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April 24, 2007 - May 16, 2007

somewhat. I was set on having the GAMI injectors based upon reports I had received. When talking to my engine builder (Allen Barrett @ BPA) he educated me about the differences between Continental and Lycoming. Basically the Continental induction system is not as efficient and benefits MORE from the GAMI's than the Lyc's do. Additionally, if you want to get that last measure of performance out of your engine, Don River @ AFP has a wealth of information and a service to swap/tune injectors for his fuel injection system. So If you've got a Lycoming the benefits of the GAMI's will not be as large. If you've got a Lycoming AND AFP injection you're in good luck. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ linn Walters wrote: > OK, go ahead and embarrass me!!! The reason I left that info out .... > I've forgotten the particulars. Search the archives. The post was > from a fellow that bought GAMIs and had problems ..... they sent out > injectors over and over again .... and they never worked right. If I > remember correctly, the whole GAMI injector needs to be removed and > replaced .... not easy on a hot engine. He finally gave up on GAMIs > and got his money back. The 'experimental' injector has a replaceable > insert with different size orifices and was easily swapped out. > Problem was .... they didn't work perfectly either. The problem was > already either a lean or rich condition and they were trying to go in > the same direction with the replacement injectors. maybe someone else > will come up with the specifics. Sorry I can't remember more than > that ..... or which list it was on!!! > Linn > * > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-7 engine/prop options
Date: Apr 24, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Might that be because they sell Lycoming? And have a vested interest in the consumer to keep buying the cool aid? Dan "GRIN" -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Dowling Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 9:13 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-7 engine/prop options This came directly from Van's during Sun n Fun What engines to put in your rv 1. Lycoming 2. Lycoming clones ....... second to last. Auto conversions last. Rubber bands. Shemp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Sletten" <marknlisa(at)hometel.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 7:35 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-7 engine/prop options > > gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com said: > > Stay way from Alternative Engines, a Lycoming will end up being > lighter, faster, cheaper, quicker/easier to build, less maintenance > and fiddling in the long run. > > > Is that authoritative, expert advice... or just one man's opinion? > > One person may satisfy himself the above statement is true, while another > may find just the opposite. > > Blanket declarations like this are almost always found to be lacking when > a > few intelligent questions are asked... > > > Mark > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-7 engine/prop options
Date: Apr 24, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Well I would also want to see a Lycoming FWF weighing that, and creating that much HP? Dan -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 10:29 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-7 engine/prop options > Stay way from Alternative Engines, a Lycoming will end up being > lighter, faster, cheaper, quicker/easier to build, less maintenance > and fiddling in the long run. > >Is that authoritative, expert advice... or just one man's opinion? OK, I'll bite. For you alternative engine experts on the list, why is an alternative engine lighter, faster, cheaper, quicker/easier to build and less maintenance? I personally fly a Lycoming, but would be interested in a 220 HP, 250 lb fully aerobatic (+10,-10 G) alternative engine with a constant speed prop and inverted oil system (inverted cooling system?). Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Oil Temperature High
Date: Apr 24, 2007
The squat plenum may well be causing some turbulence and reducing airflow. The sides of the plenum shouldn't diverge more than 19 degrees, if I remember the figure correctly, to keep the airflow attached. Pay attention to the exit side also. If there are obstructions, it can reduce airflow. We've got a firewall mounted Niagara with 3 inch scat (one 90 degree bend) on our 6-a, O-320. It has a long plenum and is fine for winter and spring (185-195), but doesn't do well enough in summer (220+). We're thinking seriously about moving it to the baffle. In the meantime, 750 hrs worth of it, we change the oil at 25 hrs, tach. Pax, Ed Holyoke -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Francis Malczynski Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 3:13 AM Subject: RV-List: Oil Temperature High My friend is test flying an RV6 fuel injected 0320. At 75% power runs ie: engine break-in, he is seeing oil temperatures in the 210 - 220- range. This is with an OAT of 34 degrees. He has a firewall mounted oil cooler and used the van's kit for installation, which utilizes a 3" scat duct. His feeling is that this is not enough airflow through the cooler and because the cooler plenum (shroud) is so squat that not enough air is being distributed across the entire face off the oil cooler. Any thoughts on this.Thanks Fran Malczynski RV6 - N594EF Olcott, NY ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 2007
From: Bob <panamared5(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: RV-7 engine/prop options
At 09:14 AM 4/24/07, n801bh(at)netzero.com wrote: >A 220 hp engine that's dependable and weighs 250 lbs total. I am >also looking to by the Brooklyn Bridge too. :-).......... Last week I saw a IO 360 Mattituck Superior clone with 10:1 pistons (not an angle valved engine), cold air induction, front facing sump (ram air), 4 tuned exhaust pipes, polished intake ports, inverted oil system. Empty weight around 285-290, rated HP 215-220. Super looking engine. Now I don't know if you call a Lycoming clone dependable, but the HP to weight of this engine is pretty good for aviation or alternative engines. It doesn't meet the 250 pound goal, but it is not that far off. This will give the automotive guys something to work for. NOTE: This debate started with Lycoming is the best, no it isn't, yes it is. Then we talked about the automotive engines are better if you consider................., yes it is, no it isn't, yes it is. So I decided to determine what is best for me: 220 HP, 250 pounds and + or - 10G and a reasonable TBO. The engine that comes the closest, goes in my next plane! Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "McFarland, Randy" <Randy.McFarland(at)novellus.com>
Subject: Orndorff videos for sale
Date: Apr 24, 2007
Invaluable to me during my 7A construction!! Empenage 6/8 2 tape set Wings 8 2 tape set Finish Kit 8 Aircraft Systems 2 tape set Aircraft Tools Original cost was $175 All for $120 plus shipping Contact me off list for interest / questions. Randy 408 427 5254 / randy.mcfarland(at)novellus.com Orndorff videos for sale
Invaluable to me during my 7A construction!!

Empenage 6/8 2 tape set
Wings 8 2 tape set
Finish Kit 8
Aircraft Systems 2 tape set
Aircraft Tools
Original cost was $175

All for $120 plus shipping

Contact me off list for interest / questions.
Randy
408 427 5254 / randy.mcfarland(at)novellus.com

________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: User Fees and Patriotism
From: "N395V" <n395v(at)hughes.net>
Date: Apr 24, 2007
> If you're not talking about how young I look Your photo lookslike late 30s or early 40s certainly not 53. -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Some people live an entire lifetime and wonder if they have made a difference to the world, but the Marines dont have that problem. - Ronald Reagan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109025#109025 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Oil Temperature High
Date: Apr 24, 2007
I had high temperatures on my O-320 RV6 initially and eventually solved the problem, primarily through more airflow. I agree that 210-220 is high with a 34F OAT (presumably at the surface level), even for a new engine. In the past, Vans has indicated that a 3" scat tube is very marginal for feeding a firewall mounted cooler on an RV-6. That's only a cross section of 6 or 7 square inches. A 4" SCAT tube would have almost double the cross section and have less flow loss from surface friction. My recommendation is to increase the size of the SCAT tube... KB ----- Original Message ----- From: Francis Malczynski To: RV-List Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 6:13 AM Subject: RV-List: Oil Temperature High My friend is test flying an RV6 fuel injected 0320. At 75% power runs ie: engine break-in, he is seeing oil temperatures in the 210 ' 220- range. This is with an OAT of 34 degrees. He has a firewall mounted oil cooler and used the van=92s kit for installation, which utilizes a 3=94 scat duct. His feeling is that this is not enough airflow through the cooler and because the cooler plenum (shroud) is so squat that not enough air is being distributed across the entire face off the oil cooler. Any thoughts on this=85Thanks Fran Malczynski RV6 - N594EF Olcott, NY ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Re: Oil Temperature High
Date: Apr 24, 2007
Kyle.....Good idea!!! I have a 4" Tube running to the firewall mounted cooler on my RV6-A. I have never seen an Oil Temp. above 185 and my RV is running the 0-360-A1A. Tom in Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: Kyle Boatright To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 6:38 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Temperature High I had high temperatures on my O-320 RV6 initially and eventually solved the problem, primarily through more airflow. I agree that 210-220 is high with a 34F OAT (presumably at the surface level), even for a new engine. In the past, Vans has indicated that a 3" scat tube is very marginal for feeding a firewall mounted cooler on an RV-6. That's only a cross section of 6 or 7 square inches. A 4" SCAT tube would have almost double the cross section and have less flow loss from surface friction. My recommendation is to increase the size of the SCAT tube... KB ----- Original Message ----- From: Francis Malczynski To: RV-List Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 6:13 AM Subject: RV-List: Oil Temperature High My friend is test flying an RV6 fuel injected 0320. At 75% power runs ie: engine break-in, he is seeing oil temperatures in the 210 ' 220- range. This is with an OAT of 34 degrees. He has a firewall mounted oil cooler and used the van=92s kit for installation, which utilizes a 3=94 scat duct. His feeling is that this is not enough airflow through the cooler and because the cooler plenum (shroud) is so squat that not enough air is being distributed across the entire face off the oil cooler. Any thoughts on this=85Thanks Fran Malczynski RV6 - N594EF Olcott, NY ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Bell" <carlbell(at)gforcecable.com>
Subject: RE: RV Advice, one leg flyer
Date: Apr 24, 2007
I want to thank everyone for there help on this topic, it has been invaluable. The list ("you all" is how we say it in the south) has provided me with some great information including: 1) Picture of how two amputees accomplish flying with one leg, including a castor on a shoe to dual hand brakes and a push-pull rudder, and an article about a double amputee doing it with some special hardware flying an RV4. 2) It gave me the sense that I can pick the plane I want and find a way to modify it to make it work safely. 3) A belief in a great community of builders that will readily share there experiences As an outcome I will go fly with a CFI in a tail dragger and a nose dragger and see which one works for my handicap and order a kit. I know it will be a 7, with a Lycoming type engine, so I'm almost there and can order some more tools and the tail kit. Thanks again, Carl ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sun N Fun pictures
From: "cgomez" <cgomez(at)sportplanes.tv>
Date: Apr 24, 2007
Just got back from Sun N Fun and wanted to share some pics. http://sportplanes.tv/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109106#109106 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 25, 2007
Subject: Re: Can't remember who or find in archives
In a message dated 4/24/2007 8:45:20 PM Central Daylight Time, dcr(at)fdltownhomes.com writes: Question to whoever posted this: Did it work and if it did, how long were the bolts. _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=4964_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=4964) This was more for preventing the small bolts from twisting cockeyed and wearing the holes & hardware, although there are many many RVs flying with them. If using either configuration, make sure the nuts are NOT tight- the pedals should be able to freely pivot without sticking. Dragging brakes are usually from weak return springs inside the cylinders, and many have added external coil springs around the cylinder rods to add more extension force (I did) and it stopped my dragging brake problem. It is a good idea to add a flanged bushing on the bottom of the spring, with the OD of the bushing inside the spring and the flange nested on top of the cylinder to prevent the spring from scoring the rod- I used small plastic flanged bushings, probably from McMaster.com, but it's been a while... >From The PossumWorks in TN Mark Phillips RV-6A "Mojo" 400+ hrs _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/) (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 25, 2007
Subject: Re: Oil Temperature High
In a message dated 4/24/2007 6:16:14 AM Central Daylight Time, ebbfmm(at)verizon.net writes: His feeling is that this is not enough airflow through the cooler and becaus e the cooler plenum (shroud) is so squat that not enough air is being distributed across the entire face off the oil cooler. Any thoughts on this _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5000_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5000) This arrangement has worked well on my 150hp E3D for over 400 hours. Click >>Next Entry>> at top of page for more entries, and click on foto for bigger look... >From The PossumWorks in TN, Mark RV-6A "Mojo" ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 2007
From: Richard Seiders <seiders(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Can't remember who or find in archives
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Lightspeed electronic ignition
Date: Apr 26, 2007
I was reading the instructions in the timing manual and they mentioned the timing at idle should be at 40 btdc with manifold pressure input and 20 without. I used an automotive timing light, however I think mine has a potentiometer, which your not supposed to use. Anyway, I found my timing to be about 30btdc at idle using the gun but my lightspeed provided display showed the correct 40 degrees. Now Im wondering, do I even have to use the timing light since I purchased the optional display which shows me the timing? I also thought it would fire closer to 25 btdc at idle and advance with rpm. I was surprised to see it firing so early. I did a typical mag check at 1700 and got about 150 drop in my mag and almost no drop in the electronic. Its running very smoothly. However, at low power settings and just one mag, it backfired and ran a bit rough. Does that sound normal? I checked the mag timing and its right on. New plugs. Shemp/Jeff Dowling RV-6A, N915JD 300+ hours Chicago ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe & Jan Connell" <jconnell(at)rconnect.com>
Subject: Engine wiring anchor points
Date: Apr 26, 2007
Guys, I'm in the process of routing wires to the starter, alternator, CHT, and EGT probes. Is anyone using the induction tubes from the sump for a clamp and standoff for the wires? Also, how about using the sump-to-crankcase attach bolts for cable clamp attachments? Thanks... Joe Connell RV-9A and O-320 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Engine wiring anchor points
Date: Apr 26, 2007
I fabricated a clamp arrangement on the induction tube for the alternator wire. I found a large rubber sleeve about 2 in long; about a 1/4 in wall thickness and with stainless steel clamps at Home Depot. The rubber sleeve was slit open from end to end and then trimmed so that the new ID fit the OD of the induction tube. A hole was drilled in a SS screw clamp to allow for a pan head screw that would become the mounting screw for a cushioned clamp which holds the alt. wire. The SS screw clamp is around the rubber sleeve on the induction tube. Now have 150 hours and it has worked well. Note: The CHT and EGT wires need to be at least 2 inches from any high current wires. The voltage in these wire is so small that the magnetic field around the high current wire, such as the alternator wire, will produce very erratic readings. Dale Ensing ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe & Jan Connell To: RV-List Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 2:51 PM Subject: RV-List: Engine wiring anchor points Guys, I'm in the process of routing wires to the starter, alternator, CHT, and EGT probes. Is anyone using the induction tubes from the sump for a clamp and standoff for the wires? Also, how about using the sump-to-crankcase attach bolts for cable clamp attachments? Thanks... Joe Connell RV-9A and O-320 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 26, 2007
Subject: Re: Engine wiring anchor points
In a message dated 4/26/2007 1:54:25 PM Central Daylight Time, jconnell(at)rconnect.com writes: Is anyone using the induction tubes from the sump for a clamp and standoff for the wires? Also, how about using the sump-to-crankcase attach bolts for cable clamp attachments? I used the induction tubes on my plane for attaching CHT/EGT cables- large black ty-rap around the rubber tube-to-sump hose with a small ty-rap between it and the cables with no signs of degradation or loosening- I "believe" the black ones are preferable in the engine environment to the natural nylon. They are touted as "weatherable" and "weather" this means UV resistant or what, I'm not sure, but they have worked well for me. It is standard practice to use sump bolts as attach points for adel (cushion) clamps... Mark RV-6A "Mojo" 400+ hrs... ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 2007
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Pitot tube cover
Folks, I have a 10" L-shaped Gretz heated pitot/static tube and am looking for a cover for it. The ones that I have found to be commercially available are all too short. Any ideas? Ralph Capen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Porter" <december29(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Pitot tube cover
Date: Apr 27, 2007
Ralph, I used one from Spruce that is specified for Falcon jets as I remember. It looks like a black rubber cap that fits over the tip of the tube with a remove before flight banner attached. The other collection of are all too short as you've found out ( I have two "extras", ha, ha) Good hunting, John 80002 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 10:20 AM Subject: RV-List: Pitot tube cover > > Folks, > > I have a 10" L-shaped Gretz heated pitot/static tube and am looking for a > cover for it. > > The ones that I have found to be commercially available are all too short. > > Any ideas? > > Ralph Capen > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 2007
Subject: [Fwd: 12v supply to stabilize avionics]
From: "bob mackey" <n103md(at)yahoo.com>
I am purchasing a 12V power supply that takes 6-24V input and gives 12V out at up to 14 A continuous. It's a 95% efficient switcher with a quiescent current around 10mA. We need to buy ten of them to get a better price (about $55). Why do I want one? Why might you want one? I have a 1-battery airplane and don't want to rewire the whole thing. The GPS and radios reboot if they are on when I start the engine. During cranking, the bus voltage drops to around 10 V, and the avionics brown out. I want that problem to go away, and also want to keep the radio working for a while if the alternator shuts down and the battery drains below 10V. So, the solution I am trying is a switching power supply that converts anything between 6 and 24 V in to a stabilized 12V out. with 95% efficiency, the lost power is minimal. We would like to buy 10 units for about $55 each (+ s/h). We've accounted for four units, so there will be six more available. Who wants one? -bob mackey n103md -at- yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: 12v supply to stabilize avionics]
Date: Apr 27, 2007
> I have a 1-battery airplane and don't want to rewire the > whole thing. The GPS and radios reboot if they are on when > I start the engine. During cranking, the bus voltage drops > to around 10 V, and the avionics brown out. Leave avionics off while starting the plane. Cost...ZERO. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jbker(at)juno.com" <jbker(at)juno.com>
Date: Apr 27, 2007
Subject: Advertisement: 6A or 9A cowling for sale
Sorry about ad, but I recently purchased a cowl for 0-320 updraft carb f or my conversion rotary to lyc for the 9A. It will fit 6A or 9A. Fixed p itch (with 2.25 inch spacer) or constant speed props. Decided to do Jame s cowl again like I had on my 6A. Van's price is $1100 and I will sell for $1000. Will deliver free SE USA . You pay freight anywhere else. I have Van's shipping box to ship it in . 9A rotary converting to Lyc to sell. Waiting 12, no medical Bernie Kerr 772 708 0093 jbker(at)juno.com
Sorry about ad, but I recently purchased a cowl for 0-320 updra ft carb for my conversion rotary to lyc for the 9A. It will fit 6A or 9A . Fixed pitch (with 2.25 inch spacer) or constant speed props. Decided t o do James cowl again like I had on my 6A.

Van's price is $1100 and I will sell for $1000. Will deliver free SE USA. You pay freight anywhere else. I have Van's shipping box to ship it in.

9A rotary converting to Lyc to sell. Waiting 12, no medical
Bernie Kerr 772 708 0093 j bker(at)juno.com

________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Ross" <dcr(at)fdltownhomes.com>
Subject: good news
Date: Apr 27, 2007
Guys: N65XX flew today in Reno. 2.1 hours with no problems noted. I am looking forward to the next 38 in the test area, and the next 1000 hours of pure fun. Dan. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dick martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com>
Subject: Re: Govenor oil leak
Date: Apr 27, 2007
Try Radiator Specialty "Tite Seal Medium" gasket sealant. Available @ Wicks and others Etc. Dick Martin RV8 N233M the fast one ----- Original Message ----- From: RSamuelson(at)aol.com To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 7:26 PM Subject: RV-List: Govenor oil leak I have a new O-360 and the Jihostroj prop governor. I have a persistent oil leak that appears to be coming from the gasket between the governor and the engine. I changed the gasket once and my mechanic changed it a second time. The leak seems to be at the top of the joint and oil dribbles on down various hoses and wires and exits at the lower cowl. Anyone else have the problem? Roy Samuelson RV7A at Oakland CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See what's free at AOL.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2007
From: Glen Matejcek <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Govenor oil leak
Hi Roy- > I have a new O-360 and the Jihostroj prop governor. I have a >persistent oil leak that appears to be coming from the gasket between >the governor and the engine. > Anyone else have the problem? Quite a few. There is a thread on this in the archives, but some of the lycs have an issue with blowing that gasket and dumping all the oil overboard. The solution seems to be 2 gaskets with a metal plate sandwiched between. Check the list of applicable engines.... Glen Matejcek ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Flamini, Dennis, Fran" <flamini2(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Govenor oil leak
Date: Apr 28, 2007
Check for a hairline crack at the hose fitting, i had it on an 0-360 due to overtightening of the tapered pipe thread. Dennis in Chicago ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "don wentz" <dasduck(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Clocking the prop. Real world data
Date: Apr 28, 2007
Randy, I have a wood prop that can clock in any position on the studs. i also have the newer extension that Van's sells, that offsets the studs halfway between the crank bosses, and access to a std extension in-line with the crank bosses. Since I'll need to balance my new prop/spinner anyway, and the wood prop is easy to take on/off, we could play with that. Might even be able to borrow an aluminum Sensenich to get the feel of a heavier prop. O-360 with FI and one Emag. note that Mike's testing was done 'in flight', versus ours which would be 'static' on the ground. don _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Lervold Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:06 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Clocking the prop. Real world data Wow Mike, great info!!! I've long been curious about prop clocking but there are some obstacles to just trying it as you ran into with the crank flange bosses. Of course you're working on a 6-cylinder where most of us are flying 4-cylinders. Anyone out there want to do some prop clocking experimentation with an O-360? If anyone in the Northwest wants to try some clocking experimentation I can assist with the measurement. Our EAA chapter has a DSS Micro MicroVibe II balancer.... HYPERLINK "http://www.eaa105.org/Programs/programs.htm#PropBalancing"http://www.eaa 105 .org/Programs/programs.htm#PropBalancing Best, Randy Lervold ----- Original Message ----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:mike.stewart(at)us.ibm.com"Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) "mailto:rocket-list(at)matronics.com"rocket-list(at)matronics.com ; HYPERLINK "mailto:rv-list(at)matronics.com"rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 6:51 AM Subject: RV-List: Clocking the prop. Real world data After weeks of trial and error, I have finally reached a point where I can safely say that clocking the prop doesn=92t just make a difference, it makes ALL the difference. Several weeks ago I set out on a mission to run to ground a vibration in my RV-8. An IO-540 C4B5 with a Hartzell 2 blade prop. There has been a vibration that I would characterize as objectionable. Common on big engine Rockets and RV=92s. The lower the RPM, the more objectionable it was. I was able to instrument the plane and do some real tests and get real results with real data. The net of it is that by changing the prop clocking, I was able to improve my vibration by 83%. And no Im not kidding. You can read all the details here. HYPERLINK "http://www2.mstewart.net:8080/super8/index.htm"http://www2.mstewart.net: 808 0/super8/index.htm I captured a lot of data. I sure hope others find it useful. I have a new plane as a result. Best, Mike href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"http://www.matronics.com/Navi gat or?RV-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com 1:39 PM 1:39 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2007
From: Bob Snedaker <imfairings(at)cox.net>
Subject: Looking for Robby Knox
I'm looking for Robby Knox from Ricon, GA. I have his address as 107 Paddleford Drive in Rincon. His phone number as 912-429-5761, his email at rknox(at)alltel.net He received from me a large order in February for fairings for an -8 and a -10. The fairings weren't returned nor were the invoices. I need to talk to him about how he is going to pay me. If you know him tell him to shoot me an email or give me a call. Thanks -- Sincerely, Bob Snedaker Fairings-Etc PO Box 5488 Goodyear, AZ 85338 623 203 9795 bob@fairings-etc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael D. Cencula" <matronics(at)cencula.com>
Subject: Main spar flange bend angle problem
Date: Apr 28, 2007
RV-ers, I'm trying to figure out what to do about a problem with my main spar flanges. The problem is detailed at: http://www.our7a.com/20070426.html http://www.our7a.com/20070428.html Essentially, I think I need to tweak the bend angle of the main spar flanges in some locations. The problem is that the material is THICK and I've already riveted on my main ribs, so how can I tweak this angle? I suppose I could remove all the main ribs. It wouldn't be terrible since they're only attached to the main spar at this point, but I'd prefer to avoid that hassle if possible. Any thoughts on how to tweak that spar flange? Seaming pliers seems like a rough way to go. Also, does anyone know what this angle is supposed to actually be? Thanks, Mike Cencula ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2007
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Looking for Robby Knox
Good Luck...! He bought a rivet gun from me on VAF a few months back and stated to me the check was in the mail. Well... the check never came. I was just glad I had a gut feeling about this guy and hadn't shipped it yet. Darrell --- Bob Snedaker wrote: > > > I'm looking for Robby Knox from Ricon, GA. I have > his address as 107 Paddleford Drive in Rincon. His > phone number as 912-429-5761, his email at > rknox(at)alltel.net > > He received from me a large order in February for > fairings for an -8 and a -10. The fairings weren't > returned nor were the invoices. I need to talk to > him about how he is going to pay me. > > If you know him tell him to shoot me an email or > give me a call. > > Thanks > -- > Sincerely, > Bob Snedaker > Fairings-Etc > PO Box 5488 > Goodyear, AZ 85338 > 623 203 9795 > bob@fairings-etc.com > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > Web Forums! > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: Amount of smooth prime to do job
Date: Apr 28, 2007
Hi all, I have researched the archives about sealing up / priming my cowl for my RV-6. As expensive as this stuff is, I am wondering if a quart would be enough. The ACS website says 3 gallons to do a plastic airplane but all I need to do is the cowl and maybe some fairings. Will a quart do it? Tim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Amount of smooth prime to do job
Date: Apr 28, 2007
Tim, I tried Van's "thinned epoxy" coatings, but the 24 hour wait before sanding can make this a loooong process; however, it works and it's inexpensive. After three coats of the thinned epoxy, I became impatient and switched to a primer/filler product by PPG that can be sprayed or brushed on. Attached are a few pictures of the product and the results. I have no experience with the smooth prime product. Bill RV-7 FWF Lee's Summit, MO -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 5:03 PM Subject: RV-List: Amount of smooth prime to do job Hi all, I have researched the archives about sealing up / priming my cowl for my RV-6. As expensive as this stuff is, I am wondering if a quart would be enough. The ACS website says 3 gallons to do a plastic airplane but all I need to do is the cowl and maybe some fairings. Will a quart do it? Tim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "wskimike" <wskimike(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: Main spar flange bend angle problem
Date: Apr 28, 2007
Use a shim rather than trying to bend the rib because you may crack it. It would be better to shim it and don't even think about bending the wing spar. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D. Cencula" <matronics(at)cencula.com> Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:39 PM Subject: RV-List: Main spar flange bend angle problem > > > RV-ers, > > I'm trying to figure out what to do about a problem with my main spar > flanges. > The problem is detailed at: > > http://www.our7a.com/20070426.html > http://www.our7a.com/20070428.html > > Essentially, I think I need to tweak the bend angle of the main spar > flanges > in some locations. > > The problem is that the material is THICK and I've already riveted on my > main > ribs, so how can I tweak this angle? > > I suppose I could remove all the main ribs. It wouldn't be terrible since > they're only attached to the main spar at this point, but I'd prefer to > avoid > that hassle if possible. > > Any thoughts on how to tweak that spar flange? Seaming pliers seems like > a > rough way to go. > > Also, does anyone know what this angle is supposed to actually be? > > Thanks, > > Mike Cencula > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Amount of smooth prime to do job
Date: Apr 28, 2007
A quart worked just fine for me and I was pleased with the results. However, some folks in the Canard community have bad things to say about the product. Some have seen bubbling that they attribute to smooth prime. The theory is that the smooth prime holds moisture and the moisture causes bubbling under the finish coat. I think the current institutional knowledge with the canard guys and gals is to make sure you give smooth prime much more drying time than the instructions call for, and to make sure you store the parts in a dry (not humid) environment before painting. KB ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Bryan To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 6:03 PM Subject: RV-List: Amount of smooth prime to do job Hi all, I have researched the archives about sealing up / priming my cowl for my RV-6. As expensive as this stuff is, I am wondering if a quart would be enough. The ACS website says 3 gallons to do a plastic airplane but all I need to do is the cowl and maybe some fairings. Will a quart do it? Tim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2007
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Main spar flange bend angle problem
Michael D. Cencula wrote: > > RV-ers, > > I'm trying to figure out what to do about a problem with my main spar flanges. > The problem is detailed at: > > http://www.our7a.com/20070426.html > http://www.our7a.com/20070428.html > > Essentially, I think I need to tweak the bend angle of the main spar flanges > in some locations. > > The problem is that the material is THICK and I've already riveted on my main > ribs, so how can I tweak this angle? > > I suppose I could remove all the main ribs. It wouldn't be terrible since > they're only attached to the main spar at this point, but I'd prefer to avoid > that hassle if possible. > > Any thoughts on how to tweak that spar flange? Seaming pliers seems like a > rough way to go. > > Also, does anyone know what this angle is supposed to actually be? > > Thanks, > > Mike Cencula Hi Mike, If the flanges really are bent too much or not enough, you might be able to pull the flange down with a bar-clamp (like you'd use in cabinet making) and some big stiff angle to spread the load along the spar flange. Having said that: What does it look like if you cleco on the nose rib & wrap a strip of AL over the rib & spar flange? If that lines up and looks ok, read on. IIRC, my spar flanges weren't exactly square to the web (but I think they were consistent in their bends). The problem I *did* have, that caused some of the main rib/main spar joints to look just like yours, was a few bad ribs. After fighting the same gap between the spar flange & rib flange I see in yours, I noticed that that the other pair of flanges (top vs. bottom on the same rib) was too tight. Closer inspection revealed that the tooling holes in the problem ribs were distorted as if they had been dimpled off-center. The rib blanks had shifted in the punch press, causing all the holes to be punched offset by a fraction of an inch. The ribs' web flange holes being offset caused the rib to sit too high (or low, don't remember which) in relation to the spar. Further evidence was that the prepunched holes on the rib's top flange were a different distance from the edge from the holes on the bottom flange. All these holes get punched before the rib's flanges are bent. A call to Van's tech help got the standard 'it's your fault; you're doing something wrong', followed by asking for proof (I supplied it), followed by the ubiquitous 'we've never seen this before', followed by 'we'll send you new parts & if the old one really is defective when you return it, we won't charge you for the new one'. They didn't charge me for the new one. I don't know if it's relevant to your problem, but it really does look like what I saw with mine. Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2007
From: Brian Cross <bcross2160(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Wind Root Fairings - Nutplates
Hi Folks I was working on my wing root gap fairings on my 8 today. Where the fairing is screwed onto the top & bottom wing skin, the plans on Dwg. 43 call for a K1000-08 nutplate & to machine countersink the skins. In the wing tank area where the gap seals are attached to the tank skins, the plans call for K11000-08 nut plates. This would of course call for dimpling the skins to accept the AN509-8R8 screws, ( the same screw called out for the K1000-08 nutplates). This does not seem right to me as the countersink depth from the top of the screw to the end of the taper on the screw is about 0.080". This means that if you machine countersink the skins which total about 0.050" in thickness, the holes are going to be huge all the way through both skins, ( the holes will largest of course at the outer skins & the inner skin will have a smaller but still a significant size). It seems to me that all of these areas should be dimpled due to the thinness of the total material. The documentation indicates for the tank area, the skins be dimpled first & then if required, machine countersink to complete it if the necessary dimple depth cannot be attained. To add further confusion, I looked at my preview plans with the last update of July 1998, all of these areas were specified to have K1100-08 nutplates which as mentioned, to me that makes total sense. I am obviously missing something here & would really appreciate any help on this. Maybe I am being too fussy but I don't want to mess up my wing skins at this stage of the game. Thanks so much. Brian Cross #81844 RV-8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Looking for Robby Knox
Date: Apr 29, 2007
He frequents the VAF WWW forums. You might try posting a message in the General Discussion section over there. http://www.vansairforce.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=2 Kevin On 28 Apr 2007, at 14:54, Darrell Reiley wrote: > > > Good Luck...! > > He bought a rivet gun from me on VAF a few months back > and stated to me the check was in the mail. Well... > the check never came. I was just glad I had a gut > feeling about this guy and hadn't shipped it yet. > > Darrell > > > --- Bob Snedaker wrote: > >> >> >> I'm looking for Robby Knox from Ricon, GA. I have >> his address as 107 Paddleford Drive in Rincon. His >> phone number as 912-429-5761, his email at >> rknox(at)alltel.net >> >> He received from me a large order in February for >> fairings for an -8 and a -10. The fairings weren't >> returned nor were the invoices. I need to talk to >> him about how he is going to pay me. >> >> If you know him tell him to shoot me an email or >> give me a call. >> >> Thanks >> -- >> Sincerely, >> Bob Snedaker >> Fairings-Etc >> PO Box 5488 >> Goodyear, AZ 85338 >> 623 203 9795 >> bob@fairings-etc.com >> >> >> browse >> Subscriptions page, >> FAQ, >> >> Web Forums! >> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2007
From: Bob Snedaker <imfairings(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Looking for Robby Knox
Thanks Kevin...I'll try that. Bob Snedaker Fairings-Etc ---- Kevin Horton wrote: > > He frequents the VAF WWW forums. You might try posting a message in > the General Discussion section over there. > > http://www.vansairforce.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=2 > > Kevin > > > On 28 Apr 2007, at 14:54, Darrell Reiley wrote: > > > > > > > Good Luck...! > > > > He bought a rivet gun from me on VAF a few months back > > and stated to me the check was in the mail. Well... > > the check never came. I was just glad I had a gut > > feeling about this guy and hadn't shipped it yet. > > > > Darrell > > > > > > --- Bob Snedaker wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> I'm looking for Robby Knox from Ricon, GA. I have > >> his address as 107 Paddleford Drive in Rincon. His > >> phone number as 912-429-5761, his email at > >> rknox(at)alltel.net > >> > >> He received from me a large order in February for > >> fairings for an -8 and a -10. The fairings weren't > >> returned nor were the invoices. I need to talk to > >> him about how he is going to pay me. > >> > >> If you know him tell him to shoot me an email or > >> give me a call. > >> > >> Thanks > >> -- > >> Sincerely, > >> Bob Snedaker > >> Fairings-Etc > >> PO Box 5488 > >> Goodyear, AZ 85338 > >> 623 203 9795 > >> bob@fairings-etc.com > >> > >> > >> browse > >> Subscriptions page, > >> FAQ, > >> > >> Web Forums! > >> > >> > > > > > -- Sincerely, Bob Snedaker Fairings-Etc PO Box 5488 Goodyear, AZ 85338 623 203 9795 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2007
From: <flyingrv(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Looking for Robby Knox
Thanks for letting me know your experience with this guy. Bob Snedaker ---- Darrell Reiley wrote: > > Good Luck...! > > He bought a rivet gun from me on VAF a few months back > and stated to me the check was in the mail. Well... > the check never came. I was just glad I had a gut > feeling about this guy and hadn't shipped it yet. > > Darrell > > > --- Bob Snedaker wrote: > > > > > > > I'm looking for Robby Knox from Ricon, GA. I have > > his address as 107 Paddleford Drive in Rincon. His > > phone number as 912-429-5761, his email at > > rknox(at)alltel.net > > > > He received from me a large order in February for > > fairings for an -8 and a -10. The fairings weren't > > returned nor were the invoices. I need to talk to > > him about how he is going to pay me. > > > > If you know him tell him to shoot me an email or > > give me a call. > > > > Thanks > > -- > > Sincerely, > > Bob Snedaker > > Fairings-Etc > > PO Box 5488 > > Goodyear, AZ 85338 > > 623 203 9795 > > bob@fairings-etc.com > > > > > > browse > > Subscriptions page, > > FAQ, > > > > Web Forums! > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > -- Sincerely, Bob Snedaker Fairings-Etc PO Box 5488 Goodyear, AZ 85338 623 203 9795 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Smitty" <smitty(at)smittysrv.com>
Subject: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A
Date: Apr 29, 2007
Yesterday, I got an unexpected demo ride in a Diamond DA 40 aircraft (with all the bells and whistles) at our EAA fish fry. It had a free castering nose wheel "kind of like" the RV-7A/9A. As we were taxiing out to the runway. I was practically pushing the rudder pedals to floor to get the aircraft to respond to small adjustments in straight taxiing and then had to apply the right brake to get to turn onto the taxiway. As you Cessna 172 drivers know, this isn't so on the C172. When we got into the takeoff roll, I felt like student pilot again as we waddled down the runway, swinging the butt of the airplane from side to side, trying to maintain center line. A humbling experience, needlessly to say. Having never taken off in a RV-7A or 9A, my question is, how does the RV respond to rudder application as compared to a C172? Thanks guys! Smitty http://SmittysRV.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RAS" <deruiteraircraftservices(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A
Date: Apr 29, 2007
Hi, it's easier if you look a loooong way ahead of your airplane, instead of only a couple of yards, trying to keep the nose on the yellow line. ----- Original Message ----- From: Smitty To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 12:55 PM Subject: RV-List: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A Yesterday, I got an unexpected demo ride in a Diamond DA 40 aircraft (with all the bells and whistles) at our EAA fish fry. It had a free castering nose wheel "kind of like" the RV-7A/9A. As we were taxiing out to the runway. I was practically pushing the rudder pedals to floor to get the aircraft to respond to small adjustments in straight taxiing and then had to apply the right brake to get to turn onto the taxiway. As you Cessna 172 drivers know, this isn't so on the C172. When we got into the takeoff roll, I felt like student pilot again as we waddled down the runway, swinging the butt of the airplane from side to side, trying to maintain center line. A humbling experience, needlessly to say. Having never taken off in a RV-7A or 9A, my question is, how does the RV respond to rudder application as compared to a C172? Thanks guys! Smitty http://SmittysRV.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A
Date: Apr 29, 2007
Having never taken off in a RV-7A or 9A, my question is, how does the RV respond to rudder application as compared to a C172? It is not an issue. At very low speeds you may hve to use the brake but get a reasonable taxi speed and you are fine. It also helps to not over correct. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2007
From: "Rob Prior" <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A
On 4:55 2007-04-29 "Smitty" wrote: > Having never taken off in a RV-7A or 9A, my question is, how does the > RV respond to rudder application as compared to a C172? Don't be too concerned about it. The problem is that the feedback loop on the RV (or the Diamond) is different than on the 172, and your brain is calibrated for the 172. You will re-calibrate once you start flying RV's more frequently. More time in the Diamond might help you get used to the free-castering nosewheel, which is definitely part of that feedback loop. I did the exact same thing yesterday while doing a formation takeoff with a Globe Swift while flying a friend's RV-9A. As soon as we released the brakes, the -9A decided to go hunt rabbits. I managed to bring it back in line, but there was a lot of butt-weaving to get there. This is after spending the winter flying a Cessna 150... :P -Rob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RSamuelson(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 29, 2007
Subject: Governor Oil Leak - update
Many thanks for all the suggestions. I emailed Jihostroj (maker) who said they stopped making this model in 2003 and wanted to see pictures of the oil leak. MT Propellor (distributor) suggested using 2 gaskets. No metal plate is needed on this governor-engine combination. I ended up replacing the gasket (p/n MS914401, available at Spruce and Aviall). This time I painted Perfect Seal gasket sealant on both sides of the gasket and torqued to about 125 inch pounds. After about a hour of touch and goes, it remains leak free. I sprayed dye penetrant developer on the governor and engine to help detect the leak. Spraying through a short piece of pipe helped to limit overspray. Roy Samuelson ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2007
Subject: 12v supply to stabilize avionics
From: "bob mackey" <n103md(at)yahoo.com>
Several asked for specs, so here they are... As Bob Nuchols surmised, this is lighter weight than a second battery -- 0.1 lbs plus wiring. It uses an Linear LTC3780. http://www.linear.com/pc/productDetail.jsp?navId=H0,C1,C1003,C1042,C1116,P10090 The spec sheet for the 12V supply is attached. -bob mackey ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rtitsworth" <rtitsworth(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Advanced Flight System EFIS
Date: Apr 29, 2007
I have a friend (Tom) who asked the following question (below) on a different list. Any comments/input? At present I have purchased a Garmin 430 and a yellow tagged MX-20. I would like to know if anyone is flying with or considering the Advanced Flight Systems Model AF-3500 also with engine monitoring. I was also considering the GRT Spot model since I have an MX-20 already. Any comments would be appreciated. Tom Rooney 941-907-0032 rooney1961(at)yahoo.com Fwd by Rick Titsworth rtitsworth(at)mindspring.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2007
From: "Greg Williams" <mr.gsun+rv-list(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 12v supply to stabilize avionics
Bob, Got a couple left? How much and how do I pay you? Paypal? Snail Mail? Greg On 4/29/07, bob mackey wrote: > > Several asked for specs, so here they are... > > As Bob Nuchols surmised, this is lighter weight than > a second battery -- 0.1 lbs plus wiring. > It uses an Linear LTC3780. > > http://www.linear.com/pc/productDetail.jsp?navId=H0,C1,C1003,C1042,C1116,P10090 > > The spec sheet for the 12V supply is attached. > > -bob mackey > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Looking for Robby Knox
From: "Jekyll" <rcitjh(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 29, 2007
[quote="imfairings(at)cox.net"]I'm looking for Robby Knox from Ricon, GA. I have his address as 107 Paddleford Drive in Rincon. His phone number as 912-429-5761, his email at rknox(at)alltel.net He received from me a large order in February for fairings for an -8 and a -10. The fairings weren't returned nor were the invoices. I need to talk to him about how he is going to pay me. If you know him tell him to shoot me an email or give me a call. Thanks -- Sincerely, Bob Sxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx[/quote BAD FORM! Putting a person's information on the internet for the whole world is not appropriate. I was thinking about purchasing your product but your lack of concern for protecting personal information instantly changed my mind. As a businessman, you should know of other means for contacting people other that posting their personal information on the Internet. You are free to post your data on the net but, you should never post someone else's data without their permission. I don't know Robby, so I can't vouch for his charachter. I don't know if he has defrauded you or if he has a valid reason for what's happened. Doesn't matter though, I won't trust my business to anyone that doesn't safeguard personal information. Jekyll Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109913#109913 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2007
From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Looking for Robby Knox
Oh well, your loss, I'm sure Bob will not miss your business. Bob is a pleasure to do business with. He will send you your order and then collect payment after, very trustworthy. Bob would not have posted this if there was any chance that Robby was going to send him the money that he should have. It is obvious that he is someone to avoid by the other responce from someone else that never received payment that was suppose to be in the mail. I agree with making this kind of info avaiable for all to see. If someone is not paying for items he's buying thru the internet, this might just help someone else from getting ripped off by him, This is his problem not Bob's. Thanks for letting everybody know Bob. Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm Jekyll wrote: > >[quote="imfairings(at)cox.net"]I'm looking for Robby Knox from Ricon, GA. I have his address as 107 Paddleford Drive in Rincon. His phone number as 912-429-5761, his email at rknox(at)alltel.net > >He received from me a large order in February for fairings for an -8 and a -10. The fairings weren't returned nor were the invoices. I need to talk to him about how he is going to pay me. > >If you know him tell him to shoot me an email or give me a call. > >Thanks >-- >Sincerely, >Bob Sxxxxxxx >xxxxxxxxxxxx >xxxxxxxxxxxx >xxxxxxxxxxxx[/quote > >BAD FORM! > >Putting a person's information on the internet for the whole world is not appropriate. I was thinking about purchasing your product but your lack of concern for protecting personal information instantly changed my mind. As a businessman, you should know of other means for contacting people other that posting their personal information on the Internet. You are free to post your data on the net but, you should never post someone else's data without their permission. > >I don't know Robby, so I can't vouch for his charachter. I don't know if he has defrauded you or if he has a valid reason for what's happened. Doesn't matter though, I won't trust my business to anyone that doesn't safeguard personal information. > >Jekyll > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109913#109913 > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 2007
From: "David Dalton" <ddalton536(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 12v supply to stabilize avionics
As an electrical engineer (working on consumer electronics, not on A/C systems), I would not recommend this for A/C use. I'm not sure where you come up with 14A continuous, but that amount of current would fry the package in no time at all. The spec says that the unit can take a max temp of 125 C. Lets assume that you mount this in a temp controlled environment where it sees a max of 25 C ambient. The temp rise, as specified on the data sheet is 130C/W. At 12 volts nominal voltage, if you draw 1 amp, the unit will disspate 12 W. This means that the temp rise at the part would be 12 * 130 = 1560 degrees or toast. Turning this around, if you want to keep the temp below 125 C, with an ambient temp of 25C, you can afford a temp rise of 100C. Therefore 130 C/W divided by 100 C temp rise equals 1.3Watts, which translates to roughly 100 mA of current. This part is designed for computers, embedded microprocessors (in cars maybe) or other low current applications. I don't want to rain on anyones parade, but if this were suitable for A/C systems, some would have thought of it long ago. You'd be better off spending your dollars on a small backup batter or a dual bus system. Best regards, D Dalton On 4/29/07, bob mackey wrote: > > Several asked for specs, so here they are... > > As Bob Nuchols surmised, this is lighter weight than > a second battery -- 0.1 lbs plus wiring. > It uses an Linear LTC3780. > > http://www.linear.com/pc/productDetail.jsp?navId=H0,C1,C1003,C1042,C1116,P10090 > > The spec sheet for the 12V supply is attached. > > -bob mackey > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Chamberlain" <mchamberlain(at)runbox.com>
Subject: Re: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A
Date: Apr 30, 2007
And if you really want some fun: try a takeoff in a 7 or 9 instead of the "A" and see how different that feels :-) Mark - N234C - RV-7 155 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Looking for Robby Knox
Date: Apr 30, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Get real, Name address and phone number are public information, have you ever seen a phone book? Email addresses are even less personal. Bob is an outstanding person to work with and to post something contrary is ridiculous, especially in reference to public information. In this day and age, we can find out anything about anyone, and in mere minutes. Bob did not violate anyone's trust. Now, if he had posted credit card information or SSN numbers, then I would say your comments are justified, but by posting information that is available in a phone book there is nothing lost. Dan N289DT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jekyll Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 7:51 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: Looking for Robby Knox [quote="imfairings(at)cox.net"]I'm looking for Robby Knox from Ricon, GA. I have his address as 107 Paddleford Drive in Rincon. His phone number as 912-429-5761, his email at rknox(at)alltel.net He received from me a large order in February for fairings for an -8 and a -10. The fairings weren't returned nor were the invoices. I need to talk to him about how he is going to pay me. If you know him tell him to shoot me an email or give me a call. Thanks -- Sincerely, Bob Sxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx[/quote BAD FORM! Putting a person's information on the internet for the whole world is not appropriate. I was thinking about purchasing your product but your lack of concern for protecting personal information instantly changed my mind. As a businessman, you should know of other means for contacting people other that posting their personal information on the Internet. You are free to post your data on the net but, you should never post someone else's data without their permission. I don't know Robby, so I can't vouch for his charachter. I don't know if he has defrauded you or if he has a valid reason for what's happened. Doesn't matter though, I won't trust my business to anyone that doesn't safeguard personal information. Jekyll Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109913#109913 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 2007
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A
kitfoxmike wrote: My advice is to get out on that runway and ram the > throttle and pull back on the stick(actualy pull the stick then hit > the throttle) and get that nose off the runway as soon as it will get > up, this one might suprise you on how quick things will happen, then > as soon as the main depart the runway, push forward on the stick to > stay in ground effect, as soon as the speeds are correct pull back > and fly away. I suspect this will happen very quickly in an RV. Wow! I have to wonder how many low-time RV pilots could use that technique without dragging the rudder on the runway followed by slamming the nose wheel back down, followed by......I'm not sure what. :-) The elevator on an RV has a *lot* of authority and takeoff is not a good time to be sawing on the stick. This thread was begun by someone stating their concern about being able to hold an RV-A on the centerline during the takeoff run. This task will be more or less mastered very early in transition training and there will be no need for manhandling the control stick during takeoffs. Just smoothly apply power, a *little* back stick to lighten the load on the nose gear and give the wings a slightly positive angle of attack, then off you go with little further control input as the wings decide it is time to fly and the plane transitions into climb. Takeoff will occur in about the same amount of time it took to read the previous sentence. :-) Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A
Date: Apr 30, 2007
I agree with Sam on the techniques, but let me add a small tip. I have close to 3,500 takeoffs in my RV-6A, and have coached a hundred or so on takeoffs. What has worked for me is to tell them to use the brakes to steer until aligned with the runway. Then, as power is advanced, slide your feet down off the brakes and only use the rudder to steer during the take off roll. The RV accelerates so fast that steering will be available almost immediately. Second I tell them not to anticipate the rudder input. Wait and react to any yawing that occurs. Again, the RV has such a powerful rudder that you tend to over correct at first if you don't slow them down. Not to worry, everyone "gets it" very quickly. Now pitch control after lift off is another story...... That takes some practice. Denis Walsh On Apr 30, 2007, at 07:51 318890004, Sam Buchanan wrote: > > The elevator on an RV has a *lot* of authority and takeoff is not a > good time to be sawing on the stick. This thread was begun by > someone stating their concern about being able to hold an RV-A on > the centerline during the takeoff run. This task will be more or > less mastered very early in transition training and there will be > no need for manhandling the control stick during takeoffs. Just > smoothly apply power, a *little* back stick to lighten the load on > the nose gear and give the wings a slightly positive angle of > attack, then off you go with little further control input as the > wings decide it is time to fly and the plane transitions into > climb. Takeoff will occur in about the same amount of time it took > to read the previous sentence. :-) > > Sam Buchanan > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A
Date: Apr 30, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
I am one of the low time pilots and just completed transition training with Mike Seager, and he teaches exactly this for transition training on the 10, Easy push to full throttle, Rudder to keep centerline, Pull back to get the nose off, relax the backpressure, and a slight push forward and let it fly off the runway, set climb angle and airspeed to 120. Dan N289DT 10.6 hours RV10 time, now if I could just finish mine and fly it! -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 10:51 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A kitfoxmike wrote: My advice is to get out on that runway and ram the > throttle and pull back on the stick(actualy pull the stick then hit > the throttle) and get that nose off the runway as soon as it will get > up, this one might suprise you on how quick things will happen, then > as soon as the main depart the runway, push forward on the stick to > stay in ground effect, as soon as the speeds are correct pull back > and fly away. I suspect this will happen very quickly in an RV. Wow! I have to wonder how many low-time RV pilots could use that technique without dragging the rudder on the runway followed by slamming the nose wheel back down, followed by......I'm not sure what. :-) The elevator on an RV has a *lot* of authority and takeoff is not a good time to be sawing on the stick. This thread was begun by someone stating their concern about being able to hold an RV-A on the centerline during the takeoff run. This task will be more or less mastered very early in transition training and there will be no need for manhandling the control stick during takeoffs. Just smoothly apply power, a *little* back stick to lighten the load on the nose gear and give the wings a slightly positive angle of attack, then off you go with little further control input as the wings decide it is time to fly and the plane transitions into climb. Takeoff will occur in about the same amount of time it took to read the previous sentence. :-) Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 2007
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A
Lloyd, Daniel R. wrote: > > I am one of the low time pilots and just completed transition training > with Mike Seager, and he teaches exactly this for transition training on > the 10, Easy push to full throttle, Rudder to keep centerline, Pull back > to get the nose off, relax the backpressure, and a slight push forward > and let it fly off the runway, set climb angle and airspeed to 120. > Dan > N289DT 10.6 hours RV10 time, now if I could just finish mine and fly it! Dan, I should have prefaced my remarks to say I was referring to two-place RVs. I have never flown a -10, but a couple of pilots who have -10 time told me the controls are significantly heavier than the two-place RVs (nicely harmonized, just heavier), and I suppose this means a bit more control travel is necessary at slow speed. I have no doubt Mike taught you well. :-) Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Another 9A First Flight
Date: Apr 30, 2007
From: "Snow, Daniel A." <Daniel.Snow(at)wancdf.com>
Just to add another datapoint to the already excellent RV history, N214D's uneventful first flight occurred early Friday morning. Construction of the "slow build" 9A took 1850 hours over a period of 16 months, including painting. Empty weight came in at 1064 pounds, including a full Classic Aero Designs interior. The Sensenich fixed-pitch prop is powered by one of the first Superior XP-O320's to fly, and preliminary flight tests indicate 183 mph at 8000' and 75% power. The panel consists of GRT's Sport EFIS/EIS w/moving map, Garmin's GNS-430, Garmin's GTX-327, Icom's A200, PS Engineering's PMA-4000, Garmin's GI-106A indicator, and a panel-mounted Garmin 296. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Looking for Robby Knox
From: "Jekyll" <rcitjh(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 30, 2007
Nowhere did I mention identity theft. I talked about personal security. -Many people spend extra money for unlisted phone numbers. -You can have your name and number put in a phone book without the address. -Many people use a post office box so others can't get their street address. -Government agencies won't give out personal information. -Passwords with vendors to protect account information with services, utilities and insurance carriers. -Not putting your name on your mail box. -Not connecting your name and address to your email address except with trusted parties. These are a few of the many methods people take to protect their personal information to help ensure their personal safety. About 10 years ago a promising young actress was brutally murdered by a stalker who got her address from the California DMV. I have had to move to a new state and keep my address and telephone number secret to avoid a credible death threat resulting from a divorce from a troubled woman. I couldn't give my children my address or phone number for 4 years. My current fianc fled from an abusive husband that threatened her life before I met her. He threatened me also once we started seeing each other. We were forced to keep our information from him. Readily available data makes it easier to commit crimes of passion. Someone that needs to work hard to get the data may loose the passion needed to follow through. This is the same concept underlying waiting periods for firearms purchases. People looking for targets to rob or to otherwise victimize, will not work any harder than necessary. It's like the old yarn about 2 hikers who encounter an angry bear: you don't need to outrun the bear, just be faster than the other guy. You don't know me and I chose to keep it that way but, everyone I correspond with off-line, from all RV forums, gets my name, address and telephone number along with a direct request to keep it to private. Posting personal information on a public web site is a personal choice that no one should appropriate. Whether you know it or not, I did Bob a favor with my post. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that I wasn't the only person offended by the way he nonchalantly posted a customer's personal information but, I was the only one that spoke up. He now has the knowledge to correct his processes and notify his potential customer base of a new policy. That action will regain my trust and, I'm sure, that of others. Customers are important in business but not nearly as important as the far greater number of people that ARE NOT YET your customers. For they are where your future lies. Bob may have sold several hundred sets of fairings (I don't know) but his future is with the tens of thousands of RV and other type builders that haven't yet become customers. Posts from people looking for others pop up frequently. Most posters handle the request with appropriate confidentiality without providing the information. All Bob needed to do was submit a post along the lines of "Looking for Robby Knox from Ricon GA. I can't find him at the address or telephone he supplied. Please contact me OFF LINE with any information that might help me". By using his web site contact information, Bob would have provided enough information for the forum population to know it was a legitimate request. He would have gotten the same responses, not compromised Robby's personal security and not offended any future customers. Now everyone knows Robby is building an RV and they have an address where he is likely building it. Since he has bought fairing, one might assume he has many other expensive parts sitting around for the taking. Bob Collins: sorry, but I disagree - this is not a private spat. This is a matter of forum etiquette. Bob did something inappropriate in a public forum therefore, the discussion belongs here as an aid to prevent future breaches. The bottom line: you don't know the specifics of someone's life; therefore have no right to publicly publish their information. Jekyll Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110064#110064 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Looking for Robby Knox
Date: Apr 30, 2007
From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com>
Jekyll, The stuff you describe is dark-n-scary, but the posting on Robby Knox looked a lot more like "public shaming" which has a usefulness that is no longer practiced--instead our prisons are full. If Mr. Knox is guilty of the commercial transgressions that the posting alleges, and if he would like to protect his good name, then he should either pay up or stop the scufflaw behavior--or both. A secondary purpose of the posting is putting the general public on notice that commercial transactions with Mr. Knox may be a risky business. This qualifies as a public service. While such a posting may be at the outer edges of the forum, its not totally out of school since a lot of commercial tranactions and the reputation of many companies are discussed openly, so why are customers, who don't pay up, not an equally fair topic. If Mr. Knox has a reasonable explanation of why this transaction was not completed successfully and satisfactorily, then we welcome him to speak up and I'm sure that apologies, if appropriate, will be forthcoming in large quantities, no less, though this seems unlikely given the reputation and care of the people making the allegation(s). So yes, its unfortunate that anyone engages in this behavior, but if he/she does, then public shaming and general warning both seems appropriate. However, if anyone got a bad deal on a lawnmower, please don't post to this forum. J.M.P.O (Just My Personal Opinion....is that a new one?) Chuck Jensen -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jekyll Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 4:24 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: Looking for Robby Knox Nowhere did I mention identity theft. I talked about personal security. -Many people spend extra money for unlisted phone numbers. -You can have your name and number put in a phone book without the address. -Many people use a post office box so others can't get their street address. -Government agencies won't give out personal information. -Passwords with vendors to protect account information with services, utilities and insurance carriers. -Not putting your name on your mail box. -Not connecting your name and address to your email address except with trusted parties. These are a few of the many methods people take to protect their personal information to help ensure their personal safety. About 10 years ago a promising young actress was brutally murdered by a stalker who got her address from the California DMV. I have had to move to a new state and keep my address and telephone number secret to avoid a credible death threat resulting from a divorce from a troubled woman. I couldn't give my children my address or phone number for 4 years. My current fianc fled from an abusive husband that threatened her life before I met her. He threatened me also once we started seeing each other. We were forced to keep our information from him. Readily available data makes it easier to commit crimes of passion. Someone that needs to work hard to get the data may loose the passion needed to follow through. This is the same concept underlying waiting periods for firearms purchases. People looking for targets to rob or to otherwise victimize, will not work any harder than necessary. It's like the old yarn about 2 hikers who encounter an angry bear: you don't need to outrun the bear, just be faster than the other guy. You don't know me and I chose to keep it that way but, everyone I correspond with off-line, from all RV forums, gets my name, address and telephone number along with a direct request to keep it to private. Posting personal information on a public web site is a personal choice that no one should appropriate. Whether you know it or not, I did Bob a favor with my post. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that I wasn't the only person offended by the way he nonchalantly posted a customer's personal information but, I was the only one that spoke up. He now has the knowledge to correct his processes and notify his potential customer base of a new policy. That action will regain my trust and, I'm sure, that of others. Customers are important in business but not nearly as important as the far greater number of people that ARE NOT YET your customers. For they are where your future lies. Bob may have sold several hundred sets of fairings (I don't know) but his future is with the tens of thousands of RV and other type builders that haven't yet become customers. Posts from people looking for others pop up frequently. Most posters handle the request with appropriate confidentiality without providing the information. All Bob needed to do was submit a post along the lines of "Looking for Robby Knox from Ricon GA. I can't find him at the address or telephone he supplied. Please contact me OFF LINE with any information that might help me". By using his web site contact information, Bob would have provided enough information for the forum population to know it was a legitimate request. He would have gotten the same responses, not compromised Robby's personal security and not offended any future customers. Now everyone knows Robby is building an RV and they have an address where he is likely building it. Since he has bought fairing, one might assume he has many other expensive parts sitting around for the taking. Bob Collins: sorry, but I disagree - this is not a private spat. This is a matter of forum etiquette. Bob did something inappropriate in a public forum therefore, the discussion belongs here as an aid to prevent future breaches. The bottom line: you don't know the specifics of someone's life; therefore have no right to publicly publish their information. Jekyll Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110064#110064 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Looking for Robby Knox
From: "Jekyll" <rcitjh(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 30, 2007
Chuck: I agree with everything you said. I have NO issues with the public shaming or implied black listing aspects of the post. In this regard, Mr. Knox wrote his own future and should expect the consequences however, inclusion of his physical address and telephone number was not needed for this purpose. The 2000 Census shows Rincon has a population of 4376 people. I bet there is only 1 Robby Knox and if not, the sub-set of Robby Knox, RV builder, is probably 1. The Internet is a powereful tool that can be used equally effectively for good and bad. We all need to work to reduce, or eliminate, its uses for bad behavior. We as POSTERS to this forum are a registered group of like-minded RV enthusiast whereas the READERS are not. Jekyll Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110077#110077 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oldsfolks(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 30, 2007
Subject: Re: Amount of smooth prime to do job
The smooth prime goes a long way. Unless your cowl is worse that mine was , a quart should be enough. Moral of the previous reply : STAY AWAY from plastic airplanes !!! Bob Olds RV-4 N1191X Charleston,Arkansas ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 2007
From: Carl Peters <say.ahh1(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A
While I normally fly Pipers, I play once in awhile with a DA-20 (and have flown the DA-40/G1000). Using the castoring nosewheel the first time or two was awkward, but it became intuitive after a bit. I usually use the rudder even to full stops for small corrections (as their is some prop wash), and lean on the brake a bit if needed. On takeoff, the rudder quickly becomes effective enough. Just have to watch the crosswind gusts. Works well. The DA-20 also is helpful with its obnoxious glide ratio for energy management in landing for us RV-9 drivers to be. Carl (RV-9A) PS - Love your website - I am a little behind you in construction, and your site is one of my favored "reference" sites ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Amount of smooth prime to do job
Date: Apr 30, 2007
From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com>
Staying away from plastic planes in the RV is really quite easy...unless they throttle back. :-) Chuck Jensen -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oldsfolks(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 7:07 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: Amount of smooth prime to do job The smooth prime goes a long way. Unless your cowl is worse that mine was , a quart should be enough. Moral of the previous reply : STAY AWAY from plastic airplanes !!! Bob Olds RV-4 N1191X Charleston,Arkansas ________________________________ See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Re: Amount of smooth prime to do job
Date: Apr 30, 2007
Good one, Chuck. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Jensen Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 7:43 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Amount of smooth prime to do job Staying away from plastic planes in the RV is really quite easy...unless they throttle back. :-) Chuck Jensen -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oldsfolks(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 7:07 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: Amount of smooth prime to do job The smooth prime goes a long way. Unless your cowl is worse that mine was , a quart should be enough. Moral of the previous reply : STAY AWAY from plastic airplanes !!! Bob Olds RV-4 N1191X Charleston,Arkansas _____ See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> . href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rtitsworth" <rtitsworth(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Looking for Robby Knox
Date: Apr 30, 2007
"Jekyll" said ..."BAD FORM" Jekyll - see below. So much for your concept of "personal" information. Looks pretty "public" to me. Guess you'll have to take it up with the FAA. FAA Registry Name Inquiry Results ROBERT WILLIAM KNOX JR Street 107 PADDLEFORD DR City RINCON State GA County EFFINGHAM Zip Code 31326-4900 Country USA Medical Class: Third Medical Date: 7/2006 Certificates 1 of 2 DOI: 4/9/1995 Certificate: PRIVATE PILOT Rating(s): PRIVATE PILOT AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2007
From: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Re: 12v supply to stabilize avionics
The LTC3780 IC drives the pass element MOSFETs, not the load. The package only has to dissipate the drive power while the MOSFETs dissipate the main power losses, which at an efficiency of 95% is less than 9W total. In fact, with synchronous rectification, the efficiency is probably more than 95%. MOSFETs require very little current to drive them so the IC is probably dissipating no more than a few tens of mW so will stay very cool. The suggested power design using this part is rated at 5A, but merely using higher capacity MOSFETs would allow it to provide whatever amount of power the designer wanted it to do. The data sheet recommends it for: Automotive Systems Telecom Systems DC Power Distribution Systems High Power Battery-Operated Devices Industrial Control No airplanes listed, but then again nobody ever does list airplanes for this type product - even though it clearly could be used there. By the way, if one were to assume that all the power were supplied by the chip alone (not possible in this case because the chip does not include all the parts necessary for a power supply) the way to calculate the allowable dissipation is: 100C allowable rise divided by 130 C/W = 0.769W of allowable dissipation. Which actually has nothing to do with the amount of current it could provide, but everything to do with the efficiency of the part in delivering useful output. For instance, if the efficiency of our hypothetical one-chip power supply was 95% (like the actual power supply system design) then, since we have calculated the chip could dissipate 0.769W, we could deliver over 15W to the load - or almost 1.25A at 12V. The reason that no one has "thought of it long ago" is not that it wouldn't work, which it will, but that there is not really much necessity for this type solution. While what the suggested use for this is one solution the original poster's problem, adding a second battery would eliminate all of his concerns and have the added benefit of providing that much more standby power. On the other hand, this will weigh a whole lot less than an extra battery so if he has plenty of capacity in a single battery for his use, this would definitely allow him to eliminate the power brownout problem. Dick Tasker David Dalton wrote: > As an electrical engineer (working on consumer electronics, not on A/C > systems), I would not recommend this for A/C use. I'm not sure where > you come up with 14A continuous, but that amount of current would fry > the package in no time at all. The spec says that the unit can take a > max temp of 125 C. Lets assume that you mount this in a temp > controlled environment where it sees a max of 25 C ambient. The temp > rise, as specified on the data sheet is 130C/W. At 12 volts nominal > voltage, if you draw 1 amp, the unit will disspate 12 W. This means > that the temp rise at the part would be 12 * 130 = 1560 degrees or > toast. Turning this around, if you want to keep the temp below 125 C, > with an ambient temp of 25C, you can afford a temp rise of 100C. > Therefore 130 C/W divided by 100 C temp rise equals 1.3 Watts, which > translates to roughly 100 mA of current. > > This part is designed for computers, embedded microprocessors (in cars > maybe) or other low current applications. I don't want to rain on > anyones parade, but if this were suitable for A/C systems, some would > have thought of it long ago. You'd be better off spending your dollars > on a small backup batter or a dual bus system. > > Best regards, > > D Dalton > > On 4/29/07, *bob mackey* > > wrote: > > Several asked for specs, so here they are... > > As Bob Nuchols surmised, this is lighter weight than > a second battery -- 0.1 lbs plus wiring. > It uses an Linear LTC3780. > http://www.linear.com/pc/productDetail.jsp?navId=H0,C1,C1003,C1042,C1116,P10090 > > The spec sheet for the 12V supply is attached. > > -bob mackey > > >* > > >* > -- Please Note: No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however, that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced. -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Another 9A First Flight
Date: May 01, 2007
Daniel, CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!! Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A >From: "Snow, Daniel A." <Daniel.Snow(at)wancdf.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: Another 9A First Flight >Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:07:11 -0500 > > >Just to add another datapoint to the already excellent RV history, >N214D's uneventful first flight occurred early Friday morning. _________________________________________________________________ Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for as low as $771/month* https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Looking for Robby Knox
From: "Jekyll" <rcitjh(at)aol.com>
Date: May 01, 2007
deruiteraircraftservices( wrote: > Publishing details like ones posted would be enough for me not to do business with Jekyll... Woah there, Jekyll did not provide any information. I spoke up about it being posted by others! Jekyll Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110238#110238 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Power Off Glide
Date: May 01, 2007
Today was a great flying day here in Georgia, so I made a tour of North Georgia after work. One of the things I experimented with today was the power off (prop stopped) glide characteristics of my plane. After climbing to 9,500' I gradually eased the throttle back and let the engine cool to below 250F on the hottest cylinder. It didn't seem to want to get any cooler, even in what was more or less an idling glide, so I pulled the mixture to kill the engine. The prop continued windmilling down to under 70 knots indicated and then stopped. An unusual sight, to say the least, and not one I hope to see unexpectedly. Next, I pulled out my little video camera and began to film instrument readings with the prop visibly stopped in the background. As it turned out, the airplane's lowest sink speed was 80 knots indicated, which gave a sink rate of 700 to 750 fpm. I logged about 5 minutes of glider time, filming all the while, and then pushed the mixture back to rich, pushed the nose down and waited for the prop to begin windmilling as the airplane accelerated. At about 120 knots, the prop made a half rotation and stopped on the compression stroke. This happened again a couple more times as airspeed increased, then, at 140 knots indicated, the prop began to windmill and the engine came back to life. So, I gradually eased power up, flew back to my home field, and went to review the data from my camera. Which hadn't filmed a darned thing. User error, I assume. My guess is that I hit the "record" button too soon after powering up the camera and it wasn't quite ready to make movies yet. Some other day, maybe... Kyle Boatright 160 HP, fixed pitch, RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael D. Cencula" <matronics(at)cencula.com>
Subject: Re: Main spar flange bend angle problem
Date: May 02, 2007
For the archive: After a talking with Scott at Van's, I learned that the spar flange angles are: Top flange 88.5 +/-.5 degrees Bottom flange 89 +/-.5 degrees Measured between flange and web (in the corner where the main ribs sit) My spar flanges were definitely out of spec. Scott indicated that they have had several spars with this problem. Apparently the spar channel is OK until it is assembled with the top and bottom bars. This causes the flanges to open up a bit. Scott recommended the same fix they use at Van's when they encounter this problem...cut a slot in a 2x4 and use that as a lever to tweak the flanges into positon. My situation was a bit more difficult because I already had all the platenuts attached, so I needed a rather narrow tool to fit between the platenuts. I tried several pieces of wood and composite material all of which broke on the first try. I ended up getting a piece of 1/2 inch thick aluminum bar from the scrap tub at work and cut a slot in it. After removing the main ribs (that was a chore) and reworking the left spar flanges, I'd qualify results as very good. Not perfect, but it's 95% better than it was originally. Rib #5 was the worst rib with about .090 gap. After reworking the flanges, there is essentially no gap between the spar flange and the rib joggle flange. A similar improvement resulted at all the other ribs as well. Hopefully someone will find this information useful in the future. Happy building, Mike On Saturday April 28 2007 01:39 pm, Michael D. Cencula wrote: > > RV-ers, > > I'm trying to figure out what to do about a problem with my main spar > flanges. The problem is detailed at: > > http://www.our7a.com/20070426.html > http://www.our7a.com/20070428.html > > Essentially, I think I need to tweak the bend angle of the main spar > flanges in some locations. > > The problem is that the material is THICK and I've already riveted on my > main ribs, so how can I tweak this angle? > > I suppose I could remove all the main ribs. It wouldn't be terrible since > they're only attached to the main spar at this point, but I'd prefer to > avoid that hassle if possible. > > Any thoughts on how to tweak that spar flange? Seaming pliers seems like a > rough way to go. > > Also, does anyone know what this angle is supposed to actually be? > > Thanks, > > Mike Cencula > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Power Off Glide
Date: May 02, 2007
On 1 May 2007, at 22:19, Kyle Boatright wrote: > Today was a great flying day here in Georgia, so I made a tour of > North Georgia after work. One of the things I experimented with > today was the power off (prop stopped) glide characteristics of my > plane. > > After climbing to 9,500' I gradually eased the throttle back and > let the engine cool to below 250F on the hottest cylinder. It > didn't seem to want to get any cooler, even in what was more or > less an idling glide, so I pulled the mixture to kill the engine. > The prop continued windmilling down to under 70 knots indicated and > then stopped. An unusual sight, to say the least, and not one I > hope to see unexpectedly. > > Next, I pulled out my little video camera and began to film > instrument readings with the prop visibly stopped in the background. > > As it turned out, the airplane's lowest sink speed was 80 knots > indicated, which gave a sink rate of 700 to 750 fpm. I logged about > 5 minutes of glider time, filming all the while, and then pushed > the mixture back to rich, pushed the nose down and waited for the > prop to begin windmilling as the airplane accelerated. > How does the lowest sink speed and sink rate compare to what you would see with engine at idle? Many folks do this testing at idle, and I'm wondering how much error that creates. It would also be interesting to do the same test with engine OFF, but prop windmilling. What type of prop do you have? Kevin Horton Ottawa, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Power Off Glide
Date: May 02, 2007
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Horton" <khorton01(at)rogers.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 5:39 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Power Off Glide > > On 1 May 2007, at 22:19, Kyle Boatright wrote: > >> Today was a great flying day here in Georgia, so I made a tour of North >> Georgia after work. One of the things I experimented with today was the >> power off (prop stopped) glide characteristics of my plane. >> >> After climbing to 9,500' I gradually eased the throttle back and let >> the engine cool to below 250F on the hottest cylinder. It didn't seem >> to want to get any cooler, even in what was more or less an idling >> glide, so I pulled the mixture to kill the engine. The prop continued >> windmilling down to under 70 knots indicated and then stopped. An >> unusual sight, to say the least, and not one I hope to see unexpectedly. >> >> Next, I pulled out my little video camera and began to film instrument >> readings with the prop visibly stopped in the background. >> >> As it turned out, the airplane's lowest sink speed was 80 knots >> indicated, which gave a sink rate of 700 to 750 fpm. I logged about 5 >> minutes of glider time, filming all the while, and then pushed the >> mixture back to rich, pushed the nose down and waited for the prop to >> begin windmilling as the airplane accelerated. >> > > How does the lowest sink speed and sink rate compare to what you would > see with engine at idle? Many folks do this testing at idle, and I'm > wondering how much error that creates. It would also be interesting to > do the same test with engine OFF, but prop windmilling. > There doesn't seem to be a big difference in the idling performance vs the prop stopped performance at 80 knots and below. As to the prop windmilling/engine off sink rate, I didn't fly in that condition for long enough to make a mental note of the performance. > What type of prop do you have? Aymar/Demuth fixed pitch wood. Fairly aggressively pitched. > > Kevin Horton > Ottawa, Canada > KB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dwight Frye <dwight(at)openweave.org>
Subject: Exhaust Installation
Date: May 02, 2007
I have a friend who has to replace his exhaust system on an RV-4, and he has asked for my assistance. Thing is, this will be a learning experience for me (i.e. I've not installed _my_ exhaust yet) rather than one of those been-there-done-that situations. So I have questions. We'll be installing a Vetterman crossover exhaust on his engine. The existing exhaust is not a Vetterman, so there are changes afoot. For one the current EGT probes will need to be changed and are not being done at this time. Should we leave drilling for the probes until we have them in hand, or can we drill the holes now and cover them (say with a piece of SS and a band clamp)? If we wait to drill later (which makes more sense, to me) can we drill the holes in place? Or would we need to remove the exhaust to drill so we can (for instance) debur the backside of the holes? The exhaust hangers will be totally different, and I have heard that Vetterman is providing a new/improved hanger arrangement. Does anyone have experience with the new hanger setup they can share? Does it attach with some of the sump bolts? Or some other mechanism? In short, is there anything we need to be forewarned about regarding the hangers? His current setup has the breather tube routed into one of the exhaust pipes. This will need to change as well. Does anyone have good examples of how (and where) to terminate the breather line? Any "gotchas" or "best practices" we should be aware of? How about torque values on the attach bolts? On the sump or case bolts, if we have to remove them to attach the hanger? Anything I've forgotten? Thanks, in advance, for any up-front educating you can give me so we get this right the first time. -- Dwight ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: Exhaust Installation
Date: May 02, 2007
Dwight, Obviously there are some differences between this RV4 and my -6 however the location of the EGT probes is very near where the exhaust exits the heads. I had no problem drilling these after the exhaust was in place and did not remove them after. I also am not familiar with any changes Vetterman made to the exhaust hangars, but mine attached to the lower portion of the engine mount between the firewall and the engine. There was a piece of tubing with fittings that sort of made a sling across the back where the exhaust clamps could attach. I don't think you will have any problem figuring this out. No attachments to the sump bolts were made on mine. Again the RV-4 or any changes may be different. Maybe someone with a current RV-4 setup can jump in. Tim > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dwight Frye > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 9:47 AM > To: RV Mailing List > Subject: RV-List: Exhaust Installation > > > I have a friend who has to replace his exhaust system on an RV-4, and > he has asked for my assistance. Thing is, this will be a learning > experience for me (i.e. I've not installed _my_ exhaust yet) rather than > one of those been-there-done-that situations. So I have questions. > > We'll be installing a Vetterman crossover exhaust on his engine. The > existing exhaust is not a Vetterman, so there are changes afoot. For > one the current EGT probes will need to be changed and are not being > done at this time. Should we leave drilling for the probes until we > have them in hand, or can we drill the holes now and cover them (say > with a piece of SS and a band clamp)? If we wait to drill later (which > makes more sense, to me) can we drill the holes in place? Or would we > need to remove the exhaust to drill so we can (for instance) debur the > backside of the holes? > > The exhaust hangers will be totally different, and I have heard that > Vetterman is providing a new/improved hanger arrangement. Does anyone > have experience with the new hanger setup they can share? Does it > attach with some of the sump bolts? Or some other mechanism? In short, > is there anything we need to be forewarned about regarding the hangers? > > His current setup has the breather tube routed into one of the exhaust > pipes. This will need to change as well. Does anyone have good examples > of how (and where) to terminate the breather line? Any "gotchas" or > "best practices" we should be aware of? How about torque values on the > attach bolts? On the sump or case bolts, if we have to remove them to > attach the hanger? Anything I've forgotten? > > Thanks, in advance, for any up-front educating you can give me so we > get this right the first time. > > -- Dwight > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "T.C. Chang" <tc1234c(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Exhaust Installation
Date: May 02, 2007
Dwight, I drilled holes in place. Before you drill make sure the screw on the clamp does not interfere with the spark plug. I have posted some pictures of my engine and instruments installation on Picasa. It should give you some idea about the hanger and the breather tube routing. Following are the links. http://picasaweb.google.com/tc1234c/Engine http://picasaweb.google.com/tc1234c/GRTInstallation Ted ------------------------------------------ T.C. Chang http://tc1234c.googlepages.com/ RV-9A, Lycoming (ECI) O320-D2A, 160 hp, Carb, Dual Mag, Sensenich FP GRT dual DU H1, TT DigiFlight II VSGV, 145.6 hr Hobbs -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dwight Frye Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 10:47 AM Subject: RV-List: Exhaust Installation I have a friend who has to replace his exhaust system on an RV-4, and he has asked for my assistance. Thing is, this will be a learning experience for me (i.e. I've not installed _my_ exhaust yet) rather than one of those been-there-done-that situations. So I have questions. We'll be installing a Vetterman crossover exhaust on his engine. The existing exhaust is not a Vetterman, so there are changes afoot. For one the current EGT probes will need to be changed and are not being done at this time. Should we leave drilling for the probes until we have them in hand, or can we drill the holes now and cover them (say with a piece of SS and a band clamp)? If we wait to drill later (which makes more sense, to me) can we drill the holes in place? Or would we need to remove the exhaust to drill so we can (for instance) debur the backside of the holes? The exhaust hangers will be totally different, and I have heard that Vetterman is providing a new/improved hanger arrangement. Does anyone have experience with the new hanger setup they can share? Does it attach with some of the sump bolts? Or some other mechanism? In short, is there anything we need to be forewarned about regarding the hangers? His current setup has the breather tube routed into one of the exhaust pipes. This will need to change as well. Does anyone have good examples of how (and where) to terminate the breather line? Any "gotchas" or "best practices" we should be aware of? How about torque values on the attach bolts? On the sump or case bolts, if we have to remove them to attach the hanger? Anything I've forgotten? Thanks, in advance, for any up-front educating you can give me so we get this right the first time. -- Dwight ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Garry" <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: CHT's and EGT's Spreads?
Date: May 02, 2007
I just recently did my first flight in my RV-7A. All went very well and the plane flew straight and true. As with all new builds, there are some squawks I'm working through.........primarily related to the initial setup of my Grand Rapids Horizon System EFIS. The GRT requires me to input "ranges" (min, max) for virtually every engine parameter known to man. My question to the group is what are typical ranges for CHTs and EGTs? And more importantly, how much variation between cylinders is acceptable, and how much deviation means I have a problem that needs to be addressed. For example, if I have a 100 degree difference in CHT from my coolest to my hottest cylinder, is that a problem? My engine is an AeroSport (Lycomming clone) IO-360. Thanks in advance, Garry Stout N498WT, Odessa Florida ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: What cost flying ?
Date: May 02, 2007
Hey guys, Austin is back! I took the brash step of removing the d.n.a. note from his post so I can see it again after the inevitable computer crash wipes out all my emails. Thanks, Austin. You make me want to get out to the shop and get this project moving! Terry _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Austin Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 3:37 PM Subject: RV-List: What cost flying ? Listers, Got my medical and heart thing renewed today. Cost, ever rising, was about $150 or so. I have no complaints. Here I am in the sunset of the logbook, cleared to go and for another two years , free to get up there and watch for the eagles and things and see the map of the world in its real colors spread out as far as these old eyes can appreciate. Airplanes have been sold and pilots standing down for whatever the reason may be and airspace is constantly under review and now, where we used to be free to buzz over wherever our friends wanted to meet up and join, you best watch for the Blackhawks of Homeland Security who will intercept and scare you some even if you have talked to all who need to know who you are and where...but, that is OK too as the world is not the same anymore and cheap gas will never return. But surely as a hormone driven young lad is compelled to pursue love, an old and incurable flight lover will fly on until the cost is the killer. And even then, as long as one can drive or bus out to the field where engine sounds are ever rising and falling, airplanes or any part of the flying experience will draw the faithful. Spring has not yet made up its mind to stay or wait awhile, so a warm sunny day is followed by one which almost demands Special VFR...here comes a black and ominous blanket of cloud pushing pelting rain before it and a fair bit of bouncing around, but I remember such a day long ago, as..here I am up here and in no position to bargain. five of us set out on a cross country and I see none of them and luckily, a single ray of sunshine, much like a beam from a flashlight comes from the cloud and I can see my grass strip and land for coffee, a breather, and an oath of the old refrain of being glad to be down here wishing I was up there rather than being up there and wishing I was down here .. The fresh West wind blows the system farther up the valley where granite yields not at all and I am free to go home, where I find the other 4 have long since been and although I have garnered some brownie points for judgement, I feel not so much the dumbbell, but the graduate..Nature is at once awful and beautiful and another day away is a completely different canvas. This is why I have always marveled at the cost of the roll of the dice of many I have known who have bought the farm one day, and 24 hours later, or less, could have been around to stay another few or many years if the weather was not as it was that day. Doc says to me, fly as long as you can and don't do anything stupid. Well, I have done, and will likely do again, something stupid, but each time I did learn and was less and less a gambler. Another benefit is that it has been a very long time since the tower guys have asked me to phone them after I shutdown. Ah ! those innocent days when I landed on the taxi way at San Jose thinking that all that new blacktop just had to be the new strip. They were nice to me though. Much nicer than they had to be because you see, they thought I was a student from over the hills who don't know how to use a radio, if it works, and answer " Roger " to everything, even if it is a directive to crash and burn... About that radio, does anyone today know how to use an Aldis lamp and do what it wants you to do ? As with building my RV, I will never know the cost, real and imagined, and do not have the answer to the two most irritating questions, other than " is that a canoe "..like how much has it cost and how long will it take ? Does it matter ? A good friend has proclaimed that the cost of the glass goodies he wants in his panel really is not what he wants to talk about since he " can't take it with him " and other issues are more worrisome....All in all, flying and anything associated with it is, as the ad says, " priceless " and we are lucky we can still do it in this country, even if we have to keep fighting to do so. Oh, and one other thing, there is one thing which has changed not a whit since I first found it at the dawn of time, and that is that flyers and pilots are accorded a welcome, a shelter, the use of a car, a lunch, a helping hand, especially in the far away, that I would not be quick to expect if I were not a flyer. Cost of being a flyer ?....... What else would I do ? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: RV family
Date: May 02, 2007
I remember getting grief from other slow builders because my kit came with a precut firewall with all the little bits clecoed in place. I was elated when someone finally got a Quickbuild so I could pass it along. Guess they'll always be a pecking order. Regards, Greg Young - Houston (DWH) RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A > > This has got uphill both ways in snow written all over it! The previous > generation always has it worse than the next, and the older group never > wants to hear the woes of the younger generation....while each > generation always feels that they are justified in their complaining. > LOL > Dan > N289DT RV10E and yes the cabin top does suck, so much fiberglass on a > metal plane is not right! > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Oil cooler port location
Date: May 02, 2007
I know this has been hashed, but I can't find the answer in the archives. Which port should be pressure to the oil cooler and which one return on an O-320? The one I think is pressure is to the right of center on the accessory case and the return is higher up on the left side. Is that right? I'm moving our oil cooler to the engine mount behind #4, mounted vertically and I want to make sure that the pressurized oil is going in the bottom. Pax, Ed Holyoke ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Oil cooler port location
Date: May 02, 2007
I know this has been hashed, but I can't find the answer in the archives. Which port should be pressure to the oil cooler and which one return on an O-320? The one I think is pressure is to the right of center on the accessory case and the return is higher up on the left side. Is that right? I'm moving our oil cooler to the engine mount behind #4, mounted vertically and I want to make sure that the pressurized oil is going in the bottom. Pax, Ed Holyoke ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: May 03, 2007
Subject: Re: Oil cooler port location
In a message dated 5/2/2007 10:05:00 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bicyclop(at)pacbell.net writes: Which port should be pressure to the oil cooler and which one return on an O-320? The one I think is pressure is to the right of center on the accessory case and the return is higher up on the left side. Is that right? ====================================== Correctamundo! Bottom (pressure) port plumbs to bottom port on cooler. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 844hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: CHT's and EGT's Spreads?
Date: May 03, 2007
With a new engine you might initially try 450 CHT's and 1450 for EGT's. Remember that 500 degrees is max allowable CHT and I don't recall the max allowable for EGT but I think it is 1500 degrees (I'm sure if that is incorrect someone on the list will provide the correct number). After the engine starts to loosen up with break in you can probably adjust those limits downward somewhat. A 100 degree spread in CHT is more than you want but you will most likely be able to balance those temps with baffles plates in front of the front cylinders. Experiment with different sizes and shapes. Make certain that your baffles are well sealed so that all the cooling air is passing over the cylinder fins, not leaking around the sides or front of the engine. BTW, congratulations on the first flight. -- Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 339 hours -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Garry" <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com> > > I just recently did my first flight in my RV-7A. All went very well and the > plane flew straight and true. As with all new builds, there are some > squawks I'm working through.........primarily related to the initial setup > of my Grand Rapids Horizon System EFIS. > > The GRT requires me to input "ranges" (min, max) for virtually every engine > parameter known to man. My question to the group is what are typical ranges > for CHTs and EGTs? And more importantly, how much variation between > cylinders is acceptable, and how much deviation means I have a problem that > needs to be addressed. For example, if I have a 100 degree difference in > CHT from my coolest to my hottest cylinder, is that a problem? > > My engine is an AeroSport (Lycomming clone) IO-360. > > Thanks in advance, > > Garry Stout > N498WT, Odessa Florida > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 03, 2007
From: Todd Bartrim <bartrim(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: What cost flying ?
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Oil cooler port location
Date: May 03, 2007
Thanks, Ed -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vanremog(at)aol.com Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 9:10 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil cooler port location In a message dated 5/2/2007 10:05:00 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bicyclop(at)pacbell.net writes: Which port should be pressure to the oil cooler and which one return on an O-320? The one I think is pressure is to the right of center on the accessory case and the return is higher up on the left side. Is that right? ====================================== Correctamundo! Bottom (pressure) port plumbs to bottom port on cooler. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 844hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) _____ See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Whiteside" <erwhites(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: looking for a prop
Date: May 03, 2007
I need to replace the prop on my RV4. I have been flying a constant speed up to now, but it has become uneconomic to maintain/repair. I am going to try lighter/simpler for a change, so I=92m looking for a wood prop suitable for a 160hp O-320. Any recommendations based on actual operational experience would be appreciated. Also, if you know of one currently for sale please let me know. Thanks, Eric erwhites(at)bellsouth.net 2:16 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: looking for a prop
Date: May 03, 2007
I had an Aymar Demuth on my O-360 RV-6A. I converted to a three blade Catto prop and only picked up about 3 mph so either is an option. Ron Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Whiteside To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 11:31 AM Subject: RV-List: looking for a prop I need to replace the prop on my RV4. I have been flying a constant speed up to now, but it has become uneconomic to maintain/repair. I am going to try lighter/simpler for a change, so I=92m looking for a wood prop suitable for a 160hp O-320. Any recommendations based on actual operational experience would be appreciated. Also, if you know of one currently for sale please let me know. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 03, 2007
From: Bob <panamared5(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: looking for a prop
At 01:17 PM 5/3/07, Ron Lee wrote: >I had an Aymar Demuth on my O-360 RV-6A. I converted to a three >blade Catto prop >and only picked up about 3 mph so either is an option. > I concur, I fly an Aymar Demuth, he custom builds them to your plane and type of flying. My cruise is very close to Vne. Cruise is much faster than what Van publishes, and climb is still better than Van's specs. BTW, why is the constant speed uneconomical? I have never owned one. Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: What cost flying ?
From: "Miles Bowen" <cessna170bdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 03, 2007
Great post, LimaTango! I have two quotes posted on my cork board at work: "For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Leonardo DaVinci "Aircraft ownership is an incurable form of madness for which there is no known cure, so quit bi^&%in' and write the check!" Author Unknown (at least to me) (edited slightly) [Wink] Miles -------- Miles 1955 C170B HRII Plans#211 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110664#110664 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: Flying without gear leg fairings
Date: May 03, 2007
Hi all, I have been flying my RV-6 without wheel pants or leg fairings since October when it first took to the air. I had my wheel pants fitted but not the leg fairings. I am wondering if anyone sees a reason why I can't fly with the wheel pants on, and the leg fairings off. At least till I find another day I can spend working on it to fit the leg fairings. Too much flying to do and not enough days to work on it. Tim ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CHT's and EGT's Spreads?
From: Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au>
Date: May 04, 2007
I thinking about these very questions myself and went to the Skyranch Eng Manual for some guidance. To summarise for cruise: Normal EGT range: 1200-1600 F no mention I have found for maximum Oil Temp: 160-245 F with minimum continuous 165 CHT: minimum 150 F, normal 350-400 F (435 for turbocharged) The Skyranch recommendation is to impose a secondary redline on CHTs of 400 F for normally aspirated engines, leaning should result in CHTs below this. The issue with uneven temperatures is possible uneven cooling of the cylinders leading to cracking. The proposition is that large variations between cylinders implies uneven airflow around the cylinders. The recommendation is to balance the temps with baffling/deflectors. This makes sense to me and it is the reason I am fitting individual cylinder CHT monitoring. Doug Gray > > I just recently did my first flight in my RV-7A. All went very well and the > plane flew straight and true. As with all new builds, there are some > squawks I'm working through.........primarily related to the initial setup > of my Grand Rapids Horizon System EFIS. > > The GRT requires me to input "ranges" (min, max) for virtually every engine > parameter known to man. My question to the group is what are typical ranges > for CHTs and EGTs? And more importantly, how much variation between > cylinders is acceptable, and how much deviation means I have a problem that > needs to be addressed. For example, if I have a 100 degree difference in > CHT from my coolest to my hottest cylinder, is that a problem? > > My engine is an AeroSport (Lycomming clone) IO-360. > > Thanks in advance, > > Garry Stout > N498WT, Odessa Florida > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douglas Kohser" <dckoh(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Oil cooler port location
Date: May 03, 2007
There is also a secondary pressure out port, at least on the 320-E2D I have that came out of a Cardinal. It is right above the oil screen housing next to the breather port. I'm using that one because it already had the hose fittings, but mainly because I couldn't get the #$%&*@# plug out of the center hole. RV-6A Slow built, I used to be a Bauxite miner Marietta, GA _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vanremog(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 1:10 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil cooler port location In a message dated 5/2/2007 10:05:00 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bicyclop(at)pacbell.net writes: Which port should be pressure to the oil cooler and which one return on an O-320? The one I think is pressure is to the right of center on the accessory case and the return is higher up on the left side. Is that right? ====================================== Correctamundo! Bottom (pressure) port plumbs to bottom port on cooler. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 844hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) _____ See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 03, 2007
From: densing(at)carolina.rr.com
Subject: Re: Flying without gear leg fairings
Tim, I flew my 6A for several hours with just the wheel pants. No leg fairings and no lower intersection fairings. Dale Ensing ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Bryan <n616tb(at)btsapps.com> Date: Thursday, May 3, 2007 3:46 pm Subject: RV-List: Flying without gear leg fairings > > Hi all, > > I have been flying my RV-6 without wheel pants or leg fairings > since October > when it first took to the air. I had my wheel pants fitted but not > the leg > fairings. I am wondering if anyone sees a reason why I can't fly > with the > wheel pants on, and the leg fairings off. At least till I find > another day > I can spend working on it to fit the leg fairings. Too much flying > to do > and not enough days to work on it. > > Tim > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 04, 2007
From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:looking for a prop
>From: "Eric Whiteside" <erwhites(at)bellsouth.net> >Subject: RV-List: looking for a prop By far the TOP fixed pitch prop choice is the Sensenich. There is no faster better performing fixed pitch prop on the marked BAR NONE, and that has been proven by Van. You could pop for a new BA hartzell for $5,500 and that is the way to go if you want to stay constant speed. --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 04, 2007
From: "Thomas Lukasczyk" <Lukasczyk(at)gmx.net>
Subject: Re: looking for a prop
Hi Eric Take a look at the MT-170_R185-3E. It is a fixed pitch wooden prop with stainless steel protected leading edges. It is also covered by fiberglass. I think it is perfectly pitched for a RV-4 powered by an O-320 (160hp). I am reading exactly 2700rpm at full throttle and top speed. http://www.rv-4.de/ Thomas, rv-4 0-320 -- "Feel free" - 10 GB Mailbox, 100 FreeSMS/Monat ... Jetzt GMX TopMail testen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/topmail ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 04, 2007
From: Bob Snedaker <imfairings(at)cox.net>
Subject: Humble Apology to Roby Knox
Roby, Very sorry to drag your good name thru the public mud. Thank you for your payment on 5/3/07. It seems that later life is causing me to go off half cocked from time to time, which always results in becoming red faced. If I can be of help to you with any of those projects let me know, I will do my best, quietly! Again, my humblest apologies, and thanks for your business. -- Sincerely, Bob Snedaker Fairings-Etc PO Box 5488 Goodyear, AZ 85338 623 203 9795 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 04, 2007
From: Bob Snedaker <imfairings(at)cox.net>
Subject: Humble Apology to Robby Knox
Robby, Very sorry to drag your good name thru the public mud, and thank you for the payment on 5/3/07. It seems that later life is causing me to go off half cocked from time to time, which always results in becoming red faced. If I can be of help to you with any of those projects let me know, I will do my best, quietly! Again, my humblest apologies, and thanks for your business. -- Sincerely, Bob Snedaker Fairings-Etc PO Box 5488 Goodyear, AZ 85338 623 203 9795 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 04, 2007
From: Bob <panamared5(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re:looking for a prop
>By far the TOP fixed pitch prop choice is the Sensenich. > >There is no faster better performing fixed pitch prop on the marked >BAR NONE, and that has been proven by Van. > And how do we know this? Where I can I find the raw data or the source information? How about a list of all the props used in the comparison evaluation? Was standard off the self props used, or did the tester test all variations of a prop from all manufacturers? Did the tester test custom built props? Was the exact same pilot, plane, altitude, weather used to evaluate all the different props? Was all the testing on the same day? If not, what errors were induced by different days? Did all the fuel used come from the same fuel batch? What sort of instrumentation was used to evaluate the prop? What were the props evaluated for? Speed, efficiency, climb, smoothness, vibration, weight etc? What testing methodology was used? Who did the data analysis? How confident was the tester in the final result based upon the data analysis? Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re:looking for a prop
Date: May 04, 2007
Information that may be of interest to folks in this discussion about props. Using the handy, dandy Rvator index, ( http://rvhotline.expercraft.com/articles/2006/rvator_index.html ), I found two articles that folks may want To read. 2003 Issue 5, page 3 "The best damn prop west of the Pecos: How much of a difference is there really?" (Van) 2004 Issue 1 page 4 "More on Props" (Van) 2002 Issue 5, page 14 "Behind the Scenes: There's more to matching engines and props than you might think" (Ken Scott, I presume) I don't know if all the answers people are seeking are in these articles -- probably not. But they might provide some points of reference. You know, in that last issue, there was a good article on the canopy frame that I'd forgotten all about until I used the index and searched on a lark. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 9:06 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:looking for a prop >By far the TOP fixed pitch prop choice is the Sensenich. > >There is no faster better performing fixed pitch prop on the marked BAR >NONE, and that has been proven by Van. > And how do we know this? Where I can I find the raw data or the source information? How about a list of all the props used in the comparison evaluation? Was standard off the self props used, or did the tester test all variations of a prop from all manufacturers? Did the tester test custom built props? Was the exact same pilot, plane, altitude, weather used to evaluate all the different props? Was all the testing on the same day? If not, what errors were induced by different days? Did all the fuel used come from the same fuel batch? What sort of instrumentation was used to evaluate the prop? What were the props evaluated for? Speed, efficiency, climb, smoothness, vibration, weight etc? What testing methodology was used? Who did the data analysis? How confident was the tester in the final result based upon the data analysis? Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 04, 2007
From: Matt Jurotich <mjurotich(at)hst.nasa.gov>
Subject: Oil Threads on Prop Bolt?
About ready to put the prop on and have heard that one should oil the threads on the prop bolts for an O 360 with wood prop. I can't find documentation one way or the other. What did you do and why? Thanks Matthew M. Jurotich e-mail mail to: phone : 301-286-5919 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tracy Crook" <lors01(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: looking for a prop
Date: May 04, 2007
Music to my ears Ron. There is usually a speed penalty for going to 3 blades from 2. Catto must do a really fine job to give any increase at all. Any RPM difference in this swap? Tracy Crook (Catto 3 blade on 20B powered RV-8) ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Lee<mailto:ronlee(at)pcisys.net> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 2:17 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: looking for a prop I had an Aymar Demuth on my O-360 RV-6A. I converted to a three blade Catto prop and only picked up about 3 mph so either is an option. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: looking for a prop
Date: May 04, 2007
Tracy, I got right at 2700 RPM at full throttle at 8000' DA with the Aymar Demuth. I have yet to check the RPM under similar conditions with the Catto prop. If my recollection is right the speed delta was at 11,500' DA since it was too time consuming to fly southeast to get to lower altitude. Ron Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracy Crook To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 9:01 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: looking for a prop Music to my ears Ron. There is usually a speed penalty for going to 3 blades from 2. Catto must do a really fine job to give any increase at all. Any RPM difference in this swap? Tracy Crook (Catto 3 blade on 20B powered RV-8) ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Lee To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 2:17 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: looking for a prop I had an Aymar Demuth on my O-360 RV-6A. I converted to a three blade Catto prop and only picked up about 3 mph so either is an option. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dwight Frye <dwight(at)openweave.org>
Subject: Exhaust Gasket Installation Question
Date: May 05, 2007
So ... again, I'm helping a friend install new exhausts on his RV-4, and I have (yet another) question. The exhaust system came with a full set of slow-blow gaskets. My understanding (potentially incorrect) was that these were installed dry (i.e. without any sealant, goop, or goo). Furthermore, no mention of sealant was made in the installation notes from Vetterman. However, upon pulling off the old badly rusted exhaust pipes it seemed that the old gaskets .. which clearly were identical to what we were about to install .. had some rubbery goo used on them. To goo, or not to goo. That is the question. Are we supposed to use some sealant? If so, what? Enquiring minds want to know. Thanks! -- Dwight ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 05, 2007
From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re:looking for a prop
>From: "Eric Whiteside" <erwhites(at)bellsouth.net> > Dive for the foxholes ha ha funny you are right see..... >>From: Bob <panamared5(at)brier.net> >> >>Where I can I find the raw data or the source information? >>How about a list of all the props used in comparison evaluation? >>blaaa blaaa blaaa blaaa blaaa blaaa Bob I usually don't respond to some one that's sporting what seems to be an chip or attitude. How about you tell me what prop turns you on and I say GREAT and tell you what you want to hear, its the best. If you want the truth Van (Richard Vangrusven) did the test. I have been involved in RV's for +20 years and I can tell you his test abilities are scientific and meaningful. The test results where published in the RVator. Because I like you I scanned it and its here: http://img82.imageshack.us/my.php?image=prop200415me.jpg (might have to click to make full size) Now of course this is the Sensenich against all constant speed props and at one "cruise condition". Lets just say the Hartzell BA (blended airfoil) prop is the best of the best and also like the Sensenich, designed, engineered and test specifically for the RV, unlike generic props that are made for the RV market. The Sensenich was almost as fast as the Hartzell in this test and faster than many of the other constant speed props. Note you can debate and whine about how this test did not test XYZ condition or ABC condition, but I don't care. This is a significant test that is meaningful and gives a good bench mark and is consistent with theoretical predictions and results others have seen. I did flight test for a living and now fly large jets; I know what I am talking about, and I am not going to argue with you. Believe what you want. I can tell by your post you know everything.) Before you lecture me, the Professor, I have a masters in Aeronautical engineering and fly big jets so I am smarter than you. (ha ha ha ha). Seriously let me spell it out two truths: 1) Metal bladed props are thinner and more efficient than any wood bladed or wood / fiberglass prop. Fact 2) Three bladed props are slower than two bladed in the horse power and speed range RV's run in. When you get into 600 HP and 250 kts you might have an advantage with three blades. Fact Catto makes a nice prop but its not the fastest, sorry. They are well made and only heard of one break apart, spit a blade clean off. That was on Reno racer. There are advantages of wood like lower weight and less vibration. Now the soft advantage of Sensenich is its a BIG company that has been in business like 80 years and made a prop specifically for RV's. I think their engineering and testing is probably better than say Catto, a guy carving props out in his shop, no offense. Keep in mind when we talk 4 or 6 mph it may be only 2% or 3% difference in performance. Cost? Sensenich with all the hardware is $2000. What does a Catto cost? $3000 with out hardware? Nuff said, but I would beg guys to not be blinded by the sexy look of a painted three blade wood prop over a boring grey two blade Sensenich, which although is boring to look at on the ground is technically superior. Last Catto guys (guys flying Catto or other props) who don't lie estimate they are about 4-7 mph slower than the Sensenich. The problem with testing props is there are so side by side prop test. Swapping props out on the same plane is a pain. Ideally you would get two similar planes and fly them side by side and than swap props. Because of this hassle there is a lack of information and data. The prop makers don't want to do it. They would rather float a myth that theirs is the best. This opens the field to tall tails, unsupportable claims and really bad flight test data. When so called test are done sometimes like a MT prop dealer Lessdrag in CA, who although is well meaning, has no clue and ends up with results that are clearly garbage. That does not apply to Van who has an impeccable reputation for accurate and repeatable test data. However despite the lack of test data I know the math and prop theory , the basics. Just on paper the Sensenich is faster than other fixed props. Look at the above data, the slowest is a wood- fiberglass MT three blade prop. That is NOT an accident. One reason is as I mentioned above, I'll repeat: ***** Wood props are thicker than metal and therefore wood props are less efficient (slower). This effect is not as prevalent on slow planes or in climbs (slow speed). The Sensenich was DESIGNED specifically for the RV and was tested by professional prop designers, engineers and technicians ***** You can flame me, that is fine. If you just want to believe your prop or the one you want to buy is the the best in the world and will not consider the info I presented, I'm OK with that, but don't waste your time flaming me; I don't care and you are clearly smarter than I am. And if your buddy is going lickity split in his RV with a Catto (turning 2,950 rpm) than great. BTW Lycoming says your engine should be torn down if you turn higher than 2,970 RPM. Don't shoot the messenger, Lycoming service bulletin. Even rpm over 2835 rpm is serious and requires major repeated inspections. Yes, you will go faster if you over rev your engine, but RPM for RPM the Sensenich is more efficient with its thinner blades. PROP for PROP the Sensenich is the best performing and BEST value of any fixed prop available for the RV, period. Now weight and looks is another factor. I also like the feel of a fixed wood prop, but a well balanced metal prop on a balanced engine is plenty smooth if properly installed and balanced. No offense to Catto or MT or other wood bladed props, but there are compromises in life and no free lunch. Bob, don't be offended I am only raging on you because of your 20 questions you demanded answers for. Sincerely the Professor, George ATP/CFI-II-ME, RV-7/RV--4/B757 --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oldsfolks(at)aol.com
Date: May 05, 2007
Subject: Re: Exhaust Gasket Installation Question
I have used a good heavy coat of aluminum paint on exhaust gaskets to help with heat transfer and maybe help to seal the joints. I do this on vehicles and on the RV-4 also. Bob Olds RV-4 Charleston, Arkansas ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oldsfolks(at)aol.com
Date: May 05, 2007
Subject: RE: Exhaust Installation
You don't need the crankcase vent line to go INTO the exhaust pipe , just down to and almost against it. Any drops of oil will hit the pipe and become ash quickly. Has worked for me for years. Bob Olds RV-4 Charleston,Arkansas ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lyle Peterson" <lyleap(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Blaine Aviation Weekend
Date: May 05, 2007
This is coming very soon but it should be a great fly-in. EAA Chapter 237 is having a fly-in pancake breakfast and lunch at Anoka County Airport in Blaine, MN on May 19th and 20th Chapter 237's Famous Pancake Breakfast with sausage and beverage runs from 7a.m. to noon and lunch of hamburgers, hot dogs and chili runs until 4p.m. There are two really great aviation museums on the airport. Golden Wings Museum has a collection of beautifully restored vintage airplanes that includes five trimotors. American Wings Air Museum has a collection of warbirds from WWII to Dessert Storm. They also have a Wright Flyer replica, an original 1911 Steco biplane plus many other exhibits. There was a Swift, an Ercoupe, a Luscombe T8-F plus a lot of other vintage airplanes, warbirds and the usual later model airplanes at last year's event. There will be a Hangar Dance Saturday evening with the Sights and Sounds of Dave Andrews Big Band. This has been a lot of fun for everyone that attended in past years. More can be found at www.eaachapter237.org Thank you, Lyle Peterson President, EAA Chapter 237 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Flying without gear leg fairings
Date: May 06, 2007
Hi Tim, We flew our 8A with on the wheel pants on for about 6 months - No problem. With that said - when you get the gear leg and intersection fairings installed you will see a very nice increase in cruise speed! One note I would suggest that you install your main gear fairings first and fly. You can then install the nose wheel fairing and may avoid a rudder tab, if needed. Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A >From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: RV-List: Flying without gear leg fairings >Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 07:55:34 -0500 _________________________________________________________________ Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gordon or marge" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com>
Subject: looking for a prop
Date: May 06, 2007
-----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Whiteside Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 1:32 PM Subject: RV-List: looking for a prop I need to replace the prop on my RV4. I have been flying a constant speed up to now, but it has become uneconomic to maintain/repair. I am going to try lighter/simpler for a change, so I'm looking for a wood prop suitable for a 160hp O-320. Any recommendations based on actual operational experience would be appreciated. Also, if you know of one currently for sale please let me know. Thanks, Eric erwhites(at)bellsouth.net Eric: I have learned to distrust dogmatic statements and assertions that resemble dogma. Nevertheless some generalizations are reasonably useful. Metal props, being thinner, are likely more efficient than wood ones. Would you consider a fixed pitch metal? What will a wood prop do to your CG? Is the CG change acceptable? What do you want the prop to do; max speed at sea level and 2700, max speed at 10000' and 2700, best cruise at mid levels and some intermediate rpm, best initial takeoff and climb ability, greatest ground clearance, best cruise at high altitudes? There are a good many more questions. Do you expect to fly in rain? Will you have strong alternating high humidity/low humidity cycles? How clean is your airplane (there's a doozy of a question}. My direct experience is with Sensenich props. Their method of measuring pitch is different from some others but they do make props to a standard that they can reproduce. Consequently they will not alter a prop since that creates a non standard unit. I can send you performance data that was taken from my 160hp RV-4 but it would be useful only as a guide. Attached you your airplane it could be altogether different. Some years ago when considering a prop for my -4, I spent some time at Oshkosh with a couple of steel scales, measuring props. The variation was astonishing. Many that I looked at from reputable makers varied greatly from blade to blade. Does it matter? Maybe not very much but it moved me toward Sensenich. I have also learned that the surface condition is very important, causing performance variations of as much as 5%. Contact me off line if you would like to continue this conversation. Gordon Comfort N363GC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 06, 2007
From: "Charles Reiche" <reichec(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Garmin GNS 430 WAAS Upgrade Questions ANSWERED!
I was having a great deal of problems with verizon email all the way back to this discussion and I have some insights now that I have done 5 upgrades of existing IFR installations. Charles ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Reiche" <reichec(at)verizon.net> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 6:44 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin GNS 430 WAAS Upgrade Questions ANSWERED! > >> From Garmin I learned the following (hopefully all is correct) >> >> 1) Turnaround time is one week >> > Maybe > >> 2) Terrain/obstacle functionality is included in the $1500 price. Price >> may increase some time next year (TBD). >> > Yes this is true > >> 3) Primary nav software may be out 3rd quarter of 2007 >> > you can use it for primary nav as the Service bulletin that is out only > applies to 135 operators (as far as I can tell) Garmin does not consider > Service Bulletins manditory. the use of the prediction software is only > laid out in the service bulletin. > >> 4) New antenna and coax are included >> > The antenna changes from a ga56 to a ga35 with is slightly bigger in form > factor but uses the same hole footprint. You can wait a while until the > ga56w antenna which is the same shape as your current antenna. > > New coax is not included but your installation must have low loss coax > with a loss value of something like 3-7dB , This means that your coax must > be 13 feet long minimum and be made of rg-142 or rg-400. This is the only > real pain of the upgrade to 90% of all users. > >> 5) Retains the current mounting tray >> > For certified airplanes there are Field of view requirements for the use > of an external anunciator, which costs like $1000. you could also make > your own somehow. This only depends on how detailed an experimental > operator wants to follow the manual. > > >> 6) May require autopilot wiring change/addition >> > I have only found in cases of the king KAP140 and KFC 225 and the Stec > autopilots with GPSS adapter(early sn units below 600 need a relay > installed, after 600 need 1 wire installed) > All changes apply Localizer mode enhanced gain while the unit is in GPS > mode and allow "GS" coupling. > >> My question from anyone who has made the upgrade is it really a remove >> and replace situation? > can be > Will it still drive my Trio wing leveler autopilot with no wiring > changes? > yes > Is the possible autpipilot wiring change if you have altitude autopilot? > yes or GPSS steering with Stec > Any other issues that may affect a decision to upgrade? > Is it worth it yet. The unit only carries 90 days > warranty after modification so use it alot after you get it back to see if > anything is wrong. I have had 2 screen problems with flickering so far. > The brains of the unit are only changed, not the face bezel, not the > buttons, not the knobs, noth the screen..... catch my drift. also, no > mods other than the NAV board is done, there are other existin COM mods > and general mods available but at more cost and time in house. > Another option is to find a shop that will take your unit in on trade and > buy a new unit for more... then carrying a full 2yr warranty. >> >> Ron Lee >> > Charles Reiche ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Looking for hangar designer
From: "gbrasch" <gbrasch(at)earthlink.net>
Date: May 06, 2007
Paul, Glenn here in Tucson. I would contact Gary Schneider out at Ryan, he and his partner have built all the hangars out there, including mine. His work cell is 520-954-7667. Tell him I sent you. Be careful over there, you still flying OH-58's? I miss them.... -------- Glenn Brasch RV-9A Finishing #90623, O-360 Tucson, Arizona Van's Aircraft Belt Buckles http://home.earthlink.net/~gbrasch/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=111254#111254 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Looking for hangar designer
Date: May 07, 2007
Hi Paul- >Hey all, I'm looking at building a hangar/condo/gameroom combination on an airstrip. Anyone know of a firm that specializes in this? > >Thanks in advance. > >Paul Besing Check out Living With Your PLane. They've got many designs on tap, as well as listings of folks that do the work. glen matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mitchell Goodrich" <mgoodrich(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Looking for hangar designer
Date: May 07, 2007
Paul, what part of the country? Mitchell Goodrich VEZE 60P -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of glen matejcek Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 7:25 AM Subject: RV-List: RE: Looking for hangar designer Hi Paul- >Hey all, I'm looking at building a hangar/condo/gameroom combination on an airstrip. Anyone know of a firm that specializes in this? > >Thanks in advance. > >Paul Besing Check out Living With Your PLane. They've got many designs on tap, as well as listings of folks that do the work. glen matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 07, 2007
From: Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Looking for hangar designer
Tucson, Arizona area. I've got an architect now, just looking for ideas and contractors who build this kind of thing. Paul Besing Mitchell Goodrich wrote: Paul, what part of the country? Mitchell Goodrich VEZE 60P -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of glen matejcek Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 7:25 AM Subject: RV-List: RE: Looking for hangar designer Hi Paul- >Hey all, I'm looking at building a hangar/condo/gameroom combination on an airstrip. Anyone know of a firm that specializes in this? > >Thanks in advance. > >Paul Besing Check out Living With Your PLane. They've got many designs on tap, as well as listings of folks that do the work. glen matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Joseph Larson <jpl(at)showpage.org>
Subject: Re: Texas Sales Tax Experimental Acft.
Date: May 07, 2007
As I understand it -- They want tax on the stuff you bought mail order. Minnesota does this. Theoretically anything I buy mail order I'm supposed to voluntarily pay use tax on it. No one does this, of course, but the state can go after you for the big stuff because it's worth their while. If you have receipts for any of the bits showing you paid sales taxes on any of it, you can use that to whittle down the amount of tax Texas will charge you. Maybe you bought some radios at Oshgosh, for instance. Remember that the cost of the airplane is: Cost of kit + cost of engine + cost of all those radios + cost of paint etc Market value of the airplane is rarely a huge amount more than the cost to build it. -Joe On May 7, 2007, at 10:26 AM, J. R. Dial wrote: > I do not know if this is going on in other > states but the state of Texas is sending out sales/use tax notices > on Experimental homebuilt aircraft. Has anybody else run into this > and how does the law apply on this. My plane has been registered > for several years but they are evidently searching FAA data bases > and trying to collect sales tax as if the plane was bought from > another person or they want tax on the materials used in the > construction of the plane. The guy I talked to indicated they want > tax on the value of the plane which means you would be paying tax > on your own labor? > > If anybody else has addressed this I would > appreciate how you handled it and what the law requires. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 07, 2007
Subject: [ Dave Saylor ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Dave Saylor Lists: RV-List,RV10-List Subject: RV-10 Big Oil Door http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Dave@aircraftersllc.com.05.07.2007/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 07, 2007
From: "Larry James" <larry(at)ncproto.com>
Subject: Garmin 496 - XM Antenna connector
I am installing a Garmin 496 in my Super Decathlon and the 90 degree connector for the XM Antenna has interference issues. The connector looks like a standard Mini-USB-B 5-Pin ; so I cut the cable expecting to splice on a cut cable from a standard Mini-USB-B cable. The XM Antenna cable is 5-conductor. I'm learning by trial and error that every Mini-USB-B cable I buy and cut is 4-conductor. Does anyone have any good answers ?? All I'm needing is a straight connector on my XM Antenna. Larry E. James Bellevue, WA Super Decathlon Rocket (under construction) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 07, 2007
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: Re: Garmin 496 - XM Antenna connector
Mine is close too. I'd call Garmin and ask. -- Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com On 5/7/07, Larry James wrote: > > I am installing a Garmin 496 in my Super Decathlon and the 90 degree > connector for the XM Antenna has interference issues. The connector looks > like a standard Mini-USB-B 5-Pin ; so I cut the cable expecting to splice on > a cut cable from a standard Mini-USB-B cable. > > > The XM Antenna cable is 5-conductor. I'm learning by trial and error that > every Mini-USB-B cable I buy and cut is 4-conductor. Does anyone have any > good answers ?? All I'm needing is a straight connector on my XM Antenna. > > > Larry E. James > > Bellevue, WA > > Super Decathlon > > Rocket (under construction) > > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Rice" <rice737(at)msn.com>
Subject: N64PR First Flight
Date: May 07, 2007
Thanks to all who have provided me with info on this site. Today I flew my RV8 with TMX-IO360 and Hartzell Constant speed prop for the first time. Flew straight and level hands off, no adjustments needed. The acceleration is amazing. Now on to the small finish items. Paul Rice ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JOHN HENLEY" <rv7plt(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Aero Classic Oil Cooler
Date: May 07, 2007
My oil cooler failed. Anyone have any idea who has the best price these days on Aero Classic coolers? John Henley, Rv7, 475 hrs _________________________________________________________________ Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon. http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglineapril07 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com>
Subject: Fuel selector structure
Date: May 07, 2007
Ok, I'm tired and I'm probably just missing this. However, I can't seem to see anything other than a general depiction on Drawing 32 (RV-6/6A) that shows how the F683 and F683b go together. (I hope I got the numbers right, I'm going from tired memory.) My F683b's don't look like that, but I can attach them to the front of the spar as shown. How is the F683 supposed to attach? In the Orndorff video, George just uses an angle to attach it to the front of the seat/floor pan and I didn't spot the F683b's at all. Help, please. Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - Plumbing the fuel and brake systems ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)suddenlink.net>
Subject: Re: Texas Sales Tax Experimental Acft.Texas Sales Tax Experimental
Acft.Texas Sales Tax Experimental Acft.
Date: May 08, 2007
I agree with Bruce (original message below) about providing no information about any purchases. I have read the actual Texas Comptroller letter to one RV-4 Builder and The first sentence of such letter states: "The Federal Aviation Administration's records reflect that you purchased and registered the above referenced aircraft." If I receive such a letter I will respond with a letter that says: "I received the enclosed letter and wish to inform you that I DID NOT purchase the aircraft you inquired about. I BUILT such aircraft and that is why it has as the type aircraft my name on such registration. While I did buy the RV-4 plans and some parts from Van's Aircraft, that was done back in ____ when I started building such airplane. I have reviewed the Tax Publication you sent to me and have consulted my attorney and do not believe that I owe either sales or use taxes on the airplane that I built." Russ Daves N710RV - Flying RV-10 Original Message from Bruce: Tax collectors have been know to use heavy handed and unlawful tactics before. My policy, and I've fought a few battles, is not to provide ANY information to the enemy. Tell them you're not subject to the tax, put the burden of proving you are on them, appeal any ruling up the chain of the taxing agency all the way to the courts, if necessary. If we all did this, they would soon tire and find some other complacent citizen to plunder. Bruce www.glasair.org ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Looking for hangar designer
Date: May 08, 2007
Hi Paul- >I wanted to see some plans, some pictures, etc, so I can communicate what I like >to my architect with pictures and other ideas. I'm soley using him for designing >the building to my needs. But, I'd like a good starting point, and it doesn't >seem that there are hangar/home type plans out there like there are home >plans. >I plan on finding a contractor myself, as my architect is on the other side of >the country. At the risk of beating a dead horse, the latest bound copy of the Living With Your PLane directory I have, which is several years old, has 30 floor plans in it. Many of them come with designer and / or builder info. There is a separate section with designer / builder ads. Then there is a fairly comprehensive listing of the airparks across the nation, as well as their details. The whole publication is now online (vs printed) at http://www.livingwithyourplane.com/ . As my particular industry has tanked I'm no longer a member or actively looking at airport homes, but I would strongly recommend this pub as a resource for anyone who is. FWIW, glen matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vince-Himsl" <vhimsl(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: N64PR First Flight
Date: May 08, 2007
You mean these garage queens will one day fly?! You have given me hope! Congratulations!!!! Vince Himsl Rv8(SB) - finish Moscow, ID _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rice Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 7:04 PM Subject: RV-List: N64PR First Flight Thanks to all who have provided me with info on this site. Today I flew my RV8 with TMX-IO360 and Hartzell Constant speed prop for the first time. Flew straight and level hands off, no adjustments needed. The acceleration is amazing. Now on to the small finish items. Paul Rice ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Tru Trak EFIS
From: "B25Flyer" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Date: May 08, 2007
All, I was in Springdale and Jim Younkin took me for a ride in the TT RV-9 and I got to fly the Tru Trak EFIS. The autopilot was not enabled and there were some other features that were not working because they were doing flight testing. The screen is INCREDIBLY bright. and the graphics are very bold with thick lines that are very easy to see. The EFIS is smooth as silk. I love my Dynon, but it jumps around in turbulence. The Tru Trak is rock solid smooth. the OVAL HSI looks goofy, but works great. it makes the area where the pointer is very large so the istrument flies like a 6" HSI. The entire unit is very intuitive and with little or no briefing someone should be able to jump in it and fly away. Again, what I flew was a prototype but it will be a really cool box. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=111555#111555 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 08, 2007
From: Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Looking for hangar designer
I just subscribed to it, and I must say I was dissapointed. The "floorplans" are nothing but sketches of some peoples home's that have been submitted. Not very much to go on as far as a library of plans you can actually use. I don't know if the bound version is any better, but the online version is not worth the money. Paul Besing glen matejcek wrote: Hi Paul- >I wanted to see some plans, some pictures, etc, so I can communicate what I like >to my architect with pictures and other ideas. I'm soley using him for designing >the building to my needs. But, I'd like a good starting point, and it doesn't >seem that there are hangar/home type plans out there like there are home >plans. >I plan on finding a contractor myself, as my architect is on the other side of >the country. At the risk of beating a dead horse, the latest bound copy of the Living With Your PLane directory I have, which is several years old, has 30 floor plans in it. Many of them come with designer and / or builder info. There is a separate section with designer / builder ads. Then there is a fairly comprehensive listing of the airparks across the nation, as well as their details. The whole publication is now online (vs printed) at http://www.livingwithyourplane.com/ . As my particular industry has tanked I'm no longer a member or actively looking at airport homes, but I would strongly recommend this pub as a resource for anyone who is. FWIW, glen matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 08, 2007
From: "Bill Gunn" <WGUNN(at)dot.state.tx.us>
Subject: Re: Texas Sales Tax Experimental Acft.
For Texas aircraft taxes, see the following: (Texas Comptroller home page) - upper right, search for *aircraft*. The Google search engine should show *Aircraft and the Texas Sales and Use Tax (TX 94-168)* dated March 2006 Bill Gunn, TxDOT Aviation Division ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 08, 2007
From: SCOTT SPENCER <aerokinetic(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Exhaust Gasket Installation Question
Some (including me) use silicone as a sealant around the blo-proof gaskets on the exhaust. It performs many functions and has no bad side-effects. Give them a healthy bead of almost any kind of silicone on both sides. Obviously the high-temp stuff sold as gasket sealant is probably best -but even the bathtub variety seems to be tolerant of high temps... just beware some are higher in acetic acid (which is why they are not recommended sometimes for use on aluminum). If it has a really strong vinegar smell then go get another variety. Anyhow... First, it holds the gaskets in place while the rest of the system goes up into place. Second, it lubricates the threads on the studs (smear a little extra all over the threads). Third, it seals any remaining leaks very well -and don't worry about the splooge inside the pipes -it will burn off and come out the pipes leaving the inside flush and smooth. Fourth, it will keep the nuts from loosening and protect them, and the studs from corrosion. (smear a little extra bead around the tightened nut) Fifth, it will make your life much easier when it comes time to take the exhaust system off again. Just put your socket up there over the siliconed nut/stud and start loosening. The stuff will be ground up and cleaned off as you (easily) remove the nut. The stuff is BEAUTIFUL for exhausts! Scott N4ZW (A&P FWIW -and did this on *many* airplanes I used to maintain) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Charles Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com>
Subject: Builder's Log Photos
Date: May 08, 2007
I am within days of getting my Air Worthiness Inspection. I have a pretty detailed builders log but NO photos of any kind. The fFAA AW Application Letter specifies log and photos. Has anybody applied for the inspection with no photos? Any comments from the feds? Charlie Brame RV-6A N11CB San Antonio ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: Builder's Log Photos
Date: May 08, 2007
I didn't have a builders log or photos and the Designate didn't even ask for it. Another person at the time told me I could just initial the plans where appropriate. Clearly becomes a matter of the inspector you use. A log may suffice. Maybe Mike R. can give better ideas. Tim > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Brame > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:34 AM > To: RV-List RV-List > Subject: RV-List: Builder's Log Photos > > > I am within days of getting my Air Worthiness Inspection. I have a > pretty detailed builders log but NO photos of any kind. > > The fFAA AW Application Letter specifies log and photos. > > Has anybody applied for the inspection with no photos? Any comments > from the feds? > > Charlie Brame > RV-6A N11CB > San Antonio > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 08, 2007
From: "Larry James" <larry(at)ncproto.com>
Subject: Garmin 496 - XM Antenna connector
Hi Larry and RV-List, So far no joy with Garmin. I've been trying to get Technical Support to pass me up to someone with the answers but evidently Garmin doesn't know anything about that antenna they sell and use. To answer another question about this; I am not using the AirGizmo mount - it uses too much height and its quality doesn't meet my standard. I have designed and built my own mounting and the interference of this USB connector is with the Garmin SL40 that resides right below the 496. My question and predicament remain. Does anyone know if all 5 wires in the Garmin GXM30A antenna are used ??? So far Garmin has been no help. Larry E. James Bellevue, WA Super Decathlon Rocket (under construction) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Andy Gold" <andygold(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Re: Builder's Log Photos
Date: May 08, 2007
The photos are to help prove to the inspector that you actually built the plane in order to get your repairman's certificate. Some inspectors would prefer to see them, some will be happy with you providing other ways to prove that you built at least 51% of it. Your log entrys should be plenty enough proof. In my experience, it just depends on who you are working with and how you get along with him. When I finished mine, I just had a few photos from early in the project, and very few from much past the wing kit. The inspector and I got along and it was no big deal. Andy Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Brame" <chasb(at)satx.rr.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 9:34 AM Subject: RV-List: Builder's Log Photos > > I am within days of getting my Air Worthiness Inspection. I have a pretty > detailed builders log but NO photos of any kind. > > The fFAA AW Application Letter specifies log and photos. > > Has anybody applied for the inspection with no photos? Any comments from > the feds? > > Charlie Brame > RV-6A N11CB > San Antonio > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Builder's Log Photos
Date: May 08, 2007
It depends on how friendly your AB-DAR is feeling that day. I've known builders who didn't have a log but none that didn't have photos. Call him before the inspection and ask. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Brame Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 11:34 AM Subject: RV-List: Builder's Log Photos I am within days of getting my Air Worthiness Inspection. I have a pretty detailed builders log but NO photos of any kind. The fFAA AW Application Letter specifies log and photos. Has anybody applied for the inspection with no photos? Any comments from the feds? Charlie Brame RV-6A N11CB San Antonio ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 08, 2007
From: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu>
Subject: Re: Garmin 496 - XM Antenna connector
Larry, I've had similar experience. The mini-USB extension cables I bought didn't work, which I presume is because they were only 4 wire. Wikipedia's article on USB shows (IIRC) that one of the mini-USB pins is normally not used. If you do find a solution I'd be interested in hearing about it. I don't like the interference associated with 90 degree XM connector on the 496. Tim -- Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) RV-6A N47TD -- 900 hrs RV-10 #40059 under construction Larry James wrote: > > Hi Larry and RV-List, > > So far no joy with Garmin. I've been trying to get Technical Support > to pass me up to someone with the answers but evidently Garmin doesn't > know anything about that antenna they sell and use. > > > > To answer another question about this; I am not using the AirGizmo > mount -- it uses too much height and its quality doesn't meet my > standard. I have designed and built my own mounting and the > interference of this USB connector is with the Garmin SL40 that > resides right below the 496. My question and predicament remain. > Does anyone know if all 5 wires in the Garmin GXM30A antenna are used > ??? So far Garmin has been no help. > > > > Larry E. James > > Bellevue, WA > > Super Decathlon > > Rocket (under construction) > > > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 08, 2007
From: Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Fuel selector structure
Patrick; You're right; this is one of those areas on the RV-6/6A where you are pretty much left on your own and the parts supplied may or may not match the plans. Have a look at <http://www.vansairforce.org/projects/okej/onephoto.cgi?Picture_0002.jpg> for how I did mine in the early stages and then <http://www.vansairforce.org/projects/okej/onephoto.cgi?Picture_0525.jpg> for the final configuration. My 683b's are held in place by the heads of the spar plate bolts. The 683 slides a bit to the rear to overhang the spar and then attaches with three or so AN470-4s on each side. At least that's the way I did it. I did not have anything connecting the 683bs to the cabin floor. In the end I deleted the vertical channel with the throttle and mixture, etc. and added a small half round plate to mount the manual trim cable. The removable parts of the seat pans overlap the fuel selector mounting and are notched to clear the F-683 and have a couple of screws going through in it. Try fitting the 683b sides to the 683 top first, clamp in place, adjust the angles to get the holes centered in the flanges and then back drill (carefully) through the spar bolt holes. Good luck and happy building. Jim Oke Wpg., MB RV-6A C-GKGZ Patrick Kelley wrote: > > Ok, Im tired and Im probably just missing this. However, I cant > seem to see anything other than a general depiction on Drawing 32 > (RV-6/6A) that shows how the F683 and F683b go together. (I hope I got > the numbers right, Im going from tired memory.) My F683bs dont look > like that, but I can attach them to the front of the spar as shown. > How is the F683 supposed to attach? In the Orndorff video, George just > uses an angle to attach it to the front of the seat/floor pan and I > didnt spot the F683bs at all. Help, please. > > Patrick Kelley RV-6A Plumbing the fuel and brake systems > > * > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 08, 2007
From: "Bob J." <rocketbob(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Garmin 496 - XM Antenna connector
Guys, Mouser has solderable Mini-USB-B plugs. I would just take a piece of Cat5 cable and make your own cable with these plugs. Part # is 806-KMBX-BPKITST30. USB cables have five pins but only four are used. I suspect Garmin is usin g the #4 pin for something else. Pins 2&3 are data, 1 is +5V and 5 is GND. #4 is normally not used. Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying F1 under const. On 5/8/07, Tim Lewis wrote: > > Larry, > > I've had similar experience. The mini-USB extension cables I bought > didn't work, which I presume is because they were only 4 wire. Wikipedia 's > article on USB shows (IIRC) that one of the mini-USB pins is normally not > used. > > If you do find a solution I'd be interested in hearing about it. I don't > like the interference associated with 90 degree XM connector on the 496. > > Tim > > -- > Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) > RV-6A N47TD -- 900 hrs > RV-10 #40059 under construction > > > Larry James wrote: > > Hi Larry and RV-List, > > So far no joy with Garmin. I've been trying to get Technical Support to > pass me up to someone with the answers but evidently Garmin doesn't know > anything about that antenna they sell and use. > > > To answer another question about this; I am not using the AirGizmo mount ' > it uses too much height and its quality doesn't meet my standard. I have > designed and built my own mounting and the interference of this USB > connector is with the Garmin SL40 that resides right below the 496. My > question and predicament remain. Does anyone know if all 5 wires in the > Garmin GXM30A antenna are used ??? So far Garmin has been no help. > > > Larry E. James > > Bellevue, WA > > Super Decathlon > > Rocket (under construction) > > > * > > > * > > * > =========== =========== =========== > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 08, 2007
From: Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Builder's Log Photos
He'll know in about 5 minutes if you built the plane or not. I've been told by many inspectors while doing research for KitLog, that the pictures are best for showing quality of work in things like wings before they were closed up. If you kept detailed logs with ALOT of pictures, chances are they'll thumb through a few and call it good. The detailed pictures really help later on when sharing with builders at fly ins, resale value, etc. The most important thing is, if you strayed from the plans in any way, and you can't show it outside the aircraft, be sure you have well documented photos to prove your modification would be airworthy and follows all standard construction practices. Paul Besing --------------------------------- Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Builder's Log Photos
Date: May 08, 2007
The paper should have said phots and/or builder's logs. Anymore, there are so many RV's around that most inspectors already know the airplane qualifi es under the 51% rule. All the builder's logs are for is usually proof tow ards the repairman's certificate. If you are using a DAR you are more like ly to need the builder's logs. If you are using an FAA inspector he may b e convinced enough that you did the work that he/she may not need the build er's log. I know that it only takes me about 10 minutes of inspection and talking to the builder to determine whether or not he did the work. Mike Robertson Das Fed > From: n616tb(at)btsapps.com> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: RE: RV-List : Builder's Log Photos> Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 10:43:03 -0500> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" > > I didn't have a bui lders log or photos and the Designate didn't even ask for> it. Another pers on at the time told me I could just initial the plans where> appropriate. C learly becomes a matter of the inspector you use. A log may> suffice.> > Ma ybe Mike R. can give better ideas.> Tim> > > -----Original Message-----> > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-> > server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Brame> > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10: 34 AM> > To: RV-List RV-List> > Subject: RV-List: Builder's Log Photos> > > I am within days of getting my Air Worthiness Inspection. I have a> > prett y detailed builders log but NO photos of any kind.> > > > The fFAA AW Appli cation Letter specifies log and photos.> > > > Has anybody applied for the inspection with no photos? Any comments> > from the feds?> > > > Charlie Br ==> > > _________________________________________________________________ Change is good. See what=92s different about Windows Live Hotmail. www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/default.html?locale=en-us&ocid=TX T_TAGLM_HMWL_reten_changegood_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 08, 2007
From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Aero Classic Oil Cooler (Get a SW)
Why? It failed in short order and you want another Aero Classic? I guess you could go to the company and demand a replacement. I would step up to real man's cooler a SW cooler. It may cost twice as much, but you get what you pay for. >From: "JOHN HENLEY" <rv7plt(at)hotmail.com> >Subject: Aero Classic Oil Cooler > >My oil cooler failed. Anyone have any idea who has the >best price these days on Aero Classic coolers? > >John Henley, Rv7, 475 hrs --------------------------------- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Medema" <doug.medema(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Compressor & Painting Questions
Date: May 08, 2007
I'm equipping my paint booth and have come up with some questions. I'm planning on buying the DeVilbiss FinishLine 3 HVLP spray gun. This gun takes more air than my little 2hp compressor can deliver so I'm going to buy a bigger one. I'm choosing between the Kobalt 60 gallon single stage from Lowes or the Husky Pro 60 gallon single stage from Home Depot. Both have 15 amp 230 volt motors. The Kobalt has better specs as far as SCFM is concerned. The pump has a cast iron case and cylinder (though the cylinder head appears to be aluminum). It is a single cylinder pump. The Husky Pro has a two cylinder compressor, but the cylinders are aluminum with supposedly an iron or steel sleeve. The Kobalt gives a noise rating of 76dBa which seems fairly quiet for a compressor of this size. Both cost $400. I would probably just choose the Kobalt, but there are some horror stories on the internet about problems with Kobalt compressors and getting them serviced. 1) Anybody out there have experience with either of these compressors? Things you like? Things you dislike? 2) My painting area is quite a ways away from where I have 230Volt power. I was originally planning to buy a 100 foot 10 gauge extension cord, cut off the ends, and wire it to the compressor and a plug that fits my 230 outlets. Those cords are almost $100 right now! I already have 100 feet of 3/8" I.D. air hose. Will I have any problems running an HVLP gun off 100 feet of air hose? 3) I could bring my old compressor into my paint booth and use it's 20 gallon tank as a more local air storage tank. Would this help any problems associated with using 100 feet of air hose? Thanks for your help. I'm getting close to starting the painting process! Doug Medema RV-6A N276DM Date: 5/8/2007 2:23 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 08, 2007
From: Garry LeGare <garry(at)versadek.com>
Subject: Unfourtunately it's time to sell my RV6
Health issues have restricted use of my "6" and finally have made it almost impossible to continue flying. It was completed in 2001 has 260 hr. TT with 190 SMOH on the 0360A3M with Electroair Ignition,new slick mag and a just overhauled Whirlwind 151 3 blade prop, Wolf air/oil separator Chrome Valve covers and intake tubes, Just annualed, and more CUSTOM FEATURES includes:--Center fuel tank(12.5 gal). All carbon fiber tilt canopy structure with special locking access door. Easy removable extended engine air snorkel. Carbon fiber extended vertical fin. Bonded on composite gear leg and intersection Fairing. Special ventilation and heater system with dual muffs, boots on all push rods including flaps and a custom air extractor, means you will be warm or cool, you decide. 3 density Temperfoam seats with lambs wool covering, Single Link tailwheel steering,Carbon fiber elevator intersection fairing, Vortex Generators, Baggage cover, heavy duty canopy cover, Special floor and cockpit insulation, and more. ELECTRICAL:- -B&C 40 amp alt and adjustable reg, 2 new B&C 12 Amp/Hr 400 CCA sealed bats with either or both switching. Over voltage protection, Port on panel for alternator diagnostics, battery charging port. Electric flaps, electric elevator and aileron trim, stabs, dual landing lights with wig wag setting and more. PANEL:--MicroAir transponder and dual MicroAir radios, intercom with built in noise canceling headsets(2) Rocky Mnt Uencoder & Umonitor for engine, ECI CHT/EGT analiser, ECI dual Fuel gauge, Bendix King color GPS, True Track auto pilot, AOA with voice warning, Dynon D10A Efis just factory upgraded, left side throttle/mixtue/prop, controls, G meter, Parking brake, Electonic ignition advance gauge, Sony FM/CD player, Glove box, Wood grain accents, and more It has always been hangered in dry climate area(last four years Paso Robles). The only thing she needs is a paint job,It has been primered since I first started flying. Yes, Laird you are right you should always paint BEFORE flying. This is my baby and I'm going to miss her, hoping to find her a good home. I'm posting it with you guys and the Matronics List before I go to Trade A Plane. So the big question is how much? Any help would be appreciated. Garry "Casper" LeGare ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jbker(at)juno.com" <jbker(at)juno.com>
Date: May 09, 2007
Subject: Re: Unfourtunately it's time to sell my RV6
Hi Gary, Sorry to hear that you are having health issues. Hope your's are similar to mine, not keeping me from doing the things I like to do, just can't get by an issue with cardiogists for medical certificate. I'm probably s elling my 9A this year and doing a 12 to keep from the hassle of 3rd cla ss. Will never forget your getting under Rutan's skin by doing the Q-2 in Ca nada! Bernie Kerr
Hi Gary,

Sorry to hear that you are having health issues. Hope your's are similar to mine, not keeping me from doing the things I like to do, jus t can't get by an issue with cardiogists for medical certificate. I'm pr obably selling my 9A this year and doing a 12 to keep from the hassle of 3rd class.

Will never forget your getting under Rutan's skin by doing the Q-2 in Canada!
Bernie Kerr

________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic2(at)starband.net>
Subject: Compressor & Painting Questions
Date: May 09, 2007
Its highly recommended to extend an air compressors range via hose, rather than wire. I believe the owners manual for most any compressor will tell you this. The most common hose size is 3/8, with 1/4 being the cheap stuff. If youre concerned about air flow, use 1/2 hose. You could go larger, but I doubt youd need it. 1/2 hose and fittings are fairly common. It sounds to me like either compressor you mentioned will be more than enough. I cant speak to the servicing of either compressor. brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Doug Medema Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 7:55 PM Subject: RV-List: Compressor & Painting Questions I'm equipping my paint booth and have come up with some questions. I'm planning on buying the DeVilbiss FinishLine 3 HVLP spray gun. This gun takes more air than my little 2hp compressor can deliver so I'm going to buy a bigger one. I'm choosing between the Kobalt 60 gallon single stage from Lowes or the Husky Pro 60 gallon single stage from Home Depot. Both have 15 amp 230 volt motors. The Kobalt has better specs as far as SCFM is concerned. The pump has a cast iron case and cylinder (though the cylinder head appears to be aluminum). It is a single cylinder pump. The Husky Pro has a two cylinder compressor, but the cylinders are aluminum with supposedly an iron or steel sleeve. The Kobalt gives a noise rating of 76dBa which seems fairly quiet for a compressor of this size. Both cost $400. I would probably just choose the Kobalt, but there are some horror stories on the internet about problems with Kobalt compressors and getting them serviced. 1) Anybody out there have experience with either of these compressors? Things you like? Things you dislike? 2) My painting area is quite a ways away from where I have 230Volt power. I was originally planning to buy a 100 foot 10 gauge extension cord, cut off the ends, and wire it to the compressor and a plug that fits my 230 outlets. Those cords are almost $100 right now! I already have 100 feet of 3/8" I.D. air hose. Will I have any problems running an HVLP gun off 100 feet of air hose? 3) I could bring my old compressor into my paint booth and use it's 20 gallon tank as a more local air storage tank. Would this help any problems associated with using 100 feet of air hose? Thanks for your help. I'm getting close to starting the painting process! Doug Medema RV-6A N276DM 2:23 PM PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: May 09, 2007
Subject: Compressor & Painting Questions
Two stage compressors are always better if you can do it but for most of us a single stage will be more than enough. Big thing is to get away from any oil less compressors as they are all garbage. CFM is the most importan t thing, especially if you are using an HVLP gun. More at higher pressure is always better. Look at the amperage of the motor (inrush and running) a nd get the appropriate sized wire for it rather than spending a bunch on a extension cord. 15amp = 14GA, 20amp=12GA, 30 amp=10GA, etc. Even at 100 feet 12GA is more than enough. I went with an IR compressor and it's served me very well so far. http://www.tractorsupply.com/detail.asp?pcID=1&paID=1010&sonID=469&pa ge=1&productID=28825 Michael Sausen -10 #352 Limbo From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matro nics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:42 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Compressor & Painting Questions Doug Medema wrote: I'm equipping my paint booth and have come up with some questions. I'm planning on buying the DeVilbiss FinishLine 3 HVLP spray gun. This gun takes more air than my little 2hp compressor can deliver so I'm going to buy a bigger one. I'm choosing between the Kobalt 60 gallon single stage from Lowes or the Husky Pro 60 gallon single stage from Home Depot. I'd stay away from single cykinder single stage compressors. they'll run a lot longer with the attendant noise .... whatever it is! Both have 15 amp 230 volt motors. The Kobalt has better specs as far as SCFM is concerned. The pump has a cast iron case and cylinder (though the cylinder head appears to be aluminum). It is a single cylinder pump. The Husky Pro has a two cylinder compressor, but the cylinders are aluminum with supposedly an iron or steel sleeve. The Kobalt gives a noise rating of 76dBa which seems fairly quiet for a compressor of this size. Both cost $400. I would probably just choose the Kobalt, but there are some horror stories on the internet about problems with Kobalt compressors and getting them serviced. 1) Anybody out there have experience with either of these compressors? Things you like? Things you dislike? No experience with either. I have a two stage 60 gal compressor from Home depot ..... around $350 a few years back. It's worked well with everything I've thrown at it. 2) My painting area is quite a ways away from where I have 230Volt power. I was originally planning to buy a 100 foot 10 gauge extension cord, cu t off the ends, and wire it to the compressor and a plug that fits my 230 outlets. Those cords are almost $100 right now! I already have 100 fe et of 3/8" I.D. air hose. Will I have any problems running an HVLP gun off 100 feet of air hose? Buy a 100' box of #10 romex. Hell of a lot cheaper than the extension cord and will work fine. 3) I could bring my old compressor into my paint booth and use it's 20 gallon tank as a more local air storage tank. Would this help any problems associated with using 100 feet of air hose? Actually, it will. The hose will stretch in size at full pressure, and the pressure will drop significantly in the first few seconds of paint sprayin g. The built-in regulator will help too. Thanks for your help. I'm getting close to starting the painting process! Well it's just my opinion, but I think you'll be far ahead of the game with the romex and the two stage compressor near your painting project. Linn Doug Medema RV-6A N276DM 2:23 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: N64PR First Flight
Date: May 09, 2007
Paul, CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!! Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A >From: "Paul Rice" <rice737(at)msn.com> >Subject: RV-List: N64PR First Flight >Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 22:03:44 -0400 > >Thanks to all who have provided me with info on this site. Today I flew my >RV8 with TMX-IO360 and Hartzell Constant speed prop for the first time. >Flew straight and level hands off, no adjustments needed. The acceleration >is amazing. Now on to the small finish items. > >Paul Rice _________________________________________________________________ See what youre getting intobefore you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PeterHunt1(at)aol.com
Date: May 09, 2007
Subject: Zanon XRX antenna position
I just purchased the Zaon XRX Portable Collision Avoidance System (PCAS) to add traffic awareness to my cockpit. With it connected to my Garmin 396 I want to move it (with its built in antenna) away from the recommended glareshield mounting. For those of you with experience my question is will the antenna work with it located other places such as below the glare shield or behind my tip-up roll bar or on my lap (as long as it is 6" from any obstacle)? It is a hard thing to test because it does not activate until you have climbed 200 feet and there must be another airplane nearby. I tried Zaon. They just moved their operation and, consequently, their technical service is down for a while. Pete in Clearwater RV-6, Sun 'n Fun 2006 Reserve Grand Champion Kit, 2007 Outstanding Aircraft Homebuilt. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 09, 2007
From: "Ian Jordan" <ian(at)twingles.com>
Subject: RE: Tru Trak EFIS
> Subject: RV-List: Tru Trak EFIS > From: "B25Flyer" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> > > > "The EFIS is smooth as silk. I love my Dynon, but > it jumps around in turbulence. The Tru Trak is rock solid smooth." That's because it's not an artificial horizon. It's a VSI and turn rate indicator. It will show you pitched down as you're stalling with your nose way above the horizon. It will look more stable because it's much less responsive and indicates something totally different than every other EFIS on the planet. The heading on it is GPS track so it only updates accurately once per second. > "The entire unit is very intuitive and with little or no briefing someone > should > be able to jump in it and fly away." > > Actually, it's not. It looks like it's an artificial horizon, but it's something totally different. Someone just jumping into the plane will assume it's a horizon and can get into some serious situations with it. It's going to be the one instrument in a plane that will require serious training so that people don't use it like they think they should based on all of their years of experiences with artificial horizons. The heading tape isn't magnetic so you can't fly ATC vectors with it, you can't use it for unusual attitude recovery like you would an AH, and it will show you banking as you slip. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "SteinAir, Inc." <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: RE: Tru Trak EFIS
Date: May 09, 2007
I don't have time to fully respond to this, but the information Ian provided below is just WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. I'll put more when I have a chance later. Cheers, Stein. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ian Jordan Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 10:14 AM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: RE: Tru Trak EFIS Subject: RV-List: Tru Trak EFIS From: "B25Flyer" < dougr(at)petroblend.com> "The EFIS is smooth as silk. I love my Dynon, but it jumps around in turbulence. The Tru Trak is rock solid smooth." That's because it's not an artificial horizon. It's a VSI and turn rate indicator. It will show you pitched down as you're stalling with your nose way above the horizon. It will look more stable because it's much less responsive and indicates something totally different than every other EFIS on the planet. The heading on it is GPS track so it only updates accurately once per second. "The entire unit is very intuitive and with little or no briefing someone should be able to jump in it and fly away." Actually, it's not. It looks like it's an artificial horizon, but it's something totally different. Someone just jumping into the plane will assume it's a horizon and can get into some serious situations with it. It's going to be the one instrument in a plane that will require serious training so that people don't use it like they think they should based on all of their years of experiences with artificial horizons. The heading tape isn't magnetic so you can't fly ATC vectors with it, you can't use it for unusual attitude recovery like you would an AH, and it will show you banking as you slip. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rtitsworth" <rtitsworth(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Zanon XRX antenna position
Date: May 09, 2007
I have a similar setup. My understanding is that the XRX needs a clear (unobstructed) view fwd (i.e. not "behind" the engine). I have not done any obstructed testing. Also FYI, I was having a hard time getting the garmin connection cable from Zaon. So I ordered a bare pigtail from Garmin https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=1083 for $27 and connected Garmin yellow to XRX db9 #2 and Garmin black to XRX db9 #5, Garmin must be updated to latest software, it works great! _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of PeterHunt1(at)aol.com Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 11:05 AM rv8-list(at)matronics.com; aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Zanon XRX antenna position I just purchased the Zaon XRX Portable Collision Avoidance System (PCAS) to add traffic awareness to my cockpit. With it connected to my Garmin 396 I want to move it (with its built in antenna) away from the recommended glareshield mounting. For those of you with experience my question is will the antenna work with it located other places such as below the glare shield or behind my tip-up roll bar or on my lap (as long as it is 6" from any obstacle)? It is a hard thing to test because it does not activate until you have climbed 200 feet and there must be another airplane nearby. I tried Zaon. They just moved their operation and, consequently, their technical service is down for a while. Pete in Clearwater RV-6, Sun 'n Fun 2006 Reserve Grand Champion Kit, 2007 Outstanding Aircraft Homebuilt. _____ See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George P. Tyler" <gptyler(at)metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: Unfourtunately it's time to sell my RV6
Date: May 09, 2007
That sounds like a great plane, do you have any pictures to post so we can get some idea how all these goodies go together? ----- Original Message ----- From: Garry LeGare To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:40 PM Subject: RV-List: Unfourtunately it's time to sell my RV6 Health issues have restricted use of my "6" and finally have made it almost impossible to continue flying. It was completed in 2001 has 260 hr. TT with 190 SMOH on the 0360A3M with Electroair Ignition,new slick mag and a just overhauled Whirlwind 151 3 blade prop, Wolf air/oil separator Chrome Valve covers and intake tubes, Just annualed, and more CUSTOM FEATURES includes:--Center fuel tank(12.5 gal). All carbon fiber tilt canopy structure with special locking access door. Easy removable extended engine air snorkel. Carbon fiber extended vertical fin. Bonded on composite gear leg and intersection Fairing. Special ventilation and heater system with dual muffs, boots on all push rods including flaps and a custom air extractor, means you will be warm or cool, you decide. 3 density Temperfoam seats with lambs wool covering, Single Link tailwheel steering,Carbon fiber elevator intersection fairing, Vortex Generators, Baggage cover, heavy duty canopy cover, Special floor and cockpit insulation, and more. ELECTRICAL:- -B&C 40 amp alt and adjustable reg, 2 new B&C 12 Amp/Hr 400 CCA sealed bats with either or both switching. Over voltage protection, Port on panel for alternator diagnostics, battery charging port. Electric flaps, electric elevator and aileron trim, stabs, dual landing lights with wig wag setting and more. PANEL:--MicroAir transponder and dual MicroAir radios, intercom with built in noise canceling headsets(2) Rocky Mnt Uencoder & Umonitor for engine, ECI CHT/EGT analiser, ECI dual Fuel gauge, Bendix King color GPS, True Track auto pilot, AOA with voice warning, Dynon D10A Efis just factory upgraded, left side throttle/mixtue/prop, controls, G meter, Parking brake, Electonic ignition advance gauge, Sony FM/CD player, Glove box, Wood grain accents, and more It has always been hangered in dry climate area(last four years Paso Robles). The only thing she needs is a paint job,It has been primered since I first started flying. Yes, Laird you are right you should always paint BEFORE flying. This is my baby and I'm going to miss her, hoping to find her a good home. I'm posting it with you guys and the Matronics List before I go to Trade A Plane. So the big question is how much? Any help would be appreciated. Garry "Casper" LeGare ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Tru Trak EFIS
Date: May 09, 2007
Be interested in your rebuttal, Stein, because from what is posted on the TruTrak Web page (below) it sure appears that pitch attitude is primarily based on vertical speed (gyro enhanced). Ed ----- Original MesADI Bank angle is instantaneous gyro data. Pitch is gyro enhanced vertical speed. Direction is an electronic DG showing track. Extreme bank angle is enunciated by flashing red arrows which indicate required stick motion to correct unusual attitude. Low airspeed warning is enunciated by flashing A-S on the display. Solid state rate gyros for pitch and roll. sage ----- From: SteinAir, Inc. To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 11:57 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Tru Trak EFIS I don't have time to fully respond to this, but the information Ian provided below is just WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. I'll put more when I have a chance later. Cheers, Stein. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ian Jordan Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 10:14 AM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: RE: Tru Trak EFIS Subject: RV-List: Tru Trak EFIS From: "B25Flyer" < dougr(at)petroblend.com> "The EFIS is smooth as silk. I love my Dynon, but it jumps around in turbulence. The Tru Trak is rock solid smooth." That's because it's not an artificial horizon. It's a VSI and turn rate indicator. It will show you pitched down as you're stalling with your nose way above the horizon. It will look more stable because it's much less responsive and indicates something totally different than every other EFIS on the planet. The heading on it is GPS track so it only updates accurately once per second. "The entire unit is very intuitive and with little or no briefing someone should be able to jump in it and fly away." Actually, it's not. It looks like it's an artificial horizon, but it's something totally different. Someone just jumping into the plane will assume it's a horizon and can get into some serious situations with it. It's going to be the one instrument in a plane that will require serious training so that people don't use it like they think they should based on all of their years of experiences with artificial horizons. The heading tape isn't magnetic so you can't fly ATC vectors with it, you can't use it for unusual attitude recovery like you would an AH, and it will show you banking as you slip. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Tru Trak EFIS
Date: May 09, 2007
Be interested in your rebuttal, Stein, because from what is posted on the TruTrak Web page (below) it sure appears that pitch attitude is primarily based on vertical speed (gyro enhanced). Ed ----- Original MesADI Bank angle is instantaneous gyro data. Pitch is gyro enhanced vertical speed. Direction is an electronic DG showing track. Extreme bank angle is enunciated by flashing red arrows which indicate required stick motion to correct unusual attitude. Low airspeed warning is enunciated by flashing A-S on the display. Solid state rate gyros for pitch and roll. sage ----- From: SteinAir, Inc. To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 11:57 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Tru Trak EFIS I don't have time to fully respond to this, but the information Ian provided below is just WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. I'll put more when I have a chance later. Cheers, Stein. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ian Jordan Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 10:14 AM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: RE: Tru Trak EFIS Subject: RV-List: Tru Trak EFIS From: "B25Flyer" < dougr(at)petroblend.com> "The EFIS is smooth as silk. I love my Dynon, but it jumps around in turbulence. The Tru Trak is rock solid smooth." That's because it's not an artificial horizon. It's a VSI and turn rate indicator. It will show you pitched down as you're stalling with your nose way above the horizon. It will look more stable because it's much less responsive and indicates something totally different than every other EFIS on the planet. The heading on it is GPS track so it only updates accurately once per second. "The entire unit is very intuitive and with little or no briefing someone should be able to jump in it and fly away." Actually, it's not. It looks like it's an artificial horizon, but it's something totally different. Someone just jumping into the plane will assume it's a horizon and can get into some serious situations with it. It's going to be the one instrument in a plane that will require serious training so that people don't use it like they think they should based on all of their years of experiences with artificial horizons. The heading tape isn't magnetic so you can't fly ATC vectors with it, you can't use it for unusual attitude recovery like you would an AH, and it will show you banking as you slip. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Compressor & Painting Questions
Date: May 09, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
There is a substantial pressure loss with length of hose and material constructed. Hard plumbing of the supply lines helps regardless of PVC, copper or steel supply lines. The reservoir capacity makes a difference in cycle time. Locating it away from the work area makes for a pleasant experience. I found a cost benefit in using 230VAC rather than another 115VAC run. But then, I went nuts and bought a twin Ingersoll Rand and thought I could hide it from my wife. Draining the tank is an important feature as well. Harbor Freight is offering disposable inline filters - Item 38159 for $2.99 (Save 2 bucks with an email coupon) through 5/12. John Cox ________________________________ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Meyette Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 7:21 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Compressor & Painting Questions It's highly recommended to extend an air compressor's range via hose, rather than wire. I believe the owner's manual for most any compressor will tell you this. The most common hose size is 3/8", with =BC" being the cheap stuff. If you're concerned about air flow, use =BD" hose. You could go larger, but I doubt you'd need it. =BD" hose and fittings are fairly common. It sounds to me like either compressor you mentioned will be more than enough. I can't speak to the servicing of either compressor. brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Doug Medema Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 7:55 PM Subject: RV-List: Compressor & Painting Questions I'm equipping my paint booth and have come up with some questions. I'm planning on buying the DeVilbiss FinishLine 3 HVLP spray gun. This gun takes more air than my little 2hp compressor can deliver so I'm going to buy a bigger one. I'm choosing between the Kobalt 60 gallon single stage from Lowes or the Husky Pro 60 gallon single stage from Home Depot. Both have 15 amp 230 volt motors. The Kobalt has better specs as far as SCFM is concerned. The pump has a cast iron case and cylinder (though the cylinder head appears to be aluminum). It is a single cylinder pump. The Husky Pro has a two cylinder compressor, but the cylinders are aluminum with supposedly an iron or steel sleeve. The Kobalt gives a noise rating of 76dBa which seems fairly quiet for a compressor of this size. Both cost $400. I would probably just choose the Kobalt, but there are some horror stories on the internet about problems with Kobalt compressors and getting them serviced. 1) Anybody out there have experience with either of these compressors? Things you like? Things you dislike? 2) My painting area is quite a ways away from where I have 230Volt power. I was originally planning to buy a 100 foot 10 gauge extension cord, cut off the ends, and wire it to the compressor and a plug that fits my 230 outlets. Those cords are almost $100 right now! I already have 100 feet of 3/8" I.D. air hose. Will I have any problems running an HVLP gun off 100 feet of air hose? 3) I could bring my old compressor into my paint booth and use it's 20 gallon tank as a more local air storage tank. Would this help any problems associated with using 100 feet of air hose? Thanks for your help. I'm getting close to starting the painting process! Doug Medema RV-6A N276DM 2:23 PM - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rtitsworth" <rtitsworth(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Tru Trak EFIS
Date: May 09, 2007
Ed, The prior discussion/post was about the TruTrak EFIS. You seem to be citing a reference to a different instrument - the ADI. I'm confused. Does the EFIS use the ADI??? Rick _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 1:02 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Tru Trak EFIS Be interested in your rebuttal, Stein, because from what is posted on the TruTrak Web page (below) it sure appears that pitch attitude is primarily based on vertical speed (gyro enhanced). Ed ----- Original Mes ADI Bank angle is instantaneous gyro data. Pitch is gyro enhanced vertical speed. Direction is an electronic DG showing track. Extreme bank angle is enunciated by flashing red arrows which indicate required stick motion to correct unusual attitude. Low airspeed warning is enunciated by flashing A-S on the display. Solid state rate gyros for pitch and roll. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 09, 2007
From: Sherman Butler <lsbrv7a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:N number requirements
Any recommendations for companies that provide vinyl N numbers? Sherman Butler RV-7a Wings Idaho Falls --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N67BT(at)aol.com
Date: May 09, 2007
Subject: Re:N number requirements
Try www.aerographics.com, good quality and very reasonably priced. Any recommendations for companies that provide vinyl N numbers? Bob Trumpfheller ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 10, 2007
From: Bob <panamared5(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re:N number requirements
>Any recommendations for companies that provide vinyl N numbers? Your local sign or T-shirt company. They can do any size and most styles (think really funky T-Shirts). Mine cost me about $10.00. It took about 30 minutes and a strong razor blade to take them off when I decided on a different design. Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re:N number requirements
Date: May 10, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Vince Frazier did outstanding vinyl work for me and was very reasonable in price. Dan N289DT RV10E _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sherman Butler Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 5:24 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Re:N number requirements Any recommendations for companies that provide vinyl N numbers? Sherman Butler RV-7a Wings Idaho Falls _____ Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos. <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html ; _ylc=X3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcn M -> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 10, 2007
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: AFS lead times
I just ordered an AF3400EM. Any reports on the lead time between order and arrival from Advanced Flight Systems? Thanks, Ralph ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Tru Trak EFIS
Date: May 10, 2007
My Oops then. No experience with either, just what I read on their web site. Perhaps carried the inference about pitch reference too far. But, still curious as to what pitch is referenced to. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: rtitsworth To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 3:48 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Tru Trak EFIS Ed, The prior discussion/post was about the TruTrak EFIS. You seem to be citing a reference to a different instrument - the ADI. I'm confused. Does the EFIS use the ADI??? Rick ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 1:02 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Tru Trak EFIS Be interested in your rebuttal, Stein, because from what is posted on the TruTrak Web page (below) it sure appears that pitch attitude is primarily based on vertical speed (gyro enhanced). Ed ----- Original Mes ADI Bank angle is instantaneous gyro data. Pitch is gyro enhanced vertical speed. Direction is an electronic DG showing track. Extreme bank angle is enunciated by flashing red arrows which indicate required stick motion to correct unusual attitude. Low airspeed warning is enunciated by flashing A-S on the display. Solid state rate gyros for pitch and roll. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 10, 2007
From: Jeff Dowling <shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Oxygen tank fittings
Anyone have a good option on purchasing the necessary fittings to connect my skyox tank to the big boys for refill? Shemp 6a > * > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Match Drilling QB Skins?
From: "jlfernan" <jlfernan(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: May 10, 2007
A short while ago I match drilled the middle top skin to my QB 9A fuse. The holes in the fuselage were already drilled out to #40 and dimpled by the fellas from the Phillipines. I noticed after I was done that some of the holes in the fuse were slightly enlarged. I'm theorizing that because the flat skin is sitting over a dimple, and we all have noticed that dimpling a hole makes it even larger, the drill bit may not be going straight thru. My question is, since all the parts are precisely prepunched, do you really need to match drill or can you just drill the skin to the correct size and then dimple it? Can I/should I drill the skin without clecoing it the fuse. Another reason for asking is that the skin got damaged in storage and I had to order another one. Now I fear enlarging the holes even more if I match drill again. I've emailed Vans twice earlier this week but have not heard anything. -------- Jorge Fernandez N214JL Reserved 9A QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112163#112163 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: May 10, 2007
Subject: Re: Oxygen tank fittings
In a message dated 5/10/2007 11:49:31 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net writes: Anyone have a good option on purchasing the necessary fittings to connect my skyox tank to the big boys for refill? ============================ If you know what you need Ted Shulgin probably has it. Check the Yeller Pages. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 844hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 10, 2007
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Match Drilling QB Skins?
Jorge, The only holes that seemed to have some alignment issues when I drilled my middle top skin were the holes where the skin overlapped the side skins. This would be the dimpled QB skins. Now since you've got the j-stringers drilled, I would final size the holes on the new skin and see how it fits clecoed on. Darrell --- jlfernan wrote: > > > A short while ago I match drilled the middle top > skin to my QB 9A fuse. The holes in the fuselage > were already drilled out to #40 and dimpled by the > fellas from the Phillipines. I noticed after I was > done that some of the holes in the fuse were > slightly enlarged. I'm theorizing that because the > flat skin is sitting over a dimple, and we all have > noticed that dimpling a hole makes it even larger, > the drill bit may not be going straight thru. My > question is, since all the parts are precisely > prepunched, do you really need to match drill or can > you just drill the skin to the correct size and then > dimple it? Can I/should I drill the skin without > clecoing it the fuse. Another reason for asking is > that the skin got damaged in storage and I had to > order another one. Now I fear enlarging the holes > even more if I match drill again. I've emailed Vans > twice earlier this week but have not heard anything. > > -------- > Jorge Fernandez > N214JL Reserved > 9A QB > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112163#112163 > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > Web Forums! > > > > > Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2007
From: Brian Cross <bcross2160(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Sam James Wheel Pants
Hi Folks I am in the process of ordering my finishing kit from Vans. I think my only outstanding question is in regard to whose wheel pants to use. I have read emails from you a few people that indicate that the Sam James wheel pants have reduced drag so more speed or better economy can be realized. I guess I am wondering if this is so, why you don't see more of them on all the RVs I have seen. Are they more difficult to install? Do the majority of people believe they are a worthwhile upgrade? Your facts & opinions are greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance. Brian Cross RV-8 #81844 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Sam James Wheel Pants
Date: May 11, 2007
I have the SJ wheelpants. They were the only two piece "pressure recovery" pants offered when I built my airplane. Back then, all you got was a set of directions and two tuna shaped wheelpants. No brackets, no pre-made cutouts, nothing except the pants themselves. I *believe* Van's sells a more complete product for about the same $$, and convenience sells. As far as performance differences go, I've never seen a head to head comparison between Van's current pants and the James pants. Something else to consider is that the geometry of the James pants makes it harder to get the recommended tire to wheelpant clearance around the cutout.. Kyle Boatright RV-6 N46KB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Cross" <bcross2160(at)rogers.com> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 10:27 PM Subject: RV-List: Sam James Wheel Pants > > Hi Folks > > I am in the process of ordering my finishing kit from Vans. I think my > only outstanding question is in regard to whose wheel pants to use. I > have read emails from you a few people that indicate that the Sam James > wheel pants have reduced drag so more speed or better economy can be > realized. > > I guess I am wondering if this is so, why you don't see more of them on > all the RVs I have seen. Are they more difficult to install? Do the > majority of people believe they are a worthwhile upgrade? > > Your facts & opinions are greatly appreciated! > > Thanks in advance. > > Brian Cross RV-8 #81844 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Hughes" <hawk(at)compuplus.net>
Subject: RV-9 Certified As E-LSA
Date: May 11, 2007
A current thread in Doug Reeve's VAF Forums (and a First-Flight report on Van's site) concerns the certification of an RV-9 in the ELSA Category. I can't find any reference to the mechanism of such a certification in the Final Rule on SP/LSA published by the FAA. Indeed, all the references I have run across support Ron Wanttaja's summary in his May 2005 'Kitplanes' article: "There are three basic ways an aircraft can receive an ELSA airworthiness certificate: (1) conversion of a former two-seat ultralight trainer (through early 2008), (2) construction of the aircraft from an ELSA kit or plans, and (3) conversion of an existing SLSA. It takes no FAA approval to put together an Ex/AB kit to sell to other builders. A potential ELSA manufacturer, however, must build a prototype aircraft, ensure it meets the LSA concensus standards, pass the FAA inspection and receive the SLSA certificate. At that point, the manufacturer can either begin producing ready-to-fly SLSAs or ELSA kits." Can anyone comment on this apparent discrepancy, particularly from the Fed side? Hawkeye Hughes RV-3 Skyote ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: May 12, 2007
Subject: Re: Sam James Wheel Pants
In a message dated 5/11/2007 9:31:48 PM Central Daylight Time, bcross2160(at)rogers.com writes: Your facts & opinions are greatly appreciated! >>> Awright- you asked! It has been reported not only here on the list for many years, but also from quite a few folks I have talked to that the wheelpants on an RV are mostly decorative- look nice but unintuitively do little to reduce drag. Most builders report that the primary speed improvement from f&glass comes from the gear leg fairings themselves, with little added speed increase after adding the pants. In my case, I saw about 9 mph increase with just the main leg fairings installed & perhaps another 2 mph increase from Van's pressure recovery pants, so if they appeal to your sense of esthetics more than Vans, I'd highly recommend them! Either way you go, f&glass is a pain in the a$$... Disclaimer: I haven't worn SJ pants, but I'm also an advocate of caveat emptor... Mark Phillips - RV-6A "Mojo" 400+ hrs and climbing _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Sam James Wheel Pants
Date: May 12, 2007
The last time this was discussed, Dick Martin said: Barry, I had Vans pants installed and flying first. I fitted Sam James pants and flew them. Inorder to determine the performance, which appeared to be faster, I reinstalled Vans pants and flew them and then removed them and flew the Sam James pants an hour later. The James pants were approx 5 knot faster +/- l knot.. Dick Martin RV8 N233M On 11 May 2007, at 22:51, Kyle Boatright wrote: > > > I have the SJ wheelpants. They were the only two piece "pressure > recovery" pants offered when I built my airplane. Back then, all > you got was a set of directions and two tuna shaped wheelpants. No > brackets, no pre-made cutouts, nothing except the pants themselves. > > I *believe* Van's sells a more complete product for about the same $ > $, and convenience sells. > > As far as performance differences go, I've never seen a head to > head comparison between Van's current pants and the James pants. > > Something else to consider is that the geometry of the James pants > makes it harder to get the recommended tire to wheelpant clearance > around the cutout.. > > Kyle Boatright > RV-6 N46KB > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Cross" > > To: > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 10:27 PM > Subject: RV-List: Sam James Wheel Pants > > >> >> Hi Folks >> >> I am in the process of ordering my finishing kit from Vans. I >> think my only outstanding question is in regard to whose wheel >> pants to use. I have read emails from you a few people that >> indicate that the Sam James wheel pants have reduced drag so more >> speed or better economy can be realized. >> >> I guess I am wondering if this is so, why you don't see more of >> them on all the RVs I have seen. Are they more difficult to >> install? Do the majority of people believe they are a worthwhile >> upgrade? >> >> Your facts & opinions are greatly appreciated! >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> Brian Cross RV-8 #81844 >> >> >> >> >> >> > > Kevin Horton Ottawa, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2007
From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Sam James Wheel Pants
I think IMHO your 9mph for gear leg sounds high and 2 mph sounds low for wheel pants (pressure recovery type, right?), but fine, I don't want to debate that. But............... Think about this, you got 2 mph more at basically 9 mph faster, which is harder to do. In other words if you put the wheel pants on first along you might have got 3 or 4 mph more. Lets say its harder going from 189 to 191 mph than 180 to 182 mph. Its pretty easy to research the web for the gain the fairings give, but there is no doubt the wheel pants are not decorative at 200 mph. I agree legs probably do get you a little more wheel fairings . Van's test and writing showed he gained several MPH over the old wheel pants he offered about 8 or so years ago verses the current PR wheel fairing? So there is gain with PR wheel fairings. Sam James should be same or slightly better than Vans' PR. SJ does not make claims, but I like the look better for a tail dragger. If trike go with vans, since it matches nose fairing. Also lack of performance gain may be from from not putting them on properly. Not saying that is the case, just that alignment and excessive gaps can cause the gain to be minimized. I saw your workmanship Mark, excellent so that is not the case, just saying. Cheers George From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Sam James Wheel Pants Awright- you asked! It has been reported not only here on the list for many years, but also from quite a few folks I have talked to that the wheelpants on an RV are mostly decorative- look nice but unintuitively do little to reduce drag. Most builders report that the primary speed improvement from f&glass comes from the gear leg fairings themselves, with little added speed increase after adding the pants. In my case, I saw about 9 mph increase with just the main leg fairings installed & perhaps another 2 mph increase from Van's pressure recovery pants, so if they appeal to your sense of esthetics more than Vans, I'd highly recommend them! Either way you go, f&glass is a pain in the a$$... Disclaimer: I haven't worn SJ pants, but I'm also an advocate of caveat emptor... Mark Phillips - RV-6A "Mojo" 400+ hrs and climbing _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/) --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karl Ahamer" <kahamer(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: VA-183 Governor bracket
Date: May 12, 2007
Hi all, Mounted the MT Governor and VA-183 governor bracket to my O-360A-1-A today and noticed that the bracket is obstructing the the oil to cooler outlet on the engine. A 45 degree nipple is installed there,which points down a bit to the left (as seen from behind the engine).The only way I think it could work is to turn the nipple about 180 degrees to face upwards. The archives have something on this bracket,but not related to the oil line . Wonder if someone else had this problem. Regards Karl Ahamer 7A near Sydney/Australia 11/05/2007 7:34 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: VA-183 Governor bracket
Date: May 12, 2007
Karl, I had the same problem on an XP360 A1A. A straight fitting is too close to the oil filter. Ken at Vans sent me a picture and said "do something like this", meaning cut and trim. I was a little leery because of the size of the notch I had to cut out so I welded a piece of scrap steel along the bottom to make sure it was still solid. Probably not necessary. BTW, "I" really means "a friend" welded the brace on the bracket. Hope this helps. Bill S 7a engine Arkansas _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Ahamer Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 6:53 AM Subject: RV-List: VA-183 Governor bracket Hi all, Mounted the MT Governor and VA-183 governor bracket to my O-360A-1-A today and noticed that the bracket is obstructing the the oil to cooler outlet on the engine. A 45 degree nipple is installed there,which points down a bit to the left (as seen from behind the engine).The only way I think it could work is to turn the nipple about 180 degrees to face upwards. The archives have something on this bracket,but not related to the oil line . Wonder if someone else had this problem. Regards Karl Ahamer 7A near Sydney/Australia 11/05/2007 7:34 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2007
From: "Greg Williams" <mr.gsun(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Performance Chart
I'm flying a 1160 lb RV-7 with Hartzell Blended Airfoil Constant Speed Prop, Aerosport IO-360 180 hp engine, Lightspeed Ignition with wheelpants & standard fairings installed. Does anyone have a similar plane with verified performance numbers? I don't believe the original builder's RPM vs MP vs GPH numbers. Thanks, Greg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com>
Subject: Fuel Selector Bracket
Date: May 12, 2007
Thanks to all who responded; I cooked up a solution. I just wanted to be sure I hadn't missed some critical spot on the plans. Moving forward . PatK - RV-6A - Wings back off *sigh* so I can finish the fairing attachments. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2007
From: Reuven Silberman <pilots2(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Performance Chart
Greg, Got almost the same setup in a 7A but with mags. We had the same questions a year and a half ago. Called Lycoming and had them send an 8 1/2" by 11" power chart (the original is a 5 x 8 sheet that is all but unreadable and unuseable) for an IO360 and used that to start with. Would have no clue on how the Lightspeed would affect the power chart. We use 22" at 2400 rpm and I believe that is around 75% and the fuel flow gauge reads 10gph. Can obviously get it down lower if we use 20" or even 18" for sigh-seeing cruse. The bottom line is that you are pretty much on your own to figure the power setting out. Reuven Silberman NWT Greg Williams wrote: I'm flying a 1160 lb RV-7 with Hartzell Blended Airfoil Constant Speed Prop, Aerosport IO-360 180 hp engine, Lightspeed Ignition with wheelpants & standard fairings installed. Does anyone have a similar plane with verified performance numbers? I don't believe the original builder's RPM vs MP vs GPH numbers. Thanks, Greg "No pressure, no diamonds". ~Thomas Carlyle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Performance Chart
Date: May 12, 2007
On 12 May 2007, at 15:40, Greg Williams wrote: > I'm flying a 1160 lb RV-7 with Hartzell Blended Airfoil Constant > Speed Prop, Aerosport IO-360 180 hp engine, Lightspeed Ignition > with wheelpants & standard fairings installed. Does anyone have a > similar plane with verified performance numbers? I don't believe > the original builder's RPM vs MP vs GPH numbers. The RPM vs MP vs GPH relationship should be independent of the prop, aircraft model and weight. What RPM vs MP vs GPH numbers does the original builder quote, and what do you think they should be? What leaning technique are you using? What altitude and temperature did you use for your testing? How accurate is your fuel flow indicator, based on the errors in fuel needed to fill the tanks after a flight? Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2007
From: "Greg Williams" <mr.gsun+rv-list(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Performance Chart
Hey, Thank you. It's better than what I've got now, I think. I'll try your numbers and see what happens. I would like to figure it out but don't really know where to start. The chart that I was given reads as below: *Cruise Performance at 8,000':* *KIAS* *RPM* *MAP* *Fuel Flow* *% Power* 168 2550 22.5 10.1 GPH 75% 161 2350 22.5 8.5 GPH 65% 150 2400 20.0 6.8 GPH 55% What do you think? I can't get anywhere near 168 KIAS with these 75% power settings. Greg On 5/12/07, Reuven Silberman wrote: > > Greg, > > Got almost the same setup in a 7A but with mags. We had the same questions > a year and a half ago. Called Lycoming and had them send an 8 1/2" by 11" > power chart (the original is a 5 x 8 sheet that is all but unreadable and > unuseable) for an IO360 and used that to start with. Would have no clue on > how the Lightspeed would affect the power chart. We use 22" at 2400 rpm and > I believe that is around 75% and the fuel flow gauge reads 10gph. Can > obviously get it down lower if we use 20" or even 18" for sigh-seeing > cruse. The bottom line is that you are pretty much on your own to figure > the power setting out. > > Reuven Silberman > NWT > > *Greg Williams * wrote: > > I'm flying a 1160 lb RV-7 with Hartzell Blended Airfoil Constant Speed > Prop, Aerosport IO-360 180 hp engine, Lightspeed Ignition > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2007
From: "Greg Williams" <mr.gsun+rv-list(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Performance Chart
Kevin, Thanks for the info. I just posted the chart I was given. I've tried it recently at 8000 ft. It was 36 deg F outside. I leaned it until RPM dropped a bit then back up just a tad (very unscientific, I agree). The EGT temp readouts are kind of slow to change so I haven't yet got "rich of peak" figured out. The engine seems to run just fine at the settings I've been given. Just doesn't agree with IAS numbers or GPS numbers on a calm day. Appreciate your expertise. Greg On 5/12/07, Kevin Horton wrote: > > > On 12 May 2007, at 15:40, Greg Williams wrote: > > > I'm flying a 1160 lb RV-7 with Hartzell Blended Airfoil Constant > > Speed Prop, Aerosport IO-360 180 hp engine, Lightspeed Ignition > > with wheelpants & standard fairings installed. Does anyone have a > > similar plane with verified performance numbers? I don't believe > > the original builder's RPM vs MP vs GPH numbers. > > > The RPM vs MP vs GPH relationship should be independent of the prop, > aircraft model and weight. > > What RPM vs MP vs GPH numbers does the original builder quote, and > what do you think they should be? What leaning technique are you > using? What altitude and temperature did you use for your testing? > How accurate is your fuel flow indicator, based on the errors in fuel > needed to fill the tanks after a flight? > > Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) > Ottawa, Canada > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: May 13, 2007
Subject: Re: Performance Chart
In a message dated 5/12/2007 8:33:02 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mr.gsun+rv-list(at)gmail.com writes: Cruise Performance at 8,000': KIAS RPM MAP Fuel Flow % Power 168 2550 22.5 10.1 GPH 75% 161 2350 22.5 8.5 GPH 65% 150 2400 20.0 6.8 GPH 55% What do you think? I can't get anywhere near 168 KIAS with these 75% power settings. ================================================== My 6A is pretty much in agreement with this data. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 845hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2007
From: Reuven Silberman <pilots2(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Performance Chart
Greg, Should have added additional info. At 24" / 2400 we consistantly true out at 180K above 5,000 ft. Obviously the gas consumption is wallet busting. At 22" / 2400 we consistantly get 170K true at the prev mentioned 10gph. 20" / 2400 gets in the 160 - 165K range and a more reasonable 8 to 9 gph. Reuven Greg Williams wrote: Hey, Thank you. It's better than what I've got now, I think. I'll try your numbers and see what happens. I would like to figure it out but don't really know where to start. The chart that I was given reads as below: Cruise Performance at 8,000': KIAS RPM MAP Fuel Flow % Power 168 2550 22.5 10.1 GPH 75% 161 2350 22.5 8.5 GPH 65% 150 2400 20.0 6.8 GPH 55% What do you think? I can't get anywhere near 168 KIAS with these 75% power settings. Greg On 5/12/07, Reuven Silberman wrote: Greg, Got almost the same setup in a 7A but with mags. We had the same questions a year and a half ago. Called Lycoming and had them send an 8 1/2" by 11" power chart (the original is a 5 x 8 sheet that is all but unreadable and unuseable) for an IO360 and used that to start with. Would have no clue on how the Lightspeed would affect the power chart. We use 22" at 2400 rpm and I believe that is around 75% and the fuel flow gauge reads 10gph. Can obviously get it down lower if we use 20" or even 18" for sigh-seeing cruse. The bottom line is that you are pretty much on your own to figure the power setting out. Reuven Silberman NWT Greg Williams wrote: I'm flying a 1160 lb RV-7 with Hartzell Blended Airfoil Constant Speed Prop, Aerosport IO-360 180 hp engine, Lightspeed Ignition "No pressure, no diamonds". ~Thomas Carlyle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: May 13, 2007
Subject: Re: VA-183 Governor bracket
In a message dated 5/12/2007 6:56:07 AM Central Daylight Time, kahamer(at)bigpond.net.au writes: The only way I think it could work is to turn the nipple about 180 degrees to face upwards. >>> On my current project with Aerosport IO-360-M1 I had the same situation- the 45 deg fitting from the oil outlet on the accessory housing points down, and a 45 deg fitting on the hose pointed toward the cooler nicely clears the governor bracket. I'm pretty sure this is also documented on the Checkoweb, see _http://rvproject.com/search.html_ (http://rvproject.com/search.html) and do a search for oil hose. >From The PossumWorks in TN Mark - RV-6A "Mojo" ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dave Cudney <yenduc(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: training
Date: May 13, 2007
On May 12, 2007, at 7:42 PM, Reuven Silberman wrote: > Reuven: I've been trying to contact you for some transition training. I lost your card with your email and phone numbers. Please contact me off line. Thanks Dave cell phone (951) 255 4880 > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2007
From: "Randy Garrett" <rgarrett7(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Builders in Fayetteville, NC
Help! I landed out Fayetteville, NC (FAY) tonight and found my charging system has gone kaput. I highly suspect the alternator. I wondered whether there were any builders on the field who might let me use their hangar and tools to diagnose and repair. Many thanks and sorry to post to so many people who are nowhere near Fayetteville. Randy RV-6A 750 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "angie vick" <gilbey(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Builders in Fayetteville, NC
Date: May 13, 2007
randy/iif you still need help in fayetteville call me at 910-6243529, frank goggio rv6a ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2007
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Builders in Fayetteville, NC
North Carolina Fayetteville - Hanson,Anthony Anthony is in FAY. I've got a number for him. Maybe Anthony can locate or find assistance for you. Darrell --- Randy Garrett wrote: > Help! I landed out Fayetteville, NC (FAY) tonight > and found my charging > system has gone kaput. I highly suspect the > alternator. > > I wondered whether there were any builders on the > field who might let me use > their hangar and tools to diagnose and repair. > > Many thanks and sorry to post to so many people who > are nowhere near > Fayetteville. > > Randy > RV-6A > 750 hours > http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Randy
Date: May 13, 2007
Randy, I did a quick check of Van's white pages and this was the only name that I found in Fayetteville You might try giving them a call North Carolina Fayetteville Hanson,Anthony/Sara 910.484.8512 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Randy
Date: May 13, 2007
Randy, I did a quick check of Van's white pages and this was the only name that I found in Fayetteville You might try giving them a call North Carolina Fayetteville Hanson,Anthony/Sara 910.484.8512 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "angie vick" <gilbey(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Builders in Fayetteville, NC
Date: May 13, 2007
randy, 910-6243529,i am in fayetteville, frank goggio rv6a ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Performance Chart
Date: May 13, 2007
Just for reference, if you are leaned to best power, the Lycoming power charts for the 200 hp IO-360-A says that 2400 rpm and 22" at 8000 ft gives 69% power at standard temperature. If you have a 180 hp parallel valve O-360-A (and I assume that the parallel valve 180 hp IO-360-Bs would be similar to the O-360), the same rpm and MP gives 75% power. It is interesting that at 8000 ft, for the same rpm and MP, the 200 hp angle valve engine makes less power than the 180 hp parallel valve engine if the rpm is less than about 2350. Once the rpm is up, the angle valve engine breaths better, and it makes more power than the parallel valve one. If your 180 hp parallel valve engine is leaned to best power at 8000 ft, on a standard day, 2550 and 22.5" = 144 hp (80%) 2350 and 22.5" = 138 hp (77%) 2400 and 20" = 120 (67%) If you leaner than best power mixture (as defined in the Lycoming Operators Manual), then the power will be a bit less than that. If you are running lean of peak, I think your specific fuel consumption would be somewhere in the range of 0.45 lb/hr per hp. Avgas weighs 6 lb/USG. So, you can multiply the fuel flows (in USG/ hr) by 6/0.45 (=13.3) to get an approximate power in hp. Or, looked at another way, if you have a a 180 hp engine, and you want 75% power (135 hp), find a power setting that gives around 135/13.3 = 10.1 USG/ hr (only valid if mixture is leaner than mixture for best power). This won't work if your mixture is richer than the mixture for best power, as in this case not all the fuel is being burnt, and the SFC will vary as the mixture varies. Note: the exact SFC to expect varies depending on which reference you read. Pick the reference you believe, and adjust the above numbers to suit). Kevin Horton Ottawa, Canada On 12 May 2007, at 23:30, Greg Williams wrote: > Hey, Thank you. It's better than what I've got now, I think. > I'll try your numbers and see what happens. I would like to figure > it out but don't really know where to start. The chart that I was > given reads as below: > > > Cruise Performance at 8,000': > > KIAS > > RPM > > MAP > > Fuel Flow > > % Power > > 168 > > 2550 > > 22.5 > > 10.1 GPH > > 75% > > 161 > > 2350 > > 22.5 > > 8.5 GPH > > 65% > > 150 > > 2400 > > 20.0 > > 6.8 GPH > > 55% > > > What do you think? > > I can't get anywhere near 168 KIAS with these 75% power settings. > > Greg > > > On 5/12/07, Reuven Silberman wrote: Greg, > > Got almost the same setup in a 7A but with mags. We had the same > questions a year and a half ago. Called Lycoming and had them send > an 8 1/2" by 11" power chart (the original is a 5 x 8 sheet that is > all but unreadable and unuseable) for an IO360 and used that to > start with. Would have no clue on how the Lightspeed would affect > the power chart. We use 22" at 2400 rpm and I believe that is > around 75% and the fuel flow gauge reads 10gph. Can obviously get > it down lower if we use 20" or even 18" for sigh-seeing cruse. > The bottom line is that you are pretty much on your own to figure > the power setting out. > > Reuven Silberman > NWT > > Greg Williams wrote: I'm flying a 1160 lb RV-7 > with Hartzell Blended Airfoil Constant Speed Prop, Aerosport IO-360 > 180 hp engine, Lightspeed Ignition ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Hansen" <jerry-hansen(at)cox.net>
Subject: Where's the answer?
Date: May 13, 2007
Where's the answer? Most people won't build... --------------------------------------------- Up, Up and ... Never Mind By <http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/w/matthew_l_wald /index.html?inline=nyt-per> MATTHEW L. WALD Smoketown, Pa. MATTHEW W. PHELPS was a natural candidate for flying lessons. A computer system administrator, he liked anything technical. He had a brother who had a plane and wrote about aviation for a magazine. And from the moment he got behind the controls, at a small airport north of Boston, he enjoyed himself. "I liked it a lot," he said. "It was fun, it was exhilarating." But Mr. Phelps, 42, embodies all the promise and crisis of general aviation. He gave up after 15 hours of lessons, probably about a quarter of the way to earning his license. "At that point, I'd met my future wife and we were starting to save for the wedding, and then to buy a house, and then there was something else to save money for," he said. That was in 1993. "I'm still sort of dreaming that it might get done, I just put it on hold," he said. Once, nearly every boy had the idea that he would slip the surly bonds of earth and dance the skies on laughter-silvered wings, as John Gillespie Magee Jr., a pilot in the Canadian Air Force, wrote in 1941. Plenty of people still go to school hoping for a job at the airlines flying the big jets, but experts fear that the hobbyist, who flies as an alternative to golf or boating, or perhaps to take the family 100 miles to a beach or maybe just an obscure restaurant, is disappearing. The number of student pilots is down by about a third since 1990, from 129,000 to 88,000. The number of private pilots is down from 299,000 to 236,000, according to statistics kept by the Federal Aviation Administration. And they are aging. Some longtime private pilots fear that an industry is withering, and a bit of Americana is slipping away, along with a bit of freedom and joy. And it is happening in part because of lack of interest; Walter Mitty doesn't want to fly anymore. The industry has recently launched a major campaign to lure people like Mr. Phelps back, and to recruit new students. But something has changed. "It's not a Gen X kind of thing," said Paul Quinn, 62, with a smile, as he fueled up his 1942-vintage Army Air Corps trainer at the tiny airport in Smoketown, Pa. Sitting at the picnic tables overlooking the single runway, a variety of students, pilots and sightseers had gathered in the warm sun. Most, like Mr. Quinn, had gray hair. "Most of the people who are out here are in their 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s," he said. Ironically, an increasingly technological society is turning its back on a high- technology pastime. One problem is fear, in an era when people describe their cars by the number of airbags, not the number of horses. In small planes, the statistics show that fatal accidents per 100,000 hours of flight fell by one-quarter in the decade ending in 2004, but some people in aviation fear that tolerance for risk is falling even faster. ANOTHER is the shift of income and family decision-making to women. Industry leaders try hard not to sound like a former president of Harvard and attribute anything to innate skill, but women simply do not take up flying as frequently as men do. "There's been a big sociological and psychological change in the families of today, in where the discretionary dollars go," said Phil Boyer, president of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association. When the husband told the stay-at-home mom of the 1950s that he was going to spend a Saturday afternoon taking flying lessons, she acquiesced, he said. Today, he said, in a two-income family, she is more likely to say: "You are not. That's your day to take Johnny to the soccer game, and what the heck are you doing spending our hard-earned money on flying lessons?" Mr. Boyer's association is trying hard to make flying more appealing to women, including offering training in how to read aviation maps, talk on the radio and provide other help in the plane, and maybe transitioning them to earning a license themselves. But 95 percent of the students are still male, he said. At the airport in Smoketown, Matt Kauffman, the chief flight instructor at Aero- Tech Services, the only flight school here, said that the training system had not adapted itself to women. "Women learn differently from men," Mr. Kauffman said. "If two men go up, they will scream and shout, and a transfer of knowledge occurs, and we'd get back on the ground and go have a beer, and life is good," he said. "If you yell at a woman, she'd start crying, and she'd never come back." He would like to hire a female flight instructor but can't find one, he said. Time and money drive others away. The prospect of taking months to earn a pilot's license is less appealing now. It is also expensive, $5,000 to $7,000. Renting even a tiny two-seat plane runs $75 an hour, and an instructor, $40 an hour or so. Fuel costs money, too, but its recent price increase is not a major consideration, because small planes burn only six to seven gallons an hour. David Ehrenstein got his pilot's license in graduate school in the early 1990s, at the <http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/univers ity_of_illinois/index.html?inline=nyt-org> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. "I'm a little bit of a closet technie nerd," he said. He liked flying because "there's a bunch of technology involved," and that using it "to do this great cool thing was exciting." But he had to give it up when he moved to Washington about three years later. "My impression is that when people grow up and have kids, they no longer have time to fly," said Mr. Ehrenstein, now 40. "When I quit, the major demographic of pilots was retired white guys." Even people with money find flying a guilty pleasure. Ron Janis, a lawyer in New York who specializes in mergers and acquisitions, wants his license so he can fly to a house he and his wife bought in Provincetown, Mass. And he loves to fly. But, he said: "I certainly work longer hours than when I started. And I do get in trouble with my firm for taking this time off" to fly. The attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, did not help, nor did the crash deaths of prominent private pilots like <http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/cory_lidle/ind ex.html?inline=nyt-per> Cory Lidle or <http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/k/john_f_jr_kenn edy/index.html?inline=nyt-per> John F. Kennedy Jr. Nor did the bumbling flight of two men from Smoketown into the District of Columbia in May 2005, in a two-seat Cessna, that paralyzed the federal government. "We'll be paying for that for years," said Mr. Kauffman, the flight instructor. (The men were not his students and it was not his plane, he quickly pointed out.) Mr. Kauffman said his business has held constant, mostly because his only competitor went out of business last year. Indeed, airports like this one show signs of stagnation. At any general aviation airport, the cars in the parking lot are usually new but the planes on the field have vintages more like the taxis in Havana. They are all well maintained, some private pilots say, but carburetors are still in common use. Vern Raburn, the president and chief executive of Eclipse Aviation, which is seeking to sell a new generation of tiny jets for general aviation use, observed in a speech that the Beechcraft Bonanza is now 60 years old. "I challenge you to find another industry in the world today that celebrates building 60-year-old products," he said. But Mr. Raburn's product costs over $1.5 million, and thus is not likely to revitalize the lower end of the spectrum. Some industry executives say the reason is that America is no longer a do-it- yourself, take-charge society, and that includes fly-it-yourself. Mr. Boyer's group, the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, tried putting ads on the cable TV channels that run do-it-yourself home improvement and electronics programs. The campaign did not work very well, he said. Now his organization has a new marketing campaign, Project Pilot, with a smoothly produced video narrated by Erik Lindbergh, grandson of Charles, who flew the Atlantic solo in 1927 and electrified the world of aviation. "It gives me a rush every time I go up," he says on the DVD. But he adds: "Just as my grandfather's flight created a huge interest in flying, we need to create that same groundswell today. We need a new generation of general aviation pilots, because without more pilots, even A.O.P.A. can't keep general aviation strong, and that will ultimately have a big effect on every pilot." BUT some veterans fear the magic is gone for good. Men who returned from World War II having seen the Mustangs, Corsairs or Thunderbolts might have wanted to fly their own propeller planes. In the wars in the Middle East, the A-10 Warthog has not inspired the same ambitions. The <http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/f/federal _aviation_administration/index.html?inline=nyt-org> F.A.A. last year introduced a new kind of license, sport pilot, to try to lower the barriers to entry and draw more people in. The license limits the pilot to very small planes, and, at first, daytime flying, and staying within 50 miles. It also requires fewer hours, and costs about half as much to get. Many flight instructors say the license is so limited that there is no reason to bother. Hal Shevers, who owns a flight school near Cincinnati, is pushing his students to get the license. With it, he said, "I can take my mom and dad or wife and kids up on a nice afternoon or sunny Sunday, and show them the sights." "I can show them a sunset, a sunrise." But to work, some people in the industry say, it will require a major manufacturer to build a new class of plane, one that can be sold for less than $100,000, and insured for less, so it will be less expensive to rent. To be able to offer cut-rate prices for the new sport license, Mr. Kauffman went looking for a small, simple, inexpensive airplane. He ended up with an Aeronca Champion, which was built in 1946. So far, nobody is building a new plane to match the F.A.A.'s program. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2007
From: "Randy Garrett" <rgarrett7(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Builders in Fayetteville, NC
Hi ... Would you happen to have a hangar at the Fayetteville airport? I'm tied down in front of Landmark. Thanks, Randy On 5/13/07, angie vick wrote: > > randy, 910-6243529,i am in fayetteville, frank goggio rv6a > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "angie vick" <gilbey(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Builders in Fayetteville, NC
Date: May 13, 2007
randy,i have a hanger at grays creek, few miles from fayetteville,do you need someone to come and get you,i can get you the tools you need,do you have a phone that you can call me at,do you need me to come to you now frank goggio 910-6243529 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2007
From: "Randy Garrett" <rgarrett7(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Builders in Fayetteville, NC
Hi Frank ... I certainly appreciate the offer. I will try the Landmark FBO first and see if they can help. If not, I might have to impose on you. My cell phone is 703-473-9458. I have a rental car and hotel ... I was going to some mtgs at Ft Bragg ... so I am in pretty good shape. The trickiest part will probably be finding another alternator or getting this one rebuilt. I have the one from Van's which is a late 70's Honda Civic. Many thanks! Randy On 5/13/07, angie vick wrote: > > randy,i have a hanger at grays creek, few miles from fayetteville,do you > need someone to come and get you,i can get you the tools you need,do you > have a phone that you can call me at,do you need me to come to you now > frank goggio 910-6243529 > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2007
From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com>
Subject: source for ready-made hoses
It's been ten years - time to replace the aging home-made oil and fuel hoses FWF. This time I want to go with "lifetime" teflon hoses and professionally installed fittings and firesleeve, with pressure testing, so I'm looking for a good vendor to provide ready-made hoses. Any recommendations as far as price and service, turn-around time and so forth? Thanks, -Bill B / Stormy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: source for ready-made hoses
Date: May 14, 2007
If you want aircraft certified hoses try Sacramento Sky Ranch. You migh also try your local automotive speed shop. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Boyd Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 8:53 AM Subject: RV-List: source for ready-made hoses It's been ten years - time to replace the aging home-made oil and fuel hoses FWF. This time I want to go with "lifetime" teflon hoses and professionally installed fittings and firesleeve, with pressure testing, so I'm looking for a good vendor to provide ready-made hoses. Any recommendations as far as price and service, turn-around time and so forth? Thanks, -Bill B / Stormy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2007
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Builders in Fayetteville, NC
Randy Garrett wrote: > > The trickiest part will probably be finding another alternator or getting > this one rebuilt. I have the one from Van's which is a late 70's Honda > Civic. The 35 amp alternator is a NipponDenso as used on 1976-1979 Honda Civic CVCC without air conditioning. A common number you can find in Duralast and other reman alternators is 14184. The Beck/Arnley number is 186-0100. You can leave the fan on the new alternator. Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tailgummer(at)aol.com
Date: May 14, 2007
Subject: Re: source for ready-made hoses
Bill, I had all my hoses profesionally made , firesleeved, pressure tested and tagged by Aviall Aerospace in Van Nuys, Ca. I would do it again in a heartbeat. Reall nice people to work with. Try Tim Temple @ (818) 997-5063. John D'Onofrio RV8 N585JD ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic2(at)starband.net>
Subject: source for ready-made hoses
Date: May 14, 2007
I had good service, quick turnaround, and good products from Southeastern Hose http://www.sehose.com/ brian http://brian76.mystarband.net/engineOct06.htm#oct12 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Boyd Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 7:53 AM Subject: RV-List: source for ready-made hoses It's been ten years - time to replace the aging home-made oil and fuel hoses FWF. This time I want to go with "lifetime" teflon hoses and professionally installed fittings and firesleeve, with pressure testing, so I'm looking for a good vendor to provide ready-made hoses. Any recommendations as far as price and service, turn-around time and so forth? Thanks, -Bill B / Stormy 12:17 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2007
From: "Greg Williams" <mr.gsun+rv-list(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Performance Chart
Wow, Thanks for all that tech info. I took notes and will digest it. As long as you're at it, what's the best way to lean the engine? My EFIS tells me all four EGT's but they react fairly slowly, and bounce around a bit. I'm not experienced enough to concentrate on watching for the peak numbers and fly the plane and chew bubble gum at the same time. Greg On 5/13/07, Kevin Horton wrote: > > > Just for reference, if you are leaned to best power, the Lycoming > power charts for the 200 hp IO-360-A says that 2400 rpm and 22" at > 8000 ft gives 69% power at standard temperature. If you have a 180 > hp parallel valve O-360-A (and I assume that the parallel valve 180 > hp IO-360-Bs would be similar to the O-360), the same rpm and MP > gives 75% power. > > It is interesting that at 8000 ft, for the same rpm and MP, the 200 > hp angle valve engine makes less power than the 180 hp parallel valve > engine if the rpm is less than about 2350. Once the rpm is up, the > angle valve engine breaths better, and it makes more power than the > parallel valve one. > > If your 180 hp parallel valve engine is leaned to best power at 8000 > ft, on a standard day, 2550 and 22.5" = 144 hp (80%) > 2350 and 22.5" = 138 hp (77%) > 2400 and 20" = 120 (67%) > > If you leaner than best power mixture (as defined in the Lycoming > Operators Manual), then the power will be a bit less than that. > > If you are running lean of peak, I think your specific fuel > consumption would be somewhere in the range of 0.45 lb/hr per hp. > Avgas weighs 6 lb/USG. So, you can multiply the fuel flows (in USG/ > hr) by 6/0.45 (=13.3) to get an approximate power in hp. Or, looked > at another way, if you have a a 180 hp engine, and you want 75% power > (135 hp), find a power setting that gives around 135/13.3 = 10.1 USG/ > hr (only valid if mixture is leaner than mixture for best power). > This won't work if your mixture is richer than the mixture for best > power, as in this case not all the fuel is being burnt, and the SFC > will vary as the mixture varies. > > Note: the exact SFC to expect varies depending on which reference you > read. Pick the reference you believe, and adjust the above numbers > to suit). > > Kevin Horton > Ottawa, Canada > > > On 12 May 2007, at 23:30, Greg Williams wrote: > > > Hey, Thank you. It's better than what I've got now, I think. > > I'll try your numbers and see what happens. I would like to figure > > it out but don't really know where to start. The chart that I was > > given reads as below: > > > > > > Cruise Performance at 8,000': > > > > KIAS > > > > RPM > > > > MAP > > > > Fuel Flow > > > > % Power > > > > 168 > > > > 2550 > > > > 22.5 > > > > 10.1 GPH > > > > 75% > > > > 161 > > > > 2350 > > > > 22.5 > > > > 8.5 GPH > > > > 65% > > > > 150 > > > > 2400 > > > > 20.0 > > > > 6.8 GPH > > > > 55% > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > I can't get anywhere near 168 KIAS with these 75% power settings. > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > On 5/12/07, Reuven Silberman wrote: Greg, > > > > Got almost the same setup in a 7A but with mags. We had the same > > questions a year and a half ago. Called Lycoming and had them send > > an 8 1/2" by 11" power chart (the original is a 5 x 8 sheet that is > > all but unreadable and unuseable) for an IO360 and used that to > > start with. Would have no clue on how the Lightspeed would affect > > the power chart. We use 22" at 2400 rpm and I believe that is > > around 75% and the fuel flow gauge reads 10gph. Can obviously get > > it down lower if we use 20" or even 18" for sigh-seeing cruse. > > The bottom line is that you are pretty much on your own to figure > > the power setting out. > > > > Reuven Silberman > > NWT > > > > Greg Williams wrote: I'm flying a 1160 lb RV-7 > > with Hartzell Blended Airfoil Constant Speed Prop, Aerosport IO-360 > > 180 hp engine, Lightspeed Ignition > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: source for ready-made hoses
Date: May 14, 2007
From: vft(at)aol.com
I had these type hoses made up for my Rocket project by Precision Hose Technology (PHT) in Tulsa, OK . I'm very happy with the way they tyrned out however there are a few things you should take into consideration when using these. The first is that they do not have an unlimited service life. Only an unlimited shelf life. The second is these hose assemblies are much stiffer than standard hose assemblies so they really need to fit well. When I measured for mine I intentionently added and extra couple of inches thinking that any extra length could be used up by allowing the hose to bend a bit between the attach fitting as is normaly the case with standard hosed. I ended up having to send some back and redone to a shorter length. BTW Precision gave me great customer service in dealing with all of this. Danny Melnik F1 #25 Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory -----Original Message----- From: Bruce(at)glasair.org Sent: Mon, 14 May 2007 9:28 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: source for ready-made hoses If you want aircraft certified hoses try Sacramento Sky Ranch. You migh also try your local automotive speed shop. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Boyd Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 8:53 AM Subject: RV-List: source for ready-made hoses It's been ten years - time to replace the aging home-made oil and fuel hoses FWF. This time I want to go with "lifetime" teflon hoses and professionally installed fittings and firesleeve, with pressure testing, so I'm looking for a good vendor to provide ready-made hoses. Any recommendations as far as price and service, turn-around time and so forth? Thanks, -Bill B / Stormy href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic2(at)starband.net>
Subject: source for ready-made hoses
Date: May 14, 2007
Oh and I almost forgot an important part whoever you get them from, when you order them, be sure to specify OVERALL LENGTH from the outer end of one nut to the outer end of the nut at the other end. I had specified sealing surface to sealing surface when I ordered mine, and it causes confusion. The hose makers expect lengths you give them are OAL. brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of vft(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 12:39 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: source for ready-made hoses I had these type hoses made up for my Rocket project by Precision Hose Technology (PHT) in Tulsa, OK . I'm very happy with the way they tyrned out however there are a few things you should take into consideration when using these. The first is that they do not have an unlimited service life. Only an unlimited shelf life. The second is these hose assemblies are much stiffer than standard hose assemblies so they really need to fit well. When I measured for mine I intentionently added and extra couple of inches thinking that any extra length could be used up by allowing the hose to bend a bit between the attach fitting as is normaly the case with standard hosed. I ended up having to send some back and redone to a shorter length. BTW Precision gave me great customer service in dealing with all of this. Danny Melnik F1 #25 Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory -----Original Message----- From: Bruce(at)glasair.org Sent: Mon, 14 May 2007 9:28 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: source for ready-made hoses If you want aircraft certified hoses try Sacramento Sky Ranch. You migh also try your local automotive speed shop. Bruce www.glasair.org <http://www.glasair.org/> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com <javascript:parent.ComposeTo(> [ mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Bill Boyd Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 8:53 AM rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: source for ready-made hoses It's been ten years - time to replace the aging home-made oil and fuel hoses FWF. This time I want to go with "lifetime" teflon hoses and professionally installed fittings and firesleeve, with pressure testing, so I'm looking for a good vendor to provide ready-made hoses. Any recommendations as far as price and service, turn-around time and so forth? Thanks, -Bill B / Stormy href=" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List href=" http://forums.matronics.com "> http://forums.matronics.com _____ 12:17 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Mack" <don(at)dmack.net>
Subject: Does anyone have a number for Grand Rapids?
Date: May 14, 2007
I tried emailing a couple weeks ago without any luck. Their web page and it is not working today (it was up last week). I dialed the number in the yeller pages, 616-583-8000 and receive a disconnect message. Perhaps the list has the answers to my questions for them: I just turned on my EIS 4000 for the first time and have a few questions about readings that I do not find answers for in the manual. The readings were all taken with the engine off (it's never been started, Lyc 0360-a1a). Oil temp reads 59 degrees. Room temperature was around 70. Is that normal when the oil is cold/engine off? CHT temps read 22x for all 4, is that just the low end reading? Oil pressure reads 29, again engine cold and off? Volts read 20. I have the battery on a trickle charger. Two other instruments both read 13.1 (Dynon D10a and Monroy ATD300)? Thanks Don Mack | don(at)dmack.net | www.dmack.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-9 Certified As E-LSA
Date: May 14, 2007
Hawk, it is not supposed to be a discrepancy. Category 1 that you talk about is for existing light-sport aircraft. That has created somewhat of a loophole . It was designed for existing ultra-lights, but also was meant to include those folks already building an otherwise amateur-built aircraft at the ti me this new rule took effect that have not had the chance to get a letter o f compliance from the manf. but otherwise met the rule/definition of a ligh t-sport aircraft. If the builder of an RV-9 was able to convince an inspe ctor that his aircraft could not/would not go faster than 120 kts in cruise and could stall at 39 knots or less then he was eligible for an experiment al light-sport certificate. The up side is he can operate it with only a d river's license instead of a medical and will get away with a few less flig ht test hours. The down side is he will have to go to a 16 hour school som ewhere in order to qualify for the repairman cert. Mike Robertson Das Fed From: hawk(at)compuplus.netTo: rv-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RV-List: RV-9 Cer tified As E-LSADate: Fri, 11 May 2007 22:49:50 -0600 A current thread in Doug Reeve's VAF Forums (and a First-Flight report on V an's site) concerns the certification of an RV-9 in the ELSA Category. I can't find any reference to the mechanism of such a certification in the F inal Rule on SP/LSA published by the FAA. Indeed, all the references I hav e run across support Ron Wanttaja's summary in his May 2005 'Kitplanes' art icle: "There are three basic ways an aircraft can receive an ELSA airworthiness c ertificate: (1) conversion of a former two-seat ultralight trainer (through early 2008), (2) construction of the aircraft from an ELSA kit or plans, a nd (3) conversion of an existing SLSA. It takes no FAA approval to put together an Ex/AB kit to sell to other buil ders. A potential ELSA manufacturer, however, must build a prototype aircr aft, ensure it meets the LSA concensus standards, pass the FAA inspection a nd receive the SLSA certificate. At that point, the manufacturer can eithe r begin producing ready-to-fly SLSAs or ELSA kits." Can anyone comment on this apparent discrepancy, particularly from the Fed side? Hawkeye Hughes RV-3 Skyote _________________________________________________________________ Change is good. See what=92s different about Windows Live Hotmail. www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/default.html?locale=en-us&ocid=TX T_TAGLM_HMWL_reten_changegood_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2007
From: ptrotter(at)optonline.net
Subject: Re: Does anyone have a number for Grand Rapids?
616-245-7700 ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Mack Date: Monday, May 14, 2007 4:21 pm Subject: RV-List: Does anyone have a number for Grand Rapids? > > I tried emailing a couple weeks ago without any luck. Their web > page and it > is not working today (it was up last week). I dialed the number > in the > yeller pages, 616-583-8000 and receive a disconnect message. > > Perhaps the list has the answers to my questions for them: > > I just turned on my EIS 4000 for the first time and have a few > questionsabout readings that I do not find answers for in the > manual. The readings > were all taken with the engine off (it's never been started, Lyc > 0360-a1a). > > Oil temp reads 59 degrees. Room temperature was around 70. Is > that normal > when the oil is cold/engine off? > > CHT temps read 22x for all 4, is that just the low end reading? > > Oil pressure reads 29, again engine cold and off? > > Volts read 20. I have the battery on a trickle charger. Two other > instruments both read 13.1 (Dynon D10a and Monroy ATD300)? > > Thanks > > Don Mack | don(at)dmack.net | www.dmack.net > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2007
From: Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com>
Subject: Re: Does anyone have a number for Grand Rapids?
(616) 245-7700 Don Mack wrote: > > I tried emailing a couple weeks ago without any luck. Their web page and it > is not working today (it was up last week). I dialed the number in the > yeller pages, 616-583-8000 and receive a disconnect message. > > Perhaps the list has the answers to my questions for them: > > I just turned on my EIS 4000 for the first time and have a few questions > about readings that I do not find answers for in the manual. The readings > were all taken with the engine off (it's never been started, Lyc 0360-a1a). > > Oil temp reads 59 degrees. Room temperature was around 70. Is that normal > when the oil is cold/engine off? > > CHT temps read 22x for all 4, is that just the low end reading? > > Oil pressure reads 29, again engine cold and off? > > Volts read 20. I have the battery on a trickle charger. Two other > instruments both read 13.1 (Dynon D10a and Monroy ATD300)? > > Thanks > > Don Mack | don(at)dmack.net | www.dmack.net > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jbker(at)juno.com" <jbker(at)juno.com>
Date: May 14, 2007
Subject: RV-9 Certified As E-LSA
Mike, I was given the opinion at SnF by both the FAA and EAA that there was n o distinction on FAA records whether an amateur built exp was an airplan e or a LSA. Also that there was nothing that a kit builder did to say wh ich is was and it was up to the builder to decide if it qualified as an LSA to be flown by a driver's license medical pilot. Was I mislead?? Bernie Kerr, selling 9A and waiting on 12A.
Mike,

I was given the opinion at SnF by both the FAA and EAA that the re was no distinction on FAA records whether an amateur built exp was an airplane or a LSA. Also that there was nothing that a kit builder did to say which is was and it was up to the builder to decide if it qua lified as an LSA to be flown by a driver's license medical pilot.

Was I mislead??

Bernie Kerr, selling 9A and waiting on 12A.

________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-9 Certified As E-LSA
Date: May 14, 2007
Bernie, You were not mislead under the current rules. BUT, after January 31, 2008 there is going to be some changes. On that date the category 1 existing ai rcraft certification possibilities will go away. After that date you will have to prove that the aircraft is LSA compliant, be it a kit or pre-built, via a letter of compliance from the aircraft manufacturer. So if you have an aircraft you want to get into LSA, you better get on the stick. Now, with that being said, that will not change anything about operating an aircraft under the LSA rules, just the certification rules. Mike Robertson From: jbker(at)juno.comDate: Mon, 14 May 2007 21:57:08 +0000To: rv-list@matron ics.comSubject: RE: RV-List: RV-9 Certified As E-LSA Mike, I was given the opinion at SnF by both the FAA and EAA that there was no d istinction on FAA records whether an amateur built exp was an airplane or a LSA. Also that there was nothing that a kit builder did to say which is wa s and it was up to the builder to decide if it qualified as an LSA to be fl own by a driver's license medical pilot. Was I mislead?? Bernie Kerr, selling 9A and waiting on 12A. _________________________________________________________________ Create the ultimate e-mail address book. Import your contacts to Windows Li ve Hotmail. www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/managemail2.html?locale=en-us&ocid =TXT_TAGLM_HMWL_reten_impcont_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Performance Chart
Date: May 14, 2007
Sorry, I'm no expert on leaning. The vast majority of my time is in aircraft powered by turbines or big radial. My light piston time is all in aircraft with no EGT gauge. I've got a Grand Rapids EIS 4000 in my RV-8 project, and its leaning function is one of the reasons why I went with it. You manually switch it to leaning mode, and then it picks up which EGT is first to peak, and then it tells you how many degrees rich or lean of peak the EGT of that cylinder is. Some manufacturers advertise that their EGT probes have a fast response, but I honestly don't know if there are any real differences, or if this is just marketing hype. One idea to try - some day when you have some time, establish a typical cruise altitude and power. Then, very slowly, lean, watching all EGTs and note which one peaks first. See if this is repeatable, even at different power settings. If you have one cylinder that always peaks first, then maybe you can simplify things a bit by paying more attention to that one cylinder. Also, if you have one or two different power settings that you like to use, note the fuel flow reading when the first cylinder peaks. Then, in the future, you could lean rapidly until the fuel flow is a bit more than this value, pause for the EGTs to stabilize, then lean more slowly to catch the peak EGT. I've never tried this, as I don't fly an aircraft with an EGT gauge, so I don't know how well it will work. I offer it for your consideration. The only piston-powered aircraft I am flying at the moment is an old C182. Kevin Horton On 14 May 2007, at 11:40, Greg Williams wrote: > Wow, Thanks for all that tech info. I took notes and will digest > it. As long as you're at it, what's the best way to lean the > engine? My EFIS tells me all four EGT's but they react fairly > slowly, and bounce around a bit. I'm not experienced enough to > concentrate on watching for the peak numbers and fly the plane and > chew bubble gum at the same time. Greg > > On 5/13/07, Kevin Horton wrote: --> RV-List > message posted by: Kevin Horton > > Just for reference, if you are leaned to best power, the Lycoming > power charts for the 200 hp IO-360-A says that 2400 rpm and 22" at > 8000 ft gives 69% power at standard temperature. If you have a 180 > hp parallel valve O-360-A (and I assume that the parallel valve 180 > hp IO-360-Bs would be similar to the O-360), the same rpm and MP > gives 75% power. > > It is interesting that at 8000 ft, for the same rpm and MP, the 200 > hp angle valve engine makes less power than the 180 hp parallel valve > engine if the rpm is less than about 2350. Once the rpm is up, the > angle valve engine breaths better, and it makes more power than the > parallel valve one. > > If your 180 hp parallel valve engine is leaned to best power at 8000 > ft, on a standard day, 2550 and 22.5" = 144 hp (80%) > 2350 and 22.5" = 138 hp (77%) > 2400 and 20" = 120 (67%) > > If you leaner than best power mixture (as defined in the Lycoming > Operators Manual), then the power will be a bit less than that. > > If you are running lean of peak, I think your specific fuel > consumption would be somewhere in the range of 0.45 lb/hr per hp. > Avgas weighs 6 lb/USG. So, you can multiply the fuel flows (in USG/ > hr) by 6/0.45 (=13.3) to get an approximate power in hp. Or, looked > at another way, if you have a a 180 hp engine, and you want 75% power > (135 hp), find a power setting that gives around 135/13.3 = 10.1 USG/ > hr (only valid if mixture is leaner than mixture for best power). > This won't work if your mixture is richer than the mixture for best > power, as in this case not all the fuel is being burnt, and the SFC > will vary as the mixture varies. > > Note: the exact SFC to expect varies depending on which reference you > read. Pick the reference you believe, and adjust the above numbers > to suit). > > Kevin Horton > Ottawa, Canada > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: RV-9 Certified As E-LSA
Date: May 14, 2007
Where did the 39 kt stall requirement come from? The light sport aircraft definition in FAR 1.1 says 45 kt stall, without the use of lift-enhancing devices. Kevin Horton On 14 May 2007, at 16:30, Mike Robertson wrote: > Hawk, > > it is not supposed to be a discrepancy. Category 1 that you talk > about is for existing light-sport aircraft. That has created > somewhat of a loophole. It was designed for existing ultra-lights, > but also was meant to include those folks already building an > otherwise amateur-built aircraft at the time this new rule took > effect that have not had the chance to get a letter of compliance > from the manf. but otherwise met the rule/definition of a light- > sport aircraft. If the builder of an RV-9 was able to convince an > inspector that his aircraft could not/would not go faster than 120 > kts in cruise and could stall at 39 knots or less then he was > eligible for an experimental light-sport certificate. The up side > is he can operate it with only a driver's license instead of a > medical and will get away with a few less flight test hours. The > down side is he will have to go to a 16 hour school somewhere in > order to qualify for the repairman cert. > > Mike Robertson > Das Fed > From: hawk(at)compuplus.net > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: RV-9 Certified As E-LSA > Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 22:49:50 -0600 > > A current thread in Doug Reeve's VAF Forums (and a First-Flight > report on Van's site) concerns the certification of an RV-9 in the > ELSA Category. I can't find any reference to the mechanism of > such a certification in the Final Rule on SP/LSA published by the > FAA. Indeed, all the references I have run across support Ron > Wanttaja's summary in his May 2005 'Kitplanes' article: > > "There are three basic ways an aircraft can receive an ELSA > airworthiness certificate: (1) conversion of a former two-seat > ultralight trainer (through early 2008), (2) construction of the > aircraft from an ELSA kit or plans, and (3) conversion of an > existing SLSA. > > It takes no FAA approval to put together an Ex/AB kit to sell to > other builders. A potential ELSA manufacturer, however, must build > a prototype aircraft, ensure it meets the LSA concensus standards, > pass the FAA inspection and receive the SLSA certificate. At that > point, the manufacturer can either begin producing ready-to-fly > SLSAs or ELSA kits." > > Can anyone comment on this apparent discrepancy, particularly from > the Fed side? > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2007
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-9 Certified As E-LSA
Hi Mike, The info below seems to imply one of two things. Either there's an easy out, since the builder is the manufacturer, or we are sliding down that slippery slope where parts sellers become manufacturers, with all the legal/liability ramifications. If I build the a/c, shouldn't I, as the manufacturer, be the one to supply the letter of compliance? If I scratch build a Cub or Taylorcraft-like plane from plans, who will be able to supply the letter of compliance? Or are you saying that the plane would simply be an experimental (instead of E-LSA) with gross weight & top speed set to comply with the LSA limits, then we can operate that plane under LSA rules? Thanks, Charlie Mike Robertson wrote: > > > > Bernie, > > You were not mislead under the current rules. BUT, after January 31, > 2008 there is going to be some changes. On that date the category 1 > existing aircraft certification possibilities will go away. After that > date you will have to prove that the aircraft is LSA compliant, be it a > kit or pre-built, via a letter of compliance from the aircraft > manufacturer. So if you have an aircraft you want to get into LSA, you > better get on the stick. > > Now, with that being said, that will not change anything about operating > an aircraft under the LSA rules, just the certification rules. > > Mike Robertson > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From: jbker(at)juno.com > Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 21:57:08 +0000 > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-9 Certified As E-LSA > > Mike, > I was given the opinion at SnF by both the FAA and EAA that there > was no distinction on FAA records whether an amateur built exp was > an airplane or a LSA. Also that there was nothing that a kit builder > did to say which is was and it was up to the builder to decide if it > qualified as an LSA to be flown by a driver's license medical pilot. > Was I mislead?? > Bernie Kerr, selling 9A and waiting on 12A. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard Reynolds <rvreynolds(at)macs.net>
Subject: Big Bend State Park - Texas
Date: May 14, 2007
Any recommendations on flying to the Big Bend Area? 1E2 Terlingua Ranch (how big is the "gravel"?) 3TE3 Big Bend State Ranch Richard Reynolds (born in Texas but must live in Virginia because my wife says so) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)warpdriveonline.com>
Subject: Re: Big Bend State Park - Texas
Date: May 14, 2007
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php? t=13924&highlight=big+bend http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php? t=14410&highlight=big+bend http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php? t=15338&highlight=big+bend Should keep you busy for a few minutes. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Flying http://n5lp.net On May 14, 2007, at 6:26 PM, Richard Reynolds wrote: > > Any recommendations on flying to the Big Bend Area? > > 1E2 Terlingua Ranch (how big is the "gravel"?) > 3TE3 Big Bend State Ranch > > Richard Reynolds (born in Texas but must live in Virginia because > my wife says so) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2007
From: "Randy Garrett" <rgarrett7(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Builders in Fayetteville, NC
Thanks very much for the information. I was able to get the alternator rebuilt while I stood there and watched. Turned out the bushes were worn out. They also replaced the bearings because there was some wear. Since I had 750 hrs on the alternator, I did not feel too bad. They said it was in good shape otherwise. Regards, Randy On 5/14/07, Sam Buchanan wrote: > > > Randy Garrett wrote: > > > > > The trickiest part will probably be finding another alternator or > getting > > this one rebuilt. I have the one from Van's which is a late 70's Honda > > Civic. > > The 35 amp alternator is a NipponDenso as used on 1976-1979 Honda Civic > CVCC without air conditioning. A common number you can find in Duralast > and other reman alternators is 14184. The Beck/Arnley number is > 186-0100. You can leave the fan on the new alternator. > > Sam Buchanan > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Builders in Fayetteville, NC
Date: May 14, 2007
Glad you got things fixed, Randy. No fun have a problem, even less fun having one when away from home base. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy Garrett To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 9:06 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Builders in Fayetteville, NC Thanks very much for the information. I was able to get the alternator rebuilt while I stood there and watched. Turned out the bushes were worn out. They also replaced the bearings because there was some wear. Since I had 750 hrs on the alternator, I did not feel too bad. They said it was in good shape otherwise. Regards, Randy On 5/14/07, Sam Buchanan wrote: Randy Garrett wrote: > > The trickiest part will probably be finding another alternator or getting > this one rebuilt. I have the one from Van's which is a late 70's Honda > Civic. The 35 amp alternator is a NipponDenso as used on 1976-1979 Honda Civic CVCC without air conditioning. A common number you can find in Duralast ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: May 14, 2007
Subject: Re: source for ready-made hoses
In a message dated 5/14/2007 10:42:06 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, vft(at)aol.com writes: I had these type hoses made up for my Rocket project by Precision Hose Technology (PHT) in Tulsa, OK . =================== Anyone have a phone number for them? GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 845hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2007
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: source for ready-made hoses
www.aircrafthose.com Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/14/2007 10:42:06 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > vft(at)aol.com writes: > > I had these type hoses made up for my Rocket project by Precision > Hose Technology (PHT) in Tulsa, OK . > > =================== > > Anyone have a phone number for them? > > > > GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 845hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See what's free at AOL.com > <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503>. > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: May 15, 2007
Subject: Re: source for ready-made hoses
In a message dated 5/14/2007 9:02:50 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, kellym(at)aviating.com writes: www.aircrafthose.com Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/14/2007 10:42:06 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > vft(at)aol.com writes: > > I had these type hoses made up for my Rocket project by Precision > Hose Technology (PHT) in Tulsa, OK . > > =================== > > Anyone have a phone number for them? =================================== That's an odd phone number. I have the website listed in the Yeller Pages, but was hoping for a phone number to complete the data. Do not archive. -GV ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2007
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: source for ready-made hoses
I guess it is just to way too hard to click on a link for page that has the phone numbers right front and center. 919-835-3660, 800-331-5946 Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/14/2007 9:02:50 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > kellym(at)aviating.com writes: > > www.aircrafthose.com > > V > > Anyone have a phone number for them? > > =================================== > > That's an odd phone number. I have the website listed in the Yeller > Pages, but was hoping for a phone number to complete the data. Do not > archive. > > -GV > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See what's free at AOL.com > <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503>. > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dave Cudney <yenduc(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Where to put the fuel flow sensor
Date: May 14, 2007
> I have a Superior IO 360 in my RV 7A with a Precision EX ( Silver > Hawk) injection system. I do not have a purge valve. > We are using a Dynon D 120 engine monitor. I asked Superior about > the placement of the fuel flow sensor. > They recommended that I ask Dynon for their recommendation. I > prefer to place the sensor between the electric fuel > pump and the firewall just aft of the heater vents. There has been > some discussion about placement after the mechanical > pump to reduce any possible restriction on the inflow side of the > mechanical pump. The Dynon represenative said that it > probably would make very little difference and he had heard of no > problems. Placing the sensor aft of the firewall simplifies > the installation considerably. Does anyone have any experience > with placement aft of the firewall? > Thanks > dave I prefer to > > > See what's free at AOL.com. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: May 15, 2007
Subject: Re: source for ready-made hoses
In a message dated 5/14/2007 9:24:47 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, kellym(at)aviating.com writes: I guess it is just to way too hard to click on a link for page that has the phone numbers right front and center. =========================================== You're right, the time I spend maintaining the Yeller Pages is of no consequence and as a bonus I get to field potshots from pudknockers such as you. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 844hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Chris Brooks <brooksrv6(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Where to put the fuel flow sensor
Date: May 15, 2007
I have the fuel flow sensor mounted in my left wing root, after the gascola tor. My fuel boost pump is mounted in the center console beneath the select or valve. I wanted my boost pump as close to the tanks as possible. Haven' t had any problems yet with the flowscan between the pumps. 220hrs Chris _________________________________________________________________ Change is good. See what=92s different about Windows Live Hotmail. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/default.html?locale=en-us&oc id=RMT_TAGLM_HMWL_reten_changegood_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2007
From: Matt Jurotich <mjurotich(at)hst.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: RV-9 Certified As E-LSA
Build your airplane as an experimental and set the gross weight at 1320 or less and put on a prop that maxs top speed at 120 knots. Then a certificated pilot with a medical can fly it as experimental amateur built and LSA pilot can fly it as an LSA. Just like a 1946 Aeronca Champ! Matthew M. Jurotich e-mail mail to: phone : 301-286-5919 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2007
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Where to put the fuel flow sensor
Chris, Does that mean that you're only getting fuel flow from one wing? -----Original Message----- >From: Chris Brooks <brooksrv6(at)hotmail.com> >Sent: May 15, 2007 8:42 AM >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Where to put the fuel flow sensor > > >I have the fuel flow sensor mounted in my left wing root, after the gascolator. My fuel boost pump is mounted in the center console beneath the selector valve. I wanted my boost pump as close to the tanks as possible. Haven't had any problems yet with the flowscan between the pumps. 220hrs > >Chris >_________________________________________________________________ >Change is good. See whats different about Windows Live Hotmail. >http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/default.html?locale=en-us&ocid=RMT_TAGLM_HMWL_reten_changegood_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-9 Certified As E-LSA
Date: May 15, 2007
Sorry, Someone distracted me right when I was typing this. You are correct . It is 45 knots. Mike > From: khorton01(at)rogers.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-9 Certified As E-LSA > Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 20:20:30 -0400> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com> > --> R V-List message posted by: Kevin Horton > > Where did the 39 kt stall requirement come from? The light sport > aircraft definitio n in FAR 1.1 says 45 kt stall, without the use of > lift-enhancing devices. > > Kevin Horton> > On 14 May 2007, at 16:30, Mike Robertson wrote:> > > Ha wk,> >> > it is not supposed to be a discrepancy. Category 1 that you talk > > about is for existing light-sport aircraft. That has created > > somewh at of a loophole. It was designed for existing ultra-lights, > > but also w as meant to include those folks already building an > > otherwise amateur-b uilt aircraft at the time this new rule took > > effect that have not had t he chance to get a letter of compliance > > from the manf. but otherwise me t the rule/definition of a light- > > sport aircraft. If the builder of an RV-9 was able to convince an > > inspector that his aircraft could not/woul d not go faster than 120 > > kts in cruise and could stall at 39 knots or l ess then he was > > eligible for an experimental light-sport certificate. T he up side > > is he can operate it with only a driver's license instead of a > > medical and will get away with a few less flight test hours. The > > down side is he will have to go to a 16 hour school somewhere in > > order to qualify for the repairman cert.> >> > Mike Robertson> > Das Fed> > From : hawk(at)compuplus.net> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com> > Subject: RV-List: RV-9 Certified As E-LSA> > Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 22:49:50 -0600> >> > A curren t thread in Doug Reeve's VAF Forums (and a First-Flight > > report on Van's site) concerns the certification of an RV-9 in the > > ELSA Category. I ca n't find any reference to the mechanism of > > such a certification in the Final Rule on SP/LSA published by the > > FAA. Indeed, all the references I have run across support Ron > > Wanttaja's summary in his May 2005 'Kitpla nes' article:> >> > "There are three basic ways an aircraft can receive an ELSA > > airworthiness certificate: (1) conversion of a former two-seat > > ultralight trainer (through early 2008), (2) construction of the > > aircr aft from an ELSA kit or plans, and (3) conversion of an > > existing SLSA.> >> > It takes no FAA approval to put together an Ex/AB kit to sell to > > other builders. A potential ELSA manufacturer, however, must build > > a pr ototype aircraft, ensure it meets the LSA concensus standards, > > pass the FAA inspection and receive the SLSA certificate. At that > > point, the ma nufacturer can either begin producing ready-to-fly > > SLSAs or ELSA kits." > >> > Can anyone comment on this apparent discrepancy, particularly from > =================> > > _________________________________________________________________ Download Messenger. Start an i=92m conversation. Support a cause. Join now. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGWL_MAY07 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-9 Certified As E-LSA
Date: May 15, 2007
Charlie, After January 31, 2008 you last paragraph is exactly what will happen. In order for a kit manufacturer to issue a letter of compliance he must have s ubmitted the design to the Standardization board to proof compliance and ha ve received concurrence from them. Even under the current rules, any aircr aft that meets the requirements of a light-sport aircraft under FAR 1 may b e operated as a light-sport aircraft. With that in mind then a person with a private license and a current medical could be operating IFR one day, th en the next day when his medical expires he could operating the exact same aircraft as a light-sport providing it meets the definition. Mike Robertson > Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 19:24:19 -0500> From: ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-9 Certified As E-LSA> > -- i Mike,> > The info below seems to imply one of two things. Either there's an easy > out, since the builder is the manufacturer, or we are sliding dow n that > slippery slope where parts sellers become manufacturers, with all the > legal/liability ramifications.> > If I build the a/c, shouldn't I, as the manufacturer, be the one to > supply the letter of compliance?> > If I scratch build a Cub or Taylorcraft-like plane from plans, who will > be ab le to supply the letter of compliance?> > Or are you saying that the plane would simply be an experimental > (instead of E-LSA) with gross weight & to p speed set to comply with the > LSA limits, then we can operate that plane under LSA rules?> > Thanks,> > Charlie> > Mike Robertson wrote:> > > > > > > > Bernie,> > > > You were not mislead under the current rules. BUT, afte r January 31, > > 2008 there is going to be some changes. On that date the category 1 > > existing aircraft certification possibilities will go away. After that > > date you will have to prove that the aircraft is LSA complia nt, be it a > > kit or pre-built, via a letter of compliance from the aircr aft > > manufacturer. So if you have an aircraft you want to get into LSA, you > > better get on the stick.> > > > Now, with that being said, that wil l not change anything about operating > > an aircraft under the LSA rules, just the certification rules.> > > > Mike Robertson> > > > ---------------- --------------------------------------------------------> > From: jbker@jun o.com> > Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 21:57:08 +0000> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-9 Certified As E-LSA> > > > Mike,> > I was giv en the opinion at SnF by both the FAA and EAA that there> > was no distinct ion on FAA records whether an amateur built exp was> > an airplane or a LSA . Also that there was nothing that a kit builder> > did to say which is was and it was up to the builder to decide if it> > qualified as an LSA to be flown by a driver's license medical pilot.> > Was I mislead??> > Bernie Ker =======================> > > _________________________________________________________________ Create the ultimate e-mail address book. Import your contacts to Windows Li ve Hotmail. www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/managemail2.html?locale=en-us&ocid =TXT_TAGLM_HMWL_reten_impcont_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jbker(at)juno.com" <jbker(at)juno.com>
Date: May 15, 2007
Subject: RV-9 Certified As E-LSA
Mike, I must be ready for LSA , I'm more confused now. Lets only talk about af ter Jan 31/08 since the 12 kit will not be out until about that date :>) Will there be 3 categories of LSA? 1.Amateur built aircraft that meet L SA standards as certified by the builder 2. ELSA that will be certifie d by the FAA as LSA qualified and has to be built with no mods 3. LSA r eady to fly aircraft This is the way it was explained by Van at his 12 forum without mention of Jan 31/08. Please help this senile ol' man out! Bernie
Mike,

I must be ready for LSA , I'm more confused now. Lets only talk about after Jan 31/08 since the 12 kit will not be out until about that date :>)

Will there be 3 categories of LSA? 1.Amateur built aircraft tha t meet LSA standards as certified by the builder 2. ELSA tha t will be certified by the FAA as LSA qualified and has to be built with no mods 3. LSA ready to fly aircraft

This is the way it was explained by Van at his 12 forum without menti on of Jan 31/08.

Please help this senile ol' man out!

Bernie

________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Brown" <romott(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Which Plugs?
Date: May 15, 2007
I need to buy a new set of plugs for my IO360 C1C - 200 HP. I have a Jeff Rose Electroair on the bottom plugs (REM37BY) - and a Slick mag on the top plugs (REM38E). I've got 350 hours on them, cleaned and regapped them during the condition inspection which I finished yesterday - but now I've got some plugs that aren't firing 100%. (Some times it doesn't pay to fix things that aren't broken!!! - it ran like a top all the way to Lakeland and back!) I would like to use the NKG plugs that Klaus recommends with inserts. The inserts are pricey but sure saves money down the road - but I need to know what plugs to use? THANKS, Ronnie Velocity 173 Elite RG (well I do have a set of RV-6A plans! but I didn't stay in the Holiday Inn Express) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dcw(at)mnwing.org>
Subject: Re: Which Plugs?
Date: May 15, 2007
I used the plugs that Lightspeed recommends: http://www.lsecorp.com/Products/Sparkplugs.htm I run a dual Lightspeed system and after 100 hours it has been totally issue-free. Doug Weiler RV-4 N722DW ----- Originhttp://www.lsecorp.com/Products/Sparkplugs.htmal Message ----- From: Ron Brown To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 5:22 PM Subject: RV-List: Which Plugs? I need to buy a new set of plugs for my IO360 C1C - 200 HP. I have a Jeff Rose Electroair on the bottom plugs (REM37BY) - and a Slick mag on the top plugs (REM38E). I've got 350 hours on them, cleaned and regapped them during the condition inspection which I finished yesterday - but now I've got some plugs that aren't firing 100%. (Some times it doesn't pay to fix things that aren't broken!!! - it ran like a top all the way to Lakeland and back!) I would like to use the NKG plugs that Klaus recommends with inserts. The inserts are pricey but sure saves money down the road - but I need to know what plugs to use? THANKS, Ronnie Velocity 173 Elite RG (well I do have a set of RV-6A plans! but I didn't stay in the Holiday Inn Express) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2007
From: "Bob J." <rocketbob(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Which Plugs?
NGK BR9ES, about $1.50 or so at your local autoparts store. Spruce has the adapters. Your problems will disappear running the NGK plugs. They last forever too. Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying F1 under const. On 5/15/07, Ron Brown wrote: > > I need to buy a new set of plugs for my IO360 C1C - 200 HP. > > I have a Jeff Rose Electroair on the bottom plugs (REM37BY) - and a Slick > mag on the top plugs (REM38E). I've got 350 hours on them, cleaned and > regapped them during the condition inspection which I finished yesterday - > but now I've got some plugs that aren't firing 100%. (Some times it doesn't > pay to fix things that aren't broken!!! - it ran like a top all the way to > Lakeland and back!) > > I would like to use the NKG plugs that Klaus recommends with inserts. > The inserts are pricey but sure saves money down the road - but I need to > know what plugs to use? > > THANKS, > > Ronnie > > Velocity 173 Elite RG (well I do have a set of RV-6A plans! but I didn't > stay in the Holiday Inn Express) > > * > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > http://forums.matronics.com > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Chris Brooks <brooksrv6(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Where to put the fuel flow sensor
Date: May 16, 2007
... Chris, Does that mean that you're only getting fuel flow fr om one wing?... No, The Flowscan is installed after the Fuel selector valve and gascolator. It's located in the area between the wing root rib, a nd the fuselage. _________________________________________________________________ Change is good. See what=92s different about Windows Live Hotmail. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/default.html?locale=en-us&oc id=RMT_TAGLM_HMWL_reten_changegood_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-9 Certified As E-LSA
Date: May 16, 2007
Bernie, Keep in mind that anything is subject to change. But, as the rule appears right now the first category for ELSA will go away entirely after January 3 1, 2008. After that only category 2 and category 3 will remain. Please bear in mind that this is for CERTIFICATION in ELSA. It does not no w, nor will it later, effect the flying. No matter what category an aircra ft is certificated in (LSA, AMA-BLT, STD), as long as the aircraft meats th e definition of an LSA aircraft in FAR 1, a person may fly that aircraft un der the Light-Sport rules. Mike Robertson From: jbker(at)juno.comDate: Tue, 15 May 2007 17:06:17 +0000To: rv-list@matron ics.comSubject: RE: RV-List: RV-9 Certified As E-LSA Mike, I must be ready for LSA , I'm more confused now. Lets only talk about after Jan 31/08 since the 12 kit will not be out until about that date :>) Will there be 3 categories of LSA? 1.Amateur built aircraft that meet LSA standards as certified by the builder 2. ELSA that will be certified by t he FAA as LSA qualified and has to be built with no mods 3. LSA ready to f ly aircraft This is the way it was explained by Van at his 12 forum without mention of Jan 31/08. Please help this senile ol' man out! Bernie _________________________________________________________________ Add some color. Personalize your inbox with your favorite colors. www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/personalize.html?locale=en-us&ocid =TXT_TAGLM_HMWL_reten_addcolor_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RaNDY Frost" <jamesrfrost(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Unfourtunately it's time to sell my RV6
Date: May 16, 2007
I'm interested. Any Photos? Broad River 3GE3 >From: Garry LeGare <garry(at)versadek.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Unfourtunately it's time to sell my RV6 >Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 19:40:44 -0700 > > Health issues have restricted use of my "6" and finally have made it >almost impossible to continue flying. >It was completed in 2001 has 260 hr. TT with 190 SMOH on the 0360A3M >with Electroair Ignition,new slick mag and a just overhauled Whirlwind >151 3 blade prop, Wolf air/oil separator Chrome Valve covers and >intake tubes, Just annualed, and more >CUSTOM FEATURES includes:--Center fuel tank(12.5 gal). All carbon >fiber tilt canopy structure with special locking access door. Easy >removable extended engine air snorkel. Carbon fiber extended vertical >fin. Bonded on composite gear leg and intersection Fairing. Special

April 24, 2007 - May 16, 2007

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