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RV-Archive.digest.vol-su
May 16, 2007 - June 03, 2007

>ventilation and heater system with dual muffs, boots on all push rods >including flaps and a custom air extractor, means you will be warm or >cool, you decide. 3 density Temperfoam seats with lambs wool covering, >Single Link tailwheel steering,Carbon fiber elevator intersection >fairing, Vortex Generators, Baggage cover, heavy duty canopy cover, >Special floor and cockpit insulation, and more. ELECTRICAL:- > >-B&C 40 >amp alt and adjustable reg, 2 new B&C 12 Amp/Hr 400 CCA sealed bats >with either or both switching. Over voltage protection, Port on panel >for alternator diagnostics, battery charging port. Electric flaps, >electric elevator and aileron trim, stabs, dual landing lights with >wig wag setting and more. >PANEL:--MicroAir transponder and dual MicroAir radios, intercom with >built in noise canceling headsets(2) Rocky Mnt Uencoder & Umonitor for >engine, ECI CHT/EGT analiser, ECI dual Fuel gauge, Bendix King color >GPS, True Track auto pilot, AOA with voice warning, Dynon D10A Efis >just factory upgraded, left side throttle/mixtue/prop, controls, G >meter, Parking brake, Electonic ignition advance gauge, Sony FM/CD >player, Glove box, Wood grain accents, and more >It has always been hangered in dry climate area(last four years Paso >Robles). The only thing she needs is a paint job,It has been primered >since I first started flying. Yes, Laird you are right you should >always paint BEFORE flying. This is my baby and I'm going to miss her, >hoping to find her a good home. I'm posting it with you guys and the >Matronics List before I go to Trade A Plane. So the big question is >how much? Any help would be appreciated. >Garry "Casper" LeGare > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2007
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Where to put the fuel flow sensor
That adds a little to my confusion.... If I understand your setup correctly, fuel comes in to the fuse from both wings, to the selector, to the gascolator, then back out to the wing for the flowscan, then back through to the engine....? -----Original Message----- >From: Chris Brooks <brooksrv6(at)hotmail.com> >Sent: May 16, 2007 9:46 AM >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Where to put the fuel flow sensor > > > ... Chris, Does that mean that you're only getting fuel flow from one wing?... No, The Flowscan is installed after the Fuel selector valve and gascolator. It's located in the area between the wing root rib, and the fuselage. >_________________________________________________________________ >Change is good. See whats different about Windows Live Hotmail. >http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/default.html?locale=en-us&ocid=RMT_TAGLM_HMWL_reten_changegood_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Whiteside" <erwhites(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Which Plugs?
Date: May 16, 2007
Ron, I have been running the same setup for 600+ hours without any ignition problems. Since yours ran 350 hours without problems, you might be better off diagnosing the current problem before changing plug type. Your current problem may or may not be in the plug(s). If the problem started when you performed the maintenance, check for an ignition lead inadvertently damaged, incorrect gap setting, or a ceramic insulator cracked during gapping or handling. Eric Whiteside _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Brown Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 6:22 PM Subject: RV-List: Which Plugs? I need to buy a new set of plugs for my IO360 C1C - 200 HP. I have a Jeff Rose Electroair on the bottom plugs (REM37BY) - and a Slick mag on the top plugs (REM38E). I've got 350 hours on them, cleaned and regapped them during the condition inspection which I finished yesterday - but now I've got some plugs that aren't firing 100%. (Some times it doesn't pay to fix things that aren't broken!!! - it ran like a top all the way to Lakeland and back!) I would like to use the NKG plugs that Klaus recommends with inserts. The inserts are pricey but sure saves money down the road - but I need to know what plugs to use? THANKS, Ronnie Velocity 173 Elite RG (well I do have a set of RV-6A plans! but I didn't stay in the Holiday Inn Express) "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"http://www.matronics.com/Navigat or?RV-List 10:47 AM 10:47 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dick martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com>
Subject: Re: Which Plugs?
Date: May 16, 2007
Ron, I use Nippon Denso 27ESRU. I was able to achieve better performance over the NGK plugs I used previously. RV8, IO-390. 1500 plus hours, dual lightspeed igns. Dick Martin RV8 N233M the fast one ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Brown To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 5:22 PM Subject: RV-List: Which Plugs? I need to buy a new set of plugs for my IO360 C1C - 200 HP. I have a Jeff Rose Electroair on the bottom plugs (REM37BY) - and a Slick mag on the top plugs (REM38E). I've got 350 hours on them, cleaned and regapped them during the condition inspection which I finished yesterday - but now I've got some plugs that aren't firing 100%. (Some times it doesn't pay to fix things that aren't broken!!! - it ran like a top all the way to Lakeland and back!) I would like to use the NKG plugs that Klaus recommends with inserts. The inserts are pricey but sure saves money down the road - but I need to know what plugs to use? THANKS, Ronnie Velocity 173 Elite RG (well I do have a set of RV-6A plans! but I didn't stay in the Holiday Inn Express) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2007
From: John Fasching <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
Subject: NGK Plugs Types
I lost info on the difference between NGK BR9ES and BR8ES spark plugs. I 'think" I have used both at one time or another with LSE EI, but am now seeking specs on the difference...help anyone? John ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2007
From: John Fasching <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
Subject: Re: NGK Plugs Types
John Fasching wrote: > > I lost info on the difference between NGK BR9ES and BR8ES spark plugs. > I 'think" I have used both at one time or another with LSE EI, but am > now seeking specs on the difference...help anyone? > > John OK I found the data...the "9" are a higher temperature plug...the NKG's are rated 2 for coolest and 11 for the hottest. Seems snow mobilers and boaters know a lot about plugs. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2007
From: "Bob J." <rocketbob(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: NGK Plugs Types
The higher the number the colder the plug. If the plugs get carbon built up on them they are too cold, if they're too hot they show signs of erosion. Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying F1 under const. On 5/16/07, John Fasching wrote: > > > I lost info on the difference between NGK BR9ES and BR8ES spark plugs. I > 'think" I have used both at one time or another with LSE EI, but am now > seeking specs on the difference...help anyone? > > John > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2007
From: "Bob J." <rocketbob(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: NGK Plugs Types
NGK's go colder at the number goes up, opposite of Champions. If you take a look at the BR8ES plugs vs. the BR9ES plugs, the BR9ES have a shorter electrode, hence they're colder. I've use either in the RV with no problems. http://www.kaila.net/tl125/tl125ngkcode.html Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying F1 under const. On 5/16/07, John Fasching wrote: > > > John Fasching wrote: > > > > I lost info on the difference between NGK BR9ES and BR8ES spark plugs. > > I 'think" I have used both at one time or another with LSE EI, but am > > now seeking specs on the difference...help anyone? > > > > John > > OK I found the data...the "9" are a higher temperature plug...the NKG's > are rated 2 for coolest and 11 for the hottest. Seems snow mobilers and > boaters know a lot about plugs. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Chris Brooks <brooksrv6(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Where to put the fuel flow sensor
Date: May 17, 2007
That's the sequence but the gascolator is also in the wing root. The fuel p ump sits under the selector valve, putting it close to the tanks and gettin g it off the sidewall where I didn't like the looks. The Andair gascolator is in the wing root and is the lowest point in my fuel system. Being in the wing root it doesn't get heat soaked. It has a 70 micron filter built in t hat should keep debris from the flowscan also in the wing root. After the F lowscan the line comes back into the fuselage and out the firewall. I have a carburator, Not F.I. I have considered moving my Floscan and plumbing it between the engine dri ven pump and Carb to put it on the pressure side of the pump. But to answer your original question it has worked flawlessly mounted prior to the engin e driven pump. Chris >>>If I understand your setup correctly, fuel comes in to the fuse from bot h wings, to the selector, to the gascolator, then back out to the wing for the flowscan, then back through to the engine....?<<< _________________________________________________________________ Change is good. See what=92s different about Windows Live Hotmail. www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/default.html?locale=en-us&ocid=TX T_TAGLM_HMWL_reten_changegood_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <ronschreck(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Hangar at Morco Island
Date: May 17, 2007
I may need to fly down to Marco Island, FL this weekend to fly some Air Attack missions in support of the wildfires. I would like to fly my RV-8 down there but don't want to leave it on the ramp. If any of you have hangar space available at KMKY for a reasonable fee please contact me. Ron Schreck RV-8, "Miss Izzy" Gold Hill Airpark, NC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2007
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Where to put the fuel flow sensor
Understood - thanks for the explanation...better yet - it works too! -----Original Message----- >From: Chris Brooks <brooksrv6(at)hotmail.com> >Sent: May 17, 2007 8:37 AM >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Where to put the fuel flow sensor > > >That's the sequence but the gascolator is also in the wing root. The fuel pump sits under the selector valve, putting it close to the tanks and getting it off the sidewall where I didn't like the looks. The Andair gascolator is in the wing root and is the lowest point in my fuel system. Being in the wing root it doesn't get heat soaked. It has a 70 micron filter built in that should keep debris from the flowscan also in the wing root. After the Flowscan the line comes back into the fuselage and out the firewall. I have a carburator, Not F.I. > I have considered moving my Floscan and plumbing it between the engine driven pump and Carb to put it on the pressure side of the pump. But to answer your original question it has worked flawlessly mounted prior to the engine driven pump. > >Chris > > > >>>>If I understand your setup correctly, fuel comes in to the fuse from both wings, to the selector, to the gascolator, then back out to the wing for the flowscan, then back through to the engine....?<<< >_________________________________________________________________ >Change is good. See whats different about Windows Live Hotmail. >www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/default.html?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGLM_HMWL_reten_changegood_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hangar at Morco Island
Date: May 17, 2007
From: eddyfernan(at)aol.com
Ron, The Department of Florida Forestry Division has an empty hangar at N. Perry (HWO) just across from mine. I wonder if you could get permission to use it? I can give you a ride from there to Marco. That's if you will fly in a slightly slower RV9A! Eddy Fernandez 954-914-5579 cell -----Original Message----- From: ronschreck(at)windstream.net Sent: Thu, 17 May 2007 9:16 AM Subject: RV-List: Hangar at Morco Island I may need to fly down to Marco Island, FL this weekend to fly some Air Attack missions in support of the wildfires. I would like to fly my RV-8 down there but don't want to leave it on the ramp. If any of you have hangar space available at KMKY for a reasonable fee please contact me. Ron Schreck RV-8, "Miss Izzy" Gold Hill Airpark, NC ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hangar at Morco Island
From: "ronschreck" <ronschreck(at)windstream.net>
Date: May 17, 2007
Eddy, Thanks for the offer, but Hollywood is a bit far and typically state forest service folks worry too much about liability when then have private airplanes in their hangar. (Actually, they are more worried about citizens getting the impression that their tax dollars are providing a hangar for a non-governmental purpose.) At any rate, I avoid conflict whenever possible. Thanks for the offer. Ron Schreck Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113315#113315 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2007
From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Southeast Hose bows out
Bryan Meyette, I don;t know what you told them, but here's what they said to me... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Lin Clayton <lclayton(at)sehose.com> Date: May 17, 2007 11:09 AM Subject: Bill, I am going to have to no-quote this due to the service. Thanks, Lin Standard 100 degree flare anodized aluminum AN fittings. Thanks. On 5/16/07, *Southeastern Hose, Inc.* > wrote: What type of end ftgs are you looking for? Material? Lin Clayton Southeastern Hose, Inc. 506 Sangamore Road P.O. Box 575 Bremen, GA 30110 800-241-4818 770-537-5571 770-537-5573/Fax www.sehose.com ----- Original Message ----- *From:* Bill Boyd *To:* info(at)sehose.com *Sent:* Wednesday, May 16, 2007 10:31 AM *Subject:* Attention Lin Please quote the following hose assemblies (individually if possible) for my experimental aircraft: dimensions are end-to-end, all fittings are straight, hose type is teflon with SS braid (#124?), and all include firesleeving. Size 4 12" Size 4 15" Size 6 19" Size 6 12" Size 8 18" Size 8 16" Size 8 31" Please advise delivery time also. Thanks very much. Bill Boyd 4915 McKinney Hollow Road Clifton Forge, VA 24422 540-969-6466 Lin Clayton Southeastern Hose, Inc. 506 Sangamore Road Bremen, GA 30110 800-241-4818 www.sehose.com [image: logo[1]] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2007
From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: NGK Plugs Types
When I pulled my BR8ES's the other day for compression check, they had a toasty light brown to white color that looked to me like they were running a bit hot. No carbon anywhere. Running a pair of P-Mags on O-320-E2D with 160 hp pistons and burning hi-test mogas at 40-50F LOP when I can. I think I'll replace with BR9ES next time. Gaps were good at about 100 hrs with no sign of erosion that I could see. -Stormy On 5/16/07, Bob J. wrote: > > NGK's go colder at the number goes up, opposite of Champions. If you take > a look at the BR8ES plugs vs. the BR9ES plugs, the BR9ES have a shorter > electrode, hence they're colder. I've use either in the RV with no > problems. > > http://www.kaila.net/tl125/tl125ngkcode.html > > Regards, > Bob Japundza > RV-6 flying F1 under const. > > On 5/16/07, John Fasching wrote: > > > > > > > > > > John Fasching wrote: > > > > > > I lost info on the difference between NGK BR9ES and BR8ES spark plugs. > > > I 'think" I have used both at one time or another with LSE EI, but am > > > now seeking specs on the difference...help anyone? > > > > > > John > > > > OK I found the data...the "9" are a higher temperature plug...the NKG's > > are rated 2 for coolest and 11 for the hottest. Seems snow mobilers and > > boaters know a lot about plugs. > > > > * > > > > > > * > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Southeast Hose bows out
Date: May 17, 2007
It should have been 37.5 degree flare. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Boyd Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 11:35 AM Subject: RV-List: Southeast Hose bows out Bryan Meyette, I don;t know what you told them, but here's what they said to me... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Lin Clayton < <mailto:lclayton(at)sehose.com> lclayton(at)sehose.com> Date: May 17, 2007 11:09 AM Subject: Bill, I am going to have to no-quote this due to the service. Thanks, Lin Standard 100 degree flare anodized aluminum AN fittings. Thanks. On 5/16/07, Southeastern Hose, Inc. > wrote: What type of end ftgs are you looking for? Material? Lin Clayton Southeastern Hose, Inc. 506 Sangamore Road P.O. Box 575 Bremen, GA 30110 800-241-4818 770-537-5571 770-537-5573/Fax www.sehose.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Boyd <mailto:sportav8r(at)gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 10:31 AM Subject: Attention Lin Please quote the following hose assemblies (individually if possible) for my experimental aircraft: dimensions are end-to-end, all fittings are straight, hose type is teflon with SS braid (#124?), and all include firesleeving. Size 4 12" Size 4 15" Size 6 19" Size 6 12" Size 8 18" Size 8 16" Size 8 31" Please advise delivery time also. Thanks very much. Bill Boyd 4915 McKinney Hollow Road Clifton Forge, VA 24422 540-969-6466 Lin Clayton Southeastern Hose, Inc. 506 Sangamore Road Bremen, GA 30110 800-241-4818 www.sehose.com logo[1] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Southeast Hose bows out
Date: May 17, 2007
One other thing, when dealing with a non-aviation company, never tell them their product will be used on an airplane, you're building a hot rod, boat, or a new lawn tractor, never an airplane. Most companies will run from you with liability fears in their minds. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Boyd Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 11:35 AM Subject: RV-List: Southeast Hose bows out Bryan Meyette, I don;t know what you told them, but here's what they said to me... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Lin Clayton < <mailto:lclayton(at)sehose.com> lclayton(at)sehose.com> Date: May 17, 2007 11:09 AM Subject: Bill, I am going to have to no-quote this due to the service. Thanks, Lin Standard 100 degree flare anodized aluminum AN fittings. Thanks. On 5/16/07, Southeastern Hose, Inc. > wrote: What type of end ftgs are you looking for? Material? Lin Clayton Southeastern Hose, Inc. 506 Sangamore Road P.O. Box 575 Bremen, GA 30110 800-241-4818 770-537-5571 770-537-5573/Fax www.sehose.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Boyd <mailto:sportav8r(at)gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 10:31 AM Subject: Attention Lin Please quote the following hose assemblies (individually if possible) for my experimental aircraft: dimensions are end-to-end, all fittings are straight, hose type is teflon with SS braid (#124?), and all include firesleeving. Size 4 12" Size 4 15" Size 6 19" Size 6 12" Size 8 18" Size 8 16" Size 8 31" Please advise delivery time also. Thanks very much. Bill Boyd 4915 McKinney Hollow Road Clifton Forge, VA 24422 540-969-6466 Lin Clayton Southeastern Hose, Inc. 506 Sangamore Road Bremen, GA 30110 800-241-4818 www.sehose.com logo[1] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2007
From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Southeast Hose bows out
Aha. So the ol' memory is unreliable now, is it? No surprise :-) I'll run it past him again. Where did I get 100 degrees from?! I do know it's not standard automotive flare. DOH! Sometimes I wonder if I should have been allowed to build an airplane. -Stormy On 5/17/07, Bruce Gray wrote: > > It should have been 37.5 degree flare. > > > Bruce > www.glasair.org > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Boyd > *Sent:* Thursday, May 17, 2007 11:35 AM > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV-List: Southeast Hose bows out > > Bryan Meyette, I don;t know what you told them, but here's what they said > to me... > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Lin Clayton < lclayton(at)sehose.com> > Date: May 17, 2007 11:09 AM > Subject: > To: sportav8r(at)gmail.com > > Bill, > > I am going to have to no-quote this due to the service. > > > Thanks, > > Lin > > > Standard 100 degree flare anodized aluminum AN fittings. > > Thanks. > > On 5/16/07, *Southeastern Hose, Inc.* > wrote: > > What type of end ftgs are you looking for? Material? > > > Lin Clayton > Southeastern Hose, Inc. > 506 Sangamore Road > P.O. Box 575 > Bremen, GA 30110 > 800-241-4818 > 770-537-5571 > 770-537-5573/Fax > www.sehose.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Bill Boyd > > *To:* info(at)sehose.com > > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 16, 2007 10:31 AM > > *Subject:* Attention Lin > > > Please quote the following hose assemblies (individually if possible) for > my experimental aircraft: > > dimensions are end-to-end, all fittings are straight, hose type is teflon > with SS braid (#124?), and all include firesleeving. > > Size 4 12" > Size 4 15" > Size 6 19" > Size 6 12" > Size 8 18" > Size 8 16" > Size 8 31" > > Please advise delivery time also. Thanks very much. > > Bill Boyd > 4915 McKinney Hollow Road > Clifton Forge, VA 24422 > 540-969-6466 > > > Lin Clayton > > Southeastern Hose, Inc. > > 506 Sangamore Road > > Bremen, GA 30110 > > 800-241-4818 > > www.sehose.com > > [image: logo[1]] > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2007
From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Southeast Hose bows out
roger that On 5/17/07, Bruce Gray wrote: > > One other thing, when dealing with a non-aviation company, never tell > them their product will be used on an airplane, you're building a hot rod, > boat, or a new lawn tractor, never an airplane. Most companies will run from > you with liability fears in their minds. > > > Bruce > www.glasair.org > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Boyd > *Sent:* Thursday, May 17, 2007 11:35 AM > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV-List: Southeast Hose bows out > > Bryan Meyette, I don;t know what you told them, but here's what they said > to me... > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Lin Clayton < lclayton(at)sehose.com> > Date: May 17, 2007 11:09 AM > Subject: > To: sportav8r(at)gmail.com > > Bill, > > I am going to have to no-quote this due to the service. > > > Thanks, > > Lin > > > Standard 100 degree flare anodized aluminum AN fittings. > > Thanks. > > On 5/16/07, *Southeastern Hose, Inc.* > wrote: > > What type of end ftgs are you looking for? Material? > > > Lin Clayton > Southeastern Hose, Inc. > 506 Sangamore Road > P.O. Box 575 > Bremen, GA 30110 > 800-241-4818 > 770-537-5571 > 770-537-5573/Fax > www.sehose.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Bill Boyd > > *To:* info(at)sehose.com > > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 16, 2007 10:31 AM > > *Subject:* Attention Lin > > > Please quote the following hose assemblies (individually if possible) for > my experimental aircraft: > > dimensions are end-to-end, all fittings are straight, hose type is teflon > with SS braid (#124?), and all include firesleeving. > > Size 4 12" > Size 4 15" > Size 6 19" > Size 6 12" > Size 8 18" > Size 8 16" > Size 8 31" > > Please advise delivery time also. Thanks very much. > > Bill Boyd > 4915 McKinney Hollow Road > Clifton Forge, VA 24422 > 540-969-6466 > > > Lin Clayton > > Southeastern Hose, Inc. > > 506 Sangamore Road > > Bremen, GA 30110 > > 800-241-4818 > > www.sehose.com > > [image: logo[1]] > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2007
From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Which Plugs?
Can you elaborate on "better performance?" -Stormy On 5/16/07, dick martin wrote: > > > Ron, > I use Nippon Denso 27ESRU. I was able to achieve better performance over > the NGK plugs I used previously. > RV8, IO-390. 1500 plus hours, dual lightspeed igns. > Dick Martin > RV8 N233M > the fast one > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Ron Brown > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 15, 2007 5:22 PM > *Subject:* RV-List: Which Plugs? > > I need to buy a new set of plugs for my IO360 C1C - 200 HP. > > I have a Jeff Rose Electroair on the bottom plugs (REM37BY) - and a Slick > mag on the top plugs (REM38E). I've got 350 hours on them, cleaned and > regapped them during the condition inspection which I finished yesterday - > but now I've got some plugs that aren't firing 100%. (Some times it doesn't > pay to fix things that aren't broken!!! - it ran like a top all the way to > Lakeland and back!) > > I would like to use the NKG plugs that Klaus recommends with inserts. > The inserts are pricey but sure saves money down the road - but I need to > know what plugs to use? > > THANKS, > > Ronnie > > Velocity 173 Elite RG (well I do have a set of RV-6A plans! but I didn't > stay in the Holiday Inn Express) > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > * > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Southeast Hose bows out
Date: May 17, 2007
100 degrees is the angle of aircraft flush head C/S screws. Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Boyd To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:16 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Southeast Hose bows out Aha. So the ol' memory is unreliable now, is it? No surprise :-) I'll run it past him again. Where did I get 100 degrees from?! I do know it's not standard automotive flare. DOH! Sometimes I wonder if I should have been allowed to build an airplane. -Stormy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Southeast Hose bows out
Date: May 17, 2007
I doubt if it will do any good. He's saying he won't quote because of the type of service the hose will be used in - namely aircraft use. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Boyd Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:17 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Southeast Hose bows out Aha. So the ol' memory is unreliable now, is it? No surprise :-) I'll run it past him again. Where did I get 100 degrees from?! I do know it's not standard automotive flare. DOH! Sometimes I wonder if I should have been allowed to build an airplane. -Stormy On 5/17/07, Bruce Gray wrote: It should have been 37.5 degree flare. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Boyd Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 11:35 AM Subject: RV-List: Southeast Hose bows out Bryan Meyette, I don;t know what you told them, but here's what they said to me... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Lin Clayton < <mailto:lclayton(at)sehose.com> lclayton(at)sehose.com> Date: May 17, 2007 11:09 AM Subject: Bill, I am going to have to no-quote this due to the service. Thanks, Lin Standard 100 degree flare anodized aluminum AN fittings. Thanks. On 5/16/07, Southeastern Hose, Inc. > wrote: What type of end ftgs are you looking for? Material? Lin Clayton Southeastern Hose, Inc. 506 Sangamore Road P.O. Box 575 Bremen, GA 30110 800-241-4818 770-537-5571 770-537-5573/Fax www.sehose.com <http://www.sehose.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Boyd <mailto:sportav8r(at)gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 10:31 AM Subject: Attention Lin Please quote the following hose assemblies (individually if possible) for my experimental aircraft: dimensions are end-to-end, all fittings are straight, hose type is teflon with SS braid (#124?), and all include firesleeving. Size 4 12" Size 4 15" Size 6 19" Size 6 12" Size 8 18" Size 8 16" Size 8 31" Please advise delivery time also. Thanks very much. Bill Boyd 4915 McKinney Hollow Road Clifton Forge, VA 24422 540-969-6466 Lin Clayton Southeastern Hose, Inc. 506 Sangamore Road Bremen, GA 30110 800-241-4818 www.sehose.com logo[1] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic2(at)starband.net>
Subject: Southeast Hose bows out
Date: May 17, 2007
Hmmm odd I cant imagine what they mean by due to the service. Maybe it was the 100 degree typo Perhaps a phone call to them to straighten it out? Seems crazy (as they are or were Eggenfellner Subaru Aircrafts supplier), but sounds to me like the service refers to using them in an aircraft. Call SE & talk to Chris he took care of me OK Sorry if theyre being difficult they were ok for me brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Boyd Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 10:35 AM Subject: RV-List: Southeast Hose bows out Bryan Meyette, I don;t know what you told them, but here's what they said to me... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Lin Clayton < lclayton(at)sehose.com <mailto:lclayton(at)sehose.com> > Date: May 17, 2007 11:09 AM Subject: Bill, I am going to have to no-quote this due to the service. Thanks, Lin Standard 100 degree flare anodized aluminum AN fittings. Thanks. On 5/16/07, Southeastern Hose, Inc. < info(at)sehose.com > wrote: What type of end ftgs are you looking for? Material? Lin Clayton Southeastern Hose, Inc. 506 Sangamore Road P.O. Box 575 Bremen, GA 30110 800-241-4818 770-537-5571 770-537-5573/Fax www.sehose.com <http://www.sehose.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Boyd <mailto:sportav8r(at)gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 10:31 AM Subject: Attention Lin Please quote the following hose assemblies (individually if possible) for my experimental aircraft: dimensions are end-to-end, all fittings are straight, hose type is teflon with SS braid (#124?), and all include firesleeving. Size 4 12" Size 4 15" Size 6 19" Size 6 12" Size 8 18" Size 8 16" Size 8 31" Please advise delivery time also. Thanks very much. Bill Boyd 4915 McKinney Hollow Road Clifton Forge, VA 24422 540-969-6466 Lin Clayton Southeastern Hose, Inc. 506 Sangamore Road Bremen, GA 30110 800-241-4818 www.sehose.com <http://www.sehose.com> logo[1] 6:05 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2007
From: "Bob J." <rocketbob(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Southeast Hose bows out
Just tell them you need a JIC flare...same as AN. Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying F1 under const. On 5/17/07, Bruce Gray wrote: > > I doubt if it will do any good. He's saying he won't quote because of the > type of service the hose will be used in - namely aircraft use. > > > Bruce > www.glasair.org > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Boyd > *Sent:* Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:17 PM > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Southeast Hose bows out > > Aha. So the ol' memory is unreliable now, is it? No surprise :-) I'll > run it past him again. Where did I get 100 degrees from?! I do know it's > not standard automotive flare. DOH! > > Sometimes I wonder if I should have been allowed to build an airplane. > > -Stormy > > On 5/17/07, Bruce Gray wrote: > > > > It should have been 37.5 degree flare. > > > > > > > > Bruce > > www.glasair.org > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] > > *On Behalf Of *Bill Boyd > > *Sent:* Thursday, May 17, 2007 11:35 AM > > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > > *Subject:* RV-List: Southeast Hose bows out > > > > Bryan Meyette, I don;t know what you told them, but here's what they > > said to me... > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Lin Clayton < lclayton(at)sehose.com> > > Date: May 17, 2007 11:09 AM > > Subject: > > To: sportav8r(at)gmail.com > > > > Bill, > > > > I am going to have to no-quote this due to the service. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Lin > > > > > > > > Standard 100 degree flare anodized aluminum AN fittings. > > > > Thanks. > > > > On 5/16/07, *Southeastern Hose, Inc.* > > wrote: > > > > What type of end ftgs are you looking for? Material? > > > > > > > > Lin Clayton > > Southeastern Hose, Inc. > > 506 Sangamore Road > > P.O. Box 575 > > Bremen, GA 30110 > > 800-241-4818 > > 770-537-5571 > > 770-537-5573/Fax > > www.sehose.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > *From:* Bill Boyd > > > > *To:* info(at)sehose.com > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 16, 2007 10:31 AM > > > > *Subject:* Attention Lin > > > > > > > > Please quote the following hose assemblies (individually if possible) > > for my experimental aircraft: > > > > dimensions are end-to-end, all fittings are straight, hose type is > > teflon with SS braid (#124?), and all include firesleeving. > > > > Size 4 12" > > Size 4 15" > > Size 6 19" > > Size 6 12" > > Size 8 18" > > Size 8 16" > > Size 8 31" > > > > Please advise delivery time also. Thanks very much. > > > > Bill Boyd > > 4915 McKinney Hollow Road > > Clifton Forge, VA 24422 > > 540-969-6466 > > > > > > > > > > > > Lin Clayton > > > > Southeastern Hose, Inc. > > > > 506 Sangamore Road > > > > Bremen, GA 30110 > > > > 800-241-4818 > > > > www.sehose.com > > > > [image: logo[1]] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2007
From: John Fasching <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
Subject: Re: NGK Plugs Types
Right, Bob - I did some more reading, and the confusion is the non-standard numbering system makers use to show the heat range...as you said, some get hotter with higher numbers, some get colder with increasing numbers. I think I will put hotter plugs on the bottom, and next 'colder' on the top of each cylinder (using dual LSE ignition.) I see more dark stuff on the insulators of the plugs from the bottom and suspect a hotter plug might be best there. John Bob J. wrote: > NGK's go colder at the number goes up, opposite of Champions. If you > take a look at the BR8ES plugs vs. the BR9ES plugs, the BR9ES have a > shorter electrode, hence they're colder. I've use either in the RV > with no problems. > > http://www.kaila.net/tl125/tl125ngkcode.html > > Regards, > Bob Japundza > RV-6 flying F1 under const. > > On 5/16/07, *John Fasching* > wrote: > > > > > > John Fasching wrote: > n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com > > > > > I lost info on the difference between NGK BR9ES and BR8ES spark > plugs. > > I 'think" I have used both at one time or another with LSE EI, > but am > > now seeking specs on the difference...help anyone? > > > > John > > OK I found the data...the "9" are a higher temperature plug...the > NKG's > are rated 2 for coolest and 11 for the hottest. Seems snow > mobilers and > boaters know a lot about plugs. > > * > > > * > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Southeast Hose bows out
Date: May 17, 2007
Bob's recommendation is a good one - JIC implies its for hydraulic use instead of the AN tip off. Also, rather than tell a complete falsehood, I always claim the product is for an "off - road - vehicle" - most do not think of aircraft with that usage. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob J. To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 1:06 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Southeast Hose bows out Just tell them you need a JIC flare...same as AN. Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying F1 under const. On 5/17/07, Bruce Gray < Bruce(at)glasair.org> wrote: I doubt if it will do any good. He's saying he won't quote because of the type of service the hose will be used in - namely aircraft use. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Boyd Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:17 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Southeast Hose bows out Aha. So the ol' memory is unreliable now, is it? No surprise :-) I'll run it past him again. Where did I get 100 degrees from?! I do know it's not standard automotive flare. DOH! Sometimes I wonder if I should have been allowed to build an airplane. -Stormy On 5/17/07, Bruce Gray wrote: It should have been 37.5 degree flare. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Boyd Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 11:35 AM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Southeast Hose bows out Bryan Meyette, I don;t know what you told them, but here's what they said to me... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Lin Clayton < lclayton(at)sehose.com> Date: May 17, 2007 11:09 AM Subject: To: sportav8r(at)gmail.com Bill, I am going to have to no-quote this due to the service. Thanks, Lin Standard 100 degree flare anodized aluminum AN fittings. Thanks. On 5/16/07, Southeastern Hose, Inc. wrote: What type of end ftgs are you looking for? Material? Lin Clayton Southeastern Hose, Inc. 506 Sangamore Road P.O. Box 575 Bremen, GA 30110 800-241-4818 770-537-5571 770-537-5573/Fax www.sehose.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Boyd To: info(at)sehose.com Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 10:31 AM Subject: Attention Lin Please quote the following hose assemblies (individually if possible) for my experimental aircraft: dimensions are end-to-end, all fittings are straight, hose type is teflon with SS braid (#124?), and all include firesleeving. Size 4 12" Size 4 15" Size 6 19" Size 6 12" Size 8 18" Size 8 16" Size 8 31" Please advise delivery time also. Thanks very much. Bill Boyd 4915 McKinney Hollow Road Clifton Forge, VA 24422 540-969-6466 Lin Clayton Southeastern Hose, Inc. 506 Sangamore Road Bremen, GA 30110 800-241-4818 www.sehose.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2007
From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Southeast Hose bows out
All your observations are correct; his final reply is that they're just not "into aircraft applications." I could try the phone call to Chris and ask for a JIC flare hose for an offroad vehicle. -Stormy On 5/17/07, Ed Anderson wrote: > > Bob's recommendation is a good one - JIC implies its for hydraulic use > instead of the AN tip off. Also, rather than tell a complete falsehood, I > always claim the product is for an "off - road - vehicle" - most do not > think of aircraft with that usage. > > Ed > > Ed Anderson > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > Matthews, NC > eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Bob J. > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Thursday, May 17, 2007 1:06 PM > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Southeast Hose bows out > > Just tell them you need a JIC flare...same as AN. > > Regards, > Bob Japundza > RV-6 flying F1 under const. > > On 5/17/07, Bruce Gray < Bruce(at)glasair.org> wrote: > > > > I doubt if it will do any good. He's saying he won't quote because of > > the type of service the hose will be used in - namely aircraft use. > > > > > > > > Bruce > > www.glasair.org > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] > > *On Behalf Of *Bill Boyd > > *Sent:* Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:17 PM > > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Southeast Hose bows out > > > > Aha. So the ol' memory is unreliable now, is it? No surprise :-) I'll > > run it past him again. Where did I get 100 degrees from?! I do know it's > > not standard automotive flare. DOH! > > > > Sometimes I wonder if I should have been allowed to build an airplane. > > > > -Stormy > > > > On 5/17/07, Bruce Gray wrote: > > > > > > It should have been 37.5 degree flare. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruce > > > www.glasair.org > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] > > > *On Behalf Of *Bill Boyd > > > *Sent:* Thursday, May 17, 2007 11:35 AM > > > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > > > *Subject:* RV-List: Southeast Hose bows out > > > > > > Bryan Meyette, I don;t know what you told them, but here's what they > > > said to me... > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > From: Lin Clayton < lclayton(at)sehose.com> > > > Date: May 17, 2007 11:09 AM > > > Subject: > > > To: sportav8r(at)gmail.com > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > I am going to have to no-quote this due to the service. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > Standard 100 degree flare anodized aluminum AN fittings. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > On 5/16/07, *Southeastern Hose, Inc.* > > > wrote: > > > > > > What type of end ftgs are you looking for? Material? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lin Clayton > > > Southeastern Hose, Inc. > > > 506 Sangamore Road > > > P.O. Box 575 > > > Bremen, GA 30110 > > > 800-241-4818 > > > 770-537-5571 > > > 770-537-5573/Fax > > > www.sehose.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > *From:* Bill Boyd > > > > > > *To:* info(at)sehose.com > > > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 16, 2007 10:31 AM > > > > > > *Subject:* Attention Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > Please quote the following hose assemblies (individually if possible) > > > for my experimental aircraft: > > > > > > dimensions are end-to-end, all fittings are straight, hose type is > > > teflon with SS braid (#124?), and all include firesleeving. > > > > > > Size 4 12" > > > Size 4 15" > > > Size 6 19" > > > Size 6 12" > > > Size 8 18" > > > Size 8 16" > > > Size 8 31" > > > > > > Please advise delivery time also. Thanks very much. > > > > > > Bill Boyd > > > 4915 McKinney Hollow Road > > > Clifton Forge, VA 24422 > > > 540-969-6466 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lin Clayton > > > > > > Southeastern Hose, Inc. > > > > > > 506 Sangamore Road > > > > > > Bremen, GA 30110 > > > > > > 800-241-4818 > > > > > > www.sehose.com > > > > > > [image: logo[1]] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jbker(at)juno.com" <jbker(at)juno.com>
Date: May 19, 2007
Subject: cato prop non responsive
Is it just me or is this typical? I've called and left messages and ema iled Craig and have had zero reponse. Does anyone know why?? Bernie Kerr, need prop for 9A 150 HP
Is it just me or is this typical? I've called and left me ssages and emailed Craig and have had zero reponse. Does anyone know why ??

Bernie Kerr, need prop for 9A 150 HP

________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Garry" <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: cato prop non responsive
Date: May 18, 2007
This aviation business we're in is populated with very small entrepreneurs, many are one-man businesses. The good ones are overwhelmed with getting the product out the door, and have little time for "administrative" work. We're not dealing with large corporations here, just little guys working out of their garages. Accept it for what it is. Craig is a super nice guy, very honest, very trustworthy, and stands behind his product 100%. And he puts out a very nice product. My suggestion is to just keep telephoning. Sooner or later he'll pick up that phone. Garry ----- Original Message ----- From: jbker(at)juno.com To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:38 PM Subject: RV-List: cato prop non responsive Is it just me or is this typical? I've called and left messages and emailed Craig and have had zero reponse. Does anyone know why?? Bernie Kerr, need prop for 9A 150 HP ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: May 18, 2007
Subject: Re: cato prop non responsive
Hi Bernie- It seems Mr. Catto has a product in great demand within the RV community, and an impressive backorder to fill. Be persistent- it's worth it. I'm quite pleased with my 3-blade after 415+ hours (150 hp -6A) but if you need a prop soon, maybe another source would be quicker! Last I heard, his deliveries were running as much as 9 months from order, but I haven't communicated in over a year, so it may be worse. Good luck! Mark _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5124_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5124) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2007
From: Steve Eberhart <steve(at)newtech.com>
Subject: Re: cato prop non responsive
I also have a Catto prop on order and have been unsuccessful in contacting Craig. Others have said that they have recently talked to him. Earlier in the week I mailed a SASE asking about the status. Will let you know if I hear back from him. I am not worried yet but he does have $1,000 of mine. Steve Eberhart RV-7A, on the gear, O-360-A1A mounted and working on the slider. jbker(at)juno.com wrote: > > Is it just me or is this typical? I've called and left messages and > emailed Craig and have had zero reponse. Does anyone know why?? > > Bernie Kerr, need prop for 9A 150 HP > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: cato prop non responsive
Date: May 19, 2007
My suggestion is to assume a one year delivery and specify a date based upon his stated delivery time. If you need it next May then order now with a estimated delivery date in Feb 2008. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "sportypilot" <sportypilot(at)stx.rr.com>
Subject: cato prop non responsive
Date: May 19, 2007
I am sure he is working his butt off trying to get out props and raising his kids alone, it's a huge job You won't find a better person or a better quality prop , WORKS OF ART! .. I have the same 150hp engine and Three blade catto.. rv9a slider , fixing to start her up for the 1st time in a couple weeks.. so close to flying its starting to get excited / scared at the same time.. order way in advance.. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jbker(at)juno.com Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:38 PM Subject: RV-List: cato prop non responsive Is it just me or is this typical? I've called and left messages and emailed Craig and have had zero reponse. Does anyone know why?? Bernie Kerr, need prop for 9A 150 HP ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 2007
From: kirt klevin <rv6aokcity(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV Flight Bags (another shameless plug)
Hello All, Had some RV specific bags I have been selling and thought I would drop the info on the list if anyone is interested. I've pasted the information below. If you are interested in either of these products please email me at BisonMountain(at)yahoo.com and I'll get an order form emailed back to you. Thanks! Kurt OKC, OK Bison Mountain Chart Case: As you know, the key to keeping everything you need within reach in a small cockpit can be a challenge to say the least. Our new Chart Case is designed to fit on the floor, between the pilot and passenger, of your RV or production aircraft. It allows your approach charts, enroute charts, sectionals, WACs, pencils, flashlights, hand held radios, and other miscellaneous items to be stored in easy reach without having to climb over your seat to reach items in your cargo area. The Chart Case is 10.5 inches long, 8.75 in high, and 4.5 in wide and weighs 1 pound, 4 oz. The main compartment has a durable double zipper that allows full access to the interior. The Chart Case has 410 cubic inches of storage area and comes with a divider that can be adjusted to hold any combination of items. The divider is adjustable to any number of dimensions and will create 2 interior pockets as small as 2 inches on one side and 8 on the other and every dimension in between. The divider can also be removed to make the bag one large compartment. The interior divider and main compartment double zipper also allows one top compartment to remain open for often used items (approach charts), and the remaining compartment zipped closed. The extra portion of the top cover is tucked neatly next to the divider and less used items are out of view and your cockpit will look sharp and organized. .The Chart Case has two side map pockets designed to fit checklists, flight computers, calculators, sectionals, WACs, and Jeppesen or NOS enroute charts. Both of these pockets have Velcro straps to keep your items locked in while transporting the Chart Case. The rear pocket of the Chart Case has a zippered 4 inch by 6.5 inch pocket for just about anything. The front of the Chart Case has a multi-purpose holder for pens, pencils, smaller flashlights, and fuel strainers. Attached to the front of the case is a durable carrying handle that makes inserting and removing the Chart Case simple. A removable over the shoulder carrying strap is also included. The chart case is made of the same durable Curdura material found in our RV Flight Bags and is also available in grey and black. The Bison Mountain Chart Case sells for $49 Pictures of the Chart Case can be viewed at: http://profile.imageshack.us/user/RVChartCase Bison Mountain RV Flight Bag Our RV Flight Bag was designed to fit behind the pilots and co-pilots seat of the RV-6/7/9. It fits over the flap actuator bar and makes maximum use of the area behind your seat. This keeps the CG as far forward as possible and maximizes remaining cargo space. The RV Flight Bag is 18 inches high and 12.5 inches wide. It has a very large main cargo area easily accessible with a large zipper flap. There are two side pockets, one 10" x 4 " and a 7" x 5.5 map pocket. The rear side of the bag has a pencil/flashlight/fuel tester pocket, a 10 inch x 7 inch headset pocket, and a 6x 5 pocket for small tools. The material and zippers are heavy duty and will last a long time. The bag is made of durable Curdura and is resistant to liquids. It has a nice carrying handle and comes with two straps that can be attached to your seat back to clip the bag to your seat to minimize movement. It also comes with a removable shoulder strap. The RV Flight Bag sells for $89 plus shipping. Two bags or more are $85 each. They are available in black and gray. Its a nice way to clean up the cargo area and looks great too. Pictures of the RV Flight Bag can be viewed at: http://profile.imageshack.us/user/rvflightbags --------------------------------- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: cato prop non responsive
Date: May 19, 2007
On 19 May 2007, at 00:38, jbker(at)juno.com wrote: > Is it just me or is this typical? I've called and left messages > and emailed Craig and have had zero reponse. Does anyone know why?? Bernie, see: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=17607 He is completely swamped with orders. Kevin Horton RV-8 (Finishing Kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV Flight Bags (another shameless plug)
Date: May 20, 2007
I have the Flight Case and it is a must have! The shape matches the slope contour of the seat back so it snugs up behind the seat and protrudes minimally into the baggage compartment leaving lots of room. It has numerous zippered pockets, pleated pockets for pens or pencils, flashlight, fuel tester, etc. Store you canopy cover, tie downs, tool kit, extra quart of oil, headsets, and whatever with ease. Absolutely unclutters your baggage compartment!! These are very high quality proffessionally made units and worth every penny. And the usual, I am a customer and don't profit from this prouduct. Jerry Calvert RV6 ----- Original Message ----- From: kirt klevin To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 7:14 PM Subject: RV-List: RV Flight Bags (another shameless plug) Hello All, Had some RV specific bags I have been selling and thought I would drop the info on the list if anyone is interested. I've pasted the information below. If you are interested in either of these products please email me at BisonMountain(at)yahoo.com and I'll get an order form emailed back to you. Thanks! Kurt OKC, OK Bison Mountain Chart Case: As you know, the key to keeping everything you need within reach in a small cockpit can be a challenge to say the least. Our new Chart Case is designed to fit on the floor, between the pilot and passenger, of your RV or production aircraft. It allows your approach charts, enroute charts, sectionals, WAC's, pencils, flashlights, hand held radios, and other miscellaneous items to be stored in easy reach without having to climb over your seat to reach items in your cargo area. The Chart Case is 10.5 inches long, 8.75 in high, and 4.5 in wide and weighs 1 pound, 4 oz. The main compartment has a durable double zipper that allows full access to the interior. The Chart Case has 410 cubic inches of storage area and comes with a divider that can be adjusted to hold any combination of items. The divider is adjustable to any number of dimensions and will create 2 interior pockets as small as 2 inches on one side and 8 on the other and every dimension in between. The divider can also be removed to make the bag one large compartment. The interior divider and main compartment double zipper also allows one top compartment to remain open for often used items (approach charts), and the remaining compartment zipped closed. The extra portion of the top cover is tucked neatly next to the divider and less used items are out of view and your cockpit will look sharp and organized. .The Chart Case has two side map pockets designed to fit checklists, flight computers, calculators, sectionals, WAC's, and Jeppesen or NOS enroute charts. Both of these pockets have Velcro straps to keep your items locked in while transporting the Chart Case. The rear pocket of the Chart Case has a zippered 4 inch by 6.5 inch pocket for just about anything. The front of the Chart Case has a multi-purpose holder for pens, pencils, smaller flashlights, and fuel strainers. Attached to the front of the case is a durable carrying handle that makes inserting and removing the Chart Case simple. A removable over the shoulder carrying strap is also included. The chart case is made of the same durable Curdura material found in our RV Flight Bags and is also available in grey and black. The Bison Mountain Chart Case sells for $49 Pictures of the Chart Case can be viewed at: http://profile.imageshack.us/user/RVChartCase Bison Mountain RV Flight Bag Our RV Flight Bag was designed to fit behind the pilots and co-pilots seat of the RV-6/7/9. It fits over the flap actuator bar and makes maximum use of the area behind your seat. This keeps the CG as far forward as possible and maximizes remaining cargo space. The RV Flight Bag is 18 inches high and 12.5 inches wide. It has a very large main cargo area easily accessible with a large zipper flap. There are two side pockets, one 10" x 4 " and a 7" x 5.5" map pocket. The rear side of the bag has a pencil/flashlight/fuel tester pocket, a 10 inch x 7 inch headset pocket, and a 6"x 5 =BC" pocket for small tools. The material and zippers are heavy duty and will last a long time. The bag is made of durable Curdura and is resistant to liquids. It has a nice carrying handle and comes with two straps that can be attached to your seat back to clip the bag to your seat to minimize movement. It also comes with a removable shoulder strap. The RV Flight Bag sells for $89 plus shipping. Two bags or more are $85 each. They are available in black and gray. It's a nice way to clean up the cargo area and looks great too. Pictures of the RV Flight Bag can be viewed at: http://profile.imageshack.us/user/rvflightbags ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2007
From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: cato prop non responsive
It seems like alot of people are waiting for these props and can not contact the manufacture. How did you ever get a hold of him to order the prop, I'm guessing a web site? Then you sent him $1000 without ever talking to him and getting a estimated delivery date? It seems like all the orders do finally get delivered but I would really want to talk to him and get a realistic delivery date from him before sending him a check up front. I sent money up front for my interior from Classic Aero but I talked to the manufacture on the phone and was given a delivery date each time I ordered something from him. I received order within a couple days of the date I was given, usally before. He also answered the phone every time I called to place the order. If I was going to order a Cato prop I would call to order it, if no one ever answered the phone I would think real hard about sending money to him. Yes this is just my opinion :-) Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm Kevin Horton wrote: > > On 19 May 2007, at 00:38, jbker(at)juno.com wrote: > >> Is it just me or is this typical? I've called and left messages and >> emailed Craig and have had zero reponse. Does anyone know why?? >> > Bernie, see: > > http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=17607 > > He is completely swamped with orders. > > Kevin Horton > RV-8 (Finishing Kit) > Ottawa, Canada > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jbker(at)juno.com" <jbker(at)juno.com>
Date: May 20, 2007
Subject: cato prop non responsive
I am sure he is working his butt off trying to get out prop s and raising his kids alone, it=92s a huge job You won=92t find a better person or a better quality prop , W ORKS OF ART! .. I have the same 150hp engine and Three blade catto.. rv9a slider , fixing to start her up fo r the 1st time in a couple weeks.. so close to flying its starting to get excited / scared at the same time.. order way in advance.. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Would love to have one of his props on the plane, but the airplane has f lown 60 hours with rotary and am converting it to lycoming to sell becau se of medical issues. Do not wish to wait 9-12 months for a prop to sell . thanks for all the input from the RV list Bernie

    ;        I am sure he is working his butt off trying to get out props and raising his kids alone, it=92s a hu ge job

    ;        You won=92t find a better pe rson or a better quality prop , WORKS OF ART! .. I have the same 1 50hp engine and

    ;         Three blade catt o.. rv9a slider , fixing to start her up for the 1^st time in a couple weeks..

    ;         so close to flyi ng its starting to get excited / scared at the same time.. order w ay in advance..

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Would love to have one of his props on the plane, but the airplane ha s flown 60 hours with rotary and am converting it to lycoming to sell be cause of medical issues. Do not wish to wait 9-12 months for a prop to s ell.

thanks for all the input from the RV list
Bernie

________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2007
From: Roger Embree <rembree(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: 3 Blade Wooden Props
I had an Aymar Demuth prop and always parked it in the horizontal position to prevent moisture from migrating to the low end. I am just wondering what you do with a 3-blade wooden prop and if anyone has noticed any balance changes over time. Roger Embree ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: May 20, 2007
Subject: Re: 3 Blade Wooden Props
In a message dated 5/20/2007 10:43:06 AM Central Daylight Time, rembree(at)sympatico.ca writes: am just wondering what you do with a 3-blade wooden prop and if anyone has noticed any balance changes over time. >>> Catto seals his props in a layer of fiberglass and bonds an aluminum plate on the back where it bolts up. They are well sealed and he told me you don't really need to check it every xx hours for bolt torque. I have checked mine after Phase I and each annual, and the bolts have never loosened. Seems like a waste of safety wire... Can't speak for other brands, but Performance Props was the only other builder of wood 3-blades when I got my Catto, but there may be others- Mark _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2007
From: kirt klevin <rv6aokcity(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV Flight Bags
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2007
From: Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com>
Subject: Catto Prop
I have a Catto 3 bladed prop for a 160 HP RV (66x72) that I might be convinced to part with... It's complete, flywheel forward.....spacer, bolts, prop, spinner... http://www.rv8a.com/engine/catto/catto4.jpg -Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jbker(at)juno.com" <jbker(at)juno.com>
Date: May 21, 2007
Subject: Re: Catto Prop
Bill, how much convincing ($$$) does it take? :>) Bernie
Bill, how much convincing ($$$) does it take? :>)

Bernie

________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2007
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Subject: cato prop
Why don't you try a Sterba two blade wood prop. Ed makes a pretty darn good prop at approximately one third the price of the Catto and his lead times last year were only a couple months. His phone number: 941-778-3103 ------------------Original Message ---------------------------------------- > 1. 05:02 AM - Re: cato prop non responsive (Ron Lee) > 2. 04:50 PM - Re: cato prop non responsive (sportypilot) > 3. 05:15 PM - RV Flight Bags (another shameless plug) (kirt klevin) > 4. 05:47 PM - Re: cato prop non responsive (Kevin Horton) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "McFarland, Randy" <Randy.McFarland(at)novellus.com>
Subject: Into - Out of Vancouver BC
Date: May 21, 2007
Looking for any advice/input anyone would care to volunteer about flying from US into and out of Vancouver, BC. I have read the AOPA info. on cross border requirements, but would like to hear from been there / done that experience. I'll be flying from NorCal into Victoria Intl. CYYJ which is an AOE. Coming back I'll be stopping in Eugene, Ore KEUG, then on to San Jose, Ca. Was planning on using Portland-Hillsboro (KHIO) as returning AOE. Any advice/help is appreciated. Randy 7A 78 hours E16 http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">

Looking for any advice/input anyone would care to volunteer about flying from US into and out of Vancouver, BC.

I have read the AOPA info. on cross border requirements, but would like to hear from been there / done that experience.

I’ll be flying from NorCal into Victoria Intl. CYYJ which is an AOE. Coming back I’ll be stopping in Eugene, Ore KEUG, then on to San Jose, Ca. Was planning on using Portland-Hillsboro (KHIO) as returning AOE.

Any advice/help is appreciated.

Randy

7A 78 hours E16

________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: Into - Out of Vancouver BC
Date: May 21, 2007
Randy, Be sure to take your passport. This is a fairly recent requirement that so far applies to those flying across the border but not driving. Also, I'm a little surprised that you intend to check in back in the US in Oregon and not Washington. Maybe it doesn't matter, but I thought it was normal practice to check in at one of the nearest to the border US airports, such as Bellingham or Friday Harbor. Terry _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of McFarland, Randy Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 11:05 AM Subject: RV-List: Into - Out of Vancouver BC Looking for any advice/input anyone would care to volunteer about flying from US into and out of Vancouver, BC. I have read the AOPA info. on cross border requirements, but would like to hear from been there / done that experience. I'll be flying from NorCal into Victoria Intl. CYYJ which is an AOE. Coming back I'll be stopping in Eugene, Ore KEUG, then on to San Jose, Ca. Was planning on using Portland-Hillsboro (KHIO) as returning AOE. Any advice/help is appreciated. Randy 7A 78 hours E16 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dwight Frye <dwight(at)openweave.org>
Subject: Tip-Up Canopy Query
Date: May 21, 2007
I am currently working my way slowly through the canopy frame fitting exercise. It is going well (after a long delay due to a kitchen remodel that took 3 months) but I'm not -quite- there, and want advice. In general the fit along the split between the forward top skin and the skin on the canopy frame is good. At least the amount of gap is good. As I move out from the center, past where the 'goose-neck hinges' go, the canopy frame skin starts to ride a little high. In the center I have it shimmed so that it is intentionally a little high, of course, to clear the forward skin. But along those curves leading down to the side of the fuselage I need to either lower the canopy frame skin, or shim up the forward skin. Either works for me. On the left-hand side (facing forward) it is almost perfect. I have less than 1/64th of an inch of gap and am quite happy. On the right-hand side (again, facing forward) I'm not so happy. I have about 1/16th of an inch of gap and I'd like to close that a bit. A suggestion I got from Scott Risan was to shave down the canopy frame bow along the front such that there is less distance for the skin to cover, and thus pulling that problem edge down lower. I have done that a _tiny_ bit, but before I shaved more off of the frame I thought I'd solicit any other input from the collected wisdom of the list. If I can close that 1/16 inch gap, I'll call it good enough and will be ready to drill the hinges and move on. I really really want to move on. So ... help! :) Anyone got any more advice beyond what Scott suggested? If so, I'm all ears. -- Dwight ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Burton" <d-burton(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Into - Out of Vancouver BC
Date: May 21, 2007
Take a look here Randy: http://www.vansairforce.org/misc/us_arrive/ _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of McFarland, Randy Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 11:05 AM Subject: RV-List: Into - Out of Vancouver BC Looking for any advice/input anyone would care to volunteer about flying from US into and out of Vancouver, BC. I have read the AOPA info. on cross border requirements, but would like to hear from been there / done that experience. I'll be flying from NorCal into Victoria Intl. CYYJ which is an AOE. Coming back I'll be stopping in Eugene, Ore KEUG, then on to San Jose, Ca. Was planning on using Portland-Hillsboro (KHIO) as returning AOE. Any advice/help is appreciated. Randy 7A 78 hours E16 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall E Russell" <rer51(at)netscape.ca>
Subject: Shameless Ad-Great Deals
Date: May 21, 2007
I am finishing a RV9A. My panel plans have changed dramatically. I have placed 12 items on eBay, guages, avionics,etc. Just go to eBay.com , search for item # 220113195029 and view "sellers other items" for the entire list. Great items, just no longer needed. Randy Russell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: May 22, 2007
Subject: Sniffle Valve
I am installing a Lycoming sniffle valve (included in Vans FWF kit) to an Aerosport IO-360 and would like to confirm its intended operation. I "think" it is basically a check valve that should open when manifold pressure is equal to atmospheric (engine not running) to drain any fuel pooled in the sump. Engine running, it should close when manifold pressure drops. The valve I have flows freely when blowing into the sump side, but still passes a bit of air when blown into from the tube side, which I surmise would constitute a small vacuum leak and possible leaner than normal operation. Is this normal? Thanks- Mark ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Date: May 22, 2007
Subject: Re: cato prop
You could try an MT fixed pitch 2 blade propeller. SST leading edge protection, just like the constant speed propeller blades. Those that have tried them, speak very highly of them. My phone number is 805-795-5377. I'm sure someone will recognize this is SPAM. Live with it. Jim Ayers Less Drag Products, Inc. Some people need to be told when there is a better product available. :-) In a message dated 05/20/2007 9:14:27 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net writes: --> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Why don't you try a Sterba two blade wood prop. Ed makes a pretty darn good prop at approximately one third the price of the Catto and his lead times last year were only a couple months. His phone number: 941-778-3103 ------------------Original Message ---------------------------------------- > 1. 05:02 AM - Re: cato prop non responsive (Ron Lee) > 2. 04:50 PM - Re: cato prop non responsive (sportypilot) > 3. 05:15 PM - RV Flight Bags (another shameless plug) (kirt klevin) > 4. 05:47 PM - Re: cato prop non responsive (Kevin Horton) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2007
Subject: Sniffle Valve
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Mark I believe that the sniffle valve is for carburated engines. Its purpose is to remove any fuel that might pool in the bottom of the air cleaner from to vigorous application of the throttle during starting. That is the fire hazard. With fuel injection, fuel is only put into the engine at the intake valve. It will be difficult but possible to get fuel to run back down and into the air cleaner area. Pumping the throttle during start will not add any additional fuel to the slow moving air stream. IMHO, anything is possible but with FI, you will have flooded the engine seriously. to get in that condition. I could be wrong in these scenarios but I am not installing one in my IO 360. Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2007
Subject: Builder's Bookstore Bargain Basement
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Andy, I would be interested in the "speed with economy" book. How shall we do the transaction? Jim Nelson ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2007
From: Steve A <stevea(at)svpal.org>
Subject: Re: Tip-Up Canopy Query
Dwight, If I understand Scott's suggestion, trimming the canopy frame will reduce the flange thickness......the flange the canopy skin rivets to. You can probably get away with some trimming, the question is how much trimming before running the risk of the frame cracking later. My canopy frame has the same problem on the right side. It sits about 1/32 high (if I remember correctly.......the canopy is off the fuselage at the moment). The left side and center fit flush. I have seen similar conditions to varying degrees on some other tip up canopy RVs. You could trim the canopy frame, and add a doubler angle on the inside of the frame flange. The doubler angle rivets to the forward facing canopy frame web, and the canopy frame flange/canopy skin joint. The trick is to make a doubler angle that fits inside the canopy frame channel and follows the skin curvature. It can be done, but will take a bit of work I would opt for shimming the forward skin rather than trimming the canopy frame. Shimming sounds like the easiest way out of this particular swamp (other than doing nothing and living with the gap....but I understand how tough that is!) . :-) good luck, Steve RV-6A - tip up Dwight Frye wrote: > On the left-hand side (facing forward) it is almost perfect. I have less > than 1/64th of an inch of gap and am quite happy. On the right-hand side > (again, facing forward) I'm not so happy. I have about 1/16th of an inch > of gap and I'd like to close that a bit. > > A suggestion I got from Scott Risan was to shave down the canopy frame > bow along the front such that there is less distance for the skin to > cover, and thus pulling that problem edge down lower. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "don wentz" <dasduck(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Sniffle Valve
Date: May 22, 2007
Mark, to theorize on your original question: My sump has 2 of the valves, one on each side, and no amount of cleaning them gets a 'perfect seal'. Considering the 'design' of the sumps, if the valve does leak a bit, it's likely a very small percentage of airflow in, and, affects all cylinders the same, so I would 'think' that it isn't going to adversely affect your mixture, especially since you are dynamically adjusting the mixture all the time and 'monitoring' the end result. I have wondered about this as well, and plugging the outlets completely yielded no discernible difference in operation. Don _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fiveonepw(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 11:27 PM Subject: RV-List: Sniffle Valve I am installing a Lycoming sniffle valve (included in Vans FWF kit) to an Aerosport IO-360 and would like to confirm its intended operation. I "think" it is basically a check valve that should open when manifold pressure is equal to atmospheric (engine not running) to drain any fuel pooled in the sump. Engine running, it should close when manifold pressure drops. The valve I have flows freely when blowing into the sump side, but still passes a bit of air when blown into from the tube side, which I surmise would constitute a small vacuum leak and possible leaner than normal operation. Is this normal? Thanks- Mark _____ See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2007
From: Dan Reeves <n516dr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tip-Up Canopy Query
Dwight, My frame was also a bit high outboard of the gooseneck's on both sides. Not only was the canopy skin high in comparison to the front skin but the front end of the side rails also extended a bit beyond the sides of the fuselage. This of course was after all of the riveting was done. Everything lined up perfectly and was flush on the sides before riveting. I ended up wrapping a tie-down strap around the entire front bow of the frame and ratcheted everything into alignment. The front corners of the frame were pulled downward and inward such that there is no gap in the skins up front and the front of the side rails are now flush with sides of the fuselage. Worked for me. Another approach might be to drill out the rivets of the joining plate in the center of the frame and also from the tabs on the sides and replace / redrill these such that the sides of the frame are pulled inward / downward more. Good luck,,,shims / filler may be the best way to go for small variances though. Just thought I'd present some other options. Dan RV-7A wiring Dwight Frye wrote: I am currently working my way slowly through the canopy frame fitting exercise. It is going well (after a long delay due to a kitchen remodel that took 3 months) but I'm not -quite- there, and want advice. In general the fit along the split between the forward top skin and the skin on the canopy frame is good. At least the amount of gap is good. As I move out from the center, past where the 'goose-neck hinges' go, the canopy frame skin starts to ride a little high. In the center I have it shimmed so that it is intentionally a little high, of course, to clear the forward skin. But along those curves leading down to the side of the fuselage I need to either lower the canopy frame skin, or shim up the forward skin. Either works for me. On the left-hand side (facing forward) it is almost perfect. I have less than 1/64th of an inch of gap and am quite happy. On the right-hand side (again, facing forward) I'm not so happy. I have about 1/16th of an inch of gap and I'd like to close that a bit. A suggestion I got from Scott Risan was to shave down the canopy frame bow along the front such that there is less distance for the skin to cover, and thus pulling that problem edge down lower. I have done that a _tiny_ bit, but before I shaved more off of the frame I thought I'd solicit any other input from the collected wisdom of the list. If I can close that 1/16 inch gap, I'll call it good enough and will be ready to drill the hinges and move on. I really really want to move on. So ... help! :) Anyone got any more advice beyond what Scott suggested? If so, I'm all ears. -- Dwight --------------------------------- Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dwight Frye <dwight(at)openweave.org>
Subject: Re: Tip-Up Canopy Query
Date: May 22, 2007
Yeah ... Scott also said that it would reduce the flange thickness, but that it was pretty beefy material and could take some thinning without harm. I wasn't able to pin him down on a specific amount, though. :) At this point I don't think I'm even close to thinning it too much, but I am going at it -very- cautiously. As far as fixing the mis-match on the forward edge of the canopy skin goes, I agree that shimming is the easy solution. The gap I'm having trouble figuring out how to close (and it is hard to describe, maybe I need a picture) is the gap between the fuselage side skin, and the right-hand (looking forward) _bottom_ edge of the tip-up canopy skin. This is the edge that runs from the front bottom corner of the tip-up canopy skin along the side rails of the fuselage. I hope to fiddle with this more tonight, but am looking for any insight folks might have to offer. It may be the case that I'm not the FIRST to say that they'll glad when they are done with canopy, but I will be. :) Thanks for the input!! -- Dwight On Tue May 22 13:30:01 2007, Steve A wrote : > > >Dwight, > >If I understand Scott's suggestion, trimming the canopy frame will >reduce the flange thickness......the flange the canopy skin rivets to. >You can probably get away with some trimming, the question is how much >trimming before running the risk of the frame cracking later. > >My canopy frame has the same problem on the right side. It sits about >1/32 high (if I remember correctly.......the canopy is off the fuselage >at the moment). The left side and center fit flush. I have seen >similar conditions to varying degrees on some other tip up canopy RVs. > >You could trim the canopy frame, and add a doubler angle on the inside >of the frame flange. The doubler angle rivets to the forward facing >canopy frame web, and the canopy frame flange/canopy skin joint. The >trick is to make a doubler angle that fits inside the canopy frame >channel and follows the skin curvature. It can be done, but will take a >bit of work > >I would opt for shimming the forward skin rather than trimming the >canopy frame. Shimming sounds like the easiest way out of this >particular swamp (other than doing nothing and living with the >gap....but I understand how tough that is!) . :-) > >good luck, >Steve >RV-6A - tip up > > >Dwight Frye wrote: >> On the left-hand side (facing forward) it is almost perfect. I have less >> than 1/64th of an inch of gap and am quite happy. On the right-hand side >> (again, facing forward) I'm not so happy. I have about 1/16th of an inch >> of gap and I'd like to close that a bit. >> >> A suggestion I got from Scott Risan was to shave down the canopy frame >> bow along the front such that there is less distance for the skin to >> cover, and thus pulling that problem edge down lower. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <av8er2fly(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Sniffle Valve
Date: May 22, 2007
My sniffle valve did not come with the FWF kit, it was a add on, glad to hear they are now in the kit. IO360 RV8A 116 hrs and loving the plane. Mark Rose 137MR ----- Original Message ----- From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 11:27 PM Subject: RV-List: Sniffle Valve I am installing a Lycoming sniffle valve (included in Vans FWF kit) to an Aerosport IO-360 and would like to confirm its intended operation. I "think" it is basically a check valve that should open when manifold pressure is equal to atmospheric (engine not running) to drain any fuel pooled in the sump. Engine running, it should close when manifold pressure drops. The valve I have flows freely when blowing into the sump side, but still passes a bit of air when blown into from the tube side, which I surmise would constitute a small vacuum leak and possible leaner than normal operation. Is this normal? Thanks- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See what's free at AOL.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2007
From: Steve A <stevea(at)svpal.org>
Subject: Re: Tip-Up Canopy Query
Ahh, now I understand what edge we're talking about. How about using an edge rolling tool or hand seamer to put a slight bend the the top skin that overhangs the canopy frame? Steve Dwight Frye wrote: > The gap I'm having > trouble figuring out how to close (and it is hard to describe, maybe I > need a picture) is the gap between the fuselage side skin, and the > right-hand (looking forward) _bottom_ edge of the tip-up canopy skin. > This is the edge that runs from the front bottom corner of the tip-up > canopy skin along the side rails of the fuselage. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Stuebner" <david.stuebner(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-6A wings for sale
Date: May 22, 2007
I am selling off/parting out the wings of a wrecked RV6A. I am going to use the rest for my RV-7 project (except the cowling, for sale at a later date). The left wing is in good shape. No significant damage. I don't think the right wing is not useable as a whole due to damage to the spar, but, the fuel tank and the flap are good. The forward piece of sheetmetal of the spar is messed up, and there are various dents and dings to the rest of the sheetmetal, excluding the fuel tank and flap. Also included are the pushrods and wing attach hardware. So, does anyone know anyone who either needs repair parts, or someone who is building a -6 or -6A who doesn't mind using previously flown parts? Dave Location: Upstate NY(Capital District, 12053) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PeterHunt1(at)aol.com
Date: May 22, 2007
Subject: RE: Tip-Up Canopy Query
Dwight, The front edge (in the center area) of the tip-up opens both forward and up. Consequently the gap must be a little wider than on the sides. When I installed my gas struts the clearance changed again as the struts push the canopy forward when closed. So after I got it all together I used filler to built up the aluminum piece immediately in front of the closed canopy and sanded and filed the gap until I got a really nice fit between the canopy front and the fuseladge. Now, once your canopy is on you will have to deaf with a front gasket which seals when the canopy is closed. I have tried them all and finally decided to design my own. What I developed is the perfect front seal for Van's RV aircraft with tip-up canopies. I am manufacturing 250 feet (the minimum raw materials I could order) and can give you a great price on five feet which is all you will need for that front seal. My seal has a "C" channel which slips over that rear facing edge down onto which the tip-up canopy closes. Anyone else interested in a piece? This tip-up canopy front seal, large lockable boxes for storage behind the seats in side-by-side seaters and other neat RV stuff which made my RV-6 a Reserve Grand Champion will soon appear on a web site I will soon have running at PetesRVAviationProducts.com. Or contact me directly. Pete in Clearwater RV-6 SnF 2006 Reserve Grand Champion - Kit SnF 2007 Outstanding Aircraft Homebuilt ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Tip-Up Canopy Query
Date: May 22, 2007
Please post details.price, address, method of payment.and BTW, count me in. Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of PeterHunt1(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 9:27 PM Subject: RV-List: RE: Tip-Up Canopy Query Dwight, The front edge (in the center area) of the tip-up opens both forward and up. Consequently the gap must be a little wider than on the sides. When I installed my gas struts the clearance changed again as the struts push the canopy forward when closed. So after I got it all together I used filler to built up the aluminum piece immediately in front of the closed canopy and sanded and filed the gap until I got a really nice fit between the canopy front and the fuseladge. Now, once your canopy is on you will have to deaf with a front gasket which seals when the canopy is closed. I have tried them all and finally decided to design my own. What I developed is the perfect front seal for Van's RV aircraft with tip-up canopies. I am manufacturing 250 feet (the minimum raw materials I could order) and can give you a great price on five feet which is all you will need for that front seal. My seal has a "C" channel which slips over that rear facing edge down onto which the tip-up canopy closes. Anyone else interested in a piece? This tip-up canopy front seal, large lockable boxes for storage behind the seats in side-by-side seaters and other neat RV stuff which made my RV-6 a Reserve Grand Champion will soon appear on a web site I will soon have running at PetesRVAviationProducts.com. Or contact me directly. Pete in Clearwater RV-6 SnF 2006 Reserve Grand Champion - Kit SnF 2007 Outstanding Aircraft Homebuilt _____ See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2007
From: Carlos A Hernandez <carlosh@sec-engr.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Tip-Up Canopy Query
William Gill wrote: > > Please post detailsprice, address, method of paymentand BTW, count > me in. > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *PeterHunt1(at)aol.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 22, 2007 9:27 PM > *To:* rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV-List: RE: Tip-Up Canopy Query > > Dwight, > > The front edge (in the center area) of the tip-up opens both forward > and up. Consequently the gap must be a little wider than on the sides. > When I installed my gas struts the clearance changed again as the > struts push the canopy forward when closed. So after I got it all > together I used filler to built up the aluminum piece immediately in > front of the closed canopy and sanded and filed the gap until I got a > really nice fit between the canopy front and the fuseladge. > > Now, once your canopy is on you will have to deaf with a front gasket > which seals when the canopy is closed. I have tried them all and > finally decided to design my own. What I developed is the perfect > front seal for Van's RV aircraft with tip-up canopies. I am > manufacturing 250 feet (the minimum raw materials I could order) and > can give you a great price on five feet which is all you will need for > that front seal. My seal has a "C" channel which slips over that rear > facing edge down onto which the tip-up canopy closes. Anyone else > interested in a piece? > > This tip-up canopy front seal, large lockable boxes for storage behind > the seats in side-by-side seaters and other neat RV stuff which made > my RV-6 a Reserve Grand Champion will soon appear on a web site I will > soon have running at PetesRVAviationProducts.com. Or contact me directly. > > Pete in Clearwater > > RV-6 SnF 2006 Reserve Grand Champion - Kit > > SnF 2007 Outstanding Aircraft Homebuilt > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > See what's free at AOL.com > <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503>. > > * * > * * > ** > * - The RV-List Email Forum -* > ** > ** > ** > ** > * --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List* > ** > * - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -* > ** > * --> http://forums.matronics.com* > ** > * * > * > > > * > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > I'm interested... Carlos in AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: May 23, 2007
Subject: Re: RE: Tip-Up Canopy Query
In a message dated 5/22/2007 9:29:46 PM Central Daylight Time, PeterHunt1(at)aol.com writes: When I installed my gas struts the clearance changed again as the struts push the canopy forward when closed. Here's a pretty simple way to control this: _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=4983_ (h ttp://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=4983) >From The PossumWorks in TN, Mark - RV-6A "Mojo" (with bling too!) 8-) _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com>
Subject: skin dents
Date: May 23, 2007
How to deal with skin dents? This may be an odd question coming from someone whose airframe is so far done, so let me give some background. I learned to rivet on my horizontal stabilizer. At the time, I was working for American International Airways and I got one of the IAs to come over and teach me. Predictably, I dented a few spots and was reassured that the dings were slight, not structural, and would be easily covered up. So, as I continued to build, the occasional 'oops' did not overly concern me; I got much better at avoiding them and even when they did occur they were less severe than my first ones. Now fast forward to yesterday. I got a tech advisor to come out and look at my aircraft. He's an 88 y.o. IA who knew of the RV-6A but was a little fuzzy on the details (he didn't know the cowl was fiberglass or that piano hinge was used to attach it, for instance). But I respected his years of experience and followed his comments. Then he focused on the dents and said they would HAVE to be fixed; they looked like hell. When I asked how, he said I would have to cut out a circle from the skin, large enough to clear the affected rivet and its neighbors, and rivet in a patch. I was floored. By the way, he admitted, when I mentioned my teacher's comments, that the damage was cosmetic, not structural, but still insisted that it needed to be fixed. Well, I'm horrified by the thought of putting 2"-3" holes in my skin and I have no idea how I would do it without damaging the structure underneath anyway. I haven't looked in the AC yet to see what they recommend, but can this be right? My concerns are: doing more damage than good while trying to repair and also won't the patches affect the integrity of the monocoque structure? I'm not dodging the fact that there are dings; there are about a couple dozen throughout the whole structure. But before I proceed, I want to know if I should get another tech advisor (he's the only one near Flagstaff; I expect I'd have to get someone from Phoenix) or if he is right. Comments and opinions much appreciated. Pat Kelley - RV-6A - Odd tasks while waiting for avionics. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2007
From: Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com>
Subject: Re: Catto Prop
I was thinking about $1800 shipped... That would include everything flywheel forward... It sues 7/16" bolts too... I need to go take some pix of it... It has a couple dings.....but it only has very low hours on it... -Bill jbker(at)juno.com wrote: > Bill, how much convincing ($$$) does it take? :>) > > Bernie > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: skin dents
Date: May 23, 2007
Let me be the first to cry horseshit. Get another opinion. My dents now have 1970 hours. Denis Walsh On May 23, 2007, at 07:58 287230005, Patrick Kelley wrote: > How to deal with skin dents? This may be an odd question coming > from someone whose airframe is so far done, so let me give some > background. I learned to rivet on my horizontal stabilizer. At > the time, I was working for American International Airways and I > got one of the IAs to come over and teach me. Predictably, I > dented a few spots and was reassured that the dings were slight, > not structural, and would be easily covered up. So, as I continued > to build, the occasional =91oops=92 did not overly concern me; I got > much better at avoiding them and even when they did occur they were > less severe than my first ones. > > > Now fast forward to yesterday. I got a tech advisor to come out > and look at my aircraft. He=92s an 88 y.o. IA who knew of the RV-6A > but was a little fuzzy on the details (he didn=92t know the cowl was > fiberglass or that piano hinge was used to attach it, for > instance). But I respected his years of experience and followed > his comments. Then he focused on the dents and said they would > HAVE to be fixed; they looked like hell. When I asked how, he said > I would have to cut out a circle from the skin, large enough to > clear the affected rivet and its neighbors, and rivet in a patch. > I was floored. By the way, he admitted, when I mentioned my > teacher=92s comments, that the damage was cosmetic, not structural, > but still insisted that it needed to be fixed. Well, I=92m horrified > by the thought of putting 2=94-3=94 holes in my skin and I have no idea > how I would do it without damaging the structure underneath > anyway. I haven=92t looked in the AC yet to see what they recommend, > but can this be right? My concerns are: doing more damage than > good while trying to repair and also won=92t the patches affect the > integrity of the monocoque structure? I=92m not dodging the fact > that there are dings; there are about a couple dozen throughout the > whole structure. But before I proceed, I want to know if I should > get another tech advisor (he=92s the only one near Flagstaff; I > expect I=92d have to get someone from Phoenix) or if he is right. > Comments and opinions much appreciated. > > > Pat Kelley ' RV-6A ' Odd tasks while waiting for avionics. > > ======================== > ======================== > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: skin dents
Date: May 23, 2007
Patrick, This is crazy! If they are indeed cosmetic, then you do NOT need to cut holes in your skins. I would just plan on filling them before paint if you like. You need a different tech counselor simply because he suggested this when he also admits they are cosmetic. If you have some that are more than just cosmetic the better choice is to replace the skin or add additional rivets to change the status to no longer less than cosmetic. If you find another accomplished builder in your area it would be sufficient I would think to replace the technical counselor. My opinions of course. Tim RV-6 flying with a few rivet dings _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Kelley Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 8:59 AM Subject: RV-List: skin dents How to deal with skin dents? This may be an odd question coming from someone whose airframe is so far done, so let me give some background. I learned to rivet on my horizontal stabilizer. At the time, I was working for American International Airways and I got one of the IAs to come over and teach me. Predictably, I dented a few spots and was reassured that the dings were slight, not structural, and would be easily covered up. So, as I continued to build, the occasional 'oops' did not overly concern me; I got much better at avoiding them and even when they did occur they were less severe than my first ones. Now fast forward to yesterday. I got a tech advisor to come out and look at my aircraft. He's an 88 y.o. IA who knew of the RV-6A but was a little fuzzy on the details (he didn't know the cowl was fiberglass or that piano hinge was used to attach it, for instance). But I respected his years of experience and followed his comments. Then he focused on the dents and said they would HAVE to be fixed; they looked like hell. When I asked how, he said I would have to cut out a circle from the skin, large enough to clear the affected rivet and its neighbors, and rivet in a patch. I was floored. By the way, he admitted, when I mentioned my teacher's comments, that the damage was cosmetic, not structural, but still insisted that it needed to be fixed. Well, I'm horrified by the thought of putting 2"-3" holes in my skin and I have no idea how I would do it without damaging the structure underneath anyway. I haven't looked in the AC yet to see what they recommend, but can this be right? My concerns are: doing more damage than good while trying to repair and also won't the patches affect the integrity of the monocoque structure? I'm not dodging the fact that there are dings; there are about a couple dozen throughout the whole structure. But before I proceed, I want to know if I should get another tech advisor (he's the only one near Flagstaff; I expect I'd have to get someone from Phoenix) or if he is right. Comments and opinions much appreciated. Pat Kelley - RV-6A - Odd tasks while waiting for avionics. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Joseph Larson <jpl(at)showpage.org>
Subject: Re: skin dents
Date: May 23, 2007
There's no way I'd mess with the structural integrity of the airframe to fix cosmetic problems. Bondo for the win? -Joe On May 23, 2007, at 8:58 AM, Patrick Kelley wrote: > How to deal with skin dents? This may be an odd question coming > from someone whose airframe is so far done, so let me give some > background. I learned to rivet on my horizontal stabilizer. At > the time, I was working for American International Airways and I > got one of the IAs to come over and teach me. Predictably, I > dented a few spots and was reassured that the dings were slight, > not structural, and would be easily covered up. So, as I continued > to build, the occasional =91oops=92 did not overly concern me; I got > much better at avoiding them and even when they did occur they were > less severe than my first ones. > > > Now fast forward to yesterday. I got a tech advisor to come out > and look at my aircraft. He=92s an 88 y.o. IA who knew of the RV-6A > but was a little fuzzy on the details (he didn=92t know the cowl was > fiberglass or that piano hinge was used to attach it, for > instance). But I respected his years of experience and followed > his comments. Then he focused on the dents and said they would > HAVE to be fixed; they looked like hell. When I asked how, he said > I would have to cut out a circle from the skin, large enough to > clear the affected rivet and its neighbors, and rivet in a patch. > I was floored. By the way, he admitted, when I mentioned my > teacher=92s comments, that the damage was cosmetic, not structural, > but still insisted that it needed to be fixed. Well, I=92m horrified > by the thought of putting 2=94-3=94 holes in my skin and I have no idea > how I would do it without damaging the structure underneath > anyway. I haven=92t looked in the AC yet to see what they recommend, > but can this be right? My concerns are: doing more damage than > good while trying to repair and also won=92t the patches affect the > integrity of the monocoque structure? I=92m not dodging the fact > that there are dings; there are about a couple dozen throughout the > whole structure. But before I proceed, I want to know if I should > get another tech advisor (he=92s the only one near Flagstaff; I > expect I=92d have to get someone from Phoenix) or if he is right. > Comments and opinions much appreciated. > > > Pat Kelley ' RV-6A ' Odd tasks while waiting for avionics. > > ======================== > ======================== > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2007
From: mark phipps <skydive80020(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: skin dents
Pat, most of us have a few dings in our rivet work and most are cosmetic. I can't give firm advice without seeing the dings in person, but, if they don't have sharp bends that likely could start worrying they probably are cosmetic. I can't imagine why the advice was they are cosmetic but must be repaired. I think his advice is based upon certified aircraft. Have a tech counselor or two look at your work and offer thier opinion. I would be surprised if they require the major rework you mentioned. Mark Phipps, N242RP, flying RV6A, "Gypsy Spirit" Patrick Kelley wrote: st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } How to deal with skin dents? This may be an odd question coming from someone whose airframe is so far done, so let me give some background. I learned to rivet on my horizontal stabilizer. At the time, I was working for American International Airways and I got one of the IAs to come over and teach me. Predictably, I dented a few spots and was reassured that the dings were slight, not structural, and would be easily covered up. So, as I continued to build, the occasional oops did not overly concern me; I got much better at avoiding them and even when they did occur they were less severe than my first ones. Now fast forward to yesterday. I got a tech advisor to come out and look at my aircraft. Hes an 88 y.o. IA who knew of the RV-6A but was a little fuzzy on the details (he didnt know the cowl was fiberglass or that piano hinge was used to attach it, for instance). But I respected his years of experience and followed his comments. Then he focused on the dents and said they would HAVE to be fixed; they looked like hell. When I asked how, he said I would have to cut out a circle from the skin, large enough to clear the affected rivet and its neighbors, and rivet in a patch. I was floored. By the way, he admitted, when I mentioned my teachers comments, that the damage was cosmetic, not structural, but still insisted that it needed to be fixed. Well, Im horrified by the thought of putting 2-3 holes in my skin and I have no idea how I would do it without damaging the structure underneath anyway. I havent looked in the AC yet to see what they recommend, but can this be right? My concerns are: doing more damage than good while trying to repair and also wont the patches affect the integrity of the monocoque structure? Im not dodging the fact that there are dings; there are about a couple dozen throughout the whole structure. But before I proceed, I want to know if I should get another tech advisor (hes the only one near Flagstaff; I expect Id have to get someone from Phoenix) or if he is right. Comments and opinions much appreciated. Pat Kelley RV-6A Odd tasks while waiting for avionics. Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48517/*http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 hot CTA = Join our Network Research Panel ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com>
Subject: skin dents
Date: May 23, 2007
Thanks to all who've replied. I feel much better. I will go for a second opinion just to be sure (not to say you guys aren't great but a pair of eyes on the problem would have to be better than my verbal description.) Any RV owners/Tech Advisors wanting an excuse to fly to Flagstaff out there? Test your landing/takeoff performance at 7000'? I'd like to be sure that the next guy who looks at my plane knows what I'm doing. Pat Kelley - RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2007
From: John Fasching <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
Subject: Re: skin dents
Get some two part filler - its either Miracle Fill or Super Fill, I forget which...it will absolutely stick and you can fill the dents, sand them and then paint over.....I did this 12-years ago on my RV6A and none of the fill ever came loose....whatever you do DO NOT use Bondo...it WILL crack. Don't cut those holes...that's really crazy John Patrick Kelley wrote: > > Thanks to all who've replied. I feel much better. I will go for a > second opinion just to be sure (not to say you guys aren't great but a > pair of eyes on the problem would have to be better than my verbal > description.) Any RV owners/Tech Advisors wanting an excuse to fly > to Flagstaff out there? Test your landing/takeoff performance at > 7000'? I'd like to be sure that the next guy who looks at my plane > knows what I'm doing. > > > > Pat Kelley -- RV-6A > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2007
From: carlos <carlosh@sec-engr.com>
Subject: Re: skin dents
Patrick Kelley wrote: > > Thanks to all whove replied. I feel much better. I will go for a > second opinion just to be sure (not to say you guys arent great but a > pair of eyes on the problem would have to be better than my verbal > description.) Any RV owners/Tech Advisors wanting an excuse to fly to > Flagstaff out there? Test your landing/takeoff performance at 7000? > Id like to be sure that the next guy who looks at my plane knows what > Im doing. > > Pat Kelley RV-6A > > * > > > * > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Pat, Try Ron Smith. He lives in Goodyear, AZ (623) 935-5676. He has a bunch of experience with RV construction ( 4, 6, 7, 8's) and built and flies a 6A also. He's my tech while I'm building my 7A. He's 71 but don't let that bother you. He's a sharp minded individual. Carlos in AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: skin dents
Date: May 23, 2007
Don't do it. If the ding is only cosmetic - cover it and live with it. I attempted to fix a ding in my aileron skin - ended up work hardening and cracking it. Then put a patch in following the standard A&P practice you described. With all the rivets, it ended up looking like someone had patched where a 75mm round went through a Sherman tank. Bound to have affected the weight and balance as well. I ended up trashing that one and building a new aileron. So don't do it. Not necessary and sure not pretty. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Kelley To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 9:58 AM Subject: RV-List: skin dents How to deal with skin dents? This may be an odd question coming from someone whose airframe is so far done, so let me give some background. I learned to rivet on my horizontal stabilizer. At the time, I was working for American International Airways and I got one of the IAs to come over and teach me. Predictably, I dented a few spots and was reassured that the dings were slight, not structural, and would be easily covered up. So, as I continued to build, the occasional 'oops' did not overly concern me; I got much better at avoiding them and even when they did occur they were less severe than my first ones. Now fast forward to yesterday. I got a tech advisor to come out and look at my aircraft. He's an 88 y.o. IA who knew of the RV-6A but was a little fuzzy on the details (he didn't know the cowl was fiberglass or that piano hinge was used to attach it, for instance). But I respected his years of experience and followed his comments. Then he focused on the dents and said they would HAVE to be fixed; they looked like hell. When I asked how, he said I would have to cut out a circle from the skin, large enough to clear the affected rivet and its neighbors, and rivet in a patch. I was floored. By the way, he admitted, when I mentioned my teacher's comments, that the damage was cosmetic, not structural, but still insisted that it needed to be fixed. Well, I'm horrified by the thought of putting 2"-3" holes in my skin and I have no idea how I would do it without damaging the structure underneath anyway. I haven't looked in the AC yet to see what they recommend, but can this be right? My concerns are: doing more damage than good while trying to repair and also won't the patches affect the integrity of the monocoque structure? I'm not dodging the fact that there are dings; there are about a couple dozen throughout the whole structure. But before I proceed, I want to know if I should get another tech advisor (he's the only one near Flagstaff; I expect I'd have to get someone from Phoenix) or if he is right. Comments and opinions much appreciated. Pat Kelley - RV-6A - Odd tasks while waiting for avionics. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: skin dents
Date: May 23, 2007
Pat, as others have said... do not cut the skins to repair cosmetic flaws. I too had a few and intended to fill them with an epoxy putty made with a sandable filler. When I decided to have the plane painted by a professional aircraft paint shop, I talked to the owner about doing this and he said to let them do it. They use a material called Piranha Putty. In one case, where I dropped a bucking bar into the inside of the leading edge of the wing, they took a blunt punch and made an "inside" dent out of the "outside" dent and the filled the dent and sanded it smooth. This was all done with the approval of their in-house A&P mechanic. I am going to the paint shop tomorrow and will try to remember to ask them about the source of the Piranha Putty and pass it along to you. Dale Ensing RV-6A EAA Tech Councilor and Flight Advisor ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Kelley To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 9:58 AM Subject: RV-List: skin dents ................. Then he focused on the dents and said they would HAVE to be fixed; they looked like hell. When I asked how, he said I would have to cut out a circle from the skin, large enough to clear the affected rivet and its neighbors, and rivet in a patch. I was floored. By the way, he admitted, when I mentioned my teacher's comments, that the damage was cosmetic, not structural, but still insisted that it needed to be fixed. Pat Kelley - RV-6A - Odd tasks while waiting for avionics. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PeterHunt1(at)AOL.COM
Date: May 23, 2007
Subject: RE: Tip Up Canopy Query
Regarding the new front seal now available for the tip-up canopy, Bill writes: "Please post details, price, address, method of payment. Count me in." This week the manufacturing equipment is being set up to make this specialty run. It should be ready for shipping buy May 30th. I can sell it for $5.00 a foot. Just drop me a check. I'll pay all shipping and any sales tax for anyone that wants a piece. No adhesive is needed. The "C" channel which slides over the rear facing edge (onto which the front of the tip-up canopy closes) has tiny fingers inside the "C" facing rearward. These fingers allow the seal/gasket to slide on, but resist sliding off. Therefore, it installs in just a minute. Cut it to length, push it on and you are done. I have been flying my RV-6 with the prototype seal/gasket for almost a year and it works great. Pete Hunt 849 Harbor Island Clearwater, FL 33767 727-447-6409 ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2007
From: Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: skin dents
Pat, Your TC meant well. If the "dents" are indeed cosmetic they can be dealt with later. Without a close up inspection or at least pictures and actual locations, it is impossible for anyone here to offer anything more than generic advice. We all have a different interpretation of what is "cosmetic." I know some builders will accept a poor level of craftsmanship from themselves that other builders would never think to tolerate. Similarly, a given individual's idea of damage can be a relative thing compared to the perception of the next guy. Your post seemed to convey that the TC seemed especially alarmed and I suspect some of the dents may have exceeded what most casual observers would normally consider to be cosmetic. As an active TC, I can assure you our services are advisory in nature and no authority exists to make you do anything. That is not what we do. Eventually however, your RV will be subject to a more formal inspection by the FAA or its designee to acquire its airworthiness certificate. Perhaps your TC knows something about the practices of your local FSDO or DAR that we don't. In any event, get a second or even third opinion. Good luck. Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla!" RV-8 Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com>
Subject: RE: skin dents
Date: May 23, 2007
That's somewhat my feeling, too. Others have looked at the plane and not commented about the quality of riveting, so I was somewhat surprised - but even more by the suggested repair method. However, if he is right I need to know; I am very aware that I am a novice builder. And, conversely, if he is wrong I need to know that as well. Your advice of getting a second on-site inspection is already being planned, as soon as I can locate another TC. PatK _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Galati Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 1:11 PM Subject: RV-List: RE: skin dents Pat, Your TC meant well. If the "dents" are indeed cosmetic they can be dealt with later. Without a close up inspection or at least pictures and actual locations, it is impossible for anyone here to offer anything more than generic advice. We all have a different interpretation of what is "cosmetic." I know some builders will accept a poor level of craftsmanship from themselves that other builders would never think to tolerate. Similarly, a given individual's idea of damage can be a relative thing compared to the perception of the next guy. Your post seemed to convey that the TC seemed especially alarmed and I suspect some of the dents may have exceeded what most casual observers would normally consider to be cosmetic. As an active TC, I can assure you our services are advisory in nature and no authority exists to make you do anything. That is not what we do. Eventually however, your RV will be subject to a more formal inspection by the FAA or its designee to acquire its airworthiness certificate. Perhaps your TC knows something about the practices of your local FSDO or DAR that we don't. In any event, get a second or even third opinion. Good luck. Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla!" RV-8 Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: RE: skin dents
Date: May 23, 2007
Pat, I remember when I was getting started on my RV-8A project one of the most difficult aspects was to try to understand the quality level required. It became obvious that "Perfect" was going to be a rare occurrence, but the difference between acceptable and not acceptable was and sometimes still is difficult for my novice eye to distinguish. In making that distinction I would suggest that you keep in mind that structural or mechanical or electrical integrity is far more important than esthetics. I remember reading that Japanese art sometimes includes an obvious imperfection in order to avoid the pretense of perfection and therefore insult the gods. My airplane will require no such intentional imperfections, but I do intend for it to have complete integrity as a flying machine. Terry _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Kelley Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 2:00 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: skin dents That's somewhat my feeling, too. Others have looked at the plane and not commented about the quality of riveting, so I was somewhat surprised - but even more by the suggested repair method. However, if he is right I need to know; I am very aware that I am a novice builder. And, conversely, if he is wrong I need to know that as well. Your advice of getting a second on-site inspection is already being planned, as soon as I can locate another TC. PatK ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2007
From: "Rick Leach" <papadaddyo(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Panel
Thought I would just pipe in for some opinions since we are on the panel subject. I have been really looking hard at the OP system. I spoke with them at Sun-n-fun and I am pretty impressed with the system. (Of course the vendor is going to make it look real good.) Has anyone else looked at the op system compared to the Chelton? If so, what do you think. I like the integrated idea and it actually seems to offer more than the G900, i.e. synthetic flight. Comments! Rick Leach 40397 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Panel
Rick, Re Op Tech. I'm obviously biased as I chose Op Tech for my RV-10. http://deemsrv10.com/album/Panel/slides/DSC03330.html (page fwd and back LOTS of Screen pics in this album.) For those who will take the time to look and compare, it's clear to me that they have : 1. Larger Screens 2. Brighter Screens (1500 nit) 3. More information displayable on a screen 4. Better Resolution 5.Price includes an engine management system 6. Integrated IFR Charts 7. WSI or XM weather 8. Option for remote installation of avionics 9. More functionality than Chelton and LESS $'s Op Tech is an option on the New EPIC (Chelton is not) along w/ Garmin 1000 Op Tech is the standard in the Javelin. Talking to their owner/president Dexter Turner, they are expanding and continuing to hire people and have recently moved into a larger facility, all signs of a growing company (compare to D2A) Lot's of the Lancair crowd have discovered them and I'm seeing more and more of them installed. I haven't flown it yet (other than 40 hours in DEMO mode) so take this 2 cents for what it's worth. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Rick Leach wrote: > Thought I would just pipe in for some opinions since we are on the panel > subject. I have been really looking hard at the OP system. I spoke with > them at Sun-n-fun and I am pretty impressed with the system. (Of course the > vendor is going to make it look real good.) Has anyone else looked at the > op system compared to the Chelton? If so, what do you think. I like the > integrated idea and it actually seems to offer more than the G900, i.e. > synthetic flight. Comments! > > > > Rick Leach > > 40397 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Panel
Date: May 23, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
One additional feature #10 would be the ability to display video format using an IR sensitive, motion stabilized tail mounted camera. Oregon Aero has put one on a Pilatus PC-12 for entry at night onto wildlife enriched airport environments. The Garmin 900X has made some inroads into the Epic production line. It is a very competitive market which is good for all of us shopping. John C -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 3:57 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Panel Rick, Re Op Tech. I'm obviously biased as I chose Op Tech for my RV-10. http://deemsrv10.com/album/Panel/slides/DSC03330.html (page fwd and back LOTS of Screen pics in this album.) For those who will take the time to look and compare, it's clear to me that they have : 1. Larger Screens 2. Brighter Screens (1500 nit) 3. More information displayable on a screen 4. Better Resolution 5.Price includes an engine management system 6. Integrated IFR Charts 7. WSI or XM weather 8. Option for remote installation of avionics 9. More functionality than Chelton and LESS $'s Op Tech is an option on the New EPIC (Chelton is not) along w/ Garmin 1000 Op Tech is the standard in the Javelin. Talking to their owner/president Dexter Turner, they are expanding and continuing to hire people and have recently moved into a larger facility, all signs of a growing company (compare to D2A) Lot's of the Lancair crowd have discovered them and I'm seeing more and more of them installed. I haven't flown it yet (other than 40 hours in DEMO mode) so take this 2 cents for what it's worth. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Rick Leach wrote: > Thought I would just pipe in for some opinions since we are on the panel > subject. I have been really looking hard at the OP system. I spoke with > them at Sun-n-fun and I am pretty impressed with the system. (Of course the > vendor is going to make it look real good.) Has anyone else looked at the > op system compared to the Chelton? If so, what do you think. I like the > integrated idea and it actually seems to offer more than the G900, i.e. > synthetic flight. Comments! > > > > Rick Leach > > 40397 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2007
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: Sniffle Valve
Most production IO-360s in certificated aircraft like my Mooney have sniffle valves. James H Nelson wrote: > > Mark > I believe that the sniffle valve is for carburated engines. Its > purpose is to remove any fuel that might pool in the bottom of the air > cleaner from to vigorous application of the throttle during starting. > That is the fire hazard. With fuel injection, fuel is only put into the > engine at the intake valve. It will be difficult but possible to get > fuel to run back down and into the air cleaner area. Pumping the > throttle during start will not add any additional fuel to the slow moving > air stream. IMHO, anything is possible but with FI, you will have > flooded the engine seriously. to get in that condition. I could be wrong > in these scenarios but I am not installing one in my IO 360. > > > Jim > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "davercook" <davercook(at)prodigy.net>
Subject: RV-7 Elevator mismatch
Date: May 23, 2007
Listers A friend is building a 9a. When I visited him today, he showed me a problem with his elevators. With the elevators in trail with the stabilizer, the counter balance arms did not align. One arm was up 3/8" the other was down 3/8" while the control horns were matched. Question Any one else have this problem? Hard to see any twist, but it is the only thing I can think of. David R. Cook RV-6 N815DC Flying 11Hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2007
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Elevator mismatch
davercook wrote: > Listers > > A friend is building a 9a. When I visited him today, he showed me a > problem with his elevators. With the elevators in trail with the > stabilizer, the counter balance arms did not align. One arm was up 3/8" > the other was down 3/8" while the control horns were matched. Question > Any one else have this problem? Hard to see any twist, but it is the > only thing I can think of. > David R. Cook > RV-6 N815DC Flying 11Hours > > * It's been a long time since I built the elevators on my -7 project, but IIRC, the control horns have enough meat to allow aligning the elevators properly & then drilling as needed, with the holes possibly not centered. Remember, the -9 has a totally different hor. tail. Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Vs" <dsvs(at)ca.rr.com>
Subject: RV-7 Elevator mismatch
Date: May 23, 2007
When your friend gets to drilling the horns he will read that they almost never match. The elevators may not actually be in trail when the copunterbalance arms ate not matched to the HS. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of davercook Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 6:44 PM To: RV-List Subject: RV-List: RV-7 Elevator mismatch Listers A friend is building a 9a. When I visited him today, he showed me a problem with his elevators. With the elevators in trail with the stabilizer, the counter balance arms did not align. One arm was up 3/8" the other was down 3/8" while the control horns were matched. Question Any one else have this problem? Hard to see any twist, but it is the only thing I can think of. David R. Cook RV-6 N815DC Flying 11Hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2007
From: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Elevator mismatch
The problem is that he is aligning the control arms. The instructions specifically state that it is not necessary nor appropriate to line up the control arms. One aligns the two sides of the elevator and then drills the control arms at the same time with some sort of jig to make sure you are drilling perpendicular to the arms. The control arms typically do not line up perfectly. Unless they are so far out that one cannot drill straight through both without getting too close to the edge of one or the other there is no problem. Dick Tasker davercook wrote: > Listers > > A friend is building a 9a. When I visited him today, he showed me a > problem with his elevators. With the elevators in trail with the > stabilizer, the counter balance arms did not align. One arm was up > 3/8" the other was down 3/8" while the control horns were matched. > Question Any one else have this problem? Hard to see any twist, but it > is the only thing I can think of. > David R. Cook > RV-6 N815DC Flying 11Hours > >* > > >* > -- Please Note: No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however, that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced. -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Neal George" <neal.george(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: FS: MT Prop Gov
Date: May 23, 2007
Listers - I have a new MT prop governor for sale. $1075, shipped. Neal E. George 2023 Everglades Drive Navarre, FL 32566 Home - 850-515-0640 Cell - 850-218-4838 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: May 23, 2007
Subject: Re: RV-7 Elevator mismatch
In a message dated 5/23/2007 6:47:02 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, davercook(at)prodigy.net writes: A friend is building a 9a. When I visited him today, he showed me a problem with his elevators. With the elevators in trail with the stabilizer, the counter balance arms did not align. One arm was up 3/8" the other was down 3/8" while the control horns were matched. Question Any one else have this problem? Hard to see any twist, but it is the only thing I can think of. ==================================== I can't believe that Van's hasn't solved this problem in the 12 or 15 years since it has been going on. I ended up cutting, undersleeving and rewelding one side to reclock it, so I wasn't ashamed to put that poor fitting original piece of cr** on the plane. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 845hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Date: May 23, 2007
Subject: Re: FS: MT Prop Gov
It would be nice if you listed the MT governor part number. That way the correct engine usage could be determined. Perhaps from my MT Propeller Governor page on my website, _www.lessdrag.com_ (http://www.lessdrag.com/) Regards, Jim Ayers Less Drag Products, Inc. 805-795-5377 In a message dated 05/23/2007 7:42:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, neal.george(at)mchsi.com writes: Listers - I have a new MT prop governor for sale. $1075, shipped. Neal E. George 2023 Everglades Drive Navarre, FL 32566 Home - 850-515-0640 Cell - 850-218-4838 ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael D. Cencula" <matronics(at)cencula.com>
Subject: Re: skin dents
Date: May 23, 2007
FWIW, careful pushing with a popsicle stick or other small piece of wood can greatly reduce the appearance of dents in skins. I've repaired a couple small dents using this method in my empennage skins. Mike On Wednesday May 23 2007 09:58 am, Patrick Kelley wrote: > How to deal with skin dents? This may be an odd question coming from > Phoenix) or if he is right. Comments and opinions much appreciated. > > > Pat Kelley - RV-6A - Odd tasks while waiting for avionics. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karl Ahamer" <kahamer(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RV-7 Elevator mismatch
Date: May 24, 2007
I had a similar problem in my 6A just not as much mismatch.Had the holes in the control horns welded up (actually just in one of them) aligned the elevators and redrilled. It is very important to use a predrilled block of hard material to guide the drillbit so it is exactly perpendicular to the control horns. Was a simple fix. Regards Karl Ahamer 7A near Sydney(cowling=85.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of davercook Sent: Thursday, 24 May 2007 11:44 AM Subject: RV-List: RV-7 Elevator mismatch Listers A friend is building a 9a. When I visited him today, he showed me a problem with his elevators. With the elevators in trail with the stabilizer, the counter balance arms did not align. One arm was up 3/8" the other was down 3/8" while the control horns were matched. Question Any one else have this problem? Hard to see any twist, but it is the only thing I can think of. David R. Cook RV-6 N815DC Flying 11Hours "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?RV-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com 23/05/2007 3:59 PM 23/05/2007 3:59 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 2007
From: "Rodney Boyd" <rboyd(at)dcccd.edu>
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 32 Msgs - 05/23/07
I will be returning from vacation on June 4, 2007. If you need something prior to then, please contact Bill Barry at 7070 or by email. Rodney ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Neal George" <neal.george(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: FS: MT Prop Gov
Date: May 24, 2007
Now there's a good idea - thanks Jim!/ New MT Propeller Governor P-860-4 for (I)O-360/(I)O-320 aft-mounted applications. $1075 Shipped. Neal E. George 2023 Everglades Drive Navarre, FL 32566 Home - 850-515-0640 Cell - 850-218-4838 It would be nice if you listed the MT governor part number. That way the correct engine usage could be determined. Perhaps from my MT Propeller Governor page on my website, www.lessdrag.com <http://www.lessdrag.com/> Regards, Jim Ayers Less Drag Products, Inc. 805-795-5377 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 2007
Subject: RV-7 Elevator mismatch
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Dave, I had the same problem. The solution is to move one of the rod ends in or out that suport the horiz stab. It drove me bonkers untill I was removing the stab's and I accidently moved it only a bit rearward and suddenly all things lined up. I then rotated the rod end one half rev and re-assembled it and it was almost where it needed to be. I then rotated it one more half turn and the counterweights line up and it was great. The one rod end I rotated was the one closest to the fuselage not the outside rod end. Problem solved! Jim Nelson RV9-A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 2007
From: George Inman 204 287 8334 <ghinman(at)mts.net>
Subject: Re: skin dents
Have you thought about using a dent puller such as one of the following http://www.autobarn.net/xxxw-hs-7500.html http://www.tooltopia.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=8598&ysmchn BIZ&ysmcpn=Shopzilla&ysmgrp=Shopzilla&ysmtrm=HS%207500&ysmtac=CMP&utm_source =Shopzilla&utm_campaign=Shopzilla&utm_term=HS%207500&utm_medium=CMP http://www.asseenontv.com/prod-pages/pops-a-dent.html If the dents are shallow without sharp bends it might work. On May 23, 2007, at 07:58 287230005, Patrick Kelley wrote: How to deal with skin dents? This may be an odd question coming from someone whose airframe is so far done, so let me give some background. I learned to rivet on my horizontal stabilizer. At the time, I was working for American International Airways and I got one of the IAs to come over and teach me. Predictably, I dented a few spots and was reassured that the dings were slight, not structural, and would be easily covered up. So, as I continued to build, the occasional 'oops' did not overly concern me; I got much better at avoiding them and even when they did occur they were less severe than my first ones. Now fast forward to yesterday. I got a tech advisor to come out and look at my aircraft. He's an 88 y.o. IA who knew of the RV-6A but was a little fuzzy on the details (he didn't know the cowl was fiberglass or that piano hinge was used to attach it, for instance). But I respected his years of experience and followed his comments. Then he focused on the dents and said they would HAVE to be fixed; they looked like hell. George H. Inman ghinman(at)mts.net RV-8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcowper(at)webtv.net (Pete Cowper)
Date: May 24, 2007
Subject: Re: skin dents
If you have a severe dent which you can reach to attempt to "hammer & dolly" the dent, do not use both a metal hammer and metal dolly or the aluminum will stretch. Use a softer plastic such as Delrin for the hammer or wood or plastic for the dolly under the dent. Use multiple light taps on aluminum as it "moves" very easily. Rubbing a piece of wood under aluminum dents will greatly reduce most to the extent that often an extra coat of primer will be sufficient to block sand it smooth with no additional filler. Pete Cowper RV-8 #81139 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV-7 Crash
Date: May 24, 2007
From: "Condon, Philip M." <pcondon(at)mitre.org>
http://www.wlwt.com/news/13357582/detail.html MARYSVILLE, Ohio -- An amateur-built plane crashed Monday in a cornfield in central Ohio as the pilot tried to land at a small airport, killing the two Florida men in the aircraft, authorities said. The plane made a slow spiral as it fell and hit the ground at a sharp angle, sending up smoke, said Dale Scheiderer, a farmer who was on his tractor planting soybeans when he watched the plane crash into his cornfield. Shortly before that, the pilot had radioed Union County Airport near the farm, notifying officials the plane was about three miles away and was about to land, airport manager Adam Gibson said. Wind was light and visibility was clear as the two-seat plane traveled the length of the runway at about 10 feet off the ground, then turned slightly left, he said. "I saw it come in low, and then when it didn't land, I didn't necessarily think anything of it," Gibson said. "We assumed he was going around for another try." But the RV-7A plane crashed nose first instead in the field south of Marysville. The pilot was Evan Wood, 68, and the passenger was Walter Buchholz, 73, both of Punta Gorda, Fla., State Highway Patrol Lt. Rick Zwayer said. The men died on impact, county Coroner David Applegate said. Autopsies will be performed. The plane took off from Bay City, Mich., early Monday morning, and probably was stopping in Marysville to refuel, Zwayer said. An RV-7A is built from a kit, which costs about $18,000 without an engine, propeller or interior furnishing and can take about 1,500 hours to put together, said Dick Knapinski, spokesman for the Osh Kosh, Wis.-based Experimental Aircraft Association. The planes must be certified as air worthy by federal aviation regulators, he said. Federal investigators have been informed of the crash. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 2007
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: skin dents
There are pros at doing this with metal "spoons" found in the phone book under dentless auto body repair. Works as long as there is no crease and individual is experienced with aluminum, rather than steel auto bodies. Michael D. Cencula wrote: > > FWIW, careful pushing with a popsicle stick or other small piece of wood can > greatly reduce the appearance of dents in skins. I've repaired a couple > small dents using this method in my empennage skins. > > Mike > > On Wednesday May 23 2007 09:58 am, Patrick Kelley wrote: > >> How to deal with skin dents? This may be an odd question coming from >> > > >> Phoenix) or if he is right. Comments and opinions much appreciated. >> >> >> >> Pat Kelley - RV-6A - Odd tasks while waiting for avionics. >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 2007
From: John Fasching <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
Subject: Eggenfelner FWF Probelm - Help!
A friend is about done with an Eggenflener FWF pacakge in his RV7A and has asked me to look into a problem with the electronic/electrical system. Here's what is being observed, and if anyone has seen anything like this, I'd sure like to hear from you before I spend a LOT of time studying his manuals to see if I can deduce what the problem is. With the master switch on, fuel pressures appear normal as shown on his EIS and on a mechanical pressure indicator he has added. BUT when he switches on the ignition switch, (engine not running) the EIS shows increasing fuel pressures up to over 200PSI, which is wrong since the mechanical meter still shows the 31PSI or so that the EIS was showing before the ignition switch was placed to "on." The engine starts and runs normally. Also indications are abnormal with the fuel pump selector placed in the 'auto' position when the EIS voltmeter indication shows an increase to 19.5-volts while an analog voltmeter shows a rather normal 14.3-volts. Really weird. I am going to spend the afternoon studying the rather involved and complex (and sometimes missing) data in his three LARGE three-ring binders to see if I can explain his symptoms. Any assistance would be appreciated. John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vince-Himsl" <vhimsl(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Catto 3-blade propeller torque
Date: May 25, 2007
I can't find the proper torque value for my Catto 3-blade propeller. |3-Bladed Wood/Glass Composite |Propeller for RV-8 |66" Diameter x 76" Pitch |0-360 180HP@2700RPM |Top Speed at Target RPM-212mph@2800rpm |4.375" Finished Propeller Thickness |7" Diameter Prop Flange |SAE-2 Pattern, 1/2" Bolts and |3/4" Lugs Does anyone have it? I will email Catto if no one has it. But as he is building props rather than sitting in front of a computer I am hoping for a quicker response from the list. Regards, Vince H. Moscow, ID RV8 - VSB (finish) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Eggenfelner FWF Probelm - Help!
Date: May 25, 2007
John, sounds like the fuel pressure sensor wiring might not be correct. It appears to me that when you turn on the ignition somehow more current is flowing in the circuit than the system expects and this is read as more pressure from the sensor. Check the wiring between the fuel pressure sensor and the EIS. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Fasching" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 1:45 PM Subject: RV-List: Eggenfelner FWF Probelm - Help! > > A friend is about done with an Eggenflener FWF pacakge in his RV7A and has > asked me to look into a problem with the electronic/electrical system. > > Here's what is being observed, and if anyone has seen anything like this, > I'd sure like to hear from you before I spend a LOT of time studying his > manuals to see if I can deduce what the problem is. > > With the master switch on, fuel pressures appear normal as shown on his > EIS and on a mechanical pressure indicator he has added. BUT when he > switches on the ignition switch, (engine not running) the EIS shows > increasing fuel pressures up to over 200PSI, which is wrong since the > mechanical meter still shows the 31PSI or so that the EIS was showing > before the ignition switch was placed to "on." The engine starts and runs > normally. Also indications are abnormal with the fuel pump selector placed > in the 'auto' position when the EIS voltmeter indication shows an increase > to 19.5-volts while an analog voltmeter shows a rather normal 14.3-volts. > > Really weird. I am going to spend the afternoon studying the rather > involved and complex (and sometimes missing) data in his three LARGE > three-ring binders to see if I can explain his symptoms. > > Any assistance would be appreciated. > > John > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vince-Himsl" <vhimsl(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Catto Propellor Delivery experience
Date: May 25, 2007
Catto Propeller: |3-Bladed Wood/Glass Composite |Propeller for RV-8 |66" Diameter x 76" Pitch |0-360 180HP@2700RPM |Top Speed at Target RPM-212mph@2800rpm |4.375" Finished Propeller Thickness |7" Diameter Prop Flange |SAE-2 Pattern, 1/2" Bolts and |3/4" Lugs Delivery Info: Prop ordered: 8apr2006 via paypal Prop Delivered: 17feb2007 Initial delivery estimate from Catto: at least 6 months out Initial delivery estimate gleaned from RV list archive search: 8 - 12 months Actual delivery: @10 months Communications: (electronic mail, I never phoned) Initial "I want it!" - great "Are we there yet emails" before estimated delivery - not so great "Are we there yet emails" after estimated delivery but before actual delivery- ok Follow up question regarding paint used on prop after delivery - great My Opinion: I am satisfied as I ordered early and I was not overly burdened by unrealistic expectations as to when I would get an extremely popular custom made propeller from essentially a one man operation. Regards, Vince H. RV8 - VSB Finish ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Eggenfelner FWF Probelm - Help!
Date: May 25, 2007
Another thing you might check John, is the proximity of the fuel pressure sensor lead to any 'fat' wires. I had a similar experience with my CHT & EGT because the sensor wires were too close to the large wire from the battery . The sensor wires need to be a minimum of 2 inches away from the magnetic field given off the high current wires. Dale Ensing ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 2:10 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Eggenfelner FWF Probelm - Help! > > John, sounds like the fuel pressure sensor wiring might not be correct. > It appears to me that when you turn on the ignition somehow more current > is flowing in the circuit than the system expects and this is read as more > pressure from the sensor. Check the wiring between the fuel pressure > sensor and the EIS. > > Ed > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Fasching" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com> > To: > Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 1:45 PM > Subject: RV-List: Eggenfelner FWF Probelm - Help! > > >> >> A friend is about done with an Eggenflener FWF pacakge in his RV7A and >> has asked me to look into a problem with the electronic/electrical >> system. >> >> Here's what is being observed, and if anyone has seen anything like this, >> I'd sure like to hear from you before I spend a LOT of time studying his >> manuals to see if I can deduce what the problem is. >> >> With the master switch on, fuel pressures appear normal as shown on his >> EIS and on a mechanical pressure indicator he has added. BUT when he >> switches on the ignition switch, (engine not running) the EIS shows >> increasing fuel pressures up to over 200PSI, which is wrong since the >> mechanical meter still shows the 31PSI or so that the EIS was showing >> before the ignition switch was placed to "on." The engine starts and runs >> normally. Also indications are abnormal with the fuel pump selector >> placed in the 'auto' position when the EIS voltmeter indication shows an >> increase to 19.5-volts while an analog voltmeter shows a rather normal >> 14.3-volts. >> >> Really weird. I am going to spend the afternoon studying the rather >> involved and complex (and sometimes missing) data in his three LARGE >> three-ring binders to see if I can explain his symptoms. >> >> Any assistance would be appreciated. >> >> John >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Spprtypilot <sportypilot(at)stx.rr.com>
Subject: Catto 3-blade propeller torque
Date: May 25, 2007
Its stamped on the prop -----Original Message----- From: "Vince-Himsl" <vhimsl(at)adelphia.net> Sent: 5/25/07 1:04 PM Subject: RV-List: Catto 3-blade propeller torque I can't find the proper torque value for my Catto 3-blade propeller. |3-Bladed Wood/Glass Composite |Propeller for RV-8 |66" Diameter x 76" Pitch |0-360 180HP@2700RPM |Top Speed at Target RPM-212mph@2800rpm |4.375" Finished Propeller Thickness |7" Diameter Prop Flange |SAE-2 Pattern, 1/2" Bolts and |3/4" Lugs Does anyone have it? I will email Catto if no one has it. But as he is building props rather than sitting in front of a computer I am hoping for a quicker response from the list. Regards, Vince H. Moscow, ID RV8 - VSB (finish) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Catto 3-blade propeller torque
Date: May 25, 2007
45 ft lbs but let me verify on the crush plate. Ron Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: Vince-Himsl To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 12:04 PM Subject: RV-List: Catto 3-blade propeller torque I can't find the proper torque value for my Catto 3-blade propeller. |3-Bladed Wood/Glass Composite |Propeller for RV-8 |66" Diameter x 76" Pitch |0-360 180HP@2700RPM |Top Speed at Target RPM-212mph@2800rpm |4.375" Finished Propeller Thickness |7" Diameter Prop Flange |SAE-2 Pattern, 1/2" Bolts and |3/4" Lugs Does anyone have it? I will email Catto if no one has it. But as he is building props rather than sitting in front of a computer I am hoping for a quicker response from the list. Regards, Vince H. Moscow, ID RV8 - VSB (finish) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Catto 3-blade propeller torque
Date: May 25, 2007
My catto has an information decal on the hub between two of the blades and the torque is listed there. I am not where I can check it to give the value to you. Jerry Calvert RV-6 Edmond Ok ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Lee To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 3:48 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Catto 3-blade propeller torque 45 ft lbs but let me verify on the crush plate. Ron Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: Vince-Himsl To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 12:04 PM Subject: RV-List: Catto 3-blade propeller torque I can't find the proper torque value for my Catto 3-blade propeller. |3-Bladed Wood/Glass Composite |Propeller for RV-8 |66" Diameter x 76" Pitch |0-360 180HP@2700RPM |Top Speed at Target RPM-212mph@2800rpm |4.375" Finished Propeller Thickness |7" Diameter Prop Flange |SAE-2 Pattern, 1/2" Bolts and |3/4" Lugs Does anyone have it? I will email Catto if no one has it. But as he is building props rather than sitting in front of a computer I am hoping for a quicker response from the list. Regards, Vince H. Moscow, ID RV8 - VSB (finish) href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vince-Himsl" <vhimsl(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Catto 3-blade propeller torque
Date: May 25, 2007
Duh...Brain frt! I knew I saw it somewhere but the spinner covers everything. Thanks Guys Vince H. RV8 - Finish -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Spprtypilot Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 1:19 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Catto 3-blade propeller torque Its stamped on the prop -----Original Message----- From: "Vince-Himsl" <vhimsl(at)adelphia.net> Sent: 5/25/07 1:04 PM Subject: RV-List: Catto 3-blade propeller torque I can't find the proper torque value for my Catto 3-blade propeller. |3-Bladed Wood/Glass Composite |Propeller for RV-8 |66" Diameter x 76" Pitch |0-360 180HP@2700RPM |Top Speed at Target RPM-212mph@2800rpm |4.375" Finished Propeller Thickness |7" Diameter Prop Flange |SAE-2 Pattern, 1/2" Bolts and |3/4" Lugs Does anyone have it? I will email Catto if no one has it. But as he is building props rather than sitting in front of a computer I am hoping for a quicker response from the list. Regards, Vince H. Moscow, ID RV8 - VSB (finish) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Catto 3-blade propeller torque
Date: May 25, 2007
I verifed the 45 ft lbs on my catto three blade prop, mfg June 2006 an hour ago. Info on the prop hub. Ron Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Lee To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 2:48 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Catto 3-blade propeller torque 45 ft lbs but let me verify on the crush plate. Ron Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: Vince-Himsl To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 12:04 PM Subject: RV-List: Catto 3-blade propeller torque I can't find the proper torque value for my Catto 3-blade propeller. |3-Bladed Wood/Glass Composite |Propeller for RV-8 |66" Diameter x 76" Pitch |0-360 180HP@2700RPM |Top Speed at Target RPM-212mph@2800rpm |4.375" Finished Propeller Thickness |7" Diameter Prop Flange |SAE-2 Pattern, 1/2" Bolts and |3/4" Lugs Does anyone have it? I will email Catto if no one has it. But as he is building props rather than sitting in front of a computer I am hoping for a quicker response from the list. Regards, Vince H. Moscow, ID RV8 - VSB (finish) href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vince-Himsl" <vhimsl(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Spinner wobble
Date: May 25, 2007
I am following the plans for mounting the spinner. Is the general consensus that these instructions are sufficient to prevent spinner wobble? Thanks! Vince H. RV8 Finish ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Walter" <dale1rv6(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Spinner wobble
Date: May 26, 2007
I believe so. The cut on the back of my cone was extremely accurate. If you have access to a pottery table (or similar rotating set up) it would be easy to verify. Dale RV6a _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vince-Himsl Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 1:37 AM Subject: RV-List: Spinner wobble I am following the plans for mounting the spinner. Is the general consensus that these instructions are sufficient to prevent spinner wobble? Thanks! Vince H. RV8 Finish ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karl Ahamer" <kahamer(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Spinner wobble
Date: May 26, 2007
Just installed mine today and checked the wobble by using a reference point at the tip of the spinner and turning the engine over by hand.Did not any adjustment at the front=85 Regards Karl Ahamer 7A -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vince-Himsl Sent: Saturday, 26 May 2007 3:37 PM Subject: RV-List: Spinner wobble I am following the plans for mounting the spinner. Is the general consensus that these instructions are sufficient to prevent spinner wobble? Thanks! Vince H. RV8 Finish "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?RV-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com 25/05/2007 12:32 PM 25/05/2007 12:32 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com>
Subject: skin dents
Date: May 26, 2007
Again, thanks to everyone who replied. I've tried to take close-up pictures of the dinged rivets but bare aluminum defeats my camera's auto-focus and even the manual pictures are difficult because light does funny things reflecting off the skin. However, there are pictures on my project website, http://www.flion.com/rv6a/Default.htm, that show some of the riveting from a distance, for what it's worth. I'm afraid you won't be able to tell much. However, I've been given the word from some locals that, while he is still on the rolls as a TC and has an A&P IA, no one pays much attention to him anymore. One of the locals (not a homebuilder or TC) inspected my airframe and assured me there was no problem other than cosmetic. He's offered to help me fix some of the dings that we can and said that, while he might redo one HS skin (the first I ever riveted) for cosmetic reasons, it shouldn't be an issue. He wasn't a fan of the filler route, because it would hide a rivet and leave an obvious gap in the pattern, but then went into some ideas to 'fake' a rivet in the filler. So the upshot is, I should be Ok. I still need to locate a TC (and there are some not as far away as PHX) to do the inspections for insurance, but at least I can quit worrying that I need to smelt down my work and start over. Boy, what a horrible experience that was. I think the big lesson learned here is not to blindly trust authority. I may be an amateur and don't trust my own skills completely, but that guy with a lifetime of experience behind him was completely off base. I also learned I need to ask around some more before I hire someone to do something for me. Thanks again for everyone's support and encouragement. Pat Kelley - RV-6A - tying up loose ends while waiting for avionics ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2007
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: skin dents
Patrick Kelley wrote: I still > need to locate a TC (and there are some not as far away as PHX) to do the > inspections for insurance, but at least I can quit worrying that I need to > smelt down my work and start over. Patrick, Sorry to hear you had an unpleasant Tech Counselor experience. I am confident yours was the rare exception and hopefully your story won't result in other builders hesitating to ask for a Tech Counselor visit. I don't think the Tech visits will have any impact on insurance rates. At one time there was an incentive when insuring but I'm pretty sure that particular program no longer exist. The value in participation in the Tech Counselor program is for your own safety and confidence. > Boy, what a horrible experience that was. I think the big lesson learned > here is not to blindly trust authority. I may be an amateur and don't trust > my own skills completely, but that guy with a lifetime of experience behind > him was completely off base. Yep, a healthy dose of skepticism is often useful! :-) I also learned I need to ask around some more > before I hire someone to do something for me. Thanks again for everyone's > support and encouragement. Hire?? I certainly hope you didn't pay for your Tech Counselor visit. These visits are supposed to be voluntary with the possible exception of free lunch or some help with gas money. Best wishes for a speedy conclusion to your project; you will love your new plane! Sam Buchanan http://thervjournal.com EAA Technical Counselor #4291 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: skin dents
Date: May 26, 2007
Your insurance rates may not be less because of TC reviews, but it may help with your airworthiness inspection. The FAA inspector that did my 6A asked me in our first conversation (while I was still building) if I had a TC look at the airplane and when he came for the visit he asked to see the TC reviews. But the best reason for a TC review of your project is your own safety. Dale Ensing RV-6A EAA TC #3061 > > Patrick, > > Sorry to hear you had an unpleasant Tech Counselor experience. I am > confident yours was the rare exception and hopefully your story won't > result in other builders hesitating to ask for a Tech Counselor visit. > > I don't think the Tech visits will have any impact on insurance rates. At > one time there was an incentive when insuring but I'm pretty sure that > particular program no longer exist. The value in participation in the Tech > Counselor program is for your own safety and confidence. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com>
Subject: skin dents
Date: May 26, 2007
As far as hire goes, he was coming from a distance so I was happy to pay a small amount to cover his gas, etc. If I get someone from farther away, I would still expect to help defer their travel; gas ain't cheap. I hadn't heard that the EAA insurance program or the tech inspection incentive had ended. But I'd still get the inspections, especially if I can get a TC with RV experience. Actually, I was lucky enough to have Miles Towner (Van's prototype shop employee) look over my project and he pointed out a few RV specific things that I would never have known about. (He also didn't say anything bad about my riveting quality but then again he didn't do a thorough inspection during his visit.) So I agree that the TC is a valuable thing. However, food for thought: There are not always Tech Counselors or even other builders available. When I started this project in Ann Arbor in '94 I was unable to locate any nearby builders. There was an active group somewhat north of Detroit, but the only help I got was from the shop at American International Airways, and they didn't know anything about the RV. In Chicago I could have had tons of help, but I wasn't able to work on the project there. In Flagstaff, I briefly met with a -9A builder, before he moved his project south, and there is now another builder who is about the same level as I. You know my TC situation. Frankly, I've been building in a vacuum and that's what allowed this guy to throw me for such a spin - I'm no judge of my own work. It'd be wonderful to have someone with experience looking over my shoulder, but what do you do when there's no one available? Pat Kelley - RV-6A -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 6:17 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: skin dents Patrick Kelley wrote: I still > need to locate a TC (and there are some not as far away as PHX) to do the > inspections for insurance, but at least I can quit worrying that I need to > smelt down my work and start over. Patrick, Sorry to hear you had an unpleasant Tech Counselor experience. I am confident yours was the rare exception and hopefully your story won't result in other builders hesitating to ask for a Tech Counselor visit. I don't think the Tech visits will have any impact on insurance rates. At one time there was an incentive when insuring but I'm pretty sure that particular program no longer exist. The value in participation in the Tech Counselor program is for your own safety and confidence. > Boy, what a horrible experience that was. I think the big lesson learned > here is not to blindly trust authority. I may be an amateur and don't trust > my own skills completely, but that guy with a lifetime of experience behind > him was completely off base. Yep, a healthy dose of skepticism is often useful! :-) I also learned I need to ask around some more > before I hire someone to do something for me. Thanks again for everyone's > support and encouragement. Hire?? I certainly hope you didn't pay for your Tech Counselor visit. These visits are supposed to be voluntary with the possible exception of free lunch or some help with gas money. Best wishes for a speedy conclusion to your project; you will love your new plane! Sam Buchanan http://thervjournal.com EAA Technical Counselor #4291 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2007
From: George Inman 204 287 8334 <ghinman(at)mts.net>
Subject: Spinner wobble
You can spin the prop on a table just on a smooth piece of plastic with a round piece of wood tacked in the center to fit the center hole of the prop or prop.extension. I have pics. of my setup if you want. Subject: RV-List: Spinner wobble I am following the plans for mounting the spinner. Is the general consensus that these instructions are sufficient to prevent spinner wobble? Thanks! Vince H. George H. Inman ghinman(at)mts.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2007
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: skin dents
Patrick Kelley wrote: > > As far as hire goes, he was coming from a distance so I was happy to pay a > small amount to cover his gas, etc. If I get someone from farther away, I > would still expect to help defer their travel; gas ain't cheap. No doubt the gas money was appreciated and appropriate. I've had "offers" to inspect projects a state or so away and it seemed the builders expected me to drop whatever I was doing and burn my RV money for the privilege of flying to see their projects. ;-) I've never accepted gratuities for the many projects inspected in the north Alabama area and the technical counselor visits have been most enjoyable. > However, food for thought: There are not always Tech Counselors or even > other builders available. When I started this project in Ann Arbor in '94 I > was unable to locate any nearby builders. There was an active group > somewhat north of Detroit, but the only help I got was from the shop at > American International Airways, and they didn't know anything about the RV. > In Chicago I could have had tons of help, but I wasn't able to work on the > project there. In Flagstaff, I briefly met with a -9A builder, before he > moved his project south, and there is now another builder who is about the > same level as I. You know my TC situation. Frankly, I've been building in > a vacuum and that's what allowed this guy to throw me for such a spin - I'm > no judge of my own work. It'd be wonderful to have someone with experience > looking over my shoulder, but what do you do when there's no one available? This does present a difficult situation for a builder. Perhaps a very good option for a builder who expects to be working in a vacuum is to take advantage of one of the excellent weekend RV construction workshops. In my opinion, the expense of traveling to the workshop would be a bargain considering the potential problems and aggravation that could arise from constructing an aircraft with *no* technical background. After "graduating" from a workshop, the builder will have not only a good sense of what is acceptable workmanship, but the confidence to pursue the process. I have also had a couple of builders from quite some distance who took the time to bring their completed vertical or horizontal stab to my shop or hangar so we could discuss any questions they had concerning the build. The internet, in spite of potential pitfalls, is the greatest resource ever offered to a custom plane builder. The builder who is working without local assistance needs to get totally up to speed on the various forums and email lists and read them religiously. Only by sifting through a lot of info can the isolated builder begin to separate the wheat from the chaff. Many times close relationships with reliable distant builders are established and their input can be invaluable even though they may be a coast away. Building in a location without local assistance puts an additional burden on the builder to do whatever is necessary to insure a safe aircraft. And, support needs to be gained in whatever way is necessary in order to have a build experience that is not only safe but enjoyable. There is no point in taking on a huge project such as building a plane if the process isn't fun and fulfilling. Patrick, I admire your tenacity over the years of pursuing your dream and am confident you will see the project to conclusion. Let us know how we can help. Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Best software for logging build progress?
From: "pequeajim" <pequeajim(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 26, 2007
What is the best software for logging your work building an aircraft? I have heard of KitLog Pro. Is this the best? I also want to be able to publish my progress to the web. Jim! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114975#114975 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: May 27, 2007
Subject: Re: Best software for logging build progress?
In a message dated 5/26/2007 5:34:20 PM Central Daylight Time, pequeajim(at)gmail.com writes: What is the best software for logging your work building an aircraft? I have heard of KitLog Pro. Is this the best? I also want to be able to publish my progress to the web. Take a look at: _http://expercraft.com/_ (http://expercraft.com/) RV builder Rob Riggen created and hosts this site and it is a really great resource with many builders worldwide using it. Here's mine: _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/) Very easy to use and just about all you could ask for- and you can't beat the price! Thanks again, Rob! Mark Phillips ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Best software for logging build progress?
From: "rock5219" <rer51(at)netscape.ca>
Date: May 27, 2007
I have been using KitLog Pro for about 6 months. Works real nice. One of these days I will be using the "Post it to the Internet" function. Randy RV9A C-FYOO Finishing Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115034#115034 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2007
From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)charter.net>
Subject: CHT vents
Ron, I saw an old post about your cowl louvers. Are they what made the big differance? My CHT's are getting up to 455 by about 2500 ft on climb out and then I level off til they come down to about 430 then I climb some more. At cruise I am seeing 410-420. I would really like to see them more like 350 at cruise. This is at about 87 degree F OAT on the ground. Any other suggestions? Were did you get you louvers? -- Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2007
From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)charter.net>
Subject: Nose gear lube
My swiveling nose wheel has gotten jerky. Will just squirting a few shots of grease in the zert fitting take care of this or do I need to take it all apart clean, grease and reassemble? 65 hrs. on it. -- Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: CHT vents
Date: May 28, 2007
I did three things. 1) Remove the extra tubing that went with a dual cabin heat system (tubes all over in the back of the engine area). 2) Opened up the bottom of the cowl around the exhaust. 3) Added louvers made by a friend of a friend. I don't know where my flight test numbers are but my recollection is that I got about equal improvement from all three. This was after ensuring that the baffling and associated sealing was in good order. Ron Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bobby Hester" <bobbyhester(at)charter.net> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 6:50 AM Subject: RV-List: CHT vents > > Ron, I saw an old post about your cowl louvers. Are they what made the big > differance? My CHT's are getting up to 455 by about 2500 ft on climb out > and then I level off til they come down to about 430 then I climb some > more. At cruise I am seeing 410-420. I would really like to see them more > like 350 at cruise. This is at about 87 degree F OAT on the ground. Any > other suggestions? Were did you get you louvers? > > -- > Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY > Visit my RV7A website: > http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2007
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: CHT vents
Bobby Hester wrote: > > Ron, I saw an old post about your cowl louvers. Are they what made the > big differance? My CHT's are getting up to 455 by about 2500 ft on climb > out and then I level off til they come down to about 430 then I climb > some more. At cruise I am seeing 410-420. I would really like to see > them more like 350 at cruise. This is at about 87 degree F OAT on the > ground. Any other suggestions? Were did you get you louvers? > Bobby - If I understand properly, you have a 180 hp engine. There are many, many RV-7/7As flying with this engine without CHT problems. While adding cowl louvers might bring your CHTs down, I fear that you would simply be curing the symptom, without really fixing the basic problem. This could lead to greater grief down the road, if the basic problem is significant. For example, some people have high CHTs due to a too lean mixture, caused by the wrong carb. If this were the problem, it would be far better to find it and fix it now. Kevin Horton Ottawa, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2007
From: "Vinod Wahi" <vinod.wahi(at)googlemail.com>
Subject: Trim Tab RV9a Builders manual
Hi every boby, building Trim tab for my RV9a in germany. Unfortunately lost page nr. 6-9 and 6-10 from my building manuals for trim tabs. Looking for these pages, if I could get a scand copy or PDF of these pages. Thanks. RV9a Builder Vinod Wahi Mailto:vinod.wahi(at)googlemail.com www.wahi-air.com Tel.: +381 64 482 1139 Tel.Germany:+49 172 4038 502 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
Date: May 28, 2007
Subject: RV-6a FS PDX OR ...1/2 share
Folks, I am selling my 50% interest in a pristine RV-6a because I have completed mine and find I can only fly one RV at a time... This is in the Portland, OR area, so if any of you are moving here and would like a great partnership, please email for details and pix. In a nutshell it's a 2002 with Lyco 360/CS 500ttsnew AF eng prop. Pro paint, recent glass panel. No pesky vac sytem. Currently hangared at KUAO, aka "home" for RV's, 1/4 mile from Van's front door. Jerry Cochran 503 925 1517h 503 702 2663c _jerry2dt(at)aol.com_ (mailto:jerry2dt(at)aol.com) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: sturdy(at)att.net
Subject: Texas Formation Clinic
Date: May 28, 2007
Texas Formation Clinic, 22-24 Jun, at Brownwood (KBWD) Okay, Memorial Day is just about over and the Texas Formation Clinic at Brownwood TX (KBWD) is just around the corner, 22-24 Jun. Kahuna and I will present another formation clinic, this time in Texas. If you plan on attending, please sign up (stumccurdy -at- earthlink.net). Please state First and Last Name, Call Sign, Type Plane, Tail #, Contact #, Home Base, Experience Level, FFI #, and any comments. I have 19 on my list so far. Classroom Friday afternoon, fly all day Saturday, large formation Sunday morning. Airport will provide hangar space, a 15 passenger van, and discounted fuel. Their BBQ chef will do a Texas BBQ Sat at the airport. Block of 40 rooms under "Formation Clinic" at Days Inn, 325-646-2551, $54/night plus C of C will provide a $30 discount coupon off the bill. Wide open airspace, 150'wide runway, large ramp space. Should be a great clinic location. No charge for clinic, just minimal amount for expenses. Friday afternoon classroom session is required to fly in the clinic. Minimum requirements are excellent stick and rudder skills in your airplane (100 hours), no vernier throttles, fully operational controls, intercom, and radio PTT in the other seat for the safety pilot, and a desire to fly well executed, disciplined formation. Newbees and Novices will be paired with an experienced formation safety pilot until "cleared solo". Please make your Days Inn motel reservations (325-646-2551) soonest as the block ends 8 Jun. Mention the "Formation Clinic". Hope to see y'all sign up. Stu McCurdy (Falcon)
Texas Formation Clinic, 22-24 Jun, at Brownwood (KBWD)

Okay, Memorial Day is just about over and the Texas Formation Clinic at Brownwood TX (KBWD) is just around the corner, 22-24 Jun. Kahuna and I will present another formation clinic, this time in Texas. If you plan on attending, please sign up (stumccurdy -at- earthlink.net). Please state First and Last Name, Call Sign, Type Plane, Tail #, Contact #, Home Base, Experience Level, FFI #, and any comments. I have 19 on my list so far.

Classroom Friday afternoon, fly all day Saturday, large formation Sunday morning. Airport will provide hangar space, a 15 passenger van, and discounted fuel. Their BBQ chef will do a Texas BBQ Sat at the airport. Block of 40 rooms under "Formation Clinic" at Days Inn, 325-646-2551, $54/night plus C of C will provide a $30 discount coupon off the bill. Wide open airspace, 150'wide runway, large ramp space. Should be a great clinic location. No charge for clinic, just minimal amount for expenses. Friday afternoon classroom session is required to fly in the clinic.

Minimum requirements are excellent stick and rudder skills in your airplane (100 hours), no vernier throttles, fully operational controls, intercom, and radio PTT in the other seat for the safety pilot, and a desire to fly well executed, disciplined formation. Newbees and Novices will be paired with an experienced formation safety pilot until "cleared solo".

Please make your Days Inn motel reservations (325-646-2551) soonest as the block ends 8 Jun. Mention the "Formation Clinic".

Hope to see y'all sign up.

Stu McCurdy (Falcon)

________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2007
From: Carl Peters <say.ahh1(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Best software for logging build progress?
I've been using KitLog Pro. I didn't want to spend a bunch of time to become saavy at hosting with a custom website (nor spend the money), so this worked out great. After 9 months of use, no problems. Only drawback is can only post 3 pics per entry - rarely a problem, but sometimes I want to show something in detail, such as recent xenon HID landing light conversion from the Duckworks halogen kit. A big plus, and one you want to check on with any competitors, is that your own computer stores everything created, and it is not simply hosted externally on a company's server. If the company goes tango uniform, you don't want to lose any data. Carl http://www.mykitlog.com/cnpeters ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Best software for logging build progress?
From: "pequeajim" <pequeajim(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 28, 2007
Nice site Carl, thanks for the tip! I will probably be going with KitLog Pro. The upgrade to 2.1 is free also. Jim! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115298#115298 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Charles Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com>
Subject: N11CB Flies!
Date: May 29, 2007
After nearly eight years and 2700 hours of building, Van's kit #60316 slipped the surly bonds at approximately 10:45 AM, May 28th, at San Geronimo Airport (8T8) near San Antonio. A Memorial Day to remember. N11CB, a slow built RV-6A Quickbuild, was powered by an IO-320 Lycoming with AFP fuel injection and Jeff Rose Electroair Ignition turning a Whirlwind 3 blade prop. Flown by owner/builder Charlie Brame, the bird leapt into the air after a 300 foot take off roll and flew straight and level with hands off and feet flat on the floor. IFR equipped, it weighed 1100# in prime. Many thanks go to members of this list, all the San Antonio area RV-builders, EAA Chapter 35, and, especially, to my very good friend, Paul McReynolds, EAA Tech Advisor and RV-Guru, RV builder Extraordinaire, 1987 Oshkosh Grand Champion and Orville Wright Award Winner. Charlie Brame RV-6A N11CB San Antonio ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2007
From: Richard Dudley <rhdudley1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: N11CB Flies!
Congratulations, Charlie!!!!! Worth all the hard work and head holding!!!! Regards, Richard Dudley -6A flying Charles Brame wrote: > > After nearly eight years and 2700 hours of building, Van's kit #60316 > slipped the surly bonds at approximately 10:45 AM, May 28th, at San > Geronimo Airport (8T8) near San Antonio. A Memorial Day to > remember. N11CB, a slow built RV-6A Quickbuild, was powered by an > IO-320 Lycoming with AFP fuel injection and Jeff Rose Electroair > Ignition turning a Whirlwind 3 blade prop. Flown by owner/builder > Charlie Brame, the bird leapt into the air after a 300 foot take off > roll and flew straight and level with hands off and feet flat on the > floor. IFR equipped, it weighed 1100# in prime. Many thanks go to > members of this list, all the San Antonio area RV-builders, EAA > Chapter 35, and, especially, to my very good friend, Paul McReynolds, > EAA Tech Advisor and RV-Guru, RV builder Extraordinaire, 1987 Oshkosh > Grand Champion and Orville Wright Award Winner. > > Charlie Brame > RV-6A N11CB > San Antonio > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Nose gear lube
Date: May 29, 2007
I would recommend not squirting anything in the grease fitting. Long a go there were reports of excess grease melting/oozing down on the bell washer and giving you the shakes on landing. Haven't heard much lately. Have been slathering a little #5 grease on the wear points after dissassembly and put it back together, once a year. Has worked ok for my first 3,300 landings. P S check the big washers for burrs. Jerky is not usual. Be sure and adjust tension for prescribed break out force. Denis Walsh On May 28, 2007, at 07:17 262740005, Bobby Hester wrote: > > My swiveling nose wheel has gotten jerky. Will just squirting a few > shots of grease in the zert fitting take care of this or do I need > to take it all apart clean, grease and reassemble? 65 hrs. on it. > > -- > Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY > Visit my RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/ > MyFlyingRV7A.htm > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: CHT vents
Date: May 29, 2007
Bobby, My plane was essentially self grounded till I could fix the high CHT problem. I tightened up the cowl, sealed around the front intake ramps, put a door across the back of my oil cooler (cooler temps around 160-170) and absolutely no joy. Finally I added louvers I got from Alex De Dominicis in Texas. I think you can reach him through his website at http://www.RVtraining.com After this my plane was flying again. My CHT will still climb to near 450 on climb out sometimes but will be under 400 for cruise. They do make a difference. I cannot say this is the cure all as Kevin mentioned there is a reason mine runs hot and so many others don't. I just don't know what it is. My next step is to remove some more of the lower cowling around the exhaust area as mine is particularly smaller since my scoop portion actually hangs back over the airframe about 2 inches. I am going to remove all of that this week before I fly this coming weekend. If you haven't done that, it would be advisable. I am still trying to get mine down quite a bit more. My plane is an RV-6 with 0-360A1A and constant speed prop. I am flying without wheel pants or leg fairings. Tim > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton > Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 8:47 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: CHT vents > > > Bobby Hester wrote: > > > > > Ron, I saw an old post about your cowl louvers. Are they what made the > > big differance? My CHT's are getting up to 455 by about 2500 ft on climb > > out and then I level off til they come down to about 430 then I climb > > some more. At cruise I am seeing 410-420. I would really like to see > > them more like 350 at cruise. This is at about 87 degree F OAT on the > > ground. Any other suggestions? Were did you get you louvers? > > > > Bobby - If I understand properly, you have a 180 hp engine. There are > many, many RV-7/7As flying with this engine without CHT problems. While > adding cowl louvers might bring your CHTs down, I fear that you would > simply be curing the symptom, without really fixing the basic problem. > This could lead to greater grief down the road, if the basic problem is > significant. For example, some people have high CHTs due to a too lean > mixture, caused by the wrong carb. If this were the problem, it would be > far better to find it and fix it now. > > Kevin Horton > Ottawa, Canada > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2007
From: Bob <panamared5(at)brier.net>
Subject: Builder Support
At 09:11 AM 5/26/07, you wrote: >When I started this project in Ann Arbor in '94 I >was unable to locate any nearby builders. There was an active group >somewhat north of Detroit, but the only help I got was from the shop at >American International Airways, and they didn't know anything about the RV. >In Chicago I could have had tons of help, but I wasn't able to work on the >project there. In Flagstaff, I briefly met with a -9A builder, before he >moved his project south, and there is now another builder who is about the >same level as I. Interesting. One reason I built an RV was because of the extensive builder support. In the 90's when I built my RV, I built it in New Mexico, Texas, California and West Virginia. Most of the time, I was in walking distance of other builders, and I never lived more than 10 miles from a builder. This was all by chance. I have found that looking at another RV is a very valuable experience. Even though I am finished, I still look to see how others did certain things. I have found that there is no one right way to do things. Builders constantly amaze me with their innovative solutions for building RVs. Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: CHT vents
From: Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au>
Date: May 30, 2007
There has been discussion about two issues that may be a factor for you, first was casting flash obstructing airflow and the second was adding some spacers (washers only) between baffles and cylinders at the mounting bolts. Sorry I cannot be more specific I not familiar with the specifics, others may be able to add detail. Doug Gray > > Bobby, > > My plane was essentially self grounded till I could fix the high CHT > problem. I tightened up the cowl, sealed around the front intake ramps, put > a door across the back of my oil cooler (cooler temps around 160-170) and > absolutely no joy. Finally I added louvers I got from Alex De Dominicis in > Texas. I think you can reach him through his website at > http://www.RVtraining.com After this my plane was flying again. My CHT > will still climb to near 450 on climb out sometimes but will be under 400 > for cruise. They do make a difference. I cannot say this is the cure all > as Kevin mentioned there is a reason mine runs hot and so many others don't. > I just don't know what it is. > > My next step is to remove some more of the lower cowling around the exhaust > area as mine is particularly smaller since my scoop portion actually hangs > back over the airframe about 2 inches. I am going to remove all of that > this week before I fly this coming weekend. If you haven't done that, it > would be advisable. I am still trying to get mine down quite a bit more. > > My plane is an RV-6 with 0-360A1A and constant speed prop. I am flying > without wheel pants or leg fairings. > Tim > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton > > Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 8:47 AM > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV-List: CHT vents > > > > > > Bobby Hester wrote: > > > > > > > > Ron, I saw an old post about your cowl louvers. Are they what made the > > > big differance? My CHT's are getting up to 455 by about 2500 ft on climb > > > out and then I level off til they come down to about 430 then I climb > > > some more. At cruise I am seeing 410-420. I would really like to see > > > them more like 350 at cruise. This is at about 87 degree F OAT on the > > > ground. Any other suggestions? Were did you get you louvers? > > > > > > > Bobby - If I understand properly, you have a 180 hp engine. There are > > many, many RV-7/7As flying with this engine without CHT problems. While > > adding cowl louvers might bring your CHTs down, I fear that you would > > simply be curing the symptom, without really fixing the basic problem. > > This could lead to greater grief down the road, if the basic problem is > > significant. For example, some people have high CHTs due to a too lean > > mixture, caused by the wrong carb. If this were the problem, it would be > > far better to find it and fix it now. > > > > Kevin Horton > > Ottawa, Canada > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: CHT vents
Date: May 29, 2007
I should have mentioned; I did check for casting flash and did not see anything significant. I may not have looked in the right place or something however. I also did add washers to the rear of the baffles where they typically would restrict the airflow around the rear cylinders. I saw no difference in my application but others have so Bobby may want to check this on his. Thanks for bringing these points up. Tim > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Gray > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 9:25 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: CHT vents > > > There has been discussion about two issues that may be a factor for you, > first was casting flash obstructing airflow and the second was adding > some spacers (washers only) between baffles and cylinders at the > mounting bolts. > > Sorry I cannot be more specific I not familiar with the specifics, > others may be able to add detail. > > Doug Gray > > > > > > > Bobby, > > > > My plane was essentially self grounded till I could fix the high CHT > > problem. I tightened up the cowl, sealed around the front intake ramps, > put > > a door across the back of my oil cooler (cooler temps around 160-170) > and > > absolutely no joy. Finally I added louvers I got from Alex De Dominicis > in > > Texas. I think you can reach him through his website at > > http://www.RVtraining.com After this my plane was flying again. My CHT > > will still climb to near 450 on climb out sometimes but will be under > 400 > > for cruise. They do make a difference. I cannot say this is the cure > all > > as Kevin mentioned there is a reason mine runs hot and so many others > don't. > > I just don't know what it is. > > > > My next step is to remove some more of the lower cowling around the > exhaust > > area as mine is particularly smaller since my scoop portion actually > hangs > > back over the airframe about 2 inches. I am going to remove all of that > > this week before I fly this coming weekend. If you haven't done that, > it > > would be advisable. I am still trying to get mine down quite a bit > more. > > > > My plane is an RV-6 with 0-360A1A and constant speed prop. I am flying > > without wheel pants or leg fairings. > > Tim > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > > > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton > > > Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 8:47 AM > > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > > Subject: Re: RV-List: CHT vents > > > > > > > > > Bobby Hester wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ron, I saw an old post about your cowl louvers. Are they what made > the > > > > big differance? My CHT's are getting up to 455 by about 2500 ft on > climb > > > > out and then I level off til they come down to about 430 then I > climb > > > > some more. At cruise I am seeing 410-420. I would really like to see > > > > them more like 350 at cruise. This is at about 87 degree F OAT on > the > > > > ground. Any other suggestions? Were did you get you louvers? > > > > > > > > > > Bobby - If I understand properly, you have a 180 hp engine. There are > > > many, many RV-7/7As flying with this engine without CHT problems. > While > > > adding cowl louvers might bring your CHTs down, I fear that you would > > > simply be curing the symptom, without really fixing the basic problem. > > > This could lead to greater grief down the road, if the basic problem > is > > > significant. For example, some people have high CHTs due to a too > lean > > > mixture, caused by the wrong carb. If this were the problem, it would > be > > > far better to find it and fix it now. > > > > > > Kevin Horton > > > Ottawa, Canada > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: CHT vents
Date: May 29, 2007
> My plane is an RV-6 with 0-360A1A and constant speed prop. I am flying > without wheel pants or leg fairings. > Tim > Adding wheel pants and leg fairings will add 10-15 knots at ZERO additional power. That means additional cooling with no changes. Seems like that should be a priority. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: N11CB Flies!
Date: May 29, 2007
Charlie, CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!!!! Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A >From: Charles Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com> >Subject: RV-List: N11CB Flies! >Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 00:01:55 -0500 > >After nearly eight years and 2700 hours of building, Van's kit #60316 >slipped the surly bonds at approximately 10:45 AM, May 28th, at San >Geronimo Airport (8T8) near San Antonio. > >Charlie Brame >RV-6A N11CB >San Antonio _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazines 2007 editors choice for best Web mailaward-winning Windows Live Hotmail. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2007
From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: CHT vents
Tim, place a lightbulb below the cylinder and look down through the fins around the spark plug. There should be about 1/8" (maybe less) between the fins. With the light, it will be apparent if the flashing is there. I see it on almost every Lycoming cylinder I look at. Linn Tim Bryan wrote: > >I should have mentioned; I did check for casting flash and did not see >anything significant. I may not have looked in the right place or something >however. I also did add washers to the rear of the baffles where they >typically would restrict the airflow around the rear cylinders. I saw no >difference in my application but others have so Bobby may want to check this >on his. Thanks for bringing these points up. > >Tim > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- >>server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Gray >>Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 9:25 AM >>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >>Subject: RE: RV-List: CHT vents >> >> >>There has been discussion about two issues that may be a factor for you, >>first was casting flash obstructing airflow and the second was adding >>some spacers (washers only) between baffles and cylinders at the >>mounting bolts. >> >>Sorry I cannot be more specific I not familiar with the specifics, >>others may be able to add detail. >> >>Doug Gray >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>>Bobby, >>> >>>My plane was essentially self grounded till I could fix the high CHT >>>problem. I tightened up the cowl, sealed around the front intake ramps, >>> >>> >>put >> >> >>>a door across the back of my oil cooler (cooler temps around 160-170) >>> >>> >>and >> >> >>>absolutely no joy. Finally I added louvers I got from Alex De Dominicis >>> >>> >>in >> >> >>>Texas. I think you can reach him through his website at >>>http://www.RVtraining.com After this my plane was flying again. My CHT >>>will still climb to near 450 on climb out sometimes but will be under >>> >>> >>400 >> >> >>>for cruise. They do make a difference. I cannot say this is the cure >>> >>> >>all >> >> >>>as Kevin mentioned there is a reason mine runs hot and so many others >>> >>> >>don't. >> >> >>>I just don't know what it is. >>> >>>My next step is to remove some more of the lower cowling around the >>> >>> >>exhaust >> >> >>>area as mine is particularly smaller since my scoop portion actually >>> >>> >>hangs >> >> >>>back over the airframe about 2 inches. I am going to remove all of that >>>this week before I fly this coming weekend. If you haven't done that, >>> >>> >>it >> >> >>>would be advisable. I am still trying to get mine down quite a bit >>> >>> >>more. >> >> >>>My plane is an RV-6 with 0-360A1A and constant speed prop. I am flying >>>without wheel pants or leg fairings. >>>Tim >>> >>> >>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- >>>>server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton >>>>Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 8:47 AM >>>>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >>>>Subject: Re: RV-List: CHT vents >>>> >>>> >>>>Bobby Hester wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>Ron, I saw an old post about your cowl louvers. Are they what made >>>>> >>>>> >>the >> >> >>>>>big differance? My CHT's are getting up to 455 by about 2500 ft on >>>>> >>>>> >>climb >> >> >>>>>out and then I level off til they come down to about 430 then I >>>>> >>>>> >>climb >> >> >>>>>some more. At cruise I am seeing 410-420. I would really like to see >>>>>them more like 350 at cruise. This is at about 87 degree F OAT on >>>>> >>>>> >>the >> >> >>>>>ground. Any other suggestions? Were did you get you louvers? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>Bobby - If I understand properly, you have a 180 hp engine. There are >>>>many, many RV-7/7As flying with this engine without CHT problems. >>>> >>>> >>While >> >> >>>>adding cowl louvers might bring your CHTs down, I fear that you would >>>>simply be curing the symptom, without really fixing the basic problem. >>>>This could lead to greater grief down the road, if the basic problem >>>> >>>> >>is >> >> >>>>significant. For example, some people have high CHTs due to a too >>>> >>>> >>lean >> >> >>>>mixture, caused by the wrong carb. If this were the problem, it would >>>> >>>> >>be >> >> >>>>far better to find it and fix it now. >>>> >>>>Kevin Horton >>>>Ottawa, Canada >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Fw: Insurance Limitations
Date: May 29, 2007
Thought some of you might want to be aware of an exchange my insurance broker/agent and I had regarding a one sentence caveat - that I at least had not noticed before this year's renewal Coverage may be limited &/or Different during any restriction fly off period This is a restriction put in place by the underwriter (not the broker) and pertains to the 24-40 hour period required for test phase before restrictions are removed. I also asked about the 5 hour test period after a major modification is made - the response was that any kind of restriction or requirement to conduct test flights fell under the same caveat. What the coverage limitations involved was no passenger liability and a 10% increase in deductibles during that period. Just thought I would mention it - your insurer may of course have different rules. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2007
Subject: Best software for logging build progress?
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Jim, There are several systems. I use the "expercraft.com" system. Take a look. It is quite simple and I have used it for three years. Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: doug.medema(at)comcast.net
Subject: Best way to clean fiberglass
Date: May 29, 2007
All right all you painter types: What is the best way to clean fiberglass before priming and between cycles of PPG K38 followed by sanding? Soap & water? Rubbing alcohol? One of the special antistatic cleaners from Dupont or SW? Something else? I've heard bad things about using acetone - I understand it soaks into the resin and dries very slowly. Thanks, Doug Medema RV-6A N276DM -- finally painting (1st flight 11/2003!)
All right all you painter types:

What is the best way to clean fiberglass before priming

and between cycles of PPG K38 followed by sanding?

Soap & water? Rubbing alcohol? One of the special

antistatic cleaners from Dupont or SW? Something else?

I've heard bad things about using acetone - I understand

it soaks into the resin and dries very slowly.

Thanks,

Doug Medema

RV-6A N276DM -- finally painting (1st flight 11/2003!)

________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: Best way to clean fiberglass
Date: May 29, 2007
I haven't used it yet but I purchased Acryli-Clean DX330 also by ppg. Tim _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug.medema(at)comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 4:48 PM Subject: RV-List: Best way to clean fiberglass All right all you painter types: What is the best way to clean fiberglass before priming and between cycles of PPG K38 followed by sanding? Soap & water? Rubbing alcohol? One of the special antistatic cleaners from Dupont or SW? Something else? I've heard bad things about using acetone - I understand it soaks into the resin and dries very slowly. Thanks, Doug Medema RV-6A N276DM -- finally painting (1st flight 11/2003!) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Best way to clean fiberglass
Date: May 29, 2007
Contrary to what you've heard, acetone is still the best cleaner. It dries very fast and doesn't soak into cured fiberglass lay-ups. Been there and done that, many, many times. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug.medema(at)comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 5:48 PM Subject: RV-List: Best way to clean fiberglass All right all you painter types: What is the best way to clean fiberglass before priming and between cycles of PPG K38 followed by sanding? Soap & water? Rubbing alcohol? One of the special antistatic cleaners from Dupont or SW? Something else? I've heard bad things about using acetone - I understand it soaks into the resin and dries very slowly. Thanks, Doug Medema RV-6A N276DM -- finally painting (1st flight 11/2003!) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Best way to clean fiberglass
Date: May 29, 2007
After cleaning bare fiberglass with acetone, then after your first coat of primer, use whatever cleaning solvent recommended by your primer manufacturer. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 6:13 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Best way to clean fiberglass I haven't used it yet but I purchased Acryli-Clean DX330 also by ppg. Tim _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug.medema(at)comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 4:48 PM Subject: RV-List: Best way to clean fiberglass All right all you painter types: What is the best way to clean fiberglass before priming and between cycles of PPG K38 followed by sanding? Soap & water? Rubbing alcohol? One of the special antistatic cleaners from Dupont or SW? Something else? I've heard bad things about using acetone - I understand it soaks into the resin and dries very slowly. Thanks, Doug Medema RV-6A N276DM -- finally painting (1st flight 11/2003!) http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2007
From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: CHT vents
My engine is a Superior XP-0360 There is no casting flashing on the cylinders I added a washer at the rear screw/bolt on the #3 cylinder to help cool that cylinder. I've sealed all holes that I can find. Baffling seems to be sealing farely well. The cowl exit is cut off even, all the way across. Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm Doug Gray wrote: > >There has been discussion about two issues that may be a factor for you, >first was casting flash obstructing airflow and the second was adding >some spacers (washers only) between baffles and cylinders at the >mounting bolts. > >Sorry I cannot be more specific I not familiar with the specifics, >others may be able to add detail. > >Doug Gray > > > > >> >>Bobby, >> >>My plane was essentially self grounded till I could fix the high CHT >>problem. I tightened up the cowl, sealed around the front intake ramps, put >>a door across the back of my oil cooler (cooler temps around 160-170) and >>absolutely no joy. Finally I added louvers I got from Alex De Dominicis in >>Texas. I think you can reach him through his website at >>http://www.RVtraining.com After this my plane was flying again. My CHT >>will still climb to near 450 on climb out sometimes but will be under 400 >>for cruise. They do make a difference. I cannot say this is the cure all >>as Kevin mentioned there is a reason mine runs hot and so many others don't. >>I just don't know what it is. >> >>My next step is to remove some more of the lower cowling around the exhaust >>area as mine is particularly smaller since my scoop portion actually hangs >>back over the airframe about 2 inches. I am going to remove all of that >>this week before I fly this coming weekend. If you haven't done that, it >>would be advisable. I am still trying to get mine down quite a bit more. >> >>My plane is an RV-6 with 0-360A1A and constant speed prop. I am flying >>without wheel pants or leg fairings. >>Tim >> >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- >>>server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton >>>Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 8:47 AM >>>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >>>Subject: Re: RV-List: CHT vents >>> >>> >>>Bobby Hester wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>Ron, I saw an old post about your cowl louvers. Are they what made the >>>>big differance? My CHT's are getting up to 455 by about 2500 ft on climb >>>>out and then I level off til they come down to about 430 then I climb >>>>some more. At cruise I am seeing 410-420. I would really like to see >>>>them more like 350 at cruise. This is at about 87 degree F OAT on the >>>>ground. Any other suggestions? Were did you get you louvers? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Bobby - If I understand properly, you have a 180 hp engine. There are >>>many, many RV-7/7As flying with this engine without CHT problems. While >>>adding cowl louvers might bring your CHTs down, I fear that you would >>>simply be curing the symptom, without really fixing the basic problem. >>>This could lead to greater grief down the road, if the basic problem is >>>significant. For example, some people have high CHTs due to a too lean >>>mixture, caused by the wrong carb. If this were the problem, it would be >>>far better to find it and fix it now. >>> >>>Kevin Horton >>>Ottawa, Canada >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2007
From: John Huft <rv8tor(at)lazy8.net>
Subject: Re: CHT vents
Bobby, have you checked the mag timing? Not using LASAR are you? The other common problem is too lean a mixture...do you have the usual 50 rpm rise when you pull the mixture to idle cutoff when shutting down? The baffles that come with the engine, that go in between the cylinders often have some pretty big holes where they go up against the case. I think Kevin is right, the basic design of the cowl has worked on many similar engines...I wouldn't cut it up unless I had tried every other possibility. Good luck, John Bobby Hester wrote: > My engine is a Superior XP-0360 > There is no casting flashing on the cylinders > I added a washer at the rear screw/bolt on the #3 cylinder to help > cool that cylinder. > I've sealed all holes that I can find. > Baffling seems to be sealing farely well. > The cowl exit is cut off even, all the way across. > > Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY > Visit my RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm > > > Doug Gray wrote: >> >> There has been discussion about two issues that may be a factor for you, >> first was casting flash obstructing airflow and the second was adding >> some spacers (washers only) between baffles and cylinders at the >> mounting bolts. >> >> Sorry I cannot be more specific I not familiar with the specifics, >> others may be able to add detail. >> >> Doug Gray >> >> >> >> >>> >>> Bobby, >>> >>> My plane was essentially self grounded till I could fix the high CHT >>> problem. I tightened up the cowl, sealed around the front intake ramps, put >>> a door across the back of my oil cooler (cooler temps around 160-170) and >>> absolutely no joy. Finally I added louvers I got from Alex De Dominicis in >>> Texas. I think you can reach him through his website at >>> http://www.RVtraining.com After this my plane was flying again. My CHT >>> will still climb to near 450 on climb out sometimes but will be under 400 >>> for cruise. They do make a difference. I cannot say this is the cure all >>> as Kevin mentioned there is a reason mine runs hot and so many others don't. >>> I just don't know what it is. >>> >>> My next step is to remove some more of the lower cowling around the exhaust >>> area as mine is particularly smaller since my scoop portion actually hangs >>> back over the airframe about 2 inches. I am going to remove all of that >>> this week before I fly this coming weekend. If you haven't done that, it >>> would be advisable. I am still trying to get mine down quite a bit more. >>> >>> My plane is an RV-6 with 0-360A1A and constant speed prop. I am flying >>> without wheel pants or leg fairings. >>> Tim >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- >>>> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton >>>> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 8:47 AM >>>> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >>>> Subject: Re: RV-List: CHT vents >>>> >>>> >>>> Bobby Hester wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ron, I saw an old post about your cowl louvers. Are they what made the >>>>> big differance? My CHT's are getting up to 455 by about 2500 ft on climb >>>>> out and then I level off til they come down to about 430 then I climb >>>>> some more. At cruise I am seeing 410-420. I would really like to see >>>>> them more like 350 at cruise. This is at about 87 degree F OAT on the >>>>> ground. Any other suggestions? Were did you get you louvers? >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Bobby - If I understand properly, you have a 180 hp engine. There are >>>> many, many RV-7/7As flying with this engine without CHT problems. While >>>> adding cowl louvers might bring your CHTs down, I fear that you would >>>> simply be curing the symptom, without really fixing the basic problem. >>>> This could lead to greater grief down the road, if the basic problem is >>>> significant. For example, some people have high CHTs due to a too lean >>>> mixture, caused by the wrong carb. If this were the problem, it would be >>>> far better to find it and fix it now. >>>> >>>> Kevin Horton >>>> Ottawa, Canada >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Walter" <dale1rv6(at)comcast.net>
Subject: CHT vents
Date: May 30, 2007
The point about rpm rise at shut down has no bearing on the mixture at power settings well above idle. Has the accuracy of the CHT gauge been verified twice? I noticed on your website the sealing around the inlets. Can you rig up a couple tape strips to determine if that seal is fluttering during flight? The tape needs to be placed so that engine rock during startup and shutdown will not tear it loose. Good luck, Dale _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Huft Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:04 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: CHT vents Bobby, have you checked the mag timing? Not using LASAR are you? The other common problem is too lean a mixture...do you have the usual 50 rpm rise when you pull the mixture to idle cutoff when shutting down? The baffles that come with the engine, that go in between the cylinders often have some pretty big holes where they go up against the case. I think Kevin is right, the basic design of the cowl has worked on many similar engines...I wouldn't cut it up unless I had tried every other possibility. Good luck, John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PGLong(at)aol.com
Date: May 30, 2007
Subject: CHT Vents
Bobby, I had kind of a reverse problem, but also may work for you. My RV-4 couldn't warm the oil up enough. I closed by about 40-5-%, the lower cowling area where the exhaust and air exit from cooling the engine. This brought up my oil temps to normal. I just put a baffle plate of sorts to throttle the air leaving. I would think that if you opened your up to allow more air to exit, you would also get more air in and hence do more cooling. Wish you the best. Pat Long PGLong(at)aol.com N120PL RV 4 Bay City, Michigan 3CM ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: cylinder casting flash
Date: May 30, 2007
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
http://vincesrocket.com/Engine%20and%20Prop.htm for photos and info on removing casting excess flashing. http://www.vincesrocket.com/Additions%20after%2010-27-04.htm louver installation. I saw a 40 deg drop in CHTs. My CHTs rarely exceeds 360F in cruise and almost never hits 400F, even in a climb. The best tailwheel available for your RV or Rocket... see below. Cool vinyl graphics available too. Vince Frazier Screaming Eagle Graphics and Accessories, LLC 3965 Caborn Road Mount Vernon, IN 47620 812-464-1839 http://vincesrocket.com/products.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Need Master Cylinder Spring Info
Date: May 30, 2007
From: "Snow, Daniel A." <Daniel.Snow(at)wancdf.com>
My brakes are sticking and I would like to install return springs on the master cylinders. Has anyone added springs, and if so, can you provide details? Thanks, Daniel Snow RV-9A, 34 Flight Test hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 2007
From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Insurance Limitations (work around but takes effort)
Subject: RV-List: Fw: Insurance Limitations Yes most will not do first flight or Phase I. However IF you participate in the EAA builder advisory program and EAA flight adviser programs (both two and different things) and get TYPE training, they will wave that restrictions, but you must jump through hoops. I have 1,200 RV hours and 15,000 total, built a RV before and they still want me to do this for first flight coverage on my new RV. If you just show up and say no RV time, zero hours on airframe, they will say OK, take your chance for the first 40 hours than call us basically. If you go in with a certificate in RV transition training and approval from the EAA advisers you can get first flight/Phase I coverage from some companies. Frankly it is all a good idea insurance or not. If the premiums are high enough you can get insurance for a student pilot, a brick and cardboard wings with a jump from a bridge. I'm not an insurance company fan, but there is some logic to their madness, not paying out claims to people that prang it in early in their flight test. George ATP/CFI-II-ME, RV-7 --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 2007
From: Bruce Swayze <swayze(at)europa.com>
Subject: Elevator tips - how to finish?
Fellow builders, I decided to work on the fiberglass tips on my empennage while waiting on my wing kit. The newer RV-7 elevators have lead counterweights that stick out, rather than lie flush inside the counterbalance arm. The fiberglass tip covers the sides of the lead counterweight nicely, but the forward end is exposed and it shows. The tip doesn't cover it. I'm wondering how to cover it. How are you guys doing it? I've looked at a lot of web sites, but I haven't found anybody yet that details how they did this. I'm looking for some details and/or pictures. It's very tempting to just slather on some super-fill or some Evercoat Rage or whatever, and sand it down smooth and contour it. But I'm wondering how well these materials stick to lead? Has anybody researched this? And what about avoiding cracks developing over time? It seems to me there should be at least one layer of bid fiberglass over the lead, bonded to the fiberglass tip. Has anyone done this? Any suggestions or pictures? Thanks! Bruce Swayze RV-7A Empennage finished Waiting on Wing Kit -- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Need Master Cylinder Spring Info
Date: May 30, 2007
From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com>
I'm not flying yet, but decided to add 'helper' springs while I have better access (top fwd skin not yet riveted). I went to the aviation aisle of my hardware store and found springs that were 3/8" ID and 3" long. 3.5" long would be better, but that was all they had. I stretched the springs a bit to get more 'help' at the end of the stroke. Another approach would be to either add washers, or a short piece of tubing to compress the spring when the shaft is extended. The ends of the springs had to be bent away a bit because they dragged on the shaft, but once that was done, they slide easily. I put a washer down first, then slid on the spring. I was going to put a washer at the top as well, but it interfered with the mount. I wish I had thought of doing this before the rudder pedals were in the airplane, and I don't envy you having to do it on a finished airplane. Dennis Glaeser RV-7A - starting to paint, waiting for my engine ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- My brakes are sticking and I would like to install return springs on the master cylinders. Has anyone added springs, and if so, can you provide details? Thanks, Daniel Snow RV-9A, 34 Flight Test hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: May 30, 2007
Subject: Re: Need Master Cylinder Spring Info
In a message dated 5/30/2007 10:49:58 AM Central Daylight Time, Daniel.Snow(at)wancdf.com writes: Has anyone added springs, and if so, can you provide details? >>> Here's what I did: _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=17458_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=17458) ...and by the way- I just added the above log entry to my Expercraft website after not even looking at it in over a year, and even with a new format was very easy- Riggen is a genius and I highly recommend his service! (unsolicited, uncompensated and unconditional support for Expercraft- great stuff- Thanks again Rob!) >From The PossumWorks in TN Mark ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 2007
From: Garry LeGare <garry(at)versadek.com>
Subject: Major Price reduction
My RV 6 is still available. It is listed online at the Trade a Plane website for $95,000. Besides what is listed in the ad there are a bunch of extras such as: spare prop governor ( 50 hrs TT) new complete ElectoAir electronic ignition systems with new wiring harness for the plugs Tail wheel used fuel pump and magneto Complete Lycoming service instructions, service manuals, parts manuals and overhaul manual. plus much more. The aircraft comes with a complete annual at time of sale and I'm willing to do the annual inspections for the next 5 years you just supply parts. Also I will spend 2 or 3 days with you going over the systems so that you are comfortable with them, before first flight. Also a complete flight check out is offered. I will be leaving for our summer home around June 15th so now is the time to make yourself the owner of a special RV6. The first person with $75,000. will take it away. Take care Garry "Casper" Legare (805) 438-3451 garry(at)versadek.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 2007
Subject: Need Master Cylinder Spring Info
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Dennis, Use a "set collar" on the top to provide the tension you want. I did it to my brake cyl on both sides. check out my web site for the details. If you can not find it there, I can e-mail you the pix I have on how I did it. You should use a flanged oillite bushing on the bottom so the spring rides on it rather than the topof the cyl. www.expercraft.com/jimn Jim Nelson RV9-A N15JN 95% done and 50% to go ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 2007
From: PJ Seipel <seipel(at)seznam.cz>
Subject: Re: Need Master Cylinder Spring Info
I used the following from McMaster Carr (www.mcmaster.com): 1 6389K625 Nylon Bearing Flanged, for 3/8" Shaft Dia, 1/2" Od, 3/8" Length, Packs of 5 $1.71 1 9657K115 Steel Compression Spring Znc-Pltd Spring-Tempered, 3" L, 1/2" Od, .047" Dia, Packs of 12 $5.29 4 9946K13 Aluminum Set Screw Shaft Collar 3/8" Bore, 3/4" Outside Diameter, 3/8" Width $1.82 for a total cost of about $19 after shipping. Picture is attached. Not flying yet, so I don't know how well it works. PJ Seipel RV-10 #40032 Snow wrote: > > My brakes are sticking and I would like to install return springs on the > master cylinders. Has anyone added springs, and if so, can you provide > details? > > Thanks, > > Daniel Snow > RV-9A, 34 Flight Test hours > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: May 30, 2007
Subject: Re: Elevator tips - how to finish?
In a message dated 5/30/2007 3:22:57 PM Central Daylight Time, swayze(at)europa.com writes: How are you guys doing it? >>> I scored up the lead pretty well before installing the tips, then packed epoxy/flox mixture in around the weight forcing the mixture back some around the edges between the tip and weight, hoping this will stabilize it. Then I laid a patch of fine (6-8 oz.?) fiberglass cloth around the whole thing & smoothed/finished. Looks good so far (no paint yet) but not saying this is best method either. Kinda think the old style may have been an improvement... Mark ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Garry" <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Need Master Cylinder Spring Info
Date: May 30, 2007
I agree with Jim Nelson's post. My brakes were dragging too, and Jim fixed me up with the Oillite bushings and set collars. The springs can be found at most major hardware stores. Works great! Check out Jim's website. Garry Stout RV-7A Tampa Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: "James H Nelson" <rv9jim(at)juno.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 4:56 PM Subject: RV-List: Need Master Cylinder Spring Info > > Dennis, > Use a "set collar" on the top to provide the tension you want. I > did it to my brake cyl on both sides. check out my web site for the > details. If you can not find it there, I can e-mail you the pix I have > on how I did it. You should use a flanged oillite bushing on the bottom > so the spring rides on it rather than the topof the cyl. > > www.expercraft.com/jimn > > Jim Nelson > RV9-A > N15JN > > 95% done and 50% to go > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4WGH(at)aol.com
Date: May 30, 2007
Subject: GRT EIS 4000 and SKYSPORTS CAPACITANCE FUEL PROBES
Have any of you used the above combination? If so, were there interface problems? If so, how did you calibrate them? Looks like it will have to be done with the tanks removed from the wing. Regards, Wally Hunt Rockford, IL RV-4 Finishing Kit ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bolton" <timbolton(at)therv7.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator tips - how to finish?
Date: May 30, 2007
My brother in Atlanta just finished his tips. You may want to visit his website for ideas. http://www.n713db.com/ I've still got to do my tips so let us know what you decide. Tim Bolton Charlotte, NC www.TheRV7.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Swayze" <swayze(at)europa.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 4:17 PM Subject: RV-List: Elevator tips - how to finish? Fellow builders, I decided to work on the fiberglass tips on my empennage while waiting on my wing kit. The newer RV-7 elevators have lead counterweights that stick out, rather than lie flush inside the counterbalance arm. The fiberglass tip covers the sides of the lead counterweight nicely, but the forward end is exposed and it shows. The tip doesn't cover it. I'm wondering how to cover it. How are you guys doing it? I've looked at a lot of web sites, but I haven't found anybody yet that details how they did this. I'm looking for some details and/or pictures. It's very tempting to just slather on some super-fill or some Evercoat Rage or whatever, and sand it down smooth and contour it. But I'm wondering how well these materials stick to lead? Has anybody researched this? And what about avoiding cracks developing over time? It seems to me there should be at least one layer of bid fiberglass over the lead, bonded to the fiberglass tip. Has anyone done this? Any suggestions or pictures? Thanks! Bruce Swayze RV-7A Empennage finished Waiting on Wing Kit -- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 2007
From: Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com>
Subject: Re: GRT EIS 4000 and SKYSPORTS CAPACITANCE FUEL PROBES
Hey Wally... There are two different skysports fuel systems and only one of them works with the EIS... I think its the one that uses the 0-5 volt output, but dont quote me... See here: http://airstuff.com/eshop/10Browse.asp Call Sandy at GRT and she will tell you which one you need and how to calibrate it... 616-245-7700 -Bill RV4WGH(at)aol.com wrote: > Have any of you used the above combination? > > If so, were there interface problems? > > If so, how did you calibrate them? Looks like it will have to be done > with the tanks removed from the wing. > > Regards, > > Wally Hunt > Rockford, IL > RV-4 Finishing Kit > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See what's free at AOL.com > <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503>. > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 2007
From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: CHT vents
I just double checked the timing on my Lightspeed Ign.. The timing was just slightly off. I adjusted it and it is perfect now. Test flight did not show any change in my CHT's. What I did find out is that I can tell if the timing is correct by looking at the RPM drop on the Electronic Ign. Before makeing the adjustment I had about a drop of about 20 RPM. The first adjustment I made was not right and I got about a 200 RPM drop. I found my mistake and made the correct adjustment and now I only have a 10 RPM drop. When checking the timing on the lightspeed, with a automotive type timing light, you disconnect the Manifold pressure hose to retard the timing, The engine run quite a bit rougher like that, which I beleive is how it would be running with two mags. When the line is connected back it advances the timing and runs much smoother, all this at about 850 RPM. This is some good info to find out. Now I've got to get to work on those wheel pants and leg farings. Superior XP-0360 65hrs and counting :-) Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm Bobby Hester wrote: > My engine is a Superior XP-0360 > There is no casting flashing on the cylinders > I added a washer at the rear screw/bolt on the #3 cylinder to help > cool that cylinder. > I've sealed all holes that I can find. > Baffling seems to be sealing farely well. > The cowl exit is cut off even, all the way across. > >Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY >Visit my RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm > > > Doug Gray wrote: > >> >>There has been discussion about two issues that may be a factor for you, >>first was casting flash obstructing airflow and the second was adding >>some spacers (washers only) between baffles and cylinders at the >>mounting bolts. >> >>Sorry I cannot be more specific I not familiar with the specifics, >>others may be able to add detail. >> >>Doug Gray >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>>Bobby, >>> >>>My plane was essentially self grounded till I could fix the high CHT >>>problem. I tightened up the cowl, sealed around the front intake ramps, put >>>a door across the back of my oil cooler (cooler temps around 160-170) and >>>absolutely no joy. Finally I added louvers I got from Alex De Dominicis in >>>Texas. I think you can reach him through his website at >>>http://www.RVtraining.com After this my plane was flying again. My CHT >>>will still climb to near 450 on climb out sometimes but will be under 400 >>>for cruise. They do make a difference. I cannot say this is the cure all >>>as Kevin mentioned there is a reason mine runs hot and so many others don't. >>>I just don't know what it is. >>> >>>My next step is to remove some more of the lower cowling around the exhaust >>>area as mine is particularly smaller since my scoop portion actually hangs >>>back over the airframe about 2 inches. I am going to remove all of that >>>this week before I fly this coming weekend. If you haven't done that, it >>>would be advisable. I am still trying to get mine down quite a bit more. >>> >>>My plane is an RV-6 with 0-360A1A and constant speed prop. I am flying >>>without wheel pants or leg fairings. >>>Tim >>> >>> >>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- >>>>server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton >>>>Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 8:47 AM >>>>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >>>>Subject: Re: RV-List: CHT vents >>>> >>>> >>>>Bobby Hester wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Ron, I saw an old post about your cowl louvers. Are they what made the >>>>>big differance? My CHT's are getting up to 455 by about 2500 ft on climb >>>>>out and then I level off til they come down to about 430 then I climb >>>>>some more. At cruise I am seeing 410-420. I would really like to see >>>>>them more like 350 at cruise. This is at about 87 degree F OAT on the >>>>>ground. Any other suggestions? Were did you get you louvers? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>Bobby - If I understand properly, you have a 180 hp engine. There are >>>>many, many RV-7/7As flying with this engine without CHT problems. While >>>>adding cowl louvers might bring your CHTs down, I fear that you would >>>>simply be curing the symptom, without really fixing the basic problem. >>>>This could lead to greater grief down the road, if the basic problem is >>>>significant. For example, some people have high CHTs due to a too lean >>>>mixture, caused by the wrong carb. If this were the problem, it would be >>>>far better to find it and fix it now. >>>> >>>>Kevin Horton >>>>Ottawa, Canada >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 2007
From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Nose gear lube
I took it apart cleaned it up and lubed it real good, no more herkie jerkies, nice and smooth :-) Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm Bobby Hester wrote: > > My swiveling nose wheel has gotten jerky. Will just squirting a few > shots of grease in the zert fitting take care of this or do I need to > take it all apart clean, grease and reassemble? 65 hrs. on it. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 2007
From: Garry LeGare <garry(at)versadek.com>
Subject: Re: Major Price reduction
The web link is www.trade-a-plane.com/unprotected/specs/52371.html Greg Papendick wrote: >Garry, > >I could not find your RV6 on the Trada a Plane website. Could you send >a spec sheet and pictures? > >Regards, >Greg > >Garry LeGare wrote on 5/30/2007, 4:41 PM: > > > > > My RV 6 is still available. It is listed online at the Trade a Plane > > website for $95,000. > > Besides what is listed in the ad there are a bunch of extras such as: > > spare prop governor ( 50 hrs TT) > > new complete ElectoAir electronic ignition systems with new wiring > > harness for the plugs > > Tail wheel > > used fuel pump and magneto > > Complete Lycoming service instructions, service manuals, parts manuals > > and overhaul manual. > > plus much more. > > The aircraft comes with a complete annual at time of sale and I'm > > willing to do the annual inspections for the next 5 years you just > > supply parts. > > Also I will spend 2 or 3 days with you going over the systems so that > > you are comfortable with them, before first flight. > > Also a complete flight check out is offered. > > I will be leaving for our summer home around June 15th so now is the > > time to make yourself the owner of a special RV6. The first person with > > $75,000. will take it away. > > Take care > > Garry "Casper" Legare (805) 438-3451 > > garry(at)versadek.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator tips - how to finish?
Date: May 31, 2007
So Tim, have you placed your order for your QB yet? Dale Ensing ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Bolton" <timbolton(at)therv7.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 10:16 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator tips - how to finish? > > My brother in Atlanta just finished his tips. You may want to visit his > website for ideas. http://www.n713db.com/ I've still got to do my tips so > let us know what you decide. > > Tim Bolton > Charlotte, NC > www.TheRV7.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bruce Swayze" <swayze(at)europa.com> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 4:17 PM > Subject: RV-List: Elevator tips - how to finish? > > > Fellow builders, > > I decided to work on the fiberglass tips on my empennage while > waiting on my wing kit. The newer RV-7 elevators have lead > counterweights that stick out, rather than lie flush inside the > counterbalance arm. The fiberglass tip covers the sides of the lead > counterweight nicely, but the forward end is exposed and it shows. > The tip doesn't cover it. I'm wondering how to cover it. How are you > guys doing it? I've looked at a lot of web sites, but I haven't > found anybody yet that details how they did this. I'm looking for > some details and/or pictures. > > It's very tempting to just slather on some super-fill or some > Evercoat Rage or whatever, and sand it down smooth and contour > it. But I'm wondering how well these materials stick to lead? Has > anybody researched this? And what about avoiding cracks developing > over time? It seems to me there should be at least one layer of bid > fiberglass over the lead, bonded to the fiberglass tip. Has anyone > done this? Any suggestions or pictures? > > Thanks! > > Bruce Swayze > RV-7A Empennage finished > Waiting on Wing Kit > > > -- > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bolton" <timbolton(at)therv7.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator tips - how to finish?
Date: May 31, 2007
Dale, Not yet. I'm building a new home in Denver, NC and hope to be moved in by Sept-Oct. I'll order the QB then and have it delivered to the new home. I wont have time to work on it until after I move in. I'll keep you updated. Tim Bolton Charlotte, NC www.TheRV7.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 7:46 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator tips - how to finish? So Tim, have you placed your order for your QB yet? Dale Ensing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 01, 2007
Subject: Re: RV-7 engine/prop options
I wrote this some time ago and it never was posted. Here it is now for what its worth! Some engine building thoughts: I agree with Stein here -- go get an overhaul manual (and the parts catalog) and do it yourself. Send the parts out and get everything yellow tagged, install new parts where recommended, and save all the tags and receipts in a folder. After all, a Lycoming is a just a 4 cylinder version of a Briggs & Stratton. Well, it turns out that it is not quite that simple, but still there is usually only one way that the parts will fit. In a way its like building the rest of the airplane. There is help available on this list or on the Matronics engine list. Just take your time at each step and get it right. If there is any doubt, stop and get advice. The manuals are pretty thorough. One exception is that there are some bolt torques that are not called out that should be. I'm thinking here of the bolts that hold the idler shafts to the case. Using the recommended torque for that size bolt will strip the threads in the case. (How do I know that?) The ONLY way you are going to know what is in your engine is to put it together yourself. You will find that you will have to make some compromises -- nothing is perfect. For example, I try my best to make sure the pieces in my engine are matched for balance, but they never come out exact. (I haven't yet reached the point of being able to balance connecting rods, so I must choose from what is available. I don't trust the local hot rod shops to appreciate the stresses in a 2700 RPM Lyc. Or to fully appreciate the fact that lives could be at stake if one should fail. These rods are harder to balance because they do not have extra weight at each end for balancing purposes like auto engine rods.) Here is a case where Lycoming has a pretty wide window, but the engine will run with less vibration if the rods (and pistons) are matched. In my case, I put the closest pair in the rear of the engine with hopes that balancing the prop will correct the front pair. If they are too far apart, I get more rods and choose a closer pair. This gets expensive. Economics forces some compromises. There is no way around it. There is no perfect engine. The clearances are often not exactly where you'd like them to be. There is usually a pretty wide tolerance band, but you don't want to be too close to either end of it. I wonder if all builders check the dry lifter clearance. I had to order new pushrods to get all of them in tolerance. Once you have decided that its good enough, you have to live with it. Believe me, you will care more about how well your engine is put together than anyone else who might put it together for you. Just because someone builds airboat engines doesn't mean they don't know what they're doing. I'm sure there are some good ones out there. I think Stein was speaking in terms of probability. On the other hand just because someone has a fancy shop that builds only aircraft engines doesn't mean that they always do it right either, or that they are as particular as they ought to be. They run into compromising choices that they have to make every day. Hopefully, their experience has taught them how to make those choices. Its a matter of knowing and doing what is right -- its a matter of integrity. After a prop strike I personally disassembled my engine (which was put together by a reputable shop) and found a few things that really disappointed me. Here are some examples: 1. Rod nuts were not a matched set. Some looked more oil stained than others. Some were different styles than the several sets that I have bought. I'm not sure if they were for an IO-360, or not. They probably were not new when the engine was overhauled. This makes me wonder about the stretch type rod bolts -- very critical parts in a 200 HP IO-360. These must be replaced at overhaul. 2. Genuine silk thread was not used to seal the case halves. Cotton (or synthetic) thread was used and it fell apart when the case was separated. I could pick up a piece of the thread and pull it apart with my fingers. If it were silk, I couldn't do that. The pattern it left showed that part of it was not on the surface of the case, but had fallen inside the engine during assembly. The engine had a pesky oil leak in that area -- this could well have been the cause. 3. The engine always vibrated more than I thought it should. Dynamically balancing the prop didn't help. This could have been due to rod weight mismatch or it could have been the prop -- no way to tell now. When I installed the engine I assembled, the vibration was noticeably better, but it is not the same prop. I took out a counterweighted IO-360 engine (-C1E6) and installed one without the counter weights (-A1A). I am now assembling the original counterweighted engine with a new crank. (Read ahead and this will make more sense.) 4. Would you believe the engine had a left turning crank in it? Yes, it did. I have mentioned this on this list before. This puts the oil holes in a less than optimum position for oiling the rod bearings when it is used in a normal turning engine. In fact, it puts them in about the worst location. Some say this will work OK, some say it will eat up the rod bearings. I only had about 160 hours on the engine and the bearings didn't look too bad, but who knows? I couldn't live with myself if I put it back it my own plane, let alone someone else's. The FAA is looking in to this one. If you have never done this kind of work before, maybe you would be better off having someone else do it for you. Experience is a good teacher, but it can be an expensive way to learn things! I can't wholeheartedly suggest that everyone should build their own engine. It is really stressful. There is a lot to worry about -- at least it causes me a lot of worry. But after I have it done, I have pretty high confidence that it is going to serve me well. I don't have a lot of experience with aircraft engines. Most of my engine building experience was in the circle track racing business. And that was only building engines for my own car. If I didn't have that experience, I don't know if I would have the confidence to attempt an engine for my airplane. I built my race engines because I couldn't afford to buy as good of engine as I could build, so it made economic sense at the time. BTW this was quite some time ago! Well, there's some of my thoughts on engine assembly. I'm sure not everyone will agree with what I've written, so I'll go look for my old Nomex underwear! Best regards, Dan Hopper RV-7A In a message dated 4/24/2007 12:26:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, stein(at)steinair.com writes: Why not do it yourself? It's not difficult or hard, nor requires many special tools. Buy the overhaul manual, buy the parts and "get 'er done"! One thing I would stay away from is several of the airboat builders - don't know specifically names, but I've seen plenty of their "handiwork" and have not yet been overly impressed. One such engine just cost one of my employees BIG TIME in $$'s and pain in the rear. Engine was "new" by an airboat builder. I have the remains on the floor of my shop. Not just substandard, but downright scary (mismatched rods, butchered crank, mismatched cyliners, mismatched pistons, the list goes on and on). ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic2(at)starband.net>
Subject: Re: RV-7 engine/prop options
Date: Jun 01, 2007
Theres a page on my web site with lots of pics & details of how to build your own Lycoming. Be clean & be careful & should be no problem http://brian76.mystarband.net/SuperiorTextPics.htm brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hopperdhh(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 5:28 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-7 engine/prop options I wrote this some time ago and it never was posted. Here it is now for what its worth! Some engine building thoughts: I agree with Stein here -- go get an overhaul manual (and the parts catalog) and do it yourself. Send the parts out and get everything yellow tagged, install new parts where recommended, and save all the tags and receipts in a folder. After all, a Lycoming is a just a 4 cylinder version of a Briggs & Stratton. Well, it turns out that it is not quite that simple, but still there is usually only one way that the parts will fit. In a way its like building the rest of the airplane. There is help available on this list or on the Matronics engine list. Just take your time at each step and get it right. If there is any doubt, stop and get advice. The manuals are pretty thorough. One exception is that there are some bolt torques that are not called out that should be. I'm thinking here of the bolts that hold the idler shafts to the case. Using the recommended torque for that size bolt will strip the threads in the case. (How do I know that?) The ONLY way you are going to know what is in your engine is to put it together yourself. You will find that you will have to make some compromises -- nothing is perfect. For example, I try my best to make sure the pieces in my engine are matched for balance, but they never come out exact. (I haven't yet reached the point of being able to balance connecting rods, so I must choose from what is available. I don't trust the local hot rod shops to appreciate the stresses in a 2700 RPM Lyc. Or to fully appreciate the fact that lives could be at stake if one should fail. These rods are harder to balance because they do not have extra weight at each end for balancing purposes like auto engine rods.) Here is a case where Lycoming has a pretty wide window, but the engine will run with less vibration if the rods (and pistons) are matched. In my case, I put the closest pair in the rear of the engine with hopes that balancing the prop will correct the front pair. If they are too far apart, I get more rods and choose a closer pair. This gets expensive. Economics forces some compromises. There is no way around it. There is no perfect engine. The clearances are often not exactly where you'd like them to be. There is usually a pretty wide tolerance band, but you don't want to be too close to either end of it. I wonder if all builders check the dry lifter clearance. I had to order new pushrods to get all of them in tolerance. Once you have decided that its good enough, you have to live with it. Believe me, you will care more about how well your engine is put together than anyone else who might put it together for you. Just because someone builds airboat engines doesn't mean they don't know what they're doing. I'm sure there are some good ones out there. I think Stein was speaking in terms of probability. On the other hand just because someone has a fancy shop that builds only aircraft engines doesn't mean that they always do it right either, or that they are as particular as they ought to be. They run into compromising choices that they have to make every day. Hopefully, their experience has taught them how to make those choices. Its a matter of knowing and doing what is right -- its a matter of integrity. After a prop strike I personally disassembled my engine (which was put together by a reputable shop) and found a few things that really disappointed me. Here are some examples: 1. Rod nuts were not a matched set. Some looked more oil stained than others. Some were different styles than the several sets that I have bought. I'm not sure if they were for an IO-360, or not. They probably were not new when the engine was overhauled. This makes me wonder about the stretch type rod bolts -- very critical parts in a 200 HP IO-360. These must be replaced at overhaul. 2. Genuine silk thread was not used to seal the case halves. Cotton (or synthetic) thread was used and it fell apart when the case was separated. I could pick up a piece of the thread and pull it apart with my fingers. If it were silk, I couldn't do that. The pattern it left showed that part of it was not on the surface of the case, but had fallen inside the engine during assembly. The engine had a pesky oil leak in that area -- this could well have been the cause. 3. The engine always vibrated more than I thought it should. Dynamically balancing the prop didn't help. This could have been due to rod weight mismatch or it could have been the prop -- no way to tell now. When I installed the engine I assembled, the vibration was noticeably better, but it is not the same prop. I took out a counterweighted IO-360 engine (-C1E6) and installed one without the counter weights (-A1A). I am now assembling the original counterweighted engine with a new crank. (Read ahead and this will make more sense.) 4. Would you believe the engine had a left turning crank in it? Yes, it did. I have mentioned this on this list before. This puts the oil holes in a less than optimum position for oiling the rod bearings when it is used in a normal turning engine. In fact, it puts them in about the worst location. Some say this will work OK, some say it will eat up the rod bearings. I only had about 160 hours on the engine and the bearings didn't look too bad, but who knows? I couldn't live with myself if I put it back it my own plane, let alone someone else's. The FAA is looking in to this one. If you have never done this kind of work before, maybe you would be better off having someone else do it for you. Experience is a good teacher, but it can be an expensive way to learn things! I can't wholeheartedly suggest that everyone should build their own engine. It is really stressful. There is a lot to worry about -- at least it causes me a lot of worry. But after I have it done, I have pretty high confidence that it is going to serve me well. I don't have a lot of experience with aircraft engines. Most of my engine building experience was in the circle track racing business. And that was only building engines for my own car. If I didn't have that experience, I don't know if I would have the confidence to attempt an engine for my airplane. I built my race engines because I couldn't afford to buy as good of engine as I could build, so it made economic sense at the time. BTW this was quite some time ago! Well, there's some of my thoughts on engine assembly. I'm sure not everyone will agree with what I've written, so I'll go look for my old Nomex underwear! Best regards, Dan Hopper RV-7A In a message dated 4/24/2007 12:26:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, stein(at)steinair.com writes: Why not do it yourself? It's not difficult or hard, nor requires many special tools. Buy the overhaul manual, buy the parts and "get 'er done"! One thing I would stay away from is several of the airboat builders - don't know specifically names, but I've seen plenty of their "handiwork" and have not yet been overly impressed. One such engine just cost one of my employees BIG TIME in $$'s and pain in the rear. Engine was "new" by an airboat builder. I have the remains on the floor of my shop. Not just substandard, but downright scary (mismatched rods, butchered crank, mismatched cyliners, mismatched pistons, the list goes on and on). _____ See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> . 4:51 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vince-Himsl" <vhimsl(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Spinner to cowl clearance - How close is too close
Date: Jun 01, 2007
Problem: My spinner to cowl gap / clearance is 1/16 to 3/16 inches. The plans say it should be 3/16" to 1/4" (Rv8) Questions: How close is too close? Has anybody had spinner experiences that 'rubbed' them the wrong way? Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to avoid doing that? Thanks! Vince H. Sooooo tired of the cowl. RV8 - VSB Moscow, ID USA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Spinner to cowl clearance - How close is too close
Date: Jun 01, 2007
The thing to consider is that you'll want to get the cowl on and off without dinging the paint on the spinner or the cowl. Also, remember that the baffle seal material on the air inlets for cooling air and the carb (if you have one) makes removing and replacing the lower cowl easier if you can slide the cowl forward slightly. Personally, I'd trim the cowl so the top edge of the bottom cowl has 1/4" clearance. The top cowl *should* lift right off, so you can use less clearance there if it works out that way. KB ----- Original Message ----- From: Vince-Himsl To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 9:08 PM Subject: RV-List: Spinner to cowl clearance - How close is too close Problem: My spinner to cowl gap / clearance is 1/16 to 3/16 inches. The plans say it should be 3/16" to 1/4" (Rv8) Questions: How close is too close? Has anybody had spinner experiences that 'rubbed' them the wrong way? Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to avoid doing that? Thanks! Vince H. Sooooo tired of the cowl. RV8 - VSB Moscow, ID USA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dick martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com>
Subject: Re: CHT vents
Date: Jun 01, 2007
Tim, 8 years ago when I finished my RV8, I encountered similar problems with temps. After trying a lot of different fixes, it was suggested that my electronic ignition was set to far advanced. I reset the ignition timing (with more care and also reread the instructions) and have had no problems since. Also loose fitting of engine baffles etc will also cause your problems. Good luck. Dick Martin RV8 N233M the fast one ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 8:18 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: CHT vents > > Bobby, > > My plane was essentially self grounded till I could fix the high CHT > problem. I tightened up the cowl, sealed around the front intake ramps, > put > a door across the back of my oil cooler (cooler temps around 160-170) and > absolutely no joy. Finally I added louvers I got from Alex De Dominicis > in > Texas. I think you can reach him through his website at > http://www.RVtraining.com After this my plane was flying again. My CHT > will still climb to near 450 on climb out sometimes but will be under 400 > for cruise. They do make a difference. I cannot say this is the cure all > as Kevin mentioned there is a reason mine runs hot and so many others > don't. > I just don't know what it is. > > My next step is to remove some more of the lower cowling around the > exhaust > area as mine is particularly smaller since my scoop portion actually hangs > back over the airframe about 2 inches. I am going to remove all of that > this week before I fly this coming weekend. If you haven't done that, it > would be advisable. I am still trying to get mine down quite a bit more. > > My plane is an RV-6 with 0-360A1A and constant speed prop. I am flying > without wheel pants or leg fairings. > Tim > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- >> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton >> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 8:47 AM >> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV-List: CHT vents >> >> >> Bobby Hester wrote: >> >> > >> > Ron, I saw an old post about your cowl louvers. Are they what made the >> > big differance? My CHT's are getting up to 455 by about 2500 ft on >> > climb >> > out and then I level off til they come down to about 430 then I climb >> > some more. At cruise I am seeing 410-420. I would really like to see >> > them more like 350 at cruise. This is at about 87 degree F OAT on the >> > ground. Any other suggestions? Were did you get you louvers? >> > >> >> Bobby - If I understand properly, you have a 180 hp engine. There are >> many, many RV-7/7As flying with this engine without CHT problems. While >> adding cowl louvers might bring your CHTs down, I fear that you would >> simply be curing the symptom, without really fixing the basic problem. >> This could lead to greater grief down the road, if the basic problem is >> significant. For example, some people have high CHTs due to a too lean >> mixture, caused by the wrong carb. If this were the problem, it would be >> far better to find it and fix it now. >> >> Kevin Horton >> Ottawa, Canada >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2007
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: Re: Spinner to cowl clearance - How close is too close
I would think 1/16" is too close. It will rub at start/shutdown. I have 3/16" I think and I'm glad it's not any less. I try to use towels between the spinner/cowl when removing/installing the cowl. -- Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com On 6/1/07, Vince-Himsl wrote: > > Problem: > > My spinner to cowl gap / clearance is 1/16 to 3/16 inches. The plans say > it should be 3/16" to 1/4" (Rv8) > > > Questions: > > How close is too close? Has anybody had spinner experiences that 'rubbed' > them the wrong way? Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to avoid > doing that? > > > Thanks! > > > Vince H. > > Sooooo tired of the cowl. > > RV8 ' VSB Moscow, ID USA > > * > =========== =========== =========== > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dick martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com>
Subject: Re: Spinner to cowl clearance - How close is too close
Date: Jun 01, 2007
Vince, I fit mine 1/8" minimum-3/16"maximum. A close fit will improve airspeed slightly and looks better. On a new airplane, fit the engine approx. 3/16" high because the engine will sag about that much in the first 100 hours. Dick Martin RV8 N233M 1500 hours ----- Original Message ----- From: Vince-Himsl To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 8:08 PM Subject: RV-List: Spinner to cowl clearance - How close is too close Problem: My spinner to cowl gap / clearance is 1/16 to 3/16 inches. The plans say it should be 3/16" to 1/4" (Rv8) Questions: How close is too close? Has anybody had spinner experiences that 'rubbed' them the wrong way? Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to avoid doing that? Thanks! Vince H. Sooooo tired of the cowl. RV8 - VSB Moscow, ID USA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2007
From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Spinner to cowl clearance - How close is too close
I set mine that high and after 65 hrs it is still at the same height, too high. I would set it flush with the top of the cowl. Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm dick martin wrote: > Vince, > I fit mine 1/8" minimum-3/16"maximum. A close fit will improve > airspeed slightly and looks better. On a new airplane, fit the engine > approx. 3/16" high because the engine will sag about that much in the > first 100 hours. > Dick Martin > RV8 N233M > 1500 hours > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Vince-Himsl <mailto:vhimsl(at)adelphia.net> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 8:08 PM > Subject: RV-List: Spinner to cowl clearance - How close is too close > > Problem: > > My spinner to cowl gap / clearance is 1/16 to 3/16 inches. The > plans say it should be 3/16" to 1/4" (Rv8) > > > > Questions: > > How close is too close? Has anybody had spinner experiences that > 'rubbed' them the wrong way? Does anyone have any suggestions as > to how to avoid doing that? > > > > Thanks! > > > > Vince H. > > Sooooo tired of the cowl. > > RV8 - VSB Moscow, ID USA > > >href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vince-Himsl" <vhimsl(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Spinner to cowl clearance - How close is too close
Date: Jun 01, 2007
Thanks All! I managed to eek out another 1/16=9D on the top so the spinner to cowl clearance is roughly 1/8=9D top to 3/16=9D bottom. Looks very cool (Catto 3 blade Prop) but I became worried about the interference mainly because the cowl is all done, hinges cemented in placeeverything. I even did some custom transition work where the cowl meets the fuselage. So I went panic mode when it began to look like I would have to rebuild the front of my cowl to get the required clearance as I wasn=99t about to try and remove the hinges and start over. I will try and eek out some more space further trimming the spinner but I am already at the backplate. Even with the tight clearance, I can remove the cowl without removing the spinner. Had some issues with excess baffle material and had to trim the FAB fabricated inlet on the lower cowl, but it does come off. The cowl is pretty tough too considering the number of times I threw it across the garage. =98=BA Again, Thanks for the help! Vince H. _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vince-Himsl Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 6:09 PM Subject: RV-List: Spinner to cowl clearance - How close is too close Problem: My spinner to cowl gap / clearance is 1/16 to 3/16 inches. The plans say it should be 3/16=9D to 1/4=9D (Rv8) Questions: How close is too close? Has anybody had spinner experiences that =98rubbed=99 them the wrong way? Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to avoid doing that? Thanks! Vince H. Sooooo tired of the cowl. RV8 =93 VSB Moscow, ID USA ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Eggenfelner FWF Probelm - Help!
From: "marcausman" <marc(at)verticalpower.com>
Date: Jun 02, 2007
John, the fuel pressure sensor is a bit if an oddball because you also need to connect the sensor wire to a resistor, then to a reference voltage pin on the EIS. Suggest reviewing the install diagram and double check. The reference voltage keeps the sensor accurate while voltage fluctuates. Also, if you haven't solved it by Monday, call Sandy at GRT and she has seen it all and is very helpful. Marc -------- Marc Ausman http://www.verticalpower.com RV-7 IO-390 Flying Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116039#116039 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Spinner to cowl clearance - How close is too close
Date: Jun 02, 2007
I use painters tape. Ron Lee I would think 1/16" is too close. It will rub at start/shutdown. I have 3/16" I think and I'm glad it's not any less. I try to use towels between the spinner/cowl when removing/installing the cowl. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Fit of Tip Up Canopy Seal
Date: Jun 02, 2007
I received the Tip Up seal from Peter Hunt, yesterday. Took it out and test fitted it to my RV-6A Tip Up today. The seal looks like it will work just fine for the Tip Up. Its has a "C" section squeezed down (metal C clamp inside the rubber) so it will firmly slip and clamp over the metal strip just below the perimeter of the canopy forward bulkhead - the one in front of the instrument panel. There is a round "bulb" seal on top of the "C" section which the closed canopy skin will seat on and depress slightly to form a seal. I am going to order 5 feet for my RV-6A - at $25 hard to beat. My current kluged up seal using two separate seals will eventually stop being effective. I still have the segment of seal I was sent if anyone else around here (Charlotte,NC) would like to test fit. However, if you do not have your Tip-Up canopy installed - a fitting probably won't tell you much. It appears that the only critical thing is that you located the metal lip correctly along the bulkhead - if too low, the forward canopy skin would probably not come down on the seal sufficient to compress it. If too high - well, you have other problems - like closing the canopy {:>) Here is Pete's description of his seal in case mine was unclear: My "C" shaped gasket just slides over the rear edge of this joggle. What makes my seal work is this. Running along the top of my "C" shaped seal is a tiny round flexible tube. The glareshield of the canopy extends forward of the plexiglass (outside) about 5 inches and this forward edge closes into/over the joggle. The tiny round tube running along the top of my "C" seal makes contact with the canopy under the front edge of the canopy when it is closed. Nothing is visible. Just remove Van's seal from on top of the joggle and slide mine onto the rear edge of the joggle. No adhesive needed Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Fw: Fit of Tip Up Canopy Seal II
Date: Jun 02, 2007
Forgot to include Pete's e mail in case any are interested in contacting him. It is: PeterHunt1(at)aol.com Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Anderson Cc: PeterHunt1(at)aol.com Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 3:38 PM Subject: Fit of Tip Up Canopy Seal I received the Tip Up seal from Peter Hunt, yesterday. Took it out and test fitted it to my RV-6A Tip Up today. The seal looks like it will work just fine for the Tip Up. Its has a "C" section squeezed down (metal C clamp inside the rubber) so it will firmly slip and clamp over the metal strip just below the perimeter of the canopy forward bulkhead - the one in front of the instrument panel. There is a round "bulb" seal on top of the "C" section which the closed canopy skin will seat on and depress slightly to form a seal. I am going to order 5 feet for my RV-6A - at $25 hard to beat. My current kluged up seal using two separate seals will eventually stop being effective. I still have the segment of seal I was sent if anyone else around here (Charlotte,NC) would like to test fit. However, if you do not have your Tip-Up canopy installed - a fitting probably won't tell you much. It appears that the only critical thing is that you located the metal lip correctly along the bulkhead - if too low, the forward canopy skin would probably not come down on the seal sufficient to compress it. If too high - well, you have other problems - like closing the canopy {:>) Here is Pete's description of his seal in case mine was unclear: My "C" shaped gasket just slides over the rear edge of this joggle. What makes my seal work is this. Running along the top of my "C" shaped seal is a tiny round flexible tube. The glareshield of the canopy extends forward of the plexiglass (outside) about 5 inches and this forward edge closes into/over the joggle. The tiny round tube running along the top of my "C" seal makes contact with the canopy under the front edge of the canopy when it is closed. Nothing is visible. Just remove Van's seal from on top of the joggle and slide mine onto the rear edge of the joggle. No adhesive needed Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PeterHunt1(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 02, 2007
Subject: Engine Sag
I built my engine cowl such that the spinner was 3/16 inches high because so many claimed the engine would sag. That did NOT happen to mine. After 200 hours the spinner remained just as high. No engine sag occurred. Well, I didn't like how it looked so I inserted an extra washer next to the engine on the two top engine mount bolts. Spinner alignment looks very good now and I didn't notice any performance change. I installed a new O-360-A1A with CS prop. My experience is that if you torque everything properly there is no measurable engine sag with time. Pete In Clearwater RV-6, all electric panel Reserve Grand Champion, Outstanding Aircraft - Sun 'n Fun 2006, 2007 ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 2007
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-7 engine/prop options
Hi Dennis, Thanks for reposting so we can read about your experience. Your experience really isn't all that rare, & that's what drove my original question. It seems obvious to me that integrity & competence are far more important than an A&P ticket if you want a good engine build. I'm not afraid of building my own but I am a bit leery of buying a core that costs as much as a typical auto conversion & then risk having to buy something major like a crankshaft, pushing costs into the realm of a new clone engine. My original question was asked in the hope of finding people who have had experience with 'alternative' (airboat) engine builders. It's interesting that we've seen one 1st hand report of an airboat engine disaster and one 1st hand account of a 'traditional' build disaster. In addition, I also got a private email from someone who had a major problem with one of the premier build shops that may end up in litigation because they have not been responsive. Three 1st hand accounts is much too small a sample size; I was hoping for more response. Perhaps those who have been willing to 'go there' don't bother with this list. :-) Thanks, Charlie Hopperdhh(at)aol.com wrote: > I wrote this some time ago and it never was posted. Here it is now for > what its worth! > > Some engine building thoughts: > > I agree with Stein here -- go get an overhaul manual (and the parts > catalog) and do it yourself. Send the parts out and get everything > yellow tagged, install new parts where recommended, and save all the > tags and receipts in a folder. After all, a Lycoming is a just a 4 > cylinder version of a Briggs & Stratton. Well, it turns out that it is > not quite that simple, but still there is usually only one way that the > parts will fit. In a way its like building the rest of the airplane. > There is help available on this list or on the Matronics engine list. > Just take your time at each step and get it right. If there is any > doubt, stop and get advice. The manuals are pretty thorough. One > exception is that there are some bolt torques that are not called out > that should be. I'm thinking here of the bolts that hold the idler > shafts to the case. Using the recommended torque for that size bolt > will strip the threads in the case. (How do I know that?) > > The ONLY way you are going to know what is in your engine is to put it > together yourself. You will find that you will have to make some > compromises -- nothing is perfect. For example, I try my best to make > sure the pieces in my engine are matched for balance, but they never > come out exact. (I haven't yet reached the point of being able to > balance connecting rods, so I must choose from what is available. I > don't trust the local hot rod shops to appreciate the stresses in a 2700 > RPM Lyc. Or to fully appreciate the fact that lives could be at stake > if one should fail. These rods are harder to balance because they do > not have extra weight at each end for balancing purposes like auto > engine rods.) Here is a case where Lycoming has a pretty wide window, > but the engine will run with less vibration if the rods (and pistons) > are matched. In my case, I put the closest pair in the rear of the > engine with hopes that balancing the prop will correct the front pair. > If they are too far apart, I get more rods and choose a closer pair. > This gets expensive. Economics forces some compromises. There is no > way around it. There is no perfect engine. The clearances are often > not exactly where you'd like them to be. There is usually a pretty wide > tolerance band, but you don't want to be too close to either end of it. > I wonder if all builders check the dry lifter clearance. I had to order > new pushrods to get all of them in tolerance. Once you have decided > that its good enough, you have to live with it. Believe me, you will > care more about how well your engine is put together than anyone else > who might put it together for you. > > Just because someone builds airboat engines doesn't mean they don't know > what they're doing. I'm sure there are some good ones out there. I > think Stein was speaking in terms of probability. On the other hand > just because someone has a fancy shop that builds only aircraft engines > doesn't mean that they always do it right either, or that they are as > particular as they ought to be. They run into compromising choices that > they have to make every day. Hopefully, their experience has taught > them how to make those choices. Its a matter of knowing and doing what > is right -- its a matter of integrity. > > After a prop strike I personally disassembled my engine (which was put > together by a reputable shop) and found a few things that really > disappointed me. Here are some examples: > > 1. Rod nuts were not a matched set. Some looked more oil stained than > others. Some were different styles than the several sets that I have > bought. I'm not sure if they were for an IO-360, or not. They probably > were not new when the engine was overhauled. This makes me wonder about > the stretch type rod bolts -- very critical parts in a 200 HP IO-360. > These must be replaced at overhaul. > > 2. Genuine silk thread was not used to seal the case halves. Cotton > (or synthetic) thread was used and it fell apart when the case was > separated. I could pick up a piece of the thread and pull it apart with > my fingers. If it were silk, I couldn't do that. The pattern it left > showed that part of it was not on the surface of the case, but had > fallen inside the engine during assembly. The engine had a pesky oil > leak in that area -- this could well have been the cause. > > 3. The engine always vibrated more than I thought it should. > Dynamically balancing the prop didn't help. This could have been due to > rod weight mismatch or it could have been the prop -- no way to tell > now. When I installed the engine I assembled, the vibration was > noticeably better, but it is not the same prop. I took out a > counterweighted IO-360 engine (-C1E6) and installed one without the > counter weights (-A1A). I am now assembling the original > counterweighted engine with a new crank. (Read ahead and this will make > more sense.) > > 4. Would you believe the engine had a left turning crank in it? Yes, > it did. I have mentioned this on this list before. This puts the oil > holes in a less than optimum position for oiling the rod bearings when > it is used in a normal turning engine. In fact, it puts them in about > the worst location. Some say this will work OK, some say it will eat up > the rod bearings. I only had about 160 hours on the engine and the > bearings didn't look too bad, but who knows? I couldn't live with > myself if I put it back it my own plane, let alone someone else's. The > FAA is looking in to this one. > > If you have never done this kind of work before, maybe you would be > better off having someone else do it for you. Experience is a good > teacher, but it can be an expensive way to learn things! I can't > wholeheartedly suggest that everyone should build their own engine. It > is really stressful. There is a lot to worry about -- at least it > causes me a lot of worry. But after I have it done, I have pretty high > confidence that it is going to serve me well. I don't have a lot of > experience with aircraft engines. Most of my engine building > experience was in the circle track racing business. And that was only > building engines for my own car. If I didn't have that experience, I > don't know if I would have the confidence to attempt an engine for my > airplane. I built my race engines because I couldn't afford to buy as > good of engine as I could build, so it made economic sense at the time. > BTW this was quite some time ago! > > Well, there's some of my thoughts on engine assembly. I'm sure not > everyone will agree with what I've written, so I'll go look for my old > Nomex underwear! > > Best regards, > > Dan Hopper > RV-7A > > > > In a message dated 4/24/2007 12:26:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, > stein(at)steinair.com writes: > > > Why not do it yourself? It's not difficult or hard, nor requires many > special tools. Buy the overhaul manual, buy the parts and "get 'er > done"! > One thing I would stay away from is several of the airboat builders > - don't > know specifically names, but I've seen plenty of their "handiwork" > and have > not yet been overly impressed. One such engine just cost one of my > employees BIG TIME in $$'s and pain in the rear. Engine was "new" by an > airboat builder. I have the remains on the floor of my shop. Not just > substandard, but downright scary (mismatched rods, butchered crank, > mismatched cyliners, mismatched pistons, the list goes on and on). > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "don wentz" <dasduck(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Engine Sag
Date: Jun 03, 2007
So many builders, so many different experiences. I wonder if the mounts themselves affect this? My O-360 RV-6 with wood prop initially sagged 3/16" (perfect, as I allowed for it) when I first flew it in 94. 500hrs later I changed to a Hartzell CS and it sagged some more, so I shimmed with some washers. A local RV-8 builder allowed for a little sag, it sagged more than he expected and is now about 3/16 low. This on a plane less than a year old (O-360 CS). So it will or it won't, regardless, you can fix it with the washers once you know. don _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of PeterHunt1(at)aol.com Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 12:58 PM Subject: RV-List: Engine Sag I built my engine cowl such that the spinner was 3/16 inches high because so many claimed the engine would sag. That did NOT happen to mine. After 200 hours the spinner remained just as high. No engine sag occurred. Well, I didn't like how it looked so I inserted an extra washer next to the engine on the two top engine mount bolts. Spinner alignment looks very good now and I didn't notice any performance change. I installed a new O-360-A1A with CS prop. My experience is that if you torque everything properly there is no measurable engine sag with time. Pete In Clearwater RV-6, all electric panel Reserve Grand Champion, Outstanding Aircraft - Sun 'n Fun 2006, 2007 _____ See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine Sag
Date: Jun 03, 2007
From: jhnstniii(at)aol.com
I wonder if the variations are due to some people not placing=C2-the hard and soft durometers in the correct orientation.=C2- --LeRoy Johnston -----Original Message----- From: don wentz <dasduck(at)comcast.net> Sent: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 11:59 am Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine Sag So many builders, so many different experiences. I wonder if the mounts themselves affect this? My O-360 RV-6 with wood prop initially sagged 3/16" (perfect, as I allowed f or it) when I first flew it in 94. 500hrs later I changed to a Hartzell CS and it sagged some more, so I shimme d with some washers. =C2- A local RV-8 builder allowed for a little sag, it sagged more than he expect ed and is now about 3/16 low.=C2- This on a plane less than a year old (O- 360 CS). =C2- So it will or it won't, regardless, you can fix it with the washers once you know. don From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matron ics.com] On Behalf Of PeterHunt1(at)aol.com Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 12:58 PM Subject: RV-List: Engine Sag I built my engine cowl such that the spinner was 3/16 inches high because so many claimed the engine would sag.=C2- That did NOT happen to mine.=C2 - After 200 hours the spinner remained just as high.=C2- No engine=C2 -sag occurred.=C2- Well, I didn't like how it looked so I inserted an ex tra washer next to the engine on the two top engine mount bolts.=C2- Spinn er alignment looks very good now and I didn't notice any performance change. =C2- I=C2-installed a new=C2-O-360-A1A with CS prop.=C2- My experience is t hat if you torque everything properly there is no measurable engine sag with time. =C2- Pete In Clearwater RV-6, all electric panel Reserve Grand Champion, Outstanding Aircraft - Sun 'n Fun 2006, 2007 See what's free at AOL.com. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?RV-List ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com -= - The RV-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as the Subscriptions page, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List -======================== -= - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content now also available via the Web Forums! -= --> http://forums.matronics.com -======================== ________________________________________________________________________ AOL at AOL.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 03, 2007
Subject: Re: Engine Sag
Me too. No engine sag so far. RV-6a with XP360. If I ever do another, I'll build it win no anticipated sag. Jerry From: PeterHunt1(at)aol.com Subject: RV-List: Engine Sag I built my engine cowl such that the spinner was 3/16 inches high because so many claimed the engine would sag. That did NOT happen to mine. After 200 hours the spinner remained just as high. No engine sag occurred. Well, I didn't like how it looked so I inserted an extra washer next to the engine on the two top engine mount bolts. Spinner alignment looks very good now and I didn't notice any performance change. I installed a new O-360-A1A with CS prop. My experience is that if you torque everything properly there is no measurable engine sag with time. Pete In Clearwater RV-6, all electric panel Reserve Grand Champion, Outstanding Aircraft - Sun 'n Fun 2006, 2007 ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Andy Gold" <andygold(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Garmin 196 help
Date: Jun 03, 2007
I just installed a Garmin 196 in place of my old Garmin 90. I liked the 90. It did everything I wanted it to do perfectly and simply for day VFR navigation. Just enter where you want to go and follow the arrow and it always took me right over the center of the destination airport. (I never used the map page) The only reason I gave it up was because the database was 5-6 years old and I couldn't get an update. So, I bought a 196. With all the raving about it here and on other web sites, I looked forward to seeing how great it really was. (for what I use it for I couldn't imagine how it could be any better, but at least its updated with the new maps and AFDs) Bottom line is the 196 has a really bad quirk that I don't like at all, enough that if I can't find a solution I'm going to pull it out and reinstall the relic 90. Following the arrow to a destination works great from a distance, but when I get within about 10-15 miles from the destination the arrow starts to skew over one way or the other. In other words the arrow says that the destination is 30 degrees over to the right, but I know the airport is straight ahead over the ridge. As I get closer, this displacement gets worse and worse. If I pass the airport the 196 does no correct. It keeps telling me to go straight or in the completely wrong direction. If I pass the airport with the 90, the arrow points to the tail, tells me to turn around and then guides you directly there, just like it should. This was an issue flying into Craig, CO a little while ago. I was unfamiliar with the area, so I trusted and followed the 196, right past town with the Garmin telling me to keep flying straight. I had to climb a couple thousand feet for a better view, circle around, and find the airport the old fashioned way. My question is for others flying a 196. Does yours do the same thing, or does your heading indicator trustfully point to your destination from wherever you are and from whatever direction your nose is pointed? Or, do I have a bad unit? Or do I need to somehow program out this glitch, or do I not know what I'm doing and need some dummy's book on how to use a GPS? Thanks, Andy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vince-Himsl" <vhimsl(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Cowl hot spots
Date: Jun 03, 2007
I am applying the aluminum stick on foil to my lower cowl and would appreciate builder experience with heat induced hot spots. That is, were should I put the stuff? So far, I have covered the aft 2/3 of the lower cowl with nothing on the upper cowl (RV8). Thanks! Vince H. RV8 - VSB . Finish (getting close) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 2007
From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-7 engine/prop options
Charlie England wrote: > > Hi Dennis, > > Thanks for reposting so we can read about your experience. Your > experience really isn't all that rare, & that's what drove my original > question. It seems obvious to me that integrity & competence are far > more important than an A&P ticket if you want a good engine build. > > I'm not afraid of building my own but I am a bit leery of buying a > core that costs as much as a typical auto conversion & then risk > having to buy something major like a crankshaft, pushing costs into > the realm of a new clone engine. You might make that a condition of the sale. But then litigation is a nasty way to spend your time. Maybe a non-refundable deposit may make the difference. It's a gamble on both ends. The seller may not know the engine (or parts) is crap. > My original question was asked in the hope of finding people who have > had experience with 'alternative' (airboat) engine builders. I bought an airboat engine ..... that was built up from different case halves. Sold it off as parts to another airboat engine builder. I could have sent the case out and had it overhauled, but I didn't want to take the chance. It wasn't a total disaster since I got all my money back. > It's interesting that we've seen one 1st hand report of an airboat > engine disaster and one 1st hand account of a 'traditional' build > disaster. In addition, I also got a private email from someone who had > a major problem with one of the premier build shops that may end up in > litigation because they have not been responsive. Three 1st hand > accounts is much too small a sample size; I was hoping for more > response. Perhaps those who have been willing to 'go there' don't > bother with this list. :-) If you have a way to verify it's 'history', I'd be more inclined to purchase a core. I have (right now) an O-320 and IO-470 that I bought to rebuild. $3500 and $4000 respectively. The accessories will be worth most of the cost!!!. Linn > > > Thanks, > > Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "SteinAir, Inc." <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Garmin 196 help
Date: Jun 03, 2007
Hi Andy, I'm not really sure which "arrow" you're referring to? is it the HSI/DG page? I've been using my old 196 for years and it's been super accurate the whole time (even driving my autopilot). The other question is why don't you use the map page? If you put in a "Direct To" to where you're going you just follow the line....no "arrow" to worry about?!?! Cheers, Stein. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andy Gold Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 2:31 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Garmin 196 help I just installed a Garmin 196 in place of my old Garmin 90. I liked the 90. It did everything I wanted it to do perfectly and simply for day VFR navigation. Just enter where you want to go and follow the arrow and it always took me right over the center of the destination airport. (I never used the map page) The only reason I gave it up was because the database was 5-6 years old and I couldn't get an update. So, I bought a 196. With all the raving about it here and on other web sites, I looked forward to seeing how great it really was. (for what I use it for I couldn't imagine how it could be any better, but at least its updated with the new maps and AFDs) Bottom line is the 196 has a really bad quirk that I don't like at all, enough that if I can't find a solution I'm going to pull it out and reinstall the relic 90. Following the arrow to a destination works great from a distance, but when I get within about 10-15 miles from the destination the arrow starts to skew over one way or the other. In other words the arrow says that the destination is 30 degrees over to the right, but I know the airport is straight ahead over the ridge. As I get closer, this displacement gets worse and worse. If I pass the airport the 196 does no correct. It keeps telling me to go straight or in the completely wrong direction. If I pass the airport with the 90, the arrow points to the tail, tells me to turn around and then guides you directly there, just like it should. This was an issue flying into Craig, CO a little while ago. I was unfamiliar with the area, so I trusted and followed the 196, right past town with the Garmin telling me to keep flying straight. I had to climb a couple thousand feet for a better view, circle around, and find the airport the old fashioned way. My question is for others flying a 196. Does yours do the same thing, or does your heading indicator trustfully point to your destination from wherever you are and from whatever direction your nose is pointed? Or, do I have a bad unit? Or do I need to somehow program out this glitch, or do I not know what I'm doing and need some dummy's book on how to use a GPS? Thanks, Andy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 2007
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: Re: Garmin 196 help
You can "follow" the arrow and still be left/right of course. Are the top middle and bottom of the arrow all aligned? Or is the center section of the arrow off to the left (for example) -- showing you are right of the direct course? -- Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com On 6/3/07, SteinAir, Inc. wrote: > > Hi Andy, > > I'm not really sure which "arrow" you're referring to? is it the HSI/DG > page? > > I've been using my old 196 for years and it's been super accurate the > whole time (even driving my autopilot). > > The other question is why don't you use the map page? If you put in a > "Direct To" to where you're going you just follow the line....no "arrow" to > worry about?!?! > > Cheers, > Stein. > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]*On Behalf Of* Andy Gold > *Sent:* Sunday, June 03, 2007 2:31 PM > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV-List: Garmin 196 help > > I just installed a Garmin 196 in place of my old Garmin 90. I liked the > 90. It did everything I wanted it to do perfectly and simply for day VFR > navigation. Just enter where you want to go and follow the arrow and it > always took me right over the center of the destination airport. (I never > used the map page) The only reason I gave it up was because the database > was 5-6 years old and I couldn't get an update. > > So, I bought a 196. With all the raving about it here and on other web > sites, I looked forward to seeing how great it really was. (for what I use > it for I couldn't imagine how it could be any better, but at least its > updated with the new maps and AFDs) > > Bottom line is the 196 has a really bad quirk that I don't like at all, > enough that if I can't find a solution I'm going to pull it out and > reinstall the relic 90. Following the arrow to a destination works great > from a distance, but when I get within about 10-15 miles from the > destination the arrow starts to skew over one way or the other. In other > words the arrow says that the destination is 30 degrees over to the right, > but I know the airport is straight ahead over the ridge. As I get closer, > this displacement gets worse and worse. If I pass the airport the 196 does > no correct. It keeps telling me to go straight or in the completely wrong > direction. If I pass the airport with the 90, the arrow points to the tail, > tells me to turn around and then guides you directly there, just like it > should. This was an issue flying into Craig, CO a little while ago. I was > unfamiliar with the area, so I trusted and followed the 196, right past town > with the Garmin telling me to keep flying straight. I had to climb a couple > thousand feet for a better view, circle around, and find the airport the old > fashioned way. > > My question is for others flying a 196. Does yours do the same thing, or > does your heading indicator trustfully point to your destination from > wherever you are and from whatever direction your nose is pointed? Or, do I > have a bad unit? Or do I need to somehow program out this glitch, or do I > not know what I'm doing and need some dummy's book on how to use a GPS? > > Thanks, > Andy > > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > * > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: Garmin 196 help
Date: Jun 03, 2007
Andy, I think you could make the 196 do as you described if you were to use the cursor to point to a destination on a small scale (zoomed out) map and hit the goto button. What would be happening is that the 196 would be taking you to some point that from a long distance looked like the destination, but as you got closer proved to be some distance away that wasn't obvious at the small scale. The solution would be to either enter the airport identifier as the destination or to zoom in to it at a large scale to pick it from the screen. Other than that, I don't have any suggestions. I haven't flown much with my 196 recently so I may be missing something. Terry _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Gold Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 12:31 PM Subject: RV-List: Garmin 196 help I just installed a Garmin 196 in place of my old Garmin 90. I liked the 90. It did everything I wanted it to do perfectly and simply for day VFR navigation. Just enter where you want to go and follow the arrow and it always took me right over the center of the destination airport. (I never used the map page) The only reason I gave it up was because the database was 5-6 years old and I couldn't get an update. So, I bought a 196. With all the raving about it here and on other web sites, I looked forward to seeing how great it really was. (for what I use it for I couldn't imagine how it could be any better, but at least its updated with the new maps and AFDs) Bottom line is the 196 has a really bad quirk that I don't like at all, enough that if I can't find a solution I'm going to pull it out and reinstall the relic 90. Following the arrow to a destination works great from a distance, but when I get within about 10-15 miles from the destination the arrow starts to skew over one way or the other. In other words the arrow says that the destination is 30 degrees over to the right, but I know the airport is straight ahead over the ridge. As I get closer, this displacement gets worse and worse. If I pass the airport the 196 does no correct. It keeps telling me to go straight or in the completely wrong direction. If I pass the airport with the 90, the arrow points to the tail, tells me to turn around and then guides you directly there, just like it should. This was an issue flying into Craig, CO a little while ago. I was unfamiliar with the area, so I trusted and followed the 196, right past town with the Garmin telling me to keep flying straight. I had to climb a couple thousand feet for a better view, circle around, and find the airport the old fashioned way. My question is for others flying a 196. Does yours do the same thing, or does your heading indicator trustfully point to your destination from wherever you are and from whatever direction your nose is pointed? Or, do I have a bad unit? Or do I need to somehow program out this glitch, or do I not know what I'm doing and need some dummy's book on how to use a GPS? Thanks, Andy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 2007
From: Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org>
Subject: Langley Fly-in June 23
The Langley, BC fly-in will be Saturday, June 23. This is the annual fly-in of the Western Canada Wing. Langley, BC, is about 20 nm north of Bellingham, WA. We generally have a good turnout of RVs from all over BC, and a good contingent from the U.S., too. Details are on our web page, http://www.vansairforce.org/CYNJ/ For U.S. visitors, the Home Wing web page has all the information you need on border crossing procedures. It's really not a big deal, although you do now need a passport to return to the U.S http://www.edt.com/homewing/international/ I hope lots of RV-Listers can make it. --- Tedd McHenry Van's Air Force Western Canada Wing tedd(at)vansairforce.org www.vansairforce.org ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Garmin 196 help
Date: Jun 03, 2007
Leave it to me to ID the possible cause. I only know of this from others and NOT personal experience. See if it makes a difference if you input the destination identifier that you put "K" in front of airports. (Does not apply if numbers are in airport ID) Example: LAA is a VOR whereas KLAA is the nearby airport. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Burton" <d-burton(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Garmin 196 help
Date: Jun 03, 2007
Hi Andy, Are you using the HSI page? You do have to watch the "to/from" arrow. If you fly past your destination the TO arrow flips to FROM which is not too obvious at a glance. A quick look at the "distance to destination" and you'll see there are only dashes since you are past your destination. I'm not sure what the other inaccuracy you are seeing is all about. Hope some of the other suggestions help! Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Andy Gold" <andygold(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Re: Garmin 196 help
Date: Jun 03, 2007
It's showing that I'm left or right of what the direct course would have been, either because I detoured around terrain or because the RV is just so much fun to fly that we'll play around a bit on the way to where we're going. But that shouldn't matter. At least it didn't with the Garmin 90. I know this may be heresy to some, but I don't really care where I am relative to what the straight line course would have been. I only care where my destination is relative to where I'm at now. I'd like to trust that when the GPS is locked into an official airport identifier that that's where its going to point to. I can always beg forgiveness from the chief pilot (my wife) or the accountant (my wife) later for burning too much fuel or spending to much time flying. Stein says just fly with the map page instead. That may well be what I have to do, but I'll miss the simplicity of just following the little arrow. Andy ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Bowen To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 2:58 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin 196 help You can "follow" the arrow and still be left/right of course. Are the top middle and bottom of the arrow all aligned? Or is the center section of the arrow off to the left (for example) -- showing you are right of the direct course? -- Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com On 6/3/07, SteinAir, Inc. wrote: Hi Andy, I'm not really sure which "arrow" you're referring to? is it the HSI/DG page? I've been using my old 196 for years and it's been super accurate the whole time (even driving my autopilot). The other question is why don't you use the map page? If you put in a "Direct To" to where you're going you just follow the line....no "arrow" to worry about?!?! Cheers, Stein. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andy Gold Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 2:31 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Garmin 196 help I just installed a Garmin 196 in place of my old Garmin 90. I liked the 90. It did everything I wanted it to do perfectly and simply for day VFR navigation. Just enter where you want to go and follow the arrow and it always took me right over the center of the destination airport. (I never used the map page) The only reason I gave it up was because the database was 5-6 years old and I couldn't get an update. So, I bought a 196. With all the raving about it here and on other web sites, I looked forward to seeing how great it really was. (for what I use it for I couldn't imagine how it could be any better, but at least its updated with the new maps and AFDs) Bottom line is the 196 has a really bad quirk that I don't like at all, enough that if I can't find a solution I'm going to pull it out and reinstall the relic 90. Following the arrow to a destination works great from a distance, but when I get within about 10-15 miles from the destination the arrow starts to skew over one way or the other. In other words the arrow says that the destination is 30 degrees over to the right, but I know the airport is straight ahead over the ridge. As I get closer, this displacement gets worse and worse. If I pass the airport the 196 does no correct. It keeps telling me to go straight or in the completely wrong direction. If I pass the airport with the 90, the arrow points to the tail, tells me to turn around and then guides you directly there, just like it should. This was an issue flying into Craig, CO a little while ago. I was unfamiliar with the area, so I trusted and followed the 196, right past town with the Garmin telling me to keep flying straight. I had to climb a couple thousand feet for a better view, circle around, and find the airport the old fashioned way. My question is for others flying a 196. Does yours do the same thing, or does your heading indicator trustfully point to your destination from wherever you are and from whatever direction your nose is pointed? Or, do I have a bad unit? Or do I need to somehow program out this glitch, or do I not know what I'm doing and need some dummy's book on how to use a GPS? Thanks, Andy href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com"> http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Burton" <d-burton(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Garmin 196 help
Date: Jun 03, 2007
Hi Andy, Just hit "goto" "enter" and the arrow will be well behaved again. for a while, if you behave. Dave _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Gold Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 3:25 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin 196 help It's showing that I'm left or right of what the direct course would have been, either because I detoured around terrain or because the RV is just so much fun to fly that we'll play around a bit on the way to where we're going. But that shouldn't matter. At least it didn't with the Garmin 90. I know this may be heresy to some, but I don't really care where I am relative to what the straight line course would have been. I only care where my destination is relative to where I'm at now. I'd like to trust that when the GPS is locked into an official airport identifier that that's where its going to point to. I can always beg forgiveness from the chief pilot (my wife) or the accountant (my wife) later for burning too much fuel or spending to much time flying. Stein says just fly with the map page instead. That may well be what I have to do, but I'll miss the simplicity of just following the little arrow. Andy ----- Original Message -----

May 16, 2007 - June 03, 2007

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