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April 03, 2008 - April 22, 2008

bottom line we still feel like we have to small of outlet on the cowl. we are still testing.........we shall see. Weasel _____________________________________________________________ Earn up to $300 hour. Click here to get information on starting <http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2112/fc/REAK6ZpPCf5s36c9PRQtFyClaNN5 axa Gezer7vCfQ07T4GItaLqiML/> a medical career. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV7A OVERHEATING
Date: Apr 03, 2008
With any 'a' model you have tons of obstacles in the outlet area that coaus e all kinds of turbulence. Several people have installed louvers to the le ft and right of the outlet with great results. Your CHT's seem just a tad bit high for the power, rpm, and cruise time you gave. Granted, with a new engine a bit high can be normal but I think they level you gave indicates one of a couple of things. first, check your baffles to make sure they are tight around the engine and upper cowling. Second, make sure the ramp are as of the inlets are smooth and don't have any excess holes. Tthe third th ing is the outlet flow area. Go ahead and get the pressure reading in the top inlet area. Once you compare the top and bottom you will have a much b etter idea. A friend, with an RV-9A, decided to install louvers and had great results. Even though he did not have any temps out of limits, he wanted to see what effect it had. Both the oil temps and the CHTs went down significantly. And with the louvers painted the same color as his cowling they do not look out of place. One quick reminder though. If you do install the louvers, when you cut through the honecomb part of the cowling, make sure to apply s ome eposy glue or resin to the cut areas to stop oil, grease, and water fro m getting into the honeycomb area of the cowling and causing delamination. Mike Robertson Das Fed Repeat offender From: smoothweasel(at)juno.comDate: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 14:38:51 +0000To: rv-list@ matronics.comSubject: RE: RV-List: RV7A OVERHEATING Just an update. we are continuing to work on the cooling issues..... the numbers i gave previously are higher now (probably due to higher O.S.A. temp). On a flight yesterday at low alt level flight the numbers are as follows. TAS 162 (verified by GPS) MP 23 in rpm 2350 (Verified correct) Oil Temp. 232 deg F CHT 395 deg F EGT 1350 (rich of peak) this information was established in constant flight for approx. 45 min. also we connected a magnahelic to the low pressure side of the cowl. (behin d the baffle) at 150 knots we have 4.5" w.c.. we have not tested it on the entering side yet but 4.5" on the low press raised my eye brows. I then mea sured the outlet cross sectional area and after taking into account for the ext. stacks it was much smaller than the rv-8 it shares a hanger with and also has a lot more obstacles tripping the airflow and therefore causing tu rbulence. I then measured the outlet on my rv-4 and the -7a even has a smal ler outlet than my -4. These are all stock cowls. bottom line we still feel like we have to small of outlet on the cowl. we are still testing.........we shall see. Weasel _____________________________________________________________Earn up to $3 00 hour. Click here to get information on starting a medical career. _________________________________________________________________ More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refr esh_instantaccess_042008 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: RV7A OVERHEATING
Date: Apr 03, 2008
Speaking of baffling - have a look at the two duct ramp pieces that were fibreglassed to the inlets on the upper cowl. I understand that depending on how you set up your baffles, that it is possible for high pressure air on the top side of the engine to go through the tunnels between those duct ramps and the cowl. The high pressure air may be able to go through those tunnels and end up on the low pressure side of the baffles. It this can happen, it would greatly reduce the amount of air that is available to go through the cylinder fins and the oil cooler. You may need to block off one end of that tunnel with fibreglas. Kevin Horton On 3-Apr-08, at 11:27 , Mike Robertson wrote: > With any 'a' model you have tons of obstacles in the outlet area > that coause all kinds of turbulence. Several people have installed > louvers to the left and right of the outlet with great results. > Your CHT's seem just a tad bit high for the power, rpm, and cruise > time you gave. Granted, with a new engine a bit high can be normal > but I think they level you gave indicates one of a couple of > things. first, check your baffles to make sure they are tight > around the engine and upper cowling. Second, make sure the ramp > areas of the inlets are smooth and don't have any excess holes. > Tthe third thing is the outlet flow area. Go ahead and get the > pressure reading in the top inlet area. Once you compare the top > and bottom you will have a much better idea. > > A friend, with an RV-9A, decided to install louvers and had great > results. Even though he did not have any temps out of limits, he > wanted to see what effect it had. Both the oil temps and the CHTs > went down significantly. And with the louvers painted the same > color as his cowling they do not look out of place. One quick > reminder though. If you do install the louvers, when you cut > through the honecomb part of the cowling, make sure to apply some > eposy glue or resin to the cut areas to stop oil, grease, and water > from getting into the honeycomb area of the cowling and causing > delamination. > > Mike Robertson > Das Fed > Repeat offender > > > From: smoothweasel(at)juno.com > Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 14:38:51 +0000 > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: RV7A OVERHEATING > > Just an update. we are continuing to work on the cooling issues..... > the numbers i gave previously are higher now (probably due to higher > O.S.A. temp). > On a flight yesterday at low alt level flight the numbers are as > follows. > TAS 162 (verified by GPS) > MP 23 in > rpm 2350 (Verified correct) > Oil Temp. 232 deg F > CHT 395 deg F > EGT 1350 (rich of peak) > this information was established in constant flight for approx. 45 > min. > also we connected a magnahelic to the low pressure side of the cowl. > (behind the baffle) at 150 knots we have 4.5" w.c.. we have not > tested it on the entering side yet but 4.5" on the low press raised > my eye brows. I then measured the outlet cross sectional area and > after taking into account for the ext. stacks it was much smaller > than the rv-8 it shares a hanger with and also has a lot more > obstacles tripping the airflow and therefore causing turbulence. I > then measured the outlet on my rv-4 and the -7a even has a smaller > outlet than my -4. These are all stock cowls. > bottom line we still feel like we have to small of outlet on the cowl. > we are still testing.........we shall see. > Weasel > > -- Kevin Horton Ottawa, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2008
From: "J. Mcculley" <mcculleyja(at)starpower.net>
Subject: Re: RV7A OVERHEATING
Can you provide the following additional data that could be helpful: 1. Ambient temperature at the flight altitude. 2. Indicated (calibrated) airspeed. 3. Actual measurements, or best estimate of square inches of clear area of cooling air outlet. 4. Same as 3 above for inlet cooling area. 5. Make/model and face area of oil cooler; Is this a new or used cooler? Also the cross section area of any scat tube feeding the cooler and where that air is sourced; Are all the air leakage cracks at the cooler face thoroughly sealed with the equivalent of red 600 fahrenheit silicon sealant? Does the exit air from the cooler flow out through the same cooling air exit as in item 3 above? 6. What is the sensor pickup location of your oil temperature indication? Are your CHT temperature probes in the cylinder head wells or under the spark plugs? Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- smoothweasel(at)juno.com wrote: > Just an update. we are continuing to work on the cooling issues..... > > the numbers i gave previously are higher now (probably due to higher > O.S.A. temp). > > On a flight yesterday at low alt level flight the numbers are as follows. > > TAS 162 (verified by GPS) > > MP 23 in > > rpm 2350 (Verified correct) > > Oil Temp. 232 deg F > > CHT 395 deg F > > EGT 1350 (rich of peak) > > this information was established in constant flight for approx. 45 min. > > also we connected a magnahelic to the low pressure side of the cowl. > (behind the baffle) at 150 knots we have 4.5" w.c.. we have not tested > it on the entering side yet but 4.5" on the low press raised my eye > brows. I then measured the outlet cross sectional area and after taking > into account for the ext. stacks it was much smaller than the rv-8 it > shares a hanger with and also has a lot more obstacles tripping the > airflow and therefore causing turbulence. I then measured the outlet on > my rv-4 and the -7a even has a smaller outlet than my -4. These are all > stock cowls. > > bottom line we still feel like we have to small of outlet on the cowl. > > we are still testing.........we shall see. > > Weasel > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Earn up to $300 hour. Click here to get information on starting a > medical career. > <http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2112/fc/REAK6ZpPCf5s36c9PRQtFyClaNN5axaGezer7vCfQ07T4GItaLqiML/> > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2008
From: Bob <panamared5(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: Used RV buying best practices?
At 09:17 AM 4/2/08, you wrote: >I think a set of Best Practices for used RV pre-buy/purchasing would >be helpful. Has anything like this been compiled before? I'm thinking about: It would seem to me that the RV world is in a transisition where a lot of RV owners are now or will be non builders. As we see more non builders as RV owners, this issue of how well is an RV built will increasingly become more and more important. In my opinion the best way(s) to learn how to inspect an RV: 1. Build an RV or metal airplane, or 2. Build a non metal airplane, or 3. Read the archives, or 4. Read the Bible that I used to build my RV, "AC 43.13-1B Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices, Aircraft Inspection and Repair." The AC covers all aspects of building, inspection and aircraft repair. It even has pictures, drawings, diagrams, tables etc. There is nothing special about how an RV is built. It uses standard techniques and practices that would be the same for a Mustang II or any of the RV series aircraft. Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2008
From: Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com>
Subject: Re: RV7A OVERHEATING
On 04/03 12:18, Kevin Horton wrote: > > Speaking of baffling - have a look at the two duct ramp pieces that > were fibreglassed to the inlets on the upper cowl. I understand that > depending on how you set up your baffles, that it is possible for high > pressure air on the top side of the engine to go through the tunnels > between those duct ramps and the cowl. The high pressure air may be > able to go through those tunnels and end up on the low pressure side > of the baffles. It this can happen, it would greatly reduce the > amount of air that is available to go through the cylinder fins and > the oil cooler. You may need to block off one end of that tunnel with > fibreglas. Follow this thread for more information dissemination and pretty pics about what Kevin is writing about: Also, check out the poll results. http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=8209 -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com - Painting http://www.evorocket.com - Empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2008
From: Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: RV7A OVERHEATING
Weasel, Just as a data point, on our 6A with O-320, we used to see oil temps in the 200 to 220 degree range on not very hot days until we moved the oil cooler from the firewall to behind the baffle at #4 cyl. Do the math of cross sectional area in the scat tube to surface area of the oil cooler then think about length of tube, bends etc. In our case, with 3" scat, it was 1.5" squared x pi, or about 7 sq" with 18" of scat and 1 bend vs. 4 x 5 or about 20 sq" directly in the airflow. Now we see 180 to 190 degrees on warm days. This is the Niagara cooler. I'm not sure which one Van's supplies now, but I don't think that it is the Stewart Warner which is the one you really want. Others have made good suggestions about cowl airflow. I think that you probably need to address the airflow through the cooler as a separate issue. One approach might be to combine 2 or more scats into a plenum above the oil cooler. What out that you don't create a bunch of turbulence, though. Stuff in the exit airflow path from the cooler can have a negative impact on cooling performance, too. Pax, Ed Holyoke smoothweasel(at)juno.com wrote: > > Hello all, It's been a long time since i have found time to read "the > list". I have been helping a friend finish a rv-7a and test fly it. > It has a new superior 360 parallel valve engine, Hartzell blended > airfoil prop, the oil cooler is the one that comes with the finishing > kit and is mounted on the firewall with a 3.5 in scat duct going to it > (with no sharp bends in the duct). the cowl air exit is the standard > size. ie. no extra openings. > > His problem is over heating oil. With 52 deg. F. Outside air crusing > at 24 in map. and 2350rpm on the prop the oil will run about > 220-225deg F. The CHT runs about 360-370 deg. F. The engine now has > 30hr or more on it. > > Will the Oil temp drop any more with "break in"? Should it have more > exit air leaving the cowl....some have suggested installing "luvers" > on the botom of the cowl to help with that...? > > Also the airplane cruises at the above power setting at 8000ft at > 164kn TAS he thinks this is a little slow...... Is this what most of > you are seeing with the same engine/prop combo??? > > btw i tried to search the archives on this but didnt find the specific > info..........probably dont know how to look it up right... > > > > Thanks for any thoughts > > Weasel RV-4 400hr > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Click here to become a professional counselor in less time than you > think. > <http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2112/fc/Ioyw6iigjRkllMv4ZGFXw1J0mnPH95dNcFS3uxBE5YnuT7oNq7kzGL/> > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2008
From: "David Schaefer" <n142ds(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Short Notice - Jefferson City, MO Fly-in - KJEF
I received this email earlier in the day: *As I promised late last year, here is you notice of a last minute fly in. Weather is scheduled to be 'SUNNY' !!* *Once again, the owner of 'NICKS' restaurant has agreed to open his doors on Saturday just for this fly in and he will be serving 11 A.M. -- 2 P.M. on April 5th.* *A partial menu follows:* *Country Fried Ham Plates or Sandwiches* *Country Fried Chicken Plates or Sandwiches* *Pork Tenderloin Plates or Sandwiches* *Fish Plates or Sandwiches* *There is no 'formal program'.....just a short notice plain ol' fly in and maybe some hangar/war stories.* *Additionally, L.C. Flight Shop located in the terminal building next to the Nick's Restaurant will be open between 10 A. M. and 3 P.M. for your convenience. Also Jefferson City Flying Service will have a couple of additional linemen on duty to assist with the parking. * *The Jefferson City Tower Frequency is: 125.6 and we now have a new parallel taxi way for runway 12/30.* *I will appreciate it very much if you would be so kind as to respond to the undersigned with the type aircraft and number in your party along with an approximate time of arrival. Email or telephonic response either will work! * *Looking forward to meeting you,* *Bob Morgan* *Cell: 573-680-5211 Bob Morgan [N1142G(at)mchsi.com] * ** Since the weather is supposed to be nice. I wanted to pass it on to the rest of the RV Community. -- David W. Schaefer RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS www.n142ds.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)erfwireless.net>
Subject: Florida Use Tax
Date: Apr 04, 2008
For those going to Sun & Fun it does not appear that there is any problem with the Florida use tax. FMI read: http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2008/080328fl.pdf Russ Daves N710RV- Flying RV-10 RV-7 Wings and Tail finished ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "mike humphrey" <mike109g6(at)insideconnect.net>
Subject: Re: Florida Use Tax
Date: Apr 04, 2008
Yeah, unless you need repair, an officer of a company with 'connection to FL', bought your plane from an individual, believe that they 'don't do ramp checks', etc. etc. In reality, SNF flyers probably will not be affected, but only because the DOR does not want the bad publicity. The response to AOPA's questions actually contradicted the statues on a couple of points. In one instance the response states 'no use tax imposed for non-residents with aircraft less than 6 months old', but the statues actually state that 'a use tax will be imposed if you need repair, training, commercial operation'. The responder actually doesn't understand the statues himself since two different statues contradict each other, and he only sites one statue as the I wonder if other states have similar statues? If so, I pity FL residents that have to temporarily relocate their a/c due to hurricanes, or have their a/c repaired due to hurricane damage, or want to train in another state. But what can you expect from a welfare based state, where there are more people on welfare than working. Here in KY 10% of the population(working) SUPPORT the other 90% of the population(non-working). I bet that it is similar percentages in FL. Tax you to the grave vs. solving the problem-get more people working and stop the unnecessary free handouts. I will now get off my soapbox and return you to your normal broadcast, Mike H ----- Original Message ----- From: Russell Daves To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 7:29 AM Subject: RV-List: Florida Use Tax For those going to Sun & Fun it does not appear that there is any problem with the Florida use tax. FMI read: http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2008/080328fl.pdf Russ Daves N710RV- Flying RV-10 RV-7 Wings and Tail finished ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Dudley" <rhdudley1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale
Date: Apr 04, 2008
Listers, These are questions for anyone who has built and sold an OBAM/Amateur Built Aircraft. Once the buyer has paid you for the aircraft by whatever means: electronic transfer, cashier's check, certified check or cash, and that 5+ figure amount is put into your "whatever" account, anything over $10K requires the bank or other financial institution to report it to some federal government agency since there is concern about the cleanliness of the money. My questions are: 1. What sort of information will the seller be required to provide ? 2. What are the IRS implications/requirements for accounting for and reporting the sale amount? A. Is there a requirement to account for the materials and parts cost of building? B. Are the labor hours of building of any consequence? OR C. Is the difference between costs of materials and parts and the sale price called "ordinary income". Thanks for any experience or insight. Regards, Richard Dudley RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale
Date: Apr 04, 2008
I'm not a lawyer but I believe that the 10k rule applies to cash transactions only. Any other method, check, wire transfer, etc, leaves a paper trail. Which is all the feds are concerned about. Bruce <http://www.glasair.org/> www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Dudley Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 1:46 PM Subject: RV-List: Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale Listers, These are questions for anyone who has built and sold an OBAM/Amateur Built Aircraft. Once the buyer has paid you for the aircraft by whatever means: electronic transfer, cashier's check, certified check or cash, and that 5+ figure amount is put into your "whatever" account, anything over $10K requires the bank or other financial institution to report it to some federal government agency since there is concern about the cleanliness of the money. My questions are: 1. What sort of information will the seller be required to provide ? 2. What are the IRS implications/requirements for accounting for and reporting the sale amount? A. Is there a requirement to account for the materials and parts cost of building? B. Are the labor hours of building of any consequence? OR C. Is the difference between costs of materials and parts and the sale price called "ordinary income". Thanks for any experience or insight. Regards, Richard Dudley RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry James" <larry(at)ncproto.com>
Subject: Used RV buying best practices
Date: Apr 04, 2008
I started down the path of buying a flying RV and decided to go another route. After traveling to see a few aircraft and coming away very disappointed, something I found helpful was to ask the owner/builder to take photos of the "worst areas" of the aircraft and send them to me. This helped a bit in my initial screening process. Larry E. James Bellevue, WA Super Decathlon Rocket (under construction) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 05, 2008
From: George Inman 204 287 8334 <ghinman(at)mts.net>
Subject: Fuel line near Exhaust
How close can you run a fuel line to the exhaust? The line from engine driven fuel pump to the Throttle body on my fuel inj. O360 ,passes about 1/2" above the heat shield ,which in turn is about 1/4" from the exhaust pipe. Are others flying with a similar arrangement? I have fire sleeve and a heat reflective sleeve on the fuel line. -- George H. Inman ghinman(at)mts.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Dudley" <rhdudley1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale
Date: Apr 05, 2008
Thanks to all who offered opinions to my questions!!!! Richard Dudley ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Dudley To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 1:45 PM Subject: RV-List: Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale Listers, These are questions for anyone who has built and sold an OBAM/Amateur Built Aircraft. Once the buyer has paid you for the aircraft by whatever means: electronic transfer, cashier's check, certified check or cash, and that 5+ figure amount is put into your "whatever" account, anything over $10K requires the bank or other financial institution to report it to some federal government agency since there is concern about the cleanliness of the money. My questions are: 1. What sort of information will the seller be required to provide ? 2. What are the IRS implications/requirements for accounting for and reporting the sale amount? A. Is there a requirement to account for the materials and parts cost of building? B. Are the labor hours of building of any consequence? OR C. Is the difference between costs of materials and parts and the sale price called "ordinary income". Thanks for any experience or insight. Regards, Richard Dudley RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lance Sorensen <lancej(at)charter.net>
Subject: fuselage stand
Date: Apr 05, 2008
I have a rotating fuselage stand for RV 6, RV7, or RV9 fuselage that is for sale. Price is $250 plus shipping. This stand will make work on your fuselage much easier. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Sun and fun booth
Date: Apr 07, 2008
Are there any venders that would be willing to share some space. My schedule has changed which allows me to get to Lakeland. I'd like to show off some of the rv10 parts I've been selling. Of coarse by share I mean "rent". Steve dinieri Iflyrv10.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2008
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Engine - which drain plug port to use?
Folks, I'm getting ready to put some 'real' oil in my engine prior to starting it up instead of the pickling juices from the builder. I'm thinking about maintenance - I'll need to change the oil on a regular basis so I got one of the drain valves from ACS. The question is where to put it....there are three places that are available and lend themselves to easy access. Some a re Left, some are right, some are forward, some are aft. Two of them are safety-wired with a square looking bolt head protruding, one of them is a recessed allen-head plug (with no safety). I'm thinking that the safetied ones are straight thread vs NPT which would narrow my choices as I think my fitting is NPT. The aircraft is a 6A so it sits more level than a 6 - that would be a consideration. Ralph ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2008
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Brake / Rudder pedal throw
Fellow builders, I am looking at a potential interference between my brake pedals and my cabin heat valves. I have not added brake fluid to my system as I may have to do some 'rearranging' With full rudder pedal deflection, the outboard brake pedals hit the throw arm on their respective heater valves. I built them fairly symmetrical so it happening on both sides doesn't surprise me. I can relocate the throw arms to the opposite side of the firewall and route the cables through eyeball fittings if necessary - but I would like to find out how bad it could be. I'm using the kit supplied master cylinders for both seats (same masters supplied in the dual brake kit). What I need to know is: "For brake application to hold the airframe with full engine power applied, how much of the master cylinder throw rod is down in the master cylinder?" From what I can determine, the max throw is just under 1.5", so that gives me an idea of what's going on. My first thoughts are to rebuild the heater valve actuator so that it's not there to be interfered with - but then I may stil have to worry about someone with a long foot. Relocating the cable / throw arm to the forward side of the firewall may be a better solution. Thanks, Ralph Capen RV6AQB N822AR @ N06 forever finishing..... Knocking out some of the million little things - only 750,000 left..... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: LOG BOOKS
Date: Apr 07, 2008
> Painting all our opinions with a broad brush and saying we are the cause > for > low safety records of GA is simply a bit too much. Nobody on this list > built an airplane because they wanted to be stupid and reckless. This is > just my opinion of course and I respect yours except for the part where > you > condemn some of us. Tim, we ARE the cause of our poor safety record. From using questionable "non-aviation" items, to ignoring problems during the flight test period, to poor judgment when flying. Frankly it is time for the RV community to develop a safety program that highlights the problem areas with the goal of reducing our accident rate by as much as 25-50% in the next five years. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2008
From: Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org>
Subject: Re: Used RV buying best practices?
On Wed, 2 Apr 2008, Andrew M wrote: > I think a set of Best Practices for used RV pre-buy/purchasing would be > helpful. That's a great idea for the Matronics wiki. I've started a page with the suggestions from this thread. <http://wiki.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/Buying_a_Used_RV> I've also added a link to that page from the main RV page. <http://wiki.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/RV> Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: LOG BOOKS
Date: Apr 07, 2008
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Open and meaningful discussion can do that. John Cox -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 7:32 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: LOG BOOKS > Painting all our opinions with a broad brush and saying we are the cause > for > low safety records of GA is simply a bit too much. Nobody on this list > built an airplane because they wanted to be stupid and reckless. This is > just my opinion of course and I respect yours except for the part where > you > condemn some of us. Tim, we ARE the cause of our poor safety record. From using questionable "non-aviation" items, to ignoring problems during the flight test period, to poor judgment when flying. Frankly it is time for the RV community to develop a safety program that highlights the problem areas with the goal of reducing our accident rate by as much as 25-50% in the next five years. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Grover" <RV8(at)comcast.net>
Subject: AD compliance
Date: Apr 07, 2008
For what it's worth, I am not an expert on the subject. When I received my airworthiness certificate several years ago the DAR required that the oil pump AD on my used IO-360 be complied with. I spoke with the FAA directly and they did not know or have an answer on AD compliance. I spoke with AOPA, no insight. I spoke with EAA. They said (from an interpretation from the FAA) that you are not required to comply with an AD however you are required to address the issue. The logic being that when I replaced the gears in my engine thus complying with the AD, however I am not an A&P so the AD was not technically complied with. I did however address the issue. There position was that I could address the issue using whatever method you choose not necessarily what is spelled out in the AD. In my case I happened to use their method of addressing the issue. My understanding is that if I wanted to place this engine back on a certified A/C the AD would still need to be complied with. This seems like common sense logic so I am going with it. Again I am no expert. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2008
From: Bob <panamared5(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: RV Safey Record
>>Painting all our opinions with a broad brush and saying we are the cause for >>low safety records of GA is simply a bit too much. Nobody on this list >>built an airplane because they wanted to be stupid and reckless. This is >>just my opinion of course... > >Tim, we ARE the cause of our poor safety record. From using questionable >"non-aviation" items, to ignoring problems during the flight test period, to >poor judgment when flying. > >Frankly it is time for the RV community to develop a safety program that >highlights the problem areas with the goal of reducing our accident rate >by as much as 25-50% in the next five years. How about some facts to prove that RV pilots are responsible for the poor GA safety record. It seems to me that there is a strong lobby of people who want certified standards to apply to experimentals. If you want to do this with your RV, fine if you think you can. If you expect to buy a used RV that meets certified standards, well I don't know? As far as complying with ADs and SBs, yes I do. But, my oil pump did not fail until I installed the newer version as required by the AD. As for Van's fuel tank SB, three years later I am still digging out proseal from my fuel filter, the result either way is a lack of fuel flow when there is plenty of fuel. So maybe, just a hunch, complying with ADs and SBs are not always the safest thing one can do. Poor judgement in my case was trying to fix something that was not broken. And why is safety so important. If I want to kayak a Class V Whitewater River, who is to say that it is too dangerous and I should not be allowed to do so, or that I should only Kayak Class II rivers? To relate this to flying RVs, how many RV accidents could we prevent if no one flew IMC in an RV? After all IMC flying is much more dangerous than VFR no wind, no clouds etc. What about outlawing night flight, or mountain flying, or flying over water or just plain flying without a purpose? And my pet peeve of all, crashing without filing a flightplan? After the EAA Arlington crash a few years ago (the one were a nonbuilder, did a pull to vertical on takeoff and then completed a whip stall and landed nose first and killed himself) maybe non builders should not be allowed to fly RVs? Ridiculous, but I would like to know how many crashes were by the builder and how many by non builders. I am all for safety, it is hard to argue against. But turning an experimental into a certified aircraft that only uses certified parts and no experimental parts, radios, avionics etc., is not the way. Somebody define a "questionable non aviation items?" Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: RV Safey Record
Date: Apr 07, 2008
I wrote: >Tim, we ARE the cause of our poor safety record. From using questionable >>"non-aviation" items, to ignoring problems during the flight test period, >>to >>poor judgment when flying. >> >>Frankly it is time for the RV community to develop a safety program that >>highlights the problem areas with the goal of reducing our accident rate >>by as much as 25-50% in the next five years. Bob wrote: > How about some facts to prove that RV pilots are responsible for the poor > GA safety record. Bob, it is fact that around 75% of accidents are due to pilot error...RV, Cessna, Piper, Cirrus. My point is that there is no reason that the RV community can't improve the accident rate (lower it) of the RV population. Personally I would use the AOPA on-line classes as a core. Study those then come to a forum where the group discusses the common accident factors and how to avoid it. You can't stop stupid and you will never get the accident rate to zero. But let's be overly optimistic and assume that this safety program cuts the RV accident rate 50%. Here are some of the benefits: 1) More parents around to see their kids grow up. 2) More RVs to buy for non-builders like me. 3) Lower insurance rates (hopefully) Frankly I am tired of seeing RV accidents and fatalities. Let's step up, develop a good safety program, get to as many RV pilots as possible and start reducing our accident rate. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry James" <larry(at)ncproto.com>
Subject: pitot / static line material
Date: Apr 07, 2008
Hi All, I think I once had this figured out but have forgotten - meaning my project is taking way too long. I have the store-bought aluminum Static Ports with barbed fittings on the back side. I'd like to keep barbed fittings throughout for simplicity and reliability - I've had compression and "instant" fittings leak. What size and type tubing is best ?? I'm looking at Tygon, polyurethane, polyethelene, and other exotics ... but is there someone with the technical expertise to say one is best over the other ?? Thanks !!!! Larry E. James Bellevue, WA Super Decathlon Rocket (under construction) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russ & Marilyn" <rmkeith(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: pitot / static line material
Date: Apr 07, 2008
Larry, Go with the polyurethane, you will only have to buy this stuff once. It's flexible and very tough. Russ Keith RV9A Slow Build ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry James To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 8:29 PM Subject: RV-List: pitot / static line material Hi All, I think I once had this figured out but have forgotten - meaning my project is taking way too long. I have the store-bought aluminum Static Ports with barbed fittings on the back side. I'd like to keep barbed fittings throughout for simplicity and reliability - I've had compression and "instant" fittings leak. What size and type tubing is best ?? I'm looking at Tygon, polyurethane, polyethelene, and other exotics ... but is there someone with the technical expertise to say one is best over the other ?? Thanks !!!! Larry E. James Bellevue, WA Super Decathlon Rocket (under construction) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 07, 2008
Subject: Re: pitot / static line material
In a message dated 4/7/2008 5:36:33 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, larry(at)ncproto.com writes: I have the store-bought aluminum Static Ports with barbed fittings on the back side. I=99d like to keep barbed fittings throughout for simplic ity and reliability =93 I=99ve had compression and =9Cinstant =9D fittings leak. What size and type tubing is best ?? I=99m looking at Tygon, polyurethane, polyeth elene, and other exotics .. but is there someone with the technical exper tise to say one is best over the other ?? SMC has a really nice light walled black polyurethane that fits their pneumatic fittings and would be my recommendation to you. It will last the lifetime of the airframe. By the way Tygon is just another brand name and not descriptive of a particular polymer. N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 887hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley) (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000 016) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV-9A Kit for sale
From: "n7hqk" <n7hqk(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 08, 2008
I won't be able to complete this kit... So it is up for sale. Includes: RV-9A kit minus the finishing kit. Completed to bottom skin on wings and rear lower fuse assy. O-320 Engine with prop gov (No Prop) and other accessories. No Tools. Make a reasonable offer and you can have almost a quick-build in your garage! See it at: www.mykitlog.com/n7hqk e-mail me at: n7hqk(at)yahoo.com -------- Ray D. Congdon - N7HQK Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175466#175466 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2008
From: RICHARD MILLER <rickpegser(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV Safey Record
>From the maintenance side of the house i have to say that the manufacturers have caused a lot of the bogus parts problem with 300$ wheel bearings that can be had for 50$ at any bearing shop, 500$ voltage regulator that came from a tractor and 2000$ starters. lets be honest a timkin bearing is a timkin bearing. and they often go 200,000 miles on a car. show me the cessna that has 200,000 miles on it's mains. That said the biggest problem i find with homebuilts is the use of non-approved hardware. an bolts are not that expensive, use them. wackie structural mods that you could never get a 337 for on a certified airplane. read and head ac43-13 it would slove a lot of problems. and really bad wiring. the use of industrial grade switches and circuit breakers would go along way towards solving this, instead of the crap you can get at radioshack. don't use toggle switches with plastic handles they break way to easy. Every aircraft is a design compromise, between performance, safety and cost. it is up to the builder to accept how much compromise you are willing to accept when you start to play with a design. i personally will not fly in a homebuilt fiberglass ship. i don't trust bonds that i can not see much less inspect. i know that aluminum works, and that even boeing and airbus have had problems with composites. Remember your compromise effects not only you but your family and that poor smuck on the ground that you land on. Fly is a privilege not a right. And while we are allowed to build our own aircraft now, If too many of us get too crazy we will lose that privilege. Just because you can do it, does not mean that you should. Remember the idiot with the helium ballons straped to the lawn chair in los angles. There are very few of us that are qualified to make our own engines from parts in a junk yard. much less conduct the kind of testing that that would require. and if done right those engines would cost ten time what a certified engine costs. Flying is expensive and at some point you have to say i can not afford to do that now. I would love to be building a rv-10 right now but the cessna 120 project will have to do for now. Besides i get to test fly everbody elses airplanes and charge them for it. this sermon is over and the ushers will now be passing the collection plates for the rv-10 kit. please open your wallets and dig deep have fun fly safe rick Bob wrote: >>Painting all our opinions with a broad brush and saying we are the cause for >>low safety records of GA is simply a bit too much. Nobody on this list >>built an airplane because they wanted to be stupid and reckless. This is >>just my opinion of course... > >Tim, we ARE the cause of our poor safety record. From using questionable >"non-aviation" items, to ignoring problems during the flight test period, to >poor judgment when flying. > >Frankly it is time for the RV community to develop a safety program that >highlights the problem areas with the goal of reducing our accident rate >by as much as 25-50% in the next five years. How about some facts to prove that RV pilots are responsible for the poor GA safety record. It seems to me that there is a strong lobby of people who want certified standards to apply to experimentals. If you want to do this with your RV, fine if you think you can. If you expect to buy a used RV that meets certified standards, well I don't know? As far as complying with ADs and SBs, yes I do. But, my oil pump did not fail until I installed the newer version as required by the AD. As for Van's fuel tank SB, three years later I am still digging out proseal from my fuel filter, the result either way is a lack of fuel flow when there is plenty of fuel. So maybe, just a hunch, complying with ADs and SBs are not always the safest thing one can do. Poor judgement in my case was trying to fix something that was not broken. And why is safety so important. If I want to kayak a Class V Whitewater River, who is to say that it is too dangerous and I should not be allowed to do so, or that I should only Kayak Class II rivers? To relate this to flying RVs, how many RV accidents could we prevent if no one flew IMC in an RV? After all IMC flying is much more dangerous than VFR no wind, no clouds etc. What about outlawing night flight, or mountain flying, or flying over water or just plain flying without a purpose? And my pet peeve of all, crashing without filing a flightplan? After the EAA Arlington crash a few years ago (the one were a nonbuilder, did a pull to vertical on takeoff and then completed a whip stall and landed nose first and killed himself) maybe non builders should not be allowed to fly RVs? Ridiculous, but I would like to know how many crashes were by the builder and how many by non builders. I am all for safety, it is hard to argue against. But turning an experimental into a certified aircraft that only uses certified parts and no experimental parts, radios, avionics etc., is not the way. Somebody define a "questionable non aviation items?" Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcowper(at)webtv.net (Pete Cowper)
Date: Apr 08, 2008
Subject: Re: RV Safety Record
I doubt that the RV safety record can ever be brought below the general aviation average, as these are the "sports cars" of the general aviation fleet. Pilots fly them for fun and excitement...not just a safe means of transportation. I imagine the safety record of better-handling Corvettes over the years is much poorer that that of Chevrolet sedans. RV pilots getting sufficient training is the key. Pete Cowper RV-8 #81139 (just flipped fuselage) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: AD compliance / applicability
Date: Apr 08, 2008
Hi All- Well, believe it or not, and with the help of EAA's regulatory liaison, I've gotten to the bottom of the whole AD / Amateur Built Experimental issue. Really. But first: The FAA can't agree internally on the subject. Elements within the FAA say they do apply, others say they don't, and yet a third faction says they don't apply but should. And, get this, AC 39-7c is (legally speaking) incorrect. Go figure. One reason the relevant documents have not been cleaned up and clarified is that the FAA seems to want us to believe that AD's do apply in order to increase the likelihood of our taking corrective action when they are issued. The highest horsepower document on the subject comes to us from the Federal Register. The fact that this document is in the register is what causes it to trump all the other documents and opinions on the subject. The document itself is all about LSA's, and it contains a table entitled Light-Sport Aircraft Maintenance and Certification Requirements located within section IV, Comparative Tables. This particular table compares the maintenance and certification requirements of six different categories of aircraft, including amateur built. It can be accessed at: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFinalRule.nsf/c03aa95a6 d5f3d57852564720071b601/1d47971728e12ba286256edf004385aa!OpenDocument Now, should one choose to look up the comparative data in this document, at the cross reference of Amateur built and Airworthiness Directives, one would find the wording leaves some room for ambiguity. However, if one were to look at the adjacent entries for the various other certification categories, the intent becomes quite clear. AD's are not issued against our planes, nor anything installed in them. The foregoing does not relieve us of our requirements to address AD's. We do not have to comply with an AD, but we do have to address an AD. For example, the recent RSA AD calls for an A&P to do the work to be in compliance. If I do the work myself, I will have addressed the AD without being in compliance, as I am not an A&P. If we fail to address an AD, either as owner / operator doing the work or as repairman / A&P performing the condition inspection, we are liable for violation under the careless and reckless provisions of part 91 of the FAR's, but not under part 39. Now, don't ask me to rationalize all the conflicting info available to us, what one guy said, or the hard time one of us got from a particular fed. At this point in time, the above represents the official position of the folks at the top of the food chain. Bon appetit! glen matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: RV Safety Record
Date: Apr 08, 2008
I doubt that the RV safety record can ever be brought below the general > aviation average, as these are the "sports cars" of the general aviation > fleet. Pilots fly them for fun and excitement...not just a safe means > of transportation. > Can't agree with you. When 75% or so of accidends are due to PILOT ERROR, that can be fixed. I have perhaps 1300 hours in my 6A and because it is "sporty" is not an excuse to do stupid things like fly into weather, over mountains when the winds are high, stall turning base or any of the other pilot error induced accidents. We can and should make things better in the RV community. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2008
From: "Rob Prior" <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: RV Safey Record
On 11:05 2008-04-08 RICHARD MILLER wrote: > i personally will not fly in a homebuilt fiberglass ship. i don't trust > bonds that i can not see much less inspect. .. > this sermon is over and the ushers will now be passing the collection > plates for the rv-10 kit. please open your wallets and dig deep How confident will you be in the fibreglass cowling, canopy, wingtips, empennage tips, fairings, wheelpants, etc. on your RV-10? Have you flown in someone else's RV-10 with all of those "scary" fibreglass components attached? If you want to be cautious about who you fly with, fine, but outright fearmongering about fibreglass airplanes is really unwarranted. I'm sure there are just as many examples of poorly built metal airplanes that showed now signs of problems until they failed. -Rob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2008
From: Scott <acepilot(at)bloomer.net>
Subject: Re: RV Safety Record
Clarify. Are you saying RV pilots account for a major portion of pilot error accidents compared to pilots of all other experimental airplanes? I guess that COULD be true since I suspect that a majority of experimental aircraft are RVs. How many RVs are flying now? 5000? That's more than Cessna made of models 120, 140 and probably 170 as well. Also, if you go through NTSB crash reports of commercial aircraft, pilot error is often cited as cause or at least a contributing factor. Humans make mistakes. Period. Take the pilot out of the equation and put a "perfect" computer in his/her place. Oops, forget that. Airbus tried that. Remember the Paris Air Show when the computer landed the Airbus in the woods? I don't think RV pilots have the market cornered on doing things to get themselves into trouble. A lot of GA accidents deal with VFR flight into IFR conditions. Yes, poor decision making perhaps, but I feel slighted that you think RV pilots are the only ones dumb enough to do stuff like that... Maybe I'm taking it all out of context? Scott Ron Lee wrote: > > I doubt that the RV safety record can ever be brought below the general > >> aviation average, as these are the "sports cars" of the general aviation >> fleet. Pilots fly them for fun and excitement...not just a safe means >> of transportation. >> > > Can't agree with you. When 75% or so of accidends are due to PILOT > ERROR, > that can be fixed. I have perhaps 1300 hours in my 6A and because it > is "sporty" > is not an excuse to do stupid things like fly into weather, over > mountains when the > winds are high, stall turning base or any of the other pilot error > induced accidents. > > We can and should make things better in the RV community. > > Ron Lee > > -- Scott http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ Flying Corben Junior Ace - Building RV-4 Gotta Fly or Gonna Die ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: RV Safety Record
Date: Apr 08, 2008
Maybe I'm taking it all out of context? > > Scott Yes you are. Read the Nall report...perhaps put out by AOPA. It may be that experiemnetals have a higher accident rate than the certified fleet. If so, that is even worse. I reject the notion that we as a community cannot make things better. It will never be a zero accident rate but what exists today is unacceptable. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: Scott <acepilot(at)bloomer.net>
Subject: Re: RV Safety Record
I guess I don't see what is acceptable. What is the accident rate per 100,000 miles in GA experimentals compared to certified GA, commercial aviation and even cars and motorcycles? I might agree that experimentals have a higher rate of accidents than certified, but comparing an RV to a Cessna 150 isn't necessarily indicative of unacceptable accident rate. Ever fly a 150? Most of us would be hard pressed to get into trouble as fast as in an RV simply because things happen faster in an RV. In a 150, if you botch a maneuver, just let go of the yoke and it will probably right itself. They are designed that way on purpose. On the other hand, you don't see many people doing an airshow routine in a 150. What is it, specifically, that appalls you about the experimental accident rate? Scott Ron Lee wrote: > > Maybe I'm taking it all out of context? > >> >> Scott > > > Yes you are. Read the Nall report...perhaps put out by AOPA. > > It may be that experiemnetals have a higher accident rate than the > certified fleet. If so, that is even worse. > > I reject the notion that we as a community cannot make things better. > > It will never be a zero accident rate but what exists today is > unacceptable. > > Ron Lee > > -- Scott http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ Flying Corben Junior Ace - Building RV-4 Gotta Fly or Gonna Die ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: RV Safety Record
Date: Apr 08, 2008
Scott,before I answer this, please read the Nall report. Then go to this website: http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/month.asp Read the RV accident reports for a few years and tell me if you think it is acceptable when perhaps 75% are PREVENTABLE As I mentioned, not everyone would want to make an effort to not kill themself. Some percentage will do something utterly stupid and get killed. If they did not have hull insurance, a family and never took anyone with them I would not worry about it. Ron Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott" <acepilot(at)bloomer.net> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 7:08 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Safety Record > > I guess I don't see what is acceptable. What is the accident rate per > 100,000 miles in GA experimentals compared to certified GA, commercial > aviation and even cars and motorcycles? > > I might agree that experimentals have a higher rate of accidents than > certified, but comparing an RV to a Cessna 150 isn't necessarily > indicative of unacceptable accident rate. Ever fly a 150? Most of us > would be hard pressed to get into trouble as fast as in an RV simply > because things happen faster in an RV. In a 150, if you botch a > maneuver, just let go of the yoke and it will probably right itself. > They are designed that way on purpose. On the other hand, you don't see > many people doing an airshow routine in a 150. > > What is it, specifically, that appalls you about the experimental > accident rate? > > Scott > > > Ron Lee wrote: > >> >> Maybe I'm taking it all out of context? >> >>> >>> Scott >> >> >> Yes you are. Read the Nall report...perhaps put out by AOPA. >> >> It may be that experiemnetals have a higher accident rate than the >> certified fleet. If so, that is even worse. >> >> I reject the notion that we as a community cannot make things better. >> >> It will never be a zero accident rate but what exists today is >> unacceptable. >> >> Ron Lee >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > Scott > http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ > Flying Corben Junior Ace - Building RV-4 > Gotta Fly or Gonna Die > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Subject: Re: RV Safety Record
From: marknlisa(at)hometel.com
Scott wrote: >What is it, specifically, that appalls you about the experimental >accident rate? Scott, >From what position are you arguing? From the tone of your questions and comments it seems you believe nothing should (or can) be done about the accident rates in the experimental community. Simply arguing experimental aircraft are riskier than certified aircraft (so we should EXPECT more accidents?) is a red herring -- and one that leads down a regulatory path we might wish to avoid. For I'll suggest if we, as a community, don't take care of the situation, big brother will do it for us. Now that is truly a scary thought... Further, I'll suggest if inexperienced pilots are flying challenging, high-performance experimental aircraft beyond their skill level, WE (the experimental aviation community) are partly to blame. How many of us personally knows someone in this situation? What have you done about it? Personally, I find ANY (that would be even one -- singular) PREVENTABLE accident APPALLING. I believe what Ron is trying to say is we should, and yes, CAN do more to reduce the number of PREVENTABLE experimental aviation accidents. And we should at least attempt to implement a solution -- one we choose ourselves; one we can live with -- before those-who-know-more-about-flying-than-we-do implements one for us. What so you suppose the FAA-approved training program would look like for an "experimental" private pilot certificate? Better yet, what do you say we just get rid of experimental aviation all together? I mean those aircraft are just too "risky" for ordinary people to be flying... Whether any of us chooses to believe it or not, we have already started down that path. In another post yesterday RICHARD MILLER said, "Fly (sic) is a privilege not a right." If what Rick says is true, flying is not a right but a privilege, who grants the privilege? How long before it becomes a "privilege" for which we must get permission to take a walk thru a National Forest, or build a house on our own property, or own a handgun to protect our loved ones and property? Oops, too late... I wonder what Orville and Wilbur would have said about the "privilege" to fly? Our Government is already far more involved in our personal lives than it should be. The only way to prevent further incursions into our personal FREEDOM to enjoy experimental, recreational aviation is to prove to the wider, non-flying community we are professional enough to police ourselves. I, for one, agree with Ron; we should, and can, do something about reducing the number of PREVENTABLE accidents. As our representative organization, EAA is the right place to start. If you think we should be doing more to police ourselves, send EAA the message accident prevention should be its number one priority. Regards, Mark Sletten Lancair Legacy FG P.S. Now Ron, about those fiberglass airplanes... ;-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: RV Safety Record
Date: Apr 09, 2008
> P.S. Now Ron, about those fiberglass airplanes... ;-) Nothing wrong with fiberglass airplanes...as long as they don't hit RVs. This is not bashing fiberglass airplanes since they are perhaps the highest performance (say cruise speed) aircraft around. That accident in Florida I think was one of the worst GA accidents I have every seen. I don't know if it was preventable. Most likely it was and it was a matter of a chain of events that ultimately resulted in three deaths. Hopefully the NTSB analysis will provide clear information on why a go-around that may have been attempted went so wrong. We had two people die in an RV crash last year I think near Denver. I have not seen a final report but getting too slow in the pattern is a possible factor. I have taken multiple AOPA on-line courses. The weather one is very educational for people who might choose to use weather info to skirt between building storm cells. Folks who are not trained in mountain flying are well advised to get such training or take the AOPA mountain flying course. We lost an RV somewhere in southern NM or Texas not long ago. The reported winds in that area of mountains was reported to be very high (60 knots?). I know enough to avoid mountain flying in those conditions. So I see a possible RV safety course as having two main components. The first is education and that can be largely handled using the AOPA online courses. The second...and hardest... is trying to fix the "judgment" part of the equation. It does not help for me to know that high winds in the mountains can cause bad updrafts/downdrafts/turbulence then continue a trip in those conditions just to get home. You have to be willing to say "this is unacceptable" and land (or not start a flight) even if it means you have to pay for a hotel, lose a day of work, etc. This part would probably have to be in a group setting to exchange ideas. Apparently Cirrus has a good safety program. Based on some of their accidents, I see the same sort of education/judgment problems that affect the entire GA community. Perhaps things can be "borrowed" from them. This is not rocket science. We don't have to have more fatalities from flying into bad weather to learn that it is a bad idea. We just have to reinforce the underlying knowledge part and improve on the judgment part to start reducing accidents. BTW, flying is a right and I have seen someone post something from a FAA or similar document to taht effect. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: Dave Nellis <truflite(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV Safety Record
The Airbus accident was caused by the autoland mode of the aircraft. It was being used to make an approach and then the landing was to be aborted. The autoland mode did not disengage the throttles when the pilot moved the yoke to disengage autoland. Throttle increase was minimal when the pilot firewalled the throttles for the go around. The rest is history. Dave nellis --- Scott wrote: > > > Clarify. Are you saying RV pilots account for a > major portion of pilot > error accidents compared to pilots of all other > experimental airplanes? > I guess that COULD be true since I suspect that a > majority of > experimental aircraft are RVs. How many RVs are > flying now? 5000? > That's more than Cessna made of models 120, 140 and > probably 170 as > well. Also, if you go through NTSB crash reports of > commercial > aircraft, pilot error is often cited as cause or at > least a contributing > factor. Humans make mistakes. Period. Take the > pilot out of the > equation and put a "perfect" computer in his/her > place. Oops, forget > that. Airbus tried that. Remember the Paris Air > Show when the computer > landed the Airbus in the woods? > > I don't think RV pilots have the market cornered on > doing things to get > themselves into trouble. A lot of GA accidents deal > with VFR flight > into IFR conditions. Yes, poor decision making > perhaps, but I feel > slighted that you think RV pilots are the only ones > dumb enough to do > stuff like that... > > Maybe I'm taking it all out of context? > > Scott > > > Ron Lee wrote: > > > > > > I doubt that the RV safety record can ever be > brought below the general > > > >> aviation average, as these are the "sports cars" > of the general aviation > >> fleet. Pilots fly them for fun and > excitement...not just a safe means > >> of transportation. > >> > > > > Can't agree with you. When 75% or so of accidends > are due to PILOT > > ERROR, > > that can be fixed. I have perhaps 1300 hours in > my 6A and because it > > is "sporty" > > is not an excuse to do stupid things like fly into > weather, over > > mountains when the > > winds are high, stall turning base or any of the > other pilot error > > induced accidents. > > > > We can and should make things better in the RV > community. > > > > Ron Lee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Scott > http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ > Flying Corben Junior Ace - Building RV-4 > Gotta Fly or Gonna Die > > > > browse > Un/Subscription, > FAQ, > > Forums! > > Admin. > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: RV Safey Record
Date: Apr 09, 2008
WARNING: YET ANOTHER AEROBUBBA SAFETY RANT FOLLOWS! SAVE YOURSELF! HIT DELETE WHILE YOU STILL CAN! ;-) Wow. I'll start with the easiest one: >Take the pilot out of the > equation and put a "perfect" computer in his/her place. Oops, forget > that. Airbus tried that. Remember the Paris Air Show when the computer > landed the Airbus in the woods? Well, I remember the Airbus landing in the woods, but in that case all seven redundant flight control computers, as well as the autothrottle computers, were doing precisely what the pilot told them to do. He was doing (trying to do?) something the plane was never intended to do, and the situation got away from him and bit him in the butt. Also, there have been multiple cases where third world operators have gotten into trouble with 'busses because they didn't know how to do what they were trying to do, and the situation got out of hand. Proper training and understanding would have prevented 100% of them. >Also, if you go through NTSB crash reports of commercial > aircraft, pilot error is often cited as cause or at least a contributing > factor True. The biggest improvement in air carrier safety occurred through the late fifties and early sixties. This was due to the conversion to turbine engines eliminating the reliability issues associated with recips. With mechanical failures drastically reduced, pilot error became a greater percentage of accident causation. This lead to a refocusing of accident prevention to the pilots. Here in GA we still fly recips by and large, and all the safety training that is now mandatory for 121 is strictly voluntary, where available, in GA. A while back we had the fatal accident in LEX. The next one prior, IIRC, was LIT. That's 2 fatals in 3 or 5 years. GA had 216 fatals in 2006. To say that a fatal error by air carrier crews every couple years is adequate reason to not lift a finger to help prevent 200+ of our friends from killing themselves each year is... well, plug in your own adjective. > Humans make mistakes. Uh, Yeah... >Period. NO! To use a gross example, I knew a couple of guys that thought pretty highly of their skillsets. They knew other mere mortals flew aerobatics, and as dedicated macho-stud muffins they just knew they were acro pilots as well. They just hadn't had the opportunity to demonstrate it. So, they got in a plane, got it up to cruise, and cranked in full aileron expecting to get a roll. Of course, what they got was a split S. After having regained their composure, they decided to try it in a lesser performing aircraft. Guess what? Same input, same results. And these guys were both ATPs. Now, people roll planes beautifully every day. What's the difference? Training. Every day our brothers and sisters are out there doing things they've never done before without getting any training. Usually they survive, and frequently they don't even break a sweat. Sometimes they die. As individuals we don't know what we don't know. Sometimes we learn the depth and breadth of our ignorance a bit too late. > A lot of GA accidents deal with VFR flight > into IFR conditions. That used to be the leading cause. Now the loss leader is called 'maneuvering flight'. It is the leading killer in all of GA, and has an especially large lead in killing homebuilders. People are getting in over their heads, 'just flying around'. And you'd never guess the second most fatal phase of flight for homebuilts - Take off and climb. Take off and climb? How do you kill yourself taking off? By not being prepared for the unexpected. The first 10 hours of a homebuilt's life are it's most dangerous, and especially the very first flight. Statistically, this is where you are most likely to get bitten. Also, some other data points / risk factors about those most likely to be killed: Private pilot, less than 500 TT, less than 100 time in type, SE fixed gear, and engine/prop failure. Now, how many of those risk factors apply to the average guy making the first flight in his RV? > I don't think RV pilots have the market cornered on doing things to get > themselves into trouble. Yes, poor decision making perhaps, but I feel > slighted that you think RV pilots are the only ones dumb enough to do > stuff like that... I surely hope you aren't suggesting that because people die in glassairs, kitfoxes, or whatever, it's okay to kill yourself in an RV. As to the original poster addressing OUR safety record, well, WE are the audience on this list. Hopefully there are folks making similar efforts to police the ranks of the glassair and kitfox lists as well. The only downside to this effort is that the poster is, de facto, preaching to the choir. The people we need to be most concerned about don't participate in fora where they might learn something. Food for thought: Skydiving was unregulated until enough people exercised enough bad judgement to bring sufficient attention to the activity in the public eye to cause restrictive regulations to be enacted. Ditto ultralights. Do we want to 'mind our own business' while others wreck it for us, or do we want to lead by example? glen matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: bert murillo <robertrv607(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Accident one fatal
Hi: The accident in Polk City, Fla. was a Zenith aircraft. No details of cause.. Also a recent incident of an RV I believe was an rv8...Emergency Landing, in Deland.. pilot no injured, plane serious damage,, Landed on ravine close to runway 05..this is what I was told by a pilot, who was at the scene/ Talking about safety, on rv's would be nice to have a report of the last three years or so.. Maybe the FAA shows that? I am affraid, General Aviation Continues to be at the bottom, when it comes to safety record.... I have some ideas, one is very poor training, and not taken recurrent reviews etc... I know this to be a fact, some of these guys, have the mind, that no one is goint to tell me what to do.... I do what I want etc.... The other things I feel is cause of such record, is so increadible, for most people, I do not want to even mention it...I would be a laghin stock the least... I wish such experiment could be done.... If we approach our aircraft and our flying seriously would be a good step forward...this comments that people fly rv's like sport cars,, right there is a big problem....an aiplane is not a car period... I =do not fly my Rv just for fun....I really use it to go from point A to point B...travelling is the ultimate goal..just..punching holes in the sky does this will improve your flying skills?/ Any how, lets prove that Rv pilots are alittle better than the rest of general aviation....would not be great, if for 2008 there will not be a single accident?? See you at Sun and Fun Robert rv6a do nbot archive __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "WILLIAM AGSTER" <BAGSTERJR(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Accident one fatal
Date: Apr 09, 2008
http://www.rvproject.com/ntsb.html> Bert, check out the above link from Dan Checkoway's website. It contains accident info for RV's only and is updated daily. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: bert murillo<mailto:robertrv607(at)yahoo.com> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 2:40 PM Subject: RV-List: Accident one fatal > Hi: The accident in Polk City, Fla. was a Zenith aircraft. No details of cause.. Also a recent incident of an RV I believe was an rv8...Emergency Landing, in Deland.. pilot no injured, plane serious damage,, Landed on ravine close to runway 05..this is what I was told by a pilot, who was at the scene/ Talking about safety, on rv's would be nice to have a report of the last three years or so.. Maybe the FAA shows that? I am affraid, General Aviation Continues to be at the bottom, when it comes to safety record.... I have some ideas, one is very poor training, and not taken recurrent reviews etc... I know this to be a fact, some of these guys, have the mind, that no one is goint to tell me what to do.... I do what I want etc.... The other things I feel is cause of such record, is so increadible, for most people, I do not want to even mention it...I would be a laghin stock the least... I wish such experiment could be done.... If we approach our aircraft and our flying seriously would be a good step forward...this comments that people fly rv's like sport cars,, right there is a big problem....an aiplane is not a car period... I =do not fly my Rv just for fun....I really use it to go from point A to point B...travelling is the ultimate goal..just..punching holes in the sky does this will improve your flying skills?/ Any how, lets prove that Rv pilots are alittle better than the rest of general aviation....would not be great, if for 2008 there will not be a single accident?? See you at Sun and Fun Robert rv6a do nbot archive __________________________________________________ http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ator?RV-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "smoothweasel(at)juno.com" <smoothweasel(at)juno.com>
Date: Apr 10, 2008
Subject: Re: RV7A OVERHEATING
Just an Update.... We have the rv-7a cooling better and flying at Van's published speeds... finally. When i say better thats what i mean its still to be improved on but we c an manage now. We found that the air outlet was just to restricted.(training wheel brac ket, assembly, mess, junk ect.) We intalled 2 "Louvers" under the lower cowl and let more air out of the bottom of the cowl. Also made sure ther e was no air bypassing the baffle via intake ramps. Thanks for all the ideas. Weasel RV-4 (no training wheel required) _____________________________________________________________ Compete with the big boys. Click here to find products to benefit your business. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iifXQ9b9RaSW9VPV5ZiYu9g kmkbrNxuYPwTjLMVfMbfRiv4h1/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: RV7A OVERHEATING
Date: Apr 09, 2008
I got about a 10 degree drop with the louvers and also with opening the cowl a bit. Last night I saw that Avery Tools sells the louvers. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: RV7A OVERHEATING
Date: Apr 09, 2008
On 10 Apr 2008, at 00:09, smoothweasel(at)juno.com wrote: > Just an Update.... > > We have the rv-7a cooling better and flying at Van's published > speeds...finally. > > When i say better thats what i mean its still to be improved on but > we can manage now. > > We found that the air outlet was just to restricted.(training wheel > bracket, assembly, mess, junk ect.) We intalled 2 "Louvers" under > the lower cowl and let more air out of the bottom of the cowl. Also > made sure there was no air bypassing the baffle via intake ramps. > Congratulations. At the start, you were unhappy with both the high engine temperatures and the low TAS. Now you have managed to improve both the cooling and the speed. How much has the speed increased, and what changes did you make that affected the speed? -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (FInal Assembly) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2008
Subject: Re: RV Safety Record
From: marknlisa(at)hometel.com
Scott said: > I'm really getting tired of this thread. Yes, most accidents are > preventable. But I just don't see where experimentals need to be taking > the rap alone. I've been flying since I was 15, so thats coming up on > 30 years now. Never scratched the paint on an airplane yet, so I'd say > I'm pretty careful. The majority of my time is in taildraggers without > electrical systems so I've propped more airplanes than I've used a > starter. What more can I do to be safe since, thus far, I haven't > contributed to the dismal accident rate? Scott, It is unfortunate you feel unable to engage in a meaningful discussion about this topic -- I'm sorry if I've said something to offend you. It appears from your quote above you are taking all these comments personally, as if people are saying YOU are unsafe. I don't know you, so I can't comment on your personal flying habits, airmanship or professionalism. >From my perspective, the majority of comments are directed at the experimental aviation community as a whole -- not you personally Scott. The suggestion to read the Nall report and peruse the accident reports is simply a means to prove what all of us already knows -- the accident rate in the experimental aviation community is higher than that of the larger GA community. Granted, some of us are much better at assessing and mitigating risk. If your flying history matches your claims, you would appear to fall into that category. My position can best be summed up by a question: What do you do with those 30 years of experience besides keep yourself safe? I say we, as a segment of the flying community with a common interest, have a duty to do what we can address an APPALLING situation -- the fact that we experience PREVENTABLE accidents at a higher rate than the rest of the GA community. I say, rather than ignoring our brothers and sisters who suffer an apparent lack of skill and judgment, rather than assuming there will always be idiots among us who kill themselves, let's assume we CAN, as individuals, make a difference and DO something. Scott, I'm not trying to "win" an argument with you. In fact, I'm deeply troubled by the possibility something I've said may have made you want to retreat farther from getting involved, especially since you seem to have so much to offer. You've been doing something right for the past 30 years, how can we use what you've learned to help those who so desperately need it? Please think about what I've said and consider remaining engaged. At the risk sounding like a broken record, I urge each of you who even remotely believes in what I'm saying to contact EAA and make your voice heard. EAA is our representative organization. It is large and organized. As such, it has the resources to make an impact. If there is any chance of developing and implementing a program that can improve our accident record it will start with EAA. Regards, Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2008
From: "Joshua Siler" <joshua.siler(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV Safety Record
Hi all. Kind of off-topic to this thread but certainly on topic for the question of safety... I was surfing reddit.com today and randomly found a link with a picture of an RV mid somersault with it's prop in the dirt. Does anyone know the story behind this picture? http://img.funtasticus.org/2008/apr/moment1948/moment047.jpg Josh On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 5:23 AM, wrote: > > Scott said: > > > I'm really getting tired of this thread. Yes, most accidents are > > preventable. But I just don't see where experimentals need to be taking > > the rap alone. I've been flying since I was 15, so thats coming up on > > 30 years now. Never scratched the paint on an airplane yet, so I'd say > > I'm pretty careful. The majority of my time is in taildraggers without > > electrical systems so I've propped more airplanes than I've used a > > starter. What more can I do to be safe since, thus far, I haven't > > contributed to the dismal accident rate? > > Scott, > > It is unfortunate you feel unable to engage in a meaningful discussion > about this topic -- I'm sorry if I've said something to offend you. > > It appears from your quote above you are taking all these comments > personally, as if people are saying YOU are unsafe. I don't know you, so I > can't comment on your personal flying habits, airmanship or professionalism. > > >From my perspective, the majority of comments are directed at the > experimental aviation community as a whole -- not you personally Scott. The > suggestion to read the Nall report and peruse the accident reports is simply > a means to prove what all of us already knows -- the accident rate in the > experimental aviation community is higher than that of the larger GA > community. > > Granted, some of us are much better at assessing and mitigating risk. If > your flying history matches your claims, you would appear to fall into that > category. My position can best be summed up by a question: What do you do > with those 30 years of experience besides keep yourself safe? > > I say we, as a segment of the flying community with a common interest, > have a duty to do what we can address an APPALLING situation -- the fact > that we experience PREVENTABLE accidents at a higher rate than the rest of > the GA community. > > I say, rather than ignoring our brothers and sisters who suffer an > apparent lack of skill and judgment, rather than assuming there will always > be idiots among us who kill themselves, let's assume we CAN, as individuals, > make a difference and DO something. > > Scott, I'm not trying to "win" an argument with you. In fact, I'm deeply > troubled by the possibility something I've said may have made you want to > retreat farther from getting involved, especially since you seem to have so > much to offer. You've been doing something right for the past 30 years, how > can we use what you've learned to help those who so desperately need it? > Please think about what I've said and consider remaining engaged. > > At the risk sounding like a broken record, I urge each of you who even > remotely believes in what I'm saying to contact EAA and make your voice > heard. EAA is our representative organization. It is large and organized. As > such, it has the resources to make an impact. If there is any chance of > developing and implementing a program that can improve our accident record > it will start with EAA. > > Regards, > > Mark > > -- Joshua Siler 503-819-8919 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bruno <rv4(at)videotron.ca>
Subject: RV SAFETY RECORD ( AIRBUS)
Date: Apr 10, 2008
Oops, forget > that. Airbus tried that. Remember the Paris Air > Show when the computer > landed the Airbus in the woods? ------------------------------------------------------ By the way the accident didn't happen at the Paris Airshow but in Mulhose. The computers did not land the A/C in the woods, the pilots did. That what happen when pilots want to be ''Hot Dogs'' ( Two Check Airmen on top of that ).Pull the circuit breakers to disengage the computers, end up in Direct Law ( no stall protection among others) and you have a perfectly serviceable aircraft in the woods. After 2000 hrs + on A-320, I learned that the Airbuses are fantastic aircrafts if flown the way they are supposed to be, like any other a/c. The pilots (Captain) was charged with manslaughter but the case is still in court on appeal.. Bruno Dionne RV-4 (Flying) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: RV Safety Record
Date: Apr 10, 2008
I believe that was in England. I never heard what caused the flip. Ron Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Siler To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:17 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV Safety Record Hi all. Kind of off-topic to this thread but certainly on topic for the question of safety... I was surfing reddit.com today and randomly found a link with a picture of an RV mid somersault with it's prop in the dirt. Does anyone know the story behind this picture? http://img.funtasticus.org/2008/apr/moment1948/moment047.jpg Josh ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2008
From: John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com>
Subject: Re: RV Safety Record
There is a whole sequence of shots for this event. It occurred at a fly-in in the UK. I don't have a link handy, but the discussion centered around the nose gear issue on the RV-A models. john Joshua Siler wrote: > Hi all. Kind of off-topic to this thread but certainly on topic for > the question of safety... I was surfing reddit.com <http://reddit.com> > today and randomly found a link with a picture of an RV mid somersault > with it's prop in the dirt. Does anyone know the story behind this > picture? > > http://img.funtasticus.org/2008/apr/moment1948/moment047.jpg > > Josh > > On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 5:23 AM, > wrote: > > > > Scott > said: > > > I'm really getting tired of this thread. Yes, most accidents are > > preventable. But I just don't see where experimentals need to > be taking > > the rap alone. I've been flying since I was 15, so thats coming > up on > > 30 years now. Never scratched the paint on an airplane yet, so > I'd say > > I'm pretty careful. The majority of my time is in taildraggers > without > > electrical systems so I've propped more airplanes than I've used a > > starter. What more can I do to be safe since, thus far, I haven't > > contributed to the dismal accident rate? > > Scott, > > It is unfortunate you feel unable to engage in a meaningful > discussion about this topic -- I'm sorry if I've said something to > offend you. > > It appears from your quote above you are taking all these comments > personally, as if people are saying YOU are unsafe. I don't know > you, so I can't comment on your personal flying habits, airmanship > or professionalism. > > >From my perspective, the majority of comments are directed at the > experimental aviation community as a whole -- not you personally > Scott. The suggestion to read the Nall report and peruse the > accident reports is simply a means to prove what all of us already > knows -- the accident rate in the experimental aviation community > is higher than that of the larger GA community. > > Granted, some of us are much better at assessing and mitigating > risk. If your flying history matches your claims, you would appear > to fall into that category. My position can best be summed up by a > question: What do you do with those 30 years of experience besides > keep yourself safe? > > I say we, as a segment of the flying community with a common > interest, have a duty to do what we can address an APPALLING > situation -- the fact that we experience PREVENTABLE accidents at > a higher rate than the rest of the GA community. > > I say, rather than ignoring our brothers and sisters who suffer an > apparent lack of skill and judgment, rather than assuming there > will always be idiots among us who kill themselves, let's assume > we CAN, as individuals, make a difference and DO something. > > Scott, I'm not trying to "win" an argument with you. In fact, I'm > deeply troubled by the possibility something I've said may have > made you want to retreat farther from getting involved, especially > since you seem to have so much to offer. You've been doing > something right for the past 30 years, how can we use what you've > learned to help those who so desperately need it? Please think > about what I've said and consider remaining engaged. > > At the risk sounding like a broken record, I urge each of you who > even remotely believes in what I'm saying to contact EAA and make > your voice heard. EAA is our representative organization. It is > large and organized. As such, it has the resources to make an > impact. If there is any chance of developing and implementing a > program that can improve our accident record it will start with EAA. > > Regards, > > Mark > > > -- > Joshua Siler > 503-819-8919 > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: RV Safety Record
Date: Apr 10, 2008
As one who has contributed to the accident stats I have a unique, if unwanted, perspective of some simple things we can all do. I got a lot of help in double checking the plane and adding extra padding to the glareshield. One person though told me afterward that he had noticed black smoke during my earlier engine starts but didn't say anything. I wish he had. In talking to Don at AFP it was not the cause but it might have caused me to step back and run more tests. I also wish someone would have suggested waiting until morning rather than launching on a 104 degree afternoon. I thought I was pretty well prepared for my flight but there is always something more and others' perspectives and observations are valuable. I don't know if it would have changed the outcome but knowing there was a path not taken is one of the few things that continues to bug me. Maybe just a hint is all it takes for someone to rethink their actions and choose a different path. I used to be quiet like most. Not any more. I've called the tower when I thought certain controllers were unsafe. I tell friends (and strangers) when I see something wearing, when their engine just doesn't sound right or just when something strikes me as off but I don't know why. I've even nagged them when they didn't take action I thought they should. I'll weigh in with an opinion on their judgment calls. So far no one's objected and most are appreciative of another viewpoint regardless of what they decide to do. I view my own judgment calls in a different light as well but I'm not immune so I hope others will do the same for me. Think of what your reaction would be after something happens. If you think you'd regret not having done or said something then do it up front. Regards, Greg Young > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > marknlisa(at)hometel.com > Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 7:23 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Re: RV Safety Record > > > Scott said: > > > I say, rather than ignoring our brothers and sisters who > suffer an apparent lack of skill and judgment, rather than > assuming there will always be idiots among us who kill > themselves, let's assume we CAN, as individuals, make a > difference and DO something. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JFLEISC(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 10, 2008
Subject: Re: RV7A OVERHEATING
In a message dated 4/9/2008 9:07:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, khorton01(at)rogers.com writes: Congratulations. At the start, you were unhappy with both the high engine temperatures and the low TAS. Now you have managed to improve both the cooling and the speed. How much has the speed increased, and what changes did you make that affected the speed? 10 years of operating air cooled engines on a dynamometer has taught me that increases in cooling increases volumetric efficiency, thus more power (astounding differences some times). Could be it. Jim (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: RV7A OVERHEATING
Date: Apr 10, 2008
On 10 Apr 2008, at 18:39, JFLEISC(at)aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/9/2008 9:07:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > khorton01(at)rogers.com writes: > Congratulations. > > At the start, you were unhappy with both the high engine > temperatures and the low TAS. Now you have managed to improve both > the cooling and the speed. How much has the speed increased, and > what changes did you make that affected the speed? > 10 years of operating air cooled engines on a dynamometer has > taught me that increases in cooling increases volumetric > efficiency, thus more power (astounding differences some times). > Could be it. Interesting. Do you mean that you actually measured an increase in the volume of air being inducted, or are you inferring the increase in volumetric efficiency from a measured increase in power? -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (FInal Assembly) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JFLEISC(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 10, 2008
Subject: Re: RV7A OVERHEATING
In a message dated 4/10/2008 7:47:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, khorton01(at)rogers.com writes: Congratulations. At the start, you were unhappy with both the high engine temperatures and the low TAS. Now you have managed to improve both the cooling and the speed. How much has the speed increased, and what changes did you make that affected the speed? 10 years of operating air cooled engines on a dynamometer has taught me that increases in cooling increases volumetric efficiency, thus more power (astounding differences some times). Could be it. Interesting. Do you mean that you actually measured an increase in the volume of air being inducted, or are you inferring the increase in volumetric efficiency from a measured increase in power? Absolute measured increase in power. Think about it; You can fit more air in a cold box than a hot one of the same size. Bolye's law. Jim (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Used RV buying best practices?
From: "panhandler1956" <panhandler1956(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 10, 2008
Good idea Tedd. I added a couple of points to the wiki: vans service bulletins and sloshed fuel tanks -------- Brent O. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176026#176026 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eric Parlow <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Price Reduced: RV-10 Project For Sale
Date: Apr 10, 2008
RV-10 project for sale.REDUCED TO $99,900 FOR QUICK SALE! See add in Barnstormers.com and Trade-A-PlaneIncludes all materials to comp lete a flying plane except engine & prop. Full Garmin WAAS IFR instrument p ackage. GNS430W, SL30, GTX327, GI-106A, PMA800SR, LifeSaver 4300 AI, CO Mon itor, BMA EFISone w/ Autopilot and Powerboard. Rudder tim w/ position displ ay for trims and flaps. ELO Touchscreen monitor w/ switch to display EFIS o r computer to Co-pilot. All Van's kits including FWF. Accuracy Avionics ove rhead console and window trim rings. All systems installed including dual b attery Z-14 FADEC based electrical systems. CAD drawings of all system sche matics. To finish it needs: engine, prop, interior, paint, ~1000 hours labo r. Engine $39,200 (Vans)Prop $6,510 (Vans)Interior $3,182 (Flightline)Paint ~$ 8,000 (?) Total ~$56,892 to finish A flying full IFR RV-10 for $156,792! A few photos attached. ERic--(828) 777-7976Williamsport, PA panel4 (Medium).jpg Transfer 12-25-06 192 (Medium).jpg Transfer 1-30-07 048 (Small).jpg Transfer 2-5-07 033 (Small).jpg Transfer 2-5-07 034 (Small).jpg Transfer 3-27-08 120 (Small).jpg Transfer 3-27-08 121 (Small).jpg Transfer 3-27-08 131 (Small).jpg Transfer 3-27-08 134 (Small).jpg Transfer 3-27-08 138 (Small).jpg Transfer 3-27-08 146 (Small).jpg Transfer 3-27-08 150 (Small).jpg Transfer 3-27-08 170 (Small).jpg Transfer 3-27-08 194 (Small).jpg Transfer 3-27-08 207 (Small).jpg Transfer 3-27-08 213 (Small).jpg Transfer 3-27-08 214 (Small).jpg Transfer 3-27-08 217 (Small).jpg Transfer 3-27-08 221 (Small).jpg Transfer 3-27-08 223 (Small).jpg Transfer 3-27-08 224 (Small).jpg Transfer 3-27-08 226 (Small).jpg Transfer 3-27-08 228 (Small).jpg Transfer 3-27-08 229 (Small).jpg Transfer 3-27-08 230 (Small).jpg Transfer 3-27-08 231 (Small).jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: RV Safety Record
Date: Apr 11, 2008
This is from the Air Safety Foundation, as quoted in this morning's Propwash newsletter about General Aviation accidents: ASF notes that "...Back in 1950, the total accident rate was 46.68 accidents per 100,000 flight hours (the 100,000-hour measure being the statistical standard); the fatal accident rate was 5.17 per 100,000 flight hours. Today, both those numbers have plunged dramatically-7.05 and 1.26 per 100,000 hours, respectively. Those represent 85-percent and 76-percent drops. Fifty years ago, newspapers and accident reports were replete with stories of fatal buzzing accidents, hundreds of fatal forays by VFR-only pilots into instrument weather, and scads of fatal stall-spin accidents. These sorts of accidents still plague us now, but what a difference 50 years has made." Of course these are not RV accidents, but I think the overall trend is undeniable and RVs are a part of that trend. AOPA's Air Safety Foundation is an excellent source of information to keep this trend going. What's an "acceptable" rate? That's a pretty difficult question to answer if you are talking about everyone else out there; difficult enough to become almost meaningless and not really helpful. For me and those I love, the rate is zero. I don't want to lose any more friends in airplane accidents, or motorcycle accidents, or auto accidents or drug overdoses and jealous husbands shotguns. Let's say we wanted to be as safe as the airlines. OK, first we all need to be flying IFR with at least two engines and two pilots and multiple backups to everything critical. We aren't flying RVs anymore; in fact we aren't even general aviation anymore. How many of us could afford even the simulator hours to stay current to airlines level? We need to recognize that what we love to do is inherently more risky than many other activities or means of transportation, and take the steps necessary to bring that risk down to a level that we are comfortable with. If that level is zero we need to stay under the bed and hope to die soon of natural causes. Terry -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:36 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Safety Record Scott,before I answer this, please read the Nall report. Then go to this website: http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/month.asp Read the RV accident reports for a few years and tell me if you think it is acceptable when perhaps 75% are PREVENTABLE As I mentioned, not everyone would want to make an effort to not kill themself. Some percentage will do something utterly stupid and get killed. If they did not have hull insurance, a family and never took anyone with them I would not worry about it. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: RV6-A for sale
Date: Apr 11, 2008
If you are looking for a well built and finely finished RV6-A or you know someone who is, mine will sometime soon be advertized for sale. For sale by builder: TT 50 Hr. Aerosport-Power O-360-A1A 50 Hr. Hartzell C/S prop -50 Hr. Oil filter Aeroelectric connection Z-11 based wiring 1 Slick mag 1 electronic ign. 55 Amp. Nippon Denzo alternator Automotive geared starter with extra new spare starter Navaid wing leveler (accepts handheld GPS waypoints) Altitude hold Dynon EFIS D10-A +battery and remote compass module Analog, airspeed, altitude,fuel gauges Sirs compass Rocky mountain Instruments uMonitor & uEncoder also with remote compass module SL-40 com - SL-70 Xponder PM-3000 stereo intercom Electric flaps Elevator and aileron trims on left stick Sliding canopy Professionally upholstered Conforfoam seats Removable control panel with removable instrument section. Custom built aluminium floors. Nose wheel fork mod done. Professionally painted yellow (very visible), add decor (stripes etc.) per taste Many painstaking hours spent on rigging, fit and finish. First annual coming up. I have yet to put up a website, If you are interested in further information I will send requested info and photos. Asking $95000.00 Jim in Kelowna B.C. Contact: jjewell AT telus.net Ph- (250) 861-8706 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rsipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV Safety Record
Date: Apr 11, 2008
What would be interesting to know is how our own RV community safety record measures up to the other groups tracked. This would require an estimate of annual RV hours flown to then come up with the typical accidents per 100,000 hour statistics. I guess you would have to deduct our assumed hours and accidents from the experimental universe and GA universe. It would take someone versed in good statistical analysis and familiar with how the FAA and NTSB estimates hours for the GA fleet to make the comparisions valid. Many years ago I wrote a safety article for the EAA magazine. When we discussed the article EAA said they had to walk a fine line on the subject. Apparently they had tried some articles with the safety theme, (accident analysis etc.) which generated complaints. The articles were prompting questions from members families questioning the safety of their hobby. I am fairly certain our RV record is showing good improvement as is all of the GA community. Perhaps it is time for a serious analysis to tell the good story and give us some reasonable goals based on good numbers. A good and improving record would have to be a good thing for all of us. It would be interesting to know what the insurance companies think our record is. Dick Sipp RV4 sold RV10 N110DV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Danielson" <Jdaniel343(at)bresnan.net>
Subject: Tools for Sale
Date: Apr 11, 2008
Hi all RV list members, I am in the process of cleaning out the hanger and I don't have need for tools I built my RV with. So I am giving the list members first chance. I would like to sell the tools as a package to a new builder, but will consider parting out. Below is a list of the tools for sale. Please e-mail me off the List with any questions you may have. Jdaniel343(at)bresnan.net John Danielson Casper, WY Tools are in very good condition. TAYLOR 3X RIVET GUN (ALMOST NEW) $70.00 5X CLECO RIVET GUN (USES STD RIVET SETS) $50.00 BEHIVE SPRING $1.00 QUICK SHANGE SPRING $1.00 PNEUMATIC RIVET SQUEEZER $275.00 ADJUSTABLE RIVET SET FOR PNEUMATIC SQUEEZER $30.00 3" SQUEEZER YOKE $75.00 1/4" SOUIX PALM DRILL (3600RPM) $150.00 3/8" FLORIDA PNUEMATIC DRILL $50.00 RIGHT ANGLE PNEUMATIC DRILL (THREADED BITS) $100.00 PNUEMATIC DIE GRINDER $15.00 AIR TOOL REGULATORS $2.00 22" C-FRAME HAND RIVET AND DIMPLING TOOL $80.00 3/8" STEEL BACK RIVET PLATE $20.00 PNEUMATIC POP RIVET PULLER $30.00 SHOP HEAD RIVET GUAGE SET (4) $3.00 RIVET LENGTH GUAGE $2.00 FLUTING PLIER $15.00 FLUSH SWIVEL RIVET SET $10.00 BACK RIVET SET $5.00 COUNTER SINK CAGE AND CUTTER $20.00 12" FLEXIBLE STEEL RULER $2.00 V-GROOVE DEBURRING TOOL $2.00 RIVET SPACING FAN $10.00 ASSORTED BUCKING BARS (5) $40.00 "OOPS" HOLE SAVER RIVET KIT $15.00 #40 THREADED DRILL BITS (4) $5.00 #30 THREADED DRILL BITS (4) $5.00 ASSORTED THREADED DRILL BITS $10.00 ASSORTED STEP DRILLS (3) $25.00 #40 DRILL BITS (4) $2.00 #30 DRILL BITS (4) $2.00 #40 6" DRILL BIT $2.00 #30 6" DRILL BIT $2.00 #40 12" DRILL BIT $2.00 #30 12" DRILL BIT $2.00 RIGHT AVIATION TIN SNIP $12.00 LEFT AVIATION TIN SNIP $12.00 STRAIGHT TIN SNIP $12.00 ADEL HAND NIBBLING TOOL $7.00 CUT-OFF WHEELS / 3 PACK $3.00 CUT-OFF WHEEL MANDREL $2.00 3" VISE GRIP HAND SEAMER $12.00 METAL SHRINKER / STRETCHER $150.00 EDGE ROLLING TOOL $5.00 1/8" TUBING FLARING TOOL $10.00 PARKER 37 ROLO-FLAIR FLAIRING TOOL $50.00 TUBING BENDER 3/16", 1/4", 3/8" $5.00 1/8" CLOSE QUARTER POP RIVET DIE SET $2.00 3/32" CLOSE QUARTER POP RIVET DIE SET $2.00 3/32" DIMPLE DIES $15.00 1/8" DIMPLE DIES $15.00 #4 SCREW DIMPLE DIE SET $15.00 #6 SCREW DIMPLE DIE SET $15.00 #8 SCREW DIMPLE DIE SET $15.00 #10 SCREW DIMPLE DIE SET $15.00 3/32" UNIVERASAL CUP DIMPLE DIE $5.00 1/8" UNIVERSAL CUP DIMPLE DIE $5.00 5/32" UNIVERSAL CUP DIMPLE DIE $5.00 3/16" UNIVERSAL CUP DIMPLE DIE $5.00 WOOD DIMPLE DIE HOLER $2.00 8 PIECE FLAT SQUEZER SET $15.00 3/32" CUP RIVET SET $3.00 1/8" CUP RIVET SET $3.00 5/32" CUP RIVET SET $3.00 3/16" CUP RIVET SET $3.00 3/32" CUP OFFSET RIVET SET $3.00 1/8" CUP OFFSET RIVET SET $3.00 5/32" CUP OFFSET RIVET SET $3.00 3/16" CUP OFFSET RIVET SET $3.00 RIVET CUTTER $18.00 5 PC ASSORTED FILES $15.00 4 PC DRILL STOP SET $5.00 CLECO PLIERS (2) $5.00 3/32" CLECOS (100) $25.00 1/8" CLECOS (100) $25.00 5/32" CLECOS (100) $25.00 3/16" C;ECOS (20) $5.00 1/4" CLECOS (20) $5.00 1/2" CLECO CLAMPS (10) $20.00 1" CLECO CLAMPS (10) $20.00 $1,733.00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2008
From: Jake Crause <jakecrause(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV Safety Record
>>>>>Flying is a privilege not a right.<<<< Why do people keep saying that? I see that sentiment often on several different forums. The attitude seems to be that the government is doing us a favor by "allowing" us to fly. Last I checked, government serves us, not the other way around. That being said, we allow our government to ensure that there are standards and that is a good thing for the public in general. We can't infringe on other peoples rights to NOT have an airplane crash through their roof because of unreasonable behavior. Just my opinion. Jake Crause Baghdad, Iraq RV-7 Preview Plans __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2008
From: "Matthew Collier" <ivdiggs(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Tools for Sale
John, I would like to buy your tools. I'm in the the process of trying to buy an RV10 kit and will no doubt need just about everything you are offering once I get it. If these tools are still available, please call or email me so we can work out the details. Thanks, Matthew Collier 541-419-5634 ivdiggs(at)gmail.com On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 9:00 PM, John Danielson wrote: > Hi all RV list members, > > > I am in the process of cleaning out the hanger and I don't have need for > tools I built my RV with. So I am giving the list members first chance. > > I would like to sell the tools as a package to a new builder, but will > consider parting out. > > Below is a list of the tools for sale. Please e-mail me off the List with > any questions you may have. Jdaniel343(at)bresnan.net > > > John Danielson Casper, WY > > > Tools are in very good condition. > > > TAYLOR 3X RIVET GUN (ALMOST NEW) > > $70.00 > > 5X CLECO RIVET GUN (USES STD RIVET SETS) > > $50.00 > > BEHIVE SPRING > > $1.00 > > QUICK SHANGE SPRING > > $1.00 > > PNEUMATIC RIVET SQUEEZER > > $275.00 > > ADJUSTABLE RIVET SET FOR PNEUMATIC SQUEEZER > > $30.00 > > 3" SQUEEZER YOKE > > $75.00 > > 1/4" SOUIX PALM DRILL (3600RPM) > > $150.00 > > 3/8" FLORIDA PNUEMATIC DRILL > > $50.00 > > RIGHT ANGLE PNEUMATIC DRILL (THREADED BITS) > > $100.00 > > PNUEMATIC DIE GRINDER > > $15.00 > > AIR TOOL REGULATORS > > $2.00 > > 22" C-FRAME HAND RIVET AND DIMPLING TOOL > > $80.00 > > 3/8" STEEL BACK RIVET PLATE > > $20.00 > > PNEUMATIC POP RIVET PULLER > > $30.00 > > SHOP HEAD RIVET GUAGE SET (4) > > $3.00 > > RIVET LENGTH GUAGE > > $2.00 > > FLUTING PLIER > > $15.00 > > FLUSH SWIVEL RIVET SET > > $10.00 > > BACK RIVET SET > > $5.00 > > COUNTER SINK CAGE AND CUTTER > > $20.00 > > 12" FLEXIBLE STEEL RULER > > $2.00 > > V-GROOVE DEBURRING TOOL > > $2.00 > > RIVET SPACING FAN > > $10.00 > > ASSORTED BUCKING BARS (5) > > $40.00 > > "OOPS" HOLE SAVER RIVET KIT > > $15.00 > > #40 THREADED DRILL BITS (4) > > $5.00 > > #30 THREADED DRILL BITS (4) > > $5.00 > > ASSORTED THREADED DRILL BITS > > $10.00 > > ASSORTED STEP DRILLS (3) > > $25.00 > > #40 DRILL BITS (4) > > $2.00 > > #30 DRILL BITS (4) > > $2.00 > > #40 6" DRILL BIT > > $2.00 > > #30 6" DRILL BIT > > $2.00 > > #40 12" DRILL BIT > > $2.00 > > #30 12" DRILL BIT > > $2.00 > > RIGHT AVIATION TIN SNIP > > $12.00 > > LEFT AVIATION TIN SNIP > > $12.00 > > STRAIGHT TIN SNIP > > $12.00 > > ADEL HAND NIBBLING TOOL > > $7.00 > > CUT-OFF WHEELS / 3 PACK > > $3.00 > > CUT-OFF WHEEL MANDREL > > $2.00 > > 3" VISE GRIP HAND SEAMER > > $12.00 > > METAL SHRINKER / STRETCHER > > $150.00 > > EDGE ROLLING TOOL > > $5.00 > > 1/8" TUBING FLARING TOOL > > $10.00 > > PARKER 37 ROLO-FLAIR FLAIRING TOOL > > $50.00 > > TUBING BENDER 3/16", 1/4", 3/8" > > $5.00 > > 1/8" CLOSE QUARTER POP RIVET DIE SET > > $2.00 > > 3/32" CLOSE QUARTER POP RIVET DIE SET > > $2.00 > > 3/32" DIMPLE DIES > > $15.00 > > 1/8" DIMPLE DIES > > $15.00 > > #4 SCREW DIMPLE DIE SET > > $15.00 > > #6 SCREW DIMPLE DIE SET > > $15.00 > > #8 SCREW DIMPLE DIE SET > > $15.00 > > #10 SCREW DIMPLE DIE SET > > $15.00 > > 3/32" UNIVERASAL CUP DIMPLE DIE > > $5.00 > > 1/8" UNIVERSAL CUP DIMPLE DIE > > $5.00 > > 5/32" UNIVERSAL CUP DIMPLE DIE > > $5.00 > > 3/16" UNIVERSAL CUP DIMPLE DIE > > $5.00 > > WOOD DIMPLE DIE HOLER > > $2.00 > > 8 PIECE FLAT SQUEZER SET > > $15.00 > > 3/32" CUP RIVET SET > > $3.00 > > 1/8" CUP RIVET SET > > $3.00 > > 5/32" CUP RIVET SET > > $3.00 > > 3/16" CUP RIVET SET > > $3.00 > > 3/32" CUP OFFSET RIVET SET > > $3.00 > > 1/8" CUP OFFSET RIVET SET > > $3.00 > > 5/32" CUP OFFSET RIVET SET > > $3.00 > > 3/16" CUP OFFSET RIVET SET > > $3.00 > > RIVET CUTTER > > $18.00 > > 5 PC ASSORTED FILES > > $15.00 > > 4 PC DRILL STOP SET > > $5.00 > > CLECO PLIERS (2) > > $5.00 > > 3/32" CLECOS (100) > > $25.00 > > 1/8" CLECOS (100) > > $25.00 > > 5/32" CLECOS (100) > > $25.00 > > 3/16" C;ECOS (20) > > $5.00 > > 1/4" CLECOS (20) > > $5.00 > > 1/2" CLECO CLAMPS (10) > > $20.00 > > 1" CLECO CLAMPS (10) > > $20.00 > > > *$1,733.00* > > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Flying - Privilege or Right ???
Date: Apr 12, 2008
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privilege http://www.greatamericanbirdshow.org/airinfo.html http://information.travel.aol.com/article/air/_a/why-tsa-agents-act-like-they-do/20080123111509990001 I cannot find ANY sources that says that flying is a RIGHT. Please provide SOURCES for that statement. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 2,084 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA ________________________________ > Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 22:08:18 -0700 > From: jakecrause(at)yahoo.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Safety Record > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >>>>>>Flying is a privilege not a right.<<<< > > Why do people keep saying that? I see that sentiment often on several different forums. The attitude seems to be that the government is doing us a favor by "allowing" us to fly. Last I checked, government serves us, not the other way around. That being said, we allow our government to ensure that there are standards and that is a good thing for the public in general. We can't infringe on other peoples rights to NOT have an airplane crash through their roof because of unreasonable behavior. > > Just my opinion. > > Jake Crause > Baghdad, Iraq _________________________________________________________________ Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_042008 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "mike humphrey" <mike109g6(at)insideconnect.net>
Subject: Re: RV Safety Record
Date: Apr 12, 2008
I have to go along with Jake on this one. I seem to remember somewhere that some documents written by some pretty smart guys maintained that certain rights, like life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness were guaranteed to all people, not a privileged few. Pretty wide brush stroke that last one is, and for good reason. And in another document these same guys clearly stated that government was by the people, for the people. I know that in today's political climate certain privileged few would have you believe that times have changed and that these antiquated documents are exactly that. That government is here to tell you how you are to live or pay the penalty, because They know better than you. Excuse me but I didn't fight in two wars to be told what MY rights are, and that I ought to be thankful for the privilege of being allowed to fly a plane, drive a car, send my kids to a safe school or pay more taxes. Your Rights are endless-until you turn them over to the government-that's when you start using the term privilege. Keep your head down Jake, come home safe, Mike H ----- Original Message ----- From: Jake Crause To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 1:08 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Safety Record >>>>>Flying is a privilege not a right.<<<< Why do people keep saying that? I see that sentiment often on several different forums. The attitude seems to be that the government is doing us a favor by "allowing" us to fly. Last I checked, government serves us, not the other way around. That being said, we allow our government to ensure that there are standards and that is a good thing for the public in general. We can't infringe on other peoples rights to NOT have an airplane crash through their roof because of unreasonable behavior. Just my opinion. Jake Crause Baghdad, Iraq ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 12, 2008
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RV safety RV_Stats-1.pdf -
Hi all, I am sure that a lot of you have heard of or read some of Ron Wanttaja,'s articles He writes article and gives talks at EAA functions about safety etc.and does statistical studies mostly pertaining to homebuilt aircraft. I have known him for a few years and I wrote to him and ask if he could help with the statistic regarding RV accidents compared to the rest of the homebuilt community and this is what he sent me. Jerry Springer +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> Can can I post this on the RV-List? >> There is a discussion going on there about how to make the RV flying >> community safer and how to compare RV accidents to the rest of the >> homebuilt accident rates. Someone ask how to break the RVs apart from >> the rest of the homebuilt accident statistics. I would like to point people >> to your article or maybe you could help us out some way with RV accident >> statistics. > I give talks to the local EAA chapters that go further than the articles. Attached is a page from my presentation where I discuss RV accident causes and compare them to the overall statistics. The data is based on accidents from 1998 through 2004, inclusive. "General Pilot Error" is basically mistakes in the stick-and-rudder skills; "SALA" stands for "Stupidity at Low Altitude," buzzing, flying up box canyons, etc. In my presentations, I use a red star to call attention to interesting results, such as the RV's higher rate in what I call 'cross-country' accidents. The lower rate of pilot error accidents may well be due to the higher general experience level of RV pilots, as shown by the median pilot hours. During the subject period the annual fleet accident rate for all homebuilts was about 0.94% (e.g., almost one out of every 100 homebuilts crashes in a given year) and the RV fleet accident rate was almost identical (0.90%). In contrast, the Glasair rate was 1.11%, The overall rate for all N-numbered aircraft was 0.63%, so homebuilts have a rate about 50% higher than the overall fleet. I'm currently adding 2005 and 2006 data to my database, and will be updating the graphs accordingly. Don't expect them to change too much, but you never know.... Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV Safety Record
Date: Apr 12, 2008
Thank you Mike! Was thinking about how to say what you said when I read your post. You said it very well. Especially "Your Rights are endless-until you turn them over to the government-that's when you start using the term privilege." Dale Ensing ----- Original Message ----- From: mike humphrey To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 2:57 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Safety Record I have to go along with Jake on this one. I seem to remember somewhere that some documents written by some pretty smart guys maintained that certain rights, like life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness were guaranteed to all people, not a privileged few. Pretty wide brush stroke that last one is, and for good reason. And in another document these same guys clearly stated that government was by the people, for the people. I know that in today's political climate certain privileged few would have you believe that times have changed and that these antiquated documents are exactly that. That government is here to tell you how you are to live or pay the penalty, because They know better than you. Excuse me but I didn't fight in two wars to be told what MY rights are, and that I ought to be thankful for the privilege of being allowed to fly a plane, drive a car, send my kids to a safe school or pay more taxes. Your Rights are endless-until you turn them over to the government-that's when you start using the term privilege. Keep your head down Jake, come home safe, Mike H ----- Original Message ----- From: Jake Crause To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 1:08 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Safety Record >>>>>Flying is a privilege not a right.<<<< Why do people keep saying that? I see that sentiment often on several different forums. The attitude seems to be that the government is doing us a favor by "allowing" us to fly. Last I checked, government serves us, not the other way around. That being said, we allow our government to ensure that there are standards and that is a good thing for the public in general. We can't infringe on other peoples rights to NOT have an airplane crash through their roof because of unreasonable behavior. Just my opinion. Jake Crause Baghdad, Iraq href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flying - Privilege or Right ???
From: "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com>
Date: Apr 12, 2008
Your question about a source documenting that flying is a right got me wondering about some other things. Is there a source that endows us with a right to reproduce, eat breathe etc? The answer to all of these as well as flying is yes. They are found in the founding document of the United States The Declaration of independence. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Specifically the last sentence tells me I have a right to fly. -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176370#176370 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Danielson" <Jdaniel343(at)bresnan.net>
Subject: Tools for Sale
Date: Apr 12, 2008
Hi Mat, I am glad your interested in the tools. I am going to the hanger today to gather up the tools, take photos and inventory the tools. If I am missing anything that I listed I will let you know and of course subtract that cost. I have more clecos than is listed but am not sure the total number. I probably have 400 or more 3/32" and may be 300 1/8". If your interested in these (you will need this many) I will sell them at $0.25 each. I will charge actual cost of shipping on top of the price of the tools. I will give you a call later today to discuss payment and shipping. You can go to http://www.mnwing.org/id78.htm and see a photos of my RV-6. Thanks John Danielson -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Collier Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 11:49 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Tools for Sale John, I would like to buy your tools. I'm in the the process of trying to buy an RV10 kit and will no doubt need just about everything you are offering once I get it. If these tools are still available, please call or email me so we can work out the details. Thanks, Matthew Collier 541-419-5634 ivdiggs(at)gmail.com On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 9:00 PM, John Danielson wrote: Hi all RV list members, I am in the process of cleaning out the hanger and I don't have need for tools I built my RV with. So I am giving the list members first chance. I would like to sell the tools as a package to a new builder, but will consider parting out. Below is a list of the tools for sale. Please e-mail me off the List with any questions you may have. Jdaniel343(at)bresnan.net John Danielson Casper, WY Tools are in very good condition. TAYLOR 3X RIVET GUN (ALMOST NEW) $70.00 5X CLECO RIVET GUN (USES STD RIVET SETS) $50.00 BEHIVE SPRING $1.00 QUICK SHANGE SPRING $1.00 PNEUMATIC RIVET SQUEEZER $275.00 ADJUSTABLE RIVET SET FOR PNEUMATIC SQUEEZER $30.00 3" SQUEEZER YOKE $75.00 1/4" SOUIX PALM DRILL (3600RPM) $150.00 3/8" FLORIDA PNUEMATIC DRILL $50.00 RIGHT ANGLE PNEUMATIC DRILL (THREADED BITS) $100.00 PNUEMATIC DIE GRINDER $15.00 AIR TOOL REGULATORS $2.00 22" C-FRAME HAND RIVET AND DIMPLING TOOL $80.00 3/8" STEEL BACK RIVET PLATE $20.00 PNEUMATIC POP RIVET PULLER $30.00 SHOP HEAD RIVET GUAGE SET (4) $3.00 RIVET LENGTH GUAGE $2.00 FLUTING PLIER $15.00 FLUSH SWIVEL RIVET SET $10.00 BACK RIVET SET $5.00 COUNTER SINK CAGE AND CUTTER $20.00 12" FLEXIBLE STEEL RULER $2.00 V-GROOVE DEBURRING TOOL $2.00 RIVET SPACING FAN $10.00 ASSORTED BUCKING BARS (5) $40.00 "OOPS" HOLE SAVER RIVET KIT $15.00 #40 THREADED DRILL BITS (4) $5.00 #30 THREADED DRILL BITS (4) $5.00 ASSORTED THREADED DRILL BITS $10.00 ASSORTED STEP DRILLS (3) $25.00 #40 DRILL BITS (4) $2.00 #30 DRILL BITS (4) $2.00 #40 6" DRILL BIT $2.00 #30 6" DRILL BIT $2.00 #40 12" DRILL BIT $2.00 #30 12" DRILL BIT $2.00 RIGHT AVIATION TIN SNIP $12.00 LEFT AVIATION TIN SNIP $12.00 STRAIGHT TIN SNIP $12.00 ADEL HAND NIBBLING TOOL $7.00 CUT-OFF WHEELS / 3 PACK $3.00 CUT-OFF WHEEL MANDREL $2.00 3" VISE GRIP HAND SEAMER $12.00 METAL SHRINKER / STRETCHER $150.00 EDGE ROLLING TOOL $5.00 1/8" TUBING FLARING TOOL $10.00 PARKER 37 ROLO-FLAIR FLAIRING TOOL $50.00 TUBING BENDER 3/16", 1/4", 3/8" $5.00 1/8" CLOSE QUARTER POP RIVET DIE SET $2.00 3/32" CLOSE QUARTER POP RIVET DIE SET $2.00 3/32" DIMPLE DIES $15.00 1/8" DIMPLE DIES $15.00 #4 SCREW DIMPLE DIE SET $15.00 #6 SCREW DIMPLE DIE SET $15.00 #8 SCREW DIMPLE DIE SET $15.00 #10 SCREW DIMPLE DIE SET $15.00 3/32" UNIVERASAL CUP DIMPLE DIE $5.00 1/8" UNIVERSAL CUP DIMPLE DIE $5.00 5/32" UNIVERSAL CUP DIMPLE DIE $5.00 3/16" UNIVERSAL CUP DIMPLE DIE $5.00 WOOD DIMPLE DIE HOLER $2.00 8 PIECE FLAT SQUEZER SET $15.00 3/32" CUP RIVET SET $3.00 1/8" CUP RIVET SET $3.00 5/32" CUP RIVET SET $3.00 3/16" CUP RIVET SET $3.00 3/32" CUP OFFSET RIVET SET $3.00 1/8" CUP OFFSET RIVET SET $3.00 5/32" CUP OFFSET RIVET SET $3.00 3/16" CUP OFFSET RIVET SET $3.00 RIVET CUTTER $18.00 5 PC ASSORTED FILES $15.00 4 PC DRILL STOP SET $5.00 CLECO PLIERS (2) $5.00 3/32" CLECOS (100) $25.00 1/8" CLECOS (100) $25.00 5/32" CLECOS (100) $25.00 3/16" C;ECOS (20) $5.00 1/4" CLECOS (20) $5.00 1/2" CLECO CLAMPS (10) $20.00 1" CLECO CLAMPS (10) $20.00 $1,733.00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Danielson" <Jdaniel343(at)bresnan.net>
Subject: Tools for Sale
Date: Apr 12, 2008
Sorry for that going out on the RV list John D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: Flying - Privilege or Right ???
Date: Apr 12, 2008
If you accept the equivalence in this context of the words "power" and "right", then the 10th amendment to the U.S. Constitution pretty much covers it: " The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." I think Jake and Milt got it about right. We do not live by permission of any government. The government exists only by our consent. It frightens me to see how many citizens of the U. S. have either forgotten or never understood that. Terry -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV6 Flyer Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 10:54 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Flying - Privilege or Right ??? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privilege http://www.greatamericanbirdshow.org/airinfo.html http://information.travel.aol.com/article/air/_a/why-tsa-agents-act-like-the y-do/20080123111509990001 I cannot find ANY sources that says that flying is a RIGHT. Please provide SOURCES for that statement. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 2,084 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA ________________________________ > Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 22:08:18 -0700 > From: jakecrause(at)yahoo.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Safety Record > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >>>>>>Flying is a privilege not a right.<<<< > > Why do people keep saying that? I see that sentiment often on several different forums. The attitude seems to be that the government is doing us a favor by "allowing" us to fly. Last I checked, government serves us, not the other way around. That being said, we allow our government to ensure that there are standards and that is a good thing for the public in general. We can't infringe on other peoples rights to NOT have an airplane crash through their roof because of unreasonable behavior. > > Just my opinion. > > Jake Crause > Baghdad, Iraq _________________________________________________________________ Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL _Refresh_messenger_video_042008 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 12, 2008
From: Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Flying - Privilege or Right ???
--- N395V wrote: > > > Your question about a source documenting that flying > is a right got me wondering about some other things. > Is there a source that endows us with a right to > reproduce, eat breathe etc? > > The answer to all of these as well as flying is yes. > They are found in the founding document of the > United States The Declaration of independence. > > "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all > men are created equal, that they are endowed by > their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that > among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of > Happiness." > > Specifically the last sentence tells me I have a > right to fly. > > -------- > Milt > 2003 F1 Rocket > 2006 Radial Rocket Milt, I wish what you say is true. Unfortunately, flying falls under the same criteria as my right to swing my fist ends at your nose. Flying like driving puts you in control of a vehicle which may maim or kill others if operated in a reckless manner. That is why our government requires you to possess a license to drive or fly. This is a democratic republic. The rights of the majority rule. You don't have the right to drop your airplane onto anyone's house or property. To have the RIGHT to fly, you would probably need to buy an uninhabited island! :-) Charlie Kuss __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wheeler North" <wnorth(at)sdccd.edu>
Subject: Rights
Date: Apr 12, 2008
The right of our country's citizens to travel between states by commonly used means is pretty well recognized in constitutional law. It is a part of why they issue certificates not licenses. It's about qualification versus permission, the constitutional authority only allows the fed to measure qualifications. The fact that aviation is regulated federally is a huge blessing, particularly coming from California. OMG can you imagine, differing airspace rules per state, ugh, the chart would be unreadable. If you have no certificates the FAA can't really do much to you, other then to recommend action to other fed or state agencies based upon their evidence. A state driver's license is permission and can be revoked for no reason specific to you (Although there would be hell to pay, but the state can do this) And, with or without one the DMV's can take direct action against you through the courts, at least in Ca. (Don't ask how I know this) The Fed can't, and that is also why one can usually reapply for a certificate after one year in most cases of revocation. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Perkinson" <bobperk90658(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV Safety Record
Date: Apr 12, 2008
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 12, 2008
From: Chris W <3edcft6(at)cox.net>
Subject: OT: aluminum panel
I was wondering if anyone has some spare aluminum sheet and would be willing to make a panel for me for a reasonable fee? I still need to acquire a few parts before I am sure on all the dimensions but attached is an image of what I need. I will of course fill in all the dimensions when I have the design finished in a few weeks. I am looking for something that is between 1/16" and 1/8" thick. -- Chris W KE5GIX "Protect your digital freedom and privacy, eliminate DRM, learn more at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm" Ham Radio Repeater Database. http://hrrdb.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Bell" <carlbell(at)gforcecable.com>
Subject: RV Safety Record
Date: Apr 12, 2008
Amen, but most folks these days are willing to give them away for some mysterious reason I can't seem to find in Wikipedia. Oh well back to school for me, I guess need help. _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of mike humphrey Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 2:58 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Safety Record I have to go along with Jake on this one. I seem to remember somewhere that some documents written by some pretty smart guys maintained that certain rights, like life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness were guaranteed to all people, not a privileged few. Pretty wide brush stroke that last one is, and for good reason. And in another document these same guys clearly stated that government was by the people, for the people. I know that in today's political climate certain privileged few would have you believe that times have changed and that these antiquated documents are exactly that. That government is here to tell you how you are to live or pay the penalty, because They know better than you. Excuse me but I didn't fight in two wars to be told what MY rights are, and that I ought to be thankful for the privilege of being allowed to fly a plane, drive a car, send my kids to a safe school or pay more taxes. Your Rights are endless-until you turn them over to the government-that's when you start using the term privilege. Keep your head down Jake, come home safe, Mike H ----- Original Message ----- From: Jake Crause <mailto:jakecrause(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 1:08 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Safety Record >>>>>Flying is a privilege not a right.<<<< Why do people keep saying that? I see that sentiment often on several different forums. The attitude seems to be that the government is doing us a favor by "allowing" us to fly. Last I checked, government serves us, not the other way around. That being said, we allow our government to ensure that there are standards and that is a good thing for the public in general. We can't infringe on other peoples rights to NOT have an airplane crash through their roof because of unreasonable behavior. Just my opinion. Jake Crause Baghdad, Iraq href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 13, 2008
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Subject: The" P" Word
The P (privilege) word is often invoked by egotistical bureaucrats and politicians who can't stand the fact that THEY are not KINGS of their particular territory. I too get sick of hearing the P word from this crowd and...from citizens of our country who drink the cool aid these officials are selling. These folks tend follow along like sheep because they don't realize that every time they go along with a new law they let the camel's nose under the tent a little further. Next thing you know, there's nothing left because the activity is prohibited. Are you one of those blind followers of the "all knowing all seeing" government Gary. How about when the American Socialist party takes over the presidency and begins to pander to the global warming special interests in the environmentalist movement? Did you know that radical environmentalists are calling for euthanasia of humans in the name of "saving the planet"? Even that great purveyor of television cable news, Ted Turner, was shooting his mouth off on PBS last week about how the planet cannot survive if we don't do something about the increasing number of human beings!!! Do you look at your life as a "privilege" Gary? Are you willing to give it up in the name of "saving the planet"? How about your wife? Your children? You going to agree to give up the "privilege" of their lives to a government edict? Intelligent people don't follow power hungry career lawyer politicians over the proverbial cliff just because they like someone's agenda. Yes it doesn't say in the US Constitution (or any of its amendments) that flying is a right (if the founding fathers had experienced the wonder of flying they certainly would have made it one). But... throughout most of the history of our country things were NOT generally prohibited if they did not interfere with the rights of others. Unfortunately, now days people have been dumbed down by public education and a lack of facts. Politicians have become more brazen about how it's the government's "RIGHT" to control everyone and everything because some special interest says so (and mainstream news media tends to not question any politician who goes against our constitutional rights unless of course it's their first amendment right to spout mindless socialist crap)! If we continue down the present path, it won't be long until you'll all have to call Ted Kennedy for permission to wipe your rear ends after you defecate. That means a lot of good hardworking people are going to have to take time to be inconvenienced. I'm talking about all of you taking time off from work/play/etc to go to your respective city council meetings, state Capitols, and even Washington DC to make more noise than the control freak special interests who think that a bunch of lawyers (who know nothing about anything except that they can fix EVERYTHING if only they pass more laws telling us what to do and take more of our money) can force us all to do their bidding. I've lived long enough to remember the TV footage of the bread lines, shoe lines and persecution that went on in the old Soviet Union and it'll be a cold day in &%^*$ before I let a bunch of politicians pull that Marxist crap in this country. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Radical Libertarian ________________________ Original Message ______________________________ From: RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: Flying - Privilege or Right ??? I cannot find ANY sources that says that flying is a RIGHT. Please provide SOURCES for that statement. Gary A. Sobek ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: The" P" Word
Date: Apr 13, 2008
Why don't we take this to another forum and get back to RV issues? David Maib On Apr 13, 2008, at 2:57 AM, DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote: The P (privilege) word is often invoked by egotistical bureaucrats and politicians who can't stand the fact that THEY are not KINGS of their particular territory. I too get sick of hearing the P word from this crowd and...from citizens of our country who drink the cool aid these officials are selling. These folks tend follow along like sheep because they don't realize that every time they go along with a new law they let the camel's nose under the tent a little further. Next thing you know, there's nothing left because the activity is prohibited. Are you one of those blind followers of the "all knowing all seeing" government Gary. How about when the American Socialist party takes over the presidency and begins to pander to the global warming special interests in the environmentalist movement? Did you know that radical environmentalists are calling for euthanasia of humans in the name of "saving the planet"? Even that great purveyor of television cable news, Ted Turner, was shooting his mouth off on PBS last week about how the planet cannot survive if we don't do something about the increasing number of human beings!!! Do you look at your life as a "privilege" Gary? Are you willing to give it up in the name of "saving the planet"? How about your wife? Your children? You going to agree to give up the "privilege" of their lives to a government edict? Intelligent people don't follow power hungry career lawyer politicians over the proverbial cliff just because they like someone's agenda. Yes it doesn't say in the US Constitution (or any of its amendments) that flying is a right (if the founding fathers had experienced the wonder of flying they certainly would have made it one). But... throughout most of the history of our country things were NOT generally prohibited if they did not interfere with the rights of others. Unfortunately, now days people have been dumbed down by public education and a lack of facts. Politicians have become more brazen about how it's the government's "RIGHT" to control everyone and everything because some special interest says so (and mainstream news media tends to not question any politician who goes against our constitutional rights unless of course it's their first amendment right to spout mindless socialist crap)! If we continue down the present path, it won't be long until you'll all have to call Ted Kennedy for permission to wipe your rear ends after you defecate. That means a lot of good hardworking people are going to have to take time to be inconvenienced. I'm talking about all of you taking time off from work/play/etc to go to your respective city council meetings, state Capitols, and even Washington DC to make more noise than the control freak special interests who think that a bunch of lawyers (who know nothing about anything except that they can fix EVERYTHING if only they pass more laws telling us what to do and take more of our money) can force us all to do their bidding. I've lived long enough to remember the TV footage of the bread lines, shoe lines and persecution that went on in the old Soviet Union and it'll be a cold day in &%^*$ before I let a bunch of politicians pull that Marxist crap in this country. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Radical Libertarian ________________________ Original Message ______________________________ From: RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: Flying - Privilege or Right ??? I cannot find ANY sources that says that flying is a RIGHT. Please provide SOURCES for that statement. Gary A. Sobek ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 13, 2008
From: "RALPH HOOVER" <hooverra(at)verizon.net>
Subject: OT: aluminum panel
Chris, Try Front Panel Express http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/. They have made several panels for my RV7 and they came out well and the price was reasonable. They have a S/W package that you may use for the layout and then get a quote and place an order with a few key strokes. Ralph -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris W Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 7:40 PM Subject: RV-List: OT: aluminum panel I was wondering if anyone has some spare aluminum sheet and would be willing to make a panel for me for a reasonable fee? I still need to acquire a few parts before I am sure on all the dimensions but attached is an image of what I need. I will of course fill in all the dimensions when I have the design finished in a few weeks. I am looking for something that is between 1/16" and 1/8" thick. -- Chris W KE5GIX "Protect your digital freedom and privacy, eliminate DRM, learn more at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm" Ham Radio Repeater Database. http://hrrdb.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 13, 2008
From: "RALPH HOOVER" <hooverra(at)verizon.net>
Subject: The" P" Word
Dean, Well said. Something to think about next time you pull the lever for any of those Lawyer Politicians who think their safety is more important than your rights. Of course I'm speaking of the DC ADIZ (file a flight plan to do touch and go's) unless you are at one of the DC 3 airports then you must be vetted by the pinhead bureaucrats to even enter or leave the airspace. Then there are the ever present and expanding no fly zones. When will people wake up and realize that the risks are well worth the rewards and accept those risks. Instead we are quick to give up our rights to feel like there is greater safety. We all pay dearly for all the unnecessary BS in both taxes and loss of freedom. Anyone fly commercial lately. Last time I flew I was searched because I failed to take my watch off, and remove a pack of gum from my shirt pocket. They X-Rayed the gum!! I felt so much safer!! Your tax dollars at work. But hey soon those landing fees, ATC fees, briefing fees ... will pay for it all. We are well along down the slippery slope, time to put on the brakes. Ralph KHWY just outside the DC ADIZ RV7A -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DEAN PSIROPOULOS Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 3:57 AM Subject: RV-List: The" P" Word The P (privilege) word is often invoked by egotistical bureaucrats and politicians who can't stand the fact that THEY are not KINGS of their particular territory. I too get sick of hearing the P word from this crowd and...from citizens of our country who drink the cool aid these officials are selling. These folks tend follow along like sheep because they don't realize that every time they go along with a new law they let the camel's nose under the tent a little further. Next thing you know, there's nothing left because the activity is prohibited. Are you one of those blind followers of the "all knowing all seeing" government Gary. How about when the American Socialist party takes over the presidency and begins to pander to the global warming special interests in the environmentalist movement? Did you know that radical environmentalists are calling for euthanasia of humans in the name of "saving the planet"? Even that great purveyor of television cable news, Ted Turner, was shooting his mouth off on PBS last week about how the planet cannot survive if we don't do something about the increasing number of human beings!!! Do you look at your life as a "privilege" Gary? Are you willing to give it up in the name of "saving the planet"? How about your wife? Your children? You going to agree to give up the "privilege" of their lives to a government edict? Intelligent people don't follow power hungry career lawyer politicians over the proverbial cliff just because they like someone's agenda. Yes it doesn't say in the US Constitution (or any of its amendments) that flying is a right (if the founding fathers had experienced the wonder of flying they certainly would have made it one). But... throughout most of the history of our country things were NOT generally prohibited if they did not interfere with the rights of others. Unfortunately, now days people have been dumbed down by public education and a lack of facts. Politicians have become more brazen about how it's the government's "RIGHT" to control everyone and everything because some special interest says so (and mainstream news media tends to not question any politician who goes against our constitutional rights unless of course it's their first amendment right to spout mindless socialist crap)! If we continue down the present path, it won't be long until you'll all have to call Ted Kennedy for permission to wipe your rear ends after you defecate. That means a lot of good hardworking people are going to have to take time to be inconvenienced. I'm talking about all of you taking time off from work/play/etc to go to your respective city council meetings, state Capitols, and even Washington DC to make more noise than the control freak special interests who think that a bunch of lawyers (who know nothing about anything except that they can fix EVERYTHING if only they pass more laws telling us what to do and take more of our money) can force us all to do their bidding. I've lived long enough to remember the TV footage of the bread lines, shoe lines and persecution that went on in the old Soviet Union and it'll be a cold day in &%^*$ before I let a bunch of politicians pull that Marxist crap in this country. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Radical Libertarian ________________________ Original Message ______________________________ From: RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: Flying - Privilege or Right ??? I cannot find ANY sources that says that flying is a RIGHT. Please provide SOURCES for that statement. Gary A. Sobek ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 13, 2008
From: "RALPH HOOVER" <hooverra(at)verizon.net>
Subject: The" P" Word
It is an RV issue if the rights to build and fly are infringed or eliminated. We are heading that direction. Ralph -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Maib Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 7:21 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: The" P" Word Why don't we take this to another forum and get back to RV issues? David Maib On Apr 13, 2008, at 2:57 AM, DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote: The P (privilege) word is often invoked by egotistical bureaucrats and politicians who can't stand the fact that THEY are not KINGS of their particular territory. I too get sick of hearing the P word from this crowd and...from citizens of our country who drink the cool aid these officials are selling. These folks tend follow along like sheep because they don't realize that every time they go along with a new law they let the camel's nose under the tent a little further. Next thing you know, there's nothing left because the activity is prohibited. Are you one of those blind followers of the "all knowing all seeing" government Gary. How about when the American Socialist party takes over the presidency and begins to pander to the global warming special interests in the environmentalist movement? Did you know that radical environmentalists are calling for euthanasia of humans in the name of "saving the planet"? Even that great purveyor of television cable news, Ted Turner, was shooting his mouth off on PBS last week about how the planet cannot survive if we don't do something about the increasing number of human beings!!! Do you look at your life as a "privilege" Gary? Are you willing to give it up in the name of "saving the planet"? How about your wife? Your children? You going to agree to give up the "privilege" of their lives to a government edict? Intelligent people don't follow power hungry career lawyer politicians over the proverbial cliff just because they like someone's agenda. Yes it doesn't say in the US Constitution (or any of its amendments) that flying is a right (if the founding fathers had experienced the wonder of flying they certainly would have made it one). But... throughout most of the history of our country things were NOT generally prohibited if they did not interfere with the rights of others. Unfortunately, now days people have been dumbed down by public education and a lack of facts. Politicians have become more brazen about how it's the government's "RIGHT" to control everyone and everything because some special interest says so (and mainstream news media tends to not question any politician who goes against our constitutional rights unless of course it's their first amendment right to spout mindless socialist crap)! If we continue down the present path, it won't be long until you'll all have to call Ted Kennedy for permission to wipe your rear ends after you defecate. That means a lot of good hardworking people are going to have to take time to be inconvenienced. I'm talking about all of you taking time off from work/play/etc to go to your respective city council meetings, state Capitols, and even Washington DC to make more noise than the control freak special interests who think that a bunch of lawyers (who know nothing about anything except that they can fix EVERYTHING if only they pass more laws telling us what to do and take more of our money) can force us all to do their bidding. I've lived long enough to remember the TV footage of the bread lines, shoe lines and persecution that went on in the old Soviet Union and it'll be a cold day in &%^*$ before I let a bunch of politicians pull that Marxist crap in this country. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Radical Libertarian ________________________ Original Message ______________________________ From: RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: Flying - Privilege or Right ??? I cannot find ANY sources that says that flying is a RIGHT. Please provide SOURCES for that statement. Gary A. Sobek ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The" P" Word
From: "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com>
Date: Apr 13, 2008
> Why don't we take this to another forum and get back to RV issues? > > David Maib > > Why? Is discussing anything political a privilege rather than a right. For Christ's sake if you don't like the thread don't read it. If it pops up in your e mail delete it. Or maybe you can run for Congress and craft legislation to infringe on our RIGHTS. -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176528#176528 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flying - Privilege or Right ???
From: "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com>
Date: Apr 13, 2008
I do not take issue with regulation for the purpose of public safety ie requirements for training, currency, adequate health and do not view that as depriving me of my right to fly. Same goes for military and other restricted airspace to provide for safety and the common defense. A privilege is something that can be revoked without cause and I find no basis in law that would allow the fed to do that relative to my right to fly. I agree with others that when we endorse buzzwords or buzz phrases spit out by politicians such as "flying is a privilege and not a right" then we are de facto making their statements correct. This, in my opinion, is not a good thing to do as it ultimately assists them in their goal of eroding our rights. At the moment though our right to fly has its biggest challenge in the form of fuel prices rather than an overzealous government. -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176530#176530 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject: The right to fly thing
Date: Apr 13, 2008
I see its still going so heres my take. I met all the requirements to earn my coml, multi ticket which gives me the "right" to fly. I screw up and they can and will take that away for a period of time, if its bad enuf, forever. Personally, I consider it a privledge because I am blessed with the good health and the skills to do so. Charles Heathco ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 13, 2008
From: "Tracy Crook" <tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com>
Subject: Re: Accident one fatal
I'm all for safety but I suspect if we eliminated fun from flying, the sky would have very few homebuilts in it. In general, if it isn't fun, why bother? Tracy Crook (just back from Sun 'n *Fun*) bert murillo wrote: I =do not fly my Rv just for fun... > .I really use > it to go from point A to point B...travelling > is the ultimate goal..just..punching holes in the sky > does this will improve your flying skills?/ > > Any how, lets prove that Rv pilots are alittle > better than the rest of general aviation....would not > be great, if for 2008 there will not be a single > accident?? > > > See you at Sun and Fun > > Robert > > rv6a > > do nbot archive > > > __________________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon or Marge" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com>
Subject: battery update, Bill Dube
Date: Apr 13, 2008
-----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Dube Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 6:29 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: battery update, Bill Dube Sure, smaller is easy. The increments are 2.3 a-hrs and 120 cranking amps. The cells are 26650 size. That is, they are ~ 26 mm in diameter and ~65 mm long. To make a battery that is nominally 12 volts, we put 4 in series. We them parallel up as many as required to get the amp-hrs and cranking amps we need. Bill: Have reread your letter and have a some questions. My RV-8 will have Precision's Eagle system that needs a backup battery. They provide a maintainer and automatic switching unit and 3-4 AH is desireable but draw would only be 2 amps if called upon. What would you suggest? Also, I note that Chrysler showed a LiIon battery pack in a concept vehicle that claims 64KWH. How much would such a unit weigh? What is the capacity of your motorcycle unit? I notice that GM is still evaluating A123 batteries in an accelerated lifetime test. What is the status of your project? Thank you very much. Gordon Comfort ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 13, 2008
From: Harrell Staton <pj260(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: New Member
Folks - Just joined the group, thought I would take a little time to introduce myself. My name is Sam Staton, and I live in Jacksonville, FL. I presently fly a 1952 Piper TriPacer, with a 150HP O-320 (which will eventually power my RV-9!). Since all of my building experience in the past has been in wood and composite, I am a blank page when it comes to working in metal. That is one of the many reasons for settling on an RV. I am going to have to build a suite of tools, and in that vein, would be very interested in hearing from anyone on the list who has surplus or unneeded tools they would be willing to part with. Thanks! Sam Staton pj260(at)bellsouth.net 2552 Chesterbrook Ct. Jacksonville, FL 32224-3849 904-223-9627 (Home) 904-742-3091 (Cell) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Karatsonyi <mkaratsonyi(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Tools for Sale
Date: Apr 13, 2008
tools still for sale? From: Jdaniel343(at)bresnan.netTo: rv-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RE: RV-List: Tools for SaleDate: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 09:38:59 -0600 Sorry for that going out on the RV list John D _________________________________________________________________ Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM _WL_Refresh_messenger_video_042008 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Paul Rice <rice737(at)msn.com>
Subject: The" P" Word
Date: Apr 13, 2008
Right on Dean, I'll second that. Paul Rice RV8 Republican ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 13, 2008
From: Eddie Moran <lizzardracing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Sun N Fun Review
Not impressed. Volunteers running the taxi squad mostly confused both in an out. Friends have the same stories. I camped with HBC and surrounded by RV's. All cool looking by the way. My Moose had 3 DC-3's taxi by with their wings over my aircrafts nose all the way to the wing? WTFO? When I went to leave Sunday, they sent me the wrong way twice. Adding about 20 min to my taxi time. Mass confusion IMHO. Any other observations? __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ceengland(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: tip-up F-697 question
Date: Apr 13, 2008
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Sun N Fun Review
Date: Apr 13, 2008
I enjoyed my (13th?) visit to Snf. After landing on Thursday AM, I had the privledge of taxiing behind the slowest taxiing airplane (Glasair 1) I've ever seen. I was afraid I'd wear out my brakes taxiing to the homebuilt ramp. When I arrived the West GA camping area was sparse, but filled in pretty well by Friday/Saturday. By the way, Thurs/Fri/Sat all had excellent weather. Despite SPF 15 sunscreen and a big ugly hat, I still got a mild burn. The Thunderbirds were very good. They "practiced' on Thursday and Friday and had a show on Saturday. By all appearances, practices and shows are essentially the same. The downside to this is that 1/3 of the campground is closed during the practices/shows, which is a hassle if you want to go have a seat at camp during that 2 hour window. Also, on Thursday, they didn't practice at the designated time, so people were blocked from their campsites (and food, cars, etc) for far longer than expected. While the show was good, I'd submit that having a big act like this at SnF or Osh for several days in a row isn't a good fit for a fly-in type event. As always, the night airshow (Friday Night) was spectacular. The winds were calm enough on Saturday that they were able to launch the balloons. My count was 20+ including one with the envelope shaped like a dog - 4 legs, tail, ears, etc... I still miss the Sun 100, but understand that it is probably too large of a liability risk in today's society. It used to give me chill bumps watching airplanes people had built in their garages cross the finish line at 200 to 300 mph... Avionics were the real show. Many new products, particularly in the world of EFIS products. The obvious question to me is how many of these manufacturers will be around in 5 years? I can't imagine that the market for $5k-$20k components for experimental panels is big enough to support all of these manufacturers over the long term. Of course, with all the RV-10's around, there may be enough market. There were probably 10 RV-10's at the show, most sporting a $50k panel. Two or three of 'em were for sale. I'm interested in XM weather and continue to hope for a portable unit from Lowrance. "Soon" was all they could tell me. Anywhere Map had a new product based on a HP automotive GPS. Looked interesting, but I'd really prefer a "one box" solution (like the 396/496) vs a solution that has multiple components. After yesterday's show, I started checking weather and made a last minute decision to fly home last night because the wind and weather forecasts here in Atlanta for Sunday/Monday were beyond my abilites. I escaped the show at about 7:20 (10 minutes before they closed the field) and had a smooth 3 hour trip home. The landing was in a direct crosswind, 10 G 16. Surprisingly easy. Maybe I caught a break on the gusts. Today, the crosswind at the home runway is 20+ with gusts. Yuck. Several friends are stuck in S. GA waiting on better winds... Kyle Boatright 2001 RV-6 N46KB ----- Original Message ----- From: Eddie Moran To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 4:38 PM Subject: RV-List: Sun N Fun Review Not impressed. Volunteers running the taxi squad mostly confused both in an out. Friends have the same stories. I camped with HBC and surrounded by RV's. All cool looking by the way. My Moose had 3 DC-3's taxi by with their wings over my aircrafts nose all the way to the wing? WTFO? When I went to leave Sunday, they sent me the wrong way twice. Adding about 20 min to my taxi time. Mass confusion IMHO. Any other observations? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Garry" <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Tires and Brake Pads
Date: Apr 13, 2008
What kind of hours are folks getting on tires and brake pads? I have 135 hours on my 7A and the outside of the tires are bald and the brake pads are worn about 90%. In talking with Vans they said the original tires shipped with the kit aren't supposed to last more than 100 hours........ditto with the brake pads. This doesn't make sense to me. What kind of experience do others have? Also, any recommendations on what brand of tires to replace them with? Garry Stout Tampa, FL garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Tires and Brake Pads
Date: Apr 13, 2008
Is your wear primarily on the outside edge of the main gear tires? If so, reverse the tires on the wheels and you'll probably get 100 more hours. There is a lot of back and forth in the archives on tires. I'm using Michelins (and airstop tubes) myself. My understanding is that the -A models use more brakes than the tailwheel versions since brakes are the only steering mechanism. That said, I've replaced the pads once on my -6 in over 500 hours. Kyle Boatright 2001 RV-6 N46KB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garry" <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 6:38 PM Subject: RV-List: Tires and Brake Pads > > What kind of hours are folks getting on tires and brake pads? I have 135 > hours on my 7A and the outside of the tires are bald and the brake pads > are worn about 90%. In talking with Vans they said the original tires > shipped with the kit aren't supposed to last more than 100 > hours........ditto with the brake pads. This doesn't make sense to me. > What kind of experience do others have? Also, any recommendations on what > brand of tires to replace them with? > > Garry Stout > Tampa, FL > garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)cox.net>
Subject: Tires and Brake Pads
Date: Apr 13, 2008
300 hours on my 8A. This included a lot of cross country however. Carl Froehlich RV-8A (450 hrs) RV-10 (wings) Dogwood Airpark (VA42) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garry Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 6:38 PM Subject: RV-List: Tires and Brake Pads What kind of hours are folks getting on tires and brake pads? I have 135 hours on my 7A and the outside of the tires are bald and the brake pads are worn about 90%. In talking with Vans they said the original tires shipped with the kit aren't supposed to last more than 100 hours........ditto with the brake pads. This doesn't make sense to me. What kind of experience do others have? Also, any recommendations on what brand of tires to replace them with? Garry Stout Tampa, FL garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Tires and Brake Pads
Date: Apr 13, 2008
I rotated the original tires on my 6A at about 100 hours then replaced them at 160 hours. My brakes were at about 90% worn when I replaced them at 187 hours. Dale Ensing ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garry" <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 6:38 PM Subject: RV-List: Tires and Brake Pads > > What kind of hours are folks getting on tires and brake pads? I have 135 > hours on my 7A and the outside of the tires are bald and the brake pads > are worn about 90%. In talking with Vans they said the original tires > shipped with the kit aren't supposed to last more than 100 > hours........ditto with the brake pads. This doesn't make sense to me. > What kind of experience do others have? Also, any recommendations on what > brand of tires to replace them with? > > Garry Stout > Tampa, FL > garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 13, 2008
From: "Tracy Crook" <tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com>
Subject: Re: Sun N Fun Review
Just back from S 'n F myself. Not the best day for it but I flew in Sunday before opening (bad wx). First flight with significant weather in-route with XM weather on board and that one flight made the year's subscription a good investment. What would have been a nerve wracking flight without it was only mildly interesting (and fun of course). The challenge will be resisting overconfidence. Seemed slow this year, sort of disorganized, REALLY stupid camper registration and traffic routing (IMO), a pox on whoever it was that axed the SUN 100, etc, etc. But it's somewhere to fly and meet friends and "fly the rotary flag" so I go and probably will again. Tracy Crook ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Walter" <dale1rv6(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Sun N Fun Review
Date: Apr 13, 2008
Here is my video of the Thunderbirds, Patty Flagstaff, and a few others. Dedicated to those that missed it, especially due to weather or high fuel cost. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5lsWBkI3es The flagmen on the taxiways looked tired to me, I am thankful I don't have to do it. One parker did me a great service on my arrival, another at departure did his best to make me forget that but failed. Hope you enjoy the video, Dale RV6a (N241BD) 1000+ hrs _____ // Several friends are stuck in S. GA waiting on better winds... Kyle Boatright 2001 RV-6 N46KB ----- Original Message ----- From: Eddie <mailto:lizzardracing(at)yahoo.com> Moran Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 4:38 PM Subject: RV-List: Sun N Fun Review Not impressed. Volunteers running the taxi squad mostly confused both in an out. Friends have the same stories. I camped with HBC and surrounded by RV's. All cool looking by the way. My Moose had 3 DC-3's taxi by with their wings over my aircrafts nose all the way to the wing? WTFO? When I went to leave Sunday, they sent me the wrong way twice. Adding about 20 min to my taxi time. Mass confusion IMHO. Any other observations? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Matt Kuperus <mattkuperus(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: tools wanted
Date: Apr 13, 2008
I'm looking for any and all tools needed for a quickbuild RV-8. Thanks. _________________________________________________________________ Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refr esh_getintouch_042008 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kelly Meiste" <kellymeiste(at)jcwifi.com>
Subject: For Sale - Reserve Lift Gage (Angle of Attack) Kit
Date: Apr 13, 2008
My name is Kelly Meiste, I'm an EAA member (#623517) living in northwestern Illinois. I'm currently flying a Zenith Zodiac 601 (N601KM) that my son & I built back in 2002. The reason I'm writing to the RV list is to ask if anyone would be interested in purchasing a Reserve Lift Gage (Angle of Attack) kit that I manufacture. I'm sorry if anyone considers this message to be "Spam", if so please stop reading and delete this message now. To the rest of you I would like to offer an added safety feature for your plane, and its occupants which should be required in all homebuilt aircraft in my opinion. And offer it to you at a price that most everyone can afford. I originally fabricated a kit to use only on my plane. It worked so well that others have asked me to build one for them as well. It's now turned into a part time job, and as I'm hoping to retire soon I'm now looking into building these kits full time to keep me busy when I'm not flying. My kit is priced at less than half the cost of the kits currently on the market ($175 plus shipping), so I believe it's a good value for the money. It comes complete and ready to install in most any aircraft currently flying, or still under construction. Installation is fast and easy, normally only a few hours of your time will do it. If you would like to see my kit please visit my website lri.kit.googlepages.com Anyone wanting more info, or just ask questions, please contact me off the list at kellymeiste(at)jcwifi.com Thank you very much for your time, and once again I apologize to anyone who considers my posting to be "Spam". Kelly Meiste ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)AOL.COM
Date: Apr 13, 2008
Subject: Re: For Sale - Reserve Lift Gage (Angle of Attack) Kit
In a message dated 4/13/2008 6:39:51 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, kellymeiste(at)jcwifi.com writes: The reason I=99m writing to the RV list is to ask if anyone would be interested in purchasing a Reserve Lift Gage (Angle of Attack) kit that I m anufacture. I will add you to my Yeller Pages. Please be supportive of your customer base. ;o) N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 887hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley) **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larygagnon(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 13, 2008
Subject: Re: Tires and Brake Pads
I had just the left tire wearing on the outside faster then the right and swapping them got me to 140 hours before changing to Michelins. I had just one brake pad wear from too much pressure in one direction because the brake line got tweaked and put pressure on that side. I'm told the original tires are not known for there longevity. Larry Gagnon RV6 N6LG 160 hrs RV6A N3158Y Going to airport soon ************** It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Tires and Brake Pads
Date: Apr 13, 2008
Since I keep track of my number of landings and have done so for the last 11 years, I would like to comment on this. I hear this same question a lot, and it is a good one, of interest to all. One thing to understand why tires sometimes go in a hurry, is the rod spring gear. A marvelous design, elegantly simple. But in lieu of shock absorbing oleos, it uses a sprongy motion which scrubs the tires upon landing and uses the friction thus to dissipate the landing shock. My plane is an RV-6A. Since I am a cheapskate, I can assure you I use all known methods to extend brake and tire wear. I have logged 3600 landings in my 2100 hours. About 1.8 landings per hour. first to answer the question. My average landings per set has been between 250 and 500. Brakes are around 700. Most folks are in this range. Based on my numbers I would say you are doing well on tires, and not quite as well as you could on brakes. I would check for scorching, and other signs of dragging brakes. My opinion of why the huge variation? Some variables: type of tire, type of use (surface), braking/steering habits, landing/takeoff speeds, number if touch and goes, average weight. I reverse the tires when halfway through, and the outside gets smooth. My longest wearing tires have been the cheapest and the most expensive. Cheapest being the retreads , most expensive being the Goodyear FC III. My current philosophy is go for the middle grade. The retreads and FCIII are too heavy for my taste and I think more prone to shake. I love the new low leak tubes, and like to keep a higher pressure than most in the mains, 40psi. I prefer the other brand of pads (RAPCO). Wear is about the same as Cleveland, but Rapco has a wear indicator, which really helps me to check in the dim light under the wheel. My personal opinion is the best thing you can do to minimize yuor tire and brake wear is land and take off at the minimum speed. But if you are more comfortable landing fast go ahead, it won't break the bank. One last bit of free advice. Don't run on smooth tires. When you get both halves worn smooth, replace them, and the tubes please. DLW On Apr 13, 2008, at 4:38 PM, Garry wrote: > > What kind of hours are folks getting on tires and brake pads? I > have 135 hours on my 7A and the outside of the tires are bald and > the brake pads are worn about 90%. In talking with Vans they said > the original tires shipped with the kit aren't supposed to last more > than 100 hours........ditto with the brake pads. This doesn't make > sense to me. What kind of experience do others have? Also, any > recommendations on what brand of tires to replace them with? > > Garry Stout > Tampa, FL > garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lenleg(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Subject: Re: Sun N Fun Review
Thanks Dale .... I could not make it but now feel like I did !! Len In a message dated 4/13/2008 9:21:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dale1rv6(at)comcast.net writes: Here is my video of the Thunderbirds, Patty Flagstaff, and a few others. Dedicated to those that missed it, especially due to weather or high fuel cost. _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5lsWBkI3es_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5lsWBkI3es) The flagmen on the taxiways looked tired to me, I am thankful I don =99t have to do it. One parker did me a great service on my arrival, another at departure did his best to make me forget that but failed. Hope you enjoy the video, Dale RV6a (N241BD) 1000+ hrs ____________________________________ // Several friends are stuck in S. GA waiting on better winds... Kyle Boatright 2001 RV-6 N46KB ----- Original Message ----- From: _Eddie Moran_ (mailto:lizzardracing(at)yahoo.com) Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 4:38 PM Subject: RV-List: Sun N Fun Review Not impressed. Volunteers running the taxi squad mostly confused both in an out. Friends have the same stories. I camped with HBC and surrounded by RV's. All cool looking by the way. My Moose had 3 DC-3's taxi by with their wings over my aircrafts nose all the way to the wing? WTFO? When I went to leave Sunday, they sent me the wrong way twice. Adding abou t 20 min to my taxi time. Mass confusion IMHO. Any other observations? http://www.matronics.com/contribution (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry(at)mc.net>
Subject: Tires and Brake Pads
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Good Morning Listers ... A short intro from a guy off list for a year. I got off track while lost in my basement building guest quarters. That project is done so building and flying funds are more available. I live in Northern Illinois and at work on an RV8A. The subject ... (tires and brake pads) is on the list to do for an RV4 I fly. My question is about Airstop Tubes. What brand would you recommend and do I order straight tube stems or the bent ones? Thanks for any info and I'm happy to be back ... Jerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2008
From: Doug Weiler <dcw(at)mnwing.org>
Subject: Re: Tires and Brake Pads
Jerry: Personally I would not scrimp on tubes. I found that the cheap ones leak (especially those that come with Van's kits). Spring for quality Goodyear or Michelin. Money well spent. Doug Weiler N722DW, RV-4, 450 hrs Jerry Grimmonpre wrote: > > Good Morning Listers ... > A short intro from a guy off list for a year. I got off track while > lost in my basement building guest quarters. That project is done so > building and flying funds are more available. I live in Northern > Illinois and at work on an RV8A. > > The subject ... (tires and brake pads) is on the list to do for an RV4 > I fly. > > My question is about Airstop Tubes. What brand would you recommend and > do I order straight tube stems or the bent ones? > Thanks for any info and I'm happy to be back ... > Jerry > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "L Klingmuller" <l_klingmuller6(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Slick Magnetos overhaul
Date: Apr 14, 2008
If my recollection is correct, the points etc of the Slick magnetos should be checked/overhauled every 500 hrs. I just wonder what the experience has been with the RV list users. Having had much troubles with my original Lasar system (several different magnetos from Unison, harness, e-box, connectors) after appr. 80 hrs I switched over to regular Slick mags. Lothar, RV-6A, 750 hrs on new O-360A1A, ~ 680 hrs on new Slick ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2008
From: "Rob Prior" <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: Off topic and off the list
On 19:51 2008-04-13 "Steve Struyk" wrote: > For some time now I have grown tired of the off subject topics that, > do have their place on some forum somewhere, but in my opinion, not on > this forum. There are all sorts of forums one can participate in for > nearly any topic one wishes to explore. (republican or democrat) Take > your business there but leave this site as it was designed to be...an > RV builders forum. Count me #3. I've been watching the forum for 5 years while slowly working on my project. In that time the list has turned from a valuable resource for builders into a list full of people who have finished their projects and have nothing better to do than discuss topics not relevant to the forum. "Freedom vs. Priveledge", "How did you like SnF?", etc. "Don't like the topic? Don't read it!" the whiners say. Actually, most of us joined because the topics here were supposed to be relevant to RV's. So I say, "Don't want to talk about RV's? Don't post!" Just like it says in the RV-List Usage Guidelines (http://www.matronics.com/ftp/Archives/RV-List.FAQ.html). I'm wasting enough time already not building my plane... I don't need to waste my time deleting your off-topic posts as well. I know there are some new builders here. To those of you, I strongly suggest joining the specific forum for your type (RV-7-List, RV-6-List, etc.) as the volume is a lot lower and the signal-to-noise ratio is a lot higher. That's where i'm going. Thanks to everyone who's made useful, RV-related suggestions over the past 5 years. I saved most of them, have used some of them, and I plan to use more of them in the future. I just won't be back to thank you again when I do, because it would be lost in the noise anyway. -Rob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2008
From: Mike Divan <n343fd(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Off topic and off the list
I have a flying RV6 and building a RV7. Now I might not think this is the best place for some of the topics however I am not going to take my ball and go home (quit the list) just because I need to use the "delete" button a little more often from time to time. But my biggest question is how in the heck is talking about "SnF" not RV related???? And what now that people are flying they cannot talk about FLYING. Which to me is RV related in a big way. Do Not Arcive Mike Divan ----- Original Message ---- From: Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 10:37:12 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Off topic and off the list On 19:51 2008-04-13 "Steve Struyk" wrote: > For some time now I have grown tired of the off subject topics that, > do have their place on some forum somewhere, but in my opinion, not on > this forum. There are all sorts of forums one can participate in for > nearly any topic one wishes to explore. (republican or democrat) Take > your business there but leave this site as it was designed to be...an > RV builders forum. Count me #3. I've been watching the forum for 5 years while slowly working on my project. In that time the list has turned from a valuable resource for builders into a list full of people who have finished their projects and have nothing better to do than discuss topics not relevant to the forum. "Freedom vs. Priveledge", "How did you like SnF?", etc. "Don't like the topic? Don't read it!" the whiners say. Actually, most of us joined because the topics here were supposed to be relevant to RV's. So I say, "Don't want to talk about RV's? Don't post!" Just like it says in the RV-List Usage Guidelines (http://www.matronics.com/ftp/Archives/RV-List.FAQ.html). I'm wasting enough time already not building my plane... I don't need to waste my time deleting your off-topic posts as well. I know there are some new builders here. To those of you, I strongly suggest joining the specific forum for your type (RV-7-List, RV-6-List, etc.) as the volume is a lot lower and the signal-to-noise ratio is a lot higher. That's where i'm going. Thanks to everyone who's made useful, RV-related suggestions over the past 5 years. I saved most of them, have used some of them, and I plan to use more of them in the future. I just won't be back to thank you again when I do, because it would be lost in the noise anyway. -Rob Do Not Arcive Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JFLEISC(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Subject: Re: Tires and Brake Pads
In a message dated 4/13/2008 10:00:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Larygagnon(at)aol.com writes: I had just the left tire wearing on the outside faster then the right and swapping them got me to 140 hours before changing to Michelins. I had just one brake pad wear from too much pressure in one direction because the brake line got tweaked and put pressure on that side. I'm told the original tires are not known for there longevity. Dumb question; Where can I get some Michelins? I assume they are radial? Jim **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Subject: Re: Tires and Brake Pads
In a message dated 4/14/2008 3:27:11 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, JFLEISC(at)aol.com writes: Dumb question; Where can I get some Michelins? I assume they are radial? Desser N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 887hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley) **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2008
From: <jhstarn(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Tires and Brake Pads
We bought recaps for HRII N561FS but they have lots of options. "sales(at)desser.com or phone us at 800-247-8473 (323-721-4900 " KABONG Dumb question; Where can I get some Michelins? I assume they are radial?Desser N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 887hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Tires and Brake Pads
Date: Apr 15, 2008
I got just under 90 hours on the Aero Trainer tires that came with my finish kit in 2001, even after rotating them to even wear. I replaced them with Goodyear FClll's at that point and now have about 360 hours on the FClll's and estimate that they will need to be replaced in another 100 to 150 hours at the current rate of wear. I rotate and reverse them every 100 hours or so to even out wear. I also installed low leak tubes when I installed the GY FClll's and now have to add 1 or at most 2 psi every month or so instead of 4 or 5 psi every few weeks as I did with the original tubes. As I recall I paid about $120 each for the FClll's vs about $35 at the time for the lowest price brands from Desser. I will replace these with FClll's when the time comes. I'm on the second set of brake pads (Rapco) now at 460 hours and will probably have to replace these in another 100 hours or so. I average about two landings per hour and sometimes brake aggressively to make an early turn off but otherwise try to stay off the brakes as much as possible. -- Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, flying - 460 hours -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Garry" <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com> > > What kind of hours are folks getting on tires and brake pads? I have 135 > hours on my 7A and the outside of the tires are bald and the brake pads are > worn about 90%. In talking with Vans they said the original tires shipped > with the kit aren't supposed to last more than 100 hours........ditto with > the brake pads. This doesn't make sense to me. What kind of experience do > others have? Also, any recommendations on what brand of tires to replace > them with? > > Garry Stout > Tampa, FL > garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2008
From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RE: AD compliance / applicability
I'm amazed at the way we try and beat a dead horse. Glen takes a piece of documentation that's clearly for LSA (as he so kindly pointed out) and wants to apply it to ALL experimental aircraft to justify the stupid .... yeah, I said stupid .... position that you don't have to heed the ADs. For what purpose??? Who needs a specific directive on whether ADs apply to experimental aircraft???? Doesn't common sense suffice as a reason??? The FAA doesn't appear to want to enforce the ADs .... which makes it a moot point if you ignore the AD that makes your butt history amongst the living. However, if you take someone with you, I'm sure your survivors will not talk kindly of you when the lawyer starts talking about your total lack of comprehension when you certified that your airplane is airworthy when you take off. I've said before .... if you want to impress someone with your knowledge of all things aviation ..... then you need not worry about the ADs ..... and explain how your superior knowledge makes an AD not apply. The FAA isn't a proactive organization. It's reactive. (Thank God!) and there's bound to be loss of life (or a high potential for it) for them to issue the AD. So, just go out there and ignore all the ADs. You'll be the reason that ADs are mandated for experimentals too. I don't know Glen personally ..... or if he's playing devils advocate here .... but the bottom line is that ADs are there to protect your butt ...... and mine too, and to try and lower the accident rate which we pay dearly for. I really don't care if Glen (or any anti AD person) doesn't want to take the ADs as a heads up ..... but I do take offense at them trying to lead others down that path with the 'ADs don't apply' mantra. Sorry for the rant, but I think ignoring the ADs is a stupid pilot trick. Linn ..... working through the fuselage. glen matejcek wrote: > >Hi All- > >Well, believe it or not, and with the help of EAA's regulatory liaison, >I've gotten to the bottom of the whole AD / Amateur Built Experimental >issue. Really. > >But first: The FAA can't agree internally on the subject. Elements within >the FAA say they do apply, others say they don't, and yet a third faction >says they don't apply but should. And, get this, AC 39-7c is (legally >speaking) incorrect. Go figure. One reason the relevant documents have >not been cleaned up and clarified is that the FAA seems to want us to >believe that AD's do apply in order to increase the likelihood of our >taking corrective action when they are issued. > >The highest horsepower document on the subject comes to us from the Federal >Register. The fact that this document is in the register is what causes it >to trump all the other documents and opinions on the subject. The document >itself is all about LSA's, and it contains a table entitled Light-Sport >Aircraft Maintenance and Certification Requirements located within section >IV, Comparative Tables. This particular table compares the maintenance >and certification requirements of six different categories of aircraft, >including amateur built. It can be accessed at: > >http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFinalRule.nsf/c03aa95a6 >d5f3d57852564720071b601/1d47971728e12ba286256edf004385aa!OpenDocument > >Now, should one choose to look up the comparative data in this document, at >the cross reference of Amateur built and Airworthiness Directives, one >would find the wording leaves some room for ambiguity. However, if one >were to look at the adjacent entries for the various other certification >categories, the intent becomes quite clear. AD's are not issued against >our planes, nor anything installed in them. > >The foregoing does not relieve us of our requirements to address AD's. We >do not have to comply with an AD, but we do have to address an AD. For >example, the recent RSA AD calls for an A&P to do the work to be in >compliance. If I do the work myself, I will have addressed the AD without >being in compliance, as I am not an A&P. If we fail to address an AD, >either as owner / operator doing the work or as repairman / A&P performing >the condition inspection, we are liable for violation under the careless >and reckless provisions of part 91 of the FAR's, but not under part 39. > >Now, don't ask me to rationalize all the conflicting info available to us, >what one guy said, or the hard time one of us got from a particular fed. >At this point in time, the above represents the official position of the >folks at the top of the food chain. > >Bon appetit! > >glen matejcek >aerobubba(at)earthlink.net > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Tires and Brake Pads
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Hi Jerry, Good to hear from you once again and glad your back on the RV project.. I would recommend the Michelin Air Stop tubes. (I think Air Stop is their brand name). The wheels on my 6A require the bent stems. Had a flight last month out of 3CK with a friend. Was nice to see the old stomping grounds once again. Dale Ensing ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry(at)mc.net> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 9:21 AM Subject: RV-List: Tires and Brake Pads > > Good Morning Listers ... > A short intro from a guy off list for a year. I got off track while lost > in my basement building guest quarters. That project is done so building > and flying funds are more available. I live in Northern Illinois and at > work on an RV8A. > > The subject ... (tires and brake pads) is on the list to do for an RV4 I > fly. > > My question is about Airstop Tubes. What brand would you recommend and > do I order straight tube stems or the bent ones? > Thanks for any info and I'm happy to be back ... > Jerry > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2008
From: FASTPILOTRV8 <fastpilotrv8(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV8a Air Intake Seperates
RV8a intake duck splits at the seams on both side. I have a RV8a completed in 2002 and am on my second problem with my Air intake . I have the type that picks up fresh air on the left side of the cowling next to front mount prop governor (not in the center below the prop). Here is what happened this time during my condition inspection, I notice a crack on either side of the fiberglass duct that takes the intake air to my Bendix servo. I removed the fiberglass duct to find it was originally made in two pieces and was glued together. Well so much for the gluing process, it has literally has come apart at the seams. I was wondering if any one else has had this problem? If not please check your own intakes at about 375 hours. I have one of the first quick build kits to come off the boat and I am not quite sure where the fiberglass parts are made? My RV8a is a tightly cowled around IO-360 and the intake duct did rub on the lower cowl at shut down . I have cut out some of the S-Glass to make a little more clearance. Just and FYI if you have my type of air intake Dane RV8a ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2008
From: mr.gsun(at)gmail.com
Subject: Re: RV8a Air Intake Seperates
Well, I think I might have the same duct. My RV-7 was built in '04 and I'm the second owner. It has the IO-360 with a forward facing intake using a fiberglass duct that goes up to the bottom of the air intake on the left side of the cowl. I think it looks great with the smooth bottom cowl. I've not noticed any cracks yet. I'm at 280 hrs. Will keep a lookout. I do wonder if that is the best sort of arrangement, though. I don't think I get enough MP and TAS. (Are we ever satisfied?) Greg RV9A 60% done, but then I found a beautiful RV-7 to buy and fly!!! On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 8:10 PM, FASTPILOTRV8 wrote: > RV8a intake duck splits at the seams on both side. > > I have a RV8a completed in 2002 and am on my second problem with my Air > intake . I have the type that picks up fresh air on the left side of the > cowling next to front mount prop governor (not in the center below the > prop). Here is what happened this time during my condition inspection, I > notice a crack on either side of the fiberglass duct that takes the intake > air to my Bendix servo. I removed the fiberglass duct to find it was > originally made in two pieces and was glued together. Well so much for the > gluing process, it has literally has come apart at the seams. > > I was wondering if any one else has had this problem? > > If not please check your own intakes at about 375 hours. I have one of > the first quick build kits to come off the boat and I am not quite sure > where the fiberglass parts are made? My RV8a is a tightly cowled around > IO-360 and the intake duct did rub on the lower cowl at shut down . I have > cut out some of the S-Glass to make a little more clearance. > > Just and FYI if you have my type of air intake > > Dane > RV8a > ------------------------------ > Get the MapQuest Toolbar<http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003>, > Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Barrett" <2thman(at)cablespeed.com>
Subject: re: Cowling hinges
Date: Apr 15, 2008
John Testement wrote: I am really having a hard time getting the cowling hinges to go in. I believe some eyelets may have been bent a little out of alignment during paint prep. I would like to hear what others have done to realign the hinges and get hinge pins to go in more easily. The horse is out of the barn, so I'm sorry not to be able to help you easily solve the problem unless you're willing to replace the hinges, but I think this is one more reason to use Carbinge graphite hinges rather than the aluminum. You can't ding them or bend the eyelets. Regards, John Barrett, CEO Leading Edge Composites PO Box 428 Port Hadlock, WA 98339 www.carbinge.com Checked by AVG. 9:26 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Off topic and off the list
From: "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com>
Date: Apr 15, 2008
> Don't read it!" the whiners say. Actually, most of > us joined > "How did you like SnF?", > rv7(at)b4.ca > Guest > I really love people who tell us how long they have been valuable contributers but are still listed as guests. I guess filling out the profile is not RV related. What terrible punishment to suffer when one of the unregistered thought police quits the list. So Rob as one of the whiners you can just kiss my ass. -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176939#176939 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: list member or guest?
Date: Apr 15, 2008
What profile are you referrring to Milt? I have been on the list since 1996 and don't remember any profile. Maybe it has been so long and my old brain erased that memory. Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:45 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: Off topic and off the list > I really love people who tell us how long they have been valuable > contributers but are still listed as guests. I guess filling out the > profile is not RV related. > Milt > 2003 F1 Rocket > 2006 Radial Rocket ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2008
From: Bob <panamared5(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: Off topic and off the list
>I really love people who tell us how long they have been valuable >contributers but are still listed as guests. I guess filling out the >profile is not RV related. > >What terrible punishment to suffer when one of the unregistered >thought police quits the list. What profile? A few comments on the state of the list. 1. Back when the list started, RVs were a lot, lot less pre-fabbed. 2. Back when I started building the plans and instructions were good, but in the last 15 years they have gotten much better. 3. When I was building there were no or very few "how to" pictures on the Web, now a builder does not have to travel to see a built RV to understand how to do something, he can view it on the Web. 4. As the RV kits become more of an assembly process, there are a lot less questions on how to do things. 5. When I was building and I had a question that I called Van's for an answer, about part A not fitting to part B, the answer was "Make It Fit"!!!!!??! Now you can ask the RV list and get a thousand of replies and probably one will have the answer you are looking for. I can understand the frustration that new builders have. They want a list with just the answers that they are searching for. But, to keep the knowledgeable people on the list, there has to be something in it for them (like how did things go at SnF). I often do not provide "builder how to info" because how I built my RV in 1995 is not how they are necessarily built now? Besides, my kit is not even offered anymore, it is obsolete, OBE, a legacy, a has been! I still really like it, especially how it flies. I have often felt that I could have finished my RV two years sooner if I had not been on the list. It would not have been as good a product, and I stayed on the list by choice. This is the same choice everyone else gets to make. I don't think the list cares if someone quits with the intent of punishing the list. Sometimes I think the list is being punished by those who stay on it (like maybe me and this post??), just kidding!!?! Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <bmeyette(at)gmail.com>
Subject: list member or guest?
Date: Apr 15, 2008
I think it's the difference between people who are on via their email and people who are on via the web software - profiles & other info/options only show up for people using the web software -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 10:50 AM Subject: RV-List: list member or guest? What profile are you referrring to Milt? I have been on the list since 1996 and don't remember any profile. Maybe it has been so long and my old brain erased that memory. Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:45 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: Off topic and off the list > I really love people who tell us how long they have been valuable > contributers but are still listed as guests. I guess filling out the > profile is not RV related. > Milt > 2003 F1 Rocket > 2006 Radial Rocket Checked by AVG. AM Checked by AVG. AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: re: Cowling hinges
Date: Apr 15, 2008
From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com>
-------------------------- John Testement wrote: I am really having a hard time getting the cowling hinges to go in. I believe some eyelets may have been bent a little out of alignment during paint prep. I would like to hear what others have done to realign the hinges and get hinge pins to go in more easily. -------------------------- I used my Dremel tool with a ball-end shaped bit about 1/8" dia. and 'dished' the ends of my eyelets. That made a dramatic improvement for inserting the pins in my cowl. If that doesn't help enough, I'd suggest inserting the pins in the cowl when off the plane - where you can see if any eyelets are out of alignment, or at least where the pin gets hung up. Dennis Glaeser ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2008
From: scott bilinski <rv8a2001(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: re: Cowling hinges
Vans sells a hinge pin that is slightly undersize, do not used the hinge pin that came with the hinge. The first time I installed mine they were difficult also. I put a point on the pin then placed it in a drill in a drill and they went right in. After a few hours of flight they will go in and out eaisy. Scott RV-8a ----- Original Message ---- From: John Barrett <2thman(at)cablespeed.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 6:33:51 AM Subject: RV-List: re: Cowling hinges John Testement wrote: I am really having a hard time getting the cowling hinges to go in. I believe some eyelets may have been bent a little out of alignment during paint prep. I would like to hear what others have done to realign the hinges and get hinge pins to go in more easily. The horse is out of the barn, so I'm sorry not to be able to help you easily solve the problem unless you're willing to replace the hinges, but I think this is one more reason to use Carbinge graphite hinges rather than the aluminum. You can't ding them or bend the eyelets. Regards, John Barrett, CEO Leading Edge Composites PO Box 428 Port Hadlock, WA 98339 www.carbinge.com Checked by AVG. 9:26 AM Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: re: Cowling hinges
Date: Apr 15, 2008
Hi John, I found that squeezing the rivets during installation distorted the hinge eyelets enough to make installing the pins very difficult. My solution as follows: Tools; A small light ball peen hammer and a 1/8th" or 3/16th" drift pin punch. The pins on mine are installed from the rear on my 6-A. this meant that I had to stand the taped together cowling halves on their nose. I put them on some padding for damage control. If your pins install from the front you will need some saw horses and a short stool. A helper to keep the cowling from slipping off the sawhorses will likely be needed as well. Assemble the two cowling halves with masking tape insert the pins in as far as they will easily go. look closely at the eyelets that the point where the pin jams. Using the punch and hammer and only as much force as is needed gently tap the offending eyelet into alignment. Push the pin in to the next jamb point repeat this process until the hinge pin again moves easily enough. Then move on again. I first tried to do this without the drift punch and found the punch offered much better control. Since doing this procedure the pins install bare handed with out struggle and there are no visible signs of stress in any of the eyelets or on the pins. I only have 50 hours on GIIG so its a bit early to see such stresses anyhow. I hope this helps, Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Barrett" <2thman(at)cablespeed.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 6:33 AM Subject: RV-List: re: Cowling hinges > > John Testement wrote: I am really having a hard time getting the cowling > hinges to go in. I believe some eyelets may have been bent a little out of > alignment during paint prep. I would like to hear what others have done to > realign the hinges and get hinge pins to go in more easily. > > The horse is out of the barn, so I'm sorry not to be able to help you > easily > solve the problem unless you're willing to replace the hinges, but I think > this is one more reason to use Carbinge graphite hinges rather than the > aluminum. You can't ding them or bend the eyelets. > > > Regards, > > John Barrett, CEO > Leading Edge Composites > PO Box 428 > Port Hadlock, WA 98339 > www.carbinge.com > > > Checked by AVG. > 9:26 AM > > > -- > Checked by AVG. > 4/15/2008 9:12 AM > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: list member or guest?
From: "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com>
Date: Apr 15, 2008
Dale Ensing wrote: > What profile are you referrring to Milt? I have been on the list since 1996 > and don't remember any profile. Maybe it has been so long and my old brain > erased that memory. > Dale > --- Dale if you are browsing it as a forum there is a link in the header titled profile where you can post some info about yourself and customize how your posts appear. Below is the profile you filled out in January of 2006 Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Total posts: 409 [0.24% of total / 0.50 posts per day] Find all posts by Dale Ensing Location: Aero Plantation Weddington NC Website: Occupation: Retired National Accounts Mgr Interests: Sailing I remember filling one out back in 2002 before it was available as a forum. Not that there are any advantages to filling in the profile it is just nice to know a little about someone whose advice you might be accepting and it helps to know total posts as a more active member is likely a more active or knowledgeable builder. That is assuming those posts appear to offer some degree of expertise. As a guest there is no way of knowing how long someone has been around and weighing their contribution. -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177035#177035 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2008
From: Glen Matejcek <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: AD compliance / applicability
Having a bad day, Linn? Clearly, you misunderstood my post. Let me recap it in small sound bites: 1-AD's don't apply to experimentals, per FAA legal in DC as well as EAA HQ. 2-AD's MUST be addressed. To understand the difference between these two statements, read the original post. 3-I have never said anything remotely like ".... position that you don't have to heed the ADs." What I said was "The foregoing does not relieve us of our requirements to address AD's. We do not have to comply with an AD, but we do have to address an AD." 4-With regard to: "I really don't care if Glen (or any anti AD person) doesn't want to take the ADs as a heads up ..... but I do take offense at them trying to lead others down that path with the 'ADs don't apply' mantra." Actually, I care. A lot. That's why I tried to not only point out that this needs to be done, but whys and wherefores of it, and all the time knowing full well in advance that there is always the possibility of being on the recieving end of someone's tirade. On a more personal note, I subscribe to the AD's appropriate to my equipment. As one of our best contemporary philosophers put it: "Stupid is as stupid does" Or should I say RTFP? > >From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> >Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: AD compliance / applicability > > >I'm amazed at the way we try and beat a dead horse. Glen takes a piece >of documentation that's clearly for LSA (as he so kindly pointed out) >and wants to apply it to ALL experimental aircraft to justify the stupid >.... yeah, I said stupid .... position that you don't have to heed the >ADs. For what purpose??? Who needs a specific directive on whether ADs >apply to experimental aircraft???? Doesn't common sense suffice as a >reason??? The FAA doesn't appear to want to enforce the ADs .... which >makes it a moot point if you ignore the AD that makes your butt history >amongst the living. However, if you take someone with you, I'm sure >your survivors will not talk kindly of you when the lawyer starts >talking about your total lack of comprehension when you certified that >your airplane is airworthy when you take off. I've said before .... if >you want to impress someone with your knowledge of all things aviation >..... then you need not worry about the ADs ..... and explain how your >superior knowledge makes an AD not apply. The FAA isn't a proactive >organization. It's reactive. (Thank God!) and there's bound to be loss >of life (or a high potential for it) for them to issue the AD. So, just >go out there and ignore all the ADs. You'll be the reason that ADs are >mandated for experimentals too. > >I don't know Glen personally ..... or if he's playing devils advocate >here .... but the bottom line is that ADs are there to protect your butt >...... and mine too, and to try and lower the accident rate which we pay >dearly for. > >I really don't care if Glen (or any anti AD person) doesn't want to take >the ADs as a heads up ..... but I do take offense at them trying to lead >others down that path with the 'ADs don't apply' mantra. > >Sorry for the rant, but I think ignoring the ADs is a stupid pilot trick. >Linn ..... working through the fuselage. > > >glen matejcek wrote: > >> >>Hi All- >> >>Well, believe it or not, and with the help of EAA's regulatory liaison, >>I've gotten to the bottom of the whole AD / Amateur Built Experimental >>issue. Really. >> >>But first: The FAA can't agree internally on the subject. Elements within >>the FAA say they do apply, others say they don't, and yet a third faction >>says they don't apply but should. And, get this, AC 39-7c is (legally >>speaking) incorrect. Go figure. One reason the relevant documents have >>not been cleaned up and clarified is that the FAA seems to want us to >>believe that AD's do apply in order to increase the likelihood of our >>taking corrective action when they are issued. >> >>The highest horsepower document on the subject comes to us from the Federal >>Register. The fact that this document is in the register is what causes it >>to trump all the other documents and opinions on the subject. The document >>itself is all about LSA's, and it contains a table entitled Light-Sport >>Aircraft Maintenance and Certification Requirements located within section >>IV, Comparative Tables. This particular table compares the maintenance >>and certification requirements of six different categories of aircraft, >>including amateur built. It can be accessed at: >> >>http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFinalRule.nsf/c03aa95a6 >>d5f3d57852564720071b601/1d47971728e12ba286256edf004385aa!OpenDocument >> >>Now, should one choose to look up the comparative data in this document, at >>the cross reference of Amateur built and Airworthiness Directives, one >>would find the wording leaves some room for ambiguity. However, if one >>were to look at the adjacent entries for the various other certification >>categories, the intent becomes quite clear. AD's are not issued against >>our planes, nor anything installed in them. >> >>The foregoing does not relieve us of our requirements to address AD's. We >>do not have to comply with an AD, but we do have to address an AD. For >>example, the recent RSA AD calls for an A&P to do the work to be in >>compliance. If I do the work myself, I will have addressed the AD without >>being in compliance, as I am not an A&P. If we fail to address an AD, >>either as owner / operator doing the work or as repairman / A&P performing >>the condition inspection, we are liable for violation under the careless >>and reckless provisions of part 91 of the FAR's, but not under part 39. >> >>Now, don't ask me to rationalize all the conflicting info available to us, >>what one guy said, or the hard time one of us got from a particular fed. >>At this point in time, the above represents the official position of the >>folks at the top of the food chain. >> >>Bon appetit! >> >>glen matejcek >>aerobubba(at)earthlink.net Glen Matejcek ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: list member or guest?
Date: Apr 15, 2008
Thanks Milt. Dale do not achieve ----- Original Message ----- From: "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 4:21 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: list member or guest? > > > Dale Ensing wrote: >> What profile are you referrring to Milt? I have been on the list since >> 1996 >> and don't remember any profile. Maybe it has been so long and my old >> brain >> erased that memory. >> Dale ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Trevor" <davist(at)xsinet.co.za>
Subject: RV8a Air Intake Seperates
Date: Apr 16, 2008
I haven't flown my -7 yet, but after hours of re-modelling the intake and giving it a nice paint job, (it was too wide and the intake had to be rotated 90 deg) I accidently dropped it while trying to mount it. Lo and behold - it split both its seams! Popped open all along the glued surfaces! The later kits have far superior ducts now and they just about fit as well! Trevor RV-7 South Africa One 90% done, second about 40% ----- Original Message ----- From: mr.gsun(at)gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:11 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8a Air Intake Seperates Well, I think I might have the same duct. My RV-7 was built in '04 and I'm the second owner. It has the IO-360 with a forward facing intake using a fiberglass duct that goes up to the bottom of the air intake on the left side of the cowl. I think it looks great with the smooth bottom cowl. I've not noticed any cracks yet. I'm at 280 hrs. Will keep a lookout. I do wonder if that is the best sort of arrangement, though. I don't think I get enough MP and TAS. (Are we ever satisfied?) Greg RV9A 60% done, but then I found a beautiful RV-7 to buy and fly!!! On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 8:10 PM, FASTPILOTRV8 wrote: RV8a intake duck splits at the seams on both side. I have a RV8a completed in 2002 and am on my second problem with my Air intake . I have the type that picks up fresh air on the left side of the cowling next to front mount prop governor (not in the center below the prop). Here is what happened this time during my condition inspection, I notice a crack on either side of the fiberglass duct that takes the intake air to my Bendix servo. I removed the fiberglass duct to find it was originally made in two pieces and was glued together. Well so much for the gluing process, it has literally has come apart at the seams. I was wondering if any one else has had this problem? If not please check your own intakes at about 375 hours. I have one of the first quick build kits to come off the boat and I am not quite sure where the fiberglass parts are made? My RV8a is a tightly cowled around IO-360 and the intake duct did rub on the lower cowl at shut down . I have cut out some of the S-Glass to make a little more clearance. Just and FYI if you have my type of air intake Dane RV8a ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Get the MapQuest Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Bell" <carlbell(at)gforcecable.com>
Subject: Re: RV8-List: Re: RV8- Sikaflex Canopy Info
Date: Apr 15, 2008
Hi I am also working on my canopy and would like the use Sika. Has anyone out their done it on an RV 7 or RV 9 slider using the horizontal square side tube that runs from the forward bow the rear bow? If so out did you attach the canopy skirt with out drilling? Any help is really appreciated. I have printed all the articles, instruction and list information, but I mostly find RV 8 instructions. I could really use some help on how to do it on a RV 7 Slider. Thanks CJ _____ From: owner-rv8-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of japhillipsga(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 2:14 PM Subject: RV8-List: Re: RV8- Sikaflex Canopy Info Dear Builders, I'm going to use Sika adhesive to attach my canopy. Todd's canopy's has a couple page DIY instructions from Bob & Karen Brown that describes the U295, cleaner and primer process. When I found the Sika products on the web there are various cleaners and primers listed and the only 295 is listed as 295UV not U295. I understand you have to have the correct three products. Who out there knows is 295UV the same as U295 ? and which primer and cleaner is appropriate for the canopy and 295 adhesive? I appreciate any help, thanks, Bill of Georgia -----Original Message----- From: RV8-List Digest Server <rv8-list(at)matronics.com> Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 2:57 am Subject: RV8-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 04/14/08 * Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive Today's complete RV8-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the RV8-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 <http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapte r 08-04-14&Archive=RV8> &View=html&Chapter 08-04-14&Archive=RV8 Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 <http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 08-04-14&Archive=RV8> &View=txt&Chapter 08-04-14&Archive=RV8 ====================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ====================== ---------------------------------------------------------- RV8-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 04/14/08: 0 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- _____ Get the MapQuest <http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003> Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Fasching" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
Subject: Louvers on the bottom of the cowling on RV6A
Date: Apr 15, 2008
I am considering putting the louvers that Avery (and perhaps others) sell on the bottom cowling of my RV6A. I do not have a temperature problem but I know there is a build up of pressure in that area and I wondered if allowing more 'escape' area for the cooling air from across the cylinder heads would not reduce cooling drag and perhaps give me a minor bit of speed increase, or if not, then the ability to operate in REALLY hot climates with full power and have lots of cooling air flow. Also, those who have done this, how did you mount the lourvers? Just rivet them on the exterior of the lower cowl, inside the cowling, or do some inletting, or what? Other observations? You comments/experience would be appreciated. RV6A flying now 13-years. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Knicholas2(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 15, 2008
Subject: Tire size distinction.
Here is a dumb question.... The nose wheel on my RV9A went flat and I needed a tire and tube in a hurry. The size on the tire that I got from Van's reads 11 x 4.00 -5. I tried to find a Michelin or Goodyear tire but everyone I called was confused by the size distinction. So.... is there some magic secret code or conversion when buying a different brand of tire ? What is the equivilant tire size in Michelin or Goodyear? Thanks, Kim Nicholas RV9A Auburn, WA **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Louvers on the bottom of the cowling on RV6A
Date: Apr 15, 2008
These are #8 bolts I believe with washer and nut on the inside: http://home.pcisys.net/~ronlee/RV6A/Cowl_Louver_Small.jpg Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 15, 2008
Subject: Re: Tire size distinction.
In a message dated 4/15/2008 5:57:54 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Knicholas2(at)aol.com writes: The nose wheel on my RV9A went flat and I needed a tire and tube in a hurry. The size on the tire that I got from Van's reads 11 x 4.00 -5. I tried to find a Michelin or Goodyear tire but everyone I called was confused by the size distinction. So.... is there some magic secret code or conversion when buying a different brand of tire ? What is the equivalent tire size in Michelin or Goodyear? ============================================ The only known ones I am aware of are Lamb (I think now obsolete) and Cheng Shin, and 11X4.00-5 6-ply is the correct designation. ACS has them. Change the tube too. N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 887hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley) **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Tire size distinction.
Date: Apr 15, 2008
Suggestion: Always have a spare main/nose tire and tube. I always take that when I travel. Ron Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: Knicholas2(at)aol.com To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 6:49 PM Subject: RV-List: Tire size distinction. Here is a dumb question.... The nose wheel on my RV9A went flat and I needed a tire and tube in a hurry. The size on the tire that I got from Van's reads 11 x 4.00 -5. I tried to find a Michelin or Goodyear tire but everyone I called was confused by the size distinction. So.... is there some magic secret code or conversion when buying a different brand of tire ? What is the equivilant tire size in Michelin or Goodyear? Thanks, Kim Nicholas RV9A Auburn, WA ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2008
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Tire size distinction.
Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/15/2008 5:57:54 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > Knicholas2(at)aol.com writes: > > The nose wheel on my RV9A went flat and I needed a tire and tube in a hurry. > The size on the tire that I got from Van's reads 11 x 4.00 -5. I tried > to find a Michelin or Goodyear tire but everyone I called was confused by the > size distinction. > > So.... is there some magic secret code or conversion when buying a > different brand of tire ? What is the equivalent tire size in Michelin or Goodyear? > > > > ============================================ > > The only known ones I am aware of are Lamb (I think now obsolete) and Cheng > Shin, and 11X4.00-5 6-ply is the correct designation. ACS has them. > > Change the tube too. And by all means carry a spare tube in the plane! Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2008
From: "Craig Hagen" <chagen(at)hagenrealestate.com>
Subject: Re: Louvers on the bottom of the cowling on RV6A
John, This was just finished on my RV6A this past week. I was having a CHT and oil temp problem so it was part of the remedy plan. The outside air temps are not high enough to verify success, however. I wanted to install the louvers on the inside of the cowl but the thickness of the fiberglass honeycomb on the bottom looked like it would be a problem as to final finished look (my plane is painted). The louvers were installed on the bottom, outside of the cowl. I had the louvers powder coated to a color very close to my a/c paint color, beveled the edges and used screws with locking nuts. Before installation, I put rtv over the open cut of the honeycomb. I also added additional heat shield material in side the cowl and over the honeycomb and onto the outside of the cowl (but under the louver). I just don't want the heat to attack the open honeycomb of the fiberglass. I purchased my louvers from Alex D. Hope this helps. Craig Hagen N289CH RV6A 420 hours ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "John Fasching" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:19:33 -0600 >I am considering putting the louvers that Avery (and perhaps others) sell on the bottom cowling of my RV6A. I do not have a temperature problem but I know there is a build up of pressure in that area and I wondered if allowing more 'escape' area for the cooling air from across the cylinder heads would not reduce cooling drag and perhaps give me a minor bit of speed increase, or if not, then the ability to operate in REALLY hot climates with full power and have lots of cooling air flow. > >Also, those who have done this, how did you mount the lourvers? Just rivet them on the exterior of the lower cowl, inside the cowling, or do some inletting, or what? Other observations? > >You comments/experience would be appreciated. > >RV6A flying now 13-years. > > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at hagenrealestate.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com>
Subject: Re: Louvers on the bottom of the cowling on RV6A
Date: Apr 15, 2008
See page 6 of this newsletter... http://www.eaa105.org/Newsletter/nl-200709.pdf Randy Lervold www.rv3works.com ----- Original Message ----- From: John Fasching To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 5:19 PM Subject: RV-List: Louvers on the bottom of the cowling on RV6A I am considering putting the louvers that Avery (and perhaps others) sell on the bottom cowling of my RV6A. I do not have a temperature problem but I know there is a build up of pressure in that area and I wondered if allowing more 'escape' area for the cooling air from across the cylinder heads would not reduce cooling drag and perhaps give me a minor bit of speed increase, or if not, then the ability to operate in REALLY hot climates with full power and have lots of cooling air flow. Also, those who have done this, how did you mount the lourvers? Just rivet them on the exterior of the lower cowl, inside the cowling, or do some inletting, or what? Other observations? You comments/experience would be appreciated. RV6A flying now 13-years. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 15, 2008
Subject: Re: re: Cowling hinges
In a message dated 04/15/2008 8:40:17 AM Central Daylight Time, 2thman(at)cablespeed.com writes: John Testement wrote: I am really having a hard time getting the cowling hinges to go in. I believe some eyelets may have been bent a little out of alignment during paint prep. I would like to hear what others have done to realign the hinges and get hinge pins to go in more easily. >>> Aluminum hinge eyes can be easily bent back into alignment- if the pin easily slides through both halves of the cowling individually, then what you have is something preventing the eyes from each hinge half from aligning. Carefully look for anything between each eye that may prevent this- one telltale is a dark spot where the opposite hinge half is rubbing on the other part. >From The PossumWorks in TN Mark Phillips, RV-6A "Mojo" almost 500 hours with cowl and wingtips attached with good 'ol aluminum hinge... _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/) **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 16, 2008
Subject: Re: Louvers on the bottom of the cowling on RV6A
In a message dated 04/15/2008 7:27:00 PM Central Daylight Time, n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com writes: I am considering putting the louvers that Avery (and perhaps others) sell on the bottom cowling >>> On my -6A, I opted for a simple cover plate held by 4 platenuts to cover the slot aft of the nose leg vs. the complicated mechanisms described in the manual for the pivoting cover and associated bracketry. I believe this allowed better airflow due to nothing interfering with exit air in the area. Cools fine, but only 150 hp. _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5289_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5289) I recently worked on a -7A with an IO-360 using a Vetterman rear-crossover system. While discussing the rear hangars with Larry Vetterman himself, he claimed that the only way they could get sufficient cooling on this system (nose OR taildragger) was to add the louvers. After ruminating on this a bit, I instead fabricated a small plate at the rear of the gearleg slot that literally "spreads" the slot wider- this causes the cowling outlet to curve downward, increasing the size of the opening about 10-15%, I'd estimate. Platenuts on each side of the plate are used to tie the cowl halves together and also serve as rear mounting points for the Fairings-etc. nosegear intersection fairing. This Florida-based -7A has no cooling issues so far... >From The PossumWorks in TN Mark _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/) **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jef Vervoort" <jef.vervoortw(at)telenet.be>
Subject: Sikaflex Canopy Info
Date: Apr 16, 2008
This is the slider that I know of http://www.skypassion.com/web-content/FUSELAGE/Project.html . You can find him also via Vans website - Links- RV7 - Paul Paeleman, Belgium. I myself am preparing also my sliding canopy for this application; the most critical part until now is to have a good ( perfect ?) fit of the plexi around the forward and rear bow. Jef Vervoort; 91031. _____ Van: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] Namens Carl Bell Verzonden: woensdag 16 april 2008 0:17 Aan: rv-list(at)matronics.com Onderwerp: RV-List: RV8-List: Re: RV8- Sikaflex Canopy Info Hi I am also working on my canopy and would like the use Sika. Has anyone out their done it on an RV 7 or RV 9 slider using the horizontal square side tube that runs from the forward bow the rear bow? If so out did you attach the canopy skirt with out drilling? Any help is really appreciated. I have printed all the articles, instruction and list information, but I mostly find RV 8 instructions. I could really use some help on how to do it on a RV 7 Slider. Thanks CJ _____ From: owner-rv8-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of japhillipsga(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 2:14 PM Subject: RV8-List: Re: RV8- Sikaflex Canopy Info Dear Builders, I'm going to use Sika adhesive to attach my canopy. Todd's canopy's has a couple page DIY instructions from Bob & Karen Brown that describes the U295, cleaner and primer process. When I found the Sika products on the web there are various cleaners and primers listed and the only 295 is listed as 295UV not U295. I understand you have to have the correct three products. Who out there knows is 295UV the same as U295 ? and which primer and cleaner is appropriate for the canopy and 295 adhesive? I appreciate any help, thanks, Bill of Georgia -----Original Message----- From: RV8-List Digest Server <rv8-list(at)matronics.com> Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 2:57 am Subject: RV8-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 04/14/08 * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Louvers on the bottom of the cowling on RV6A
From: "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com>
Date: Apr 16, 2008
I had serious CHT problems in my F1 especially climbing on hot days or fully loaded.. Glassed the louvers in the lower cowl. Project can be seen here..... http://www.bearcataviation.com/album_frame.asp?menuID=6 Amazing difference in CHTs after. Did not see any change in speed or performance. -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177166#177166 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sikaflex Canopy Info
From: "rvtach" <rvtach(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 16, 2008
I Sika Flexed my -7A slider which has the square side bows. I documented the process I used in a Picasa photo album: http://picasaweb.google.com/rvtach/GluingMySliderCanopy Read the long paragraph on the left hand side of the page for an overview and then click on the "slideshow" button to see the photos and descriptions. Hope this helps. -------- Jim McChesney Tucson, AZ RV-7A Finishing Kit Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177175#177175 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 16, 2008
Subject: Sikaflex Canopy Info
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Hi Jef, I have a "9-A" and used the Sikaflex system to attach the canopy to my a/c. The rear canopy has the sikaflex on all attachment areas except along the horiz square tube for the skirt. The front bow and the center support that runs from the front bow to the rear bow and the rear bow are all bonded to the frame. I chose to drill the skirts and use bolts there. There is one issue that must be considered when using the sikaflex system. The canopy will be spaced upward from the normal position. If you have cut the canopy to fit before you take this into consideration, your aluminum skirts will be to short. Ask me how I know. I did a fiberglass rear skirt in place of the aluminum one from Van's. It sure makes a snug leakproof (?) fit. The same issue goes for the front wind screen. So take that into consideration when trimming the bottom of each plexiglass part. You can see my project on the sikaflex canopy at www.websites.expercraft.com/jimn . It took around a month or so to do the sikaflex attachment. Doing the regular attachment via Van's directions is much faster. Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Barrett" <2thman(at)cablespeed.com>
Subject: re:Cowling Hinges
Date: Apr 16, 2008
John, I had another thought. We sell .085" diameter pins. You might try some of this material. These are smaller than the standard aluminum hinge pins and might go to place easily for you. If the hinge loosens up over time, you might be able to go back to the original. Regards, John Barrett, CEO Leading Edge Composites PO Box 428 Port Hadlock, WA 98339 www.carbinge.com Checked by AVG. 6:10 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: list member or guest?
From: "Bubblehead" <jdalman2000(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 16, 2008
Since I see this list via email it took me a while to remember how to find the "forum" itself so I could check out my own profile. For those of you still confused, try this: 1) go to http://forums.matronics.com 2) log in 3) click "profile" Then you can see what everyone is talking about. I checked mine - not much info but the essentials are there. -------- John Dalman Elburn, IL RV-8 N247TD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177189#177189 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty" <jfogarty(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: re: Cowling hinges
Date: Apr 16, 2008
Mark, I just want you to know you have some great idea's, I for one always enjoy reading your post and going to your website. If you are building an RV make sure you take the time to visit Mark's website. Thanks. Jim RV9a ----- Original Message ----- From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 10:34 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: re: Cowling hinges In a message dated 04/15/2008 8:40:17 AM Central Daylight Time, 2thman(at)cablespeed.com writes: John Testement wrote: I am really having a hard time getting the cowling hinges to go in. I believe some eyelets may have been bent a little out of alignment during paint prep. I would like to hear what others have done to realign the hinges and get hinge pins to go in more easily. >>> Aluminum hinge eyes can be easily bent back into alignment- if the pin easily slides through both halves of the cowling individually, then what you have is something preventing the eyes from each hinge half from aligning. Carefully look for anything between each eye that may prevent this- one telltale is a dark spot where the opposite hinge half is rubbing on the other part. From The PossumWorks in TN Mark Phillips, RV-6A "Mojo" almost 500 hours with cowl and wingtips attached with good 'ol aluminum hinge... http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 4/15/2008 9:12 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Bell" <carlbell(at)gforcecable.com>
Subject: Re: Sikaflex Canopy Info
Date: Apr 16, 2008
Hi Jim, This looks great; I was contemplating a1/2" aluminum angel where you have the triangle fillet set back far enough to allow for 1/8" of Sika Flex. Do you think this is a good idea or overkill? Have you glued on your windscreen? Are you happy with the way it all worked out? I was really was surprised with gluing your skirt down in the back, Does it look like it is strong enough? Sorry for all the questions, but I'm just trying to learn from your experience and I do worry about part flying off at 200mph. Thanks for the help. Carl Carl W Bell New Venture Consulting Mobile: 803.640.2760 www.newventureconsulting.com carlbell(at)gforcecable.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rvtach Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:24 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: Sikaflex Canopy Info I Sika Flexed my -7A slider which has the square side bows. I documented the process I used in a Picasa photo album: http://picasaweb.google.com/rvtach/GluingMySliderCanopy Read the long paragraph on the left hand side of the page for an overview and then click on the "slideshow" button to see the photos and descriptions. Hope this helps. -------- Jim McChesney Tucson, AZ RV-7A Finishing Kit Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177175#177175 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: list member or guest?
From: "N38CW" <billsettle(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Apr 16, 2008
Milt, Thanks for the info about registering. I always assumed I was "registered" since I got the email, but I guess I wasn't. I am now. -------- Bill Settle RV-8 Wings (Still) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177292#177292 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 16, 2008
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RV-4 Navaid installation question
Anyone out there with a Navaid servo installed in the fuselage of a -4 who has pictures to share? I recently purchased a used one & I'd like to avoid drilling off the wing tip, if possible. Thanks, Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Fasching" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
Subject: Re: Louvers on the bottom of the cowling on RV6A
Date: Apr 16, 2008
Thanks for the photo Ron, that shows me what I wanted to know. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 16, 2008
Subject: Sikaflex Canopy Info
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Carl, The sika flex is strong stuff. I did bolt the sides of the canopy to the square rail. Maybe I was a bit chicken. But I used about 3/8" gap for the adhesive. You need space to allow for the expansion of the plexi in the heat. The gap on the back is much less around 1/4" or so. The windshield was no problem. Just remember that you need to cut the bottom of the plexi after you space the canopy upward to allow for the glue spacing. I had to remake the side skirts because I forgot about that. THe fiberglass that you put around the bottomof the windshield keep things in place. Plus you put the fiberglass "ring" around the top to cover the gap between the rear and front canopy. I think it will be there for a long.time. Fun priject that added about 6 weeks total to the job. But then I have only a few bolt holes on the square tube. Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Cudney <yenduc(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Prop wrench
Date: Apr 16, 2008
> I am torquing my Hartzel constant speed prop. I need a crow's foot > to work with my 3/8 inch torque wrench with at least a 3 inch > offset. I recall reading that someone, perhaps Dan, made one by > welding a 3/8 adapter onto a stub of a 3/4 inch open end wrench. > Surely there must be a tool available out there somewhere. Anyone > have a source? > > > thanks dave > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 16, 2008
From: "Larry Bowen" <larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: Re: Prop wrench
One option: http://bowenaero.com/mt/2005/04/prop-torque-adapter.html -- Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 11:01 PM, David Cudney wrote: > > I am torquing my Hartzel constant speed prop. I need a crow's foot to > > work with my 3/8 inch torque wrench with at least a 3 inch offset. I recall > > reading that someone, perhaps Dan, made one by welding a 3/8 adapter onto a > > stub of a 3/4 inch open end wrench. Surely there must be a tool available > > out there somewhere. Anyone have a source? > > > > > > thanks dave > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Prop wrench
From: "Rick Galati" <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 17, 2008
[quote="yenduc(at)sbcglobal.net"] > I am torquing my Hartzel constant speed prop.............Surely there must be a tool available out there somewhere. Anyone have a source? thanks dave Seems to me the easiest solution without having to go through a lot of monkey motion or cobbing something together is to buy a real prop wrench. You don't have to pay $200 for one either. Avery has em and the design readily adapts to my digital torgue wrench. Beware the chrome flavored Hartzel prop wrench offered by ATS. My (returned) example broke way before minimum torque specs were met. I suspect it may have been due an improper or omitted heat treatment. http://www.averytools.com/p-734-hartzell-style-propeller-wrench.aspx Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177374#177374 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject: cowling on bottom/vaporlock problem
Date: Apr 17, 2008
I have vapor lock problem when engine hot, (running mogas), and last summer it happened briefly with 100ll. I am wondering if the vents would allow more cooler air to circulate and help the prob. I otherwise have no overheat problem. ( I always open the oil check cover when I park to let hot air out but if doing a long taxi I cant) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2008
From: Bob <panamared5(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: cowling on bottom/vaporlock problem
At 07:40 AM 4/17/08, you wrote: >I have vapor lock problem when engine hot, (running mogas), and last >summer it happened briefly with 100ll. I am wondering if the vents >would allow more cooler air to circulate and help the prob. I >otherwise have no overheat problem. ( I always open the oil check >cover when I park to let hot air out but if doing a long taxi I cant) Do you have a carburetor or a fuel injection servo? Big difference in how to approach the problem. Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sikaflex Canopy Info
From: "rvtach" <rvtach(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 17, 2008
>From another "Jim"... No problemo on the questions. Happy to have a chance to return the favor for all the help I've gotten over the years. The angle probably wouldn't hurt anything but I don't think it's necessary. The triangle fillet between the plexi and the side bow is plenty strong. When the outer side skirt is riveted to the side bow and glued to the plexi you'll end up with the plexi secured between the Sika Flex fillet and the side skirt. It's not going anywhere. Remember that you don't need the 1/8" glue joint if you have a fillet. Sika USA tech support said that a fillet between 2 pieces at right angles (l_) is as strong as a 1/8" joint. The 1/8" specification is for 2 pieces being bonded face to face (l l). I have not glued on my windscreen yet. I'll do that as late in the process as I can so that I can leave the area behind the panel open for easier access for wiring etc. I plan to do my windscreen the way Jim Elis documented his on the RV Wiki at http://wiki.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/Gluing_Your_Canopy#Jim_Ellis . Gluing the windscreen with a Sika Flex fairing will also make it possible to replace the windscreen in the event of a birdstrike etc. You can just cut the sikaflex with a razor whereas with the fiberglass fairing that Van suggests you'd have a devil of a time taking the damaged windscreen out. The rear skirt seems plenty secure. The only way I can imagine losing the integrity of these glue joints is with a peeling action; the forward edge starts to lift and the wind gets under the skirt and peels it off. The forward/lower ends of the skirt is riveted to the frame so there is no chance for it to start to peel. I made a bunch test pieces of plexi Sika-Flexed to aluminum with minimal/poor prep to simulate a worst case scenario and I can't get the pieces apart with my hands. I used a very thin glue joint on several, put them in the freezer for several hours then popped them into the oven after some cookies came out to simulate max thermal expansion and the glue is strong, strong, strong. I'm sure that if you used a screwdriver you could get them apart but I think you'll tear up the material before the glue joint lets go. I didn't realize how tough this stuff was until after I had used it. I am very happy with the way this has turned out so far. I would definitely do it this way next time. -------- Jim McChesney Tucson, AZ RV-7A Finishing Kit Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177401#177401 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject: vaporlock clairfication
Date: Apr 17, 2008
To clarify, re vaporlock, I have a standard carb. 320 150 hp. I had the carb OH, but first had the problem prior to. The lines are in fire sleve. Charles heathco ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: screaming eagle tailwheels
Date: Apr 17, 2008
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
Guys, My site, the oldest and largest Rocket site on the web, has been down or under construction temporarily due to "upgrades" made by my ISP. I am told that this is a temporary thing, but since most ISP tech support people speak non-english tongues as a primary language, I'm not really sure if they know. Certainly, they can't communicate the situation very well. Regardless, I am still here and still have tailwheels, tires, graphics, and other trinkets for your RV orRocket. Contact me directly if you can't access the website... which seems likely for at least a few weeks until the ISP "upgrades" are completed. Vince Frazier vfrazier(at)usi.edu 812-464-1839w 812-985-7309h Thanks, Vince Frazier Screaming Eagle Graphics and Accessories, LLC 3965 Caborn Road Mount Vernon, IN 47620 812-464-1839 http://vincesrocket.com/products.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Cudney <yenduc(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Prop wrench
Date: Apr 17, 2008
Thanks ------- the problem is these are for 1/2 inch drives and not 3/8. I'll try the stub wrench with a bolt in the closed end method. dave On Apr 16, 2008, at 8:16 PM, Larry Bowen wrote: > One option: > > http://bowenaero.com/mt/2005/04/prop-torque-adapter.html > > -- > Larry Bowen > Larry(at)BowenAero.com > http://BowenAero.com > > > On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 11:01 PM, David Cudney > wrote: > > I am torquing my Hartzel constant speed prop. I need a crow's foot > to work with my 3/8 inch torque wrench with at least a 3 inch > offset. I recall reading that someone, perhaps Dan, made one by > welding a 3/8 adapter onto a stub of a 3/4 inch open end wrench. > Surely there must be a tool available out there somewhere. Anyone > have a source? > > > thanks dave > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2008
From: <kbob(at)cox.net>
Subject: Sikaflex on the canopy
Just wanted to echo my comments on Sika with a tip up canopy. I used garden hose washers as spacers, which are about .125" thick. This is less than Sika says, but it's an experiment (al). Both the windscreen and the rear plexi were attached this way. Not a single hole was drilled. 200 hours and 2 summers in Phoenix without any issues. If the expansion works in Phoenix - it will work anywhere. Kelly Patterson RV-6A N716K moving to Denver in 3 weeks Subject: RV-List: Sikaflex Canopy Info From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com> Carl, The sika flex is strong stuff. I did bolt the sides of the canopy to the square rail. Maybe I was a bit chicken. But I used about 3/8" gap for the adhesive. You need space to allow for the expansion of the plexi in the heat. The gap on the back is much less around 1/4" or so. The windshield was no problem. Just remember that you need to cut the bottom of the plexi after you space the canopy upward to allow for the glue spacing. I had to remake the side skirts because I forgot about that. THe fiberglass that you put around the bottomof the windshield keep things in place. Plus you put the fiberglass "ring" around the top to cover the gap between the rear and front canopy. I think it will be there for a long.time. Fun priject that added about 6 weeks total to the job. But then I have only a few bolt holes on the square tube. Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2008
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-4 Navaid installation question
Thanks to all that replied; I found a couple of photos on the VAF forum site. Also a .pdf of the Trutrak install. Most common seems to be either in the tunnel or on the outer surface of the tunnel with the pushrod going through a hole & attaching to either the base of the stick weldment or to the pushrod that connects the front stick to the back stick. Now, how about a pinout for the dB25 on the back of a Softcom ATC-P panel mount intercom? Thanks, Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: Hanger Interior Design Help
Date: Apr 17, 2008
Sorry about somewhat off topic, but I was looking for ideas/tips/tricks for things to do in my new hangar. I built a new pole barn type hangar with insulation, drywall, etc on my house and was looking for ideas of what others have done that has worked out well. So far I have built in compressed air at multiple locations, speakers wired into the walls, plenty of electricity and lighting, cable, and internet. I also have a sink. I was going to make a little FBO area with a couch and TV for when I'm working on the planes and for when others come to visit. Just looking for any ideas of what others have done to store parts, tools, nice additions, things that worked well and even things that didn't work well. Now is the time for me to incorporate ideas before there is too much stuff in there. Thanks, -Mike Kraus RV-4 Flying RV-10 FWF and Wiring, once I get the house and hangar finished..... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Hanger Interior Design Help
Date: Apr 18, 2008
From: <John.Morrissey(at)csiro.au>
Geez's mate - that sounds better than my house - when can I move in :-) The only hint I'll offer is "put everything on wheels" work benches, the lot! Cheers Do no Archive John Morrissey _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kraus Sent: Friday, 18 April 2008 12:09 PM Subject: RV-List: Hanger Interior Design Help Sorry about somewhat off topic, but I was looking for ideas/tips/tricks for things to do in my new hangar. I built a new pole barn type hangar with insulation, drywall, etc on my house and was looking for ideas of what others have done that has worked out well. So far I have built in compressed air at multiple locations, speakers wired into the walls, plenty of electricity and lighting, cable, and internet. I also have a sink. I was going to make a little FBO area with a couch and TV for when I'm working on the planes and for when others come to visit. Just looking for any ideas of what others have done to store parts, tools, nice additions, things that worked well and even things that didn't work well. Now is the time for me to incorporate ideas before there is too much stuff in there. Thanks, -Mike Kraus RV-4 Flying RV-10 FWF and Wiring, once I get the house and hangar finished..... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2008
From: Bob <panamared5(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: Award Winning Planes
>......plane was among the winners of the group's Outstanding >Homebuilt Aircraft award. A pilot who had just taken off from Lakeland Linder Airport (LAL) was killed Sunday morning when his Lancair Legacy crashed less than one mile west of the runway This was the third EAA Award winning aircraft for workmanship that has crashed right after winning the award that I know of. One would think that an aircraft that wins an award for craftsmanship would not crash due to mechanical difficulty, and that only leaves as the cause of the crash!?? What's the deal? Are these airplanes judged on paint scheme alone, or do the judges really look deep into the aircraft plumbing, wiring, control systems, engine setup etc.? Just my opinion, but an EAA award winning aircraft should not crash on the way home after winning an award for craftsmanship. Winning the award may be the kiss of death? Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Award Winning Planes
Date: Apr 18, 2008
Bob, I have seen an e mail report indicated that the canopy on the Lancair may have come open on take off, there were reports of people seeing maps, etc flying from the cockpit - so could possibly have been a fatal pilot distraction during a critical flight phase and not due to mechanical/electrical problem. Having taken off a bit earlier that Sunday from Sun & Fun, I can tell you low clouds and scud would not have made it easier - don't know if the Lancair gotten that much altitude for it to be a factor. Having had my canopy come open (tilt-up) during take off twice - once did not ensure the primary lock was engaged and second time a linkage came undone- I can tell you that the sudden rush of wind and noise can be very distracting. My procedure is straight ahead until reaching 3000 AGL before I even think about messing with closing it (but, that Sunday, 3000 AGL would have put me in the soup) - good advice I learned from others who had been there before I was. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob" <panamared5(at)brier.net> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:37 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Award Winning Planes > > >>......plane was among the winners of the group's Outstanding Homebuilt >>Aircraft award. > > > A pilot who had just taken off from Lakeland Linder Airport (LAL) was > killed Sunday morning when his Lancair Legacy crashed less than one mile > west of the runway > > This was the third EAA Award winning aircraft for workmanship that has > crashed right after winning the award that I know of. One would think > that an aircraft that wins an award for craftsmanship would not crash due > to mechanical difficulty, and that only leaves as the cause of the > crash!?? > > What's the deal? Are these airplanes judged on paint scheme alone, or do > the judges really look deep into the aircraft plumbing, wiring, control > systems, engine setup etc.? > > Just my opinion, but an EAA award winning aircraft should not crash on the > way home after winning an award for craftsmanship. Winning the award may > be the kiss of death? > > Bob > RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2008
From: "Ollie Washburn" <ollie6a(at)embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: Award Winning Planes
Did you ever consider the fact the pilot might have had a heart attack? Ollie On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Ed Anderson wrote: > > Bob, I have seen an e mail report indicated that the canopy on the Lancair > may have come open on take off, there were reports of people seeing maps, > etc flying from the cockpit - so could possibly have been a fatal pilot > distraction during a critical flight phase and not due to > mechanical/electrical problem. > > Having taken off a bit earlier that Sunday from Sun & Fun, I can tell you > low clouds and scud would not have made it easier - don't know if the > Lancair gotten that much altitude for it to be a factor. > > Having had my canopy come open (tilt-up) during take off twice - once did > not ensure the primary lock was engaged and second time a linkage came > undone- I can tell you that the sudden rush of wind and noise can be very > distracting. My procedure is straight ahead until reaching 3000 AGL before > I even think about messing with closing it (but, that Sunday, 3000 AGL would > have put me in the soup) - good advice I learned from others who had been > there before I was. > > Ed > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob" <panamared5(at)brier.net> > To: > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:37 AM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Award Winning Planes > > > > > > > > ......plane was among the winners of the group's Outstanding Homebuilt > > > Aircraft award. > > > > > > > > > A pilot who had just taken off from Lakeland Linder Airport (LAL) was > > killed Sunday morning when his Lancair Legacy crashed less than one mile > > west of the runway > > > > This was the third EAA Award winning aircraft for workmanship that has > > crashed right after winning the award that I know of. One would think that > > an aircraft that wins an award for craftsmanship would not crash due to > > mechanical difficulty, and that only leaves as the cause of the > > crash!?? > > > > What's the deal? Are these airplanes judged on paint scheme alone, or > > do the judges really look deep into the aircraft plumbing, wiring, control > > systems, engine setup etc.? > > > > Just my opinion, but an EAA award winning aircraft should not crash on > > the way home after winning an award for craftsmanship. Winning the award > > may be the kiss of death? > > > > Bob > > RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2008
From: Bob <panamared5(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: Vaporlock for Fuel Injected Engines
> I don't have enough experience to understand why injected engines > have so much trouble when starting hot. In my IO-360 there are stainless steel fuel lines running from the fuel distribution spider on top of the engine to each cylinder. When the aircraft is on the ground the residual engine heat is absorbed by the fuel in the stainless steel lines and will vaporize. There are varied and numerous solutions to this problem some that may work for you: 1. Install a Purge Valve 2. Use hot starting procedures as outlined in the Lycoming engine manual 3. Reduce injector nozzle size to increase the fuel pressure in the lines 4. Keep the high pressure boost pump on during while engine is running and you are still on the ground 5. Take the top cowl off and let everything cool off 6. Park aircraft into the wind, open oil dipstick door 7. Install cooling louvers on the top cowl that only open when the aircraft is not moving 8. Probably some others solutions as well Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2008
From: "J Riffel" <riffeljl(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Hanger Interior Design Help
Mike, I built a shop inside the hangar so I could build all year long. It's 12'x25' and 8' ceilings. I used 2x12s for ceiling so I could have storage above. Metal racks for parts on 2nd floor with wide steps for carrying parts. The shop walls Do Not connect to the hangar walls (they're free standing). If you connect the shop walls to the hangar walls, then it'll "creek" when the wind blows. It's got a 'window' type heater aircondtioner (essential here in Texas) in the wall at one end. Cheap ceiling fan in middle to save $ on ac. The bottom 1/2 is drywall, the top is all pegboard (easy to hang tools,etc.) The quickstart florencents (for cold weather) are about 2' from the wall so I don't get shaddows on the benches. (don't put them down the middle). Put whiteboard at one end so I could keep notes to myself (I'm old). Airsupply in the middle w/ enough airhose to reach the ends of the shop. Bench next to airsupply has holder for rivet gun/drill/squeezer, etc. Quad outlets about ever 6' (never have enough outlets). Put plastic parts bins for nuts/bolts/etc. on wall. Computer desk so with my parts inventory. Mistakes: 1. Even tho I've got double doors in the shop to get the fuse/wings in/out, I forgot to calculate the width of the gear. So I had start working in main hangar now that she's up on the gear. 2. Had to add a window toward runway - so I could watch planes. 3. Should have put main hangar light switch next to shop door for when I leave in the dark. Hope that helps. "Jerry" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2008
From: Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Award Winning Planes
The crash of the latest award winning aircraft may or may not have been due to mechanical difficulties. It is always premature to yield to the natural human urge to engage in idle, free wheeling speculation so soon after a tragic crash. That said, the photo link clearly shows the condition of the Lancair's tip-up canopy moments before it went down. It is not speculation, however, to note that there are anecdotal first person reports that describe a violent downward pitching moment that will occur if the empennage on the Lancair Legacy is blanked out by an unsecured tip-up canopy. I'll defer to the specialists at the NTSB to determine as best it can why the canopy was ajar while the Lancair was in flight. http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.file?id=536888751&filename=phpxexrtQ.jpg Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla!" RV-8 RE A pilot who had just taken off from Lakeland Linder Airport (LAL) was killed Sunday morning when his Lancair Legacy crashed less than one mile west of the runway This was the third EAA Award winning aircraft for workmanship that has crashed right after winning the award that I know of. One would think that an aircraft that wins an award for craftsmanship would not crash due to mechanical difficulty, and that only leaves as the cause of the crash!?? What's the deal? Are these airplanes judged on paint scheme alone, or do the judges really look deep into the aircraft plumbing, wiring, control systems, engine setup etc.? Just my opinion, but an EAA award winning aircraft should not crash on the way home after winning an award for craftsmanship. Winning the award may be the kiss of death? Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Award Winning Planes
Date: Apr 18, 2008
A heart attack is a possibility. An autopsy may determine that. But the reality is that pilot actions have a higher probability of being the cause. Frankly, mechanical issues have a higher probability than heart attack in my opinion. Ron Lee Did you ever consider the fact the pilot might have had a heart attack? Ollie ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Award Winning Planes
Date: Apr 18, 2008
From: "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Your question merits comprehensive and deep explanation from EAA HQ. Each year I read all the requirements for grading and then watch the judges do their dance. How one becomes a judge, what criteria they use, how they score and how this pattern could become established beckons for a prompt and thorough answer. Thanks for asking what I was wondering. I will listen and read with interest. Pilot motivations, skills, currency and competancy need not be addressed by the EAA judging competition. John C. ________________________________ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Bob Sent: Fri 4/18/2008 7:37 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Award Winning Planes >......plane was among the winners of the group's Outstanding >Homebuilt Aircraft award. A pilot who had just taken off from Lakeland Linder Airport (LAL) was killed Sunday morning when his Lancair Legacy crashed less than one mile west of the runway This was the third EAA Award winning aircraft for workmanship that has crashed right after winning the award that I know of. One would think that an aircraft that wins an award for craftsmanship would not crash due to mechanical difficulty, and that only leaves as the cause of the crash!?? What's the deal? Are these airplanes judged on paint scheme alone, or do the judges really look deep into the aircraft plumbing, wiring, control systems, engine setup etc.? Just my opinion, but an EAA award winning aircraft should not crash on the way home after winning an award for craftsmanship. Winning the award may be the kiss of death? Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Award Winning Planes
Date: Apr 18, 2008
Actually Rick, why the canopy was unlatched may be a minor issue. Other than some sort of problem that causes the latch to disengage, it is not a worry item in my opinion. What really matters is what happened afterwards. Did the pilot attempt to close it in flight and during that attempt do something that caused the crash? Did the open canopy cause the crash (unlikely from some of what I have read)? Was there another mechanical problem that caused it? It will be interesting to see what becomes of this investigation. Ron Lee I'll defer to the specialists at the NTSB to determine as best it can why the canopy was ajar while the Lancair was in flight. Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla!" RV-8 RE ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2008
From: Garey Wittich <gareywittich2000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-8(A) Drawing Revisions
Greetings: I called Vans (Bruce) and they could not help. They do not have my old Drawings (CIRCA 1999) anymore that came with the RV8 Emphennage Kit. I am looking for the LATEST REVISIONS to Drawings 4PP and 5PP (not Dwg 4 and 5). My Dwg 4PP (Elevator) is Rev 1 My Dwg 5PP (Elevator Trim Tab, etc) has no revision Does anybody out there have LATER REVISIONS than mine for Dwg 4PP and 5PP ?? Best to work with the latest drawings. Appreciate your help, Garey Wittich Santa Monica, CA Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2008
From: Scott <acepilot(at)bloomer.net>
Subject: Re: RV-8(A) Drawing Revisions
WHAT?!?! They don't have the drawings for a -8? I got a replacement drawing for the RV-4 wing kit I bought at Oshkosh last year and the kit was nearly 20 years old! They charged me $3 for the drawing. I emailed the office staff from the website and she told me mine was available, so I can hardly imagine them NOT having drawings for the 8s as they are MUCH newer than the 4s. Scott World's OLDEST RV-4 kits ;) Garey Wittich wrote: > >Greetings: > >I called Vans (Bruce) and they could not help. They >do not have my old Drawings (CIRCA 1999) anymore that >came with the RV8 Emphennage Kit. I am looking for >the LATEST REVISIONS to Drawings 4PP and 5PP (not Dwg >4 and 5). > >My Dwg 4PP (Elevator) is Rev 1 >My Dwg 5PP (Elevator Trim Tab, etc) has no revision > >Does anybody out there have LATER REVISIONS than mine >for Dwg 4PP and 5PP ?? > >Best to work with the latest drawings. > >Appreciate your help, Garey Wittich Santa Monica, >CA > > >Be a better friend, newshound, and >know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > -- Scott http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ Flying Corben Junior Ace - Building RV-4 Gotta Fly or Gonna Die ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2008
From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)newwavecomm.net>
Subject: Sun-n-Fun 08' been there done that :-)
My internet service at home is down for a couple more week upgrades, so I'm setting in the parking lot at a car wash doing the wireless thing. I flew to Sun-n-Fun and have finally got some of the pictures and story on my web site. I still need to add more, but it should be some good reading. Click the pictures to see them bigger. The side trip to Cedar Key was the highlight of the whole trip! If you go down there and do not check out Cedar Key your missing a lot. -- ---- Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my flying RV7A web page: http://home.newwavecomm.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie & Margo" <ekells(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Aircraft Beacon - LED
Date: Apr 18, 2008
I am planning to install a LED red beacon on the tail of my RV-9A, so that I will be Night VFR legal. The archives have nothing on this subject. Perhaps someone has related experience.. Kuntzlem Electronics sells a small LED beacon that is 1.7 inches in diameter, 3.5 inches tall and weighs 8.4 oz. It seems that it will be small enough to look decent on the skinny RV tail. They claim that it meets FAA requirements. They sell a mounting kit for the fuselage which probably could be made to work on the tailcone., with a fair amount of work to flair it nicely. Has anybody have experience with this or a similar product.? It is described at www.kestrobes.com. Thanks for any help. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 18, 2008
Subject: Re: Vaporlock for Fuel Injected Engines
Park aircraft into the wind, open oil dipstick door >>> OK- my meager understanding of physics just screams at me to challenge this one, even though it's been pounded into our collective conscience ever since the invention of the cowling. Twenty+ Kt wind? Maybe. But I am unconvinced that the airflow from above/below a just-shut-down engine would have any other natural tendancy but to RISE through the engine via normal convective action. Assuming no "wind", air would be greatly encouraged to enter the outlet and exit the inlets. Buttdraggers would have a rare advantage here. (save the venom, I gotcha on this one!) I therefore theorize that positioning most conventionally-cooled flying machines (most RVs, for example) with their fannies pointed INTO the wind would benefit from some additonal airflow. Conveniently owning one of these devices, I happened to be pondering this situation as I dismounted her one day after some particularly hot activity. First I pointed her into a prevailing wind of approximately 10Kt velocity and unscientifically measured airflow by holding my hand just behind the cowl outlet. Not much going on here. I then danced a one-eighty with her and again unscientifically held my temp probe (upper 5-digit extremity) in proximity to her nostrils. Whole lotta hot stuff coming out here. Pretty much convinced me. I further postulate that opening mentioned oil door would short-circuit cooling air through the engine itself, actually reducing airflow to the engine/spider etc., but most likely helping cool fuel lines & pumps between firewall and baffling. Ye flying greybeards and physics profs, please explain the errors of my thinking & experimentation... >From The PossumWorks in TN Mark Phillips, RV-6A "Mojo" _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/) **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2008
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Aircraft Beacon - LED
Ernie & Margo wrote: > I am planning to install a LED red beacon on the tail of my RV-9A, so > that I will be Night VFR legal. > The archives have nothing on this subject. Perhaps someone has > related experience.. > > Kuntzlem Electronics sells a small LED beacon that is 1.7 inches in > diameter, 3.5 inches tall and weighs 8.4 oz. It seems that it will be > small enough to look decent on the skinny RV tail. They claim that it > meets FAA requirements. They sell a mounting kit for the fuselage > which probably could be made to work on the tailcone., with a fair > amount of work to flair it nicely. > > Has anybody have experience with this or a similar product.? It is > described at www.kestrobes.com <http://www.kestrobes.com>. > > Thanks for any help. Biggest downside is that it's round (draggy). Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2008
From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: RV Safety Record
I spent hours and hours searching the NTSB files. Mostly to see what makes a Lycs stop running verses alternative engines stop running. That is a diff topic, but to the point, are home built planes (experimental) safe? AOPA does put out an analysis of the years accidents. THE TRUTH! Forget opinion and feelings as a group all experimentals aircraft have a slightly worse record (normalized for fleet size) than the general fleet. Not bad just not quite as good as the general fleet. Why? Well you really need to spend hours looking at every experimental accident and read them. Like my quest for engine failure info, I learned you have to read them. It's almost impossible to boil it down to just a number with out some understanding. I agree many accidents are preventable. In fact if you maintain your plane, don't run out of gas, stay current and don't fly into bad weather, your chance of accident (at least the ones that make up many in the statistics) goes down. I don't plan on doing any of the things that cause most accidents. However the HOT sporty homebuilt does have a tendency or lend it self to higher risk flying, acro, high speed buzz jobs and formation flying. Yes ACRO and formation flying his less tolerance to mistakes and errors. They can be done safely, but these Ops have higher risk. If you don't think about the risk, try to mitigate the risk for these kinds of operations you should not do them or you will be a statistics.This applies to every day flying as well. There is nothing inherently dangerous about homebuilts but some homebuilts, like Lancair IV's with higher wing loading and stall speeds of a WWII fighter take more disciplined, flying by the numbers. Also an engine failure is more likely going to hurt due to the higher stall speed and the kind of material the airframe is made from. RV's are fairly safe due to the low stall speed and metal structure that absorbs energy. However the RV is not an over built "Bush" airframe with a steel truss tube frame either. Having a buble canopy, flips can cause egress issues. RV takes displine and its not a low speed trainer with IRON WORKS landing gear for ham handed flying. If flown properly its as safe (safer in my opinion) than any GA plane. Of course the engine and airframe need to be maintained properly. Bottom line of course home built planes are safe, but the real factor is inbetween our ears. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2008
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: Vaporlock for Fuel Injected Engines
After flying a 200hp Mooney(IO360-A1A) with a Skytec starter for 10 years(~600 hours), whatever problems existed with the old Prestolite starters are virtually eliminated. The Skytec cranks engine plenty fast enough. The Mooney uses retard breaker mag with shower of sparks vibrator. I just advance the throttle an 1/8th inch beyond where it was at shutdown(1000rpm), and leave the mixture at idle cutoff. Crank, and if it hasn't started firing after 6 blades, slowly advance the mixture until it does fire. Has worked very consistently for me, whether a 5 min shutdown or 2 hour shut down, or anything in-between. Very rare to need to make second attempt or go to flooded start routine. Given that most of my flying is in Aridzona, ALL starts other than the first one of the day are hot starts. =-O Bob wrote: > > >> I don't have enough experience to understand why injected engines >> have so much trouble when starting hot. > > In my IO-360 there are stainless steel fuel lines running from the > fuel distribution spider on top of the engine to each cylinder. When > the aircraft is on the ground the residual engine heat is absorbed by > the fuel in the stainless steel lines and will vaporize. > > There are varied and numerous solutions to this problem some that may > work for you: > 1. Install a Purge Valve > 2. Use hot starting procedures as outlined in the Lycoming engine manual > 3. Reduce injector nozzle size to increase the fuel pressure in the > lines > 4. Keep the high pressure boost pump on during while engine is > running and you are still on the ground > 5. Take the top cowl off and let everything cool off > 6. Park aircraft into the wind, open oil dipstick door > 7. Install cooling louvers on the top cowl that only open when the > aircraft is not moving > 8. Probably some others solutions as well > > Bob > RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2008
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RV Safety record
Just curious if anyone received this pdf file I posted a while back to the list from Ron Wanttaja? All the talk of RV safety and not one comment on his research comparing RV's to other homebuilt safety. Maybe pdf files do not come through or maybe no one can open it. Let me know. Jerry Springer +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> Can can I post this on the RV-List? >> There is a discussion going on there about how to make the RV flying >> community safer and how to compare RV accidents to the rest of the >> homebuilt accident rates. Someone ask how to break the RVs apart from >> the rest of the homebuilt accident statistics. I would like to point people >> to your article or maybe you could help us out some way with RV accident >> statistics. > > Jerry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I give talks to the local EAA chapters that go further than the articles. Attached is a page from my presentation where I discuss RV accident causes and compare them to the overall statistics. The data is based on accidents from 1998 through 2004, inclusive. "General Pilot Error" is basically mistakes in the stick-and-rudder skills; "SALA" stands for "Stupidity at Low Altitude," buzzing, flying up box canyons, etc. In my presentations, I use a red star to call attention to interesting results, such as the RV's higher rate in what I call 'cross-country' accidents. The lower rate of pilot error accidents may well be due to the higher general experience level of RV pilots, as shown by the median pilot hours. During the subject period the annual fleet accident rate for all homebuilts was about 0.94% (e.g., almost one out of every 100 homebuilts crashes in a given year) and the RV fleet accident rate was almost identical (0.90%). In contrast, the Glasair rate was 1.11%, The overall rate for all N-numbered aircraft was 0.63%, so homebuilts have a rate about 50% higher than the overall fleet. I'm currently adding 2005 and 2006 data to my database, and will be updating the graphs accordingly. Don't expect them to change too much, but you never know.... Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2008
From: "Larry Sallee" <larrysallee(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Vaporlock for Fuel Injected Engines
Hot start solution: Eggenfellner Subaru On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Bob wrote: > > > I don't have enough experience to understand why injected engines have > > so much trouble when starting hot. > > > > In my IO-360 there are stainless steel fuel lines running from the fuel > distribution spider on top of the engine to each cylinder. When the > aircraft is on the ground the residual engine heat is absorbed by the fuel > in the stainless steel lines and will vaporize. > > There are varied and numerous solutions to this problem some that may work > for you: > 1. Install a Purge Valve > 2. Use hot starting procedures as outlined in the Lycoming engine manual > 3. Reduce injector nozzle size to increase the fuel pressure in the lines > 4. Keep the high pressure boost pump on during while engine is running > and you are still on the ground > 5. Take the top cowl off and let everything cool off > 6. Park aircraft into the wind, open oil dipstick door > 7. Install cooling louvers on the top cowl that only open when the > aircraft is not moving > 8. Probably some others solutions as well > > Bob > RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2008
From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV Safety record
I got it both times ..... and it's really interesting . RVs have more entries in one half of the categories (6 out of 12) and RVs have none in the maintenance categories!!!! However, the accident rate for stupid pilot tricks is far too high, no matter what we fly. We really need to do better. Linn Jerry Springer wrote: > Just curious if anyone received this pdf file I posted a while back to > the list from Ron Wanttaja? > All the talk of RV safety and not one comment on his research > comparing RV's to other homebuilt > safety. Maybe pdf files do not come through or maybe no one can open it. > Let me know. > Jerry Springer > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > >>> Can can I post this on the RV-List? >>> There is a discussion going on there about how to make the RV flying >>> community safer and how to compare RV accidents to the rest of the >>> homebuilt accident rates. Someone ask how to break the RVs apart >>> from the rest of the homebuilt accident statistics. I would like to >>> point people >>> to your article or maybe you could help us out some way with RV >>> accident >>> statistics. >> >> > > Jerry > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > I give talks to the local EAA chapters that go further than the articles. > Attached is a page from my presentation where I discuss RV accident > causes and > compare them to the overall statistics. The data is based on > accidents from > 1998 through 2004, inclusive. > > "General Pilot Error" is basically mistakes in the stick-and-rudder > skills; > "SALA" stands for "Stupidity at Low Altitude," buzzing, flying up box > canyons, > etc. In my presentations, I use a red star to call attention to > interesting > results, such as the RV's higher rate in what I call 'cross-country' > accidents. > > The lower rate of pilot error accidents may well be due to the higher > general > experience level of RV pilots, as shown by the median pilot hours. > > During the subject period the annual fleet accident rate for all > homebuilts was > about 0.94% (e.g., almost one out of every 100 homebuilts crashes in a > given > year) and the RV fleet accident rate was almost identical (0.90%). In > contrast, > the Glasair rate was 1.11%, The overall rate for all N-numbered > aircraft was > 0.63%, so homebuilts have a rate about 50% higher than the overall fleet. > > I'm currently adding 2005 and 2006 data to my database, and will be > updating the > graphs accordingly. Don't expect them to change too much, but you never > know.... > > Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2008
From: Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Vaporlock for Fuel Injected Engines
Hi Mark, You can do a slightly more "scientific" test by simply watching the results on your CHT gauges at shutdown and then again, 10 minutes later with the nose into the wind and in the lee of the wind. Just an idea and worth what you paid for it. Charlie Kuss --- On Fri, 4/18/08, Fiveonepw(at)aol.com wrote: > From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com <Fiveonepw(at)aol.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Vaporlock for Fuel Injected Engines > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Friday, April 18, 2008, 10:53 PM > Park aircraft into the wind, open oil dipstick door > > >>> > > OK- my meager understanding of physics just screams at me > to challenge this > one, even though it's been pounded into our collective > conscience ever since > the invention of the cowling. Twenty+ Kt wind? Maybe. But > I am unconvinced that > the airflow from above/below a just-shut-down engine would > have any other > natural tendancy but to RISE through the engine via normal > convective action. > Assuming no "wind", air would be greatly > encouraged to enter the outlet and exit > the inlets. Buttdraggers would have a rare advantage here. > (save the venom, > I gotcha on this one!) > > I therefore theorize that positioning most > conventionally-cooled flying > machines (most RVs, for example) with their fannies pointed > INTO the wind would > benefit from some additonal airflow. Conveniently owning > one of these devices, I > happened to be pondering this situation as I dismounted her > one day after > some particularly hot activity. First I pointed her into a > prevailing wind of > approximately 10Kt velocity and unscientifically measured > airflow by holding my > hand just behind the cowl outlet. Not much going on here. > I then danced a > one-eighty with her and again unscientifically held my temp > probe (upper 5-digit > extremity) in proximity to her nostrils. Whole lotta hot > stuff coming out > here. Pretty much convinced me. > > I further postulate that opening mentioned oil door would > short-circuit > cooling air through the engine itself, actually reducing > airflow to the > engine/spider etc., but most likely helping cool fuel lines > & pumps between firewall and > baffling. > > Ye flying greybeards and physics profs, please explain the > errors of my > thinking & experimentation... > > >From The PossumWorks in TN > Mark Phillips, RV-6A "Mojo" > _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_ > (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/) > > > > **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site > for U.S. used car > listings at AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2008
Subject: Aircraft Beacon - LED
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Ernie, Are you going to really fly it night time? If so, having the beacon on the top of the tail will reflect into the canopy. Not a good thing. If you are really going to fly night, you should go the route of strobes and running lights on the tips of your wings and tail. That way you should have no reflections in the office. If you are only going to do the single light, I think in the belly would be a better place. Either place will have blind spot. I would recommend LED type running lights. They require very low power to operate. Just my opinion. Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2008
From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)newwavecomm.net>
Subject: Re: Sun-n-Fun 08' been there done that :-)
Woops, forgot to give the direct link, scroll down near the bottom: http://home.newwavecomm.net/bobbyhester/2008FlyingAdventures.htm ---- Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my flying RV7A web page: http://home.newwavecomm.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm Bobby Hester wrote: > > My internet service at home is down for a couple more week upgrades, > so I'm setting in the parking lot at a car wash doing the wireless thing. > > I flew to Sun-n-Fun and have finally got some of the pictures and > story on my web site. I still need to add more, but it should be some > good reading. Click the pictures to see them bigger. The side trip to > Cedar Key was the highlight of the whole trip! If you go down there > and do not check out Cedar Key your missing a lot. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV Safety record
Date: Apr 19, 2008
Got it Jerry, it prompted a couple of emails with Ron. The cause data is interesting and useful but we also need our accident rate per 100,000 hours flown to compare with other groups. This rate is hard to come with as it requires an estimate of how much the average RV flys per year. Ron is doing good work on this and has more articles coiming. Dick Sipp RV10 N110DV ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Springer" <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net> Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:39 AM Subject: RV-List: RV Safety record > Just curious if anyone received this pdf file I posted a while back to > the list from Ron Wanttaja? > All the talk of RV safety and not one comment on his research comparing > RV's to other homebuilt > safety. Maybe pdf files do not come through or maybe no one can open it. > Let me know. > Jerry Springer > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > >>> Can can I post this on the RV-List? >>> There is a discussion going on there about how to make the RV flying >>> community safer and how to compare RV accidents to the rest of the >>> homebuilt accident rates. Someone ask how to break the RVs apart from >>> the rest of the homebuilt accident statistics. I would like to point >>> people >>> to your article or maybe you could help us out some way with RV accident >>> statistics. >> > > Jerry > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I give talks to the local EAA chapters that go further than the articles. > Attached is a page from my presentation where I discuss RV accident causes > and > compare them to the overall statistics. The data is based on accidents > from > 1998 through 2004, inclusive. > > "General Pilot Error" is basically mistakes in the stick-and-rudder > skills; > "SALA" stands for "Stupidity at Low Altitude," buzzing, flying up box > canyons, > etc. In my presentations, I use a red star to call attention to > interesting > results, such as the RV's higher rate in what I call 'cross-country' > accidents. > > The lower rate of pilot error accidents may well be due to the higher > general > experience level of RV pilots, as shown by the median pilot hours. > > During the subject period the annual fleet accident rate for all > homebuilts was > about 0.94% (e.g., almost one out of every 100 homebuilts crashes in a > given > year) and the RV fleet accident rate was almost identical (0.90%). In > contrast, > the Glasair rate was 1.11%, The overall rate for all N-numbered aircraft > was > 0.63%, so homebuilts have a rate about 50% higher than the overall fleet. > > I'm currently adding 2005 and 2006 data to my database, and will be > updating the > graphs accordingly. Don't expect them to change too much, but you never > know.... > > Ron > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Neal George" <n8zg(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Canopy
Date: Apr 20, 2008
Gentlemen - Anybody have the name & number for the folks who make the canopies for Van's? Neal RV-7 N8ZG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Vaporlock for Fuel Injected Engines
Date: Apr 20, 2008
Hey Charles, you seem to be on to something. I will try your wind theory next time. It makes sense. In no wind condition, I still think opening the oil door helps. However, yesterday wind blew it closed while I was at a group gathering, and I forgot about it, took off and it poped up. had to go around slow reland and lock it. I also experienced minor vapor lock after sitting hot for about 10 min, and was running 100ll. Cjharlie heathco ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Canopy
Date: Apr 20, 2008
Airplane Plastics 9785 Julie Ct Tipp City, OH 45371 PH 937-669-2677 FAX 937-669-2777 Bill S 7a finishing ,...... _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neal George Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 7:25 AM Subject: RV-List: Canopy Gentlemen - Anybody have the name & number for the folks who make the canopies for Van's? Neal RV-7 N8ZG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PeterHunt1(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 20, 2008
Subject: RV Safety Record
Ron writes: During the subject period the annual fleet accident rate for all > homebuilts was > about 0.94% (e.g., almost one out of every 100 homebuilts crashes in a > given > year) and the RV fleet accident rate was almost identical (0.90%). WOW! That is almost 1 in 100 RV crashes per year or 10 in 1000 RV crashes per year or, said another way, 50 of the 5000 RV currently flying will crash 2008. If these are reasonably accurate numbers I, for one, am interested in understanding what is going on here and what can be done to reduce our risk of flying RVs. Ron and others, I look forward to reading more definition of these statistics. Pete in Clearwater RV-6, "Best Low-wing - Homebuilt" award, Sun 'n Fun 2008 **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Aircraft Beacon - LED
Date: Apr 20, 2008
I am not sure about the particular one you are referring to, but keep in mind that there are different requirements for anticollision lights depending on the year the plane was built. After 1977 you need 400 effective candella and it needs to be 75 degrees vertical above and below the horizontal plane. From 71-77 it is 400 and 30 degrees and from 57-71 it was 100 candella and 30 degrees. Reference FARs 91.205, 23.1397, and 23.1401. Don't take for granted that because it is a new light that it meets the new requirements. There are a lot of units being made that meet the older requirements, but not the newer ones because a lot of lights are getting replaced or added on older planes. I added flashing red lights on my 1950 Pacer not long ago and used ones that met the older regulations. Call the manufacturer and see if they meet current requirements and see if you meet the maximum blockage requirements (no more than .5 steradian) with just one light (likely you won't on the tailcone, but might on top of the rudder). There is an FAA bulletin on how to measure the blockage using 3 view drawings and the special graph paper in the bulletin, but I can't seem to find the number right now. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ernie & Margo Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:50 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Aircraft Beacon - LED I am planning to install a LED red beacon on the tail of my RV-9A, so that I will be Night VFR legal. The archives have nothing on this subject. Perhaps someone has related experience.. Kuntzlem Electronics sells a small LED beacon that is 1.7 inches in diameter, 3.5 inches tall and weighs 8.4 oz. It seems that it will be small enough to look decent on the skinny RV tail. They claim that it meets FAA requirements. They sell a mounting kit for the fuselage which probably could be made to work on the tailcone., with a fair amount of work to flair it nicely. Has anybody have experience with this or a similar product.? It is described at www.kestrobes.com. Thanks for any help. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Neal George" <n8zg(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Canopy
Date: Apr 20, 2008
Thanks Bill ! _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Schlatterer Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 8:04 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Canopy Airplane Plastics 9785 Julie Ct Tipp City, OH 45371 PH 937-669-2677 FAX 937-669-2777 Bill S 7a finishing ,...... _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neal George Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 7:25 AM Subject: RV-List: Canopy Gentlemen - Anybody have the name & number for the folks who make the canopies for Van's? Neal RV-7 N8ZG href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2008
From: "J Riffel" <riffeljl(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Cutter CHEAP
I fab'd one from a pipe cutter, some homeDepot angle-iron, 4 bolts/washers/nuts and some plywood. It's Really Ugly, but it works and it's cheap. Been using it for about 8 years. Cut the angle iron so you make a square that 'holds' a oil filter and bolt it together. Cut the pipe cutter in half and bolt the adjustable part to one side of the angle-iron so you can adjust it to cut into the edge of the filter. I put "thick" plywood inside the angle-iron square with a hole for the filter pipe fitting to fit thru (so I could hold everything flat on the bench when I cut the filter) To operate, I just put a socket wrench on the filter and turn it while I adjust the pipe cutter enough to cut thru the 'can' around the filter. Good Luck "Jerry" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "WILLIAM AGSTER" <BAGSTERJR(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Cutter CHEAP
Date: Apr 21, 2008
Thanks, but a photo would be worth a thousand words...... Bill 7A ----- Original Message ----- From: J Riffel<mailto:riffeljl(at)gmail.com> To: rv-list Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 8:41 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: Oil Cutter CHEAP I fab'd one from a pipe cutter, some homeDepot angle-iron, 4 bolts/washers/nuts and some plywood. It's Really Ugly, but it works and it's cheap. Been using it for about 8 years. Cut the angle iron so you make a square that 'holds' a oil filter and bolt it together. Cut the pipe cutter in half and bolt the adjustable part to one side of the angle-iron so you can adjust it to cut into the edge of the filter. I put "thick" plywood inside the angle-iron square with a hole for the filter pipe fitting to fit thru (so I could hold everything flat on the bench when I cut the filter) To operate, I just put a socket wrench on the filter and turn it while I adjust the pipe cutter enough to cut thru the 'can' around the filter. Good Luck "Jerry" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ator?RV-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Lenhardt" <av8or(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Oil Cutter CHEAP
Date: Apr 21, 2008
Ditto..... ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM AGSTER To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:12 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Oil Cutter CHEAP Thanks, but a photo would be worth a thousand words...... Bill 7A ----- Original Message ----- From: J Riffel To: rv-list Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 8:41 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: Oil Cutter CHEAP I fab'd one from a pipe cutter, some homeDepot angle-iron, 4 bolts/washers/nuts and some plywood. It's Really Ugly, but it works and it's cheap. Been using it for about 8 years. Cut the angle iron so you make a square that 'holds' a oil filter and bolt it together. Cut the pipe cutter in half and bolt the adjustable part to one side of the angle-iron so you can adjust it to cut into the edge of the filter. I put "thick" plywood inside the angle-iron square with a hole for the filter pipe fitting to fit thru (so I could hold everything flat on the bench when I cut the filter) To operate, I just put a socket wrench on the filter and turn it while I adjust the pipe cutter enough to cut thru the 'can' around the filter. Good Luck "Jerry" href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 4/20/2008 3:01 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 21, 2008
Subject: FOR SALE, RV6A
From: cecilth(at)juno.com
FOR SALE, RV6A 99% complete Except for engine. I had a heart attack, lost medical. I completed the plane including a Chev V6 Vortec engine. I will keep the engine for insurance reasons. 99% complete Except for engine. I had a heart attack, lost medical. I completed the plane including a Chev V6 Vortec engine. I will keep the engine for insurance reasons. See attachmen for details. Cecil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Lenhardt" <av8or(at)cox.net>
Subject: FOR SALE, RV6A
Date: Apr 21, 2008
Here's a project for you. ----- Original Message ----- From: cecilth(at)juno.com To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 1:15 PM Subject: RV-List: FOR SALE, RV6A FOR SALE, RV6A 99% complete Except for engine. I had a heart attack, lost medical. I completed the plane including a Chev V6 Vortec engine. I will keep the engine for insurance reasons. 99% complete Except for engine. I had a heart attack, lost medical. I completed the plane including a Chev V6 Vortec engine. I will keep the engine for insurance reasons. See attachmen for details. Cecil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Fasching" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
Subject: Oil Filter Cutters
Date: Apr 21, 2008
I see oil filter cutters advertised for as low as $45. I have one, it works just fine. FWIW ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Oil Filter Cutters
Date: Apr 21, 2008
From: John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com>
What type? Thanks _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Fasching Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:23 PM Subject: RV-List: Oil Filter Cutters I see oil filter cutters advertised for as low as $45. I have one, it works just fine. FWIW ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 22, 2008
Subject: Re: Vaporlock for Fuel Injected Engines
In a message dated 04/19/2008 6:52:30 AM Central Daylight Time, chaskuss(at)yahoo.com writes: You can do a slightly more "scientific" test by simply watching the results on your CHT gauges at shutdown and then again, 10 minutes later with the nose into the wind and in the lee of the wind. >>> Hi Charlie! Excellent suggestion, and fer sure a good way to test & quantify. As I currently have about 3-4 porcupines in the air, perhaps other RV-ers could take up the challenge and get some good, hard data and share their resuls here... Appreciate the interest, Mark Phillips

April 03, 2008 - April 22, 2008

RV-Archive.digest.vol-tk