RV-Archive.digest.vol-tm
May 07, 2008 - May 26, 2008
> to apply a heavy vacuum to the outside of the tank at the
> effected area to
> draw any remaining fuel out and and suck the sealant in to
> the void.
> additional rivets added along seam lines while still wet
> helps to.
>
>
>
> sealant application tricks.
>
>
>
> clean /clean /clean. pro-seal dose not like oil and most
> primers but loves a
> good cleaned alodined surface.
>
>
>
> mechanical grip/ light scuff on a flaying surface helps
> with adhesion
>
>
>
> tape applied along side the joints to assist with clean up
>
>
>
> gloves, this stuff does not like to come off and mek is bad
> for you
>
>
>
> proper fit of parts, don't expect pro-seal to fill
> gaps.
>
>
>
> don't use to much. or you will get a wavy structure.
>
>
>
> use type a for seams it helps with waves and type b for
> fillets and fastener
> sealing
>
>
>
> don't exceed the pot life
>
>
>
> mix it right and use the correct proportions a good scale
> really helps.
>
>
>
> use the longest pot life you can, i have found that 1/2
> stuff to be almost
> useless for most jobs.
>
>
>
> the proper place for sealant is on the inside of the tank
> not globed on the
> outside beside it looks ugly.
>
>
>
> tips of opening seams
>
>
>
> sharpend putty knives are great but be sure to round the
> corners to help
> prevent gouges. take your time here. gentle is better.
>
>
>
> removal of sealant
>
>
>
> scotch bright disks work great. wear a mask. and realodine
> after done.
>
>
>
> tank testing, quick easy and cheap
>
>
>
> connect air/nitrogen supply to vent
>
> connect clear hose to drain about ten feet worth
>
> loop hose to floor and fill with water until you have a
> loop with three feet
> high on both sides
>
> add nitrogen until the water is four feet higher on one
> side then the other.
> you now have 2 psi in the tank. care should be taken here,
> fill slowly.
>
> spray the seams with soapy water and look for bubbles. use
> hand soap or
> aircraft soap, some soaps are bad for alum.
>
>
>
> how to find that damn mystery leak i have tried everything
> else.
>
> sometimes really small leaks are the worse to find, but one
> way to track
> them down is to apply dye-pen developer to the outside of
> the tank it will
> show up any tiny leaks. over a couple of days.
>
>
>
> and this ends fuel tank 101 hope it helps.
>
>
>
>
>
> rick miller
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List>
> a>http://forums.matronics.com
> <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Proseal remover? |
I am resending this with the subject line changed to aid in easier searching of
the archieves.
Charlie Kuss
--- On Wed, 5/7/08, Charles Kuss wrote:
> From: Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Proseal remover?
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, May 7, 2008, 5:35 PM
> Jan,
> The difference between "clear" and
> "gold" Alodine (or Iridite) is only cosmetic.
> They add a dye to the "gold" to aid you in
> knowing when the chromic conversion process has completed.
> I just did a quick search regarding the application of
> Pro-Seal or Chem Seal (as supplied by Vans)
> Here is what I found.
>
> http://www.aviationproductsinc.com/Publications/TDS_PDF/TDS_CS3204.pdf
>
> http://corporateportal.ppg.com/NR/rdonlyres/22FFA52B-AC2C-4D75-AE20-08E03ACF8EB8/0/asaguide.pdf
>
> Both simply stress that the surface be clean.
>
> I only know of several sets of fuel tanks which were built
> locally, which were Alodined prior to sealing. No one has
> had any sealing problems so far.
>
> Charlie Kuss
>
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 5/7/08, jan
> wrote:
>
> > From: jan <jan(at)claver.demon.co.uk>
> > Subject: RE: RV-List: Proseal remover?
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Date: Wednesday, May 7, 2008, 1:22 PM
> > Hi Richard, (nothing wrong with perfection .. :-)
> ...)
> > & Charles
> >
> >
> >
> > Is the reason for using clear and gold Alodine purely
> > esthetic or is there a
> > technical (chemical) reason why they are use on
> different
> > parts of the
> > aircraft (at Boeing) ? I have used the
> "gold"
> > Alodine quite a lot - prior to
> > painting ... on several parts of the RV I am building.
> > Especially the spar.
> >
> >
> >
> > >From a adhesion point - paint does stick very well
> to a
> > Alodined surface -
> > Does the maker of ProSeal have any official policy on
> using
> > Alodine prior to
> > application of its product?
> >
> >
> >
> > Do you know "how many / how widely" the
> practice
> > of alodining the inside of
> > the tanks are ??
> >
> >
> >
> > Jan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > RICHARD MILLER
> > Sent: 07 May 2008 00:22
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Proseal remover?
> >
> >
> >
> > hi guys
> >
> >
> >
> > jan i was taught to be a litle anal retentive and
> by
> > the way had to
> > follow boeing spec's so everything gets alodined.
> clear
> > for skins and gold
> > for every thing else. besides i like the color. and
> water
> > from bad fuel is
> > bad for alum tanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > larry if they don't leak now why play with it. but
> when
> > they start to leak
> > change them out when you pull the tank. it should only
> take
> > about an hour
> > per tank.
> >
> >
> >
> > about fuel filters, airflow performance has a filter
> prior
> > to the twin pump
> > setup it will stop any thing big enough to damage the
> > pumps, but, big but,
> > do you want to risk your bird on one fuel filter.
> install
> > one filter per
> > tank prior to the selector valve. and sleep better at
> > night. remember the
> > airflow system much more pressure then a carb. i have
> never
> > like the one
> > filter idea in certified aircraft. maybe i should
> apply for
> > an stc for two.
> > airflow fuel filters are an annual replacement item,
> > don't cheat
> >
> > Larry Bowen wrote:
> >
> > FYI, I used domed nut plates on my RV-8 tanks....and
> had to
> > cut a couple of
> > them off because they interfered with the fuel
> pick-up.
> > Sometimes
> > second-guessing uncle Van doesn't pay off....
> >
> > --
> > Larry Bowen
> > Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> > http://BowenAero.com
> >
> > On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 2:14 PM, jan
> > > > wrote:
> >
> > Hi Richard,
> >
> >
> >
> > I will be doing my hand build tanks later on this
> summer. I
> > have read your
> > article with great interest. First ... I have bought
> the
> > domed nut plates...
> > they are used on commercial planes from what I
> understand
> > ... and should
> > make a perfect seal with a "O" ring .. Then
> cover
> > the nut plate after
> > fitting with pro-seal as a extra safeguard against
> leaks.
> >
> >
> >
> > Do you recommend alodining the tank skin and the ribs
> ??
> > That is a new one
> > to me ... I thought cleaning with Aluprep ...rinse
> with
> > water ... and scuff
> > the seams is fine ??
> >
> >
> >
> > Appreciate you comments on this
> >
> >
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> >
> >
> > Jan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >
> > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > ] On
> > Behalf Of RICHARD MILLER
> > Sent: 06 May 2008 14:54
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Proseal remover?
> >
> >
> >
> > Since we seem to have so many complaints about fuel
> leaks,
> > lets cover fuel
> > tank 101.
> >
> >
> >
> > static loads on a fuel tank are less then .5 psi. duct
> tape
> > can hold .5 psi.
> > dynamic loads are variable due to high g loading and
> can
> > reach 4
> >
> > psi, with tank destruction emanate. the problem with
> > checking tanks is the
> > static pressure loading is applied to all surfaces and
> they
> > need to be
> > stressed to handle that load. most are not ie, the
> caps.
> >
> >
> >
> > next problem is the inherent movement of the structure
> as
> > it flexes. tearing
> > the sealant bonds.
> >
> >
> >
> > so lets assume that you built it close to right and
> now
> > want to test it.
> > water, fuel, any material with the exception of the
> > original sealant will
> > contaminate the joint during testing. so how do we
> remove
> > the contaminates?
> > we don't contaminate in the first place. the
> sealants
> > we are using are
> > sensitive to contaminates so air or better nitrogen is
> the
> > testing medium of
> > choice.
> >
> >
> >
> > after inspecting aircraft with properly applied
> pro-seal
> > that had over
> > twenty years in service, the stuff sticks. sloshing
> does
> > not work and will
> > result in a crash, the unfortunate part of this is
> that the
> > pilot is always
> > the first person at the crash site.. fire and medic
> support
> > might take a
> > little longer arriving. do not slosh tanks
> >
> >
> >
> > types of leaks.
> >
> >
> >
> > seam leaks, very rare, normally caused by poor
> > construction, or extreme g
> > loading.
> >
> >
> >
> > fastener leaks, more common also caused by high g
> loading
> > and flexing of the
> > structure, compounded but poor sealing practices. all
> tank
> > fasteners are to
> > be installed wet. and then sealed on the inside.
> >
> >
> >
> > access plate/fitting leaks, most common. cause
> improperly
> > applied sealant,
> > wrong nut plates , they should be all domed and
> sealed. too
> > long of screw
> > that goes through the nut plate dome. bad gaskets,
> failed
> > orings. rotation
> > of a fitting after sealant has dried. always use two
> > wrenches when removing
> > lines.
> >
> >
> >
> > the primary problem with tank repair is the lack of
> > structural integrity of
> > this tank. riveted tanks and the repair tricks where
> > designed around the
> > larger transport type aircraft. pro-seal sticks well
> and
> > can be a problem to
> > break the seams apart without disturbing/destroying
> the
> > structure.
> >
> >
> >
> > the best way that i have found to stop small leaks at
> > fasteners and seams is
> > to apply a heavy vacuum to the outside of the tank at
> the
> > effected area to
> > draw any remaining fuel out and and suck the sealant
> in to
> > the void.
> > additional rivets added along seam lines while still
> wet
> > helps to.
> >
> >
> >
> > sealant application tricks.
> >
> >
> >
> > clean /clean /clean. pro-seal dose not like oil and
> most
> > primers but loves a
> > good cleaned alodined surface.
> >
> >
> >
> > mechanical grip/ light scuff on a flaying surface
> helps
> > with adhesion
> >
> >
> >
> > tape applied along side the joints to assist with
> clean up
> >
> >
> >
> > gloves, this stuff does not like to come off and mek
> is bad
> > for you
> >
> >
> >
> > proper fit of parts, don't expect pro-seal to fill
> > gaps.
> >
> >
> >
> > don't use to much. or you will get a wavy
> structure.
> >
> >
> >
> > use type a for seams it helps with waves and type b
> for
> > fillets and fastener
> > sealing
> >
> >
> >
> > don't exceed the pot life
> >
> >
> >
> > mix it right and use the correct proportions a good
> scale
> > really helps.
> >
> >
> >
> > use the longest pot life you can, i have found that
> 1/2
> > stuff to be almost
> > useless for most jobs.
> >
> >
> >
> > the proper place for sealant is on the inside of the
> tank
> > not globed on the
> > outside beside it looks ugly.
> >
> >
> >
> > tips of opening seams
> >
> >
> >
> > sharpend putty knives are great but be sure to round
> the
> > corners to help
> > prevent gouges. take your time here. gentle is better.
> >
> >
> >
> > removal of sealant
> >
> >
> >
> > scotch bright disks work great. wear a mask. and
> realodine
> > after done.
> >
> >
> >
> > tank testing, quick easy and cheap
> >
> >
> >
> > connect air/nitrogen supply to vent
> >
> > connect clear hose to drain about ten feet worth
> >
> > loop hose to floor and fill with water until you have
> a
> > loop with three feet
> > high on both sides
> >
> > add nitrogen until the water is four feet higher on
> one
> > side then the other.
> > you now have 2 psi in the tank. care should be taken
> here,
> > fill slowly.
> >
> > spray the seams with soapy water and look for bubbles.
> use
> > hand soap or
> > aircraft soap, some soaps are bad for alum.
> >
> >
> >
> > how to find that damn mystery leak i have tried
> everything
> > else.
> >
> > sometimes really small leaks are the worse to find,
> but one
> > way to track
> > them down is to apply dye-pen developer to the outside
> of
> > the tank it will
> > show up any tiny leaks. over a couple of days.
> >
> >
> >
> > and this ends fuel tank 101 hope it helps.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > rick miller
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> >
> >
> >
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> > <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List>
> > a>http://forums.matronics.com
> > <http://forums.matronics.com/>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >
> >
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> >
> >
> > <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List>
> > <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
>
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Airflow Fuel Filters |
| From: | "Don" <airflow2(at)bellsouth.net> |
The filter element does not need to be replaced. Just inspect and clean at your
condition inspection. If you need new O-rings, give us a call, the Viton O-rings
are a few bucks for the set.
Don at Airflow Performance
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181794#181794
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FASTPILOTRV8 <fastpilotrv8(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MX-20 Install manual |
Greg
I think I have one but I am not going up to the hangar until Sunday . I you haven't
gotten a copy by then call me
my cell 847-727-0026
Dane
N838RV RV8a
In a message dated 05/07/08 15:41:10 Central Daylight Time, gyoung@cs-sol.com writes:
I need a PDF copy of the installation manual for an MX-20. I bought a demo unit
and didn't get the manuals with it. I've found the Pilot's Guide & Quick Reference
online but Garmin says the install manual has to be downloaded by a dealer.
I tried all the URLs from the archives and tried to guess the name and download
it blindly. No luck - it looks like Garmin has truly hidden it this time
- unless someone knows more tricks. If anyone has it already or can download
it and send it I'd sure appreciate it. Thanks.
Regards,
Greg Young
Cell: 281-844-0987
gyoung@cs-sol.com
www.bentwing.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Cudney <yenduc(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: sniffle valve in RV 7A |
from Dave Cudney RV 7A struggler
> I am getting further along with my project and was just buttoning up
> a few odds an ends when I came to the sniffle valve for my IO 369.
> On the tail dragger there is not much of a problem routing the drain
> line from the sniffle valve --- but on the nose dragger, the nose
> gear bracing on the engine mount is in the way. Has any one out
> there solved this problem and what did you do?
Thanks in advance
dave
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: sniffle valve in RV 7A |
In a message dated 05/07/2008 8:14:16 PM Central Daylight Time,
yenduc(at)sbcglobal.net writes:
Has any one out
> there solved this problem and what did you do?
On a recently installed valve on an Aerosport IO-360 with AFP injection
mounted to forward sump (-7A), I had more of a problem getting the drain tube away
from the Vetterman crossovers. I cut the tube from the sniffle valve fairly
short (1"?) and soldered a brass 90 deg. fitting to it. The other end of this
fitting (from the aviation plumbing aisle at Lowes) provided for connection
for a copper tube the same size as from the sniffle valve (1/8"?) using a brass
compresion ferule. I installed the valve, then bent/routed a copper tube from
the 90 aft, securing it mid-length to the exhaust hangar cross-piece and
extended it aft out the air outlet so that when it drips (which it WILL) the fuel
will simply drop to the ground rather than down the nose gear fairing and onto
the pant.
Not sure if this will help with your situation, but it may offer some
options...
>From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark
_http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_
(http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/)
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | MX-20 Install manual |
Thank you all. I got the manual sent to me off list. Even after all these
years I still marvel at the speed of response on the lists. Thanks!
Regards,
Greg Young
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of FASTPILOTRV8
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: MX-20 Install manual
Greg
I think I have one but I am not going up to the hangar until Sunday . I you
haven't gotten a copy by then call me
my cell 847-727-0026
Dane
N838RV RV8a
In a message dated 05/07/08 15:41:10 Central Daylight Time,
gyoung@cs-sol.com writes:
I need a PDF copy of the installation manual for an MX-20. I bought a demo
unit and didn't get the manuals with it. I've found the Pilot's Guide &
Quick Reference online but Garmin says the install manual has to be
downloaded by a dealer. I tried all the URLs from the archives and tried to
guess the name and download it blindly. No luck - it looks like Garmin has
truly hidden it this time - unless someone knows more tricks. If anyone
has it already or can download it and send it I'd sure appreciate it.
Thanks.
Regards,
Greg Young
Cell: 281-844-0987
gyoung@cs-sol.com> gyoung@cs-sol.com
<http://www.bentwing.com/> www.bentwing.com
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"
alt="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Na
vigator?RV-List
.matronics.com"
alt="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
://www.matronics.com/contribution"
alt="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contrib
ution
_____
Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com
<http://www.mapquest.com/?ncid=mpqmap00030000000004> : America's #1 Mapping
Site.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Cudney <yenduc(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: sniffle valve in RV 7A |
Thanks --- I've got one of those aviation plumbing stores close by --
I'll try your method.
dave
On May 7, 2008, at 7:47 PM, Fiveonepw(at)aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 05/07/2008 8:14:16 PM Central Daylight Time, yenduc(at)sbcglobal.net
> writes:
> Has any one out
> > there solved this problem and what did you do?
> On a recently installed valve on an Aerosport IO-360 with AFP
> injection mounted to forward sump (-7A), I had more of a problem
> getting the drain tube away from the Vetterman crossovers. I cut
> the tube from the sniffle valve fairly short (1"?) and soldered a
> brass 90 deg. fitting to it. The other end of this fitting (from
> the aviation plumbing aisle at Lowes) provided for connection for a
> copper tube the same size as from the sniffle valve (1/8"?) using a
> brass compresion ferule. I installed the valve, then bent/routed a
> copper tube from the 90 aft, securing it mid-length to the exhaust
> hangar cross-piece and extended it aft out the air outlet so that
> when it drips (which it WILL) the fuel will simply drop to the
> ground rather than down the nose gear fairing and onto the pant.
>
> Not sure if this will help with your situation, but it may offer
> some options...
>
> From The PossumWorks in TN
> Mark
> http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/
>
>
> Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
> favorites at AOL Food.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | sniffle valve in RV 7A |
| From: | James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com> |
I guess I am missing something. With fuel injection, you will not have
fuel "dripping" down into the air box. The sniffle valve is necessary
with a carburator style fuel system. With that system you can cause raw
fuel to exceed the ability of the engine to ingest it. Especially if you
have an accelertor pump on the carb. That will possibly let fuel run back
into the air filter box. Am I in error? I have AFP system and it has
the fuel purge system which will take off all fuel pressure in the shut
down phase. During a starting phase the fuel is placed just in front of
the intake valve and "should" all be ingested.
Jim Nelson
IO-360
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | alternative fuel |
Hi All-
I tried to send this yesterday, but somehow pooched it. Looks like this
could have some serious potential, and be a wonderful thing for us.
http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?id=29204
glen matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Cudney <yenduc(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: sniffle valve in RV 7A |
On an IO 360 with horizontal induction mounted forward of a cold air
sump, small amounts of gas can pool in the sump after shutdown. A
sniffle valve is used to drain these few drops.
On May 8, 2008, at 6:25 AM, James H Nelson wrote:
>
> I guess I am missing something. With fuel injection, you will not
> have
> fuel "dripping" down into the air box. The sniffle valve is necessary
> with a carburator style fuel system. With that system you can cause
> raw
> fuel to exceed the ability of the engine to ingest it. Especially
> if you
> have an accelertor pump on the carb. That will possibly let fuel run
> back
> into the air filter box. Am I in error? I have AFP system and it has
> the fuel purge system which will take off all fuel pressure in the
> shut
> down phase. During a starting phase the fuel is placed just in
> front of
> the intake valve and "should" all be ingested.
>
> Jim Nelson
> IO-360
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "SteinAir, Inc." <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | sniffle valve in RV 7A |
Actually you can and will sometimes have fuel drain back down the intake
tubes with an injected system. Prime it for a few seconds too long and
it'll start dribbling, and sometimes on shutdown you can get a wee bit as
well. It's standard practice to at least put a "weep hole" in the FAB or
somewhere at the low point to make sure fuel doesn't pool where you don't
want it.
My 2 cents as usual.
Cheers,
Stein
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of James H Nelson
>Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 8:26 AM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: sniffle valve in RV 7A
>
>
>I guess I am missing something. With fuel injection, you will not have
>fuel "dripping" down into the air box. The sniffle valve is necessary
>with a carburator style fuel system. With that system you can cause raw
>fuel to exceed the ability of the engine to ingest it. Especially if you
>have an accelertor pump on the carb. That will possibly let fuel run back
>into the air filter box. Am I in error? I have AFP system and it has
>the fuel purge system which will take off all fuel pressure in the shut
>down phase. During a starting phase the fuel is placed just in front of
>the intake valve and "should" all be ingested.
>
>Jim Nelson
>IO-360
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jan <jan(at)claver.demon.co.uk> |
remover?
Thanks Charles ...
Jan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Kuss
Sent: 07 May 2008 22:37
Subject: Alodining Prior to Fuel Tank Sealing was Fw: RE: RV-List: Proseal
remover?
I am resending this with the subject line changed to aid in easier searching
of the archieves.
Charlie Kuss
--- On Wed, 5/7/08, Charles Kuss wrote:
> From: Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Proseal remover?
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, May 7, 2008, 5:35 PM
> Jan,
> The difference between "clear" and
> "gold" Alodine (or Iridite) is only cosmetic.
> They add a dye to the "gold" to aid you in
> knowing when the chromic conversion process has completed.
> I just did a quick search regarding the application of
> Pro-Seal or Chem Seal (as supplied by Vans)
> Here is what I found.
>
> http://www.aviationproductsinc.com/Publications/TDS_PDF/TDS_CS3204.pdf
>
>
http://corporateportal.ppg.com/NR/rdonlyres/22FFA52B-AC2C-4D75-AE20-08E03ACF
8EB8/0/asaguide.pdf
>
> Both simply stress that the surface be clean.
>
> I only know of several sets of fuel tanks which were built
> locally, which were Alodined prior to sealing. No one has
> had any sealing problems so far.
>
> Charlie Kuss
>
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 5/7/08, jan
> wrote:
>
> > From: jan <jan(at)claver.demon.co.uk>
> > Subject: RE: RV-List: Proseal remover?
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Date: Wednesday, May 7, 2008, 1:22 PM
> > Hi Richard, (nothing wrong with perfection .. :-)
> ...)
> > & Charles
> >
> >
> >
> > Is the reason for using clear and gold Alodine purely
> > esthetic or is there a
> > technical (chemical) reason why they are use on
> different
> > parts of the
> > aircraft (at Boeing) ? I have used the
> "gold"
> > Alodine quite a lot - prior to
> > painting ... on several parts of the RV I am building.
> > Especially the spar.
> >
> >
> >
> > >From a adhesion point - paint does stick very well
> to a
> > Alodined surface -
> > Does the maker of ProSeal have any official policy on
> using
> > Alodine prior to
> > application of its product?
> >
> >
> >
> > Do you know "how many / how widely" the
> practice
> > of alodining the inside of
> > the tanks are ??
> >
> >
> >
> > Jan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > RICHARD MILLER
> > Sent: 07 May 2008 00:22
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Proseal remover?
> >
> >
> >
> > hi guys
> >
> >
> >
> > jan i was taught to be a litle anal retentive and
> by
> > the way had to
> > follow boeing spec's so everything gets alodined.
> clear
> > for skins and gold
> > for every thing else. besides i like the color. and
> water
> > from bad fuel is
> > bad for alum tanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > larry if they don't leak now why play with it. but
> when
> > they start to leak
> > change them out when you pull the tank. it should only
> take
> > about an hour
> > per tank.
> >
> >
> >
> > about fuel filters, airflow performance has a filter
> prior
> > to the twin pump
> > setup it will stop any thing big enough to damage the
> > pumps, but, big but,
> > do you want to risk your bird on one fuel filter.
> install
> > one filter per
> > tank prior to the selector valve. and sleep better at
> > night. remember the
> > airflow system much more pressure then a carb. i have
> never
> > like the one
> > filter idea in certified aircraft. maybe i should
> apply for
> > an stc for two.
> > airflow fuel filters are an annual replacement item,
> > don't cheat
> >
> > Larry Bowen wrote:
> >
> > FYI, I used domed nut plates on my RV-8 tanks....and
> had to
> > cut a couple of
> > them off because they interfered with the fuel
> pick-up.
> > Sometimes
> > second-guessing uncle Van doesn't pay off....
> >
> > --
> > Larry Bowen
> > Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> > http://BowenAero.com
> >
> > On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 2:14 PM, jan
> > > > wrote:
> >
> > Hi Richard,
> >
> >
> >
> > I will be doing my hand build tanks later on this
> summer. I
> > have read your
> > article with great interest. First ... I have bought
> the
> > domed nut plates...
> > they are used on commercial planes from what I
> understand
> > ... and should
> > make a perfect seal with a "O" ring .. Then
> cover
> > the nut plate after
> > fitting with pro-seal as a extra safeguard against
> leaks.
> >
> >
> >
> > Do you recommend alodining the tank skin and the ribs
> ??
> > That is a new one
> > to me ... I thought cleaning with Aluprep ...rinse
> with
> > water ... and scuff
> > the seams is fine ??
> >
> >
> >
> > Appreciate you comments on this
> >
> >
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> >
> >
> > Jan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >
> > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > ] On
> > Behalf Of RICHARD MILLER
> > Sent: 06 May 2008 14:54
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Proseal remover?
> >
> >
> >
> > Since we seem to have so many complaints about fuel
> leaks,
> > lets cover fuel
> > tank 101.
> >
> >
> >
> > static loads on a fuel tank are less then .5 psi. duct
> tape
> > can hold .5 psi.
> > dynamic loads are variable due to high g loading and
> can
> > reach 4
> >
> > psi, with tank destruction emanate. the problem with
> > checking tanks is the
> > static pressure loading is applied to all surfaces and
> they
> > need to be
> > stressed to handle that load. most are not ie, the
> caps.
> >
> >
> >
> > next problem is the inherent movement of the structure
> as
> > it flexes. tearing
> > the sealant bonds.
> >
> >
> >
> > so lets assume that you built it close to right and
> now
> > want to test it.
> > water, fuel, any material with the exception of the
> > original sealant will
> > contaminate the joint during testing. so how do we
> remove
> > the contaminates?
> > we don't contaminate in the first place. the
> sealants
> > we are using are
> > sensitive to contaminates so air or better nitrogen is
> the
> > testing medium of
> > choice.
> >
> >
> >
> > after inspecting aircraft with properly applied
> pro-seal
> > that had over
> > twenty years in service, the stuff sticks. sloshing
> does
> > not work and will
> > result in a crash, the unfortunate part of this is
> that the
> > pilot is always
> > the first person at the crash site.. fire and medic
> support
> > might take a
> > little longer arriving. do not slosh tanks
> >
> >
> >
> > types of leaks.
> >
> >
> >
> > seam leaks, very rare, normally caused by poor
> > construction, or extreme g
> > loading.
> >
> >
> >
> > fastener leaks, more common also caused by high g
> loading
> > and flexing of the
> > structure, compounded but poor sealing practices. all
> tank
> > fasteners are to
> > be installed wet. and then sealed on the inside.
> >
> >
> >
> > access plate/fitting leaks, most common. cause
> improperly
> > applied sealant,
> > wrong nut plates , they should be all domed and
> sealed. too
> > long of screw
> > that goes through the nut plate dome. bad gaskets,
> failed
> > orings. rotation
> > of a fitting after sealant has dried. always use two
> > wrenches when removing
> > lines.
> >
> >
> >
> > the primary problem with tank repair is the lack of
> > structural integrity of
> > this tank. riveted tanks and the repair tricks where
> > designed around the
> > larger transport type aircraft. pro-seal sticks well
> and
> > can be a problem to
> > break the seams apart without disturbing/destroying
> the
> > structure.
> >
> >
> >
> > the best way that i have found to stop small leaks at
> > fasteners and seams is
> > to apply a heavy vacuum to the outside of the tank at
> the
> > effected area to
> > draw any remaining fuel out and and suck the sealant
> in to
> > the void.
> > additional rivets added along seam lines while still
> wet
> > helps to.
> >
> >
> >
> > sealant application tricks.
> >
> >
> >
> > clean /clean /clean. pro-seal dose not like oil and
> most
> > primers but loves a
> > good cleaned alodined surface.
> >
> >
> >
> > mechanical grip/ light scuff on a flaying surface
> helps
> > with adhesion
> >
> >
> >
> > tape applied along side the joints to assist with
> clean up
> >
> >
> >
> > gloves, this stuff does not like to come off and mek
> is bad
> > for you
> >
> >
> >
> > proper fit of parts, don't expect pro-seal to fill
> > gaps.
> >
> >
> >
> > don't use to much. or you will get a wavy
> structure.
> >
> >
> >
> > use type a for seams it helps with waves and type b
> for
> > fillets and fastener
> > sealing
> >
> >
> >
> > don't exceed the pot life
> >
> >
> >
> > mix it right and use the correct proportions a good
> scale
> > really helps.
> >
> >
> >
> > use the longest pot life you can, i have found that
> 1/2
> > stuff to be almost
> > useless for most jobs.
> >
> >
> >
> > the proper place for sealant is on the inside of the
> tank
> > not globed on the
> > outside beside it looks ugly.
> >
> >
> >
> > tips of opening seams
> >
> >
> >
> > sharpend putty knives are great but be sure to round
> the
> > corners to help
> > prevent gouges. take your time here. gentle is better.
> >
> >
> >
> > removal of sealant
> >
> >
> >
> > scotch bright disks work great. wear a mask. and
> realodine
> > after done.
> >
> >
> >
> > tank testing, quick easy and cheap
> >
> >
> >
> > connect air/nitrogen supply to vent
> >
> > connect clear hose to drain about ten feet worth
> >
> > loop hose to floor and fill with water until you have
> a
> > loop with three feet
> > high on both sides
> >
> > add nitrogen until the water is four feet higher on
> one
> > side then the other.
> > you now have 2 psi in the tank. care should be taken
> here,
> > fill slowly.
> >
> > spray the seams with soapy water and look for bubbles.
> use
> > hand soap or
> > aircraft soap, some soaps are bad for alum.
> >
> >
> >
> > how to find that damn mystery leak i have tried
> everything
> > else.
> >
> > sometimes really small leaks are the worse to find,
> but one
> > way to track
> > them down is to apply dye-pen developer to the outside
> of
> > the tank it will
> > show up any tiny leaks. over a couple of days.
> >
> >
> >
> > and this ends fuel tank 101 hope it helps.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > rick miller
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> >
> >
> >
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> > <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List>
> > a>http://forums.matronics.com
> > <http://forums.matronics.com/>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >
> >
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> >
> >
> > <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List>
> > <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
>
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Pichon <deanpichon(at)msn.com> |
remover?
Alodining is the recommended surface prep prior to applying polysulfide to
an aluminum surface. If you visit the PPG website
(http://corporateportal.ppg.com/NA/Aerospace/Sealants/Sealants_Products/Fue
lTank_StdTech.htm)
you will find that the highest strength (polysulfide) bonds are those made
to alodined surfaces. Within the aerospace industry, alodine (a.k.a. Chemf
ilm or Irridite or chromate conversion coating)is the the accepted best sur
face treatment for polysulfide sealing.
Regards,
> From: jan(at)claver.demon.co.uk> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: RE: Alo
dining Prior to Fuel Tank Sealing was Fw: RE: RV-List: Pro seal remover?> D
jan(at)claver.demon.co.uk>> > Thanks Charles ...> > Jan> > -----Original Messa
ge-----> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com> [mailto:owner-rv-list-se
rver(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Kuss> Sent: 07 May 2008 22:37> To:
rv-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: Alodining Prior to Fuel Tank Sealing was F
Kuss > > I am resending this with the subject line cha
nged to aid in easier searching> of the archieves.> Charlie Kuss> > > > ---
On Wed, 5/7/08, Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com> wrote:> > > From: Charle
s Kuss > > Subject: RE: RV-List: Proseal remover?> > To
: rv-list(at)matronics.com> > Date: Wednesday, May 7, 2008, 5:35 PM> > Jan,> >
The difference between "clear" and> > "gold" Alodine (or Iridite) is only
cosmetic.> > They add a dye to the "gold" to aid you in> > knowing when the
chromic conversion process has completed.> > I just did a quick search reg
arding the application of> > Pro-Seal or Chem Seal (as supplied by Vans)> >
Here is what I found.> > > > http://www.aviationproductsinc.com/Publicatio
ns/TDS_PDF/TDS_CS3204.pdf> > > >> http://corporateportal.ppg.com/NR/rdonlyr
es/22FFA52B-AC2C-4D75-AE20-08E03ACF> 8EB8/0/asaguide.pdf> > > > Both simply
stress that the surface be clean.> > > > I only know of several sets of fu
el tanks which were built> > locally, which were Alodined prior to sealing.
No one has> > had any sealing problems so far.> > > > Charlie Kuss> > > >
> > > > > > --- On Wed, 5/7/08, jan > > wrote:> > >
> > From: jan <jan(at)claver.demon.co.uk>> > > Subject: RE: RV-List: Proseal
remover?> > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com> > > Date: Wednesday, May 7, 2008,
1:22 PM> > > Hi Richard, (nothing wrong with perfection .. :-)> > ...)> > >
& Charles> > > > > > > > > > > > Is the reason for using clear and gold Al
odine purely> > > esthetic or is there a> > > technical (chemical) reason w
hy they are use on> > different> > > parts of the> > > aircraft (at Boeing)
? I have used the> > "gold"> > > Alodine quite a lot - prior to> > > paint
ing ... on several parts of the RV I am building.> > > Especially the spar.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >From a adhesion point - paint does stick very well
> > to a> > > Alodined surface -> > > Does the maker of ProSeal have any of
ficial policy on> > using> > > Alodine prior to> > > application of its pro
duct?> > > > > > > > > > > > Do you know "how many / how widely" the> > pra
ctice> > > of alodining the inside of> > > the tanks are ??> > > > > > > >
> > > > Jan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___
__ > > > > > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com> > > [mailto:owner-
rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf> > Of> > > RICHARD MILLER> > > Sent
: 07 May 2008 00:22> > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com> > > Subject: Re: RV-Lis
t: Proseal remover?> > > > > > > > > > > > hi guys> > > > > > > > > > > > j
an i was taught to be a litle anal retentive and> > by> > > the way had to>
> > follow boeing spec's so everything gets alodined.> > clear> > > for sk
ins and gold> > > for every thing else. besides i like the color. and> > wa
ter> > > from bad fuel is> > > bad for alum tanks.> > > > > > > > > > > > l
arry if they don't leak now why play with it. but> > when> > > they start t
o leak> > > change them out when you pull the tank. it should only> > take>
> > about an hour> > > per tank.> > > > > > > > > > > > about fuel filters
, airflow performance has a filter> > prior> > > to the twin pump> > > setu
p it will stop any thing big enough to damage the> > > pumps, but, big but,
> > > do you want to risk your bird on one fuel filter.> > install> > > one
filter per> > > tank prior to the selector valve. and sleep better at> > >
night. remember the> > > airflow system much more pressure then a carb. i
have> > never> > > like the one> > > filter idea in certified aircraft. may
be i should> > apply for> > > an stc for two.> > > airflow fuel filters are
an annual replacement item,> > > don't cheat> > > > > > Larry Bowen @bowenaero.com> wrote:> > > > > > FYI, I used domed nut plates on my RV-8 t
anks....and> > had to> > > cut a couple of> > > them off because they inter
fered with the fuel> > pick-up. > > > Sometimes> > > second-guessing uncle
Van doesn't pay off....> > > > > > -- > > > Larry Bowen> > > Larry@BowenAer
o.com> > > http://BowenAero.com > > > > > > On Tue,
May 6, 2008 at 2:14 PM, jan> > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > Hi Richard,> > > > > > > > > > > >
I will be doing my hand build tanks later on this> > summer. I> > > have re
ad your> > > article with great interest. First ... I have bought> > the> >
> domed nut plates...> > > they are used on commercial planes from what I>
> understand> > > ... and should> > > make a perfect seal with a "O" ring
.. Then> > cover> > > the nut plate after> > > fitting with pro-seal as a e
xtra safeguard against> > leaks.> > > > > > > > > > > > Do you recommend al
odining the tank skin and the ribs> > ??> > > That is a new one> > > to me
... I thought cleaning with Aluprep ...rinse> > with> > > water ... and scu
ff> > > the seams is fine ??> > > > > > > > > > > > Appreciate you comments
on this> > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards> > > > > > > > > > > > Jan> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > From: owner-rv-list-serve
r(at)matronics.com> > > > > > [mail
to:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com> > > ] On> > > Behalf Of RICHARD MILLER> > > Sent: 06 May 2008 14:54
> > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com> > > > > > S
ubject: Re: RV-List: Proseal remover?> > > > > > > > > > > > Since we seem
to have so many complaints about fuel> > leaks,> > > lets cover fuel> > > t
ank 101.> > > > > > > > > > > > static loads on a fuel tank are less then .
5 psi. duct> > tape> > > can hold .5 psi.> > > dynamic loads are variable d
ue to high g loading and> > can> > > reach 4> > > > > > psi, with tank dest
ruction emanate. the problem with> > > checking tanks is the> > > static pr
essure loading is applied to all surfaces and> > they> > > need to be> > >
stressed to handle that load. most are not ie, the> > caps.> > > > > > > >
> > > > next problem is the inherent movement of the structure> > as> > > i
t flexes. tearing> > > the sealant bonds.> > > > > > > > > > > > so lets as
sume that you built it close to right and> > now> > > want to test it.> > >
water, fuel, any material with the exception of the> > > original sealant
will> > > contaminate the joint during testing. so how do we> > remove> > >
the contaminates?> > > we don't contaminate in the first place. the> > sea
lants> > > we are using are> > > sensitive to contaminates so air or better
nitrogen is> > the> > > testing medium of> > > choice. > > > > > > > > > >
> > after inspecting aircraft with properly applied> > pro-seal> > > that
had over> > > twenty years in service, the stuff sticks. sloshing> > does>
> > not work and will> > > result in a crash, the unfortunate part of this
is> > that the> > > pilot is always> > > the first person at the crash site
.. fire and medic> > support> > > might take a> > > little longer arriving.
do not slosh tanks> > > > > > > > > > > > types of leaks.> > > > > > > > >
> > > seam leaks, very rare, normally caused by poor> > > construction, or
extreme g> > > loading.> > > > > > > > > > > > fastener leaks, more common
also caused by high g> > loading> > > and flexing of the> > > structure, c
ompounded but poor sealing practices. all> > tank> > > fasteners are to> >
> be installed wet. and then sealed on the inside.> > > > > > > > > > > > a
ccess plate/fitting leaks, most common. cause> > improperly> > > applied se
alant,> > > wrong nut plates , they should be all domed and> > sealed. too>
> > long of screw> > > that goes through the nut plate dome. bad gaskets,>
> failed> > > orings. rotation> > > of a fitting after sealant has dried.
always use two> > > wrenches when removing> > > lines.> > > > > > > > > > >
> the primary problem with tank repair is the lack of> > > structural inte
grity of> > > this tank. riveted tanks and the repair tricks where> > > des
igned around the> > > larger transport type aircraft. pro-seal sticks well>
> and> > > can be a problem to> > > break the seams apart without disturbi
ng/destroying> > the> > > structure.> > > > > > > > > > > > the best way th
at i have found to stop small leaks at> > > fasteners and seams is> > > to
apply a heavy vacuum to the outside of the tank at> > the> > > effected are
a to> > > draw any remaining fuel out and and suck the sealant> > in to> >
> the void.> > > additional rivets added along seam lines while still> > we
t> > > helps to. > > > > > > > > > > > > sealant application tricks.> > > >
> > > > > > > > clean /clean /clean. pro-seal dose not like oil and> > mos
t> > > primers but loves a> > > good cleaned alodined surface. > > > > > >
> > > > > > mechanical grip/ light scuff on a flaying surface> > helps> > >
with adhesion> > > > > > > > > > > > tape applied along side the joints to
assist with> > clean up> > > > > > > > > > > > gloves, this stuff does not
like to come off and mek> > is bad> > > for you> > > > > > > > > > > > pro
per fit of parts, don't expect pro-seal to fill> > > gaps.> > > > > > > > >
> > > don't use to much. or you will get a wavy> > structure. > > > > > >
> > > > > > use type a for seams it helps with waves and type b> > for> > >
fillets and fastener> > > sealing> > > > > > > > > > > > don't exceed the
pot life > > > > > > > > > > > > mix it right and use the correct proportio
ns a good> > scale> > > really helps.> > > > > > > > > > > > use the longes
t pot life you can, i have found that> > 1/2> > > stuff to be almost> > > u
seless for most jobs.> > > > > > > > > > > > the proper place for sealant i
s on the inside of the> > tank> > > not globed on the> > > outside beside i
t looks ugly.> > > > > > > > > > > > tips of opening seams> > > > > > > > >
> > > sharpend putty knives are great but be sure to round> > the> > > cor
ners to help> > > prevent gouges. take your time here. gentle is better.> >
> > > > > > > > > > removal of sealant > > > > > > > > > > > > scotch brig
ht disks work great. wear a mask. and> > realodine> > > after done.> > > >
> > > > > > > > tank testing, quick easy and cheap> > > > > > > > > > > > c
onnect air/nitrogen supply to vent > > > > > > connect clear hose to drain
about ten feet worth> > > > > > loop hose to floor and fill with water unti
l you have> > a> > > loop with three feet> > > high on both sides > > > > >
> add nitrogen until the water is four feet higher on> > one> > > side the
n the other.> > > you now have 2 psi in the tank. care should be taken> > h
ere,> > > fill slowly.> > > > > > spray the seams with soapy water and look
for bubbles.> > use> > > hand soap or> > > aircraft soap, some soaps are b
ad for alum.> > > > > > > > > > > > how to find that damn mystery leak i ha
ve tried> > everything> > > else.> > > > > > sometimes really small leaks a
re the worse to find,> > but one> > > way to track> > > them down is to app
ly dye-pen developer to the outside> > of> > > the tank it will> > > show u
p any tiny leaks. over a couple of days.> > > > > > > > > > > > and this en
ds fuel tank 101 hope it helps.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rick mil
ler> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound,
and > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution> > > > > > > > > > > >> > t="_blank">http
://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List> > > <http://www.matronics.com/Navig
ator?RV-List> > > > a>http://forums.matronics.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > >
> > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > > > > > > > <http://
www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List> > > > <http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution>> > > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > know-it-all w
ith Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62
sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all
with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR
========> > >
_________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jan <jan(at)claver.demon.co.uk> |
remover?
Thanks guys.... Very interesting reading ....
Jan
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dean Pichon
Sent: 08 May 2008 21:44
Subject: RE: Alodining Prior to Fuel Tank Sealing was Fw: RE: RV-List: Pro
seal remover?
Alodining is the recommended surface prep prior to applying polysulfide to
an aluminum surface. If you visit the PPG website
(http://corporateportal.ppg.com/NA/Aerospace/Sealants/Sealants_Products/Fuel
Tank_StdTech.htm
<http://corporateportal.ppg.com/NA/Aerospace/Sealants/Sealants_Products/Fuel
Tank_StdTech.htm> )
you will find that the highest strength (polysulfide) bonds are those made
to alodined surfaces. Within the aerospace industry, alodine (a.k.a.
Chemfilm or Irridite or chromate conversion coating)is the the accepted best
surface treatment for polysulfide sealing.
Regards,
> From: jan(at)claver.demon.co.uk
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Alodining Prior to Fuel Tank Sealing was Fw: RE: RV-List: Pro
seal remover?
> Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 20:27:05 +0100
>
>
> Thanks Charles ...
>
> Jan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Kuss
> Sent: 07 May 2008 22:37
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Alodining Prior to Fuel Tank Sealing was Fw: RE: RV-List: Proseal
> remover?
>
>
> I am resending this with the subject line changed to aid in easier
searching
> of the archieves.
> Charlie Kuss
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 5/7/08, Charles Kuss wrote:
>
> > From: Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com>
> > Subject: RE: RV-List: Proseal remover?
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Date: Wednesday, May 7, 2008, 5:35 PM
> > Jan,
> > The difference between "clear" and
> > "gold" Alodine (or Iridite) is only cosmetic.
> > They add a dye to the "gold" to aid you in
> > knowing when the chromic conversion process has completed.
> > I just did a quick search regarding the application of
> > Pro-Seal or Chem Seal (as supplied by Vans)
> > Here is what I found.
> >
> > http://www.aviationproductsinc.com/Publications/TDS_PDF/TDS_CS3204.pdf
> >
> >
>
http://corporateportal.ppg.com/NR/rdonlyres/22FFA52B-AC2C-4D75-AE20-08E03ACF
> 8EB8/0/asaguide.pdf
> >
> > Both simply stress that the surface be clean.
> >
> > I only know of several sets of fuel tanks which were built
> > locally, which were Alodined prior to sealing. No one has
> > had any sealing problems so far.
> >
> > Charlie Kuss
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 5/7/08, jan
> > wrote:
> >
> > > From: jan <jan(at)claver.demon.co.uk>
> > > Subject: RE: RV-List: Proseal remover?
> > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Date: Wednesday, May 7, 2008, 1:22 PM
> > > Hi Richard, (nothing wrong with perfection .. :-)
> > ...)
> > > & Charles
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Is the reason for using clear and gold Alodine purely
> > > esthetic or is there a
> > > technical (chemical) reason why they are use on
> > different
> > > parts of the
> > > aircraft (at Boeing) ? I have used the
> > "gold"
> > > Alodine quite a lot - prior to
> > > painting ... on several parts of the RV I am building.
> > > Especially the spar.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From a adhesion point - paint does stick very well
> > to a
> > > Alodined surface -
> > > Does the maker of ProSeal have any official policy on
> > using
> > > Alodine prior to
> > > application of its product?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Do you know "how many / how widely" the
> > practice
> > > of alodining the inside of
> > > the tanks are ??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf
> > Of
> > > RICHARD MILLER
> > > Sent: 07 May 2008 00:22
> > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Proseal remover?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > hi guys
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > jan i was taught to be a litle anal retentive and
> > by
> > > the way had to
> > > follow boeing spec's so everything gets alodined.
> > clear
> > > for skins and gold
> > > for every thing else. besides i like the color. and
> > water
> > > from bad fuel is
> > > bad for alum tanks.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > larry if they don't leak now why play with it. but
> > when
> > > they start to leak
> > > change them out when you pull the tank. it should only
> > take
> > > about an hour
> > > per tank.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > about fuel filters, airflow performance has a filter
> > prior
> > > to the twin pump
> > > setup it will stop any thing big enough to damage the
> > > pumps, but, big but,
> > > do you want to risk your bird on one fuel filter.
> > install
> > > one filter per
> > > tank prior to the selector valve. and sleep better at
> > > night. remember the
> > > airflow system much more pressure then a carb. i have
> > never
> > > like the one
> > > filter idea in certified aircraft. maybe i should
> > apply for
> > > an stc for two.
> > > airflow fuel filters are an annual replacement item,
> > > don't cheat
> > >
> > > Larry Bowen wrote:
> > >
> > > FYI, I used domed nut plates on my RV-8 tanks....and
> > had to
> > > cut a couple of
> > > them off because they interfered with the fuel
> > pick-up.
> > > Sometimes
> > > second-guessing uncle Van doesn't pay off....
> > >
> > > --
> > > Larry Bowen
> > > Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> > > http://BowenAero.com
> > >
> > > On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 2:14 PM, jan
> > > > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Richard,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I will be doing my hand build tanks later on this
> > summer. I
> > > have read your
> > > article with great interest. First ... I have bought
> > the
> > > domed nut plates...
> > > they are used on commercial planes from what I
> > understand
> > > ... and should
> > > make a perfect seal with a "O" ring .. Then
> > cover
> > > the nut plate after
> > > fitting with pro-seal as a extra safeguard against
> > leaks.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Do you recommend alodining the tank skin and the ribs
> > ??
> > > That is a new one
> > > to me ... I thought cleaning with Aluprep ...rinse
> > with
> > > water ... and scuff
> > > the seams is fine ??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Appreciate you comments on this
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Best regards
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > >
> > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > >
> > > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > > ] On
> > > Behalf Of RICHARD MILLER
> > > Sent: 06 May 2008 14:54
> > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Proseal remover?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Since we seem to have so many complaints about fuel
> > leaks,
> > > lets cover fuel
> > > tank 101.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > static loads on a fuel tank are less then .5 psi. duct
> > tape
> > > can hold .5 psi.
> > > dynamic loads are variable due to high g loading and
> > can
> > > reach 4
> > >
> > > psi, with tank destruction emanate. the problem with
> > > checking tanks is the
> > > static pressure loading is applied to all surfaces and
> > they
> > > need to be
> > > stressed to handle that load. most are not ie, the
> > caps.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > next problem is the inherent movement of the structure
> > as
> > > it flexes. tearing
> > > the sealant bonds.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > so lets assume that you built it close to right and
> > now
> > > want to test it.
> > > water, fuel, any material with the exception of the
> > > original sealant will
> > > contaminate the joint during testing. so how do we
> > remove
> > > the contaminates?
> > > we don't contaminate in the first place. the
> > sealants
> > > we are using are
> > > sensitive to contaminates so air or better nitrogen is
> > the
> > > testing medium of
> > > choice.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > after inspecting aircraft with properly applied
> > pro-seal
> > > that had over
> > > twenty years in service, the stuff sticks. sloshing
> > does
> > > not work and will
> > > result in a crash, the unfortunate part of this is
> > that the
> > > pilot is always
> > > the first person at the crash site.. fire and medic
> > support
> > > might take a
> > > little longer arriving. do not slosh tanks
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > types of leaks.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > seam leaks, very rare, normally caused by poor
> > > construction, or extreme g
> > > loading.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > fastener leaks, more common also caused by high g
> > loading
> > > and flexing of the
> > > structure, compounded but poor sealing practices. all
> > tank
> > > fasteners are to
> > > be installed wet. and then sealed on the inside.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > access plate/fitting leaks, most common. cause
> > improperly
> > > applied sealant,
> > > wrong nut plates , they should be all domed and
> > sealed. too
> > > long of screw
> > > that goes through the nut plate dome. bad gaskets,
> > failed
> > > orings. rotation
> > > of a fitting after sealant has dried. always use two
> > > wrenches when removing
> > > lines.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > the primary problem with tank repair is the lack of
> > > structural integrity of
> > > this tank. riveted tanks and the repair tricks where
> > > designed around the
> > > larger transport type aircraft. pro-seal sticks well
> > and
> > > can be a problem to
> > > break the seams apart without disturbing/destroying
> > the
> > > structure.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > the best way that i have found to stop small leaks at
> > > fasteners and seams is
> > > to apply a heavy vacuum to the outside of the tank at
> > the
> > > effected area to
> > > draw any remaining fuel out and and suck the sealant
> > in to
> > > the void.
> > > additional rivets added along seam lines while still
> > wet
> > > helps to.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > sealant application tricks.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > clean /clean /clean. pro-seal dose not like oil and
> > most
> > > primers but loves a
> > > good cleaned alodined surface.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > mechanical grip/ light scuff on a flaying surface
> > helps
> > > with adhesion
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > tape applied along side the joints to assist with
> > clean up
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > gloves, this stuff does not like to come off and mek
> > is bad
> > > for you
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > proper fit of parts, don't expect pro-seal to fill
> > > gaps.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > don't use to much. or you will get a wavy
> > structure.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > use type a for seams it helps with waves and type b
> > for
> > > fillets and fastener
> > > sealing
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > don't exceed the pot life
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > mix it right and use the correct proportions a good
> > scale
> > > really helps.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > use the longest pot life you can, i have found that
> > 1/2
> > > stuff to be almost
> > > useless for most jobs.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > the proper place for sealant is on the inside of the
> > tank
> > > not globed on the
> > > outside beside it looks ugly.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > tips of opening seams
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > sharpend putty knives are great but be sure to round
> > the
> > > corners to help
> > > prevent gouges. take your time here. gentle is better.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > removal of sealant
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > scotch bright disks work great. wear a mask. and
> > realodine
> > > after done.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > tank testing, quick easy and cheap
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > connect air/nitrogen supply to vent
> > >
> > > connect clear hose to drain about ten feet worth
> > >
> > > loop hose to floor and fill with water until you have
> > a
> > > loop with three feet
> > > high on both sides
> > >
> > > add nitrogen until the water is four feet higher on
> > one
> > > side then the other.
> > > you now have 2 psi in the tank. care should be taken
> > here,
> > > fill slowly.
> > >
> > > spray the seams with soapy water and look for bubbles.
> > use
> > > hand soap or
> > > aircraft soap, some soaps are bad for alum.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > how to find that damn mystery leak i have tried
> > everything
> > > else.
> > >
> > > sometimes really small leaks are the worse to find,
> > but one
> > > way to track
> > > them down is to apply dye-pen developer to the outside
> > of
> > > the tank it will
> > > show up any tiny leaks. over a couple of days.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > and this ends fuel tank 101 hope it helps.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > rick miller
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > >
> > > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > > <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> > > <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List>
> > > a>http://forums.matronics.com
> > > <http://forums.matronics.com/>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > >
> > >
> > > <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List>
> > > <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> >
> >
> >
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott bilinski <rv8a2001(at)yahoo.com> |
seal remover?
Used some Pro-Seal on a car projet a while back but then had to remove it..
....paint remover worked fairly well.=0A=0A-Scott RV-8a=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A---
-- Original Message ----=0AFrom: jan <jan(at)claver.demon.co.uk>=0ATo: rv-list
@matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, May 8, 2008 2:05:50 PM=0ASubject: RE: Alod
ining Prior to Fuel Tank Sealing was Fw: RE: RV-List: Pro seal remover?=0A
=0A=0AThanks guys=85. Very interesting reading =85.=0A-=0AJan=0A-=0A=0A
________________________________=0A=0AFrom:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.c
om [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dean Pichon=0AS
ent: 08 May 2008 21:44=0ATo: rv-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Alodining
Prior to Fuel Tank Sealing was Fw: RE: RV-List: Pro seal remover?=0A-=0A
Alodining is the recommended surface prep prior to applying polysulfide to
an aluminum surface.- If-you visit the PPG website=0A-=0A(http://corp
orateportal.ppg.com/NA/Aerospace/Sealants/Sealants_Products/FuelTank_StdTec
h.htm)=0A-=0Ayou will find that the highest strength (polysulfide) bonds
are those made to alodined surfaces.- Within the aerospace industry, alod
ine (a.k.a. Chemfilm or Irridite or chromate conversion coating)is the the
accepted best surface treatment for polysulfide sealing.=0A-=0ARegards,
=0A=0A=0A> From: jan(at)claver.demon.co.uk=0A> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com=0A> S
ubject: RE: Alodining Prior to Fuel Tank Sealing was Fw: RE: RV-List: Pro s
eal remover?=0A> Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 20:27:05 +0100=0A> =0A> --> RV-List
message posted by: jan =0A> =0A> Thanks Charles ...
=0A> =0A> Jan=0A> =0A> -----Original Message-----=0A> From: owner-rv-list-s
erver(at)matronics.com=0A> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Beha
lf Of Charles Kuss=0A> Sent: 07 May 2008 22:37=0A> To: rv-list(at)matronics.co
m=0A> Subject: Alodining Prior to Fuel Tank Sealing was Fw: RE: RV-List: Pr
askuss(at)yahoo.com>=0A> =0A> I am resending this with the subject line change
d to aid in easier searching=0A> of the archieves.=0A> Charlie Kuss=0A> =0A
> =0A> =0A> --- On Wed, 5/7/08, Charles Kuss wrote:=0A
> =0A> > From: Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com>=0A> > Subject: RE: RV-List
: Proseal remover?=0A> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com=0A> > Date: Wednesday, M
ay 7, 2008, 5:35 PM=0A> > Jan,=0A> > The difference between "clear" and=0A>
> "gold" Alodine (or Iridite) is only cosmetic.=0A> > They add a dye to th
e "gold" to aid you in=0A> > knowing when the chromic conversion process ha
s completed.=0A> > I just did a quick search regarding the application of
=0A> > Pro-Seal or Chem Seal (as supplied by Vans)=0A> > Here is what I fou
nd.=0A> > =0A> > http://www.aviationproductsinc.com/Publications/TDS_PDF/TD
S_CS3204.pdf=0A> > =0A> >=0A> http://corporateportal.ppg.com/NR/rdonlyres/2
2FFA52B-AC2C-4D75-AE20-08E03ACF=0A> 8EB8/0/asaguide.pdf=0A> > =0A> > Both s
imply stress that the surface be clean.=0A> > =0A> > I only know of several
sets of fuel tanks which were built=0A> > locally, which were Alodined pri
or to sealing. No one has=0A> > had any sealing problems so far.=0A> > =0A>
> Charlie Kuss=0A> > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > --- On Wed, 5/7/08, jan <
jan(at)claver.demon.co.uk>=0A> > wrote:=0A> > =0A> > > From: jan <jan(at)claver.d
emon.co.uk>=0A> > > Subject: RE: RV-List: Proseal remover?=0A> > > To: rv-l
ist(at)matronics.com=0A> > > Date: Wednesday, May 7, 2008, 1:22 PM=0A> > > Hi
Richard, (nothing wrong with perfection .. :-)=0A> > ...)=0A> > > & Charles
=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > Is the reason for using clear and gold
Alodine purely=0A> > > esthetic or is there a=0A> > > technical (chemical)
reason why they are use on=0A> > different=0A> > > parts of the=0A> > > air
craft (at Boeing) ? I have used the=0A> > "gold"=0A> > > Alodine quite a lo
t - prior to=0A> > > painting ... on several parts of the RV I am building.
=0A> > > Especially the spar.=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > >From a ad
hesion point - paint does stick very well=0A> > to a=0A> > > Alodined surfa
ce -=0A> > > Does the maker of ProSeal have any official policy on=0A> > us
ing=0A> > > Alodine prior to=0A> > > application of its product?=0A> > >
=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > Do you know "how many / how widely" the=0A> > pr
actice=0A> > > of alodining the inside of=0A> > > the tanks are ??=0A> > >
=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > Jan =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > >
=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > _____ =0A> > > =0A> > > From:
owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com=0A> > > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf=0A> > Of=0A> > > RICHARD MILLER=0A> > > Sent: 07 May
2008 00:22=0A> > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com=0A> > > Subject: Re: RV-List:
Proseal remover?=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > hi guys=0A> > > =0A> >
> =0A> > > =0A> > > jan i was taught to be a litle anal retentive and=0A>
> by=0A> > > the way had to=0A> > > follow boeing spec's so everything gets
alodined.=0A> > clear=0A> > > for skins and gold=0A> > > for every thing e
lse. besides i like the color. and=0A> > water=0A> > > from bad fuel is=0A>
> > bad for alum tanks.=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > larry if they d
on't leak now why play with it. but=0A> > when=0A> > > they start to leak
=0A> > > change them out when you pull the tank. it should only=0A> > take
=0A> > > about an hour=0A> > > per tank.=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > >
about fuel filters, airflow performance has a filter=0A> > prior=0A> > > t
o the twin pump=0A> > > setup it will stop any thing big enough to damage t
he=0A> > > pumps, but, big but,=0A> > > do you want to risk your bird on on
e fuel filter.=0A> > install=0A> > > one filter per=0A> > > tank prior to t
he selector valve. and sleep better at=0A> > > night. remember the=0A> > >
airflow system much more pressure then a carb. i have=0A> > never=0A> > > l
ike the one=0A> > > filter idea in certified aircraft. maybe i should=0A> >
apply for=0A> > > an stc for two.=0A> > > airflow fuel filters are an annu
al replacement item,=0A> > > don't cheat=0A> > > =0A> > > Larry Bowen wrote:=0A> > > =0A> > > FYI, I used domed nut plates on my
RV-8 tanks....and=0A> > had to=0A> > > cut a couple of=0A> > > them off be
cause they interfered with the fuel=0A> > pick-up. =0A> > > Sometimes=0A> >
> second-guessing uncle Van doesn't pay off....=0A> > > =0A> > > -- =0A> >
> Larry Bowen=0A> > > Larry@BowenAero.com=0A> > > http://BowenAero.com =0A> > > =0A> > > On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 2:14 PM, jan
=0A> > > > > >
wrote:=0A> > > =0A> > > Hi Richard,=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > I wi
ll be doing my hand build tanks later on this=0A> > summer. I=0A> > > have
read your=0A> > > article with great interest. First ... I have bought=0A>
> the=0A> > > domed nut plates...=0A> > > they are used on commercial plane
s from what I=0A> > understand=0A> > > ... and should=0A> > > make a perfec
t seal with a "O" ring .. Then=0A> > cover=0A> > > the nut plate after=0A>
> > fitting with pro-seal as a extra safeguard against=0A> > leaks.=0A> > >
=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > Do you recommend alodining the tank skin and th
e ribs=0A> > ??=0A> > > That is a new one=0A> > > to me ... I thought clean
ing with Aluprep ...rinse=0A> > with=0A> > > water ... and scuff=0A> > > th
e seams is fine ??=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > Appreciate you commen
ts on this=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > Best regards=0A> > > =0A> > >
=0A> > > =0A> > > Jan=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > _____
=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com=0A> > >
=0A> > > [mailto:owner-rv-list-
server(at)matronics.com=0A> > > ]
On=0A> > > Behalf Of RICHARD MILLER=0A> > > Sent: 06 May 2008 14:54=0A> > >
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com=0A> > > =0A> >
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Proseal remover?=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > >
Since we seem to have so many complaints about fuel=0A> > leaks,=0A> > > l
ets cover fuel=0A> > > tank 101.=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > static
loads on a fuel tank are less then .5 psi. duct=0A> > tape=0A> > > can hold
.5 psi.=0A> > > dynamic loads are variable due to high g loading and=0A> >
can=0A> > > reach 4=0A> > > =0A> > > psi, with tank destruction emanate. t
he problem with=0A> > > checking tanks is the=0A> > > static pressure loadi
ng is applied to all surfaces and=0A> > they=0A> > > need to be=0A> > > str
essed to handle that load. most are not ie, the=0A> > caps.=0A> > > =0A> >
> =0A> > > =0A> > > next problem is the inherent movement of the structure
=0A> > as=0A> > > it flexes. tearing=0A> > > the sealant bonds.=0A> > > =0A
> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > so lets assume that you built it close to right and
=0A> > now=0A> > > want to test it.=0A> > > water, fuel, any material with
the exception of the=0A> > > original sealant will=0A> > > contaminate the
joint during testing. so how do we=0A> > remove=0A> > > the contaminates?
=0A> > > we don't contaminate in the first place. the=0A> > sealants=0A> >
> we are using are=0A> > > sensitive to contaminates so air or better nitro
gen is=0A> > the=0A> > > testing medium of=0A> > > choice. =0A> > > =0A> >
> =0A> > > =0A> > > after inspecting aircraft with properly applied=0A> > p
ro-seal=0A> > > that had over=0A> > > twenty years in service, the stuff st
icks. sloshing=0A> > does=0A> > > not work and will=0A> > > result in a cra
sh, the unfortunate part of this is=0A> > that the=0A> > > pilot is always
=0A> > > the first person at the crash site.. fire and medic=0A> > support
=0A> > > might take a=0A> > > little longer arriving. do not slosh tanks=0A
> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > types of leaks.=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > >
=0A> > > seam leaks, very rare, normally caused by poor=0A> > > constructio
n, or extreme g=0A> > > loading.=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > fastene
r leaks, more common also caused by high g=0A> > loading=0A> > > and flexin
g of the=0A> > > structure, compounded but poor sealing practices. all=0A>
> tank=0A> > > fasteners are to=0A> > > be installed wet. and then sealed o
n the inside.=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > access plate/fitting leaks
, most common. cause=0A> > improperly=0A> > > applied sealant,=0A> > > wron
g nut plates , they should be all domed and=0A> > sealed. too=0A> > > long
of screw=0A> > > that goes through the nut plate dome. bad gaskets,=0A> > f
ailed=0A> > > orings. rotation=0A> > > of a fitting after sealant has dried
. always use two=0A> > > wrenches when removing=0A> > > lines.=0A> > > =0A>
> > =0A> > > =0A> > > the primary problem with tank repair is the lack of
=0A> > > structural integrity of=0A> > > this tank. riveted tanks and the r
epair tricks where=0A> > > designed around the=0A> > > larger transport typ
e aircraft. pro-seal sticks well=0A> > and=0A> > > can be a problem to=0A>
> > break the seams apart without disturbing/destroying=0A> > the=0A> > > s
tructure.=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > the best way that i have found
to stop small leaks at=0A> > > fasteners and seams is=0A> > > to apply a h
eavy vacuum to the outside of the tank at=0A> > the=0A> > > effected area t
o=0A> > > draw any remaining fuel out and and suck the sealant=0A> > in to
=0A> > > the void.=0A> > > additional rivets added along seam lines while s
till=0A> > wet=0A> > > helps to. =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > sealan
t application tricks.=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > clean /clean /clea
n. pro-seal dose not like oil and=0A> > most=0A> > > primers but loves a=0A
> > > good cleaned alodined surface. =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > me
chanical grip/ light scuff on a flaying surface=0A> > helps=0A> > > with ad
hesion=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > tape applied along side the joint
s to assist with=0A> > clean up=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > gloves,
this stuff does not like to come off and mek=0A> > is bad=0A> > > for you
=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > proper fit of parts, don't expect pro-s
eal to fill=0A> > > gaps.=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > don't use to m
uch. or you will get a wavy=0A> > structure. =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A
> > > use type a for seams it helps with waves and type b=0A> > for=0A> > >
fillets and fastener=0A> > > sealing=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > do
n't exceed the pot life =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > mix it right an
d use the correct proportions a good=0A> > scale=0A> > > really helps.=0A>
> > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > use the longest pot life you can, i have fou
nd that=0A> > 1/2=0A> > > stuff to be almost=0A> > > useless for most jobs.
=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > the proper place for sealant is on the
inside of the=0A> > tank=0A> > > not globed on the=0A> > > outside beside i
t looks ugly.=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > tips of opening seams=0A>
> > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > sharpend putty knives are great but be sure
to round=0A> > the=0A> > > corners to help=0A> > > prevent gouges. take you
r time here. gentle is better.=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > removal o
f sealant =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > scotch bright disks work grea
t. wear a mask. and=0A> > realodine=0A> > > after done.=0A> > > =0A> > >
=0A> > > =0A> > > tank testing, quick easy and cheap=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A>
> > =0A> > > connect air/nitrogen supply to vent =0A> > > =0A> > > connect
clear hose to drain about ten feet worth=0A> > > =0A> > > loop hose to floo
r and fill with water until you have=0A> > a=0A> > > loop with three feet
=0A> > > high on both sides =0A> > > =0A> > > add nitrogen until the water
is four feet higher on=0A> > one=0A> > > side then the other.=0A> > > you n
ow have 2 psi in the tank. care should be taken=0A> > here,=0A> > > fill sl
owly.=0A> > > =0A> > > spray the seams with soapy water and look for bubble
s.=0A> > use=0A> > > hand soap or=0A> > > aircraft soap, some soaps are bad
for alum.=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > how to find that damn mystery
leak i have tried=0A> > everything=0A> > > else.=0A> > > =0A> > > sometime
s really small leaks are the worse to find,=0A> > but one=0A> > > way to tr
ack=0A> > > them down is to apply dye-pen developer to the outside=0A> > of
=0A> > > the tank it will=0A> > > show up any tiny leaks. over a couple of
days.=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > and this ends fuel tank 101 hope i
t helps.=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > rick miller
=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A
> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> >
> =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > >
=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > _____ =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > Be a better fri
end, newshound, and =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > http://www.matronic
s.com/contribution=0A> > > <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> =0A> > >
=0A> > > =0A> > >=0A> > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV
-List=0A> > > <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List> =0A> > > a>http:
//forums.matronics.com=0A> > > <http://forums.matronics.com/> =0A> > > =0A>
> > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > _____ =0A> > >
=0A> > > =0A> > > =0A> > > Be a better friend, newshound, and =0A> > > =0A>
> > =0A> > > <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List> =0A> > > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > Be a better fri
end, newshound, and =0A> > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. =0A>
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ=0A> =0A>
=0A> Be a better friend, newshound, and =0A> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile
. Try it now.=0A> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9t
AcJ=0A=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A=0AGet
Free (PRODUCT) RED=99 Emoticons, Winks and Display Pics. Check it out! =0A
====0A=0A=0A ___________________________________________________
_________________________________=0ABe a better friend, newshound, and =0Ak
now-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt
=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Cudney <yenduc(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: sniffle valve in RV 7A |
The sniffle valve I got from Superior with my engine sucks. Or more
properly does not seal well under suction ( I can detect a slight leak
when I check it by blowing backwards on it). I believe Dan Checkoway
told me he replaced his with a better one but I lost my notes. Anyone
have a sniffle valve source?
Thanks
dave
On May 8, 2008, at 9:11 AM, SteinAir, Inc. wrote:
>
> Actually you can and will sometimes have fuel drain back down the
> intake
> tubes with an injected system. Prime it for a few seconds too long
> and
> it'll start dribbling, and sometimes on shutdown you can get a wee
> bit as
> well. It's standard practice to at least put a "weep hole" in the
> FAB or
> somewhere at the low point to make sure fuel doesn't pool where you
> don't
> want it.
>
> My 2 cents as usual.
>
> Cheers,
> Stein
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of James H
>> Nelson
>> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 8:26 AM
>> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RV-List: sniffle valve in RV 7A
>>
>>
>>
>> I guess I am missing something. With fuel injection, you will not
>> have
>> fuel "dripping" down into the air box. The sniffle valve is
>> necessary
>> with a carburator style fuel system. With that system you can
>> cause raw
>> fuel to exceed the ability of the engine to ingest it. Especially
>> if you
>> have an accelertor pump on the carb. That will possibly let fuel
>> run back
>> into the air filter box. Am I in error? I have AFP system and it
>> has
>> the fuel purge system which will take off all fuel pressure in the
>> shut
>> down phase. During a starting phase the fuel is placed just in
>> front of
>> the intake valve and "should" all be ingested.
>>
>> Jim Nelson
>> IO-360
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: sniffle valve in RV 7A |
In a message dated 05/08/2008 8:33:29 AM Central Daylight Time,
rv9jim(at)juno.com writes:
I guess I am missing something. With fuel injection, you will not have
fuel "dripping" down into the air box. The sniffle valve is necessary
with a carburator style fuel system. With that system you can cause raw
fuel to exceed the ability of the engine to ingest it. Especially if you
have an accelertor pump on the carb. That will possibly let fuel run back
into the air filter box. Am I in error? I have AFP system and it has
the fuel purge system which will take off all fuel pressure in the shut
down phase. During a starting phase the fuel is placed just in front of
the intake valve and "should" all be ingested.
>>>
Yes, but only while the engine is cranking. When opened, the purge valve
routes all fuel back to wherever it is plumbed, and prevents any from entering
the engine via the spider when it is open, which is very useful to run cool fuel
through the entire system with the boost pump on to help avoid vapor lock if
the engine is hot. BUT- any time the boost pump is on (even is mixture
control is at idle cut-off), "some" fuel is being discharged from the injectors.
If
not ingested by the cylinders by cranking the engine, it simply runs down the
intake tubes into the "sump" (actually, the manifold under the oil sump) and
will accumulate there. Hence the need to drain it via the sniffle valve.
Careful control of the boost pump and purge valve will mitigate this drainage,
but ultimately some fuel will wind up in the manifold. The AFP system will
always "leak" fuel at the injectors if the purge valve is closed and there is fuel
pressure, hence the need for the valve. This is one reason the purge valve
is necessary, since pulling mixture to ICO will possibly not shut down a
running engine as some fuel is still getting through the injectors. Opening the
purge valve is the only way to completely shut all fuel flow off to the
injectors. (Well, you could always shut off the fuel supply from the tanks or
run them
dry...)
On a carbureted engine, pumping the throttle will definately shoot raw gas
into the intake and if the engine is not cranking, this fuel would fall back
into the air box, potentially creating a fire hazard. I never pump the throttle
on my carbureted engine unless it is cranking for this very reason.
Are you currently running your AFP equipped engine? If so, what is your
start procedure, cold & hot?
Mark
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: sniffle valve in RV 7A |
In a message dated 05/08/2008 9:01:55 PM Central Daylight Time,
yenduc(at)sbcglobal.net writes:
Or more
properly does not seal well under suction ( I can detect a slight leak
when I check it by blowing backwards on it).
>>>
I performed the same test on the valve I received in Vans FWF kit and it did
the same as you describe. Concerned about this, I contacted tech support and
was informed this was normal and the tiny amount of leakage would have no
discernable effect. Consider the total amount of air consumed by the engine
against the amount of air leaking past the valve. The engine (Aerosport IO-360)
performed quite nicely with this valve installed both while engine running and
while draining...
Mark
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Aviation Emissions |
>From AvWeb on the internet Thursday:
Congress Scrutinizes Aviation Emissions
The House Subcommittee on Aviation met on Tuesday for a hearing about
aviation's impact on the environment. Noise and emissions from aviation are
expected to double by 2025, the panel said, so aggressive action is needed
soon to prevent that scenario. Gerald Dillingham, speaking for the U.S.
Government Accountability Office, told the panel that NextGen developments
will improve efficiency, but more funding is needed for research into better
technology. National Air Transportation Association (NATA) President James
Coyne also testified at the hearing. NetJets, a member of NATA, is investing
in the development of an ultra-low-emissions jet fuel, Coyne said. Several
representatives of the airline industry noted that given the cost of fuel,
the industry is doing all it can to improve efficiency.
Mary Ann Schaffer, of the Air Line Pilots Association, said pilots conserve
fuel by various strategies, including single-engine taxiing, continuous
descent arrivals, and flying at optimal altitudes and speeds.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This kind of stuff is going on EVERY day folks, if you are not concerned
then you're not paying attention. Environmentalists and politicians would
like to control every aspect of your life. Remember, private flying is just
a frivolous and wasteful pursuit and it will be stopped(whether through
moratoriums on fossil fuel burning to stop global warming, ultra-high gas
prices or control freak politicians who need the environmentalist money and
vote). If we the sane continue turn a blind eye to this we just as well cut
up our airplanes for scrap metal. Politicians who had been braying about
getting us independence from foreign oil were whining to OPEC last week to
get production up to lower prices. US oil production has fallen by half in
the last 20 years and the politicians have done nothing but put up more
roadblocks to increasing domestic production. If you think they really want
to help lower prices then you are naive.
Dean
N197DM
Will fly if I have to distill the hydrocarbons myself
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | sniffle valve in RV 7A |
| From: | James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com> |
Hi Mark,
I am "running" a IO-360 and I chose to not install a sniffle
valve. My first start shoud be in a few weeks. So the proceedure used
will be adapted for the purge valve style operation. I have about 5 or 6
things to finish up and then get it blessed with paper work. Then I
should be ready to go fly :-)))
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | For Sale - RMI uMonitor - NEW - All Probes and Upgrades! |
Dear Listers,
I am selling a new, never used, fully assembled RMI uMonitor with all the probes
for a 4-cylinder engine including Fuel Flow, 4ea EGT, 4ea CGT, Carb Temp, and
Manifold pressure. The uMonitor just had all of the latest hardware and software
updates factory installed including the new high contrast LCD display supporting
Fahrenheit temp readings AND the new LED fiberoptic backlight. Also
included is the Aircraft Extras RM-1B plugin harness extender for the uMonitor
which greatly simplifies the wiring installation.
The uMonitor is in new condition with no scratches and all installation material
and manuals. The pictures below are of the actual unit for sale. The table
below lists all of the items included.
I have nearly $2800 invested in this complete system. I will sell it for $2200
plus shipping to anywhere in the world. I can accept Visa/MC. First come, first
served.
Please email me off list at dralle(at)matronics.com if you are interested.
Matt Dralle
List Admin / RV-4 Builder
1ea RMI microMONITOR Assembled . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1299.00 $1299.00
1ea Factory Upgrade of LCD (Fahrenheit Temp Display),
Fiberoptic LED Backlight, Latest Firmware. . . . . .$ 399.00 $ 399.00
1ea Manifold Pressure Sensor 10.0 to 59.0 InHg. . . . . . $ 68.00 $ 68.00
2ea EGT/CHT Multiplex Switch 2 to 6 cylinders . . . . . . $ 60.00 $ 120.00
1ea Fuel Flow sensor, FloScan 201B-6 - .6 to 60.0 GPH. . .$ 230.00 $ 230.00
1ea Carb Temp Sensor . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 55.00 $ 55.00
4ea EGT Thermocouple - tubing clamp type . . . . . . . . .$ 65.00 $ 260.00
4ea CHT Thermocouple - bayonet type. . . . . . . . . . . .$ 50.00 $ 200.00
1ea RM-1B Harness Expander, Aircraft Extras. . . . . . . .$ 155.00 $ 155.00
--------------------------
$2786.00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | For Sale - Skyforce Skymap IIIC - NEW - Latest Database |
Dear Listers,
I have a new-in-box Skyforce Skymap IIIC full color GPS moving map with Topo.
The database and firmware were just upgraded 05/2008. Includes a Panel Mounting
bracket, GPS Antenna, cigarette lighter adapter, carrying case, and all manuals.
Brand new, never used. No scratches. The pictures below are of the actual
unit. The LCD color display on the IIIC is extremely nice and very bright.
Gives altitude readout. RS232 output.
I have over $2500 invested in this complete system. I will sell it for $2200 plus
shipping to anywhere in the world. I can accept Visa/MC. First come, first
served.
Please email me off list at dralle(at)matronics.com if you are interested.
Matt Dralle
List Admin / RV-4 Builder
1ea - Skyforce Skymap IIIC w/ GPS and Americas Database. . .$2367.00 . .$2367.00
1ea - Panel Mount. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 98.00 . .$ 98.00
1ea - Firmware and Database Update 5/8/2008. . . . . . . . .$ 50.00 . .$ 50.00
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $2515.00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Meyette" <bmeyette(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | crooks at Performance Engines |
I maintain a list on my web site describing my experiences with various
vendors. The vast majority have been super to deal with, but here have
been
some with poor customer service. Fortunately, none has outright ripped
me
off, as described by Larry James; the few negatives are mostly just poor
customer service & bad attitudes. It isn=92t an all-encompassing list;
just
my own experiences with the vendors I have dealt with in building my
plane.
Brian
HYPERLINK
"http://brian76.mystarband.net/vendors.htm"http://brian76.mystarband.net/
ven
dors.htm
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Fogarty at
Lakes & Leisure Realty
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines
We need a list on this site of preferred vendors and vendors we should
not
deal with and that list should be on the search page for all RV's. I'm
wondering if this is possible? We work hard everyday in the shop and
at
our day job, and we certainly should know who the crooks are! Just my
two
cents.
Jim
RV9a N492RV (building)
----- Original Message -----
From: HYPERLINK "mailto:khorton01(at)rogers.com"Kevin Horton
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines
On 30 Apr 2008, at 17:34, Larry James wrote:
Well, it's time I go public. Ron Munson / Performance Engines has owed
me
and promised to pay me back my $20,000 deposit for over two years now. I
read Matt Throckmorton's account of his dealings with Mike Moore and
mine is
a very similar story. Bottom line here, no matter how you slice it Ron
Munson is a liar and a cheat and should be in jail; let alone receive
any
orders from any of us or anyone else. His "salesman" Stuart Featherstone
falls into the same category. I've tried being nice talking with him,
I've
had an attorney send nice letters, I've had an attorney send threatening
letters, I've had a collections agency work to get my money back. So
far, no
joy. Apparently Ron Munson has moved his banking to Nevada while
maintaining operations in California; making it more difficult and
expensive
to go after him. Anyone with any ideas on what to do with this crook ??
I
have no intention of letting this go :-).
_________________
Well, at this stage, maybe the best bet is to attempt to get enough web
coverage of your problems that he starts to realize that not resolving
this
will cost him a bunch of business. One approach would be to create a
web
page that gave your side of the story. Post a link here. Post a link
on
the VAF WWW forum. If enough other people link to your web page, that
will
start to increase the Google ranking of your page. Eventually it could
start to appear close enough to the top of a search for Performance
Engines
that prospective customers start to see it. Try to get the attention of
AvWeb, and the Aero News Network. Contact the Better Business Bureau.
They probably can't do much, but they will put an entry in their
searchable
database saying that there are unresolved customer complaints. That
will
deter some other potential customers. Go to OSH, with a whole stack of
flyers telling your story, and post them all over the site. Keep this
up
long enough and eventually they may see an affect on their business.
--
Kevin Horton
RV-8 (FInal Assembly)
Ottawa, Canada
HYPERLINK "http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8"http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.
com/N
avigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_____
4/29/2008 6:27 PM
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"http://www.matronics.com/Navi
gat
or?RV-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
7.5.524 /
Checked by AVG.
5/8/2008
5:24 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: sniffle valve in RV 7A |
| From: | "Don" <airflow2(at)bellsouth.net> |
[quote="yenduc(at)sbcglobal.net"]The sniffle valve I got from Superior with my
engine sucks. Or more
properly does not seal well under suction ( I can detect a slight leak
when I check it by blowing backwards on it). I believe Dan Checkoway
told me he replaced his with a better one but I lost my notes. Anyone
have a sniffle valve source?
Thanks
dave
We make manifold drains (sniffel valves). You can attach a #4 hose to this part
to route the fuel away from the exhaust and out the cowling. In a tight installation
where the part cannot hang straight down, you can install a 90 degree
pipe fitting to the sump and run a hose back to the manifold drain. As long
as the little check ball can fall open when the engine is off it will work.
The P/N is 1090138 $17.00.
Don at Airflow Performance.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182269#182269
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | For Sale - RMI uEncoder - NEW - Assembled |
Dear Listers,
I am selling a new, never used, fully assembled RMI uEncoder. The uEncoder just
had all of the latest hardware and software updates factory installed including
the new high contrast LCD display supporting Fahrenheit temp readings AND
the new LED fiberoptic backlight. The uEncoder displays airspeed, altitude, fpm,
OAT, and outputs Mode C data for most transponders.
The uEncoder is in new condition with no scratches and all installation material
and manuals. The pictures below are of the actual unit for sale. The table
below lists all of the items included.
I have nearly $1500 invested in this complete system. I will sell it for $1100
plus shipping to anywhere in the world. I can accept Visa/MC. First come, first
served.
Please email me off list at dralle(at)matronics.com if you are interested.
Matt Dralle
List Admin / RV-4 Builder
1ea - RMI microENCODER ASSEMBLED . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1179.00 . $1179.00
1ea - RMI Factory Upgrade of LCD (Fahrenheit Temp, US Miles),
. . . . . . Fiberoptic LED Backlight, Latest Firmware . . . . . $ 315.00 . $ 315.00
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1494.00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Garey Wittich <gareywittich2000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Settting the correct Spacing (Gap) between VS Top Rib and Rudder |
Top Rib
Greetings:
The construction of my RV8A (RV7 and RV9 are the
same) the Rudders Top Rib swings OVER the top Rib of
the VS. There is suppose to be a "Gap" between the
two Ribs so that there is no interference (rubbing of
them together) as the Rudder is moved.
My question is - how do you set this Gap up ???
It seems to me that the Rod End Bearings on the Rudder
Spar need to be screwed into the Rudder Spar the "
Final" distance so that the Gap can be set up properly
BEFORE the Rudder Skin is finally riveted to the
Rudders Top Rib (R703) which sets this Gap. My
understanding the dimensions for screwing the Rod End
Bearings as shown on the Drawing 7 is only
"approximate" and needs to be fined tuned later = this
could change this Gap distance.
Or if one marks a center-line on the flange of the
Rudders Top Rib and aligns the pre-punched holes in
the Rudder Skin directly over the "center of this
line", does it Guarantee automatic clearance and a
constant Gap distance when the Rod End bearings are
set to their "Final" screwed-in distance ??????
The Orndorff Tapes show the Rod End bearings installed
in the Rudder Spar (no Rod End Bearing dimensions
given) and mounted to the VS and the Gap set by
bending Up the Rudders Top Rib (R703) to parallel the
VS Top Rib. Maybe I am missing something. So what
worked for you - set the Rod End Bearings "approx" or
align the pre-punched holes in the Rudder Skin
directly over the marked center-line on the Rudders
Top Rib flange and THEN rivet the Rudder Skin ????
Once the Rudder Skin is riveted to the Rudders Top
Rib, the Rudders Top Rib is fixed and can NOT be
readjusted to get the "correct Gap" later.
Appreciate your help, Garey Wittich
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty" <jfogarty(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Re: crooks at Performance Engines |
Brian, Thanks for this information, I have been on your site many times
over the last 3 years and appreciate what you have done to help me and
other builders in this process. I still use the information you sent
three years ago, regarding my question on how much we should torque down
nuts and bolts. At one time, on your website, you had a parity
regarding the government and ordering food from a fast food restaurant
and how the person taking your order was reviewing your health history
online, prior to letting you order. :-) I also enjoyed reading your
hangar building process and dealing with all the bureaucrats who get
their check on Friday and could careless if you ever get your building
constructed. Thanks for making me smile. Keep working on your RV7 and
I will continue to work on my RV9. If and when I order my motor and
bigger items I will be checking your site for recommend vendors.
Thanks.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Meyette
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 1:02 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines
I maintain a list on my web site describing my experiences with
various vendors. The vast majority have been super to deal with, but
here have been some with poor customer service. Fortunately, none has
outright ripped me off, as described by Larry James; the few negatives
are mostly just poor customer service & bad attitudes. It isn=92t an
all-encompassing list; just my own experiences with the vendors I have
dealt with in building my plane.
Brian
http://brian76.mystarband.net/vendors.htm
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Fogarty at
Lakes & Leisure Realty
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 11:38 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines
We need a list on this site of preferred vendors and vendors we should
not deal with and that list should be on the search page for all RV's.
I'm wondering if this is possible? We work hard everyday in the shop
and at our day job, and we certainly should know who the crooks are!
Just my two cents.
Jim
RV9a N492RV (building)
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Horton
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines
On 30 Apr 2008, at 17:34, Larry James wrote:
Well, it's time I go public. Ron Munson / Performance Engines has
owed me and promised to pay me back my $20,000 deposit for over two
years now. I read Matt Throckmorton's account of his dealings with Mike
Moore and mine is a very similar story. Bottom line here, no matter how
you slice it Ron Munson is a liar and a cheat and should be in jail; let
alone receive any orders from any of us or anyone else. His "salesman"
Stuart Featherstone falls into the same category. I've tried being nice
talking with him, I've had an attorney send nice letters, I've had an
attorney send threatening letters, I've had a collections agency work to
get my money back. So far, no joy. Apparently Ron Munson has moved his
banking to Nevada while maintaining operations in California; making it
more difficult and expensive to go after him. Anyone with any ideas on
what to do with this crook ?? I have no intention of letting this go J.
_________________
Well, at this stage, maybe the best bet is to attempt to get enough
web coverage of your problems that he starts to realize that not
resolving this will cost him a bunch of business. One approach would be
to create a web page that gave your side of the story. Post a link
here. Post a link on the VAF WWW forum. If enough other people link to
your web page, that will start to increase the Google ranking of your
page. Eventually it could start to appear close enough to the top of a
search for Performance Engines that prospective customers start to see
it. Try to get the attention of AvWeb, and the Aero News Network.
Contact the Better Business Bureau. They probably can't do much, but
they will put an entry in their searchable database saying that there
are unresolved customer complaints. That will deter some other
potential customers. Go to OSH, with a whole stack of flyers telling
your story, and post them all over the site. Keep this up long enough
and eventually they may see an affect on their business.
--
Kevin Horton
RV-8 (FInal Assembly)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?RV-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.m
atronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.mat
ronics.com/c
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
4/29/2008 6:27 PM
http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG. Release Date:
4/30/2008 6:10 PM
Checked by AVG.
5/8/2008 5:24 PM
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG.
5/9/2008 12:38 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | crooks at Performance Engines |
Brian,
Thanks for the link to your site. I'd like to put in a good word for Rocky Mountain
Instruments. I purchased both their Micro Encoder and Micro Monitor products
used, from other RV owners (they upgraded). My Micro Monitor was missing
several buttons. I also wanted to add the fuel totalizer feature.
I called RMI, he sold me the fuel flow transducer at a price $80 lower than the
next lowest competitor. I explained that I had purchased the products used.
He asked for the serial numbers and my info. He likes to keep track of where is
products are. He also sent me a complete set of buttons for the Micro Monitor
for free (even the shipping).
My MicroEncoder has a minor scratch on it's display face. I was able to purchase
a replacement display for $24.95! Can you imagine what Garmin would charge
for a damaged display?? $$$$$$ Mr. Mower answered tons of questions regarding
his products, was very polite and shipped my items immediately. I highly recommend
RMI.
Charlie Kuss
--- On Fri, 5/9/08, Brian Meyette wrote:
> From: Brian Meyette <bmeyette(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Friday, May 9, 2008, 2:02 PM
> I maintain a list on my web site describing my experiences
> with various
> vendors. The vast majority have been super to deal with,
> but here have been
> some with poor customer service. Fortunately, none has
> outright ripped me
> off, as described by Larry James; the few negatives are
> mostly just poor
> customer service & bad attitudes. It isnt an
> all-encompassing list; just
> my own experiences with the vendors I have dealt with in
> building my plane.
>
> Brian
>
> HYPERLINK
> "http://brian76.mystarband.net/vendors.htm"http://brian76.mystarband.net/ven
> dors.htm
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Jim Fogarty at
> Lakes & Leisure Realty
> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 11:38 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines
>
>
>
> We need a list on this site of preferred vendors and
> vendors we should not
> deal with and that list should be on the search page for
> all RV's. I'm
> wondering if this is possible? We work hard everyday in
> the shop and at
> our day job, and we certainly should know who the crooks
> are! Just my two
> cents.
>
>
>
> Jim
>
> RV9a N492RV (building)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: HYPERLINK
> "mailto:khorton01(at)rogers.com"Kevin Horton
>
> To: HYPERLINK
> "mailto:rv-list(at)matronics.com"rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:37 PM
>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines
>
>
>
> On 30 Apr 2008, at 17:34, Larry James wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Well, it's time I go public. Ron Munson / Performance
> Engines has owed me
> and promised to pay me back my $20,000 deposit for over two
> years now. I
> read Matt Throckmorton's account of his dealings with
> Mike Moore and mine is
> a very similar story. Bottom line here, no matter how you
> slice it Ron
> Munson is a liar and a cheat and should be in jail; let
> alone receive any
> orders from any of us or anyone else. His
> "salesman" Stuart Featherstone
> falls into the same category. I've tried being nice
> talking with him, I've
> had an attorney send nice letters, I've had an attorney
> send threatening
> letters, I've had a collections agency work to get my
> money back. So far, no
> joy. Apparently Ron Munson has moved his banking to Nevada
> while
> maintaining operations in California; making it more
> difficult and expensive
> to go after him. Anyone with any ideas on what to do with
> this crook ?? I
> have no intention of letting this go :-).
> _________________
>
>
>
> Well, at this stage, maybe the best bet is to attempt to
> get enough web
> coverage of your problems that he starts to realize that
> not resolving this
> will cost him a bunch of business. One approach would be
> to create a web
> page that gave your side of the story. Post a link here.
> Post a link on
> the VAF WWW forum. If enough other people link to your web
> page, that will
> start to increase the Google ranking of your page.
> Eventually it could
> start to appear close enough to the top of a search for
> Performance Engines
> that prospective customers start to see it. Try to get the
> attention of
> AvWeb, and the Aero News Network. Contact the Better
> Business Bureau.
> They probably can't do much, but they will put an entry
> in their searchable
> database saying that there are unresolved customer
> complaints. That will
> deter some other potential customers. Go to OSH, with a
> whole stack of
> flyers telling your story, and post them all over the site.
> Keep this up
> long enough and eventually they may see an affect on their
> business.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Kevin Horton
>
> RV-8 (FInal Assembly)
>
> Ottawa, Canada
>
> HYPERLINK
> "http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8"http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N
> avigator?RV-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
> _____
>
>
> 4/29/2008 6:27 PM
>
>
>
> "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"http://www.matronics.com/Navigat
> or?RV-List
> "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
> "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> 7.5.524 /
>
> Checked by AVG.
> 5/8/2008
> 5:24 PM
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty" <jfogarty(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Settting the correct Spacing (Gap) between VS Top Rib and |
Rudder Top Rib
Garey, I would not do any bending, the bearings goes into platenuts that
you have installed on the forward side of the aft rudder spar, only use the
original computer punched holes in all rib, skin and spar. The lower
bearing in my RV9 has a longer shaft than the upper two bearing on the
rudder. Set the distance on each bearing, per the plans, by using a scrap
piece of aluminum for a jag between the rudder aft spar and the bolt hole in
the bearing. If you have your fuselage done, then install the HS, VS and
then attach your rudder. I did not do this until I had my fuselage and then
I did my install and the gap came out just fine. I'm not sure I'm answering
your question, but I hope this helps. Think platenut....
Jim
RV9a
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garey Wittich" <gareywittich2000(at)yahoo.com>
;
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 11:24 PM
Subject: RV-List: Settting the correct Spacing (Gap) between VS Top Rib and
Rudder Top Rib
>
> Greetings:
>
> The construction of my RV8A (RV7 and RV9 are the
> same) the Rudders Top Rib swings OVER the top Rib of
> the VS. There is suppose to be a "Gap" between the
> two Ribs so that there is no interference (rubbing of
> them together) as the Rudder is moved.
>
> My question is - how do you set this Gap up ???
>
> It seems to me that the Rod End Bearings on the Rudder
> Spar need to be screwed into the Rudder Spar the "
> Final" distance so that the Gap can be set up properly
> BEFORE the Rudder Skin is finally riveted to the
> Rudders Top Rib (R703) which sets this Gap. My
> understanding the dimensions for screwing the Rod End
> Bearings as shown on the Drawing 7 is only
> "approximate" and needs to be fined tuned later = this
> could change this Gap distance.
>
> Or if one marks a center-line on the flange of the
> Rudders Top Rib and aligns the pre-punched holes in
> the Rudder Skin directly over the "center of this
> line", does it Guarantee automatic clearance and a
> constant Gap distance when the Rod End bearings are
> set to their "Final" screwed-in distance ??????
>
> The Orndorff Tapes show the Rod End bearings installed
> in the Rudder Spar (no Rod End Bearing dimensions
> given) and mounted to the VS and the Gap set by
> bending Up the Rudders Top Rib (R703) to parallel the
> VS Top Rib. Maybe I am missing something. So what
> worked for you - set the Rod End Bearings "approx" or
> align the pre-punched holes in the Rudder Skin
> directly over the marked center-line on the Rudders
> Top Rib flange and THEN rivet the Rudder Skin ????
>
> Once the Rudder Skin is riveted to the Rudders Top
> Rib, the Rudders Top Rib is fixed and can NOT be
> readjusted to get the "correct Gap" later.
>
> Appreciate your help, Garey Wittich
>
>
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG.
> 12:38 PM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: sniffle valve in RV 7A |
I purchased a new IO-360 from Aerosport. It had provisions for a sniffle va
lve, so I installed it. Pretty much a no-brainer installation, although I h
aven't reached the first engine start page yet.
Am I missing something? What's the downside of having a sniffle valve?
My plane will be based at Inyokern in the middle of the Mojave Desert. Summ
er heat will be an issue. Seemed to me, anything that helped prevent vapor
lock problems was ok.
Paul Valovich
RV-8A N192NM LuJaRo
Wiring 99% done - canopy is next
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Settting the correct Spacing (Gap) between VS Top |
Rib and Rudder Top Rib
On Fri, 9 May 2008, Garey Wittich wrote:
> --> RV8-List message posted by: Garey Wittich
>
> Greetings:
>
> The construction of my RV8A (RV7 and RV9 are the
> same) the Rudders Top Rib swings OVER the top Rib of
> the VS. There is suppose to be a "Gap" between the
> two Ribs so that there is no interference (rubbing of
> them together) as the Rudder is moved.
>
> My question is - how do you set this Gap up ???
On mine, I had to file the top of the VS down a bit to get the needed
gap. Given the pre-punched holes, there isn't a lot you can play with,
other than changing how far the rod ends are screwed in, move the top ones
a bit further out than the bottom (keeping them in line of course).
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com)
RV-8A 80091 riviting fuse.
1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Meyette" <bmeyette(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | crooks at Performance Engines |
Thank you, Jim, for making ME smile ;-)
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Fogarty at
Lakes & Leisure Realty
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines
Brian, Thanks for this information, I have been on your site many times
over the last 3 years and appreciate what you have done to help me and
other
builders in this process. I still use the information you sent three
years
ago, regarding my question on how much we should torque down nuts and
bolts.
At one time, on your website, you had a parity regarding the government
and
ordering food from a fast food restaurant and how the person taking your
order was reviewing your health history online, prior to letting you
order.
:-) I also enjoyed reading your hangar building process and dealing
with
all the bureaucrats who get their check on Friday and could careless if
you
ever get your building constructed. Thanks for making me smile. Keep
working on your RV7 and I will continue to work on my RV9. If and when
I
order my motor and bigger items I will be checking your site for
recommend
vendors. Thanks.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: HYPERLINK "mailto:bmeyette(at)gmail.com"Brian Meyette
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 1:02 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines
I maintain a list on my web site describing my experiences with various
vendors. The vast majority have been super to deal with, but here have
been
some with poor customer service. Fortunately, none has outright ripped
me
off, as described by Larry James; the few negatives are mostly just poor
customer service & bad attitudes. It isn=92t an all-encompassing list;
just
my own experiences with the vendors I have dealt with in building my
plane.
Brian
HYPERLINK
"http://brian76.mystarband.net/vendors.htm"http://brian76.mystarband.net/
ven
dors.htm
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Fogarty at
Lakes & Leisure Realty
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines
We need a list on this site of preferred vendors and vendors we should
not
deal with and that list should be on the search page for all RV's. I'm
wondering if this is possible? We work hard everyday in the shop and
at
our day job, and we certainly should know who the crooks are! Just my
two
cents.
Jim
RV9a N492RV (building)
----- Original Message -----
From: HYPERLINK "mailto:khorton01(at)rogers.com"Kevin Horton
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines
On 30 Apr 2008, at 17:34, Larry James wrote:
Well, it's time I go public. Ron Munson / Performance Engines has owed
me
and promised to pay me back my $20,000 deposit for over two years now. I
read Matt Throckmorton's account of his dealings with Mike Moore and
mine is
a very similar story. Bottom line here, no matter how you slice it Ron
Munson is a liar and a cheat and should be in jail; let alone receive
any
orders from any of us or anyone else. His "salesman" Stuart Featherstone
falls into the same category. I've tried being nice talking with him,
I've
had an attorney send nice letters, I've had an attorney send threatening
letters, I've had a collections agency work to get my money back. So
far, no
joy. Apparently Ron Munson has moved his banking to Nevada while
maintaining operations in California; making it more difficult and
expensive
to go after him. Anyone with any ideas on what to do with this crook ??
I
have no intention of letting this go :-).
_________________
Well, at this stage, maybe the best bet is to attempt to get enough web
coverage of your problems that he starts to realize that not resolving
this
will cost him a bunch of business. One approach would be to create a
web
page that gave your side of the story. Post a link here. Post a link
on
the VAF WWW forum. If enough other people link to your web page, that
will
start to increase the Google ranking of your page. Eventually it could
start to appear close enough to the top of a search for Performance
Engines
that prospective customers start to see it. Try to get the attention of
AvWeb, and the Aero News Network. Contact the Better Business Bureau.
They probably can't do much, but they will put an entry in their
searchable
database saying that there are unresolved customer complaints. That
will
deter some other potential customers. Go to OSH, with a whole stack of
flyers telling your story, and post them all over the site. Keep this
up
long enough and eventually they may see an affect on their business.
--
Kevin Horton
RV-8 (FInal Assembly)
Ottawa, Canada
HYPERLINK "http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8"http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.
com/N
avigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_____
4/29/2008 6:27 PM
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Checked by AVG. Release Date: 4/30/2008 6:10 PM
Checked by AVG.
5/8/2008 5:24 PM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.
com/N
avigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_____
5/9/2008 12:38 PM
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"http://www.matronics.com/Navi
gat
or?RV-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
7.5.524 /
Checked by AVG.
5/9/2008
12:38 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: sniffle valve in RV 7A |
In a message dated 05/10/2008 10:52:54 AM Central Daylight Time,
pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com writes:
Seemed to me, anything that helped prevent vapor lock problems was ok.
I really don't believe the sniffle valve has anything to do with vapor lock-
it is only to allow raw fuel that can accumulate in the intake manifold
between the fuel servo and the intake tubes to drain. By design in an injected
engine, there SHOULD be no fuel in this area- fuel should only enter the intake
airstream at the injector and pass immediately to the cylinder. In the AFP
system I am familiar with, if the fuel system is pressurized by the boost pump
and
the engine is not cranking, some fuel will discharge from the injector
nozzles and run down the intake tubes into the manifold. This is the reason for
the
sniffle valve- to allow this fuel to drain from this area where it is not
meant to be. Is it "bad" to have some fuel pooling here? I don't know, but I
doubt normal engine running airflow would cause much to be ingested into the
engine. It would likely remove itself after "some" period of time by simple
evaporation into the airstream.
Some might look at the sniffle valve as a band-aid for less-than-ideal
understanding & operation of the injection system, but in my experience if you
leave
the boost pump running for more than 5 or 10 seconds when the engine is not
running or cranking (purge valve closed) there WILL be fuel running out the
sniffle valve and deposited wherever gravity dictates.
The AFP system is an excellent fuel delivery system in wide use, but just
like that stick poking up between your legs, if not used as it was intended to
be
used, it can cause you some measure of grief.
It appears Don checks this list occasionally, so if I am in error, PLEASE
correct & elaborate.
Mark
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Current crop of pitot tubes |
Another EIFS which hasn't gotten much attention is the MGL
Enigma/Odyssey. It appears that it can be set up to derive AOA from
either drilled wing ports or a 2 hole pitot/AOA probe like Dynon's.
http://www.mglavionics.com/html/odyssey.html
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
Kevin Horton wrote:
> You need to match the pressure source (i.e. the holes, either on the
> pitot tube, or the wing) to the sensor. So, if you want the Dynon
> pitot, then you need to use their EFIS to calculate the AOA. If you
> want the AOA Sport system, you need to put the holes where they tell
> you to.
>
> This is not a plug and play system, where you can mix and match
> pressure source and sensor, as there are no agreed upon standards for
> the pressure source.
>
> Kevin Horton
>
> On 25 Apr 2008, at 18:23, Corey Crawford wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know if the Dynon pitot with angle-of-attack would
>> connect to/work with an AOA Sport? I'd love to avoid drilling any
>> holes in my QB wings ..
>>
>> --
>> Corey Crawford
>> RV-7A - Denver, CO
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 10:57 AM, William Gill > > wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> The chrome Gretz mount with the Dynon heated pitot or Dynon's heated
>> pitot with angle-of-attack looks very nice...and works great.
>>
>> Bill
>> RV-7
>>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Meyette" <bmeyette(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | off-topic question about AC electric motors |
This has nothing to do with RVs, but I know there are a lot of very
knowledgeable people out there and someone might know.
The short question is - what will happen if you plug a 230v motor into
115vac? Will it still run, albeit weakly?
If you're interested, this is the long version - I bought an air compressor
that the seller said had a motor problem. Rather than just replace the
motor, I tested it out, because sometimes you can actually buy things that
are not as bad as expected, and just need a simple fix.
The compressor came with a standard 15a, 115v 3-prong plug on it. So, I
disconnected the belt driving the compressor and tested the motor by
plugging it in. It ran fine. So, I connected the belt and let it try to
drive the compressor. It starts and runs ok, but then runs out of steam and
starts to slow down. Then the start circuit kicks in and it picks up speed
again, then slows down again.
So, I figured the motor was indeed bad & I'd have to replace it. But, after
looking at the motor data plate to see what to order, it clearly says it is
a 5 HP GE 230 volt only (not 115/230) motor. The whole thing is well used,
so someone in its past must have been using it successfully. Perhaps the
previous owner (or one before that) either had a 230v circuit with a 115v
outlet on it (REALLY bad idea) or perhaps the guy I bought it from got it
without a plug on the end, assumed it was 115v and put the 115v plug on it &
then saw it didn't work, so he sold it.
So, I am planning to put a 230v plug on it and try it in a 230v circuit. I
guess I dont have anything to lose if somehow it is really 115 and I put
230 to it & burn it up , as I would otherwise have to replace the motor
anyway, because it is too weak at 115v. I just wondered if it was feasible
that it really is a 230v motor and all it needs is a 230v supply.
What do you guys think - will a 230v motor run, but weakly, on 115v?
Thanks,
brian
Checked by AVG.
1:08 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FW: RV6a step kit |
| From: | "ROBERTS, DENIS" <denis.roberts(at)wachoviasec.com> |
> ______________________________________________
> From: ROBERTS, DENIS
> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 12:56 PM
> To: ROBERTS, DENIS
> Subject: FW: RV6a step kit
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> From: ROBERTS, DENIS
> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 12:46 PM
> To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: RV6a step kit
>
> I was lucky to purchase a beautiful RV6a. The builder did a fantasti
c
> build, but
> did not add steps. I thought of buying a step kit, but wanted some
> input to
> the installation and whether or not the steps would decrease speed t
o
> any extent.
> Any suggestions would be appreciated
> Thanks,
> Denis
>
> Denis Roberts
> Senior Investment Broker
> A.G. Edwards & Sons, Inc.
> Omaha, NE
> 402-496-9700 / 800-944-2609
denis.roberts(at)wachoviasec.com
Wachovia Securities, LLC's outgoing and incoming e-mails are electroni
cally
archived and subject to review and/or disclosure to someone other
than the recipient.
A.G. Edwards, a division of Wachovia Securities, LLC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: RV6a step kit |
FW: RV6a step kitIt is a GREAT addition. I had to drill out the pilot
side rivets in the baggage
area floor then cut the apprpriate hole in the fuselage side. I had a
builder
help with the riveting.
Any speed decrease...if measurable...is worth it.
I would strengthen the area between the flat plate and the downward
portion of
the step before installation
Ron Lee
----- Original Message -----
From: ROBERTS, DENIS
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 12:43 PM
Subject: RV-List: FW: RV6a step kit
______________________________________________
From: ROBERTS, DENIS
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 12:56 PM
To: ROBERTS, DENIS
Subject: FW: RV6a step kit
______________________________________________
From: ROBERTS, DENIS
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 12:46 PM
To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
Subject: RV6a step kit
I was lucky to purchase a beautiful RV6a. The builder did a fantastic
build, but
did not add steps. I thought of buying a step kit, but wanted some
input to
the installation and whether or not the steps would decrease speed to
any extent.
Any suggestions would be appreciated
Thanks,
Denis
Denis Roberts
Senior Investment Broker
A.G. Edwards & Sons, Inc.
Omaha, NE
402-496-9700 / 800-944-2609
denis.roberts(at)wachoviasec.com
Wachovia Securities, LLC's outgoing and incoming e-mails are
electronically
archived and subject to review and/or disclosure to someone other
than the recipient.
A.G. Edwards, a division of Wachovia Securities, LLC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Leonard" <wdleonard(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: off-topic question about AC electric motors |
I would look more into it before plugging it into 220. My compressor,
usually meant to run on 110, will often bog down and not run well if the 110
supply is weak (like in many hangars where the electrical system is cobbled
together). Or if I ever tried to run it through a long extension cord, it
would bog down.
In other words, ask the manufacturer about your specific model. They may
have modified the motor, or installed a step down transformer or resistors.
Running a 220 motor on 110 could cause issues just like what you describe,
but can also cause a high-current situation when it boggs down.
Dave Leonard
2008/5/12 Brian Meyette :
>
> This has nothing to do with RVs, but I know there are a lot of very
> knowledgeable people out there and someone might know.
>
> The short question is - what will happen if you plug a 230v motor into
> 115vac? Will it still run, albeit weakly?
>
> If you're interested, this is the long version - I bought an air
> compressor
> that the seller said had a motor problem. Rather than just replace the
> motor, I tested it out, because sometimes you can actually buy things that
> are not as bad as expected, and just need a simple fix.
>
> The compressor came with a standard 15a, 115v 3-prong plug on it. So, I
> disconnected the belt driving the compressor and tested the motor by
> plugging it in. It ran fine. So, I connected the belt and let it try to
> drive the compressor. It starts and runs ok, but then runs out of steam
> and
> starts to slow down. Then the start circuit kicks in and it picks up
> speed
> again, then slows down again.
>
> So, I figured the motor was indeed bad & I'd have to replace it. But,
> after
> looking at the motor data plate to see what to order, it clearly says it
> is
> a 5 HP GE 230 volt only (not 115/230) motor. The whole thing is well
> used,
> so someone in its past must have been using it successfully. Perhaps the
> previous owner (or one before that) either had a 230v circuit with a 115v
> outlet on it (REALLY bad idea) or perhaps the guy I bought it from got it
> without a plug on the end, assumed it was 115v and put the 115v plug on it
> &
> then saw it didn't work, so he sold it.
>
> So, I am planning to put a 230v plug on it and try it in a 230v circuit.
> I
> guess I don't have anything to lose if somehow it is really 115 and I put
> 230 to it & burn it up , as I would otherwise have to replace the motor
> anyway, because it is too weak at 115v. I just wondered if it was
> feasible
> that it really is a 230v motor and all it needs is a 230v supply.
>
> What do you guys think - will a 230v motor run, but weakly, on 115v?
>
> Thanks,
> brian
>
> Checked by AVG.
> 1:08 PM
>
>
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Nellis <truflite(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: off-topic question about AC electric motors |
Brian,
First, if the name plate says 230 volts, yes, wire up
a 230 volt plug and see what happens.
Second, if the name plate says 115/230 volts, it is a
dual voltage motor. There are connections under the
cover where the electrical power comes in that need to
be changed. The name plate should have the proper
connections to change the voltage. Make these changes
to the voltage you wish to use. The wires should be
numbered with ink or tags.
A quick lesson in electric motors. Dual voltage
motors have two coils either in series or parallel.
Each coil is rated for 115 volts and for simplicity,
let's say each coil draws 5 amps of current. If you
wire for 115 V, then each coil loads to 115 V, but,
since there are two coils, the current drawn is 10
amps. Next is crude diagram.
5A
VVVVVVV
10A / \ 10A
------ --------
\ /
VVVVVVV
5A
VVVVVV= motor coils
XXA= amps through each part of the circuit
For 230V connections, the coils are in series, each
loads to 115V but the current remains 5Amps.
5A 5A 5A 5A
------VVVVVVV----VVVVVV------
The power or wattage consumed is the same between the
two.
115V x 10A = 1150 Watts
230V x 5A = 1150 Watts
Hope this helps and let me know if I can be of more
help.
Dave Nellis
Electrician for 30 years
--- Brian Meyette wrote:
>
>
> This has nothing to do with RVs, but I know there
> are a lot of very
> knowledgeable people out there and someone might
> know.
>
> The short question is - what will happen if you plug
> a 230v motor into
> 115vac? Will it still run, albeit weakly?
>
> If you're interested, this is the long version - I
> bought an air compressor
> that the seller said had a motor problem. Rather
> than just replace the
> motor, I tested it out, because sometimes you can
> actually buy things that
> are not as bad as expected, and just need a simple
> fix.
>
> The compressor came with a standard 15a, 115v
> 3-prong plug on it. So, I
> disconnected the belt driving the compressor and
> tested the motor by
> plugging it in. It ran fine. So, I connected the
> belt and let it try to
> drive the compressor. It starts and runs ok, but
> then runs out of steam and
> starts to slow down. Then the start circuit kicks
> in and it picks up speed
> again, then slows down again.
>
> So, I figured the motor was indeed bad & I'd have to
> replace it. But, after
> looking at the motor data plate to see what to
> order, it clearly says it is
> a 5 HP GE 230 volt only (not 115/230) motor. The
> whole thing is well used,
> so someone in its past must have been using it
> successfully. Perhaps the
> previous owner (or one before that) either had a
> 230v circuit with a 115v
> outlet on it (REALLY bad idea) or perhaps the guy I
> bought it from got it
> without a plug on the end, assumed it was 115v and
> put the 115v plug on it &
> then saw it didn't work, so he sold it.
>
> So, I am planning to put a 230v plug on it and try
> it in a 230v circuit. I
> guess I dont have anything to lose if somehow it is
> really 115 and I put
> 230 to it & burn it up , as I would otherwise have
> to replace the motor
> anyway, because it is too weak at 115v. I just
> wondered if it was feasible
> that it really is a 230v motor and all it needs is a
> 230v supply.
>
> What do you guys think - will a 230v motor run, but
> weakly, on 115v?
>
> Thanks,
> brian
>
> Checked by AVG.
> 1:08 PM
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Un/Subscription,
> FAQ,
>
> Forums!
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ & Marilyn" <rmkeith(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: off-topic question about AC electric motors |
Brian,
Remove the access cover to the wiring and check to see if the motor is wired
for lo voltage or high voltage. The internal taps may need to be simply
placed on the correct terminal. Check the motor data plate for the correct
tap arrangement.
Russ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Meyette" <bmeyette(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 12:54 PM
Subject: RV-List: off-topic question about AC electric motors
>
> This has nothing to do with RVs, but I know there are a lot of very
> knowledgeable people out there and someone might know.
>
> The short question is - what will happen if you plug a 230v motor into
> 115vac? Will it still run, albeit weakly?
>
> If you're interested, this is the long version - I bought an air
> compressor
> that the seller said had a motor problem. Rather than just replace the
> motor, I tested it out, because sometimes you can actually buy things that
> are not as bad as expected, and just need a simple fix.
>
> The compressor came with a standard 15a, 115v 3-prong plug on it. So, I
> disconnected the belt driving the compressor and tested the motor by
> plugging it in. It ran fine. So, I connected the belt and let it try to
> drive the compressor. It starts and runs ok, but then runs out of steam
> and
> starts to slow down. Then the start circuit kicks in and it picks up
> speed
> again, then slows down again.
>
> So, I figured the motor was indeed bad & I'd have to replace it. But,
> after
> looking at the motor data plate to see what to order, it clearly says it
> is
> a 5 HP GE 230 volt only (not 115/230) motor. The whole thing is well
> used,
> so someone in its past must have been using it successfully. Perhaps the
> previous owner (or one before that) either had a 230v circuit with a 115v
> outlet on it (REALLY bad idea) or perhaps the guy I bought it from got it
> without a plug on the end, assumed it was 115v and put the 115v plug on it
> &
> then saw it didn't work, so he sold it.
>
> So, I am planning to put a 230v plug on it and try it in a 230v circuit.
> I
> guess I dont have anything to lose if somehow it is really 115 and I put
> 230 to it & burn it up , as I would otherwise have to replace the motor
> anyway, because it is too weak at 115v. I just wondered if it was
> feasible
> that it really is a 230v motor and all it needs is a 230v supply.
>
> What do you guys think - will a 230v motor run, but weakly, on 115v?
>
> Thanks,
> brian
>
> Checked by AVG.
> 1:08 PM
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "sheldon barrett" <sheldonb(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: off-topic question about AC electric motors |
If it's indeed a dual voltage motor, the name plate will indicate it...(115
v @ some amperage/230v @ half that amperage)... If the motors name plate
only says 230v. then it's probably a single voltage winding and there won't
be any taps to change.. It will eventually burn up running on low
voltage....
Sheldon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Russ & Marilyn" <rmkeith(at)gwi.net>
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: off-topic question about AC electric motors
>
> Brian,
>
>
> Remove the access cover to the wiring and check to see if the motor is
> wired for lo voltage or high voltage. The internal taps may need to be
> simply placed on the correct terminal. Check the motor data plate for the
> correct tap arrangement.
>
> Russ
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Meyette" <bmeyette(at)gmail.com>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 12:54 PM
> Subject: RV-List: off-topic question about AC electric motors
>
>
>>
>> This has nothing to do with RVs, but I know there are a lot of very
>> knowledgeable people out there and someone might know.
>>
>> The short question is - what will happen if you plug a 230v motor into
>> 115vac? Will it still run, albeit weakly?
>>
>> If you're interested, this is the long version - I bought an air
>> compressor
>> that the seller said had a motor problem. Rather than just replace the
>> motor, I tested it out, because sometimes you can actually buy things
>> that
>> are not as bad as expected, and just need a simple fix.
>>
>> The compressor came with a standard 15a, 115v 3-prong plug on it. So, I
>> disconnected the belt driving the compressor and tested the motor by
>> plugging it in. It ran fine. So, I connected the belt and let it try to
>> drive the compressor. It starts and runs ok, but then runs out of steam
>> and
>> starts to slow down. Then the start circuit kicks in and it picks up
>> speed
>> again, then slows down again.
>>
>> So, I figured the motor was indeed bad & I'd have to replace it. But,
>> after
>> looking at the motor data plate to see what to order, it clearly says it
>> is
>> a 5 HP GE 230 volt only (not 115/230) motor. The whole thing is well
>> used,
>> so someone in its past must have been using it successfully. Perhaps the
>> previous owner (or one before that) either had a 230v circuit with a 115v
>> outlet on it (REALLY bad idea) or perhaps the guy I bought it from got it
>> without a plug on the end, assumed it was 115v and put the 115v plug on
>> it &
>> then saw it didn't work, so he sold it.
>>
>> So, I am planning to put a 230v plug on it and try it in a 230v circuit.
>> I
>> guess I dont have anything to lose if somehow it is really 115 and I put
>> 230 to it & burn it up , as I would otherwise have to replace the motor
>> anyway, because it is too weak at 115v. I just wondered if it was
>> feasible
>> that it really is a 230v motor and all it needs is a 230v supply.
>>
>> What do you guys think - will a 230v motor run, but weakly, on 115v?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> brian
>>
>> Checked by AVG.
>> 1:08 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Meyette" <bmeyette(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | off-topic question about AC electric motors |
Thanks to all for the advice. I tried hooking it to 230v last night and it
ran great. It's definitely a 230v-only motor, and there's nothing wrong
with it. So the motor alone is worth way more than the price I paid for the
whole compressor. Odd that it came with a 115v plug that threw me. the
seller must have bought the compressor somewhere (perhaps an auction),
probably without a plug, installed that 115v plug, thinking it was 115v,
then sold it cuz it didnt work well. I lucked out on that transaction, as
I was expecting to have to buy a new motor for it when I bought it.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of sheldon barrett
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: off-topic question about AC electric motors
If it's indeed a dual voltage motor, the name plate will indicate it...(115
v @ some amperage/230v @ half that amperage)... If the motors name plate
only says 230v. then it's probably a single voltage winding and there won't
be any taps to change.. It will eventually burn up running on low
voltage....
Sheldon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Russ & Marilyn" <rmkeith(at)gwi.net>
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: off-topic question about AC electric motors
>
> Brian,
>
>
> Remove the access cover to the wiring and check to see if the motor is
> wired for lo voltage or high voltage. The internal taps may need to be
> simply placed on the correct terminal. Check the motor data plate for the
> correct tap arrangement.
>
> Russ
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Meyette" <bmeyette(at)gmail.com>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 12:54 PM
> Subject: RV-List: off-topic question about AC electric motors
>
>
>>
>> This has nothing to do with RVs, but I know there are a lot of very
>> knowledgeable people out there and someone might know.
>>
>> The short question is - what will happen if you plug a 230v motor into
>> 115vac? Will it still run, albeit weakly?
>>
>> If you're interested, this is the long version - I bought an air
>> compressor
>> that the seller said had a motor problem. Rather than just replace the
>> motor, I tested it out, because sometimes you can actually buy things
>> that
>> are not as bad as expected, and just need a simple fix.
>>
>> The compressor came with a standard 15a, 115v 3-prong plug on it. So, I
>> disconnected the belt driving the compressor and tested the motor by
>> plugging it in. It ran fine. So, I connected the belt and let it try to
>> drive the compressor. It starts and runs ok, but then runs out of steam
>> and
>> starts to slow down. Then the start circuit kicks in and it picks up
>> speed
>> again, then slows down again.
>>
>> So, I figured the motor was indeed bad & I'd have to replace it. But,
>> after
>> looking at the motor data plate to see what to order, it clearly says it
>> is
>> a 5 HP GE 230 volt only (not 115/230) motor. The whole thing is well
>> used,
>> so someone in its past must have been using it successfully. Perhaps the
>> previous owner (or one before that) either had a 230v circuit with a 115v
>> outlet on it (REALLY bad idea) or perhaps the guy I bought it from got it
>> without a plug on the end, assumed it was 115v and put the 115v plug on
>> it &
>> then saw it didn't work, so he sold it.
>>
>> So, I am planning to put a 230v plug on it and try it in a 230v circuit.
>> I
>> guess I dont have anything to lose if somehow it is really 115 and I put
>> 230 to it & burn it up , as I would otherwise have to replace the motor
>> anyway, because it is too weak at 115v. I just wondered if it was
>> feasible
>> that it really is a 230v motor and all it needs is a 230v supply.
>>
>> What do you guys think - will a 230v motor run, but weakly, on 115v?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> brian
>>
>> Checked by AVG.
>> 1:08 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Checked by AVG.
6:14 PM
Checked by AVG.
6:14 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV9-List: FS: RV9/9A Unassembled Emp Kit + Tools + Primer + Preview |
plans + RV9 Orndorff Videos in Vancouver, BC
| From: | "Brandon Rigio" <brandon.rigio(at)kodak.com> |
After a year and a half and much deliberation I am ready to admit that I
started this project at the wrong time of my life and need to focus my
attention on other things.
I am putting my unassembled RV9 Empennage (VS spar match drilled) with
electric trim option and everything needed to complete the kit up for
sale. This includes all the hand tools needed (itemized list for
available for anyone interested), Sherwin Williams E2G973 primer and
reducer, preview plans if wanted, and the construction videos.
This is everything needed to start assembling your RV9/9A right away.
Not a single rivet pounded on this kit.
I know how much I have invested in this kit and getting geared up to
assemble it but I also recognize that I would be being helped out by the
person willing to purchase it from me; so at this point I would like to
leave it open to offers. The Kit is located in Vancouver, British
Columbia.
Thank you,
Brandon Rigio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck & Deanna Schieffer" <cdschieffer(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Cylinder head temps |
Hi guys,
I have about 33 hours flown off of my 40 hours on my RV-7A at CMA. I
have a Superior O-360 with electronic ignitions and a Hartzell CS prop
with 8.5:1 pistons. I usually use full power to climb to 1000' then go
to 25"/2500 until about 2500' then level off and go to 23:/2350. My
cylinder head temps at 2500' are usually #1 & 2 about 380 to 400 degrees
with #s 3 and 4 about 415 to 420 deg on a 70 deg day. Oil temp usually
stays between 170 and 185. I was hoping during break-in the CHTs would
drop by this time. My oil consumption seems to be about 1/4th of a
quart per hour so I think the majority of my engine break-in is done. I
have sealed all the significant holes in the upper cowl pressure area
and are now considering adding the lower cowl louvers to try to get more
CHT cooling. Any thoughts from you guys who have been down this road.
Thanks,
Chuck Schieffer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cylinder head temps |
Honestly, your temperatures are not bad, and are certainly not a danger
to your engine. But, since you want to improve things, how 'bout a
little more data?
What climb speed are you using? I recommend 120 knots or more unless
you've got an obstacle to clear.
What type CHT probes are you using and where are they mounted (screw-in
probe, spark plug ring , etc)?
Do you have a cylinder blocker on #1?
FYI, my 0-320 powered RV-6 typically has a peak CHT of 400 degrees or so
on #3 cylinder during climb out. Lowering the nose to achieve 120+
knots lowers it. On a hot day, #3 may reach 420 or 425. Before I
installed a cylinder blocker on #1, the temperatures on #3 were 25
degrees higher than they are today.
Kyle Boatright
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck & Deanna Schieffer
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 10:32 PM
Subject: RV-List: Cylinder head temps
Hi guys,
I have about 33 hours flown off of my 40 hours on my RV-7A at CMA. I
have a Superior O-360 with electronic ignitions and a Hartzell CS prop
with 8.5:1 pistons. I usually use full power to climb to 1000' then go
to 25"/2500 until about 2500' then level off and go to 23:/2350. My
cylinder head temps at 2500' are usually #1 & 2 about 380 to 400 degrees
with #s 3 and 4 about 415 to 420 deg on a 70 deg day. Oil temp usually
stays between 170 and 185. I was hoping during break-in the CHTs would
drop by this time. My oil consumption seems to be about 1/4th of a
quart per hour so I think the majority of my engine break-in is done. I
have sealed all the significant holes in the upper cowl pressure area
and are now considering adding the lower cowl louvers to try to get more
CHT cooling. Any thoughts from you guys who have been down this road.
Thanks,
Chuck Schieffer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cylinder head temps |
Chuck,
One thing to think about; when you pull the throttle for your initial
power reduction, you come off the carb's enrichener circuit and it runs
somewhat leaner. This may be contributing to higher CHTs during climb.
What are your EGTs doing when you pull?
It might be better to leave the throttle forward and come back about 100
RPM on the prop, if you want to lower the noise level, for climbout
until you are ready to reduce power for cruise.
That said, the temps do seem a little high for a cool day. Are you sure
of your ignition timing? As has been said, a little higher climbout
speed makes a difference in temps, also.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
Chuck & Deanna Schieffer wrote:
> Hi guys,
> I have about 33 hours flown off of my 40 hours on my RV-7A at CMA. I
> have a Superior O-360 with electronic ignitions and a Hartzell CS prop
> with 8.5:1 pistons. I usually use full power to climb to 1000' then
> go to 25"/2500 until about 2500' then level off and go to 23:/2350.
> My cylinder head temps at 2500' are usually #1 & 2 about 380 to 400
> degrees with #s 3 and 4 about 415 to 420 deg on a 70 deg day. Oil
> temp usually stays between 170 and 185. I was hoping during break-in
> the CHTs would drop by this time. My oil consumption seems to be
> about 1/4th of a quart per hour so I think the majority of my engine
> break-in is done. I have sealed all the significant holes in the
> upper cowl pressure area and are now considering adding the lower cowl
> louvers to try to get more CHT cooling. Any thoughts from you guys
> who have been down this road.
> Thanks,
> Chuck Schieffer
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)newwavecomm.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cylinder head temps |
Here is a dicussion on that subject that is ging on over at VAF:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=29981
I see about the same thing and also have a Superior XP-0360
I installed the lower louvers and they did not seem to help much.
I don't use hardly any oil. I have found that the engine oil level likes to stay
about 6.5 on the dip stick. If there is more it seems to go away until it gets
to 6.5 and then it stays there for a long time.
When I see the CHT's going over 410 I usually level off and pull the throttle back
until it comes back down then continue my climb.
----
Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my flying RV7A web page:
http://home.newwavecomm.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm
Chuck & Deanna Schieffer wrote:
> Hi guys,
> I have about 33 hours flown off of my 40 hours on my RV-7A at CMA. I
> have a Superior O-360 with electronic ignitions and a Hartzell CS prop
> with 8.5:1 pistons. I usually use full power to climb to 1000' then
> go to 25"/2500 until about 2500' then level off and go to 23:/2350.
> My cylinder head temps at 2500' are usually #1 & 2 about 380 to 400
> degrees with #s 3 and 4 about 415 to 420 deg on a 70 deg day. Oil
> temp usually stays between 170 and 185. I was hoping during break-in
> the CHTs would drop by this time. My oil consumption seems to be
> about 1/4th of a quart per hour so I think the majority of my engine
> break-in is done. I have sealed all the significant holes in the
> upper cowl pressure area and are now considering adding the lower cowl
> louvers to try to get more CHT cooling. Any thoughts from you guys
> who have been down this road.
> Thanks,
> Chuck Schieffer
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wesley Robinson" <wesleyt(at)stanfordfurniture.com> |
| Subject: | Fly-In this Saturday at Hickory, NC |
EAA Chapter 731 is holding their Spring Fly-in at Hickory (KHKY) this
Saturday.
There will be an award for best RV!
See their website for more info: http://www.eaa731.org
Wesley T Robinson
RV-9A N224WR 'The Red Baron'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What Is This, Where Can I Get Them? |
What is this piece of AN hardware? It is holding an AN3 fiction bolt
head in place on the back of the Van's throttle quadrants.
Thanks!
Matt Dralle
List Admin / RV-4 Builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dale Ellis <rv8builder(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What Is This, Where Can I Get Them? |
Matt, when you get the answer to this question, please pass it along.
Thanks,
Dale
-----Original Message-----
>From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
>Sent: May 16, 2008 12:11 AM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: What Is This, Where Can I Get Them?
>
>
>What is this piece of AN hardware? It is holding an AN3 fiction bolt
>head in place on the back of the Van's throttle quadrants.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Matt Dralle
>List Admin / RV-4 Builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What Is This, Where Can I Get Them? |
| From: | "tsts4" <tsts4(at)verizon.net> |
Matt,
I believe that is a 2 lug hex head retainer (think reverse nut plate). Check out
this link:
http://www.spstech.com/aero/fastenerfinder/browse.jsp?category=PLATENUTS[/code]
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183453#183453
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob <robbax(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | RV8 project for sale |
RV8 #970 tail and wings complete and inspected (Canada) prior to closure.
Excellent workmanship mentored by OSH workmanship award winner. Many reasons
for selling, all of them sad but ...my loss , your gain . $10K US includes
all tools and builders logbook/plans (avery, Cleveland dies, cp straight and
angle drills, cp pneumatic squeezer and a lot of extras)
Items crated and ready to ship. Located in Edmonton Alberta
Robert Baxter
robbax(at)shaw.ca
robert.baxter(at)shell.com
780-464-1719
Mobile 780-901-9959
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Reginald C. Smith, Sr." <smirdrv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Interior Wing Primer |
Listers,
I am in the process of finishing my wings, and found out that my Wash
Primer has expired. Just wondering what you'd suggest as an alternative Pri
mer for the interior of the Wing. A/C Spruce has Prekote Surface Pretreatme
nt PN: 09-00826 (Gal.) that sounds like it might work. I'm open for sugges
tions. Thanks.
_________________________________________________________________
E-mail for the greater good. Join the i=92m Initiative from Microsoft.
ood
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net> |
I have to replace batty, rg25xc now near $200. Ive been told that 300
amp cold cranking lawntractor batty would serve just as well. Im not
sure, anybody here have experience or knowledge about this? Charlie
Heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery problem |
have you checked the Odyssey batteries?
PC925 is probably a similar capacity
Ron Lee
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Heathco
To: rv-list
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 8:43 AM
Subject: RV-List: Battery problem
I have to replace batty, rg25xc now near $200. Ive been told that 300
amp cold cranking lawntractor batty would serve just as well. Im not
sure, anybody here have experience or knowledge about this? Charlie
Heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery problem |
I used several of those in the past, with mixed results. Past six or
so years I have gone with Odyssey with universal good results. Vans
calls them out now for RVs. Can be had for 100, if you shop around.
just screw some wood spacers in the battery box. Have use both 680 and
625
Works for me.
On May 19, 2008, at 8:43 , Charles Heathco wrote:
> I have to replace batty, rg25xc now near $200. Ive been told that
> 300 amp cold cranking lawntractor batty would serve just as well. Im
> not sure, anybody here have experience or knowledge about this?
> Charlie Heathco
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery problem |
Who makes this Odessey, plug in webb, no result. Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Lee
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Battery problem
have you checked the Odyssey batteries?
PC925 is probably a similar capacity
Ron Lee
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Heathco
To: rv-list
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 8:43 AM
Subject: RV-List: Battery problem
I have to replace batty, rg25xc now near $200. Ive been told that
300 amp cold cranking lawntractor batty would serve just as well. Im not
sure, anybody here have experience or knowledge about this? Charlie
Heathco
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Battery problem |
In a message dated 5/19/2008 8:56:34 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
cheathco(at)cox.net writes:
Who makes this Odessey, plug in webb, no result.
=========================================
I suppose it would help you to find it were Odyssey spelled correctly.
N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 887hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim CArey" <tiger10(at)centurytel.net> |
Aircraft Spruce carries them
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vanremog(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Battery problem
In a message dated 5/19/2008 8:56:34 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
cheathco(at)cox.net writes:
Who makes this Odessey, plug in webb, no result.
=========================================
I suppose it would help you to find it were Odyssey spelled correctly.
N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 887hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)
_____
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at
AOL Food <http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001> .
__________ NOD32 3109 (20080519) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim CArey" <tiger10(at)centurytel.net> |
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vanremog(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Battery problem
In a message dated 5/19/2008 8:56:34 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
cheathco(at)cox.net writes:
Who makes this Odessey, plug in webb, no result.
=========================================
I suppose it would help you to find it were Odyssey spelled correctly.
N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 887hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)
_____
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at
AOL Food <http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001> .
__________ NOD32 3109 (20080519) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Battery problem |
| From: | "tsts4" <tsts4(at)verizon.net> |
Here's the link: http://www.odysseyfactory.com/
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183836#183836
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Hernandez <carlosh(at)structuralaz.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery problem |
http://www.odysseybatteries.com/
Charles Heathco wrote:
> Who makes this Odessey, plug in webb, no result. Chas
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ron Lee
> *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, May 19, 2008 10:24 AM
> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Battery problem
>
> have you checked the Odyssey batteries?
>
> PC925 is probably a similar capacity
>
> Ron Lee
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Charles Heathco
> *To:* rv-list
> *Sent:* Monday, May 19, 2008 8:43 AM
> *Subject:* RV-List: Battery problem
>
> I have to replace batty, rg25xc now near $200. Ive been told
> that 300 amp cold cranking lawntractor batty would serve just
> as well. Im not sure, anybody here have experience or
> knowledge about this? Charlie Heathco
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Checked by AVG.
>
--
Carlos Hernandez <carlosh@sec-engr.com>
Structural Engineers Company
2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3
Chandler, AZ 85224
Phone: 480.968.8600
Fax: 480.968.8608
www.sec-engr.com
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged.
This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or
organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or
an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any review, dissemination or copyingof this email and
its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is
prohibited. If you havereceived this email in error, please
immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email
from your system.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Hernandez <carlosh(at)structuralaz.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery problem |
Alot of places carry them. I got mine from a local Batteries Plus store.
Same price if not a few bucks cheaper and no delivery cost.
Here's the web page: http://www.odysseybatteries.com/
Carlos
Jim CArey wrote:
> Aircraft Spruce carries them
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Vanremog(at)aol.com
> *Sent:* Monday, May 19, 2008 9:59 AM
> *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Battery problem
>
> In a message dated 5/19/2008 8:56:34 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> cheathco(at)cox.net writes:
>
> Who makes this Odessey, plug in webb, no result.
>
> =========================================
>
> I suppose it would help you to find it were Odyssey spelled correctly.
>
> *N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 887hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)*
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
> favorites at AOL Food
> <http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001>.
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
>
> __________ NOD32 3109 (20080519) Information __________
>
> *
>
>
> *
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Checked by AVG.
>
--
Carlos Hernandez <carlosh@sec-engr.com>
Structural Engineers Company
2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3
Chandler, AZ 85224
Phone: 480.968.8600
Fax: 480.968.8608
www.sec-engr.com
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged.
This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or
organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or
an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any review, dissemination or copyingof this email and
its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is
prohibited. If you havereceived this email in error, please
immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email
from your system.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery problem |
I just ordered one from here.
http://www.batteryplex.com/odyssey-detail.cfm?model=PC680
This well be my second Odyessy, I have had the one that is in my RV-6
now since Jan. of 2003 and
it still works great even after no use for several weeks. I am only
buying a new one because I need a
new battery for my Honda Goldwing so am going to take the one from
airplane and put in motorcycle.
Charles Heathco wrote:
> I have to replace batty, rg25xc now near $200. Ive been told that 300
> amp cold cranking lawntractor batty would serve just as well. Im not
> sure, anybody here have experience or knowledge about this? Charlie
> Heathco
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Leonard" <wdleonard(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery problem |
With my electrically dependant ignition and avionics, I wanted to maximize
the battery that will fit into the stock battery box. This is what I came
up with, after hearing Someone else had good luck with panasonic sealed lead
batteries:
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/Panasonic_VRLA_LC-R1233P.pdf
it is 33 Amp.hr, deep cycle, and can be mounted in any position like the
oddessey. In fact, the description seems very much like that of the oddessy
batteries:
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/chem/seal/index.html
Have used mine for a year now with great success. I paid about $110 for it.
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Jerry Springer
wrote:
>
> I just ordered one from here.
>
> http://www.batteryplex.com/odyssey-detail.cfm?model=PC680
>
>
> This well be my second Odyessy, I have had the one that is in my RV-6 now
> since Jan. of 2003 and
> it still works great even after no use for several weeks. I am only buying
> a new one because I need a
> new battery for my Honda Goldwing so am going to take the one from airplane
> and put in motorcycle.
>
>
> Charles Heathco wrote:
>
> I have to replace batty, rg25xc now near $200. Ive been told that 300 amp
>> cold cranking lawntractor batty would serve just as well. Im not sure,
>> anybody here have experience or knowledge about this? Charlie Heathco
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> |
Odysseys work...why anguish over it.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David Leonard
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Battery problem
With my electrically dependant ignition and avionics, I wanted to
maximize the battery that will fit into the stock battery box. This is
what I came up with, after hearing Someone else had good luck with
panasonic sealed lead batteries:
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/Panasonic_VRLA
_LC-R1233P.pdf
it is 33 Amp.hr, deep cycle, and can be mounted in any position like the
oddessey. In fact, the description seems very much like that of the
oddessy batteries:
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/chem/seal/index.html
Have used mine for a year now with great success. I paid about $110 for
it.
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Jerry Springer < jsflyrv(at)verizon.net>
wrote:
I just ordered one from here.
http://www.batteryplex.com/odyssey-detail.cfm?model=PC680
This well be my second Odyessy, I have had the one that is in my RV-6
now since Jan. of 2003 and
it still works great even after no use for several weeks. I am only
buying a new one because I need a
new battery for my Honda Goldwing so am going to take the one from
airplane and put in motorcycle.
Charles Heathco wrote:
I have to replace batty, rg25xc now near $200. Ive been told that 300
amp cold cranking lawntractor batty would serve just as well. Im not
sure, anybody here have experience or knowledge about this? Charlie
Heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John DeCuir <jadecuir(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Need Terra TRT250 or 250D |
Anyone out there have a Terra transponder, preferably the "newer"
TRT250D model? My pushbutton model died last week, and I don't think
it can be revived at a reasonable cost. With limited space for
anything larger, I'm hoping to find a working or repairable "D" model
to fit in the hole. Call me, 831-277-1177 (cell). I promise I'll call
you back!
John DeCuir
N204CP
RV-4, s/n 21
Salinas, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Battery problem |
In a message dated 05/19/2008 10:39:43 AM Central Daylight Time,
denis.walsh(at)comcast.net writes:
I have to replace batty, rg25xc now near $200.
Or try one of these from Digi-key.com- A Panasonic VSLA 20 ah unit currently
offered for $80:
_http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=P231-ND_
(http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=P231-ND)
I've quite successfully used these in O-320 and IO-360 installations...
>From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark, RV-6A "Mojo"
_http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_
(http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/)
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Need Terra TRT250 or 250D |
In a message dated 5/19/2008 7:07:59 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
jadecuir(at)comcast.net writes:
Anyone out there have a Terra transponder, preferably the "newer"
TRT250D model? My pushbutton model died last week, and I don't think
it can be revived at a reasonable cost. With limited space for
anything larger, I'm hoping to find a working or repairable "D" model
to fit in the hole.
========================
Check the Yeller Pages at _http://www.matronics.com/YellerPages/_
(http://www.matronics.com/YellerPages/)
and search for Terra.
N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 895hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BRUCE GRAY <brucerv84us(at)hotmail.com> |
Hope someone can help. I breifly met Mike Terpstra in Yerrington, NV. when
he flew in to meet with his painter, his RV8 is to be painted in a couple w
eeks. Anyway, I failed to get his # or anything because I now have some que
stions for him and don't know how so reach him. I do have an address but if
someone out them knows him and I can get his e-mail or something that woul
d be great.
I'm working on an 8 myself and want to share some idea's.
TIA,
Bruce Gray
RV8 Fuse
Finishing, Wiring, & You name it!
_________________________________________________________________
Make every e-mail and IM count. Join the i=92m Initiative from Microsoft.
t
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Leonard" <wdleonard(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery problem |
Other batteries work too.
The problem with the odysseys is that the biggest one which fits inside the
battery box is only 18ah, and that is not big enough for my preference
(electric ignition, fuel pumps, and flight instruments).
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Chuck Jensen wrote:
> Odysseys work...why anguish over it.
>
> Chuck Jensen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]*On Behalf Of *David Leonard
> *Sent:* Monday, May 19, 2008 3:29 PM
> *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Battery problem
>
> With my electrically dependant ignition and avionics, I wanted to maximize
> the battery that will fit into the stock battery box. This is what I came
> up with, after hearing Someone else had good luck with panasonic sealed lead
> batteries:
>
>
> http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/Panasonic_VRLA_LC-R1233P.pdf
>
> it is 33 Amp.hr, deep cycle, and can be mounted in any position like the
> oddessey. In fact, the description seems very much like that of the oddessy
> batteries:
>
> http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/chem/seal/index.html
>
> Have used mine for a year now with great success. I paid about $110 for
> it.
>
> --
> David Leonard
>
> Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
> http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
> http://RotaryRoster.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mick Muller" <mmul6471(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 23 Msgs - 05/19/08 |
Hello Electric buffs. I have a question that may appear stupid, but I'll
take my chances.
Below is a statement made by a lister recently:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Battery problem
>
>Other batteries work too.
>
>The problem with the odysseys is that the biggest one which fits inside the
>battery box is only 18ah, and that is not big enough for my preference
>(electric ignition, fuel pumps, and flight instruments).
If I had electric ignition fuel pumps flight instruments etc that when
running should use say 30 amps in total.
If my alternator that was putting out 55Amp hours, why should I worry that
the battery was not rated at 30 amps? The main task of the battery is to
start the big fan at the front. Once that is running, the Alternator should
be able to handle the entire load and then some. So the real question should
be, what is my essential bus load , and how long do I want my battery to
last b4 I need to get on the ground?? Wouldn't it make more sense to have
two batteries rated at say 18 amp/hours each rather than a single battery
rated at 35 amp hours??
Mick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net> |
Not a stupid question. Rather an excellent observation, and a good
prompt for a discussion of battery needs for our RVs.
First, you should check the subject to insure the readers respond .
Most would probably contend that the primary role for the aircraft
battery is to carry you to a safe landing in the event of an
alternator failure. Secondary is the start. Therefore the 18 amp is
good for start since it has a good cranking amperage; however could be
marginal if you have a heavy essential load and a need to go quite a
way if alternator fails.
So the debate will rage on regarding the relative merits of a failure
warning system, an essential bus, a backup battery/alternator, and or
a bigger battery. A further consideration is a dedicated battery for
ignition or EFIS.
My current preference for my VFR RV is to have the odyssey but with
magneto ignition and a light load which includes an internal battery
for both GPS and EFIS. But if I had an automotive type powerplant
with electric fuel feed. EEC, and ignition, I would feel different.
On May 20, 2008, at 2:29 AM, Mick Muller wrote:
>
> Hello Electric buffs. I have a question that may appear stupid, but
> I'll take my chances.
> Below is a statement made by a lister recently:
>
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Battery problem
>>
>> Other batteries work too.
>>
>> The problem with the odysseys is that the biggest one which fits
>> inside the
>> battery box is only 18ah, and that is not big enough for my
>> preference
>> (electric ignition, fuel pumps, and flight instruments).
>
> If I had electric ignition fuel pumps flight instruments etc that
> when running should use say 30 amps in total.
>
> If my alternator that was putting out 55Amp hours, why should I
> worry that the battery was not rated at 30 amps? The main task of
> the battery is to start the big fan at the front. Once that is
> running, the Alternator should be able to handle the entire load and
> then some. So the real question should be, what is my essential bus
> load , and how long do I want my battery to last b4 I need to get on
> the ground?? Wouldn't it make more sense to have two batteries rated
> at say 18 amp/hours each rather than a single battery rated at 35
> amp hours??
> Mick
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> |
David,
Unless you need the extra battery weight of a larger battery for W&B, as
some canards do, why not install an E-Buss so you can shed load. The
18ah battery will last as long as a 30ah one if you shed load properly,
and it will get you home equally as well, including IFR. But hey, if
its a 'personal preference thing', load 'em up, you're entitled to
whatever floats your boat, or anchors your airplane.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David Leonard
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 1:35 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Battery problem
Other batteries work too.
The problem with the odysseys is that the biggest one which fits inside
the battery box is only 18ah, and that is not big enough for my
preference (electric ignition, fuel pumps, and flight instruments).
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Chuck Jensen < cjensen(at)dts9000.com>
wrote:
Odysseys work...why anguish over it.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David Leonard
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Battery problem
With my electrically dependant ignition and avionics, I wanted to
maximize the battery that will fit into the stock battery box. This is
what I came up with, after hearing Someone else had good luck with
panasonic sealed lead batteries:
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/Panasonic_VRLA
_LC-R1233P.pdf
it is 33 Amp.hr, deep cycle, and can be mounted in any position like the
oddessey. In fact, the description seems very much like that of the
oddessy batteries:
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/chem/seal/index.html
Have used mine for a year now with great success. I paid about $110 for
it.
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Problem |
>>> The problem with the odysseys is that the biggest one which fits inside
>>> the >>> battery box is only 18ah, and that is not big enough for my
>>> preference >>> (electric ignition, fuel pumps, and flight instruments).
This is INCORRECT. I have an Odyssey 925 in my RV-6A battery
box and am ASSUMING that it is the stock battery box.
You can get the dimensions of the 925 easily to see if it will fit.
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tracy Crook" <tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Problem |
I used the Odessey 925 as well. I did have to turn it so the terminals were
on the side to fit my stock RV-8 battery mount (not a problem for the
battery as far as I know). My 'alternator out' battery drain is about 12
amps for all system in my 'all electric' rotary engine installation.. I can
reduce that to about 9 amps by switching off non-essential stuff in a pinch.
Tracy Crook
On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 10:11 AM, Ron Lee wrote:
>
> The problem with the odysseys is that the biggest one which fits inside
>>>> the >>> battery box is only 18ah, and that is not big enough for my
>>>> preference >>> (electric ignition, fuel pumps, and flight instruments).
>>>>
>>>
> This is INCORRECT. I have an Odyssey 925 in my RV-6A battery
> box and am ASSUMING that it is the stock battery box.
>
> You can get the dimensions of the 925 easily to see if it will fit.
>
> Ron Lee
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J. Mcculley" <mcculleyja(at)starpower.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mike Terpstra |
Try www.411.com and input his address to get a phone number.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
BRUCE GRAY wrote:
> Hope someone can help. I breifly met Mike Terpstra in Yerrington, NV.
> when he flew in to meet with his painter, his RV8 is to be painted in a
> couple weeks. Anyway, I failed to get his # or anything because I now
> have some questions for him and don't know how so reach him. I do have
> an address but if someone out them knows him and I can get his e-mail or
> something that would be great.
> I'm working on an 8 myself and want to share some idea's.
>
> TIA,
>
> Bruce Gray
> RV8 Fuse
> Finishing, Wiring, & You name it!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott bilinski <rv8a2001(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mike Terpstra |
I found him on line at Phonenumber.com. All the information is on line you just
might have to put a few of the pieces together.
Scott
----- Original Message ----
From: J. Mcculley <mcculleyja(at)starpower.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 9:50:05 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Mike Terpstra
Try www.411.com and input his address to get a phone number.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
BRUCE GRAY wrote:
> Hope someone can help. I breifly met Mike Terpstra in Yerrington, NV.
> when he flew in to meet with his painter, his RV8 is to be painted in a
> couple weeks. Anyway, I failed to get his # or anything because I now
> have some questions for him and don't know how so reach him. I do have
> an address but if someone out them knows him and I can get his e-mail or
> something that would be great.
> I'm working on an 8 myself and want to share some idea's.
>
> TIA,
>
> Bruce Gray
> RV8 Fuse
> Finishing, Wiring, & You name it!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Battery problem solved, created a serious problem with KX125 |
I found a 35ah batty SLA local (ub12350 by universal) and failed to note
that pos and neg were reversed from the concord. Yes I put leads on
wrong and of course it wounmlnt crank so i flipped on all the swts and
blew 5 amp radio fuse and one other 5 amp havent found out what it
drives yet. I got batty cables fixed and replaced fuses which blew again
when turned on the radio. Anybody havave some experience with KX125 and
have an idea what i might have done? Charlie Heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Problem |
In a message dated 05/20/2008 6:49:40 AM Central Daylight Time,
denis.walsh(at)comcast.net writes:
Not a stupid question. Rather an excellent observation, and a good
prompt for a discussion of battery needs for our RVs.
>>>
Discussion: One thing I think is often missed is that one should always
consider their battery as a "reservoir" of energy, only capable of offering what
it
has on board. If the alternator goes Tango Uniform shortly after departure,
reservoir is depleted somewhat from bringing the mighty Lycoming to life. And
if extended cranking prior to departure were the case, (cold temps, hot
starts, blown procedure, whatever...) reservoir just might be quite a bit lower
than typical. Methinks it wise to consider remaining battery available based on
general condition, plus most recent consumption & time recharging in the event
of a failure...
Mark
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Current crop of pitot tubes |
| From: | "rleffler" <rvmail(at)thelefflers.com> |
Warren just posted an update to his site.
www.gretzaero.com
NOTICE: Good News!!
The heated Pitot tube part of Gretz Aero, LLC is pending a sale to a new owner!
This transfer of this part of the business will take place very soon. It will
not be long before the GA-1000 and the GA-500 are again available under a different
ownership. I hope you will be content in waiting a short time until everything
is back up and running. Thank you to all of you who have contacted me
and want to purchase the GA-1000 or GA-500 and are waiting until it is in production
again.
I enjoy developing new aviation products. Selling the heated Pitot part of my
business will allow me the time to bring some of my newest ideas into product.
I fully expect to continue with the mounting bracket part of the business and
continue to bring out new products for the aviation market.
Very soon I will make an announcement on this website disclosing the name of the
new owner and provider of the GA-1000 and GA-500. At that time I will give
the contact information for the business where you can order these fine products
Warren Gretz
--------
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Wings
RV-10 #40684
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=184136#184136
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Judge" <bjudge(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery problem |
Batteries that crank have completely different reliability tables than
batteries that don't crank. If you are dependent on electrics this is
a significant tid bit.
I've been running 2 PC625 batteries, one starts the engine and the
other is maintained through a 150 A diode and feeds the critical buss.
With electronic ignition the PC 625 is plenty of power for starting
my XP-360 and it is in most cases way too much battery for a backup.
The advantage is the same as other people have been doing for some
time, at some set time interval you dispose of the cranking battery,
move the old emergency battery to its place and buy a new emergency
battery. Some people do it at a year, I'm going to do it at 2 years
since the battery has a 8-12 year design life span. either way you've
got a fresh emergency battery that has never cranked the engine all
the time.
The PC625 is 16 AH, so multiply the number of amps you are dependent
upon by the number hours before you can comfortably land with a
reasonable safety factor and make sure that doesn't exceed 16. Since
the battery didn't crank the engine the capacity should be nearly 100%
at all times. I pretty much ignore the capacity of the starting
battery for contingency scenarios.
With internal battery backup for my GPS and EFIS I can stay upright in
the clouds just running the electronic ignition off the battery for a
greater time than my fuel endurance.
Bill Judge
N84WJ RV-8 240 hrs
rv-8.blogspot.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BRUCE GRAY <brucerv84us(at)hotmail.com> |
Yep! On the phone with him last night. Nice guy! My question to him was, Wh
ere did you get those aluminum gear leg fairings? Grove! I'll be light enou
gh that I don't need them yet.
Thanks for the info guy's,
Bruce Gray
RV8 Fuse > Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 12:51:30 -0700> From: rv8a2001(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Mike Terpstra> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com> > --> RV-L
ist message posted by: scott bilinski > > I found him o
n line at Phonenumber.com. All the information is on line you just might ha
ve to put a few of the pieces together.> > Scott > > > ----- Original Mess
age ----> From: J. Mcculley <mcculleyja(at)starpower.net>> To: rv-list@matroni
cs.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 9:50:05 AM> Subject: Re: RV-List: Mike
wer.net>> > Try www.411.com and input his address to get a phone number.> -
--------------------------------------------------------------------> > BRU
CE GRAY wrote:> > Hope someone can help. I breifly met Mike Terpstra in Yer
rington, NV. > > when he flew in to meet with his painter, his RV8 is to be
painted in a > > couple weeks. Anyway, I failed to get his # or anything b
ecause I now > > have some questions for him and don't know how so reach hi
m. I do have > > an address but if someone out them knows him and I can get
his e-mail or > > something that would be great.> > I'm working on an 8 my
self and want to share some idea's.> > > > TIA,> > > > Bruce Gray> > RV8
Fuse> > Finishing, Wiring, & You name it!> --------------------------------
==================> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Change the world with e-mail. Join the i=92m Initiative from Microsoft.
ld
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BRUCE GRAY <brucerv84us(at)hotmail.com> |
> Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 12:50:05 -0400> From: mcculleyja(at)starpower.net> To
: rv-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Mike Terpstra> > --> RV-List
message posted by: "J. Mcculley" > > Try www.411
.com and input his address to get a phone number.> ------------------------
---------------------------------------------> > BRUCE GRAY wrote:> > Hope
someone can help. I breifly met Mike Terpstra in Yerrington, NV. > > when h
e flew in to meet with his painter, his RV8 is to be painted in a > > coupl
e weeks. Anyway, I failed to get his # or anything because I now > > have s
ome questions for him and don't know how so reach him. I do have > > an add
ress but if someone out them knows him and I can get his e-mail or > > some
thing that would be great.> > I'm working on an 8 myself and want to share
some idea's.> > > > TIA,> > > > Bruce Gray> > RV8 Fuse> > Finishing, Wiring
, & You name it!> ---------------------------------------------------------
=======> > > I tried it and I recieved a hit on his name. It
was him. Thanks for your help.
Bruce Gray
RV8 Fuse
_________________________________________________________________
Give to a good cause with every e-mail. Join the i=92m Initiative from Micr
osoft.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Dean <billoves2fly(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery problem |
Thew battewry shopuld be used to start you ewngine and then your alternator
should be powerful ewnough to run everything.=0A=0A=0A----- Original Messa
ge ----=0AFrom: David Leonard <wdleonard(at)gmail.com>=0ATo: rv-list@matronics
.com=0ASent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 12:34:49 AM=0ASubject: Re: RV-List: Batt
ery problem=0A=0AOther batteries work too. =0A=0AThe problem with the odyss
eys is that the biggest one which fits inside the battery box is only 18ah,
and that is not big enough for my preference (electric ignition, fuel pump
s, and flight instruments).=0A=0A-- =0ADavid Leonard=0A=0ATurbo Rotary RV-6
N4VY=0Ahttp://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net=0Ahttp://RotaryRoster.net=0A=0A=0A=0AO
n Mon, May 19, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Chuck Jensen wrote:
=0A=0AOdysseys work...why anguish over it.- =0A-=0AChuck Jensen =0A----
-Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:o
wner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David Leonard=0ASent: Monday
, May 19, 2008 3:29 PM=0ATo: rv-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: RV-List:
Battery problem=0A=0A=0AWith my electrically dependant ignition and avionic
s, I wanted to maximize the battery that will fit into the stock battery bo
x.- This is what I came up with, after hearing Someone else had good luck
with panasonic sealed lead batteries:=0A=0Ahttp://www.panasonic.com/indust
rial/battery/oem/images/pdf/Panasonic_VRLA_LC-R1233P.pdf=0A=0Ait is 33 Amp.
hr, deep cycle, and can be mounted in any position like the oddessey.- In
fact, the description seems very much like that of the oddessy batteries:
=0A=0Ahttp://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/chem/seal/index.html
=0A=0AHave used mine for a year now with great success.- I paid about $11
0 for it.=0A=0A-- =0ADavid Leonard=0A=0ATurbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY=0Ahttp://N4V
=========================0A
=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wheeler North" <wnorth(at)sdccd.edu> |
This is not really an issue.
My hangar to run-up ramp to runway is about 300 feet of taxiway. By the time
I get done with the runup my load meter has dropped to 11 amps which is it's
normal duty for everything turned on except the lights and flaps. And I have
dual IFR and dual EFIS. Minimizing this with the 18AH I easily have an hour
to get the ground.
Wiring things as a load mater gives one a better picture of what is going on,
but even better one can use two shunts and STDP switch on the feed to the amp
gauge to have both a load meter and a charge indicator which gives you a
complete picture of alternator output and battery charge rate by simply
flipping the switch.
<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Discussion: One thing I think is often missed is that one should always
consider their battery as a "reservoir" of energy, only capable of offering
what
it
has on board. If the alternator goes Tango Uniform shortly after departure,
reservoir is depleted somewhat from bringing the mighty Lycoming to life.
And
if extended cranking prior to departure were the case, (cold temps, hot
starts, blown procedure, whatever...) reservoir just might be quite a bit
lower
than typical. Methinks it wise to consider remaining battery available based
on
general condition, plus most recent consumption & time recharging in the
event
of a failure...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob <panamared5(at)brier.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Discussion |
>
>Discussion: One thing I think is often missed is that one should
>always consider their battery as a "reservoir" of energy, only
>capable of offering what it has on board. If the alternator goes
>Tango Uniform shortly after departure, reservoir is depleted
>somewhat from bringing the mighty Lycoming to life. And if extended
>cranking prior to departure were the case, (cold temps, hot starts,
>blown procedure, whatever...) reservoir just might be quite a bit
>lower than typical. Methinks it wise to consider remaining battery
>available based on general condition, plus most recent consumption &
>time recharging in the event of a failure...
For the redundant types, why not just put on a second alternator, it
is a lot lighter and my primary alternator was a lot cheaper than
the battery ($70.00).
If the alternator fails upon take off, maybe, it might just be
possible to land where you took off from? Of if in route maybe you
could land at the nearest airport? When I fly cross country I use
airports as my waypoints. At least in the east, seldom do I have a
waypoint that is more than 30 miles away!
On the other hand many of my aerobatic friends fly with no alternator
at all and battery only, one guy gets 30 starts before he has to
recharge the battery. And yes they do fly cross country to get to
aerobatic meets.
Two seats for two pilots with two alternators and two batteries! Why not?
Bob
RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre Flight Problems |
On 21 May 2008, at 20:40, rveighta wrote:
>
> Listers, I'm hoping to make the first flight of my RV-8 in the next
> few days, but I have a couple of problems I need to sort out first.
>
> - With the Batt & Avionics Master on, the manifold pressure
> needle pegs when the radio xmit button is
> pressed. Any ideas about what could be causing this?
>
Which MP gauge do you have?
This appears to be a relatively common complaint with Van's MP
gauge. It seems that it picks up radio frequency energy. I haven't
seen a solution, other than not looking at the MP gauge when
transmitting.
> - With the Batt Master On, before engine start, the fuel
> pressure gauge is at zero; as soon as I hit the
> boost pump it climbs to around 30psi and stays there during
> engine run (with the boost pump turned off)
> What is normal fuel pressure for an engine with carburetor
> with the engine running? (Can't find this
> in my engine manual).
Where in the fuel system are you measuring fuel pressure?
If you have an O-360, with a Facet (Marvel Schebler) MA-4 or HA-6
series carb, the fuel pressure at the inlet to the carb should be
between 0.5 and 8 psi. This info is from engine Type Certificate
Data Sheet E-286, available on the FAA web site.
>
--
Kevin Horton
RV-8 (FInal Assembly)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Discussion |
In a message dated 05/21/2008 10:13:39 AM Central Daylight Time,
panamared5(at)brier.net writes:
Two seats for two pilots with two alternators and two batteries! Why not?
"Cause I'm a two-seat (typically one-pilot), one alternator, one battery
kinda pilot: Limited budget. No IFR. No question more redundancy is better when
mission dictates, but design for the mission. And always understand the
physics of whatever configuration you aviate with...
Good discussion-
Mark
**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Battery, and radio problems update. |
Update, the new $80 batty realy kicks it over, like it, now have found
out that radio, intercom and xponder all blown. I had a spare 76a bought
on ebay 4 yrs ago we put it in and it works. KX125 had blown zener, dont
know what problem is with xponder or icom yet. Hard to believe I totally
ignore the red terminal and proceeded to hook up batty same as previous.
Dum de dum dum----Dum. Charlie H
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jim-bean(at)att.net |
| Subject: | re: pre flight problem |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rveighta <rveighta(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | PreFlight Problems - Thanks Guys!! |
Thanks to those who responded to my problems with high fuel pressure and the Manifold
Press gauge which pegs when the radio is keyed.
As usual, I did something dumb - there are two fuel gauges available from Van's;
I ordered and Installed the one for an injected engine, which goes from 0-50
psi. The gauge needle is at the one o'clock position when the engine is running,
which on the injected version of the gauge is 30 psi. From the picture in
Van's catalog, one o'clock is about 8 psi on the carbureted version, just about
right.
With the manifold pressure gauge, I'm thinking Kevin Horton is right about Vans
gauges being sensitive to RF energy. I'll fly with it the way it is for a while,
then when I get time, I'll try John Fasching's solution.
Thanks again fellow listers......
Walt Shipley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | F I fuel pump for sale |
Listers,
I have a brand new (in the box) Carter electric fuel pump. This is the same fuel
pump sold by Airflow Performance and Vans. This is ONLY the pump itself, without
the manifold, pressure relief valve and check valve.
I decided to save some money and buy/build the other parts myself. I built mine
for about $250. I bought two extra pumps for my friends. However, one guy decided
to use a carbureted engine and backed out.
Airflow Performance sells the bare pump for $300. I'll sell this one for $180 plus
shipping ($10-$16). I also have info on how to build the manifold and where
to buy the valves. Contact me off list if interested.
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wheeler North" <wnorth(at)sdccd.edu> |
| Subject: | RE: RV-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/22/08 |
Vans gauges suck for RF intolerance, I've thrown away about four of them. Of
course Van's won't acknowledge there is a problem.
please archive again and again
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Garmin SL-30 For Sale |
I had a customer change his mind on his panel from an SL-30 to an SL-40
so if anyone is in need of a factory new / still sealed and in the box
SL-30 please call...
Will include a 3' power/nav audio/comm audio/ptt harness.....$3500
-Bill VonDane
ePanel Builder
bill(at)epanelbuilder.com
719-266-2388
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mr.gsun(at)gmail.com |
| Subject: | Re: F I fuel pump for sale |
Charlie,
If you or anybody else knows a lot about these pumps, maybe I'm your buyer.
I've got one in my RV that is about 4 yrs old with 300 hrs. About 50 hrs
ago, I ran it inadvertantly for a few minutes with the fuel valve off. It
may be my imagination, but it makes more noise now. No leaks, plenty of
pressure but this may be a good time to replace it. I guess my question is,
will a few minutes of running with a closed off suction damage these pumps?
Greg
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 5:36 AM, Charles Kuss wrote:
>
> Listers,
> I have a brand new (in the box) Carter electric fuel pump. This is the
> same fuel pump sold by Airflow Performance and Vans. This is ONLY the pump
> itself, without the manifold, pressure relief valve and check valve.
> I decided to save some money and buy/build the other parts myself. I built
> mine for about $250. I bought two extra pumps for my friends. However, one
> guy decided to use a carbureted engine and backed out.
> Airflow Performance sells the bare pump for $300. I'll sell this one for
> $180 plus shipping ($10-$16). I also have info on how to build the manifold
> and where to buy the valves. Contact me off list if interested.
> Charlie Kuss
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | How to Tell if You have ECI/Superior Cylinders |
| From: | "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com> |
I've had a few inquiries about whether or not customers' engines may be
affected by the proposed Superior/ECI service bulletins. Some of you
may not know which types of cylinders were used on your engine. If your
engine builder provided you with a detailed parts list, you should be
able to distinguish which manufacturer made your cylinders by reviewing
the nomenclature. ECI Lycoming replacement cylinders have an AEL in
front of them, and Superior Lycoming replacement cylinders have an SL.
If you have purchased a kit engine from BPE, only Lycoming OEM cylinders
were used.
If your engine builder did not provide you a detailed parts list, you
can easily identify which cylinders you have by looking at the rocker
box boss above the exhaust port for the AEL, SL or Millenium insignia.
Hope this information is helpful to at least some of you!
Everyone have a safe and enjoyable holiday weekend!
Rhonda Barrett-Bewley
Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
2870-B N. Sheridan Rd.
Tulsa, OK 74115
(918) 835-1089 phone
(918) 835-1754 fax
www.barrettprecisionengines.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: F I fuel pump for sale |
Greg
The fuel in the pump actually lubricates the bearings and internal parts of the
pump. I'm an auto mechanic by trade. I've seen pumps (in cars) make noise and
yet runs for years after. However, a noisy pump is usually the first sign of
a future failure.
Charlie
--- On Fri, 5/23/08, mr.gsun(at)gmail.com wrote:
> From: mr.gsun(at)gmail.com <mr.gsun(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: F I fuel pump for sale
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Friday, May 23, 2008, 12:59 PM
> Charlie,
> If you or anybody else knows a lot about these pumps, maybe
> I'm your buyer.
> I've got one in my RV that is about 4 yrs old with 300
> hrs. About 50 hrs
> ago, I ran it inadvertantly for a few minutes with the fuel
> valve off. It
> may be my imagination, but it makes more noise now. No
> leaks, plenty of
> pressure but this may be a good time to replace it. I
> guess my question is,
> will a few minutes of running with a closed off suction
> damage these pumps?
> Greg
>
> On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 5:36 AM, Charles Kuss
> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Listers,
> > I have a brand new (in the box) Carter electric fuel
> pump. This is the
> > same fuel pump sold by Airflow Performance and Vans.
> This is ONLY the pump
> > itself, without the manifold, pressure relief valve
> and check valve.
> > I decided to save some money and buy/build the other
> parts myself. I built
> > mine for about $250. I bought two extra pumps for my
> friends. However, one
> > guy decided to use a carbureted engine and backed out.
> > Airflow Performance sells the bare pump for $300.
> I'll sell this one for
> > $180 plus shipping ($10-$16). I also have info on how
> to build the manifold
> > and where to buy the valves. Contact me off list if
> interested.
> > Charlie Kuss
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David" <davewendi(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Determining value of RV-6AQB kit for sale |
Hello All,
I have searched the archives and not found the answer.
I have someone interested in my RV-6AQB kit. It includes
the tail, wing, and fuse kit but no finishing kit. I paid $17,800
for the kit plus shipping. Approx. 200 hours build time but lets
assume no work has been done. If anyone can provide some
insight on what would be a fair asking price, I would appreciate it!
Thanks,
David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Leonard" <wdleonard(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Determining value of RV-6AQB kit for sale |
David,
In 1999 I paid $17k for my QB kit second-hand. It included the finish kit
and the empenage kit had been build (very nice job). QB kits from Vans were
going for something like $25k at the time.
Hope that helps as a data point.
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 2:23 PM, David wrote:
> Hello All,
>
>
> I have searched the archives and not found the answer.
>
> I have someone interested in my RV-6AQB kit. It includes
>
> the tail, wing, and fuse kit but no finishing kit. I paid $17,800
>
> for the kit plus shipping. Approx. 200 hours build time but lets
>
> assume no work has been done. If anyone can provide some
>
> insight on what would be a fair asking price, I would appreciate it!
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mr.gsun(at)gmail.com |
| Subject: | Re: Determining value of RV-6AQB kit for sale |
David,
Just another opinion. I sold my 50% completed RV-9a kit with instruments,
prop but no engine for what I had purchased it all from Van's. Prices had
gone up and I had paid some builder assistance dollars and of course freight
costs. The buyer got a good deal because prices had gone up since I started
on the kit 3 years back and quality was quite good. And I felt good about
not losing out on my matl's costs. I figured my labor, freight & help were
just part of my learning experience. I'm now flying a completed RV and
very, very happy with my decision to buy and stop building. I have lots of
build experience but with a better RV than I would have ended up with for (
I think) less money.
Another Data Point.
Greg
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 2:42 PM, David Leonard wrote:
> David,
>
> In 1999 I paid $17k for my QB kit second-hand. It included the finish kit
> and the empenage kit had been build (very nice job). QB kits from Vans were
> going for something like $25k at the time.
>
> Hope that helps as a data point.
>
> --
> David Leonard
>
> Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
> http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
> http://RotaryRoster.net
>
>
> On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 2:23 PM, David wrote:
>
>> Hello All,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have searched the archives and not found the answer.
>>
>> I have someone interested in my RV-6AQB kit. It includes
>>
>> the tail, wing, and fuse kit but no finishing kit. I paid $17,800
>>
>> for the kit plus shipping. Approx. 200 hours build time but lets
>>
>> assume no work has been done. If anyone can provide some
>>
>> insight on what would be a fair asking price, I would appreciate it!
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> David
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan <dan(at)rdan.com> |
I had a week moment,,,, with a 2 year old QB-8 in the garage which I look at every
day but had not worked much in about a year. I'd been busy with work and life
I had lost interest and motivation to get back into the project.
I decided to sell it.
When my 11 year old daughter found out she was astounded and asked a simple question
"Why are you going to quit? I thought you wanted to build the plane"
Simply put,,
never give up
So I will build, and not just for me,,
I went out dusted it off and built a simple rewarding thing like build the front
seat,
I'm back on a roll, in the grove, it will fly,
Dan
Lake Stevens WA
-8
Reserved N728RV
I will never give up, it will fly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan <dan(at)rdan.com> |
I had a week moment,,,, with a 2 year old QB-8 in the garage which I look at every
day but had not worked much in about a year. I'd been busy with work and life
I had lost interest and motivation to get back into the project.
I decided to sell it.
When my 11 year old daughter found out she was astounded and asked a simple question
"Why are you going to quit? I thought you wanted to build the plane"
Simply put,,
never give up
So I will build, and not just for me,,
I went out dusted it off and built a simple rewarding thing like build the front
seat,
I'm back on a roll, in the grove, it will fly,
Dan
Lake Stevens WA
-8
Reserved N728RV
I will never give up, it will fly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Nellis <truflite(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I will not quit |
I told my wife the only way my plane will not fly is
if I die first. Build on!
Dave Nellis
7A Slider-wings
--- Dan wrote:
> I had a week moment,,,, with a 2 year old QB-8 in
> the garage which I look at every day but had not
> worked much in about a year. I'd been busy with work
> and life I had lost interest and motivation to get
> back into the project.
> I decided to sell it.
> When my 11 year old daughter found out she was
> astounded and asked a simple question "Why are you
> going to quit? I thought you wanted to build the
> plane"
>
> Simply put,,
> never give up
>
> So I will build, and not just for me,,
>
> I went out dusted it off and built a simple
> rewarding thing like build the front seat,
> I'm back on a roll, in the grove, it will fly,
>
> Dan
> Lake Stevens WA
> -8
> Reserved N728RV
>
> I will never give up, it will fly
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: I will not quit |
When I built my RV-6 there were no such things as quick built anything,
I would look at
all of the parts and it would be overwhelming. The secret is to just to
try to do a little bit everyday,
look at each task not as a whole. Pretty soon you well run out of things
to do and well have to fly
it. :-)
Jerry
First flight July 14 1989 and still loving it.
Dan wrote:
> I had a week moment,,,, with a 2 year old QB-8 in the garage which I
> look at every day but had not worked much in about a year. I'd been
> busy with work and life I had lost interest and motivation to get back
> into the project.
> I decided to sell it.
> When my 11 year old daughter found out she was astounded and asked a
> simple question "Why are you going to quit? I thought you wanted to
> build the plane"
>
> Simply put,,
> never give up
>
> So I will build, and not just for me,,
>
> I went out dusted it off and built a simple rewarding thing like build
> the front seat,
> I'm back on a roll, in the grove, it will fly,
>
> Dan
> Lake Stevens WA
> -8
> Reserved N728RV
>
> I will never give up, it will fly
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Stringham <fstringham(at)hotmail.com> |
Dan
Congrats on the new found desire........Since Sept 4, 2004 I have been work
ing off and on on an RV7A.....Like you family, work, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, l
ife's responsibilities have turned a 18 month project into a nearly 4 year
project. I am now in the final 1000 last details and hope to fly by the end
of this summer. Many well meaning folks have said why in the world would y
ou keep going considering the cost, time commitment, frustration, and you n
ame....(put negative reason to quit hear).....but I tell them I CAN'T......
"I would never feel good teaching my kids and grandkids that it is OK to gi
ve up a worthy project".......
Dan I congratulate you on keeping your dream...and teaching moment....alive
Frank @ 1L8...... RV7A......Last 992 details of which 9000 are fiberglass r
elated............
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 09:01:04 -0700From: dan(at)rdan.comSubject: RV-List: I
will not quitTo: rv-list(at)matronics.com
I had a week moment,,,, with a 2 year old QB-8 in the garage which I look a
t every day but had not worked much in about a year. I'd been busy with wor
k and life I had lost interest and motivation to get back into the project.
I decided to sell it.
When my 11 year old daughter found out she was astounded and asked a simple
question "Why are you going to quit? I thought you wanted to build the pl
ane"
Simply put,,
never give up
So I will build, and not just for me,,
I went out dusted it off and built a simple rewarding thing like build the
front seat,
I'm back on a roll, in the grove, it will fly,
Dan
Lake Stevens WA
-8
Reserved N728RV
I will never give up, it will fly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I will not quit |
I agree with Jerry, Dan, focus on building a small piece as the goal of each
"project" otherwise, the entire project just seems overwhelming. I tried to
commit at least 2 hours each and every day - identified a specific
accomplishment I wanted to achieve - even if it was just to measure the
position for the next 10 rivet holes (yes, before the days of punched rivet
holes {:>))
After 3 years (yes, I did average a bit more than 2 hours per day), but the
thrill when I first flew it will always be remembered.
The only thing I regret, is waiting until I was 56 years old before I
started my dream. Don't lose you dream - stay with it.
Best Regards
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
http://www.andersonee.com
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Springer" <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: I will not quit
>
> When I built my RV-6 there were no such things as quick built anything, I
> would look at
> all of the parts and it would be overwhelming. The secret is to just to
> try to do a little bit everyday,
> look at each task not as a whole. Pretty soon you well run out of things
> to do and well have to fly
> it. :-)
>
> Jerry
> First flight July 14 1989 and still loving it.
>
>
> Dan wrote:
>
>> I had a week moment,,,, with a 2 year old QB-8 in the garage which I look
>> at every day but had not worked much in about a year. I'd been busy with
>> work and life I had lost interest and motivation to get back into the
>> project.
>> I decided to sell it.
>> When my 11 year old daughter found out she was astounded and asked a
>> simple question "Why are you going to quit? I thought you wanted to
>> build the plane"
>> Simply put,,
>> never give up
>> So I will build, and not just for me,,
>> I went out dusted it off and built a simple rewarding thing like build
>> the front seat,
>> I'm back on a roll, in the grove, it will fly,
>> Dan
>> Lake Stevens WA
>> -8
>> Reserved N728RV
>> I will never give up, it will fly
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I will not quit |
Good for you Dan! A lesson for you and an example for your daughter.
Plus, you will love the airplane when it is done.
Allow me to make a few comments.
Building an airplane was in my Bucket List since college. When I had
doubts while building, I would think about my "regrets list" and was
this going to be one of my life time regrets. Sometimes it was the
knowledge that I would be sorry if I didn't complete it more than the
desire to finish it that kept me going.
Don't be discouraged when others ask "when is it going to fly". As
others have pointed out, working consistently helps but work at your own
pace so as to not let the airplane become an issue with you or at home.
While building my 6A there were two periods when the project was not
touched for a year or more because of other priorities.
Building the airplane is one of my most cherished personal
accomplishment. N728RV will be one of yours.
Regards and best wishes with the project.
Dale Ensing
RV-6A N118DE
Aero Plantation
Weddington NC
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:01 PM
Subject: RV-List: I will not quit
I had a week moment,,,, with a 2 year old QB-8 in the garage which I
look at every day but had not worked much in about a year. I'd been busy
with work and life I had lost interest and motivation to get back into
the project.
I decided to sell it.
When my 11 year old daughter found out she was astounded and asked a
simple question "Why are you going to quit? I thought you wanted to
build the plane"
Simply put,,
never give up
So I will build, and not just for me,,
I went out dusted it off and built a simple rewarding thing like build
the front seat,
I'm back on a roll, in the grove, it will fly,
Dan
Lake Stevens WA
-8
Reserved N728RV
I will never give up, it will fly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jan <jan(at)claver.demon.co.uk> |
I have been working on my RV6 for almost 20 years... !! Moving around a
lot... Having kids .... Work .... Do not give up ... I should have the wings
done this year and the fuselage next year ...
About 10 years ago someone wanted to buy the parts I had made ... no way
would I sell ... it has taken a long time to get this far ... and no way
will I give up ... So hang in there ... It will be great when it is done !!
Best of luck !!
Jan
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing
Sent: 24 May 2008 20:39
Subject: Re: RV-List: I will not quit
Good for you Dan! A lesson for you and an example for your daughter. Plus,
you will love the airplane when it is done.
Allow me to make a few comments.
Building an airplane was in my Bucket List since college. When I had doubts
while building, I would think about my "regrets list" and was this going to
be one of my life time regrets. Sometimes it was the knowledge that I would
be sorry if I didn't complete it more than the desire to finish it that kept
me going.
Don't be discouraged when others ask "when is it going to fly". As others
have pointed out, working consistently helps but work at your own pace so as
to not let the airplane become an issue with you or at home. While building
my 6A there were two periods when the project was not touched for a year or
more because of other priorities.
Building the airplane is one of my most cherished personal accomplishment.
N728RV will be one of yours.
Regards and best wishes with the project.
Dale Ensing
RV-6A N118DE
Aero Plantation
Weddington NC
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan <mailto:dan(at)rdan.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:01 PM
Subject: RV-List: I will not quit
I had a week moment,,,, with a 2 year old QB-8 in the garage which I look at
every day but had not worked much in about a year. I'd been busy with work
and life I had lost interest and motivation to get back into the project.
I decided to sell it.
When my 11 year old daughter found out she was astounded and asked a simple
question "Why are you going to quit? I thought you wanted to build the
plane"
Simply put,,
never give up
So I will build, and not just for me,,
I went out dusted it off and built a simple rewarding thing like build the
front seat,
I'm back on a roll, in the grove, it will fly,
Dan
Lake Stevens WA
-8
Reserved N728RV
I will never give up, it will fly
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
I have been working on my RV6 for
almost
20 years… !! Moving around a lot… Having kids …. Work
….
Do not give up … I should have the wings done this year and the
fuselage
next year …
About 10 years ago someone wanted
to buy
the parts I had made … no way would I sell … it has taken a
long
time to get this far … and no way will I give up … So hang
in there
… It will be great when it is done
!!
Best of luck
!!
Jan
From:
owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing
Sent: 24 May 2008
20:39
To:
rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: I
will not
quit
Good for you Dan! A lesson for you and an example
for your
daughter. Plus, you will love the airplane when it is
done.
Allow me to make a few
comments.
Building an airplane was in my Bucket List since
college.
When I had doubts while building, I would think about my
"regrets
list" and was this going to be one of my life time regrets.
Sometimes it
was the knowledge that I would be sorry if I didn't complete it more
than the
desire to finish it that kept me going.
Don't be discouraged when others ask "when is
it going
to fly". As others have pointed out, working consistently helps
but work
at your own pace so as to not let the airplane become an
issue with you or
at home. While building my 6A there were two periods when the project
was not
touched for a year or more because of other
priorities.
Building the airplane is one of my most cherished
personal
accomplishment. N728RV will be one of
yours.
Regards and best wishes with the
project.
----- Original Message -----
Sent:
Saturday, May 24,
2008 12:01 PM
Subject:
RV-List: I will
not quit
I had a week moment,,,, with a 2 year old QB-8 in the garage
which I
look at every day but had not worked much in about a year. I'd been
busy with
work and life I had lost interest and motivation to get back into the
project.
When my 11 year old daughter found out she was astounded and
asked a
simple question "Why are you going to quit? I thought you
wanted to
build the plane"
So I will build, and not just for me,,
I went out dusted it off and built a simple rewarding thing
like build
the front seat,
I'm back on a roll, in the grove, it will
fly,
I will never give up, it will fly
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-Lis
t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List><
/font>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http
://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution&quo
t;>http://www.matronics.com/c>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
And I thought I was bad, working 12 years on my Glasair III.
Bruce
<http://www.glasair.org/> www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jan
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 7:20 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: I will not quit
I have been working on my RV6 for almost 20 years. !! Moving around a lot.
Having kids .. Work .. Do not give up . I should have the wings done this
year and the fuselage next year .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Cantrell" <kcflyrv(at)comcast.net> |
Dan,
Great and touching story! Your daughter will someday look back with pride
knowing that she has played a part of your decision to build on and realize
your dream. This can only help to build her confidence to voice her opinion
on important issues as she grows older.
I built my "6" from '98 to '02 and I am enjoying it as much today as I did
the first day we flew. It changes your life in many ways and it's inspiring
to read your story.
I too have another RV project in my shop that's collecting dust but now I'm
charged up to get back to daily progress
Ken Cantrell
720 hours
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 9:01 AM
Subject: RV-List: I will not quit
I had a week moment,,,, with a 2 year old QB-8 in the garage which I look at
every day but had not worked much in about a year. I'd been busy with work
and life I had lost interest and motivation to get back into the project.
I decided to sell it.
When my 11 year old daughter found out she was astounded and asked a simple
question "Why are you going to quit? I thought you wanted to build the
plane"
Simply put,,
never give up
So I will build, and not just for me,,
I went out dusted it off and built a simple rewarding thing like build the
front seat,
I'm back on a roll, in the grove, it will fly,
Dan
Lake Stevens WA
-8
Reserved N728RV
I will never give up, it will fly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davcor(at)comcast.net |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davcor(at)comcast.net |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Stringham <fstringham(at)hotmail.com> |
Jan
And I thought my 3 plus years was bad....you are an inspiration
Frank @ 1L8 ....RV7A ......final 992 details...........
From: jan(at)claver.demon.co.ukTo: rv-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RE: RV-List:
I will not quitDate: Sun, 25 May 2008 00:20:00 +0100
I have been working on my RV6 for almost 20 years=85 !! Moving around a lot
=85 Having kids =85. Work =85. Do not give up =85 I should have the wings d
one this year and the fuselage next year =85
About 10 years ago someone wanted to buy the parts I had made =85 no way wo
uld I sell =85 it has taken a long time to get this far =85 and no way will
I give up =85 So hang in there =85 It will be great when it is done !!
Best of luck !!
Jan
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matro
nics.com] On Behalf Of Dale EnsingSent: 24 May 2008 20:39To: rv-list@matron
ics.comSubject: Re: RV-List: I will not quit
Good for you Dan! A lesson for you and an example for your daughter. Plus,
you will love the airplane when it is done.
Allow me to make a few comments.
Building an airplane was in my Bucket List since college. When I had doubts
while building, I would think about my "regrets list" and was this going t
o be one of my life time regrets. Sometimes it was the knowledge that I wou
ld be sorry if I didn't complete it more than the desire to finish it that
kept me going.
Don't be discouraged when others ask "when is it going to fly". As others h
ave pointed out, working consistently helps but work at your own pace so as
to not let the airplane become an issue with you or at home. While buildin
g my 6A there were two periods when the project was not touched for a year
or more because of other priorities.
Building the airplane is one of my most cherished personal accomplishment.
N728RV will be one of yours.
Regards and best wishes with the project.
Dale Ensing
RV-6A N118DE
Aero Plantation
Weddington NC
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:01 PM
Subject: RV-List: I will not quit
I had a week moment,,,, with a 2 year old QB-8 in the garage which I look a
t every day but had not worked much in about a year. I'd been busy with wor
k and life I had lost interest and motivation to get back into the project.
I decided to sell it.
When my 11 year old daughter found out she was astounded and asked a simple
question "Why are you going to quit? I thought you wanted to build the pl
ane"
Simply put,,
never give up
So I will build, and not just for me,,
I went out dusted it off and built a simple rewarding thing like build the
front seat,
I'm back on a roll, in the grove, it will fly,
Dan
Lake Stevens WA
-8
Reserved N728RV
I will never give up, it will fly
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.ma
tronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matron
ics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Reginald C. Smith, Sr." <smirdrv(at)hotmail.com> |
I started my 6A in '98, and am just now a ready for the Fuselage kit. I'd
just about given up on being able to complete it (I turn 56 in June. So to
here someone say they didn't start till that age takes away any excuse I ha
d. The benefit is that I just completed Tail Wheel Transition training and
now have my endorsement. So I think I'll build a '6' instead. Any thoughts
on a 5ft 5in guy flying a taildragger? I checked with Van's and they say t
his is the time to make the choice. Anyway, thank you Dan for setting me f
ree from my dilemma. If any on knows of a Fuselage kit gathering dust anywh
ere, let me know.
R.C
Building with new enthusiasm.
From: fstringham(at)hotmail.comTo: rv-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RE: RV-List:
I will not quitDate: Sat, 24 May 2008 20:19:17 -0600
Jan And I thought my 3 plus years was bad....you are an inspiration Frank @
1L8 ....RV7A ......final 992 details...........
From: jan(at)claver.demon.co.ukTo: rv-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RE: RV-List:
I will not quitDate: Sun, 25 May 2008 00:20:00 +0100
I have been working on my RV6 for almost 20 years=85 !! Moving around a lot
=85 Having kids =85. Work =85. Do not give up =85 I should have the wings d
one this year and the fuselage next year =85
About 10 years ago someone wanted to buy the parts I had made =85 no way wo
uld I sell =85 it has taken a long time to get this far =85 and no way will
I give up =85 So hang in there =85 It will be great when it is done !!
Best of luck !!
Jan
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matro
nics.com] On Behalf Of Dale EnsingSent: 24 May 2008 20:39To: rv-list@matron
ics.comSubject: Re: RV-List: I will not quit
Good for you Dan! A lesson for you and an example for your daughter. Plus,
you will love the airplane when it is done.
Allow me to make a few comments.
Building an airplane was in my Bucket List since college. When I had doubts
while building, I would think about my "regrets list" and was this going t
o be one of my life time regrets. Sometimes it was the knowledge that I wou
ld be sorry if I didn't complete it more than the desire to finish it that
kept me going.
Don't be discouraged when others ask "when is it going to fly". As others h
ave pointed out, working consistently helps but work at your own pace so as
to not let the airplane become an issue with you or at home. While buildin
g my 6A there were two periods when the project was not touched for a year
or more because of other priorities.
Building the airplane is one of my most cherished personal accomplishment.
N728RV will be one of yours.
Regards and best wishes with the project.
Dale Ensing
RV-6A N118DE
Aero Plantation
Weddington NC
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:01 PM
Subject: RV-List: I will not quit
I had a week moment,,,, with a 2 year old QB-8 in the garage which I look a
t every day but had not worked much in about a year. I'd been busy with wor
k and life I had lost interest and motivation to get back into the project.
I decided to sell it.
When my 11 year old daughter found out she was astounded and asked a simple
question "Why are you going to quit? I thought you wanted to build the pl
ane"
Simply put,,
never give up
So I will build, and not just for me,,
I went out dusted it off and built a simple rewarding thing like build the
front seat,
I'm back on a roll, in the grove, it will fly,
Dan
Lake Stevens WA
-8
Reserved N728RV
I will never give up, it will fly
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.ma
tronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matron
ics.com/c
t=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_________________________________________________________________
Make every e-mail and IM count. Join the i=92m Initiative from Microsoft.
t
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Bell" <carlbell(at)gforcecable.com> |
Ed Booth at Twins Lakes SC is one of the best flying 65 year old RV 7 pilots
I know and he is about 5'6". If I had 2 legs I would be building a 7 vs. a
7A. Its like training wheels, but at lest I'm flying. You only go around
once unless you are a Buddhist, just do it. Good luck CJ
Carl W Bell (CJ)
Building RV 7A - N947CB
http://www.mykitlog.com/carlbell
carlbell(at)gforcecable.com
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Reginald C. Smith,
Sr.
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 10:47 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: I will not quit
I started my 6A in '98, and am just now a ready for the Fuselage kit. I'd
just about given up on being able to complete it (I turn 56 in June. So to
here someone say they didn't start till that age takes away any excuse I
had. The benefit is that I just completed Tail Wheel Transition training and
now have my endorsement. So I think I'll build a '6' instead. Any thoughts
on a 5ft 5in guy flying a taildragger? I checked with Van's and they say
this is the time to make the choice. Anyway, thank you Dan for setting me
free from my dilemma. If any on knows of a Fuselage kit gathering dust
anywhere, let me know.
R.C
Building with new enthusiasm.
_____
From: fstringham(at)hotmail.com
Subject: RE: RV-List: I will not quit
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 20:19:17 -0600
Jan
And I thought my 3 plus years was bad....you are an inspiration
Frank @ 1L8 ....RV7A ......final 992 details...........
_____
From: jan(at)claver.demon.co.uk
Subject: RE: RV-List: I will not quit
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 00:20:00 +0100
I have been working on my RV6 for almost 20 years. !! Moving around a lot.
Having kids .. Work .. Do not give up . I should have the wings done this
year and the fuselage next year .
About 10 years ago someone wanted to buy the parts I had made . no way would
I sell . it has taken a long time to get this far . and no way will I give
up . So hang in there . It will be great when it is done !!
Best of luck !!
Jan
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing
Sent: 24 May 2008 20:39
Subject: Re: RV-List: I will not quit
Good for you Dan! A lesson for you and an example for your daughter. Plus,
you will love the airplane when it is done.
Allow me to make a few comments.
Building an airplane was in my Bucket List since college. When I had doubts
while building, I would think about my "regrets list" and was this going to
be one of my life time regrets. Sometimes it was the knowledge that I would
be sorry if I didn't complete it more than the desire to finish it that kept
me going.
Don't be discouraged when others ask "when is it going to fly". As others
have pointed out, working consistently helps but work at your own pace so as
to not let the airplane become an issue with you or at home. While building
my 6A there were two periods when the project was not touched for a year or
more because of other priorities.
Building the airplane is one of my most cherished personal accomplishment.
N728RV will be one of yours.
Regards and best wishes with the project.
Dale Ensing
RV-6A N118DE
Aero Plantation
Weddington NC
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan <mailto:dan(at)rdan.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:01 PM
Subject: RV-List: I will not quit
I had a week moment,,,, with a 2 year old QB-8 in the garage which I look at
every day but had not worked much in about a year. I'd been busy with work
and life I had lost interest and motivation to get back into the project.
I decided to sell it.
When my 11 year old daughter found out she was astounded and asked a simple
question "Why are you going to quit? I thought you wanted to build the
plane"
Simply put,,
never give up
So I will build, and not just for me,,
I went out dusted it off and built a simple rewarding thing like build the
front seat,
I'm back on a roll, in the grove, it will fly,
Dan
Lake Stevens WA
-8
Reserved N728RV
I will never give up, it will fly
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
t=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
t=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Make every e-mail and IM count.
<_ MakeCount' target='_new'>Join the i?m Initiative from Microsoft.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Perkinson" <bobperk90658(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Nose Dragger V Tail Dragger was (I will not quit) |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: I will not quit |
In a message dated 05/24/2008 11:59:16 AM Central Daylight Time,
jsflyrv(at)verizon.net writes:
> When my 11 year old daughter found out she was astounded and asked a
> simple question "Why are you going to quit? I thought you wanted to
> build the plane"
>>>>>>>
I made an interesting observation when my slo-build RV-6A departed the Earth
for the first time on January 31, 2004. Five years of hard-fought battles to
construct and pay for that nekkid little newborn were behind me and became
fond memories in my family album. What I witnessed being born that day was a
future of new experiences flying my RV and becoming a "flying" part of the RV
family.
She finished kindergarten (Phase One). Beginning with my Dad, her & I shared
RV grins with many passengers. Call it Elementary. After another year she
was ready for paint and she got her High School diploma. Some additional work
and her interior was finished. Grad School. She finally "debued" at Oshkosh,
Sun&Fun etc. and gathered a few laurels.
Yes, an RV is just a machine. Kinda. It's one you created. Don't neglect
the other members of your family, but don't be deterred if one of them throws a
curve ball at you every now and then.
It's all worth it- you'll see...
Mark
_http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_
(http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/)
**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: I will not quit |
| From: | <shirleyh(at)oceanbroadband.net> |
Reginald - I am 5ft 5 and I fly my RV6. We set the left seat attach hinge
a little further forward than the plans called for, and set the rudders as
far aft as possible. I still needed cushions behind me during the first
few hours of flying, but soon got used to it. I have a friend who is a few
inches shorter than me and he flies the 6 with ease - just sticks a spare
cushion behind him. He does need a little help with forward visoin while
taxiing though!
It took 7 years to complete our RV6 - maybe two years of that time the
project was hardly touched for all the usual reasons. I got discouraged at
times - especially when critics told me 'It will never fly'. May be it was
the cirtics who stung me into wanting to prove them wrong!
Shirley Harding
RV6 over 70 hours now and loving it!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com> |
I know I am not the longest build time at 16 years but I can honestly say I
never even considered giving up. I took long times away from the project to
build a house or restore an airplane but I always kept going. Here is what
I did.
I had a big white board in my shop near the airplane. When I worked if I
came upon something that I needed to remember to do I wrote it on the board.
I had a full list on there and when I completed things I crossed it off. I
did not erase them until I needed space or reworded the list.
Whenever I went to the shop to putter I could see this list calling at me to
knock something out. Many things on this list were only an hour task or
less. If I only had an hour and hadn't worked on the plane for many weeks
it took absolutely no time to just jump on something from the list. Without
it I had spent the first hour of every session trying to figure out where to
start and getting re-familiar with the project.
Make yourself a big nagging list so you don't have to agonize over the whole
project like others have said. You can focus on one little thing at a time.
The number of years it takes will not matter one bit once you fly it.
Good luck!
Tim Bryan
RV-6 Flying
N616TB almost 100 hours now
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 11:01 AM
Subject: RV-List: I will not quit
I had a week moment,,,, with a 2 year old QB-8 in the garage which I look at
every day but had not worked much in about a year. I'd been busy with work
and life I had lost interest and motivation to get back into the project.
I decided to sell it.
When my 11 year old daughter found out she was astounded and asked a simple
question "Why are you going to quit? I thought you wanted to build the
plane"
Simply put,,
never give up
So I will build, and not just for me,,
I went out dusted it off and built a simple rewarding thing like build the
front seat,
I'm back on a roll, in the grove, it will fly,
Dan
Lake Stevens WA
-8
Reserved N728RV
I will never give up, it will fly
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Nose Dragger V Tail Dragger was (I will not quit) |
| From: | "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com> |
RC,
I suggest you get more Tail Wheel time before making that
decision. I received my TW endorsement which is a lot like your
certification... a license to learn to fly. The TW endorsement for most
people is not comprehensive enough to tell MOST people if they will like
flying a TW everyday and in all flying conditions. I personally received
excellent TW instruction before transitioning to my RV-4. After many
hours I decided that the TW was not for me as I really prefer the A
models. I sold my 4 and purchased a 6A and LOVE that decision. Now I
don't want to start a TW/Nose Wheel war as this is a personal decision
but I find the Vans A models absolutely the easiest planes to land "like
butter"... almost every time and in almost all conditions. Part of my
choice had to do with a regular commute that has me flying into a
commercial airport. My first flying out of that place the lineup was
737, 737, RV-4, G550 and no the tower did not warn the G550 of wake
turbulence. As there is a small possibility of a ground loop (even
without damage) I did not want to be the one to close down the active
runway even for a few minutes diverting commercial traffic.
I am sure you will enjoy whatever choice you make and it is your
plane and your dream I was just providing a personal data point.
Robin
RV-4 Sold
RV-6A 425 hours
RV-10 OSH 2008 a possibility
www.painttheweb.com/rv-10
________________________________________________________________________________
I have mounted slightly larger main gear tires on my RV7A as well as a
custom nose gear fork which accommodates a 500 - 5 wheel and tire. So far no
negative issues have surfaced after several take-offs and landings with this
modification. I have not fitted new wheel fairings yet.
For those interested in what I did, see the photo story at:
_http://mesawood.info/myrv7a/building/newgear.htm_
(http://mesawood.info/myrv7a/building/newgear.htm)
Front page:
_http://mesawood.info_ (http://mesawood.info)
Bob Trumpfheller
N67BT 84 hrs.
**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wheeler North" <wnorth(at)sdccd.edu> |
As a two point two-five time airplane builder with attention deficit
disorder life is just a series of twenty minute projects. The goal isn't to
build an airplane, that's just the bonus that comes at the end.
The goal is to create, to master, to become better, to solve, to dream, in
between twenty minute parts, about white puffy clouds drifting past as you
pass over snowy craggy peaks, bright green terrain and yellow fields.
Yet with one in the hangar that I can fly anytime I still dream between
twenty minute parts.
Who the hell cares when it'll be done? I am privileged to live in a special
place that only builders know. That is why I do it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au> |
> Who the hell cares when it'll be done? I am privileged to live in a
> special
> place that only builders know. That is why I do it.
Well said Wheeler!
I secretly curse everyone who says "Built in x years!" when x is always
way shorter than my build time (now 11 years). I often wonder what
sacrifice they made to achieve that build time. Was it a wife, the
children or was it life itself?
Quite frankly the RV-6 is not my first priority but I have never lost an
once of enthusiasm for it or for flying in the 11 years!
It will be done!
Doug Gray
Panel done - now fitting canopy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Reuven Silberman <pilots2(at)yahoo.com> |
Amen Bro - Only in America (and some other English speaking countries).
As a two point two-five time airplane builder with attention deficit
disorder life is just a series of twenty minute projects. The goal isn't to
build an airplane, that's just the bonus that comes at the end.
The goal is to create, to master, to become better, to solve, to dream, in
between twenty minute parts, about white puffy clouds drifting past as you
pass over snowy craggy peaks, bright green terrain and yellow fields.
Yet with one in the hangar that I can fly anytime I still dream between
twenty minute parts.
Who the hell cares when it'll be done? I am privileged to live in a special
place that only builders know. That is why I do it.
"No pressure, no diamonds".
~Thomas Carlyle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Glasgow" <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Density Altitude Peformace |
Does anyone have any performance data for specific Density Altitudes. I
know it would be aircraft specific but it would be useful as a WAG.
I have been using a KOCH chart.
Anyway I'm 180 HP with a cruise prop. But any data for other props might be
useful.
Thanks
Steve Glasgow-Cappy
N123SG RV-8
Cappy's Toy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Electric Trim Travel...? |
Dear Listers,
Working on my RV-4 electric trim, I don't seem to find anywhere where
the actual UP and DOWN travel amounts for the trim tab are called
out. I built the Mac Trim servo installation more or less per the
plans, and I'm getting about 1" UP and 7/8" DOWN travel measured at
the outboard end of the tab with respect to the trailing edge of the
elevator. I've included a couple of pics for reference.
With an O360 and CS Prop, will this be sufficient trim throw?
Thanks for the help!
Matt Dralle
RV-4 N442RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rveighta <rveighta(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RV-8 N220ES FLIES!! |
Just want everyone on the list, especially to the many who have helped out with
answers to my questions, that my RV-8 flew for the first time on May 23rd. Very
few problems (minor oil leak, rudder trim tab needed) Thanks again guys!
Walt Shipley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 N220ES FLIES!! |
Congrats Walt. It is a great feeling I am sure as I still remember.
Tim Bryan
RV-6 Flying
N616TB almost 100 hours now
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rveighta
> Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 7:37 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: RV-8 N220ES FLIES!!
>
>
> Just want everyone on the list, especially to the many who have helped
> out with answers to my questions, that my RV-8 flew for the first time on
> May 23rd. Very few problems (minor oil leak, rudder trim tab needed)
> Thanks again guys!
>
> Walt Shipley
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Full castoring nosewheel - Why not |
Folks,
I'm in the process of installing a larger nosewheel fork on my 6A - kinda
like Bob's recently unveiled craftsmanship.
I am using a new fork made to fit the stock nosegear leg.
In putting this together, I realized that the steering stop doesn't make
full sense to me - especially when I will be pushing my plane back in to the
hangar.
I have seen other planes with full swivel nosewheels (Grumman's come to
mind).
Why not?
Someone educate me!
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <timrvator(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Full castoring nosewheel - Why not |
Prop strike. (prop vs nose wheel/fairing)
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 1000 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> I'm in the process of installing a larger nosewheel fork on my 6A -
> kinda like Bob's recently unveiled craftsmanship.
>
> I am using a new fork made to fit the stock nosegear leg.
>
> In putting this together, I realized that the steering stop doesn't
> make full sense to me - especially when I will be pushing my plane
> back in to the hangar.
>
> I have seen other planes with full swivel nosewheels (Grumman's come
> to mind).
>
> Why not?
>
> Someone educate me!
>
> Ralph Capen
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RV-8 N220ES FLIES!! |
Congrats Walt; I'm jealous!
From: rveighta <rveighta(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 N220ES FLIES!!
Just want everyone on the list, especially to the many who have helped out
with
answers to my questions, that my RV-8 flew for the first time on May 23rd.
Very
few problems (minor oil leak, rudder trim tab needed) Thanks again guys!
Walt Shipley
glen matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MIKE JEFFERSON <grumman1(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Full castoring nosewheel - Why not |
grummans caster 90 deg from center, prop strike target outherwise
mike j.
N9805u> From: recapen(at)earthlink.net> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: RV
-List: Full castoring nosewheel - Why not> Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 07:58:12
.net>> > Folks,> > I'm in the process of installing a larger nosewheel fork
on my 6A - kinda > like Bob's recently unveiled craftsmanship.> > I am usi
ng a new fork made to fit the stock nosegear leg.> > In putting this togeth
er, I realized that the steering stop doesn't make > full sense to me - esp
ecially when I will be pushing my plane back in to the > hangar.> > I have
seen other planes with full swivel nosewheels (Grumman's come to > mind).>
========================> _
===============> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Give to a good cause with every e-mail. Join the i=92m Initiative from Micr
osoft.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty" <jfogarty(at)tds.net> |
I started building my RV9a in Sept. of 2005 and I should be done on the
23rd., I just don't know what month or year! In 2005 I had 3
grandchildren and now I have five, I hoping one of them will catch the
bug and be around to witness the first lift off from kpwc.
Our two year old grandson was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer
called Neuroblastoma at 6 months of age and he is Gramp's best helper in
the shop. Life is a journey, so live it to the fullest, I take the
Cardinal up if I have a little fuel money and love the freedom as I pass
by those beautiful white clouds and laugh at the rest of the folks who
aren't so lucky. For additional information about Logan's fight, please
visit his website at www.caringbridge.org and enter the name "Logan
Fogarty".
I know many of you are going through many of the same types of
challenges in life and it's not always easy to be in the shop, but for
me it is all about the memories in aviation and family! Have a great
day.
Jim Fogarty
fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Full castoring nosewheel - Why not |
Not sure. On my plane however there would be interference between the
forward wheel pant and gear leg fiberglass fairings.
In practice I find pushing the plane backwards to not be a problem.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (400 hrs)
RV-10 (flaps)
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MIKE JEFFERSON
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 9:16 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Full castoring nosewheel - Why not
grummans caster 90 deg from center, prop strike target outherwise
mike j.
N9805u
> From: recapen(at)earthlink.net
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Full castoring nosewheel - Why not
> Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 07:58:12 -0400
>
>
> Folks,
>
> I'm in the process of installing a larger nosewheel fork on my 6A - kinda
> like Bob's recently unveiled craftsmanship.
>
> I am using a new fork made to fit the stock nosegear leg.
>
> In putting this together, I realized that the steering stop doesn't make
> full sense to me - especially when I will be pushing my plane back in to
the
> hangar.
>
> I have seen other planes with full swivel nosewheels (Grumman's come to
> mind).
>
> Why not?
>
> Someone educate me!
>
>
>
>
_____
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