RV-Archive.digest.vol-tn
May 26, 2008 - July 06, 2008
i'm Initiative from Microsoft.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Full castoring nosewheel - Why not |
Hello Ralph,
I think the prop arc would and or could interfere with the nose wheel
assembly under the right (or should it be said wrong ?) conditions.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 4:58 AM
Subject: RV-List: Full castoring nosewheel - Why not
>
> Folks,
>
> I'm in the process of installing a larger nosewheel fork on my 6A - kinda
> like Bob's recently unveiled craftsmanship.
>
> I am using a new fork made to fit the stock nosegear leg.
>
> In putting this together, I realized that the steering stop doesn't make
> full sense to me - especially when I will be pushing my plane back in to
> the hangar.
>
> I have seen other planes with full swivel nosewheels (Grumman's come to
> mind).
>
> Why not?
>
> Someone educate me!
>
> Ralph Capen
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott bilinski <rv8a2001(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 N220ES FLIES!! |
Is this San Diego Walt Shipley?
Scott
----- Original Message ----
From: glen matejcek <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 5:22:06 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 N220ES FLIES!!
Congrats Walt; I'm jealous!
From: rveighta <rveighta(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 N220ES FLIES!!
Just want everyone on the list, especially to the many who have helped out
with
answers to my questions, that my RV-8 flew for the first time on May 23rd.
Very
few problems (minor oil leak, rudder trim tab needed) Thanks again guys!
Walt Shipley
glen matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Full castoring nosewheel - Why not |
In a message dated 05/26/2008 10:40:44 AM Central Daylight Time,
carl.froehlich(at)cox.net writes:
> In putting this together, I realized that the steering stop doesn't make
> full sense to me - especially when I will be pushing my plane back in to
the
> hangar.
>>>
After deciding on a 3-blade prop (Catto), I realized this might be possible.
After shoving Mojo into her hangar many, many times, I'd think it not worth
the trouble. Keep the breakout force to spec, and on pavement it's very easy
to do. Wrestling an -A backwards on grass is another matter altogether- best
done with help, nosewheel in the air, (tail pushed down), and helpers pushing
on wing LEs...
Mark
**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Trim Travel...? |
Matt,
I have 1 1/4" up and down travel on my MAC electric trim tab measured at the
outboard end of the tab.
I have a 6A with O-360 and Hartzel CS prop so may be a little different then
your 4. I don't think I have ever had the trim all the way to the end of
"DOWN" trim travel in flight. But, I do run it all the way to end of "UP"
trim travel (or close to it) while in landing configuration. Have been
thinking about changing center a little to get more up but then my trim
position indicator would be slightly off.
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 6:37 PM
Subject: RV-List: Electric Trim Travel...?
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> Working on my RV-4 electric trim, I don't seem to find anywhere where
> the actual UP and DOWN travel amounts for the trim tab are called
> out. I built the Mac Trim servo installation more or less per the
> plans, and I'm getting about 1" UP and 7/8" DOWN travel measured at
> the outboard end of the tab with respect to the trailing edge of the
> elevator. I've included a couple of pics for reference.
>
> With an O360 and CS Prop, will this be sufficient trim throw?
>
> Thanks for the help!
>
> Matt Dralle
> RV-4 N442RV
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wheeler North" <wnorth(at)sdccd.edu> |
| Subject: | Trim tab and congrats |
Hey Walt,
Congrats, now you can finish building the other 95 percent...
;{)
Matt,
On the trim tab it really doesn't matter, adjust it as a part of the flight
testing.
RVs generally do not need a lot of nose down trim because the planes go down
hill very easily. When trimmed for nose down, VNE full power my tab is only
up about 3/16", and cruise (140kts) level it is at neutral.
Leave it where it is and when you fly it, see what speed the max nose up
(tab down) travel gets you.
Mine is adjusted to give me about 60 kts hands free power off max aft CG
loading, max tab down. The idea is that if I let go of everything it won't
automatically stall when at max nose up trim.
With full fuel and me solo (most forward CG) I have to add a touch of
pressure to hold 70kts on final in max nose up trim, but it will easily stay
below max flaps speed hand free power off.
W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H.Ivan Haecker" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Tensile Strength of Nuts |
Does anyone know if the tensile strength of an all metal anchor nut is
equal to that of an AN 363/365 of the same thread size? For example,
does a K1000-4 anchor nut have the same tensile strength as an AN363-428
all metal stop nut? I notice that the anchor nut has the same footprint
as an MS21042 which the ACS catalog states has the same tensile strength
as an AN363. And as long as I'm asking, does an AN365 elastic stop nut
have the same tensile strength as an AN363 all metal stop nut? Where
would one find this sort of information?
Thanks in advance,
Ivan Haecker -4 1458 hrs. S. Cen. TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Aero-net Reuse... |
Hello Listers,
What is the common opinion on the reuse of those aero-nuts with the
little nylon insert? Seems like once you use one and take it off the
strength of the nylon isn't as good any longer. Is there a
"recommended" number of uses for them?
Thanks,
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Aero-net Reuse... |
Use once and throw away.
Bruce
www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 12:26 PM
Subject: RV-List: Aero-net Reuse...
Hello Listers,
What is the common opinion on the reuse of those aero-nuts with the
little nylon insert? Seems like once you use one and take it off the
strength of the nylon isn't as good any longer. Is there a
"recommended" number of uses for them?
Thanks,
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero-net Reuse... |
Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>
> Hello Listers,
>
> What is the common opinion on the reuse of those aero-nuts with the
> little nylon insert? Seems like once you use one and take it off the
> strength of the nylon isn't as good any longer. Is there a
> "recommended" number of uses for them?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Matt
Matt, the rule-of-thumb I've always heard is as long as the nut still
has enough resistance that you can't thread it on the bolt by hand it is
still serviceable.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Seiders <seiders(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero-net Reuse... |
Ditto, Sam.
Dick
At 01:39 PM 5/28/2008, you wrote:
>
>Matt Dralle wrote:
>>
>>Hello Listers,
>>What is the common opinion on the reuse of those aero-nuts with the
>>little nylon insert? Seems like once you use one and take it off
>>the strength of the nylon isn't as good any longer. Is there a
>>"recommended" number of uses for them?
>>Thanks,
>>Matt
>
>
>Matt, the rule-of-thumb I've always heard is as long as the nut
>still has enough resistance that you can't thread it on the bolt by
>hand it is still serviceable.
>
>Sam Buchanan
>
>
>--
>Release Date: 5/28/2008 7:20 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H.Ivan Haecker" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero-net Reuse... |
People with wood props commonly use the elastic stop nuts. I believe that
most (like me) don't change them every time the bolts are retorqued. It
would sure be a lot of trouble and expense.
Ivan Haecker -4 (with wood prop!) 1458 hrs. S. Cen. TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aero-net Reuse...
>
> Matt Dralle wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello Listers,
>>
>> What is the common opinion on the reuse of those aero-nuts with the
>> little nylon insert? Seems like once you use one and take it off the
>> strength of the nylon isn't as good any longer. Is there a "recommended"
>> number of uses for them?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Matt
>
>
> Matt, the rule-of-thumb I've always heard is as long as the nut still has
> enough resistance that you can't thread it on the bolt by hand it is still
> serviceable.
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aero-net Reuse... |
| From: | "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Doing it and making it right are two entirely different questions.
Paragraph 7-64 f. addresses nylon nuts. Aviation safety can be
expensive. They progressively wear and fail to provide the purpose of a
nut, which is retention. I see it all the time. They most often do not
pass inspection criteria.
Common opinion is what Matt asked for so I will say many things in
Experimental are "penny wise and pound foolish". It is amazing the risk
one will take to save a few pennies. From a Quality Control perspective
it is "Use a new one every time" or check the torque...that is the
trouble. When penny pinching, they will often hold torque 1-3 times
then are trash. I often find nuts being used on experimentals that are
shot and reused by operators that don't have the baseline knowledge
found in the AC43.13.
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of H.Ivan Haecker
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aero-net Reuse...
People with wood props commonly use the elastic stop nuts. I believe
that
most (like me) don't change them every time the bolts are retorqued. It
would sure be a lot of trouble and expense.
Ivan Haecker -4 (with wood prop!) 1458 hrs. S. Cen. TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aero-net Reuse...
>
> Matt Dralle wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello Listers,
>>
>> What is the common opinion on the reuse of those aero-nuts with the
>> little nylon insert? Seems like once you use one and take it off the
>> strength of the nylon isn't as good any longer. Is there a
"recommended"
>> number of uses for them?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Matt
>
>
> Matt, the rule-of-thumb I've always heard is as long as the nut still
has
> enough resistance that you can't thread it on the bolt by hand it is
still
> serviceable.
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Fasching" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OT: Interesting Airventure story |
My new copy of Sport Aviation mentions this project and states pretty
clearly that no member dues would be used. I expect that the revenue from
renting the spaces would ultimately cover the costs. At least it appears
that's the plan.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Fab Bypass Filter |
Starting around late 2003, or so I think, Van's put out a modification for
bypassing the filter in the FAB should the filter get clogged. This is for
the vertical induction carb or FI-servo installations. The original method
utilized a magnet and then a revised version utilized a cable operated by
the pilot. At the time, when I first fabricated the FAB, I modified it
according to the original method using the magnet. Today, as I finish up my
panel and get prepared to put the forward top skin on, I began thinking
about this once more. So, I'm wondering if anyone still has the magnet
version of this modification on their ship and can tell me if the bypass
magnet releases and lets air bypass the filter under NORMAL operating
conditions or not. I'm driving myself crazy trying to determine what the
NORMAL psi differential might be on this door to compare the calculated
force needed to open the door and the amount the door will see during NORMAL
operations. Anyone/everyone have some thoughts on this?
Marty in Brentwood, RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)newwavecomm.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fab Bypass Filter |
Marty, I did not put a bypass door in. I was told that the reason they
changed from the magnet was because it was opening during normal
operations. After giving it some thought I decided that I would put one
in at all. I am not going to be flying in conditions that will cause the
filter to ice over.
----
Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my flying RV7A web page:
http://home.newwavecomm.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm
Emrath wrote:
>
> Starting around late 2003, or so I think, Van's put out a modification for
> bypassing the filter in the FAB should the filter get clogged. This is for
> the vertical induction carb or FI-servo installations. The original method
> utilized a magnet and then a revised version utilized a cable operated by
> the pilot. At the time, when I first fabricated the FAB, I modified it
> according to the original method using the magnet. Today, as I finish up my
> panel and get prepared to put the forward top skin on, I began thinking
> about this once more. So, I'm wondering if anyone still has the magnet
> version of this modification on their ship and can tell me if the bypass
> magnet releases and lets air bypass the filter under NORMAL operating
> conditions or not. I'm driving myself crazy trying to determine what the
> NORMAL psi differential might be on this door to compare the calculated
> force needed to open the door and the amount the door will see during NORMAL
> operations. Anyone/everyone have some thoughts on this?
>
> Marty in Brentwood, RV6A
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H.Ivan Haecker" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero-net Reuse... |
John,
Would you care to provide the inspection criteria you allude to when you say
that you commonly find nuts on experimentals that are shot and should not be
reused? I find that 99% of the nuts used on my rv-4 are not covered in Table
7.2 of AC43.13-1B.
Sincerely,
H. Ivan Haecker -4 1458 hrs. S. Cen TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 7:24 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Aero-net Reuse...
Doing it and making it right are two entirely different questions.
Paragraph 7-64 f. addresses nylon nuts. Aviation safety can be
expensive. They progressively wear and fail to provide the purpose of a
nut, which is retention. I see it all the time. They most often do not
pass inspection criteria.
Common opinion is what Matt asked for so I will say many things in
Experimental are "penny wise and pound foolish". It is amazing the risk
one will take to save a few pennies. From a Quality Control perspective
it is "Use a new one every time" or check the torque...that is the
trouble. When penny pinching, they will often hold torque 1-3 times
then are trash. I often find nuts being used on experimentals that are
shot and reused by operators that don't have the baseline knowledge
found in the AC43.13.
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of H.Ivan Haecker
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aero-net Reuse...
People with wood props commonly use the elastic stop nuts. I believe
that
most (like me) don't change them every time the bolts are retorqued. It
would sure be a lot of trouble and expense.
Ivan Haecker -4 (with wood prop!) 1458 hrs. S. Cen. TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aero-net Reuse...
>
> Matt Dralle wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello Listers,
>>
>> What is the common opinion on the reuse of those aero-nuts with the
>> little nylon insert? Seems like once you use one and take it off the
>> strength of the nylon isn't as good any longer. Is there a
"recommended"
>> number of uses for them?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Matt
>
>
> Matt, the rule-of-thumb I've always heard is as long as the nut still
has
> enough resistance that you can't thread it on the bolt by hand it is
still
> serviceable.
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fab Bypass Filter |
The by-pass door, with magnet, on my O-360 was opening frequently. I suspect
on high MAP settings. It has been fixed closed. I have the cable control for
the door but have chosen not to put in on. I think this was another CYA
issue brought on after Van's became an employee owned business.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:08 PM
Subject: RV-List: Fab Bypass Filter
>
> Starting around late 2003, or so I think, Van's put out a modification for
> bypassing the filter in the FAB should the filter get clogged. This is for
> the vertical induction carb or FI-servo installations. The original
> method
> utilized a magnet and then a revised version utilized a cable operated by
> the pilot. At the time, when I first fabricated the FAB, I modified it
> according to the original method using the magnet. Today, as I finish up
> my
> panel and get prepared to put the forward top skin on, I began thinking
> about this once more. So, I'm wondering if anyone still has the magnet
> version of this modification on their ship and can tell me if the bypass
> magnet releases and lets air bypass the filter under NORMAL operating
> conditions or not. I'm driving myself crazy trying to determine what the
> NORMAL psi differential might be on this door to compare the calculated
> force needed to open the door and the amount the door will see during
> NORMAL
> operations. Anyone/everyone have some thoughts on this?
>
> Marty in Brentwood, RV6A
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com> |
| Subject: | Fab Bypass Filter |
Wow, I didn't realize the door was opening under normal conditions. How did
you determine this? I fly off a grass runway and the thought of all that
crap getting in my engine is a bit frightening. Also how did you (what
method) close it off permanent?
Tim Bryan
RV-6 Flying
N616TB almost 100 hours now
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing
> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 6:16 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fab Bypass Filter
>
>
> The by-pass door, with magnet, on my O-360 was opening frequently. I
> suspect
> on high MAP settings. It has been fixed closed. I have the cable control
> for
> the door but have chosen not to put in on. I think this was another CYA
> issue brought on after Van's became an employee owned business.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:08 PM
> Subject: RV-List: Fab Bypass Filter
>
>
> >
> > Starting around late 2003, or so I think, Van's put out a modification
> for
> > bypassing the filter in the FAB should the filter get clogged. This is
> for
> > the vertical induction carb or FI-servo installations. The original
> > method
> > utilized a magnet and then a revised version utilized a cable operated
> by
> > the pilot. At the time, when I first fabricated the FAB, I modified it
> > according to the original method using the magnet. Today, as I finish
> up
> > my
> > panel and get prepared to put the forward top skin on, I began thinking
> > about this once more. So, I'm wondering if anyone still has the magnet
> > version of this modification on their ship and can tell me if the bypass
> > magnet releases and lets air bypass the filter under NORMAL operating
> > conditions or not. I'm driving myself crazy trying to determine what
> the
> > NORMAL psi differential might be on this door to compare the calculated
> > force needed to open the door and the amount the door will see during
> > NORMAL
> > operations. Anyone/everyone have some thoughts on this?
> >
> > Marty in Brentwood, RV6A
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fab Bypass Filter |
The area where the door made contact with the airbox showed signs of
opening/closing. I semi-permanently closed it by bonding the door to the
airbox with fluorosilicone sealant which is resistant to gasoline. You could
do the same thing with a bit of Proseal from Van's.
I attributed my situation to the O-360 with spark advance from LASAR
ignition which puts out a lot of power on take off. Other engine set-ups may
not have the problem. However, if I remember correctly, Van's went to the
cable control set-up because they also discovered the magnet was not strong
enough to hold the door closed.
RV-6A N118DE
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 7:36 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Fab Bypass Filter
>
> Wow, I didn't realize the door was opening under normal conditions. How
> did
> you determine this? I fly off a grass runway and the thought of all that
> crap getting in my engine is a bit frightening. Also how did you (what
> method) close it off permanent?
>
> Tim Bryan
> RV-6 Flying
> N616TB almost 100 hours now
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
>> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing
>> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 6:16 AM
>> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fab Bypass Filter
>>
>>
>> The by-pass door, with magnet, on my O-360 was opening frequently. I
>> suspect
>> on high MAP settings. It has been fixed closed. I have the cable control
>> for
>> the door but have chosen not to put in on. I think this was another CYA
>> issue brought on after Van's became an employee owned business.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net>
>> To:
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:08 PM
>> Subject: RV-List: Fab Bypass Filter
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Starting around late 2003, or so I think, Van's put out a modification
>> for
>> > bypassing the filter in the FAB should the filter get clogged. This is
>> for
>> > the vertical induction carb or FI-servo installations. The original
>> > method
>> > utilized a magnet and then a revised version utilized a cable operated
>> by
>> > the pilot. At the time, when I first fabricated the FAB, I modified it
>> > according to the original method using the magnet. Today, as I finish
>> up
>> > my
>> > panel and get prepared to put the forward top skin on, I began thinking
>> > about this once more. So, I'm wondering if anyone still has the
>> > magnet
>> > version of this modification on their ship and can tell me if the
>> > bypass
>> > magnet releases and lets air bypass the filter under NORMAL operating
>> > conditions or not. I'm driving myself crazy trying to determine what
>> the
>> > NORMAL psi differential might be on this door to compare the calculated
>> > force needed to open the door and the amount the door will see during
>> > NORMAL
>> > operations. Anyone/everyone have some thoughts on this?
>> >
>> > Marty in Brentwood, RV6A
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wskimike" <wskimike(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero-net Reuse... |
The Navy hardware manual doesn't allow reuse of these nuts on any critical
system like flight controls. Otherwise check the run-on torque for that
specific nut. I think the Navy goes overboard on this issue because if the
nut was installed properly and not overtorqued, the run on torque usually is
good for two or three times. I personally would replace it on critical
systems after one re-use.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Seiders" <seiders(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aero-net Reuse...
>
> Ditto, Sam.
> Dick
>
>
> At 01:39 PM 5/28/2008, you wrote:
>>
>>Matt Dralle wrote:
>>>
>>>Hello Listers,
>>>What is the common opinion on the reuse of those aero-nuts with the
>>>little nylon insert? Seems like once you use one and take it off the
>>>strength of the nylon isn't as good any longer. Is there a "recommended"
>>>number of uses for them?
>>>Thanks,
>>>Matt
>>
>>
>>Matt, the rule-of-thumb I've always heard is as long as the nut still has
>>enough resistance that you can't thread it on the bolt by hand it is still
>>serviceable.
>>
>>Sam Buchanan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Release Date: 5/28/2008 7:20 AM
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Fab Bypass Filter |
We found signs of the door openeing during high power setting on our IO-320
. Once I prosealed the door closed there was a very noticable increase in
manifold pressure during take-offs and the engine ran much better. We deci
ded to leave the door closed and replaced it recently with a new FAB withou
t a door cutout. Much better!!
Mike Robertson
Das Fed> From: densing(at)carolina.rr.com> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com> Subject:
Re: RV-List: Fab Bypass Filter> Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 08:18:47 -0400> > -
e area where the door made contact with the airbox showed signs of > openin
g/closing. I semi-permanently closed it by bonding the door to the > airbox
with fluorosilicone sealant which is resistant to gasoline. You could > do
the same thing with a bit of Proseal from Van's.> I attributed my situatio
n to the O-360 with spark advance from LASAR > ignition which puts out a lo
t of power on take off. Other engine set-ups may > not have the problem. Ho
wever, if I remember correctly, Van's went to the > cable control set-up be
cause they also discovered the magnet was not strong > enough to hold the d
oor closed.> RV-6A N118DE> Dale Ensing> > ----- Original Message ----- > Fr
om: "Tim Bryan" > To: > Sent: Th
ursday, May 29, 2008 7:36 AM> Subject: RE: RV-List: Fab Bypass Filter> > >
, I didn't realize the door was opening under normal conditions. How > > di
d> > you determine this? I fly off a grass runway and the thought of all th
at> > crap getting in my engine is a bit frightening. Also how did you (wha
t> > method) close it off permanent?> >> > Tim Bryan> > RV-6 Flying> > N616
TB almost 100 hours now> >> >> -----Original Message-----> >> From: owner-r
v-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-> >> server(at)matronics.com
] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing> >> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 6:16 AM> >> To:
rv-list(at)matronics.com> >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fab Bypass Filter> >>> >>
>> The by-pass door, with magnet, on my O-360 was opening frequently. I> >
> suspect> >> on high MAP settings. It has been fixed closed. I have the ca
ble control> >> for> >> the door but have chosen not to put in on. I think
this was another CYA> >> issue brought on after Van's became an employee ow
ned business.> >>> >> ----- Original Message -----> >> From: "Emrath" <emra
th(at)comcast.net>> >> To: > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 28
, 2008 10:08 PM> >> Subject: RV-List: Fab Bypass Filter> >>> >>> >> > --> R
V-List message posted by: "Emrath" > >> >> >> > Startin
g around late 2003, or so I think, Van's put out a modification> >> for> >>
> bypassing the filter in the FAB should the filter get clogged. This is>
>> for> >> > the vertical induction carb or FI-servo installations. The ori
ginal> >> > method> >> > utilized a magnet and then a revised version utili
zed a cable operated> >> by> >> > the pilot. At the time, when I first fabr
icated the FAB, I modified it> >> > according to the original method using
the magnet. Today, as I finish> >> up> >> > my> >> > panel and get prepared
to put the forward top skin on, I began thinking> >> > about this once mor
e. So, I'm wondering if anyone still has the > >> > magnet> >> > version of
this modification on their ship and can tell me if the > >> > bypass> >> >
magnet releases and lets air bypass the filter under NORMAL operating> >>
> conditions or not. I'm driving myself crazy trying to determine what> >>
the> >> > NORMAL psi differential might be on this door to compare the calc
ulated> >> > force needed to open the door and the amount the door will see
during> >> > NORMAL> >> > operations. Anyone/everyone have some thoughts o
n this?> >> >> >> > Marty in Brentwood, RV6A> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
===============> > >
_________________________________________________________________
E-mail for the greater good. Join the i=92m Initiative from Microsoft.
ood
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fab Bypass Filter |
| From: | "Reak, Brad" <brad.reak(at)verigy.com> |
When I built my air box (RV7A) I followed the directions and built the
alternate air door with the magnet. After flying the first 20 hours and
reading that Van's had redesigned the alternate air door, I decided that
for my type of flying, the benefit of an alternate air door was
non-existent but the cost of having the door open when it should closed
could be high ($$$). So I sealed the door shut and am not loosing any
sleep over the decision.
Brad Reak - RV7A, 70 hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | Fab Bypass Filter |
I removed the door and magnetic latch and installed one of Van's oil cooler
shutters instead. It looks like it will work fine, when it flies.
Terry
RV-8A
Seattle
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Reak, Brad
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fab Bypass Filter
When I built my air box (RV7A) I followed the directions and built the
alternate air door with the magnet. After flying the first 20 hours and
reading that Van's had redesigned the alternate air door, I decided that for
my type of flying, the benefit of an alternate air door was non-existent but
the cost of having the door open when it should closed could be high ($$$).
So I sealed the door shut and am not loosing any sleep over the decision.
Brad Reak - RV7A, 70 hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Aero-net Reuse... |
At 05:24 PM 5/28/2008 Wednesday, you wrote:
>Doing it and making it right are two entirely different questions.
>Paragraph 7-64 f. addresses nylon nuts.
>>>
>>> What is the common opinion on the reuse of those aero-nuts with the
>>> little nylon insert? Seems like once you use one and take it off the
>
Thank for all the great feedback, everyone!
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <timrvator(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fab Bypass Filter |
There's been one RV-6 fatal accident (that I personally know of) traced
to a snow-clogged air filter. Pilot and passenger killed.
I was lucky to survive the same thing in my RV-6A several years ago.
Van's bypass came out shortly thereafter.
Observations:
- Snow at night or while IMC may not be visible or recognized.
- The air filter can be blocked even when there is absolutely no visible
moisture accumulation on the airframe exterior.
- "I'll remember to use carb heat as a preventative" can be
overlooked/forgotten.
- Once blockage has occurred, the carb heat in an RV (using the carb
heat muff) will not melt the snow sufficient to restore required air
flow into the engine.
Omit a filter bypass at your peril.
Tim
P.S.
Other observations:
- There exists a breed of FAA "investigator" who will manufacture
fantastic stories if the facts don't support his pet views.
- A closed mouth and the AOPA legal services plan can be effective tools
against this sort of FAA fiction writer.
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 1000 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
>
>
> The by-pass door, with magnet, on my O-360 was opening frequently. I
> suspect on high MAP settings. It has been fixed closed. I have the
> cable control for the door but have chosen not to put in on. I think
> this was another CYA issue brought on after Van's became an employee
> owned business.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:08 PM
> Subject: RV-List: Fab Bypass Filter
>
>
>>
>> Starting around late 2003, or so I think, Van's put out a
>> modification for
>> bypassing the filter in the FAB should the filter get clogged. This
>> is for
>> the vertical induction carb or FI-servo installations. The original
>> method
>> utilized a magnet and then a revised version utilized a cable
>> operated by
>> the pilot. At the time, when I first fabricated the FAB, I modified it
>> according to the original method using the magnet. Today, as I
>> finish up my
>> panel and get prepared to put the forward top skin on, I began thinking
>> about this once more. So, I'm wondering if anyone still has the magnet
>> version of this modification on their ship and can tell me if the bypass
>> magnet releases and lets air bypass the filter under NORMAL operating
>> conditions or not. I'm driving myself crazy trying to determine what
>> the
>> NORMAL psi differential might be on this door to compare the calculated
>> force needed to open the door and the amount the door will see during
>> NORMAL
>> operations. Anyone/everyone have some thoughts on this?
>>
>> Marty in Brentwood, RV6A
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fab Bypass Filter |
Well, seems the consensus is to just not use a bypass for the filter based
on the responses. Thanks to everyone.
Marty in Brentwood, RV6A
Starting around late 2003, or so I think, Van's put out a modification
for
bypassing the filter in the FAB should the filter get clogged. This is
for
the vertical induction carb or FI-servo installations. The original
method
utilized a magnet and then a revised version utilized a cable operated
by
the pilot. At the time, when I first fabricated the FAB, I modified
it
according to the original method using the magnet. Today, as I finish
up my
panel and get prepared to put the forward top skin on, I began
thinking
about this once more. So, I'm wondering if anyone still has the
magnet
version of this modification on their ship and can tell me if the
bypass
magnet releases and lets air bypass the filter under NORMAL operating
conditions or not. I'm driving myself crazy trying to determine what
the
NORMAL psi differential might be on this door to compare the
calculated
force needed to open the door and the amount the door will see during
NORMAL
operations. Anyone/everyone have some thoughts on this?
Marty in Brentwood, RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fab Bypass Filter |
Don't fly in snow/cold clouds.
Ron Lee
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Lewis" <timrvator(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fab Bypass Filter
>
> There's been one RV-6 fatal accident (that I personally know of) traced to
> a snow-clogged air filter. Pilot and passenger killed. I was lucky to
> survive the same thing in my RV-6A several years ago. Van's bypass came
> out shortly thereafter.
>
> Observations: - Snow at night or while IMC may not be visible or
> recognized. - The air filter can be blocked even when there is absolutely
> no visible moisture accumulation on the airframe exterior.
> - "I'll remember to use carb heat as a preventative" can be
> overlooked/forgotten. - Once blockage has occurred, the carb heat in an RV
> (using the carb heat muff) will not melt the snow sufficient to restore
> required air flow into the engine.
>
> Omit a filter bypass at your peril.
>
> Tim
>
> P.S.
>
> Other observations:
> - There exists a breed of FAA "investigator" who will manufacture
> fantastic stories if the facts don't support his pet views.
> - A closed mouth and the AOPA legal services plan can be effective tools
> against this sort of FAA fiction writer.
>
> --
> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
> RV-6A N47TD -- 1000 hrs
> RV-10 #40059 under construction
>
>
>>
>>
>> The by-pass door, with magnet, on my O-360 was opening frequently. I
>> suspect on high MAP settings. It has been fixed closed. I have the cable
>> control for the door but have chosen not to put in on. I think this was
>> another CYA issue brought on after Van's became an employee owned
>> business.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net>
>> To:
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:08 PM
>> Subject: RV-List: Fab Bypass Filter
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Starting around late 2003, or so I think, Van's put out a modification
>>> for
>>> bypassing the filter in the FAB should the filter get clogged. This is
>>> for
>>> the vertical induction carb or FI-servo installations. The original
>>> method
>>> utilized a magnet and then a revised version utilized a cable operated
>>> by
>>> the pilot. At the time, when I first fabricated the FAB, I modified it
>>> according to the original method using the magnet. Today, as I finish
>>> up my
>>> panel and get prepared to put the forward top skin on, I began thinking
>>> about this once more. So, I'm wondering if anyone still has the magnet
>>> version of this modification on their ship and can tell me if the bypass
>>> magnet releases and lets air bypass the filter under NORMAL operating
>>> conditions or not. I'm driving myself crazy trying to determine what
>>> the
>>> NORMAL psi differential might be on this door to compare the calculated
>>> force needed to open the door and the amount the door will see during
>>> NORMAL
>>> operations. Anyone/everyone have some thoughts on this?
>>>
>>> Marty in Brentwood, RV6A
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Rowbotham <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 N220ES FLIES!! |
Hi Walt,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!!!!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A (sold and working on # 2)> Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 20:36:34 -0400> Fro
m: rveighta(at)earthlink.net> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: RV-List: RV-
link.net>> > Just want everyone on the list, especially to the many who hav
e helped out with answers to my questions, that my RV-8 flew for the first
time on May 23rd. Very few problems (minor oil leak, rudder trim tab needed
========================> _
==========> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety.
http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_
Refresh_family_safety_052008
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mbick" <mbick(at)carolina.rr.com> |
I just bought a set of Lightspeed ZULU's to try in my plane and after about
3 weeks I found the noise canceling is pretty good, the comfort is
excellent, but the microphone is not very good at all. At full throttle I
can barely hear myself as I call left crosswind. Now fair being fair I
tried a set of Bose headsets to see if the problem might have been the
system itself and all was fine with the Bose. The Bose were better at
eliminating noise through the Mic with their standard Mic Muff than the
Zulu's were with full leather jacketed Mic Muff and with one of the opening
taped shut. The Bose were also a tiny bit better at noise canceling and the
BOSE had a worn out set of ear muffs. I tried e-mailing and calling
Lightspeed several times to see if there was something I could do about the
Mic but so far no response. Again to be fair they are good in most any
other environment my buddy Ron tried them in his plane and said they were
"the bomb", but I have an extremely noisy plane. Has anyone else experienced
the same and a dip switch helped with that? I have it set to mono right now
and default settings.
Thanks
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> |
Mike,
I believe the problem is with your adjustment of the mike, not the mike.
My Zulu is very quiet in all regimes and use of the mike has no effect
at all. If I recall, there is a gain adjustment in the mike that needs
to be lowered. If that doesn't work, contact Zulu as what you are
experiencing is not common at all and is either an adjustment or faulty
mike.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of mbick
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 7:49 AM
Subject: RV-List: ZULU Headsets
I just bought a set of Lightspeed ZULU's to try in my plane and after
about 3 weeks I found the noise canceling is pretty good, the comfort is
excellent, but the microphone is not very good at all. At full throttle
I can barely hear myself as I call left crosswind. Now fair being fair
I tried a set of Bose headsets to see if the problem might have been the
system itself and all was fine with the Bose. The Bose were better at
eliminating noise through the Mic with their standard Mic Muff than the
Zulu's were with full leather jacketed Mic Muff and with one of the
opening taped shut. The Bose were also a tiny bit better at noise
canceling and the BOSE had a worn out set of ear muffs. I tried
e-mailing and calling Lightspeed several times to see if there was
something I could do about the Mic but so far no response. Again to be
fair they are good in most any other environment my buddy Ron tried them
in his plane and said they were "the bomb", but I have an extremely
noisy plane. Has anyone else experienced the same and a dip switch
helped with that? I have it set to mono right now and default settings.
Thanks
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fab Bypass Filter |
Not exactly RV-related, but my Pitts has an alternate air flapper as
standard equipment. Much like the heat flapper on the firewall.
Remember that besides snow/ice, the filters have been blocked by swarms
of bugs, and toilet paper ('ribbon cutting' for the masses that like to
play) and even balloons (again playing with our airplanes) .......and
because I like to play ...... well, I'll have and alternate air source
for my engine. I don't mind an extra cable or fab time if it'll save my
butt because I participated in some activity at a flyin.
YMMV.
Linn
Tim Lewis wrote:
>
> There's been one RV-6 fatal accident (that I personally know of)
> traced to a snow-clogged air filter. Pilot and passenger killed. I
> was lucky to survive the same thing in my RV-6A several years ago.
> Van's bypass came out shortly thereafter.
>
> Observations: - Snow at night or while IMC may not be visible or
> recognized. - The air filter can be blocked even when there is
> absolutely no visible moisture accumulation on the airframe exterior.
> - "I'll remember to use carb heat as a preventative" can be
> overlooked/forgotten. - Once blockage has occurred, the carb heat in
> an RV (using the carb heat muff) will not melt the snow sufficient to
> restore required air flow into the engine.
>
> Omit a filter bypass at your peril.
>
> Tim
>
> P.S.
>
> Other observations:
> - There exists a breed of FAA "investigator" who will manufacture
> fantastic stories if the facts don't support his pet views.
> - A closed mouth and the AOPA legal services plan can be effective
> tools against this sort of FAA fiction writer.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | FS Hartzell Prop |
Posting this for my neighbor. He is buying a new engine and prop for his Mo
oney.
Hartzell Propeller Deal !
Hartzell
Model # HC-C2YK-1BF
Serial # CH1628
74" Diameter Constant Speed Two Blade Propeller
With complete matching polished spinner assembly and stainless steel screws.
Condition: Excellent. No cracks. No leaks. Very Good Balance. Very Good Ap
pearance.
Currently flying on 200 HP Mooney M20E N3265F Ser.# 670058
Last ECI inspection by H&H Propeller 03-2007
All prop documents and maintenance records included.
Price: $2400.00
Contact;
Allen Osborne 704-608-6637 cell
865 Baron Road 704-843-5338 home
Aero Plantation
Waxhaw, N C 28173
Call to arrange inspection or further information.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | FS Hartzell Prop |
Posting this for my neighbor. He is buying a new engine and prop for his Mo
oney.
Hartzell Propeller Deal !
Hartzell
Model # HC-C2YK-1BF
Serial # CH1628
74" Diameter Constant Speed Two Blade Propeller
With complete matching polished spinner assembly and stainless steel screws.
Condition: Excellent. No cracks. No leaks. Very Good Balance. Very Good Ap
pearance.
Currently flying on 200 HP Mooney M20E N3265F Ser.# 670058
Last ECI inspection by H&H Propeller 03-2007
All prop documents and maintenance records included.
Price: $2400.00
Contact;
Allen Osborne 704-608-6637 cell
865 Baron Road 704-843-5338 home
Aero Plantation
Waxhaw, N C 28173
Call to arrange inspection or further information.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ZULU Headsets |
mbick wrote:
The Bose were better at
> eliminating noise through the Mic with their standard Mic Muff than the
> Zulu's were with full leather jacketed Mic Muff and with one of the opening
> taped shut.
BOTH openings MUST be open for a noise-canceling mic to work properly.
I'm not familiar with the Zulu, but the mic on my Lightspeed is
directional, meaning the correct opening must be pointed at the pilot in
order for the noise-canceling to work.
Make sure neither of the openings is covered, the mic is pointed the
correct way, and as has already been mentioned, it might be good to
experiment with different gain settings on the mic.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Divan <n343fd(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ZULU Headsets |
Mike=0A=0AI have the ZULU and love it. Try calling the company and talking
to them I bet it is something simple. I will soon be buying another ZULU fo
r my wife as she keeps taking mine.=0A=0A Mike Divan=0AN64GH - RV6,flying :
)=0ASLOW 7 Builder :(=0AEAA - 577486=0AFREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMER
ICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS!=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: mbic
k =0ATo: rv-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, May 3
0, 2008 4:49:14 AM=0ASubject: RV-List: ZULU Headsets=0A=0A=0AI just bought
a set of Lightspeed =0AZULU=92s to try in my planeand after about =0A3 week
s I found the noise canceling is pretty good, the comfort is excellent, =0A
but the microphone is not very good at all. At full throttle I can barely h
ear =0Amyself as I call left crosswind. =0ANow fair being fair I tried a s
et of Bose headsets to see if the problem might =0Ahave been the system its
elf and all was fine with the Bose. The Bose =0Awere better at eliminating
noise through the Mic with their standard Mic =0AMuff than the Zulu=92s wer
e with full leather jacketed Mic Muff and with one of =0Athe opening taped
shut. The Bose were also a tiny =0Abit better at noise cancelingand =0Athe
BOSE had a worn out set of ear muffs. I tried e-mailing and calling Lights
peed =0Aseveral times to see if there was something I could do about the Mi
c but so far =0Ano response. Again to be fair they =0Aare good in most any
other environment my buddy Ron tried them in his plane and =0Asaid they we
re =93the bomb=94, but I have an extremely noisy plane. Has anyone else =0A
experienced the same and a dip switch helped with that? I have it set to mo
========================0A=0A
=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph Finch" <rgf(at)dcn.davis.ca.us> |
I upgraded to Zulu from the Lightspeed 3G model. I thought the 3G was
pretty good, but the Zulu is in another class altogether. Relatively light,
excellent sound, comfortable. Never tried the Bose but I gotta think the
Zulu is pretty close to it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ZULU Headsets |
In a message dated 05/30/2008 6:54:12 AM Central Daylight Time,
mbick(at)carolina.rr.com writes:
Has anyone else experienced the same and a dip switch helped with that? I
have it set to mono right now and default settings.
>>>
I purchased Zulu at S&F (Moving up from XC Cross-country) and was very happy
with all aspects of performance. Then had opportunity to compare Bose X vs.
Zulu on long cross-country recently, and found them pretty comparable- both 10
on comfort, but seemed the Zulu somewhat better on audio quality (expecially
with XM radio) and possibly a slight edge on ANR. Unfortunately, Zulu recently
quit ANRing. Batts fine, connections fine, but no joy. I could occasionally
tilt them to a specific angle and the ANR would return, then a slight head
motion would stop ANR. Pretty annoying. Sent Lightspeed a service request
three days ago- no response yet...
Mark
**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | FS: Hartzell Prop |
Added Allen's email address: aeroal67(at)carolina.rr.com
and hours on prop. Approx. 760 hours since Overhauled by
H&H Propeller 2-2-99 W O #09282
----- Original Message -----
From: Dale Ensing
To: rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 9:13 AM
Subject: FS Hartzell Prop
Posting this for my neighbor. He is buying a new engine and prop for his
Mooney.
Hartzell
Model # HC-C2YK-1BF
Serial # CH1628
74" Diameter Constant Speed Two Blade Propeller
With complete matching polished spinner assembly and stainless steel scre
ws.
Condition: Excellent. No cracks. No leaks. Very Good Balance. Very Good
Appearance.
Currently flying on 200 HP Mooney M20E N3265F Ser.# 670058
Last ECI inspection by H&H Propeller 03-2007
All prop documents and maintenance records included.
Price: $2400.00
Contact;
Allen Osborne 704-608-6637 cell
865 Baron Road 704-843-5338 home
Aero Plantation
Waxhaw, N C 28173
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> |
Mark,
Sorry to hear about the malfunction. It was probably made on a Monday
morning when the assembly line worker was still overhung from his rice
saki.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: ZULU Headsets
In a message dated 05/30/2008 6:54:12 AM Central Daylight Time,
mbick(at)carolina.rr.com writes:
Has anyone else experienced the same and a dip switch helped with that?
I have it set to mono right now and default settings.
>>>
I purchased Zulu at S&F (Moving up from XC Cross-country) and was very
happy with all aspects of performance. Then had opportunity to compare
Bose X vs. Zulu on long cross-country recently, and found them pretty
comparable- both 10 on comfort, but seemed the Zulu somewhat better on
audio quality (expecially with XM radio) and possibly a slight edge on
ANR. Unfortunately, Zulu recently quit ANRing. Batts fine, connections
fine, but no joy. I could occasionally tilt them to a specific angle
and the ANR would return, then a slight head motion would stop ANR.
Pretty annoying. Sent Lightspeed a service request three days ago- no
response yet...
Mark
_____
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler
Florence" on AOL
<http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod0003000000000
2> Food.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
| Subject: | New Products from TCW Technologies |
Fellow builders,
We are pleased to announce another new product. Universal
Switch- Airspeed Kit. (USW-1)
At Sun-n-Fun many folks got to see our Safety-Trim and
Intelligent Flap Controller system in action. This included a working
demonstration of our products. Aside from the interest generated in
these products we had a lot of inquires regarding the use of our
Airspeed Switch (ASW-1) for the control of other electrical loads in the
airplane. Well this new product addresses that need. USW-1 allows
for the control of electrical loads up to 10 amps based on aircraft
speed. This product provides a "squat switch" like capability and may
be used to enable/disable a transponder.
For all the details please visit our web site.
www.tcwtech.com
Thank you,
Bob Newman
40176 finish kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Garey Wittich <gareywittich2000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Bending Trailing Edge of a "One" Piece Rudder Skin |
Greetings:
A note that might help you. With the 1/8" dowel rod
taped to the inside of the trailing edge of the Rudder
Skin, I placed a towel inside the Skin covering the
Skin Stiffeners. Using Vans recommended wood bending
brake I was able to bend the Skin so it just touched
the Rudder's Spar. It took about 9 compressions of
the Skin to accomplish this - each time it got closer
to touching the Spar. During the bending of the Skin
the Stiffeners did NOT do any damage to the Skin
because of the towel - even though they came in
contact with the Skin during the last 2 or 3
compressions.
The Skin came out flat until the last 1/8" (as
desired) of the trailing edge near the bottom and top
Ribs and the worst was 3/8" along the trailing edge.
To get the desired 1/8" radius, I took my Hand Seamer
(about 2" wide) and put 6 layers of masking tape on
each jaw surface for padding - so as not to dent the
Skin. Placed the Hand Seamer's rear edge about 1/2"
from the trailing edge and gave a gentle squeeze (a
few times as required) where the radius needed to be
better - making sure the Squeezer was applying EQUAL
pressure on both sides of the Skin. This worked well
- no dented Skin.
The Wooden Brake I made was made out of a straight (in
length) 2" X 8" that had been sawed in half to make 2,
2" X 4"s. The bending surfaces were "plained" with a
carpenters adjustable electrical plainer to make them
absolutely "smooth" and covered with Duct Tape.
Hope this helps someone, Garey (Santa Monica, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ZULU Headsets |
| From: | "bluesidedown" <mbick(at)carolina.rr.com> |
Thanks for the suggestions; I did turn the gain and sidetone down on the radio
and it helped but the headsets are not as good as the set of Bose I used especially
the MIC. At full power they warbled (if that is the best way to describe
the condition when the ANR won't keep up) and the Mic is not what I would expect.
Not to say they are bad at all for no other headset besides the Zulu's and
Bose has worked at all in this plane. As for the suggestion to contact Lightspeed
I did try to contact them three times. I left a message on the service
line and I sent two e-mails via their web site. So far nothing and that is why
wrote this to begin with to let others know. You spend that much for a headset
and can't get any customer support?? Anyway they are going back or if someone
waiting for a pair wants them I will sell them for cost and they work great
in a little less noisy cockpit. Like I said before my buddy said they where the
bomb in his Titan. E-mail me (at)mbick@carolina.rr.com if you are interested.
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185693#185693
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ZULU Headsets |
bluesidedown wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the suggestions; I did turn the gain and sidetone down on
> the radio and it helped but the headsets are not as good as the set
> of Bose I used especially the MIC. At full power they warbled (if
> that is the best way to describe the condition when the ANR won't
> keep up) and the Mic is not what I would expect. Not to say they are
> bad at all for no other headset besides the Zulu's and Bose has
> worked at all in this plane. As for the suggestion to contact
> Lightspeed I did try to contact them three times. I left a message on
> the service line and I sent two e-mails via their web site. So far
> nothing and that is why wrote this to begin with to let others know.
> You spend that much for a headset and can't get any customer
> support?? Anyway they are going back or if someone waiting for a pair
> wants them I will sell them for cost and they work great in a little
> less noisy cockpit. Like I said before my buddy said they where
> the bomb in his Titan. E-mail me @mbick@carolina! .rr.com if
> you are interested.
>
> Mike
I don't want to belabor this issue but Lightspeed has a stellar
reputation for customer support. Many, many times (and twice over twelve
years for me) they have rebuilt headsets out of warranty at no charge. I
have never had any problems contacting them and their service has always
been prompt and efficient.
I don't know why you are having problems with the Zulu or customer
service, but from my dealings with Lightspeed, and the reports of
numerous customers on this list from their earliest days with the 15K (I
still have one) your service difficulty is the rare exception.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tailgummer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New Products from TCW Technologies |
Great products, Bob. Thank you for offering to us!!
Jon D'Onofrio RV8
**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Products from TCW Technologies |
THANKS---- Stay tuned.... Oshkosh is not far away. There's more to
come!.
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies
----- Original Message -----
From: Tailgummer(at)aol.com
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: New Products from TCW Technologies
Great products, Bob. Thank you for offering to us!!
Jon D'Onofrio RV8
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler
Florence" on AOL Food.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> |
| Subject: | new aviation services available |
I have started offering builder assistance, parts manufacturing, instrument
panels, electrical and avionics assistance, condition and prebuy
inspections, and other services on my web site. The new page describing some
of my services is available at:
http://www.engalt.com/aviation_services.htm
And in case any of you have invented the next great widget and need someone
to complete the design, make a prototype, or manufacture the completed
product that is also one of the things that I do.
My email is brian(at)engalt.com. I delete about 400 spams a day and quite often
delete good emails when wading through the spams so use a meaningfull
subject line and email me again if you don't hear back in a few days or call
me at 904-743-7802.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Cudney <yenduc(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cowling filler |
I want to fill the texture "pin holes" in my cowl before mounting the
cam locs to the firewall edges of the cowl. I tried Evercoat Feather
Fill primer and Evercoat Metal Glaze and was disappointed with the
results -- got nearly as many "pin holes" as before I made the
applications. I'm thinking of trying micro balloons next. What has
worked best for you guys out there????
Thanks
dave
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: cowling filler |
In a message dated 6/1/2008 10:26:50 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
yenduc(at)sbcglobal.net writes:
I want to fill the texture "pin holes" in my cowl before mounting the cam
locs to the firewall edges of the cowl. I tried Evercoat Feather Fill primer
and Evercoat Metal Glaze and was disappointed with the results -- got nearly
as many "pin holes" as before I made the applications. I'm thinking of
trying micro balloons next. What has worked best for you guys out there????
================================================
Make small batches of a loose slurry of (insert favorite epoxy compound
here) and microballoons and use a plastic spreader to work it into the offending
surfaces. You really want to fill the holes so use a good scrub to get it
into, not on the surfaces. Then sand and prime. I used light coats of DuPont
Uro primer block sanded in between.
-GV
**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cowling filler |
It's not so much what you use but how you apply it. Get an old credit
card or reasonable fact similie, brush or roll on your filler, to a
relatively small area (say 10" x 10" ). it doesnt' have to be a lot of
filler as this step is only going to ofill the pinholes & voids. Then
use the credit card to squeegee the surface with the filler (Metal glaze
will probably set up too fast for this application) . In my experience
Poly Fiber UV smooth Prime works wonderfully and 'dries' within minutes
and is water based. This will fill 99.9% of the pinholes in the 1st
application, and then you can proceed to prime the part/s as desired.
Others have used a razor blade instead of the credit cards, and some use
an epoxy mix as a filler.
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
David Cudney wrote:
> I want to fill the texture "pin holes" in my cowl before mounting the
> cam locs to the firewall edges of the cowl. I tried Evercoat Feather
> Fill primer and Evercoat Metal Glaze and was disappointed with the
> results -- got nearly as many "pin holes" as before I made the
> applications. I'm thinking of trying micro balloons next. What has
> worked best for you guys out there????
>
> Thanks
> dave
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Alley <n320wt(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cowling filler |
Dave, I do composite fabrication for a living mostly on Lancairs. I've been using a product called Wonder-fil from Loehle Aero Coatings. It is applied with a paper towel, allowed to dry and then wipe the excess residue away. This leaves the pin holes and porosity completly filled. Spray urethane primer and the Wonder-fil will wick solvents from the urethane and fully bond. It is compatiable with any urethane paint system on the market but I've found Loehles paints to be superior to anything else I've tried and now its the only system I'll use. See www.loehle.com
BRIAN ALLEY (N320WT)
CARBON FIBER COMPOSITES
101 Caroline Circle
Hurricane, WV 25526
www.carbonfibercomposites.net
304-562-6800 home
304-395-4932 cell
How are you going to win by a nose if you don't stick out your neck?
--- On Mon, 6/2/08, David Cudney <yenduc(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
From: David Cudney <yenduc(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: cowling filler
Date: Monday, June 2, 2008, 1:21 AM
I want to fill the texture "pin holes" in my cowl before mounting the cam
locs to the firewall edges of the cowl. I tried Evercoat Feather Fill primer
and Evercoat Metal Glaze and was disappointed with the results
-- got nearly as many "pin holes" as before I made the applications. I'm thinking of trying micro balloons next.
What
has worked best for you guys out there????
Thanks
dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Fab Bypass Filter |
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCPower.com> |
Marty,
As a side note, while doing a conditional inspection on my RV-6A over
the weekend, I took the airbox apart to clean the air filter. There were
no signs of the trap door having opened.
One interesting issue with my implementation. When I installed my trap
door, I did not implement the change exactly per Van's instructions.
Van's wanted the trap door air supply to come from the lower cowl,
thereby bypassing the air filter AND the Carb heat air source. Because I
fly a lot of IFR, I felt that this was not a good blocked air filter
"Fix" implementation. I didn't like the fact that Van's fix method used
the lower cowl air supply, which does not replace Carb Heat in IFR icing
condition. With his "fix", there would never be a way to de-ice the
blocked air filter while in-flight, and, there was a high potential for
carb icing, causing a secondary engine failure mode while in weather
conditions that would have caused the air filter to become plugged.
Instead, I implemented my trap door to source it's air supply from
the airbox (yes, there is plenty of space between the filter and the
lower level of the airbox..). This method allowed for the continued use
of carb heat if/when the filter was blocked, preventing the secondary
carb ice failure mode, and possibly melting the ice/snow that was
blocking the filter.
I can only surmise that I have not seen any signs of the trap door
opening because there is never enough pressure differential across the
air filter to break the magnets bond. I would also surmise that this
pressure differential is normally considerably less than what might
exist with Van's implementation.
As for the magnet mounting, I didn't see any signs of the mount
moving, or the rivets wearing. It appeared to be in the same condition
as the day I installed it.
The RV-6A now has 868 hrs on it.......
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV (Sale Pending)
RV-7A N924RV (ready for an engine)
________________________________
From: Emrath [mailto:emrath(at)comcast.net]
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 5:44 PM
Subject: RE: Fab Bypass Filter
Interesting..... thanks.
Marty =D2=D3=AC
-----Original Message-----
From: Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR [mailto:Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCPower.com]
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 6:12 AM
To: Emrath
Subject: RE: Fab Bypass Filter
Marty,
I can't say for certain as I have no way to see it during normal
operations. But I can say that the air filter gets dirty over time. So
I'd say that it's staying closed...
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A
________________________________
From: Emrath [mailto:emrath(at)comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 7:07 PM
To: Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR
Subject: RE: Fab Bypass Filter
Are you sure that the door stays shut during normal ops? Seems others
feel like it does not.
Thanks for your thoughts. I've epoxied the magnet into the aluminum
holder and that is epoxied and riveted to the bottom of the FAB, I
can't see how it is going to go anywhere. I am thinking of just taking
it off and patching the hole with some fiberglass cloth.
Marty
-----Original Message-----
From: Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR [mailto:Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCPower.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 6:55 AM
To: emrath(at)comcast.net
Subject: Fab Bypass Filter
Marty,
I still have the magnet, but have secured it better with a pop
rivet....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A
Starting around late 2003, or so I think, Van's put out a modification
for bypassing the filter in the FAB should the filter get clogged. This
is for the vertical induction carb or FI-servo installations. The
original method utilized a magnet and then a revised version utilized a
cable operated by the pilot. At the time, when I first fabricated the
FAB, I modified it according to the original method using the magnet.
Today, as I finish up my panel and get prepared to put the forward top
skin on, I began thinking about this once more. So, I'm wondering if
anyone still has the magnet version of this modification on their ship
and can tell me if the bypass magnet releases and lets air bypass the
filter under NORMAL operating conditions or not. I'm driving myself
crazy trying to determine what the NORMAL psi differential might be on
this door to compare the calculated force needed to open the door and
the amount the door will see during NORMAL operations. Anyone/everyone
have some thoughts on this? Marty in Brentwood, RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rveighta <rveighta(at)earthlink.net> |
Dave, like one of the other guys, I used water based "Smooth Prime" on my RV-8
cowl. I just rolled it on then sanded it down. Most of the smooth prime is sanded
off, but the pinholes are filled in. I wouldn't use anything but this stuff
in the future. Easy to use, easy to clean up.
Walt Shipley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Fab Bypass Filter |
MessageVery interesting Fred. Could you give us a little more info to get a
mental picture of the bypass around the filter? Did you create an addition
al air passage on the fiberglass airbox?
Dale
do not achieve
Instead, I implemented my trap door to source it's air supply from th
e airbox (yes, there is plenty of space between the filter and the lower l
evel of the airbox..). This method allowed for the continued use of carb he
at if/when the filter was blocked, preventing the secondary carb ice failur
e mode, and possibly melting the ice/snow that was blocking the filter.
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV (Sale Pending)
RV-7A N924RV (ready for an engine)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Brake Master Cylinder question |
| From: | "Berthet, Andre G" <andre.g.berthet(at)intel.com> |
I'm in the process of overhauling my Cleveland brake master cylinders
(Model 10-30, old style with external spring). Each cylinder has four
O-rings, 2x 2-110, 1x 2-113, and a smaller one which I'm not sure of the
exact size. It seems to be a size 007, but I would like to be sure. Does
anyone out there know? Thanks.
Andre
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brake Master Cylinder question |
See if this is your system:
http://www.rvdar.com/Brakes/10-30_Master_Cylinder.pdf
Ron Lee
----- Original Message -----
From: Berthet, Andre G
To: RV-List(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 12:18 PM
Subject: RV-List: Brake Master Cylinder question
I'm in the process of overhauling my Cleveland brake master cylinders
(Model 10-30, old style with external spring). Each cylinder has four
O-rings, 2x 2-110, 1x 2-113, and a smaller one which I'm not sure of the
exact size. It seems to be a size 007, but I would like to be sure. Does
anyone out there know? Thanks.
Andre
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brake Master Cylinder question |
I just replaced mine earlier this year. I used:
2-113
2-110
2-006
These are Ace Seal numbers
I used 2-218 Viton o-rings for the brake piston (for heat resistance).
Ron Lee
----- Original Message -----
From: Berthet, Andre G
To: RV-List(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 12:18 PM
Subject: RV-List: Brake Master Cylinder question
I'm in the process of overhauling my Cleveland brake master cylinders
(Model 10-30, old style with external spring). Each cylinder has four
O-rings, 2x 2-110, 1x 2-113, and a smaller one which I'm not sure of the
exact size. It seems to be a size 007, but I would like to be sure. Does
anyone out there know? Thanks.
Andre
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brake Master Cylinder question |
| From: | "aberthet" <andre.g.berthet(at)intel.com> |
Thank you very much Ron.
I'm replacing all my brake O-rings with Viton O-rings and refilling the system
with Aeroshell Fluid 31.
Andre
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185913#185913
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Cudney <yenduc(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowling Filler |
Walt and Deems:
What did you guys use after filled the Smooth Prime? Did you use a
primer and if so what kind? Have you finish painted the cowl? And if
so what did you use? What I'm getting at is were there any
compatibility problems? I was hoping to use a two part polyurethane or
polyester primer and then fly the plane for a year or so before having
it professionally painted. I don't want any compatibility problems
down the line -- so far Smooth Prime sounds like the answer for me.
Clearly heavy spraying with Feather Fill did not work. I'm hoping to
avoid hours of mixing small batches of filler and scraping it in with
a credit card, blade, or squeegee --- will the credit cards still work
after such abuse?
Thanks for your help
dave
On Jun 2, 2008, at 5:07 AM, rveighta wrote:
>
> Dave, like one of the other guys, I used water based "Smooth Prime"
> on my RV-8 cowl. I just rolled it on then sanded it down. Most of
> the smooth prime is sanded off, but the pinholes are filled in. I
> wouldn't use anything but this stuff in the future. Easy to use,
> easy to clean up.
>
> Walt Shipley
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowling Filler |
David, I've used Smooth Prime on all of my fiberglass parts as the
primer (after filling the pin holes).
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2047%20Spinner%20and%20Cowling/slides/DSC04322.html
I haven't painted the cowl yet, supposedly the painter is going to pick
up the project Jul 1 for paint, then final assembly and.........
(The credit card trick really doesn't take that long, when used w/
smoothprime and it insures that the pinholes are filled) . the credit
cards will definately NOT work after use so just send them to me and I
will 'dispose' of them "appropriately" O:-)
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
David Cudney wrote:
>
> Walt and Deems:
>
> What did you guys use after filled the Smooth Prime? Did you use a
> primer and if so what kind? Have you finish painted the cowl? And if
> so what did you use? What I'm getting at is were there any
> compatibility problems? I was hoping to use a two part polyurethane or
> polyester primer and then fly the plane for a year or so before having
> it professionally painted. I don't want any compatibility problems
> down the line -- so far Smooth Prime sounds like the answer for me.
> Clearly heavy spraying with Feather Fill did not work. I'm hoping to
> avoid hours of mixing small batches of filler and scraping it in with
> a credit card, blade, or squeegee --- will the credit cards still work
> after such abuse?
>
> Thanks for your help
>
> dave
>
> On Jun 2, 2008, at 5:07 AM, rveighta wrote:
>
>>
>> Dave, like one of the other guys, I used water based "Smooth Prime"
>> on my RV-8 cowl. I just rolled it on then sanded it down. Most of the
>> smooth prime is sanded off, but the pinholes are filled in. I
>> wouldn't use anything but this stuff in the future. Easy to use, easy
>> to clean up.
>>
>> Walt Shipley
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowling Filer |
I used Smooth Prime when I painted my airplane 8 years or so ago, and have
seen a few little bubbles develop under the paint over the years. This is
similar to what some of the composite guys who used Smooth Prime have
experienced. The latest word from the composite guys (I'm primarily going
from what I've read on a couple of canard forums) is that you need to apply
smooth prime and let it cure for significantly longer than the overnite cure
which was recommended back when I used it. Otherwise, you may see the
little bubbles I mentioned earlier.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "rveighta" <rveighta(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 8:07 AM
Subject: RV-List: Cowling Filer
>
> Dave, like one of the other guys, I used water based "Smooth Prime" on my
> RV-8 cowl. I just rolled it on then sanded it down. Most of the smooth
> prime is sanded off, but the pinholes are filled in. I wouldn't use
> anything but this stuff in the future. Easy to use, easy to clean up.
>
> Walt Shipley
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tom sargent <sarg314(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cowling filler |
I've had mixed results with UV smooth prime. Often it cures with tiny
bubbles in it or has just too much texture. By the time you sand all
the texture out, it's all gone. It worked well on my spinner but it
seemed like it was an awful lot of work. Recently I seemed to get
better results thinning it slightly - about 5% - with water. That may
suppress the bubbles and texturing a bit.
Polyfiber advised using a foam roller (their preferred method
apparently) with the smallest foam cell size possible. I think that did
help. It seems I have to put on about 6 very thin coats, then sand 95%
of it away. Yes, 6. That's what they told me. I do 3, sand it a bit
and then 3 more. And you must let it sit for a couple weeks before
painting to let the water get out of it.
Does any one have any advice on using this stuff? Am I doing it wrong?
Polyfiber doesn't seem to have all the recommended procedures in one
place. Some is on the can, some on their website and some you get by
calling up and asking. Frustrating. But I guess that's fiberglass for
you. It's expensive too.
--
Tom S. - RV-6A
stuck in fiberglass hell.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Fab Bypass Filter |
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCPower.com> |
Dale,
The filter has the metal plate on the bottom side, which has the
bypass door (with magnet). The filter, with this plate, sits above the
floor of the FAB box by about 1/2". If/when the bypass door opens, it
get's its air from within the FAB air box, the same source used to
supply air to the filter. This air also has a source for carb heat....
Nothing special done here except that I didn't follow Van's
instructions to have the bypass get its air from the lower cowl....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV (Sale Pending)
RV-7A N924RV (ready for an engine)
MessageVery interesting Fred. Could you give us a little more info to
get a
mental picture of the bypass around the filter? Did you create an
addition
al air passage on the fiberglass airbox?
Dale
do not achieve
Instead, I implemented my trap door to source it's air
supply from th
e airbox (yes, there is plenty of space between the filter and
the lower l
evel of the airbox..). This method allowed for the continued use
of carb he
at if/when the filter was blocked, preventing the secondary carb
ice failur
e mode, and possibly melting the ice/snow that was blocking the
filter.
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV (Sale Pending)
RV-7A N924RV (ready for an engine)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Fab Bypass Filter |
You must have a different airbox. In my airbox (O-360 carburated) the filte
r sits directly on the fiberglass bottom of the airbox. The filter is a tig
ht fit between the airbox top plate and the molded fiberglass.
Your arrangement sounds like a good idea...just won't work on my airbox.
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR
To: densing(at)carolina.rr.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:48 AM
Subject: RV-List: RE: Fab Bypass Filter
Dale,
The filter has the metal plate on the bottom side, which has the bypas
s door (with magnet). The filter, with this plate, sits above the floor of
the FAB box by about 1/2". If/when the bypass door opens, it get's its air
from within the FAB air box, the same source used to supply air to the filt
er. This air also has a source for carb heat....
Nothing special done here except that I didn't follow Van's instruction
s to have the bypass get its air from the lower cowl....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV (Sale Pending)
RV-7A N924RV (ready for an engine)
MessageVery interesting Fred. Could you give us a little more info to get
a
mental picture of the bypass around the filter? Did you create an
addition
al air passage on the fiberglass airbox?
Dale
do not achieve
Instead, I implemented my trap door to source it's air supply
from th
e airbox (yes, there is plenty of space between the filter and the
lower l
evel of the airbox..). This method allowed for the continued use of
carb he
at if/when the filter was blocked, preventing the secondary carb ic
e failur
e mode, and possibly melting the ice/snow that was blocking the fil
ter.
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV (Sale Pending)
RV-7A N924RV (ready for an engine)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | d wntzl <dwntzl(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hanger House |
Hey Guys,
I am planning a Hanger House in the Florida Panhandle. Originally
planned on a steel
stucture, but it is seeming that wood will be considerably more cost effective.
My question
is if any of you might have a feel for the insurance ramifications of either options??
I would
hate to choose wood only to find out later that insurance is outrageous.
Thanks, David Wentzell, RV6, Port St. Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Cudney <yenduc(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cowling filler |
Tom:
I called and got similar advice on the roller application. How long
did you let it dry between roller applications to get your three plus
three coats? I plan to let it dry for a couple of weeks after the
last sanding before I apply a seal coat of either epoxy or
polyurethane top primer. They stressed that it is necessary to put on
a top coat of a primer that requires a catalyst particularly if you
plan to fly the plane for a while before painting.
Thanks to all of you for your help
dave
On Jun 2, 2008, at 10:43 PM, tom sargent wrote:
>
> I've had mixed results with UV smooth prime. Often it cures with
> tiny bubbles in it or has just too much texture. By the time you
> sand all the texture out, it's all gone. It worked well on my
> spinner but it seemed like it was an awful lot of work. Recently I
> seemed to get better results thinning it slightly - about 5% - with
> water. That may suppress the bubbles and texturing a bit.
>
> Polyfiber advised using a foam roller (their preferred method
> apparently) with the smallest foam cell size possible. I think that
> did help. It seems I have to put on about 6 very thin coats, then
> sand 95% of it away. Yes, 6. That's what they told me. I do 3,
> sand it a bit and then 3 more. And you must let it sit for a couple
> weeks before painting to let the water get out of it.
>
> Does any one have any advice on using this stuff? Am I doing it
> wrong? Polyfiber doesn't seem to have all the recommended
> procedures in one place. Some is on the can, some on their website
> and some you get by calling up and asking. Frustrating. But I
> guess that's fiberglass for you. It's expensive too.
>
> --
> Tom S. - RV-6A
> stuck in fiberglass hell.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hanger House |
Dave,
Most houses in the US and Canada are wood framed. I would expect the costs
of insurance will have more to do with replacement costs than anything else.
The building codes will require a fire separation wall between the hanger
and house, just as they will between a garage and a house. This wall will
most likely be constructed of gypsum wall board on a frame of whatever the
house is framed with, or it could be a concrete wall if the house is
concrete. Wood frame construction can and should be designed to handle
almost any anticipated wind forces, including hurricanes. Often it is best
to see how others are building or have built in the same location to get a
feel for the most cost effective methods.
Terry
RV-8A
Seattle
Architect (housing)
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of d wntzl
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:29 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Hanger House
Hey Guys,
I am planning a Hanger House in the Florida Panhandle. Originally planned
on a steel
stucture, but it is seeming that wood will be considerably more cost
effective. My question
is if any of you might have a feel for the insurance ramifications of either
options?? I would
hate to choose wood only to find out later that insurance is outrageous.
Thanks, David Wentzell, RV6, Port St. Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ollie Washburn" <ollie6a(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hanger House |
Most of the hanger homes on OUR airpark are of cement block
construction and new ones are going in the 450K range. Luckily we got
here a few years ago.
Ollie, Loves Landing Airpark, Central FL>
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 10:29 AM, d wntzl wrote:
> Hey Guys,
>
> I am planning a Hanger House in the Florida Panhandle. Originally planned
> on a steel
>
> stucture, but it is seeming that wood will be considerably more cost
> effective. My question
>
> is if any of you might have a feel for the insurance ramifications of either
> options?? I would
>
> hate to choose wood only to find out later that insurance is outrageous.
>
> Thanks, David Wentzell, RV6, Port St. Joe
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hanger House |
Most on our airpark have built big steel buildings with a partition to
create the house. I could not bring myself to do this (I don't think they
are attractive for residential) so I got a quote for a chip face colored
block building. Surprise, it was cheaper. That is what I have and I love
it. It is attractive, cooler, has flat walls inside, needs no paint, and is
residential. Did I mention it looks much better than the steel warehouse
buildings? :-) Just my opinion of course.
Tim Bryan
RV-6 Flying
N616TB almost 100 hours now
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ollie Washburn
> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 1:14 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Hanger House
>
>
> Most of the hanger homes on OUR airpark are of cement block
> construction and new ones are going in the 450K range. Luckily we got
> here a few years ago.
>
> Ollie, Loves Landing Airpark, Central FL>
>
> On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 10:29 AM, d wntzl wrote:
> > Hey Guys,
> >
> > I am planning a Hanger House in the Florida Panhandle. Originally
> planned
> > on a steel
> >
> > stucture, but it is seeming that wood will be considerably more cost
> > effective. My question
> >
> > is if any of you might have a feel for the insurance ramifications of
> either
> > options?? I would
> >
> > hate to choose wood only to find out later that insurance is outrageous.
> >
> > Thanks, David Wentzell, RV6, Port St. Joe
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tom sargent <sarg314(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cowling filler |
David:
Not very long at all. 10 minutes seems to do it. On the spinner, I
think I put on the 3 coats one night and the other 3 the next night.
David Cudney wrote:
>
> Tom:
>
> I called and got similar advice on the roller application. How long did
> you let it dry between roller applications to get your three plus three
> coats? I plan to let it dry for a couple of weeks after the last
> sanding before I apply a seal coat of either epoxy or polyurethane top
> primer. They stressed that it is necessary to put on a top coat of a
> primer that requires a catalyst particularly if you plan to fly the
> plane for a while before painting.
>
>
> Thanks to all of you for your help
>
> dave
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tom sargent <sarg314(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cowling filler |
I should add that I live in southern arizona, so it's hot and super dry
here (5% humidity yesterday) so things dry out fast.
tom sargent wrote:
>
> David:
> Not very long at all. 10 minutes seems to do it. On the spinner, I
> think I put on the 3 coats one night and the other 3 the next night.
>
> David Cudney wrote:
>>
>> Tom:
>>
>> I called and got similar advice on the roller application. How long
>> did you let it dry between roller applications to get your three plus
>> three coats? I plan to let it dry for a couple of weeks after the
>> last sanding before I apply a seal coat of either epoxy or
>> polyurethane top primer. They stressed that it is necessary to put on
>> a top coat of a primer that requires a catalyst particularly if you
>> plan to fly the plane for a while before painting.
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tracy Crook" <tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hanger House |
I went with concrete block for the bottom (Hangar) with wood frame on top
(house).
Going down the inside stairs in the morming to fetch the paper and
seeing that RV-8 waiting for me - Priceless.
Insurance. Just made the decision to "go bare" after the rates have gone
nuts and doing a little research. Did you know that the payoff on a Vegas
slot machine is WAY better than insurance? I know, I'm nuts too.
Tracy Crook
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 10:29 AM, d wntzl wrote:
> Hey Guys,
>
> I am planning a Hanger House in the Florida Panhandle. Originally
> planned on a steel
>
> stucture, but it is seeming that wood will be considerably more cost
> effective. My question
>
> is if any of you might have a feel for the insurance ramifications of
> either options?? I would
>
> hate to choose wood only to find out later that insurance is outrageous.
>
> Thanks, David Wentzell, RV6, Port St. Joe
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hanger House |
Tracy Crook wrote:
> I went with concrete block for the bottom (Hangar) with wood frame on
> top (house).
>
> Going down the inside stairs in the morming to fetch the paper and
> seeing that RV-8 waiting for me - Priceless.
>
> Insurance. Just made the decision to "go bare" after the rates have
> gone nuts and doing a little research. Did you know that the payoff
> on a Vegas slot machine is WAY better than insurance?
Not for my wife, it isn't!!! Sorry to clutter your inbox, but I just
got back from Vegas!!!
Linn
> I know, I'm nuts too.
> Tracy Crook
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Linebaugh" <jefflinebaugh(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | RE: RV-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 06/03/08 |
Termites are ferocious in FL. It may be difficult for you to get a termite
bond, depending on the area, if you go with wood construction. Also, some
codes require concrete block for hurricane protection. Sounds like you will
need to do your homework on your particular area. As my AF flight commander
always said...avoid the big three: dumb, dangerous or different.
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
From: d wntzl <dwntzl(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re: Hanger House
Hey Guys,
I am planning a Hanger House in the Florida Panhandle.
Originally
planned on a steel
stucture, but it is seeming that wood will be considerably more cost
effective.
My question
is if any of you might have a feel for the insurance ramifications of either
options??
I would
hate to choose wood only to find out later that insurance is outrageous.
Thanks, David Wentzell, RV6, Port St. Joe
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
From: David Cudney <yenduc(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: cowling filler
Tom:
I called and got similar advice on the roller application. How long
did you let it dry between roller applications to get your three plus
three coats? I plan to let it dry for a couple of weeks after the
last sanding before I apply a seal coat of either epoxy or
polyurethane top primer. They stressed that it is necessary to put on
a top coat of a primer that requires a catalyst particularly if you
plan to fly the plane for a while before painting.
Thanks to all of you for your help
dave
On Jun 2, 2008, at 10:43 PM, tom sargent wrote:
>
> I've had mixed results with UV smooth prime. Often it cures with
> tiny bubbles in it or has just too much texture. By the time you
> sand all the texture out, it's all gone. It worked well on my
> spinner but it seemed like it was an awful lot of work. Recently I
> seemed to get better results thinning it slightly - about 5% - with
> water. That may suppress the bubbles and texturing a bit.
>
> Polyfiber advised using a foam roller (their preferred method
> apparently) with the smallest foam cell size possible. I think that
> did help. It seems I have to put on about 6 very thin coats, then
> sand 95% of it away. Yes, 6. That's what they told me. I do 3,
> sand it a bit and then 3 more. And you must let it sit for a couple
> weeks before painting to let the water get out of it.
>
> Does any one have any advice on using this stuff? Am I doing it
> wrong? Polyfiber doesn't seem to have all the recommended
> procedures in one place. Some is on the can, some on their website
> and some you get by calling up and asking. Frustrating. But I
> guess that's fiberglass for you. It's expensive too.
>
> --
> Tom S. - RV-6A
> stuck in fiberglass hell.
>
>
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Hanger House
Dave,
Most houses in the US and Canada are wood framed. I would expect the costs
of insurance will have more to do with replacement costs than anything else.
The building codes will require a fire separation wall between the hanger
and house, just as they will between a garage and a house. This wall will
most likely be constructed of gypsum wall board on a frame of whatever the
house is framed with, or it could be a concrete wall if the house is
concrete. Wood frame construction can and should be designed to handle
almost any anticipated wind forces, including hurricanes. Often it is best
to see how others are building or have built in the same location to get a
feel for the most cost effective methods.
Terry
RV-8A
Seattle
Architect (housing)
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of d wntzl
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:29 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Hanger House
Hey Guys,
I am planning a Hanger House in the Florida Panhandle. Originally planned
on a steel
stucture, but it is seeming that wood will be considerably more cost
effective. My question
is if any of you might have a feel for the insurance ramifications of either
options?? I would
hate to choose wood only to find out later that insurance is outrageous.
Thanks, David Wentzell, RV6, Port St. Joe
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
From: "Ollie Washburn" <ollie6a(at)embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Hanger House
Most of the hanger homes on OUR airpark are of cement block
construction and new ones are going in the 450K range. Luckily we got
here a few years ago.
Ollie, Loves Landing Airpark, Central FL>
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 10:29 AM, d wntzl wrote:
> Hey Guys,
>
> I am planning a Hanger House in the Florida Panhandle. Originally
planned
> on a steel
>
> stucture, but it is seeming that wood will be considerably more cost
> effective. My question
>
> is if any of you might have a feel for the insurance ramifications of
either
> options?? I would
>
> hate to choose wood only to find out later that insurance is outrageous.
>
> Thanks, David Wentzell, RV6, Port St. Joe
>
>
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Hanger House
Most on our airpark have built big steel buildings with a partition to
create the house. I could not bring myself to do this (I don't think they
are attractive for residential) so I got a quote for a chip face colored
block building. Surprise, it was cheaper. That is what I have and I love
it. It is attractive, cooler, has flat walls inside, needs no paint, and is
residential. Did I mention it looks much better than the steel warehouse
buildings? :-) Just my opinion of course.
Tim Bryan
RV-6 Flying
N616TB almost 100 hours now
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ollie Washburn
> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 1:14 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Hanger House
>
>
> Most of the hanger homes on OUR airpark are of cement block
> construction and new ones are going in the 450K range. Luckily we got
> here a few years ago.
>
> Ollie, Loves Landing Airpark, Central FL>
>
> On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 10:29 AM, d wntzl wrote:
> > Hey Guys,
> >
> > I am planning a Hanger House in the Florida Panhandle. Originally
> planned
> > on a steel
> >
> > stucture, but it is seeming that wood will be considerably more cost
> > effective. My question
> >
> > is if any of you might have a feel for the insurance ramifications of
> either
> > options?? I would
> >
> > hate to choose wood only to find out later that insurance is outrageous.
> >
> > Thanks, David Wentzell, RV6, Port St. Joe
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
From: tom sargent <sarg314(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: cowling filler
David:
Not very long at all. 10 minutes seems to do it. On the spinner, I
think I put on the 3 coats one night and the other 3 the next night.
David Cudney wrote:
>
> Tom:
>
> I called and got similar advice on the roller application. How long did
> you let it dry between roller applications to get your three plus three
> coats? I plan to let it dry for a couple of weeks after the last
> sanding before I apply a seal coat of either epoxy or polyurethane top
> primer. They stressed that it is necessary to put on a top coat of a
> primer that requires a catalyst particularly if you plan to fly the
> plane for a while before painting.
>
>
> Thanks to all of you for your help
>
> dave
>
________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
From: tom sargent <sarg314(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: cowling filler
I should add that I live in southern arizona, so it's hot and super dry
here (5% humidity yesterday) so things dry out fast.
tom sargent wrote:
>
> David:
> Not very long at all. 10 minutes seems to do it. On the spinner, I
> think I put on the 3 coats one night and the other 3 the next night.
>
> David Cudney wrote:
>>
>> Tom:
>>
>> I called and got similar advice on the roller application. How long
>> did you let it dry between roller applications to get your three plus
>> three coats? I plan to let it dry for a couple of weeks after the
>> last sanding before I apply a seal coat of either epoxy or
>> polyurethane top primer. They stressed that it is necessary to put on
>> a top coat of a primer that requires a catalyst particularly if you
>> plan to fly the plane for a while before painting.
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Lycoming announces this.
Recognizing global concerns about the immediate and long-term availability
of aviation-grade 100LL fuel, Lycoming Engines _announced_
(http://www.lycoming.com/news-and-events/press-releases/release-06-02-08.jsp) this week that it
is working to get approval for the use of unleaded automotive gasoline for
its standard-compression-ratio O-360 and IO-360 product lines. Ian Walsh,
general manager for Lycoming Engines, told AVweb the approval will not require
any
modification to the engines, the fuel will not need any additives or special
treatment, and there will be no degradation in engine performance. "It's
essentially a paperwork drill, to make this happen," he said. He expects to have
approval from the FAA by this fall, but owners cannot implement the change
until the airplane also gets certified. That is up to the manufacturers, Walsh
said, and he could not estimate how long that would take, but said it is
also essentially a paperwork issue. The engines will require a specific type of
unleaded 93 AKI automotive gas, designated as Euro Norm EN228 (in Europe) or
ASTM D4814 (in the U.S.). This fuel is not difficult to find, Walsh said, but
users must verify that they are getting that particular type -- not just any
unleaded auto gas will do.
The unleaded automotive gas is generally cheaper than avgas and provides an
alternative in areas where avgas is scarce. Also, the continuing use of leaded
avgas provokes environmental concerns. The popular O-360 and IO-360 engines
are found on many GA aircraft, including Cessnas, Mooneys, Diamonds, and
more.
This makes it sound like a slam dunk. Can it really be this easy?
N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 895hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)
**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Sears" <jmsears(at)adelphia.net> |
Gee, golly. I've been flying on mogas since 1986. The
big difference is that the manufacturer is actually saying
it can run on it, now. I don't know what one has to do to
prove fuel meets their standard; but, it may be a nothing
thing to do. I also don't know what their feelings are
concerning mogas with a little ethanol in it. I guess I've
flown over 1900 logged hours behind engines running on
auto gas. My airplanes haven't crashed and burned,
yet.
With the price of gas, these days, manufacturers have to
do something to make it easier for us. Otherwise, their
market will shrink more than it already has. I've logged very
little time in my RV, this year. I've used the money saved
to help feed our other vehicles. Selling my RV may be my
next move. At $30+ per hour fuel cost, it's getting a bit out
of line for my meager fixed income.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
EAA Tech Counselor
----- Original Message -----
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 2:40 AM
Subject: RV-List: Say What?
Lycoming announces this.
Recognizing global concerns about the immediate and long-term
availability of aviation-grade 100LL fuel, Lycoming Engines announced
this week that it is working to get approval for the use of unleaded
automotive gasoline for its standard-compression-ratio O-360 and IO-360
product lines. Ian Walsh, general manager for Lycoming Engines, told
AVweb the approval will not require any modification to the engines, the
fuel will not need any additives or special treatment, and there will be
no degradation in engine performance. "It's essentially a paperwork
drill, to make this happen," he said. He expects to have approval from
the FAA by this fall, but owners cannot implement the change until the
airplane also gets certified. That is up to the manufacturers, Walsh
said, and he could not estimate how long that would take, but said it is
also essentially a paperwork issue. The engines will require a specific
type of unleaded 93 AKI automotive gas, designated as Euro Norm EN228
(in Europe) or ASTM D4814 (in the U.S.). This fuel is not difficult to
find, Walsh said, but users must verify that they are getting that
particular type -- not just any unleaded auto gas will do.
The unleaded automotive gas is generally cheaper than avgas and
provides an alternative in areas where avgas is scarce. Also, the
continuing use of leaded avgas provokes environmental concerns. The
popular O-360 and IO-360 engines are found on many GA aircraft,
including Cessnas, Mooneys, Diamonds, and more.
This makes it sound like a slam dunk. Can it really be this easy?
N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 895hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler
Florence" on AOL Food.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:Lyco announces use of autogas |
| From: | Michael W Stewart <mike.stewart(at)us.ibm.com> |
Seems odd they would not also include the 0/io 540s while they are at i
t.
Mike
Vanremog(at)aol.com
Sent by:
owner-rv-list-ser
To
ver(at)matronics.com rv-list(at)matronics.com
cc
06/05/2008 02:40 Subj
ect
AM RV-List: Say What?
Please respond to
rv-list@matronics
.com
Lycoming announces this.
Recognizing global concerns about the immediate and long-term availabil
ity
of aviation-grade 100LL fuel, Lycoming Engines announced this week that
it
is working to get approval for the use of unleaded automotive gasoline
for
its standard-compression-ratio O-360 and IO-360 product lines. Ian Wals
h,
general manager for Lycoming Engines, told AVweb the approval will not
require any modification to the engines, the fuel will not need any
additives or special treatment, and there will be no degradation in eng
ine
performance. "It's essentially a paperwork drill, to make this happen,"
he
said. He expects to have approval from the FAA by this fall, but owners
cannot implement the change until the airplane also gets certified. Tha
t is
up to the manufacturers, Walsh said, and he could not estimate how long
that would take, but said it is also essentially a paperwork issue. The
engines will require a specific type of unleaded 93 AKI automotive gas,
designated as Euro Norm EN228 (in Europe) or ASTM D4814 (in the U.S.).
This
fuel is not difficult to find, Walsh said, but users must verify that t
hey
are getting that particular type -- not just any unleaded auto gas will
do.
The unleaded automotive gas is generally cheaper than avgas and provide
s an
alternative in areas where avgas is scarce. Also, the continuing use of
leaded avgas provokes environmental concerns. The popular O-360 and IO-
360
engines are found on many GA aircraft, including Cessnas, Mooneys,
Diamonds, and more.
This makes it sound like a slam dunk. Can it really be this easy?
N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 895hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Floren
ce"
on AOL Food.
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com> |
Hi Jim,
I would be interested to know what criteria you use for auto fuel in your
RV-6. Do you check for ethanol first? Are you using premium? Did you do
anything special to the tanks, lines, carb to be able to use this without
concern?
I am running only avgas in my RV-6 for 100 hours now but would love to be
comfortable using auto fuel.
I tried to take this off line, but it bounced back from your email addy.
Tim Bryan
RV-6 Flying
N616TB 100 hours now
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sears
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 5:27 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Say What?
Gee, golly. I've been flying on mogas since 1986. The
big difference is that the manufacturer is actually saying
it can run on it, now. I don't know what one has to do to
prove fuel meets their standard; but, it may be a nothing
thing to do. I also don't know what their feelings are
concerning mogas with a little ethanol in it. I guess I've
flown over 1900 logged hours behind engines running on
auto gas. My airplanes haven't crashed and burned,
yet.
With the price of gas, these days, manufacturers have to
do something to make it easier for us. Otherwise, their
market will shrink more than it already has. I've logged very
little time in my RV, this year. I've used the money saved
to help feed our other vehicles. Selling my RV may be my
next move. At $30+ per hour fuel cost, it's getting a bit out
of line for my meager fixed income.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
EAA Tech Counselor
----- Original Message -----
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 2:40 AM
Subject: RV-List: Say What?
Lycoming announces this.
Recognizing global concerns about the immediate and long-term availability
of aviation-grade 100LL fuel, Lycoming Engines
<http://www.lycoming.com/news-and-events/press-releases/release-06-02-08.jsp
> announced this week that it is working to get approval for the use of
unleaded automotive gasoline for its standard-compression-ratio O-360 and
IO-360 product lines. Ian Walsh, general manager for Lycoming Engines, told
AVweb the approval will not require any modification to the engines, the
fuel will not need any additives or special treatment, and there will be no
degradation in engine performance. "It's essentially a paperwork drill, to
make this happen," he said. He expects to have approval from the FAA by this
fall, but owners cannot implement the change until the airplane also gets
certified. That is up to the manufacturers, Walsh said, and he could not
estimate how long that would take, but said it is also essentially a
paperwork issue. The engines will require a specific type of unleaded 93 AKI
automotive gas, designated as Euro Norm EN228 (in Europe) or ASTM D4814 (in
the U.S.). This fuel is not difficult to find, Walsh said, but users must
verify that they are getting that particular type -- not just any unleaded
auto gas will do.
The unleaded automotive gas is generally cheaper than avgas and provides an
alternative in areas where avgas is scarce. Also, the continuing use of
leaded avgas provokes environmental concerns. The popular O-360 and IO-360
engines are found on many GA aircraft, including Cessnas, Mooneys, Diamonds,
and more.
This makes it sound like a slam dunk. Can it really be this easy?
N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 895hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)
_____
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch
<http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002>
"Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tracy Crook" <tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:Lyco announces use of autogas |
Finally, sanity prevails.
It's always been that easy. Only bureaucrats, myths, sacred cows and
perhaps a lobbyist or two stand in the way of this change. It only took
$130 bbl. oil to pressure them to do the right thing.
Tracy Crook
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 6:48 AM, Michael W Stewart
wrote:
> Seems odd they would not also include the 0/io 540s while they are at it.
> Mike
>
>
> [image: Inactive hide details for Vanremog---06/05/2008 03:24:12
> AM---Lycoming announces this.]Vanremog---06/05/2008 03:24:12 AM---Lycoming
> announces this.
>
>
> *Vanremog(at)aol.com*
> Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>
> 06/05/2008 02:40 AM Please respond to
> rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> To
>
> rv-list(at)matronics.com
> cc
>
>
> Subject
>
> RV-List: Say What?
> Lycoming announces this.
>
> Recognizing global concerns about the immediate and long-term availability
> of aviation-grade 100LL fuel, Lycoming Engines *announced*<http://www.lycoming.com/news-and-events/press-releases/release-06-02-08.jsp>this week that it is working to get approval for the use of unleaded
> automotive gasoline for its standard-compression-ratio O-360 and IO-360
> product lines. Ian Walsh, general manager for Lycoming Engines, told *
> AVweb* the approval will not require any modification to the engines, the
> fuel will not need any additives or special treatment, and there will be no
> degradation in engine performance. "It's essentially a paperwork drill, to
> make this happen," he said. He expects to have approval from the FAA by this
> fall, but owners cannot implement the change until the airplane also gets
> certified. That is up to the manufacturers, Walsh said, and he could not
> estimate how long that would take, but said it is also essentially a
> paperwork issue. The engines will require a specific type of unleaded 93 AKI
> automotive gas, designated as Euro Norm EN228 (in Europe) or ASTM D4814 (in
> the U.S.). This fuel is not difficult to find, Walsh said, but users must
> verify that they are getting that particular type -- not just any unleaded
> auto gas will do.
>
> The unleaded automotive gas is generally cheaper than avgas and provides an
> alternative in areas where avgas is scarce. Also, the continuing use of
> leaded avgas provokes environmental concerns. The popular O-360 and IO-360
> engines are found on many GA aircraft, including Cessnas, Mooneys, Diamonds,
> and more.
>
> This makes it sound like a slam dunk. Can it really be this easy?
>
>
> *N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 895hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)*
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. *Watch "Cooking with Tyler
> Florence" on AOL Food*<http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002>
> .
> *
>
> ====================================
> ?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> ====================================
> u>http://forums.matronics.com
> ====================================
> ion">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ====================================
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
Tim Bryan wrote:
>
> Hi Jim,
>
I'm not Jim, but like him have been a mogas user for years.
>
> I would be interested to know what criteria you use for auto fuel in
> your RV-6.
>
I use mogas in my AA-1B (O-235-C2C) and my Pitts (O-360-A4A). It was
economics in the AA-1B, but it was the lead fouling problem in the
Pitts. For 13 years I hand-propped the Pitts, and lead fouling meant
far more exercise.
>
> Do you check for ethanol first?
>
In Florida, pumps with alcohol were required to post whether or not
alcohol was present. Within the last month, pumps started sporting a
placard that said "may contain up to 10% or less ethanol". Which means
we have to test for it. This is problematic for me. If I test regular
..... both planes will run on regular, but the Pitts will ping on it
when the engine gets hot during aerobatics so I typically use high test
....... and there's alcohol, I can put in my vehicle and search
elsewhere. If I'm looking for high test, then I'll just have to pay the
few pennies for the fuel I tested. Gonna look funny on the credit card.
To further make my life miserable, our governor is working on a bill to
mandate the use of alcohol. Crap!!!
>
> Are you using premium?
>
Only in the Pitts.
>
> Did you do anything special to the tanks, lines, carb to be able to
> use this without concern?
>
There should always be concern. Early on (in the early 80's) before the
signage requirement, I got some alcohol laced mogas that went into the
Pitts. It has a PS-5 pressure carburetor that operates on pressure
differences on many diaphragms. The alcohol ate the old black
diaphragms causing them to crack and leak. After spending a lot of my
mogas money on the rebuild (with red silicone diaphragms) the alcohol
problem went away ..... until now.
>
> I am running only avgas in my RV-6 for 100 hours now but would love to
> be comfortable using auto fuel.
>
Jim will have to reply to that one (RV-6), but you need to do the soul
searching yourself. In this case your mileage MAY differ. I've known
some RV pilots that had issues with vapor pressure in THEIR airplane.
I've known a whole lot more with NO issues with mogas.
>
> I tried to take this off line, but it bounced back from your email addy.
>
I think this discussion should be left to the forum. There are a lot
more mogas users out there with experience and opinions that are
invaluable in this discussion. I hope they chime in.
As an aside, the STCs in place for the certified aircraft prohibit
alcohol in the mogas (and Lycoming does too in its new press release)
for good reason. It attacks rubber and is corrosive to aluminum (and
will soften proseal over time). How corrosive I don't know. Hell, air
is corrosive to aluminum!!! Without alcohol (in the fuel, of course!),
I have no qualms about using it ...... and will probably experiment with
high test in my RV-10 when it flies.
Best of luck Tim ..... and we're all gonna need it in the fuel wars ......
Linn ..... just one data point
>
>
>
> **Tim Bryan**
>
> **RV-6 Flying**
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What? |
Tim,
EAA recently sent me an email stating that they were offering ethanol test kits
for $15 including USPS Priority Mail shipping. Contact the EAA by phone or email.
I purchased one of these test kits. It's simple and easy to use.
Charlie Kuss
PS I try to avoid ethanol in my car, too. I get more than a 3% decrease in MPG
with it.
snipped
> In Florida, pumps with alcohol were required to post whether or not
> alcohol was present. Within the last month, pumps started sporting a
> placard that said "may contain up to 10% or less ethanol". Which means
> we have to test for it. This is problematic for me. If I test regular
snipped
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Meyette" <bmeyette(at)gmail.com> |
The problem I see with this is that it seems to be getting more & more
difficult find auto fuel that isn=92t at least 10% ethanol
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Vanremog(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 2:40 AM
Subject: RV-List: Say What?
Lycoming announces this.
Recognizing global concerns about the immediate and long-term
availability
of aviation-grade 100LL fuel, Lycoming Engines HYPERLINK
"http://www.lycoming.com/news-and-events/press-releases/release-06-02-08.
jsp
" \nannounced this week that it is working to get approval for the use
of
unleaded automotive gasoline for its standard-compression-ratio O-360
and
IO-360 product lines. Ian Walsh, general manager for Lycoming Engines,
told
AVweb the approval will not require any modification to the engines, the
fuel will not need any additives or special treatment, and there will be
no
degradation in engine performance. "It's essentially a paperwork drill,
to
make this happen," he said. He expects to have approval from the FAA by
this
fall, but owners cannot implement the change until the airplane also
gets
certified. That is up to the manufacturers, Walsh said, and he could not
estimate how long that would take, but said it is also essentially a
paperwork issue. The engines will require a specific type of unleaded 93
AKI
automotive gas, designated as Euro Norm EN228 (in Europe) or ASTM D4814
(in
the U.S.). This fuel is not difficult to find, Walsh said, but users
must
verify that they are getting that particular type -- not just any
unleaded
auto gas will do.
The unleaded automotive gas is generally cheaper than avgas and provides
an
alternative in areas where avgas is scarce. Also, the continuing use of
leaded avgas provokes environmental concerns. The popular O-360 and
IO-360
engines are found on many GA aircraft, including Cessnas, Mooneys,
Diamonds,
and more.
This makes it sound like a slam dunk. Can it really be this easy?
N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 895hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)
_____
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. HYPERLINK
"http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod0003000000000
2"
\nWatch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
Checked by AVG.
6/4/2008
4:40 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tracy Crook" <tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What? |
Not that I am in favor of the Ethanol boondoggle but we have to live with
the hand fate deals us. Why not retrofit fuel systems with alcohol tolerant
materials. That's the route I went and except for the open question about
Proseal and alcohol, I think I'm there. So far I have noticed no
deterioration of Proseal in the tanks. It (or possibly just time) did make
my cork gaskets for fuel sender bulkheads start to leak. Never liked them
anyway so I prosealed the bulkheads on without gasket.
If I think I might fly in conditions that might freeze the water absorbed by
ethanol (a very rare occasion) I either verify that I use gas without it or
add some acetone to eliminate freezing problem.
Does anyone have a link to info on Proseal (polysulfide) and alcohol?
Hear-say is all I've heard so far.
Tracy (going flying come what may)
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 12:33 PM, Charles Kuss wrote:
>
> Tim,
> EAA recently sent me an email stating that they were offering ethanol test
> kits for $15 including USPS Priority Mail shipping. Contact the EAA by phone
> or email. I purchased one of these test kits. It's simple and easy to use.
> Charlie Kuss
> PS I try to avoid ethanol in my car, too. I get more than a 3% decrease in
> MPG with it.
>
>
> snipped
> > In Florida, pumps with alcohol were required to post whether or not
> > alcohol was present. Within the last month, pumps started sporting a
> > placard that said "may contain up to 10% or less ethanol". Which means
> > we have to test for it. This is problematic for me. If I test regular
> snipped
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brad Templin <btemplin(at)templinelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What? |
There is another problem most people don't think about with ethanol. They
use it as the octane booster in the fuel, so if you have any water in the t
anks, it bonds with the water and pulls it out of solution. Now you have fu
el that has a MUCH lower octane rating than it did before. It might be OK
if you're using it on a low compression o-320, but the high compression is
not as tolerant. I've had this problem in my Grumman when I accidentally g
ot some with ethanol and had a little water in one tank. Glad I had 100LL
in the other to switch to, 'cause it was not too happy with it at take off/
climb power!
Brad
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Tracy Crook
Sent: Thu 6/5/2008 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What?
Not that I am in favor of the Ethanol boondoggle but we have to live with t
he hand fate deals us. Why not retrofit fuel systems with alcohol tolerant
materials. That's the route I went and except for the open question about
Proseal and alcohol, I think I'm there. So far I have noticed no deterio
ration of Proseal in the tanks. It (or possibly just time) did make my cor
k gaskets for fuel sender bulkheads start to leak. Never liked them anyway
so I prosealed the bulkheads on without gasket.
If I think I might fly in conditions that might freeze the water absorbed b
y ethanol (a very rare occasion) I either verify that I use gas without it
or add some acetone to eliminate freezing problem.
Does anyone have a link to info on Proseal (polysulfide) and alcohol? Hear
-say is all I've heard so far.
Tracy (going flying come what may)
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 12:33 PM, Charles Kuss > wrote:
kuss(at)yahoo.com>>
Tim,
EAA recently sent me an email stating that they were offering ethanol test
kits for $15 including USPS Priority Mail shipping. Contact the EAA by pho
ne or email. I purchased one of these test kits. It's simple and easy to us
e.
Charlie Kuss
PS I try to avoid ethanol in my car, too. I get more than a 3% decrease in
MPG with it.
snipped
> In Florida, pumps with alcohol were required to post whether or not
> alcohol was present. Within the last month, pumps started sporting a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott bilinski <rv8a2001(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What? |
I called the company on my can of Pro-Seal (Flamemaster?)and was told alcoh
ol, auto fuel, JetA, and 100LL-is a non issue.=0A=0A-Scott=0ARV-8a=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Tracy Crook <tracy@rotaryav
iation.com>=0ATo: rv-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, June 5, 2008 11:3
9:12 AM=0ASubject: Re: RV-List: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What?
=0A=0A=0ANot that I am in favor of the Ethanol boondoggle but we have to li
ve with the hand fate deals us.- Why not retrofit fuel systems with alcoh
ol tolerant materials.--That's the route I went and except for the open
question about Proseal and alcohol, I think I'm there.-- So far I have
noticed no deterioration of Proseal in the tanks.- It (or possibly just
time) did make my cork gaskets for fuel sender bulkheads start to leak.-
Never liked them anyway so I prosealed the bulkheads-on without gasket.
=0A-=0AIf I think I might fly in conditions that might freeze the water a
bsorbed by ethanol (a very rare occasion) I either verify that I use gas wi
thout it or add some acetone to eliminate freezing problem.=0A-=0ADoes an
yone have a link to info on-Proseal (polysulfide) and alcohol?- Hear-sa
y is all I've heard so far.--=0A-=0ATracy- (going flying come what
may)=0A=0A=0AOn Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 12:33 PM, Charles Kuss <chaskuss@yahoo.
o.com>=0A=0ATim,=0A-EAA recently sent me an email stating that they were
offering ethanol test kits for $15 including USPS Priority Mail shipping. C
ontact the EAA by phone or email. I purchased one of these test kits. It's
simple and easy to use.=0ACharlie Kuss=0APS I try to avoid ethanol in my ca
r, too. I get more than a 3% decrease in MPG with it.=0A=0A=0Asnipped=0A> I
n Florida, pumps with alcohol were required to post whether or not=0A> alco
hol was present. -Within the last month, pumps started sporting a=0A=0A
====0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What? |
Another option to Proseal (polysulfide) is fluorosilicone sealant. I used D
ow Corning 730 solvent resistant sealant on my wing inspection plates and f
uel gauge sender plates. It has held up well on the aircraft over four year
s and the test sample ( two aluminum pieces bonded together submerged in 10
0LL for eight years) still looks good. The resistance to methanol is 0.7 %
volume swell with -3 points change in durometer hardness.
Dale
Does anyone have a link to info on Proseal (polysulfide) and alcohol? He
ar-say is all I've heard so far.
Tracy (going flying come what may)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "smitty(at)smittysrv.com" <smitty(at)smittysrv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What? |
Looking to the future... I have finished my wings and prosealed everything
in the tanks. If we are eventually faced with the ethanol mix in the gas,
what things need to change in the construction of the fuselage and engine
to handle it? I have just started working on my fuselage.
Smitty
http://SmittysRV.com
Original Message:
-----------------
From: scott bilinski rv8a2001(at)yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 12:45:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: RV-List: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What?
I called the company on my can of Pro-Seal (Flamemaster?)and was told
alcohol, auto fuel, JetA, and 100LLis a non issue.
Scott
RV-8a
----- Original Message ----
From: Tracy Crook <tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 5, 2008 11:39:12 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What?
Not that I am in favor of the Ethanol boondoggle but we have to live with
the hand fate deals us. Why not retrofit fuel systems with alcohol
tolerant materials.That's the route I went and except for the open
question about Proseal and alcohol, I think I'm there. So far I have
noticed no deterioration of Proseal in the tanks. It (or possibly just
time) did make my cork gaskets for fuel sender bulkheads start to leak.
Never liked them anyway so I prosealed the bulkheadson without gasket.
If I think I might fly in conditions that might freeze the water absorbed
by ethanol (a very rare occasion) I either verify that I use gas without it
or add some acetone to eliminate freezing problem.
Does anyone have a link to info onProseal (polysulfide) and alcohol?
Hear-say is all I've heard so far.
Tracy (going flying come what may)
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 12:33 PM, Charles Kuss wrote:
Tim,
EAA recently sent me an email stating that they were offering ethanol test
kits for $15 including USPS Priority Mail shipping. Contact the EAA by
phone or email. I purchased one of these test kits. It's simple and easy to
use.
Charlie Kuss
PS I try to avoid ethanol in my car, too. I get more than a 3% decrease in
MPG with it.
snipped
> In Florida, pumps with alcohol were required to post whether or not
> alcohol was present. Within the last month, pumps started sporting a
==
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web.com - Microsoft Exchange solutions from a leading provider -
http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What? |
Tracy Crook wrote:
snip
> Does anyone have a link to info on Proseal (polysulfide) and alcohol?
> Hear-say is all I've heard so far.
The only 'real' info I have is from my Grumman Gang ...... the AA-5Xs
use proseal in the wet wing much like the RVs. They do leak over time,
and in repairing a leaking wing they noticed that the proseal was 'soft'
..... which is good when you're trying to clean the old proseal to fix a
leak ..... but not a good thing for the whole tank at once. The owner
had used mogas ...... with alcohol as it turned out .....
A definitive point? No, but that's enough info for me. The next time
somebody mixes up a batch of proseal, put a dab in some denatured
alcohol and let us know what happens. Pure alcohol would be worse on
the proseal than rubbing alcohol, I think.
Linn
>
> Tracy (going flying come what may)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What? |
In a message dated 6/5/2008 2:44:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com writes:
Not that I am in favor of the Ethanol boondoggle but we have to live with
the hand fate deals us. Why not retrofit fuel systems with alcohol tolerant
materials. That's the route I went and except for the open question about
Proseal and alcohol, I think I'm there. So far I have noticed no deterioration
of Proseal in the tanks. It (or possibly just time) did make my cork gaskets
for fuel sender bulkheads start to leak. Never liked them anyway so I
prosealed the bulkheads on without gasket.
If I think I might fly in conditions that might freeze the water absorbed by
ethanol (a very rare occasion) I either verify that I use gas without it or
add some acetone to eliminate freezing problem.
Does anyone have a link to info on Proseal (polysulfide) and alcohol?
Hear-say is all I've heard so far.
I've been using premium auto fuel w/alcohol for about 5+ years in my -4. My
0-360 likes it better than avgas (in both winter and summer). Less fouling and
little to no buildup on the exhaust valves. It has been deteriorating the
Proseal in the tanks though. Tough call since my left tank was never built
right in the first place (bad leaks). Signs of possible leakage on the right.
I
noticed that on the PPG site the data sheet on the most common Proseal (I
forget the number. what 'Spruce sells) has no mention of alcohol resistance.
Their Proseal #PS-890 series, however, specifically states 'excellent resistance
to....alcohol...). That is what I'll be trying as I reseal my tanks. Will
probably not know if it works for another 5 years or so.
Jim
**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
Note that the ASTM std they chose does permit alcohol. Also beware that
mogas is a solvent for at least the older varieties of PRC sealant. Some
folks that tried using it in older Mooneys soon developed significant
fuel leaks.
Brian Meyette wrote:
>
> The problem I see with this is that it seems to be getting more & more
> difficult find auto fuel that isnt at least 10% ethanol
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Vanremog(at)aol.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2008 2:40 AM
> *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV-List: Say What?
>
>
>
> Lycoming announces this.
>
>
>
> Recognizing global concerns about the immediate and long-term
> availability of aviation-grade 100LL fuel, Lycoming Engines
> **announced**
> <http://www.lycoming.com/news-and-events/press-releases/release-06-02-08.jsp>
> this week that it is working to get approval for the use of unleaded
> automotive gasoline for its standard-compression-ratio O-360 and
> IO-360 product lines. Ian Walsh, general manager for Lycoming Engines,
> told /AVweb/ the approval will not require any modification to the
> engines, the fuel will not need any additives or special treatment,
> and there will be no degradation in engine performance. "It's
> essentially a paperwork drill, to make this happen," he said. He
> expects to have approval from the FAA by this fall, but owners cannot
> implement the change until the airplane also gets certified. That is
> up to the manufacturers, Walsh said, and he could not estimate how
> long that would take, but said it is also essentially a paperwork
> issue. The engines will require a specific type of unleaded 93 AKI
> automotive gas, designated as Euro Norm EN228 (in Europe) or ASTM
> D4814 (in the U.S.). This fuel is not difficult to find, Walsh said,
> but users must verify that they are getting that particular type --
> not just any unleaded auto gas will do.
>
> The unleaded automotive gas is generally cheaper than avgas and
> provides an alternative in areas where avgas is scarce. Also, the
> continuing use of leaded avgas provokes environmental concerns. The
> popular O-360 and IO-360 engines are found on many GA aircraft,
> including Cessnas, Mooneys, Diamonds, and more.
>
> This makes it sound like a slam dunk. Can it really be this easy?
>
>
>
>
>
> *N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 895hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)*
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jakent(at)unison.ie" <jakent(at)unison.ie> |
| Subject: | Lycomings and auto fuel. |
How about the O-320 and IO-320 ? Will they be included?
John Kent EI-DIY (RV-4)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Lycomings and auto fuel. |
The TCDS (Type Certificate Data Sheet) E-274 already lists many of the O-320 160
HP engines as certificated on "91/96" "Minimum grade aviation gasoline" with
a note to "See latest revision of Lycoming Service Instruction 1070 for alternate
fuel grades".
These engines were certificated on a lower octane fuel than were the 360 engines.
Once they get the longer stroke same bore engines out of the way, it should
be easy for them to follow on with the 320 engines.
See TCDS E-286 for info on the 180 HP 360 engines.
The FAA listing of TCDS can be found at:
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
2,100 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
----------------------------------------
> From: jakent(at)unison.ie
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 05:09:37 -0400
> Subject: RV-List: Lycomings and auto fuel.
>
>
> How about the O-320 and IO-320 ? Will they be included?
> John Kent EI-DIY (RV-4)
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web.com Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft
> Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com> |
| Subject: | Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What? |
Hi Charlie,
Many here at the airpark have been testing the local fuel supply with a baby
bottle with some water in it to a line on the side. Is this an affective
way to do it?
Tim Bryan
RV-6 Flying
N616TB almost 100 hours now
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Kuss
> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 11:33 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What?
>
>
> Tim,
> EAA recently sent me an email stating that they were offering ethanol
> test kits for $15 including USPS Priority Mail shipping. Contact the EAA
> by phone or email. I purchased one of these test kits. It's simple and
> easy to use.
> Charlie Kuss
> PS I try to avoid ethanol in my car, too. I get more than a 3% decrease in
> MPG with it.
>
>
> snipped
> > In Florida, pumps with alcohol were required to post whether or not
> > alcohol was present. Within the last month, pumps started sporting a
> > placard that said "may contain up to 10% or less ethanol". Which means
> > we have to test for it. This is problematic for me. If I test regular
> snipped
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net> |
So far no one weems to know what the ethanol harms. I was told by A&P in
Atl that mogas would eat up seals, havent found that, as my 6a (150hp)
has always been on low oct mogas exept for tank of 100ll in warm months
because of vapor lock. I had to go to LL couple months ago as my usual
place to fill my cans came out with pix of corncobs hanging on pump,
sporting the words "enhanced" with ethanol, whattacrockl! Im afraid
everybody going to it and not all telling about it. Testing for it, you
find it, then what? Several myths about fuel usage, anyone have a line
on what this eathonol can REALY harm? Charlie heathco Fayetteville Ar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What? |
That's the way we did it before the kits were introduced. I used an olive
jar with line drawn on side with a Sharpe. You just need to be able to see
if the "water line" has risen after adding the fuel. The ethanol in the fuel
will mix with the water increasing its volume.
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 8:57 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What?
>
> Hi Charlie,
>
> Many here at the airpark have been testing the local fuel supply with a
> baby
> bottle with some water in it to a line on the side. Is this an affective
> way to do it?
>
> Tim Bryan
> RV-6 Flying
> N616TB almost 100 hours now
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
>> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Kuss
>> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 11:33 AM
>> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What?
>>
>>
>> Tim,
>> EAA recently sent me an email stating that they were offering ethanol
>> test kits for $15 including USPS Priority Mail shipping. Contact the EAA
>> by phone or email. I purchased one of these test kits. It's simple and
>> easy to use.
>> Charlie Kuss
>> PS I try to avoid ethanol in my car, too. I get more than a 3% decrease
>> in
>> MPG with it.
>>
>>
>> snipped
>> > In Florida, pumps with alcohol were required to post whether or not
>> > alcohol was present. Within the last month, pumps started sporting a
>> > placard that said "may contain up to 10% or less ethanol". Which means
>> > we have to test for it. This is problematic for me. If I test regular
>> snipped
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
An alternative question.....
Would those that are using ethanol enhanced car gas in their RV anyway admit to
it and let us know the conditions under which they are using it, the issues that
they have had and what they use as their limitations...???
For instance, we've read that ethanol doesn't degrade proseal or viton seals.
I've been told that my injection system will not be damaged by it. The main issues
that I see remaining are water freezing (blocking the fuel system) and water
not igniting (when it gets into the combustion chamber - both of which could
be eliminated by sumping the tanks and not flying to freezing conditions.
I'm not flying yet and don't know enough about this stuff to experiment myself
either. I'm just thinking that there may be usability under certain conditions.....
My .02.....
-----Original Message-----
>From: Charles Heathco <cheathco(at)cox.net>
>Sent: Jun 6, 2008 9:05 AM
>To: rv-list
>Subject: RV-List: Ethanol
>
>So far no one weems to know what the ethanol harms. I was told by A&P in Atl that
mogas would eat up seals, havent found that, as my 6a (150hp) has always
been on low oct mogas exept for tank of 100ll in warm months because of vapor
lock. I had to go to LL couple months ago as my usual place to fill my cans came
out with pix of corncobs hanging on pump, sporting the words "enhanced" with
ethanol, whattacrockl! Im afraid everybody going to it and not all telling
about it. Testing for it, you find it, then what? Several myths about fuel usage,
anyone have a line on what this eathonol can REALY harm? Charlie heathco Fayetteville
Ar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What? |
Hi Tracy-
How does acetone in the fuel keep the water from freezing, and what effect
does it's presence have on things like seals and pro-seal?
Likewise, does anyone have any insights into the effects of alcohol in the
fuel on tite-seal?
glen matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
> From: "Tracy Crook" <tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com>
>
> If I think I might fly in conditions that might freeze the water absorbed
by
> ethanol (a very rare occasion) I either verify that I use gas without it
or
> add some acetone to eliminate freezing problem.
>
> Tracy (going flying come what may)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What? |
Tim,
As Dale mentioned earlier, you want to note if the volume of the water increases
after adding the gasoline. The method you describe should work. The "kit" is
basically a plastic test tube with graduations on it to show the percent of
ethanol (if any) in the fuel. Any graduated, tall, thin container would work.
Charlie
--- On Fri, 6/6/08, Tim Bryan wrote:
> From: Tim Bryan <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What?
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Friday, June 6, 2008, 8:57 AM
>
>
> Hi Charlie,
>
> Many here at the airpark have been testing the local fuel
> supply with a baby
> bottle with some water in it to a line on the side. Is
> this an affective
> way to do it?
>
> Tim Bryan
> RV-6 Flying
> N616TB almost 100 hours now
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Kuss
> > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 11:33 AM
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was
> Say What?
> >
>
> >
> > Tim,
> > EAA recently sent me an email stating that they were
> offering ethanol
> > test kits for $15 including USPS Priority Mail
> shipping. Contact the EAA
> > by phone or email. I purchased one of these test kits.
> It's simple and
> > easy to use.
> > Charlie Kuss
> > PS I try to avoid ethanol in my car, too. I get more
> than a 3% decrease in
> > MPG with it.
> >
> >
> > snipped
> > > In Florida, pumps with alcohol were required to
> post whether or not
> > > alcohol was present. Within the last month,
> pumps started sporting a
> > > placard that said "may contain up to 10% or
> less ethanol". Which means
> > > we have to test for it. This is problematic for
> me. If I test regular
> > snipped
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "smitty(at)smittysrv.com" <smitty(at)smittysrv.com> |
| Subject: | Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What? |
I read somewhere that you mark a line on a tall test tube (or any other
kind of tube) at the lower end, at the 25% point of the total capacity of
the test tube. Then put water in the test tube up to that mark. Then fill
the rest of the tube with mogas. Shake the tube vigirously and let it sit
for a few minutes. Then go back and see if the water rises above the 25%
mark.
Smitty
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Charles Kuss chaskuss(at)yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:35:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RE: RV-List: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What?
Tim,
As Dale mentioned earlier, you want to note if the volume of the water
increases after adding the gasoline. The method you describe should work.
The "kit" is basically a plastic test tube with graduations on it to show
the percent of ethanol (if any) in the fuel. Any graduated, tall, thin
container would work.
Charlie
--- On Fri, 6/6/08, Tim Bryan wrote:
> From: Tim Bryan <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What?
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Friday, June 6, 2008, 8:57 AM
>
>
> Hi Charlie,
>
> Many here at the airpark have been testing the local fuel
> supply with a baby
> bottle with some water in it to a line on the side. Is
> this an affective
> way to do it?
>
> Tim Bryan
> RV-6 Flying
> N616TB almost 100 hours now
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Kuss
> > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 11:33 AM
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was
> Say What?
> >
>
> >
> > Tim,
> > EAA recently sent me an email stating that they were
> offering ethanol
> > test kits for $15 including USPS Priority Mail
> shipping. Contact the EAA
> > by phone or email. I purchased one of these test kits.
> It's simple and
> > easy to use.
> > Charlie Kuss
> > PS I try to avoid ethanol in my car, too. I get more
> than a 3% decrease in
> > MPG with it.
> >
> >
> > snipped
> > > In Florida, pumps with alcohol were required to
> post whether or not
> > > alcohol was present. Within the last month,
> pumps started sporting a
> > > placard that said "may contain up to 10% or
> less ethanol". Which means
> > > we have to test for it. This is problematic for
> me. If I test regular
> > snipped
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 6/6/2008 9:10:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
cheathco(at)cox.net writes:
So far no one weems to know what the ethanol harms. I was told by A&P in Atl
that mogas would eat up seals, havent found that, as my 6a
It did swell my 'O' ring on the tank cap (RV-4). Switched to Buna-n and
haven't had the problem. Have had the Carb apart and everything looked like new
inside.
Jim
**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 6/6/2008 10:36:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
recapen(at)earthlink.net writes:
Would those that are using ethanol enhanced car gas in their RV anyway admit
to it and let us know the conditions under which they are using it, the
issues that they have had and what they use as their limitations...???
For instance, we've read that ethanol doesn't degrade proseal or viton
seals. I've been told that my injection system will not be damaged by it. The
main issues that I see remaining are water freezing (blocking the fuel system)
and water not igniting (when it gets into the combustion chamber - both of
which could be eliminated by sumping the tanks and not flying to freezing
conditions.
Been using it for 5 to 6 years now. I think it did degrade my Proseal but
that stuff was nearly 20 years old and I hear say the newer blend doesn't
degrade. All other seals except the Vans gas cap 'O' ring seem OK. During my 28
years as an auto mechanic we commonly poured isopropyl alcohol into the gas
tanks of cars to prevent gas line freezing so go figure. I have flown the RV
regularly on 10 degree (at ground level) winter days and the only thing that
froze was me.
Jim
**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven Reynard" <sreynard13(at)gmail.com> |
> degrade. All other seals except the Vans gas cap 'O' ring seem OK. During my
> 28 years as an auto mechanic we commonly poured isopropyl alcohol into the
> gas tanks of cars to prevent gas line freezing so go figure. I have flown
> the RV regularly on 10 degree (at ground level) winter days and the only
> thing that froze was me.
>
> Jim
>
>
When I was stationed in Korea, we used to add a 5 gallons of denatured
alcohol to our tanks (M60A3) to prevent freezing. About the only
effect I noticed was frozen drool from the guys looking at all that
alcohol going to waste. . . .
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tracy Crook" <tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What? |
My understanding is that acetone causes the water & alcohol which separates
out of the gasoline to once again go back into solution and this solution is
no longer prone to freezing. The gas line antifreeze stuff found in
northern autoparts stores is basically acetone. You might refer to the
directions on those bottles to see how much to add to your gas.
I have no idea what the ramifications for Proseal and other tank sealants
are. It is definitly a no-go with sloshing compound that was once (but no
longer) used in Van's tanks.
Tracy
On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 11:10 AM, glen matejcek
wrote:
>
> Hi Tracy-
>
> How does acetone in the fuel keep the water from freezing, and what effect
> does it's presence have on things like seals and pro-seal?
>
> Likewise, does anyone have any insights into the effects of alcohol in the
> fuel on tite-seal?
>
> glen matejcek
> aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
>
>
> > From: "Tracy Crook" <tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com>
> >
> > If I think I might fly in conditions that might freeze the water absorbed
> by
> > ethanol (a very rare occasion) I either verify that I use gas without it
> or
> > add some acetone to eliminate freezing problem.
> >
> > Tracy (going flying come what may)
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
No, ethanol additions will undermine the effort.
John Cox
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Vanremog(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 11:40 PM
Subject: RV-List: Say What?
Lycoming announces this.
Recognizing global concerns about the immediate and long-term
availability of aviation-grade 100LL fuel, Lycoming Engines announced
<http://www.lycoming.com/news-and-events/press-releases/release-06-02-08
.jsp> this week that it is working to get approval for the use of
unleaded automotive gasoline for its standard-compression-ratio O-360
and IO-360 product lines. Ian Walsh, general manager for Lycoming
Engines, told AVweb the approval will not require any modification to
the engines, the fuel will not need any additives or special treatment,
and there will be no degradation in engine performance. "It's
essentially a paperwork drill, to make this happen," he said. He expects
to have approval from the FAA by this fall, but owners cannot implement
the change until the airplane also gets certified. That is up to the
manufacturers, Walsh said, and he could not estimate how long that would
take, but said it is also essentially a paperwork issue. The engines
will require a specific type of unleaded 93 AKI automotive gas,
designated as Euro Norm EN228 (in Europe) or ASTM D4814 (in the U.S.).
This fuel is not difficult to find, Walsh said, but users must verify
that they are getting that particular type -- not just any unleaded auto
gas will do.
The unleaded automotive gas is generally cheaper than avgas and provides
an alternative in areas where avgas is scarce. Also, the continuing use
of leaded avgas provokes environmental concerns. The popular O-360 and
IO-360 engines are found on many GA aircraft, including Cessnas,
Mooneys, Diamonds, and more.
This makes it sound like a slam dunk. Can it really be this easy?
N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 895hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)
________________________________
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler
Florence" on AOL Food
<http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod0003000000000
2>
.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
JFLEISC(at)aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 6/6/2008 9:10:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> cheathco(at)cox.net writes:
>
> So far no one weems to know what the ethanol harms. I was told by
> A&P in Atl that mogas would eat up seals, havent found that, as my
> 6a
>
> It did swell my 'O' ring on the tank cap (RV-4). Switched to Buna-n
> and haven't had the problem. Have had the Carb apart and everything
> looked like new inside.
>
> Jim
The additives in non-alcoholic mogas will cause the old original o-rings
to swell, also. That's the only noticeable side effect of running
non-alcoholic premium mogas that I've noticed.
As Jim says, there's a simple cure. It would probably be wise to check
any 'rubber' gascolator gaskets, etc, also.
Lots of older (20+ years) sealant wasn't alcohol resistant. Most of the
newer stuff I've researched is rated on the data sheets to resist
alcohol & 'all current additives in automotive & aviation fuels'. The
place to go for reliable info is straight to the sealant manufacturer.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What? |
Data point: Flamemaster now offers a pour able sealant (not polysulfide
but compatible with it) that is rated to be resistant to all current
fuel additives, including alcohol. If anyone needs the p/n, let me know
& I'll look in the fridge in the hangar to get it for you.
Charlie
Tracy Crook wrote:
> My understanding is that acetone causes the water & alcohol which
> separates out of the gasoline to once again go back into solution and
> this solution is no longer prone to freezing. The gas line
> antifreeze stuff found in northern autoparts stores is basically
> acetone. You might refer to the directions on those bottles to see
> how much to add to your gas.
>
> I have no idea what the ramifications for Proseal and other tank
> sealants are. It is definitly a no-go with sloshing compound that was
> once (but no longer) used in Van's tanks.
>
> Tracy
>
> On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 11:10 AM, glen matejcek
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> Hi Tracy-
>
> How does acetone in the fuel keep the water from freezing, and
> what effect
> does it's presence have on things like seals and pro-seal?
>
> Likewise, does anyone have any insights into the effects of
> alcohol in the
> fuel on tite-seal?
>
> glen matejcek
> aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
>
>
> > From: "Tracy Crook" <tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com
> >
> >
> > If I think I might fly in conditions that might freeze the water
> absorbed
> by
> > ethanol (a very rare occasion) I either verify that I use gas
> without it
> or
> > add some acetone to eliminate freezing problem.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pcowper(at)webtv.net (Pete Cowper) |
| Subject: | Re: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What? |
The reluctance to approve motor vehicle gasoline may be concerns for
vaporizing at higher altitudes.
When I worked for Union Oil Company back in the 1970's I questioned our
Commercial Sales Engineer from the Brea Research Center about using
aviation gasoline from the airport in a friend's Late Model Sportsman
stock car's Chevy 350 engine.
He said it would work fine, however it could be hard to start when cold
due to having fewer "light ends" (such as butane, propane, pentane)
which provide easy cold weather starting. These are seasonally blended
out in summer months to prevent vapor lock when cold starting is not a
problem and higher BTUs from heavier distillation cuts (down towards
diesel) provide better mileage for summer vacations.
Having been out of the oil industry since 1984, I have no idea what
ethanol does to the high altitude performance.
Pete Cowper
RV-8 #81139 (working on top of fuselage now)
Visalia, California
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What? |
First of all, ethanol with water in it burns just fine. Try lighting a
little brandy or rum and you will see what I mean. Drinking alcohol is
only 40 to 50 percent ethanol, the rest water and flavor. What is put
in gasoline is 99.94 percent ethanol, no moisture. Ethanol does not
phase separate unless you get it nearly saturated with water, AND you
have very cold temps. You will never have fuel line freezing with mogas
that has ethanol. Just as good as the HEET and other gas dry products.
The aromatics in mogas and ethanol are hard on some brands and vintage
of Proseal and will turn it to goo.
They also tend to dry out and harden old fuel system O rings and such.
Tracy Crook wrote:
> My understanding is that acetone causes the water & alcohol which
> separates out of the gasoline to once again go back into solution and
> this solution is no longer prone to freezing. The gas line
> antifreeze stuff found in northern autoparts stores is basically
> acetone. You might refer to the directions on those bottles to see
> how much to add to your gas.
>
> I have no idea what the ramifications for Proseal and other tank
> sealants are. It is definitly a no-go with sloshing compound that was
> once (but no longer) used in Van's tanks.
>
> Tracy
>
> On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 11:10 AM, glen matejcek
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> Hi Tracy-
>
> How does acetone in the fuel keep the water from freezing, and
> what effect
> does it's presence have on things like seals and pro-seal?
>
> Likewise, does anyone have any insights into the effects of
> alcohol in the
> fuel on tite-seal?
>
> glen matejcek
> aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
>
>
> > From: "Tracy Crook" <tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com
> >
> >
> > If I think I might fly in conditions that might freeze the water
> absorbed
> by
> > ethanol (a very rare occasion) I either verify that I use gas
> without it
> or
> > add some acetone to eliminate freezing problem.
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 6/6/2008 10:30:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ceengland(at)bellsouth.net writes:
eventually just the premium mogas. The
engine runs *much* better on premium mogas. With avgas, plugs are fouled
at every startup. (Sub-data point: I lean aggressively & consistently as
soon as I pull power back after climbout.) With premium, plugs are
always clean at startup. (This is a 1700hr+ SMOH engine with compression
in the high 70's but blowing about 1 qt of oil past the chrome
cylinders & out the breather every 3 hrs.) It runs great! No
intermittent 'auto-rough' like I get on avgas. No noticeable evidence of
running hot.
My experience exactly.
Jim
**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Testing for Ethanol in Mogas was Say What? |
During the summer RVP is tightly controlled, especially where ethanol
must be added. The federal reformulated standard requires summer RVP of
7.6. I think winter is generally 9.0, except extreme cold areas where it
can go to 14.0. Adding ethanol raises the base stock RVP by about 1.0.
Some hot areas like Aridzona control it further to 7.0 for summer. By
comparison, avgas is 7.0
Pete Cowper wrote:
>
> The reluctance to approve motor vehicle gasoline may be concerns for
> vaporizing at higher altitudes.
>
> When I worked for Union Oil Company back in the 1970's I questioned our
> Commercial Sales Engineer from the Brea Research Center about using
> aviation gasoline from the airport in a friend's Late Model Sportsman
> stock car's Chevy 350 engine.
>
> He said it would work fine, however it could be hard to start when cold
> due to having fewer "light ends" (such as butane, propane, pentane)
> which provide easy cold weather starting. These are seasonally blended
> out in summer months to prevent vapor lock when cold starting is not a
> problem and higher BTUs from heavier distillation cuts (down towards
> diesel) provide better mileage for summer vacations.
>
> Having been out of the oil industry since 1984, I have no idea what
> ethanol does to the high altitude performance.
>
> Pete Cowper
> RV-8 #81139 (working on top of fuselage now)
> Visalia, California
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tom sargent <sarg314(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | UV SmoothPrime progress |
I recently posted about having very spotty results with UV smooth prime.
My trouble is that it usually dries with so much texture and tiny
bubbles that I have to sand it all off to eliminate the texture, and I'm
back where I started. I have read the instructions on the can, read the
polyfiber web page and talked to their technical help (all of which is
necessary since they don't list all the information in one place!).
I have finally, very late in the game, figured out how to put this stuff
on. I use the small foam roller they recommend (smallest cell size you
can find) but I DO NOT, contrary to directions, use it without dilution.
As it comes out of the can it's too viscous and that's why it dries
with so much texture. Maybe its because I live in a dry climate
(Arizona) and the stuff dries too fast. I don't know.
I just finished covering my old-style polyester RV-6A wingtip with it
diluted 20% with water. I mix 60 cc (~2 oz) smoothprime + 12cc water +
1cc hardener (covers 1 side of wingtip). Goes on smoother. I put 3 thin
coats, waiting 15 minutes in between coats. Then the next day I sand it
a bit (till it feels smoother to the touch) and then repeat the process
- 3 more coats. The next day I sand for real. While I sand, I very
frequently blow off the dust with compressed air and examine with a
small bright flashlight shined at a very low, glancing angle to see when
that spot is smooth and I should stop sanding there. I examine all
pieces this way before I prime. Extremely tedious, but it prevents
finding any surprise pinholes after painting. Did I mention that I hate
fiberglass?
With this method I am able to sand off all the texture and still have
some UV smooth prime left. For those unfamiliar with it, this stuff
isn't an ordinary pinhole filler that you use for spot filling -
Polyfiber says you should put it on thick enough so that when you are
done sanding you have not sanded thru the UV smoothprime at all,
anywhere. It's for making a new surface on the part. It also isn't
primer, contrary to its name. You still have to apply paint primer over
it (wait a couple weeks for it to dry out completely, though).
I'm happy I figured this out, but I'm P.O.ed that I wasted so much time
getting here. All my fiberglass parts except for the cowl and the
wingtips are already done. If I knew this 6 months ago, I would be 2
months ahead of where I am now, maybe 3. Needless to say, I don't have
a very high opinion of their technical assistance or their documentation.
This post is already twice too long. If anyone wants more details about
my process, I will gladly post.
--
Tom Sargent - RV-6A, getting ready to go to the painter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Frederick" <f1boss(at)gmail.com> |
From: tom sargent <sarg314(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: UV SmoothPrime progress
I recently posted about having very spotty results with UV smooth prime.
My trouble is that it usually dries with so much texture and tiny
bubbles that I have to sand it all off to eliminate the texture, and I'm
back where I started. I have read the instructions on the can, read the
polyfiber web page and talked to their technical help (all of which is
necessary since they don't list all the information in one place!).
Hi fellas:
We use a different procedure -- developed over years of fighting this dang
pinhole issue.
1: clean the part thoroughly; let dry
2: dry sand with 150 grit
3: wipe off dust with dry paper towel
Yes, you read it correctly. Leave the dust in the pinholes!
4: Spray with PPG DP-(XX)LF primer (we use the grey, generally); let dry
5: Fill any remaining pinholes with PPG sanding primer, P/N K38, applied
non-reduced with a plastic bondo squeegee. Sand with 220. Wet sand is OK.
The DP-LF primer is very hard, and the K38 is very soft. it is a slightly
different grey, but applying over white might be a better idea so you can
see what is happening. You may need to apply the K38 several times,
depending on your talent with a bondo squeegee.
6: second coat of primer; let dry; final paint.
This process will probably work with any urethane or epoxy primer, and any
soft sanding primer, tho we use the PPG stuff. Remember that you are
actually filling the holes with sanding dust, so don't be too agressive
wiping the parts off!
We also use the K38 along the rivet lines to reduce the ring around the
rivet heads. Squeegee and sand as with the composite parts.
Carry on!
--
Cheers!
Mark Frederick
Team Rocket LP
www.teamrocketaircraft.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com> |
| Subject: | IO 360 A2B Questions |
I have run across an IO 360 A2B engine with about 850 hours on it. It is a
1967 200 HP engine off a Beach Musketeer.
I am wondering if someone could tell me if this would have a hollow
crankshaft to accept a constant speed prop? Also if the engine has been
sitting for awhile (not pickled but indoors) what could one expect the value
to be perhaps as a core. It has all the accessories on it including carb,
alternator, starter, mags, etc.
I know there are lots of variables, but looking for an idea or approximate.
Thanks
Tim Bryan
RV-6 Flying
N616TB 100 hours now
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: IO 360 A2B Questions |
Tim Bryan wrote:
>
> I have run across an IO 360 A2B engine with about 850 hours on it.
Original hours or majored?? If majored, how long ago. Lycomings
guidelines are 2400 hours (I think on this engine) or 12 years.
> It is a 1967 200 HP engine off a Beach Musketeer.
>
> I am wondering if someone could tell me if this would have a hollow
> crankshaft to accept a constant speed prop?
I can't. Lycoming may have a model list on their web site .....
> Also if the engine has been
> sitting for awhile (not pickled but indoors) what could one expect the value
> to be perhaps as a core.
I've bought run-out engines in the $3000 to $4000 range ..... depending
on HP and injected vs carb. For this one, something a little less than
$4000.
Linn
> It has all the accessories on it including carb,
> alternator, starter, mags, etc.
>
> I know there are lots of variables, but looking for an idea or approximate.
> Thanks
>
> Tim Bryan
> RV-6 Flying
> N616TB 100 hours now
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com> |
| Subject: | IO 360 A2B Questions |
Thanks Linn,
I did find a 68 Super Musketeer III for sale with the same engine and a
constant speed prop. I would guess that means this engine has the ability
to do constant speed. Lycoming's site shows the Musketeer is the only
airframe this engine was for.
Somewhere I had seen a chart showing what each part of the model designation
stood for. I cannot find this, so if anybody could point me to this, I
would appreciate it.
Tim Bryan
RV-6 Flying
N616TB 100 hours now
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
> Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 12:19 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: IO 360 A2B Questions
>
>
> Tim Bryan wrote:
> >
> > I have run across an IO 360 A2B engine with about 850 hours on it.
> Original hours or majored?? If majored, how long ago. Lycomings
> guidelines are 2400 hours (I think on this engine) or 12 years.
> > It is a 1967 200 HP engine off a Beach Musketeer.
> >
> > I am wondering if someone could tell me if this would have a hollow
> > crankshaft to accept a constant speed prop?
> I can't. Lycoming may have a model list on their web site .....
> > Also if the engine has been
> > sitting for awhile (not pickled but indoors) what could one expect the
> value
> > to be perhaps as a core.
> I've bought run-out engines in the $3000 to $4000 range ..... depending
> on HP and injected vs carb. For this one, something a little less than
> $4000.
> Linn
> > It has all the accessories on it including carb,
> > alternator, starter, mags, etc.
> >
> > I know there are lots of variables, but looking for an idea or
> approximate.
> > Thanks
> >
> > Tim Bryan
> > RV-6 Flying
> > N616TB 100 hours now
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tom sargent <sarg314(at)comcast.net> |
Mark:
I've noticed that if you just wipe off the dust, it fills the pin
holes. Great idea.
Another radical approach I just heard of from a Vari-Eze builder that I
work with is to sand the fiberglass with pretty coarse sand paper - 36
grit if you can believe it - and then just squeegee on pure epoxy. Then
light sand and repeat as necessary. They claim that 1 to 5 coats of
epoxy is all you need to get a perfect surface. No filler at all.
Loehle Aircraft also has a radically new system that sounds good. If I
ever have to do this again I will definitely do something very different.
I can't escape the sinking feeling that if I just knew what I was
doing, this whole fiberglass extravaganza would have been 10 times easier.
Mark Frederick wrote:
> Hi fellas:
>
> We use a different procedure -- developed over years of fighting this
> dang pinhole issue.
>
> 1: clean the part thoroughly; let dry
> 2: dry sand with 150 grit
> 3: wipe off dust with dry paper towel
>
> Yes, you read it correctly. Leave the dust in the pinholes!
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Hilditch" <wmjack1(at)t3cs.net> |
| Subject: | IO 360 A2B Questions |
I think you should be able to find what you are looking for somewhere on this
site: http://www.prime-mover.org/Engines/index.html
Jack Hilditch
Doing a rivet by rivet survey on my RV-9A project fuselage
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 1:38 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: IO 360 A2B Questions
Thanks Linn,
I did find a 68 Super Musketeer III for sale with the same engine and a
constant speed prop. I would guess that means this engine has the ability
to do constant speed. Lycoming's site shows the Musketeer is the only
airframe this engine was for.
Somewhere I had seen a chart showing what each part of the model designation
stood for. I cannot find this, so if anybody could point me to this, I
would appreciate it.
Tim Bryan
RV-6 Flying
N616TB 100 hours now
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
> Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 12:19 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: IO 360 A2B Questions
>
>
> Tim Bryan wrote:
> >
> > I have run across an IO 360 A2B engine with about 850 hours on it.
> Original hours or majored?? If majored, how long ago. Lycomings
> guidelines are 2400 hours (I think on this engine) or 12 years.
> > It is a 1967 200 HP engine off a Beach Musketeer.
> >
> > I am wondering if someone could tell me if this would have a hollow
> > crankshaft to accept a constant speed prop?
> I can't. Lycoming may have a model list on their web site .....
> > Also if the engine has been
> > sitting for awhile (not pickled but indoors) what could one expect the
> value
> > to be perhaps as a core.
> I've bought run-out engines in the $3000 to $4000 range ..... depending
> on HP and injected vs carb. For this one, something a little less than
> $4000.
> Linn
> > It has all the accessories on it including carb,
> > alternator, starter, mags, etc.
> >
> > I know there are lots of variables, but looking for an idea or
> approximate.
> > Thanks
> >
> > Tim Bryan
> > RV-6 Flying
> > N616TB 100 hours now
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IO 360 A2B Questions |
In a message dated 6/8/2008 1:12:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
n616tb(at)btsapps.com writes:
am wondering if someone could tell me if this would have a hollow
crankshaft to accept a constant speed prop? Also if the engine has been
sitting for awhile (not pickled but indoors) what could one expect the value
to be perhaps as a core. It has all the accessories on it including carb,
alternator, starter, mags, etc.
According to the chart it is supposed to be injected not carbureted and it
has a fixed pitch.
Jim
**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob J." <rocketbob(at)gmail.com> |
Guys, I have a friend who trains new employees at Scaled Composites, and
this is what they do. The technique they use to fill pinholes is called a
"resin wipe". It goes like this: sand with 36 grit paper. Squeegee pure
epoxy on then immediately squeegee it off. Repeat 3-5 times, right after
the epoxy gets tacky from the previous coat. Wet sand with 150-220 grit.
Then spray DP-48 followed by a guide coat of something darker, and simply
sand the darker color off.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying F1 under const.
On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 2:07 PM, tom sargent wrote:
>
> Mark:
> I've noticed that if you just wipe off the dust, it fills the pin
> holes. Great idea.
>
> Another radical approach I just heard of from a Vari-Eze builder
> that I work with is to sand the fiberglass with pretty coarse sand paper -
> 36 grit if you can believe it - and then just squeegee on pure epoxy. Then
> light sand and repeat as necessary. They claim that 1 to 5 coats of epoxy
> is all you need to get a perfect surface. No filler at all.
>
> Loehle Aircraft also has a radically new system that sounds good.
> If I ever have to do this again I will definitely do something very
> different.
>
> I can't escape the sinking feeling that if I just knew what I was
> doing, this whole fiberglass extravaganza would have been 10 times easier.
>
>
> Mark Frederick wrote:
>
>> Hi fellas:
>> We use a different procedure -- developed over years of fighting this
>> dang pinhole issue.
>> 1: clean the part thoroughly; let dry
>> 2: dry sand with 150 grit
>> 3: wipe off dust with dry paper towel
>> Yes, you read it correctly. Leave the dust in the pinholes!
>>
>
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tom sargent <sarg314(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: UV SmoothPrime progress |
linn Walters wrote:
>
> Excellent post Tom!!! You said " If anyone wants more details about my
> process, I will gladly post." Please do. Those of us faced with all
> the FG parts will be indebted to you.
Well, OK, Linn, since you asked.
I don't claim to be any kind of expert with fiber glass, nor am I
convinced that Polyfiber's UV Smooth Prime is the best way to finish a
piece. But I seem to be well down this road and it's too late to change
horses. Were I doing another plane, I'd re-examine the whole approach.
A note on sand paper: All the sanding I do is with 400 grit "open coat"
sand paper. You could use coarser stuff to start with, but you
definitely want 400 when you get down to the latter stages of sanding.
Polyfiber would even suggest 600 grit. My painter says that's too fine.
Open coat sand paper loads up much less than the regular stuff. I buy
it at the auto body supply store. Some of sales personnel might not
know what "open coat" means (the grains of abrasive are further apart).
If it doesn't say "wet or dry" on the package is it probably open coat
and it will say open coat on the back of the sheets (well, the 3M stuff
does, anyway).
Polyfiber's recommendations, the ones I agree with:
1- use a small foam roller (3 or 4 inches long, ~1" diameter) with the
smallest foam cell size you can find. I bought mine in paint dept. at
home depot, plus a small "tray" to use with it. It's made for painting
woodwork, I think.
2- put on a large number of very thin coats rather than a small number
of real thick ones. I put 6 or 7.
3- Don't try to fill huge pits with this stuff. It's for pin holes and
surface roughness.
4- You want to put enough on so that after you have sanded it smooth you
have not sanded thru the UV smooth prime completely anywhere. UV Smooth
Prime is intended to completely re-surface a part, not spot fill it. You
can get away with sanding thru it as long as what's underneath is nice
and smooth.
My Process is all of the above plus:
1- dilute the stuff 20% with water. I find this reduces the texture and
the number of captive bubbles in the hardened product to manageable
levels. (Polyfiber says use it as it comes out of the can. I think
that is too viscous. It may be impacted by the fact that I live in dry
Arizona and that may make it dry too fast.)
2- After mixing it up, let it sit for a few minutes for the bubbles to
come out. Diluting facilitates this too. It has good pot life - several
hours. I hang the roller over the edge of the tray and cover the whole
thing with plastic wrap so it doesn't dry out while I wait.
3- Roll on the first coat. Cover the container and roller with plastic
wrap to prevent it drying out and wait at least 15 minutes. Do not try
to make it a thick coat. Thin is better. You want uniform thickness
over the surface. I suspect that rolling slowly produces less texture
than rolling fast, but I can't swear to it. Don't let any thick runs or
drips stay long enough to dry. After it hardens, it's impossible to sand
those away without sanding completely thru the adjacent UV smoothprime.
Which is another way of saying, make it uniform.
4- Apply second coat, cover tray & roller and wait at least 15 minutes
to dry, and then repeat with a 3rd coat. You could do a 4th coat if you
want or have enough of the stuff left.
5- Next day (or several hours later) I sand that a little. No more than
4 or 5 seconds in one spot. You don't want to remove much, just to
reduce the texture. Blow off all the dust carefully. Then apply 3 more
coats as above.
6- Next day I start sanding with the 400 grit. It produces massive
amounts of dust - use a filter mask. After the texture is greatly
reduced so that it is not obvious, I start checking the surface very
frequently as I sand. I sand for 5 seconds, blow the dust off with
compressed air and inspect the surface with a bright flashlight (1 watt
LED) aimed nearly parallel to the surface. This, combined with my
extreme near-sightedness that allows me to see clearly 4 inches from the
surface, reveals every tiny little pit and pin hole. If you are not
blessed with eyes that have optical infinity just off the end of your
nose, I recommend you get one of those dual magnifiers with a head
strap. Believe me you will see surface features so small that they do
not matter to the paint.
7- The surface won't be perfect. Generally you sand it until all the
pin holes are gone (you can actually partly see thru the UV smoothprime
at this point - if I have sharpie markings on the surface I can see them
pretty clearly at this stage), but there will be a few pin holes that
look deep even at this point. Leave those. They're probably too deep to
sand off. You can try to re-coat those with UV Smoothprime (I hear
that undiluted UV smooth prime squeegeed with a credit card works well,
but it's hard to mix a tiny amount). I use Polyfiber Superfill (Blue
goo). I mix a very small amount (2g filler + 1g hardener), put a small
dab on the pin hole with a popsicle stick and then use a safety razor
blade as a squeegee to squeegee it over the pin hole. Don't squeegee
real hard. Use moderate pressure so you leave a thin film over the area
of the pin hole. If you did it just right, you'll have a spot the size
of a nickel that you can spot-sand away easily leaving the filled pin
hole behind. Again, inspect with the flashlight and near-sighted eyes.
8- You spray primer over the UV smoothprime, but let it dry out for 2
weeks first. Painting too soon may produce bubbles in the paint months
later.
--
Tom S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Sears" <jmsears(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: UV SmoothPrime progress |
I see the SmoothPrime debates continue. I've
been deleting most of the notes on this because I
made my inputs, long ago. However, I'll add one
response. I had one experience with the stuff
and would not recommend it to anyone. I have to
admit that I didn't dry sand mine because the manual
said nothing about having to dry sand it to make it
work. It made the tiny bubbles that when sanded
made little holes where the bubbles had been. I
ended up losing about a week's work on my glass
parts and sanded every bit of the stuff off my airplane.
I ended up with the Dupont fast fill primer that I think
was mentioned in this thread. It filled nicely, could
be worked into pinholes with the finger, etc. It just
worked so much better. With the first coat, that I
was able to sand with wet-dry sandpaper with no
little bubbles popping up, I got most of the pin holes.
A second coat in areas I missed got the rest. It took
very little time to do this, when compared to the mess
I got into with the SmoothPrime. As for letting the
stuff set for two weeks, this may not be good if one
has a paint shop tied up, as was my experience.
Each of us finds something that works for us; but, I
simply can't recommend SmoothPrime to anyone. I
prefer to recommend a fast fill primer like the Dupont
product that works well the first time. Since most of
us wet sand our paint, it's obvious we'd probably
prefer a primer product we can wet sand, as well. If
we were building a glass airplane, the story may be
different. Well, maybe not. I may still prefer the
Dupont product over what I went through with the
SmoothPrime process. Another nice thing about the
Dupont product is that it can also be used to fill in
those little dings you've done to the skins. It can
fill up to about a 1/16"; so, that would take care of
most of the problems. I don't think you can do that
with SmoothPrime.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
EAA Tech Counselor
----- Original Message -----
From: "tom sargent" <sarg314(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 11:33 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: UV SmoothPrime progress
>
> linn Walters wrote:
>>
>> Excellent post Tom!!! You said " If anyone wants more details about my
>> process, I will gladly post." Please do. Those of us faced with all
>> the FG parts will be indebted to you.
>
> Well, OK, Linn, since you asked.
>
> I don't claim to be any kind of expert with fiber glass, nor am I
> convinced that Polyfiber's UV Smooth Prime is the best way to finish a
> piece. But I seem to be well down this road and it's too late to change
> horses. Were I doing another plane, I'd re-examine the whole approach.
>
> A note on sand paper: All the sanding I do is with 400 grit "open coat"
> sand paper. You could use coarser stuff to start with, but you
> definitely want 400 when you get down to the latter stages of sanding.
> Polyfiber would even suggest 600 grit. My painter says that's too fine.
> Open coat sand paper loads up much less than the regular stuff. I buy
> it at the auto body supply store. Some of sales personnel might not
> know what "open coat" means (the grains of abrasive are further apart).
> If it doesn't say "wet or dry" on the package is it probably open coat
> and it will say open coat on the back of the sheets (well, the 3M stuff
> does, anyway).
>
> Polyfiber's recommendations, the ones I agree with:
> 1- use a small foam roller (3 or 4 inches long, ~1" diameter) with the
> smallest foam cell size you can find. I bought mine in paint dept. at
> home depot, plus a small "tray" to use with it. It's made for painting
> woodwork, I think.
>
> 2- put on a large number of very thin coats rather than a small number
> of real thick ones. I put 6 or 7.
>
> 3- Don't try to fill huge pits with this stuff. It's for pin holes and
> surface roughness.
>
> 4- You want to put enough on so that after you have sanded it smooth you
> have not sanded thru the UV smooth prime completely anywhere. UV Smooth
> Prime is intended to completely re-surface a part, not spot fill it. You
> can get away with sanding thru it as long as what's underneath is nice
> and smooth.
>
>
> My Process is all of the above plus:
> 1- dilute the stuff 20% with water. I find this reduces the texture and
> the number of captive bubbles in the hardened product to manageable
> levels. (Polyfiber says use it as it comes out of the can. I think
> that is too viscous. It may be impacted by the fact that I live in dry
> Arizona and that may make it dry too fast.)
>
> 2- After mixing it up, let it sit for a few minutes for the bubbles to
> come out. Diluting facilitates this too. It has good pot life - several
> hours. I hang the roller over the edge of the tray and cover the whole
> thing with plastic wrap so it doesn't dry out while I wait.
>
> 3- Roll on the first coat. Cover the container and roller with plastic
> wrap to prevent it drying out and wait at least 15 minutes. Do not try
> to make it a thick coat. Thin is better. You want uniform thickness
> over the surface. I suspect that rolling slowly produces less texture
> than rolling fast, but I can't swear to it. Don't let any thick runs or
> drips stay long enough to dry. After it hardens, it's impossible to sand
> those away without sanding completely thru the adjacent UV smoothprime.
> Which is another way of saying, make it uniform.
>
> 4- Apply second coat, cover tray & roller and wait at least 15 minutes
> to dry, and then repeat with a 3rd coat. You could do a 4th coat if you
> want or have enough of the stuff left.
>
> 5- Next day (or several hours later) I sand that a little. No more than
> 4 or 5 seconds in one spot. You don't want to remove much, just to
> reduce the texture. Blow off all the dust carefully. Then apply 3 more
> coats as above.
>
> 6- Next day I start sanding with the 400 grit. It produces massive
> amounts of dust - use a filter mask. After the texture is greatly
> reduced so that it is not obvious, I start checking the surface very
> frequently as I sand. I sand for 5 seconds, blow the dust off with
> compressed air and inspect the surface with a bright flashlight (1 watt
> LED) aimed nearly parallel to the surface. This, combined with my
> extreme near-sightedness that allows me to see clearly 4 inches from the
> surface, reveals every tiny little pit and pin hole. If you are not
> blessed with eyes that have optical infinity just off the end of your
> nose, I recommend you get one of those dual magnifiers with a head
> strap. Believe me you will see surface features so small that they do
> not matter to the paint.
>
> 7- The surface won't be perfect. Generally you sand it until all the
> pin holes are gone (you can actually partly see thru the UV smoothprime
> at this point - if I have sharpie markings on the surface I can see them
> pretty clearly at this stage), but there will be a few pin holes that
> look deep even at this point. Leave those. They're probably too deep to
> sand off. You can try to re-coat those with UV Smoothprime (I hear
> that undiluted UV smooth prime squeegeed with a credit card works well,
> but it's hard to mix a tiny amount). I use Polyfiber Superfill (Blue
> goo). I mix a very small amount (2g filler + 1g hardener), put a small
> dab on the pin hole with a popsicle stick and then use a safety razor
> blade as a squeegee to squeegee it over the pin hole. Don't squeegee
> real hard. Use moderate pressure so you leave a thin film over the area
> of the pin hole. If you did it just right, you'll have a spot the size
> of a nickel that you can spot-sand away easily leaving the filled pin
> hole behind. Again, inspect with the flashlight and near-sighted eyes.
>
> 8- You spray primer over the UV smoothprime, but let it dry out for 2
> weeks first. Painting too soon may produce bubbles in the paint months
> later.
>
> --
> Tom S.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob <panamared5(at)brier.net> |
At 01:07 PM 6/8/08, you wrote:
> I can't escape the sinking feeling that if I just knew what I was
> doing, this whole fiberglass extravaganza would have been 10 times easier.
Ah So, the mystery of life. As my old Uncle used to say, most things
are pretty simple, once you learn how. Unfortunately by the time you
learn "how" the project is over.
Bob
RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: UV SmoothPrime progress |
Jim:
Sounds interesting. Do you have a Dupont part number for this stuff.
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Jim Sears" <jmsears(at)adelphia.net>
>
> I ended up with the Dupont fast fill primer that I think
> was mentioned in this thread.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert.v(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Family circumstances force me to sell my nearly completed RV8A. Comes
with IO360-A1B, recent top overhauled by local shop, with all
accessories, magneto's, alternator, oil cooler, Skytec inline starter,
recent top overhauled by local shop.
vetterman exhaust, needs a CS prop, instruments and radios to finish as
well as hooking up the engine controls. Abby Erdman interior and hooker
harnesses, 5 point with turn buckle. includes all the Van's kits.
looking for 40K OBO, interested? email gert.v(at)sbcglobal.net
--
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any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Kuebler <scottkuebler(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6 / 6a kit for sale |
RV-6 / 6a kit for sale.=0A-=0AEmpennage:- Complete except for fiberglas
s tips.- Includes electric elevator trim kit. All parts are alodined and
primed with Marhyde primer.=0A-=0AWings & Phlogiston Spar:- Both skelet
ons fully assembled.- Top skins riveted.- Both tanks are complete and s
ealed.- Flaps and ailerons complete, but not fitted.- Includes electric
aileron trim kit.- All parts are alodined and primed with Deft epoxy pri
mer (Mil-P-23377G).=0A-=0ABoth kits are the pre-punched versions purchase
d in 1997 & 1998 by myself.- Construction is excellent.- Preview plans
and Orndorff videos are included for both kits.=0A-=0ADetailed photos are
available.=0A-=0AMust sell. The first $3750 takes it all.- Buyer arran
ges transportation.=0A-=0AIf all items were purchased separately the pric
e would be more than $6500 for the unassembled kits.=0A-=0AScott Kuebler
=0ABuffalo, NY=0A716-510-0318- cell=0Ascottkuebler(at)yahoo.com=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Kuebler <scottkuebler(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6 / 6a kit for sale |
RV-6 / 6a kit for sale.=0A-=0AEmpennage:- Complete except for fiberglas
s tips.- Includes electric elevator trim kit. All parts are alodined and
primed with Marhyde primer.=0A-=0AWings & Phlogiston Spar:- Both skelet
ons fully assembled.- Top skins riveted.- Both tanks are complete and s
ealed.- Flaps and ailerons complete, but not fitted.- Includes electric
aileron trim kit.- All parts are alodined and primed with Deft epoxy pri
mer (Mil-P-23377G).=0A-=0ABoth kits are the pre-punched versions purchase
d in 1997 & 1998 by myself.- Construction is excellent.- Preview plans
and Orndorff videos are included for both kits.=0A-=0ADetailed photos are
available.=0A-=0AMust sell. The first $3750 takes it all.- Buyer arran
ges transportation.=0A-=0AIf all items were purchased separately the pric
e would be more than $6500 for the unassembled kits.=0A-=0AScott Kuebler
=0ABuffalo, NY=0A716-510-0318- cell=0Ascottkuebler(at)yahoo.com=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com> |
What is DP-48?
John Morgensen
Bob J. wrote:
> Guys, I have a friend who trains new employees at Scaled Composites,
> and this is what they do. The technique they use to fill pinholes is
> called a "resin wipe". It goes like this: sand with 36 grit paper.
> Squeegee pure epoxy on then immediately squeegee it off. Repeat 3-5
> times, right after the epoxy gets tacky from the previous coat. Wet
> sand with 150-220 grit. Then spray DP-48 followed by a guide coat of
> something darker, and simply sand the darker color off.
>
> Regards,
> Bob Japundza
> RV-6 flying F1 under const.
>
> On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 2:07 PM, tom sargent > wrote:
>
> >
>
> Mark:
> I've noticed that if you just wipe off the dust, it fills
> the pin holes. Great idea.
>
> Another radical approach I just heard of from a Vari-Eze
> builder that I work with is to sand the fiberglass with pretty
> coarse sand paper - 36 grit if you can believe it - and then just
> squeegee on pure epoxy. Then light sand and repeat as necessary.
> They claim that 1 to 5 coats of epoxy is all you need to get a
> perfect surface. No filler at all.
>
> Loehle Aircraft also has a radically new system that sounds
> good. If I ever have to do this again I will definitely do
> something very different.
>
> I can't escape the sinking feeling that if I just knew what
> I was doing, this whole fiberglass extravaganza would have been 10
> times easier.
>
>
> Mark Frederick wrote:
>
> Hi fellas:
> We use a different procedure -- developed over years of
> fighting this dang pinhole issue.
> 1: clean the part thoroughly; let dry
> 2: dry sand with 150 grit
> 3: wipe off dust with dry paper towel
> Yes, you read it correctly. Leave the dust in the pinholes!
>
>
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Knicholas2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Lycoming carb question. |
I have an 0-320 E2D in my RV9A and have fighting high CHT's. The engine
monitors suggest that the engine is running too lean, therefore contributing
to
the high CHT and exhaust temps. I learned yesterday that lycoming
apparently makes 2 different carbs for this engine. One runs leaner/richer than
the
other. One of the guys in my EAA chapter said that he had the same problem
with his 0-320 until he changed to a richer running carb and now has no
problems.
Can anyone tell me which carb for the 0-320 is the one that runs rich?
Thank you.
Kim Nicholas
RV9A
Auburn, WA
**************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best
2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)newwavecomm.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming carb question. |
Also block one end of upper cowl ramps, I just fiberglassed over the
inboard sides of mine and flew it once. It does seem that my temps are
some what lower.
Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY
My RV7A website: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
Knicholas2(at)aol.com wrote:
> I have an 0-320 E2D in my RV9A and have fighting high CHT's. The
> engine monitors suggest that the engine is running too lean,
> therefore contributing to the high CHT and exhaust temps. I learned
> yesterday that lycoming apparently makes 2 different carbs for this
> engine. One runs leaner/richer than the other. One of the guys in my
> EAA chapter said that he had the same problem with his 0-320 until he
> changed to a richer running carb and now has no problems.
>
> Can anyone tell me which carb for the 0-320 is the one that runs rich?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Kim Nicholas
> RV9A
> Auburn, WA
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008
> <http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102>.
> *
>
>
> *
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Checked by AVG.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Lycoming carb question |
> From: Knicholas2(at)aol.com
> Subject: RV-List: Lycoming carb question.
Hi Kim,
Flight instruments aside, does the engine behave like it is too lean when
the mixture knob is in at cruise less than 75% power? That is, if you
slowly lean, does the EGT decrease?
If you are in fact flying lean of peak, the exhaust temps will be less than
peak because the cooling is coming from excess air instead of excess fuel.
I guess I don't understand your "high EGT" temps if your readings are at
cruise configuration. All the EGT instruments I'm familiar with indicate
relative temps.
I'm not saying you don't have a lean carb problem - just curious if the
simpler determination of mixture gives the same indication.
Good landings,
Dennis
N600DP 6a sold http://home.att.net/~dpersyk/rv6a.htm
>
> I have an 0-320 E2D in my RV9A and have fighting high CHT's. The engine
> monitors suggest that the engine is running too lean, therefore
> contributing
> to
> the high CHT and exhaust temps. I learned yesterday that lycoming
> apparently makes 2 different carbs for this engine. One runs
> leaner/richer than
> the
> other. One of the guys in my EAA chapter said that he had the same
> problem
> with his 0-320 until he changed to a richer running carb and now has no
> problems.
>
> Can anyone tell me which carb for the 0-320 is the one that runs rich?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Kim Nicholas
> RV9A
> Auburn, WA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Knicholas2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:Lycoming carb question |
Thanks for the interest. Yes, everything points to a lean running engine.
Another RV-lister sent me information that it is common for the 10-5009
carbs to run lean. He is send me a new carb jet (apparently there was a Lycoming
service bullitin about it) to make it run more rich. I will post my
results on the list.
Regards,
Kim Nicholas
In a message dated 6/12/2008 9:48:35 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dennis Persyk"
> From: Knicholas2(at)aol.com
> Subject: RV-List: Lycoming carb question.
Hi Kim,
Flight instruments aside, does the engine behave like it is too lean when
the mixture knob is in at cruise less than 75% power? That is, if you
slowly lean, does the EGT decrease?
If you are in fact flying lean of peak, the exhaust temps will be less than
peak because the cooling is coming from excess air instead of excess fuel.
I guess I don't understand your "high EGT" temps if your readings are at
cruise configuration. All the EGT instruments I'm familiar with indicate
relative temps.
I'm not saying you don't have a lean carb problem - just curious if the
simpler determination of mixture gives the same indication.
Good landings,
Dennis
N600DP 6a sold http://home.att.net/~dpersyk/rv6a.htm
>
> I have an 0-320 E2D in my RV9A and have fighting high CHT's. The engine
> monitors suggest that the engine is running too lean, therefore
> contributing
> to
> the high CHT and exhaust temps. I learned yesterday that lycoming
> apparently makes 2 different carbs for this engine. One runs
> leaner/richer than
> the
> other. One of the guys in my EAA chapter said that he had the same
> problem
> with his 0-320 until he changed to a richer running carb and now has no
> problems.
>
> Can anyone tell me which carb for the 0-320 is the one that runs rich?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Kim Nicholas
> RV9A
> Auburn, WA
>
**************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best
2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Perry Yaremchuk" <payaremchuk(at)gmail.com> |
I am new to the list......
I've seen quite a few posts about tow/push bars, including plans to build.
Not having a welder, I'd like to know if anyone has taken a Cessna or
similar stock 'bar, and widened it an inch to clear the big wheel
pant, or otherwise modified it to fit the axle nuts etc.
I am doing my nose gear SB soon, so would like to do any other mods at
the same time.
thanks for any input
Perry
C-FINT RV-9/a in BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mkejrj(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: rV-9A TOW BAR |
Perry,
I used a Bogart tow bar available from ACS for about $ 65.00 and sold specifically
for RV's. I modified the bar's mechanism to better control the attaching
function which would spring closed damaging the paint on the wheel pant. The
mod consisted of replacing the stock mechanism with the largest turnbuckle available
from Ace Hardware and Aviation Supply company attached with modified
cap screws. See photo attachment. Good control and no more chipped paint.
Dick Jordan
RV 8A
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Perry Yaremchuk" <payaremchuk(at)gmail.com>
>
> I am new to the list......
> I've seen quite a few posts about tow/push bars, including plans to build.
> Not having a welder, I'd like to know if anyone has taken a Cessna or
> similar stock 'bar, and widened it an inch to clear the big wheel
> pant, or otherwise modified it to fit the axle nuts etc.
> I am doing my nose gear SB soon, so would like to do any other mods at
> the same time.
>
> thanks for any input
>
> Perry
> C-FINT RV-9/a in BC
>
>
>
>
Perry,
I used a Bogart tow bar available from ACS for about $ 65.00
and sold specifically for RV's. I modified the bar's mechanism to better
control the attaching function which would spring closed damaging the paint on
the wheel pant. The mod consisted of replacing the stock mechanism with the
largest turnbuckle available from Ace Hardware and Aviation Supply company attached
with modified cap screws. See photo attachment. Good control and no
more chipped paint.
Dick Jordan
RV 8A
es Nav
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | GRT EIS 6000 question |
I was going through the setup pages last night and realized I do not have
the scale factor and offset limits numbers for the fuel pressure sender. Mine is
a generic 0-100 psi sender from ACS. Anyone run across this recently?
Thanks for any input
Kevin Shannon
HR II N450KS
ready for taxi testing
**************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best
2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marty Santic" <marty.santic(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | For Sale: RV-9A Empennage Kit (Davenport, IA) |
FOR Sale:
I would like to sell my RV-9A empennage kit.
1 - RV-9A Empennage Kit (+ including electric trim)
Davenport, IA
I have looked up my invoices and I paid $1298 for the empennage kit and $200
for the electric trim kit. Total $1498. Also paid a $50 shipping charge.
The current price of the empennage kit via the Van's site is $1600, the
current price of the electric trim kit is $305. Total $1905.
Asking price, provided I can deliver it to you is 70% of what I paid for the
kits, this works out to 55% of the current price Van's is charging.
I would like to sell this kit locally as I can deliver it.
The above includes a second rudder skin as the first had a nick at the very
top. Nothing has been riveted. The skins have been dimpled and the spar
has been countersunk.
Reason for selling: The RV-9A project was purchased by me and my brother,
who has passed. I have decided, and have purchased the RV-12 wing kit and
intend to complete the RV-12 as opposed to the RV-9A.
If you have any questions, please call me at 563-344-0146 or e-mail me at
marty.santic at gmail.com .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Fasching" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com> |
| Subject: | It works better, but I don't know why |
My RV6A always had a habit of showing a few "dribbles" of red brake
fluid streaming out on the bottom of the fuselage beginning at the
firewall and running back on the belly about like oil might.
It never was much but was always there, yet the quantity was so small
that I really couldn't see the brake reservoir being depleted or being
drained of any significant amount.
Here's the oddity: I always knew there was air pressure in the bottom of
the cowling because my first flight had the oil inspection door bulging.
In an attempt to increase air speed by reducing cooling drag I installed
two louvers (from Avery's) along the bottom of the cowling...they're
about 11-inches by 3.5 or so - rough estimates - that I hoped would
reduce the built-up pressure, get more air moving across the cylinder
heads and give me an extra knot or two. I didn't see much difference in
speed.
But the red traces of brake fluid are gone. Somehow the built up
pressure was sucking some fluid from the reservoir I suspect although
there never was any indication of red brake fluid anyplace except along
the bottom of the fuselage just aft of the firewall.
I'll settle for a solved problem even if I don't understand it.
Chew on it folks and see what ideas you have.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott bilinski <rv8a2001(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: It works better, but I don't know why |
I have NO brake fluid leaks anywhere but still ran-the right brake-rese
rvoir dry.........figure that one out! =0A=0A-Scott Bilinski=0ARV-8a=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: John Fasching <n1cxo320@sal
idaco.com>=0ATo: rv-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 7:11
:16 PM=0ASubject: RV-List: It works better, but I don't know why=0A=0A=0AMy
RV6A always had a habit of showing a few "dribbles" of red brake fluid str
eaming out on the bottom of the fuselage beginning at the firewall and runn
ing back on the belly about like oil might.=0A-=0AIt never was much but w
as always there, yet the quantity was so small that I really couldn't see t
he brake reservoir being depleted or being drained of any significant amoun
t.=0A-=0AHere's the oddity: I always knew there was air pressure in the b
ottom of the cowling because my first flight had the oil inspection door bu
lging. In an attempt to increase air speed by reducing cooling drag I insta
lled two louvers (from Avery's) along the bottom of the cowling...they're a
bout 11-inches by 3.5 or so - rough estimates - that I hoped would reduce t
he built-up pressure, get more air moving across the cylinder heads and giv
e me an extra knot or two.- I didn't see much difference in speed.=0A-
=0ABut the red traces of brake fluid are gone. Somehow the built up pressur
e was sucking some fluid from the reservoir I suspect although there never
was any indication of red brake fluid anyplace except along the bottom of t
he fuselage just aft of the firewall.=0A-=0AI'll settle for a solved prob
lem even if I don't understand it.=0A-=0AChew on it folks and see what id
======= =0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | It works better, but I don't know why |
On my -6, if you fill the reservoir over 1/2 to 2/3 full, I get fluid out
the breather, down the firewall, and on the belly. It settles out and does
not come out the breather once it is at the 1/2 or less level. (Unless yo
u go negative G for more than a second.) Anyway, that is my experience aft
er 10+ years of flying the -6.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
2,113 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
From: n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com
Subject: RV-List: It works better, but I don't know why
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 20:11:16 -0600
My RV6A always had a habit of showing a few
"dribbles" of red brake fluid streaming out on the bottom of the fuselage
beginning at the firewall and running back on the belly about like oil
might.
It never was much but was always there, yet the
quantity was so small that I really couldn't see the brake reservoir being
depleted or being drained of any significant amount.
Here's the oddity: I always knew there was air
pressure in the bottom of the cowling because my first flight had the oil
inspection door bulging. In an attempt to increase air speed by reducing co
oling
drag I installed two louvers (from Avery's) along the bottom of the
cowling...they're about 11-inches by 3.5 or so - rough estimates - that I h
oped
would reduce the built-up pressure, get more air moving across the cylinder
heads and give me an extra knot or two. I didn't see much difference in
speed.
But the red traces of brake fluid are gone. Somehow
the built up pressure was sucking some fluid from the reservoir I suspect
although there never was any indication of red brake fluid anyplace except
along
the bottom of the fuselage just aft of the firewall.
I'll settle for a solved problem even if I don't
understand it.
Chew on it folks and see what ideas you
have.
John
_________________________________________________________________
Search that pays you back! Introducing Live Search cashback.
http://search.live.com/cashback/?&pkw=form=MIJAAF/publ=HMTGL/crea=s
rchpaysyouback
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | RV-6 Bellcranks. |
Two questions for the RV-6/A builders.
Aileron bellcrank ends where the heim bearings are installed. Do I need a
spacer washer on either side of the heim bearing (between the bellcrank
ears) in order to provide enough movement to get full forward and aft stick
travel? Right now my control sticks don't seem be able to move fore and aft
as far they should and I can't seem to be able to find the cause.
Elevator bellcrank spacers...... I originally made them both the same length
but when I was checking the blueprints the other day I noticed it shows one
spacer 15/16 inch and the other 7/16 inch. So I made new ones but when I
put the offset spacers in I noticed that the now offset bellcrank end did
not meet up with the pushrod coming from the control stick assembly (the
hole in the bottom of the bulkhead was centered and if I use the offset
spacers I'll have to grind out this hole and take out a good bit of the
flange (and a couple rivets) of the horizontal rib that runs between the
bottom of the aft baggage bulkhead and the next bulkhead aft, I'm a little
worried about loss of strength of the assembly by doing this). I also had a
fellow RV-7 builder look up these spacers on his plans and low and behold,
the spacers are equal length. So.....is there any reason I have to offset
the bellcrank or have some of you RV-6 builders used the equal length
spacers? Thanks.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
A couple weeks from first flight
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Safetying S-Tec-30 alt hold turnbuckle |
Folks,
I'm getting to some of the nitpicky things in my finishing work. One of the
few remaining ones is the turnbudkle for the altitude hold servo. The
forward part does not have a hole in it to allow for the safety wire to go
through, and the bolt hole is just the size of the bolt. The aft side looks
like it could take standard safety wire procedures.
The instructions say "safety per AC43.13....". How have you folks done it?
The 43.13 talks about clips and using safety wire if clips are not
available. I can't get the .032 safety wire to fit in the clip slot - is it
set up for smaller safety wire?
I've got a query in to S-Tec also but thought I would ask the collective....
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shirley Harding" <ShirleyH(at)oceanbroadband.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 Bellcranks. |
Dean - we had the same problem with the elevator bellcrank spacers - very
frustrating. Went with gut feeling and installed the equal sized ones and
have had no problems in 2 years.
Sorry, can't remember about the aileron bellcrank spacers right now.
Shirley Harding
RV6
80 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 Bellcranks. |
Dean,
First, check to see if the heim bearings on both ends of the aileron tubes
are in alignment. i.e. When the tube rotation is at max (in either
direction) because of the heim bearing, is the heim bearing on the other end
also at max rotation in that direction? They need to be the same or else you
are giving up some of the rotational play of the tube that heim bearing are
there to provide.
Second, the fore and aft stick movement should be limited only by the
elevator stops.
I do not remember removing any of the flange of the fore/aft rib between the
aft baggage bulkhead and the next aft bulkhead. I would use whatever spacers
to give the free movement of the push/pull elevator tube versus removing
material from the bulkhead.
Dale Ensing
RV-6A N118DE
----- Original Message -----
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 2:43 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV-6 Bellcranks.
>
>
> Two questions for the RV-6/A builders.
>
> Aileron bellcrank ends where the heim bearings are installed. Do I need a
> spacer washer on either side of the heim bearing (between the bellcrank
> ears) in order to provide enough movement to get full forward and aft
> stick
> travel? Right now my control sticks don't seem be able to move fore and
> aft
> as far they should and I can't seem to be able to find the cause.
>
> Elevator bellcrank spacers...... I originally made them both the same
> length
> but when I was checking the blueprints the other day I noticed it shows
> one
> spacer 15/16 inch and the other 7/16 inch. So I made new ones but when I
> put the offset spacers in I noticed that the now offset bellcrank end did
> not meet up with the pushrod coming from the control stick assembly (the
> hole in the bottom of the bulkhead was centered and if I use the offset
> spacers I'll have to grind out this hole and take out a good bit of the
> flange (and a couple rivets) of the horizontal rib that runs between the
> bottom of the aft baggage bulkhead and the next bulkhead aft, I'm a little
> worried about loss of strength of the assembly by doing this). I also had
> a
> fellow RV-7 builder look up these spacers on his plans and low and behold,
> the spacers are equal length. So.....is there any reason I have to offset
> the bellcrank or have some of you RV-6 builders used the equal length
> spacers? Thanks.
>
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
> RV-6A N197DM
> A couple weeks from first flight
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: It works better, but I don't know why |
Thieves!
-Stormy (no fluid level change in 10 years)
On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 11:26 PM, scott bilinski wrote:
> I have NO brake fluid leaks anywhere but still ran the right
> brake reservoir dry.........figure that one out!
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> RV-8a
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: John Fasching <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 7:11:16 PM
> Subject: RV-List: It works better, but I don't know why
>
> My RV6A always had a habit of showing a few "dribbles" of red brake fluid
> streaming out on the bottom of the fuselage beginning at the firewall and
> running back on the belly about like oil might.
>
> It never was much but was always there, yet the quantity was so small that
> I really couldn't see the brake reservoir being depleted or being drained of
> any significant amount.
>
> Here's the oddity: I always knew there was air pressure in the bottom of
> the cowling because my first flight had the oil inspection door bulging. In
> an attempt to increase air speed by reducing cooling drag I installed two
> louvers (from Avery's) along the bottom of the cowling...they're about
> 11-inches by 3.5 or so - rough estimates - that I hoped would reduce the
> built-up pressure, get more air moving across the cylinder heads and give me
> an extra knot or two. I didn't see much difference in speed.
>
> But the red traces of brake fluid are gone. Somehow the built up pressure
> was sucking some fluid from the reservoir I suspect although there never was
> any indication of red brake fluid anyplace except along the bottom of the
> fuselage just aft of the firewall.
>
> I'll settle for a solved problem even if I don't understand it.
>
> Chew on it folks and see what ideas you have.
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: It works better, but I don't know why |
Is there any chance that you had air bubbles in the low pressure side of
your brake system? As the aircraft's altitude increases, the air
bubbles would expand, and could cause the resivour to overflow as fluid
in the lines was pushed back into the holding tank...
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: John Fasching
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 10:11 PM
Subject: RV-List: It works better, but I don't know why
My RV6A always had a habit of showing a few "dribbles" of red brake
fluid streaming out on the bottom of the fuselage beginning at the
firewall and running back on the belly about like oil might.
It never was much but was always there, yet the quantity was so small
that I really couldn't see the brake reservoir being depleted or being
drained of any significant amount.
Here's the oddity: I always knew there was air pressure in the bottom
of the cowling because my first flight had the oil inspection door
bulging. In an attempt to increase air speed by reducing cooling drag I
installed two louvers (from Avery's) along the bottom of the
cowling...they're about 11-inches by 3.5 or so - rough estimates - that
I hoped would reduce the built-up pressure, get more air moving across
the cylinder heads and give me an extra knot or two. I didn't see much
difference in speed.
But the red traces of brake fluid are gone. Somehow the built up
pressure was sucking some fluid from the reservoir I suspect although
there never was any indication of red brake fluid anyplace except along
the bottom of the fuselage just aft of the firewall.
I'll settle for a solved problem even if I don't understand it.
Chew on it folks and see what ideas you have.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Lightspeed EI Phase check |
I'm having problems with the phase check on my Lightspeed Plasma II
ignition. I'm not sure if I'm doing the check wrong, or if I have a
problem with the wiring, or with some component in the ignition.
I've got a Hall Effect unit in the right mag hole. The little green
LED on the back of it is working, and it goes out when the crank is
rotated through 5 deg after TDC (I've got 8.7:1 compression ratio,
and this is what Klaus recommends). But, when I try to check the
phase, with the plug wires pulled off the coils, I can't see any
spark between the two outputs on either coil. Nothing. Have I
misunderstood how the phase check is done?
I've checked that the two coax cables are on the BNC connects of the
ignition box, and that the other end is hooked up to the coil input.
I guess my next check will be continuity of the two coax. After that
I'll check each wire in the cable that goes between the Hall Effect
unit and the ignition brains box.
Any other ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks,
--
Kevin Horton
RV-8 (FInal Assembly)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed EI Phase check |
| From: | Michael W Stewart <mike.stewart(at)us.ibm.com> |
Kevin,
As a test, plugs out, swing the prop, by hand or by starter, you should
see
and hear a monster spark between the coil plug pins.
If not, the next thing to do is pull the hall effect and check the gap
on
the fly bar to the magnet pickup. Its a pain but the instructions expla
in
how to check the gap and what the gap should be.
This was my problem when I got mine and a proper gap fixed it.
Also triple check the voltage and gnd into the box. Id do this first.
Mike
Kevin Horton
To
Sent by: RV-8(at)yahoogroups.com,
owner-rv-list-ser rv-list(at)matronics.com
ver(at)matronics.com
cc
Subj
ect
06/15/2008 11:58 RV-List: Lightspeed EI Phase che
ck
AM
Please respond to
rv-list@matronics
.com
I'm having problems with the phase check on my Lightspeed Plasma II
ignition. I'm not sure if I'm doing the check wrong, or if I have a
problem with the wiring, or with some component in the ignition.
I've got a Hall Effect unit in the right mag hole. The little green
LED on the back of it is working, and it goes out when the crank is
rotated through 5 deg after TDC (I've got 8.7:1 compression ratio,
and this is what Klaus recommends). But, when I try to check the
phase, with the plug wires pulled off the coils, I can't see any
spark between the two outputs on either coil. Nothing. Have I
misunderstood how the phase check is done?
I've checked that the two coax cables are on the BNC connects of the
ignition box, and that the other end is hooked up to the coil input.
I guess my next check will be continuity of the two coax. After that
I'll check each wire in the cable that goes between the Hall Effect
unit and the ignition brains box.
Any other ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks,
--
Kevin Horton
RV-8 (FInal Assembly)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty" <jfogarty(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 Bellcranks. |
Dean, The shaft connecting the two control sticks maybe hitting on the top
portion of the rib web. I had that problem with my RV9, and I needed to do
some of filing in order to get full movement on the elevator control stick.
Hope this helps.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 1:43 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV-6 Bellcranks.
>
>
> Two questions for the RV-6/A builders.
>
> Aileron bellcrank ends where the heim bearings are installed. Do I need a
> spacer washer on either side of the heim bearing (between the bellcrank
> ears) in order to provide enough movement to get full forward and aft
> stick
> travel? Right now my control sticks don't seem be able to move fore and
> aft
> as far they should and I can't seem to be able to find the cause.
>
> Elevator bellcrank spacers...... I originally made them both the same
> length
> but when I was checking the blueprints the other day I noticed it shows
> one
> spacer 15/16 inch and the other 7/16 inch. So I made new ones but when I
> put the offset spacers in I noticed that the now offset bellcrank end did
> not meet up with the pushrod coming from the control stick assembly (the
> hole in the bottom of the bulkhead was centered and if I use the offset
> spacers I'll have to grind out this hole and take out a good bit of the
> flange (and a couple rivets) of the horizontal rib that runs between the
> bottom of the aft baggage bulkhead and the next bulkhead aft, I'm a little
> worried about loss of strength of the assembly by doing this). I also had
> a
> fellow RV-7 builder look up these spacers on his plans and low and behold,
> the spacers are equal length. So.....is there any reason I have to offset
> the bellcrank or have some of you RV-6 builders used the equal length
> spacers? Thanks.
>
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
> RV-6A N197DM
> A couple weeks from first flight
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG.
> 6:33 AM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-6 Bellcranks. |
The elevator bellcrank spacers need to be adjusted so the lower pushrod goes
thru the hole in the bulkhead without interference through the whole range
of motion AND the upper pushrod does not contact the vertical support when
the stick is full forward. I think the asymmetry was because of the upper
pushrod and that cone adapter needing to clear the center support. Whatever
combination of spacers/washers gets you the clearance for both is all you
need. The -6 is also subject to builder variation which has been engineered
out of the -7. Sounds like you got it just right.
Regards,
Greg Young
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DEAN
> PSIROPOULOS
> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 1:43 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: RV-6 Bellcranks.
>
> -->
>
> Two questions for the RV-6/A builders.
>
> Aileron bellcrank ends where the heim bearings are installed.
> Do I need a spacer washer on either side of the heim bearing
> (between the bellcrank
> ears) in order to provide enough movement to get full forward
> and aft stick travel? Right now my control sticks don't seem
> be able to move fore and aft as far they should and I can't
> seem to be able to find the cause.
>
> Elevator bellcrank spacers...... I originally made them both
> the same length but when I was checking the blueprints the
> other day I noticed it shows one spacer 15/16 inch and the
> other 7/16 inch. So I made new ones but when I put the
> offset spacers in I noticed that the now offset bellcrank end
> did not meet up with the pushrod coming from the control
> stick assembly (the hole in the bottom of the bulkhead was
> centered and if I use the offset spacers I'll have to grind
> out this hole and take out a good bit of the flange (and a
> couple rivets) of the horizontal rib that runs between the
> bottom of the aft baggage bulkhead and the next bulkhead aft,
> I'm a little worried about loss of strength of the assembly
> by doing this). I also had a fellow RV-7 builder look up
> these spacers on his plans and low and behold, the spacers
> are equal length. So.....is there any reason I have to
> offset the bellcrank or have some of you RV-6 builders used
> the equal length spacers? Thanks.
>
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
> RV-6A N197DM
> A couple weeks from first flight
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
I posed the question of what's needed for LEGAL IFR operation, and this
was the reply I got. He lives in the certified airplane world but .......
The unit must be certified under either TSO-c129 or TSO-c146, be
installed in the aircraft, and be approved in that aircraft on a 337 via either
STC or field approval (if no STC for that aircraft exists). No TSO, no IFR
approval.
Since I'm planning on using the Odyssee
(http://www.mglavionics.com/html/odyssey.html) glass panel with it's
built-in WAAS capableGPS with RAIM ....... there's no TSO. Those of you
with glass panels that fly IFR with a built-in GPS ....... did you use a
certified GPS as backupor wing it ..... pun intended :-D .
Linn
so not archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed EI Phase check |
Mike,
Thanks for the info.
I've swung the prop briskly by hand, and neither coil sparks. I've
confirmed voltage and ground on the correct pins at the connector on
the EI box. As far as the gap at the Hall Effect unit goes - if the
gap is wrong, would the green LED on the unit light up and go out as
you turn the prop?
Kevin
On 16 Jun 2008, at 07:34, Michael W Stewart wrote:
> Kevin,
> As a test, plugs out, swing the prop, by hand or by starter, you
> should see and hear a monster spark between the coil plug pins.
> If not, the next thing to do is pull the hall effect and check the
> gap on the fly bar to the magnet pickup. Its a pain but the
> instructions explain how to check the gap and what the gap should be.
> This was my problem when I got mine and a proper gap fixed it.
> Also triple check the voltage and gnd into the box. Id do this first.
> Mike
>
>
> Kevin Horton ---06/15/2008 12:24:35 PM-----> RV-List
> message posted by: Kevin Horton
>
> Kevin Horton
> Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> 06/15/2008 11:58 AM
> Please respond to
> rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> To
>
> RV-8(at)yahoogroups.com, rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> cc
>
>
> Subject
>
> RV-List: Lightspeed EI Phase check
>
>
>
> I'm having problems with the phase check on my Lightspeed Plasma II
> ignition. I'm not sure if I'm doing the check wrong, or if I have a
> problem with the wiring, or with some component in the ignition.
> I've got a Hall Effect unit in the right mag hole. The little green
> LED on the back of it is working, and it goes out when the crank is
> rotated through 5 deg after TDC (I've got 8.7:1 compression ratio,
> and this is what Klaus recommends). But, when I try to check the
> phase, with the plug wires pulled off the coils, I can't see any
> spark between the two outputs on either coil. Nothing. Have I
> misunderstood how the phase check is done?
>
> I've checked that the two coax cables are on the BNC connects of the
> ignition box, and that the other end is hooked up to the coil input.
> I guess my next check will be continuity of the two coax. After that
> I'll check each wire in the cable that goes between the Hall Effect
> unit and the ignition brains box.
>
> Any other ideas would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Kevin Horton
> RV-8 (FInal Assembly)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Leonard" <wdleonard(at)gmail.com> |
Linn,
The TSO is not required for us, neither is an STC obviously. BUT! the unit
MUST function to all the standards of the TSO. That includes not just RAIM
but also the way the approaches and waypoints are handled and presented, and
sequenced. My guess is that the Odyssey would not meet those standards.
You may be able to make an argument that it does meet the standards for and
en-route IFR GPS and then you could use it to substitute for DME and flying
point to point - but you would have to document how you verified that it met
the standards for en-route IFR GPS. You also have to be sure that the
database points for the DME on LOC approaches are the same points used in
the certified units (ie.. DME to the LOC and not the 'airport' etc).
But really, if you want to fly precision GPS approaches don't mess around
and just get a certified unit. Or save the $$ and just get a nav with
LOC/GS. That will cost a lot less and get you in to almost anywhere. Think
about how often you are really going to need/want to fly approaches to the
lower WAAS minimums. Sometimes, but very very rarely.
JMHO
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 12:32 PM, linn Walters
wrote:
>
> I posed the question of what's needed for LEGAL IFR operation, and this was
> the reply I got. He lives in the certified airplane world but .......
>
> The unit must be certified under either TSO-c129 or TSO-c146, be
> installed in the aircraft, and be approved in that aircraft on a 337 via
> either
> STC or field approval (if no STC for that aircraft exists). No TSO, no IFR
> approval.
>
> Since I'm planning on using the Odyssee (
> http://www.mglavionics.com/html/odyssey.html) glass panel with it's
> built-in WAAS capableGPS with RAIM ....... there's no TSO. Those of you
> with glass panels that fly IFR with a built-in GPS ....... did you use a
> certified GPS as backupor wing it ..... pun intended :-D .
> Linn
> so not archive
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed EI Phase check |
I finally was able to get ahold of Klaus Savier, and he had the
problem sorted out in about three minutes. The electronic ignition is
OK, but I wasn't doing the phase test properly. I wasn't rocking the
prop back and forth quickly enough. Klaus told me you need to
generate at least 2 pulses per second - that means two complete back
and forth movements in less than one second. Once I rocked it very,
very quickly, I got the spark I was looking for. Both coils check out
OK.
I hope to get the first engine run done sometime on the coming
weekend, weather permitting.
Kevin
On 16-Jun-08, at 17:46 , Kevin Horton wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
> I've swung the prop briskly by hand, and neither coil sparks. I've
> confirmed voltage and ground on the correct pins at the connector on
> the EI box. As far as the gap at the Hall Effect unit goes - if
> the gap is wrong, would the green LED on the unit light up and go
> out as you turn the prop?
>
> Kevin
>
>
> On 16 Jun 2008, at 07:34, Michael W Stewart wrote:
>
>> Kevin,
>> As a test, plugs out, swing the prop, by hand or by starter, you
>> should see and hear a monster spark between the coil plug pins.
>> If not, the next thing to do is pull the hall effect and check the
>> gap on the fly bar to the magnet pickup. Its a pain but the
>> instructions explain how to check the gap and what the gap should be.
>> This was my problem when I got mine and a proper gap fixed it.
>> Also triple check the voltage and gnd into the box. Id do this first.
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Kevin Horton ---06/15/2008 12:24:35 PM-----> RV-List
>> message posted by: Kevin Horton
>>
>> Kevin Horton
>> Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> 06/15/2008 11:58 AM
>> Please respond to
>> rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>
>> To
>>
>> RV-8(at)yahoogroups.com, rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>
>> cc
>>
>>
>> Subject
>>
>> RV-List: Lightspeed EI Phase check
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm having problems with the phase check on my Lightspeed Plasma II
>> ignition. I'm not sure if I'm doing the check wrong, or if I have a
>> problem with the wiring, or with some component in the ignition.
>> I've got a Hall Effect unit in the right mag hole. The little green
>> LED on the back of it is working, and it goes out when the crank is
>> rotated through 5 deg after TDC (I've got 8.7:1 compression ratio,
>> and this is what Klaus recommends). But, when I try to check the
>> phase, with the plug wires pulled off the coils, I can't see any
>> spark between the two outputs on either coil. Nothing. Have I
>> misunderstood how the phase check is done?
>>
>> I've checked that the two coax cables are on the BNC connects of the
>> ignition box, and that the other end is hooked up to the coil input.
>> I guess my next check will be continuity of the two coax. After that
>> I'll check each wire in the cable that goes between the Hall Effect
>> unit and the ignition brains box.
>>
>> Any other ideas would be appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> --
>> Kevin Horton
>> RV-8 (FInal Assembly)
>> Ottawa, Canada
>> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>>
>>
--
Kevin Horton
Ottawa, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | -7 tipup F-721A: When?? |
Those who have gone before,
When is it ok to rivet the F-721A's ('forward canopy deck', @
instrument panel) to the longerons? I've fit all the stuff related to
the F-768 sub panel components but I'm waiting (as the instructions say
you can) to rivet that assembly into the fuselage. I'm ready to start
fitting the canopy frame, but that ain't happening unless I either rivet
the F-721A's to the longerons or take them out completely.
The earlier instructions describe 'fitting' them, but don't specify
actually riveting them in place.
Thanks,
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List: -7 tipup F-721A: When?? |
Charlie England wrote:
> --> RV7-List message posted by: Charlie England
>
> Those who have gone before,
>
> When is it ok to rivet the F-721A's ('forward canopy deck', @
> instrument panel) to the longerons? I've fit all the stuff related to
> the F-768 sub panel components but I'm waiting (as the instructions
> say you can) to rivet that assembly into the fuselage. I'm ready to
> start fitting the canopy frame, but that ain't happening unless I
> either rivet the F-721A's to the longerons or take them out completely.
>
> The earlier instructions describe 'fitting' them, but don't specify
> actually riveting them in place.
> Thanks,
>
> Charlie
OK, I know that Van's engineers won't apologize for the terrible
nomenclature, so I will. I'm sorry that Van named 2 little 4" x 12"
triangles 'forward canopy decks'.
These are the pieces that rivet to the top of the top longerons from
about 2" aft of the instrument panel, where they are only an inch wide,
up to the 'sub panel' where they are about 4 " wide.
I have no intention of riveting the upper structure & forward skin yet.
But, clecos holding these F-721A's on the longerons interfere with
fitting the canopy frame. I'm trying to determine whether I'm supposed
to go ahead with riveting these 2 small pieces so I can fit the canopy,
& not interfere with anything else in the process.
Thanks,
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wheeler North" <wnorth(at)sdccd.edu> |
In general the philosphy I use is don't cut or rivet unless you absolutely
cannot go any further without it.
In this case could you use -6 screws and nuts temporarily.
W
OK, I know that Van's engineers won't apologize for the terrible
nomenclature, so I will. I'm sorry that Van named 2 little 4" x 12"
triangles 'forward canopy decks'.
These are the pieces that rivet to the top of the top longerons from about 2"
aft of the instrument panel, where they are only an inch wide, up to the 'sub
panel' where they are about 4 " wide.
I have no intention of riveting the upper structure & forward skin yet.
But, clecos holding these F-721A's on the longerons interfere with fitting
the canopy frame. I'm trying to determine whether I'm supposed to go ahead
with riveting these 2 small pieces so I can fit the canopy, & not interfere
with anything else in the process.
Thanks,
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: To rivet or not |
Charlie
Wheeler's advice below is about the best you'll get. I've found #4 screws work
great to temporarily hold in place of 3/32" rivets. Sometimes, clecos just won't
do the job. I much prefer to keep everything temporarily fastened until I'm
ready to pull an assembly apart to dimple, countersink, deburr, Alodine and
prime it. Then it goes back together for riveting. You will save a lot of time
if you can do fewer "large" assemblies, as opposed to more "small" sub-assemblies.
Charlie Kuss
--- On Wed, 6/18/08, Wheeler North wrote:
> From: Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.edu>
> Subject: RV-List: To rivet or not
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2008, 11:29 AM
>
>
> In general the philosphy I use is don't cut or rivet
> unless you absolutely
> cannot go any further without it.
>
> In this case could you use -6 screws and nuts temporarily.
>
> W
>
>
>
> OK, I know that Van's engineers won't apologize for
> the terrible
> nomenclature, so I will. I'm sorry that Van named 2
> little 4" x 12"
> triangles 'forward canopy decks'.
>
> These are the pieces that rivet to the top of the top
> longerons from about 2"
> aft of the instrument panel, where they are only an inch
> wide, up to the 'sub
> panel' where they are about 4 " wide.
>
> I have no intention of riveting the upper structure &
> forward skin yet.
> But, clecos holding these F-721A's on the longerons
> interfere with fitting
> the canopy frame. I'm trying to determine whether
> I'm supposed to go ahead
> with riveting these 2 small pieces so I can fit the canopy,
> & not interfere
> with anything else in the process.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RICHARD MILLER <rickpegser(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List: -7 tipup F-721A: When?? |
cut the guys some slack you ought to try to work from boeing drawings when
rebuilding large sections of fuselage.-and changing the main landing gear
fitting on a dc-8 went bacisally, remove all interfering structure and ins
tall per drawing xxx-xxx, reinstall disturbed structure. that was the instr
uctions for 45 days of work for four men round the clock.
rick
--- On Tue, 6/17/08, Charlie England wrote:
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RV-List: Re: RV7-List: -7 tipup F-721A: When??
Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 11:28 AM
Charlie England wrote:
> --> RV7-List message posted by: Charlie England
>
> Those who have gone before,
>
> When is it ok to rivet the F-721A's ('forward canopy deck', @
> instrument panel) to the longerons? I've fit all the stuff related to
> the F-768 sub panel components but I'm waiting (as the instructions
> say you can) to rivet that assembly into the fuselage. I'm ready to
> start fitting the canopy frame, but that ain't happening unless I
> either rivet the F-721A's to the longerons or take them out
completely.
>
> The earlier instructions describe 'fitting' them, but don't
specify
> actually riveting them in place.
> Thanks,
>
> Charlie
OK, I know that Van's engineers won't apologize for the terrible
nomenclature, so I will. I'm sorry that Van named 2 little 4" x
12"
triangles 'forward canopy decks'.
These are the pieces that rivet to the top of the top longerons from
about 2" aft of the instrument panel, where they are only an inch wide,
up to the 'sub panel' where they are about 4 " wide.
I have no intention of riveting the upper structure & forward skin yet.
But, clecos holding these F-721A's on the longerons interfere with
fitting the canopy frame. I'm trying to determine whether I'm supposed
to go ahead with riveting these 2 small pieces so I can fit the canopy,
& not interfere with anything else in the process.
Thanks,
Charlie
============0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List: -7 tipup F-721A: When?? |
Just kidding. Sort of.
I know that we are really living in the 'best of times', but it still
gets a little frustrating occasionally. Found 2 actual errors in the
plans/instructions within minutes of each other recently. From the email
I haven't yet sent to Van's,
>
dwg 47 drawn 1/22/01 sector c/d-9 top view of fuselage canopy frame:
perspective callout (rt/aft) is rotated 90 degrees counter-clockwise
Instructions revised 6/2/04 fuselage section 8-20 under heading
'Installing the Front Deck (Tipup Canopy Only) 6th paragraph beginning
'Assemble the components...' 2nd sentence says 'Locate and drill the
hat-section F-697 Channel to the *aft face* of the F-768A Center
Subpanel.' (Drawings show the had section on the *forward* side of the
F-768A subpanel.)
>
On a positive note, I actually got a Van's employee to admit that it
would be useful to 1st time builders if the parts list was in some
(almost any) order other than the one the warehouse employee uses to
pull the parts.
Charlie
(Make no mistake, I DO love my RV.)
RICHARD MILLER wrote:
>
> cut the guys some slack you ought to try to work from boeing drawings
> when rebuilding large sections of fuselage. and changing the main
> landing gear fitting on a dc-8 went bacisally, remove all interfering
> structure and install per drawing xxx-xxx, reinstall disturbed
> structure. that was the instructions for 45 days of work for four men
> round the clock.
>
> rick
>
> --- On *Tue, 6/17/08, Charlie England //* wrote:
>
> From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
> Subject: RV-List: Re: RV7-List: -7 tipup F-721A: When??
> To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 11:28 AM
>
>
>
> Charlie England wrote:
> > --> RV7-List message posted by: Charlie England
>
> >
> > Those who have gone before,
> >
> > When is it ok to rivet the F-721A's ('forward canopy deck', @
>
> > instrument panel) to the longerons? I've fit all the stuff related to
> > the F-768 sub panel components but I'm waiting (as the instructions
> > say you can) to rivet that assembly into the fuselage. I'm ready to
> > start fitting the canopy frame, but that ain't happening unless I
> > either rivet the F-721A's to the longerons or take them out
> completely.
> >
> > The earlier instructions describe 'fitting' them, but don't
> specify
> > actually riveting them in place.
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Charlie
>
> OK, I know that Van's engineers won't apologize for the terrible
> nomenclature, so I will. I'm sorry that Van named 2 little 4" x
> 12"
> triangles 'forward canopy decks'.
>
> These are the pieces that rivet to the top of the top longerons from
> about 2" aft of the instrument panel, where they are only an inch wide,
> up to the 'sub panel' where they are about 4 " wide.
>
> I have no intention of riveting the upper structure & forward skin yet.
> But, clecos holding these F-721A's on the longerons interfere with
> fitting the canopy frame. I'm trying to determine whether I'm supposed
>
> to go ahead with riveting these 2 small pieces so I can fit the canopy,
> & not interfere with anything else in the process.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mick Muller" <mmul6471(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Cracks in Horizontal stabiliser anyone?? |
Howdy All,
I heard a rumour that Vans has an issue with cracks in the front spar
of the Horizontal stabiliser on the RV6. It seems that the area just above
the
attach point at the front where the HS602 spar has had the flanges
cut off has developed cracks down to the first rivet where the edges
have been filed down. The RV9A which I am building has the same set up, and
I was
wondering if the same issue may arise. Has anyone heard of this
happening on the RV6 or other RV's????
I am thinking about putting in some sort of doubler plate in this area.
Mick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cracks in Horizontal stabiliser anyone?? |
Been flying my RV-6 for almost 20 years and I live in RV country(close
to Vans)
I have not heard of an issue with the cracks in the front spar.
Jerry
Mick Muller wrote:
>
> Howdy All,
>
> I heard a rumour that Vans has an issue with cracks in the front spar
> of the Horizontal stabiliser on the RV6. It seems that the area just
> above the
> attach point at the front where the HS602 spar has had the flanges
> cut off has developed cracks down to the first rivet where the edges
> have been filed down. The RV9A which I am building has the same set
> up, and I was
> wondering if the same issue may arise. Has anyone heard of this
> happening on the RV6 or other RV's????
> I am thinking about putting in some sort of doubler plate in this area.
> Mick
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Visit to Minneapolis |
Hi everybody,
I started to build an RV8a (empanage is almost done) in Germany. Currently, I'm
in Minneapolis on a business trip and would like to meet with other RV 8 / RV8a
builders in the area. Anybody out there willing to show his project? Would
be great to meet with you.
On another note: my bi-anual flight review is due. Anybody knows a flight school
in the greater area of Minneapolis, that has something like a Piper PA 28 (I
prefer the low wings over the Cessnas...). Or is there a CFI with an RV in the
area willing to handle my bi-anual sometimes during the coming weekend? That
would be way cool.
Thanks
Thilo
--
Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
Ideal fr Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Leonard" <wdleonard(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Visit to Minneapolis |
> . Or is there a CFI with an RV in the area willing to handle my bi-anual
> sometimes during the coming weekend? That would be way cool.
>
> Thanks
>
> Thilo
>
The would be way cool for you. But you can't pay to do a bi-annual in
someone else's experimental aircraft. Only proficiency training.
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Visit to Minneapolis |
I do not belive that is true. Oth what is the difference in proficiency
training and flight instruction?
They are not called bi-annuals any more they are called flight reviews
David Leonard wrote:
>
> . Or is there a CFI with an RV in the area willing to handle my
> bi-anual sometimes during the coming weekend? That would be way cool.
>
> Thanks
>
> Thilo
>
>
> The would be way cool for you. But you can't pay to do a bi-annual in
> someone else's experimental aircraft. Only proficiency training.
>
> --
> David Leonard
>
> Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
> http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
> http://RotaryRoster.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Visit to Minneapolis |
I should have added with a letter "Letter of Deviation"
===============================================================
I do not belive that is true. Oth what is the difference in proficiency
training and flight instruction?
They are not called bi-annuals any more they are called flight reviews
David Leonard wrote:
. Or is there a CFI with an RV in the area willing to handle my
bi-anual sometimes during the coming weekend? That would be way cool.
Thanks
Thilo
The would be way cool for you. But you can't pay to do a bi-annual in
someone else's experimental aircraft. Only proficiency training.
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
Great post, David. GPS is great, but we've been fine without it for a long time.
My RV-4 is IFR and has a Garmin 396 for my basic VFR nav, and IFR backup for
situational awareness. I still like flying needles better than lines. But
the VFR GPS makes a GREAT aid to situational awareness, plus terrain, obstacles,
XM radio, WX, etc.
Paul Besing
----- Original Message ----
From: David Leonard <wdleonard(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 3:58:33 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: IFR GPS
Linn,
The TSO is not required for us, neither is an STC obviously. BUT! the unit MUST
function to all the standards of the TSO. That includes not just RAIM but
also the way the approaches and waypoints are handled and presented, and sequenced.
My guess is that the Odyssey would not meet those standards. You may be
able to make an argument that it does meet the standards for and en-route IFR
GPS and then you could use it to substitute for DME and flying point to point
- but you would have to document how you verified that it met the standards
for en-route IFR GPS. You also have to be sure that the database points for the
DME on LOC approaches are the same points used in the certified units (ie..
DME to the LOC and not the 'airport' etc).
But really, if you want to fly precision GPS approaches don't mess around and just
get a certified unit. Or save the $$ and just get a nav with LOC/GS. That
will cost a lot less and get you in to almost anywhere. Think about how often
you are really going to need/want to fly approaches to the lower WAAS minimums.
Sometimes, but very very rarely.
JMHO
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 12:32 PM, linn Walters wrote:
I posed the question of what's needed for LEGAL IFR operation, and this was the
reply I got. He lives in the certified airplane world but .......
The unit must be certified under either TSO-c129 or TSO-c146, be
installed in the aircraft, and be approved in that aircraft on a 337 via either
STC or field approval (if no STC for that aircraft exists). No TSO, no IFR
approval.
Since I'm planning on using the Odyssee (http://www.mglavionics.com/html/odyssey.html) glass panel with it's built-in WAAS capableGPS with RAIM ....... there's no TSO. Those of you with glass panels that fly IFR with a built-in GPS ....... did you use a certified GPS as backupor wing it ..... pun intended :-D .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
If you want to do it right, find a system that is TSOd.
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "sheldon barrett" <sheldonb(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cracks in Horizontal stabiliser anyone?? |
Nothing on Van's website 'Letters, Service Bulletins, and Revisions' list
indicates this...
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/notices.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mick Muller" <mmul6471(at)bigpond.net.au>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 3:58 AM
Subject: RV-List: Cracks in Horizontal stabiliser anyone??
>
> Howdy All,
>
> I heard a rumour that Vans has an issue with cracks in the front spar
> of the Horizontal stabiliser on the RV6. It seems that the area just above
> the
> attach point at the front where the HS602 spar has had the flanges
> cut off has developed cracks down to the first rivet where the edges
> have been filed down. The RV9A which I am building has the same set up,
> and I was
> wondering if the same issue may arise. Has anyone heard of this
> happening on the RV6 or other RV's????
> I am thinking about putting in some sort of doubler plate in this area.
> Mick
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Reginald C. Smith, Sr." <smirdrv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Experimental Aircraft Financing |
Say Folks,
I'm in the process of attempting to purchase a "was Flying" project t
o use while I continue building my(was 6A) RV-6, but I'm finding out that t
he RV's and others are on an "Acceptable" list but not others like Tailwind
s and Hiperbipes, etc. Are there companies/organizations that some of you a
re aware of that will finance Ex-Planes other than the popular ones? I wou
ld rather use "Other Peoples Money" for the interum aircraft and not have
to empty the RV Piggy Bank. Any referals/suggestions?
Thanks.
RC
_________________________________________________________________
Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM
_WL_Refresh_messenger_062008
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Experimental Aircraft Financing |
Try prosper.com . I have no personal experience with this outfit but I
was checking it out as a possible investment.
john
Reginald C. Smith, Sr. wrote:
> Say Folks,
>
> I'm in the process of attempting to purchase a "was Flying"
> project to use while I continue building my(was 6A) RV-6, but I'm
> finding out that the RV's and others are on an "Acceptable" list but
> not others like Tailwinds and Hiperbipes, etc. Are there
> companies/organizations that some of you are aware of that will
> finance Ex-Planes other than the popular ones? I would rather use
> "Other Peoples Money" for the interum aircraft and not have to empty
> the RV Piggy Bank. Any referals/suggestions?
>
> Thanks.
> RC
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger. IM
> on your terms.
> <http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_062008>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "don wentz" <dasduck(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | New Light Upgrades |
RV-Listers,
I posted this information to the RV-10 list in response to a discussion, and
figured you would be interested in it as well.
We recently added 35w and 50w 'Low Cost' replacement HID lights (see our
'Upgrades' page).
We have the MR-16 2" HID lights for the Tips in both wattages.
We also have GE-H3 style HID lights that are simple, direct replacements for
the Halogen bulbs in our lights.
These lights work very well, in fact Joe Blank just installed a couple in
his old RMD style wing tips using my PAR-36 Reflectors with the Low Cost 35W
HID. He reported back that he has now lifted his self-imposed 'ban' on night
landings at his home strip, since the 4" HID lights work so well.
If you do have the MR-16 tip lights, the HID is far 'brighter', cooler, uses
less power, and doesn't burn out, making the HID version a great upgrade.
OH, and we have finally joined the modern world - we just enabled Credit
Card processing on our website, on the 'Upgrades' page initially.
Don 'The Duck' Wentz
Duckworks Aviation .com (since 1992)
RV-6 N790DW (flying since 1994)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Leonard" <wdleonard(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cracks in Horizontal stabiliser anyone?? |
I know of at least one RV-7 builder who had an issue with cracking there and
decided to rebuild his h-stab. Van's did make a change in the plans
regarding better stress relief (a rounded notch) in that that area. The
change in plans showed up sometime after Sept 2001.
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 12:55 PM, sheldon barrett
wrote:
> >
>
> Nothing on Van's website 'Letters, Service Bulletins, and Revisions' list
> indicates this...
> http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/notices.htm
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mick Muller" <mmul6471(at)bigpond.net.au>
> To: "RV FORUM"
> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 3:58 AM
> Subject: RV-List: Cracks in Horizontal stabiliser anyone??
>
>
>>
>> Howdy All,
>>
>> I heard a rumour that Vans has an issue with cracks in the front spar
>> of the Horizontal stabiliser on the RV6. It seems that the area just above
>> the
>> attach point at the front where the HS602 spar has had the flanges
>> cut off has developed cracks down to the first rivet where the edges
>> have been filed down. The RV9A which I am building has the same set up,
>> and I was
>> wondering if the same issue may arise. Has anyone heard of this
>> happening on the RV6 or other RV's????
>> I am thinking about putting in some sort of doubler plate in this area.
>> Mick
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mick Muller" <mmul6471(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Cracks in Horizontol Stabiliser |
I posted two days ago about problems with cracks in the HS on Rv's. I am
now aware of an RV6 and an RV6A that both have cracks in the corner of the
HS just inboard of the first rib. The crack is in the thin walled channel
that is on the aft side of the front spar. The common denominator is that
both planes were early QB kits.
I have attached some pictures (not very good) of one of them.
Mick
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ethanol experience? |
In a message dated 6/22/2008 8:37:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
diehldon(at)comcast.net writes:
Has anyone out there used ethanol "enhanced" mogas?
Been using it in my -4 for about 5 or 6 years (I think), summer and winter.
Less fouling and easier winter starting. Runs fine. Having issues with the 19
year old tanks though.
Jim
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tailgummer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Hangar space available at CNO |
Posting this for a friend, Frank Vranicar. L-19 and Skytyper pilot:
50 X 50 Hangar to Share:
Looking for an RV or similar type airplane, or builder, for a one third
share of a 50 X 50 Hangar @ CNO. Enclosed head, utility sink, 110 and 220-volt
power. Your share, $361 per month, including utilities. Call 714 323 3424
John D'Onofrio
RV8
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ethanol experience? |
I don't know John, my cars have been running on mogas with 10% ethanol
full time for the last 10 years(required for Phoenix non-attainment
area). They get better than EPA rated gas mileage on the ethanol blend.
I've used gasahol off and on for 15 years prior to it being required.
Never had a driveability problem with it on carb or injected engines.
That includes mostly German Bosch injected engines. So I'm kind of at a
loss why you should have that result. OTOH, I've stayed with stock OEM
eproms.
Kelly
John Cox wrote:
>
> My wife's BMW740i just got new plugs and Techron injector cleaner to
> improve mileage and idle roughness. The car purred, she was happy.
> Filled up at Costco (she needs Premium due to a high performance eprom
> chip). Mileage dropped from 20.3 to 17.8.
>
>
>
> Boy did she bitch. Now I can tell her see, four farmers and our
> congressmen are happy you are saving the environment and spending more
> on gas which jumped $0.07 since before I corrected the idle roughness.
>
>
>
> Just can't win.
>
>
>
> John Cox
>
> Oregon
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bert murillo <robertrv607(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi:
I am thinking of Installing, or changing to the" Approach Fast Stack
System" maybe th8is way I can get read of the communications problem
I have with my King 120..
Would like to hear comments of any one with the system, how difficult
would be? you know how cramped is underneath..and Rv6A
Do you remove all other wires, radio Transponder etc?
How about the "HUB" where do you hold that,,,fabricate a bracket then
where... is almost no room right now for me...
The wires are 24 inches are they long enough to reach Radio Transponder
etc...?
Thanks for any info or pictures etc.. on this...
Bert
rv6a
Dop not Archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> |
It comes with it's own mounting bracket. You provide dimenaions and they custome
make the wiring harness tht plug directly into your equipment.
The harnesses have pigtails for power. I redid my panel , took all the old wiring
out and spent less than an hour installing the hub and harnesses.
Have 2 EFISs, audio, com/nav and transponder.
You also get pigtails for PTT and AP disconnect.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189731#189731
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jason Hills <jason(at)hills.org> |
I'm really happy with my Approach Fast Stack System. I installed it
when I had to replace my transponder and altitude encoder. With
eventual plans to add more to it if/when I can afford the Garmin 430 I
really want. Right now my audio panel, com and nav radios are all
still with their original wiring. I'd have to switch them all over all
at once as they are all interconnected. But the transponder/altitude
encoder is its own system.
Wiring the new transponder and encoder probably took me less than 2
hrs including installing the hub. It's REALLY simple. You can order
the wires at the lengths you want. I was surprised that they can be
rather short. Extra length has to get "coiled" somewhere and is a bit
messy, that's the only real downside of the system in my opinion (i.e.
a nicely done wiring harness will look prettier). But if you have
plans to upgrade/change things out in the future, the Fast Stack is
the only way to go in my opinion.
As was already mentioned, you do have some pigtails to connect, i.e.
ground, power, instrument lights/dimmer, etc, but it way simpler than
doing the wiring the hard way.
You'll definitely want to figure out where you'll put the hub before
ordering. I measured and found a spot that would work for my plane.
I'm sure every panel is different enough that you'll have to figure
out what will work for your plane.
...Jason
KIS TR-1c (w/ the Approach Fast Stack)
RV-8 (building...wings)
On Jun 24, 2008, at 9:38 AM, bert murillo wrote:
Hi:
I am thinking of Installing, or changing to the" Approach Fast Stack
System" maybe th8is way I can get read of the communications problem
I have with my King 120..
Would like to hear comments of any one with the system, how difficult
would be? you know how cramped is underneath..and Rv6A
Do you remove all other wires, radio Transponder etc?
How about the "HUB" where do you hold that,,,fabricate a bracket then
where... is almost no room right now for me...
The wires are 24 inches are they long enough to reach Radio Transponder
etc...?
Thanks for any info or pictures etc.. on this...
Bert
rv6a
Dop not Archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> |
| Subject: | Ethanol experience? |
We did a special radio show on ethanol last Saturday. I just got up the
archive at www.flighttimeradio.com. Go to the archives tab on the left or
go to the podcast tab and downolad the podcast. We had a few expert guests
on the show with some very good information.
Brian Kraut
Flighttime Radio Show
www.flighttimeradio.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of JFLEISC(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 9:23 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Ethanol experience?
In a message dated 6/22/2008 8:37:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
diehldon(at)comcast.net writes:
Has anyone out there used ethanol "enhanced" mogas?
Been using it in my -4 for about 5 or 6 years (I think), summer and
winter. Less fouling and easier winter starting. Runs fine. Having issues
with the 19 year old tanks though.
Jim
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used
cars.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> |
| Subject: | Ethanol experience? |
We did a special radio show on ethanol last Saturday. I just got up the
archive at www.flighttimeradio.com. Go to the archives tab on the left or
go to the podcast tab and downolad the podcast. We had a few expert guests
on the show with some very good information.
Brian Kraut
Flighttime Radio Show
www.flighttimeradio.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of JFLEISC(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 9:23 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Ethanol experience?
In a message dated 6/22/2008 8:37:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
diehldon(at)comcast.net writes:
Has anyone out there used ethanol "enhanced" mogas?
Been using it in my -4 for about 5 or 6 years (I think), summer and
winter. Less fouling and easier winter starting. Runs fine. Having issues
with the 19 year old tanks though.
Jim
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used
cars.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Good used O-540 engines for sale |
| From: | evmeg(at)snowcrest.net |
Ok guys, I had a ton of response on my post about an engine we have, but
got frustrated in my efforts to get ahold of the engine logs. I did
finally get them (there are 2 engines available). Short story is an Aero
Commander got smashed up by a goofball in a van so the airframe got
scrapped and the engines are good used mid time and complete. The
accesories are there, but you will want to replace the old heavy starters
and generators. No damage history on either engine. The airplane was being
flown in part 135 for a fire watch and was subject to 100 hour
inspections. At least at the time of the incident aprox. 2 years ago
everything was in compliance. The lycoming crank AD's are covered. We just
borrowed a boroscope and had a look inside and it all appears super clean
inside. They are both O-540-A2B models. The left engine has 930 hours
since TBO (serial RL 10791-40) and the right engine has 992 since TBO
(serial RL 15696-40). I was planning on using one on my RV 10, but I had
to sell the project and start over on a 9A. You can look up the airplane
if you like, the tail number is N55BW. Asking price is $13K each as is
where is. They are on pallets and we have a forklift to load them.
Feel free to email or call with questions.
Evan Johnson
evmeg(at)snowcrest.net
(530)351-1776 cell
---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using SnowCrest WebMail.
http://www.snowcrest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Fasching" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com> |
| Subject: | King School Instrument Written Exam Course - compare notes |
I am in the middle of the King Instrument written prep course and ran
into a problem with their software that they can't seem to resolve
either... I would like to contact someone else now taking the course or
still has it from previous work, to compare an oddity that neither I nor
the King folks seem to be able to fix. I just want to determine what
other course materials others have received that may or may not perform
as mine is doing (or more exactly, not doing.)
It won't take long and might help me a lot. Thanks if you spare a moment
and have the course.
John
n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marty Helller <marty_away(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | King School Instrument Written Exam Course - compare notes |
If you just want to know the questions in the FAA database, you can find th
em here:
http://www.faa.gov/education_research/testing/airmen/test_questions/
Marty Heller
RV-7 (it's got legs now)
FAA's WAAS office when not building...
From: n1cxo320(at)salidaco.comTo: rv-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RV-List: King
School Instrument Written Exam Course - compare notesDate: Fri, 27 Jun 2008
I am in the middle of the King Instrument written prep course and ran into
a problem with their software that they can't seem to resolve either... I w
ould like to contact someone else now taking the course or still has it fro
m previous work, to compare an oddity that neither I nor the King folks see
m to be able to fix. I just want to determine what other course materials o
thers have received that may or may not perform as mine is doing (or more e
xactly, not doing.)
It won't take long and might help me a lot. Thanks if you spare a moment an
d have the course.
John
n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com
_________________________________________________________________
The other season of giving begins 6/24/08. Check out the i=92m Talkathon.
http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_SeasonOfGiving
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel tank sealant available |
All, I finished sealing my fuel tanks and since there is a 2 week waiting
time after ordering the sealant I made sure I bought much more than I needed so
as not to run out during the job. It went much smoother than anticipated and
I have some left over. I have 2 unopened factory sealed pints (one RV-4 tank
took me one pint) of PPG P/S 890 B-2 available with a manufacturing date of
6/08. It states a 9 month shelf life. This is the "paste type" and I applied
it with a stiff brush. It has an application time of 2 hours (I mixed small
batches). After much research including what I learned from this group I found
this to be one of the few 'ProSeal' products to specifically list in it's
tech sheet that it has the same resistance to alcohol as fuel (I like the option
to run Mogas) (see the link below for the PPG tech sheet). I understand that
many of the newly formulated sealants are alcohol resistant also however
those that I read the tech sheets of made no specific mention of alcohol. It
cost me $55 a pint and I will sell to whoever may be interested for $55 for the
2 pints plus shipping. If interested email me at _jfleisc(at)aol.com_
(mailto:jfleisc(at)aol.com) .
Jim
_http://buyat.ppg.com/REP_aerospace_files/Sealants/890b.pdf_
(http://buyat.ppg.com/REP_aerospace_files/Sealants/890b.pdf)
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank sealant available |
JFLEISC(at)aol.com wrote:
> All, I finished sealing my fuel tanks and since there is a 2 week
> waiting time after ordering the sealant I made sure I bought much more
> than I needed so as not to run out during the job. It went much
> smoother than anticipated and I have some left over. I have 2 unopened
> factory sealed pints (one RV-4 tank took me one pint) of PPG P/S 890
> B-2 available with a manufacturing date of 6/08. It states a 9 month
> shelf life. This is the "paste type" and I applied it with a stiff
> brush. It has an application time of 2 hours (I mixed small batches).
> After much research including what I learned from this group I found
> this to be one of the few 'ProSeal' products to specifically list in
> it's tech sheet that it has the same resistance to alcohol as fuel (I
> like the option to run Mogas) (see the link below for the PPG tech
> sheet). I understand that many of the newly formulated sealants are
> alcohol resistant also however those that I read the tech sheets of
> made no specific mention of alcohol. It cost me $55 a pint and I will
> sell to whoever may be interested for $55 for the 2 pints plus
> shipping. If interested email me at jfleisc(at)aol.com
> .
>
> Jim
>
> http://buyat.ppg.com/REP_aerospace_files/Sealants/890b.pdf
Actually, the link you sent says:
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank sealant available |
| From: | Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au> |
> I understand that many of the newly formulated sealants are alcohol
> resistant also however those that I read the tech sheets of made no
> specific mention of alcohol.
This 'manganese dioxide cured polysulfide compound' is good ol'
Proseal.
I believe DeSoto and it's previous incarnation (whose name escapes me
for the moment) was the original manufacturer of the product. Like me
the folk in these companies have never changed jobs but have worked for
a string of different corporations.
Doug Gray
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank sealant available |
In a message dated 6/28/2008 6:55:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au writes:
This 'manganese dioxide cured polysulfide compound' is good ol'
Proseal.
I believe DeSoto and it's previous incarnation (whose name escapes me
for the moment) was the original manufacturer of the product.
"The product"? I went to their site and under 'sealants' there are quite a
few "products", all going by the name "ProSeal' (or P/S) with different suffix
numbers depending on the characteristics. Its not the same number "proseal"
that, for instance, Aircraft Spruce sells. Which one is the 'good ol' stuff?
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Will Allen" <will(at)flipsideaerobatics.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 tail and mostly unfinished wings for sale |
RV8 completed tail and 15% completed wings for sale. Hoping for kit
price or
best reasonable offer. Usual story, no time to finish cause I=92m flying
aerobatics too much ;) can give more info and pics on request.
Oh, I=92m in the Seattle area.
Thanks,
Will Allen
(425) 785-9922
will(at)flipsideaerobatics.com
www.flipsideaerobatics.com
Checked by AVG.
6/28/2008
7:00 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank sealant available |
| From: | Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au> |
> Which one is the 'good ol' stuff?
MIL-S-8802 Was the original specification. Manufacturers complied with
the spec or did not get the gig. My original quart cans from Vans were
marked with the Mil-STD reference.
This standard covers a number of variations, I would be surprised if the
PRC product line had variations beyond these.
I believe manufacture is limited to a small number of plants if not one
only with the real industry being repackaging the product. Hence we see
it appearing under a host of labels and package types at corresponding
markups.
Yes you are correct - it might well have been tweaked along the way
especially after the mil-stds were transferred to industry.
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank sealant available |
In a message dated 6/29/2008 3:08:19 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au writes:
Yes you are correct - it might well have been tweaked along the way
especially after the mil-stds were transferred to industry.
Therein lies the issue; In my research I came across a lot of "mights,
maybes, or rumors". I am also reasonably sure that they, as you say, are all if
not pretty close to the same, but to be sure I went with the data sheets and
very few referenced alcohol. At least with the ones that do, I have it in
writing as being tested for it.
Jim
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank sealant available |
I don't know the full history of the sealant, but from a couple updates
to the Mooney manuals I can ascertain that in 1966 they were spec-ing
PR1221-B-4, mil spec 7502C, while by 1981 the spec changed to PR1422-B2,
mil spec 8802, which remains their standard today.
Doug Gray wrote:
>
>
>> Which one is the 'good ol' stuff?
>>
>
> MIL-S-8802 Was the original specification. Manufacturers complied with
> the spec or did not get the gig. My original quart cans from Vans were
> marked with the Mil-STD reference.
>
> This standard covers a number of variations, I would be surprised if the
> PRC product line had variations beyond these.
>
> I believe manufacture is limited to a small number of plants if not one
> only with the real industry being repackaging the product. Hence we see
> it appearing under a host of labels and package types at corresponding
> markups.
>
> Yes you are correct - it might well have been tweaked along the way
> especially after the mil-stds were transferred to industry.
>
> Doug
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Rice <rice737(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | OT: help looking for a part |
Hey Chris,
Also in the sailing world, they make deck bushings for just such a perpose.
Go on line to search them out. How big a hole do have in the cabinet.
Paul
Rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RICHARD MILLER <rickpegser(at)yahoo.com> |
EVERYBODY NEEDS TO READ THE SB 3-08 IT REQUIRES THREE TEARDOWN INSPECTION IN THE
FIRST FIFTY HRS FOR ALL NEW SLICKS.
RICK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com> |
Where is this located?
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RICHARD MILLER
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 6:13 PM
Subject: RV-List: SLICK MAGS
EVERYBODY NEEDS TO READ THE SB 3-08 IT REQUIRES THREE TEARDOWN INSPECTION IN
THE FIRST FIFTY HRS FOR ALL NEW SLICKS.
RICK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
http://www.qualityaa.com/SB3-08_Carbon_Brush.pdf
John Jessen wrote:
> Where is this located?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *RICHARD
> MILLER
> *Sent:* Monday, June 30, 2008 6:13 PM
> *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV-List: SLICK MAGS
>
> EVERYBODY NEEDS TO READ THE SB 3-08 IT REQUIRES THREE TEARDOWN
> INSPECTION IN THE FIRST FIFTY HRS FOR ALL NEW SLICKS.
>
> RICK
>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Certified IO-360-A1B6 vs. Experimental XIO-360-A1B6 |
So Lycoming is now making a non-certified "X" version of the IO-360 and the claims
are "its exactly the same engine, just without the paperwork and its cheaper".
But is this really all true? I read that the X model has a clone injector
instead of the Bendix injector as on the cert version. That seems like a pretty
big difference. Does it matter? What else about the X model is "almost"
the same?
Am I just being too cynical about the X model? Is it just as good an engine as
the cert version? Should one just save some money, or is the extra $6k worth
it even in an RV application?
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> |
| Subject: | Certified IO-360-A1B6 vs. Experimental XIO-360-A1B6 |
Matt,
Precision Airmotive gave a big lecture at the last IA seminar about the
difference between the certified injector and the experimental version:
the label and the price.
Even if Lyc is using an Airflow injector, which I doubt, I'd save the money
in a heartbeat (Airflow makes great systems too).
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:19 AM
Subject: RV-List: Certified IO-360-A1B6 vs. Experimental XIO-360-A1B6
So Lycoming is now making a non-certified "X" version of the IO-360 and the
claims are "its exactly the same engine, just without the paperwork and its
cheaper". But is this really all true? I read that the X model has a clone
injector instead of the Bendix injector as on the cert version. That seems
like a pretty big difference. Does it matter? What else about the X model
is "almost" the same?
Am I just being too cynical about the X model? Is it just as good an engine
as the cert version? Should one just save some money, or is the extra $6k
worth it even in an RV application?
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Certified IO-360-A1B6 vs. Experimental XIO-360-A1B6 |
I'd bet Lycoming is using the Precision "Silver Hawk" fuel injection
unit, which is their experimental version of the tried and true RSA
series of certified injection systems.
Compare Lycoming's price( or Van's price) against what the independent
shops assembling Lycoming kits charge:
Barrett Precision, AeroSport, Mattituck, etc. The latter shops I believe
can offer you choices on fuel and ignition systems that are not
available on the factory engine.
Kelly
Dave Saylor wrote:
>
> Matt,
>
> Precision Airmotive gave a big lecture at the last IA seminar about the
> difference between the certified injector and the experimental version:
> the label and the price.
>
> Even if Lyc is using an Airflow injector, which I doubt, I'd save the money
> in a heartbeat (Airflow makes great systems too).
>
> Dave Saylor
> AirCrafters LLC
> 140 Aviation Way
> Watsonville, CA
> 831-722-9141
> 831-750-0284 CL
> www.AirCraftersLLC.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:19 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Certified IO-360-A1B6 vs. Experimental XIO-360-A1B6
>
>
> So Lycoming is now making a non-certified "X" version of the IO-360 and the
> claims are "its exactly the same engine, just without the paperwork and its
> cheaper". But is this really all true? I read that the X model has a clone
> injector instead of the Bendix injector as on the cert version. That seems
> like a pretty big difference. Does it matter? What else about the X model
> is "almost" the same?
>
> Am I just being too cynical about the X model? Is it just as good an engine
> as the cert version? Should one just save some money, or is the extra $6k
> worth it even in an RV application?
>
> Matt
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Certified IO-360-A1B6 vs. Experimental XIO-360-A1B6 |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 1:19 PM
Subject: RV-List: Certified IO-360-A1B6 vs. Experimental XIO-360-A1B6
So Lycoming is now making a non-certified "X" version of the IO-360 and the
claims are "its exactly the same engine, just without the paperwork and its
cheaper". But is this really all true? I read that the X model has a clone
injector instead of the Bendix injector as on the cert version. That seems
like a pretty big difference. Does it matter? What else about the X model
is "almost" the same?
Am I just being too cynical about the X model? Is it just as good an engine
as the cert version? Should one just save some money, or is the extra $6k
worth it even in an RV application?
Matt
Matt: Barrett watches this list and may respond to your questions. I have
been given to underestand that the engines are the same as the certificated
engines, at least from the functional standpoint. Not all engine builders
are authorized to build the "X" engines, but those who are include Barrett
Performance, G & N Aircraft and Aerosport Power. Barrett was one of the
initiators of the process and could answer any questions you have. For
backup info you could call Dennis Wyman at G & N. I have a 390 on the RV-8
that is under construction, similar to the IO360A1B6. The engine builder can
provide such accessories as you request and that could include choices of
starters, ignition, fuel injection and prop governor location. The Silver
Hawk FI is functionally identical to the Bendix RSA that Precision also
makes but is built using CNC machined parts instead of castings. I don't
know about Barrett and the others, but G & N will provide you with ignition
of your choice, i.e. Mags, E-Mags, Lightspeed, Precision Eagle. I ordered
mine with a B & C starter and initially with 1 E-mag, 1 P-mag and the Silver
Hawk FI. Dyno runs were made with them. I later changed to the Precision
Eagle integrated fuel and ignition systems, and another set of dyno runs
were made with the Eagle. The injectors are timed pulse, the throttle body
is a bore with a butterfly and two temperature and two pressure taps. No
venturi. Comparing the price I paid to G & N with Van's new engine prices
clearly favors the "X"
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Certified IO-360-A1B6 vs. Experimental XIO-360-A1B6 |
| From: | "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> |
Lycoming is a big company and certainly has deep enough pockets to get the attention
of trial Lawyers. Certified or not if ever there is an accident the ends
up in court they will be held to the same standard as if it were a certfied engine.
I am relativelypositive the engine is just as good if not better than
certified.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190854#190854
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Certified IO-360-A1B6 vs. Experimental XIO-360-A1B6 |
| From: | "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com> |
Responses to this thread have been right on target, the Silverhawk
system is just like the RSA-5. The thing to keep in mind is that if you
get the certified or XIO engine from the factory, that's what you get --
an assembly line engine built at the factory with no options on
accessories (starter, fuel system, or ignition.) None of the extra
touches like balancing, port work, etc. will be done on the engine.
Cylinders will come straight out of the box and put on the engine. The
engine will be run on a test stand for around 30 minutes with no
information delivered to you about how the engine performed during test.
All of our customers get the dynamometer data with the engine, so you
know what the engine was doing during the initial 1.5 hours of test
time.
One of the biggest differences when you go with one of the quality
experimental kit shops is the follow up customer service. If you are at
installation and have a problem, someone who is familiar with your
engine and airframe is available to answer questions or help you trouble
shoot your problem. 10-15 hours in the air and you have questions about
CHT or oil temps, you call and we're there to help. You simply won't
get that personal level of service if you purchase a factory engine,
certified or otherwise.
On a personal note, Matt, if you are considering the -A1B6 for an
airframe, I would really encourage you to look at the -390. Same
footprint as the -A1B6, 10-15 additional hp with stock compression, 9
extra lbs. and about the same cost from us as the XIO-360-A1B6 from the
factory.
Rhonda Barrett-Bewley
Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
2870-B N. Sheridan Rd.
Tulsa, OK 74115
(918) 835-1089 phone
(918) 835-1754 fax
www.barrettprecisionengines.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Certified IO-360-A1B6 vs. Experimental
XIO-360-A1B6
I'd bet Lycoming is using the Precision "Silver Hawk" fuel injection
unit, which is their experimental version of the tried and true RSA
series of certified injection systems.
Compare Lycoming's price( or Van's price) against what the independent
shops assembling Lycoming kits charge:
Barrett Precision, AeroSport, Mattituck, etc. The latter shops I believe
can offer you choices on fuel and ignition systems that are not
available on the factory engine.
Kelly
Dave Saylor wrote:
>
> Matt,
>
> Precision Airmotive gave a big lecture at the last IA seminar about
the
> difference between the certified injector and the experimental
version:
> the label and the price.
>
> Even if Lyc is using an Airflow injector, which I doubt, I'd save the
money
> in a heartbeat (Airflow makes great systems too).
>
> Dave Saylor
> AirCrafters LLC
> 140 Aviation Way
> Watsonville, CA
> 831-722-9141
> 831-750-0284 CL
> www.AirCraftersLLC.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:19 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Certified IO-360-A1B6 vs. Experimental XIO-360-A1B6
>
>
> So Lycoming is now making a non-certified "X" version of the IO-360
and the
> claims are "its exactly the same engine, just without the paperwork
and its
> cheaper". But is this really all true? I read that the X model has a
clone
> injector instead of the Bendix injector as on the cert version. That
seems
> like a pretty big difference. Does it matter? What else about the X
model
> is "almost" the same?
>
> Am I just being too cynical about the X model? Is it just as good an
engine
> as the cert version? Should one just save some money, or is the extra
$6k
> worth it even in an RV application?
>
> Matt
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Rice <rice737(at)msn.com> |
I have the slick mags on my TMX IO-360 as well as the ECI cylinders and had
the Superior Ryton sump. The ryton sump I can understand being taken off t
he market=2C it was truely experimental=2C but the other parts are 1920's t
echnology and they still can't get it right. I use to always buy American
=2C but purchesedmy first Jap car last year after a bad experience with an
American type. Now all this too. I just doesn't seem to stop. Maybe we h
ave lost all our engineering and manufacturing ability here. Maybe Honda o
r Toyota will start to make an engine for our RV's Paul RiceRV8 85 hours so
far.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Certified IO-360-A1B6 vs. Experimental XIO-360-A1B6 |
Perfect response Rhonda!
I called BPA many times during the FWF process and flight testing and
spoke with Allen Barrett to get my questions answered. BPA even shipped
miscellaneous parts at premium shipping to supply needed
material/hardware. I can't say enough...they do what they say and they
are there for the customer...period! The 390 is a beast when it comes to
speed & power, yet extremely smooth. No regrets here and already
thinking about the next project and a BPA engine...HRII maybe.
Bill Gill
RV-7 N151WP IO-390
Lee's Summit, MO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rhonda Bewley
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 8:51 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Certified IO-360-A1B6 vs. Experimental
XIO-360-A1B6
Responses to this thread have been right on target, the Silverhawk
system is just like the RSA-5. The thing to keep in mind is that if you
get the certified or XIO engine from the factory, that's what you get --
an assembly line engine built at the factory with no options on
accessories (starter, fuel system, or ignition.) None of the extra
touches like balancing, port work, etc. will be done on the engine.
Cylinders will come straight out of the box and put on the engine. The
engine will be run on a test stand for around 30 minutes with no
information delivered to you about how the engine performed during test.
All of our customers get the dynamometer data with the engine, so you
know what the engine was doing during the initial 1.5 hours of test
time.
One of the biggest differences when you go with one of the quality
experimental kit shops is the follow up customer service. If you are at
installation and have a problem, someone who is familiar with your
engine and airframe is available to answer questions or help you trouble
shoot your problem. 10-15 hours in the air and you have questions about
CHT or oil temps, you call and we're there to help. You simply won't
get that personal level of service if you purchase a factory engine,
certified or otherwise.
On a personal note, Matt, if you are considering the -A1B6 for an
airframe, I would really encourage you to look at the -390. Same
footprint as the -A1B6, 10-15 additional hp with stock compression, 9
extra lbs. and about the same cost from us as the XIO-360-A1B6 from the
factory.
Rhonda Barrett-Bewley
Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
2870-B N. Sheridan Rd.
Tulsa, OK 74115
(918) 835-1089 phone
(918) 835-1754 fax
www.barrettprecisionengines.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Certified IO-360-A1B6 vs. Experimental
XIO-360-A1B6
I'd bet Lycoming is using the Precision "Silver Hawk" fuel injection
unit, which is their experimental version of the tried and true RSA
series of certified injection systems.
Compare Lycoming's price( or Van's price) against what the independent
shops assembling Lycoming kits charge:
Barrett Precision, AeroSport, Mattituck, etc. The latter shops I believe
can offer you choices on fuel and ignition systems that are not
available on the factory engine.
Kelly
Dave Saylor wrote:
>
> Matt,
>
> Precision Airmotive gave a big lecture at the last IA seminar about
the
> difference between the certified injector and the experimental
version:
> the label and the price.
>
> Even if Lyc is using an Airflow injector, which I doubt, I'd save the
money
> in a heartbeat (Airflow makes great systems too).
>
> Dave Saylor
> AirCrafters LLC
> 140 Aviation Way
> Watsonville, CA
> 831-722-9141
> 831-750-0284 CL
> www.AirCraftersLLC.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:19 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Certified IO-360-A1B6 vs. Experimental XIO-360-A1B6
>
>
> So Lycoming is now making a non-certified "X" version of the IO-360
and the
> claims are "its exactly the same engine, just without the paperwork
and its
> cheaper". But is this really all true? I read that the X model has a
clone
> injector instead of the Bendix injector as on the cert version. That
seems
> like a pretty big difference. Does it matter? What else about the X
model
> is "almost" the same?
>
> Am I just being too cynical about the X model? Is it just as good an
engine
> as the cert version? Should one just save some money, or is the extra
$6k
> worth it even in an RV application?
>
> Matt
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 7/2/2008 10:16:28 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
rice737(at)msn.com writes:
I use to always buy American, but purchased
my first Japanese car last year after a bad experience with an American type.
Now all this too. I just doesn't
seem to stop. Maybe we have lost all our engineering and manufacturing
ability here.
We're surely graduating more business types than engineers these days due to
the wage gap. Engineering used to be a valued profession and American
Industry WAS the best in the world. Nowadays, not so much.
Mech Engr now looking forward to retirement,
N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 897hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
HI All-
This slick mag debacle doesn't affect me directly, but something occurs to
me that might be of use. A couple of you have written very good and
insightful notes on this subject. Suppose you sent them to Aviation
Consumer, their sister mx rag, Flying, AOPA Pilot, Kitplanes, et al as Op
Ed pieces. That way, the issue will be out in the open pre-Oshkosh. Well,
as I type this, it occurs to me that none of them will get into print by
the time OSH comes around, except perhaps via Barnstormers and AvWeb. In
any case, you guys could document the situation in public prior to the
event. If anything happens enr to or fro the convention, your concerns
will have been registered before hand. Hopefully, this situation will
trigger a pre-emptive action on slick's part. If not, your efforts will no
doubt be of great assistance to anyone going to court.
Just a thought-
glen matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shemp <shempdowling(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Dynon draining battery? |
My aircraft battery doesnt seem to be keeping charge as well as it used
to, and its new. I am hearing a rythmic ticking at a one second
interval sometimes but not always, with the master off. I have my Dynon
D-10A wired to charge the internal battery without the master being on.
Just wondering if anyone else has heard this mysterious ticking or
noticed a battery drain with their Dynon.
Shemp
Wesley Robinson wrote:
> EAA Chapter 731 is holding their Spring Fly-in at Hickory (KHKY) this
> Saturday.
>
> There will be an award for best RV!
>
> See their website for more info: http://www.eaa731.org
>
> Wesley T Robinson
> RV-9A N224WR 'The Red Baron'
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon draining battery? |
Check your hobbs on the dynon... does it appear to be gaining time with
the master off? If so, then you may have the dynon keep alive wired
incorrectly...
-Bill
Shemp wrote:
>
> My aircraft battery doesnt seem to be keeping charge as well as it
> used to, and its new. I am hearing a rythmic ticking at a one second
> interval sometimes but not always, with the master off. I have my
> Dynon D-10A wired to charge the internal battery without the master
> being on. Just wondering if anyone else has heard this mysterious
> ticking or noticed a battery drain with their Dynon.
>
> Shemp
>
>
> Wesley Robinson wrote:
>> EAA Chapter 731 is holding their Spring Fly-in at Hickory (KHKY) this
>> Saturday.
>>
>> There will be an award for best RV!
>>
>> See their website for more info: http://www.eaa731.org
>>
>> Wesley T Robinson
>> RV-9A N224WR 'The Red Baron'
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rveighta <rveighta(at)earthlink.net> |
Guys, I have an unpainted, flying RV8 with 35 hours on it for sale. It has a new
O-360 A1A, Hartzell constant speed prop, Unison Lasar ignition system, an SL-30
Nav/Com, an SL-70 xponder, two axis autopilot and a full panel of steam gauges.
Total cost of QB kit, engine, prop, etc, less labor, is around $85-90k.
I am asking $92,500.
The aircraft is unpainted, and some cosmetics (fiberglass filling on wheel pants
& intersection fairings, etc) still need attention. My reason for selling is
that I have two planes (also have an RV8A) too little funds, and I want to move
on to building a light sport aircraft.
Interested parties can contact me offline at: rveighta(at)earthlink.net for pictures
and additional information.
Walt Shipley
Chuckey, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Duane Bentley" <dbentley(at)fuse.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Draining Battery? |
Yes, I've had the problem. I purchased one of the early Dynon models,
about 6 years ago. I had it back to the company 2-3 times before first
flight with several developmental issues, but received great support.
During the first year of flight time, I shut down the aircraft normally
one evening and as I was exiting the hangar, I noticed a light from the
canopy and found that the Dynon was running (still). I manually shut it
down, but found that it turned itself back on again. Knowing it would
drain the battery completely, I disconnected it from the buss. After
calling Dynon, they suggested that the keep alive circuit was
malfunctioning. They told me I could send the unit back again for
investigation, or cut the wire from the aircraft power to the backup
internal Dynon battery. I did so, and have never had a problem since.
Duane Bentley
RV6 300 hours
N515DB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shemp <shempdowling(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Aero Lift For Sale |
I purchased my aero lift to use in my hangar house that I never built.
It was used as the factory demonstrator at OshKosh for 7 days and has
never been used since. The cost for a new one is $11,500 plus shipping
(easily $1000). Im selling it for 8900. Its good for both nose and
tail wheel a/c. Here's the company website.
http://www.armaerospace.com/. Its in the Chicgoland area.
JFLEISC(at)aol.com wrote:
> All, I finished sealing my fuel tanks and since there is a 2 week
> waiting time after ordering the sealant I made sure I bought much more
> than I needed so as not to run out during the job. It went much
> smoother than anticipated and I have some left over. I have 2 unopened
> factory sealed pints (one RV-4 tank took me one pint) of PPG P/S 890
> B-2 available with a manufacturing date of 6/08. It states a 9 month
> shelf life. This is the "paste type" and I applied it with a stiff
> brush. It has an application time of 2 hours (I mixed small batches).
> After much research including what I learned from this group I found
> this to be one of the few 'ProSeal' products to specifically list in
> it's tech sheet that it has the same resistance to alcohol as fuel (I
> like the option to run Mogas) (see the link below for the PPG tech
> sheet). I understand that many of the newly formulated sealants are
> alcohol resistant also however those that I read the tech sheets of
> made no specific mention of alcohol. It cost me $55 a pint and I will
> sell to whoever may be interested for $55 for the 2 pints plus
> shipping. If interested email me at jfleisc(at)aol.com
> .
>
> Jim
>
> http://buyat.ppg.com/REP_aerospace_files/Sealants/890b.pdf
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used
> cars <http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007>.
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Camloc button latch for oil door |
I have the latch - I need instructions....
Do I need to reinforce the area where the latch strikes? How far from the
striker is it mounted.
Any details with specific numbers would be appreciated.
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Will Allen" <will(at)flipsideaerobatics.com> |
| Subject: | Places to list RV8 kit for sale? |
Can anyone guide me to the best place to advertise my tail and wing kit
that
I=92m trying to sell? I=92m not sure if craigslist would hit the right
people.
Will Allen
(425) 785-9922
will(at)flipsideaerobatics.com
www.flipsideaerobatics.com
Checked by AVG.
10:15 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Camloc button latch for oil door |
In a message dated 7/5/2008 5:39:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
recapen(at)earthlink.net writes:
I have the latch - I need instructions....
Do I need to reinforce the area where the latch strikes? How far from the
striker is it mounted.
Ralph-
I did rivet a .040" thick sheet U shaped aluminum ledge along three sides of
the cutout in the cowling to both stop the door and give some meat for the
latches (I've got two for redundancy) to bear on. I extended it out into the
opening about .250" on the three edges and it engages nicely and positively.
N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 897hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Reginald C. Smith, Sr." <smirdrv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Places to list RV8 kit for sale? |
Barnstormers is one of the best places to advertise... Folks from all over
the country see the ads. try them: www.barnstormers.com
RC.
RV-6 Wings/Tail
starting fuselage.
From: will(at)flipsideaerobatics.comTo: rv8-list(at)matronics.com=3B rv-list@matr
onics.comSubject: RV-List: Places to list RV8 kit for sale?Date: Sat=2C 5 J
Can anyone guide me to the best place to advertise my tail and wing kit tha
t I=92m trying to sell? I=92m not sure if craigslist would hit the right pe
ople.
Will Allen
(425) 785-9922
will(at)flipsideaerobatics.com
www.flipsideaerobatics.com
_________________________________________________________________
The i=92m Talkaton. Can 30-days of conversation change the world?
http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_ChangeWorld
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Places to list RV8 kit for sale? |
Places to list RV8 kit for sale?vansairforce.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Will Allen
To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com ; rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 8:19 PM
Subject: RV-List: Places to list RV8 kit for sale?
Can anyone guide me to the best place to advertise my tail and wing
kit that I=92m trying to sell? I=92m not sure if craigslist would hit
the right people.
Will Allen
(425) 785-9922
will(at)flipsideaerobatics.com
www.flipsideaerobatics.com
Checked by AVG.
10:15 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Camloc button latch for oil door |
Gary,
Do you have any photos? Would a single latch do the job? My oil-door
'lip' is three layers of fiberglass bonded to the inside of the cowl -
it extends about 3/8" in the the opening. I have some .040 that I was
thinking about adding as a striker plate - but just in the center couple
of inches or so.
Your thoughts,
Ralph
----- Original Message -----
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Camloc button latch for oil door
In a message dated 7/5/2008 5:39:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
recapen(at)earthlink.net writes:
I have the latch - I need instructions....
Do I need to reinforce the area where the latch strikes? How far
from the
striker is it mounted.
Ralph-
I did rivet a .040" thick sheet U shaped aluminum ledge along three
sides of the cutout in the cowling to both stop the door and give some
meat for the latches (I've got two for redundancy) to bear on. I
extended it out into the opening about .250" on the three edges and it
engages nicely and positively.
N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 897hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used
cars.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Grove Streamlined Gear For RV-8... |
RV Listers,
Grove makes a streamlined, airfoiled landing gear for the RV-8. Saves having to
use the fiberglass. They also have the brake line embedded within the gear
leg. Over all, they weigh a few pounds less.
Does anyone have any experience with these gear legs? What is the cost differential
over the stock ones? Do they fit as good or better than stock?
Should an RV-8 builder bother with the hassle of deleting the stock ones from the
Van's kit and ordering these?
And another historic question... Why-o-why did Van's get away from the super sweet
looking swept-back, Whitman-style gear on the RV-8? The spring steel, forward
facing gear on the RV-8 just look dopy...
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Brown <dan(at)familybrown.org> |
| Subject: | FOR SALE: Isham RV Tool Kit with upgrades |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
For a variety of reasons, mostly relating to my being called to active
duty with the Army, I won't be able to complete my planned RV-7A.
Consequently, I'll need to sell my tools. This is the complete Isham
kit pictured at:
http://www.store-planetools.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=9
This kit includes a pneumatic rivet squeezer and the popular DRDT-2
dimpling tool.
In addition, the following extras are included:
Screw-adjustable Rivet Squeezer Ram (a $70 value)
Avery Longeron Yoke (a $150 value)
Avery Thin-nose (no-hole) Yoke (a $140 value)
Avery back-rivet plate (a $50 value)
Avery flush swivel rivet set (a $40 value)
A couple of additional countersink cutters
Additional side-grip clecos (about 10 extra of each, IIRC)
That's $450 in upgrades, in addition to the Isham set. All tools are in
excellent condition. The air drill is NOT, repeat NOT included;
everything else is.
This would cost nearly $3000 for these tools ordered new. I'll take
$2500 OBO, plus shipping. If you're local to Fayetteville, NC, you can
pick up. Contact me by e-mail at dan(at)familybrown.org if interested.
Thanks for your interest!
The following tools are included:
DRDT-2 Dimpler* (email for delivery date on DRDT-2)
Pneumatic Rivet Squeezer (U.S.A.)*
3 C-Yoke Installed on Squeezer (U.S.A.)*
Adjustable Set Holder for Pneumatic Squeezer (U.S.A.)*
3X Rivet Gun with excellent teasing trigger*
EZ change spring for straight rivet sets*
EZ Change Spring for flush sets (Snap-On Ind U.S.A.)*
Swivel and Air Flow Restrictor with fine precision adjustment*
1 Diameter Flush Rivet Set (Snap-On U.S.A.)*
3/32 Cupped Rivet Set 3.5 (Snap-On U.S.A.)*
1/8 Cupped Rivet Set 3.5 (Snap-On U.S.A.)*
3/16 Cupped Rivet Set 3.5 (Snap-On U.S.A.)*
1/8 Double Offset Rivet Set (Snap-On U.S.A.)*
Back Rivet Set* (Special Small 1/2" Diameter for RV's)
Mini-Bucking Bar, 1 lb. (Snap-On U.S.A.)*
Bulkhead Bucking Bar (Snap-On U.S.A.)*
Footed Bucking Bar (Snap-On U.S.A.)*
Microstop Countersink Unit, needle-bearing, non-chattering (U.S.A.)*
#40 Countersink Bit, 3/32 (Snap-On U.S.A.)*
#30 Countersink Bit, for 1/8 & #6 Screw (Snap-On U.S.A.)*
#8 Countersink Bit, #8 Screw (Snap-On U.S.A.)*
#10 Countersink Bit, #10 Screw (Snap-On U.S.A.)*
Left Cut Snips, easy to use offset type (Klein Tools U.S.A.)*
Right Cut Snips, easy to use offset type (Klein Tools U.S.A.)*
Straight Cut Snips, easy to use offset type (Klein Tools U.S.A.)*
#40 Aviation Cobalt Drill Bits for 3/32 rivets, 8 each
#30 Aviation Cobalt Drill Bits for 1/8 rivets, 6 each
#27 Aviation Cobalt Drill Bit
#21 Aviation Cobalt Drill Bit
#19 Aviation Cobalt Drill Bit
#12 Aviation Cobalt Drill Bit
1/4" Aviation Cobalt Drill Bit
12 Aviation Extra Long #40 Drill Bit
12 Aviation Extra Long #30 Drill Bit
Deburr Tool, Speed Handle Type for small & large holes (U.S.A.)*
Cleco Pliers*
4 Cleco Clamps, 1/2" (Calif Assoc Prod or Zephyr U.S.A.)*
4 Cleco Clamps, 1 (Calif Assoc Prod or Zephyr U.S.A.)*
Pop Rivet Tool, Professional Heavy-Duty unit with Swivel Head*
3/32" Universal Cupped Squeezer Set (Snap-On U.S.A.)*
1/8 Universal Cupped Squeezer Set (Snap-On U.S.A.)*
5/32" Universal Cupped Squeezer Set (Snap-On U.S.A.)*
3/16 Universal Cupped Squeezer Set (Snap-On U.S.A.)*
Flat Squeezer Set 1/8 (Snap-On U.S.A.)*
Flat Squeezer Set 1/4" (Snap-On U.S.A.)*
Flat Squeezer Set 3/8 (Snap-On U.S.A.)*
Flat Squeezer Set 1/2" (Snap-On U.S.A.)*
3/32 Rivet Dimple Die (Springback U.S.A.)*
1/8 Rivet Dimple Die (Springback U.S.A.)*
5/32" Dimple Die*
3/16" - #10 Screw Dimple Die*
#8 Screw Dimple Die*
#6 Screw Dimple Die*
Squeezer Set Organizer*
Squeezer Set Adjustment Washers *
Stainless Steel Rule, 12*
Unibit 1/4" - 3/4" by 1/16ths, (Klein U.S.A.)*
3 Permanent Markers, Sharpie
1/2 x 1 Reducers for 3M Wheel*
325 Cleco Fasteners, 3/32 (Calif Assoc Prod or Zephyr U.S.A.)*
175 Cleco Fasteners, 1/8 (Calif Assoc Prod or Zephyr U.S.A.)*
10 Cleco Fasteners, 5/32" (Calif Assoc Prod or Zephyr U.S.A.)*
10 Cleco Fasteners, 3/16 (Calif Assoc Prod or Zephyr U.S.A.)*
Edge Deburring Tool, Hex Swivel type*
Fluting Pliers, Smooth Flute Nylon Jaws*
Fluting Pliers, Deep V Nylon Jaws*
Rivet Cutter*
Air Tool Oil
Drill Stop Set of 4 with Allen Wrench*
Rivet Set DOTS, Easier than Rivet Tape
3/32 Pop Rivet Dimple Die, Springback (U.S.A.)*
1/8 Pop Rivet Dimple Die, Springback (U.S.A.)*
Hand Seamer (Klein Tools U.S.A.)*
3/32 Drive Pin Punch (Klein Tools U.S.A.)*
1/8 Drive Pin Punch (Klein Tools U.S.A.)*
Scotch Brite Hand Pads, 4 each
Rivet Length Gauge*
Rivet Shop Head Gauge, 4-piece*
- --
Dan Brown, KE6MKS, dan(at)familybrown.org
"Since all the world is but a story, it were well for thee to buy the
more enduring story rather than the story that is less enduring."
~ -- The Judgment of St. Colum Cille
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jim-bean(at)att.net |
________________________________________________________________________________
May 26, 2008 - July 06, 2008
RV-Archive.digest.vol-tn