RV-Archive.digest.vol-ts

September 25, 2008 - October 22, 2008



      stick side profile (including any length reduction to clear the panel.don't
      forget the stick grip length).
      
      
      Then cut several (6 for me) small pie sections out along the back portion of
      the stick and form the stick to the desired curve by gentle pressure.   Now
      tack weld the stick in the final shape and then weld up the joints.  If you
      can't weld or don't have the equipment, find a good one at a local EAA
      meeting.
      
      
      Rather than use a "S" shape I used an upside down question mark shape so
      that I had only one curve to deal with.  Don't know if the following ASCII
      drawing works:
      
      
                                   |
      
                                _|
      
                            /
      
                          /
      
                         |
      
                         |
      
      
      Deene Ogden
      
      EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
      
      RV8 QB  N299AD
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Huft" <rv8tor(at)lazy8.net>
Subject: IMC - What If??? Analysis
Date: Sep 25, 2008
The basic ADI (not with built in autopilot option) has a single gyro (solid state rate gyro), inclined like the one in a turn coordinator. This means the gyro itself senses both roll and azimuth changes (not position, changes). It also has pitot and static pressure inputs. For vertical display, it is an IVSI, an instantaneous vertical speed indicator, so it does not have the lag that a basic VSI has. This is a common mechanical instrument, often used in gliders and seaplanes. For bank angle information, it uses the turn rate info from the gyro, and combines that with the speed info from the pitot input to calculate and display bank angle. This is the basic patent that TT brags about. John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:23 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis As I understand it, this means that the pitch info comes from changes in barometric altitude (i.e. VSI), enhanced with solid state pitch rate "gyro" info. No GPS info is used for pitch or roll display. Kevin Horton Bruce Gray wrote: > Hmmm, I could be wrong but.... The TruTrak website says the roll is > instantaneous gyro and the pitch is enhanced VSI. Perhaps we're both right. > > > > Bruce > > <http://www.glasair.org/> www.Glasair.org > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of SteinAir, Inc. > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:22 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis > > > Hi Bruce, > > You know I agree with you historically on some of your points, but I have to > jump in here just a little bit - nothing personal, just want to re-direct a > few facts. Your understanding of the TruTrak ADI is not just a little bit > off....it's just flat wrong. Who told you it uses GPS information for > vertical information? They use GPS to show a track in the little LCD > window...it has nothing to do with the flight display. You do of course > realize that it has solid state gyros inside of it and shows instantaneous > pitch and bank information as well? Naturally you also know that it has a > Pitot and Static connection on the back of it to sense pitot/satic info? Of > course some of the EFIS mfgrs out there use GPS as an aiding function to > offset the accelerometer drift, etc.., but I'm not aware of any other than > the little "instrument page" of the Garmin handhelds that do anything of the > sort. > > Anyway, I don't want to get into a debate on what should be used when and > where nor if the ADI is for you or not...just want to make sure people don't > think it uses GPS to display any flight information. I do agree that there > is a BIG question on lower cost EFISes knowing whether they are ill or not. > The certified stuff has a ton of software in it for that very purpose, and > will paint a big red "X" over any portion of the instrument it thinks > doesn't has perfect information. Most of the really low cost EFISes will > not alert you to anything being wrong, because the EFIS itself doesn't know > it's sick. It's what I try to tell people over and over. There is a MUCH > larger difference between EFISes than just plain cost. There is a lot of > other unseen functionality that comes with the higher priced units other > than their name on the faceplate. Of course every EFIS mfgr will tell you > their stuff is the same as the certified Garmin or what is in the Boeings > while standing in the booth at OSH (I actually heard a rep from a low cost > EFIS mfgr repeatedly tell people their stuff was as good or better than the > Garmin certified stuff)....hopefully people realize that's just not the case > and couldn't be farther from the truth. Does that mean the low cost EFISes > are bad? Heck no! They are a marvel of technology as long as you use them > for what they are. > > FYI...most of the heavy iron is going to solid state peanut backups as > well....but they aren't anything like our low cost EFISes (nor the price)! > > Again, nothing personal and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with premise in > general, just some of the details. The whole "tie breaker" discussion gets > really interesting really fast in some of these configurations. There are a > number of historical crashes of airliners because of the fight between > pilot/copilot and the "tie breaker" of instruments indications. Overall I > could ramble on and on about this stuff, as well as the whole AHRS theory, > but in the end we're all entitled to our own opinions. Like I said, no > necessarily agreeing or disagreeing, just putting out a few facts. > > Cheers, > Stein > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Gray > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:50 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis > > > To play the devils advocate, > > You'll be lucky if, when your EFIS fails, the screen goes dark. More than > likely, part of it will just freeze, or worse yet - start giving you false > information. > > What do you do when all your electro-wizzies fail? It's happened - several > times in big iron aircraft, failure of multiple electrical systems and their > backups leaving a totally dark cockpit. One of the reasons that all EFIS > certified panels have a vacuum ADI or equivalent. > > But let's look at a more likely failure mode, the AHRS starts to put out > false information. Your Tru-Trak ADI (It's not really) only displays quasi > pitch info. It shows a GPS derived VSI as pitch up/down commands. Now, the > big question is - are you willing to bet your life that you addled and > confused brain is going to be able to sort out the conflicting and non > standard pitch information before you go "THUD"? > And as your screaming brain is yelling - which system is right? Needle, > ball, and airspeed tie breaker? > > I know I've spent hundreds of hours scanning the basic 6 pack in IMC and am > well aware of its failure modes. But when screens go dark or scrambled it's > the easiest and fasted for me to revert to and feel comfortable. > > > > > Bruce > > <http://www.glasair.org/> www.Glasair.org > > > -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (Flight Test Phase) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil leak
From: "bluesidedown" <mbick(at)carolina.rr.com>
Date: Sep 25, 2008
Reducing the pressure in the crankcase may help. I see a lot of breather tubes on RVs butt up against the exhaust and I think why?? When all they would have to do is weld a small pipe to the exhaust (at the right angle and depth) run the breather tube to that and the benefits would be cleaner bottom, lower crankcase pressure thus less leaks, less oil consumption and a slight but noticeable increase in power. Prior to doing so myself I was skeptical of some radical claims of doing so but I knew there was a reason for positive crankcase ventilation and what the hec its experimental right!! My RV4 had a brand new 180hp leakcoming and after I ran the breather to the exhausts the leaks ended and I notice a slight gain in power. So I thought I would do the same with my Acrosport 1 with its tube ran all the way to the back of the plane and I was sure the benefits would be greater and they were. I had over 50 RPM increase at full throttle during a static run up. And no leaks!! Matter of fact the plane just went coast to coast and did not need any oil. My latest plane with Angle valve 360 used to spew oil all over the bottom and the guy selling it to me told me that when I bought it and it did. For on the trip home from Texas the bottom was very oily and needed a quart in just 4 hours. So I did the same thing with it and since then my front seal has not leaked anything and my accessory case is far cleaner as is the bottom. I still get some oil but about a tenth of what I used to and in 25 hours I only used one quart. I have a constant speed prop on this one and so it is a little harder to measure but it feels a little stronger. Anyway it seems the benefits are worth looking into. Now I have not heard of or if there has been any problems and as with anything do some research noting what others experienced and the best way to set it up. I am just telling you about my experience. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6087#206087 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: on wheel pants
Date: Sep 25, 2008
I got everything aligned then filled the gaps and around the brackets with flox. When cured take everything apart and you can drill from the inside through holes already in the brackets through the wheelpant. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2008
From: Christopher Stone <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Oil leak
Have you pictures of the vent to exhaust configuration that you can share. Your description refers to the 'right angle and depth", we all would like to know the details. I for one am interested in keeping the bottom side clean and am installing an angle valve IO-360 in my RV-8. Thanks! Chris Stone RV-8 Newberg, OR -----Original Message----- >From: bluesidedown <mbick(at)carolina.rr.com> >Sent: Sep 25, 2008 8:39 AM >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Re: Oil leak > > >Reducing the pressure in the crankcase may help. I see a lot of breather tubes on RVs butt up against the exhaust and I think why?? When all they would have to do is weld a small pipe to the exhaust (at the right angle and depth) run the breather tube to that and the benefits would be cleaner bottom, lower crankcase pressure thus less leaks, less oil consumption and a slight but noticeable increase in power. Prior to doing so myself I was skeptical of some radical claims of doing so but I knew there was a reason for positive crankcase ventilation and what the hec its experimental right!! My RV4 had a brand new 180hp leakcoming and after I ran the breather to the exhausts the leaks ended and I notice a slight gain in power. So I thought I would do the same with my Acrosport 1 with its tube ran all the way to the back of the plane and I was sure the benefits would be greater and they were. I had over 50 RPM increase at full throttle during a static run up. And no leaks!! Mat ! > ter of fact the plane just went coast to coast and did not need any oil. My latest plane with Angle valve 360 used to spew oil all over the bottom and the guy selling it to me told me that when I bought it and it did. For on the trip home from Texas the bottom was very oily and needed a quart in just 4 hours. So I did the same thing with it and since then my front seal has not leaked anything and my accessory case is far cleaner as is the bottom. I still get some oil but about a tenth of what I used to and in 25 hours I only used one quart. I have a constant speed prop on this one and so it is a little harder to measure but it feels a little stronger. Anyway it seems the benefits are worth looking into. Now I have not heard of or if there has been any problems and as with anything do some research noting what others experienced and the best way to set it up. I am just telling you about my experience. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6087#206087 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: IMC - What If??? Analysis
Date: Sep 25, 2008
So, that means that there are some situations where the aircraft could be at reduced power, level in pitch, in a decent, and the instrument would show nose down causing the pilot to pitch up and stall the aircraft. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Huft Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:54 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis The basic ADI (not with built in autopilot option) has a single gyro (solid state rate gyro), inclined like the one in a turn coordinator. This means the gyro itself senses both roll and azimuth changes (not position, changes). It also has pitot and static pressure inputs. For vertical display, it is an IVSI, an instantaneous vertical speed indicator, so it does not have the lag that a basic VSI has. This is a common mechanical instrument, often used in gliders and seaplanes. For bank angle information, it uses the turn rate info from the gyro, and combines that with the speed info from the pitot input to calculate and display bank angle. This is the basic patent that TT brags about. John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:23 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis As I understand it, this means that the pitch info comes from changes in barometric altitude (i.e. VSI), enhanced with solid state pitch rate "gyro" info. No GPS info is used for pitch or roll display. Kevin Horton Bruce Gray wrote: > Hmmm, I could be wrong but.... The TruTrak website says the roll is > instantaneous gyro and the pitch is enhanced VSI. Perhaps we're both right. > > > > Bruce > > <http://www.glasair.org/> www.Glasair.org > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of SteinAir, > Inc. > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:22 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis > > > Hi Bruce, > > You know I agree with you historically on some of your points, but I > have to > jump in here just a little bit - nothing personal, just want to > re-direct a > few facts. Your understanding of the TruTrak ADI is not just a little > bit off....it's just flat wrong. Who told you it uses GPS information > for vertical information? They use GPS to show a track in the little > LCD window...it has nothing to do with the flight display. You do of > course realize that it has solid state gyros inside of it and shows > instantaneous pitch and bank information as well? Naturally you also > know that it has a Pitot and Static connection on the back of it to > sense pitot/satic info? Of > course some of the EFIS mfgrs out there use GPS as an aiding function > to offset the accelerometer drift, etc.., but I'm not aware of any > other than the little "instrument page" of the Garmin handhelds that > do anything of the > sort. > > Anyway, I don't want to get into a debate on what should be used when > and where nor if the ADI is for you or not...just want to make sure > people don't > think it uses GPS to display any flight information. I do agree that there > is a BIG question on lower cost EFISes knowing whether they are ill or not. > The certified stuff has a ton of software in it for that very purpose, > and will paint a big red "X" over any portion of the instrument it > thinks doesn't has perfect information. Most of the really low cost > EFISes will not alert you to anything being wrong, because the EFIS > itself doesn't know > it's sick. It's what I try to tell people over and over. There is a > MUCH larger difference between EFISes than just plain cost. There is > a lot of other unseen functionality that comes with the higher priced > units other than their name on the faceplate. Of course every EFIS > mfgr will tell you their stuff is the same as the certified Garmin or > what is in the Boeings while standing in the booth at OSH (I actually > heard a rep from a low cost EFIS mfgr repeatedly tell people their > stuff was as good or better than the > Garmin certified stuff)....hopefully people realize that's just not > the case > and couldn't be farther from the truth. Does that mean the low cost EFISes > are bad? Heck no! They are a marvel of technology as long as you use them > for what they are. > > FYI...most of the heavy iron is going to solid state peanut backups as > well....but they aren't anything like our low cost EFISes (nor the > price)! > > Again, nothing personal and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with > premise in > general, just some of the details. The whole "tie breaker" discussion gets > really interesting really fast in some of these configurations. There > are a > number of historical crashes of airliners because of the fight between > pilot/copilot and the "tie breaker" of instruments indications. > Overall I could ramble on and on about this stuff, as well as the > whole AHRS theory, but in the end we're all entitled to our own > opinions. Like I said, no necessarily agreeing or disagreeing, just > putting out a few facts. > > Cheers, > Stein > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Gray > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:50 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis > > > To play the devils advocate, > > You'll be lucky if, when your EFIS fails, the screen goes dark. More > than likely, part of it will just freeze, or worse yet - start giving > you false information. > > What do you do when all your electro-wizzies fail? It's happened - > several times in big iron aircraft, failure of multiple electrical > systems and their > backups leaving a totally dark cockpit. One of the reasons that all > EFIS certified panels have a vacuum ADI or equivalent. > > But let's look at a more likely failure mode, the AHRS starts to put > out false information. Your Tru-Trak ADI (It's not really) only > displays quasi pitch info. It shows a GPS derived VSI as pitch up/down > commands. Now, the big question is - are you willing to bet your life > that you addled and confused brain is going to be able to sort out the > conflicting and non standard pitch information before you go "THUD"? > And as your screaming brain is yelling - which system is right? > Needle, ball, and airspeed tie breaker? > > I know I've spent hundreds of hours scanning the basic 6 pack in IMC > and am > well aware of its failure modes. But when screens go dark or scrambled it's > the easiest and fasted for me to revert to and feel comfortable. > > > > > Bruce > > <http://www.glasair.org/> www.Glasair.org > > > -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (Flight Test Phase) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Huft" <rv8tor(at)lazy8.net>
Subject: IMC - What If??? Analysis
Date: Sep 25, 2008
Bruce, you and I have been on these lists for at least 10 years now. As you well know, this subject has been beaten into the ground. Yes, if you are IFR, and you fixate on one instrument, there are many different ways you can get in trouble. If you are going to fixate on a TT ADI, to the exclusion of the airspeed indicator, you can get yourself into the situation you describe. I do have a TT ADI in my RV8. As an old CFII, I have been trained to fly partial panel. I would far rather do it with an ADI and airspeed, than the old needle, ball, and airspeed. John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 12:10 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis So, that means that there are some situations where the aircraft could be at reduced power, level in pitch, in a decent, and the instrument would show nose down causing the pilot to pitch up and stall the aircraft. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Huft Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:54 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis The basic ADI (not with built in autopilot option) has a single gyro (solid state rate gyro), inclined like the one in a turn coordinator. This means the gyro itself senses both roll and azimuth changes (not position, changes). It also has pitot and static pressure inputs. For vertical display, it is an IVSI, an instantaneous vertical speed indicator, so it does not have the lag that a basic VSI has. This is a common mechanical instrument, often used in gliders and seaplanes. For bank angle information, it uses the turn rate info from the gyro, and combines that with the speed info from the pitot input to calculate and display bank angle. This is the basic patent that TT brags about. John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:23 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis As I understand it, this means that the pitch info comes from changes in barometric altitude (i.e. VSI), enhanced with solid state pitch rate "gyro" info. No GPS info is used for pitch or roll display. Kevin Horton Bruce Gray wrote: > Hmmm, I could be wrong but.... The TruTrak website says the roll is > instantaneous gyro and the pitch is enhanced VSI. Perhaps we're both right. > > > > Bruce > > <http://www.glasair.org/> www.Glasair.org > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of SteinAir, > Inc. > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:22 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis > > > Hi Bruce, > > You know I agree with you historically on some of your points, but I > have to > jump in here just a little bit - nothing personal, just want to > re-direct a > few facts. Your understanding of the TruTrak ADI is not just a little > bit off....it's just flat wrong. Who told you it uses GPS information > for vertical information? They use GPS to show a track in the little > LCD window...it has nothing to do with the flight display. You do of > course realize that it has solid state gyros inside of it and shows > instantaneous pitch and bank information as well? Naturally you also > know that it has a Pitot and Static connection on the back of it to > sense pitot/satic info? Of > course some of the EFIS mfgrs out there use GPS as an aiding function > to offset the accelerometer drift, etc.., but I'm not aware of any > other than the little "instrument page" of the Garmin handhelds that > do anything of the > sort. > > Anyway, I don't want to get into a debate on what should be used when > and where nor if the ADI is for you or not...just want to make sure > people don't > think it uses GPS to display any flight information. I do agree that there > is a BIG question on lower cost EFISes knowing whether they are ill or not. > The certified stuff has a ton of software in it for that very purpose, > and will paint a big red "X" over any portion of the instrument it > thinks doesn't has perfect information. Most of the really low cost > EFISes will not alert you to anything being wrong, because the EFIS > itself doesn't know > it's sick. It's what I try to tell people over and over. There is a > MUCH larger difference between EFISes than just plain cost. There is > a lot of other unseen functionality that comes with the higher priced > units other than their name on the faceplate. Of course every EFIS > mfgr will tell you their stuff is the same as the certified Garmin or > what is in the Boeings while standing in the booth at OSH (I actually > heard a rep from a low cost EFIS mfgr repeatedly tell people their > stuff was as good or better than the > Garmin certified stuff)....hopefully people realize that's just not > the case > and couldn't be farther from the truth. Does that mean the low cost EFISes > are bad? Heck no! They are a marvel of technology as long as you use them > for what they are. > > FYI...most of the heavy iron is going to solid state peanut backups as > well....but they aren't anything like our low cost EFISes (nor the > price)! > > Again, nothing personal and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with > premise in > general, just some of the details. The whole "tie breaker" discussion gets > really interesting really fast in some of these configurations. There > are a > number of historical crashes of airliners because of the fight between > pilot/copilot and the "tie breaker" of instruments indications. > Overall I could ramble on and on about this stuff, as well as the > whole AHRS theory, but in the end we're all entitled to our own > opinions. Like I said, no necessarily agreeing or disagreeing, just > putting out a few facts. > > Cheers, > Stein > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Gray > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:50 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis > > > To play the devils advocate, > > You'll be lucky if, when your EFIS fails, the screen goes dark. More > than likely, part of it will just freeze, or worse yet - start giving > you false information. > > What do you do when all your electro-wizzies fail? It's happened - > several times in big iron aircraft, failure of multiple electrical > systems and their > backups leaving a totally dark cockpit. One of the reasons that all > EFIS certified panels have a vacuum ADI or equivalent. > > But let's look at a more likely failure mode, the AHRS starts to put > out false information. Your Tru-Trak ADI (It's not really) only > displays quasi pitch info. It shows a GPS derived VSI as pitch up/down > commands. Now, the big question is - are you willing to bet your life > that you addled and confused brain is going to be able to sort out the > conflicting and non standard pitch information before you go "THUD"? > And as your screaming brain is yelling - which system is right? > Needle, ball, and airspeed tie breaker? > > I know I've spent hundreds of hours scanning the basic 6 pack in IMC > and am > well aware of its failure modes. But when screens go dark or scrambled it's > the easiest and fasted for me to revert to and feel comfortable. > > > > > Bruce > > <http://www.glasair.org/> www.Glasair.org > > > -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (Flight Test Phase) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: IMC - What If??? Analysis
Date: Sep 25, 2008
OK, I'll stop. It's just that if it looks like an attitude gyro, unfamilure pilots are going to try to fly it like one. I'm sure that if TruTrak tried to certify that instrument, the FAA would require a "No Pitch Information" placard. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Huft Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:34 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis Bruce, you and I have been on these lists for at least 10 years now. As you well know, this subject has been beaten into the ground. Yes, if you are IFR, and you fixate on one instrument, there are many different ways you can get in trouble. If you are going to fixate on a TT ADI, to the exclusion of the airspeed indicator, you can get yourself into the situation you describe. I do have a TT ADI in my RV8. As an old CFII, I have been trained to fly partial panel. I would far rather do it with an ADI and airspeed, than the old needle, ball, and airspeed. John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 12:10 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis So, that means that there are some situations where the aircraft could be at reduced power, level in pitch, in a decent, and the instrument would show nose down causing the pilot to pitch up and stall the aircraft. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Huft Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:54 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis The basic ADI (not with built in autopilot option) has a single gyro (solid state rate gyro), inclined like the one in a turn coordinator. This means the gyro itself senses both roll and azimuth changes (not position, changes). It also has pitot and static pressure inputs. For vertical display, it is an IVSI, an instantaneous vertical speed indicator, so it does not have the lag that a basic VSI has. This is a common mechanical instrument, often used in gliders and seaplanes. For bank angle information, it uses the turn rate info from the gyro, and combines that with the speed info from the pitot input to calculate and display bank angle. This is the basic patent that TT brags about. John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:23 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis As I understand it, this means that the pitch info comes from changes in barometric altitude (i.e. VSI), enhanced with solid state pitch rate "gyro" info. No GPS info is used for pitch or roll display. Kevin Horton Bruce Gray wrote: > Hmmm, I could be wrong but.... The TruTrak website says the roll is > instantaneous gyro and the pitch is enhanced VSI. Perhaps we're both right. > > > > Bruce > > <http://www.glasair.org/> www.Glasair.org > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of SteinAir, > Inc. > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:22 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis > > > Hi Bruce, > > You know I agree with you historically on some of your points, but I > have to > jump in here just a little bit - nothing personal, just want to > re-direct a > few facts. Your understanding of the TruTrak ADI is not just a little > bit off....it's just flat wrong. Who told you it uses GPS information > for vertical information? They use GPS to show a track in the little > LCD window...it has nothing to do with the flight display. You do of > course realize that it has solid state gyros inside of it and shows > instantaneous pitch and bank information as well? Naturally you also > know that it has a Pitot and Static connection on the back of it to > sense pitot/satic info? Of > course some of the EFIS mfgrs out there use GPS as an aiding function > to offset the accelerometer drift, etc.., but I'm not aware of any > other than the little "instrument page" of the Garmin handhelds that > do anything of the > sort. > > Anyway, I don't want to get into a debate on what should be used when > and where nor if the ADI is for you or not...just want to make sure > people don't > think it uses GPS to display any flight information. I do agree that there > is a BIG question on lower cost EFISes knowing whether they are ill or not. > The certified stuff has a ton of software in it for that very purpose, > and will paint a big red "X" over any portion of the instrument it > thinks doesn't has perfect information. Most of the really low cost > EFISes will not alert you to anything being wrong, because the EFIS > itself doesn't know > it's sick. It's what I try to tell people over and over. There is a > MUCH larger difference between EFISes than just plain cost. There is > a lot of other unseen functionality that comes with the higher priced > units other than their name on the faceplate. Of course every EFIS > mfgr will tell you their stuff is the same as the certified Garmin or > what is in the Boeings while standing in the booth at OSH (I actually > heard a rep from a low cost EFIS mfgr repeatedly tell people their > stuff was as good or better than the > Garmin certified stuff)....hopefully people realize that's just not > the case > and couldn't be farther from the truth. Does that mean the low cost EFISes > are bad? Heck no! They are a marvel of technology as long as you use them > for what they are. > > FYI...most of the heavy iron is going to solid state peanut backups as > well....but they aren't anything like our low cost EFISes (nor the > price)! > > Again, nothing personal and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with > premise in > general, just some of the details. The whole "tie breaker" discussion gets > really interesting really fast in some of these configurations. There > are a > number of historical crashes of airliners because of the fight between > pilot/copilot and the "tie breaker" of instruments indications. > Overall I could ramble on and on about this stuff, as well as the > whole AHRS theory, but in the end we're all entitled to our own > opinions. Like I said, no necessarily agreeing or disagreeing, just > putting out a few facts. > > Cheers, > Stein > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Gray > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:50 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis > > > To play the devils advocate, > > You'll be lucky if, when your EFIS fails, the screen goes dark. More > than likely, part of it will just freeze, or worse yet - start giving > you false information. > > What do you do when all your electro-wizzies fail? It's happened - > several times in big iron aircraft, failure of multiple electrical > systems and their > backups leaving a totally dark cockpit. One of the reasons that all > EFIS certified panels have a vacuum ADI or equivalent. > > But let's look at a more likely failure mode, the AHRS starts to put > out false information. Your Tru-Trak ADI (It's not really) only > displays quasi pitch info. It shows a GPS derived VSI as pitch up/down > commands. Now, the big question is - are you willing to bet your life > that you addled and confused brain is going to be able to sort out the > conflicting and non standard pitch information before you go "THUD"? > And as your screaming brain is yelling - which system is right? > Needle, ball, and airspeed tie breaker? > > I know I've spent hundreds of hours scanning the basic 6 pack in IMC > and am > well aware of its failure modes. But when screens go dark or scrambled it's > the easiest and fasted for me to revert to and feel comfortable. > > > > > Bruce > > <http://www.glasair.org/> www.Glasair.org > > > -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (Flight Test Phase) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Huft" <rv8tor(at)lazy8.net>
Subject: IMC - What If??? Analysis
Date: Sep 25, 2008
That could be...it does work in a different way, and require a little bit of re-education. It is a little like the change from the turn and bank indicator to the turn coordinator, though more so, maybe. I found it interesting to read that the attitude indicator in an SR-71 also shows vertical speed rather than pitch...I guess a one-degree pitch up at SR-71 speed would be extreme for altitude correction...same problem I have at RV8 speeds :o) John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 12:49 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis OK, I'll stop. It's just that if it looks like an attitude gyro, unfamilure pilots are going to try to fly it like one. I'm sure that if TruTrak tried to certify that instrument, the FAA would require a "No Pitch Information" placard. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Huft Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:34 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis Bruce, you and I have been on these lists for at least 10 years now. As you well know, this subject has been beaten into the ground. Yes, if you are IFR, and you fixate on one instrument, there are many different ways you can get in trouble. If you are going to fixate on a TT ADI, to the exclusion of the airspeed indicator, you can get yourself into the situation you describe. I do have a TT ADI in my RV8. As an old CFII, I have been trained to fly partial panel. I would far rather do it with an ADI and airspeed, than the old needle, ball, and airspeed. John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 12:10 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis So, that means that there are some situations where the aircraft could be at reduced power, level in pitch, in a decent, and the instrument would show nose down causing the pilot to pitch up and stall the aircraft. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Huft Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:54 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis The basic ADI (not with built in autopilot option) has a single gyro (solid state rate gyro), inclined like the one in a turn coordinator. This means the gyro itself senses both roll and azimuth changes (not position, changes). It also has pitot and static pressure inputs. For vertical display, it is an IVSI, an instantaneous vertical speed indicator, so it does not have the lag that a basic VSI has. This is a common mechanical instrument, often used in gliders and seaplanes. For bank angle information, it uses the turn rate info from the gyro, and combines that with the speed info from the pitot input to calculate and display bank angle. This is the basic patent that TT brags about. John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:23 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis As I understand it, this means that the pitch info comes from changes in barometric altitude (i.e. VSI), enhanced with solid state pitch rate "gyro" info. No GPS info is used for pitch or roll display. Kevin Horton Bruce Gray wrote: > Hmmm, I could be wrong but.... The TruTrak website says the roll is > instantaneous gyro and the pitch is enhanced VSI. Perhaps we're both right. > > > > Bruce > > <http://www.glasair.org/> www.Glasair.org > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of SteinAir, > Inc. > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:22 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis > > > Hi Bruce, > > You know I agree with you historically on some of your points, but I > have to > jump in here just a little bit - nothing personal, just want to > re-direct a > few facts. Your understanding of the TruTrak ADI is not just a little > bit off....it's just flat wrong. Who told you it uses GPS information > for vertical information? They use GPS to show a track in the little > LCD window...it has nothing to do with the flight display. You do of > course realize that it has solid state gyros inside of it and shows > instantaneous pitch and bank information as well? Naturally you also > know that it has a Pitot and Static connection on the back of it to > sense pitot/satic info? Of > course some of the EFIS mfgrs out there use GPS as an aiding function > to offset the accelerometer drift, etc.., but I'm not aware of any > other than the little "instrument page" of the Garmin handhelds that > do anything of the > sort. > > Anyway, I don't want to get into a debate on what should be used when > and where nor if the ADI is for you or not...just want to make sure > people don't > think it uses GPS to display any flight information. I do agree that there > is a BIG question on lower cost EFISes knowing whether they are ill or not. > The certified stuff has a ton of software in it for that very purpose, > and will paint a big red "X" over any portion of the instrument it > thinks doesn't has perfect information. Most of the really low cost > EFISes will not alert you to anything being wrong, because the EFIS > itself doesn't know > it's sick. It's what I try to tell people over and over. There is a > MUCH larger difference between EFISes than just plain cost. There is > a lot of other unseen functionality that comes with the higher priced > units other than their name on the faceplate. Of course every EFIS > mfgr will tell you their stuff is the same as the certified Garmin or > what is in the Boeings while standing in the booth at OSH (I actually > heard a rep from a low cost EFIS mfgr repeatedly tell people their > stuff was as good or better than the > Garmin certified stuff)....hopefully people realize that's just not > the case > and couldn't be farther from the truth. Does that mean the low cost EFISes > are bad? Heck no! They are a marvel of technology as long as you use them > for what they are. > > FYI...most of the heavy iron is going to solid state peanut backups as > well....but they aren't anything like our low cost EFISes (nor the > price)! > > Again, nothing personal and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with > premise in > general, just some of the details. The whole "tie breaker" discussion gets > really interesting really fast in some of these configurations. There > are a > number of historical crashes of airliners because of the fight between > pilot/copilot and the "tie breaker" of instruments indications. > Overall I could ramble on and on about this stuff, as well as the > whole AHRS theory, but in the end we're all entitled to our own > opinions. Like I said, no necessarily agreeing or disagreeing, just > putting out a few facts. > > Cheers, > Stein > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Gray > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:50 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis > > > To play the devils advocate, > > You'll be lucky if, when your EFIS fails, the screen goes dark. More > than likely, part of it will just freeze, or worse yet - start giving > you false information. > > What do you do when all your electro-wizzies fail? It's happened - > several times in big iron aircraft, failure of multiple electrical > systems and their > backups leaving a totally dark cockpit. One of the reasons that all > EFIS certified panels have a vacuum ADI or equivalent. > > But let's look at a more likely failure mode, the AHRS starts to put > out false information. Your Tru-Trak ADI (It's not really) only > displays quasi pitch info. It shows a GPS derived VSI as pitch up/down > commands. Now, the big question is - are you willing to bet your life > that you addled and confused brain is going to be able to sort out the > conflicting and non standard pitch information before you go "THUD"? > And as your screaming brain is yelling - which system is right? > Needle, ball, and airspeed tie breaker? > > I know I've spent hundreds of hours scanning the basic 6 pack in IMC > and am > well aware of its failure modes. But when screens go dark or scrambled it's > the easiest and fasted for me to revert to and feel comfortable. > > > > > Bruce > > <http://www.glasair.org/> www.Glasair.org > > > -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (Flight Test Phase) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RobHickman(at)AOL.COM
Date: Sep 25, 2008
Subject: Re: IMC - What If??? Analysis
The Cirrus SR-22 has a mechanical Airspeed indicator, Altimeter and an ELECTRIC artificial horizon as the backup instruments. The Cirrus also has two alternators and a dual buss electrical system. The Cirrus does not have an y vacuum backup instruments, however it does have a parachute as the ultimate backup and it has been used after the screens went black. In my RV-10 I have two Advanced deck EFIS units, each with their own AHRS and air data, Digiflight II VSGV Autopilot, Garmin 496 (with GPS based instrument page) and a wet compass. Unlike the Garmin G900 system, each AFS screen has an internal battery that will power the EFIS independently for over an hour in the event of an electrical failure in the aircraft. The AFS EFIS setup in my RV-10 has dua l AHRS, airspeed and altimeters for cross checking between screens as a measure of added safety. The G900 is a single AHRS and airdata system. Like the Garmin G900, the AFS AHRS and its companion Remote Magnetometer ar e built in an FAA MIDO approved manufacturing facility, where automated state-of-the-art dual-axis ovenized rate tables ($250,000 each), thermal ch ambers and Helmholtz cages perform extensive calibration, test and 100% verificati on of performance and reliability prior to being incorporated into the EFIS. The AHRS-Magnetometer has three separate microprocessors that calculate and verify proper operation with built-in test functions. If the AHRS built in test routine detects an error, the EFIS will display a large red X on the screen and can switch to another AHRS. If the EFIS=99s CPU detects a cross compare error between screens a warning is generated and the pilot is able to select the AHRS to use. AFS has extensive experience writing certified software to DO-178. AFS is responsible for the software development for the new Honeywell KFD-840 EFIS . In my RV-10 I have the following failure modes: 1. Aircraft Electrical System Failure Use Internal EFIS batteries and Garmin 496 connected to EFIS for navigation . Select closest airport, should have over an hour of backup time. 2. Single AHRS detected failure EFIS screens will switch to second AHRS 3. EFIS cross compare error Use Autopilot, GPS, and Compass to select AHRS to use. 4. EFIS screen failure Use second EFIS and Autopilot. 5. Dual EFIS screen failure Use Autopilot, 496 GPS, and Compass for navigation. I have actually practiced this under the hood. Just last week my instructor made me fly an approach under the hood using only the 496. The lack of proper training, little or no recurrent training and poor judgment are the real safety problems not the EFIS. Statistically the comp onent that is most likely to fail is between the pilot=99s ears. Anyone fl ying IFR needs to be trained and proficient at recognizing a failure and being able to fly the aircraft without it. Anyone that truly believes that they are safer flying a standard =9C6 pack=9D with a single vacuum pump IFR rather than my RV-10 panel setup needs to che ck the ventilation while being exposed to fiberglass fumes. Rob Hickman Advanced Flight Systems **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips a nd calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: IMC - What If??? Analysis
Date: Sep 25, 2008
I'm really not high on fiberglass fumes. It's the vynalester resin fumes that will make you feel good though.... What's gonna happen when you're up there and a lighting bolt strikes your RV and fries all your electrical systems? Guys... I'm not against EFIS systems or you desire to fly behind them. I just want everyone to realize what risks they are taking. Although we are getting down to unlikely situations here. Bruce www.Glasair.org <http://www.glasair.org/> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RobHickman(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 5:49 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis The Cirrus SR-22 has a mechanical Airspeed indicator, Altimeter and an ELECTRIC artificial horizon as the backup instruments. The Cirrus also has two alternators and a dual buss electrical system. The Cirrus does not have any vacuum backup instruments, however it does have a parachute as the ultimate backup and it has been used after the screens went black. In my RV-10 I have two Advanced deck EFIS units, each with their own AHRS and air data, Digiflight II VSGV Autopilot, Garmin 496 (with GPS based instrument page) and a wet compass. Unlike the Garmin G900 system, each AFS screen has an internal battery that will power the EFIS independently for over an hour in the event of an electrical failure in the aircraft. The AFS EFIS setup in my RV-10 has dual AHRS, airspeed and altimeters for cross checking between screens as a measure of added safety. The G900 is a single AHRS and airdata system. Like the Garmin G900, the AFS AHRS and its companion Remote Magnetometer are built in an FAA MIDO approved manufacturing facility, where automated state-of-the-art dual-axis ovenized rate tables ($250,000 each), thermal chambers and Helmholtz cages perform extensive calibration, test and 100% verification of performance and reliability prior to being incorporated into the EFIS. The AHRS-Magnetometer has three separate microprocessors that calculate and verify proper operation with built-in test functions. If the AHRS built in test routine detects an error, the EFIS will display a large red X on the screen and can switch to another AHRS. If the EFIS's CPU detects a cross compare error between screens a warning is generated and the pilot is able to select the AHRS to use. AFS has extensive experience writing certified software to DO-178. AFS is responsible for the software development for the new Honeywell KFD-840 EFIS. In my RV-10 I have the following failure modes: 1. Aircraft Electrical System Failure Use Internal EFIS batteries and Garmin 496 connected to EFIS for navigation. Select closest airport, should have over an hour of backup time. 2. Single AHRS detected failure EFIS screens will switch to second AHRS 3. EFIS cross compare error Use Autopilot, GPS, and Compass to select AHRS to use. 4. EFIS screen failure Use second EFIS and Autopilot. 5. Dual EFIS screen failure Use Autopilot, 496 GPS, and Compass for navigation. I have actually practiced this under the hood. Just last week my instructor made me fly an approach under the hood using only the 496. The lack of proper training, little or no recurrent training and poor judgment are the real safety problems not the EFIS. Statistically the component that is most likely to fail is between the pilot's ears. Anyone flying IFR needs to be trained and proficient at recognizing a failure and being able to fly the aircraft without it. Anyone that truly believes that they are safer flying a standard "6 pack" with a single vacuum pump IFR rather than my RV-10 panel setup needs to check the ventilation while being exposed to fiberglass fumes. Rob Hickman Advanced Flight Systems _____ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life f9382257x1200540686/aol?redir=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntus wall686 /aol?redir=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001" target="_blank">Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RobHickman(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 25, 2008
Subject: Re: IMC - What If??? Analysis
In a message dated 9/25/2008 3:20:39 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Bruce(at)glasair.org writes: What's gonna happen when you're up there and a lighting bolt strikes your RV and fries all your electrical systems? Without ground straps on your control surfaces and static wicks your electronics could be the least of your problems. Actually we spent a lot of time with the help of Crossbow designing in lightning protection on the electrical connections that wire to the EFIS. Crossbow has extensive experience with passing the lightning protection requirements for certification. We have not actually done lightning verification testing of our EFIS or the RV-10. >From _http://www.lightningtech.com/d~ta/faq1.html_ (http://www.lightningtech.com/d~ta/faq1.html) The last confirmed civilian plane crash that was directly attributed to lightning in the U.S. was in 1967, when lightning caused a catastrophic fuel tank explosion. Most aircraft skins are made primarily of aluminum, which is a very good conductor of electricity. By making sure that there are no gaps in this conductive path, the engineer can assure that most of the lightning current will remain on the exterior skin of the aircraft. Some modern aircraft are made of advanced composite materials, which by themselves are significantly less conductive than aluminum. In this case, the composites should be made with an embedded layer of conductive fibers or screens designed to carry lightning currents. Looks to me like Bruce could have more problems than we do with this one, even without an EFIS :) Rob Hickman Advanced Flight Systems **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2008
From: scott bilinski <rv8a2001(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: IMC - What If??? Analysis
Now to stir the pot..............=0A=0AYou can protect electrical systems w ith TVS diodes. =0A=0Ahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transient_voltage_suppre ssion_diode=0A=0AAnd yes I have read that they can be used for lightening s trikes and are on communication equipment.=0A=0A Scott =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-- --- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Bruce Gray <Bruce(at)glasair.org>=0ATo: rv-l ist(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:15:46 PM=0ASubject : RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis=0A=0AMessage =0AI'm really not hig h on fiberglass fumes. =0AIt's the vynalester resin fumes that will make yo u feel good =0Athough....=0A =0AWhat's gonna happen when you're up there an d =0Aa lighting bolt strikes your RV and fries all your electrical =0Asyste ms?=0A =0AGuys... I'm not against EFIS systems or you =0Adesire to fly behi nd them. I just want everyone to realize what risks they are =0Ataking.=0A =0AAlthough we are getting down to unlikely =0Asituations here.=0A =0A =0AB ruce=0Awww.Glasair.org=0A =0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-rv-li st-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Beha lf Of RobHickman(at)aol.com=0ASent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 5:49 PM=0ATo : rv-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Analysis =0A=0AThe Cirrus SR-22 has a mechanical Airspeed indicator, Altimeter and an ELECTRIC artificial horizon as the backup instruments. The Cirrus also has two alternators and a dual buss electrical system. The Cirrus does n ot have any vacuum backup instruments, however it does have a parachute as the ultimate backup and it has been used after the screens went black. =0A =0AIn my RV-10 I have two Advanced deck EFIS units, each with their ow n AHRS and air data, Digiflight II VSGV Autopilot, Garmin 496 (with GPS ba sed instrument page) and a wet compass. =0AUnlike the Garmin G900 system, each AFS screen has an internal battery that will power the EFIS independe ntly for over an hour in the event of an electrical failure in the aircraf t. The AFS EFIS setup in my RV-10 has dual AHRS, airspeed and altimeters for cross checking between screens as a measure of added safety. The G900 is a single AHRS and airdata system.=0ALike the Garmin G900, the AFS AHRS and its companion Remote Magnetometer are built in an FAA MIDO approved ma nufacturing facility, where automated state-of-the-art dual-axis ovenized rate tables ($250,000 each), thermal chambers and Helmholtz cages perform extensive calibration, test and 100% verification of performance and relia bility prior to being incorporated into the EFIS. =0AThe AHRS-Magnetometer has three separate microprocessors that calculate and verify proper operat ion with built-in test functions. If the AHRS built in test routine detec ts an error, the EFIS will display a large red X on the screen and can swi tch to another AHRS. If the EFIS=92s CPU detects a cross compare error between screens a warning is generated and the pilot is able to select the AHRS to use.=0AAFS has extensive experience writing certified software to DO-178. AFS is responsible for the software development for the new Honey well KFD-840 EFIS.=0AIn my RV-10 I have the following failure modes:=0A1. Aircraft Electrical System Failure=0AUse Internal EFIS batteries and G armin 496 connected to EFIS for navigation. Select closest airport, shou ld have over an hour of backup =0Atime.=0A =0A2. Single AHRS detected f ailure=0AEFIS screens will switch to second AHRS =0A3. EFIS cro ss compare error=0AUse Autopilot, GPS, and Compass to select AHRS to use. =0A =0A4. EFIS screen failure=0AUse second EFIS and Autopilot.=0A =0A5 . Dual EFIS screen failure=0AUse Autopilot, 496 GPS, and Compass for n avigation. I have actually practiced this under the hood. Just last week my instructor made me fly an approach under the hood using only the 496. =0AThe lack of proper training, little or no recurrent training and poor j udgment are the real safety problems not the EFIS. Statistically the comp onent that is most likely to fail is between the pilot=92s ears. Anyone f lying IFR needs to be trained and proficient at recognizing a failure and being able to fly the aircraft without it. =0AAnyone that truly believes that they are safer flying a standard =936 pack=94 with a single vacuum p ump IFR rather than my RV-10 panel setup needs to check the ventilation whi le being exposed to fiberglass fumes.=0ARob Hickman=0AAdvanced Flight Sy stems =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A Looking for simpl e solutions to your real-life f9382257x1200540686/aol?redir=http://www.w alletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall686/aol?redir=http://www.walletpop.com/? NCID=emlcntuswall00000001" target="_blank">Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators.=0A=0A=0Ahref="http:/ /www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV -List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ======0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2008
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Question on Wood props
I purchased a new wood prop from Ed Sterba for my 180 hp RV-6A. I also purchased the 2 inch machined aluminum spacer, crush plate and prop bolts from Vans to complete the installation. When I received the prop I discovered that the bolt holes in the wood needed to be filed out quite a bit in order for some of the bolts to be able to line up with the holes in the spacer and go through the spacer into the tapped flange on the crankshaft. With the prop off of the engine these bolts holes now seem quite sloppy. The enlarged portions of the bolt holes on the back of the prop seem to fit very well over the drive pins with virtually no slop when the prop is on the spacer. I've been told that the torque from a 180 hp engine into a wood prop really puts a lot of back and forth stresses on it. Should I be concerned about the enlarged bolt holes (when the drive pins fit tightly) or do I just need to make sure the prop is properly torqued and check it often? Thanks. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Finally received my airworthiness certificate, woo hoo! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2008
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Question on jam nuts
I finished rigging my flaps a few weeks ago but discovered that the right flap pushrod tube rides very close to the side skin when the flaps are retracted (manual flaps). So close in fact that the sides of a jam nut cause some interference such that the heim bearing at the top of assembly (the flap arms connected to the handle) cannot go in to the u-shaped holder at the end of the flap arm. If I try to push the bearing over to go into the flap arm the jam nut touches the side skin and does not allow the top bearing to move over any further (if I open up the side skin hole any higher to clear the nut you'll see it on the outside of the airplane, ugly). This is easily remedied by removing the jam nut and, since the pushrod tube moves away from the side skin as the flaps are extended, there is never an interference issue. I made the pushrod tube long enough that there is no way it will ever spin off either heim bearing and I do have a jam nut at the top of the tube (at the flap arm). My only concern is whether the jam at the bottom is needed for extra strain relief on the pushrod tube. If you recall, this is a thick wall aluminum tube that is threaded to accept the heim bearings. Without the jam nut on the bottom bearing, all the stress goes into the threads inside the tube. Whereas if there is a jam nut on the bearing, some of the stresses are transferred to the entire wall thickness of the tube. It would seem that having the jam nut on might help stave off a failure of the pushrod tube that might occur without it. But....don't know if I'm splitting hairs here. Is that what the jam nut is for? Will there be a premature failure at that end of the tube if there is no jam nut? Or...can I just fly without it? Thanks. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM First engine run this weekend. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2008
From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: IMC - What If???
Good point about lighting and agree, but one fine point. Most static and ground straps help the airframe more than avionics. You need to isolate the avionics from the airframe and feed it with a truly isolated interrupt power supply. Most "homebuilt" EFIS don't have to meet any specs but many do try to have at least a regulated power supply. That is good to protect the expensive parts in the main box but may sacrifice it self in a surge. Bottom line it goes dark. Lighting is an amazing and powerful force that we have scratched the surface. I have been a pilot of planes that have been hit by lighting from a small twin (aerostar) to large twins B737. Each time damage was done but to the airframe not the avionics. Not saying that will be the case every time, just my experience. The day will come that a EFIS causes a GA accident in IMC. There have been plenty from vacuum pumps, so its not shocker the risk is there. >From: RobHickman(at)aol.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: IMC - What If??? >Bruce(at)glasair.org writes: >What's gonna happen when you're up there >and a lighting bolt strikes your RV and >fries all your electrical systems? >Without ground straps on your control >surfaces and static wicks your >electronics could be the least of your >problems. Actually we spent a lot of >time with the help of Crossbow designing >in lightning protection on the >electrical connections that wire to the >EFIS. Crossbow has extensive experience >with passing the lightning protection >requirements for certification. We have >not actually done lightning verification >testing of our EFIS or the RV-10. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Question on Wood props
Date: Sep 26, 2008
1) Contact the prop maker 2) Consult an experienced local A&P/IA I am not suggesting irrational fear but you don't want to make mistakes on prop installation. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RobHickman(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 26, 2008
Subject: Re: IMC - What If???
In a message dated 9/26/2008 6:17:04 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com writes: Most "homebuilt" EFIS don't have to meet any specs but many do try to have at least a regulated power supply. That is good to protect the expensive parts in the main box but may sacrifice it self in a surge. Bottom line it goes dark. The AFS internal Lithium battery powers the system after the protected regulated power supply. If a voltage spike takes out the regulator the screen will not go dark until the battery run's down, usually over an hour. Rob Hickman Advanced Flight Systems **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2008
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Question on Wood props
Doubt many A&P/IA have much experience with wood props anymore, I would contact Ed Sturba, in the past I have found him to be a fantastic person to deal with. As long as the the lug inserts fit tight you are going to be ok with proper torq but still get his opinion. Jerry Ron Lee wrote: > > 1) Contact the prop maker > > 2) Consult an experienced local A&P/IA > > I am not suggesting irrational fear but you don't want to make mistakes > on prop installation. > > Ron Lee > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2008
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: IMC - What If???
RobHickman(at)aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/26/2008 6:17:04 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com writes: > > Most "homebuilt" EFIS don't have to meet > any specs but many do try to have at least > a regulated power supply. That is good to > protect the expensive parts in the main box > but may sacrifice it self in a surge. > > Bottom line it goes dark. > > > The AFS internal Lithium battery powers the system after the protected > regulated power supply. If a voltage spike takes out the regulator the screen > will not go dark until the battery run's down, usually over an hour. > > > Has the ability of the EFIS to remain powered after a lightning strike been validated by any HIRF/lightning testing, or is it purely hypothetical? Lots of stuff that looks good on paper fails when subjected to testing. Kevin Horton -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (Flight Test Phase) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2008
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Flighttime Radio tomorrow
We are having Joe Norris on the show tomorrow morning at 10:07 AM eastern time at www.flighttimeradio.com. Joe is the new homebuilt community manager for EAA. He was the top tech support guy there for a log time and is probably the most knowledegeable people I know with experimental and certified aircraft. It would be great if some of you wanted to call into the show and ask Joe some technical questions. The number is 904-854-1320. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RobHickman(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 26, 2008
Subject: Re: IMC - What If???
In a message dated 9/26/2008 12:20:58 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, khorton01(at)rogers.com writes: Has the ability of the EFIS to remain powered after a lightning strike been validated by any HIRF/lightning testing, or is it purely hypothetical? Lots of stuff that looks good on paper fails when subjected to testing. You must have not read my original response, In a message dated 9/25/2008 4:55:37 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, RobHickman writes: Actually we spent a lot of time with the help of Crossbow designing in lightning protection on the electrical connections that wire to the EFIS. Crossbow has extensive experience with passing the lightning protection requirements for certification. We have not actually done lightning verification testing of our EFIS or the RV-10. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: IMC - What If???
Date: Sep 26, 2008
Just remember, with a non TSO'd EFIS, you and your family are the Beta testers. Bruce www.Glasair.org <http://www.glasair.org/> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RobHickman(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 5:24 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: IMC - What If??? In a message dated 9/26/2008 12:20:58 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, khorton01(at)rogers.com writes: Has the ability of the EFIS to remain powered after a lightning strike been validated by any HIRF/lightning testing, or is it purely hypothetical? Lots of stuff that looks good on paper fails when subjected to testing. You must have not read my original response, In a message dated 9/25/2008 4:55:37 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, RobHickman writes: Actually we spent a lot of time with the help of Crossbow designing in lightning protection on the electrical connections that wire to the EFIS. Crossbow has extensive experience with passing the lightning protection requirements for certification. We have not actually done lightning verification testing of our EFIS or the RV-10. _____ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life fi382257x1200540686/aol?redir=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntus wall086 /aol?redir=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001" target="_blank">Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bret Smith" <smithhb(at)tds.net>
Subject: IMC - What If???
Date: Sep 26, 2008
Bruce, Following your rationale, anyone who flies a non-certificated aircraft is a Beta tester... I fail to accept your premise. Bret Smith RV-9A N16BL Blue Ridge, Ga www.FlightInnovations.com <http://www.flightinnovations.com/> _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 10:55 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Just remember, with a non TSO'd EFIS, you and your family are the Beta testers. Bruce www.Glasair.org <http://www.glasair.org/> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RobHickman(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 5:24 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: IMC - What If??? In a message dated 9/26/2008 12:20:58 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, khorton01(at)rogers.com writes: Has the ability of the EFIS to remain powered after a lightning strike been validated by any HIRF/lightning testing, or is it purely hypothetical? Lots of stuff that looks good on paper fails when subjected to testing. You must have not read my original response, In a message dated 9/25/2008 4:55:37 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, RobHickman writes: Actually we spent a lot of time with the help of Crossbow designing in lightning protection on the electrical connections that wire to the EFIS. Crossbow has extensive experience with passing the lightning protection requirements for certification. We have not actually done lightning verification testing of our EFIS or the RV-10. _____ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life fi382257x1200540686/aol?redir=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall086 /aol?redir=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001" target="_blank">Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: IMC - What If???
Date: Sep 27, 2008
Yes, to a degree. I built my Glasair III, you built your RV-9. We both know how it was done and the care and pride we took in it. I didn't write the code in my EHSI or your EFIS. I have no idea of the care or competence that went into it. Meeting TSO specs is one way to gage that level. Finding a bunch of pilots willing to bet their lives on it and fly it around for several thousand hours is another. No thanks, I'll pass. Bruce www.Glasair.org <http://www.glasair.org/> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bret Smith Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 11:33 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Bruce, Following your rationale, anyone who flies a non-certificated aircraft is a Beta tester... I fail to accept your premise. Bret Smith RV-9A N16BL Blue Ridge, Ga www.FlightInnovations.com <http://www.flightinnovations.com/> _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 10:55 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Just remember, with a non TSO'd EFIS, you and your family are the Beta testers. Bruce www.Glasair.org <http://www.glasair.org/> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RobHickman(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 5:24 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: IMC - What If??? In a message dated 9/26/2008 12:20:58 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, khorton01(at)rogers.com writes: Has the ability of the EFIS to remain powered after a lightning strike been validated by any HIRF/lightning testing, or is it purely hypothetical? Lots of stuff that looks good on paper fails when subjected to testing. You must have not read my original response, In a message dated 9/25/2008 4:55:37 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, RobHickman writes: Actually we spent a lot of time with the help of Crossbow designing in lightning protection on the electrical connections that wire to the EFIS. Crossbow has extensive experience with passing the lightning protection requirements for certification. We have not actually done lightning verification testing of our EFIS or the RV-10. _____ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life fi382257x1200540686/aol?redir=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntus wall086 /aol?redir=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001" target="_blank">Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil leak
From: "bluesidedown" <mbick(at)carolina.rr.com>
Date: Sep 27, 2008
Chris, I would be glad to help but the right angle is relative to your installation. The goal though is simple; you want to create at the very least a neutral pressure effect and optimally a little negative pressure for positive crankcase ventilation. What I did for mine was to find a spot on one of the exhaust tubes that is relatively close to the end but free of interference from engine and airframe and not so close the oil doesnt get a chance to burn. I cut a hole in it and then fitted the tube to fit at about a 45 degree angle back and flush with the inside of the exhaust tube gound to fit the curvature. Now some have shown to extend the tube into the exhaust to create a greater effect. I believe with a single tube that would cause restrictions, but with the 4 into 1 collector you could probably get by with it. I really wish I had a dyno an extra engine and some vacuum gauges to put it to science, but I dont. Like anything getting close to or into the exhaust there is the risk of fire. So one should be careful to have enough tube coming out of the exhaust (about 3 to 4 inches depending on airflow) to keep the heat from burning the breather tube and you should replace the breather tube with high temp hose. I used the blue hose from AC spruce and so far no discoloration or sign of stress, so I guess it is OK. I hope that helps. Summit racing and other race shops sell kits to do such a thing and one I found had a screw in weldment which I used on the acrosport. But I did grind off some of the screw in tube to keep it from protruding too much into the exhaust pipe. SO it might be worth looking into too. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6418#206418 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: IMC - What If???
Date: Sep 27, 2008
MessageActually Bret he is right. I read about one guy (RV I think) who had two different EFIS systems (different makers). He was in IMC and maybe on approach or setting up for approach the main one quit functioning properly. The other one worked. I don't recall the specifics but it may have been a software/database issue. Ron Lee Bruce, Following your rationale, anyone who flies a non-certificated aircraft is a Beta tester... I fail to accept your premise. Bret Smith RV-9A N16BL Blue Ridge, Ga www.FlightInnovations.com Just remember, with a non TSO'd EFIS, you and your family are the Beta testers. Bruce www.Glasair.org ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: IMC - What If???
Date: Sep 27, 2008
Yes, it was a GRT EFIS that locked up because a runway was not selected before a vector to final was initiated. He had another Dyon that kept working. He used his AP as the tie breaker. Said it was the most terrifying 10 minutes of his life. Bruce www.Glasair.org <http://www.glasair.org/> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:05 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Actually Bret he is right. I read about one guy (RV I think) who had two different EFIS systems (different makers). He was in IMC and maybe on approach or setting up for approach the main one quit functioning properly. The other one worked. I don't recall the specifics but it may have been a software/database issue. Ron Lee Bruce, Following your rationale, anyone who flies a non-certificated aircraft is a Beta tester... I fail to accept your premise. Bret Smith RV-9A N16BL Blue Ridge, Ga www.FlightInnovations.com Just remember, with a non TSO'd EFIS, you and your family are the Beta testers. Bruce www.Glasair.org ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2008
From: Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Oil leak
--- On Sat, 9/27/08, bluesidedown wrote: > From: bluesidedown <mbick(at)carolina.rr.com> > Subject: RV-List: Re: Oil leak > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Saturday, September 27, 2008, 8:41 AM > > snipped > Summit racing and other race shops sell > kits to do such a thing and one I found had a screw in > weldment which I used on the Acrosport. But I did grind off > some of the screw in tube to keep it from protruding too > much into the exhaust pipe. SO it might be worth looking > into too. snipped Bluesidedown, I checked the Summit site. However, it is so vast I am having trouble locating the kit you mentioned above. Two questions: #1 What is the proper name of this kit? #2 Is it found it the EXHAUST section or the BREATHER section? Charlie Kuss ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RobHickman(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 27, 2008
Subject: Re: IMC - What If???
In a message dated 9/26/2008 7:58:03 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Bruce(at)glasair.org writes: Just remember, with a non TSO'd EFIS, you and your family are the Beta testers. Just because it is TSO'd does not mean it will not fail or have software issues. Last spring I borrowed the new factory Glasair Sportsman with dual AFS EFIS's for two months. We absolutely loved the plane and flew it for over 50 hours, including a trip to San Francisco. We only had two problems in the 50 hours that we flew it. The first problems started after the software in the TSO=99d Garmin 430W was updated causing the screen to wash out an d disappear in flight. The second problem happened after we entered the Class B airspace on our San Francisco trip, after about 5 minutes of silence (not much traffic today in the Bay Area?) We noticed that the TSO=99d 430W had f ailed at the worst possible time. The radio was sent back to Garmin for repair and it worked great, until it failed again on Glasair=99s trip to Sun-n-Fun. Anything can and will have problems, you need to have the proper training so that you can recognize and handle the failure. The following is from: _http://www.alexisparkinn.com/nwpilot's_tranatlantic_flight.htm_ (http://www .alexisparkinn.com/nwpilot's_tranatlantic_flight.htm) Then, the G1000 started to go nuts, with the fuel indicators displaying red X's. Next, I received a CO2 detector failure, then GPS-1 failure! At this point I was thinking "What next!?" Well, I didn't have to wait long: The G1000 display suddenly went black, with white text in the left hand corner saying "initializing system"! (Note: All this was happening at night, locked in the soup, at FL070 and 200+ miles from the nearest land -- with almost no communication with a ground-based person!) **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips a nd calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2008
From: bert murillo <robertrv607(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: IMC - What If???
Kevin: Would be interesting to hear from EFIS People... on this I will call them -------- next week to hear what the have to say, as to what is the test they do on -------- their products...and what- is the record of fail ures as of now... - -------- Bert --- On Fri, 9/26/08, Kevin Horton wrote: From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Date: Friday, September 26, 2008, 3:14 PM RobHickman(at)aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/26/2008 6:17:04 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com writes: > > Most "homebuilt" EFIS don't have to meet > any specs but many do try to have at least > a regulated power supply. That is good to > protect the expensive parts in the main box > but may sacrifice it self in a surge. > > Bottom line it goes dark. > > > The AFS internal Lithium battery powers the system after the protected > regulated power supply. If a voltage spike takes out the regulator the screen > will not go dark until the battery run's down, usually over an hour. > > > Has the ability of the EFIS to remain powered after a lightning strike been validated by any HIRF/lightning testing, or is it purely hypothetical? Lots of stuff that looks good on paper fails when subjected to testing. Kevin Horton -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (Flight Test Phase) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2008
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: IMC - What If???
RobHickman(at)aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/26/2008 7:58:03 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > Bruce(at)glasair.org writes: > > Just remember, with a non TSO'd EFIS, you and your family are the Beta > testers. > > > > Just because it is TSO'd does not mean it will not fail or have software > issues. Last spring I borrowed the new factory Glasair Sportsman with dual AFS > EFIS's for two months. We absolutely loved the plane and flew it for over > 50 hours, including a trip to San Francisco. We only had two problems in the > 50 hours that we flew it. The first problems started after the software in > the TSOd Garmin 430W was updated causing the screen to wash out and disappear > in flight. The second problem happened after we entered the Class B > airspace on our San Francisco trip, after about 5 minutes of silence (not much > traffic today in the Bay Area?) We noticed that the TSOd 430W had failed at the > worst possible time. The radio was sent back to Garmin for repair and it > worked great, until it failed again on Glasairs trip to Sun-n-Fun. > Anything can and will have problems, you need to have the proper training > so that you can recognize and handle the failure. > > The following is from: > _http://www.alexisparkinn.com/nwpilot's_tranatlantic_flight.htm_ (http://www.alexisparkinn.com/nwpilot's_tranatlantic_flight.htm) > > Then, the G1000 started to go nuts, with the fuel indicators displaying red > X's. Next, I received a CO2 detector failure, then GPS-1 failure! At this > point I was thinking "What next!?" > Well, I didn't have to wait long: The G1000 display suddenly went black, > with white text in the left hand corner saying "initializing system"! > (Note: All this was happening at night, locked in the soup, at FL070 and > 200+ miles from the nearest land -- with almost no communication with a > ground-based person!) > > > The DO-178B software development process is no iron-clad guarantee either. All it does is provide a higher level of confidence that the software was correctly coded such that is works according to the specification provided by the system designer. But, it provides no guarantee that the software specification is in fact correct. I know of multiple occassions where systems with DO-178B Level A (the highest level) software had major software faults (HUD showing pitch and bank in the wrong direction, fly-by-wire software crashing, etc) - not because of software coding errors, but because the software spec did not foresee all possible operating scenarios. TSO approval and DO-178B software cert are useful benchmarks, but it is only with many units in service for many thousands of hours that we start to develope confidence that the units are trustworthy. Assume that any device will either fail, or worse, that it will mislead you. This assumption is important no matter what approvals the device has. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (Flight Test Phase) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2008
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: IMC - What If???
Bert - there are so many different reasons that an EFIS could fail, or mislead you, that you should simply assume that it could occur. This is true whether they have done lightning tests or not. Don't bet your life on it not failing. Have suitable backups installed, and be ready and capable enough (i.e. proficient to use the backups in real IMC conditions) to use them. Kevin bert murillo wrote: > Kevin: Would be interesting to hear from EFIS People... on this I will call them > next week to hear what the have to say, as to what is the test they do on > their products...and what is the record of failures as of now... > > Bert > > --- On Fri, 9/26/08, Kevin Horton wrote: > > From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: IMC - What If??? > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Friday, September 26, 2008, 3:14 PM > > > RobHickman(at)aol.com wrote: > >> >> In a message dated 9/26/2008 6:17:04 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >> gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com writes: >> >> Most "homebuilt" EFIS don't have to meet >> any specs but many do try to have at least >> a regulated power supply. That is good to >> protect the expensive parts in the main box >> but may sacrifice it self in a surge. >> >> Bottom line it goes dark. >> >> >> >> The AFS internal Lithium battery powers the system after the protected >> regulated power supply. If a voltage spike takes out the regulator the >> > screen > >> will not go dark until the battery run's down, usually over an hour. >> >> >> >> > > Has the ability of the EFIS to remain powered after a lightning strike > been validated by any HIRF/lightning testing, or is it purely > hypothetical? Lots of stuff that looks good on paper fails when > subjected to testing. > > Kevin Horton > > -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (Flight Test Phase) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ferrerg(at)comcast.net
Subject: RTV Gap "Bridge" Limit
Date: Sep 27, 2008
Can "hot temperature (650 deg F intermittent) RTV" "safely" cover a 1/8 inch gap? Background: I, finally, was able to cut the rear of my new carburetor air box mounting plate so that it would fit and lay practically flat around the carburetor air intake. However, when I cut the plate I created a 1/8 inch wide gap by 3/8 inch long between the edge of the plate and the body of the carburetor. My plan is to cover the gap with the above RTV. My concern is if the carburetor has enough suction power to suck in the RTV. If anyone has any experience on this topic I would appreciate your advice. Thank you -- Gabe A Ferrer RV6 N2GX South Florida's Treasure Coast email: ferrerg(at)comcast.net cell: 561 758 8894
Can "hot temperature (650 deg F intermittent) RTV" "safely" cover a 1/8 inch gap?
 
Background:
 
I, finally, was able to cut the rear of my new carburetor air box mounting plate so that it would fit and lay practically flat around the carburetor air intake.
 
However, when I cut the plate I created a 1/8 inch wide gap by 3/8 inch long between the edge of the plate and the body of the carburetor.
 
My plan is to cover the gap with the above RTV.
 
My concern is if the carburetor has enough suction power to suck in the RTV.
 
If anyone has any experience on this topic I would appreciate your advice.
 
Thank you  
 
--
Gabe A Ferrer
RV6 N2GX
South Florida's Treasure Coast
email: ferrerg(at)comcast.net
cell: 561 758 8894

      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2008
From: "David Schaefer" <n142ds(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Save me from UGLY!
I'm working on a plan to install a Zaon traffic monitor in the 6A-slider. However, I can't take the idea of that ugly box above the panel!! Not to mention the view it will block. I'm working on a plan to mount it off the baggage compartment bulkhead with a mount that moves it up into the canopy and about 8" to 10" forward so it's about 12" to 18" or so up behind the passengers head. SHOULD have a good view of the sky and yet be out of the way with the display sent to my EFIS units. Any other thoughts where to mount this? Has anyone done this yet so I don't have to re-invent the wheel?!? Thanks..... -- David W. Schaefer RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS www.n142ds.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Mortimore" <terry.mortimore(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Flighttime Radio tomorrow
Date: Sep 27, 2008
Hi Brian: Please, please, please update the archives. I'm not able to listen live saturday mornings but I sure do enjoy the show when I can download it and listen to it at work. Another fan, Terry. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 5:18 PM Subject: RV-List: Flighttime Radio tomorrow > > We are having Joe Norris on the show tomorrow morning at 10:07 AM eastern > time at www.flighttimeradio.com. Joe is the new homebuilt community > manager for EAA. He was the top tech support guy there for a log time and > is probably the most knowledegeable people I know with experimental and > certified aircraft. It would be great if some of you wanted to call into > the show and ask Joe some technical questions. The number is > 904-854-1320. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2008
From: Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RTV Gap "Bridge" Limit
Gabe, The RTV will easily fill that gap. HOWEVER, fuel dripping down will slowly soften, then dissolve the RTV over time. Type B Proseal (what Vans sells) would be a better choice considering the sealant's exposure to gasoline. I often use gasoline to clean RTV off of various auto engine parts. RTV should never be used on fuel system components. Charlie Kuss --- On Sat, 9/27/08, ferrerg(at)comcast.net wrote: > From: ferrerg(at)comcast.net <ferrerg(at)comcast.net> > Subject: RV-List: RTV Gap "Bridge" Limit > To: "RV List" > Date: Saturday, September 27, 2008, 6:11 PM > Can "hot temperature (650 deg F intermittent) RTV" > "safely" cover a 1/8 inch gap? > > Background: > > I, finally, was able to cut the rear of my new carburetor > air box mounting plate so that it would fit and lay > practically flat around the carburetor air intake. > > However, when I cut the plate I created a 1/8 inch wide gap > by 3/8 inch long between the edge of the plate and the body > of the carburetor. > > My plan is to cover the gap with the above RTV. > > My concern is if the carburetor has enough suction power to > suck in the RTV. > > If anyone has any experience on this topic I would > appreciate your advice. > > Thank you > > -- > Gabe A Ferrer > RV6 N2GX > South Florida's Treasure Coast > email: ferrerg(at)comcast.net > cell: 561 758 8894 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2008
From: bert murillo <robertrv607(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Save me from UGLY!
David: - One of the firends that have also an rv6a, has this unit.. what he did, and I can tell you his panel- is full....he took a, Office depot- desk folders ho ld,- i think this is wha is called,, any how is a type of tray, I think is nos solid but the wire type.. is just small basket,, he then installed under the panel where the Map Box" according to Van's, is located,, and it works fine, according to him... is only about 3 inches, I do not know if he cutted to fit better... Is an Idea you can consider.... - bert rv6a --- On Sat, 9/27/08, David Schaefer wrote: From: David Schaefer <n142ds(at)gmail.com> Subject: RV-List: Save me from UGLY! Date: Saturday, September 27, 2008, 7:45 PM I'm working on a plan to install a Zaon traffic monitor in the 6A-slider. - However, I can't take the idea of that ugly box above the panel!!- No t to mention the view it will block. I'm working on a plan to mount it off the baggage compartment bulkhead with a mount that moves it up into the can opy and about 8" to 10" forward so it's about 12" to 18" or so up behind th e passengers head.- SHOULD have a good view of the sky and yet be out of the way with the display sent to my EFIS units. Any other thoughts where to mount this?- Has anyone done this yet so I don't have to re-invent the wheel?!?- Thanks..... -- David W. Schaefer RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS www.n142ds.com =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2008
From: bert murillo <robertrv607(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RTV Gap "Bridge" Limit
Gabriel: - I have rv6a, with the Scherb--Marvel, is that the correct name carb.. I do ;not remember having any problem with the air box, the plate fit just right. - The only thing I had to, was to open the small oval, llike hole, to fit the humb\p that is on the left side of the Carb( view from the Cockpit)- with care i t was very small, and fit perfectly,- I did fill the small gap maybe and 1/8 around, with heat resitant RV...the red kind.. that was all.- I have never had any pro blem as of today.. - I do not know if the plates supplied now from Van's is any different.... Hope this will help - bert --- On Sat, 9/27/08, ferrerg(at)comcast.net wrote: From: ferrerg(at)comcast.net <ferrerg(at)comcast.net> Subject: RV-List: RTV Gap "Bridge" Limit Date: Saturday, September 27, 2008, 6:11 PM Can-"hot temperature (650 deg F intermittent)-RTV" "safely" cover-a 1 /8 inch gap? - Background: - I, finally, was-able to cut-the rear of my new carburetor air box mount ing plate so that it would fit and lay practically flat around the carburet or air intake. - However,-when I cut the plate-I-created a 1/8 inch-wide gap by 3/8 inch long-between the edge of the plate and the body of the carburetor. - My plan is to cover the gap with the above RTV. - My concern is-if the carburetor has enough suction power to suck in the R TV. - If anyone has any experience on this topic I would appreciate your advice. - Thank you-- - -- Gabe A Ferrer RV6 N2GX South Florida's Treasure Coast email: ferrerg(at)comcast.net cell: 561 758 8894 =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: IMC - What If???
Date: Sep 27, 2008
From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com>
One data point. Pair of GRT EFISs in a Velocity. 410 hours, almost 10% doing some level of IFR and not as much as a hint of a glitch...of course, that says only a little bit about the likelihood of problems tomorrow, but a set of mechanical AS, Alt, TT A/P and an MCI LifeSaver w/battery backup...not interested in challenging Mother Nature or Fate. Chuck Jensen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2008
From: "Ollie Washburn" <ollie6a(at)embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: Save me from UGLY!
Unit must face correct direction. Mine is mounted on glareshield and work good. Ollie On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 7:45 PM, David Schaefer wrote: > I'm working on a plan to install a Zaon traffic monitor in the 6A-slider. > However, I can't take the idea of that ugly box above the panel!! Not to > mention the view it will block. I'm working on a plan to mount it off the > baggage compartment bulkhead with a mount that moves it up into the canopy > and about 8" to 10" forward so it's about 12" to 18" or so up behind the > passengers head. SHOULD have a good view of the sky and yet be out of the > way with the display sent to my EFIS units. > > Any other thoughts where to mount this? > > Has anyone done this yet so I don't have to re-invent the wheel?!? > > Thanks..... > > -- > David W. Schaefer > RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" > TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS > www.n142ds.com > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Save me from UGLY!
Zaon is working on a remote mounted version of their collision avoidance system that will have a "black box", external antenna(s), and probably a 3.125" "instrument" for display/control. If you're going to be feeding an EFIS, then you might not even need to mount the 3.125" on the panel as control and display could come from the EFIS. Send Zaon Support some email and ask them about their "panel mount" version and when it will be available. Report back; I'm waiting for the panel mount version for my RV-8, although my panel is already full and adding a 3.125" is going to be tough... Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 At 04:45 PM 9/27/2008 Saturday, you wrote: >I'm working on a plan to install a Zaon traffic monitor in the 6A-slider. However, I can't take the idea of that ugly box above the panel!! Not to mention the view it will block. I'm working on a plan to mount it off the baggage compartment bulkhead with a mount that moves it up into the canopy and about 8" to 10" forward so it's about 12" to 18" or so up behind the passengers head. SHOULD have a good view of the sky and yet be out of the way with the display sent to my EFIS units. > >Any other thoughts where to mount this? > >Has anyone done this yet so I don't have to re-invent the wheel?!? > >Thanks..... > >-- >David W. Schaefer >RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" >TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS ><http://www.n142ds.com>www.n142ds.com > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2008
From: "David Schaefer" <n142ds(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Save me from UGLY!
Matt ... I suspect the wait will be a VERY long time. They have dumped the idea prior to OSH this year. Thanks.... DWS On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > Zaon is working on a remote mounted version of their collision avoidance > system that will have a "black box", external antenna(s), and probably a > 3.125" "instrument" for display/control. If you're going to be feeding an > EFIS, then you might not even need to mount the 3.125" on the panel as > control and display could come from the EFIS. Send Zaon Support some email > and ask them about their "panel mount" version and when it will be > available. Report back; I'm waiting for the panel mount version for my > RV-8, although my panel is already full and adding a 3.125" is going to be > tough... > > Matt Dralle > RV-8 #82880 > > > At 04:45 PM 9/27/2008 Saturday, you wrote: > >I'm working on a plan to install a Zaon traffic monitor in the 6A-slider. > However, I can't take the idea of that ugly box above the panel!! Not to > mention the view it will block. I'm working on a plan to mount it off the > baggage compartment bulkhead with a mount that moves it up into the canopy > and about 8" to 10" forward so it's about 12" to 18" or so up behind the > passengers head. SHOULD have a good view of the sky and yet be out of the > way with the display sent to my EFIS units. > > > >Any other thoughts where to mount this? > > > >Has anyone done this yet so I don't have to re-invent the wheel?!? > > > >Thanks..... > > > >-- > >David W. Schaefer > >RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" > >TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS > ><http://www.n142ds.com>www.n142ds.com > > > > > > > > > > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 > 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email > http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft > > -- David W. Schaefer RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS www.n142ds.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dick martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com>
Subject: Re: ACI Props
Date: Sep 26, 2008
Stephan, I have been testing and selling ACI props since they began to sell them. They are brilliant engineers, however, they are not very good sales people. At the present time, I believe they are probably involved in some large military contracts and are neglecting there everyday light plane propellers. If you would like to continue this contact with me, I will be happy to try to assist you. I have over 500 hours on my RV8 equipped with an Aero Composite propeller. I have also as mentioned tested many of the propeller variations that they have designed. Please advise what type of airplane and engine size that you intend to use, and I will advise what I think from my experience with ACI props would be the best for you. I would be happy to talk directly with you by telephone if you like. The best time to call me is between 8am to 5pm Central Daylight time (8 hours time differential between Europe time and central US time) My telephone number is 920 619 6968 cellphone. I am flying almost everyday, so if I do not answer my phone, try later in the day until 9pm in the evening. I do not look at the internet everyday as you can see by the timeing of this Email. Dick Martin RV8 N233M the fast one ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephan Servatius To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 1:40 PM Subject: RV-List: ACI Props Dear fellow builders, For my new project I try to get the Aero Composite people on the phone. I tried it a couple of times and send emails, no respond. Does anybody know what's going on there or if the business is already sold to someone else? Stephan RV8 D-EBRV 185 hrs. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Hedrick" <khedrick(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: RE: rivets working
Date: Sep 28, 2008
Any thoughts on some rivets that are working in the horizontal stabilizer in my RV 6. it is the inboard rivets and it is on both sides. I have noticed this over a 3 or 4 yr period and it continues to involve more rivets. Is this a common thing in older rv=92s, mine is a vintage 1991. in fact it was # 9 rv 6 kit sold. The air frame has almost 1000 hrs on it. how do I stop it and how do I fix the damage ? Thanks Keith Hedrick 64DK @ 3LF Checked by AVG. 9/27/2008 1:11 PM Checked by AVG. 9/27/2008 1:11 PM Checked by AVG. 9/27/2008 1:11 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: Save me from UGLY!
Date: Sep 28, 2008
You can remote mount the current unit if you have a TIS compatible display like a 396/496. There's an internal jumper mod they can do to allow it to power up without having to press a front panel button. I had a long conversation with Zane (the ZA of Zaon) and he said they do the mod for sailplane installations. You still have to put the antenna somewhere it's not seriously blocked. He did say you could adjust the gain of each quadrant separately to deal with some location issues. Regards, Greg Young _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Schaefer Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:23 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Save me from UGLY! Matt ... I suspect the wait will be a VERY long time. They have dumped the idea prior to OSH this year. Thanks.... DWS On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Matt Dralle wrote: Zaon is working on a remote mounted version of their collision avoidance system that will have a "black box", external antenna(s), and probably a 3.125" "instrument" for display/control. If you're going to be feeding an EFIS, then you might not even need to mount the 3.125" on the panel as control and display could come from the EFIS. Send Zaon Support some email and ask them about their "panel mount" version and when it will be available. Report back; I'm waiting for the panel mount version for my RV-8, although my panel is already full and adding a 3.125" is going to be tough... Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 At 04:45 PM 9/27/2008 Saturday, you wrote: >I'm working on a plan to install a Zaon traffic monitor in the 6A-slider. However, I can't take the idea of that ugly box above the panel!! Not to mention the view it will block. I'm working on a plan to mount it off the baggage compartment bulkhead with a mount that moves it up into the canopy and about 8" to 10" forward so it's about 12" to 18" or so up behind the passengers head. SHOULD have a good view of the sky and yet be out of the way with the display sent to my EFIS units. > >Any other thoughts where to mount this? > >Has anyone done this yet so I don't have to re-invent the wheel?!? > >Thanks..... > >-- >David W. Schaefer >RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" >TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS ><http://www.n142ds.com>www.n142ds.com > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft -- David W. Schaefer RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS www.n142ds.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: rivets working
Date: Sep 28, 2008
From: "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Working rivets, sometimes called "Smokin Rivets" can be the result of flight induced stress and strain from flight forces, airframe design technique and riveting technique. Often, the removed rivets have "Fretted" in their respective holes. Fretting is a form of corrosion. The removal and re-riveting is one method of remediation. Installing the replaced rivets "Wet" is another. There are lots of RV6 guys who should pipe in as to whether this is a reasonably common incident. I have completed a Pre-purchase Inspection and then subsequent Conditional Inspection on a 9 year old, 900 hour 6A without such a finding on a base white topcoat. Cracks which developed early in the flight life have been followed without apparent growth. We measured each and documented them for quantitative comparison next January. These are valued issues to discuss. The original owner moved onto an RV-10 and is now tackling an RV-3 project. John Cox From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hedrick Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:33 PM Subject: RV-List: RE: rivets working Any thoughts on some rivets that are working in the horizontal stabilizer in my RV 6. it is the inboard rivets and it is on both sides. I have noticed this over a 3 or 4 yr period and it continues to involve more rivets. Is this a common thing in older rv's, mine is a vintage 1991. in fact it was # 9 rv 6 kit sold. The air frame has almost 1000 hrs on it. how do I stop it and how do I fix the damage ? Thanks Keith Hedrick 64DK @ 3LF Checked by AVG. 9/27/2008 1:11 PM Checked by AVG. 9/27/2008 1:11 PM Checked by AVG. 9/27/2008 1:11 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: IMC - What If???
From: "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com>
Date: Sep 29, 2008
Its not only the EFIS or its programming you need to worry about. My F1 was all electric. 2 different EFISs. All went black when the solenoid failed. You need to plan backup into the sytems of the aircraft also. -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6712#206712 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Re: IMC - What If???
Date: Sep 29, 2008
That's why my ADI backup is Vacuum. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N395V Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 8:49 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: IMC - What If??? Its not only the EFIS or its programming you need to worry about. My F1 was all electric. 2 different EFISs. All went black when the solenoid failed. You need to plan backup into the sytems of the aircraft also. -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6712#206712 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Mack" <don(at)dmack.net>
Subject: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A
Date: Sep 29, 2008
Hello, I am trying to add an AOA to my Dynon on my 6A. It connects to the Dynon Pitot. I am attempting to run the tubing behind the tank and in front of the spar. I am trying to do this without removing the tank. I can not get the tube to go through. It feels like it is going to the end of the tank and being blocked. I shined a flashlight down the space at the wing root in a dark hanger and could not see any light when I looked from the wingtip to the tank. I do not see anything on the plans that would indicate something is there. Does anyone know if there is something there or a suggesting for running the tube? Don Mack ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Hilditch" <wmjack1(at)t3cs.net>
Subject: RE: rivets working
Date: Sep 29, 2008
Good morning, There's an excellent discussion on the engineering tips forum on rivets and replacement (albeit on much heavier airframes) but it is certainly worth a read. http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=15349 <http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=15349&page=6> &page=6 I would also guess that you could get a specific answer there as well. Regards, Jack Riviting my RV-9A Fuselage at the moment. _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 11:31 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: rivets working Working rivets, sometimes called "Smokin Rivets" can be the result of flight induced stress and strain from flight forces, airframe design technique and riveting technique. Often, the removed rivets have "Fretted" in their respective holes. Fretting is a form of corrosion. The removal and re-riveting is one method of remediation. Installing the replaced rivets "Wet" is another. There are lots of RV6 guys who should pipe in as to whether this is a reasonably common incident. I have completed a Pre-purchase Inspection and then subsequent Conditional Inspection on a 9 year old, 900 hour 6A without such a finding on a base white topcoat. Cracks which developed early in the flight life have been followed without apparent growth. We measured each and documented them for quantitative comparison next January. These are valued issues to discuss. The original owner moved onto an RV-10 and is now tackling an RV-3 project. John Cox From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hedrick Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:33 PM Subject: RV-List: RE: rivets working Any thoughts on some rivets that are working in the horizontal stabilizer in my RV 6. it is the inboard rivets and it is on both sides. I have noticed this over a 3 or 4 yr period and it continues to involve more rivets. Is this a common thing in older rv's, mine is a vintage 1991. in fact it was # 9 rv 6 kit sold. The air frame has almost 1000 hrs on it. how do I stop it and how do I fix the damage ? Thanks Keith Hedrick 64DK @ 3LF Checked by AVG. 9/27/2008 1:11 PM Checked by AVG. 9/27/2008 1:11 PM Checked by AVG. 9/27/2008 1:11 PM http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2008
From: "Scott Kuebler" <scottam65(at)gmail.com>
Subject: RV-6 / 6a kits for sale
RV-6 / 6a kits for sale. Empennage: Complete except for fiberglass tips. Includes electric elevator trim kit. All parts are alodined and primed with Marhyde primer. Wings & Phlogiston Spar: Both skeletons fully assembled. Top skins riveted. Both tanks are complete and sealed. Flaps and ailerons complete, but not fitted. Includes electric aileron trim kit. All parts are alodined and primed with Deft epoxy primer (Mil-P-23377G). Both kits are the pre-punched versions purchased in 1997 & 1998 by myself. Construction is excellent. Preview plans and Orndorff videos are included for both kits. Detailed photos are available upon request. Must sell. The first $3750 takes it all. Buyer arranges transportation. If all items were purchased separately the price would be more than $6500 for the unassembled kits. Regards, Scott Kuebler Buffalo, NY 716-510-0318- cell scottam65(at)gmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mich=E8le_W?= <michele.delsol(at)microsigma.fr>
Subject: Re: IMC - What If???
Date: Sep 29, 2008
Thought I'd add my 2 cents - Both my AFS 3400/3500 have internal batteries, 1/2 hr each. Plus a portable VHF and a portable GPS. Michle RV8 - trying to get it finished. -----Message d'origine----- De: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Bruce Gray Envoy: lundi 29 septembre 2008 15:07 : rv-list(at)matronics.com Objet: RE: RV-List: Re: IMC - What If??? That's why my ADI backup is Vacuum. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N395V Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 8:49 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: IMC - What If??? Its not only the EFIS or its programming you need to worry about. My F1 was all electric. 2 different EFISs. All went black when the solenoid failed. You need to plan backup into the sytems of the aircraft also. -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6712#206712 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2008
From: "David Schaefer" <n142ds(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Save me from UGLY!
That's the plan. I'm working on a mount to attach to the baggage compartment wall and move the unit forward about 12" into the canopy. The unit already has the option to remotely turn on and it will feed my GRTs. I just wanted to see if anyone else had done it yet! Thanks... DWS On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:16 PM, Greg Young <gyoung@cs-sol.com> wrote: > You can remote mount the current unit if you have a TIS compatible > display like a 396/496. There's an internal jumper mod they can do to > allow it to power up without having to press a front panel button. I had a > long conversation with Zane (the ZA of Zaon) and he said they do the mod for > sailplane installations. You still have to put the antenna somewhere it's > not seriously blocked. He did say you could adjust the gain of each quadrant > separately to deal with some location issues. > > Regards, > Greg Young > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *David Schaefer > *Sent:* Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:23 PM > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Save me from UGLY! > > Matt ... I suspect the wait will be a VERY long time. They have dumped > the idea prior to OSH this year. > > Thanks.... > DWS > > On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Matt Dralle wrote: > >> >> Zaon is working on a remote mounted version of their collision avoidance >> system that will have a "black box", external antenna(s), and probably a >> 3.125" "instrument" for display/control. If you're going to be feeding an >> EFIS, then you might not even need to mount the 3.125" on the panel as >> control and display could come from the EFIS. Send Zaon Support some email >> and ask them about their "panel mount" version and when it will be >> available. Report back; I'm waiting for the panel mount version for my >> RV-8, although my panel is already full and adding a 3.125" is going to be >> tough... >> >> Matt Dralle >> RV-8 #82880 >> >> >> At 04:45 PM 9/27/2008 Saturday, you wrote: >> >I'm working on a plan to install a Zaon traffic monitor in the 6A-slider. >> However, I can't take the idea of that ugly box above the panel!! Not to >> mention the view it will block. I'm working on a plan to mount it off the >> baggage compartment bulkhead with a mount that moves it up into the canopy >> and about 8" to 10" forward so it's about 12" to 18" or so up behind the >> passengers head. SHOULD have a good view of the sky and yet be out of the >> way with the display sent to my EFIS units. >> > >> >Any other thoughts where to mount this? >> > >> >Has anyone done this yet so I don't have to re-invent the wheel?!? >> > >> >Thanks..... >> > >> >-- >> >David W. Schaefer >> >RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" >> >TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS >> ><http://www.n142ds.com>www.n142ds.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 >> 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email >> http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > David W. Schaefer > RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" > TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS > www.n142ds.com > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > -- David W. Schaefer RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS www.n142ds.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com>
Date: Sep 29, 2008
Subject: Re: IMC - What If???
Since I started this thread with what I thought was a straight-forward pres entation of the analysis I used in determining my panel configuration, perh aps an addition of a not-mentioned analysis factor will provide additional fuel to this debate. That factor is the reliability of vacuum -powered ins truments in the days before glass cockpits. While the focus of recent posts has been on EFIS failure what ifs, it was m y understanding that the weak link of pre-EFIS IFR flight was vacuum pump r eliability. Is that a correct statement? If it is correct, then the pre-EFIS analogy to EFIS failure is IMC flight w ith no vacuum pump. What if??????????? Seems like the challenges would be the same - establishing controlled fligh t in an upright attitude and having enough confidence in the tools and proc edures available in that mode to get it on the ground. So what do you old guys have to say? Booger ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2008
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A
Don, IIRC, there is a double rib just outboard of the tank which I drilled through and put in a set of grommets. To carry the line, I removed a few of the nutplates for the top attach screws and put an angle bracket under them for an additional nutplate which fastened an adel clamp....about three places. I have pictures at home...if you want 'em. I think I can state with confidence that the tank will need to come off - unless you snake the hose through the lightening hole in the double rib - but it'll probably rub there. Ralph RV6AQB Slider N822AR @ N06 - getting my final airworthiness application paperwork reviewed..... -----Original Message----- >From: Don Mack <don(at)dmack.net> >Sent: Sep 29, 2008 9:29 AM >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A > > >Hello, > >I am trying to add an AOA to my Dynon on my 6A. It connects to the Dynon >Pitot. I am attempting to run the tubing behind the tank and in front of the >spar. I am trying to do this without removing the tank. I can not get the >tube to go through. It feels like it is going to the end of the tank and >being blocked. I shined a flashlight down the space at the wing root in a >dark hanger and could not see any light when I looked from the wingtip to >the tank. I do not see anything on the plans that would indicate something >is there. Does anyone know if there is something there or a suggesting for >running the tube? > >Don Mack > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: IMC - What If???
Date: Sep 29, 2008
True, but we've flown behind the standard six-pack for decades and it's failure modes are well known and recognized. EFIS failures are more insidious and, unless the screen goes dark, not easy to discern. Vac pump failure is the weak link but with proper maintenance (or a wet vac pump), system reliability can be high. Bruce <http://www.glasair.org/> www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valovich, Paul Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:49 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: IMC - What If??? Since I started this thread with what I thought was a straight-forward presentation of the analysis I used in determining my panel configuration, perhaps an addition of a not-mentioned analysis factor will provide additional fuel to this debate. That factor is the reliability of vacuum -powered instruments in the days before glass cockpits. While the focus of recent posts has been on EFIS failure what ifs, it was my understanding that the weak link of pre-EFIS IFR flight was vacuum pump reliability. Is that a correct statement? If it is correct, then the pre-EFIS analogy to EFIS failure is IMC flight with no vacuum pump. What if??????????? Seems like the challenges would be the same - establishing controlled flight in an upright attitude and having enough confidence in the tools and procedures available in that mode to get it on the ground. So what do you old guys have to say? Booger ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2008
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A
No need to remove a tank! I added an LRI AOA to my flying RV-6 and the probe lines are routed through the wing rib lightning holes. Just use commons sense for securing the tubing to the ribs. I slipped a short length of rubber hose over the tubing at the ribs, drilled a 1/4" hole near the edge of a lightning hole, and secured the tubing to the rib with a zip tie. Other simple methods will work as well, no need to get complicated. If you have a wiring conduit in the wing, you may be able to snake the tubing down the conduit. Sam Buchanan ======================== Ralph E. Capen wrote: > > > Don, > > IIRC, there is a double rib just outboard of the tank which I drilled > through and put in a set of grommets. > > To carry the line, I removed a few of the nutplates for the top > attach screws and put an angle bracket under them for an additional > nutplate which fastened an adel clamp....about three places. I have > pictures at home...if you want 'em. > > I think I can state with confidence that the tank will need to come > off - unless you snake the hose through the lightening hole in the > double rib - but it'll probably rub there. > > Ralph RV6AQB Slider N822AR @ N06 - getting my final airworthiness > application paperwork reviewed..... > > -----Original Message----- >> From: Don Mack <don(at)dmack.net> Sent: Sep 29, 2008 9:29 AM To: >> rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A >> >> >> >> Hello, >> >> I am trying to add an AOA to my Dynon on my 6A. It connects to the >> Dynon Pitot. I am attempting to run the tubing behind the tank and >> in front of the spar. I am trying to do this without removing the >> tank. I can not get the tube to go through. It feels like it is >> going to the end of the tank and being blocked. I shined a >> flashlight down the space at the wing root in a dark hanger and >> could not see any light when I looked from the wingtip to the tank. >> I do not see anything on the plans that would indicate something is >> there. Does anyone know if there is something there or a suggesting >> for running the tube? >> >> Don Mack ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Fasching" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
Subject: Re: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A
Date: Sep 29, 2008
Sam is right, I cut a slit in the flex conduit in the wings and ran the tubes from the LRI into it and pushed them to the fuselage...works just fine. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2008
From: Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: IMC - What If???
Paul, Another way to improve reliability with vacuum attitude instruments is to use a "wet" vacuum pump, rather than a dry (oil-less) unit. Charlie Kuss --- On Mon, 9/29/08, Valovich, Paul wrote: > From: Valovich, Paul <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: IMC - What If??? > To: "rv-list(at)matronics.com" > Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 10:49 AM > Since I started this thread with what I thought was a > straight-forward presentation of the analysis I used in > determining my panel configuration, perhaps an addition of a > not-mentioned analysis factor will provide additional fuel > to this debate. That factor is the reliability of vacuum > -powered instruments in the days before glass cockpits. > > While the focus of recent posts has been on EFIS failure > what ifs, it was my understanding that the weak link of > pre-EFIS IFR flight was vacuum pump reliability. Is that a > correct statement? > > If it is correct, then the pre-EFIS analogy to EFIS failure > is IMC flight with no vacuum pump. What if??????????? > > Seems like the challenges would be the same - establishing > controlled flight in an upright attitude and having enough > confidence in the tools and procedures available in that > mode to get it on the ground. > > So what do you old guys have to say? > Booger ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2008
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A
John and Sam may be right about being able to run it without removing the tank by using the flex tubing - I recall my tubing being aft of the spar and Don is trying to go forward of the spar. Depending on where the Dynon computer is mounted, you may have to cross the spar eventually. -----Original Message----- >From: John Fasching <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com> >Sent: Sep 29, 2008 12:57 PM >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A > > >Sam is right, I cut a slit in the flex conduit in the wings and ran the >tubes from the LRI into it and pushed them to the fuselage...works just >fine. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2008
From: Christopher Stone <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Oil leak
Thanks for the further explination. Have you had any problem with the breather coking up from the heat of the exhaust? How far upstream is the breather intersection from the end of the exhaust outlet? Thanks, Chris Stone RV-8 Newberg, OR > > >Chris, > I would be glad to help but the right angle is relative to your installation. The goal though is simple; you want to create at the very least a neutral pressure effect and optimally a little negative pressure for positive crankcase ventilation. What I did for mine was to find a spot on one of the exhaust tubes that is relatively close to the end but free of interference from engine and airframe and not so close the oil doesnt get a chance to burn. I cut a hole in it and then fitted the tube to fit at about a 45 degree angle back and flush with the inside of the exhaust tube gound to fit the curvature. Now some have shown to extend the tube into the exhaust to create a greater effect. I believe with a single tube that would cause restrictions, but with the 4 into 1 collector you could probably get by with it. I really wish I had a dyno an extra engine and some vacuum gauges to put it to science, but I dont. > >Like anything getting close to or into the exhaust there is the risk of fire. So one should be careful to have enough tube coming out of the exhaust (about 3 to 4 inches depending on airflow) to keep the heat from burning the breather tube and you should replace the breather tube with high temp hose. I used the blue hose from AC spruce and so far no discoloration or sign of stress, so I guess it is OK. > >I hope that helps. Summit racing and other race shops sell kits to do such a thing and one I found had a screw in weldment which I used on the acrosport. But I did grind off some of the screw in tube to keep it from protruding too much into the exhaust pipe. SO it might be worth looking into too. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6418#206418 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2008
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A
Ralph E. Capen wrote: > > > John and Sam may be right about being able to run it without removing > the tank by using the flex tubing - I recall my tubing being aft of > the spar and Don is trying to go forward of the spar. Depending on > where the Dynon computer is mounted, you may have to cross the spar > eventually. The tubing has to go to the panel to be connected to the Dynon. The spar can be crossed at the same place as all the stuff going to the back of the airplane. Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2008
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A
Agreed! -----Original Message----- >From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> >Sent: Sep 29, 2008 2:34 PM >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Running AOA tubing in RV-6A > > >Ralph E. Capen wrote: >> >> >> John and Sam may be right about being able to run it without removing >> the tank by using the flex tubing - I recall my tubing being aft of >> the spar and Don is trying to go forward of the spar. Depending on >> where the Dynon computer is mounted, you may have to cross the spar >> eventually. > >The tubing has to go to the panel to be connected to the Dynon. The spar >can be crossed at the same place as all the stuff going to the back of >the airplane. > >Sam Buchanan > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Save me from UGLY!
From: "rwhittier" <flycirrus(at)aol.com>
Date: Sep 29, 2008
I am struggling with the same dilemma. I would really like to do the same but worry the performance will suffer by metal shielding signals - either inbound or outbound. Please post pictures of what you decide. Thanks. [quote="n142ds(at)gmail.com"]That's the plan. I'm working on a mount to attach to the baggage compartment wall and move the unit forward about 12" into the canopy. The unit already has the option to remotely turn on and it will feed my GRTs. I just wanted to see if anyone else had done it yet! Thanks... DWS On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:16 PM, Greg Young wrote: > You can remote mount the current unit if you have a TIS compatible display like a 396/496. There's an internal jumper mod they can do to allow it to power up without having to press a front panel button. I had a long conversation with Zane (the ZA of Zaon) and he said they do the mod for sailplane installations. You still have to put the antenna somewhere it's not seriously blocked. He did say you could adjust the gain of each quadrant separately to deal with some location issues. > > Regards, > Greg Young > > > > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of David Schaefer > > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:23 PM > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com) > > > > Subject: Re: Save me from UGLY! > > > > > > > > Matt ... I suspect the wait will be a VERY long time. They have dumped the idea prior to OSH this year. > > > > Thanks.... > > DWS > > > > On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle > > > > > > Zaon is working on a remote mounted version of their collision avoidance system that will have a "black box", external antenna(s), and probably a 3.125" "instrument" for display/control. If you're going to be feeding an EFIS, then you might not even need to mount the 3.125" on the panel as control and display could come from the EFIS. Send Zaon Support some email and ask them about their "panel mount" version and when it will be available. Report back; I'm waiting for the panel mount version for my RV-8, although my panel is already full and adding a 3.125" is going to be tough... > > > > > > Matt Dralle > > > RV-8 #82880 > > > > > > > > > At 04:45 PM 9/27/2008 Saturday, you wrote: > > > > > > > I'm working on a plan to install a Zaon traffic monitor in the 6A-slider. However, I can't take the idea of that ugly box above the panel!! Not to mention the view it will block. I'm working on a plan to mount it off the baggage compartment bulkhead with a mount that moves it up into the canopy and about 8" to 10" forward so it's about 12" to 18" or so up behind the passengers head. SHOULD have a good view of the sky and yet be out of the way with the display sent to my EFIS units. > > > > > > > > Any other thoughts where to mount this? > > > > > > > > Has anyone done this yet so I don't have to re-invent the wheel?!? > > > > > > > > Thanks..... > > > > > > > > -- > > > > David W. Schaefer > > > > RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" > > > > TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.n142ds.com (http://www.n142ds.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 > > > 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com (dralle(at)matronics.com) Email > > > http://www.matronics.com/ (http://www.matronics.com/) WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > David W. Schaefer > > RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" > > TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS > > www.n142ds.com (http://www.n142ds.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List)">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com (http://forums.matronics.com)">http://forums.matronics.com (http://forums.matronics.com) > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution (http://www.matronics.com/contribution)">http://www.matronics.com/c (http://www.matronics.com/c) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- David W. Schaefer RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS www.n142ds.com (http://www.n142ds.com) > [b] -------- Roger Whittier RV7A Tip Up, N1MY Reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6794#206794 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JFLEISC(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 29, 2008
Subject: Re: Oil leak
In a message dated 9/29/2008 1:39:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rv8iator(at)earthlink.net writes: Like anything getting close to or into the exhaust there is the risk of fire. So one should be careful to have enough tube coming out of the exhaust (about 3 to 4 inches depending on airflow) to keep the heat from burning the breather tube and you should replace the breather tube with high temp hose. I used the blue hose from AC spruce and so far no discoloration or sign of stress, so I guess it is OK. Crankcase ventilation systems have their down side. I experimented a lot with these back in the 70's on air cooled VW engines and I did, in fact, have a dynamometer to run these systems on. There was a theory that by putting a vacuum on the crankcase, and thus on the back side of the pistons, you would have that much more pressure "offset" on the top of the pistons to translate into power. It's nonsense if you think about it but I tried it anyway (no power to be seen). By placing the tube at the junction of a 4 into 1 exhaust you would be at the point of maximum venturi. Let me tell you; when done correctly at least that part works. At higher RPM the vacuum is tremendous! So much so that the engine constantly inhaled valve cover gaskets (a pretty big down side). The plus side is that NO oil leaks out while its running. The danger here is that you should have a flame arrestor in the crank vent tubing just like cars used to have in the air cleaner to valve cover tube back in the 60's. With the right amount of gas diluted in your oil a backfire could potentially ruin your day. Jim **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2008
From: "David Schaefer" <n142ds(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Save me from UGLY!
Certainly... actually if it's up in the canopy I don't believe I'll get the shielding issues as I would on the dash. We'll see. I've got the mount about done. I'll post pictures on the web-site as I make progress. Thanks... DWS On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 2:12 PM, rwhittier wrote: > > I am struggling with the same dilemma. I would really like to do the same > but worry the performance will suffer by metal shielding signals - either > inbound or outbound. Please post pictures of what you decide. Thanks. > > > [quote="n142ds(at)gmail.com"]That's the plan. I'm working on a mount to > attach to the baggage compartment wall and move the unit forward about 12" > into the canopy. The unit already has the option to remotely turn on and > it will feed my GRTs. I just wanted to see if anyone else had done it yet! > > Thanks... > DWS > > On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:16 PM, Greg Young wrote: > > > You can remote mount the current unit if you have a TIS compatible > display like a 396/496. There's an internal jumper mod they can do to allow > it to power up without having to press a front panel button. I had a long > conversation with Zane (the ZA of Zaon) and he said they do the mod for > sailplane installations. You still have to put the antenna somewhere it's > not seriously blocked. He did say you could adjust the gain of each > quadrant separately to deal with some location issues. > > > > Regards, > > Greg Young > > > > > > > > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com ( > owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto: > owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com)] > On Behalf Of David Schaefer > > > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:23 PM > > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com) > > > > > > Subject: Re: Save me from UGLY! > > > > > > > > > > > > Matt ... I suspect the wait will be a VERY long time. They have > dumped the idea prior to OSH this year. > > > > > > Thanks.... > > > DWS > > > > > > On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle > > > > > > > > Zaon is working on a remote mounted version of their collision > avoidance system that will have a "black box", external antenna(s), and > probably a 3.125" "instrument" for display/control. If you're going to > be feeding an EFIS, then you might not even need to mount the 3.125" on > the panel as control and display could come from the EFIS. Send Zaon > Support some email and ask them about their "panel mount" version and > when it will be available. Report back; I'm waiting for the panel > mount version for my RV-8, although my panel is already full and adding > a 3.125" is going to be tough... > > > > > > > > Matt Dralle > > > > RV-8 #82880 > > > > > > > > > > > > At 04:45 PM 9/27/2008 Saturday, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'm working on a plan to install a Zaon traffic monitor in the > 6A-slider. However, I can't take the idea of that ugly box above the > panel!! Not to mention the view it will block. I'm working on a plan > to mount it off the baggage compartment bulkhead with a mount that moves it > up into the canopy and about 8" to 10" forward so it's about 12" to 18" > or so up behind the passengers head. SHOULD have a good view of the > sky and yet be out of the way with the display sent to my EFIS > units. > > > > > > > > > > Any other thoughts where to mount this? > > > > > > > > > > Has anyone done this yet so I don't have to re-invent the > wheel?!? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks..... > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > David W. Schaefer > > > > > RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" > > > > > TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended > Airfoil, GRT EFIS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.n142ds.com (http://www.n142ds.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 > > > > 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com ( > dralle(at)matronics.com) Email > > > > http://www.matronics.com/ (http://www.matronics.com/) WWW | > Featuring Products For Aircraft > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > David W. Schaefer > > > RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" > > > TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT > EFIS > > > www.n142ds.com (http://www.n142ds.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ( > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List)"> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ( > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) > > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com (http://forums.matronics.com)"> > http://forums.matronics.com (http://forums.matronics.com) > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution ( > http://www.matronics.com/contribution)">http://www.matronics.com/c ( > http://www.matronics.com/c) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > David W. Schaefer > RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" > TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS > www.n142ds.com (http://www.n142ds.com) > > > > [b] > > > -------- > Roger Whittier > RV7A Tip Up, N1MY Reserved > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6794#206794 > > -- David W. Schaefer RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm" TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS www.n142ds.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Hedrick" <khedrick(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: RE: rivets working
Date: Sep 30, 2008
Hello Jack, After more reading on that list, I am thinking that maybe I should not use a stainless cherry blind rivet because of the dissimiliar metals corrosion problem that I could cause. My first thought was to drill them out and use the stainless. But even if I do that I still have a rivet that will =91smoke=92 because I don=92t think that the cherry blind will be as strong as the driven rivet and prob I still have the problem that caused the rivets to =91smoke=92. ??? any thoughts ? Keith Hedrick 1991 Rv 6 _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Hilditch Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 9:04 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: rivets working Good morning, There=92s an excellent discussion on the engineering tips forum on rivets and replacement (albeit on much heavier airframes) but it is certainly worth a read. HYPERLINK "http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=15349&page=6"http://www.e ng-tips .com/viewthread.cfm?qid=15349&page=6 I would also guess that you could get a specific answer there as well. Regards, Jack Riviting my RV-9A Fuselage at the moment. _____ Checked by AVG. 9/29/2008 7:25 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Hilditch" <wmjack1(at)t3cs.net>
Subject: RE: rivets working
Date: Sep 30, 2008
Hi Keith, I don't really have a specific suggestion on replacement strategy which is what led me to the engineering tips list in the first place. I was looking for references on 'wet' rivet replacement. I would suggest posting your question to that list so we can all benefit from what that wealth of knowledge might be able to give us. I do, however, have a story on why I think this is such an important topic, particularly to those of us who build and fly our own creations. I spent quite a few years racing sailboats, primarily in salt water environments. Most masts and more than a few hulls at the time were aluminum while hardware (fairleads, turning buckles, screws, etc.) were either stainless or bronze. Mechanically fastening dissimilar metals in a saline environment is, in essence, creating a battery. What happens then is the least noble metal becomes sacrificial and aluminum was almost always the 'sacrificial lamb.' In other words, aluminum surrendered its structural properties and turned to aluminum oxide. Periodically (at least once every year in those days) we would pull masts out of the boats to remove all rigging and fasteners. Aluminum oxide, a white powder, would be present everywhere dissimilar metals came into contact. We tried many and varied electrostatic barrier coatings to minimize the electrolysis but none of them provided a 100% solution. We knew we had a problem but those old 'gotchas' of time, technology, costs and schedules demanded we stick with a solution we knew would allow us to at least stay within a predictable serviceability matrix through constant maintenance. Was it ideal? Absolutely not, but it was what we had to work with at the time. It really got our attention, at one point in the late 1970's, when a mast-mounted halyard reel winch on a sixty-foot sailboat, under shear load in the vicinity of 6000+ lbs, was incorrectly fed its 3/8" 7x19 galvanized halyard cable. The cable imparted a 'racking' or fulcrum force to the winch thereby putting its upper SS fasteners into compression and its lower SS fasteners into tension. These fasteners had quietly built up a significant barrier coat of aluminum oxide between them and the aluminum mast due to an errant electrical current being introduced elsewhere in the (also) aluminum hull, nowhere near the mast-mounted winch. The result was the lower SS winch fasteners pulled out of the mast under load and the winch tore off the mast with great force. The modulus of elasticity in the galvanized halyard cable allowed it to store significant energy which it then used to propel a 50+ lb winch upward into the face of the deckhand operating it. The result was a broken jaw, several lost teeth, several other facial bones broken, a concussion and a (this is not a drill) man overboard exercise at sea. It caught our attention without any doubt. It also pointed out to us that even when you run regular, scheduled and thorough maintenance schedules, unexpected elements creep in. We eventually traced the errant electrical current to a corroded bonding strap on a sacrificial anode attached to a through-hull fitting. That missing anode allowed current from another boat in the marina to enter our hull through an unprotected conduit making the entire boat and rig into an active battery. We found considerably more electrolysis than normal during the immediately scheduled haul out. It was everywhere and had weakened a number of fastening points where stainless met aluminum. This is a long-winded way to say I'm a true believer and have great respect for making sure mechanical fastenings in an aluminum structure are properly done, regularly maintained and constantly inspected, particularly when it is my butt sitting in the aircraft at altitude. Regards, Jack _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hedrick Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 8:09 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: rivets working Hello Jack, After more reading on that list, I am thinking that maybe I should not use a stainless cherry blind rivet because of the dissimiliar metals corrosion problem that I could cause. My first thought was to drill them out and use the stainless. But even if I do that I still have a rivet that will 'smoke' because I don't think that the cherry blind will be as strong as the driven rivet and prob I still have the problem that caused the rivets to 'smoke'. ??? any thoughts ? Keith Hedrick 1991 Rv 6 _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Hilditch Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 9:04 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: rivets working Good morning, There's an excellent discussion on the engineering tips forum on rivets and replacement (albeit on much heavier airframes) but it is certainly worth a read. http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=15349 <http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=15349&page=6> &page=6 I would also guess that you could get a specific answer there as well. Regards, Jack Riviting my RV-9A Fuselage at the moment. _____ Checked by AVG. 9/29/2008 7:25 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2008
From: "J Riffel" <riffeljl(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: IMC - What If???
Just another 2 cents. My objectives were IFR, simple and reliable. Because I've gone thru a vacuum pump failure just as I was about to enter IMC, I wanted to avoid that again. So *NO VACUUM*! So here's what I chose for my RV7A: Com: GNS430, Icom A200; Backup: Icom handheld (w/ jack to external antenna) Nav: GNS430 (GPS, Nav); Backup: 396 (GPS), Icom handheld (nav) AI: Trutrack ADI Pilot II (battery backup if power fails) Backup: 396 (it's a little slow to respond - but it's quick enough for an emergency) Compass: ADI Pilot II Backup: Vert. Card compass, 396 Weather: 396 XM Weather Backup: none Heated Pitot Backup: none Engine monitor: GR Engine Analyzer Backup: Steam gauges for: Tach, Manifold Pressure & Left/Right Fuel Altimeter Backup: 396 (a little off - but insignificant in an emergency) Airspeed Backup: my butt Transponder Backup: none ELT Backup: both handheld and cell phone to call for help Cockpit lighting Backup: flashlights Nav/Strobe lights Backup: none AudioPanel (w/ intercom) Backup: none TOTAL Electrical failure: Icom handheld to communicate, 396 to navigate TOTAL Power failure: windshield to find something soft to hit TOTAL Structural failure: picture of my butt to kiss goodbye ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Bakerseal Or EZTurn?
What are the pros and cons of Bakerseal vs. EZTurn for installing all of the AN Blue fittings? I've got some of both and am about to do the fittings for the fuel filter and fuel pump. They definitely have different consistences - Bakerseal is kind of caulky and thick, and EZTurn is kind of smooth and sticky like tooth paste. Van's says, "either one". What's the common feeling on these products? I assume that you just gunk some nicely on the end of the fitting and then screw it tightly into the other part and wipe up the excess? What about the flared fittings? Do you put it on the inside of the flare too, or just the threads for the nut? Thanks for the help! Matt RV-8 #82880 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Vs" <dsvs(at)ca.rr.com>
Subject: Bakerseal Or EZTurn?
Date: Oct 01, 2008
I use bakerseal and only on pipe threads. If you get a leak from a flared fitting I would recomend the seals that AC Spruce sells. Don VS -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt Dralle Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:22 PM Subject: RV-List: Bakerseal Or EZTurn? What are the pros and cons of Bakerseal vs. EZTurn for installing all of the AN Blue fittings? I've got some of both and am about to do the fittings for the fuel filter and fuel pump. They definitely have different consistences - Bakerseal is kind of caulky and thick, and EZTurn is kind of smooth and sticky like tooth paste. Van's says, "either one". What's the common feeling on these products? I assume that you just gunk some nicely on the end of the fitting and then screw it tightly into the other part and wipe up the excess? What about the flared fittings? Do you put it on the inside of the flare too, or just the threads for the nut? Thanks for the help! Matt RV-8 #82880 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2008
From: Brian Alley <n320wt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Bakerseal Or EZTurn?
Matt. I use the same ProSeal used to assemble the RV fuel tanks on pipe fittings for hydraulics, fuel and oil. I use Ez-Turn on O-ring fuel pump fittings and the 37 degree flare and have had very few problems with leaks even on 1500 psi hydraulics in the Lancair IV. BRIAN ALLEY (N320WT) CARBON FIBER COMPOSITES 101 Caroline Circle Hurricane, WV 25526 www.carbonfibercomposites.net 304-562-6800 home 304-395-4932 cell How are you going to win by a nose if you don't stick out your neck? --- On Wed, 10/1/08, Matt Dralle wrote: > From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> > Subject: RV-List: Bakerseal Or EZTurn? > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 10:22 PM > > > > What are the pros and cons of Bakerseal vs. EZTurn for > installing all > of the AN Blue fittings? I've got some of both and am > about to do > the fittings for the fuel filter and fuel pump. They > definitely have > different consistences - Bakerseal is kind of caulky and > thick, and > EZTurn is kind of smooth and sticky like tooth paste. > Van's says, > "either one". What's the common feeling on > these products? > > I assume that you just gunk some nicely on the end of the > fitting and > then screw it tightly into the other part and wipe up the > excess? > > What about the flared fittings? Do you put it on the > inside of the > flare too, or just the threads for the nut? > > Thanks for the help! > > Matt > RV-8 #82880 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2008
From: Craig Gallenbach <craigtxtx(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV8A Weight and balance
I weighed my RV8A and was somewhat surprised at the results.- I have a Su perior O-360 normally aspirated engine, Sensenich fixed pitch propeller, an d forward mounted lightweight battery.- The empty weight worked out to 10 80 lb with a CG at 74.8" (as measured using a datum 70" forward of the lead ing edge).- With only the pilot (220 lb) on board, I need between 20 and 30 lb of ballast in the rear baggage compartment to be within the acceptabl e CG with maximum or minimum fuel respectively.- Is this typical for an 8 A?- With a fixed pitch propeller and lightweight battery I was expecting to be not quite so nose heavy.- Have others had similar results? - Thanks in advance for your help. - Craig Gallenbach RV8A, N184CG- ........ almost ready to fly ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV8A Weight and balance
Date: Oct 02, 2008
Similar results for my 8A (two Odyssey 625 batteries mounded 6"- 8" aft of the firewall and a Hartzell CS prop). I have a 10+ pound survival/tool kit on the rear baggage shelf that brings the CG inside the forward limit when solo. When solo however I tend to also put a case of oil in rear luggage compartment, unless of course I have other stuff to haul. The good news is I have had some real beefy boys in the back and the CG was still well within limits. At some point I may move one of the two batteries aft if I am taking the plane down for some other major modification. This is certainly not an operational problem. For all other 8A builders using a parallel valve (I)O-360, recommend you consider mounting your battery aft, or if you are a two battery ship one battery aft and perhaps the other in the forward baggage compartment well. Carl Froehlich RV-8A (450 hrs) RV-10 (fuselage) From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Gallenbach Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 6:56 PM Subject: RV-List: RV8A Weight and balance I weighed my RV8A and was somewhat surprised at the results. I have a Superior O-360 normally aspirated engine, Sensenich fixed pitch propeller, and forward mounted lightweight battery. The empty weight worked out to 1080 lb with a CG at 74.8" (as measured using a datum 70" forward of the leading edge). With only the pilot (220 lb) on board, I need between 20 and 30 lb of ballast in the rear baggage compartment to be within the acceptable CG with maximum or minimum fuel respectively. Is this typical for an 8A? With a fixed pitch propeller and lightweight battery I was expecting to be not quite so nose heavy. Have others had similar results? Thanks in advance for your help. Craig Gallenbach RV8A, N184CG ........ almost ready to fly D======================== ========= D======================== ========= D======================== ========= D======================== ========= ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2008
From: "Larry Bowen" <larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: Re: RV8A Weight and balance
Glad to hear you are getting close, Craig! -- Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 8:00 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote: > Similar results for my 8A (two Odyssey 625 batteries mounded 6"- 8" aft > of the firewall and a Hartzell CS prop). I have a 10+ pound survival/tool > kit on the rear baggage shelf that brings the CG inside the forward limit > when solo. When solo however I tend to also put a case of oil in rear > luggage compartment, unless of course I have other stuff to haul. > > > The good news is I have had some real beefy boys in the back and the CG was > still well within limits. At some point I may move one of the two batteries > aft if I am taking the plane down for some other major modification. This > is certainly not an operational problem. > > > For all other 8A builders using a parallel valve (I)O-360, recommend you > consider mounting your battery aft, or if you are a two battery ship one > battery aft and perhaps the other in the forward baggage compartment well. > > > Carl Froehlich > > RV-8A (450 hrs) > > RV-10 (fuselage) > > > *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Craig Gallenbach > *Sent:* Thursday, October 02, 2008 6:56 PM > *To:* RV list; SERV > *Subject:* RV-List: RV8A Weight and balance > > > I weighed my RV8A and was somewhat surprised at the results. I have a > Superior O-360 normally aspirated engine, Sensenich fixed pitch propeller, > and forward mounted lightweight battery. The empty weight worked out to > 1080 lb with a CG at 74.8" (as measured using a datum 70" forward of the > leading edge). With only the pilot (220 lb) on board, I need between 20 and > 30 lb of ballast in the rear baggage compartment to be within the acceptable > CG with maximum or minimum fuel respectively. Is this typical for an 8A? > With a fixed pitch propeller and lightweight battery I was expecting to be > not quite so nose heavy. Have others had similar results? > > > Thanks in advance for your help. > > > Craig Gallenbach > > RV8A, N184CG ........ almost ready to fly > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > * * > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: New Grove RV-8 Airfoiled Landing Gear Arrive...
I thought some might be interested in seeing exactly what the Grove Aluminum Airfoiled landing gear for the RV-8 look like. They are a work of art! Very beautiful indeed. Notice the predrilled holes for the brake lines. They're not cheap, but they are really very nice. The weight savings forward of the CG is certainly something to consider as well. Any any decrease in fiberglass work is worth the price of admission, in my book... ;-) Best regards, Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2008
From: "RALPH HOOVER" <hooverra(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Bakerseal Or EZTurn?
"What are the pros and cons of Bakerseal vs. EZTurn for installing all of the AN Blue fittings?" Matt, I have used both EZ-Turn and Fuel Lube on AN fittings. The fuel lines appear to be leak free, not true for the brake lines. I will now try Loctite 567 on the brake fittings. Report to follow!! Ralph & Laura Hoover RV7A N527LR Very very close!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2008
From: Craig Gallenbach <craigtxtx(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV8A Weight and balance
Thanks Carl.- I was hoping that my lighter prop and single battery would make my plane less nose heavy.- After looking at the table of other RV8A CGs, I'm going to recheck my wheel location measurements.- I'm pretty con fident of the weights. - Craig --- On Thu, 10/2/08, Carl Froehlich wrote: From: Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)cox.net> Subject: RE: RV-List: RV8A Weight and balance Date: Thursday, October 2, 2008, 7:00 PM Similar results for my 8A (two Odyssey 625 batteries mounded 6=94- 8=94 aft of the firewall and a Hartzell CS prop).- I have a 10+ pound survival/to ol kit on the rear baggage shelf that brings the CG inside the forward limi t when solo.- When solo however I tend to also put a case of oil in rear luggage compartment, unless of course I have other stuff to haul.- - The good news is I have had some real beefy boys in the back and the CG was still well within limits. -At some point I may move one of the two batte ries aft if I am taking the plane down for some other major modification. - This is certainly not an operational problem. - For all other 8A builders using a parallel valve (I)O-360, recommend you co nsider mounting your battery aft, or if you are a two battery ship one batt ery aft and perhaps the other in the forward baggage compartment well. - Carl Froehlich RV-8A (450 hrs) RV-10 (fuselage) - From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matro nics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Gallenbach Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 6:56 PM Subject: RV-List: RV8A Weight and balance - I weighed my RV8A and was somewhat surprised at the results.- I have a Su perior O-360 normally aspirated engine, Sensenich fixed pitch propeller, an d forward mounted lightweight battery.- The empty weight worked out to 10 80 lb with a CG at 74.8" (as measured using a datum 70" forward of the lead ing edge).- With only the pilot (220 lb) on board, I need between 20 and 30 lb of ballast in the rear baggage compartment to be within the acceptabl e CG with maximum or minimum fuel respectively.- Is this typical for an 8 A?- With a fixed pitch propeller and lightweight battery I was expecting to be not quite so nose heavy.- Have others had similar results? - Thanks in advance for your help. - Craig Gallenbach RV8A, N184CG- ........ almost ready to fly - -http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?RV-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/cont ribution - ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Smith" <gordonrsmith921(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV8A Weight and balance
Date: Oct 03, 2008
What is the builders experience regarding weight and balance for the RV-7A? And, therefore, what is the consensus for battery location? Gordon Smith ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-8
From: "Bubblehead" <jdalman2000(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 03, 2008
Deene - can you post a couple of pictures? -------- John Dalman Elburn, IL RV-8 N247TD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7261#207261 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2008
From: Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: rivets working
The RV has been around for some time now and over the years the basic desig n has been tweaked, finessed and improved-as data from the field eventual ly filtered back to the factory. -With thousands of examples built over a couple of decades, sometimes dramatic-improvements to the basic design h ave been made.- Also,-you have to take it as a given that some RV's are constructed by true craftsmen while most builders are less skilled but sti ll set the bar with an eye towards above average quality. Arguably, most RV 's are of average construction quality yet we know that at the lower end of the spectrum- lesser quality built RV's continue to be assembled by less skilled builders or builders builders possessed of the famous "build on" m entality. - It is one thing to describe smoking or working rivets occurring here or the re, but it is quite another for such rivets to be dispassionately examined by someone who really knows what to look for. Many theories have been poste d on this thread and rest assured my pet theory is no exception. By and lar ge, I believe smoking rivets are for the most part caused by improper rivet use or builder error or a combination of both. A common rivet gage relied upon and interpreted correctly by the builder would do more to prevent-sm oking rivets than any other single action. - Too often, I have observed the grip length call-out of many rivet patterns located on skins- seem to be marginal at best and tend towards being a bi t too short. I observed early on that often times shooting such rivets coul d cause the shop head to be almost swallowed by its dimpled hole already en larged by the dimpling process. If a builder under sets such rivets, the- builder is just asking for the under swelled rivets to work loose over time and the same thing goes if the rivet is slightly overshot. What little is left of an over shot-rivet shop head has precious little dimpled material to grip onto. To help prevent both scenarios, I routinely install slightly longer half-size rivets even though the plans may well call out a shorter length for a particular stack-up of materials. My 2000 vintage RV-6A plans -had even shorter -3 length rivet lengths occasionally called out yet I c ould never accept that. -I refused to install-AD3-3 length rivets anywhere period. - [URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/2489/fw f008editmt3.jpg[/IMG][/URL] - Using a-rivet gage supported my suspicions. Relying on it instead of my e yeballs, my experience has been it that is much more difficult to correctly set an almost too short AD3 rivet than it is to set one that is just sligh tly longer.- I routinely install slightly longer rivets even though the p lans may well call out shorter lengths for a particular stack-up of materia ls.-Example: The plans do not account for primer thickness. - One thing I learned on the shop floor at McDonnell-Douglas as I pounded awa y on F-4=A2s, F15=A2s, and F18=A2s was that blue-print fastener length call -outs are often in error and it is always up to the installer to verify the correct grip length is used in any given situation. Later on, I-discover ed that same familiar truth applies to RV construction practices as well. - Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" RV-8 N308R ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2008
From: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: RV8A Weight and balance
Go to Dan Checkoway's Weight and Balance Database http://www.rvproject.com/wab/ Lots of people have recorded their WaB there. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: Gordon Smith To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 7:34 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8A Weight and balance What is the builders experience regarding weight and balance for the RV-7A? And, therefore, what is the consensus for battery location? Gordon Smith __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3494 (20081003) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2008
From: Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RE: rivets working
I'll second Rick's opinion that Vans often (almost always on the 8A) calls out rivets that are 1/2 size to short in length. Charlie Kuss --- On Fri, 10/3/08, Rick Galati wrote: > From: Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> > Subject: RV-List: RE: rivets working > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Friday, October 3, 2008, 3:55 PM >snipped > > It is one thing to describe smoking or working rivets > occurring here or there, but it is quite another for such > rivets to be dispassionately examined by someone who really > knows what to look for. Many theories have been posted on > this thread and rest assured my pet theory is no exception. > By and large, I believe smoking rivets are for the most part > caused by improper rivet use or builder error or a > combination of both. A common rivet gage relied upon and > interpreted correctly by the builder would do more to > preventsmoking rivets than any other single action. > > Too often, I have observed the grip length call-out of many > rivet patterns located on skins seem to be marginal at > best and tend towards being a bit too short. I observed > early on that often times shooting such rivets could cause > the shop head to be almost swallowed by its dimpled hole > already enlarged by the dimpling process. If a builder under > sets such rivets, thebuilder is just asking for the under > swelled rivets to work loose over time and the same thing > goes if the rivet is slightly overshot. What little is left > of an over shotrivet shop head has precious little dimpled > material to grip onto. To help prevent both scenarios, I > routinely install slightly longer half-size rivets even > though the plans may well call out a shorter length for a > particular stack-up of materials. My 2000 vintage RV-6A > planshad even shorter -3 length rivet lengths occasionally > called out yet I could never accept that. I refused to > installAD3-3 length rivets > anywhere period. > > [URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/2489/fwf008editmt3.jpg[/IMG][/URL] > > Using arivet gage supported my suspicions. Relying on it > instead of my eyeballs, my experience has been it that is > much more difficult to correctly set an almost too short AD3 > rivet than it is to set one that is just slightly longer. > I routinely install slightly longer rivets even though the > plans may well call out shorter lengths for a particular > stack-up of materials.Example: The plans do not account > for primer thickness. > > One thing I learned on the shop floor at McDonnell-Douglas > as I pounded away on F-4s, F15s, and F18s was that > blue-print fastener length call-outs are often in error and > it is always up to the installer to verify the correct grip > length is used in any given situation. Later on, > Idiscovered that same familiar truth applies to RV > construction practices as well. > > Rick Galati > RV-6A "Darla" > RV-8 N308R ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "e.ap" <e.ap(at)beyondbb.com>
Subject: RV-9A
Date: Oct 03, 2008
For Sale: (1) Empennage Kit, including Preview Plans and Electric Trim- HS ready for final assembly. (2) Avery Tool 650pc. RV Builder's Kit- many items never used. (3) 10 19oz. cans of MAR-HYDE Self Etching Primer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "e.ap" <e.ap(at)beyondbb.com>
Subject: RV-9A
Date: Oct 03, 2008
For Sale: (1) 9A Empennage Kit, including Preview Plans and Electric Trim- HS ready for final assembly. (2) Avery 650 pc. RV Builder's Kit- many items never used. (3) 10 19oz. cans of MAR-HYDE Self Etching Primer ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: rivets working
Date: Oct 03, 2008
From: "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Rick, your closing statement is Dead On. It is always up to the manufacturer/builder (not a computer CAD person) to determine the correct rivet length. Once builders get proficient, if they desire to do it right, the eye ball method of "rivet tail" to be bucked for the diameter used will work quite well. One task which brings that home is a double countersink rivet installation. On the manufactured head, the depth of countersink comes into play but on the working end of the other side, you must be dead on for length "beyond the group or the opposing countersink will be Forever Shy or Proud. Not all double countersinks can be shaved. In EAA projects, the quality and standard is set by the Builder, not the plans creator. John Cox EAA Tech Advisor From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Galati Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 12:56 PM Subject: RV-List: RE: rivets working The RV has been around for some time now and over the years the basic design has been tweaked, finessed and improved as data from the field eventually filtered back to the factory. With thousands of examples built over a couple of decades, sometimes dramatic improvements to the basic design have been made. Also, you have to take it as a given that some RV's are constructed by true craftsmen while most builders are less skilled but still set the bar with an eye towards above average quality. Arguably, most RV's are of average construction quality yet we know that at the lower end of the spectrum lesser quality built RV's continue to be assembled by less skilled builders or builders builders possessed of the famous "build on" mentality. It is one thing to describe smoking or working rivets occurring here or there, but it is quite another for such rivets to be dispassionately examined by someone who really knows what to look for. Many theories have been posted on this thread and rest assured my pet theory is no exception. By and large, I believe smoking rivets are for the most part caused by improper rivet use or builder error or a combination of both. A common rivet gage relied upon and interpreted correctly by the builder would do more to prevent smoking rivets than any other single action. Too often, I have observed the grip length call-out of many rivet patterns located on skins seem to be marginal at best and tend towards being a bit too short. I observed early on that often times shooting such rivets could cause the shop head to be almost swallowed by its dimpled hole already enlarged by the dimpling process. If a builder under sets such rivets, the builder is just asking for the under swelled rivets to work loose over time and the same thing goes if the rivet is slightly overshot. What little is left of an over shot rivet shop head has precious little dimpled material to grip onto. To help prevent both scenarios, I routinely install slightly longer half-size rivets even though the plans may well call out a shorter length for a particular stack-up of materials. My 2000 vintage RV-6A plans had even shorter -3 length rivet lengths occasionally called out yet I could never accept that. I refused to install AD3-3 length rivets anywhere period. [URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/2489/ fwf008editmt3.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Using a rivet gage supported my suspicions. Relying on it instead of my eyeballs, my experience has been it that is much more difficult to correctly set an almost too short AD3 rivet than it is to set one that is just slightly longer. I routinely install slightly longer rivets even though the plans may well call out shorter lengths for a particular stack-up of materials. Example: The plans do not account for primer thickness. One thing I learned on the shop floor at McDonnell-Douglas as I pounded away on F-4=A2s, F15=A2s, and F18=A2s was that blue-print fastener length call-outs are often in error and it is always up to the installer to verify the correct grip length is used in any given situation. Later on, I discovered that same familiar truth applies to RV construction practices as well. Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" RV-8 N308R ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2008
From: Harrell Staton <pj260(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Need a prop
Folks - This is probably a little off topic, but I am in need of a Sensenich M74DM-60 or 61 prop for my Tri-Pacer. In the course of the current annual, my IA has determined that I have the wrong prop on my airplane for the STC that placed the O-320 40 years ago. I have an M76-57, so, according to the STC, my airplane is no longer airworthy until I have the correct prop. I will consider any condition (as long as it is airworthy), and, if you're within one day's driving distance of Jacksonville, FL, I can come get it. In order to conserve bandwidth on the mailing list, you can contact me off-list at pj260(at)bellsouth.net or 904-223-9627. Thanks! Sam Staton ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2008
From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RE: rivets working
John Cox wrote: snip > > Not all double countersinks can be shaved. Oh, so true! > > In EAA projects, the quality and standard is set by the Builder, not the > plans creator. Again, oh so true! But how many 'double countersinks' do you see on GA production aircraft??? Some folks seem the set them as the standard. I've seen production stuff that would make you cringe. I'm no rivet expert ..... but I don't think if you pounded 20% 'bad' rivets and left them there that you'd have a problem .... unless you mashed them all in one area .... not a statistical feat in my opinion. Linn > > > John Cox > > EAA Tech Advisor > > *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Galati > *Sent:* Friday, October 03, 2008 12:56 PM > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV-List: RE: rivets working > > > > The RV has been around for some time now and over the years the basic > design has been tweaked, finessed and improved as data from the field > eventually filtered back to the factory. With thousands of examples > built over a couple of decades, sometimes dramatic improvements to the > basic design have been made. Also, you have to take it as a given that > some RV's are constructed by true craftsmen while most builders are less > skilled but still set the bar with an eye towards above average quality. > Arguably, most RV's are of average construction quality yet we know that > at the lower end of the spectrum lesser quality built RV's continue to > be assembled by less skilled builders or builders builders possessed of > the famous "build on" mentality. > > > > It is one thing to describe smoking or working rivets occurring here or > there, but it is quite another for such rivets to be dispassionately > examined by someone who really knows what to look for. Many theories > have been posted on this thread and rest assured my pet theory is no > exception. By and large, I believe smoking rivets are for the most part > caused by improper rivet use or builder error or a combination of both. > A common rivet gage relied upon and interpreted correctly by the builder > would do more to prevent smoking rivets than any other single action. > > > > Too often, I have observed the grip length call-out of many rivet > patterns located on skins seem to be marginal at best and tend towards > being a bit too short. I observed early on that often times shooting > such rivets could cause the shop head to be almost swallowed by its > dimpled hole already enlarged by the dimpling process. If a builder > _under_ sets such rivets, the builder is just asking for the under > swelled rivets to work loose over time and the same thing goes if the > rivet is slightly overshot. What little is left of an _over_ shot rivet > shop head has precious little dimpled material to grip onto. To help > prevent both scenarios, I routinely install slightly longer half-size > rivets even though the plans may well call out a shorter length for a > particular stack-up of materials. My 2000 vintage RV-6A plans had even > _shorter_ -3 length rivet lengths occasionally called out yet I could > never accept that. I refused to install AD3-3 length rivets anywhere > period. > > > > [URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/2489/fwf008editmt3.jpg[/IMG][/URL] > > > > Using a rivet gage supported my suspicions. Relying on it instead of my > eyeballs, my experience has been it that is much more difficult to > correctly set an almost too short AD3 rivet than it is to set one that > is just slightly longer. I routinely install slightly longer rivets > even though the plans may well call out shorter lengths for a particular > stack-up of materials. Example: The plans do not account for primer > thickness. > > > > One thing I learned on the shop floor at McDonnell-Douglas as I pounded > away on F-4s, F15s, and F18s was that blue-print fastener length > call-outs are often in error and it is always up to the installer to > verify the correct grip length is used in any given situation. Later on, > I discovered that same familiar truth applies to RV construction > practices as well. > > > > Rick Galati > > RV-6A "Darla" > > RV-8 N308R > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > > ** > > ** > > http://forums.matronics.com > > ** > > ** > > ** > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ** > > * * > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "e.ap" <e.ap(at)beyondbb.com>
Subject: Re: RV-9A
Date: Oct 04, 2008
Matt, I sent the attached message yesterday..how do I know if the system has it? Can not find it anywhere.. Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: e.ap To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 3:48 PM Subject: RV-9A For Sale: (1) Empennage Kit, including Preview Plans and Electric Trim- HS ready for final assembly. (2) Avery Tool 650pc. RV Builder's Kit- many items never used. (3) 10 19oz. cans of MAR-HYDE Self Etching Primer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: RV-9A
At 09:12 AM 10/4/2008 Saturday, you wrote: >Matt, I sent the attached message yesterday..how do I know if the system has it? Can not find it anywhere.. Ernie >----- Original Message ----- >From: <mailto:e.ap(at)beyondbb.com>e.ap >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 3:48 PM >Subject: RV-9A > >For Sale: (1) Empennage Kit, including Preview Plans and Electric Trim- HS ready for final assembly. (2) Avery Tool 650pc. RV Builder's Kit- many items never used. (3) 10 19oz. cans of MAR-HYDE Self Etching Primer. > You can check the Matronics Forums: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=49204 Looks like it made it to the List fine. Matt ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2008
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Tools
I am posting this for a friend that has built an RV-6 and a Harmon Rocket. He is no longer on the RV-List so contact him by email. Jerry "I have a crap load of clecos and riveting stuff I'll let go for half price if you know of anyone starting a kit. 725 of the 3/32 and 225 of the 1/8 plus some others. Also have two rivet guns, a double cut, air drill and air pop rivet tool." Contact Jim Anglin @ jlanglin44(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rquinn1(at)AOL.COM
Date: Oct 04, 2008
Subject: Re: RV-9A
Where is this located? **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2008
From: Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Bakerseal Or EZTurn?
Bakerseal is very messy from what I recall. I had a tiny tin of ez turn and have had it for 10 years now and its still not gone..great stuff and goes a long, long way. Paul Besing RV-4 N73DD "Sunny" Arizona ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 1, 2008 7:22:28 PM Subject: RV-List: Bakerseal Or EZTurn? What are the pros and cons of Bakerseal vs. EZTurn for installing all of the AN Blue fittings? I've got some of both and am about to do the fittings for the fuel filter and fuel pump. They definitely have different consistences - Bakerseal is kind of caulky and thick, and EZTurn is kind of smooth and sticky like tooth paste. Van's says, "either one". What's the common feeling on these products? I assume that you just gunk some nicely on the end of the fitting and then screw it tightly into the other part and wipe up the excess? What about the flared fittings? Do you put it on the inside of the flare too, or just the threads for the nut? Thanks for the help! Matt RV-8 #82880 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net>
Subject: WTB: RV-8 rudder
Date: Oct 04, 2008
I have the new style (RV-9) rudder on my RV-7 that has developed cracks after 220 hours. As a result, I plan to replace the rudder with the early style RV-7 rudder (same as the RV-8 I believe). Please advise if you have an RV-8 rudder for sale.prefer un-built, but will consider completed rudder of excellent workmanship. Best regards, Bill Gill RV-7 N151WP ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil leak
From: "bluesidedown" <mbick(at)carolina.rr.com>
Date: Oct 05, 2008
I agree everything has its down side. Just like running the breather tube through a oil separator then all the way back through the plane creating restriction. I don't agree that positive crankcase pressure won't help the overall performance if done right and in lieu of a restricted system. The help with the VW system may not be as much considering the volume of the crankcase as compared to the piston size or the tighter tolerances; I can't really say, I wasn't there. But when we used to run buggys down at Flat River we all had breathers run into the exhaust otherwise you would have oil all over and I won't go into all the other positives since that was 20 years ago and I haven't built a VW engine since. So my knowledge of specifics are limited. I will tell you that you could not run as high of compression and rpm as we were without one. On an auto a simple test of the PVC was to pinch the line and there was usually a 50 rpm drop. Now it is a little different but the concept is the same. Another thing to consider is that the oil will be less contaminated and water vapor is being positively expelled. There are a few kits to do so and the Moroso kit has a check valve for those worried about a backfire. http://www.streetperformance.com/part/moroso/positive-crankcase-ventilation/391844-25900.html Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7413#207413 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JFLEISC(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 05, 2008
Subject: Re: Oil leak
In a message dated 10/5/2008 8:53:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mbick(at)carolina.rr.com writes: I don't agree that positive crankcase pressure won't help the overall performance if done right and in lieu of a restricted system. Show me "unaltered" dynamometer numbers, then I'll believe. Otherwise; fantasy. Jim **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2008
From: bert murillo <robertrv607(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RE: rivets working
Just follow the techincal manuals, used in Aircraft Mfg. if I recall the lenght of- the portion of the rivet shown, after the pieces are held toge ther, should be 1-1/2 the diameter of the rivet... - Almost any book shows- how to figure this out etc... even Aircraft Spruce if I recall has at the end of the book, tables for all this, and more,.. - bert - rv6a --- On Fri, 10/3/08, Charles Kuss wrote: From: Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: rivets working Date: Friday, October 3, 2008, 5:33 PM I'll second Rick's opinion that Vans often (almost always on the 8A) calls out rivets that are 1/2 size to short in length. Charlie Kuss --- On Fri, 10/3/08, Rick Galati wrote: > From: Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> > Subject: RV-List: RE: rivets working > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Friday, October 3, 2008, 3:55 PM >snipped > - > It is one thing to describe smoking or working rivets > occurring here or there, but it is quite another for such > rivets to be dispassionately examined by someone who really > knows what to look for. Many theories have been posted on > this thread and rest assured my pet theory is no exception. > By and large, I believe smoking rivets are for the most part > caused by improper rivet use or builder error or a > combination of both. A common rivet gage relied upon and > interpreted correctly by the builder would do more to > prevent-smoking rivets than any other single action. > - > Too often, I have observed the grip length call-out of many > rivet patterns located on skins- seem to be marginal at > best and tend towards being a bit too short. I observed > early on that often times shooting such rivets could cause > the shop head to be almost swallowed by its dimpled hole > already enlarged by the dimpling process. If a builder under > sets such rivets, the-builder is just asking for the under > swelled rivets to work loose over time and the same thing > goes if the rivet is slightly overshot. What little is left > of an over shot-rivet shop head has precious little dimpled > material to grip onto. To help prevent both scenarios, I > routinely install slightly longer half-size rivets even > though the plans may well call out a shorter length for a > particular stack-up of materials. My 2000 vintage RV-6A > plans-had even shorter -3 length rivet lengths occasionally > called out yet I could never accept that. -I refused to > install-AD3-3 length rivets > anywhere period. > - > [URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/2489/fw f008editmt3.jpg[/IMG][/URL] > - > Using a-rivet gage supported my suspicions. Relying on it > instead of my eyeballs, my experience has been it that is > much more difficult to correctly set an almost too short AD3 > rivet than it is to set one that is just slightly longer.- > I routinely install slightly longer rivets even though the > plans may well call out shorter lengths for a particular > stack-up of materials.-Example: The plans do not account > for primer thickness. > - > One thing I learned on the shop floor at McDonnell-Douglas > as I pounded away on F-4=A2s, F15=A2s, and F18=A2s was that > blue-print fastener length call-outs are often in error and > it is always up to the installer to verify the correct grip > length is used in any given situation. Later on, > I-discovered that same familiar truth applies to RV > construction practices as well. > - > Rick Galati > RV-6A "Darla" > RV-8 N308R =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John L. Danielson" <jdaniel343(at)bresnan.net>
Subject: Radio for sale
Date: Oct 05, 2008
I have for sale a Microair Avionics Pty. Ltd Model #760 VHF AM Transceiver. I do not have the wiring harness for this unit. One can easily be made up >From parts that are available at Radio Shack. The manual and wiring diagram can be found at Microair's web site. http://www.microair.com.au/index.aspx?page=186 <http://www.microair.com.au/index.aspx?page=186&productID=25> &productID=25 I am asking $550 for this radio. I purchased it used 2 years ago and never used the unit. It is used but in great condition. If you have any questions please e-mail Jdaniel343(at)bresnan.net. I will be putting this on E-bay within 3 days if no one responds. Shipping will be $15.00. Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John L. Danielson" <jdaniel343(at)bresnan.net>
Subject: Radio for sale
Date: Oct 05, 2008
Radio has been sold. Thanks -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John L. Danielson Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 12:56 PM Subject: RV-List: Radio for sale I have for sale a Microair Avionics Pty. Ltd Model #760 VHF AM Transceiver. I do not have the wiring harness for this unit. One can easily be made up >From parts that are available at Radio Shack. The manual and wiring diagram can be found at Microair's web site. http://www.microair.com.au/index.aspx?page=186 <http://www.microair.com.au/index.aspx?page=186&productID=25> &productID=25 I am asking $550 for this radio. I purchased it used 2 years ago and never used the unit. It is used but in great condition. If you have any questions please e-mail Jdaniel343(at)bresnan.net. I will be putting this on E-bay within 3 days if no one responds. Shipping will be $15.00. Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2008
Subject: RV : [ Terry McMillan ] : New Email List PhotoShare Available!
From: Email List PhotoShares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
(Listers - Sorry for the delay in processing this Photoshare; all of the incoming Photoshares where getting caught by my email client's spam filter. I wondered why nobody had posted a Photoshare in a long while... I've fixed the filter and Photoshares should be processed in a normal period of time now. -Matt) A new Email List PhotoShare is available: Poster: Terry McMillan Lists: AeroElectric-list,RV-List,RV7-List,RV8-List,RV10-List,RV9-List Subject: Dual Battery System http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/terryml5c2p6@sympatico.ca.10.06.2008 ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main PhotoShare Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a PhotoShare If you wish to submit a PhotoShare of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Knicholas2(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 06, 2008
Subject: If I re-pitch the prop.....
I am considering re-pitching the prop on my RV9. If I do, this changes the "approved engine-prop" combination approved by the FAA when the plane was certified. Do I now have to fly off 40 hours of test time with this new engine - prop combination? Kim Nicholas RV9A Auburn, WA **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2008
Subject: RV : [ Harry DeLoach ] : New Email List PhotoShare Available!
From: Email List PhotoShares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
(Listers - Sorry for the delay in processing this Photoshare; all of the incoming Photoshares where getting caught by my email client's spam filter. I wondered why nobody had posted a Photoshare in a long while... I've fixed the filter and Photoshares should be processed in a normal period of time now. -Matt) A new Email List PhotoShare is available: Poster: Harry DeLoach Lists: RV-List,RV10-List Subject: Leaving Pensacola with a load of Schrimp... http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/harry.deloach@navy.mil.10.06.2008 ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main PhotoShare Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a PhotoShare If you wish to submit a PhotoShare of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2008
Subject: RV : [ Donald Meehan ] : New Email List PhotoShare Available!
From: Email List PhotoShares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
(Listers - Sorry for the delay in processing this Photoshare; all of the incoming Photoshares where getting caught by my email client's spam filter. I wondered why nobody had posted a Photoshare in a long while... I've fixed the filter and Photoshares should be processed in a normal period of time now. -Matt) A new Email List PhotoShare is available: Poster: Donald Meehan Lists: RV-List,RV6-List Subject: RV6A step failure - both sides http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/meehan@wsu.edu.10.06.2008 ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main PhotoShare Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a PhotoShare If you wish to submit a PhotoShare of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: If I re-pitch the prop.....
Date: Oct 06, 2008
Your Operation Limitations will specify what to do. If they have the more recent wording, it will require going back into Phase 1 for 5 or so hours after a major alteration. Some very old ones required a reinspection by the Feds and they specified the test time. You have to go my the wording of your own Ops Limitations. If too onerous I suppose you could try to get them changed. I haven't heard of an Amateur Built doing that but the Exhibition types have done it. Regards, Greg Young _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Knicholas2(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 2:49 PM Subject: RV-List: If I re-pitch the prop..... I am considering re-pitching the prop on my RV9. If I do, this changes the "approved engine-prop" combination approved by the FAA when the plane was certified. Do I now have to fly off 40 hours of test time with this new engine - prop combination? Kim Nicholas RV9A Auburn, WA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2008
From: Brian Alley <n320wt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: If I re-pitch the prop.....
Kim, It depends on your operating limitations. Experimental aircraft licensed after about 1997 had Different wording. You will probably Be able to place it back in phase two, fly off 5 hours and sign it off, but check the operating limitations to be sure. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 6, 2008, at 3:49 PM, Knicholas2(at)aol.com wrote: I am considering re-pitching the prop on my RV9. If I do, this changes the "approved engine-prop" combination approved by the FAA when the plane was certified. Do I now have to fly off 40 hours of test time with this new engine - prop combination? Kim Nicholas RV9A Auburn, WA New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JFLEISC(at)AOL.COM
Date: Oct 06, 2008
Subject: Re: If I re-pitch the prop.....
In a message dated 10/6/2008 3:51:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Knicholas2(at)aol.com writes: I am considering re-pitching the prop on my RV9. If I do, this changes the "approved engine-prop" combination approved by the FAA when the plane was certified. Do I now have to fly off 40 hours of test time with this new engine - prop combination? Holy smokes man! An RV isn't certified! Its just an alteration at most with a log book notation. **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Humphrey" <mike109g6(at)insideconnect.net>
Subject: Re: If I re-pitch the prop.....
Date: Oct 06, 2008
Kim, Experimental aircraft are NOT certified. If you repitch your prop to be compliant with your airworthiness certificate, I believe all you have to do is enter the change in your log book, and do a 5 hr 'flyoff'. Check with your local EAA Tech Adviser to be sure. Mike H 9A/8A ----- Original Message ----- From: Knicholas2(at)aol.com To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 3:49 PM Subject: RV-List: If I re-pitch the prop..... I am considering re-pitching the prop on my RV9. If I do, this changes the "approved engine-prop" combination approved by the FAA when the plane was certified. Do I now have to fly off 40 hours of test time with this new engine - prop combination? Kim Nicholas RV9A Auburn, WA ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Knicholas2(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 06, 2008
Subject: Re: If I re-pitch the prop.....
I remember when I got my plane's airworthy certificate, if the engine-prop combination was one that was recognized within certain perameters I only had to fly off 20 hours. Others I know with different combinations that had to fly off 40 hours. If I were to switch to a non- "certified" engine I would have to "start over" and fly off the 40 hours as if I just started. I am just curious if changing the prop put me in the same situation. Kim Nicholas In a message dated 10/6/2008 4:09:39 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, JFLEISC(at)aol.com writes: In a message dated 10/6/2008 3:51:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Knicholas2(at)aol.com writes: I am considering re-pitching the prop on my RV9. If I do, this changes the "approved engine-prop" combination approved by the FAA when the plane was certified. Do I now have to fly off 40 hours of test time with this new engine - prop combination? Holy smokes man! An RV isn't certified! Its just an alteration at most with a log book notation. ____________________________________ New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. _Try it out_ (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) ! (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2008
From: "David Schaefer" <n142ds(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Protect me from ugly - Zaon XRX - Part Deux
I've been working on solving the 'ugly' issue with my new XRX! I found some RAM mount components on the web and have run it off the baggage compartment bulk-head with an atriculated mount. It looks to me like it will work and has a pretty good view of the sky. For those of you who asked, I've updated the web-site with a few of the 1st pass photos. www.n142ds.com/Whats_New.html I hopefully will compete the wiring into the GRT EFIS units this week and update with additional pictures. Let me know what you think. Thanks.... -- David W. Schaefer RV-6A N142DS "Nerdgasm" TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS www.n142ds.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2008
From: Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: If I re-pitch the prop.....
Kim, Call the duty officer at the FSDO and ask him if he thinks a repitch is a major mod. My guess is that he'll say yes. He might not, though, especially if you can show him evidence that others are flying with your proposed pitch. It's worth a try. If you've got recent oplims, it probably says that, when you make a major modification, you must notify the FSDO and get their concurrence with your test flight area and fly off 5 hours - then make a logbook entry to that effect. The aircraft can then be returned to phase 2. The FSDO will want their notification in writing. Just write them a letter describing what you are doing and take two copies of it with you to your appointment with the inspector at his office. Describe your test flight area in detail. If you intend to use the same test area as your original phase 1, and why not, you should still describe it in detail in your letter. You have to call for an appointment. They won't open the door if you haven't called ahead. If you have early oplims, you can get an update to the current set. I did it and I'm not even the original builder. They wanted me to prove that I was still in compliance with the requirements for passenger warning placard and experimental signage. I humored them with a couple of pictures. They made me jump through some hoops and shit, but they had to give them up in the end. The fun really began when they told me that I couldn't fly an experimental at my home airport (and 3 others in their area). I told them they were way off base and called in the EAA who explained to them that they were way off base and, after a week or so of dragging their feet, they caved. Pax, Ed Holyoke Knicholas2(at)aol.com wrote: > I remember when I got my plane's airworthy certificate, if the > engine-prop combination was one that was recognized within certain > perameters I only had to fly off 20 hours. Others I know with > different combinations that had to fly off 40 hours. If I were to > switch to a non- "certified" engine I would have to "start over" and > fly off the 40 hours as if I just started. I am just curious if > changing the prop put me in the same situation. > > Kim Nicholas > > In a message dated 10/6/2008 4:09:39 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > JFLEISC(at)aol.com writes: > > In a message dated 10/6/2008 3:51:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > Knicholas2(at)aol.com writes: > > I am considering re-pitching the prop on my RV9. If I do, > this changes the "approved engine-prop" combination approved > by the FAA when the plane was certified. Do I now have to fly > off 40 hours of test time with this new engine - prop combination? > > Holy smokes man! An RV isn't certified! Its just an alteration at > most with a log book notation. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > New *MapQuest Local* shows what's happening at your destination. > Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out > <http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001>! > > * > > ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > .matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com > ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > New *MapQuest Local* shows what's happening at your destination. > Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out > <http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001>! > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: If I re-pitch the prop.....
Date: Oct 07, 2008
Yes, it is no more difficult getting your operational limitation changed than filling out the paper work. I had my older operating limitations modified to accommodate the 5 hour major modification change. Previously, I had to get an inspection after each major mod (which with an alternative engine involved a few), so I got with the local FDSO and had the paperwork amended - which did require one more inspection. But, since then I re-enter Phase 1, fly off the 5 hours in test mode, record any changes to basic flight parameters of the aircraft and certify in the log book that it's safe to return to regular operation. IF you do not have this written into your operational limitations (or have an FAA/DAR inspection) and have an accident after making a "Major Mod" you insurance company will likely deny any claim - as you have failed to comply with FAA regulations, etc. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com <http://www.andersonee.com/> http://www.andersonee.com <http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Young Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 4:29 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: If I re-pitch the prop..... Your Operation Limitations will specify what to do. If they have the more recent wording, it will require going back into Phase 1 for 5 or so hours after a major alteration. Some very old ones required a reinspection by the Feds and they specified the test time. You have to go my the wording of your own Ops Limitations. If too onerous I suppose you could try to get them changed. I haven't heard of an Amateur Built doing that but the Exhibition types have done it. Regards, Greg Young _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Knicholas2(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 2:49 PM Subject: RV-List: If I re-pitch the prop..... I am considering re-pitching the prop on my RV9. If I do, this changes the "approved engine-prop" combination approved by the FAA when the plane was certified. Do I now have to fly off 40 hours of test time with this new engine - prop combination? Kim Nicholas RV9A Auburn, WA __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject: Repiching prop
Date: Oct 07, 2008
If it was me, I would do whatever I wanted re prop and just pput it in the prop log and forget it. Charles Heathco ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Repiching prop
Date: Oct 07, 2008
On 7-Oct-08, at 07:26 , Charles Heathco wrote: > If it was me, I would do whatever I wanted re prop and just pput it > in the prop log and forget it. Charles Heathco I assume you are not carrying any insurance. If you don't comply with your operating limitations, your Airworthiness Certificate may not be valid, and your insurance company could easily use that as an excuse to not pay insurance, even if the accident had nothing at all to do with the prop. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (Flight Test Phase) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wheeler North" <wnorth(at)sdccd.edu>
Subject: Prop repitch
Date: Oct 08, 2008
The one thing I never heard was why was the repitching a major mod? Are the pitch specs specific to that engine/prop combo in a specific airframe? Does the repitching exceed the prop manufacturer's limits? (aka bad idea) If not is there another airframe with that same engine/prop combo that allows this new pitch? If so I don't see it as a major mod. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Charles Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com>
Subject: Strobe Switch Problem
Date: Oct 09, 2008
Charlie, Thanks for the info, but I've sworn off the Carling switches. All the recently reported strobe system switch failures have been the Carling 700 series. Honeywell has a series of toggle switches recommended by Bob Nuckolls in the AeroElectric Connection forum. I installed a SPST Honeywell toggle switch (part #11TS95-2) from DigiKey to control my strobe system. It is the same size and appearance as the Carling 700 series. A bit more expensive, but more robust. So far, no problems. Check out: http://sensing.honeywell.com/index.cfm? ci_id=140301&pr_id=124570&productList=124570 Charlie Brame RV-6A N11CB San Antonio ---------------------------------------------------- From: Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Strobe switch problem Charlie, I obtained my Carling Technologies 15 amp rated switches from Waytek Wire. They had the best pricing. See http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail/M37/44266 http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail/M37/44251 http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail/M37/44253 http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail/M37/44259 On items such as my Piper style pitot tube (heated), I used a DPST switch, as the pitot has two heating elements. In this fashion, each element has it's own pair of contacts, and amperage through each set of contacts is halved (compared to using a SPST switch) Charlie Kuss ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 10, 2008
Subject: Exhaust nuts tork
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
I have a Vetterman exhaust system and I need to re-tork the nuts on the flange to head nut. What is the recomended tork for those nuts. Jim RV9-A ____________________________________________________________ Click here for free information on nursing degrees, up to $150/hour http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nEnlbQel9dJ1Y1lBnnbDOJ4lzz9zb62sBpgrVhpIr0BFKzx/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Exhaust nuts tork
From: "Rick Galati" <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 11, 2008
rv9jim(at)juno.com wrote: > I have a Vetterman exhaust system and I need to re-tork the nuts on the > flange to head nut. What is the recomended tork for those nuts. > Jim RV9-A Jim, It is always best to contact the manufacturer with such questions and in this case, it would be Larry Vetterman. However, to avoid opinion du jour, I suggest you try using the "full archive search" function and simply type in "exhaust nut torque." You will likely find the information you seek amid the various postings that surface. As always, it continues to remain the builder's responsibility to separate fact from fertilizer. [Wink] Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla!" RV-8 N308R Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8274#208274 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Exhaust nuts tork
Date: Oct 11, 2008
Jim, My instructions from Vetterman specify torque at 100 to 140 in-lbs. and to check this annually! Marty RV-6A finishing. I have a Vetterman exhaust system and I need to re-tork the nuts on the flange to head nut. What is the recomended tork for those nuts. Jim RV9-A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "H. Ivan Haecker" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com>
Subject: Re: Synthetic grease
Date: Oct 12, 2008
Is their anyone on the list who lives in Northwest Arkansas? I am planning a trip there in a few weeks and wanted to speak with someone concerning airports in the local area. Please reply off list. Thanks! Ivan Haecker -4 1506hrs. S. Cen. TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill VonDane" <bill.mail(at)vondane.com>
Subject: New email address...
Date: Oct 12, 2008
Hey.....the email you just sent to me (at bill.mail(at)vondane.com) has not been delivered... Due to the unbelievable amount of junk/spam mail I have been getting I have had to change my email address... Please click on the email link below to get my new email address and send me a message... Thanks! -Bill http://www.vondane.com/contact/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill VonDane" <bill.mail(at)vondane.com>
Subject: New email address...
Date: Oct 12, 2008
Hey.....the email you just sent to me (at bill.mail(at)vondane.com) has not been delivered... Due to the unbelievable amount of junk/spam mail I have been getting I have had to change my email address... Please click on the email link below to get my new email address and send me a message... Thanks! -Bill http://www.vondane.com/contact/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: Brake Pad replacement
Date: Oct 12, 2008
My RV-6 is in need of new brake pads after 120 hours. This seems a bit pre-mature but it needs them none the less. I just looked on Vans site and they show brake lining kit with rivets. Does this require a special rivet device? At 30 bucks I can't surmise it would be very cheap to buy the pads with the backing already on. Questions: Is 120 hours sooner than normal for needing brake pads? What do I use to rivet on the linings? Is there a reasonable availability somewhere for complete brake pads? Thanks Tim Bryan RV-6 Flying N616TB over 100 hours now ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Dudley" <rhdudley1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Brake Pad replacement
Date: Oct 12, 2008
Hi Tim, I decided to replace my pads around the 120 hour point. Could have gotten a few more miles but at annual time it seemed most convenient. Getting everything apart for bearing maintenance is the most time consuming. Replacing the pads is easy and quick. The kits from Van's contain the rivets. The tool is inexpensive from Spruce. See: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/brakeliningrivset.php Rich Dudley 6A flying and for sale ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Bryan To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 4:07 PM Subject: RV-List: Brake Pad replacement My RV-6 is in need of new brake pads after 120 hours. This seems a bit pre-mature but it needs them none the less. I just looked on Vans site and they show brake lining kit with rivets. Does this require a special rivet device? At 30 bucks I can't surmise it would be very cheap to buy the pads with the backing already on. Questions: Is 120 hours sooner than normal for needing brake pads? What do I use to rivet on the linings? Is there a reasonable availability somewhere for complete brake pads? Thanks Tim Bryan RV-6 Flying N616TB over 100 hours now ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: Brake Pad replacement
Date: Oct 12, 2008
Hi John, Thanks for the info and link. I was actually just turning my tires around so they would wear on the other side, so packing bearings and such. The brakes are easy, but didn't plan that so now need to wait to get parts and tools. Thanks again. Tim Bryan RV-6 Flying N616TB over 100 hours now From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Dudley Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 3:29 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Brake Pad replacement Hi Tim, I decided to replace my pads around the 120 hour point. Could have gotten a few more miles but at annual time it seemed most convenient. Getting everything apart for bearing maintenance is the most time consuming. Replacing the pads is easy and quick. The kits from Van's contain the rivets. The tool is inexpensive from Spruce. See: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/brakeliningrivset.php Rich Dudley 6A flying and for sale ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Bryan <mailto:n616tb(at)btsapps.com> Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 4:07 PM Subject: RV-List: Brake Pad replacement My RV-6 is in need of new brake pads after 120 hours. This seems a bit pre-mature but it needs them none the less. I just looked on Vans site and they show brake lining kit with rivets. Does this require a special rivet device? At 30 bucks I can't surmise it would be very cheap to buy the pads with the backing already on. Questions: Is 120 hours sooner than normal for needing brake pads? What do I use to rivet on the linings? Is there a reasonable availability somewhere for complete brake pads? Thanks Tim Bryan RV-6 Flying N616TB over 100 hours now href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Brake Pad replacement
Date: Oct 12, 2008
If you do not mind spending a little extra money for the best rivet setting tool=2C order these dies for your hand rivet squeezer. http://www.averytools.com/p-173-die-set-for-setting-brake-rivets.aspx I like these dies in my hand squeezer better than ANY other brake rivet too l that I have seen. This is my opinion and someone else may have something they like better. These dies are what work best for me. Someone else may have something better that works for them. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell=2C 2=2C156+ Flying Hours So. CA=2C USA From: n616tb(at)btsapps.com Subject: RE: RV-List: Brake Pad replacement Date: Sun=2C 12 Oct 2008 17:11:02 -0500 Hi John=2C Thanks for the info and link. I was actually just turning my tires around so they would wear on the other side=2C so packing bearings an d such. The brakes are easy=2C but didn=92t plan that so now need to wait to get parts and tools. Thanks again. Tim Bryan RV-6 Flying N616TB over 100 hours now From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.c om] On Behalf Of Richard Dudley Sent: Sunday=2C October 12=2C 2008 3:29 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Brake Pad replacement Hi Tim=2C I decided to replace my pads around the 120 hour point. Could have gotten a f ew more miles but at annual time it seemed most convenient. Getting everything apart for bearing maintenance is the most time consuming. Replacing the pad s is easy and quick. The kits from Van's contain the rivets. The tool is inexpen sive from Spruce. See: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/brakelining rivset.php Rich Dudley 6A flying and for sale ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Bryan Sent: Sunday=2C October 12=2C 2008 4:07 PM Subject: RV-List: Brake Pad replacement My RV-6 is in need of new brake pads after 120 hours. This seems a bit pre-mature but it needs them none the less. I just looked on Vans site and they show brake lining kit with rivets. Does this require a special rivet device? At 30 bucks I can=92t surmise it would be very cheap to buy the pads with the backing already on. Questions: Is 120 hours sooner than normal for needing brake pads? What do I use to rivet on the linings? Is there a reasonable availability somewhere for complete brake pads? Thanks Tim Bryan RV-6 Flying N616TB over 100 hours now href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.mat ronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matroni cs.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp ://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________________________ Stay up to date on your PC=2C the Web=2C and your mobile phone with Windows Live. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "H. Ivan Haecker" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com>
Subject: Re: Brake Pad replacement
Date: Oct 12, 2008
Tim, The tool comes in two models: standard and deluxe. The ad says the deluxe model is threaded so you can assume the standard model is the hammer (impact) type. Having used both over the years, I would recommend the screw type. Well worth the extra $.If you break just one pad with the hammer type, you'll know what I mean. Not that I've ever broken one myself....... Ivan Haecker -4 1506hrs. S. Cen. TX ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Dudley To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 3:28 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Brake Pad replacement Hi Tim, I decided to replace my pads around the 120 hour point. Could have gotten a few more miles but at annual time it seemed most convenient. Getting everything apart for bearing maintenance is the most time consuming. Replacing the pads is easy and quick. The kits from Van's contain the rivets. The tool is inexpensive from Spruce. See: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/brakeliningrivset.php Rich Dudley 6A flying and for sale ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Bryan To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 4:07 PM Subject: RV-List: Brake Pad replacement My RV-6 is in need of new brake pads after 120 hours. This seems a bit pre-mature but it needs them none the less. I just looked on Vans site and they show brake lining kit with rivets. Does this require a special rivet device? At 30 bucks I can't surmise it would be very cheap to buy the pads with the backing already on. Questions: Is 120 hours sooner than normal for needing brake pads? What do I use to rivet on the linings? Is there a reasonable availability somewhere for complete brake pads? Thanks Tim Bryan RV-6 Flying N616TB over 100 hours now href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Brake Pad replacement
Date: Oct 13, 2008
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: Brake Pad replacement
Date: Oct 12, 2008
Thanks everyone for the answers, links, and advice. I will be ordering a toolset tomorrow along with new brake pads. I can't wait too long since I need to be able to fly. Condition Inspection is next month so trying to get ahead of the game. Tim Bryan RV-6 Flying N616TB over 100 hours now From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV6 Flyer Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 5:59 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Brake Pad replacement If you do not mind spending a little extra money for the best rivet setting tool, order these dies for your hand rivet squeezer. http://www.averytools.com/p-173-die-set-for-setting-brake-rivets.aspx I like these dies in my hand squeezer better than ANY other brake rivet tool that I have seen. This is my opinion and someone else may have something they like better. These dies are what work best for me. Someone else may have something better that works for them. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 2,156+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA _____ From: n616tb(at)btsapps.com Subject: RE: RV-List: Brake Pad replacement Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 17:11:02 -0500 Hi John, Thanks for the info and link. I was actually just turning my tires around so they would wear on the other side, so packing bearings and such. The brakes are easy, but didn't plan that so now need to wait to get parts and tools. Thanks again. Tim Bryan RV-6 Flying N616TB over 100 hours now From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Dudley Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 3:29 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Brake Pad replacement Hi Tim, I decided to replace my pads around the 120 hour point. Could have gotten a few more miles but at annual time it seemed most convenient. Getting everything apart for bearing maintenance is the most time consuming. Replacing the pads is easy and quick. The kits from Van's contain the rivets. The tool is inexpensive from Spruce. See: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/brakeliningrivset.php Rich Dudley 6A flying and for sale ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Bryan <mailto:n616tb(at)btsapps.com> Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 4:07 PM Subject: RV-List: Brake Pad replacement My RV-6 is in need of new brake pads after 120 hours. This seems a bit pre-mature but it needs them none the less. I just looked on Vans site and they show brake lining kit with rivets. Does this require a special rivet device? At 30 bucks I can't surmise it would be very cheap to buy the pads with the backing already on. Questions: Is 120 hours sooner than normal for needing brake pads? What do I use to rivet on the linings? Is there a reasonable availability somewhere for complete brake pads? Thanks Tim Bryan RV-6 Flying N616TB over 100 hours now href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/cont=============== _____ Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with/direct/01/' target='_new'>See Now ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 12, 2008
From: Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Brake Pad replacement
The Rapco brake rivet tool is really good. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/RapcoBrake.php I like it better than the ones you hit with a hammer because it's really easy to overset those. Pax, Ed Holyoke Richard Dudley wrote: > Hi Tim, > > I decided to replace my pads around the 120 hour point. Could have > gotten a few more miles but at annual time it seemed most convenient. > Getting everything apart for bearing maintenance is the most time > consuming. Replacing the pads is easy and quick. The kits from Van's > contain the rivets. The tool is inexpensive from Spruce. See: > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/brakeliningrivset.php > > Rich Dudley > 6A flying and for sale > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Tim Bryan > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Sunday, October 12, 2008 4:07 PM > *Subject:* RV-List: Brake Pad replacement > > My RV-6 is in need of new brake pads after 120 hours. This seems > a bit pre-mature but it needs them none the less. I just looked > on Vans site and they show brake lining kit with rivets. Does > this require a special rivet device? At 30 bucks I can't surmise > it would be very cheap to buy the pads with the backing already > on. Questions: > > Is 120 hours sooner than normal for needing brake pads? > > What do I use to rivet on the linings? > > Is there a reasonable availability somewhere for complete brake pads? > > > > Thanks > > *Tim Bryan* > > *RV-6 Flying* > > *N616TB over 100 hours now* > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > * > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Manifold Presser Error
From: "Rudi" <rudolf.dallinger(at)kapsch.net>
Date: Oct 13, 2008
Dear Listers. Yesterday, during a flight my manifold presser gauge showed suddenly an off scale reading. After landing, I switched the Master off and on the gauge rested at zero Several Master on and offs leeds sometimes to zero and sometimes to end of scale reading. It is a Vans gauge u transducer, it worked fine for 7 hours. What would you say, is it the gauge or is it the transducer or a problem with ground? Thank you Rudi RV8, 81943 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8493#208493 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Danielson" <johnd(at)wlcwyo.com>
Subject: Bakerseal Or EZTurn?
Date: Oct 13, 2008
I used EZ Turn, not so much to form a seal but to make connecting aluminum AN fittings easier. Makes their removal much easier. Shouldn't the flare fitting seal the line? I like the idea of EZ Turn due to the fact you can apply the correct torque without fear of galling the aluminum fittings. John L. Danielson _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RALPH HOOVER Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 8:23 PM Subject: RV-List: Bakerseal Or EZTurn? "What are the pros and cons of Bakerseal vs. EZTurn for installing all of the AN Blue fittings?" Matt, I have used both EZ-Turn and Fuel Lube on AN fittings. The fuel lines appear to be leak free, not true for the brake lines. I will now try Loctite 567 on the brake fittings. Report to follow!! Ralph & Laura Hoover RV7A N527LR Very very close!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2008
From: Tom & Cathy Ervin <tcervin(at)embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: Brake Pad replacement
=C2-Will this tool work on Matco caliper=C2-shoes? =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Th anks, Tom in Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 6:58:48 PM (GMT-0500) America/New_York Subject: RE: RV-List: Brake Pad replacement If you do not mind spending a little extra money for the best rivet setting tool, order these dies for your hand rivet squeezer. http://www.averytools.com/p-173-die-set-for-setting-brake-rivets.aspx I like these dies in my hand squeezer better than ANY other brake rivet too l that I have seen.=C2- This is my opinion and someone else may have some thing they like better.=C2- These dies are what work best for me.=C2- S omeone else may have something better that works for them. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 2,156+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA From: n616tb(at)btsapps.com Subject: RE: RV-List: Brake Pad replacement Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 17:11:02 -0500 Hi John, Thanks for the info and link.=C2- I was actually just turning my tires ar ound so they would wear on the other side, so packing bearings and such.=C2 - The brakes are easy, but didn=99t plan that so now need to wait t o get parts and tools. Thanks again. Tim Bryan RV-6 Flying N616TB=C2-over 100 hours now From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matro nics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Dudley Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 3:29 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Brake Pad replacement Hi Tim, I decided to replace my pads around the 120 hour point. Could have gotten a few more miles but at annual time it seemed most convenient. Getting every thing apart for bearing maintenance is the most time consuming. Replacing t he pads is easy and quick. The kits from Van's contain the rivets. The tool is inexpensive from Spruce. See: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/top ages/brakeliningrivset.php Rich Dudley 6A flying and for sale ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Bryan Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 4:07 PM Subject: RV-List: Brake Pad replacement My RV-6 is in need of new brake pads after 120 hours.=C2- This seems a bi t pre-mature but it needs them none the less.=C2- I just looked on Vans s ite and they show brake lining kit with rivets.=C2- Does this require a s pecial rivet device?=C2- At 30 bucks I can=99t surmise it would be very cheap to buy the pads with the backing already on.=C2- Questions: Is 120 hours sooner than normal for needing brake pads? What do I use to rivet on the linings? Is there a reasonable availability somewhere for complete brake pads? Thanks Tim Bryan RV-6 Flying N616TB=C2-over 100 hours now =C2- =C2- href="http://www.matronics.c om/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List href="ht tp://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.m atronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c =C2- =C2- http:// www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www. matronics.com/contribution =C2- http://www.matronics.com/Namatronics.com/ contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/cont==== ============ Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with/direct/01/' ================== === ======================= == ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Duane Bentley" <dbentley(at)fuse.net>
Subject: Fuel Pump Problem
Date: Oct 13, 2008
My RV6 has 350 hours on it, with Airflow Performance Fuel Injection. Lately I noticed an oil leak in the bottom of the cowl and after a lot a searching I found the mechanical fuel pump with oil dripping off the bottom. Several of the small screws on the bottom were loose, so I assumed an onset of a failure to the diaphragm and went to the local Aviall distributor and bought a rebuilt LW15473. It says it's a "Tempest". I installed it and started the engine. It keeps dying at idle. The electrical fuel pump will keep it running showing fuel pressure of 28-30 psi, but when I switch it off, the pressure bleeds down to around 16 psi and then the engine quits. Same thing 3-4 times, even at higher throttle settings. I pulled the pump off to verify that I had installed it correctly. The top of the pump arm has a shinny mark where the plunger from the accessory case is hitting it - dead center. I guess I go back to Aviall. Any other suggestions? Duane Bentley RV6 - N515DB West Chester, OH ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Fuel Pump Problem
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Several years ago=2C a friend of mine with a FI engine had the same problem with a Lycoming pump. The part number on the pump was correct but the pum p that came out of the box was a different part number. It was for the 5 PS I carb. It is possible that they put the WRONG pump in the correct box. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell=2C 2=2C156+ Flying Hours So. CA=2C USA From: dbentley(at)fuse.net Subject: RV-List: Fuel Pump Problem Date: Mon=2C 13 Oct 2008 19:53:37 -0400 My RV6 has 350 hours on it=2C with Airflow Performance Fuel Injection. Lately I noticed an oil leak in the bottom of the cowl and after a lot a se arching I found the mechanical fuel pump with oil dripping off the bottom. Several of the small screws on the bottom were loose=2C so I assumed an onset of a failure to the diaphragm and went to the local Aviall distributor and bough t a rebuilt LW15473. It says it=92s a =93Tempest=94. I installed it and started the engine. It keeps dying at idle. The electrical fuel pump will keep it running showing fuel pressure of 28-30 psi=2C but when I switch it off=2C the pressure bleeds do wn to around 16 psi and then the engine quits. Same thing 3-4 times=2C even at higher throttle settings. I pulled the pump off to verify that I had installed it correctly. The top of the pump arm has a shinny mark where the plunger from the accessory case is hitting it ' dead center. I guess I go back to Aviall. Any other suggestions? Duane Bentley RV6 ' N515DB West Chester=2C OH _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn =9310 hidden secrets=94 from Jamie . http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!5 50F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2008
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Pump Problem
Do you have a fuel pressure gauge? Odds are that you got the low pressure pump for carburetors (5-7psi) vs the high pressure for FI that puts out around 24 psi. Duane Bentley wrote: > > My RV6 has 350 hours on it, with Airflow Performance Fuel Injection. > Lately I noticed an oil leak in the bottom of the cowl and after a lot > a searching I found the mechanical fuel pump with oil dripping off the > bottom. Several of the small screws on the bottom were loose, so I > assumed an onset of a failure to the diaphragm and went to the local > Aviall distributor and bought a rebuilt LW15473. It says its a > Tempest. I installed it and started the engine. It keeps dying at idle. > > The electrical fuel pump will keep it running showing fuel pressure of > 28-30 psi, but when I switch it off, the pressure bleeds down to > around 16 psi and then the engine quits. Same thing 3-4 times, even at > higher throttle settings. > > I pulled the pump off to verify that I had installed it correctly. The > top of the pump arm has a shinny mark where the plunger from the > accessory case is hitting it dead center. I guess I go back to > Aviall. Any other suggestions? > > Duane Bentley > > RV6 N515DB > > West Chester, OH > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Subject: Re: Throttle/Mixture/Prop Firewall Location
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Dwight, I used the throttle position given by Van's as it was good. I used the mixture cable I got from Van's but it was a bit short. I forgot that you can get a longer one. I did use it and I ran it through the fire wall inset on the lower left corner and curved it downward past the fuel pump and down to a custom termination bracket mounted to the upper mount on the AFP mount. The mount was pieced together with parts from AFP and welded. Look at my web site and I think I have some pix on the instillation. www.websites.expercraft.com/jimn Jim ____________________________________________________________ Get the sign you need for the impact you want. Click now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oB4gFumvTtfCfboZkLD3DuNRljtPkV9YSjtUYDjLE9u47k3/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2008
From: tom sargent <sarg314(at)comcast.net>
Subject: hauling fuselage to hangar
Within a week or two I will have to haul my RV-6A fuselage, on it's landing gear (minus empennage and wings) to the hangar. I have heard that a good way to do that is using a flat bed tow truck, the kind with a hydraulically tilt-able bed. That involves winching the thing up the inclined flat bed until the mains are on the bed, and then righting the bed and pushing it the rest of the way forward. My question is, where do you attach the rope/nylon strap to pull the plane up onto the truck? My guess is to wrap it around the lower portion of the engine mount where the nose gear attaches. Or, do you think the flatbed tow truck is a bad idea? What's better? Thanks, -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: hauling fuselage to hangar
From: "Rick Galati" <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 14, 2008
sarg314(at)comcast.net wrote: > .....I have heard > that a good way to do that is using a flat bed tow truck, the kind with > a hydraulically tilt-able bed........My question is, where do you attach the rope/nylon strap to pull the > plane up onto the truck?......... Tom, I did not use a winch to roll the RV-6A up the tow truck ramp. That's me with a towbar at the front pulling while my helper was alongside pushing. (http://imageshack.us) (http://imageshack.us) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8766#208766 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2008
From: mark phipps <skydive80020(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: hauling fuselage to hangar
Tom, The flat bed tow trusk works quite well. I put some simulated wooden w ing spars in from the construction phase and had helpers push it up from th ere, worked very well. Also I felt better having a vehicle in front and beh ind during the transport to ensure that rear end collisions were controlled and other vehicles were kept a safe distance. - Mark Phipps, RV6A, "Gypsy Spirit" flying 200 hours --- On Tue, 10/14/08, tom sargent wrote: From: tom sargent <sarg314(at)comcast.net> Subject: RV-List: hauling fuselage to hangar Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2008, 11:10 AM Within a week or two I will have to haul my RV-6A fuselage, on it's landing gear (minus empennage and wings) to the hangar. I have heard that a good way to do that is using a flat bed tow truck, the kind with a hydraulically tilt-able bed. That involves winching the thing up the inclined flat bed until the mains are on the bed, and then righting the bed and pushing it the rest of the way forward. My question is, where do you attach the rope/nylon strap to pull the plane up onto the truck? My guess is to wrap it around the lower portion of the engine mount where the nose gear attaches. Or, do you think the flatbed tow truck is a bad idea? What's better? Thanks, -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Hand" <chris_hand(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: hauling fuselage to hangar
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Tom, I've heard the flat bed tow truck works well. I didn't go that route though as I'd already moved my RV-6A fuselage cross country in a 26' U-Haul truck so had the ramps ready to go and knew it would work well. Wasn't too expensive either, but for in-town rental they usually give you the crappy (i.e. don't trust it to go far) trucks vice the pretty nice / newer one I was able to get for the longer move. I used a group of about 5 friends to wheel the plane up and down the ramps. Probably not much different than what you'd need for flat bed truck ramp if you didn't use a winch. Just offer that up as an alternative. Photos of what I did are at links below. Final move to airport (approx 35 mile freeway ride): http://rv6aproject.ckhand.com/finishingStages/MoveToAirport/moveToAirportPg1.htm Move from WA to CA (about 800 mile mostly freeway ride): http://rv6aproject.ckhand.com/MovingTheRV/WA-to-CAmove.htm Chris Hand RV-6A, ready for final inspection..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "tom sargent" <sarg314(at)comcast.net> Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 10:10 AM Subject: RV-List: hauling fuselage to hangar > > Within a week or two I will have to haul my RV-6A fuselage, on it's > landing gear (minus empennage and wings) to the hangar. I have heard that > a good way to do that is using a flat bed tow truck, the kind with a > hydraulically tilt-able bed. That involves winching the thing up the > inclined flat bed until the mains are on the bed, and then righting the > bed and pushing it the rest of the way forward. > > My question is, where do you attach the rope/nylon strap to pull the plane > up onto the truck? My guess is to wrap it around the lower portion of the > engine mount where the nose gear attaches. > > Or, do you think the flatbed tow truck is a bad idea? What's better? > > Thanks, > -- > Tom Sargent, RV-6A > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vince Himsl" <vshimsl(at)live.com>
Subject: hauling fuselage to hangar
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Hello, This is how I did it (picture below). Let me know if the picture doesn't make it. The video is over 30meg so I just pasted a screen shot. I hired a local towing outfit. The driver was the expert and I pretty much followed his advice. I am really not doing much as he had it under control. The tilt bed is a no brainer. Mine is a tail dragger so your connection points will be different, again the driver should have a good idea about that. You possibly could tape a dolly or wheel onto the tail of your plane to make it a tail dragger for a day. Then attached the straps as shown. Oh the towing outfit had an electric winch. It was soo nice hiring out this part of the project that I cannot recommend any other way. The guy that hauled my RV8 was so thrilled to be hauling an airplane that he gave me a break on the price. Vince H. RV8 - Finish -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tom sargent Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 10:11 AM Subject: RV-List: hauling fuselage to hangar Within a week or two I will have to haul my RV-6A fuselage, on it's landing gear (minus empennage and wings) to the hangar. I have heard that a good way to do that is using a flat bed tow truck, the kind with a hydraulically tilt-able bed. That involves winching the thing up the inclined flat bed until the mains are on the bed, and then righting the bed and pushing it the rest of the way forward. My question is, where do you attach the rope/nylon strap to pull the plane up onto the truck? My guess is to wrap it around the lower portion of the engine mount where the nose gear attaches. Or, do you think the flatbed tow truck is a bad idea? What's better? Thanks, -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Panama Red" <panamared5(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel in the Oil
Date: Oct 14, 2008
I just got my oil analysis back and I was told that I have 2.3 % fuel in the oil and the value should be less than 1%. I have an IO 360 A1A, and I mostly use unleaded auto fuel. Blackstone labs thinks I should check the injectors on the engine and any other source of fuel. Any ideas on what to check for, and what might be causing the problem? Thanks Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 15, 2008
From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel in the Oil
I'm having to look harder and harder to find un-ethanol-ed unleaded auto gas around here, Bob. Just dumped 15 gallons out of the plane that the wife bought for me at the deep discount Kroger station, because I saw signs on the pump later that week that said may contain 10% ethanol. Did the water test, and sure enough- positive for corn squeezin's. Not until after I dumped the first jerry can from the wing tanks into my pickup truck tank did I think about the residual 100 LL that was mixed in there from a September cross-country. I hope I have not ruined my cat converter; I have another dozen gallons of premium gasohol / 100 LL mix that I can only burn in the motorcycles and lawnmowers ;-( Be careful about the ethanol - it's making inroads in our region, and it's time for the high vapor pressure winter mix to hit the market, too. -Bill B On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 8:22 PM, Panama Red wrote: > > I just got my oil analysis back and I was told that I have 2.3 % fuel in > the oil and the value should be less than 1%. > > I have an IO 360 A1A, and I mostly use unleaded auto fuel. Blackstone labs > thinks I should check the injectors on the engine and any other source of > fuel. > > Any ideas on what to check for, and what might be causing the problem? > > Thanks > > Bob > RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 15, 2008
From: Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel in the Oil
Bill, While the lead will coat the catalytic converter and the oxygen sensors, it's affect will be only temporary. Once you put pure unleaded back into the car, the lead will burn off of the cat and the oxygen sensor. Charlie Kuss --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Bill Boyd wrote: > From: Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel in the Oil > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 10:02 AM > I'm having to look harder and harder to find > un-ethanol-ed unleaded auto gas > around here, Bob. Just dumped 15 gallons out of the plane > that the wife > bought for me at the deep discount Kroger station, because > I saw signs on > the pump later that week that said may contain 10% ethanol. > Did the water > test, and sure enough- positive for corn squeezin's. > Not until after I > dumped the first jerry can from the wing tanks into my > pickup truck tank did > I think about the residual 100 LL that was mixed in there > from a September > cross-country. I hope I have not ruined my cat converter; > I have another > dozen gallons of premium gasohol / 100 LL mix that I can > only burn in the > motorcycles and lawnmowers ;-( > > Be careful about the ethanol - it's making inroads in > our region, and it's > time for the high vapor pressure winter mix to hit the > market, too. > > -Bill B > > On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 8:22 PM, Panama Red > wrote: > > Red" > > > > I just got my oil analysis back and I was told that I > have 2.3 % fuel in > > the oil and the value should be less than 1%. > > > > I have an IO 360 A1A, and I mostly use unleaded auto > fuel. Blackstone labs > > thinks I should check the injectors on the engine and > any other source of > > fuel. > > > > Any ideas on what to check for, and what might be > causing the problem? > > > > Thanks > > > > Bob > > RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 15, 2008
From: George Inman 204 287 8334 <ghinman(at)mts.net>
Subject: Thin washers under bolts on gear tower
I have the RV-8 QB The quick builders put thin washers under the head of the bolts that fasten the gear bolt weldment to the tower (see dwg 24 F802) The drawing does not call for the washers,and it seems to make the AN3-5A bolt too short. Can others with RV-8 QB check theirs and see if it the same? -- George H. Inman ghinman(at)mts.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 15, 2008
From: "David Burnham" <daverv6a(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: hauling fuselage to hangar
Tom, Used a wrecker - see picture. Just tied the cable to the front fork and eased it on. No trouble. Tie the wheels down well, but DO NOT tie the tail down, have heard of fuselages being bent! Dave Burnham On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 12:10 PM, tom sargent wrote: > > Within a week or two I will have to haul my RV-6A fuselage, on it's landing > gear (minus empennage and wings) to the hangar. I have heard that a good > way to do that is using a flat bed tow truck, the kind with a hydraulically > tilt-able bed. That involves winching the thing up the inclined flat bed > until the mains are on the bed, and then righting the bed and pushing it the > rest of the way forward. > > My question is, where do you attach the rope/nylon strap to pull the plane > up onto the truck? My guess is to wrap it around the lower portion of the > engine mount where the nose gear attaches. > > Or, do you think the flatbed tow truck is a bad idea? What's better? > > Thanks, > -- > Tom Sargent, RV-6A > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: Don Corbitt
Date: Oct 16, 2008
This is from this morning's Aero-news net: Court Overturns Denial Of Summary Judgment Against NWEAA, EAA In 1999 Accident Allows Both Parties The Right To Seek Costs http://www.aero-news.net/images/content/general/2003/justicegavel0502a_tn.gi fAero-News has reviewed, and verified as accurate, documents dated October 13, 2008 from the Court of Appeals of the State Of Washington... that show a controversial ruling against the Experimental Aircraft Association and the Northwest EAA Fly-In, stemming from a July 1999 takeoff accident during the Arlington Fly-In, has been overturned on appeal. "We reverse the judgment in favor of Corbitt and remand for entry of judgment in favor of NWEAA and EAA," reads the last line of the 17-page filing, obtained by ANN. <http://www.aero-news.net/news/genav.cfm?ContentBlockID=25ac8526-1c04-42fa-9 273-7a12a190e669&Dynamic=1> As ANN reported, a Snohomish County Superior Court jury awarded $10.5 million to the family of Don Allen Corbitt, the pilot who died in the July 7, 1999 accident at the Northwest EAA Fly-In. The jury determined both the national Experimental Aircraft Association, as well as the regional EAA chapter, were responsible for a large percentage of the damages. That decision flew in the face of determinations made by the National Transportation Safety Board... which ruled "the pilot's excessive climb rate, which lead to his failure to maintain an airspeed above stalling speed (Vs)" was the probable cause of the takeoff crash. "Factors include the pilot's lack of total experience in the aircraft make and model," the NTSB added. Corbitt's widow sued NWEAA and EAA, as well as the City of Arlington, in June 2002... alleging all three were negligent for "failing to adequately respond to Mr. Corbitt's accident" and failing "to provide adequate fire, rescue, and emergency response for the fly-in." The plaintiff argued all three were liable "because the defendants owned, managed, leased, or otherwise controlled" the land where Corbitt's aircraft crashed (shown in the image below). The court later granted a June 2004 motion filed by the City of Arlington, seeking a summary judgment removing it from all responsibility. A similar request for summary judgment filed by NWEAA and EAA was denied, however. http://www.aero-news.net/images/content/sportav/2007/Arlington2006-Zodiac-ba nking-0706a_tn.jpg In January 2007, a jury returned a $10.5 million verdict against all three entities, stating they each bore responsibility for the accident, and Corbitt's subsequent death in a post-impact fire. The jury apportioned fault "at 45 percent to NWEAA, 40 percent to EAA, and 15 percent to the City of Arlington." The judge later reduced the amount of damages by 15 percent, which eliminated Arlington's obligation to repay its share of the verdict award. NWEAA and EAA appealed that decision, as well as the earlier ruling against those entities' summary judgment request. Corbitt's widow, in turn, appealed the judge's reduction of the damages... though she did not appeal the earlier ruling of summary judgment in favor of the city. http://www.aero-news.net/images/content/general/2003/EAAlogo0702a_tn.jpgIn its ruling issued Monday, the Appeals Court sided with NWEAA and EAA on the matter of summary judgment... effectively rendering the later jury verdict null and void. "A cause of action in negligence requires that a plaintiff establish the existence of a duty owed, the breach of that duty, a resulting injury, and the proximate cause between the breach and the injury," the court wrote. "...But NWAA and EAA did not control the portion of the airport where Mr. Corbitt crashed. Nothing in the report supports a conclusion that NWEAA was in control of the fire or first aid personnel. "We find no basis in Washington law to hold that NWEAA, as a possessor of land, had a duty to provide first-aid services to Mr. Corbitt, a business invitee, once he had left the premises possessed by NWEAA," the court added. "We hold that as a matter of law, NWEAA and EAA were entitled to summary judgment on the issue of duty." The court adds that counsel may file a motion for reconsideration of the Appeals Court ruling within 20 days. NWEAA and EAA may also file a claim for costs incurred in fighting the lawsuit within 10 days of the ruling. Even if the court's decision is upheld and NWEAA and EAA are cleared of any wrongdoing, once-and-for-all, things will never be the same for EAA, or the organizers of regional fly-ins. Over the past year, EAA has renegotiated contracts with all fly-ins that once freely used "EAA" in their names, even if those events weren't EAA-sanctioned events. The EAA's new policy shuns any implied sponsorship of regional fly-ins, by removing 'EAA' from those events' titles. http://www.aero-news.net/images/content/general/2005/dollar-sign-shadow-1105 _tn.jpg EAA will continue to maintain most of its support for those shows, including promotional duties and sponsorship of aviation educational activities such as forums and workshops... but where the new policy hurts organizers most, is in the matter of insurance. In the past, EAA arranged for insurance coverage for regional fly-ins as part of its overall av-insurance plan. Regional organizers would then reimburse EAA for their portion of insurance costs -- meaning, in essence, fly-ins benefited from paying the EAA's rates. Under the new agreement, regional fly-in events must secure their own insurance, often at significantly higher costs. That decision came as a direct result of the January 2007 jury verdict. FMI: www.courts.wa.gov/, www.nweaa.org, www.eaa.org, www.air-law.com, Read The NTSB Probable Cause Report <http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id 001212X19356&ntsbno=SEA99FA105& akey=1> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 16, 2008
From: Garey Wittich <gareywittich2000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Misplaced Dimple Hole where Skin Stiffener SURFACE contacts the
Skin Greetings: Found no answer to this in Matronics archieves. While dimpling the Elev Skin accidently punched a hole and made a dimple about 1/8" from the desired location where the Skin Stiffener SURFACE MEETS THE SKIN. (Stiffener was previously drilled / dimpled.) I "gently' flattened the misplaced dimple with minimum thinning of the Skin - very slight dimple remains. Then dimpled the desired rivet hole. The 2 dimples (desired and the flattened undesired dimple) slightly over lap at their outer edges. Took a #49 drill and drilled the undesired dimple hole to relieve MOST of the Skin cracking at the hole edges. Question: Any suggestion on how to prevent possible "future" cracking of the Skin where the undesired dimple is ?? Use RTV to fill the hole from the Bottom Side and Super Fil to cosmetically fill in the Top Side of the Skin ?? (Do not believe RTV can be painted over - otherwise would use RTV on both sides ??) Appreciate suggestions, Garey ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 16, 2008
From: Garey Wittich <gareywittich2000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Use Miniature Toggle Switches for Mag Grounding ???
Plan to use C&K 7000 Series miniature ( 1/4" size ) "LOCKING Toggle Switches for Mag grounding as Panel space is limited on the RV-8A. Anybody have EXPERIENCE using miniature toggle switches (made by C&K, Alco Switch, etc.) ???? Were they reliable in this application ??? If so, what Mfg / Part # did you use ?? Thanks, Garey Santa Monica, CA (310) 392-1682 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Thin washers under bolts on gear tower
Date: Oct 16, 2008
Hi George- My copy of the plans calls for one normal thickness washer, and that's all that's installed in my QB-8. glen matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net > From: George Inman > Subject: RV-List: Thin washers under bolts on gear tower > > > I have the RV-8 QB > The quick builders put thin washers under the head of the bolts that > fasten the gear bolt weldment to the tower (see dwg 24 F802) > The drawing does not call for the washers,and it seems to make the AN3-5A > bolt too short. Can others with RV-8 QB check theirs and see if it the > same? > > -- > > George H. Inman > ghinman(at)mts.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 16, 2008
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Use Miniature Toggle Switches for Mag Grounding ???
Garey Wittich wrote: > > Plan to use C&K 7000 Series miniature ( 1/4" size ) "LOCKING Toggle Switches for Mag grounding as Panel space is limited on the RV-8A. > > Anybody have EXPERIENCE using miniature toggle switches (made by C&K, Alco Switch, etc.) ???? Were they reliable in this application ??? > > If so, what Mfg / Part # did you use ?? > > Thanks, Garey Santa Monica, CA (310) 392-1682 '91 RV-4 (bought in 2003) has around 1000 hrs on generic miniature toggles (non-locking) for mags. Only problem is that the mounting nut gets loose sometimes on one of them, but the panel has a real wood veneer overlay (soft) & it's pretty hard to get them tight. Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 17, 2008
From: "VIRGIL Y" <virgily(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 10/16/08
Greedy lawyers ... read the first message. Virgil In a message dated 10/17/08 02:09:10 Central Daylight Time, rv-list(at)matronics.com writes: http://www.aero-news.net/images/content/sportav/2007/Arlington2006-Zodiac-ba nking-0706a_tn.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 17, 2008
From: "Lapsley R. and Sandra E. Caldwell" <lrsecaldwell(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Wheel bearinfs
Does any one have a source and/or part #s for RV7 main wheel bearings? Thanks Roger ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 17, 2008
Subject: Wheel Bearings
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
With the bearing part numbers, you can get them at any "Bearing house". I am a bearing house located in central Florida so if you can not find anyone, give me a shot. Jim Nelson Terry Bearing Co. 727-541-5527 RV9-A ____________________________________________________________ Click for free info on college degrees. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3l8Wv0i7ZkSQqp4cnEZKkDhIwNT5oBIYXr2s7k8nchjoTveT/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 17, 2008
Subject: Wheel Bearings
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
When dealing with wheel bearings, there are two types. The main gear would be taper roller style. Cup and cone. The parts have two different part numbers so if you pull your wheels and the cones fall in your hand, that will have one part number. The cup (outer race inside the wheel hub) will have a different part number. You will have to knock out the race to see the part number of the outer race. Tail wheels usually have ball style bearings. Those usually are mounted in a one piece bearing with a retaining ring on the outside to keep the bearing from falling into the hub. That said, some tail wheels also have taper roller bearings. Jim Nelson Terry Bearing Co. RV9-A ____________________________________________________________ Live the good life! Click now for great retirement planning assistance! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3mK7Brn80lxadQJrr86iaqaW2QhF5vlZzeaeT5yD1l5qVnwH/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry James" <larry(at)ncproto.com>
Subject: Corbitt award reversed
Date: Oct 17, 2008
I was fairly outspoken at the time this original decision came - I hold strongly to the idea of accountability and Corbitt's crash and (unfortunate) death are his own fault. As much as I would like to have sympathy for his widow and family; after her suit I have none. While this court decision to overturn the jury award is good and reflects some sense of sanity; the original suit has still caused harm by forcing the EAA to change how it endorses fly-ins and the insurance ramifications. I still know this whole scenario stinks. Larry E. James Bellevue, WA Super Decathlon Rocket (still under construction) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DCS317(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 17, 2008
Subject: Standard locking toggle switches?
I'm redoing my panel layout and want to add regular size locking toggle switches for master and avionics. I tend to bump them off when I move my right leg around on long flights! Anybody have EXPERIENCE using STANDARD size LOCKING toggle switches (made by C&K, Alco Switch, or anybody) ???? Were they reliable in this application ??? I want very good quality since these are so primary to keeping things going. If so, what Mfg / Part # did you use ?? Don 200 hours on RV-8 N417DS **************BUY Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull on DVD today! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Point" <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Wheel bearinfs
Date: Oct 17, 2008
The main wheel bearing for my -6 (I assume the 7 uses the same wheel but check first) was Timken p/n 8125 and the race was 8132. I got them both at the local National Aircraft Parts Association (NAPA) place, any bearing house should have them too. Jeff Point RV-6 flying/ RV-8 building Milwaukee ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 20, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?
Fellow RV-er's, There is a powercoating shop here in my town that has an oven large enough to put my whole RV-8 fuselage into it. I've been considering just having the whole inside powercoated for the durability, and sweet look. Lots of guys powercoat the instrument panel and obviously most of the steel parts come from Van's powercoated. But what are the upsides and downsides of powercoating all of the interior parts. I've used Variprime on most of the backsides of the interior parts, but I've left the occupant facing parts bare in prep for the powercoating. Will the powercoat chip off easily on the bend-y pieces? And when's the right time to take it down to the powercoaters? I would like to have most things riveted that need riveting before the coating like the forward deck over the instrument panel and the aft turtledeck, but these get riveted on pretty late in the building process. I would like to have all of the wiring and controls installed or at least fabbed and trial fitted before coating to avoid scratches. But again, once things are wired, is coating going to make a mess? Its not like the harnesses can really be removed once their installed... The other concern is the heat necessary to bake on the powercoating. I think its upwards of 450 degrees F. What impact will that temperature have on the various parts that go into the fuselage such as the aeronuts, plastic bushings, clamps, etc? I'm in quite a dilemma over this. I really want to wait as long as possible to avoid scratches and chips in the powercoating, but I don't want to wait too long and not be able to disassemble things to the point of making a good looking job. For example, the rear floor boards should probably be riveted down, but any screwed in panels should be removed. But riveting the floorboards is something I'd probably prefer to do the day before test flying... Thanks for any insight... Matt Dralle RV-8 # 82880 Trutrak Auto Pilot Servo and Aileron Electric Trim Install ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 20, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Sources For Variprime...
Dear Listers, I made a trip over to FinishMasters a couple of weeks ago for some painting supplies. I've traditionally also purchased my Variprime from these guys as they are an auto-paint store. On this last visit, I asked where the Variprime was and was told that "it is no longer available". It that really true? I love Variprime; it goes on easy and is thin enough to make a light protective coat with very little build up. I'm sure there are other primers that are just as good but I'd just assoon stick with what I know at this point. I have about 1/3 of a gallon left which might get me through the rest RV-8 project I've got going, but maybe not. It would be nice to find another supplier. Thanks in advance for the tips... Matt Dralle RV-8 # 82880 Trutrak Auto Pilot Servo and Aileron Electric Trim Install ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 20, 2008
Subject: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Matt, I think the weight will be to much. I used a water based urethane and it is tough as nails. Its a flat white and has sruvived my build in good condition. Jim Nelson RV9-A ____________________________________________________________ Click here to become a professional counselor in less time than you think. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oJto2G96RmFCUjVA6drwRYWWQWmapQcPlBGnBEOWZf7RpG7/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?
Date: Oct 20, 2008
Matt, I agree with Jim. I think it would be a significant weight increase to powder coat. Dale Ensing RV-6A ----- Original Message ----- From: "James H Nelson" <rv9jim(at)juno.com> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 9:23 PM Subject: RV-List: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When? > > Matt, > I think the weight will be to much. I used a water based > urethane and it is tough as nails. Its a flat white and has sruvived my > build in good condition. > > > Jim Nelson > RV9-A > ____________________________________________________________ > Click here to become a professional counselor in less time than you think. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oJto2G96RmFCUjVA6drwRYWWQWmapQcPlBGnBEOWZf7RpG7/ > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 20, 2008
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?
Dale Ensing wrote: > > Matt, > I agree with Jim. I think it would be a significant weight increase to > powder coat. What impact would the powder coat oven (450*?) have on the heat treating of the aluminum alloy? There are several good paints that work very nicely in the interior of our planes. Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?
Date: Oct 20, 2008
From: Brad Templin <btemplin(at)templinelectronics.com>
Disturbing the heat treatment is the problem with powder coat for something like this. 43.13 4-54b says: "Reheating of 2017 and 2024 alloys above 212 F tend to impair the original heat treatment. Therefore, reheating above 212 F, including the baking of primers, is not acceptable without subsequent complete and correct heat treatment." I have a decent sized powder coating setup in my garage and I powder coat LOTS of stuff for aircraft, but I do always try to be mindful of this. I asked a good friend who is in the heat treating business if this was fact or fiction. He indicated that it could start the change the heat treatment of those alloys and he would avoid doing it. For some little bracket or whatever it should be fine, but I don't think I'd do it on the airframe. Brad > > > Dale Ensing wrote: > > > > Matt, > > I agree with Jim. I think it would be a significant weight increase to > > powder coat. > > > What impact would the powder coat oven (450*?) have on the heat treating > of the aluminum alloy? > > There are several good paints that work very nicely in the interior of > our planes. > > Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 21, 2008
From: MikeNellis <mike(at)bmnellis.com>
Subject: And we thought building an RV could be difficult
http://jalopnik.com/photogallery/basementlambobuild/ Check the above link out for an interesting basement build. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 21, 2008
From: "Bob J." <rocketbob(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?
Matt, I have a friend that had his instrument panel powdercoated in his RV-6, thinking it would hold up better than paint He left the airplane outside on a trip and it rained heavily, and some rain droplets made it onto the panel. The panel has some permanent water stains on it now, apparently whatever powdercoat was used was not impervious to water. Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying F1 under const. On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 8:11 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > > Fellow RV-er's, > > There is a powercoating shop here in my town that has an oven large enough > to put my whole RV-8 fuselage into it. I've been considering just having > the whole inside powercoated for the durability, and sweet look. Lots of > guys powercoat the instrument panel and obviously most of the steel parts > come from Van's powercoated. But what are the upsides and downsides of > powercoating all of the interior parts. I've used Variprime on most of the > backsides of the interior parts, but I've left the occupant facing parts > bare in prep for the powercoating. Will the powercoat chip off easily on > the bend-y pieces? > > And when's the right time to take it down to the powercoaters? I would > like to have most things riveted that need riveting before the coating like > the forward deck over the instrument panel and the aft turtledeck, but these > get riveted on pretty late in the building process. I would like to have > all of the wiring and controls installed or at least fabbed and trial fitted > before coating to avoid scratches. But again, once things are wired, is > coating going to make a mess? Its not like the harnesses can really be > removed once their installed... > > The other concern is the heat necessary to bake on the powercoating. I > think its upwards of 450 degrees F. What impact will that temperature have > on the various parts that go into the fuselage such as the aeronuts, plastic > bushings, clamps, etc? > > I'm in quite a dilemma over this. I really want to wait as long as > possible to avoid scratches and chips in the powercoating, but I don't want > to wait too long and not be able to disassemble things to the point of > making a good looking job. For example, the rear floor boards should > probably be riveted down, but any screwed in panels should be removed. But > riveting the floorboards is something I'd probably prefer to do the day > before test flying... > > Thanks for any insight... > > Matt Dralle > RV-8 # 82880 > Trutrak Auto Pilot Servo and Aileron Electric Trim Install > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 21, 2008
From: Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?
Matt, The big issue with powder coating or paint is the quality of the prep work. If the shop doesn't do great prep work, you will have a real mess on your hands. Charlie Kuss --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Matt Dralle wrote: > From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> > Subject: RV-List: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When? > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 8:11 PM > > > > Fellow RV-er's, > > There is a powercoating shop here in my town that has an > oven large enough to put my whole RV-8 fuselage into it. > I've been considering just having the whole inside > powercoated for the durability, and sweet look. Lots of > guys powercoat the instrument panel and obviously most of > the steel parts come from Van's powercoated. But what > are the upsides and downsides of powercoating all of the > interior parts. I've used Variprime on most of the > backsides of the interior parts, but I've left the > occupant facing parts bare in prep for the powercoating. > Will the powercoat chip off easily on the bend-y pieces? > > And when's the right time to take it down to the > powercoaters? I would like to have most things riveted that > need riveting before the coating like the forward deck over > the instrument panel and the aft turtledeck, but these get > riveted on pretty late in the building process. I would > like to have all of the wiring and controls installed or at > least fabbed and trial fitted before coating to avoid > scratches. But again, once things are wired, is coating > going to make a mess? Its not like the harnesses can really > be removed once their installed... > > The other concern is the heat necessary to bake on the > powercoating. I think its upwards of 450 degrees F. What > impact will that temperature have on the various parts that > go into the fuselage such as the aeronuts, plastic bushings, > clamps, etc? > > I'm in quite a dilemma over this. I really want to > wait as long as possible to avoid scratches and chips in the > powercoating, but I don't want to wait too long and not > be able to disassemble things to the point of making a good > looking job. For example, the rear floor boards should > probably be riveted down, but any screwed in panels should > be removed. But riveting the floorboards is something > I'd probably prefer to do the day before test flying... > > Thanks for any insight... > > Matt Dralle > RV-8 # 82880 > Trutrak Auto Pilot Servo and Aileron Electric Trim Install > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Carey" <tiger10(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: Interior Painting - Power coating? When?
Date: Oct 21, 2008
Hi MATT. I have been powder coating a lot of my smaller parts. The process is simple but you need to bring the part to 400deg for about fifteen or twenty minutes. This would just about make doing the whole airframe impossible. Any part that you had paint would no doubt have to be stripped due to the heat. What I have done looks good and like I said it is easy. 1 powder coat kit from Summit Racing $140 1 used electric oven $ 50 install 220v/50amp service to oven $250 Good luck Jim Carey RV8A working on it -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Kuss Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 8:57 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When? Matt, The big issue with powder coating or paint is the quality of the prep work. If the shop doesn't do great prep work, you will have a real mess on your hands. Charlie Kuss --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Matt Dralle wrote: > From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> > Subject: RV-List: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When? > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 8:11 PM > > > > Fellow RV-er's, > > There is a powercoating shop here in my town that has an > oven large enough to put my whole RV-8 fuselage into it. > I've been considering just having the whole inside > powercoated for the durability, and sweet look. Lots of > guys powercoat the instrument panel and obviously most of > the steel parts come from Van's powercoated. But what > are the upsides and downsides of powercoating all of the > interior parts. I've used Variprime on most of the > backsides of the interior parts, but I've left the > occupant facing parts bare in prep for the powercoating. > Will the powercoat chip off easily on the bend-y pieces? > > And when's the right time to take it down to the > powercoaters? I would like to have most things riveted that > need riveting before the coating like the forward deck over > the instrument panel and the aft turtledeck, but these get > riveted on pretty late in the building process. I would > like to have all of the wiring and controls installed or at > least fabbed and trial fitted before coating to avoid > scratches. But again, once things are wired, is coating > going to make a mess? Its not like the harnesses can really > be removed once their installed... > > The other concern is the heat necessary to bake on the > powercoating. I think its upwards of 450 degrees F. What > impact will that temperature have on the various parts that > go into the fuselage such as the aeronuts, plastic bushings, > clamps, etc? > > I'm in quite a dilemma over this. I really want to > wait as long as possible to avoid scratches and chips in the > powercoating, but I don't want to wait too long and not > be able to disassemble things to the point of making a good > looking job. For example, the rear floor boards should > probably be riveted down, but any screwed in panels should > be removed. But riveting the floorboards is something > I'd probably prefer to do the day before test flying... > > Thanks for any insight... > > Matt Dralle > RV-8 # 82880 > Trutrak Auto Pilot Servo and Aileron Electric Trim Install > > __________________________________________________ __________ NOD32 3542 (20081021) Information __________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 21, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?
Thanks for all the great feedback on powercoating the interior! I think I'm going to skip powercoating the interior based on everyone's feedback. I had a conversation with my local body shop guy who I've know for nearly 20 years. He was very willing to take on the project and basically said that we could work out an arrangement where I could do most of the supervised prep work in his shop and then he would simply supply the paint and the skill in applying it. Sounds like a good deal to me. He has a really nice, large sealed paint booth that the -8 will fit right into. He has completely repainted two cars for me in the past and his skill is superb. He was saying that he recently painted a guys Rotoway helecopter. Still, the "when" is a question mark. I want to delay as long as possible, but I don't want to wait too long and have to completely disassemble everything or worse yet *wish* that I could disassemble things for paint. Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 At 05:11 PM 10/20/2008 Monday, you wrote: > > >Fellow RV-er's, > >There is a powercoating shop here in my town that has an oven large enough to put my whole RV-8 fuselage into it. I've been considering just having the whole inside powercoated for the durability, and sweet look. Lots of guys powercoat the instrument panel and obviously most of the steel parts come from Van's powercoated. But what are the upsides and downsides of powercoating all of the interior parts. I've used Variprime on most of the backsides of the interior parts, but I've left the occupant facing parts bare in prep for the powercoating. Will the powercoat chip off easily on the bend-y pieces? > >And when's the right time to take it down to the powercoaters? I would like to have most things riveted that need riveting before the coating like the forward deck over the instrument panel and the aft turtledeck, but these get riveted on pretty late in the building process. I would like to have all of the wiring and controls installed or at least fabbed and trial fitted before coating to avoid scratches. But again, once things are wired, is coating going to make a mess? Its not like the harnesses can really be removed once their installed... > >The other concern is the heat necessary to bake on the powercoating. I think its upwards of 450 degrees F. What impact will that temperature have on the various parts that go into the fuselage such as the aeronuts, plastic bushings, clamps, etc? > >I'm in quite a dilemma over this. I really want to wait as long as possible to avoid scratches and chips in the powercoating, but I don't want to wait too long and not be able to disassemble things to the point of making a good looking job. For example, the rear floor boards should probably be riveted down, but any screwed in panels should be removed. But riveting the floorboards is something I'd probably prefer to do the day before test flying... > >Thanks for any insight... > >Matt Dralle >RV-8 # 82880 >Trutrak Auto Pilot Servo and Aileron Electric Trim Install Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 21, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RE: Fiberglass epoxy of choice
Hi Nelson, Here is a list of stuff to get from ACS to get your fiberglassing project off on the right foot. My empennage tips came out really nice using these ( http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=dralle&project=617&category=2975&log=63902&row=7 ). Composite Tool Kit (Fiberglassing Starter Tool Kit) http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/comptoolkit.php West Systems Epoxy (Get the #105 Resin and #206 Hardner) http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/westepoxy.php West Systems Pump (These work great - Must Have) http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/301PUMP.php West Systems User Manual (Free! Get it!) http://www.aircraftspruce.com/neworderform.php?cmd=add&p=01-08750&q=1 9oz Cloth http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/7500.php Gel Coat http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/polyestergelCoats.php Flocked Cotton (Course Filler) http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/flockedcotton.php Microballoons / Glass Bubbles (Fine Filler) http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/bubbles.php Matt Dralle RV-8 # 82880 At 02:13 PM 10/21/2008 Tuesday, you wrote: >--> RV7-List message posted by: "David E. Nelson" > > >Hi Matt, > >Do you have lead on that West Systems starter kit? I can't seem to find it on ACS's www site. > >Thanks, > /\/elson > > >~~ Lately my memory seems to be like a steel trap .... without any spring. ~~ > >On Tue, 21 Oct 2008, Matt Dralle wrote: > >>--> RV7-List message posted by: Matt Dralle >> >>I would echo Scotts comments. I used the West Systems epoxy and was extremely pleased with the results. Get some microballoons, some flocked cotton, and some 9oz cloth too, to use as filler to mix in with the epoxy where needed. >> >>BTW, ACS has a really nice "starter kit" for fiberglassing that includes all of the "tools" that make the job a whole lot easier. I bought it and am really happy I did. I wouldn't have bought some of the things thinking I "wouldn't need that", but in reality, they came in handy. >> >>You haven't done the tail tips yet, I guess...? >> >>Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 21, 2008
From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?
Matt Dralle wrote: snip > Still, the "when" is a question mark. I want to delay as long as possible, but I don't want to wait too long and have to completely disassemble everything or worse yet *wish* that I could disassemble things for paint. > I think everyone wrestles with this one! When I painted my Pitts, I did it before it was assembled ..... much easier to handle the 'smaller' pieces in the paint booth. I'll probably paint the -10 the same way. My shop is at home and the airport about a mile away, and I've pondered getting the Sheriff to lead me as I taxi down the road .... or after a part is painted, move that part to the airport for assembly. I have friends that still have their plane painted in primer years after they started flying ..... you hate to take a flying pland apart for paint, and painting it assembled means some places won't get paint .... and primer without paint MAY allow corrosion. So, at this point I'll have everything in base coat color when it's assembled to fly .... and it may have the trim at that point also. Linn > Matt Dralle > RV-8 #82880 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Starter Contactor
From: "partner14" <building_partner(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 21, 2008
I have the B&C S701-2 Crossfeed Contactor (starter) and just need to know what wires go to each contact. Really the ones in question are the two small contacts. Neither has the "S" or "I" labels that I've read everyone referencing. Noone at B & C could tell me, so hopefully someone has this wired up already. I've attached the photo that is on the B & C website with the can lid on the top, and one diode going from the left small contact, over and above to the right large lug. This particular contactor has the 2 large lugs on each side and 2 smaller lugs in the middle. I also tried Bob Nuckolls, but email address was no longer valid. Thanks, Don McDonald #40636 -------- Don A. McDonald 40636 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9788#209788 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/s701_2_123.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 22, 2008
From: "Randy Hooper" <krhooper(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Starter Contactor
Don, the "S" is to engage the contactor and goes to the switch. The "I" would be for a "starter engaged light". Randy Hooper On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 10:14 PM, partner14 wrote: > > I have the B&C S701-2 Crossfeed Contactor (starter) and just need to know > what wires go to each contact. Really the ones in question are the two > small contacts. Neither has the "S" or "I" labels that I've read everyone > referencing. Noone at B & C could tell me, so hopefully someone has this > wired up already. I've attached the photo that is on the B & C website with > the can lid on the top, and one diode going from the left small contact, > over and above to the right large lug. This particular contactor has the 2 > large lugs on each side and 2 smaller lugs in the middle. I also tried Bob > Nuckolls, but email address was no longer valid. Thanks, > Don McDonald > #40636 > > -------- > Don A. McDonald > 40636 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9788#209788 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/s701_2_123.jpg > > -- Randy Hooper ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 22, 2008
From: Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?
As far as painting the interior I would wait as long as possible. I found that I was in and out of the aircraft, tools, screws, etc can really scratch up an interior quick. You can mask the panel and wiring, etc...just be sure you have all of your interior mods, drilling, etc done. I've been doing some mods to my RV-4 and will repaint the interior soon, but I'm waiting as long as possible until I get everything done. Paul Besing RV-4 N73DD Arizona ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 2:16:14 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When? Thanks for all the great feedback on powercoating the interior! I think I'm going to skip powercoating the interior based on everyone's feedback. I had a conversation with my local body shop guy who I've know for nearly 20 years. He was very willing to take on the project and basically said that we could work out an arrangement where I could do most of the supervised prep work in his shop and then he would simply supply the paint and the skill in applying it. Sounds like a good deal to me. He has a really nice, large sealed paint booth that the -8 will fit right into. He has completely repainted two cars for me in the past and his skill is superb. He was saying that he recently painted a guys Rotoway helecopter. Still, the "when" is a question mark. I want to delay as long as possible, but I don't want to wait too long and have to completely disassemble everything or worse yet *wish* that I could disassemble things for paint. Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 At 05:11 PM 10/20/2008 Monday, you wrote: > > >Fellow RV-er's, > >There is a powercoating shop here in my town that has an oven large enough to put my whole RV-8 fuselage into it. I've been considering just having the whole inside powercoated for the durability, and sweet look. Lots of guys powercoat the instrument panel and obviously most of the steel parts come from Van's powercoated. But what are the upsides and downsides of powercoating all of the interior parts. I've used Variprime on most of the backsides of the interior parts, but I've left the occupant facing parts bare in prep for the powercoating. Will the powercoat chip off easily on the bend-y pieces? > >And when's the right time to take it down to the powercoaters? I would like to have most things riveted that need riveting before the coating like the forward deck over the instrument panel and the aft turtledeck, but these get riveted on pretty late in the building process. I would like to have all of the wiring and controls installed or at least fabbed and trial fitted before coating to avoid scratches. But again, once things are wired, is coating going to make a mess? Its not like the harnesses can really be removed once their installed... > >The other concern is the heat necessary to bake on the powercoating. I think its upwards of 450 degrees F. What impact will that temperature have on the various parts that go into the fuselage such as the aeronuts, plastic bushings, clamps, etc? > >I'm in quite a dilemma over this. I really want to wait as long as possible to avoid scratches and chips in the powercoating, but I don't want to wait too long and not be able to disassemble things to the point of making a good looking job. For example, the rear floor boards should probably be riveted down, but any screwed in panels should be removed. But riveting the floorboards is something I'd probably prefer to do the day before test flying... > >Thanks for any insight... > >Matt Dralle >RV-8 # 82880 >Trutrak Auto Pilot Servo and Aileron Electric Trim Install Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 22, 2008
From: mark phipps <skydive80020(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Changing tires on RV6A
At 200 hours its time for new tires and brakes on my 6A. Whats the opinion when changing tires should I replace the tubes as well. And if so what tube s are people having luck with that hold air pressure and need filling less often. - Mark Phipps, RV6A, "Gypsy Spirit" 200 hours - =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Starter Contactor
From: "partner14" <building_partner(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 22, 2008
Yep, you're absolutely right.... and if the contactor had either the "S: or the "I" markings, I'd be in great shape. Thanks -------- Don A. McDonald 40636 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9840#209840 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Changing tires on RV6A
Date: Oct 22, 2008
Dear Mark, Here are some observations, along with several recommendations based on my experience. I am not a mechanic, and not an expert, and not very experienced with general aviation. Tire manufacturers recommend changing tubes when changing tires. Lots of people, including me, have re used tubes. If they look unfrayed and serviceable it may be ok.... or not. Here are three arguments for new tubes: 1. Tubes can get frayed and be subject to going flat. 6A will run a good chance of boogering up wheel pants or puting you in the ditch if flat on landing. 2. Tubes will usually stretch with age. reinstalling a stretched tube increases chance of pinching which may result in unexpected flat at later date. See 1. above 3. New generation, slow leak tubes are now available from van's. Cost more but go much longer before needing to be refilled. They cost about as much as cheap tires. I now buy and install new tubes with tire changes. Inspect and reuse after rotations. I am on my 7th set of main tires. Only one flat on main. It was a pinched tube after change. Always try to give it a 24 hour leak check before flying when you can. I also would recommend installing a new tube in the nose gear at annual. Those get frayed and twisted more and I have experienced several flats. None were fun. Also carry a spare tube on x country. One more bit of unsolicited free advice. Don't install patched tubes on the nose. Too much wiggling around, Can come loose. Denis On Oct 22, 2008, at 9:02 , mark phipps wrote: > At 200 hours its time for new tires and brakes on my 6A. Whats the > opinion when changing tires should I replace the tubes as well. And > if so what tubes are people having luck with that hold air pressure > and need filling less often. > > Mark Phipps, RV6A, "Gypsy Spirit" 200 hours > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Starter Contactor
Date: Oct 22, 2008
Hook up the fat wire to the battery, but leave off the one to the starter. Apply 12v to the little terminals one at a time. Use the one that makes it go click for your starter switch wire.. DLW On Oct 21, 2008, at 9:14 , partner14 wrote: > > > I have the B&C S701-2 Crossfeed Contactor (starter) and just need to > know what wires go to each contact. Really the ones in question are > the two small contacts. Neither has the "S" or "I" labels that I've > read everyone referencing. Noone at B & C could tell me, so > hopefully someone has this wired up already. I've attached the > photo that is on the B & C website with the can lid on the top, and > one diode going from the left small contact, over and above to the > right large lug. This particular contactor has the 2 large lugs on > each side and 2 smaller lugs in the middle. I also tried Bob > Nuckolls, but email address was no longer valid. Thanks, > Don McDonald > #40636 > > -------- > Don A. McDonald > 40636 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9788#209788 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/s701_2_123.jpg > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Medema" <doug.medema(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?
Date: Oct 22, 2008
One thing no one has mentioned is the question of what is your interior going to be? I painted the whole interior on my -6A, and later decided to go with an interior package from Flightline Interiors. This includes fabric to cover most of the interior walls. It really makes for a much nicer look than just paint, and at very little extra weight. If I had planned on this from the start, I would have minimized the painting in my interior to just a primer. The fabric will cover up any scratches that happen during building and provides a more durable surface in the finished plane. Something to think about. Doug RV-6A N276DM http://home.comcast.net/~doug.medema/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 22, 2008
From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Changing tires on RV6A
mark phipps wrote: > At 200 hours its time for new tires and brakes on my 6A. Whats the > opinion when changing tires should I replace the tubes as well. And if > so what tubes are people having luck with that hold air pressure and > need filling less often. > > Mark Phipps, RV6A, "Gypsy Spirit" 200 hours > My opinion is to use the tube until it shows signs of dry rot ..... small cracks in the surface. They usually show up long before the tube actually leaks. Other opinions abound, and YMMV. Linn > > > - > > * > > > * > > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 22, 2008
From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Changing tires on RV6A
Denis Walsh wrote: > Dear Mark, > > > Here are some observations, along with several recommendations based > on my experience. I am not a mechanic, and not an expert, and not > very experienced with general aviation. > > Tire manufacturers recommend changing tubes when changing tires. > Lots of people, including me, have re used tubes. If they look > unfrayed and serviceable it may be ok.... or not. Here are three > arguments for new tubes: > > 1. Tubes can get frayed and be subject to going flat. 6A will run a > good chance of boogering up wheel pants or puting you in the ditch if > flat on landing. > > 2. Tubes will usually stretch with age. reinstalling a stretched tube > increases chance of pinching which may result in unexpected flat at > later date. See 1. above You can mitigate pinching if you use copious amounts of talc when you reassemble .... I put talc on both tube and inside of the tire. Once assembled inflate and deflate a couple of times .... I leave the core out and use an air gun to do this. > 3. New generation, slow leak tubes are now available from van's. > Cost more but go much longer before needing to be refilled. They > cost about as much as cheap tires. And for me, the cost is a big deterrent to buying a new tube with a new tire. > I now buy and install new tubes with tire changes. Inspect and reuse > after rotations. I am on my 7th set of main tires. Only one flat on > main. It was a pinched tube after change. Most likely not the tubes fault. > Always try to give it a 24 hour leak check before flying when you can. Really good advice!!! > I also would recommend installing a new tube in the nose gear at > annual. Those get frayed and twisted more and I have experienced > several flats. None were fun. Also carry a spare tube on x country. > One more bit of unsolicited free advice. Don't install patched tubes > on the nose. Too much wiggling around, Can come loose. C'mon guys ... patching a tube isn't an option (IMHO) ..... for a lot of reasons ..... and the ones Denis (with one N) mentioned are big ones. Tough to balance a tire with a patch in it. Now things may be different with the Vans gear .... I don't have any experience with Vans stuff ..... yet. Linn > > Denis > On Oct 22, 2008, at 9:02 , mark phipps wrote: > >> At 200 hours its time for new tires and brakes on my 6A. Whats the >> opinion when changing tires should I replace the tubes as well. And >> if so what tubes are people having luck with that hold air pressure >> and need filling less often. >> >> Mark Phipps, RV6A, "Gypsy Spirit" 200 hours >> >> >> >> - >> >> * >> >> * >> >> >> * >> 3D============================================ >> href="3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >> 3D============================================ >> href="3D"http://forums.matronics.com"">http://forums.matronics.com >> 3D============================================ >> href="3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> 3D============================================ >> >> * > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 22, 2008
From: "Steven Reynard" <sreynard13(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?
Hi Doug, Could you put a couple of interior shots on your web site to show how it came out? Not that I have to worry about it for a long time. . . . :( Steve RV-7A, Empennage On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 8:49 AM, Doug Medema wrote: > One thing no one has mentioned is the question of what is your interior > going to be? > > I painted the whole interior on my -6A, and later decided to go with an > interior > package from Flightline Interiors. This includes fabric to cover most of > the interior > walls. It really makes for a much nicer look than just paint, and at very > little > extra weight. > > If I had planned on this from the start, I would have minimized the > painting in > my interior to just a primer. The fabric will cover up any scratches that > happen > during building and provides a more durable surface in the finished plane. > > Something to think about. > > Doug > RV-6A N276DM > http://home.comcast.net/~doug.medema/> > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Changing tires on RV6A
Date: Oct 22, 2008
Mark, Highly recommend the Michelin Airstop tubes. They hold the pressure much be tter and well worth the cost.
http://www.airmichelin.com/pdfs/GAAIRSTO.pdf Dale Ensing RV-6A 220 hours ----- Original Message ----- From: mark phipps To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 11:02 AM Subject: RV-List: Changing tires on RV6A At 200 hours its time for new tires and brakes on my 6A. Whats the opinion when changing tires should I replace the tubes as well. And if so w hat tubes are people having luck with that hold air pressure and need filli ng less often. Mark Phipps, RV6A, "Gypsy Spirit" 200 hours - 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 22, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?
Fabric or leather interior is certainly a nicer option than painting. But it seems like it would be *a lot* heavier than paint. Does anyone make an interior kit for the RV-8? I've seen them for the RV-6/7. I'm getting my seats from Classic Aero Designs in leather (which are beautiful, btw), but they don't seem to offer a interior package per say. Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N844RV (res) At 08:49 AM 10/22/2008 Wednesday, you wrote: >One thing no one has mentioned is the question of what is your interior going to be? > >I painted the whole interior on my -6A, and later decided to go with an interior >package from Flightline Interiors. This includes fabric to cover most of the interior >walls. It really makes for a much nicer look than just paint, and at very little >extra weight. > >If I had planned on this from the start, I would have minimized the painting in >my interior to just a primer. The fabric will cover up any scratches that happen >during building and provides a more durable surface in the finished plane. > >Something to think about. > >Doug >RV-6A N276DM ><http://home.comcast.net/~doug.medema/>http://home.comcast.net/~doug.medema/ > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry James" <larry(at)ncproto.com>
Subject: Interior Painting - Powdercoat
Date: Oct 22, 2008
I have two very different data points regarding powdercoating; 1) A local builder powdercoated the interior of his RV-8A. He did the powdercoating very early in his build and it came out pretty nice. At final W/B it ended up on the light side so evidently weight wasn't a big factor. Given this single experience powdercoating the interior may be a viable option. 2) A long time ago I powdercoated structural components (a-arms) in race cars. One cracked and was not found until after the ensuing crash. Consequently I never powdercoat anything any longer (except non-structural cosmetic things having nothing to do with cars, airplanes, and the like). And this is not meant as a dig in any way to the poster here that owns/runs a powdercoat shop ... good on ya from one small business owner to another !! Larry E. James Bellevue, WA Super Decathlon Rocket (still under construction) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 22, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: TruTrak "Failsafe Automatic Pitch Trim"...
At 05:37 AM 10/22/2008 Wednesday, you wrote: >--> RV8-List message posted by: "Don McNamara" > >Also, Matt, what's that gizmo attached to your pitch servo? I have a TT system as well, but don't have that rectangular thing with a wire for my control arm ... > >-- Don > N8RV The special linkage between the stepper motor and the pitch axis bellcrank is a strain gauge that provides feedback to another electric box from TruTrak that controls the elevator trim tab. When the strain gauge detects pressure on the elevator because of an out-of-trim condition, the device will automatically feed in trim to compensate and reduces the workload on the pitch axis servo. This function is wired in parallel with the normal electric trim button on the stick that the pilot uses so the trim input from the system can always be overridden. They call it their "Failsafe Automatic Pitch Trim". I believe that it only works in conjunction with the autopilot engaged, however. It would be cool if would also auto-trim for different power settings when the autopilot was disengaged. I've included a picture of the linkage below and more information from TruTrak's web site below as well. Seems like a really cool device. Here's a link to the Manual: http://www.trutrakap.com/documents/AutomaticPitchTrim.pdf Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N844RV (res) [] Emacs! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com>
Subject: Re: TruTrak "Failsafe Automatic Pitch Trim"...
Date: Oct 22, 2008
We installed TT automatic trim after flying for about 100 hours. Man, what a difference. I was a little put off at the cost but now I couldn't do without it. It made it a different airplane. It's definatley worthwhile. BTW, some servos have the strain gauge built in. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 3:33 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: TruTrak "Failsafe Automatic Pitch Trim"... At 05:37 AM 10/22/2008 Wednesday, you wrote: --> RV8-List message posted by: "Don McNamara" Also, Matt, what's that gizmo attached to your pitch servo? I have a TT system as well, but don't have that rectangular thing with a wire for my control arm ... -- Don N8RV The special linkage between the stepper motor and the pitch axis bellcrank is a strain gauge that provides feedback to another electric box from TruTrak that controls the elevator trim tab. When the strain gauge detects


September 25, 2008 - October 22, 2008

RV-Archive.digest.vol-ts