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RV-Archive.digest.vol-tu
November 29, 2008 - December 11, 2008

can control it. rick ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "sheldon barrett" <sheldonb(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: flat tire vs. wheel fairing
Date: Nov 29, 2008
I had my nose wheel tire go flat on my 6A also... Normal landing... pulled off the strip onto the taxi way... Flat!... Not sure just when it went flat... but couldn't move the plane for the tire was wedged against the pant... Local RV'ers came to the rescue.. Lucky I keep a spare tube onboard... Back in the air within an hour... Only thing I could see on the tube, was a very small pin hole... Not even sure if this was the cause.. for the tire/tube was fine for a year before... I did enlarge the opening some on the pant... Sheldon (RV6A 500 hrs) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 10:09 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: flat tire vs. wheel fairing > > RICHARD MILLER wrote: >> >> landing with a flat will do a hell of a lot more damage then just the >> fairing. can you say ground loop. while tires with leaks go dead flat >> in the hanger they don,t go dead flat in the air since there is no >> compression on the tire in flight. so normally you end up with a low >> pressure tire at the end of the flight.and can control it. >> >> rick > > In our local group we have seen two instances of RV-6A nose wheel tires > either going flat enroute or immediately on touchdown, hard to know which. > In both cases the tires could be pumped up enough to taxi the plane back > to the hangar. > > The RV nose gear tubes are strange animals and seem to go flat with no > warning and sometimes for hard to determine reasons. Nose rollers need to > be sure they carry a spare tube in the plane because the Lamb tube is hard > to find. > > Sam Buchanan > > http://thervjournal.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2008
From: tom sargent <sarg314(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: flat tire vs. wheel fairing
Sheldon: Did the tire going flat damage the wheel fairing? sheldon barrett wrote: > > I had my nose wheel tire go flat on my 6A also... Normal landing... > pulled off the strip onto the taxi way... Flat!... Not sure just when it > went flat... but couldn't move the plane for the tire was wedged against > the pant... Local RV'ers came to the rescue.. Lucky I keep a spare tube > onboard... Back in the air within an hour... Only thing I could see on > the tube, was a very small pin hole... Not even sure if this was the > cause.. for the tire/tube was fine for a year before... I did enlarge > the opening some on the pant... > Sheldon (RV6A 500 hrs) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "sheldon barrett" <sheldonb(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: flat tire vs. wheel fairing
Date: Nov 29, 2008
Just a little... in that the flat tire rubbed against the wheel fairing opening and gouged the edge some... otherwise, no other damage to the pant... The gouges gave me a clue as to where to enlarge the wheel opening in the pant... Sheldon ----- Original Message ----- From: "tom sargent" <sarg314(at)comcast.net> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 7:59 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: flat tire vs. wheel fairing > > Sheldon: > Did the tire going flat damage the wheel fairing? > > sheldon barrett wrote: >> >> >> I had my nose wheel tire go flat on my 6A also... Normal landing... >> pulled off the strip onto the taxi way... Flat!... Not sure just when it >> went flat... but couldn't move the plane for the tire was wedged against >> the pant... Local RV'ers came to the rescue.. Lucky I keep a spare tube >> onboard... Back in the air within an hour... Only thing I could see on >> the tube, was a very small pin hole... Not even sure if this was the >> cause.. for the tire/tube was fine for a year before... I did enlarge the >> opening some on the pant... >> Sheldon (RV6A 500 hrs) > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2008
From: Tomasz Korwel <tomasz(at)korwel.net>
Subject: Re: flat tire vs. wheel fairing
RICHARD MILLER wrote: > > landing with a flat will do a hell of a lot more damage then just the fairing. can you say ground loop. while tires with leaks go dead flat in the hanger they don,t go dead flat in the air since there is no compression on the tire in flight. so normally you end up with a low pressure tire at the end of the flight.and can control it. > > rick > > Actually they can go more than dead flat during flight. Dead flat is when inside the tube air pressure is equal to outside pressure. Which as we all know is different on the ground and up in the air. So it the tire develops leak it will equalize inside pressure to the one outside. If the plane sits on flat tires we also have change in volume, so actually if you jack up plane with dead flat tires, pressure inside such tube will be lower than outside due to increased volume. But on the other hand if you fly up there it can go down to let's say 7-8 psi absolute, then you land and suddenly outside pressure is 15.2 psi absolute - your tire now again has less pressure inside than it is outside - in fact much less than when it was sitting flat in the hangar. Tomasz ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2008
From: dan(at)rdan.com
Subject: Brake line tubing flaring
I went down to the local hardware shop and bought their best flaring tool t o do the aluminum brake lines, is this the correct tool? the ridges it leav es in the tubing will not let the sleeve slide up, I had to take a file and buffer to it to get them out , I tried again same results,- is there a b etter tool? and do the bending coils I saw work good? - ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Brake line tubing flaring
Date: Nov 30, 2008
No, No, NO! Automotive flaring tools create 45 degree flares. Aviation flareing tools create and aviation AN hardware require 37.5 degree flares. Bruce <http://www.glasair.org/> www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dan(at)rdan.com Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 12:49 AM Subject: RV-List: Brake line tubing flaring I went down to the local hardware shop and bought their best flaring tool to do the aluminum brake lines, is this the correct tool? the ridges it leaves in the tubing will not let the sleeve slide up, I had to take a file and buffer to it to get them out , I tried again same results, is there a better tool? and do the bending coils I saw work good? 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Last "Official" Day Of The List Fund Raiser!
Dear Listers, Its November 30th and that means three things:.. 1) Today I am now officially 45 years old... 2) It marks that last "official" day of this year's List Fund Raiser! 3) Its the last day I will be bugging everyone for a whole year! If you use the Lists and enjoy the content and the no-advertising, no-spam, and no-censorship way in which they're run, please make a Contribution today to support their continued operation and upkeep. Your $20 or $30 goes a long way to keep the List bills paid. I will be posting the List of Contributors next week so make sure your name is on it! Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution so far this year! It is greatly appreciated. http://www.matronics.com/contribution Best regards, Matt Dralle Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Brake line tubing flaring
Date: Nov 30, 2008
Throw away or cut off any flair you have made in aluminum tubing with the "automobile" type flaring tube. They flair the tubing at a 45 deg angle. All aircraft flairs are 37.5 degrees and all of your aircraft AN- fluid fittings have 37 deg cones. Your flairs simply will not seal effectively and will eventually fail. Also never take a file to smooth out the ridges on aluminum tubing; you create small stress points where the file nicks the tubing leading to stress risers and eventually failure. It does not take much abuse of aluminum tubing to cause it to fail - I had an aircraft wheel fire due to a ruptured aluminum brake line which sprayed brake fluid on the hot rotor disc which ignited. Fortunately, a quick thinking nephew of mine found an extinguisher and put it out before serious damage occurred. Go out and buy or borrow a 37 deg aircraft flaring tube - if you belong to an EAA chapter, there are probably several members who have one and will be willing to loan it out. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com <http://www.andersonee.com/> http://www.andersonee.com <http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dan(at)rdan.com Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 12:49 AM Subject: RV-List: Brake line tubing flaring I went down to the local hardware shop and bought their best flaring tool to do the aluminum brake lines, is this the correct tool? the ridges it leaves in the tubing will not let the sleeve slide up, I had to take a file and buffer to it to get them out , I tried again same results, is there a better tool? and do the bending coils I saw work good? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2008
From: Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Brake line tubing flaring
Dan, As others have stated, you need an aviation 37 degree flaring tool. I recommend getting the Harbor Freight clone of the Imperial Eastman tubing bender for doing you bends. I paid about $5 for mine (it was on sale at HF). See http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=3755 Charlie Kuss --- On Sun, 11/30/08, dan(at)rdan.com wrote: > From: dan(at)rdan.com <dan(at)rdan.com> > Subject: RV-List: Brake line tubing flaring > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Sunday, November 30, 2008, 12:48 AM > I went down to the local hardware shop and bought their best > flaring tool to do the aluminum brake lines, is this the > correct tool? the ridges it leaves in the tubing will not > let the sleeve slide up, I had to take a file and buffer to > it to get them out , I tried again same results, is there > a better tool? > and do the bending coils I saw work good? > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2008
From: bert murillo <robertrv607(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Brake line tubing flaring
they should know better.. don't they ever read the instruction manual? robert --- On Sun, 11/30/08, Bruce Gray wrote: > From: Bruce Gray <Bruce(at)glasair.org> > Subject: RE: RV-List: Brake line tubing flaring > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Sunday, November 30, 2008, 1:23 AM > No, No, NO! Automotive flaring tools create 45 degree > flares. Aviation > flareing tools create and aviation AN hardware require 37.5 > degree flares. > > > > Bruce > > <http://www.glasair.org/> www.Glasair.org > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > dan(at)rdan.com > Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 12:49 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Brake line tubing flaring > > > > I went down to the local hardware shop and bought their > best flaring tool to > do the aluminum brake lines, is this the correct tool? the > ridges it leaves > in the tubing will not let the sleeve slide up, I had to > take a file and > buffer to it to get them out , I tried again same results, > is there a > better tool? > and do the bending coils I saw work good? > > > > > > 3D==========3 > D======================== > ========= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3D==========3 > D======================== > ========= > > > > > > > > > > 3D==========3 > D======================== > ========= > > > > > > > 3D==========3 > D======================== > ========= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dean Van Winkle" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.org>
Subject: Re: Brake line tubing flaring
Date: Nov 30, 2008
Dan I am almost 99% certain that what they sold you is an automotive 45 degree flaring tool, which is the wrong one. What you need is a 37 degree aircraft flaring tool. These are available from Avery, Spruce, and most of the other aviation industry suppliers. Dean Van Winkle dvanwinkle(at)royell.org Slooowbuild RV-9A ----- Original Message ----- From: dan(at)rdan.com To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 11:48 PM Subject: RV-List: Brake line tubing flaring I went down to the local hardware shop and bought their best flaring tool to do the aluminum brake lines, is this the correct tool? the ridges it leaves in the tubing will not let the sleeve slide up, I had to take a file and buffer to it to get them out , I tried again same results, is there a better tool? and do the bending coils I saw work good? 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2008
From: dan(at)rdan.com
Subject: Re: Brake line tubing flaring
Thanks for all the replys I'm just learning,--I now have the correct one on order, This is why I'm a paid subscriber Dan --- On Sat, 11/29/08, Dean Van Winkle wrote: From: Dean Van Winkle <dvanwinkle(at)royell.org> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brake line tubing flaring Date: Saturday, November 29, 2008, 10:45 PM -Dan - I am almost 99% certain that what they sold you- is an automotive 45 degr ee flaring tool, which is the wrong one.- What you need is a 37 degree ai rcraft flaring tool. These are available from Avery, Spruce, and most of th e other aviation industry suppliers. - Dean Van Winkle dvanwinkle(at)royell.org--- Slooowbuild RV-9A ----- Original Message ----- From: dan(at)rdan.com Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 11:48 PM Subject: RV-List: Brake line tubing flaring I went down to the local hardware shop and bought their best flaring tool t o do the aluminum brake lines, is this the correct tool? the ridges it leav es in the tubing will not let the sleeve slide up, I had to take a file and buffer to it to get them out , I tried again same results,- is there a b etter tool? and do the bending coils I saw work good? - 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com /contribution 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"'>http://www.matron3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2008
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Pitot testing
Folks, I have been doing my Pitot testing. I have built a manometer per the EAA chapter 1000 instructions and using the MicroEncoder chart and Kevin Horton's spreadsheet. Here are some results: At lower airspeed numbers, the manometer readings are exact. As the airspeed numbers rise, the manometer readings deviate from the numbers on the spreadsheet that I have (thanks Kevin Horton) to the low side - meaning the manometer reading is lower than specified for a given airspeed indication...also meaning that the airspeed would indicate an amount higher than actual for the correct manometer reading. All are within the 3% or 5kts specified by FAR 23.1323. Also, I am experiencing a very slow bleed-down - on the order of 4 to 7 minutes to lose 100kts of airspeed at 0035'MSL. The only way I found this was walking away to record my numbers in the computer after I was done - when I came back it was lower.....did not see it between tests while I was doing it though. I've looked through FAR 23.1323 - Airspeed indicating system. It does not have anything in it regarding a leak tolerance...unlike the FAR 23.1325 - Static pressure system, which allows 100fpm @ 1000' AGL indicated. What do folks use for a leakdown tolerance? Or is this good enough to not matter? Thanks, Ralph Capen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Knicholas2(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 02, 2008
Subject: Should I re-pitch my prop?
My RV9 has the recommended fix pitch prop on my 150 HP Lycoming 0-320 engine. It has plenty of power and climb but I would like a little more speed than the current 135-140 kt cruise. I am considering having the prop re-pitched for more speed. What do others think? Good idea or bad? How much more should I have the pitch increased? Thanks in advance for input. Kim Nicholas RV9A Auburn, WA **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Should I re-pitch my prop?
From: Michael W Stewart <mike.stewart(at)us.ibm.com>
Date: Dec 02, 2008
we need more info. current prop type, manufacturer size and pitch. current WOT RPM at 8k' Current cruise speed and RPM. Current climb RPM, IAS and FPM altitude start Mike Knicholas2(at)aol.co m Sent by: To owner-rv-list-ser rv-list(at)matronics.com ver(at)matronics.com cc Subj ect 12/02/2008 02:38 RV-List: Should I re-pitch my pr op? PM Please respond to rv-list@matronics .com My RV9 has the recommended fix pitch prop on my 150 HP Lycoming 0-320 engine. It has plenty of power and climb but I would like a little mor e speed than the current 135-140 kt cruise. I am considering having the prop re-pitched for more speed. What do others think? Good idea or bad? How much more should I have t he pitch increased? Thanks in advance for input. Kim Nicholas RV9A Auburn, WA Life should be ea&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Tr y the NEW AOL.com. ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2008
From: "David Leonard" <wdleonard(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Should I re-pitch my prop?
That all depends on what RPM you are showing in climb and cruise and how much throttle you have available in cruise. You are bounded by 2 extremes: the ultimate climb prop, and the ultimate cruise prop. The ultimate climb prop will achieve full rated engine RPM in climb (at full throttle) but you will have to throttle back significantly in cruise to avoid exceeding redline. The ultimate cruise prop will achieve full rated engine RPM in level flight and full throttle but your climbout will be at less than full RPM (therefore, less than max power). You could actually go beyond cruise prop and have a 'descent prop' where you can actually descend slightly at full power and not exceed redline RPM. That will decrease your max cruise speed somewhat (and really hurt climb rate) but at least full throttle cruise will be at a more comfortable economy cruise RPM. Where you fall in that range is a matter of personal preference. I actually have 'descent prop' and really like it, but my turbo allows me to make up for what would otherwise be poor climb performance. For the specifics of how much pitch change will take you from one type of prop to the next, you need to talk to the maker of the prop and your re-pitching shop. David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 11:38 AM, wrote: > > > My RV9 has the recommended fix pitch prop on my 150 HP Lycoming 0-320 > engine. It has plenty of power and climb but I would like a little more > speed than the current 135-140 kt cruise. > > I am considering having the prop re-pitched for more speed. > What do others think? Good idea or bad? How much more should I have the > pitch increased? > > Thanks in advance for input. > > Kim Nicholas > RV9A > Auburn, WA > > > ------------------------------ > Life should be ea&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the > NEW AOL.com. > > * > > - ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Hilditch" <wmjack1(at)t3cs.net>
Subject: Should I re-pitch my prop?
Date: Dec 02, 2008
If memory serves me right, didn't Van's recommend against re-pitching metal props taken from spam-cans? I poked around a bit and found the following on Van's site. "The Sensenich metal propellers we sell were developed specifically for the RV series and are the ONLY fixed pitch metal propellers approved by Van's Aircraft Inc. for use on RV aircraft. " "Propellers from production aircraft are not suitable, and unfortunate experience has shown that modified production propellers can fail without warning with deadly consequences." Full article can be found at: http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1228254533-26-123 <http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1228254533-26-123&browse props&product=sen-prop> &browse=props&product=sen-prop Jack Hilditch RV-9A ( R ) project Manchester, CT _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Leonard Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 3:20 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Should I re-pitch my prop? That all depends on what RPM you are showing in climb and cruise and how much throttle you have available in cruise. You are bounded by 2 extremes: the ultimate climb prop, and the ultimate cruise prop. The ultimate climb prop will achieve full rated engine RPM in climb (at full throttle) but you will have to throttle back significantly in cruise to avoid exceeding redline. The ultimate cruise prop will achieve full rated engine RPM in level flight and full throttle but your climbout will be at less than full RPM (therefore, less than max power). You could actually go beyond cruise prop and have a 'descent prop' where you can actually descend slightly at full power and not exceed redline RPM. That will decrease your max cruise speed somewhat (and really hurt climb rate) but at least full throttle cruise will be at a more comfortable economy cruise RPM. Where you fall in that range is a matter of personal preference. I actually have 'descent prop' and really like it, but my turbo allows me to make up for what would otherwise be poor climb performance. For the specifics of how much pitch change will take you from one type of prop to the next, you need to talk to the maker of the prop and your re-pitching shop. David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 11:38 AM, wrote: My RV9 has the recommended fix pitch prop on my 150 HP Lycoming 0-320 engine. It has plenty of power and climb but I would like a little more speed than the current 135-140 kt cruise. I am considering having the prop re-pitched for more speed. What do others think? Good idea or bad? How much more should I have the pitch increased? Thanks in advance for input. Kim Nicholas RV9A Auburn, WA _____ Life should be ea&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com. - ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2008
From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Should I re-pitch my prop?
From a practical standpoint there shouldn't be any reason why a 'spam can' prop from the same engine won't work on Van's airplanes. What he says about failures is true and should be part of your decision on where your prop comes from. A prop can only be pitched and re-pitched so many inches total, and then it's junk. When a prop is repitched, the change is stamped on the hub. Or at least it should be. I think this is the root of Van's warning. Documentation can be lacking so be careful. Without an accurate prop log, which wasn't 'required' when I began my road to the poorhouse, you can't be sure of the hours it has on it, whether it was straightened after a slight prop strike or not ..... see where I'm going on this??? Van likes Sensenich props, and that's the only ones he's 'tested' on his birds .... hence the word 'approved' in his warning. A McCauley may be better or worse than the Sensenich .... only testing would tell. Linn Jack Hilditch wrote: > > If memory serves me right, didnt Vans recommend against re-pitching > metal props taken from spam-cans? I poked around a bit and found the > following on Vans site. > > The Sensenich metal propellers we sell were developed specifically > for the RV series and are the ONLY fixed pitch metal propellers > approved by Van's Aircraft Inc. for use on RV aircraft. > > Propellers from production aircraft are not suitable, and unfortunate > experience has shown that modified production propellers can fail > without warning with deadly consequences. > > Full article can be found at: > > http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1228254533-26-123&browse=props&product=sen-prop > <http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1228254533-26-123&browse=props&product=sen-prop> > > Jack Hilditch > > RV-9A ( R ) project > > Manchester, CT > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ** > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Pitot testing
Date: Dec 02, 2008
On 2-Dec-08, at 14:29 , Ralph E. Capen wrote: > > > I have been doing my Pitot testing. I have built a manometer per > the EAA chapter 1000 instructions and using the MicroEncoder chart > and Kevin Horton's spreadsheet. > > Here are some results: > > At lower airspeed numbers, the manometer readings are exact. As the > airspeed numbers rise, the manometer readings deviate from the > numbers on the spreadsheet that I have (thanks Kevin Horton) to the > low side - meaning the manometer reading is lower than specified for > a given airspeed indication...also meaning that the airspeed would > indicate an amount higher than actual for the correct manometer > reading. All are within the 3% or 5kts specified by FAR 23.1323. > > Also, I am experiencing a very slow bleed-down - on the order of 4 > to 7 minutes to lose 100kts of airspeed at 0035'MSL. The only way I > found this was walking away to record my numbers in the computer > after I was done - when I came back it was lower.....did not see it > between tests while I was doing it though. > > I've looked through FAR 23.1323 - Airspeed indicating system. It > does not have anything in it regarding a leak tolerance...unlike the > FAR 23.1325 - Static pressure system, which allows 100fpm @ 1000' > AGL indicated. What do folks use for a leakdown tolerance? Or is > this good enough to not matter? If a pitot system has no leaks, there is no air moving in it if you are at a constant airspeed. The pressure will be the same everywhere in the pitot system - i.e. the pressure at the entrance to the ASI will be the same as the pressure at the pitot tube. If there is a leak in the system, air must continually flow from the pitot tube to the leak to replenish the air lost through the leak. Air will only flow if there is a pressure differential to push it, so the pressure at the leak has to be lower than the pressure at the pitot tube. But, if the leak is small, the speed at which the air will be flowing will be small, and the pressure differential required to push the air at that rate will be small. Thus the effect of a very small leak is negligible. The closer a leak is to the pitot entrance, the less significant it is, as the pressure loss is proportional to the length of tube that has air flowing it it. No air is flowing in the part of the system between the leak and the ASI, so no further pressure loss is occurring there. A leak becomes a problem if it is big enough so there is an appreciable pressure loss required to push the air through the system from the pitot tube to the leak. Your leak is very small, so it probably isn't causing an accuracy problem now. But, it is a sign of a flaw in your system somewhere, and I would wonder whether it will further degrade such that someday it becomes a problem. If you don't find and fix it, I would do some sort of periodic check to ensure that it hasn't gotten worse. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (Grounded) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2008
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Should I re-pitch my prop?
linn Walters wrote: > > From a practical standpoint there shouldn't be any reason why a 'spam > can' prop from the same engine won't work on Van's airplanes. The reason very few fixed-pitch "spam can props" are practical for an RV is because the speedy RV needs far more pitch than a C172 or similar aircraft. The RV Sensenich props are steeply pitched, so much so that special templates are required for a prop shop to measure the pitch. The "big lever" method of repitching an RV prop is very difficult due to the thick blade root. A return to Sensenich for repitch on their hydraulic rig is the best way to go for our props. The gory details of the repitching of my Sensenich by a local prop shop: http://thervjournal.com/fairings.htm#repitch Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Charles Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com>
Subject: Pitot testing
Date: Dec 03, 2008
I have not done manometer tests on my flying RV-6A, but I have done leak down tests on both the static and pitot system. No leaks in either system. I have done airspeed calibration runs in the air using GPS ground speed while flying North, South, East and West and averaging the results. I run the speed tests at various altitudes and temperatures and calculated the True Airspeed in each case. All the test runs had similar results. At slow speeds (below 80 KTAS) my airspeed indicator is accurate to within one knot. At moderate speeds (120-130 KTAS) my airspeed reads four to five knots fast. At high speeds, (165 KTAS) the error grows to about seven knots. I have one of Van's airspeed indicators and it has no adjustment capability. I find it interesting that Ralph's manometer tests also show a higher than actual airspeed indication at high speeds. I am at a loss as to why this happens and wonder if others have noticed similar errors. Is this typical of Van's airspeed instruments? An acquaintance with an RV-9 and a Dynon system says his airspeed indications are very accurate at all speeds and altitudes. Inquiring minds want to know. Charlie Brame RV-6A N11CB San Antonio ----------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> Subject: RV-List: Pitot testing Folks, I have been doing my Pitot testing. I have built a manometer per the EAA chapter 1000 instructions and using the MicroEncoder chart and Kevin Horton's spreadsheet. Here are some results: At lower airspeed numbers, the manometer readings are exact. As the airspeed numbers rise, the manometer readings deviate from the numbers on the spreadsheet that I have (thanks Kevin Horton) to the low side - meaning the manometer reading is lower than specified for a given airspeed indication...also meaning that the airspeed would indicate an amount higher than actual for the correct manometer reading. All are within the 3% or 5kts specified by FAR 23.1323. Also, I am experiencing a very slow bleed-down - on the order of 4 to 7 minutes to lose 100kts of airspeed at 0035'MSL. The only way I found this was walking away to record my numbers in the computer after I was done - when I came back it was lower.....did not see it between tests while I was doing it though. I've looked through FAR 23.1323 - Airspeed indicating system. It does not have anything in it regarding a leak tolerance...unlike the FAR 23.1325 - Static pressure system, which allows 100fpm @ 1000' AGL indicated. What do folks use for a leakdown tolerance? Or is this good enough to not matter? Thanks, Ralph Capen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2008
Subject: Pitot testing
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Chuck, I have a single scale air speed indicator. I originally had one of Van's multi reading a/s indicator but found it had to much information on the dial. So, since I do all things in Knots and Nautical miles, I bought an indicator that reads only in Knots. I don't care to convert back and forth with speeds. Keep it simple. My EFIS gives me TAS, GS, and IAS (all in Knots). Almost more than I need to know. My testing of the system for pressure and static required me to "glue" all the fittings that are not directly required for instrument removal. I used "Goop" adhesive available at the aviation section at the Home despot. Great stuff. It also holds my static line in places in the cockpit where it droops a bit. It also holds my wiring under my "arm rest" on the copilot side for the ELT panel indicator. Jim ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw1aBnhEU3aOrbWSIUF3XQVpdY6QPAg6OUuYVjsp95bj3DmlV/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Pitot testing
Date: Dec 03, 2008
The average of runs in four cardinal directions is only equal to the TAS if the wind is calm. The error is small if the wind speed is low, but the error can be large if the wind speed is large. If you are going to use this method, pay attention to how much the ground speed varies on the four runs. If the four ground speeds are not too different, then the winds are low, and it is safe to use the average of the four runs. At 150 kt, TAS, if the difference between the highest and lowest ground is less than 25 kt, then the average of the four ground speeds should be within a half kt of the TAS. If the difference between the highest and lowest ground speeds is 35 kt, the error could be as high as 1 kt. If the ground speeds are quite different, then it would be more accurate to use a method that accounts for the effect of wind, such as the four leg option of the NTPS spreadsheet. http://www.ntps.edu/Files/GPS%20PEC.XLS Kevin Horton On 3-Dec-08, at 11:50 , Charles Brame wrote: > I have not done manometer tests on my flying RV-6A, but I have done > leak down tests on both the static and pitot system. No leaks in > either system. > > I have done airspeed calibration runs in the air using GPS ground > speed while flying North, South, East and West and averaging the > results. I run the speed tests at various altitudes and temperatures > and calculated the True Airspeed in each case. All the test runs had > similar results. At slow speeds (below 80 KTAS) my airspeed > indicator is accurate to within one knot. At moderate speeds > (120-130 KTAS) my airspeed reads four to five knots fast. At high > speeds, (165 KTAS) the error grows to about seven knots. I have one > of Van's airspeed indicators and it has no adjustment capability. > > I find it interesting that Ralph's manometer tests also show a > higher than actual airspeed indication at high speeds. I am at a > loss as to why this happens and wonder if others have noticed > similar errors. > > Is this typical of Van's airspeed instruments? An acquaintance with > an RV-9 and a Dynon system says his airspeed indications are very > accurate at all speeds and altitudes. > > Inquiring minds want to know. > > Charlie Brame > RV-6A N11CB > San Antonio > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> > Subject: RV-List: Pitot testing > > > Folks, > > I have been doing my Pitot testing. I have built a manometer per > the EAA chapter > 1000 instructions and using the MicroEncoder chart and Kevin > Horton's spreadsheet. > > Here are some results: > > At lower airspeed numbers, the manometer readings are exact. As the > airspeed numbers > rise, the manometer readings deviate from the numbers on the > spreadsheet > that I have (thanks Kevin Horton) to the low side - meaning the > manometer reading > is lower than specified for a given airspeed indication...also > meaning that > the airspeed would indicate an amount higher than actual for the > correct manometer > reading. All are within the 3% or 5kts specified by FAR 23.1323. > > Also, I am experiencing a very slow bleed-down - on the order of 4 > to 7 minutes > to lose 100kts of airspeed at 0035'MSL. The only way I found this > was walking > away to record my numbers in the computer after I was done - when I > came back > it was lower.....did not see it between tests while I was doing it > though. > > I've looked through FAR 23.1323 - Airspeed indicating system. It > does not have > anything in it regarding a leak tolerance...unlike the FAR 23.1325 - > Static pressure > system, which allows 100fpm @ 1000' AGL indicated. What do folks use > for a leakdown tolerance? Or is this good enough to not matter? > > Thanks, > Ralph Capen > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2008
From: bert murillo <robertrv607(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Nedd info
Hi: I need to buy one of the blocks I cannot remember the technical name Hw...something, the white material block, that holds the cannopy down, on the rear sides, for slider.. I know I can order it from Vans, but you what the cost will be... I recently order a few bolts I needed, the total cost of the items was $11.80..the so called shipping and Handling was almost $10.00,,, a rip off.. Does any one knows where I can buy it, besides Van's?? I never understand , how the shipping cost you more than the items you buy.... Thanks for any info on this... Bert rv6a ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Walter" <dale1rv6(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Nedd info
Date: Dec 03, 2008
they should know better.. don't they ever read the instruction manual? Robert I have always said: Ignorance and stupidity, are not the privilege,or peopole on third world countries. It is abounding in the USA, not only on people with no highschool education, but in the upper ladder, even the President of the US, has shown stupidity many times... NO sense on trying to convince people, on something they already have created in their minds to be true... is a waste of time. robert -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bert murillo Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 8:26 PM Subject: RV-List: Nedd info Hi: I need to buy one of the blocks I cannot remember the technical name Hw...something, the white material block, that holds the cannopy down, on the rear sides, for slider.. I know I can order it from Vans, but you what the cost will be... I recently order a few bolts I needed, the total cost of the items was $11.80..the so called shipping and Handling was almost $10.00,,, a rip off.. Does any one knows where I can buy it, besides Van's?? I never understand , how the shipping cost you more than the items you buy.... Thanks for any info on this... Bert rv6a ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JAMES BOWEN <jabowenjr(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Nedd info
Date: Dec 03, 2008
Isn't the purpose of this list to help as many builders as possible? The di ssemination of information to those who request it. It's kind of what build s this little community of ours. I thought the only dumb question was the o ne not asked............ Jim > From: dale1rv6(at)comcast.net> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: RE: RV-Li st: Nedd info> Date: Wed=2C 3 Dec 2008 20:44:42 -0500> > --> RV-List messag e posted by: "Dale Walter" dale1rv6(at)comcast.net > > --> RV-List message pos ted by: bert murillo > > they should know better.. d on't they ever read the instruction manual?> Robert> > I have always said: Ignorance and stupidity=2C are not the privilege=2Cor> peopole on third wor ld countries. It is abounding in the USA=2C not only on> people with no hig hschool education=2C but in the upper ladder=2C even the> President of the US=2C has shown stupidity many times...> > NO sense on trying to convince p eople=2C on something they already have> created in their minds to be true. .. is a waste of time.> > robert> > -----Original Message-----> From: owner -rv-list-server(at)matronics.com> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bert murillo> Sent: Wednesday=2C December 03=2C 2008 8:26 PM> ge posted by: bert murillo > > Hi:> > I need to buy one of the blocks I cannot remember the technical> name Hw...something=2C t he white material block=2C that holds the> cannopy down=2C on the rear side s=2C for slider..> > I know I can order it from Vans=2C but you what the co st will be...> I recently order a few bolts I needed=2C the total cost of t he> items was $11.80..the so called shipping and Handling was almost> $10.0 0=2C=2C=2C a rip off..> > Does any one knows where I can buy it=2C besides Van's??> > I never understand =2C how the shipping cost you more than the i tems> you buy....> > Thanks for any info on this...> > > Bert> > rv6a> > > =================> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2008
From: "Randy Hooper" <krhooper(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Nedd info
Bert, I think you are talking about UHMW, Ultra High Molecular Weight material. Here in Nashville I have found it at Nashville Rubber and Gasket. Maybe you have a similar supplier near you. Randy Hooper On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 7:26 PM, bert murillo wrote: > > Hi: > > I need to buy one of the blocks I cannot remember the technical > name Hw...something, the white material block, that holds the > cannopy down, on the rear sides, for slider.. > > I know I can order it from Vans, but you what the cost will be... > I recently order a few bolts I needed, the total cost of the > items was $11.80..the so called shipping and Handling was almost > $10.00,,, a rip off.. > > Does any one knows where I can buy it, besides Van's?? > > I never understand , how the shipping cost you more than the items > you buy.... > > Thanks for any info on this... > > > Bert > > rv6a > > -- Randy Hooper ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2008
From: MikeNellis <mike(at)bmnellis.com>
Subject: Re: Nedd info
Is it just me or is the following quoted paragraph an oxymoron? The writer states, "I have always said........" and then goes on to deliver a paragraph filled with punctuation and grammar mistakes. It just proves the validity of his statement by using himself as an example. Come on, if you're going to discuss ignorance and stupidity at least proof your comments before sending them. Mike > > > they should know better.. don't they ever read the instruction manual? > Robert > > I have always said: Ignorance and stupidity, are not the privilege,or > peopole on third world countries. It is abounding in the USA, not only on > people with no highschool education, but in the upper ladder, even the > President of the US, has shown stupidity many times... > > NO sense on trying to convince people, on something they already have > created in their minds to be true... is a waste of time. > > robert > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Deene Ogden " <deene(at)austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Nedd info
Date: Dec 04, 2008
Avery tools sells this material (UHMW) in small blocks. Deene Ogden ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2008
From: David Nelson <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Nedd info
Hi Bert, I got my UHMW from a plastics distributor in town. I stopped by and and they allowed me to poke around their scrap bin. Regards, /\/elson On Wed, 3 Dec 2008, bert murillo wrote: > > Hi: > > I need to buy one of the blocks I cannot remember the technical > name Hw...something, the white material block, that holds the > cannopy down, on the rear sides, for slider.. > > I know I can order it from Vans, but you what the cost will be... > I recently order a few bolts I needed, the total cost of the > items was $11.80..the so called shipping and Handling was almost > $10.00,,, a rip off.. > > Does any one knows where I can buy it, besides Van's?? > > I never understand , how the shipping cost you more than the items > you buy.... > > Thanks for any info on this... > > > Bert > > rv6a > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2008
From: dan(at)rdan.com
Subject: Re: Nedd info
Tap plastics http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/category.php?bid=24 has some HDPE (Rigid High-Density Polyethylene probably not the same stuff - as HUMW but is is great to work with for making odd things, I have a store near me and have used this on aviation --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Deene Ogden wrote: From: Deene Ogden <deene(at)austin.rr.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Nedd info Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 3:28 AM Avery tools sells this material (UHMW) in small blocks=85 - Deene Ogden ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2008
From: Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com>
Subject: Re: Nedd info
On Thu, 4 Dec 2008, dan(at)rdan.com wrote: > Tap plastics > http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/category.php?bid=24 > has some HDPE (Rigid High-Density Polyethylene probably not the same > stuff- as HUMW > but is is great to work with for making odd things, > I have a store near me and have used this on aviation > Another source of cheap, hard plastic is plastic cutting boards. If you find it on sale, can be quite cheap. Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) RV-8A 80091 Fitting fuel vent lines. 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying

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Date: Dec 04, 2008
From: bert murillo <robertrv607(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wing Walk Material
yES dAVE,;i WAS LOOKING AT THAT, BUT MY GOSH, THEY WANTED A TOTAL OF $28.00 FOR JUST ONE PIECE....CANNOT AFFORD THAT,, IS CRAZY.... BERT --- On Sat, 11/22/08, David Burnham wrote: > From: David Burnham <daverv6a(at)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Walk Material > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 12:54 PM > Robin, I used Ray Allen's wing walk material - very > happy with it. > > http://www.rayallencompany.com/index.html > > Dave Burnham > N64FN > > On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Robin Marks > wrote: > > Marks" > > > > Dear List, > > It's time to think about wing walk > material. I could go with the > > standard Vans RV-10 material or the (near) clear wing > walk material > > offered by ACS. Are there any other (good) options > available that are > > visually appealing and functional or does anyone have > a preference on > > one material over another? > > > > Thanks, > > Robin > > > > RV-4 Sold > > RV-6A 465 Hours > > RV-10 30 hours > > RV-8A Next > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2008
From: bert murillo <robertrv607(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wing Walk Material
Randy: thanks for the info. I was trying to order this item, but I cannot get thru, gave all the information about credit cart etc.. but i do not know if it went thru... I cnnot find either their address or telephone number,..whey the do not list that on their web page, it should be the first thing to do... in my opinion. thanks for any info you can give me...I need to contact them, bert --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Randy Hooper wrote: > From: Randy Hooper <krhooper(at)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Walk Material > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 4:19 PM > I am getting ready to order the wing walk material from > flyboyaccessories.com. From the description it seems to be > a better option. > > Randy Hooper > > On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 11:54 AM, David Burnham > wrote: > > > Robin, I used Ray Allen's wing walk material - > very happy with it. > > > > http://www.rayallencompany.com/index.html > > > > Dave Burnham > > N64FN > > > > On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Robin Marks > wrote: > > > Marks" > >> > >> Dear List, > >> It's time to think about wing walk > material. I could go with the > >> standard Vans RV-10 material or the (near) clear > wing walk material > >> offered by ACS. Are there any other (good) options > available that are > >> visually appealing and functional or does anyone > have a preference on > >> one material over another? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Robin > >> > >> RV-4 Sold > >> RV-6A 465 Hours > >> RV-10 30 hours > >> RV-8A Next > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > * > > > > > > > > > -- > Randy Hooper ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2008
From: bert murillo <robertrv607(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: boysaccessories info.
Hi: I am trying to contact the Flyboysaccessories, but I do not see their phone no. or e mail address on their web page. Trying to order some wingwalk.... Any one has their tel. no.? thanks bert ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Nedd info
Date: Dec 04, 2008
From: "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Tap Plastics "Scrap & Remnant" bin sells for $0.50 per pound. I visit occasionally and pick up lots of pieces that will do the job for pennies on the dollar. The bin's scraps are constantly changing. John Cox -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Huffaker Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:54 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Nedd info On Thu, 4 Dec 2008, dan(at)rdan.com wrote: > Tap plastics > http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/category.php?bid=24 > has some HDPE (Rigid High-Density Polyethylene probably not the same > stuff as HUMW > but is is great to work with for making odd things, > I have a store near me and have used this on aviation > Another source of cheap, hard plastic is plastic cutting boards. If you find it on sale, can be quite cheap. Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) RV-8A 80091 Fitting fuel vent lines. 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying

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Date: Dec 04, 2008
From: "Randy Hooper" <krhooper(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: boysaccessories info.
Bert, you can reach Vince @ 812-464-1839 or 812-985-7309. He is a great guy to work with. If he doesn't answer, he will get right back to you. Randy Hooper On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 10:36 AM, bert murillo wrote: > > Hi: > > I am trying to contact the Flyboysaccessories, but I do not see their > phone no. or e mail address on their web page. > > Trying to order some wingwalk.... > > Any one has their tel. no.? > > thanks > > bert > > -- Randy Hooper ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2008
From: "David Burnham" <daverv6a(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Wing Walk Material
Hi Bert - expensive but looks good., also sticks well. Isn't rough like some of others. They may send you a sample to look at. If not I have some I could send - bought an extra sheet for steps, other products I'd tried came off Dave On 12/4/08, bert murillo wrote: > > yES dAVE,;i WAS LOOKING AT THAT, BUT MY GOSH, THEY WANTED A TOTAL OF $28.00 > FOR JUST ONE PIECE....CANNOT AFFORD THAT,, IS CRAZY.... > > BERT > --- On Sat, 11/22/08, David Burnham wrote: > >> From: David Burnham <daverv6a(at)gmail.com> >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Walk Material >> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >> Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 12:54 PM >> Robin, I used Ray Allen's wing walk material - very >> happy with it. >> >> http://www.rayallencompany.com/index.html >> >> Dave Burnham >> N64FN >> >> On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Robin Marks >> wrote: >> >> Marks" >> > >> > Dear List, >> > It's time to think about wing walk >> material. I could go with the >> > standard Vans RV-10 material or the (near) clear wing >> walk material >> > offered by ACS. Are there any other (good) options >> available that are >> > visually appealing and functional or does anyone have >> a preference on >> > one material over another? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Robin >> > >> > RV-4 Sold >> > RV-6A 465 Hours >> > RV-10 30 hours >> > RV-8A Next >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > -- Sent from Google Mail for mobile | mobile.google.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2008
From: "J Riffel" <riffeljl(at)gmail.com>
Subject: IO-360-B Power Chart?
Does ANYONE have (or know where I can find) a SIMPLE power chart for the Lycoming/Superior IO-360 B series engine? I need something that allows me to fill-in a chart similar to this For 55% 2300 2400 2500 RPM (99hp) map map map sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n ... For 65% 2300 2400 2500 RPM (117hp) map map map sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n ... For 75% 2300 2400 2500 RPM (135hp) map map map sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n ... I can read the the Goofy Lycoming Chart ("Figure 3-23 Sea Level and Altitude Performance - IO-360-B1A"). I've been studying it for DAYS. But I defy anyone to use that chart to tell me within 20 minutes what RPM, MAP to use at 5,000' to get 65% power. The chart is built to derive HP at an altitude if you know RPM and MP. Instead I need a table for my POH so I can run at a %HP if I've been assigned an altitude. I've sent messages to both Lycoming and Superior and they just think I can't read their table. Thanks in Advance. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2008
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: IO-360-B Power Chart?
Simple. Add MAP and rpm/100. total=50~75%, =47~65%, =44~55% These rule of thumb are accurate within 3% power, depending on installation. If you want to be conservative, use 49, 46 and 43. J Riffel wrote: > Does ANYONE have (or know where I can find) a SIMPLE power chart for > the Lycoming/Superior IO-360 B series engine? > I need something that allows me to fill-in a chart similar to this > > For 55% 2300 2400 2500 RPM > (99hp) map map map > sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n > 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n > 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n > ... > > For 65% 2300 2400 2500 RPM > (117hp) map map map > sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n > 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n > 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n > ... > > For 75% 2300 2400 2500 RPM > (135hp) map map map > sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n > 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n > 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n > ... > > I can read the the Goofy Lycoming Chart ("Figure 3-23 Sea Level and > Altitude Performance - IO-360-B1A"). I've been studying it for DAYS. > But I defy anyone to use that chart to tell me within 20 minutes what > RPM, MAP to use at 5,000' to get 65% power. The chart is built to > derive HP at an altitude if you know RPM and MP. Instead I need a > table for my POH so I can run at a %HP if I've been assigned an > altitude. I've sent messages to both Lycoming and Superior and they > just think I can't read their table. > > Thanks in Advance. > * > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 04, 2008
Subject: Re: Need info
Another thing builders often do without thinking is to use those sharp whee l tube cutters that work harden the end of the tubing, try to flair this area and end up with cracks. You can use this type of cutter but you are going to have to cut the tubing slightly greater than final size and then file off the hardened alloy to get down to the dead soft material. This is akin to Van's instructions to redrill to size the mechanically punched holes in ski ns in order to remove the slight area of work hardened material. N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 908hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley) In a message dated 12/4/2008 2:56:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com writes: Jim, I=99m not an A&P, so not certain what the correct answer to your question should be about using emery cloth. Ideally, the answer is to buy one of those very expensive =9Cdouble flair=9D makers =93 it fol ds that ragged end under and gives you a smooth joint. No, I didn=99t spring for one either {:>) But, one thing you can to before you make the flare is to smooth the ends a s much as possible after cutting them. Small cracks lead to bigger cracks when you flair. The second thing is that frequently ragged ends are caused by having too much tube length sticking out of the clamp for flaring, that lead s to over stretching and ragged edges. No I don=99t know of the magic formula =93 but there probably is one somewhere. **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. m00000010) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: IO-360-B Power Chart?
Date: Dec 05, 2008
The problem with these rules of thumb that rely on summing hundreds of rpm and MP is that they don't take the effect of altitude into account. The usual one that you hear is sum of 48 for 75%. But, on an O-360-A engine, 2500 rpm and 23 inches will give you about 73% power at sea level, 77% power at 4000 ft and 82% at 8000 ft. If you can identify a type certificated aircraft with constant speed prop that used this engine, you could try to find a POH, and copy the power chart. Another option would be to see how the power chart for the IO-360-B engines compare to the one for the O-360-A engines. if they are close, you could use my O-360-A series power spreadsheet: http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/phplinks/out.php?&ID=401 Kevin Horton On 4-Dec-08, at 22:24 , Kelly McMullen wrote: > > Simple. Add MAP and rpm/100. total=50~75%, =47~65%, =44~55% These > rule of thumb are accurate within 3% power, depending on > installation. If you want to be conservative, use 49, 46 and 43. > > J Riffel wrote: >> Does ANYONE have (or know where I can find) a SIMPLE power chart >> for the Lycoming/Superior IO-360 B series engine? >> I need something that allows me to fill-in a chart similar to this >> For 55% 2300 2400 2500 RPM >> (99hp) map map map >> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n >> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n >> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n >> ... >> For 65% 2300 2400 2500 RPM >> (117hp) map map map >> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n >> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n >> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n >> ... >> For 75% 2300 2400 2500 RPM >> (135hp) map map map >> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n >> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n >> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n >> ... >> I can read the the Goofy Lycoming Chart ("Figure 3-23 Sea Level and >> Altitude Performance - IO-360-B1A"). I've been studying it for >> DAYS. But I defy anyone to use that chart to tell me within 20 >> minutes what RPM, MAP to use at 5,000' to get 65% power. The chart >> is built to derive HP at an altitude if you know RPM and MP. >> Instead I need a table for my POH so I can run at a %HP if I've >> been assigned an altitude. I've sent messages to both Lycoming and >> Superior and they just think I can't read their table. >> Thanks in Advance. >> * >> >> * -- Kevin Horton Ottawa, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2008
From: John Bright <john_s_bright(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Need info
What type of cutter is there other than the sharp rolling wheel?=0A=0Ado no t archive=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "Vanremog@aol .com" =0ATo: rv-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, Dece mber 4, 2008 11:17:49 PM=0ASubject: Re: RV-List: Need info=0A=0AAnother thi ng builders often do without thinking is to use those sharp =0Awheel tube c utters that work harden the end of the tubing, try to flair this =0Aarea an d end up with cracks. You can use this type of cutter but you are =0Agoing to have to cut the tubing slightly greater than final size =0Aand then fil e off the hardened alloy to get down to the dead soft =0Amaterial. This is akin to Van's instructions to redrill to size the =0Amechanically punched holes in skins in order to remove the slight area =0Aof work hardened mater ial.=0A =0A =0AN1GV (RV-6A, Flying 908hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon =0AValle y) =0A =0AIn a message dated 12/4/2008 2:56:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, =0Aeanderson(at)carolina.rr.com writes:=0AJim, I=92m not an A&P, so not certa in what the correct answer to your question should be about using emery cl oth. Ideally, the answer is to buy one of those very expensive =93double flair=94 makers ' it folds that ragged end under and gives you a smooth joint. No, I didn=92t spring for one either {:>)=0A =0A =0A But, one thing you can to before you make the flare is to smooth the ends as much as pos sible after cutting them. Small cracks lead to bigger cracks when you fl air. The second thing is that frequently ragged ends are caused by having too much tube length sticking out of the clamp for flaring, that leads to over stretching and ragged edges. No I don=92t know of the magic formula ' but there probably is one somewhere. =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________ ___________________=0AMake your life easier with all your friends, e=new- =======================0A=0A=0A =0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2008
From: "Tracy Crook" <tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com>
Subject: Re: IO-360-B Power Chart?
Hate to sound critical, but I have to agree with Lycoming. Do you have a tach? Do you have MP gauge? If so, what is the problem? Altitude has almost nothing to do with it other than a small effect on pumping losses which can safely be ignored in this case. Tracy Crook On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 10:16 PM, J Riffel wrote: > Does ANYONE have (or know where I can find) a SIMPLE power chart for the > Lycoming/Superior IO-360 B series engine? > I need something that allows me to fill-in a chart similar to this > > For 55% 2300 2400 2500 RPM > (99hp) map map map > sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n > 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n > 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n > ... > > For 65% 2300 2400 2500 RPM > (117hp) map map map > sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n > 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n > 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n > ... > > For 75% 2300 2400 2500 RPM > (135hp) map map map > sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n > 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n > 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n > ... > > I can read the the Goofy Lycoming Chart ("Figure 3-23 Sea Level and > Altitude Performance - IO-360-B1A"). I've been studying it for DAYS. But I > defy anyone to use that chart to tell me within 20 minutes what RPM, MAP to > use at 5,000' to get 65% power. The chart is built to derive HP at an > altitude if you know RPM and MP. Instead I need a table for my POH so I can > run at a %HP if I've been assigned an altitude. I've sent messages to both > Lycoming and Superior and they just think I can't read their table. > > Thanks in Advance. > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2008
From: "Tracy Crook" <tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com>
Subject: Re: IO-360-B Power Chart?
Wow, this looks like about 20 HP in pumping losses at sea level at 23" MP. Sounds like a lot. I'm interested, where did you get those figures? I've been using figures a bit lower than this in my engine and instrument development. But as long as we are ignoring fuel flow, the effect of mixture on HP is pretty big. All the commercial pilots I've flown with use the fuel flow gauge to set power. The physics are the same in all of them but maybe I have underestimated the differences between Lycoming and auto engines. Tracy Crook Mazda rotary powered RV-4 On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 5:38 AM, Kevin Horton wrote: > > The problem with these rules of thumb that rely on summing hundreds of rpm > and MP is that they don't take the effect of altitude into account. The > usual one that you hear is sum of 48 for 75%. But, on an O-360-A engine, > 2500 rpm and 23 inches will give you about 73% power at sea level, 77% power > at 4000 ft and 82% at 8000 ft. > > If you can identify a type certificated aircraft with constant speed prop > that used this engine, you could try to find a POH, and copy the power > chart. Another option would be to see how the power chart for the IO-360-B > engines compare to the one for the O-360-A engines. if they are close, you > could use my O-360-A series power spreadsheet: > > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/phplinks/out.php?&ID=401 > > Kevin Horton > > > On 4-Dec-08, at 22:24 , Kelly McMullen wrote: > >> >> Simple. Add MAP and rpm/100. total=50~75%, =47~65%, =44~55% These rule >> of thumb are accurate within 3% power, depending on installation. If you >> want to be conservative, use 49, 46 and 43. >> >> J Riffel wrote: >> >>> Does ANYONE have (or know where I can find) a SIMPLE power chart for the >>> Lycoming/Superior IO-360 B series engine? >>> I need something that allows me to fill-in a chart similar to this >>> For 55% 2300 2400 2500 RPM >>> (99hp) map map map >>> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n >>> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n >>> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n >>> ... >>> For 65% 2300 2400 2500 RPM >>> (117hp) map map map >>> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n >>> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n >>> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n >>> ... >>> For 75% 2300 2400 2500 RPM >>> (135hp) map map map >>> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n >>> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n >>> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n >>> ... >>> I can read the the Goofy Lycoming Chart ("Figure 3-23 Sea Level and >>> Altitude Performance - IO-360-B1A"). I've been studying it for DAYS. But I >>> defy anyone to use that chart to tell me within 20 minutes what RPM, MAP to >>> use at 5,000' to get 65% power. The chart is built to derive HP at an >>> altitude if you know RPM and MP. Instead I need a table for my POH so I can >>> run at a %HP if I've been assigned an altitude. I've sent messages to both >>> Lycoming and Superior and they just think I can't read their table. >>> Thanks in Advance. >>> * >>> >>> * >>> >> > > > -- > Kevin Horton > Ottawa, Canada > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2008
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: IO-360-B Power Chart?
That is one very good induction system if you can get 23" at 8000 ft. In my Mooney owners manual, for its IO-360A1A, 2500 and 23" at 7500 is 151 hp, or 75.5%. However, with the IO-360-A3B6 engine it takes 25 squared, supposedly, to get 75% even though the J model with that engine has a significantly better induction system than my older Mooney. Obviously the B series engine is only rated for 180hp, so the 75% number will be 180hp There is nothing magic about 75% or 70% or any other round number. Many production aircraft now show 78% for their marketing desired cruise numbers. The engines are generally rated for continuous use at 100% power. One just needs to use mixture settings appropriate to the power. If you choose to operate lean of peak EGT, the fuel flow will entirely control the power, such that 10gph will be 149 horsepower on the normally aspirated IO-360A series with standard compression. For the B series a 75% figure would be 9.0 gph to give 135 hp. Kevin Horton wrote: > > The problem with these rules of thumb that rely on summing hundreds of > rpm and MP is that they don't take the effect of altitude into > account. The usual one that you hear is sum of 48 for 75%. But, on > an O-360-A engine, 2500 rpm and 23 inches will give you about 73% > power at sea level, 77% power at 4000 ft and 82% at 8000 ft. > > If you can identify a type certificated aircraft with constant speed > prop that used this engine, you could try to find a POH, and copy the > power chart. Another option would be to see how the power chart for > the IO-360-B engines compare to the one for the O-360-A engines. if > they are close, you could use my O-360-A series power spreadsheet: > > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/phplinks/out.php?&ID=401 > > Kevin Horton > > > On 4-Dec-08, at 22:24 , Kelly McMullen wrote: > >> >> Simple. Add MAP and rpm/100. total=50~75%, =47~65%, =44~55% These >> rule of thumb are accurate within 3% power, depending on >> installation. If you want to be conservative, use 49, 46 and 43. >> >> J Riffel wrote: >>> Does ANYONE have (or know where I can find) a SIMPLE power chart for >>> the Lycoming/Superior IO-360 B series engine? >>> I need something that allows me to fill-in a chart similar to this >>> For 55% 2300 2400 2500 RPM >>> (99hp) map map map >>> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n >>> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n >>> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n >>> ... >>> For 65% 2300 2400 2500 RPM >>> (117hp) map map map >>> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n >>> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n >>> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n >>> ... >>> For 75% 2300 2400 2500 RPM >>> (135hp) map map map >>> sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n >>> 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n >>> 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n >>> ... >>> I can read the the Goofy Lycoming Chart ("Figure 3-23 Sea Level and >>> Altitude Performance - IO-360-B1A"). I've been studying it for DAYS. >>> But I defy anyone to use that chart to tell me within 20 minutes >>> what RPM, MAP to use at 5,000' to get 65% power. The chart is built >>> to derive HP at an altitude if you know RPM and MP. Instead I need a >>> table for my POH so I can run at a %HP if I've been assigned an >>> altitude. I've sent messages to both Lycoming and Superior and they >>> just think I can't read their table. >>> Thanks in Advance. >>> * >>> >>> * > > > -- > Kevin Horton > Ottawa, Canada > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Flyboy Accessories
Date: Dec 05, 2008
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
SNIP<<<>>>>> SNIP Bert, Simply click on the "Contact Us" link. It's on the left side of every page. FWIW, our wingwalk material is at this URL: http://www.flyboyaccessories.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info &cPath=1&products_id 7 It is $6/running foot and is 12" wide, black, non-abrasive and self adhesive. Thanks, Vince Frazier http://www.flyboyaccessories.com/ Flyboy Accessories 3965 Caborn Road Mount Vernon, IN 47620 812-464-1839 office M-TH 812-985-7309 shop Fri-Sun ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2008
From: Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com>
Subject: Re: Need info
On Fri, 5 Dec 2008, dan(at)rdan.com wrote: > Does any lubricant like boelube help with the cuttting of flairing process? the instructions that came withmy flaring tool said to put a drop of oil on the cone. Never tried using it without, so don't know how much difference it makes. Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) RV-8A 80091 fitting fuel vent tubing. 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: IO-360-B Power Chart?
Date: Dec 05, 2008
Those numbers come from a spreadsheet that replicates the Lycoming power chart. It isn't a perfect match to Lycoming's chart, but it is fairly close. Just as a cross check, I went into the chart to confirm what it says. I made that spreadsheet a long time ago, and I now see that the current Lycoming Operator's Manual has a newer power chart, which is quite different. My old one is based on Lycoming curve 10350- A (I have a copy in my filing cabinent). My newer Lycoming manual has curve 13358. Looking at 2500 rpm and 23", I get the following powers from (in order) my old spreadsheet, Lycoming curve 10350-A and Lycoming curve 13358: sea level: 131 hp (73%), 131 hp (73%), 123 hp (68%) 4000 ft: 139 hp (77%), 139 hp (77%), 134 hp (74%) 8000 ft: 147 hp (82%), 146 hp (81%), 144 hp (80%) I won't attempt to guess why there is such a large difference between these two Lycoming power charts, both of which are for the O-360-A and -C series engines. I don't completely understand why they show such a large difference in power with altitude, but I suspect it goes beyond pumping losses. I suspect there is better cylinder scavenging, and better cylinder filling if there is less exhaust back pressure. Kevin Horton On 5-Dec-08, at 09:01 , Tracy Crook wrote: > Wow, this looks like about 20 HP in pumping losses at sea level at > 23" MP. Sounds like a lot. I'm interested, where did you get > those figures? I've been using figures a bit lower than this in my > engine and instrument development. > > But as long as we are ignoring fuel flow, the effect of mixture on > HP is pretty big. All the commercial pilots I've flown with use the > fuel flow gauge to set power. > > The physics are the same in all of them but maybe I have > underestimated the differences between Lycoming and auto engines. > > Tracy Crook > Mazda rotary powered RV-4 > > > On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 5:38 AM, Kevin Horton > wrote: > > The problem with these rules of thumb that rely on summing hundreds > of rpm and MP is that they don't take the effect of altitude into > account. The usual one that you hear is sum of 48 for 75%. But, on > an O-360-A engine, 2500 rpm and 23 inches will give you about 73% > power at sea level, 77% power at 4000 ft and 82% at 8000 ft. > > If you can identify a type certificated aircraft with constant speed > prop that used this engine, you could try to find a POH, and copy > the power chart. Another option would be to see how the power chart > for the IO-360-B engines compare to the one for the O-360-A > engines. if they are close, you could use my O-360-A series power > spreadsheet: > > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/phplinks/out.php?&ID=401 > > Kevin Horton > > > On 4-Dec-08, at 22:24 , Kelly McMullen wrote: > > > Simple. Add MAP and rpm/100. total=50~75%, =47~65%, =44~55% These > rule of thumb are accurate within 3% power, depending on > installation. If you want to be conservative, use 49, 46 and 43. > > J Riffel wrote: > Does ANYONE have (or know where I can find) a SIMPLE power chart for > the Lycoming/Superior IO-360 B series engine? > I need something that allows me to fill-in a chart similar to this > For 55% 2300 2400 2500 RPM > (99hp) map map map > sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n > 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n > 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n > ... > For 65% 2300 2400 2500 RPM > (117hp) map map map > sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n > 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n > 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n > ... > For 75% 2300 2400 2500 RPM > (135hp) map map map > sea level nn.n nn.n nn.n > 2K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n > 4K ft nn.n nn.n nn.n > ... > I can read the the Goofy Lycoming Chart ("Figure 3-23 Sea Level and > Altitude Performance - IO-360-B1A"). I've been studying it for DAYS. > But I defy anyone to use that chart to tell me within 20 minutes > what RPM, MAP to use at 5,000' to get 65% power. The chart is built > to derive HP at an altitude if you know RPM and MP. Instead I need a > table for my POH so I can run at a %HP if I've been assigned an > altitude. I've sent messages to both Lycoming and Superior and they > just think I can't read their table. > Thanks in Advance. > * > > * > > > -- > Kevin Horton > Ottawa, Canada > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon or Marge" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com>
Subject: Need info
Date: Dec 05, 2008
-----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Bright Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 7:54 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Need info What type of cutter is there other than the sharp rolling wheel? John et al: A procedure you might try that has worked for me is: saw cut the tubing clamp in flaring vise slightly proud file flush with vise using a mill smooth file chamfer tubing i.d. end with countersink and deburr outer diameter with scraping tool blow and/or wash out chips form flare with a lightly lubricated cone inspect and clean as necessary The vise that I have with my flaring set does not have a conical female form but rather a radiused shoulder that provides a match with the sleeve you will use. The cone forms the flare but only irons the metal at the radius in the vise. The RV-4 has been flying since 1993 with no leaks or flare failures. Gordon Comfort N363GC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2008
From: "J Riffel" <riffeljl(at)gmail.com>
Subject: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND
A kind sole at Lycoming saw the RV post and sent this - which is EXACTLY what I was looking for. So I thought I'd share: Fuel and Power Chart - Lycoming Model IO-360-B1B, -B1D, -B1E, -E1A , - B1A Press. Alt. 1000 Ft Std. Alt. Temp. F=BA 99 Hp - *55%* Rated Fuel Flow *45 Lb/H*r RPM & MAP 117 HP - *65%* Rated Fuel Flow *50 Lb/Hr *RPM & MAP 135 HP-*75%*Rated Fuel Flow *60 Lb/Hr *RPM & MAP *2100* *2200* *2300* *2400* *2100* *2200* *2300* *2400* *2200* *2300* *2400* SL 59 21.2 20.7 20.2 19.7 24.0 23.4 22.8 22.2 26.0 25.4 24.7 1 55 21.0 20.5 20.0 19.5 23.8 23.2 22.5 22.0 25.8 25.1 24.5 2 52 20.7 20.3 19.7 19.3 23.5 22.9 22.3 21.8 25.5 24.8 24.2 3 48 20.5 20.0 19.5 19.1 23.2 22.7 22.0 21.5 25.3 24.6 24.0 4 45 20.3 19.8 19.3 18.9 23.0 22.5 21.8 21.3 25.1 24.3 23.8 5 41 20.0 19.6 19.1 18.6 22.7 22.2 21.6 21.1 FT 24.1 23.5 6 38 19.8 19.4 18.9 18.4 22.5 22.0 21.3 20.9 FT 23.3 7 34 19.6 19.2 18.7 18.2 22.0 21.8 21.1 20.7 FT 8 31 19.3 18.9 18.4 18.0 FT 21.5 20.9 20.5 9 27 19.1 18.6 18.3 17.8 17.4 FT 10 23 18.9 18.4 18.1 17.6 17.2 11 19 18.6 FT 17.8 17.4 17.0 12 16 18.4 FT 17.1 16.8 13 12 FT To Maintain constant power, correct manifold pressure approximately 0.17"hg . For each 10F variation in carburetor air temperature from standard altitude temperature. Add manifold pressure for air temperatures above standard; subtract for temperatures below standard ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2008
From: "Tracy Crook" <tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com>
Subject: Re: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND
Thanks! Very interesting. Altitude looks like it has more effect on MP requirement than I thought. Must be the exhaust back pressure reduction at altitude as someone else pointed out. I had not factored that in and was only compensating for pumping losses. Was also gratified that laws of physics still hold and there is no free lunch. It still takes a fixed amount of fuel to make a given amount of HP. Guess that's why the commercial pilots use fuel flow, which is the method I've been using. The change in MP requirement is hard to measure when using a fixed pitch prop when RPM is not directly controllable. Fuel flow takes all the math out of the calculation. Also shows why it makes sense to fly at less than 75% power. Only took 5 lb/hr to get 10% more HP between 55 & 65% but double that to get the next 10% HP. Gets even worse above that. Tracy Crook On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 9:33 AM, J Riffel wrote: > A kind sole at Lycoming saw the RV post and sent this - which is EXACTL Y > what I was looking for. So I thought I'd share: > > > Fuel and Power Chart - Lycoming Model IO-360-B1B, -B1D, -B1E, > -E1A, - B1A > > Press. Alt. 1000 Ft > > Std. Alt. Temp. F=BA > > 99 Hp - *55%* Rated Fuel Flow *45 Lb/H*r RPM & MAP > > 117 HP - *65%* Rated Fuel Flow *50 Lb/Hr *RPM & MAP > > 135 HP-*75%*Rated Fuel Flow *60 Lb/Hr *RPM & MAP > > *2100* > > *2200* > > *2300* > > *2400* > > *2100* > > *2200* > > *2300* > > *2400* > > *2200* > > *2300* > > *2400* > > SL > > 59 > > 21.2 > > 20.7 > > 20.2 > > 19.7 > > 24.0 > > 23.4 > > 22.8 > > 22.2 > > 26.0 > > 25.4 > > 24.7 > > 1 > > 55 > > 21.0 > > 20.5 > > 20.0 > > 19.5 > > 23.8 > > 23.2 > > 22.5 > > 22.0 > > 25.8 > > 25.1 > > 24.5 > > 2 > > 52 > > 20.7 > > 20.3 > > 19.7 > > 19.3 > > 23.5 > > 22.9 > > 22.3 > > 21.8 > > 25.5 > > 24.8 > > 24.2 > > 3 > > 48 > > 20.5 > > 20.0 > > 19.5 > > 19.1 > > 23.2 > > 22.7 > > 22.0 > > 21.5 > > 25.3 > > 24.6 > > 24.0 > > 4 > > 45 > > 20.3 > > 19.8 > > 19.3 > > 18.9 > > 23.0 > > 22.5 > > 21.8 > > 21.3 > > 25.1 > > 24.3 > > 23.8 > > 5 > > 41 > > 20.0 > > 19.6 > > 19.1 > > 18.6 > > 22.7 > > 22.2 > > 21.6 > > 21.1 > > FT > > 24.1 > > 23.5 > > 6 > > 38 > > 19.8 > > 19.4 > > 18.9 > > 18.4 > > 22.5 > > 22.0 > > 21.3 > > 20.9 > > FT > > 23.3 > > 7 > > 34 > > 19.6 > > 19.2 > > 18.7 > > 18.2 > > 22.0 > > 21.8 > > 21.1 > > 20.7 > > FT > > 8 > > 31 > > 19.3 > > 18.9 > > 18.4 > > 18.0 > > FT > > 21.5 > > 20.9 > > 20.5 > > 9 > > 27 > > 19.1 > > 18.6 > > 18.3 > > 17.8 > > 17.4 > > FT > > 10 > > 23 > > 18.9 > > 18.4 > > 18.1 > > 17.6 > > 17.2 > > 11 > > 19 > > 18.6 > > FT > > 17.8 > > 17.4 > > 17.0 > > 12 > > 16 > > 18.4 > > FT > > 17.1 > > 16.8 > > 13 > > 12 > > FT > > To Maintain constant power, correct manifold pressure approximately > 0.17"hg. For each 10F variation in carburetor air temperature from standa rd > altitude temperature. Add manifold pressure for air temperatures above > standard; subtract for temperatures below standard > > * > =========== =========== =========== ============* > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2008
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND
The chart also appears to have some inaccuracies & is incomplete. The inaccuracies seem obvious if you look down each rpm column. How can the engine produce the same power at a fixed rpm but with as much as an 8.2 inch variation in MP? (Unless you're assuming that you aren't leaning & you're wasting fuel at the lower MP's.) It's incomplete because the engine will produce 75% at around 7k-8k feet altitude but it takes 2700 rpm to get 75% at that altitude. That number is in official Lyc charts. I've got one lying around somewhere but it's a really bad photocopy from a Lyc book & wouldn't be visible if I copied it again. The number that can be calculated from Lyc power/fuel burn charts that's consistent with the top section of this chart is the calculated ~0.45 lb per hp per hour number at 75%. A 180 hp Lyc burns very close to 10 gph at 75%: 60 lb per hr/(6 lb per gal)=10 gal per hr. 60 lb per hr at 135 hp is very close to 0.45 lb per hp per hr. Charlie Tracy Crook wrote: > Thanks! Very interesting. Altitude looks like it has more effect on > MP requirement than I thought. Must be the exhaust back pressure > reduction at altitude as someone else pointed out. I had not factored > that in and was only compensating for pumping losses. > > Was also gratified that laws of physics still hold and there is no > free lunch. It still takes a fixed amount of fuel to make a given > amount of HP. Guess that's why the commercial pilots use fuel flow, > which is the method I've been using. The change in MP requirement is > hard to measure when using a fixed pitch prop when RPM is not > directly controllable. Fuel flow takes all the math out of the > calculation. > > Also shows why it makes sense to fly at less than 75% power. Only > took 5 lb/hr to get 10% more HP between 55 & 65% but double that to > get the next 10% HP. Gets even worse above that. > > Tracy Crook > > > On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 9:33 AM, J Riffel > wrote: > > A kind sole at Lycoming saw the RV post and sent this - which is > EXACTLY what I was looking for. So I thought I'd share: > > > > Fuel and Power Chart - Lycoming Model IO-360-B1B, -B1D, -B1E, > -E1A, - B1A > > Press. Alt. 1000 Ft > > > > Std. Alt. Temp. F > > > > 99 Hp - *55%* Rated Fuel Flow *45 Lb/H*r RPM & MAP > > > > 117 HP - *65%* Rated Fuel Flow *50 Lb/Hr *RPM & MAP > > > > 135 HP-*75%*Rated Fuel Flow *60 Lb/Hr *RPM & MAP > > > > > > *2100* > > > > *2200* > > > > *2300* > > > > *2400* > > > > *2100* > > > > *2200* > > > > *2300* > > > > *2400* > > > > *2200* > > > > *2300* > > > > *2400* > > SL > > > > 59 > > > > 21.2 > > > > 20.7 > > > > 20.2 > > > > 19.7 > > > > 24.0 > > > > 23.4 > > > > 22.8 > > > > 22.2 > > > > 26.0 > > > > 25.4 > > > > 24.7 > > 1 > > > > 55 > > > > 21.0 > > > > 20.5 > > > > 20.0 > > > > 19.5 > > > > 23.8 > > > > 23.2 > > > > 22.5 > > > > 22.0 > > > > 25.8 > > > > 25.1 > > > > 24.5 > > 2 > > > > 52 > > > > 20.7 > > > > 20.3 > > > > 19.7 > > > > 19.3 > > > > 23.5 > > > > 22.9 > > > > 22.3 > > > > 21.8 > > > > 25.5 > > > > 24.8 > > > > 24.2 > > 3 > > > > 48 > > > > 20.5 > > > > 20.0 > > > > 19.5 > > > > 19.1 > > > > 23.2 > > > > 22.7 > > > > 22.0 > > > > 21.5 > > > > 25.3 > > > > 24.6 > > > > 24.0 > > 4 > > > > 45 > > > > 20.3 > > > > 19.8 > > > > 19.3 > > > > 18.9 > > > > 23.0 > > > > 22.5 > > > > 21.8 > > > > 21.3 > > > > 25.1 > > > > 24.3 > > > > 23.8 > > 5 > > > > 41 > > > > 20.0 > > > > 19.6 > > > > 19.1 > > > > 18.6 > > > > 22.7 > > > > 22.2 > > > > 21.6 > > > > 21.1 > > > > FT > > > > 24.1 > > > > 23.5 > > 6 > > > > 38 > > > > 19.8 > > > > 19.4 > > > > 18.9 > > > > 18.4 > > > > 22.5 > > > > 22.0 > > > > 21.3 > > > > 20.9 > > > > > FT > > > > 23.3 > > 7 > > > > 34 > > > > 19.6 > > > > 19.2 > > > > 18.7 > > > > 18.2 > > > > 22.0 > > > > 21.8 > > > > 21.1 > > > > 20.7 > > > > > > FT > > 8 > > > > 31 > > > > 19.3 > > > > 18.9 > > > > 18.4 > > > > 18.0 > > > > FT > > > > 21.5 > > > > 20.9 > > > > 20.5 > > > > > > 9 > > > > 27 > > > > 19.1 > > > > 18.6 > > > > 18.3 > > > > 17.8 > > > > 17.4 > > > > > > FT > > > > > > 10 > > > > 23 > > > > 18.9 > > > > 18.4 > > > > 18.1 > > > > 17.6 > > > > 17.2 > > > > > > > > > 11 > > > > 19 > > > > 18.6 > > > > FT > > > > 17.8 > > > > 17.4 > > > > 17.0 > > > > > > > > > 12 > > > > 16 > > > > 18.4 > > > > > FT > > > > 17.1 > > > > 16.8 > > > > > > > > > 13 > > > > 12 > > > > FT > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Maintain constant power, correct manifold pressure > approximately 0.17"hg. For each 10F variation in carburetor air > temperature from standard altitude temperature. Add manifold > pressure for air temperatures above standard; subtract for > temperatures below standard > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: paint protection film
Date: Dec 06, 2008
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
<<<<>>> Even better is the paint protection film that I carry. Unlike the UHMW film, it won't yellow or harden and can be peeled off up to several years later without leaving any residue. Use the 4" wide on top of your flaps. Buy a few extra feet to trim and fit under fairings for rub protection. Put a few square inches on the leading edge of your tailwheel and never lose any paint. Works great in hundreds of places. Thanks, Vince Frazier http://www.flyboyaccessories.com/ Flyboy Accessories 3965 Caborn Road Mount Vernon, IN 47620 812-464-1839 office M-TH 812-985-7309 shop Fri-Sun ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2008
From: "Tracy Crook" <tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com>
Subject: Re: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND
Might be a formatting issue when emailing charts. I only see about a 2" max variation in MP with altitude when looking at the chart. And now that I look closely, the temperature is also factored in (lower temp at higher altitude). I was thinking in terms of constant temperature. With that in mind, I go back to my original premise that altitude alone has almost no effect on MP for a given RPM and HP. Looks like it's almost all temperature and pumping loss related. This is all very interesting and important to me when doing engine development but, would anyone actually use such a chart and the associated formulas when flying? Not if you are on the main mission of the RV pilot ( Fun ). If this is that important to you, it's well worth installing a fuel flow instrument. Tracy Crook On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Charlie England w rote: > > The chart also appears to have some inaccuracies & is incomplete. The > inaccuracies seem obvious if you look down each rpm column. How can the > engine produce the same power at a fixed rpm but with as much as an 8.2 i nch > variation in MP? (Unless you're assuming that you aren't leaning & you're > wasting fuel at the lower MP's.) > > It's incomplete because the engine will produce 75% at around 7k-8k feet > altitude but it takes 2700 rpm to get 75% at that altitude. That number i s > in official Lyc charts. I've got one lying around somewhere but it's a > really bad photocopy from a Lyc book & wouldn't be visible if I copied it > again. > > The number that can be calculated from Lyc power/fuel burn charts that's > consistent with the top section of this chart is the calculated ~0.45 lb per > hp per hour number at 75%. A 180 hp Lyc burns very close to 10 gph at 75% : > 60 lb per hr/(6 lb per gal)=10 gal per hr. 60 lb per hr at 135 hp is ve ry > close to 0.45 lb per hp per hr. > > Charlie > > > Tracy Crook wrote: > >> Thanks! Very interesting. Altitude looks like it has more effect on M P >> requirement than I thought. Must be the exhaust back pressure reduction at >> altitude as someone else pointed out. I had not factored that in and wa s >> only compensating for pumping losses. >> Was also gratified that laws of physics still hold and there is no free >> lunch. It still takes a fixed amount of fuel to make a given amount of HP. >> Guess that's why the commercial pilots use fuel flow, which is the meth od >> I've been using. The change in MP requirement is hard to measure when >> using a fixed pitch prop when RPM is not directly controllable. Fuel f low >> takes all the math out of the calculation. >> >> Also shows why it makes sense to fly at less than 75% power. Only took 5 >> lb/hr to get 10% more HP between 55 & 65% but double that to get the nex t >> 10% HP. Gets even worse above that. >> >> Tracy Crook >> >> >> >> On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 9:33 AM, J Riffel > riffeljl(at)gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> A kind sole at Lycoming saw the RV post and sent this - which is >> EXACTLY what I was looking for. So I thought I'd share: >> >> >> Fuel and Power Chart - Lycoming Model IO-360-B1B, -B1D, -B1E, >> -E1A, - B1A >> >> Press. Alt. 1000 Ft >> >> >> >> Std. Alt. Temp. F=BA >> >> >> >> 99 Hp - *55%* Rated Fuel Flow *45 Lb/H*r RPM & MAP >> >> >> >> >> 117 HP - *65%* Rated Fuel Flow *50 Lb/Hr *RPM & MAP >> >> >> >> 135 HP-*75%*Rated Fuel Flow *60 Lb/Hr *RPM & MAP >> >> >> >> >> >> *2100* >> >> >> >> *2200* >> >> >> >> *2300* >> >> >> >> *2400* >> >> >> >> *2100* >> >> >> >> *2200* >> >> >> >> *2300* >> >> >> >> *2400* >> >> >> >> *2200* >> >> >> >> *2300* >> >> >> >> *2400* >> >> SL >> >> >> >> 59 >> >> >> >> 21.2 >> >> >> >> 20.7 >> >> >> >> 20.2 >> >> >> >> 19.7 >> >> >> >> 24.0 >> >> >> >> 23.4 >> >> >> >> 22.8 >> >> >> >> 22.2 >> >> >> >> 26.0 >> >> >> >> 25.4 >> >> >> >> 24.7 >> >> 1 >> >> >> >> 55 >> >> >> >> 21.0 >> >> >> >> 20.5 >> >> >> >> 20.0 >> >> >> >> 19.5 >> >> >> >> 23.8 >> >> >> >> 23.2 >> >> >> >> 22.5 >> >> >> >> 22.0 >> >> >> >> 25.8 >> >> >> >> 25.1 >> >> >> >> 24.5 >> >> 2 >> >> >> >> 52 >> >> >> >> 20.7 >> >> >> >> 20.3 >> >> >> >> 19.7 >> >> >> >> 19.3 >> >> >> >> 23.5 >> >> >> >> 22.9 >> >> >> >> 22.3 >> >> >> >> 21.8 >> >> >> >> 25.5 >> >> >> >> 24.8 >> >> >> >> 24.2 >> >> 3 >> >> >> >> 48 >> >> >> >> 20.5 >> >> >> >> 20.0 >> >> >> >> 19.5 >> >> >> >> 19.1 >> >> >> >> 23.2 >> >> >> >> 22.7 >> >> >> >> 22.0 >> >> >> >> 21.5 >> >> >> >> 25.3 >> >> >> >> 24.6 >> >> >> >> 24.0 >> >> 4 >> >> >> >> 45 >> >> >> >> 20.3 >> >> >> >> 19.8 >> >> >> >> 19.3 >> >> >> >> 18.9 >> >> >> >> 23.0 >> >> >> >> 22.5 >> >> >> >> 21.8 >> >> >> >> 21.3 >> >> >> >> 25.1 >> >> >> >> 24.3 >> >> >> >> 23.8 >> >> 5 >> >> >> >> 41 >> >> >> >> 20.0 >> >> >> >> 19.6 >> >> >> >> 19.1 >> >> >> >> 18.6 >> >> >> >> 22.7 >> >> >> >> 22.2 >> >> >> >> 21.6 >> >> >> >> 21.1 >> >> >> >> FT >> >> >> >> 24.1 >> >> >> >> 23.5 >> >> 6 >> >> >> >> 38 >> >> >> >> 19.8 >> >> >> >> 19.4 >> >> >> >> 18.9 >> >> >> >> 18.4 >> >> >> >> 22.5 >> >> >> >> 22.0 >> >> >> >> 21.3 >> >> >> >> 20.9 >> >> >> >> >> FT >> >> >> >> 23.3 >> >> 7 >> >> >> >> 34 >> >> >> >> 19.6 >> >> >> >> 19.2 >> >> >> >> 18.7 >> >> >> >> 18.2 >> >> >> >> 22.0 >> >> >> >> 21.8 >> >> >> >> 21.1 >> >> >> >> 20.7 >> >> >> >> >> >> FT >> >> 8 >> >> >> >> 31 >> >> >> >> 19.3 >> >> >> >> 18.9 >> >> >> >> 18.4 >> >> >> >> 18.0 >> >> >> >> FT >> >> >> >> 21.5 >> >> >> >> 20.9 >> >> >> >> 20.5 >> >> >> >> >> >> 9 >> >> >> >> 27 >> >> >> >> 19.1 >> >> >> >> 18.6 >> >> >> >> 18.3 >> >> >> >> 17.8 >> >> >> >> 17.4 >> >> >> >> >> >> FT >> >> >> >> >> >> 10 >> >> >> >> 23 >> >> >> >> 18.9 >> >> >> >> 18.4 >> >> >> >> 18.1 >> >> >> >> 17.6 >> >> >> >> 17.2 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 11 >> >> >> >> 19 >> >> >> >> 18.6 >> >> >> >> FT >> >> >> >> 17.8 >> >> >> >> 17.4 >> >> >> >> 17.0 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 12 >> >> >> >> 16 >> >> >> >> 18.4 >> >> >> >> >> FT >> >> >> >> 17.1 >> >> >> >> 16.8 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 13 >> >> >> >> 12 >> >> >> >> FT >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To Maintain constant power, correct manifold pressure >> approximately 0.17"hg. For each 10F variation in carburetor air >> temperature from standard altitude temperature. Add manifold >> pressure for air temperatures above standard; subtract for >> temperatures below standard >> >> > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2008
From: "David Schaefer" <n142ds(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: IO-360-B Power Chart?
I have a friend looking for a GNC 300 XL wiring manual. Does anyone out there have a PDF? Please send it to me off-line. Thanks... David W. Schaefer RV-6A N142DS "Nerdgasm" TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS www.n142ds.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 07, 2008
From: "David Schaefer" <n142ds(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Cleaning out Hanger
I've been cleaning and have the following for sale: Monroy ATD-300 Traffic Monitor. I've had this unit panel mounted in my RV for several years. With the new panel it's been removed. I sent it to Monroy for the latest firmware and it's back. List $795.00 ... for sale for $500.00 with all accessories to mount on dash etc. Kennedy Technology - CellSet 5000 - connect your cell phone to your headset. Works great! $150.00. Email me off-line if interested. David W. Schaefer RV-6A N142DS "Nerdgasm" TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS www.n142ds.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List of Contributors 2008
Dear Listers, This year's Fund Raiser has drawn to a close and I want to thank everyone that so generously made a contribution this year in support of the Matronics Email List and Forum operation. Your generosity keeps the wheels on this cart and I truly appreciate the many kind words of encouragement and financial reimbursement. If you haven't yet made a Contribution in support of this year's Fund Raiser, please feel free to do so. The great List Fund Raiser gifts will be available on the Contribution site for a little while longer, so hurry and make your Contribution today and still get your great gift! Once again, the URL for the Contribution web site is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by personal check to: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 I would like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ), Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP ( http://www.homebuilthelp.com ) and Bob Nuckolls of AeroElectric ( http://www.aeroelectric.com ) for their extremely generous support during this year's Fund Raiser through the contribution of discounted merchandise. These are great guys that support the aviation industry and I encourage each and every Lister to have a look at their products. Thank you Andy, Jon and Bob!! Your support is very much appreciated! And finally, below you will find a web link to the 2008 List of Contributors current as of 12/7/08! Have a look at this list of names as *these* are the people that make all of these List services possible! I can't thank each of you enough for your support and great feedback during this year's Fund Raiser! THANK YOU! http://www.matronics.com/loc/2008.html I will be shipping out all of the gifts around the end of December. In most cases, gifts will be shipped via US Postal Service. Once again, thank you for making this year's List Fund Raiser successful! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND
Date: Dec 08, 2008
And so if they are still lurking, I would love to have this chart for the O-360-A1A. Tim Bryan RV-6 Flying N616TB over 120 hours now From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of J Riffel Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 8:34 AM Subject: RV-List: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND A kind sole at Lycoming saw the RV post and sent this - which is EXACTLY what I was looking for. So I thought I'd share: Fuel and Power Chart - Lycoming Model IO-360-B1B, -B1D, -B1E, -E1A, - B1A Press. Alt. 1000 Ft Std. Alt. Temp. F=BA 99 Hp - 55% Rated Fuel Flow 45 Lb/Hr RPM & MAP 117 HP - 65% Rated Fuel Flow 50 Lb/Hr RPM & MAP 135 HP-75%Rated Fuel Flow 60 Lb/Hr RPM & MAP 2100 2200 2300 2400 2100 2200 2300 2400 2200 2300 2400 SL 59 21.2 20.7 20.2 19.7 24.0 23.4 22.8 22.2 26.0 25.4 24.7 1 55 21.0 20.5 20.0 19.5 23.8 23.2 22.5 22.0 25.8 25.1 24.5 2 52 20.7 20.3 19.7 19.3 23.5 22.9 22.3 21.8 25.5 24.8 24.2 3 48 20.5 20.0 19.5 19.1 23.2 22.7 22.0 21.5 25.3 24.6 24.0 4 45 20.3 19.8 19.3 18.9 23.0 22.5 21.8 21.3 25.1 24.3 23.8 5 41 20.0 19.6 19.1 18.6 22.7 22.2 21.6 21.1 FT 24.1 23.5 6 38 19.8 19.4 18.9 18.4 22.5 22.0 21.3 20.9 FT 23.3 7 34 19.6 19.2 18.7 18.2 22.0 21.8 21.1 20.7 FT 8 31 19.3 18.9 18.4 18.0 FT 21.5 20.9 20.5 9 27 19.1 18.6 18.3 17.8 17.4 FT 10 23 18.9 18.4 18.1 17.6 17.2 11 19 18.6 FT 17.8 17.4 17.0 12 16 18.4 FT 17.1 16.8 13 12 FT To Maintain constant power, correct manifold pressure approximately 0.17"hg. For each 10F variation in carburetor air temperature from standard altitude temperature. Add manifold pressure for air temperatures above standard; subtract for temperatures below standard ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2008
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND
Should be almost identical, since both engines have the same cylinders and power ratings. Tim Bryan wrote: > > And so if they are still lurking, I would love to have this chart for > the O-360-A1A. > > > > *Tim Bryan* > > *RV-6 Flying* > > *N616TB over 120 hours now* > > > > *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *J Riffel > *Sent:* Saturday, December 06, 2008 8:34 AM > *To:* rv-list > *Subject:* RV-List: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND > > > > A kind sole at Lycoming saw the RV post and sent this - which is > EXACTLY what I was looking for. So I thought I'd share: > > > > Fuel and Power Chart - Lycoming Model IO-360-B1B, -B1D, -B1E, -E1A, - B1A > > Press. Alt. 1000 Ft > > > > Std. Alt. Temp. F > > > > 99 Hp - *55%* Rated Fuel Flow *45 Lb/H*r RPM & MAP > > > > 117 HP - *65%* Rated Fuel Flow *50 Lb/Hr *RPM & MAP > > > > 135 HP-*75%*Rated Fuel Flow *60 Lb/Hr *RPM & MAP > > > > > > *2100* > > > > *2200* > > > > *2300* > > > > *2400* > > > > *2100* > > > > *2200* > > > > *2300* > > > > *2400* > > > > *2200* > > > > *2300* > > > > *2400* > > SL > > > > 59 > > > > 21.2 > > > > 20.7 > > > > 20.2 > > > > 19.7 > > > > 24.0 > > > > 23.4 > > > > 22.8 > > > > 22.2 > > > > 26.0 > > > > 25.4 > > > > 24.7 > > 1 > > > > 55 > > > > 21.0 > > > > 20.5 > > > > 20.0 > > > > 19.5 > > > > 23.8 > > > > 23.2 > > > > 22.5 > > > > 22.0 > > > > 25.8 > > > > 25.1 > > > > 24.5 > > 2 > > > > 52 > > > > 20.7 > > > > 20.3 > > > > 19.7 > > > > 19.3 > > > > 23.5 > > > > 22.9 > > > > 22.3 > > > > 21.8 > > > > 25.5 > > > > 24.8 > > > > 24.2 > > 3 > > > > 48 > > > > 20.5 > > > > 20.0 > > > > 19.5 > > > > 19.1 > > > > 23.2 > > > > 22.7 > > > > 22.0 > > > > 21.5 > > > > 25.3 > > > > 24.6 > > > > 24.0 > > 4 > > > > 45 > > > > 20.3 > > > > 19.8 > > > > 19.3 > > > > 18.9 > > > > 23.0 > > > > 22.5 > > > > 21.8 > > > > 21.3 > > > > 25.1 > > > > 24.3 > > > > 23.8 > > 5 > > > > 41 > > > > 20.0 > > > > 19.6 > > > > 19.1 > > > > 18.6 > > > > 22.7 > > > > 22.2 > > > > 21.6 > > > > 21.1 > > > > FT > > > > 24.1 > > > > 23.5 > > 6 > > > > 38 > > > > 19.8 > > > > 19.4 > > > > 18.9 > > > > 18.4 > > > > 22.5 > > > > 22.0 > > > > 21.3 > > > > 20.9 > > > > > FT > > > > 23.3 > > 7 > > > > 34 > > > > 19.6 > > > > 19.2 > > > > 18.7 > > > > 18.2 > > > > 22.0 > > > > 21.8 > > > > 21.1 > > > > 20.7 > > > > > > FT > > 8 > > > > 31 > > > > 19.3 > > > > 18.9 > > > > 18.4 > > > > 18.0 > > > > FT > > > > 21.5 > > > > 20.9 > > > > 20.5 > > > > > > 9 > > > > 27 > > > > 19.1 > > > > 18.6 > > > > 18.3 > > > > 17.8 > > > > 17.4 > > > > > > FT > > > > > > 10 > > > > 23 > > > > 18.9 > > > > 18.4 > > > > 18.1 > > > > 17.6 > > > > 17.2 > > > > > > > > > 11 > > > > 19 > > > > 18.6 > > > > FT > > > > 17.8 > > > > 17.4 > > > > 17.0 > > > > > > > > > 12 > > > > 16 > > > > 18.4 > > > > > FT > > > > 17.1 > > > > 16.8 > > > > > > > > > 13 > > > > 12 > > > > FT > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Maintain constant power, correct manifold pressure approximately > 0.17"hg. For each 10F variation in carburetor air temperature from > standard altitude temperature. Add manifold pressure for air > temperatures above standard; subtract for temperatures below standard > > * * > * * > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List* > ** > ** > ** > *http://forums.matronics.com* > ** > * > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: RV-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 12/07/08
Date: Dec 08, 2008
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
SNIP>>>> Hi" I must be doing something wrong here, because I have posted a > message a few times, but no respond from anyone.>>>SNIP Wow, this is getting scary. I'm here. I can be reached at the following: Vince Frazier Flyboy Accessories 3965 Caborn Road Mount Vernon, IN 47620 812-464-1839 M-Th 812-985-7309 Fr-Sun www.flyboyaccessories.com http://stores.ebay.com/flyboyaccessories ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)warpdriveonline.com>
Subject: Re: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND
Date: Dec 08, 2008
On Dec 8, 2008, at 8:11 AM, Tim Bryan wrote: > And so if they are still lurking, I would love to have this chart > for the O-360-A1A. > > Not from Lycoming, but this is what I came up with using Kevin Horton's spreadsheet. I made it for my use with a fixed pitch prop so it isn't as suitable for the lower RPMs typically used with a constant speed. http://n5lp.net/Power.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Hilditch" <wmjack1(at)t3cs.net>
Subject: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND
Date: Dec 08, 2008
You might want to have a look at this URL: http://3limafoxtrot.com/doc/PercentPowerEntriesO360A.pdf Jack Hilditch RV-9A project _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 10:27 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND Should be almost identical, since both engines have the same cylinders and power ratings. Tim Bryan wrote: And so if they are still lurking, I would love to have this chart for the O-360-A1A. Tim Bryan RV-6 Flying N616TB over 120 hours now From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of J Riffel Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 8:34 AM Subject: RV-List: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND A kind sole at Lycoming saw the RV post and sent this - which is EXACTLY what I was looking for. So I thought I'd share: Fuel and Power Chart - Lycoming Model IO-360-B1B, -B1D, -B1E, -E1A, - B1A Press. Alt. 1000 Ft Std. Alt. Temp. F=BA 99 Hp - 55% Rated Fuel Flow 45 Lb/Hr RPM & MAP 117 HP - 65% Rated Fuel Flow 50 Lb/Hr RPM & MAP 135 HP-75%Rated Fuel Flow 60 Lb/Hr RPM & MAP 2100 2200 2300 2400 2100 2200 2300 2400 2200 2300 2400 SL 59 21.2 20.7 20.2 19.7 24.0 23.4 22.8 22.2 26.0 25.4 24.7 1 55 21.0 20.5 20.0 19.5 23.8 23.2 22.5 22.0 25.8 25.1 24.5 2 52 20.7 20.3 19.7 19.3 23.5 22.9 22.3 21.8 25.5 24.8 24.2 3 48 20.5 20.0 19.5 19.1 23.2 22.7 22.0 21.5 25.3 24.6 24.0 4 45 20.3 19.8 19.3 18.9 23.0 22.5 21.8 21.3 25.1 24.3 23.8 5 41 20.0 19.6 19.1 18.6 22.7 22.2 21.6 21.1 FT 24.1 23.5 6 38 19.8 19.4 18.9 18.4 22.5 22.0 21.3 20.9 FT 23.3 7 34 19.6 19.2 18.7 18.2 22.0 21.8 21.1 20.7 FT 8 31 19.3 18.9 18.4 18.0 FT 21.5 20.9 20.5 9 27 19.1 18.6 18.3 17.8 17.4 FT 10 23 18.9 18.4 18.1 17.6 17.2 11 19 18.6 FT 17.8 17.4 17.0 12 16 18.4 FT 17.1 16.8 13 12 FT To Maintain constant power, correct manifold pressure approximately 0.17"hg. For each 10F variation in carburetor air temperature from standard altitude temperature. Add manifold pressure for air temperatures above standard; subtract for temperatures below standard <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List <http://forums.matronics.com> http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontributi on href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navig ator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <n212pj(at)gmail.com>
Subject: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND
Date: Dec 08, 2008
Power increase as you go higher? I'm confused (which is normal). _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Hilditch Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 8:04 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND You might want to have a look at this URL: http://3limafoxtrot.com/doc/PercentPowerEntriesO360A.pdf Jack Hilditch RV-9A project _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 10:27 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND Should be almost identical, since both engines have the same cylinders and power ratings. Tim Bryan wrote: And so if they are still lurking, I would love to have this chart for the O-360-A1A. Tim Bryan RV-6 Flying N616TB over 120 hours now From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of J Riffel Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 8:34 AM Subject: RV-List: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND A kind sole at Lycoming saw the RV post and sent this - which is EXACTLY what I was looking for. So I thought I'd share: Fuel and Power Chart - Lycoming Model IO-360-B1B, -B1D, -B1E, -E1A, - B1A Press. Alt. 1000 Ft Std. Alt. Temp. F=BA 99 Hp - 55% Rated Fuel Flow 45 Lb/Hr RPM & MAP 117 HP - 65% Rated Fuel Flow 50 Lb/Hr RPM & MAP 135 HP-75%Rated Fuel Flow 60 Lb/Hr RPM & MAP 2100 2200 2300 2400 2100 2200 2300 2400 2200 2300 2400 SL 59 21.2 20.7 20.2 19.7 24.0 23.4 22.8 22.2 26.0 25.4 24.7 1 55 21.0 20.5 20.0 19.5 23.8 23.2 22.5 22.0 25.8 25.1 24.5 2 52 20.7 20.3 19.7 19.3 23.5 22.9 22.3 21.8 25.5 24.8 24.2 3 48 20.5 20.0 19.5 19.1 23.2 22.7 22.0 21.5 25.3 24.6 24.0 4 45 20.3 19.8 19.3 18.9 23.0 22.5 21.8 21.3 25.1 24.3 23.8 5 41 20.0 19.6 19.1 18.6 22.7 22.2 21.6 21.1 FT 24.1 23.5 6 38 19.8 19.4 18.9 18.4 22.5 22.0 21.3 20.9 FT 23.3 7 34 19.6 19.2 18.7 18.2 22.0 21.8 21.1 20.7 FT 8 31 19.3 18.9 18.4 18.0 FT 21.5 20.9 20.5 9 27 19.1 18.6 18.3 17.8 17.4 FT 10 23 18.9 18.4 18.1 17.6 17.2 11 19 18.6 FT 17.8 17.4 17.0 12 16 18.4 FT 17.1 16.8 13 12 FT To Maintain constant power, correct manifold pressure approximately 0.17"hg. For each 10F variation in carburetor air temperature from standard altitude temperature. Add manifold pressure for air temperatures above standard; subtract for temperatures below standard <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List <http://forums.matronics.com> http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontri bution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2008
From: Kyrilian Dyer <kyrilian_av(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pitot testing
Charlie, Pitot-static error is made up of instrument error and position error (gener ally of the static source).- Instrument error is found on the ground with test equipment attached to the pitot and static probes (91.441 defines the requirements for the altimeter for IFR flight).- The position error is f ound in flight (23.1323 sets the limits for Part 23 airplanes). Your high indicated airspeed at higher speeds is probably due to the static port seeing too low of a pressure because of the way in which the air flow s over it in high-speed flight, rather than the pitot probe seeing too much .- I'm guessing your altimeter is way off too (reading higher than you ac tually are).- For an example airplane flying 150 kts at 8000 ft a static pressure error leading to a 5 kt airspeed discrepancy would make your altim eter off by 86 ft.- A static error causing 5 kt airspeed error at 250 kts would mean a 147 ft altitude error.- Everyone likes to compare airspeed, but it's good to ensure the altimeter is telling you the truth too! Tuning the static port is an art requiring trial and error (perhaps using t he trials of others for similar type aircraft).- The static port may be t uned with raised nubs and plates placed in front of or behind the port, or the port itself may be raised above the skin (a pop rivet is sometimes used ).- Perhaps others can provide RV-specific recommendations for tuning the static port. As Kevin Horton has noted, simply averaging the groundspeed from four direc tions to derive true airspeed is fraught with error, especially when the wi nds are high.- I suggest you use the link he provided.- It's not hard t o follow this method, and it'll give you correct results.- Use the static port to tune your airspeed, and your altimeter will give you a better answ er too! Note that the error is not constant with airspeed--it may be near zero at e conomy cruise speed, and quite significant at high and low speeds.- Flyin g past a TV antenna tower or mountaintop at various altitudes can be used t o compare indicated altitude at different airspeeds (be careful!)- For in stance, if you know that your airspeed reads correctly at 100 kts, then you can compare indicated altitude at this speed with indicated altitude at hi gh speed as you fly at a known constant altitude past a mountaintop or towe r. Hope this is useful. -Have fun and be safe! - Kyrilian --- On Wed, 12/3/08, Charles Brame wrote: I find it interesting that Ralph's manometer tests also show a higher than actual airspeed indication at high speeds. I am at a loss as to why this ha ppens and wonder if others have noticed similar errors.- Is this typical of Van's airspeed instruments? An acquaintance with an RV-9 and a Dynon system says his airspeed indications are very accurate at all speeds and altitudes.- Inquiring minds want to know. Charlie BrameRV-6A -N11CBSan Antonio ----------------------------------------------------------------- =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND
Date: Dec 09, 2008
Pretty much any aircraft piston engine power chart shows that the power does increase with altitude, IF the manifold pressure and rpm are constant. But, if you have full throttle, the manifold pressure will decrease with altitude, and thus the power will decrease. Kevin Horton On 8-Dec-08, at 11:21 , John Jessen wrote: > Power increase as you go higher? I'm confused (which is normal). > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > ] On Behalf Of Jack Hilditch > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 8:04 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND > > You might want to have a look at this URL: > > http://3limafoxtrot.com/doc/PercentPowerEntriesO360A.pdf > > > Jack Hilditch > RV-9A project > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > ] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 10:27 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND > > Should be almost identical, since both engines have the same > cylinders and power ratings. > > Tim Bryan wrote: > And so if they are still lurking, I would love to have this chart > for the O-360-A1A. > > Tim Bryan > RV-6 Flying > N616TB over 120 hours now > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > ] On Behalf Of J Riffel > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 8:34 AM > To: rv-list > Subject: RV-List: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND > > A kind sole at Lycoming saw the RV post and sent this - which is > EXACTLY what I was looking for. So I thought I'd share: > > -- Kevin Horton Ottawa, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 09, 2008
From: "Ulrich Wiedmann" <uw_matronics(at)wiedmann.org>
Subject: Re: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND
Note that the tables are given for standard temperature: meaning at higher altitudes the temperature is lower. Same manifold pressure + lower temperature = more air. This is probably the main factor in increased power at altitude. Lower pumping losses (because maintaining a given manifold pressure at a higher altitude requires a more open throttle) contribute. On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 3:29 AM, Kevin Horton wrote: > > Pretty much any aircraft piston engine power chart shows that the power > does increase with altitude, IF the manifold pressure and rpm are constant. > But, if you have full throttle, the manifold pressure will decrease with > altitude, and thus the power will decrease. > > Kevin Horton > > > On 8-Dec-08, at 11:21 , John Jessen wrote: > > Power increase as you go higher? I'm confused (which is normal). >> >> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: >> owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Hilditch >> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 8:04 AM >> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: RE: RV-List: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND >> >> You might want to have a look at this URL: >> >> http://3limafoxtrot.com/doc/PercentPowerEntriesO360A.pdf >> >> >> Jack Hilditch >> RV-9A project >> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: >> owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen >> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 10:27 AM >> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV-List: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND >> >> Should be almost identical, since both engines have the same cylinders and >> power ratings. >> >> Tim Bryan wrote: >> And so if they are still lurking, I would love to have this chart for the >> O-360-A1A. >> >> Tim Bryan >> RV-6 Flying >> N616TB over 120 hours now >> >> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: >> owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of J Riffel >> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 8:34 AM >> To: rv-list >> Subject: RV-List: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND >> >> A kind sole at Lycoming saw the RV post and sent this - which is EXACTLY >> what I was looking for. So I thought I'd share: >> >> >> >> > > -- > Kevin Horton > Ottawa, Canada > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND
From: Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au>
Date: Dec 10, 2008
> And so if they are still lurking, I would love to have this chart for > the O-360-A1A. > And for an O-320D1A.... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Brick" <jebrick(at)comcast.net>
Subject: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND
Date: Dec 09, 2008
At 65% and 2100 rpm, power stays constant while climbing at FT. Seems to contradict Kevin Horton. Is the chart correct? Fuel and Power Chart - Lycoming Model IO-360-B1B, -B1D, -B1E, -E1A, - B1A Press. Alt. 1000 Ft Std. Alt. Temp. Fo 99 Hp - 55% Rated Fuel Flow 45 Lb/Hr RPM & MAP 117 HP - 65% Rated Fuel Flow 50 Lb/Hr RPM & MAP 135 HP-75%Rated Fuel Flow 60 Lb/Hr RPM & MAP 2100 2200 2300 2400 2100 2200 2300 2400 2200 2300 2400 SL 59 21.2 20.7 20.2 19.7 24.0 23.4 22.8 22.2 26.0 25.4 24.7 1 55 21.0 20.5 20.0 19.5 23.8 23.2 22.5 22.0 25.8 25.1 24.5 2 52 20.7 20.3 19.7 19.3 23.5 22.9 22.3 21.8 25.5 24.8 24.2 3 48 20.5 20.0 19.5 19.1 23.2 22.7 22.0 21.5 25.3 24.6 24.0 4 45 20.3 19.8 19.3 18.9 23.0 22.5 21.8 21.3 25.1 24.3 23.8 5 41 20.0 19.6 19.1 18.6 22.7 22.2 21.6 21.1 FT 24.1 23.5 6 38 19.8 19.4 18.9 18.4 22.5 22.0 21.3 20.9 FT 23.3 7 34 19.6 19.2 18.7 18.2 22.0 21.8 21.1 20.7 FT 8 31 19.3 18.9 18.4 18.0 FT 21.5 20.9 20.5 9 27 19.1 18.6 18.3 17.8 17.4 FT 10 23 18.9 18.4 18.1 17.6 17.2 11 19 18.6 FT 17.8 17.4 17.0 12 16 18.4 FT 17.1 16.8 13 12 FT To Maintain constant power, correct manifold pressure approximately 0.17"hg. For each 10F variation in carburetor air temperature from standard altitude temperature. Add manifold pressure for air temperatures above standard; subtract for temperatures below standard -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 3:30 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND Pretty much any aircraft piston engine power chart shows that the power does increase with altitude, IF the manifold pressure and rpm are constant. But, if you have full throttle, the manifold pressure will decrease with altitude, and thus the power will decrease. Kevin Horton ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Perkinson" <bobperk90658(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: AE FPS-Plus Help Wanted
Date: Dec 10, 2008
I recently obtained, second-handedly, an Aircraft Extras FPS-Plus (One of the Earlier Flap Position modules). The seller didnt have the Users manual so I am asking if anyone out there has an electronic copy of the Users Manual, or detailed operating instructions for this controller that they could send me. Any and all help is appreciated. Bob Perkinson RV-9 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Dec 10, 2008
Subject: AE FPS-Plus Help Wanted
Bob, You can find all the documentation on their website. http://www.aircraftextras.com/FPS-Plus.htm Michael Sausen -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Perkinson Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:12 PM Subject: RV-List: AE FPS-Plus Help Wanted I recently obtained, second-handedly, an Aircraft Extras FPS-Plus (One of the Earlier Flap Position modules). The seller didnt have the Users manual so I am asking if anyone out there has an electronic copy of the Users Manual, or detailed operating instructions for this controller that they could send me. Any and all help is appreciated. Bob Perkinson RV-9 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2008
From: "Ulrich Wiedmann" <uw_matronics(at)wiedmann.org>
Subject: Re: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND
The 65% on the chart is rated fuel flow (and power), not a throttle setting. As your altitude increases, you're going to be increasing your throttle setting to maintain 65% fuel flow at 2100 rpm, eventually reaching FT at 8000 feet. Above 8000 feet, you will no longer be able to maintain 65% fuel flow/power at 2100 rpm. On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 1:57 PM, John Brick wrote: > > At 65% and 2100 rpm, power stays constant while climbing at FT. Seems to > contradict Kevin Horton. Is the chart correct? > > > Fuel and Power Chart - Lycoming Model IO-360-B1B, -B1D, -B1E, -E1A, - B1A > Press. Alt. 1000 Ft Std. Alt. Temp. Fo 99 Hp - 55% Rated Fuel Flow > 45 Lb/Hr > RPM & MAP 117 HP - 65% Rated Fuel Flow 50 Lb/Hr RPM & MAP 135 > HP-75%Rated > Fuel Flow 60 Lb/Hr RPM & MAP > 2100 2200 2300 2400 2100 2200 2300 2400 > 2200 2300 2400 > SL 59 21.2 20.7 20.2 19.7 24.0 23.4 22.8 > 22.2 26.0 25.4 24.7 > 1 55 21.0 20.5 20.0 19.5 23.8 23.2 22.5 > 22.0 25.8 25.1 24.5 > 2 52 20.7 20.3 19.7 19.3 23.5 22.9 22.3 > 21.8 25.5 24.8 24.2 > 3 48 20.5 20.0 19.5 19.1 23.2 22.7 22.0 > 21.5 25.3 24.6 24.0 > 4 45 20.3 19.8 19.3 18.9 23.0 22.5 21.8 > 21.3 25.1 24.3 23.8 > 5 41 20.0 19.6 19.1 18.6 22.7 22.2 21.6 > 21.1 FT 24.1 23.5 > 6 38 19.8 19.4 18.9 18.4 22.5 22.0 21.3 > 20.9 FT 23.3 > 7 34 19.6 19.2 18.7 18.2 22.0 21.8 21.1 > 20.7 FT > 8 31 19.3 18.9 18.4 18.0 FT 21.5 20.9 > 20.5 > 9 27 19.1 18.6 18.3 17.8 17.4 FT > 10 23 18.9 18.4 18.1 17.6 17.2 > 11 19 18.6 FT 17.8 17.4 17.0 > 12 16 18.4 FT 17.1 16.8 > 13 12 FT > To Maintain constant power, correct manifold pressure approximately > 0.17"hg. > For each 10F variation in carburetor air temperature from standard altitude > temperature. Add manifold pressure for air temperatures above standard; > subtract for temperatures below standard > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 3:30 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND > > > Pretty much any aircraft piston engine power chart shows that the > power does increase with altitude, IF the manifold pressure and rpm > are constant. But, if you have full throttle, the manifold pressure > will decrease with altitude, and thus the power will decrease. > > Kevin Horton > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2008
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND
I you believe the temperature correction that Lycoming describes on their power charts, then the colder temperature only explains about 20% of the hp increase with altitude. For example, consider 2500 rpm and 23" MP, using Lycoming curve 10350A for the O-360-A series engines (note that the current Lycoming Operators Manual has a newer power chart, which gives slightly different results, but I don't have that one at hand tonight). sea level, std temperature (15 deg C): 131 hp 5000 ft, std temperature (5.1 deg C): 141 hp 5000 ft, 15 deg C: 139 hp I get similar results using Lycoming curve 12700-A for the IO-360-A series engines. Kevin Horton Ulrich Wiedmann wrote: > Note that the tables are given for standard temperature: meaning at higher > altitudes the temperature is lower. Same manifold pressure + lower > temperature = more air. This is probably the main factor in increased power > at altitude. > > Lower pumping losses (because maintaining a given manifold pressure at a > higher altitude requires a more open throttle) contribute. > > On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 3:29 AM, Kevin Horton wrote: > > >> >> Pretty much any aircraft piston engine power chart shows that the power >> does increase with altitude, IF the manifold pressure and rpm are constant. >> But, if you have full throttle, the manifold pressure will decrease with >> altitude, and thus the power will decrease. >> >> Kevin Horton >> >> >> On 8-Dec-08, at 11:21 , John Jessen wrote: >> >> Power increase as you go higher? I'm confused (which is normal). >> >>> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: >>> owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Hilditch >>> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 8:04 AM >>> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >>> Subject: RE: RV-List: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND >>> >>> You might want to have a look at this URL: >>> >>> http://3limafoxtrot.com/doc/PercentPowerEntriesO360A.pdf >>> >>> >>> Jack Hilditch >>> RV-9A project >>> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: >>> owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen >>> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 10:27 AM >>> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >>> Subject: Re: RV-List: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND >>> >>> Should be almost identical, since both engines have the same cylinders and >>> power ratings. >>> >>> Tim Bryan wrote: >>> And so if they are still lurking, I would love to have this chart for the >>> O-360-A1A. >>> >>> Tim Bryan >>> RV-6 Flying >>> N616TB over 120 hours now >>> >>> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: >>> owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of J Riffel >>> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 8:34 AM >>> To: rv-list >>> Subject: RV-List: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND >>> >>> A kind sole at Lycoming saw the RV post and sent this - which is EXACTLY >>> what I was looking for. So I thought I'd share: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> Kevin Horton >> Ottawa, Canada >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (Grounded) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2008
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND
Actually, for a constant power of 65%, at 2100 rpm, the chart below shows that you need less MP as you climb. At sea level, you need 24.0 inches, and at 7000 ft you only need 22.0 inches of MP. This means that if you adjusted the throttle to keep MP constant as you climbed, the power would increase. It confirms what I have been saying. Kevin Horton John Brick wrote: > > At 65% and 2100 rpm, power stays constant while climbing at FT. Seems to > contradict Kevin Horton. Is the chart correct? > > > Fuel and Power Chart - Lycoming Model IO-360-B1B, -B1D, -B1E, -E1A, - B1A > Press. Alt. 1000 Ft Std. Alt. Temp. Fo 99 Hp - 55% Rated Fuel Flow 45 Lb/Hr > RPM & MAP 117 HP - 65% Rated Fuel Flow 50 Lb/Hr RPM & MAP 135 HP-75%Rated > Fuel Flow 60 Lb/Hr RPM & MAP > 2100 2200 2300 2400 2100 2200 2300 2400 2200 2300 2400 > SL 59 21.2 20.7 20.2 19.7 24.0 23.4 22.8 22.2 26.0 25.4 24.7 > 1 55 21.0 20.5 20.0 19.5 23.8 23.2 22.5 22.0 25.8 25.1 24.5 > 2 52 20.7 20.3 19.7 19.3 23.5 22.9 22.3 21.8 25.5 24.8 24.2 > 3 48 20.5 20.0 19.5 19.1 23.2 22.7 22.0 21.5 25.3 24.6 24.0 > 4 45 20.3 19.8 19.3 18.9 23.0 22.5 21.8 21.3 25.1 24.3 23.8 > 5 41 20.0 19.6 19.1 18.6 22.7 22.2 21.6 21.1 FT 24.1 23.5 > 6 38 19.8 19.4 18.9 18.4 22.5 22.0 21.3 20.9 FT 23.3 > 7 34 19.6 19.2 18.7 18.2 22.0 21.8 21.1 20.7 FT > 8 31 19.3 18.9 18.4 18.0 FT 21.5 20.9 20.5 > 9 27 19.1 18.6 18.3 17.8 17.4 FT > 10 23 18.9 18.4 18.1 17.6 17.2 > 11 19 18.6 FT 17.8 17.4 17.0 > 12 16 18.4 FT 17.1 16.8 > 13 12 FT > To Maintain constant power, correct manifold pressure approximately 0.17"hg. > For each 10F variation in carburetor air temperature from standard altitude > temperature. Add manifold pressure for air temperatures above standard; > subtract for temperatures below standard > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 3:30 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND > > > Pretty much any aircraft piston engine power chart shows that the > power does increase with altitude, IF the manifold pressure and rpm > are constant. But, if you have full throttle, the manifold pressure > will decrease with altitude, and thus the power will decrease. > > Kevin Horton > > -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (Grounded) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2008
From: "J Riffel" <riffeljl(at)gmail.com>
Subject: 1st Flight Test Plan?
I'd appreciate any constructive input on my plan for my 1st Flight: ____________________ 1. *Ground* 1. Equipment: 1. Fire extinguisher 2. Hatchet 3. Knife 4. Gloves 5. Phillips screwdriver 2. monitor freq: *122.85* 3. *Record Launch Time: __________________________________* 4. Prompt/record: *Elapsed* *Oil Press* *Oil Temp* *EGT1* *EGT2* *EGT3* *EGT4* *CHT1* *CHT2* *CHT3* *CHT4* *2 min* *5 min* *10 min* *15 min* *20 min* *25 min* *30 min* 5. *IF CHT => 400=B0F, advise LANDING* 6. *30 Minutes* 1. Prompt for 1. RPM: ______________ 2. MAP: ______________ 3. AIRSPEED: _________ 2. Remind to LAND 7. *Record Landing Time: _______________* 8. IF CRASH: 1. Dial 911 & give location 2. *Save Pilot ' aircraft is secondary* 3. Gloves, knife, hatchet, Fire Extinguisher 4. Canopy latch rotates *CLOCKWISE* to OPEN 5. *MASTER OFF (lower left panel)* 6. *Fuel Selector: (center, front of spar)* 1. *OFF (aft left)* 7. Seat belts: P*ULL FLAP* 8. Shoulder Harness: *PULL TABS* to LOOSEN 9. Cowl: 1. Oil Door for top cowl hinge wires on firewall 2. Phillips screwdriver for hinge wires on cowl halves 10. Battery located on pilot side firewall 2. *Chase* 1. Monitor *122.85* 2. Com check: Ground/TestFlight 3. Depart first; take station *EAST *of runway 4. Take up =BD mile trail 5. Check Fluids/Flapping Parts 6. *If TestFlight rocks wings:* 1. Come up on right wing till TestFlight acknowledges 2. Fly under to left wing, then over top to right wing 3. Signal TestFlight: 1. OK: Thumbsup 2. Problems: cut Throat to land 7. *Emergencies:* 1. Com Failure: 1. Come up on right wing 2. Point to Ears 2. Parts/Fluid/fire: 1. Come up on right wing 2. Cut Throat to indicate landing 3. Remind pilot: 1. *Master Off* 2. *FUEL OFF* 3. Canopy Unlatched ' but closed 3. Crash: 1. Tell Ground location 2. Circle till Ground arrives 3. *TestFlight* 1. Equipment: 1. Fire extinguisher 2. Hatchet 3. Knife 2. Com:* 122.85* 3. Com Check: Ground/Chase 4. Ensure EIS configuration set for oil temp 5. Retest Brakes on taxi/runup 6. Depart after Chase 7. TAKEOFF: 1. FULL POWER, FULL RICH (lean only to smooth engine) 2. 70-75% power 1. 3000', 2400/24" 8. Verify Airspeed registering 9. Boost Pump Off 10. Orbit, traffic pattern direction, =BD mile radius of airport 11. *IF CHT => 400=B0F, LAND* 12. Tasks 1. Straight & Level: 1. Both trims in neutral 2. Record vsi/roll: _____________________________________________________ 3. Adjust for level 2. Tell Ground OilT/P, EGTs, CHTs 3. Check w/ Chase that area is clear 4. Stall 1. Slow to mushy controls/buffet 2. Airspeed: _________ 3. Check: OilT/P, EGTs, CHTs 4. Flaps: 20% (two marks) 5. Airspeed: _________ 6. Check: OilT/P, EGTs, CHTs 7. Flaps: FULL 8. Airspeed: _________ 9. Check: OilT/P, EGTs, CHTs 5. Airspeed Check: 1. Setup Airspeed to 120 kts 2. Call Chase to right side 3. Compare airspeeds with Chase 6. Land 1. Downwind: 1.5 times clean stall (80-90 kts?) 2. Base: 20=B0 flaps 3. Stay on mains if possible 13. *Signals:* 1. *Ears:* com failure 2. *Cut Throat:* Land 3. *Rock Wings:* Chase come up to look over TestFlight ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 11, 2008
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: 1st Flight Test Plan?
In my experience if your engine is new or newly overhauled your 400 Deg lim it for CHT on the first flight is overly conservative. On my first flight w ith a new O-360 from Van's the CHT's, which now approach 400 deg only in a hot day full power climb at near gross, went over 400 deg on the initial cl imb out. Since Lycoming sets 450 deg as the NTE if I recall correctly, you can safely use that temp as your limit. Just my opinion . Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 530 hours ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Riffel" <riffeljl(at)gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:37:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RV-List: 1st Flight Test Plan? I'd appreciate any constructive input on my plan for my 1st Flight: ____________________ 1. Ground 1. Equipment: 1. Fire extinguisher 2. Hatchet 3. Knife 4. Gloves 5. Phillips screwdriver 2. monitor freq: 122.85 3. Record Launch Time: __________________________________ 4. Prompt/record: Elapsed Oil Press Oil Temp EGT1 EGT2 EGT3 EGT4 CHT1 CHT2 CHT3 CHT4 2 min 5 min 10 min 15 min 20 min 25 min 30 min 5. IF CHT => 400 =C2=B0F, advise LANDING 6. 30 Minutes 1. Prompt for 1. RPM: ______________ 2. MAP: ______________ 3. AIRSPEED: _________ 2. Remind to LAND 7. Record Landing Time: _______________ 8. IF CRASH: 1. Dial 911 & give location 2. Save Pilot =93 aircraft is secondary 3. Gloves, knife, hatchet, Fire Extinguisher 4. Canopy latch rotates CLOCKWISE to OPEN 5. MASTER OFF (lower left panel) 6. Fuel Selector: (center, front of spar) 1. OFF (aft left) 7. Seat belts: P ULL FLAP 8. Shoulder Harness: PULL TABS to LOOSEN 9. Cowl: 1. Oil Door for top cowl hinge wires on firewall 2. Phillips screwdriver for hinge wires on cowl halves 10. Battery located on pilot side firewall 2. Chase 1. Monitor 122.85 2. Com check: Ground/TestFlight 3. Depart first; take station EAST of runway 4. Take up =C2=BD mile trail 5. Check Fluids/Flapping Parts 6. If TestFlight rocks wings: 1. Come up on right wing till TestFlight acknowledges 2. Fly under to left wing, then over top to right wing 3. Signal TestFlight: 1. OK: Thumbsup 2. Problems: cut Throat to land 7. Emergencies: 1. Com Failure: 1. Come up on right wing 2. Point to Ears 2. Parts/Fluid/fire: 1. Come up on right wing 2. Cut Throat to indicate landing 3. Remind pilot: 1. Master Off 2. FUEL OFF 3. Canopy Unlatched =93 but closed 3. Crash: 1. Tell Ground location 2. Circle till Ground arrives 3. TestFlight 1. Equipment: 1. Fire extinguisher 2. Hatchet 3. Knife 2. Com: 122.85 3. Com Check: Ground/Chase 4. Ensure EIS configuration set for oil temp 5. Retest Brakes on taxi/runup 6. Depart after Chase 7. TAKEOFF: 1. FULL POWER, FULL RICH (lean only to smooth engine) 2. 70-75% power 1. 3000', 2400/24" 8. Verify Airspeed registering 9. Boost Pump Off 10. Orbit, traffic pattern direction, =C2=BD mile radius of airport 11. IF CHT => 400 =C2=B0F, LAND 12. Tasks 1. Straight & Level: 1. Both trims in neutral 2. Record vsi/roll: _____________________________________________________ 3. Adjust for level 2. Tell Ground OilT/P, EGTs, CHTs 3. Check w/ Chase that area is clear 4. Stall 1. Slow to mushy controls/buffet 2. Airspeed: _________ 3. Check: OilT/P, EGTs, CHTs 4. Flaps: 20% (two marks) 5. Airspeed: _________ 6. Check: OilT/P, EGTs, CHTs 7. Flaps: FULL 8. Airspeed: _________ 9. Check: OilT/P, EGTs, CHTs 5. Airspeed Check: 1. Setup Airspeed to 120 kts 2. Call Chase to right side 3. Compare airspeeds with Chase 6. Land 1. Downwind: 1.5 times clean stall (80-90 kts?) 2. Base: 20=C2=B0 flaps 3. Stay on mains if possible 13. Signals: 1. Ears: com failure 2. Cut Throat: Land 3. Rock Wings: Chase come up to look over TestFlight ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2008
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: 1st Flight Test Plan?
IMHO, 400 degrees should be a take action point, either add airspeed, fuel or reduce power, as appropriate to the situation. I would use 425 as a never exceed limit, as metal deformation can occur above that. Lycoming's numbers are WAY too hot if you want your cylinders and rings to survive. This time of year there shouldn't be any problem staying below 400. Initial climb out should be as flat and fast as terrain and obstacles permit for max cooling during first high power run. Kelly McMullen A&P/IA Tech Counselor HCRV6(at)comcast.net wrote: > In my experience if your engine is new or newly overhauled your 400 > Deg limit for CHT on the first flight is overly conservative. On my > first flight with a new O-360 from Van's the CHT's, which now approach > 400 deg only in a hot day full power climb at near gross, went over > 400 deg on the initial climb out. Since Lycoming sets 450 deg as the > NTE if I recall correctly, you can safely use that temp as your > limit. Just my opinion. > > Harry Crosby > RV-6 N16CX, 530 hours > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J Riffel" <riffeljl(at)gmail.com> > To: "rv-list" > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:37:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: RV-List: 1st Flight Test Plan? > > I'd appreciate any constructive input on my plan for my 1st Flight: > > ____________________ > > > 1. > > *Ground* > > 1. > > Equipment: > > 1. > > Fire extinguisher > > 2. > > Hatchet > > 3. > > Knife > > 4. > > Gloves > > 5. > > Phillips screwdriver > > 2. > > monitor freq: *122.85* > > 3. > > *Record Launch Time: __________________________________* > > 4. > > Prompt/record: > > *Elapsed* > > > > *Oil Press* > > > > *Oil Temp* > > > > *EGT1* > > > > *EGT2* > > > > *EGT3* > > > > *EGT4* > > > > *CHT1* > > > > *CHT2* > > > > *CHT3* > > > > *CHT4* > > *2 min* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *5 min* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *10 min* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *15 min* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *20 min* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *25 min* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *30 min* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. > > *IF CHT => 400F, advise LANDING* > > 6. > > *30 Minutes* > > 1. > > Prompt for > > 1. > > RPM: ______________ > > 2. > > MAP: ______________ > > 3. > > AIRSPEED: _________ > > 2. > > Remind to LAND > > 7. > > *Record Landing Time: _______________* > > 8. > > IF CRASH: > > 1. > > Dial 911 & give location > > 2. > > *Save Pilot aircraft is secondary* > > 3. > > Gloves, knife, hatchet, Fire Extinguisher > > 4. > > Canopy latch rotates *CLOCKWISE* to OPEN > > 5. > > *MASTER OFF (lower left panel)* > > 6. > > *Fuel Selector: (center, front of spar)* > > 1. > > *OFF (aft left)* > > 7. > > Seat belts: P*ULL FLAP* > > 8. > > Shoulder Harness: *PULL TABS* to LOOSEN > > 9. > > Cowl: > > 1. > > Oil Door for top cowl hinge wires on firewall > > 2. > > Phillips screwdriver for hinge wires on cowl > halves > > 10. > > Battery located on pilot side firewall > > 2. > > *Chase* > > 1. > > Monitor *122.85* > > 2. > > Com check: Ground/TestFlight > > 3. > > Depart first; take station *EAST *of runway > > 4. > > Take up mile trail > > 5. > > Check Fluids/Flapping Parts > > 6. > > *If TestFlight rocks wings:* > > 1. > > Come up on right wing till TestFlight acknowledges > > 2. > > Fly under to left wing, then over top to right wing > > 3. > > Signal TestFlight: > > 1. > > OK: Thumbsup > > 2. > > Problems: cut Throat to land > > 7. > > *Emergencies:* > > 1. > > Com Failure: > > 1. > > Come up on right wing > > 2. > > Point to Ears > > 2. > > Parts/Fluid/fire: > > 1. > > Come up on right wing > > 2. > > Cut Throat to indicate landing > > 3. > > Remind pilot: > > 1. > > *Master Off* > > 2. > > *FUEL OFF* > > 3. > > Canopy Unlatched but closed > > 3. > > Crash: > > 1. > > Tell Ground location > > 2. > > Circle till Ground arrives > > 3. > > *TestFlight* > > 1. > > Equipment: > > 1. > > Fire extinguisher > > 2. > > Hatchet > > 3. > > Knife > > 2. > > Com:* 122.85* > > 3. > > Com Check: Ground/Chase > > 4. > > Ensure EIS configuration set for oil temp > > 5. > > Retest Brakes on taxi/runup > > 6. > > Depart after Chase > > 7. > > TAKEOFF: > > 1. > > FULL POWER, FULL RICH (lean only to smooth engine) > > 2. > > 70-75% power > > 1. > > 3000', 2400/24" > > 8. > > Verify Airspeed registering > > 9. > > Boost Pump Off > > 10. > > Orbit, traffic pattern direction, mile radius of airport > > 11. > > *IF CHT => 400F, LAND* > > 12. > > Tasks > > 1. > > Straight & Level: > > 1. > > Both trims in neutral > > 2. > > Record vsi/roll: > _____________________________________________________ > > 3. > > Adjust for level > > 2. > > Tell Ground OilT/P, EGTs, CHTs > > 3. > > Check w/ Chase that area is clear > > 4. > > Stall > > 1. > > Slow to mushy controls/buffet > > 2. > > Airspeed: _________ > > 3. > > Check: OilT/P, EGTs, CHTs > > 4. > > Flaps: 20% (two marks) > > 5. > > Airspeed: _________ > > 6. > > Check: OilT/P, EGTs, CHTs > > 7. > > Flaps: FULL > > 8. > > Airspeed: _________ > > 9. > > Check: OilT/P, EGTs, CHTs > > 5. > > Airspeed Check: > > 1. > > Setup Airspeed to 120 kts > > 2. > > Call Chase to right side > > 3. > > Compare airspeeds with Chase > > 6. > > Land > > 1. > > Downwind: 1.5 times clean stall (80-90 kts?) > > 2. > > Base: 20 flaps > > 3. > > Stay on mains if possible > > 13. > > *Signals:* > > 1. > > *Ears:* com failure > > 2. > > *Cut Throat:* Land > > 3. > > *Rock Wings:* Chase come up to look over TestFlight > > * > > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > * > * > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2008
From: scott bilinski <rv8a2001(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 1st Flight Test Plan?
My personal opinion, and I know people will disagree....... that is WAY to much to be concerned about on your first flight, you should be doing nothin g more than flying the plane and monitoring temps. Scope out off field land ing places prior to flight but then again why would you fly further than gl iding distance from the field.........=0Aso just fly 2o minutes, land, chec k for leaks, celebrate and then ease into the below. I do like the "chase" portion though.=0A=0AThe first flight will be exciting enough with out havi ng a check list a mile long to deal with..........unless of course your a f ormer test pilot.........my comments above are for Joe average pilot.=0A=0A Scott =0ARV-8a=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: J Riffel =0ATo: rv-list =0ASent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:37:44 PM=0ASubject: RV-List: 1st Flight Test Plan?=0A=0A=0AI'd appreciate any constructive input on my plan for my 1st Flight:=0A =0A____________________=0A =0A1. Ground=0A1. Equipment: =0A1. Fire extinguisher=0A2. Hatchet=0A3. Knife=0A4. Gloves=0A 5. Phillips screwdriver=0A2. monitor freq: 122.85=0A3. Record Laun ch Time: __________________________________=0A4. Prompt/record:=0AElapse d Oil Press Oil Temp EGT1 EGT2 EGT3 EGT4 CHT1 CHT2 CHT3 CHT4 =0A2 min =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A5 min =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A10 min =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A15 min =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A20 min =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A25 min =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A30 min =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A5. IF CHT => 400=B0F, advise L ANDING=0A6. 30 Minutes=0A1. Prompt for =0A1. RPM: ______________ =0A2. MAP: ______________=0A3. AIRSPEED: _________=0A2. Remind to LAND=0A7. Record Landing Time: _______________=0A8. IF CRASH:=0A1. Dial 911 & give location=0A2. Save Pilot ' aircraft is secondary=0A 3. Gloves, knife, hatchet, Fire Extinguisher=0A4. Canopy latch rotate s CLOCKWISE to OPEN=0A5. MASTER OFF (lower left panel)=0A6. Fuel Sele ctor: (center, front of spar)=0A1. OFF (aft left)=0A7. Seat belts: PU LL FLAP=0A8. Shoulder Harness: PULL TABS to LOOSEN=0A9. Cowl:=0A1. Oil Door for top cowl hinge wires on firewall=0A2. Phillips screwdriver for hinge wires on cowl halves=0A10. Battery located on pilot side fire wall=0A2. Chase=0A1. Monitor 122.85=0A2. Com check: Ground/TestFli ght=0A3. Depart first; take station EAST of runway=0A4. Take up =BD m ile trail =0A5. Check Fluids/Flapping Parts=0A6. If TestFlight rocks wings:=0A1. Come up on right wing till TestFlight acknowledges=0A2. F ly under to left wing, then over top to right wing=0A3. Signal TestFligh t:=0A1. OK: Thumbsup=0A2. Problems: cut Throat to land=0A7. Emerge ncies:=0A1. Com Failure:=0A1. Come up on right wing =0A2. Point to Ears=0A2. Parts/Fluid/fire:=0A1. Come up on right wing=0A2. Cut T hroat to indicate landing =0A3. Remind pilot: =0A1. Master Off=0A2 . FUEL OFF=0A3. Canopy Unlatched ' but closed=0A3. Crash:=0A1. T ell Ground location=0A2. Circle till Ground arrives=0A3. TestFlight =0A1. Equipment:=0A1. Fire extinguisher=0A2. Hatchet=0A3. Knife =0A2. Com:122.85=0A3. Com Check: Ground/Chase=0A4. Ensure EIS conf iguration set for oil temp=0A5. Retest Brakes on taxi/runup=0A6. Depa rt after Chase=0A7. TAKEOFF:=0A1. FULL POWER, FULL RICH (lean only to smooth engine)=0A2. 70-75% power =0A1. 3000', 2400/24"=0A8. Verif y Airspeed registering=0A9. Boost Pump Off=0A10. Orbit, traffic patte rn direction, =BD mile radius of airport =0A11. IF CHT => 400=B0F, LAN D=0A12. Tasks=0A1. Straight & Level: =0A1. Both trims in neutral =0A2. Record vsi/roll: _________________________________________________ ____=0A3. Adjust for level=0A2. Tell Ground OilT/P, EGTs, CHTs=0A3 . Check w/ Chase that area is clear=0A4. Stall=0A1. Slow to mushy con trols/buffet=0A2. Airspeed: _________=0A3. Check: OilT/P, EGTs, CHTs =0A4. Flaps: 20% (two marks)=0A5. Airspeed: _________=0A6. Check: OilT/P, EGTs, CHTs=0A7. Flaps: FULL=0A8. Airspeed: _________=0A9. Check: OilT/P, EGTs, CHTs=0A5. Airspeed Check:=0A1. Setup Airspeed to 120 kts=0A2. Call Chase to right side=0A3. Compare airspeeds with Ch ase=0A6. Land=0A1. Downwind: 1.5 times clean stall (80-90 kts?)=0A 2. Base: 20=B0 flaps=0A3. Stay on mains if possible=0A13. Signals:=0A 1. Ears: com failure=0A2. Cut Throat: Land=0A3. Rock Wings: Chase =========================0A -======================== ============0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: 1st Flight Test Plan?
Date: Dec 10, 2008
Hopefully someone else will record all that data. Not the test pilot. Ron Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: J Riffel To: rv-list Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:37 PM Subject: RV-List: 1st Flight Test Plan? I'd appreciate any constructive input on my plan for my 1st Flight: ____________________ 1.. Ground 1.. Equipment: 1.. Fire extinguisher 2.. Hatchet 3.. Knife 4.. Gloves 5.. Phillips screwdriver 2.. monitor freq: 122.85 3.. Record Launch Time: __________________________________ 4.. Prompt/record: Elapsed Oil Press Oil Temp EGT1 EGT2 EGT3 EGT4 CHT1 CHT2 CHT3 CHT4 2 min 5 min 10 min 15 min 20 min 25 min 30 min 5.. IF CHT => 400=B0F, advise LANDING 6.. 30 Minutes 1.. Prompt for 1.. RPM: ______________ 2.. MAP: ______________ 3.. AIRSPEED: _________ 2.. Remind to LAND 7.. Record Landing Time: _______________ 8.. IF CRASH: 1.. Dial 911 & give location 2.. Save Pilot ' aircraft is secondary 3.. Gloves, knife, hatchet, Fire Extinguisher 4.. Canopy latch rotates CLOCKWISE to OPEN 5.. MASTER OFF (lower left panel) 6.. Fuel Selector: (center, front of spar) 1.. OFF (aft left) 7.. Seat belts: PULL FLAP 8.. Shoulder Harness: PULL TABS to LOOSEN 9.. Cowl: 1.. Oil Door for top cowl hinge wires on firewall 2.. Phillips screwdriver for hinge wires on cowl halves 10.. Battery located on pilot side firewall 2.. Chase 1.. Monitor 122.85 2.. Com check: Ground/TestFlight 3.. Depart first; take station EAST of runway 4.. Take up =BD mile trail 5.. Check Fluids/Flapping Parts 6.. If TestFlight rocks wings: 1.. Come up on right wing till TestFlight acknowledges 2.. Fly under to left wing, then over top to right wing 3.. Signal TestFlight: 1.. OK: Thumbsup 2.. Problems: cut Throat to land 7.. Emergencies: 1.. Com Failure: 1.. Come up on right wing 2.. Point to Ears 2.. Parts/Fluid/fire: 1.. Come up on right wing 2.. Cut Throat to indicate landing 3.. Remind pilot: 1.. Master Off 2.. FUEL OFF 3.. Canopy Unlatched ' but closed 3.. Crash: 1.. Tell Ground location 2.. Circle till Ground arrives 3.. TestFlight 1.. Equipment: 1.. Fire extinguisher 2.. Hatchet 3.. Knife 2.. Com: 122.85 3.. Com Check: Ground/Chase 4.. Ensure EIS configuration set for oil temp 5.. Retest Brakes on taxi/runup 6.. Depart after Chase 7.. TAKEOFF: 1.. FULL POWER, FULL RICH (lean only to smooth engine) 2.. 70-75% power 1.. 3000', 2400/24" 8.. Verify Airspeed registering 9.. Boost Pump Off 10.. Orbit, traffic pattern direction, =BD mile radius of airport 11.. IF CHT => 400=B0F, LAND 12.. Tasks 1.. Straight & Level: 1.. Both trims in neutral 2.. Record vsi/roll: _____________________________________________________ 3.. Adjust for level 2.. Tell Ground OilT/P, EGTs, CHTs 3.. Check w/ Chase that area is clear 4.. Stall 1.. Slow to mushy controls/buffet 2.. Airspeed: _________ 3.. Check: OilT/P, EGTs, CHTs 4.. Flaps: 20% (two marks) 5.. Airspeed: _________ 6.. Check: OilT/P, EGTs, CHTs 7.. Flaps: FULL 8.. Airspeed: _________ 9.. Check: OilT/P, EGTs, CHTs 5.. Airspeed Check: 1.. Setup Airspeed to 120 kts 2.. Call Chase to right side 3.. Compare airspeeds with Chase 6.. Land 1.. Downwind: 1.5 times clean stall (80-90 kts?) 2.. Base: 20=B0 flaps 3.. Stay on mains if possible 13.. Signals: 1.. Ears: com failure 2.. Cut Throat: Land 3.. Rock Wings: Chase come up to look over TestFlight ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2008
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: 1st Flight Test Plan?
Wow! I've been flying my RV-6 for 900 hrs and don't think I'd have the presence of mind to punch half the stuff on that list. :-) Sam Buchanan http://thervjournal.com ================== J Riffel wrote: > I'd appreciate any constructive input on my plan for my 1st Flight: > > ____________________ > > > 1. > > *Ground* > 1. > > Equipment: > 1. > > Fire extinguisher > 2. > > Hatchet > 3. > > Knife > 4. > > Gloves > 5. > > Phillips screwdriver > 2. > > monitor freq: *122.85* > 3. > > *Record Launch Time: __________________________________* > 4. > > Prompt/record: > > *Elapsed* > > *Oil Press* > > *Oil Temp* > > *EGT1* > > *EGT2* > > *EGT3* > > *EGT4* > > *CHT1* > > *CHT2* > > *CHT3* > > *CHT4* > > *2 min* > > > > > > > > > > > > *5 min* > > > > > > > > > > > > *10 min* > > > > > > > > > > > > *15 min* > > > > > > > > > > > > *20 min* > > > > > > > > > > > > *25 min* > > > > > > > > > > > > *30 min* > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. > > *IF CHT => 400F, advise LANDING* > 6. > > *30 Minutes* > 1. > > Prompt for > 1. > > RPM: ______________ > 2. > > MAP: ______________ > 3. > > AIRSPEED: _________ > 2. > > Remind to LAND > 7. > > *Record Landing Time: _______________* > 8. > > IF CRASH: > 1. > > Dial 911 & give location > 2. > > *Save Pilot aircraft is secondary* > 3. > > Gloves, knife, hatchet, Fire Extinguisher > 4. > > Canopy latch rotates *CLOCKWISE* to OPEN > 5. > > *MASTER OFF (lower left panel)* > 6. > > *Fuel Selector: (center, front of spar)* > 1. > > *OFF (aft left)* > 7. > > Seat belts: P*ULL FLAP* > 8. > > Shoulder Harness: *PULL TABS* to LOOSEN > 9. > > Cowl: > 1. > > Oil Door for top cowl hinge wires on firewall > 2. > > Phillips screwdriver for hinge wires on cowl halves > 10. > > Battery located on pilot side firewall > 2. > > *Chase* > 1. > > Monitor *122.85* > 2. > > Com check: Ground/TestFlight > 3. > > Depart first; take station *EAST *of runway > 4. > > Take up mile trail > 5. > > Check Fluids/Flapping Parts > 6. > > *If TestFlight rocks wings:* > 1. > > Come up on right wing till TestFlight acknowledges > 2. > > Fly under to left wing, then over top to right wing > 3. > > Signal TestFlight: > 1. > > OK: Thumbsup > 2. > > Problems: cut Throat to land > 7. > > *Emergencies:* > 1. > > Com Failure: > 1. > > Come up on right wing > 2. > > Point to Ears > 2. > > Parts/Fluid/fire: > 1. > > Come up on right wing > 2. > > Cut Throat to indicate landing > 3. > > Remind pilot: > 1. > > *Master Off* > 2. > > *FUEL OFF* > 3. > > Canopy Unlatched but closed > 3. > > Crash: > 1. > > Tell Ground location > 2. > > Circle till Ground arrives > 3. > > *TestFlight* > 1. > > Equipment: > 1. > > Fire extinguisher > 2. > > Hatchet > 3. > > Knife > 2. > > Com:* 122.85* > 3. > > Com Check: Ground/Chase > 4. > > Ensure EIS configuration set for oil temp > 5. > > Retest Brakes on taxi/runup > 6. > > Depart after Chase > 7. > > TAKEOFF: > 1. > > FULL POWER, FULL RICH (lean only to smooth engine) > 2. > > 70-75% power > 1. > > 3000', 2400/24" > 8. > > Verify Airspeed registering > 9. > > Boost Pump Off > 10. > > Orbit, traffic pattern direction, mile radius of airport > 11. > > *IF CHT => 400F, LAND* > 12. > > Tasks > 1. > > Straight & Level: > 1. > > Both trims in neutral > 2. > > Record vsi/roll: > _____________________________________________________ > 3. > > Adjust for level > 2. > > Tell Ground OilT/P, EGTs, CHTs > 3. > > Check w/ Chase that area is clear > 4. > > Stall > 1. > > Slow to mushy controls/buffet > 2. > > Airspeed: _________ > 3. > > Check: OilT/P, EGTs, CHTs > 4. > > Flaps: 20% (two marks) > 5. > > Airspeed: _________ > 6. > > Check: OilT/P, EGTs, CHTs > 7. > > Flaps: FULL > 8. > > Airspeed: _________ > 9. > > Check: OilT/P, EGTs, CHTs > 5. > > Airspeed Check: > 1. > > Setup Airspeed to 120 kts > 2. > > Call Chase to right side > 3. > > Compare airspeeds with Chase > 6. > > Land > 1. > > Downwind: 1.5 times clean stall (80-90 kts?) > 2. > > Base: 20 flaps > 3. > > Stay on mains if possible > 13. > > *Signals:* > 1. > > *Ears:* com failure > 2. > > *Cut Throat:* Land > 3. > > *Rock Wings:* Chase come up to look over TestFlight > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Brick" <jebrick(at)comcast.net>
Subject: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND
Date: Dec 10, 2008
The way I read he chart is that 117 hp (65% of 180) is maintained all the way to 12K, at 2100 rpm even though full throttle was reached at 8000. Is that wrong? Why else would those maps be listed under that heading? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ulrich Wiedmann Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:18 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: IO-360 -b Series Power Chart - FOUND The 65% on the chart is rated fuel flow (and power), not a throttle setting. As your altitude increases, you're going to be increasing your throttle setting to maintain 65% fuel flow at 2100 rpm, eventually reaching FT at 8000 feet. Above 8000 feet, you will no longer be able to maintain 65% fuel flow/power at 2100 rpm. On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 1:57 PM, John Brick < jebrick(at)comcast.net > wrote: > At 65% and 2100 rpm, power stays constant while climbing at FT. Seems to contradict Kevin Horton. Is the chart correct? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: 1st Flight Test Plan?
Date: Dec 10, 2008
EGT is not very important on the first flight Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: J Riffel To: rv-list Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:37 PM Subject: RV-List: 1st Flight Test Plan? I'd appreciate any constructive input on my plan for my 1st Flight: ____________________ 1.. Ground 1.. Equipment: 1.. Fire extinguisher 2.. Hatchet 3.. Knife 4.. Gloves 5.. Phillips screwdriver 2.. monitor freq: 122.85 3.. Record Launch Time: __________________________________ 4.. Prompt/record: Elapsed Oil Press Oil Temp EGT1 EGT2 EGT3 EGT4 CHT1 CHT2 CHT3 CHT4 2 min

November 29, 2008 - December 11, 2008

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