RV-Archive.digest.vol-uc

August 18, 2009 - September 02, 2009



      >>
      >> Linn Walters wrote:
      >>>
      >>> Could you point me to the instructions that say to do that???
      >>> Linn
      >>>
      >>> Kelly McMullen wrote:
      >>>>
      >>>> Not true. Caliper pins should be lubed with silicone grease intended 
      >>>> for disk brakes. Dry they will wear.
      >>>>
      >>>> Linn Walters wrote:
      >>>>> 
      >>>>>
      >>>>> gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com wrote:
      >>>>>> Service the Brakes,
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>  
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> Replace the Break Pads***
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> Clean and lube moving parts (brake pad plates pins removed 
      >>>>>> corrosion)**
      >>>>> Not sure what this meant .... but do not lube the pins.  They're 
      >>>>> designed to work dry.  Almost any lube will attract dirt and really 
      >>>>> gum up the works.
      >>>>> Linn
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com>
Date: Aug 18, 2009
Subject: Re: Torque Wrench Extensions
Matt, I fiddled with the special tool problem for a long time and finally said th e hell with it and bought one from Avery. One of those expensive tools that proved indispensible for the five minutes or so it took me to torque the p rop bolts. If you can get to Inyokern (IYK) I'll lend it to you; if you ema il me your home address I'll mail it to you. Paul Valovich pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com RV-8A N192NM Reserved (again) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <bmeyette(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Torque Wrench Extensions
Date: Aug 19, 2009
I'm curious - what was the special tool from Avery? Do you have an Avery part number? I'd like to see what it looks like. I just torqued my MT prop bolts and used a simple 3/8" SD crowfoot on the torque wrench. brian _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valovich, Paul Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 9:34 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Torque Wrench Extensions Matt, I fiddled with the special tool problem for a long time and finally said the hell with it and bought one from Avery. One of those expensive tools that proved indispensible for the five minutes or so it took me to torque the prop bolts. If you can get to Inyokern (IYK) I'll lend it to you; if you email me your home address I'll mail it to you. Paul Valovich pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com RV-8A N192NM Reserved (again) 06:03:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2009
From: <wstucklen1(at)cox.net>
Subject: RE: Jump Starting?
I've built three RV's so far, and all have had a standard Piper Power Plug mounted on the belly. Most all FBO's will have the ability to jump start me if I forget to turn off the master..... And yes, I have needed it a few time in the 3000 Hrs+ that I have in RV's. The plug also doubles as a power input if I want to sit in the hanger on a rainy day and fiddle with the avionics..... Fred Stucklen RV-7A N924RV 257 Hrs in one year! RV-6A N926RV 800+ Hrs (Sold) RV-6A N925RV 2008 Hrs (Sold) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dave.gribble(at)mchsi.com
Subject: Re: RE: Jump Starting?
Date: Aug 19, 2009
Fred - where did you mount the piper plug, and did you wire it with a contactor or directly to the battery? I'm building a 9A. -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: <wstucklen1(at)cox.net> > > I've built three RV's so far, and all have had a standard Piper Power Plug mounted on the belly. Most all FBO's will have the ability to jump start me if I forget to turn off the master..... And yes, I have needed it a few time in the > 3000 Hrs+ that I have in RV's. The plug also doubles as a power input if I want to sit in the hanger on a > rainy day and fiddle with the avionics..... > > Fred Stucklen > RV-7A N924RV 257 Hrs in one year! > RV-6A N926RV 800+ Hrs (Sold) > RV-6A N925RV 2008 Hrs (Sold) > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Hilditch" <wmjack1(at)t3cs.net>
Subject: RE: Jump Starting?
Date: Aug 19, 2009
Dave, I'm building a 9A as well. Try this link for info along with Fred's response. http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf Jack Hilditch -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave.gribble(at)mchsi.com Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 9:12 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Jump Starting? Fred - where did you mount the piper plug, and did you wire it with a contactor or directly to the battery? I'm building a 9A. -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: <wstucklen1(at)cox.net> > > I've built three RV's so far, and all have had a standard Piper Power Plug mounted on the belly. Most all FBO's will have the ability to jump start me if I forget to turn off the master..... And yes, I have needed it a few time in the > 3000 Hrs+ that I have in RV's. The plug also doubles as a power input if I want to sit in the hanger on a > rainy day and fiddle with the avionics..... > > Fred Stucklen > RV-7A N924RV 257 Hrs in one year! > RV-6A N926RV 800+ Hrs (Sold) > RV-6A N925RV 2008 Hrs (Sold) > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jump Starting
Date: Aug 19, 2009
From: grenwis(at)aol.com
I put a radio shack door chime under the panel so when the oil pressure is low and the master is on, it rings.? I also put an override OFF switch for when I'm working on things. I use a Harbor freight $15 1.5W solar panel charger so that when I go to the hangar (no electricity) the battery is topped off.? I don't know how well that charger would work for a drained battery. Rick Grenwis RV-6A 210 hours Denver, CO ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2009
From: Carlos Hernandez <carlosh(at)structuralaz.com>
Subject: Re: Jump Starting?
Jerry, A thread on VAF just started this morning about this very topic. Check it out here for an example of your Option 4. http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=46962 This looks as simple as can be. Just another idea for you. Carlos -- Carlos Hernandez <carlosh@sec-engr.com> Structural Engineers Company 2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3 Chandler, AZ 85224 Phone: 480.968.8600 Fax: 480.968.8608 www.sec-engr.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged. This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination or copyingof this email and its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is prohibited. If you havereceived this email in error, please immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email from your system. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N122RL(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 19, 2009
Subject: vm1000
Hello all. Has anyone changed the battery pack in the older vm1000? The company wants $41.00 for the battery and instructions. Thank you in advance. Bob Lau RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2009
From: scott bilinski <rv8a2001(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: vm1000
How old is your VM1000? Mine is ~6 years old and so far so good, also what is the battery for? Scott RV-8a --- On Wed, 8/19/09, N122RL(at)aol.com wrote: From: N122RL(at)aol.com <N122RL(at)aol.com> Subject: RV-List: vm1000 Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 2:24 PM Hello all. Has anyone changed the battery pack in the older vm1000? The com pany wants $41.00 for the battery and instructions. Thank you in advance. - Bob Lau RV-6A =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N122RL(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 19, 2009
Subject: Re: vm1000
It is 10 yrs old. I am not sure what it does. I do know I have lost the recording tack. In a message dated 8/19/2009 6:50:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rv8a2001(at)yahoo.com writes: How old is your VM1000? Mine is ~6 years old and so far so good, also what is the battery for? Scott RV-8a --- On Wed, 8/19/09, N122RL(at)aol.com wrote: From: N122RL(at)aol.com <N122RL(at)aol.com> Subject: RV-List: vm1000 Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 2:24 PM Hello all. Has anyone changed the battery pack in the older vm1000? The company wants $41.00 for the battery and instructions. Thank you in advance. Bob Lau RV-6A ____________________________________ t=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! =JulystepsfooterNO115) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Oil Cooler Size On RV-10...?
Hey, what size oil cooler to the RV-10's use? Is it the same on on the -7's and -8's? "Oil Cooler II". Or, do they use a larger one? I've got a SW10610R for my IO-390 on the RV-8 which is a monster sized cooler. The stock "FF-709" mounting bracket is way too small. Does Van's have a larger one available? What's used on the RV-10? I guess that I could make one, but I'd rather Van's CNC punch did, if you know what I mean...? Thanks! Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle FWF ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 19, 2009
Subject: Re: vm1000
The battery pack includes RAM also in the original VM1000. I had the pack in my DPU replaced a few years back and I think that the $41 is reasonable. N1GV (RV-6A Flying 924TTAE Silicon Valley, CA) In a message dated 8/19/2009 2:26:28 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, N122RL(at)aol.com writes: Hello all. Has anyone changed the battery pack in the older vm1000? The company wants $41.00 for the battery and instructions. Thank you in advance. Bob Lau RV-6A ____________________________________ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Jones" <flyinverted(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: vm1000
Date: Aug 20, 2009
The battery is for the fuel computer functions and tach. time. If you send it back for a battery pack they will reset the tach time. DJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com>
Subject: Re: RV8-List: Governor Control Throws...
Date: Aug 20, 2009
Matt, >From my experience RV8 1900 hrs, you will never need to use the low, low setting. Dick Martin RV8 N233M the fast one ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com> Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:37 PM Subject: RV8-List: Governor Control Throws... > > Dear Listers, > > I've got the control cable going to the Governor working well and the > routing under the engine nicely aligned so that it doesn't touch the sump. > I've got a question regarding the control throw limits, though. Right now > at HIGH RPM, the control on the Governor is hitting the stop as it should. > No problem there. However, on full LOW RPM, I'm about 1/8" away from > hitting the stop on the Governor. I've fiddled around with the available > adjustments 'til I'm blue in the face and I just can't get that last > little bit of LOW. Given the angle of the bracket, its kind of a pull > backwards for the pushrod so its just never really going to work with the > current bracket. My question is this: Does it really matter? When what > the last time anyone actually had full LOW RPM setting? > > Thoughts? > > Thanks, > > Matt Dralle > RV-8 #82880 N998RV > http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com>
Subject: Re: Jump Starting?
Date: Aug 20, 2009
I experienced a similar problem years ago when I first finished my RV8. I obtained a Piper aux power receptacle (it is the most compact size and almost every FBO has an APU jump cable). I did use it once and it saved the day. I installed it inside of the cabin in an out of the way place that was accessable with the canopy open. Dick Martin RV8 N233 the fast one ----- Original Message ----- From: J Riffel To: rv-list Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 10:58 AM Subject: RV-List: Jump Starting? Now, I would NEVER forget to turn the master off and drain the battery down on my RV7A. I have a shutdown checklist and I even leave the strobes on so I'll know the master is on as I walk away. However this past weekend some gremlin did that to me while I was on a trip. :) The standard design doesn't allow you to jump start a RV7. The cowl must be removed to get to the battery. And putting the cowl back on while the engine is running is more than just a little tricky :) Luckily I was at an airport with a staffed FBO and a battery charger so I could solve the problem (I even carry enough tools to remove the cowl and battery). But the event got me thinking. So I'm curious how others have designed a solution to a dead battery at small airport that may have limited/no support (like places I will probably fly into). I think I have 4 options: 1) Do not design a solution (hoping the problem won't happen) 2) Put an access door over the battery for jumper cables 3) Install a "standard" external power plug 4) Fabricate a connection for the positive jumper cable (negative jumper can be attached to exhaust/other ground) Distractions happen, so option 1 isn't very good. I guess I could just carry a battery charger as part of my std tool kit and wait till the battery will crank the engine ... unless the battery won't take a charge. Option 2 is a fair amount of work and some parts cost for only occasional (hopefully) use - besides it seems to 'clutter up' the look. Option 3 could be good. But it begs the question of what "standard" connectors are probably available at a small airport (Cessna, Piper, 'universal' or auto jumper cable). Parts cost could be a little pricey and it'll "clutter up" the look. Option 4 could be good. Normal auto jumpers would work and parts cost could be low. But there are questions on how/where the terminal is mounted. The jumpers need to be disconnected safely while the engine is running and cowl is installed. It needs to be protected (somehow) against accidental shorting while working near it. And I wouldn't want to have to disconnect the terminal every time I removed the cowl. It also shouldn't clutter up things or be prone to be covered in engine oil. Any great ideas/other solutions out there? A picture would help. "Jerry", RV7A, 90+ hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com>
Subject: Re: vm1000
Date: Aug 20, 2009
I have 1900 hours on my RV8 over 9 years. I had to replace the battery in my VM1000 after 1000 hours over 5-6 years. It is a simple job to replace the battery and includes instructions to set tach time etc. Dick Martin RV 8 N233M the fast one ----- Original Message ----- From: N122RL(at)aol.com To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 4:24 PM Subject: RV-List: vm1000 Hello all. Has anyone changed the battery pack in the older vm1000? The company wants $41.00 for the battery and instructions. Thank you in advance. Bob Lau RV-6A ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 20, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Jump Starting?
Hi Jerry, I used the Cessna style plug on my RV-8 mounted in the back of the baggage area. Works great and I've been using it as a GPU plug during the electrical/avionics installation phase. Here are a couple links to my installation for reference: http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=dralle&project=638&category=3912&log=68984&row=48 http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=dralle&project=638&category=3912&log=70614&row=14 http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=dralle&project=638&category=3912&log=70615&row=13 http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=dralle&project=638&category=3912&log=73643&row=3 http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=dralle&project=638&category=3912&log=73644&row=2 Best regards, Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle FWF At 08:58 AM 8/18/2009 Tuesday, you wrote: >Now, I would NEVER forget to turn the master off and drain the battery down on my RV7A. I have a shutdown checklist and I even leave the strobes on so I'll know the master is on as I walk away. However this past weekend some gremlin did that to me while I was on a trip. :) The standard design doesn't allow you to jump start a RV7. The cowl must be removed to get to the battery. And putting the cowl back on while the engine is running is more than just a little tricky :) Luckily I was at an airport with a staffed FBO and a battery charger so I could solve the problem (I even carry enough tools to remove the cowl and battery). > >But the event got me thinking. So I'm curious how others have designed a solution to a dead battery at small airport that may have limited/no support (like places I will probably fly into). I think I have 4 options: >1) Do not design a solution (hoping the problem won't happen) >2) Put an access door over the battery for jumper cables >3) Install a "standard" external power plug >4) Fabricate a connection for the positive jumper cable (negative jumper can be attached to exhaust/other ground) > >Distractions happen, so option 1 isn't very good. I guess I could just carry a battery charger as part of my std tool kit and wait till the battery will crank the engine ... unless the battery won't take a charge. > >Option 2 is a fair amount of work and some parts cost for only occasional (hopefully) use - besides it seems to 'clutter up' the look. > >Option 3 could be good. But it begs the question of what "standard" connectors are probably available at a small airport (Cessna, Piper, 'universal' or auto jumper cable). Parts cost could be a little pricey and it'll "clutter up" the look. > >Option 4 could be good. Normal auto jumpers would work and parts cost could be low. But there are questions on how/where the terminal is mounted. The jumpers need to be disconnected safely while the engine is running and cowl is installed. It needs to be protected (somehow) against accidental shorting while working near it. And I wouldn't want to have to disconnect the terminal every time I removed the cowl. It also shouldn't clutter up things or be prone to be covered in engine oil. > >Any great ideas/other solutions out there? A picture would help. > >"Jerry", RV7A, 90+ hrs Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 20, 2009
From: "J. Mcculley" <mcculleyja(at)starpower.net>
Subject: Re: RV8-List: Governor Control Throws...
Richard, If you ever lose your engine, but it still windmills, pulling the prop full aft will decrease your sink rate by several hundred feet per minute and will extend your time and distance to where you will meet terra firma. Could be a vital asset! I routinely practice dead stick landings this way. Just something to consider adding to your procedures. Jim McCulley ======================================================================================= Richard Martin wrote: > > Matt, >> From my experience RV8 1900 hrs, you will never need to use the low, low > setting. > Dick Martin > RV8 N233M > the fast one > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com> > To: ; > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:37 PM > Subject: RV8-List: Governor Control Throws... ========================================================================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph Finch" <rgf(at)dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Adjusting the fiberglass wing tip trailing edge
Date: Aug 20, 2009
I'm assembling an RV-9A QB. I have a question about the fiberglass wing tip. With wing in a cradle and the aileron bellcrank jig in place I put a straight-edge to the designated holes on the end rib and adjusted the aileron to proper alignment. Then I began fitting the wing tip. The trailing edge of the tip is about 1/4" out of alignment with the aileron trailing edge. Vans instructions say the two TEs should be aligned but no guidance how to achieve that. I was going to ignore the 1/4" misalignment, but on further research some say that a tip misalignment will contribute to a wing heavy or light. Makes sense, since the wing tip is 12" wide there and outboard of the aileron. Some make it align by cutting through the tip TE, separating the top and bottom somewhat to allow them to slide a bit so the tip will align with the aileron. I'm reluctant to do that. And I got a brainstorm that maybe careful heating of the wing tip aft, top and bottom, would allow the fiberglass to "move" enough for the small adjustment. So my questions are: * Should a 1/4" aileron/tip trailing edge misalignment be fixed? * If so, what's the preferred method? Would a careful heating work or is this a fool's idea? Thanks in Advance-- Ralph Finch Davis, CA Rv-9A QB SA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 20, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Adjusting the fiberglass wing tip trailing edge
At 08:22 PM 8/20/2009 Thursday, you wrote: >So my questions are: > >* Should a 1/4" aileron/tip trailing edge misalignment be fixed? IMHO, yes, that's too much. You will always regret not having properly dealt with it. >* If so, what's the preferred method? Would a careful heating work or is >this a fool's idea? Have you drilled the wing tip yet? If not, it is likely that you will be able to pull that 1/4" out by simply sliding the wing tip around in the wing skin over hang. However, if you haven't drilled yet, you might find that there is a fair amount of droop in the fiberglass in the span from the spar to the tip that will cause the trailing miss-alignment. You won't know for sure until its drilled. That's what they call "catch-22". Slicing the trailing edge with a 409 Dremel cutoff wheel is no big deal but remember that you'll have to cut up the side about 12" to get enough play at the trailing edge without inducing a twist. I've got some pictures on my builder's log of how I did mine. They came out very nice, I think: Four log entries: http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=dralle&project=638&category=2982&log=84213&row=34 >Thanks in Advance-- >Ralph Finch >Davis, CA >Rv-9A QB SA Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle FWF ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe McKervey" <mckervey(at)charter.net>
Subject: Jump Starting
Date: Aug 21, 2009
Try www.waytekwire.com Part#37702 ----- Original Message ----- From: "RV-List Digest Server" <rv-list(at)matronics.com> Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 1:58 AM Subject: RV-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 08/20/09 > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete RV-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the RV-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 09-08-20&Archive=RV > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 09-08-20&Archive=RV > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > RV-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Thu 08/20/09: 7 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 07:43 AM - Re: RV8-List: Governor Control Throws... (Richard > Martin) > 2. 08:22 AM - Re: Jump Starting? (Richard Martin) > 3. 08:41 AM - Re: vm1000 (Richard Martin) > 4. 08:56 AM - Re: Jump Starting? (Matt Dralle) > 5. 09:48 AM - Re: Re: RV8-List: Governor Control Throws... (J. > Mcculley) > 6. 08:23 PM - Adjusting the fiberglass wing tip trailing edge (Ralph > Finch) > 7. 08:43 PM - Re: Adjusting the fiberglass wing tip trailing edge > (Matt Dralle) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "Richard Martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com> > Subject: RV-List: Re: RV8-List: Governor Control Throws... > > > Matt, >>From my experience RV8 1900 hrs, you will never need to use the low, low > setting. > Dick Martin > RV8 N233M > the fast one > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com> > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:37 PM > Subject: RV8-List: Governor Control Throws... > > >> >> Dear Listers, >> >> I've got the control cable going to the Governor working well and the >> routing under the engine nicely aligned so that it doesn't touch the >> sump. >> I've got a question regarding the control throw limits, though. Right >> now >> at HIGH RPM, the control on the Governor is hitting the stop as it >> should. >> No problem there. However, on full LOW RPM, I'm about 1/8" away from >> hitting the stop on the Governor. I've fiddled around with the available >> adjustments 'til I'm blue in the face and I just can't get that last >> little bit of LOW. Given the angle of the bracket, its kind of a pull >> backwards for the pushrod so its just never really going to work with the >> current bracket. My question is this: Does it really matter? When what >> the last time anyone actually had full LOW RPM setting? >> >> Thoughts? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Matt Dralle >> RV-8 #82880 N998RV >> http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle >> > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "Richard Martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Jump Starting? > > I experienced a similar problem years ago when I first finished my RV8. > I obtained a Piper aux power receptacle (it is the most compact size > and almost every FBO has an APU jump cable). I did use it once and it > saved the day. I installed it inside of the cabin in an out of the way > place that was accessable with the canopy open. > Dick Martin > RV8 N233 > the fast one > ----- Original Message ----- > From: J Riffel > To: rv-list > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 10:58 AM > Subject: RV-List: Jump Starting? > > > Now, I would NEVER forget to turn the master off and drain the battery > down on my RV7A. I have a shutdown checklist and I even leave the > strobes on so I'll know the master is on as I walk away. However this > past weekend some gremlin did that to me while I was on a trip. :) The > standard design doesn't allow you to jump start a RV7. The cowl must be > removed to get to the battery. And putting the cowl back on while the > engine is running is more than just a little tricky :) Luckily I was at > an airport with a staffed FBO and a battery charger so I could solve the > problem (I even carry enough tools to remove the cowl and battery). > > But the event got me thinking. So I'm curious how others have designed > a solution to a dead battery at small airport that may have limited/no > support (like places I will probably fly into). I think I have 4 > options: > 1) Do not design a solution (hoping the problem won't happen) > 2) Put an access door over the battery for jumper cables > 3) Install a "standard" external power plug > 4) Fabricate a connection for the positive jumper cable (negative > jumper can be attached to exhaust/other ground) > > Distractions happen, so option 1 isn't very good. I guess I could just > carry a battery charger as part of my std tool kit and wait till the > battery will crank the engine ... unless the battery won't take a > charge. > > Option 2 is a fair amount of work and some parts cost for only > occasional (hopefully) use - besides it seems to 'clutter up' the look. > > Option 3 could be good. But it begs the question of what "standard" > connectors are probably available at a small airport (Cessna, Piper, > 'universal' or auto jumper cable). Parts cost could be a little pricey > and it'll "clutter up" the look. > > Option 4 could be good. Normal auto jumpers would work and parts cost > could be low. But there are questions on how/where the terminal is > mounted. The jumpers need to be disconnected safely while the engine is > running and cowl is installed. It needs to be protected (somehow) > against accidental shorting while working near it. And I wouldn't want > to have to disconnect the terminal every time I removed the cowl. It > also shouldn't clutter up things or be prone to be covered in engine > oil. > > Any great ideas/other solutions out there? A picture would help. > > "Jerry", RV7A, 90+ hrs > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "Richard Martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: vm1000 > > I have 1900 hours on my RV8 over 9 years. I had to replace the battery > in my VM1000 after 1000 hours over 5-6 years. It is a simple job to > replace the battery and includes instructions to set tach time etc. > Dick Martin > RV 8 N233M > the fast one > ----- Original Message ----- > From: N122RL(at)aol.com > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 4:24 PM > Subject: RV-List: vm1000 > > > Hello all. Has anyone changed the battery pack in the older vm1000? > The company wants $41.00 for the battery and instructions. Thank you in > advance. > > Bob Lau > RV-6A > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > ________________________________ Message 4 > _____________________________________ > > > From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Jump Starting? > > > Hi Jerry, > > I used the Cessna style plug on my RV-8 mounted in the back of the baggage > area. > Works great and I've been using it as a GPU plug during the > electrical/avionics > installation phase. Here are a couple links to my installation for > reference: > > http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=dralle&project=638&category=3912&log=68984&row=48 > > http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=dralle&project=638&category=3912&log=70614&row=14 > > http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=dralle&project=638&category=3912&log=70615&row=13 > > http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=dralle&project=638&category=3912&log=73643&row=3 > > http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=dralle&project=638&category=3912&log=73644&row=2 > > Best regards, > > Matt Dralle > RV-8 #82880 N998RV > http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle > FWF > > > At 08:58 AM 8/18/2009 Tuesday, you wrote: >>Now, I would NEVER forget to turn the master off and drain the battery >>down on > my RV7A. I have a shutdown checklist and I even leave the strobes on so > I'll > know the master is on as I walk away. However this past weekend some > gremlin > did that to me while I was on a trip. :) The standard design doesn't allow > you > to jump start a RV7. The cowl must be removed to get to the battery. And > putting > the cowl back on while the engine is running is more than just a little > tricky > :) Luckily I was at an airport with a staffed FBO and a battery charger so > I could solve the problem (I even carry enough tools to remove the cowl > and > battery). >> >>But the event got me thinking. So I'm curious how others have designed a >>solution > to a dead battery at small airport that may have limited/no support (like > places I will probably fly into). I think I have 4 options: >>1) Do not design a solution (hoping the problem won't happen) >>2) Put an access door over the battery for jumper cables >>3) Install a "standard" external power plug >>4) Fabricate a connection for the positive jumper cable (negative jumper >>can be > attached to exhaust/other ground) >> >>Distractions happen, so option 1 isn't very good. I guess I could just >>carry a > battery charger as part of my std tool kit and wait till the battery will > crank > the engine ... unless the battery won't take a charge. >> >>Option 2 is a fair amount of work and some parts cost for only occasional >>(hopefully) > use - besides it seems to 'clutter up' the look. >> >>Option 3 could be good. But it begs the question of what "standard" >>connectors > are probably available at a small airport (Cessna, Piper, 'universal' or > auto > jumper cable). Parts cost could be a little pricey and it'll "clutter up" > the > look. >> >>Option 4 could be good. Normal auto jumpers would work and parts cost >>could be > low. But there are questions on how/where the terminal is mounted. The > jumpers > need to be disconnected safely while the engine is running and cowl is > installed. > It needs to be protected (somehow) against accidental shorting while > working > near it. And I wouldn't want to have to disconnect the terminal every time > I removed the cowl. It also shouldn't clutter up things or be prone to be > covered > in engine oil. >> >>Any great ideas/other solutions out there? A picture would help. >> >>"Jerry", RV7A, 90+ hrs > > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 > 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email > http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft > > > ________________________________ Message 5 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "J. Mcculley" <mcculleyja(at)starpower.net> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV8-List: Governor Control Throws... > > > Richard, > > If you ever lose your engine, but it still windmills, pulling the prop > full aft will decrease your sink rate by several hundred feet per minute > and will extend your time and distance to where you will meet terra > firma. Could be a vital asset! I routinely practice dead stick landings > this way. Just something to consider adding to your procedures. > > Jim McCulley > ====================================================================================== > > Richard Martin wrote: >> >> Matt, >>> From my experience RV8 1900 hrs, you will never need to use the low, low >> setting. >> Dick Martin >> RV8 N233M >> the fast one >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com> >> To: ; >> Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:37 PM >> Subject: RV8-List: Governor Control Throws... > ========================================================================================= > > > ________________________________ Message 6 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "Ralph Finch" <rgf(at)dcn.davis.ca.us> > Subject: RV-List: Adjusting the fiberglass wing tip trailing edge > > > I'm assembling an RV-9A QB. I have a question about the fiberglass wing > tip. > > With wing in a cradle and the aileron bellcrank jig in place I put a > straight-edge to the designated holes on the end rib and adjusted the > aileron to proper alignment. Then I began fitting the wing tip. The > trailing edge of the tip is about 1/4" out of alignment with the aileron > trailing edge. Vans instructions say the two TEs should be aligned but no > guidance how to achieve that. > > I was going to ignore the 1/4" misalignment, but on further research some > say that a tip misalignment will contribute to a wing heavy or light. > Makes > sense, since the wing tip is 12" wide there and outboard of the aileron. > Some make it align by cutting through the tip TE, separating the top and > bottom somewhat to allow them to slide a bit so the tip will align with > the > aileron. I'm reluctant to do that. And I got a brainstorm that maybe > careful heating of the wing tip aft, top and bottom, would allow the > fiberglass to "move" enough for the small adjustment. > > So my questions are: > > * Should a 1/4" aileron/tip trailing edge misalignment be fixed? > * If so, what's the preferred method? Would a careful heating work or is > this a fool's idea? > > Thanks in Advance-- > Ralph Finch > Davis, CA > Rv-9A QB SA > > > ________________________________ Message 7 > _____________________________________ > > > From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Adjusting the fiberglass wing tip trailing edge > > At 08:22 PM 8/20/2009 Thursday, you wrote: >>So my questions are: >> >>* Should a 1/4" aileron/tip trailing edge misalignment be fixed? > > > IMHO, yes, that's too much. You will always regret not having properly > dealt with > it. > > >>* If so, what's the preferred method? Would a careful heating work or is >>this a fool's idea? > > > Have you drilled the wing tip yet? If not, it is likely that you will be > able > to pull that 1/4" out by simply sliding the wing tip around in the wing > skin over > hang. However, if you haven't drilled yet, you might find that there is a > fair amount of droop in the fiberglass in the span from the spar to the > tip that > will cause the trailing miss-alignment. You won't know for sure until its > drilled. That's what they call "catch-22". > > Slicing the trailing edge with a 409 Dremel cutoff wheel is no big deal > but remember > that you'll have to cut up the side about 12" to get enough play at the > trailing edge without inducing a twist. I've got some pictures on my > builder's > log of how I did mine. They came out very nice, I think: > > Four log entries: > > > http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=dralle&project=638&category=2982&log=84213&row=34 > > >>Thanks in Advance-- >>Ralph Finch >>Davis, CA >>Rv-9A QB SA > > > Matt Dralle > RV-8 #82880 N998RV > http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle > FWF > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe McKervey" <mckervey(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 08/20/09 Jump Start
Date: Aug 21, 2009
----- Original Message ----- From: "RV-List Digest Server" <rv-list(at)matronics.com> Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 1:58 AM Subject: RV-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 08/20/09 > *Try www.waytekwire.com Part#37702 > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete RV-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the RV-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 09-08-20&Archive=RV > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 09-08-20&Archive=RV > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > RV-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Thu 08/20/09: 7 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 07:43 AM - Re: RV8-List: Governor Control Throws... (Richard > Martin) > 2. 08:22 AM - Re: Jump Starting? (Richard Martin) > 3. 08:41 AM - Re: vm1000 (Richard Martin) > 4. 08:56 AM - Re: Jump Starting? (Matt Dralle) > 5. 09:48 AM - Re: Re: RV8-List: Governor Control Throws... (J. > Mcculley) > 6. 08:23 PM - Adjusting the fiberglass wing tip trailing edge (Ralph > Finch) > 7. 08:43 PM - Re: Adjusting the fiberglass wing tip trailing edge > (Matt Dralle) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "Richard Martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com> > Subject: RV-List: Re: RV8-List: Governor Control Throws... > > > Matt, >>From my experience RV8 1900 hrs, you will never need to use the low, low > setting. > Dick Martin > RV8 N233M > the fast one > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com> > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:37 PM > Subject: RV8-List: Governor Control Throws... > > >> >> Dear Listers, >> >> I've got the control cable going to the Governor working well and the >> routing under the engine nicely aligned so that it doesn't touch the >> sump. >> I've got a question regarding the control throw limits, though. Right >> now >> at HIGH RPM, the control on the Governor is hitting the stop as it >> should. >> No problem there. However, on full LOW RPM, I'm about 1/8" away from >> hitting the stop on the Governor. I've fiddled around with the available >> adjustments 'til I'm blue in the face and I just can't get that last >> little bit of LOW. Given the angle of the bracket, its kind of a pull >> backwards for the pushrod so its just never really going to work with the >> current bracket. My question is this: Does it really matter? When what >> the last time anyone actually had full LOW RPM setting? >> >> Thoughts? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Matt Dralle >> RV-8 #82880 N998RV >> http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle >> > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "Richard Martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Jump Starting? > > I experienced a similar problem years ago when I first finished my RV8. > I obtained a Piper aux power receptacle (it is the most compact size > and almost every FBO has an APU jump cable). I did use it once and it > saved the day. I installed it inside of the cabin in an out of the way > place that was accessable with the canopy open. > Dick Martin > RV8 N233 > the fast one > ----- Original Message ----- > From: J Riffel > To: rv-list > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 10:58 AM > Subject: RV-List: Jump Starting? > > > Now, I would NEVER forget to turn the master off and drain the battery > down on my RV7A. I have a shutdown checklist and I even leave the > strobes on so I'll know the master is on as I walk away. However this > past weekend some gremlin did that to me while I was on a trip. :) The > standard design doesn't allow you to jump start a RV7. The cowl must be > removed to get to the battery. And putting the cowl back on while the > engine is running is more than just a little tricky :) Luckily I was at > an airport with a staffed FBO and a battery charger so I could solve the > problem (I even carry enough tools to remove the cowl and battery). > > But the event got me thinking. So I'm curious how others have designed > a solution to a dead battery at small airport that may have limited/no > support (like places I will probably fly into). I think I have 4 > options: > 1) Do not design a solution (hoping the problem won't happen) > 2) Put an access door over the battery for jumper cables > 3) Install a "standard" external power plug > 4) Fabricate a connection for the positive jumper cable (negative > jumper can be attached to exhaust/other ground) > > Distractions happen, so option 1 isn't very good. I guess I could just > carry a battery charger as part of my std tool kit and wait till the > battery will crank the engine ... unless the battery won't take a > charge. > > Option 2 is a fair amount of work and some parts cost for only > occasional (hopefully) use - besides it seems to 'clutter up' the look. > > Option 3 could be good. But it begs the question of what "standard" > connectors are probably available at a small airport (Cessna, Piper, > 'universal' or auto jumper cable). Parts cost could be a little pricey > and it'll "clutter up" the look. > > Option 4 could be good. Normal auto jumpers would work and parts cost > could be low. But there are questions on how/where the terminal is > mounted. The jumpers need to be disconnected safely while the engine is > running and cowl is installed. It needs to be protected (somehow) > against accidental shorting while working near it. And I wouldn't want > to have to disconnect the terminal every time I removed the cowl. It > also shouldn't clutter up things or be prone to be covered in engine > oil. > > Any great ideas/other solutions out there? A picture would help. > > "Jerry", RV7A, 90+ hrs > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "Richard Martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: vm1000 > > I have 1900 hours on my RV8 over 9 years. I had to replace the battery > in my VM1000 after 1000 hours over 5-6 years. It is a simple job to > replace the battery and includes instructions to set tach time etc. > Dick Martin > RV 8 N233M > the fast one > ----- Original Message ----- > From: N122RL(at)aol.com > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 4:24 PM > Subject: RV-List: vm1000 > > > Hello all. Has anyone changed the battery pack in the older vm1000? > The company wants $41.00 for the battery and instructions. Thank you in > advance. > > Bob Lau > RV-6A > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > ________________________________ Message 4 > _____________________________________ > > > From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Jump Starting? > > > Hi Jerry, > > I used the Cessna style plug on my RV-8 mounted in the back of the baggage > area. > Works great and I've been using it as a GPU plug during the > electrical/avionics > installation phase. Here are a couple links to my installation for > reference: > > http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=dralle&project=638&category=3912&log=68984&row=48 > > http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=dralle&project=638&category=3912&log=70614&row=14 > > http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=dralle&project=638&category=3912&log=70615&row=13 > > http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=dralle&project=638&category=3912&log=73643&row=3 > > http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=dralle&project=638&category=3912&log=73644&row=2 > > Best regards, > > Matt Dralle > RV-8 #82880 N998RV > http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle > FWF > > > At 08:58 AM 8/18/2009 Tuesday, you wrote: >>Now, I would NEVER forget to turn the master off and drain the battery >>down on > my RV7A. I have a shutdown checklist and I even leave the strobes on so > I'll > know the master is on as I walk away. However this past weekend some > gremlin > did that to me while I was on a trip. :) The standard design doesn't allow > you > to jump start a RV7. The cowl must be removed to get to the battery. And > putting > the cowl back on while the engine is running is more than just a little > tricky > :) Luckily I was at an airport with a staffed FBO and a battery charger so > I could solve the problem (I even carry enough tools to remove the cowl > and > battery). >> >>But the event got me thinking. So I'm curious how others have designed a >>solution > to a dead battery at small airport that may have limited/no support (like > places I will probably fly into). I think I have 4 options: >>1) Do not design a solution (hoping the problem won't happen) >>2) Put an access door over the battery for jumper cables >>3) Install a "standard" external power plug >>4) Fabricate a connection for the positive jumper cable (negative jumper >>can be > attached to exhaust/other ground) >> >>Distractions happen, so option 1 isn't very good. I guess I could just >>carry a > battery charger as part of my std tool kit and wait till the battery will > crank > the engine ... unless the battery won't take a charge. >> >>Option 2 is a fair amount of work and some parts cost for only occasional >>(hopefully) > use - besides it seems to 'clutter up' the look. >> >>Option 3 could be good. But it begs the question of what "standard" >>connectors > are probably available at a small airport (Cessna, Piper, 'universal' or > auto > jumper cable). Parts cost could be a little pricey and it'll "clutter up" > the > look. >> >>Option 4 could be good. Normal auto jumpers would work and parts cost >>could be > low. But there are questions on how/where the terminal is mounted. The > jumpers > need to be disconnected safely while the engine is running and cowl is > installed. > It needs to be protected (somehow) against accidental shorting while > working > near it. And I wouldn't want to have to disconnect the terminal every time > I removed the cowl. It also shouldn't clutter up things or be prone to be > covered > in engine oil. >> >>Any great ideas/other solutions out there? A picture would help. >> >>"Jerry", RV7A, 90+ hrs > > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 > 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email > http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft > > > ________________________________ Message 5 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "J. Mcculley" <mcculleyja(at)starpower.net> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV8-List: Governor Control Throws... > > > Richard, > > If you ever lose your engine, but it still windmills, pulling the prop > full aft will decrease your sink rate by several hundred feet per minute > and will extend your time and distance to where you will meet terra > firma. Could be a vital asset! I routinely practice dead stick landings > this way. Just something to consider adding to your procedures. > > Jim McCulley > ====================================================================================== > > Richard Martin wrote: >> >> Matt, >>> From my experience RV8 1900 hrs, you will never need to use the low, low >> setting. >> Dick Martin >> RV8 N233M >> the fast one >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com> >> To: ; >> Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:37 PM >> Subject: RV8-List: Governor Control Throws... > ========================================================================================= > > > ________________________________ Message 6 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "Ralph Finch" <rgf(at)dcn.davis.ca.us> > Subject: RV-List: Adjusting the fiberglass wing tip trailing edge > > > I'm assembling an RV-9A QB. I have a question about the fiberglass wing > tip. > > With wing in a cradle and the aileron bellcrank jig in place I put a > straight-edge to the designated holes on the end rib and adjusted the > aileron to proper alignment. Then I began fitting the wing tip. The > trailing edge of the tip is about 1/4" out of alignment with the aileron > trailing edge. Vans instructions say the two TEs should be aligned but no > guidance how to achieve that. > > I was going to ignore the 1/4" misalignment, but on further research some > say that a tip misalignment will contribute to a wing heavy or light. > Makes > sense, since the wing tip is 12" wide there and outboard of the aileron. > Some make it align by cutting through the tip TE, separating the top and > bottom somewhat to allow them to slide a bit so the tip will align with > the > aileron. I'm reluctant to do that. And I got a brainstorm that maybe > careful heating of the wing tip aft, top and bottom, would allow the > fiberglass to "move" enough for the small adjustment. > > So my questions are: > > * Should a 1/4" aileron/tip trailing edge misalignment be fixed? > * If so, what's the preferred method? Would a careful heating work or is > this a fool's idea? > > Thanks in Advance-- > Ralph Finch > Davis, CA > Rv-9A QB SA > > > ________________________________ Message 7 > _____________________________________ > > > From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Adjusting the fiberglass wing tip trailing edge > > At 08:22 PM 8/20/2009 Thursday, you wrote: >>So my questions are: >> >>* Should a 1/4" aileron/tip trailing edge misalignment be fixed? > > > IMHO, yes, that's too much. You will always regret not having properly > dealt with > it. > > >>* If so, what's the preferred method? Would a careful heating work or is >>this a fool's idea? > > > Have you drilled the wing tip yet? If not, it is likely that you will be > able > to pull that 1/4" out by simply sliding the wing tip around in the wing > skin over > hang. However, if you haven't drilled yet, you might find that there is a > fair amount of droop in the fiberglass in the span from the spar to the > tip that > will cause the trailing miss-alignment. You won't know for sure until its > drilled. That's what they call "catch-22". > > Slicing the trailing edge with a 409 Dremel cutoff wheel is no big deal > but remember > that you'll have to cut up the side about 12" to get enough play at the > trailing edge without inducing a twist. I've got some pictures on my > builder's > log of how I did mine. They came out very nice, I think: > > Four log entries: > > > http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=dralle&project=638&category=2982&log=84213&row=34 > > >>Thanks in Advance-- >>Ralph Finch >>Davis, CA >>Rv-9A QB SA > > > Matt Dralle > RV-8 #82880 N998RV > http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle > FWF > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Colm O'Reilly" <colm.oreilly(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Trimming the rudder stiffeners
Date: Aug 21, 2009
I was trimming the rudder stiffeners with aviation snips last night, and it is fairly obvious to me now that that is not the right tool for the job. I thought of using the die grinder, but I don't want to heat the part too much. Thinking now of getting air nibblers which look inexpensive at about $100, another choice would be a bandsaw. Thoughts ? Thanks in advance. Colm http://oreillyrv8.blogspot.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 2009
Subject: Re: Trimming the rudder stiffeners
From: Tim Randles <tim.randles(at)gmail.com>
Wow, I just saw the bent and cracked stiffener on your blog. I didn't have any problems like that when I trimmed mine. They came out nice and straight. Make sure you're using the correct handedness snips for the direction you're cutting. Tim On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Colm O'Reilly wrote: > > I was trimming the rudder stiffeners with aviation snips last night, and it > is fairly obvious to me now that that is not the right tool for the job. > > I thought of using the die grinder, but I don't want to heat the part too > much. > > Thinking now of getting air nibblers which look inexpensive at about $100, > another choice would be a bandsaw. > > Thoughts ? > > Thanks in advance. > Colm > > http://oreillyrv8.blogspot.com/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Xavier Marshall <Xavier.Marshall(at)vcaantech.com>
Date: Aug 21, 2009
Subject: Trimming the rudder stiffeners
I too did the first one or two with snips. I switched to the band saw. Made quick work of it. Xavier (Resistance is Futile (if > 1-ohm) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Colm O'Reilly Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 6:31 AM Subject: RV-List: Trimming the rudder stiffeners I was trimming the rudder stiffeners with aviation snips last night, and it is fairly obvious to me now that that is not the right tool for the job. I thought of using the die grinder, but I don't want to heat the part too much. Thinking now of getting air nibblers which look inexpensive at about $100, another choice would be a bandsaw. Thoughts ? Thanks in advance. Colm http://oreillyrv8.blogspot.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 2009
From: John Bright <john_s_bright(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Trimming the rudder stiffeners
I would think snips would work well. Do you have left and right hand ones? Did you try trimming close to the finished line first and then a final trim to the line? Thanks, John Bright ----- Original Message ---- From: Colm O'Reilly <colm.oreilly(at)gmail.com> Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 9:31:30 AM Subject: RV-List: Trimming the rudder stiffeners I was trimming the rudder stiffeners with aviation snips last night, and it is fairly obvious to me now that that is not the right tool for the job. I thought of using the die grinder, but I don't want to heat the part too much. Thinking now of getting air nibblers which look inexpensive at about $100, another choice would be a bandsaw. Thoughts ? Thanks in advance. Colm http://oreillyrv8.blogspot.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MLWynn(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 21, 2009
Subject: Re: Trimming the rudder stiffeners
I ended up using a bandsaw. I made a little jig out of plywood, clamped down to the bandsaw table to get the angle correct. Then cut them all. There are more stiffeners in the elevators that will require the same treatment. I have never been able to get a very smooth cut with snips, but that could just be me. Regards, Michael Wynn RV 8 Canopy San Ramon, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: Re: Trimming the rudder stiffeners
Date: Aug 21, 2009
Bandsaw, you'll use I a lot!! Sent from my iPhone On Aug 21, 2009, at 9:31 AM, "Colm O'Reilly" wrote: > > > I was trimming the rudder stiffeners with aviation snips last night, > and it is fairly obvious to me now that that is not the right tool > for the job. > > I thought of using the die grinder, but I don't want to heat the > part too much. > > Thinking now of getting air nibblers which look inexpensive at about > $100, another choice would be a bandsaw. > > Thoughts ? > > Thanks in advance. > Colm > > http://oreillyrv8.blogspot.com/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Fogarty, Lakes & Leisure Realty, Inc." <jfogarty(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: Adjusting the fiberglass wing tip trailing edge
Date: Aug 21, 2009
Ralph, Do nothing until you set the wing incidence, with the wings on the fuselage it may look different. Meaning no drill, no screwing, etc. I made this mistake and my tips were off, I'm still trying to get them right. Just my two cents. Jim RV9a Building ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralph Finch" <rgf(at)dcn.davis.ca.us> Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:22 PM Subject: RV-List: Adjusting the fiberglass wing tip trailing edge > > I'm assembling an RV-9A QB. I have a question about the fiberglass wing > tip. > > With wing in a cradle and the aileron bellcrank jig in place I put a > straight-edge to the designated holes on the end rib and adjusted the > aileron to proper alignment. Then I began fitting the wing tip. The > trailing edge of the tip is about 1/4" out of alignment with the aileron > trailing edge. Vans instructions say the two TEs should be aligned but no > guidance how to achieve that. > > I was going to ignore the 1/4" misalignment, but on further research some > say that a tip misalignment will contribute to a wing heavy or light. > Makes > sense, since the wing tip is 12" wide there and outboard of the aileron. > Some make it align by cutting through the tip TE, separating the top and > bottom somewhat to allow them to slide a bit so the tip will align with > the > aileron. I'm reluctant to do that. And I got a brainstorm that maybe > careful heating of the wing tip aft, top and bottom, would allow the > fiberglass to "move" enough for the small adjustment. > > So my questions are: > > * Should a 1/4" aileron/tip trailing edge misalignment be fixed? > * If so, what's the preferred method? Would a careful heating work or is > this a fool's idea? > > Thanks in Advance-- > Ralph Finch > Davis, CA > Rv-9A QB SA > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Trimming the rudder stiffeners
Date: Aug 21, 2009
I agree. Bandsaw followed by a sanding disk and the scotchbrite wheel. Mike Robertson > From: Xavier.Marshall(at)vcaantech.com > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Fri=2C 21 Aug 2009 07:15:51 -0700 > Subject: RE: RV-List: Trimming the rudder stiffeners > .com> > > I too did the first one or two with snips. I switched to the band saw. Ma de quick work of it. > > Xavier > (Resistance is Futile (if > 1-ohm) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@mat ronics.com] On Behalf Of Colm O'Reilly > Sent: Friday=2C August 21=2C 2009 6:31 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Trimming the rudder stiffeners > > > I was trimming the rudder stiffeners with aviation snips last night=2C > and it is fairly obvious to me now that that is not the right tool for > the job. > > I thought of using the die grinder=2C but I don't want to heat the part > too much. > > Thinking now of getting air nibblers which look inexpensive at about > $100=2C another choice would be a bandsaw. > > Thoughts ? > > Thanks in advance. > Colm > > http://oreillyrv8.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ With Windows Live=2C you can organize=2C edit=2C and share your photos. http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Fogarty, Lakes & Leisure Realty, Inc." <jfogarty(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: Trimming the rudder stiffeners
Date: Aug 21, 2009
Colm, If you have a left and right hand snips and you are cutting the stiffeners correctly, you should not have this problem. It looks like you drilled your holes prior to sizing the stiffeners, I think I made all of my stiffeners and then drilled the holes, but I'm not sure. Mark you stiffeners and then cut them within 1/16" and then use a file or belt sander to get them perfect. If all else fails, look for a builder in your area and ask for help, maybe at your local airport. You may need to order a little more material from Vans. Good luck. Jim RV9a building ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Randles To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 8:57 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Trimming the rudder stiffeners Wow, I just saw the bent and cracked stiffener on your blog. I didn't have any problems like that when I trimmed mine. They came out nice and straight. Make sure you're using the correct handedness snips for the direction you're cutting. Tim On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Colm O'Reilly wrote: I was trimming the rudder stiffeners with aviation snips last night, and it is fairly obvious to me now that that is not the right tool for the job. I thought of using the die grinder, but I don't want to heat the part too much. Thinking now of getting air nibblers which look inexpensive at about $100, another choice would be a bandsaw. Thoughts ? Thanks in advance. Colm http://oreillyrv8.blogspot.com/ ========== get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 2009
Subject: Re: Trimming the rudder stiffeners
From: peter laurence <peterlaurence6(at)gmail.com>
Colm, My 2 cents-- Get a bandsaw and buy a few bimetal non ferrous blades(for cutting Aluminum in this case) Get Harbor Freight's 12 inch sanding disk. Also, if you don't already have one, Get a "grinder" and use the brown and grey scotchbrite wheels for deburring small parts. You can use your die grinder with a scotchbrite rolac disk on larger parts. Cut the part on the bandsaw a little larger than the final dimensions. Place on the 12 sander and cut to the proper size. Deburr on the wheels. I'll be starting on my canopy soon. I have never had to use a snip. Peter On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Colm O'Reilly wrote: > > I was trimming the rudder stiffeners with aviation snips last night, and it > is fairly obvious to me now that that is not the right tool for the job. > > I thought of using the die grinder, but I don't want to heat the part too > much. > > Thinking now of getting air nibblers which look inexpensive at about $100, > another choice would be a bandsaw. > > Thoughts ? > > Thanks in advance. > Colm > > http://oreillyrv8.blogspot.com/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 2009
From: "Lapsley R. and Sandra E. Caldwell" <lrsecaldwell(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Adjusting the fiberglass wing tip trailing edge
I used the following approach on my RV7 First i match drilled the wingtip to the wing and clecoed/screwed it yo the wing while in the cradle. Then I centered the aileron and checked to see how far off the wing tip trailing edge was. Similar to yours about 1/4 inch. Next I split the wingtip trailing edge. then I pushed it to remove the misalignment with the centered aileron, using a straight edge to check to the centered aileron. In my case I did not have to split the side of the wingtip. While holding the split wingtip in the correct place with clamps I drilled several # 40 holes though the wing tip trailing edge. Now I could remove the clamps and return to the proper wingtip position by using clecos through the drilled holes. Then I spread the split and inserted wet fiberglass cloth and clecoed the split together Once dry I remove it from the wing and added more fiberglass internally for reinforcement and filled the #40 holes with epoxy filler. It was easier to do than to write up the procedure. Roger ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 2009
Subject: Re: Jump Starting? - Solution
From: J Riffel <riffeljl(at)gmail.com>
Just thought I'd update anyone who followed the thread - and those who responded directly. First; Thanks to all who took the time to share their solutions or opinions. I read and carefully considered each of them. I take the idea of "experimental" more literally than some - so this may not be my ultimate solution; but it's my current one. My "design criteria" for a jump start are 1) safe 2) rreasonably easy 3) low parts cost and 4) low demand on the local FBO (if there is one). Number 4 probably drove my solution more than anything - as many of my destinations are Very Small airports with little or no FBO support. I can typically get into town from the airport - but if I break down, it's up to me to get going again. So I decided against any unique "plug" and will simply rely on getting access to normal car jumper cables. Therefore my solution was to route a 2AWG wire from the positive battery terminal along the top of the motor mount, terminating close to the oil access door. I chose the positive battery terminal over the master solenoid only because it was easier (and in my opinion, safer) routing. I had a leftover 2AWG wire out of Vans wiring package that was insulated & had lugs on both ends so I used that. I attached the wire to the motor mount at 4 points. Each point used 2 cushioned Adel clamps; one around the motor mount and the other around the wire. I put 2 layers of corrugated wire loom around the already insulated wire to protect it against a stray wrench/screw driver. To protect the lug at the oil-door, I tie wrapped a leftover auto-spark plug boot and 2 layers of corrugated wire loom. ( tho tie wrapping may be overkill, I don't expect to use it frequently and also didn't want the boot to accidentally vibrate out). I also put wire loom around surrounding motor mount pipes in case the jumper cable clamp slips. Now jumping my airplane should be easy. All I need is some borrowed/purchased auto jumper cables and a battery (airport car, another airplane, etc.). Just cutoff the tie wraps around the spark plug boot and connect the jumpers thru the oil access door; negative to the motor mount bolt and the positive to the exposed lug. Once it's started, put the boot back onto the lug and fly home. If the description doesn't make sense, just drop me a note and I'll send you pics. "Jerry" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 2009
From: david cook <davercook1501(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Jump Starting? - Solution
I did the same thing ,but I used a 3in piece of pvc just large enough to fit over the lug. Drilled a hole in the pvc and put a tywrap thru the hole and the lug. To use, just snip the tywrap , slide the pvc down the cable and attach the jumper cables as you suggest. David R. Cook N815DC RV-6 Flying ________________________________ From: J Riffel <riffeljl(at)gmail.com> Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 9:12:57 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Jump Starting? - Solution Just thought I'd update anyone who followed the thread - and those who responded directly. First; Thanks to all who took the time to share their solutions or opinions. I read and carefully considered each of them. I take the idea of "experimental" more literally than some - so this may not be my ultimate solution; but it's my current one. My "design criteria" for a jump start are 1) safe 2) rreasonably easy 3) low parts cost and 4) low demand on the local FBO (if there is one). Number 4 probably drove my solution more than anything - as many of my destinations are Very Small airports with little or no FBO support. I can typically get into town from the airport - but if I break down, it's up to me to get going again. So I decided against any unique "plug" and will simply rely on getting access to normal car jumper cables. Therefore my solution was to route a 2AWG wire from the positive battery terminal along the top of the motor mount, terminating close to the oil access door. I chose the positive battery terminal over the master solenoid only because it was easier (and in my opinion, safer) routing. I had a leftover 2AWG wire out of Vans wiring package that was insulated & had lugs on both ends so I used that. I attached the wire to the motor mount at 4 points. Each point used 2 cushioned Adel clamps; one around the motor mount and the other around the wire. I put 2 layers of corrugated wire loom around the already insulated wire to protect it against a stray wrench/screw driver. To protect the lug at the oil-door, I tie wrapped a leftover auto-spark plug boot and 2 layers of corrugated wire loom. ( tho tie wrapping may be overkill, I don't expect to use it frequently and also didn't want the boot to accidentally vibrate out). I also put wire loom around surrounding motor mount pipes in case the jumper cable clamp slips. Now jumping my airplane should be easy. All I need is some borrowed/purchased auto jumper cables and a battery (airport car, another airplane, etc.). Just cutoff the tie wraps around the spark plug boot and connect the jumpers thru the oil access door; negative to the motor mount bolt and the positive to the exposed lug. Once it's started, put the boot back onto the lug and fly home. If the description doesn't make sense, just drop me a note and I'll send you pics. "Jerry" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 21, 2009
Subject: Re: Jump Starting? - Solution
So now that that is settled... perhaps now it's appropriate to discuss the wisdom or not of jumping into and immediately flying off in an airplane that is still trying to charge its (still dead) battery. ;o) N1GV (RV-6A Flying 924TTAE Silicon Valley, CA) In a message dated 8/21/2009 6:19:00 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, riffeljl(at)gmail.com writes: Now jumping my airplane should be easy. All I need is some borrowed/purchased auto jumper cables and a battery (airport car, another airplane, etc.). Just cutoff the tie wraps around the spark plug boot and connect the jumpers thru the oil access door; negative to the motor mount bolt and the positive to the exposed lug. Once it's started, put the boot back onto the lug and fly home. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Colm O'Reilly" <colm.oreilly(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Trimming the rudder stiffeners
Date: Aug 21, 2009
Thanks everyone for the excellent responses. Motivated by these I was able to apply some patience to the problem and trim them just fine this evening with the left (red) snips and then clean them up with the scotchbrite wheel. I am also chasing down a bandsaw and drill press. Thanks, Colm http://oreillyrv8.blogspot.com/ On Aug 21, 2009, at 9:31 AM, Colm O'Reilly wrote: > > > I was trimming the rudder stiffeners with aviation snips last night, > and it is fairly obvious to me now that that is not the right tool > for the job. > > I thought of using the die grinder, but I don't want to heat the > part too much. > > Thinking now of getting air nibblers which look inexpensive at about > $100, another choice would be a bandsaw. > > Thoughts ? > > Thanks in advance. > Colm > > http://oreillyrv8.blogspot.com/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 2009
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Jump Starting? - Solution
I wonder how much safer that method is, trying to put the boot back on and make sure it is tie wrapped so the lug well not short out while standing a few inches from a spinning prop. J Riffel wrote: > Once it's started, put the boot back onto the lug and fly home. > > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Vetterman 4-into-4 RV-8/IO-390 Exhaust...
Dear Listers, I got the Vetterman 4-into-4 RV-8/IO-390 exhaust system installed last weekend. It fit perfectly, and looks awesome too! I've attached a few pictures on the installation. (Digest Listers: Check the Forums interface for the pictures at http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=4 ) Here's my question. How close should the pipes actually be to the bottom of the exhaust ramp? The mounting system will allow me to push them up pretty close, but is that wise? The installation instructions didn't really lend any guidance here. BTW, the IO-390 engine went on without a problem. Here's some pictures: (7 Log Entries) http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=dralle&project=638&category=2972&log=86633&row=29 And here's some real-time shots from the MattCams: (9 Log Entries) http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=dralle&project=638&category=2972&log=86655&row=22 Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle FWF ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 2009
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Vetterman 4-into-4 RV-8/IO-390 Exhaust...
Matt Dralle wrote: > Dear Listers, > > I got the Vetterman 4-into-4 RV-8/IO-390 exhaust system installed last weekend. It fit perfectly, and looks awesome too! I've attached a few pictures on the installation. (Digest Listers: Check the Forums interface for the pictures at http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=4 ) > > Here's my question. How close should the pipes actually be to the bottom of the exhaust ramp? The mounting system will allow me to push them up pretty close, but is that wise? The installation instructions didn't really lend any guidance here. > RV-8s have had a bit of a problem with cracks forming in the ramp. I don't know if Van made any changes in that area on the must current fuselage design to address that or not, nor do I know which version of the fuselage you have. I wouldn't put those pipes any closer to the ramp than you need to, unless you have made changes to the ramp to greatly reduce the chance of cracking. Kevin Horton ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Garmin G900X Users Group?
Date: Aug 23, 2009
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
Does anyone know of a Garmin Users Group? Ideally a G900X or G1000 users group? I have many (basic) questions about my avionics that don't seem to be covered by the 500+ page manual. Robin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "GLAESER, DENNIS" <dennis.glaeser(at)hp.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2009
Subject: Re: Garmin G900X Users Group?
I don't know of a dedicated forum, but the AOPA forums (http://forums.aopa.org/index.php) and Pilots of America forums (http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/) have a number of questions/answers on the G1000. I instruct in G1000 equipped planes, and I'm sure a number of other on this list have G1000 experience as well, so ask away here if you want. Dennis Glaeser ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Does anyone know of a Garmin Users Group? Ideally a G900X or G1000 users group? I have many (basic) questions about my avionics that don't seem to be covered by the 500+ page manual. Robin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2009
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Wanted--Bent whip Com antenna
I would like to find a used or uninstalled/not needed Comant CI-122 or equivalent bent whip com antenna. I have both a used Comant CI-121 antenna, and a Mooney "7" style antenna(also used on some Pipers) that I can offer in partial trade or whatever deal might be possible. Kelly McMullen RV-10 under construction Mooney M20E ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com>
Subject: Re: RV8-List: Oil Cooler Size On RV-10...?
Date: Aug 20, 2009
When I built my RV8, I attempted to use the SW cooler recommended by vans, however it was inadequate. Upon advice of Monty Barrette, and Dave Anders (still the fastest RV) I obtained a Niagara/Harrison 10 cooler and mounted it on the rear baffle behind cyl 4 and tilted it down approximately 35 degrees (tilt as much as possible without contacting engine mount) (it will be necessary to remove some metal from the flange on the cooler to prevent contact with engine mount tube). This set up has proven to be excellent providing good cooling in all temperatures up to 95 degrees outside air including the Air Venture races when I run at 100 percent of power at low altitude for over 2 hours (2700 rpm, 27-29 inch manifold pressure) average indicated airspeeds are 220-235mph depending on OAT. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 10:08 PM Subject: RV8-List: Oil Cooler Size On RV-10...? > --> RV8-List message posted by: Matt Dralle > > > Hey, what size oil cooler to the RV-10's use? Is it the same on on > the -7's and -8's? "Oil Cooler II". Or, do they use a larger one? > > I've got a SW10610R for my IO-390 on the RV-8 which is a monster sized > cooler. The stock "FF-709" mounting bracket is way too small. Does Van's > have a larger one available? What's used on the RV-10? > > I guess that I could make one, but I'd rather Van's CNC punch did, if you > know what I mean...? > > Thanks! > > Matt Dralle > RV-8 #82880 N998RV > http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle > FWF > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Size On RV-10...?
Thanks for the feedback Richard. Do you have some pictures of your installation you could post to the Lists? BTW, your computer clock is 5 days behind. Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV <http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle>http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle FWF At 08:33 AM 8/20/2009 Thursday, you wrote: > >When I built my RV8, I attempted to use the SW cooler recommended by vans, however it was inadequate. Upon advice of Monty Barrette, and Dave Anders (still the fastest RV) I obtained a Niagara/Harrison 10 cooler and mounted it on the rear baffle behind cyl 4 and tilted it down approximately 35 degrees (tilt as much as possible without contacting engine mount) (it will be necessary to remove some metal from the flange on the cooler to prevent contact with engine mount tube). This set up has proven to be excellent providing good cooling in all temperatures up to 95 degrees outside air including the Air Venture races when I run at 100 percent of power at low altitude for over 2 hours (2700 rpm, 27-29 inch manifold pressure) average indicated airspeeds are 220-235mph depending on OAT. >----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com> >To: ; ; >Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 10:08 PM >Subject: RV8-List: Oil Cooler Size On RV-10...? > > >>--> RV8-List message posted by: Matt Dralle >> >> >>Hey, what size oil cooler to the RV-10's use? Is it the same on on the -7's and -8's? "Oil Cooler II". Or, do they use a larger one? >> >>I've got a SW10610R for my IO-390 on the RV-8 which is a monster sized cooler. The stock "FF-709" mounting bracket is way too small. Does Van's have a larger one available? What's used on the RV-10? >> >>I guess that I could make one, but I'd rather Van's CNC punch did, if you know what I mean...? >> >>Thanks! >> >>Matt Dralle >>RV-8 #82880 N998RV >>http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle >>FWF ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rquinn1(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 25, 2009
Subject: (no subject)
RVers What is the current status of using a RV for training? Thanks Rollie RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com>
Subject: Re: Adjusting the fiberglass wing tip trailing edge
Date: Aug 25, 2009
8 years ago when I was finishing my RV8, I was confronted with similar problems. I solved them by obtaining a full scale drawing of the wing airfoil and making a full size plywood template of the airfoil. I then tra nsferred the shape to the wing which allowed me to obtain perfect alignment of the flap, aeleron and the wing tip on both wings. Later after I had the airplane flying and de bugged, I then addressed the wing heavy problem. I split the outboard edge of the wing tip and then reformed the outboard trailing edge up or down as needed to get the airplane to fly level. When I was satisfied, I reglued the trailing edge and outboard edge as necessary. Good luck. Dick Martin N233 RV8 The fast one ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralph Finch" <rgf(at)dcn.davis.ca.us> Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:22 PM Subject: RV-List: Adjusting the fiberglass wing tip trailing edge > > I'm assembling an RV-9A QB. I have a question about the fiberglass wing > tip. > > With wing in a cradle and the aileron bellcrank jig in place I put a > straight-edge to the designated holes on the end rib and adjusted the > aileron to proper alignment. Then I began fitting the wing tip. The > trailing edge of the tip is about 1/4" out of alignment with the aileron > trailing edge. Vans instructions say the two TEs should be aligned but no > guidance how to achieve that. > > I was going to ignore the 1/4" misalignment, but on further research some > say that a tip misalignment will contribute to a wing heavy or light. > Makes > sense, since the wing tip is 12" wide there and outboard of the aileron. > Some make it align by cutting through the tip TE, separating the top and > bottom somewhat to allow them to slide a bit so the tip will align with > the > aileron. I'm reluctant to do that. And I got a brainstorm that maybe > careful heating of the wing tip aft, top and bottom, would allow the > fiberglass to "move" enough for the small adjustment. > > So my questions are: > > * Should a 1/4" aileron/tip trailing edge misalignment be fixed? > * If so, what's the preferred method? Would a careful heating work or is > this a fool's idea? > > Thanks in Advance-- > Ralph Finch > Davis, CA > Rv-9A QB SA > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2009
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
I got some transition/refresher training in December in Georgia. Pierre Smith has a RV6A and his CFI ticket (then anyway). I don't know verbatim - but I think that it has to undergo 100hr inspections and get a training permit from the FAA. Pierre would know. http://www.rv-transitiontraining.com/ Ralph Capen -----Original Message----- >From: Rquinn1(at)aol.com >Sent: Aug 25, 2009 1:46 PM >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: (no subject) > >RVers > >What is the current status of using a RV for training? > >Thanks >Rollie >RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: (no subject)
Date: Aug 25, 2009
If it is free to use or it is yours then have at it. If it is on a trainin g exemption then it can be used for transition training and you can pay for its use. Mike Robertson Das Fed From: Rquinn1(at)aol.com Date: Tue=2C 25 Aug 2009 13:46:09 -0400 Subject: RV-List: (no subject) RVers What is the current status of using a RV for training? Thanks Rollie RV6A _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on Facebook. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL :ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fisher Paul A." <FisherPaulA(at)JohnDeere.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2009
Subject: Training
So is it OK to use my aircraft ("free" as Mike says below), but still pay a n instructor? In the overall transaction there would be compensation chang ing hands, but it would only be for the instructor's time, not the plane it self. The operating limitations specifically say "No person may operate this airc raft for carrying persons or property for compensation or hire". I'd simpl y like to pay an instructor to check out other people (specifically my son) in my plane. I don't think that violates the intent of the operating limi tations, but I don't want to violate the letter of them either! Paul A. Fisher RV-7A N18PF - 15 hours into phase I, so this is just an academic question f or another 25 hours! From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matro nics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Robertson If it is free to use or it is yours then have at it. If it is on a trainin g exemption then it can be used for transition training and you can pay for its use. Mike Robertson Das Fed ________________________________ From: Rquinn1(at)aol.com RVers What is the current status of using a RV for training? Thanks Rollie RV6A ________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2009
From: Carlos Hernandez <carlosh(at)structuralaz.com>
Subject: Re: Training
Paul, If it is your plane (owner) and your not charging for the use of the plane just the CFI's instruction and time then there's no problem. I was transitioned into our experimental and just paid our CFI for his time. Dad and I also do this for our BFR's in our experimental. We also did this for a friend that needed flight hours in our type experimental plane for insurance purposes. We let them fly the plane and he paid his time to the CFI. Now he was nice enough to buy lunch but we did not collect any money for the use the plane. Carlos in Arizona Fisher Paul A. wrote: > > So is it OK to use my aircraft ("free" as Mike says below), but still > pay an instructor? In the overall transaction there would be > compensation changing hands, but it would only be for the instructor's > time, not the plane itself. > > > > The operating limitations specifically say "No person may operate this > aircraft for carrying persons or property for compensation or hire". > I'd simply like to pay an instructor to check out other people > (specifically my son) in my plane. I don't think that violates the > intent of the operating limitations, but I don't want to violate the > letter of them either! > > > > Paul A. Fisher > > RV-7A N18PF -- 15 hours into phase I, so this is just an academic > question for another 25 hours! > -- Carlos Hernandez <carlosh@sec-engr.com> Structural Engineers Company 2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3 Chandler, AZ 85224 Phone: 480.968.8600 Fax: 480.968.8608 www.sec-engr.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged. This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination or copyingof this email and its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is prohibited. If you havereceived this email in error, please immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email from your system. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2009
From: Reuven Silberman <pilots2(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Training
Paul, =C2- Carlos is correct. If it is your plane, and it is out of=C2-Phase I,=C2 -you can hire a CFI (please make sure he or she speaks RV) and check out your mom, dad, son, daughter,=C2-wife, girlfriend, anyone as long as no m oney changes hands concerning the "using"=C2-of the aircraft (the checkee can pay for gas).=C2- If any=C2-money changes hands then your airplane is being used for hire and must be approved by the FAA for transition trai ning, otherwise you are in violation of FAR 91.319(a)(2). =C2- Reuven Silberman N7WT=C2- RV7A FAA approved for transition training Pilots2(at)yahoo.com --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Carlos Hernandez wrote: From: Carlos Hernandez <carlosh(at)structuralaz.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Training Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 2:03 PM Paul, If it is your plane (owner) and your not charging for the use of the plane just the CFI's instruction and time then there's no problem. I was transiti oned into our experimental and just paid our CFI for his time. Dad and I al so do this for our BFR's in our experimental. We also did this for a friend that needed flight hours in our type experimental plane for insurance purp oses. We let them fly the plane and he paid his time to the CFI. Now he was nice enough to buy lunch but we did not collect any money for the use the plane. Carlos in Arizona Fisher Paul A. wrote: So is it OK to use my aircraft (=9Cfree=9D as Mike says below), but still pay an instructor?=C2- In the overall transaction there would be compensation changing hands, but it would only be for the instructor =99s time, not the plane itself. =C2- The operating limitations specifically say =9CNo person may operate t his aircraft for carrying persons or property for compensation or hire =9D.=C2- I=99d simply like to pay an instructor to check out oth er people (specifically my son) in my plane.=C2- I don=99t think th at violates the intent of the operating limitations, but I don=99t wa nt to violate the letter of them either! =C2- Paul A. Fisher RV-7A N18PF =93 15 hours into phase I, so this is just an academic qu estion for another 25 hours! -- Carlos Hernandez <carlosh@sec-engr.com> Structural Engineers Company 2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3 Chandler, AZ 85224 Phone: 480.968.8600 Fax: 480.968.8608 www.sec-engr.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged. This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination or copyingof this email and its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is prohibited. If you havereceived this email in error, please immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email from your system. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Training
Date: Aug 25, 2009
You are OK to pay an instructor to give you instruction in your plane. Sam e thing goes for your son. Mike Robertson Das Fed From: FisherPaulA(at)JohnDeere.com Date: Tue=2C 25 Aug 2009 15:14:31 -0500 Subject: RE: RV-List: Training So is it OK to use my aircraft (=93free=94 as Mike says below)=2C but still pay an instructor? In the overall transaction there would be compensation changing hands=2C but it would only be for the instructor=92s time=2C not the plane itself. The operating limitations specifically say =93No person may operate this ai rcraft for carrying persons or property for compensation or hire=94. I=92d simply like to pay an instructor to check out other people (specifically m y son) in my plane. I don=92t think that violates the intent of the operat ing limitations=2C but I don=92t want to violate the letter of them either! Paul A. Fisher RV-7A N18PF ' 15 hours into phase I=2C so this is just an academic questi on for another 25 hours! From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matro nics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Robertson If it is free to use or it is yours then have at it. If it is on a trainin g exemption then it can be used for transition training and you can pay for its use. Mike Robertson Das Fed From: Rquinn1(at)aol.com RVers What is the current status of using a RV for training? Thanks Rollie RV6A _________________________________________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYC B_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2009
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Training
According to the letter of the law even buying lunch violates the law. Might be kind of hard to prove that lunch was for the use airplane but you were almost saying that in the post. Jerry Carlos Hernandez wrote: > Paul, > If it is your plane (owner) and your not charging for the use of the > plane just the CFI's instruction and time then there's no problem. I > was transitioned into our experimental and just paid our CFI for his > time. Dad and I also do this for our BFR's in our experimental. We > also did this for a friend that needed flight hours in our type > experimental plane for insurance purposes. We let them fly the plane > and he paid his time to the CFI. Now he was nice enough to buy lunch > but we did not collect any money for the use the plane. > > Carlos in Arizona > > Fisher Paul A. wrote: >> >> So is it OK to use my aircraft (free as Mike says below), but still >> pay an instructor? In the overall transaction there would be >> compensation changing hands, but it would only be for the >> instructors time, not the plane itself. >> >> The operating limitations specifically say No person may operate >> this aircraft for carrying persons or property for compensation or >> hire. Id simply like to pay an instructor to check out other people >> (specifically my son) in my plane. I dont think that violates the >> intent of the operating limitations, but I dont want to violate the >> letter of them either! >> >> Paul A. Fisher >> >> RV-7A N18PF 15 hours into phase I, so this is just an academic >> question for another 25 hours! >> > > -- > Carlos Hernandez <carlosh@sec-engr.com> > Structural Engineers Company > 2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3 > Chandler, AZ 85224 > Phone: 480.968.8600 > Fax: 480.968.8608 > www.sec-engr.com > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged. > This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or > organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or > an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that any review, dissemination or copyingof this email and > its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is > prohibited. If you havereceived this email in error, please > immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email > from your system. > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2009
Subject: transition training in Arizona?
From: thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com>
Speaking of training in an RV, some one told me recently that there is a guy in Phoenix who is doing transition training using an RV-9. Does any one know if this is true? If not, is there any one anywhere in Arizona doing transition training? I've got an RV-6a, I guess I should ask the insurance company if training in an RV-9 would qualify for insurance purposes. Probably not. -- Tom Sargent ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph Finch" <rgf(at)dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: transition training in Arizona?
Date: Aug 25, 2009
Gee, if the insurance company has any sense they would know that a -9 (taildragger) would work for a -6A model. Oh wait....never mind. > I've got an RV-6a, I guess I should ask the insurance company if training in an RV-9 > would qualify for insurance purposes. Probably not. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <bmeyette(at)gmail.com>
Subject: transition training in Arizona?
Date: Aug 25, 2009
there is an Arizona person listed on my RV Transition Training page http://www.meyette.us/training.htm brian _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of thomas sargent Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 6:38 PM Subject: RV-List: transition training in Arizona? Speaking of training in an RV, some one told me recently that there is a guy in Phoenix who is doing transition training using an RV-9. Does any one know if this is true? If not, is there any one anywhere in Arizona doing transition training? I've got an RV-6a, I guess I should ask the insurance company if training in an RV-9 would qualify for insurance purposes. Probably not. -- Tom Sargent 06:08:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2009
From: Reuven Silberman <pilots2(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: transition training in Arizona?
There is a 7A in San Diego at KSEE. - Reuven Silberman N7WT Pilots2(at)yahoo.com --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Brian Meyette wrote: From: Brian Meyette <bmeyette(at)gmail.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: transition training in Arizona? Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 6:12 PM there is an Arizona person listed on my RV Transition Training page http://www.meyette.us/training.htm brian - From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matro nics.com] On Behalf Of thomas sargent Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 6:38 PM Subject: RV-List: transition training in Arizona? Speaking of training in an RV, some one told me recently that there is a gu y in Phoenix who is doing transition training using an RV-9.- Does any on e know if this is true?-- If not, is there any one anywhere in Arizona doing transition training? I've got an RV-6a, I guess I should ask the insurance company if training i n an RV-9 would qualify for insurance purposes.- Probably not. -- Tom Sargent href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c 3.66/2325 - Release Date: 08/25/09 06:08:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2009
Subject: Re: transition training in Arizona?
From: thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com>
Well, my source wasn't clear on whether it was a 9 or a 9A. On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 6:04 PM, Ralph Finch wrote: > > Gee, if the insurance company has any sense they would know that a -9 > (taildragger) > would work for a -6A model. Oh wait....never mind. > > > I've got an RV-6a, I guess I should ask the insurance company if training > in an RV-9 > > would qualify for insurance purposes. Probably not. > > -- Tom Sargent ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Big Iron Envy
Date: Aug 26, 2009
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
RV-List, In the past I have mentioned that a number of pilots have said how bright & noticeable my Dual Wig Wag HID lights are from the ground when I am on approach during the daylight hours. This is exactly what I wanted from the first day I saw my neighbor's Pilatus swoop into our home field with his flashing HID's a blazing. I think the little boy inside of me said... "me want." Well yesterday on a dusk flight departing the LA basin ATC called traffic "South West 737 you have RV-10 Traffic 10 O'clock, 17 miles 8,500 feet. November 110EE traffic 2:00 O'clock descending out of one-one-thousand feet a Boeing 737." Before I could respond the South West 737 replied Traffic Insight. Moments later the SW pilot told me through the controller "that is some light system he has on his RV-10, it's really easy to pick up" COOL! Getting "at a boy's" from commercial pilots. I consider the Wig-Wag HID's to be an important safety feature on my -10. Seeing is avoiding. The set up is nothing out of the ordinary with the exception of dual 35W HID lights placed in the leading edge. If interested I have a page that shows the install. http://www.painttheweb.com/rv-10/Lights_LEDHID.htm . One more thing of note. When on that page you will also see some pretty expensive (but nice) LED Position Lights. My next build is an RV-8A and I have found a set of Red & Green LED bulbs for around $8.00 each including wired sockets (eBay). These appear to be an excellent and cost effective solution vs. the printed circuit board LED's I used on my -10. Plus some significant time savings to install as well. I will report results once flying. Not exactly the LED's I purchased but this gives you an idea of the concept: eBay Item# 380151029392 <http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/G18-67-67-Hyper-Green-15-LED-Light-Bulb- 12v-1156-61-63_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem5882 c45e90QQitemZ380151029392QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories > Robin RV-4 Sold RV-6A Sold RV-10 75 Hours RV-8A Flying 2010 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <bmeyette(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Big Iron Envy
Date: Aug 26, 2009
i'm confused - I thought HIDs couldn't (or shouldn't) be flashed _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:43 AM Subject: RV-List: Big Iron Envy RV-List, In the past I have mentioned that a number of pilots have said how bright & noticeable my Dual Wig Wag HID lights are from the ground when I am on approach during the daylight hours. This is exactly what I wanted from the first day I saw my neighbor's Pilatus swoop into our home field with his flashing HID's a blazing. I think the little boy inside of me said. "me want." Well yesterday on a dusk flight departing the LA basin ATC called traffic "South West 737 you have RV-10 Traffic 10 O'clock, 17 miles 8,500 feet. November 110EE traffic 2:00 O'clock descending out of one-one-thousand feet a Boeing 737." Before I could respond the South West 737 replied Traffic Insight. Moments later the SW pilot told me through the controller "that is some light system he has on his RV-10, it's really easy to pick up" COOL! Getting "at a boy's" from commercial pilots. I consider the Wig-Wag HID's to be an important safety feature on my -10. Seeing is avoiding. The set up is nothing out of the ordinary with the exception of dual 35W HID lights placed in the leading edge. If interested I have a page that shows the install. http://www.painttheweb.com/rv-10/Lights_LEDHID.htm . One more thing of note. When on that page you will also see some pretty expensive (but nice) LED Position Lights. My next build is an RV-8A and I have found a set of Red & Green LED bulbs for around $8.00 each including wired sockets (eBay). These appear to be an excellent and cost effective solution vs. the printed circuit board LED's I used on my -10. Plus some significant time savings to install as well. I will report results once flying. Not exactly the LED's I purchased but this gives you an idea of the concept: eBay Item# 380151029392 <http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/G18-67-67-Hyper-Green-15-LED-Light-Bulb-12v- 1156-61-63_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem5882c45e90QQ itemZ380151029392QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories> Robin RV-4 Sold RV-6A Sold RV-10 75 Hours RV-8A Flying 2010 06:08:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Big Iron Envy
Date: Aug 26, 2009
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
Many WigWag kits available. Most important that the controllers have a warm up feature so the bulb is not cycled till it is warm. Regarding Wig Wag: http://www.duckworksav.com/WigWag.html REMEMBER: Not all wig-wags will work with HID lights! Be sure you use one specifically designed for use with HID units. Duckworks True Solid State Flasher This Flasher is great for new installations, or as a fantastic replacement for a setup where you want to upgrade to support HID, or your Flasher has failed or is inadequate and you want to use the switches you already have in the panel. * No 'Clacking' Relays - ALL Solid State - Silent operation * Compatible with Halogen and HID Units * Small and lightweight * Alternating Flash at 1.1Hz Flash Rate * Capable of handling up to 300W (150W per side) * Mixing of HID and Halogen Lamps OK * Simple 4 wire connection * Easy Mounting with removable Flange * Full instructions including wiring diagrams Note - This unit does NOT have an automatic HID 'warm-up' feature like the XeVision unit. Pilot must remember to warm-up the HID lights before switching to Flash. See our switch <http://www.duckworksav.com/WigWag.html#Switches> options below. Application Order direct from Duckworks Price Order All Halogen and HID Lights TSSFlasher- Sale! <http://www.duckworksav.com/WigWag.html#TSSFlasher> (while supplies last) $85 MaxPulse Flasher/Total Light Control * Single Knob Control of both Lights - Off, Starboard, Port, Both, Alternating or Both Pulse * Dual 10A Circuits * Small and Easy to Install * Fully FAA PMA STC Certified * Mixing of HID and Halogen Lamps OK * Automatic startup of HID Lamps * Full instructions including wiring diagrams * More Information - Brochure <http://www.duckworksav.com/Docs/DealerStuff/Brochures/pulser_brochure_9 -28-08.pdf> Go to the MaxPulse <http://www.seatoneng.com/docs/latestdocs.htm> site to see Installation Instructions, Diagrams, and STC Documentation. Application Order direct from Duckworks Price Order Halogen Lamps and HID Lamps MaxPulse- Sale! <http://www.duckworksav.com/WigWag.html#TSSFlasher> (while supplies last) $140 http://www.tcwtech.com/ILC-4ch.htm http://www.xevision.com/hid_pulsing.html Very important that the Wig/Wag has Warm Up Feature so HID does not pulse till fully warmed up (30 seconds or so). Good luck, Robin From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Meyette Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:39 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Big Iron Envy i'm confused - I thought HIDs couldn't (or shouldn't) be flashed ________________________________ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:43 AM Subject: RV-List: Big Iron Envy RV-List, In the past I have mentioned that a number of pilots have said how bright & noticeable my Dual Wig Wag HID lights are from the ground when I am on approach during the daylight hours. This is exactly what I wanted from the first day I saw my neighbor's Pilatus swoop into our home field with his flashing HID's a blazing. I think the little boy inside of me said... "me want." Well yesterday on a dusk flight departing the LA basin ATC called traffic "South West 737 you have RV-10 Traffic 10 O'clock, 17 miles 8,500 feet. November 110EE traffic 2:00 O'clock descending out of one-one-thousand feet a Boeing 737." Before I could respond the South West 737 replied Traffic Insight. Moments later the SW pilot told me through the controller "that is some light system he has on his RV-10, it's really easy to pick up" COOL! Getting "at a boy's" from commercial pilots. I consider the Wig-Wag HID's to be an important safety feature on my -10. Seeing is avoiding. The set up is nothing out of the ordinary with the exception of dual 35W HID lights placed in the leading edge. If interested I have a page that shows the install. http://www.painttheweb.com/rv-10/Lights_LEDHID.htm . One more thing of note. When on that page you will also see some pretty expensive (but nice) LED Position Lights. My next build is an RV-8A and I have found a set of Red & Green LED bulbs for around $8.00 each including wired sockets (eBay). These appear to be an excellent and cost effective solution vs. the printed circuit board LED's I used on my -10. Plus some significant time savings to install as well. I will report results once flying. Not exactly the LED's I purchased but this gives you an idea of the concept: eBay Item# 380151029392 <http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/G18-67-67-Hyper-Green-15-LED-Light-Bulb- 12v-1156-61-63_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem5882 c45e90QQitemZ380151029392QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories > Robin RV-4 Sold RV-6A Sold RV-10 75 Hours RV-8A Flying 2010 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. c om/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c 270.13.66/2325 - Release Date: 08/25/09 06:08:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph Finch" <rgf(at)dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Big Iron Envy
Date: Aug 26, 2009
They can be flashed if they're allowed to warmup up first (30-60 seconds of steady on). Even then the life is shortened but it's still measured in the 1000s of hours I believe. RF From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Meyette Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:39 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Big Iron Envy i'm confused - I thought HIDs couldn't (or shouldn't) be flashed ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "SteinAir, Inc." <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Last call for free GNS-430W upgrade
Date: Aug 26, 2009
Hi all, In case anyone missed it, I thought I'd post this one last time. If you have a NEW in the box NON WAAS 430, or a NEVER FLOWN 430 NON WAAS, we'll trade you right now for a brand spankin new 430W. The unit has to have zero flight hours on it, no repairs from Garmin (never sent back). It can be installed, just not flown. If you have such a unit, please get hold of me asap and we'll trade you out! Cheers, Stein _________________________________________ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2009
From: Carlos Hernandez <carlosh(at)structuralaz.com>
Subject: Re: Big Iron Envy
Here's a site that has done something very simila regarding the nav lights light the ones you've shown. Here's his link. http://www.reiffpreheat.com/RV4.htm Scroll to the bottom to see his installed pics. Carlos in Arizona Robin Marks wrote: > > RV-List, > > In the past I have mentioned that a number of pilots > have said how bright & noticeable my Dual Wig Wag HID lights are from > the ground when I am on approach during the daylight hours. This is > exactly what I wanted from the first day I saw my neighbor's Pilatus > swoop into our home field with his flashing HID's a blazing. I think > the little boy inside of me said... "me want." > > Well yesterday on a dusk flight departing the LA basin > ATC called traffic "South West 737 you have RV-10 Traffic 10 O'clock, > 17 miles 8,500 feet. November 110EE traffic 2:00 O'clock descending > out of one-one-thousand feet a Boeing 737." Before I could respond the > South West 737 replied Traffic Insight. Moments later the SW pilot > told me through the controller "that is some light system he has on > his RV-10, it's really easy to pick up" COOL! Getting "at a boy's" > from commercial pilots. > > I consider the Wig-Wag HID's to be an important safety feature on my > -10. Seeing is avoiding. > > The set up is nothing out of the ordinary with the > exception of dual 35W HID lights placed in the leading edge. If > interested I have a page that shows the install. > http://www.painttheweb.com/rv-10/Lights_LEDHID.htm . One more thing > of note. When on that page you will also see some pretty expensive > (but nice) LED Position Lights. My next build is an RV-8A and I have > found a set of Red & Green LED bulbs for around $8.00 each including > wired sockets (eBay). These appear to be an excellent and cost > effective solution vs. the printed circuit board LED's I used on my > -10. Plus some significant time savings to install as well. I will > report results once flying. > > Not exactly the LED's I purchased but this gives you an idea of the > concept: eBay Item# 380151029392 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/G18-67-67-Hyper-Green-15-LED-Light-Bulb-12v-1156-61-63_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem5882c45e90QQitemZ380151029392QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories> > > > > Robin > > RV-4 Sold > > RV-6A Sold > > RV-10 75 Hours > > RV-8A Flying 2010 > > * > > > * -- Carlos Hernandez <carlosh@sec-engr.com> Structural Engineers Company 2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3 Chandler, AZ 85224 Phone: 480.968.8600 Fax: 480.968.8608 www.sec-engr.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged. This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination or copyingof this email and its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is prohibited. If you havereceived this email in error, please immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email from your system. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: " Bruce Bell" <brucebell74(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: RV-4 Preview plan questions
Date: Aug 26, 2009
Dream about a RV-8! Bruce Bell RV-4 2888 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: vm1000
From: "432SC" <chalfin(at)uthscsa.edu>
Date: Aug 26, 2009
The chip is an ST M48T02-150PC1 "Timekeeper RAM" chip. I bought one from Newark or Digi-Key, I can't remember which. I believe that VMS specified an eight year replacement interval, but my aircraft's manufacturer (Diamond) initially specified two years in the maintenance manual, so I replaced it then. Subsequently, Diamond changed the interval to agree with VMS's eight years. Can you post (or e-mail) the instructions regarding tach time reset? I can't find mine (maybe I'm the one who needs a new memory battery!). Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259835#259835 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2009
From: Joe Belany <joeb116(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-4 Preview plan questions
I hope this hasn't been answered yet. The figure number refers to the figu re as depicted in your preview plans. For example, on page 6-20 you are re ferred to figure 6.18 for rolling the rudder leading edge. Figure 6.18 is directly below it on the page. Everything you get with the kit is the same pages again, for example Chapter 6 for the empenage, along with the drawin gs which you reference placement and measurements. The large prints are id entical to the small ones in the back of your book, drawings 3a-9a for the empenage.=0A=0A Joe, AI9Z=0AGrid: EN46no=0ARV-4, Empenage=0APounding rivets ...=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: MacDonald Dou g =0ATo: rv-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, Augu st 26, 2009 10:07:05 AM=0ASubject: RV-List: RV-4 Preview plan questions=0A =0AHey guys, I have recently started going through my RV-4 (Nov 08 vintage) preview plans. I am kind of following along as though I were really build ing the plane. I am looking through section 6 which is the assembly of the empanage group. The assembly instructions reference DWG numbers which I h ave figured out with no problem. Where I am having issues is that it is re ferencing figure numbers that I don't seem to have. I have Fig 6-1 through fig 6-4 but don't have Fig 6-5 through 6-11 that are mentioned in the asse mbly instructions.=0A=0AMy question is:=0A=0Aa) Are these figures not inclu ded because these are just the Preview Plans and are therefore included in the final plans?=0A=0Ab) Are the "missing" figures buried elsewhere in the plans and even though I have looked, I just haven't found them yet? I woul d think they would be located with the 6-1 through 6-4 but who knows.=0A=0A c) Were these pages accidentally omitted from the Preview Plans package by Van's (or their printer)? =0A=0AI realize that Van's is excellent about ans wering issues like this but I figure that I should leave their precious tim e to people that have started drilling and cutting rather than just evaluat ing like me.=0A=0ADoug MacDonald=0ARV-4 dreamer=0ANW Ontario, Canada=0A=0AD o not archive=0A=0A=0A _______________________________________________ ___________________=0AThe new Internet Explorer=AE 8 - Faster, safer, easie r. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.co =======================0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 2009
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Flying over water
Living and flying around the DelMarVa peninsula provides great scenery - lots of farms, rivers, and places to go. I'm concerned that there is a lot of water here - with the Chesapeake and Delaware bays nearby...and let's not forget the Atlantic Ocean. I'm thinking that I should be carrying some sort of water survival gear for my trips across the bay's at least. Does anyone know what the specific rules are? I don't have my FAR/AIM with me - and I am still flying off my phase I hours. The Cape May County airport (WWD) is within my 50nm circle and I could climb to altitude to ensure a safe glide distance to either side of the bay...but I would really like to know the right way..... Eventually, I'll be heading north to visit family in New England and there'll be some water to cross on the way there - regardless of the chosen route. So...what are the rules? And....what is everyone really doing? Thanks, Ralph RV6A N822AR @ N06 24.9 hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Cudney <yenduc(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Van's "homecoming"
Date: Aug 27, 2009
My wife and I will be leaving tomorrow morning for Independence ((7S5) for the annual RV gathering. We plan to leave at 7:00 a.m. and will monitor 122.75. Cheapest fuel seems to be either Colusa (O08) or Lincoln Co ((KLHM), both listed at $3.99 on AvWEB currently. Hope to see some of you there. Dave and Loretta RV 7A (110 hours) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "GLAESER, DENNIS" <dennis.glaeser(at)hp.com>
Date: Aug 27, 2009
Subject: Re: Flying over water
For Part 91 operations (non-commercial), there are no rules. You're free to do whatever 'floats your boat' (couldn't help myself :-) Commercial operations are required to have life vests for each person, a raft (big enough for everyone) and a pyrotechnic signal device (IIRC - haven't reviewed the regs lately) I fly over water on trips from SE MI to Ohio over Lake Erie, and over Lake Michigan to OSH. Whenever possible, I choose routes and altitudes that keep me, for the most part, within gliding distance of shore, and I'm always in contact with ATC or FSS in some manner (IFR, flight following, ...) I usually borrow life vests from a buddy who has a sea plane. You can get decent light weight life vests and signaling devices at a boating store. It's basically like insurance, better to have it and do whatever you can to never need it. But the bottom line is that you are free to do whatever meets your comfort level. Dennis Glaeser RV-7A N751DG @ 57D - 150 hrs ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ralph E. Capen Living and flying around the DelMarVa peninsula provides great scenery - lots of farms, rivers, and places to go. I'm concerned that there is a lot of water here - with the Chesapeake and Delaware bays nearby...and let's not forget the Atlantic Ocean. I'm thinking that I should be carrying some sort of water survival gear for my trips across the bay's at least. Does anyone know what the specific rules are? I don't have my FAR/AIM with me - and I am still flying off my phase I hours. The Cape May County airport (WWD) is within my 50nm circle and I could climb to altitude to ensure a safe glide distance to either side of the bay...but I would really like to know the right way..... Eventually, I'll be heading north to visit family in New England and there'll be some water to cross on the way there - regardless of the chosen route. So...what are the rules? And....what is everyone really doing? Thanks, Ralph RV6A N822AR @ N06 24.9 hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 2009
Subject: Re: Flying over water
From: Randy Hooper <krhooper(at)gmail.com>
You might read FAR 91.509 Randy Hooper On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:31 AM, GLAESER, DENNIS wrote: > > For Part 91 operations (non-commercial), there are no rules. You're free > to do whatever 'floats your boat' (couldn't help myself :-) > Commercial operations are required to have life vests for each person, a > raft (big enough for everyone) and a pyrotechnic signal device (IIRC - > haven't reviewed the regs lately) > > I fly over water on trips from SE MI to Ohio over Lake Erie, and over Lake > Michigan to OSH. > Whenever possible, I choose routes and altitudes that keep me, for the most > part, within gliding distance of shore, and I'm always in contact with ATC > or FSS in some manner (IFR, flight following, ...) > I usually borrow life vests from a buddy who has a sea plane. > > You can get decent light weight life vests and signaling devices at a > boating store. It's basically like insurance, better to have it and do > whatever you can to never need it. But the bottom line is that you are free > to do whatever meets your comfort level. > > Dennis Glaeser > RV-7A N751DG @ 57D - 150 hrs > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: Ralph E. Capen > Living and flying around the DelMarVa peninsula provides great scenery - > lots of > farms, rivers, and places to go. > > I'm concerned that there is a lot of water here - with the Chesapeake and > Delaware > bays nearby...and let's not forget the Atlantic Ocean. > > I'm thinking that I should be carrying some sort of water survival gear for > my > trips across the bay's at least. > > Does anyone know what the specific rules are? I don't have my FAR/AIM with > me > - and I am still flying off my phase I hours. > > The Cape May County airport (WWD) is within my 50nm circle and I could > climb to > altitude to ensure a safe glide distance to either side of the bay...but I > would > really like to know the right way..... > > Eventually, I'll be heading north to visit family in New England and > there'll be > some water to cross on the way there - regardless of the chosen route. > > So...what are the rules? > > And....what is everyone really doing? > > Thanks, > Ralph > RV6A N822AR @ N06 24.9 hrs > > -- Randy Hooper ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dynon D10A/EDC in and RV-9A - weird behaviour
From: "mike(at)hotlinesinc.com" <mike(at)hotlinesinc.com>
Date: Aug 27, 2009
Beware of internal pitot leaks with Dynon D10A I installed a Dynon 10A a couple years ago as a back up AI in a warbird. A recent pitot static check uncovered a pitot leak that was pretty severe. The leak was traced and verified as being internal to the Dynon D10A. Disassembly of the unit revealed that the pitot connection to the solid state sensor for airspeed was loose. The static port on the sensor also came loose during disassembly. This unit has under 10 hours of operation. There is no way I would depend on this unit as a primary flight instrument Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259987#259987 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 2009
From: Hal Kempthorne <hal_kempthorne(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Koger sun shade on Ebay
Item number 260467339246 hal ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flying over water
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Date: Aug 27, 2009
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Date: Aug 27, 2009
Subject: Re: Dynon D10A/EDC in and RV-9A - weird behaviour
From: Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com>
We've seen that kind of thing, too. The latest was that our (backup) D-10A just went blank on a training approach. Nice. I agree, not ready for primetime. We have one flying and two in panels under construction. All have been back to the factory at least once. On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:12 AM, mike(at)hotlinesinc.com wrote: > mike(at)hotlinesinc.com> > > Beware of internal pitot leaks with Dynon D10A > > I installed a Dynon 10A a couple years ago as a back up AI in a warbird. > A recent pitot static check uncovered a pitot leak that was pretty severe. > The leak was traced and verified as being internal to the Dynon D10A. > Disassembly of the unit revealed that the pitot connection to the solid > state sensor for airspeed was loose. The static port on the sensor also came > loose during disassembly. > This unit has under 10 hours of operation. > There is no way I would depend on this unit as a primary flight instrument > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259987#259987 > > -- Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 2009
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Flying over water
Here's what I got from another list response: "I think the way it works for part 91 aircraft such as the RV's is that there are no specific rules. There are regulations regarding survival equipment (91.509 -[ http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=fa6bbc1247720f831fa68e0c062499c6&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.10.6.7.5&idno=14 ]) and communication equipment (91.511 - [ http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=fa6bbc1247720f831fa68e0c062499c6&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.10.6.7.6&idno=14 ]), but these regulations fall under Subpart F and apply only to large turbine-powered multi-engine aircraft and aircraft that are in a fractional ownership program." Thanks to Dan Baier..... -----Original Message----- >From: Greg Young <gyoung@cs-sol.com> >Sent: Aug 27, 2009 12:45 PM >To: RV List >Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Flying over water > >Why don't you just enlighten us? >Regards, >Greg > >-----Original Message----- >From: Randy Hooper <krhooper(at)gmail.com> > >Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:10:28 >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Flying over water > > >You might read FAR 91.509 > >Randy Hooper > >On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:31 AM, GLAESER, DENNIS wrote: > >> >> For Part 91 operations (non-commercial), there are no rules. You're free >> to do whatever 'floats your boat' (couldn't help myself :-) >> Commercial operations are required to have life vests for each person, a >> raft (big enough for everyone) and a pyrotechnic signal device (IIRC - >> haven't reviewed the regs lately) >> >> I fly over water on trips from SE MI to Ohio over Lake Erie, and over Lake >> Michigan to OSH. >> Whenever possible, I choose routes and altitudes that keep me, for the most >> part, within gliding distance of shore, and I'm always in contact with ATC >> or FSS in some manner (IFR, flight following, ...) >> I usually borrow life vests from a buddy who has a sea plane. >> >> You can get decent light weight life vests and signaling devices at a >> boating store. It's basically like insurance, better to have it and do >> whatever you can to never need it. But the bottom line is that you are free >> to do whatever meets your comfort level. >> >> Dennis Glaeser >> RV-7A N751DG @ 57D - 150 hrs >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> From: Ralph E. Capen >> Living and flying around the DelMarVa peninsula provides great scenery - >> lots of >> farms, rivers, and places to go. >> >> I'm concerned that there is a lot of water here - with the Chesapeake and >> Delaware >> bays nearby...and let's not forget the Atlantic Ocean. >> >> I'm thinking that I should be carrying some sort of water survival gear for >> my >> trips across the bay's at least. >> >> Does anyone know what the specific rules are? I don't have my FAR/AIM with >> me >> - and I am still flying off my phase I hours. >> >> The Cape May County airport (WWD) is within my 50nm circle and I could >> climb to >> altitude to ensure a safe glide distance to either side of the bay...but I >> would >> really like to know the right way..... >> >> Eventually, I'll be heading north to visit family in New England and >> there'll be >> some water to cross on the way there - regardless of the chosen route. >> >> So...what are the rules? >> >> And....what is everyone really doing? >> >> Thanks, >> Ralph >> RV6A N822AR @ N06 24.9 hrs >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >-- >Randy Hooper > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flying over water
From: Michael W Stewart <mike.stewart(at)us.ibm.com>
Date: Aug 27, 2009
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From: "GLAESER, DENNIS" <dennis.glaeser(at)hp.com>
Date: Aug 27, 2009
Subject: Re: Re: Flying overwater
I knew I should have checked the regs before saying 'there are no rules' :-( But,in my defense, those rules only apply to large and turbine powered multi-engine aircraft when flying more than 50 NM min from shore. They are a good idea for any size aircraft further than gliding distance from terra-firma. Dennis ------------------------ From: Randy Hooper You might read FAR 91.509 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 2009
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: Flying over water
You might read the preamble to subpart F that 509 is in: "91.501 (a) This subpart prescribes operating rules, in addition to those prescribed in other subparts of this part, governing the operation of large airplanes of U.S. registry, turbojet-powered multiengine civil airplanes of U.S. registry, and fractional ownership program aircraft of U.S. registry that are operating under subpart K of this part in operations not involving common carriage." AFAIK, no RV has multiengine turbojet power, and none come close to the gross wt limits of a large aircraft. Randy Hooper wrote: > You might read FAR 91.509 > > Randy Hooper > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:31 AM, GLAESER, DENNIS > wrote: > > > > > For Part 91 operations (non-commercial), there are no rules. You're > free to do whatever 'floats your boat' (couldn't help myself :-) > Commercial operations are required to have life vests for each > person, a raft (big enough for everyone) and a pyrotechnic signal > device (IIRC - haven't reviewed the regs lately) > > I fly over water on trips from SE MI to Ohio over Lake Erie, and > over Lake Michigan to OSH. > Whenever possible, I choose routes and altitudes that keep me, for > the most part, within gliding distance of shore, and I'm always in > contact with ATC or FSS in some manner (IFR, flight following, ...) > I usually borrow life vests from a buddy who has a sea plane. > > You can get decent light weight life vests and signaling devices at > a boating store. It's basically like insurance, better to have it > and do whatever you can to never need it. But the bottom line is > that you are free to do whatever meets your comfort level. > > Dennis Glaeser > RV-7A N751DG @ 57D - 150 hrs > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: Ralph E. Capen > Living and flying around the DelMarVa peninsula provides great > scenery - lots of > farms, rivers, and places to go. > > I'm concerned that there is a lot of water here - with the > Chesapeake and Delaware > bays nearby...and let's not forget the Atlantic Ocean. > > I'm thinking that I should be carrying some sort of water survival > gear for my > trips across the bay's at least. > > Does anyone know what the specific rules are? I don't have my > FAR/AIM with me > - and I am still flying off my phase I hours. > > The Cape May County airport (WWD) is within my 50nm circle and I > could climb to > altitude to ensure a safe glide distance to either side of the > bay...but I would > really like to know the right way..... > > Eventually, I'll be heading north to visit family in New England and > there'll be > some water to cross on the way there - regardless of the chosen route. > > So...what are the rules? > > And....what is everyone really doing? > owse, Chat, FAQ, > ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List" > target="_blank">http://ww== > http://forums.mle, List Admin. > ==== > > > > <http://forums.matronics.com/> > > > > <http://forums.matronics.com/> > > -- > Randy Hooper > <http://forums.matronics.com/> > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: Re: Flying over water
Date: Aug 27, 2009
I have been considering one of those suspender types for when I cut the corner over Apalachicola Bay going to SnF. They are a Class III device. Hoping they would be good if I ever wanted to fly to the Bahamas I asked AOPA what was required and they said any Coast Guard approved device was OK. I'm not sure what reg covers international over water but everyone acts like there is one. Darn near anything other than a water ski belt is a Class III or better so take your pick based on physical and mental comfort. Regards, Greg Young > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Ralph E. Capen > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 2:33 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Flying over water > > > > Thanks Mike..... > Meaning that I'm kinda back to the original no-real-rules statement. > I'm thinking a set of inflatable suspender-type with a light > and whistle attached (like I use while sailing) is a good > start - I can wear that and still strap in properly. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Date: Aug 27, 2009
Subject: Re: Flying over water
You can't just take ever FAR at face value. You have to find the applicability statement that applies to the regulation in question. The applicability for FAR 91 Subpart F (91.501 to 91.535) is found in 91.501: "This subpart prescribes operating rules, in addition to those prescribed in other subparts of this part, governing the operation of large airplanes of U.S. registry, turbojet-powered multiengine civil airplanes of U.S. registry ...". 91.509 is not applicable to RVs. So - no rules. If the water is warm enough so you could survive immersion for a few hours, I would simply wear inflatable life jackets. If the water was cold enough that you might not survive for a few hours, I would either wear an immersion suit, or I would remain within gliding distance of shore. Transport Canada publication TP13822 "Survival in Cold Waters : Staying Alive" is a good resource (10 MB pdf): <http://www.tc.gc.ca/publications/EN/TP13822/PDF/HR/TP13822E.pdf> The data in Figure 2 in Chapter 1 of TP 13822 suggests that if the water is 65 deg F or warmer, that someone wearing a life jacket will survive for many, many hours. The survival time starts to fall off significantly if the water temperature is below 60 deg F. This document presents data from many studies. The data from laboratory studies, using cold water tanks, suggests longer survival times that is found in studies using real bodies of water. If there are no waves (as in a laboratory study), and the survivor keeps still, rather than trying to swim, he might survive 3 hours if the water is 50 deg F. But, if there are waves, the survivor must keep the limbs moving to keep the waves at his back. Moving the limbs causes more heat to be lost, and eventually the muscles become non-responsive. Then he may drown as he cannot prevent the body from turning to face the waves. Bottom line - if the water is colder than 60 deg F, a life jacket alone probably isn't enough to guarantee survival, unless there is enough water traffic that you would be rescued quickly. -- Kevin Horton Ottawa, Canada On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:10, Randy Hooper wrote: > > You might read FAR 91.509 > > Randy Hooper > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:31 AM, GLAESER, DENNIS wrote: >> >> >> For Part 91 operations (non-commercial), there are no rules. You're free to do whatever 'floats your boat' (couldn't help myself :-) >> Commercial operations are required to have life vests for each person, a raft (big enough for everyone) and a pyrotechnic signal device (IIRC - haven't reviewed the regs lately) >> >> I fly over water on trips from SE MI to Ohio over Lake Erie, and over Lake Michigan to OSH. >> Whenever possible, I choose routes and altitudes that keep me, for the most part, within gliding distance of shore, and I'm always in contact with ATC or FSS in some manner (IFR, flight following, ...) >> I usually borrow life vests from a buddy who has a sea plane. >> >> You can get decent light weight life vests and signaling devices at a boating store. It's basically like insurance, better to have it and do whatever you can to never need it. But the bottom line is that you are free to do whatever meets your comfort level. >> >> Dennis Glaeser >> RV-7A N751DG @ 57D - 150 hrs >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> From: Ralph E. Capen >> Living and flying around the DelMarVa peninsula provides great scenery - lots of >> farms, rivers, and places to go. >> >> I'm concerned that there is a lot of water here - with the Chesapeake and Delaware >> bays nearby...and let's not forget the Atlantic Ocean. >> >> I'm thinking that I should be carrying some sort of water survival gear for my >> trips across the bay's at least. >> >> Does anyone know what the specific rules are? I don't have my FAR/AIM with me >> - and I am still flying off my phase I hours. >> >> The Cape May County airport (WWD) is within my 50nm circle and I could climb to >> altitude to ensure a safe glide distance to either side of the bay...but I would >> really like to know the right way..... >> >> Eventually, I'll be heading north to visit family in New England and there'll be >> some water to cross on the way there - regardless of the chosen route. >> >> So...what are the rules? >> >> And....what is everyone really doing? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <bmeyette(at)gmail.com>
Subject: recommended RV brake fluid
Date: Aug 27, 2009
my RV-7A construction manual says I must not use automotive brake, but instead "use only the aircraft brake fluid recommended by the manufacturer". But they don't say what this fluid is. Does anyone know what fluids are recommended for use with the standard Van's Cleveland disk brakes? thanks, brian ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Difani" <t6pilot(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: recommended RV brake fluid
Date: Aug 27, 2009
Mil H 5606 normally is used for brake fluid and you can find it here http://www.aircraftspruce.com/search/search.php. Recommend that you go to the Cleveland website to be sure. Also, it's probably in your Cleveland Brake instructions. Do not use automotive, it'll melt the seals... Good luck and fly safe. ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Meyette To: RV7A(at)yahoogroups.com ; rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:52 PM Subject: RV-List: recommended RV brake fluid my RV-7A construction manual says I must not use automotive brake, but instead "use only the aircraft brake fluid recommended by the manufacturer". But they don't say what this fluid is. Does anyone know what fluids are recommended for use with the standard Van's Cleveland disk brakes? thanks, brian ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 2009
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: recommended RV brake fluid
The most common is 5606 .... and there is a higher temp fluid out there too. Linn Brian Meyette wrote: > my RV-7A construction manual says I must not use automotive brake, but > instead "use only the aircraft brake fluid recommended by the > manufacturer". But they don't say what this fluid is. Does anyone > know what fluids are recommended for use with the standard Van's > Cleveland disk brakes? > thanks, > brian > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <bmeyette(at)gmail.com>
Subject: recommended RV brake fluid
Date: Aug 27, 2009
Would you, or anyone, happen to know the Cleveland web site? I googled "cleveland brakes" before sending the original message, but all I got was sellers, not the mfg site. Or their phone number woudl work, too. thanks, brian _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Difani Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:08 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: recommended RV brake fluid Mil H 5606 normally is used for brake fluid and you can find it here http://www.aircraftspruce.com/search/search.php. Recommend that you go to the Cleveland website to be sure. Also, it's probably in your Cleveland Brake instructions. Do not use automotive, it'll melt the seals... Good luck and fly safe. ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Meyette <mailto:bmeyette(at)gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:52 PM Subject: RV-List: recommended RV brake fluid my RV-7A construction manual says I must not use automotive brake, but instead "use only the aircraft brake fluid recommended by the manufacturer". But they don't say what this fluid is. Does anyone know what fluids are recommended for use with the standard Van's Cleveland disk brakes? thanks, brian href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c 08:11:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: recommended RV brake fluid
Date: Aug 27, 2009
From: passpat(at)aol.com
use 5606 brake and hdy fluid -----Original Message----- From: Brian Meyette <bmeyette(at)gmail.com> Sent: Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:52 pm Subject: RV-List: recommended RV brake fluid my RV-7A construction manual says I must not use automotive brake, but instead "use only the aircraft brake fluid recommended by the manufacturer".? But they don't say what this fluid is.?? Does anyone know what fluids are recommended for use with the standard Van's Cleveland disk brakes? thanks, brian ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 2009
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: recommended RV brake fluid
From the RV-10 list archives: "A couple of RV-x main landing gear caliper fires that consumed the glass pant caused a few to change from H-5606 a few years back. The flame propagation was right below each main AVGAS fuel tank. Fiberglass fires are a perverted thing to watch. So take a test sample and learn by experiment not experience how the cured resin and glass strands come to life until gone. Mine was watching a '69 Vette being prepped for custom paint. VANS mantra is stay conservative with the brakes and build your kit bone stock. Mil H-83282 provides another level of combustion protection. I have found that H-5606 tends to coagulate with age. Its low flash point is routinely accepted by most builders without consideration of alternatives." Brian Meyette wrote: > my RV-7A construction manual says I must not use automotive brake, but > instead "use only the aircraft brake fluid recommended by the > manufacturer". But they don't say what this fluid is. Does anyone > know what fluids are recommended for use with the standard Van's > Cleveland disk brakes? > thanks, > brian > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: recommended RV brake fluid
Date: Aug 27, 2009
The company is actually Parker-Hannifin. Try <http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.14ecfc66e7a40c1af8500f199 420d1ca/?vgnextoid=43cb5242ade5c110VgnVCM10000032a71dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=defaul t&Keyword=AIRCRAFT+WHEELS+%26+BRAKES&Wtky=AIRCRAFT+WHEELS+%26+BRAKES> http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.14ecfc66e7a40c1af8500f1994 20d1ca/?vgnextoid=43cb5242ade5c110VgnVCM10000032a71dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=default &Keyword=AIRCRAFT+WHEELS+%26+BRAKES&Wtky=AIRCRAFT+WHEELS+%26+BRAKES If that URL is broken go to www.parker.com and browse to Products/Aircraft Wheels and Brakes. All kinds of info including manuals. Regards, Greg Young _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Meyette Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:42 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: recommended RV brake fluid Would you, or anyone, happen to know the Cleveland web site? I googled "cleveland brakes" before sending the original message, but all I got was sellers, not the mfg site. Or their phone number woudl work, too. thanks, brian _____ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 28, 2009
Subject: Re: recommended RV brake fluid
IMO, don't bother with the crappy old 80 yr old MIL-H-5606 fluid. Get Viton O-rings installed in your calipers and go with the updated (50 yr old) higher performance fluid MIL-PRF-83282 developed after the military got tired of putting out brake fires. Check the archives and get with the program. A brake fire will ruin your day. -N1GV In a message dated 8/27/2009 7:56:01 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bmeyette(at)gmail.com writes: my RV-7A construction manual says I must not use automotive brake, but instead "use only the aircraft brake fluid recommended by the manufacturer". But they don't say what this fluid is. Does anyone know what fluids are recommended for use with the standard Van's Cleveland disk brakes? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: recommended RV brake fluid
Date: Aug 28, 2009
Having experienced a ruptured brake line and ensuing brake fluid fire while using the 5606 fluid (Flash point around 240F), I strongly agree - use the Mi.-PRF-83232 - it's flash point is around 440F. The nice part is - it's fully compatible with the 5606 fluid so you don't have to flush your lines or replace type of seal. Naturally the more 5606 left in the system the lower the flash point from that of pure 83232. So using this fluid requires no changes to the installation - and since it is compatible with 5606 - you could always add 5606 (available at any FB0) if you find yourself needing brake fluid while away from your gallon of 83232. I would also suggest considering stainless steel, Teflon lined or other "real" brake lines. My aluminum tubing apparently fatigued and blew a chunk of the tubing wall out after an aborted take off (hot rotors). This could have been a result of me "working" hardening it while curving it around the landing rod, unnoticed damage or just material failure - but whatever the cause, you want to avoid it. But, the spraying of the low flash point 5606 on the hot rotor caused the real excitement. The resulting fire ball rose above the wing (as seen in video made by nephew), the brake peddle went to the floor and an excursion off the runway followed. Upon stopping, I popped the canopy and smelled burning resin - yes, the wheel pant was on fire and burning just below the full wing tank!! Fortunately, the fire was quickly put out and no damage to aircraft thanks to a small shallow ditch which arrested further progress. I know the aluminum tubing has been around a long time and used successfully, but there have also been several reports of brake failure. At least the SS brake lines are more likely to start seeping fluid than having a catastrophic failure. The SS brake line less likely to fail. I even went to the effort of adding rotors with double the thickness of standard rotors. The idea was that given twice the mass of the thicker rotor the same heat content would raise its temperature less. The side benefit of the thicker rotors are no brake fade, more even wear on the pads and less frequent pad replacement. Just my $0.02 YMMV Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com <http://www.andersonee.com> http://www.andersonee.com <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ <http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vanremog(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:33 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: recommended RV brake fluid IMO, don't bother with the crappy old 80 yr old MIL-H-5606 fluid. Get Viton O-rings installed in your calipers and go with the updated (50 yr old) higher performance fluid MIL-PRF-83282 developed after the military got tired of putting out brake fires. Check the archives and get with the program. A brake fire will ruin your day. -N1GV In a message dated 8/27/2009 7:56:01 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bmeyette(at)gmail.com writes: my RV-7A construction manual says I must not use automotive brake, but instead "use only the aircraft brake fluid recommended by the manufacturer". But they don't say what this fluid is. Does anyone know what fluids are recommended for use with the standard Van's Cleveland disk brakes? _____ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Date: Aug 28, 2009
Subject: Re: recommended RV brake fluid
The problem with MIL-H-5606 fluid is that it has quite a low flash point (about 215 deg F). If your brakes are hot, and a line fails, spraying brake fluid on the brake disk, you will have a fire. The wheel pant will catch on fire too, and this whole thing is burning away below the fuel tank. Several RVs have had brake fires. Fortunately everyone so far has managed to get the fire put out without losing the aircraft, but it is still something to attempt to avoid. MIL-PRF-83282 is a replacement to MIL-H-5606 that was developed by the military, with a flash point of 470 deg F, or higher. It is fully compatible with all the seals. It is not that much more expensive, but it is a little harder to find. If you are on the road, and need to top up your brake system, you can add some MIL-H-5606 fluid to the MIL-PRF-83282, but the resulting mixture has a slightly lower flash point. I found Royco 782, a MIL-PRF-83282 fluid, at a local supplier (Leavens Brothers in Toronto) for $12 a quart. It should be cheaper in the USA. This fluid is specified for some corporate aircraft, so you may find it at a local FBO. -- Kevin Horton Ottawa, Canada On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 23:42, Brian Meyette wrote: > Would you, or anyone, happen to know the Cleveland web site? I googled > "cleveland brakes" before sending the original message, but all I got was > sellers, not the mfg site. Or their phone number woudl work, too. > thanks, > brian > ________________________________ > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Difani > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:08 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: recommended RV brake fluid > > Mil H 5606 normally is used for brake fluid and you can find it here > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/search/search.php. Recommend that you go to > the Cleveland website to be sure. Also, it's probably in your Cleveland > Brake instructions. Do not use automotive, it'll melt the seals... Good > luck and fly safe. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Brian Meyette > To: RV7A(at)yahoogroups.com ; rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:52 PM > Subject: RV-List: recommended RV brake fluid > my RV-7A construction manual says I must not use automotive brake, but > instead "use only the aircraft brake fluid recommended by the > manufacturer". But they don't say what this fluid is. Does anyone know > what fluids are recommended for use with the standard Van's Cleveland disk > brakes? > thanks, > brian > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: recommended RV brake fluid
Date: Aug 28, 2009
Skygeek has Royco 782 for $8.14 a quart http://www.skygeek.com/royco-782-synthetic-fire-resistant-hydraulic-fluid.ht ml bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:42 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: recommended RV brake fluid The problem with MIL-H-5606 fluid is that it has quite a low flash point (about 215 deg F). If your brakes are hot, and a line fails, spraying brake fluid on the brake disk, you will have a fire. The wheel pant will catch on fire too, and this whole thing is burning away below the fuel tank. Several RVs have had brake fires. Fortunately everyone so far has managed to get the fire put out without losing the aircraft, but it is still something to attempt to avoid. MIL-PRF-83282 is a replacement to MIL-H-5606 that was developed by the military, with a flash point of 470 deg F, or higher. It is fully compatible with all the seals. It is not that much more expensive, but it is a little harder to find. If you are on the road, and need to top up your brake system, you can add some MIL-H-5606 fluid to the MIL-PRF-83282, but the resulting mixture has a slightly lower flash point. I found Royco 782, a MIL-PRF-83282 fluid, at a local supplier (Leavens Brothers in Toronto) for $12 a quart. It should be cheaper in the USA. This fluid is specified for some corporate aircraft, so you may find it at a local FBO. -- Kevin Horton Ottawa, Canada On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 23:42, Brian Meyette wrote: > Would you, or anyone, happen to know the Cleveland web site? I googled > "cleveland brakes" before sending the original message, but all I got was > sellers, not the mfg site. Or their phone number woudl work, too. > thanks, > brian > ________________________________ > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Difani > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:08 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: recommended RV brake fluid > > Mil H 5606 normally is used for brake fluid and you can find it here > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/search/search.php. Recommend that you go to > the Cleveland website to be sure. Also, it's probably in your Cleveland > Brake instructions. Do not use automotive, it'll melt the seals... Good > luck and fly safe. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Brian Meyette > To: RV7A(at)yahoogroups.com ; rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:52 PM > Subject: RV-List: recommended RV brake fluid > my RV-7A construction manual says I must not use automotive brake, but > instead "use only the aircraft brake fluid recommended by the > manufacturer". But they don't say what this fluid is. Does anyone know > what fluids are recommended for use with the standard Van's Cleveland disk > brakes? > thanks, > brian > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "charlie heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject: Viton o-rings
Date: Aug 29, 2009
I thought I had the part # someone gave me in reply to my sticking left brake problem, but as sometimes happens It seems to have gotten lost in the shuffel. This is for my RV6A. Can you repeat it pls? Im also going to strongly consider changing to the high temmp fluid. I assume a qt will do the job? Tnaks, Charlie Heathco ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tailgummer(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 29, 2009
Subject: Re: Viton o-rings
>From Randy Lervold's site: Standard MS replacement O-rings areMS28775-218; 2-218V-75 are the Viton O-rings. Try Ace Seal: _http://www.aceseal.com_ (http://www.aceseal.com/) . The High temp fluid is: . MIL-H-83282. Google Royco 782 or Aeroshell 31. John D In a message dated 8/29/2009 3:36:52 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cheathco(at)cox.net writes: I thought I had the part # someone gave me in reply to my sticking left brake problem, but as sometimes happens It seems to have gotten lost in the shuffel. This is for my RV6A. Can you repeat it pls? Im also going to strongly consider changing to the high temmp fluid. I assume a qt will do the job? Tnaks, Charlie Heathco (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2009
Subject: Re: Viton o-rings
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Way more than you will use. I used about a half of a pint. I found a buddy who bought the gallon that ACS sells and bought about a quart from him. I have a lot left over. Jim ____________________________________________________________ Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTFoYbRcwmDo7KbCXiKRHO5e04eI3PxhDcrNZUwhJojBoVja1zFjU0/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Hartzell Prop Goes On Today!
Listers! It seemed like a rather momentous occasion today since the Hartzell CS prop got mounted to the front of the 'ol RV-8 project!! Yahoo! I really like the looks of the non-blended airfoil blades. They just have a more traditional, mean and manly look, IMHO. The 72" dia also has those fatter paddles which looks cool too. Just two weeks from initial engine mounting to prop installation. The FWF controls and wiring are done too. All of the CHT/EGT/PSI probes even worked the first time! Anyway, just thought I'd share. Cowling goes on next, then the baffling... Wish me luck. ;-) Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle Cowling and Baffling... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: BCAA fly-in: more info
From: "Nathan_pa" <warhawknm(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 29, 2009
hi all, If anyone is interested: I am organizing some interesting things for my local airports fly-in breakfast that will be held at the Bradford county airport in Bradford county, Pa. On October 11th, 2009 from 7am to 1pm. Breakfast is $6.00. I have been busy organizing some aircraft for the event. So far I have the following planning to attend: -Guthrie Med Helicopter. -C-45, An-2 and L-birds from Geneseo NY. -PT-17 Stearman -A-10 fly-by. -U.S. Coast Guard Helicopter. -PA and NY Civil Air Patrol aircraft. So if anyone here is interested stop on in. Thanks, Nathan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260428#260428 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "charlie heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Viton o-rings
Date: Aug 30, 2009
Ok, thanks a bunch for those numbers. Chalrie ----- Original Message ----- From: Tailgummer(at)aol.com To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 08:34 Subject: Re: RV-List: Viton o-rings From Randy Lervold's site: Standard MS replacement O-rings areMS28775-218; 2-218V-75 are the Viton O-rings. Try Ace Seal: http://www.aceseal.com. The High temp fluid is: . MIL-H-83282. Google Royco 782 or Aeroshell 31. John D In a message dated 8/29/2009 3:36:52 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cheathco(at)cox.net writes: I thought I had the part # someone gave me in reply to my sticking left brake problem, but as sometimes happens It seems to have gotten lost in the shuffel. This is for my RV6A. Can you repeat it pls? Im also going to strongly consider changing to the high temmp fluid. I assume a qt will do the job? Tnaks, Charlie Heathco ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?RV-List ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Fitting The Spinner To A Hartzell
Listers, Hartzell recommends a minimum .1" clearance around the prop blade for the spinner. I did that exactly, but the prop would still bang on the spinner at full pitch. I had to hog out to .25" to keep the clearance at .1" at full pitch. It looked stupid having such a large gap in one area only so I evened it up to .25" all the way around. But now it kind of looks like I made the holes too big. I just can't recall seeing other installations to know if my .25" is "too much". Anyone have any pics or thoughts on the clearance using late-model Van's CS spinner and a Hartzell, particularly the 72" paddle blades I've got? Thanks! Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2009
From: Louis Willig <larywil(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Fitting The Spinner To A Hartzell
At 12:35 PM 8/30/2009, you wrote: > > >< >Hartzell recommends a minimum .1" clearance around the prop blade >for the spinner. I did that exactly, but the prop would still bang >on the spinner at full pitch. I had to hog out to .25" to keep the >clearance at .1" at full pitch. It looked stupid having such a >large gap in one area only so I evened it up to .25" all the way >around. But now it kind of looks like I made the holes too big. I >just can't recall seeing other installations to know if my .25" is >"too much". Anyone have any pics or thoughts on the clearance using >late-model Van's CS spinner and a Hartzell, particularly the 72" >paddle blades I've got?>> Hi Matt, Look, its a constant speed prop. It will never look like the close fitted spinner of your old fixed pitch. Unless you plan to enter a CAFE race or try out at Reno, leave the .25" gap. This, of course is my opinion, but, my -4 has a similar gap and I think nothing of it. Louis I Willig 1640 Oakwood Dr. Penn Valley, PA 19072 610 668-4964 RV-4, N180PF 190HP IO-360, C/S prop ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Nosewheel vibration update
Date: Aug 30, 2009
From: jhnstniii(at)AOL.COM
Listers--Promised I would report on our efforts to stop the vertical vibration of our nosewheel/pant assembly. We started with the tire. We bought a motorcycle wheel balancer (simple rod rolling on ball bearing supports type) and immediately noticed the tire was quite out of round and out of balance.?We thought "problem solved" and bought a new tire.?This one was round.?We added weights until it was balanced, and?during taxi testing were surprised to find there was no improvement.? We then tried different combinations of tire pressure and bearing torque (within the required limits).?The best was with very low tire pressure and medium torque, but we still had the problem at?20 mph or more.? So?then we glassed?a piece of wood (with four layers of medium weight glass) on to the leg from the bend at the bottom up to where it enters the cowling, hoping to change the vibration characteristics.?No improvement!? I wonder if a little lead in the nose or tail of the pant might help (th e pant is balanced fore and aft right now so doing this would actually?unbalance it). We are running out of ideas. One of our hangar buddies was up at OSH watching the RVs taxi by for takeoff and he said many of them had vibrating nosewheels. We have the new type nosewheel fork. Don't know if there is a vibrational difference between this type and the old type. Any ideas? Thanks. LeRoy Johnston and David White RV-6A N176LD Esperanza 200+ hours flying.???????????????? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Orear <jorear(at)new.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Nosewheel vibration update
Date: Aug 30, 2009
This may seem rather rudimentary, but are you sure it is your nosewheel that is shimmying? I thought I had a nosewheel shake as well until a local pilot saw me land while waiting at the hold short line and reported that my left main was the culprit. I suspect uneven tire wear, but balancing out the wheel/tire resulted in some improvement. I plan to replace the main tires/tubes at next conditional inspection. Just a thought. Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A N782P Peshtigo, WI On Aug 30, 2009, at 1:21 PM, jhnstniii(at)aol.com wrote: > Listers--Promised I would report on our efforts to stop the vertical > vibration of our nosewheel/pant assembly. We started with the tire. > We bought a motorcycle wheel balancer (simple rod rolling on ball > bearing supports type) and immediately noticed the tire was quite > out of round and out of balance. We thought "problem solved" and > bought a new tire. This one was round. We added weights until it was > balanced, and during taxi testing were surprised to find there was > no improvement. We then tried different combinations of tire > pressure and bearing torque (within the required limits). The best > was with very low tire pressure and medium torque, but we still had > the problem at 20 mph or more. So then we glassed a piece of wood > (with four layers of medium weight glass) on to the leg from the > bend at the bottom up to where it enters the cowling, hoping to > change the vibration characteristics. No improvement! I wonde r if > a little lead in the nose or tail of the pant might help (the pant > is balanced fore and aft right now so doing this would actually > unbalance it). We are running out of ideas. One of our hangar > buddies was up at OSH watching the RVs taxi by for takeoff and he > said many of them had vibrating nosewheels. We have the new type > nosewheel fork. Don't know if there is a vibrational difference > between this type and the old type. Any ideas? Thanks. LeRoy > Johnston and David White RV-6A N176LD Esperanza 200+ hours flying. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dave.gribble(at)mchsi.com
Subject: Re: Nosewheel vibration update
Date: Aug 30, 2009
Some people have installed a $40 Matco axle that reduces rolling friction... and some people have changed to a $300 Grove nosewheel with conventional felt seals (instead of rubber seals) to reduce rolling friction. What setup are you running? -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: jhnstniii(at)aol.com > > Listers--Promised I would report on our efforts to stop the vertical vibration > of our nosewheel/pant assembly. We started with the tire. We bought a motorcycle > wheel balancer (simple rod rolling on ball bearing supports type) and > immediately noticed the tire was quite out of round and out of balance.?We > thought "problem solved" and bought a new tire.?This one was round.?We added > weights until it was balanced, and?during taxi testing were surprised to find > there was no improvement.? We then tried different combinations of tire pressure > and bearing torque (within the required limits).?The best was with very low tire > pressure and medium torque, but we still had the problem at?20 mph or more.? > So?then we glassed?a piece of wood (with four layers of medium weight glass) on > to the leg from the bend at the bottom up to where it enters the cowling, hoping > to change the vibration characteristics.?No improvement!? I wonder if a little > lead in the nose or tail of the pant might help (th > e pant is balanced fore and aft right now so doing this would > actually?unbalance it). We are running out of ideas. One of our hangar buddies > was up at OSH watching the RVs taxi by for takeoff and he said many of them had > vibrating nosewheels. We have the new type nosewheel fork. Don't know if there > is a vibrational difference between this type and the old type. Any ideas? > Thanks. LeRoy Johnston and David White RV-6A N176LD Esperanza 200+ hours > flying.???????????????? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Nosewheel vibration update
Date: Aug 30, 2009
Two things to try: 1. Install the MATCO nose wheel axle. Here is the link: http://www.matcomfg.com/AXLEASSEMBLYA24125INCH-idv-3657-1.html This allows for the axle bolt to be fully tighten without too much pre-load on the bearings. This help my 8A nose gear problem. 2. Do the same balance on the main gear that you did on the nose gear. I noted a significant improvement on the nose gear shimmy after I replace my main gear. Carl Froehlich RV-8A (525 hrs) RV-10 (fuselage) From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Orear Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:31 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Nosewheel vibration update This may seem rather rudimentary, but are you sure it is your nosewheel that is shimmying? I thought I had a nosewheel shake as well until a local pilot saw me land while waiting at the hold short line and reported that my left main was the culprit. I suspect uneven tire wear, but balancing out the wheel/tire resulted in some improvement. I plan to replace the main tires/tubes at next conditional inspection. Just a thought. Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A N782P Peshtigo, WI On Aug 30, 2009, at 1:21 PM, jhnstniii(at)aol.com wrote: Listers--Promised I would report on our efforts to stop the vertical vibration of our nosewheel/pant assembly. We started with the tire. We bought a motorcycle wheel balancer (simple rod rolling on ball bearing supports type) and immediately noticed the tire was quite out of round and out of balance. We thought "problem solved" and bought a new tire. This one was round. We added weights until it was balanced, and during taxi testing were surprised to find there was no improvement. We then tried different combinations of tire pressure and bearing torque (within the required limits). The best was with very low tire pressure and medium torque, but we still had the problem at 20 mph or more. So then we glassed a piece of wood (with four layers of medium weight glass) on to the leg from the bend at the bottom up to where it enters the cowling, hoping to change the vibration characteristics. No improvement! I wonde r if a little lead in the nose or tail of the pant might help (the pant is balanced fore and aft right now so doing this would actually unbalance it). We are running out of ideas. One of our hangar buddies was up at OSH watching the RVs taxi by for takeoff and he said many of them had vibrating nosewheels. We have the new type nosewheel fork. Don't know if there is a vibrational difference between this type and the old type. Any ideas? Thanks. LeRoy Johnston and David White RV-6A N176LD Esperanza 200+ hours flying. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nosewheel vibration update
Date: Aug 30, 2009
From: jhnstniii(at)AOL.COM
We balanced the mains and they are round--no improvement. They don't vibrate.? It is very obviously the nose wheel because we've taxied by with one of us as observer at various speeds and with the stick in various positions.? The pant/wheel assembly is going up and down and you can feel it in the cockpit. We have the bearing with the rubber seals that has to be torqued to spec. Will check out the MATCO axle. Thanks.???? -----Original Message----- From: Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> Sent: Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:20 pm Subject: RE: RV-List: Nosewheel vibration update Two things to try: 1.????? Install the MATCO nose wheel axle.? Here is the link: http://www.matcomfg.com/AXLEASSEMBLYA24125INCH-idv-3657-1.html? This allows for the axle bolt to be fully tighten without too much pre-load on the bearings.? This help my 8A nose gear problem. 2.????? Do the same balance on the main gear that you did on the nose gear.? I noted a significant improvement on the nose gear shimmy after I replace my main gear. ? Carl Froehlich RV-8A (525 hrs) RV-10 (fuselage) ? ? From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Orear Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:31 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Nosewheel vibration update ? This may seem rather rudimentary, but are you sure it is your nosewheel that is shimmying? ?I thought I had a nosewheel shake as well until a local pilot saw me land while waiting at the hold short line and reported that my left main was the culprit. ?I suspect uneven tire wear, but balancing out the wheel/tire resulted in some improvement. ?I plan to replace the main tires/tubes at next conditional inspection. ? Just a thought. ? ? ? Regards, ? Jeff Orear RV6A ?N782P Peshtigo, WI ? ? On Aug 30, 2009, at 1:21 PM, jhnstniii(at)aol.com wrote: Listers--Promised I would report on our efforts to stop the vertical vibration of our nosewheel/pant assembly. We started with the tire. We bought a motorcycle wheel balancer (simple rod rolling on ball bearing supports type) and immediately noticed the tire was quite out of round and out of balance.?We thought "problem solved" and bought a new tire.?This one was round.?We added weights until it was balanced, and?during taxi testing were surprised to find there was no improvement.? We then tried different combinations of tire pressure and bearing torque (within the required limits).?The best was with very low tire pressure and medium torque, but we still had the problem at?20 mph or more.? So?then we glassed?a piece of wood (with four layers of medium weight glass) on to the leg from the bend at the bottom up to where it enters the cowling, hoping to change the vibration characteristics.?No improvement!? I wonde r if a little lead in the nose or tail of the pant might help (t he pant is balanced fore and aft right now so doing this would actually?unbalance it). We are running out of ideas. One of our hangar buddies was up at OSH watching the RVs taxi by for takeoff and he said many of them had vibrating nosewheels. We have the new type nosewheel fork. Don't know if there is a vibrational difference between this type and the old type. Any ideas? Thanks. LeRoy Johnston and David White RV-6A N176LD Esperanza 200+ hours flying.???????????????? ? href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ? ? ? ? http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2009
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: Nosewheel vibration update
Also balance the wheel pant. Lead shot can be glassed in to accomplish this, so the wheel pant is balanced about the axle. jhnstniii(at)aol.com wrote: > We balanced the mains and they are round--no improvement. They don't > vibrate. It is very obviously the nose wheel because we've taxied by > with one of us as observer at various speeds and with the stick in > various positions. The pant/wheel assembly is going up and down and you > can feel it in the cockpit. We have the bearing with the rubber seals > that has to be torqued to spec. Will check out the MATCO axle. Thanks. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:20 pm > Subject: RE: RV-List: Nosewheel vibration update > > Two things to try: > 1. Install the MATCO nose wheel axle. Here is the link: > http://www.matcomfg.com/AXLEASSEMBLYA24125INCH-idv-3657-1.html This > allows for the axle bolt to be fully tighten without too much pre-load > on the bearings. This help my 8A nose gear problem. > 2. Do the same balance on the main gear that you did on the nose > gear. I noted a significant improvement on the nose gear shimmy after I > replace my main gear. > > Carl Froehlich > RV-8A (525 hrs) > RV-10 (fuselage) > > > *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > ] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Orear > *Sent:* Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:31 PM > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Nosewheel vibration update > > This may seem rather rudimentary, but are you sure it is your nosewheel > that is shimmying? I thought I had a nosewheel shake as well until a > local pilot saw me land while waiting at the hold short line and > reported that my left main was the culprit. I suspect uneven tire wear, > but balancing out the wheel/tire resulted in some improvement. I plan > to replace the main tires/tubes at next conditional inspection. > > Just a thought. > > > Regards, > > Jeff Orear > RV6A N782P > Peshtigo, WI > > > On Aug 30, 2009, at 1:21 PM, jhnstniii(at)aol.com > wrote: > > > Listers--Promised I would report on our efforts to stop the vertical > vibration of our nosewheel/pant assembly. We started with the tire. We > bought a motorcycle wheel balancer (simple rod rolling on ball bearing > supports type) and immediately noticed the tire was quite out of round > and out of balance. We thought "problem solved" and bought a new > tire. This one was round. We added weights until it was balanced, > and during taxi testing were surprised to find there was no > improvement. We then tried different combinations of tire pressure and > bearing torque (within the required limits). The best was with very low > tire pressure and medium torque, but we still had the problem at 20 mph > or more. So then we glassed a piece of wood (with four layers of medium > weight glass) on to the leg from the bend at the bottom up to where it > enters the cowling, hoping to change the vibration characteristics. No > improvemen t! I wonde r if a little lead in the nose or tail of the > pant might help (the pant is balanced fore and aft right now so doing > this would actually unbalance it). We are running out of ideas. One of > our hangar buddies was up at OSH watching the RVs taxi by for takeoff > and he said many of them had vibrating nosewheels. We have the new type > nosewheel fork. Don't know if there is a vibrational difference between > this type and the old type. Any ideas? Thanks. LeRoy Johnston and David > White RV-6A N176LD Esperanza 200+ hours flying. > > * * > > *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List>* > > *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com http://forums.matronics.com>* > > *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/contribution>* > > * * > > > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > * * > > * > > > * > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Nosewheel vibration update
Date: Aug 30, 2009
Ok. When you get the MATCO axle, set it up so the wheel spins easily - just tight enough so there is no bearing slop. Carl From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jhnstniii(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:24 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Nosewheel vibration update We balanced the mains and they are round--no improvement. They don't vibrate. It is very obviously the nose wheel because we've taxied by with one of us as observer at various speeds and with the stick in various positions. The pant/wheel assembly is going up and down and you can feel it in the cockpit. We have the bearing with the rubber seals that has to be torqued to spec. Will check out the MATCO axle. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> Sent: Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:20 pm Subject: RE: RV-List: Nosewheel vibration update Two things to try: 1. Install the MATCO nose wheel axle. Here is the link: <http://www.matcomfg.com/AXLEASSEMBLYA24125INCH-idv-3657-1.html> http://www.matcomfg.com/AXLEASSEMBLYA24125INCH-idv-3657-1.html This allows for the axle bolt to be fully tighten without too much pre-load on the bearings. This help my 8A nose gear problem. 2. Do the same balance on the main gear that you did on the nose gear. I noted a significant improvement on the nose gear shimmy after I replace my main gear. Carl Froehlich RV-8A (525 hrs) RV-10 (fuselage) From: <mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com> owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [ mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Orear Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:31 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Nosewheel vibration update This may seem rather rudimentary, but are you sure it is your nosewheel that is shimmying? I thought I had a nosewheel shake as well until a local pilot saw me land while waiting at the hold short line and reported that my left main was the culprit. I suspect uneven tire wear, but balancing out the wheel/tire resulted in some improvement. I plan to replace the main tires/tubes at next conditional inspection. Just a thought. Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A N782P Peshtigo, WI On Aug 30, 2009, at 1:21 PM, jhnstniii(at)aol.com wrote: Listers--Promised I would report on our efforts to stop the vertical vibration of our nosewheel/pant assembly. We started with the tire. We bought a motorcycle wheel balancer (simple rod rolling on ball bearing supports type) and immediately noticed the tire was quite out of round and out of balance. We thought "problem solved" and bought a new tire. This one was round. We added weights until it was balanced, and during taxi testing were surprised to find there was no improvement. We then tried different combinations of tire pressure and bearing torque (within the required limits). The best was with very low tire pressure and medium torque, but we still had the problem at 20 mph or more. So then we glassed a piece of wood (with four layers of medium weight glass) on to the leg from the bend at the bottom up to where it enters the cowling, hoping to change the vibration characteristics. No improvemen t! I wonde r if a little lead in the nose or tail of the pant might help (the pant is balanced fore and aft right now so doing this would actually unbalance it). We are running out of ideas. One of our hangar buddies was up at OSH watching the RVs taxi by for takeoff and he said many of them had vibrating nosewheels. We have the new type nosewheel fork. Don't know if there is a vibrational difference between this type and the old type. Any ideas? Thanks. LeRoy Johnston and David White RV-6A N176LD Esperanza 200+ hours flying. href=" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigat or?RV-List href=" http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href=" http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List <http://forums.matronics.com/> http://forums.matronics.com <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2009
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Nosewheel vibration update
OMG... I've heard it all now :-) --- On Sun, 8/30/09, Kelly McMullen wrote: > From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Nosewheel vibration update > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Sunday, August 30, 2009, 6:43 PM > Kelly McMullen > > Also balance the wheel pant. Lead shot can be glassed in to > accomplish this, so the wheel pant is balanced about the > axle. > > jhnstniii(at)aol.com > wrote: > > We balanced the mains and they are round--no > improvement. They don't vibrate. It is very obviously > the nose wheel because we've taxied by with one of us as > observer at various speeds and with the stick in various > positions. The pant/wheel assembly is going up and > down and you can feel it in the cockpit. We have the bearing > with the rubber seals that has to be torqued to spec. Will > check out the MATCO axle. Thanks. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Sent: Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:20 pm > > Subject: RE: RV-List: Nosewheel vibration update > > > > Two things to try: > > 1. Install the MATCO nose wheel > axle. Here is the link: http://www.matcomfg.com/AXLEASSEMBLYA24125INCH-idv-3657-1.html > This allows for the axle bolt to be fully tighten without > too much pre-load on the bearings. This help my 8A > nose gear problem. > > 2. Do the same balance on the main > gear that you did on the nose gear. I noted a > significant improvement on the nose gear shimmy after I > replace my main gear. > > Carl Froehlich > > RV-8A (525 hrs) > > RV-10 (fuselage) > >*From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > ] > *On Behalf Of *Jeff Orear > > *Sent:* Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:31 PM > > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > > > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Nosewheel vibration update > > This may seem rather rudimentary, but are you > sure it is your nosewheel that is shimmying? I thought > I had a nosewheel shake as well until a local pilot saw me > land while waiting at the hold short line and reported that > my left main was the culprit. I suspect uneven tire > wear, but balancing out the wheel/tire resulted in some > improvement. I plan to replace the main tires/tubes at > next conditional inspection. > > Just a thought. Regards, > > Jeff Orear > > RV6A N782P > > Peshtigo, WI > >On Aug 30, 2009, at 1:21 PM, jhnstniii(at)aol.com > > wrote: > > > > > > Listers--Promised I would report on our efforts to > stop the vertical vibration of our nosewheel/pant assembly. > We started with the tire. We bought a motorcycle wheel > balancer (simple rod rolling on ball bearing supports type) > and immediately noticed the tire was quite out of round and > out of balance. We thought "problem solved" and bought a new > tire. This one was round. We added weights until it was > balanced, and during taxi testing were surprised to find > there was no improvement. We then tried different > combinations of tire pressure and bearing torque (within the > required limits). The best was with very low tire pressure > and medium torque, but we still had the problem at 20 mph or > more. So then we glassed a piece of wood (with four > layers of medium weight glass) on to the leg from the bend > at the bottom up to where it enters the cowling, hoping to > change the vibration characteristics. No improvemen t! > I wonde r if a little lead in the nose or tail of the pant > might help (the pant is balanced fore and aft right now so > doing this would actually unbalance it). We are running out > of ideas. One of our hangar buddies was up at OSH watching > the RVs taxi by for takeoff and he said many of them had > vibrating nosewheels. We have the new type nosewheel fork. > Don't know if there is a vibrational difference between this > type and the old type. Any ideas? Thanks. LeRoy Johnston and > David White RV-6A N176LD Esperanza 200+ hours flying. > > > * * > > > > *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List>* > > > > *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com http://forums.matronics.com>* > > > > *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/contribution>* > > > > * * > > > > > > * * > > > > * * > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List* > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > *http://forums.matronics.com * > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > > > ** > > > > * * > > > > * > > > > > > * > > > > * > > > > > > * > > Forum - > FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Nosewheel vibration update
Date: Aug 31, 2009
David, I have not gone back to the beginning of the thread, so don't know what you have tried. However, When I replaced the nose gear on my 98 RV-6A for the beefier version Van offered back almost a decade ago, I notice a strange vibration - it did not feel like a side to side shimmy, but a back and forth type vibration. An observer noted the nose wheel appear to be tucking rearward and then popping forward in small magnitude cycles. That is what it felt like in the cockpit. I placed wood stiffeners around the nose rod and fiberglass them in - immediate this "tucking" sensation stopped. My $0.02 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com <http://www.andersonee.com> http://www.andersonee.com <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ <http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jhnstniii(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:24 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Nosewheel vibration update We balanced the mains and they are round--no improvement. They don't vibrate. It is very obviously the nose wheel because we've taxied by with one of us as observer at various speeds and with the stick in various positions. The pant/wheel assembly is going up and down and you can feel it in the cockpit. We have the bearing with the rubber seals that has to be torqued to spec. Will check out the MATCO axle. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> Sent: Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:20 pm Subject: RE: RV-List: Nosewheel vibration update Two things to try: 1. Install the MATCO nose wheel axle. Here is the link: <http://www.matcomfg.com/AXLEASSEMBLYA24125INCH-idv-3657-1.html> http://www.matcomfg.com/AXLEASSEMBLYA24125INCH-idv-3657-1.html This allows for the axle bolt to be fully tighten without too much pre-load on the bearings. This help my 8A nose gear problem. 2. Do the same balance on the main gear that you did on the nose gear. I noted a significant improvement on the nose gear shimmy after I replace my main gear. Carl Froehlich RV-8A (525 hrs) RV-10 (fuselage) From: <mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com> owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [ mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Orear Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:31 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Nosewheel vibration update This may seem rather rudimentary, but are you sure it is your nosewheel that is shimmying? I thought I had a nosewheel shake as well until a local pilot saw me land while waiting at the hold short line and reported that my left main was the culprit. I suspect uneven tire wear, but balancing out the wheel/tire resulted in some improvement. I plan to replace the main tires/tubes at next conditional inspection. Just a thought. Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A N782P Peshtigo, WI On Aug 30, 2009, at 1:21 PM, jhnstniii(at)aol.com wrote: Listers--Promised I would report on our efforts to stop the vertical vibration of our nosewheel/pant assembly. We started with the tire. We bought a motorcycle wheel balancer (simple rod rolling on ball bearing supports type) and immediately noticed the tire was quite out of round and out of balance. We thought "problem solved" and bought a new tire. This one was round. We added weights until it was balanced, and during taxi testing were surprised to find there was no improvement. We then tried different combinations of tire pressure and bearing torque (within the required limits). The best was with very low tire pressure and medium torque, but we still had the problem at 20 mph or more. So then we glassed a piece of wood (with four layers of medium weight glass) on to the leg from the bend at the bottom up to where it enters the cowling, hoping to change the vibration characteristics. No improvemen t! I wonde r if a little lead in the nose or tail of the pant might help (the pant is balanced fore and aft right now so doing this would actually unbalance it). We are running out of ideas. One of our hangar buddies was up at OSH watching the RVs taxi by for takeoff and he said many of them had vibrating nosewheels. We have the new type nosewheel fork. Don't know if there is a vibrational difference between this type and the old type. Any ideas? Thanks. LeRoy Johnston and David White RV-6A N176LD Esperanza 200+ hours flying. href=" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigat or?RV-List href=" http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href=" http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List <http://forums.matronics.com/> http://forums.matronics.com <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "charlie heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject: Loop problem
Date: Aug 31, 2009
Late yesterday I finally got up courage to try a loop in my 6a, stalledout just as was starting back down. Recovered strait down, no problem. I wasn expecting that as I had succesfully looped cherokee 140's several time back in 68. I entered from a shallow dive at about 170 mph. Only thing I can think of was I didnt make it tight enuff. I remmbered B F Billy demoing one with me in a 6a, and was very quick and high G. Is that the key? Charlie H ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Panama Red" <panamared505(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: Loop problem
Date: Aug 31, 2009
Loop entry is not so much about speed as it is about Gs, I pull 3.5 to 4Gs at entry, going over the top I transition to 0Gs, float over the top to get a round loop and then at the 270 degree of loop back to 3.5-4Gs for pull out. 140 KTS is a good entry speed for my RV6, but I have done them as slow as 125 KTS. Doing acro in an RV, a necessary instrument is the G meter. It is real easy to exceed the 6 G limit on the downside of many maneuvers, control the speed with the G, control the G with speed. Avoid VNE at 6+Gs, no good way out. Bob Late yesterday I finally got up courage to try a loop in my 6a, stalledout just as was starting back down. Recovered strait down, no problem. I wasn expecting that as I had succesfully looped cherokee 140's several time back in 68. I entered from a shallow dive at about 170 mph. Only thing I can think of was I didnt make it tight enuff. I remmbered B F Billy demoing one with me in a 6a, and was very quick and high G. Is that the key? Charlie H ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2009
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Loop problem
I have no experience in looping a 6A, so I may be blowing smoke here. There's a band of airspeed/G's that will get you a good loop. The entry speed needs to be high enough to have the kinetic energy to get you over the top with a little extra airspeed than you just had, but pulling more Gs also scrubs off that kinetic energy. There's a fine balance there that you may get from another aerobatically inclined pilot, or just keep at it on your own. My only suggestion when you're breaking new ground in the flight envelope is to do it high .... very high ...... and, of course, wear a 'chute. Better to carry one and not need it than need it and not have it. Linn charlie heathco wrote: > Late yesterday I finally got up courage to try a loop in my 6a, > stalledout just as was starting back down. Recovered strait down, no > problem. I wasn expecting that as I had succesfully looped cherokee > 140's several time back in 68. I entered from a shallow dive at about > 170 mph. Only thing I can think of was I didnt make it tight enuff. I > remmbered B F Billy demoing one with me in a 6a, and was very quick and > high G. Is that the key? Charlie H > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <bmeyette(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Nosewheel vibration update
Date: Aug 31, 2009
I saw a video somewhere that showed major nosewheel vibrations due the the harmonics of the leg flexing. I believe he had put a camera so it focused on the nose gear and the flex and vibration was considerable. It may have been on u-tube. Seems your idea with the wood would have helped with that, though. _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jhnstniii(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 2:21 PM Subject: RV-List: Nosewheel vibration update Listers--Promised I would report on our efforts to stop the vertical vibration of our nosewheel/pant assembly. We started with the tire. We bought a motorcycle wheel balancer (simple rod rolling on ball bearing supports type) and immediately noticed the tire was quite out of round and out of balance. We thought "problem solved" and bought a new tire. This one was round. We added weights until it was balanced, and during taxi testing were surprised to find there was no improvement. We then tried different combinations of tire pressure and bearing torque (within the required limits). The best was with very low tire pressure and medium torque, but we still had the problem at 20 mph or more. So then we glassed a piece of wood (with four layers of medium weight glass) on to the leg from the bend at the bottom up to where it enters the cowling, hoping to change the vibration characteristics. No improvement! I wonde r if a little lead in the nose or tail of the pant might help (the pant is balanced fore and aft right now so doing this would actually unbalance it). We are running out of ideas. One of our hangar buddies was up at OSH watching the RVs taxi by for takeoff and he said many of them had vibrating nosewheels. We have the new type nosewheel fork. Don't know if there is a vibrational difference between this type and the old type. Any ideas? Thanks. LeRoy Johnston and David White RV-6A N176LD Esperanza 200+ hours flying. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 06:36:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2009
From: rveighta(at)comcast.net
Subject: Nosewheel Vibration
I=C2- had pretty severe nosewheel vibration with my RV8A and managed to c orrecct the problem by gradually tightning down tension on the nose gear nut until it went away. Have you tried that? Walt Shipley ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2009
Subject: Re: Loop problem
From: David Leonard <wdleonard(at)gmail.com>
I agree with Bob except that it it pretty easy to keep it to 3 to 3.5 G's. Going to zero G's over the top is a nice touch, but not really necessary as no one is usually watching anyway. But you do need to ease the pull over the top as your airspeed will be very low. Either way, remember to NOT be at low G's as you come down the back side or speed and G's will build up quickly as you go through the bottom. (i.e. keep the pull going as you come down the back side). I use an entry of anything more than 140 KTS with full power, straight into a 3 G pull easing to less than 1 G over the top, then throttle to idle and build back to 3 G's out the bottom. Dont forget to add rudder on the way up. If you are going to do them with a passenger get good at the low G technique first, because you will most likely be over the aerobatic weight limit. There is no substitute for instruction, but it is really fun to perfect these on you own. Dave Leonard On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 7:03 AM, Panama Red wrote: > Loop entry is not so much about speed as it is about Gs, I pull 3.5 to > 4Gs at entry, going over the top I transition to 0Gs, float over the top to > get a round loop and then at the 270 degree of loop back to 3.5-4Gs for pull > out. 140 KTS is a good entry speed for my RV6, but I have done them as > slow as 125 KTS. > > Doing acro in an RV, a necessary instrument is the G meter. It is real > easy to exceed the 6 G limit on the downside of many maneuvers, control the > speed with the G, control the G with speed. Avoid VNE at 6+Gs, no good > way out. > > Bob > > > Late yesterday I finally got up courage to try a loop in my 6a, stalledout > just as was starting back down. Recovered strait down, no problem. I wasn > expecting that as I had succesfully looped cherokee 140's several time back > in 68. I entered from a shallow dive at about 170 mph. Only thing I can > think of was I didnt make it tight enuff. I remmbered B F Billy demoing one > with me in a 6a, and was very quick and high G. Is that the key? Charlie H > > * > > * > > -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BELTEDAIR(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 31, 2009
Subject: Re: Nosewheel vibration update
We had the same problem and converted to a 6 still the problem, no one could give us the heat treat specs. sort of dodge around. Our solution is quite easy, determine where you would install the wood stiffiners. Order aluminum tubing from Spruce that has the ID of the tube that closely matches your gear OD. Anneal the aluminum tube, slide it over the gear leg. Form it into a streamline shape, determine where it will align with your gear fairings. Mix MetlWeld also from Spruce and pour it into the aluminum (now streamlined) tube. Turn it over a few times to make sure you have epoxy all the way in contact with the main strut. Align it to where you want it, install a fiberglass arrow shaft in the void, pour the rest with MetlWeld tape off the bottom so it will not run out. Let it cure, if on the mains it was recommend to us by Van's to have the weight off of the gear. We have had no problem since and it is quite light and strong. In a message dated 8/31/2009 8:11:14 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bmeyette(at)gmail.com writes: I saw a video somewhere that showed major nosewheel vibrations due the the harmonics of the leg flexing. I believe he had put a camera so it focused on the nose gear and the flex and vibration was considerable. It may have been on u-tube. Seems your idea with the wood would have helped with that, though. ____________________________________ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jhnstniii(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 2:21 PM Subject: RV-List: Nosewheel vibration update Listers--Promised I would report on our efforts to stop the vertical vibration of our nosewheel/pant assembly. We started with the tire. We bought a motorcycle wheel balancer (simple rod rolling on ball bearing supports type) and immediately noticed the tire was quite out of round and out of bal We thought "problem solved" and bought a new tire. This one was round. We added weights until it was balanced, and during taxi testing were surprised to find there was no improvement. We then tried different combinations of tire pressure and bearing torque (within the required limits). The best was with very low tire pressure and medium torque, but we still had the problem at 20 mph or more. So then we glassed a piece of wood (with four layers of medium weight glass) on to the leg from the bend at the bottom up to where it enters the cowling, hoping to change the vibration characteristics. No improvement! I wonde r if a little lead in the nose or tail of the pant might help (the pant is balanced fore and aft right now so doing this would actually unbalance it). We are running out of ideas. One of our hangar buddies was up at OSH watching the RVs taxi by for takeoff and he said many of them had vibrating nosewheels. We have the new type nosewheel fork. Don't know if there is a vibrational difference between this type and the old type. Any ideas? Thanks. LeRoy Johnston and David White RV-6A N176LD Esperanza 200+ hours flying. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c Checked 270.13.71/2334 - Release Date: 08/30/09 06:36:00 (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Danielson <johnd(at)wlcwyo.com>
Date: Aug 31, 2009
Subject: Loop problem
Get a G meter before trying any Acro. 3.5 to 4 G's on entry is good with an entry speed of 160 or 170mph. I float over the top with 0G's and pull 3 to 3.5 G's coming out on the bott om end. Usually the problem is that your worried about pulling to many G's on entry . This is why you need a G meter. And your again worried about the g's on t he pull out. ________________________________ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matro nics.com] On Behalf Of charlie heathco Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 6:19 AM Subject: RV-List: Loop problem Late yesterday I finally got up courage to try a loop in my 6a, stalledout just as was starting back down. Recovered strait down, no problem. I wasn e xpecting that as I had succesfully looped cherokee 140's several time back in 68. I entered from a shallow dive at about 170 mph. Only thing I can thi nk of was I didnt make it tight enuff. I remmbered B F Billy demoing one wi th me in a 6a, and was very quick and high G. Is that the key? Charlie H ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2009
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Loop problem
Linn Walters wrote: My only suggestion when you're breaking new ground > in the flight envelope is to do it high .... very high ...... and, of > course, wear a 'chute. Better to carry one and not need it than need it > and not have it. > Linn Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........ :-( Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2009
From: scott bilinski <rv8a2001(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Loop problem
>From what I have read tells me you are not familiar with performing aerobat ics and-I dont mean that as a put down. Get some basic training it will b e the best money spent. Scott RV-8a --- On Mon, 8/31/09, Linn Walters wrote: From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 7:37 AM I have no experience in looping a 6A, so I may be blowing smoke here. There 's a band of airspeed/G's that will get you a good loop.- The entry speed needs to be high enough to have the kinetic energy to get you over the top with a little extra airspeed than you just had, but pulling more Gs also s crubs off that kinetic energy.- There's a fine balance there that you may get from another aerobatically inclined pilot, or just keep at it on your own.- My only suggestion when you're breaking new ground in the flight en velope is to do it high .... very high ...... and, of course, wear a 'chute .- Better to carry one and not need it than need it and not have it. Linn charlie heathco wrote: > Late yesterday I finally got up courage to try a loop in my 6a, stalledou t just as was starting back down. Recovered strait down, no problem. I wasn expecting that as I had succesfully looped cherokee 140's several time bac k in 68. I entered from a shallow dive at about 170 mph. Only thing I can t hink of was I didnt make it tight enuff. I remmbered B F Billy demoing one with me in a 6a, and was very quick and high G. Is that the key? Charlie H le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2009
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Loop problem
Linn Walters wrote: > Sam Buchanan wrote: >> >> Linn Walters wrote: >> >> My only suggestion when you're breaking new ground >>> in the flight envelope is to do it high .... very high ...... and, of course, wear a 'chute. Better to carry one and not need it than need it and not have it. >>> Linn >> >> >> Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........ :-( > Why is that? Inquiring minds want to know! > Linn Linn, There are two canopy designs on the side-by-side RVs: tip up; Originally designed with a quick release mechanism that *may* have worked properly when the canopies were built without hydraulic assist (guess in an emergency you wouldn't worry about whether or not it would take off your head or the vertical stab as it departed the plane....). But since mid-90's, the hydraulic struts have been shipped with finish kits and would almost certainly prevent the canopy from detaching as designed. slider; can be opened in flight, however....... The airloads on both designs make it nearly impossible to get either canopy open more than a few inches in flight. The tip up can be pushed up with difficulty maybe 6-12", the slider can be pushed back less than 12". In either case a pilot would find it practically impossible to exit the aircraft. If a builder was serious about aerobatics quick-release pins might be incorporated into the slider installation. Some have done this with the RV-8. As far as I know, there are *no* documented cases of someone bailing out of a side-by-side RV with either canopy. Matter of fact, there are no documented cases of anyone even attempting to jettison the tip up canopy. A parachute in a RV-6/6A might make you feel safer until you actually needed to use it. ;-) Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Panama Red" <panamared505(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: Loop problem
Date: Aug 31, 2009
> Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........ :-( > > Sam Buchanan I have often thought this about my RV6. Opening the canopy in normal flight beyond about 2 inches is next to impossible. I mentioned this to a retired USAF F-4 Driver and his response was "It depends upon how motivated you are!" But the caution about having plenty of altitude is good. It will give you more time to try and regain control even if you don't think you can bail out. The IAC requires parachutes in competiton, so I use one regardless of what I think its usefullness might be. And who knows, if I loose control in an inverted flat spin and can't regain control, maybe I will be able to open the canopy. Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Aug 31, 2009
From: jvanlaak(at)aol.com
Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the practicality of?opening the canopy when the thread began with an admission of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright stupid act).? Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught aerobatics in general, let alone in uncertified airplanes?? Haven't we lost enough friends to such shenanegans? I don't know?how many are?keeping track, but this has been a bad year for RV accidents.? I?get to?see the FAA reaction and it is becoming a source of concern to me.? I have owned 5 RVs in my life (2 RV-3's, 2 RV-6's, and an RV-4) and loved them all.? But self taught aerobatics, buzz jobs,?and other completely avoidable accidents do all of?sport aviation a big disservice. -----Original Message----- From: Panama Red <panamared505(at)brier.net> Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:26 pm Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem ? > Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........ :-(? >? > Sam Buchanan? ? I have often thought this about my RV6. Opening the canopy in normal flight beyond about 2 inches is next to impossible. I mentioned this to a retired USAF F-4 Driver and his response was "It depends upon how motivated you are!"? ? But the caution about having plenty of altitude is good. It will give you more time to try and regain control even if you don't think you can bail out. The IAC requires parachutes in competiton, so I use one regardless of what I think its usefullness might be. And who knows, if I loose control in an inverted flat spin and can't regain control, maybe I will be able to open the canopy.? ? Bob? RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" ? ? ? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2009
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: emergency extrication
My apologies to the list, and thank you Sam, for the education! Something to think about. Exiting my Pitts (no, I've never done it) is probably going to be really tough due to air loads ..... that I never thought about. It's hard enough to get in/out sitting in front of the hangar!!! I suppose you could maneuver the airplane to decrease those wind loads .... but if you can maneuver the airplane .... why leave it. Well, if it's on fire .... Linn Sam Buchanan wrote: > > > > Linn Walters wrote: > > Sam Buchanan wrote: > >> > >> Linn Walters wrote: > > >> > >> My only suggestion when you're breaking new ground > >>> in the flight envelope is to do it high .... very high ...... and, > of course, wear a 'chute. Better to carry one and not need it than need > it and not have it. > >>> Linn > >> > >> > >> Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........ > :-( > > Why is that? Inquiring minds want to know! > > Linn > > > > Linn, > > There are two canopy designs on the side-by-side RVs: > > tip up; Originally designed with a quick release mechanism that *may* > have worked properly when the canopies were built without hydraulic > assist (guess in an emergency you wouldn't worry about whether or not it > would take off your head or the vertical stab as it departed the > plane....). But since mid-90's, the hydraulic struts have been shipped > with finish kits and would almost certainly prevent the canopy from > detaching as designed. > > slider; can be opened in flight, however....... > > The airloads on both designs make it nearly impossible to get either > canopy open more than a few inches in flight. The tip up can be pushed > up with difficulty maybe 6-12", the slider can be pushed back less than > 12". In either case a pilot would find it practically impossible to exit > the aircraft. If a builder was serious about aerobatics quick-release > pins might be incorporated into the slider installation. Some have done > this with the RV-8. > > As far as I know, there are *no* documented cases of someone bailing out > of a side-by-side RV with either canopy. Matter of fact, there are no > documented cases of anyone even attempting to jettison the tip up canopy. > > A parachute in a RV-6/6A might make you feel safer until you actually > needed to use it. ;-) > > Sam Buchanan > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2009
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
jvanlaak(at)aol.com wrote: > Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the > practicality of?opening the canopy when the thread began with an > admission of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright > stupid act).? Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught > aerobatics in general, let alone in uncertified airplanes?? Haven't > we lost enough friends to such shenanegans? I was hoping the not-so-subtle underlying theme of my post about exiting an RV would be the folly of self-taught aerobatics............ Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2009
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: email address
Linn Walters wrote: > That address shouldn't have bounced. Would you send me the bounce email??? > pitts_pilot has the underscore. didn't realize how that would look as > an email link!!! > Linn > Sorry listers, I've got to send this via the list since I can't send Linn a message about his blocked email address because his email address is........blocked! Sam Buchanan ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- (reason: 521-216.180.54.11 is blocked domain (*)) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Aug 31, 2009
Show me in the regs where looping a Cherokee 140 is illegal. While I agree it may not be smart=2C it is not illegal. Mike Robertson Das Fed Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. Date: Mon=2C 31 Aug 2009 17:14:11 -0400 From: jvanlaak(at)aol.com Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the pract icality of opening the canopy when the thread began with an admission of lo oping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright stupid act). Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught aerobatics in general=2C let alone in uncertified airplanes? Haven't we lost enough friends to such sh enanegans? I don't know how many are keeping track=2C but this has been a bad year for RV accidents. I get to see the FAA reaction and it is becoming a source o f concern to me. I have owned 5 RVs in my life (2 RV-3's=2C 2 RV-6's=2C an d an RV-4) and loved them all. But self taught aerobatics=2C buzz jobs=2C and other completely avoidable accidents do all of sport aviation a big dis service. -----Original Message----- From: Panama Red <panamared505(at)brier.net> Sent: Mon=2C Aug 31=2C 2009 4:26 pm Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem > Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........ :-( > > Sam Buchanan I have often thought this about my RV6. Opening the canopy in normal flight beyond about 2 inches is next to impossible. I mentioned this to a retired USAF F-4 Driver and his response was "It depends upon how motivated you ar e!" But the caution about having plenty of altitude is good. It will give you m ore time to try and regain control even if you don't think you can bail out . The IAC requires parachutes in competiton=2C so I use one regardless of w hat I think its usefullness might be. And who knows=2C if I loose control i n an inverted flat spin and can't regain control=2C maybe I will be able to open the canopy. Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" _________________________________________________________________ With Windows Live=2C you can organize=2C edit=2C and share your photos. http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2009
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
No one like to see anyone hurt or die in any airplane let alone RV's, having said that what is your concern about the FAAs reaction. If you take total hours flown per year in RV's compared to other aircraft the accident rate pers hours flown is not to bad. Of course any at all is bad, but I am basing this on your comment. jvanlaak(at)aol.com wrote: > Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the > practicality of opening the canopy when the thread began with an > admission of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright > stupid act). Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught > aerobatics in general, let alone in uncertified airplanes? Haven't we > lost enough friends to such shenanegans? > > I don't know how many are keeping track, but this has been a bad year > for RV accidents. I get to see the FAA reaction and it is becoming a > source of concern to me. I have owned 5 RVs in my life (2 RV-3's, 2 > RV-6's, and an RV-4) and loved them all. But self taught aerobatics, > buzz jobs, and other completely avoidable accidents do all of sport > aviation a big disservice. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Panama Red <panamared505(at)brier.net> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:26 pm > Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem > > > > > > Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........ > :-( > > > > Sam Buchanan > > I have often thought this about my RV6. Opening the canopy in normal > flight beyond about 2 inches is next to impossible. I mentioned this > to a retired USAF F-4 Driver and his response was "It depends upon how > motivated you are!" > > But the caution about having plenty of altitude is good. It will give > you more time to try and regain control even if you don't think you > can bail out. The IAC requires parachutes in competiton, so I use one > regardless of what I think its usefullness might be. And who knows, if > I loose control in an inverted flat spin and can't regain control, > maybe I will be able to open the canopy. > > Bob > RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" > > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6ator(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 31, 2009
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
HEY DICKWEED, A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER, AEROBATIC MANUEVERS SHOULD BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS, LAST TIME I CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT HEY, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT, BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF ASSHOLES LIKE YOU HAVE CRASHED AND BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS ONBOARD> In a message dated 8/31/2009 6:48:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrobert569(at)hotmail.com writes: Show me in the regs where looping a Cherokee 140 is illegal. While I agree it may not be smart, it is not illegal. Mike Robertson Das Fed ____________________________________ Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:14:11 -0400 From: jvanlaak(at)aol.com Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the practicality of opening the canopy when the thread began with an admission of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright stupid act). Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught aerobatics in general, let alone in uncertified airplanes? Haven't we lost enough friends to such shenanegans? I don't know how many are keeping track, but this has been a bad year for RV accidents. I get to see the FAA reaction and it is becoming a source of concern to me. I have owned 5 RVs in my life (2 RV-3's, 2 RV-6's, and an RV-4) and loved them all. But self taught aerobatics, buzz jobs, and other completely avoidable accidents do all of sport aviation a big disservice. -----Original Message----- From: Panama Red <panamared505(at)brier.net> Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:26 pm Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --> RV-List message posted by: "Panama Red" <_panamared505(at)brier.net_ (mailto:panamared505(at)brier.net) > > Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........ :-( > > Sam Buchanan I have often thought this about my RV6. Opening the canopy in normal flight beyond about 2 inches is next to impossible. I mentioned this to a retired USAF F-4 Driver and his response was "It depends upon how motivated you are!" But the caution about having plenty of altitude is good. It will give you more time to try and regain control even if you don't think you can bail out. The IAC requires parachutes in competiton, so I use one regardless of what I think its usefullness might be. And who knows, if I loose control in an inverted flat spin and can't regain control, maybe I will be able to open the canopy. Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution ____________________________________ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. _Click here._ (http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2009
From: rveighta(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Jeez, here we go again, off to the races!=C2- ----- Original Message ----- From: RV6ator(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 7:10:43 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. HEY DICKWEED, A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER, AEROBATIC MANUEVERS=C2-SHO ULD BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT=C2-IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS, LAST TI ME=C2-I=C2-CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT HEY, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT, BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF ASSHOLES LIKE Y OU HAVE CRASHED AND BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS ONBOARD>=C2- In a message dated 8/31/2009 6:48:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrobert569 @hotmail.com writes: Show me in the regs where looping a Cherokee 140 is=C2-illegal.=C2- Whi le I agree it may not be smart, it is not illegal. =C2- Mike Robertson Das Fed =C2- Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:14:11 -0400 From: jvanlaak(at)aol.com Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the pract icality of=C2-opening the canopy when the thread began with an admission of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright stupid act).=C2 - Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught aerobatics in gen eral, let alone in uncertified airplanes?=C2- Haven't we lost enough frie nds to such shenanegans? I don't know=C2-how many are=C2-keeping track, but this has been a bad year for RV accidents.=C2- I=C2-get to=C2-see the FAA reaction and it is becoming a source of concern to me.=C2- I have owned 5 RVs in my life (2 RV-3's, 2 RV-6's, and an RV-4) and loved them all.=C2- But self taugh t aerobatics, buzz jobs,=C2-and other completely avoidable accidents do a ll of=C2-sport aviation a big disservice. -----Original Message----- From: Panama Red <panamared505(at)brier.net> Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:26 pm Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem - =C2- > Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........ :-( =C2- >=C2- > Sam Buchanan=C2- =C2- I have often thought this about my RV6. Opening the canopy in normal flight beyond about 2 inches is next to impossible. I mentioned this to a retired USAF F-4 Driver and his response was "It depends upon how motivated you ar e!"=C2- =C2- But the caution about having plenty of altitude is good. It will give you m ore time to try and regain control even if you don't think you can bail out . The IAC requires parachutes in competiton, so I use one regardless of wha t I think its usefullness might be. And who knows, if I loose control in an inverted flat spin and can't regain control, maybe I will be able to open the canopy.=C2- =C2- Bob=C2- RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" =C2- =C2- =C2- p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contrib ution With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click her e. ======================== =========== ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Na vigator?RV-List =================== ================ ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ========= = tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== == ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2009
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
RV6ator(at)aol.com wrote: > HEY DICKWEED, A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER, AEROBATIC MANUEVERS SHOULD > BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS, LAST TIME I > CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT HEY, KNOCK YOURSELF > OUT, BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF ASSHOLES LIKE YOU HAVE CRASHED AND > BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS ONBOARD> There may be some members of this list who are not acquainted with Mike Robertson. Mike is an employee of the FAA and has demonstrated many times on this list his knowledge of the FARS. Also, using all caps in an email message is generally frowned upon in the internet community and often calls into question the credibility of the poster. Now back to your scheduled programming..... ;-) Sam Buchanan ====================== > > In a message dated 8/31/2009 6:48:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > mrobert569(at)hotmail.com writes: > > Show me in the regs where looping a Cherokee 140 is illegal. While I > agree it may not be smart, it is not illegal. > > Mike Robertson > Das Fed > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don" <dsvs(at)ca.rr.com>
Subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Aug 31, 2009
Sam beat me to the punch. I will add another comment. Maybe you should just go find another list. Don Van Santen RV&7 Flying From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV6ator(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:11 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. HEY DICKWEED, A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER, AEROBATIC MANUEVERS SHOULD BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS, LAST TIME I CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT HEY, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT, BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF ASSHOLES LIKE YOU HAVE CRASHED AND BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS ONBOARD> In a message dated 8/31/2009 6:48:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrobert569(at)hotmail.com writes: Show me in the regs where looping a Cherokee 140 is illegal. While I agree it may not be smart, it is not illegal. Mike Robertson Das Fed _____ Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:14:11 -0400 From: jvanlaak(at)aol.com Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the practicality of opening the canopy when the thread began with an admission of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright stupid act). Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught aerobatics in general, let alone in uncertified airplanes? Haven't we lost enough friends to such shenanegans? I don't know how many are keeping track, but this has been a bad year for RV accidents. I get to see the FAA reaction and it is becoming a source of concern to me. I have owned 5 RVs in my life (2 RV-3's, 2 RV-6's, and an RV-4) and loved them all. But self taught aerobatics, buzz jobs, and other completely avoidable accidents do all of sport aviation a big disservice. -----Original Message----- From: Panama Red <panamared505(at)brier.net> Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:26 pm Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem > Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........ :-( > > Sam Buchanan I have often thought this about my RV6. Opening the canopy in normal flight beyond about 2 inches is next to impossible. I mentioned this to a retired USAF F-4 Driver and his response was "It depends upon how motivated you are!" But the caution about having plenty of altitude is good. It will give you more time to try and regain control even if you don't think you can bail out. The IAC requires parachutes in competiton, so I use one regardless of what I think its usefullness might be. And who knows, if I loose control in an inverted flat spin and can't regain control, maybe I will be able to open the canopy. Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution _____ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. <http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery> =================================== ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navig ator?RV-List =================================== ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com =================================== tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== _____ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Aug 31, 2009
I predict you will regret both the remarks and the attitude. Just a prediction. Terry From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV6ator(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:11 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. HEY DICKWEED, A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER, AEROBATIC MANUEVERS SHOULD BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS, LAST TIME I CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT HEY, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT, BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF ASSHOLES LIKE YOU HAVE CRASHED AND BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS ONBOARD> In a message dated 8/31/2009 6:48:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrobert569(at)hotmail.com writes: Show me in the regs where looping a Cherokee 140 is illegal. While I agree it may not be smart, it is not illegal. Mike Robertson Das Fed _____ Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:14:11 -0400 From: jvanlaak(at)aol.com Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the practicality of opening the canopy when the thread began with an admission of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright stupid act). Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught aerobatics in general, let alone in uncertified airplanes? Haven't we lost enough friends to such shenanegans? I don't know how many are keeping track, but this has been a bad year for RV accidents. I get to see the FAA reaction and it is becoming a source of concern to me. I have owned 5 RVs in my life (2 RV-3's, 2 RV-6's, and an RV-4) and loved them all. But self taught aerobatics, buzz jobs, and other completely avoidable accidents do all of sport aviation a big disservice. -----Original Message----- From: Panama Red <panamared505(at)brier.net> Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:26 pm Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem > Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........ :-( > > Sam Buchanan I have often thought this about my RV6. Opening the canopy in normal flight beyond about 2 inches is next to impossible. I mentioned this to a retired USAF F-4 Driver and his response was "It depends upon how motivated you are!" But the caution about having plenty of altitude is good. It will give you more time to try and regain control even if you don't think you can bail out. The IAC requires parachutes in competiton, so I use one regardless of what I think its usefullness might be. And who knows, if I loose control in an inverted flat spin and can't regain control, maybe I will be able to open the canopy. Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution _____ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. <http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery> =================================== ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navig ator?RV-List =================================== ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com =================================== tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== _____ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <bmeyette(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Loop problem
Date: Aug 31, 2009
For that reason and because my tipup quick release bar was in the way of my avionics, I used AN bolts instead of the sliding pins to hold my canopy hinges. Brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:16 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem Linn Walters wrote: > Sam Buchanan wrote: Linn Walters wrote: >> >> My only suggestion when you're breaking new ground >>> in the flight envelope is to do it high .... very high ...... and, of course, wear a 'chute. Better to carry one and not need it than need it and not have it. >>> Linn >> >> >> Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........ :-( > Why is that? Inquiring minds want to know! > Linn Linn, There are two canopy designs on the side-by-side RVs: tip up; Originally designed with a quick release mechanism that *may* have worked properly when the canopies were built without hydraulic assist (guess in an emergency you wouldn't worry about whether or not it would take off your head or the vertical stab as it departed the plane....). But since mid-90's, the hydraulic struts have been shipped with finish kits and would almost certainly prevent the canopy from detaching as designed. slider; can be opened in flight, however....... The airloads on both designs make it nearly impossible to get either canopy open more than a few inches in flight. The tip up can be pushed up with difficulty maybe 6-12", the slider can be pushed back less than 12". In either case a pilot would find it practically impossible to exit the aircraft. If a builder was serious about aerobatics quick-release pins might be incorporated into the slider installation. Some have done this with the RV-8. As far as I know, there are *no* documented cases of someone bailing out of a side-by-side RV with either canopy. Matter of fact, there are no documented cases of anyone even attempting to jettison the tip up canopy. A parachute in a RV-6/6A might make you feel safer until you actually needed to use it. ;-) Sam Buchanan Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 05:50:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <bmeyette(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Aug 31, 2009
i think there are much more rational and polite ways to express yourself. _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV6ator(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 7:11 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. HEY DICKWEED, A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER, AEROBATIC MANUEVERS SHOULD BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS, LAST TIME I CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT HEY, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT, BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF ASSHOLES LIKE YOU HAVE CRASHED AND BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS ONBOARD> In a message dated 8/31/2009 6:48:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrobert569(at)hotmail.com writes: Show me in the regs where looping a Cherokee 140 is illegal. While I agree it may not be smart, it is not illegal. Mike Robertson Das Fed _____ Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:14:11 -0400 From: jvanlaak(at)aol.com Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the practicality of opening the canopy when the thread began with an admission of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright stupid act). Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught aerobatics in general, let alone in uncertified airplanes? Haven't we lost enough friends to such shenanegans? I don't know how many are keeping track, but this has been a bad year for RV accidents. I get to see the FAA reaction and it is becoming a source of concern to me. I have owned 5 RVs in my life (2 RV-3's, 2 RV-6's, and an RV-4) and loved them all. But self taught aerobatics, buzz jobs, and other completely avoidable accidents do all of sport aviation a big disservice. -----Original Message----- From: Panama Red <panamared505(at)brier.net> Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:26 pm Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem > Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........ :-( > > Sam Buchanan I have often thought this about my RV6. Opening the canopy in normal flight beyond about 2 inches is next to impossible. I mentioned this to a retired USAF F-4 Driver and his response was "It depends upon how motivated you are!" But the caution about having plenty of altitude is good. It will give you more time to try and regain control even if you don't think you can bail out. The IAC requires parachutes in competiton, so I use one regardless of what I think its usefullness might be. And who knows, if I loose control in an inverted flat spin and can't regain control, maybe I will be able to open the canopy. Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution _____ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click <http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery> here. =================================== ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navig ator?RV-List =================================== ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com =================================== tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== _____ 05:50:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV Forum KFZY - Oswego CO,NY Sept 11-12-13 weekend
Date: Aug 31, 2009
From: rv6160hp(at)aol.com
EAA 486 at: http://www.eaachapter486.com/ RV Forum KFZY - Oswego CO,NY Sept 11-12-13 weekend. I assume ya'll have heard and are informed.. but in case you haven't heard of this: Highlights to include Mike Seager giving lessons in the Factory RV and the NE RV12 rep scheduled... Read more at: http://www.eaachapter486.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=98&Itemid=109 http://www.eaachapter486.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=113&Itemid=110 http://www.eaachapter486.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=114&Itemid=113 Hope you can make it, pray for VFR and lots of planes! Regards David McManmon RV6 builder flying-pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <bmeyette(at)gmail.com>
Subject: RV Forum KFZY - Oswego CO,NY Sept 11-12-13 weekend
Date: Aug 31, 2009
this is a nice event - I've been to it a couple times brian _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rv6160hp(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:11 PM Subject: RV-List: RV Forum KFZY - Oswego CO,NY Sept 11-12-13 weekend EAA 486 at: http://www.eaachapter486.com/ RV Forum KFZY - Oswego CO,NY Sept 11-12-13 weekend. I assume ya'll have heard and are informed.. but in case you haven't heard of this: Highlights to include Mike Seager giving lessons in the Factory RV and the NE RV12 rep scheduled... Read more at: http://www.eaachapter486.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=98 &Itemid=109 http://www.eaachapter486.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11 3&Itemid=110 http://www.eaachapter486.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11 4&Itemid=113 Hope you can make it, pray for VFR and lots of planes! Regards David McManmon RV6 builder flying-pilot. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 05:50:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2009
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
From: Tim Randles <tim.randles(at)gmail.com>
Revoke posting privileges, delete account, kthx. On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 7:10 PM, wrote: > HEY DICKWEED, A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER, AEROBATIC MANUEVERS SHOULD > BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS, LAST > TIME I CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT HEY, KNOCK > YOURSELF OUT, BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF ASSHOLES LIKE YOU HAVE > CRASHED AND BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS ONBOARD> > In a message dated 8/31/2009 6:48:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > mrobert569(at)hotmail.com writes: > > Show me in the regs where looping a Cherokee 140 is illegal. While I agree > it may not be smart, it is not illegal. > > Mike Robertson > Das Fed > > ------------------------------ > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. > Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:14:11 -0400 > From: jvanlaak(at)aol.com > > Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the > practicality of opening the canopy when the thread began with an admission > of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright stupid act). Why > has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught aerobatics in general, let > alone in uncertified airplanes? Haven't we lost enough friends to such > shenanegans? > > I don't know how many are keeping track, but this has been a bad year for > RV accidents. I get to see the FAA reaction and it is becoming a source of > concern to me. I have owned 5 RVs in my life (2 RV-3's, 2 RV-6's, and an > RV-4) and loved them all. But self taught aerobatics, buzz jobs, and other > completely avoidable accidents do all of sport aviation a big disservice. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Panama Red <panamared505(at)brier.net> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:26 pm > Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem > > > > Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........ :-( > > > > Sam Buchanan > > I have often thought this about my RV6. Opening the canopy in normal flight > beyond about 2 inches is next to impossible. I mentioned this to a retired > USAF F-4 Driver and his response was "It depends upon how motivated you > are!" > > But the caution about having plenty of altitude is good. It will give you > more time to try and regain control even if you don't think you can bail > out. The IAC requires parachutes in competiton, so I use one regardless of > what I think its usefullness might be. And who knows, if I loose control in > an inverted flat spin and can't regain control, maybe I will be able to open > the canopy. > > Bob > RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" > > > * > > p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution > * > > > ------------------------------ > With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click > here. <http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery> > > * > > =================================== > ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > ====================================ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > * > > > ------------------------------ > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Steube" <at6c(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Aug 31, 2009
When you speak with apparent authority the wrath of the list is your problem. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 6:42 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. RV6ator(at)aol.com wrote: > HEY DICKWEED, A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER, AEROBATIC MANUEVERS SHOULD > BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS, LAST TIME I > CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT HEY, KNOCK YOURSELF > OUT, BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF ASSHOLES LIKE YOU HAVE CRASHED AND > BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS ONBOARD> There may be some members of this list who are not acquainted with Mike Robertson. Mike is an employee of the FAA and has demonstrated many times on this list his knowledge of the FARS. Also, using all caps in an email message is generally frowned upon in the internet community and often calls into question the credibility of the poster. Now back to your scheduled programming..... ;-) Sam Buchanan ====================== > > In a message dated 8/31/2009 6:48:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > mrobert569(at)hotmail.com writes: > > Show me in the regs where looping a Cherokee 140 is illegal. While I > agree it may not be smart, it is not illegal. > > Mike Robertson > Das Fed > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2009
From: steve <steve282s(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fitting The Spinner To A Hartzell
Hi Matt, 1/4"- ain't bad.- Go fly.- It's all good. --- On Sun, 8/30/09, Matt Dralle wrote: From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> Subject: RV-List: Fitting The Spinner To A Hartzell Date: Sunday, August 30, 2009, 11:35 AM Listers, Hartzell recommends a minimum .1" clearance around the prop blade for the s pinner.- I did that exactly, but the prop would still bang on the spinner at full pitch.- I had to hog out to .25" to keep the clearance at .1" at full pitch.- It looked stupid having such a large gap in one area only s o I evened it up to .25" all the way around.- But now it kind of looks li ke I made the holes too big.- I just can't recall seeing other installati ons to know if my .25" is "too much".- Anyone have any pics or thoughts o n the clearance using late-model Van's CS spinner and a Hartzell, particula rly the 72" paddle blades I've got? Thanks! Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2009
Subject: Re: emergency extrication
From: David Leonard <wdleonard(at)gmail.com>
Dont forget that if you are trying to get out of the aircraft, it is probably not in normal forward flight. It may be the case that falling condition alters the aerodynamic forces such that opening either canopy may be possible. The aft CG stall in particular comes to mind. Point is... at least give it a try - Oh, and that parachute may have been worth while after all. (Though I admit that I don't wear one.) -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 2:27 PM, Linn Walters wrote: > > My apologies to the list, and thank you Sam, for the education! > Something to think about. Exiting my Pitts (no, I've never done it) is > probably going to be really tough due to air loads ..... that I never > thought about. It's hard enough to get in/out sitting in front of the > hangar!!! I suppose you could maneuver the airplane to decrease those wind > loads .... but if you can maneuver the airplane .... why leave it. Well, if > it's on fire .... > Linn > > Sam Buchanan wrote: > >> >> >> >> Linn Walters wrote: >> > Sam Buchanan wrote: >> >> >> >> Linn Walters wrote: >> pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> >> >> >> >> My only suggestion when you're breaking new ground >> >>> in the flight envelope is to do it high .... very high ...... and, of >> course, wear a 'chute. Better to carry one and not need it than need it and >> not have it. >> >>> Linn >> >> >> >> >> >> Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........ >> :-( >> > Why is that? Inquiring minds want to know! >> > Linn >> >> >> >> Linn, >> >> There are two canopy designs on the side-by-side RVs: >> >> tip up; Originally designed with a quick release mechanism that *may* have >> worked properly when the canopies were built without hydraulic assist (guess >> in an emergency you wouldn't worry about whether or not it would take off >> your head or the vertical stab as it departed the plane....). But since >> mid-90's, the hydraulic struts have been shipped with finish kits and would >> almost certainly prevent the canopy from detaching as designed. >> >> slider; can be opened in flight, however....... >> >> The airloads on both designs make it nearly impossible to get either >> canopy open more than a few inches in flight. The tip up can be pushed up >> with difficulty maybe 6-12", the slider can be pushed back less than 12". In >> either case a pilot would find it practically impossible to exit the >> aircraft. If a builder was serious about aerobatics quick-release pins might >> be incorporated into the slider installation. Some have done this with the >> RV-8. >> >> As far as I know, there are *no* documented cases of someone bailing out >> of a side-by-side RV with either canopy. Matter of fact, there are no >> documented cases of anyone even attempting to jettison the tip up canopy. >> >> A parachute in a RV-6/6A might make you feel safer until you actually >> needed to use it. ;-) >> >> Sam Buchanan >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2009
From: Mike Divan <n343fd(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Yep I am sure someone learned something from that post ... like ... O ... I don't know ... how about ... you have bad people skills at best and you are a jerk (to put it mildly) at worst. Mike Divan N64GH - RV6 (flying) http://n64gh.blogspot.com/ FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS! Remember it is the Solder, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Cost Guard that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"! ________________________________ From: "RV6ator(at)aol.com" <RV6ator(at)aol.com> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:10:43 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. HEY DICKWEED, A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER, AEROBATIC MANUEVERS SHOULD BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS, LAST TIME I CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT HEY, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT, BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF ASSHOLES LIKE YOU HAVE CRASHED AND BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS ONBOARD> In a message dated 8/31/2009 6:48:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrobert569(at)hotmail.com writes: Show me > in the regs where looping a Cherokee 140 is illegal. While I agree > it may not be smart, it is not illegal. > >Mike Robertson >Das > Fed > >________________________________ > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest > of the story. >Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:14:11 -0400 >From: > jvanlaak(at)aol.com > > >Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the > practicality of opening the canopy when the thread began with an > admission of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright stupid > act). Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught aerobatics > in general, let alone in uncertified airplanes? Haven't we lost enough > friends to such shenanegans? > >I don't know how many are keeping track, but this has been a > bad year for RV accidents. I get to see the FAA reaction and > it is becoming a source of concern to me. I have owned 5 RVs in my life > (2 RV-3's, 2 RV-6's, and an RV-4) and loved them all. But self taught > aerobatics, buzz jobs, and other completely avoidable accidents do all > of sport aviation a big disservice. > > >-----Original > Message----- >From: Panama Red <panamared505(at)brier.net> >To: > rv-list(at)matronics.com >Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:26 pm >Subject: Re: > RV-List: Loop problem > > >--> RV-List message > posted by: "Panama Red" > >> > Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........ > :-( >> >> Sam Buchanan > >I have often > thought this about my RV6. Opening the canopy in normal flight beyond about 2 > inches is next to impossible. I mentioned this to a retired USAF F-4 Driver > and his response was "It depends upon how motivated you > are!" > >But the caution about having plenty of altitude is > good. It will give you more time to try and regain control even if you don't > think you can bail out. The IAC requires parachutes in competiton, so I use > one regardless of what I think its usefullness might be. And who knows, if I > loose control in an inverted flat spin and can't regain control, maybe I will > be able to open the canopy. > >Bob >RV6 "Wicked Witch > of the West" > > > > >p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution > >________________________________ > With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click > here. > > >=================================== >="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List=================================== >ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com >=================================== >tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=================================== > > ________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2009
From: Mike Divan <n343fd(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
I seem to remember some dude doing a bunch of "aerobatic Maneuver's" in an Aero Commander. Now is a Aero Commander "certified for aerobatics"? Now what was his name ... O yea BOB HOVER. Would you call him a "DW" or a "Adam Henry"? I would call him one of the greatest pilots I have had the pleasure of watching perform. As for Charlie Sorry you got such a phyco response to your question. It might be a good idea to get some lessons from a pro when learning about aerobatics in anything (you actually loped a 140 - yikes). I get lessons for spins, rolls and ... well that is about as far as I have gone so far and it will be a long time before I do them alone. I want to make sure I do not end up a statistic and that I understand and can recover from any mistakes. With me and the instructor we depart with minimum fuel to stay below the weight limit but I do not last long any way. So far it has not been the fuel that ended the lessons it is my ability to get motion sick real fast :) ALTHOUGH I last a little longer each time and it is a blast even if I do end up a little on the green side every time. Have fun but for heaven sake be safe. Mike Divan N64GH - RV6 (flying) http://n64gh.blogspot.com/ FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS! Remember it is the Solder, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Cost Guard that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"! ________________________________ From: "RV6ator(at)aol.com" <RV6ator(at)aol.com> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:10:43 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. HEY DICKWEED, A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER, AEROBATIC MANUEVERS SHOULD BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS, LAST TIME I CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT HEY, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT, BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF ASSHOLES LIKE YOU HAVE CRASHED AND BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS ONBOARD> In a message dated 8/31/2009 6:48:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrobert569(at)hotmail.com writes: Show me > in the regs where looping a Cherokee 140 is illegal. While I agree > it may not be smart, it is not illegal. > >Mike Robertson >Das > Fed > >________________________________ > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest > of the story. >Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:14:11 -0400 >From: > jvanlaak(at)aol.com > > >Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the > practicality of opening the canopy when the thread began with an > admission of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright stupid > act). Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught aerobatics > in general, let alone in uncertified airplanes? Haven't we lost enough > friends to such shenanegans? > >I don't know how many are keeping track, but this has been a > bad year for RV accidents. I get to see the FAA reaction and > it is becoming a source of concern to me. I have owned 5 RVs in my life > (2 RV-3's, 2 RV-6's, and an RV-4) and loved them all. But self taught > aerobatics, buzz jobs, and other completely avoidable accidents do all > of sport aviation a big disservice. > > >-----Original > Message----- >From: Panama Red <panamared505(at)brier.net> >To: > rv-list(at)matronics.com >Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:26 pm >Subject: Re: > RV-List: Loop problem > > >--> RV-List message > posted by: "Panama Red" > >> > Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........ > :-( >> >> Sam Buchanan > >I have often > thought this about my RV6. Opening the canopy in normal flight beyond about 2 > inches is next to impossible. I mentioned this to a retired USAF F-4 Driver > and his response was "It depends upon how motivated you > are!" > >But the caution about having plenty of altitude is > good. It will give you more time to try and regain control even if you don't > think you can bail out. The IAC requires parachutes in competiton, so I use > one regardless of what I think its usefullness might be. And who knows, if I > loose control in an inverted flat spin and can't regain control, maybe I will > be able to open the canopy. > >Bob >RV6 "Wicked Witch > of the West" > > > > >p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution > >________________________________ > With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click > here. > > >=================================== >="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List=================================== >ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com >=================================== >tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=================================== > > ________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 01, 2009
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
WTF? Please go back on your medications. -N1GV (non-psycho RV-6A driver) In a message dated 8/31/2009 4:21:23 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, RV6ator(at)aol.com writes: HEY DICKWEED, A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER, AEROBATIC MANUEVERS SHOULD BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS, LAST TIME I CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT HEY, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT, BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF ASSHOLES LIKE YOU HAVE CRASHED AND BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS ONBOARD> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "charlie heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Loop problem
Date: Sep 01, 2009
Yes Sam I agree, Parachute would note be of any use. When I first got my 6a I forgot to t latch the canopy a few times and had to pull full flaps and slw to near stall to be able to move the canopy enuf to latch. I had always thought that it could not be opened if ypou had to try to et out in flight. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 12:25 Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem Linn Walters wrote: My only suggestion when you're breaking new ground > in the flight envelope is to do it high .... very high ...... and, of > course, wear a 'chute. Better to carry one and not need it than need it > and not have it. > Linn Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........ :-( Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "charlie heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Sep 01, 2009
Hey, Forget this whole thing!!! No reason to act like or speak like this!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: RV6ator(at)aol.com To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 18:10 Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. HEY DICKWEED, A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER, AEROBATIC MANUEVERS SHOULD BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS, LAST TIME I CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT HEY, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT, BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF ASSHOLES LIKE YOU HAVE CRASHED AND BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS ONBOARD> In a message dated 8/31/2009 6:48:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrobert569(at)hotmail.com writes: Show me in the regs where looping a Cherokee 140 is illegal. While I agree it may not be smart, it is not illegal. Mike Robertson Das Fed ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:14:11 -0400 From: jvanlaak(at)aol.com Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the practicality of opening the canopy when the thread began with an admission of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright stupid act). Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught aerobatics in general, let alone in uncertified airplanes? Haven't we lost enough friends to such shenanegans? I don't know how many are keeping track, but this has been a bad year for RV accidents. I get to see the FAA reaction and it is becoming a source of concern to me. I have owned 5 RVs in my life (2 RV-3's, 2 RV-6's, and an RV-4) and loved them all. But self taught aerobatics, buzz jobs, and other completely avoidable accidents do all of sport aviation a big disservice. -----Original Message----- From: Panama Red <panamared505(at)brier.net> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:26 pm Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem > Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........ :-( > > Sam Buchanan I have often thought this about my RV6. Opening the canopy in normal flight beyond about 2 inches is next to impossible. I mentioned this to a retired USAF F-4 Driver and his response was "It depends upon how motivated you are!" But the caution about having plenty of altitude is good. It will give you more time to try and regain control even if you don't think you can bail out. The IAC requires parachutes in competiton, so I use one regardless of what I think its usefullness might be. And who knows, if I loose control in an inverted flat spin and can't regain control, maybe I will be able to open the canopy. Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?RV-List ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Sep 01, 2009
Excuse me but when did I ever call anyone a name. And you will also note I did not say whether I or anyone else should do it=2C just whether it was le gal. I do not endorse or recommend anyone doing any aerobatics without tra ining=2C even in an RV6ator=2C but if I tried to take them to task I would have a very rough time. Mike Robertson Federal Asshole please From: RV6ator(at)aol.com Date: Mon=2C 31 Aug 2009 19:10:43 -0400 Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. HEY DICKWEED=2C A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER=2C AEROBATIC MANUEVERS SHOU LD BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS=2C LAST TIME I CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT HEY=2C KNOCK YOURS ELF OUT=2C BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF ASSHOLES LIKE YOU HAVE CR ASHED AND BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS ONBOARD> In a message dated 8/31/2009 6:48:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time=2C mrobert5 69(at)hotmail.com writes: Show me in the regs where looping a Cherokee 140 is illegal. While I agree it may not be smart=2C it is not illegal. Mike Robertson Das Fed Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. Date: Mon=2C 31 Aug 2009 17:14:11 -0400 From: jvanlaak(at)aol.com Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the pract icality of opening the canopy when the thread began with an admission of lo oping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright stupid act). Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught aerobatics in general=2C let alone in uncertified airplanes? Haven't we lost enough friends to such sh enanegans? I don't know how many are keeping track=2C but this has been a bad year for RV accidents. I get to see the FAA reaction and it is becoming a source o f concern to me. I have owned 5 RVs in my life (2 RV-3's=2C 2 RV-6's=2C an d an RV-4) and loved them all. But self taught aerobatics=2C buzz jobs=2C and other completely avoidable accidents do all of sport aviation a big dis service. -----Original Message----- From: Panama Red <panamared505(at)brier.net> Sent: Mon=2C Aug 31=2C 2009 4:26 pm Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem > Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........ :-( > > Sam Buchanan I have often thought this about my RV6. Opening the canopy in normal flight beyond about 2 inches is next to impossible. I mentioned this to a retired USAF F-4 Driver and his response was "It depends upon how motivated you ar e!" But the caution about having plenty of altitude is good. It will give you m ore time to try and regain control even if you don't think you can bail out . The IAC requires parachutes in competiton=2C so I use one regardless of w hat I think its usefullness might be. And who knows=2C if I loose control i n an inverted flat spin and can't regain control=2C maybe I will be able to open the canopy. Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution With Windows Live=2C you can organize=2C edit=2C and share your photos. Cli ck here. ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Na vigator?RV-List ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL :ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 2009
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
From: Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com>
Mike, we appreciate having you here on the list! Even if your first RV is somewhere on the bottom of the ocean near Hawaii ;-) Don't be put off by the ill-manners of some. You are a welcome member of the community, and your restraint is admirable. -Bill RV-6A that's never been looped. On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mike Robertson wrote: > Excuse me but when did I ever call anyone a name. And you will also note I > did not say whether I or anyone else should do it, just whether it was > legal. I do not endorse or recommend anyone doing any aerobatics without > training, even in an RV6ator, but if I tried to take them to task I would > have a very rough time. > > Mike Robertson > Federal Asshole please > > ------------------------------ > > *======================== > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Panama Red" <panamared505(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Sep 01, 2009
Just this past week we lost Vicki > Cruse, a highly capable aerobatic pilot and IAC president. If the best > can't survive, where do the 'weekend warrior' aerobatic pilots fit in??? No disrespect for anyone on the list, but I do have to comment. Yes we lost Vicki last week, and last month we lost Chandy Clanton and Art Shoal was lost in the 80's and Leo Loudenslager was lost in the 80's due to a motorcycle accident. During this past year numerous civilian, military and commercial aircraft have also crashed. In the future we will lose more! Do we quit flying? Vicki started her acrobatic career as a weekend warrior, as did most competition pilots. When she crashed she was practicing a highly technical unlimited aerobatic competition sequence on the deck that RV aircraft physically can not perform. At the World Aerobatic Champtionship, many pilots push their planes and themselves to the limit of their flying abilities, weekend warriors have no motivation to do the same. Just because she crashed, I fail to see how that has any impact on my, or anyone else's weekend and weekday aerobatics. What does impact my aerobatics are: airworthiness of the aircraft, pilot skill, knowledge and attitude, practice, and practice and more practice. I only fly my RV for competition style aerobatics. The more I fly the RV the more I like it for aerobatics. I have had a few hours of aerobatic instruction but most of the aerobatic maneuvers, I have learned on my own (self taught): Hammerhead, Sharkstooth, Inverted Flying, 4 Point Roll, Knife Edge, Cloverleaf, P-Loop, Split S. I have no unreasonable fear of aerobatics in my RV, on the other hand I have a healthy respect for weather and I never fly in IMC (that is really scary!). But many RV pilots fly IMC all the time and are comfortable with that type of flying. But let us not say after some high profile IFR pilot crashes in IMC that the rest of us don't stand a chance flying IFR! Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Von Bevern" <bvonbevern(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Looping Cherokees and RV parachutes
Date: Sep 01, 2009
I'd always assumed that since the FAR's define aerobatic flight as attitudes "not necessary for normal flight" (as I recall, anything exceeding 60 degrees bank or 30 degrees pitch) and a Cherokee isn't certified in the "aerobatic" category, that a loop would therefore be illegal; is there some definition I'm missing? Any sort of weed that has better info please chime in... More on topic; I've heard nobody's ever bailed out of an RV, but does anyone know of an accident where someone tried? My concern's always been either structural failure (over G'ing the airplane accidently, or maybe a bird strike). For that matter, anyone know of a crash caused by structural failure aside from the RV-8 demonstrator a few years ago? My feeling has always been that was an overload from too eager stick movement... Brian V RV-6 31 hours (still phase 1) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 2009
Subject: Re: RE: Re: Flying over water
From: Matt Redmond <mdredmond(at)gmail.com>
I'm not sure if I'm replying properly guys. Let me know if I'm doing this wrong. I only subscribe to the digest, which makes replying awkward. Ralph, I'd at least have an inflatable as you mention (I have SOSpenders), but be sure to take the auto-inflate bobbin out! You wouldn't want to be in your upside-down plane with an inflated vest on... >Thanks Mike..... >Meaning that I'm kinda back to the original no-real-rules statement. >I'm thinking a set of inflatable suspender-type with a light and whistle attached >(like I use while sailing) is a good start - I can wear that and still strap >in properly ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 2009
From: Mike Divan <n343fd(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: emergency extrication
Getting out of a RV with an in flight emergency seems dicey at best then again I can imagine that getting out of those Spitfires and ME 109's in WW II was not easy but they did get out. I remember reading the story of this one Germain Ace and his technique (yep he did it more than once) was to use his feet to push forward on the stick and that popped him out. One time when he was getting ready the guy that just shot him down over shot him so he got back in the seat fired and shot the American down. Then he "ejected" himself and they both had dinner in the officers mess at the Germain base. Next day the American went off to POW camp. OK a little off the point but it might be possible to get out of a flying/falling RV. Of course you need to actually have the parachute on to even give it a try and I have yet to see any one flying an RV with one on. Mike Divan N64GH - RV6 (flying) http://n64gh.blogspot.com/ FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS! Remember it is the Solder, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Cost Guard that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"! ________________________________ From: David Leonard <wdleonard(at)gmail.com> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:35:21 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: emergency extrication Dont forget that if you are trying to get out of the aircraft, it is probably not in normal forward flight. It may be the case that falling condition alters the aerodynamic forces such that opening either canopy may be possible. The aft CG stall in particular comes to mind. Point is... at least give it a try - Oh, and that parachute may have been worth while after all. (Though I admit that I don't wear one.) -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 2:27 PM, Linn Walters wrote: > >>My apologies to the list, and thank you Sam, for the education! >>Something to think about. Exiting my Pitts (no, I've never done it) is probably going to be really tough due to air loads ..... that I never thought about. It's hard enough to get in/out sitting in front of the hangar!!! I suppose you could maneuver the airplane to decrease those wind loads .... but if you can maneuver the airplane .... why leave it. Well, if it's on fire .... >> >Linn > >>Sam Buchanan wrote: > >> >>>> >> >>>>Linn Walters wrote: >>>> > Sam Buchanan wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> Linn Walters wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> My only suggestion when you're breaking new ground >>>> >>> in the flight envelope is to do it high .... very high ...... and, of course, wear a 'chute. Better to carry one and not need it than need it and not have it. >>>> >>> Linn >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........ :-( >>>> > Why is that? Inquiring minds want to know! >>>> > Linn >> >> >> >>>>Linn, >> >>>>There are two canopy designs on the side-by-side RVs: >> >>>>tip up; Originally designed with a quick release mechanism that *may* have worked properly when the canopies were built without hydraulic assist (guess in an emergency you wouldn't worry about whether or not it would take off your head or the vertical stab as it departed the plane....). But since mid-90's, the hydraulic struts have been shipped with finish kits and would almost certainly prevent the canopy from detaching as designed. >> >>>>slider; can be opened in flight, however....... >> >>>>The airloads on both designs make it nearly impossible to get either canopy open more than a few inches in flight. The tip up can be pushed up with difficulty maybe 6-12", the slider can be pushed back less than 12". In either case a pilot would find it practically impossible to exit the aircraft. If a builder was serious about aerobatics quick-release pins might be incorporated into the slider installation. Some have done this with the RV-8. >> >>>>As far as I know, there are *no* documented cases of someone bailing out of a side-by-side RV with either canopy. Matter of fact, there are no documented cases of anyone even attempting to jettison the tip up canopy. >> >>>>A parachute in a RV-6/6A might make you feel safer until you actually needed to use it. ;-) >> >>>>Sam Buchanan >> >> >> >> >> >> > >>========== >>get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >>========== >http://forums.matronics.com >>========== >>le, List Admin. >>="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>========== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 2009
From: Hadley Heinrichs <rvhad(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: emergency extrication
can you even open an RV canopy in mid flight to jump? seems to me the pressure would make the task impossible unless the canopy was broken first. ________________________________ From: Mike Divan <n343fd(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 1:13:23 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: emergency extrication Getting out of a RV with an in flight emergency seems dicey at best then again I can imagine that getting out of those Spitfires and ME 109's in WW II was not easy but they did get out. I remember reading the story of this one Germain Ace and his technique (yep he did it more than once) was to use his feet to push forward on the stick and that popped him out. One time when he was getting ready the guy that just shot him down over shot him so he got back in the seat fired and shot the American down. Then he "ejected" himself and they both had dinner in the officers mess at the Germain base. Next day the American went off to POW camp. OK a little off the point but it might be possible to get out of a flying/falling RV. Of course you need to actually have the parachute on to even give it a try and I have yet to see any one flying an RV with one on. Mike Divan N64GH - RV6 (flying) http://n64gh.blogspot.com/ FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS! Remember it is the Solder, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Cost Guard that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"! ________________________________ From: David Leonard <wdleonard(at)gmail.com> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:35:21 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: emergency extrication Dont forget that if you are trying to get out of the aircraft, it is probably not in normal forward flight. It may be the case that falling condition alters the aerodynamic forces such that opening either canopy may be possible. The aft CG stall in particular comes to mind. Point is... at least give it a try - Oh, and that parachute may have been worth while after all. (Though I admit that I don't wear one.) -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 2:27 PM, Linn Walters wrote: > >>My apologies to the list, and thank you Sam, for the education! >>Something to think about. Exiting my Pitts (no, I've never done it) is probably going to be really tough due to air loads ..... that I never thought about. It's hard enough to get in/out sitting in front of the hangar!!! I suppose you could maneuver the airplane to decrease those wind loads .... but if you can maneuver the airplane .... why leave it. Well, if it's on fire .... >> >Linn > >>Sam Buchanan wrote: > >> >>>> >> >>>>Linn Walters wrote: >>>> > Sam Buchanan wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> Linn Walters wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> My only suggestion when you're breaking new ground >>>> >>> in the flight envelope is to do it high .... very high ...... and, of course, wear a 'chute. Better to carry one and not need it than need it and not have it. >>>> >>> Linn >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........ :-( >>>> > Why is that? Inquiring minds want to know! >>>> > Linn >> >> >> >>>>Linn, >> >>>>There are two canopy designs on the side-by-side RVs: >> >>>>tip up; Originally designed with a quick release mechanism that *may* have worked properly when the canopies were built without hydraulic assist (guess in an emergency you wouldn't worry about whether or not it would take off your head or the vertical stab as it departed the plane....). But since mid-90's, the hydraulic struts have been shipped with finish kits and would almost certainly prevent the canopy from detaching as designed. >> >>>>slider; can be opened in flight, however....... >> >>>>The airloads on both designs make it nearly impossible to get either canopy open more than a few inches in flight. The tip up can be pushed up with difficulty maybe 6-12", the slider can be pushed back less than 12". In either case a pilot would find it practically impossible to exit the aircraft. If a builder was serious about aerobatics quick-release pins might be incorporated into the slider installation. Some have done this with the RV-8. >> >>>>As far as I know, there are *no* documented cases of someone bailing out of a side-by-side RV with either canopy. Matter of fact, there are no documented cases of anyone even attempting to jettison the tip up canopy. >> >>>>A parachute in a RV-6/6A might make you feel safer until you actually needed to use it. ;-) >> >>>>Sam Buchanan >> >> >> >> >> >> > >>========== >>get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >>========== >http://forums.matronics.com >>========== >>le, List Admin. >>="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>========== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 2009
From: rveighta(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: emergency extrication
Maybe some of you have been on the list long enough to remember a fellow ou t in Oregon or Washington, whose RV8 caught on fire after a catostrophic engine failure - His first name was Vau ghan, can't remember the last name - anyway the story I heard was that he jumped from the plane to his death (no chute) rather than stay in it. So, it is possible to get out of an RV. An RV8 at least. This incident happend around 1999 I beli eve. Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hadley Heinrichs" <rvhad(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 6:41:08 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: RV-List: emergency extrication can you even open an RV canopy in mid flight to jump?=C2- seems to me the pressure would make the task impossible unless the canopy was broken first . From: Mike Divan <n343fd(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 1:13:23 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: emergency extrication Getting out of a RV with an in flight emergency seems dicey at best then ag ain I can imagine that getting out of those Spitfires and ME 109's in WW II was not easy but they did get out. I remember reading the story of this on e Germain Ace and his technique (yep he did it more than once) was to use h is feet to push forward on the stick and that popped him out. One time when he was getting ready the guy that just shot him down over shot him so he g ot back in the seat fired and shot the American down. Then he "ejected" him self and they both had dinner in the officers mess at the Germain base. Nex t day the American went off to POW camp. OK a little off the point but it m ight be possible to get out of a flying/falling RV. Of course you need to a ctually have the parachute on to even give it a try and I have yet to see a ny one flying an RV with one on. Mike Divan N64GH - RV6 (flying) http://n64gh.blogspot.com/ FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS! Remember it is the Solder, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Cost Guard that guara ntee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"! From: David Leonard <wdleonard(at)gmail.com> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:35:21 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: emergency extrication Dont forget that if you are trying to get out of the=C2- aircraft, it is probably not in normal forward flight.=C2- It may be the case that fallin g condition alters the aerodynamic forces such that opening either canopy m ay be possible.=C2- The aft CG stall in particular comes to mind.=C2- P oint is... at least give it a try - Oh, and that parachute may have been wo rth while after all.=C2- (Though I admit that I don't wear one.) -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 2:27 PM, Linn Walters < pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net > wrote: My apologies to the list, and thank you Sam, for the education! Something to think about. =C2-Exiting my Pitts (no, I've never done it) i s probably going to be really tough due to air loads ..... that I never tho ught about. =C2-It's hard enough to get in/out sitting in front of the ha ngar!!! =C2-I suppose you could maneuver the airplane to decrease those w ind loads .... but if you can maneuver the airplane .... why leave it. =C2 -Well, if it's on fire .... Linn Sam Buchanan wrote: Linn Walters wrote: =C2-> Sam Buchanan wrote: =C2->> =C2->> Linn Walters wrote: th.net > =C2->> =C2->> =C2- My only suggestion when you're breaking new ground =C2->>> in the flight envelope is to do it high .... very high ...... and , of course, wear a 'chute. =C2-Better to carry one and not need it than need it and not have it. =C2->>> Linn =C2->> =C2->> =C2->> Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A...... .. :-( =C2-> Why is that? =C2-Inquiring minds want to know! =C2-> Linn Linn, There are two canopy designs on the side-by-side RVs: tip up; Originally designed with a quick release mechanism that *may* have worked properly when the canopies were built without hydraulic assist (gues s in an emergency you wouldn't worry about whether or not it would take off your head or the vertical stab as it departed the plane....). But since mi d-90's, the hydraulic struts have been shipped with finish kits and would a lmost certainly prevent the canopy from detaching as designed. slider; can be opened in flight, however....... The airloads on both designs make it nearly impossible to get either canopy open more than a few inches in flight. The tip up can be pushed up with di fficulty maybe 6-12", the slider can be pushed back less than 12". In eithe r case a pilot would find it practically impossible to exit the aircraft. I f a builder was serious about aerobatics quick-release pins might be incorp orated into the slider installation. Some have done this with the RV-8. As far as I know, there are *no* documented cases of someone bailing out of a side-by-side RV with either canopy. Matter of fact, there are no documen ted cases of anyone even attempting to jettison the tip up canopy. A parachute in a RV-6/6A might make you feel safer until you actually neede d to use it. =C2-;-) Sam Buchanan =========== get="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List =========== http://forums.matronics.com =========== le, List Admin. ="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== == ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 2009
From: Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com>
Subject: Re: emergency extrication
On Tue, 1 Sep 2009, rveighta(at)comcast.net wrote: > > > Maybe some of you have been on the list long enough to remember a >fellow out in Oregon or Washington, whose RV8 > caught on fire after a catostrophic engine failure - His first name was >Vaughan, can't remember the last name - anyway > the story I heard was that he jumped from the plane to his death (no >chute) rather than stay in it. So, it is possible to > get out of an RV. An RV8 at least. This incident happend around 1999 I >believe. Von Alexander (I may have the spelling wrong). He had put in release pins for the screws that hold the front of the canopy down to make bailing out a possibility. I wear a chute in the starduster when doing aerobatics, plan on doing so in the RV as well. Brian Huffaker RV-8A 80091 working on canopy latch 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: emergency extrication
Date: Sep 01, 2009
From: jvanlaak(at)aol.com
I sold Von the chute he wore during the test hours on his plane.? He had sold it to another RV builder for his test period only a couple weeks before he jumped to his death.? Corresponded with his daughter for a while afterwards as the family came to grips with his loss. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com> Sent: Tue, Sep 1, 2009 8:01 pm Subject: Re: RV-List: emergency extrication On Tue, 1 Sep 2009, rveighta(at)comcast.net wrote: > > > Maybe some of you have been on the list long enough to remember a >fellow out in Oregon or Washington, whose RV8 > caught on fire after a catostrophic engine failure - His first name was >Vaughan, can't remember the last name - anyway > the story I heard was that he jumped from the plane to his death (no >chute) rather than stay in it. So, it is possible to > get out of an RV. An RV8 at least. This incident happend around 1999 I >believe. Von Alexander (I may have the spelling wrong). He had put in release pins for the screws that hold the front of the canopy down to make bailing out a possibility. I wear a chute in the starduster when doing aerobatics, plan on doing so in the RV as well. Brian Huffaker RV-8A 80091 working on canopy latch 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 2009
Subject: Re: emergency extrication
From: cecilth(at)juno.com
I am building a slider and put pull pins at the left and right rollers. With the idea that I could pull the two pins then push it up and let the air stream carry the canopy away. It may damage the rudder on it way, but it is a last resort type of thing. I won't be testing out ether. Cecil writes: > can you even open an RV canopy in mid flight to jump? seems to me > the pressure would make the task impossible unless the canopy was > broken first. > > > ________________________________ > From: Mike Divan <n343fd(at)yahoo.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 1:13:23 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: emergency extrication > > > Getting out of a RV with an in flight emergency seems dicey at best > then again I can imagine that getting out of those Spitfires and ME > 109's in WW II was not easy but they did get out. I remember reading > the story of this one Germain Ace and his technique (yep he did it > more than once) was to use his feet to push forward on the stick and > that popped him out. One time when he was getting ready the guy that > just shot him down over shot him so he got back in the seat fired > and shot the American down. Then he "ejected" himself and they both > had dinner in the officers mess at the Germain base. Next day the > American went off to POW camp. OK a little off the point but it > might be possible to get out of a flying/falling RV. Of course you > need to actually have the parachute on to even give it a try and I > have yet to see any one flying an RV with one on. > > Mike Divan > N64GH - RV6 (flying) > http://n64gh.blogspot.com/ > FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS! > Remember it is the Solder, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Cost Guard > that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"! > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: David Leonard <wdleonard(at)gmail.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:35:21 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: emergency extrication > > Dont forget that if you are trying to get out of the aircraft, it > is probably not in normal forward flight. It may be the case that > falling condition alters the aerodynamic forces such that opening > either canopy may be possible. The aft CG stall in particular comes > to mind. Point is... at least give it a try - Oh, and that > parachute may have been worth while after all. (Though I admit that > I don't wear one.) > > -- > David Leonard > > Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY > http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net > http://RotaryRoster.net > > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 2:27 PM, Linn Walters > wrote: > > > > > >>My apologies to the list, and thank you Sam, for the education! > >>Something to think about. Exiting my Pitts (no, I've never done > it) is probably going to be really tough due to air loads ..... that > I never thought about. It's hard enough to get in/out sitting in > front of the hangar!!! I suppose you could maneuver the airplane to > decrease those wind loads .... but if you can maneuver the airplane > .... why leave it. Well, if it's on fire .... > >> > >Linn > > > >>Sam Buchanan wrote: > > > >> > >>>> bounced> > >> > >>>>Linn Walters wrote: > >>>> > Sam Buchanan wrote: > > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Linn Walters wrote: > > >>>> >> > >>>> >> My only suggestion when you're breaking new ground > >>>> >>> in the flight envelope is to do it high .... very high > ...... and, of course, wear a 'chute. Better to carry one and not > need it than need it and not have it. > >>>> >>> Linn > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the > RV-6A........ :-( > >>>> > Why is that? Inquiring minds want to know! > >>>> > Linn > >> > >> > >> > >>>>Linn, > >> > >>>>There are two canopy designs on the side-by-side RVs: > >> > >>>>tip up; Originally designed with a quick release mechanism that > *may* have worked properly when the canopies were built without > hydraulic assist (guess in an emergency you wouldn't worry about > whether or not it would take off your head or the vertical stab as > it departed the plane....). But since mid-90's, the hydraulic struts > have been shipped with finish kits and would almost certainly > prevent the canopy from detaching as designed. > >> > >>>>slider; can be opened in flight, however....... > >> > >>>>The airloads on both designs make it nearly impossible to get > either canopy open more than a few inches in flight. The tip up can > be pushed up with difficulty maybe 6-12", the slider can be pushed > back less than 12". In either case a pilot would find it practically > impossible to exit the aircraft. If a builder was serious about > aerobatics quick-release pins might be incorporated into the slider > installation. Some have done this with the RV-8. > >> > >>>>As far as I know, there are *no* documented cases of someone > bailing out of a side-by-side RV with either canopy. Matter of fact, > there are no documented cases of anyone even attempting to jettison > the tip up canopy. > >> > >>>>A parachute in a RV-6/6A might make you feel safer until you > actually needed to use it. ;-) > >> > >>>>Sam Buchanan > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > >>========== > >>get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > >>========== > >http://forums.matronics.com > >>========== > >>le, List Admin. > >>="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > >>========== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTFoYeDADrgtHkBgpAn1qqKsqQFmL5n0F02CiXyGtINxTiFss8IglK/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 2009
Subject: Re: emergency extrication
From: cecilth(at)juno.com
You are right. It was at a very low altitude too. Cecil > > > Maybe some of you have been on the list long enough to remember a > fellow out in Oregon or Washington, whose RV8 > > caught on fire after a catostrophic engine failure - His first name > was Vaughan, can't remember the last name - anyway > > the story I heard was that he jumped from the plane to his death (no > chute) rather than stay in it. So, it is possible to > > get out of an RV. An RV8 at least. This incident happend around 1999 > I believe. > > > > Walt > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hadley Heinrichs" <rvhad(at)yahoo.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 6:41:08 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada > Eastern > Subject: Re: RV-List: emergency extrication > > > > can you even open an RV canopy in mid flight to jump? seems to me > the pressure would make the task impossible unless the canopy was > broken first. > > > From: Mike Divan <n343fd(at)yahoo.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 1:13:23 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: emergency extrication > > > Getting out of a RV with an in flight emergency seems dicey at best > then again I can imagine that getting out of those Spitfires and ME > 109's in WW II was not easy but they did get out. I remember reading > the story of this one Germain Ace and his technique (yep he did it > more than once) was to use his feet to push forward on the stick and > that popped him out. One time when he was getting ready the guy that > just shot him down over shot him so he got back in the seat fired > and shot the American down. Then he "ejected" himself and they both > had dinner in the officers mess at the Germain base. Next day the > American went off to POW camp. OK a little off the point but it > might be possible to get out of a flying/falling RV. Of course you > need to actually have the parachute on to even give it a try and I > have yet to see any one flying an RV with one on. > > Mike Divan > N64GH - RV6 (flying) > http://n64gh.blogspot.com/ > FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS! > Remember it is the Solder, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Cost Guard > that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"! > > > > > > > From: David Leonard <wdleonard(at)gmail.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:35:21 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: emergency extrication > > Dont forget that if you are trying to get out of the aircraft, it > is probably not in normal forward flight. It may be the case that > falling condition alters the aerodynamic forces such that opening > either canopy may be possible. The aft CG stall in particular > comes to mind. Point is... at least give it a try - Oh, and that > parachute may have been worth while after all. (Though I admit > that I don't wear one.) > > -- > David Leonard > > Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY > http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net > http://RotaryRoster.net > > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 2:27 PM, Linn Walters < > pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net > wrote: > > > pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net > > > My apologies to the list, and thank you Sam, for the education! > Something to think about. Exiting my Pitts (no, I've never done > it) is probably going to be really tough due to air loads ..... that > I never thought about. It's hard enough to get in/out sitting in > front of the hangar!!! I suppose you could maneuver the airplane > to decrease those wind loads .... but if you can maneuver the > airplane .... why leave it. Well, if it's on fire .... > Linn > > Sam Buchanan wrote: > > > > bounced> > > Linn Walters wrote: > > Sam Buchanan wrote: > > >> > >> Linn Walters wrote: > pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net > > >> > >> My only suggestion when you're breaking new ground > >>> in the flight envelope is to do it high .... very high ...... > and, of course, wear a 'chute. Better to carry one and not need it > than need it and not have it. > >>> Linn > >> > >> > >> Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the > RV-6A........ :-( > > Why is that? Inquiring minds want to know! > > Linn > > > > Linn, > > There are two canopy designs on the side-by-side RVs: > > tip up; Originally designed with a quick release mechanism that > *may* have worked properly when the canopies were built without > hydraulic assist (guess in an emergency you wouldn't worry about > whether or not it would take off your head or the vertical stab as > it departed the plane....). But since mid-90's, the hydraulic struts > have been shipped with finish kits and would almost certainly > prevent the canopy from detaching as designed. > > slider; can be opened in flight, however....... > > The airloads on both designs make it nearly impossible to get either > canopy open more than a few inches in flight. The tip up can be > pushed up with difficulty maybe 6-12", the slider can be pushed back > less than 12". In either case a pilot would find it practically > impossible to exit the aircraft. If a builder was serious about > aerobatics quick-release pins might be incorporated into the slider > installation. Some have done this with the RV-8. > > As far as I know, there are *no* documented cases of someone bailing > out of a side-by-side RV with either canopy. Matter of fact, there > are no documented cases of anyone even attempting to jettison the > tip up canopy. > > A parachute in a RV-6/6A might make you feel safer until you > actually needed to use it. ;-) > > Sam Buchanan > > > > > > > > =========== > get="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > =========== > http://forums.matronics.com > =========== > le, List Admin. > ="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =========== > > > > > > > == ____________________________________________________________ Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTFoYayxESSb5H2lN3ejnzTEGu9VZsQ5o3wIL8CWUf5EKNny8D8Gli/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 2009
From: Louis Willig <larywil(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Aerobatics in a 140 and the recipe for sausage
Boy, I was ready to quit Matt's list because of the onset of boredom. Thanks for saving me RV6ator Bill. So, I think DICKWEED and ASSHOLE is actually part of the recipe for the sausage that we sometimes get at the local air show. I'm sure Bill had too many of them at 'Kosh, and he accidently regurgitated them in his post. OK, back to the subject. I do NOT believe that the FAA defines an aerobatic aircraft. They do define aerobatics ( or aerobatic maneuvers ). They do this because there are restrictions on when and where you may perform aerobatics. As Mike pointed out, the FAA does make it clear that you may not exceed the limitations stated in the manual, makings and placard. So, if an aircraft is approved for, say +3 and -1.5 G's, and the manual, markings, and placards do not specifically prohibit a loop, then I suppose you may legally perform loops the aircraft ( if you are in an FAA permitted area). That being said, you would still be considered a moron if you tried to loop the aforementioned aircraft. You might get away with it a few times, but..... Mike, would you care to comment. Louis I Willig 1640 Oakwood Dr. Penn Valley, PA 19072 610 668-4964 RV-4, N180PF 190HP IO-360, C/S prop ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 01, 2009
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
I agree for the most part but IMO those Cost (sic) Guard guys haven't been protecting the cost of my stocks very well lately. -N1GV In a message dated 9/1/2009 4:38:10 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, n343fd(at)yahoo.com writes: FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS! Remember it is the Solder, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Cost Guard that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 0GA1 - Mustang Field
Date: Sep 02, 2009
From: "George, Neal E Capt USAF ACC 605 TES/DOA" <Neal.George(at)hurlburt.af.mil>
Does anybody have any experience with Mustang Field near Athens, GA? Field conditions, obstructions, open to visitors.? Neal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glenn Bell" <glennbell(at)cablelynx.com>
Subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Sep 02, 2009
My first post but maybe somewhat relevant.we are building an 8A and have finished most of the subassemblys and are waiting on the lycon engine and the dynon nextgen.when someone comes by the hanger and wants to know what we are building we point to a photo of the really good looking 8A that we were told was at the bottom of the pacific ocean.we are duplicating the paint scheme except for painting the rudder solid red.we are using concept in gm white and gm victory red..the black accents will be vinyl.we will finish it with a three blade cato painted to match the fuse.we have been to osh the last two years and of all the paint schemes , we liked this the best. From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Boyd Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 10:08 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. Mike, we appreciate having you here on the list! Even if your first RV is somewhere on the bottom of the ocean near Hawaii ;-) Don't be put off by the ill-manners of some. You are a welcome member of the community, and your restraint is admirable. -Bill RV-6A that's never been looped. On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mike Robertson wrote: Excuse me but when did I ever call anyone a name. And you will also note I did not say whether I or anyone else should do it, just whether it was legal. I do not endorse or recommend anyone doing any aerobatics without training, even in an RV6ator, but if I tried to take them to task I would have a very rough time. Mike Robertson Federal Asshole please _____ ======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "charlie heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject: Loops clarification
Date: Sep 02, 2009
Man, I Hope this doesnt get anyones dander up :-) First, thanks for the notes on best entry speed and G pull, It is clear I didnt pull tight enuff. Gonna try it again next flight. I do have a g meter, my 6a has been cert for acro, and I was at 4000 msl. Re loops in 140, Cherokees are rugged planes. My coml Multi instructor had just returned from Nam as an L-19 driver, the man was fearless. taught me several things your not suposed to do. I wont mention them tho. One thing I was having chicken out problems trying to do three turn spins, which were required at that time. He went up with me, got the plane in what must have been a spiral. I looked out at wing and skins were flutering, looked at airspeed and it was way over red line. I casually mentioned, yea right, PULL OUT DON!!! Yes Cherokkes are rugged and they do a nice loop. (we nevr tiried rolls) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: rules
Date: Sep 02, 2009
From: grenwis(at)aol.com
Matt, Thank you for reposting the rules.? Now where is your e-mail saying that rv6ator@aol has been banned from the list?? I don't come to this list to read that kind of vulgarity and a personal attack.? If that isn't a clear violation of the rules, you'll never see one.? This list often goes on wild goose chases, but it is a benefit to hear other opinions in an open manner.? If the mean-spirited,?vicious attack launched by rv6ator@aol is allowed to go unpunished, I?will wish you well and unsubscribe. Rick? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com>
Date: Sep 02, 2009
Subject: Re: Loop problemLoop problem
All certified aircraft have an allowable flight envelope that always permit s flight at greater or less than +1g up to a specified limit. As far as the aircraft is concerned, attitude within that envelope doesn't matter. Howev er, the pilot has to have the intelligence, skill and situational awareness to remain within the envelope throughout any maneuver. FAA airspace restri ctions do matter - from a regulatory, not aerodynamic perspective. One can certainly start any acrobatic maneuver in a Cherokee - the kicker is proper ly assessing the probability of remaining in and recovery within said envel ope. Anyone remember the videos of Bob Hoover (I think it was him) doing acro an d inverted fight with a glass of water on the glare shield - and not spilli ng a drop? Acro and unusual attitudes are not inherently dangerous if approached with proper planning and understanding of both flight envelope limitations and the "what ifs". Airlines seem to agree by introducing upset training - admi ttedly only after a series of preventable delta sierra accidents involving improper control inputs in response to unexpected attitude excursions. Paul Valovich Booger RV-8A N192NM Reserved (again) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Loops clarification
Date: Sep 02, 2009
Spins were required for flight instructor cert. but not for PP cert. Jerry Jerry Springer Sent from my IPhone On Sep 2, 2009, at 6:52 AM, "charlie heathco" wrote: > Man, I Hope this doesnt get anyones dander up :-) First, thanks for > the notes on best entry speed and G pull, It is clear I didnt pull > tight enuff. Gonna try it again next flight. I do have a g meter, my > 6a has been cert for acro, and I was at 4000 msl. Re loops in 140, > Cherokees are rugged planes. My coml Multi instructor had just > returned from Nam as an L-19 driver, the man was fearless. taught me > several things your not suposed to do. I wont mention them tho. One > thing I was having chicken out problems trying to do three turn > spins, which were required at that time. He went up with me, got the > plane in what must have been a spiral. I looked out at wing and > skins were flutering, looked at airspeed and it was way over red > line. I casually mentioned, yea right, PULL OUT DON!!! Yes Cherokkes > are rugged and they do a nice loop. (we nevr tiried rolls) > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry(at)mc.net>
Subject: Installing New Brake Lines ... Questions
Date: Sep 02, 2009
Dear Listers, I'm replacing nylon lines with stainless braid/teflon tube. Is there any braking effectiveness difference between the -3 size and the -4 size lines? Is it true that the -3 lines cost more to fabricate because they are smaller therefore harder to fabricate? What does the list suggest to order ... the -3 or the -4 lines and why is one better than the other? Where is the best place, for price and service, to have the lines fabricated? Many thanks for the vast experience of this list ... Jerry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 02, 2009
Subject: Re: Installing New Brake Lines ... Questions
I had my Earl's lines fabricated at a speed shop and I prefer the smaller size line. There is very little flow in braking systems and the smaller size will give a firmer feel because of the reduction in internal surface area. -N1GV In a message dated 9/2/2009 8:40:51 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jerry(at)mc.net writes: I'm replacing nylon lines with stainless braid/teflon tube. Is there any braking effectiveness difference between the -3 size and the -4 size lines? Is it true that the -3 lines cost more to fabricate because they are smaller therefore harder to fabricate? What does the list suggest to order ... the -3 or the -4 lines and why is one better than the other? Where is the best place, for price and service, to have the lines fabricated? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Installing New Brake Lines ... Questions
Date: Sep 02, 2009
From: "George, Neal E Capt USAF ACC 605 TES/DOA" <Neal.George(at)hurlburt.af.mil>
Jerry - The good folks at Bonaco (www.bonacoinc.com) provide exceptional service at low cost. neal ============== Subject: RV-List: Installing New Brake Lines ... Questions Dear Listers, I'm replacing nylon lines with stainless braid/teflon tube. Is there any braking effectiveness difference between the -3 size and the -4 size lines? Is it true that the -3 lines cost more to fabricate because they are smaller therefore harder to fabricate? What does the list suggest to order ... the -3 or the -4 lines and why is one better than the other? Where is the best place, for price and service, to have the lines fabricated? Many thanks for the vast experience of this list ... Jerry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Loops clarification
Date: Sep 02, 2009
Jerry Springer Sent from my IPhone On Sep 2, 2009, at 6:52 AM, "charlie heathco" wrote: > Man, I Hope this doesnt get anyones dander up :-) First, thanks for > the notes on best entry speed and G pull, It is clear I didnt pull > tight enuff. Gonna try it again next flight. I do have a g meter, my > 6a has been cert for acro, and I was at 4000 msl. Re loops in 140, > Cherokees are rugged planes. My coml Multi instructor had just > returned from Nam as an L-19 driver, the man was fearless. taught me > several things your not suposed to do. I wont mention them tho. One > thing I was having chicken out problems trying to do three turn > spins, which were required at that time. He went up with me, got the > plane in what must have been a spiral. I looked out at wing and > skins were flutering, looked at airspeed and it was way over red > line. I casually mentioned, yea right, PULL OUT DON!!! Yes Cherokkes > are rugged and they do a nice loop. (we nevr tiried rolls) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <bmeyette(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Installing New Brake Lines ... Questions
Date: Sep 02, 2009
on pressure side, smaller is better - less fluid to move & smaller size transfers the pressure more efficently on supply side, larger is better - less resistance in motorcycle roadracing, we usually use -2 lines for brakes not sure if you can get them custom-made, though if i was going to get s/s braided brake lines, I'd first look at a motorcycle supplier like Street & Competition http://www.streetandcomp.com/ or here http://tinyurl.com/lyctk8 only issue might be if they can't do the 37 degree fitting we need _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Grimmonpre Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:39 AM Subject: RV-List: Installing New Brake Lines ... Questions Dear Listers, I'm replacing nylon lines with stainless braid/teflon tube. Is there any braking effectiveness difference between the -3 size and the -4 size lines? Is it true that the -3 lines cost more to fabricate because they are smaller


August 18, 2009 - September 02, 2009

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