RV-Archive.digest.vol-ud

September 02, 2009 - September 15, 2009



      therefore harder to fabricate?
      
      What does the list suggest to order ... the -3 or the -4 lines and why is
      one better than the other?
      
      Where is the best place, for price and service, to have the lines
      fabricated?
      
      Many thanks for the vast experience of this list ...
      
      Jerry
      
      
      05:50:00 
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bret Smith" <smithhb(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: Installing New Brake Lines ... Questions
Date: Sep 02, 2009
Call Brett at www.Bonacoinc.com. He has the sets for every make of RV. All braided Teflon lines with colored liners. Reasonable prices and excellent customer service. Bret Smith RV-9A N16BL Blue Ridge, GA www.FlightInnovations.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Meyette To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:14 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Installing New Brake Lines ... Questions on pressure side, smaller is better - less fluid to move & smaller size transfers the pressure more efficently on supply side, larger is better - less resistance in motorcycle roadracing, we usually use -2 lines for brakes not sure if you can get them custom-made, though if i was going to get s/s braided brake lines, I'd first look at a motorcycle supplier like Street & Competition http://www.streetandcomp.com/ or here http://tinyurl.com/lyctk8 only issue might be if they can't do the 37 degree fitting we need ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Grimmonpre Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:39 AM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Installing New Brake Lines ... Questions Dear Listers, I'm replacing nylon lines with stainless braid/teflon tube. Is there any braking effectiveness difference between the -3 size and the -4 size lines? Is it true that the -3 lines cost more to fabricate because they are smaller therefore harder to fabricate? What does the list suggest to order ... the -3 or the -4 lines and why is one better than the other? Where is the best place, for price and service, to have the lines fabricated? Many thanks for the vast experience of this list ... Jerry href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c 270.13.74/2339 - Release Date: 09/02/09 05:50:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Aerobatics in a 140 and the recipe for sausage
Date: Sep 02, 2009
No comment needed at this point. You pretty much said it all. But just because it may be legal does not make it smart. I highly encourag e getting training in ANY manuver of any type of aircraft that you have not done before. I=2C too=2C have lost friends doing stupid things and don't want to lose any more. But please remember=2C as in this discussion=2C the re can be a difference between what is leagl and what is smart and safe. Mike Robertson > Date: Tue=2C 1 Sep 2009 20:59:21 -0400 > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > From: larywil(at)comcast.net > Subject: RV-List: Aerobatics in a 140 and the recipe for sausage > > > > Boy=2C I was ready to quit Matt's list because of the onset of boredom. > Thanks for saving me RV6ator Bill. > > So=2C I think DICKWEED and ASSHOLE is actually part of the recipe for > the sausage that we sometimes get at the local air show. I'm sure > Bill had too many of them at 'Kosh=2C and he accidently regurgitated > them in his post. > > OK=2C back to the subject. I do NOT believe that the FAA defines an > aerobatic aircraft. They do define aerobatics ( or aerobatic > maneuvers ). They do this because there are restrictions on when and > where you may perform aerobatics. > > As Mike pointed out=2C the FAA does make it clear that you may not > exceed the limitations stated in the manual=2C makings and placard. So=2C > if an aircraft is approved for=2C say +3 and -1.5 G's=2C and the manual =2C > markings=2C and placards do not specifically prohibit a loop=2C then I > suppose you may legally perform loops the aircraft ( if you are in an > FAA permitted area). > > That being said=2C you would still be considered a moron if you tried > to loop the aforementioned aircraft. You might get away with it a few > times=2C but..... > > Mike=2C would you care to comment. > > > > > Louis I Willig > 1640 Oakwood Dr. > Penn Valley=2C PA 19072 > 610 668-4964 > RV-4=2C N180PF > 190HP IO-360=2C C/S prop > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ With Windows Live=2C you can organize=2C edit=2C and share your photos. http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6ator(at)AOL.COM
Date: Sep 02, 2009
Subject: Re: Aerobatics in a 140 and the recipe for sausage
hey guys, aircraft are CERTIFIED in a variety of CATEGORIES, normal, utility, aerobatic, experimental, experimental exhibition, and restricted. Most Cessna/Piper/Beech and other production aircraft are certified normal category and can be flown in the utility category at reduced gross weights, to allow for higher G-loading. An Aerobatic category aircraft has to meet certain requirments, including a quick egress system. For example Cessna built a 152 Aerobat for several years, it included larger C-172 struts, a beefier tail, and quick release doors. get the idea. bill mahoney In a message dated 9/2/2009 8:26:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrobert569(at)hotmail.com writes: No comment needed at this point. You pretty much said it all. But just because it may be legal does not make it smart. I highly encourage getting training in ANY maneuver of any type of aircraft that you have not done before. I, too, have lost friends doing stupid things and don't want to lose any more. But please remember, as in this discussion, there can be a difference between what is legal and what is smart and safe. Mike Robertson > Date: Tues, 1 Sep 2009 20:59:21 -0400 > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > From: larywil(at)comcast.net > Subject: RV-List: Aerobatics in a 140 and the recipe for sausage > > > > Boy, I was ready to quit Matt's list because of the onset of boredom. > Thanks for saving me RV6ator Bill. > > So, I think DICKWEED and ASSHOLE is actually part of the recipe for > the sausage that we sometimes get at the local air show. I'm sure > Bill had too many of them at 'Kosh, and he accidentally regurgitated > them in his post. > > OK, back to the subject. I do NOT believe that the FAA defines an > aerobatic aircraft. They do define aerobatics ( or aerobatic > maneuvers ). They do this because there are restrictions on when and > where you may perform aerobatics. > > As Mike pointed out, the FAA does make it clear that you may not > exceed the limitations stated in the manual, makings and placard. So, > if an aircraft is approved for, say +3 and -1.5 G's, and the manual, > markings, and placards do not specifically prohibit a loop, then I > suppose you may legally perform loops the aircraft ( if you are in an > FAA permitted area). > > That being said, you would still be considered a moron if you tried > to loop the aforementioned aircraft. You might get away with it a few > times, but..... > > Mike, would you care to comment. > > > > > Louis I Willig > 1640 Oakwood Dr. > Penn Valley, PA 19072 > 610 668-4964 > RV-4, N180PF > 190HP IO-36====================== > > > ____________________________________ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. _Click here._ (http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 02, 2009
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Aerobatics in a 140 and the recipe for sausage
The fact that Mr Mahoney is still posting here makes me think that the list has finally "jumped the shark" RV6ator(at)aol.com wrote: > hey guys, aircraft are CERTIFIED in a variety of CATEGORIES, normal, > utility, aerobatic, experimental, experimental exhibition, and > restricted. Most Cessna/Piper/Beech and other production aircraft are > certified normal category and can be flown in the utility category at > reduced gross weights, to allow for higher G-loading. An Aerobatic > category aircraft has to meet certain requirments, including a quick > egress system. For example Cessna built a 152 Aerobat for several > years, it included larger C-172 struts, a beefier tail, and quick > release doors. get the idea. > > bill mahoney > > In a message dated 9/2/2009 8:26:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > mrobert569(at)hotmail.com writes: > > No comment needed at this point. You pretty much said it all. > > But just because it may be legal does not make it smart. I highly > encourage getting training in ANY maneuver of any type of aircraft > that you have not done before. I, too, have lost friends doing > stupid things and don't want to lose any more. But please > remember, as in this discussion, there can be a difference between > what is legal and what is smart and safe. > > Mike Robertson > > > Date: Tues, 1 Sep 2009 20:59:21 -0400 > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > From: larywil(at)comcast.net > > Subject: RV-List: Aerobatics in a 140 and the recipe for sausage > > > > > > > > Boy, I was ready to quit Matt's list because of the onset of > boredom. > > Thanks for saving me RV6ator Bill. > > > > So, I think DICKWEED and ASSHOLE is actually part of the recipe for > > the sausage that we sometimes get at the local air show. I'm sure > > Bill had too many of them at 'Kosh, and he accidentally > regurgitated > > them in his post. > > > > OK, back to the subject. I do NOT believe that the FAA defines an > > aerobatic aircraft. They do define aerobatics ( or aerobatic > > maneuvers ). They do this because there are restrictions on when > and > > where you may perform aerobatics. > > > > As Mike pointed out, the FAA does make it clear that you may not > > exceed the limitations stated in the manual, makings and > placard. So, > > if an aircraft is approved for, say +3 and -1.5 G's, and the > manual, > > markings, and placards do not specifically prohibit a loop, then I > > suppose you may legally perform loops the aircraft ( if you are > in an > > FAA permitted area). > > > > That being said, you would still be considered a moron if you tried > > to loop the aforementioned aircraft. You might get away with it > a few > > times, but..... > > > > Mike, would you care to comment. > > > > > > > > > > Louis I Willig > > 1640 Oakwood Dr. > > Penn Valley, PA 19072 > > 610 668-4964 > > RV-4, N180PF > > 190HP IO-36====================== > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. > Click here. <http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery> > > * > > =================================== > ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > =================================== > ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > > * > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ford regulator wiring
Date: Sep 03, 2009
From: larygagnon(at)aol.com
In going through some of the previous posts to try to solve my reoccurring alternator problem Sam Buchanan (you out there somewhere) mentioned the wiring for using a Ford regulator was ---? I is not used---A goes to S---S goes to aircraft bus---F goes to alternator field.? I am going to connect the wire? from the alternator switch in the panel to S and jumper it to A and run the F terminal to field on the alternator.? My Transpo regulator had only three wires used, power from the panel switch, ground and field to the alternator, the fourth wire was not used. Am I reading Sam's post correctly, anyone else using the older Ford regulator with Van's 35 amp alternator?? Thanks in advance for any help. Larry Gagnon RV6? N6LG? 195 hours RV6A? N3158Y? 70 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ford regulator wiring
From: "khorton" <kevin01(at)kilohotel.com>
Date: Sep 03, 2009
I'm using a Ford voltage regulator, and it is wired as you describe. Works great. http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/gallery/Electrical_system_drawings/1_1_Main_Diagram?full=1 (http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/gallery/Electrical_system_drawings/1_1_Main_Diagram?full=1) -------- Kevin Horton RV-8 Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261222#261222 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2009
Subject: Re: emergency extrication
From: Matt Redmond <mdredmond(at)gmail.com>
Guys, This might be sheer fantasy, but I was thinking about the problem of getting the canopy open in flight and this occurred to me... Keep in mind that I'm early in my build (RV-9, undecided on canopy) so it's based only on casual observation of others' planes. I have no idea if it's technically feasible. Assuming you have a tip-up canopy and have the canopy remove/jettison handle installed (I assume this pulls the hinge pins) and the appropriate slots cut in your forward top fuselage skin... Then you reinforce an area of the forward canopy between the hinges and mount a device like this: http://www.cartactdev.com/thrusters.html with a decent throw (maybe 4-6") to the bulkhead that's up there. Rig it to the canopy release cable such that it fires only after the hinge pins are removed (say first 12" pulls the pins and it takes another 12" of pull to fire the piston). These things are capable of exerting 125-6000 psi depending on the model. The piston would whack the forward underside of the canopy and push it up into the slipstream, whereupon it would blow away (and/or decapitate you, depending on your luck). Any reason this couldn't work? Like I said, just daydreaming... Matt ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2009
From: Mike Divan <n343fd(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
:) Mike Divan N64GH - RV6 (flying) http://n64gh.blogspot.com/ FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS! Remember it is the Solder, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Cost Guard that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"! ________________________________ From: "Vanremog(at)aol.com" <Vanremog(at)aol.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 7:38:19 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. I agree for the most part but IMO those Cost (sic) Guard guys haven't been protecting the cost of my stocks very well lately. -N1GV In a message dated 9/1/2009 4:38:10 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, n343fd(at)yahoo.com writes: FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS! >Remember > it is the Solder, Sailor, Airman, > Marine and Cost Guard that > guarantee your freedom NOT the "community >organizer"! ________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)AOL.COM
Date: Sep 05, 2009
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
I like that Solder is helping out too! People, especially you wacky right wingers, learn to spell. -GV In a message dated 9/4/2009 7:23:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, n343fd(at)yahoo.com writes: :) Mike Divan N64GH - RV6 (flying) _http://n64gh.blogspot.com/_ (http://n64gh.blogspot.com/) FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS! Remember it is the Solder, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Cost Guard that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"! ____________________________________ From: "Vanremog(at)aol.com" <Vanremog(at)aol.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 7:38:19 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. I agree for the most part but IMO those Cost (sic) Guard guys haven't been protecting the cost of my stocks very well lately. -N1GV In a message dated 9/1/2009 4:38:10 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, n343fd(at)yahoo.com writes: FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS! Remember it is the Solder, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Cost Guard that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"! ____________________________________ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! =JulystepsfooterNO115) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2009
From: mark phipps <skydive80020(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Fw: High oil pressure indications
--- On Fri, 9/4/09, mark phipps wrote: From: mark phipps <skydive80020(at)yahoo.com> Subject: High oil pressure indications Date: Friday, September 4, 2009, 9:22 PM Since I finished my condition inspection 2 weeks ago I have flown 6 times. I an O320 with 240 hours and Grand Rapids engine monitor and EFIS. I have h ad a few instances of the oil pressure showing about 91 or 92 and alarming for about one minute, and then it goes down to the usual range around 60 to 65. During the last few flights it was around 86 to 88 during the first fe w muntes of flight and than back down to 65. Not sure if it is safe to fly or what the problem is. My guess is pressure sensor or relief valve. Any id eas. - Mark, RV6A, 240 hours - Recent Activity -1 New MembersVisit Your Group Yahoo! News Get it all here Breaking news to entertainment news Yahoo! Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. Group Charity Stop Cyberbullying Keep your kids safe from bullying . __,_._,___ =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "charlie heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: High oil pressure indications
Date: Sep 05, 2009
Maark, assuming you changed oil at the insp, did you pull the screen and check it? What oil you using? ----- Original Message ----- From: mark phipps To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 00:30 Subject: RV-List: Fw: High oil pressure indications --- On Fri, 9/4/09, mark phipps wrote: From: mark phipps <skydive80020(at)yahoo.com> Subject: High oil pressure indications To: lycoming(at)yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 4, 2009, 9:22 PM Since I finished my condition inspection 2 weeks ago I have flown 6 times. I an O320 with 240 hours and Grand Rapids engine monitor and EFIS. I have had a few instances of the oil pressure showing about 91 or 92 and alarming for about one minute, and then it goes down to the usual range around 60 to 65. During the last few flights it was around 86 to 88 during the first few muntes of flight and than back down to 65. Not sure if it is safe to fly or what the problem is. My guess is pressure sensor or relief valve. Any ideas. Mark, RV6A, 240 hours Recent Activity a.. 1New Members Visit Your Group Yahoo! News Get it all here Breaking news to entertainment news Yahoo! Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. Group Charity Stop Cyberbullying Keep your kids safe from bullying. __,_._,___ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2009
Subject: Re: Fw: High oil pressure indications
From: Dale Ellis <rv8builder.kd0m(at)gmail.com>
I have access to and fly a RV-6A with a O-320. Phillips X-C 20-50 oil is used. I have noticed that when oil is 'cold' and for the first few minutes of flight, the pressure is up to the 80-85 PSI range as you describe. When the oil temp gets to 180-190, then the pressure goes down to the 65 PSI range, again as you describe. All of these values are measured with Vans gauges (of unknown accuracy and pedigree!). I suspect that what your are seeing is normal. But this just one opinion!! Now please join me in my efforts to stomp out down aileron!! Dale On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 1:30 AM, mark phipps wrote: > > > --- On Fri, 9/4/09, mark phipps wrote: > > From: mark phipps <skydive80020(at)yahoo.com> > Subject: High oil pressure indications > To: lycoming(at)yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, September 4, 2009, 9:22 PM > > > Since I finished my condition inspection 2 weeks ago I have flown 6 times. I an O320 with 240 hours and Grand Rapids engine monitor and EFIS. I have had a few instances of the oil pressure showing about 91 or 92 and alarming for about one minute, and then it goes down to the usual range around 60 to 65. During the last few flights it was around 86 to 88 during the first few muntes of flight and than back down to 65. Not sure if it is safe to fly or what the problem is. My guess is pressure sensor or relief valve. Any ideas. > > Mark, RV6A, 240 hours > > > Recent Activity > > 1 > New Members > > Visit Your Group > Yahoo! News > Get it all here > Breaking news to > entertainment news > Yahoo! Finance > It's Now Personal > Guides, news, > advice & more. > Group Charity > Stop Cyberbullying > Keep your kids > safe from bullying > . > __,_._,___ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2009
From: Mike Divan <n343fd(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Blame the left wing school system I went to that thinks close is good enough and did not give out grades because it might make someone feel bad :( I think I spelled it correctly this time ;) Mike Divan N64GH - RV6 (flying) http://n64gh.blogspot.com/ FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN FIGHTING MAN FOR YOURS! Remember it is the Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Cost Guard that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"! ________________________________ From: "Vanremog(at)aol.com" <Vanremog(at)aol.com> Sent: Friday, September 4, 2009 10:00:02 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. I like that Solder is helping out too! People, especially you wacky right wingers, learn to spell. -GV In a message dated 9/4/2009 7:23:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, n343fd(at)yahoo.com writes: :) > > Mike Divan >N64GH - RV6 (flying) >http://n64gh.blogspot.com/ >FREEDOM IS NOT > FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS! >Remember it is the Solder, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Cost Guard that guarantee your freedom NOT > the "community organizer"! > > ________________________________ From: "Vanremog(at)aol.com" > >To: > rv-list(at)matronics.com >Sent: > Tuesday, September 1, 2009 7:38:19 PM >Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- > the rest of the story. > >I agree for the most part but IMO those Cost (sic) Guard guys haven't > been protecting the cost of my stocks very well lately. > >-N1GV > >In a message dated 9/1/2009 4:38:10 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > n343fd(at)yahoo.com writes: >FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR >> YOURS! >>Remember it is the Solder, Sailor, >> Airman, Marine and Cost Guard >> that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community >> organizer"! > > ________________________________ > > >=================================== >="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List=================================== >ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com >=================================== >tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=================================== > > ________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bret Smith" <smithhb(at)tds.net>
Subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Sep 05, 2009
Now you need to get rid of, or fix the Republican on the end... the Cost Guard. Bret Smith RV-9A N16BL Blue Ridge, Ga www.FlightInnovations.com <http://www.flightinnovations.com/> _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Divan Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:50 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. Blame the left wing school system I went to that thinks close is good enough and did not give out grades because it might make someone feel bad :( I think I spelled it correctly this time ;) Mike Divan N64GH - RV6 (flying) http://n64gh.blogspot.com/ FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN FIGHTING MAN FOR YOURS! Remember it is the Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Cost Guard that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"! _____ From: "Vanremog(at)aol.com" <Vanremog(at)aol.com> Sent: Friday, September 4, 2009 10:00:02 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. I like that Solder is helping out too! People, especially you wacky right wingers, learn to spell. -GV In a message dated 9/4/2009 7:23:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, n343fd(at)yahoo.com writes: :) Mike Divan N64GH - RV6 (flying) http://n64gh.blogspot.com/ FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS! Remember it is the Solder, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Cost Guard that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"! _____ From: "Vanremog(at)aol.com" <Vanremog(at)aol.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 7:38:19 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. I agree for the most part but IMO those Cost (sic) Guard guys haven't been protecting the cost of my stocks very well lately. -N1GV In a message dated 9/1/2009 4:38:10 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, n343fd(at)yahoo.com writes: FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS! Remember it is the Solder, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Cost Guard that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"! _____ =================================== ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List" <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Na vigator?RV-List==========================> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List================================ == ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com =================================== tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution= ================================= _____ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2009
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Heh, heh, heh.... You know, I almost feel sorry for you, Mike. Almost. I think you're trying to say that you think your spell checker spelled it correctly this time. :-) (It did, but the words were wrong.) Isn't it interesting that both the 'left wing pinko liberals' and the right wingnut 'conservatives' (and the rest of us, really) want to blame someone else for their problems, when ultimately we are each responsible for our own fate. You say that your problem is rooted in a 'left wing' school that didn't give grades. Really. The kids of people I know, and some of their parents, went to 'right wing' (read that 'private') schools that were created to keep 'em out of those 'left wing' schools (that admittedly, really were pretty bad). One of those schools is still in operation about 4 miles from my house. They have about 10 acres of immaculately groomed athletic fields, and their students have to share textbooks. There are people who graduated from that school who *can* spell (& have 'MD' after their names), & people who graduated from that school who can't even speak in complete sentences, much less spell the words. Here's what's really sad, and a little dangerous, about the quote in that signature. I suspect that you weren't the original author, since it's been forwarded with those same spelling errors all over the internet hundreds of thousands of times. It was written by someone who, at the very best, didn't bother to check his work for typos. It was read, and passed on as fact, by, at minimum, hundreds of thousands of others who didn't bother read & critically analyze what they read before passing it on as fact. If you look back in history, nothing good has ever come from large groups of people accepting without question the words of the individuals they look to as their leaders. I probably made twenty spelling errors & typos while typing this (hopefully all corrected), but I do try to critically analyze everything I read & hear, without regard to its wing of origin. Charlie Mike Divan wrote: > Blame the left wing school system I went to that thinks close is good > enough and did not give out grades because it might make someone feel > bad :( > > I think I spelled it correctly this time ;) > > > Mike Divan > N64GH - RV6 (flying) > http://n64gh.blogspot.com/ > FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN FIGHTING MAN FOR YOURS! > Remember it is the Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Cost Guard that > guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* "Vanremog(at)aol.com" > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Friday, September 4, 2009 10:00:02 PM > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. > > I like that Solder is helping out too! People, especially you wacky > right wingers, learn to spell. > > -GV > > In a message dated 9/4/2009 7:23:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > n343fd(at)yahoo.com writes: > > :) > > Mike Divan > N64GH - RV6 (flying) > http://n64gh.blogspot.com/ > FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS! > Remember it is the Solder, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Cost Guard > that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* "Vanremog(at)aol.com" > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 1, 2009 7:38:19 PM > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. > > I agree for the most part but IMO those Cost (sic) Guard guys > haven't been protecting the cost of my stocks very well lately. > > -N1GV > > In a message dated 9/1/2009 4:38:10 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > n343fd(at)yahoo.com writes: > > FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS! > Remember it is the Solder, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Cost > Guard that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"! > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2009
From: Mike Divan <n343fd(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Well at least I know I got my tail number spelled correctly and RV6 which for me is great. Any way time to go fly that RV and have some fun - keeping it RV related. It is all good and I enjoy the list and topics. Just not the occasional ... well I suppose we all put our foot in our mouth from time to time. Me probably more than most. Y'all enjoy the day and get in the air if ya can :) Mike Divan N64GH - RV6 (flying) http://n64gh.blogspot.com/ FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS! Remember it is the Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Coast Guard that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"! ________________________________ From: "Vanremog(at)aol.com" <Vanremog(at)aol.com> Sent: Friday, September 4, 2009 10:00:02 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. I like that Solder is helping out too! People, especially you wacky right wingers, learn to spell. -GV In a message dated 9/4/2009 7:23:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, n343fd(at)yahoo.com writes: :) > > Mike Divan >N64GH - RV6 (flying) >http://n64gh.blogspot.com/ >FREEDOM IS NOT > FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS! >Remember it is the Solder, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Cost Guard that guarantee your freedom NOT > the "community organizer"! > > ________________________________ From: "Vanremog(at)aol.com" > >To: > rv-list(at)matronics.com >Sent: > Tuesday, September 1, 2009 7:38:19 PM >Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- > the rest of the story. > >I agree for the most part but IMO those Cost (sic) Guard guys haven't > been protecting the cost of my stocks very well lately. > >-N1GV > >In a message dated 9/1/2009 4:38:10 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > n343fd(at)yahoo.com writes: >FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR >> YOURS! >>Remember it is the Solder, Sailor, >> Airman, Marine and Cost Guard >> that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community >> organizer"! > > ________________________________ > > >=================================== >="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List=================================== >ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com >=================================== >tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=================================== > > ________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2009
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: High oil pressure indications
Normal oil pressure range 65-85, idle 25 psi, I would rather see it closer to 80 than 65. Dale Ellis wrote: > > I have access to and fly a RV-6A with a O-320. Phillips X-C 20-50 oil > is used. I have noticed that when oil is 'cold' and for the first few > minutes of flight, the pressure is up to the 80-85 PSI range as you > describe. When the oil temp gets to 180-190, then the pressure goes > down to the 65 PSI range, again as you describe. All of these values > are measured with Vans gauges (of unknown accuracy and pedigree!). I > suspect that what your are seeing is normal. But this just one > opinion!! > > Now please join me in my efforts to stomp out down aileron!! > > Dale > > On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 1:30 AM, mark phipps wrote: > >> --- On Fri, 9/4/09, mark phipps wrote: >> >> From: mark phipps <skydive80020(at)yahoo.com> >> Subject: High oil pressure indications >> To: lycoming(at)yahoogroups.com >> Date: Friday, September 4, 2009, 9:22 PM >> >> >> Since I finished my condition inspection 2 weeks ago I have flown 6 times. I an O320 with 240 hours and Grand Rapids engine monitor and EFIS. I have had a few instances of the oil pressure showing about 91 or 92 and alarming for about one minute, and then it goes down to the usual range around 60 to 65. During the last few flights it was around 86 to 88 during the first few muntes of flight and than back down to 65. Not sure if it is safe to fly or what the problem is. My guess is pressure sensor or relief valve. Any ideas. >> >> Mark, RV6A, 240 hours >> >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Colm O'Reilly" <colm.oreilly(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: High oil pressure indications
Date: Sep 05, 2009
Are you spending enough time warming up before takeoff ? On Sep 5, 2009, at 11:21 AM, Jerry Springer wrote: > > Normal oil pressure range 65-85, idle 25 psi, I would rather see it > closer to 80 than 65. > > > Dale Ellis wrote: >> >> I have access to and fly a RV-6A with a O-320. Phillips X-C 20-50 >> oil >> is used. I have noticed that when oil is 'cold' and for the first >> few >> minutes of flight, the pressure is up to the 80-85 PSI range as you >> describe. When the oil temp gets to 180-190, then the pressure goes >> down to the 65 PSI range, again as you describe. All of these values >> are measured with Vans gauges (of unknown accuracy and pedigree!). I >> suspect that what your are seeing is normal. But this just one >> opinion!! >> >> Now please join me in my efforts to stomp out down aileron!! >> >> Dale >> >> On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 1:30 AM, mark phipps >> wrote: >> >>> --- On Fri, 9/4/09, mark phipps wrote: >>> >>> From: mark phipps <skydive80020(at)yahoo.com> >>> Subject: High oil pressure indications >>> To: lycoming(at)yahoogroups.com >>> Date: Friday, September 4, 2009, 9:22 PM >>> >>> >>> Since I finished my condition inspection 2 weeks ago I have flown >>> 6 times. I an O320 with 240 hours and Grand Rapids engine monitor >>> and EFIS. I have had a few instances of the oil pressure showing >>> about 91 or 92 and alarming for about one minute, and then it goes >>> down to the usual range around 60 to 65. During the last few >>> flights it was around 86 to 88 during the first few muntes of >>> flight and than back down to 65. Not sure if it is safe to fly or >>> what the problem is. My guess is pressure sensor or relief valve. >>> Any ideas. >>> >>> Mark, RV6A, 240 hours >>> >>> >>> >>> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph Finch" <rgf(at)dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Solder, etc. Was: Loop problem
Date: Sep 05, 2009
Ha ha. Actually it's true: Solder: used for the LED position lights in my RV, to keep me free from collisions at night. Sailor: several of them sent my RV kit to the Philippine Islands and brought it back as a QB, giving me more free time. Airman (and Airwoman): Over the years these professional flyers instructed and taught me the freedom of flight. Cost Guard: My good wife guards our family's costs! But I disagree about the community organizer not helping with freedom. Our RV community is the better for organizers like Matt Dralle, Doug Reeves, and the many local RVator chapter officers. Thank your god or gods for those countless organizers of our many communities! Ralph Finch Davis, CA RV-9A QB-SA > Remember it is the Solder, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Cost Guard that guarantee > your freedom NOT the "community organizer"! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2009
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Was going to post the email that Ralph thought fit to send to me in private email but thought better of it so as not to offend any woman or kids that might read this list. A lot of my old list friends are gone because of people like Ralph and RV6ator and their narrow minded opinions and filty worded text messages and no tolerance for people that think different than they do. Just to bad that people like Ralph are such cowards that they well not say in public what they feel must be said in private. Have not been on this list as long as some but have been here longer than most. Its not fun anymore and as the group of RV builders get larger seem the mentality of builders.....well never mind. See ya all later. Bye Jerry Springer first flight RV-6 July 14, 1989 Second customer built RV-6 to take to the skies ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2009
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Just for the rcord
*_IT WAS NOT_* Ralph E. Capen That sent me the email ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Just for the rcord
Date: Sep 05, 2009
Thanks Jerry! Don't know what fray I didn't get in to - but it sounds like I'm glad I didn't. Ralph E. Capen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Springer" <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net> Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 6:15 PM Subject: RV-List: Just for the rcord > > > *_IT WAS NOT_* > > > Ralph E. Capen > > > That sent me the email > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Sep 05, 2009
Yes, Jerry, it makes you and I smokin' each other seem kind of innocent and uplifting now, doesn't it? Some of those 4,000 hours (or was it 40,000?) that the guy spent flying would have been better spent in an etiquette class with heavy emphasis on grammar appropriate to the setting. What bugged me most about that little episode of low-life diatribe was that it was directed at someone who has been particularly willing to help out anyone who asked for help AND that it totally missed the carefully defined point that was being made. No wonder thoughtful people think twice before posting now. Can you imagine a gentleman like the late Eustace Bowhay participating in the same conversation? I don't suppose it really matters now, but I am quite sure I read in his autobiography that Bob Hoover taught himself aerobatics. That doesn't mean that I could or should or would, but it does mean that some far better pilots that the Ultimate Authority with the Limited Vocabulary (UALV) have decided for themselves contrary to UALV'S edict. Terry -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Springer Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 2:47 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. Was going to post the email that Ralph thought fit to send to me in private email but thought better of it so as not to offend any woman or kids that might read this list. A lot of my old list friends are gone because of people like Ralph and RV6ator and their narrow minded opinions and filty worded text messages and no tolerance for people that think different than they do. Just to bad that people like Ralph are such cowards that they well not say in public what they feel must be said in private. Have not been on this list as long as some but have been here longer than most. Its not fun anymore and as the group of RV builders get larger seem the mentality of builders.....well never mind. See ya all later. Bye Jerry Springer first flight RV-6 July 14, 1989 Second customer built RV-6 to take to the skies ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2009
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
It would appear that Bob Hoover got his aerobatic training via the military: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Hoover Bob Hoover learned to fly at Nashville's Berry Field while working at a local grocery store to pay for the flight training.[1] He enlisted in the Tennessee National Guard and was sent for pilot training with the Army.[2] He was sent to Casablanca where his first major assignment of the war was test flying the assembled aircraft ready for service. Terry Watson wrote: > I don't suppose it really matters now, but I am quite sure I read in his > autobiography that Bob Hoover taught himself aerobatics. That doesn't mean > that I could or should or would, but it does mean that some far better > pilots that the Ultimate Authority with the Limited Vocabulary (UALV) have > decided for themselves contrary to UALV'S edict. > > Terry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Sep 05, 2009
Sorry to see you go, Jerry. I've valued your viewpoint and input (even when I didn't necessarily agree on occasional points) - But, having been on the list since 1992 or so, I agree that many of the gentlemen who knew how to civilly disagree have since departed the list. Now we have one less. Good fortunate and fly safe. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Springer Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 5:47 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. Was going to post the email that Ralph thought fit to send to me in private email but thought better of it so as not to offend any woman or kids that might read this list. A lot of my old list friends are gone because of people like Ralph and RV6ator and their narrow minded opinions and filty worded text messages and no tolerance for people that think different than they do. Just to bad that people like Ralph are such cowards that they well not say in public what they feel must be said in private. Have not been on this list as long as some but have been here longer than most. Its not fun anymore and as the group of RV builders get larger seem the mentality of builders.....well never mind. See ya all later. Bye Jerry Springer first flight RV-6 July 14, 1989 Second customer built RV-6 to take to the skies __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RV-8 Part # F-601Y
Dear Listers, On Drawing 60 of the RV-8 plans, there is a part called out numbered "F-601Y" which appears to be an angle of some sort about 2" long. It seems to be used to hold the hinge pins for the rear, upper cowling. Other than a reference to it on Drawing 60 where its simply shown as a dotted drawing for positional reference, I can't seem to find where it is shown in 3D for fabrication nor can I find it among my pre-punched bits and pieces. Am I just not seeing the 3D drawing for some reason?? Thanks! Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle Cowling's Almost Done! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2009
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
From: Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Ed, Looks like since Oct, 1997: http://bit.ly/2WarDq And I've been on since July of the same year: http://bit.ly/1lRacl Ah, the memories... Time flies! -- Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 8:16 PM, Ed Anderson wrote: > > Sorry to see you go, Jerry. I've valued your viewpoint and input (even > when > I didn't necessarily agree on occasional points) - But, having been on the > list since 1992 or so, I agree that many of the gentlemen who knew how to > civilly disagree have since departed the list. Now we have one less. > > Good fortunate and fly safe. > > Ed > > Ed Anderson > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > Matthews, NC > > eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com > > http://www.andersonee.com > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html > > http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW > > http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Springer > Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 5:47 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. > > > Was going to post the email that Ralph thought fit to send to me in > private email but thought better of it so as not to offend > any woman or kids that might read this list. > A lot of my old list friends are gone because of people like Ralph and > RV6ator and their narrow minded opinions and filty worded text messages > and no > tolerance for people that think different than they do. Just to bad that > people like Ralph are such cowards that they well not say in public > what they feel must be said in private. > > Have not been on this list as long as some but have been here longer > than most. Its not fun anymore and as the group > of RV builders get larger seem the mentality of builders.....well never > mind. > See ya all later. > > Bye > > Jerry Springer > first flight RV-6 July 14, 1989 > Second customer built RV-6 to take to the skies > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2009
From: Mike Divan <n343fd(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Solder, etc. Was: Loop problem
Wow who knew my bad spelling would be so entertaining :)=0A=0AOn the flying side I had a great flight in my RV today. Someone needed a lift from Fallb rook (L18) to Camerrio (KCMA) and without a doubt I spelled it wrong. So I took off from KCCB for a nice flight to L18 picked him up and headed over t o the coast. A real nice and SMOOTH flight at 2500 all the way up the coast to just north of Long Beach where we headed inland to go the class Brovo o n the Mini Rout (Probabily spelled that wrong also) and on up to KCMA. A BE AUTIFUL flight and all the So Cal Controllers were great. After a ok landin g at KCMA I hade a wonderful tri tip sammy then back in the air for the tri p back to KCCB. I skerted the southern edge of the TFR for the "Station" fi re and boy-o-boy did it get close to some of the houses in my former first in area WOW. A nice landing at KCCB stoped to talk to some of the RV dudes and finished up finding a buyer for my ole turn and bank - how cool it that !=0A=0AAll in all a wonderful day of flying.=0A=0AI LOVE MY RV6! and I aint going to use spell check ;)=0A=0A Mike Divan=0AN64GH - RV6 (flying) =0Ahtt p://n64gh.blogspot.com/=0AFREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS!=0ARemember it is the Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Coast G uard that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"!=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Ralph Finch <rgf(at)dcn.davis.c a.us>=0ATo: rv-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, September 5, 2009 9:49: 07 AM=0ASubject: RV-List: Solder, etc. Was: Loop problem=0A=0A =0AHa ha. A ctuallyit=99s true:=0A =0ASolder:=0Aused for the LED position lights in my RV, to keep me free from collisions at=0Anight.=0ASailor:=0Aseveral o f them sent my RV kit to the Philippine Islands and brought it back as=0Aa QB, giving me more free time.=0AAirman=0A(and Airwoman): Over the years the se professional flyers instructed and taught=0Ame the freedom of flight.=0A Cost=0AGuard: My good wife guards our family=99s costs!=0A =0ABut=0AI disagree about the community organizer not helping with freedom. Our RV =0Acommunity is the better for organizers like Matt Dralle, Doug Reeves, an d the=0Amany local RVator chapter officers. Thank your god or gods for tho se=0Acountless organizers of our many communities!=0A =0ARalph=0AFinch=0ADa vis,=0ACA=0ARV-9A=0AQB-SA=0A =0A> Remember it is the Solder,=0A>Sailor, Air man, Marine and Cost Guard that guarantee > your freedom NOT the=0A>"commun ======================0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Sep 05, 2009
Kelly, I think we are both right. Here are a couple of quotes out of Bob Hoover's "Forever Flying": "... I also read a remarkable book by an aviator named Bernie Ley, with whom I became good friends many years later. The book introduced me to the world of aerobatics. It detailed the aerodynamics involved and how each routine was performed with precision timing. I studied the maneuvers until I knew every one by heart." That was when he was 15. A little later in the book, just after solo at age 16 in a Piper Cub, he says: "To lick the motion sickness, I pushed myself to the limit by doing wingovers and stalls and spins. Every time I found I could handle one maneuver, I went on to the next one until I conquered the airsickness. Each time it got easier, and finally I could perform all the routine without much discomfort. I didn't have aerobatic training, but I had read about and memorized how to execute the maneuvers." A bit of an aside here: I was in a tent at the Arlington (WA) air show one year, buying this book from Bob Hoover while a Harmon Rocket pilot from British Columbia was performing his routine. The announcer was filling all the voids between the engine noise with his prattle, and I heard him say that the plane was a modification of one of Richard VanGrunsven's designs, and the Van himself was the smoothest pilot this announcer had ever seen. I was watching Bob Hoover sign my book at that moment and remember thinking that that was indeed a great compliment to Van in the presence of this man. When I went through USAF pilot training in the mid-60's, some of my classmates were already quite accomplished pilots. All of the German Luftwaffe students were glider pilots and the one German Navy pilot in our class already had his wings. One of the American students was an experienced crop duster from Idaho and I think most of us had at least a private pilot rating. But a highlight of the training for me was the aerobatics in first the T-37 and then the T-38. From the testimony of one of his instructors in this book, Bob Hoover was doing most of the teaching on his dual aerobatic flights in Army Air Corps pilot training. Here's something else from Bob Hoover's book that RV builders might enjoy: ... but back then [1940] people taught themselves to fly. They could buy what would be known now as kit planes, assemble them, learn to fly, and solo in a month..... they just winged it and used trial and error until they soloed and got their license." Bob Hoover is the only military student pilot I have ever heard of who was asked to perform an air show for his own graduating class. OK, that's enough. It is an entertaining and inspiring book. Terry -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 5:19 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. It would appear that Bob Hoover got his aerobatic training via the military: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Hoover Bob Hoover learned to fly at Nashville's Berry Field while working at a local grocery store to pay for the flight training.[1] He enlisted in the Tennessee National Guard and was sent for pilot training with the Army.[2] He was sent to Casablanca where his first major assignment of the war was test flying the assembled aircraft ready for service. Terry Watson wrote: > I don't suppose it really matters now, but I am quite sure I read in his > autobiography that Bob Hoover taught himself aerobatics. That doesn't mean > that I could or should or would, but it does mean that some far better > pilots that the Ultimate Authority with the Limited Vocabulary (UALV) have > decided for themselves contrary to UALV'S edict. > > Terry ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
From: Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au>
Date: Sep 06, 2009
I certainly hope not! Take stock Jerry - don't drop off the 'list for the sake of some half witted comments and language from someone so disrespectful as to post without at least understanding the culture of the group. There have been many who have come and gone in the time I have been monitoring the rv-list (also around '97) mostly because they have not appreciated the real value of what is on offer. Let them go their own ways. I have flirted with other discussion groups - many have been hijacked by the low life fringe and died. I do hope the stalwarts will remain - I intend to. Best regards to all, Doug Gray Sydney, Australia RV-6 wheel fairings.... > > Was going to post the email that Ralph thought fit to send to me in > private email but thought better of it so as not to offend > any woman or kids that might read this list. > A lot of my old list friends are gone because of people like Ralph and > RV6ator and their narrow minded opinions and filty worded text messages > and no > tolerance for people that think different than they do. Just to bad that > people like Ralph are such cowards that they well not say in public > what they feel must be said in private. > > Have not been on this list as long as some but have been here longer > than most. Its not fun anymore and as the group > of RV builders get larger seem the mentality of builders.....well never > mind. > See ya all later. > > Bye > > Jerry Springer > first flight RV-6 July 14, 1989 > Second customer built RV-6 to take to the skies > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Sep 06, 2009
Gee time flies when you're having fun. Ok Oct 1997 vice 1992. 1992 was when I started building and I flew in 1998 so sure seemed like I was on the list for most of the building time asking questions - but, the records apparently indicate otherwise. Thanks Larry Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com <http://www.andersonee.com> http://www.andersonee.com <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ <http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Bowen Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 11:14 PM Subject: Re: Another gone was RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. Ed, Looks like since Oct, 1997: http://bit.ly/2WarDq And I've been on since July of the same year: http://bit.ly/1lRacl Ah, the memories... Time flies! -- Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 8:16 PM, Ed Anderson wrote: Sorry to see you go, Jerry. I've valued your viewpoint and input (even when I didn't necessarily agree on occasional points) - But, having been on the list since 1992 or so, I agree that many of the gentlemen who knew how to civilly disagree have since departed the list. Now we have one less. Good fortunate and fly safe. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Springer Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 5:47 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. Was going to post the email that Ralph thought fit to send to me in private email but thought better of it so as not to offend any woman or kids that might read this list. A lot of my old list friends are gone because of people like Ralph and RV6ator and their narrow minded opinions and filty worded text messages and no tolerance for people that think different than they do. Just to bad that people like Ralph are such cowards that they well not say in public what they feel must be said in private. Have not been on this list as long as some but have been here longer than most. Its not fun anymore and as the group of RV builders get larger seem the mentality of builders.....well never mind. See ya all later. Bye Jerry Springer first flight RV-6 July 14, 1989 Second customer built RV-6 to take to the skies __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. ========== get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "charlie heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject: list losses
Date: Sep 06, 2009
Who would have thought aslking for advice on doing a loop would lead to this? I used to be on the cherokee list and that guy who rips off the flying comuity with his power flow exaust was often the target of some flack, from me as well. no one dropped of because of it and should be the same here. I would hate to think I didnt have this to turn to when I need advice. I have sure gotten a lot of help. I usually use only the digest, with is easy to skim thru and pick out what I need, but I can tolorate some childish diatribe now and then, much easier when Im relaxing at the computer with a jug of morphine :-) Charlie Heathco ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2009
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
From: Larry Mac Donald <lm4(at)juno.com>
Jerry, I wish you would stay on the list. I've been on the list since abiut 1903AD and you have been very consistant and to the point. Be it RVs, FAA or aviation politics. Your posts ,to me, have most often been insiteful and helpful. People like RV6ator may just be having a bad day, or a triple low, but we usually ignor them and they straighten up or go away. In this case he attacked "Das Fed" and of course that is a no no. He will know better next time. Stick around. You never know what will be said next. Larry Mac Donald Mgr. D-91 writes: > > > Sorry to see you go, Jerry. I've valued your viewpoint and input > (even when > I didn't necessarily agree on occasional points) - But, having been > on the > list since 1992 or so, I agree that many of the gentlemen who knew > how to > civilly disagree have since departed the list. Now we have one > less. > > Good fortunate and fly safe. > > Ed > > Ed Anderson > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > Matthews, NC > > eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com > > http://www.andersonee.com > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html > > http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW > > http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry > Springer > Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 5:47 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. > > > Was going to post the email that Ralph thought fit to send to me in > > private email but thought better of it so as not to offend > any woman or kids that might read this list. > A lot of my old list friends are gone because of people like Ralph > and > RV6ator and their narrow minded opinions and filty worded text > messages > and no > tolerance for people that think different than they do. Just to bad > that > people like Ralph are such cowards that they well not say in > public > what they feel must be said in private. > > Have not been on this list as long as some but have been here longer > > than most. Its not fun anymore and as the group > of RV builders get larger seem the mentality of builders.....well > never > mind. > See ya all later. > > ye > > Jerry Springer > first flight RV-6 July 14, 1989 > Second customer built RV-6 to take to the skies > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ Health Insurance Deals Get free online quotes on self employed health insurance - Save 30%! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=5j-MI1bPP2HBqR-nf0nRTAAAJ1DOX6m7NtFYSFKPhB8gxgzbAAQAAAAFAAAAAIuZmj4AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGMpAAAAAA= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Chris Brooks <brooksrv6(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Silver Bullet steering link
Date: Sep 06, 2009
Does anyone know if Dave Czachorowski aka Rivethead/Full Throttle Concepts is still in business? I ordered the steering link just over 2 months ago th ru his website. He hasn't responded to any of my Email=2C or voicemail inqu iries. I'm having trouble getting the steering link or a refund. Chris Brooks RV6 _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL :ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph Finch" <rgf(at)dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: It was a frickin joke!!
Date: Sep 06, 2009
> To me, the success of lists like this (and any other discussion) depends > on the participants trying not to make it personal and *never* take > anything personally. > Charlie Amen, and amen. Now, can we get back to aeroplanes? Please? Ralph Finch Davis, California RV-9A QB-SA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Yeah, hey Jerry, you're gonna hurt my feelings if you leave the List! You're one of the few Listers from nearly the beginning. I would consider it a personal favor if you stuck around and continued to provide us with your sage advise: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_sage_advice_mean I want you to stay too... Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle At 06:32 AM 9/6/2009 Sunday, you wrote: > >Jerry, > I wish you would stay on the list. >I've been on the list since abiut 1903AD and you have been very >consistant and to the point. Be it RVs, FAA or aviation politics. Your >posts ,to me, have most often been insiteful and helpful. People like >RV6ator may just be having a bad day, or a triple low, but we usually >ignor them and they straighten up or go away. In this case he attacked >"Das Fed" and of course that is a no no. He will know better next time. >Stick around. You never know what will be said next. > Larry Mac Donald > Mgr. D-91 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Colm O'Reilly" <colm.oreilly(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Sep 06, 2009
As a relative newcomer, I too would really appreciate it if you could stay Jerry. On Sep 6, 2009, at 12:44 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > Yeah, hey Jerry, you're gonna hurt my feelings if you leave the > List! You're one of the few Listers from nearly the beginning. I > would consider it a personal favor if you stuck around and continued > to provide us with your sage advise: > > http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_sage_advice_mean > > I want you to stay too... > > Matt Dralle > RV-8 #82880 N998RV > http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle > > > At 06:32 AM 9/6/2009 Sunday, you wrote: >> >> Jerry, >> I wish you would stay on the list. >> I've been on the list since abiut 1903AD and you have been very >> consistant and to the point. Be it RVs, FAA or aviation politics. >> Your >> posts ,to me, have most often been insiteful and helpful. People like >> RV6ator may just be having a bad day, or a triple low, but we usually >> ignor them and they straighten up or go away. In this case he >> attacked >> "Das Fed" and of course that is a no no. He will know better next >> time. >> Stick around. You never know what will be said next. >> Larry Mac Donald >> Mgr. D-91 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2009
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
From: Matt Redmond <mdredmond(at)gmail.com>
Please take no offense, boys, because I'm as up for a political argument/discussion as anyone, being the proud right-wing wackjob that I am... but... I think Doug Reeves has the right idea when it comes to his board, and that is: can we please leave the political discussions somewhere else? Seriously, I might think you're a complete communist pinko idiot, but that doesn't mean I can't learn something RV-related from you - or vice-versa (unlikely) - and I'd hate to see otherwise friendly relationships crapped up because of this sh!t. ...or maybe I'm being a pollyanna (but at least I've got my AR-15(s)). Matt ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2009
From: Scott <acepilot(at)bloomer.net>
Subject: If it makes anybody feel better....
I flew for 1.7 hours today and that makes 7.2 since LAST Sunday. The RV isn't done yet, but the Corben isn't jealous! ;) We've had FABULOUS weather up here in Wisconsin for at least the last 10 days and a few more expected. I can't remember EVER having this many supreme days in a row!!! Makes it hard to build ;) -- Scott http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ Flying Corben Junior Ace - Building RV-4 Gotta Fly or Gonna Die ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2009
Subject: At long last, First Flight.
From: Tracy Crook <tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com>
Today there was nothing left to do on the Mazda 20B powered RV-8 but flight test it. For those of you not familiar with the rotary engine, The 20B is a 3 rotor version of the 13B which powered the Mazda RX-7. The 20B makes about 300 HP in normally aspirated form. (it was turbocharged in the Japanese car it came from (never sold in the US). I've been flying an RV-4 with the Mazda 13B two rotor engine for 15 years, 1850 hrs. TT. Very hot day (93 F and high humidity) but ground tests of the cooling system had gone so well that I was confident of cooling in flight. Installed the radio and transponder in the panel (which for some reason I had neglected to do until this morning) and they both worked with no problems, which is always a surprise. High speed taxi tests had already been completed and the P-factor was no worse than the RV-4, in fact I think it has less. This may be premature because I haven't done a full throttle takeoff yet. The RV-8 has 1.25 degrees right offset which I think helps a lot. The RV-4 has no offset. First flight was done without wheel pants or main gear intersection fairings. Just to make sure there were no surprises, takeoff was done at the same fuel flow as the RV-4 at WOT. I didn't note the manifold pressure but the throttle quadrant was barely over 1/2 throttle. Ground run on the -8 feels more stable than the -4 with considerably more rudder authority (it's physically bigger so no surprise). The plane broke ground at about the same point as the -4 but it feels like it levitates off rather than rotates off. Probably due to the higher wing incidence on the ground than the -4 with the short gear legs but also due to the longer wing. I had extended both wings by about 18" so the wing loading and span loading are less than on the -4. It has about 13% more wing area than stock. This was actually the second time the -8 had air under the tires since it had floated off ground about a foot once before during a high speed taxi test. Airspeed was increasing rapidly after lift off but the ASI was not matching the visual ques. Normally I expect to see 120 mph at the end of the runway (2700 ft) but ASI shows only 80. Too late to abort but the airplane is climbing & sounding very nice. I had been doing a lot of seat-of-the pants takeoff and simulated dead stick landings (in the -4) in anticipation of today's tests so I would feel comfortable in the event of partial or complete panel failure (Blue Mountain EFIS1 with only a standard ASI for backup). Climb to 1000 feet felt effortless even after throttling back to 8 GPH. I notice that I'm hunting for information and not absorbing much due to the very different instrument panel. Remembering that the EFIS1 has the primary ASI in a speed ribbon format, I hunt for it and see 0 MPH when I finally find it. The EM2 (an RWS engine monitor with backup ASI, VSI & Altitude) shows the same airspeed as the Van's steam gauge, now about 100 MPH. First squawk of the flight and this means I will do the first landing sans airspeed indicator. I can't seem to locate the GPS ground speed on the display either. Glad I did all that practice. Time to settle in and start evaluating engine performance. I had taken off with the engine fairly warm so I was not surprised to see oil & water temps nearing 190 F after climbout. I continue collecting data hoping the temps will start coming down but it is soon apparent that they are stabilizing at about 200 on both oil and coolant. Very disappointing, since they had been well below this on the ground when at the same fuel flow I was currently flying at (I had backed it down to 5.75 gph by this time). The plane itself is flying beautifully. The aileron trim is able to trim out a very slight left wing heavy tendency and the ship feels like it is gliding through the air effortlessly. Again, no surprise, the plane feels just like an RV (Magnificent!). At this speed (guessing about 135 mph) the roll response is only slightly slower than the -4. The ailerons were extended with the wing so the RV feel has been preserved. I've completed a wide circuit of the pattern and in position to make an approach so I throttle back and I can immediately tell that the glide ratio is significantly higher than the -4. The longer wing is having more effect than I thought it would even with the heavier engine. This -8 with a 20B ended up weighing about 70 pounds more than the average one equipped with an 0 - 360 and fixed pitch prop and about the same as one equipped with an IO - 360 with constant speed prop. Empty weight (but with oil) is 1150 lbs. All the attention to weight control has paid off. I throttle up for a go around and the FBW throttle responds well, no detectable throttle lag at all. The higher than expected oil and water temps are distracting me from data gathering (Rats, I haven't had time to replace the EM2 with a data logging EM3 yet) so I make a few more circuits of the field and setup for an approach. I crank in more flaps early to kill off the airspeed and excess glide ratio and intentionally do not look at the ASI to avoid being confused. Wheel landing touchdown is perfect and now I glance at the ASI and see 40 MPH. Obviously wrong. All in all, a great first flight. The RV-8 is going to be exactly the airplane I was hoping for. Still a lot of testing and tweaking to do. Tracy Crook ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2009
From: scott bilinski <rv8a2001(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: transition training
Fried of mine needs transition training in town, please contact me. Scott Bilinski RV-8a cell 858-395-5094 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "c172.58(at)juno.com" <c172.58(at)juno.com>
Date: Sep 07, 2009
Subject: Vetterman Exhaust Hangars
Does any one have some photos of how the Vetterman exhaust hangars fit o n a RV-7 IO-360 standard 4-pipe installation? The instructions seem to indicate that you can either attach the hangars to the rear of the sump or to the engine mount. It sounds like you're supposed to keep the clam ps on the exhaust as far aft as possible. If you do that, it doesn't ap per that the hangar rods are long enough if you want to hook them to the sump? What have othesr done here? Thanks for any help. RV-7 963P FWF ____________________________________________________________ Online Fashon Degrees Start earning an online fashion degree from the Art Institutes http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=lT9EA4kmgEZAh7VFdsCwXwAA Jz3OX6m7NtFYSFKPhB8gxgzbAAQAAAAFAAAAAARWTj4AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAFRE3AAAAAA= ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2009
Subject: Re: At long last, First Flight.
From: Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Congrats Tracy! -- Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 9:44 PM, Tracy Crook wrote: > Today there was nothing left to do on the Mazda 20B powered RV-8 but > flight test it. > > For those of you not familiar with the rotary engine, The 20B is a 3 > rotor version of the 13B which powered the Mazda RX-7. The 20B makes about > 300 HP in normally aspirated form. (it was turbocharged in the Japanese car > it came from (never sold in the US). I've been flying an RV-4 with the > Mazda 13B two rotor engine for 15 years, 1850 hrs. TT. > > Very hot day (93 F and high humidity) but ground tests of the cooling > system had gone so well that I was confident of cooling in flight. > Installed the radio and transponder in the panel (which for some reason I > had neglected to do until this morning) and they both worked with no > problems, which is always a surprise. > > High speed taxi tests had already been completed and the P-factor was no > worse than the RV-4, in fact I think it has less. This may be premature > because I haven't done a full throttle takeoff yet. The RV-8 has 1.25 > degrees right offset which I think helps a lot. The RV-4 has no offset. > First flight was done without wheel pants or main gear intersection > fairings. > > Just to make sure there were no surprises, takeoff was done at the same > fuel flow as the RV-4 at WOT. I didn't note the manifold pressure but the > throttle quadrant was barely over 1/2 throttle. Ground run on the -8 feels > more stable than the -4 with considerably more rudder authority (it's > physically bigger so no surprise). The plane broke ground at about the > same point as the -4 but it feels like it levitates off rather than rotates > off. Probably due to the higher wing incidence on the ground than the -4 > with the short gear legs but also due to the longer wing. I had extended > both wings by about 18" so the wing loading and span loading are less than > on the -4. It has about 13% more wing area than stock. This was actually > the second time the -8 had air under the tires since it had floated off > ground about a foot once before during a high speed taxi test. > > Airspeed was increasing rapidly after lift off but the ASI was not matching > the visual ques. Normally I expect to see 120 mph at the end of the runway > (2700 ft) but ASI shows only 80. Too late to abort but the airplane is > climbing & sounding very nice. I had been doing a lot of seat-of-the pants > takeoff and simulated dead stick landings (in the -4) in anticipation of > today's tests so I would feel comfortable in the event of partial or > complete panel failure (Blue Mountain EFIS1 with only a standard ASI for > backup). Climb to 1000 feet felt effortless even after throttling back to 8 > GPH. I notice that I'm hunting for information and not absorbing much due > to the very different instrument panel. Remembering that the EFIS1 has the > primary ASI in a speed ribbon format, I hunt for it and see 0 MPH when I > finally find it. The EM2 (an RWS engine monitor with backup ASI, VSI & > Altitude) shows the same airspeed as the Van's steam gauge, now about 100 > MPH. First squawk of the flight and this means I will do the first landing > sans airspeed indicator. I can't seem to locate the GPS ground speed on the > display either. Glad I did all that practice. > > Time to settle in and start evaluating engine performance. I had taken off > with the engine fairly warm so I was not surprised to see oil & water temps > nearing 190 F after climbout. I continue collecting data hoping the temps > will start coming down but it is soon apparent that they are stabilizing at > about 200 on both oil and coolant. Very disappointing, since they had been > well below this on the ground when at the same fuel flow I was currently > flying at (I had backed it down to 5.75 gph by this time). > > The plane itself is flying beautifully. The aileron trim is able to trim > out a very slight left wing heavy tendency and the ship feels like it is > gliding through the air effortlessly. Again, no surprise, the plane feels > just like an RV (Magnificent!). At this speed (guessing about 135 mph) the > roll response is only slightly slower than the -4. The ailerons were > extended with the wing so the RV feel has been preserved. I've completed a > wide circuit of the pattern and in position to make an approach so I > throttle back and I can immediately tell that the glide ratio is > significantly higher than the -4. The longer wing is having more effect > than I thought it would even with the heavier engine. This -8 with a 20B > ended up weighing about 70 pounds more than the average one equipped with an > 0 - 360 and fixed pitch prop and about the same as one equipped with an IO - > 360 with constant speed prop. Empty weight (but with oil) is 1150 lbs. All > the attention to weight control has paid off. I throttle up for a go around > and the FBW throttle responds well, no detectable throttle lag at all. > > The higher than expected oil and water temps are distracting me from data > gathering (Rats, I haven't had time to replace the EM2 with a data logging > EM3 yet) so I make a few more circuits of the field and setup for an > approach. I crank in more flaps early to kill off the airspeed and excess > glide ratio and intentionally do not look at the ASI to avoid being > confused. Wheel landing touchdown is perfect and now I glance at the ASI > and see 40 MPH. Obviously wrong. > > All in all, a great first flight. The RV-8 is going to be exactly the > airplane I was hoping for. Still a lot of testing and tweaking to do. > > Tracy Crook > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2009
From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)newwavecomm.net>
Subject: Re: Vetterman Exhaust Hangars
Do not attach them to the engine mount. They need to be attached to the engine, the exhaust has to move with the engine, I don't have pictures available but I'm sure someone does. ---- Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY Check out the latest on my website at: http://home.newwavecomm.net/bobbyhester/2009AugDecFlying.htm c172.58(at)juno.com wrote: > > Does any one have some photos of how the Vetterman exhaust hangars fit > on a RV-7 IO-360 standard 4-pipe installation? The instructions seem > to indicate that you can either attach the hangars to the rear of the > sump or to the engine mount. It sounds like you're supposed to keep > the clamps on the exhaust as far aft as possible. If you do that, it > doesn't apper that the hangar rods are long enough if you want to hook > them to the sump? What have othesr done here? > > Thanks for any help. > RV-7 963P FWF > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Online Fashon Degrees > Start earning an online fashion degree from the Art Institutes > <http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2132/c?cp=lT9EA4kmgEZAh7VFdsCwXwAAJz3OX6m7NtFYSFKPhB8gxgzbAAQAAAAFAAAAAARWTj4AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAFRE3AAAAAA==> > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2009
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Matt Redmond wrote: > Please take no offense, boys, because I'm as up for a political > argument/discussion as anyone, being the proud right-wing wackjob that > I am... but... > > I think Doug Reeves has the right idea when it comes to his board, and > that is: can we please leave the political discussions somewhere > else? Seriously, I might think you're a complete communist pinko > idiot, but that doesn't mean I can't learn something RV-related from > you - or vice-versa (unlikely) - and I'd hate to see otherwise > friendly relationships crapped up because of this sh!t. ...or maybe > I'm being a pollyanna (but at least I've got my AR-15(s)). > > Matt Having cyber-lived in both worlds (Matt's & Doug's), I strongly prefer Matt's. Doug's VAF limits discussions to RV's *only* when the non-RV (read that 'political') posts disagree with the so-called moderators' opinions. That forum is highly censored, and with very obvious political bias. I've personally pointed out the biased censorship in direct emails to Doug on numerous occasions. The 1st time, he responded & said that if there were non-RV comments being allowed, he was unaware of them & would personally correct them, and to please report any in the future. Repeated followup emails to Doug reporting new occurrences have resulted in zero responses. The biased censorship continues. You can often see a biased post that leans one way (allowed) followed by a contrary response. Within hours (or minutes), the contrary post disappears. The original will remain. Only Doug and his censors know how many posts bearing contrary opinions never even make it to the public forum. If we were talking about government, it would be downright Orwellian. In my not so humble opinion, suppression of alternate political viewpoints is a very ugly thing, & contrary to the spirit at the heart of this country's greatness. I'd like to believe that we can not only learn about RV's from someone with a different political viewpoint, but that we can learn about alternative political views, as well. Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John" <Jdaniel343(at)bresnan.net>
Subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Sep 06, 2009
Jerry, Please don't leave. I too have been on the list since 1996. I visited Jerry in 1998 and was privileged to have a ride and get to fly his plane. You won't find a nicer person. There will always be some jerk on this list bad mouthing another. Just the way the world is. Most of us ignore these folks. I've always enjoyed Jerry's comments and keen insight into our problems. Please stay with us Jerry John Danielson -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Colm O'Reilly Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 11:10 AM Subject: Re: Another gone was RV-List: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. As a relative newcomer, I too would really appreciate it if you could stay Jerry. On Sep 6, 2009, at 12:44 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > Yeah, hey Jerry, you're gonna hurt my feelings if you leave the > List! You're one of the few Listers from nearly the beginning. I > would consider it a personal favor if you stuck around and continued > to provide us with your sage advise: > > http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_sage_advice_mean > > I want you to stay too... > > Matt Dralle > RV-8 #82880 N998RV > http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle > > > At 06:32 AM 9/6/2009 Sunday, you wrote: >> >> Jerry, >> I wish you would stay on the list. >> I've been on the list since abiut 1903AD and you have been very >> consistant and to the point. Be it RVs, FAA or aviation politics. >> Your >> posts ,to me, have most often been insiteful and helpful. People like >> RV6ator may just be having a bad day, or a triple low, but we usually >> ignor them and they straighten up or go away. In this case he >> attacked >> "Das Fed" and of course that is a no no. He will know better next >> time. >> Stick around. You never know what will be said next. >> Larry Mac Donald >> Mgr. D-91 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Hand propping a fuel injected 320 - possible?
From: Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au>
Date: Sep 07, 2009
Folks, I am considering converting my O-320 to an IO-320 with the Precision system and had a thought about hand starting - perhaps it is not possible to swing the prop for a start like one can with a carby. I expect the most likely reason to swing the prop is a flat battery - in which case priming would not be possible so my gut feeling is that it would be next to impossible to make an engine start under these circumstances. Any advice? We have many very isolated airfields in this country and being stranded can be a major risk. Doug Gray Sydney, Australia ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Sep 07, 2009
Hi Jerry, Seems the peasants getting to ya a bit? I try to remember the good folks when the not as good ones get in the way. Unfortunately sometimes we do have to work hard at it. If you must leave go, go off the list remembering the good stuff we all have shared. That's what really matters when all is said and done. Its been some years since meeting you at Arlington and having the pleasure of sharing smiles. I think my first postings where in 97. I still monitor the lists some these days. In any case you won't be forgotten in this corner of the web. Great flights and greased landings Jerry, Jim in Kelowna Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (6.0.0.19 - 10.004.084). http://www.pctools.com/free-antivirus/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: At long last, First Flight.
Date: Sep 07, 2009
On 6-Sep-09, at 21:44 , Tracy Crook wrote: > Today there was nothing left to do on the Mazda 20B powered RV-8 > but flight test it. A very hearty congratulations Tracy!! I've always had a soft spot for the Mazda rotaries, and I really appreciate the pragmatic approach you take to your development. Good luck. Fly safe, -- Kevin Horton RV-8 Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Hand propping a fuel injected 320 - possible?
Date: Sep 07, 2009
IF you can PRIME the system=2C it should be just as easy to start. The car b has fuel in the float bowl and pulling the blade through gets the air fue l mixture into the cylinder to be ignited when you switch the mag on. As l ong as you can run the fuel pump to get fuel in the system to the injectors =2C it will hand prop just as easy as the carb. No fuel to the injectors =2C no start. I have helped hand prop a FI 360 (180 HP) once so know it can be down. The 360 is much harder to hand prop than the 320. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell=2C 2=2C296+ Flying Hours So. CA=2C USA > Subject: RV-List: Hand propping a fuel injected 320 - possible? > From: dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Mon=2C 7 Sep 2009 16:45:32 +1000 > > > > Folks=2C > > I am considering converting my O-320 to an IO-320 with the Precision > system and had a thought about hand starting - perhaps it is not > possible to swing the prop for a start like one can with a carby. > > I expect the most likely reason to swing the prop is a flat battery - in > which case priming would not be possible so my gut feeling is that it > would be next to impossible to make an engine start under these > circumstances. > > Any advice? > > We have many very isolated airfields in this country and being stranded > can be a major risk. > > Doug Gray > Sydney=2C > Australia > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL :ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Neal George" <n8zg(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Hand propping a fuel injected 320 - possible?
Date: Sep 07, 2009
Doug - Unless it's completely dead, a battery that won't turn the engine over probably has enough residual energy to run the fuel pump for priming. Or you could provide for a connection directly to the fuel pump for a small emergency battery. An 8-slot AA-size battery holder from your local Radio Shack-equivalent connected directly to the pump should be more than adequate for priming (and serves double duty as neat, secure storage for the extra batteries for your hand-held radio and flashlight). neal =================== Folks, I am considering converting my O-320 to an IO-320 with the Precision system and had a thought about hand starting - perhaps it is not possible to swing the prop for a start like one can with a carby. I expect the most likely reason to swing the prop is a flat battery - in which case priming would not be possible so my gut feeling is that it would be next to impossible to make an engine start under these circumstances. Any advice? We have many very isolated airfields in this country and being stranded can be a major risk. Doug Gray Sydney, Australia ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "charlie heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: At long last, First Flight.
Date: Sep 07, 2009
Congrats on first flight. Im curious about taking off with 1/2 thotle? Is this something common to the rotary? Re "hight temps" 200 deg on oil is not a problem with Lyc's, and seems car engine temps on coolant run that high or even higher? Charlie H ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracy Crook To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 20:44 Subject: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Today there was nothing left to do on the Mazda 20B powered RV-8 but flight test it. For those of you not familiar with the rotary engine, The 20B is a 3 rotor version of the 13B which powered the Mazda RX-7. The 20B makes about 300 HP in normally aspirated form. (it was turbocharged in the Japanese car it came from (never sold in the US). I've been flying an RV-4 with the Mazda 13B two rotor engine for 15 years, 1850 hrs. TT. Very hot day (93 F and high humidity) but ground tests of the cooling system had gone so well that I was confident of cooling in flight. Installed the radio and transponder in the panel (which for some reason I had neglected to do until this morning) and they both worked with no problems, which is always a surprise. High speed taxi tests had already been completed and the P-factor was no worse than the RV-4, in fact I think it has less. This may be premature because I haven't done a full throttle takeoff yet. The RV-8 has 1.25 degrees right offset which I think helps a lot. The RV-4 has no offset. First flight was done without wheel pants or main gear intersection fairings. Just to make sure there were no surprises, takeoff was done at the same fuel flow as the RV-4 at WOT. I didn't note the manifold pressure but the throttle quadrant was barely over 1/2 throttle. Ground run on the -8 feels more stable than the -4 with considerably more rudder authority (it's physically bigger so no surprise). The plane broke ground at about the same point as the -4 but it feels like it levitates off rather than rotates off. Probably due to the higher wing incidence on the ground than the -4 with the short gear legs but also due to the longer wing. I had extended both wings by about 18" so the wing loading and span loading are less than on the -4. It has about 13% more wing area than stock. This was actually the second time the -8 had air under the tires since it had floated off ground about a foot once before during a high speed taxi test. Airspeed was increasing rapidly after lift off but the ASI was not matching the visual ques. Normally I expect to see 120 mph at the end of the runway (2700 ft) but ASI shows only 80. Too late to abort but the airplane is climbing & sounding very nice. I had been doing a lot of seat-of-the pants takeoff and simulated dead stick landings (in the -4) in anticipation of today's tests so I would feel comfortable in the event of partial or complete panel failure (Blue Mountain EFIS1 with only a standard ASI for backup). Climb to 1000 feet felt effortless even after throttling back to 8 GPH. I notice that I'm hunting for information and not absorbing much due to the very different instrument panel. Remembering that the EFIS1 has the primary ASI in a speed ribbon format, I hunt for it and see 0 MPH when I finally find it. The EM2 (an RWS engine monitor with backup ASI, VSI & Altitude) shows the same airspeed as the Van's steam gauge, now about 100 MPH. First squawk of the flight and this means I will do the first landing sans airspeed indicator. I can't seem to locate the GPS ground speed on the display either. Glad I did all that practice. Time to settle in and start evaluating engine performance. I had taken off with the engine fairly warm so I was not surprised to see oil & water temps nearing 190 F after climbout. I continue collecting data hoping the temps will start coming down but it is soon apparent that they are stabilizing at about 200 on both oil and coolant. Very disappointing, since they had been well below this on the ground when at the same fuel flow I was currently flying at (I had backed it down to 5.75 gph by this time). The plane itself is flying beautifully. The aileron trim is able to trim out a very slight left wing heavy tendency and the ship feels like it is gliding through the air effortlessly. Again, no surprise, the plane feels just like an RV (Magnificent!). At this speed (guessing about 135 mph) the roll response is only slightly slower than the -4. The ailerons were extended with the wing so the RV feel has been preserved. I've completed a wide circuit of the pattern and in position to make an approach so I throttle back and I can immediately tell that the glide ratio is significantly higher than the -4. The longer wing is having more effect than I thought it would even with the heavier engine. This -8 with a 20B ended up weighing about 70 pounds more than the average one equipped with an 0 - 360 and fixed pitch prop and about the same as one equipped with an IO - 360 with constant speed prop. Empty weight (but with oil) is 1150 lbs. All the attention to weight control has paid off. I throttle up for a go around and the FBW throttle responds well, no detectable throttle lag at all. The higher than expected oil and water temps are distracting me from data gathering (Rats, I haven't had time to replace the EM2 with a data logging EM3 yet) so I make a few more circuits of the field and setup for an approach. I crank in more flaps early to kill off the airspeed and excess glide ratio and intentionally do not look at the ASI to avoid being confused. Wheel landing touchdown is perfect and now I glance at the ASI and see 40 MPH. Obviously wrong. All in all, a great first flight. The RV-8 is going to be exactly the airplane I was hoping for. Still a lot of testing and tweaking to do. Tracy Crook ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Trim for level flight
Date: Sep 07, 2009
Folks, I'm at just under 31 hours in my flight testing and have been getting things set up for hands-off and autopilot flying. I got the hands off part finished and found that I need a little up-trim to mainatain altitude - the left/right part is fine with zeroe'd roll trim and will allow for some fuel difference in the tanks before it tries to roll in any direction. Similarly, when I'm running the autopilot, it'll fly straight and level forever - so I zeroe'd out the elevator trim and turned off the autopilot - and got the expected descent - until I added back the up-trim. Leads me to think that my Horizontal Stabilizer needs to have its angle of attack lowered a little bit. My CG is in the forward part of the range but not waay forward. I'm going to try it with the CG a little farther aft and see what happens. The airframe is still 'dirty' as I haven't added leg fairings or covered the mainwheels - the nosewheel is covered per Vans requirements. It will trim for a climb or descent as desired - but will always descend if I zero out the elevator trim. What do you folks think? Meanwhile, what a wonderful machine! Thanks, Ralph N822AR @ N06 - just under 31 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 07, 2009
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Trim for level flight
Before you spend the time changing the incidence in the tail, I'd make sure that it's really out ..... and not a CG thing. Do your test at varying airspeeds to see if you need to tweak the tail. My Traumahawk will trim lock to lock from low speed to high .... so I know it's out of whack. Linn Ralph E. Capen wrote: > Folks, > > I'm at just under 31 hours in my flight testing and have been getting > things set up for hands-off and autopilot flying. I got the hands off > part finished and found that I need a little up-trim to mainatain > altitude - the left/right part is fine with zeroe'd roll trim and will > allow for some fuel difference in the tanks before it tries to roll in > any direction. Similarly, when I'm running the autopilot, it'll fly > straight and level forever - so I zeroe'd out the elevator trim and > turned off the autopilot - and got the expected descent - until I added > back the up-trim. > > Leads me to think that my Horizontal Stabilizer needs to have its angle > of attack lowered a little bit. > > My CG is in the forward part of the range but not waay forward. I'm > going to try it with the CG a little farther aft and see what happens. > The airframe is still 'dirty' as I haven't added leg fairings or covered > the mainwheels - the nosewheel is covered per Vans requirements. > > It will trim for a climb or descent as desired - but will always descend > if I zero out the elevator trim. > > What do you folks think? > > Meanwhile, what a wonderful machine! > > Thanks, > Ralph > N822AR @ N06 - just under 31 hours > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Trim for level flight
Date: Sep 07, 2009
Good point - I'll try it at different airspeeds and valid CG configurations before I monkey with it...... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linn Walters" <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 8:35 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Trim for level flight > > Before you spend the time changing the incidence in the tail, I'd make > sure that it's really out ..... and not a CG thing. Do your test at > varying airspeeds to see if you need to tweak the tail. My Traumahawk > will trim lock to lock from low speed to high .... so I know it's out of > whack. > Linn > > Ralph E. Capen wrote: >> Folks, >> I'm at just under 31 hours in my flight testing and have been getting >> things set up for hands-off and autopilot flying. I got the hands off >> part finished and found that I need a little up-trim to mainatain >> altitude - the left/right part is fine with zeroe'd roll trim and will >> allow for some fuel difference in the tanks before it tries to roll in >> any direction. Similarly, when I'm running the autopilot, it'll fly >> straight and level forever - so I zeroe'd out the elevator trim and >> turned off the autopilot - and got the expected descent - until I added >> back the up-trim. >> Leads me to think that my Horizontal Stabilizer needs to have its angle >> of attack lowered a little bit. >> My CG is in the forward part of the range but not waay forward. I'm >> going to try it with the CG a little farther aft and see what happens. >> The airframe is still 'dirty' as I haven't added leg fairings or covered >> the mainwheels - the nosewheel is covered per Vans requirements. >> It will trim for a climb or descent as desired - but will always descend >> if I zero out the elevator trim. >> What do you folks think? >> Meanwhile, what a wonderful machine! >> Thanks, >> Ralph >> N822AR @ N06 - just under 31 hours >> >> * >> >> >> * > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 07, 2009
Subject: Re: At long last, First Flight.
From: Ollie Washburn <ollies7s(at)gmail.com>
Congratulations Tracy, been a long wait. Hope to see the plane at Loves b-que first Sat in Nov. Ollie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 07, 2009
Subject: Re: At long last, First Flight.
From: Tracy Crook <tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com>
Thanks Charlie. The 'half throttle takeoff' was mainly a reaction to what happened in a previous test flight in my RV-4. I had changed the gear reduction drive to a higher ratio and installed a much longer prop turning the opposite direction. The higher ratio allowed the rotary to get further into its power band so I had significantly more power at takeoff ( running fixed pitch prop). Between the increased and opposite direction P factor, I almost crashed into the fence next to the runway on takeoff (cleared it by inches). I learned to feed throttle in gradually rather than firewalling it immediately as I had done in the past. That was with a 200 HP engine so I was a little paranoid with 300 HP on tap. On the -8 I also fed throttle gradually but stopped when the fuel flow reached the same rate as the smaller engine at WOT in the -4 . Assuming all other things being equal, a big engine will burn about the same amount of fuel as a small one when making the same power. That was the goal on this first takeoff. I'll explore the extra 100 HP later. On rotary engines it is important to measure oil temperature after the oil cooler just before it enters the engine because the rotors are 100% cooled by oil flow. It is mainly an O-ring in the oil control rings that get damaged by high oil temps. Not catastrophic but high oil consumption results and requires a complete teardown to replace the O-rings. Rotors have combustion chambers on three faces and they don't get a whole revolution just to cool off like a piston does. But on the other hand they are made of iron instead of aluminum. The oil temps are typically 40 degrees higher in the pan prior to going through the cooler. I'm guessing Lyc's oil temp is measured in the pan. On a 'perfect' rotary cooling system, we'd like to see 180 F on both oil and coolant. Tracy Crook On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 7:41 AM, charlie heathco wrote: > Congrats on first flight. Im curious about taking off with 1/2 thotle? Is > this something common to the rotary? Re "hight temps" 200 deg on oil is not > a problem with Lyc's, and seems car engine temps on coolant run that high or > even higher? Charlie H > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Tracy Crook > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Sunday, September 06, 2009 20:44 > *Subject:* RV-List: At long last, First Flight. > > Today there was nothing left to do on the Mazda 20B powered RV-8 but > flight test it. > > For those of you not familiar with the rotary engine, The 20B is a 3 > rotor version of the 13B which powered the Mazda RX-7. The 20B makes about > 300 HP in normally aspirated form. (it was turbocharged in the Japanese car > it came from (never sold in the US). I've been flying an RV-4 with the > Mazda 13B two rotor engine for 15 years, 1850 hrs. TT. > > Very hot day (93 F and high humidity) but ground tests of the cooling > system had gone so well that I was confident of cooling in flight. > Installed the radio and transponder in the panel (which for some reason I > had neglected to do until this morning) and they both worked with no > problems, which is always a surprise. > > High speed taxi tests had already been completed and the P-factor was no > worse than the RV-4, in fact I think it has less. This may be premature > because I haven't done a full throttle takeoff yet. The RV-8 has 1.25 > degrees right offset which I think helps a lot. The RV-4 has no offset. > First flight was done without wheel pants or main gear intersection > fairings. > > Just to make sure there were no surprises, takeoff was done at the same > fuel flow as the RV-4 at WOT. I didn't note the manifold pressure but the > throttle quadrant was barely over 1/2 throttle. Ground run on the -8 feels > more stable than the -4 with considerably more rudder authority (it's > physically bigger so no surprise). The plane broke ground at about the > same point as the -4 but it feels like it levitates off rather than rotates > off. Probably due to the higher wing incidence on the ground than the -4 > with the short gear legs but also due to the longer wing. I had extended > both wings by about 18" so the wing loading and span loading are less than > on the -4. It has about 13% more wing area than stock. This was actually > the second time the -8 had air under the tires since it had floated off > ground about a foot once before during a high speed taxi test. > > Airspeed was increasing rapidly after lift off but the ASI was not matching > the visual ques. Normally I expect to see 120 mph at the end of the runway > (2700 ft) but ASI shows only 80. Too late to abort but the airplane is > climbing & sounding very nice. I had been doing a lot of seat-of-the pants > takeoff and simulated dead stick landings (in the -4) in anticipation of > today's tests so I would feel comfortable in the event of partial or > complete panel failure (Blue Mountain EFIS1 with only a standard ASI for > backup). Climb to 1000 feet felt effortless even after throttling back to 8 > GPH. I notice that I'm hunting for information and not absorbing much due > to the very different instrument panel. Remembering that the EFIS1 has the > primary ASI in a speed ribbon format, I hunt for it and see 0 MPH when I > finally find it. The EM2 (an RWS engine monitor with backup ASI, VSI & > Altitude) shows the same airspeed as the Van's steam gauge, now about 100 > MPH. First squawk of the flight and this means I will do the first landing > sans airspeed indicator. I can't seem to locate the GPS ground speed on the > display either. Glad I did all that practice. > > Time to settle in and start evaluating engine performance. I had taken off > with the engine fairly warm so I was not surprised to see oil & water temps > nearing 190 F after climbout. I continue collecting data hoping the temps > will start coming down but it is soon apparent that they are stabilizing at > about 200 on both oil and coolant. Very disappointing, since they had been > well below this on the ground when at the same fuel flow I was currently > flying at (I had backed it down to 5.75 gph by this time). > > The plane itself is flying beautifully. The aileron trim is able to trim > out a very slight left wing heavy tendency and the ship feels like it is > gliding through the air effortlessly. Again, no surprise, the plane feels > just like an RV (Magnificent!). At this speed (guessing about 135 mph) the > roll response is only slightly slower than the -4. The ailerons were > extended with the wing so the RV feel has been preserved. I've completed a > wide circuit of the pattern and in position to make an approach so I > throttle back and I can immediately tell that the glide ratio is > significantly higher than the -4. The longer wing is having more effect > than I thought it would even with the heavier engine. This -8 with a 20B > ended up weighing about 70 pounds more than the average one equipped with an > 0 - 360 and fixed pitch prop and about the same as one equipped with an IO - > 360 with constant speed prop. Empty weight (but with oil) is 1150 lbs. All > the attention to weight control has paid off. I throttle up for a go around > and the FBW throttle responds well, no detectable throttle lag at all. > > The higher than expected oil and water temps are distracting me from data > gathering (Rats, I haven't had time to replace the EM2 with a data logging > EM3 yet) so I make a few more circuits of the field and setup for an > approach. I crank in more flaps early to kill off the airspeed and excess > glide ratio and intentionally do not look at the ASI to avoid being > confused. Wheel landing touchdown is perfect and now I glance at the ASI > and see 40 MPH. Obviously wrong. > > All in all, a great first flight. The RV-8 is going to be exactly the > airplane I was hoping for. Still a lot of testing and tweaking to do. > > Tracy Crook > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Charles Rowbotham <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: At long last, First Flight.
Date: Sep 07, 2009
Hi Tracy=2C Great to hear you both in the Air ! CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!! Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A sold Dave's building RV-9A Date: Sun=2C 6 Sep 2009 21:44:58 -0400 Subject: RV-List: At long last=2C First Flight. From: tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com Today there was nothing left to do on the Mazda 20B powered RV-8 but fligh t test it. For those of you not familiar with the rotary engine=2C The 20B is a 3 ro tor version of the 13B which powered the Mazda RX-7. The 20B makes about 3 00 HP in normally aspirated form. (it was turbocharged in the Japanese car it came from (never sold in the US). I've been flying an RV-4 with the Ma zda 13B two rotor engine for 15 years=2C 1850 hrs. TT. Very hot day (93 F and high humidity) but ground tests of the cooling syst em had gone so well that I was confident of cooling in flight. Installed the radio and transponder in the panel (which for some reason I had neglect ed to do until this morning) and they both worked with no problems=2C which is always a surprise. High speed taxi tests had already been completed and the P-factor was no wo rse than the RV-4=2C in fact I think it has less. This may be premature be cause I haven't done a full throttle takeoff yet. The RV-8 has 1.25 degree s right offset which I think helps a lot. The RV-4 has no offset. First f light was done without wheel pants or main gear intersection fairings. Just to make sure there were no surprises=2C takeoff was done at the same f uel flow as the RV-4 at WOT. I didn't note the manifold pressure but the t hrottle quadrant was barely over 1/2 throttle. Ground run on the -8 feels more stable than the -4 with considerably more rudder authority (it's physi cally bigger so no surprise). The plane broke ground at about the same po int as the -4 but it feels like it levitates off rather than rotates off. Probably due to the higher wing incidence on the ground than the -4 with th e short gear legs but also due to the longer wing. I had extended both win gs by about 18" so the wing loading and span loading are less than on the - 4. It has about 13% more wing area than stock. This was actually the sec ond time the -8 had air under the tires since it had floated off ground abo ut a foot once before during a high speed taxi test. Airspeed was increasing rapidly after lift off but the ASI was not matching the visual ques. Normally I expect to see 120 mph at the end of the runw ay (2700 ft) but ASI shows only 80. Too late to abort but the airplane is c limbing & sounding very nice. I had been doing a lot of seat-of-the pants takeoff and simulated dead stick landings (in the -4) in anticipation of t oday's tests so I would feel comfortable in the event of partial or complet e panel failure (Blue Mountain EFIS1 with only a standard ASI for backup). Climb to 1000 feet felt effortless even after throttling back to 8 GPH. I notice that I'm hunting for information and not absorbing much due to the very different instrument panel. Remembering that the EFIS1 has the prim ary ASI in a speed ribbon format=2C I hunt for it and see 0 MPH when I fina lly find it. The EM2 (an RWS engine monitor with backup ASI=2C VSI & Altit ude) shows the same airspeed as the Van's steam gauge=2C now about 100 MPH. First squawk of the flight and this means I will do the first landing san s airspeed indicator. I can't seem to locate the GPS ground speed on the d isplay either. Glad I did all that practice. Time to settle in and start evaluating engine performance. I had taken off with the engine fairly warm so I was not surprised to see oil & water temp s nearing 190 F after climbout. I continue collecting data hoping the tem ps will start coming down but it is soon apparent that they are stabilizing at about 200 on both oil and coolant. Very disappointing=2C since they h ad been well below this on the ground when at the same fuel flow I was curr ently flying at (I had backed it down to 5.75 gph by this time). The plane itself is flying beautifully. The aileron trim is able to trim o ut a very slight left wing heavy tendency and the ship feels like it is gli ding through the air effortlessly. Again=2C no surprise=2C the plane feels just like an RV (Magnificent!). At this speed (guessing about 135 mph) th e roll response is only slightly slower than the -4. The ailerons were ex tended with the wing so the RV feel has been preserved. I've completed a w ide circuit of the pattern and in position to make an approach so I throttl e back and I can immediately tell that the glide ratio is significantly hig her than the -4. The longer wing is having more effect than I thought it would even with the heavier engine. This -8 with a 20B ended up weighing a bout 70 pounds more than the average one equipped with an 0 - 360 and fixed pitch prop and about the same as one equipped with an IO - 360 with consta nt speed prop. Empty weight (but with oil) is 1150 lbs. All the attention to weight control has paid off. I throttle up for a go around and the FBW throttle responds well=2C no detectable throttle lag at all. The higher than expected oil and water temps are distracting me from data g athering (Rats=2C I haven't had time to replace the EM2 with a data logging EM3 yet) so I make a few more circuits of the field and setup for an appro ach. I crank in more flaps early to kill off the airspeed and excess glide ratio and intentionally do not look at the ASI to avoid being confused. W heel landing touchdown is perfect and now I glance at the ASI and see 40 MP H. Obviously wrong. All in all=2C a great first flight. The RV-8 is going to be exactly the ai rplane I was hoping for. Still a lot of testing and tweaking to do. Tracy Crook _________________________________________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYC B_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Trim for level flight
Date: Sep 07, 2009
On 2009-09-07, at 7:56 AM, "Ralph E. Capen" wrote: > Folks, > > I'm at just under 31 hours in my flight testing and have been > getting things set up for hands-off and autopilot flying. I got the > hands off part finished and found that I need a little up-trim to > mainatain altitude - the left/right part is fine with zeroe'd roll > trim and will allow for some fuel difference in the tanks before it > tries to roll in any direction. Similarly, when I'm running the > autopilot, it'll fly straight and level forever - so I zeroe'd out > the elevator trim and turned off the autopilot - and got the > expected descent - until I added back the up-trim. > > Leads me to think that my Horizontal Stabilizer needs to have its > angle of attack lowered a little bit. > > My CG is in the forward part of the range but not waay forward. I'm > going to try it with the CG a little farther aft and see what > happens. The airframe is still 'dirty' as I haven't added leg > fairings or covered the mainwheels - the nosewheel is covered per > Vans requirements. > > It will trim for a climb or descent as desired - but will always > descend if I zero out the elevator trim. > I wouldn't worry about this until you have all the fairings on. The aircraft will be faster, and you need to trim more nose down as the speed increases. Kevin Horton ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 07, 2009
From: "J. Mcculley" <mcculleyja(at)starpower.net>
Subject: Re: Trim for level flight
When you eventually add gear and wheel fairings you will see much less up-trim needed due to less drag from the current pitch-down drag of gear. May even reverse the trim needed. Jim McCulley =================================================================================== Ralph E. Capen wrote: > Folks, > > I'm at just under 31 hours in my flight testing and have been getting > things set up for hands-off and autopilot flying. I got the hands off > part finished and found that I need a little up-trim to mainatain > altitude - the left/right part is fine with zeroe'd roll trim and will > allow for some fuel difference in the tanks before it tries to roll in > any direction. Similarly, when I'm running the autopilot, it'll fly > straight and level forever - so I zeroe'd out the elevator trim and > turned off the autopilot - and got the expected descent - until I added > back the up-trim. > > Leads me to think that my Horizontal Stabilizer needs to have its angle > of attack lowered a little bit. > > My CG is in the forward part of the range but not waay forward. I'm > going to try it with the CG a little farther aft and see what happens. > The airframe is still 'dirty' as I haven't added leg fairings or covered > the mainwheels - the nosewheel is covered per Vans requirements. > > It will trim for a climb or descent as desired - but will always descend > if I zero out the elevator trim. > > What do you folks think? > > Meanwhile, what a wonderful machine! > > Thanks, > Ralph > N822AR @ N06 - just under 31 hours > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 07, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Vetterman Exhaust Hangars
I have the 4-into-4 Vetterman exhaust on my RV-8. The instructions stated to mount the hangers to the engine mount. Here are some pictures of my installation. There might be more options on the RV-7, don't know. Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle At 08:15 PM 9/6/2009 Sunday, you wrote: >Do not attach them to the engine mount. They need to be attached to the engine, the exhaust has to move with the engine, I don't have pictures available but I'm sure someone does. > > >c172.58(at)juno.com wrote: >> >>Does any one have some photos of how the Vetterman exhaust hangars fit on a RV-7 IO-360 standard 4-pipe installation? The instructions seem to indicate that you can either attach the hangars to the rear of the sump or to the engine mount. It sounds like you're supposed to keep the clamps on the exhaust as far aft as possible. If you do that, it doesn't apper that the hangar rods are long enough if you want to hook them to the sump? What have othesr done here? >> >>Thanks for any help. >>RV-7 963P FWF ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Sep 07, 2009
I agree with Charlie's comments. One time I made a very mild comment on a political diatribe that was raging on Doug's site. I was immediately slapped hard, and publicly, on the forum by one of the moderators who had been engaging in the political argument himself. He had taken my comment to disagree with his position. (not quite sure how he determined that either!) Since I enjoy and participate in both forums, I learned the lesson that keeping out of the political jousting matches that pop up on both forums, is right for me. Matt's suggestion that we take the political debate to some other site is a good one. There are plenty of them out there! David Maib 40559 Flying On Sep 6, 2009, at 11:50 PM, Charlie England wrote: > > > Matt Redmond wrote: >> Please take no offense, boys, because I'm as up for a political >> argument/discussion as anyone, being the proud right-wing wackjob >> that I am... but... >> I think Doug Reeves has the right idea when it comes to his >> board, and that is: can we please leave the political discussions >> somewhere else? Seriously, I might think you're a complete >> communist pinko idiot, but that doesn't mean I can't learn >> something RV-related from you - or vice-versa (unlikely) - and I'd >> hate to see otherwise friendly relationships crapped up because of >> this sh!t. ...or maybe I'm being a pollyanna (but at least I've >> got my AR-15(s)). >> Matt > > Having cyber-lived in both worlds (Matt's & Doug's), I strongly > prefer Matt's. > > Doug's VAF limits discussions to RV's *only* when the non-RV (read > that 'political') posts disagree with the so-called moderators' > opinions. That forum is highly censored, and with very obvious > political bias. I've personally pointed out the biased censorship > in direct emails to Doug on numerous occasions. The 1st time, he > responded & said that if there were non-RV comments being allowed, > he was unaware of them & would personally correct them, and to > please report any in the future. Repeated followup emails to Doug > reporting new occurrences have resulted in zero responses. The > biased censorship continues. You can often see a biased post that > leans one way (allowed) followed by a contrary response. Within > hours (or minutes), the contrary post disappears. The original will > remain. Only Doug and his censors know how many posts bearing > contrary opinions never even make it to the public forum. If we > were talking about government, it would be downright Orwellian. > > In my not so humble opinion, suppression of alternate political > viewpoints is a very ugly thing, & contrary to the spirit at the > heart of this country's greatness. > > I'd like to believe that we can not only learn about RV's from > someone with a different political viewpoint, but that we can learn > about alternative political views, as well. > > Charlie > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: Oshkosh 09 video
Date: Sep 07, 2009
Someone sent me this link to a great Oshkosh 2009 (yea, I know - Air Venture 2009). It's got RV's in it and everything else it would seem. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKU0uQki5Dc Terry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Huft" <rv8tor(at)lazy8.net>
Subject: At long last, First Flight.
Date: Sep 07, 2009
Tracy, very nice! I am looking forward to more results as you chase the bugs out. There is a lot of potential in your project. John Huft From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 7:45 PM Subject: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Today there was nothing left to do on the Mazda 20B powered RV-8 but flight test it. For those of you not familiar with the rotary engine, The 20B is a 3 rotor version of the 13B which powered the Mazda RX-7. The 20B makes about 300 HP in normally aspirated form. (it was turbocharged in the Japanese car it came from (never sold in the US). I've been flying an RV-4 with the Mazda 13B two rotor engine for 15 years, 1850 hrs. TT. Very hot day (93 F and high humidity) but ground tests of the cooling system had gone so well that I was confident of cooling in flight. Installed the radio and transponder in the panel (which for some reason I had neglected to do until this morning) and they both worked with no problems, which is always a surprise. High speed taxi tests had already been completed and the P-factor was no worse than the RV-4, in fact I think it has less. This may be premature because I haven't done a full throttle takeoff yet. The RV-8 has 1.25 degrees right offset which I think helps a lot. The RV-4 has no offset. First flight was done without wheel pants or main gear intersection fairings. Just to make sure there were no surprises, takeoff was done at the same fuel flow as the RV-4 at WOT. I didn't note the manifold pressure but the throttle quadrant was barely over 1/2 throttle. Ground run on the -8 feels more stable than the -4 with considerably more rudder authority (it's physically bigger so no surprise). The plane broke ground at about the same point as the -4 but it feels like it levitates off rather than rotates off. Probably due to the higher wing incidence on the ground than the -4 with the short gear legs but also due to the longer wing. I had extended both wings by about 18" so the wing loading and span loading are less than on the -4. It has about 13% more wing area than stock. This was actually the second time the -8 had air under the tires since it had floated off ground about a foot once before during a high speed taxi test. Airspeed was increasing rapidly after lift off but the ASI was not matching the visual ques. Normally I expect to see 120 mph at the end of the runway (2700 ft) but ASI shows only 80. Too late to abort but the airplane is climbing & sounding very nice. I had been doing a lot of seat-of-the pants takeoff and simulated dead stick landings (in the -4) in anticipation of today's tests so I would feel comfortable in the event of partial or complete panel failure (Blue Mountain EFIS1 with only a standard ASI for backup). Climb to 1000 feet felt effortless even after throttling back to 8 GPH. I notice that I'm hunting for information and not absorbing much due to the very different instrument panel. Remembering that the EFIS1 has the primary ASI in a speed ribbon format, I hunt for it and see 0 MPH when I finally find it. The EM2 (an RWS engine monitor with backup ASI, VSI & Altitude) shows the same airspeed as the Van's steam gauge, now about 100 MPH. First squawk of the flight and this means I will do the first landing sans airspeed indicator. I can't seem to locate the GPS ground speed on the display either. Glad I did all that practice. Time to settle in and start evaluating engine performance. I had taken off with the engine fairly warm so I was not surprised to see oil & water temps nearing 190 F after climbout. I continue collecting data hoping the temps will start coming down but it is soon apparent that they are stabilizing at about 200 on both oil and coolant. Very disappointing, since they had been well below this on the ground when at the same fuel flow I was currently flying at (I had backed it down to 5.75 gph by this time). The plane itself is flying beautifully. The aileron trim is able to trim out a very slight left wing heavy tendency and the ship feels like it is gliding through the air effortlessly. Again, no surprise, the plane feels just like an RV (Magnificent!). At this speed (guessing about 135 mph) the roll response is only slightly slower than the -4. The ailerons were extended with the wing so the RV feel has been preserved. I've completed a wide circuit of the pattern and in position to make an approach so I throttle back and I can immediately tell that the glide ratio is significantly higher than the -4. The longer wing is having more effect than I thought it would even with the heavier engine. This -8 with a 20B ended up weighing about 70 pounds more than the average one equipped with an 0 - 360 and fixed pitch prop and about the same as one equipped with an IO - 360 with constant speed prop. Empty weight (but with oil) is 1150 lbs. All the attention to weight control has paid off. I throttle up for a go around and the FBW throttle responds well, no detectable throttle lag at all. The higher than expected oil and water temps are distracting me from data gathering (Rats, I haven't had time to replace the EM2 with a data logging EM3 yet) so I make a few more circuits of the field and setup for an approach. I crank in more flaps early to kill off the airspeed and excess glide ratio and intentionally do not look at the ASI to avoid being confused. Wheel landing touchdown is perfect and now I glance at the ASI and see 40 MPH. Obviously wrong. All in all, a great first flight. The RV-8 is going to be exactly the airplane I was hoping for. Still a lot of testing and tweaking to do. Tracy Crook ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 07, 2009
Subject: circuit diagram for van's gauges.
From: thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com>
Is there anywhere I can download the circuit diagram that comes with van's gauges? I looked at van's website, but they don't seem to have it available for download. -- Tom Sargent ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "charlie heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: At long last, First Flight.
Date: Sep 08, 2009
OK, Tracy, there is a guy in NC with a rotary in a 6, cant think of his name right now, maybe he will respond, Chas ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracy Crook To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 09:09 Subject: Re: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Thanks Charlie. The 'half throttle takeoff' was mainly a reaction to what happened in a previous test flight in my RV-4. I had changed the gear reduction drive to a higher ratio and installed a much longer prop turning the opposite direction. The higher ratio allowed the rotary to get further into its power band so I had significantly more power at takeoff ( running fixed pitch prop). Between the increased and opposite direction P factor, I almost crashed into the fence next to the runway on takeoff (cleared it by inches). I learned to feed throttle in gradually rather than firewalling it immediately as I had done in the past. That was with a 200 HP engine so I was a little paranoid with 300 HP on tap. On the -8 I also fed throttle gradually but stopped when the fuel flow reached the same rate as the smaller engine at WOT in the -4 . Assuming all other things being equal, a big engine will burn about the same amount of fuel as a small one when making the same power. That was the goal on this first takeoff. I'll explore the extra 100 HP later. On rotary engines it is important to measure oil temperature after the oil cooler just before it enters the engine because the rotors are 100% cooled by oil flow. It is mainly an O-ring in the oil control rings that get damaged by high oil temps. Not catastrophic but high oil consumption results and requires a complete teardown to replace the O-rings. Rotors have combustion chambers on three faces and they don't get a whole revolution just to cool off like a piston does. But on the other hand they are made of iron instead of aluminum. The oil temps are typically 40 degrees higher in the pan prior to going through the cooler. I'm guessing Lyc's oil temp is measured in the pan. On a 'perfect' rotary cooling system, we'd like to see 180 F on both oil and coolant. Tracy Crook On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 7:41 AM, charlie heathco wrote: Congrats on first flight. Im curious about taking off with 1/2 thotle? Is this something common to the rotary? Re "hight temps" 200 deg on oil is not a problem with Lyc's, and seems car engine temps on coolant run that high or even higher? Charlie H ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracy Crook To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 20:44 Subject: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Today there was nothing left to do on the Mazda 20B powered RV-8 but flight test it. For those of you not familiar with the rotary engine, The 20B is a 3 rotor version of the 13B which powered the Mazda RX-7. The 20B makes about 300 HP in normally aspirated form. (it was turbocharged in the Japanese car it came from (never sold in the US). I've been flying an RV-4 with the Mazda 13B two rotor engine for 15 years, 1850 hrs. TT. Very hot day (93 F and high humidity) but ground tests of the cooling system had gone so well that I was confident of cooling in flight. Installed the radio and transponder in the panel (which for some reason I had neglected to do until this morning) and they both worked with no problems, which is always a surprise. High speed taxi tests had already been completed and the P-factor was no worse than the RV-4, in fact I think it has less. This may be premature because I haven't done a full throttle takeoff yet. The RV-8 has 1.25 degrees right offset which I think helps a lot. The RV-4 has no offset. First flight was done without wheel pants or main gear intersection fairings. Just to make sure there were no surprises, takeoff was done at the same fuel flow as the RV-4 at WOT. I didn't note the manifold pressure but the throttle quadrant was barely over 1/2 throttle. Ground run on the -8 feels more stable than the -4 with considerably more rudder authority (it's physically bigger so no surprise). The plane broke ground at about the same point as the -4 but it feels like it levitates off rather than rotates off. Probably due to the higher wing incidence on the ground than the -4 with the short gear legs but also due to the longer wing. I had extended both wings by about 18" so the wing loading and span loading are less than on the -4. It has about 13% more wing area than stock. This was actually the second time the -8 had air under the tires since it had floated off ground about a foot once before during a high speed taxi test. Airspeed was increasing rapidly after lift off but the ASI was not matching the visual ques. Normally I expect to see 120 mph at the end of the runway (2700 ft) but ASI shows only 80. Too late to abort but the airplane is climbing & sounding very nice. I had been doing a lot of seat-of-the pants takeoff and simulated dead stick landings (in the -4) in anticipation of today's tests so I would feel comfortable in the event of partial or complete panel failure (Blue Mountain EFIS1 with only a standard ASI for backup). Climb to 1000 feet felt effortless even after throttling back to 8 GPH. I notice that I'm hunting for information and not absorbing much due to the very different instrument panel. Remembering that the EFIS1 has the primary ASI in a speed ribbon format, I hunt for it and see 0 MPH when I finally find it. The EM2 (an RWS engine monitor with backup ASI, VSI & Altitude) shows the same airspeed as the Van's steam gauge, now about 100 MPH. First squawk of the flight and this means I will do the first landing sans airspeed indicator. I can't seem to locate the GPS ground speed on the display either. Glad I did all that practice. Time to settle in and start evaluating engine performance. I had taken off with the engine fairly warm so I was not surprised to see oil & water temps nearing 190 F after climbout. I continue collecting data hoping the temps will start coming down but it is soon apparent that they are stabilizing at about 200 on both oil and coolant. Very disappointing, since they had been well below this on the ground when at the same fuel flow I was currently flying at (I had backed it down to 5.75 gph by this time). The plane itself is flying beautifully. The aileron trim is able to trim out a very slight left wing heavy tendency and the ship feels like it is gliding through the air effortlessly. Again, no surprise, the plane feels just like an RV (Magnificent!). At this speed (guessing about 135 mph) the roll response is only slightly slower than the -4. The ailerons were extended with the wing so the RV feel has been preserved. I've completed a wide circuit of the pattern and in position to make an approach so I throttle back and I can immediately tell that the glide ratio is significantly higher than the -4. The longer wing is having more effect than I thought it would even with the heavier engine. This -8 with a 20B ended up weighing about 70 pounds more than the average one equipped with an 0 - 360 and fixed pitch prop and about the same as one equipped with an IO - 360 with constant speed prop. Empty weight (but with oil) is 1150 lbs. All the attention to weight control has paid off. I throttle up for a go around and the FBW throttle responds well, no detectable throttle lag at all. The higher than expected oil and water temps are distracting me from data gathering (Rats, I haven't had time to replace the EM2 with a data logging EM3 yet) so I make a few more circuits of the field and setup for an approach. I crank in more flaps early to kill off the airspeed and excess glide ratio and intentionally do not look at the ASI to avoid being confused. Wheel landing touchdown is perfect and now I glance at the ASI and see 40 MPH. Obviously wrong. All in all, a great first flight. The RV-8 is going to be exactly the airplane I was hoping for. Still a lot of testing and tweaking to do. Tracy Crook href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List a>http://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: At long last, First Flight.
Date: Sep 08, 2009
Thanks Chas, Tracy and I have know each other since about 1995 - and I was delighted to see his third rotary engine type (a three rotor capable of 300 HP) powering his new RV-8. His light weight rotary powered RV-4 was the winner of the Sun & Fun 100 air race back in 2003 or so, I expect the Rv-8 follows in its smaller brother's footsteps. Tracy's RV-8 is truly an impressive bit of engineering with the equipment and changes he has made. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com <http://www.andersonee.com> http://www.andersonee.com <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ <http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of charlie heathco Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:41 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. OK, Tracy, there is a guy in NC with a rotary in a 6, cant think of his name right now, maybe he will respond, Chas ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracy <mailto:tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com> Crook Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 09:09 Subject: Re: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Thanks Charlie. The 'half throttle takeoff' was mainly a reaction to what happened in a previous test flight in my RV-4. I had changed the gear reduction drive to a higher ratio and installed a much longer prop turning the opposite direction. The higher ratio allowed the rotary to get further into its power band so I had significantly more power at takeoff ( running fixed pitch prop). Between the increased and opposite direction P factor, I almost crashed into the fence next to the runway on takeoff (cleared it by inches). I learned to feed throttle in gradually rather than firewalling it immediately as I had done in the past. That was with a 200 HP engine so I was a little paranoid with 300 HP on tap. On the -8 I also fed throttle gradually but stopped when the fuel flow reached the same rate as the smaller engine at WOT in the -4 . Assuming all other things being equal, a big engine will burn about the same amount of fuel as a small one when making the same power. That was the goal on this first takeoff. I'll explore the extra 100 HP later. On rotary engines it is important to measure oil temperature after the oil cooler just before it enters the engine because the rotors are 100% cooled by oil flow. It is mainly an O-ring in the oil control rings that get damaged by high oil temps. Not catastrophic but high oil consumption results and requires a complete teardown to replace the O-rings. Rotors have combustion chambers on three faces and they don't get a whole revolution just to cool off like a piston does. But on the other hand they are made of iron instead of aluminum. The oil temps are typically 40 degrees higher in the pan prior to going through the cooler. I'm guessing Lyc's oil temp is measured in the pan. On a 'perfect' rotary cooling system, we'd like to see 180 F on both oil and coolant. Tracy Crook On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 7:41 AM, charlie heathco wrote: Congrats on first flight. Im curious about taking off with 1/2 thotle? Is this something common to the rotary? Re "hight temps" 200 deg on oil is not a problem with Lyc's, and seems car engine temps on coolant run that high or even higher? Charlie H ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracy Crook <mailto:tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com> Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 20:44 Subject: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Today there was nothing left to do on the Mazda 20B powered RV-8 but flight test it. For those of you not familiar with the rotary engine, The 20B is a 3 rotor version of the 13B which powered the Mazda RX-7. The 20B makes about 300 HP in normally aspirated form. (it was turbocharged in the Japanese car it came from (never sold in the US). I've been flying an RV-4 with the Mazda 13B two rotor engine for 15 years, 1850 hrs. TT. Very hot day (93 F and high humidity) but ground tests of the cooling system had gone so well that I was confident of cooling in flight. Installed the radio and transponder in the panel (which for some reason I had neglected to do until this morning) and they both worked with no problems, which is always a surprise. High speed taxi tests had already been completed and the P-factor was no worse than the RV-4, in fact I think it has less. This may be premature because I haven't done a full throttle takeoff yet. The RV-8 has 1.25 degrees right offset which I think helps a lot. The RV-4 has no offset. First flight was done without wheel pants or main gear intersection fairings. Just to make sure there were no surprises, takeoff was done at the same fuel flow as the RV-4 at WOT. I didn't note the manifold pressure but the throttle quadrant was barely over 1/2 throttle. Ground run on the -8 feels more stable than the -4 with considerably more rudder authority (it's physically bigger so no surprise). The plane broke ground at about the same point as the -4 but it feels like it levitates off rather than rotates off. Probably due to the higher wing incidence on the ground than the -4 with the short gear legs but also due to the longer wing. I had extended both wings by about 18" so the wing loading and span loading are less than on the -4. It has about 13% more wing area than stock. This was actually the second time the -8 had air under the tires since it had floated off ground about a foot once before during a high speed taxi test. Airspeed was increasing rapidly after lift off but the ASI was not matching the visual ques. Normally I expect to see 120 mph at the end of the runway (2700 ft) but ASI shows only 80. Too late to abort but the airplane is climbing & sounding very nice. I had been doing a lot of seat-of-the pants takeoff and simulated dead stick landings (in the -4) in anticipation of today's tests so I would feel comfortable in the event of partial or complete panel failure (Blue Mountain EFIS1 with only a standard ASI for backup). Climb to 1000 feet felt effortless even after throttling back to 8 GPH. I notice that I'm hunting for information and not absorbing much due to the very different instrument panel. Remembering that the EFIS1 has the primary ASI in a speed ribbon format, I hunt for it and see 0 MPH when I finally find it. The EM2 (an RWS engine monitor with backup ASI, VSI & Altitude) shows the same airspeed as the Van's steam gauge, now about 100 MPH. First squawk of the flight and this means I will do the first landing sans airspeed indicator. I can't seem to locate the GPS ground speed on the display either. Glad I did all that practice. Time to settle in and start evaluating engine performance. I had taken off with the engine fairly warm so I was not surprised to see oil & water temps nearing 190 F after climbout. I continue collecting data hoping the temps will start coming down but it is soon apparent that they are stabilizing at about 200 on both oil and coolant. Very disappointing, since they had been well below this on the ground when at the same fuel flow I was currently flying at (I had backed it down to 5.75 gph by this time). The plane itself is flying beautifully. The aileron trim is able to trim out a very slight left wing heavy tendency and the ship feels like it is gliding through the air effortlessly. Again, no surprise, the plane feels just like an RV (Magnificent!). At this speed (guessing about 135 mph) the roll response is only slightly slower than the -4. The ailerons were extended with the wing so the RV feel has been preserved. I've completed a wide circuit of the pattern and in position to make an approach so I throttle back and I can immediately tell that the glide ratio is significantly higher than the -4. The longer wing is having more effect than I thought it would even with the heavier engine. This -8 with a 20B ended up weighing about 70 pounds more than the average one equipped with an 0 - 360 and fixed pitch prop and about the same as one equipped with an IO - 360 with constant speed prop. Empty weight (but with oil) is 1150 lbs. All the attention to weight control has paid off. I throttle up for a go around and the FBW throttle responds well, no detectable throttle lag at all. The higher than expected oil and water temps are distracting me from data gathering (Rats, I haven't had time to replace the EM2 with a data logging EM3 yet) so I make a few more circuits of the field and setup for an approach. I crank in more flaps early to kill off the airspeed and excess glide ratio and intentionally do not look at the ASI to avoid being confused. Wheel landing touchdown is perfect and now I glance at the ASI and see 40 MPH. Obviously wrong. All in all, a great first flight. The RV-8 is going to be exactly the airplane I was hoping for. Still a lot of testing and tweaking to do. Tracy Crook href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List a>http://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: High oil pressure indications
From: "Bubblehead" <jdalman2000(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sep 08, 2009
I have an EIS-4000 from Grand Rapids and am having the same problem. It started after I changed oil and filter and had pulled and checked the screen. I've test flown it twice and oil temperatures and power and CHTs were same as always so I don't think I have an oil flow problem but would feel better if the indication was normal too. I emailed GRT and got a nice reply saying that if the sensor is not well grounded it will show 99 psi. They recommended I check all the connections. When I installed the sensor last winter I put a small aluminum tab between the case of the sensor and the Adel clamp, and ran a separate ground wire. Perhaps the tab has loosened a bit and the ground has gotten flaky. I will check the connections next time at the airport. GRT also said that you should not use tape between the oil hose and the sensor so that the sensor can ground through the hose to the engine. -------- John Dalman Elburn, IL RV-8 N247TD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262053#262053 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Vetterman Exhaust Hangars
Let us know what Larry has to say. Maybe post some pictures when you've figured it out... Matt Dralle RV-8 #8288- N998RV http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle Finishing Up The Cowling... At 06:19 AM 9/8/2009 Tuesday, you wrote: >Thanks Matt. Beautiful installation. The mount on the 7 is quite a bit different than the 8 by the looks of things but the concept of the hangars is the same. I'm going to give Larry a call today to see what he recommends. I'm probably just missing something but I'm also concerned that the hangar is going to interfer with the location of the scat tube for the heat muff. I didn't see where you had your heat muff installed yet. On my setup, the instructions say to put it over tubes 1&3 (it's a double heat muff) as far aft next to the hangar bracket as you can. Since it's a double muff, you can't rotate it on the pipe, and the heat outlet would be right under one of the hangar rods. I'm sure Larry has an answer - I can't be the first. > >Thanks again. > >Tim Popp >RV-7 N963P >C172.58(at)JUNO.COM > >======================================================= > >From: Matt Dralle <<http://webmaila.juno.com/webmail/new/8?folder=Inbox&msgNum=00000PW0:001AdWJ_00000Xg^&block=1&msgNature=all&msgStatus=all&count=1252414493&content=central#>dralle@matronics.com> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Vetterman Exhaust Hangars > >I have the 4-into-4 Vetterman exhaust on my RV-8. The instructions stated to mount >the hangers to the engine mount. Here are some pictures of my installation. >There might be more options on the RV-7, don't know. > >Matt Dralle >RV-8 #82880 N998RV ><http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle>http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV Forum KFZY - Oswego CO,NY Sept 11-12-13 weekend
Date: Sep 08, 2009
From: rv6160hp(at)aol.com
SO.... I returned to KFZY from my long weekend,...with a nail biter out of 0W3 Maryland to there... The south east & coast was a mess today kept me floating around at 3000 & 2500 just under hard covered ceilings........ ......... Anyhow ran into Mike Seager arriving there from the West Coast in the RV7....GAME ON! Hope to see some of you there this weekend Regards David McManmon RV6 builder flying-pilot. -----Original Message----- From: rv6160hp(at)aol.com Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 8:10 pm Subject: RV Forum KFZY - Oswego CO,NY Sept 11-12-13 weekend EAA 486 at: http://www.eaachapter486.com/ RV Forum KFZY - Oswego CO,NY Sept 11-12-13 weekend. I assume ya'll have heard and are informed.. but in case you haven't heard of this: Highlights to include Mike Seager giving lessons in the Factory RV and the NE RV12 rep scheduled... Read more at: http://www.eaachapter486.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=98&Itemid=109 http://www.eaachapter486.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=113&Itemid=110 http://www.eaachapter486.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=114&Itemid=113 Hope you can make it, pray for VFR and lots of planes! Regards David McManmon RV6 builder flying-pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "charlie heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: At long last, First Flight.
Date: Sep 08, 2009
Thanks Ed, sorry I couldnt think of your name. I remember yourr storyu about your long dead stick landing a few years ago. How many HP does your rotary have? Aslo Do you know how Tracy's engind stacks up against Mikes 540 in his super 8? Charlie Heathco ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Anderson To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 07:47 Subject: RE: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Thanks Chas, Tracy and I have know each other since about 1995 - and I was delighted to see his third rotary engine type (a three rotor capable of 300 HP) powering his new RV-8. His light weight rotary powered RV-4 was the winner of the Sun & Fun 100 air race back in 2003 or so, I expect the Rv-8 follows in its smaller brother's footsteps. Tracy's RV-8 is truly an impressive bit of engineering with the equipment and changes he has made. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of charlie heathco Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:41 AM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. OK, Tracy, there is a guy in NC with a rotary in a 6, cant think of his name right now, maybe he will respond, Chas ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracy Crook To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 09:09 Subject: Re: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Thanks Charlie. The 'half throttle takeoff' was mainly a reaction to what happened in a previous test flight in my RV-4. I had changed the gear reduction drive to a higher ratio and installed a much longer prop turning the opposite direction. The higher ratio allowed the rotary to get further into its power band so I had significantly more power at takeoff ( running fixed pitch prop). Between the increased and opposite direction P factor, I almost crashed into the fence next to the runway on takeoff (cleared it by inches). I learned to feed throttle in gradually rather than firewalling it immediately as I had done in the past. That was with a 200 HP engine so I was a little paranoid with 300 HP on tap. On the -8 I also fed throttle gradually but stopped when the fuel flow reached the same rate as the smaller engine at WOT in the -4 . Assuming all other things being equal, a big engine will burn about the same amount of fuel as a small one when making the same power. That was the goal on this first takeoff. I'll explore the extra 100 HP later. On rotary engines it is important to measure oil temperature after the oil cooler just before it enters the engine because the rotors are 100% cooled by oil flow. It is mainly an O-ring in the oil control rings that get damaged by high oil temps. Not catastrophic but high oil consumption results and requires a complete teardown to replace the O-rings. Rotors have combustion chambers on three faces and they don't get a whole revolution just to cool off like a piston does. But on the other hand they are made of iron instead of aluminum. The oil temps are typically 40 degrees higher in the pan prior to going through the cooler. I'm guessing Lyc's oil temp is measured in the pan. On a 'perfect' rotary cooling system, we'd like to see 180 F on both oil and coolant. Tracy Crook On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 7:41 AM, charlie heathco wrote: Congrats on first flight. Im curious about taking off with 1/2 thotle? Is this something common to the rotary? Re "hight temps" 200 deg on oil is not a problem with Lyc's, and seems car engine temps on coolant run that high or even higher? Charlie H ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracy Crook To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 20:44 Subject: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Today there was nothing left to do on the Mazda 20B powered RV-8 but flight test it. For those of you not familiar with the rotary engine, The 20B is a 3 rotor version of the 13B which powered the Mazda RX-7. The 20B makes about 300 HP in normally aspirated form. (it was turbocharged in the Japanese car it came from (never sold in the US). I've been flying an RV-4 with the Mazda 13B two rotor engine for 15 years, 1850 hrs. TT. Very hot day (93 F and high humidity) but ground tests of the cooling system had gone so well that I was confident of cooling in flight. Installed the radio and transponder in the panel (which for some reason I had neglected to do until this morning) and they both worked with no problems, which is always a surprise. High speed taxi tests had already been completed and the P-factor was no worse than the RV-4, in fact I think it has less. This may be premature because I haven't done a full throttle takeoff yet. The RV-8 has 1.25 degrees right offset which I think helps a lot. The RV-4 has no offset. First flight was done without wheel pants or main gear intersection fairings. Just to make sure there were no surprises, takeoff was done at the same fuel flow as the RV-4 at WOT. I didn't note the manifold pressure but the throttle quadrant was barely over 1/2 throttle. Ground run on the -8 feels more stable than the -4 with considerably more rudder authority (it's physically bigger so no surprise). The plane broke ground at about the same point as the -4 but it feels like it levitates off rather than rotates off. Probably due to the higher wing incidence on the ground than the -4 with the short gear legs but also due to the longer wing. I had extended both wings by about 18" so the wing loading and span loading are less than on the -4. It has about 13% more wing area than stock. This was actually the second time the -8 had air under the tires since it had floated off ground about a foot once before during a high speed taxi test. Airspeed was increasing rapidly after lift off but the ASI was not matching the visual ques. Normally I expect to see 120 mph at the end of the runway (2700 ft) but ASI shows only 80. Too late to abort but the airplane is climbing & sounding very nice. I had been doing a lot of seat-of-the pants takeoff and simulated dead stick landings (in the -4) in anticipation of today's tests so I would feel comfortable in the event of partial or complete panel failure (Blue Mountain EFIS1 with only a standard ASI for backup). Climb to 1000 feet felt effortless even after throttling back to 8 GPH. I notice that I'm hunting for information and not absorbing much due to the very different instrument panel. Remembering that the EFIS1 has the primary ASI in a speed ribbon format, I hunt for it and see 0 MPH when I finally find it. The EM2 (an RWS engine monitor with backup ASI, VSI & Altitude) shows the same airspeed as the Van's steam gauge, now about 100 MPH. First squawk of the flight and this means I will do the first landing sans airspeed indicator. I can't seem to locate the GPS ground speed on the display either. Glad I did all that practice. Time to settle in and start evaluating engine performance. I had taken off with the engine fairly warm so I was not surprised to see oil & water temps nearing 190 F after climbout. I continue collecting data hoping the temps will start coming down but it is soon apparent that they are stabilizing at about 200 on both oil and coolant. Very disappointing, since they had been well below this on the ground when at the same fuel flow I was currently flying at (I had backed it down to 5.75 gph by this time). The plane itself is flying beautifully. The aileron trim is able to trim out a very slight left wing heavy tendency and the ship feels like it is gliding through the air effortlessly. Again, no surprise, the plane feels just like an RV (Magnificent!). At this speed (guessing about 135 mph) the roll response is only slightly slower than the -4. The ailerons were extended with the wing so the RV feel has been preserved. I've completed a wide circuit of the pattern and in position to make an approach so I throttle back and I can immediately tell that the glide ratio is significantly higher than the -4. The longer wing is having more effect than I thought it would even with the heavier engine. This -8 with a 20B ended up weighing about 70 pounds more than the average one equipped with an 0 - 360 and fixed pitch prop and about the same as one equipped with an IO - 360 with constant speed prop. Empty weight (but with oil) is 1150 lbs. All the attention to weight control has paid off. I throttle up for a go around and the FBW throttle responds well, no detectable throttle lag at all. The higher than expected oil and water temps are distracting me from data gathering (Rats, I haven't had time to replace the EM2 with a data logging EM3 yet) so I make a few more circuits of the field and setup for an approach. I crank in more flaps early to kill off the airspeed and excess glide ratio and intentionally do not look at the ASI to avoid being confused. Wheel landing touchdown is perfect and now I glance at the ASI and see 40 MPH. Obviously wrong. All in all, a great first flight. The RV-8 is going to be exactly the airplane I was hoping for. Still a lot of testing and tweaking to do. Tracy Crook href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.m atronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.mat ronics.com/c t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-Lista>http://forums.ma tronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.m atronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.mat ronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp ://www.matronics.com/contribution __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "charlie heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject: Tires on 6a
Date: Sep 08, 2009
LAst preflight I decieded tires(mains)) were getting close to replacement. they are Mich condors, instaled march 05 and rotated a while back, seems the present side wore faster than orig. Looks like they are about $20 more now t at spruuce than 4 years ago. Any recomendatiuons as to better wearing brand and/or where to buy? Charlie H ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 2009
Subject: Re: Tires on 6a
From: Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowenaero.com>
I like the retreads from Dresser. http://www.desser.com/ -- Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:21 PM, charlie heathco wrote: > LAst preflight I decieded tires(mains)) were getting close to > replacement. they are Mich condors, instaled march 05 and rotated a while > back, seems the present side wore faster than orig. Looks like they are > about $20 more now t at spruuce than 4 years ago. Any recomendatiuons as to > better wearing brand and/or where to buy? Charlie H > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 2009
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Tires on 6a
I bought recaps from Desser at Sun-N-Fun .....they offered a discount and no shipping. I also bought tubes with 90 degree stems for easier access through a small hole in the wheel pant. Linn charlie heathco wrote: > LAst preflight I decieded tires(mains)) were getting close to > replacement. they are Mich condors, instaled march 05 and rotated a > while back, seems the present side wore faster than orig. Looks like > they are about $20 more now t at spruuce than 4 years ago. Any > recomendatiuons as to better wearing brand and/or where to buy? Charlie H > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Hedrick" <khedrick(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Tires on 6a
Date: Sep 08, 2009
Just make sure that the retreads will fit under your wheel pants. They have a larger diameter. Keith Hedrick 3LF _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Bowen Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:37 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Tires on 6a I like the retreads from Dresser. http://www.desser.com/ -- Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:21 PM, charlie heathco wrote: LAst preflight I decieded tires(mains)) were getting close to replacement. they are Mich condors, instaled march 05 and rotated a while back, seems the present side wore faster than orig. Looks like they are about $20 more now t at spruuce than 4 years ago. Any recomendatiuons as to better wearing brand and/or where to buy? Charlie H t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution 06:48:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 2009
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: Tires on 6a
Only the Monster Retreads are larger. Their regular Desser retread is standard TSO size. I've been using them for 10 years on my Mooney...no issues with room in the wheel wells. Hedrick wrote: > Just make sure that the retreads will fit under your wheel pants. They > have a larger diameter. > > > > Keith Hedrick > > 3LF > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Larry Bowen > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:37 PM > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Tires on 6a > > > > I like the retreads from Dresser. > > http://www.desser.com/ > > > -- > Larry Bowen > Larry(at)BowenAero.com > http://BowenAero.com > > On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:21 PM, charlie heathco > wrote: > > LAst preflight I decieded tires(mains)) were getting close to > replacement. they are Mich condors, instaled march 05 and rotated a > while back, seems the present side wore faster than orig. Looks like > they are about $20 more now t at spruuce than 4 years ago. Any > recomendatiuons as to better wearing brand and/or where to buy? Charlie H > > * * > > * * > > *t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List* > > *tp://forums.matronics.com* > > *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List* > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > 270.13.83/2353 - Release Date: 09/08/09 06:48:00 > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "charlie heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Tires on 6a
Date: Sep 08, 2009
Now ive forgoten what the tire size is on my mains, looked in log and all I said was I installed he condors, didnt put six\ze. arent they 600-6? Charlie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym(at)aviating.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 22:44 Subject: Re: RV-List: Tires on 6a Only the Monster Retreads are larger. Their regular Desser retread is standard TSO size. I've been using them for 10 years on my Mooney...no issues with room in the wheel wells. Hedrick wrote: > Just make sure that the retreads will fit under your wheel pants. They > have a larger diameter. > > > Keith Hedrick > > 3LF > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Larry Bowen > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:37 PM > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Tires on 6a > > > I like the retreads from Dresser. > > http://www.desser.com/ > > > -- > Larry Bowen > Larry(at)BowenAero.com > http://BowenAero.com > > On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:21 PM, charlie heathco > wrote: > > LAst preflight I decieded tires(mains)) were getting close to > replacement. they are Mich condors, instaled march 05 and rotated a > while back, seems the present side wore faster than orig. Looks like > they are about $20 more now t at spruuce than 4 years ago. Any > recomendatiuons as to better wearing brand and/or where to buy? Charlie H > > * * > > * * > > *t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List* > > *tp://forums.matronics.com* > > *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List* > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > 270.13.83/2353 - Release Date: 09/08/09 06:48:00 > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don" <dsvs(at)ca.rr.com>
Subject: Tires on 6a
Date: Sep 08, 2009
I have not had to change tires yet, but I think Gary Sobeck recommended retreads from Wilkerson Tires http://www.wilkersonaircrafttires.com/ Don van Santen RV7 Flying From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of charlie heathco Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 7:22 PM Subject: RV-List: Tires on 6a LAst preflight I decieded tires(mains)) were getting close to replacement. they are Mich condors, instaled march 05 and rotated a while back, seems the present side wore faster than orig. Looks like they are about $20 more now t at spruuce than 4 years ago. Any recomendatiuons as to better wearing brand and/or where to buy? Charlie H ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: At long last, First Flight.
Date: Sep 09, 2009
Based on Fuel Flow and performance I would estimate between 170 and 180 HP on a normal day. It does considerably better when it has cold dense air and I have seen fuel flow of 21 GPH on a cold day. I guess we'll just have to get Mike and Tracy to do a fly off {:>). I do know the three rotor is capable of around 300 HP without a turbo - we'll have to wait and see what Tracy gets out of it, but I would be very surprised if it isn't at least 275 -280 HP range. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com <http://www.andersonee.com> http://www.andersonee.com <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ <http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of charlie heathco Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:35 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Thanks Ed, sorry I couldnt think of your name. I remember yourr storyu about your long dead stick landing a few years ago. How many HP does your rotary have? Aslo Do you know how Tracy's engind stacks up against Mikes 540 in his super 8? Charlie Heathco ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed <mailto:eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> Anderson Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 07:47 Subject: RE: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Thanks Chas, Tracy and I have know each other since about 1995 - and I was delighted to see his third rotary engine type (a three rotor capable of 300 HP) powering his new RV-8. His light weight rotary powered RV-4 was the winner of the Sun & Fun 100 air race back in 2003 or so, I expect the Rv-8 follows in its smaller brother's footsteps. Tracy's RV-8 is truly an impressive bit of engineering with the equipment and changes he has made. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com <http://www.andersonee.com> http://www.andersonee.com <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ <http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of charlie heathco Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:41 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. OK, Tracy, there is a guy in NC with a rotary in a 6, cant think of his name right now, maybe he will respond, Chas ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracy <mailto:tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com> Crook Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 09:09 Subject: Re: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Thanks Charlie. The 'half throttle takeoff' was mainly a reaction to what happened in a previous test flight in my RV-4. I had changed the gear reduction drive to a higher ratio and installed a much longer prop turning the opposite direction. The higher ratio allowed the rotary to get further into its power band so I had significantly more power at takeoff ( running fixed pitch prop). Between the increased and opposite direction P factor, I almost crashed into the fence next to the runway on takeoff (cleared it by inches). I learned to feed throttle in gradually rather than firewalling it immediately as I had done in the past. That was with a 200 HP engine so I was a little paranoid with 300 HP on tap. On the -8 I also fed throttle gradually but stopped when the fuel flow reached the same rate as the smaller engine at WOT in the -4 . Assuming all other things being equal, a big engine will burn about the same amount of fuel as a small one when making the same power. That was the goal on this first takeoff. I'll explore the extra 100 HP later. On rotary engines it is important to measure oil temperature after the oil cooler just before it enters the engine because the rotors are 100% cooled by oil flow. It is mainly an O-ring in the oil control rings that get damaged by high oil temps. Not catastrophic but high oil consumption results and requires a complete teardown to replace the O-rings. Rotors have combustion chambers on three faces and they don't get a whole revolution just to cool off like a piston does. But on the other hand they are made of iron instead of aluminum. The oil temps are typically 40 degrees higher in the pan prior to going through the cooler. I'm guessing Lyc's oil temp is measured in the pan. On a 'perfect' rotary cooling system, we'd like to see 180 F on both oil and coolant. Tracy Crook On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 7:41 AM, charlie heathco wrote: Congrats on first flight. Im curious about taking off with 1/2 thotle? Is this something common to the rotary? Re "hight temps" 200 deg on oil is not a problem with Lyc's, and seems car engine temps on coolant run that high or even higher? Charlie H ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracy Crook <mailto:tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com> Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 20:44 Subject: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Today there was nothing left to do on the Mazda 20B powered RV-8 but flight test it. For those of you not familiar with the rotary engine, The 20B is a 3 rotor version of the 13B which powered the Mazda RX-7. The 20B makes about 300 HP in normally aspirated form. (it was turbocharged in the Japanese car it came from (never sold in the US). I've been flying an RV-4 with the Mazda 13B two rotor engine for 15 years, 1850 hrs. TT. Very hot day (93 F and high humidity) but ground tests of the cooling system had gone so well that I was confident of cooling in flight. Installed the radio and transponder in the panel (which for some reason I had neglected to do until this morning) and they both worked with no problems, which is always a surprise. High speed taxi tests had already been completed and the P-factor was no worse than the RV-4, in fact I think it has less. This may be premature because I haven't done a full throttle takeoff yet. The RV-8 has 1.25 degrees right offset which I think helps a lot. The RV-4 has no offset. First flight was done without wheel pants or main gear intersection fairings. Just to make sure there were no surprises, takeoff was done at the same fuel flow as the RV-4 at WOT. I didn't note the manifold pressure but the throttle quadrant was barely over 1/2 throttle. Ground run on the -8 feels more stable than the -4 with considerably more rudder authority (it's physically bigger so no surprise). The plane broke ground at about the same point as the -4 but it feels like it levitates off rather than rotates off. Probably due to the higher wing incidence on the ground than the -4 with the short gear legs but also due to the longer wing. I had extended both wings by about 18" so the wing loading and span loading are less than on the -4. It has about 13% more wing area than stock. This was actually the second time the -8 had air under the tires since it had floated off ground about a foot once before during a high speed taxi test. Airspeed was increasing rapidly after lift off but the ASI was not matching the visual ques. Normally I expect to see 120 mph at the end of the runway (2700 ft) but ASI shows only 80. Too late to abort but the airplane is climbing & sounding very nice. I had been doing a lot of seat-of-the pants takeoff and simulated dead stick landings (in the -4) in anticipation of today's tests so I would feel comfortable in the event of partial or complete panel failure (Blue Mountain EFIS1 with only a standard ASI for backup). Climb to 1000 feet felt effortless even after throttling back to 8 GPH. I notice that I'm hunting for information and not absorbing much due to the very different instrument panel. Remembering that the EFIS1 has the primary ASI in a speed ribbon format, I hunt for it and see 0 MPH when I finally find it. The EM2 (an RWS engine monitor with backup ASI, VSI & Altitude) shows the same airspeed as the Van's steam gauge, now about 100 MPH. First squawk of the flight and this means I will do the first landing sans airspeed indicator. I can't seem to locate the GPS ground speed on the display either. Glad I did all that practice. Time to settle in and start evaluating engine performance. I had taken off with the engine fairly warm so I was not surprised to see oil & water temps nearing 190 F after climbout. I continue collecting data hoping the temps will start coming down but it is soon apparent that they are stabilizing at about 200 on both oil and coolant. Very disappointing, since they had been well below this on the ground when at the same fuel flow I was currently flying at (I had backed it down to 5.75 gph by this time). The plane itself is flying beautifully. The aileron trim is able to trim out a very slight left wing heavy tendency and the ship feels like it is gliding through the air effortlessly. Again, no surprise, the plane feels just like an RV (Magnificent!). At this speed (guessing about 135 mph) the roll response is only slightly slower than the -4. The ailerons were extended with the wing so the RV feel has been preserved. I've completed a wide circuit of the pattern and in position to make an approach so I throttle back and I can immediately tell that the glide ratio is significantly higher than the -4. The longer wing is having more effect than I thought it would even with the heavier engine. This -8 with a 20B ended up weighing about 70 pounds more than the average one equipped with an 0 - 360 and fixed pitch prop and about the same as one equipped with an IO - 360 with constant speed prop. Empty weight (but with oil) is 1150 lbs. All the attention to weight control has paid off. I throttle up for a go around and the FBW throttle responds well, no detectable throttle lag at all. The higher than expected oil and water temps are distracting me from data gathering (Rats, I haven't had time to replace the EM2 with a data logging EM3 yet) so I make a few more circuits of the field and setup for an approach. I crank in more flaps early to kill off the airspeed and excess glide ratio and intentionally do not look at the ASI to avoid being confused. Wheel landing touchdown is perfect and now I glance at the ASI and see 40 MPH. Obviously wrong. All in all, a great first flight. The RV-8 is going to be exactly the airplane I was hoping for. Still a lot of testing and tweaking to do. Tracy Crook href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List a>http://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "charlie heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: At long last, First Flight.
Date: Sep 09, 2009
21 GPH? did you mean 12? A year or so ago I remember reading an article, maybe kitplanes, on a comparison trial between a lyc powered and a rotarty, but dont remember wich modle or HP, you recall? Charlie ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Anderson To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 07:13 Subject: Rotary HP was: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Based on Fuel Flow and performance I would estimate between 170 and 180 HP on a normal day. It does considerably better when it has cold dense air and I have seen fuel flow of 21 GPH on a cold day. I guess we'll just have to get Mike and Tracy to do a fly off {:>). I do know the three rotor is capable of around 300 HP without a turbo - we'll have to wait and see what Tracy gets out of it, but I would be very surprised if it isn't at least 275 -280 HP range. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of charlie heathco Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:35 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Thanks Ed, sorry I couldnt think of your name. I remember yourr storyu about your long dead stick landing a few years ago. How many HP does your rotary have? Aslo Do you know how Tracy's engind stacks up against Mikes 540 in his super 8? Charlie Heathco ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Anderson To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 07:47 Subject: RE: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Thanks Chas, Tracy and I have know each other since about 1995 - and I was delighted to see his third rotary engine type (a three rotor capable of 300 HP) powering his new RV-8. His light weight rotary powered RV-4 was the winner of the Sun & Fun 100 air race back in 2003 or so, I expect the Rv-8 follows in its smaller brother's footsteps. Tracy's RV-8 is truly an impressive bit of engineering with the equipment and changes he has made. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of charlie heathco Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:41 AM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. OK, Tracy, there is a guy in NC with a rotary in a 6, cant think of his name right now, maybe he will respond, Chas ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracy Crook To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 09:09 Subject: Re: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Thanks Charlie. The 'half throttle takeoff' was mainly a reaction to what happened in a previous test flight in my RV-4. I had changed the gear reduction drive to a higher ratio and installed a much longer prop turning the opposite direction. The higher ratio allowed the rotary to get further into its power band so I had significantly more power at takeoff ( running fixed pitch prop). Between the increased and opposite direction P factor, I almost crashed into the fence next to the runway on takeoff (cleared it by inches). I learned to feed throttle in gradually rather than firewalling it immediately as I had done in the past. That was with a 200 HP engine so I was a little paranoid with 300 HP on tap. On the -8 I also fed throttle gradually but stopped when the fuel flow reached the same rate as the smaller engine at WOT in the -4 . Assuming all other things being equal, a big engine will burn about the same amount of fuel as a small one when making the same power. That was the goal on this first takeoff. I'll explore the extra 100 HP later. On rotary engines it is important to measure oil temperature after the oil cooler just before it enters the engine because the rotors are 100% cooled by oil flow. It is mainly an O-ring in the oil control rings that get damaged by high oil temps. Not catastrophic but high oil consumption results and requires a complete teardown to replace the O-rings. Rotors have combustion chambers on three faces and they don't get a whole revolution just to cool off like a piston does. But on the other hand they are made of iron instead of aluminum. The oil temps are typically 40 degrees higher in the pan prior to going through the cooler. I'm guessing Lyc's oil temp is measured in the pan. On a 'perfect' rotary cooling system, we'd like to see 180 F on both oil and coolant. Tracy Crook On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 7:41 AM, charlie heathco wrote: Congrats on first flight. Im curious about taking off with 1/2 thotle? Is this something common to the rotary? Re "hight temps" 200 deg on oil is not a problem with Lyc's, and seems car engine temps on coolant run that high or even higher? Charlie H ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracy Crook To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 20:44 Subject: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Today there was nothing left to do on the Mazda 20B powered RV-8 but flight test it. For those of you not familiar with the rotary engine, The 20B is a 3 rotor version of the 13B which powered the Mazda RX-7. The 20B makes about 300 HP in normally aspirated form. (it was turbocharged in the Japanese car it came from (never sold in the US). I've been flying an RV-4 with the Mazda 13B two rotor engine for 15 years, 1850 hrs. TT. Very hot day (93 F and high humidity) but ground tests of the cooling system had gone so well that I was confident of cooling in flight. Installed the radio and transponder in the panel (which for some reason I had neglected to do until this morning) and they both worked with no problems, which is always a surprise. High speed taxi tests had already been completed and the P-factor was no worse than the RV-4, in fact I think it has less. This may be premature because I haven't done a full throttle takeoff yet. The RV-8 has 1.25 degrees right offset which I think helps a lot. The RV-4 has no offset. First flight was done without wheel pants or main gear intersection fairings. Just to make sure there were no surprises, takeoff was done at the same fuel flow as the RV-4 at WOT. I didn't note the manifold pressure but the throttle quadrant was barely over 1/2 throttle. Ground run on the -8 feels more stable than the -4 with considerably more rudder authority (it's physically bigger so no surprise). The plane broke ground at about the same point as the -4 but it feels like it levitates off rather than rotates off. Probably due to the higher wing incidence on the ground than the -4 with the short gear legs but also due to the longer wing. I had extended both wings by about 18" so the wing loading and span loading are less than on the -4. It has about 13% more wing area than stock. This was actually the second time the -8 had air under the tires since it had floated off ground about a foot once before during a high speed taxi test. Airspeed was increasing rapidly after lift off but the ASI was not matching the visual ques. Normally I expect to see 120 mph at the end of the runway (2700 ft) but ASI shows only 80. Too late to abort but the airplane is climbing & sounding very nice. I had been doing a lot of seat-of-the pants takeoff and simulated dead stick landings (in the -4) in anticipation of today's tests so I would feel comfortable in the event of partial or complete panel failure (Blue Mountain EFIS1 with only a standard ASI for backup). Climb to 1000 feet felt effortless even after throttling back to 8 GPH. I notice that I'm hunting for information and not absorbing much due to the very different instrument panel. Remembering that the EFIS1 has the primary ASI in a speed ribbon format, I hunt for it and see 0 MPH when I finally find it. The EM2 (an RWS engine monitor with backup ASI, VSI & Altitude) shows the same airspeed as the Van's steam gauge, now about 100 MPH. First squawk of the flight and this means I will do the first landing sans airspeed indicator. I can't seem to locate the GPS ground speed on the display either. Glad I did all that practice. Time to settle in and start evaluating engine performance. I had taken off with the engine fairly warm so I was not surprised to see oil & water temps nearing 190 F after climbout. I continue collecting data hoping the temps will start coming down but it is soon apparent that they are stabilizing at about 200 on both oil and coolant. Very disappointing, since they had been well below this on the ground when at the same fuel flow I was currently flying at (I had backed it down to 5.75 gph by this time). The plane itself is flying beautifully. The aileron trim is able to trim out a very slight left wing heavy tendency and the ship feels like it is gliding through the air effortlessly. Again, no surprise, the plane feels just like an RV (Magnificent!). At this speed (guessing about 135 mph) the roll response is only slightly slower than the -4. The ailerons were extended with the wing so the RV feel has been preserved. I've completed a wide circuit of the pattern and in position to make an approach so I throttle back and I can immediately tell that the glide ratio is significantly higher than the -4. The longer wing is having more effect than I thought it would even with the heavier engine. This -8 with a 20B ended up weighing about 70 pounds more than the average one equipped with an 0 - 360 and fixed pitch prop and about the same as one equipped with an IO - 360 with constant speed prop. Empty weight (but with oil) is 1150 lbs. All the attention to weight control has paid off. I throttle up for a go around and the FBW throttle responds well, no detectable throttle lag at all. The higher than expected oil and water temps are distracting me from data gathering (Rats, I haven't had time to replace the EM2 with a data logging EM3 yet) so I make a few more circuits of the field and setup for an approach. I crank in more flaps early to kill off the airspeed and excess glide ratio and intentionally do not look at the ASI to avoid being confused. Wheel landing touchdown is perfect and now I glance at the ASI and see 40 MPH. Obviously wrong. All in all, a great first flight. The RV-8 is going to be exactly the airplane I was hoping for. Still a lot of testing and tweaking to do. Tracy Crook href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.m atronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.mat ronics.com/c t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-Lista>http://forums.ma tronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.m atronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.mat ronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.m atronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.mat ronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp ://www.matronics.com/contribution __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tires on 6a
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Date: Sep 09, 2009
Two place RV mains are 500-5. ------Original Message------ From: charlie heathco Sender: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: RV List Subject: Re: RV-List: Tires on 6a Sent: Sep 8, 2009 11:04 PM Now ive forgoten what the tire size is on my mains, looked in log and all I said was I installed he condors, didnt put six\ze. arent they 600-6? Charlie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym(at)aviating.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 22:44 Subject: Re: RV-List: Tires on 6a Only the Monster Retreads are larger. Their regular Desser retread is standard TSO size. I've been using them for 10 years on my Mooney...no issues with room in the wheel wells. Hedrick wrote: > Just make sure that the retreads will fit under your wheel pants. They > have a larger diameter. > > > Keith Hedrick > > 3LF > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Larry Bowen > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:37 PM > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Tires on 6a > > > I like the retreads from Dresser. > > http://www.desser.com/ > > > -- > Larry Bowen > Larry(at)BowenAero.com > http://BowenAero.com > > On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:21 PM, charlie heathco > wrote: > > LAst preflight I decieded tires(mains)) were getting close to > replacement. they are Mich condors, instaled march 05 and rotated a > while back, seems the present side wore faster than orig. Looks like > they are about $20 more now t at spruuce than 4 years ago. Any > recomendatiuons as to better wearing brand and/or where to buy? Charlie H > > * * > > * * > > *t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List* > > *tp://forums.matronics.com* > > *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List* > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > 270.13.83/2353 - Release Date: 09/08/09 06:48:00 > > * > > > * Regards, Greg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "charlie heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Tires on 6a
Date: Sep 09, 2009
Ok, tnx Gregg, memory not improving with age :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 08:25 Subject: Re: RV-List: Tires on 6a Two place RV mains are 500-5. ------Original Message------ From: charlie heathco Sender: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: RV List Subject: Re: RV-List: Tires on 6a Sent: Sep 8, 2009 11:04 PM Now ive forgoten what the tire size is on my mains, looked in log and all I said was I installed he condors, didnt put six\ze. arent they 600-6? Charlie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym(at)aviating.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 22:44 Subject: Re: RV-List: Tires on 6a Only the Monster Retreads are larger. Their regular Desser retread is standard TSO size. I've been using them for 10 years on my Mooney...no issues with room in the wheel wells. Hedrick wrote: > Just make sure that the retreads will fit under your wheel pants. They > have a larger diameter. > > > Keith Hedrick > > 3LF > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Larry Bowen > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:37 PM > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Tires on 6a > > > I like the retreads from Dresser. > > http://www.desser.com/ > > > -- > Larry Bowen > Larry(at)BowenAero.com > http://BowenAero.com > > On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:21 PM, charlie heathco > wrote: > > LAst preflight I decieded tires(mains)) were getting close to > replacement. they are Mich condors, instaled march 05 and rotated a > while back, seems the present side wore faster than orig. Looks like > they are about $20 more now t at spruuce than 4 years ago. Any > recomendatiuons as to better wearing brand and/or where to buy? Charlie H > > * * > > * * > > *t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List* > > *tp://forums.matronics.com* > > *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List* > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > 270.13.83/2353 - Release Date: 09/08/09 06:48:00 > > * > > > * Regards, Greg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Neal George" <n8zg(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: IO-540 Parts & Overhaul Manuals
Date: Sep 09, 2009
Listers - I need to tear into an IO-540-C4B5. Does anybody have electronic versions of the Parts and Overhaul manuals? Neal E. George 2023 Everglades Drive Navarre, FL 32566 H - 850-515-0640 C - 850-218-4838 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 09, 2009
From: Tom & Cathy Ervin <tcervin(at)embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: Tires on 6a
Goodyear Custom II....with Goodyear air stop tubes. Over 300 landings on my RV6-A and they look like new! =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Tom in Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: "charlie heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net> Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2009 10:21:44 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RV-List: Tires on 6a LAst preflight I decieded tires(mains))=C2-were getting close to replacem ent. they are Mich condors, instaled march 05 and rotated a while back, see ms the present side wore =C2-faster than orig. Looks like they are about $20 more now t at spruuce than 4 years ago. Any recomendatiuons as to bette === == ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: At long last, First Flight.
Date: Sep 09, 2009
No 21 Gallons per hour fuel flow on a cold morning. Normally fuel flow on max power take off on a nominal day is around 17.5 - 18 gph.. Yes, I believe that was the Powersport FWF package of a modified Mazda rotary engine. It reportedly produced 215 HP with a racing type Peripheral port intake, but I never saw fuel burn figures. There were two in Rv-8s - but, it was pretty clear these guys did not know how (at least at the time of the test) to properly lean a rotary for best economy - you can not hurt the rotary by leaning it too much - the power will decrease due to the lesser fuel flow but that's it. I lean my rotary during cruise so much that the air/fuel ratio indication runs off the lean end of the scale. But, with the newer Renesis Mazda engine the fuel and power are incrementally better than the old 13B model that I fly with. However, we are all waiting for Mazda to bring out their completely new and larger 16X which they have shown and has been reported on. It will be approx 30 lbs lighter due to them switching from iron to aluminum side housings and will produce approx 30 -40 more HP than the current model. So 30 lbs lighter and 30 more HP should really make a difference. Now If I only live long enough to see it appear {:>) - it'll probably be the last major change to my installation. Best Regards Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com <http://www.andersonee.com> http://www.andersonee.com <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ <http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of charlie heathco Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 8:33 AM Subject: Re: Rotary HP was: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. 21 GPH? did you mean 12? A year or so ago I remember reading an article, maybe kitplanes, on a comparison trial between a lyc powered and a rotarty, but dont remember wich modle or HP, you recall? Charlie ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed <mailto:eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> Anderson Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 07:13 Subject: Rotary HP was: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Based on Fuel Flow and performance I would estimate between 170 and 180 HP on a normal day. It does considerably better when it has cold dense air and I have seen fuel flow of 21 GPH on a cold day. I guess we'll just have to get Mike and Tracy to do a fly off {:>). I do know the three rotor is capable of around 300 HP without a turbo - we'll have to wait and see what Tracy gets out of it, but I would be very surprised if it isn't at least 275 -280 HP range. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com <http://www.andersonee.com> http://www.andersonee.com <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ <http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of charlie heathco Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:35 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Thanks Ed, sorry I couldnt think of your name. I remember yourr storyu about your long dead stick landing a few years ago. How many HP does your rotary have? Aslo Do you know how Tracy's engind stacks up against Mikes 540 in his super 8? Charlie Heathco ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed <mailto:eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> Anderson Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 07:47 Subject: RE: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Thanks Chas, Tracy and I have know each other since about 1995 - and I was delighted to see his third rotary engine type (a three rotor capable of 300 HP) powering his new RV-8. His light weight rotary powered RV-4 was the winner of the Sun & Fun 100 air race back in 2003 or so, I expect the Rv-8 follows in its smaller brother's footsteps. Tracy's RV-8 is truly an impressive bit of engineering with the equipment and changes he has made. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com <http://www.andersonee.com> http://www.andersonee.com <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ <http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of charlie heathco Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:41 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. OK, Tracy, there is a guy in NC with a rotary in a 6, cant think of his name right now, maybe he will respond, Chas ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracy <mailto:tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com> Crook Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 09:09 Subject: Re: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Thanks Charlie. The 'half throttle takeoff' was mainly a reaction to what happened in a previous test flight in my RV-4. I had changed the gear reduction drive to a higher ratio and installed a much longer prop turning the opposite direction. The higher ratio allowed the rotary to get further into its power band so I had significantly more power at takeoff ( running fixed pitch prop). Between the increased and opposite direction P factor, I almost crashed into the fence next to the runway on takeoff (cleared it by inches). I learned to feed throttle in gradually rather than firewalling it immediately as I had done in the past. That was with a 200 HP engine so I was a little paranoid with 300 HP on tap. On the -8 I also fed throttle gradually but stopped when the fuel flow reached the same rate as the smaller engine at WOT in the -4 . Assuming all other things being equal, a big engine will burn about the same amount of fuel as a small one when making the same power. That was the goal on this first takeoff. I'll explore the extra 100 HP later. On rotary engines it is important to measure oil temperature after the oil cooler just before it enters the engine because the rotors are 100% cooled by oil flow. It is mainly an O-ring in the oil control rings that get damaged by high oil temps. Not catastrophic but high oil consumption results and requires a complete teardown to replace the O-rings. Rotors have combustion chambers on three faces and they don't get a whole revolution just to cool off like a piston does. But on the other hand they are made of iron instead of aluminum. The oil temps are typically 40 degrees higher in the pan prior to going through the cooler. I'm guessing Lyc's oil temp is measured in the pan. On a 'perfect' rotary cooling system, we'd like to see 180 F on both oil and coolant. Tracy Crook On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 7:41 AM, charlie heathco wrote: Congrats on first flight. Im curious about taking off with 1/2 thotle? Is this something common to the rotary? Re "hight temps" 200 deg on oil is not a problem with Lyc's, and seems car engine temps on coolant run that high or even higher? Charlie H ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracy Crook <mailto:tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com> Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 20:44 Subject: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Today there was nothing left to do on the Mazda 20B powered RV-8 but flight test it. For those of you not familiar with the rotary engine, The 20B is a 3 rotor version of the 13B which powered the Mazda RX-7. The 20B makes about 300 HP in normally aspirated form. (it was turbocharged in the Japanese car it came from (never sold in the US). I've been flying an RV-4 with the Mazda 13B two rotor engine for 15 years, 1850 hrs. TT. Very hot day (93 F and high humidity) but ground tests of the cooling system had gone so well that I was confident of cooling in flight. Installed the radio and transponder in the panel (which for some reason I had neglected to do until this morning) and they both worked with no problems, which is always a surprise. High speed taxi tests had already been completed and the P-factor was no worse than the RV-4, in fact I think it has less. This may be premature because I haven't done a full throttle takeoff yet. The RV-8 has 1.25 degrees right offset which I think helps a lot. The RV-4 has no offset. First flight was done without wheel pants or main gear intersection fairings. Just to make sure there were no surprises, takeoff was done at the same fuel flow as the RV-4 at WOT. I didn't note the manifold pressure but the throttle quadrant was barely over 1/2 throttle. Ground run on the -8 feels more stable than the -4 with considerably more rudder authority (it's physically bigger so no surprise). The plane broke ground at about the same point as the -4 but it feels like it levitates off rather than rotates off. Probably due to the higher wing incidence on the ground than the -4 with the short gear legs but also due to the longer wing. I had extended both wings by about 18" so the wing loading and span loading are less than on the -4. It has about 13% more wing area than stock. This was actually the second time the -8 had air under the tires since it had floated off ground about a foot once before during a high speed taxi test. Airspeed was increasing rapidly after lift off but the ASI was not matching the visual ques. Normally I expect to see 120 mph at the end of the runway (2700 ft) but ASI shows only 80. Too late to abort but the airplane is climbing & sounding very nice. I had been doing a lot of seat-of-the pants takeoff and simulated dead stick landings (in the -4) in anticipation of today's tests so I would feel comfortable in the event of partial or complete panel failure (Blue Mountain EFIS1 with only a standard ASI for backup). Climb to 1000 feet felt effortless even after throttling back to 8 GPH. I notice that I'm hunting for information and not absorbing much due to the very different instrument panel. Remembering that the EFIS1 has the primary ASI in a speed ribbon format, I hunt for it and see 0 MPH when I finally find it. The EM2 (an RWS engine monitor with backup ASI, VSI & Altitude) shows the same airspeed as the Van's steam gauge, now about 100 MPH. First squawk of the flight and this means I will do the first landing sans airspeed indicator. I can't seem to locate the GPS ground speed on the display either. Glad I did all that practice. Time to settle in and start evaluating engine performance. I had taken off with the engine fairly warm so I was not surprised to see oil & water temps nearing 190 F after climbout. I continue collecting data hoping the temps will start coming down but it is soon apparent that they are stabilizing at about 200 on both oil and coolant. Very disappointing, since they had been well below this on the ground when at the same fuel flow I was currently flying at (I had backed it down to 5.75 gph by this time). The plane itself is flying beautifully. The aileron trim is able to trim out a very slight left wing heavy tendency and the ship feels like it is gliding through the air effortlessly. Again, no surprise, the plane feels just like an RV (Magnificent!). At this speed (guessing about 135 mph) the roll response is only slightly slower than the -4. The ailerons were extended with the wing so the RV feel has been preserved. I've completed a wide circuit of the pattern and in position to make an approach so I throttle back and I can immediately tell that the glide ratio is significantly higher than the -4. The longer wing is having more effect than I thought it would even with the heavier engine. This -8 with a 20B ended up weighing about 70 pounds more than the average one equipped with an 0 - 360 and fixed pitch prop and about the same as one equipped with an IO - 360 with constant speed prop. Empty weight (but with oil) is 1150 lbs. All the attention to weight control has paid off. I throttle up for a go around and the FBW throttle responds well, no detectable throttle lag at all. The higher than expected oil and water temps are distracting me from data gathering (Rats, I haven't had time to replace the EM2 with a data logging EM3 yet) so I make a few more circuits of the field and setup for an approach. I crank in more flaps early to kill off the airspeed and excess glide ratio and intentionally do not look at the ASI to avoid being confused. Wheel landing touchdown is perfect and now I glance at the ASI and see 40 MPH. Obviously wrong. All in all, a great first flight. The RV-8 is going to be exactly the airplane I was hoping for. Still a lot of testing and tweaking to do. Tracy Crook href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List a>http://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: FW: [FlyRotary] looking for a project
Date: Sep 09, 2009
A friend of mine is looking for an RV-10 project that someone may be interested in selling. He is planning for installation of a 240 HP Turboprop. Anyone interested in more information please contact Marv Kay. His message below: We're looking for an Rv-10 airframe for a new engine project, something we can have ready for Sun'n'Fun 2010. Please email me at my private address (marv(at)lancair.net) if you have any leads. Anyone wanting more info should contact me at 386-295-9279. Exciting times. Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com <http://www.andersonee.com> http://www.andersonee.com <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ <http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> _____ From: marv(at)lancair.net [mailto:marv(at)lancair.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] looking for a project HI Ed, Please do... I don't participate over there. You might mention that this is to be a test bed for a brand new 240hp turboprop. Anyone wanting more info should contact me at 386-295-9279. Exciting times. Posted for "Ed Anderson" : Hi Marv, Is it OK if I post your message to the RV list unless of course you have already done that Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com Hi gang, Does anyone out there happen to know of a partially completed RV10 project that the builder needs to get out of? We're looking for an airframe for a new engine project, something we can have ready for Sun'n'Fun 2010. Please email me at my private address (marv(at)lancair.net) if you have any leads. -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 09, 2009
Subject: tip-up canopy weather stripping
From: thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com>
The wether stripping that came with my finish kit was so old the adhesive had dried up, so I ordered new stuff. There is a white colored "P" strip and and a dark brown tear-drop shape. My question is which one goes across the sub panel and which goes around the other edges of the canopy? I think the white P strip goes on the canopy sides and across the roll bar (I didn't make a targa strip) and the tear drop stuff goes infront across the sub panel. Is this right? -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A final assembly ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: IO-540 Parts & Overhaul Manuals
From: Michael W Stewart <mike.stewart(at)us.ibm.com>
Date: Sep 09, 2009
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From: "n801bh(at)netzero.com" <n801bh(at)netzero.com>
Date: Sep 10, 2009
Subject: Re: At long last, First Flight.
Congrats to you Tracy. Experimental engines are ALOT of work.... Don't a sk how I know either . As a side note here is a bizzare posting from some guy I have never met or even know... //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// This posting that was on the internet was forwarded to me by several fri ends....... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------ On the "801" =93This is an accident waiting to happen. The motor mount is incorrectly designed with un triangulated bays and bent tubes in tension and compre ssion. The firewall forward weight is at least 450 pounds aluminum block or no aluminum block. No mention is made of beefing up the fuselage to take the vastly increased bending loads during landing and high G turns not to mention the increased bending loads on the wing spars. Zenairs ar e not over designed to begin with having very thin skins. "The fuel burn is better then expected though and I am presently confirm ing the JPI 450 for accuracy. Cruise @ 11,000 msl is producing 5.9 0 -6. 3 gallons an hour." The numbers quoted above shows a lack of understanding about engine engi neering in general. The fuel burn quoted at 6 gallons an hour or 37 poun ds an hour means the engine is only generating 83 HP giving it the benef it of a BSFC number of .45. In the unlikely event the BSFC is as low as .40 the HP then would be 93 HP at the absolute maximum. Now you have a 4 50 pound firewall forward weight putting out 93 HP at cruise. Something is seriously wrong. "The numbers I am shooting for are one pound of engine weight for each horsepower and a small total engine profile that will fit in most airfr ames." What he is saying here is he things he is going to get 350 to 400 HP wit h a 1.43:1 PSRU ratio. With a 2600 RPM prop that is 3700 engine RPM. No way is that going to happen. This person is totally clueless. I am really worried here. Probably one of the most dangerous airplanes I have seen in a very long time. Paul Lamar=94 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't know who this "person" is or what his qualifications, but.. I am compelled to answer his hatchet job on every topic. My project is a one of a kind. I had no group, forum or any other source to go to during the design, and test flying of my experimental aircraft , so all the calculations, fabrications and installations are a one off and done to the best of my ability using past life experiences from fabr icating stuff on race boats, cars and god only knows whatever I have mod ified in earlier years. I built my plane, 3000 + hours of MY time. I didn't but a half built one , or a completed one to use a test bed for my powerplant. I have been fl ying for almost 30 years and owned several other planes. My experimental plane has been flying for 5 years and 300 hours. Bee n flown in air from 97f to -37f. Has over 500 landing, been flown from JAC, 6430 msl to 18,000 feet, full throttle, !! over a couple of dozen times to test it for strength. Been flown in all other power settings to comfirm and quantify data. Tested to +3.5g's to - 2.5 g's. Flown to OSH and back... not trucked there as others seem to do to display their cre ations. My responses.. 1- When is this " accident" going to happen ?? 2- The mount is designed by me using triangulation, just go to my web si te and look at the pics. 3- There are NO bent tubes in my mount. there are intersecting angles bu t that happens on ALL mounts. At those intersections the area is beefed up internally. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean crap. 4- I know EXACTLY what it weighs. I don't guess like he seems to. And it is less then his "estimation" 5- Of course I beefed up the airframe as I built it. Just because I didn 't state that on my website should not give him a pass at a free shot. 6- Zenith Aircraft seem to be an "issue" to him. Mine has twice the "su ggested" HP and still has not broken in half. 7- The plane has so much power that at cruise I can throttle back to ALO T.. A 801 has alot of aerodynamic drag. I can run 90@ 6.4 GPH or 110@ 17 GPH. The plane hits a brick wall so why burn three times the fuel to go a little faster. If I wanted to go fast I would have built another type plane. You would think a guy like him could draw a simple conclusion. 8- I have probably built, raced and tested more engines hen he can dream about. 9- BSFC of .45 ??? Jeez. I would be embarrased to tune a motor that ri ch. 10- Nothing is " seriously wrong"............. I am seriously throttled back. 11- The motor is capable of 600 + Hp in different trim. ie, different re drive ratio, different intake design, etc. The motor will not gain any m ore weight by changing componants, so 350-400 Hp is a no brainer.. On MY plane I purposely stayed with 1.43-1 because it for sure doen not need any more power. 12- Where did he get the 3700 RPM # from ? I turn the motor alot highe r then that on take off. Yeah, the prop is kinda noisy but nothing worse then what noise a seaplane makes with a large diameter prop. 13- """ Totally Clueless""" Ya wanna bet.. And in closing all I can add is " I am really worried here. Probably one of the most dangerous airplanes I have seen in a very long time. " Geez... Where was he 5 years and 300 hours ago ??????. Ben Haas. Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ____________________________________________________________ Top brands, low prices. Find the right air conditioner for you. Click No w! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYTR2RTjYYOtEEUpWFyp DeOtPURJ5u1f8jvGC6BSZNUaMTx6s7yB3K/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 10, 2009
Subject: Re: At long last, First Flight.
From: Tracy Crook <tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com>
Thanks! It's always interesting to hear these critiques by Mr. Lamar : ) I know what you mean about the misunderstanding concerning fuel burn at cruise. Part of it is the assumption that cruise is always done at 75% power. The planes we build are generally hotrods compared to a lot of GA planes and the flight envelop includes a much wider spread of useful throttle settings. I wonder what he would have said about my 300 HP engin e burning 5.75 GPH : ) Of COURSE it wasn't making 75% of 300 HP at that time. Hell, when I'm just going up for an evening flight to watch the sun set I'm usually burning 3.8 GPH in my -4. I often get questions like "Aren't you worried about exceeding Vne with tha t big engine?". It's like there is an assumption that the throttle MUST be a t WOT. In truth, I will never be able to use all 300 HP the 20B is capable of. In level flight at SL I'm sure it will easily exceed Vne at WOT so can't use it there. I have a fixed pitch prop so I'll only see about 245 H P in climb at Vy due to rpm being lower. The main idea behind the 20B engin e was to have around 125 HP left when up in class A airspace. That's where the longer wing earns its keep as well. Don't sweat those words from such 'experts'. Keep on Experimenting! Tracy Crook On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 10:09 AM, n801bh(at)netzero.com wr ote: > Congrats to you Tracy. Experimental engines are ALOT of work.... Don't as k > how I know either . > > As a side note here is a bizzare posting from some guy I have never met o r > even know... > > > ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > > > This posting that was on the internet was forwarded to me by several > friends....... > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > On the "801" > > =93This is an accident waiting to happen. The motor mount is incorrectly > designed with un triangulated bays and bent tubes in tension and > compression. The firewall forward weight is at least 450 pounds aluminum > block or no aluminum block. No mention is made of beefing up the fuselage to > take the vastly increased bending loads during landing and high G turns n ot > to mention the increased bending loads on the wing spars. Zenairs are not > over designed to begin with having very thin skins. > > "The fuel burn is better then expected though and I am presently confirmi ng > the JPI 450 for accuracy. Cruise @ 11,000 msl is producing 5.9 0 -6.3 > gallons an hour." > > The numbers quoted above shows a lack of understanding about engine > engineering in general. The fuel burn quoted at 6 gallons an hour or 37 > pounds an hour means the engine is only generating 83 HP giving it the > benefit of a BSFC number of .45. In the unlikely event the BSFC is as low as > .40 the HP then would be 93 HP at the absolute maximum. Now you have a 45 0 > pound firewall forward weight putting out 93 HP at cruise. > > Something is seriously wrong. > > "The numbers I am shooting for are one pound of engine weight for each > horsepower and a small total engine profile that will fit in most > airframes." > > What he is saying here is he things he is going to get 350 to 400 HP with a > 1.43:1 PSRU ratio. With a 2600 RPM prop that is 3700 engine RPM. No way i s > that going to happen. > > This person is totally clueless. > > I am really worried here. Probably one of the most dangerous airplanes I > have seen in a very long time. > > Paul Lamar=94 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I don't know who this "person" is or what his qualifications, but.. > > I am compelled to answer his hatchet job on every topic. > > My project is a one of a kind. I had no group, forum or any other source to > go to during the design, and test flying of my experimental aircraft, so all > the calculations, fabrications and installations are a one off and done t o > the best of my ability using past life experiences from fabricating stuff on > race boats, cars and god only knows whatever I have modified in earlier > years. > > I built my plane, 3000 + hours of MY time. I didn't but a half built one, > or a completed one to use a test bed for my powerplant. I have been flyin g > for almost 30 years and owned several other planes. > > My experimental plane has been flying for 5 years and 300 hours. Been > flown in air from 97f to -37f. Has over 500 landing, been flown from JA C, > 6430 msl to 18,000 feet, full throttle, !! over a couple of dozen times t o > test it for strength. Been flown in all other power settings to comfirm a nd > quantify data. Tested to +3.5g's to - 2.5 g's. Flown to OSH and back... n ot > trucked there as others seem to do to display their creations. > > My responses.. > > 1- When is this " accident" going to happen ?? > > 2- The mount is designed by me using triangulation, just go to my web sit e > and look at the pics. > > 3- There are NO bent tubes in my mount. there are intersecting angles but > that happens on ALL mounts. At those intersections the area is beefed up > internally. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean crap. > > 4- I know EXACTLY what it weighs. I don't guess like he seems to. And it is > less then his "estimation" > > 5- Of course I beefed up the airframe as I built it. Just because I didn' t > state that on my website should not give him a pass at a free shot. > > 6- Zenith Aircraft seem to be an "issue" to him. Mine has twice the > "suggested" HP and still has not broken in half. > > 7- The plane has so much power that at cruise I can throttle back to ALOT .. > A 801 has alot of aerodynamic drag. I can run 90@ 6.4 GPH or 110@ 17 GPH. > The plane hits a brick wall so why burn three times the fuel to go a litt le > faster. If I wanted to go fast I would have built another type plane. You > would think a guy like him could draw a simple conclusion. > > 8- I have probably built, raced and tested more engines hen he can dream > about. > > 9- BSFC of .45 ??? Jeez. I would be embarrased to tune a motor that ric h. > > > 10- Nothing is " seriously wrong"............. I am seriously throttled > back. > > 11- The motor is capable of 600 + Hp in different trim. ie, different > redrive ratio, different intake design, etc. The motor will not gain any > more weight by changing componants, so 350-400 Hp is a no brainer.. On MY > plane I purposely stayed with 1.43-1 because it for sure doen not need an y > more power. > > 12- Where did he get the 3700 RPM # from ? I turn the motor alot higher > then that on take off. Yeah, the prop is kinda noisy but nothing worse th en > what noise a seaplane makes with a large diameter prop. > > 13- """ Totally Clueless""" Ya wanna bet.. > > And in closing all I can add is > " I am really worried here. Probably one of the most dangerous airplanes I > have seen in a very long time. " > > Geez... Where was he 5 years and 300 hours ago ??????. > > > Ben Haas. > > > Ben Haas > N801BH > www.haaspowerair.com > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Top brands, low prices. Find the right air conditioner for you. Click Now !<http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2242/fc/BLSrjpYTR2RTjYYOtEEUpWFypD eOtPURJ5u1f8jvGC6BSZNUaMTx6s7yB3K/> > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "n801bh(at)netzero.com" <n801bh(at)netzero.com>
Date: Sep 11, 2009
Subject: Re: At long last, First Flight.
Thanks for the support Tracy. I did google his name a few days ago and f ound out about his Rotary board. I joined and have been reading the most "entertaining" comments he makes. To be fair I did email this to him fi rst to give him a chance to respond,,, something he didn't give me, but unfortunately it appears my response was deleted so his readers could no t view it. Wanna bet they will see it elsewhere ?? Oh yeah, it als o appears I have been BANNED from his forum too. Yippee. !!!! Tailwinds guys. Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Tracy Crook <tracy(at)rotaryaviation.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: At long last, First Flight. Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:24:06 -0400 Thanks! It's always interesting to hear these critiques by Mr. Lamar : ) I know what you mean about the misunderstanding concerning fuel burn at cruise. Part of it is the assumption that cruise is always done at 75% power. The planes we build are generally hotrods compared to a lot of G A planes and the flight envelop includes a much wider spread of useful t hrottle settings. I wonder what he would have said about my 300 HP eng ine burning 5.75 GPH : ) Of COURSE it wasn't making 75% of 300 HP at th at time. Hell, when I'm just going up for an evening flight to watch th e sun set I'm usually burning 3.8 GPH in my -4. I often get questions like "Aren't you worried about exceeding Vne with that big engine?". It's like there is an assumption that the throttle M UST be at WOT. In truth, I will never be able to use all 300 HP the 20B is capable of. In level flight at SL I'm sure it will easily exceed Vn e at WOT so can't use it there. I have a fixed pitch prop so I'll only see about 245 HP in climb at Vy due to rpm being lower. The main idea behind the 20B engine was to have around 125 HP left when up in class A airspace. That's where the longer wing earns its keep as well. Don't sweat those words from such 'experts'. Keep on Experimenting! Tracy Crook On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 10:09 AM, n801bh(at)netzero.com wrote: Congrats to you Tracy. Experimental engines are ALOT of work.... Don't a sk how I know either . As a side note here is a bizzare posting from some guy I have never met or even know... //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// This posting that was on the internet was forwarded to me by several fri ends....... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------ On the "801" =93This is an accident waiting to happen. The motor mount is incorrectly designed with un triangulated bays and bent tubes in tension and compre ssion. The firewall forward weight is at least 450 pounds aluminum block or no aluminum block. No mention is made of beefing up the fuselage to take the vastly increased bending loads during landing and high G turns not to mention the increased bending loads on the wing spars. Zenairs ar e not over designed to begin with having very thin skins. "The fuel burn is better then expected though and I am presently confirm ing the JPI 450 for accuracy. Cruise @ 11,000 msl is producing 5.9 0 -6. 3 gallons an hour." The numbers quoted above shows a lack of understanding about engine engi neering in general. The fuel burn quoted at 6 gallons an hour or 37 poun ds an hour means the engine is only generating 83 HP giving it the benef it of a BSFC number of .45. In the unlikely event the BSFC is as low as .40 the HP then would be 93 HP at the absolute maximum. Now you have a 4 50 pound firewall forward weight putting out 93 HP at cruise. Something is seriously wrong. "The numbers I am shooting for are one pound of engine weight for each horsepower and a small total engine profile that will fit in most airfr ames." What he is saying here is he things he is going to get 350 to 400 HP wit h a 1.43:1 PSRU ratio. With a 2600 RPM prop that is 3700 engine RPM. No way is that going to happen. This person is totally clueless. I am really worried here. Probably one of the most dangerous airplanes I have seen in a very long time. Paul Lamar=94 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't know who this "person" is or what his qualifications, but.. I am compelled to answer his hatchet job on every topic. My project is a one of a kind. I had no group, forum or any other source to go to during the design, and test flying of my experimental aircraft , so all the calculations, fabrications and installations are a one off and done to the best of my ability using past life experiences from fabr icating stuff on race boats, cars and god only knows whatever I have mod ified in earlier years. I built my plane, 3000 + hours of MY time. I didn't but a half built one , or a completed one to use a test bed for my powerplant. I have been fl ying for almost 30 years and owned several other planes. My experimental plane has been flying for 5 years and 300 hours. Bee n flown in air from 97f to -37f. Has over 500 landing, been flown from JAC, 6430 msl to 18,000 feet, full throttle, !! over a couple of dozen times to test it for strength. Been flown in all other power settings to comfirm and quantify data. Tested to +3.5g's to - 2.5 g's. Flown to OSH and back... not trucked there as others seem to do to display their cre ations. My responses.. 1- When is this " accident" going to happen ?? 2- The mount is designed by me using triangulation, just go to my web si te and look at the pics. 3- There are NO bent tubes in my mount. there are intersecting angles bu t that happens on ALL mounts. At those intersections the area is beefed up internally. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean crap. 4- I know EXACTLY what it weighs. I don't guess like he seems to. And it is less then his "estimation" 5- Of course I beefed up the airframe as I built it. Just because I didn 't state that on my website should not give him a pass at a free shot. 6- Zenith Aircraft seem to be an "issue" to him. Mine has twice the "su ggested" HP and still has not broken in half. 7- The plane has so much power that at cruise I can throttle back to ALO T.. A 801 has alot of aerodynamic drag. I can run 90@ 6.4 GPH or 110@ 17 GPH. The plane hits a brick wall so why burn three times the fuel to go a little faster. If I wanted to go fast I would have built another type plane. You would think a guy like him could draw a simple conclusion. 8- I have probably built, raced and tested more engines hen he can dream about. 9- BSFC of .45 ??? Jeez. I would be embarrased to tune a motor that ri ch. 10- Nothing is " seriously wrong"............. I am seriously throttled back. 11- The motor is capable of 600 + Hp in different trim. ie, different re drive ratio, different intake design, etc. The motor will not gain any m ore weight by changing componants, so 350-400 Hp is a no brainer.. On MY plane I purposely stayed with 1.43-1 because it for sure doen not need any more power. 12- Where did he get the 3700 RPM # from ? I turn the motor alot highe r then that on take off. Yeah, the prop is kinda noisy but nothing worse then what noise a seaplane makes with a large diameter prop. 13- """ Totally Clueless""" Ya wanna bet.. And in closing all I can add is " I am really worried here. Probably one of the most dangerous airplanes I have seen in a very long time. " Geez... Where was he 5 years and 300 hours ago ??????. Ben Haas. Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ____________________________________________________________ Top brands, low prices. Find the right air conditioner for you. Click No w! t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-Listtp://forums.matro nics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======= ____________________________________________________________ Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYSwrCZwVgzMOllfnNlG ZHXtvC31FLHxDO9j3lXO5XK36BA7KWARDi/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nosewheel vibration update
Date: Sep 10, 2009
From: jhnstniii(at)aol.com
Carl--Thank you!? We installed the MATCO nosewheel axle yesterday, carefully re-balanced the wheel/tire, and the vibration is gone. Why it works I don't know but it does.??The list rules! --LeRoy Johnston and David White RV-6A "Esperanza" (204 hours) -----Original Message----- From: Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> Sent: Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:20 pm Subject: RE: RV-List: Nosewheel vibration update Two things to try: 1.????? Install the MATCO nose wheel axle.? Here is the link: http://www.matcomfg.com/AXLEASSEMBLYA24125INCH-idv-3657-1.html? This allows for the axle bolt to be fully tighten without too much pre-load on the bearings.? This help my 8A nose gear problem. 2.????? Do the same balance on the main gear that you did on the nose gear.? I noted a significant improvement on the nose gear shimmy after I replace my main gear. ? Carl Froehlich RV-8A (525 hrs) RV-10 (fuselage) ? ? From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Orear Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:31 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Nosewheel vibration update ? This may seem rather rudimentary, but are you sure it is your nosewheel that is shimmying? ?I thought I had a nosewheel shake as well until a local pilot saw me land while waiting at the hold short line and reported that my left main was the culprit. ?I suspect uneven tire wear, but balancing out the wheel/tire resulted in some improvement. ?I plan to replace the main tires/tubes at next conditional inspection. ? Just a thought. ? ? ? Regards, ? Jeff Orear RV6A ?N782P Peshtigo, WI ? ? On Aug 30, 2009, at 1:21 PM, jhnstniii(at)aol.com wrote: Listers--Promised I would report on our efforts to stop the vertical vibration of our nosewheel/pant assembly. We started with the tire. We bought a motorcycle wheel balancer (simple rod rolling on ball bearing supports type) and immediately noticed the tire was quite out of round and out of balance.?We thought "problem solved" and bought a new tire.?This one was round.?We added weights until it was balanced, and?during taxi testing were surprised to find there was no improvement.? We then tried different combinations of tire pressure and bearing torque (within the required limits).?The best was with very low tire pressure and medium torque, but we still had the problem at?20 mph or more.? So?then we glassed?a piece of wood (with four layers of medium weight glass) on to the leg from the bend at the bottom up to where it enters the cowling, hoping to change the vibration characteristics.?No improvement!? I wonde r if a little lead in the nose or tail of the pant might help (t he pant is balanced fore and aft right now so doing this would actually?unbalance it). We are running out of ideas. One of our hangar buddies was up at OSH watching the RVs taxi by for takeoff and he said many of them had vibrating nosewheels. We have the new type nosewheel fork. Don't know if there is a vibrational difference between this type and the old type. Any ideas? Thanks. LeRoy Johnston and David White RV-6A N176LD Esperanza 200+ hours flying.???????????????? ? href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ? ? ? ? http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2009
Subject: drilling out cherry max rivet
From: thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com>
I have to drill out a couple cherry max rivets. In the past I have first driven out the central shaft and then it is easily drilled out. But these 2 are being difficult. I figure I'm not doing the right way. What's the best thing to use to drive out the shaft? Should I try to drill it out a bit first with a small diameter drill and then hit the shaft? Any suggestions would be appreciated. -- Tom Sargent ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2009
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: drilling out cherry max rivet
Tom, The bugger with these things is that the center shaft is of a harder material than the remainder of the rivet. Depending on where the shaft broke when it was being pulled, you may not need to drive it out. In one case, I used a broken drill bit (with the broken end squared off) as a punch to drive out the mandrel (shaft). In another case, the mandrel broke off deeper inside and I was able to use progressively larger bits to drill out the head - start small so you're taking off minimal material with each successive drilling and the rivet has less of a tendency to spin. YMMV, Ralph -----Original Message----- >From: thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> >Sent: Sep 11, 2009 9:39 AM >To: rv-list >Subject: RV-List: drilling out cherry max rivet > >I have to drill out a couple cherry max rivets. In the past I have first >driven out the central shaft and then it is easily drilled out. But these 2 >are being difficult. I figure I'm not doing the right way. >What's the best thing to use to drive out the shaft? >Should I try to drill it out a bit first with a small diameter drill and >then hit the shaft? > >Any suggestions would be appreciated. > >-- >Tom Sargent ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2009
From: RICHARD MILLER <rickpegser(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: drilling out cherry max rivet
a properly set cherry has a locking ring that is holding the the stem, cherries can be a pain to drill, for a button head i have always found it easier to sand the tops flat with a die grinder before i have to drill them. else make sure that you center punch them well before you start drilling. and use a short 3/32 punch the standard lenght punch is not strong enough and they bend/break. cut one down to about 3/8 of an inch. rick --- On Fri, 9/11/09, thomas sargent wrote: > From: thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> > Subject: RV-List: drilling out cherry max rivet > To: "rv-list" > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 6:39 AM > I have to drill out a couple cherry max > rivets. In the past I have first driven out the central > shaft and then it is easily drilled out. But these 2 are > being difficult. I figure I'm not doing the right > way. > > What's the best thing to use to drive out the > shaft?Should I try to drill it out a bit first > with a small diameter drill and then hit the > shaft? > Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > > -- > Tom Sargent > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2009
Subject: I'd like to know 2 crates could hold a complete rv6a kit
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Nope! It will be a three crate kit as the canoopy and stuff will be a crate by itself. There are some guys who will move it if it is in a crate and its reasonable. Check the web sites. Jim ____________________________________________________________ Click now and enjoy a fantastic vacation in the wine country. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTHhwiffR04YRRjGBVo1CQPfUWzNMGtftOS6xDRgKbcwHyZlnhwVRe/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2009
Subject: Re: drilling out cherry max rivet
From: peter laurence <peterlaurence6(at)gmail.com>
This is the way I do it: Drill into the locking ring. Dislodge it with a drift or similar tool. Knock the pin out. Drill out the head of the rivet like you would do with a solid rivet. Pop off the head and punch the remaining rivet through with a drift. Peter On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 9:39 AM, thomas sargent wrote: > I have to drill out a couple cherry max rivets. In the past I have first > driven out the central shaft and then it is easily drilled out. But these 2 > are being difficult. I figure I'm not doing the right way. > What's the best thing to use to drive out the shaft? > Should I try to drill it out a bit first with a small diameter drill and > then hit the shaft? > > Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > -- > Tom Sargent > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2009
Subject: Re: drilling out cherry max rivet
From: thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com>
Peter: Not sure what you mean there. Which end is the "locking ring" on? Do I drill on the factory head end or the shop head end? On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:33 PM, peter laurence wrote: > This is the way I do it: > Drill into the locking ring. Dislodge it with a drift or similar tool. > Knock the pin out. Drill out the head of the rivet like you would do with a > solid rivet. Pop off the head and punch the remaining rivet through with a > drift. > > Peter > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 9:39 AM, thomas sargent wrote: > >> I have to drill out a couple cherry max rivets. In the past I have first >> driven out the central shaft and then it is easily drilled out. But these 2 >> are being difficult. I figure I'm not doing the right way. >> What's the best thing to use to drive out the shaft? >> Should I try to drill it out a bit first with a small diameter drill and >> then hit the shaft? >> >> Any suggestions would be appreciated. >> >> -- >> Tom Sargent >> >> * >> >> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > -- Tom Sargent ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2009
Subject: Re: drilling out cherry max rivet
From: peter laurence <peterlaurence6(at)gmail.com>
Check this website. http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html <http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html>Scroll down to" installing and removing Cherrymax rivets." This should clear it up. Tight Turns Peter On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:56 PM, thomas sargent wrote: > Peter: > Not sure what you mean there. Which end is the "locking ring" on? Do I > drill on the factory head end or the shop head end? > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:33 PM, peter laurence wrote: > >> This is the way I do it: >> Drill into the locking ring. Dislodge it with a drift or similar tool. >> Knock the pin out. Drill out the head of the rivet like you would do with a >> solid rivet. Pop off the head and punch the remaining rivet through with a >> drift. >> >> Peter >> >> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 9:39 AM, thomas sargent wrote: >> >>> I have to drill out a couple cherry max rivets. In the past I have first >>> driven out the central shaft and then it is easily drilled out. But these 2 >>> are being difficult. I figure I'm not doing the right way. >>> What's the best thing to use to drive out the shaft? >>> Should I try to drill it out a bit first with a small diameter drill and >>> then hit the shaft? >>> >>> Any suggestions would be appreciated. >>> >>> -- >>> Tom Sargent >>> >>> * >>> >>> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >>> tp://forums.matronics.com >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> * >>> >>> >> > > > -- > Tom Sargent > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2009
From: halbenjamin(at)optonline.net
Subject: Re: drilling out cherry max rivet
Hi Tom, I've found that you can use a sanding disk in a die grinder to sand the locking end (shop head) down a to the point that you can drive the pin out with a spring loaded center punch. Just sand off enough of the shop head to release some of the stem's friction. I use an old punch that no longer has it's point attached. I stick a used cherry max stem in the punch where the point used to be & drive the stem out of the rivet. It takes about 10 or 20 snaps with the punch, but it's easier on the surrounding structures. Then as you know, it's easy to drill out the rest. Good luck. Hal Benjamin - RV4 Long Island, NY ----- Original Message ----- From: thomas sargent Date: Friday, September 11, 2009 9:59 am Subject: RV-List: drilling out cherry max rivet > I have to drill out a couple cherry max rivets. In the past I > have first > driven out the central shaft and then it is easily drilled out. > But these 2 > are being difficult. I figure I'm not doing the right way. > What's the best thing to use to drive out the shaft? > Should I try to drill it out a bit first with a small diameter > drill and > then hit the shaft? > > Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > -- > Tom Sargent > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
From: Jeff Bertsch <noms1reqd(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Waterproofing RV-4's
My RV-4 can't fly through rain.- It leaks terribly the forward edge of th e tip over canopy.- I've tried various seals, the latest being a V-shaped seal.- Does anyone know how to really waterproof the RV-4? - Jeff Bertsch Houston=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: rveighta(at)comcast.net
Subject: Engine Hesitation
I have a Lycoming IO-360 in my RV8A which=C2- exhibits an engine hesitanc y or "stumble" that is proving very difficult to diagnose. This problem shows up when taxiing back in after a flight, and in an RPM ra nge of 750-1300. In flight there is no evidence of a stumble, and no stumble at initial start up, taxiing out for take off or during run- up. In other words, the engine only exhibits this behavior when it is warm. I have talked to some very knowledgable folks and have tried several things : (1) Reset the idle mixture, (2) removed and cleaned the servo finger screen, (3) removed the nozzles and placed them in a cup of ac etone, which was then placed in a sonic cleaner for about an hour. After the nozzles were reinstalled, I test flew the plane and the stumble was gone. However, a subsequent test flight revealed that although the engine was running much smoother, an occasional stumble w as still there. Additional facts: Oil temps are normal (around 180 deg F) Compression test is normal (all cylinders mid 70's) I'm using a Catto 3 blade prop Any and all suggestions you may have will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Walt Shipley ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Hesitation
This type of troubleshooting forces you back to basics. Air, spark, fuel in right proportions at right time. When the engine is hot, vapor bubbles in fuel lines are possible. Tight valve stem to guide clearance(minor valve sticking) is possible. Coil faults can show up with heat. Stumbles are usually a mixture problem, but you don't say if it happens with or without throttle movement. You don't say what time is on the engine. My guess is either some fuel boiling in the injector lines or a valve sticking, preventing sufficient mixture getting into the cylinder. Have you done a SB188 valve wobble check? Spark problems are less likely to be at low power and intermittent. rveighta(at)comcast.net wrote: > I have a Lycoming IO-360 in my RV8A which exhibits an engine hesitancy > or "stumble" that is proving very difficult to diagnose. > > This problem shows up when taxiing back in after a flight, and in an RPM > range of 750-1300. In flight there is no evidence of a stumble, > > and no stumble at initial start up, taxiing out for take off or during > run-up. In other words, the engine only exhibits this behavior when it > > is warm. > > > > I have talked to some very knowledgable folks and have tried several > things: (1) Reset the idle mixture, (2) removed and cleaned the > > servo finger screen, (3) removed the nozzles and placed them in a cup of > acetone, which was then placed in a sonic cleaner for about > > an hour. After the nozzles were reinstalled, I test flew the plane and > the stumble was gone. However, a subsequent test flight revealed > > that although the engine was running much smoother, an occasional > stumble was still there. > > > > Additional facts: > > > > Oil temps are normal (around 180 deg F) > > Compression test is normal (all cylinders mid 70's) > > I'm using a Catto 3 blade prop > > > > Any and all suggestions you may have will be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Walt Shipley > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Engine Hesitation
Sounds like you may have a minor case of Vapor-Lock. Like others, increasing the fuel flow makes it go away. Have you tried running your boost pump to see if that helps? There's been some discussion about this in the archives. -----Original Message----- >From: rveighta(at)comcast.net >Sent: Sep 14, 2009 8:56 AM >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Engine Hesitation > > >I have a Lycoming IO-360 in my RV8A which exhibits an engine hesitancy or "stumble" that is proving very difficult to diagnose. > >This problem shows up when taxiing back in after a flight, and in an RPM range of 750-1300. In flight there is no evidence of a stumble, > >and no stumble at initial start up, taxiing out for take off or during run-up. In other words, the engine only exhibits this behavior when it > >is warm. > > >I have talked to some very knowledgable folks and have tried several things: (1) Reset the idle mixture, (2) removed and cleaned the > >servo finger screen, (3) removed the nozzles and placed them in a cup of acetone, which was then placed in a sonic cleaner for about > >an hour. After the nozzles were reinstalled, I test flew the plane and the stumble was gone. However, a subsequent test flight revealed > >that although the engine was running much smoother, an occasional stumble was still there. > > >Additional facts: > > >Oil temps are normal (around 180 deg F) > >Compression test is normal (all cylinders mid 70's) > >I'm using a Catto 3 blade prop > > >Any and all suggestions you may have will be greatly appreciated. > > >Thanks, > > >Walt Shipley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Engine Hesitation
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Walt=2C have you tried checking for an intake leak. It can cause exactly what you are talking about. Mike Robertson Date: Mon=2C 14 Sep 2009 12:56:45 +0000 From: rveighta(at)comcast.net Subject: RV-List: Engine Hesitation I have a Lycoming IO-360 in my RV8A which exhibits an engine hesitancy or "stumble" that is proving very difficult to diagnose. This problem shows up when taxiing back in after a flight=2C and in an RPM range of 750-1300. In flight there is no evidence of a stumble=2C and no stumble at initial start up=2C taxiing out for take off or during ru n-up. In other words=2C the engine only exhibits this behavior when it is warm. I have talked to some very knowledgable folks and have tried several things : (1) Reset the idle mixture=2C (2) removed and cleaned the servo finger screen=2C (3) removed the nozzles and placed them in a cup of acetone=2C which was then placed in a sonic cleaner for about an hour. After the nozzles were reinstalled=2C I test flew the plane and th e stumble was gone. However=2C a subsequent test flight revealed that although the engine was running much smoother=2C an occasional stumble was still there. Additional facts: Oil temps are normal (around 180 deg F) Compression test is normal (all cylinders mid 70's) I'm using a Catto 3 blade prop Any and all suggestions you may have will be greatly appreciated. Thanks=2C Walt Shipley 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Subject: Denver area Hangar Space for Rent
From: L Klingmuller <klingmuller(at)gmail.com>
I have a very nice hangar space for rent at Front Range Airport (FTG). It is ideal for a second RV or similar plane. FTG is a user-friendly AO whic h has low gas prices and no waiting for taxing or takeoffs. Please give me a call at (303) 984-4469. Lothar Klingmuller, RV-6A ' 850 hrs. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: RICHARD MILLER <rickpegser(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Hesitation
walt kelly is right. a little more info is needed . you need to do 97-3 from start to finish to check the fuel system. pressures are critical. what are your chts. rick --- On Mon, 9/14/09, Kelly McMullen wrote: > From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Hesitation > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 6:57 AM > Kelly McMullen > > This type of troubleshooting forces you back to basics. > Air, spark, fuel in right proportions at right time. When > the engine is hot, vapor bubbles in fuel lines are possible. > Tight valve stem to guide clearance(minor valve sticking) is > possible. Coil faults can show up with heat. > Stumbles are usually a mixture problem, but you don't say > if it happens with or without throttle movement. You don't > say what time is on the engine. My guess is either some fuel > boiling in the injector lines or a valve sticking, > preventing sufficient mixture getting into the cylinder. > Have you done a SB188 valve wobble check? Spark problems are > less likely to be at low power and intermittent. > > rveighta(at)comcast.net > wrote: > > I have a Lycoming IO-360 in my RV8A which > exhibits an engine hesitancy or "stumble" that is proving > very difficult to diagnose. > > > > This problem shows up when taxiing back in after a > flight, and in an RPM range of 750-1300. In flight there is > no evidence of a stumble, > > > > and no stumble at initial start up, taxiing out for > take off or during run-up. In other words, the engine only > exhibits this behavior when it > > > > is warm. > > > > > > I have talked to some very knowledgable folks and have > tried several things: (1) Reset the idle mixture, (2) > removed and cleaned the > > > > servo finger screen, (3) removed the nozzles and > placed them in a cup of acetone, which was then placed in a > sonic cleaner for about > > > > an hour. After the nozzles were reinstalled, I test > flew the plane and the stumble was gone. However, a > subsequent test flight revealed > > > > that although the engine was running much smoother, an > occasional stumble was still there. > > > > > > Additional facts: > > > > > > Oil temps are normal (around 180 deg F) > > > > Compression test is normal (all cylinders mid 70's) > > > > I'm using a Catto 3 blade prop > > > > > > Any and all suggestions you may have will be greatly > appreciated. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Walt Shipley > > > > * > > > > > > * > > Forum - > FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: rveighta(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Engine Hesitation
Mike, I'm not sure what you mean by checking for an intake leak. How do you go about doing that? Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:21:26 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine Hesitation Walt, =C2- have you tried checking for an intake leak.=C2- It can cause exactly what you are talking about. =C2- Mike Robertson =C2- Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:56:45 +0000 From: rveighta(at)comcast.net Subject: RV-List: Engine Hesitation I have a Lycoming IO-360 in my RV8A which=C2- exhibits an engine hesitanc y or "stumble" that is proving very difficult to diagnose. This problem shows up when taxiing back in after a flight, and in an RPM ra nge of 750-1300. In flight there is no evidence of a stumble, and no stumble at initial start up, taxiing out for take off or during run- up. In other words, the engine only exhibits this behavior when it is warm. =C2- I have talked to some very knowledgable folks and have tried several things : (1) Reset the idle mixture, (2) removed and cleaned the servo finger screen, (3) removed the nozzles and placed them in a cup of ac etone, which was then placed in a sonic cleaner for about an hour. After the nozzles were reinstalled, I test flew the plane and the stumble was gone. However, a subsequent test flight revealed that although the engine was running much smoother, an occasional stumble w as still there. =C2- Additional facts: =C2- Oil temps are normal (around 180 deg F) Compression test is normal (all cylinders mid 70's) I'm using a Catto 3 blade prop =C2- Any and all suggestions you may have will be greatly appreciated. =C2- Thanks, =C2- Walt Shipley 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Li/' target='_new'>Sign up no =========== == ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: rveighta(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Engine Hesitation
Kelly, you're so right. This kind of problem does force you back to the bas ics. To give you a bit more info, the stumble doesn't occur when the throttle is pushed up; only at a steady setting. I have experimented with tie wrapping foam insulation around the injector l ines from the flow divider to the cylinders, but a test flight afterward revealed the pro blem was still there, so it appears fuel vaporization is not the culprit. Cylinder head temps are between 250-300 deg F on my Grand Rapids monitor. Total time on the engine is 750 TTSN and 300 STOH,=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-which included new valves. I have not done a SB188 valve wobble test. Thanks,=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym(at)aviating.com> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:57:54 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Hesitation This type of troubleshooting forces you back to basics. Air, spark, fuel in right proportions at right time. When the engine is hot, vapor bubbles in fuel lines are possible. Tight valve stem to guide clearance(minor valve sticking) is possible. Coil faults can show up with heat. Stumbles are usually a mixture problem, but you don't say if it happens with or without throttle movement. You don't say what time is on the engine. My guess is either some fuel boiling in the injector lines or a valve sticking, preventing sufficient mixture getting into the cylinder. Have you done a SB188 valve wobble check? Spark problems are less likely to be at low power and intermittent. rveighta(at)comcast.net wrote: > I have a Lycoming IO-360 in my RV8A which =C2-exhibits an engine hesita ncy > or "stumble" that is proving very difficult to diagnose. > > This problem shows up when taxiing back in after a flight, and in an RPM > range of 750-1300. In flight there is no evidence of a stumble, > > and no stumble at initial start up, taxiing out for take off or during > run-up. In other words, the engine only exhibits this behavior when it > > is warm. > > =C2- > > I have talked to some very knowledgable folks and have tried several > things: (1) Reset the idle mixture, (2) removed and cleaned the > > servo finger screen, (3) removed the nozzles and placed them in a cup of > acetone, which was then placed in a sonic cleaner for about > > an hour. After the nozzles were reinstalled, I test flew the plane and > the stumble was gone. However, a subsequent test flight revealed > > that although the engine was running much smoother, an occasional > stumble was still there. > > =C2- > > Additional facts: > > =C2- > > Oil temps are normal (around 180 deg F) > > Compression test is normal (all cylinders mid 70's) > > I'm using a Catto 3 blade prop > > =C2- > > Any and all suggestions you may have will be greatly appreciated. > > =C2- > > Thanks, > > =C2- > > Walt Shipley > > * > > > * =========== =========== MS - =========== e - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin. =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Engine Hesitation
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Walt=2C Try tightening all the clamps and bolts on the intake system from the oil s ump to the cylinder head and do a visual check on the rubber connectors for condition. If everything appears ok then=2C very carefully=2C spray soapy water on the intake system while the engine is running. You won't see bub bles because it is sucking but the engine will stumble if it a big leak=2C or you will see EGT and cylinder head temp changes. Mike Date: Mon=2C 14 Sep 2009 20:05:03 +0000 From: rveighta(at)comcast.net Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Hesitation Mike=2C I'm not sure what you mean by checking for an intake leak. How do y ou go about doing that? Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Monday=2C September 14=2C 2009 10:21:26 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Easte rn Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine Hesitation Walt=2C have you tried checking for an intake leak. It can cause exactly what you are talking about. Mike Robertson Date: Mon=2C 14 Sep 2009 12:56:45 +0000 From: rveighta(at)comcast.net Subject: RV-List: Engine Hesitation I have a Lycoming IO-360 in my RV8A which exhibits an engine hesitancy or "stumble" that is proving very difficult to diagnose. This problem shows up when taxiing back in after a flight=2C and in an RPM range of 750-1300. In flight there is no evidence of a stumble=2C and no stumble at initial start up=2C taxiing out for take off or during ru n-up. In other words=2C the engine only exhibits this behavior when it is warm. I have talked to some very knowledgable folks and have tried several things : (1) Reset the idle mixture=2C (2) removed and cleaned the servo finger screen=2C (3) removed the nozzles and placed them in a cup of acetone=2C which was then placed in a sonic cleaner for about an hour. After the nozzles were reinstalled=2C I test flew the plane and th e stumble was gone. However=2C a subsequent test flight revealed that although the engine was running much smoother=2C an occasional stumble was still there. Additional facts: Oil temps are normal (around 180 deg F) Compression test is normal (all cylinders mid 70's) I'm using a Catto 3 blade prop Any and all suggestions you may have will be greatly appreciated. Thanks=2C Walt Shipley 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Li/' target='_new'>Sign up no w. t=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Neal George" <n8zg(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Engine Hesitation
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Safest way is to connect the blower side of your shop vac to the intake and spray soapy water around all the joints looking for bubbles. There are more adventurous methods, but they present serious risk to life and limb neal From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rveighta(at)comcast.net Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 3:05 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Hesitation Mike, I'm not sure what you mean by checking for an intake leak. How do you go about doing that? Walt ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vincent Welch <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Engine Hesitation
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Walt=2C I know that it is off the subject but how did you end up with oil temps in the 180's? I also have an RV-8A with an IO-360-A1A and a Hartzell constant speed prop=2C I have one mag and one lightspeed ignition. On a warm day I will see 205 - 210 in cruise. The only time I see 180 is in the winter. My oil cooler is located behind #4 on the baffle. It has a 1" C-Channel st and off and is well sealed to the baffle. I have cleaned up as much as I c an=2C the baffle seal is good as evidenced by CHT's in the low to mid 300's . I even cut about two inches off the bottom of the cowl to open up the ex it a bit. How did you get 180's????? Vince Date: Mon=2C 14 Sep 2009 12:56:45 +0000 From: rveighta(at)comcast.net Subject: RV-List: Engine Hesitation I have a Lycoming IO-360 in my RV8A which exhibits an engine hesitancy or "stumble" that is proving very difficult to diagnose. This problem shows up when taxiing back in after a flight=2C and in an RPM range of 750-1300. In flight there is no evidence of a stumble=2C and no stumble at initial start up=2C taxiing out for take off or during ru n-up. In other words=2C the engine only exhibits this behavior when it is warm. I have talked to some very knowledgable folks and have tried several things : (1) Reset the idle mixture=2C (2) removed and cleaned the servo finger screen=2C (3) removed the nozzles and placed them in a cup of acetone=2C which was then placed in a sonic cleaner for about an hour. After the nozzles were reinstalled=2C I test flew the plane and th e stumble was gone. However=2C a subsequent test flight revealed that although the engine was running much smoother=2C an occasional stumble was still there. Additional facts: Oil temps are normal (around 180 deg F) Compression test is normal (all cylinders mid 70's) I'm using a Catto 3 blade prop Any and all suggestions you may have will be greatly appreciated. Thanks=2C Walt Shipley 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard McBride <rick.mcbride(at)me.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Hesitation
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Vince, Just as another point of reference, I have an IO360-A3B6D in my -8 with dual Lightspeed. It has a firewall mounted oil cooler (13 row if I recall). The plenum into the cooler has a butterfly valve. Without shutting the valve I rarely see temperatures about 200 degrees unless in a climb on a hot day. It's not uncommon that I have to close the valve partially to get temps to 180 or above. With the valve open on a warm day my temps are usually in the 170s. Rick McBride On Sep 14, 2009, at 6:28 PM, Vincent Welch wrote: > Walt, > > I know that it is off the subject but how did you end up with oil > temps in the 180's? I also have an RV-8A with an IO-360-A1A and a > Hartzell constant speed prop, I have one mag and one lightspeed > ignition. On a warm day I will see 205 - 210 in cruise. The only > time I see 180 is in the winter. My oil cooler is located behind #4 > on the baffle. It has a 1" C-Channel stand off and is well sealed > to the baffle. I have cleaned up as much as I can, the baffle seal > is good as evidenced by CHT's in the low to mid 300's. I even cut > about two inches off the bottom of the cowl to open up the exit a > bit. How did you get 180's????? > > Vince > > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:56:45 +0000 > From: rveighta(at)comcast.net > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Engine Hesitation > > I have a Lycoming IO-360 in my RV8A which exhibits an engine > hesitancy or "stumble" that is proving very difficult to diagnose. > This problem shows up when taxiing back in after a flight, and in an > RPM range of 750-1300. In flight there is no evidence of a stumble, > and no stumble at initial start up, taxiing out for take off or > during run-up. In other words, the engine only exhibits this > behavior when it > is warm. > > I have talked to some very knowledgable folks and have tried several > things: (1) Reset the idle mixture, (2) removed and cleaned the > servo finger screen, (3) removed the nozzles and placed them in a > cup of acetone, which was then placed in a sonic cleaner for about > an hour. After the nozzles were reinstalled, I test flew the plane > and the stumble was gone. However, a subsequent test flight revealed > that although the engine was running much smoother, an occasional > stumble was still there. > > Additional facts: > > Oil temps are normal (around 180 deg F) > Compression test is normal (all cylinders mid 70's) > I'm using a Catto 3 blade prop > > Any and all suggestions you may have will be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Walt Shipley > > > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > ====================== > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > ====================== > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > ====================== > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > ====================== > > > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Li/' target='_new'>Sign > up now. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: rveighta(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Engine Hesitation
Vince, I too had temps above 200 F on warm days. That was before I installe d=C2-louvered vents =C2-in the lower cowl. Now I have the reverse probl em; hard to get the oil temps up on cold days. Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 6:28:47 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine Hesitation Walt, =C2- I know that it is off the subject but how did you end up with oil temps in the 180's?=C2- I also have an RV-8A with an IO-360-A1A and a Hartzell con stant speed prop, I have one mag and one lightspeed ignition.=C2- On a wa rm day I will see 205 - 210 in cruise.=C2- The only time I see 180 is in the winter.=C2- My oil cooler is located behind #4 on the baffle.=C2- I t has a 1" C-Channel stand off=C2-and is well sealed to the baffle.=C2- I have cleaned up as much as I can, the baffle seal is good as evidenced b y=C2-CHT's in the low to mid 300's.=C2- I even cut about two inches off the bottom of the cowl to open up the exit a bit.=C2- How did you get 18 0's????? =C2- Vince=C2- =C2- Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:56:45 +0000 From: rveighta(at)comcast.net Subject: RV-List: Engine Hesitation I have a Lycoming IO-360 in my RV8A which=C2- exhibits an engine hesitanc y or "stumble" that is proving very difficult to diagnose. This problem shows up when taxiing back in after a flight, and in an RPM ra nge of 750-1300. In flight there is no evidence of a stumble, and no stumble at initial start up, taxiing out for take off or during run- up. In other words, the engine only exhibits this behavior when it is warm. =C2- I have talked to some very knowledgable folks and have tried several things : (1) Reset the idle mixture, (2) removed and cleaned the servo finger screen, (3) removed the nozzles and placed them in a cup of ac etone, which was then placed in a sonic cleaner for about an hour. After the nozzles were reinstalled, I test flew the plane and the stumble was gone. However, a subsequent test flight revealed that although the engine was running much smoother, an occasional stumble w as still there. =C2- Additional facts: =C2- Oil temps are normal (around 180 deg F) Compression test is normal (all cylinders mid 70's) I'm using a Catto 3 blade prop =C2- Any and all suggestions you may have will be greatly appreciated. =C2- Thanks, =C2- Walt Shipley 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Li/' target='_new'>Sign up no =========== == ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Waterproofing RV-4's
Jeff, I had the same problem with mine. What I did was cut off the front of the fiberglass fairing that laps up on the forward skin. Then I covered the forward skin, very tightly, with wax paper (or use a mold release as long as it doesn't hurt the paint.) Then I adjusted the canopy to close very tightly. Glassed a new fairing on top of the old one, overlapping the front skin in an arc fashion. Let it cure closed. Then trimmed to fit, and put a seal from Ace Hardware underneath. Flew IMC quite a bit without any more leaking. Paul Besing ________________________________ From: Jeff Bertsch <noms1reqd(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 9:39:41 PM Subject: RV-List: Waterproofing RV-4's My RV-4 can't fly through rain. It leaks terribly the forward edge of the tip over canopy. I've tried various seals, the latest being a V-shaped seal. Does anyone know how to really waterproof the RV-4? Jeff Bertsch Houston ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vincent Welch <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Engine Hesitation
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Are you using the cowl louvers also Rick? Vince From: rick.mcbride(at)me.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Hesitation Date: Mon=2C 14 Sep 2009 19:30:56 -0400 Vince=2C Just as another point of reference=2C I have an IO360-A3B6D in my -8 with d ual Lightspeed. It has a firewall mounted oil cooler (13 row if I recall) . The plenum into the cooler has a butterfly valve. Without shutting the valve I rarely see temperatures about 200 degrees unless in a climb on a ho t day. It's not uncommon that I have to close the valve partially to get t emps to 180 or above. With the valve open on a warm day my temps are usual ly in the 170s. Rick McBride On Sep 14=2C 2009=2C at 6:28 PM=2C Vincent Welch wrote: Walt=2C I know that it is off the subject but how did you end up with oil temps in the 180's? I also have an RV-8A with an IO-360-A1A and a Hartzell constant speed prop=2C I have one mag and one lightspeed ignition. On a warm day I will see 205 - 210 in cruise. The only time I see 180 is in the winter. My oil cooler is located behind #4 on the baffle. It has a 1" C-Channel st and off and is well sealed to the baffle. I have cleaned up as much as I c an=2C the baffle seal is good as evidenced by CHT's in the low to mid 300's . I even cut about two inches off the bottom of the cowl to open up the ex it a bit. How did you get 180's????? Vince Date: Mon=2C 14 Sep 2009 12:56:45 +0000 From: rveighta(at)comcast.net Subject: RV-List: Engine Hesitation I have a Lycoming IO-360 in my RV8A which exhibits an engine hesitancy or "stumble" that is proving very difficult to diagnose. This problem shows up when taxiing back in after a flight=2C and in an RPM range of 750-1300. In flight there is no evidence of a stumble=2C and no stumble at initial start up=2C taxiing out for take off or during ru n-up. In other words=2C the engine only exhibits this behavior when it is warm. I have talked to some very knowledgable folks and have tried several things : (1) Reset the idle mixture=2C (2) removed and cleaned the servo finger screen=2C (3) removed the nozzles and placed them in a cup of acetone=2C which was then placed in a sonic cleaner for about an hour. After the nozzles were reinstalled=2C I test flew the plane and th e stumble was gone. However=2C a subsequent test flight revealed that although the engine was running much smoother=2C an occasional stumble was still there. Additional facts: Oil temps are normal (around 180 deg F) Compression test is normal (all cylinders mid 70's) I'm using a Catto 3 blade prop Any and all suggestions you may have will be greatly appreciated. Thanks=2C Walt Shipley 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Li/' target='_new'>Sign up no w. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con tribution _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vincent Welch <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Engine Hesitation
Date: Sep 14, 2009
I was looking at the louvers also. I was holding that option as a last res ort but it looks like I may have to go that way by next summer. Thanks for the info. Vince Date: Mon=2C 14 Sep 2009 23:54:17 +0000 From: rveighta(at)comcast.net Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Hesitation Vince=2C I too had temps above 200 F on warm days. That was before I instal led louvered vents in the lower cowl. Now I have the reverse problem=3B hard to get the oil temps up on cold days. Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Monday=2C September 14=2C 2009 6:28:47 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Easter n Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine Hesitation Walt=2C I know that it is off the subject but how did you end up with oil temps in the 180's? I also have an RV-8A with an IO-360-A1A and a Hartzell constant speed prop=2C I have one mag and one lightspeed ignition. On a warm day I will see 205 - 210 in cruise. The only time I see 180 is in the winter. My oil cooler is located behind #4 on the baffle. It has a 1" C-Channel st and off and is well sealed to the baffle. I have cleaned up as much as I c an=2C the baffle seal is good as evidenced by CHT's in the low to mid 300's . I even cut about two inches off the bottom of the cowl to open up the ex it a bit. How did you get 180's????? Vince Date: Mon=2C 14 Sep 2009 12:56:45 +0000 From: rveighta(at)comcast.net Subject: RV-List: Engine Hesitation I have a Lycoming IO-360 in my RV8A which exhibits an engine hesitancy or "stumble" that is proving very difficult to diagnose. This problem shows up when taxiing back in after a flight=2C and in an RPM range of 750-1300. In flight there is no evidence of a stumble=2C and no stumble at initial start up=2C taxiing out for take off or during ru n-up. In other words=2C the engine only exhibits this behavior when it is warm. I have talked to some very knowledgable folks and have tried several things : (1) Reset the idle mixture=2C (2) removed and cleaned the servo finger screen=2C (3) removed the nozzles and placed them in a cup of acetone=2C which was then placed in a sonic cleaner for about an hour. After the nozzles were reinstalled=2C I test flew the plane and th e stumble was gone. However=2C a subsequent test flight revealed that although the engine was running much smoother=2C an occasional stumble was still there. Additional facts: Oil temps are normal (around 180 deg F) Compression test is normal (all cylinders mid 70's) I'm using a Catto 3 blade prop Any and all suggestions you may have will be greatly appreciated. Thanks=2C Walt Shipley 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Li/' target='_new'>Sign up no w. t=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Initial Baffle-To-Top-Cowling Fit...
Dear Listers, The RV-8's cowling done and fits like a glove. I started the baffling last night and its coming along nicely. The fit on the sides and back are very good considering the IO-390 installation (and the use of the IO-360 baffle kit). The front baffling is completely different, however, and I'm slogging through the custom fitting. But here's my question. I decided to put the top cowling on top of the baffling that I've got installed so far and I was shocked that the baffling appears to be a good 1 to 1.5" too tall!! Is this because of the IO-390 or is that just where Van's expects you to start in your "cutting-it-down-to-size" phase? That's a lot of snipping and fitting and snipping and fitting. I was expecting to have to trim some, but not over a inch... Also, it looks like the over-sized oil cooler is going to fit nicely on the rear baffle with only a little "modification". But I'm not sure if the back, upper corner is going to clear the cowling. Since the cowling is sitting over a inch high right now, I've got no way to really trial fit the oil cooler and check for cowling clearance until I trim the baffling down. Worst-case I could put a blister on the cowling for the rear, upper flange of the oil cooler, I suppose, but that's kind of hokey. There is room to move the oil cooler in towards the centerline about 1", but then the mount will no longer line up with the flange on the outboard edge and will require more modifications. Thoughts...? Attached are some pics. ( Digest viewers check http://forums.matronics.com ). Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle Baffling and Oil Cooler... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Engine Hesitation
Date: Sep 14, 2009
He means to check the intake riser seals where they exit the sump. The easiest way I know, is to spray each riser seal area with engine starter fluid while the engine is running at low idle. If the engine speeds up, you have a leak. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rveighta(at)comcast.net Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 4:05 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Hesitation Mike, I'm not sure what you mean by checking for an intake leak. How do you go about doing that? Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:21:26 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine Hesitation Walt, have you tried checking for an intake leak. It can cause exactly what you are talking about. Mike Robertson _____ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:56:45 +0000 From: rveighta(at)comcast.net Subject: RV-List: Engine Hesitation I have a Lycoming IO-360 in my RV8A which exhibits an engine hesitancy or "stumble" that is proving very difficult to diagnose. This problem shows up when taxiing back in after a flight, and in an RPM range of 750-1300. In flight there is no evidence of a stumble, and no stumble at initial start up, taxiing out for take off or during run-up. In other words, the engine only exhibits this behavior when it is warm. I have talked to some very knowledgable folks and have tried several things: (1) Reset the idle mixture, (2) removed and cleaned the servo finger screen, (3) removed the nozzles and placed them in a cup of acetone, which was then placed in a sonic cleaner for about an hour. After the nozzles were reinstalled, I test flew the plane and the stumble was gone. However, a subsequent test flight revealed that although the engine was running much smoother, an occasional stumble was still there. Additional facts: Oil temps are normal (around 180 deg F) Compression test is normal (all cylinders mid 70's) I'm using a Catto 3 blade prop Any and all suggestions you may have will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Walt Shipley 3D======================= 3D==================== 3D======================= 3D==================== 3D======================= 3D==================== 3D======================= 3D==================== _____ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Li/' target='_new'>Sign up now. t=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Garry" <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Hesitation
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Where can I get info on these "cowl louvers"? Garry Stout ----- Original Message ----- From: Vincent Welch To: RV List Matronics Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:58 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine Hesitation Are you using the cowl louvers also Rick? Vince ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: rick.mcbride(at)me.com To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Hesitation Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:30:56 -0400 Vince, Just as another point of reference, I have an IO360-A3B6D in my -8 with dual Lightspeed. It has a firewall mounted oil cooler (13 row if I recall). The plenum into the cooler has a butterfly valve. Without shutting the valve I rarely see temperatures about 200 degrees unless in a climb on a hot day. It's not uncommon that I have to close the valve partially to get temps to 180 or above. With the valve open on a warm day my temps are usually in the 170s. Rick McBride On Sep 14, 2009, at 6:28 PM, Vincent Welch wrote: Walt, I know that it is off the subject but how did you end up with oil temps in the 180's? I also have an RV-8A with an IO-360-A1A and a Hartzell constant speed prop, I have one mag and one lightspeed ignition. On a warm day I will see 205 - 210 in cruise. The only time I see 180 is in the winter. My oil cooler is located behind #4 on the baffle. It has a 1" C-Channel stand off and is well sealed to the baffle. I have cleaned up as much as I can, the baffle seal is good as evidenced by CHT's in the low to mid 300's. I even cut about two inches off the bottom of the cowl to open up the exit a bit. How did you get 180's????? Vince ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:56:45 +0000 From: rveighta(at)comcast.net To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Engine Hesitation I have a Lycoming IO-360 in my RV8A which exhibits an engine hesitancy or "stumble" that is proving very difficult to diagnose. This problem shows up when taxiing back in after a flight, and in an RPM range of 750-1300. In flight there is no evidence of a stumble, and no stumble at initial start up, taxiing out for take off or during run-up. In other words, the engine only exhibits this behavior when it is warm. I have talked to some very knowledgable folks and have tried several things: (1) Reset the idle mixture, (2) removed and cleaned the servo finger screen, (3) removed the nozzles and placed them in a cup of acetone, which was then placed in a sonic cleaner for about an hour. After the nozzles were reinstalled, I test flew the plane and the stumble was gone. However, a subsequent test flight revealed that although the engine was running much smoother, an occasional stumble was still there. Additional facts: Oil temps are normal (around 180 deg F) Compression test is normal (all cylinders mid 70's) I'm using a Catto 3 blade prop Any and all suggestions you may have will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Walt Shipley 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Li/' target='_new'>Sign up now. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security barget='_new'>Get it now. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: Jeff Bertsch <noms1reqd(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Waterproofing RV-4's
Thanks Paul.- I don't know if I follow what you did.- Do you have any p ictures online? - Jeff Bertsch --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Jeff Bertsch wrote: From: Jeff Bertsch <noms1reqd(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RV-List: Waterproofing RV-4's Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 11:39 PM My RV-4 can't fly through rain.- It leaks terribly the forward edge of th e tip over canopy.- I've tried various seals, the latest being a V-shaped seal.- Does anyone know how to really waterproof the RV-4? - Jeff Bertsch Houston =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 15, 2009
From: RICHARD MILLER <rickpegser(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Engine Hesitation
Walt you have already tried the shotgun approach to solve this problem. Without a logging engine monitor, i have to go back to the basics. As said before, it is air, fuel or fire. you have yet to tell us how old this engine is. you have played with the fuel side, this is not something you should do without the right tools. if you over lean these engines at max power you will be buying another one. On the fire side i need to know what you have installed. One the air side there could be any number of things that could be causing this. The problem with any experimental airplane, is that it is an experimental airplane. They are all one offs. There is no decent customer support, since almost everyone builds them a little different. rick a+p/ia 25+ yrs. --- On Mon, 9/14/09, Mike Robertson wrote: > From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> > Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine Hesitation > To: "rv list" > Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 2:50 PM > > > > #yiv892795043 .hmmessage P > { > margin:0px;padding:0px;} > #yiv892795043 { > font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > > > > Walt, > > > > Try tightening all the clamps and bolts on the intake > system from the oil sump to the cylinder head and do a > visual check on the rubber connectors for condition. > If everything appears ok then, very carefully, spray soapy > wateron the intake system while the engine is > running. You won't see bubbles because it is > sucking but the engine will stumble if it a big leak, or you > will see EGT and cylinder head temp changes. > > > > Mike > > > > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:05:03 +0000 > From: rveighta(at)comcast.net > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Hesitation > > > > #yiv892795043 .ExternalClass p > {} > > > > Mike, I'm not sure what you mean by checking for an > intake leak. How do you go about doing that? > > > > Walt > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Robertson" > > To: "rv list" > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:21:26 AM GMT -05:00 > US/Canada Eastern > Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine Hesitation > > > > #yiv892795043 .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P > {padding:0px;} > #yiv892795043 .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage > {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > > Walt, > > have you tried checking for an intake leak. It can > cause exactly what you are talking about. > > Mike Robertson > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:56:45 +0000 > From: rveighta(at)comcast.net > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Engine Hesitation > > > > > #yiv892795043 .ExternalClass p > {} > > > I > have a Lycoming IO-360 in my RV8A which exhibits an > engine hesitancy or "stumble" that is proving very > difficult to diagnose. > This problem shows up when taxiing back in after a flight, > and in an RPM range of 750-1300. In flight there is no > evidence of a stumble, > and no stumble at initial start up, taxiing out for take > off or during run-up. In other words, the engine only > exhibits this behavior when it > is warm. > > I have talked to some very knowledgable folks and have > tried several things: (1) Reset the idle mixture, (2) > removed and cleaned the > servo finger screen, (3) removed the nozzles and placed > them in a cup of acetone, which was then placed in a sonic > cleaner for about > an hour. After the nozzles were reinstalled, I test flew > the plane and the stumble was gone. However, a subsequent > test flight revealed > that although the engine was running much smoother, an > occasional stumble was still there. > > Additional facts: > > Oil temps are normal (around 180 deg F) > Compression test is normal (all cylinders mid 70's) > I'm using a Catto 3 blade prop > > Any and all suggestions you may have will be greatly > appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Walt Shipley > > > > 3D============================================ > 3D============================================ > 3D============================================ > 3D============================================ > > > > > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Li/' > target='_new'>Sign up now. > > t=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > p://forums.matronics.com > blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > ronics.com > ww.matronics.com/contribution > > > Your E-mail and More > On-the-Go. Get Windows Li/' > target='_new'>Sign up now. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 15, 2009
From: rveighta(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re:RV-List Cowl Louvers (was engine hesitation)
Vince, one of the other listers asked me where I got my louvers but I can't remember his name. I believe however that he has stopped making them.=C2- If any on the list knows where to get them now, please a dvise. Also, if you go with the louvers, you will need some way to block them off in cold weather. An electric mac servo might be a good approach. Right now I just use metal covers when the weather turns cold. Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:57:37 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine Hesitation I was looking at the louvers also.=C2- I was holding that option as a las t resort but it looks like I may have to go that way by next summer.=C2- Thanks for the info. =C2- Vince =C2- Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:54:17 +0000 From: rveighta(at)comcast.net Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Hesitation Vince, I too had temps above 200 F on warm days. That was before I installe d=C2-louvered vents=C2-in the lower cowl. Now I have the reverse proble m; hard to get the oil temps up on cold days. =C2- Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 6:28:47 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine Hesitation Walt, =C2- I know that it is off the subject but how did you end up with oil temps in the 180's?=C2- I also have an RV-8A with an IO-360-A1A and a Hartzell con stant speed prop, I have one mag and one lightspeed ignition.=C2- On a wa rm day I will see 205 - 210 in cruise.=C2- The only time I see 180 is in the winter.=C2- My oil cooler is located behind #4 on the baffle.=C2- I t has a 1" C-Channel stand off=C2-and is well sealed to the baffle.=C2- I have cleaned up as much as I can, the baffle seal is good as evidenced b y=C2-CHT's in the low to mid 300's.=C2- I even cut about two inches off the bottom of the cowl to open up the exit a bit.=C2- How did you get 18 0's????? =C2- Vince=C2- =C2- Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:56:45 +0000 From: rveighta(at)comcast.net Subject: RV-List: Engine Hesitation I have a Lycoming IO-360 in my RV8A which=C2- exhibits an engine hesitanc y or "stumble" that is proving very difficult to diagnose. This problem shows up when taxiing back in after a flight, and in an RPM ra nge of 750-1300. In flight there is no evidence of a stumble, and no stumble at initial start up, taxiing out for take off or during run- up. In other words, the engine only exhibits this behavior when it is warm. =C2- I have talked to some very knowledgable folks and have tried several things : (1) Reset the idle mixture, (2) removed and cleaned the servo finger screen, (3) removed the nozzles and placed them in a cup of ac etone, which was then placed in a sonic cleaner for about an hour. After the nozzles were reinstalled, I test flew the plane and the stumble was gone. However, a subsequent test flight revealed that although the engine was running much smoother, an occasional stumble w as still there. =C2- Additional facts: =C2- Oil temps are normal (around 180 deg F) Compression test is normal (all cylinders mid 70's) I'm using a Catto 3 blade prop =C2- Any and all suggestions you may have will be greatly appreciated. =C2- Thanks, =C2- Walt Shipley 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Li/' target='_new'>Sign up no w. t=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List p://forums.matroni cs.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution p://www.matronics.com/Na vigator?RV-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution ========= == ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard McBride <rick.mcbride(at)me.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Hesitation
Date: Sep 15, 2009
No I'm not. I suspect my temps are due to a larger cooler, which is probably not a viable option for you. The louvers sound like a good solution. Rick On Sep 14, 2009, at 9:58 PM, Vincent Welch wrote: > Are you using the cowl louvers also Rick? > > Vince > > From: rick.mcbride(at)me.com > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Hesitation > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:30:56 -0400 > > Vince, > > Just as another point of reference, I have an IO360-A3B6D in my -8 > with dual Lightspeed. It has a firewall mounted oil cooler (13 row > if I recall). The plenum into the cooler has a butterfly valve. > Without shutting the valve I rarely see temperatures about 200 > degrees unless in a climb on a hot day. It's not uncommon that I > have to close the valve partially to get temps to 180 or above. > With the valve open on a warm day my temps are usually in the 170s. > > Rick McBride > > On Sep 14, 2009, at 6:28 PM, Vincent Welch wrote: > > Walt, > > I know that it is off the subject but how did you end up with oil > temps in the 180's? I also have an RV-8A with an IO-360-A1A and a > Hartzell constant speed prop, I have one mag and one lightspeed > ignition. On a warm day I will see 205 - 210 in cruise. The only > time I see 180 is in the winter. My oil cooler is located behind #4 > on the baffle. It has a 1" C-Channel stand off and is well sealed > to the baffle. I have cleaned up as much as I can, the baffle seal > is good as evidenced by CHT's in the low to mid 300's. I even cut > about two inches off the bottom of the cowl to open up the exit a > bit. How did you get 180's????? > > Vince > > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:56:45 +0000 > From: rveighta(at)comcast.net > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Engine Hesitation > > I have a Lycoming IO-360 in my RV8A which exhibits an engine > hesitancy or "stumble" that is proving very difficult to diagnose. > This problem shows up when taxiing back in after a flight, and in an > RPM range of 750-1300. In flight there is no evidence of a stumble, > and no stumble at initial start up, taxiing out for take off or > during run-up. In other words, the engine only exhibits this > behavior when it > is warm. > > I have talked to some very knowledgable folks and have tried several > things: (1) Reset the idle mixture, (2) removed and cleaned the > servo finger screen, (3) removed the nozzles and placed them in a > cup of acetone, which was then placed in a sonic cleaner for about > an hour. After the nozzles were reinstalled, I test flew the plane > and the stumble was gone. However, a subsequent test flight revealed > that although the engine was running much smoother, an occasional > stumble was still there. > > Additional facts: > > Oil temps are normal (around 180 deg F) > Compression test is normal (all cylinders mid 70's) > I'm using a Catto 3 blade prop > > Any and all suggestions you may have will be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Walt Shipley > > > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > ====================== > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > ====================== > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > ====================== > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > ====================== > > > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Li/' target='_new'>Sign > up now. > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security barget='_new'>Get it now. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-List Cowl Louvers (was engine hesitation)
From: "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com>
Date: Sep 15, 2009
You can get the louvers here....... http://www.averytools.com/ -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263110#263110 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 15, 2009
From: rveighta(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Engine Hesitation
Rick, thanks for sticking with me on this problem. To answer your questions , the engine is a 1978 IO-360 B4A. It is equipped with two Bendix Magnitos=C2- (R) S4LN-30, P/N 10-51360-29=C2-=C2- (L) S4LN-21 =C2- P/N 10-51360-37.=C2- I am using=C2-Unison =C2-Aviation plugs, UREM37BY. Sparkplug wires are standard Lycoming. Thanks again..... Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: "RICHARD MILLER" <rickpegser(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:58:48 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine Hesitation Walt you have already tried the shotgun approach to solve this problem. Without a logging engine monitor, i have to go back to the basics. As said before, it is air, fuel or fire. you have yet to tell us how old this engine is. you have played with the fuel side, this is not something you should do wit hout the right tools. if you over lean these engines at max power you will be buying another one. On the fire side i need to know what you have installed. One the air side there could be any number of things that could be causing this. The problem with any experimental airplane, is that it is an experimental a irplane. They are all one offs. There is no decent customer support, since almost everyone builds them a little different. rick a+p/ia 25+ yrs. --- On Mon, 9/14/09, Mike Robertson wrote: > From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> > Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine Hesitation > To: "rv list" > Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 2:50 PM > > > > #yiv892795043 .hmmessage P > { > margin:0px;padding:0px;} > #yiv892795043 { > font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > > > =C2- > Walt, > > =C2- > > Try tightening all the clamps and bolts on the intake > system from the oil sump to the cylinder head and do a > visual check on the rubber connectors for condition.=C2- > If everything appears ok then, very carefully, spray soapy > water=C2-on the intake system while the engine is > running.=C2- You won't see bubbles because it is > sucking but the engine will stumble if it a big leak, or you > will see EGT and cylinder head temp changes. > > =C2- > > Mike > =C2- > > > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:05:03 +0000 > From: rveighta(at)comcast.net > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Hesitation > > > > #yiv892795043 .ExternalClass p > {} > > > > Mike, I'm not sure what you mean by checking for an > intake leak. How do you go about doing that? > > =C2- > > Walt > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Robertson" > > To: "rv list" > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:21:26 AM GMT -05:00 > US/Canada Eastern > Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine Hesitation > > > > #yiv892795043 .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P > {padding:0px;} > #yiv892795043 .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage > {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > > Walt, > =C2- > have you tried checking for an intake leak.=C2- It can > cause exactly what you are talking about. > =C2- > Mike Robertson > =C2- > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:56:45 +0000 > From: rveighta(at)comcast.net > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Engine Hesitation > > > > > #yiv892795043 .ExternalClass p > {} > > > I > have a Lycoming IO-360 in my RV8A which=C2- exhibits an > engine hesitancy or "stumble" that is proving very > difficult to diagnose. > This problem shows up when taxiing back in after a flight, > and in an RPM range of 750-1300. In flight there is no > evidence of a stumble, > and no stumble at initial start up, taxiing out for take > off or during run-up. In other words, the engine only > exhibits this behavior when it > is warm. > =C2- > I have talked to some very knowledgable folks and have > tried several things: (1) Reset the idle mixture, (2) > removed and cleaned the > servo finger screen, (3) removed the nozzles and placed > them in a cup of acetone, which was then placed in a sonic > cleaner for about > an hour. After the nozzles were reinstalled, I test flew > the plane and the stumble was gone. However, a subsequent > test flight revealed > that although the engine was running much smoother, an > occasional stumble was still there. > =C2- > Additional facts: > =C2- > Oil temps are normal (around 180 deg F)


September 02, 2009 - September 15, 2009

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