RV-Archive.digest.vol-um
June 01, 2010 - July 01, 2010
Chris
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 4:58 AM, wrote:
> If you are drilling holes for 3/32" rivets, shouldn't you be using a #40
> drill and not a 3/32"?
>
>
> ---- Chris Colohan wrote:
> > I've reached the horizontal stabilizer in building my RV-10. While
> drilling
> > the 3/32" holes in the spar doublers for the forward spar, I mucked one
> of
> > the holes up.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fixing a bad hole... |
You could countersink the mis-drilled hole and put a flush rivet in it,
under the skin. Then using the pre-drilled skin as a template, drill the
correct hole in the spar, and continue on. I'd think that one repair on the
spar wouldn't have much if any effect on the overall strength. If you're
concerned about the strength of the spar cap you could put a doubler under
the existing row of rivets that picked up 6-8 holes.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 8:20 AM, Chris Colohan wrote:
> This is a slightly unusual assembly in the RV-10.
>
> The spar comes pre-drilled with undersized holes in the flange. The
> doubler comes with no holes.
>
> You clamp the doubler on the spar, and drill through the existing spar
> flange holes and through the doubler with a 3/32" drill. When you later
> assemble the whole thing with the skin in place, you match drill everything
> (including the skin) with a #40 drill.
>
> So for this hole I've messed up the spar flange and doubler, and now have a
> misplaced hole to go under my pre-drilled skin (which I have not touched
> yet). I was hoping to find a solution which does not involve: (a) drilling
> another hole right next to the first mistake, since that would weaken the
> spar flange, or (b) making my skin look ugly. I fear this solution doesn't
> exist...
>
> Chris
>
> On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 4:58 AM, wrote:
>
>> If you are drilling holes for 3/32" rivets, shouldn't you be using a #40
>> drill and not a 3/32"?
>>
>>
>> ---- Chris Colohan wrote:
>> > I've reached the horizontal stabilizer in building my RV-10. While
>> drilling
>> > the 3/32" holes in the spar doublers for the forward spar, I mucked one
>> of
>> > the holes up.
>>
>>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-9A on its back in Hanover County, VA |
| From: | Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
http://www.nbc12.com/global/story.asp?s=12575399
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HCRV6(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Fixing a bad hole... |
Chris,
However you fix this oops, save yourself a lot of headaches in the future by ordering
a dozen or so #40 and #30 (for AN4 rivets) drill bits from Avery or Cleveland
Tool. Do not use fractional drill bits for aircraft rivets. A sharp #40
drill should take no more than about 5 seconds to go thru that flange.
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 692 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Colohan" <rv10(at)colohan.com>
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 9:51:12 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: RV-List: Fixing a bad hole...
I've reached the horizontal stabilizer in building my RV-10. While drilling the
3/32" holes in the spar doublers for the forward spar, I mucked one of the holes
up.
In particular, the drill appears to have slid about 3/32" sideways while drilling,
mis-placing the hole by 3/32". Perhaps better explained through pictures:
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YZEMcGR7IQ7RKKSRLDgTIKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/eN0TsDBeAFqGoRwnEt8-s6Iqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/e83Ltq54S8AOdpT-fXhSuKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JklKOOxA-qYDu9BtPMZJeKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
So I know how to fix a hole when you make it slightly too large -- you drill it
out larger and put an "oops" rivet in it. But what can you do to fix a hole which
is misplaced? Is there a good fix for this? Drilling a hole large enough
to cover this error would take a rivet larger than 1/8"...
(At worst, I can just replace the spar -- I have a spare, due to an earlier error
that Van's made, and so I'd just need to order some new spar doublers. But
I'd like to first learn if I can fix this one.)
Also, while I have your ear -- I made this error while using a brand new Rigid Cobalt drill bit (like this one: http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/332-Cobalt-Drill-Bit/EN/index.htm ). The bit appears to be able to cut sideways just as well (or even better) than it can drill straight ahead in aluminum. It also takes about 20-30 seconds per hole drilling at 4000rpm (assuming my air drill is making its rated speed) while applying moderate pressure. Is this a known problem with this type of bit, or is my drilling technique off? I've ordered some "aviation" 3/32" bits from Avery, but wanted to know if I should expect it to be easier to drill straight with those bits.
Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fixing a bad hole... |
Also, you need a drill with a good teasing trigger that you can start
very slow, and only after the drill bit has started, run the speed up
high. Chicago Pneumatics makes a good one that Avery sells for around
$125, and there are the Sioux drills for about double that.
On 6/1/2010 7:43 AM, John Bright wrote:
> It's only one hole of tens... not a structural issue... you could do
> your best with an oops rivet and move on. Is it a cosmetic issue with
> the skin? You don't show the skin... is the skin bungled-up also? You
> could fill around it on the exterior skin cosmetically with pro-seal
> when you mix it for the tanks.
>
> I like the 135 degree split points. IMO cobalt or TiN or whatever does
> not matter to us with this aluminum. Split points have less tendency
> to walk than 118 degree non split points but they will still walk. All
> drills make triangular holes in thin sheet metal.
>
> I use an electric drill that spins maybe 2,400 rpm and I go thru skin
> and doubler in 1 or 2 seconds. I don't know what's going on with 20-30
> seconds but something is wrong.
> Thanks,
>
> John Bright
> o:757-864-2305
> c:757-812-1909
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Chris Colohan
> *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Tue, June 1, 2010 12:51:12 AM
> *Subject:* RV-List: Fixing a bad hole...
>
> I've reached the horizontal stabilizer in building my RV-10. While
> drilling the 3/32" holes in the spar doublers for the forward spar, I
> mucked one of the holes up.
>
> In particular, the drill appears to have slid about 3/32" sideways
> while drilling, mis-placing the hole by 3/32". Perhaps better
> explained through pictures:
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YZEMcGR7IQ7RKKSRLDgTIKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/eN0TsDBeAFqGoRwnEt8-s6Iqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/e83Ltq54S8AOdpT-fXhSuKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JklKOOxA-qYDu9BtPMZJeKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
>
> So I know how to fix a hole when you make it slightly too large -- you
> drill it out larger and put an "oops" rivet in it. But what can you
> do to fix a hole which is misplaced? Is there a good fix for this?
> Drilling a hole large enough to cover this error would take a rivet
> larger than 1/8"...
>
> (At worst, I can just replace the spar -- I have a spare, due to an
> earlier error that Van's made, and so I'd just need to order some new
> spar doublers. But I'd like to first learn if I can fix this one.)
>
> Also, while I have your ear -- I made this error while using a brand
> new Rigid Cobalt drill bit (like this one:
> http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/332-Cobalt-Drill-Bit/EN/index.htm). The
> bit appears to be able to cut sideways just as well (or even better)
> than it can drill straight ahead in aluminum. It also takes about
> 20-30 seconds per hole drilling at 4000rpm (assuming my air drill is
> making its rated speed) while applying moderate pressure. Is this a
> known problem with this type of bit, or is my drilling technique off?
> I've ordered some "aviation" 3/32" bits from Avery, but wanted to
> know if I should expect it to be easier to drill straight with those bits.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Chris
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fixing a bad hole... |
Chris,
-
I see at least two ways of addressing that particular problem:
-
[IMG]http://i48.tinypic.com/11lsxz9.jpg[/IMG]
-
First fix option: You could "pull" the hole over and clean-it up although
I suspect it may need to go up to .1875 to do that perfectly.- Then afte
r dimpling, the hole would require an AD6 rivet or more likely....a structu
ral screw. The problem is you likely do not possess the proper tooling to c
lean up the hole and even if you did, any 3/16" fastener would stand out li
ke a sore thumb among all those AD3 rivets. Still, here is a link to "build
ers tip" I once wrote that-describes-the technique of "pulling" or movi
ng a hole over:
-
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=11769&highlight=
move+hole+bushing
-
Second fix option: This fix is what I would be inclined to do, because in t
he end you can-install a regular AD3 rivet in the bad-hole as if it nev
er existed.--Using a pattern file or similar, clean up the bad hole in
the spar so no sharp edges exist.- Then fabricate an .032 doubler of a gi
ven length.--You could install that doubler-by simply picking up a nu
mber-of existing holes-in the spar OR you could fabricate it as shown i
n the second picture by riveting it in place using a total of- four NAS10
97 rivets through the spar and doubler. Then later, when the skin is clecoe
d into place, use the subject hole location on the match hole skin to-dri
ll through the doubler.- The over-sized spar hole would be-effectively
ignored.- Care must be taken to insure whatever dimpling you do-to the
spar is effective.- Done properly, nobody but you will ever know.
-
Rick Galati
-
RV-6A
RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fixing a bad hole... |
| From: | Chris Colohan <rv10(at)colohan.com> |
I have a bunch of these numbered bits from Avery -- but the in this one
place the instructions call for drilling to 3/32" when you assemble the spar
and doublers, and then match drilling up to #40 when you have the skins in
place.
I've now ordered some fractional aviation bits from Avery, and so when I
redo this I'll have the right tools.
Chris
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 1:15 PM, wrote:
> Chris,
>
> However you fix this oops, save yourself a lot of headaches in the future
> by ordering a dozen or so #40 and #30 (for AN4 rivets) drill bits from Avery
> or Cleveland Tool. Do not use fractional drill bits for aircraft rivets. A
> sharp #40 drill should take no more than about 5 seconds to go thru that
> flange.
>
> Harry Crosby
> RV-6 N16CX, 692 hours
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Colohan" <rv10(at)colohan.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 9:51:12 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: RV-List: Fixing a bad hole...
>
> I've reached the horizontal stabilizer in building my RV-10. While
> drilling the 3/32" holes in the spar doublers for the forward spar, I mucked
> one of the holes up.
>
> In particular, the drill appears to have slid about 3/32" sideways while
> drilling, mis-placing the hole by 3/32". Perhaps better explained through
> pictures:
>
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YZEMcGR7IQ7RKKSRLDgTIKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/eN0TsDBeAFqGoRwnEt8-s6Iqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/e83Ltq54S8AOdpT-fXhSuKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JklKOOxA-qYDu9BtPMZJeKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
>
> So I know how to fix a hole when you make it slightly too large -- you
> drill it out larger and put an "oops" rivet in it. But what can you do to
> fix a hole which is misplaced? Is there a good fix for this? Drilling a
> hole large enough to cover this error would take a rivet larger than 1/8"...
>
> (At worst, I can just replace the spar -- I have a spare, due to an earlier
> error that Van's made, and so I'd just need to order some new spar doublers.
> But I'd like to first learn if I can fix this one.)
>
> Also, while I have your ear -- I made this error while using a brand new
> Rigid Cobalt drill bit (like this one:
> http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/332-Cobalt-Drill-Bit/EN/index.htm). The bit
> appears to be able to cut sideways just as well (or even better) than it can
> drill straight ahead in aluminum. It also takes about 20-30 seconds per
> hole drilling at 4000rpm (assuming my air drill is making its rated speed)
> while applying moderate pressure. Is this a known problem with this type of
> bit, or is my drilling technique off? I've ordered some "aviation" 3/32"
> bits from Avery, but wanted to know if I should expect it to be easier to
> drill straight with those bits.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Chris
>
> *
>
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fixing a bad hole... |
| From: | Chris Colohan <rv10(at)colohan.com> |
I have the Avery drill -- the issue here is not that I started the hole in
the wrong place, but that once the hole started through one piece of
aluminum the bit managed to expand the hole sideways into a giant oval
instead of drilling through the next piece. It acted more like a router
than a drill. :-(
After the messages on this list and off -- I've ordered new HS-1013 doublers
from Van's, and will use this with my spare spar to redo the whole thing the
right way.
Chris
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Also, you need a drill with a good teasing trigger that you can start very
> slow, and only after the drill bit has started, run the speed up high.
> Chicago Pneumatics makes a good one that Avery sells for around $125, and
> there are the Sioux drills for about double that.
>
>
> On 6/1/2010 7:43 AM, John Bright wrote:
>
>> It's only one hole of tens... not a structural issue... you could do your
>> best with an oops rivet and move on. Is it a cosmetic issue with the skin?
>> You don't show the skin... is the skin bungled-up also? You could fill
>> around it on the exterior skin cosmetically with pro-seal when you mix it
>> for the tanks.
>>
>> I like the 135 degree split points. IMO cobalt or TiN or whatever does not
>> matter to us with this aluminum. Split points have less tendency to walk
>> than 118 degree non split points but they will still walk. All drills make
>> triangular holes in thin sheet metal.
>>
>> I use an electric drill that spins maybe 2,400 rpm and I go thru skin and
>> doubler in 1 or 2 seconds. I don't know what's going on with 20-30 seconds
>> but something is wrong.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John Bright
>> o:757-864-2305
>> c:757-812-1909
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* Chris Colohan
>> *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>
>> *Sent:* Tue, June 1, 2010 12:51:12 AM
>> *Subject:* RV-List: Fixing a bad hole...
>>
>> I've reached the horizontal stabilizer in building my RV-10. While
>> drilling the 3/32" holes in the spar doublers for the forward spar, I mucked
>> one of the holes up.
>>
>> In particular, the drill appears to have slid about 3/32" sideways while
>> drilling, mis-placing the hole by 3/32". Perhaps better explained through
>> pictures:
>>
>>
>> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YZEMcGR7IQ7RKKSRLDgTIKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
>>
>> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/eN0TsDBeAFqGoRwnEt8-s6Iqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
>>
>> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/e83Ltq54S8AOdpT-fXhSuKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
>>
>> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JklKOOxA-qYDu9BtPMZJeKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
>>
>> So I know how to fix a hole when you make it slightly too large -- you
>> drill it out larger and put an "oops" rivet in it. But what can you do to
>> fix a hole which is misplaced? Is there a good fix for this? Drilling a
>> hole large enough to cover this error would take a rivet larger than 1/8"...
>>
>> (At worst, I can just replace the spar -- I have a spare, due to an
>> earlier error that Van's made, and so I'd just need to order some new spar
>> doublers. But I'd like to first learn if I can fix this one.)
>>
>> Also, while I have your ear -- I made this error while using a brand new
>> Rigid Cobalt drill bit (like this one:
>> http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/332-Cobalt-Drill-Bit/EN/index.htm). The bit
>> appears to be able to cut sideways just as well (or even better) than it can
>> drill straight ahead in aluminum. It also takes about 20-30 seconds per
>> hole drilling at 4000rpm (assuming my air drill is making its rated speed)
>> while applying moderate pressure. Is this a known problem with this type of
>> bit, or is my drilling technique off? I've ordered some "aviation" 3/32"
>> bits from Avery, but wanted to know if I should expect it to be easier to
>> drill straight with those bits.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Fixing a bad hole... |
The way I approach these kind of problems:
1. If you can drill it out to 1/8", then do so and use a 1/8" rivet.
No one will ever see the one or two 1/8" rivets in the sea of 3/32" rivets.
2. If after drilling out the screw up the hole it too large, then just
get a replacement part from Van's. The parts are cheap - especially when
you think about flying this plane for 20-30 years and every time you look at
the tail you wonder if you should have replace the part or not.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (550 hrs)
RV-10 (systems install)
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Colohan
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fixing a bad hole...
I have a bunch of these numbered bits from Avery -- but the in this one
place the instructions call for drilling to 3/32" when you assemble the spar
and doublers, and then match drilling up to #40 when you have the skins in
place.
I've now ordered some fractional aviation bits from Avery, and so when I
redo this I'll have the right tools.
Chris
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 1:15 PM, wrote:
Chris,
However you fix this oops, save yourself a lot of headaches in the future by
ordering a dozen or so #40 and #30 (for AN4 rivets) drill bits from Avery or
Cleveland Tool. Do not use fractional drill bits for aircraft rivets. A
sharp #40 drill should take no more than about 5 seconds to go thru that
flange.
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 692 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Colohan" <rv10(at)colohan.com>
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 9:51:12 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: RV-List: Fixing a bad hole...
I've reached the horizontal stabilizer in building my RV-10. While drilling
the 3/32" holes in the spar doublers for the forward spar, I mucked one of
the holes up.
In particular, the drill appears to have slid about 3/32" sideways while
drilling, mis-placing the hole by 3/32". Perhaps better explained through
pictures:
<http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YZEMcGR7IQ7RKKSRLDgTIKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HH
lTjwc?feat=directlink>
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YZEMcGR7IQ7RKKSRLDgTIKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHl
Tjwc?feat=directlink
<http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/eN0TsDBeAFqGoRwnEt8-s6Iqw9YRHPUJIjz5HH
lTjwc?feat=directlink>
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/eN0TsDBeAFqGoRwnEt8-s6Iqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHl
Tjwc?feat=directlink
<http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/e83Ltq54S8AOdpT-fXhSuKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HH
lTjwc?feat=directlink>
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/e83Ltq54S8AOdpT-fXhSuKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHl
Tjwc?feat=directlink
<http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JklKOOxA-qYDu9BtPMZJeKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HH
lTjwc?feat=directlink>
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JklKOOxA-qYDu9BtPMZJeKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHl
Tjwc?feat=directlink
So I know how to fix a hole when you make it slightly too large -- you drill
it out larger and put an "oops" rivet in it. But what can you do to fix a
hole which is misplaced? Is there a good fix for this? Drilling a hole
large enough to cover this error would take a rivet larger than 1/8"...
(At worst, I can just replace the spar -- I have a spare, due to an earlier
error that Van's made, and so I'd just need to order some new spar doublers.
But I'd like to first learn if I can fix this one.)
Also, while I have your ear -- I made this error while using a brand new
Rigid Cobalt drill bit (like this one:
<http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/332-Cobalt-Drill-Bit/EN/index.htm>
http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/332-Cobalt-Drill-Bit/EN/index.htm). The bit
appears to be able to cut sideways just as well (or even better) than it can
drill straight ahead in aluminum. It also takes about 20-30 seconds per
hole drilling at 4000rpm (assuming my air drill is making its rated speed)
while applying moderate pressure. Is this a known problem with this type of
bit, or is my drilling technique off? I've ordered some "aviation" 3/32"
bits from Avery, but wanted to know if I should expect it to be easier to
drill straight with those bits.
Thanks!
Chris
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david cook <davercook1501(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trouble with Altimeter |
Went out to the airport today to blow out the static line and adjust the altimeter.
It was back to normal.
Took a flight and it worked OK. Had some flutter to it though. Don't know about
it's longevity.
David R. Cook
N815DC RV-6
Flying
________________________________
From: david cook <davercook1501(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Mon, May 31, 2010 10:34:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Trouble with Altimeter
Thanks for the replies. I will let you know the end result.
David R. Cook
N815DC RV-6
Flying
________________________________
From: david cook <davercook1501(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Sat, May 29, 2010 8:37:40 PM
Subject: RV-List: Trouble with Altimeter
Hi All
My altimeter just went crazy. Jumped in the ole 6 and spotted the altitude had
gone up 300 feet. Reset to field elevation and the pressure reading was 28.7.
I looked around an there was no hurricane in sight.
Any one have an explanation. The unit is only 3 years old from Vans. Do I just
reset it or is there a problem?
Dave
David R. Cook
N815DC RV-6
Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fixing a bad hole... |
I agree with this approach. Done properly, there should be no strength
compromise. You can also slightly countersink the underside of the bad
hole, to give the shop head a better grip.
In fact, I know there are a number of RV 10 wings that have this sort of
repair where the plans call for one single lug nut plate in the middle
of a bunch of two lug nut plates. Before long you will learn how to
efficiently repair your mistakes, the plan mistakes, the QB facility
mistakes, etc. In fact, fixing mistakes is one of the better skills you
acquire as you move along.
There are some who say you should just pick a finger to drill through,
with a small bit, so it isn't a surprise when it happens. Since I had
already done that long ago working on the motorhome type of RV, I
figured I didn't need to repeat the experience. ;-p
On 6/1/2010 10:35 AM, Dave Saylor wrote:
> You could countersink the mis-drilled hole and put a flush rivet in
> it, under the skin. Then using the pre-drilled skin as a template,
> drill the correct hole in the spar, and continue on. I'd think that
> one repair on the spar wouldn't have much if any effect on the overall
> strength. If you're concerned about the strength of the spar cap you
> could put a doubler under the existing row of rivets that picked up
> 6-8 holes.
>
> Dave Saylor
> AirCrafters LLC
> 140 Aviation Way
> Watsonville, CA 95076
> 831-722-9141 Shop
> 831-750-0284 Cell
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 8:20 AM, Chris Colohan > wrote:
>
> This is a slightly unusual assembly in the RV-10.
>
> The spar comes pre-drilled with undersized holes in the flange.
> The doubler comes with no holes.
>
> You clamp the doubler on the spar, and drill through the existing
> spar flange holes and through the doubler with a 3/32" drill.
> When you later assemble the whole thing with the skin in place,
> you match drill everything (including the skin) with a #40 drill.
>
> So for this hole I've messed up the spar flange and doubler, and
> now have a misplaced hole to go under my pre-drilled skin (which I
> have not touched yet). I was hoping to find a solution which does
> not involve: (a) drilling another hole right next to the first
> mistake, since that would weaken the spar flange, or (b) making my
> skin look ugly. I fear this solution doesn't exist...
>
> Chris
>
> On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 4:58 AM, > wrote:
>
> If you are drilling holes for 3/32" rivets, shouldn't you be
> using a #40 drill and not a 3/32"?
>
>
> ---- Chris Colohan > wrote:
> > I've reached the horizontal stabilizer in building my RV-10.
> While drilling
> > the 3/32" holes in the spar doublers for the forward spar, I
> mucked one of
> > the holes up.
>
>
> *
>
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fixing a bad hole... |
Personally, I have found that #41 drills make for a snugger fit dimpled
hole. I use either the drill bit for new holes, or #41 chucking reamer
to enlarge the pre-punched holes. The reamer both makes it unlikely you
will get a hole where it isn't supposed to be, and leaves a smoother
edge that needs less de-burring.
Most of my skins were probably pre-punched to #42, and won't accept
dimple die, but with #41 the dimple die fits perfectly.
On 6/1/2010 1:15 PM, HCRV6(at)comcast.net wrote:
> Chris,
>
> However you fix this oops, save yourself a lot of headaches in the
> future by ordering a dozen or so #40 and #30 (for AN4 rivets) drill
> bits from Avery or Cleveland Tool. Do not use fractional drill bits
> for aircraft rivets. A sharp #40 drill should take no more than about
> 5 seconds to go thru that flange.
>
> Harry Crosby
> RV-6 N16CX, 692 hours
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Colohan" <rv10(at)colohan.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 9:51:12 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: RV-List: Fixing a bad hole...
>
> I've reached the horizontal stabilizer in building my RV-10. While
> drilling the 3/32" holes in the spar doublers for the forward spar, I
> mucked one of the holes up.
>
> In particular, the drill appears to have slid about 3/32" sideways
> while drilling, mis-placing the hole by 3/32". Perhaps better
> explained through pictures:
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YZEMcGR7IQ7RKKSRLDgTIKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/eN0TsDBeAFqGoRwnEt8-s6Iqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/e83Ltq54S8AOdpT-fXhSuKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JklKOOxA-qYDu9BtPMZJeKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
>
> So I know how to fix a hole when you make it slightly too large -- you
> drill it out larger and put an "oops" rivet in it. But what can you
> do to fix a hole which is misplaced? Is there a good fix for this?
> Drilling a hole large enough to cover this error would take a rivet
> larger than 1/8"...
>
> (At worst, I can just replace the spar -- I have a spare, due to an
> earlier error that Van's made, and so I'd just need to order some new
> spar doublers. But I'd like to first learn if I can fix this one.)
>
> Also, while I have your ear -- I made this error while using a brand
> new Rigid Cobalt drill bit (like this one:
> http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/332-Cobalt-Drill-Bit/EN/index.htm). The
> bit appears to be able to cut sideways just as well (or even better)
> than it can drill straight ahead in aluminum. It also takes about
> 20-30 seconds per hole drilling at 4000rpm (assuming my air drill is
> making its rated speed) while applying moderate pressure. Is this a
> known problem with this type of bit, or is my drilling technique off?
> I've ordered some "aviation" 3/32" bits from Avery, but wanted to
> know if I should expect it to be easier to drill straight with those bits.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Chris
> *
>
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fixing a bad hole... |
Sounds like your drill bit was either bent, or not installed straight in
the drill. You shouldn't get that kind of wobble from a drill bit.
You can keep a few pieces of scrap to test a drill bit on before doing
critical parts, and to fine tune your rivet gun pressures before driving
any that will look bad if not driven right.
Don't feel bad. I know one or two people that misread the instructions
and misdrilled those doublers, needing to obtain new ones. When you get
into wings and fuselage you will forget all those minor speed bumps on
the tail.
On 6/1/2010 2:27 PM, Chris Colohan wrote:
> I have the Avery drill -- the issue here is not that I started the
> hole in the wrong place, but that once the hole started through one
> piece of aluminum the bit managed to expand the hole sideways into a
> giant oval instead of drilling through the next piece. It acted more
> like a router than a drill. :-(
>
> After the messages on this list and off -- I've ordered new HS-1013
> doublers from Van's, and will use this with my spare spar to redo the
> whole thing the right way.
>
> Chris
>
> On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Kelly McMullen > wrote:
>
> >
>
> Also, you need a drill with a good teasing trigger that you can
> start very slow, and only after the drill bit has started, run the
> speed up high. Chicago Pneumatics makes a good one that Avery
> sells for around $125, and there are the Sioux drills for about
> double that.
>
>
> On 6/1/2010 7:43 AM, John Bright wrote:
>
> It's only one hole of tens... not a structural issue... you
> could do your best with an oops rivet and move on. Is it a
> cosmetic issue with the skin? You don't show the skin... is
> the skin bungled-up also? You could fill around it on the
> exterior skin cosmetically with pro-seal when you mix it for
> the tanks.
>
> I like the 135 degree split points. IMO cobalt or TiN or
> whatever does not matter to us with this aluminum. Split
> points have less tendency to walk than 118 degree non split
> points but they will still walk. All drills make triangular
> holes in thin sheet metal.
>
> I use an electric drill that spins maybe 2,400 rpm and I go
> thru skin and doubler in 1 or 2 seconds. I don't know what's
> going on with 20-30 seconds but something is wrong.
> Thanks,
>
> John Bright
> o:757-864-2305
> c:757-812-1909
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Chris Colohan >
> *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Sent:* Tue, June 1, 2010 12:51:12 AM
> *Subject:* RV-List: Fixing a bad hole...
>
> I've reached the horizontal stabilizer in building my RV-10.
> While drilling the 3/32" holes in the spar doublers for the
> forward spar, I mucked one of the holes up.
>
> In particular, the drill appears to have slid about 3/32"
> sideways while drilling, mis-placing the hole by 3/32".
> Perhaps better explained through pictures:
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YZEMcGR7IQ7RKKSRLDgTIKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/eN0TsDBeAFqGoRwnEt8-s6Iqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/e83Ltq54S8AOdpT-fXhSuKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JklKOOxA-qYDu9BtPMZJeKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
>
> So I know how to fix a hole when you make it slightly too
> large -- you drill it out larger and put an "oops" rivet in
> it. But what can you do to fix a hole which is misplaced? Is
> there a good fix for this? Drilling a hole large enough to
> cover this error would take a rivet larger than 1/8"...
>
> (At worst, I can just replace the spar -- I have a spare, due
> to an earlier error that Van's made, and so I'd just need to
> order some new spar doublers. But I'd like to first learn if
> I can fix this one.)
>
> Also, while I have your ear -- I made this error while using a
> brand new Rigid Cobalt drill bit (like this one:
> http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/332-Cobalt-Drill-Bit/EN/index.htm). The
> bit appears to be able to cut sideways just as well (or even
> better) than it can drill straight ahead in aluminum. It also
> takes about 20-30 seconds per hole drilling at 4000rpm
> (assuming my air drill is making its rated speed) while
> applying moderate pressure. Is this a known problem with this
> type of bit, or is my drilling technique off? I've ordered
> some "aviation" 3/32" bits from Avery, but wanted to know if I
> should expect it to be easier to drill straight with those bits.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Chris
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> ==========
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trouble with Altimeter |
Maybe there's still some trapped water in the system???
Linn
david cook wrote:
> Went out to the airport today to blow out the static line and adjust
> the altimeter. It was back to normal.
> Took a flight and it worked OK. Had some flutter to it though. Don't
> know about it's longevity.
>
> David R. Cook
> N815DC RV-6
> Flying
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* david cook
> *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Mon, May 31, 2010 10:34:17 PM
> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Trouble with Altimeter
>
> Thanks for the replies. I will let you know the end result.
>
> David R. Cook
> N815DC RV-6
> Flying
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* david cook
> *To:* RV-List
> *Sent:* Sat, May 29, 2010 8:37:40 PM
> *Subject:* RV-List: Trouble with Altimeter
>
> Hi All
> My altimeter just went crazy. Jumped in the ole 6 and spotted the
> altitude had gone up 300 feet. Reset to field elevation and the
> pressure reading was 28.7. I looked around an there was no hurricane
> in sight.
> Any one have an explanation. The unit is only 3 years old from Vans.
> Do I just reset it or is there a problem?
>
> Dave
>
> David R. Cook
> N815DC RV-6
> Flying
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fixing a bad hole... |
Of all the rhetoric this thread has generated, I find the suggestion of
making the hole 'clean' to accept a rivet .... put one in, and then use
the skin as a guide to redrill the hole .... with a good bit. As Kelly
said in a previous post .... fixing (not replacing) an oops will become
a common skill.
Linn
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Sounds like your drill bit was either bent, or not installed straight
> in the drill. You shouldn't get that kind of wobble from a drill bit.
> You can keep a few pieces of scrap to test a drill bit on before
> doing critical parts, and to fine tune your rivet gun pressures before
> driving any that will look bad if not driven right.
> Don't feel bad. I know one or two people that misread the instructions
> and misdrilled those doublers, needing to obtain new ones. When you
> get into wings and fuselage you will forget all those minor speed
> bumps on the tail.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Thorne" <rv7a(at)cox.net> |
Here is a tough one that maybe some of you guys can point me in the
right direction to look. Set up is: RV-7A with an SL-30, Bob Archer
antenna in left wingtip, with PTT on stick also FWIW I have a P-Mag and
E-mag. Radio is excellent on ground in both transmit and receive,
reception in air is OK however when I press the PTT the noise is
horrible with static and breaking up. This has been a consistent
condition. Attempts to correct the problem have been: checking antenna
installation in wingtip, everything seems fine, Checking connectors
where stick PTT plugs into the system, the PTT pin may not have been
fully seated, it is now, trying different headsets. Nothing has solved
the problem to date. I have been working with the tower on this flying
the same circuit and when I contact them it is always somewhere between
almost NORDO to just generally poor communications. When I'm back on the
ground everything is just fine again. Ideas, directions or suggestions?
Jim Thorne
RV-7A CHD
About 12 Hours now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
| Subject: | New safety tool - canopy breaker |
We just received a shipment of a brand new safety item. The Sabre Aviation
canopy breaker is something that many of us would want to consider placing
right next to our fire extinguisher. Check it out.
http://www.flyboyaccessories.com/sto...roducts_id=377
cessories.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76&products_
id=377>
http://www.flyboyaccessories.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&c
Path=76&products_id=377
Thanks,
__________________
Vince Frazier
www.flyboyaccessories.com<http://www.flyboyaccessories.com>
RV and Rocket Accessories, Tailwheels, Tools, & More
1-888-8FLYBOY (1-888-835-9269)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
Jim,
My guess is you have a classic example of installing a fairly complex
antenna, following instructions, but then not doing the antenna testing and
tuning to make it work. From your description you have RF getting back into
the audio, either via the radio or audio panel. The first thing I would
look at is antenna tuning. If not properly tuned, the antenna will reflect
some of the transmit energy back to the radio via the feed line. While a
very poor antenna will always receive and transmit something, both will be
degraded. On the ground the proximity to the earth may mask this problem.
I built two wingtip antennas similar in design to the Archer antenna. I
also have 30 years of playing with all kinds of antennas and some basic test
equipment to verify they are properly tuned. The one op check I did with
someone flying next to me using an out of the box Archer antenna resulted in
the controller hearing me but not hearing the other guy. I can also verify
the wingtip communication antenna does not work as well as a belly mounted
whip (my primary antenna), but it works good enough.
The Archer is a good product, but without tuning it or not having it
properly mounted the performance could be hit or miss. Recommend you find
yourself a knowledgeable Amateur Radio Operator to come over and take a
look.
Carl Froehlich
KV4U
RV-8A (540 hrs)
RV-10 (system install)
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Thorne
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 1:42 PM
Subject: RV-List: Radio Noise
Here is a tough one that maybe some of you guys can point me in the right
direction to look. Set up is: RV-7A with an SL-30, Bob Archer antenna in
left wingtip, with PTT on stick also FWIW I have a P-Mag and E-mag. Radio
is excellent on ground in both transmit and receive, reception in air is OK
however when I press the PTT the noise is horrible with static and breaking
up. This has been a consistent condition. Attempts to correct the problem
have been: checking antenna installation in wingtip, everything seems fine,
Checking connectors where stick PTT plugs into the system, the PTT pin may
not have been fully seated, it is now, trying different headsets. Nothing
has solved the problem to date. I have been working with the tower on this
flying the same circuit and when I contact them it is always somewhere
between almost NORDO to just generally poor communications. When I'm back on
the ground everything is just fine again. Ideas, directions or suggestions?
Jim Thorne
RV-7A CHD
About 12 Hours now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HCRV6(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Fixing a bad hole... |
And to repeat myself, dump the fractional drill bits and get some decent #40 (or
#41 doesn't really matter) and #30 aircraft split point bits from Avery or Cleveland.
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 692 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Colohan" <rv10(at)colohan.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2010 2:27:06 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fixing a bad hole...
I have the Avery drill -- the issue here is not that I started the hole in
the wrong place, but that once the hole started through one piece of
aluminum the bit managed to expand the hole sideways into a giant oval
instead of drilling through the next piece. It acted more like a router
than a drill. :-(
After the messages on this list and off -- I've ordered new HS-1013 doublers
from Van's, and will use this with my spare spar to redo the whole thing the
right way.
Chris
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Also, you need a drill with a good teasing trigger that you can start very
> slow, and only after the drill bit has started, run the speed up high.
> Chicago Pneumatics makes a good one that Avery sells for around $125, and
> there are the Sioux drills for about double that.
>
>
>
> On 6/1/2010 7:43 AM, John Bright wrote:
>
>> It's only one hole of tens... not a structural issue... you could do your
>> best with an oops rivet and move on. Is it a cosmetic issue with the skin?
>> You don't show the skin... is the skin bungled-up also? You could fill
>> around it on the exterior skin cosmetically with pro-seal when you mix it
>> for the tanks.
>>
>> I like the 135 degree split points. IMO cobalt or TiN or whatever does not
>> matter to us with this aluminum. Split points have less tendency to walk
>> than 118 degree non split points but they will still walk. All drills make
>> triangular holes in thin sheet metal.
>>
>> I use an electric drill that spins maybe 2,400 rpm and I go thru skin and
>> doubler in 1 or 2 seconds. I don't know what's going on with 20-30 seconds
>> but something is wrong.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John Bright
>> o:757-864-2305
>> c:757-812-1909
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* Chris Colohan
>> *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>
>> *Sent:* Tue, June 1, 2010 12:51:12 AM
>> *Subject:* RV-List: Fixing a bad hole...
>>
>> I've reached the horizontal stabilizer in building my RV-10. While
>> drilling the 3/32" holes in the spar doublers for the forward spar, I mucked
>> one of the holes up.
>>
>> In particular, the drill appears to have slid about 3/32" sideways while
>> drilling, mis-placing the hole by 3/32". Perhaps better explained through
>> pictures:
>>
>>
>> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YZEMcGR7IQ7RKKSRLDgTIKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
>>
>> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/eN0TsDBeAFqGoRwnEt8-s6Iqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
>>
>> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/e83Ltq54S8AOdpT-fXhSuKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
>>
>> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JklKOOxA-qYDu9BtPMZJeKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
>>
>> So I know how to fix a hole when you make it slightly too large -- you
>> drill it out larger and put an "oops" rivet in it. But what can you do to
>> fix a hole which is misplaced? Is there a good fix for this? Drilling a
>> hole large enough to cover this error would take a rivet larger than 1/8"...
>>
>> (At worst, I can just replace the spar -- I have a spare, due to an
>> earlier error that Van's made, and so I'd just need to order some new spar
>> doublers. But I'd like to first learn if I can fix this one.)
>>
>> Also, while I have your ear -- I made this error while using a brand new
>> Rigid Cobalt drill bit (like this one:
>> http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/332-Cobalt-Drill-Bit/EN/index.htm). The bit
>> appears to be able to cut sideways just as well (or even better) than it can
>> drill straight ahead in aluminum. It also takes about 20-30 seconds per
>> hole drilling at 4000rpm (assuming my air drill is making its rated speed)
>> while applying moderate pressure. Is this a known problem with this type of
>> bit, or is my drilling technique off? I've ordered some "aviation" 3/32"
>> bits from Avery, but wanted to know if I should expect it to be easier to
>> drill straight with those bits.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fixing a bad hole... |
| From: | Chris Colohan <rv10(at)colohan.com> |
I took your advice and ordered new bits from Avery Sunday night when I
ordered the replacement parts. Hopefully they arrive before next weekend...
Thanks!
Chris
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 9:29 PM, wrote:
> And to repeat myself, dump the fractional drill bits and get some decent
> #40 (or #41 doesn't really matter) and #30 aircraft split point bits from
> Avery or Cleveland.
>
>
> Harry Crosby
> RV-6 N16CX, 692 hours
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Colohan" <rv10(at)colohan.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2010 2:27:06 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fixing a bad hole...
>
> I have the Avery drill -- the issue here is not that I started the hole in
> the wrong place, but that once the hole started through one piece of
> aluminum the bit managed to expand the hole sideways into a giant oval
> instead of drilling through the next piece. It acted more like a router
> than a drill. :-(
>
> After the messages on this list and off -- I've ordered new HS-1013
> doublers
> from Van's, and will use this with my spare spar to redo the whole thing
> the
> right way.
>
> Chris
>
> On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Kelly McMullen
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Also, you need a drill with a good teasing trigger that you can start
> very
> > slow, and only after the drill bit has started, run the speed up high.
> > Chicago Pneumatics makes a good one that Avery sells for around $125, and
> > there are the Sioux drills for about double that.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 6/1/2010 7:43 AM, John Bright wrote:
> >
> >> It's only one hole of tens... not a structural issue... you could do
> your
> >> best with an oops rivet and move on. Is it a cosmetic issue with the
> skin?
> >> You don't show the skin... is the skin bungled-up also? You could fill
> >> around it on the exterior skin cosmetically with pro-seal when you mix
> it
> >> for the tanks.
> >>
> >> I like the 135 degree split points. IMO cobalt or TiN or whatever does
> not
> >> matter to us with this aluminum. Split points have less tendency to walk
> >> than 118 degree non split points but they will still walk. All drills
> make
> >> triangular holes in thin sheet metal.
> >>
> >> I use an electric drill that spins maybe 2,400 rpm and I go thru skin
> and
> >> doubler in 1 or 2 seconds. I don't know what's going on with 20-30
> seconds
> >> but something is wrong.
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> John Bright
> >> o:757-864-2305
> >> c:757-812-1909
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> *From:* Chris Colohan
> >> *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >>
> >> *Sent:* Tue, June 1, 2010 12:51:12 AM
> >> *Subject:* RV-List: Fixing a bad hole...
> >>
> >> I've reached the horizontal stabilizer in building my RV-10. While
> >> drilling the 3/32" holes in the spar doublers for the forward spar, I
> mucked
> >> one of the holes up.
> >>
> >> In particular, the drill appears to have slid about 3/32" sideways while
> >> drilling, mis-placing the hole by 3/32". Perhaps better explained
> through
> >> pictures:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YZEMcGR7IQ7RKKSRLDgTIKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
> >>
> >>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/eN0TsDBeAFqGoRwnEt8-s6Iqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
> >>
> >>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/e83Ltq54S8AOdpT-fXhSuKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
> >>
> >>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JklKOOxA-qYDu9BtPMZJeKIqw9YRHPUJIjz5HHlTjwc?feat=directlink
> >>
> >> So I know how to fix a hole when you make it slightly too large -- you
> >> drill it out larger and put an "oops" rivet in it. But what can you do
> to
> >> fix a hole which is misplaced? Is there a good fix for this? Drilling
> a
> >> hole large enough to cover this error would take a rivet larger than
> 1/8"...
> >>
> >> (At worst, I can just replace the spar -- I have a spare, due to an
> >> earlier error that Van's made, and so I'd just need to order some new
> spar
> >> doublers. But I'd like to first learn if I can fix this one.)
> >>
> >> Also, while I have your ear -- I made this error while using a brand new
> >> Rigid Cobalt drill bit (like this one:
> >> http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/332-Cobalt-Drill-Bit/EN/index.htm). The
> bit
> >> appears to be able to cut sideways just as well (or even better) than it
> can
> >> drill straight ahead in aluminum. It also takes about 20-30 seconds per
> >> hole drilling at 4000rpm (assuming my air drill is making its rated
> speed)
> >> while applying moderate pressure. Is this a known problem with this
> type of
> >> bit, or is my drilling technique off? I've ordered some "aviation"
> 3/32"
> >> bits from Avery, but wanted to know if I should expect it to be easier
> to
> >> drill straight with those bits.
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
> >> *
> >>
> >>
> >> *
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | some approx V speeds |
| From: | thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
Anticpating the first flight of my RV-6A, can some one tell me typical Vx
and Vy, best angle of glide speed, and Va for these planes. I can refine
them after it is flying, but I'd like to have some idea of what to expect to
start with.
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: some approx V speeds |
Try out my POH for that and more.
N1GV (RV-6A Flying 944TTAE Silicon Valley, CA)
Ya'know this reminds me very little of the time I wired my tinfoil hat in
series with the output of an early 1990's vintage Sovtek MIG-100 amplifier,
detuned the B string of my bass a few sonts short of 60Hz Dinah Moe HUMM,
slathered the strings with braunschweiger and turned the cats loose upon
it. Taken altogether, synergistically and copacetically, the net effect was
nothing short of...thrilling.
In a message dated 6/2/2010 10:41:24 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
sarg314(at)gmail.com writes:
Anticpating the first flight of my RV-6A, can some one tell me typical Vx
and Vy, best angle of glide speed, and Va for these planes. I can refine
them after it is flying, but I'd like to have some idea of what to expect to
start with.
--
Tom Sargent
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Formation Invitation - San Jose RHV June 26, 2010 |
| From: | bob mackey <n103md(at)yahoo.com> |
The Reid-Hillview Airport Association would like to invite the RV
Formation community to San Jose Reid-Hillview Airport (RHV) for our
June 26 Airport Day. There is no airshow or formal waivered airspace.
But there will be room to fly and an appreciative audience. The tower
understands the needs of formation and is very accommodating. If you
can bring a group of RVs, Rockets, or mixed formation, great. We'd
love to see you and fly with you.
I'll be in the little blue Lancair.
-bob mackey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: some approx V speeds |
Thomas, which engine and prop do you have? Whether you have fixed pitch
or constant speed prop makes a difference.
----- Original Message -----
From: thomas sargent
To: rv-list
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 1:37 AM
Subject: RV-List: some approx V speeds
Anticpating the first flight of my RV-6A, can some one tell me typical
Vx and Vy, best angle of glide speed, and Va for these planes. I can
refine them after it is flying, but I'd like to have some idea of what
to expect to start with.
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
Jim,
I have the Icom A200 radio, but the symptoms sound similar enough. I woul
d suggest you
turn down the Mic Gain in the radio. For my first flights, it was painful
to key the mic as
the noise in my ears was like a sledgehammer. The cockpit of the RV's is
a really noisy
place and that noise gets into the mic and gets amplified. On the Icom,
there is a foil
sticky on the top surface of the radio. Peel that back and there is a var
iable resistor inside.
Note where it is, then turn it down some. I think in my case it was origi
nally about half way
and I turned it down to about 1/4 and took a flight to check. After about
three flights, you'll
zero in on where you want it. I hope this is the cause of your problem be
cause it is an
easy fix.
Rick Grenwis
RV-6A 220 hours Denver, CO
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________
________
From: "Jim Thorne" <rv7a(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV-List: Radio Noise
Here is a tough one that maybe some of you guys can point me in the
right direction to look. Set up is: RV-7A with an SL-30, Bob Archer
antenna in left wingtip, with PTT on stick also FWIW I have a P-Mag and
E-mag. Radio is excellent on ground in both transmit and receive,
reception in air is OK however when I press the PTT the noise is
horrible with static and breaking up. This has been a consistent
condition. Attempts to correct the problem have been: checking antenna
installation in wingtip, everything seems fine, Checking connectors
where stick PTT plugs into the system, the PTT pin may not have been
fully seated, it is now, trying different headsets. Nothing has solved
the problem to date. I have been working with the tower on this flying
the same circuit and when I contact them it is always somewhere between
almost NORDO to just generally poor communications. When I'm back on the
ground everything is just fine again. Ideas, directions or suggestions?
Jim Thorne
RV-7A CHD
About 12 Hours now.
______
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: some approx V speeds |
| From: | thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
Kyle:
I have a fixed pitch Catto prop and an IO-360-B2B.
On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 3:57 AM, Kyle Boatright wrote:
> Thomas, which engine and prop do you have? Whether you have fixed pitch
> or constant speed prop makes a difference.
>
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stormy's Fly-In 2010 |
| From: | Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
A little update... the river float is the yearly highlight of our fly-in,
and we have just gotten ourselves some new tubes to replace the old truck
inner tubes we've always used before. These are nice PVC inflatables with
comfortable seating, headrest, mesh bottom, quick-inflate valves, drink
holders, and rave reviews from other users. We tried 'em out Memorial Day
and can confirm they are far nicer and more comfortable than black rubber
tubes with slow leaks (as most of our old tubes quickly develop).
While not essential (we still have quite a few of the old tubes on hand and
can patch them), we are recommending that guests wanting to have the best
tubing experience this year order tubes like we did from Amazon or another
vendor. We paid 13.88 for the tubes with free shipping and I see they have
already gone up a bit as river season arrived. Might want to order NOW ;-)
http://www.amazon.com/Intex-58825-River-Run-I/dp/B000PEOMC8
-Bill B
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Bill Boyd wrote:
> Hi, folks! It's June already - time for the 2010 river-float/BBQ fly-in at
> the Boyds' place.
>
> Location: Hop-Along Airfield, identifier 12VA - 2100 x 50 ft turf strip
> between Roanoke and Hot Springs, VA.
>
> Date: Saturday, June 26, 2010
>
> Time: Arrivals welcome from 9 AM to Noon (or later, if need be).
>
> Schedule: BBQ lunch at 12:00
> River float at 14:00 (Takes 1.5 - 2 hours)
>
> Activities available: Billiards, horse shoes, frisbee, hot tub, camp fire,
> chip & putt...
>
> (R.O.N. camping is available the night before and /or after the Fly-In.
> Contact us ahead of time if you want to take advantage of this, please.)
>
> Updates and more details to follow... We're looking forward to having
> y'all back this year!
>
> -Bill & Miriam Boyd
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robin Marks <Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> |
| Subject: | some approx V speeds |
Tom, This was my kneepad checklist when flying my 6A. Hope it helps. Note
all speeds in MPH.
Robin
*From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *thomas sargent
*Sent:* Thursday, June 03, 2010 6:44 AM
*To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com
*Subject:* Re: RV-List: some approx V speeds
Kyle:
I have a fixed pitch Catto prop and an IO-360-B2B.
On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 3:57 AM, Kyle Boatright
wrote:
Thomas, which engine and prop do you have? Whether you have fixed pitch or
constant speed prop makes a difference.
--
Tom Sargent
* *
* *
* *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wheeler North" <wnorth(at)sdccd.edu> |
While I think we can prove that an airplane will perform best at some
specific speed like 91.23098 kts I would defy anyone to be able to keep it
at that airspeed, particularly on a gusty day with thermals and in an
emergency, while you are actually supposed to be looking out versus pegging
your eyes to interior gauges.
Reduce your mental workload by keeping it simple. 90kts for everything in
the ATA or an emergency, 70kts for anything with flaps out. On this latter
one if you are not comfortable with the airplane kick that up to 75 or 80
kts, but know that this will cause you to float a bit as you rotate to touch
down.
Practice slow flight ASAP and often, we should all do this... the advice is
straight from the mouth of Dick VanGrunsven. Then use 70 kts for all flaps
down operations.
The 90kts value also gives you more time to process things, see other
aircraft, make sounder decisions etc. as opposed to screaming into downwind
at warp factor 12 only to piss off some poor C150 as you climb up their
static port...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net> |
Wheeler, this one will likely stir up a blizzard of responses.
Piloting techniques do vary quite a bit. I look forward to reading a
lot of information and misinformation.
As for me, I want to go on record as agreeing with you 100%.
D. Walsh
On Jun 4, 2010, at 8:49 , Wheeler North wrote:
>
> While I think we can prove that an airplane will perform best at some
> specific speed like 91.23098 kts I would defy anyone to be able to
> keep it
> at that airspeed, particularly on a gusty day with thermals and in an
> emergency, while you are actually supposed to be looking out versus
> pegging
> your eyes to interior gauges.
> Reduce your mental workload by keeping it simple. 90kts for
> everything in
> the ATA or an emergency, 70kts for anything with flaps out. On this
> latter
> one if you are not comfortable with the airplane kick that up to 75
> or 80
> kts, but know that this will cause you to float a bit as you rotate
> to touch
> down.
> Practice slow flight ASAP and often, we should all do this... the
> advice is
> straight from the mouth of Dick VanGrunsven. Then use 70 kts for all
> flaps
> down operations.
> The 90kts value also gives you more time to process things, see other
> aircraft, make sounder decisions etc. as opposed to screaming into
> downwind
> at warp factor 12 only to piss off some poor C150 as you climb up
> their
> static port...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HCRV6(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: some approx V speeds |
Please explain:
Whether you have fixed pitch or constant speed prop makes a difference.
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 693 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: some approx V speeds |
| From: | thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
Yes. I have a fixed pitch prop and a 180hp IO-360-B2B
On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 1:08 PM, wrote:
> Please explain:
>
>
> Whether you have fixed pitch or constant speed prop makes a difference.
>
> Harry Crosby
> RV-6 N16CX, 693 hours
>
>
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | some approx V speeds |
Harry,
When I first did my airspeed checks with my fixed pitch prop RV-6A, I
couldn't get anywhere near the performance/airspeed figures that Van quoted.
It turns out his figures are for engines with a constant speed prop.
My best climb speed Vy turns out to be 120 MPH IAS, considerably higher than
the Van's figure.
I'm sure there is someone out there that can give you a more understandable
explanation - but it goes something like this.
Here is how I see it - with a constant speed prop, you can get more HP at
slow airspeeds by making the pitch finer producing less load on the engine,
which results in more RPM which results in more HP. When you are discussing
climb it's the EXTRA HP above that required to maintain level flight than
causes you to climb. If you can increase your HP above that necessary for
level flight, you can increase your climb rate at any airspeed (well, just
about)..
With a fixed pitch prop, you have the maximum load on the prop and therefore
the engine at slower airspeeds during climb-out, that keeps the rpm lower
and therefore HP down compared to a constant speed prop. Therefore, in
order to get more climb you need to produce more HP, with a fixed pitch prop
you do that by flying a higher airspeed unloading the prop and engine a bit
thereby permitting more rpm and HP and higher climb rate.
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
<http://www.andersonee.com> http://www.andersonee.com
<http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
http://www.flyrotary.com/
<http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm>
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
<http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: some approx V speeds
Please explain:
Whether you have fixed pitch or constant speed prop makes a difference.
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 693 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: some approx V speeds |
I was messing around a few months ago, making some charts to illustrate
a magazine article on climb performance that I intend to finish
someday. I used the combination of CAFE Foundation drag vs speed data
for the RV-6A, Lycoming O-360 power charts and some Hartzell prop
efficiency maps. I used that data to predict climb performance at
various altitudes and speeds. I didn't have any fixed pitch prop
efficiency data, so I used the Hartzell data, but forced it to use the
same pitch for all conditions. The pitch was selected to give 2700 rpm
at full throttle at 8000 ft.
The attached chart shows how Vx and Vy are predicted to vary with
altitude for both fixed pitch and constant speed props. You will note
that Vx and Vy are quite a bit faster with fixed pitch props, as the rpm
and power increase as the airspeed is increased. You will also note
that there is a significant variation of Vx and Vy with altitude.
I caution that this is a very crude prediction. It may not match the
actual performance at all, so use at your own risk. It is interesting
to note that the predicted fixed pitch Vy at sea level (105 kt, or 121
mph) is close to what Ed found. That may be blind luck.
Kevin Horton
Ottawa, Canada
On 04/06/10 07:41 PM, Ed Anderson wrote:
>
> Harry,
>
> When I first did my airspeed checks with my fixed pitch prop RV-6A, I
> couldn't get anywhere near the performance/airspeed figures that Van
> quoted. It turns out his figures are for engines with a constant
> speed prop.
>
> My best climb speed Vy turns out to be 120 MPH IAS, considerably
> higher than the Van's figure.
>
> I'm sure there is someone out there that can give you a more
> understandable explanation -- but it goes something like this.
>
> Here is how I see it -- with a constant speed prop, you can get more
> HP at slow airspeeds by making the pitch finer producing less load on
> the engine, which results in more RPM which results in more HP. When
> you are discussing climb it's the EXTRA HP above that required to
> maintain level flight than causes you to climb. If you can increase
> your HP above that necessary for level flight, you can increase your
> climb rate at any airspeed (well, just about)..
>
> With a fixed pitch prop, you have the maximum load on the prop and
> therefore the engine at slower airspeeds during climb-out, that keeps
> the rpm lower and therefore HP down compared to a constant speed
> prop. Therefore, in order to get more climb you need to produce more
> HP, with a fixed pitch prop you do that by flying a higher airspeed
> unloading the prop and engine a bit thereby permitting more rpm and HP
> and higher climb rate.
>
> Ed
>
> Ed Anderson
>
> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>
> Matthews, NC
>
> eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
>
> http://www.andersonee.com
>
> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
>
> http://www.flyrotary.com/
>
> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
> <http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm>
>
> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *HCRV6(at)comcast.net
> *Sent:* Friday, June 04, 2010 4:09 PM
> *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: some approx V speeds
>
> Please explain:
>
> Whether you have fixed pitch or constant speed prop makes a difference.
>
> Harry Crosby
> RV-6 N16CX, 693 hours
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fwd: List Introduction & Main spar falls off workbench |
| From: | James S Clark IV <james.s.clark(at)comcast.net> |
Hello RV'ers,
I've been lurking, reading, and building an RV7A slow build since
2007. I thought I'd introduce myself to the list prior to my first
request for help!
Well it took till getting the fuselage kit for the first major problem
to strike: a comedy of errors, on which I would truly appreciate some
advice:
Assembling the main spar center section, I had just constructed and
temp bolted the wood spacer blocks between the fore and aft main spars
to check for fit.
Things looked good and I left the center spar on the workbench for the
night. Unfortunately, I left it on a piece of foam which gradually
compressed and the spar fell off the table 3 feet to the concrete and
linoleum floor!
The first floor strike appeared to bend a corner of the spar web down
90 degrees on a 45 degree bias. This is on the forward left lower side
of the front spar web (where the 7A gear leg will go through later)
I just knew it was stressed and would crack bending it back and it did
when bent about half way back. I stop drilled the crack #30 and bent
it the rest of the way back flat. I then sanded and scotchbrited a
smooth slot.
My question is (and I will ask Vans):
This is a small crack, but it is in a BAD place (1 inch to main spar bolts).
Is my fix OK? Is there a better solution? This piece is matched to my
left and right main wing spars and wings are 90% done. Is it
impossible to get a new center section front spar?
Looking at the drawings, I note:
Both the forward bottom skin and the aft bottom skin overlap this
lower spar web flange at the front spar (lots of skin thickness here).
Are there no stresses on the corner of this web at this location?
The landing gear leg on the 7A will require scalloping a bit of this
flange away anyway, but that scallop area (approximated by red pen in
picture) is closer to the second rivet hole than the first. I got
excited when I saw this as I thought I might cut my error away anyway,
but it looks like the scallop will miss the damaged area.
Well so much for you all thinking highly of me on my first intro. I've
been pretty careful so far and not many mistakes or drilled fingers,
but boy is this a bummer. Could it have happened on a worse piece?
Thoughts, comments, fixes, and good natured laughter are appreciated.
Best regards,
Jim Clark (Gainesville, VA)
BTW, for some additional comedy: the bucking bar followed the spar off
the table (in the same event) an put a nice dent in the center of the
web to add insult to injury. This is not a show stopper though.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: List Introduction & Main spar falls off workbench |
Just my quick observation is that this appears to be in an area that is
under virtually no stress. My 6A has the old laminated 11g spar, so I can't
be certain about your situation with the new wing spar. I would take the
whole broken area off and smooth the edge transition so that no crack could
propagate from the edge. What attaches to the small holes on the flange?
-GV
In a message dated 6/5/2010 2:03:06 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
james.s.clark(at)comcast.net writes:
Hello RV'ers,
I've been lurking, reading, and building an RV7A slow build since
2007. I thought I'd introduce myself to the list prior to my first
request for help!
Well it took till getting the fuselage kit for the first major problem
to strike: a comedy of errors, on which I would truly appreciate some
advice:
Assembling the main spar center section, I had just constructed and
temp bolted the wood spacer blocks between the fore and aft main spars
to check for fit.
Things looked good and I left the center spar on the workbench for the
night. Unfortunately, I left it on a piece of foam which gradually
compressed and the spar fell off the table 3 feet to the concrete and
linoleum floor!
The first floor strike appeared to bend a corner of the spar web down
90 degrees on a 45 degree bias. This is on the forward left lower side
of the front spar web (where the 7A gear leg will go through later)
I just knew it was stressed and would crack bending it back and it did
when bent about half way back. I stop drilled the crack #30 and bent
it the rest of the way back flat. I then sanded and scotchbrited a
smooth slot.
My question is (and I will ask Vans):
This is a small crack, but it is in a BAD place (1 inch to main spar
bolts).
Is my fix OK? Is there a better solution? This piece is matched to my
left and right main wing spars and wings are 90% done. Is it
impossible to get a new center section front spar?
Looking at the drawings, I note:
Both the forward bottom skin and the aft bottom skin overlap this
lower spar web flange at the front spar (lots of skin thickness here).
Are there no stresses on the corner of this web at this location?
The landing gear leg on the 7A will require scalloping a bit of this
flange away anyway, but that scallop area (approximated by red pen in
picture) is closer to the second rivet hole than the first. I got
excited when I saw this as I thought I might cut my error away anyway,
but it looks like the scallop will miss the damaged area.
Well so much for you all thinking highly of me on my first intro. I've
been pretty careful so far and not many mistakes or drilled fingers,
but boy is this a bummer. Could it have happened on a worse piece?
Thoughts, comments, fixes, and good natured laughter are appreciated.
Best regards,
Jim Clark (Gainesville, VA)
BTW, for some additional comedy: the bucking bar followed the spar off
the table (in the same event) an put a nice dent in the center of the
web to add insult to injury. This is not a show stopper though.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: List Introduction & Main spar falls off workbench |
| From: | James S Clark IV <james.s.clark(at)comcast.net> |
These holes on the flange are on the bottom and rivet to the forward
lower skin and the rear lower skin. The two skins overlap both the
front spar (problem area) and the rear spar.
I agree after studying the plans a bunch that this last rivet hole is
not likely to be under much if any stress.
Do others familiar with the 7A spar agree?
If I remove the 1st rivet hole, or the first and 2nd rivet holes on
the flange, should I replace this with a similar thickness backer
strip of aluminum when riveting the skin overlap in this area?
Other opinions?
Thanks,
Jim
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 7:33 PM, wrote:
> Just my quick observation is that this appears to be in an area that is
> under virtually no stress. My 6A has the old laminated 11g spar, so I can't
> be certain about your situationwith the new wing spar. I would take the
> whole broken area off and smooth the edge transitionso that no crack could
> propagate from the edge. What attaches to the small holes on the flange?
>
> -GV
>
> In a message dated 6/5/2010 2:03:06 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> james.s.clark(at)comcast.net writes:
>
> Hello RV'ers,
>
> I've been lurking, reading, and building an RV7A slow build since
> 2007. I thought I'd introduce myself to the list prior to my first
> request for help!
>
> Well it took till getting the fuselage kit for the first major problem
> to strike: a comedy of errors, on which I would truly appreciate some
> advice:
>
> Assembling the main spar center section, I had just constructed and
> temp bolted the wood spacer blocks between the fore and aft main spars
> to check for fit.
> Things looked good and I left the center spar on the workbench for the
> night. Unfortunately, I left it on a piece of foam which gradually
> compressed and the spar fell off the table 3 feet to the concrete and
> linoleum floor!
>
> The first floor strike appeared to bend a corner of the spar web down
> 90 degrees on a 45 degree bias. This is on the forward left lower side
> of the front spar web (where the 7A gear leg will go through later)
> I just knew it was stressed and would crack bending it back and it did
> when bent about half way back. I stop drilled the crack #30 and bent
> it the rest of the way back flat. I then sanded and scotchbrited a
> smooth slot.
>
> My question is (and I will ask Vans):
> This is a small crack, but it is in a BAD place (1 inch to main spar bolts).
> Is my fix OK? Is there a better solution? This piece is matched to my
> left and right main wing spars and wings are 90% done. Is it
> impossible to get a new center section front spar?
>
> Looking at the drawings, I note:
> Both the forward bottom skin and the aft bottom skin overlap this
> lower spar web flange at the front spar (lots of skin thickness here).
> Are there no stresses on the corner of this web at this location?
> The landing gear leg on the 7A will require scalloping a bit of this
> flange away anyway, but that scallop area (approximated by red pen in
> picture) is closer to the second rivet hole than the first. I got
> excited when I saw this as I thought I might cut my error away anyway,
> but it looks like the scallop will miss the damaged area.
>
> Well so much for you all thinking highly of me on my first intro. I've
> been pretty careful so far and not many mistakes or drilled fingers,
> but boy is this a bummer. Could it have happened on a worse piece?
>
> Thoughts, comments, fixes, and good natured laughter are appreciated.
>
> Best regards,
> Jim Clark (Gainesville, VA)
>
> BTW, for some additional comedy: the bucking bar followed the spar off
> the table (in the same event) an put a nice dent in the center of the
> web to add insult to injury. This is not a show stopper though.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Sweet Pics From Cross Country To Lake Tahoe Today... |
Dear Listers,
The second major cross country post-Phase 1 this weekend took us to South Lake Tahoe in our continuing "Quest For A $100 Hamburger"... The weather was unbelievable today. Simply amazing! We ran into Marc Ausman of Vertical Power fame http://www.verticalpower.com as we were fueling up for our trip home. Marc has another sweet Lycoming IO-390 powered RV.
After lunch, we took a flight over Reno at about 11000ft.
Who knew this RV-8 was going to be such a fun vehicle of journey! :-)
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Sweet Pics From Cross Country To Lake Tahoe Today... |
Glad you're not letting any moss grow on it.
N1GV (RV-6A Flying 944TTAE Silicon Valley, CA)
"I know what you're thinking, punk," hissed Wordy Harry to his new editor,
"you're thinking, 'Did he use six superfluous adjectives or only five?' -
and to tell the truth, I forgot myself in all this excitement; but being as
this is English, the most powerful language in the world, whose subtle
nuances will blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one
question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' - well do you, punk?"
In a message dated 6/5/2010 9:31:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
dralle(at)matronics.com writes:
The second major cross country post-Phase 1 this weekend took us to South
Lake Tahoe in our continuing "Quest For A $100 Hamburger".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Piece of Grass 2010 refunds |
You've probably heard by now that the spot on which we have had the RV
get-together at Oshkosh ("Piece of Grass") for (most of) the last 6
years
is not likely to be available to us because EAA is moving the 24-hour
generator area out to the middle of the field at Camp Scholler (I don't
really want to camp in a truck stop), which is where people have always
been
able to find us (because we told them exactly where we'll be).
But EAA has still not made maps available for the new Camp Scholler
design
and because it's unclear what the net effect of displacing tenters (like
me)
from that area, I'm in no position to say where my camp area will end up
at.
A couple of alternative locations have fallen apart (it would appear the
Van's dinner is the most likely spot for those who wish to socialize).
A lot of people donated a lot of money to secure 6 camping sites for the
event, and we won't be needing them, so a week or so ago -- because of
the
uncertainty -- I returned it via PayPayl (for those of you who submitted
it
via PayPal). For those of you who sent checks, I've simply shredded the
checks and you should "void" them in your register.
If you HAVEN'T received a refund, please contact me ASAP.
Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H. Ivan Haecker" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piece of Grass 2010 refunds |
MessageAh, thats what's meant by the term "EAA in Action"!
Ivan Haecker
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Collins
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 9:24 AM
Subject: RV-List: Piece of Grass 2010 refunds
You've probably heard by now that the spot on which we have had the RV
get-together at Oshkosh ("Piece of Grass") for (most of) the last 6
years is not likely to be available to us because EAA is moving the
24-hour generator area out to the middle of the field at Camp Scholler
(I don't really want to camp in a truck stop), which is where people
have always been able to find us (because we told them exactly where
we'll be).
But EAA has still not made maps available for the new Camp Scholler
design and because it's unclear what the net effect of displacing
tenters (like me) from that area, I'm in no position to say where my
camp area will end up at. A couple of alternative locations have fallen
apart (it would appear the Van's dinner is the most likely spot for
those who wish to socialize).
A lot of people donated a lot of money to secure 6 camping sites for
the event, and we won't be needing them, so a week or so ago -- because
of the uncertainty -- I returned it via PayPayl (for those of you who
submitted it via PayPal). For those of you who sent checks, I've simply
shredded the checks and you should "void" them in your register.
If you HAVEN'T received a refund, please contact me ASAP.
Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Chainsaw Propeller Carving |
| From: | Helsper <nickhelsper(at)gmail.com> |
There is a propeller carving demo given at Oshkosh every year that shows how
to carve a wooden propeller using all power tools (chainsaws and power
sanders). Here are some pictures of the process, on my blog, if anyone is
interested.
http://nickhelsper.blogspot.com/p/propeller-carving-all-power-tool-method.html
~Nick Helsper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HCRV6(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: some approx V speeds |
Ed,
Thanks for that. Without giving it much thought (make that any thought) my
reaction was, what does it matter what kind of prop? Obviously it does as s
oon as one recognizes the effect of airspeed/RPM on HP with the fixed pitch
props.
My experience is consistent with your observation, at 120 MPH my Catto prop
allows me to climb with any of my buddies with CS props. They always get a
bit of a jump on me at takeoff but as soon as I accelerate to 120 to 130 I
can catch up.
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 695 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Sent: Friday, June 4, 2010 4:41:21 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: RE: RV-List: some approx V speeds
Harry,
When I first did my airspeed checks with my fixed pitch prop RV-6A, I could
n=99t get anywhere near the performance/airspeed figures that Van quo
ted. It turns out his figures are for engines with a constant speed prop.
My best climb speed Vy turns out to be 120 MPH IAS, considerably higher tha
n the Van=99s figure.
I=99m sure there is someone out there that can give you a more unders
tandable explanation =93 but it goes something like this.
Here is how I see it =93 with a constant speed prop, you can get more
HP at slow airspeeds by making the pitch finer producing less load on the
engine, which results in more RPM which results in more HP. When you are di
scussing climb it=99s the EXTRA HP above that required to maintain le
vel flight than causes you to climb. If you can increase your HP above that
necessary for level flight, you can increase your climb rate at any airspe
ed (well, just about)..
With a fixed pitch prop, you have the maximum load on the prop and therefor
e the engine at slower airspeeds during climb-out, that keeps the rpm lower
and therefore HP down compared to a constant speed prop. Therefore, in ord
er to get more climb you need to produce more HP, with a fixed pitch prop y
ou do that by flying a higher airspeed unloading the prop and engine a bit
thereby permitting more rpm and HP and higher climb rate.
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
http://www.flyrotary.com/
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matro
nics.com] On Behalf Of HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: some approx V speeds
Please explain:
Whether you have fixed pitch or constant speed prop makes a difference.
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 693 hours
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com http
=====================
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: List Introduction & Main spar falls off workbench |
Obviously, Van should have the final word. But I'll bet they tell you to clean
up the edges of the crack & build on. It's hard to imagine that one rivet doing
a lot to keep the plane in the air. Take a look at edge distances & see if you
can add a rivet outboard (toward the corner), & one between the original outboard
pair.
Adding a doubler there looks like it would be difficult, with the gear weldment
in that space.
Charlie
________________________________
From: James S Clark IV <james.s.clark(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Sat, June 5, 2010 3:56:56 PM
Subject: RV-List: Fwd: List Introduction & Main spar falls off workbench
Hello RV'ers,
I've been lurking, reading, and building an RV7A slow build since
2007. I thought I'd introduce myself to the list prior to my first
request for help!
Well it took till getting the fuselage kit for the first major problem
to strike: a comedy of errors, on which I would truly appreciate some
advice:
Assembling the main spar center section, I had just constructed and
temp bolted the wood spacer blocks between the fore and aft main spars
to check for fit.
Things looked good and I left the center spar on the workbench for the
night. Unfortunately, I left it on a piece of foam which gradually
compressed and the spar fell off the table 3 feet to the concrete and
linoleum floor!
The first floor strike appeared to bend a corner of the spar web down
90 degrees on a 45 degree bias. This is on the forward left lower side
of the front spar web (where the 7A gear leg will go through later)
I just knew it was stressed and would crack bending it back and it did
when bent about half way back. I stop drilled the crack #30 and bent
it the rest of the way back flat. I then sanded and scotchbrited a
smooth slot.
My question is (and I will ask Vans):
This is a small crack, but it is in a BAD place (1 inch to main spar bolts).
Is my fix OK? Is there a better solution? This piece is matched to my
left and right main wing spars and wings are 90% done. Is it
impossible to get a new center section front spar?
Looking at the drawings, I note:
Both the forward bottom skin and the aft bottom skin overlap this
lower spar web flange at the front spar (lots of skin thickness here).
Are there no stresses on the corner of this web at this location?
The landing gear leg on the 7A will require scalloping a bit of this
flange away anyway, but that scallop area (approximated by red pen in
picture) is closer to the second rivet hole than the first. I got
excited when I saw this as I thought I might cut my error away anyway,
but it looks like the scallop will miss the damaged area.
Well so much for you all thinking highly of me on my first intro. I've
been pretty careful so far and not many mistakes or drilled fingers,
but boy is this a bummer. Could it have happened on a worse piece?
Thoughts, comments, fixes, and good natured laughter are appreciated.
Best regards,
Jim Clark (Gainesville, VA)
BTW, for some additional comedy: the bucking bar followed the spar off
the table (in the same event) an put a nice dent in the center of the
web to add insult to injury. This is not a show stopper though.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | some approx V speeds |
Welcome, Harry.
Yeah, I really thought I had a dog at first, because I couldn't match
Van's performance numbers - just the wrong comparison in my case {:>).
There are certainly benefits to having a C/S on take off - however, for cost
and simplicity reasons, I have not regretted staying fixed pitch.
I swing a 74x 88 Performance Wood Prop which takes all the right rudder I
have in my 6A to keep it on our 35' wide runway, in fact until I hit around
40 mph,
there is not sufficient rudder authority. Take off performance is great,
but I still need to hit 120 MPH to get best rate of climb.
Now if I had to fly up a mountain side after take off - I might sing a
different tune {:>)
ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
<http://www.andersonee.com> http://www.andersonee.com
<http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
http://www.flyrotary.com/
<http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm>
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
<http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: some approx V speeds
Ed,
Thanks for that. Without giving it much thought (make that any thought) my
reaction was, what does it matter what kind of prop? Obviously it does as
soon as one recognizes the effect of airspeed/RPM on HP with the fixed pitch
props.
My experience is consistent with your observation, at 120 MPH my Catto prop
allows me to climb with any of my buddies with CS props. They always get a
bit of a jump on me at takeoff but as soon as I accelerate to 120 to 130 I
can catch up.
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 695 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Sent: Friday, June 4, 2010 4:41:21 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: RE: RV-List: some approx V speeds
Harry,
When I first did my airspeed checks with my fixed pitch prop RV-6A, I
couldn't get anywhere near the performance/airspeed figures that Van quoted.
It turns out his figures are for engines with a constant speed prop.
My best climb speed Vy turns out to be 120 MPH IAS, considerably higher than
the Van's figure.
I'm sure there is someone out there that can give you a more understandable
explanation - but it goes something like this.
Here is how I see it - with a constant speed prop, you can get more HP at
slow airspeeds by making the pitch finer producing less load on the engine,
which results in more RPM which results in more HP. When you are discussing
climb it's the EXTRA HP above that required to maintain level flight than
causes you to climb. If you can increase your HP above that necessary for
level flight, you can increase your climb rate at any airspeed (well, just
about)..
With a fixed pitch prop, you have the maximum load on the prop and therefore
the engine at slower airspeeds during climb-out, that keeps the rpm lower
and therefore HP down compared to a constant speed prop. Therefore, in
order to get more climb you need to produce more HP, with a fixed pitch prop
you do that by flying a higher airspeed unloading the prop and engine a bit
thereby permitting more rpm and HP and higher climb rate.
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
<http://www.andersonee.com> http://www.andersonee.com
<http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
http://www.flyrotary.com/
<http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm>
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
<http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: some approx V speeds
Please explain:
Whether you have fixed pitch or constant speed prop makes a difference.
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 693 hours
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "don wentz" <dasduck(at)comcast.net> |
Hey RVers,
anyone in the vicinity of Cedar City UT?
Have an RV-6 stranded there with electrical/battery issues.
pls call 503-703 1724
thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | engine serial number? |
| From: | thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
I am filling out the forms to request an airworthiness inspection. Form
8130-12 asks for the engine model and serial number. Mine is an Aerosport
Power rebuild. The Aerosport power data plate on the engine shows the
serial number as 0240, which in retrospect (after I got back home) seems way
too small to be a Lycoming serial number.
Is that what they are asking for? Who is deemed to be the engine maker,
Lycoming or Aerosport? I'm not aware of a Lycoming serial number anywhere
on the engine, though I easily could have missed it. I didn't think to
check the engine log book which is at the hangar.
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, doing the paper work.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | engine serial number? |
The engine Data plate can only be installed by the engine manufacturer.
If the data plate says Aerosport=2C it is not a Lycoming. It is an Aerospor
t Experimental Engine.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell=2C
2=2C377+ Flying Hours So. CA=2C USA
Date: Sun=2C 6 Jun 2010 21:28:14 -0700
Subject: RV-List: engine serial number?
From: sarg314(at)gmail.com
I am filling out the forms to request an airworthiness inspection. Form 81
30-12 asks for the engine model and serial number. Mine is an Aerosport Po
wer rebuild. The Aerosport power data plate on the engine shows the serial
number as 0240=2C which in retrospect (after I got back home) seems way to
o small to be a Lycoming serial number.
Is that what they are asking for? Who is deemed to be the engine maker=2C
Lycoming or Aerosport? I'm not aware of a Lycoming serial number anywhere
on the engine=2C though I easily could have missed it. I didn't think to c
heck the engine log book which is at the hangar.
--
Tom Sargent=2C RV-6A=2C doing the paper work.
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with H
otmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=
PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: engine serial number? |
My O-360 was rebuilt by Aerosport Power in 1998 and has the original
Lycoming data plate with serial number. When I had my airworthiness
inspection done by the FAA in 2004, the guy refuse to recognize it as a
Lycoming because he said "Aerosport Power builds engines for
Experimental aircraft". He required 40 hours Phase I instead of 25 hours
I anticipated. (I also had a matched Hartzell CS prop purchased new from
Van's)
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: RV6 Flyer
To: RV List
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 7:22 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: engine serial number?
The engine Data plate can only be installed by the engine
manufacturer.
If the data plate says Aerosport, it is not a Lycoming. It is an
Aerosport Experimental Engine.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
2,377+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 21:28:14 -0700
Subject: RV-List: engine serial number?
From: sarg314(at)gmail.com
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
I am filling out the forms to request an airworthiness inspection.
Form 8130-12 asks for the engine model and serial number.. Mine is an
Aerosport Power rebuild. The Aerosport power data plate on the engine
shows the serial number as 0240, which in retrospect (after I got back
home) seems way too small to be a Lycoming serial number.
Is that what they are asking for? Who is deemed to be the engine
maker, Lycoming or Aerosport? I'm not aware of a Lycoming serial number
anywhere on the engine, though I easily could have missed it. I didn't
think to check the engine log book which is at the hangar.
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, doing the paper work.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?R=========
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars
with Hotmail. Get busy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | engine serial number? |
| From: | "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com> |
If it was built from a kit, the OEM does not assign it a serial number.
Aerosport probably assigned it their own serial number. Give Sue a
call. She'll tell you what you need to know.
________________________________
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of thomas sargent
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 11:28 PM
Subject: RV-List: engine serial number?
I am filling out the forms to request an airworthiness inspection. Form
8130-12 asks for the engine model and serial number. Mine is an
Aerosport Power rebuild. The Aerosport power data plate on the engine
shows the serial number as 0240, which in retrospect (after I got back
home) seems way too small to be a Lycoming serial number.
Is that what they are asking for? Who is deemed to be the engine maker,
Lycoming or Aerosport? I'm not aware of a Lycoming serial number
anywhere on the engine, though I easily could have missed it. I didn't
think to check the engine log book which is at the hangar.
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, doing the paper work.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | RV-9 Empennage for sale |
EAA Chapter 35 has been donated a completed RV-9 empennage by a member
who lost his medical. The chapter would like to sell the assembly but
has been unable to find interested buyers through local advertising,
thus this notice.
The empennage is complete and includes horizontal and vertical tail,
rudder, elevators, and electric trim. The workmanship is excellent
according to Paul McReynolds, an RV guru and former Oshkosh Grand
Champion winner. Van's price for an unassembled RV-9 empennage kit is
$1660 plus shipping. Chapter 35 would like $700 for the completed
assembly. The assembly is located at San Geronimo airport (8T8) near
San Antonio, Texas. Point of contact is: Dave Baker, Chapter 35
president, at (210) 410-9235.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John J <n212pj(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV-9 Empennage for sale |
I'll take it.
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Brame
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 9:01 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV-9 Empennage for sale
EAA Chapter 35 has been donated a completed RV-9 empennage by a member who
lost his medical. The chapter would like to sell the assembly but has been
unable to find interested buyers through local advertising, thus this
notice.
The empennage is complete and includes horizontal and vertical tail, rudder,
elevators, and electric trim. The workmanship is excellent according to Paul
McReynolds, an RV guru and former Oshkosh Grand Champion winner. Van's price
for an unassembled RV-9 empennage kit is $1660 plus shipping. Chapter 35
would like $700 for the completed assembly. The assembly is located at San
Geronimo airport (8T8) near San Antonio, Texas. Point of contact is: Dave
Baker, Chapter 35 president, at (210) 410-9235.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
23:35:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N616TB <N616TB(at)btsapps.com> |
| Subject: | Pecan Plantation near Granbury Texas |
Does anybody know anything about a fly-in at the Pecan Plantation near Gran
bury Texas? I had heard there was a fly-in next weekend, but cannot seem t
o confirm this anywhere. Also, I was up there this last weekend and wanted
to look around but could not get past the security gate. I wondered if we
had anybody on the list who lives there.
Thanks
Tim
RV-6
N616TB
Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Hernandez <carlosh(at)structuralaz.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pecan Plantation near Granbury Texas |
here ya go.
http://www.vansairforce.net/delete_eventually/pecan2010.jpg
Carlos
N616TB wrote:
> *Does anybody know anything about a fly-in at the Pecan Plantation
> near Granbury Texas? I had heard there was a fly-in next weekend, but
> cannot seem to confirm this anywhere. Also, I was up there this last
> weekend and wanted to look around but could not get past the security
> gate. I wondered if we had anybody on the list who lives there.*
> *Thanks*
> *Tim*
> *RV-6*
> *N616TB*
> *Flying*
> *
>
>
> *
--
Carlos Hernandez <carlosh@sec-engr.com>
Structural Engineers Company
2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3
Chandler, AZ 85224
Phone: 480.968.8600
Fax: 480.968.8608
www.sec-engr.com
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged.
This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or
organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or
an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any review, dissemination or copyingof this email and
its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is
prohibited. If you havereceived this email in error, please
immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email
from your system.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pecan Plantation near Granbury Texas |
| From: | Marty Santic <marty.santic(at)gmail.com> |
See
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/calendar.php?do=getinfo&day 10-6-12&e=585&c=1
On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 3:48 PM, N616TB wrote:
> *Does anybody know anything about a fly-in at the Pecan Plantation near
> Granbury Texas? I had heard there was a fly-in next weekend, but cannot
> seem to confirm this anywhere. Also, I was up there this last weekend and
> wanted to look around but could not get past the security gate. I wondered
> if we had anybody on the list who lives there.*
> *Thanks*
> *Tim*
> *RV-6*
> *N616TB*
> *Flying*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Marty Santic ----- W9EAA
My RV-12 (Light Sport Aircraft) Build Log -
http://www.martysrv12.blogspot.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "don wentz" <dasduck(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Sweet Pics From Cross Country To Lake Tahoe Today... |
Great pics Matt!
Only time we ever went to Tahoe we were fighting 60mph headwinds on the way
back west and rough as heck at 12.5
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 9:11 PM
Subject: RV-List: Sweet Pics From Cross Country To Lake Tahoe Today...
Dear Listers,
The second major cross country post-Phase 1 this weekend took us to South
Lake Tahoe in our continuing "Quest For A $100 Hamburger"... The weather
was unbelievable today. Simply amazing! We ran into Marc Ausman of
Vertical Power fame http://www.verticalpower.com as we were fueling up for
our trip home. Marc has another sweet Lycoming IO-390 powered RV.
After lunch, we took a flight over Reno at about 11000ft.
Who knew this RV-8 was going to be such a fun vehicle of journey! :-)
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Capani <peter.capani(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Pecan Plantation near Granbury Texas |
I don't live in Pecan Plantation but I'm a member of that local EAA chapter.
It will be a wonderful fly-in and I understand that Van's Air Force will
attend. Should be well worth the trip by land or air.
--Pete Capani
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N616TB
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 3:49 PM
Subject: RV-List: Pecan Plantation near Granbury Texas
Does anybody know anything about a fly-in at the Pecan Plantation near
Granbury Texas? I had heard there was a fly-in next weekend, but cannot
seem to confirm this anywhere. Also, I was up there this last weekend and
wanted to look around but could not get past the security gate. I wondered
if we had anybody on the list who lives there.
Thanks
Tim
RV-6
N616TB
Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Sweet Pics From Cross Country To Lake Tahoe Today... |
Thanks! At one point we were seeing 40mph headwinds. The trip up and around the
lake in the morning was smooth. In the afternoon, however, it was pretty darn
rough over the lake and over Reno. Still, the view was worth it! I wonder
what its like in the middle of the Summer...?
Matt
At 04:35 PM 6/7/2010 Monday, you wrote:
>
>Great pics Matt!
>Only time we ever went to Tahoe we were fighting 60mph headwinds on the way
>back west and rough as heck at 12.5
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
>Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 9:11 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; rv8-list(at)matronics.com; rv7-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Sweet Pics From Cross Country To Lake Tahoe Today...
>
>Dear Listers,
>
>The second major cross country post-Phase 1 this weekend took us to South
>Lake Tahoe in our continuing "Quest For A $100 Hamburger"... The weather
>was unbelievable today. Simply amazing! We ran into Marc Ausman of
>Vertical Power fame http://www.verticalpower.com as we were fueling up for
>our trip home. Marc has another sweet Lycoming IO-390 powered RV.
>
>After lunch, we took a flight over Reno at about 11000ft.
>
>Who knew this RV-8 was going to be such a fun vehicle of journey! :-)
>
>
>Matt Dralle
>RV-8 #82880 N998RV
>http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
>http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
>Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor...
>
>
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Sweet Pics From Cross Country To Lake Tahoe |
We were in Lake Tahoe last year with the EAA B- 17 'Aluminum Overcast' and
it was very rough flying over and around the lake. Even in the big bird.
Probably the roughest flights I have ever had. Would love to return with my
wife in my 6A sometime. Is it any better around the time of the Reno Races?
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 8:17 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Sweet Pics From Cross Country To Lake Tahoe Today...
>
> Thanks! At one point we were seeing 40mph headwinds. The trip up and
> around the lake in the morning was smooth. In the afternoon, however, it
> was pretty darn rough over the lake and over Reno. Still, the view was
> worth it! I wonder what its like in the middle of the Summer...?
>
> Matt
>
>
> At 04:35 PM 6/7/2010 Monday, you wrote:
>>Great pics Matt!
>>Only time we ever went to Tahoe we were fighting 60mph headwinds on the
>>way
>>back west and rough as heck at 12.5
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
>>Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 9:11 PM
>>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; rv8-list(at)matronics.com; rv7-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: RV-List: Sweet Pics From Cross Country To Lake Tahoe Today...
>>
>>Dear Listers,
>>
>>The second major cross country post-Phase 1 this weekend took us to South
>>Lake Tahoe in our continuing "Quest For A $100 Hamburger"... The weather
>>was unbelievable today. Simply amazing! We ran into Marc Ausman of
>>Vertical Power fame http://www.verticalpower.com as we were fueling up
>>for
>>our trip home. Marc has another sweet Lycoming IO-390 powered RV.
>>
>>After lunch, we took a flight over Reno at about 11000ft.
>>
>>Who knew this RV-8 was going to be such a fun vehicle of journey! :-)
>>
>>
>>Matt Dralle
>>RV-8 #82880 N998RV
>>http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
>>http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
>>Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor...
>>
>>
>
>
> Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Dean <billoves2fly(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: some approx V speeds |
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "HCRV6(at)comcast.net"
=0ATo: rv-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Sun, June 6, 2010
3:23:32 PM=0ASubject: Re: RV-List: some approx V speeds=0A=0A=0AEd,=0A=0ATh
anks for that.=C2- Without giving it much thought (make that any thought)
my reaction was, what does it matter what kind of prop?=C2- Obviously it
does as soon as one recognizes the effect of airspeed/RPM on HP with the f
ixed pitch props.=0A=0AMy experience is consistent with your observation, a
t 120 MPH my Catto prop allows me to climb with any of my buddies with CS p
rops.=C2- They always get a bit of a jump on me at takeoff but as soon as
I accelerate to 120 to 130 I can catch up.=0A=0AHarry Crosby=0ARV-6 N16CX,
695 hours=0A=0A----- Original Message -----=0AFrom: "Ed Anderson" <eanders
on(at)carolina.rr.com>=0ATo: rv-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, June 4, 201
0 4:41:21 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific=0ASubject: RE: RV-List: some appr
ox V speeds=0A=0A=0AHarry,=0A=C2-=0AWhen I first did my airspeed checks w
ith my fixed pitch prop RV-6A, I couldn=99t get anywhere near the per
formance/airspeed figures that Van quoted.=C2- It turns out his figures a
re for engines with a constant speed prop.=0A=C2-=0AMy best climb speed V
y turns out to be 120 MPH IAS, considerably higher than the Van=99s f
igure.=0A=C2-=0AI=99m sure there is someone out there that can give
you a more understandable explanation =93 but it goes something like
this.=0A=C2-=0AHere is how I see it =93 with a constant speed prop
, you can get more HP at slow airspeeds by making the pitch finer producing
less load on the engine, which results in more RPM which results in more H
P.=C2- When you are discussing climb it=99s the EXTRA HP above that
required to maintain level flight than causes you to climb.=C2- If you c
an increase your HP above that necessary for level flight, =C2-you can in
crease your climb rate at any airspeed (well, just about)..=0A=C2-=0AWith
a fixed pitch prop, you have the maximum load on the prop and therefore th
e engine at slower airspeeds during climb-out, that keeps the rpm lower =C2
-and therefore HP down compared to a constant speed prop.=C2- Therefore
, in order to get more climb you need to produce more HP, with a fixed pitc
h prop you do that by flying a higher airspeed unloading the prop and engin
e a bit thereby permitting more rpm and HP and higher climb rate.=0A=C2-
=0AEd=0A=C2-=0AEd Anderson=0ARv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered=0AMatthews, NC
=0Aeanderson@carolina.rr.com=0Ahttp://www.andersonee.com=0Ahttp://www.dmack
.net/mazda/index.html=0Ahttp://www.flyrotary.com/=0Ahttp://members.cox.net/
rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW=0Ahttp://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhea
d%20Truth.htm=0A=0A________________________________=0A=0AFrom:owner-rv-list
-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf
Of HCRV6(at)comcast.net=0ASent: Friday, June 04, 2010 4:09 PM=0ATo: rv-list@m
atronics.com=0ASubject: Re: RV-List: some approx V speeds=0A=C2-=0APlease
explain:=0A=0AWhether you have=C2-fixed pitch or constant speed prop mak
es a difference.=0A=0AHarry Crosby=0ARV-6 N16CX, 693 hours=0A=0A=0A=C2-
=0A=C2-=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List=0Ahttp://forums.matr
onics.com=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A=C2-=0A=0A=0At="_bl
ank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List=0Atp://forums.matronics.com
=========0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Replacing Fuel Level Senders... |
Dear Listers,
Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton capacitance fuel
level probes with the standard S&W float probea from Van's. Has anyone replaced
these without removing the wing or the fuel tank from the airplane? Basically
just doing it from underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by the
fuselage-to-wing fairing? Is this even possible?
I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units without destroying
them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I can do it without pulling
the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might just tackle this sooner than later.
But if the tanks have to come off, then I might procrastinate more and enjoy
the great flying weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in either August
or October and it has to be complete before then either way.
Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much do you have
to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating.
So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for the S&W float
arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these units so its a one-shot deal.
I've already pulled the probes out once, I definitely don't want to do this
again!
Thanks for the insight...
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... |
Matt-
I'm going to go on record as recommending you drain and remove the tanks to
do this job. If you can do it thru the wing fairing gap you are a better
man than I.
N1GV (RV-6A Flying 944TTAE Silicon Valley, CA)
"I know what you're thinking, punk," hissed Wordy Harry to his new editor,
"you're thinking, 'Did he use six superfluous adjectives or only five?' -
and to tell the truth, I forgot myself in all this excitement; but being as
this is English, the most powerful language in the world, whose subtle
nuances will blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one
question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' - well do you, punk?"
In a message dated 6/8/2010 9:01:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
dralle(at)matronics.com writes:
Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton capacitance
fuel level probes with the standard S&W float probea from Van's. Has
anyone replaced these without removing the wing or the fuel tank from the
airplane? Basically just doing it from underneath the airplane through the gap
afforded by the fuselage-to-wing fairing? Is this even possible?
I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units without
destroying them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I can do it without
pulling the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might just tackle this sooner
than later. But if the tanks have to come off, then I might procrastinate
more and enjoy the great flying weather. That being said, I'm going in for
paint in either August or October and it has to be complete before then
either way.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... |
I've pulled a sender out of the gap without removing the tank. I had a
float that seemed to be stuck - ended up being a glob of fuel-lube. Put
it back together - works fine.....
Ralph
RV6A N822AR @ N06 68 hrs....
----- Original Message -----
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 2:40 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Replacing Fuel Level Senders...
Matt-
I'm going to go on record as recommending you drain and remove the
tanks to do this job. If you can do it thru the wing fairing gap you
are a better man than I.
N1GV (RV-6A Flying 944TTAE Silicon Valley, CA)
"I know what you're thinking, punk," hissed Wordy Harry to his new
editor, "you're thinking, 'Did he use six superfluous adjectives or only
five?' - and to tell the truth, I forgot myself in all this excitement;
but being as this is English, the most powerful language in the world,
whose subtle nuances will blow your head clean off, you've got to ask
yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' - well do you, punk?"
In a message dated 6/8/2010 9:01:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
dralle(at)matronics.com writes:
Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton
capacitance fuel level probes with the standard S&W float probea from
Van's. Has anyone replaced these without removing the wing or the fuel
tank from the airplane? Basically just doing it from underneath the
airplane through the gap afforded by the fuselage-to-wing fairing? Is
this even possible?
I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units
without destroying them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I can
do it without pulling the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might just
tackle this sooner than later. But if the tanks have to come off, then
I might procrastinate more and enjoy the great flying weather. That
being said, I'm going in for paint in either August or October and it
has to be complete before then either way.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... |
It ain't easy, but can be done. If you put the plate on with phillips
head screws, the trick is using an acme bit and some sort of ratcheting
right angle driver. Got to get a lot of pressure onto the screw head or
you're screwed. ;-( I used allen head socket screws and it makes life
easier. That's just to get the plate off. Getting the old sender out and
the new sender in through the small gap in the wing root may well be
beyond difficult. Since you're not yet painted, why not pull the tanks?
You could run one dry at altitude, land on the other one, pull the tank
and do the work and then do the same with the other side. I found that,
when I ran my tanks dry (one per flight, please), I had very little fuel
left in the tank. I ran until the fuel pressure dropped off, turned on
the pump and ran 'til the engine quit. Took about five or six seconds to
restart after switching tanks. This was with a carbureted engine. Not
sure how quick it'd come back with injection, but shouldn't be a problem.
Be careful and good luck,
Ed Holyoke
Matt Dralle wrote:
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton capacitance fuel
level probes with the standard S&W float probea from Van's. Has anyone replaced
these without removing the wing or the fuel tank from the airplane? Basically
just doing it from underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by the
fuselage-to-wing fairing? Is this even possible?
>
> I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units without destroying
them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I can do it without pulling
the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might just tackle this sooner than later.
But if the tanks have to come off, then I might procrastinate more and enjoy
the great flying weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in either
August or October and it has to be complete before then either way.
>
> Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much do you have
to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating.
>
> So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for the S&W float
arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these units so its a one-shot
deal. I've already pulled the probes out once, I definitely don't want to do
this again!
>
> Thanks for the insight...
>
>
> Matt Dralle
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor!
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... |
I installed with bolt-head screws which allowed me to use a ratchet and socket.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
>Sent: Jun 9, 2010 3:17 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Replacing Fuel Level Senders...
>
>
>It ain't easy, but can be done. If you put the plate on with phillips
>head screws, the trick is using an acme bit and some sort of ratcheting
>right angle driver. Got to get a lot of pressure onto the screw head or
>you're screwed. ;-( I used allen head socket screws and it makes life
>easier. That's just to get the plate off. Getting the old sender out and
>the new sender in through the small gap in the wing root may well be
>beyond difficult. Since you're not yet painted, why not pull the tanks?
>You could run one dry at altitude, land on the other one, pull the tank
>and do the work and then do the same with the other side. I found that,
>when I ran my tanks dry (one per flight, please), I had very little fuel
>left in the tank. I ran until the fuel pressure dropped off, turned on
>the pump and ran 'til the engine quit. Took about five or six seconds to
>restart after switching tanks. This was with a carbureted engine. Not
>sure how quick it'd come back with injection, but shouldn't be a problem.
>
>Be careful and good luck,
>
>Ed Holyoke
>
>Matt Dralle wrote:
>>
>> Dear Listers,
>>
>> Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton capacitance fuel
level probes with the standard S&W float probea from Van's. Has anyone replaced
these without removing the wing or the fuel tank from the airplane? Basically
just doing it from underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by
the fuselage-to-wing fairing? Is this even possible?
>>
>> I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units without destroying
them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I can do it without pulling
the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might just tackle this sooner than later.
But if the tanks have to come off, then I might procrastinate more and enjoy
the great flying weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in either
August or October and it has to be complete before then either way.
>>
>> Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much do you
have to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating.
>>
>> So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for the S&W float
arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these units so its a one-shot
deal. I've already pulled the probes out once, I definitely don't want to do
this again!
>>
>> Thanks for the insight...
>>
>>
>> Matt Dralle
>> RV-8 #82880 N998RV
>> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
>> Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Replacing Fuel Level Senders |
Hate to tell you this Matt:
But I installed the inexpensive Van's capacitive sensors when I built my
tanks and later bought the not-so-inexpensive EI gauge that goes with them.
Another of the Van's solutions that works great. Unfortunately you won't be
able to install the sensors in your finished tanks without some major
surgery (I wouldn't). Taking the tanks off to install the float type sender
is easiest way and shouldn't take but a weekend to do. Been there done that
(to repair an accessable leak) earlier in Delta Mikes flying career.
Definately want to bite the bullet before you paint. I know how you feel
though, spent one of my recent weekends fiddling with my EzPilot trying to
get everything working so "George" can fly once in a while when I look at
charts. It's been a year and a half since the airplane first flew and I
really didn't want to spend my weekend wrenching on the plane but...it was
worth it in the end. Regards
Dean N197DM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe & Jan Connell" <jconnell(at)fmwildblue.com> |
| Subject: | RV-9A Main Gear foot print... |
Guys,
I've been building an RV-9A in the basement for a number of years - time
to take it to the airport.
I've raised the RV with an engine hoist, removed the main gear, and
placed the fuselage in a wheeled cradle to get it through the basement
door.
I forgot to measure the width of the main gear before I did this. I
need the info to determine the width of the trailer to transport it to
the airport.
Can anyone give me the measurement - I'm guessing about 8 ft. (My old
age is catching up with me...)
Joe Connell
Stewartville, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bret Smith" <smithhb(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9A Main Gear foot print... |
You will need an 8" trailer. I hired a wrecker lowboy.
Bret Smith
RV-9A N16BL
Blue Ridge, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe & Jan Connell
To: RV-List
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 12:56 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-9A Main Gear foot print...
Guys,
I've been building an RV-9A in the basement for a number of years -
time to take it to the airport.
I've raised the RV with an engine hoist, removed the main gear, and
placed the fuselage in a wheeled cradle to get it through the basement
door.
I forgot to measure the width of the main gear before I did this. I
need the info to determine the width of the trailer to transport it to
the airport.
Can anyone give me the measurement - I'm guessing about 8 ft. (My old
age is catching up with me...)
Joe Connell
Stewartville, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV-9A Main Gear foot print... |
Its actually closer to seven feet wide. Fits very nice onto a car hauler t
railer.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
From: jconnell(at)fmwildblue.com
Subject: RV-List: RV-9A Main Gear foot print...
Date: Thu=2C 10 Jun 2010 11:56:43 -0500
Guys=2C
I've been building an RV-9A in the basement for a number of years - time to
take it to the airport.
I've raised the RV with an engine hoist=2C removed the main gear=2C and pla
ced the fuselage in a wheeled cradle to get it through the basement door.
I forgot to measure the width of the main gear before I did this. I need t
he info to determine the width of the trailer to transport it to the airpor
t.
Can anyone give me the measurement - I'm guessing about 8 ft. (My old age
is catching up with me...)
Joe Connell
Stewartville=2C MN
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with H
otmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=
PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders |
| From: | fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
If you have the Princeton probes that bend around just inside the tank (in
-up-over&down) they can be replaced without a tankcision.? I've done this
3 times before giving up on them on a -7A and installing the floats from
Van.? You will have to bend them a bit to get them out, but with the righ
t combination of wiggling/twisting etc. they will come out.? Adding the fl
oats is pretty simple- bend the float arms per instructions, paying close
attention to R/L, then set them up on a bench to simulate the tank for ad
justment before installing.? Mount the sender perpendicular to the bench
on some kind of support at the same height as?it would be in the tank wit
h the float resting on the bench, and note the float travel distance by me
asuring from top to bottom on the tank where the sender installs (7-8"?),
then adjust the arm to get the correct resistance readings for that trave
l.? Make sure the float will miss the stiffener on the tank bottom so it
won't hang up and will get full travel- you can note the location of the
stiffener by the rivet line on the tank- check with a dental mirror to se
e which way the stiffener flange faces.
?
Just another fun day at the hangar!
?
Mark Phillips - RV-6A "Mojo", almost 600 hrs, floats recently replaced...
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/
-----Original Message-----
From: DEAN PSIROPOULOS <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Wed, Jun 9, 2010 8:22 pm
Subject: RV-List: Replacing Fuel Level Senders
--> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@
verizon.net>
Hate to tell you this Matt:
But I installed the inexpensive Van's capacitive sensors when I built my
tanks and later bought the not-so-inexpensive EI gauge that goes with them
.
Another of the Van's solutions that works great. Unfortunately you won't
be
able to install the sensors in your finished tanks without some major
surgery (I wouldn't). Taking the tanks off to install the float type send
er
is easiest way and shouldn't take but a weekend to do. Been there done th
at
(to repair an accessable leak) earlier in Delta Mikes flying career.
Definately want to bite the bullet before you paint. I know how you feel
though, spent one of my recent weekends fiddling with my EzPilot trying to
get everything working so "George" can fly once in a while when I look at
charts. It's been a year and a half since the airplane first flew and I
really didn't want to spend my weekend wrenching on the plane but...it was
worth it in the end. Regards
Dean N197DM
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-9A Main Gear Footprint |
| From: | Ian <ixb(at)videotron.ca> |
Joe,
This was recent enough in my experience that I can tell you that if you
use a panel truck that is 8' wide you will need to wiggle the wheels
past the door frame one at a time to get it in. I think I even had to
remove the AN4 bolts that I'd had installed to get it to fit. I think,
with the weight of the engine pushing the mains out it's going to
around 7'10 to the outside of the structure of the wheels.
Good luck. Ian Brown C-GOHM 55hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | A must read for / Single Electronic Mag Users |
| From: | "sc_acro2" <mail(at)g3ignition.com> |
G3i will in KOSH again this year in hanger A booth #1148 demonstrating and releasing
the new Series-SC (Single Channel) which focuses on curing the issues of
the off-set ignition timing events with the EI and magneto systems. The G3i
SC module reads the variable/ advance-timing signal from the existing aftermarket
electronic mag. The SC tracks it, and timing it in perfect synchronization
to fire the magneto at the same timing event as the electronic mag. With a
multiple spark technology. Dual EIs and keeping your existing single magneto
as an added redundancy.
Thomas S.
www.g3ignition.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300952#300952
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | XM weather updates |
Guys,
I've finally started the Phase I of my RV-6A, after a 12.5 year build.
Thanks to many for there help over the years.
I'm having a bit of an issue with the weather updates to my Garmin 496.
Garmin advised me to update the software to version 4.2 which I've done but
it didn't help. Researching the posts on this list suggests that others
have noticed long delays in updates to their units, but I didn't see where
there was a solution given. Did anyone who had long updates, and I mean
things like Nexrad being over an hour old, find a fix for this?
Marty in Brentwood TN N826ME finally an airplane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: XM weather updates |
| From: | John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com> |
Call XM. When that happened to me, they reset things and all was well.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Koziol <biovail2001(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9A Main Gear foot print... |
Hi Joe.- I moved my RV from my home to the airport last summer for final
assembly and used a car carrier tow truck.- With the weight of the aircra
ft bearing down on the main wheels, it will cause the main gear legs to spr
ead a bit.- So, in order to pull the plane up onto the sloped deck of the
car carrier, you will need to wrap a-cargo strap around the main gear le
gs and then place-2x4's along the side rails.- The reason for this is t
hat usually the edge of the rails are angled outward and the 2x4's raise th
e wheels up enough so the tires clear the edge ever so tightly.- Once up
on the truck, strap her-in and off to the airport you go.
-
Hope this is helpful.
-
Steve Koziol
N424JK- 70 hours of flying fun.-
--- On Thu, 6/10/10, Joe & Jan Connell wrote:
From: Joe & Jan Connell <jconnell(at)fmwildblue.com>
Subject: RV-List: RV-9A Main Gear foot print...
Date: Thursday, June 10, 2010, 12:56 PM
Guys,
-
I've been building an RV-9A in the basement for a number of years - time to
take it to the airport.
-
I've raised the RV with an engine hoist, removed the main gear, and placed
the fuselage in a wheeled cradle to get it through the basement door.
-
I forgot to measure the width of the main gear before I did this.- I need
the info to determine the width of the trailer to transport it to the airp
ort.
-
Can anyone give me the measurement - I'm guessing about 8 ft.- (My old ag
e is catching up with me...)
-
Joe Connell
Stewartville, MN
-
-
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
Does any one know a source for fuel filler placards that say "100LL only" ?
I got a couple from aircraft spruce and they are much bigger than they need
to be. It's the circular, doughnut-shaped type of placard. The placard is
6" in diameter - you could read it from 20 feet away. I've looked for
something smaller, but haven't come up with anything yet. I thought Vans
would sell something appropriate, but if they do, I can't find it in the
on-line catalog.
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, trying to schedule the airworthiness inspection.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
Most people get the fuel cap engraved.
Here is one place that does it: http://www.rvengraving.com/
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (540 hrs)
RV-10 (systems install)
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of thomas sargent
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 7:25 PM
Subject: RV-List: fuel placards
Does any one know a source for fuel filler placards that say "100LL
only" ?=C2
I got a couple from aircraft spruce and they are much bigger than they
need
to be.=C2 It's the circular, doughnut-shaped type of placard.=C2 The
placard
is 6" in diameter - you could read it from 20 feet away.=C2 I've looked
for
something smaller, but haven't come up with anything yet.=C2 I thought
Vans
would sell something appropriate, but if they do, I can't find it in the
on-line catalog.
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, trying to schedule the airworthiness inspection.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)newwavecomm.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel placards |
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/fuelplacards.php
http://www.rvengraving.com/
Local vinyl lettering shop can make one up cheap and quick
----
Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site:
http://home.newwavecomm.net/bobbyhester/RVSite.htm
thomas sargent wrote:
> Does any one know a source for fuel filler placards that say "100LL
> only" ? I got a couple from aircraft spruce and they are much bigger
> than they need to be. It's the circular, doughnut-shaped type of
> placard. The placard is 6" in diameter - you could read it from 20
> feet away. I've looked for something smaller, but haven't come up
> with anything yet. I thought Vans would sell something appropriate,
> but if they do, I can't find it in the on-line catalog.
>
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A, trying to schedule the airworthiness inspection.
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel placards |
| From: | Dan Bergeron <dan.pat.b(at)gmail.com> |
TOM:
IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY I GOT SOME REAL SMALL LABELS AS PART OF AN EAA
EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT CERTIFICATION PAPERWORK PACKET. THERE WERE ALL KINDS
OF INSTRUMENT PANEL LABELS AND SOME SMALL RECTANGULAR FUEL TANK "100 LL"
LABELS. I EVENTUALLY HADE MY FILLER CAPS ENGRAVED WITH "100 LL - 21 GALS."
INCIDENTALLY - THE FILLER CAP TENSION IS ADJUSTABLE. BE CAREFUL HOW MUCH
TENSION YOU CRANK INTO THEM - TOO MUCH AND YOU'LL SNAP THE PINS - THEY'RE
ROLLED AND NOT SOLID. IF YOU SNAP THEM THEY'RE EASILY REPLACED WITH CUT
DOWN SHANKS FROM 1/16" DRILL BITS.
DAN BERGERON
RV-7A - N307TB
149 HOURS SINCE
FIRST FLIGHT ON 08/04/09
On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 7:25 PM, thomas sargent wrote:
> Does any one know a source for fuel filler placards that say "100LL only"
> ? I got a couple from aircraft spruce and they are much bigger than they
> need to be. It's the circular, doughnut-shaped type of placard. The
> placard is 6" in diameter - you could read it from 20 feet away. I've
> looked for something smaller, but haven't come up with anything yet. I
> thought Vans would sell something appropriate, but if they do, I can't find
> it in the on-line catalog.
>
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A, trying to schedule the airworthiness inspection.
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
I had mine engraved WITHOUT my N number. IF they fall off in flight and hi
t someone=2C it will not be traceable back to me.
Others had good answers.
Brother Label makers make good labels that meet the FAA requirement=2C they
last a long time plus are cheap to replace.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell=2C
2=2C377+ Flying Hours So. CA=2C USA
Date: Sat=2C 12 Jun 2010 16:25:20 -0700
Subject: RV-List: fuel placards
From: sarg314(at)gmail.com
Does any one know a source for fuel filler placards that say "100LL only" ?
I got a couple from aircraft spruce and they are much bigger than they ne
ed to be. It's the circular=2C doughnut-shaped type of placard. The placa
rd is 6" in diameter - you could read it from 20 feet away. I've looked fo
r something smaller=2C but haven't come up with anything yet. I thought Va
ns would sell something appropriate=2C but if they do=2C I can't find it in
the on-line catalog.
--
Tom Sargent=2C RV-6A=2C trying to schedule the airworthiness inspection.
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inb
ox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O
N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | MT prop paint problem? |
| From: | Randy Garrett <rgarrett7(at)gmail.com> |
About a year ago, I had my MT prop overhauled. Amazingly, it had been
6 years. The prop life is time-limited, I believe because grease
gradually seeps out and there are no grease fittings to replace it.
Grease certainly has come out of my prop and sure enough some of the
internal bearings were wearing and had to be replaced.
Now for the problem ... the paint keeps coming off. I have had the
prop repainted 3 times and it needs a fourth. Each time the prop has
to be pulled and shipped to the repair facility, resulting in 2 weeks
or more downtime. This is far more practice than I wanted in removing
and re-installing the prop!
As best I can tell, flying through (very light) rain is what does it.
The paint seems fine for a few months until I do a little IFR, then
the paint on the tips are eroded. It looks hideous and I wonder if it
does anything to the balance, though I can't detect any difference.
Has anyone else had similar issues?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
| Subject: | vinyl letters for fuel type and quantity |
>>>>SNIP Does any one know a source for fuel filler placards that say "100LL only"
?<<<<| Subject: | Re: MT prop paint problem? |
| From: | David Maib <dmaib(at)me.com> |
I just took my prop over to MT USA in Deland, FL to get it repainted after 235
hours and a year and a half flying. Flying in rain is the culprit and is pretty
well known in the MT community. My prop is black with yellow tips, so the grey
primer shows up pretty clearly and your observation that it looks hideous is
correct. I flew it over to Deland a few months ago and had them look at it to
make sure the problem was only cosmetic. Juergen, at MT, confirmed this for
me. He suggested that I paint the prop grey so the erosion won't looks so bad!!!!!!!
Not my idea of a fix, but I think he was serious! Anyway, I love everything else
about the prop but I will avoid rain as much as possible and just live with
it. I am a 30 minute drive to Deland, so at least I don't have such a long turnaround
time.
David Maib
RV-10 N380DM
On Jun 13, 2010, at 12:33 AM, Randy Garrett wrote:
>
> About a year ago, I had my MT prop overhauled. Amazingly, it had been
> 6 years. The prop life is time-limited, I believe because grease
> gradually seeps out and there are no grease fittings to replace it.
> Grease certainly has come out of my prop and sure enough some of the
> internal bearings were wearing and had to be replaced.
>
> Now for the problem ... the paint keeps coming off. I have had the
> prop repainted 3 times and it needs a fourth. Each time the prop has
> to be pulled and shipped to the repair facility, resulting in 2 weeks
> or more downtime. This is far more practice than I wanted in removing
> and re-installing the prop!
>
> As best I can tell, flying through (very light) rain is what does it.
> The paint seems fine for a few months until I do a little IFR, then
> the paint on the tips are eroded. It looks hideous and I wonder if it
> does anything to the balance, though I can't detect any difference.
>
> Has anyone else had similar issues?
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fly from your home! Tennessee home with airstrip for sale! |
| From: | "Ratherfly" <longmeadowfarm(at)aol.com> |
http://longmeadow.vflyer.com/home/flyer/home/3291623
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301136#301136
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net> |
Listers,
I notice my VSI doesn't indicate a "0" VSI when I'm in level flight. Is
there an adjustment that can be made to "zero the needle"?
Marty N826ME
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Wright <tomw(at)charterops.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VSI Adjustment |
Most vsi's have a "zero" screw that you can adjust located on the face.
On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 5:41 PM, emrath wrote:
>
> Listers,
> I notice my VSI doesn't indicate a "0" VSI when I'm in level flight. Is
> there an adjustment that can be made to "zero the needle"?
>
> Marty N826ME
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Special Nuts In Cylinders... |
| From: | "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
What are those special little nuts called that insert into the bottom of
the Lycoming cylinder so that you can hold the baffling on? I think four
of them came in my Van's FWF kit. I noticed this weekend that one of them
had the screw come out and the nut insert fell to earth somewhere, no
doubt.
A part number would be great!
--
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
44 Hours since May 02 2010 and enjoying every minute of it!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <wstucklen1(at)cox.net> |
Hi All,
I'm in Kalispell MT for the next couple of days, and have some free time. Is
there anybody in this area that needs some electrical or mechanical help? I've
built three RV-s, and helped several other builders with electrical and mechanical
solutions for their planes. The weather looks like it's about to take a
turn for the worst, so I won't be flying in the area, so will be free Tues &
Wed. Thursday morning I leave for Canada and then Fairbanks.....
Fred Stucklen
RV-7A N924RV 385 Hrs (Flying)
RV-6A N926RV 875 Hrs (sold)
RV-6A N925RV 2008 Hrs (Sold)
Email: wstucklen1(at)cox.net
8Cell: 60-490-3933
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Rowbotham <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi Fred=2C
Glad to hear your trip is going well.
Have a great and safe trip!
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A (sold)
> Date: Tue=2C 15 Jun 2010 00:44:53 -0400
> From: wstucklen1(at)cox.net
> To: RV-List(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Kalispell MT
>
>
> Hi All=2C
>
> I'm in Kalispell MT for the next couple of days=2C and have some free tim
e. Is there anybody in this area that needs some electrical or mechanical h
elp? I've built three RV-s=2C and helped several other builders with electr
ical and mechanical solutions for their planes. The weather looks like it's
about to take a turn for the worst=2C so I won't be flying in the area=2C
so will be free Tues & Wed. Thursday morning I leave for Canada and then Fa
irbanks.....
>
> Fred Stucklen
> RV-7A N924RV 385 Hrs (Flying)
> RV-6A N926RV 875 Hrs (sold)
> RV-6A N925RV 2008 Hrs (Sold)
>
> Email: wstucklen1(at)cox.net
> 8Cell: 60-490-3933
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with H
otmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=
PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Paint flaking off in countersunk holes |
| From: | Ian <ixb(at)videotron.ca> |
I recently removed a tank and was dismayed to see rusting screws and the
paint coming off around the holes. I guess I can use stainless screws
instead of the regular ones to avoid the rusting, but does anyone have a
solution to the paint coming off? I think the bond with the
alumin(i)um is broken as I tighten the screws but doesn't become really
visible until I unscrew them. I had the aircraft professionally
painted but I'm guessing it's difficult to scuff up the countersinks.
While I'm on the subject of removing tanks, does anyone have a solution
to removing the second-to-most-inboard row of baffle bracket bolts
without losing major amounts of skin? I use a short (3") wrench but I
can only just get my hand in place. All 21 bolts are difficult to
remove but those three are the worst.
Ian Brown,
RV-9A C-GOHM, Bromont, Quebec
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry(at)mc.net> |
| Subject: | RV8A Building Question |
Dear Listers ...
I bought a partially complete kit. The building manual was not all there
and I'm, therefore, not sure which step to begin next. There are several
places where rivets are not installed (pending steps to take, in sequence
I'm sure).
I would like to learn from this vast group of builders:
What should I do to make sure I begin at the next step to keep the sequence
of steps in order? It wouldn't be smart to get to a place then find several
rivets need drilled-out to install something else.
I don't mind buying a new build manual if that's called for, or replacing
missing prints.
What would you gents do in this case?
Many thank for your answers ...
Jerry
jerry(at)mc.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint flaking off in countersunk holes |
I think there are two issues here ..... the painter may have just
painted over the screws instead of loosening them up to paint underneath
the heads. The second thing that should have been done is to place
nylon washers (aircraft spruce) under the screw heads when they were
tightened down, which would have saved most of the cracking paint when
the screws were removed. the washers also make it easier to remove the
screws.
Linn
Ian wrote:
> I recently removed a tank and was dismayed to see rusting screws and
> the paint coming off around the holes. I guess I can use stainless
> screws instead of the regular ones to avoid the rusting, but does
> anyone have a solution to the paint coming off? I think the bond
> with the alumin(i)um is broken as I tighten the screws but doesn't
> become really visible until I unscrew them. I had the aircraft
> professionally painted but I'm guessing it's difficult to scuff up the
> countersinks.
>
> While I'm on the subject of removing tanks, does anyone have a
> solution to removing the second-to-most-inboard row of baffle bracket
> bolts without losing major amounts of skin? I use a short (3") wrench
> but I can only just get my hand in place. All 21 bolts are difficult
> to remove but those three are the worst.
>
> Ian Brown,
> RV-9A C-GOHM, Bromont, Quebec
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Lee" <gene.lee(at)gte.net> |
Follow-up to let everyone know the final resolution in case someone else sees the
issue in the future.
Grease had worked its way up into the motor and was 'binding it up'. Even with
the motor completely detached from everything else,
it was drawing 2.5 amps just to start spinning. In fact, it drew so much current
that small wisps of smoke came out of it when I
applied power. Next time I won't ignore the problem when 7.5 amp fuses are periodically
blowing!
I found that Usher Precision (http://www.usherprecision.com/aircraft-parts.html) sells just the bare Pittman motor for $110. After
swapping the motor out I took it for some touch-n-goes and the problem looks like
it's gone.
Gene
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ian
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 6:20 PM
Subject: RV-List: Flap Fuse
How about disconnecting the pushrods and checking for resistance to movement by
moving each flap manually? Excessive current draw
suggests that the motor is struggling. You could divide the movement in two -
the motor to the push rods and the push rods to the
flaps. If you feel no resistance to movement on the flap side then maybe there's
some interference or tightness on the motor side.
Could anything be misaligned, interfering or overtightened in motor to pushrod
chain?
Ian Brown
"I have an RV-7a with 700 hours on her and a month ago the flap fuse ( 7.5amps
)
blew on two consecutive landings. The fuse has
never blown before in those 700 hours. I know I was well below the white arc,
10 to 15 knots below, on both of the landings.
After I changed the fuse on those two, it went almost a month without ever happening
again, then the fuse below twice more over the
course of a few landings.
It always blows on the downward movement, but the point at which it's blown varies
anywhere between just barely having moved and
being as much as 20 degrees when it happens."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paint flaking off in countersunk holes |
| From: | jhnstniii(at)aol.com |
Ian--We put tinnermans under the tank screws and it makes for a very tidy
look and no more paint worries.
LeRoy Johnston/David White RV-6A Esperanza 314 hrs Ohio
-----Original Message-----
From: Ian <ixb(at)videotron.ca>
Sent: Tue, Jun 15, 2010 12:40 pm
Subject: RV-List: Paint flaking off in countersunk holes
I recently removed a tank and was dismayed to see rusting screws and the
paint coming off around the holes. I guess I can use stainless screws in
stead of the regular ones to avoid the rusting, but does anyone have a sol
ution to the paint coming off? I think the bond with the alumin(i)um is
broken as I tighten the screws but doesn't become really visible until I
unscrew them. I had the aircraft professionally painted but I'm guessin
g it's difficult to scuff up the countersinks.
While I'm on the subject of removing tanks, does anyone have a solution to
removing the second-to-most-inboard row of baffle bracket bolts without
losing major amounts of skin? I use a short (3") wrench but I can only
just get my hand in place. All 21 bolts are difficult to remove but thos
e three are the worst.
Ian Brown,
RV-9A C-GOHM, Bromont, Quebec
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FBOs at KHEF Manassas Regional VA |
| From: | jhnstniii(at)aol.com |
Listers--Planning a trip this weekend to KHEF Manassas Regional in VA and
need overnight hangar. There are three FBOs:
Dulles Aviation
Chantilly Air
APP Jet Center
Any preferences?
Thanks.
LeRoy Johnston RV-6A Esperanza 314 hrs OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rveighta(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: RV8A Building Question |
Jerry, I built an RV-8A and an RV-8, both quickbuilds.=C2- My advice to y
ou is to go ahead and buy the manual
from Van's. You will need to do lots of reading & study to figure out where
the previous builder left off. Even
with the manual, it took quite a bit of study to determine where the quickb
uild part started.
Walt Shipley
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry(at)mc.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 3:41:36 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RV-List: RV8A Building Question
Dear Listers ...
I bought a partially complete kit. =C2-The building manual was not all th
ere
and I'm, therefore, not sure which step to begin next. =C2-There are seve
ral
places where rivets are not installed (pending steps to take, in sequence
I'm sure).
I would like to learn from this vast group of builders:
What should I do to make sure I begin at the next step to keep the sequence
of steps in order? =C2-It wouldn't be smart to get to a place then find s
everal
rivets need drilled-out to install something else.
I don't mind buying a new build manual if that's called for, or replacing
missing prints.
What would you gents do in this case?
Many thank for your answers ...
Jerry
jerry(at)mc.net
===========
===========
MS -
===========
e -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List: Active Notification of Low Voltage |
Bob, et. al.,
I'm one of the guilty ones with an electronic EFIS and no warning
light for a low voltage. In a low voltage situation, my EFIS voltmeter
does flash, but I have determined that isn't a sufficient warning.
Thus I would like to install a low voltage warning light. To
complicate matters: however, I have a generic Ford regulator that does
not have a low voltage warning circuit. Is there a simple solution for
this situation?
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
----------------------------------------------------------
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Active Notification of Low Voltage
At 05:06 PM 6/14/2010, you wrote:
> Many current OBAM aircraft have electronic EFIS and/or EIS systems
> installed in their panels. Most of these systems have the
> capability to monitor various engine and electrical
> parameters. Limits can be programmed so that when a parameter is
> outside of the set limits, this is enunciated via audio and/or
> visual notification (a warning light).
>
> Is the use of these EFIS/EIS systems adequate for proper stand alone
> "Active Notification of Low Voltage"? Or is it recommended that
> additional equipment be employed? This additional equipment would
> be such as AEC9005, AEC9024 (when available), or other such devices
> on the market.
Your choice. The operative word is "active".
If the nature of the warning provided as a
feature of a panel mounted accessory is sufficient
to get your attention within a minute of
onset of LV, then the design goals have been
met.
The B&C LR series regulators are shipped with
a rather obnoxious yellow warning light assembly
that is guaranteed to get your attention.
It's something you can experiment with in
flight. Shut the alternator off. Judge for
yourself if the resulting indication is sufficiently
attention getting.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List: Active Notification of Low Voltage |
Vans' carries one for $80. Pretty steep but looks elegant.
I have one similar which I got from electric Bob years ago for a lot
less, but don't think he is in that business any more.
On Jun 16, 2010, at 10:05 , Charles Brame wrote:
> Bob, et. al.,
>
> I'm one of the guilty ones with an electronic EFIS and no warning
> light for a low voltage. In a low voltage situation, my EFIS
> voltmeter does flash, but I have determined that isn't a sufficient
> warning. Thus I would like to install a low voltage warning light.
> To complicate matters: however, I have a generic Ford regulator that
> does not have a low voltage warning circuit. Is there a simple
> solution for this situation?
>
> Charlie Brame
> RV-6A N11CB
> San Antonio
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Active Notification of Low Voltage
>
> At 05:06 PM 6/14/2010, you wrote:
>> Many current OBAM aircraft have electronic EFIS and/or EIS systems
>> installed in their panels. Most of these systems have the
>> capability to monitor various engine and electrical
>> parameters. Limits can be programmed so that when a parameter is
>> outside of the set limits, this is enunciated via audio and/or
>> visual notification (a warning light).
>>
>> Is the use of these EFIS/EIS systems adequate for proper stand alone
>> "Active Notification of Low Voltage"? Or is it recommended that
>> additional equipment be employed? This additional equipment would
>> be such as AEC9005, AEC9024 (when available), or other such devices
>> on the market.
>
> Your choice. The operative word is "active".
> If the nature of the warning provided as a
> feature of a panel mounted accessory is sufficient
> to get your attention within a minute of
> onset of LV, then the design goals have been
> met.
>
> The B&C LR series regulators are shipped with
> a rather obnoxious yellow warning light assembly
> that is guaranteed to get your attention.
>
> It's something you can experiment with in
> flight. Shut the alternator off. Judge for
> yourself if the resulting indication is sufficiently
> attention getting.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List: Active Notification of Low Voltage |
| From: | Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
There is a nice one here:
http://www.periheliondesign.com/
<http://www.periheliondesign.com/>
--
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Denis Walsh wrote:
> Vans' carries one for $80. Pretty steep but looks elegant.
>
> I have one similar which I got from electric Bob years ago for a lot less,
> but don't think he is in that business any more.
> On Jun 16, 2010, at 10:05 , Charles Brame wrote:
>
> Bob, et. al.,
>
> I'm one of the guilty ones with an electronic EFIS and no warning light for
> a low voltage. In a low voltage situation, my EFIS voltmeter does flash, but
> I have determined that isn't a sufficient warning. Thus I would like to
> install a low voltage warning light. To complicate matters: however, I have
> a generic Ford regulator that does not have a low voltage warning circuit.
> Is there a simple solution for this situation?
>
> Charlie Brame
> RV-6A N11CB
> San Antonio
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Active Notification of Low Voltage
>
> At 05:06 PM 6/14/2010, you wrote:
>
> Many current OBAM aircraft have electronic EFIS and/or EIS systems
>
> installed in their panels. Most of these systems have the
>
> capability to monitor various engine and electrical
>
> parameters. Limits can be programmed so that when a parameter is
>
> outside of the set limits, this is enunciated via audio and/or
>
> visual notification (a warning light).
>
>
> Is the use of these EFIS/EIS systems adequate for proper stand alone
>
> "Active Notification of Low Voltage"? Or is it recommended that
>
> additional equipment be employed? This additional equipment would
>
> be such as AEC9005, AEC9024 (when available), or other such devices
>
> on the market.
>
>
> Your choice. The operative word is "active".
> If the nature of the warning provided as a
> feature of a panel mounted accessory is sufficient
> to get your attention within a minute of
> onset of LV, then the design goals have been
> met.
>
> The B&C LR series regulators are shipped with
> a rather obnoxious yellow warning light assembly
> that is guaranteed to get your attention.
>
> It's something you can experiment with in
> flight. Shut the alternator off. Judge for
> yourself if the resulting indication is sufficiently
> attention getting.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> |
| Subject: | Alternate way to Attach RV-8 Skirt to Canopy Frame Suggestion |
It is time for us to attach the skirt to the canopy frame where the plans
call for pop rivets. Is there a preferred or alternate choice to pop rivets
(we hope)? Something like epoxy that has been proven to work?
Thanks,
Robin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wade Roe" <wroe1(at)dbtech.net> |
| Subject: | Landing gear fairing install |
I need some recommendations as to the best way to elevate my completed RV7
fuselage so that I can align the gear leg fairings. The weight should be
around 600lb. Is there a better way than jack stands under the center
section and weighting the tail?
Thanks!
Wade Roe
RV7 in the final stretch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Rowbotham <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Alternate way to Attach RV-8 Skirt to Canopy Frame Suggestion |
Hi Robin=2C
We used the same adhensive that Christian Eagle uses on our 8A. The complet
e details with product info are in the archives. The RV was hangered in CT
and flown on a regular basis through out the year over nine years - No cra
cks and no change in the seal.
Hope this helps - Keep at it - it's really worth the effort!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A (Sold)
RV-9A (Dave's building)
From: robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Date: Thu=2C 17 Jun 2010 09:03:30 -0700
Subject: RV-List: Alternate way to Attach RV-8 Skirt to Canopy Frame Sugges
tion
It is time for us to attach the skirt to the canopy frame where the plans c
all for pop rivets. Is there a preferred or alternate choice to pop rivets
(we hope)? Something like epoxy that has been proven to work?
Thanks=2C
Robin
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inb
ox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O
N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear fairing install |
I used saw horses.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 17, 2010, at 1:02 PM, "Wade Roe" wrote:
> I need some recommendations as to the best way to elevate my
> completed RV7 fuselage so that I can align the gear leg fairings.
> The weight should be around 600lb. Is there a better way than jack
> stands under the center section and weighting the tail?
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Wade Roe
>
>
> RV7 in the final stretch
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wade Roe" <wroe1(at)dbtech.net> |
| Subject: | Landing gear fairing install |
How did you get the fuselage on the saw horses? Did you elevate the tail
then physically lift on side at a time and insert the horses?
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Kraus
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing gear fairing install
I used saw horses.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 17, 2010, at 1:02 PM, "Wade Roe" wrote:
I need some recommendations as to the best way to elevate my completed RV7
fuselage so that I can align the gear leg fairings. The weight should be
around 600lb. Is there a better way than jack stands under the center
section and weighting the tail?
Thanks!
Wade Roe
RV7 in the final stretch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Gallenbach <craigtxtx(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear fairing install |
I rigged a motorcycle jack under the center section. That worked well for me.
On Jun 17, 2010, at 1:02 PM, "Wade Roe" wrote:
I need some recommendations as to the best way to elevate my completed RV7 fuselage
so that I can align the gear leg fairings. The weight should be around 600lb.
Is there a better way than jack stands under the center section and weighting
the tail?
Thanks!
Wade Roe
RV7 in the final stretch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <smitty(at)smittysrv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear fairing install |
Check this posting:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=11956
Smitty
http://SmittysRV.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Gallenbach
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing gear fairing install
I rigged a motorcycle jack under the center section. That worked well
for me.
On Jun 17, 2010, at 1:02 PM, "Wade Roe" wrote:
I need some recommendations as to the best way to elevate my
completed RV7 fuselage so that I can align the gear leg fairings. The
weight should be around 600lb. Is there a better way than jack stands
under the center section and weighting the tail?
Thanks!
Wade Roe
RV7 in the final stretch
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternate way to Attach RV-8 Skirt to Canopy Frame Suggestion |
Hey gents,
I am at the same spot. Have been considering sikaflex (how I did the
canopy) and 3M 5200. Where in the archives would I find this information?
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Finishing
San Ramon, CA
In a message dated 6/17/2010 10:54:35 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
crowbotham(at)hotmail.com writes:
Hi Robin,
We used the same adhensive that Christian Eagle uses on our 8A. The
complete details with product info are in the archives. The RV was hangered in
CT and flown on a regular basis through out the year over nine years - No
cracks and no change in the seal.
Hope this helps - Keep at it - it's really worth the effort!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A (Sold)
RV-9A (Dave's building)
____________________________________
From: robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 09:03:30 -0700
Subject: RV-List: Alternate way to Attach RV-8 Skirt to Canopy Frame
Suggestion
It is time for us to attach the skirt to the canopy frame where the plans
call for pop rivets. Is there a preferred or alternate choice to pop rivets
(we hope)? Something like epoxy that has been proven to work?
Thanks,
Robin
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution
____________________________________
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your
inbox. _Learn more._
(http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-6A/7A test plan |
| From: | thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
I am starting to work on a test plan which the FAA wants you to have by the
time you get an airworthiness certificate. Are there any samples of these
of these available on the web anywhere? Does any one have one they would be
willing to divulge?
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marty Helller <marty_away(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6A/7A test plan |
A starting point is the test plan Advisory Circular which is on the EAA web
page.
Marty Heller
RV-7=2C wiring
Date: Thu=2C 17 Jun 2010 16:40:16 -0700
Subject: RV-List: RV-6A/7A test plan
From: sarg314(at)gmail.com
I am starting to work on a test plan which the FAA wants you to have by th
e time you get an airworthiness certificate. Are there any samples of thes
e of these available on the web anywhere? Does any one have one they would
be willing to divulge?
--
Tom Sargent=2C RV-6A.
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox
.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O
N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Landing gear fairing install |
Transmission jack works really nice for that but you still have to tie the
tail down.
Bill S
7a almost there
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wade Roe
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:03 PM
Subject: RV-List: Landing gear fairing install
I need some recommendations as to the best way to elevate my completed RV7
fuselage so that I can align the gear leg fairings. The weight should be
around 600lb. Is there a better way than jack stands under the center
section and weighting the tail?
Thanks!
Wade Roe
RV7 in the final stretch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robin Marks <Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> |
| Subject: | Alternate way to Attach RV-8 Skirt to Canopy Frame Suggestion |
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=100711999?KEYS=christian_eagle?LISTNAME=RV?HITNUMBER=3?SERIAL=00300129883?SHOWBUTTONS=YES
*Mark,*
* *
*Here is how we drilled and attached our canopy (no cracks)!!*
* *
*1. We heated the garage to about 90 degress 6 hours prior to starting to *
*work.*
* *
*2. We drilled the initial holes with a #40*
* *
*3. Opened up the #40 hole to the proper size with a Uni-Bit (single flute
no *
*grabbing!*
* *
*When we installed the canopy and shirt we use semi-weld (Pro-seal) in *
*caulking type tube that premixes it ( you'll need to use/borrow a *
*specialized caulking type gun to use the tubed material. We used minimal
alu *
*pop rivets (mostly as keeper riviets). The semi-weld method is the same as
*
*used on the Christian Eagles and Pits (without any rivets). You can also *
*paint the semi-weld after.*
* *
*Works and looks great and has some ability to flex (read deal with stress,*
* *
*Good Building,*
* *
*Chuck & Dave Rowbotham*
*RV-8A (Nianitc, CT)*
*From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *MLWynn(at)aol.com
*Sent:* Thursday, June 17, 2010 2:40 PM
*To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com
*Subject:* Re: RV-List: Alternate way to Attach RV-8 Skirt to Canopy Frame
Suggestion
Hey gents,
I am at the same spot. Have been considering sikaflex (how I did the
canopy) and 3M 5200. Where in the archives would I find this information?
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Finishing
San Ramon, CA
In a message dated 6/17/2010 10:54:35 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
crowbotham(at)hotmail.com writes:
Hi Robin,
We used the same adhensive that Christian Eagle uses on our 8A. The complete
details with product info are in the archives. The RV was hangered in CT
and flown on a regular basis through out the year over nine years - No
cracks and no change in the seal.
Hope this helps - Keep at it - it's really worth the effort!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A (Sold)
RV-9A (Dave's building)
------------------------------
From: robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 09:03:30 -0700
Subject: RV-List: Alternate way to Attach RV-8 Skirt to Canopy Frame
Suggestion
It is time for us to attach the skirt to the canopy frame where the plans
call for pop rivets. Is there a preferred or alternate choice to pop rivets
(we hope)? Something like epoxy that has been proven to work?
Thanks,
Robin
* *
* *
*p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List*
*ronics.com*
*ww.matronics.com/contribution*
* *
------------------------------
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
Learn more.<http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1>
* *
* *
*====================================*
*="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List*
*====================================*
*ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com*
*====================================*
*tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
*====================================*
* *
* *
* *
* *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ciolino" <johnciolino(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | RV-6A/7A test plan |
Tom,
Take a look at Kevin Horton=99s web site: www.kilohotel.com. Click
on =9CFlight Test Links=9D in the column on the left, then
on =9CTest Plans=9D. Plenty of sample plans to use.
John Ciolino
RV-8
N894Y
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of thomas sargent
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 7:40 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-6A/7A test plan
I am starting to work on a test plan which the FAA wants you to have by
the time you get an airworthiness certificate. Are there any samples of
these of these available on the web anywhere? Does any one have one
they would be willing to divulge?
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A/7A test plan |
Give your local EAA Flight Advisor a call.
Find Flight Advisor here
http://members.eaa.org/home/lookup/FindFlightAdvisor.asp
He can help you with the plan and first flight prep.
Dale Ensing
EAA FA & TC
----- Original Message -----
From: thomas sargent
To: rv-list
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 7:40 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-6A/7A test plan
I am starting to work on a test plan which the FAA wants you to have
by the time you get an airworthiness certificate. Are there any samples
of these of these available on the web anywhere? Does any one have one
they would be willing to divulge?
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternate way to Attach RV-8 Skirt to Canopy Frame Suggestion |
| From: | Richard Martin <martinaerodrome(at)gmail.com> |
robin,
10 years ago when I built my RV8, the adhesive process was started. I
procrastinated for several weeks trying to decide which process to use ie
rivets or adhesive. I used rivets because I did not understand or trust the
adhesive process. That was a mistake. No matter how careful you are during
the installation, after 100 hours cracks begin to appear from the rivet
points.
This forced me to stop drill the cracks. I have watched other
installations with adhesive, and I don't see cracks. I noticed after
flyinng 2000 hours on my RV8 that the canopy contracts and elongates
substantially with weather changes, especially in winter and summer. I
live in Wisconsin and it gets cold here in winter. I hope this experience
helps you with your decission. I vote for the adhesive process.
Dick Martin
RV8
N233M
the fast one
On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Robin Marks wrote:
> It is time for us to attach the skirt to the canopy frame where the plans
> call for pop rivets. Is there a preferred or alternate choice to pop rivets
> (we hope)? Something like epoxy that has been proven to work?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Robin
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robin Marks <Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> |
| Subject: | Alternate way to Attach RV-8 Skirt to Canopy Frame Suggestion |
Thanks Dick,
This morning we ordered two ordered two 2 oz. kits of Scotch
weld from Spruce. $35 per kit, but I know it's good stuff, we have used it
before. I was not going to use rivets. I remember what rivets did to my RV-4
canopy. Nothing will make you cry quicker than seeing your first crack in a
perfectly clean canopy.
Thanks,
Robin
*From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Richard Martin
*Sent:* Friday, June 18, 2010 6:06 AM
*To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com
*Subject:* Re: RV-List: Alternate way to Attach RV-8 Skirt to Canopy Frame
Suggestion
robin,
10 years ago when I built my RV8, the adhesive process was started. I
procrastinated for several weeks trying to decide which process to use ie
rivets or adhesive. I used rivets because I did not understand or trust the
adhesive process. That was a mistake. No matter how careful you are during
the installation, after 100 hours cracks begin to appear from the rivet
points.
This forced me to stop drill the cracks. I have watched other
installations with adhesive, and I don't see cracks. I noticed after
flyinng 2000 hours on my RV8 that the canopy contracts and elongates
substantially with weather changes, especially in winter and summer. I
live in Wisconsin and it gets cold here in winter. I hope this experience
helps you with your decission. I vote for the adhesive process.
Dick Martin
RV8
N233M
the fast one
On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Robin Marks wrote:
It is time for us to attach the skirt to the canopy frame where the plans
call for pop rivets. Is there a preferred or alternate choice to pop rivets
(we hope)? Something like epoxy that has been proven to work?
Thanks,
Robin
* *
* *
*t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List*
* *
*ttp://forums.matronics.com*
*_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
* *
* *
* *
* *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Stormy's Fly-In 6/26/10 |
| From: | Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
As we reach one week from the festivities, I'd like a nose count for food
planning purposes. Private e-mail to my gmail address would be fine.
Thanks, everyone!
Bill & MIriam Boyd
12VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <bgray(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Alternate way to Attach RV-8 Skirt to Canopy Frame Suggestion |
Over here in the plastic airplane world, the rule is to never drill
holes in plexiglass.
Bruce
www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 1:09 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Alternate way to Attach RV-8 Skirt to Canopy Frame
Suggestion
Thanks Dick,
This morning we ordered two ordered two 2 oz. kits of Scotch
weld from Spruce. $35 per kit, but I know it's good stuff, we have used
it before. I was not going to use rivets. I remember what rivets did to
my RV-4 canopy. Nothing will make you cry quicker than seeing your first
crack in a perfectly clean canopy.
Thanks,
Robin
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Martin
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 6:06 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Alternate way to Attach RV-8 Skirt to Canopy Frame
Suggestion
robin,
10 years ago when I built my RV8, the adhesive process was started. I
procrastinated for several weeks trying to decide which process to use
ie rivets or adhesive. I used rivets because I did not understand or
trust the adhesive process. That was a mistake. No matter how careful
you are during the installation, after 100 hours cracks begin to appear
from the rivet points.
This forced me to stop drill the cracks. I have watched other
installations with adhesive, and I don't see cracks. I noticed after
flyinng 2000 hours on my RV8 that the canopy contracts and elongates
substantially with weather changes, especially in winter and summer. I
live in Wisconsin and it gets cold here in winter. I hope this
experience helps you with your decission. I vote for the adhesive
process.
Dick Martin
RV8
N233M
the fast one
On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Robin Marks
wrote:
It is time for us to attach the skirt to the canopy frame where the
plans call for pop rivets. Is there a preferred or alternate choice to
pop rivets (we hope)? Something like epoxy that has been proven to work?
Thanks,
Robin
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV
-Li
=====================< - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ->
m">http://forums.matronics.com
-Matt Dralle, List A;
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry(at)mc.net> |
| Subject: | RV8 Building Question |
Dear Listers,
My thanks to those who contributed their expertise, experience, and just
down to earth tips about how to start building a purchased project. In this
case the building manual had missing pages. This list has highly qualified
people who love to share their stories. I'm now launching this build in the
middle of something I'm confident about.
Many thanks fellow builders ...
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | RV-6 or RV-7 motor mount wanted |
Anyone have a motor mount they'd like to sell? I need one for non-lyc
project. Conical mount would be fine; no gear legs needed.
Thanks,
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 or RV-7 motor mount wanted |
| From: | richard seiders <dickseiders(at)gmail.com> |
Have an RV6A mount for sale. Not what you are looking for maybe, but might
be adaptable. Very reasonable.
Dick Seiders
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Charlie England wrote:
>
> Anyone have a motor mount they'd like to sell? I need one for non-lyc
> project. Conical mount would be fine; no gear legs needed.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charlie
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 or RV-7 motor mount wanted |
Unfortunately, I need the taildragger version with the gear leg sockets
in place. I'll keep it in mind if another project comes along, though.
Thanks,
Charlie
On 6/20/2010 4:29 PM, richard seiders wrote:
> Have an RV6A mount for sale. Not what you are looking for maybe, but
> might be adaptable. Very reasonable.
> Dick Seiders
>
> On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Charlie England
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> Anyone have a motor mount they'd like to sell? I need one for
> non-lyc project. Conical mount would be fine; no gear legs needed.
>
> Thanks==================
> owse, Chat, FAQ,
> ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"
> target="_blank">http://ww==
> http://forums.mle, List Admin.
> ===== <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Update On RV-8 Princeton Fuel Probe Installation... |
Fellow RV'rs,
I am elated to report that last week I decided to try recalibrating the Princeton
fuel level probes in my RV-8 one last time before I began the arduous task
of replacing them with resistive float senders. I started with the right tank
and drained all of the fuel out, then entered calibration mode by applying power
to the unit with the button pressed. I then pressed the button once to indicate
the "empty" set point, then added exactly 5.5 Gallons, pressed the button,
etc., etc., until I'd added 21 gallons. During the whole process, the various
LED flashing patterns correctly matched the documented sequences based on
the stage of calibration. With a full tank, I went out and flew a little over
two hours at about 10 gallons per hour. During the flight, I carefully compared
the Priceton readings with the turbine fuel flow "fuel used" indicator which
has proven to be exceptionally accurate. As expected, the Pricetons reported
"Full" for the first 6 gallons or so because of the dihedral in the wing tank
and the fact that the probe is mounted at the root. Again, as expected, abruptly
the fuel level went from 21 to 15 gallons after about 6 gallons of burn
(or there abouts - sometimes both tanks seem to drop to around 18 then back
up to 21 during this first 6 gallons). From 15 to about 2 gallons, the Priceton's
reported a fuel level within 1 gallon of the flow meter's fuel used indicator!
Yahoo. I then repeated the whole calibration procedure exactly as before
but this time on the left tank and then went out and repeated the comparison
tests above on the left tank. I am even happier to report that again the calibration
of the left fuel level tracked the fuel flow meter's used amount within
1 gallon after the initial drop from 21 to 15 gallons after 6 gallons of burn.
I flew to about 4-5 gallons remaining on the left and right sides tonight
as reported by the fuel level meters and noted that the fuel flow meter's fuel
remaining coincided with a reported remaining of 10.3 gallons. I topped off
both tan!
ks and n
oted that both tanks then reported 21 gallons as expected.
So why didn't the first and second calibration attempts take? Who knows. All
that matters at this point is that they are both working and are exceptionally
accurate in the 15-0 gallon range which is where it counts. Oh, and that I don't
have to replace the probes! Yahoo.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | airworthiness inspection - random questions |
| From: | thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
I am going thru the "Sample checklist for a condition inspection" which is
appendix I of the AC 90-89A. Some of the items have me puzzled. Checking
some of these things just seems like an opportunity to disturb something
that was done right the last time it was done.
One of the items says to check the cylinder compression. This engine has
1.6 hours on it since rebuild (which admittedly was 10 years ago). The
rebuilder checked the compression. Seems to run good. Do I really need to
check the compression?
Engine mount bolt torque. It's been a couple years, but I torqued torqued
and safetied these very meticulously. I think these are best left alone.
My PC-680 Odyssey battery is strapped down very securely (in cabin) but not
in a battery box. I thought that an RG battery doesn't require an enclosing
box - no liquid acid there to leak out.
Is there any way to test the altimeter and airspeed when its in the plane?
Isn't that what the first flight or high speed taxi is supposed to check?
(I'm not going to do a high speed taxi, but my test pilot probably will.)
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A on collision course with DAR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
One more airworthiness issue: I'm typing up the operating limitations
document. My Van's construction manual specifies +6g, -3g limits for the 6A
at aerobatic weight of 1385 lbs, but it never mentions G-load limits for a
plane at nominal gross weight. I could scale these G loads down by
dividing by the ratio of gross weight/1375, I guess. Is there a more
official value for this?
Thanks,
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airworthiness inspection - random questions |
I would recommend doing the compression test. It isn't that much work,
and won't hurt anything. I agree with no need to mess with the engine
mount bolts, as long as they have the appropriate threads showing. Your
DAR may have a preference for cotter pins over safety wire...either done
right is fine. There is no requirement for a battery box..just a secure
mount for a sealed battery. Any place that does transponder and static
system checks can verify your altimeter and pitot system. The altimeter
system check is done on the airplane. Some shops prefer to calibrate
altimeter on the bench, but it isn't required, especially if you are
only getting VFR certification, which is all you can do in Phase I
anyway. Airspeed calibrations to the airframe are what you and/or your
test pilot do during phase I flights, to identify how the pitot and
static port configuration on your airframe affect the indicated values.
You can use FAR 43 Appendix D as a minimum check list for your initial
condition inspection. How you accomplish each item within what is
described is up to you. That list is the bare minimum for a certified
plane's annual inspection, but is a good starting point for developing a
list you want for your future condition inspections.
Kelly
A&P/IA
RV-10 in progress
On 6/20/2010 9:33 PM, thomas sargent wrote:
> I am going thru the "Sample checklist for a condition inspection"
> which is appendix I of the AC 90-89A. Some of the items have me
> puzzled. Checking some of these things just seems like an opportunity
> to disturb something that was done right the last time it was done.
>
> One of the items says to check the cylinder compression. This engine
> has 1.6 hours on it since rebuild (which admittedly was 10 years ago).
> The rebuilder checked the compression. Seems to run good. Do I
> really need to check the compression?
>
> Engine mount bolt torque. It's been a couple years, but I torqued
> torqued and safetied these very meticulously. I think these are best
> left alone.
>
> My PC-680 Odyssey battery is strapped down very securely (in cabin)
> but not in a battery box. I thought that an RG battery doesn't
> require an enclosing box - no liquid acid there to leak out.
>
> Is there any way to test the altimeter and airspeed when its in the
> plane? Isn't that what the first flight or high speed taxi is
> supposed to check? (I'm not going to do a high speed taxi, but my test
> pilot probably will.)
>
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A on collision course with DAR
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A G-loads |
Use what is official for certified planes in Part 23 for your normal
category gross wt. Off the top of my head, 3.8 positive, somewhere
around 1.5 negative. I'm pretty certain Van's designed for the normal
Part 23 limits for their recommended gross wt. You may want to see what
your empty wt comes in at before deciding whether you want to use the
recommended gross or something a bit higher.
On 6/20/2010 9:44 PM, thomas sargent wrote:
> One more airworthiness issue: I'm typing up the operating limitations
> document. My Van's construction manual specifies +6g, -3g limits for
> the 6A at aerobatic weight of 1385 lbs, but it never mentions G-load
> limits for a plane at nominal gross weight. I could scale these G
> loads down by dividing by the ratio of gross weight/1375, I guess.
> Is there a more official value for this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Tom Sargent
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kim Nicholas <knicholas2(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Handheld GPS during BFR/ IPC |
I am scheduled to take my bi- annual review and an IFR proficiency
check. My evaluator is uncomfortable with my AnyWhere Map GPS in the
cockpit. Handheld GPS are not allowed as primary navigation, but are
allowed for supplemental situation awareness. Is there a FAR that
says a GPS cannot be used during a BFR or IPC?
Kim Nicholas
RV 9
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 20, 2010, at 9:33 PM, thomas sargent wrote:
> I am going thru the "Sample checklist for a condition inspection"
> which is appendix I of the AC 90-89A. Some of the items have me
> puzzled. Checking some of these things just seems like an
> opportunity to disturb something that was done right the last time
> it was done.
>
> One of the items says to check the cylinder compression. This
> engine has 1.6 hours on it since rebuild (which admittedly was 10
> years ago). The rebuilder checked the compression. Seems to run
> good. Do I really need to check the compression?
>
> Engine mount bolt torque. It's been a couple years, but I torqued
> torqued and safetied these very meticulously. I think these are
> best left alone.
>
> My PC-680 Odyssey battery is strapped down very securely (in cabin)
> but not in a battery box. I thought that an RG battery doesn't
> require an enclosing box - no liquid acid there to leak out.
>
> Is there any way to test the altimeter and airspeed when its in the
> plane? Isn't that what the first flight or high speed taxi is
> supposed to check? (I'm not going to do a high speed taxi, but my
> test pilot probably will.)
>
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A on collision course with DAR
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airworthiness inspection - random questions |
If you can't find someone to check your static system with a full test
setup, you can create a water manometer to test the pitot system and
airspeed indicator. If you search the internet, I'm sure you can find a
chart for inches of water to airspeed table. You can check the static
system and pitot for leaks by connecting tubing from static port and
tee'd to the pitot to a hand vacuum pump. (be sure to temporarily tape
shut the drain port on pitot and a second static port if you have it,
and then remove when test is done). Pump vacuum to 1000 ft indication
above your current elevation and hold. Start timing. If you lose less
than 100 ft in 1 min your system meets the requirements for being leak
free. Don't just pump vacuum on static port as you can damage your
airspeed indicator if it isn't at same pressure altitude as altimeter.
On 6/20/2010 9:33 PM, thomas sargent wrote:
> I am going thru the "Sample checklist for a condition inspection"
> which is appendix I of the AC 90-89A.
>
> Is there any way to test the altimeter and airspeed when its in the
> plane? Isn't that what the first flight or high speed taxi is
> supposed to check? (I'm not going to do a high speed taxi, but my test
> pilot probably will.)
>
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A on collision course with DAR
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RICHARD MILLER <rickpegser(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airworthiness inspection - random questions |
Tom
--- Now that you have done your ground runs, every bolt needs to be c
hecked for torque. No the battery does not need a box. Yes, check the compr
ession, you are an idiot if you don't.- If you have an injected engine an
d you have not done pressure checks on the engine, see previous line. If yo
ur torque wrench has not seen a cal lab in a year it needs to be put back i
n the box until it sees one. I have yet to see a builder that send their to
rque wrenches out for annual cal.
rick-
--- On Sun, 6/20/10, thomas sargent wrote:
From: thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: airworthiness inspection - random questions
Date: Sunday, June 20, 2010, 9:33 PM
I am going thru the "Sample checklist for a condition inspection" which is
appendix I of the AC 90-89A. -Some of the items have me puzzled. -Check
ing some of these things just seems like an opportunity to disturb somethin
g that was done right the last time it was done.
One of the items says to check the cylinder compression. -This engine has
1.6 hours on it since rebuild (which admittedly was 10 years ago). -The
rebuilder checked the compression. -Seems to run good. -Do I really nee
d to check the compression?
Engine mount bolt torque. -It's been a couple years, but I torqued torque
d and safetied these very meticulously. -I think these are best left alon
e.
My PC-680 Odyssey battery is strapped down very securely (in cabin) but not
in a battery box. -I thought that an RG battery doesn't require an enclo
sing box - no liquid acid there to leak out.
Is there any way to test the altimeter and airspeed when its in the plane?
-Isn't that what the first flight or high speed taxi is supposed to check
? (I'm not going to do a high speed taxi, but my test pilot probably will.)
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A on collision course with DAR
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: airworthiness inspection - random questions |
IMHO ......
thomas sargent wrote:
> I am going thru the "Sample checklist for a condition inspection"
> which is appendix I of the AC 90-89A. Some of the items have me
> puzzled. Checking some of these things just seems like an opportunity
> to disturb something that was done right the last time it was done.
>
> One of the items says to check the cylinder compression. This engine
> has 1.6 hours on it since rebuild (which admittedly was 10 years ago).
I take it that you bought the engine 10 years ago and are now just
finishing your project? (Finally saw DAR comment at end) Why are you
doing a conditional inspection now? I'm missing something here so my
comments may not be accurate. If just using it as a checklist instead
of a true conditional inspection ..... just look at the items.
> The rebuilder checked the compression. Seems to run good. Do I
> really need to check the compression?
Most definitely yes. All kinds of things happen to degrade an engine
and compression test .... especially after 10 years sitting and just
after a major rebuild. The test isn't difficult and other than oil
pressure is the only real indicator of the engines health. Sitting this
long .... especially if the engine wasn't pickled ..... I'd be worried
about rust on the cam and the cam followers .... this will destroy both
if not cleaned up .... which means tearing the engine down. If it's in
a really dry climate you might have dodged this bullet. My advice is to
pull a cylinder just to make sure. Time invested here may save you big
bucks in the near future and the parts are cheap.
> Engine mount bolt torque. It's been a couple years, but I torqued
> torqued and safetied these very meticulously. I think these are best
> left alone.
I would check it at the end of phase 1 if that's where we're at.
>
> My PC-680 Odyssey battery is strapped down very securely (in cabin)
> but not in a battery box. I thought that an RG battery doesn't
> require an enclosing box - no liquid acid there to leak out.
This is true.
>
> Is there any way to test the altimeter and airspeed when its in the plane?
Yes. It's called a manometer. Simple to make and use. Your EAA
chapter might just have one ..... and the expertise to use it.
> Isn't that what the first flight or high speed taxi is supposed to
> check? (I'm not going to do a high speed taxi, but my test pilot
> probably will.)
It would be nice to know that they work and are close to being accurate
before the airplane leaves the ground. There is no benefit from a high
speed taxi test (IMHO) and just invites the opportunity for Murphy to
stick his nose in it.
Linn
>
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A on collision course with DAR
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A G-loads |
Tom, you're making this too difficult. You don't care about the limits
at Gross .... because you shouldn't be doing aerobatics that weight.
Scaling doesn't work either because of the engineering math involved.
My advice is to just don't go there.
Linn
thomas sargent wrote:
> One more airworthiness issue: I'm typing up the operating limitations
> document. My Van's construction manual specifies +6g, -3g limits for
> the 6A at aerobatic weight of 1385 lbs, but it never mentions G-load
> limits for a plane at nominal gross weight. I could scale these G
> loads down by dividing by the ratio of gross weight/1375, I guess.
> Is there a more official value for this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Tom Sargent
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Handheld GPS during BFR/ IPC |
Kim Nicholas wrote:
>
> I am scheduled to take my bi- annual review and an IFR proficiency
> check. My evaluator is uncomfortable with my AnyWhere Map GPS in the
> cockpit. Handheld GPS are not allowed as primary navigation, but are
> allowed for supplemental situation awareness. Is there a FAR that
> says a GPS cannot be used during a BFR or IPC?
I don't know that answer. My examiner didn't care about my AWM. But
just to make your guy comfortable, take out the AWM and use a chart and
a compass. You might get a copy of the handbook that tells the examiner
what you're required to demonstrate as part of the BFR. There's
probably one for IPC, but I don't know for sure.
That book (BFR) says one hour of ground and one hour of flight ..... and
my guy won't accept any less time, even though he's my passenger a lot.
He goes by the book!
Linn
>
> Kim Nicholas
> RV 9
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 20, 2010, at 9:33 PM, thomas sargent > wrote:
>
>> I am going thru the "Sample checklist for a condition inspection"
>> which is appendix I of the AC 90-89A. Some of the items have me
>> puzzled. Checking some of these things just seems like an
>> opportunity to disturb something that was done right the last time it
>> was done.
>>
>> One of the items says to check the cylinder compression. This engine
>> has 1.6 hours on it since rebuild (which admittedly was 10 years
>> ago). The rebuilder checked the compression. Seems to run good. Do
>> I really need to check the compression?
>>
>> Engine mount bolt torque. It's been a couple years, but I torqued
>> torqued and safetied these very meticulously. I think these are best
>> left alone.
>>
>> My PC-680 Odyssey battery is strapped down very securely (in cabin)
>> but not in a battery box. I thought that an RG battery doesn't
>> require an enclosing box - no liquid acid there to leak out.
>>
>> Is there any way to test the altimeter and airspeed when its in the
>> plane? Isn't that what the first flight or high speed taxi is
>> supposed to check? (I'm not going to do a high speed taxi, but my
>> test pilot probably will.)
>>
>> --
>> Tom Sargent, RV-6A on collision course with DAR
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cheathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: airworthiness inspection - random questions |
Re cyl compression test, I think it is a must do. Every one I know
wouldnt do an anual without it. I installed a 170 hr engine three yrs
ago, replacing my 2280 hr 320, it ran ok, but #3 only tested 60 over 80.
They were Superiors, and I had that cyl OH. The other 3 were in mid
70's. Charlie H
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Handheld GPS during BFR/ IPC |
Guidance for both flight review and IPC are contained in the practical
test standards booklet (PTS). You have to be prepared to demonstrate
satisfactorily anything in the PTS for your highest rating. Most CFIs
are going to look that you operate within safe parameters and that you
never give them doubt about safe completion of the flight. Our EAA
chapter has started offering a 3-4 hour ground school for BFR, that most
local instructors accept in lieu of their personal time. Lengthy, yes.
How many have kept up with all the reg changes since you got your
certificate? How many attend any safety seminars? On-line courses with
AOPA or FAA?
On 6/21/2010 4:36 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
> I don't know that answer. My examiner didn't care about my AWM.
> But just to make your guy comfortable, take out the AWM and use a
> chart and a compass. You might get a copy of the handbook that tells
> the examiner what you're required to demonstrate as part of the BFR.
> There's probably one for IPC, but I don't know for sure.
>
> That book (BFR) says one hour of ground and one hour of flight .....
> and my guy won't accept any less time, even though he's my passenger a
> lot. He goes by the book!
> Linn
> *
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Mack" <don(at)dmack.net> |
| Subject: | Rudder cable protection with interior fabric |
I am installing the interior fabric wall panels in my 6A. I am installing
the side panels that are next to the pilot/passenger seats. How did you
protect the rudder cables that will be under the fabric or did you run the
material behind the rudder cables leaving them exposed?
Don Mack | don(at)dmack.net | www.dmack.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder cable protection with interior fabric |
| From: | Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
Don:
I made 1/2" CPVC tubes for the cables to travel through on the outside of
the sidewall upholstery - dresses it up neat and protects objects in the
side pockets from being sawed by the cables. The tubes butt onto grommets
in the U-channels by means of CPVC couplings. I don't have pics; sorry.
Bill Boyd RV-6A
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 9:27 AM, Don Mack wrote:
>
> I am installing the interior fabric wall panels in my 6A. I am installing
> the side panels that are next to the pilot/passenger seats. How did you
> protect the rudder cables that will be under the fabric or did you run the
> material behind the rudder cables leaving them exposed?
>
>
> Don Mack | don(at)dmack.net | www.dmack.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A G-loads |
| From: | thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
No, I'm not actually interested in pulling G's or even doing aerobatics at
all. It just seems like the G-load figures at ma gross should be in the
operating limitations.
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 4:29 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
> Tom, you're making this too difficult. You don't care about the limits at
> Gross .... because you shouldn't be doing aerobatics that weight. Scaling
> doesn't work either because of the engineering math involved. My advice is
> to just don't go there.
> Linn
>
>
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: airworthiness inspection - random questions |
| From: | thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
OK. I guess I might as well buy the compression test gauges. I'll need them
at annual time anyway. I'll get my 2 torque wrenches calibrated too. I
did once several years ago, but it needs to be done again.
Thanks for all the feedback.
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: airworthiness inspection - random questions |
thomas sargent wrote:
> OK. I guess I might as well buy the compression test gauges.
Harbor freight has them. But you might check your EAA chapter first.
> I'll need them at annual time anyway. I'll get my 2 torque wrenches
> calibrated too. I did once several years ago, but it needs to be done
> again.
If that's what you want to do. I'll admit to not getting mine
calibrated. So flame me if y'all want to. I use the German method ....
gootdentite.
Linn
>
>
> Thanks for all the feedback.
>
> --
> Tom Sargent
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Listers-
With the recent announcement that the FCC will discourage the sale of the
older 121.5MHz ELTs this August, I would be interested in conversing with
those of you who have done the switch from the ACK E-01 to the E-04 in a
flying aircraft with panel mounted GPS.
Thanks in advance.
N1GV (RV-6A Flying 944TTAE Silicon Valley, CA)
"Intelligence is displayed in two fundamental ways: understanding problems
and solving problems." --G.E. Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Corey Crawford <corey.crawford(at)gmail.com> |
Unfortunately, the E-04 from ACK is not yet available - ACK is stuck in
certification red tape.
--
Corey Crawford
corey.crawford(at)gmail.com
RV-7A - Denver, CO
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 8:37 PM, wrote:
> Listers-
>
> With the recent announcement that the FCC will discourage the sale of the
> older 121.5MHz ELTs this August, I would be interested in conversing
> with those of you who have done the switch from the ACK E-01 to the E-04 in
> a flying aircraft with panel mounted GPS.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
> N1GV (RV-6A Flying 944TTAE Silicon Valley, CA)
> "Intelligence is displayed in two fundamental ways: understanding problems
> and solving problems." --G.E. Moore
>
> **
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Greenley" <wgreenley(at)gmail.com> |
This is discussed in http://eaa.org/news/2010/2010-06-21_conflicting.asp .
My question is, does this mean that it is unlawful to broadcast in 121.5 by
the ELT. If so, are all the new 406 elts also now illegal since they all
from what I see broadcast on both 406 and 121.5? I could not find any that
only use 406.
Bill Greenley
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vanremog(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: 406MHz ELTs
Listers-
With the recent announcement that the FCC will discourage the sale of the
older 121.5MHz ELTs this August, I would be interested in conversing with
those of you who have done the switch from the ACK E-01 to the E-04 in a
flying aircraft with panel mounted GPS.
Thanks in advance.
N1GV (RV-6A Flying 944TTAE Silicon Valley, CA)
"Intelligence is displayed in two fundamental ways: understanding problems
and solving problems." --G.E. Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
"Discourage the sale," - yeah. From what I read, it's more like "ban the
use of." The FAA is apparently OK with 121.5 ELT's remaining in use, but
the FCC plans to cite you if you activate one for any reason.
Typical big gov.
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 10:37 PM, wrote:
> Listers-
>
> With the recent announcement that the FCC will discourage the sale of the
> older 121.5MHz ELTs this August, I would be interested in conversing
> with those of you who have done the switch from the ACK E-01 to the E-04 in
> a flying aircraft with panel mounted GPS.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
> N1GV (RV-6A Flying 944TTAE Silicon Valley, CA)
> "Intelligence is displayed in two fundamental ways: understanding problems
> and solving problems." --G.E. Moore
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <smitty(at)smittysrv.com> |
Dang. My new ELT for my RV-9A was just delivered last week. Boat anchor,
"get a rope".
Smitty
----- Original Message -----
From: Corey Crawford
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: 406MHz ELTs
Unfortunately, the E-04 from ACK is not yet available - ACK is stuck
in certification red tape.
--
Corey Crawford
corey.crawford(at)gmail.com
RV-7A - Denver, CO
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 8:37 PM, wrote:
Listers-
With the recent announcement that the FCC will discourage the sale
of the older 121.5MHz ELTs this August, I would be interested in
conversing with those of you who have done the switch from the ACK E-01
to the E-04 in a flying aircraft with panel mounted GPS.
Thanks in advance.
N1GV (RV-6A Flying 944TTAE Silicon Valley, CA)
"Intelligence is displayed in two fundamental ways: understanding
problems and solving problems." --G.E. Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Swaney <swaneymj(at)mac.com> |
This is what the Aircraft Spruce catalog says about the ACK E-04 ELT:=0AUn
dergoing certification testing, ACK is not accepting orders for the E-04 u
ntil ELT certification process is complete.-ACK 406/121.5 MHz E-04 ELTAC
K 406/121.5 MHz E-04 ELTACK 406/121.5 MHz E-04 ELT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marty Helller <marty_away(at)hotmail.com> |
Before taking any action=3B wait for more accurate news. The news clip we'
re seeing says=2C 'FCC will discourage the sale' not=2C 'must replace.' Y
ou might be one of the last buyers of the technology=2C as am I.
The issue isn't about saving lifes=3B it's about rescue workers responding
to false alarms.....
Marty Heller
RV-7=2C Wiring
From: smitty(at)smittysrv.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: 406MHz ELTs
Date: Tue=2C 22 Jun 2010 11:46:00 -0500
Dang. My new ELT for my RV-9A was just delivered last week. Boat anchor=2C
"get a rope".
Smitty
----- Original Message -----
From: Corey Crawford
Sent: Tuesday=2C June 22=2C 2010 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: 406MHz ELTs
Unfortunately=2C the E-04 from ACK is not yet available - ACK is stuck in c
ertification red tape.
--
Corey Crawford
corey.crawford(at)gmail.com
RV-7A - Denver=2C CO
On Mon=2C Jun 21=2C 2010 at 8:37 PM=2C wrote:
Listers-
With the recent announcement that the FCC will discourage the sale of the o
lder 121.5MHz ELTs this August=2C I would be interested in conversing with
those of you who have done the switch from the ACK E-01 to the E-04 in a fl
ying aircraft with panel mounted GPS.
Thanks in advance.
N1GV (RV-6A Flying 944TTAE Silicon Valley=2C CA)
"Intelligence is displayed in two fundamental ways: understanding problems
and solving problems." --G.E. Moore
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with H
otmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=
PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott <acepilot(at)bloomer.net> |
If you're involved in an emergency and a 121.5 MHz ELT goes off, the FCC
would be hard pressed to fine you. As a ham operator, I can use ANY
radio or other means necessary to protect life, limb or property in an
EMERGENCY and that right should also be with every citizen....
FCC Regulations, Part 97 covers us hams:
*
97.403 Safety of life and protection of property.-
<http://www.arrl.org/part-97-amateur-radio#>
No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station
of any means of radio communication at its disposal to provide
essential communication needs in connection with the immediate
safety of human life and immediate protection of property when
normal communication systems are not available.
Bill Boyd wrote:
> "Discourage the sale," - yeah. From what I read, it's more like "ban
> the use of." The FAA is apparently OK with 121.5 ELT's remaining in
> use, but the FCC plans to cite you if you activate one for any reason.
>
> Typical big gov.
>
> On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 10:37 PM, > wrote:
>
> Listers-
>
> With the recent announcement that the FCC will discourage the sale
> of the older 121.5MHz ELTs this August, I would be interested in
> conversing with those of you who have done the switch from the ACK
> E-01 to the E-04 in a flying aircraft with panel mounted GPS.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
> N1GV (RV-6A Flying 944TTAE Silicon Valley, CA)
> "Intelligence is displayed in two fundamental ways: understanding
> problems and solving problems." --G.E. Moore
>
> *
>
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Flying Corben Junior Ace - Building RV-4
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott <acepilot(at)bloomer.net> |
I still don't get it (and admittedly haven't done my homework)...how
will going to the 406 MHz ELTs prevent false alarms?
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Flying Corben Junior Ace - Building RV-4
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Marty Helller wrote:
> Before taking any action; wait for more accurate news. The news clip
> we're seeing says, 'FCC will discourage the sale' not, 'must
> replace.' You might be one of the last buyers of the technology, as
> am I.
>
> The issue isn't about saving lifes; it's about rescue workers
> responding to false alarms.....
>
> Marty Heller
> RV-7, Wiring
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | 320 vs 360 flywheel |
Hi all:
Anyone know the answer to this question..the perimeter bolt holes (the
inch holes just under the ring gear, not the prop bolt holes) on the 0-360
flywheel vs those on an 0-320is there any difference? In other words, if I
lay an 0-320 flywheel on top of one for an 0-360 will the perimeter bolt
holes all line up? Need to know if my Landoll steel ring for 0-360 will
bolt onto 0-320 flywheel. Thanks for the help.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
Weather looks, well, possibly stormy. The heat wave is forecast to continue
through Sunday, but there's a significant rain chance the next 3 days. A
nice slow-moving squall line would help re-fill the river... it's a bit low
at present but plenty warm.
I've had a few affirmative RSVP's to this point; hopefully others are
waiting to the last minute to chime in. I need to get the chicken order to
the meat market tomorrow, so if you're planning to drop in for BBQ and
fellowship (and hopefully tubing) - give me a heads-up so we have ample grub
for all. It's on us - no need to bring any dishes.
"Stormy" - earning the nickname for about 10 years now...
Hop-Along Airstip
identifier 12VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
Stormy's fly-in BBQ in western Virginia is on today. Lunch served at 12:00.
We won't be tubing because the river is butt-draggin' low (no rain in weeks
here) but will enjoy food and fellowship through the afternoon. Wx looks
good. Come join us - we have extra food :-)
No Unicomm this year - just come on in to 12VA--- www.airnav.com--- for
navigational details. Land on "32" - the runway is the brown (usually green,
but not this month) strip between the hayfields.
See ya!
Bill & Miriam Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Two cooling questions |
| From: | thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
The airworthiness inspection my RV-6A will be next week, so first flight
will be soon after that. I'm wondering about cooling the engine. The 2
main things that steal cooling air form the engine are the oil cooler and
the take-off for the cabin heat.
1- I certainly don't need cabin heat in Arizona in June. If I block off the
opening in the baffles that is plumbed to the heat muff, no air will
circulate thru the heat muff. Is that OK? Will that stretch of exhaust
pipe get too hot? Is that what most folks do in the summer?
2- I did the oil cooler installation on the baffles behind cylinder #4. I
used the Stewart Warner 7 row oil cooler, so I expect it to be pretty
effective; that is, I doubt it needs the full opening that it has. Will I
do better to block off, say, 1/3 of that to start with, or should I leave it
wide open and just see what happens on the first flight?
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, ready for inspection.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N616TB <N616TB(at)btsapps.com> |
| Subject: | Two cooling questions |
I don't think you mentioned what engine and such you have but here is my situation.
RV-6 with 0-360 carb and constant speed prop.
I have my oil cooler mounted on the back of the baffle and two cabin heat muffs.
My engine ran very hot initially so I tried just about everything to get the CHT
temps down.
The two things that did NOT add significant help were: blocking off the cabin heat,
blocking off part of the oil cooler.
I now have a door behind my oil cooler so I can block it as needed. I see vans
has a new slider that goes between the oil cooler and the baffle and that looks
real nice. I may adapt mine to that. The only reason however is the oil temps
are usually very low so I use the door to try to get my oil temps up. It
does not add significantly to the CHT problem.
I finally got my CHT's to an acceptable level by adding louvers in the bottom of
the cowl. I did everything that was suggested and all my baffles are very tight.
My CHT's now run in the low 400's during initial take off and climb out. I climb
out between 110 and 120 to keep them in the 410 - 420 range. Once in cruise,
my CHT's run more about 375 or a bit lower. I wish it was all lower, but can't
seem to get that to happen.
I would entertain the idea of leaving things the way they are for first flight
until you know what your temps look like. Plan a shallow climb as this is where
the high temps would come into play if it was going to be a problem. You will
soon know what is or isn't an issue. Double check the baffles are all sealing
and that will show up after you fly as it leaves marks on the inside of the
baffle. Also another area that creates a problem is at the air intake ramps
if the air can go around them as in over the top and escape to the low pressure
side.
Good luck and I look forward to hearing of your first flight.
Tim Bryan
Frankston, Texas
RV-6 (N616TB)
140 hours and counting
________________________________________
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
Behalf Of thomas sargent [sarg314(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 5:18 PM
Subject: RV-List: Two cooling questions
The airworthiness inspection my RV-6A will be next week, so first flight will be
soon after that. I'm wondering about cooling the engine. The 2 main things
that steal cooling air form the engine are the oil cooler and the take-off for
the cabin heat.
1- I certainly don't need cabin heat in Arizona in June. If I block off the opening
in the baffles that is plumbed to the heat muff, no air will circulate thru
the heat muff. Is that OK? Will that stretch of exhaust pipe get too hot?
Is that what most folks do in the summer?
2- I did the oil cooler installation on the baffles behind cylinder #4. I used
the Stewart Warner 7 row oil cooler, so I expect it to be pretty effective; that
is, I doubt it needs the full opening that it has. Will I do better to block
off, say, 1/3 of that to start with, or should I leave it wide open and just
see what happens on the first flight?
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, ready for inspection.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | philip smith <madriver(at)wildblue.net> |
OK my next problem.
You folks have always come to my rescue in previous jams. I am sending this
to several "lists" in hopes of getting some help. BTW there ares at least
two other projects in our local area that will be in the same predicament.
After three years of building and anticipating the sign-off of my Kit Built
Zenith CH 701 I find that the DAR that I spoke with three years ago who did
inspections in our area - Boise ID / Twin Falls ID - has hung up his hat and
no longer does the airworthiness inspections.
I looked - cursory glance - at the EAA list of inspectors and the closest
three I could find were: Salt Lake City Utah area, Eastern Oregon and
Montana - all some distance away.
I have been told, but not checked, the FAA office in Boise does not do the
inspection due to lack of time and also not the proper credentials.
What to do, what to do - I should be ready in a matter of weeks. Any ideas
of DAR volunteers that would like to make a nice trip to sunny southern
Idaho, would offer the possibility of great home cooked meals, lodging,
golf, trout fishing just about anything to get this done expeditiously.
Your thoughts please, drop an email or give me a call.
Phil Smith
1795 River Rd
Buhl, ID 83316
208 543 9270
madriver(at)wildblue.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: DAR Inspection |
Check with the FAA in Boise .... they'll know all the DARs nearby. You
should contact the FSDO yourself ...... go there in person ..... may
have to make an appointment ..... but YOU should get the word from the
horses mouth. If they refuse to inspect your airplane, then you have
two choices .... use the DAR they recommend ..... or write the office of
your local congressman and explain your plight. The last thing the FAA
wants is heat from above. The FAA is tasked with the job of inspecting
homebuilts .... but they've subbed the responsibility to DARs which
doesn't entirely let them off the hook.
We've had two people recently get their planes inspected ..... one was
put off (we're too busy, contact this DAR) but they finally came over.
He made a stink (and wasted a lot of time) to get his Sonex inspected
but they finally came over. The inspection was a real nit-pick, and the
second trip got his certificate. Last wed, after a 2 week delay, the
FSDO inspected an RV-7 in a half hour, and issued a certificate. So,
you may have to wait 'till the 'schedule' opens up (or apply pressure)
or get a local DAR. But, first I'd do a face-to-face with the FSDO
people. In the case of the -7 above, the FSDO asked for some paperwork
to be on file prior to the inspection. I'll ask what they were if you
need me to.
Linn
PS I was born in Boise. Left when I was a toddler.
philip smith wrote:
> OK my next problem.
>
> You folks have always come to my rescue in previous jams. I am sending
> this to several "lists" in hopes of getting some help. BTW there ares
> at least two other projects in our local area that will be in the same
> predicament.
>
> After three years of building and anticipating the sign-off of my Kit
> Built Zenith CH 701 I find that the DAR that I spoke with three years
> ago who did inspections in our area - Boise ID / Twin Falls ID - has
> hung up his hat and no longer does the airworthiness inspections.
>
> I looked - cursory glance - at the EAA list of inspectors and the
> closest three I could find were: Salt Lake City Utah area, Eastern
> Oregon and Montana - all some distance away.
>
> I have been told, but not checked, the FAA office in Boise does not do
> the inspection due to lack of time and also not the proper credentials.
>
> What to do, what to do - I should be ready in a matter of weeks. Any
> ideas of DAR volunteers that would like to make a nice trip to sunny
> southern Idaho, would offer the possibility of great home cooked
> meals, lodging, golf, trout fishing just about anything to get this
> done expeditiously.
>
> Your thoughts please, drop an email or give me a call.
>
> Phil Smith
> 1795 River Rd
> Buhl, ID 83316
>
> 208 543 9270
>
> madriver(at)wildblue.com
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
Phil=2C
Go talk to the FSDO there in Boise. Time permitting they will do the inspe
ction. I know the guys there (I helped train the assistant manager in Amat
eur-Builts=2C and he is building an RV-4) and they love to inspect them=2C
but this time of year is very hard on us inspectors with all the inspection
s we have to do. For example=2C I have been on the road 3 of the last 4 we
eks doing inspections. If they can't get to you in a time-frame you want I
have a couple of recommendations. One is Mike Dehate=2C in Prineville=2C O
R=2C and the other is Tom Willis=2C in Sandpoint=2C ID. Tom has a Bonanza
and just looks for an excuse to fly it somewhere.
Hopefully this info will help.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
Date: Sun=2C 27 Jun 2010 09:15:39 -0600
Subject: RV-List: DAR Inspection
From: madriver(at)wildblue.net
@matronics.com
OK my next problem.
You folks have always come to my rescue in previous jams. I am sending this
to several "lists" in hopes of getting some help. BTW there ares at least
two other projects in our local area that will be in the same predicament.
After three years of building and anticipating the sign-off of my Kit Built
Zenith CH 701 I find that the DAR that I spoke with three years ago who di
d inspections in our area - Boise ID / Twin Falls ID - has hung up his hat
and no longer does the airworthiness inspections.
I looked - cursory glance - at the EAA list of inspectors and the closest t
hree I could find were: Salt Lake City Utah area=2C Eastern Oregon and Mont
ana - all some distance away.
I have been told=2C but not checked=2C the FAA office in Boise does not do
the inspection due to lack of time and also not the proper credentials.
What to do=2C what to do - I should be ready in a matter of weeks. Any idea
s of DAR volunteers that would like to make a nice trip to sunny southern I
daho=2C would offer the possibility of great home cooked meals=2C lodging
=2C golf=2C trout fishing just about anything to get this done expeditiousl
y.
Your thoughts please=2C drop an email or give me a call.
Phil Smith
1795 River Rd
Buhl=2C ID 83316
208 543 9270
madriver(at)wildblue.com
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your
inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O
N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <av8er2fly(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DAR Inspection |
Are you talking about Russ Graves?
----- Original Message Mark Rose
Jerome-----
From: philip smith
To: RV-List(at)matronics.com ; RotaxEngines-List(at)matronics.com ;
zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 8:15 AM
Subject: RV-List: DAR Inspection
OK my next problem.
You folks have always come to my rescue in previous jams. I am sending
this to several "lists" in hopes of getting some help. BTW there ares
at least two other projects in our local area that will be in the same
predicament.
After three years of building and anticipating the sign-off of my Kit
Built Zenith CH 701 I find that the DAR that I spoke with three years
ago who did inspections in our area - Boise ID / Twin Falls ID - has
hung up his hat and no longer does the airworthiness inspections.
I looked - cursory glance - at the EAA list of inspectors and the
closest three I could find were: Salt Lake City Utah area, Eastern
Oregon and Montana - all some distance away.
I have been told, but not checked, the FAA office in Boise does not do
the inspection due to lack of time and also not the proper credentials.
What to do, what to do - I should be ready in a matter of weeks. Any
ideas of DAR volunteers that would like to make a nice trip to sunny
southern Idaho, would offer the possibility of great home cooked meals,
lodging, golf, trout fishing just about anything to get this done
expeditiously.
Your thoughts please, drop an email or give me a call.
Phil Smith
1795 River Rd
Buhl, ID 83316
208 543 9270
madriver(at)wildblue.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: DAR Inspection |
| From: | Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
Tom had the hangar beside me at 8A7 while he was in NC. Good guy.
__
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
On Jun 27, 2010 12:46 PM, "Mike Robertson" wrote:
Phil,
Go talk to the FSDO there in Boise. Time permitting they will do the
inspection. I know the guys there (I helped train the assistant manager in
Amateur-Builts, and he is building an RV-4) and they love to inspect them,
but this time of year is very hard on us inspectors with all the inspections
we have to do. For example, I have been on the road 3 of the last 4 weeks
doing inspections. If they can't get to you in a time-frame you want I have
a couple of recommendations. One is Mike Dehate, in Prineville, OR, and the
other is Tom Willis, in Sandpoint, ID. Tom has a Bonanza and just looks for
an excuse to fly it somewhere.
Hopefully this info will help.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 09:15:39 -0600
Subject: RV-List: DAR Inspection
From: madriver(at)wildblue.net
zenith-list(at)matronics.com
OK my next problem.
You folks have always come to my rescue in previous jams. I am sending
this...
*http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?R=========
*
------------------------------
Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your
inbox. See how.<http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List: DAR Inspection |
talk to you buds at the local EAA chapter, theyll know.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: philip smith <madriver(at)wildblue.net>
>Sent: Jun 27, 2010 11:15 AM
>To: RV-List(at)matronics.com, RotaxEngines-List(at)matronics.com, zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: DAR Inspection
>
>OK my next problem.
>
>You folks have always come to my rescue in previous jams. I am sending this
>to several "lists" in hopes of getting some help. BTW there ares at least
>two other projects in our local area that will be in the same predicament.
>
>After three years of building and anticipating the sign-off of my Kit Built
>Zenith CH 701 I find that the DAR that I spoke with three years ago who did
>inspections in our area - Boise ID / Twin Falls ID - has hung up his hat and
>no longer does the airworthiness inspections.
>
>I looked - cursory glance - at the EAA list of inspectors and the closest
>three I could find were: Salt Lake City Utah area, Eastern Oregon and
>Montana - all some distance away.
>
>I have been told, but not checked, the FAA office in Boise does not do the
>inspection due to lack of time and also not the proper credentials.
>
>What to do, what to do - I should be ready in a matter of weeks. Any ideas
>of DAR volunteers that would like to make a nice trip to sunny southern
>Idaho, would offer the possibility of great home cooked meals, lodging,
>golf, trout fishing just about anything to get this done expeditiously.
>
>Your thoughts please, drop an email or give me a call.
>
>Phil Smith
>1795 River Rd
>Buhl, ID 83316
>
>208 543 9270
>
>madriver(at)wildblue.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Two cooling questions |
| From: | Dan Bergeron <dan.pat.b(at)gmail.com> |
TOM:
RE YOUR "ANTICIPATED" COOLING PROBLEMS - FLY THE AIRPLANE FIRST AND FIND OUT
IF YOU EVEN HAVE A PROBLEM. YOU'RE PROBABLY GOING TO FIND NO PROBLEM AT
ALL.
LIKE MOST RV BUILDERS - I HAVE TWO OPENINGS CUT INTO MY REAR BAFFLES - ONE
FEEDS AIR INTO THE OIL COOLER PLENUM, AND THE OTHER INTO A HEAT MUFF ON ONE
EXHAUST PIPE, FROM WHERE IT FEEDS INTO A SECOND MUFF, THEN TO THE HEAT
CONTROL UNIT ON THE FIREWALL. I HAVE A SLIDING GATE VALVE, MOUNTED BEHIND
THE BAFFLE, WHICH CONTROLS AIR FLOW INTO THE OIL COOLER PLENUM VIA A
PUSH/PULL CABLE. ON HOT SUMMER DAYS THAT VALVE IS ALWAYS WIDE OPEN -
TYPICALLY MY SUMMER OIL TEMP RUNS IN THE HIGH 170S - IN WINTER OF COURSE I
CLOSE THE VALVE DOWN AS NECESSARY TO KEEP THE OIL TEMPS WHERE THEY NEED BE.
REMEMBER THAT ENGINE OIL PLAYS A BIG ROLE IN KEEPING YOUR ENGINE COOL AND
HAPPY. I'D LEAVE THAT OIL COOLER DOOR WIDE OPEN UNTIL YOU SEE WHAT'S WHAT.
THE OTHER OPENING, WHICH FEEDS AIR INTO THE HEAT MUFFS IS ALWAYS GOING TO
BE OPEN - IN THE SENSE THAT THE HEAT CONTROL BOX ON THE FIREWALL IS EITHER
DIRECTING WARM AIR INTO THE CABIN, OR IT'S DUMPING IT OVERBOARD.
IN A CLIMB ON A HOT DAY YOU CAN REDUCE THE CLIMB ANGLE TO KEEP YOUR CLIMB
SPEEDS ABOVE 100 KTS. HECK - WITH FULL POWER AT 120 KTS YOU'RE STILL
CLIMBING AT APPROX 900' A MINUTE. YOU CAN REDUCE THE CLIMB ANGLE EVEN
FURTHER AND CLIMB AT PARTIAL POWER YOU CAN ALSO STEP CLIMB IF NECESSARY TO
KEEP YOUR CYL HEAD TEMPS BELOW 400. I RECENTLY FINISHED A BOOK, "FLY THE
ENGINE" BY KAS THOMAS. HE STATES SOMEWHERE IN THERE, AND I'M PARAPHRASING:
"COOL TEMPS ARE THE WHOLE STORY IN EXTENDING ENGINE LIFE," AND "KEEP
CYLINDERS HEALTHY BY KEEPING THEM COOL." HE RECOMMEND KEEPING CHTS BELOW
380 AT ALL TIMES.
GOOD LUCK AND FLY SAFE.
DAN BERGERON
RV-7A - N307TB
154 HOURS SINCE FIRST
FLIGHT ON 08/04/09
On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 9:07 AM, N616TB wrote:
>
>
> I don't think you mentioned what engine and such you have but here is my
> situation.
>
> RV-6 with 0-360 carb and constant speed prop.
>
> I have my oil cooler mounted on the back of the baffle and two cabin heat
> muffs.
> My engine ran very hot initially so I tried just about everything to get
> the CHT temps down.
>
> The two things that did NOT add significant help were: blocking off the
> cabin heat, blocking off part of the oil cooler.
>
> I now have a door behind my oil cooler so I can block it as needed. I see
> vans has a new slider that goes between the oil cooler and the baffle and
> that looks real nice. I may adapt mine to that. The only reason however is
> the oil temps are usually very low so I use the door to try to get my oil
> temps up. It does not add significantly to the CHT problem.
>
> I finally got my CHT's to an acceptable level by adding louvers in the
> bottom of the cowl. I did everything that was suggested and all my baffles
> are very tight.
>
> My CHT's now run in the low 400's during initial take off and climb out. I
> climb out between 110 and 120 to keep them in the 410 - 420 range. Once in
> cruise, my CHT's run more about 375 or a bit lower. I wish it was all
> lower, but can't seem to get that to happen.
>
> I would entertain the idea of leaving things the way they are for first
> flight until you know what your temps look like. Plan a shallow climb as
> this is where the high temps would come into play if it was going to be a
> problem. You will soon know what is or isn't an issue. Double check the
> baffles are all sealing and that will show up after you fly as it leaves
> marks on the inside of the baffle. Also another area that creates a problem
> is at the air intake ramps if the air can go around them as in over the top
> and escape to the low pressure side.
>
> Good luck and I look forward to hearing of your first flight.
> Tim Bryan
> Frankston, Texas
> RV-6 (N616TB)
> 140 hours and counting
> ________________________________________
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [
> owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of thomas sargent [
> sarg314(at)gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 5:18 PM
> To: rv-list
> Subject: RV-List: Two cooling questions
>
> The airworthiness inspection my RV-6A will be next week, so first flight
> will be soon after that. I'm wondering about cooling the engine. The 2
> main things that steal cooling air form the engine are the oil cooler and
> the take-off for the cabin heat.
>
> 1- I certainly don't need cabin heat in Arizona in June. If I block off
> the opening in the baffles that is plumbed to the heat muff, no air will
> circulate thru the heat muff. Is that OK? Will that stretch of exhaust
> pipe get too hot? Is that what most folks do in the summer?
>
> 2- I did the oil cooler installation on the baffles behind cylinder #4. I
> used the Stewart Warner 7 row oil cooler, so I expect it to be pretty
> effective; that is, I doubt it needs the full opening that it has. Will I
> do better to block off, say, 1/3 of that to start with, or should I leave it
> wide open and just see what happens on the first flight?
>
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A, ready for inspection.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | New Tires - Highest Quality...? |
Its almost time for a new set of tires on the 'ol RV-8. What are the very best
tires for the RV wheels? I'd like something that will last a little longer than
70 hours.
Thanks in advance for the feedback...
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Tires - Highest Quality...? |
| From: | mr.gsun(at)gmail.com |
I like the Michelins. I've replaced them once in 4 years of flying,
bouncing & taxiing. Probably 200 hours of flying. Swapped them on the
rims about half way thru their life and will probably replace these some
time this winter.
On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 8:58 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>
> Its almost time for a new set of tires on the 'ol RV-8. What are the very
> best tires for the RV wheels? I'd like something that will last a little
> longer than 70 hours.
>
> Thanks in advance for the feedback...
>
>
> Matt Dralle
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | New Tires - Highest Quality...? |
By far the best tires (longest lasting) have been the Wilkerson Retreads.
http://www.wilkersonaircrafttires.com/
http://www.wilkersonaircrafttires.com/range.html
Last ones were $50 US Each delivered.
2nd place is Goodyear.
3rd is the Michelin.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell=2C
2=2C381+ Flying Hours So. CA=2C USA
> Date: Sun=2C 27 Jun 2010 20:58:35 -0700
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com=3B rv7-list(at)matronics.com=3B rv8-list@matronics
.com
> From: dralle(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: New Tires - Highest Quality...?
>
>
>
> Its almost time for a new set of tires on the 'ol RV-8. What are the ver
y best tires for the RV wheels? I'd like something that will last a little
longer than 70 hours.
>
> Thanks in advance for the feedback...
>
>
> Matt Dralle
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor...
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hot
mail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=P
ID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rveighta(at)comcast.net |
I'm building an RV-12 without recognition/landing lights because=C2- 1) I
don't plan on flying at night, and 2) I'm trying to make this bird
as light as possible. My question is about strobe lights - is that a requir
ement?
Walt Shipley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Huft" <rv8tor(at)lazy8.net> |
| Subject: | Two cooling questions |
It has been the accepted wisdom that if the heat muff is on the pipe,
then air should be flowing through it to keep it from overheating. I
never tested that, but I would just take the heat muff off if I
wasn=99t running air through it. I think this is why all heat
selector valves are two way rather than just on-off.
I would just leave the cooler as isyour vernatherm should keep
the oil from being too cold, you can go for drag reduction later.
John
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of thomas sargent
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 4:18 PM
Subject: RV-List: Two cooling questions
The airworthiness inspection my RV-6A will be next week, so first flight
will be soon after that. I'm wondering about cooling the engine. The 2
main things that steal cooling air form the engine are the oil cooler
and the take-off for the cabin heat.
1- I certainly don't need cabin heat in Arizona in June. If I block off
the opening in the baffles that is plumbed to the heat muff, no air will
circulate thru the heat muff. Is that OK? Will that stretch of exhaust
pipe get too hot? Is that what most folks do in the summer?
2- I did the oil cooler installation on the baffles behind cylinder #4.
I used the Stewart Warner 7 row oil cooler, so I expect it to be pretty
effective; that is, I doubt it needs the full opening that it has. Will
I do better to block off, say, 1/3 of that to start with, or should I
leave it wide open and just see what happens on the first flight?
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, ready for inspection.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Tires - Highest Quality...? |
For the west coast I would consider Desser retreads as well. (standard
retread, not their Monster Retread).
On 6/28/2010 4:15 AM, RV6 Flyer wrote:
> By far the best tires (longest lasting) have been the Wilkerson Retreads.
>
> http://www.wilkersonaircrafttires.com/
> http://www.wilkersonaircrafttires.com/range.html
> Last ones were $50 US Each delivered.
>
> 2nd place is Goodyear.
>
> 3rd is the Michelin.
>
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> 2,381+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
>
>
> > Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 20:58:35 -0700
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; rv7-list(at)matronics.com;
> rv8-list(at)matronics.com
> > From: dralle(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV-List: New Tires - Highest Quality...?
> >
> >
> >
> > Its almost time for a new set of tires on the 'ol RV-8. What are the
> very best tires for the RV wheels? I'd like something that will last a
> little longer than 70 hours.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for the feedback...
> >
> >
> > Matt Dralle
> > RV-8 #82880 N998RV
> > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
> > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> > Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor...
> >==========
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts
> with Hotmail. Get busy.
> <http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
Walt=2C
No=2C a strobe is not required unless Van's states it is in their builder's
manual (if you are building the ELSAQ kit). In the case of the RV-12 I th
ink Van's calls it optional equipment=2C but I'm not totally sure.
Mike Robertson
Date: Mon=2C 28 Jun 2010 12:44:16 +0000
From: rveighta(at)comcast.net
Subject: RV-List: Strobe Light
I'm building an RV-12 without recognition/landing lights because 1) I don'
t plan on flying at night=2C and 2) I'm trying to make this bird
as light as possible. My question is about strobe lights - is that a requir
ement?
Walt Shipley
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inb
ox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O
N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <bgray(at)glasair.org> |
Walt,
While you might not plan on doing any night flying, look a little
farther into the future. When you might want to sell your baby. Most
pilots fly at night, any airplane not equipped with nav/landing/strobe
lights would place it at the bottom of a buyers list.
Bruce
www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Robertson
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 11:41 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Strobe Light
Walt,
No, a strobe is not required unless Van's states it is in their
builder's manual (if you are building the ELSAQ kit). In the case of
the RV-12 I think Van's calls it optional equipment, but I'm not totally
sure.
Mike Robertson
_____
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 12:44:16 +0000
From: rveighta(at)comcast.net
Subject: RV-List: Strobe Light
I'm building an RV-12 without recognition/landing lights because 1) I
don't plan on flying at night, and 2) I'm trying to make this bird
as light as possible. My question is about strobe lights - is that a
requirement?
Walt Shipley
3D=======================
3D====================
3D=======================
3D====================
3D=======================
3D====================
3D=======================
3D====================
_____
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your
inbox. Learn more.
<http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL
:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Odd running cylinder |
Configuration reminder:
RV6A
SamJames cowl/plenum
AeroSportPower built XP IO360B1F6
9.2:1 pistons
AFP injection (Flow balanced to .1gph per AFP instructions)
LASAR ignition (MAP monitor on #4, CHT monitor on #3)
Vetterman Dual crossover exhaust with heater/mufflers
MT three blade MTV12B183-59 propellor
During the first few minutes of operation (essentially through climb-out and throttle-back),
my number one cylinder indicates a higher CHT and EGT.
Neither the CHT or EGT raise to a dangerous level and both return to normal upon
establishing cruise settings.
My number one cylinder also has an injector restrictor that is 5% larger than the
other three in order to balance fuel flow for leaning purposes.
This has occurred seven out of the last eight flights. The missing one is kinda
in the middle.
Data capture is through an AFS3400EM at 1 second intervals. I have data and graphs
if someone wants to look-see.
I am wondering if I might have something in the fuel injection distribution spider
that is partially blocking one line below a certain flow rate.
Any other thoughts,
Ralph
RV6A N822AR @ N06 70 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HCRV6(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: New Tires - Highest Quality...? |
Matt,
After my original el cheapo tires wore out in about 70 hours, I tried Goodyear
Flight Custom III's (from Desser Tire) and got about 465 hours on the first set.
I make lots of short flights so probably average two or tree landings per hour,
all on pavement ( and very few of them smooth). I'm on the second set now
and I really like 'em (except for the price!)
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 704 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 8:58:35 PM
Subject: RV-List: New Tires - Highest Quality...?
Its almost time for a new set of tires on the 'ol RV-8. What are the very best
tires for the RV wheels? I'd like something that will last a little longer than
70 hours.
Thanks in advance for the feedback...
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com> |
On Mon, 28 Jun 2010, Bruce Gray wrote:
> Walt,
>
> While you might not plan on doing any night flying, look a little
> farther into the future. When you might want to sell your baby. Most
> pilots fly at night, any airplane not equipped with nav/landing/strobe
> lights would place it at the bottom of a buyers list.
>
As a contrary viewpoint, build the plane you want, not what you think
someone else might want. I don't fly at night or in bad weather, so I'm
going no lights, no gyros. Save a few pounds and few hundred dollars.
I'm not building to sell, I'm building this plane for me.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com)
RV-8A 80091 fitting wings
1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Reuven Silberman <pilots2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Tires - Highest Quality...? |
Which ever tire you buy, do not under any circumstances get the Dresser bra
nd no-leak inner tube. Spend the few bucks more to get a name brand. I had
two-flat tires on landings that-were the result of- the very-low-
quality-of-the tubes.--The first-flat (right side)-was due to "
checking" or rotting of the side wall of the tube-and the 2nd (left side)
-was due to a seam letting go. The second tube also exhibited checking /
rotting.- I sent the second tube back to Dresser and-let them know I wa
s not happy with the quality of their tubes. I asked them for 2 new tubes a
nd tires and to pay for the repair of the wheel pants. They credited my car
d for the cost of the tubes only. =0A=0ABackground;- I bought 2-tires a
nd Dresser no-leak-tubes and installed them at the same time during the D
ec 07 annual.- The first flat occured- late 09 and the second about a m
onth ago. Between the Dec 07 annual and now I dont think there has been mor
e than 30 landings on the tires.-7WT is hangared. --=0A=0AReuven-
---=0A-Enjoy life now=0AIt has an expiration date. =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_
_______________________________=0AFrom: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth
.net>=0ATo: rv-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, June 28, 2010 8:33:26 AM=0AS
ubject: Re: RV-List: New Tires - Highest Quality...?=0A=0A--> RV-List messa
ge posted by: Linn Walters =0A=0AI've been using
retreads for a lot of years with zero problems.- The retreads seem to la
st a lot longer than first-run tires.- Kinda like the lifespan of origina
l car tires Vs. replacements Vs. retreads.- The Monster retreads will las
t a lot longer, but for the recreational pilot .... well, they'll dry-rot b
efore you get to use up all the tread .... and they're heavy.=0A=0ALinn=0Ad
lly McMullen =0A> =0A> For the west coast I would cons
ider Desser retreads as well. (standard retread, not their Monster Retread)
.=0A> =0A> =0A> On 6/28/2010 4:15 AM, RV6 Flyer wrote:=0A>> By far the best
tires (longest lasting) have been the Wilkerson Retreads.=0A>> =0A>> http:
//www.wilkersonaircrafttires.com/=0A>> http://www.wilkersonaircrafttires.co
m/range.html=0A>> Last ones were $50 US Each delivered.=0A>> =0A>> 2nd plac
e is Goodyear.=0A>> =0A>> 3rd is the Michelin.=0A>> =0A>> Gary A. Sobek=0A>
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,=0A>> 2,381+ Flying Hours So. CA,
USA=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> > Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 20:58:35 -0700=0A>> > T
o: rv-list(at)matronics.com; rv7-list(at)matronics.com; rv8-list(at)matronics.com=0A
>> > From: dralle(at)matronics.com=0A>> > Subject: RV-List: New Tires - Highes
lle(at)matronics.com>=0A>> >=0A>> >=0A>> > Its almost time for a new set of ti
res on the 'ol RV-8. What are the very best tires for the RV wheels? I'd li
ke something that will last a little longer than 70 hours.=0A>> >=0A>> > Th
anks in advance for the feedback...=0A>> >=0A>> >=0A>> > Matt Dralle=0A>> >
RV-8 #82880 N998RV=0A>> > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Constructi
on Log=0A>> > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Ch
annel=0A>> > Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor...=0A>> >
============0A>> >=0A>> >=0A>> >=0A>> =0A>> ---------
---------------------------------------------------------------=0A>> The Ne
w Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail.
Get busy. <http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccou
nt&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4> =0A>> *=0A>> =0A
========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RICHARD MILLER <rickpegser(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Odd running cylinder |
souunds like an intake leak
rick
--- On Mon, 6/28/10, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
> From: Ralph E. Capen <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
> Subject: RV-List: Odd running cylinder
> To: "rv-list"
> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 9:12 AM
> "Ralph E. Capen"
>
> Configuration reminder:
> RV6A
> SamJames cowl/plenum
> AeroSportPower built XP IO360B1F6
> 9.2:1 pistons
> AFP injection (Flow balanced to .1gph per AFP
> instructions)
> LASAR ignition (MAP monitor on #4, CHT monitor on #3)
> Vetterman Dual crossover exhaust with heater/mufflers
> MT three blade MTV12B183-59 propellor
>
> During the first few minutes of operation (essentially
> through climb-out and throttle-back), my number one cylinder
> indicates a higher CHT and EGT.
> Neither the CHT or EGT raise to a dangerous level and both
> return to normal upon establishing cruise settings.
> My number one cylinder also has an injector restrictor that
> is 5% larger than the other three in order to balance fuel
> flow for leaning purposes.
>
> This has occurred seven out of the last eight
> flights. The missing one is kinda in the middle.
>
> Data capture is through an AFS3400EM at 1 second
> intervals. I have data and graphs if someone wants to
> look-see.
>
> I am wondering if I might have something in the fuel
> injection distribution spider that is partially blocking one
> line below a certain flow rate.
>
> Any other thoughts,
> Ralph
> RV6A N822AR @ N06 70 hours
>
>
>
>
> Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Odd running cylinder |
I will check that one out....
Never heard of one closing itself after take-off though....
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
>From: RICHARD MILLER <rickpegser(at)yahoo.com>
>Sent: Jun 28, 2010 3:25 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Odd running cylinder
>
>
>souunds like an intake leak
>rick
>
>--- On Mon, 6/28/10, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>
>> From: Ralph E. Capen <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
>> Subject: RV-List: Odd running cylinder
>> To: "rv-list"
>> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 9:12 AM
>> "Ralph E. Capen"
>>
>> Configuration reminder:
>> RV6A
>> SamJames cowl/plenum
>> AeroSportPower built XP IO360B1F6
>> 9.2:1 pistons
>> AFP injection (Flow balanced to .1gph per AFP
>> instructions)
>> LASAR ignition (MAP monitor on #4, CHT monitor on #3)
>> Vetterman Dual crossover exhaust with heater/mufflers
>> MT three blade MTV12B183-59 propellor
>>
>> During the first few minutes of operation (essentially
>> through climb-out and throttle-back), my number one cylinder
>> indicates a higher CHT and EGT.
>> Neither the CHT or EGT raise to a dangerous level and both
>> return to normal upon establishing cruise settings.
>> My number one cylinder also has an injector restrictor that
>> is 5% larger than the other three in order to balance fuel
>> flow for leaning purposes.
>>
>> This has occurred seven out of the last eight
>> flights. The missing one is kinda in the middle.
>>
>> Data capture is through an AFS3400EM at 1 second
>> intervals. I have data and graphs if someone wants to
>> look-see.
>>
>> I am wondering if I might have something in the fuel
>> injection distribution spider that is partially blocking one
>> line below a certain flow rate.
>>
>> Any other thoughts,
>> Ralph
>> RV6A N822AR @ N06 70 hours
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Forum -
>> FAQ,
>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>> List Contribution Web Site -
>> -Matt
>> Dralle, List Admin.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N616TB <N616TB(at)btsapps.com> |
| Subject: | Using flaps for takeoff |
I just had a conversation with a gentlemen from our airpark who said during the
last flyin all the RV-s took off with some flaps. I had been told previously
the flaps in the RV were drag flaps only and did no real good for lift. I also
did my transition training a few years ago with Mike Seager and he did not
have me using any flaps for take off. Since I have not tried it (yet) I was wondering
if some of you are using flaps for takeoff and if you can tell any real
difference. Would love to hear your thoughts.
Tim Bryan
RV-6 N616TB
Frankston, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Rice <rice737(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Using flaps for takeoff |
Hey Tim=2C
I don't see how the flaps on RV's would only be drag flaps=2C if so=2C they
would not lower your stall speed when extended. Mine surely do. (RV8) Ju
st like a Piper=2C Cessna=2C or Mooney for that matter=2C adding a little f
lap (10 degrees or so) should reduce your take off run and get you over the
tree line a little faster.
Good flying=2C
Paul
> From: N616TB(at)btsapps.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Mon=2C 28 Jun 2010 17:06:28 -0500
> Subject: RV-List: Using flaps for takeoff
>
>
> I just had a conversation with a gentlemen from our airpark who said duri
ng the last flyin all the RV-s took off with some flaps. I had been told pr
eviously the flaps in the RV were drag flaps only and did no real good for
lift. I also did my transition training a few years ago with Mike Seager an
d he did not have me using any flaps for take off. Since I have not tried i
t (yet) I was wondering if some of you are using flaps for takeoff and if y
ou can tell any real difference. Would love to hear your thoughts.
>
> Tim Bryan
> RV-6 N616TB
> Frankston=2C Texas
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Timothy E. Cone" <tcone1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Using flaps for takeoff |
I only use flaps on takeoff when I have someone in the back seat. I'm
certain the tail comes up more easily with a little flap.
As to whether it improves runway performance in terms of shortening the
required field length or not...are you kidding? It would have to be a
REALLY short field before my -8 started having to worry about it.
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Rice
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 3:23 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Using flaps for takeoff
Hey Tim,
I don't see how the flaps on RV's would only be drag flaps, if so,
they would not lower your stall speed when extended. Mine surely do.
(RV8) Just like a Piper, Cessna, or Mooney for that matter, adding a
little flap (10 degrees or so) should reduce your take off run and get
you over the tree line a little faster.
Good flying,
Paul
> From: N616TB(at)btsapps.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 17:06:28 -0500
> Subject: RV-List: Using flaps for takeoff
>
>
> I just had a conversation with a gentlemen from our airpark who said
during the last flyin all the RV-s took off with some flaps. I had been
told previously the flaps in the RV were drag flaps only and did no real
good for lift. I also did my transition training a few years ago with
Mike Seager and he did not have me using any flaps for take off. Since I
have not tried it (yet) I was wondering if some of you are using flaps
for takeoff and if you can tell any real difference. Would love to hear
your thoughts.
>
> Tim Bryan
> RV-6 N616TB
> Frankston, Texas
&g========================
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | Using flaps for takeoff |
Way back before the turn of the century when I got my free ride in the
factory RV-8a here at Arlington, WA with Bill Benedict, then general manager
of Van's, I remember him commenting that although it wasn't necessarily
recommended procedure, he "did it like a Cessna" and put in a little bit of
flaps on takeoff. I don't recall his reason, if he gave me one.
Terry
Stalled (on the ground) RV-8A project
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Timothy E. Cone
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Using flaps for takeoff
I only use flaps on takeoff when I have someone in the back seat. I'm
certain the tail comes up more easily with a little flap.
As to whether it improves runway performance in terms of shortening the
required field length or not...are you kidding? It would have to be a
REALLY short field before my -8 started having to worry about it.
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Rice <mailto:rice737(at)msn.com>
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 3:23 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Using flaps for takeoff
Hey Tim,
I don't see how the flaps on RV's would only be drag flaps, if so, they
would not lower your stall speed when extended. Mine surely do. (RV8) Just
like a Piper, Cessna, or Mooney for that matter, adding a little flap (10
degrees or so) should reduce your take off run and get you over the tree
line a little faster.
Good flying,
Paul
> From: N616TB(at)btsapps.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 17:06:28 -0500
> Subject: RV-List: Using flaps for takeoff
>
>
> I just had a conversation with a gentlemen from our airpark who said
during the last flyin all the RV-s took off with some flaps. I had been told
previously the flaps in the RV were drag flaps only and did no real good for
lift. I also did my transition training a few years ago with Mike Seager and
he did not have me using any flaps for take off. Since I have not tried it
(yet) I was wondering if some of you are using flaps for takeoff and if you
can tell any real difference. Would love to hear your thoughts.
>
> Tim Bryan
> RV-6 N616TB
> Frankston, Texas
&g=======================
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott <acepilot(at)bloomer.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Using flaps for takeoff |
I'm not sure with RVs, but....wouldn't flaps (ie 10 degrees) be used for
soft field takeoffs and no flaps for short field takeoffs (ie clearing
trees at the end of a short field)? That's how it works with Cessnas
and I assume Pipers and Mooneys as well. That's the way I was taught
(in our Cessna 140), but maybe that's old school thinking ;)
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Flying Corben Junior Ace - Building RV-4
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Paul Rice wrote:
> Hey Tim,
>
> I don't see how the flaps on RV's would only be drag flaps, if so,
> they would not lower your stall speed when extended. Mine surely do.
> (RV8) Just like a Piper, Cessna, or Mooney for that matter, adding a
> little flap (10 degrees or so) should reduce your take off run and get
> you over the tree line a little faster.
>
> Good flying,
>
> Paul
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Using flaps for takeoff |
Well, I can tell you that in a Cessna 170B and up, flaps shorten takeoff
roll and clearing an obstacle until DA is more than 4500 ft. The old
ones used 20 degrees until the 172 added a notch for 10 degrees and that
was what was used. The Mooney uses 15 degrees of flaps for all takeoffs
unless crosswind is too strong to handle with flaps, regardless of DA.
On 6/28/2010 4:56 PM, Scott wrote:
>
> I'm not sure with RVs, but....wouldn't flaps (ie 10 degrees) be used
> for soft field takeoffs and no flaps for short field takeoffs (ie
> clearing trees at the end of a short field)? That's how it works with
> Cessnas and I assume Pipers and Mooneys as well. That's the way I was
> taught (in our Cessna 140), but maybe that's old school thinking ;)
>
> Scott
> http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
> Flying Corben Junior Ace - Building RV-4
> Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
>
>
> Paul Rice wrote:
>> Hey Tim,
>>
>> I don't see how the flaps on RV's would only be drag flaps, if so,
>> they would not lower your stall speed when extended. Mine surely do.
>> (RV8) Just like a Piper, Cessna, or Mooney for that matter, adding a
>> little flap (10 degrees or so) should reduce your take off run and
>> get you over the tree line a little faster.
>> Good flying,
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott <acepilot(at)bloomer.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Using flaps for takeoff |
I can see how 10 degrees might lessen the takeoff roll due to being able
to lift off at a slightly lower airspeed. Can anyone explain why the
obstacle clearance would be better with flaps down? There is more drag,
so wouldn't rate of climb be slightly less? I suppose if you climb at
just above stall speed, your ground speed would be lower, thus taking
longer to get to that tree line? So, why do instructors teach flaps for
soft field and no flaps for short field?
What does the POH in the 170B say about soft and short field ops?
Scott
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Well, I can tell you that in a Cessna 170B and up, flaps shorten
> takeoff roll and clearing an obstacle until DA is more than 4500 ft.
> The old ones used 20 degrees until the 172 added a notch for 10
> degrees and that was what was used. The Mooney uses 15 degrees of
> flaps for all takeoffs unless crosswind is too strong to handle with
> flaps, regardless of DA.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "j. davis" <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Update On RV-8 Princeton Fuel Probe Installation... |
On 06/21/2010 12:00 AM, Matt Dralle wrote:
> All that
> matters at this point is that they are both working and are exceptionally accurate
in
> the 15-0 gallon range which is where it counts.
...and you just *might* owe Princeton an apology for what I *seem* to remember
as some
pretty heavy bad-mouthing in your last few posts. But w/o actually going back into
the
archives, I may be wrong...
Regards, J.
Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jabiru 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
restoring the Johnston Special
http://cleco.ca
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
| J. Davis, M.Sc. | (computer science) |
| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin | email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
Last year I went fishing with Salvador Dali. He was using
a dotted line. He caught every other fish.
--- Steven Wright
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> |
| Subject: | Using flaps for takeoff |
The reason is the same for most airplanes, Vans included. More lift.
To Tim=92s question that included the statement =93all the RV-s took off wi
th
some flaps=94
Well it=92s hard to get all pilots to do anything the same let alone us
non-conformist =93don=92t tell me what to do=94 Experimental pilots. I have
never
heard of a flap that was =93drag only=94 seems near pointless, might as wel
l
avoid the weight & complexity of flaps that do not produce lift (and drag).
The entire RV product line is extremely versatile and can take off with no
flaps in most environments. The RV-10 is the only Vans design (I don=92t kn
ow
about the RV-12) with a 3 degree flap take off setting to improve hard
surface take off performance. That being said adding some flap to all RV
models should shorten take off roll. How much is needed or ideal depends on
the plane, weight configuration, runway surface etc... Most important is
that you as a pilot remember the flaps are deployed and do not exceed Vfe.
So Tim give 10 degrees a test to see how it makes a difference on your ship
.
Then try a little more and a little less.
For me flying my RV-4 & RV-6A both with 180 Hp I never used flaps on takeof
f
unless I was practicing or had concerns of clearing obstacles. In those
cases I usually kept my hand on the throttle and finger on the flap up
toggle as a reminder to retract flaps when able.
Good luck,
Robin
*From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Terry Watson
*Sent:* Monday, June 28, 2010 4:55 PM
*To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com
*Subject:* RE: RV-List: Using flaps for takeoff
Way back before the turn of the century when I got my free ride in the
factory RV-8a here at Arlington, WA with Bill Benedict, then general manage
r
of Van=92s, I remember him commenting that although it wasn=92t necessarily
recommended procedure, he =93did it like a Cessna=94 and put in a little bi
t of
flaps on takeoff. I don=92t recall his reason, if he gave me one.
Terry
Stalled (on the ground) RV-8A project
*From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Timothy E. Cone
*Sent:* Monday, June 28, 2010 3:36 PM
*To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com
*Subject:* Re: RV-List: Using flaps for takeoff
I only use flaps on takeoff when I have someone in the back seat. I'm
certain the tail comes up more easily with a little flap.
As to whether it improves runway performance in terms of shortening the
required field length or not...are you kidding? It would have to be a
REALLY short field before my -8 started having to worry about it.
Tim
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Paul Rice
*To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com
*Sent:* Monday, June 28, 2010 3:23 PM
*Subject:* RE: RV-List: Using flaps for takeoff
Hey Tim,
I don't see how the flaps on RV's would only be drag flaps, if so, they
would not lower your stall speed when extended. Mine surely do. (RV8) Jus
t
like a Piper, Cessna, or Mooney for that matter, adding a little flap (10
degrees or so) should reduce your take off run and get you over the tree
line a little faster.
Good flying,
Paul
> From: N616TB(at)btsapps.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 17:06:28 -0500
> Subject: RV-List: Using flaps for takeoff
>
>
> I just had a conversation with a gentlemen from our airpark who said
during the last flyin all the RV-s took off with some flaps. I had been tol
d
previously the flaps in the RV were drag flaps only and did no real good fo
r
lift. I also did my transition training a few years ago with Mike Seager an
d
he did not have me using any flaps for take off. Since I have not tried it
(yet) I was wondering if some of you are using flaps for takeoff and if you
can tell any real difference. Would love to hear your thoughts.
>
> Tim Bryan
> RV-6 N616TB
> Frankston, Texas
&g=======================
>
>
* *
* *
*href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?RV-List*
*href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
*href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
* *
* *
* *
*http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List*
* *
*http://forums.matronics.com*
* *
*http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
* *
* *
* *
* *
===========*
===========*
===========*
===========*
* *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Using flaps for takeoff |
I can't speak for Cessnas, since I have very little time in them.
Every other airplane I have flown is designed to get off as soon as it
can, that is at the lowest speed with which you can be assured of
flying under good control. I have not flown any airplane which takes
off without using flaps, if it has them.
The RV-6 I do know about and have quite a few take offs. Here is my
take:
the first 10 degrees (1/4) flap is mostly a lift gain and very little
drag added at low speed. You also get a new MAC line which gives you
a higher angle of attack at a given deck angle. If you go further
than 10, you start getting mostly drag and little or no add to the
lift. As I see it, your choice is to use 10 flaps and get off a
little sooner, or use no flaps and roll a little longer. I believe
the plane will accelerate better once the wheels get air under them,
so the obstacle clearance will be better, too. Lastly, the deck angle
is lower with the ten flaps and you can see better for that point in
the take off where you are just lifting off. Retracting the flaps is
the first thing I do after take off. before boost pump, RPM, or
throttle.
Consequently, I always use 10 flap for take off, except in a severe
cross wind (above 25K). In that case I am going to "pull it off" for
take off with a raid rotation. If you use any flap in that condition
it may crow hop toward the down wind side of the runway. Very
difficult to control..
A lot of RV guys don't use flap for take off and I don't think it is a
big deal. I do recommend every one try it, and try some stalls at 10
also. I think you will find the plane has a much more solid feel at
low airspeeds with the flap down a little. My personal observation is
that those folks who don't use flaps are operating at a lot higher
airspeed than I am. That's ok too. If you are going to not lift off
until you have 70 knots then why would you use flaps? Same applies
for landing.
I will offer that my tires last longer than most. Personally I
believe this to be because I try to touch down at 45K, and take off at
the same speed.
I don't think there is a good solution for everyone. For those who
don't fly much it makes sense (to me) to use higher speeds and longer
take off rolls. That is not for me, however.
For most of us, the RV normally accelerates so fast that this one or
two knot difference in stall/lift off speed is hard to even notice any
way. You will really notice it at high altitude hot day max gross
weight.
I hope this "one man's opinion" helps. Everyone sees it a little
different.
Denis
RV-6A 4,300 take offs, 4300 landings
On Jun 28, 2010, at 4:06 , N616TB wrote:
>
> I just had a conversation with a gentlemen from our airpark who said
> during the last flyin all the RV-s took off with some flaps. I had
> been told previously the flaps in the RV were drag flaps only and
> did no real good for lift. I also did my transition training a few
> years ago with Mike Seager and he did not have me using any flaps
> for take off. Since I have not tried it (yet) I was wondering if
> some of you are using flaps for takeoff and if you can tell any real
> difference. Would love to hear your thoughts.
>
> Tim Bryan
> RV-6 N616TB
> Frankston, Texas
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Using flaps for takeoff |
Tim:
I do not use flaps for takeoff. I was not able to to measure any difference
in takeoff with no flaps=2C 10 flaps=2C and 20 flaps. This was over 12.5
years ago.
I will use 10 flaps on SOFT grass fields. I do not think it reduces ground
roll on grass but I feel that it may reduce some of the weight on the mains
.
If anyone has some data that shows a difference=2C please share it. Also l
et us know what model RV=2C HP=2C and prop.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell=2C
2=2C381+ Flying Hours So. CA=2C USA
> From: N616TB(at)btsapps.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Mon=2C 28 Jun 2010 17:06:28 -0500
> Subject: RV-List: Using flaps for takeoff
>
>
> I just had a conversation with a gentlemen from our airpark who said duri
ng the last flyin all the RV-s took off with some flaps. I had been told p
reviously the flaps in the RV were drag flaps only and did no real good for
lift. I also did my transition training a few years ago with Mike Seager
and he did not have me using any flaps for take off. Since I have not trie
d it (yet) I was wondering if some of you are using flaps for takeoff and i
f you can tell any real difference. Would love to hear your thoughts.
>
> Tim Bryan
> RV-6 N616TB
> Frankston=2C Texas
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inb
ox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O
N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Cedar Rapids IA area airplane accomodations |
Hi all:
I'll be traveling to Cedar Rapids Iowa on the 3rd of July and plan to be
there until the 12th. I'd like to fly my airplane to the Cedar Rapids
Airport (KCID) because it's closest to where I want to be. I understand the
main runway is under construction and it's only a moderately friendly
airport (TSA security issues). I'll deal with that if I can find a place to
keep my airplane there. Anyone have some recommendations as to what FBO to
use there? Do they have some hangar space I can rent for 8-10 days while
I'm there? Or would it be best to go to one of the smaller, uncontrolled
outlying airports? If so which one? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Tarpon Sprgs, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Using flaps for takeoff |
On 6/28/2010 5:06 PM, N616TB wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: N616TB
>
> I just had a conversation with a gentlemen from our airpark who said during the
last flyin all the RV-s took off with some flaps. I had been told previously
the flaps in the RV were drag flaps only and did no real good for lift. I
also did my transition training a few years ago with Mike Seager and he did not
have me using any flaps for take off. Since I have not tried it (yet) I was
wondering if some of you are using flaps for takeoff and if you can tell any
real difference. Would love to hear your thoughts.
>
> Tim Bryan
> RV-6 N616TB
> Frankston, Texas
>
As others have said, they definitely add lift.
I came to a purchased -4 after ~200 hrs in a Swift, with flap settings
of full or none (never used for T/O). Never thought to try T/O flaps
through 7 years of flying that 1st -4, and through about 3 or 4 years of
flying the 2nd one. Then one day at a neighboring strip's flyin, I
forgot to retract them (full flaps) on T/O. I was off much quicker than
expected, and seemingly near pattern altitude before the end of the
strip. Felt like departing into a 20kt headwind. Since then I've played
with them several times, but just for fun. Even with only 160 hp, it
would take a really short strip to make flaps seem necessary. On the
obstacles issue, I'm no authority but I'd assume that the reason
flaps-down gets you over obstacles better is that you have an improved
climb *angle*.
Anyway, I can't see any reason to avoid using them on T/O, except the
surprise you might get if you aren't prepared to be off the ground so
quickly. Try it; you might like it. :-)
Charlie
Slobovia Outernational
flying purchased -4; -7 finish kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Cedar Rapids IA area airplane accomodations |
Hi all:
I'll be traveling to Cedar Rapids Iowa on the 3rd of July and plan to be
there until the 12th. I'd like to fly my airplane to the Cedar Rapids
Airport (KCID) because it's closest to where I want to be. I understand the
main runway is under construction and it's only a moderately friendly
airport (TSA security issues). I'll deal with that if I can find a place to
keep my airplane there. Anyone have some recommendations as to what FBO to
use there? Do they have some hangar space I can rent for 8-10 days while
I'm there? Or would it be best to go to one of the smaller, uncontrolled
outlying airports? If so which one? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Tarpon Sprgs, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Using flaps for takeoff |
Hi Gary,
Living 6 miles form Van and watching him fly frequently, I guess the
best evidence for using flaps is to watch him takeoff, almost always uses
flaps and consistently shorter takeoff roll then most others.
RV6 Flyer wrote:
> Tim:
>
> I do not use flaps for takeoff. I was not able to to measure any
> difference in takeoff with no flaps, 10 flaps, and 20 flaps. This was
> over 12.5 years ago.
>
> I will use 10 flaps on SOFT grass fields. I do not think it reduces
> ground roll on grass but I feel that it may reduce some of the weight
> on the mains.
>
> If anyone has some data that shows a difference, please share it.
> Also let us know what model RV, HP, and prop.
>
>
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> 2,381+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
>
>
> > From: N616TB(at)btsapps.com
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 17:06:28 -0500
> > Subject: RV-List: Using flaps for takeoff
> >
> >
> > I just had a conversation with a gentlemen from our airpark who said
> during the last flyin all the RV-s took off with some flaps. I had
> been told previously the flaps in the RV were drag flaps only and did
> no real good for lift. I also did my transition training a few years
> ago with Mike Seager and he did not have me using any flaps for take
> off. Since I have not tried it (yet) I was wondering if some of you
> are using flaps for takeoff and if you can tell any real difference.
> Would love to hear your thoughts.
> >
> > Tim Bryan
> > RV-6 N616TB
> > Frankston, Texas
> > =====================
> >======
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your
> inbox. Learn more.
> <http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1>
>
> *
>
>
> *
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Using flaps for takeoff |
POH for a C170B last produced in 1956? Surely you jest. It had a one
page 5X8" two sided FAA approved flight manual. You climb at Vx, which
for most planes is flaps and gear down. Best angle of climb, which is
what you need when obstacle is near. The FAA short field definition
rarely meets real world...paved runway, just short distance to obstacle.
Most real world short fields are also either soft or rough fields and
flaps are needed. Just my experience in 700 hours of flying 170B in
Alaska. Instructors teach what the FAA dictates to pass the test. I do
happen to have a C177B POH handy, which calls for 10 degrees for normal
takeoff and 15 degrees for max performance takeoff:
On 6/28/2010 5:24 PM, Scott wrote:
>
> I can see how 10 degrees might lessen the takeoff roll due to being
> able to lift off at a slightly lower airspeed. Can anyone explain why
> the obstacle clearance would be better with flaps down? There is more
> drag, so wouldn't rate of climb be slightly less? I suppose if you
> climb at just above stall speed, your ground speed would be lower,
> thus taking longer to get to that tree line? So, why do instructors
> teach flaps for soft field and no flaps for short field?
>
> What does the POH in the 170B say about soft and short field ops?
>
> Scott
>
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>> Well, I can tell you that in a Cessna 170B and up, flaps shorten
>> takeoff roll and clearing an obstacle until DA is more than 4500 ft.
>> The old ones used 20 degrees until the 172 added a notch for 10
>> degrees and that was what was used. The Mooney uses 15 degrees of
>> flaps for all takeoffs unless crosswind is too strong to handle with
>> flaps, regardless of DA.
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Gribble" <dave.gribble(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cedar Rapids IA area airplane accomodations |
Hi Dean - my plane is at KCID. Runway 9/27 is closed but the taxiway (now
8/26) is open and plenty log. 13/31 is also open, for now. It will close,
I think at the end of July. The runway thing is no problem, just no
taxiways.
PS Air is the more friendly FBO for small airplanes. I'd call them and ask
about hangar space. They are good people.
Good luck,
dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 8:40 PM
Subject: RV-List: Cedar Rapids IA area airplane accomodations
>
>
> Hi all:
>
> I'll be traveling to Cedar Rapids Iowa on the 3rd of July and plan to be
> there until the 12th. I'd like to fly my airplane to the Cedar Rapids
> Airport (KCID) because it's closest to where I want to be. I understand
> the
> main runway is under construction and it's only a moderately friendly
> airport (TSA security issues). I'll deal with that if I can find a place
> to
> keep my airplane there. Anyone have some recommendations as to what FBO
> to
> use there? Do they have some hangar space I can rent for 8-10 days while
> I'm there? Or would it be best to go to one of the smaller, uncontrolled
> outlying airports? If so which one? Any help would be greatly
> appreciated.
> Thanks.
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
> RV-6A N197DM
> Tarpon Sprgs, FL
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Odd running cylinder |
Intake leaks are easy to find. clean out your shop vac real good and
set it up to blow instead of suck.
Stick the hose in the intake and seal with shop rags. Spray soapy water
all over the intake system and look for bubbles. Two most common leaks
are the intake coupling hoses and the are where the intake comes out of
the oil pan ..... that's a swaged part, and to fix correctly requires a
swaging tool. I've seen them fixed with JB Weld to silicone sealer though.
Linn
RICHARD MILLER wrote:
>
> souunds like an intake leak
> rick
>
> --- On Mon, 6/28/10, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>
>
>> From: Ralph E. Capen <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
>> Subject: RV-List: Odd running cylinder
>> To: "rv-list"
>> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 9:12 AM
>> "Ralph E. Capen"
>>
>> Configuration reminder:
>> RV6A
>> SamJames cowl/plenum
>> AeroSportPower built XP IO360B1F6
>> 9.2:1 pistons
>> AFP injection (Flow balanced to .1gph per AFP
>> instructions)
>> LASAR ignition (MAP monitor on #4, CHT monitor on #3)
>> Vetterman Dual crossover exhaust with heater/mufflers
>> MT three blade MTV12B183-59 propellor
>>
>> During the first few minutes of operation (essentially
>> through climb-out and throttle-back), my number one cylinder
>> indicates a higher CHT and EGT.
>> Neither the CHT or EGT raise to a dangerous level and both
>> return to normal upon establishing cruise settings.
>> My number one cylinder also has an injector restrictor that
>> is 5% larger than the other three in order to balance fuel
>> flow for leaning purposes.
>>
>> This has occurred seven out of the last eight
>> flights. The missing one is kinda in the middle.
>>
>> Data capture is through an AFS3400EM at 1 second
>> intervals. I have data and graphs if someone wants to
>> look-see.
>>
>> I am wondering if I might have something in the fuel
>> injection distribution spider that is partially blocking one
>> line below a certain flow rate.
>>
>> Any other thoughts,
>> Ralph
>> RV6A N822AR @ N06 70 hours
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Forum -
>> FAQ,
>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>> List Contribution Web Site -
>> -Matt
>> Dralle, List Admin.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Hilger" <rvsixer(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Tires - Highest Quality...? |
The only flat tires I've had in 4,500 hours of flying were with Michelin
Airstop tubes. So much for "brand name" tubes. Both had flaws in the ru
bber where they failed. I've replaced both with Desser low-leakage tubes
but haven't had them on long enough to know if they are any better.
Mike Hilger
RV-6, N207AM, 920 hours
____________________________________________________________
Neulasta® (pegfilgrastim)
Visit the Official Website to Learn About Neulasta and Receive Info.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c2975fb206ced3fb3st01vuc
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Odd running cylinder |
| From: | Richard Martin <martinaerodrome(at)gmail.com> |
Ralph,
It is not onusual to have a experience such as you mention. On take off and
climb, the engine is at its highest power and the airplane is usually
flying slower than in cruise.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 11:12 AM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>
> Configuration reminder:
> RV6A
> SamJames cowl/plenum
> AeroSportPower built XP IO360B1F6
> 9.2:1 pistons
> AFP injection (Flow balanced to .1gph per AFP instructions)
> LASAR ignition (MAP monitor on #4, CHT monitor on #3)
> Vetterman Dual crossover exhaust with heater/mufflers
> MT three blade MTV12B183-59 propellor
>
> During the first few minutes of operation (essentially through climb-out
> and throttle-back), my number one cylinder indicates a higher CHT and EGT.
> Neither the CHT or EGT raise to a dangerous level and both return to normal
> upon establishing cruise settings.
> My number one cylinder also has an injector restrictor that is 5% larger
> than the other three in order to balance fuel flow for leaning purposes.
>
> This has occurred seven out of the last eight flights. The missing one is
> kinda in the middle.
>
> Data capture is through an AFS3400EM at 1 second intervals. I have data
> and graphs if someone wants to look-see.
>
> I am wondering if I might have something in the fuel injection distribution
> spider that is partially blocking one line below a certain flow rate.
>
> Any other thoughts,
> Ralph
> RV6A N822AR @ N06 70 hours
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rveighta(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Light |
Brian, I concur with your thoughts. Besides, the 912 IS a light sport, whic
h
appeals to guys like me who want to fly in the LSA=C2- category without a
3rd class medical. By rule, we can't fly at night.
By the way, are you related to Edward Chalmers Huffaker? He is from
my local area (Chuckey, TN) and did quite a bit of research on flight aroun
d
the late 1800's to early 1900's. He was with the Wright Bros at Kitty Hawk.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Huffaker" <bifft(at)xmission.com>
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 12:27:53 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Strobe Light
On Mon, 28 Jun 2010, Bruce Gray wrote:
> Walt,
>
> While you might not plan on doing any night flying, look a little
> farther into the future. When you might want to sell your baby. Most
> pilots fly at night, any airplane not equipped with nav/landing/strobe
> lights would place it at the bottom of a buyers list.
>
=C2-=C2-As a contrary viewpoint, build the plane you want, not what you
think
someone else might want. =C2-I don't fly at night or in bad weather, so I
'm
going no lights, no gyros. =C2-Save a few pounds and few hundred dollars.
I'm not building to sell, I'm building this plane for me.
=C2-=C2-Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com)
=C2-=C2-RV-8A 80091 fitting wings
=C2-=C2-1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying
===========
===========
MS -
===========
e -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wheeler North" <wnorth(at)sdccd.edu> |
Hey Reuven,
If you don't take off with the tires flat you will be less likely to land
with them that way...
;{)
Michelin leak stop tubes are junk. I've had one fail, one not leak in the
tire even though it had a split when I took it apart, and I've helped
several folks get rid of them by the side of the runway when theirs split a
seam at fly-ins.
Mostly I use flaps on take off when I'm practicing using flaps on take
off... it does bring the tail up quicker, however one blows through flap
speeds so quickly it is just one more thing to remember or forget.
One place it is really useful is when taking off in formation with a slower
plane. My first time at that was with a Lockheed L60 (think C206 mated with
a Sherman tank) at KOSH. We had a plan, however I hadn't completely thought
through what it meant to me in terms of throttle and speed. It was not an
issue, I just wasn't mentally ready for everything to happen so slow while
taking off at 1/3 throttle. Since then I've learned that some flaps do
reduce the tendency to catch up too fast but one really has to 'work' at
going slow enough to let the lead get airborne first.
Practicing a low to medium power take off has some value because most of us
have been taught to go full power in a go around. This is not needed and can
exacerbate things due to the pitching up moment that occurs in our short
airplanes when the throttle is slammed full at really slow speeds.
Lastly, grass runways get 10 deg of flaps mostly due to the fact that the 5"
tires are really small and tend to be draggy on soft or long grass. Anything
that can add lift will reduce tire into sod penetration. My guess is Van's
grass strip in soggy Portland has conditioned him into always using flaps.
Wheeler
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
Lov'en my Michelin Air Stop tubes!! Rarely have to add air instead of every
flight.
Dale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Meyette" <bmeyette(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | FS: RV-7A ~80% complete |
I've decided to sell my RV-7A project. It's just dragged on and on, and I've
lost interest in completing it. I have more interest in just flying my
Challenger II. I made 75 flights in it in 2009.
Engine is Subaru WRX STi 2.5 L supercharged. All the bugs are worked out of
the original Eggenfellner product. Most Eggenfellner-supplied components
have been replaced; SDS ECU, custom radiators, new wiring harness,
supercharger gearing. Engine runs great, and all it needs is probably some
more fine-tuning of the SDS ECU. John Moody in Australia has been flying his
awhile. Includes latest Gen3 rev 4 PSRU, installed. Includes MT7 electric
prop, installed.
Three EFIS systems installed - Blue Mountain "gold box" EFIS/One, GRT
Horizon, and Dynon D10. Blue Mountain AP installed. GRT EIS installed
Full Garmin stack trays installed & SL-30 included. Sandia TSOd encoder,
Tipup canopy completed but not final-installed.
Needs rear window installed, 1 panel each wing installed, top fuse panel
behind window and fwd of canopy installed (left out for wiring access). No
fiberglass work done.
Includes Advanced Flight Systems AoA, wig-wag HID lights, bulletproof
electrical system based on Bob Nuckolls' designs and Hyperion products, low
fuel warning, low coolant warning, fuel pressure warning, electric flaps,
electric trim, custom console, heater, Oregon Aero seats, Hooker harness,
Show Planes Flaps Positioning System, Infinity Aerospace grips, cabin
lighting, custom baggage compartment and other customizations (see my custom
page http://www.meyette.us/custom.htm ). Includes finishing kit and all
parts (except remaining Garmin components) to finish it. All gear mounted
and brakes installed. Van's front gear leg SB installed. Panel complete,
except Garmin wiring.
Empennage is done & final-installed. Flaps & ailerons all done. Wings not
installed.
And much more - this is a list off the top of my head of some of the main
components.
Entire project very extensively documented at
http://www.meyette.us/RV-7Ahome.htm
No effort or expense spared in doing everything RIGHT.
Only asking $45k for it - way less than cost and making the FWF essentially
FREE. Will also trade for an RV-12
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce B. Bell" <brucebell74(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Use of Fuel Boost Pump |
Hi All,
I turn on the fuel boost pump for all take offs and landings. Since I spend
most of my time in the traffic pattern the fuel boost pump is on most of the
time. I have lunch on Mondays with The RV Bunch and brought up the use of
the fuel boost pump. Three (RV-10, RV-9A and RV-7A) said they only use it to
start! So what do the rest of you do who have fuel injected engines? I have
92 hours and 332 landings in the log book. Thanks, Bruce Bell
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Use of Fuel Boost Pump |
| From: | Ollie Washburn <ollie6a(at)embarqmail.com> |
I always turn on the fuel pump for take-off as the fuel press is very low
without it. The eng performs the same when I have forgot it but I like that
little more insurance. Hardly ever turn on for landing.
Ollie 6A carb.
On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Bruce B. Bell wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> I turn on the fuel boost pump for all take offs and landings. Since I spend
> most of my time in the traffic pattern the fuel boost pump is on most of the
> time. I have lunch on Mondays with The RV Bunch and brought up the use of
> the fuel boost pump. Three (RV-10, RV-9A and RV-7A) said they only use it to
> start! So what do the rest of you do who have fuel injected engines? I have
> 92 hours and 332 landings in the log book. Thanks, Bruce Bell
>
>
--
>From Central Florida,
Ollie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Use of Fuel Boost Pump |
Lycoming fuel injection is different from Continental. Most low wing
aircraft with Lycoming(Bendix) fuel injection call for boost pump on for
takeoff and landing. TCM engines mixture is affected by boost on or
off, so they either use low boost or none for takeoff. Bendix fuel
injection is much less sensitive to input pressure, so the only downside
to using the boost pump is wear and tear on the boost pump.
The reason for the boost pump is in case the engine driven pump fails.
Whether you are confident that you could realize fuel was the problem
when the engine quit and switch the pump on before you impact is the
main issue. If you establish a routine to turn the pump off as soon as
you reach 1000AGL, you will minimize wear and tear on the boost pump.
Personally, I tend to think it is less critical for landing, but an
argument can be made either way.
On 6/30/2010 6:32 AM, Bruce B. Bell wrote:
>
>
> Hi All,
> I turn on the fuel boost pump for all take offs and landings. Since I
> spend most of my time in the traffic pattern the fuel boost pump is on
> most of the time. I have lunch on Mondays with The RV Bunch and
> brought up the use of the fuel boost pump. Three (RV-10, RV-9A and
> RV-7A) said they only use it to start! So what do the rest of you do
> who have fuel injected engines? I have 92 hours and 332 landings in
> the log book. Thanks, Bruce Bell
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Use of Fuel Boost Pump |
| From: | Richard Martin <martinaerodrome(at)gmail.com> |
Bruce,
I suggest Don Rivera @ Air Flow Performance. I have one of his boost pumps
with good history. His pumps are designed for both boost and continous
operation. When I built my RV8 ten plus years ago, I questioned him about
your concern. His comments are that the boost pumps are designed for
intermittant or continous operation. Also a side note, his pumps and fuel
injections systems are preferred by most of the Indy racers. Do not
hesitate to call him, he always has been very helpful.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Bruce B. Bell wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> I turn on the fuel boost pump for all take offs and landings. Since I spend
> most of my time in the traffic pattern the fuel boost pump is on most of the
> time. I have lunch on Mondays with The RV Bunch and brought up the use of
> the fuel boost pump. Three (RV-10, RV-9A and RV-7A) said they only use it to
> start! So what do the rest of you do who have fuel injected engines? I have
> 92 hours and 332 landings in the log book. Thanks, Bruce Bell
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Use of Fuel Boost Pump |
| From: | Dan Bergeron <dan.pat.b(at)gmail.com> |
BRUCE:
I ONLY USE THE FUEL BOOST PUMP WHEN STARTING THE ENGINE TO BRING THE FP UP
TO 20+ PSI BEFORE ENGAGING THE STARTER; OTHERWISE - I DON'T USE IT. AN OLD
TIMER ADVISED THAT THIS WAS THE WAY TO GO. BE INTERESTING TO KNOW WHAT
OTHER'S MIGHT BE DOING WITH THE BOOST PUMP.
DAN
RV-7A - N307TB
154 HOURS SINCE FIRST
FLIGHT ON 08/04/09
On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Bruce B. Bell wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> I turn on the fuel boost pump for all take offs and landings. Since I spend
> most of my time in the traffic pattern the fuel boost pump is on most of the
> time. I have lunch on Mondays with The RV Bunch and brought up the use of
> the fuel boost pump. Three (RV-10, RV-9A and RV-7A) said they only use it to
> start! So what do the rest of you do who have fuel injected engines? I have
> 92 hours and 332 landings in the log book. Thanks, Bruce Bell
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Dudley" <rhdudley1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Use of Fuel Boost Pump |
Hi Dan,
My procedure has been (in 2 235 Cherokees and my RV -6A): ON for startup
fuel pressure, OFF for taxi and runup, ON for takeoff, approach or
anything below 1000 feet, ON when changing tanks and ON as an emergency
procedure at any hint of engine misbehavior. My rationale for OFF for
taxi and rumup is confirmation of engine driven fuel pump operation; ON
for takeoff, approach or anything low level as backup of the engine
driven fuel pump; ON at any engine hiccup in case it resulted from an
engine driven fuel pump failure.
An experience that reinforced those procedures was a failed engine
driven pump on a 235 Cherokee after takeoff and at about 1000 feet when
I turned off the boost pump and the engine started to run down until I
turned the boost pump back on.
Regards,
Rich Dudley
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Bergeron
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Use of Fuel Boost Pump
BRUCE:
I ONLY USE THE FUEL BOOST PUMP WHEN STARTING THE ENGINE TO BRING THE
FP UP TO 20+ PSI BEFORE ENGAGING THE STARTER; OTHERWISE - I DON'T USE
IT. AN OLD TIMER ADVISED THAT THIS WAS THE WAY TO GO. BE INTERESTING
TO KNOW WHAT OTHER'S MIGHT BE DOING WITH THE BOOST PUMP.
DAN
RV-7A - N307TB
154 HOURS SINCE FIRST
FLIGHT ON 08/04/09
On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Bruce B. Bell
wrote:
Hi All,
I turn on the fuel boost pump for all take offs and landings. Since
I spend most of my time in the traffic pattern the fuel boost pump is on
most of the time. I have lunch on Mondays with The RV Bunch and brought
up the use of the fuel boost pump. Three (RV-10, RV-9A and RV-7A) said
they only use it to start! So what do the rest of you do who have fuel
injected engines? I have 92 hours and 332 landings in the log book.
Thanks, Bruce Bell
==========
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <av8er2fly(at)peoplepc.com> |
I had always assumed that the reason most people took off without flaps
is that the recommended flap speed of 100 is attained so quickly that
they need to be retracted almost imediatly, but don't see why you
couln't if you were right on the ball.
Mark Rose
RV8A 137MR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom & Cathy Ervin <tcervin(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Use of Fuel Boost Pump |
I never use my boost pump unless just befor starting and only if it's set for
more than 10 days. RV6-A 360-A1A and never had an issue.
Tom in Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Bergeron" <dan.pat.b(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 3:51:11 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: RV-List: Use of Fuel Boost Pump
BRUCE:
I ONLY USE THE FUEL BOOST PUMP WHEN STARTING THE ENGINE TO BRING THE FP UP
TO 20+ PSI BEFORE ENGAGING THE STARTER; OTHERWISE - I DON'T USE IT. AN OLD
TIMER ADVISED THAT THIS WAS THE WAY TO GO. BE INTERESTING TO KNOW WHAT
OTHER'S MIGHT BE DOING WITH THE BOOST PUMP.
DAN
RV-7A - N307TB
154 HOURS SINCE FIRST
FLIGHT ON 08/04/09
On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Bruce B. Bell wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> I turn on the fuel boost pump for all take offs and landings. Since I spend
> most of my time in the traffic pattern the fuel boost pump is on most of the
> time. I have lunch on Mondays with The RV Bunch and brought up the use of
> the fuel boost pump. Three (RV-10, RV-9A and RV-7A) said they only use it to
> start! So what do the rest of you do who have fuel injected engines? I have
> 92 hours and 332 landings in the log book. Thanks, Bruce Bell
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Use of Fuel Boost Pump |
Bruce:
I use Boost Pump to start=2C takeoff=2C climb=2C switch fuel tanks=2C anyti
me at or below 1=2C000 AGL=2C landing=2C and anytime taxiing in HOT weather
with a HOT engine.
Lycoming recommends can be found on the web in the Lycoming Flyer Key Repri
nts.
See:
http://www.lycoming.textron.com/support/tips-advice/key-reprints/pdfs/Key%2
0Operations.pdf (page 19 in the PDF document or page 53 as Lycoming number
s it)
>From the Lycoming Flyer link above:
Use of Fuel Boost Pumps with Lycoming Engines
As an engine manufacturer=2C we are frequently asked about the proper use o
f the fuel boost pump with our power plants. Although we can=92t pretend to
be an expert on the fuel boost pump itself=2C we have some positive recomm
endations concerning its use with our engines. Where a boost pump is provid
ed by the airframe manufacturer=2C and the airframe Pilot=92s Operating Han
dbook has a limited treatment of the use of the fuel boost pump=2C perhaps
this discussion can provide the necessary fuel boost pump information for t
he pilot in order to operate his or her engine as safely as possible.
It is necessary to supply the engine with a steady=2C uninterrupted flow of
fuel for all operating conditions. Entrapped air=2C temperature changes=2C
pressure drops=2C agitation in the fuel lines and other factors affect the
release of air and vapor from the fuel system. Under some circumstances wh
ere an engine-mounted fuel pump is provided=2C it may not be able to pump a
continuous fuel supply free of excessive vapor.
An effective continuous fuel supply is provided by use of the fuel boost pu
mp. As a general recommendation=2C the fuel boost pump should be used with
Lycoming engines in all conditions where there is any possibility of excess
ive vapor formation=2C or when a temporary cessation of fuel flow would int
roduce undesirable hazards. The conditions under which Lycoming recommends
operation of the fuel boost pump are as follows:
1. Every takeoff.
2. Climb after takeoff unless Pilot=92s Operating Handbook says it is not n
ecessary.
3. When switching fuel selectors from one separate fuel tank to another=2C
the fuel boost pump should be =93on=94 in the new tank until the operator i
s assured there will be no interruption of the fuel flow.
4. Every landing approach.
5. Any time the fuel pressure is fluctuating=2C and the engine is affected
by the fluctuation.
6. Hot weather=2C hot engine ground operation where fuel vapor problems cau
se erratic engine operation.
7. Some General Aviation aircraft require the use of the fuel boost pump du
ring high-altitude flight. This will be spelled out in the Pilot=92s Operat
ing Handbook.
8. If the engine-mounted fuel pump fails.
If the fuel boost pump is used during ground operation=2C don=92t fail to c
heck the condition of the engine-mounted fuel pump before takeoff by turnin
g the boost pump off briefly=2C and then back =93on=94 for takeoff. If the
engine-mounted pump has failed=2C it would be safer to know that on the gro
und rather than in the air when the fuel boost pump is turned =93off.=94
When in doubt=2C do the safest thing and use the fuel boost pump with Lycom
ing engines. Don=92t be =93stingy=94 with the boost pump. In most cases=2C
they last the overhaul life of the engine=2C and are then exchanged or over
hauled themselves. AS A REMINDER=2C the airframe Pilot=92s Operating Handbo
ok is the authority if boost pump information is spelled out in it.
A note on how long Van's boost pump for a carb will last: My first boost p
ump used as listed above lasted more than 10-years and around 2=2C100 hobbs
hours.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell=2C
2=2C381+ Flying Hours So. CA=2C USA
> From: brucebell74(at)sbcglobal.net
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Use of Fuel Boost Pump
> Date: Wed=2C 30 Jun 2010 08:32:07 -0500
>
>
>
> Hi All=2C
> I turn on the fuel boost pump for all take offs and landings. Since I spe
nd
> most of my time in the traffic pattern the fuel boost pump is on most of
the
> time. I have lunch on Mondays with The RV Bunch and brought up the use of
> the fuel boost pump. Three (RV-10=2C RV-9A and RV-7A) said they only use
it to
> start! So what do the rest of you do who have fuel injected engines? I h
ave
> 92 hours and 332 landings in the log book. Thanks=2C Bruce Bell
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inb
ox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O
N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Okay, so I'm sure this has been asked a few times already, and I should search
the archive, but what the heck, let's start a new thread.
I got my new tires today (Goodyear Custom Flight III, btw. Super sweet.) and started
looking for ways to get them on. I can really only see two ways to jack
the plane up easily with a normal jack.
1) I could put a short saw horse under the wing tie down and then put a hydraulic
jack on it and lift the side of the airplane up by this point. If I just gently
lift the plane by hand at this point, it seems like that's an awful lot
of weight to be lifting that far out on the wing. Can the spars really handle
this?
2) I could put a saw horse under the lower engine mount bolt to the firewall and
use a hydraulic jack to lift the plane up. This seems less scary, but I question
the shear strength of the bolt lifting all of the weight by this single
point.
What's the convential wisdom on jacking a tail dragger RV-8 to change the tires?
There has to be a way with out building some elaborate dolphin contraption.
BTW, with regards to my tire wear, since there's a fair amount of camber(?) afforded
by the Grove gear, I've got nearly all the wear on the outside 50% of the
tread. I could probably rotate them 180 degrees and get another 70 hours of
flight time, which wouldn't be bad for 22-year old stock kit tires from Van's
(remember, I swiped them from the RV-4 project after the brake incident). But,
I probably should have rotated them a bit sooner. While there's not cord showing,
the tread is gone. Live and learn; I'll be rotating these GYCFIII's in
a more timely manner. If I can double my wear life by rotating because of the
camber, I might get 1000 hours out of these babies! ;-)
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Lubing The Tail Wheel Fork Bearing... |
How the heck do you lube the bronze bearing on the tailwheel fork short of taking
the giant nut off. I lubed it up good during initial assembly, then at about
40 hours, it started to kind of stick, so I dissembled and lubed it again.
Now at 70 its doing it again. I foolishly put a Zerk fitting in the body of
the thing, thinking that next time I could just shoot some lube in there. Great
idea except that it doesn't work for such a tight fit.
Is there some "super lube" you can get that will last forever? I've used both
graphite wheel bearing grease and Aeroshell #6 grease.
Thanks!
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HCRV6(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Lubing The Tail Wheel Fork Bearing... |
Matt,
If you find some of that "super lube" stuff please let me know, otherwise accept
the fact that every oil change you need to disassemble the fork via the "giant
nut" and clean and lube the locking pin and spring and the bearing shaft. I
learned that the hard way when my locking tail wheel quit locking after about
150 hours. The pin had galled because of lack of lube and was stuck in the unlock
(retracted) position. The grease fitting that is installed is useless for
the reason you state.
Small price to pay for the many advantages of having the little wheel in back where
it belongs :-).
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 705 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 8:06:34 PM
Subject: RV-List: Lubing The Tail Wheel Fork Bearing...
How the heck do you lube the bronze bearing on the tailwheel fork short of taking
the giant nut off. I lubed it up good during initial assembly, then at about
40 hours, it started to kind of stick, so I dissembled and lubed it again. Now
at 70 its doing it again. I foolishly put a Zerk fitting in the body of the
thing, thinking that next time I could just shoot some lube in there. Great idea
except that it doesn't work for such a tight fit.
Is there some "super lube" you can get that will last forever? I've used both graphite
wheel bearing grease and Aeroshell #6 grease.
Thanks!
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HCRV6(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Jacking Point |
Matt,
When you lift the wing up at the tie down point to change a tire you are putting
approximately a one "g" load on the spar. Have you forgotten that these wings
have been tested to ten "g's"?
BTW, congrats on the Flight Custom III's, you're gonna like "em. And regardless,
you are going to have to rotate them every hundred hours or so to even out the
wear.
BBTW, when you jack up the wing it is going to want to shift toward the low side.
Best to use a floor jack on wheels and set it up so that it can roll toward
the low side maybe six inches or so as the high wing is raised.
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 705 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 7:59:42 PM
Subject: RV-List: Jacking Point
Okay, so I'm sure this has been asked a few times already, and I should search
the archive, but what the heck, let's start a new thread.
I got my new tires today (Goodyear Custom Flight III, btw. Super sweet.) and started
looking for ways to get them on. I can really only see two ways to jack
the plane up easily with a normal jack.
1) I could put a short saw horse under the wing tie down and then put a hydraulic
jack on it and lift the side of the airplane up by this point. If I just gently
lift the plane by hand at this point, it seems like that's an awful lot of
weight to be lifting that far out on the wing. Can the spars really handle this?
2) I could put a saw horse under the lower engine mount bolt to the firewall and
use a hydraulic jack to lift the plane up. This seems less scary, but I question
the shear strength of the bolt lifting all of the weight by this single point.
What's the convential wisdom on jacking a tail dragger RV-8 to change the tires?
There has to be a way with out building some elaborate dolphin contraption.
BTW, with regards to my tire wear, since there's a fair amount of camber(?) afforded
by the Grove gear, I've got nearly all the wear on the outside 50% of the
tread. I could probably rotate them 180 degrees and get another 70 hours of
flight time, which wouldn't be bad for 22-year old stock kit tires from Van's
(remember, I swiped them from the RV-4 project after the brake incident). But,
I probably should have rotated them a bit sooner. While there's not cord showing,
the tread is gone. Live and learn; I'll be rotating these GYCFIII's in a
more timely manner. If I can double my wear life by rotating because of the camber,
I might get 1000 hours out of these babies! ;-)
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jason Edwards <flyboyedwards(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lubing The Tail Wheel Fork Bearing... |
Hello all,
I bought my 4 last fall, and the tail wheel seemed fine. This spring it see
med to stick. I greased the zerk, and it didn't seem to help. I then again
greased it about a month later, figuring it may take a little time to work
the grease in. Now that I've done that, it seems to almost swivel too easy.
Perhaps in your situation, you may need a little more grease.
Keep in mind, that all greases are NOT compatible. Some harden when introdu
ced to another.
Just food for thought.
-
Jason Edwards
RV-4 flying
Richland Center, WI.
--- On Wed, 6/30/10, HCRV6(at)comcast.net wrote:
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net <HCRV6(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Lubing The Tail Wheel Fork Bearing...
Date: Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 10:39 PM
#yiv1863669556 p {margin:0;}
Matt,
If you find some of that "super lube" stuff please let me know, otherwise a
ccept the fact that every oil change you need to disassemble the fork via t
he "giant nut" and clean and lube the locking pin and spring and the bearin
g shaft.- I learned that the hard way when my locking tail wheel quit loc
king after about 150 hours.- The pin had galled because of lack of lube a
nd was stuck in the unlock (retracted) position.- The grease fitting that
is installed is useless for the reason you state.
Small price to pay for the many advantages of having the little wheel in ba
ck where it belongs :-).
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 705 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 8:06:34 PM
Subject: RV-List: Lubing The Tail Wheel Fork Bearing...
How the heck do you lube the bronze bearing on the tailwheel fork short of
taking the giant nut off. -I lubed it up good during initial assembly, th
en at about 40 hours, it started to kind of stick, so I dissembled and lube
d it again. -Now at 70 its doing it again. -I foolishly put a Zerk fitt
ing in the body of the thing, thinking that next time I could just shoot so
me lube in there. -Great idea except that it doesn't work for such a tigh
t fit. -
Is there some "super lube" you can get that will last forever? -I've used
both graphite wheel bearing grease and Aeroshell #6 grease.
Thanks!
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: Enjoying Tsp; - - - - - - - - - - &
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Jacking Point |
Matt-
I would hope that each wing could in fact support nine times this weight,
since by definition that is their job.
I screw a lifting eye into the tie down bracket and use a floor jack
mounted on a plastic crate to lift each side in turn. A pretty easy job.
-GV
In a message dated 6/30/2010 8:02:45 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
June 01, 2010 - July 01, 2010
RV-Archive.digest.vol-um