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August 02, 2011 - November 17, 2011

> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2011
From: Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com>
Subject: Re: Engine mounted.
On Tue, 2 Aug 2011, Charles Kuss wrote: > > Brian, > I assume that you have a prop governor adapter mounted on the engine? I think so. Don't really know engine stuff, but there is something squarish that had this line attached. >If so, you need to keep that oil line connected. The adapter and line >allows you to keep the plugs in the front of the crankshaft, which would >allow you to change to a constant speed prop at a later date, without >having to replace a punctured inner prop plug. That line and adapter will >allow any excess oil a way out of the nose of the crankshaft. I don't think I can get the old line back on, it interferes with the engine mount. However, it would probably be easier to make a new line than to do the crankshaft plug stuff. And, leave the the possibility of adding a constant speed prop at some point if I come into a lot of money or something. Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) RV-8A 80091 Thinking engine. 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine mounted.
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Date: Aug 02, 2011
Speaking from experience with my RV-4, the only thing I would have changed on it was to add a constant speed prop. I gave up a lot of top end speed and performance with the fixed pitch prop, and a lit of speed control on ascents and decents. I flew it for 8 years and kicked myself most the time for not going with constant speed. For me to change was a new engine (or at least crank shaft) new prop, and a new cowling, and paint for the cowl. That was just too much of a tear up for me. If I were to do it over again, I'd invest in a constant speed prop without question. It is added money up front, but it is a LOT cheaper than doing it later! YMMV -Mike Kraus Sent from my iPhone On Aug 2, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Brian Huffaker wrote: > > On Tue, 2 Aug 2011, Charles Kuss wrote: > >> >> Brian, >> I assume that you have a prop governor adapter mounted on the engine? > > I think so. Don't really know engine stuff, but there is something > squarish that had this line attached. > >> If so, you need to keep that oil line connected. The adapter and line >> allows you to keep the plugs in the front of the crankshaft, which would >> allow you to change to a constant speed prop at a later date, without >> having to replace a punctured inner prop plug. That line and adapter will >> allow any excess oil a way out of the nose of the crankshaft. > > I don't think I can get the old line back on, it interferes with the > engine mount. However, it would probably be easier to make a new line > than to do the crankshaft plug stuff. And, leave the the possibility of > adding a constant speed prop at some point if I come into a lot of money > or something. > > > Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) > RV-8A 80091 Thinking engine. > 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>
Date: Aug 02, 2011
Subject: Re: Engine mounted.
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Date: Aug 02, 2011
From: Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Engine mounted.
Brian,=0A Perhaps you could email me a photo of the area where the mount an d the oil line collide? Would a change of fitting at the governor adapter h elp ease this issue? Is the problematic line rigid stainless steel? Or is i t a flex hose? I am enclosing an attachment which details a small modificat ion you "might" have to make to the block off plate at the rear of the gove rnor adapter.=0ACharlie Kuss=0A=0A--- On Tue, 8/2/11, Brian Huffaker To: rv-list(at)matronics.com=0A> Dat Brian Huffaker =0A> =0A> On Tue, 2 Aug 2011, Charles K @yahoo.com>=0A> >=0A> > Brian,=0A> >- I assume that you have a prop gover nor adapter=0A> mounted on the engine?=0A> =0A> - I think so.- Don't re ally know engine stuff,=0A> but there is something=0A> squarish that had th is line attached.=0A> =0A> >If so, you need to keep that oil line connected . The=0A> adapter and line=0A> >allows you to keep the plugs in the front o f the=0A> crankshaft, which would=0A> >allow you to change to a constant sp eed prop at a later=0A> date, without=0A> >having to replace a punctured in ner prop plug. That=0A> line and adapter will=0A> >allow any excess oil a w ay out of the nose of the=0A> crankshaft.=0A> =0A> - I don't think I can get the old line back on, it=0A> interferes with the=0A> engine mount.- H owever, it would probably be easier to=0A> make a new line=0A> than to do t he crankshaft plug stuff.---And,=0A> leave the the possibility of=0A> adding a constant speed prop at some point if I come into a=0A> lot of mon ey=0A> or something.=0A> =0A> =0A> - Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@xmission .com)=0A> - RV-8A 80091 Thinking engine.=0A> - 1/4 Starduster II N23UT ======================0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2011
From: Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com>
Subject: Re: Engine mounted.
On Tue, 2 Aug 2011, Charles Kuss wrote: > Brian, > Perhaps you could email me a photo of the area where the mount and the >oil line collide? Would a change of fitting at the governor adapter help >ease this issue? Is the problematic line rigid stainless steel? Or is it >a flex hose? I am enclosing an attachment which details a small >modification you "might" have to make to the block off plate at the rear >of the governor adapter. The line is rigid stainless steel. It ran under the right side cylinders, then around to the back. It went through a space just above the lower right mount point, and would hit the tube going between that and the upper right side mount. I can take a picture tonight. Thanks for that document, I could try to make a cover plate like the one shown (or just buy if not too expensive). I note that on the starduster, there is a similar cover plate, with a fitting in the center that then is connected by a hose to the inverted oil setup. Presumably some kind of gasket is required to bolt on the plate, the engine I have does have mounting studs for the prop govenor. As for the other comments, while the speed range of an RV really does call for a constant speed, I can't justify the extra $5-10k right now. I'm hoping fly with only another $10k or so spent, still need to buy instruments, radios, exhaust, magnetos, and probably other stuff I'm not remebering. Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) RV-8A 80091 Thinking about engine. 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2011
From: Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Engine mounted.
Brian,=0A I look forward to seeing that photo. Please also take photos of t he area on the rear of the engine where the SS line attaches, and your blan king plate.=0A To ease the interference issue, you could simply omit the go vernor adapter [and the shaft/gear inside it], install the block off plate and gasket directly to the rear of the accessory housing. You can simply dr ill and tap for a 45 or 90 degree fitting [whichever works best for your ap plication] anywhere on the new blanking plate. FYI, you can make your own g asket, or simply buy one.=0ACheck out the two photos in the link below. The y show the rear of a Lycoming engine with a prop governor [flaked off black paint] installed. The governor adapter is the part [better view in the bot tom photo] which goes between the black governor and the accessory housing. See=0A=0Ahttp://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=389128&pos tcount=1=0A=0AThe gray part with the steel AN816 [straight] fitting point ing to the right, is where your SS tube is supposed to attach. If you have interference issues, you could do any or any combination of the following t o cure the problem.=0A#1- Replace the AN816 [straight] fitting with an AN 82 [90 degree] or AN823 [45 degree] fitting.=0A#2- Obtain a new, longer p iece of SS tube and bend it as required to make it work. This is experiment al aviation, after all.=0A#3- Replace the SS tube with a fire sleeved fle xible oil hose. This is even approved by Lycoming for certified aircraft. S ee Lycoming SI 1435. [Brian, I've sent a copy of SI 1435 to you]=0A=0AFYI L ycoming SI1462A also shows a nice drawing of the rear of the engine, with a governor adapter & blanking plate. It the one on the right, on page three. See=0A=0Ahttp://www.lycoming.textron.com/support/publications/service-inst ructions/pdfs/SI1462A.pdf=0A=0ACharlie=0A=0A--- On Tue, 8/2/11, Brian Huffa ker <bifft(at)xmission.com> wrote:=0A=0A> From: Brian Huffaker <bifft@xmission .com>=0A> Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine mounted.=0A> To: "Charles Kuss" =0A> Cc: rv-list(at)matronics.com=0A> Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2011, 2:47 PM=0A> On Tue, 2 Aug 2011, Charles Kuss=0A> wrote:=0A> =0A> > B rian,=0A> > Perhaps you could email me a photo of the area where=0A> the mo unt and the=0A> >oil line collide? Would a change of fitting at the=0A> gov ernor adapter help=0A> >ease this issue? Is the problematic line rigid=0A> stainless steel? Or is it=0A> >a flex hose? I am enclosing an attachment wh ich details=0A> a small=0A> >modification you "might" have to make to the b lock off=0A> plate at the rear=0A> >of the governor adapter.=0A> =0A> - T he line is rigid stainless steel.- It ran=0A> under the right side=0A> cy linders, then around to the back.- It went through a=0A> space just above =0A> the lower right mount point, and would hit the tube going=0A> between that and=0A> the upper right side mount.- I can take a picture=0A> tonigh t.=0A> =0A> - Thanks for that document, I could try to make a=0A> cover p late like the one=0A> shown (or just buy if not too expensive).- I note t hat=0A> on the starduster,=0A> there is a similar cover plate, with a fitti ng in the=0A> center that then is=0A> connected by a hose to the inverted o il setup.-=0A> Presumably some kind of=0A> gasket is required to bolt on the plate, the engine I have=0A> does have=0A> mounting studs for the prop govenor.=0A> =0A> - As for the other comments, while the speed range of =0A> an RV really does=0A> call for a constant speed, I can't justify the e xtra $5-10k=0A> right now.=0A> I'm hoping fly with only another $10k or so spent, still=0A> need to buy=0A> instruments, radios, exhaust, magnetos, an d probably other=0A> stuff I'm not=0A> remebering.=0A> =0A> - Brian Huffa ker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com)=0A> - RV-8A 80091- Thinking about engine .=0A> - 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying=0A> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2011
From: Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com>
Subject: Re: Engine mounted.
On Tue, 2 Aug 2011, Charles Kuss wrote: > Brian, > I look forward to seeing that photo. Please also take photos of the area >on the rear of the engine where the SS line attaches, and your blanking >plate. http://www.xmission.com/~bifft/img_2329.jpg this shows the line as close as I can get to where I took it off of. It was attached to where the red plug now is. Looking at it, it may be an aluminum line instead of stainless. The fittings are all Al. http://www.xmission.com/~bifft/img_2326.jpg shows the governor adaptor. No blocking plate, whoever pickled the engine took off the accessories and then covered the holes with aluminum tape. > To ease the interference issue, you could simply omit the governor >adapter [and the shaft/gear inside it], install the block off plate and >gasket directly to the rear of the accessory housing. You can simply >drill and tap for a 45 or 90 degree fitting [whichever works best for >your application] anywhere on the new blanking plate. FYI, you can make >your own gasket, or simply buy one. That would probably be best, why carry the weight if I'm not going to use it. Could even T off of that line and hook it up to the inverted oil seperator like on the Starduster. As for making a gasket, I suppose the auto form-a-gasket stuff would work? >Check out the two photos in the link below. They show the rear of a >Lycoming engine with a prop governor [flaked off black paint] installed. >The governor adapter is the part [better view in the bottom photo] which >goes between the black governor and the accessory housing. See >http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=389128&postcount= 1 >The gray part with the steel AN816 [straight] fitting pointing to the >right, is where your SS tube is supposed to attach. If you have >interference issues, you could do any or any combination of the following >to cure the problem. yep, except the fitting is Al instead of steel. >#1- Replace the AN816 [straight] fitting with an AN82 [90 degree] or > AN823 [45 degree] fitting. >#2- Obtain a new, longer piece of SS tube and bend it as required to mak e > it work. This is experimental aviation, after all. this would probably be the easiest, cheapest and lightest way to go. Be a bit tricky to route around the mount, I know the engine moves alot on shutdown and startup. >#3- Replace the SS tube with a fire sleeved flexible oil hose. This is > even approved by Lycoming for certified aircraft. See Lycoming SI > 1435. [Brian, I've sent a copy of SI 1435 to you] Thanks for all the help, this is clearing up my questions very well. Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) RV-8A 80091 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying

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Date: Aug 02, 2011
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: Engine mounted.
Keep in mind that aluminum fittings are banned by AD as is an aluminum oil line. You have to have either aircraft hose or stainless line with steel fittings. Yeah, I know all the arguments on ADs. This is one you don't want to ignore, as you can lose all the engine oil in a flash if it breaks. On 8/2/2011 6:58 PM, Brian Huffaker wrote: > On Tue, 2 Aug 2011, Charles Kuss wrote: > >> Brian, >> I look forward to seeing that photo. Please also take photos of the area >> on the rear of the engine where the SS line attaches, and your blanking >> plate. > http://www.xmission.com/~bifft/img_2329.jpg > this shows the line as close as I can get to where I took it off of. It > was attached to where the red plug now is. Looking at it, it may be an > aluminum line instead of stainless. The fittings are all Al. > > http://www.xmission.com/~bifft/img_2326.jpg > shows the governor adaptor. No blocking plate, whoever pickled the engine > took off the accessories and then covered the holes with aluminum tape. > /font>
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Date: Aug 02, 2011
From: Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Engine mounted.
Kelly gives good advice here. Lycoming went to the SS tube because of failures of the old, aluminum tube. Charlie --- On Tue, 8/2/11, Kelly McMullen wrote: > From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine mounted. > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2011, 10:36 PM > Kelly McMullen > > Keep in mind that aluminum fittings are banned by AD as is > an aluminum oil line. You have to have either aircraft hose > or stainless line with steel fittings. Yeah, I know all the > arguments on ADs. This is one you don't want to ignore, as > you can lose all the engine oil in a flash if it breaks. > > > On 8/2/2011 6:58 PM, Brian Huffaker wrote: > > On Tue, 2 Aug 2011, Charles Kuss wrote: > > > >> Brian, > >> I look forward to seeing that photo. Please also > take photos of the area > >> on the rear of the engine where the SS line > attaches, and your blanking > >> plate. > > http://www.xmission.com/~bifft/img_2329.jpg > > this shows the line as close as I can get to where I > took it off of. It > > was attached to where the red plug now is. > Looking at it, it may be an > > aluminum line instead of stainless. The fittings > are all Al. > > > > http://www.xmission.com/~bifft/img_2326.jpg > > shows the governor adaptor. No blocking plate, > whoever pickled the engine > > took off the accessories and then covered the holes > with aluminum tape. > > /font> > > Forum - > FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2011
From: Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Engine mounted.
Brian, Replace that aluminum fitting with the correct steel one. The fittings at both ends should be made of steel. FYI, I may have given you a bum steer regarding the part numbers for the fittings. The AN816, AN822 & AN823 fittings are NPT to flare. Check the fitting in the governor adapter. It may well be straight thread, in which case, the numbers above are not correct. Best to go by the part numbers listed in the two Service Instructions I included in the earlier email. You will note that the drawing in one of the SIs I sent, shows a 45 degree fitting pointed up. That may well be what you need, with a modified SS tube. FYI, it is VERY important to install the Adel clamps as shown in the SI to support the SS tube. Failure to install them could cause the tube to fail, from excessive vibration. Charlie --- On Tue, 8/2/11, Brian Huffaker wrote: > From: Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine mounted. > To: "Charles Kuss" > Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2011, 9:58 PM > On Tue, 2 Aug 2011, Charles Kuss > wrote: > > > Brian, > > I look forward to seeing that photo. Please also take > photos of the area > >on the rear of the engine where the SS line attaches, > and your blanking > >plate. > > http://www.xmission.com/~bifft/img_2329.jpg > this shows the line as close as I can get to where I took > it off of. It > was attached to where the red plug now is. Looking at > it, it may be an > aluminum line instead of stainless. The fittings are > all Al. > > http://www.xmission.com/~bifft/img_2326.jpg > shows the governor adaptor. No blocking plate, > whoever pickled the engine > took off the accessories and then covered the holes with > aluminum tape. > > > To ease the interference issue, you could simply omit > the governor > >adapter [and the shaft/gear inside it], install the > block off plate and > >gasket directly to the rear of the accessory housing. > You can simply > >drill and tap for a 45 or 90 degree fitting [whichever > works best for > >your application] anywhere on the new blanking plate. > FYI, you can make > >your own gasket, or simply buy one. > > That would probably be best, why carry the weight if I'm > not going to use > it. Could even T off of that line and hook it up to > the inverted oil > seperator like on the Starduster. As for making a > gasket, I suppose the > auto form-a-gasket stuff would work? > > >Check out the two photos in the link below. They show > the rear of a > >Lycoming engine with a prop governor [flaked off black > paint] installed. > >The governor adapter is the part [better view in the > bottom photo] which > >goes between the black governor and the accessory > housing. See > > >http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=389128&postcount=1 > > >The gray part with the steel AN816 [straight] fitting > pointing to the > >right, is where your SS tube is supposed to attach. If > you have > >interference issues, you could do any or any > combination of the following > >to cure the problem. > > > yep, except the fitting is Al instead of steel. > > > >#1 Replace the AN816 [straight] fitting with an AN82 > [90 degree] or > > AN823 [45 degree] fitting. > >#2 Obtain a new, longer piece of SS tube and bend it > as required to make > > it work. This is experimental aviation, > after all. > > this would probably be the easiest, cheapest and > lightest way to go. Be > a bit tricky to route around the mount, I know the engine > moves alot on > shutdown and startup. > > >#3 Replace the SS tube with a fire sleeved flexible > oil hose. This is > > even approved by Lycoming for certified > aircraft. See Lycoming SI > > 1435. [Brian, I've sent a copy of SI 1435 > to you] > > Thanks for all the help, this is clearing up my > questions very well. > > Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) > RV-8A 80091 > 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying >
face="courier new,courier"> > > Forum - > FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > >
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2011
From: Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com>
Subject: Re: Engine mounted.
On Tue, 2 Aug 2011, Charles Kuss wrote: > > Kelly gives good advice here. Lycoming went to the SS tube because of >failures of the old, aluminum tube. All the more reason to replace. Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) RV-8A 80091 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 Cowl Vents
At 07:04 AM 8/8/2011 Monday, you wrote: >Dear Fellow RV-8 Builders, I now have 13 hours on my 0360 Lyc. Still having # 1 CHT get too hot before TOC. So I have to throttle back and stairstep up to altitude. Temps should be stable by now with 13 hours. So I bought from Avery the bottom cowl louvers to improve airflow. Talked to a couple RV-8 drivers both said the vents lowered CHTs about 20 degrees. Question is how is best to mount? What shape and size hole(s)? The bottom of the vent plate is flat while the cowl bottoms have compound curve surfaces. What is best for looks and effectiveness and strength? Hope to hear from someone, Bill of Georgia N288WP Hi Bill, I have an IO-390 210hp on my RV-8 with the standard cowling. I don't have any trouble with CHT's (generally well under 400f) and my oil temps are generally in the low 180'sf. If I take off on a hot day at sea level and climb hard, I can get the CHT on the hot cylinder to go over 400 but by that time I'm at 8000 ft and simply decreasing my angle slightly will bring it back down. The only "non-stock" aspect of my installation is the giant oil cooler I added to the back of the baffle. Its about twice the size of the stock one. Before you start cutting holes in your cowling, you might want to do some more investigation into the cause of the overheating. Might be indicative of something else. Plugged oil line to that cylinder, maybe a blocked fuel injector on that cylinder? Try swapping the injectors between the hottest and coolest cylinder and see what impact this has on the CHT. Here's some info on the oil cooler installation that has worked well for me: http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV8&project=638&category=2972&log=90253&row=84 Matt - Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2011
Subject: Re: RV-8 Cowl Vents
From: thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com>
Matt: I just made a simple mod that you should try before doing anything drastic like cutting holes in the cowl. On my 6A I duct taped on 2 wedges cut out of wooden 2x2 that were about 1.5" wide from the narrow edge back to the 3/8" wide trailing edge. They are about 5" long. They were nearly identical with the plastic rudder trim wedges that Avery sells. I put these on the bottom of the cowl where the exhaust pipes come out with the wide edge flush with the aft edge of the cowl. I saw an immediate drop in oil temps of at least 10 deg. F and probably 20 F. Last week I replaced them with 2 of the Avery rudder trim tabs, painted to match the plane and curved a bit to match the shape of the cowl. I think these work the same way the louvers work: The air going past the trailing edge causes a slight decrease in pressure that helps draw more air through the cowl. I only had to drill 4 screw holes in the cowl to mount them "permanently". I can remove them any time I want just by taking the screws out.. The cowl is otherwise a stock Van's cowl. I need to do some more flying (I'm in Tucson where there's plenty of hi temps this time of year) to test this, but the few flights I have done are very encouraging. I'll send pictures if you like. -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 2011
From: John Eliel <jseliel(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-10 empennage kit for sale
RVers - I have an RV-10 empennage kit in the crate(s) that I have inventoried, but not begun construction on, and which I have decided to sell. Included with it is a set of axle extensions made by Don MacDonald. I am asking $3200, and am located in northwest Washington. Call or email with any questions. Contact info: jseliel(at)gmail.com 360-681-3927 John Eliel ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 13, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Warning - New Bose Line Power Cables Only 3' Long!
Just a heads up to those installing or planning on installing Bose X or A20 Active NR headsets using the inline power jacks. Specifically these units: http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/shop_online/headphones/aviation_headsets/accessories/headset_installkit_acc.jsp They now come with only 3 feet of cable! Three years ago they came with 6 feet of cable and I thought at the time that 6 feet seemed a little short. Now 3 feet? What idiot penny pincher in Bose marketing decided "three feet should be plenty". Here's quote from the Bose web page above: "Three-foot wiring harness with six pin female connector allows for *placement in locations throughout aircraft*." WTF? On what planet will a 3-foot hardness reach "locations throughout the aircraft". That's just plain stupid. If these were third rate, el-cheapo headsets, I'd write it off to penny pinching, but for a >$1000 product that you then have to spend an additional $32 for an installation cable, cheaping out on the cable length is just simply unacceptable. I have the jacks mounted in the center of the RV-8, and the cables don't even reach to the righthand control console. What does Bose expect people to do; splice the wire? That's ridiculous! What would somebody installing in the back seats of a 4 or 6 place airplane do? Of course I wrote a scathing email to Bose Support just now. I'm sure they will write back with "for most of our customers, three feet is sufficient". Given this direction within Bose, I'd definitely consider the new Sennheiser S1 if I had to do it over again. Additionally, the Sennheiser's Bluetooth supports the A2DP, AVRCP STEREO profiles. The Bose A20's Bluetooth does NOT support stereo. It must have been the same marketing moron that dictated 3' cables that decided not to include stereo Bluetooth profiles. Unbelievable. Matt - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Warning - New Bose Line Power Cables Only 3' Long!
From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)newwavecomm.net>
Date: Aug 13, 2011
My $200 Stereo Peltor headset cables are plenty long :-) Sent from my Verizon iPhone On Aug 13, 2011, at 8:12 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > > Just a heads up to those installing or planning on installing Bose X or A20 Active NR headsets using the inline power jacks. Specifically these units: > > http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/shop_online/headphones/aviation_headsets/accessories/headset_installkit_acc.jsp > > They now come with only 3 feet of cable! Three years ago they came with 6 feet of cable and I thought at the time that 6 feet seemed a little short. Now 3 feet? What idiot penny pincher in Bose marketing decided "three feet should be plenty". Here's quote from the Bose web page above: "Three-foot wiring harness with six pin female connector allows for *placement in locations throughout aircraft*." WTF? On what planet will a 3-foot hardness reach "locations throughout the aircraft". That's just plain stupid. > > If these were third rate, el-cheapo headsets, I'd write it off to penny pinching, but for a >$1000 product that you then have to spend an additional $32 for an installation cable, cheaping out on the cable length is just simply unacceptable. > > I have the jacks mounted in the center of the RV-8, and the cables don't even reach to the righthand control console. What does Bose expect people to do; splice the wire? That's ridiculous! What would somebody installing in the back seats of a 4 or 6 place airplane do? > > Of course I wrote a scathing email to Bose Support just now. I'm sure they will write back with "for most of our customers, three feet is sufficient". > > Given this direction within Bose, I'd definitely consider the new Sennheiser S1 if I had to do it over again. Additionally, the Sennheiser's Bluetooth supports the A2DP, AVRCP STEREO profiles. The Bose A20's Bluetooth does NOT support stereo. It must have been the same marketing moron that dictated 3' cables that decided not to include stereo Bluetooth profiles. Unbelievable. > > Matt > > > - > Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle > RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log > http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 2011
From: Tom & Cathy Ervin <tcervin(at)embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: Warning - New Bose Line Power Cables Only 3' Long!
Matt, Don't forget lightSpeed. I have had very good luck with the 2 sets I've purchased....no problems, light weight and generous trade up program. Tom in Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com> Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 9:12:08 PM Subject: RV-List: Warning - New Bose Line Power Cables Only 3' Long! Just a heads up to those installing or planning on installing Bose X or A20 Active NR headsets using the inline power jacks. Specifically these units: http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/shop_online/headphones/aviation_headsets/accessories/headset_installkit_acc.jsp They now come with only 3 feet of cable! Three years ago they came with 6 feet of cable and I thought at the time that 6 feet seemed a little short. Now 3 feet? What idiot penny pincher in Bose marketing decided "three feet should be plenty". Here's quote from the Bose web page above: "Three-foot wiring harness with six pin female connector allows for *placement in locations throughout aircraft*." WTF? On what planet will a 3-foot hardness reach "locations throughout the aircraft". That's just plain stupid. If these were third rate, el-cheapo headsets, I'd write it off to penny pinching, but for a >$1000 product that you then have to spend an additional $32 for an installation cable, cheaping out on the cable length is just simply unacceptable. I have the jacks mounted in the center of the RV-8, and the cables don't even reach to the righthand control console. What does Bose expect people to do; splice the wire? That's ridiculous! What would somebody installing in the back seats of a 4 or 6 place airplane do? Of course I wrote a scathing email to Bose Support just now. I'm sure they will write back with "for most of our customers, three feet is sufficient". Given this direction within Bose, I'd definitely consider the new Sennheiser S1 if I had to do it over again. Additionally, the Sennheiser's Bluetooth supports the A2DP, AVRCP STEREO profiles. The Bose A20's Bluetooth does NOT support stereo. It must have been the same marketing moron that dictated 3' cables that decided not to include stereo Bluetooth profiles. Unbelievable. Matt - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Bucking Bar Recommendation...
Dear Listers, After nearly 23 years of building metal airplanes on and off, I finally came across a really nice bucking bar. The part number details are below and I've attached a picture of it with the optional 6.5" Dolly Shank attached (recommended). The handle has a vibration absorbing mechanism inside and it makes riveting almost a pleasure. It really works good. I was truly amazed at how much more comfortable it is riveting using the tool. If you've got even a modest amount of riveting left to do on your project, surf over to the US Tool web site and order up one. You won't be sorry! I don't get any kick back (pun intended) from US Tool; I'm just a very stratified customer. US Tool - TP111R - Recoilless Bucking Bar - All Steel: https://www.ustool.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p 41 US Tool - 31021-3 - 6.5" Dolly Shank: https://www.ustool.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p 80 Matt - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill Judge <bjudge(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 14, 2011
Subject: Whirlwind 200 RV Prop experience
Greetings, I've been running a 200 RV since about April of 2009. I had a sensenich fixed pitch before that and the WW has been a really welcomed improvement in economy and cockpit noise. I went from 2500 RPM/7.5 gph to 2000 RPM/6.5 gph doing 160 knots which made long range trips much more comfortable from a fuel reserve and noise perspective. I may not have made the trip to Aruba 2 years ago had I not make the upgrade so all in all this is a fantastic prop. Last November on a 4 hr XC I noticed few very small black spots on the windscreen and I figured that it was oil from my front seal which has leaked before but it was actually grease from the prop hub. This gradually got worse, to the point I was cleaning the windscreen after each flight, so after my round trip across the country in July I decided to pull it off and send it back for service. TT in service was 315 hrs. I called Ameritech (American Propeller) who sold me the prop. Todd there said it needed to be resealed and wasn't under warranty any longer. The charges would be anywhere from $874 for a basic reseal to $1408 for an overhaul. This included them coming and picking up the prop at Gillespie, my home field. Just before Ameritech came to pick the prop up I called the WW factory in OH and they wanted to see the prop. They offered to zero time the propeller if I would pay round trip shipping. So I shipped the prop to Ohio, they turned it around in less than a week and I paid $292 for shipping and about $100 for packing supplies on this end to package the prop. I asked if WW could repaint the blades while it was getting serviced and they said either way they would polish the nickel leading edges but it would be ~$1400 and a 4 week delay to paint the blades. My blades are in pretty good shape so I opted to just run with the way they are now. As an aside, part of Ameritech's $1408 overhaul would have included getting the blades sanded down and repainted. After they did the work on the prop I asked if there was any reason that it started leaking, they didn't see any reason but they have changed to a different type of O-ring and that may make a difference. I got the prop and I had forgotten how great the prop looks when the leading edge is polished up. It look fantastic and is now back at zero time. Anyway, summary: Whirlwind in Ohio has opted to stand behind their product even though it was out of warranty, which I thought was commendable. VR, Bill Judge N84WJ, RV-8, 653 hrs rv-8.blogspot.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 2011
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Warning - New Bose Line Power Cables Only 3' Long!
Matt, I'd have to agree that the lack of A2DP profile was a stupid move. That said, I have a PMA8000BT audio panel (for ISO/Crew/All seats) and also a pair of Belkin Aircast Auto pucks for Bluetooth for the rear seat users. Those Belkin devices for under $80 are a great way to go for bluetooth stereo to your headsets. I'm not a fan of cords of any type, but honestly I don't see much value in a bluetooth headset unless you typically fly alone. Most people will want to share the music and share the experience, and that's much easier with a bluetooth intercom, or that belkin adapter plugged into your standard intercom. So I'd just go down that route and you'll probably be happier. The only pain with the Belkin way would be if you frequently use the cellphone and also music...if you do that, I'd recommend the intercom route instead. I'd also agree that 3' is kind of short for those install cables, and 6' would be a bit more practical, but considering that most people will install them right next to existing jacks, I can see why they go that route. Personally, I'd rather see them sold both ways, with a $5 upcharge for the 6' cord. I don't know that any longer than that is good though....those wires are awfully thin to run with the rest of the wire runs. In my plane, I only needed 12", so 3' was even overkill. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD On 8/13/2011 8:12 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle > > > Just a heads up to those installing or planning on installing Bose X > or A20 Active NR headsets using the inline power jacks. Specifically > these units: > > http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/shop_online/headphones/aviation_headsets/accessories/headset_installkit_acc.jsp > > They now come with only 3 feet of cable! Three years ago they came > with 6 feet of cable and I thought at the time that 6 feet seemed a > little short. Now 3 feet? What idiot penny pincher in Bose > marketing decided "three feet should be plenty". Here's quote from > the Bose web page above: "Three-foot wiring harness with six pin > female connector allows for *placement in locations throughout > aircraft*." WTF? On what planet will a 3-foot hardness reach > "locations throughout the aircraft". That's just plain stupid. > > If these were third rate, el-cheapo headsets, I'd write it off to > penny pinching, but for a>$1000 product that you then have to spend > an additional $32 for an installation cable, cheaping out on the > cable length is just simply unacceptable. > > I have the jacks mounted in the center of the RV-8, and the cables > don't even reach to the righthand control console. What does Bose > expect people to do; splice the wire? That's ridiculous! What would > somebody installing in the back seats of a 4 or 6 place airplane do? > > Of course I wrote a scathing email to Bose Support just now. I'm > sure they will write back with "for most of our customers, three feet > is sufficient". > > Given this direction within Bose, I'd definitely consider the new > Sennheiser S1 if I had to do it over again. Additionally, the > Sennheiser's Bluetooth supports the A2DP, AVRCP STEREO profiles. The > Bose A20's Bluetooth does NOT support stereo. It must have been the > same marketing moron that dictated 3' cables that decided not to > include stereo Bluetooth profiles. Unbelievable. > > Matt > > > - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log > http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing > Mishap... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Paint air water separator
Date: Aug 15, 2011
For those of you doing your own painting, attached photo is a water separator that I find to work well. When painting I add a few blocks of ice to the water. In the photo the red hose is air in, the orange hose is air out. The drain valve is connected at the bottom of the vertical PVC pipe. The vertical pipe acts as a water collector. Carl ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 2011
From: Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Paint air water separator
That's pretty cool, Carl. I have one caveat, though. PVC has been known to explode and the shards aren't visible in X-rays. I'd use copper for the riser. Pax, Ed Holyoke On 8/15/2011 4:18 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote: > > For those of you doing your own painting, attached photo is a water > separator that I find to work well. When painting I add a few blocks > of ice to the water. In the photo the red hose is air in, the orange > hose is air out. The drain valve is connected at the bottom of the > vertical PVC pipe. The vertical pipe acts as a water collector. > > Carl > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Luckey" <JLuckey(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Paint air water separator
Date: Aug 15, 2011
That's pretty cool :)! It's difficult to see in the picture but I assume that the condenser coil's output intersects the vertical pipe a few inches from its bottom? Questions: 1. how much water is collected after an hour of spraying? 2. What part of the country are you in? 3. relative humidity, temp/dew point spread? 4. Any idea what the pressure drop thru the device is? (tank pressure vs gun pressure?) 5. How many pounds of ice do you typically use & how long does it last at what ambient temp? I know, waaaay too many questions. _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 16:18 Subject: RV-List: Paint air water separator For those of you doing your own painting, attached photo is a water separator that I find to work well. When painting I add a few blocks of ice to the water. In the photo the red hose is air in, the orange hose is air out. The drain valve is connected at the bottom of the vertical PVC pipe. The vertical pipe acts as a water collector. Carl ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Paint air water separator
Date: Aug 15, 2011
Sorry - I did not bother to do performance measurements. This is the fourth drain in my air system. Before adding this to the first three I got water to the gun. With it I don't. I shot primer today on the RV-10 cabin top and cowl in hot, humid Fredericksburg Virginia. Carl From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Luckey Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 8:11 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Paint air water separator That's pretty cool :)! It's difficult to see in the picture but I assume that the condenser coil's output intersects the vertical pipe a few inches from its bottom? Questions: 1. how much water is collected after an hour of spraying? 2. What part of the country are you in? 3. relative humidity, temp/dew point spread? 4. Any idea what the pressure drop thru the device is? (tank pressure vs gun pressure?) 5. How many pounds of ice do you typically use & how long does it last at what ambient temp? I know, waaaay too many questions. _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 16:18 Subject: RV-List: Paint air water separator For those of you doing your own painting, attached photo is a water separator that I find to work well. When painting I add a few blocks of ice to the water. In the photo the red hose is air in, the orange hose is air out. The drain valve is connected at the bottom of the vertical PVC pipe. The vertical pipe acts as a water collector. Carl ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 16, 2011
From: Richard Dudley <rhdudley1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Paint air water separator
For what it's worth, another data point. I painted my RV-6A in July and August of 2004 in Florida where and when the temperature and humidity, are always very high. Initially, I worried about water in the air line and read of many solutions that involved cooled coils in the air line. However, I avoided those complications by using a filter at the gun and had no water problems. I used conventional high pressure guns, a de Vilbiss touch-up gun for small parts and a gravity feed gun (forgot the brand name) for the large areas. My paint sequence was: wash primer followed by epoxy primer, then color followed by clear. At no time did I observe any water droplets. The painted result was excellent. If you look past the well used and messy spray gun, I've attached a couple of pictures of my touch-up gun with the in-line filter (the black thing below the pressure gauge). Best regardsto all those brave souls who do their own painting, Richard Dudley RV-6A On 8/15/2011 7:18 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote: > > For those of you doing your own painting, attached photo is a water > separator that I find to work well. When painting I add a few blocks > of ice to the water. In the photo the red hose is air in, the orange > hose is air out. The drain valve is connected at the bottom of the > vertical PVC pipe. The vertical pipe acts as a water collector. > > Carl > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 16, 2011
From: John Cox <rv10pro(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
LinkedIn ------------ I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - John John Cox Avionics at Horizon Air Portland, Oregon Area Confirm that you know John Cox https://www.linkedin.com/e/5sybz6-grf5y6la-4l/isd/3878358871/rQqWuhgh/ -- (c) 2011, LinkedIn Corporation ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Paint air water separator
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Date: Aug 16, 2011
I used the same set up (black filter/ water trap) on my Devilbiss HVLP spray gun in 2002 when I painted my RV-4 with no water issues. Had some issues b efore I installed the trap, but not after. Now if they could develop a bug t rap....... Sent from my iPhone On Aug 16, 2011, at 12:31 PM, Richard Dudley wrote : > For what it's worth, another data point. > > I painted my RV-6A in July and August of 2004 in Florida where and when th e temperature and humidity, are always very high. Initially, I worried about water in the air line and read of many solutions that involved cooled coils in the air line. However, I avoided those complications by using a filter a t the gun and had no water problems. I used conventional high pressure guns, a de Vilbiss touch-up gun for small parts and a gravity feed gun (forgot th e brand name) for the large areas. My paint sequence was: wash primer follow ed by epoxy primer, then color followed by clear. At no time did I observe a ny water droplets. The painted result was excellent. > > If you look past the well used and messy spray gun, I've attached a couple of pictures of my touch-up gun with the in-line filter (the black thing bel ow the pressure gauge). > > Best regards to all those brave souls who do their own painting, > > Richard Dudley > RV-6A > > On 8/15/2011 7:18 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote: >> >> For those of you doing your own painting, attached photo is a water separ ator that I find to work well. When painting I add a few blocks of ice to the water. In the photo the red hose is air in, the orange hose i s air out. The drain valve is connected at the bottom of the vertical PVC p ipe. The vertical pipe acts as a water collector. >> >> Carl > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2011
Subject: inspecting innards of oil filter
From: thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com>
I put a new oil filter in my IO-360 a week ago and cut open the old one. Does any one know which way the oil flows thru the filter? Does it go from the inside out to the periphery or the other way round? If it goes from the outside to the inside, then I only have to inspect the outsie - easily visible - surface. If it goes the other way, I have to inspect the harder to get to (= really messy) inner surface. Thanks, -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A, N811WT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 19, 2011
Subject: Re: inspecting innards of oil filter
You need to look at the inside by cutting the element off of the support. Dave Saylor AirCrafters 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 8:32 AM, thomas sargent wrote: > I put a new oil filter in my IO-360 a week ago and cut open the old one. > Does any one know which way the oil flows thru the filter? Does it go from > the inside out to the periphery or the other way round? If it goes from the > outside to the inside, then I only have to inspect the outsie - easily > visible - surface. If it goes the other way, I have to inspect the harder > to get to (= really messy) inner surface. > > Thanks, > -- > Tom Sargent, RV-6A, N811WT > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Burns" <burnsm(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Aug 19, 2011
Subject: Re: inspecting innards of oil filter
Tom, Oil flows from outside to the inside. So, for a quick look you can just spread the pleats. But the right way is to cut it out of there and lay it flat. Mark Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless -----Original message----- From: thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> Sent: Fri, Aug 19, 2011 15:32:29 GMT+00:00 Subject: RV-List: inspecting innards of oil filter I put a new oil filter in my IO-360 a week ago and cut open the old one. Does any one know which way the oil flows thru the filter? Does it go from the inside out to the periphery or the other way round? If it goes from the outside to the inside, then I only have to inspect the outsie - easily visible - surface. If it goes the other way, I have to inspect the harder to get to (= really messy) inner surface. Thanks, -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A, N811WT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: inspecting innards of oil filter
Date: Aug 19, 2011
Tom: Oil goes from the OUTSIDE in. For the past 14-years=2C I have cut every fil ter open at oil change on my 2=2C536 Hobbs hours RV-6. There has NEVER be en anything on the inside but I do occasionally find stuff on the outside. Cut the paper off and stretch it out is the proper way to do it. Some guys was it out with solvent to inspect for even smaller parts. Yes I am an A&P / DAR. Date: Fri=2C 19 Aug 2011 08:32:29 -0700 Subject: RV-List: inspecting innards of oil filter From: sarg314(at)gmail.com I put a new oil filter in my IO-360 a week ago and cut open the old one. D oes any one know which way the oil flows thru the filter? Does it go from t he inside out to the periphery or the other way round? If it goes from the outside to the inside=2C then I only have to inspect the outsie - easily v isible - surface. If it goes the other way=2C I have to inspect the harder to get to (= really messy) inner surface. Thanks=2C -- Tom Sargent=2C RV-6A=2C N811WT ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Circuit Protection
At 10:18 AM 8/24/2011 Wednesday, you wrote: >I won't be writing the check for awhile, but I'm looking really hard at using the VP-X for circuit protection with a few exceptions now that Dynon Skyview is compatible. A little spendy, but I like the features and wiring simplifications it offers. An electrical whiz I ain't. Any personal experience out there I can tap into? So far I haven't seen anything I would call really negative, but I'm going to have to raise my confidence level a bit more before I lock in a decision. In the meantime, I occasionally take a break from hammers and hacksaws and spend some time on electrical schematics. Good mental exercise, but I'd like to minimize the iterations. > >Stan Loer >RV-8 QB Hi Stan, You might want to seriously consider the Vertical Power VP-200 system over the VP-x. Its a fair amount more expensive, but it adds a LOT of additional functionality. Depending on your compliment of accessories, the VP-200 will almost completely eliminate the need for SWITCHES of any kind. This makes for a really clean panel. I've flow with the VP-200 in my RV-8 for 170 hours and haven't had a single issue with it and frankly can't imagine flying without it. The VP-x uses the same electronic breaker technology found in the VP-200, but still requires individual, low current switches to switch the various circuits on and off (e.g. landing light, etc.). With the VP-200, all of that is done automatically based on the autodetected mode of flight (Taxi, Runup, Takeoff, Cruse, etc). Basically, you get in the plane, push the "ON" button, and you never have to think about switches again. You can still manually select the mode and/or manually turn individually turn circuits on/off if you need to. Love it. I highly recommend the VP-200 system from Vertical Power. Matt - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RE: RV7-List: Re: Circuit Protection
Date: Aug 27, 2011
I was one of the early adopters of the VP system, though -- being a working stiff, I ended up going with the VP-50, since discontinued in favor of the VPX. The principle is certainly the same, so you may want to look at this article I wrote: http://rvbuildershotline.com/articles/2010/vp50.html The biggest thing I like about it is I - like you- am not an electrical engineer and I didn't want my panel loaded up with circuit breakers. The VP system is simple: Wire to it with the supplied wire, configure, done. As far as the VP-200, yeah, if you've got the trust fund, it's definitely the way to go (g). It's a wonderful piece of machinery. Here's some background an interview I did with Marc when it first came on the scene: http://rvbuildershotline.com/articles/2008/vertical_power.html The service from VP is top notch. It's a great company. There's nothing I can think of that I would say to dissuade you from going that route. Bob Collins RV-7A St. Paul, MN. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 11:57 AM rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV7-List: Re: Circuit Protection --> RV7-List message posted by: Matt Dralle At 10:18 AM 8/24/2011 Wednesday, you wrote: >I won't be writing the check for awhile, but I'm looking really hard at using the VP-X for circuit protection with a few exceptions now that Dynon Skyview is compatible. A little spendy, but I like the features and wiring simplifications it offers. An electrical whiz I ain't. Any personal experience out there I can tap into? So far I haven't seen anything I would call really negative, but I'm going to have to raise my confidence level a bit more before I lock in a decision. In the meantime, I occasionally take a break from hammers and hacksaws and spend some time on electrical schematics. Good mental exercise, but I'd like to minimize the iterations. > >Stan Loer >RV-8 QB Hi Stan, You might want to seriously consider the Vertical Power VP-200 system over the VP-x. Its a fair amount more expensive, but it adds a LOT of additional functionality. Depending on your compliment of accessories, the VP-200 will almost completely eliminate the need for SWITCHES of any kind. This makes for a really clean panel. I've flow with the VP-200 in my RV-8 for 170 hours and haven't had a single issue with it and frankly can't imagine flying without it. The VP-x uses the same electronic breaker technology found in the VP-200, but still requires individual, low current switches to switch the various circuits on and off (e.g. landing light, etc.). With the VP-200, all of that is done automatically based on the autodetected mode of flight (Taxi, Runup, Takeoff, Cruse, etc). Basically, you get in the plane, push the "ON" button, and you never have to think about switches again. You can still manually select the mode and/or manually turn individually turn circuits on/off if you need to. Love it. I highly recommend the VP-200 system from Vertical Power. Matt - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2011
From: Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com>
Subject: Exhaust gasket fit.
Hooking up the exhaust system, using a Vetterman exhaust on a O-360A1D. The exhast flange seems to fit the engine just fine, but the gasket won't go on. The slotted holes are just a hair too close together. Tried on all three of the cylinders that have two studs (one is missing a stud, didn't notice until I went to put stuff on tonight). The difference is well under 1/16", is it Ok to file that slotted hole just a hair wider? Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) RV-8A 80091 Engine stuff. 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "H. Ivan Haecker" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com>
Subject: Re: Exhaust gasket fit.
Date: Sep 07, 2011
I don't know if it's okay, but it's what I have done numerous times with no ill effects so far. Sure beats messing up the threads of the stud trying to force the gasket on. Ivan Haecker -4 1710 hrs. So. Cen. TX ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Huffaker" <bifft(at)xmission.com> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 8:41 PM Subject: RV-List: Exhaust gasket fit. > > Hooking up the exhaust system, using a Vetterman exhaust on a O-360A1D. > The exhast flange seems to fit the engine just fine, but the gasket won't > go on. The slotted holes are just a hair too close together. Tried on > all three of the cylinders that have two studs (one is missing a stud, > didn't notice until I went to put stuff on tonight). The difference is > well under 1/16", is it Ok to file that slotted hole just a hair wider? > > Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) > RV-8A 80091 Engine stuff. > 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 2011
From: Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com>
Subject: Re: Exhaust gasket fit.
On Wed, 7 Sep 2011, H. Ivan Haecker wrote: > > I don't know if it's okay, but it's what I have done numerous times with no > ill effects so far. Sure beats messing up the threads of the stud trying to > force the gasket on. > Thanks, tried one last night just to see, had to remove about .025" from each side, so call it .05" wider. Maybe a bit weaker, but probably not enough to matter. Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) RV-8A 80091 Insalling exhaust. 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: cleveland wheels bolt torque
From: "kaliya" <narayan.prolix(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 09, 2011
[quote="sarg314(at)gmail.com"]I have to replace the tire on my 6A, I ent back to my plans and read the section on installing the wheels and brakes. It says when assembling the split wheels "observe the manufacturer's bolt torque specifications". I've been looking for those on line and can't find them. The cleveland maintenance manual on line is a broken link. Is it just the normal torque for that size bolt? -- Tom Sargent, RV-6a, N811WT flying > [b] oh, realy fantastic web site. Use it correctly this site use of all the would and system news and helps known every one........... This site use full to all around the would, use it develop both......... Tires For sale (http://www.wheelsandtiresforsale.com/) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351783#351783 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 09, 2011
Subject: Re: cleveland wheels bolt torque
From: Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowenaero.com>
>From memory, but i'm pretty sure its 90 in/lbs. On Sep 9, 2011 5:54 AM, "kaliya" wrote: > > [quote="sarg314(at)gmail.com"]I have to replace the tire on my 6A, I ent back to my plans and read the section on installing the wheels and brakes. It says when assembling the split wheels "observe the manufacturer's bolt torque specifications". I've been looking for those on line and can't find them. The cleveland maintenance manual on line is a broken link. Is it just the normal torque for that size bolt? > -- > Tom Sargent, RV-6a, N811WT flying > >> [b] > > oh, realy fantastic web site. Use it correctly > this site use of all the would and system news and helps known every one........... > This site use full to all around the would, use it develop both......... > Tires For sale (http://www.wheelsandtiresforsale.com/) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351783#351783 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: cleveland wheels bolt torque
From: vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 09, 2011
Manual attached. -GV -----Original Message----- From: kaliya <narayan.prolix(at)gmail.com> Sent: Fri, Sep 9, 2011 2:53 am Subject: RV-List: Re: cleveland wheels bolt torque [quote="sarg314(at)gmail.com"]I have to replace the tire on my 6A, =C3=82 I ent back o my plans and read the section on installing the wheels and brakes. =C3=82 It says hen assembling the split wheels "observe the manufacturer's bolt torque pecifications". =C3=82 I've been looking for those on line and can't find t hem. The cleveland maintenance manual on line is a broken link. =C3=82 Is it ju st the ormal torque for that size bolt? - om Sargent, RV-6a, N811WT flying [b] oh, realy fantastic web site. Use it correctly his site use of all the would and system news and helps known every ne........... his site use full to all around the would, use it develop both......... ires For sale (http://www.wheelsandtiresforsale.com/) ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351783#351783 -= - The RV-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2011
From: Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com>
Subject: Exhaust hung, and a starter ring gear question.
Got the exhaust system attached. It went together very easy, oneof the simplest parts of this project so far. Everything just fit (once I filed the gaskets a little bit). Definatly recommend the Vetterman exaust if anybody is wondering. Looking ahead to later steps, I'm going to need a flywheel and starter ring gear. Reading around, lycomings have either the 122 or 149 tooth gear, is there a way I can look at the starter I have and know which gear would fit? I can find lots of pages like this: http://www.skytecair.com/RingGearTech.htm explaining how to tell from the gear which it is, but nothing going the other way. It is a O-360A1D, so probably 149, but how can I know? Or should I just get one, then get a new starter to match? That page talks about the first 3 digits of the starter model number, which is Delco-Remy 1109519. Searching by that I find: http://www.texasairsalvage.com/main_view.php?editid1 144 Which says it is for a 122 tooth gear. Anybody know how to tell? Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) RV-8A 80091 Hooking up engine. 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Exhaust hung, and a starter ring gear question.
From: vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 11, 2011
All I can do is quote the Lycoming Parts catalog. If I am reading it correc tly for the -A1D, it uses the same parts as the common -A1A: Support Assy (Flywheel) with Ring Gear Lycoming P/N LW-16064 Starter Ring gear only Lycoming P/N 72566 I'm pretty sure this is the 149 tooth gear, but I would start by searching based on Lycoming P/Ns to ensure that you get what is correct for your engi ne. Regarding the starter, I would just suck it up and get a Skytec. -GV -----Original Message----- From: Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com> Sent: Sun, Sep 11, 2011 5:44 pm Subject: RV-List: Exhaust hung, and a starter ring gear question. Got the exhaust system attached. It went together very easy, oneof the implest parts of this project so far. Everything just fit (once I filed he gaskets a little bit). Definatly recommend the Vetterman exaust if nybody is wondering. Looking ahead to later steps, I'm going to need a flywheel and starter ing gear. Reading around, lycomings have either the 122 or 149 tooth ear, is there a way I can look at the starter I have and know which gear ould fit? I can find lots of pages like this: http://www.skytecair.com/RingGearTech.htm explaining how to tell from the gear which it is, but nothing going the ther way. It is a O-360A1D, so probably 149, but how can I know? Or hould I just get one, then get a new starter to match? That page talks bout the first 3 digits of the starter model number, which is Delco-Remy 109519. Searching by that I find: http://www.texasairsalvage.com/main_view.php?editid1 144 Which says it is for a 122 tooth gear. Anybody know how to tell? Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) RV-8A 80091 Hooking up engine. 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying -= - The RV-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "charlie" <cheathco(at)pgtc.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/11/11
Date: Sep 12, 2011
Definitely go with the skytec, just go the old fashion easy way and count the teeth, then order the skytec for that number of teeth. charlie H -----Original Message----- From: RV-List Digest Server Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 2:00 AM Subject: RV-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/11/11 * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete RV-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the RV-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 11-09-11&Archive=RV Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 11-09-11&Archive=RV =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/11/11: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:44 PM - Exhaust hung, and a starter ring gear question. (Brian Huffaker) 2. 07:30 PM - Re: Exhaust hung, and a starter ring gear question. (vanremog(at)aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ From: Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com> Subject: RV-List: Exhaust hung, and a starter ring gear question. Got the exhaust system attached. It went together very easy, oneof the simplest parts of this project so far. Everything just fit (once I filed the gaskets a little bit). Definatly recommend the Vetterman exaust if anybody is wondering. Looking ahead to later steps, I'm going to need a flywheel and starter ring gear. Reading around, lycomings have either the 122 or 149 tooth gear, is there a way I can look at the starter I have and know which gear would fit? I can find lots of pages like this: http://www.skytecair.com/RingGearTech.htm explaining how to tell from the gear which it is, but nothing going the other way. It is a O-360A1D, so probably 149, but how can I know? Or should I just get one, then get a new starter to match? That page talks about the first 3 digits of the starter model number, which is Delco-Remy 1109519. Searching by that I find: http://www.texasairsalvage.com/main_view.php?editid1 144 Which says it is for a 122 tooth gear. Anybody know how to tell? Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) RV-8A 80091 Hooking up engine. 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Subject: Re: RV-List: Exhaust hung, and a starter ring gear question. From: vanremog(at)aol.com All I can do is quote the Lycoming Parts catalog. If I am reading it correc tly for the -A1D, it uses the same parts as the common -A1A: Support Assy (Flywheel) with Ring Gear Lycoming P/N LW-16064 Starter Ring gear only Lycoming P/N 72566 I'm pretty sure this is the 149 tooth gear, but I would start by searching based on Lycoming P/Ns to ensure that you get what is correct for your engi ne. Regarding the starter, I would just suck it up and get a Skytec. -GV -----Original Message----- From: Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com> Sent: Sun, Sep 11, 2011 5:44 pm Subject: RV-List: Exhaust hung, and a starter ring gear question. Got the exhaust system attached. It went together very easy, oneof the implest parts of this project so far. Everything just fit (once I filed he gaskets a little bit). Definatly recommend the Vetterman exaust if nybody is wondering. Looking ahead to later steps, I'm going to need a flywheel and starter ing gear. Reading around, lycomings have either the 122 or 149 tooth ear, is there a way I can look at the starter I have and know which gear ould fit? I can find lots of pages like this: http://www.skytecair.com/RingGearTech.htm explaining how to tell from the gear which it is, but nothing going the ther way. It is a O-360A1D, so probably 149, but how can I know? Or hould I just get one, then get a new starter to match? That page talks bout the first 3 digits of the starter model number, which is Delco-Remy 109519. Searching by that I find: http://www.texasairsalvage.com/main_view.php?editid1 144 Which says it is for a 122 tooth gear. Anybody know how to tell? Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) RV-8A 80091 Hooking up engine. 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying -= - The RV-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List - -======================= -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================= -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================= ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2011
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Exhaust hung, and a starter ring gear question.
Email Les Staples at SkyTek. Les Staples He's more than willing to help. Tell him I sent ya. Linn Walters On 9/11/2011 8:40 PM, Brian Huffaker wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Brian Huffaker > > > Got the exhaust system attached. It went together very easy, oneof the > simplest parts of this project so far. Everything just fit (once I filed > the gaskets a little bit). Definatly recommend the Vetterman exaust if > anybody is wondering. > > Looking ahead to later steps, I'm going to need a flywheel and starter > ring gear. Reading around, lycomings have either the 122 or 149 tooth > gear, is there a way I can look at the starter I have and know which gear > would fit? I can find lots of pages like this: > > http://www.skytecair.com/RingGearTech.htm > > explaining how to tell from the gear which it is, but nothing going the > other way. It is a O-360A1D, so probably 149, but how can I know? Or > should I just get one, then get a new starter to match? That page talks > about the first 3 digits of the starter model number, which is Delco-Remy > 1109519. Searching by that I find: > > http://www.texasairsalvage.com/main_view.php?editid1 144 > > Which says it is for a 122 tooth gear. Anybody know how to tell? > > Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) > RV-8A 80091 Hooking up engine. > 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2011
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Who makes this?
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2011
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Who makes this?
On 09/12/2011 12:03 PM, Ralph E. Capen wrote: > > > Yes it is a stolen picture....I think I bought it from Spruce - they > don't carry it any more and I have broken mine...while lowering the > plane after finishing a maintenance evolution - no damage to the plane. > > I am looking to get some replacement parts....the hook broke off > inside the block where it joins the larger threaded rod...also, the > handle seems to be jammed on the larger threaded rod - leading me to > twisting the other part off with too much force. > > The hook is completely seperated...the handle is completely jammed - > it will have to be cut from the crossbar in order to prevent me from > buying a new crossbar also. > > Any ideas or assistance welcome - it is not a critical item right now > as I have finished the work I needed to do..... > > Ralph > > RV6A N822AR @ N06 - 125+ hours - doing my IFR training...what a blast! > Never seen that one before, but if you are interested in a replacement, you might look at http://www.averytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=4665 (Relatively easy to duplicate the technique with stuff you probably have lying around the hangar.) Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2011
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Who makes this?
Thanks for the info on the different one - looks pretty neat! Still want to find out about my original.....getting it fixed might be cheaper than starting over. Was thinking I would pick their brain as to materials etc..... -----Original Message----- >From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> >Sent: Sep 12, 2011 2:53 PM >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Who makes this? > >On 09/12/2011 12:03 PM, Ralph E. Capen wrote: >> >> >> Yes it is a stolen picture....I think I bought it from Spruce - they >> don't carry it any more and I have broken mine...while lowering the >> plane after finishing a maintenance evolution - no damage to the plane. >> >> I am looking to get some replacement parts....the hook broke off >> inside the block where it joins the larger threaded rod...also, the >> handle seems to be jammed on the larger threaded rod - leading me to >> twisting the other part off with too much force. >> >> The hook is completely seperated...the handle is completely jammed - >> it will have to be cut from the crossbar in order to prevent me from >> buying a new crossbar also. >> >> Any ideas or assistance welcome - it is not a critical item right now >> as I have finished the work I needed to do..... >> >> Ralph >> >> RV6A N822AR @ N06 - 125+ hours - doing my IFR training...what a blast! >> >Never seen that one before, but if you are interested in a replacement, >you might look at >http://www.averytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=4665 > >(Relatively easy to duplicate the technique with stuff you probably have >lying around the hangar.) > >Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2011
Subject: Re: Overheating cylinder
From: mr.gsun(at)gmail.com
On a recent crosscountry flight at 8k and 2350 rpm, my IO360 started a wild fluxuation on #2 cht. My Skyview showed rapid movement between 300 and 550 degrees then it went out of range and stayed that way until landing. While taxiing all temps were normal and #2 egt stayed normal throughout the flight. When I pulled the cowl nothing looked cooked and sensor wire looked normal. Compression seemed normal when I pulled the prop through eight or ten times. I will swap egt sensors 2&4 next flight. Any other suggestions? Greg On Sep 12, 2011 5:33 AM, "Linn Walters" wrote: > > Email Les Staples at SkyTek. Les Staples > He's more than willing to help. Tell him I sent ya. > Linn Walters > > > On 9/11/2011 8:40 PM, Brian Huffaker wrote: >> >> >> Got the exhaust system attached. It went together very easy, oneof the >> simplest parts of this project so far. Everything just fit (once I filed >> the gaskets a little bit). Definatly recommend the Vetterman exaust if >> anybody is wondering. >> >> Looking ahead to later steps, I'm going to need a flywheel and starter >> ring gear. Reading around, lycomings have either the 122 or 149 tooth >> gear, is there a way I can look at the starter I have and know which gear >> would fit? I can find lots of pages like this: >> >> http://www.skytecair.com/RingGearTech.htm >> >> explaining how to tell from the gear which it is, but nothing going the >> other way. It is a O-360A1D, so probably 149, but how can I know? Or >> should I just get one, then get a new starter to match? That page talks >> about the first 3 digits of the starter model number, which is Delco-Remy >> 1109519. Searching by that I find: >> >> http://www.texasairsalvage.com/main_view.php?editid1 144 >> >> Which says it is for a 122 tooth gear. Anybody know how to tell? >> >> Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) >> RV-8A 80091 Hooking up engine. >> 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2011
Subject: Re: Overheating cylinder
From: Rob Kochman <rv10rob(at)gmail.com>
Try re-crimping the connectors before swapping the sensors. On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 8:02 AM, wrote: > On a recent crosscountry flight at 8k and 2350 rpm, my IO360 started a wild > fluxuation on #2 cht. My Skyview showed rapid movement between 300 and 550 > degrees then it went out of range and stayed that way until landing. While > taxiing all temps were normal and #2 egt stayed normal throughout the > flight. When I pulled the cowl nothing looked cooked and sensor wire > looked normal. Compression seemed normal when I pulled the prop through > eight or ten times. I will swap egt sensors 2&4 next flight. Any other > suggestions? > > Greg > On Sep 12, 2011 5:33 AM, "Linn Walters" wrote: > > > > Email Les Staples at SkyTek. Les Staples > > He's more than willing to help. Tell him I sent ya. > > Linn Walters > > > > > > On 9/11/2011 8:40 PM, Brian Huffaker wrote: > >> > >> > >> Got the exhaust system attached. It went together very easy, oneof the > >> simplest parts of this project so far. Everything just fit (once I filed > >> the gaskets a little bit). Definatly recommend the Vetterman exaust if > >> anybody is wondering. > >> > >> Looking ahead to later steps, I'm going to need a flywheel and starter > >> ring gear. Reading around, lycomings have either the 122 or 149 tooth > >> gear, is there a way I can look at the starter I have and know which > gear > >> would fit? I can find lots of pages like this: > >> > >> http://www.skytecair.com/RingGearTech.htm > >> > >> explaining how to tell from the gear which it is, but nothing going the > >> other way. It is a O-360A1D, so probably 149, but how can I know? Or > >> should I just get one, then get a new starter to match? That page talks > >> about the first 3 digits of the starter model number, which is > Delco-Remy > >> 1109519. Searching by that I find: > >> > >> http://www.texasairsalvage.com/main_view.php?editid1 144 > >> > >> Which says it is for a 122 tooth gear. Anybody know how to tell? > >> > >> Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) > >> RV-8A 80091 Hooking up engine. > >> 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying > >> > >> > ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > ://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > min. > > > > > > > > > * > > * > > -- Rob Kochman RV-10 Flying since March 2011 Woodinville, WA http://kochman.net/N819K ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Overheating cylinder
Date: Sep 13, 2011
If everything there is OK try checking the injectors. Sometimes something will get into the fuel injectors that causes the spray pattern to go bad. Mike Robertson Date: Tue=2C 13 Sep 2011 08:37:34 -0700 Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Overheating cylinder From: rv10rob(at)gmail.com Try re-crimping the connectors before swapping the sensors. On Tue=2C Sep 13=2C 2011 at 8:02 AM=2C wrote: On a recent crosscountry flight at 8k and 2350 rpm=2C my IO360 started a wi ld fluxuation on #2 cht. My Skyview showed rapid movement between 300 and 550 degrees then it went out of range and stayed that way until landing. While taxiing all temps were normal and #2 egt stayed normal throughout th e flight. When I pulled the cowl nothing looked cooked and sensor wire lo oked normal. Compression seemed normal when I pulled the prop through eig ht or ten times. I will swap egt sensors 2&4 next flight. Any other su ggestions? Greg On Sep 12=2C 2011 5:33 AM=2C "Linn Walters" wro te: > > Email Les Staples at SkyTek. Les Staples > He's more than willing to help. Tell him I sent ya. > Linn Walters > > > On 9/11/2011 8:40 PM=2C Brian Huffaker wrote: >> >> >> Got the exhaust system attached. It went together very easy=2C oneof the >> simplest parts of this project so far. Everything just fit (once I filed >> the gaskets a little bit). Definatly recommend the Vetterman exaust if >> anybody is wondering. >> >> Looking ahead to later steps=2C I'm going to need a flywheel and starter >> ring gear. Reading around=2C lycomings have either the 122 or 149 tooth >> gear=2C is there a way I can look at the starter I have and know which g ear >> would fit? I can find lots of pages like this: >> >> http://www.skytecair.com/RingGearTech.htm >> >> explaining how to tell from the gear which it is=2C but nothing going th e >> other way. It is a O-360A1D=2C so probably 149=2C but how can I know? Or >> should I just get one=2C then get a new starter to match? That page talk s >> about the first 3 digits of the starter model number=2C which is Delco-R emy >> 1109519. Searching by that I find: >> >> http://www.texasairsalvage.com/main_view.php?editid1 144 >> >> Which says it is for a 122 tooth gear. Anybody know how to tell? >> >> Brian Huffaker=2C DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) >> RV-8A 80091 Hooking up engine. >> 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying >> >> ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Na vigator?RV-List ://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com min. > > > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rob Kochman RV-10 Flying since March 2011 Woodinville=2C WA http://kochman.net/N819K ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2011
Subject: Re: Overheating cylinder
From: mr.gsun(at)gmail.com
Good thought, thanks. I will soak them in some Hoppe's #9. Would a cylinder with a dirty injector really run that much hotter? Greg On Sep 13, 2011 10:58 AM, "Mike Robertson" wrote: > > If everything there is OK try checking the injectors. Sometimes something will get into the fuel injectors that causes the spray pattern to go bad. > > Mike Robertson > > > Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 08:37:34 -0700 > Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Overheating cylinder > From: rv10rob(at)gmail.com > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Try re-crimping the connectors before swapping the sensors. > > > On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 8:02 AM, wrote: > > > On a recent crosscountry flight at 8k and 2350 rpm, my IO360 started a wild fluxuation on #2 cht. My Skyview showed rapid movement between 300 and 550 degrees then it went out of range and stayed that way until landing. While taxiing all temps were normal and #2 egt stayed normal throughout the flight. When I pulled the cowl nothing looked cooked and sensor wire looked normal. Compression seemed normal when I pulled the prop through eight or ten times. I will swap egt sensors 2&4 next flight. Any other suggestions? > Greg > On Sep 12, 2011 5:33 AM, "Linn Walters" wrote: >> >> Email Les Staples at SkyTek. Les Staples >> He's more than willing to help. Tell him I sent ya. >> Linn Walters >> >> >> On 9/11/2011 8:40 PM, Brian Huffaker wrote: >>> >>> >>> Got the exhaust system attached. It went together very easy, oneof the >>> simplest parts of this project so far. Everything just fit (once I filed >>> the gaskets a little bit). Definatly recommend the Vetterman exaust if >>> anybody is wondering. >>> >>> Looking ahead to later steps, I'm going to need a flywheel and starter >>> ring gear. Reading around, lycomings have either the 122 or 149 tooth >>> gear, is there a way I can look at the starter I have and know which gear >>> would fit? I can find lots of pages like this: >>> >>> http://www.skytecair.com/RingGearTech.htm >>> >>> explaining how to tell from the gear which it is, but nothing going the >>> other way. It is a O-360A1D, so probably 149, but how can I know? Or >>> should I just get one, then get a new starter to match? That page talks >>> about the first 3 digits of the starter model number, which is Delco-Remy >>> 1109519. Searching by that I find: >>> >>> http://www.texasairsalvage.com/main_view.php?editid1 144 >>> >>> Which says it is for a 122 tooth gear. Anybody know how to tell? >>> >>> Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) >>> RV-8A 80091 Hooking up engine. >>> 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying >>> >>> > ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > ://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > min. > >> >> >> > > > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > ttp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > -- > > Rob Kochman > RV-10 Flying since March 2011 > Woodinville, WA > http://kochman.net/N819K > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 13, 2011
Subject: RV-8 instrument panel for sale
I just listed this panel for sale on eBay. VFR only, a bit dated, but priced right. eBay listing no. 290609665508 Dave Saylor AirCrafters 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Overheating cylinder
From: "dmaib(at)me.com" <dmaib(at)me.com>
Date: Sep 13, 2011
[quote="mr.sun"]Good thought, thanks. I will soak them in some Hoppe's #9. Would a cylinder with a dirty injector really run that much hotter? Greg On Sep 13, 2011 10:58 AM, "Mike Robertson" wrote:> > If everything there is OK try checking the injectors. Sometimes something will get into the fuel injectors that causes the spray pattern to go bad. > > > > Mike Robertson > > Yes it will. I have had this happen. My hangar neighbor recently had this happen in his RV-7 during Phase 1 testing. > > > > Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 08:37:34 -0700 > Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Overheating cylinder > From: rv10rob(at)gmail.com (rv10rob(at)gmail.com) > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com) > > > Try re-crimping the connectors before swapping the sensors. > > > On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 8:02 AM, wrote: > > > > > On a recent crosscountry flight at 8k and 2350 rpm, my IO360 started a wild fluxuation on #2 cht. My Skyview showed rapid movement between 300 and 550 degrees then it went out of range and stayed that way until landing. While taxiing all temps were normal and #2 egt stayed normal throughout the flight. When I pulled the cowl nothing looked cooked and sensor wire looked normal. Compression seemed normal when I pulled the prop through eight or ten times. I will swap egt sensors 2&4 next flight. Any other suggestions? > > Greg > > On Sep 12, 2011 5:33 AM, "Linn Walters" wrote: > >> > > > Email Les Staples at SkyTek. Les Staples > > He's more than willing to help. Tell him I sent ya. > > Linn Walters > >> > > > > > On 9/11/2011 8:40 PM, Brian Huffaker wrote: > >> > >>> > > >> Got the exhaust system attached. It went together very easy, oneof the > >> simplest parts of this project so far. Everything just fit (once I filed > >> the gaskets a little bit). Definatly recommend the Vetterman exaust if > >>> anybody is wondering. > > >> > >> Looking ahead to later steps, I'm going to need a flywheel and starter > >> ring gear. Reading around, lycomings have either the 122 or 149 tooth > >>> gear, is there a way I can look at the starter I have and know which gear > > >> would fit? I can find lots of pages like this: > >> > >> http://www.skytecair.com/RingGearTech.htm (http://www.skytecair.com/RingGearTech.htm) > >>> > > >> explaining how to tell from the gear which it is, but nothing going the > >> other way. It is a O-360A1D, so probably 149, but how can I know? Or > >> should I just get one, then get a new starter to match? That page talks > >>> about the first 3 digits of the starter model number, which is Delco-Remy > > >> 1109519. Searching by that I find: > >> > >> http://www.texasairsalvage.com/main_view.php?editid1 144 (http://www.texasairsalvage.com/main_view.php?editid1 144) > >>> > > >> Which says it is for a 122 tooth gear. Anybody know how to tell? > >> > >> Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com (bifft(at)xmission.com)) > >> RV-8A 80091 Hooking up engine. > >>> 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying > > >> > >> > ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List)">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) > > ://forums.matronics.com (http://forums.matronics.com)">http://forums.matronics.com (http://forums.matronics.com) > > min. > > > > > > > > > > > > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) > ttp://forums.matronics.com (http://forums.matronics.com) > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) > > > > > > -- > > Rob Kochman > RV-10 Flying since March 2011 > Woodinville, WA > http://kochman.net/N819K (http://kochman.net/N819K) > > > > > > > [b] -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352184#352184 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2011
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: Overheating cylinder
You won't have fluctuating values with a clogged injector. Only bad probe wiring or a failing exhaust valve will cause rapid fluctation. In the later case it will be a saw tooth pattern of maybe 50 degrees, and your problem is far more likely to be a poor connection to the probe. On 9/13/2011 12:19 PM, mr.gsun(at)gmail.com wrote: > > Good thought, thanks. I will soak them in some Hoppe's #9. Would > a cylinder with a dirty injector really run that much hotter? > > Greg > > On Sep 13, 2011 10:58 AM, "Mike Robertson" > wrote: > > > > If everything there is OK try checking the injectors. Sometimes > something will get into the fuel injectors that causes the spray > pattern to go bad. > > > > Mike Robertson > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 08:37:34 -0700 > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Overheating cylinder > > From: rv10rob(at)gmail.com <mailto:rv10rob(at)gmail.com> > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > > > Try re-crimping the connectors before swapping the sensors. > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 8:02 AM, > wrote: > > > > > > On a recent crosscountry flight at 8k and 2350 rpm, my IO360 started > a wild fluxuation on #2 cht. My Skyview showed rapid movement between > 300 and 550 degrees then it went out of range and stayed that way > until landing. While taxiing all temps were normal and #2 egt stayed > normal throughout the flight. When I pulled the cowl nothing looked > cooked and sensor wire looked normal. Compression seemed normal when I > pulled the prop through eight or ten times. I will swap egt sensors > 2&4 next flight. Any other suggestions? > > Greg > > On Sep 12, 2011 5:33 AM, "Linn Walters" > wrote: > > > >> > >> Email Les Staples at SkyTek. Les Staples > > >> He's more than willing to help. Tell him I sent ya. > >> Linn Walters > >> > >> > >> On 9/11/2011 8:40 PM, Brian Huffaker wrote: > > > >>> > >>> > >>> Got the exhaust system attached. It went together very easy, oneof the > >>> simplest parts of this project so far. Everything just fit (once I > filed > >>> the gaskets a little bit). Definatly recommend the Vetterman exaust if > >>> anybody is wondering. > >>> > >>> Looking ahead to later steps, I'm going to need a flywheel and starter > >>> ring gear. Reading around, lycomings have either the 122 or 149 tooth > >>> gear, is there a way I can look at the starter I have and know > which gear > >>> would fit? I can find lots of pages like this: > >>> > >>> http://www.skytecair.com/RingGearTech.htm > >>> > >>> explaining how to tell from the gear which it is, but nothing > going the > >>> other way. It is a O-360A1D, so probably 149, but how can I know? Or > >>> should I just get one, then get a new starter to match? That page > talks > >>> about the first 3 digits of the starter model number, which is > Delco-Remy > >>> 1109519. Searching by that I find: > >>> > >>> http://www.texasairsalvage.com/main_view.php?editid1 144 > >>> > >>> Which says it is for a 122 tooth gear. Anybody know how to tell? > >>> > >>> Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com ) > >>> RV-8A 80091 Hooking up engine. > >>> 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying > >>> > >>> > > > ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > > ://forums.matronics.com > <http://forums.matronics.com>">http://forums.matronics.com > > min. > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > > ttp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com> > > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Rob Kochman > > RV-10 Flying since March 2011 > > Woodinville, WA > > http://kochman.net/N819K > > > > > > > > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2011
Subject: Re: Overheating cylinder
From: mr.gsun(at)gmail.com
Thanks. Interesting that it cools down and becomes normal moments after landing. But not on a long descent. Airflow thru cowl affecting poor crimp connection. Will recrimp wires and clean injectors this weelend. Greg On Sep 13, 2011 3:15 PM, "Kelly McMullen" wrote: > > You won't have fluctuating values with a clogged injector. Only bad > probe wiring or a failing exhaust valve will cause rapid fluctation. In > the later case it will be a saw tooth pattern of maybe 50 degrees, and > your problem is far more likely to be a poor connection to the probe. > > On 9/13/2011 12:19 PM, mr.gsun(at)gmail.com wrote: >> >> Good thought, thanks. I will soak them in some Hoppe's #9. Would >> a cylinder with a dirty injector really run that much hotter? >> >> Greg >> >> On Sep 13, 2011 10:58 AM, "Mike Robertson" > > wrote: >> > >> > If everything there is OK try checking the injectors. Sometimes >> something will get into the fuel injectors that causes the spray >> pattern to go bad. >> > >> > Mike Robertson >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 08:37:34 -0700 >> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Overheating cylinder >> > From: rv10rob(at)gmail.com <mailto:rv10rob(at)gmail.com> >> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >> > >> > Try re-crimping the connectors before swapping the sensors. >> > >> > >> > On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 8:02 AM, > > wrote: >> > >> > >> > On a recent crosscountry flight at 8k and 2350 rpm, my IO360 started >> a wild fluxuation on #2 cht. My Skyview showed rapid movement between >> 300 and 550 degrees then it went out of range and stayed that way >> until landing. While taxiing all temps were normal and #2 egt stayed >> normal throughout the flight. When I pulled the cowl nothing looked >> cooked and sensor wire looked normal. Compression seemed normal when I >> pulled the prop through eight or ten times. I will swap egt sensors >> 2&4 next flight. Any other suggestions? >> > Greg >> > On Sep 12, 2011 5:33 AM, "Linn Walters" > > wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> Email Les Staples at SkyTek. Les Staples > > >> >> He's more than willing to help. Tell him I sent ya. >> >> Linn Walters >> >> >> >> >> >> On 9/11/2011 8:40 PM, Brian Huffaker wrote: >> > >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Got the exhaust system attached. It went together very easy, oneof the >> >>> simplest parts of this project so far. Everything just fit (once I >> filed >> >>> the gaskets a little bit). Definatly recommend the Vetterman exaust if >> >>> anybody is wondering. >> >>> >> >>> Looking ahead to later steps, I'm going to need a flywheel and starter >> >>> ring gear. Reading around, lycomings have either the 122 or 149 tooth >> >>> gear, is there a way I can look at the starter I have and know >> which gear >> >>> would fit? I can find lots of pages like this: >> >>> >> >>> http://www.skytecair.com/RingGearTech.htm >> >>> >> >>> explaining how to tell from the gear which it is, but nothing >> going the >> >>> other way. It is a O-360A1D, so probably 149, but how can I know? Or >> >>> should I just get one, then get a new starter to match? That page >> talks >> >>> about the first 3 digits of the starter model number, which is >> Delco-Remy >> >>> 1109519. Searching by that I find: >> >>> >> >>> http://www.texasairsalvage.com/main_view.php?editid1 144 >> >>> >> >>> Which says it is for a 122 tooth gear. Anybody know how to tell? >> >>> >> >>> Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com ) >> >>> RV-8A 80091 Hooking up engine. >> >>> 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying >> >>> >> >>> >> > >> ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >> > ://forums.matronics.com >> <http://forums.matronics.com>">http://forums.matronics.com >> > min. >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >> > ttp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com> >> > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > Rob Kochman >> > RV-10 Flying since March 2011 >> > Woodinville, WA >> > http://kochman.net/N819K >> > >> > >> > >> > >> * >> >> >> * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2011
Subject: Re: Overheating cylinder
From: Rob Kochman <rv10rob(at)gmail.com>
If it was an injector, wouldn't you be seeing high EGT, too? On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 3:34 PM, wrote: > Thanks. Interesting that it cools down and becomes normal moments after > landing. But not on a long descent. Airflow thru cowl affecting poor > crimp connection. Will recrimp wires and clean injectors this weelend. > > Greg > On Sep 13, 2011 3:15 PM, "Kelly McMullen" wrote: > > > > You won't have fluctuating values with a clogged injector. Only bad > > probe wiring or a failing exhaust valve will cause rapid fluctation. In > > the later case it will be a saw tooth pattern of maybe 50 degrees, and > > your problem is far more likely to be a poor connection to the probe. > > > > > On 9/13/2011 12:19 PM, mr.gsun(at)gmail.com wrote: > >> > >> Good thought, thanks. I will soak them in some Hoppe's #9. Would > >> a cylinder with a dirty injector really run that much hotter? > >> > >> Greg > >> > >> On Sep 13, 2011 10:58 AM, "Mike Robertson" >> > wrote: > >> > > >> > If everything there is OK try checking the injectors. Sometimes > >> something will get into the fuel injectors that causes the spray > >> pattern to go bad. > >> > > >> > Mike Robertson > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 08:37:34 -0700 > >> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Overheating cylinder > >> > From: rv10rob(at)gmail.com <mailto:rv10rob(at)gmail.com> > >> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > >> > > >> > Try re-crimping the connectors before swapping the sensors. > >> > > >> > > >> > On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 8:02 AM, >> > wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > On a recent crosscountry flight at 8k and 2350 rpm, my IO360 started > >> a wild fluxuation on #2 cht. My Skyview showed rapid movement between > >> 300 and 550 degrees then it went out of range and stayed that way > >> until landing. While taxiing all temps were normal and #2 egt stayed > >> normal throughout the flight. When I pulled the cowl nothing looked > >> cooked and sensor wire looked normal. Compression seemed normal when I > >> pulled the prop through eight or ten times. I will swap egt sensors > >> 2&4 next flight. Any other suggestions? > >> > Greg > >> > On Sep 12, 2011 5:33 AM, "Linn Walters" >> > wrote: > >> > > > >> >> > >> >> Email Les Staples at SkyTek. Les Staples >> > > > >> >> He's more than willing to help. Tell him I sent ya. > >> >> Linn Walters > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On 9/11/2011 8:40 PM, Brian Huffaker wrote: > >> > > > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> Got the exhaust system attached. It went together very easy, oneof > the > >> >>> simplest parts of this project so far. Everything just fit (once I > >> filed > >> >>> the gaskets a little bit). Definatly recommend the Vetterman exaust > if > >> >>> anybody is wondering. > >> >>> > >> >>> Looking ahead to later steps, I'm going to need a flywheel and > starter > >> >>> ring gear. Reading around, lycomings have either the 122 or 149 > tooth > >> >>> gear, is there a way I can look at the starter I have and know > >> which gear > >> >>> would fit? I can find lots of pages like this: > >> >>> > >> >>> http://www.skytecair.com/RingGearTech.htm > >> >>> > >> >>> explaining how to tell from the gear which it is, but nothing > >> going the > >> >>> other way. It is a O-360A1D, so probably 149, but how can I know? Or > >> >>> should I just get one, then get a new starter to match? That page > >> talks > >> >>> about the first 3 digits of the starter model number, which is > >> Delco-Remy > >> >>> 1109519. Searching by that I find: > >> >>> > >> >>> http://www.texasairsalvage.com/main_view.php?editid1 144 > >> >>> > >> >>> Which says it is for a 122 tooth gear. Anybody know how to tell? > >> >>> > >> >>> Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com ) > > > >> >>> RV-8A 80091 Hooking up engine. > >> >>> 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> > > >> ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > >> > ://forums.matronics.com > >> <http://forums.matronics.com>">http://forums.matronics.com > > >> > min. > >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > >> > ttp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com> > > >> > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > > >> > Rob Kochman > >> > RV-10 Flying since March 2011 > >> > Woodinville, WA > >> > http://kochman.net/N819K > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>re, and much much more: > TRONICS WEB FORUMS - > > nics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ============ > > > > > > > > * > > * > > -- Rob Kochman RV-10 Flying since March 2011 Woodinville, WA http://kochman.net/N819K ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com>
Date: Sep 14, 2011
Subject: Re: Overheating cylinder
I had the same thing happen to me on 2 cylinders on 2 separate occasions du ring early phase 1 (new Aerosport IO-360). First time it was an obvious wir ing issue - bad crimp that would intermittently make proper contact. The se cond time was also a wiring issue - but took a lot longer to discover. At f irst glance everything appeared ok - but more careful inspection revealed a loose wire. In my case the temp variations were so rapid and extreme that I concluded t he problem had to be electrical - not actual overheating. Sure got my atten tion, though. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ian Brown <ixb(at)videotron.ca>
Subject: RE: RV-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 09/13/11
Date: Sep 14, 2011
Greg, Two suggestions: 1. The mass of the cylinder head is unable to give temps that fluctuate wildly unless you mean changing over several minutes. Short term fluctuations are going to be due to the sensor and it's associated wiring. Since you're measuring very small voltages, you're susceptible to any induced volts where the sensor lead passes through the firewall, and maybe close to other wiring. Suppliers often suggest routing the sensor wires through a different port in the firewall. 2. Does anything else change upon landing, like lower alternator output, lower current draw on other devices, lights turned off, or whatever? I'd expect only lower readings because of lost volts. Was "out of range" downwards? A bad crimp or bad pin retention is likely to be the villain if you're only seeing readings fluctuate downwards. I've had a couple of cases where a pin or contact looked good but pushed out when the connector was mated. Ian Brown, Bromont, QC Thanks. Interesting that it cools down and becomes normal moments after > landing. But not on a long descent. Airflow thru cowl affecting poor > crimp connection. Will recrimp wires and clean injectors this weelend. > > Greg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Overheating cylinder
Date: Sep 14, 2011
It is possible. It happened to me=2C and after many injector cleanings and hunting we found it to be a bad flow divider. Not likely=2C but a possibil ity. Electrical is more likely. Mike Robertson Date: Tue=2C 13 Sep 2011 11:19:27 -0700 Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Overheating cylinder From: mr.gsun(at)gmail.com Good thought=2C thanks. I will soak them in some Hoppe's #9. Would a cylinder with a dirty injector really run that much hotter? Greg On Sep 13=2C 2011 10:58 AM=2C "Mike Robertson" wro te: > > If everything there is OK try checking the injectors. Sometimes something will get into the fuel injectors that causes the spray pattern to go bad. > > Mike Robertson > > > > > > Date: Tue=2C 13 Sep 2011 08:37:34 -0700 > Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Overheating cylinder > From: rv10rob(at)gmail.com > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Try re-crimping the connectors before swapping the sensors. > > > On Tue=2C Sep 13=2C 2011 at 8:02 AM=2C wrote: > > > On a recent crosscountry flight at 8k and 2350 rpm=2C my IO360 started a wild fluxuation on #2 cht. My Skyview showed rapid movement between 300 and 550 degrees then it went out of range and stayed that way until landing. W hile taxiing all temps were normal and #2 egt stayed normal throughout the flight. When I pulled the cowl nothing looked cooked and sensor wire looked normal. Compression seemed normal when I pulled the prop through eight or ten times. I will swap egt sensors 2&4 next flight. Any other suggestions? > Greg > On Sep 12=2C 2011 5:33 AM=2C "Linn Walters" w rote: >> >> Email Les Staples at SkyTek. Les Staples >> He's more than willing to help. Tell him I sent ya. >> Linn Walters >> >> >> On 9/11/2011 8:40 PM=2C Brian Huffaker wrote: >>> >>> >>> Got the exhaust system attached. It went together very easy=2C oneof th e >>> simplest parts of this project so far. Everything just fit (once I file d >>> the gaskets a little bit). Definatly recommend the Vetterman exaust if >>> anybody is wondering. >>> >>> Looking ahead to later steps=2C I'm going to need a flywheel and starte r >>> ring gear. Reading around=2C lycomings have either the 122 or 149 tooth >>> gear=2C is there a way I can look at the starter I have and know which gear >>> would fit? I can find lots of pages like this: >>> >>> http://www.skytecair.com/RingGearTech.htm >>> >>> explaining how to tell from the gear which it is=2C but nothing going t he >>> other way. It is a O-360A1D=2C so probably 149=2C but how can I know? O r >>> should I just get one=2C then get a new starter to match? That page tal ks >>> about the first 3 digits of the starter model number=2C which is Delco- Remy >>> 1109519. Searching by that I find: >>> >>> http://www.texasairsalvage.com/main_view.php?editid1 144 >>> >>> Which says it is for a 122 tooth gear. Anybody know how to tell? >>> >>> Brian Huffaker=2C DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) >>> RV-8A 80091 Hooking up engine. >>> 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying >>> >>> > ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?RV-List > ://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > min. > >> >> >> > > > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > ttp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > -- > > Rob Kochman > RV-10 Flying since March 2011 > Woodinville=2C WA > http://kochman.net/N819K > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2011
From: Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Overheating cylinder
After I overhauled our engine, I had a cylinder reading 800+ degrees on my first flight. It was running way too well to be almost melted so I decided to ignore it, but also landed on my next circuit just to check it out. It turned out to be a loose connection at the probe. Pax, Ed Holyoke On 9/14/2011 6:38 AM, Valovich, Paul wrote: > > I had the same thing happen to me on 2 cylinders on 2 separate > occasions during early phase 1 (new Aerosport IO-360). First time it > was an obvious wiring issue -- bad crimp that would intermittently > make proper contact. The second time was also a wiring issue -- but > took a lot longer to discover. At first glance everything appeared ok > -- but more careful inspection revealed a loose wire. > > In my case the temp variations were so rapid and extreme that I > concluded the problem had to be electrical -- not actual overheating. > Sure got my attention, though. > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "H. Ivan Haecker" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com>
Subject: Control Stick Bending
Date: Sep 15, 2011
Hey group, The following is a shameless plug for an rv service. Delete now if uninterested. I decided that I needed my front control stick bent to clear my instrument panel on my latest project (F-1 Rocket). It can use the same stick as the -4 and -8. I found a guy in CA provides this service and wanted to let others know about it. He can place an "ess" bend in the stick to provide an offset. The cost was $120 and included return shipping. I was very pleased with the results. His name is Mike Cingari and can be reached at mcingari(at)gmail.com If interested, read more at RV-8 Stick Bending - VAF Forums Ivan Haecker -4 1711 hrs. So. Cen. TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MLWynn(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 15, 2011
Subject: Re: Control Stick Bending
He did mine and did a great job. Michael Wynn RV 8 Finishing San Ramon, CA In a message dated 9/15/2011 5:16:09 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, baremetl(at)gvtc.com writes: Hey group, The following is a shameless plug for an rv service. Delete now if uninterested. I decided that I needed my front control stick bent to clear my instrument panel on my latest project (F-1 Rocket). It can use the same stick as the -4 and -8. I found a guy in CA provides this service and wanted to let others know about it. He can place an "ess" bend in the stick to provide an offset. The cost was $120 and included return shipping. I was very pleased with the results. His name is Mike Cingari and can be reached at _mcingari(at)gmail.com_ (mailto:mcingari(at)gmail.com) If interested, read more at _RV-8 Stick Bending - VAF Forums_ (http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=61847&highlight=bent+stick) Ivan Haecker -4 1711 hrs. So. Cen. TX (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) cs.com/contribution) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jack Haviland <jgh2(at)charter.net>
Subject: High CHTs
Date: Sep 16, 2011
My 6A with 54 hours on a new O-320 still produces CHTs exceeding 400 degrees on all four cylinders when climbing to pattern altitude in 80 degree ambient conditions. They run around 380 degrees at cruise power leaned but the EGTs are about 1430 degrees (the probes are about 2.5 inches from the exhaust flange). The oil temperature never exceeds 200 degrees, the flexible baffles seal tightly to the upper cowling, the upper cowl "eyebrow" ends are sealed, the ignition timing is correct and the carb jet ID has been increased by .003". I suspect the lower cowling air outlet area (obstructed by the nose gear strut, exhaust pipes, etc.) restricts the air flow needed to achieve Lycoming's recommended pressure differential between the top and bottom of the engine compartment. The ratio of the cooling air inlet-to-outlet areas appears to be around 1.05 on the stock cowling. Adding two purchased metal louvers would increase it to around 1.24. Measuring the pressure differential is certainly doable but I'm hoping other 6A or 7A owners will share advice based on adding louvers or otherwise improving the air flow through the lower cowling. Thanks. Jack H. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: High CHTs
Date: Sep 16, 2011
Based on what you state adding the louvers=2C or increasing the opening of the cowl outlet area=2C will definately lower oil and cylinder temps. Mike Robertson > From: jgh2(at)charter.net > Subject: RV-List: High CHTs > Date: Fri=2C 16 Sep 2011 08:35:05 -0400 > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > > My 6A with 54 hours on a new O-320 still produces CHTs exceeding 400 degr ees on all four cylinders when climbing to pattern altitude in 80 degree am bient conditions. They run around 380 degrees at cruise power leaned but th e EGTs are about 1430 degrees (the probes are about 2.5 inches from the exh aust flange). The oil temperature never exceeds 200 degrees=2C the flexible baffles seal tightly to the upper cowling=2C the upper cowl "eyebrow" ends are sealed=2C the ignition timing is correct and the carb jet ID has been increased by .003". > > I suspect the lower cowling air outlet area (obstructed by the nose gear strut=2C exhaust pipes=2C etc.) restricts the air flow needed to achieve Ly coming's recommended pressure differential between the top and bottom of th e engine compartment. The ratio of the cooling air inlet-to-outlet areas ap pears to be around 1.05 on the stock cowling. Adding two purchased metal lo uvers would increase it to around 1.24. Measuring the pressure differential is certainly doable but I'm hoping other 6A or 7A owners will share advice based on adding louvers or otherwise improving the air flow through the lo wer cowling. > > Thanks. > > Jack H. > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com>
Date: Sep 16, 2011
Subject: Re: High CHTs
Jack, are your wheel pants and gear leg fairings in place? Robin Sent from my iPad2. On Sep 16, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Mike Robertson wrote: Based on what you state adding the louvers, or increasing the opening of the cowl outlet area, will definately lower oil and cylinder temps. Mike Robertson > From: jgh2(at)charter.net > Subject: RV-List: High CHTs > Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 08:35:05 -0400 > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > > My 6A with 54 hours on a new O-320 still produces CHTs exceeding 400 degrees on all four cylinders when climbing to pattern altitude in 80 degree ambient conditions. They run around 380 degrees at cruise power leaned but the EGTs are about 1430 degrees (the probes are about 2.5 inches from the exhaust flange). The oil temperature never exceeds 200 degrees, the flexible baffles seal tightly to the upper cowling, the upper cowl "eyebrow" ends are sealed, the ignition timing is correct and the carb jet ID has been increased by .003". > > I suspect the lower cowling air outlet area (obstructed by the nose gear strut, exhaust pipes, etc.) restricts the air flow needed to achieve Lycoming's recommended pressure differential between the top and bottom of the engine compartment. The ratio of the cooling air inlet-to-outlet areas appears to be around 1.05 on the stock cowling. Adding two purchased metal louvers would increase it to around 1.24. Measuring the pressure differential is certainly doable but I'm hoping other 6A or 7A owners will share advice based on adding louvers or otherwise improving the air flow through the lower cowling. > > Thanks. > >===================== >============== > > * * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Knauf" <cknauf(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Tail Lynx
Date: Sep 17, 2011
My Tail Lynx kit came without any documentation. Could someone please send their plans/instructions to me at cknauf(at)comcast.net? Many thanks, Chris ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <bigdog(at)bentwing.com>
Subject: EI fuel level gauge error code question
Date: Sep 17, 2011
That sounds right. I left both points in in an attempt to improve the interpolation once the float starts to move. Glad you got it working. Greg Young From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2011 12:40 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: EI fuel level gauge error code question Indeed, the problem was that I had one calibration point at 15 gallons with a "Partial" code and another calibration point at 20 gallons with the "full" calibration code, only because the float is in the same position, both had the same resistance. EI was super although they said they'd never seen the R6 code before. Now they have. And so have you all (g). Maybe it'll help someone in the future. Oh, the solution was simply to go back to the Partial calibration point -- in my case CAL4 -- and change the "P" to an "F". No need to delete the CAL5 point; the EI will simply ignore it. But it seems to me your solution would also work. Bob On 9/16/2011 6:35 PM, Greg Young wrote: I got the R6 code too when I calibrated EI gauges in my Navion. It was several years ago so the memory is a little rusty but I believe it was from trying to have two identical calibration points. My Navion tanks slope like the RV and the full sender value does not represent tank capacity. I think I tried to use the same resistance value for 36 gals (sender full) and 39.5 (capacity). The resistance values need to always increase (or decrease if the reverse mode is set) from one point to the next. IIRC the fix was to manually set the capacity resistance value by +1 from the reading. EI was very helpful and stayed on the phone to literally walk through the whole calibration with me. Greg Young From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 8:26 AM Subject: RV-List: EI fuel level gauge error code question Anybody know what error code R6 means? The manual only lists error codes from R1 to R5. Clearly it's something in the right tank calibration, I just don't know what. Added 20 gallons of fuel to the 10-year-old RV project yesterday -- I think the tanks are now 8 years old. So far, no leaks. But want to get the calibration done so I can move on to test the fuel pump flow and then fire up the engine for the first time. Was hoping to do that this weekend but now it feels like it might be rushed. So maybe next weekend if I can get this question answered. Bob Collins St. Paul, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2011
From: Doug Weiler <dcw(at)mnwing.org>
Subject: Re: High CHTs
Jack: Our local RV tech counselor Tom Berge has gone through all of the various solutions to high CHTs in his RV-7A and he thinks he has finally found the solution. Check out his article "Plan S" in our September newsletter. Here is the link: http://www.mnwing.org/Sept2011.pdf Doug Weiler pres, Twin Cities RV Builder's Group On 9/16/2011 9:14 AM, Robin Marks wrote: > Jack, are your wheel pants and gear leg fairings in place? > > Robin > > Sent from my iPad2. > > On Sep 16, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Mike Robertson > wrote: > >> Based on what you state adding the louvers, or increasing the opening >> of the cowl outlet area, will definately lower oil and cylinder temps. >> >> Mike Robertson >> >> >> > From: jgh2(at)charter.net <mailto:jgh2(at)charter.net> >> > Subject: RV-List: High CHTs >> > Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 08:35:05 -0400 >> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >> > >> > >> > >> > My 6A with 54 hours on a new O-320 still produces CHTs exceeding >> 400 degrees on all four cylinders when climbing to pattern altitude >> in 80 degree ambient conditions. They run around 380 degrees at >> cruise power leaned but the EGTs are about 1430 degrees (the probes >> are about 2.5 inches from the exhaust flange). The oil temperature >> never exceeds 200 degrees, the flexible baffles seal tightly to the >> upper cowling, the upper cowl "eyebrow" ends are sealed, the ignition >> timing is correct and the carb jet ID has been increased by .003". >> > >> > I suspect the lower cowling air outlet area (obstructed by the nose >> gear strut, exhaust pipes, etc.) restricts the air flow needed to >> achieve Lycoming's recommended pressure differential between the top >> and bottom of the engine compartment. The ratio of the cooling air >> inlet-to-outlet areas appears to be around 1.05 on the stock cowling. >> Adding two purchased metal louvers would increase it to around 1.24. >> Measuring the pressure differential is certainly doable but I'm >> hoping other 6A or 7A owners will share advice based on adding >> louvers or otherwise improving the air flow through the lower cowling. >> > >> > Thanks. >> > >> >===================== >> >============== >> > >> > >> > >> * >> >> ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >> rums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> "http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2011
From: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Stiff slider on RV9
I am having difficulty with the canopy on my 9A. What happens is that it is essentially impossible to start it sliding from the closed position. I thought it was the rear pin blocks that were binding, but it does the same thing with them completely removed. If I am inside, I can get it started by slightly pushing up on the rear. From the outside, the only way is to pull up on the rear. Since the canopy rear skirts are not yet installed that is now possible, but when they are installed it will be impossible. Once I get it to move about 1/2 - 1 inch, then it moves back easily. I have checked everything I can think of and everything seems to be spot on, but I am obviously missing something. Has anyone run into this problem? Does anyone have suggestions as to what I should look for? Dick Tasker -- Please Note: No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however, that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced. -- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Stiff slider on RV9
From: Dale Ensing <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Date: Sep 19, 2011
Perhaps the angle of the rear slider Tee rail is too severe requiring the slider block to move too vertical from the closed position. My 6A has a little bit of the problem. I apply Boelube to the rail occasionally to ease the sticking. Dale Ensing Sent from my iPad On Sep 19, 2011, at 10:06 PM, "Richard E. Tasker" wrote: > > I am having difficulty with the canopy on my 9A. What happens is that it is essentially impossible to start it sliding from the closed position. > > I thought it was the rear pin blocks that were binding, but it does the same thing with them completely removed. > > If I am inside, I can get it started by slightly pushing up on the rear. From the outside, the only way is to pull up on the rear. Since the canopy rear skirts are not yet installed that is now possible, but when they are installed it will be impossible. Once I get it to move about 1/2 - 1 inch, then it moves back easily. > > I have checked everything I can think of and everything seems to be spot on, but I am obviously missing something. > > Has anyone run into this problem? Does anyone have suggestions as to what I should look for? > > Dick Tasker > > -- > Please Note: > No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however, > that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced. > -- > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jack Haviland <jgh2(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: High CHTs
Date: Sep 20, 2011
Doug, Thanks for forwarding the link - very interesting reading. If you see Tom Berge please give him my contact information. I'd like to ask some detail questions about his experience if he is willing. Jack H. 810.629.870 On Sep 18, 2011, at 6:58 PM, Doug Weiler wrote: > Jack: > > Our local RV tech counselor Tom Berge has gone through all of the various solutions to high CHTs in his RV-7A and he thinks he has finally found the solution. Check out his article "Plan S" in our September newsletter. Here is the link: > > http://www.mnwing.org/Sept2011.pdf > > Doug Weiler > pres, Twin Cities RV Builder's Group > > > > On 9/16/2011 9:14 AM, Robin Marks wrote: >> >> Jack, are your wheel pants and gear leg fairings in place? >> >> Robin >> >> Sent from my iPad2. >> >> On Sep 16, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Mike Robertson wrote: >> >>> Based on what you state adding the louvers, or increasing the opening of the cowl outlet area, will definately lower oil and cylinder temps. >>> >>> Mike Robertson >>> >>> >>> > From: jgh2(at)charter.net >>> > Subject: RV-List: High CHTs >>> > Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 08:35:05 -0400 >>> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >>> > >>> > >>> > My 6A with 54 hours on a new O-320 still produces CHTs exceeding 400 degrees on all four cylinders when climbing to pattern altitude in 80 degree ambient conditions. They run around 380 degrees at cruise power leaned but the EGTs are about 1430 degrees (the probes are about 2.5 inches from the exhaust flange). The oil temperature never exceeds 200 degrees, the flexible baffles seal tightly to the upper cowling, the upper cowl "eyebrow" ends are sealed, the ignition timing is correct and the carb jet ID has been increased by .003". >>> > >>> > I suspect the lower cowling air outlet area (obstructed by the nose gear strut, exhaust pipes, etc.) restricts the air flow needed to achieve Lycoming's recommended pressure differential between the top and bottom of the engine compartment. The ratio of the cooling air inlet-to-outlet areas appears to be around 1.05 on the stock cowling. Adding two purchased metal louvers would increase it to around 1.24. Measuring the pressure differential is certainly doable but I'm hoping other 6A or 7A owners will share advice based on adding louvers or otherwise improving the air flow through the lower cowling. >>> > >>> > Thanks. >>> > >>> >===================== >>> >============== >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?RV-List >>> rums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >>> "http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribut ion >>> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Charles Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com>
Subject: Stiff slider
Date: Sep 20, 2011
I had the same problem on my RV-6A. I added a small, aerodynamically shaped tab to the rear of each side skirt. By lifting up on the tab and pulling aft, my canopy opens easily. I made the tabs out of 1"x1" angle, approximately two inches long, They are riveted to the aft center part of the skirt on each side. I'll send a picture but it will probably be next week before I can get out to the airport. An alternative that I have seen, is a small door handle, or a handle made from a D shape (like the inside canopy lock handle) bolted to the rear of the top center stripe of the slider. The handle allows you to pull up and aft when the canopy is closed. Charlie Brame RV-6A N11CB San Antonio ---------------------------------------- > From: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> > Subject: RV-List: Stiff slider on RV9 > > > I am having difficulty with the canopy on my 9A. What happens is > that it is essentially > impossible to start it sliding from the closed position. > > I thought it was the rear pin blocks that were binding, but it does > the same thing > with them completely removed. > > If I am inside, I can get it started by slightly pushing up on the > rear. From the > outside, the only way is to pull up on the rear. Since the canopy > rear skirts > are not yet installed that is now > possible, but when they are installed it will be impossible. Once I > get it to move > about 1/2 - 1 inch, then it moves back easily. > > I have checked everything I can think of and everything seems to be > spot on, but > I am obviously missing something. > > Has anyone run into this problem? Does anyone have suggestions as to > what I should > look for? > > Dick Tasker ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Stiff slider
From: vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 20, 2011
Report it to your doctor if it lasts for more than 4 hrs....otherwise it's permanent. ;o) -----Original Message----- From: Charles Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com> com> Sent: Tue, Sep 20, 2011 8:29 am Subject: RV-List: Stiff slider I had the same problem on my RV-6A. I added a small, aerodynamically shaped tab to the rear of each side skirt. By lifting up on the tab and pulling aft, my canopy opens easily. I made t he tabs out of 1"x1" angle, approximately two inches long, They are riveted to the aft center part of the skirt on each side. I'll send a picture but it will probably be next week before I can get out to the airport. An alternative that I have seen, is a small door handle, or a handle made f rom a D shape (like the inside canopy lock handle) bolted to the rear of th e top center stripe of the slider. The handle allows you to pull up and aft when the canopy is closed. Charlie Brame RV-6A N11CB San Antonio ---------------------------------------- From: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> Subject: RV-List: Stiff slider on RV9 I am having difficulty with the canopy on my 9A. What happens is that it is essentially impossible to start it sliding from the closed position. I thought it was the rear pin blocks that were binding, but it does the sam e thing with them completely removed. If I am inside, I can get it started by slightly pushing up on the rear. Fr om the outside, the only way is to pull up on the rear. Since the canopy rear skir ts are not yet installed that is now possible, but when they are installed it will be impossible. Once I get it to move about 1/2 - 1 inch, then it moves back easily. I have checked everything I can think of and everything seems to be spot on , but I am obviously missing something. Has anyone run into this problem? Does anyone have suggestions as to what I should look for? Dick Tasker -= - The RV-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Shirley Harding" <rv6vhasf(at)gmail.com>
Subject: RV6 gear leg jack point
Date: Sep 29, 2011
What size is the clamp in the Vans gear leg jack point kit? Or to put it another way, what's the diameter of the RV6 gear leg above the wheel? I plan to make my own jack point but not sure what size clamp to buy. Thanks Shirley Harding RV6 flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV6 gear leg jack point
From: Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au>
Date: Sep 29, 2011
Shirley, The diameter of the lower gear leg on my RV-6 is 7/8", I only know this because I manufactured my own gear leg fairings. As far as clamps go, you need an exhaust pipe clamp. The smallest clamp that seems to be commonly available is 1 1/8" but this works just fine. It is sturdy enough and the nuts can be nipped down pretty hard and gives a secure jack point. For me this is not a permanent fixture, I fit & remove the clamp when required. Regards, Doug Sent from my iPad On 29/09/2011, at 5:37 PM, "Shirley Harding" wrote: > > > What size is the clamp in the Vans gear leg jack point kit? Or to put it > another way, what's the diameter of the RV6 gear leg above the wheel? I plan > to make my own jack point but not sure what size clamp to buy. > > Thanks > Shirley Harding > RV6 flying > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2011
From: Steve Eberhart <steve(at)newtech.com>
Subject: Wings and Wheels Fly-In/Cruise-In
Join us for our first annual *Wings and Wheels Fly-In/Cruise-In* http://www.eaa21.org October 15, 2011 Tri-State Aero Parking Lot on US 41 and General Aviation Ramp Evansville Regional Airport (EVV) Evansville, Indiana 10:00 AM to 3:00 PM Awards Presentation at 2:00 PM Doesn't matter if you're cruising on LAND, WATER or AIR... Just cruise on in /where we're making flying fun again!/ Free Admission Food Booths Travel and Vacation Vendors Military, General Aviation and Experimental Aircraft Displays Fly-In, Cruise-In Meet the Pilots and Drivers Door Prizes & 1/2 Pot Great Music with DJ Dance Exhibitions - E'ville Swing Cats Awards for Airplanes and Cruisers Awards to the Top 25 Award For Best Home-Built Electric Vehicle Commemorative Vinyl Decals to All Fly-In and Cruise-In Vehicles ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Who's in charge at Aircraft spruce?
Date: Oct 02, 2011
Folks, I need some contact information.. Generally, I have gotten good quality and service from these folks - not really trying to bash them - so I won't provide the details yet. I want to provide them with one more chance to get it right and improve their business process to provide a satisfaction level. So, who is in charge at Aircraft Spruce? I have already talked to a bunch of folks there - but no-one that I consider 'in-charge' yet. Ralph Capen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2011
From: Scott <acepilot(at)bloomer.net>
Subject: Re: Who's in charge at Aircraft spruce?
Last I heard, and as shown at their website, Jim Irwin is the "big nuts".... On 10-2-2011 14:12, Ralph E. Capen wrote: > > Folks, > > I need some contact information.... > > Generally, I have gotten good quality and service from these folks -- > not really trying to bash them -- so I won't provide the details yet. > I want to provide them with one more chance to get it right and > improve their business process to provide a satisfaction level. > > So, who is in charge at Aircraft Spruce? I have already talked to a > bunch of folks there -- but no-one that I consider 'in-charge' yet. > > Ralph Capen > > * > > > * -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Burden" <crb(at)commspeed.net>
Subject: Cottonwood, AZ Airfest (P52)
Date: Oct 02, 2011
Don't forget to put October 15th on your calendar for the great Cottonwood Airfest Fly In. It starts at 0700 with a pancake breakfast. There will be vintage aircraft, classic cars, kids events, etc. BBQ lunch starts at 1100. Cottonwood Municipal Airport (P52) 928-340-2777 http://ci.cottonwood.az.us/airport.php ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Who's in charge at Aircraft spruce?
From: vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 03, 2011
Jim Irwin. -----Original Message----- From: Ralph E. Capen <recapen(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Sun, Oct 2, 2011 7:11 am Subject: RV-List: Who's in charge at Aircraft spruce? Folks, I need some contact information. Generally, I have gotten good quality and service from these folks =93 not really trying to bash them =93 so I won=99t provide the details yet. I want to provide them with one more chance to get it right and improve their business process to provide a satisfaction level. So, who is in charge at Aircraft Spruce? I have already talked to a bunch of folks there =93 but no-one that I consider =98in-charge =99 yet. Ralph Capen -= - The RV-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 10, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Ameri-King AK-450 vs ACK E-10 Remote Control Panel...
Greetings Listers, I have an RV-6 with an ACK E-01 ELT unit and the small Remote Control Panel (RCP) unit. Last month, I completely replaced the instrument panel in the airplane and when I removed the ELT's RCP, I noticed that one of the mounting holes was broken off. I had another ELT on the shelf for another project and so I grabbed the RCP from it and designed a hole in the new instrument panel for it. The hole for this RCP was about twice the height of the hole for the RCP from the E-01 but appeared to be exactly the same as far as make and connector hole. Well, I didn't really put two and two together at the time but the E-01 is from ACK Technologies, and the RCP from the other unit is an Ameri-King AK-450. Except for the difference in vertical size the two RCP's look exactly the same and accept the same RJ-11 connector. Both have a Red and a Black button and a single Red LED. Both take a 3 volt battery. But here's the bummer, after I put everything back together this weekend, it turns out that the new RCP will NOT turn the E-01 on/off. If I plug the original E-01 RCP in to the same RJ-11 wire, it does turn the E-01 on/off, so the wiring and E-01 are fine. It just seems that the internal wiring of the two different RCP's is slightly different. The bigger bummer is that now I have a large hole in my panel for the RCP that doesn't work, so I have to figure something out. The original-sized RCP won't fit because its too small and the panel hole is too big. Can anyone lend any advice on the situation? Surely others have run into this before. Thanks! Matt Dralle - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ameri-King AK-450 vs ACK E-10 Remote Control Panel...
From: Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au>
Date: Oct 11, 2011
On 11/10/2011, at 3:53 AM, Matt Dralle wrote: > I have an RV-6 I cannot help with the encoder question, but what are you doing with an RV-6? There must be a story.... Doug Gray ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 10, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Ameri-King AK-450 vs ACK E-10 Remote Control Panel...
At 10:40 AM 10/10/2011 Monday, you wrote: > >On 11/10/2011, at 3:53 AM, Matt Dralle wrote: > >> I have an RV-6 > >I cannot help with the encoder question, but what are you doing with an RV-6? > >There must be a story.... > >Doug Gray Well, after flying 170 hours last year in my RV-8, to suddenly not have an RV to fly after the mishap in May, I decided to pick up an RV-6 "flyer" to tied me over until I got the RV-8 back in the air. After I flew the RV-6 for about 4 hours, I couldn't stand the Steam Gauge panel after having flow "all-glass" in the RV-8, so I decided to do a few "upgrades" to the RV-6. That was 6 weeks ago. New panel is almost done! Pictures of before and after as soon as I'm done, I promise. You won't believe the transformation! Matt - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ameri-King AK-450 vs ACK E-10 Remote Control Panel...
From: Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au>
Date: Oct 11, 2011
Matt, I figured it was something like that. Looking forward to the pictures. BTW I just love my 6. Doug RV-6 flying since July 2010 On 11/10/2011, at 4:47 AM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > At 10:40 AM 10/10/2011 Monday, you wrote: >> >> On 11/10/2011, at 3:53 AM, Matt Dralle wrote: >> >>> I have an RV-6 >> >> I cannot help with the encoder question, but what are you doing with an RV-6? >> >> There must be a story.... >> >> Doug Gray > > > Well, after flying 170 hours last year in my RV-8, to suddenly not have an RV to fly after the mishap in May, I decided to pick up an RV-6 "flyer" to tied me over until I got the RV-8 back in the air. After I flew the RV-6 for about 4 hours, I couldn't stand the Steam Gauge panel after having flow "all-glass" in the RV-8, so I decided to do a few "upgrades" to the RV-6. That was 6 weeks ago. New panel is almost done! Pictures of before and after as soon as I'm done, I promise. You won't believe the transformation! > > Matt > > > - > Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle > RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log > http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 10, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Ameri-King AK-450 vs ACK E-10 Remote Control Panel...
I just got an email back from ACK Tech and they said: "To use the Ameriking remote you must cut one end off the cable and turn it 180 degrees. - Mike Akatiff, ACK Technologies" Simple enough! Yahoo! Matt Dralle At 09:53 AM 10/10/2011 Monday, you wrote: > > >Greetings Listers, > >I have an RV-6 with an ACK E-01 ELT unit and the small Remote Control Panel (RCP) unit. Last month, I completely replaced the instrument panel in the airplane and when I removed the ELT's RCP, I noticed that one of the mounting holes was broken off. > >I had another ELT on the shelf for another project and so I grabbed the RCP from it and designed a hole in the new instrument panel for it. The hole for this RCP was about twice the height of the hole for the RCP from the E-01 but appeared to be exactly the same as far as make and connector hole. > >Well, I didn't really put two and two together at the time but the E-01 is from ACK Technologies, and the RCP from the other unit is an Ameri-King AK-450. Except for the difference in vertical size the two RCP's look exactly the same and accept the same RJ-11 connector. Both have a Red and a Black button and a single Red LED. Both take a 3 volt battery. > >But here's the bummer, after I put everything back together this weekend, it turns out that the new RCP will NOT turn the E-01 on/off. If I plug the original E-01 RCP in to the same RJ-11 wire, it does turn the E-01 on/off, so the wiring and E-01 are fine. It just seems that the internal wiring of the two different RCP's is slightly different. > >The bigger bummer is that now I have a large hole in my panel for the RCP that doesn't work, so I have to figure something out. The original-sized RCP won't fit because its too small and the panel hole is too big. > >Can anyone lend any advice on the situation? Surely others have run into this before. > >Thanks! > >Matt Dralle - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Matt Tucciarone" <m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Landing RV-8
Date: Oct 11, 2011
Hi everyone, My name is Matt and I bought an RV-8 last month and am trying to learn how to land it with a local tail wheel instructor. I am just about getting wheel landings (the kind the instructor prefers) but others are telling me I should be doing 3 pointers with this plane. I have 300 hours in a slow Aventura II seaplane and I always landed 3 points. So I asked my instructor if we could just try a 3 pointer in the RV. I did it but did not like the fact that you have a lot less visibility over the nose and I felt a little rough on the tail wheel at my grass strip. Any comments for a newbie? How do most of you land your RV? What are your approach speeds? Touchdown speeds? Thanks, Matt ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 11, 2011
Subject: Re: Landing RV-8
From: Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Most RV-8 pilots, including this one, prefer wheel landings. On Oct 11, 2011 8:22 AM, "Matt Tucciarone" wrote: > > > > Hi everyone, > My name is Matt and I bought an RV-8 last month and am trying to learn how > to land it with a local tail wheel instructor. I am just about getting wheel > landings (the kind the instructor prefers) but others are telling me I > should be doing 3 pointers with this plane. I have 300 hours in a slow > Aventura II seaplane and I always landed 3 points. So I asked my instructor > if we could just try a 3 pointer in the RV. I did it but did not like the > fact that you have a lot less visibility over the nose and I felt a little > rough on the tail wheel at my grass strip. > > Any comments for a newbie? How do most of you land your RV? What are your > approach speeds? Touchdown speeds? > > Thanks, > Matt > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Burton" <d-burton(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Landing RV-8
Date: Oct 11, 2011
While I can't give you any advice about landing a tailwheel airplane since 100% of my time is in tricycle gear, here is a pearl of wisdom of the designer of the RV8, Van himself: "I find it difficult to imagine how anyone can consistently land safely without a mastery of low speed control. While this point may be argued, the traditional landing objective is that of contacting the ground at or near minimum air speed. (A survey in the October 2010 issue of Sport Aviation showed a 52/48 percent preference for wheel landings over three-point landing. This would contradict my above statement of the "accepted" preferred landing technique. It could mean that while the textbook dictate is the 3-point landing, user preference is a higher touch down speed "wheel" landing. If so, one explanation could be that most pilots prefer the wheel landing because it is smoother for them, or it could mean that they lack the skills or confidence to do 3-point landings." He goes on to discuss the gear failures experienced by RVs and comments about the thousands of demo flights off the old grass strip at the factory, with no incidents. His point is that pilots tend to land too fast for the conditions. I had the experience of walking! alongside the RV-9A while he was landing once. Amazing. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Paul Rice <rice737(at)msn.com>
Subject: Landing RV-8
Date: Oct 11, 2011
Hey Matt=2C I have about 300 hours in my RV8=2C and I am a 50/50 guy. Man y people would say that you are in a less risky spot doing a 3 pointer beca use you are going slower at touch down=2C and I can not disagree with that. I'f I want to land short=2C I usually set up for a 3 pointer. And yes=2C you can hit the tailwheel first=2C even more likely if you have a passenge r in the back=2C not a problem if you don't stall it from 5 feet up. If I have plenty of runway=2C I set up for a wheel landing=2C as it is easy to g rease on in that position. Visability over the nose should not be a factor in the -8 in the three pointer=2C unless you are in the back seat of cours e=2C and if you can land it from there well=2C you shouldn't have any prob lem in any tailwheel airplane. PaulRV8Flying Siren > From: m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > Date: Tue=2C 11 Oct 2011 08:18:27 -0400 > m> > > Hi everyone=2C > My name is Matt and I bought an RV-8 last month and am trying to learn ho w > to land it with a local tail wheel instructor. I am just about getting wh eel > landings (the kind the instructor prefers) but others are telling me I > should be doing 3 pointers with this plane. I have 300 hours in a slow > Aventura II seaplane and I always landed 3 points. So I asked my instruct or > if we could just try a 3 pointer in the RV. I did it but did not like the > fact that you have a lot less visibility over the nose and I felt a littl e > rough on the tail wheel at my grass strip. > > Any comments for a newbie? How do most of you land your RV? What are your > approach speeds? Touchdown speeds? > > Thanks=2C > Matt > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Landing RV-8
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Date: Oct 11, 2011
I had an RV-4 for 9 years and 95% of the time I did 3 point landings. I am on a 2155' grass strip. The only time I did wheel landings was when I was carrying too much speed or in gusty/ cross wind conditions when I used less flaps and carried more speed. I'd typically go 90 mph on downwind, 80 mph on base, 70 mph on final, and bleed down to stall speed as I cross the numbers.... Sent from my iPhone On Oct 11, 2011, at 8:18 AM, "Matt Tucciarone" wrote: > > Hi everyone, > My name is Matt and I bought an RV-8 last month and am trying to learn how to land it with a local tail wheel instructor. I am just about getting wheel landings (the kind the instructor prefers) but others are telling me I should be doing 3 pointers with this plane. I have 300 hours in a slow Aventura II seaplane and I always landed 3 points. So I asked my instructor if we could just try a 3 pointer in the RV. I did it but did not like the fact that you have a lot less visibility over the nose and I felt a little rough on the tail wheel at my grass strip. > > Any comments for a newbie? How do most of you land your RV? What are your approach speeds? Touchdown speeds? > > Thanks, > Matt > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 11, 2011
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Landing RV-8
Can't help wondering what kind of tail wheel instructor you have who prefers wheel landings, seems a bit strange. I have over 880 hours in my RV-6 and 99% of my landings are three point (at least that's what I intended). I did not install the wooden gear leg stiffeners and I find it difficult to do a decent wheel landing without at least one hop. RV-8's may have different landing characteristics vs the RV-6. Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 883 hours Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 883 hours ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Tucciarone" <m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:18:27 AM Subject: RV-List: Landing RV-8 Hi everyone, My name is Matt and I bought an RV-8 last month and am trying to learn how to land it with a local tail wheel instructor. I am just about getting wheel landings (the kind the instructor prefers) but others are telling me I should be doing 3 pointers with this plane. I have 300 hours in a slow Aventura II seaplane and I always landed 3 points. So I asked my instructor if we could just try a 3 pointer in the RV. I did it but did not like the fact that you have a lot less visibility over the nose and I felt a little rough on the tail wheel at my grass strip. Any comments for a newbie? How do most of you land your RV? What are your approach speeds? Touchdown speeds? Thanks, Matt ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Stall warning vane tone generator
From: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net>
Date: Oct 11, 2011
> Listers: I have lost the second sheet of instructions that go with the stall warning kit for the RV 7 etc. If someone has it I need to know the wiring slots call out for the tone generator board. There are four slots. Surely they are power in; vane wire in; ground; and signal out. I just don't know which is which.. If someone knows please give me the order from left to right, with the slots on the bottom.\ Thank you. Denis ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John DeCuir <jadecuir(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Need Instructor/Aircraft
Date: Oct 12, 2011
Fellow listers, I'm in need of an Instructor with a Dual control RV to familiarize a fellow pilot with RV's. He will be flying my RV4 occasionally after he's insured and qualified. He has tons of hours ( Air Force with DC-3 gunship tour in Viet Nam, retired Airline pilot) but will need an RV endorsement in the logbook to satisfy the insurance people. We're in Salinas, CA, but he would be willing to meet anywhere within about 100 miles of there. John DeCuir N204CP, RV4 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill Judge <bjudge(at)gmail.com>
Date: Oct 12, 2011
Subject: Re: Landing RV-8
Matt, The RV-8 has a different gear configuration than the -4, -6 and -7 so what works well in those planes doesn't necessarily apply in a -8. The 8 has spring gear like a citibria or a C-170 while all the others all have Whitman style tapered rods. In talking to people who fly the tapered rod type gear you find out that the tapered rods have an issue with changing the direction of the wheels when they get compressed which makes tailwheel flying interesting and less so when you go slower. So lots of them prefer a min speed 3 pt to minimize capital losses and hurt pride. If I land my -8 in a 3 pt attitude it will "crow hop" many times: the angle of the 3pt attitude isn't steep enough to stall the wing. It seems like everything has to be just right to get a smooth 3pt, you basically have to fly the right attitude on to the pavement and continue to fly that attitude during the roll as opposed to the C-170 and Citibria where you can get down to a foot off the ground and totally get away with gradually putting the stick in your gut and not bouncing at all. You could do the sailplane technique and land tail first but I think this "belly flop" type landing is abusive and so we're left with the other alternative of doing a wheelie. So, unless I'm landing on a rough strip I do tail low wheelies, touching down at around 60 knots. After you get the technique down pat(on pavement) you can have a butter smooth landing every single time which, to me, is less wear and tear than the regular crow hopping and tail first alternatives. Once you get the technique of wheelies down pat doing a 3pt or a tail first becomes very easy when you need it. I personally like wheelies because you get to pick more accurately where the wheels will first touch as opposed to the "wait for it" full stall landing. The kicker is that once you're really on your game you can brake aggressively just after touch down while managing the attitude with the elevator then stop the braking when you start to lose elevator authority, put the tail down, stick in your gut, and start breaking again. This is an advanced technique that is right out of stick and rudder, nobody teaches it anymore but it can be done and end up with very short landing rolls while still doing a wheelie. The advantage here is that you get more control over where you touch down by virtue of doing a wheelie and then if you need to you can brake aggressively and end up with landing roll that is very similar to a 3 pt min speed roll. Bill N84WJ, RV-8, 665 hrs, KSEE based rv-8.blogspot.com On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 12:00 AM, RV-List Digest Server < rv-list(at)matronics.com> wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete RV-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the RV-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 11-10-11&Archive=RV > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 11-10-11&Archive=RV > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > RV-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Tue 10/11/11: 7 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 05:21 AM - Landing RV-8 (Matt Tucciarone) > 2. 05:35 AM - Re: Landing RV-8 (Larry Bowen) > 3. 06:20 AM - Re: Landing RV-8 (David Burton) > 4. 06:54 AM - Re: Landing RV-8 (Paul Rice) > 5. 09:33 AM - Re: Landing RV-8 (Michael Kraus) > 6. 10:24 AM - Re: Landing RV-8 (HCRV6(at)comcast.net) > 7. 08:14 PM - Stall warning vane tone generator (Denis Walsh) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "Matt Tucciarone" <m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com> > Subject: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > > > Hi everyone, > My name is Matt and I bought an RV-8 last month and am trying to learn how > to land it with a local tail wheel instructor. I am just about getting > wheel > landings (the kind the instructor prefers) but others are telling me I > should be doing 3 pointers with this plane. I have 300 hours in a slow > Aventura II seaplane and I always landed 3 points. So I asked my instructor > if we could just try a 3 pointer in the RV. I did it but did not like the > fact that you have a lot less visibility over the nose and I felt a little > rough on the tail wheel at my grass strip. > > Any comments for a newbie? How do most of you land your RV? What are your > approach speeds? Touchdown speeds? > > Thanks, > Matt > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > From: Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowenaero.com> > > Most RV-8 pilots, including this one, prefer wheel landings. > On Oct 11, 2011 8:22 AM, "Matt Tucciarone" > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > My name is Matt and I bought an RV-8 last month and am trying to learn > how > > to land it with a local tail wheel instructor. I am just about getting > wheel > > landings (the kind the instructor prefers) but others are telling me I > > should be doing 3 pointers with this plane. I have 300 hours in a slow > > Aventura II seaplane and I always landed 3 points. So I asked my > instructor > > if we could just try a 3 pointer in the RV. I did it but did not like the > > fact that you have a lot less visibility over the nose and I felt a > little > > rough on the tail wheel at my grass strip. > > > > Any comments for a newbie? How do most of you land your RV? What are your > > approach speeds? Touchdown speeds? > > > > Thanks, > > Matt > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "David Burton" <d-burton(at)comcast.net> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > > > While I can't give you any advice about landing a tailwheel airplane since > 100% of my time is in tricycle gear, here is a pearl of wisdom of the > designer of the RV8, Van himself: > > "I find it difficult to imagine how anyone can consistently > land safely without a mastery of low speed control. > While this point may be argued, the traditional landing > objective is that of contacting the ground at or near minimum > air speed. (A survey in the October 2010 issue of > Sport Aviation showed a 52/48 percent preference for > wheel landings over three-point landing. This would contradict > my above statement of the "accepted" preferred > landing technique. It could mean that while the textbook > dictate is the 3-point landing, user preference is a higher > touch down speed "wheel" landing. If so, one explanation > could be that most pilots prefer the wheel landing > because it is smoother for them, or it could mean that > they lack the skills or confidence to do 3-point landings." > > He goes on to discuss the gear failures experienced by RVs and comments > about the thousands of demo flights off the old grass strip at the factory, > with no incidents. His point is that pilots tend to land too fast for the > conditions. I had the experience of walking! alongside the RV-9A while he > was landing once. Amazing. > > > ________________________________ Message 4 > _____________________________________ > > > From: Paul Rice <rice737(at)msn.com> > Subject: RE: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > > > Hey Matt=2C I have about 300 hours in my RV8=2C and I am a 50/50 guy. Man > y people would say that you are in a less risky spot doing a 3 pointer beca > use you are going slower at touch down=2C and I can not disagree with that. > I'f I want to land short=2C I usually set up for a 3 pointer. And yes=2C > you can hit the tailwheel first=2C even more likely if you have a passenge > r in the back=2C not a problem if you don't stall it from 5 feet up. If I > have plenty of runway=2C I set up for a wheel landing=2C as it is easy to g > rease on in that position. Visability over the nose should not be a factor > in the -8 in the three pointer=2C unless you are in the back seat of cours > e=2C and if you can land it from there well=2C you shouldn't have any prob > lem in any tailwheel airplane. PaulRV8Flying Siren > > From: m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > > Date: Tue=2C 11 Oct 2011 08:18:27 -0400 > > > m> > > > > Hi everyone=2C > > My name is Matt and I bought an RV-8 last month and am trying to learn ho > w > > to land it with a local tail wheel instructor. I am just about getting wh > eel > > landings (the kind the instructor prefers) but others are telling me I > > should be doing 3 pointers with this plane. I have 300 hours in a slow > > Aventura II seaplane and I always landed 3 points. So I asked my instruct > or > > if we could just try a 3 pointer in the RV. I did it but did not like the > > > fact that you have a lot less visibility over the nose and I felt a littl > e > > rough on the tail wheel at my grass strip. > > > > Any comments for a newbie? How do most of you land your RV? What are your > > > approach speeds? Touchdown speeds? > > > > Thanks=2C > > Matt > > > > > ========== > ========== > ========== > ========== > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 > _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> > > > I had an RV-4 for 9 years and 95% of the time I did 3 point landings. I am > on > a 2155' grass strip. The only time I did wheel landings was when I was > carrying > too much speed or in gusty/ cross wind conditions when I used less flaps > and > carried more speed. > > I'd typically go 90 mph on downwind, 80 mph on base, 70 mph on final, and > bleed > down to stall speed as I cross the numbers.... > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 11, 2011, at 8:18 AM, "Matt Tucciarone" > wrote: > > > > > Hi everyone, > > My name is Matt and I bought an RV-8 last month and am trying to learn > how to > land it with a local tail wheel instructor. I am just about getting wheel > landings > (the kind the instructor prefers) but others are telling me I should be > doing 3 pointers with this plane. I have 300 hours in a slow Aventura II > seaplane > and I always landed 3 points. So I asked my instructor if we could just try > a 3 pointer in the RV. I did it but did not like the fact that you have a > lot > less visibility over the nose and I felt a little rough on the tail wheel > at > my grass strip. > > > > Any comments for a newbie? How do most of you land your RV? What are your > approach > speeds? Touchdown speeds? > > > > Thanks, > > Matt > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 > _____________________________________ > > > From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net > Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > > Can't help wondering what kind of tail wheel instructor you have who > prefers wheel > landings, seems a bit strange. I have over 880 hours in my RV-6 and 99% of > my landings are three point (at least that's what I intended). I did not > install > the wooden gear leg stiffeners and I find it difficult to do a decent wheel > landing without at least one hop. > > RV-8's may have different landing characteristics vs the RV-6. > > > Harry Crosby > RV-6 N16CX, 883 hours > > > Harry Crosby > RV-6 N16CX, 883 hours > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matt Tucciarone" <m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com> > Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:18:27 AM > Subject: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > > > Hi everyone, > My name is Matt and I bought an RV-8 last month and am trying to learn how > to land it with a local tail wheel instructor. I am just about getting > wheel > landings (the kind the instructor prefers) but others are telling me I > should be doing 3 pointers with this plane. I have 300 hours in a slow > Aventura II seaplane and I always landed 3 points. So I asked my instructor > if we could just try a 3 pointer in the RV. I did it but did not like the > fact that you have a lot less visibility over the nose and I felt a little > rough on the tail wheel at my grass strip. > > Any comments for a newbie? How do most of you land your RV? What are your > approach speeds? Touchdown speeds? > > Thanks, > Matt > > > ________________________________ Message 7 > _____________________________________ > > > Subject: RV-List: Stall warning vane tone generator > From: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net> > > > > Listers: > I have lost the second sheet of instructions that go with the stall > warning kit for the RV 7 etc. > > If someone has it I need to know the wiring slots call out for the tone > generator board. There are four slots. Surely they are power in; vane > wire in; ground; and signal out. I just don't know which is which.. > > If someone knows please give me the order from left to right, with the > slots on the bottom.\ > > > Thank you. > > Denis > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Landing RV-8
From: "Bubblehead" <jdalmansr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Oct 12, 2011
I have about 400 hours on my RV-8 and when I first flew it, wheel landings were a lot easier and more consistent. It just seemed to squeak on with the tail slightly low and just above a stall, especially when flying solo. After about 50 landings or so I started working on 3-point landings. It just gives a little different look over the nose and I was initially a little high on full flare and would bounce a little. Now I use either one depending on conditions. Cross wind and gusty I like wheel landings and other times full stall. When a passenger is in the back the 3-point landing is a little touchy. It seems to stall quicker and with less warning but still very controllable throughout the landing. In summary, both are very doable, and I think you should learn and practice both with the CG in many locations. It never hurts to have more options to chose from. -------- John Keller, TX RV-8 N247TD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354813#354813 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 12, 2011
Subject: Re: Landing RV-8
From: Matt Tucciarone <m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com>
Thanks Bill and others who have been commenting. I did get some time in a Citabria before going to the rv and it is similar. Just a little slower on approach. I have been coming in around final at ar ound 80 knots. The best landing I have made to date was a tail low wheel landing. Hopefully soon I will get the hang of this Bill Judge wrote: Matt=2C The RV-8 has a different gear configuration than the -4=2C -6 and -7 so wha t works well in those planes doesn't necessarily apply in a -8. The 8 has spring gear like a citibria or a C-170 while all the others all have Whitman style tapered rods. In talking to people who fly the tapered rod type gear you find out that th e tapered rods have an issue with changing the direction of the wheels when they get compressed which makes tailwheel flying interesting and less so when you go slower. So lots of them prefer a min speed 3 pt to minimize capital losses and hurt pride. If I land my -8 in a 3 pt attitude it will "crow hop" many times: the angle of the 3pt attitude isn't steep enough to stall the wing. It seems like everything has to be just right to get a smooth 3pt=2C you basically have t o fly the right attitude on to the pavement and continue to fly that attitude during the roll as opposed to the C-170 and Citibria where you can get down to a foot off the ground and totally get away with gradually putting the stick in your gut and not bouncing at all. You could do the sailplane technique and land tail first but I think this "belly flop" type landing is abusive and so we're left with the other alternative of doing a wheelie. So=2C unless I'm landing on a rough strip I do tail low wheelies=2C touchin g down at around 60 knots. After you get the technique down pat(on pavement) you can have a butter smooth landing every single time which=2C to me=2C is less wear and tear than the regular crow hopping and tail first alternatives. Once you get the technique of wheelies down pat doing a 3pt or a tail first becomes very easy when you need it. I personally like wheelies because you get to pick more accurately where th e wheels will first touch as opposed to the "wait for it" full stall landing. The kicker is that once you're really on your game you can brake aggressively just after touch down while managing the attitude with the elevator then stop the braking when you start to lose elevator authority=2C put the tail down=2C stick in your gut=2C and start breaking again. This is an advanced technique that is right out of stick and rudder=2C nobody teaches it anymore but it can be done and end up with very short landing rolls while still doing a wheelie. The advantage here is that you get more control over where you touch down by virtue of doing a wheelie and then if you need to you can brake aggressively and end up with landing roll that is very simila r to a 3 pt min speed roll. Bill N84WJ=2C RV-8=2C 665 hrs=2C KSEE based rv-8.blogspot.com On Wed=2C Oct 12=2C 2011 at 12:00 AM=2C RV-List Digest Server < rv-list(at)matronics.com> wrote: > * > > ======================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ======================== > > Today's complete RV-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the RV-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html& Chapter 11-10-11&Archive=RV > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C hapter 11-10-11&Archive=RV > > > ======================== ======================= > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ======================== ======================= > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > RV-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Tue 10/11/11: 7 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 05:21 AM - Landing RV-8 (Matt Tucciarone) > 2. 05:35 AM - Re: Landing RV-8 (Larry Bowen) > 3. 06:20 AM - Re: Landing RV-8 (David Burton) > 4. 06:54 AM - Re: Landing RV-8 (Paul Rice) > 5. 09:33 AM - Re: Landing RV-8 (Michael Kraus) > 6. 10:24 AM - Re: Landing RV-8 (HCRV6(at)comcast.net) > 7. 08:14 PM - Stall warning vane tone generator (Denis Walsh) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "Matt Tucciarone" <m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com> > Subject: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > > > Hi everyone=2C > My name is Matt and I bought an RV-8 last month and am trying to learn ho w > to land it with a local tail wheel instructor. I am just about getting > wheel > landings (the kind the instructor prefers) but others are telling me I > should be doing 3 pointers with this plane. I have 300 hours in a slow > Aventura II seaplane and I always landed 3 points. So I asked my instruct or > if we could just try a 3 pointer in the RV. I did it but did not like the > fact that you have a lot less visibility over the nose and I felt a littl e > rough on the tail wheel at my grass strip. > > Any comments for a newbie? How do most of you land your RV? What are your > approach speeds? Touchdown speeds? > > Thanks=2C > Matt > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > From: Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowenaero.com> > > Most RV-8 pilots=2C including this one=2C prefer wheel landings. > On Oct 11=2C 2011 8:22 AM=2C "Matt Tucciarone" > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi everyone=2C > > My name is Matt and I bought an RV-8 last month and am trying to learn > how > > to land it with a local tail wheel instructor. I am just about getting > wheel > > landings (the kind the instructor prefers) but others are telling me I > > should be doing 3 pointers with this plane. I have 300 hours in a slow > > Aventura II seaplane and I always landed 3 points. So I asked my > instructor > > if we could just try a 3 pointer in the RV. I did it but did not like t he > > fact that you have a lot less visibility over the nose and I felt a > little > > rough on the tail wheel at my grass strip. > > > > Any comments for a newbie? How do most of you land your RV? What are yo ur > > approach speeds? Touchdown speeds? > > > > Thanks=2C > > Matt > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "David Burton" <d-burton(at)comcast.net> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > > > While I can't give you any advice about landing a tailwheel airplane sinc e > 100% of my time is in tricycle gear=2C here is a pearl of wisdom of the > designer of the RV8=2C Van himself: > > "I find it difficult to imagine how anyone can consistently > land safely without a mastery of low speed control. > While this point may be argued=2C the traditional landing > objective is that of contacting the ground at or near minimum > air speed. (A survey in the October 2010 issue of > Sport Aviation showed a 52/48 percent preference for > wheel landings over three-point landing. This would contradict > my above statement of the "accepted" preferred > landing technique. It could mean that while the textbook > dictate is the 3-point landing=2C user preference is a higher > touch down speed "wheel" landing. If so=2C one explanation > could be that most pilots prefer the wheel landing > because it is smoother for them=2C or it could mean that > they lack the skills or confidence to do 3-point landings." > > He goes on to discuss the gear failures experienced by RVs and comments > about the thousands of demo flights off the old grass strip at the factor y=2C > with no incidents. His point is that pilots tend to land too fast for th e > conditions. I had the experience of walking! alongside the RV-9A while h e > was landing once. Amazing. > > > ________________________________ Message 4 > _____________________________________ > > > From: Paul Rice <rice737(at)msn.com> > Subject: RE: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > > > Hey Matt=2C I have about 300 hours in my RV8=2C and I am a 50/50 guy . Man > y people would say that you are in a less risky spot doing a 3 pointer be ca > use you are going slower at touch down=2C and I can not disagree with t hat. > I'f I want to land short=2C I usually set up for a 3 pointer. And yes =2C > you can hit the tailwheel first=2C even more likely if you have a pass enge > r in the back=2C not a problem if you don't stall it from 5 feet up. I f I > have plenty of runway=2C I set up for a wheel landing=2C as it is eas y to g > rease on in that position. Visability over the nose should not be a fact or > in the -8 in the three pointer=2C unless you are in the back seat of c ours > e=2C and if you can land it from there well=2C you shouldn't have an y prob > lem in any tailwheel airplane. PaulRV8Flying Siren > > From: m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > > Date: Tue=2C 11 Oct 2011 08:18:27 -0400 > > > m> > > > > Hi everyone=2C > > My name is Matt and I bought an RV-8 last month and am trying to learn ho > w > > to land it with a local tail wheel instructor. I am just about getting wh > eel > > landings (the kind the instructor prefers) but others are telling me I > > should be doing 3 pointers with this plane. I have 300 hours in a slow > > Aventura II seaplane and I always landed 3 points. So I asked my instru ct > or > > if we could just try a 3 pointer in the RV. I did it but did not like t he > > > fact that you have a lot less visibility over the nose and I felt a lit tl > e > > rough on the tail wheel at my grass strip. > > > > Any comments for a newbie? How do most of you land your RV? What are yo ur > > > approach speeds? Touchdown speeds? > > > > Thanks=2C > > Matt > > > > > ========== > ========== > ========== > ========== > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 > _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> > > > I had an RV-4 for 9 years and 95% of the time I did 3 point landings. I am > on > a 2155' grass strip. The only time I did wheel landings was when I was > carrying > too much speed or in gusty/ cross wind conditions when I used less flaps > and > carried more speed. > > I'd typically go 90 mph on downwind=2C 80 mph on base=2C 70 mph on final =2C and > bleed > down to stall speed as I cross the numbers.... > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 11=2C 2011=2C at 8:18 AM=2C "Matt Tucciarone" <m.tucciarone@hotmai l.com> > wrote: > > > > > Hi everyone=2C > > My name is Matt and I bought an RV-8 last month and am trying to learn > how to > land it with a local tail wheel instructor. I am just about getting wheel > landings > (the kind the instructor prefers) but others are telling me I should be > doing 3 pointers with this plane. I have 300 hours in a slow Aventura II > seaplane > and I always landed 3 points. So I asked my instructor if we could just t ry > a 3 pointer in the RV. I did it but did not like the fact that you have a > lot > less visibility over the nose and I felt a little rough on the tail wheel > at > my grass strip. > > > > Any comments for a newbie? How do most of you land your RV? What are yo ur > approach > speeds? Touchdown speeds? > > > > Thanks=2C > > Matt > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 > _____________________________________ > > > From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net > Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > > Can't help wondering what kind of tail wheel instructor you have who > prefers wheel > landings=2C seems a bit strange. I have over 880 hours in my RV-6 and 99% of > my landings are three point (at least that's what I intended). I did not > install > the wooden gear leg stiffeners and I find it difficult to do a decent whe el > landing without at least one hop. > > RV-8's may have different landing characteristics vs the RV-6. > > > Harry Crosby > RV-6 N16CX=2C 883 hours > > > Harry Crosby > RV-6 N16CX=2C 883 hours > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matt Tucciarone" <m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com> > Sent: Tuesday=2C October 11=2C 2011 5:18:27 AM > Subject: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > > > Hi everyone=2C > My name is Matt and I bought an RV-8 last month and am trying to learn ho w > to land it with a local tail wheel instructor. I am just about getting > wheel > landings (the kind the instructor prefers) but others are telling me I > should be doing 3 pointers with this plane. I have 300 hours in a slow > Aventura II seaplane and I always landed 3 points. So I asked my instruct or > if we could just try a 3 pointer in the RV. I did it but did not like the > fact that you have a lot less visibility over the nose and I felt a littl e > rough on the tail wheel at my grass strip. > > Any comments for a newbie? How do most of you land your RV? What are your > approach speeds? Touchdown speeds? > > Thanks=2C > Matt > > > ________________________________ Message 7 > _____________________________________ > > > Subject: RV-List: Stall warning vane tone generator > From: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net> > > > > Listers: > I have lost the second sheet of instructions that go with the stall > warning kit for the RV 7 etc. > > If someone has it I need to know the wiring slots call out for the tone > generator board. There are four slots. Surely they are power in=3B vane > wire in=3B ground=3B and signal out. I just don't know which is which.. > > If someone knows please give me the order from left to right=2C with the > slots on the bottom.\ > > > Thank you. > > Denis > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 12, 2011
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: Landing RV-8
The C190/195 and C170 series have a Wittman spring steel gear of flat spring steel. The tubular gear of later model Cessnas and RV was a later development. A C170B (the model I have ~700 hours in) can be landed equally well with wheel or 3 pt landings, and preference will depend on recency of experience, wind and loading. It seemed to ebb and flow which I preferred. Can't comment on RV landings as the only RV's I've had the pleasure of flying were nose wheel. On 10/12/2011 8:16 AM, Bill Judge wrote: > Matt, > The RV-8 has a different gear configuration than the -4, -6 and -7 so > what works well in those planes doesn't necessarily apply in a -8. The > 8 has spring gear like a citibria or a C-170 while all the others all > have Whitman style tapered rods. > > In talking to people who fly the tapered rod type gear you find out > that the tapered rods have an issue with changing the direction of the > wheels when they get compressed which makes tailwheel flying > interesting and less so when you go slower. So lots of them prefer a > min speed 3 pt to minimize capital losses and hurt pride. > > If I land my -8 in a 3 pt attitude it will "crow hop" many times: the > angle of the 3pt attitude isn't steep enough to stall the wing. It > seems like everything has to be just right to get a smooth 3pt, you > basically have to fly the right attitude on to the pavement and > continue to fly that attitude during the roll as opposed to the C-170 > and Citibria where you can get down to a foot off the ground and > totally get away with gradually putting the stick in your gut and not > bouncing at all. > > You could do the sailplane technique and land tail first but I think > this "belly flop" type landing is abusive and so we're left with the > other alternative of doing a wheelie. > > So, unless I'm landing on a rough strip I do tail low wheelies, > touching down at around 60 knots. After you get the technique down > pat(on pavement) you can have a butter smooth landing every single > time which, to me, is less wear and tear than the regular crow hopping > and tail first alternatives. > > Once you get the technique of wheelies down pat doing a 3pt or a tail > first becomes very easy when you need it. > > I personally like wheelies because you get to pick > more accurately where the wheels will first touch as opposed to the > "wait for it" full stall landing. > > The kicker is that once you're really on your game you can brake > aggressively just after touch down while managing the attitude with > the elevator then stop the braking when you start to lose elevator > authority, put the tail down, stick in your gut, and start breaking > again. This is an advanced technique that is right out of stick and > rudder, nobody teaches it anymore but it can be done and end up with > very short landing rolls while still doing a wheelie. The advantage > here is that you get more control over where you touch down by virtue > of doing a wheelie and then if you need to you can brake aggressively > and end up with landing roll that is very similar to a 3 pt min speed > roll. > > Bill > N84WJ, RV-8, 665 hrs, KSEE based > rv-8.blogspot.com <http://rv-8.blogspot.com> > > > On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 12:00 AM, RV-List Digest Server > > wrote: > > * > > ======================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ======================== > > Today's complete RV-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest > formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked > Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII > version > of the RV-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 11-10-11&Archive=RV > <http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 11-10-11&Archive=RV> > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 11-10-11&Archive=RV > <http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 11-10-11&Archive=RV> > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > RV-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Tue 10/11/11: 7 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 05:21 AM - Landing RV-8 (Matt Tucciarone) > 2. 05:35 AM - Re: Landing RV-8 (Larry Bowen) > 3. 06:20 AM - Re: Landing RV-8 (David Burton) > 4. 06:54 AM - Re: Landing RV-8 (Paul Rice) > 5. 09:33 AM - Re: Landing RV-8 (Michael Kraus) > 6. 10:24 AM - Re: Landing RV-8 (HCRV6(at)comcast.net > ) > 7. 08:14 PM - Stall warning vane tone generator (Denis Walsh) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "Matt Tucciarone" <m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com > > > Subject: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > > > Hi everyone, > My name is Matt and I bought an RV-8 last month and am trying to > learn how > to land it with a local tail wheel instructor. I am just about > getting wheel > landings (the kind the instructor prefers) but others are telling me I > should be doing 3 pointers with this plane. I have 300 hours in a slow > Aventura II seaplane and I always landed 3 points. So I asked my > instructor > if we could just try a 3 pointer in the RV. I did it but did not > like the > fact that you have a lot less visibility over the nose and I felt > a little > rough on the tail wheel at my grass strip. > > Any comments for a newbie? How do most of you land your RV? What > are your > approach speeds? Touchdown speeds? > > Thanks, > Matt > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > From: Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowenaero.com <mailto:larry(at)bowenaero.com>> > > Most RV-8 pilots, including this one, prefer wheel landings. > On Oct 11, 2011 8:22 AM, "Matt Tucciarone" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > My name is Matt and I bought an RV-8 last month and am trying to > learn how > > to land it with a local tail wheel instructor. I am just about > getting wheel > > landings (the kind the instructor prefers) but others are > telling me I > > should be doing 3 pointers with this plane. I have 300 hours in > a slow > > Aventura II seaplane and I always landed 3 points. So I asked my > instructor > > if we could just try a 3 pointer in the RV. I did it but did not > like the > > fact that you have a lot less visibility over the nose and I > felt a little > > rough on the tail wheel at my grass strip. > > > > Any comments for a newbie? How do most of you land your RV? What > are your > > approach speeds? Touchdown speeds? > > > > Thanks, > > Matt > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "David Burton" <d-burton(at)comcast.net > > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > > > While I can't give you any advice about landing a tailwheel > airplane since > 100% of my time is in tricycle gear, here is a pearl of wisdom of the > designer of the RV8, Van himself: > > "I find it difficult to imagine how anyone can consistently > land safely without a mastery of low speed control. > While this point may be argued, the traditional landing > objective is that of contacting the ground at or near minimum > air speed. (A survey in the October 2010 issue of > Sport Aviation showed a 52/48 percent preference for > wheel landings over three-point landing. This would contradict > my above statement of the "accepted" preferred > landing technique. It could mean that while the textbook > dictate is the 3-point landing, user preference is a higher > touch down speed "wheel" landing. If so, one explanation > could be that most pilots prefer the wheel landing > because it is smoother for them, or it could mean that > they lack the skills or confidence to do 3-point landings." > > He goes on to discuss the gear failures experienced by RVs and > comments > about the thousands of demo flights off the old grass strip at the > factory, > with no incidents. His point is that pilots tend to land too fast > for the > conditions. I had the experience of walking! alongside the RV-9A > while he > was landing once. Amazing. > > > ________________________________ Message 4 > _____________________________________ > > > From: Paul Rice <rice737(at)msn.com <mailto:rice737(at)msn.com>> > Subject: RE: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > > > Hey Matt=2C I have about 300 hours in my RV8=2C and I am a 50/50 > guy. Man > y people would say that you are in a less risky spot doing a 3 > pointer beca > use you are going slower at touch down=2C and I can not disagree > with that. > I'f I want to land short=2C I usually set up for a 3 pointer. > And yes=2C > you can hit the tailwheel first=2C even more likely if you have a > passenge > r in the back=2C not a problem if you don't stall it from 5 feet > up. If I > have plenty of runway=2C I set up for a wheel landing=2C as it is > easy to g > rease on in that position. Visability over the nose should not be > a factor > in the -8 in the three pointer=2C unless you are in the back seat > of cours > e=2C and if you can land it from there well=2C you shouldn't have > any prob > lem in any tailwheel airplane. PaulRV8Flying Siren > > From: m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com <mailto:m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com> > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > > Date: Tue=2C 11 Oct 2011 08:18:27 -0400 > > > m> > > > > Hi everyone=2C > > My name is Matt and I bought an RV-8 last month and am trying to > learn ho > w > > to land it with a local tail wheel instructor. I am just about > getting wh > eel > > landings (the kind the instructor prefers) but others are > telling me I > > should be doing 3 pointers with this plane. I have 300 hours in > a slow > > Aventura II seaplane and I always landed 3 points. So I asked my > instruct > or > > if we could just try a 3 pointer in the RV. I did it but did not > like the > > > fact that you have a lot less visibility over the nose and I > felt a littl > e > > rough on the tail wheel at my grass strip. > > > > Any comments for a newbie? How do most of you land your RV? What > are your > > > approach speeds? Touchdown speeds? > > > > Thanks=2C > > Matt > > > > > ========== > ========== > ========== > ========== > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 > _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net > > > > > I had an RV-4 for 9 years and 95% of the time I did 3 point > landings. I am on > a 2155' grass strip. The only time I did wheel landings was when > I was carrying > too much speed or in gusty/ cross wind conditions when I used less > flaps and > carried more speed. > > I'd typically go 90 mph on downwind, 80 mph on base, 70 mph on > final, and bleed > down to stall speed as I cross the numbers.... > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 11, 2011, at 8:18 AM, "Matt Tucciarone" > > wrote: > > > > > Hi everyone, > > My name is Matt and I bought an RV-8 last month and am trying to > learn how to > land it with a local tail wheel instructor. I am just about > getting wheel landings > (the kind the instructor prefers) but others are telling me I > should be > doing 3 pointers with this plane. I have 300 hours in a slow > Aventura II seaplane > and I always landed 3 points. So I asked my instructor if we could > just try > a 3 pointer in the RV. I did it but did not like the fact that you > have a lot > less visibility over the nose and I felt a little rough on the > tail wheel at > my grass strip. > > > > Any comments for a newbie? How do most of you land your RV? What > are your approach > speeds? Touchdown speeds? > > > > Thanks, > > Matt > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 > _____________________________________ > > > From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net <mailto:HCRV6(at)comcast.net> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > > Can't help wondering what kind of tail wheel instructor you have > who prefers wheel > landings, seems a bit strange. I have over 880 hours in my RV-6 > and 99% of > my landings are three point (at least that's what I intended). I > did not install > the wooden gear leg stiffeners and I find it difficult to do a > decent wheel > landing without at least one hop. > > RV-8's may have different landing characteristics vs the RV-6. > > > Harry Crosby > RV-6 N16CX, 883 hours > > > Harry Crosby > RV-6 N16CX, 883 hours > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matt Tucciarone" <m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:18:27 AM > Subject: RV-List: Landing RV-8 > > > Hi everyone, > My name is Matt and I bought an RV-8 last month and am trying to > learn how > to land it with a local tail wheel instructor. I am just about > getting wheel > landings (the kind the instructor prefers) but others are telling me I > should be doing 3 pointers with this plane. I have 300 hours in a slow > Aventura II seaplane and I always landed 3 points. So I asked my > instructor > if we could just try a 3 pointer in the RV. I did it but did not > like the > fact that you have a lot less visibility over the nose and I felt > a little > rough on the tail wheel at my grass strip. > > Any comments for a newbie? How do most of you land your RV? What > are your > approach speeds? Touchdown speeds? > > Thanks, > Matt > > > ________________________________ Message 7 > _____________________________________ > > > Subject: RV-List: Stall warning vane tone generator > From: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net > > > > > > Listers: > I have lost the second sheet of instructions that go with the stall > warning kit for the RV 7 etc. > > If someone has it I need to know the wiring slots call out for the > tone > generator board. There are four slots. Surely they are power in; > vane > wire in; ground; and signal out. I just don't know which is which.. > > If someone knows please give me the order from left to right, with the > slots on the bottom.\ > > > Thank you. > > Denis > > > ========== > get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 12, 2011
From: Scott <acepilot(at)bloomer.net>
Subject: Re: Landing RV-8
On 10-12-2011 15:16, Bill Judge wrote: > > > If I land my -8 in a 3 pt attitude it will "crow hop" many times: the > angle of the 3pt attitude isn't steep enough to stall the wing. It > seems like everything has to be just right to get a smooth 3pt, you > basically have to fly the right attitude on to the pavement and > continue to fly that attitude during the roll as opposed to the C-170 > and Citibria where you can get down to a foot off the ground and > totally get away with gradually putting the stick in your gut and not > bouncing at all. Is what you describe true with the flaps down or up? If up, try a couple notches (half flaps) and see if that helps. With the flaps down, that portion of the wings have an "increased" angle of attack (relative chord I think it's called) and reach the critical angle a bit sooner than the rest of the wing. At least it sounds good in theory. I've used this technique to good effect in Cessna 140s that have been converterted from the original Scott 2000 tailwheel to the 3200, which is, of course, a bigger wheel and thus lower angle of attack in the three point position. > > > I personally like wheelies because you get to pick > more accurately where the wheels will first touch as opposed to the > "wait for it" full stall landing. No comment, pro or con ;) I can get my airplane within 50 or 100 feet of intended spot when I really need to (ie 1500 foot strip carved out of the trees. > > The kicker is ...edited here... and start breaking again. I HOPE you mean braking (stopping) rather than breaking ($$$) :) Scott Corben Junior Ace (a whole different league than the RV!) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 12, 2011
From: Scott <acepilot(at)bloomer.net>
Subject: Re: Landing RV-8
Doesn't 80 knots sound a bit fast? With listed stall speeds of 51-58 MPH, I would expect final to be at about 60-65 knots (1.3 X Vso)??? Of course, one has to take into account any gusts, etc.... On 10-12-2011 17:09, Matt Tucciarone wrote: > Thanks Bill and others who have been commenting. > > I did get some time in a Citabria before going to the rv and it is > similar. Just a little slower on approach. I have been coming in > around final at around 80 knots. > > The best landing I have made to date was a tail low wheel landing. > > Hopefully soon I will get the hang of this > > Bill Judge wrote: > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Matt Tucciarone" <m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Landing RV-8
Date: Oct 12, 2011
Yes it does sound a bit fast but it seems to get pretty sloppy below 70. Like I said, I am still working it out. With enough practice, I will eventually get it. I do feel like I am learning to fly all over again. Matt From: Scott Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 5:58 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Landing RV-8 Doesn't 80 knots sound a bit fast? With listed stall speeds of 51-58 MPH, I would expect final to be at about 60-65 knots (1.3 X Vso)??? Of course, one has to take into account any gusts, etc.... On 10-12-2011 17:09, Matt Tucciarone wrote: Thanks Bill and others who have been commenting. I did get some time in a Citabria before going to the rv and it is similar. Just a little slower on approach. I have been coming in around final at around 80 knots. The best landing I have made to date was a tail low wheel landing. Hopefully soon I will get the hang of this Bill Judge mailto:bjudge(at)gmail.com wrote: ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Landing RV-8
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Date: Oct 12, 2011
Two comments: 1. Each homebuilt aircraft has its own, individual ASI instrument error and static system position error. The sum of these errors may be more than 10 kt on some aircraft. Thus the final approach IAS that is perfect for one aircraft may be completely wrong on another aircraft. Be careful taking someone else's numbers as the gospel and assuming that they will work for you in your aircraft. 2. The 1.3 Vso "rule" is not universally correct. Large aircraft have historically used an approach speed of 1.3 times the stall speed, with both speeds measured in calibrated airspeed, not indicated airspeed (there has been a recent change to 1.23 times the stall speed, but they changed the way the stall speed is measured, so the approach speeds haven't really changed). Most aircraft have large static source position errors at the stall speed, and the sense of the usual error is to make the indicated speed lower than the calibrated speed. I used to fly a C182 that had a ridiculously low indicated airspeed at the stall. If I were to fly final at 1.3 times the indicated stall speed I would be much too slow in that aircraft, and would risk having a hard landing if there was the slightest wind gust. We need to keep in mind that this 30% margin over the stall speed is actually quite a few knots on a big aircraft, as the stall speed is fairly high. But 30% of a 50 mph stall speed is a much smaller margin than 30% of a 100 mph stall speed. A 20 mph wind gust will cause both aircraft to lose 20 mph on final, so the smaller aircraft may need more than 30% speed margin to allow for the gusts. In my opinion, the best way to figure out the best approach speed for your aircraft is to simply try approaches at ever slower speeds on a calm day. Reduce the approach speed by one or two mph each time. The plane will talk to you, and you'll figure out where the lowest practical approach speed is. Now, for "every day" flying, you should add a small buffer above the demonstrated lowest practical approach speed, to allow for a bit of pilot inattention, or minor wind gusts. In flight testing, we have to demonstrate that the aircraft can be landed safely when the approach speed is 5 kt less than the recommended one. Operators typically add another 5 kts over the recommended speed, so they are actually flying 10 kt faster than was shown to be safe during flight testing. And of course if the winds are gusting, you all know you need to add even more speed. And we know that you need a higher approach speed at higher weights. And we also know that the stall speed (and thus the required approach) is higher at forward CG than it is at aft CG. Note: the aircraft will handle differently at forward and aft CG, and these handling changes may require different approach speeds at different CGs. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 On 2011-10-12, at 17:58 , Scott wrote: > Doesn't 80 knots sound a bit fast? With listed stall speeds of 51-58 MPH, I would expect final to be at about 60-65 knots (1.3 X Vso)??? Of course, one has to take into account any gusts, etc.... > > > > On 10-12-2011 17:09, Matt Tucciarone wrote: >> Thanks Bill and others who have been commenting. >> >> I did get some time in a Citabria before going to the rv and it is similar. Just a little slower on approach. I have been coming in around final at around 80 knots. >> >> The best landing I have made to date was a tail low wheel landing. >> >> Hopefully soon I will get the hang of this >> >> Bill Judge wrote: >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 12, 2011
From: Steve Eberhart <steve(at)newtech.com>
Subject: Wings and Wheels Fly-In/Cruise-In
Join us for our first annual *Wings and Wheels Fly-In/Cruise-In* http://www.eaa21.org October 15, 2011 Tri-State Aero Parking Lot on US 41 and General Aviation Ramp Evansville Regional Airport (EVV) Evansville, Indiana 10:00 AM to 3:00 PM Awards Presentation at 2:00 PM Doesn't matter if you're cruising on LAND, WATER or AIR... Just cruise on in /where we're making flying fun again!/ Free Admission Food Booths Travel and Vacation Vendors Military, General Aviation and Experimental Aircraft Displays Fly-In, Cruise-In Meet the Pilots and Drivers Door Prizes & 1/2 Pot Great Music with DJ Dance Exhibitions - E'ville Swing Cats Awards for Airplanes and Cruisers Awards to the Top 25 Award For Best Home-Built Electric Vehicle Commemorative Vinyl Decals to All Fly-In and Cruise-In Vehicles ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Matt Tucciarone" <m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Bent control sticks
Date: Oct 15, 2011
Hey everyone, I know a guy used to bend sticks for the RV-8 but is not doing it any longer. Does anyone know where I can buy a stick already bent? and if you did get yours bent, did it help and is it worth it seeing I have an already built RV? Thanks, Matt ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "H. Ivan Haecker" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com>
Subject: Re: Bent control sticks
Date: Oct 15, 2011
Matt, here is a post from me from a few months ago giving stick bending info: Ivan Haecker Hey group, The following is a shameless plug for an rv service. Delete now if uninterested. I decided that I needed my front control stick bent to clear my instrument panel on my latest project (F-1 Rocket). It can use the same stick as the -4 and -8. I found a guy in CA provides this service and wanted to let others know about it. He can place an "ess" bend in the stick to provide an offset. The cost was $120 and included return shipping. I was very pleased with the results. His name is Mike Cingari and can be reached at mcingari(at)gmail.com If interested, read more at RV-8 Stick Bending - VAF Forums Ivan Haecker -4 1711 hrs. So. Cen. TX ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Tucciarone" <m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 7:47 AM Subject: RV-List: Bent control sticks > > > Hey everyone, > > I know a guy used to bend sticks for the RV-8 but is not doing it any > longer. Does anyone know where I can buy a stick already bent? and if you > did get yours bent, did it help and is it worth it seeing I have an > already built RV? > > Thanks, > Matt > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 16, 2011
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Slobovia Outernational Pumpkin Drop 2011
Hi guys, I hope you can make it to Slobovia on Nov 5 for our annual Pumpkin Drop. Cajun gumbo (& chili for those who can't handle the gumbo) at noon, & bombing commences at 1:30. Location info on the attached poster, or email/call me for detailed info. Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cliff dominey <csdjbtexas(at)live.com>
Subject: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear
Date: Oct 21, 2011
I am trying to restore a damaged RV8A. Nose gear leg is stuck in the engin e mount=2C and I am thinking about heat application while it is in the hydr aulic press. >From my quick research online=2C the steel strength should not be affected so long as it is not heated beyond 40% of the melting point=2C or about 100 0 deg F. If I keep an IR thermometer on it during the attempt=2C and keep the temp below 800=2C I figure I am probably ok. But for the purpose of he at expansion=2C maybe about 500 would be enough. Any metalurists on the list? Funny things happen during that cooling down period. C Dominey csdjbtexas(at)live.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear
Date: Oct 21, 2011
I am not a metalologist and haven't played one. But I have talked to Harmon Lange, the builder of those legs. Go to his web site or call him on the phone. he has all the answers, and can sell you a new leg or straighten your old one, if feasible. http://www.langair.com/ On Oct 21, 2011, at 5:38 , cliff dominey wrote: > I am trying to restore a damaged RV8A. Nose gear leg is stuck in > the engine mount, and I am thinking about heat application while it > is in the hydraulic press. > From my quick research online, the steel strength should not be > affected so long as it is not heated beyond 40% of the melting > point, or about 1000 deg F. If I keep an IR thermometer on it > during the attempt, and keep the temp below 800, I figure I am > probably ok. But for the purpose of heat expansion, maybe about 500 > would be enough. > Any metalurists on the list? Funny things happen during that > cooling down period. > C Dominey > csdjbtexas(at)live.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 21, 2011
From: Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear
Cliff -The gear legs are heat treated. Re-heating will destroy that. Best to or der new parts. Charlie --- On Fri, 10/21/11, cliff dominey wrote: From: cliff dominey <csdjbtexas(at)live.com> Subject: RV-List: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear Date: Friday, October 21, 2011, 7:38 AM =0A=0A=0A=0AI am trying to restore a damaged RV8A.- Nose gear leg is stuc k in the engine mount, and I am thinking about heat application while it is in the hydraulic press.=0AFrom my quick research online, the steel strengt h should not be affected so long as it is not heated beyond 40% of the melt ing point, or about 1000 deg F.- If I keep an IR thermometer on it during the attempt, and keep the temp below 800, I figure I am probably ok.- Bu t for the purpose of heat expansion, maybe about 500 would be enough.=0AAny metalurists on the list?- Funny things happen during that cooling down p eriod.=0AC Dominey=0Acsdjbtexas(at)live.com =0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Burton" <d-burton(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear
Date: Oct 21, 2011
This is a much more complex problem then just the melting point of steel. The atoms in steels have been specifically arranged during manufacturing to produce the desired mechanical properties. There are many complex structures in the steel at an atomic level. You can influence these properties by applying both heat or cold. The sinking of the Titanic is an example of this. The atomic structure of the steel (and its strength) was altered by the cold water temperatures causing the rivets to fail at a fraction of their room temperature strength. This was an unknown property at the time. While this property is transitory and changes with temperature, the altering of the atomic structure of the material by heat, impact or deformation is permanent until altered by the application of these inputs again. Where this can bite you badly is by inadvertently heating a localized area of a larger piece. The entire part doesn't get very hot, but some small part of it does. The large part can act as a heat sink causing rapid cooling of the small area that has been heated. This is exactly like quenching a knife blade to make it hard enough to allow it to hold an edge. This hard and brittle localized area in an larger area of softer material will cause stresses to concentrate there and cause cracking. This was identified as a huge problem with untrained people welding hitches onto vehicles which subsequently failed at weld/frame junction (not the weld itself) that it was outlawed. You may have noticed that aftermarket hitches are all bolted on now. Only a certified welder is allowed to weld a hitch on and most insurance companies are not OK with allowing even them to do this. You can probably carefully warm the engine mount enough to help loosen the gear leg without danger. You probably shouldn't apply heat to the leg. Striking the parts can help to loosen the bond between them. You must be careful to use a soft non-ferrous hammer or drift so you don't damage the parts. The bond that is preventing you from separating the two parts is frequently caused by corrosion products, so using a penetrating oil can be useful. Use one safe for steel. Use a lot, over a long period of time. It make take quite a while for the oil to wick through the entire joint. I am suspicious that in your case the engine mount has been deformed by the impact that caused the damage to the aircraft and this is preventing the gear leg from being removed. The impact to the engine mount may have done other damage to it and having the mount inspected might be wise. I'm sure you are like me and want to do this yourself. I suspect that if you get this problem to the engine mount manufacturer they can solve it for you. It might involve removing a section of the mount and replacing it. They can do this without damaging the gear leg. Finding out at this point that the mount is bent or cracked would be preferable to having problems later... Good luck, David (Former material scientist and accident investigator) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 21, 2011
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear
On 10/21/2011 06:38 AM, cliff dominey wrote: > I am trying to restore a damaged RV8A. Nose gear leg is stuck in the > engine mount, and I am thinking about heat application while it is in > the hydraulic press. > From my quick research online, the steel strength should not be > affected so long as it is not heated beyond 40% of the melting point, > or about 1000 deg F. If I keep an IR thermometer on it during the > attempt, and keep the temp below 800, I figure I am probably ok. But > for the purpose of heat expansion, maybe about 500 would be enough. > Any metalurists on the list? Funny things happen during that cooling > down period. > C Dominey > csdjbtexas(at)live.com > If it's rust that's causing your problem, try googling 'acetone and automatic transmission fluid'. Charlie (It works for me; I now keep a pump-oil can handy when working on old equipment.) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <bigdog(at)bentwing.com>
Subject: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear
Date: Oct 21, 2011
Since you have the mount off try using your rivet gun with a flush set to tap on the end of the gear leg. It doesn't have to be real strong - about the same as for AN3 rivets. It works like magic to install and remove the close tolerance spar bolts where brute force fails. It's a good idea to prep it with penetrating oil like Kroil. It's excellent but hard to find. Greg Young From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 12:54 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear On 10/21/2011 06:38 AM, cliff dominey wrote: I am trying to restore a damaged RV8A. Nose gear leg is stuck in the engine mount, and I am thinking about heat application while it is in the hydraulic press. >From my quick research online, the steel strength should not be affected so long as it is not heated beyond 40% of the melting point, or about 1000 deg F. If I keep an IR thermometer on it during the attempt, and keep the temp below 800, I figure I am probably ok. But for the purpose of heat expansion, maybe about 500 would be enough. Any metalurists on the list? Funny things happen during that cooling down period. C Dominey csdjbtexas(at)live.com If it's rust that's causing your problem, try googling 'acetone and automatic transmission fluid'. Charlie (It works for me; I now keep a pump-oil can handy when working on old equipment.) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 21, 2011
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear
Get Kroil from Kano Labs. Google 'kroil' for a special deal. And don't blow it off for price. The stuff is worth it. Linn On 10/21/2011 3:20 PM, Greg Young wrote: > > Since you have the mount off try using your rivet gun with a flush set > to tap on the end of the gear leg. It doesn't have to be real strong > -- about the same as for AN3 rivets. It works like magic to install > and remove the close tolerance spar bolts where brute force fails. > It's a good idea to prep it with penetrating oil like Kroil. It's > excellent but hard to find. > > Greg Young > > *From:*owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Charlie England > *Sent:* Friday, October 21, 2011 12:54 PM > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear > > On 10/21/2011 06:38 AM, cliff dominey wrote: > > I am trying to restore a damaged RV8A. Nose gear leg is stuck in the > engine mount, and I am thinking about heat application while it is in > the hydraulic press. > > From my quick research online, the steel strength should not be > affected so long as it is not heated beyond 40% of the melting point, > or about 1000 deg F. If I keep an IR thermometer on it during the > attempt, and keep the temp below 800, I figure I am probably ok. But > for the purpose of heat expansion, maybe about 500 would be enough. > > Any metalurists on the list? Funny things happen during that cooling > down period. > > C Dominey > > csdjbtexas(at)live.com > > If it's rust that's causing your problem, try googling 'acetone and > automatic transmission fluid'. > > Charlie > (It works for me; I now keep a pump-oil can handy when working on old > equipment.) > > * * > * * > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 21, 2011
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear
Get Kroil from Kano Labs. Google 'kroil' for a special deal. And don't blow it off for price. The stuff is worth it. Linn On 10/21/2011 3:20 PM, Greg Young wrote: > > Since you have the mount off try using your rivet gun with a flush set > to tap on the end of the gear leg. It doesn't have to be real strong > -- about the same as for AN3 rivets. It works like magic to install > and remove the close tolerance spar bolts where brute force fails. > It's a good idea to prep it with penetrating oil like Kroil. It's > excellent but hard to find. > > Greg Young > > *From:*owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Charlie England > *Sent:* Friday, October 21, 2011 12:54 PM > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear > > On 10/21/2011 06:38 AM, cliff dominey wrote: > > I am trying to restore a damaged RV8A. Nose gear leg is stuck in the > engine mount, and I am thinking about heat application while it is in > the hydraulic press. > > From my quick research online, the steel strength should not be > affected so long as it is not heated beyond 40% of the melting point, > or about 1000 deg F. If I keep an IR thermometer on it during the > attempt, and keep the temp below 800, I figure I am probably ok. But > for the purpose of heat expansion, maybe about 500 would be enough. > > Any metalurists on the list? Funny things happen during that cooling > down period. > > C Dominey > > csdjbtexas(at)live.com > > If it's rust that's causing your problem, try googling 'acetone and > automatic transmission fluid'. > > Charlie > (It works for me; I now keep a pump-oil can handy when working on old > equipment.) > > * * > * * > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern
From: vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 21, 2011
As one of the earlier adopters of the 3" wide UHMW tape as a protective str ip (as opposed to the older Stainless Steel tape) when placed on the curved leading edge of the flaps, I wanted to share a possible cause of concern w ith all of you. Today I was working on my car and needed a wide piece of ta pe for an application. I immediately thought of the roll of UHMW left from my building days back in the late '90s. In the process of unreeling a lengt h of this tape for use, I found that it broke on the liner like glass. I we nt thru the entire roll and it has all deteriorated to the point of unusabi lity. The roll has been stored in a closed box for the past 14 yrs, so it n ever has seen UV exposure. It breaks up in a zillion shards when flexed and so it all ended up going into the waste can. Mine was bought from US Plast ics but I would assume that all UHMW used in thin sections may have similar characteristics with age. Since the flap use application on the plane is fairly stable, I think it ma y still be okay if left undisturbed. But if it ever gets to flaking off, I would assume that it could potentially jam the mechanism upon retraction, s ince the clearance to the wing skin is tight and the sharp edge it presents could catch in the break. I would encourage you all to be aware of this po ssibility and act accordingly. If it ever starts coming off in pieces, I'll do the tedious complete remova l process from both flaps and go back to the old tried and true Stainless S teel tape, since it doesn't degrade like this. Either that or I'll place an other longer lasting strip material on the underside of the top skin where the flap curved edge wipes. YMMV -GV RV-6A flying 985hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 22, 2011
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern
Good tip GV. I have noticed that the UHMW on my flaps, now seven years old, has started to yellow. I will keep a close watch on this. Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 885 hours ----- Original Message ----- From: vanremog(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 5:21:27 PM Subject: RV-List: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern As one of the earlier adopters of the 3" wide UHMW tape as a protective strip (as opposed to the older Stainless Steel tape) when placed on the curved leading edge of the flaps, I wanted to share a possible cause of concern with all of you. Today I was working on my car and needed a wide piece of tape for an application. I immediately thought of the roll of UHMW left from my building days back in the late '90s. In the process of unreeling a length of this tape for use, I found that it broke on the liner like glass. I went thru the entire roll and it has all deteriorated to the point of unusability. The roll has been stored in a closed box for the past 14 yrs, so it never has seen UV exposure. It breaks up in a zillion shards when flexed and so it all ended up going into the waste can. Mine was bought from US Plastics but I would assume that all UHMW used in thin sections may have similar characteristics with age. Since the flap use application on the plane is fairly stable, I think it may still be okay if left undisturbed. But if it ever gets to flaking off, I would assume that it could potentially jam the mechanism upon retraction, since the clearance to the wing skin is tight and the sharp edge it presents could catch in the break. I would encourage you all to be aware of this possibility and act accordingly. If it ever starts coming off in pieces, I'll do the tedious complete removal process from both flaps and go back to the old tried and true Stainless Steel tape, since it doesn't degrade like this. Either that or I'll place another longer lasting strip material on the underside of the top skin where the flap curved edge wipes. YMMV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern
Date: Oct 21, 2011
I replaced the UHMW flap tape on my airplane a month or so ago. The wear layer had become brittle and had begun to delaminate from the other (2?) layers. Removing the wear layer was easy, but the other two layers were a bear until I checked with my friends at a local auto paint store. They pointed me towards a vinyl striping removal wheel like this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0020HQRQC/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd _p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t 1&pf_rd_i=B00063V T0G&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0SHHTFTYBF2GY0RN4ZXH Basically a 3" diameter eraser that uses friction to heat, then shear off the remaining layers of the tape. One wheel was just enough to do the job (the wheel wears down during the process). With this tool, it took 30 minutes to clean off each flap. I used one of the clear films (like for rock protection on cars) as a replacement for the UHMW. It applied easily, but it'll be a few years before I can report on how well it holds up. Kyle Boatright 2001 RV-6 ----- Original Message ----- From: vanremog(at)aol.com To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 8:21 Subject: RV-List: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern As one of the earlier adopters of the 3" wide UHMW tape as a protective strip (as opposed to the older Stainless Steel tape) when placed on the curved leading edge of the flaps, I wanted to share a possible cause of concern with all of you. Today I was working on my car and needed a wide piece of tape for an application. I immediately thought of the roll of UHMW left from my building days back in the late '90s. In the process of unreeling a length of this tape for use, I found that it broke on the liner like glass. I went thru the entire roll and it has all deteriorated to the point of unusability. The roll has been stored in a closed box for the past 14 yrs, so it never has seen UV exposure. It breaks up in a zillion shards when flexed and so it all ended up going into the waste can. Mine was bought from US Plastics but I would assume that all UHMW used in thin sections may have similar characteristics with age. Since the flap use application on the plane is fairly stable, I think it may still be okay if left undisturbed. But if it ever gets to flaking off, I would assume that it could potentially jam the mechanism upon retraction, since the clearance to the wing skin is tight and the sharp edge it presents could catch in the break. I would encourage you all to be aware of this possibility and act accordingly. If it ever starts coming off in pieces, I'll do the tedious complete removal process from both flaps and go back to the old tried and true Stainless Steel tape, since it doesn't degrade like this. Either that or I'll place another longer lasting strip material on the underside of the top skin where the flap curved edge wipes. YMMV -GV RV-6A flying 985hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 21, 2011
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear
The previously mentioned acetone with ATF works better in penetrating and freeing parts than any commercial product, almost by a factor of 2. On 10/21/2011 12:20 PM, Greg Young wrote: > > Since you have the mount off try using your rivet gun with a flush set > to tap on the end of the gear leg. It doesnt have to be real strong > about the same as for AN3 rivets. It works like magic to install and > remove the close tolerance spar bolts where brute force fails. Its a > good idea to prep it with penetrating oil like Kroil. Its excellent > but hard to find. > > Greg Young > > *From:*owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Charlie England > *Sent:* Friday, October 21, 2011 12:54 PM > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear > > On 10/21/2011 06:38 AM, cliff dominey wrote: > > I am trying to restore a damaged RV8A. Nose gear leg is stuck in the > engine mount, and I am thinking about heat application while it is in > the hydraulic press. > > From my quick research online, the steel strength should not be > affected so long as it is not heated beyond 40% of the melting point, > or about 1000 deg F. If I keep an IR thermometer on it during the > attempt, and keep the temp below 800, I figure I am probably ok. But > for the purpose of heat expansion, maybe about 500 would be enough. > > Any metalurists on the list? Funny things happen during that cooling > down period. > > C Dominey > > csdjbtexas(at)live.com > > If it's rust that's causing your problem, try googling 'acetone and > automatic transmission fluid'. > > Charlie > (It works for me; I now keep a pump-oil can handy when working on old > equipment.) > > * * > * * > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern
Date: Oct 21, 2011
A few years back, I used the tape that I had bought for the wear protection on my flaps and put it on the top edge of the tailgate of my pickup to protect the paint from being rubbed off by the bottom edge of the canopy rear opening window. It actually wasn't very long before it became yellow and brittle. I decided to use something else on the flaps. Unfortunately, I never got far enough on my RV-8A to need to find a better tape. Terry From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of vanremog(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 5:21 PM Subject: RV-List: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern As one of the earlier adopters of the 3" wide UHMW tape as a protective strip (as opposed to the older Stainless Steel tape) when placed on the curved leading edge of the flaps, I wanted to share a possible cause of concern with all of you. Today I was working on my car and needed a wide piece of tape for an application. I immediately thought of the roll of UHMW left from my building days back in the late '90s. In the process of unreeling a length of this tape for use, I found that it broke on the liner like glass. I went thru the entire roll and it has all deteriorated to the point of unusability. The roll has been stored in a closed box for the past 14 yrs, so it never has seen UV exposure. It breaks up in a zillion shards when flexed and so it all ended up going into the waste can. Mine was bought from US Plastics but I would assume that all UHMW used in thin sections may have similar characteristics with age. Since the flap use application on the plane is fairly stable, I think it may still be okay if left undisturbed. But if it ever gets to flaking off, I would assume that it could potentially jam the mechanism upon retraction, since the clearance to the wing skin is tight and the sharp edge it presents could catch in the break. I would encourage you all to be aware of this possibility and act accordingly. If it ever starts coming off in pieces, I'll do the tedious complete removal process from both flaps and go back to the old tried and true Stainless Steel tape, since it doesn't degrade like this. Either that or I'll place another longer lasting strip material on the underside of the top skin where the flap curved edge wipes. YMMV -GV RV-6A flying 985hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Al & Gail Herron" <herronpvf(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern
Date: Oct 21, 2011
My UMHW tape was installed in late 2008/early 2009, probably was ordered from Vans's no earlier than 2005. I was very disappointed in how poorly it held up, it is doing exactly as you describe, extensively cracked and in some places pieces have come off. So far I've just been keeping an eye on it, although I really should strip it off and replace it with something better. I'm not too concerned about it jamming the flaps, although it certainly is a theoretical possibility. For one thing, it's so broken up that no individual piece would be more than an inch or two wide. I think it would be more likely to catch the edge of the upper wing skin and just pop off. Definitely near the top of my squawk list though. Anyone know of a better brand of UMHW, or another alternative? I did see mention of stainless steel tape in one response. Al in Hangtown CA RV-7A, 175 hrs From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of vanremog(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 5:21 PM Subject: RV-List: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern As one of the earlier adopters of the 3" wide UHMW tape as a protective strip (as opposed to the older Stainless Steel tape) when placed on the curved leading edge of the flaps, I wanted to share a possible cause of concern with all of you. Today I was working on my car and needed a wide piece of tape for an application. I immediately thought of the roll of UHMW left from my building days back in the late '90s. In the process of unreeling a length of this tape for use, I found that it broke on the liner like glass. I went thru the entire roll and it has all deteriorated to the point of unusability. The roll has been stored in a closed box for the past 14 yrs, so it never has seen UV exposure. It breaks up in a zillion shards when flexed and so it all ended up going into the waste can. Mine was bought from US Plastics but I would assume that all UHMW used in thin sections may have similar characteristics with age. Since the flap use application on the plane is fairly stable, I think it may still be okay if left undisturbed. But if it ever gets to flaking off, I would assume that it could potentially jam the mechanism upon retraction, since the clearance to the wing skin is tight and the sharp edge it presents could catch in the break. I would encourage you all to be aware of this possibility and act accordingly. If it ever starts coming off in pieces, I'll do the tedious complete removal process from both flaps and go back to the old tried and true Stainless Steel tape, since it doesn't degrade like this. Either that or I'll place another longer lasting strip material on the underside of the top skin where the flap curved edge wipes. YMMV -GV RV-6A flying 985hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Ciolino" <JohnCiolino(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern
Date: Oct 22, 2011
Try www.flyboyaccessories.com. Look under "Heat, Sound, Paint and Trim". The product he sells (I think) is the 3M protective tape used to protect auto bottom and nose panels from rocks and road grit. Best thing is that it is applied wet with a water/alcohol mixture so it can be repositioned it you don't get it on straight on the first try. The literature also says it can be easily removed within the first 5 years. John Ciolino RV-8 N894Y From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Al & Gail Herron Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 12:53 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern My UMHW tape was installed in late 2008/early 2009, probably was ordered from Vans's no earlier than 2005. I was very disappointed in how poorly it held up, it is doing exactly as you describe, extensively cracked and in some places pieces have come off. So far I've just been keeping an eye on it, although I really should strip it off and replace it with something better. I'm not too concerned about it jamming the flaps, although it certainly is a theoretical possibility. For one thing, it's so broken up that no individual piece would be more than an inch or two wide. I think it would be more likely to catch the edge of the upper wing skin and just pop off. Definitely near the top of my squawk list though. Anyone know of a better brand of UMHW, or another alternative? I did see mention of stainless steel tape in one response. Al in Hangtown CA RV-7A, 175 hrs From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of vanremog(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 5:21 PM Subject: RV-List: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern As one of the earlier adopters of the 3" wide UHMW tape as a protective strip (as opposed to the older Stainless Steel tape) when placed on the curved leading edge of the flaps, I wanted to share a possible cause of concern with all of you. Today I was working on my car and needed a wide piece of tape for an application. I immediately thought of the roll of UHMW left from my building days back in the late '90s. In the process of unreeling a length of this tape for use, I found that it broke on the liner like glass. I went thru the entire roll and it has all deteriorated to the point of unusability. The roll has been stored in a closed box for the past 14 yrs, so it never has seen UV exposure. It breaks up in a zillion shards when flexed and so it all ended up going into the waste can. Mine was bought from US Plastics but I would assume that all UHMW used in thin sections may have similar characteristics with age. Since the flap use application on the plane is fairly stable, I think it may still be okay if left undisturbed. But if it ever gets to flaking off, I would assume that it could potentially jam the mechanism upon retraction, since the clearance to the wing skin is tight and the sharp edge it presents could catch in the break. I would encourage you all to be aware of this possibility and act accordingly. If it ever starts coming off in pieces, I'll do the tedious complete removal process from both flaps and go back to the old tried and true Stainless Steel tape, since it doesn't degrade like this. Either that or I'll place another longer lasting strip material on the underside of the top skin where the flap curved edge wipes. YMMV -GV RV-6A flying 985hrs http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com < - List Contribution Web Site - http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Cudney <yenduc(at)me.com>
Subject: Re: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern
Date: Oct 22, 2011
I agree 3M tape works fine. Just a note put it along the underside of the wing where the flap rubs rather than on the flaps. No unsightly yellowing tape (after a few years) that way. good luck dave On Oct 22, 2011, at 12:38 AM, John Ciolino wrote: > Try www.flyboyaccessories.com. Look under =93Heat, Sound, Paint and > Trim=94. The product he sells (I think) is the 3M protective tape > used to protect auto bottom and nose panels from rocks and road > grit. Best thing is that it is applied wet with a water/alcohol > mixture so it can be repositioned it you don=92t get it on straight on > the first try. The literature also says it can be easily removed > within the first 5 years. > > John Ciolino > RV-8 > N894Y > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > ] On Behalf Of Al & Gail Herron > Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 12:53 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern > > My UMHW tape was installed in late 2008/early 2009, probably was > ordered from Vans=92s no earlier than 2005. I was very disappointed > in how poorly it held up, it is doing exactly as you describe, > extensively cracked and in some places pieces have come off. So far > I=92ve just been keeping an eye on it, although I really should strip > it off and replace it with something better. I=92m not too concerned > about it jamming the flaps, although it certainly is a theoretical > possibility. For one thing, it=92s so broken up that no individual > piece would be more than an inch or two wide. I think it would be > more likely to catch the edge of the upper wing skin and just pop > off. Definitely near the top of my squawk list though. > > Anyone know of a better brand of UMHW, or another alternative? I > did see mention of stainless steel tape in one response. > > Al in Hangtown CA > RV-7A, 175 hrs > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > ] On Behalf Of vanremog(at)aol.com > Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 5:21 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern > > As one of the earlier adopters of the 3" wide UHMW tape as a > protective strip (as opposed to the older Stainless Steel tape) when > placed on the curved leading edge of the flaps, I wanted to share a > possible cause of concern with all of you. Today I was working on my > car and needed a wide piece of tape for an application. I > immediately thought of the roll of UHMW left from my building days > back in the late '90s. In the process of unreeling a length of this > tape for use, I found that it broke on the liner like glass. I went > thru the entire roll and it has all deteriorated to the point of > unusability. The roll has been stored in a closed box for the past > 14 yrs, so it never has seen UV exposure. It breaks up in a zillion > shards when flexed and so it all ended up going into the waste can. > Mine was bought from US Plastics but I would assume that all UHMW > used in thin sections may have similar characteristics with age. > > Since the flap use application on the plane is fairly stable, I > think it may still be okay if left undisturbed. But if it ever gets > to flaking off, I would assume that it could potentially jam the > mechanism upon retraction, since the clearance to the wing skin is > tight and the sharp edge it presents could catch in the break. I > would encourage you all to be aware of this possibility and act > accordingly. > > If it ever starts coming off in pieces, I'll do the tedious complete > removal process from both flaps and go back to the old tried and > true Stainless Steel tape, since it doesn't degrade like this. > Either that or I'll place another longer lasting strip material on > the underside of the top skin where the flap curved edge wipes. > > YMMV > > -GV RV-6A flying 985hrs > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > > http://forums.matronics.com > < - List Contribution Web Site - > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 22, 2011
Subject: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER!
From: Vince Frazier <vincefrazier(at)gmail.com>
I never liked the UHMW tape because it rapidly yellows. Years ago I found that 3M paint protection film was infinitely better for this job. It doesn't yellow, stretches around mild compound curves easily, and can be removed WITHOUT leaving any residue whatsoever up to 5+ years later WITHOUT harming the paint beneath. I liked it so much that I immediately began selling it on our web store. Here's the link: http://www.flyboyaccessories.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1 It has uses all over your plane, under fairings, under canopy ducktails, anywhere that your paint is subject to wear or scratching. Thanks, Vince Frazier Flyboy Accessories 3963 Caborn Road North Mount Vernon, IN 47620 812-464-1839 1-888-8FLYBOY 1-888-835-9269 www.flyboyaccessories.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 22, 2011
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER!
Yes Sir... Vince sells the GOOD STUFF!- :-)=0A-=0ADarrell=0A=0AFrom: Vi nce Frazier =0ATo: rv-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Sa turday, October 22, 2011 10:00 AM=0ASubject: RV-List: UHMW tape alternative zier(at)gmail.com>=0A=0AI never liked the UHMW tape because it rapidly yellows .- Years ago I=0Afound that 3M paint protection film was infinitely bette r for this=0Ajob.- It doesn't yellow, stretches around mild compound curv es easily,=0Aand can be removed WITHOUT leaving any residue whatsoever up t o 5+=0Ayears later WITHOUT harming the paint beneath.=0A=0AI liked it so mu ch that I immediately began selling it on our web=0Astore.- Here's the li nk:=0A=0Ahttp://www.flyboyaccessories.com/store/index.php?main_page=index &cPath=1=0A=0AIt has uses all over your plane, under fairings, under cano py=0Aducktails, anywhere that your paint is subject to wear or scratching. =0A=0AThanks,=0A=0AVince Frazier=0AFlyboy Accessories=0A3963 Caborn Road No rth=0AMount Vernon, IN 47620=0A812-464-1839=0A1-888-8FLYBOY=0A1-888-835-926 =========================0A ==================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com>
Subject: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern
Date: Oct 22, 2011
GV, We recently removed my 3 year old UHMW tape from my RV-10 flaps due to unsi ghtly pealing in the corner. It was not difficult to remove with heat but a lso probably because it was not many years old. We have since replaced it w ith SS tape. Hopefully the SS will hold up but I have my concerns. What are people recommending for placing on the underside of the wing skin to prevent/minimize abrasion of the SS Tape or flap? I have heard people us ing the "loop" side of Velcro as the buffer but I am not sure it's ideal du e to its thickness. Any suggestions out there? Thanks, Robin [Description: C:\Users\Robin\Desktop\Stainless tape 001.jpg] From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matro nics.com] On Behalf Of vanremog(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 5:21 PM Subject: RV-List: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern As one of the earlier adopters of the 3" wide UHMW tape as a protective str ip (as opposed to the older Stainless Steel tape) when placed on the curved leading edge of the flaps, I wanted to share a possible cause of concern w ith all of you. Today I was working on my car and needed a wide piece of ta pe for an application. I immediately thought of the roll of UHMW left from my building days back in the late '90s. In the process of unreeling a lengt h of this tape for use, I found that it broke on the liner like glass. I we nt thru the entire roll and it has all deteriorated to the point of unusabi lity. The roll has been stored in a closed box for the past 14 yrs, so it n ever has seen UV exposure. It breaks up in a zillion shards when flexed and so it all ended up going into the waste can. Mine was bought from US Plast ics but I would assume that all UHMW used in thin sections may have similar characteristics with age. Since the flap use application on the plane is fairly stable, I think it ma y still be okay if left undisturbed. But if it ever gets to flaking off, I would assume that it could potentially jam the mechanism upon retraction, s ince the clearance to the wing skin is tight and the sharp edge it presents could catch in the break. I would encourage you all to be aware of this po ssibility and act accordingly. If it ever starts coming off in pieces, I'll do the tedious complete remova l process from both flaps and go back to the old tried and true Stainless S teel tape, since it doesn't degrade like this. Either that or I'll place an other longer lasting strip material on the underside of the top skin where the flap curved edge wipes. YMMV -GV RV-6A flying 985hrs ________________________________ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER!
Date: Oct 22, 2011
What to use to get the #%*+ UHMW tape off? ... by phone On Oct 22, 2011, at 9:53 AM, Darrell Reiley wro te: > Yes Sir... Vince sells the GOOD STUFF! :-) > > Darrell > > From: Vince Frazier <vincefrazier(at)gmail.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 10:00 AM > Subject: RV-List: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER! > > > I never liked the UHMW tape because it rapidly yellows. Years ago I > found that 3M paint protection film was infinitely better for this > job. It doesn't yellow, stretches around mild compound curves easily, > and can be removed WITHOUT leaving any residue whatsoever up to 5+ > years later WITHOUT harming the paint beneath. > > I liked it so much that I immediately began selling it on our web > store. Here's the link: > > http://www.flyboyaccessories.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath= 1 > > It has uses all over your plane, under fairings, under canopy > ducktails, anywhere that your paint is subject to wear or scratching. > > Thanks, > > Vince Frazier > Flyboy Accessories > 3963 Caborn Road North > Mount Vernon, IN 47620 > 812-464-1839 > 1-888-8FLYBOY > 1-888-835-9269 > www.flyboy - The RV-List Email bsp; > > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Al & Gail Herron" <herronpvf(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER!
Date: Oct 22, 2011
Thanks for that! I've added you to my resource list. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vince Frazier Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 8:00 AM Subject: RV-List: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER! I never liked the UHMW tape because it rapidly yellows. Years ago I found that 3M paint protection film was infinitely better for this job. It doesn't yellow, stretches around mild compound curves easily, and can be removed WITHOUT leaving any residue whatsoever up to 5+ years later WITHOUT harming the paint beneath. I liked it so much that I immediately began selling it on our web store. Here's the link: http://www.flyboyaccessories.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1 It has uses all over your plane, under fairings, under canopy ducktails, anywhere that your paint is subject to wear or scratching. Thanks, Vince Frazier Flyboy Accessories 3963 Caborn Road North Mount Vernon, IN 47620 812-464-1839 1-888-8FLYBOY 1-888-835-9269 www.flyboyaccessories.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER!
From: "dmaib(at)me.com" <dmaib(at)me.com>
Date: Oct 22, 2011
The paint shop that painted my airplane three years ago, used this stuff. http://www.papa-mike.com/cart/home.php It has been fantastic. It has not yellowed and the paint shop said it will not yellow. PM Research claims the same on their site. I replaced some on my nose gear wheel pant and gear leg fairing after doing some work on them. It goes on easily with a mixture of water/alcohol/and dish soap. Makes it very easy to apply. The old stuff came off very easily. It appears to be the same stuff that is on the front of my wife's car for rock protection. It is a bit thicker than UHMW, so tends to rub the underside of the wing when used on the leading edge of the flaps. It sounds like pretty much the same stuff flyboys sells. It is very pricey compared to UHMW, but it is way better stuff. -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355738#355738 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 23, 2011
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER!
David, You say the old stuff came off very easily, yet others have said the UHMW was difficult to remove. So how did you get yours off easily, I'm going to be replacing mine soon. Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 887 hours ----- Original Message ----- From: dmaib(at)me.com Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 11:57:28 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER! The paint shop that painted my airplane three years ago, used this stuff. http://www.papa-mike.com/cart/home.php It has been fantastic. It has not yellowed and the paint shop said it will not yellow. PM Research claims the same on their site. I replaced some on my nose gear wheel pant and gear leg fairing after doing some work on them. It goes on easily with a mixture of water/alcohol/and dish soap. Makes it very easy to apply. The old stuff came off very easily. It appears to be the same stuff that is on the front of my wife's car for rock protection. It is a bit thicker than UHMW, so tends to rub the underside of the wing when used on the leading edge of the flaps. It sounds like pretty much the same stuff flyboys sells. It is very pricey compared to UHMW, but it is way better stuff. -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355738#355738 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER!
From: "dmaib(at)me.com" <dmaib(at)me.com>
Date: Oct 22, 2011
Harry, sorry about the misunderstanding. The "old stuff" I was referring to, was the PM Research material. I have never had any UHMW on my airplane. The paint shop put the PM Research material on after the airplane was painted. -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355763#355763 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 23, 2011
From: Bill Christie <billc3(at)cox.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 10/22/11
unsubscribe, please On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 12:00 AM, RV-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete RV-List Digest can also be found in either of the two > Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked > Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain > ASCII version of the RV-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic > text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 11-10-22&Archive=RV > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 11-10-22&Archive=RV > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > RV-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Sat 10/22/11: 10 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > 1. 12:45 AM - Re: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern (John > Ciolino) > 2. 08:12 AM - Re: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern (David > Cudney) > 3. 08:14 AM - UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER! (Vince > Frazier) > 4. 10:06 AM - Re: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER! (Darrell > Reiley) > 5. 10:19 AM - Re: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern (Robin > Marks) > 6. 11:03 AM - Re: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER! (John > Jessen) > 7. 11:15 AM - Re: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER! (Al & > Gail Herron) > 8. 12:11 PM - Re: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER! > (dmaib(at)me.com) > 9. 05:42 PM - Re: Re: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER! > (HCRV6(at)comcast.net) > 10. 05:51 PM - Re: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER! > (dmaib(at)me.com) > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "John Ciolino" <JohnCiolino(at)carolina.rr.com> > Subject: RE: RV-List: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern > > Try www.flyboyaccessories.com. Look under "Heat, Sound, Paint and > Trim". > The product he sells (I think) is the 3M protective tape used to > protect > auto bottom and nose panels from rocks and road grit. Best thing is > that it > is applied wet with a water/alcohol mixture so it can be repositioned > it you > don't get it on straight on the first try. The literature also says > it can > be easily removed within the first 5 years. > > > John Ciolino > > RV-8 > > N894Y > > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Al & Gail > Herron > Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 12:53 AM > Subject: RE: RV-List: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern > > > My UMHW tape was installed in late 2008/early 2009, probably was > ordered > from Vans's no earlier than 2005. I was very disappointed in how > poorly it > held up, it is doing exactly as you describe, extensively cracked and > in > some places pieces have come off. So far I've just been keeping an > eye on > it, although I really should strip it off and replace it with > something > better. I'm not too concerned about it jamming the flaps, although it > certainly is a theoretical possibility. For one thing, it's so broken > up > that no individual piece would be more than an inch or two wide. I > think it > would be more likely to catch the edge of the upper wing skin and just > pop > off. Definitely near the top of my squawk list though. > > > Anyone know of a better brand of UMHW, or another alternative? I did > see > mention of stainless steel tape in one response. > > > Al in Hangtown CA > > RV-7A, 175 hrs > > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > vanremog(at)aol.com > Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 5:21 PM > Subject: RV-List: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern > > > As one of the earlier adopters of the 3" wide UHMW tape as a > protective > strip (as opposed to the older Stainless Steel tape) when placed on > the > curved leading edge of the flaps, I wanted to share a possible cause > of > concern with all of you. Today I was working on my car and needed a > wide > piece of tape for an application. I immediately thought of the roll of > UHMW > left from my building days back in the late '90s. In the process of > unreeling a length of this tape for use, I found that it broke on the > liner > like glass. I went thru the entire roll and it has all deteriorated to > the > point of unusability. The roll has been stored in a closed box for the > past > 14 yrs, so it never has seen UV exposure. It breaks up in a zillion > shards > when flexed and so it all ended up going into the waste can. Mine was > bought > from US Plastics but I would assume that all UHMW used in thin > sections may > have similar characteristics with age. > > > Since the flap use application on the plane is fairly stable, I think > it may > still be okay if left undisturbed. But if it ever gets to flaking off, > I > would assume that it could potentially jam the mechanism upon > retraction, > since the clearance to the wing skin is tight and the sharp edge it > presents > could catch in the break. I would encourage you all to be aware of > this > possibility and act accordingly. > > > If it ever starts coming off in pieces, I'll do the tedious complete > removal > process from both flaps and go back to the old tried and true > Stainless > Steel tape, since it doesn't degrade like this. Either that or I'll > place > another longer lasting strip material on the underside of the top skin > where > the flap curved edge wipes. > > > YMMV > > -GV RV-6A flying 985hrs > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > > http://forums.matronics.com > < - List Contribution Web Site - > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > From: David Cudney <yenduc(at)me.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern > > I agree 3M tape works fine. Just a note put it along the underside of > the wing where the flap rubs rather than on the flaps. No unsightly > yellowing tape (after a few years) that way. > > good luck > dave > > > On Oct 22, 2011, at 12:38 AM, John Ciolino wrote: > >> Try www.flyboyaccessories.com. Look under =93Heat, Sound, Paint and > >> Trim=94. The product he sells (I think) is the 3M protective tape >> used to protect auto bottom and nose panels from rocks and road >> grit. Best thing is that it is applied wet with a water/alcohol >> mixture so it can be repositioned it you don=92t get it on straight >> on > >> the first try. The literature also says it can be easily removed >> within the first 5 years. >> >> John Ciolino >> RV-8 >> N894Y >> >> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com >> ] On Behalf Of Al & Gail Herron >> Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 12:53 AM >> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: RE: RV-List: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern >> >> My UMHW tape was installed in late 2008/early 2009, probably was >> ordered from Vans=92s no earlier than 2005. I was very disappointed > >> in how poorly it held up, it is doing exactly as you describe, >> extensively cracked and in some places pieces have come off. So far > >> I=92ve just been keeping an eye on it, although I really should strip > >> it off and replace it with something better. I=92m not too concerned > >> about it jamming the flaps, although it certainly is a theoretical >> possibility. For one thing, it=92s so broken up that no individual > >> piece would be more than an inch or two wide. I think it would be >> more likely to catch the edge of the upper wing skin and just pop >> off. Definitely near the top of my squawk list though. >> >> Anyone know of a better brand of UMHW, or another alternative? I >> did see mention of stainless steel tape in one response. >> >> Al in Hangtown CA >> RV-7A, 175 hrs >> >> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com >> ] On Behalf Of vanremog(at)aol.com >> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 5:21 PM >> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: RV-List: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern >> >> As one of the earlier adopters of the 3" wide UHMW tape as a >> protective strip (as opposed to the older Stainless Steel tape) when > >> placed on the curved leading edge of the flaps, I wanted to share a > >> possible cause of concern with all of you. Today I was working on my > >> car and needed a wide piece of tape for an application. I >> immediately thought of the roll of UHMW left from my building days >> back in the late '90s. In the process of unreeling a length of this > >> tape for use, I found that it broke on the liner like glass. I went > >> thru the entire roll and it has all deteriorated to the point of >> unusability. The roll has been stored in a closed box for the past >> 14 yrs, so it never has seen UV exposure. It breaks up in a zillion > >> shards when flexed and so it all ended up going into the waste can. > >> Mine was bought from US Plastics but I would assume that all UHMW >> used in thin sections may have similar characteristics with age. >> >> Since the flap use application on the plane is fairly stable, I >> think it may still be okay if left undisturbed. But if it ever gets > >> to flaking off, I would assume that it could potentially jam the >> mechanism upon retraction, since the clearance to the wing skin is >> tight and the sharp edge it presents could catch in the break. I >> would encourage you all to be aware of this possibility and act >> accordingly. >> >> If it ever starts coming off in pieces, I'll do the tedious complete > >> removal process from both flaps and go back to the old tried and >> true Stainless Steel tape, since it doesn't degrade like this. >> Either that or I'll place another longer lasting strip material on >> the underside of the top skin where the flap curved edge wipes. >> >> YMMV >> >> -GV RV-6A flying 985hrs >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >> >> http://forums.matronics.com >> < - List Contribution Web Site - >> http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >> http://forums.matronics.com >> http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > Subject: RV-List: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER! > From: Vince Frazier <vincefrazier(at)gmail.com> > > > I never liked the UHMW tape because it rapidly yellows. Years ago I > found that 3M paint protection film was infinitely better for this > job. It doesn't yellow, stretches around mild compound curves easily, > and can be removed WITHOUT leaving any residue whatsoever up to 5+ > years later WITHOUT harming the paint beneath. > > I liked it so much that I immediately began selling it on our web > store. Here's the link: > > > http://www.flyboyaccessories.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1 > > It has uses all over your plane, under fairings, under canopy > ducktails, anywhere that your paint is subject to wear or scratching. > > Thanks, > > Vince Frazier > Flyboy Accessories > 3963 Caborn Road North > Mount Vernon, IN 47620 > 812-464-1839 > 1-888-8FLYBOY > 1-888-835-9269 > www.flyboyaccessories.com > > > ________________________________ Message 4 > _____________________________________ > > > From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER! > > Yes Sir... Vince sells the GOOD STUFF!- :-)=0A-=0ADarrell=0A=0AFrom: > Vi > nce Frazier =0ATo: > rv-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Sa > turday, October 22, 2011 10:00 AM=0ASubject: RV-List: UHMW tape > alternative > zier(at)gmail.com>=0A=0AI never liked the UHMW tape because it rapidly > yellows > .- Years ago I=0Afound that 3M paint protection film was infinitely > bette > r for this=0Ajob.- It doesn't yellow, stretches around mild compound > curv > es easily,=0Aand can be removed WITHOUT leaving any residue whatsoever > up t > o 5+=0Ayears later WITHOUT harming the paint beneath.=0A=0AI liked it > so mu > ch that I immediately began selling it on our web=0Astore.- Here's the > li > > nk:=0A=0Ahttp://www.flyboyaccessories.com/store/index.php?main_page=index > &cPath=1=0A=0AIt has uses all over your plane, under fairings, under > cano > py=0Aducktails, anywhere that your paint is subject to wear or > scratching. > =0A=0AThanks,=0A=0AVince Frazier=0AFlyboy Accessories=0A3963 Caborn > Road No > rth=0AMount Vernon, IN > 47620=0A812-464-1839=0A1-888-8FLYBOY=0A1-888-835-926 > =========================0A > =================== > > ________________________________ Message 5 > _____________________________________ > > > From: Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> > Subject: RE: RV-List: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern > > GV, > We recently removed my 3 year old UHMW tape from my RV-10 flaps due to > unsi > ghtly pealing in the corner. It was not difficult to remove with heat > but a > lso probably because it was not many years old. We have since replaced > it w > ith SS tape. Hopefully the SS will hold up but I have my concerns. > What are people recommending for placing on the underside of the wing > skin to prevent/minimize abrasion of the SS Tape or flap? I have heard > people us > ing the "loop" side of Velcro as the buffer but I am not sure it's > ideal du > e to its thickness. Any suggestions out there? > > Thanks, > Robin > > [Description: C:\Users\Robin\Desktop\Stainless tape 001.jpg] > > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matro > nics.com] On Behalf Of vanremog(at)aol.com > Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 5:21 PM > Subject: RV-List: UHMW Tape - possible source of concern > > As one of the earlier adopters of the 3" wide UHMW tape as a > protective str > ip (as opposed to the older Stainless Steel tape) when placed on the > curved > leading edge of the flaps, I wanted to share a possible cause of > concern w > ith all of you. Today I was working on my car and needed a wide piece > of ta > pe for an application. I immediately thought of the roll of UHMW left > from my building days back in the late '90s. In the process of > unreeling a lengt > h of this tape for use, I found that it broke on the liner like glass. > I we > nt thru the entire roll and it has all deteriorated to the point of > unusabi > lity. The roll has been stored in a closed box for the past 14 yrs, so > it n > ever has seen UV exposure. It breaks up in a zillion shards when > flexed and > so it all ended up going into the waste can. Mine was bought from US > Plast > ics but I would assume that all UHMW used in thin sections may have > similar > characteristics with age. > > Since the flap use application on the plane is fairly stable, I think > it ma > y still be okay if left undisturbed. But if it ever gets to flaking > off, I would assume that it could potentially jam the mechanism upon > retraction, s > ince the clearance to the wing skin is tight and the sharp edge it > presents > could catch in the break. I would encourage you all to be aware of > this po > ssibility and act accordingly. > > If it ever starts coming off in pieces, I'll do the tedious complete > remova > l process from both flaps and go back to the old tried and true > Stainless S > teel tape, since it doesn't degrade like this. Either that or I'll > place an > other longer lasting strip material on the underside of the top skin > where the flap curved edge wipes. > > YMMV > > -GV RV-6A flying 985hrs > > > ________________________________ > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com> > > ________________________________ Message 6 > _____________________________________ > > > From: John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER! > > What to use to get the #%*+ UHMW tape off? > > ... by phone > > On Oct 22, 2011, at 9:53 AM, Darrell Reiley > wro > te: > >> Yes Sir... Vince sells the GOOD STUFF! :-) >> Darrell >> >> From: Vince Frazier <vincefrazier(at)gmail.com> >> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 10:00 AM >> Subject: RV-List: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER! >> >> >> I never liked the UHMW tape because it rapidly yellows. Years ago I >> found that 3M paint protection film was infinitely better for this >> job. It doesn't yellow, stretches around mild compound curves >> easily, >> and can be removed WITHOUT leaving any residue whatsoever up to 5+ >> years later WITHOUT harming the paint beneath. >> >> I liked it so much that I immediately began selling it on our web >> store. Here's the link: >> >> >> http://www.flyboyaccessories.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath > 1 >> >> It has uses all over your plane, under fairings, under canopy >> ducktails, anywhere that your paint is subject to wear or scratching. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Vince Frazier >> Flyboy Accessories >> 3963 Caborn Road North >> Mount Vernon, IN 47620 >> 812-464-1839 >> 1-888-8FLYBOY >> 1-888-835-9269 >> www.flyboy - The RV-List Email bsp; >> >> >> >> >> > ========================= > ======== > ========================= > ======== > ========================= > ======== > ========================= > ======== >> > > ________________________________ Message 7 > _____________________________________ > > > From: "Al & Gail Herron" <herronpvf(at)sbcglobal.net> > Subject: RE: RV-List: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER! > > > Thanks for that! I've added you to my resource list. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vince Frazier > Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 8:00 AM > Subject: RV-List: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER! > > > I never liked the UHMW tape because it rapidly yellows. Years ago I > found that 3M paint protection film was infinitely better for this > job. It doesn't yellow, stretches around mild compound curves easily, > and can be removed WITHOUT leaving any residue whatsoever up to 5+ > years later WITHOUT harming the paint beneath. > > I liked it so much that I immediately began selling it on our web > store. Here's the link: > > > http://www.flyboyaccessories.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1 > > It has uses all over your plane, under fairings, under canopy > ducktails, anywhere that your paint is subject to wear or scratching. > > Thanks, > > Vince Frazier > Flyboy Accessories > 3963 Caborn Road North > Mount Vernon, IN 47620 > 812-464-1839 > 1-888-8FLYBOY > 1-888-835-9269 > www.flyboyaccessories.com > > > ________________________________ Message 8 > _____________________________________ > > > Subject: RV-List: Re: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER! > From: "dmaib(at)me.com" <dmaib(at)me.com> > > > The paint shop that painted my airplane three years ago, used this > stuff. http://www.papa-mike.com/cart/home.php > It has been fantastic. It has not yellowed and the paint shop said it > will not > yellow. PM Research claims the same on their site. I replaced some on > my nose > gear wheel pant and gear leg fairing after doing some work on them. It > goes on > easily with a mixture of water/alcohol/and dish soap. Makes it very > easy to apply. > The old stuff came off very easily. It appears to be the same stuff > that > is on the front of my wife's car for rock protection. It is a bit > thicker than > UHMW, so tends to rub the underside of the wing when used on the > leading edge > of the flaps. It sounds like pretty much the same stuff flyboys sells. > It is > very pricey compared to UHMW, but it is way better stuff. > > -------- > David Maib > RV-10 #40559 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355738#355738 > > > ________________________________ Message 9 > _____________________________________ > > > From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net > Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER! > > David, > You say the old stuff came off very easily, yet others have said the > UHMW was difficult > to remove. So how did you get yours off easily, I'm going to be > replacing > mine soon. > > Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 887 hours > ----- Original Message ----- > From: dmaib(at)me.com Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 11:57:28 AM > Subject: RV-List: Re: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER! > > The paint shop that painted my airplane three years ago, used this > stuff. http://www.papa-mike.com/cart/home.php It has been fantastic. > It has not yellowed and the paint shop said it will not > yellow. PM Research claims the same on their site. I replaced some on > my nose > gear wheel pant and gear leg fairing after doing some work on them. It > goes on > easily with a mixture of water/alcohol/and dish soap. Makes it very > easy to apply. > The old stuff came off very easily. It appears to be the same stuff > that > is on the front of my wife's car for rock protection. It is a bit > thicker than > UHMW, so tends to rub the underside of the wing when used on the > leading edge > of the flaps. It sounds like pretty much the same stuff flyboys sells. > It is > very pricey compared to UHMW, but it is way better stuff. > -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 > > Read this topic online here: > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355738#355738 > > ________________________________ Message 10 > ____________________________________ > > > Subject: RV-List: Re: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER! > From: "dmaib(at)me.com" <dmaib(at)me.com> > > > Harry, sorry about the misunderstanding. The "old stuff" I was > referring to, was > the PM Research material. I have never had any UHMW on my airplane. > The paint > shop put the PM Research material on after the airplane was painted. > > -------- > David Maib > RV-10 #40559 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355763#355763 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 23, 2011
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER!
David, Nuts, I was hoping you had found an easy way to remove the UHMW. Thanks for clarifying anyway. Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 887 hours ----- Original Message ----- From: dmaib(at)me.com Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 5:48:36 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER! Harry, sorry about the misunderstanding. The "old stuff" I was referring to, was the PM Research material. I have never had any UHMW on my airplane. The paint shop put the PM Research material on after the airplane was painted. -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355763#355763 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 23, 2011
From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)newwavecomm.net>
Subject: Re: RE: RV-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 10/22/11
You have to do it yourself! Follow this link: On 10/23/2011 11:47 AM, Bill Christie wrote: > > unsubscribe, please > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 23, 2011
From: John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com>
Subject: Re: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER!
This was recommended on the previous thread: > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0020HQRQC/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t 1&pf_rd_i=B00063VT0G&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0SHHTFTYBF2GY0RN4ZXH See the other UHMW thread for more info. john On 10/23/2011 12:29 PM, HCRV6(at)comcast.net wrote: > David, > > Nuts, I was hoping you had found an easy way to remove the UHMW. > Thanks for clarifying anyway. > > Harry Crosby > RV-6 N16CX, 887 hours > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From: *dmaib(at)me.com > *To: *rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent: *Saturday, October 22, 2011 5:48:36 PM > *Subject: *RV-List: Re: UHMW tape alternative - MUCH BETTER! > > > Harry, sorry about the misunderstanding. The "old stuff" I was > referring to, was the PM Research material. I have never had any UHMW > on my airplane. The paint shop put the PM Research material on after > the airplane was painted. > > -------- > David Maib > RV-10 #40559 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355763#355763 > > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "charlie" <cheathco(at)pgtc.com>
Subject: Selling my 6A
Date: Oct 23, 2011
If you know of anyone interested have them email me at cheathco(at)pgtc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rquinn1(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 23, 2011
Subject: Re: Selling my 6A
I can not get to information about your RV6 for sale; I get a phone company using your address. In a message dated 10/23/2011 6:24:38 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, cheathco(at)pgtc.com writes: cheathco(at)pgtc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill Judge <bjudge(at)gmail.com>
Date: Oct 29, 2011
Subject: Re: Landing RV-8
Guess who blew a tire a KMMH and will now be practicing minimum airspeed landings... Bill On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 8:16 AM, Bill Judge wrote: > Matt, > The RV-8 has a different gear configuration than the -4, -6 and -7 so what > works well in those planes doesn't necessarily apply in a -8. The 8 has > spring gear like a citibria or a C-170 while all the others all > have Whitman style tapered rods. > > In talking to people who fly the tapered rod type gear you find out that > the tapered rods have an issue with changing the direction of the wheels > when they get compressed which makes tailwheel flying interesting and less > so when you go slower. So lots of them prefer a min speed 3 pt to minimize > capital losses and hurt pride. > > If I land my -8 in a 3 pt attitude it will "crow hop" many times: the > angle of the 3pt attitude isn't steep enough to stall the wing. It seems > like everything has to be just right to get a smooth 3pt, you basically > have to fly the right attitude on to the pavement and continue to fly that > attitude during the roll as opposed to the C-170 and Citibria where you can > get down to a foot off the ground and totally get away with gradually > putting the stick in your gut and not bouncing at all. > > You could do the sailplane technique and land tail first but I think this > "belly flop" type landing is abusive and so we're left with the other > alternative of doing a wheelie. > > So, unless I'm landing on a rough strip I do tail low wheelies, touching > down at around 60 knots. After you get the technique down pat(on pavement) > you can have a butter smooth landing every single time which, to me, is > less wear and tear than the regular crow hopping and tail first > alternatives. > > Once you get the technique of wheelies down pat doing a 3pt or a tail > first becomes very easy when you need it. > > I personally like wheelies because you get to pick more accurately where > the wheels will first touch as opposed to the "wait for it" full stall > landing. > > The kicker is that once you're really on your game you can brake > aggressively just after touch down while managing the attitude with the > elevator then stop the braking when you start to lose elevator authority, > put the tail down, stick in your gut, and start breaking again. This is an > advanced technique that is right out of stick and rudder, nobody teaches it > anymore but it can be done and end up with very short landing rolls while > still doing a wheelie. The advantage here is that you get more control over > where you touch down by virtue of doing a wheelie and then if you need to > you can brake aggressively and end up with landing roll that is very > similar to a 3 pt min speed roll. > > Bill > N84WJ, RV-8, 665 hrs, KSEE based > rv-8.blogspot.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Matt Tucciarone" <m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Landing RV-8
Date: Oct 29, 2011
I appreciate all the suggestions on the landings. Bill, I am going to keep trying for the tail low wheel landings. I have about 8 hours in this plane and I have not been signed off to fly it by my self yet. It is frustrating but I will keep at it. My instructor is a good Citabria tail wheel instructor and he signed me off in his plane in 2.5 hours. I don=99t think he is the best RV instructor. Can=99t change now because he is my neighbor and I don=99t want any hard feelings. From: Bill Judge Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 1:46 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: Landing RV-8 Guess who blew a tire a KMMH and will now be practicing minimum airspeed landings... Bill On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 8:16 AM, Bill Judge wrote: Matt, The RV-8 has a different gear configuration than the -4, -6 and -7 so what works well in those planes doesn't necessarily apply in a -8. The 8 has spring gear like a citibria or a C-170 while all the others all have Whitman style tapered rods. In talking to people who fly the tapered rod type gear you find out that the tapered rods have an issue with changing the direction of the wheels when they get compressed which makes tailwheel flying interesting and less so when you go slower. So lots of them prefer a min speed 3 pt to minimize capital losses and hurt pride. If I land my -8 in a 3 pt attitude it will "crow hop" many times: the angle of the 3pt attitude isn't steep enough to stall the wing. It seems like everything has to be just right to get a smooth 3pt, you basically have to fly the right attitude on to the pavement and continue to fly that attitude during the roll as opposed to the C-170 and Citibria where you can get down to a foot off the ground and totally get away with gradually putting the stick in your gut and not bouncing at all. You could do the sailplane technique and land tail first but I think this "belly flop" type landing is abusive and so we're left with the other alternative of doing a wheelie. So, unless I'm landing on a rough strip I do tail low wheelies, touching down at around 60 knots. After you get the technique down pat(on pavement) you can have a butter smooth landing every single time which, to me, is less wear and tear than the regular crow hopping and tail first alternatives. Once you get the technique of wheelies down pat doing a 3pt or a tail first becomes very easy when you need it. I personally like wheelies because you get to pick more accurately where the wheels will first touch as opposed to the "wait for it" full stall landing. The kicker is that once you're really on your game you can brake aggressively just after touch down while managing the attitude with the elevator then stop the braking when you start to lose elevator authority, put the tail down, stick in your gut, and start breaking again. This is an advanced technique that is right out of stick and rudder, nobody teaches it anymore but it can be done and end up with very short landing rolls while still doing a wheelie. The advantage here is that you get more control over where you touch down by virtue of doing a wheelie and then if you need to you can brake aggressively and end up with landing roll that is very similar to a 3 pt min speed roll. Bill N84WJ, RV-8, 665 hrs, KSEE based rv-8.blogspot.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: PLEASE READ - 2011 List Fund Raiser Kickoff - 21 Years Strong!!
Dear Listers, This year marks 21 years of the Email Lists and Forums at Matronics! I've been running these forums for nearly half my life! I've made some great friends over the years and had countless email and personal conversations with builders about aircraft building and flying. What a great community of people! The advice, support, and friendship has be invaluable over the years. To support the continued operation and upgrade of the List servers, each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser. It is solely through the Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible. There is NO advertising to support the Lists. You might have noticed the conspicuous lack of flashing banners and annoying pop-ups on the Matronics Email List email messages and web site pages including: * Matronics List Forums http://forums.matronics.com * Matronics List Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search * Matronics List Browser http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse * Matronics List List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com You don't find advertising on any of these pages because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - airplanes! During the month of November, I will be sending out List messages every couple of days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages. The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all of the bills associated with running these Lists. Your personal Contribution counts! Once again, this year we've got another terrific line up of free gifts to go along with the various Contribution levels. Many of these gifts have been provided by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and they have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates. This year, these generous people include: * Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection http://www.aeroelectric.com * Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, and Andy for their generous support of the Lists again this year!! You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying Contribution amount!! To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral support over the years! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator RV-8 Builder (and Rebuilder) and Flyer RV-6 Rebuilder and Flyer RV-4 Builder ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Support The Lists...
Dear Listers, Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. There are some very nice incentive gifts to choose from as well! Please make your Contribution today at: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2011
Subject: Fly-in
From: Ollie Washburn <ollie6a(at)embarqmail.com>
This weekend is the Florida Wing of VAF annual Bar-B-Q at loves Landing in central FL (97FL) featuring" Ollies Famous" pork bar-b-q We have coffee and donuts for early birds (9am) and lunch is at noon. Most people say this is best fly-in in Florida so come and join us. -- >From Central Florida, Ollie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Fund Raiser List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution
Today! Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort of my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors (LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment tool as your typical magazine subscription! Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make A List Contribution - It's Your Personal Squelch Button...
There is an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages. Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes a Contribution through the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, their email address is automatically added to this year's Contributor List and they instantly cease to receive further Fund Raiser messages for the rest of the month! Its just that simple! :-) I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware and software that are required to run a List Site such as this one. It also goes to pay for the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the huge electric bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered on. I run all of the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locally which allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in reliably and performance. Your personal Contribution matters because, when combined with other Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercials that are so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List sites. If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution related message. For example, if someone replies to one of the messages, when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum. The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are anonymous public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Reminder
Dear Listers, Just a quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser. The Matronics Lists are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are provided for my your Contributions during this time of the year. Your personal Contribution makes a difference and keeps all of the Matronics Email Lists and Forums completely ad-free. Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists
Dear Listers, There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums. The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November Fund Raiser. Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution too! You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or, you can send a personal check to the following address: Matronics / Matt Dralle 581 Jeannie Way Livermore, CA 94550 Thank you in advance for your generous support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published in December!
Dear Listers, The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What's Your Contribution Used For?
Dear Listers, You might have wondered at some pointd, "What's my Contribution used for?" Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables... It provides for the expensive, commercial-grade Internet connection used on the List. It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest performance possible for List services such as the Archive Search Engine, List Browser, and the Web Forums. It pays for over 21 years (yeah, I really said *21* years) worth of on line archive data available for instant search and access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing, developing, and maintaining the custom applications that power this List Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, Forums, and Wiki. But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from moderation, censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer viruses. It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these aspects of Matronics List services. Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its one of the best investments you can make in your Sport! List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or, you can send a personal check to the following address: Matronics / Matt Dralle 581 Jeannie Way Livermore, CA 94550 Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2011
From: "Martin C. Walker" <mwalker(at)networksentinel.com>
Subject: Insurance for RV
All I am in the process of finding and purchasing a flying RV. Who are the recommended insurance companies to deal with? Thanks -- Martin C. Walker NetworkSentinel Tel:(404) 272-0964 Email: mwalker(at)networksentinel.com Bio: http://tinyurl.com/4qo4gca Resume: http://tinyurl.com/4ze8zcm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2011
From: "Martin C. Walker" <mwalker(at)networksentinel.com>
Subject: Pre-buy inspection RV-6 Upstate NY
All I'm looking for a mechanic who has strong familiarity with RV's to do a pre-purchase inspection for me on an RV-6. Preferably a builder. Anyone have any contacts or recommendations? Thanks -- Martin C. Walker NetworkSentinel Tel:(404) 272-0964 Email: mwalker(at)networksentinel.com Bio: http://tinyurl.com/4qo4gca Resume: http://tinyurl.com/4ze8zcm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: Re: Insurance for RV
Date: Nov 15, 2011
This is who I switched to, same coverage and better rates for me. -Mike Kraus Sent from my iPhone On Nov 15, 2011, at 9:25 PM, "Martin C. Walker" wrote: .com> > > All > > I am in the process of finding and purchasing a flying RV. > > Who are the recommended insurance companies to deal with? > > Thanks > > -- > Martin C. Walker > NetworkSentinel > Tel:(404) 272-0964 > Email: mwalker(at)networksentinel.com > Bio: http://tinyurl.com/4qo4gca > Resume: http://tinyurl.com/4ze8zcm > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > >

________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Insurance for RV
From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)newwavecomm.net>
Date: Nov 16, 2011
Mike how did you send the image of your contact with your iPhone? I know tha t you can share contact info from the contact screen but that just attaches a n vcf link like this: My insurance agent NationAir Sent from my Verizon iPhone On Nov 15, 2011, at 10:34 PM, Michael Kraus wro te: > This is who I switched to, same coverage and better rates for me. > > > > > -Mike Kraus > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 15, 2011, at 9:25 PM, "Martin C. Walker" wrote: > l.com> >> >> All >> >> I am in the process of finding and purchasing a flying RV. >> >> Who are the recommended insurance companies to deal with? >> >> Thanks >> >> -- >> Martin C. Walker >> NetworkSentinel >> Tel:(404) 272-0964 >> Email: mwalker(at)networksentinel.com >> Bio: http://tinyurl.com/4qo4gca >> Resume: http://tinyurl.com/4ze8zcm >> >> > ========================= > ========================= > ========================= > ========================= > ========================= >> >> >> > >
> ========================== ========= lectric.com m">www.buildersbooks.com ebuilthelp.com atronics.com/contribution ========================== ========= www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ========================== ========= s.com ========================== ========= atronics.com/contribution ========================== ========= > >

________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Insurance for RV
From: Steve Senegal <Ssenegal(at)sanbrunocable.com>
Date: Nov 16, 2011
I use Angie Harris with Bob Cannon Insurance Here is her contact info: (800) 851-2997 aharris(at)cannonaviation.com 15010 North 78th Way Ste. 103 Scottsdale AZ 85260 United States Great service Steve 650.346.6967 Sent from my iPhone On Nov 16, 2011, at 3:57, Bobby Hester wrote: > Mike how did you send the image of your contact with your iPhone? I know that you can share contact info from the contact screen but that just attaches an vcf link like this: > > > > My insurance agent NationAir > > Sent from my Verizon iPhone > > On Nov 15, 2011, at 10:34 PM, Michael Kraus wrote: > >> This is who I switched to, same coverage and better rates for me. >> >> >> >> >> -Mike Kraus >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Nov 15, 2011, at 9:25 PM, "Martin C. Walker" wrote: >> >>> >>> All >>> >>> I am in the process of finding and purchasing a flying RV. >>> >>> Who are the recommended insurance companies to deal with? >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> -- >>> Martin C. Walker >>> NetworkSentinel >>> Tel:(404) 272-0964 >>> Email: mwalker(at)networksentinel.com >>> Bio: http://tinyurl.com/4qo4gca >>> Resume: http://tinyurl.com/4ze8zcm >>> >>> >> =========================> =========================> =========================> =========================> =========================>> >>> >>> >> >>
>> > =================================== > lectric.com > m">www.buildersbooks.com > ebuilthelp.com > atronics.com/contribution > =================================== > www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > =================================== > s.com > =================================== > atronics.com/contribution > =================================== >> >>
> >
> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Insurance for RV
From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)newwavecomm.net>
Date: Nov 16, 2011
Sent from my Verizon iPhone On Nov 15, 2011, at 8:25 PM, "Martin C. Walker" wrote: .com> > > All > > I am in the process of finding and purchasing a flying RV. > > Who are the recommended insurance companies to deal with? > > Thanks > > -- > Martin C. Walker > NetworkSentinel > Tel:(404) 272-0964 > Email: mwalker(at)networksentinel.com > Bio: http://tinyurl.com/4qo4gca > Resume: http://tinyurl.com/4ze8zcm > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > >

________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Timothy E. Cone" <tcone1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Insurance for RV
Date: Nov 16, 2011
I will second the recommendations for Jenny Estes at NationAir...she's great to work with. Her number. (877)648-8267 Highest recommendation possible, Tim Cone -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Hester Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 7:19 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Insurance for RV Sent from my Verizon iPhone On Nov 15, 2011, at 8:25 PM, "Martin C. Walker" wrote: > > > All > > I am in the process of finding and purchasing a flying RV. > > Who are the recommended insurance companies to deal with? > > Thanks > > -- > Martin C. Walker > NetworkSentinel > Tel:(404) 272-0964 > Email: mwalker(at)networksentinel.com > Bio: http://tinyurl.com/4qo4gca > Resume: http://tinyurl.com/4ze8zcm > > =================================== =================================== =================================== =================================== =================================== > >
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Date: Nov 17, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Support The Lists...
Dear Listers, Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. There are some very nice incentive gifts to choose from as well! Your Contributions alone keep these services up and running. Please make your Contribution today at: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Matt Tucciarone" <m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: canopy leaks
Date: Nov 17, 2011
This my be a stupid question but here goes. I was thinking about taking my newly bought RV-8 on a trip where it will have to be parked on a ramp for a few days. I did not get a canopy cover with the plane and was wondering if the -8's take in water when it rains? Also does anyone use the Light travel canopy cover that Vans sells and does it keep out the rain? Thanks, Matt ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2011
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: canopy leaks
On 11/17/2011 2:04 PM, Matt Tucciarone wrote: > > > This my be a stupid question but here goes. I was thinking about > taking my newly bought RV-8 on a trip where it will have to be parked > on a ramp for a few days. I did not get a canopy cover with the plane > and was wondering if the -8's take in water when it rains? I have seen a -8 ... ;-) but have no clue if they leak. I may still help though. > Also does anyone use the Light travel canopy cover that Vans sells and > does it keep out the rain? Most of the light weight covers shed the rain by containing it in the cover so it's absorbed in the cloth and drains instead of impacting where the canopy meets the windshield. The heavier covers actually repel the water so the underside stays dry. I'd recommend a good cover if you're going to leave the airplane out .... google 'canopy covers'. However, you can use the lightweight cover and just use the blue painters tape to seal underneath the cover. BTDT. Linn > > > Thanks, > Matt > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: canopy leaks
From: Craig Gallenbach <craigtxtx(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 17, 2011
I used the Vans lightweight cover while parked during a frog strangler on my way to OSH in 2010. It worked well. I was concerned about leaks around the front baggage door, but that was not an issue. Craig Gallenbach RV8A N184CG 215hrs On Nov 17, 2011, at 2:04 PM, "Matt Tucciarone" wrote: > > This my be a stupid question but here goes. I was thinking about taking my newly bought RV-8 on a trip where it will have to be parked on a ramp for a few days. I did not get a canopy cover with the plane and was wondering if the -8's take in water when it rains? Also does anyone use the Light travel canopy cover that Vans sells and does it keep out the rain? > > Thanks, > Matt > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2011
Subject: Re: canopy leaks
From: Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowenaero.com>
I used the light cover on my 8 and thought is was fine. I'd get it again. I don't think I had any canopy leaks. I did get some water through the NACA vent during a storm though. Plug it with a closed cell sponge or something. I also put some of those plastic cling shades over each fuel cap to keep the rain out when parked outdoors. The same ones that can be slapped on the canopy for some sun relief. Safe travels. -- Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Linn Walters wrote: > > > On 11/17/2011 2:04 PM, Matt Tucciarone wrote: > >> m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com> >> >> This my be a stupid question but here goes. I was thinking about taking >> my newly bought RV-8 on a trip where it will have to be parked on a ramp >> for a few days. I did not get a canopy cover with the plane and was >> wondering if the -8's take in water when it rains? >> > I have seen a -8 ... ;-) but have no clue if they leak. I may still > help though. > > Also does anyone use the Light travel canopy cover that Vans sells and >> does it keep out the rain? >> > Most of the light weight covers shed the rain by containing it in the > cover so it's absorbed in the cloth and drains instead of impacting where > the canopy meets the windshield. The heavier covers actually repel the > water so the underside stays dry. > > I'd recommend a good cover if you're going to leave the airplane out .... > google 'canopy covers'. > However, you can use the lightweight cover and just use the blue painters > tape to seal underneath the cover. BTDT. > Linn > > >> >> Thanks, >> Matt >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Cantrell" <kcflyrv(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Eating Alternators...
Date: Nov 17, 2011
Listers, I have put 1175 hours on my RV6 over the last 10 years and I'm currently having serious alternator problems. I have Vans "steam" engine gauges including an analog ammeter and voltage meter. While cruising at altitude about a month ago I noticed my ammeter start to "quiver" a lot. After dancing back and forth from neg to positive, it finally went solid to the negative side. I figured I lost my alternator but wasn't too concerned. I turned off my strobes to save battery life and headed home. My battery had plenty of life for my radio and transponder. I removed my alternator, had it checked (it was dead) and bought a new one. After about 5 hours on the replacement, the same scenario occurred. I talked to others more knowledgeable than me (just about everyone) and elected to install another one just in case it was a bad alternator. You guessed it; same thing happened. BTW, before changing out the first alternator, I checked all electrical connections to see if I could find anything loose and could not. The only thing I found was the nut attaching the heavy gauge line from the positive battery to the master relay was snug but not tight. There was also a little residue on the master relay that looked like it may have 'arced' at some time. I sinched down the nut and hoped that was my problem. I am now on my 3rd alternator in a month. This time, I bought a "Plane Power" one from Vans. Yesterday, my ammeter started the boogie dance again. I shut off the alternator by turning off my field switch on my panel for a while and periodically turned it back on to charge the battery. But after it was on for a while, the ammeter started to quiver and dance as it has done before just before it failed. In all three cases, when the alternator is on, the battery is showing 14.5 volts. Also, all 3 alternators have internal voltage regulators. Any and all suggestions / advice is much appreciated. Ken Cantrell Lodi, CA 209-747-2903 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Matt Tucciarone" <m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: canopy leaks
Date: Nov 17, 2011
Thanks everyone for your comments. I think I will buy the light cover from Vans. From: Larry Bowen Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 3:10 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: canopy leaks I used the light cover on my 8 and thought is was fine. I'd get it again. I don't think I had any canopy leaks. I did get some water through the NACA vent during a storm though. Plug it with a closed cell sponge or something. I also put some of those plastic cling shades over each fuel cap to keep the rain out when parked outdoors. The same ones that can be slapped on the canopy for some sun relief. Safe travels. -- Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Linn Walters wrote: On 11/17/2011 2:04 PM, Matt Tucciarone wrote: This my be a stupid question but here goes. I was thinking about taking my newly bought RV-8 on a trip where it will have to be parked on a ramp for a few days. I did not get a canopy cover with the plane and was wondering if the -8's take in water when it rains? I have seen a -8 ... ;-) but have no clue if they leak. I may still help though. Also does anyone use the Light travel canopy cover that Vans sells and does it keep out the rain? Most of the light weight covers shed the rain by containing it in the cover so it's absorbed in the cloth and drains instead of impacting where the canopy meets the windshield. The heavier covers actually repel the water so the underside stays dry. I'd recommend a good cover if you're going to leave the airplane out .... google 'canopy covers'. However, you can use the lightweight cover and just use the blue painters tape to seal underneath the cover. BTDT. Linn Thanks, Matt om" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution le, List Admin. get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Eating Alternators...
Date: Nov 17, 2011
I suggest you first look at the alternator ground path. Instead of relying o n mounting hardware, run a ground cable from the alternator to the engine gr ound point. I ground the engine at the starter using the same gauge wire as the positive lead going to the starter. I do a short jumper from this poin t to ground the alternator. Remember, ever amp of juice running to the starter or from the alternator ha s the same current in the ground path. If you still have a problem, try swapping out the source switch/breaker (wha t I assume you mean by field switch). If you have a corroded or other high r esistance type you may be causing the internal voltage regulator to fail ove r time. I'd place this in the long shot category but if you are on the thir d alternator and the ground is good, then it may be worth your time, especia lly if the alternators failed because of the internal voltage regulator. The real stretch would be if you did any thing to the comm or xpdr antennas o r antenna leads, or if you are having new problems with either. If somehow y ou are inducing rf current Into the alternator I could, maybe, kind of, see this causing the repeated f ailure. Good luck, Carl On Nov 17, 2011, at 3:43 PM, "Ken Cantrell" wrote: > Listers, > > I have put 1175 hours on my RV6 over the last 10 years and I=99m cur rently having serious alternator problems. > > I have Vans =9Csteam=9D engine gauges including an analog amme ter and voltage meter. While cruising at altitude about a month ago I notice d my ammeter start to =9Cquiver=9D a lot. After dancing back and forth from neg to positive, it finally went solid to the negative side. I f igured I lost my alternator but wasn=99t too concerned. I turned off m y strobes to save battery life and headed home. My battery had plenty of lif e for my radio and transponder. > > I removed my alternator, had it checked (it was dead) and bought a new one . > > After about 5 hours on the replacement, the same scenario occurred. I talk ed to others more knowledgeable than me (just about everyone) and elected to install another one just in case it was a bad alternator. You guessed it; s ame thing happened. BTW, before changing out the first alternator, I checked all electrical connections to see if I could find anything loose and could n ot. The only thing I found was the nut attaching the heavy gauge line from t he positive battery to the master relay was snug but not tight. There was al so a little residue on the master relay that looked like it may have =98 arced=99 at some time. I sinched down the nut and hoped that was my pr oblem. > > I am now on my 3rd alternator in a month. This time, I bought a =9CP lane Power=9D one from Vans. Yesterday, my ammeter started the boogie d ance again. I shut off the alternator by turning off my field switch on my p anel for a while and periodically turned it back on to charge the battery. B ut after it was on for a while, the ammeter started to quiver and dance as i t has done before just before it failed. In all three cases, when the altern ator is on, the battery is showing 14.5 volts. Also, all 3 alternators have i nternal voltage regulators. > > > > Any and all suggestions / advice is much appreciated. > > > > Ken Cantrell > > Lodi, CA > > 209-747-2903 > > > > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Eating Alternators...
Date: Nov 17, 2011
Ken=2C Have you checked the ground wires=2C especially the one from the engine cas e to the firewall? Sometimes loose and/or dirty grounds will cause problem s. Mike Robertson From: kcflyrv(at)comcast.net Subject: RV-List: Eating Alternators... Date: Thu=2C 17 Nov 2011 12:43:25 -0800 Listers=2C I have put 1175 hours on my RV6 over the last 10 years and I=92m currently having serious alternator problems. I have Vans =93steam=94 engine gauges including an analog ammeter and volta ge meter. While cruising at altitude about a month ago I noticed my ammeter start to =93quiver=94 a lot. After dancing back and forth from neg to posi tive=2C it finally went solid to the negative side. I figured I lost my alt ernator but wasn=92t too concerned. I turned off my strobes to save battery life and headed home. My battery had plenty of life for my radio and trans ponder. I removed my alternator=2C had it checked (it was dead) and bought a new on e. After about 5 hours on the replacement=2C the same scenario occurred. I tal ked to others more knowledgeable than me (just about everyone) and elected to install another one just in case it was a bad alternator. You guessed it =3B same thing happened. BTW=2C before changing out the first alternator=2C I checked all electrical connections to see if I could find anything loose and could not. The only thing I found was the nut attaching the heavy gaug e line from the positive battery to the master relay was snug but not tight . There was also a little residue on the master relay that looked like it m ay have =91arced=92 at some time. I sinched down the nut and hoped that was my problem. I am now on my 3rd alternator in a month. This time=2C I bought a =93Plane Power=94 one from Vans. Yesterday=2C my ammeter started the boogie dance ag ain. I shut off the alternator by turning off my field switch on my panel f or a while and periodically turned it back on to charge the battery. But af ter it was on for a while=2C the ammeter started to quiver and dance as it has done before just before it failed. In all three cases=2C when the alter nator is on=2C the battery is showing 14.5 volts. Also=2C all 3 alternators have internal voltage regulators. Any and all suggestions / advice is much appreciated. Ken Cantrell Lodi=2C CA 209-747-2903 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Cantrell" <kcflyrv(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Eating Alternators...
Date: Nov 17, 2011
Thanks Carl & Mike. Good stuff to check out. I'll let you know results. ken From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Robertson Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 1:50 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Eating Alternators... Ken, Have you checked the ground wires, especially the one from the engine case to the firewall? Sometimes loose and/or dirty grounds will cause problems. Mike Robertson

August 02, 2011 - November 17, 2011

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