RV-Archive.digest.vol-ux

November 17, 2011 - March 13, 2012



      
      
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From: kcflyrv(at)comcast.net
Subject: Eating Alternators...
Date: Nov 17, 2011
Listers, I have put 1175 hours on my RV6 over the last 10 years and I'm currently having serious alternator problems. I have Vans "steam" engine gauges including an analog ammeter and voltage meter. While cruising at altitude about a month ago I noticed my ammeter start to "quiver" a lot. After dancing back and forth from neg to positive, it finally went solid to the negative side. I figured I lost my alternator but wasn't too concerned. I turned off my strobes to save battery life and headed home. My battery had plenty of life for my radio and transponder. I removed my alternator, had it checked (it was dead) and bought a new one. After about 5 hours on the replacement, the same scenario occurred. I talked to others more knowledgeable than me (just about everyone) and elected to install another one just in case it was a bad alternator. You guessed it; same thing happened. BTW, before changing out the first alternator, I checked all electrical connections to see if I could find anything loose and could not. The only thing I found was the nut attaching the heavy gauge line from the positive battery to the master relay was snug but not tight. There was also a little residue on the master relay that looked like it may have 'arced' at some time. I sinched down the nut and hoped that was my problem. I am now on my 3rd alternator in a month. This time, I bought a "Plane Power" one from Vans. Yesterday, my ammeter started the boogie dance again. I shut off the alternator by turning off my field switch on my panel for a while and periodically turned it back on to charge the battery. But after it was on for a while, the ammeter started to quiver and dance as it has done before just before it failed. In all three cases, when the alternator is on, the battery is showing 14.5 volts. Also, all 3 alternators have internal voltage regulators. Any and all suggestions / advice is much appreciated. Ken Cantrell Lodi, CA 209-747-2903 _blank>www.aeroelectric.com /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ttp://forums.matronics.com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2011
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Eating Alternators...
On 11/17/2011 02:43 PM, Ken Cantrell wrote: > > Listers, > > I have put 1175 hours on my RV6 over the last 10 years and I'm > currently having serious alternator problems. > > I have Vans "steam" engine gauges including an analog ammeter and > voltage meter. While cruising at altitude about a month ago I noticed > my ammeter start to "quiver" a lot. After dancing back and forth from > neg to positive, it finally went solid to the negative side. I figured > I lost my alternator but wasn't too concerned. I turned off my strobes > to save battery life and headed home. My battery had plenty of life > for my radio and transponder. > > I removed my alternator, had it checked (it was dead) and bought a new > one. > > After about 5 hours on the replacement, the same scenario occurred. I > talked to others more knowledgeable than me (just about everyone) and > elected to install another one just in case it was a bad alternator. > You guessed it; same thing happened. BTW, before changing out the > first alternator, I checked all electrical connections to see if I > could find anything loose and could not. The only thing I found was > the nut attaching the heavy gauge line from the positive battery to > the master relay was snug but not tight. There was also a little > residue on the master relay that looked like it may have 'arced' at > some time. I sinched down the nut and hoped that was my problem. > > I am now on my 3^rd alternator in a month. This time, I bought a > "Plane Power" one from Vans. Yesterday, my ammeter started the boogie > dance again. I shut off the alternator by turning off my field switch > on my panel for a while and periodically turned it back on to charge > the battery. But after it was on for a while, the ammeter started to > quiver and dance as it has done before just before it failed. In all > three cases, when the alternator is on, the battery is showing 14.5 > volts. Also, all 3 alternators have internal voltage regulators. > > Any and all suggestions / advice is much appreciated. > > Ken Cantrell > > Lodi, CA > > 209-747-2903 > The easiest way to kill a 'one wire' alternator is to have the load drop off line suddenly. That sounds like what you're describing. If the load drops off, the regulator in the alternator cannot reduce the field voltage quickly enough to prevent a large spike in output voltage, which exceeds the ratings of the components in the regulator & it dies. If there's a loose connection or flaky contact anywhere in the circuit, it can look like an open circuit to the alternator. Any loss of continuity between the alternator & the load (battery and/or that electrical stuff that's operating) can cause this 'load dump'. This loss can be on the positive path, or the ground path. Check all connections between the alternator's output and the battery (screw terminals, contacters, circuit breakers, battery posts, etc). Also check the ground return path. (This one is easy to overlook.) Don't use the motor mount for your ground return from the motor to the airframe; make sure you have a ground strap from the motor itself (or better yet, the alternator case) to the airframe ground, and be sure that the airframe has a good connection to the battery negative. FWIW, Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2011
From: Mike Kellems <kellemsm(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Eating Alternators...
Ken, I had almost the same thing happen on my RV3 ... I decided to rewire =C2- after the 2nd alternator (internal regulators) and in the process fo und the heavy wire from the alternator to the ammeter/ breaker had a "hot" spot in it that was brittle and barely joined by a few strands. The only th ing holding it together was the "skin" .=C2- It tested good continuity bu t was in fact not letting the full amount of electricity through and would somehow burn the alternator up in short order. Replacing the wire fixed the problem and cured the bounce/jitter in the gauge. Might not be your issue but, wouldn't hurt to check. ...Mike DNA.... --- On Thu, 11/17/11, Ken Cantrell wrote: From: Ken Cantrell <kcflyrv(at)comcast.net> Subject: RV-List: Eating Alternators... Date: Thursday, November 17, 2011, 2:43 PM Listers,I have put 1175 hours on my RV6 over the last 10 years and I =99m currently having serious alternator problems. I have Vans =9Cste am=9D engine gauges including an analog ammeter and voltage meter. Wh ile cruising at altitude about a month ago I noticed my ammeter start to =9Cquiver=9D a lot. After dancing back and forth from neg to po sitive, it finally went solid to the negative side. I figured I lost my alt ernator but wasn=99t too concerned. I turned off my strobes to save b attery life and headed home. My battery had plenty of life for my radio and transponder. I removed my alternator, had it checked (it was dead) and bou ght a new one. After about 5 hours on the replacement, the same scenario oc curred. I talked to others more knowledgeable than me (just about everyone) and elected to install another one just in case it was a bad alternator. Y ou guessed it; same thing happened. BTW, before changing out the first alte rnator, I checked all electrical connections to see if I could find anything loose and could not. The only thing I found was the nut attaching the heavy gauge line from the positive battery to the master relay was snug but not tight. There was also a little residue on the master relay that looked like it may have =98arced =99 at some time. I sinched down the nut and hoped that was my problem. I am now on my 3rd alternator in a month. This time, I bought a =9CPl ane Power=9D one from Vans. Yesterday, my ammeter started the boogie dance again. I shut off the alternator by turning off my field switch on my panel for a while and periodically turned it back on to charge the battery . But after it was on for a while, the ammeter started to quiver and dance as it has done before just before it failed. In all three cases, when the a lternator is on, the battery is showing 14.5 volts. Also, all 3 alternators have internal voltage regulators. =C2-Any and all suggestions / advice i s much appreciated. ==================0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2011
Subject: Canopy leaks
From: Vince Frazier <vincefrazier(at)gmail.com>
A simple, cheap, and surefire way to keep water out is to simply carry a roll of decent quality electrical tape. If it looks like rain, simply place a piece of tape over the canopy joints and fuel caps. Electrical tape will peel off cleanly and doesn't adhere aggressively enough to lift paint. Unless your paint is crappy anyway. Another benefit is that you won't have a canopy cover taking up space when stored, nor will the tape cause any wear like a flapping, dirty canopy cover can. Thanks, Vince Frazier Flyboy Accessories 3963 Caborn Road North Mount Vernon, IN 47620 812-464-1839 1-888-8FLYBOY 1-888-835-9269 www.flyboyaccessories.com > > This my be a stupid question but here goes. I was thinking about taking my > newly bought RV-8 on a trip where it will have to be parked on a ramp for a > few days. I did not get a canopy cover with the plane and was wondering if > the -8's take in water when it rains? Also does anyone use the Light travel > canopy cover that Vans sells and does it keep out the rain? > > Thanks, > Matt ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2011
From: Bob <Deerlake(at)bresnan.net>
Subject: Re: Canopy leaks
Years ago on my RV6, I used pieces of static cling sun shade cut into squares, rectangles and strips to seal the leading edge of the tip up canopy, cover the fuel caps and the NACA air vents on the side of the fuselage. As long is the surface is dry when applied, the pieces stayed on. I remember putting a piece across the gap between the hood and fender on my Explorer and driving down a gravel road at 50 mph. The piece stayed on. Even after buying a canopy cover, I still used the sun shade pieces over the gas caps and vents and never had any of the pieces come off. Bob Skinner-former RV6 builder and owner 1995-2000 >> This my be a stupid question but here goes. I was thinking about taking my >> newly bought RV-8 on a trip where it will have to be parked on a ramp for a >> few days. I did not get a canopy cover with the plane and was wondering if >> the -8's take in water when it rains? Also does anyone use the Light travel >> canopy cover that Vans sells and does it keep out the rain? >> >> Thanks, >> Matt > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Cudney <yenduc(at)me.com>
Subject: Re: canopy leaks
Date: Nov 18, 2011
I've used the light weight Van's cover on my RV fro the last three years with no problem it is compact and easy to use and has kept things dry. dave RV 7A On Nov 17, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Matt Tucciarone wrote: > > > > This my be a stupid question but here goes. I was thinking about > taking my newly bought RV-8 on a trip where it will have to be > parked on a ramp for a few days. I did not get a canopy cover with > the plane and was wondering if the -8's take in water when it rains? > Also does anyone use the Light travel canopy cover that Vans sells > and does it keep out the rain? > > Thanks, > Matt > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Canopy leaks
From: Dale Ensing <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2011
Where did you purchase the static cling sheets? Sent from my iPad On Nov 18, 2011, at 10:03 AM, Bob wrote: > > Years ago on my RV6, I used pieces of static cling sun shade cut into squares, rectangles and strips to seal the leading edge of the tip up canopy, cover the fuel caps and the NACA air vents on the side of the fuselage. As long is the surface is dry when applied, the pieces stayed on. I remember putting a piece across the gap between the hood and fender on my Explorer and driving down a gravel road at 50 mph. The piece stayed on. Even after buying a canopy cover, I still used the sun shade pieces over the gas caps and vents and never had any of the pieces come off. > > Bob Skinner-former RV6 builder and owner 1995-2000 > >>> This my be a stupid question but here goes. I was thinking about taking my >>> newly bought RV-8 on a trip where it will have to be parked on a ramp for a >>> few days. I did not get a canopy cover with the plane and was wondering if >>> the -8's take in water when it rains? Also does anyone use the Light travel >>> canopy cover that Vans sells and does it keep out the rain? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Matt >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Canopy leaks
From: Tracy <rwstracy(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2011
My RV-8 was parked 40 feet in front of those 3 Pietenpols That were rolled u p in a ball during the torrential rain and tornado at Sun & Fun this year. Even without a cover the cockpit and fwd baggage area was bone dry afterwar ds. My -4 cockpit gets drenched in a light rain without a cover though. Tracy Crook On Nov 18, 2011, at 9:41 AM, Vince Frazier wrote: > > A simple, cheap, and surefire way to keep water out is to simply carry > a roll of decent quality electrical tape. If it looks like rain, > simply place a piece of tape over the canopy joints and fuel caps. > > Electrical tape will peel off cleanly and doesn't adhere aggressively > enough to lift paint. Unless your paint is crappy anyway. > > Another benefit is that you won't have a canopy cover taking up space > when stored, nor will the tape cause any wear like a flapping, dirty > canopy cover can. > > Thanks, > > Vince Frazier > Flyboy Accessories > 3963 Caborn Road North > Mount Vernon, IN 47620 > 812-464-1839 > 1-888-8FLYBOY > 1-888-835-9269 > www.flyboyaccessories.com > >> >> This my be a stupid question but here goes. I was thinking about taking m y >> newly bought RV-8 on a trip where it will have to be parked on a ramp for a >> few days. I did not get a canopy cover with the plane and was wondering i f >> the -8's take in water when it rains? Also does anyone use the Light trav el >> canopy cover that Vans sells and does it keep out the rain? >> >> Thanks, >> Matt > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2011
From: Bob <Deerlake(at)bresnan.net>
Subject: Re: Canopy leaks
At Walmart if I remember correctly. I used the same stuff on the top of my canopy to keep my bald head from getting burned & it worked well. Bob Skinner On 11/18/2011 9:12 AM, Dale Ensing wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Dale Ensing > > Where did you purchase the static cling sheets? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Nov 18, 2011, at 10:03 AM, Bob wrote: > >> --> RV-List message posted by: Bob >> >> Years ago on my RV6, I used pieces of static cling sun shade cut into squares, rectangles and strips to seal the leading edge of the tip up canopy, cover the fuel caps and the NACA air vents on the side of the fuselage. As long is the surface is dry when applied, the pieces stayed on. I remember putting a piece across the gap between the hood and fender on my Explorer and driving down a gravel road at 50 mph. The piece stayed on. Even after buying a canopy cover, I still used the sun shade pieces over the gas caps and vents and never had any of the pieces come off. >> >> Bob Skinner-former RV6 builder and owner 1995-2000 >> >>>> This my be a stupid question but here goes. I was thinking about taking my >>>> newly bought RV-8 on a trip where it will have to be parked on a ramp for a >>>> few days. I did not get a canopy cover with the plane and was wondering if >>>> the -8's take in water when it rains? Also does anyone use the Light travel >>>> canopy cover that Vans sells and does it keep out the rain? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Matt >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2011
Subject: Re: Canopy leaks
From: Dan Bergeron <dan.pat.b(at)gmail.com>
Matt: I've been flying my RV-7A for two years and two months since first flight on Aug 6, 2009. At home it sleeps in a hangar but on overnight cross countries it gets tied down on the ramp, where we use Vans' lightweight canopy cover. I recall one occasion where there was heavy rain overnight; the cockpit and behind the panel remained bone dry with the cover in place. On another occasion however the cover was dislodged to one side in a windstorm; no rain on that occasion so no issue with water. I've since run extra lines from each edge of the canopy cover and tie them off at the landing gear/fuselage intersection. So far - so good. Dan Bergeron RV-7A - N307TB 273 hours since 8/6/11 On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 12:28 PM, Bob wrote: > > At Walmart if I remember correctly. I used the same stuff on the top of > my canopy to keep my bald head from getting burned & it worked well. > > Bob Skinner > > > On 11/18/2011 9:12 AM, Dale Ensing wrote: > >> --> RV-List message posted by: Dale Ensing >> >> Where did you purchase the static cling sheets? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Nov 18, 2011, at 10:03 AM, Bob wrote: >> >> --> RV-List message posted by: Bob >>> >>> Years ago on my RV6, I used pieces of static cling sun shade cut into >>> squares, rectangles and strips to seal the leading edge of the tip up >>> canopy, cover the fuel caps and the NACA air vents on the side of the >>> fuselage. As long is the surface is dry when applied, the pieces stayed >>> on. I remember putting a piece across the gap between the hood and fender >>> on my Explorer and driving down a gravel road at 50 mph. The piece stayed >>> on. Even after buying a canopy cover, I still used the sun shade pieces >>> over the gas caps and vents and never had any of the pieces come off. >>> >>> Bob Skinner-former RV6 builder and owner 1995-2000 >>> >>> This my be a stupid question but here goes. I was thinking about taking >>>>> my >>>>> newly bought RV-8 on a trip where it will have to be parked on a ramp >>>>> for a >>>>> few days. I did not get a canopy cover with the plane and was >>>>> wondering if >>>>> the -8's take in water when it rains? Also does anyone use the Light >>>>> travel >>>>> canopy cover that Vans sells and does it keep out the rain? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Matt >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Whiteside" <erwhites(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Eating Alternators...
Date: Nov 18, 2011
Hi Ken, The volt meter indications may provide the more meaningful data in diagnosing your problem. A fully charged battery, by itself, can only produce a max of about 12.5 volts, and this will decline as loads increase and/or the battery discharges. With the alternator field switch OFF, you would expect to see roughly between 12.5 and 11.8 volts, depending on load and state of battery charge. With the engine turning at 1000 rpm or above, and alternator field switch ON, you say you are showing 14.5 volts. If this is the case, and it stays fairly constant as you switch loads (radios, lights, etc) on and off, the alternator/regulator would have to be functioning. If that is the case, your problem is most likely a bad connection or cable. As others have suggested, prime suspects would be the engine case to fuselage ground strap, or the alternator<->master contactor<->battery<->fuselage ground cables. Assuming your electrical system was trouble free prior to the recent problem, you might want to check for corrosion and secure mechanical fastening at all terminals (including terminal to wire crimps). Also check the alternator field switch and wiring. An intermittent connection or bad switch could cause the symptoms observed. Alternatively, you could have a failing device(radio, motor, pitot heater, etc) or intermittent short circuit to ground that is producing a fluctuating load. I may be overlooking something, or making a faulty assumption, so be sure to consider all suggestions offered by others. Lots of good help is also available on the AeroElectric List. Good luck, Eric Whiteside RV6 From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kellems Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 9:51 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Eating Alternators... Ken, I had almost the same thing happen on my RV3 ... I decided to rewire after the 2nd alternator (internal regulators) and in the process found the heavy wire from the alternator to the ammeter/ breaker had a "hot" spot in it that was brittle and barely joined by a few strands. The only thing holding it together was the "skin" . It tested good continuity but was in fact not letting the full amount of electricity through and would somehow burn the alternator up in short order. Replacing the wire fixed the problem and cured the bounce/jitter in the gauge. Might not be your issue but, wouldn't hurt to check. ...Mike DNA.... --- On Thu, 11/17/11, Ken Cantrell wrote: From: Ken Cantrell <kcflyrv(at)comcast.net> Subject: RV-List: Eating Alternators... Date: Thursday, November 17, 2011, 2:43 PM Listers, I have put 1175 hours on my RV6 over the last 10 years and I=99m currently having serious alternator problems. I have Vans =9Csteam=9D engine gauges including an analog ammeter and voltage meter. While cruising at altitude about a month ago I noticed my ammeter start to =9Cquiver=9D a lot. After dancing back and forth from neg to positive, it finally went solid to the negative side. I figured I lost my alternator but wasn=99t too concerned. I turned off my strobes to save battery life and headed home. My battery had plenty of life for my radio and transponder. I removed my alternator, had it checked (it was dead) and bought a new one. After about 5 hours on the replacement, the same scenario occurred. I talked to others more knowledgeable than me (just about everyone) and elected to install another one just in case it was a bad alternator. You guessed it; same thing happened. BTW, before changing out the first alternator, I checked all electrical connections to see if I could find anything loose and could not. The only thing I found was the nut attaching the heavy gauge line from the positive battery to the master relay was snug but not tight. There was also a little residue on the master relay that looked like it may have =98arced=99 at some time. I sinched down the nut and hoped that was my problem. I am now on my 3rd alternator in a month. This time, I bought a =9CPlane Power=9D one from Vans. Yesterday, my ammeter started the boogie dance again. I shut off the alternator by turning off my field switch on my panel for a while and periodically turned it back on to charge the battery. But after it was on for a while, the ammeter started to quiver and dance as it has done before just before it failed. In all three cases, when the alternator is on, the battery is showing 14.5 volts. Also, all 3 alternators have internal voltage regulators. Any and all suggestions / advice is much appreciated. Ken Cantrell Lodi, CA 209-747-2903 www.buil <http://www.buildersbooks.com> "_blank" href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com ="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contributifollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List; http://www.matronics.com/contrib============== = <http://forums.matronics.co=> <http://forums.matronics.co=> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: The Value of a Forum...
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30 worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a subscription to some magazine or even a dinner out. Arn't the Lists worth at least that much to you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that same amount and get a well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to think of it, you do... Won't you take a minute to make your Contribution today and support YOUR Lists? Please make a Contribution today at: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Again, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively through YOUR generosity!! Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2011
Subject: Free chart download no more?
From: Matthew Collier <ivdiggs(at)gmail.com>
Fellow RVr's, Please sign this petition to stop the FAA's plans to start charging for chart downloads that are currently free. 25,000 signatures are required by December 14th to stop it. Go here to sign: http://wh.gov/jCZ For more information on this see: http://www.generalaviationnews.com/2011/11/15/petition-launched-to-fight-faa-decision-to-charge-for-navigation-downloads/ and http://www.eaa.org/news/2011/2011-11-16_charts.asp Please forward this on to everyone you can. Thank you, Matthew Collier signature#2101 RV10 3.0L Reduction Drive Motors package 50.1 hours flying, and loving it! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make Sure You're Listed -- List of Contributors Published Dec
1! Dear Listers, The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! On December 1st I post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. As a number of people have pointed out in their Contribution comments, the Lists are a whole lot more valuable than your typical magazine subscription! Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matronics / Matt Dralle 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Contributions Down By 20%...
Dear Listers, As of today, Contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging behind last year at this time by roughly 20%. I have a Fund Raiser each year simply to cover my operating costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising income to support the Lists and rely solely on the Contributions of members to keep the expenses paid. I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and the Internet connection is a commercial-grade, T1 connection with public address space. I also maintain a full backup system that does nightly backups of all List-related data so that in the event of a server crash, all of the Lists and the many years of List archive data could be restored onto a new server in a matter of hours. All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a significant amount of my personal time. I have a Fund Raiser each year to cover these costs and I ask that members that feel they receive a benefit from my investments make a modest Contribution each year to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. If you enjoy the Lists, please make a Contribution today. I also offer some incentive gifts for larger Contribution levels. At the Contribution Web Site, you can use a credit card, Paypal, or personal check to show your support for the continuation of these services: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2011
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: electric trim conversion docs??
Anyone have pictures or documents on converting one of the older (-4, -6) elevators to electric trim? I'm contemplating the change on my flying -4 & I'm wondering how much of a hassle it will be to modify the elevator. The elevator is already off the plane for another issue, so the 1st step is already done. I'm aware of the need to re-balance; I'm more interested in whether I'll need to remove the stiffeners around the current manual trim, & how much structure needs to be fabbed & added for the trim motor. Thanks, Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: electric trim conversion docs??
From: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 24, 2011
Charlie, Warren GREtz used to sell a conversion kit. I don't see it on his site and furthermore his site seems defunct. However as I remember it, it was very simple and didn't require any rebalance at all. He simply mounted the servo motor on the stabilizer deck and used a short flexible link to the old trim tab. I can't remember what the link was perhaps a bowden cable? Hopefully someone will remember. I liked it better than the old Van's system which had the servo mounted in the elevator (mine is such in an RV 6A). Denis Walsh denis.walsh(at)comcast.net On Nov 24, 2011, at 6:37 , Charlie England wrote: > Anyone have pictures or documents on converting one of the older (-4, -6) elevators to electric trim? > > I'm contemplating the change on my flying -4 & I'm wondering how much of a hassle it will be to modify the elevator. The elevator is already off the plane for another issue, so the 1st step is already done. > > I'm aware of the need to re-balance; I'm more interested in whether I'll need to remove the stiffeners around the current manual trim, & how much structure needs to be fabbed & added for the trim motor. > > Thanks, > > Charlie > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: electric trim conversion docs??
At 06:09 PM 11/24/2011 Thursday, you wrote: >>Anyone have pictures or documents on converting one of the older (-4, -6) elevators to electric trim? >> >>I'm contemplating the change on my flying -4 & I'm wondering how much of a hassle it will be to modify the elevator. The elevator is already off the plane for another issue, so the 1st step is already done. >> >>I'm aware of the need to re-balance; I'm more interested in whether I'll need to remove the stiffeners around the current manual trim, & how much structure needs to be fabbed & added for the trim motor. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Charlie > Hi Charlie, I just did this very thing on my circa 1994 RV-6, The Flyer. I installed a servo under the fin and ran a short, standard green control cable to the original trim tab and horn. Works GREAT! Attached are some pictures of the retrofit. Matt - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Glass Panel & Interior Revitalization Log Status: 12 Hours Since Purchase - In Albany Oregon Getting Carpet... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2011
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: electric trim conversion docs??
On 11/24/2011 08:43 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > At 06:09 PM 11/24/2011 Thursday, you wrote: >>> Anyone have pictures or documents on converting one of the older (-4, -6) elevators to electric trim? >>> >>> I'm contemplating the change on my flying -4& I'm wondering how much of a hassle it will be to modify the elevator. The elevator is already off the plane for another issue, so the 1st step is already done. >>> >>> I'm aware of the need to re-balance; I'm more interested in whether I'll need to remove the stiffeners around the current manual trim,& how much structure needs to be fabbed& added for the trim motor. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Charlie > Hi Charlie, > > I just did this very thing on my circa 1994 RV-6, The Flyer. I installed a servo under the fin and ran a short, standard green control cable to the original trim tab and horn. Works GREAT! Attached are some pictures of the retrofit. > > Matt > > > - > Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle Thanks Matt; the trim tab end remains as Van designed it? Do you recall where you got the short control cable? Thanks, Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution...
There is less than a week left in this year's List Fund Raiser and only a few short days to grab one of the great Contribution Gifts available this year. Support is still significantly lagging behind last year at this point but hopefully it will pick up here towards the end. Please remember that it is solely the Contributions of List members that keeps the Lists up and running as there is no commercialism or advertising on the Matronics Lists and Forums. The List Contribution web site is secure, fast, and easy and you can use a credit card, Paypal: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 I want to thank everyone that has already made a generous contribution to support the Lists! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics EMail List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2011
From: George Steube <at6c(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: electric trim conversion docs??
Charlie, Come down and look at mine. Unless your elevator is really different it should be a "relatively" simple conversion. The servo is so light that balance of the elevator my not be effected. George On 11/24/2011 7:37 PM, Charlie England wrote: > Anyone have pictures or documents on converting one of the older (-4, > -6) elevators to electric trim? > > I'm contemplating the change on my flying -4 & I'm wondering how much > of a hassle it will be to modify the elevator. The elevator is already > off the plane for another issue, so the 1st step is already done. > > I'm aware of the need to re-balance; I'm more interested in whether > I'll need to remove the stiffeners around the current manual trim, & > how much structure needs to be fabbed & added for the trim motor. > > Thanks, > > Charlie > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2011
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: electric trim conversion docs??
Thanks; I'll give you a call. On 11/25/2011 07:39 AM, George Steube wrote: > Charlie, > Come down and look at mine. Unless your elevator is really different > it should be a "relatively" simple conversion. The servo is so light > that balance of the elevator my not be effected. > George > > On 11/24/2011 7:37 PM, Charlie England wrote: >> Anyone have pictures or documents on converting one of the older (-4, >> -6) elevators to electric trim? >> >> I'm contemplating the change on my flying -4 & I'm wondering how much >> of a hassle it will be to modify the elevator. The elevator is >> already off the plane for another issue, so the 1st step is already >> done. >> >> I'm aware of the need to re-balance; I'm more interested in whether >> I'll need to remove the stiffeners around the current manual trim, & >> how much structure needs to be fabbed & added for the trim motor. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2011
From: Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Fraudulent E-Mail Alert!!!!
I am notifying everyone in my e-mail address book.- ALERT!!!! - It appe ars some entity hijacked my e-mail account and is sending out fraudulent e- mails in my name.--The phoney e-mail message was sent out at 1:52 P.M. today. - DO NOT OPEN IT!!!!- - I have changed my password and taken other measures to protect my e-mail ac count from fraud.- I apologize for the inconvenience and thank you for un derstanding. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2011
From: Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fraudulent E-Mail Alert!!!!
Rick, -Thanks for the warning. FYI, you got nailed with a "Trojan" style comput er virus. Update your anti virus software and do a complete and comprehensi ve scan of your machine to locate and kill that virus. The virus spreads it self by emailing itself to everyone in your address book. Charlie Kuss --- On Sat, 11/26/11, Rick Galati wrote: From: Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RV-List: Fraudulent E-Mail Alert!!!! Date: Saturday, November 26, 2011, 4:30 PM I am notifying everyone in my e-mail address book.- ALERT!!!! - It appe ars some entity hijacked my e-mail account and is sending out fraudulent e- mails in my name.--The phoney e-mail message was sent out at 1:52 P.M. today.=0A-=0ADO NOT OPEN IT!!!!-=0A-=0AI have changed my password and taken other measures to protect my e-mail account from fraud.- I apologi ze for the inconvenience and thank you for understanding.=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make A Contribution Today...
Dear Listers, A quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser and the List of Contributors is quickly approching. The Matronics Lists are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are provided for by your Contributions during this time of the year. Your personal Contribution makes a big difference and keeps all of the Matronics Email Lists and Forums completely ad-free. Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running! http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2011
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Looking for a machinist
I need to have some spacer rings made from .063 aluminum. The spacer goes between the wheel and the upgraded/thicker brake disk and adds a safety gap for my 380-150-5 (15/600-5) tires mounted on stock 5x5 rims. I have an example as I had three made (the first two are installed originally. Someone out there did the first three - I need two more. Anyone interested in doing this - send me a cost estimate. Thanks, Ralph Capen RV6A N822AR @ N06 - discovered the value of a spare tire this weekend...by not having one! Glad I landed at homeplate.... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Detaching the Fuel Tank
At 01:34 PM 11/28/2011 Monday, you wrote: >--> RV6-List message posted by: George Nielsen > >Does anyone know how I can detach or remove the fuel tanks from the wings? I unscrewed the screws on the wing but the tank refuses to budge. > >Due to a fuel leak I need to remove the starboard tank. Fuel was dripping from the trailing edge of the wing root. > >Thanks. > >George Nielsen >RV-6 PH-XGN >The Hague, the Netherlands Hi George, I think there might be a hand full of AN3 bolts that you'll have to remove from the aft side of the spar before you can drop the fuel tank. On the RV-8, there were a lot of bolts. A lot. I can't remember if the -6/-4 have the same arrangement, but it would stand to reason. - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log Status: 18 Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Detaching the Fuel Tank
From: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 28, 2011
Denis Walsh denis.walsh(at)comcast.net I have had the honor to perform this task numerous times. There are no rear-baffle-to-spar-bolts on the six wing tank, so you are almost done. There is a bolt at the front and rear on the inboard side. These attach the inboard tank rib to the airplane. In the front it is a bracket, and in the rear it is a tongue fitting in to the fuselage carry through aft spar. You must remove the wing fairing to get to these. Even when you get all those fasteners out there are still some traps. there are a bunch of those screws which are dimpled these dimpled holes do not want to let go of the recessed holes they go in to. you sometimes have to persuade them with a sliding piece of shim material. I use a plastic putty knife to pry the skins up a little to clear the dimples. Further traps include: forgetting to unscrew and disengage the fuel lines and vent lines, and lastly the fuel level sender wire. Good luck. The fun is just beginning. wait til you drill holes in the aft baffle and start cleaning out the pro seal. On Nov 28, 2011, at 3:10 , Matt Dralle wrote: > > > At 01:34 PM 11/28/2011 Monday, you wrote: >> --> RV6-List message posted by: George Nielsen >> >> Does anyone know how I can detach or remove the fuel tanks from the wings? I unscrewed the screws on the wing but the tank refuses to budge. >> >> Due to a fuel leak I need to remove the starboard tank. Fuel was dripping from the trailing edge of the wing root. >> >> Thanks. >> >> George Nielsen >> RV-6 PH-XGN >> The Hague, the Netherlands > > > Hi George, > > I think there might be a hand full of AN3 bolts that you'll have to remove from the aft side of the spar before you can drop the fuel tank. On the RV-8, there were a lot of bolts. A lot. I can't remember if the -6/-4 have the same arrangement, but it would stand to reason. > > > - > Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle > > RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log > http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... > > RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" > http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log > Status: 18 Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2011
Subject: Re: Detaching the Fuel Tank
From: Dan Bergeron <dan.pat.b(at)gmail.com>
George: Once in a while a question comes up which I can actually answer. Sorry about your fuel leak - I believe the RV-6 has the same fuel tank attachment arrangement as my RV-7A - in addition to removing the screws which attach the tank to the top and bottom of the wing - you must also remove a number of AN-3 bolts which fasten the tank to the main wing spar - the back of the fuel tank is attached to the front of the main wing spar by a series of "Z" brackets which are bolted to the rear of the tank in front of the bracket and to the front of the spar at the rear of the bracket - you can access the bolts at the rear of the brackets by opening the inspection panels on the bottom of the wing - access is not difficult once the inspection panels are removed - the bolt heads will be obvious on the back of the spar - the brackets will stay bolted to the tank as it is removed - Good luck with the leak. Dan Bergeron RV-7A - N307TB 277 hours since first flight on Aug 6, 2009 On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 5:10 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > > At 01:34 PM 11/28/2011 Monday, you wrote: > >--> RV6-List message posted by: George Nielsen > > > >Does anyone know how I can detach or remove the fuel tanks from the > wings? I unscrewed the screws on the wing but the tank refuses to budge. > > > >Due to a fuel leak I need to remove the starboard tank. Fuel was dripping > from the trailing edge of the wing root. > > > >Thanks. > > > >George Nielsen > >RV-6 PH-XGN > >The Hague, the Netherlands > > > Hi George, > > I think there might be a hand full of AN3 bolts that you'll have to remove > from the aft side of the spar before you can drop the fuel tank. On the > RV-8, there were a lot of bolts. A lot. I can't remember if the -6/-4 > have the same arrangement, but it would stand to reason. > > > - > Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle > > RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log > http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... > > RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" > http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log > Status: 18 Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2011
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Detaching the Fuel Tank
Sorry, but RV-6 and RV-7 tanks are attached differently. Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 913 hours ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Bergeron" <dan.pat.b(at)gmail.com> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 5:25:01 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Detaching the Fuel Tank George: Once in a while a question comes up which I can actually answer. Sorry about your fuel leak - I believe the RV-6 has the same fuel tank attachment arrangement as my RV-7A - in addition to removing the screws which attach the tank to the top and bottom of the wing - you must also remove a number of AN-3 bolts which fasten the tank to the main wing spar - the back of the fuel tank is attached to the front of the main wing spar by a series of "Z" brackets which are bolted to the rear of the tank in front of the bracket and to the front of the spar at the rear of the bracket - you can access the bolts at the rear of the brackets by opening the inspection panels on the bottom of the wing - access is not difficult once the inspection panels are removed - the bolt heads will be obvious on the back of the spar - the brackets will stay bolted to the tank as it is removed - Good luck with the leak. Dan Bergeron RV-7A - N307TB 277 hours since first flight on Aug 6, 2009 On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 5:10 PM, Matt Dralle < dralle(at)matronics.com > wrote: At 01:34 PM 11/28/2011 Monday, you wrote: >--> RV6-List message posted by: George Nielsen < genie(at)swissmail.org > > >Does anyone know how I can detach or remove the fuel tanks from the wings? I unscrewed the screws on the wing but the tank refuses to budge. > >Due to a fuel leak I need to remove the starboard tank. Fuel was dripping from the trailing edge of the wing root. > >Thanks. > >George Nielsen >RV-6 PH-XGN >The Hague, the Netherlands Hi George, I think there might be a hand full of AN3 bolts that you'll have to remove from the aft side of the spar before you can drop the fuel tank. On the RV-8, there were a lot of bolts. A lot. I can't remember if the -6/-4 have the same arrangement, but it would stand to reason. - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log Status: 18 Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode =========== ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution le, List Admin. =========== get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List =========== http://forums.matronics.com =========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2011
Subject: Re: Detaching the Fuel Tank
From: Dan Bergeron <dan.pat.b(at)gmail.com>
George: Oops - I stand corrected - RV-6 and RV-7 tanks are attached differently - and I thought - finally I'm able to help someone out with an answer to a question Sorry about that, Dan Bergeron On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 8:38 PM, wrote: > Sorry, but RV-6 and RV-7 tanks are attached differently. > > Harry Crosby > RV-6 N16CX, 913 hours > > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Dan Bergeron" <dan.pat.b(at)gmail.com> > *To: *rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent: *Monday, November 28, 2011 5:25:01 PM > *Subject: *Re: RV-List: Re: Detaching the Fuel Tank > > > George: > Once in a while a question comes up which I can actually answer. > Sorry about your fuel leak - I believe the RV-6 has the same fuel tank > attachment arrangement as my RV-7A - in addition to removing the screws > which attach the tank to the top and bottom of the wing - you must also > remove a number of AN-3 bolts which fasten the tank to the main wing spar > - the back of the fuel tank is attached to the front of the main wing > spar by a series of "Z" brackets which are bolted to the rear of the tank > in front of the bracket and to the front of the spar at the rear of the > bracket - you can access the bolts at the rear of the brackets by opening > the inspection panels on the bottom of the wing - access is not difficult > once the inspection panels are removed - the bolt heads will be obvious on > the back of the spar - the brackets will stay bolted to the tank as it is > removed - Good luck with the leak. > Dan Bergeron > RV-7A - N307TB > 277 hours since first > flight on Aug 6, 2009 > > > On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 5:10 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > >> >> >> At 01:34 PM 11/28/2011 Monday, you wrote: >> >--> RV6-List message posted by: George Nielsen >> > >> >Does anyone know how I can detach or remove the fuel tanks from the >> wings? I unscrewed the screws on the wing but the tank refuses to budge. >> > >> >Due to a fuel leak I need to remove the starboard tank. Fuel was >> dripping from the trailing edge of the wing root. >> > >> >Thanks. >> > >> >George Nielsen >> >RV-6 PH-XGN >> >The Hague, the Netherlands >> >> >> Hi George, >> >> I think there might be a hand full of AN3 bolts that you'll have to >> remove from the aft side of the spar before you can drop the fuel tank. On >> the RV-8, there were a lot of bolts. A lot. I can't remember if the -6/-4 >> have the same arrangement, but it would stand to reason. >> >> >> - >> Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle >> >> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" >> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log >> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log >> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel >> Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... >> >> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" >> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log >> Status: 18 Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer >> Mode >> >> >> ========== >> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com >> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> le, List Admin. >> ========== >> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > * > > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com > " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Detaching the Fuel Tank
From: Chris Hand <chris_hand(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 28, 2011
Close, but don't need to remove the rear spar bolt to pull just the tank. Just the screws, bolt at leading edge under wing root fairing, and the tank connections mentioned below. Chris On Nov 28, 2011, at 2:30 PM, Denis Walsh wrote: > > > Denis Walsh > denis.walsh(at)comcast.net > > I have had the honor to perform this task numerous times. > > There are no rear-baffle-to-spar-bolts on the six wing tank, so you are almost done. > > There is a bolt at the front and rear on the inboard side. These attach the inboard tank rib to the airplane. In the front it is a bracket, and in the rear it is a tongue fitting in to the fuselage carry through aft spar. You must remove the wing fairing to get to these. > > Even when you get all those fasteners out there are still some traps. > > there are a bunch of those screws which are dimpled these dimpled holes do not want to let go of the recessed holes they go in to. you sometimes have to persuade them with a sliding piece of shim material. I use a plastic putty knife to pry the skins up a little to clear the dimples. > > Further traps include: forgetting to unscrew and disengage the fuel lines and vent lines, and lastly the fuel level sender wire. > > Good luck. The fun is just beginning. wait til you drill holes in the aft baffle and start cleaning out the pro seal. > > On Nov 28, 2011, at 3:10 , Matt Dralle wrote: > >> >> >> At 01:34 PM 11/28/2011 Monday, you wrote: >>> --> RV6-List message posted by: George Nielsen >>> >>> Does anyone know how I can detach or remove the fuel tanks from the wings? I unscrewed the screws on the wing but the tank refuses to budge. >>> >>> Due to a fuel leak I need to remove the starboard tank. Fuel was dripping from the trailing edge of the wing root. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> George Nielsen >>> RV-6 PH-XGN >>> The Hague, the Netherlands >> >> >> Hi George, >> >> I think there might be a hand full of AN3 bolts that you'll have to remove from the aft side of the spar before you can drop the fuel tank. On the RV-8, there were a lot of bolts. A lot. I can't remember if the -6/-4 have the same arrangement, but it would stand to reason. >> >> >> - >> Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle >> >> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" >> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log >> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log >> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel >> Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... >> >> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" >> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log >> Status: 18 Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just Two Days Left - Still Way Behind...
Dear Listers, There are just two more days left in this years List Fund Raiser. Over the last few weeks I have received some really nice comments from members on what the Lists have meant to them. I have included some of them below. Please read over the comments and ponder on your own feelings about the Lists and the support and camaraderie you have found here. We are still way behind last year in terms of the number of contributions. I really want to keep providing these services to the homebuilt community, but it take resources. Since there's no advertising budget or deep pockets to keep the operation a float, its solely your generosity during the Fund Raiser that keeps things going. Please make a Contribution today. If you've been putting off showing your support for the Lists, now is the time to do it! Make a contribution with a Credit Card or though PayPal at that Matronics Contribution web site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a check in the mail: Matronics / Matt Dralle 581 Jeannie Way Livermore, CA 94550 Thank you in advance for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ==================== A Few List Member Comments ===================== I get a lot of useful information and satisfaction from belonging to your groups. Somehow you foster a great sense of community without the baggage that accompanies other lists. Dave S. We do appreciate you running the lists spam and advertising free. Jeff P. I am celebrating my first flight day and you and the lists deserve a thanks since without it my build would have taken twice as long. Chris L. I enjoy the list. Have my morning coffee with it! Buddy M. Your lists are the best investment of my time and money, bar none, when it comes to interfacing with my fellow amateur builders. Owen B. Keep it going!! Thanks for taking over. Wallace J. I enjoy the Pietenpol List a lot. Malcolm Z. Thanks for your great site! As a new CJ-6 owner, your web site is an invaluable resource. Ken B. Great informational source. Fred S. Thanks for doing this! Lance G. Thank you for the service i do enjoy the many hours I use on line with the banter/ serious technical items. Noel G. Thanks for the years of builder support. Roy H. Great forum! Roger C. Thank you VERY MUCH, Matt, for carrying on with this great service. The "Europa" community really appreciates it. All the best, Svein - now celebrating 10 years as a subscriber, I think! Svein J. Matt, I'm building a much nicer and safer airplane because of your efforts. Robert D. 21 years for you 9 years for me on the Zenith lists. Could not imagine building and flying without Matronics. Brian U. Thanks for ALL the hard work and time you put into maintaining these forums. As an EAA Tech counselor I recommend them often. Paul M. This Pietenpol list is a huge part of the motivation that keeps me working on my project. This has been a great place for meeting like minded folks and getting help for the difficult parts. Thomas S. Thanks for the excellent service Matt. Frank S. Matt, I'm a Sonex building, but I have to say that the Piet group is without a doubt the most interesting. Ken M. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the Piet List. This is one of my sanity lifelines! Daniel H. Your site has provided us over the years with excellent connections to others for advice. Good job! Bob M. Kolb List is my #1 source! Henry V. Matt, you do a great job with this site. I've been with it since the beginning! John M. I am very grateful for all of your excellent work on the List. Arthur L. Thank you for the service you provide us all! Nicholas C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Detaching the Fuel Tank
Date: Nov 29, 2011
Well said. Two sentences covered it all. The more I run on the greater the chance of error. Thanks. On Nov 29, 2011, at 12:24 AM, Chris Hand wrote: > > Close, but don't need to remove the rear spar bolt to pull just the tank. Just the screws, bolt at leading edge under wing root fairing, and the tank connections mentioned below. > > Chris > > On Nov 28, 2011, at 2:30 PM, Denis Walsh wrote: > >> >> >> Denis Walsh >> denis.walsh(at)comcast.net >> >> I have had the honor to perform this task numerous times. >> >> There are no rear-baffle-to-spar-bolts on the six wing tank, so you are almost done. >> >> There is a bolt at the front and rear on the inboard side. These attach the inboard tank rib to the airplane. In the front it is a bracket, and in the rear it is a tongue fitting in to the fuselage carry through aft spar. You must remove the wing fairing to get to these. >> >> Even when you get all those fasteners out there are still some traps. >> >> there are a bunch of those screws which are dimpled these dimpled holes do not want to let go of the recessed holes they go in to. you sometimes have to persuade them with a sliding piece of shim material. I use a plastic putty knife to pry the skins up a little to clear the dimples. >> >> Further traps include: forgetting to unscrew and disengage the fuel lines and vent lines, and lastly the fuel level sender wire. >> >> Good luck. The fun is just beginning. wait til you drill holes in the aft baffle and start cleaning out the pro seal. >> >> On Nov 28, 2011, at 3:10 , Matt Dralle wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> At 01:34 PM 11/28/2011 Monday, you wrote: >>>> --> RV6-List message posted by: George Nielsen >>>> >>>> Does anyone know how I can detach or remove the fuel tanks from the wings? I unscrewed the screws on the wing but the tank refuses to budge. >>>> >>>> Due to a fuel leak I need to remove the starboard tank. Fuel was dripping from the trailing edge of the wing root. >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> George Nielsen >>>> RV-6 PH-XGN >>>> The Hague, the Netherlands >>> >>> >>> Hi George, >>> >>> I think there might be a hand full of AN3 bolts that you'll have to remove from the aft side of the spar before you can drop the fuel tank. On the RV-8, there were a lot of bolts. A lot. I can't remember if the -6/-4 have the same arrangement, but it would stand to reason. >>> >>> >>> - >>> Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle >>> >>> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" >>> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log >>> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log >>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel >>> Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... >>> >>> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" >>> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log >>> Status: 18 Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ian Brown <ixb(at)videotron.ca>
Subject: Fuel Tank Leaks
Date: Nov 29, 2011
To George Nielsen, I've also run into the problem of leaking fuel tanks on my RV-9A. I discovered that if you remove the tank and pour diluted pro-seal in through the filler hole you can avoid a lot of work disassembling or drilling holes in the tank. As a diluant I found that a product sold in Canada as "lacquer thinner" worked really well. Acetone evaporates too quickly (but it seems to be a good cleaner before you start). You need to make the mixture really runny. Experiment with it until you can get something quite liquid, but that will set up fairly hard overnight. One of the ingredients in lacquer thinner is methyl ethyl ketone (MEK). You just need to identify where the leak is (with GENTLE air pressure from something like a balloon) using soapy water. Once you're convinced that's the only leaking area, focus on letting the diluted proseal flow along that seal by the positioning of the tank. Ian Brown, Bromont, QC, C-GOHM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser!
Dear Listers, Its November 30th and that means a couple of things. Its my birthday again, 48 of them, in fact! But it also means that its that last official day of the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been jones'n over one of those really nice incentive gifts now is the time to jump on one!! If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting it off for some reason, NOW is the time! I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want to be known as a person that supported the Lists! I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution this year in support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation running and I don't ever forget it. Hopefully everyone feels the same. Below are a few more of the nice comments from Listers I've received this year. Please read them over and see if you don't agree. The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making your Contribution right now: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you to all in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ==================== A Few More List Member Comments ===================== I never would have ended up with the great flying airplane I have without the help of people on the Pietenpol list. Thanks for giving us the medium to communicate our questions, tips and suggestions. Matt P. Thanks for the hard work and maintaining the site commercial free. Good luck for the future and this site has been a source of great friendship. Peter B. It is a great resource. Jim G. Thanks so much for your continuing support of the homebuilt community. Gerald A. You are doing an outstanding job running the list's. Keep it going. Bill V. Thanks for keeping this valuable information source going. Best of all the forums. George A. Another Great year on the RV-List! Thomas E. Still the best source of information (& opinion) for builders on a wide range of issues. Martin H. Matt, thanks for hosting and maintaining the lists! Rumen D. It is a great resource. Bryan R. Thanks for your continuing interest in Van's RV8 kitplanes. Peter C. I'm no longer building or flying but like to keep in touch with the current generation of builders. Best wishes to a great list system. Gerry C. A great list that is most useful for builders. Graham H. Thanks for this wonderful tool! Ralph C. Thanks for a great service to the experimental aviation community. Douglas D. Great topics and loads of useful info keep the subject matter relevant. George H. Thanks for keeping this going. Richard R. Great facility and well managed. Victor F. Thanks for a great service. John D. Thank you for you time and efforts they have made Aviation a better place for everyone. Jim W. I still enjoy getting the list in the morning. Don M. You provide a great resource. David M. You have probably saved a few necks over the years. Robert F. Thank you for being there. Benjamin B. You perform a great service. Bruce M. Thank you for providing this invaluable resource. William D. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Hardware Failure - Matronics Web Servers Currently Offline
failure and is currently not available. Replacement hardware has been ordered and should arrive on Tuesday 12/6/2011. All services should be restored shortly there after. During the outage, the Matronics Forums, Wiki, and other web-based List services will NOT be available. However, during the outage, all normal EMAIL based sevices WILL be available so you may continue to post messages to the various lists without an issue. I am so sorry for any inconvenience this web server outage has caused... Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 07, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Matronics Web Services Restored!
Dear Listers, web services have been fully restored including the Web Forums, List Browse, Archive Search, Wiki, and AeroElectric web sites. It was quite an ordeal getting the replacement boards for the server, but things went back together tonight and are up and running nicely. The first company I ordered the boards from originally called me a day later to say that, whoops, they really didn't have them in stock after all... Fortunately, I was able to locate some through a different source and had then over-nighted and they arrived today. Thank you for your patience and consideration though the whole thing! The List Contribution web site is also back on line for those wishing to make a donation to the effort: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 19, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: 2011 List of Contributors
Dear Listers, The 2011 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of weeks ago and its time that I publish this year's List of Contributors. Its the people on this list that directly make the Email Lists and Forums possible. Their generous contributions keep the servers and Internet connection up and running! You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 I also want to thank Bob, Jon, and Andy for their generous support through the supply of great gifts this year!! These guys have some great products and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites: Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - http://www.aeroelectric.com Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - http://www.homebuilthelp.com Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com And finally, I'm proud to present The 2011 Fund Raiser List of Contributors: http://www.matronics.com/loc/2011.html Thanks again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 21, 2011
Subject: Fwd: Receipt for Your Payment to Doug Reeves
From: Ollie Washburn <ollies7s(at)gmail.com>
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: service(at)paypal.com <service(at)paypal.com> Date: Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 10:35 AM Subject: Receipt for Your Payment to Doug Reeves Transaction ID: 28790349LY0603410 Hello Oliver Washburn, You sent a payment of $30.00 USD to Doug Reeves It may take a few moments for this transaction to appear in your account. ------------------------------ Merchant Doug Reeves Instructions to merchant You haven't entered any instructions.Shipping address - confirmed Oliver Washburn 3841 SE 158th Ter. Weirsdale, FL 32195 United States Shipping details The seller hasn=99t provided any shipping details yet.DescriptionUnit priceQty Amount $30.00 USD1$30.00 USD*Subtotal*$30.00 USDTotal$30.00 USDPayment$30.00 USD Issues with this transaction? You have 45 days from the date of the transaction to open a dispute in the Resolution Center. Questions? Go to the Help Center at: www.paypal.com/help. Please do not reply to this email. This mailbox is not monitored and you will not receive a response. For assistance, log in to your PayPal account and click *Help* in the top right corner of any PayPal page. You can receive plain text emails instead of HTML emails. To change your Notifications preferences, log in to your account, go to your Profile, and click *My settings*. PayPal Email ID PP120 -- >From Central Florida, Ollie ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fwd: Receipt for Your Payment to Doug Reeves
From: Smitty <smitty(at)smittysrv.com>
Date: Dec 21, 2011
What the heck is this? Sent from my iPad On Dec 21, 2011, at 7:20 AM, Ollie Washburn wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: service(at)paypal.com <service(at)paypal.com> > Date: Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 10:35 AM > Subject: Receipt for Your Payment to Doug Reeves > To: Oliver Washburn > > > Transaction ID: 28790349LY0603410 > Hello Oliver Washburn, > > You sent a payment of $30.00 USD to Doug Reeves > > > > It may take a few moments for this transaction to appear in your account. > Merchant > Doug Reeves > Instructions to merchant > You haven't entered any instructions. > Shipping address - confirmed > Oliver Washburn > 3841 SE 158th Ter. > Weirsdale, FL 32195 > United States > Shipping details > The seller hasn=99t provided any shipping details yet. > Description Unit price Qty Amount > > $30.00 USD 1 $30.00 USD > Subtotal $30.00 USD > Total $30.00 USD > Payment $30.00 USD > > > Issues with this transaction? > You have 45 days from the date of the transaction to open a dispute in the Resolution Center. > > Questions? Go to the Help Center at: www.paypal.com/help. > > Please do not reply to this email. This mailbox is not monitored and you w ill not receive a response. For assistance, log in to your PayPal account an d click Help in the top right corner of any PayPal page. > > You can receive plain text emails instead of HTML emails. To change your N otifications preferences, log in to your account, go to your Profile, and cl ick My settings. > > > PayPal Email ID PP120 > > > > -- > =46rom Central Florida, > Ollie > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 21, 2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Receipt for Your Payment to Doug Reeves
From: Ollie Washburn <ollie6a(at)embarqmail.com>
Sorry, it was a wrong button push. On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 9:09 AM, Smitty wrote: > What the heck is this? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 21, 2011, at 7:20 AM, Ollie Washburn wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: service(at)paypal.com <service(at)paypal.com> > Date: Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 10:35 AM > Subject: Receipt for Your Payment to Doug Reeves > To: Oliver Washburn > > > Transaction ID: 28790349LY0603410 > Hello Oliver Washburn, > > You sent a payment of $30.00 USD to Doug Reeves > > > It may take a few moments for this transaction to appear in your account. > ------------------------------ > Merchant > Doug Reeves > Instructions to merchant > You haven't entered any instructions. Shipping address - confirmed > Oliver Washburn > 3841 SE 158th Ter. > Weirsdale, FL 32195 > United States > Shipping details > The seller hasn=99t provided any shipping details yet. DescriptionU nit priceQty > Amount > $30.00 USD1$30.00 USD *Subtotal*$30.00 USDTotal $30.00 USDPayment $30.00 > USD > > Issues with this transaction? > You have 45 days from the date of the transaction to open a dispute in th e > Resolution Center. > > Questions? Go to the Help Center at: www.paypal.com/help. > > Please do not reply to this email. This mailbox is not monitored and you > will not receive a response. For assistance, log in to your PayPal accoun t > and click *Help* in the top right corner of any PayPal page. > > You can receive plain text emails instead of HTML emails. To change your > Notifications preferences, log in to your account, go to your Profile, an d > click *My settings*. > > > PayPal Email ID PP120 > > > -- > From Central Florida, > Ollie > > * > > ======================== ===========ctric.com > >www.buildersbooks.comuilthelp.commatronics.com/contribution > ======================== > /www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > ======================== ===========cs.com > ======================== ===========matronics.com/contribution > ======================== > * > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > -- >From Central Florida, Ollie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 21, 2011
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Receipt for Your Payment to Doug Reeves
and payment to the wrong list! :-) On 12/21/2011 08:27 AM, Ollie Washburn wrote: > Sorry, it was a wrong button push. > > On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 9:09 AM, Smitty > wrote: > > What the heck is this? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 21, 2011, at 7:20 AM, Ollie Washburn > wrote: > >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: *service(at)paypal.com <mailto:service(at)paypal.com>* >> > >> Date: Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 10:35 AM >> Subject: Receipt for Your Payment to Doug Reeves >> To: Oliver Washburn > >> >> >> >> Transaction ID: 28790349LY0603410 >> >> >> >> Hello Oliver Washburn, >> >> You sent a payment of $30.00 USD to Doug Reeves >> >> >> >> >> >> >> It may take a few moments for this transaction to appear in your >> account. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Merchant >> Doug Reeves >> Instructions to merchant >> You haven't entered any instructions. >> Shipping address - confirmed >> Oliver Washburn >> 3841 SE 158th Ter. >> Weirsdale, FL 32195 >> United States >> Shipping details >> The seller hasn't provided any shipping details yet. >> >> Description Unit price Qty Amount >> >> $30.00 USD 1 $30.00 USD >> >> *Subtotal* $30.00 USD >> Total $30.00 USD >> Payment $30.00 USD >> >> >> >> >> >> Issues with this transaction? >> You have 45 days from the date of the transaction to open a >> dispute in the Resolution Center. >> >> Questions? Go to the Help Center at: www.paypal.com/help >> <http://www.paypal.com/help>. >> >> Please do not reply to this email. This mailbox is not monitored >> and you will not receive a response. For assistance, log in to >> your PayPal account and click *Help* in the top right corner of >> any PayPal page. >> >> You can receive plain text emails instead of HTML emails. To >> change your Notifications preferences, log in to your account, go >> to your Profile, and click *My settings*. >> >> >> PayPal Email ID PP120 >> >> >> >> >> -- >> From Central Florida, >> Ollie >> * >> >> ========= >> ctric.com <http://ctric.com> >> >www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com> >> uilthelp.com <http://uilthelp.com> >> matronics.com/contribution <http://matronics.com/contribution> >> ========= >> /www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List> >> ========= >> cs.com <http://cs.com> >> ========= >> matronics.com/contribution <http://matronics.com/contribution> >> ========= >> >> * > > * > > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com > .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > > -- > From Central Florida, > Ollie > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 21, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Sweet HD Aircraft Video Cam
Some probably have already seen this, but I noticed that ACS has it on sale right now for $399 plus an extra 10% off with the check out code "PILOT12". I'd be interested to hear any impressions of the system and the actual 1080p video quality. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/dataavhd.php Best, - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log Status: 26+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 22, 2011
Subject: Sweet camera deal
From: Martin Hone <aerobiz1(at)gmail.com>
Hey Matt, Sorry to rain on your parade, but I reckon you cannot go past the Drift HD170 Stealth at $159.00 Similar specs and comes with remote control..... http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/751813-REG/Drift_SHD170_HD170_Stealth_Action_Camera.html Merry Xmas Martin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 22, 2011
From: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Sweet HD Aircraft Video Cam
I have not got much experience with the HD versions of the Data Toys system but I do have their non-HD system.- =0A-=0ATheir claims of picture qua lity (with the older system at least) were complete BS.- I was suckered i nto buying their $600.00 system that was billed as being great for Youtube quality videos.- I clipped it to the mirror of my truck and drove down th e street.- The video was so poor that you could not tell if the trees wer e diciduous or evergreen, they were just green blobs.--Datatoys came ac cross as having great customer service and seemed very willing to work with me and convinced me to step up the their high end system for about-$1500 dollars.- The picture quality was better but now only as good as what I would have expected from the $600 dollar system, essentially low quality yo utube crap.- After sending the whole thing back a couple of times I basic ally gave up until I could discuss things with them at Oshkosh.- I took -one of my-data cards with video on it with me to Oshkosh this year and let them play it on their computer-and was told essentially "what, you're not happy-with that picture quality?- We'd b e happy to sell you more expensive equipment"--=0A-=0AFool me once, s hame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.=0A-=0AI don't recommend Datatoys equipment.- I have since switched to the Contour based N-Flight cam with the aviator lens on it and am much happier with the picture quality.- Da tatoys was a $1500.00 lesson on what NOT to buy.=0A-=0ADoug MacDonald=0AN W Ontario, Canada=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Matt Dra lle =0ATo: rv-list(at)matronics.com; rv10-list@matronics .com; rv8-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 9:00:19 PM=0ASubject: RV-List: Sweet HD Aircraft Video Cam=0A=0A--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle =0A=0A=0ASome probably have a lready seen this, but I noticed that ACS has it on sale right now for $399 plus an extra 10% off with the check out code "PILOT12".=0A=0AI'd be intere sted to hear any impressions of the system and the actual 1080p video quali ty.=0A=0A- - - - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/data avhd.php=0A=0ABest,=0A=0A=0A-=0AMatt "Red Dawg" Dralle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com>
Subject: Sweet camera deal
Date: Dec 22, 2011
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Date: Dec 22, 2011
Subject: Re: Sweet camera deal
From: thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com>
Robin: I want to use the HD camera to record instruments in the panel. I have 2 questions: 1) Did you try hanging the Drift from the canopy between the seats looking forward (I have a 6A)? If so, were the instruments readable in the video? 2) What is the field of view of the camera? Is it very wide, comparable to the GoPro's 130 deg. ? Or is it more typical of most cameras - that is - in the 40 - 50 deg. range? I was looking at the Koday Zx3. Only 90$ and has image stabilization. The narrower field with makes it more likely to make instruments readable at HD resolution. On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Robin Marks wrote : > I own the Drift HD 170 that I got for a good deal at $199 delivered (was > $299 at one point) so that BH deal looks pretty sweet. I settled on this > unit after being disappointed with my HD Point & Shoot which do great for > family video but not so good for action video. I chose this unit > specifically because it has an audio input so I can easily input the comm > audio with the video plus I thought the remote would be really beneficial > for avoiding 80% video you don=99t want to get the place where you want to > film. Unfortunately the remote has a limited range and it is difficult to > know if you are recording remotely unless you get this optional LED light > attachment which then means you have this additional wire hanging out the > back plus an additional cap etc**** > > The camera is larger than you may expect but it does give you a lot of > options for mounting because it has a standard camera thread base. I adde d > the RAM ball to that then use several different RAM mounting devices > depending on where I want the camera positioned. Sorry I no longer have t he > photo of my wing mount. **** > > Overall I am pleased especially for the price. I do plan on buying some > version of the Contour at some point as that also seems like a really nic e > set up. I will use the Drift in the cockpit for the audio and the Contour > mounted externally. I am not a fan of the GoPro form factor but they too > seem to take nice images.**** > > Here is my first attempt at flying with the camera mounted to the end of > my wing. I will correct the constant wobble apparent from this first > attempt. Also note the prop from this angle is distorted. But so is the > pilot.**** > > Oh, one last thing, this video is MUCH better with the music but YouTube > removed the sound due to royalty restrictions so feel free to hum while t he > video is playing.**** > > ** ** > > http://youtu.be/Ku9ASFiNtYA?hd=1**** > > -- Tom Sargent ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 22, 2011
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Sweet camera deal
Robin, Funny you should say that between the Drift and Contour... After getting the Contour+, it does a great job but my personal thought was I will buy a drift to go OUTSIDE and leave the Contour+ inside. The Contour+ has audio and GPS and everything, and does a good job inside, plus it has the rotating lens and the ability to get rid of the prop arc. The drift seems more aerodynamically suited for outside, and seems to be a great one for mounting outside with it's built in screw hole. So you're looking at it the exact opposite as I am. The wide field of view makes full-panel recording of instruments almost useless. You'd have to get the camera pretty close. Might work great to record one or two instruments though. Tim On 12/22/2011 12:02 PM, Robin Marks wrote: > I own the Drift HD 170 that I got for a good deal at $199 delivered (was > $299 at one point) so that BH deal looks pretty sweet. I settled on this > unit after being disappointed with my HD Point & Shoot which do great > for family video but not so good for action video. I chose this unit > specifically because it has an audio input so I can easily input the > comm audio with the video plus I thought the remote would be really > beneficial for avoiding 80% video you dont want to get the place where > you want to film. Unfortunately the remote has a limited range and it is > difficult to know if you are recording remotely unless you get this > optional LED light attachment which then means you have this additional > wire hanging out the back plus an additional cap etc > > The camera is larger than you may expect but it does give you a lot of > options for mounting because it has a standard camera thread base. I > added the RAM ball to that then use several different RAM mounting > devices depending on where I want the camera positioned. Sorry I no > longer have the photo of my wing mount. > > Overall I am pleased especially for the price. I do plan on buying some > version of the Contour at some point as that also seems like a really > nice set up. I will use the Drift in the cockpit for the audio and the > Contour mounted externally. I am not a fan of the GoPro form factor but > they too seem to take nice images. > > Here is my first attempt at flying with the camera mounted to the end of > my wing. I will correct the constant wobble apparent from this first > attempt. Also note the prop from this angle is distorted. But so is the > pilot. > > Oh, one last thing, this video is MUCH better with the music but YouTube > removed the sound due to royalty restrictions so feel free to hum while > the video is playing. > > http://youtu.be/Ku9ASFiNtYA?hd=1 > > Robin > > *From:*owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Martin Hone > *Sent:* Thursday, December 22, 2011 2:53 AM > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV-List: Sweet camera deal > > Hey Matt, > > Sorry to rain on your parade, but I reckon you cannot go past the Drift > HD170 Stealth at $159.00 > > Similar specs and comes with remote > control.....http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/751813-REG/Drift_SHD170_HD170_Stealth_Action_Camera.html > > Merry Xmas > > Martin > > * * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4PatA(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 22, 2011
Subject: Re: Sweet camera deal
Here is a video shot with the HD170 mounted to the canopy with a suction mount. Bump it up to HD to watch. The instruments are readable in some ligh t conditions. _http://youtu.be/zA_PqkgTALE_ (http://youtu.be/zA_PqkgTALE) In a message dated 12/22/2011 1:16:13 P.M. Central Standard Time, Tim(at)MyRV10.com writes: --> RV-List message posted by: Tim Olson Robin, Funny you should say that between the Drift and Contour... After getting the Contour+, it does a great job but my personal thought was I will buy a drift to go OUTSIDE and leave the Contour+ inside. The Contour+ has audio and GPS and everything, and does a good job inside, plus it has the rotating lens and the ability to get rid of the prop arc. The drift seems more aerodynamically suited for outside, and seems to be a great one for mounting outside with it's built in screw hole. So you're looking at it the exact opposite as I am. The wide field of view makes full-panel recording of instruments almost useless. You'd have to get the camera pretty close. Might work great to record one or two instruments though. Tim On 12/22/2011 12:02 PM, Robin Marks wrote: > I own the Drift HD 170 that I got for a good deal at $199 delivered (was > $299 at one point) so that BH deal looks pretty sweet. I settled on this > unit after being disappointed with my HD Point & Shoot which do great > for family video but not so good for action video. I chose this unit > specifically because it has an audio input so I can easily input the > comm audio with the video plus I thought the remote would be really > beneficial for avoiding 80% video you don=99t want to get the plac e where > you want to film. Unfortunately the remote has a limited range and it is > difficult to know if you are recording remotely unless you get this > optional LED light attachment which then means you have this additional > wire hanging out the back plus an additional cap etc > > The camera is larger than you may expect but it does give you a lot of > options for mounting because it has a standard camera thread base. I > added the RAM ball to that then use several different RAM mounting > devices depending on where I want the camera positioned. Sorry I no > longer have the photo of my wing mount. > > Overall I am pleased especially for the price. I do plan on buying some > version of the Contour at some point as that also seems like a really > nice set up. I will use the Drift in the cockpit for the audio and the > Contour mounted externally. I am not a fan of the GoPro form factor but > they too seem to take nice images. > > Here is my first attempt at flying with the camera mounted to the end of > my wing. I will correct the constant wobble apparent from this first > attempt. Also note the prop from this angle is distorted. But so is the > pilot. > > Oh, one last thing, this video is MUCH better with the music but YouTube > removed the sound due to royalty restrictions so feel free to hum while > the video is playing. > > http://youtu.be/Ku9ASFiNtYA?hd=1 > > Robin > > *From:*owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Martin Hone > *Sent:* Thursday, December 22, 2011 2:53 AM > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV-List: Sweet camera deal > > Hey Matt, > > Sorry to rain on your parade, but I reckon you cannot go past the Drift > HD170 Stealth at $159.00 > > Similar specs and comes with remote > control.....http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/751813-REG/Drift_SHD170_H D170_Stealth_Action_Camera.html > > Merry Xmas > > Martin > > * * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com>
Subject: Re: Sweet camera deal
Date: Dec 22, 2011
The drift in nor aerodynamic when turned sideways. And I didn't know the co ntour had audio. My drift audio is ideal for my 8A set up so that was my th inking. If u want to use my drift for a month or so let me know and then u can use side by side. Robin Sent from my Android Phone Tim Olson wrote: Robin, Funny you should say that between the Drift and Contour... After getting the Contour+, it does a great job but my personal thought was I will buy a drift to go OUTSIDE and leave the Contour+ inside. The Contour+ has audio and GPS and everything, and does a good job inside, plus it has the rotating lens and the ability to get rid of the prop arc. The drift seems more aerodynamically suited for outside, and seems to be a great one for mounting outside with it's built in screw hole. So you're looking at it the exact opposite as I am. The wide field of view makes full-panel recording of instruments almost useless. You'd have to get the camera pretty close. Might work great to record one or two instruments though. Tim On 12/22/2011 12:02 PM, Robin Marks wrote: > I own the Drift HD 170 that I got for a good deal at $199 delivered (was > $299 at one point) so that BH deal looks pretty sweet. I settled on this > unit after being disappointed with my HD Point & Shoot which do great > for family video but not so good for action video. I chose this unit > specifically because it has an audio input so I can easily input the > comm audio with the video plus I thought the remote would be really > beneficial for avoiding 80% video you don=92t want to get the place where > you want to film. Unfortunately the remote has a limited range and it is > difficult to know if you are recording remotely unless you get this > optional LED light attachment which then means you have this additional > wire hanging out the back plus an additional cap etc=85 > > The camera is larger than you may expect but it does give you a lot of > options for mounting because it has a standard camera thread base. I > added the RAM ball to that then use several different RAM mounting > devices depending on where I want the camera positioned. Sorry I no > longer have the photo of my wing mount. > > Overall I am pleased especially for the price. I do plan on buying some > version of the Contour at some point as that also seems like a really > nice set up. I will use the Drift in the cockpit for the audio and the > Contour mounted externally. I am not a fan of the GoPro form factor but > they too seem to take nice images. > > Here is my first attempt at flying with the camera mounted to the end of > my wing. I will correct the constant wobble apparent from this first > attempt. Also note the prop from this angle is distorted. But so is the > pilot. > > Oh, one last thing, this video is MUCH better with the music but YouTube > removed the sound due to royalty restrictions so feel free to hum while > the video is playing.=85 > > http://youtu.be/Ku9ASFiNtYA?hd=1 > > Robin > > *From:*owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Martin Hone > *Sent:* Thursday, December 22, 2011 2:53 AM > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV-List: Sweet camera deal > > Hey Matt, > > Sorry to rain on your parade, but I reckon you cannot go past the Drift > HD170 Stealth at $159.00 > > Similar specs and comes with remote > control.....http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/751813-REG/Drift_SHD170 _HD170_Stealth_Action_Camera.html > > Merry Xmas > > Martin > > * * rsbooks.com> m> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 22, 2011
From: bifft(at)xmission.com
Subject: Re: Sweet camera deal
Quoting thomas sargent : > Robin: > I want to use the HD camera to record instruments in the panel. I have 2 > questions: > > 1) Did you try hanging the Drift from the canopy between the seats looking > forward (I have a 6A)? If so, were the instruments readable in the video? > > 2) What is the field of view of the camera? Is it very wide, comparable to > the GoPro's 130 deg. ? Or is it more typical of most cameras - that is - in > the 40 - 50 deg. range? This isn't in an RV, but in a Starduster Too, with an Drift HD 170 mounted about where the passenger's head would go. Can read the instruments better than in the previously posted RV-4 video, and also they are much easier to read in the video from the camera vs. the youtube compression. http://youtu.be/lmTrlFAMcJs Not an intersting video otherwise, but does show the instruments well. Audio is just engine noise, hadn't gotten the cables to hook it up to the intercom when I took this, then one of the other partners had a prop strike, so haven't had a chance to test that feature yet. Field of view is 170 degrees. I too am hoping to use this to record my test flights in the RV, using the intercom to take notes. Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) RV-8A 80091 Mounting engine 1/4 Starduster Too N23UT Down for maintence. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sweet camera deal
From: Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au>
Date: Dec 23, 2011
Brian, Nice video! I do think you need to do some serious maintenance on the pitot/static system... Doug Gray On 23/12/2011, at 4:18 PM, bifft(at)xmission.com wrote: > > Quoting thomas sargent : > >> Robin: >> I want to use the HD camera to record instruments in the panel. I have 2 >> questions: >> >> 1) Did you try hanging the Drift from the canopy between the seats looking >> forward (I have a 6A)? If so, were the instruments readable in the video? >> >> 2) What is the field of view of the camera? Is it very wide, comparable to >> the GoPro's 130 deg. ? Or is it more typical of most cameras - that is - in >> the 40 - 50 deg. range? > > This isn't in an RV, but in a Starduster Too, with an Drift HD 170 mounted > about where the passenger's head would go. Can read the instruments better > than in the previously posted RV-4 video, and also they are much easier to > read in the video from the camera vs. the youtube compression. > > http://youtu.be/lmTrlFAMcJs > > Not an intersting video otherwise, but does show the instruments well. > Audio is just engine noise, hadn't gotten the cables to hook it up to the > intercom when I took this, then one of the other partners had a prop strike, > so haven't had a chance to test that feature yet. > > Field of view is 170 degrees. I too am hoping to use this to record > my test flights in the RV, using the intercom to take notes. > > Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) > RV-8A 80091 Mounting engine > 1/4 Starduster Too N23UT Down for maintence. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com>
Subject: Sweet camera deal
Date: Dec 23, 2011
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Date: Dec 24, 2011
Subject: Re Video cameras
From: Martin Hone <aerobiz1(at)gmail.com>
I don't know how the Drift HD170 Stealth goes showing an EFIS display, though I will be finding out in a week or so, but for steam gauges it is great. I have mounted it on the wing ( a bit further forward than most so I get the u/c) and used it as a helmet cam. Both work great. And the wireless remote is really useful, as is the ability to rotate the lens. Remember, it only cost $159 Here are a couple of You tube links that will give you an idea, and despite not using it in HD1080 mode, just the regular 720, the pictures are excellent - especially when the camera is played back on the big screen TV ! The only criticism I have at this stage is the funny things it does to the prop. Here is a landing from the wing : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWXHznnvLD4 This using it as a helmetcam, showing panel : : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW6oJgF3I_U FWIW, Martin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com>
Subject: Re Video cameras
Date: Dec 24, 2011
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From: Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com>
Subject: Re Video cameras
Date: Dec 24, 2011
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From: "Generation 3 Ignition" <mail(at)g3ignition.com>
Subject: Happy Holiday
Date: Dec 25, 2011
Merry Christmas and a Prosperous New Year to all! Thomas Shpakow ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 26, 2011
From: Bill Christie <billc3(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/23/11
Please cancel all my subscriptions ---- RV-List Digest Server wrote: * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete RV-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the RV-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 11-12-23&Archive=RV Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 11-12-23&Archive=RV =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/23/11: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:24 PM - Re Video cameras (Martin Hone) 2. 06:52 PM - Re: Re Video cameras (Robin Marks) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Subject: RV-List: Re Video cameras From: Martin Hone <aerobiz1(at)gmail.com> I don't know how the Drift HD170 Stealth goes showing an EFIS display, though I will be finding out in a week or so, but for steam gauges it is great. I have mounted it on the wing ( a bit further forward than most so I get the u/c) and used it as a helmet cam. Both work great. And the wireless remote is really useful, as is the ability to rotate the lens. Remember, it only cost $159 Here are a couple of You tube links that will give you an idea, and despite not using it in HD1080 mode, just the regular 720, the pictures are excellent - especially when the camera is played back on the big screen TV ! The only criticism I have at this stage is the funny things it does to the prop. Here is a landing from the wing : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWXHznnvLD4 This using it as a helmetcam, showing panel : : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW6oJgF3I_U FWIW, Martin ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ From: Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: Re Video cameras TWFydGluIHdoYXQgYSBmdW4gYWlycGxhbmUhDQpTdGFuZGFyZCBiYXR0ZXJ5IGxpZmUgb24gdGhl IGRyaWZ0IGlzIG5vdCBncmVhdCBzbyB0aGUgcmVtb3RlIChpZiB3aXRoaW4gcmFuZ2UpIGlzIGEg YmlnIGhlbHAuDQpZZXMgdGhlIG5ldyBwcmljaW5nIG9uIHRoZSBkcmlmdCBtYWtlcyBtZSB3YW50 IHRvIHRha2UgYSBsb29rIGF0IGEgc2Vjb25kIG9uZS4gU29tZXRpbWVzIGl0J3MgbmljZSB0byBo YXZlIG1hdGNoaW5nIHVuaXRzIGZvciBhY2Nlc3NvcmllcyBldGMuIGJ1dCBJIGRpZCB3YW50IHRv IHBsYXkgd2l0aCB0aGUgQ29udG91ciB0b28uDQpGaXJzdCB0aGluZ3MgZmlyc3QsIEhpcy9IZXJz IEdhbGF4eSBOZXh1cyBpcyB1bmRlciB0aGUgdHJlZS4NCg0KUm9iaW4NCg0KRnJvbTogb3duZXIt cnYtbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbSBbbWFpbHRvOm93bmVyLXJ2LWxpc3Qtc2VydmVy QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb21dIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBNYXJ0aW4gSG9uZQ0KU2VudDogRnJpZGF5LCBE ZWNlbWJlciAyMywgMjAxMSAxOjE3IFBNDQpUbzogcnYtbGlzdC1kaWdlc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNv bQ0KU3ViamVjdDogUlYtTGlzdDogUmUgVmlkZW8gY2FtZXJhcw0KDQpJIGRvbid0IGtub3cgaG93 IHRoZSBEcmlmdCBIRDE3MCBTdGVhbHRoIGdvZXMgc2hvd2luZyBhbiBFRklTIGRpc3BsYXksIHRo b3VnaCBJIHdpbGwgYmUgZmluZGluZyBvdXQgaW4gYSB3ZWVrIG9yIHNvLCBidXQgZm9yIHN0ZWFt IGdhdWdlcyBpdCBpcyBncmVhdC4NCkkgaGF2ZSBtb3VudGVkIGl0IG9uIHRoZSB3aW5nICggYSBi aXQgZnVydGhlciBmb3J3YXJkIHRoYW4gbW9zdCBzbyBJIGdldCB0aGUgdS9jKSBhbmQgdXNlZCBp dCBhcyBhIGhlbG1ldCBjYW0uIEJvdGggd29yayBncmVhdC4gIEFuZCB0aGUgd2lyZWxlc3MgcmVt b3RlIGlzIHJlYWxseSB1c2VmdWwsIGFzIGlzIHRoZSBhYmlsaXR5IHRvIHJvdGF0ZSB0aGUgbGVu cy4gIFJlbWVtYmVyLCBpdCBvbmx5IGNvc3QgJDE1OQ0KDQpIZXJlIGFyZSBhIGNvdXBsZSBvZiBZ b3UgdHViZSBsaW5rcyB0aGF0IHdpbGwgZ2l2ZSB5b3UgYW4gaWRlYSwgYW5kIGRlc3BpdGUgbm90 IHVzaW5nIGl0IGluIEhEMTA4MCBtb2RlLCBqdXN0IHRoZSByZWd1bGFyIDcyMCwgdGhlIHBpY3R1 cmVzIGFyZSBleGNlbGxlbnQgLSBlc3BlY2lhbGx5IHdoZW4gdGhlIGNhbWVyYSBpcyBwbGF5ZWQg YmFjayBvbiB0aGUgYmlnIHNjcmVlbiBUViAhICBUaGUgb25seSBjcml0aWNpc20gSSBoYXZlIGF0 IHRoaXMgc3RhZ2UgaXMgdGhlIGZ1bm55IHRoaW5ncyBpdCBkb2VzIHRvIHRoZSBwcm9wLg0KDQpI ZXJlIGlzIGEgbGFuZGluZyBmcm9tIHRoZSB3aW5nIDogaHR0cDovL3d3dy55b3V0dWJlLmNvbS93 YXRjaD92PWRXWEh6bm52TEQ0DQoNClRoaXMgdXNpbmcgaXQgYXMgYSBoZWxtZXRjYW0sIHNob3dp bmcgcGFuZWwgOiA6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cueW91dHViZS5jb20vd2F0Y2g/dj11VzZvSmdGM0lfVQ0K DQpGV0lXLA0KDQpNYXJ0aW4NCg0KDQoNCg0KDQpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KDQpfLT0NCg0KXy09ICAgICAgIC0t IFBsZWFzZSBTdXBwb3J0IFlvdXIgTGlzdHMgVGhpcyBNb250aCAtLQ0KDQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAg IChBbmQgR2V0IFNvbWUgQVdFU09NRSBGUkVFIEdpZnRzISkNCg0KXy09DQoNCl8tPSAgIE5vdmVt YmVyIGlzIHRoZSBBbm51YWwgTGlzdCBGdW5kIFJhaXNlci4gIENsaWNrIG9uDQoNCl8tPSAgIHRo ZSBDb250cmlidXRpb24gbGluayBiZWxvdyB0byBmaW5kIG91dCBtb3JlIGFib3V0DQoNCl8tPSAg IHRoaXMgeWVhcidzIFRlcnJpZmljIEZyZWUgSW5jZW50aXZlIEdpZnRzIHByb3ZpZGVkDQoNCl8t PSAgIGJ5Og0KDQpfLT0NCg0KXy09ICAgICAqIEFlcm9FbGVjdHJpYyB3d3cuYWVyb2VsZWN0cmlj LmNvbTxodHRwOi8vd3d3LmFlcm9lbGVjdHJpYy5jb20+DQoNCl8tPSAgICAgKiBUaGUgQnVpbGRl cidzIEJvb2tzdG9yZSB3d3cuYnVpbGRlcnNib29rcy5jb208aHR0cDovL3d3dy5idWlsZGVyc2Jv b2tzLmNvbT4NCg0KXy09ICAgICAqIEhvbWVidWlsdEhFTFAgd3d3LmhvbWVidWlsdGhlbHAuY29t PGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaG9tZWJ1aWx0aGVscC5jb20+DQoNCl8tPQ0KDQpfLT0gICBMaXN0IENvbnRy aWJ1dGlvbiBXZWIgU2l0ZToNCg0KXy09DQoNCl8tPSAgIC0tPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmlj cy5jb20vY29udHJpYnV0aW9uDQoNCl8tPQ0KDQpfLT0gICBUaGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHlvdXIgZ2Vu ZXJvdXMgc3VwcG9ydCENCg0KXy09DQoNCl8tPSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg IC1NYXR0IERyYWxsZSwgTGlzdCBBZG1pbi4NCg0KXy09DQoNCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQoNCl8tPSAgICAgICAg ICAtIFRoZSBSVi1MaXN0IEVtYWlsIEZvcnVtIC0NCg0KXy09IFVzZSB0aGUgTWF0cm9uaWNzIExp c3QgRmVhdHVyZXMgTmF2aWdhdG9yIHRvIGJyb3dzZQ0KDQpfLT0gdGhlIG1hbnkgTGlzdCB1dGls aXRpZXMgc3VjaCBhcyBMaXN0IFVuL1N1YnNjcmlwdGlvbiwNCg0KXy09IEFyY2hpdmUgU2VhcmNo ICYgRG93bmxvYWQsIDctRGF5IEJyb3dzZSwgQ2hhdCwgRkFRLA0KDQpfLT0gUGhvdG9zaGFyZSwg YW5kIG11Y2ggbXVjaCBtb3JlOg0KDQpfLT0NCg0KXy09ICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9u aWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpZ2F0b3I/UlYtTGlzdA0KDQpfLT0NCg0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCg0KXy09ICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgLSBNQVRST05JQ1MgV0VCIEZPUlVNUyAtDQoNCl8tPSBTYW1lIGdyZWF0IGNvbnRlbnQg YWxzbyBhdmFpbGFibGUgdmlhIHRoZSBXZWIgRm9ydW1zIQ0KDQpfLT0NCg0KXy09ICAgLS0+IGh0 dHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KDQpfLT0NCg0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCg0KXy09ICAgICAgICAg ICAgIC0gTGlzdCBDb250cmlidXRpb24gV2ViIFNpdGUgLQ0KDQpfLT0gIFRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3Ig eW91ciBnZW5lcm91cyBzdXBwb3J0IQ0KDQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAtTWF0dCBEcmFsbGUsIExpc3QgQWRtaW4uDQoNCl8tPSAgIC0tPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJv bmljcy5jb20vY29udHJpYnV0aW9uDQoNCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQoNCg0K ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 26, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
Dear Listers, I've been flying the new 10" Dynon Skyview in the RV-6 for a few weeks now and it seems like the airspeed is reading maybe 10mph fast. The GS always reads 10mph or more slower than the True airspeed, no matter which way I fly with respect to the current wind. Looking through the configuration options on the Skyview, I'm not seeing parameters to calibrate the airspeed. If the airspeed were *slow* compared to the GS, I could envision making adjustments to the Pitot tube to get it in better alignment with slipstream. But *fast* is a head scratcher. If there's no electronic configuration parameters to adjust, what do you do? Are there Pitot line "attenuators" like for RF in coax? ;-) Matt - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log Status: 42+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 26, 2011
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
On the static port, it is critical that there be a lip. Whether you used Van's pop-rivet port or a machined static port, it must not be flush with the aircraft skin. It needs to stick out about 1/16". On 12/26/2011 8:39 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle > > Dear Listers, > > I've been flying the new 10" Dynon Skyview in the RV-6 for a few weeks now and it seems like the airspeed is reading maybe 10mph fast. The GS always reads 10mph or more slower than the True airspeed, no matter which way I fly with respect to the current wind. Looking through the configuration options on the Skyview, I'm not seeing parameters to calibrate the airspeed. If the airspeed were *slow* compared to the GS, I could envision making adjustments to the Pitot tube to get it in better alignment with slipstream. But *fast* is a head scratcher. If there's no electronic configuration parameters to adjust, what do you do? Are there Pitot line "attenuators" like for RF in coax? ;-) > > Matt > > - > Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle > > RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log > http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... > > RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" > http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log > Status: 42+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
Date: Dec 26, 2011
Maybe a static port error? Check out some of Kevin Horton's articles in Kitplanes. Static port errors can, and do, cause "fast" errors. IIRC, Kevin says that pitot alignment does not have to be very precise to be pretty accurate. David Maib Rv-10 40559 Flying. On Dec 26, 2011, at 10:39 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > Dear Listers, > > I've been flying the new 10" Dynon Skyview in the RV-6 for a few > weeks now and it seems like the airspeed is reading maybe 10mph > fast. The GS always reads 10mph or more slower than the True > airspeed, no matter which way I fly with respect to the current > wind. Looking through the configuration options on the Skyview, > I'm not seeing parameters to calibrate the airspeed. If the > airspeed were *slow* compared to the GS, I could envision making > adjustments to the Pitot tube to get it in better alignment with > slipstream. But *fast* is a head scratcher. If there's no > electronic configuration parameters to adjust, what do you do? Are > there Pitot line "attenuators" like for RF in coax? ;-) > > Matt > > - > Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle > > RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log > http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... > > RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" > http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log > Status: 42+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full > Flyer Mode > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 26, 2011
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
I think you're on the right track ..... airspeed is the measurement of the difference in pressure between the pitot and static. So, it appears (to me anyway) that the static pressure is in a lower pressure area than it 'should be'. You should have two static ports, one on each side of the fuselage about 1/2 way between wing trailing edge and horizontal stab leading edge. This should be the area of least disturbed air going by. Having the ports on each side balances the pressures caused by slipping and sliding. The port should stick out a little to get out of the laminar air flow along the fuselage. Since there's no airflow in either the pitot or static lines, a restricter won't have any effect. The angle of the pitot to relative airflow will have some effect on the airspeed reading too. One of our RV-4 pilots (he bought it, not built it) was complaining about inaccurate airspeed and we found the single static port above and forward of the wing leading edge on the left fuselage side. It's a 'washer' about 1" dia and 1/16" thick with a small hole in the center. It's located right where prop wash will really hit it with turbulent air. He plans on moving it and installing two ports as above. Linn On 12/26/2011 10:39 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle > > Dear Listers, > > I've been flying the new 10" Dynon Skyview in the RV-6 for a few weeks now and it seems like the airspeed is reading maybe 10mph fast. The GS always reads 10mph or more slower than the True airspeed, no matter which way I fly with respect to the current wind. Looking through the configuration options on the Skyview, I'm not seeing parameters to calibrate the airspeed. If the airspeed were *slow* compared to the GS, I could envision making adjustments to the Pitot tube to get it in better alignment with slipstream. But *fast* is a head scratcher. If there's no electronic configuration parameters to adjust, what do you do? Are there Pitot line "attenuators" like for RF in coax? ;-) > > Matt > > - > Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle > > RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log > http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... > > RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" > http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log > Status: 42+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 26, 2011
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
From: mr.gsun(at)gmail.com
Is it a true vs indicated issue? Greg On Dec 26, 2011 7:49 PM, "Matt Dralle" wrote: > > Dear Listers, > > I've been flying the new 10" Dynon Skyview in the RV-6 for a few weeks now > and it seems like the airspeed is reading maybe 10mph fast. The GS always > reads 10mph or more slower than the True airspeed, no matter which way I > fly with respect to the current wind. Looking through the configuration > options on the Skyview, I'm not seeing parameters to calibrate the > airspeed. If the airspeed were *slow* compared to the GS, I could envision > making adjustments to the Pitot tube to get it in better alignment with > slipstream. But *fast* is a head scratcher. If there's no electronic > configuration parameters to adjust, what do you do? Are there Pitot line > "attenuators" like for RF in coax? ;-) > > Matt > > - > Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle > > RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log > http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... > > RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" > http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log > Status: 42+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer > Mode > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
Date: Dec 27, 2011
A few of thoughts. 1. It is an easy set up to verify IAS reads properly. Attached photos are the rig I used. I also attached the scale to translate inches to knots. There are various placed to find the test rig on the web. You need not take the airspeed indicator out of the plane, just attached the tube to the pitot and seal with electrical tape. In the attached rig photo, the pressure source attaches to the tube that is hanging free on the left. I found an old blood pressure bulb for this. 2. For my 8A, I initially used a pitot tube that included the static port. It word well except for high pitch angles. At high angles the static port started to get ram air. The result was I could have "0" IAS in power on stalls but still be flying. 3. When I took the plane down for paint, I installed two of the Cleveland tool static ports in the standard fuselage locations. These are flush ports. I found this induced a static error. I did a simple fix by drilling a 1/16 inch hole in the center of a 3/16 round head rivet, cut the rivet head off and then epoxied the rivet head over the static port. I used a toothpick to hold the rivet head in place while the epoxy set, and to keep the epoxy out the hole. This fix solved the static problem. Photo attached. 4. On the RV-10, I used the same rivet but did not use the Cleveland ports. I drilled the 1/16" hole all the way thought the head and rivet shank. I epoxied the rivet to the fuselage, adding a 1/8" thick, 1/2" diameter aluminum ring (3/16 hole drilled in the middle) backer to the inside of the fuselage to add strength. The static line then gets epoxied over the rivet shank. Once you verify the IAS is correct, but you still have a problem with TAS reading high, recommend you talk a look at where you mounted the Dynon OAT probe. If you have it in a place that is typically hotter than outside or getting a lot of prop wash (increases temperature), TAS will read high. Carl -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 11:01 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... I think you're on the right track ..... airspeed is the measurement of the difference in pressure between the pitot and static. So, it appears (to me anyway) that the static pressure is in a lower pressure area than it 'should be'. You should have two static ports, one on each side of the fuselage about 1/2 way between wing trailing edge and horizontal stab leading edge. This should be the area of least disturbed air going by. Having the ports on each side balances the pressures caused by slipping and sliding. The port should stick out a little to get out of the laminar air flow along the fuselage. Since there's no airflow in either the pitot or static lines, a restricter won't have any effect. The angle of the pitot to relative airflow will have some effect on the airspeed reading too. One of our RV-4 pilots (he bought it, not built it) was complaining about inaccurate airspeed and we found the single static port above and forward of the wing leading edge on the left fuselage side. It's a 'washer' about 1" dia and 1/16" thick with a small hole in the center. It's located right where prop wash will really hit it with turbulent air. He plans on moving it and installing two ports as above. Linn On 12/26/2011 10:39 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle > > Dear Listers, > > I've been flying the new 10" Dynon Skyview in the RV-6 for a few weeks now and it seems like the airspeed is reading maybe 10mph fast. The GS always reads 10mph or more slower than the True airspeed, no matter which way I fly with respect to the current wind. Looking through the configuration options on the Skyview, I'm not seeing parameters to calibrate the airspeed. If the airspeed were *slow* compared to the GS, I could envision making adjustments to the Pitot tube to get it in better alignment with slipstream. But *fast* is a head scratcher. If there's no electronic configuration parameters to adjust, what do you do? Are there Pitot line "attenuators" like for RF in coax? ;-) > > Matt > > - > Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle > > RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log > http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... > > RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" > http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log > Status: 42+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
From: Jim Ayers <lessdragprod(at)aol.com>
Date: Dec 27, 2011
An easy way to check the static side of the airspeed indicator is to use yo ur altimeter. I flew along a ridge line at cruise speed that has a 2200 feet peak as show n on my sectional. I may not have been exactly at the same level. Could have been 10 or 20 fe et off in hieght. My altimeter read 2,210 feet. So, at that time, my static system was pretty close. Jim Ayers Less Drag Special sn 1 (Modified HR2) -----Original Message----- From: David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com> Sent: Mon, Dec 26, 2011 8:03 pm Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... Maybe a static port error? Check out some of Kevin Horton's articles n Kitplanes. Static port errors can, and do, cause "fast" errors. IRC, Kevin says that pitot alignment does not have to be very recise to be pretty accurate. David Maib v-10 40559 lying. n Dec 26, 2011, at 10:39 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: Dear Listers, I've been flying the new 10" Dynon Skyview in the RV-6 for a few weeks now and it seems like the airspeed is reading maybe 10mph fast. The GS always reads 10mph or more slower than the True airspeed, no matter which way I fly with respect to the current wind. Looking through the configuration options on the Skyview, I'm not seeing parameters to calibrate the airspeed. If the airspeed were *slow* compared to the GS, I could envision making adjustments to the Pitot tube to get it in better alignment with slipstream. But *fast* is a head scratcher. If there's no electronic configuration parameters to adjust, what do you do? Are there Pitot line "attenuators" like for RF in coax? ;-) Matt - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log Status: 42+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode -======================== - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== -= - The RV-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Date: Dec 27, 2011
Checking altimeter accuracy against tops of ridge lines only works if the temperature is close to standard temperature. If the temperature differs from standard, the error is about 4 ft per 1000 ft per degree C of difference from standard temperature. E.g., if the top of the ridge line is 2000 ft above the airport where the altimeter setting came from, and the temperature is 15 deg C warmer than standard temperature, the altimeter will read about 4/1000 * 2000 * 15 = 120 ft lower than the actual altitude. See: http://bathursted.ccnb.nb.ca/vatcan/fir/moncton/WeeklyTopics/Archives/20040104/CurrentTopic.html http://44rf.com/misc/USAF_AIS_Cold_WX_Altimeter.ppt Kevin Horton On 2011-12-27, at 12:44 , Jim Ayers wrote: > An easy way to check the static side of the airspeed indicator is to use your altimeter. > > I flew along a ridge line at cruise speed that has a 2200 feet peak as shown on my sectional. > > I may not have been exactly at the same level. Could have been 10 or 20 feet off in hieght. My altimeter read 2,210 feet. > So, at that time, my static system was pretty close. > > Jim Ayers > Less Drag Special sn 1 (Modified HR2) > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com> > To: rv-list > Sent: Mon, Dec 26, 2011 8:03 pm > Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... > > > > > Maybe a static port error? Check out some of Kevin Horton's articles > in Kitplanes. Static port errors can, and do, cause "fast" errors. > IIRC, Kevin says that pitot alignment does not have to be very > precise to be pretty accurate. > > David Maib > Rv-10 40559 > Flying. > On Dec 26, 2011, at 10:39 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > dralle(at)matronics.com > > > > > > Dear Listers, > > > > I've been flying the new 10" Dynon Skyview in the RV-6 for a few > > weeks now and it seems like the airspeed is reading maybe 10mph > > fast. The GS always reads 10mph or more slower than the True > > airspeed, no matter which way I fly with respect to the current > > wind. Looking through the configuration options on the Skyview, > > I'm not seeing parameters to calibrate the airspeed. If the > > airspeed were *slow* compared to the GS, I could envision making > > adjustments to the Pitot tube to get it in better alignment with > > slipstream. But *fast* is a head scratcher. If there's no > > electronic configuration parameters to adjust, what do you do? Are > > there Pitot line "attenuators" like for RF in coax? ;-) > > > > Matt > > > > - > > Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle > > > > RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" > > > http://www.mattsrv8.com > - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log > > > http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap > - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log > > > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 > - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > > Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... > > > > RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" > > > http://www.mattsrv6.com > - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log > > Status: 42+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full > > Flyer Mode > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill Judge <bjudge(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 27, 2011
Subject: Fwd: RAF Call To Action
Greetings, I got a note from the Recreational Aviation Foundation today(RAF) asking for people to write letters to the Bureau of Land Management(BLM) Field office in Silt, Colorado. The field office is working through their process of making a new "resource management plan"(RMP) the current draft is agnostic to aviation and several airstrips could be closed. Ideally the RAF would like to get language added to the RMP that is positive toward airstrips on a no cost to the tax payer basis. The RAF was able to get "Chicken Strip" reopened this year and has been able to make significant progress in getting policy changed toward aviation on public land. Translated that means the RAF has been working to preserve and expand the number if places we get to visit with our magic carpets. I've drafted a letter which I whole heartedly encourage you to plagiarize it with your own writer's embellishments. Here is a link to it. Thanks, Bill Judge N84WJ, RV-8, 690 hrs rv-8.blogspot.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Recreational Aviation Foundation <contact(at)theraf.org> Date: Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 12:34 AM Subject: RAF Call To Action Dear William, *Colorado **airstrips could go away!* Now is your chance to help the cause and be an active part of the Recreational Aviaiton Foundation (RAF). It will only take a few minutes of your time and a postage stamp. The Colorado River Valley field office of the Bureau of Land Management recently released a draft Resource Management Plan (RMP) for the Colorado River Valley. It covers BLM holdings from Rifle to Vail in the northwest part of the state. RAF supporter Hap Pool of Vail, CO, just happened to see the draft plan notice and request for public comment. He immediately met with BLM staff in Silt, CO, and provided them the RAF produced =93Reference Guide for Public Land Managers=94. The draft RMP makes no reference to the airstrips located on BLM land within the planning area. The BLM told Hap that they had no idea that recreational aviation even existed. This planning process began in 2008 with scoping meetings, but pilots in the area did not know about it due to lack of BLM notification to the aviation community. Now the only option to gain aviation input into the planning process is to suggest specific language that addresses aviation issues. The RAF and the Colorado Pilots Association (CPA) drafted wording changes and each organization will submit comments to the BLM. The RAF comments comprise eight pages of background information and detailed wording changes to the draft RMP. *Here=92s what can you do to preserve the Colorado airstrips!* Please write a brief letter supporting the RAF and CPA input to the draft RMP. Written letters (even postcards) demonstrate to the BLM that recreational aviation is alive and well, it has a national interest in the outcome of the final RMP and aviation should be considered in a positive manner in any RMP. It does not matter where you live, the BLM should hear from you to demonstrate the concern of pilots nationwide. Send your comments to: *BLM CO Colorado River Valley Field Office * *2300 River Frontage Road* *Silt**, CO 81652* *Letter writing Guidelines:*You don=92t have to live in Colorado to submit a letter. The BLM needs to know that these airstrips are of national importance. 1) Identify your subject (=93CRV draft RMP comments=94). The staff wil l then file your letter properly. 2) Identify yourself as a pilot and you want these comments filed under the topic of recreational aviation. Stress that you support the RMP language as submitted by the Recreational Aviation Foundation. 3) Write the letter in your own words, in your own writing style. Stick to a few basic bulleted points. 4) Be specific. Tell the BLM to include recreational aviation and airstrips within the final CRV RMP even though there was an inadvertent omission of airstrips in the draft RMP. Specifically mention the Roan Cliffs and Tepee Creek airstrips. 5) Cite personal experiences. Have you ever needed to land at a backcountry airstrip due to weather changes or mechanical problems? Have you flown a young or elderly or disabled person to a backcountry airstrip so that person could have a unique experience? 6) What do you like to do with your family? Airplane camp, hike, etc. If you have a photo of your family camped with your airplane at a public lands airstrip, include that. 7) Do you currently volunteer for backcountry airstrip maintenance work? If so, mention your commitment to participate in cooperative airstrip maintenance between the users and the Federal Land managers. 8) Above all, be polite. Public land managers are people, too, and deserve respectful treatment. 9) Be sure your address appears either at the top of the letter or below your signature. Ask to be placed on future mailing lists. Include your phone number. The number of comments received by the BLM is as important as the quality. Encourage your family and friends to write a short note why they want the opportunity to fly to a recreational destination and enjoy the same experience that others enjoy, but using a different mode of transportation. *The deadline for comments is January 17, 2012*. Do not wait until the last minute. For questions, contact RAF BOD member Chuck Jarecki at: cjarecki(at)theraf.org or phone 406-883-2248. Let's show that the aviation community all across America is interested in this plan by overwhelming the BLM with positvie aviation comments. *Recreational Aviation Foundation* 1711 West College Street Bozeman, MT 59715-4913 United States 406-582-1RAF (406-582-1723) theraf.org<http://theraf.org/sites/all/modules/civicrm/extern/url.php?u=2 93&qid=66623> Join Team RAF! RAF Mission: =93Keeping the legacy of recreational aviation strong by preserving, maintaining and creating public use recreational and backcountry airstrips nationwide=94 ------------------------------ Click here to unsubscribe from RAF Emails<http://theraf.org/index.php?q=civicrm/mailing/optout&reset=1&jid =427&qid=66623&h=f38de675bae6b93b> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 27, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
At 07:39 PM 12/26/2011 Monday, Matt Dralle wrote: >Dear Listers, > >I've been flying the new 10" Dynon Skyview in the RV-6 for a few weeks now and it seems like the airspeed is reading maybe 10mph fast. The GS always reads 10mph or more slower than the True airspeed, no matter which way I fly with respect to the current wind. Looking through the configuration options on the Skyview, I'm not seeing parameters to calibrate the airspeed. If the airspeed were *slow* compared to the GS, I could envision making adjustments to the Pitot tube to get it in better alignment with slipstream. But *fast* is a head scratcher. If there's no electronic configuration parameters to adjust, what do you do? Are there Pitot line "attenuators" like for RF in coax? ;-) > >Matt Listers, Thank you for all the great suggestions on resolving this airspeed issue! I took a look at the static ports on the RV-6 today and found that they are done using a flush head screw with a hole drilled in the center on either side of the fuselage. They do *not* protrude from the side of the plane at all. They are totally flush (see attached picture). Just for fun, I whipped up a couple of quick test deals using a 3/16" washer and some electrical tape. I poked a 1/16" hole in the center of the tape and then put the washer centered over the static ports on both sides of the fuselage (see attached pictures). Then, I went flying on this beautiful December 27 day in California! I didn't have time to do any real scientific multi-leg testing, but I was amazed that the True Airspeed is now falling in a much more believable range compared to the GPS-derived ground speed. On one cross-country leg, I had an exactly 90 degree crosswind component and the True Airspeed and GPS Ground Speed were tracking exactly the same. Yahoo! Obviously I need to do some additional, more scientific measurements and probably come up with a slightly more "permanent" washer arrangement, but the early returns are very promising! :-) Thanks again for all the great feedback! Matt - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log Status: 42+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 27, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Dynon Skyview vs. GRT HX EFIS...
>At 09:47 PM 12/27/2011 Tuesday, you wrote: >I have looked at the Dynon stuff up at Arlington Air Show the past two years >and really like the looks of them. They added autopilot and said last year >that they were about to announce communications added to their system. A >single 10" screen to do everything would be pretty easy to install learn to >operate. Mostly Dynon looks best in the magazines. I guess you get used to >any of them or they would not all still be in business. >Pete I have a Dynon 10" Skyview in the RV-6: http://www.mattsrv6.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV6&project 43&category=0&log=138164&row=45 http://www.mattsrv6.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV6&project 43&category=0&log=138163&row=46 and a triple GRT HX setup in the RV-8: http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV8&project=638&category=2973&log'376&row=134 http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV8&project=638&category=2973&log'375&row=135 I've flown the GRT HX setup about 170 hours and the Dynon Skyview system about 45 hours now. Which do I prefer? That's a tough call. There are parts about each system that I like a lot... The installation and configuration of the Dynon is easier. Instructions are also better. The network cable interconnect system that Dynon uses (I think it is just RS485, but it works well) is also a no-brainer to install. Their display (PFD/Engine/Map) are definitely very pretty and demo well. The GRT is a little harder to get installed, the manual is a little sketchy in places and there are a LOT of configuration options that can seem daunting at first. BUT, there is power and utility in those options. If you use them to your advantage, you can probably do more, better on the GRT compared to the Dynon. The displays on the GRT don't have the "3D-y", "Windows-y" look to them. BUT, I think I'm preferring that at this point. Doing a scan on the GRT looking for something out of the ordinary is quicker and more accurate. I also like the PFD layout and operation on the GRT better. It feels more "accurate" and "believable" to me for some reason. I never quite "trust" what I'm seeing on the Dynon for some reason and I don't know why. Maybe I just need more time on the Dynon. So, the Dynon has it for Installation and Configuation, but the GRT has it for Operation and Presentation as far as I'm concerned. If I was building a new plane, I think that I would probably go with the GRT. But its a close race. I really like the Dynon system too. I guess I'm saying if you're in the market for a full-featured EFIS system, give GRT and Dynon both very close look before you make your selection. In my opinion, it comes down to personal preferences in a few select areas on which way to go. Both systems are top notch. BTW, Dynon's autopilot add-on for the Skyview which I have in the RV-6 works well. Its a good autopilot that does the job. The servos are the same as with the TruTrak system. In the RV-8, I have the TruTrak Digiflight II VSGV system. The TruTrak is a smoother, more accurate autopilot in my opinion, and I would go that route again. But, it also costs quite a bit more than just adding servos to the Dynon or GRT. $.02 - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log Status: 42+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Mills" <rvmills(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
Date: Dec 27, 2011
Matt, Been trying to shoot a note out while on the road, with no success. In the meantime, you've gotten some good info, and sounds like you're making progress with testing. Here's what I wrote...just a little more data from the field: As the others said, sounds like a possible static port issue. Also agree it could be OAT, depending on whether the error is there at all speeds or just high speeds. Or it could be a bit of both. On the static port...that rivet fix sounds like a great idea. A buddy did it another way (though I like that rivet idea). My bud used AN-960 washers to build up the lip on the static ports on his F1 Rocket. In his case, he actually cut the washer in half, and glued it around the forward half of his port. He played with thickness until his TAS was very close to his GPS speeds (multi-leg test). You could probably experiment with -6, -8 and -10 washers, thin and thick washers, sanding or grinding the edges down a bit to soften the corner, and full or half washers, to see what gets you the closest. Painting it afterwards could have a slight impact too, so consider that as well. On the OAT, I've found that my TAS error increases the faster I go...typically between 2.5-4 knots high. I did a test once, slowing from 170 to 70 and then accelerating back to 170 (KIAS, level flight). My OAT decreased 5 degrees as I slowed, then increased back to the original temp as I accelerated. So my OAT during max speed tests is inducing an error from Ram Rise (small, but there). Mine is under the H-Stab on the side of the fuse. Another Rocket gent saw the same effect with his OAT probe on the aileron bellcrank inspection panel. He built a bracket and mounted it inside the same panel (left the hole there, just "retracted" the probe inside it, if you will, and found the probe still worked and the Ram Rise error went away. I may try that on my tail-mounted probe as well. Good luck chasing it! Cheers, Bob (Nasty) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 7:39 PM Subject: RV-List: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... Dear Listers, I've been flying the new 10" Dynon Skyview in the RV-6 for a few weeks now and it seems like the airspeed is reading maybe 10mph fast. The GS always reads 10mph or more slower than the True airspeed, no matter which way I fly with respect to the current wind. Looking through the configuration options on the Skyview, I'm not seeing parameters to calibrate the airspeed. If the airspeed were *slow* compared to the GS, I could envision making adjustments to the Pitot tube to get it in better alignment with slipstream. But *fast* is a head scratcher. If there's no electronic configuration parameters to adjust, what do you do? Are there Pitot line "attenuators" like for RF in coax? ;-) Matt - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log Status: 42+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2011
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview vs. GRT HX EFIS...
Slight correction....the Dynon servos are not identical to Tru-trak. They look the same and work with the same mounting brackets, but are electrically different, so not entirely interchangeable. If you have Dynon Skyview you need Dynon servos, if you have Tru-trak AP you need Tru-trak servos. On 12/27/2011 11:26 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > BTW, Dynon's autopilot add-on for the Skyview which I have in the > RV-6 works well. Its a good autopilot that does the job. The servos > are the same as with the TruTrak system. In the RV-8, I have the > TruTrak Digiflight II VSGV system. The TruTrak is a smoother, more > accurate autopilot in my opinion, and I would go that route again. > But, it also costs quite a bit more than just adding servos to the > Dynon or GRT. $.02 - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Where Have the Models Gone?
From: "Jon Ferguson" <jon.m.ferguson(at)uscg.mil>
Date: Dec 28, 2011
http://writingsofjon.blogspot.com/2011/12/aviation-where-have-models-gone.html Enjoy! Jon P.S. The occasional ad click is always greatly appreciated. -------- http://writingsofjon.blogspot.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361858#361858 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
At 07:39 PM 12/26/2011 Monday, you wrote: > >Dear Listers, > >I've been flying the new 10" Dynon Skyview in the RV-6 for a few weeks now and it seems like the airspeed is reading maybe 10mph fast. The GS always reads 10mph or more slower than the True airspeed, no matter which way I fly with respect to the current wind. Looking through the configuration options on the Skyview, I'm not seeing parameters to calibrate the airspeed. If the airspeed were *slow* compared to the GS, I could envision making adjustments to the Pitot tube to get it in better alignment with slipstream. But *fast* is a head scratcher. If there's no electronic configuration parameters to adjust, what do you do? Are there Pitot line "attenuators" like for RF in coax? ;-) > >Matt Listers, I went flying tonight in the RV-6 around sunset and took some airspeed numbers flying the four points of the compass. I let each direction normalize for about 2 minutes before taking the readings. I've still got my little black-tape washer deals on the static ports that I detailed in a previous email. Do these numbers make any sense? Emacs! I set the altimeter to 30.15 (KLVK ATIS). I compared the Dynon altitude with the Garmin 696 GPS altitude. The Dynon was high by 100 ft. I used the Dynon altitude adjustment to set it to match the GPS (-100ft). The readings above were after this adjustment. - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log Status: 48+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
Date: Dec 30, 2011
My ears perk up when I read of people comparing "barometric altitude readings" with "GPS altitude". . . . In winter the atmosphere shrinks and in summer it expands. Worded differently, the "pressure lapse rate" is not standard in hot or cold weather, so your baro altimeter isn't going to accurately show "altitude above MSL". . . . Flying F-100s in the 132nd TFW at Des Moines, Iowa, in the 1970s we used gun camera film extensively to measure our actual dive angles on various dive bomb events (low, medium, and high angle). . . . We modified standard Air Force charts and added horizontal lines to show release altitude. Then we began noticing that we were releasing below preplanned release altitude in winter (bombs hit long) and were releasing higher in summer (bombs hit short of aim point). We worked with Offutt AFB Weather and learned to use a "D Value chart" to plot actual amount of deviation (D value) of a "baro altitude" (pressure level) from where it would be on a standard day (with standard day pressure lapse rate). . . . It will be difficult to give a tutorial via e-mail to properly treat this issue. Perhaps if there were interest, I could add something to a small web page I have. GPS altitude is based on a mathematical model of the theoretical shape of the earth (ellipsoid), which is not a round ball, i.e., the earths radius is larger at the equater than at the poles. . . . I'm not sure but suspect GPS math models use actual "digital terrain database" values to refine the local "ground" elevation (MSL).. Kevin Horton?? Bottom line, be aware that GPS altitude will probably be closer to "real altitude" above Mean Sea Level than "baro altitude" in winter and in summer (i.e., on non-standard days of temperature and pressure lapse rates). You'd have to have a D Value chart and call a local weather station to get data points from their latest weather balloon releases to plot the error between "baro" altitude (what you read with correct local "SURFACE" altimeter setting) and actual (like with a radar altimeter) altitude. David Carter cell 409-718-2268 RV-6A N164RS (great airplane built by Ron Smith of Goodyear, AZ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "M. Marcotte" <m.l.marcotte(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
Date: Dec 30, 2011
I think one can calculate from the GPS numbers that you had a 14 MPH (approx) wind from the WNW and you were doing 182 TAS. Your IAS would appear to be 12 MPH too high. From: Matt Dralle Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 10:33 PM rv7-list(at)matronics.com ; rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV7-List: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... At 07:39 PM 12/26/2011 Monday, you wrote: Dear Listers, I've been flying the new 10" Dynon Skyview in the RV-6 for a few weeks now and it seems like the airspeed is reading maybe 10mph fast. The GS always reads 10mph or more slower than the True airspeed, no matter which way I fly with respect to the current wind. Looking through the configuration options on the Skyview, I'm not seeing parameters to calibrate the airspeed. If the airspeed were *slow* compared to the GS, I could envision making adjustments to the Pitot tube to get it in better alignment with slipstream. But *fast* is a head scratcher. If there's no electronic configuration parameters to adjust, what do you do? Are there Pitot line "attenuators" like for RF in coax? ;-) Matt Listers, I went flying tonight in the RV-6 around sunset and took some airspeed numbers flying the four points of the compass. I let each direction normalize for about 2 minutes before taking the readings. I've still got my little black-tape washer deals on the static ports that I detailed in a previous email. Do these numbers make any sense? I set the altimeter to 30.15 (KLVK ATIS). I compared the Dynon altitude with the Garmin 696 GPS altitude. The Dynon was high by 100 ft. I used the Dynon altitude adjustment to set it to match the GPS (-100ft). The readings above were after this adjustment. - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log Status: 48+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 2011
From: Chris Welsh <chriswelsh(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
Here's a link explaining in more detail what David just pointed out. http://rogallo.co.uk/tutorials:differences-between-pressure-and-gps-altitude -chris ________________________________ From: David Carter <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> Sent: Fri, December 30, 2011 11:07:19 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... My ears perk up when I read of people comparing "barometric altitude readings" with "GPS altitude". . . . In winter the atmosphere shrinks and in summer it expands. Worded differently, the "pressure lapse rate" is not standard in hot or cold weather, so your baro altimeter isn't going to accurately show "altitude above MSL". . . . Flying F-100s in the 132nd TFW at Des Moines, Iowa, in the 1970s we used gun camera film extensively to measure our actual dive angles on various dive bomb events (low, medium, and high angle). . . . We modified standard Air Force charts and added horizontal lines to show release altitude. Then we began noticing that we were releasing below preplanned release altitude in winter (bombs hit long) and were releasing higher in summer (bombs hit short of aim point). We worked with Offutt AFB Weather and learned to use a "D Value chart" to plot actual amount of deviation (D value) of a "baro altitude" (pressure level) from where it would be on a standard day (with standard day pressure lapse rate). . . . It will be difficult to give a tutorial via e-mail to properly treat this issue. Perhaps if there were interest, I could add something to a small web page I have. GPS altitude is based on a mathematical model of the theoretical shape of the earth (ellipsoid), which is not a round ball, i.e., the earths radius is larger at the equater than at the poles. . . . I'm not sure but suspect GPS math models use actual "digital terrain database" values to refine the local "ground" elevation (MSL).. Kevin Horton?? Bottom line, be aware that GPS altitude will probably be closer to "real altitude" above Mean Sea Level than "baro altitude" in winter and in summer (i.e., on non-standard days of temperature and pressure lapse rates). You'd have to have a D Value chart and call a local weather station to get data points from their latest weather balloon releases to plot the error between "baro" altitude (what you read with correct local "SURFACE" altimeter setting) and actual (like with a radar altimeter) altitude. David Carter cell 409-718-2268 RV-6A N164RS (great airplane built by Ron Smith of Goodyear, AZ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Where Have the Models Gone?
From: "Jon Ferguson" <jon.m.ferguson(at)uscg.mil>
Date: Dec 31, 2011
http://writingsofjon.blogspot.com/2011/12/aviation-netflix-for-pilots.html Another installment you might like! P.S. The occasional ad click is greatly appreciated. -------- http://writingsofjon.blogspot.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362114#362114 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Speaking of Dynon Skyview...
>At 09:17 PM 12/30/2011 Friday, you wrote: >Got the VP-200 for safety reasons and pre-VPX era. You may not need it, and that will free up that space for a IFR screen, if you wish. I will say that the safety features that the VP uses for mode switches and engine alarms is great! > >Pascal Listers, I would also highly recommend the Vertical Power VP-200. I wouldn't fly an Experimental without one. Look how clean Pacscal's panel is without all those switches and circuit breakers! Nice. Push that Green button once when you get in, and from then on the VP-200 takes care of turning On and Off all the various circuits depending on the automatically detected Mode of flight. Startup, Taxi, Runup, Takeoff, Cruise, Landing, etc. Its pretty darn cool. I've got 172 hours on the RV-8 and 48 hours on the RV-6 both with VP-200 systems and have found it to work flawlessly. If you're on the fence about buying one, don't be. You'll love it. Best money I've spent on both RVs, hands down. See attached pictures of my VP-200 from both the RV-8 and RV-6. The RV-8 has dual alternators for redundancy and this is supported by the VP-200 and shown as the "Pri Alt" and "Sec Alt" on the main display. Pascal, you should contact Vertical power and get the latest software update for the VP-200 (from early December 2011). It now supports full EMS data link from the Dynon Skyview so all of the Mode selection is fully automatic. You also get some of the primary engine instrument display on the VP-200 screen as well as a myriad of visual and audible engine annunciators. Works great. - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log Status: 48+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ralph Finch <ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 31, 2011
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Speaking of Dynon Skyview...
Matt, what do you think about the VP-X? It's a lot cheaper but doesn't have the flight modes or extra display and thus requires all the switches still (just no circuit breakers). Ralph Finch Davis Listers, > > I would also highly recommend the Vertical Power VP-200. I wouldn't fly > an Experimental without one. Look how clean Pacscal's panel is without all > those switches and circuit breakers! Nice. Push that Green button once > when you get in, and from then on the VP-200 takes care of turning On and > Off all the various circuits depending on the automatically detected Mode > of flight. Startup, Taxi, Runup, Takeoff, Cruise, Landing, etc. Its > pretty darn cool. I've got 172 hours on the RV-8 and 48 hours on the RV-6 > both with VP-200 systems and have found it to work flawlessly. If you're > on the fence about buying one, don't be. You'll love it. Best money I've > spent on both RVs, hands down. See attached pictures of my VP-200 from > both the RV-8 and RV-6. The RV-8 has dual alternators for redundancy and > this is supported by the VP-200 and shown as the "Pri Alt" and "Sec Alt" on > the main display. > > Pascal, you should contact Vertical power and get the latest software > update for the VP-200 (from early December 2011). It now supports full EMS > data link from the Dynon Skyview so all of the Mode selection is fully > automatic. You also get some of the primary engine instrument display on > the VP-200 screen as well as a myriad of visual and audible engine > annunciators. Works great. > > > - > Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle > > RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log > http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... > > RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" > http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log > Status: 48+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer > Mode > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Speaking of Dynon Skyview...
Date: Dec 31, 2011
Matt; You are right on! I pressed Robert at Dynon and Marc at every flyin to get the implementation of the software. Because of this I have been fortunate to get a early view of it. It's remains BETA as far as I can tell . Data logging, not in the Skyview yet, has worked fantastically for me with LOP ops; mode switching? well, my wife wanted safety, doesn't get more safe than having that "co-pilot" control each and every step for me. The fly off has been so much easier with the VP-200, as I set what I want it to do at each mode on the ground and it gets completed in the air so I dont need to think about it. I also like the fact that my checklist is on the screen, so no pulling out the paper list while flying, (ie- "runup mode" kicks in at 1700rpm and mag check shows difference and results of check; "landing mode" determined by engine information and checklist comes on, I use a button on my stick to acknowledge the step and if I get distracted, well, I know where I left off as it is still highlighted, so I can move on without missing a step- happens when I use my paper checklist.The warnings for the engine info are also a great safety item (not in the skyview yet either) when CHT's and EGT exceed my POH numbers. Lets me focus on flying and not staring at my higher EGTs as I go lower without thinking about the Mixture- good reminder that I need to check something. It has not happened but if it ever did.. I have it now with a female voice telling me "CHECK EGT.. CHECK EGT". It's a expensive investment, but it's a investment I never regretted, especially now that it is doing everything I heard it could do. Dynon and Vertical Power really are customer focused companies. I wish Dynon would move their capabilities for the Skyview along, and in time I believe they will have the audio alarms and data logging, they have the VP-X integration (extra charge applies) which removes the switches and gives that extra space on the panel, but they will never have the mode changes seen in the VP-200. There really is so much the VP-200 does for safety (keyless start, emergency procedures, electrical triage when battery charge is decreasing (aka alternator failure)etc) that it would take me a while to cover. If anyone is wondering what it looks like- check out their Take a flight demo http://www.verticalpower.com/Take-a-Flight/ and their page. http://www.verticalpower.com/VP200.html This forum is to help others.. I preach Desser/Cee baileys because for custom fit windows they are the best way to go, versus having to do all the fitting one self and at the same price as Vans sells the pieces.. I gain nothing with this company nor with telling you my experience with VP-200 other than giving my feedback. Hope it helps someone. Pascal -----Original Message----- From: Matt Dralle Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 10:32 AM ; rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Speaking of Dynon Skyview... >At 09:17 PM 12/30/2011 Friday, you wrote: >Got the VP-200 for safety reasons and pre-VPX era. You may not need it, and >that will free up that space for a IFR screen, if you wish. I will say that >the safety features that the VP uses for mode switches and engine alarms >is great! > >Pascal Listers, I would also highly recommend the Vertical Power VP-200. I wouldn't fly an Experimental without one. Look how clean Pacscal's panel is without all those switches and circuit breakers! Nice. Push that Green button once when you get in, and from then on the VP-200 takes care of turning On and Off all the various circuits depending on the automatically detected Mode of flight. Startup, Taxi, Runup, Takeoff, Cruise, Landing, etc. Its pretty darn cool. I've got 172 hours on the RV-8 and 48 hours on the RV-6 both with VP-200 systems and have found it to work flawlessly. If you're on the fence about buying one, don't be. You'll love it. Best money I've spent on both RVs, hands down. See attached pictures of my VP-200 from both the RV-8 and RV-6. The RV-8 has dual alternators for redundancy and this is supported by the VP-200 and shown as the "Pri Alt" and "Sec Alt" on the main display. Pascal, you should contact Vertical power and get the latest software update for the VP-200 (from early December 2011). It now supports full EMS data link from the Dynon Skyview so all of the Mode selection is fully automatic. You also get some of the primary engine instrument display on the VP-200 screen as well as a myriad of visual and audible engine annunciators. Works great. - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log Status: 48+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Speaking of Vertical Power VP-200 and VP-X...
At 12:48 PM 12/31/2011 Saturday, Ralph Finch wrote: >Matt, what do you think about the VP-X? It's a lot cheaper but doesn't have the flight modes or extra display and thus requires all the switches still (just no circuit breakers). > >Ralph Finch >Davis The Vertical Power VP-X is definitely a step in the right direction for your typical Experimental aircraft electrical system. It also allows you to use standard small signal switches for even the largest of current circuits which saves space, weight, and money. If the VP-200 didn't exist, there is no question that I would use the VP-X for my Experimental nerve center. That being said, the VP-200 adds *so* much more functionality over the VP-X, I would always recommend it first. The VP-200 truly infuses 21st century technology with our Experimental aircraft. Given the quality and functionality it brings to the table, it is exceptionally well priced. If I were on a tight budget, I would forgo a second GPS, Comm, or EFIS display before I would sacrifice the functionality provided by the VP-200. The VP-200 rates a 5 out of 5 in my opinion. ( BTW, I don't get a kick back from Vertical Power; I'm just a very happy, satisfied and *repeat* customer. :-) ) - Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log Status: 48+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
From: "Bubblehead" <jdalmansr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 02, 2012
One big question: Does changing the geometry of the static port change indicated altitude when flying? It seems like if we change the static pressure by applying washers or lips we would change indicated altitude along with IAS. -------- John Keller, TX RV-8 N247TD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362222#362222 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2012
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
On 1/2/2012 9:07 AM, Bubblehead wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bubblehead" > > One big question: > > Does changing the geometry of the static port change indicated altitude when flying? Yes, it surely could. If the static system isn't truly 'neutral' ..... no pressure or suction on it .... it really messes things up. > It seems like if we change the static pressure by applying washers or lips we would change indicated altitude along with IAS. The reason for the 'washer' or 'rivet head' (whatever you use) is to get the port out of the laminar flow down the fuselage into undisturbed (relatively) air. That makes location pretty important. It also means that port location/thickness/shape/ ....... is the ONLY thing you can change to fix airspeed/altitude errors in flight AFAIK. It also means you need two ports, one on each side to cancel induced errors due to uncoordinated flight. Linn. > > -------- > John > Keller, TX > RV-8 N247TD > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362222#362222 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
From: Jim Ayers <lessdragprod(at)aol.com>
Date: Jan 02, 2012
Do you have a test method that we can all use to calibrate the alimeter at cruise speed? The altimeter only has the static system for its input. Calibrating the static vents in cruise conditions for the altimeter could p rovide a correction for airspeed readout errors. Correcting airspeed readouts errors by changing the static vent geometery l eaves your altitude readings at cruise speeds as a total unknown. Jim Ayers -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> Sent: Tue, Dec 27, 2011 11:50 am Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... Checking altimeter accuracy against tops of ridge lines only works if the emperature is close to standard temperature. If the temperature differs from standard, the error is about 4 ft per 1000 ft er degree C of difference from standard temperature. E.g., if the top of t he idge line is 2000 ft above the airport where the altimeter setting came fro m, nd the temperature is 15 deg C warmer than standard temperature, the altime ter ill read about 4/1000 * 2000 * 15 = 120 ft lower than the actual altitude . See: http://bathursted.ccnb.nb.ca/vatcan/fir/moncton/WeeklyTopics/Archives/20040 104/CurrentTopic.html ttp://44rf.com/misc/USAF_AIS_Cold_WX_Altimeter.ppt Kevin Horton On 2011-12-27, at 12:44 , Jim Ayers wrote: > An easy way to check the static side of the airspeed indicator is to use your ltimeter. I flew along a ridge line at cruise speed that has a 2200 feet peak as sho wn n my sectional. I may not have been exactly at the same level. Could have been 10 or 20 f eet ff in hieght. My altimeter read 2,210 feet. So, at that time, my static system was pretty close. Jim Ayers Less Drag Special sn 1 (Modified HR2) -----Original Message----- From: David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com> To: rv-list Sent: Mon, Dec 26, 2011 8:03 pm Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... > Maybe a static port error? Check out some of Kevin Horton's articles in Kitplanes. Static port errors can, and do, cause "fast" errors. IIRC, Kevin says that pitot alignment does not have to be very precise to be pretty accurate. David Maib Rv-10 40559 Flying. On Dec 26, 2011, at 10:39 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: dralle(at)matronics.com > > > Dear Listers, > > I've been flying the new 10" Dynon Skyview in the RV-6 for a few > weeks now and it seems like the airspeed is reading maybe 10mph > fast. The GS always reads 10mph or more slower than the True > airspeed, no matter which way I fly with respect to the current > wind. Looking through the configuration options on the Skyview, > I'm not seeing parameters to calibrate the airspeed. If the > airspeed were *slow* compared to the GS, I could envision making > adjustments to the Pitot tube to get it in better alignment with > slipstream. But *fast* is a head scratcher. If there's no > electronic configuration parameters to adjust, what do you do? Are > there Pitot line "attenuators" like for RF in coax? ;-) > > Matt > > - > Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle > > RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log > http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... > > RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" > http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log > Status: 42+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full > Flyer Mode > > > > -======================== - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== -= - The RV-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Date: Jan 02, 2012
On 2012-01-02, at 09:07 , Bubblehead wrote: > > One big question: > > Does changing the geometry of the static port change indicated altitude when flying? > > It seems like if we change the static pressure by applying washers or lips we would change indicated altitude along with IAS. > > -------- > John =================== If the original IAS error was due to a poorly located or shaped static port (i.e. static system position error), then the original errors would have affected both IAS and altitude indications. In this case the correct fix is whatever it takes to get the static port to sense a pressure that is as close as possible to true ambient pressure. This will correct both the IAS and altitude indications. If the source of the error is static source position error, then any "fix" that only addressed the IAS (such as the adjustments that some EFIS provide) will only correct the IAS. The indicated altitude will still be wrong, and this error could easily be much more than 100 ft. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Date: Jan 02, 2012
The classical test method that directly compares actual vs indicated altitude is the "tower fly-by". Typically a camera is placed on top of a tower about 100 ft high, with the tower abeam the middle of a long runway. The camera is very accurately aimed, and the geometry of the tower, camera lens, etc is very well known so that the height of the aircraft above the runway can be determined from the images, assuming the aircraft accurately tracks down the runway centreline. The aircraft instrumentation system records the altitude, with a very accurate time stamp. Ground instrumentation records the altitude and OAT at ground level, and the camera images have an accurate time stamp. Post flight analysis is used to determine the actual vs indicated altitude as the aircraft passes by the tower at a range of airspeeds. This is used by some major test centres, but it is not practical for us as it requires too much specialized equipment to achieve reasonable accuracy. The method that is most practical for us is the speed course method (sometimes called ground course method). It assumes that the pitot pressure is accurate, which is a reasonable assumption, and there are no static or pitot leaks, which can be confirmed by ground test. The ASI instrument error must be measured. The TAS is measured using one of several possible methods (GPS data from a four course box pattern is the current best method), and the CAS is back calculated from the TAS, indicated altitude and OAT. The difference between CAS and IAS (corrected for instrument error) must be due to static source position error. More info: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/list/AC%2023-8B/$FILE/Final-Part8.pdf http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/rvlinks/ssec.html Kevin Horton On 2012-01-02, at 10:35 , Jim Ayers wrote: > Do you have a test method that we can all use to calibrate the alimeter at cruise speed? > > The altimeter only has the static system for its input. > > Calibrating the static vents in cruise conditions for the altimeter could provide a correction for airspeed readout errors. > > Correcting airspeed readouts errors by changing the static vent geometery leaves your altitude readings at cruise speeds as a total unknown. > > Jim Ayers > -----Original Message----- > From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> > To: rv-list > Sent: Tue, Dec 27, 2011 11:50 am > Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... > > > > > Checking altimeter accuracy against tops of ridge lines only works if the > temperature is close to standard temperature. > > If the temperature differs from standard, the error is about 4 ft per 1000 ft > per degree C of difference from standard temperature. E.g., if the top of the > ridge line is 2000 ft above the airport where the altimeter setting came from, > and the temperature is 15 deg C warmer than standard temperature, the altimeter > will read about 4/1000 * 2000 * 15 = 120 ft lower than the actual altitude. > > See: > > > http://bathursted.ccnb.nb.ca/vatcan/fir/moncton/WeeklyTopics/Archives/20040104/CurrentTopic.html > http://44rf.com/misc/USAF_AIS_Cold_WX_Altimeter.ppt > > > Kevin Horton > > On 2011-12-27, at 12:44 , Jim Ayers wrote: > > > An easy way to check the static side of the airspeed indicator is to use your > altimeter. > > > > I flew along a ridge line at cruise speed that has a 2200 feet peak as shown > on my sectional. > > > > I may not have been exactly at the same level. Could have been 10 or 20 feet > off in hieght. My altimeter read 2,210 feet. > > So, at that time, my static system was pretty close. > > > > Jim Ayers > > Less Drag Special sn 1 (Modified HR2) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: David Maib < > dmaib(at)mac.com > > > > To: rv-list < > rv-list(at)matronics.com > > > > Sent: Mon, Dec 26, 2011 8:03 pm > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... > > > dmaib(at)mac.com > > > > > > > > Maybe a static port error? Check out some of Kevin Horton's articles > > in Kitplanes. Static port errors can, and do, cause "fast" errors. > > IIRC, Kevin says that pitot alignment does not have to be very > > precise to be pretty accurate. > > > > David Maib > > Rv-10 40559 > > Flying. > > On Dec 26, 2011, at 10:39 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > > > > dralle(at)matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > Dear Listers, > > > > > > I've been flying the new 10" Dynon Skyview in the RV-6 for a few > > > weeks now and it seems like the airspeed is reading maybe 10mph > > > fast. The GS always reads 10mph or more slower than the True > > > airspeed, no matter which way I fly with respect to the current > > > wind. Looking through the configuration options on the Skyview, > > > I'm not seeing parameters to calibrate the airspeed. If the > > > airspeed were *slow* compared to the GS, I could envision making > > > adjustments to the Pitot tube to get it in better alignment with > > > slipstream. But *fast* is a head scratcher. If there's no > > > electronic configuration parameters to adjust, what do you do? Are > > > there Pitot line "attenuators" like for RF in coax? ;-) > > > > > > Matt > > > > > > - > > > Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle > > > > > > RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" > > > > > > http://www.mattsrv8.com > > > - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log > > > > > > http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap > > > - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 > > > - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > > > Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... > > > > > > RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" > > > > > > http://www.mattsrv6.com > > > - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log > > > Status: 42+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full > > > Flyer Mode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _blank>www.aeroelectric.com > /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com > =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com > blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > t=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > p://forums.matronics.com > blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > > http://forums.matronics.com > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
From: "Bubblehead" <jdalmansr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 02, 2012
Kevin, I've been on your site a lot today reading about this. Next weekend if weather permits I will collect a lot of Numbers to plug into your speadsheet to see about IAS and TAS. I suspect the TAS on my Skyview is significantly off because I am getting wind vectors that disagree significantly with forecast winds aloft and what I observe for a correction angle (crab angle) while flying. In your experience if I correct my IAS and TAS by modifying the static port will I cause large changes and induce possible error on "indicated" altitude? As info i have the SafeAir1 system on my 8 including static ports and the static leak test was passed with flying colors just a month ago. I appreciate all the info you've share on this and other topics. John -------- John Keller, TX RV-8 N247TD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362269#362269 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Mills" <rvmills(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
Date: Jan 02, 2012
John, As you prepare to make your airspeed calibration runs, I'd also recommend you ensure your compass is well calibrated also. I have a legacy Dynon panel, but have also found that I saw very odd wind readouts before I ran a compass cal (or re-ran the cal after maintenance). Heading and speed errors will both wreak havoc with the GPS wind readouts, so eliminating both is important. Recommend running the compass cal with engine running, avionics on, and canopy closed...as close as you can get to normal in-flight conditions. I've used the NTPS spreadsheet from Kevin's site a lot (thanks Kevin), and it's a great tool! My TAS readout is consistently 2-4 knots faster than GPS readouts...lower when the standard deviation block on the spreadsheet is lower (meaning the data is better). My static ports are the standard rivet, so I think the shape is good. I actually think I have a bit of an issue with OAT (actually a touch of Ram Rise), since I always test at top speed (for speed mods), and I can see a change in OAT just by slowing or accelerating. Before I add thickness to the static port, I'm going to run some tests at slower speeds to see if the TAS-GPS speed delta decreases, then try moving the OAT probe from under the H-stab to inside the fuselage back there. We'll see. Just mentioned all this, as there are a few inputs to consider, and nulling out the others before making static port changes may be a good idea. I'd also like to hear Kevin's (and others') thoughts on the speed error versus altitude error question, but I would think that with all inputs calibrated, making a physical change to the static ports to reduce IAS/TAS errors would also reduce other static system output errors (like altitude). Good discussion! Cheers, Bob RV-6 N600SS Reno, NV -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bubblehead Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 12:37 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... Kevin, I've been on your site a lot today reading about this. Next weekend if weather permits I will collect a lot of Numbers to plug into your speadsheet to see about IAS and TAS. I suspect the TAS on my Skyview is significantly off because I am getting wind vectors that disagree significantly with forecast winds aloft and what I observe for a correction angle (crab angle) while flying. In your experience if I correct my IAS and TAS by modifying the static port will I cause large changes and induce possible error on "indicated" altitude? As info i have the SafeAir1 system on my 8 including static ports and the static leak test was passed with flying colors just a month ago. I appreciate all the info you've share on this and other topics. John -------- John Keller, TX RV-8 N247TD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362269#362269 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Date: Jan 02, 2012
John, Modifying the static ports to reduce the error in IAS will also reduce the error in the indicated altitude, IF the static port is the source of your problem. If the static port is not the source of your problem you could be introducing new errors in your altitude by modifying the static ports. Be very sure that you have ruled out other possible errors before attacking the static ports. 1. Be very sure that you don't have leaks in the static or pitot systems - do your own checks, rather than assuming the result from a month ago is still valid - you could easily have a new leak. 2. Measure the ASI instrument error in your EFIS - don't simply assume it is zero - my Dynon EFIS has some ASI instrument error. 3. And be sure your OAT is reasonably accurate. If after doing the three items above without finding a problem, then you must have issues with the static ports, which will affect both airspeed and altitude. Static port changes that reduce the ASI error will also reduce the altimeter error. Kevin On 2012-01-02, at 15:36 , Bubblehead wrote: > > Kevin, > > I've been on your site a lot today reading about this. Next weekend if weather permits I will collect a lot of Numbers to plug into your speadsheet to see about IAS and TAS. I suspect the TAS on my Skyview is significantly off because I am getting wind vectors that disagree significantly with forecast winds aloft and what I observe for a correction angle (crab angle) while flying. > > In your experience if I correct my IAS and TAS by modifying the static port will I cause large changes and induce possible error on "indicated" altitude? > > As info i have the SafeAir1 system on my 8 including static ports and the static leak test was passed with flying colors just a month ago. > > I appreciate all the info you've share on this and other topics. > > John > > -------- > John > Keller, TX > RV-8 N247TD > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362269#362269 > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
From: Jim Ayers <lessdragprod(at)aol.com>
Date: Jan 04, 2012
>From your previous information, for my 2,200' foot altitude change from fie ld elevation to the ridge line, there is about a 9 foot altitude difference for each degree C difference from the standard temperature change. Where the 2,200' ridge line temperature should be 4 degree C lower than the tempe rature at the field elevation. Does this sound about right? My aircraft has a Dynon Heated Pitot tube with the AOA port. It has a Dyno n D-10A EFIS which provides TAS, OAT and Density Altitude read-out capabil ity. For the Pitot/Static system test, Dynon specifically states that the Pitot tube CAN NOT be used as part of the Pitot pressure test.. It appears for the heated Dynon Pitot tube that Pitot pressure being accura te could be a bad assumption. I am trying to identify the sources of error in my Pitot/Static system and how much each contributes to the error. The EFIS readout is 8 knots low at a 8.000' density altitude cruise compare d to the GPS TAS calculation. Jim Ayers -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:41 am Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... The classical test method that directly compares actual vs indicated altitu de is he "tower fly-by". Typically a camera is placed on top of a tower about 1 00 t high, with the tower abeam the middle of a long runway. The camera is ve ry ccurately aimed, and the geometry of the tower, camera lens, etc is very we ll nown so that the height of the aircraft above the runway can be determined from he images, assuming the aircraft accurately tracks down the runway centreli ne. he aircraft instrumentation system records the altitude, with a very accura te ime stamp. Ground instrumentation records the altitude and OAT at ground evel, and the camera images have an accurate time stamp. Post flight analy sis s used to determine the actual vs indicated altitude as the aircraft passes by he tower at a range of airspeeds. This is used by some major test centres, but t is not practical for us as it requires too much specialized equipment to chieve reasonable accuracy. The method that is most practical for us is the speed course method (someti mes alled ground course method). It assumes that the pitot pressure is accurat e, hich is a reasonable assumption, and there are no static or pitot leaks, wh ich an be confirmed by ground test. The ASI instrument error must be measured. he TAS is measured using one of several possible methods (GPS data from a f our ourse box pattern is the current best method), and the CAS is back calculat ed rom the TAS, indicated altitude and OAT. The difference between CAS and IA S corrected for instrument error) must be due to static source position error . More info: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/l ist/AC%2023-8B/$FILE/Final-Part8.pdf http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/rvlinks/ssec.html Kevin Horton On 2012-01-02, at 10:35 , Jim Ayers wrote: > Do you have a test method that we can all use to calibrate the alimeter at ruise speed? The altimeter only has the static system for its input. Calibrating the static vents in cruise conditions for the altimeter could rovide a correction for airspeed readout errors. Correcting airspeed readouts errors by changing the static vent geometery eaves your altitude readings at cruise speeds as a total unknown. Jim Ayers -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> To: rv-list Sent: Tue, Dec 27, 2011 11:50 am Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... > Checking altimeter accuracy against tops of ridge lines only works if the temperature is close to standard temperature. If the temperature differs from standard, the error is about 4 ft per 1000 ft per degree C of difference from standard temperature. E.g., if the top of the > ridge line is 2000 ft above the airport where the altimeter setting came from, > and the temperature is 15 deg C warmer than standard temperature, the ltimeter will read about 4/1000 * 2000 * 15 = 120 ft lower than the actual altitu de. See: http://bathursted.ccnb.nb.ca/vatcan/fir/moncton/WeeklyTopics/Archives/2004 0104/CurrentTopic.html http://44rf.com/misc/USAF_AIS_Cold_WX_Altimeter.ppt Kevin Horton On 2011-12-27, at 12:44 , Jim Ayers wrote: > An easy way to check the static side of the airspeed indicator is to use our altimeter. > > I flew along a ridge line at cruise speed that has a 2200 feet peak as s hown > on my sectional. > > I may not have been exactly at the same level. Could have been 10 or 20 eet off in hieght. My altimeter read 2,210 feet. > So, at that time, my static system was pretty close. > > Jim Ayers > Less Drag Special sn 1 (Modified HR2) > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Maib < dmaib(at)mac.com > > To: rv-list < rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Sent: Mon, Dec 26, 2011 8:03 pm > Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... > dmaib(at)mac.com > > > > Maybe a static port error? Check out some of Kevin Horton's articles > in Kitplanes. Static port errors can, and do, cause "fast" errors. > IIRC, Kevin says that pitot alignment does not have to be very > precise to be pretty accurate. > > David Maib > Rv-10 40559 > Flying. > On Dec 26, 2011, at 10:39 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > dralle(at)matronics.com > > > > > > Dear Listers, > > > > I've been flying the new 10" Dynon Skyview in the RV-6 for a few > > weeks now and it seems like the airspeed is reading maybe 10mph > > fast. The GS always reads 10mph or more slower than the True > > airspeed, no matter which way I fly with respect to the current > > wind. Looking through the configuration options on the Skyview, > > I'm not seeing parameters to calibrate the airspeed. If the > > airspeed were *slow* compared to the GS, I could envision making > > adjustments to the Pitot tube to get it in better alignment with > > slipstream. But *fast* is a head scratcher. If there's no > > electronic configuration parameters to adjust, what do you do? Are > > there Pitot line "attenuators" like for RF in coax? ;-) > > > > Matt > > > > - > > Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle > > > > RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" > > > http://www.mattsrv8.com > - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log > > > http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap > - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log > > > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 > - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > > Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... > > > > RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" > > > http://www.mattsrv6.com > - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log > > Status: 42+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full > > Flyer Mode > > > > > > > > _blank>www.aeroelectric.com /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution t=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution -= - The RV-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2012
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
Well, when a pitot is hooked up for a static system test, there is no pressure applied to the pitot. Rather it sees the same vacuum that the static port sees. This prevents the pitot from being exposed to much higher static pressure than the static side connection to the airspeed indicator. On old bellows airspeed steam gauge, you can damage the instrument by taking the static up to too high altitude causing the airspeed needle to peg at above max reading for the instrument. On 1/3/2012 10:10 PM, Jim Ayers wrote: > > My aircraft has a Dynon Heated Pitot tube with the AOA port. It has a > Dynon D-10A EFIS which provides TAS, OAT and Density > Altitude read-out capability. > For the Pitot/Static system test, Dynon specifically states that the > Pitot tube CAN NOT be used as part of the Pitot pressure test.. > It appears for the heated Dynon Pitot tube that Pitot > pressure being accurate could be a bad assumption. > I am trying to identify the sources of error in my Pitot/Static system > and how much each contributes to the error. > The EFIS readout is 8 knots low at a 8.000' density altitude cruise > compared to the GPS TAS calculation. > Jim Ayers > -----Original Message----- > From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> > To: rv-list > Sent: Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:41 am > Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... > > --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton> > > The classical test method that directly compares actual vs indicated altitude is > the "tower fly-by". Typically a camera is placed on top of a tower about 100 > ft high, with the tower abeam the middle of a long runway. The camera is very > accurately aimed, and the geometry of the tower, camera lens, etc is very well > known so that the height of the aircraft above the runway can be determined from > the images, assuming the aircraft accurately tracks down the runway centreline. > The aircraft instrumentation system records the altitude, with a very accurate > time stamp. Ground instrumentation records the altitude and OAT at ground > level, and the camera images have an accurate time stamp. Post flight analysis > is used to determine the actual vs indicated altitude as the aircraft passes by > the tower at a range of airspeeds. This is used by some major test centres, but > it is not practical for us as it requires too much specialized equipment to > achieve reasonable accuracy. > > The method that is most practical for us is the speed course method (sometimes > called ground course method). It assumes that the pitot pressure is accurate, > which is a reasonable assumption, and there are no static or pitot leaks, which > can be confirmed by ground test. The ASI instrument error must be measured. > The TAS is measured using one of several possible methods (GPS data from a four > course box pattern is the current best method), and the CAS is back calculated > from the TAS, indicated altitude and OAT. The difference between CAS and IAS > (corrected for instrument error) must be due to static source position error. > > More info: > > http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/list/AC%2023-8B/$FILE/Final-Part8.pdf > > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/rvlinks/ssec.html > > Kevin Horton > > On 2012-01-02, at 10:35 , Jim Ayers wrote: > > > Do you have a test method that we can all use to calibrate the alimeter at > cruise speed? > > > > The altimeter only has the static system for its input. > > > > Calibrating the static vents in cruise conditions for the altimeter could > provide a correction for airspeed readout errors. > > > > Correcting airspeed readouts errors by changing the static vent geometery > leaves your altitude readings at cruise speeds as a total unknown. > > > > Jim Ayers > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kevin Horton<khorton01(at)rogers.com <mailto:khorton01(at)rogers.com>> > > To: rv-list> > > Sent: Tue, Dec 27, 2011 11:50 am > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton > > > > > > > Checking altimeter accuracy against tops of ridge lines only works if the > > temperature is close to standard temperature. > > > > If the temperature differs from standard, the error is about 4 ft per 1000 ft > > per degree C of difference from standard temperature. E.g., if the top of the > > > ridge line is 2000 ft above the airport where the altimeter setting came from, > > > and the temperature is 15 deg C warmer than standard temperature, the > altimeter > > will read about 4/1000 * 2000 * 15 = 120 ft lower than the actual altitude. > > > > See: > > > > > > http://bathursted.ccnb.nb.ca/vatcan/fir/moncton/WeeklyTopics/Archives/20040104/CurrentTopic.html > > http://44rf.com/misc/USAF_AIS_Cold_WX_Altimeter.ppt > > > > > > Kevin Horton > > > > On 2011-12-27, at 12:44 , Jim Ayers wrote: > > > > > An easy way to check the static side of the airspeed indicator is to use > your > > altimeter. > > > > > > I flew along a ridge line at cruise speed that has a 2200 feet peak as shown > > > on my sectional. > > > > > > I may not have been exactly at the same level. Could have been 10 or 20 > feet > > off in hieght. My altimeter read 2,210 feet. > > > So, at that time, my static system was pretty close. > > > > > > Jim Ayers > > > Less Drag Special sn 1 (Modified HR2) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: David Maib< > > dmaib(at)mac.com > > > > > > To: rv-list< > > rv-list(at)matronics.com > > > > > > Sent: Mon, Dec 26, 2011 8:03 pm > > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: David Maib< > > dmaib(at)mac.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe a static port error? Check out some of Kevin Horton's articles > > > in Kitplanes. Static port errors can, and do, cause "fast" errors. > > > IIRC, Kevin says that pitot alignment does not have to be very > > > precise to be pretty accurate. > > > > > > David Maib > > > Rv-10 40559 > > > Flying. > > > On Dec 26, 2011, at 10:39 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle< > > > > > dralle(at)matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Listers, > > > > > > > > I've been flying the new 10" Dynon Skyview in the RV-6 for a few > > > > weeks now and it seems like the airspeed is reading maybe 10mph > > > > fast. The GS always reads 10mph or more slower than the True > > > > airspeed, no matter which way I fly with respect to the current > > > > wind. Looking through the configuration options on the Skyview, > > > > I'm not seeing parameters to calibrate the airspeed. If the > > > > airspeed were *slow* compared to the GS, I could envision making > > > > adjustments to the Pitot tube to get it in better alignment with > > > > slipstream. But *fast* is a head scratcher. If there's no > > > > electronic configuration parameters to adjust, what do you do? Are > > > > there Pitot line "attenuators" like for RF in coax? ;-) > > > > > > > > Matt > > > > > > > > - > > > > Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle > > > > > > > > RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" > > > > > > > > > http://www.mattsrv8.com > > > > > - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log > > > > > > > > > http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap > > > > > - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log > > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 > > > > > - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > > > > Status: 170+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... > > > > > > > > RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" > > > > > > > > > http://www.mattsrv6.com > > > > > - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log > > > > Status: 42+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full > > > > Flyer Mode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _blank>www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com/> > > /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com/> > > =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/> > > blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > t=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > > p://forums.matronics.com > > blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > > > > http://forums.matronics.com > > > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > > > > > t=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > p://forums.matronics.com > blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Date: Jan 04, 2012
Jim, Yes, if the ridge is 2200 ft above the field elevation, and the temperature is 1 deg C below standard, the barometric altimeter would read approximately 9 ft high at the ridge. I believe that Dynon's statement that the pitot tube cannot be used for a leak check refers to the pitot drain that creates a very small leak internal to the pitot tube. In an ideal world, with no pitot leaks anywhere, in a constant airspeed condition there is no flow in the pitot system, and the pressure is the same everywhere in the pitot system. If there is a leak somewhere, air is escaping, and there must be air flow in the system to replace the air that is escaping through the leak. Air will only flow if there is a pressure differential, so the pressure at the leak (and from there to the ASI) must be lower than the pressure at the pitot tube and this lower pressure at the ASI causes the ASI to read low. But, if the leak is right in the pitot tube, and it is very small, as pitot drains should be by design, there is only a very short flow path between the pitot tube entrance and the leak location. Thus the pressure drop between the pitot entrance and the pitot drain should be so small as to be inconsequential. You could arrange some sort of test setup to measure the magnitude of this pressure drop if it still concerns you. Kevin Horton On 2012-01-04, at 24:10 , Jim Ayers wrote: > From your previous information, for my 2,200' foot altitude change from field elevation to the ridge line, there is about a 9 foot altitude difference for each degree C difference from the standard temperature change. Where the 2,200' ridge line temperature should be 4 degree C lower than the temperature at the field elevation. > > Does this sound about right? > > My aircraft has a Dynon Heated Pitot tube with the AOA port. It has a Dynon D-10A EFIS which provides TAS, OAT and Density Altitude read-out capability. > > For the Pitot/Static system test, Dynon specifically states that the Pitot tube CAN NOT be used as part of the Pitot pressure test.. > It appears for the heated Dynon Pitot tube that Pitot pressure being accurate could be a bad assumption. > > I am trying to identify the sources of error in my Pitot/Static system and how much each contributes to the error. > > The EFIS readout is 8 knots low at a 8.000' density altitude cruise compared to the GPS TAS calculation. > > Jim Ayers > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> > To: rv-list > Sent: Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:41 am > Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... > > > > > The classical test method that directly compares actual vs indicated altitude is > the "tower fly-by". Typically a camera is placed on top of a tower about 100 > ft high, with the tower abeam the middle of a long runway. The camera is very > accurately aimed, and the geometry of the tower, camera lens, etc is very well > known so that the height of the aircraft above the runway can be determined from > the images, assuming the aircraft accurately tracks down the runway centreline. > The aircraft instrumentation system records the altitude, with a very accurate > time stamp. Ground instrumentation records the altitude and OAT at ground > level, and the camera images have an accurate time stamp. Post flight analysis > is used to determine the actual vs indicated altitude as the aircraft passes by > the tower at a range of airspeeds. This is used by some major test centres, but > it is not practical for us as it requires too much specialized equipment to > achieve reasonable accuracy. > > The method that is most practical for us is the speed course method (sometimes > called ground course method). It assumes that the pitot pressure is accurate, > which is a reasonable assumption, and there are no static or pitot leaks, which > can be confirmed by ground test. The ASI instrument error must be measured. > The TAS is measured using one of several possible methods (GPS data from a four > course box pattern is the current best method), and the CAS is back calculated > from the TAS, indicated altitude and OAT. The difference between CAS and IAS > (corrected for instrument error) must be due to static source position error. > > More info: > > > http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/list/AC%2023-8B/$FILE/Final-Part8.pdf > > > > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/rvlinks/ssec.html > > > Kevin Horton > > On 2012-01-02, at 10:35 , Jim Ayers wrote: > > > Do you have a test method that we can all use to calibrate the alimeter at > cruise speed? > > > > The altimeter only has the static system for its input. > > > > Calibrating the static vents in cruise conditions for the altimeter could > provide a correction for airspeed readout errors. > > > > Correcting airspeed readouts errors by changing the static vent geometery > leaves your altitude readings at cruise speeds as a total unknown. > > > > Jim Ayers > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kevin Horton < > khorton01(at)rogers.com > > > > To: rv-list < > rv-list(at)matronics.com > > > > Sent: Tue, Dec 27, 2011 11:50 am > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... > > > khorton01(at)rogers.com > > > > > > > > Checking altimeter accuracy against tops of ridge lines only works if the > > temperature is close to standard temperature. > > > > If the temperature differs from standard, the error is about 4 ft per 1000 ft > > per degree C of difference from standard temperature. E.g., if the top of the > > > ridge line is 2000 ft above the airport where the altimeter setting came from, > > > and the temperature is 15 deg C warmer than standard temperature, the > altimeter > > will read about 4/1000 * 2000 * 15 = 120 ft lower than the actual altitude. > > > > See: > > > > > > > http://bathursted.ccnb.nb.ca/vatcan/fir/moncton/WeeklyTopics/Archives/20040104/CurrentTopic.html > > > > http://44rf.com/misc/USAF_AIS_Cold_WX_Altimeter.ppt > > > > > > > Kevin Horton > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
From: Jim Ayers <lessdragprod(at)aol.com>
Date: Jan 04, 2012
I could just create an airspeed correction chart if I normally flew at a pa rticular altitude. For example, at 8.000' density altitude 194 KTAS is 201 Knots GPS TAS and 2 01 KTAS is 209 Knots GPS TAS. However, for cruise at 17,500' station pressure altitude which could be clo se to 20,000 density altitude, the IAS and dynamic pressure would be much l ower. A different TAS airspeed correction chart would be required. Could it be as simple as making a TAS airspeed correction chart based on IA S? Jim Ayers -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> Sent: Wed, Jan 4, 2012 3:48 am Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... Jim, Yes, if the ridge is 2200 ft above the field elevation, and the temperature is 1 eg C below standard, the barometric altimeter would read approximately 9 ft igh at the ridge. I believe that Dynon's statement that the pitot tube cannot be used for a l eak heck refers to the pitot drain that creates a very small leak internal to t he itot tube. In an ideal world, with no pitot leaks anywhere, in a constant irspeed condition there is no flow in the pitot system, and the pressure is the ame everywhere in the pitot system. If there is a leak somewhere, air is scaping, and there must be air flow in the system to replace the air that i s scaping through the leak. Air will only flow if there is a pressure ifferential, so the pressure at the leak (and from there to the ASI) must b e ower than the pressure at the pitot tube and this lower pressure at the ASI auses the ASI to read low. But, if the leak is right in the pitot tube, an d it s very small, as pitot drains should be by design, there is only a very sho rt low path between the pitot tube entrance and the leak location. Thus the ressure drop between the pitot entrance and the pitot drain ! should be so small as to be inconsequential. You could arrange some sort o f est setup to measure the magnitude of this pressure drop if it still concer ns ou. Kevin Horton On 2012-01-04, at 24:10 , Jim Ayers wrote: > From your previous information, for my 2,200' foot altitude change from f ield levation to the ridge line, there is about a 9 foot altitude difference for ach degree C difference from the standard temperature change. Where the 2, 200' idge line temperature should be 4 degree C lower than the temperature at th e ield elevation. Does this sound about right? My aircraft has a Dynon Heated Pitot tube with the AOA port. It has a Dyn on -10A EFIS which provides TAS, OAT and Density Altitude read-out capability . For the Pitot/Static system test, Dynon specifically states that the Pitot ube CAN NOT be used as part of the Pitot pressure test.. It appears for the heated Dynon Pitot tube that Pitot pressure being accur ate ould be a bad assumption. I am trying to identify the sources of error in my Pitot/Static system and how uch each contributes to the error. The EFIS readout is 8 knots low at a 8.000' density altitude cruise compar ed o the GPS TAS calculation. Jim Ayers -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> To: rv-list Sent: Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:41 am Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... > The classical test method that directly compares actual vs indicated altit ude s the "tower fly-by". Typically a camera is placed on top of a tower about 100 > ft high, with the tower abeam the middle of a long runway. The camera is very > accurately aimed, and the geometry of the tower, camera lens, etc is very well > known so that the height of the aircraft above the runway can be determin ed rom the images, assuming the aircraft accurately tracks down the runway entreline. The aircraft instrumentation system records the altitude, with a very accu rate > time stamp. Ground instrumentation records the altitude and OAT at groun d level, and the camera images have an accurate time stamp. Post flight nalysis is used to determine the actual vs indicated altitude as the aircraft pass es y the tower at a range of airspeeds. This is used by some major test centres , ut it is not practical for us as it requires too much specialized equipment t o achieve reasonable accuracy. The method that is most practical for us is the speed course method (somet imes > called ground course method). It assumes that the pitot pressure is accu rate, > which is a reasonable assumption, and there are no static or pitot leaks, hich can be confirmed by ground test. The ASI instrument error must be measure d. The TAS is measured using one of several possible methods (GPS data from a our course box pattern is the current best method), and the CAS is back calcul ated > from the TAS, indicated altitude and OAT. The difference between CAS and IAS (corrected for instrument error) must be due to static source position err or. More info: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/ list/AC%2023-8B/$FILE/Final-Part8.pdf http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/rvlinks/ssec.html Kevin Horton On 2012-01-02, at 10:35 , Jim Ayers wrote: > Do you have a test method that we can all use to calibrate the alimeter at cruise speed? > > The altimeter only has the static system for its input. > > Calibrating the static vents in cruise conditions for the altimeter coul d provide a correction for airspeed readout errors. > > Correcting airspeed readouts errors by changing the static vent geometer y leaves your altitude readings at cruise speeds as a total unknown. > > Jim Ayers > -----Original Message----- > From: Kevin Horton < khorton01(at)rogers.com > > To: rv-list < rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Sent: Tue, Dec 27, 2011 11:50 am > Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... > khorton01(at)rogers.com > > > > Checking altimeter accuracy against tops of ridge lines only works if th e > temperature is close to standard temperature. > > If the temperature differs from standard, the error is about 4 ft per 10 00 t > per degree C of difference from standard temperature. E.g., if the top of he > ridge line is 2000 ft above the airport where the altimeter setting came rom, > and the temperature is 15 deg C warmer than standard temperature, the altimeter > will read about 4/1000 * 2000 * 15 = 120 ft lower than the actual alti tude. > > See: > > > http://bathursted.ccnb.nb.ca/vatcan/fir/moncton/WeeklyTopics/Archives/2004 0104/CurrentTopic.html > http://44rf.com/misc/USAF_AIS_Cold_WX_Altimeter.ppt > > > Kevin Horton > -= - The RV-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Date: Jan 04, 2012
Ignoring the small contribution due to weight (the AOA for a given IAS is affected by weight, which affects the flow field around the aircraft), the error in IAS will be a function of IAS. An X% error in IAS will translate into an X% error in TAS, so you could create a correction chart that gave the percent error in TAS as a function of IAS. Or, you could create a small table with TAS corrections for a number of cruise altitudes : TAS Correction for Altitude and IAS Corrected TAS = TAS from EFIS + correction Alt 80 90 100 110 120 130 140 150 160 170 180 0 +1.2 +1.1 +0.9 +0.6 +0.2 -0.2 -0.4 -0.9 -1.7 -2.3 -2.9 2000 +1.3 +1.1 +0.9 +0.6 +0.2 -0.2 -0.4 -0.9 -1.7 -2.4 -2.9 4000 +1.3 +1.2 +1.0 +0.6 +0.2 -0.2 -0.4 -1.0 -1.7 -2.4 -3.0 6000 +1.4 +1.2 +1.0 +0.7 +0.2 -0.2 -0.5 -1.0 -1.8 -2.5 -3.1 8000 +1.4 +1.3 +1.0 +0.7 +0.3 -0.2 -0.5 -1.0 -1.9 -2.6 -3.2 10000 +1.5 +1.3 +1.0 +0.7 +0.3 -0.2 -0.5 -1.1 -1.9 -2.7 -3.3 12000 +1.5 +1.3 +1.1 +0.7 +0.3 -0.2 -0.5 -1.1 -2.0 -2.7 -3.4 14000 +1.5 +1.4 +1.1 +0.7 +0.3 -0.3 -0.5 -1.1 -2.0 -2.8 -3.5 16000 +1.6 +1.4 +1.1 +0.8 +0.3 -0.3 -0.5 -1.2 -2.1 -2.9 -3.6 18000 +1.6 +1.5 +1.2 +0.8 +0.3 -0.3 -0.5 -1.2 -2.1 -3.0 -3.7 20000 +1.7 +1.5 +1.2 +0.8 +0.3 -0.3 -0.6 -1.2 -2.2 -3.1 -3.8 The above table is the actual errors in my aircraft, including EFIS ASI instrument error + static system position error. Many of the conditions are obviously not achievable in level flight. You'll need a fixed-width font to get the columns to line up. Kevin Horton On 2012-01-04, at 11:30 , Jim Ayers wrote: > I could just create an airspeed correction chart if I normally flew at a particular altitude. > > For example, at 8.000' density altitude 194 KTAS is 201 Knots GPS TAS and 201 KTAS is 209 Knots GPS TAS. > > However, for cruise at 17,500' station pressure altitude which could be close to 20,000 density altitude, the IAS and dynamic pressure would be much lower. A different TAS airspeed correction chart would be required. > > Could it be as simple as making a TAS airspeed correction chart based on IAS? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Swett <DSwett(at)arri.com>
Subject: Need to find RV buiilder in Mississippi
Date: Jan 04, 2012
SGksDQoNCkZpcnN0IHRpbWUgb24gdGhlIGxpc3QuICBNeSBmcmllbmQgaXMgbG9va2luZyBhdCBh biBSVi0xMCBwcm9qZWN0IGluIE9saXZlIEJyYW5jaCwgTWlzc2lzc2lwcGkuICBXZSBsaXZlIGlu IFNvQ2FsLiAgQW55b25lIGluIHRoYXQgc3RhdGUgd2hvIG1heSBiZSBhYmxlIHRvIGhhdmUgYSBs b29rIGF0IGl0IGZvciBoaW0/DQoNClRoYW5rcyBpbiBhZHZhbmNlIGZvciB5b3VyIGhlbHAuDQoN CkRhdmUNCk5hdmlvbiBwaWxvdA0KDQoNCg0KRGF2aWQgU3dldHQNCg0KU3IuIEZpZWxkIFNlcnZp Y2UgRW5naW5lZXIsIERpZ2l0YWwgSW1hZ2luZyBTeXN0ZW1zDQoNCg0KDQpBUlJJIEluYy4NCjYw MCBOb3J0aCBWaWN0b3J5IEJsdmQNCkJ1cmJhbmssIENBIDkxNTAyDQpQaG9uZTogICg4MTgpIDg0 MS03MDcwDQpGYXg6ICAgICAoODE4KSA4NDgtNDAyOA0KDQpbQUxFWEFdPGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuYXJy aS5jb20vPg0KDQpGb3IgYWxsIHRoZSBsYXRlc3Qgb24gQUxFWEEsIHZpc2l0IHd3dy5hcnJpLmNv bTxodHRwOi8vd3d3LmFycmkuY29tLz4gYW5kIFlvdVR1YmU8aHR0cDovL3d3dy55b3V0dWJlLmNv bS91c2VyL0FSUklDaGFubmVsPg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KVGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIGlzIGNvbmZpZGVu dGlhbC4gSXQgbWF5IGFsc28gYmUgcHJpdmlsZWdlZCBvciBvdGhlcndpc2UgcHJvdGVjdGVkIGJ5 IHdvcmsgcHJvZHVjdCBpbW11bml0eSBvciBvdGhlciBsZWdhbCBydWxlcy4gSWYgeW91IGhhdmUg cmVjZWl2ZWQgaXQgYnkgbWlzdGFrZSwgcGxlYXNlIGxldCB1cyBrbm93IGJ5IGUtbWFpbCByZXBs eSBhbmQgZGVsZXRlIGl0IGZyb20geW91ciBzeXN0ZW07IHlvdSBtYXkgbm90IGNvcHkgdGhpcyBt ZXNzYWdlIG9yIGRpc2Nsb3NlIGl0cyBjb250ZW50cyB0byBhbnlvbmUuIFBsZWFzZSBzZW5kIHVz IGJ5IGZheCBhbnkgbWVzc2FnZSBjb250YWluaW5nIGRlYWRsaW5lcyBhcyBpbmNvbWluZyBlLW1h aWxzIGFyZSBub3Qgc2NyZWVuZWQgZm9yIHJlc3BvbnNlIGRlYWRsaW5lcy4gVGhlIGludGVncml0 eSBhbmQgc2VjdXJpdHkgb2YgdGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIGNhbm5vdCBiZSBndWFyYW50ZWVkIG9uIHRo ZSBJbnRlcm5ldC4NCg= ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2012
From: Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
We just taped over the drain hole in the Dynon pitot tube while doing the biennial transponder and static check. Ed Holyoke On 1/4/2012 3:41 AM, Kevin Horton wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton > > Jim, > > Yes, if the ridge is 2200 ft above the field elevation, and the tempera ture is 1 deg C below standard, the barometric altimeter would read appro ximately 9 ft high at the ridge. > > I believe that Dynon's statement that the pitot tube cannot be used for a leak check refers to the pitot drain that creates a very small leak in ternal to the pitot tube. In an ideal world, with no pitot leaks anywher e, in a constant airspeed condition there is no flow in the pitot system, and the pressure is the same everywhere in the pitot system. If there i s a leak somewhere, air is escaping, and there must be air flow in the sy stem to replace the air that is escaping through the leak. Air will only flow if there is a pressure differential, so the pressure at the leak (a nd from there to the ASI) must be lower than the pressure at the pitot tu be and this lower pressure at the ASI causes the ASI to read low. But, i f the leak is right in the pitot tube, and it is very small, as pitot dra ins should be by design, there is only a very short flow path between the pitot tube entrance and the leak location. Thus the pressure drop betwe en the pitot entrance and the pitot drain ! > should be so small as to be inconsequential. You could arrange some sort of test setup to measure the magnitude of this pressure drop if it s till concerns you. > > Kevin Horton > > On 2012-01-04, at 24:10 , Jim Ayers wrote: > >> From your previous information, for my 2,200' foot altitude change fr om field elevation to the ridge line, there is about a 9 foot altitude di fference for each degree C difference from the standard temperature chang e. Where the 2,200' ridge line temperature should be 4 degree C lower th an the temperature at the field elevation. >> >> Does this sound about right? >> >> My aircraft has a Dynon Heated Pitot tube with the AOA port. It has a Dynon D-10A EFIS which provides TAS, OAT and Density Altitude read-out capability. >> >> For the Pitot/Static system test, Dynon specifically states that the P itot tube CAN NOT be used as part of the Pitot pressure test.. >> It appears for the heated Dynon Pitot tube that Pitot pressure being a ccurate could be a bad assumption. >> >> I am trying to identify the sources of error in my Pitot/Static system and how much each contributes to the error. >> >> The EFIS readout is 8 knots low at a 8.000' density altitude cruise co mpared to the GPS TAS calculation. >> >> Jim Ayers >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Kevin Horton<khorton01(at)rogers.com> >> To: rv-list >> Sent: Mon, Jan 2, 2012 9:41 am >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... >> >> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton> The classical test method that directly compares actual vs indicated a ltitude is >> the "tower fly-by". Typically a camera is placed on top of a tower a bout 100 >> ft high, with the tower abeam the middle of a long runway. The camera is very >> accurately aimed, and the geometry of the tower, camera lens, etc is v ery well >> known so that the height of the aircraft above the runway can be deter mined from >> the images, assuming the aircraft accurately tracks down the runway ce ntreline. >> The aircraft instrumentation system records the altitude, with a very accurate >> time stamp. Ground instrumentation records the altitude and OAT at gr ound >> level, and the camera images have an accurate time stamp. Post flight analysis >> is used to determine the actual vs indicated altitude as the aircraft passes by >> the tower at a range of airspeeds. This is used by some major test cen tres, but >> it is not practical for us as it requires too much specialized equipme nt to >> achieve reasonable accuracy. >> >> The method that is most practical for us is the speed course method (s ometimes >> called ground course method). It assumes that the pitot pressure is a ccurate, >> which is a reasonable assumption, and there are no static or pitot lea ks, which >> can be confirmed by ground test. The ASI instrument error must be mea sured. >> The TAS is measured using one of several possible methods (GPS data fr om a four >> course box pattern is the current best method), and the CAS is back ca lculated >> from the TAS, indicated altitude and OAT. The difference between CAS and IAS >> (corrected for instrument error) must be due to static source position error. >> >> More info: >> >> >> http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular. nsf/list/AC%2023-8B/$FILE/Final-Part8.pdf >> >> >> >> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/rvlinks/ssec.html >> >> >> Kevin Horton >> >> On 2012-01-02, at 10:35 , Jim Ayers wrote: >> >>> Do you have a test method that we can all use to calibrate the alime ter at >> cruise speed? >>> >>> The altimeter only has the static system for its input. >>> >>> Calibrating the static vents in cruise conditions for the altimeter c ould >> provide a correction for airspeed readout errors. >>> >>> Correcting airspeed readouts errors by changing the static vent geome tery >> leaves your altitude readings at cruise speeds as a total unknown. >>> >>> Jim Ayers >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Kevin Horton< >> khorton01(at)rogers.com >>> To: rv-list< >> rv-list(at)matronics.com >>> Sent: Tue, Dec 27, 2011 11:50 am >>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... >>> >>> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton< >> khorton01(at)rogers.com >> >>> Checking altimeter accuracy against tops of ridge lines only works if the >>> temperature is close to standard temperature. >>> >>> If the temperature differs from standard, the error is about 4 ft per 1000 ft >>> per degree C of difference from standard temperature. E.g., if the t op of the >>> ridge line is 2000 ft above the airport where the altimeter setting c ame from, >>> and the temperature is 15 deg C warmer than standard temperature, the >> altimeter >>> will read about 4/1000 * 2000 * 15 = 120 ft lower than the actual a ltitude. >>> >>> See: >>> >>> >>> >> http://bathursted.ccnb.nb.ca/vatcan/fir/moncton/WeeklyTopics/Archives/ 20040104/CurrentTopic.html >> >> http://44rf.com/misc/USAF_AIS_Cold_WX_Altimeter.ppt >> >>> >>> Kevin Horton >>> > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2012
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: EAA - Aeroplanner split
I just got a note from the Aeroplanner folks that they are terminating their relationship with EAA. EAA members currently using the Aeroplanner services free through EAA will need to pay for a membership to continue. I'm trying to put together a list of alternative sites that provide a similar service. So far (free): AOPA iflightplanner runwayfinder So far (pay): Aeroplanner FlightPrep Anyone else know of any? I used Aeroplanner the other day (still free) and filed VFR, flew etc. Great experience - gonna miss it! Ralph Capen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2012
Subject: Re: EAA - Aeroplanner split
From: thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com>
skyvector.com is free. I've used it a little. It's simple. -- Tom Sargent ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BigDog <bigdog(at)bentwing.com>
Subject: EAA - Aeroplanner split
Date: Jan 05, 2012
I saw the notice from Aeroplanner this morning. I'm more than a little disappointed that EAA did not sent out a notice. After all they are taking away a "benefit" of membership. If they are replacing it with something else (yea, right) then it would be nice to know. I only did look-ups and advance planning in Aeroplanner but I guess I'll switch to AOPA for that. Greg Young -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 11:35 AM Subject: RV-List: EAA - Aeroplanner split I just got a note from the Aeroplanner folks that they are terminating their relationship with EAA. EAA members currently using the Aeroplanner services free through EAA will need to pay for a membership to continue. I'm trying to put together a list of alternative sites that provide a similar service. So far (free): AOPA iflightplanner runwayfinder So far (pay): Aeroplanner FlightPrep Anyone else know of any? I used Aeroplanner the other day (still free) and filed VFR, flew etc. Great experience - gonna miss it! Ralph Capen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Hansen" <jerry-hansen(at)cox.net>
Subject: EAA - Aeroplanner split
Date: Jan 05, 2012
EAA sent a letter in the mail. Got mine yesterday. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BigDog Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 11:08 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: EAA - Aeroplanner split I saw the notice from Aeroplanner this morning. I'm more than a little disappointed that EAA did not sent out a notice. After all they are taking away a "benefit" of membership. If they are replacing it with something else (yea, right) then it would be nice to know. I only did look-ups and advance planning in Aeroplanner but I guess I'll switch to AOPA for that. Greg Young -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 11:35 AM Subject: RV-List: EAA - Aeroplanner split I just got a note from the Aeroplanner folks that they are terminating their relationship with EAA. EAA members currently using the Aeroplanner services free through EAA will need to pay for a membership to continue. I'm trying to put together a list of alternative sites that provide a similar service. So far (free): AOPA iflightplanner runwayfinder So far (pay): Aeroplanner FlightPrep Anyone else know of any? I used Aeroplanner the other day (still free) and filed VFR, flew etc. Great experience - gonna miss it! Ralph Capen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2012
From: Mike Divan <n343fd(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: EAA - Aeroplanner split
weathermeister.com - not free but well worth the yearly fee. Been using it for years. Built and maintained by a someone that built a RV7 and is now bu ilding (might be flying by now) a RV10 a true EAA'er.=0A=0A=0A-=0AMike Di van=0AN64GH - RV6 (flying) =0Ahttp://n64gh.blogspot.com/=0AFREEDOM IS NOT F REE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS!=0ARemember it is the-Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Coast Guard that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"!=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From : Jerry Hansen =0ATo: rv-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Thursday, January 5, 2012 12:23 PM=0ASubject: RE: RV-List: EAA - Aeroplanne ox.net>=0A=0AEAA sent a letter in the mail.- Got mine yesterday.=0A=0A--- --Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BigDog=0ASent: Thursday, J anuary 05, 2012 11:08 AM=0ATo: rv-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: RV-List g(at)bentwing.com>=0A=0AI saw the notice from Aeroplanner this morning. I'm mo re than a little disappointed that EAA did not sent out a notice. After all they are taking away a "benefit" of membership. If they are replacing it w ith something else (yea, right) then it would be nice to know. I only did l ook-ups and advance planning in Aeroplanner but I guess I'll switch to AOPA for that.=0A=0AGreg Young=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner -rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] O n Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen=0ASent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 11:35 AM=0ATo : rv-list=0ASubject: RV-List: EAA - Aeroplanner split=0A=0A--> RV-List mess age posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" =0A=0AI just got a n ote from the Aeroplanner folks that they are terminating their relationship with EAA.=0A=0AEAA members currently using the Aeroplanner services free t hrough EAA will need to pay for a membership to continue.=0A=0AI'm trying t o put together a list of alternative sites that provide a similar service. =0A=0ASo far (free):=0A=0AAOPA=0Aiflightplanner=0Arunwayfinder=0A=0ASo far (pay):=0A=0AAeroplanner=0AFlightPrep=0A=0AAnyone else know of any?- I use d Aeroplanner the other day (still free) and filed VFR, flew etc.- Great experience - gonna miss it!=0A=0ARalph Capen=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ============= ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2012
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: EAA - Aeroplanner split
> http://www.navmonster.com/ On 01/05/2012 03:50 PM, Mike Divan wrote: > weathermeister.com - not free but well worth the yearly fee. Been > using it for years. Built and maintained by a someone that built a RV7 > and is now building (might be flying by now) a RV10 a true EAA'er. > > Mike Divan > N64GH - RV6 (flying) > http://n64gh.blogspot.com/ > FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS! > Remember it is the Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Coast Guard > that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Jerry Hansen > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Thursday, January 5, 2012 12:23 PM > *Subject:* RE: RV-List: EAA - Aeroplanner split > > > > > EAA sent a letter in the mail. Got mine yesterday. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > ] On Behalf Of BigDog > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 11:08 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: EAA - Aeroplanner split > > > > > I saw the notice from Aeroplanner this morning. I'm more than a little > disappointed that EAA did not sent out a notice. After all they are > taking away a "benefit" of membership. If they are replacing it with > something else (yea, right) then it would be nice to know. I only did > look-ups and advance planning in Aeroplanner but I guess I'll switch > to AOPA for that. > > Greg Young > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > ] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 11:35 AM > To: rv-list > Subject: RV-List: EAA - Aeroplanner split > > > > > I just got a note from the Aeroplanner folks that they are terminating > their relationship with EAA. > > EAA members currently using the Aeroplanner services free through EAA > will need to pay for a membership to continue. > > I'm trying to put together a list of alternative sites that provide a > similar service. > > So far (free): > > AOPA > iflightplanner > runwayfinder > > So far (pay): > > Aeroplanner > FlightPrep > > Anyone else know of any? I used Aeroplanner the other day (still > free) and filed VFR, flew etc. Great experience - gonna miss it! > > <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <smitty(at)smittysrv.com>
Subject: Re: EAA - Aeroplanner split
Date: Jan 05, 2012
Aggreed on weathermeister.com. Well worth the money. Smitty http://SmittysRV.com From: Mike Divan Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 3:50 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: EAA - Aeroplanner split weathermeister.com - not free but well worth the yearly fee. Been using it for years. Built and maintained by a someone that built a RV7 and is now building (might be flying by now) a RV10 a true EAA'er. Mike Divan N64GH - RV6 (flying) http://n64gh.blogspot.com/ FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS! Remember it is the Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Coast Guard that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- From: Jerry Hansen <jerry-hansen(at)cox.net> Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2012 12:23 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: EAA - Aeroplanner split EAA sent a letter in the mail. Got mine yesterday. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BigDog Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 11:08 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: EAA - Aeroplanner split I saw the notice from Aeroplanner this morning. I'm more than a little disappointed that EAA did not sent out a notice. After all they are taking away a "benefit" of membership. If they are replacing it with something else (yea, right) then it would be nice to know. I only did look-ups and advance planning in Aeroplanner but I guess I'll switch to AOPA for that. Greg Young -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 11:35 AM Subject: RV-List: EAA - Aeroplanner split I just got a note from the Aeroplanner folks that they are terminating their relationship with EAA. EAA members currently using the Aeroplanner services free through EAA will need to pay for a membership to continue. I'm trying to put together a list of alternative sites that provide a similar service. So far (free): AOPA iflightplanner runwayfinder So far (pay): Aeroplanner FlightPrep Anyone else know of any? I used Aeroplanner the other day (still free) and filed VFR, flew etc. Great experience - gonna miss it! Ral-> =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bret Smith" <smithhb(at)tds.net>
Subject: EAA - Aeroplanner split
Date: Jan 05, 2012
Ditto on Weathermeister. and you get Logshare.com as well. A real "twofer" Bret Smith RV-9A N16BL Blue Ridge, GA www.FlightInnovations.com From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of smitty(at)smittysrv.com Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 6:31 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: EAA - Aeroplanner split Aggreed on weathermeister.com. Well worth the money. Smitty http://SmittysRV.com From: Mike Divan <mailto:n343fd(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 3:50 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: EAA - Aeroplanner split weathermeister.com - not free but well worth the yearly fee. Been using it for years. Built and maintained by a someone that built a RV7 and is now building (might be flying by now) a RV10 a true EAA'er. Mike Divan N64GH - RV6 (flying) http://n64gh.blogspot.com/ FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS! Remember it is the Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Coast Guard that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"! _____ From: Jerry Hansen <jerry-hansen(at)cox.net> Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2012 12:23 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: EAA - Aeroplanner split EAA sent a letter in the mail. Got mine yesterday. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BigDog Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 11:08 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: EAA - Aeroplanner split I saw the notice from Aeroplanner this morning. I'm more than a little disappointed that EAA did not sent out a notice. After all they are taking away a "benefit" of membership. If they are replacing it with something else (yea, right) then it would be nice to know. I only did look-ups and advance planning in Aeroplanner but I guess I'll switch to AOPA for that. Greg Young -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 11:35 AM Subject: RV-List: EAA - Aeroplanner split I just got a note from the Aeroplanner folks that they are terminating their relationship with EAA. EAA members currently using the Aeroplanner services free through EAA will need to pay for a membership to continue. I'm trying to put together a list of alternative sites that provide a similar service. So far (free): AOPA iflightplanner runwayfinder So far (pay): Aeroplanner FlightPrep Anyone else know of any? I used Aeroplanner the other day (still free) and filed VFR, flew etc. Great experience - gonna miss it! Ral-> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List Web Forums! href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com -Matt href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2012
From: Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: EAA - Aeroplanner split
Flight Prep has a free version called Golden Eagle. Free download: http://www.flightprep.com/rootpage.php?page=gefp_dl_pgmdata I've been using it for years and it works just fine. You can plan a flight and it will make up a trip log and print out strip maps, if you like. Enter your DUATS account info and you can download a briefing and file a flight plan. Weather charts can be downloaded. You can display Nexrad overlaid on your route of flight. It's got a lot of utility for no money out. Pax, Ed Holyoke On 1/5/2012 9:34 AM, Ralph E. Capen wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" > > I just got a note from the Aeroplanner folks that they are terminating their relationship with EAA. > > EAA members currently using the Aeroplanner services free through EAA will need to pay for a membership to continue. > > I'm trying to put together a list of alternative sites that provide a similar service. > > So far (free): > > AOPA > iflightplanner > runwayfinder > > So far (pay): > > Aeroplanner > FlightPrep > > Anyone else know of any? I used Aeroplanner the other day (still free) and filed VFR, flew etc. Great experience - gonna miss it! > > Ralph Capen > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: EAA - Aeroplanner split
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Jan 05, 2012
Yeah, but they were the ones who started the patent lawsuit last year, so I w ouldn't use their software if they gave out $50 for you to try it. Tim On Jan 5, 2012, at 10:01 PM, Ed Holyoke wrote: > Flight Prep has a free version called Golden Eagle. Free download: > http://www.flightprep.com/rootpage.php?page=gefp_dl_pgmdata > > I've been using it for years and it works just fine. You can plan a flight and it will make up a trip log and print out strip maps, if you like. Enter your DUATS account info and you can download a briefing and file a flight p lan. Weather charts can be downloaded. You can display Nexrad overlaid on yo ur route of flight. It's got a lot of utility for no money out. > > Pax, > > Ed Holyoke > > On 1/5/2012 9:34 AM, Ralph E. Capen wrote: >> >> >> I just got a note from the Aeroplanner folks that they are terminating th eir relationship with EAA. >> >> EAA members currently using the Aeroplanner services free through EAA wil l need to pay for a membership to continue. >> >> I'm trying to put together a list of alternative sites that provide a sim ilar service. >> >> So far (free): >> >> AOPA >> iflightplanner >> runwayfinder >> >> So far (pay): >> >> Aeroplanner >> FlightPrep >> >> Anyone else know of any? I used Aeroplanner the other day (still free) a nd filed VFR, flew etc. Great experience - gonna miss it! >> >> Ralph Capen >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
Subject: Re: EAA - Aeroplanner split
Date: Jan 07, 2012
I use www.fltplan.com for creating, filing, and saving flight plans, after using skyvector.com to rough out the route (and check weather) and airnav.com to refine where I stop for lowest price gas and call aprt managers to avoid surprises. They are all free. Never heard of the other products mentioned in this thread. David Carter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ian Brown <ixb(at)videotron.ca>
Subject: RE: EAA Aeroplanner split
Date: Jan 09, 2012
I use CoPilot flight planning software on the iPhone. http://www.ljd-tech.com/copilot/ It's also available for the iPad and Palm OS. It's excellent value at a one time payment of $20. The link to live online weather for flight planning is included. You can email kneeboard format flight plans to your computer for printing. Ian Brown C-GOHM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: For Sale
From: "cplunkett" <cplunkett(at)ec.rr.com>
Date: Jan 10, 2012
Carburetor - Precision Airmotive (Marvel/Schebler) MA4-5 --$650.00 Converted my Lyc. 0-360 from carbureted to fuel injected. This carb. gave me 1330 hours of excellent service. If interested, I can be reached by reply here, or PM.[/b] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362989#362989 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: For Sale - Fuel Pump
From: "cplunkett" <cplunkett(at)ec.rr.com>
Date: Jan 10, 2012
Low pressure engine driven fuel pump, LW15472 for sale- $175.00. This came off my Lycoming 0-360 recently for a fuel injection conversion. It has worked flawlessly for 1330 hours. You can contact me through this forum, by pm, or call me at 910-523-0564 M Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362990#362990 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com>
Subject: New Gust Lock
Date: Jan 11, 2012
We recently have been experimenting with a gust lock mechanism for our RV-1 0 that holds the stick in place w/o the use of seat belts etc... The goal w as to design a small unit to lock the control surfaces in a neutral positio n without using the seatbelts or other systems that could shift over time. We played with a number of different designs but most were not completely s uccessful due to the curvature of the stick around the binding area. Ultima tely we decided to place a hard point on the stick to guarantee no movement when attached. I was worried that the stick hard point may get in the way but it is a non-issue. Photos of our final design. [Description: J:\Users\Robin_2\Desktop\Gust Lock RV-10\Gust Lock Bracket RV -10 (1).JPG] [Description: J:\Users\Robin_2\Desktop\Gust Lock RV-10\Gust Lock Bracket RV -10 (2).JPG] [Description: J:\Users\Robin_2\Desktop\Gust Lock RV-10\Gust Lock Bracket RV -10 (4).JPG] [Description: J:\Users\Robin_2\Desktop\Gust Lock RV-10\Gust Lock Bracket RV -10 (6).JPG] The above design is made from solid stock. Had we to start from scratch we would probably build it out of thinner (lighter) aluminum made structurally sound with reinforcement and bends. Also properly designed a single seat s ide pin is all that would be needed. We ended up with two pins because the holes were already there from a prior concept. Mate this with our Rudder Gust Lock (below) and you have a pretty simple & small locking system. I keep both parts in a Ziploc bag stored in the bagga ge area. [Description: J:\Users\Robin_2\Pictures\Airplanes\RV-8A\RV-8A Build Photos\ Baggage door, gust lock, pitot cover 002.jpg] Robin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Garry Stout <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: New Gust Lock
Date: Jan 11, 2012
Looks great! Would it work on a RV7? Garry Stout Sent from my iPad On Jan 11, 2012, at 3:56 PM, Robin Marks wrote: > We recently have been experimenting with a gust lock mechanism for our RV- 10 that holds the stick in place w/o the use of seat belts etc The g oal was to design a small unit to lock the control surfaces in a neutral pos ition without using the seatbelts or other systems that could shift over tim e. We played with a number of different designs but most were not completely successful due to the curvature of the stick around the binding area. Ultim ately we decided to place a hard point on the stick to guarantee no movement when attached. I was worried that the stick hard point may get in the way b ut it is a non-issue. Photos of our final design. > > > > > > > The above design is made from solid stock. Had we to start from scratch we would probably build it out of thinner (lighter) aluminum made structurally sound with reinforcement and bends. Also properly designed a single seat si de pin is all that would be needed. We ended up with two pins because the ho les were already there from a prior concept. > Mate this with our Rudder Gust Lock (below) and you have a pretty simple & small locking system. I keep both parts in a Ziploc bag stored in the bagga ge area. > > > > Robin > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com>
Subject: New Gust Lock
Date: Jan 12, 2012
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Subject: Re: New Gust Lock
From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)newwavecomm.net>
Date: Jan 11, 2012
Are you selling them? How much for the rudder lock? Sent from my Verizon iPhone On Jan 11, 2012, at 8:29 PM, Robin Marks wrote: > Garry, > In a word no. This is a photo of my 6A (below). I believe the 7's basicall y identical in the seating / stick configuration. I don=99t see a way t o use the same style device in this set up. There may be a way to remove the boot stick cover and fit a locking device in that area but I no longer own m y 6A to check it out. > That being said my Rudder Lock design pictured in the prior email works gr eat on the 2 place RV's. In fact the photo of the rudder lock is from my 8A. > > http://painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv-6a/Interior.aspx > > > Robin > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matr onics.com] On Behalf Of Garry Stout > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 5:48 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: New Gust Lock > > Looks great! Would it work on a RV7? > > Garry Stout > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jan 11, 2012, at 3:56 PM, Robin Marks wrote: > > We recently have been experimenting with a gust lock mechanism for our RV- 10 that holds the stick in place w/o the use of seat belts etc The g oal was to design a small unit to lock the control surfaces in a neutral pos ition without using the seatbelts or other systems that could shift over tim e. We played with a number of different designs but most were not completely successful due to the curvature of the stick around the binding area. Ultim ately we decided to place a hard point on the stick to guarantee no movement when attached. I was worried that the stick hard point may get in the way b ut it is a non-issue. Photos of our final design. > > > > > > > The above design is made from solid stock. Had we to start from scratch we would probably build it out of thinner (lighter) aluminum made structurally sound with reinforcement and bends. Also properly designed a single seat si de pin is all that would be needed. We ended up with two pins because the ho les were already there from a prior concept. > Mate this with our Rudder Gust Lock (below) and you have a pretty simple & small locking system. I keep both parts in a Ziploc bag stored in the bagga ge area. > > > > Robin > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com>
Subject: Re: New Gust Lock
Date: Jan 12, 2012
No. Just flying in the Exp. Category and loving it. Robin Sent from my Galaxy Nexus Bobby Hester wrote: Are you selling them? How much for the rudder lock? Sent from my Verizon iPhone On Jan 11, 2012, at 8:29 PM, Robin Marks > wrote: Garry, In a word no. This is a photo of my 6A (below). I believe the 7's basically identical in the seating / stick configuration. I don=92t see a way to use the same style device in this set up. There may be a way to remove the boo t stick cover and fit a locking device in that area but I no longer own my 6A to check it out. That being said my Rudder Lock design pictured in the prior email works gre at on the 2 place RV's. In fact the photo of the rudder lock is from my 8A. http://painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv-6a/Interior.aspx Robin From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com<mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matron ics.com> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garry Sto ut Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 5:48 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: New Gust Lock Looks great! Would it work on a RV7? Garry Stout Sent from my iPad On Jan 11, 2012, at 3:56 PM, Robin Marks > wrote: We recently have been experimenting with a gust lock mechanism for our RV-1 0 that holds the stick in place w/o the use of seat belts etc=85 The goal w as to design a small unit to lock the control surfaces in a neutral positio n without using the seatbelts or other systems that could shift over time. We played with a number of different designs but most were not completely s uccessful due to the curvature of the stick around the binding area. Ultima tely we decided to place a hard point on the stick to guarantee no movement when attached. I was worried that the stick hard point may get in the way but it is a non-issue. Photos of our final design. The above design is made from solid stock. Had we to start from scratch we would probably build it out of thinner (lighter) aluminum made structurally sound with reinforcement and bends. Also properly designed a single seat s ide pin is all that would be needed. We ended up with two pins because the holes were already there from a prior concept. Mate this with our Rudder Gust Lock (below) and you have a pretty simple & small locking system. I keep both parts in a Ziploc bag stored in the bagga ge area. Robin ============ -List Email Forum - p> o:p> or?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ============ sp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - p> p://forums.matronics.com ============ sp; - List Contribution Web Site - > sp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ============ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2012
From: Bill Christie <billc3(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 01/12/12
---- RV-List Digest Server wrote: *Unsubscribe ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete RV-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the RV-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 12-01-12&Archive=RV Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 12-01-12&Archive=RV =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/12/12: 0 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 14, 2012
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: plane canopies
Anybody in or near Chesterfield Michigan that can check on Dave at Plane Canopies for me? Failed promises and now he won't return my calls. Linn ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com>
Subject: LightSquared
Date: Jan 14, 2012
Looks like good news for us GPS users... Snip<< The saga of LightSquared may be coming to its final turn, as no fewe r than nine federal agencies have unanimously agreed that its LTE network i nterferes with GPS in such a way that it can't be fixed.>> LightSquared LTE network interferes with GPS, says US government committee http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/13/2706232/lightsquared-lte-network-interfer es-gps-government-committee Robin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 14, 2012
From: Dave Nellis <truflite(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: plane canopies
Linn,=0A=0AI live in Chesterfield and know Dave.- Email me privately.=0A =0Atruflite(at)yahoo.com=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Linn Walters =0ATo: =0ASent: Saturday, January 1 4, 2012 12:32 AM=0ASubject: RV-List: plane canopies=0A =0A--> RV-List messa ge posted by: Linn Walters =0A=0AAnybody in or n ear Chesterfield Michigan that can check on Dave at Plane Canopies for me? =0A=0AFailed promises and now he won't return my calls.=0A=0ALinn=0A=0A=0A ============= ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 14, 2012
Subject: Re: LightSquared
From: Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com>
My guess: Phil Falcone and the Obama connection are bad news for GPS users - and that is how this story ends. Sure hope I'm wrong. Bill B On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Robin Marks wrote : > Looks like good news for us GPS users=85**** > > ** ** > > Snip<< The saga of LightSquared may be coming to its final turn, as no > fewer than nine federal agencies have unanimously agreed that its LTE > network interferes with GPS in such a way that it can't be fixed.>>**** > > ** ** > > *LightSquared LTE network interferes with GPS, says US government > committee* > > http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/13/2706232/lightsquared-lte-network-interf eres-gps-government-committee > **** > > ** ** > > Robin**** > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 21, 2012
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: plane canopies
Dave, thanks for the reply. I just got back from a weeks cruise and had a phone message from Dave. He's working my situation ..... at least that's what the message said. He apologized .... said he was out of town. Again, thanks. Linn On 1/14/2012 8:03 PM, Dave Nellis wrote: > Linn, > > I live in Chesterfield and know Dave. Email me privately. > > truflite(at)yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Linn Walters > *To:* > *Sent:* Saturday, January 14, 2012 12:32 AM > *Subject:* RV-List: plane canopies > > > > > Anybody in or near Chesterfield Michigan that can check on Dave at > Plane Canopies for me? > > Failed promises anatronics.com/Navigator?RV-List" > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/ &nbs================== > > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 21, 2012
From: Dave Nellis <truflite(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: plane canopies
Hope this all works out for you.- I have seen Dave work on a canopy and h e worked hard and meticulously to remove a scratch I could barely see.- I cannot see him being one that would purposely upset a customer.- I am en couraging him to look at RV canopies.- He, at least, wants to look at the one that comes with my finishing kit as a new product in his line.=0A=0A =0ADave=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Linn Walters < pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>=0ATo: rv-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Saturday, J anuary 21, 2012 2:41 PM=0ASubject: Re: RV-List: plane canopies=0A =0A=0ADav e, thanks for the reply.- I just got back from a weeks cruise and had a p hone message from Dave.- He's working my situation ..... at least that's what the message said.- He apologized .... said he was out of town.=0AAga in, thanks.=0ALinn=0A=0AOn 1/14/2012 8:03 PM, Dave Nellis wrote: =0ALinn, =0A>=0A>=0A>I live in Chesterfield and know Dave.- Email me privately.=0A >=0A>=0A>truflite(at)yahoo.com=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>____________________________ ____=0A> From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>=0A>To: =0A>Sent: Sa turday, January 14, 2012 12:32 AM=0A>Subject: RV-List: plane canopies=0A> =0A>=0A>Anybody in or near Chesterfield Michigan that can check on=0A Dave at Plane Canopies for me?=0A>=0A>Failed promises anatronics.com/ Navigator?RV-List"=0A target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com /- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - &nbs=== =================0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A ============= ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Midwest Paint Shops
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Date: Jan 27, 2012
Looking for a paint shop for my RV-10, preferably in the Midwest. I live in SE Michigan. Not looking to spend top dollar for the award winning finish, but want a nice 3-color paint job for the money. Thanks -Mike Kraus RV-10 Flying Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 27, 2012
Subject: van's calendar error
From: thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com>
Maybe I'm the last one to notice this, but I was surprised to see on my Van's 2012 calendar that both next sunday and monday are shown as the 29th of Jan. So the days labeled 30 and 31 are also wrong. It caused some confusion for a few minutes. I wonder if there are any other errors in the calendar? -- Tom Sargent ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 27, 2012
Subject: Re: van's calendar error
From: William Greenley <wgreenley(at)gmail.com>
They issued an SB on it. :) Check out their facebook. On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 4:57 PM, thomas sargent wrote: > Maybe I'm the last one to notice this, but I was surprised to see on my > Van's 2012 calendar that both next sunday and monday are shown as the 29th > of Jan. So the days labeled 30 and 31 are also wrong. It caused some > confusion for a few minutes. > > I wonder if there are any other errors in the calendar? > > -- > Tom Sargent > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RKAlex123(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 27, 2012
Subject: Re: van's calendar error
Van's does a much better designing aircraft than calendars. Their calendars usually have minor errors, but I get them for the photos. Bob In a message dated 1/27/2012 2:00:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, sarg314(at)gmail.com writes: Maybe I'm the last one to notice this, but I was surprised to see on my Van's 2012 calendar that both next sunday and monday are shown as the 29th of Jan. So the days labeled 30 and 31 are also wrong. It caused some confusion for a few minutes. I wonder if there are any other errors in the calendar? -- Tom Sargent (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 27, 2012
From: Dave Nellis <truflite(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Midwest Paint Shops
Mike,=0A=0AI live in Chesterfield Township.- Where abouts are you?=0A=0AD ave Nellis=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Michael Kra us =0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com; "rv-list@mat ronics.com" =0ASent: Friday, January 27, 2012 7:29 AM=0ASubject: RV-List: Midwest Paint Shops =0A =0A--> RV-List message poste d by: Michael Kraus =0A=0ALooking for a paint s hop for my RV-10, preferably in the Midwest.- I live in SE Michigan.=0A =0ANot looking to spend top dollar for the award winning finish, but want a nice 3-color paint job for the money.=0A=0AThanks=0A-Mike Kraus=0ARV-10 Fl ======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 27, 2012
Subject: Re: van's calendar error
From: Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com>
Oh my goodness! If you install that in your plane, you have to write "INOP" across Miss February or else ground yourself until you get her fixed. -Stormy On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 5:16 PM, William Greenley wrote: > > They issued an SB on it. :) Check out their facebook. > > On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 4:57 PM, thomas sargent wrote: > > Maybe I'm the last one to notice this, but I was surprised to see on my > > Van's 2012 calendar that both next sunday and monday are shown as the > 29th > > of Jan. So the days labeled 30 and 31 are also wrong. It caused some > > confusion for a few minutes. > > > > I wonder if there are any other errors in the calendar? > > > > -- > > Tom Sargent > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Bailey" <rick_bailey(at)skybeam.com>
Subject: First Flight of N102PK
Date: Jan 30, 2012
Almost 11 years ago, as I was reaching for the telephone to place an order for an RV-6, I discovered (through this list) that it was being replaced by the RV-7. The next day I was assigned builder #70012. On January 26th, after more than 10 years, 3 houses, 4 jobs, 1 wife, and 2 kids, I happily relinquished my title as the owner of the oldest unflown RV-7 kit. N102PK has finally slipped the surly bonds. It re-bonded about 1/2 hour later without any major squawks, due in large part to the list. A belated, but much deserved, contribution is currently being processed. Rick Bailey ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: First Flight of N102PK
From: Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au>
Date: Jan 31, 2012
Rick, My most sincere congratulations! It is a great feeling that never leaves you. You do realize now that very few experiences from now on will match this. Doug Gray Sent from my iPad On 31/01/2012, at 1:48 PM, "Rick Bailey" wrote: > > Almost 11 years ago, as I was reaching for the telephone to place an order > for an RV-6, I discovered (through this list) that it was being replaced by > the RV-7. The next day I was assigned builder #70012. > > On January 26th, after more than 10 years, 3 houses, 4 jobs, 1 wife, and 2 > kids, I happily relinquished my title as the owner of the oldest unflown > RV-7 kit. N102PK has finally slipped the surly bonds. It re-bonded about > 1/2 hour later without any major squawks, due in large part to the list. A > belated, but much deserved, contribution is currently being processed. > > Rick Bailey > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: First Flight of N102PK
From: vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 30, 2012
Rick- Excellent job! Good luck on your Phase 1 and beyond. You're going to love that plane. -GV (N1GV RV-6A flying 980 hrs) -----Original Message----- From: Rick Bailey <rick_bailey(at)skybeam.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 30, 2012 6:53 pm Subject: RV-List: First Flight of N102PK Almost 11 years ago, as I was reaching for the telephone to place an order or an RV-6, I discovered (through this list) that it was being replaced by he RV-7. The next day I was assigned builder #70012. On January 26th, after more than 10 years, 3 houses, 4 jobs, 1 wife, and 2 ids, I happily relinquished my title as the owner of the oldest unflown V-7 kit. N102PK has finally slipped the surly bonds. It re-bonded about /2 hour later without any major squawks, due in large part to the list. A elated, but much deserved, contribution is currently being processed. Rick Bailey -======================== -= - The RV-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
Date: Jan 30, 2012
Subject: Re: First Flight of N102PK
I'm 70240 and Rich Emery is 70238. I'm guessing we've now inherited the title? Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless -----Original message----- From: vanremog(at)aol.com Sent: Tue, Jan 31, 2012 03:46:56 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: RV-List: First Flight of N102PK Rick- Excellent job! Good luck on your Phase 1 and beyond. You're going to love that plane. -GV (N1GV RV-6A flying 980 hrs) -----Original Message----- From: Rick Bailey <rick_bailey(at)skybeam.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 30, 2012 6:53 pm Subject: RV-List: First Flight of N102PK Almost 11 years ago, as I was reaching for the telephone to place an order or an RV-6, I discovered (through this list) that it was being replaced by he RV-7. The next day I was assigned builder #70012. On January 26th, after more than 10 years, 3 houses, 4 jobs, 1 wife, and 2 ids, I happily relinquished my title as the owner of the oldest unflown V-7 kit. N102PK has finally slipped the surly bonds. It re-bonded about /2 hour later without any major squawks, due in large part to the list. A elated, but much deserved, contribution is currently being processed. Rick Bailey -========================-= - The RV-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List - -========================-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -========================-= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================= ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: First Flight of N102PK
From: "shirleyh" <shirleyh(at)oceanbroadband.net>
Date: Jan 31, 2012
Congratulations Rick! It's an experience worth the long wait. Well done! Shirley Harding RV6 flying RV12 under construction Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365290#365290 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Charles Rowbotham <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: First Flight of N102PK
Date: Feb 03, 2012
Hi Rick=2C CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!!! Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A sold (next RV pending) > From: rick_bailey(at)skybeam.com > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: First Flight of N102PK > Date: Mon=2C 30 Jan 2012 19:48:45 -0700 > > On January 26th=2C after more than 10 years=2C 3 houses=2C 4 jobs=2C 1 wi fe=2C and 2 > kids=2C I happily relinquished my title as the owner of the oldest unflow n > RV-7 kit. N102PK has finally slipped the surly bonds. It re-bonded about > 1/2 hour later without any major squawks=2C due in large part to the list . A > belated=2C but much deserved=2C contribution is currently being processed . > > Rick Bailey > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Bailey" <rick_bailey(at)skybeam.com>
Subject: First Flight of N102PK
Date: Feb 04, 2012
Anticipation of the posting below really helped keep me motivated over the years - "Someday that will be me". Thanks to Chuck and Dave for their support of nearly 200 builders over the last 12+ years (quick archive search of "Rowbotham & congratulations"). Now I believe that I am truly on to the next phase of RV'ing. Rick From: Charles Rowbotham <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: First Flight of N102PK Hi Rick=2C CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!!! Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A sold (next RV pending) > From: rick_bailey(at)skybeam.com > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: First Flight of N102PK > Date: Mon=2C 30 Jan 2012 19:48:45 -0700 > > On January 26th=2C after more than 10 years=2C 3 houses=2C 4 jobs=2C 1 wi fe=2C and 2 > kids=2C I happily relinquished my title as the owner of the oldest unflow n > RV-7 kit. N102PK has finally slipped the surly bonds. It re-bonded about > 1/2 hour later without any major squawks=2C due in large part to the list . A > belated=2C but much deserved=2C contribution is currently being processed .. > > Rick Bailey > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 2012
Subject: Venting Oil during Aerobatics
From: mr.gsun(at)gmail.com
I recently received some very much appreciated dual acro instruction in my 500 hour RV7. We did 90 minutes of fun acro with some negative and zero G maneuvers. My RV has an IO 360 (180 hp) with constant speed prop but without inverted fuel and oil. I started with about six quarts of oil and at the end of the flight I had almost a full quart gone. The belly of the plane was covered with oil and it seemed to all come from the oil crankcase vent overflow. My next few flights were not acro and there was no oil lost. Question is; Is this normal to lose that much oil during aerobatics? How do I avoid such an expensive mess? Do those air/oil separators work for this much oil? Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 2012
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Venting Oil during Aerobatics
On 2/12/2012 11:23 PM, mr.gsun(at)gmail.com wrote: > I recently received some very much appreciated dual acro instruction > in my 500 hour RV7. We did 90 minutes of fun acro with some negative > and zero G maneuvers. My RV has an IO 360 (180 hp) with constant > speed prop but without inverted fuel and oil. I started with about > six quarts of oil and at the end of the flight I had almost a full > quart gone. The belly of the plane was covered with oil and it seemed > to all come from the oil crankcase vent overflow. My next few > flights were not acro and there was no oil lost. > > Question is; Is this normal to lose that much oil during aerobatics? It's normal if you do the negative Gs. When in a negative G attitude the engine oil collects in the upper crankcase ...... where the vent is ..... and any blow-by will just force the oil overboard. > How do I avoid such an expensive mess? Keep the Gs positive and you'll keep the belly clean. It's easy to add inverted oil, but more difficult to add inverted fuel. > Do those air/oil separators work for this much oil? Oh no grasshopper! They'll keep some oil vapor off the belly but not liquid oil. And if you (or anyone else) do put an air/oil separator on your engine DO NOT run the collected crap back into your engine. Collect it in a bottle that you can empty .... and the first time you empty it you'll know why. Linn > > Thanks > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill Judge <bjudge(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 13, 2012
Subject: Asymmetric braking gotcha for tailwheel
Greetings, As I was doing my annual this year I changed the linings on my brakes on the right side and not the other. I guess this was part laziness, part stupidity and part me being a parsimonious curmudgeon but anyway that's what I did. I had done this before with no down sides... but this time the brake lining material was different... Well, first landing after changing the brakes, I make for the taxiway turn on the left. As I do this I realize that my right brake has little or no authority to stop the turn... Round we went in a very slow, graceful, nothing damaged but pride, ground loop. It could have been much worse. When I got back I changed both sides to linings out of the same package. I've got like 1500 hrs in tailwheel and I should have known better but I didn't and figured that someone else might avoid the same mistake if I put this out there. Have fun, Bill N84WJ, RV-8, 705 hrs http://rv-8.blogspot.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 2012
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Asymmetric braking gotcha for tailwheel
On 2/13/2012 10:50 AM, Bill Judge wrote: > Greetings, > As I was doing my annual this year I changed the linings on my brakes > on the right side and not the other. I guess this was part laziness, > part stupidity and part me being a parsimonious curmudgeon but anyway > that's what I did. I had done this before with no down sides... but > this time the brake lining material was different... > > Well, first landing after changing the brakes, I make for the taxiway > turn on the left. As I do this I realize that my right brake has > little or no authority to stop the turn... Round we went in a very > slow, graceful, nothing damaged but pride, ground loop. It could have > been much worse. Ah .... you were just checking for traffic, right??? ;-) Not sure where I got the 'direction', but after changing pads 'they' recommend a couple of 'panic stops' to heat up the pads and getting better braking action. > When I got back I changed both sides to linings out of the same package. > > I've got like 1500 hrs in tailwheel and I should have known better but > I didn't and figured that someone else might avoid the same mistake if > I put this out there. Glad you did. It's how we all learn. Thanks Linn > > Have fun, > > Bill > N84WJ, RV-8, 705 hrs > http://rv-8.blogspot.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 2012
Subject: New Business
From: Steven T <aircraftspecialty(at)gmail.com>
Good evening everyone. I posted this on the RV-10 Site last night, but I wanted to introduce myself to all RV Builders out there. My name is Steve, and I am an RV builder in Wisconsin. We just finished an RV-10, and previously I have completed a Challenger Amphib and about half a Murphy Moose. I have been involved in different aspects of aviation for my entire life, and have a passion for working on airplanes. It was only natural that my passion would eventually turn into a business, and I am now officially announcing the start of Aircraft Specialty LLC. We are working toward being a one stop shop for all your aviation needs. Right now we carry multiple product lines including: Sioux Tools, Lightspeed Headsets, Clecos and Accessories, and Tungsten Bucking Bars. In addition, we do custom fuel and brake line assemblies (with a really neat online calculator for automatic price quoting.), and are going to be adding a full CNC machine shop in the next several months. Our website is www.aircraftspecialty.com, and www.kitplanehoses.com I'd love it if you would take a look and feel free to forward suggestions and comments on what product lines you would be interested in seeing in the future. Also, please feel free to let your friends know about our site. I understand the value of customer service, and I feel that it will help differentiate us. My goal is to make sure all of our customers are 110% satisfied, and I will do whatever it takes to make sure that you are. Thanks again, and I look forward to doing business with you in the future. Sincerely, Steve Aircraft Specialty LLC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Fw: Fly-in INFO & RV6A for sale KCRG
Date: Feb 15, 2012
A friend of mine had put his RV-6A up for sale His contact info is after the photos Ed Subject: RE: Fly-in INFO & RV6A for sale KCRG Hello Lorene, Can you send me Love's Landing fly-In date please.Also can you pass along to the RV community that my 1997 RV6A N97BE is for sale. I lost my medical and trying to find her a good home. It is home based at JAX EXEC KCRG 1997 RV6A SLIDER - KCRG JAX FL . THIS ONE WON'T LAST . Selling due to health reasons - What a bargain Always hangared - Nose leg & fork mod per Vans advsry - 647 ttl A&P Prop 140+ knots @ 8.25gph - 160hp Lyc D2J tight no oil leaks, Compressions all cylinders good- VFR Day &Night - PTT both sticks - New Skytech high torque starter - KLX 135 GPS/COM coupled to AP navaid single axis w/wing leveler - Garmin 295 color GPS - Elec trim in panel & on pilot side stick.. Trim relay upgrade 2010 - MAC G5 stick - New LED tach & hobbs w/OAT & CAT large digital read out. New upgraded SS braded brake lines cockpit - New elec bus panel - Canopy cover - Cowl plugs - Tow bar - 110V Eng oil htr - tow bar Battery- minder . Contact Joe Ramirez - AIR HAWK ONE, INC., Owner - located Jacksonville, FL USA . Telephone: 904 813-1153 . 904 410-3265 . . Posted on www.barnstormers.com on February 13, 2012 Thanks - Joe Ramirez www.hydro-kleen.us www.airhawkone.com (904) 410-3265 office (904) 813-1153 mobile "Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous, However, It is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity, or neglect." From: Lorene Washburn [mailto:lorenewashburn(at)gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 4:27 PM Subject: Fwd: Fly-in ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Lorene Washburn <lorenewashburn(at)gmail.com> Date: Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 4:26 PM Subject: Fwd: Fly-in ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Lorene Washburn <lorenewashburn(at)gmail.com> Date: Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 4:26 PM Subject: Fwd: Fly-in ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Lorene Washburn <lorenewashburn(at)gmail.com> Date: Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 4:26 PM Subject: Fwd: Fly-in ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Lorene Washburn <lorenewashburn(at)gmail.com> Date: Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 4:25 PM Subject: Fwd: Fly-in ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Marcos Romeu <marcosromeu(at)yahoo.com> Date: Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 4:24 PM Subject: Fly-in Lorene EAA Chapter 66 out of Fort Myers,Fl Is planning a Fly-in on February the 18th At La Belle municipal Airport X14 Starting at 9:00 am and ending at 3:00 pm Lunch will be serve between 11:00 am and 1:00 pm This is on a donation basis Patty and Sam James will be hosting the event at their hangar Marcos Romeu ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 15, 2012
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Leaking tanks and green Loctite
I wish I had read Jason Kreiders email (tried the green Loctite and failed) before I hit 'send'. There must be some unknown (at this time) factor for those with success using the green Loctite ..... if there really are any. So, I pose the question ..... have any RVers fixed their leaking tanks with the green Loctite??? Linn On 2/15/2012 9:06 AM, Linn Walters wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: Linn Walters > > There are reports of green Loctite filling small leaks in the fuel > tanks. I don't know if it works or not since I haven't gone down that > path yet. > Negative pressure from a shop vac may help as well as 'cleaning' by > using MEK or acetone. > Linn > > > On 2/15/2012 2:33 AM, jchang10 wrote: >> --> RV10-List message posted by: >> "jchang10" >> >> I have weeping top rivets, too. I did the leak testing with a ballon, >> etc. after building the tanks, and all checked out at the time. >> >> Recently, I tried squishing proseal with some negative pressure in >> the tank. It seemed to help some. I repeated the positive tank >> pressure test with soapy water which revealed one weeping rivet but >> not some others with fuel. >> >> Clearly, the positive tank pressure test with just a balloon is not >> good enough to reveal all weeping rivets. >> >> Jae >> >> -------- >> #40533 RV-10 >> First flight 10/19/2011 >> Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366336#366336 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 15, 2012
Subject: Re: Leaking tanks and green Loctite
Putting negative pressure on a fuel tank with a shop vac is a BAD idea! Fuel/air vapors are EXPLOSIVE! Shop vacs use some of the "air" taken in to cool the motor which has sparking brushes. Dan Hopper RV-7A In a message dated 2/15/2012 9:24:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net writes: --> RV-List message posted by: Linn Walters I wish I had read Jason Kreiders email (tried the green Loctite and failed) before I hit 'send'. There must be some unknown (at this time) factor for those with success using the green Loctite ..... if there really are any. So, I pose the question ..... have any RVers fixed their leaking tanks with the green Loctite??? Linn On 2/15/2012 9:06 AM, Linn Walters wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: Linn Walters > > There are reports of green Loctite filling small leaks in the fuel > tanks. I don't know if it works or not since I haven't gone down that > path yet. > Negative pressure from a shop vac may help as well as 'cleaning' by > using MEK or acetone. > Linn > > > On 2/15/2012 2:33 AM, jchang10 wrote: >> --> RV10-List message posted by: >> "jchang10" >> >> I have weeping top rivets, too. I did the leak testing with a ballon, >> etc. after building the tanks, and all checked out at the time. >> >> Recently, I tried squishing proseal with some negative pressure in >> the tank. It seemed to help some. I repeated the positive tank >> pressure test with soapy water which revealed one weeping rivet but >> not some others with fuel. >> >> Clearly, the positive tank pressure test with just a balloon is not >> good enough to reveal all weeping rivets. >> >> Jae >> >> -------- >> #40533 RV-10 >> First flight 10/19/2011 >> Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366336#366336 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 15, 2012
From: George Steube <at6c(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Leaking tanks and green Loctite
Dan is right, you can use compressed air with a siphon tube (eg compressed air vacuum cleaner) to created a vacuum in the tank. You don't want a lot vacuum, you could collapse the tank. Regards, George On 2/15/2012 8:55 AM, Hopperdhh(at)aol.com wrote: > Putting negative pressure on a fuel tank with a shop vac is a BAD > idea! Fuel/air vapors are EXPLOSIVE! Shop vacs use some of the "air" > taken in to cool the motor which has sparking brushes. > Dan Hopper RV-7A > In a message dated 2/15/2012 9:24:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net writes: > > > > I wish I had read Jason Kreiders email (tried the green Loctite and > failed) before I hit 'send'. > There must be some unknown (at this time) factor for those with > success > using the green Loctite ..... if there really are any. > > So, I pose the question ..... have any RVers fixed their leaking > tanks > with the green Loctite??? > > Linn > > > On 2/15/2012 9:06 AM, Linn Walters wrote: > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Linn Walters > > > > > There are reports of green Loctite filling small leaks in the fuel > > tanks. I don't know if it works or not since I haven't gone > down that > > path yet. > > Negative pressure from a shop vac may help as well as 'cleaning' by > > using MEK or acetone. > > Linn > > > > > > On 2/15/2012 2:33 AM, jchang10 wrote: > >> --> RV10-List message posted by: > >> "jchang10" > >> > >> I have weeping top rivets, too. I did the leak testing with a > ballon, > >> etc. after building the tanks, and all checked out at the time. > >> > >> Recently, I tried squishing proseal with some negative pressure in > >> the tank. It seemed to help some. I repeated the positive tank > >> pressure test with soapy water which revealed one weeping rivet > but > >> not some others with fuel. > >> > >> Clearly, the positive tank pressure test with just a balloon is > not > >> good enough to reveal all weeping rivets. > >> > >> Jae > >> > >> -------- > >> #40533 RV-10 > >> First flight 10/19/2011 > >> Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Read this topic online here: > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366336#366336 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > ies ay - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - List > Contribution Web Site p; > > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 15, 2012
Subject: Re: Leaking tanks and green Loctite
From: Todd Bartrim <bartrim(at)gmail.com>
Green locktite worked great for me. Use a cleaning agent first (brake clean or similar). DO NOT use a mechanical vacuum source of any kind! This can and likely will cause damage to your tank skins and you just don't need that much vacuum to do the job. Lightly grease the fuel caps O-ring to ensure a good seal, then attach a small tube to the vent and suck on it for a few seconds. That's more than enough. If the vacuum is left on it will just draw all the locktite completly through the leak. Green locktite is self-wicking so really doesn't need any vacuum to draw it into the leak, but a slight temporary vacuum will ensure it makes it through, but then remove vacuum and apply a another drop to the rivet head to ensure it is completly filled. Do not wipe off excess. Leave it a few hours, then wipe off. This procedure worked for me. Todd Bartrim C-FSTB 13B RV9 On 2012-02-15 9:35 AM, "George Steube" wrote: > Dan is right, you can use compressed air with a siphon tube (eg > compressed air vacuum cleaner) to created a vacuum in the tank. You don't > want a lot vacuum, you could collapse the tank. > Regards, > George > > On 2/15/2012 8:55 AM, Hopperdhh(at)aol.com wrote: > > > Putting negative pressure on a fuel tank with a shop vac is a BAD idea! > Fuel/air vapors are EXPLOSIVE! Shop vacs use some of the "air" taken in to > cool the motor which has sparking brushes. > > Dan Hopper RV-7A > > > In a message dated 2/15/2012 9:24:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net writes: > > > I wish I had read Jason Kreiders email (tried the green Loctite and > failed) before I hit 'send'. > There must be some unknown (at this time) factor for those with success > using the green Loctite ..... if there really are any. > > So, I pose the question ..... have any RVers fixed their leaking tanks > with the green Loctite??? > > Linn > > > On 2/15/2012 9:06 AM, Linn Walters wrote: > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Linn Walters > > > > > There are reports of green Loctite filling small leaks in the fuel > > tanks. I don't know if it works or not since I haven't gone down that > > path yet. > > Negative pressure from a shop vac may help as well as 'cleaning' by > > using MEK or acetone. > > Linn > > > > > > On 2/15/2012 2:33 AM, jchang10 wrote: > >> --> RV10-List message posted by: > >> "jchang10" > >> > >> I have weeping top rivets, too. I did the leak testing with a ballon, > >> etc. after building the tanks, and all checked out at the time. > >> > >> Recently, I tried squishing proseal with some negative pressure in > >> the tank. It seemed to help some. I repeated the positive tank > >> pressure test with soapy water which revealed one weeping rivet but > >> not some others with fuel. > >> > >> Clearly, the positive tank pressure test with just a balloon is not > >> good enough to reveal all weeping rivets. > >> > >> Jae > >> > >> -------- > >> #40533 RV-10 > >> First flight 10/19/2011 > >> Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Read this topic online here: > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366336#366336 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > ies ay - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - List > Contribution Web Site p; > > > * > > * > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 2012
From: Larry Mersek <1rv6flyer(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Calaveras Co. Airport "Air Faire 2012"--Fly-In/Open House Sat.
April 21 Fellow RVer's The info below announces our annual airport Fly-In/Open House. We have always had a great turn out of RV's for this Fly-In and are looking for another good year. A special performance of RV formation flying by the West Coast Ravens is on the menu so come join in the fun! --Larry Mersek Calaveras Air Faire advertising EAA 484 member RV-6 flyer... ---------- Calaveras Airport "Air Faire 2012" The annual Fly-In & Open House at Calaveras Co. Airport is being held this year on Saturday April 21. Our local Lyons Club will serve breakfast, the EAA Mother Lode Chapter 484 will put on a delicious tri-tip BBQ lunch, and the Calaveras Community Band will be providing musical entertainment. Activities include aircraft and classic car static displays, aircraft fly-bys and arrivals, $5 & $10 scenic airplane rides, and a special demonstration of formation flying by the West Coast Ravens formation team. As in the past years we are again expecting a great turnout of aircraft flying so come join the fun and make KCPU your destination for the day! Event Info: Kathy Zancanella (209) 736-2501 kz(at)mlode.com EAA Mother Lode chapter 484 website: <http://www.eaa484.org/>www.EAA484.org Airport Info: http://co.calaveras.ca.us/cc/Departments/Administration/Airport.aspx http://www.airnav.com/airport/CPU ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 2012
From: Larry Mersek <1rv6flyer(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Calaveras Co. Airport "Air Faire 2012"--Fly-In/Open House
Sat. April 21 Oops... apologies for the BOLD text below, I was too quick to hit send! --Larry At 12:07 PM 2/20/2012, you wrote: > >Fellow RVer's > >The info below announces our annual airport Fly-In/Open House. We >have always had a great turn out of RV's for this Fly-In and are >looking for another good year. A special performance of RV >formation flying by the West Coast Ravens is on the menu so come >join in the fun! > >--Larry Mersek >Calaveras Air Faire advertising >EAA 484 member >RV-6 flyer... > >---------- > > >Calaveras Airport "Air Faire 2012" > >The annual Fly-In & Open House at Calaveras Co. Airport is being >held this year on Saturday April 21. Our local Lyons Club will serve >breakfast, the EAA Mother Lode Chapter 484 will put on a delicious >tri-tip BBQ lunch, and the Calaveras Community Band will be >providing musical entertainment. >Activities include aircraft and classic car static displays, >aircraft fly-bys and arrivals, $5 & $10 scenic airplane rides, and a >special demonstration of formation flying by the West Coast Ravens >formation team. >As in the past years we are again expecting a great turnout of >aircraft flying in so come join the fun and make KCPU your >destination for the day! > >Event Info: Kathy Zancanella (209) >736-2501 kz(at)mlode.com > >EAA Mother Lode chapter 484 website: <http://www.eaa484.org/>www.EAA484.org > >Airport >Info: http://co.calaveras.ca.us/cc/Departments/Administration/Airport.aspx > http://www.airnav.com/airport/CPU > > ><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 2012
Subject: Kitplanehoses.com Now Offers International Shipping
From: Steven T <aircraftspecialty(at)gmail.com>
We now have added international shipping options for our International Customers at http://www.kitplanehoses.com We also have online price quoting for our custom hose assemblies. You input your specs and our website gives you an instantaneous price quote and allows you to order. All of our orders are shipped out USPS priority mail (domestic and international) We offer all stainless braid, conductive teflon hoses with stainless steel fittings. In addition, our hoses are ALL pressure tested before being shipped to our customers. If anyone has any questions, please contact me at steve(at)aircraftspecialty.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 2012
From: Arthur Glaser <artglaser(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitplanehoses.com Now Offers International Shipping
I rebooted and tried again.- Same result. --- On Wed, 2/22/12, Steven T wrote: From: Steven T <aircraftspecialty(at)gmail.com> Subject: RV-List: Kitplanehoses.com Now Offers International Shipping Date: Wednesday, February 22, 2012, 11:21 PM We now have added international shipping options for our International Cust omers at http://www.kitplanehoses.com We also have online price quoting for our custom hose assemblies.- You in put your specs and our website gives you an instantaneous price quote and a llows you to order.- All of our orders are shipped out USPS priority mail (domestic and international)- We offer all stainless braid, conductive t eflon hoses with stainless steel fittings.- In addition, our hoses are AL L pressure tested before being shipped to our customers. If anyone has any questions, please contact me at steve(at)aircraftspecialty.c om ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-12 kit for sale or trade
From: "Markizz" <yandelforszep(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 28, 2012
dude you very help me :) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367460#367460 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 2012
Subject: Fitting Fairing to the Fuselage, how I do it......
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Here is a better description of how I fit my fairings..... Can be used for the gear leg to fuse, gear leg to wheel pant, or rear empennage intersection fairing. * Rough cut and dry fit up fairing to airplane. Drill #30 holes in locations where screws will eventually hold fairing to fuselage. When satisfied with the fit, draw a marker line on the fuselage around perimeter of fairing. Remove fairing. * Use mold release (I use the car wax stuff from Aircraft Spruce) and wipe it all over the fuselage about 2-4=B2 or more around both sides of the line you drew. DO NOT FORGET TO DO THIS STEP OR YOU WILL VERY UNHAPPY!! * Scuff up inside of fairing with 36-40 grit sandpaper on all surfaces wher e they will come into contact with the fuselage. * Clean fairings real good with acetone or similar to remove any dust/dirt/residue/mold release, etc * Work on one side of one fairing at a time (for instance, if you are working on the upper fuselage to gear leg intersection fairing, work on the fuselage to fairing interface first. Second time around work on the fairin g to gear leg interface). Lay up 2-3 layers of approximately 9 oz cloth on the fuselage over the line drawn in step 1. * Mix up flox and epoxy to a peanut butter consistency and apply about 1/16=B2-1/8=B2 onto the fairing surface that mates to the fuselage. This will help fill any gaps that may be present due to poorly formed fairings. * Mash the fairing onto the fuselage in position. Use cleco=B9s/clamps/screws/whatever you desire to hold it in place exactly where you want it until dry. * * Once dry, use compressed air to blow it free from the fuselage. Its amazing how well the compressed air works. Just get a little spot to break free, then blow air in the spot and the whole thing will pop off pretty easily. * Clean the fuselage up with a plastic scraper and acetone and clean real well. * Trim the fairing edge as desired to get a smooth edge. * * Repeat the process for the other side of the same fairing. For this example, that would be the upper gear leg to fairing surface (or the lower line as described above). DON=B9T FORGET THE MOLD RELEASE ON THE SURFACE YOU DON=B9T WANT IT BONDED TOO! * * Once complete, fill and sand, and fill, and sand, and fill, and sand unti l it is smooth to your satisfaction. For the rear empannage intersection fairing, I followed the same process, but layed up the HS to fairing surface first, then the VS to fairing surfac e second. I hope this is not too confusing. It is actually quite easy, just takes time.....especially in the Michigan winters when even fast drying epoxy takes 2 days to cure! -Mike Kraus RV-4 Flying and Sold RV-10 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2012
Subject: flap motor Failure?.
From: thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com>
Thursday morning when doing touch and goes in my 6A my flap motor stopped working. I landed and raced off to work and got back to it this morning. It will work for a while and then fail. I removed the switch (a high quality, sealed mil-spec switch) and tested it a lot on the bench - it never failed, I put it back in and the motor was intermittent. I removed the panel to access the motor and tried shaking the wiring and disconnecting and reconnecting the connector I have installed there, all to no effect. Failures didn't seem to correlate with anything Then I made a mating connector with 2 bare leads so the next time it failed I could disconnect the motor, connect the test connector and measure the voltage to see if voltage was getting to the motor. Of course, after that I couldn't get it to fail again. The connectors are good quality automotive ones with gold plated pins. I haven't had any failures of these connectors and I used a lot of them. So my question is about Van's flap motor typical failure modes. My suspicion is that the wiring and switch are OK - I suspect the motor. Can/does the motor itself often fail this way? I vaguely recall people say these motors aren't very reliable. -- Tom Sargent ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: flap motor Failure?.
From: Randy Hooper <krhooper(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 10, 2012
It is most likely inhibited by grease and brush dust caked in the motor. Dis assembly and cleaning will most likely solve the problem. This failure and remedy has been widely discussed over on vansairforce.net. Randy Hooper Sent from my iPad On Mar 10, 2012, at 4:44 PM, thomas sargent wrote: > Thursday morning when doing touch and goes in my 6A my flap motor stopped w orking. I landed and raced off to work and got back to it this morning. It will work for a while and then fail. I removed the switch (a high quality, sealed mil-spec switch) and tested it a lot on the bench - it never failed, I put it back in and the motor was intermittent. I removed the panel to ac cess the motor and tried shaking the wiring and disconnecting and reconnecti ng the connector I have installed there, all to no effect. Failures didn't s eem to correlate with anything Then I made a mating connector with 2 bare l eads so the next time it failed I could disconnect the motor, connect the te st connector and measure the voltage to see if voltage was getting to the mo tor. Of course, after that I couldn't get it to fail again. The connectors a re good quality automotive ones with gold plated pins. I haven't had any fa ilures of these connectors and I used a lot of them. > > So my question is about Van's flap motor typical failure modes. My susp icion is that the wiring and switch are OK - I suspect the motor. Can/does t he motor itself often fail this way? I vaguely recall people say these moto rs aren't very reliable. > -- > Tom Sargent > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: flap motor Failure?.
From: Dale Ensing <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Date: Mar 10, 2012
Tom, check the brushes in the motor. There is a history of grease from the g ear getting into the brush area and causing the type of failure. Dale Ensing RV-6A Sent from my iPhone On Mar 10, 2012, at 15:44, thomas sargent wrote: > Thursday morning when doing touch and goes in my 6A my flap motor stopped w orking. I landed and raced off to work and got back to it this morning. It will work for a while and then fail. I removed the switch (a high quality, sealed mil-spec switch) and tested it a lot on the bench - it never failed, I put it back in and the motor was intermittent. I removed the panel to ac cess the motor and tried shaking the wiring and disconnecting and reconnecti ng the connector I have installed there, all to no effect. Failures didn't s eem to correlate with anything Then I made a mating connector with 2 bare l eads so the next time it failed I could disconnect the motor, connect the te st connector and measure the voltage to see if voltage was getting to the mo tor. Of course, after that I couldn't get it to fail again. The connectors a re good quality automotive ones with gold plated pins. I haven't had any fa ilures of these connectors and I used a lot of them. > > So my question is about Van's flap motor typical failure modes. My susp icion is that the wiring and switch are OK - I suspect the motor. Can/does t he motor itself often fail this way? I vaguely recall people say these moto rs aren't very reliable. > -- > Tom Sargent > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: flap motor Failure?.
Date: Mar 10, 2012
I had the same failure mode on about my third flight. I had to take my motor apart and clean the contacts. There was too much grease on them =93 which cooked and caused an open! No problems since. IIRC Van=99s has a document on how to do this on their website =93 especially the part about putting the motor back together.. From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of thomas sargent Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 4:44 PM Subject: RV-List: flap motor Failure?. Thursday morning when doing touch and goes in my 6A my flap motor stopped working. I landed and raced off to work and got back to it this morning. It will work for a while and then fail. I removed the switch (a high quality, sealed mil-spec switch) and tested it a lot on the bench - it never failed, I put it back in and the motor was intermittent. I removed the panel to access the motor and tried shaking the wiring and disconnecting and reconnecting the connector I have installed there, all to no effect. Failures didn't seem to correlate with anything Then I made a mating connector with 2 bare leads so the next time it failed I could disconnect the motor, connect the test connector and measure the voltage to see if voltage was getting to the motor. Of course, after that I couldn't get it to fail again. The connectors are good quality automotive ones with gold plated pins. I haven't had any failures of these connectors and I used a lot of them. So my question is about Van's flap motor typical failure modes. My suspicion is that the wiring and switch are OK - I suspect the motor. Can/does the motor itself often fail this way? I vaguely recall people say these motors aren't very reliable. -- Tom Sargent ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2012
Subject: Re: flap motor Failure?.
From: thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com>
Thanks, that sounds very likely to be the problem. I now remember reading about this years ago, but I wasn't flying then and had forgotten about it. I'll work on it tomorrow. -- Tom Sargent ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Lee" <gene.lee(at)gte.net>
Subject: flap motor Failure?.
Date: Mar 10, 2012
I had a failure of my flap motor last year. The problem was the original specification for packing it with grease at the worm gear was found to be problematic over time. Grease was working its way up into the motor and binding it up. My symptom was that the breaker kept popping at random intervals. I learned that you can buy just a replacement motor from Usher Precision (503.992.0015) for much less than buying the whole flap motor assembly from Vans. So if your time to rebuild the motor isn=99t worth the $110.00 that you can buy a brand new one for, Usher is the place to call. Gene RV-7a From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 4:54 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: flap motor Failure?. I had the same failure mode on about my third flight. I had to take my motor apart and clean the contacts. There was too much grease on them =93 which cooked and caused an open! No problems since. IIRC Van=99s has a document on how to do this on their website =93 especially the part about putting the motor back together.. From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of thomas sargent Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 4:44 PM Subject: RV-List: flap motor Failure?. Thursday morning when doing touch and goes in my 6A my flap motor stopped working. I landed and raced off to work and got back to it this morning. It will work for a while and then fail. I removed the switch (a high quality, sealed mil-spec switch) and tested it a lot on the bench - it never failed, I put it back in and the motor was intermittent. I removed the panel to access the motor and tried shaking the wiring and disconnecting and reconnecting the connector I have installed there, all to no effect. Failures didn't seem to correlate with anything Then I made a mating connector with 2 bare leads so the next time it failed I could disconnect the motor, connect the test connector and measure the voltage to see if voltage was getting to the motor. Of course, after that I couldn't get it to fail again. The connectors are good quality automotive ones with gold plated pins. I haven't had any failures of these connectors and I used a lot of them. So my question is about Van's flap motor typical failure modes. My suspicion is that the wiring and switch are OK - I suspect the motor. Can/does the motor itself often fail this way? I vaguely recall people say these motors aren't very reliable. -- Tom Sargent http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: flap motor Failure?.
From: vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 10, 2012
I think the motor proper is probably quite reliable. Pittman makes good mo tors. On the other hand, I have heard that the way these linear actuators get greased during assembly can be a problem. The gear grease ends up migr ating into the commutator/brush area of the motor hosing up the operation. You may ultimately be able to correct it thru disassembly and a cleaning o f this area with IPA. -GV -----Original Message----- From: thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> Sent: Sat, Mar 10, 2012 1:45 pm Subject: RV-List: flap motor Failure?. Thursday morning when doing touch and goes in my 6A my flap motor stopped w orking. I landed and raced off to work and got back to it this morning. I t will work for a while and then fail. I removed the switch (a high qualit y, sealed mil-spec switch) and tested it a lot on the bench - it never fail ed, I put it back in and the motor was intermittent. I removed the panel t o access the motor and tried shaking the wiring and disconnecting and recon necting the connector I have installed there, all to no effect. Failures d idn't seem to correlate with anything Then I made a mating connector with 2 bare leads so the next time it failed I could disconnect the motor, conne ct the test connector and measure the voltage to see if voltage was getting to the motor. Of course, after that I couldn't get it to fail again. The connectors are good quality automotive ones with gold plated pins. I haven 't had any failures of these connectors and I used a lot of them. So my question is about Van's flap motor typical failure modes. My suspi cion is that the wiring and switch are OK - I suspect the motor. Can/does t he motor itself often fail this way? I vaguely recall people say these mot ors aren't very reliable. -- Tom Sargent -= - The RV-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 11, 2012
Subject: Flap Motor Failure
From: MLE <rv6awingman(at)gmail.com>
At about 70 hours my flap motor likewise failed. I did not take it apart but removed it from the mounting and sprayed the motor only down with some brake cleaner, the kind in a spray can that leaves no residue and flushed it out real good. Put back in the ship and it's been working fine for another 100 hours so far. Beats taking the brushes out and in! Your milage may vary Marty in Brentwood TN RV6A - N826ME Subject: RV-List: flap motor Failure?. From: thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> Thursday morning when doing touch and goes in my 6A my flap motor stopped working. I landed and raced off to work and got back to it this morning. It will work for a while and then fail. I removed the switch (a high quality, sealed mil-spec switch) and tested it a lot on the bench - it never failed, I put it back in and the motor was intermittent. I removed


November 17, 2011 - March 13, 2012

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