RV-Archive.digest.vol-vt
February 24, 2014 - June 29, 2014
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The gist of the install was to use 4 pieces of 1x2 inch profile angle=2C ea
ch about an inch long. I think the thickness was 0.125.
use those on each corner of the cooler to grab the coolers mounting holes.
shorter side of the angle on the engine baffles=2C longer side on the coole
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In an effort to isolate the cooler from vibration I over sized the holes an
d put in rubber bushings so that the cooler didn't touch anything but the b
olts and rubber bushings and then I sealed the perimeter with RTV. The RTV
is probably what is actually holding the cooler in place.=0A
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Below my sentence got cut off=2C I meant to say I didn't do the firewall mo
unt because I didn't like the idea of the hoses "working" as the engine vib
rated.
Bill=0A
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| From: | Marty Helller <marty_away(at)hotmail.com> |
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler's... |
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I have one with ~ 4 hours on it. Will sell for an hours worth of fuel plus
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shipping. Had unrelated cooling issues on first few flights=2C but ev
er
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yone pointed to the non- standard configuration (on firewall) so I changed
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to SW clone on baffling and still hard other problems to resolve.... Now l
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ife is cool at 175 oil temp and < 330 CHT.
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Contact off line at 703-732-3264
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Marty
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RV-7=2C 150 hrs=2C KSUT
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| From: | bjudge(at)gmail.com |
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Subject: RV-List: Re: Oil Cooler's...
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I just dug back through my emails to find the skinny on the Setrab cooler.
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I'm pretty sure it is this one:
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http://www.hrpworld.com/store/default/100-series-std-10-row-oil-cooler-3-ta
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ll-m22-ports.html
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It comes with straight on AN fittings but I couldn't get them to work
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in the space I had so I used these:http://www.hrpworld.com/store/default/an
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-10-x-m22-hose-fitting-90.html
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These fitting are mega expensive but swivel which takes alot of the
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stress off the attach points. I went this route for a few reasons:
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I had the stock cooler completely covered with AL tape and stillcouldn't ge
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t over 200 F temps.(Too much cooling)
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My baffles cracked from the weight of the stock cooler.(too much weight)I k
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new of a rv-6 built by 3 engineers(one is a DER) and they've flown
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400 hrs trouble free with this cooler.I didn't do the firewall mount becaus
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e i didn't want the hoses
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Even still when its cold I can't get over 160 F.
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Bill
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On Thu=2C Feb 20=2C 2014 at 7:29 AM=2C Bill Judge
wrote:
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I've been running a Setrab 10 row for around 750 hrs=2C no problems=2C
temp
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s often run too low and so its half covered with AL tape. It's about 1/3 th
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e size of the standard Vans cooler.
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They are made of aluminum rather than brass and AL just works better for a
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heat exchanger.
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You can get aircraft fittings on them too=2C they even have swivel fittin
gs
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at 90 and 45 degrees available.
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Bill
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N84WJ=2C RV-8=2C 980 hrs
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rv-8.blogspot.com
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From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
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Subject: RV-List: Oil Cooler's...
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Greetings RV'ers=2C
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On the RV-8=2C I've got Stewart/Warner 10610R 10 row oil cooler for the I
O-
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390.
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It's mounted on the rear baffle and its worked well and kept the oil temps
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in
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the low 180's under all conditions.
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I noticed today=2C that the outside mounting flange that goes next to the
b
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affle
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is cracked. I suppose I could get it welded or brazed or whatever they do
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to
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aluminium=2C but that seems like a hack.
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Apparently=2C Chief doesn't carry the Stewart/Warner brand anymore and ha
s
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to different
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variants of the Aero Classic brand in the 10 Row 10610R compatible unit.
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One is the "Standard" model for $269:
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http://www.chiefaircraft.com/aircraft/oil-system-filters/oil-cooler
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s/standard/aec-8000081.html
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The other is the "HE" (High Efficiency) models are $575:
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http://www.chiefaircraft.com/aircraft/oil-system-filters/oil-cooler
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s/he-series/aec-8001646.html
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Any thought's on either of these two options? Pros and cons. The HE model
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s look
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a lot like the S&W model I have=2C assuming the pictures are accurate.
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Thanks for the feedback.
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Matt
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-
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Matt Dralle
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RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
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http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
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http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
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http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
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Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
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RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
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http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
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Status: 200+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete=3B Now In Full Flye
r
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Mode
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Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
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Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
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Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
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For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
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________________________________ Message 7 ______________________________
_______
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From: Marty Helller <marty_away(at)hotmail.com>
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Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Oil Cooler's...
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Also had this configuration....I'll send you photos when home=2C next wee
k.
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In short=2C mounted 2 parallel pieces of angle aluminum on firewall=
2C a
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nd mounted Setrab to that. Then built a fiberglass 'vulcano' to funnel the
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air. Had a butterfly valve at the attachment to the baffling....
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Marty
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RV-7=2C KSUT 150 hrs
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( P.s. Hi Bill..... Still owe you a ride....)
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Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Oil Cooler's...
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From: larry(at)bowenaero.com
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Bill -
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How did you mount the setrab? Any pictures?--
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Larry Bowen
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Larry(at)BowenAero.com
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http://BowenAero.com
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On Thu=2C Feb 20=2C 2014 at 10:29 AM=2C Bill Judge
wrote
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:
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I've been running a Setrab 10 row for around 750 hrs=2C no problems=2C
temp
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s often run too low and so its half covered with AL tape. It's about 1/3 th
=0A
e size of the standard Vans cooler.
=0A
=0A
=0A
They are made of aluminum rather than brass and AL just works better for a
=0A
heat exchanger.
=0A
=0A
You can get aircraft fittings on them too=2C they even have swivel fittin
gs
=0A
at 90 and 45 degrees available.
=0A
=0A
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Bill
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N84WJ=2C RV-8=2C 980 hrs
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rv-8.blogspot.com
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From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
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Subject: RV-List: Oil Cooler's...
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Greetings RV'ers=2C
=0A
=0A
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On the RV-8=2C I've got Stewart/Warner 10610R 10 row oil cooler for the I
O-
=0A
390.
=0A
=0A
It's mounted on the rear baffle and its worked well and kept the oil temps
=0A
in
=0A
=0A
the low 180's under all conditions.
=0A
=0A
=0A
I noticed today=2C that the outside mounting flange that goes next to the
b
=0A
affle
=0A
=0A
is cracked. I suppose I could get it welded or brazed or whatever they do
=0A
to
=0A
=0A
aluminium=2C but that seems like a hack.
=0A
=0A
=0A
Apparently=2C Chief doesn't carry the Stewart/Warner brand anymore and ha
s
=0A
to different
=0A
=0A
variants of the Aero Classic brand in the 10 Row 10610R compatible unit.
=0A
=0A
=0A
One is the "Standard" model for $269:
=0A
=0A
=0A
http://www.chiefaircraft.com/aircraft/oil-system-filters/oil-cooler
=0A
s/standard/aec-8000081.html
=0A
=0A
=0A
The other is the "HE" (High Efficiency) models are $575:
=0A
=0A
=0A
http://www.chiefaircraft.com/aircraft/oil-system-filters/oil-cooler
=0A
s/he-series/aec-8001646.html
=0A
=0A
=0A
Any thought's on either of these two options? Pros and cons. The HE model
=0A
s look
=0A
=0A
a lot like the S&W model I have=2C assuming the pictures are accurate.
=0A
=0A
=0A
Thanks for the feedback.
=0A
=0A
=0A
Matt
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-
=0A
=0A
Matt Dralle
=0A
=0A
=0A
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
=0A
=0A
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
=0A
=0A
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
=0A
=0A
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
=0A
=0A
Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
=0A
=0A
=0A
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
=0A
=0A
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
=0A
=0A
Status: 200+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete=3B Now In Full Flye
r
=0A
Mode
=0A
=0A
=0A
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
=0A
=0A
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
=0A
=0A
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
=0A
=0A
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
=0A
=0A
=0A
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
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tp://forums.matronics.com
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_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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________________________________ Message 8 ______________________________
_______
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From: RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
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Subject: RE: RV-List: Oil Cooler's...
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I originally flew my O-320 RV-6 in Southern California heat during Septembe
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r 1997 with an oil cooler mounted on the firewall with 3" SCAT tubing runni
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ng to it.
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I constantly had high oil temperature. Relocating the oil cooler to the en
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gine mount behind cylinder #4 with a full size opening duct to it just an i
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nch behind the cylinder lowered oil temp 30 degrees F.
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In a high heat environment with high power settings=2C I would not use a
fi
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rewall mounted oil cooler and 3" SCAT to it. There is not enough air flow
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going through the oil cooler with the setup that I originally had.
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Gary A. Sobek
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"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell=2C
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2=2C810+ Flying Hours So. CA=2C USA
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get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
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http://forums.matronics.com
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le=2C List Admin.
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="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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=0A
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t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List=0A
tp://forums.matronics.com=0A
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: flight guide publications |
| From: | Thomas Sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
John:
where are you getting the airport info if not from flight guide? I really
like the airport diagrams in flight guide, otherwise I just get the FAA
facilities book.
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 11:55 PM, wrote:
>
>
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JohnF" <n29cx(at)ridgeviewtel.us> |
| Subject: | Re: flight guide publications |
I get airport diagrams and information from WingX on my Ipad, and also
on my backup HP 4700 using Anywhere Map...also additional info from Air
Nav web site.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Sargent
To: rv-list
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: flight guide publications
John:
where are you getting the airport info if not from flight guide? I
really like the airport diagrams in flight guide, otherwise I just get
the FAA facilities book.
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 11:55 PM, wrote:
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ralph Finch <ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: flight guide publications |
I've had back luck with them too, ever since they made the big change
in their paper format. Since then their right hand doesn't know what
their left foot is doing.
I wish they would quit trying to sell retail. Instead, wholesale their
excellent airport maps to WingX, ForeFlight, etc., to replace the poor
quality airport diagrams in those apps. They could also wholesale
their maps to someone who could properly print and distribute them.
On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Thomas Sargent wrote:
> About 14 months ago I ordered a copy of the spiral bound paper edition of
> the trusty old "flight guide" from airguide publications (flightguide.com).
> They still list it on their website, but they still haven't shipped it.
> Every few months I send them an email asking where it is and they respond
> telling me it will ship in "a couple months".
>
> They are pushing an electronic version of the flight guide (for IPads or
> Kindles), but I am loathe to become dependent on yet another battery powered
> device that's hard to read in daylight. My old flight guide is falling
> apart.
>
> Has any one else had this experience with these people or is it just me that
> they hate? Are they going broke? Being sued out of existence? What?
>
>
> --
> Tom Sargent
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | flight guide publications |
If everyone that has had problems with them posts something=2C this will be
a very long thread.
I tried their new paper product=2C it was late=2C and not user friendly. I
had the entire US or all 6 books in the new format. Started using Forefli
ght but kept the local book for one year. I may have opened it once in a y
ear but I may have never opened it. Dropped all their products and do not
miss it.
Years ago=2C I had a difficult time reading documents on a computer but sin
ce everything at work was available as a soft copy or I could print and hav
e a hard copy=2C I taught myself to read on the computer screen without the
hard copy. Since the iPad has come out=2C I read almost everything as a e
Copy.
IF the eCopy of Flight Guide was FREE or a couple of bucks=2C I may use it
but have been able to get everything I need from Foreflight so will use the
money I save for AvGas and fly more.
BTW=2C I have 1=2C635 Cross Country hours and do use the latest info for fl
ight planning and execution. Flight Guide is not one of the products that
I have used since they changed the format. Yes I tried it=2C did not like
it=2C found Foreflight to be an EXCELLENT replacement.
Respectfully=2C
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell=2C
2=2C820+ Flying Hours So. CA=2C USA
> From: ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.com
> Date: Mon=2C 24 Feb 2014 12:53:37 -0800
> Subject: Re: RV-List: flight guide publications
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> I've had back luck with them too=2C ever since they made the big change
> in their paper format. Since then their right hand doesn't know what
> their left foot is doing.
>
> I wish they would quit trying to sell retail. Instead=2C wholesale their
> excellent airport maps to WingX=2C ForeFlight=2C etc.=2C to replace the p
oor
> quality airport diagrams in those apps. They could also wholesale
> their maps to someone who could properly print and distribute them.
>
> On Sun=2C Feb 16=2C 2014 at 11:36 AM=2C Thomas Sargent wrote:
> > About 14 months ago I ordered a copy of the spiral bound paper edition
of
> > the trusty old "flight guide" from airguide publications (flightguide.c
om).
> > They still list it on their website=2C but they still haven't shipped i
t.
> > Every few months I send them an email asking where it is and they respo
nd
> > telling me it will ship in "a couple months".
> >
> > They are pushing an electronic version of the flight guide (for IPads o
r
> > Kindles)=2C but I am loathe to become dependent on yet another battery
powered
> > device that's hard to read in daylight. My old flight guide is falling
> > apart.
> >
> > Has any one else had this experience with these people or is it just me
that
> > they hate? Are they going broke? Being sued out of existence? What?
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tom Sargent
> >
> >
>
===========
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>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: flight guide publications |
They do license their diagrams to Dynon, AFS, Aspen and a bunch of
portable units via Seattle Avionics.
On 2/24/2014 1:53 PM, Ralph Finch wrote:
>
> I've had back luck with them too, ever since they made the big change
> in their paper format. Since then their right hand doesn't know what
> their left foot is doing.
>
> I wish they would quit trying to sell retail. Instead, wholesale their
> excellent airport maps to WingX, ForeFlight, etc., to replace the poor
> quality airport diagrams in those apps. They could also wholesale
> their maps to someone who could properly print and distribute them.
>
> On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Thomas Sargent wrote:
>> About 14 months ago I ordered a copy of the spiral bound paper edition of
>> the trusty old "flight guide" from airguide publications (flightguide.com).
>> They still list it on their website, but they still haven't shipped it.
>> Every few months I send them an email asking where it is and they respond
>> telling me it will ship in "a couple months".
>>
>> They are pushing an electronic version of the flight guide (for IPads or
>> Kindles), but I am loathe to become dependent on yet another battery powered
>> device that's hard to read in daylight. My old flight guide is falling
>> apart.
>>
>> Has any one else had this experience with these people or is it just me that
>> they hate? Are they going broke? Being sued out of existence? What?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tom Sargent
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: flight guide publications |
| From: | Thomas Sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
Is there something like foreflight that works with an android phone?
Apparently they deal only with Apple stuff.
On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 2:18 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> They do license their diagrams to Dynon, AFS, Aspen and a bunch of
> portable units via Seattle Avionics.
>
>
> On 2/24/2014 1:53 PM, Ralph Finch wrote:
>
>>
>> I've had back luck with them too, ever since they made the big change
>> in their paper format. Since then their right hand doesn't know what
>> their left foot is doing.
>>
>> I wish they would quit trying to sell retail. Instead, wholesale their
>> excellent airport maps to WingX, ForeFlight, etc., to replace the poor
>> quality airport diagrams in those apps. They could also wholesale
>> their maps to someone who could properly print and distribute them.
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Thomas Sargent
>> wrote:
>>
>>> About 14 months ago I ordered a copy of the spiral bound paper edition of
>>> the trusty old "flight guide" from airguide publications (
>>> flightguide.com).
>>> They still list it on their website, but they still haven't shipped it.
>>> Every few months I send them an email asking where it is and they respond
>>> telling me it will ship in "a couple months".
>>>
>>> They are pushing an electronic version of the flight guide (for IPads or
>>> Kindles), but I am loathe to become dependent on yet another battery
>>> powered
>>> device that's hard to read in daylight. My old flight guide is falling
>>> apart.
>>>
>>> Has any one else had this experience with these people or is it just me
>>> that
>>> they hate? Are they going broke? Being sued out of existence? What?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tom Sargent
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bigdog(at)bentwing.com" <bigdog(at)bentwing.com> |
| Subject: | flight guide publications |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: flight guide publications |
| From: | Nikolaos Napoli <napolin(at)me.com> |
I have been using the Garmin app on a Nexus 7 tablet. I have also used Fore
flight, and are using WingX and Garmin on an iphone 5. The android garmin a
pp is definitely not as nice as whats available on the Apple devices, howeve
r, its still good and better than the other android apps I have looked at. O
ne nice thing about the Nexus 7 is that it has a good built in GPS. I have n
ot had a problem with it losing satellites.
Nikolaos Napoli
> On Feb 24, 2014, at 7:02 PM, "bigdog(at)bentwing.com" w
rote:
>
> Garmin Pilot works on Android. They pretty much match features with Forefl
ight. I used it because I have a GDL-39 for ADSB. I display ADSB on my 796 i
n flight and realized I only use my Ipad for preflight planning. So I switch
ed back to Foreflight when I had to renew. It=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s a goo
d product but I think Foreflight is better in some areas.
>
> Regards,
> Greg Young
>
>
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matr
onics.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Sargent
> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 5:41 PM
> To: rv-list
> Subject: Re: RV-List: flight guide publications
>
> Is there something like foreflight that works with an android phone? Appa
rently they deal only with Apple stuff.
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 2:18 PM, Kelly McMullen wrot
e:
>
> They do license their diagrams to Dynon, AFS, Aspen and a bunch of portabl
e units via Seattle Avionics.
>
>
> On 2/24/2014 1:53 PM, Ralph Finch wrote:
>
> I've had back luck with them too, ever since they made the big change
> in their paper format. Since then their right hand doesn't know what
> their left foot is doing.
>
> I wish they would quit trying to sell retail. Instead, wholesale their
> excellent airport maps to WingX, ForeFlight, etc., to replace the poor
> quality airport diagrams in those apps. They could also wholesale
> their maps to someone who could properly print and distribute them.
>
> On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Thomas Sargent wrote
:
> About 14 months ago I ordered a copy of the spiral bound paper edition of
> the trusty old "flight guide" from airguide publications (flightguide.com)
.
> They still list it on their website, but they still haven't shipped it.
> Every few months I send them an email asking where it is and they respond
> telling me it will ship in "a couple months".
>
> They are pushing an electronic version of the flight guide (for IPads or
> Kindles), but I am loathe to become dependent on yet another battery power
ed
> device that's hard to read in daylight. My old flight guide is falling
> apart.
>
> Has any one else had this experience with these people or is it just me th
at
> they hate? Are they going broke? Being sued out of existence? What?
>
>
>
> --
> Tom Sargent
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> =========================
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> =========================
> MS -
> k">http://forums.matronics.com
> =========================
> e -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> =========================
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Tom Sargent
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
> ky=C2=B7=C3=A8=C5=BE=C3=9B"=C3=8D=C3=AD=C5=93=C2=A2Z+=C3=93M4=C3=93G=C3=9A
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=BA=C2=BA=C3=98=C2=A8=C5=B8=C3=B6=C2o=C3=B7=C3=A8=C5=BE=C3=9F=C3=A9
=C2=AD=C3=AF=C3=9B=C2=A1=C3=9C=C2-=C3=99=C2=A5
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Just inspected my circa 1994 RV-6 for both the stab spar and elevator spar cracks
per the respective SB's and found nothing questionable. Whew.
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 200+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fisher Paul A." <FisherPaulA(at)johndeere.com> |
| Subject: | flight guide publications |
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PT09PT09PT09PT09DQoNCg0K
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Re: Van's SBs |
| From: | Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com> |
Any idea how many planes with cracks have been found to date?
grumpy
On Feb 24, 2014, at 9:16 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
> --> RV8-List message posted by: Matt Dralle
>
>
> Just inspected my circa 1994 RV-6 for both the stab spar and elevator spar cracks
per the respective SB's and found nothing questionable. Whew.
>
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 200+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
But that's probably a pretty high percentage of "cracks found" because its more
likely that someone finding a crack would report it to Van's than someone not
finding a crack. 10% seems crazy high especially considering that it took this
long to "discover".
Seems like everyone should report their findings to Van's good or bad so that their
stats are realistic.
Just send them to "support@vansaircraft". Included my N number and Serial number.
Matt Dralle
At 06:43 PM 2/25/2014 Tuesday, Alan Searle wrote:
>--> RV8-List message posted by: Alan Searle
>
>Roughly 10% of those reporting their inspection.
>
>AKS
>
>
>On 26/02/2014, at 12:33 PM, Miller John wrote:
>
>> --> RV8-List message posted by: Miller John
>>
>> Any idea how many planes with cracks have been found to date?
>>
>> grumpy
>>
>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 9:16 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
>>
>>> --> RV8-List message posted by: Matt Dralle
>>>
>>>
>>> Just inspected my circa 1994 RV-6 for both the stab spar and elevator spar
cracks per the respective SB's and found nothing questionable. Whew.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Matt Dralle
>>>
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Re: Van's SBs |
| From: | vanremog(at)aol.com |
According to those on the RV-List, none. I would like Van's to publish bet
ter info on this issue and report under what conditions these problems seem
to manifest themselves.
-GV
-----Original Message-----
From: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tue, Feb 25, 2014 5:34 pm
Subject: RV-List: Re: RV8-List: Re: Van's SBs
Any idea how many planes with cracks have been found to date?
grumpy
On Feb 24, 2014, at 9:16 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
> --> RV8-List message posted by: Matt Dralle
>
>
> Just inspected my circa 1994 RV-6 for both the stab spar and elevator spa
r
cracks per the respective SB's and found nothing questionable. Whew.
>
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 200+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer
Mode
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Re: Van's SBs |
According to VAF, not a few :(
> On Feb 26, 2014, at 12:19 AM, vanremog(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> According to those on the RV-List, none. I would like Van's to publish be
tter info on this issue and report under what conditions these problems seem
to manifest themselves.
>
> -GV
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com>
> To: rv8-list
> Sent: Tue, Feb 25, 2014 5:34 pm
> Subject: RV-List: Re: RV8-List: Re: Van's SBs
>
>
> Any idea how many planes with cracks have been found to date?
>
> grumpy
>
> On Feb 24, 2014, at 9:16 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
> > --> RV8-List message posted by: Matt Dralle
> >
> >
> > Just inspected my circa 1994 RV-6 for both the stab spar and elevator sp
ar
> cracks per the respective SB's and found nothing questionable. Whew.
> >
> >
> > -
> > Matt Dralle
> >
> > RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> > http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> > Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
> >
> > RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> > http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> > Status: 200+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer
Mode
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Power move to Everett, WA and Oshkosh, WI |
At 01:24 PM 3/18/2014 Tuesday, you wrote:
>--> Avionics-List message posted by: "c1jensen"
>
>Hi folks,
>
>Just wanted to put a post out there to be sure the news is on Matronics that the
Vertical Power product line was purchased by Astronics Ballard Technology in
Everett, WA, and I am the new customer support rep, based in Oshkosh, WI. Marc
Ausman is working with me during the transition to get me up to speed on support
issues and if you need anything, please don't hesitate to contact me at
425-328-1658 or 920-216-3699. Email is support(at)verticalpower.com
>
>--------
>Chad Jensen
>Vertical Power Support
>RV-7, built, flown, sold
Great to see you on the List, Chad. I have a VP-200 in my RV-8 and another one
in my RV-6. Absolutely love them. I can't imagine flying without the electrical
automation features of the VP-200 specifically. Will Astronics be working
on a new version of the VP-200 with those automation features? Marc had said
that they were going to add them to the VP-300/400 models, but I understand
that Astronics won't be carrying those models.
For me, the real utility and strength in the Vertical Power products is/was the
automation. If I were in the market for a new experimental electrical system,
I'm not sure I'd be all that interesting in the VP-x, but I'd buy another VP-200
in a heartbeat.
Please keep us up to date on Astronics' current and future product updates.
Big Fan of Vertical Power Products,
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 180+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | How to determine drill bit sharpness? |
| From: | "tomhanaway" <tomhanaway1(at)gmail.com> |
Working on drilling longerons. Any general guidelines for determining when a #40
has lost its edge?
10, 50, 100. 300 holes?
--------
RV-10. Built and sold
RV-8a. Building
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420665#420665
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How to determine drill bit sharpness? |
| From: | Hal Benjamin <halbenjamin101(at)gmail.com> |
Hi Tom,
I think you should be able to get a few hundred pretty easily. When in doubt, try
a new bit to see how it compares. When it starts taking significantly longer
to drill a hole, change it out.
Hal Benjamin
RV-4 Flying
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 20, 2014, at 8:19 AM, "tomhanaway" wrote:
>
>
> Working on drilling longerons. Any general guidelines for determining when a
#40 has lost its edge?
> 10, 50, 100. 300 holes?
>
> --------
> RV-10. Built and sold
> RV-8a. Building
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420665#420665
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How to determine drill bit sharpness? |
On Thu, 20 Mar 2014, tomhanaway wrote:
>
> Working on drilling longerons. Any general guidelines for determining when a
#40 has lost its edge?
> 10, 50, 100. 300 holes?
Go by how it drills. If you are getting long spirals of aluminum it is
sharp. If you are getting small chips it is dull.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com)
RV-8A 80091 baffling.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Power move to Everett, WA and Oshkosh, WI |
At 05:24 PM 3/20/2014 Thursday, you wrote:
>--> Avionics-List message posted by: Ralph Finch
>
>Why did I want the -200? For the same reasons Matt cited. I just
>don't see the benefit of merely replacing some circuit breakers that
>is essentially the role of the VP-X.
I think the biggest downfall of the VP-200 was that potential customers didn't
really understand just how *awesome* the automation functionality is and how it
really works. Many times at fly-ins or other events where I've had an opportunity
to show off the VP-200, fellow homebuilders are in awe of the automation
after I've take a few minutes to explain just how it works and how it significantly
reduces my workload during the various phases of flight. The fact that
the VP-200 knows, based on GPS/RPM/AHRS data exactly what mode of flight that
I'm in - Start/Taxi/Runup/Takeoff/Cruse/Landing - and switches on or off the
electrical circuits that I've pre-programmed for each mode of flight is simply
genius. Not only is the concept certainly revolutionary in the market, but
the VP-200's implementation of it just works and works great. The only external
input that is missing to the logic, IMHO, is the determination of Day vs. Night.
I have to manually turn the position lights on. It seems like either the
input from the exiting dimmer electric eye or from some sort of real time clock
could make this happen.
Ralph's idea of adding automation to the VP-x though the use of an external embedded
processor and display is a good one. Maybe when I get the RV-8 back in
the air, I'll start working on something along those lines... :-)
Best regards,
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 200+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fisher Paul A." <FisherPaulA(at)JohnDeere.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Power move to Everett, WA and Oshkosh, WI |
Not to be argumentative, but I still don't get it. I'm all for reducing workload
in critical phases of flight, but I've only got three circuit switches that
I use in that situation - flaps, fuel pump, and landing light wigwag. Everything
else is on at start up and off at shutdown, both of which are low stress,
low workload phases. I'm not turning over control of flaps, so that really just
leaves two circuits that I would want to control using this type of device.
Doesn't seem like much of a workload reduction.
Maybe I just don't have enough toys in my plane. I agree it is cool technology,
and I believe you that it works. I just don't see the benefit to offset the
cost. ...although arguably that could also apply to my entire airplane! ;-)
Paul A. Fisher
RV7A N18PF
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 10:57 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Vertical Power move to Everett, WA and Oshkosh, WI
At 05:24 PM 3/20/2014 Thursday, you wrote:
>--> Avionics-List message posted by: Ralph Finch
>-->
>
>Why did I want the -200? For the same reasons Matt cited. I just don't
>see the benefit of merely replacing some circuit breakers that is
>essentially the role of the VP-X.
I think the biggest downfall of the VP-200 was that potential customers didn't
really understand just how *awesome* the automation functionality is and how it
really works. Many times at fly-ins or other events where I've had an opportunity
to show off the VP-200, fellow homebuilders are in awe of the automation
after I've take a few minutes to explain just how it works and how it significantly
reduces my workload during the various phases of flight. The fact that
the VP-200 knows, based on GPS/RPM/AHRS data exactly what mode of flight that
I'm in - Start/Taxi/Runup/Takeoff/Cruse/Landing - and switches on or off the
electrical circuits that I've pre-programmed for each mode of flight is simply
genius. Not only is the concept certainly revolutionary in the market, but
the VP-200's implementation of it just works and works great. The only external
input that is missing to the logic, IMHO, is the determination of Day vs. Night.
I have to manually turn the position lights o!
n. It seems like either the input from the exiting dimmer electric eye or from
some sort of real time clock could make this happen.
Ralph's idea of adding automation to the VP-x though the use of an external embedded
processor and display is a good one. Maybe when I get the RV-8 back in
the air, I'll start working on something along those lines... :-)
Best regards,
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 200+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore Airport.
Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shaun Dawson <scdawson(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Re: Vertical Power move to Everett, WA and Oshkosh, |
WI
Based on GPS information (position and time), you can know whether you are
in Day or night, no problem, without having to resort to external devices
such as a light sensor (which can break). I would think that sort of thing
would be quite easy.
Shaun
On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Matt Dralle wrote:
> --> RV8-List message posted by: Matt Dralle
>
> At 05:24 PM 3/20/2014 Thursday, you wrote:
> >--> Avionics-List message posted by: Ralph Finch <
> ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.com>
> >
> >Why did I want the -200? For the same reasons Matt cited. I just
> >don't see the benefit of merely replacing some circuit breakers that
> >is essentially the role of the VP-X.
>
>
> I think the biggest downfall of the VP-200 was that potential customers
> didn't really understand just how *awesome* the automation functionality is
> and how it really works. Many times at fly-ins or other events where I've
> had an opportunity to show off the VP-200, fellow homebuilders are in awe
> of the automation after I've take a few minutes to explain just how it
> works and how it significantly reduces my workload during the various
> phases of flight. The fact that the VP-200 knows, based on GPS/RPM/AHRS
> data exactly what mode of flight that I'm in -
> Start/Taxi/Runup/Takeoff/Cruse/Landing - and switches on or off the
> electrical circuits that I've pre-programmed for each mode of flight is
> simply genius. Not only is the concept certainly revolutionary in the
> market, but the VP-200's implementation of it just works and works great.
> The only external input that is missing to the logic, IMHO, is the
> determination of Day vs. Night. I have to manually turn the position
> lights o!
> n. It seems like either the input from the exiting dimmer electric eye
> or from some sort of real time clock could make this happen.
>
> Ralph's idea of adding automation to the VP-x though the use of an
> external embedded processor and display is a good one. Maybe when I get
> the RV-8 back in the air, I'll start working on something along those
> lines... :-)
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 200+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer
> Mode
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ralph Finch <ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Power move to Everett, WA and Oshkosh, WI |
The same could be said for autopilots, GPS navigation, and so on. Not
needed, but a convenience. Furthermore the VP-200 can be set up to
easily provide a separate bus for main alternator or battery failure,
automatically shedding unimportant load and switching on your
alternate battery and/or alternator, so that's a safety feature.
No VP-*** product actually moves flaps, to my knowledge, but they will
prevent movement I think if you are over the maximum flap speed.
On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 9:41 AM, Fisher Paul A.
wrote:
>
> Not to be argumentative, but I still don't get it. I'm all for reducing workload
in critical phases of flight, but I've only got three circuit switches that
I use in that situation - flaps, fuel pump, and landing light wigwag. Everything
else is on at start up and off at shutdown, both of which are low stress,
low workload phases. I'm not turning over control of flaps, so that really
just leaves two circuits that I would want to control using this type of device.
Doesn't seem like much of a workload reduction.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ralph Finch <ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Re: Vertical Power move to Everett, WA and |
Oshkosh, WI
I traded some emails with Marc about the day/night thing a year or two
ago. The way the VP-200 is now, I think we concluded your best bet is
to repurpose the VMC/IMC switch to this use. But yeah, a new feature
for this would be great.
RF
On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Shaun Dawson wrote:
> Based on GPS information (position and time), you can know whether you are
> in Day or night, no problem, without having to resort to external devices
> such as a light sensor (which can break). I would think that sort of thing
> would be quite easy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Brooks <kenbrooks(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How to determine drill bit sharpness? |
The other responders have it right - if you don't think it's cutting through fast
enough, it's probably dull... try a new one. For those of you (like me), always
looking for an excuse to buy another tool, you might invest $50 on a Drill
Doctor bit sharpener. Mine works great and it saves trips to the DIY store
aviation aisle. Just follow the instructions that come with it closely and practice
with a few old broken bits if you have any. The cam action puts a beautiful,
sharp edge on the bit, perfectly beveled. I give it four and a half stars,
and looks swell on the tool shelf.
http://www.drilldoctor.com/drill-sharpeners-and-accessories/drill-sharpeners/drill-doctor-model-350x.html
Ken Brooks
Really Slow RV-8 QB
Pushing to the end!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Luckey <jluckey(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How to determine drill bit sharpness? |
I have a Drill Doctor DD500X and agree w/ Ken - it is very handy.- It is
really great for bits greater than about 3/16 in. (and those are the more e
xpensive bits so being able to re-sharpen them is great).- But I don't ha
ve much luck w/ drills smaller than 3/16 in.=0A=0AWhen it comes to #30 or #
40 drill bits, I buy them in the jobber 5-pack from my local industrial sup
ply.- IIRC it's usually around $1 per bit.- Nothing beats the factory e
dge on an industrial-quality drill bit.=0A=0A-Jeff=0A=0APS - I recommend th
e DD500X even thought it's more expensive (you can find them on sale for ar
ound $100).- It has a jig that makes it quick & easy to position the bit
to be sharpened in the sharpening mandrel.- It only takes a couple of sec
onds to get the bit chucked-up in the mandrel correctly.- I don't think t
he lower models have this feature.- It's worth the extra 50 bucks.=0A=0A
=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Ken Brooks <kenbrooks@chart
er.net>=0ATo: rv-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Friday, March 21, 2014 2:22 PM
=0ASubject: RV-List: Re: How to determine drill bit sharpness?=0A =0A=0A-->
RV-List message posted by: Ken Brooks =0A=0AThe oth
er responders have it right - if you don't think it's cutting through fast
enough, it's probably dull... try a new one.- For those of you (like me),
always looking for an excuse to buy another tool, you might invest $50 on
a Drill Doctor bit sharpener.- Mine works great and it saves trips to the
DIY store aviation aisle.- Just follow the instructions that come with i
t closely and practice with a few old broken bits if you have any.- The c
am action puts a beautiful, sharp edge on the bit, perfectly beveled.- I
give it four and a half stars, and looks swell on the tool shelf.=0Ahttp://
www.drilldoctor.com/drill-sharpeners-and-accessories/drill-sharpeners/drill
-doctor-model-350x.html=0A=0AKen Brooks=0AReally Slow RV-8 QB=0APushing to
===============
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Power move to Everett, WA and Oshkosh, WI |
| From: | John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com> |
I do not consider an AP a convenience. I'm more and more convinced that one should
be in every plane. Safety.
> On Mar 21, 2014, at 10:33 AM, Ralph Finch wrote:
>
>
> The same could be said for autopilots, GPS navigation, and so on. Not
> needed, but a convenience. Furthermore the VP-200 can be set up to
> easily provide a separate bus for main alternator or battery failure,
> automatically shedding unimportant load and switching on your
> alternate battery and/or alternator, so that's a safety feature.
>
> No VP-*** product actually moves flaps, to my knowledge, but they will
> prevent movement I think if you are over the maximum flap speed.
>
> On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 9:41 AM, Fisher Paul A.
> wrote:
>>
>> Not to be argumentative, but I still don't get it. I'm all for reducing workload
in critical phases of flight, but I've only got three circuit switches that
I use in that situation - flaps, fuel pump, and landing light wigwag. Everything
else is on at start up and off at shutdown, both of which are low stress,
low workload phases. I'm not turning over control of flaps, so that really
just leaves two circuits that I would want to control using this type of device.
Doesn't seem like much of a workload reduction.
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "=?utf-8?B?Qm9iIENvbGxpbnM=?=" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFJWLUxpc3Q6IFJlOiBWZXJ0aWNhbCBQb3dlciBtb3ZlIHRvIEV2ZXJldHQs?= |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Judge <bjudge(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Coolers... |
I finally got some pictures of my setrab oil cooler install:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BxGKHfbAGXHxcVNxTTZneTJQNFU&usp=sharing
It is this model:
http://www.lpiracing.com/Setrab-Oil-Cooler-Series-1-10-row-M22-Ports-1071p25418.htm
with a 45 and 90 swivel adapter to AN:
http://www.setrabusa.com/images/fittings/Formatted/AN/22-M22AN08-45.JPG
http://www.setrabusa.com/images/fittings/Formatted/AN/22-M22AN06-90.JPG
It may be that Setrab isn't selling that model any longer, I couldn't find
it on their web page but there appears to an equivalent, 50-107-7612:
http://www.setrabusa.com/products/oilcoolers/powersteering/index.html
Power steering cooler... not sure what the difference is between that and
an engine cooler.
I've got about 900 hrs on this set up, I went this route because I was
getting too much cooling from the standard cooler and the standard cooler
weight caused cracking on the baffles. I also had a DER friend running one
successfully for several hundred hours.
I beefed up the baffles also.
Even now I'm running the cooler with about 1/2 covered with AL tape, so you
could probably go smaller if there was a smaller one.
Bottom line is that Aluminum is a superior material for an oil cooler,
brass which I believe is what the stock cooler is made of.
This is on a parallel valve IO-360, angle valve may be different.
I know Gary mentioned of one failure of these, I have no idea why that one
failed. I've had good luck, in fact I just ticked over to 4 digits on the
hobbs: 1000 hrs as of last weekend.
Bill Judge
RV-8.blogspot.com
N84WJ, RV-8, 1000 hrs
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 8:09 AM, Bill Judge wrote:
> Hey Marty, good to see you're doing well.
>
> Larry, I'll have to dig around for pictures of the install. It wasn't too
> different than the stock, on the baffle install. I did beef up the baffles
> in that corner at the same time as going to the smaller cooler. No cracking
> since I made this change.
>
> The gist of the install was to use 4 pieces of 1x2 inch profile angle,
> each about an inch long. I think the thickness was 0.125.
>
> use those on each corner of the cooler to grab the coolers mounting holes.
> shorter side of the angle on the engine baffles, longer side on the cooler.
>
> In an effort to isolate the cooler from vibration I over sized the holes
> and put in rubber bushings so that the cooler didn't touch anything but the
> bolts and rubber bushings and then I sealed the perimeter with RTV. The RTV
> is probably what is actually holding the cooler in place.
>
> Below my sentence got cut off, I meant to say I didn't do the firewall
> mount because I didn't like the idea of the hoses "working" as the engine
> vibrated.
>
> Bill
>
>
>>
>> From: Marty Helller <marty_away(at)hotmail.com>
>> Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Oil Cooler's...
>>
>> I have one with ~ 4 hours on it. Will sell for an hours worth of fuel
>> plus
>> shipping. Had unrelated cooling issues on first few flights=2C but
>> ever
>> yone pointed to the non- standard configuration (on firewall) so I changed
>> to SW clone on baffling and still hard other problems to resolve.... Now
>> l
>> ife is cool at 175 oil temp and < 330 CHT.
>>
>> Contact off line at 703-732-3264
>>
>> Marty
>> RV-7=2C 150 hrs=2C KSUT
>>
>> From: bjudge(at)gmail.com
>> Subject: RV-List: Re: Oil Cooler's...
>>
>> I just dug back through my emails to find the skinny on the Setrab cooler.
>> I'm pretty sure it is this one:
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.hrpworld.com/store/default/100-series-std-10-row-oil-cooler-3-ta
>> ll-m22-ports.html<http://www.hrpworld.com/store/default/100-series-std-10-row-oil-cooler-3-tall-m22-ports.html>
>>
>>
>> It comes with straight on AN fittings but I couldn't get them to work
>>
>> in the space I had so I used these:
>> http://www.hrpworld.com/store/default/an
>> -10-x-m22-hose-fitting-90.html<http://www.hrpworld.com/store/default/an-10-x-m22-hose-fitting-90.html>
>>
>> These fitting are mega expensive but swivel which takes alot of the
>>
>> stress off the attach points. I went this route for a few reasons:
>>
>> I had the stock cooler completely covered with AL tape and stillcouldn't
>> ge
>> t over 200 F temps.(Too much cooling)
>>
>> My baffles cracked from the weight of the stock cooler.(too much weight)I
>> k
>> new of a rv-6 built by 3 engineers(one is a DER) and they've flown
>>
>> 400 hrs trouble free with this cooler.I didn't do the firewall mount
>> becaus
>> e i didn't want the hoses working with engine movement relative to the
>> firewall.
>>
>> Even still when its cold I can't get over 160 F.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>> On Thu=2C Feb 20=2C 2014 at 7:29 AM=2C Bill Judge
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I've been running a Setrab 10 row for around 750 hrs=2C no problems=2C
>> temp
>> s often run too low and so its half covered with AL tape. It's about 1/3
>> th
>> e size of the standard Vans cooler.
>>
>>
>> They are made of aluminum rather than brass and AL just works better for a
>> heat exchanger.
>>
>> You can get aircraft fittings on them too=2C they even have swivel
>> fittings
>> at 90 and 45 degrees available.
>>
>>
>> Bill
>> N84WJ=2C RV-8=2C 980 hrs
>>
>>
>> rv-8.blogspot.com
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
>>
>> Subject: RV-List: Oil Cooler's...
>>
>>
>> Greetings RV'ers=2C
>>
>>
>> On the RV-8=2C I've got Stewart/Warner 10610R 10 row oil cooler for the
>> IO-
>> 390.
>>
>> It's mounted on the rear baffle and its worked well and kept the oil temps
>> in
>>
>> the low 180's under all conditions.
>>
>>
>> I noticed today=2C that the outside mounting flange that goes next to the
>> b
>> affle
>>
>> is cracked. I suppose I could get it welded or brazed or whatever they do
>> to
>>
>> aluminium=2C but that seems like a hack.
>>
>>
>> Apparently=2C Chief doesn't carry the Stewart/Warner brand anymore and has
>> to different
>>
>> variants of the Aero Classic brand in the 10 Row 10610R compatible unit.
>>
>>
>> One is the "Standard" model for $269:
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.chiefaircraft.com/aircraft/oil-system-filters/oil-cooler
>> s/standard/aec-8000081.html<http://www.chiefaircraft.com/aircraft/oil-system-filters/oil-coolers/standard/aec-8000081.html>
>>
>>
>> The other is the "HE" (High Efficiency) models are $575:
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.chiefaircraft.com/aircraft/oil-system-filters/oil-cooler
>> s/he-series/aec-8001646.html<http://www.chiefaircraft.com/aircraft/oil-system-filters/oil-coolers/he-series/aec-8001646.html>
>>
>>
>> Any thought's on either of these two options? Pros and cons. The HE
>> model
>> s look
>>
>> a lot like the S&W model I have=2C assuming the pictures are accurate.
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the feedback.
>>
>>
>> Matt
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>> Matt Dralle
>>
>>
>> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
>>
>> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
>>
>> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
>>
>> Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
>>
>>
>> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
>>
>> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
>>
>> Status: 200+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete=3B Now In Full Flyer
>> Mode
>>
>>
>> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
>>
>> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
>>
>> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
>>
>> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Coolers... |
| From: | Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
Nice. Looks like a good option. I'm surprised we don't see this used more
often.
On Thursday, March 27, 2014, Bill Judge wrote:
> I finally got some pictures of my setrab oil cooler install:
>
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BxGKHfbAGXHxcVNxTTZneTJQNFU&usp=sharing
>
> It is this model:
>
> http://www.lpiracing.com/Setrab-Oil-Cooler-Series-1-10-row-M22-Ports-1071p25418.htm
>
> with a 45 and 90 swivel adapter to AN:
> http://www.setrabusa.com/images/fittings/Formatted/AN/22-M22AN08-45.JPG
> http://www.setrabusa.com/images/fittings/Formatted/AN/22-M22AN06-90.JPG
>
> It may be that Setrab isn't selling that model any longer, I couldn't find
> it on their web page but there appears to an equivalent, 50-107-7612:
> http://www.setrabusa.com/products/oilcoolers/powersteering/index.html
>
> Power steering cooler... not sure what the difference is between that and
> an engine cooler.
>
> I've got about 900 hrs on this set up, I went this route because I was
> getting too much cooling from the standard cooler and the standard cooler
> weight caused cracking on the baffles. I also had a DER friend running one
> successfully for several hundred hours.
>
> I beefed up the baffles also.
>
> Even now I'm running the cooler with about 1/2 covered with AL tape, so
> you could probably go smaller if there was a smaller one.
>
> Bottom line is that Aluminum is a superior material for an oil cooler,
> brass which I believe is what the stock cooler is made of.
>
> This is on a parallel valve IO-360, angle valve may be different.
>
> I know Gary mentioned of one failure of these, I have no idea why that one
> failed. I've had good luck, in fact I just ticked over to 4 digits on the
> hobbs: 1000 hrs as of last weekend.
>
> Bill Judge
> RV-8.blogspot.com
> N84WJ, RV-8, 1000 hrs
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 8:09 AM, Bill Judge
> > wrote:
>
>> Hey Marty, good to see you're doing well.
>>
>> Larry, I'll have to dig around for pictures of the install. It wasn't too
>> different than the stock, on the baffle install. I did beef up the baffles
>> in that corner at the same time as going to the smaller cooler. No cracking
>> since I made this change.
>>
>> The gist of the install was to use 4 pieces of 1x2 inch profile angle,
>> each about an inch long. I think the thickness was 0.125.
>>
>> use those on each corner of the cooler to grab the coolers mounting
>> holes. shorter side of the angle on the engine baffles, longer side on the
>> cooler.
>>
>> In an effort to isolate the cooler from vibration I over sized the holes
>> and put in rubber bushings so that the cooler didn't touch anything but the
>> bolts and rubber bushings and then I sealed the perimeter with RTV. The RTV
>> is probably what is actually holding the cooler in place.
>>
>> Below my sentence got cut off, I meant to say I didn't do the firewall
>> mount because I didn't like the idea of the hoses "working" as the engine
>> vibrated.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> From: Marty Helller <marty_away(at)hotmail.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','marty_away(at)hotmail.com');>
>>> >
>>> Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Oil Cooler's...
>>>
>>> I have one with ~ 4 hours on it. Will sell for an hours worth of fuel
>>> plus
>>> shipping. Had unrelated cooling issues on first few flights=2C but
>>> ever
>>> yone pointed to the non- standard configuration (on firewall) so I
>>> changed
>>> to SW clone on baffling and still hard other problems to resolve....
>>> Now l
>>> ife is cool at 175 oil temp and < 330 CHT.
>>>
>>> Contact off line at 703-732-3264
>>>
>>> Marty
>>> RV-7=2C 150 hrs=2C KSUT
>>>
>>> From: bjudge(at)gmail.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bjudge(at)gmail.com');>
>>> Subject: RV-List: Re: Oil Cooler's...
>>>
>>> I just dug back through my emails to find the skinny on the Setrab
>>> cooler.
>>> I'm pretty sure it is this one:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.hrpworld.com/store/default/100-series-std-10-row-oil-cooler-3-ta
>>> ll-m22-ports.html<http://www.hrpworld.com/store/default/100-series-std-10-row-oil-cooler-3-tall-m22-ports.html>
>>>
>>>
>>> It comes with straight on AN fittings but I couldn't get them to work
>>>
>>> in the space I had so I used these:
>>> http://www.hrpworld.com/store/default/an
>>> -10-x-m22-hose-fitting-90.html<http://www.hrpworld.com/store/default/an-10-x-m22-hose-fitting-90.html>
>>>
>>> These fitting are mega expensive but swivel which takes alot of the
>>>
>>> stress off the attach points. I went this route for a few reasons:
>>>
>>> I had the stock cooler completely covered with AL tape and stillcouldn't
>>> ge
>>> t over 200 F temps.(Too much cooling)
>>>
>>> My baffles cracked from the weight of the stock cooler.(too much
>>> weight)I k
>>> new of a rv-6 built by 3 engineers(one is a DER) and they've flown
>>>
>>> 400 hrs trouble free with this cooler.I didn't do the firewall mount
>>> becaus
>>> e i didn't want the hoses working with engine movement relative to the
>>> firewall.
>>>
>>> Even still when its cold I can't get over 160 F.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu=2C Feb 20=2C 2014 at 7:29 AM=2C Bill Judge >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I've been running a Setrab 10 row for around 750 hrs=2C no problems=2C
>>> temp
>>> s often run too low and so its half covered with AL tape. It's about 1/3
>>> th
>>> e size of the standard Vans cooler.
>>>
>>>
>>> They are made of aluminum rather than brass and AL just works better for
>>> a
>>> heat exchanger.
>>>
>>> You can get aircraft fittings on them too=2C they even have swivel
>>> fittings
>>> at 90 and 45 degrees available.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill
>>> N84WJ=2C RV-8=2C 980 hrs
>>>
>>>
>>> rv-8.blogspot.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dralle(at)matronics.com');>
>>> >
>>>
>>> Subject: RV-List: Oil Cooler's...
>>>
>>>
>>> Greetings RV'ers=2C
>>>
>>>
>>> On the RV-8=2C I've got Stewart/Warner 10610R 10 row oil cooler for the
>>> IO-
>>> 390.
>>>
>>> It's mounted on the rear baffle and its worked well and kept the oil
>>> temps
>>> in
>>>
>>> the low 180's under all conditions.
>>>
>>>
>>> I noticed today=2C that the outside mounting flange that goes next to
>>> the b
>>> affle
>>>
>>> is cracked. I suppose I could get it welded or brazed or whatever they
>>> do
>>> to
>>>
>>> aluminium=2C but that seems like a hack.
>>>
>>>
>>> Apparently=2C Chief doesn't carry the Stewart/Warner brand anymore and
>>> has
>>> to different
>>>
>>> variants of the Aero Classic brand in the 10 Row 10610R compatible unit.
>>>
>>>
>>> One is the "Standard" model for $269:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.chiefaircraft.com/aircraft/oil-system-filters/oil-cooler
>>> s/standard/aec-8000081.html<http://www.chiefaircraft.com/aircraft/oil-system-filters/oil-coolers/standard/aec-8000081.html>
>>>
>>>
>>> The other is the "HE" (High Efficiency) models are $575:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.chiefaircraft.com/aircraft/oil-system-filters/oil-cooler
>>> s/he-series/aec-8001646.html<http://www.chiefaircraft.com/aircraft/oil-system-filters/oil-coolers/he-series/aec-8001646.html>
>>>
>>>
>>> Any thought's on either of these two options? Pros and cons. The HE
>>> model
>>> s look
>>>
>>> a lot like the S&W model I have=2C assuming the pictures are accurate.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the feedback.
>>>
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> Matt Dralle
>>>
>>>
>>> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
>>>
>>> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
>>>
>>> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
>>>
>>> Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
>>>
>>>
>>> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
>>>
>>> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
>>>
>>> Status: 200+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete=3B Now In Full
>>> Flyer
>>> Mode
>>>
>>>
>>> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
>>>
>>> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
>>>
>>> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
>>>
>>> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>>>
>>> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
--
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Coolers... |
Probably because most RVers are almost as conservative as spam can
drivers when it comes to changing stuff in front of the firewall. :-)
One more valid reason is that they are only 2" thick, and 4" is a better
match for RV speeds. The thinner one *theoretically* will flow a lot
more air, potentially meaning more cooling drag. If the thinner unit
appeals to you, read on.
For those who are interested in this type of cooler, they can be had for
a lot less money and in many different sizes, if you can use fixed A/N
fittings. This cooler:
http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CXR&Product_Code=OC-248-30-AN10&Category_Code=RDOC
has been flying on a Mazda 3rotor (~280HP) on an RV-8 for several years.
It's available from that vendor through their ebay store at:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/160578859562?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
for $79.00.
If you explore the CX Racing site, you'll find a 30 row, 28 row, 25 row,
19 row, etc. They are all usually available through the ebay store for
less money than the price listed on the CX Racing site.
This series is ~10" center to center on the fittings; ~13" overall.
Height varies depending on the number of rows. They also sell some with
smaller spacing between the fittings.
If anyone's interested, I've got a 19 row that I won't be using on my
rotary installation.
On 3/27/2014 12:41 PM, Larry Bowen wrote:
> Nice. Looks like a good option. I'm surprised we don't see this used
> more often.
>
>
> On Thursday, March 27, 2014, Bill Judge > wrote:
>
> I finally got some pictures of my setrab oil cooler install:
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BxGKHfbAGXHxcVNxTTZneTJQNFU&usp=sharing
>
> It is this model:
> http://www.lpiracing.com/Setrab-Oil-Cooler-Series-1-10-row-M22-Ports-1071p25418.htm
>
> with a 45 and 90 swivel adapter to AN:
> http://www.setrabusa.com/images/fittings/Formatted/AN/22-M22AN08-45.JPG
> http://www.setrabusa.com/images/fittings/Formatted/AN/22-M22AN06-90.JPG
>
> It may be that Setrab isn't selling that model any longer, I
> couldn't find it on their web page but there appears to an
> equivalent, 50-107-7612:
> http://www.setrabusa.com/products/oilcoolers/powersteering/index.html
>
> Power steering cooler... not sure what the difference is between
> that and an engine cooler.
>
> I've got about 900 hrs on this set up, I went this route because I
> was getting too much cooling from the standard cooler and the
> standard cooler weight caused cracking on the baffles. I also had
> a DER friend running one successfully for several hundred hours.
>
> I beefed up the baffles also.
>
> Even now I'm running the cooler with about 1/2 covered with AL
> tape, so you could probably go smaller if there was a smaller one.
>
> Bottom line is that Aluminum is a superior material for an oil
> cooler, brass which I believe is what the stock cooler is made of.
>
> This is on a parallel valve IO-360, angle valve may be different.
>
> I know Gary mentioned of one failure of these, I have no idea why
> that one failed. I've had good luck, in fact I just ticked over to
> 4 digits on the hobbs: 1000 hrs as of last weekend.
>
> Bill Judge
> RV-8.blogspot.com <http://RV-8.blogspot.com>
> N84WJ, RV-8, 1000 hrs
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 8:09 AM, Bill Judge > wrote:
>
> Hey Marty, good to see you're doing well.
>
> Larry, I'll have to dig around for pictures of the install. It
> wasn't too different than the stock, on the baffle install. I
> did beef up the baffles in that corner at the same time as
> going to the smaller cooler. No cracking since I made this change.
>
> The gist of the install was to use 4 pieces of 1x2 inch
> profile angle, each about an inch long. I think the thickness
> was 0.125.
>
> use those on each corner of the cooler to grab the coolers
> mounting holes. shorter side of the angle on the engine
> baffles, longer side on the cooler.
>
> In an effort to isolate the cooler from vibration I over sized
> the holes and put in rubber bushings so that the cooler didn't
> touch anything but the bolts and rubber bushings and then I
> sealed the perimeter with RTV. The RTV is probably what is
> actually holding the cooler in place.
>
> Below my sentence got cut off, I meant to say I didn't do the
> firewall mount because I didn't like the idea of the hoses
> "working" as the engine vibrated.
>
> Bill
>
>
> From: Marty Helller <marty_away(at)hotmail.com
> >
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Oil Cooler's...
>
> I have one with ~ 4 hours on it. Will sell for an hours
> worth of fuel plus
> shipping. Had unrelated cooling issues on first few
> flights=2C but ever
> yone pointed to the non- standard configuration (on
> firewall) so I changed
> to SW clone on baffling and still hard other problems to
> resolve.... Now l
> ife is cool at 175 oil temp and < 330 CHT.
>
> Contact off line at 703-732-3264
>
> Marty
> RV-7=2C 150 hrs=2C KSUT
>
> From: bjudge(at)gmail.com
>
> Subject: RV-List: Re: Oil Cooler's...
>
> I just dug back through my emails to find the skinny on
> the Setrab cooler.
> I'm pretty sure it is this one:
>
>
> http://www.hrpworld.com/store/default/100-series-std-10-row-oil-cooler-3-ta
> ll-m22-ports.html
> <http://www.hrpworld.com/store/default/100-series-std-10-row-oil-cooler-3-tall-m22-ports.html>
>
>
> It comes with straight on AN fittings but I couldn't get
> them to work
>
> in the space I had so I used
> these:http://www.hrpworld.com/store/default/an
> -10-x-m22-hose-fitting-90.html
> <http://www.hrpworld.com/store/default/an-10-x-m22-hose-fitting-90.html>
>
> These fitting are mega expensive but swivel which takes
> alot of the
>
> stress off the attach points. I went this route for a few
> reasons:
>
> I had the stock cooler completely covered with AL tape and
> stillcouldn't ge
> t over 200 F temps.(Too much cooling)
>
> My baffles cracked from the weight of the stock
> cooler.(too much weight)I k
> new of a rv-6 built by 3 engineers(one is a DER) and
> they've flown
>
> 400 hrs trouble free with this cooler.I didn't do the
> firewall mount becaus
> e i didn't want the hoses working with engine movement
> relative to the firewall.
>
> Even still when its cold I can't get over 160 F.
>
> Bill
>
>
> On Thu=2C Feb 20=2C 2014 at 7:29 AM=2C Bill Judge
> > wrote:
>
>
> I've been running a Setrab 10 row for around 750 hrs=2C no
> problems=2C temp
> s often run too low and so its half covered with AL tape.
> It's about 1/3 th
> e size of the standard Vans cooler.
>
>
> They are made of aluminum rather than brass and AL just
> works better for a
> heat exchanger.
>
> You can get aircraft fittings on them too=2C they even
> have swivel fittings
> at 90 and 45 degrees available.
>
>
> Bill
> N84WJ=2C RV-8=2C 980 hrs
>
>
> rv-8.blogspot.com <http://rv-8.blogspot.com>
>
>
>
> From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com
> >
>
> Subject: RV-List: Oil Cooler's...
>
>
> Greetings RV'ers=2C
>
>
> On the RV-8=2C I've got Stewart/Warner 10610R 10 row oil
> cooler for the IO-
> 390.
>
> It's mounted on the rear baffle and its worked well and
> kept the oil temps
> in
>
> the low 180's under all conditions.
>
>
> I noticed today=2C that the outside mounting flange that
> goes next to the b
> affle
>
> is cracked. I suppose I could get it welded or brazed or
> whatever they do
> to
>
> aluminium=2C but that seems like a hack.
>
>
> Apparently=2C Chief doesn't carry the Stewart/Warner brand
> anymore and has
> to different
>
> variants of the Aero Classic brand in the 10 Row 10610R
> compatible unit.
>
>
> One is the "Standard" model for $269:
>
>
> http://www.chiefaircraft.com/aircraft/oil-system-filters/oil-cooler
> s/standard/aec-8000081.html
> <http://www.chiefaircraft.com/aircraft/oil-system-filters/oil-coolers/standard/aec-8000081.html>
>
>
> The other is the "HE" (High Efficiency) models are $575:
>
>
> http://www.chiefaircraft.com/aircraft/oil-system-filters/oil-cooler
> s/he-series/aec-8001646.html
> <http://www.chiefaircraft.com/aircraft/oil-system-filters/oil-coolers/he-series/aec-8001646.html>
>
>
> Any thought's on either of these two options? Pros and
> cons. The HE model
> s look
>
> a lot like the S&W model I have=2C assuming the pictures
> are accurate.
>
>
> Thanks for the feedback.
>
>
> Matt
>
>
> -
>
> Matt Dralle
>
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
>
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8
> Construction Log
>
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
>
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube
> Channel
>
> Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After
> Landing Mishap...
>
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
>
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
>
> Status: 200+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete=3B
> Now In Full Flyer
> Mode
>
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
>
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at
> the Livermore
>
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions.
> Archives too!
>
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
> *
>
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> --
> --
> Larry Bowen
> Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Coolers... |
| From: | "Laird" <owens.laird(at)gmail.com> |
Gary mentioned a failure in the past of the setrab oil cooler. That was me back
in June 2000. There was a bunch of discussion then about it then. Would recommend
searching that time frame in the archives. I'll copy my original post.
Personally, I wouldn't recommend anyone to use one, but that's the great thing
about homebuilts. You can do whatever YOU want.
Laird
(and yes, I shouldn't have over flown a perfectly good airport, but that's what
I did as the oil temp and pressure were still in the green).
>From June 2000
#67570
Date: Jun 02, 2000
From: "Owens, Laird"
Subject: Setrab Oil Cooler Failure (long)
Hi all,
Yesterday on the 3rd flight of my RV-6, I had an interesting thing happen. I was
out to break in my new 0-360 (and have a little fun) and out about 30nm from
the departure airport, 5500', 2550 rpm just cruising along about ready to turn
for a run back. I was going to do this back and forth thing for 2 hours to
let the motor work a little.
I have a 16 row Setrab oil cooler mounted behind the #4 cyl on the baffle. Setrab
oil coolers had been recommended in the past as a low cost alternative to
S/W's (see post from archives below). Oil temps have been consistent at 225 deg
F (75 deg F ambient at 0 MSL). I was hoping that would come down a little once
the engine broke in. Oil pressure had been stable at 90 psi.
Just before I was going to turn, with about 3 hrs total on the tach, I noticed
a little puddle of oil on the floorboard in front of the rudder peddles. That's
weird.....I don't have any oil lines in under the dash.....OH @#$@! Oil must
be leaking in the engine compartment and seeping thru the wire pass thru's.
I looked up just in time to see oil starting to come out of the upper cowling
at the fuse/cowl junction. Oil pressure had dropped 5 psi, but was stable,
and temp was still 225. First, pull the power to 1800 and think.
OK....decision time. I was just north of Valencia, about 15nm from Whiteman or
Van Nuys, and about 17nm out of Santa Paula (gawd I love that GPS). Lots of
houses between me Whiteman, and a river bed between me and Santa Paula.....let's
see, if the engine fails, I can land on a house, or a river bed. That's a
no brainer. And if I can make Santa Paula, Camarillo is just around the corner.
Maybe I can make it all the way back to home base......
I keep the power low, watch the oil pressure and temp and head for Santa Paula
decending at about 200 fpm to keep the speed up while the motors still running.
I pass over Santa Paula at 2500' with good oil pressure so I decide to press on
to Camarillo. Tower was helpful getting me on the ground quickly without having
to declare the "E" word.
I taxied back to the hangar and shut down. I climbed out to find oil dripping
from the lower firewall to the tailwheel, on the side of the fuse and on the wing
root and no oil on the dipstick. Guess it lost a little more oil than I thought,
duh. What a mess in the "engine compartment formally know as clean".
I pulled the cowl and cleaned up the airplane up (I'm sure the EPA would like to
talk to me bout now....).
The oil lines were tight, that only leaves the oil cooler. Pulled that and put
an air nozzle to it. Sounds like a big hole up where the tubes get welded to
the main plenum.
Hello, Van's......Can I order a Positech oil cooler and have it delivered over
night? Thank you.
So much for trying to save a couple of bucks on the cooler.
Just thought anyone out there with one of these might like to know about it. I
hadn't seen any failure reports in the archives.
Laird RV-6 (with a well lubed paint job)
SoCal
>From the Archives:
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 16, 1996
Subject: Re: Oil cooler location & low cost option
Hi all:
PLEASE don't think you need one of those expensive coolers on your bird! Rob
Lee will tell you, and so will I.
I use a small & inexpensive ($65) cooler (with male -8 AN fittings already
installed) from TMR, Inc in Orange, Calif. (714) 771-1348. Talk to Mike and
tell him I sent you ( he'll only charge you an extra 10%). The 19 row ($70
"Setrab" brand- malmo in Sweden) unit I use on my Rocket keeps the temps on
the 540 to 185F in cruise, and I think I used a 13 row on the -4, and it was
usually too much. Rob Lee has the exact part # for the 320/360 unit. How
about posting it, along with installation tips, Rob?
I mounted mine on the back baffle, on the left side. I used the
expanding-slowing air/increasing pressure idea, and the inlet to the cooler
is sort of a reverse funnel.
Check six!
Mark Frederick
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421186#421186
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Judge <bjudge(at)gmail.com> |
Yikes! Glad that hasn't happened to me!
I've been blissfully running around for 900 or so hrs.
I did a little looking around and it's been said that the SWs are tested to
180 PSI(off of VAF) and the Setrabs from what I can find are only tested to
145 PSI, max operating pressure is 174 PSI and design limit pressure is 536
PSI.
http://www.setrab.com/products/proline/technical-specifications/std/
1 Bar = 14.5 Psi.
So 90 PSI shouldn't have been a problem but evidently it was. There is also
some speculation that on startup Lyc Oil pressure surges very high, I could
see this especially when it's cold. I'm in SoCal now but I was in DC for 4
years before that and started up on some 10 F mornings with no issues.
I run about 72 PSI, 60 PSI would be better. Recommended range is 50-95 PSI
according to the vantage engine manual which is pretty much the XP-360 that
I have.
Did it fail where the lines connect? Do you think there was any binding?
I hadn't thought about the airflow difference. I've got 1/2 of it taped
over anyway so it probably doesn't much matter.
Bill
>
>
> Subject: RV-List: Re: Oil Coolers...
> From: "Laird" <owens.laird(at)gmail.com>
>
>
> Gary mentioned a failure in the past of the setrab oil cooler. That was
> me back
> in June 2000. There was a bunch of discussion then about it then. Would
> recommend
> searching that time frame in the archives. I'll copy my original post.
>
> Personally, I wouldn't recommend anyone to use one, but that's the great
> thing
> about homebuilts. You can do whatever YOU want.
>
> Laird
> (and yes, I shouldn't have over flown a perfectly good airport, but that's
> what
> I did as the oil temp and pressure were still in the green).
>
> >From June 2000
>
> #67570
> Date: Jun 02, 2000
> From: "Owens, Laird"
> Subject: Setrab Oil Cooler Failure (long)
>
> Hi all,
>
> Yesterday on the 3rd flight of my RV-6, I had an interesting thing happen.
> I was
> out to break in my new 0-360 (and have a little fun) and out about 30nm
> from
> the departure airport, 5500', 2550 rpm just cruising along about ready to
> turn
> for a run back. I was going to do this back and forth thing for 2 hours to
> let the motor work a little.
>
> I have a 16 row Setrab oil cooler mounted behind the #4 cyl on the baffle.
> Setrab
> oil coolers had been recommended in the past as a low cost alternative to
> S/W's (see post from archives below). Oil temps have been consistent at
> 225 deg
> F (75 deg F ambient at 0 MSL). I was hoping that would come down a little
> once
> the engine broke in. Oil pressure had been stable at 90 psi.
>
> Just before I was going to turn, with about 3 hrs total on the tach, I
> noticed
> a little puddle of oil on the floorboard in front of the rudder peddles.
> That's
> weird.....I don't have any oil lines in under the dash.....OH @#$@! Oil
> must
> be leaking in the engine compartment and seeping thru the wire pass thru's.
> I looked up just in time to see oil starting to come out of the upper
> cowling
> at the fuse/cowl junction. Oil pressure had dropped 5 psi, but was stable,
> and temp was still 225. First, pull the power to 1800 and think.
>
> OK....decision time. I was just north of Valencia, about 15nm from
> Whiteman or
> Van Nuys, and about 17nm out of Santa Paula (gawd I love that GPS). Lots
> of
> houses between me Whiteman, and a river bed between me and Santa
> Paula.....let's
> see, if the engine fails, I can land on a house, or a river bed. That's a
> no brainer. And if I can make Santa Paula, Camarillo is just around the
> corner.
> Maybe I can make it all the way back to home base......
>
> I keep the power low, watch the oil pressure and temp and head for Santa
> Paula
> decending at about 200 fpm to keep the speed up while the motors still
> running.
>
> I pass over Santa Paula at 2500' with good oil pressure so I decide to
> press on
> to Camarillo. Tower was helpful getting me on the ground quickly without
> having
> to declare the "E" word.
>
> I taxied back to the hangar and shut down. I climbed out to find oil
> dripping
> from the lower firewall to the tailwheel, on the side of the fuse and on
> the wing
> root and no oil on the dipstick. Guess it lost a little more oil than I
> thought,
> duh. What a mess in the "engine compartment formally know as clean".
>
> I pulled the cowl and cleaned up the airplane up (I'm sure the EPA would
> like to
> talk to me bout now....).
>
> The oil lines were tight, that only leaves the oil cooler. Pulled that
> and put
> an air nozzle to it. Sounds like a big hole up where the tubes get welded
> to
> the main plenum.
>
> Hello, Van's......Can I order a Positech oil cooler and have it delivered
> over
> night? Thank you.
>
> So much for trying to save a couple of bucks on the cooler.
>
> Just thought anyone out there with one of these might like to know about
> it. I
> hadn't seen any failure reports in the archives.
>
> Laird RV-6 (with a well lubed paint job)
> SoCal
>
> >From the Archives:
>
> From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
> Subject: Re: Oil cooler location & low cost option
> Hi all:
>
> PLEASE don't think you need one of those expensive coolers on your bird!
> Rob
> Lee will tell you, and so will I.
> I use a small & inexpensive ($65) cooler (with male -8 AN fittings already
> installed) from TMR, Inc in Orange, Calif. (714) 771-1348. Talk to Mike
> and
> tell him I sent you ( he'll only charge you an extra 10%). The 19 row ($70
> "Setrab" brand- malmo in Sweden) unit I use on my Rocket keeps the temps on
> the 540 to 185F in cruise, and I think I used a 13 row on the -4, and it
> was
> usually too much. Rob Lee has the exact part # for the 320/360 unit. How
> about posting it, along with installation tips, Rob?
>
> I mounted mine on the back baffle, on the left side. I used the
> expanding-slowing air/increasing pressure idea, and the inlet to the cooler
> is sort of a reverse funnel.
>
> Check six!
> Mark Frederick
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421186#421186
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV 10 Empanage for sale |
| From: | Richard Leach <papadaddyo(at)gmail.com> |
Unfortunately due to the economic situation I am unable to complete my
project. I have an RV10 empenage 90% complete. I have attached pictures
and if you are interested and will be at sun - n - fun I live nearby and
can make arrangements for you to see it. I'm asking $2500.
R Leach
Rick.leach@polk-fl.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
| Subject: | Engine out over KOCF |
Fellow RVs,
Monday afternoon at 7000 ft. right over KOCF on our way to Sun-n-Fun I had
the opportunity to put all that engine-out training to work. The good news
first: This was the best case possible, no one hurt, no airplane damage,
flew the plane, declared emergency, landed on the paved runway, made the
first taxiway. Guardian angle working overtime!!
Now for the important details that I believe can have a positive effect on
others building or flying RV's.
Root cause of the engine failure was that the filtered airbox came off the
throttle body, wedged under the intake portion of the throttle body and
disrupted the airflow through the metering venturi. This caused the mixture
to go way out of wack as the engine went to an extreme rich condition, I saw
fuel flow rates pegged at >30 gph as soon as the event occurred.
My airplane is an RV-10 with a stock engine install and a stock cowling. I
have the Airflow Performance fuel injection system with a vertical mount
FM-200 fuel servo. This is the critical issue. The FM-200 uses an aluminum
clamping doughnut to retain the filtered airbox assembly. This system does
not use safety-wired bolts on the filtered side of the airbox, just this
clamping doughnut. If the doughnut looses it's grip on the throttle body the
whole filtered airbox can slide downwards and fall off, in this case that is
exactly what happened. When we pulled the top cowling off, there in the
bottom sat the entire filtered airbox, clamping doughnut and all.
Now for the fix: The filtered airbox bolts are located right underneath the
mounting studs for the throttle body assembly. I simply replaced these bolts
with drilled head bolts and made some drilled coupling nuts to put on the
throttle body studs, there was plenty of extra threads exposed on these
studs so I didn't have to make any changes to the studs or the nuts that
hold the throttle body in place. Then just safety wire the whole thing
together. I used 0.040 wire to tie each filtered airbox bolt up to the
mounting studs. Below are pictures of the drilled nuts and the final
installation.
Obviously I would highly recommend that if you have an Airflow Performance
fuel injection system with a vertically mounted fuel servo you take a look
at your installation and consider adding some securing means to ensure this
thing can't come apart on your airplane. They key issue is that disrupting
the airflow inside the fuel servo can make the engine STOP RUNNING!
Lastly, I've collected the flight data out of my AFS EFIS system which I
just happened to have running at 2 second intervals. Its been very
instructive to see exactly how the whole event played out. I could see my
various attempts to get the engine to run properly by changing throttle
positions and the hopeless lack of actual power. You could see the excess
fuel just crater the EGTs, and now in hind sight I may have been able to get
some power back if I had the insight to try and close the mixture radically.
However, I can say with confidence my total focus after about 1 or so
minutes of trying to get power was on flying the plane to a safe landing....
mission accomplished.
Pictures attached are of the drilled retention nuts and the updated
installation.
Bob Newman
N541RV 200 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine out over KOCF |
Great work, Bob. I'm happy to hear you did everything by the
book--including PRACTICE.
And, I don't think that FAB is going anywhere any time soon!
Blue Skies,
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Bob-tcw wrote:
> Fellow RV=99s,
>
> Monday afternoon at 7000 ft. right over KOCF on our way to Sun-n-Fun I ha
d
> the opportunity to put all that engine-out training to work. The good new
s
> first: This was the best case possible, no one hurt, no airplane damage,
> flew the plane, declared emergency, landed on the paved runway, made the
> first taxiway. Guardian angle working overtime!!
>
> Now for the important details that I believe can have a positive effect o
n
> others building or flying RV's.
>
> Root cause of the engine failure was that the filtered airbox came off th
e
> throttle body, wedged under the intake portion of the throttle body and
> disrupted the airflow through the metering venturi. This caused the mixtu
re
> to go way out of wack as the engine went to an extreme rich condition, I
> saw fuel flow rates pegged at >30 gph as soon as the event occurred.
>
> My airplane is an RV-10 with a stock engine install and a stock cowling.
I
> have the Airflow Performance fuel injection system with a vertical mount
> FM-200 fuel servo. This is the critical issue. The FM-200 uses an aluminu
m
> clamping doughnut to retain the filtered airbox assembly. This system doe
s
> not use safety-wired bolts on the filtered side of the airbox, just this
> clamping doughnut. If the doughnut looses it's grip on the throttle body
> the whole filtered airbox can slide downwards and fall off, in this case
> that is exactly what happened. When we pulled the top cowling off, there
in
> the bottom sat the entire filtered airbox, clamping doughnut and all.
>
> Now for the fix: The filtered airbox bolts are located right underneath
> the mounting studs for the throttle body assembly. I simply replaced thes
e
> bolts with drilled head bolts and made some drilled coupling nuts to put
on
> the throttle body studs, there was plenty of extra threads exposed on the
se
> studs so I didn't have to make any changes to the studs or the nuts that
> hold the throttle body in place. Then just safety wire the whole thing
> together. I used 0.040 wire to tie each filtered airbox bolt up to the
> mounting studs. Below are pictures of the drilled nuts and the final
> installation.
>
> Obviously I would highly recommend that if you have an Airflow Performanc
e
> fuel injection system with a vertically mounted fuel servo you take a loo
k
> at your installation and consider adding some securing means to ensure th
is
> thing can't come apart on your airplane. They key issue is that disruptin
g
> the airflow inside the fuel servo can make the engine STOP RUNNING!
>
> Lastly, I've collected the flight data out of my AFS EFIS system which I
> just happened to have running at 2 second intervals. Its been very
> instructive to see exactly how the whole event played out. I could see my
> various attempts to get the engine to run properly by changing throttle
> positions and the hopeless lack of actual power. You could see the excess
> fuel just crater the EGTs, and now in hind sight I may have been able to
> get some power back if I had the insight to try and close the mixture
> radically. However, I can say with confidence my total focus after about
1
> or so minutes of trying to get power was on flying the plane to a safe
> landing.... mission accomplished.
>
>
> Pictures attached are of the drilled retention nuts and the updated
> installation.
>
>
> Bob Newman
> N541RV 200 hrs
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bret Smith" <smithhb(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Engine out over KOCF |
Bob, really, REALLY great to hear you made a safe landing! I have the AFS system
on my IO-360 RV-9 but the setup is different. Have you called Don to discuss?
Bret Smith
N16BL
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob-tcw
Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 6:58 PM
Subject: RV-List: Engine out over KOCF
Fellow RVs,
Monday afternoon at 7000 ft. right over KOCF on our way to Sun-n-Fun I had the
opportunity to put all that engine-out training to work. The good news
first: This was the best case possible, no one hurt, no airplane damage, flew the
plane, declared emergency, landed on the paved runway, made the first taxiway.
Guardian angle working overtime!!
Now for the important details that I believe can have a positive effect on others
building or flying RV's.
Root cause of the engine failure was that the filtered airbox came off the throttle
body, wedged under the intake portion of the throttle body and disrupted
the airflow through the metering venturi. This caused the mixture to go way out
of wack as the engine went to an extreme rich condition, I saw fuel flow rates
pegged at >30 gph as soon as the event occurred.
My airplane is an RV-10 with a stock engine install and a stock cowling. I have
the Airflow Performance fuel injection system with a vertical mount
FM-200 fuel servo. This is the critical issue. The FM-200 uses an aluminum clamping
doughnut to retain the filtered airbox assembly. This system does not use
safety-wired bolts on the filtered side of the airbox, just this clamping doughnut.
If the doughnut looses it's grip on the throttle body the whole filtered
airbox can slide downwards and fall off, in this case that is exactly what happened.
When we pulled the top cowling off, there in the bottom sat the entire
filtered airbox, clamping doughnut and all.
Now for the fix: The filtered airbox bolts are located right underneath the mounting
studs for the throttle body assembly. I simply replaced these bolts with
drilled head bolts and made some drilled coupling nuts to put on the throttle
body studs, there was plenty of extra threads exposed on these studs so I didn't
have to make any changes to the studs or the nuts that hold the throttle body
in place. Then just safety wire the whole thing together. I used 0.040 wire
to tie each filtered airbox bolt up to the mounting studs. Below are pictures
of the drilled nuts and the final installation.
Obviously I would highly recommend that if you have an Airflow Performance fuel
injection system with a vertically mounted fuel servo you take a look at your
installation and consider adding some securing means to ensure this thing can't
come apart on your airplane. They key issue is that disrupting the airflow
inside the fuel servo can make the engine STOP RUNNING!
Lastly, I've collected the flight data out of my AFS EFIS system which I just happened
to have running at 2 second intervals. Its been very instructive to see
exactly how the whole event played out. I could see my various attempts to get
the engine to run properly by changing throttle positions and the hopeless
lack of actual power. You could see the excess fuel just crater the EGTs, and
now in hind sight I may have been able to get some power back if I had the insight
to try and close the mixture radically.
However, I can say with confidence my total focus after about 1 or so minutes of
trying to get power was on flying the plane to a safe landing....
mission accomplished.
Pictures attached are of the drilled retention nuts and the updated installation.
Bob Newman
N541RV 200 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine out over KOCF |
| From: | Tcwtech <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
I did contact Don at AFP. He said he hadn't heard of an airbox falling off and
that the primary problem is that the vans cowling snout is too tight to the
air box. He also suggested that some have come up with ways to secure the fab.
That's about it.
Bob
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 4, 2014, at 8:08 PM, "Bret Smith" wrote:
>
> Bob, really, REALLY great to hear you made a safe landing! I have the AFS system
on my IO-360 RV-9 but the setup is different. Have you called Don to discuss?
>
> Bret Smith
> N16BL
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob-tcw
> Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 6:58 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Engine out over KOCF
>
> Fellow RVs,
>
> Monday afternoon at 7000 ft. right over KOCF on our way to Sun-n-Fun I had the
opportunity to put all that engine-out training to work. The good news
> first: This was the best case possible, no one hurt, no airplane damage, flew
the plane, declared emergency, landed on the paved runway, made the first taxiway.
Guardian angle working overtime!!
>
> Now for the important details that I believe can have a positive effect on others
building or flying RV's.
>
> Root cause of the engine failure was that the filtered airbox came off the throttle
body, wedged under the intake portion of the throttle body and disrupted
the airflow through the metering venturi. This caused the mixture to go way
out of wack as the engine went to an extreme rich condition, I saw fuel flow rates
pegged at >30 gph as soon as the event occurred.
>
> My airplane is an RV-10 with a stock engine install and a stock cowling. I have
the Airflow Performance fuel injection system with a vertical mount
> FM-200 fuel servo. This is the critical issue. The FM-200 uses an aluminum clamping
doughnut to retain the filtered airbox assembly. This system does not use
safety-wired bolts on the filtered side of the airbox, just this clamping doughnut.
If the doughnut looses it's grip on the throttle body the whole filtered
airbox can slide downwards and fall off, in this case that is exactly what
happened. When we pulled the top cowling off, there in the bottom sat the entire
filtered airbox, clamping doughnut and all.
>
> Now for the fix: The filtered airbox bolts are located right underneath the mounting
studs for the throttle body assembly. I simply replaced these bolts with
drilled head bolts and made some drilled coupling nuts to put on the throttle
body studs, there was plenty of extra threads exposed on these studs so I didn't
have to make any changes to the studs or the nuts that hold the throttle
body in place. Then just safety wire the whole thing together. I used 0.040 wire
to tie each filtered airbox bolt up to the mounting studs. Below are pictures
of the drilled nuts and the final installation.
>
> Obviously I would highly recommend that if you have an Airflow Performance fuel
injection system with a vertically mounted fuel servo you take a look at your
installation and consider adding some securing means to ensure this thing can't
come apart on your airplane. They key issue is that disrupting the airflow
inside the fuel servo can make the engine STOP RUNNING!
>
> Lastly, I've collected the flight data out of my AFS EFIS system which I just
happened to have running at 2 second intervals. Its been very instructive to
see exactly how the whole event played out. I could see my various attempts to
get the engine to run properly by changing throttle positions and the hopeless
lack of actual power. You could see the excess fuel just crater the EGTs, and
now in hind sight I may have been able to get some power back if I had the insight
to try and close the mixture radically.
> However, I can say with confidence my total focus after about 1 or so minutes
of trying to get power was on flying the plane to a safe landing....
> mission accomplished.
>
>
> Pictures attached are of the drilled retention nuts and the updated installation.
>
>
> Bob Newman
> N541RV 200 hrs
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick & Vicki Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine out over KOCF |
Great job Bob! Thanks for the report.
Dick Sipp
RV-10 535 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob-tcw
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2014 6:58 PM
Subject: RV-List: Engine out over KOCF
Fellow RVs,
Monday afternoon at 7000 ft. right over KOCF on our way to Sun-n-Fun I had
the opportunity to put all that engine-out training to work. The good news
first: This was the best case possible, no one hurt, no airplane damage,
flew the plane, declared emergency, landed on the paved runway, made the
first taxiway. Guardian angle working overtime!!
Now for the important details that I believe can have a positive effect on
others building or flying RV's.
Root cause of the engine failure was that the filtered airbox came off the
throttle body, wedged under the intake portion of the throttle body and
disrupted the airflow through the metering venturi. This caused the mixture
to go way out of wack as the engine went to an extreme rich condition, I saw
fuel flow rates pegged at >30 gph as soon as the event occurred.
My airplane is an RV-10 with a stock engine install and a stock cowling. I
have the Airflow Performance fuel injection system with a vertical mount
FM-200 fuel servo. This is the critical issue. The FM-200 uses an aluminum
clamping doughnut to retain the filtered airbox assembly. This system does
not use safety-wired bolts on the filtered side of the airbox, just this
clamping doughnut. If the doughnut looses it's grip on the throttle body the
whole filtered airbox can slide downwards and fall off, in this case that is
exactly what happened. When we pulled the top cowling off, there in the
bottom sat the entire filtered airbox, clamping doughnut and all.
Now for the fix: The filtered airbox bolts are located right underneath the
mounting studs for the throttle body assembly. I simply replaced these bolts
with drilled head bolts and made some drilled coupling nuts to put on the
throttle body studs, there was plenty of extra threads exposed on these
studs so I didn't have to make any changes to the studs or the nuts that
hold the throttle body in place. Then just safety wire the whole thing
together. I used 0.040 wire to tie each filtered airbox bolt up to the
mounting studs. Below are pictures of the drilled nuts and the final
installation.
Obviously I would highly recommend that if you have an Airflow Performance
fuel injection system with a vertically mounted fuel servo you take a look
at your installation and consider adding some securing means to ensure this
thing can't come apart on your airplane. They key issue is that disrupting
the airflow inside the fuel servo can make the engine STOP RUNNING!
Lastly, I've collected the flight data out of my AFS EFIS system which I
just happened to have running at 2 second intervals. Its been very
instructive to see exactly how the whole event played out. I could see my
various attempts to get the engine to run properly by changing throttle
positions and the hopeless lack of actual power. You could see the excess
fuel just crater the EGTs, and now in hind sight I may have been able to get
some power back if I had the insight to try and close the mixture radically.
However, I can say with confidence my total focus after about 1 or so
minutes of trying to get power was on flying the plane to a safe landing....
mission accomplished.
Pictures attached are of the drilled retention nuts and the updated
installation.
Bob Newman
N541RV 200 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Engine out over KOCF |
Bob,
Great job and great report. No photos attached, however. Any chance of a
url or a web site to show the photos?
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB - with a vertical mount AFP fuel injection.
San Antonio
-----------------------------------------------------
> From: "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Engine out over KOCF
>
> Fellow RVs,
>
> Monday afternoon at 7000 ft. right over KOCF on our way to Sun-n-Fun I
had
> the opportunity to put all that engine-out training to work. The good
news
> first: This was the best case possible, no one hurt, no airplane
damage,
> flew the plane, declared emergency, landed on the paved runway, made
the
> first taxiway. Guardian angle working overtime!!
>
> Now for the important details that I believe can have a positive
effect on
> others building or flying RV's.
>
> Root cause of the engine failure was that the filtered airbox came off
the
> throttle body, wedged under the intake portion of the throttle body
and
> disrupted the airflow through the metering venturi. This caused the
mixture
> to go way out of wack as the engine went to an extreme rich condition,
I saw
> fuel flow rates pegged at >30 gph as soon as the event occurred.
>
> My airplane is an RV-10 with a stock engine install and a stock
cowling. I
> have the Airflow Performance fuel injection system with a vertical
mount
> FM-200 fuel servo. This is the critical issue. The FM-200 uses an
aluminum
> clamping doughnut to retain the filtered airbox assembly. This system
does
> not use safety-wired bolts on the filtered side of the airbox, just
this
> clamping doughnut. If the doughnut looses it's grip on the throttle
body the
> whole filtered airbox can slide downwards and fall off, in this case
that is
> exactly what happened. When we pulled the top cowling off, there in
the
> bottom sat the entire filtered airbox, clamping doughnut and all.
>
> Now for the fix: The filtered airbox bolts are located right
underneath the
> mounting studs for the throttle body assembly. I simply replaced these
bolts
> with drilled head bolts and made some drilled coupling nuts to put on
the
> throttle body studs, there was plenty of extra threads exposed on
these
> studs so I didn't have to make any changes to the studs or the nuts
that
> hold the throttle body in place. Then just safety wire the whole thing
> together. I used 0.040 wire to tie each filtered airbox bolt up to the
> mounting studs. Below are pictures of the drilled nuts and the final
> installation.
>
> Obviously I would highly recommend that if you have an Airflow
Performance
> fuel injection system with a vertically mounted fuel servo you take a
look
> at your installation and consider adding some securing means to ensure
this
> thing can't come apart on your airplane. They key issue is that
disrupting
> the airflow inside the fuel servo can make the engine STOP RUNNING!
>
> Lastly, I've collected the flight data out of my AFS EFIS system which
I
> just happened to have running at 2 second intervals. Its been very
> instructive to see exactly how the whole event played out. I could see
my
> various attempts to get the engine to run properly by changing
throttle
> positions and the hopeless lack of actual power. You could see the
excess
> fuel just crater the EGTs, and now in hind sight I may have been able
to get
> some power back if I had the insight to try and close the mixture
radically.
> However, I can say with confidence my total focus after about 1 or so
> minutes of trying to get power was on flying the plane to a safe
landing....
> mission accomplished.
>
>
> Pictures attached are of the drilled retention nuts and the updated
> installation.
>
>
> Bob Newman
> N541RV 200 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine out over KOCF |
The original listing had pictures when I posted it. Did anyone else
see them?
Here=99s a url to one of the pics I put on my google+ album.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-36L4ELs0R10/Uz8rUckKBfI/AAAAAAAAUCE/Fu
3xneaqtWQ/w769-h577-no/2014-04-03+13.22.23.jpg
Bob
From: Charles Brame
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2014 11:06 AM
Subject: RV-List: Engine out over KOCF
Bob,
Great job and great report. No photos attached, however. Any chance of a
url or a web site to show the photos?
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB - with a vertical mount AFP fuel injection.
San Antonio
-----------------------------------------------------
From: "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com>
Subject: RV-List: Engine out over KOCF
Fellow RVs,
Monday afternoon at 7000 ft. right over KOCF on our way to Sun-n-Fun I
had
the opportunity to put all that engine-out training to work. The good
news
first: This was the best case possible, no one hurt, no airplane
damage,
flew the plane, declared emergency, landed on the paved runway, made
the
first taxiway. Guardian angle working overtime!!
Now for the important details that I believe can have a positive
effect on
others building or flying RV's.
Root cause of the engine failure was that the filtered airbox came off
the
throttle body, wedged under the intake portion of the throttle body
and
disrupted the airflow through the metering venturi. This caused the
mixture
to go way out of wack as the engine went to an extreme rich condition,
I saw
fuel flow rates pegged at >30 gph as soon as the event occurred.
My airplane is an RV-10 with a stock engine install and a stock
cowling. I
have the Airflow Performance fuel injection system with a vertical
mount
FM-200 fuel servo. This is the critical issue. The FM-200 uses an
aluminum
clamping doughnut to retain the filtered airbox assembly. This system
does
not use safety-wired bolts on the filtered side of the airbox, just
this
clamping doughnut. If the doughnut looses it's grip on the throttle
body the
whole filtered airbox can slide downwards and fall off, in this case
that is
exactly what happened. When we pulled the top cowling off, there in
the
bottom sat the entire filtered airbox, clamping doughnut and all.
Now for the fix: The filtered airbox bolts are located right
underneath the
mounting studs for the throttle body assembly. I simply replaced these
bolts
with drilled head bolts and made some drilled coupling nuts to put on
the
throttle body studs, there was plenty of extra threads exposed on
these
studs so I didn't have to make any changes to the studs or the nuts
that
hold the throttle body in place. Then just safety wire the whole thing
together. I used 0.040 wire to tie each filtered airbox bolt up to the
mounting studs. Below are pictures of the drilled nuts and the final
installation.
Obviously I would highly recommend that if you have an Airflow
Performance
fuel injection system with a vertically mounted fuel servo you take a
look
at your installation and consider adding some securing means to ensure
this
thing can't come apart on your airplane. They key issue is that
disrupting
the airflow inside the fuel servo can make the engine STOP RUNNING!
Lastly, I've collected the flight data out of my AFS EFIS system which
I
just happened to have running at 2 second intervals. Its been very
instructive to see exactly how the whole event played out. I could see
my
various attempts to get the engine to run properly by changing
throttle
positions and the hopeless lack of actual power. You could see the
excess
fuel just crater the EGTs, and now in hind sight I may have been able
to get
some power back if I had the insight to try and close the mixture
radically.
However, I can say with confidence my total focus after about 1 or so
minutes of trying to get power was on flying the plane to a safe
landing....
mission accomplished.
Pictures attached are of the drilled retention nuts and the updated
installation.
Bob Newman
N541RV 200 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)twc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine out over KOCF |
Yes, they were there. All the way at the bottom.
Sent from my Verizon iPhone
> On Apr 5, 2014, at 1:50 PM, "Bob-tcw" wrote:
>
> The original listing had pictures when I posted it. Did anyone else see
them?
>
> Here=99s a url to one of the pics I put on my google+ album.
>
> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-36L4ELs0R10/Uz8rUckKBfI/AAAAAAAAUCE/Fu
3xneaqtWQ/w769-h577-no/2014-04-03+13.22.23.jpg
>
>
> Bob
>
> From: Charles Brame
> Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2014 11:06 AM
> To: List RV
> Subject: RV-List: Engine out over KOCF
>
> Bob,
>
> Great job and great report. No photos attached, however. Any chance of a u
rl or a web site to show the photos?
>
> Charlie Brame
> RV-6A N11CB - with a vertical mount AFP fuel injection.
> San Antonio
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
>> From: "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com>
>> Subject: RV-List: Engine out over KOCF
>>
>> Fellow RVs,
>>
>> Monday afternoon at 7000 ft. right over KOCF on our way to Sun-n-Fun I ha
d
>> the opportunity to put all that engine-out training to work. The good new
s
>> first: This was the best case possible, no one hurt, no airplane damage,
>> flew the plane, declared emergency, landed on the paved runway, made the
>> first taxiway. Guardian angle working overtime!!
>>
>> Now for the important details that I believe can have a positive effec
t on
>> others building or flying RV's.
>>
>> Root cause of the engine failure was that the filtered airbox came off th
e
>> throttle body, wedged under the intake portion of the throttle body and
>> disrupted the airflow through the metering venturi. This caused the mixtu
re
>> to go way out of wack as the engine went to an extreme rich condition, I s
aw
>> fuel flow rates pegged at >30 gph as soon as the event occurred.
>>
>> My airplane is an RV-10 with a stock engine install and a stock cowling. I
>> have the Airflow Performance fuel injection system with a vertical mount
>> FM-200 fuel servo. This is the critical issue. The FM-200 uses an aluminu
m
>> clamping doughnut to retain the filtered airbox assembly. This system doe
s
>> not use safety-wired bolts on the filtered side of the airbox, just this
>> clamping doughnut. If the doughnut looses it's grip on the throttle body t
he
>> whole filtered airbox can slide downwards and fall off, in this case that
is
>> exactly what happened. When we pulled the top cowling off, there in the
>> bottom sat the entire filtered airbox, clamping doughnut and all.
>>
>> Now for the fix: The filtered airbox bolts are located right underneath t
he
>> mounting studs for the throttle body assembly. I simply replaced these
bolts
>> with drilled head bolts and made some drilled coupling nuts to put on the
>> throttle body studs, there was plenty of extra threads exposed on these
>> studs so I didn't have to make any changes to the studs or the nuts that
>> hold the throttle body in place. Then just safety wire the whole thing
>> together. I used 0.040 wire to tie each filtered airbox bolt up to the
>> mounting studs. Below are pictures of the drilled nuts and the final
>> installation.
>>
>> Obviously I would highly recommend that if you have an Airflow Performanc
e
>> fuel injection system with a vertically mounted fuel servo you take a loo
k
>> at your installation and consider adding some securing means to ensure th
is
>> thing can't come apart on your airplane. They key issue is that disruptin
g
>> the airflow inside the fuel servo can make the engine STOP RUNNING!
>>
>> Lastly, I've collected the flight data out of my AFS EFIS system which I
>> just happened to have running at 2 second intervals. Its been very
>> instructive to see exactly how the whole event played out. I could see my
>> various attempts to get the engine to run properly by changing throttle
>> positions and the hopeless lack of actual power. You could see the excess
>> fuel just crater the EGTs, and now in hind sight I may have been able to g
et
>> some power back if I had the insight to try and close the mixture radical
ly.
>> However, I can say with confidence my total focus after about 1 or so
>> minutes of trying to get power was on flying the plane to a safe landing.
...
>> mission accomplished.
>>
>>
>> Pictures attached are of the drilled retention nuts and the updated
>> installation.
>>
>>
>> Bob Newman
>> N541RV 200 hrs
>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?RV-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
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>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "=?utf-8?B?Qm9iIENvbGxpbnM=?=" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFJWLUxpc3Q6IEVuZ2luZSBvdXQgb3ZlciBLT0NG? |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <TimRVator(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine out over KOCF |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
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HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)twc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine out over KOCF |
I second that, the vertical safeties are not needed and the wraps are not tight
near the bolt heads. Refer to the drawings
Sent from my Verizon iPhone
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 2:22 PM, Tim Lewis wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> An involuntary glider ride is no fun -- I'm glad you were able to land safely.
Thanks for sharing your experience (and the cause) with the group.
>
> I'm confused by the safety wire shown in your photos (particularly the vertical
runs of safety wire up to the coupling nuts). Is your primary intent to safety
the 4 drilled-head AN-3 bolts that penetrate down through the FAB aluminum
cover? If so, normal practice as I understand it would be to just safety wire
those AN-3 bolts to each other in pairs (as shown in AC 43.13-1B, page 7-20,
Figure 7-3, for example).
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim
> --
> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
> A&P
> RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
> RV-10 N31TD -- 500 hrs
> Bob-tcw said the following on 4/4/2014 6:58 PM:
>> Fellow RVs,
>>
>> Monday afternoon at 7000 ft. right over KOCF on our way to Sun-n-Fun I had the
opportunity to put all that engine-out training to work. The good news first:
This was the best case possible, no one hurt, no airplane damage, flew the
plane, declared emergency, landed on the paved runway, made the first taxiway.
Guardian angle working overtime!!
>>
>> Now for the important details that I believe can have a positive effect on others
building or flying RV's.
>>
>> Root cause of the engine failure was that the filtered airbox came off the throttle
body, wedged under the intake portion of the throttle body and disrupted
the airflow through the metering venturi. This caused the mixture to go way
out of wack as the engine went to an extreme rich condition, I saw fuel flow
rates pegged at >30 gph as soon as the event occurred.
>>
>> My airplane is an RV-10 with a stock engine install and a stock cowling. I have
the Airflow Performance fuel injection system with a vertical mount FM-200
fuel servo. This is the critical issue. The FM-200 uses an aluminum clamping
doughnut to retain the filtered airbox assembly. This system does not use safety-wired
bolts on the filtered side of the airbox, just this clamping doughnut.
If the doughnut looses it's grip on the throttle body the whole filtered airbox
can slide downwards and fall off, in this case that is exactly what happened.
When we pulled the top cowling off, there in the bottom sat the entire filtered
airbox, clamping doughnut and all.
>>
>> Now for the fix: The filtered airbox bolts are located right underneath the
mounting studs for the throttle body assembly. I simply replaced these bolts with
drilled head bolts and made some drilled coupling nuts to put on the throttle
body studs, there was plenty of extra threads exposed on these studs so I
didn't have to make any changes to the studs or the nuts that hold the throttle
body in place. Then just safety wire the whole thing together. I used 0.040
wire to tie each filtered airbox bolt up to the mounting studs. Below are pictures
of the drilled nuts and the final installation.
>>
>> Obviously I would highly recommend that if you have an Airflow Performance fuel
injection system with a vertically mounted fuel servo you take a look at your
installation and consider adding some securing means to ensure this thing
can't come apart on your airplane. They key issue is that disrupting the airflow
inside the fuel servo can make the engine STOP RUNNING!
>>
>> Lastly, I've collected the flight data out of my AFS EFIS system which I just
happened to have running at 2 second intervals. Its been very instructive to
see exactly how the whole event played out. I could see my various attempts to
get the engine to run properly by changing throttle positions and the hopeless
lack of actual power. You could see the excess fuel just crater the EGTs, and
now in hind sight I may have been able to get some power back if I had the
insight to try and close the mixture radically. However, I can say with confidence
my total focus after about 1 or so minutes of trying to get power was on
flying the plane to a safe landing.... mission accomplished.
>>
>>
>> Pictures attached are of the drilled retention nuts and the updated installation.
>>
>>
>> Bob Newman
>> N541RV 200 hrs
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine out over KOCF |
I've got no experience with that system, but I read the original post as
saying that the stock setup only uses a clamp around the inlet neck of
the throttle body to hold the airbox on the throttle body. I thought
that he was using the vertical runs of safety wire as a safety to keep
the airbox up if the clamp releases its grip (again).
On 4/6/2014 2:14 PM, Bobby Hester wrote:
>
> I second that, the vertical safeties are not needed and the wraps are not tight
near the bolt heads. Refer to the drawings
>
> Sent from my Verizon iPhone
>
>> On Apr 6, 2014, at 2:22 PM, Tim Lewis wrote:
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> An involuntary glider ride is no fun -- I'm glad you were able to land safely.
Thanks for sharing your experience (and the cause) with the group.
>>
>> I'm confused by the safety wire shown in your photos (particularly the vertical
runs of safety wire up to the coupling nuts). Is your primary intent to safety
the 4 drilled-head AN-3 bolts that penetrate down through the FAB aluminum
cover? If so, normal practice as I understand it would be to just safety wire
those AN-3 bolts to each other in pairs (as shown in AC 43.13-1B, page 7-20,
Figure 7-3, for example).
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Tim
>> --
>> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
>> A&P
>> RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
>> RV-10 N31TD -- 500 hrs
>> Bob-tcw said the following on 4/4/2014 6:58 PM:
>>> Fellow RVs,
>>>
>>> Monday afternoon at 7000 ft. right over KOCF on our way to Sun-n-Fun I had
the opportunity to put all that engine-out training to work. The good news first:
This was the best case possible, no one hurt, no airplane damage, flew the
plane, declared emergency, landed on the paved runway, made the first taxiway.
Guardian angle working overtime!!
>>>
>>> Now for the important details that I believe can have a positive effect on
others building or flying RV's.
>>>
>>> Root cause of the engine failure was that the filtered airbox came off the
throttle body, wedged under the intake portion of the throttle body and disrupted
the airflow through the metering venturi. This caused the mixture to go way
out of wack as the engine went to an extreme rich condition, I saw fuel flow
rates pegged at >30 gph as soon as the event occurred.
>>>
>>> My airplane is an RV-10 with a stock engine install and a stock cowling. I
have the Airflow Performance fuel injection system with a vertical mount FM-200
fuel servo. This is the critical issue. The FM-200 uses an aluminum clamping
doughnut to retain the filtered airbox assembly. This system does not use safety-wired
bolts on the filtered side of the airbox, just this clamping doughnut.
If the doughnut looses it's grip on the throttle body the whole filtered airbox
can slide downwards and fall off, in this case that is exactly what happened.
When we pulled the top cowling off, there in the bottom sat the entire filtered
airbox, clamping doughnut and all.
>>>
>>> Now for the fix: The filtered airbox bolts are located right underneath the
mounting studs for the throttle body assembly. I simply replaced these bolts
with drilled head bolts and made some drilled coupling nuts to put on the throttle
body studs, there was plenty of extra threads exposed on these studs so I
didn't have to make any changes to the studs or the nuts that hold the throttle
body in place. Then just safety wire the whole thing together. I used 0.040
wire to tie each filtered airbox bolt up to the mounting studs. Below are pictures
of the drilled nuts and the final installation.
>>>
>>> Obviously I would highly recommend that if you have an Airflow Performance
fuel injection system with a vertically mounted fuel servo you take a look at
your installation and consider adding some securing means to ensure this thing
can't come apart on your airplane. They key issue is that disrupting the airflow
inside the fuel servo can make the engine STOP RUNNING!
>>>
>>> Lastly, I've collected the flight data out of my AFS EFIS system which I just
happened to have running at 2 second intervals. Its been very instructive to
see exactly how the whole event played out. I could see my various attempts
to get the engine to run properly by changing throttle positions and the hopeless
lack of actual power. You could see the excess fuel just crater the EGTs,
and now in hind sight I may have been able to get some power back if I had the
insight to try and close the mixture radically. However, I can say with confidence
my total focus after about 1 or so minutes of trying to get power was on
flying the plane to a safe landing.... mission accomplished.
>>>
>>>
>>> Pictures attached are of the drilled retention nuts and the updated installation.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob Newman
>>> N541RV 200 hrs
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine out over KOCF |
| From: | Tcwtech <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
Charlie has it right. The whole point is to provide a safety means in the vertical
direction. The clamping doughnut is below the filtered airbox plate and not
visible in the picture. The four bolts that I safety wired to thread into
the doughnut. I safety wired between the bolts to provide additional protection
against them backing out. However, those four bolts could be removed and
as long as the clamping doughnut remained tight the box can't come off. Lastly
the vertical safety wire doesn't exactly need to be crazy tight as it would
require about 3/4" of travel before the doughnut comes disengaged from the
fuel servo.
Bob Newman.
On Apr 6, 2014, at 4:10 PM, Charlie England wrote:
>
> I've got no experience with that system, but I read the original post as saying
that the stock setup only uses a clamp around the inlet neck of the throttle
body to hold the airbox on the throttle body. I thought that he was using the
vertical runs of safety wire as a safety to keep the airbox up if the clamp
releases its grip (again).
>
> On 4/6/2014 2:14 PM, Bobby Hester wrote:
>>
>> I second that, the vertical safeties are not needed and the wraps are not tight
near the bolt heads. Refer to the drawings
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon iPhone
>>
>>> On Apr 6, 2014, at 2:22 PM, Tim Lewis wrote:
>>>
>>> Bob,
>>>
>>> An involuntary glider ride is no fun -- I'm glad you were able to land safely.
Thanks for sharing your experience (and the cause) with the group.
>>>
>>> I'm confused by the safety wire shown in your photos (particularly the vertical
runs of safety wire up to the coupling nuts). Is your primary intent to
safety the 4 drilled-head AN-3 bolts that penetrate down through the FAB aluminum
cover? If so, normal practice as I understand it would be to just safety
wire those AN-3 bolts to each other in pairs (as shown in AC 43.13-1B, page 7-20,
Figure 7-3, for example).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Tim
>>> --
>>> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
>>> A&P
>>> RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
>>> RV-10 N31TD -- 500 hrs
>>> Bob-tcw said the following on 4/4/2014 6:58 PM:
>>>> Fellow RVs,
>>>>
>>>> Monday afternoon at 7000 ft. right over KOCF on our way to Sun-n-Fun I had
the opportunity to put all that engine-out training to work. The good news first:
This was the best case possible, no one hurt, no airplane damage, flew the
plane, declared emergency, landed on the paved runway, made the first taxiway.
Guardian angle working overtime!!
>>>>
>>>> Now for the important details that I believe can have a positive effect on
others building or flying RV's.
>>>>
>>>> Root cause of the engine failure was that the filtered airbox came off the
throttle body, wedged under the intake portion of the throttle body and disrupted
the airflow through the metering venturi. This caused the mixture to go way
out of wack as the engine went to an extreme rich condition, I saw fuel flow
rates pegged at >30 gph as soon as the event occurred.
>>>>
>>>> My airplane is an RV-10 with a stock engine install and a stock cowling. I
have the Airflow Performance fuel injection system with a vertical mount FM-200
fuel servo. This is the critical issue. The FM-200 uses an aluminum clamping
doughnut to retain the filtered airbox assembly. This system does not use safety-wired
bolts on the filtered side of the airbox, just this clamping doughnut.
If the doughnut looses it's grip on the throttle body the whole filtered airbox
can slide downwards and fall off, in this case that is exactly what happened.
When we pulled the top cowling off, there in the bottom sat the entire filtered
airbox, clamping doughnut and all.
>>>>
>>>> Now for the fix: The filtered airbox bolts are located right underneath the
mounting studs for the throttle body assembly. I simply replaced these bolts
with drilled head bolts and made some drilled coupling nuts to put on the throttle
body studs, there was plenty of extra threads exposed on these studs so
I didn't have to make any changes to the studs or the nuts that hold the throttle
body in place. Then just safety wire the whole thing together. I used 0.040
wire to tie each filtered airbox bolt up to the mounting studs. Below are pictures
of the drilled nuts and the final installation.
>>>>
>>>> Obviously I would highly recommend that if you have an Airflow Performance
fuel injection system with a vertically mounted fuel servo you take a look at
your installation and consider adding some securing means to ensure this thing
can't come apart on your airplane. They key issue is that disrupting the airflow
inside the fuel servo can make the engine STOP RUNNING!
>>>>
>>>> Lastly, I've collected the flight data out of my AFS EFIS system which I just
happened to have running at 2 second intervals. Its been very instructive
to see exactly how the whole event played out. I could see my various attempts
to get the engine to run properly by changing throttle positions and the hopeless
lack of actual power. You could see the excess fuel just crater the EGTs,
and now in hind sight I may have been able to get some power back if I had the
insight to try and close the mixture radically. However, I can say with confidence
my total focus after about 1 or so minutes of trying to get power was on
flying the plane to a safe landing.... mission accomplished.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pictures attached are of the drilled retention nuts and the updated installation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bob Newman
>>>> N541RV 200 hrs
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <cheathco(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Horz stab and elv hinge SB's |
2 part question. I am not builder but think I can make these inspections
and hopefully enter that no problems found. If problems found I should
be able to make repairs, OR get help from my A&P who signs off my annual
to help if needed. Am I right about this? 2000 flying RV6A under 400 hr
TT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horz stab and elv hinge SB's |
On 4/7/2014 10:29 AM, cheathco(at)cox.net wrote:
> 2 part question. I am not builder but think I can make these
> inspections and hopefully enter that no problems found. If problems
> found I should be able to make repairs, OR get help from my A&P who
> signs off my annual to help if needed. Am I right about this? 2000
> flying RV6A under 400 hr TT
>
On any homebuilt experimental in the USA, *anyone* can do *anything*
that's maintenance or repair related, *except* the annual condition
inspection, which must be signed off by either the repairman's
certificate holder or someone holding at least an A&P ticket. As the
owner, you can sign off any other repairs or inspections.
Hope that helps,
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Horz stab and elv hinge SB's |
On an amateur-built aircraft anybody may do the maintenance but only the bu
ilder=2C certificated as a repairman=2C or an A&P may conduct the yearly co
ndition inspection (annual). Make sure you check the aircraft's operating
limitations (which are supposed to be in the aircraft at all times) to see
any restrictions and limitations.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
From: cheathco(at)cox.net
Subject: RV-List: Horz stab and elv hinge SB's
Date: Mon=2C 7 Apr 2014 10:29:11 -0500
2 part question. I am not builder but think I can make these inspections an
d hopefully enter that no problems found. If problems found I should be abl
e to make repairs=2C OR get help from my A&P who signs off my annual to hel
p if needed. Am I right about this? 2000 flying RV6A under 400 hr TT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed <decaclops(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horz stab and elv hinge SB's |
As the guys have said, you can do the work, if you can do the work that
is. The disassembly and repair involves drilling out a bunch of rivets,
some of which will be hard to get to and will require the skillful use
of an angle drill. Do yourself a favor and get some
experienced/qualified help, if repairs are required. Seems unlikely that
a 400hr airplane will have cracks, but it does need to be looked at closely.
Ed Holyoke
On 4/7/2014 8:29 AM, cheathco(at)cox.net wrote:
> 2 part question. I am not builder but think I can make these inspections
> and hopefully enter that no problems found. If problems found I should
> be able to make repairs, OR get help from my A&P who signs off my annual
> to help if needed. Am I right about this? 2000 flying RV6A under 400 hr TT
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
At 09:42 AM 4/14/2014 Monday, you wrote:
> Saw your flap mod in the current RV-8 thread. I like what you did. Any pictures
showing the inside or top of the addition?
>
>Blain Stumpf
Hi Blain,
Here are some additional pictures of the flap seals I made. They really clean
up the underside nicely. Recommend.
Matt
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 200+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | RV-6A shaky nose wheel |
I've occasionally felt some strange vibes coming from the front of the
airplane on landing but wasn't sure what it was because it happened so
seldom. I put a camera under the wing tip and caught it red handed a few
weeks ago. It hadn't happened for quite some time before then and coincided
with me filling the nose tire (~35 PSI) prior to the flight. Check out the
you tube link below (first 2 minutes) and tell me what you think . Is it
caused by higher pressure in the tire or? The thought of the gear leg coming
apart from all that shaking makes me a bit nervous. Like to find a cure so
that doesn't happen. I noticed at the last annual that the nose tire is
wearing much more in the center and I have NOT installed a wood stiffener on
the leg.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_CaaRJh3pA
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
200+ hours of flying fun
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A shaky nose wheel |
| From: | vanremog(at)aol.com |
Scary...Looks like inadequate tensioning of the nose gear breakout force to
me. I found that I had to double up on the Belleville washers to get mine
to be in the right range. I also keep all my tires around 31 psig.
-----Original Message-----
From: DEAN PSIROPOULOS <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Mon, Apr 14, 2014 9:33 pm
Subject: RV-List: RV-6A shaky nose wheel
.net>
I've occasionally felt some strange vibes coming from the front of the
airplane on landing but wasn't sure what it was because it happened so
seldom. I put a camera under the wing tip and caught it red handed a few
weeks ago. It hadn't happened for quite some time before then and coincided
with me filling the nose tire (~35 PSI) prior to the flight. Check out the
you tube link below (first 2 minutes) and tell me what you think . Is it
caused by higher pressure in the tire or? The thought of the gear leg comin
g
apart from all that shaking makes me a bit nervous. Like to find a cure so
that doesn't happen. I noticed at the last annual that the nose tire is
wearing much more in the center and I have NOT installed a wood stiffener o
n
the leg.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_CaaRJh3pA
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
200+ hours of flying fun
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Reuven Silberman <pilots2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A shaky nose wheel |
I agree.- Dismantle the whole nose wheel / gear leg attachment system.-
Check that the washers are positioned correctly (per the plans), reassembl
e and tighten the nut until you get the book breakout force - then cotter k
ey it.- ( disassembled you can also check the condition of the fork bushi
ngs). Just had an errant thought.- Are you using the smaller nose wheel f
ork, and if so, did you cut off the excess thread and re thread the gear le
g? - If your using the small fork and have not modified the gear leg then
the nut is bottoming out on the threads and you will never get the right t
ension. =0A=0AReuven =0A=0A=0A-=0AEnjoy life now=0AIt has an expiration d
ate.=0AOn Monday, April 14, 2014 10:19 PM, "vanremog(at)aol.com" wrote:=0A =0AScary...Looks like inadequate tensioning of the nose gea
r breakout force to me.- I found that I had to double up on-the Bellevi
lle washers to get mine to be in the right range.- I also keep all-my t
ires around 31 psig.=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: DEAN PSIROPOULOS
=0ATo: rv-list =0ASent
: Mon, Apr 14, 2014 9:33 pm=0ASubject: RV-List: RV-6A shaky nose wheel=0A
erizon.net> I've occasionally felt some strange vibes coming from the front
of the=0Aairplane on landing but wasn't sure what it was because it happen
ed so=0Aseldom. I put a camera under the wing tip and caught it red handed
a few=0Aweeks ago. It hadn't happened for quite some time before then and c
oincided=0Awith me filling the nose tire (~35 PSI) prior to the flight. Che
ck out the=0Ayou tube link below (first 2 minutes) and tell me what you thi
nk . Is it=0Acaused by higher pressure in the tire or? The thought of the g
ear leg coming=0Aapart from all that shaking makes me a bit nervous. Like t
o find a cure so=0Athat doesn't happen. I noticed at the last annual that t
he nose tire is=0Awearing much more in the center and I have NOT installed
a wood stiffener on=0Athe leg. www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_CaaRJh3pA Dean P
siropoulos=0ARV-6A N197DM=0A200+ hours of flying fun t="_blank">http:/
/www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List=0Atp://forums.matronics.com=0A_blank">
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A shaky nose wheel |
I agree too! I haven't got there yet (fiberglass hell on a -10), but my
little Grumman has a similar nose wheel setup. Grumman specs 25 Lbs
pull at the axle but 28-30 works better. As for the short nose fork,
wouldn't adding more belleville washers be an easier fix??? Just
thinking out loud ..... the Grumman washers are thinner than Vans and
they stack more of them.
Linn
On 4/15/2014 1:31 AM, Reuven Silberman wrote:
> I agree. Dismantle the whole nose wheel / gear leg attachment
> system. Check that the washers are positioned correctly (per the
> plans), reassemble and tighten the nut until you get the book breakout
> force - then cotter key it. ( disassembled you can also check the
> condition of the fork bushings). Just had an errant thought. Are you
> using the smaller nose wheel fork, and if so, did you cut off the
> excess thread and re thread the gear leg? If your using the small
> fork and have not modified the gear leg then the nut is bottoming out
> on the threads and you will never get the right tension.
>
> Reuven
>
> Enjoy life now
> It has an expiration date.
> On Monday, April 14, 2014 10:19 PM, "vanremog(at)aol.com"
> wrote:
> Scary...Looks like inadequate tensioning of the nose gear breakout
> force to me. I found that I had to double up on the Belleville
> washers to get mine to be in the right range. I also keep all my
> tires around 31 psig.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DEAN PSIROPOULOS <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
> To: rv-list
> Sent: Mon, Apr 14, 2014 9:33 pm
> Subject: RV-List: RV-6A shaky nose wheel
>
>
> I've occasionally felt some strange vibes coming from the front of the
> airplane on landing but wasn't sure what it was because it happened so
> seldom. I put a camera under the wing tip and caught it red handed a few
> weeks ago. It hadn't happened for quite some time before then and coincided
> with me filling the nose tire (~35 PSI) prior to the flight. Check out the
> you tube link below (first 2 minutes) and tell me what you think . Is it
> caused by higher pressure in the tire or? The thought of the gear leg coming
> apart from all that shaking makes me a bit nervous. Like to find a cure so
> that doesn't happen. I noticed at the last annual that the nose tire is
> wearing much more in the center and I have NOT installed a wood stiffener on
> the leg.
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_CaaRJh3pA <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_CaaRJh3pA>
>
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
> RV-6A N197DM
> 200+ hours of flying fun
>
>
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution============
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A shaky nose wheel |
I've been flying my RV-7A for about 10 years now out of a not too smooth
grass strip. Every couple of years I have to replace the bolt at the top of
the nose gear leg. You can see this looseness by rocking the plane side
to side with the prop. Its a rotation of the gear leg in the engine mount
socket. When I remove the bolt it is crushed a little. I've tried LockTite
around the gear leg, etc., but greasing it and replacing the bolt seems to
be as good as anything I've tried. I'm tempted to weld it to the engine
mount at the top thinking that if I bend the gear leg, I'll probably have to
replace the engine mount anyway.
Rather than using the axle bolt to adjust the bearing, I made a spacer out
of 3/4 dia. rod to go inside the nose wheel so that I could tighten the
axle bolt. This makes a much stronger assembly. Its a little hard to get
the length of the spacer right, but well worth the effort. It must be
(should be anyway) faced off in a lathe. To keep it in place during
installation, use a piece of 3/8 dia. rod a little shorter than the space the
wheel
fits in. Then the axle bolt will push the rod out as you push the axle bolt
in without letting the spacer drop out of position.
Not part of the solution, but the Nose Job gear leg brace is a good
investment IMHO.
Just the way I did it. Hope this helps someone.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A N766DH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Shaky Nose Wheel |
Wow. That video really shows some problems.
While most of your vibration seems to be lateral, I noticed some rapid
fore and aft oscillations of the wheel and strut assembly immediately
after the nose wheel touches the runway. That tells me that the tire and
wheel may not be not spinning freely. If the tire doesn't spin freely,
it causes the nose strut to move aft and then rebound, resulting in up
and down oscillations and associated vibrations until the speed is
slowed down greatly.
Second, as mentioned by several others, make sure the breakout force of
the nose wheel is tightened according to Van's instructions. Better too
tight than too loose.
Third. Around a 100 hours in my bird, I found the bolt at the top of the
nose gear strut was a bit loose and had slightly wallowed out the hole
in the nose gear trunion on the motor mount. I debated pulling the
engine and the motor mount and over sizing the hole in the trunion and
the strut. Ultimately, I just super tightened the nut on the firewall
side of the strut. I check it frequently by raising the nose gear off
the ground and trying to twist the strut in the mount. Fortunately, it
has remained tight for the last 200 hours.
Lastly, Van's cure for vibrating wheels is to reduce the tire pressure.
Applies both to nose gear and the main gear also. I generally carry
about 20 to 25 psi in all my tires.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
300 hours
San Antonio
----------------------------------------------------
> From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
> Subject: RV-List: RV-6A shaky nose wheel
>
> I've occasionally felt some strange vibes coming from the front of the
> airplane on landing but wasn't sure what it was because it happened so
> seldom. I put a camera under the wing tip and caught it red handed a
few
> weeks ago. It hadn't happened for quite some time before then and
coincided
> with me filling the nose tire (~35 PSI) prior to the flight. Check out
the
> you tube link below (first 2 minutes) and tell me what you think . Is
it
> caused by higher pressure in the tire or? The thought of the gear leg
coming
> apart from all that shaking makes me a bit nervous. Like to find a
cure so
> that doesn't happen. I noticed at the last annual that the nose tire
is
> wearing much more in the center and I have NOT installed a wood
stiffener on
> the leg.
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_CaaRJh3pA
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
> RV-6A N197DM
> 200+ hours of flying fun
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A shaky nose wheel |
| From: | Thomas Sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
My 6A nose wheel tends to wiggle at high (35ps) air pressure. I keep it
below 30 and it seems to be OK.
RV-6A, N811WT
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 5:23 AM, wrote:
>
>
> I've been flying my RV-7A for about 10 years now out of a not too smooth
> grass strip. Every couple of years I have to replace the bolt at the top
> of the nose gear leg. You can see this looseness by rocking the plane side
> to side with the prop. Its a rotation of the gear leg in the engine mount
> socket. When I remove the bolt it is crushed a little. I've tried
> LockTite around the gear leg, etc., but greasing it and replacing the bolt
> seems to be as good as anything I've tried. I'm tempted to weld it to the
> engine mount at the top thinking that if I bend the gear leg, I'll probably
> have to replace the engine mount anyway.
>
> Rather than using the axle bolt to adjust the bearing, I made a spacer out
> of 3/4 dia. rod to go inside the nose wheel so that I could tighten the
> axle bolt. This makes a much stronger assembly. Its a little hard to get
> the length of the spacer right, but well worth the effort. It must be
> (should be anyway) faced off in a lathe. To keep it in place during
> installation, use a piece of 3/8 dia. rod a little shorter than the space
> the wheel fits in. Then the axle bolt will push the rod out as you push
> the axle bolt in without letting the spacer drop out of position.
>
> Not part of the solution, but the Nose Job gear leg brace is a good
> investment IMHO.
>
> Just the way I did it. Hope this helps someone.
>
> Dan Hopper
> RV-7A N766DH
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics Web Server Down for Repair (PLEASE READ)... |
Dear Listers,
Late Tuesday night 4/15/2014, the Matronics Web server crashed due to a multi-disk
RAID 5 failure. The system has complete data backups, but I will likely have
to order some replacement disks to rebuild the system. I'll work as quickly
as I can to restore the Matronics Web Server.
The Matronics EMAIL server is NOT impacted by this issue. All normal Matronics
Email List mail will flow as usual. However, the Matronics Web Forums interface
will not be available.
Also impacted by the Web Server outage will be the AeroElectric web site.
I will try to post daily updates on the Web Server restoration status.
I apologize for the inconvenience... :-(
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Swayze <swayze(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A shaky nose wheel |
Dean,
I've studied this issue to some depth, and the problem is the design
of the nose wheel bearings. The forward-backward oscillations
mentioned by Charles Brame are due to pinching of the wheel by the
bearings as it rotates. The bearings bind when weight is put on the
wheel. But you don't dare loosen up the bearings too much either. The
solution is a solid axle and spacer, new maintenance-free bearings,
and precision balancing of the wheel and tire. I had this service
done on mine by Antisplat-Aero, and a local friend has some
before-and-after video, like yours, showing exactly how yours behaves
(the before) and the dramatic difference and smoothness after it's
done. It was so nice to torque my axle down nice and tight, and the
wheel spins freely by hand. I pump up the nose wheel to 35 psi or even more.
Take a look at this video, and see what it's all
about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpfazTrtbyY
It cost me a little over $200 to get this done, and I've never felt
like money was better spent. I should mention I have no affiliation
with these people and nothing to gain by this. I'm just a very happy
customer of this service.
Best to you,
Bruce Swayze
At 09:31 PM 4/14/2014, you wrote:
>
>
>
>I've occasionally felt some strange vibes coming from the front of the
>airplane on landing but wasn't sure what it was because it happened so
>seldom. I put a camera under the wing tip and caught it red handed a few
>weeks ago. It hadn't happened for quite some time before then and coincided
>with me filling the nose tire (~35 PSI) prior to the flight. Check out the
>you tube link below (first 2 minutes) and tell me what you think . Is it
>caused by higher pressure in the tire or? The thought of the gear leg coming
>apart from all that shaking makes me a bit nervous. Like to find a cure so
>that doesn't happen. I noticed at the last annual that the nose tire is
>wearing much more in the center and I have NOT installed a wood stiffener on
>the leg.
>
>www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_CaaRJh3pA
>
>
>Dean Psiropoulos
>RV-6A N197DM
>200+ hours of flying fun
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Finley" <jon(at)finleyweb.net> |
| Subject: | RV-6A shaky nose wheel |
Dean, Bruce, and all,
I hate to be argumentative but it appears to me that the wheel is on the
wrong end of the airplane. :-)
Jon
http://jdfinley.com
P.S. Ya just knew some doink was going to bring this up...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Swayze
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:35 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6A shaky nose wheel
Dean,
I've studied this issue to some depth, and the problem is the design of the
nose wheel bearings. The forward-backward oscillations mentioned by Charles
Brame are due to pinching of the wheel by the bearings as it rotates. The
bearings bind when weight is put on the wheel. But you don't dare loosen up
the bearings too much either. The solution is a solid axle and spacer, new
maintenance-free bearings, and precision balancing of the wheel and tire. I
had this service done on mine by Antisplat-Aero, and a local friend has some
before-and-after video, like yours, showing exactly how yours behaves (the
before) and the dramatic difference and smoothness after it's done. It was
so nice to torque my axle down nice and tight, and the wheel spins freely by
hand. I pump up the nose wheel to 35 psi or even more.
Take a look at this video, and see what it's all
about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpfazTrtbyY
It cost me a little over $200 to get this done, and I've never felt like
money was better spent. I should mention I have no affiliation with these
people and nothing to gain by this. I'm just a very happy customer of this
service.
Best to you,
Bruce Swayze
At 09:31 PM 4/14/2014, you wrote:
>
>
>
>I've occasionally felt some strange vibes coming from the front of the
>airplane on landing but wasn't sure what it was because it happened so
>seldom. I put a camera under the wing tip and caught it red handed a
>few weeks ago. It hadn't happened for quite some time before then and
>coincided with me filling the nose tire (~35 PSI) prior to the flight.
>Check out the you tube link below (first 2 minutes) and tell me what
>you think . Is it caused by higher pressure in the tire or? The thought
>of the gear leg coming apart from all that shaking makes me a bit
>nervous. Like to find a cure so that doesn't happen. I noticed at the
>last annual that the nose tire is wearing much more in the center and I
>have NOT installed a wood stiffener on the leg.
>
>www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_CaaRJh3pA
>
>
>Dean Psiropoulos
>RV-6A N197DM
>200+ hours of flying fun
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Swayze <swayze(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A shaky nose wheel |
I mentioned a friend who had the nose wheel bearing mod done on his
RV, and he took before-and-after videos of the nose wheel behavior on
some of his landings. I looked up the video for you, so you can see
the difference the modification made for his RV. I know him
personally, and he swears by this. Take a look:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0kHXOIop5Y
At 09:31 PM 4/14/2014, you wrote:
>
>
>
>I've occasionally felt some strange vibes coming from the front of the
>airplane on landing but wasn't sure what it was because it happened so
>seldom. I put a camera under the wing tip and caught it red handed a few
>weeks ago. It hadn't happened for quite some time before then and coincided
>with me filling the nose tire (~35 PSI) prior to the flight. Check out the
>you tube link below (first 2 minutes) and tell me what you think . Is it
>caused by higher pressure in the tire or? The thought of the gear leg coming
>apart from all that shaking makes me a bit nervous. Like to find a cure so
>that doesn't happen. I noticed at the last annual that the nose tire is
>wearing much more in the center and I have NOT installed a wood stiffener on
>the leg.
>
>www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_CaaRJh3pA
>
>
>Dean Psiropoulos
>RV-6A N197DM
>200+ hours of flying fun
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A shaky nose wheel |
Hello Bruce and Dean,
I certainly agree that it is good to be able to tighten the axle nut.
But, I can't see why this relatively expensive fix is any better than the
spacer idea I posted earlier which I copied and pasted here:
Rather than using the axle bolt to adjust the bearing, I made a spacer out
of 3/4 dia. rod to go inside the nose wheel so that I could tighten the
axle bolt. This makes a much stronger assembly. Its a little hard to get
the length of the spacer right, but well worth the effort. It must be
(should be anyway) faced off in a lathe. To keep it in place during
installation, use a piece of 3/8 dia. rod a little shorter than the space the
wheel
fits in. Then the axle bolt will push the rod out as you push the axle bolt
in without letting the spacer drop out of position.
What I am talking about is a small spool that holds the inner bearing
cones apart so that the bearings have a fixed "adjustment" determined by the
length of the spacer.
Tapered roller bearings are used in almost all cars on the road and in all
certificated airplanes. There surely is nothing wrong with the basic
design.
Sincerely,
Dan
RV7A
N766DH
In a message dated 4/16/2014 8:45:04 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
swayze(at)europa.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: Bruce Swayze
Dean,
I've studied this issue to some depth, and the problem is the design
of the nose wheel bearings. The forward-backward oscillations
mentioned by Charles Brame are due to pinching of the wheel by the
bearings as it rotates. The bearings bind when weight is put on the
wheel. But you don't dare loosen up the bearings too much either. The
solution is a solid axle and spacer, new maintenance-free bearings,
and precision balancing of the wheel and tire. I had this service
done on mine by Antisplat-Aero, and a local friend has some
before-and-after video, like yours, showing exactly how yours behaves
(the before) and the dramatic difference and smoothness after it's
done. It was so nice to torque my axle down nice and tight, and the
wheel spins freely by hand. I pump up the nose wheel to 35 psi or even
more.
Take a look at this video, and see what it's all
about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpfazTrtbyY
It cost me a little over $200 to get this done, and I've never felt
like money was better spent. I should mention I have no affiliation
with these people and nothing to gain by this. I'm just a very happy
customer of this service.
Best to you,
Bruce Swayze
At 09:31 PM 4/14/2014, you wrote:
>
>
>
>I've occasionally felt some strange vibes coming from the front of the
>airplane on landing but wasn't sure what it was because it happened so
>seldom. I put a camera under the wing tip and caught it red handed a few
>weeks ago. It hadn't happened for quite some time before then and
coincided
>with me filling the nose tire (~35 PSI) prior to the flight. Check out the
>you tube link below (first 2 minutes) and tell me what you think . Is it
>caused by higher pressure in the tire or? The thought of the gear leg
coming
>apart from all that shaking makes me a bit nervous. Like to find a cure so
>that doesn't happen. I noticed at the last annual that the nose tire is
>wearing much more in the center and I have NOT installed a wood stiffener
on
>the leg.
>
>www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_CaaRJh3pA
>
>
>Dean Psiropoulos
>RV-6A N197DM
>200+ hours of flying fun
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ian Brown <ixb(at)videotron.ca> |
| Subject: | RV-6A shaky nose wheel |
Dean,
I'd suggest measuring the breakout force first. If the nut had bottomed out
or for any other reason you weren't adjusting the compression washers for
the right force you'd be able to measure it. Check your builder's manual
for details of tightness and testing method. Your nose wheel castoring
looks VERY loose. I'd also check the wheel bearing tightness (maybe the
mains too while you're at it). The wheel should turn freely. You might
also want to check the AntiSplatAero.com website for details of an
alternative wheel bearing solution plus their nose gear brace, the Nose Job
Two, which would control that nose gear bounce.
The amount of smoke coming off your tire would account for the excessive
wear in the center of the tread.
Remember the compression washers are supposed to be convex side facing
towards each other.
One last thing - remember back pressure on the stick all the time before and
after touchdown except for maybe a brief second just to get the nose down on
the tarmac.
Nice video. Best of luck tracking this down.
Ian Brown, RV-9A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ian Brown <ixb(at)videotron.ca> |
| Subject: | RV-6A shaky nose wheel |
Bob Collins asks a good question. It's always confused me too. How do we
know when a wheel is free enough? I've packed loads of grease after cleaning
the bearings, then tightened until there's just no free lateral play, but at
that point the wheels don't really turn freely. In fact they stop the
minute you stop turning them. I was surprised when the AntiSplat nose wheel
job came back and I mounted it. It turns as freely as a bicycle wheel!
(I'm not connected with them in any way, by the way, just a fan). I guess
for the standard conical bearings, for the load bearing points, looser
doesn't really change much in terms of pressures and weights on bearing
surfaces. Are there any experts out there - how much grease should these
bearings get and how tight should they be?
"The "turn freely" part of this has always confused me. The instructions are
vague on this (tighten to prevent bearing from turning with the wheel) and
seemingly encouraging it to be tight enough that if you try to spin the
wheel by hand, it won't move that much.
What do other folks do on this point?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A shaky nose wheel |
| From: | Dan Bergeron <dan.pat.b(at)gmail.com> |
Good Morning
Here's another two cents FWIW - I have an RV-7A my wife and I built over
6.5 years in our one-car garage -
I too have puzzled over nose wheel axle tightening - I tighten carefully
just to the point where there is no lateral movement in the wheel and no
further - at that point the wheel still turns freely (remember that's a 4"
wheel so there isn't going to be a lot of spinning free as with a bicycle
wheel) - I clean the bearings thoroughly with a solvent and grease them
using a bearing greaser available in most auto parts stores - wipe most of
the excess grease from the outside - put a small amount of grease around
the race and put it back together - haven't had a problem in 458 hours -
Dan Bergeron
RV-7A N307TB
458 hours since
first flight Aug 2009
On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 10:27 AM, Ian Brown wrote:
>
> Bob Collins asks a good question. It's always confused me too. How do we
> know when a wheel is free enough? I've packed loads of grease after
> cleaning
> the bearings, then tightened until there's just no free lateral play, but
> at
> that point the wheels don't really turn freely. In fact they stop the
> minute you stop turning them. I was surprised when the AntiSplat nose
> wheel
> job came back and I mounted it. It turns as freely as a bicycle wheel!
> (I'm not connected with them in any way, by the way, just a fan). I guess
> for the standard conical bearings, for the load bearing points, looser
> doesn't really change much in terms of pressures and weights on bearing
> surfaces. Are there any experts out there - how much grease should these
> bearings get and how tight should they be?
>
> "The "turn freely" part of this has always confused me. The instructions
> are
> vague on this (tighten to prevent bearing from turning with the wheel) and
> seemingly encouraging it to be tight enough that if you try to spin the
> wheel by hand, it won't move that much.
>
> What do other folks do on this point?"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics Web Server Repaired and ONLINE! (PLEASE READ) |
Dear Listers,
The new hard drives for the Matronics web server arrived today, Thursday 4/17/2014
and the RAID5 disk array rebuild went very smoothly.
Web server is back online and fully functional! No data or files were lost.
Additionally, those that frequent the AeroElectric web site will find that it has
been restored as well.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marty Helller <marty_away(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics Web Server Repaired and ONLINE! (PLEASE READ) |
That's Matt for all you do with the web site......
> Date: Thu=2C 17 Apr 2014 23:28:29 -0700
> To: dralle(at)matronics.com
> From: dralle(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Matronics Web Server Repaired and ONLINE! (PLEASE READ)
>
>
>
> Dear Listers=2C
>
> The new hard drives for the Matronics web server arrived today=2C Thursda
y 4/17/2014 and the RAID5 disk array rebuild went very smoothly.
>
Matronics Web server is back online and fully functional! No data or files
were lost.
>
> Additionally=2C those that frequent the AeroElectric web site will find t
hat it has been restored as well.
>
> Best regards=2C
>
> Matt Dralle
> Matronics Email List and Forum Admin.
>
>
>
> Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550
> 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A shaky nose wheel |
| From: | Jeff Orear <jorear(at)new.rr.com> |
I have employed the staking of the nose gear pucks solution to prevent them from
rotating. My axle is tightened to the point where I can spin the wheel and
it stops after 1 1/2 revolutions. That coupled with. 22lbs breakout force and
30lbs of tire pressure has resulted in no nose gear shimmy for me
Jeff Orear
RV 6A. N782P
Peshtigo, WI
> On Apr 17, 2014, at 9:27 AM, Ian Brown wrote:
>
>
> Bob Collins asks a good question. It's always confused me too. How do we
> know when a wheel is free enough? I've packed loads of grease after cleaning
> the bearings, then tightened until there's just no free lateral play, but at
> that point the wheels don't really turn freely. In fact they stop the
> minute you stop turning them. I was surprised when the AntiSplat nose wheel
> job came back and I mounted it. It turns as freely as a bicycle wheel!
> (I'm not connected with them in any way, by the way, just a fan). I guess
> for the standard conical bearings, for the load bearing points, looser
> doesn't really change much in terms of pressures and weights on bearing
> surfaces. Are there any experts out there - how much grease should these
> bearings get and how tight should they be?
>
> "The "turn freely" part of this has always confused me. The instructions are
> vague on this (tighten to prevent bearing from turning with the wheel) and
> seemingly encouraging it to be tight enough that if you try to spin the
> wheel by hand, it won't move that much.
>
> What do other folks do on this point?"
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Swayze <swayze(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A shaky nose wheel |
Ian,
Bob does indeed ask a good question. It's very difficult for most of
us to get this right. I don't think it's a matter of too little or
too much grease. I think the instructions are vague because it's a
poor design. You tighten it up too much and the wheel won't turn
freely. It sticks in spots as the wheel rotates. But you loosen it
up and the bearings spin against the sides of the fork. It's hard for
most of us to find the sweet spot. And even then you're left
wondering... how long will that last until it needs to be adjusted,
as normal wear and tear take place?
The video link I posted earlier shows how even in the best of
circumstances, there is some shimmy caused by pinching in spots as
the wheel rotates, causing the forward and backward shimmy. But after
he had the wheel bearing mod done, it was dramatically improved. So I
went ahead and did mine. It's great to give the wheel a spin, and
like you said, it turns freely like a bicycle wheel! And these
bearings will never need maintenance. There's certainly more than one
way to skin this cat, but for my money, the wheel bearing mod is one
of the best choices I've made.
At 07:27 AM 4/17/2014, you wrote:
>
>Bob Collins asks a good question. It's always confused me too. How do we
>know when a wheel is free enough? I've packed loads of grease after cleaning
>the bearings, then tightened until there's just no free lateral play, but at
>that point the wheels don't really turn freely. In fact they stop the
>minute you stop turning them. I was surprised when the AntiSplat nose wheel
>job came back and I mounted it. It turns as freely as a bicycle wheel!
>(I'm not connected with them in any way, by the way, just a fan). I guess
>for the standard conical bearings, for the load bearing points, looser
>doesn't really change much in terms of pressures and weights on bearing
>surfaces. Are there any experts out there - how much grease should these
>bearings get and how tight should they be?
>
>"The "turn freely" part of this has always confused me. The instructions are
>vague on this (tighten to prevent bearing from turning with the wheel) and
>seemingly encouraging it to be tight enough that if you try to spin the
>wheel by hand, it won't move that much.
>
>What do other folks do on this point?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | larygagnon(at)aol.com |
{macros3.txt} http://teose.com/reply_11.php?njbamokyq773
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
I am contemplating the sale of my RV-6A. I recall some years ago seeing
some sample sales agreement forms on the EAA website. Today I can only
find some good articles about selling your plane there, but no actual
templates for such a transaction.
I observed the sale of a plane once and recall there were some FAA-required
forms involved that I had never seen before (transfer of registration, I
guess.)
Can any one who has been through this process give me some advice? Steer
me to a website perhaps or tell me why I'm nuts to try to do it without a
lawyer/airplane broker involved?
Thanks,
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: selling a plane |
| From: | Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> |
There was just a thread on this a couple of weeks ago. You should be able t
o search the archives. Try the RV List or the RV-10 List.
-Mike
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 4, 2014, at 6:23 PM, Thomas Sargent wrote:
>
> I am contemplating the sale of my RV-6A. I recall some years ago seeing s
ome sample sales agreement forms on the EAA website. Today I can only find s
ome good articles about selling your plane there, but no actual templates fo
r such a transaction.
>
> I observed the sale of a plane once and recall there were some FAA-require
d forms involved that I had never seen before (transfer of registration, I g
uess.)
>
> Can any one who has been through this process give me some advice? Steer m
e to a website perhaps or tell me why I'm nuts to try to do it without a law
yer/airplane broker involved?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Tom Sargent
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lyle Peterson <lyleap(at)centurylink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: selling a plane |
Look at this FAA site:
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/form/ac8050-2.pdf
and this:
www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/form/ac8050-2.pdf
The links look very similar but should get you to two different forms,
the Bill of Sale and the Sales Agreement.
-- Sent from my Gateway E4610D Lyle
On 5/4/2014 6:20 PM, Michael Kraus wrote:
> There was just a thread on this a couple of weeks ago. You should be
> able to search the archives. Try the RV List or the RV-10 List.
>
> -Mike
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 4, 2014, at 6:23 PM, Thomas Sargent > wrote:
>
>> I am contemplating the sale of my RV-6A. I recall some years ago
>> seeing some sample sales agreement forms on the EAA website. Today I
>> can only find some good articles about selling your plane there, but
>> no actual templates for such a transaction.
>>
>> I observed the sale of a plane once and recall there were some
>> FAA-required forms involved that I had never seen before (transfer of
>> registration, I guess.)
>>
>> Can any one who has been through this process give me some advice?
>> Steer me to a website perhaps or tell me why I'm nuts to try to do it
>> without a lawyer/airplane broker involved?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> --
>> Tom Sargent
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vince Frazier <vincefrazier(at)gmail.com> |
SNIP
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: RV-List: selling a plane
> From: Thomas Sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com>
>
> I am contemplating the sale of my RV-6A. I recall some years ago seeing
> some sample sales agreement forms on the EAA website. Today I can only
> find some good articles about selling your plane there, but no actual
> templates for such a transaction.
>
> I observed the sale of a plane once and recall there were some FAA-required
> forms involved that I had never seen before (transfer of registration, I
> guess.)
>
> Can any one who has been through this process give me some advice? Steer
> me to a website perhaps or tell me why I'm nuts to try to do it without a
> lawyer/airplane broker involved?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Tom Sargent
>
SNIP
Tom,
Your best bet for a safe transaction is to use an escrow service. There
are many. I have used AIC Title Services in the past and felt it was money
well spent. A Google search will find several.
There are many pitfalls to selling (or buying) a plane. It isn't like a
car because the FAA doesn't issue a title, just a registration. The
registration, or de-registration, doesn't necessarily protect you from
claims. Transferring the money is always a problem. A escrow service
eliminates many of the problems. Check it out.
A few hundred bucks is well worth the paperwork and funds being handled
professionally.
Vince
www.flyboyaccessories.com - RV tailwheels and many other nifty RV
products.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: selling a plane |
| From: | "jfogarty tds.net" <jfogarty(at)tds.net> |
Tom, There are forms on the www.faa.gov site. You will need to transfer
the title to the new buyer. Form 8050-2
Jim
On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 8:10 AM, Vince Frazier wrote:
> SNIP
>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 1
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Subject: RV-List: selling a plane
>> From: Thomas Sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com>
>>
>> I am contemplating the sale of my RV-6A. I recall some years ago seeing
>> some sample sales agreement forms on the EAA website. Today I can only
>> find some good articles about selling your plane there, but no actual
>> templates for such a transaction.
>>
>> I observed the sale of a plane once and recall there were some
>> FAA-required
>> forms involved that I had never seen before (transfer of registration, I
>> guess.)
>>
>> Can any one who has been through this process give me some advice? Steer
>> me to a website perhaps or tell me why I'm nuts to try to do it without a
>> lawyer/airplane broker involved?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> --
>> Tom Sargent
>>
> SNIP
>
>
> Tom,
>
> Your best bet for a safe transaction is to use an escrow service. There
> are many. I have used AIC Title Services in the past and felt it was money
> well spent. A Google search will find several.
>
> There are many pitfalls to selling (or buying) a plane. It isn't like a
> car because the FAA doesn't issue a title, just a registration. The
> registration, or de-registration, doesn't necessarily protect you from
> claims. Transferring the money is always a problem. A escrow service
> eliminates many of the problems. Check it out.
>
> A few hundred bucks is well worth the paperwork and funds being handled
> professionally.
>
> Vince
> www.flyboyaccessories.com - RV tailwheels and many other nifty RV
> products.
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Jim Fogarty
Lakes and Leisure Realty, Inc.
8636 Bluebird Lane
Breezy Point, MN 56472
218-380-3784
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: selling a plane |
Tom,
I sent a copy, to your e-mail address of a sales agreement, that was on
the EAA website several years ago and I used to sell my RV-6A. Perhaps
it went to your trash bin. I will send it again, if you would like.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
On 5/4/2014 6:23 PM, Thomas Sargent wrote:
> I am contemplating the sale of my RV-6A. I recall some years ago
> seeing some sample sales agreement forms on the EAA website. Today I
> can only find some good articles about selling your plane there, but
> no actual templates for such a transaction.
>
> I observed the sale of a plane once and recall there were some
> FAA-required forms involved that I had never seen before (transfer of
> registration, I guess.)
>
> Can any one who has been through this process give me some advice?
> Steer me to a website perhaps or tell me why I'm nuts to try to do it
> without a lawyer/airplane broker involved?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Tom Sargent
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/05/14 |
| From: | Vince Frazier <vincefrazier(at)gmail.com> |
> Subject: Re: RV-List: selling a plane
> From: "jfogarty
>
> Tom, There are forms on the www.faa.gov site. You will need to transfer
> the title to the new buyer. Form 8050-2
>
> Jim
>
>
> On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 8:10 AM, Vince Frazier >wrote:
>
> > SNIP
> >
> >>
> >> ________________________________ Message 1
> >> _____________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >> Subject: RV-List: selling a plane
> >> From: Thomas Sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com>
> >>
> >> I am contemplating the sale of my RV-6A. I recall some years ago seeing
> >> some sample sales agreement forms on the EAA website. Today I can only
> >> find some good articles about selling your plane there, but no actual
> >> templates for such a transaction.
> >>
> >> I observed the sale of a plane once and recall there were some
> >> FAA-required
> >> forms involved that I had never seen before (transfer of registration, I
> >> guess.)
> >>
> >> Can any one who has been through this process give me some advice?
> Steer
> >> me to a website perhaps or tell me why I'm nuts to try to do it without
> a
> >> lawyer/airplane broker involved?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> --
> >> Tom Sargent
> >>
> > SNIP
> >
> >
> > Tom,
> >
> > Your best bet for a safe transaction is to use an escrow service. There
> > are many. I have used AIC Title Services in the past and felt it was
> money
> > well spent. A Google search will find several.
> >
> > There are many pitfalls to selling (or buying) a plane. It isn't like a
> > car because the FAA doesn't issue a title, just a registration. The
> > registration, or de-registration, doesn't necessarily protect you from
> > claims. Transferring the money is always a problem. A escrow service
> > eliminates many of the problems. Check it out.
> >
> > A few hundred bucks is well worth the paperwork and funds being handled
> > professionally.
> >
> > Vince
> > www.flyboyaccessories.com - RV tailwheels and many other nifty RV
> > products.
>
Gents,
More buying/selling thoughts:
While it is important to transfer the title to the new buyer, if you're
selling, it is MORE important to make certain that you transfer the title
OUT OF YOUR NAME. Many sellers forget this step. The registration form
you carry in the plane must remain in your possession when you sell !!! It
has a section on the back for YOU to fill out and send to the FAA. Here's
a link that shows what I'm talking about:
http://www.wileywales.com/sellingpix/registration.jpg NEVER assume that
the buyer is honest and will take care of it for you!! NEVER.
When I sell a plane, I also send a letter to the FAA, along with the AC
8050-3 registration form from the plane, that specifically says that the
plane is sold, to whom, and any other pertinent details. And keep a copy
of both! The FAA doesn't care about the letter, but it serves to prove
that you've sold the plane and may help protect you from claims arising if
the new owner never registers the plane (a very common occurrence!!!)
If you don't think that you can get burned, I suggest you ask around. Old
timers will often have some horrific stories! I have a long one.. too long
to type... and suspect that the other guy may have gone to jail over the
fraud and tax evasion involved.
If you're buying, you're a fool if you don't do a title search. I suggest
using an escrow service too.
Imagine the reverse of the above scenario. You buy a plane without a title
search, then find out that the previous "owner" never registered the plane,
which means that the plane may actually still be owned by the previous
seller. The previous seller could be: 1) dead, 2) a drug runner, 3) insert
other bad scenario here, or 4) lazy and naive. Youd' better pray that the
previous owner is #4.
The problem is that if you hand over the cash, you can end up with a plane
that has significant title problems, liens, mechanic liens, or worse. You
can lose your butt.
I hope this helps someone avoid any heartache.
Thanks,
Vince
www.flyboyaccessories.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: selling a plane |
| From: | Thomas Sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
Richard:
No need, I did get it. Thank you very much.
And many thanks to the others that responded too. Your input has been very
valuable.
On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 6:51 AM, Richard Dudley wrote:
> Tom,
>
> I sent a copy, to your e-mail address of a sales agreement, that was on
> the EAA website several years ago and I used to sell my RV-6A. Perhaps it
> went to your trash bin. I will send it again, if you would like.
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Dudley
>
>
> On 5/4/2014 6:23 PM, Thomas Sargent wrote:
>
> I am contemplating the sale of my RV-6A. I recall some years ago seeing
> some sample sales agreement forms on the EAA website. Today I can only
> find some good articles about selling your plane there, but no actual
> templates for such a transaction.
>
> I observed the sale of a plane once and recall there were some
> FAA-required forms involved that I had never seen before (transfer of
> registration, I guess.)
>
> Can any one who has been through this process give me some advice? Steer
> me to a website perhaps or tell me why I'm nuts to try to do it without a
> lawyer/airplane broker involved?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Tom Sargent
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Veld <jcveld(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | "old school" RV6 wing kit for sale |
I have an old (pre-pre-punched) RV6 wing kit collecting dust in my basement.
It has Phlogiston spars, one O/B leading edge done, one O/B leading edge in clecoes,
one tank in clecoes, one tank not touched. flop tube included.
Clecoes that are in it are included...
Control surfaces untouched, main ribs and rear spars partly done. All plans and
papers i have left are included (some went with fuselage kit i sold)
Skins are not all there because i was going to do one pc wing skins and used the
aluminum for other projects. fasteners... same thing.. (i do have some of each)
i would prefer local pickup rather than try to ship*. (Kalamazoo, MI)
Asking $1000 ... i will entertain offers but no guarantee i will accept "best offer".
*If shipping is required i will have to figure additional crating/shilling costs..
If you are interested, contact me off list, jcveld(at)mac.com, or call/text 269-267-2509
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Dogwood Airpark (VA42) house and hangar for sale |
Forwarded in case anyone is looking for an airpark home where you can do
commuter train to DC. This house is across the street from me.
http://beechcraftva42.blogspot.com/
Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Judge <bjudge(at)gmail.com> |
I've been kicking around the idea of getting rid of the 2 PC625s that I
lug around and getting lithium batteries, I could probably save 20 lbs, but
every time I get close I read about this sort of thing:
http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24135454&postcount=9894
So I'll probably wait a few more years...
Bill Judge
N84WJ, RV-8, 1012 hrs
RV-8.blogspot.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
Lithium Ion and Lithium Polymer batteries are sensitive to thermal
runaway ...... and once started are near impossible to stop. Their
charge profiles are also different from flooded/gel batteries. Even the
'experts' get it wrong .... Use Bing to find 'dreamliner battery' to see
the carnage. I'd wait a while before switching.
Linn
On 5/11/2014 2:27 AM, Bill Judge wrote:
> I've been kicking around the idea of getting rid of the 2 PC625s that
> I lug around and getting lithium batteries, I could probably save 20
> lbs, but every time I get close I read about this sort of thing:
> http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24135454&postcount=9894
>
> So I'll probably wait a few more years...
>
> Bill Judge
> N84WJ, RV-8, 1012 hrs
> RV-8.blogspot.com <http://RV-8.blogspot.com>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Bergeron <dan.pat.b(at)gmail.com> |
Good Morning
The only lithium ion battery in my airplane is in my cell phone - no way I
would go beyond that - the risk of thermal runaway too high and the
potential consequences catastrophic - no thanks - fly safe
Dan Bergeron
RV-7A - N307TB
500+ hours since first
flight Aug 6, 2009
On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 8:53 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
> Lithium Ion and Lithium Polymer batteries are sensitive to thermal
> runaway ...... and once started are near impossible to stop. Their charge
> profiles are also different from flooded/gel batteries. Even the 'experts'
> get it wrong .... Use Bing to find 'dreamliner battery' to see the
> carnage. I'd wait a while before switching.
> Linn
>
>
> On 5/11/2014 2:27 AM, Bill Judge wrote:
>
> I've been kicking around the idea of getting rid of the 2 PC625s that I
> lug around and getting lithium batteries, I could probably save 20 lbs, but
> every time I get close I read about this sort of thing:
> http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24135454&postcount=9894
>
> So I'll probably wait a few more years...
>
> Bill Judge
> N84WJ, RV-8, 1012 hrs
> RV-8.blogspot.com
>
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 05/10/14
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Luckey <jluckey(at)pacbell.net> |
Bill,=0A=0AI use Li-po batts in my R/C model airplanes and they are great f
or that application, HOWEVER, they require a fair amount of care.- They n
eed a special charger; they are extremely sensitive to over-charging & bein
g drained below a certain voltage.- Generally they are very temperamental
and need lot of baby-sitting.- They are great for R/Cs because they are
half the weight of alternatives but I track each charge, the number of cycl
es, etc for each pack that I own and generally treat them w/ a lot of respe
ct.=0A=0AAs other posters have mentioned, when they fail, it can be spectac
ular.- I once watched a Nissan hatchback burn to the tires at my local mo
del flying field because the owner was charging a lipo pack in the back sea
t. =0A=0AI don't think they are ready for prime time in Experimental aircra
ft.- I think that there have been some articles in Kit Planes recently ab
out this subject and I believe the author reaches the same conclusion. =0A
=0A=0A-Jeff=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Dan Bergeron
=0ATo: rv-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, May 11,
2014 7:18 AM=0ASubject: Re: RV-List: EarthX fire=0A =0A=0A=0AGood Morning
=0AThe only lithium ion battery in my airplane is in my cell phone - no way
I would go beyond that - the risk of thermal runaway too high and the pote
ntial consequences catastrophic - no thanks - fly safe=0ADan Bergeron=0ARV-
7A -- N307TB=0A500+ hours since first-=0A- - -flight Aug 6, 2009
-=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Sun, May 11, 2014 at 8:53 AM, Linn Walters wrote:=0A=0ALithium Ion and Lithium Polymer batteries are sensiti
ve to thermal runaway ...... and once started are near impossible to stop.
- Their charge profiles are also different from flooded/gel batteries.-
Even the 'experts' get it wrong .... Use Bing to find 'dreamliner battery'
to see the carnage.- I'd wait a while before switching.=0A>Linn=0A>=0A>
=0A>On 5/11/2014 2:27 AM, Bill Judge wrote:=0A>=0A>I've been kicking around
the idea of getting rid of the 2 PC625s that I lug-around and getting li
thium batteries, I could probably save 20 lbs,-but every time I get close
I read about this sort of thing: =0A>>http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.
php?p=24135454&postcount=9894=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>So I'll probably wait
a few more years...=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Bill Judge=0AN84WJ, RV-8, 1012 hrs=0A>>
=0A>>RV-8.blogspot.com=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>No virus found in this message.=0A>>Ch
ecked by AVG - www.avg.com=0A>>05/10/14=0A>=0A>=0A>t="_blank">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List=0Atp://forums.matronics.com=0A_blank">http:
=========================0A
=========================0A
=======================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Alternative engine gathering at Slobovia Outernational (MS71) |
We're hosting an alternative engine seminar this weekend here at
Slobovia Outernational, May 16-18. If you're building, flying, or just
thinking about an alternative engine, we'd love to have you attend.
If you want to come, please drop me a line at mcsophie(at)gmail.com or give
us a call at 601-879-9596 to RSVP so we can have a headcount for food,
etc. You're welcome to camp on the field, or bring a bedroll & find a
spot in the house or hangar. Hotels are about 20 minutes away by car,
and there's a campground about 2 miles north.
Slobovia is about 10 miles north of Jackson MS on the Memphis sectional.
Give me a shout for driving directions. Google Maps gets it right, but
some automotive GPS's do not.
Hope to see you this weekend,
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com> |
Jeff,
Please be sure to distinguish between Li-po and Lithium Iron Phosphate
(LiFePO4). The Iron Phosphate chemistry holds some promise for
experimental aviation. The LiPo chemistry used in R/C planes does not.
john
On 5/11/2014 9:31 AM, Jeff Luckey wrote:
> Bill,
>
> I use Li-po batts in my R/C model airplanes and they are great for
> that application, HOWEVER, they require a fair amount of care. They
> need a special charger; they are extremely sensitive to over-charging
> & being drained below a certain voltage. Generally they are very
> temperamental and need lot of baby-sitting. They are great for R/Cs
> because they are half the weight of alternatives but I track each
> charge, the number of cycles, etc for each pack that I own and
> generally treat them w/ a lot of respect.
>
> As other posters have mentioned, when they fail, it can be
> spectacular. I once watched a Nissan hatchback burn to the tires at
> my local model flying field because the owner was charging a lipo pack
> in the back seat.
>
> I don't think they are ready for prime time in Experimental aircraft.
> I think that there have been some articles in Kit Planes recently
> about this subject and I believe the author reaches the same conclusion.
>
> -Jeff
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Dan Bergeron
> *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 11, 2014 7:18 AM
> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: EarthX fire
>
> Good Morning
> The only lithium ion battery in my airplane is in my cell phone - no
> way I would go beyond that - the risk of thermal runaway too high and
> the potential consequences catastrophic - no thanks - fly safe
> Dan Bergeron
> RV-7A - N307TB
> 500+ hours since first
> flight Aug 6, 2009
>
>
> On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 8:53 AM, Linn Walters > wrote:
>
> Lithium Ion and Lithium Polymer batteries are sensitive to thermal
> runaway ...... and once started are near impossible to stop. Their
> charge profiles are also different from flooded/gel batteries.
> Even the 'experts' get it wrong .... Use Bing to find 'dreamliner
> battery' to see the carnage. I'd wait a while before switching.
> Linn
>
>
> On 5/11/2014 2:27 AM, Bill Judge wrote:
>> I've been kicking around the idea of getting rid of the 2 PC625s
>> that I lug around and getting lithium batteries, I could probably
>> save 20 lbs, but every time I get close I read about this sort of
>> thing:
>> http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24135454&postcount=9894
>>
>> So I'll probably wait a few more years...
>>
>> Bill Judge
>> N84WJ, RV-8, 1012 hrs
>> RV-8.blogspot.com <http://rv-8.blogspot.com/>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/>
>> 05/10/14
>
> *
>
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *http://www.matro===================
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ian Brown <ixb(at)videotron.ca> |
If we didn't try to figure out how to mitigate fire risks in fuel choices we
wouldn't be using Avgas would we? Lithium polymer batteries show a lot of
promise so I'm hopeful that the fire risk problems will be solved, maybe on
the way to producing something even better.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Wagoner <strgzr(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | RV-6A QB Kit for sale |
=0A=0A=0AHi RV-aviators:=0A=0AAfter a number of years of =9CI
=99ll get to it soon=9D I have decided to put my RV-6A Kit, =0Aengine
and propeller up for sale.=0A=0AI acquired the RV in early 2000 while I wa
s in flight training for my private ticket. =0AShortly after (a few months)
the kit=99s arrival I had an unfortunate accident and as a result
=0Amy left shoulder required surgery. Recovery was slow and painful. My fli
ght training was =0Ahalted and my work on the RV also stopped. A few years
later, when I had recovered =0Amost of my mobility, I started flying and go
t the private ticket but my desire to build the =0Aairplane was gone. I kep
t it thinking I will eventually start up again, but I never did.=0A=0ASo it
=99s time for someone else to try their hand.=C2- Here is what I ha
ve for sale:=0A=0ARV-6A QUICKBUILD kit with the sliding canopy, electric fl
aps, electric trim, engine =0Amount and has the FULL Finishing Kit=0A=0ANOT
E: Even though this is a Quick Build kit it came with a standard empennage
kit.=0A(All the QB kits were on a boat coming from the Philippines, but the
y had the standard=0ATail kit in stock). So the work that I put into this k
it was to build the Horizontal =0AStabilizer, Vertical Stabilizer, Rudder a
nd both Elevators. None of the =98QB=99 parts have =0Aany work
done to them. =0A=0AThere are a substantial number of extras included with
the kit. Examples are: 'Mini plan =0Aset (in addition to regular plans), Fu
ll set of assembly videos both QB and regular, =0A'Firewall Forward' book s
et, numerous books on flight testing homebuilts, 'Aerolectric =0Amanual, sh
eet metal tools and much much more.=0A=0APictures of the airplane=C2- are
at: =0A=0Ahttps://plus.google.com/photos/103635590211074260885/albums/6014
81483446010696=0A1=0A=C2-=0Aand at:=0A=0Ahttps://plus.google.com/photos/1
03635590211074260885/albums/579144011237703867=0A3=0A=0AThe airplane and ot
her goodies are in a storage area in Fremont California. while I =0Acurrent
ly reside in Georgetown Texas. I will be back in the Bay Area after the Mem
orial =0ADay holiday and can arrange to extend my stay if I have any intere
sted parties.=0A=0APlease note that his is a 'Pick-up' sale. Shipping is no
t an option. When I bought=0Athe aircraft, I drove it back (in a rented tru
ck) from Oregon!=0A=0AIf you have any questions please contact me.=0A=0AI a
m looking for Best Offer=C2- -=C2- =0A=C2-=0A(Note =93 I will N
OT =98part out=99 the airplane)=0A=0AI can be reached by email
at: strgzr(at)sbcglobal.net =0A=0Aor by phone at 510-209-8515=0A=0AThanks!=0A
=0ARick Wagoner=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Luckey <jluckey(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A QB Kit for sale |
Richard,=0A=0AThose links don't appear to work - when I try to visit them I
get the Google Error Page.=0A=0AGive us some info about the engine & prop.
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Richard Wago
ner =0ATo: "rv-list(at)matronics.com" ; "rv6-list(at)matronics.com" =0ASent: Sunday, M
ay 18, 2014 10:50 AM=0ASubject: RV-List: RV-6A QB Kit for sale=0A =0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0AHi RV-aviators:=0A=0AAfter a number of years of =9CI
=99ll get to it soon=9D I have decided to put my RV-6A Kit, =0Aengine
and propeller up for sale.=0A=0AI acquired the RV in early 2000 while I wa
s in flight=0A training for my private ticket. =0AShortly after (a few mont
hs) the kit=99s arrival I had an unfortunate accident and as a result
=0Amy left shoulder required surgery. Recovery was slow and painful. My fl
ight training was =0Ahalted and my work on the RV also stopped. A few years
later, when I had recovered =0Amost of my mobility, I started flying and g
ot the private ticket but my desire to build the =0Aairplane was gone. I ke
pt it thinking I will eventually start up again, but I never did.=0A=0ASo i
t=99s time for someone else to try their hand.=C2- Here is what I h
ave for sale:=0A=0ARV-6A QUICKBUILD kit with the sliding canopy, electric f
laps, electric trim, engine =0Amount and has the FULL Finishing Kit=0A=0ANO
TE: Even though this is a Quick Build kit it came with a standard empennage
kit.=0A(All the QB kits were on a boat coming from the Philippines, but th
ey had the standard=0ATail kit in stock). So the work that I put into this
kit=0A was to build the Horizontal =0AStabilizer, Vertical Stabilizer, Rudd
er and both Elevators. None of the =98QB=99 parts have =0Aany w
ork done to them. =0A=0AThere are a substantial number of extras included w
ith the kit. Examples are: 'Mini plan =0Aset (in addition to regular plans)
, Full set of assembly videos both QB and regular, =0A'Firewall Forward' bo
ok set, numerous books on flight testing homebuilts, 'Aerolectric =0Amanual
, sheet metal tools and much much more.=0A=0APictures of the airplane=C2-
are at: =0A=0Ahttps://plus.google.com/photos/103635590211074260885/albums/
601481483446010696=0A1=0A=C2-=0Aand at:=0A=0Ahttps://plus.google.com/phot
os/103635590211074260885/albums/579144011237703867=0A3=0A=0AThe airplane an
d other goodies are in a storage area in Fremont California. while I =0Acur
rently reside in Georgetown Texas. I will be back in the Bay Area after the
Memorial =0ADay holiday and can arrange to extend my stay if I=0A have any
interested parties.=0A=0APlease note that his is a 'Pick-up' sale. Shippin
g is not an option. When I bought=0Athe aircraft, I drove it back (in a ren
ted truck) from Oregon!=0A=0AIf you have any questions please contact me.
=0A=0AI am looking for Best Offer=C2- -=C2- =0A=C2-=0A(Note =93
I will NOT =98part out=99 the airplane)=0A=0AI can be reached
by email at: strgzr(at)sbcglobal.net =0A=0Aor by phone at 510-209-8515=0A=0ATh
====================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | don van santen <donvansanten(at)gmail.com> |
Kl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "davist(at)xsinet.co.za" <davist(at)xsinet.co.za> |
| Subject: | Canopy gas struts |
Does anyone know whether the Van's tip up canopy gas struts can be re-charged?
The price of $33 each seems a bit steep so it would be great if one could "pump
them up"
Trevor RV-7
South Africa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Wagoner <strgzr(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Sorry for the garbled listing |
Sorry for the garbled listing. I can't seem to be able to post
without these characters creeping in.
Any advice on how to get rid of them would be appreciated.
I am using a Notepad to write it.
Thanks,
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy gas struts |
Scour the archives. I vaguely remember a post about a Napa part and
another about struts being made while the guy waited.
Linn
On 5/19/2014 9:02 AM, davist(at)xsinet.co.za wrote:
>
> Does anyone know whether the Van's tip up canopy gas struts can be re-charged?
>
> The price of $33 each seems a bit steep so it would be great if one could "pump
them up"
>
> Trevor RV-7
> South Africa
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Stabilized approach procedures for CS / FI |
Folks,
I am trying to set up some standard procedures for slowing down during the approach/landing
phase.
I am currently doing IFR training in my 6A and am experiencing some frustrating
moments...:
During the final approach - in preparation for go-around with the MAP already pulled
back, I set the prop set to full fine pitch. Even at 90 knots, I get pulled
forward in my seat...meanwhile, I think my injection system is dumping excess
fuel as I get drainage from the air-bowl after landing.
What are the rest of you doing?
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stabilized approach procedures for CS / FI |
| From: | mr.gsun(at)gmail.com |
I fly the approach faster
Greg
On May 19, 2014 9:21 AM, "Ralph E. Capen" wrote:
>
>
> Folks,
>
> I am trying to set up some standard procedures for slowing down during the
> approach/landing phase.
>
> I am currently doing IFR training in my 6A and am experiencing some
> frustrating moments...:
>
> During the final approach - in preparation for go-around with the MAP
> already pulled back, I set the prop set to full fine pitch. Even at 90
> knots, I get pulled forward in my seat...meanwhile, I think my injection
> system is dumping excess fuel as I get drainage from the air-bowl after
> landing.
>
> What are the rest of you doing?
>
> Thanks,
> Ralph Capen
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stabilized approach procedures for CS / FI |
Well,
I see no reason to adjust the prop from cruise during the approach
phase. You aren't going to go lower than 200 ft without seeing the
runway environment anyway. Your engine can run just fine at 2400 rpm and
full throttle and will give you plenty of climb power.
A lot of the guidance for flying approaches dates back to WWII with
radial engines, that really does not apply to a 2 seat high performance
plane with a flat 4 or 6 cyl engine. Most any place that has an ILS is
going to want max speed you can do and still get slowed down after
breaking out. I use 100 kts in my 200 hp Mooney, which is probably as
hard to slow down as your RV. I can't even deploy flaps until below 87
kts. I'c go faster, but max gear down speed is 105kts.
As for dripping from manifold after shutdown, very common among injected
Lycomings. Not anything wrong.
On 5/19/2014 9:39 AM, mr.gsun(at)gmail.com wrote:
>
> I fly the approach faster
>
> Greg
>
> On May 19, 2014 9:21 AM, "Ralph E. Capen" > wrote:
>
> >
>
>
> Folks,
>
> I am trying to set up some standard procedures for slowing down
> during the approach/landing phase.
>
> I am currently doing IFR training in my 6A and am experiencing
> some frustrating moments...:
>
> During the final approach - in preparation for go-around with the
> MAP already pulled back, I set the prop set to full fine pitch.
> Even at 90 knots, I get pulled forward in my seat...meanwhile, I
> think my injection system is dumping excess fuel as I get drainage
> from the air-bowl after landing.
>
> What are the rest of you doing?
>
> Thanks,
> Ralph Capen
>
>
> ==========
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> ==========
> MS -
> k">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> e -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stabilized approach procedures for CS / FI |
| From: | Jhnstniii <jhnstniii(at)aol.com> |
Fellow RVers--In the approach environment (in my CS RV-6A) I fly at 120 kno
ts at all times, including down the ILS. I fly 2400 rpm at all times after
takeoff and reducing power to 16 inches produces 120 knots in level flight
. The value of this for me is:
1) Easy math (two miles per minute groundspeed, 600 fpm down on the ILS) (a
ssuming no wind).
2) Airplane is already trimmed for climb at 120 on the missed, just push po
wer and prop full forward, flaps are still up.
3) Happy controllers.
4) Firm controls.
Upon breaking out, there is plenty of time to pull power, slow to flap oper
ating speed, lower flaps, and land.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph E. Capen <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Mon, May 19, 2014 12:18 pm
Subject: RV-List: Stabilized approach procedures for CS / FI
Folks,
I am trying to set up some standard procedures for slowing down during the
approach/landing phase.
I am currently doing IFR training in my 6A and am experiencing some frustra
ting
moments...:
During the final approach - in preparation for go-around with the MAP alrea
dy
pulled back, I set the prop set to full fine pitch. Even at 90 knots, I get
pulled forward in my seat...meanwhile, I think my injection system is dumpi
ng
excess fuel as I get drainage from the air-bowl after landing.
What are the rest of you doing?
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stabilized approach procedures for CS / FI |
Kelly,
Thanks for the input - I'll try the 2400 next time I'm out putting around.
As for the dripping, I contacted the FI system manufacturer and he provided some
additional guidance regarding the purge valve.....
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
>From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
>Sent: May 19, 2014 8:43 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Stabilized approach procedures for CS / FI
>
>
>Well,
>I see no reason to adjust the prop from cruise during the approach
>phase. You aren't going to go lower than 200 ft without seeing the
>runway environment anyway. Your engine can run just fine at 2400 rpm and
>full throttle and will give you plenty of climb power.
>A lot of the guidance for flying approaches dates back to WWII with
>radial engines, that really does not apply to a 2 seat high performance
>plane with a flat 4 or 6 cyl engine. Most any place that has an ILS is
>going to want max speed you can do and still get slowed down after
>breaking out. I use 100 kts in my 200 hp Mooney, which is probably as
>hard to slow down as your RV. I can't even deploy flaps until below 87
>kts. I'c go faster, but max gear down speed is 105kts.
>As for dripping from manifold after shutdown, very common among injected
>Lycomings. Not anything wrong.
>
>On 5/19/2014 9:39 AM, mr.gsun(at)gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> I fly the approach faster
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> On May 19, 2014 9:21 AM, "Ralph E. Capen" > > wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> I am trying to set up some standard procedures for slowing down
>> during the approach/landing phase.
>>
>> I am currently doing IFR training in my 6A and am experiencing
>> some frustrating moments...:
>>
>> During the final approach - in preparation for go-around with the
>> MAP already pulled back, I set the prop set to full fine pitch.
>> Even at 90 knots, I get pulled forward in my seat...meanwhile, I
>> think my injection system is dumping excess fuel as I get drainage
>> from the air-bowl after landing.
>>
>> What are the rest of you doing?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ralph Capen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
>> ==========
>> MS -
>> k">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> e -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stabilized approach procedures for CS / FI |
Not the first to recommend a higher speed - but the first with this level of common
sense explanation...worth considering.
Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
From: Jhnstniii
Sent: May 19, 2014 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Stabilized approach procedures for CS / FI
Fellow RVers--In the approach environment (in my CS RV-6A) I fly at 120 knots at
all times, including down the ILS. I fly 2400 rpm at all times after takeoff
and reducing power to 16 inches produces 120 knots in level flight. The value
of this for me is:
1) Easy math (two miles per minute groundspeed, 600 fpm down on the ILS) (assuming
no wind).
2) Airplane is already trimmed for climb at 120 on the missed, just push power
and prop full forward, flaps are still up.
3) Happy controllers.
4) Firm controls.
Upon breaking out, there is plenty of time to pull power, slow to flap operating
speed, lower flaps, and land.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph E. Capen <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Mon, May 19, 2014 12:18 pm
Subject: RV-List: Stabilized approach procedures for CS / FI
Folks,
I am trying to set up some standard procedures for slowing down during the
approach/landing phase.
I am currently doing IFR training in my 6A and am experiencing some frustrating
moments...:
During the final approach - in preparation for go-around with the MAP already
pulled back, I set the prop set to full fine pitch. Even at 90 knots, I get
pulled forward in my seat...meanwhile, I think my injection system is dumping
excess fuel as I get drainage from the air-bowl after landing.
What are the rest of you doing?
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john.paulich(at)gray-robinson.com" <jpaulich(at)pswpa.com> |
| Subject: | [Auto-Reply] RV-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 05/21/14 |
Your email has been forwarded to my new email address, john.paulich@gray-robinson.com.
Please note this change in your address book.
It gives me great pleasure to announce that, effective May 19, 2014, my partner,
Casey Wolff, and I have joined the Florida law firm of GrayRobinson, P.A. as
shareholders. Our ongoing representation of you will not change. Clients will
see a gradual transfer to new phones, email, and website. We'll still be at
the same location, only the sign on the office door will reference our new firm.
Naturally, Mary Ellen and Pat will be joining us.
John Paulich, III, Esq.
Shareholder
GrayRobinson, P.A.
5147 Castello Drive
Naples, FL 34103
Main: 239-598-3601 | Fax: 239-598-3164
Email: john.paulich@gray-robinson.com
GRAY | ROBINSON
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john.paulich(at)gray-robinson.com" <jpaulich(at)pswpa.com> |
| Subject: | Email address change |
Your email has been forwarded to my new email address, john.paulich@gray-robinson.com.
Please note this change in your address book.
It gives me great pleasure to announce that, effective May 19, 2014, my partner,
Casey Wolff, and I have joined the Florida law firm of GrayRobinson, P.A. as
shareholders. Our ongoing representation of you will not change. Clients will
see a gradual transfer to new phones, email, and website. We'll still be at
the same location, only the sign on the office door will reference our new firm.
Naturally, Mary Ellen and Pat will be joining us.
John Paulich, III, Esq.
Shareholder
GrayRobinson, P.A.
5147 Castello Drive
Naples, FL 34103
Main: 239-598-3601 | Fax: 239-598-3164
Email: john.paulich@gray-robinson.com
GRAY | ROBINSON
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Email address change |
| From: | larygagnon(at)aol.com |
who cares
-----Original Message-----
From: john.paulich(at)gray-robinson.com <jpaulich(at)pswpa.com>
Sent: Fri, May 23, 2014 3:25 am
Subject: RV-List: Email address change
Your email has been forwarded to my new email address, john.paulich@gray-ro
binson.com.
Please note this change in your address book.
It gives me great pleasure to announce that, effective May 19, 2014, my par
tner,
Casey Wolff, and I have joined the Florida law firm of GrayRobinson, P.A. a
s
shareholders. Our ongoing representation of you will not change. Clients
will
see a gradual transfer to new phones, email, and website. We'll still be a
t the
same location, only the sign on the office door will reference our new firm
.
Naturally, Mary Ellen and Pat will be joining us.
John Paulich, III, Esq.
Shareholder
GrayRobinson, P.A.
5147 Castello Drive
Naples, FL 34103
Main: 239-598-3601 | Fax: 239-598-3164
Email: john.paulich@gray-robinson.com
GRAY | ROBINSON
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 406 ELT and batteries |
| From: | Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> |
Do they make a 406 ELT with D cell batteries? I can only find one with the expensive
lithium replaceable batteries....
Thanks
-Mike Kraus
Sent from my iPhone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Swayze <swayze(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 406 ELT and batteries |
You have to remember, the lithium batteries will last 5 years. So how
much would one spend on regular D-cell batteries during that time?
Last thing you want is to have a mayday and your batteries are dead
because you forgot to replace them. Something to think about. Just my 2-cents.
At 10:56 AM 5/23/2014, you wrote:
>
>Do they make a 406 ELT with D cell batteries? I can only find one
>with the expensive lithium replaceable batteries....
>
>Thanks
>-Mike Kraus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 406 ELT and batteries |
I've got some D cells on the shelf that came out of my old 121.5 ELT
years ago, due to 'timing out'. The date code is 2008. They all still
show well above 1.5 volts. Alkaline batteries last a looong time sitting
'on the shelf', which is (hopefully) what they are doing in an ELT.
Without debating the merits of 406 ELTs, sometimes 'new' really means
'more money' for the guy who paid the regulator.
Charlie
On 5/23/2014 4:35 PM, Bruce Swayze wrote:
>
> You have to remember, the lithium batteries will last 5 years. So how
> much would one spend on regular D-cell batteries during that time?
> Last thing you want is to have a mayday and your batteries are dead
> because you forgot to replace them. Something to think about. Just my
> 2-cents.
>
> At 10:56 AM 5/23/2014, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> Do they make a 406 ELT with D cell batteries? I can only find one
>> with the expensive lithium replaceable batteries....
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Mike Kraus
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 406 ELT and batteries |
On 5/23/2014 6:56 PM, Charlie England wrote:
>
> I've got some D cells on the shelf that came out of my old 121.5 ELT
> years ago, due to 'timing out'. The date code is 2008. They all still
> show well above 1.5 volts.
You might put a load on them .... like a flashlight bulb ... and see the
voltage drop a lot. I wouldn't put those batteries where you might need
to depend on them.
Linn
> Alkaline batteries last a looong time sitting 'on the shelf', which is
> (hopefully) what they are doing in an ELT.
>
> Without debating the merits of 406 ELTs, sometimes 'new' really means
> 'more money' for the guy who paid the regulator.
>
> Charlie
>
>
> On 5/23/2014 4:35 PM, Bruce Swayze wrote:
>>
>> You have to remember, the lithium batteries will last 5 years. So how
>> much would one spend on regular D-cell batteries during that time?
>> Last thing you want is to have a mayday and your batteries are dead
>> because you forgot to replace them. Something to think about. Just my
>> 2-cents.
>>
>> At 10:56 AM 5/23/2014, you wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Do they make a 406 ELT with D cell batteries? I can only find one
>>> with the expensive lithium replaceable batteries....
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> -Mike Kraus
>>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 406 ELT and batteries |
I had to replace the lithium batteries in my 406 ELT to obtain an
airworthiness certificate. I bought the 406 ELT too early and couldn't
prove the date on the batteries.
I purchased a $5 D-Cell flashlight on sale at the local grocery store
and added a $5 6-Volt LED to keep my old $70 lithium batteries in. Best
damn $5 flashlight ever.
john
On 5/23/2014 2:35 PM, Bruce Swayze wrote:
>
> You have to remember, the lithium batteries will last 5 years. So how
> much would one spend on regular D-cell batteries during that time?
> Last thing you want is to have a mayday and your batteries are dead
> because you forgot to replace them. Something to think about. Just my
> 2-cents.
>
> At 10:56 AM 5/23/2014, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> Do they make a 406 ELT with D cell batteries? I can only find one
>> with the expensive lithium replaceable batteries....
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Mike Kraus
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john.paulich(at)gray-robinson.com" <jpaulich(at)pswpa.com> |
| Subject: | Email address change |
Your email has been forwarded to my new email address, john.paulich@gray-robinson.com.
Please note this change in your address book.
It gives me great pleasure to announce that, effective May 19, 2014, my partner,
Casey Wolff, and I have joined the Florida law firm of GrayRobinson, P.A. as
shareholders. Our ongoing representation of you will not change. Clients will
see a gradual transfer to new phones, email, and website. We'll still be at
the same location, only the sign on the office door will reference our new firm.
Naturally, Mary Ellen and Pat will be joining us.
John Paulich, III, Esq.
Shareholder
GrayRobinson, P.A.
5147 Castello Drive
Naples, FL 34103
Main: 239-598-3601 | Fax: 239-598-3164
Email: john.paulich@gray-robinson.com
GRAY | ROBINSON
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 406 ELT and batteries |
| From: | Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> |
The replacement battery from AS&S is currently $144. Divided by 5 is $28.80 per
year.... 4 D-cell batteries are under $10. So it's about 3X more expensive
and less readily available as you can buy D-cell batteries anywhere!
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 23, 2014, at 5:35 PM, Bruce Swayze wrote:
>
>
> You have to remember, the lithium batteries will last 5 years. So how much would
one spend on regular D-cell batteries during that time? Last thing you want
is to have a mayday and your batteries are dead because you forgot to replace
them. Something to think about. Just my 2-cents.
>
> At 10:56 AM 5/23/2014, you wrote:
>>
>> Do they make a 406 ELT with D cell batteries? I can only find one with the
expensive lithium replaceable batteries....
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Mike Kraus
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 406 ELT and batteries |
| From: | Vincent Himsl <vshimsl(at)live.com> |
Have had nothing but trouble from leaking D Cells. By the time I have pulled off
the wing tip and cleaned up the mess, $144 looks reasonable, very reasonable.
I believe (not near manual) my new ELT does battery check on startup. Sweet!
Let me see, a battery for the ELT, ELT panel indicator, the Dynon, GPS, Intercom,
and flashlight. Hmmmm, maybe I need to rethink all this ?u
--- Original Message ---
From: "Michael Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Sent: May 24, 2014 6:40 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: 406 ELT and batteries
The replacement battery from AS&S is currently $144. Divided by 5 is $28.80 per
year.... 4 D-cell batteries are under $10. So it's about 3X more expensive
and less readily available as you can buy D-cell batteries anywhere!
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 23, 2014, at 5:35 PM, Bruce Swayze wrote:
>
>
> You have to remember, the lithium batteries will last 5 years. So how much would
one spend on regular D-cell batteries during that time? Last thing you want
is to have a mayday and your batteries are dead because you forgot to replace
them. Something to think about. Just my 2-cents.
>
> At 10:56 AM 5/23/2014, you wrote:
>>
>> Do they make a 406 ELT with D cell batteries? I can only find one with the
expensive lithium replaceable batteries....
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Mike Kraus
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Collins <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 406 ELT and batteries |
Don't forget that we're only allowed to use HALF the useful life an ELT
battery or batteries.
On 5/24/2014 8:33 AM, Michael Kraus wrote:
>
> The replacement battery from AS&S is currently $144. Divided by 5 is $28.80
per year.... 4 D-cell batteries are under $10. So it's about 3X more expensive
and less readily available as you can buy D-cell batteries anywhere!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On May 23, 2014, at 5:35 PM, Bruce Swayze wrote:
>>
>>
>> You have to remember, the lithium batteries will last 5 years. So how much would
one spend on regular D-cell batteries during that time? Last thing you want
is to have a mayday and your batteries are dead because you forgot to replace
them. Something to think about. Just my 2-cents.
>>
>> At 10:56 AM 5/23/2014, you wrote:
>>>
>>> Do they make a 406 ELT with D cell batteries? I can only find one with the
expensive lithium replaceable batteries....
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> -Mike Kraus
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 406 ELT and batteries |
| From: | Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
In the past I've rolled my own battery to replace the official ELT
battery. Taking the wrapper off of the old one revealed nine ordinary 9
volts. Easy decision.
On Saturday, May 24, 2014, Michael Kraus wrote:
> >
>
> The replacement battery from AS&S is currently $144. Divided by 5 is
> $28.80 per year.... 4 D-cell batteries are under $10. So it's about 3X
> more expensive and less readily available as you can buy D-cell batteries
> anywhere!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On May 23, 2014, at 5:35 PM, Bruce Swayze >
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > You have to remember, the lithium batteries will last 5 years. So how
> much would one spend on regular D-cell batteries during that time? Last
> thing you want is to have a mayday and your batteries are dead because you
> forgot to replace them. Something to think about. Just my 2-cents.
> >
> > At 10:56 AM 5/23/2014, you wrote:
> n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net >
> >>
> >> Do they make a 406 ELT with D cell batteries? I can only find one with
> the expensive lithium replaceable batteries....
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> -Mike Kraus
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
--
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john.paulich(at)gray-robinson.com" <jpaulich(at)pswpa.com> |
| Subject: | Email address change |
Your email has been forwarded to my new email address, john.paulich@gray-robinson.com.
Please note this change in your address book.
It gives me great pleasure to announce that, effective May 19, 2014, my partner,
Casey Wolff, and I have joined the Florida law firm of GrayRobinson, P.A. as
shareholders. Our ongoing representation of you will not change. Clients will
see a gradual transfer to new phones, email, and website. We'll still be at
the same location, only the sign on the office door will reference our new firm.
Naturally, Mary Ellen and Pat will be joining us.
John Paulich, III, Esq.
Shareholder
GrayRobinson, P.A.
5147 Castello Drive
Naples, FL 34103
Main: 239-598-3601 | Fax: 239-598-3164
Email: john.paulich@gray-robinson.com
GRAY | ROBINSON
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john.paulich(at)gray-robinson.com" <jpaulich(at)pswpa.com> |
| Subject: | Email address change |
Your email has been forwarded to my new email address, john.paulich@gray-robinson.com.
Please note this change in your address book.
It gives me great pleasure to announce that, effective May 19, 2014, my partner,
Casey Wolff, and I have joined the Florida law firm of GrayRobinson, P.A. as
shareholders. Our ongoing representation of you will not change. Clients will
see a gradual transfer to new phones, email, and website. We'll still be at
the same location, only the sign on the office door will reference our new firm.
Naturally, Mary Ellen and Pat will be joining us.
John Paulich, III, Esq.
Shareholder
GrayRobinson, P.A.
5147 Castello Drive
Naples, FL 34103
Main: 239-598-3601 | Fax: 239-598-3164
Email: john.paulich@gray-robinson.com
GRAY | ROBINSON
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Garry Stout" <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Email address change |
Please remove me from your email distribution list.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
john.paulich@gray-robinson.com
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 3:28 AM
Subject: RV-List: Email address change
Your email has been forwarded to my new email address,
john.paulich@gray-robinson.com. Please note this change in your address
book.
It gives me great pleasure to announce that, effective May 19, 2014, my
partner, Casey Wolff, and I have joined the Florida law firm of
GrayRobinson, P.A. as shareholders. Our ongoing representation of you will
not change. Clients will see a gradual transfer to new phones, email, and
website. We'll still be at the same location, only the sign on the office
door will reference our new firm. Naturally, Mary Ellen and Pat will be
joining us.
John Paulich, III, Esq.
Shareholder
GrayRobinson, P.A.
5147 Castello Drive
Naples, FL 34103
Main: 239-598-3601 | Fax: 239-598-3164
Email: john.paulich@gray-robinson.com
GRAY | ROBINSON
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)twc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Email address change |
You have to do that yourself directions are at the bottom of every email.
Sent from my Verizon iPhone
> On May 26, 2014, at 6:50 AM, "Garry Stout" wrote:
>
>
> Please remove me from your email distribution list.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> john.paulich@gray-robinson.com
> Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 3:28 AM
> To: RV-List Digest Server
> Subject: RV-List: Email address change
>
>
>
> Your email has been forwarded to my new email address,
> john.paulich@gray-robinson.com. Please note this change in your address
> book.
>
> It gives me great pleasure to announce that, effective May 19, 2014, my
> partner, Casey Wolff, and I have joined the Florida law firm of
> GrayRobinson, P.A. as shareholders. Our ongoing representation of you will
> not change. Clients will see a gradual transfer to new phones, email, and
> website. We'll still be at the same location, only the sign on the office
> door will reference our new firm. Naturally, Mary Ellen and Pat will be
> joining us.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> John Paulich, III, Esq.
> Shareholder
> GrayRobinson, P.A.
> 5147 Castello Drive
> Naples, FL 34103
> Main: 239-598-3601 | Fax: 239-598-3164
> Email: john.paulich@gray-robinson.com
> GRAY | ROBINSON
> ATTORNEYS AT LAW
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Email address change |
I wonder if he was speaking to John Paulich, instead of the rv list.
After a dozen or so emails from John Paulich, 'ESQuirt', telling the rv
list that he's changed law firms, I think that everyone on the list
should send Mr. Paulich a FAX letting him know that we know he's changed
jobs, & he can quit telling us. Maybe the pile of paper on the floor
under his fax machine would get his attention.
Charlie
On 5/26/2014 8:45 AM, Bobby Hester wrote:
>
> You have to do that yourself directions are at the bottom of every email.
>
> Sent from my Verizon iPhone
>
>> On May 26, 2014, at 6:50 AM, "Garry Stout" wrote:
>>
>>
>> Please remove me from your email distribution list.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> john.paulich@gray-robinson.com
>> Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 3:28 AM
>> To: RV-List Digest Server
>> Subject: RV-List: Email address change
>>
>>
>>
>> Your email has been forwarded to my new email address,
>> john.paulich@gray-robinson.com. Please note this change in your address
>> book.
>>
>> It gives me great pleasure to announce that, effective May 19, 2014, my
>> partner, Casey Wolff, and I have joined the Florida law firm of
>> GrayRobinson, P.A. as shareholders. Our ongoing representation of you will
>> not change. Clients will see a gradual transfer to new phones, email, and
>> website. We'll still be at the same location, only the sign on the office
>> door will reference our new firm. Naturally, Mary Ellen and Pat will be
>> joining us.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> John Paulich, III, Esq.
>> Shareholder
>> GrayRobinson, P.A.
>> 5147 Castello Drive
>> Naples, FL 34103
>> Main: 239-598-3601 | Fax: 239-598-3164
>> Email: john.paulich@gray-robinson.com
>> GRAY | ROBINSON
>> ATTORNEYS AT LAW
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <cheathco(at)cox.net> |
My 296 cig lighter power cord broke of at the plug in part into 296. I
had an extra one but it has disapeared. Anyone have one they are not
using that I could buy? Charlie RV6A Fayeteville, ar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john.paulich(at)gray-robinson.com" <jpaulich(at)pswpa.com> |
| Subject: | Email address change |
Your email has been forwarded to my new email address, john.paulich@gray-robinson.com.
Please note this change in your address book.
It gives me great pleasure to announce that, effective May 19, 2014, my partner,
Casey Wolff, and I have joined the Florida law firm of GrayRobinson, P.A. as
shareholders. Our ongoing representation of you will not change. Clients will
see a gradual transfer to new phones, email, and website. We'll still be at
the same location, only the sign on the office door will reference our new firm.
Naturally, Mary Ellen and Pat will be joining us.
John Paulich, III, Esq.
Shareholder
GrayRobinson, P.A.
5147 Castello Drive
Naples, FL 34103
Main: 239-598-3601 | Fax: 239-598-3164
Email: john.paulich@gray-robinson.com
GRAY | ROBINSON
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Hilditch" <wmjack1(at)t3cs.net> |
| Subject: | G 296 power cord |
Charlie,
There are a bunch of them listed for sale on eBay at:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0
<http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=Garmin+GPSMap+296+po
wer+cord&_nkwusc=Garmin+GPSMap+296++pwer+cord&_rdc=1>
&_from=R40&_nkw=Garmin+GPSMap+296+power+cord&_nkwusc=Garmin+GPSMap+296++pwer
+cord&_rdc=1
Jack
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of cheathco(at)cox.net
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 1:45 PM
Subject: RV-List: G 296 pwer cord
My 296 cig lighter power cord broke of at the plug in part into 296. I had
an extra one but it has disapeared. Anyone have one they are not using that
I could buy? Charlie RV6A Fayeteville, ar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Email address change |
| From: | Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net> |
Charlie I read your message below and came up with a different response.
I sent an email to John at his email address, contained in the post, and told him
he was clogging up the list. He responded almost immediately and said it has
been corrected.
Let's cut a little slack, we have all been tricked by various email systems haven't
we?
It is not usually too tough to be helpful instead of critical?
Hope this helps.
DLW
On 26May, 2014, at 7:55 , Charlie England wrote:
>
> I wonder if he was speaking to John Paulich, instead of the rv list. After a
dozen or so emails from John Paulich, 'ESQuirt', telling the rv list that he's
changed law firms, I think that everyone on the list should send Mr. Paulich
a FAX letting him know that we know he's changed jobs, & he can quit telling us.
Maybe the pile of paper on the floor under his fax machine would get his attention.
>
> Charlie
>
>
> On 5/26/2014 8:45 AM, Bobby Hester wrote:
>>
>> You have to do that yourself directions are at the bottom of every email.
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon iPhone
>>
>>> On May 26, 2014, at 6:50 AM, "Garry Stout" wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Please remove me from your email distribution list.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>>> john.paulich@gray-robinson.com
>>> Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 3:28 AM
>>> To: RV-List Digest Server
>>> Subject: RV-List: Email address change
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Your email has been forwarded to my new email address,
>>> john.paulich@gray-robinson.com. Please note this change in your address
>>> book.
>>>
>>> It gives me great pleasure to announce that, effective May 19, 2014, my
>>> partner, Casey Wolff, and I have joined the Florida law firm of
>>> GrayRobinson, P.A. as shareholders. Our ongoing representation of you will
>>> not change. Clients will see a gradual transfer to new phones, email, and
>>> website. We'll still be at the same location, only the sign on the office
>>> door will reference our new firm. Naturally, Mary Ellen and Pat will be
>>> joining us.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John Paulich, III, Esq.
>>> Shareholder
>>> GrayRobinson, P.A.
>>> 5147 Castello Drive
>>> Naples, FL 34103
>>> Main: 239-598-3601 | Fax: 239-598-3164
>>> Email: john.paulich@gray-robinson.com
>>> GRAY | ROBINSON
>>> ATTORNEYS AT LAW
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Email address change |
I agree that mistakes happen; it just seemed that he would have noticed
the problem & corrected it on his own by now. Perhaps he wasn't
receiving his own posts. However, when I looked in the archives, I
couldn't find any emails from his previous email address, which made the
current emails look a lot more like spam than a mistake.
Charlie
On 5/27/2014 8:38 AM, Denis Walsh wrote:
>
> Charlie I read your message below and came up with a different response.
>
> I sent an email to John at his email address, contained in the post, and told
him he was clogging up the list. He responded almost immediately and said it
has been corrected.
>
> Let's cut a little slack, we have all been tricked by various email systems haven't
we?
>
> It is not usually too tough to be helpful instead of critical?
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> DLW
> On 26May, 2014, at 7:55 , Charlie England wrote:
>
>>
>> I wonder if he was speaking to John Paulich, instead of the rv list. After a
dozen or so emails from John Paulich, 'ESQuirt', telling the rv list that he's
changed law firms, I think that everyone on the list should send Mr. Paulich
a FAX letting him know that we know he's changed jobs, & he can quit telling
us. Maybe the pile of paper on the floor under his fax machine would get his attention.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>> On 5/26/2014 8:45 AM, Bobby Hester wrote:
>>>
>>> You have to do that yourself directions are at the bottom of every email.
>>>
>>> Sent from my Verizon iPhone
>>>
>>>> On May 26, 2014, at 6:50 AM, "Garry Stout" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Please remove me from your email distribution list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>>> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>>>> john.paulich@gray-robinson.com
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 3:28 AM
>>>> To: RV-List Digest Server
>>>> Subject: RV-List: Email address change
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your email has been forwarded to my new email address,
>>>> john.paulich@gray-robinson.com. Please note this change in your address
>>>> book.
>>>>
>>>> It gives me great pleasure to announce that, effective May 19, 2014, my
>>>> partner, Casey Wolff, and I have joined the Florida law firm of
>>>> GrayRobinson, P.A. as shareholders. Our ongoing representation of you will
>>>> not change. Clients will see a gradual transfer to new phones, email, and
>>>> website. We'll still be at the same location, only the sign on the office
>>>> door will reference our new firm. Naturally, Mary Ellen and Pat will be
>>>> joining us.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John Paulich, III, Esq.
>>>> Shareholder
>>>> GrayRobinson, P.A.
>>>> 5147 Castello Drive
>>>> Naples, FL 34103
>>>> Main: 239-598-3601 | Fax: 239-598-3164
>>>> Email: john.paulich@gray-robinson.com
>>>> GRAY | ROBINSON
>>>> ATTORNEYS AT LAW
>>>>
>>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Induction leaks where and how did you find them |
Folks,
I'm still chasing a small induction leak impacting only my #1 cylinder.
I'm trying to list all of the potential places and methods of testing.
Places so far:
Upper injection port fitting or plug
Injection fitting assembly
Lower injection port fitting or plug
Intake runner in sump
Intake runner connecting hose
Intake runner pipe
Intake runner gasket at cylinder head
Valve cover gasket
Rocker arm oil drain fitting at engine case
Rocker arm oil drain fitting connection hose
Rocker arm oil drain fitting at cylinder head
(last four most likely with loose intake valve guide as a leak path contributor)
Testing methods so far:
Tighten worm clamp screws
Replace gasket
Replace hose
Spraying water on suspected area with engine running (DANGER WILL ROBINSON!)
Where have you found them and how have you found them?
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
RV6A N822AR "Patience" @ N06 with 210 hrs on IO360B1F6 with AFP Injection
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find them |
intake leaks .....
Clean out a shop-vac (really clean) that will hook up the hose to blow
instead of suck.
Put the hose in the intake and pack rags around it to help hold it in.
Turn on the shop-vac.
Spray soapy water all around the intake system. If the intake coupling
hoses are tight the next place is the tube that goes into the oil pan.
oil leaks
Same as above except put the hose in the oil filler tube and plug the
crankcase vent .... loosely.
Spray soapy water everywhere!!! May take a while for the air to force
the oil out of it's leak path.
Linn
On 5/27/2014 1:38 PM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> I'm still chasing a small induction leak impacting only my #1 cylinder.
> I'm trying to list all of the potential places and methods of testing.
>
> Places so far:
>
> Upper injection port fitting or plug
> Injection fitting assembly
> Lower injection port fitting or plug
> Intake runner in sump
> Intake runner connecting hose
> Intake runner pipe
> Intake runner gasket at cylinder head
> Valve cover gasket
> Rocker arm oil drain fitting at engine case
> Rocker arm oil drain fitting connection hose
> Rocker arm oil drain fitting at cylinder head
> (last four most likely with loose intake valve guide as a leak path contributor)
>
> Testing methods so far:
> Tighten worm clamp screws
> Replace gasket
> Replace hose
> Spraying water on suspected area with engine running (DANGER WILL ROBINSON!)
>
> Where have you found them and how have you found them?
>
> Thanks,
> Ralph Capen
> RV6A N822AR "Patience" @ N06 with 210 hrs on IO360B1F6 with AFP Injection
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Induction leaks where and how did you find them |
On 5/27/2014 12:38 PM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> I'm still chasing a small induction leak impacting only my #1 cylinder.
> I'm trying to list all of the potential places and methods of testing.
>
> Places so far:
>
> Upper injection port fitting or plug
> Injection fitting assembly
> Lower injection port fitting or plug
> Intake runner in sump
> Intake runner connecting hose
> Intake runner pipe
> Intake runner gasket at cylinder head
> Valve cover gasket
> Rocker arm oil drain fitting at engine case
> Rocker arm oil drain fitting connection hose
> Rocker arm oil drain fitting at cylinder head
> (last four most likely with loose intake valve guide as a leak path contributor)
>
> Testing methods so far:
> Tighten worm clamp screws
> Replace gasket
> Replace hose
> Spraying water on suspected area with engine running (DANGER WILL ROBINSON!)
>
> Where have you found them and how have you found them?
>
> Thanks,
> Ralph Capen
> RV6A N822AR "Patience" @ N06 with 210 hrs on IO360B1F6 with AFP Injection
>
Shop vac in blower mode on intake; soapy water on all the joints & other
potential leak points.
(Blower mode means plumb the output to the engine's intake; NOT as boost
for a running engine...)
:-)
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Flying to Baja advice needed |
| From: | John DeCuir <jadecuir(at)comcast.net> |
I was trying to gather up enough information in order to safely fly down to Gonzaga
Bay this month. The AOPA website had a lot of information, but it seemed
a bit restrictive, i.e., 12" numbers, FCC radio license. I know they change the
rules almost every year, but has anyone on the list been down there thru San
Felipe or Mexicali recently? I would like a checklist or step-by-step instructions
to get down there and back without getting into trouble with the authorities
on either side of the border. A source for Mexican insurance is also needed.
John DeCuir
N204CP, RV4
Salinas, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Reuven Silberman <pilots2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying to Baja advice needed |
John,=0A=0AI fly down to Baja and mainland Mexico almost every month in sup
port of various humanitarian medical missions in a 210 not my RV, although
I have flown my RV down there.- I would strongly suggest you join the Baj
a Bush Pilots Assoc as they have all the current info.- I am making the a
ssumption-that this is your first trip.- BEFORE you go you will need a
2014 US Customs sticker. They are not expensive but the only place you can
get them is on-line, and they take 2 to 3 weeks to get. Become familiar wit
h the TSA's- eApis flight planning (the Baja Bush Pilots can help with th
at).- You will need everyone's name as-it appears on their passport, pa
ssport number, date of birth, and address.--All of this needs to be sub
mitted to the TSA prior to leaving.- They check it against their double s
uper secret no fly list and (assuming all are OK) will send you emails indi
cating that you are free to-leave the country with those folks and-retu
rn with same. If
the passengers decide to-swap seats and ride back with someone else a ne
w eApis flight plan will need to be filed and-email-permission to retur
n to the-US with those passengers must be received.- Additionally, you
will need to file and International Border Crossing Flight Plan with Flight
Service. This is really simple just-let the FSS specialist-know that i
t is a border crossing flight plan.- You-should also file the return le
g as well (date and time your coming back).- There are 3 acceptable US ai
rports for returning GA flights- Brown Field (KSDM), Calexico (KCXL), or
-Yuma,-(KYUM). On your way back to the states AND above 5,000 ft (trans
mission / reception issue) you can contact FSS to update your arrival time.
- DO NOT BE EARLY! the customs guys with threaten you with a $5,000 fine,
late is OK.-=0A=0AAs for the Mexican side; -Your first time there they
will hit you up for an annual multi-entry permit which is about $60.- Th
ere will be minor airport landing and ATC fees. They will also have everyon
e fill out a visa form, there is a small charge for that to.- Any fee you
pay make sure you get a receipt.- Have small bills - nothing bigger than
a 20.- They generally do not give change - unless you are paying fees et
c in Pesos. By the way fuel is not significantly cheaper in MX.- Flight p
lan accordingly as-not all airport in Mexico have fuel.- Fuel is genera
lly available at Tijuana, San Felipe, Ensenada, then no gas until Loreto. O
ne thing that is unusual about MX flying is that you will be greeted at eac
h airport with Army guys with guns. Almost all of them do not speak English
.- They may or may not look inside the AC.- All they want is basic info
for their paperwork, name of pilot, passengers, where your coming from, wh
ere your going, etc.
then they will wander off. =0A=0AComing back into the US the US Customs gu
ys will want to see the 2014 sticker, aircraft registration, airworthiness
cert, your license and medical. Make sure all are in-order - or-5K fine
.-- =0A=0AI didn't want to make this response to long.- I have hit th
e highlights. Call me if you want to talk about Mexico flying.=0A=0AReuven
Silberman=0AN7WT-- 7A-- KSEE=0A858-254-3848--=0A=0AEnjoy life n
ow=0AIt has an expiration date. =0A=0A=0AOn Wednesday, May 28, 2014 7:32 AM
, John DeCuir wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0A--> RV-List messag
e posted by: John DeCuir =0A=0A=0AI was trying to gat
her up enough information in order to safely fly down to Gonzaga Bay this m
onth. The AOPA website had a lot of information, but it seemed a bit restri
ctive, i.e., 12" numbers, FCC radio license. I know they change the rules a
lmost every year, but has anyone on the list been down there thru San Felip
e or Mexicali recently? I would like a checklist or step-by-step instructio
ns to get down there and back without getting into trouble with the authori
ties on either side of the border. A source for Mexican insurance is also n
- - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Build space near San Jose |
| From: | Guy Cole <guycole(at)gmail.com> |
Hello, all. I have just accepted a job in Silicon Valley and I want to
bring my RV8 kit w/me. Since hangars are hunted to extinction, and homes
w/garages are out of reach, I am curious what other builders are doing for
build space. Thanks in advance for your advice.
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Guy Cole "Expert Plain And Fancy Bit Twiddling" guycole(at)gmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Lundquist <ka2kdb(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 06/15/14 |
PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME!
ka2kdb(at)optonline.net
Thank you
-----Original Message-----
From: RV-List Digest Server
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2014 3:02 AM
Subject: RV-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 06/15/14
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
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two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
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and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
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such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
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----------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable Routing With Front Mounted Governor... |
At 02:56 PM 6/18/2014 Wednesday, you wrote:
>--> RV7-List message posted by: "tfarrell839"
>
>Hi Matt,
>
> How's this working out for you in the long-run? Any issues?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tim
Hi Tim,
It worked out great! The only issue I had was heat from the engine causing some
stickige after about 20 hours or so. I replaced the cable and added two sleeves
of the firesleeve from FlyBoy Accessories and after 150 more hours never
had a problem. I'm not totally convinced that it was heat that caused the cable
to go bad. Could have been just manufactured poorly and started to stick for
other reasons.
Here's a link to the firesleeves I used:
http://www.flyboyaccessories.com/Fuel-Line-Heat-Rejection-Sleeve-p/2403.htm
Attached are a few pictures of my RV-8 installation with the firesleeves.
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 180+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | leaking nylo -seal fittings |
| From: | Thomas Sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
I have a pretty big leak in my static air system. I used nylo-seal
fittings throughout. I never know how tight to make them. How do you
know when to stop tightening? I just use my fingers. The leaking fitting is
a T screwed into my altimeter. I've tested all the components and when I
added the T, I added a leak.
Is there any point in putting teflon tape on the threads to improve the
seal? How about something like a little silicone sealant around base of
the fitting after it's screwed in?
Or do I just keep tightening the thing until it seals?
Thanks for any wisdom/experience on this subject.
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: leaking nylo -seal fittings |
Teflon tape on pipe threads (ie, into the back of instruments) will help a
lot. It won't help at all on the B-nuts. The threads that accept a B-nut
are different from the NPTs that go into instruments.
If you didn't use the little plastic inserts that go in the end of the
tubes, that makes a huge difference.
I like using a crow's foot to tighten nylon B-nuts. It's handy in cramped
quarters and keeps me from over doing the torque.
--Dave
On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 8:29 PM, Thomas Sargent wrote:
> I have a pretty big leak in my static air system. I used nylo-seal
> fittings throughout. I never know how tight to make them. How do you
> know when to stop tightening? I just use my fingers. The leaking fitting is
> a T screwed into my altimeter. I've tested all the components and when I
> added the T, I added a leak.
>
> Is there any point in putting teflon tape on the threads to improve the
> seal? How about something like a little silicone sealant around base of
> the fitting after it's screwed in?
>
> Or do I just keep tightening the thing until it seals?
>
> Thanks for any wisdom/experience on this subject.
> --
> Tom Sargent
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | leaking nylo -seal fittings |
The plastic inserts are required. I used these on two airplanes and
pitot static come out tight as a drum. Never found a need for tape on
the hose fitting side as the threads are not the seal =93 the
nylon ferrule that seats in the fitting is the seal. I do add some
Teflon pipe thread sealant (auto part store stuff) on the pipe thread
fittings that screw into instruments and such.
After you break off a nut or two by over tightening you quickly get a
sense of =9Ctight enough=9D.
Carl
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2014 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: leaking nylo -seal fittings
Teflon tape on pipe threads (ie, into the back of instruments) will help
a lot. It won't help at all on the B-nuts. The threads that accept a
B-nut are different from the NPTs that go into instruments.
If you didn't use the little plastic inserts that go in the end of the
tubes, that makes a huge difference.
I like using a crow's foot to tighten nylon B-nuts. It's handy in
cramped quarters and keeps me from over doing the torque.
--Dave
On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 8:29 PM, Thomas Sargent
wrote:
I have a pretty big leak in my static air system. I used nylo-seal
fittings throughout. I never know how tight to make them. How do you
know when to stop tightening? I just use my fingers. The leaking fitting
is a T screwed into my altimeter. I've tested all the components and
when I added the T, I added a leak.
Is there any point in putting teflon tape on the threads to improve the
seal? How about something like a little silicone sealant around base of
the fitting after it's screwed in?
Or do I just keep tightening the thing until it seals?
Thanks for any wisdom/experience on this subject.
--
Tom Sargent
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leaking nylo -seal fittings |
| From: | Thomas Sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
I am using the insert on th 1/4" poly tubing. By "insert" I mean the little
"sleeve that fits over the tubing, not the other free floating piece that
goes inside the fitting. However, that's not the part that's leaking (I
think). The "nut" isn't leaking. it's the NPT part that screws into the
instrument. I'm pretty sure about this. I should devise an experiment to
prove my thinking.
It was my understanding that the free-floating inserts are not necessary
except with certain kinds of tubing. Maybe I misunderstand that. Do you
always have to use the insert?
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leaking nylo -seal fittings |
| From: | don van santen <donvansanten(at)gmail.com> |
Nylo-seal claims the inserts are not needed with their tubing. Do not
believe them. Most people do not use the correct cutter for the tubing and
if the cut is not a perfect 90 degrees it will leak unless you use the
insert. Just use the insert and you will never have a leak except from the
NEW threads. Use Teflon tape or sealant there.
On Jun 23, 2014 9:13 AM, "Thomas Sargent" wrote:
>
>
> I am using the insert on th 1/4" poly tubing. By "insert" I mean the
little "sleeve that fits over the tubing, not the other free floating piece
that goes inside the fitting. However, that's not the part that's leaking
(I think). The "nut" isn't leaking. it's the NPT part that screws into the
instrument. I'm pretty sure about this. I should devise an experiment to
prove my thinking.
>
> It was my understanding that the free-floating inserts are not necessary
except with certain kinds of tubing. Maybe I misunderstand that. Do you
always have to use the insert?
>
>
> --
> Tom Sargent
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leaking nylo -seal fittings |
| From: | vanremog(at)aol.com |
SSd2ZSBmb3VuZCB0aGF0IExvY3RpdGUgUFNUIHdvcmtzIHdlbGwgaW4gdGhpcyBhcHBsaWNhdGlv
bgoKU2VudCBmcm9tIG15IFZlcml6b24gV2lyZWxlc3MgNEcgTFRFIERST0lECgpUaG9tYXMgU2Fy
Z2VudCA8c2FyZzMxNEBnbWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOgoKPgo+Cj4KPkkgYW0gdXNpbmcgdGhlIGlu
c2VydCBvbiB0aCAxLzQiIHBvbHkgdHViaW5nLiBCeSAiaW5zZXJ0IiBJIG1lYW4gdGhlIGxpdHRs
ZSAic2xlZXZlIHRoYXQgZml0cyBvdmVyIHRoZSB0dWJpbmcsIG5vdCB0aGUgb3RoZXIgZnJlZSBm
bG9hdGluZyBwaWVjZSB0aGF0IGdvZXMgaW5zaWRlIHRoZSBmaXR0aW5nLsKgIEhvd2V2ZXIsIHRo
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J3QgbGVha2luZy4gaXQncyB0aGUgTlBUIHBhcnQgdGhhdCBzY3Jld3MgaW50byB0aGUgaW5zdHJ1
bWVudC7CoCBJJ20gcHJldHR5IHN1cmUgYWJvdXQgdGhpcy7CoCBJIHNob3VsZCBkZXZpc2UgYW4g
ZXhwZXJpbWVudCB0byBwcm92ZSBteSB0aGlua2luZy4gCj4KPkl0IHdhcyBteSB1bmRlcnN0YW5k
aW5nIHRoYXQgdGhlIGZyZWUtZmxvYXRpbmcgaW5zZXJ0cyBhcmUgbm90IG5lY2Vzc2FyeSBleGNl
cHQgd2l0aCBjZXJ0YWluIGtpbmRzIG9mIHR1YmluZy7CoCBNYXliZSBJIG1pc3VuZGVyc3RhbmQg
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b20gU2FyZ2VudCAKPgo+Xy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09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=
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leaking nylo -seal fittings |
| From: | don van santen <donvansanten(at)gmail.com> |
NPT
On Jun 23, 2014 9:22 AM, "don van santen" wrote:
> Nylo-seal claims the inserts are not needed with their tubing. Do not
> believe them. Most people do not use the correct cutter for the tubing and
> if the cut is not a perfect 90 degrees it will leak unless you use the
> insert. Just use the insert and you will never have a leak except from the
> NEW threads. Use Teflon tape or sealant there.
> On Jun 23, 2014 9:13 AM, "Thomas Sargent" wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > I am using the insert on th 1/4" poly tubing. By "insert" I mean the
> little "sleeve that fits over the tubing, not the other free floating piece
> that goes inside the fitting. However, that's not the part that's leaking
> (I think). The "nut" isn't leaking. it's the NPT part that screws into the
> instrument. I'm pretty sure about this. I should devise an experiment to
> prove my thinking.
> >
> > It was my understanding that the free-floating inserts are not necessary
> except with certain kinds of tubing. Maybe I misunderstand that. Do you
> always have to use the insert?
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tom Sargent
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: leaking nylo -seal fittings |
Tom,
I said insert but I should have said "tube support". They look like this:
[image: Inline image 1]
=8BThey fit inside the end of the tube.
You're right, according to a note from McMaster-Carr, they aren't needed
for harder tubing=8B:
"Tube supports are recommended for polypropylene, polyethylene, and nylon
tubing with a hardness of Shore A70 or less".
I tubing I prefer is pretty soft, almost rubbery. I use tube supports
anywhere there's a B-nut.
If you have some smooth-jawed vice grips or some other clamp, you can clamp
pinch the tubing to isolate various sections as you chase down the leak.
--Dave
On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Thomas Sargent wrote:
>
>
> I am using the insert on th 1/4" poly tubing. By "insert" I mean the
> little "sleeve that fits over the tubing, not the other free floating pie
ce
> that goes inside the fitting. However, that's not the part that's leakin
g
> (I think). The "nut" isn't leaking. it's the NPT part that screws into th
e
> instrument. I'm pretty sure about this. I should devise an experiment t
o
> prove my thinking.
>
> It was my understanding that the free-floating inserts are not necessary
> except with certain kinds of tubing. Maybe I misunderstand that. Do you
> always have to use the insert?
>
>
> --
> Tom Sargent
>
> *
>
===========
ics.com/Navigator?RV-List>
===========
===========
om/contribution>
===========
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Rounding The Bottom Flange Of Baggage Door... |
For the RV-8 Rebuild I decided to build a new front baggage door for a
number of reasons. The main reason was due to the less than stellar job I
did with the bottom flange that intersects with the top of the fuselage.
On the Ruby 1.0, when I finished the baggage door, I found that the bottom
flange of the baggage door was sticking out away from the fuselage by about
3/16" and just looked stupid. At that point the door was already built, so
the only option I really had was try to put a bend in it using the bending
brake. The bend came out fine, but from the first flight to the mishap, I
always hated the way that crease looked since it didn't match the rest of
the fuselage.
So, on Ruby 2.0 I decided I was going to make a new door and hoped that the
first one was just a fluke. Unfortunately, after I finished door #2 I
found that I had exactly the same problem with the 3/16" gap at the bottom!
Rather than using the brake, this time I clamped the flange between two
1/4" thick pieces of oak wood and tried to bend and stretch it so as to not
leave a crease. The good news was that I did get a better fit and the
crease was much less, but the bad news was that I didn't use enough clamps
and the bend came out inconsistent front to back and, frankly looked a lot
worse that the original one. Rats. Another one for the scrape pile.
So, I ordered up another pile of parts to build a third baggage door. But
this time, before I did any building, I decided to try to get the fit
better right out of the gate and while I still had just a single flat skin
and no bulkhead structure underneath. I worked though in my head a dozen
different ways that I might put a creaseless bend in the bottom 1" of
flange on the door, but nothing seemed like it would really work. Then I
remembered that my piece-of-crap-Chinese-made combination shear/brake also
had a roller on it! But I didn't get too excited, because I'd never really
used the roller because they just seemed like a bigger piece of crap than
the rest of the tool. Today, I decided to take a closer looks and figure
out just what tweaking I'd need to do to get the rollers working.
The first thing I discovered was that the rollers still had the anti-rust,
shipping compound on them which made them very uneven and not too
consistent for grabbing. I broke out the Acetone and some paper towels and
gave them a good cleaning. Turns out, the rollers were pretty well made
and smooth, once all the gunk was removed. Next, I fiddled around with the
adjustment arms that vary the distance of the rear roller from the front
rollers. This distance gives you looser or tighter bend radii depending on
their position. But you have to make sure that the distance is exactly the
same left-to-right if you want a consistent bend radius. I used a digital
caliper and got things dialed in pretty well and used a few sample pieces
of .032 2024-T3 to test. In the testing, I found that I could get just the
right amount of bend that seemed like it was fitting nicely along the
baggage door mounting. So, next, I grabbed the real piece of metal for the
top baggage door skin and ran the first 4" or so though the roller from the
front. Then I took it out and put it in from behind and ran it though the
rollers again which seemed to even the bend out nicely. A trial fit on the
fuselage and lo' in behold it was a lot closer that it had been. I
adjusted the rollers again for a little bit more bend and repeated the
bending process. Even closer this time. One more tightening and the fit
was literally perfect! Best of all, from the outside of the baggage door
skin, there is NO crease! The natural bend of the door that matches the
fuselage top skin simple accelerates evenly over the last 1-2" of the skin
which is just right for making a perfect fit and seal with the top of the
fuselage.
So, I'm happy to report that I think I will finally have an acceptable
baggage door for the RV-8. 'Course, I now I have to build this new one
using the freshly rebent skin, during which time there is always lots of
opportunity to slip with the rivet gun or whatever and cause a catastrophe
that would require a forth attempt. But, let's not focus on that... :-)
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 200+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer
Mode
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 70 psi compression |
| From: | Thomas Sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
In the last compression test of my IO-360, after running the engine only a
minute or two, showed 70 psi on cyl #4. The A&P doing the measurement
removed the dip stick and listened at the oil filler pipe. He could hear
hissing which he says means it's leaking past the rings, which didn't seem
to bother him much. Only 130 SMOH. Not using any oil.
Is it worth repeating the measurement after flying the thing a few hours?
I've been told the gaps in the rings can line up and affect the measurement.
Should I have run the engine longer than a couple minutes before doing the
measurement?
How low is "low"? At what point do I have to rebuild/replace the cylinder?
Thanks for any info/opinions/war stories.
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 70 psi compression |
I'm no engine guru but my experience is free .....
On 6/25/2014 3:45 PM, Thomas Sargent wrote:
> In the last compression test of my IO-360, after running the engine
> only a minute or two, showed 70 psi on cyl #4. The A&P doing the
> measurement removed the dip stick and listened at the oil filler pipe.
> He could hear hissing which he says means it's leaking past the rings,
> which didn't seem to bother him much. Only 130 SMOH. Not using any oil.
>
> Is it worth repeating the measurement after flying the thing a few
> hours? I've been told the gaps in the rings can line up and affect
> the measurement.
I'd run it again ...... a short flight around the patch should do it
..... and the gaps aligning is possible, but IMHO not probable.
>
> Should I have run the engine longer than a couple minutes before doing
> the measurement?
I would, just to get the cylinder temps up a bit.
>
> How low is "low"? At what point do I have to rebuild/replace the
> cylinder?
That's up to your A&P/IA .... but I believe 60 is a worry point.
>
> Thanks for any info/opinions/war stories.
> --
> Tom Sargent
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | 70 psi compression |
I would throw this measurement away.
Go fly the airplane and get all engine up to normal temperatures then
redo the compression test. Do not be surprised if a cylinder changes ~2
psi or so from test to test. Log the results in the engine log book
after each test. I typically do a compression test at each oil change,
but not less than at each annual. If you don=99t have a
compression tester then perhaps you should. This is something I view as
a standard maintenance tool =93 and are available at ACS for less
than $100.
Attached is the Lycoming SI on this.
Carl
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Sargent
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 3:45 PM
Subject: RV-List: 70 psi compression
In the last compression test of my IO-360, after running the engine only
a minute or two, showed 70 psi on cyl #4. The A&P doing the measurement
removed the dip stick and listened at the oil filler pipe. He could hear
hissing which he says means it's leaking past the rings, which didn't
seem to bother him much. Only 130 SMOH. Not using any oil.
Is it worth repeating the measurement after flying the thing a few
hours? I've been told the gaps in the rings can line up and affect the
measurement.
Should I have run the engine longer than a couple minutes before doing
the measurement?
How low is "low"? At what point do I have to rebuild/replace the
cylinder?
Thanks for any info/opinions/war stories.
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 70 psi compression |
| From: | Vincent Himsl <vshimsl(at)live.com> |
Thanks for the document!
VinceH
RV8-flying
--- Original Message ---
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>
Sent: June 25=2C 2014 1:28 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: 70 psi compression
I would throw this measurement away.
Go fly the airplane and get all engine up to normal temperatures then redo
the compression test. Do not be surprised if a cylinder changes ~2 psi or
so from test to test. Log the results in the engine log book after each te
st. I typically do a compression test at each oil change=2C but not less t
han at each annual. If you don=99t have a compression tester then pe
rhaps you should. This is something I view as a standard maintenance tool
=93 and are available at ACS for less than $100.
Attached is the Lycoming SI on this.
Carl
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matro
nics.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Sargent
Sent: Wednesday=2C June 25=2C 2014 3:45 PM
Subject: RV-List: 70 psi compression
In the last compression test of my IO-360=2C after running the engine only
a minute or two=2C showed 70 psi on cyl #4. The A&P doing the measurement
removed the dip stick and listened at the oil filler pipe. He could hear hi
ssing which he says means it's leaking past the rings=2C which didn't seem
to bother him much. Only 130 SMOH. Not using any oil.
Is it worth repeating the measurement after flying the thing a few hours?
I've been told the gaps in the rings can line up and affect the measurement
.
Should I have run the engine longer than a couple minutes before doing the
measurement?
How low is "low"? At what point do I have to rebuild/replace the cylinder
?
Thanks for any info/opinions/war stories.
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 70 psi compression |
I assume we are talking an experimental here, so no IA involvement
needed, just A&P for condition inspection if you are not the builder.
If the only leakage is past the rings, oil consumption will guide you to
when you feel the need to do something about the cylinder.
I would fly the engine hard for at least 10 hours, to see if the rings
did not fully seat on that cylinder. Running it at 75% or even a bit
higher, as long as you keep cylinder temps below 400 will not hurt
anything, and may get those rings seated. 70/80 is nothing to worry
about. Maybe a bit low for as low a time engine as you havel
As long as the leakage is not from a valve you can go down below 50/80
and still make full rated power.
Kelly
A&P/IA
EAA Tech Counselor
On 6/25/2014 12:58 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
> I'm no engine guru but my experience is free .....
> How low is "low"? At what point do I have to rebuild/replace the
> cylinder?
> That's up to your A&P/IA .... but I believe 60 is a worry point.*\\*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 70 psi compression |
| From: | Thomas Sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks for all the good information.
Reading the Lycoming Service instructions, I should note that cyl#1 showed
88psi. I was doing the test as part of the annual inspection. Last year
they were all in the 72 - 78 range I think. What does an anomalously high
reading indicate? Off hand I would have guessed that the higher the
better, but apparently not. Lyc. says more than 15psi difference is trouble.
I think I need to repeat this whole test soon after actually flying the
plane.
I'm still finishing the annual, I haven't flown it for a couple weeks.
>
>
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Greenley" <wgreenley(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | 70 psi compression |
An 88 means something is wrong with the equipment or the methodology.
The max is 80 with the standardized orifice.
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Sargent
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: 70 psi compression
Thanks for all the good information.
Reading the Lycoming Service instructions, I should note that cyl#1
showed 88psi. I was doing the test as part of the annual inspection.
Last year they were all in the 72 - 78 range I think. What does an
anomalously high reading indicate? Off hand I would have guessed that
the higher the better, but apparently not. Lyc. says more than 15psi
difference is trouble.
I think I need to repeat this whole test soon after actually flying the
plane.
I'm still finishing the annual, I haven't flown it for a couple weeks.
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 70 psi compression |
Since the test rig provides regulated 80 psi input (if properly adjusted), y
our 88/80 reading makes no sense. In other words zero leakage means you wou
ld read 80/80. I suspect the test was done wrong.
Carl
> On Jun 25, 2014, at 7:10 PM, Thomas Sargent wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for all the good information.
>
> Reading the Lycoming Service instructions, I should note that cyl#1 showed
88psi. I was doing the test as part of the annual inspection. Last year th
ey were all in the 72 - 78 range I think. What does an anomalously high rea
ding indicate? Off hand I would have guessed that the higher the better, bu
t apparently not. Lyc. says more than 15psi difference is trouble.
>
> I think I need to repeat this whole test soon after actually flying the pl
ane.
>
> I'm still finishing the annual, I haven't flown it for a couple weeks.
>
>
>
> --
> Tom Sargent
> is
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 70 psi compression |
| From: | vanremog(at)aol.com |
Just a wild question since no one has asked it...How can one get an 88 psig
aircraft bleed down type compression reading with 80 psig supplied air?
-----Original Message-----
From: William Greenley <wgreenley(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Jun 25, 2014 4:26 pm
Subject: RE: RV-List: 70 psi compression
An 88 means something is wrong with the equipment or the methodology. The m
ax is 80 with the standardized orifice.
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matro
nics.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Sargent
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: 70 psi compression
Thanks for all the good information.
Reading the Lycoming Service instructions, I should note that cyl#1 showed
88psi. I was doing the test as part of the annual inspection. Last year th
ey were all in the 72 - 78 range I think. What does an anomalously high re
ading indicate? Off hand I would have guessed that the higher the better,
but apparently not. Lyc. says more than 15psi difference is trouble.
I think I need to repeat this whole test soon after actually flying the pla
ne.
I'm still finishing the annual, I haven't flown it for a couple weeks.
--
Tom Sargent
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 70 psi compression |
One needs to check the calibration of the compression tester. Easy way
is to not connect the hose to the cylinder, then crank the primary gauge
up to 80. The secondary should read 80 also. If more than a pound or so
in either direction it needs to be recalibrated.
88 over 80 is not physically possible. 80/80 is the absolute best you
can get.
On 6/25/2014 4:10 PM, Thomas Sargent wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the good information.
>
> Reading the Lycoming Service instructions, I should note that cyl#1
> showed 88psi. I was doing the test as part of the annual inspection.
> Last year they were all in the 72 - 78 range I think. What does an
> anomalously high reading indicate? Off hand I would have guessed that
> the higher the better, but apparently not. Lyc. says more than 15psi
> difference is trouble.
>
> I think I need to repeat this whole test soon after actually flying
> the plane.
>
> I'm still finishing the annual, I haven't flown it for a couple weeks.
>
>
> --
> Tom Sargent
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 70 psi compression |
On 6/25/2014 9:44 PM, vanremog(at)aol.com wrote:
> Just a wild question since no one has asked it...How can one get an 88
> psig aircraft bleed down type compression reading with 80 psig
> supplied air?
You can't if you use the differential gauge properly. I can only
surmise that 88 was a typo.
Linn
> -----Original Message-----
> From: William Greenley <wgreenley(at)gmail.com>
> To: rv-list
> Sent: Wed, Jun 25, 2014 4:26 pm
> Subject: RE: RV-List: 70 psi compression
>
> An 88 means something is wrong with the equipment or the methodology.
> The max is 80 with the standardized orifice.
> *From:*owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Thomas
> Sargent
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 25, 2014 7:11 PM
> *To:* rv-list
> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: 70 psi compression
> Thanks for all the good information.
>
> Reading the Lycoming Service instructions, I should note that cyl#1
> showed 88psi. I was doing the test as part of the annual inspection.
> Last year they were all in the 72 - 78 range I think. What does an
> anomalously high reading indicate? Off hand I would have guessed that
> the higher the better, but apparently not. Lyc. says more than 15psi
> difference is trouble.
>
> I think I need to repeat this whole test soon after actually flying
> the plane.
>
> I'm still finishing the annual, I haven't flown it for a couple weeks.
>
>
> --
> Tom Sargent
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List*
> **
> **
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> **
> * *
> *
>
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 70 psi compression |
| From: | Thomas Sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
Well 88 may well be a mistake, but that's what the A&P said. He seemed a
bit baffled. I have my own compression tester now. I will do it myself
next time.
On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
> On 6/25/2014 9:44 PM, vanremog(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Just a wild question since no one has asked it...How can one get an 88
> psig aircraft bleed down type compression reading with 80 psig supplied air?
>
> You can't if you use the differential gauge properly. I can only
> surmise that 88 was a typo.
> Linn
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: William Greenley <wgreenley(at)gmail.com> <wgreenley(at)gmail.com>
> To: rv-list
> Sent: Wed, Jun 25, 2014 4:26 pm
> Subject: RE: RV-List: 70 psi compression
>
> An 88 means something is wrong with the equipment or the methodology.
> The max is 80 with the standardized orifice.
>
> *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [
> mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Thomas Sargent
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 25, 2014 7:11 PM
> *To:* rv-list
> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: 70 psi compression
>
>
> Thanks for all the good information.
>
> Reading the Lycoming Service instructions, I should note that cyl#1 showed
> 88psi. I was doing the test as part of the annual inspection. Last year
> they were all in the 72 - 78 range I think. What does an anomalously high
> reading indicate? Off hand I would have guessed that the higher the
> better, but apparently not. Lyc. says more than 15psi difference is trouble.
>
> I think I need to repeat this whole test soon after actually flying the
> plane.
>
> I'm still finishing the annual, I haven't flown it for a couple weeks.
>
>
> --
> Tom Sargent
>
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List *
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution *
>
>
> *
>
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 70 psi compression |
| From: | Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
Be careful. Two-man job to do safely... 80 psi into one jug can be deadly
if the prop gets away from you and your noggin is in the way.
IIRC, the trend in the "literature" is away from compression testing
altogether and toward boroscopy as a means of assessing engine health.
--kind of like internal like medicine... the old standards of screening are
giving way to the $$ passing-of-scopes $$ into various body cavities.
-Stormy
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Thomas Sargent wrote:
> Well 88 may well be a mistake, but that's what the A&P said. He seemed a
> bit baffled. I have my own compression tester now. I will do it myself
> next time.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Linn Walters
> wrote:
>
>> On 6/25/2014 9:44 PM, vanremog(at)aol.com wrote:
>>
>> Just a wild question since no one has asked it...How can one get an 88
>> psig aircraft bleed down type compression reading with 80 psig supplied air?
>>
>> You can't if you use the differential gauge properly. I can only
>> surmise that 88 was a typo.
>> Linn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: William Greenley <wgreenley(at)gmail.com> <wgreenley(at)gmail.com>
>> To: rv-list
>> Sent: Wed, Jun 25, 2014 4:26 pm
>> Subject: RE: RV-List: 70 psi compression
>>
>> An 88 means something is wrong with the equipment or the methodology.
>> The max is 80 with the standardized orifice.
>>
>> *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [
>> mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> ] *On Behalf Of *Thomas Sargent
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 25, 2014 7:11 PM
>> *To:* rv-list
>> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: 70 psi compression
>>
>>
>> Thanks for all the good information.
>>
>> Reading the Lycoming Service instructions, I should note that cyl#1
>> showed 88psi. I was doing the test as part of the annual inspection. Last
>> year they were all in the 72 - 78 range I think. What does an anomalously
>> high reading indicate? Off hand I would have guessed that the higher the
>> better, but apparently not. Lyc. says more than 15psi difference is trouble.
>>
>> I think I need to repeat this whole test soon after actually flying the
>> plane.
>>
>> I'm still finishing the annual, I haven't flown it for a couple weeks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tom Sargent
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List *
>>
>> *http://forums.matronics.com *
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution *
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Tom Sargent
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 70 psi compression |
Not really. Until Appendix D of Part 43 gets re-written, compression
tests are mandatory for both certified and experimental aircraft. Item
(d) (3) of the appendix requires compression test, and AFAIK most all
experimental operating limitations require condition inspect that meets
requirements of Appendix D as a minimum. Yes, borescope is good addition
to checking cylinder health, but FAA does not recognize it as a complete
substitute.
IF one gains the experience to get a cylinder to TDC there will be no
force on the prop. But allowing it to go very many degrees either side
of TDC generates a dangerous force in the prop. I position prop near
TDC, dial up about 20psi while adjusting prop for minimum to no force
at the prop, then bring the pressure on up to 80. I also make sure to
hold prop such that if it got away from me it would hurt nothing.
Especially keep rest of body besides hand outside the prop arc.I don't
even pick up compression tester until I have prop in safe position.
On 6/26/2014 8:27 AM, Bill Boyd wrote:
> Be careful. Two-man job to do safely... 80 psi into one jug can be
> deadly if the prop gets away from you and your noggin is in the way.
>
> IIRC, the trend in the "literature" is away from compression testing
> altogether and toward boroscopy as a means of assessing engine health.
> --kind of like internal like medicine... the old standards of
> screening are giving way to the $$ passing-of-scopes $$ into various
> body cavities.
>
> -Stormy
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Thomas Sargent > wrote:
>
> Well 88 may well be a mistake, but that's what the A&P said. He
> seemed a bit baffled. I have my own compression tester now. I
> will do it myself next time.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Linn Walters
> > wrote:
>
> On 6/25/2014 9:44 PM, vanremog(at)aol.com
> wrote:
>> Just a wild question since no one has asked it...How can one
>> get an 88 psig aircraft bleed down type compression reading
>> with 80 psig supplied air?
> You can't if you use the differential gauge properly. I can
> only surmise that 88 was a typo.
> Linn
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: William Greenley <wgreenley(at)gmail.com>
>>
>> To: rv-list
>>
>> Sent: Wed, Jun 25, 2014 4:26 pm
>> Subject: RE: RV-List: 70 psi compression
>>
>> An 88 means something is wrong with the equipment or the
>> methodology. The max is 80 with the standardized orifice.
>> *From:*owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>
>> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> ] *On Behalf Of
>> *Thomas Sargent
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 25, 2014 7:11 PM
>> *To:* rv-list
>> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: 70 psi compression
>> Thanks for all the good information.
>>
>> Reading the Lycoming Service instructions, I should note that
>> cyl#1 showed 88psi. I was doing the test as part of the
>> annual inspection. Last year they were all in the 72 - 78
>> range I think. What does an anomalously high reading
>> indicate? Off hand I would have guessed that the higher the
>> better, but apparently not. Lyc. says more than 15psi
>> difference is trouble.
>>
>> I think I need to repeat this whole test soon after actually
>> flying the plane.
>>
>> I'm still finishing the annual, I haven't flown it for a
>> couple weeks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tom Sargent
>> * *
>> * *
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List*
>> **
>> **
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>> **
>> * *
>> *
>>
>> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
> *
>
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> --
> Tom Sargent
>
> *
>
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leaking nylo -seal fittings |
| From: | Thomas Sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
Dave:
Yes, that was my main problem. A few of the fittings didn't have the "tube
support". That and some teflon tape on the T's that screwed into the
instruments fixed the problem.
On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 9:41 AM, Dave Saylor <
dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> wrote:
> Tom,
>
> I said insert but I should have said "tube support". They look like this
:
>
> [image: Inline image 1]
>
> =8BThey fit inside the end of the tube.
>
> You're right, according to a note from McMaster-Carr, they aren't needed
> for harder tubing=8B:
>
> "Tube supports are recommended for polypropylene, polyethylene, and nylon
> tubing with a hardness of Shore A70 or less".
>
> I tubing I prefer is pretty soft, almost rubbery. I use tube supports
> anywhere there's a B-nut.
>
> If you have some smooth-jawed vice grips or some other clamp, you can
> clamp pinch the tubing to isolate various sections as you chase down the
> leak.
>
> --Dave
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Thomas Sargent wrote
:
>
>>
>>
>> I am using the insert on th 1/4" poly tubing. By "insert" I mean the
>> little "sleeve that fits over the tubing, not the other free floating pi
ece
>> that goes inside the fitting. However, that's not the part that's leaki
ng
>> (I think). The "nut" isn't leaking. it's the NPT part that screws into t
he
>> instrument. I'm pretty sure about this. I should devise an experiment
to
>> prove my thinking.
>>
>> It was my understanding that the free-floating inserts are not necessary
>> except with certain kinds of tubing. Maybe I misunderstand that. Do you
>> always have to use the insert?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tom Sargent
>>
>> *
>>
>> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Luckey <jluckey(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 70 psi compression |
In addition to the regs - I can't see how a visual inspection w/ a bore sco
pe/camera would be a good substitute for actually testing seals by putting
actual air pressure on them.- I don't think the Compression Test is going
to disappear anytime soon - it's such a great diagnostic.=0A=0A-Jeff=0A=0A
=0A=0AOn Thursday, June 26, 2014 12:36 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.
ym(at)aviating.com>=0A=0ANot really. Until Appendix D of Part 43 gets re-writt
en, compression =0Atests are mandatory for both certified and experimental
aircraft. Item =0A(d) (3) of the appendix requires compression test, and AF
AIK most all =0Aexperimental operating limitations require condition inspec
t that meets =0Arequirements of Appendix D as a minimum. Yes, borescope is
good addition =0Ato checking cylinder health, but FAA does not recognize it
as a complete =0Asubstitute.=0AIF one gains the experience to get a cylind
er to TDC there will be no =0Aforce on the prop. But allowing it to go very
many degrees either side =0Aof TDC generates a dangerous force in the prop
. I position prop near =0ATDC, dial up about 20psi while adjusting prop for
minimum- to no force =0Aat the prop, then bring the pressure on up to 80
. I also make sure to =0Ahold prop such that if it got away from me it woul
d hurt nothing. =0AEspecially keep rest of body besides hand outside the pr
op arc.I don't =0Aeven pick up compression tester until I have prop in safe
position.=0A=0AOn 6/26/2014 8:27 AM, Bill Boyd wrote:=0A> Be careful.- T
wo-man job to do safely... 80 psi into one jug can be =0A> deadly if the pr
op gets away from you and your noggin is in the way.=0A>=0A> IIRC, the tren
d in the "literature" is away from compression testing =0A> altogether and
toward boroscopy as a means of assessing engine health.=0A> --kind of like
internal like medicine... the old standards of =0A> screening are giving wa
y to the $$ passing-of-scopes $$ into various =0A> body cavities.=0A>=0A> -
Stormy=0A>=0A>=0A> On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Thomas Sargent > wrote:=0A>=0A>- - Well 88
may well be a mistake, but that's what the A&P said.- He=0A>- - see
med a bit baffled.- I have my own compression tester now.- I=0A>- -
will do it myself next time.=0A>=0A>=0A>- - On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at
8:11 PM, Linn Walters=0A>- - @cfl.rr.com>> wrote:=0A>=0A>- - - - On 6/25/2014 9:44 PM, vanremog
(at)aol.com=0A>- - - - wrote:=0A>>- -
- - Just a wild question since no one has asked it...How can one=0A>>
- - - - get an 88 psig aircraft bleed down type compression readin
g=0A>>- - - - with 80 psig supplied air?=0A>- - - - You c
an't if you use the differential gauge properly. I can=0A>- - - -
only surmise that 88 was a typo.=0A>- - - - Linn=0A>>- - -
- -----Original Message-----=0A>>- - - - From: William Greenley
=0A>>- - - - =0A
>>- - - - To: rv-list =0A>>- - - -
=0A>>- - - - Sent: Wed, Jun 25, 201
4 4:26 pm=0A>>- - - - Subject: RE: RV-List: 70 psi compression=0A>
>=0A>>- - - - An 88 means something is wrong with the equipment or
the=0A>>- - - - methodology. The max is 80 with the standardized
orifice.=0A>>- - - - *From:*owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com=0A>
>- - - - =0A>>- -
- - [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com=0A>>- - - - ] *On Behalf Of=0A>>- - -
- *Thomas Sargent=0A>>- - - - *Sent:* Wednesday, June 25, 2014
7:11 PM=0A>>- - - - *To:* rv-list=0A>>- - - - *Subject:*
Re: RV-List: 70 psi compression=0A>>- - - - Thanks for all the goo
d information.=0A>>=0A>>- - - - Reading the Lycoming Service instr
uctions, I should note that=0A>>- - - - cyl#1 showed 88psi.- I w
as doing the test as part of the=0A>>- - - - annual inspection. La
st year they were all in the 72 - 78=0A>>- - - - range I think. Wh
at does an anomalously high reading=0A>>- - - - indicate?- Off h
and I would have guessed that the higher the=0A>>- - - - better, b
ut apparently not. Lyc. says more than 15psi=0A>>- - - - differenc
e is trouble.=0A>>=0A>>- - - - I think I need to repeat this whole
test soon after actually=0A>>- - - - flying the plane.=0A>>=0A>>
- - - - I'm still finishing the annual, I haven't flown it for a
=0A>>- - - - couple weeks.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>- - - -
-- =0A>>- - - - Tom Sargent=0A>>- - - - *- *=0A>>-
- - - *- *=0A>>- - - - **=0A>>- - - - **=0A>>-
- - - **=0A>>- - - - **=0A>>- - - - **=0A>>-
- - - *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List*=0A>>- - -
- **=0A>>- - - - **=0A>>- - - - *http://forums.matroni
cs.com*=0A>>- - - - **=0A>>- - - - **=0A>>- - - -
**=0A>>- - - - **=0A>>- - - - *http://www.matronics.com
/contribution*=0A>>- - - - **=0A>>- - - - *- *=0A>>-
- - - *=0A>>=0A>>- - - - t="_blank">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?RV-List=0A>>- - - - tp://forums.matronics.com- =0A>>- - - - _blank">http://www.matronic
s.com/contribution=0A>>=0A>>- - - - *=0A>>- - - - *=0A>>
=0A>>=0A>>- - - - *=0A>=0A>- - - - *=0A>=0A>- - -
- t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List=0A>- - -
- tp://forums.matronics.com- <http://forums.matronics.com>=0A>- -
- - _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>=0A>- - -
- *=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>- - -- =0A>- - Tom Sargent=0A>=0A>-
- *=0A>=0A>- - t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-L
ist=0A>- - tp://forums.matronics.com=0A>- - _blank">http://www.ma
tronics.com/contribution=0A>=0A>- - *=0A>=0A>=0A> *=0A>=0A>=0A> *=0A
=============
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 70 psi compression |
Even if you buy into the idea that a compression test is required during
the condition inspection, it doesn't mean you have to give it any weight
in your appraisal of the engine's health. :-) I suspect that Bill was
saying that more recent research has shown the traditional compression
test to be a very poor indicator of a cylinder's condition (unless, of
course, it's very very low and you can hear a 'breeze' blowing out the
exhaust or intake...).
I've gotten a 75+ reading on a cylinder that had a broken ring, and a
low-70s reading followed the next year by a high-70s reading on the same
cylinder, when checked 'cold'.
If you haven't done it already, I'd suggest reading everything you can
find by Mike Busch (writes for Sport Aviation, in addition to seminars,
webinars, etc).
Charlie
(If your mechanic insists that he got an 88/80 reading, then in the
immortal words of Monty Python, 'Run away! Run away!' (from that mechanic).
On 6/26/2014 2:26 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Not really. Until Appendix D of Part 43 gets re-written, compression
> tests are mandatory for both certified and experimental aircraft. Item
> (d) (3) of the appendix requires compression test, and AFAIK most all
> experimental operating limitations require condition inspect that
> meets requirements of Appendix D as a minimum. Yes, borescope is good
> addition to checking cylinder health, but FAA does not recognize it as
> a complete substitute.
> IF one gains the experience to get a cylinder to TDC there will be no
> force on the prop. But allowing it to go very many degrees either side
> of TDC generates a dangerous force in the prop. I position prop near
> TDC, dial up about 20psi while adjusting prop for minimum to no force
> at the prop, then bring the pressure on up to 80. I also make sure to
> hold prop such that if it got away from me it would hurt nothing.
> Especially keep rest of body besides hand outside the prop arc.I don't
> even pick up compression tester until I have prop in safe position.
>
> On 6/26/2014 8:27 AM, Bill Boyd wrote:
>> Be careful. Two-man job to do safely... 80 psi into one jug can be
>> deadly if the prop gets away from you and your noggin is in the way.
>>
>> IIRC, the trend in the "literature" is away from compression testing
>> altogether and toward boroscopy as a means of assessing engine health.
>> --kind of like internal like medicine... the old standards of
>> screening are giving way to the $$ passing-of-scopes $$ into various
>> body cavities.
>>
>> -Stormy
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Thomas Sargent > > wrote:
>>
>> Well 88 may well be a mistake, but that's what the A&P said. He
>> seemed a bit baffled. I have my own compression tester now. I
>> will do it myself next time.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Linn Walters
>> > wrote:
>>
>> On 6/25/2014 9:44 PM, vanremog(at)aol.com
>> wrote:
>>> Just a wild question since no one has asked it...How can one
>>> get an 88 psig aircraft bleed down type compression reading
>>> with 80 psig supplied air?
>> You can't if you use the differential gauge properly. I can
>> only surmise that 88 was a typo.
>> Linn
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: William Greenley <wgreenley(at)gmail.com>
>>>
>>> To: rv-list
>>>
>>> Sent: Wed, Jun 25, 2014 4:26 pm
>>> Subject: RE: RV-List: 70 psi compression
>>>
>>> An 88 means something is wrong with the equipment or the
>>> methodology. The max is 80 with the standardized orifice.
>>> *From:*owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>>
>>> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>> ] *On Behalf Of
>>> *Thomas Sargent
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 25, 2014 7:11 PM
>>> *To:* rv-list
>>> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: 70 psi compression
>>> Thanks for all the good information.
>>>
>>> Reading the Lycoming Service instructions, I should note that
>>> cyl#1 showed 88psi. I was doing the test as part of the
>>> annual inspection. Last year they were all in the 72 - 78
>>> range I think. What does an anomalously high reading
>>> indicate? Off hand I would have guessed that the higher the
>>> better, but apparently not. Lyc. says more than 15psi
>>> difference is trouble.
>>>
>>> I think I need to repeat this whole test soon after actually
>>> flying the plane.
>>>
>>> I'm still finishing the annual, I haven't flown it for a
>>> couple weeks.
>>>
>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 70 psi compression |
| From: | vanremog(at)aol.com |
baffled is not the word I was thinking of...
-GV
February 24, 2014 - June 29, 2014
RV-Archive.digest.vol-vt