RV-Archive.digest.vol-vv
March 16, 2015 - January 15, 2016
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
http -Matt Dralle, List Admin.======
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/15/15 |
Really? Mike is usually spot on but I find this to be an unfounded asserti
on. On what evidence does he base this opinion?
If this is true, thousands of aircraft over the last 50 years have been fly
ing in an unairworthy condition.
-GV
Note =93 Mike Busch has voiced his opinion (which I agree with) that
engine cylinders cannot be properly removed/replace without removing the en
gine from the aircraft as this impedes achieving correct cylinder bolt torq
ue.
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Mon, Mar 16, 2015 5:06 pm
Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: RV-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/15/15
I=99ll defer to the guru mechanics out there, but if it was my plane
the engine would get pulled, disassembled and repaired as needed. I would
assume other bolts that had taken up the load of those bolts that you found
loose had deformed =93 and perhaps this is what caused your sheared
bolt.
Note =93 Mike Busch has voiced his opinion (which I agree with) that
engine cylinders cannot be properly removed/replace without removing the en
gine from the aircraft as this impedes achieving correct cylinder bolt torq
ue.
Carl
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matro
nics.com] On Behalf Of d wntzl
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 12:45 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/15/15
Lycoming Cylinder problem
Hello fellow RV'rs, Looking for advice, here's my situation \ problem. (I
have an RV6, w an 0-320 A2B which was installed rebuilt, modified to 160 HP
, during construction about 700 hrs ago). It has been running great, but I
have been seeing a couple of small oil leaks, (which have gotten to be qui
te annoying.) While doing an oil change recently, I discovered one of the t
op cylinder bolts (small one - not the larger thru bolts) had sheared off.
I had not done anything to it whatsoever, nor was there any evidence of loo
seness or an oil leak in that area, the broken part was just sitting there,
I then jiggled the other upper bolts by hand and . . . 2 of them were jus
t finger tight!. Someone (a local A&P) suggested that a good welder could
weld a nut to the broken stud and remove it that way - but that sounds way
to "scary" to me.
Any advice appreciated. Also . . . is the plane grounded until the repa
ir??
Thanks in advance
David Wentzell - N233DW
On Monday, March 16, 2015 3:24 AM, RV-List Digest Server wrote:
*
========================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
========================
Today's complete RV-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the RV-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=htm
l&Chapter 15-03-15&Archive=RV
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt
&Chapter 15-03-15&Archive=RV
======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
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RV-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sun 03/15/15: 0
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Today's Message Index:
----------------------
http -Matt Dralle, List Admin.======
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cylinder stud repair |
There are several ways to remove a broken stud. I would consult with a
respected engine shop, like Barrett Performance, Lycon, Mattictuck, or
case overhauler such as Divco as to how they recommend removing the
broken stud, and consider also removing the other studs for that
cylinder, depending on very close examination with ten power magnifying
lens and/or some form of non-destructive testing to ensure nothing is
wrong with those studs.
As to reassemble on the airframe, Mike may be right about big
Continentals in Beech or Cessna airframes, particularly the cradle type
mount, but he is full of horse feathers on a Lycoming on a Dynafocal
mount.You just need the right cylinder wrenches and a good torque wrench
with long enough handle for the torque needed. The most important item
is to not move the crankshaft/prop when there is no torque on the
through bolts. Position the prop before removing torque to where it is
needed to remove that cylinder. If more needs to come apart, use torque
plate or stack of washers and nuts to retorque the case before moving to
another cylinder. Keeps the bearings secured in position.
On 3/16/2015 5:05 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> Ill defer to the guru mechanics out there, but if it was my plane the
> engine would get pulled, disassembled and repaired as needed. I would
> assume other bolts that had taken up the load of those bolts that you
> found loose had deformed and perhaps this is what caused your
> sheared bolt.
>
> Note Mike Busch has voiced his opinion (which I agree with) that
> engine cylinders cannot be properly removed/replace without removing
> the engine from the aircraft as this impedes achieving correct
> cylinder bolt torque.
>
> Carl
>
> *From:*owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *d wntzl
> *Sent:* Monday, March 16, 2015 12:45 PM
> *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV-List: Re: RV-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/15/15
>
> Lycoming Cylinder problem
>
> Hello fellow RV'rs, Looking for advice, here's my situation \
> problem. (I have an RV6, w an 0-320 A2B which was installed rebuilt,
> modified to 160 HP, during construction about 700 hrs ago). It has
> been running great, but I have been seeing a couple of small oil
> leaks, (which have gotten to be quite annoying.) While doing an oil
> change recently, I discovered one of the top cylinder bolts (small one
> - not the larger thru bolts) had sheared off. I had not done anything
> to it whatsoever, nor was there any evidence of looseness or an oil
> leak in that area, the broken part was just sitting there, I then
> jiggled the other upper bolts by hand and . . . 2 of them were just
> finger tight!. Someone (a local A&P) suggested that a good welder
> could weld a nut to the broken stud and remove it that way - but that
> sounds way to "scary" to me.
>
> Any advice appreciated. Also . . . is the plane grounded until the
> repair??
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> David Wentzell - N233DW
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | d wntzl <dwntzl(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/17/15 |
Hello fellow RV'rs, =C2-Looking for advice, here's my situation \ problem
. (I have an RV6, w an 0-320 A2B which was installed rebuilt, modified to 1
60 HP, during construction about 700 hrs ago). It has been running great, b
ut I have been seeing =C2-a couple of small oil leaks, (which have gotten
to be quite annoying.) While doing an oil change recently, I discovered on
e of the top cylinder bolts (small one - not the larger thru bolts) had she
ared off. I had not done anything to it whatsoever, nor was there any evide
nce of looseness or an oil leak in that area, the broken part was just sitt
ing there, I then jiggled the other upper bolts by hand and =C2-. . . 2 o
f them were just finger tight!. =C2-Someone (a local A&P) suggested that
a good welder could weld a nut to the broken stud and remove it that way -
but that sounds way to "scary" to me.=C2-=C2- =C2- Any advice appreci
ated. Also . . . is the plane grounded until the repair??David Wentzell N23
3DWdwntzl(at)yahoo.com
On Wednesday, March 18, 2015 3:24 AM, RV-List Digest Server wrote:
*
========================
=C2- Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
========================
Today's complete RV-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below.=C2- The .html file includes the Digest format
ted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation.=C2- The .txt file includes the plain ASCII versio
n
of the RV-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
=C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&
View=html&Chapter 15-03-17&Archive=RV
Text Version:
=C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&
View=txt&Chapter 15-03-17&Archive=RV
========================
=======================
=C2- EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
========================
=======================
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ----------------------------------------
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=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2
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Messages Posted Tue 03/17/15: 0
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ----------------------------------------
------------------
Today's Message Index:
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S -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New (Free) Aviation App |
| From: | "gbrasch" <gmbrasch(at)gmail.com> |
I still get a lot of questions on how to download the Airport Courtesy Cars app
on an iPad. So here are some simple instructions on how to do so. The app is
approaching 1400 car listings with over 6,400 pilots that have downloaded the
app. Glenn
Go to the app store on your iPad,
Click the search box and search for Airport Courtesy Cars,
The search will not show any results, however when the search is complete a bar
of menus will appear along the top of the page,
The very first one on the left says "Ipad only",
Click it to show a drop down menu,
Choose "iPhone only" and Airport Courtesy Cars" will be displayed, and you can
download the app.
--------
Glenn Brasch
RV-9A Flying
1952 Piper Tri-Pacer
Medevac Helicopter Pilot (Ret)
Tucson, Arizona
Owner, www.RVairspace.com and "Airport Courtesy Cars" Smart Phone App
www.RVairspace.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439544#439544
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 03/16/15 |
| From: | Max <maxfly55(at)gmail.com> |
Dave,
I would not even run your engine with broken cylinder hold down bolts,
never mind fly in it.
As an A&P since 1976, That cylinder has to come off and all of the nuts/
studs/ bolts that were loose, I would replace. I'd also inspect all of the
rest with a dye penetrate black light inspection and magnifying glass. ANY
SUSPECT STUDS/ BOLTS that look even a little wonky (very technical term)
Replace them. If your not comfortable doing the work, Pull the engine and
have an engine shop do the work.
Check ALL of the cylinder hold down bolts on all of the cylinders. Anything
loose? Fix them.
The bolts are a very intricate part of the engine. They go through hell,
trying to hold the engine together as it's trying to ripe itself apart.
Treat them with respect and while your at it, take a real good look at that
cylinder for cracks around the mounting flange. It now has been subjected
to allot more vibration/ movement then it was designed for. The flange may
not be straight and the bolt holes may have elongated. Check for cracks
here as well.
As for not pulling the engine to do the work, I've pulled many of cylinders
and it's an approved method of repair. That being said, I've also pulled 2
engines to do the work just because we pulled more then 2 cylinders and it
was way easier to do it that way. Your results may vary.
Don't fly it till it's fixed.
--
*Thomas =8BPhy, A&P=8B*
*President/ Technical Counselor*
*EAA Chapter 1345*
*Bend OR*
*RV-7 Builder (repeat offender)=8B*
*541-306-1500*
> I'll defer to the guru mechanics out there, but if it was my plane the
> engine would get pulled, disassembled and repaired as needed. I would
> assume other bolts that had taken up the load of those bolts that you fou
nd
> loose had deformed - and perhaps this is what caused your sheared bolt.
>
>
> Note - Mike Busch has voiced his opinion (which I agree with) that engine
> cylinders cannot be properly removed/replace without removing the engine
> from the aircraft as this impedes achieving correct cylinder bolt torque.
>
>
> Carl
>
>
> Lycoming Cylinder problem
>
>
> Hello fellow RV'rs, Looking for advice, here's my situation \ problem. (
I
> have an RV6, w an 0-320 A2B which was installed rebuilt, modified to 160
> HP,
> during construction about 700 hrs ago). It has been running great, but I
> have been seeing a couple of small oil leaks, (which have gotten to be
> quite annoying.) While doing an oil change recently, I discovered one of
> the
> top cylinder bolts (small one - not the larger thru bolts) had sheared of
f.
> I had not done anything to it whatsoever, nor was there any evidence of
> looseness or an oil leak in that area, the broken part was just sitting
> there, I then jiggled the other upper bolts by hand and . . . 2 of them
> were just finger tight!. Someone (a local A&P) suggested that a good
> welder
> could weld a nut to the broken stud and remove it that way - but that
> sounds
> way to "scary" to me.
>
> Any advice appreciated. Also . . . is the plane grounded until the
> repair??
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> David Wentzell - N233DW
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/15/15 |
| From: | "n1345p" <n1345p(at)suddenlink.net> |
I had a broken stud on an older O320. We removed it by welding a washer to what
was left of the stud, then welding a nut to the washer.
O made bent the washer like a Belleville or a funnel to get it on to the stud.
It didn't require a good weld, as the broken stud was not in tension and the
thermal cycle from welding it caused it to loosen in the aluminum alloy case.
Soon after the repair, we went ahead and overhauled the engine. Divco put in all
new studs.
mitch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439598#439598
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New (Free) Aviation App |
| From: | "gbrasch" <gmbrasch(at)gmail.com> |
I can now insert photos of your courtesy cars into the app listings. Feel free
to email me your photos, and please be sure to indicate in the title of the email
the airport ID and/or city location, and if there is more than one FBO, which
one the car is located at. The app has broken 1400 locations nationwide.
Thanks, Glenn Email to airportcars101(at)gmail.com
--------
Glenn Brasch
RV-9A Flying
1952 Piper Tri-Pacer
Medevac Helicopter Pilot (Ret)
Tucson, Arizona
Owner, www.RVairspace.com and "Airport Courtesy Cars" Smart Phone App. Over 1400 cars nationwide.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439924#439924
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Single fuse for two fuel guages only |
I have been doing some rearranging of the wiring and circuit protection in my 6A.
I found my two fuel guages ( Vans IE-VFL-15) wired directly to the starter power
input on the key switch (I must have been lazy that day). The documentation
calls for 18AWG wiring for this circuit - but does not specify circuit protection
sizing. I am thinking a 3 amp fuse should allow sufficient current and provide
protection for the wiring.
Thoughts please!
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren Brecheisen" <n146wb(at)cfu.net> |
| Subject: | Single fuse for two fuel guages only |
Ralph,
I used a 2 amp CB for the fuel gauges and I have had no problems.
Warren
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2015 1:30 PM
Subject: RV-List: Single fuse for two fuel guages only
I have been doing some rearranging of the wiring and circuit protection in my 6A.
I found my two fuel guages ( Vans IE-VFL-15) wired directly to the starter power
input on the key switch (I must have been lazy that day). The documentation
calls for 18AWG wiring for this circuit - but does not specify circuit protection
sizing. I am thinking a 3 amp fuse should allow sufficient current and provide
protection for the wiring.
Thoughts please!
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Single fuse for two fuel guages only |
Thanks Warren!
-----Original Message-----
>From: Warren Brecheisen <n146wb(at)cfu.net>
>Sent: Apr 1, 2015 9:45 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Single fuse for two fuel guages only
>
>
>Ralph,
>
>I used a 2 amp CB for the fuel gauges and I have had no problems.
>
>Warren
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
>Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2015 1:30 PM
>To: rv-list; aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Single fuse for two fuel guages only
>
>
>I have been doing some rearranging of the wiring and circuit protection in my
6A.
>
>I found my two fuel guages ( Vans IE-VFL-15) wired directly to the starter power
input on the key switch (I must have been lazy that day). The documentation
calls for 18AWG wiring for this circuit - but does not specify circuit protection
sizing. I am thinking a 3 amp fuse should allow sufficient current and
provide protection for the wiring.
>
>Thoughts please!
>
>Ralph Capen
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net> |
Old-timers may remember Eustace Bohay, who was one of the early adopters of
sharing RV building expertise with others online. He was a big poster on the
Matronics list back in the day, and was quite active in the Western Canada
wing of Vans Air Force.
He died on this date 9 years ago, and as I recall, his passing didn't get
the notice it probably should have because Scott Crossfield died on the same
day.
But I got this email today based on a post I'd written some years ago and
because I never had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Bohay, I can't supply the
answers he's seeking. But I'm hoping someone else can.
-------------------
Quote:
Sir;
I was doing a bit of internet research on an old acquaintance named Eustace
Bohay, and came across a post of yours from 2006 (!) referring to the death
of someone with that name.
The Eustace Bohay I remember used to fly in and out of Hay River, N.W.T. (in
northern Canada) in a P-51. He was a friend of my employer at the time, and
what I remember most about him was that Mustang, and the sound of that
Merlin on takeoff. Our shop was right off the end of the runway, and he'd
make sure he came over the roof at about 30', and full bore. I'd be all the
rest of the day getting the grin off my face.
I wonder if it could be the same guy - I was just a kid then (in the late
'50s and early '60s) and admit I don't recall a lot more about him. It's not
a very common name however, and adding the element of aviation makes it seem
even more possible that it's the same guy. I'm not even sure what his
business was up there, but it would have most likely been related to either
the construction boom of that era, or the (then) thriving commercial fishery
on Great Slave Lake.
If you could shed any light on him, or point me toward any relevant
information, I'd be most grateful.
Thank You,
Karl Krieger
Whitecourt, Alberta
------------
If you can help,drop me an emailand I'll forward it.
Bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Cantrell" <kcflyrv(at)comcast.net> |
I used to thoroughly enjoy Eustace Bohay's posts when I was building and the
early years of flying my RV6. As I remember, he was an elegant wordsmith and
I would so love to read some of his posts again. He had a way of describing
the joys of flight like few can.
I greatly miss his participation on this forum. The link below is a video I
made with my son that reminds me of the many of Mr. Bohay's posts describing
similar experiences.
http://youtu.be/D2khEtxf8ak
Best to all of you,
Ken Cantrell
RV-6, 1975 hours & on my way to the airport.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2015 8:47 AM
Subject: RV-List: Eust
Old-timers may remember Eustace Bohay, who was one of the early adopters of
sharing RV building expertise with others online. He was a big poster on the
Matronics list back in the day, and was quite active in the Western Canada
wing of Vans Air Force.
He died on this date 9 years ago, and as I recall, his passing didn't get
the notice it probably should have because Scott Crossfield died on the same
day.
But I got this email today based on a post I'd written some years ago and
because I never had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Bohay, I can't supply the
answers he's seeking. But I'm hoping someone else can.
-------------------
Quote:
Sir;
I was doing a bit of internet research on an old acquaintance named Eustace
Bohay, and came across a post of yours from 2006 (!) referring to the death
of someone with that name.
The Eustace Bohay I remember used to fly in and out of Hay River, N.W.T. (in
northern Canada) in a P-51. He was a friend of my employer at the time, and
what I remember most about him was that Mustang, and the sound of that
Merlin on takeoff. Our shop was right off the end of the runway, and he'd
make sure he came over the roof at about 30', and full bore. I'd be all the
rest of the day getting the grin off my face.
I wonder if it could be the same guy - I was just a kid then (in the late
'50s and early '60s) and admit I don't recall a lot more about him. It's not
a very common name however, and adding the element of aviation makes it seem
even more possible that it's the same guy. I'm not even sure what his
business was up there, but it would have most likely been related to either
the construction boom of that era, or the (then) thriving commercial fishery
on Great Slave Lake.
If you could shed any light on him, or point me toward any relevant
information, I'd be most grateful.
Thank You,
Karl Krieger
Whitecourt, Alberta
------------
If you can help,drop me an emailand I'll forward it.
Bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Todd <motodd(at)frontier.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Eustace Bowhay |
Eustace Bowhay (note spelling) would come down to the Arlington fly-in
years ago and his RV-6 on amphib floats always drew a crowd. Friendly,
soft-spoken, obviously knowledgeable, being in his company was always a
pleasure.
I believe he died April 18, 2006. Here's a nice piece/eulogy about him
from Van's Air Force:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=7209
Mark
> From: "Bob Collins"<bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
> Subject: RV-List: Eust
>
>
> Old-timers may remember Eustace Bohay, who was one of the early adopters of
> sharing RV building expertise with others online. He was a big poster on the
> Matronics list back in the day, and was quite active in the Western Canada
> wing of Vans Air Force.
>
> He died on this date 9 years ago, and as I recall, his passing didn't get
> the notice it probably should have because Scott Crossfield died on the same
> day.
>
> But I got this email today based on a post I'd written some years ago and
> because I never had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Bohay, I can't supply the
> answers he's seeking. But I'm hoping someone else can.
>
> -------------------
>
> Quote:
> Sir;
>
> I was doing a bit of internet research on an old acquaintance named Eustace
> Bohay, and came across a post of yours from 2006 (!) referring to the death
> of someone with that name.
>
> The Eustace Bohay I remember used to fly in and out of Hay River, N.W.T. (in
> northern Canada) in a P-51. He was a friend of my employer at the time, and
> what I remember most about him was that Mustang, and the sound of that
> Merlin on takeoff. Our shop was right off the end of the runway, and he'd
> make sure he came over the roof at about 30', and full bore. I'd be all the
> rest of the day getting the grin off my face.
>
> I wonder if it could be the same guy - I was just a kid then (in the late
> '50s and early '60s) and admit I don't recall a lot more about him. It's not
> a very common name however, and adding the element of aviation makes it seem
> even more possible that it's the same guy. I'm not even sure what his
> business was up there, but it would have most likely been related to either
> the construction boom of that era, or the (then) thriving commercial fishery
> on Great Slave Lake.
>
> If you could shed any light on him, or point me toward any relevant
> information, I'd be most grateful.
>
> Thank You,
> Karl Krieger
> Whitecourt, Alberta
On 04/21/2015 12:02 AM, RV-List Digest Server wrote:
> From: "Bob Collins"<bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
> Subject: RV-List: Eust
>
>
> Old-timers may remember Eustace Bohay, who was one of the early adopters of
> sharing RV building expertise with others online. He was a big poster on the
> Matronics list back in the day, and was quite active in the Western Canada
> wing of Vans Air Force.
>
> He died on this date 9 years ago, and as I recall, his passing didn't get
> the notice it probably should have because Scott Crossfield died on the same
> day.
>
> But I got this email today based on a post I'd written some years ago and
> because I never had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Bohay, I can't supply the
> answers he's seeking. But I'm hoping someone else can.
>
> -------------------
>
> Quote:
> Sir;
>
> I was doing a bit of internet research on an old acquaintance named Eustace
> Bohay, and came across a post of yours from 2006 (!) referring to the death
> of someone with that name.
>
> The Eustace Bohay I remember used to fly in and out of Hay River, N.W.T. (in
> northern Canada) in a P-51. He was a friend of my employer at the time, and
> what I remember most about him was that Mustang, and the sound of that
> Merlin on takeoff. Our shop was right off the end of the runway, and he'd
> make sure he came over the roof at about 30', and full bore. I'd be all the
> rest of the day getting the grin off my face.
>
> I wonder if it could be the same guy - I was just a kid then (in the late
> '50s and early '60s) and admit I don't recall a lot more about him. It's not
> a very common name however, and adding the element of aviation makes it seem
> even more possible that it's the same guy. I'm not even sure what his
> business was up there, but it would have most likely been related to either
> the construction boom of that era, or the (then) thriving commercial fishery
> on Great Slave Lake.
>
> If you could shed any light on him, or point me toward any relevant
> information, I'd be most grateful.
>
> Thank You,
> Karl Krieger
> Whitecourt, Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Eberhart <steve(at)newtech.com> |
| Subject: | EAA 21 Club First Saturday Fly-Ins at KEHR, Henderson, KY |
We will be preparing Hamburgers, Brats and NATHANS FAMOUS Hot Dogs for
all that fly in.
Just as New Yorks 21 Club has become known as the HAPPENING PLACE to be
and be seen, EAA 21 Club is the place to be on the first Saturday of
each month.
When: May 2, June 6, July 4, Aug 1, Sept 5, Oct 3, 2015
10:00 AM till 2:00 PM Central time.
Where: Henderson Kentucky City-County Airport (KEHR)
If KEHR is VFR then we will be cooking the best Gourmet Burgers,
Brats and Dogs this side of Sporty's.
EAA Chapter 21 will be flying Young Eagles at the May 2nd Fly-In.
Young Eagles must be between 8 and 17 years of age
and have a parent or guardian with them.
http://www.eaa21.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stan and Eilene VanGrunsven" <stan(at)vangrunsven.us> |
| Subject: | Official RV-List Usage Guidelines |
We need to have our email address changed to:
sandevan(at)outlook.com
Thank you,
Stan & Eilene VanGrunsven
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <cheathco(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Best glide speed RV6A |
Interesting article in Flying mag (may) re dead stick landings. I experime
nted with determining that quite bit when I first got my 6A, based at LZU
at the time. That was in late 04/early 05. I never felt I could absolutly
put a number on it, but settled on 75/80 mph, pretty much speed on final.
This article got me thinking about it again, but due to very recent rt shou
lder surg, I will no be flying for a while. ( think I could manage everythi
ng exept flaps but getting in and especially back out may take a while). An
yway, would like to hear from 6A drivers what they would use for dead stick
air speed? Charlie H
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Best glide speed RV6A |
Charlie, I have a 6A, and I agree with your ball park figure; however I
would caution there are many variables: prop (cs or fixed), power status
(stopped prop or windmill), airplane weight, Idle rpm of your engine,
etc. There are probably more.
In my case I have an average weight 180hp with c/s prop and low idle
speed. I use 80 to 90 knots for glide and across the fence 75K. That
leaves a lot of speed to kill in the flare but I have a low idle speed
and lots of drag if windmilling. This is what I practice with. It
gives a rather steep glide and I am sure it would be quite different
with a stopped prop or partial power, but I feel these would make for a
better glide which I could deal with. I always practice with the prop
in max RPM so I have max drag.
One can practice for the zero thrust, min drag glide if you fiddle with
the throttle to establish zero thrust, but I consider this to be too
tough for me and of minimal value in an emergency which will almost
certainly be different than you practiced any way! My opinion is the
same about practicing with coarse pitch glides. I don=92t think you can
count on having enough oil pressure to go coarse pitch in many engine
failure scenarios. So I just practice the worst case, with low pitch
low rpm, and glide at 80-90, until the field is made then flare, add
drag and land. I figure if my emergency has better glide angle than I
have practiced, I can put the flaps down sooner or side slip. Coming up
short on final is, on the other hand usually not a good option.
I certainly don=92t claim this is the best or the only way to practice,
it=92 s just the way I do it, as you asked, based on a lot of practice
over the past 18 years and 3100 hours in the 6A. You would have thought
i would have worn it out by now but it is still going strong..
I hope your shoulder heals soon.
Denis Walsh
denis.walsh(at)comcast.net
> On 20May, 2015, at 11:07, wrote:
>
> Interesting article in Flying mag (may) re dead stick landings. I
experimented with determining that quite bit when I first got my 6A,
based at LZU at the time. That was in late 04/early 05. I never felt I
could absolutly put a number on it, but settled on 75/80 mph, pretty
much speed on final. This article got me thinking about it again, but
due to very recent rt shoulder surg, I will no be flying for a while. (
think I could manage everything exept flaps but getting in and
especially back out may take a while). Anyway, would like to hear from
6A drivers what they would use for dead stick air speed? Charlie H
>
>
> <http://www.avast.com/>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com/>
>
>
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Best glide speed RV6A |
| From: | Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au> |
When discussing best glide I am never sure if we are talking about best glid
e endurance or best glide range. Which do we use?
I have never tested these on my RV-6 but intend to do so now the engine has a
couple of hundred hours. If someone can point me to a recommended procedure
this would be helpful too.
Doug Gray
Sent from my iPad
> On 21 May 2015, at 9:18 am, Denis Walsh wrote:
>
> Charlie, I have a 6A, and I agree with your ball park figure; however I w
ould caution there are many variables: prop (cs or fixed), power status (sto
pped prop or windmill), airplane weight, Idle rpm of your engine, etc. Ther
e are probably more.
>
> In my case I have an average weight 180hp with c/s prop and low idle speed
. I use 80 to 90 knots for glide and across the fence 75K. That leaves a l
ot of speed to kill in the flare but I have a low idle speed and lots of dra
g if windmilling. This is what I practice with. It gives a rather steep gl
ide and I am sure it would be quite different with a stopped prop or partia
l power, but I feel these would make for a better glide which I could deal w
ith. I always practice with the prop in max RPM so I have max drag.
>
> One can practice for the zero thrust, min drag glide if you fiddle with t
he throttle to establish zero thrust, but I consider this to be too tough fo
r me and of minimal value in an emergency which will almost certainly be dif
ferent than you practiced any way! My opinion is the same about practicing w
ith coarse pitch glides. I don=99t think you can count on having enou
gh oil pressure to go coarse pitch in many engine failure scenarios. So I j
ust practice the worst case, with low pitch low rpm, and glide at 80-90, unt
il the field is made then flare, add drag and land. I figure if my emergenc
y has better glide angle than I have practiced, I can put the flaps down soo
ner or side slip. Coming up short on final is, on the other hand usually no
t a good option.
>
> I certainly don=99t claim this is the best or the only way to practi
ce, it=99 s just the way I do it, as you asked, based on a lot of prac
tice over the past 18 years and 3100 hours in the 6A. You would have though
t i would have worn it out by now but it is still going strong..
>
> I hope your shoulder heals soon.
>
>
> Denis Walsh
> denis.walsh(at)comcast.net
>
>
>
>> On 20May, 2015, at 11:07, wrote:
>>
>> Interesting article in Flying mag (may) re dead stick landings. I experi
mented with determining that quite bit when I first got my 6A, based at LZU
at the time. That was in late 04/early 05. I never felt I could absolutly p
ut a number on it, but settled on 75/80 mph, pretty much speed on final. Th
is article got me thinking about it again, but due to very recent rt shoulde
r surg, I will no be flying for a while. ( think I could manage everything e
xept flaps but getting in and especially back out may take a while). Anyway,
would like to hear from 6A drivers what they would use for dead stick air s
peed? Charlie H
>>
>>
>>
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> class="">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
>> class="">http://forums.matronics.com
>> class="">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Best glide speed RV6A |
I think best glide endurance and best glide range might be the same ....
at least it is to me.
What I do is start 10 miles out from my airport at 5000 feet .... in
still air if I can find it. Pick an airspeed (I like 70 for the first
try) and try to hold the airspeed steady.
I want to be over the airport at 1000 feet ..... pattern altitude for me
..... but record the altitude (or distance from the airport if short)
you get and you can figure the glide ratio. If you repeat the procedure
for 65, 75, etc. you'll home in on the best glide ratio for your
particular plane. It's something to do while you're flying off those 20
or 40 hours in phase 1.
Linn
On 5/21/2015 9:54 PM, Doug Gray wrote:
> When discussing best glide I am never sure if we are talking about
> best glide endurance or best glide range. Which do we use?
> I have never tested these on my RV-6 but intend to do so now the
> engine has a couple of hundred hours. If someone can point me to a
> recommended procedure this would be helpful too.
> Doug Gray
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 21 May 2015, at 9:18 am, Denis Walsh > wrote:
>
>> Charlie, I have a 6A, and I agree with your ball park figure;
>> however I would caution there are many variables: prop (cs or fixed),
>> power status (stopped prop or windmill), airplane weight, Idle rpm of
>> your engine, etc. There are probably more.
>>
>> In my case I have an average weight 180hp with c/s prop and low idle
>> speed. I use 80 to 90 knots for glide and across the fence 75K.
>> That leaves a lot of speed to kill in the flare but I have a low
>> idle speed and lots of drag if windmilling. This is what I practice
>> with. It gives a rather steep glide and I am sure it would be quite
>> different with a stopped prop or partial power, but I feel these
>> would make for a better glide which I could deal with. I always
>> practice with the prop in max RPM so I have max drag.
>>
>> One can practice for the zero thrust, min drag glide if you fiddle
>> with the throttle to establish zero thrust, but I consider this to be
>> too tough for me and of minimal value in an emergency which will
>> almost certainly be different than you practiced any way! My opinion
>> is the same about practicing with coarse pitch glides. I dont think
>> you can count on having enough oil pressure to go coarse pitch in
>> many engine failure scenarios. So I just practice the worst case,
>> with low pitch low rpm, and glide at 80-90, until the field is made
>> then flare, add drag and land. I figure if my emergency has better
>> glide angle than I have practiced, I can put the flaps down sooner or
>> side slip. Coming up short on final is, on the other hand usually
>> not a good option.
>>
>> I certainly dont claim this is the best or the only way to practice,
>> it s just the way I do it, as you asked, based on a lot of practice
>> over the past 18 years and 3100 hours in the 6A. You would have
>> thought i would have worn it out by now but it is still going strong..
>>
>> I hope your shoulder heals soon.
>>
>>
>> Denis Walsh
>> denis.walsh(at)comcast.net
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 20May, 2015, at 11:07, >> > >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> Interesting article in Flying mag (may) re dead stick landings. I
>>> experimented with determining that quite bit when I first got my
>>> 6A, based at LZU at the time. That was in late 04/early 05. I never
>>> felt I could absolutly put a number on it, but settled on 75/80 mph,
>>> pretty much speed on final. This article got me thinking about it
>>> again, but due to very recent rt shoulder surg, I will no be flying
>>> for a while. ( think I could manage everything exept flaps but
>>> getting in and especially back out may take a while). Anyway, would
>>> like to hear from 6A drivers what they would use for dead stick air
>>> speed? Charlie H
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Avast logo <http://www.avast.com/>
>>>
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com/>
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> class="">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
>>> class="">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> class="">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> D============================================
>> st"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
>> D============================================
>> //forums.matronics.com
>> D============================================
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D============================================
>>
>> *
> *
>
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Best glide speed RV6A |
| From: | Skylor Piper <skylor4(at)yahoo.com> |
"Best glide" usually refers to best glide angle, i.e. the speed at which the
aircraft will cover the most distance for a given amount of altitude loss i
n still air. In engine out situations, this is usually what we're intereste
d in because we want to go the most distance possible with the amount of alt
itude that we have. I believe best glide angle typically coincides with the
speed at which L/D is the greatest in still air.
Best endurance is the speed at which the rate of descent is minimum. This i
s useful for getting the most time possible for troubleshooting, but not nec
essarily traveling the greatest distance. Best endurance can occur at a sig
nificantly lower airspeed than best angle, so while the rate of descent may b
e minimized, less forward progress is made per unit time resulting in a stee
per glide angle.
Skylor
Sent from my iPhone.
> On May 21, 2015, at 6:54 PM, Doug Gray wrote:
>
> When discussing best glide I am never sure if we are talking about best gl
ide endurance or best glide range. Which do we use?
> I have never tested these on my RV-6 but intend to do so now the engine ha
s a couple of hundred hours. If someone can point me to a recommended proced
ure this would be helpful too.
> Doug Gray
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On 21 May 2015, at 9:18 am, Denis Walsh wrote:
>>
>> Charlie, I have a 6A, and I agree with your ball park figure; however I w
ould caution there are many variables: prop (cs or fixed), power status (sto
pped prop or windmill), airplane weight, Idle rpm of your engine, etc. Ther
e are probably more.
>>
>> In my case I have an average weight 180hp with c/s prop and low idle spee
d. I use 80 to 90 knots for glide and across the fence 75K. That leaves a l
ot of speed to kill in the flare but I have a low idle speed and lots of dra
g if windmilling. This is what I practice with. It gives a rather steep gl
ide and I am sure it would be quite different with a stopped prop or partia
l power, but I feel these would make for a better glide which I could deal w
ith. I always practice with the prop in max RPM so I have max drag.
>>
>> One can practice for the zero thrust, min drag glide if you fiddle with t
he throttle to establish zero thrust, but I consider this to be too tough fo
r me and of minimal value in an emergency which will almost certainly be dif
ferent than you practiced any way! My opinion is the same about practicing w
ith coarse pitch glides. I don=99t think you can count on having enou
gh oil pressure to go coarse pitch in many engine failure scenarios. So I j
ust practice the worst case, with low pitch low rpm, and glide at 80-90, unt
il the field is made then flare, add drag and land. I figure if my emergenc
y has better glide angle than I have practiced, I can put the flaps down soo
ner or side slip. Coming up short on final is, on the other hand usually no
t a good option.
>>
>> I certainly don=99t claim this is the best or the only way to pract
ice, it=99 s just the way I do it, as you asked, based on a lot of pra
ctice over the past 18 years and 3100 hours in the 6A. You would have thoug
ht i would have worn it out by now but it is still going strong..
>>
>> I hope your shoulder heals soon.
>>
>>
>> Denis Walsh
>> denis.walsh(at)comcast.net
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 20May, 2015, at 11:07, wrote:
>>>
>>> Interesting article in Flying mag (may) re dead stick landings. I exper
imented with determining that quite bit when I first got my 6A, based at LZ
U at the time. That was in late 04/early 05. I never felt I could absolutly
put a number on it, but settled on 75/80 mph, pretty much speed on final. T
his article got me thinking about it again, but due to very recent rt should
er surg, I will no be flying for a while. ( think I could manage everything e
xept flaps but getting in and especially back out may take a while). Anyway,
would like to hear from 6A drivers what they would use for dead stick air s
peed? Charlie H
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> www.avast.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> class="">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
>>> class="">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> class="">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> st"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> //forums.matronics.com
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Best glide speed RV6A |
| From: | Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au> |
Skylor,
Yes that is as I recall, I think the best glide angle speed corresponds to t
he tangent intercept drawn from the origin on the ROD plot. I will need to c
heck my books to confirm.
I need to figure out the best way to test these. Also I don't think I could h
ave flown my aircraft anywhere near smoothly enough during phase 1 to have c
ollected useful data.
Thanks,
Doug
Sent from my iPhone
> On 22 May 2015, at 1:31 pm, Skylor Piper wrote:
>
> "Best glide" usually refers to best glide angle, i.e. the speed at which t
he aircraft will cover the most distance for a given amount of altitude loss
in still air. In engine out situations, this is usually what we're interes
ted in because we want to go the most distance possible with the amount of a
ltitude that we have. I believe best glide angle typically coincides with t
he speed at which L/D is the greatest in still air.
>
> Best endurance is the speed at which the rate of descent is minimum. This
is useful for getting the most time possible for troubleshooting, but not n
ecessarily traveling the greatest distance. Best endurance can occur at a s
ignificantly lower airspeed than best angle, so while the rate of descent ma
y be minimized, less forward progress is made per unit time resulting in a s
teeper glide angle.
>
> Skylor
>
> Sent from my iPhone.
>
>> On May 21, 2015, at 6:54 PM, Doug Gray wrote:
>>
>> When discussing best glide I am never sure if we are talking about best g
lide endurance or best glide range. Which do we use?
>> I have never tested these on my RV-6 but intend to do so now the engine h
as a couple of hundred hours. If someone can point me to a recommended proce
dure this would be helpful too.
>> Doug Gray
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On 21 May 2015, at 9:18 am, Denis Walsh wrote:
>>>
>>> Charlie, I have a 6A, and I agree with your ball park figure; however I
would caution there are many variables: prop (cs or fixed), power status (s
topped prop or windmill), airplane weight, Idle rpm of your engine, etc. Th
ere are probably more.
>>>
>>> In my case I have an average weight 180hp with c/s prop and low idle spe
ed. I use 80 to 90 knots for glide and across the fence 75K. That leaves a
lot of speed to kill in the flare but I have a low idle speed and lots of d
rag if windmilling. This is what I practice with. It gives a rather steep g
lide and I am sure it would be quite different with a stopped prop or parti
al power, but I feel these would make for a better glide which I could deal w
ith. I always practice with the prop in max RPM so I have max drag.
>>>
>>> One can practice for the zero thrust, min drag glide if you fiddle with
the throttle to establish zero thrust, but I consider this to be too tough f
or me and of minimal value in an emergency which will almost certainly be di
fferent than you practiced any way! My opinion is the same about practicing
with coarse pitch glides. I don=99t think you can count on having en
ough oil pressure to go coarse pitch in many engine failure scenarios. So I
just practice the worst case, with low pitch low rpm, and glide at 80-90, u
ntil the field is made then flare, add drag and land. I figure if my emerge
ncy has better glide angle than I have practiced, I can put the flaps down s
ooner or side slip. Coming up short on final is, on the other hand usually n
ot a good option.
>>>
>>> I certainly don=99t claim this is the best or the only way to prac
tice, it=99 s just the way I do it, as you asked, based on a lot of pr
actice over the past 18 years and 3100 hours in the 6A. You would have thou
ght i would have worn it out by now but it is still going strong..
>>>
>>> I hope your shoulder heals soon.
>>>
>>>
>>> Denis Walsh
>>> denis.walsh(at)comcast.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 20May, 2015, at 11:07, wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Interesting article in Flying mag (may) re dead stick landings. I expe
rimented with determining that quite bit when I first got my 6A, based at L
ZU at the time. That was in late 04/early 05. I never felt I could absolutl
y put a number on it, but settled on 75/80 mph, pretty much speed on final.
This article got me thinking about it again, but due to very recent rt shou
lder surg, I will no be flying for a while. ( think I could manage everythin
g exept flaps but getting in and especially back out may take a while). Anyw
ay, would like to hear from 6A drivers what they would use for dead stick ai
r speed? Charlie H
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>> www.avast.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> class="">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
>>>> class="">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>> class="">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> st"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> //forums.matronics.com
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
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>>>
>>
>>
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> st"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> //forums.matronics.com
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>
>
>
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Gmail <daverv6a(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Best glide speed RV6A |
Hi Charlie,
Look up CAFE foundation, they did a full review of the RV6 6A back in 1993.
Regards
Dave Burnham
> On May 22, 2015, at 9:15 AM, Doug Gray wrote:
>
> Skylor,
> Yes that is as I recall, I think the best glide angle speed corresponds to
the tangent intercept drawn from the origin on the ROD plot. I will need to
check my books to confirm.
> I need to figure out the best way to test these. Also I don't think I coul
d have flown my aircraft anywhere near smoothly enough during phase 1 to hav
e collected useful data.
> Thanks,
> Doug
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 22 May 2015, at 1:31 pm, Skylor Piper wrote:
>>
>> "Best glide" usually refers to best glide angle, i.e. the speed at which t
he aircraft will cover the most distance for a given amount of altitude loss
in still air. In engine out situations, this is usually what we're interes
ted in because we want to go the most distance possible with the amount of a
ltitude that we have. I believe best glide angle typically coincides with t
he speed at which L/D is the greatest in still air.
>>
>> Best endurance is the speed at which the rate of descent is minimum. Thi
s is useful for getting the most time possible for troubleshooting, but not n
ecessarily traveling the greatest distance. Best endurance can occur at a s
ignificantly lower airspeed than best angle, so while the rate of descent ma
y be minimized, less forward progress is made per unit time resulting in a s
teeper glide angle.
>>
>> Skylor
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone.
>>
>>> On May 21, 2015, at 6:54 PM, Doug Gray wrote:
>>>
>>> When discussing best glide I am never sure if we are talking about best g
lide endurance or best glide range. Which do we use?
>>> I have never tested these on my RV-6 but intend to do so now the engine h
as a couple of hundred hours. If someone can point me to a recommended proce
dure this would be helpful too.
>>> Doug Gray
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>> On 21 May 2015, at 9:18 am, Denis Walsh wrote
:
>>>>
>>>> Charlie, I have a 6A, and I agree with your ball park figure; however I
would caution there are many variables: prop (cs or fixed), power status (s
topped prop or windmill), airplane weight, Idle rpm of your engine, etc. Th
ere are probably more.
>>>>
>>>> In my case I have an average weight 180hp with c/s prop and low idle sp
eed. I use 80 to 90 knots for glide and across the fence 75K. That leaves a
lot of speed to kill in the flare but I have a low idle speed and lots of d
rag if windmilling. This is what I practice with. It gives a rather steep g
lide and I am sure it would be quite different with a stopped prop or parti
al power, but I feel these would make for a better glide which I could deal w
ith. I always practice with the prop in max RPM so I have max drag.
>>>>
>>>> One can practice for the zero thrust, min drag glide if you fiddle wit
h the throttle to establish zero thrust, but I consider this to be too tough
for me and of minimal value in an emergency which will almost certainly be d
ifferent than you practiced any way! My opinion is the same about practicin
g with coarse pitch glides. I don=99t think you can count on having e
nough oil pressure to go coarse pitch in many engine failure scenarios. So I
just practice the worst case, with low pitch low rpm, and glide at 80-90, u
ntil the field is made then flare, add drag and land. I figure if my emerge
ncy has better glide angle than I have practiced, I can put the flaps down s
ooner or side slip. Coming up short on final is, on the other hand usually n
ot a good option.
>>>>
>>>> I certainly don=99t claim this is the best or the only way to pra
ctice, it=99 s just the way I do it, as you asked, based on a lot of p
ractice over the past 18 years and 3100 hours in the 6A. You would have tho
ught i would have worn it out by now but it is still going strong..
>>>>
>>>> I hope your shoulder heals soon.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Denis Walsh
>>>> denis.walsh(at)comcast.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 20May, 2015, at 11:07, wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting article in Flying mag (may) re dead stick landings. I exp
erimented with determining that quite bit when I first got my 6A, based at L
ZU at the time. That was in late 04/early 05. I never felt I could absolutl
y put a number on it, but settled on 75/80 mph, pretty much speed on final.
This article got me thinking about it again, but due to very recent rt shou
lder surg, I will no be flying for a while. ( think I could manage everythin
g exept flaps but getting in and especially back out may take a while). Anyw
ay, would like to hear from 6A drivers what they would use for dead stick ai
r speed? Charlie H
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>> www.avast.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> class="">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
>>>>> class="">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>>> class="">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D
>>>> st"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
>>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D
>>>> //forums.matronics.com
>>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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D
>>>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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D
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> st"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> //forums.matronics.com
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>
>>
>>
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> st"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> //forums.matronics.com
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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>>
>
>
>
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Best glide speed RV6A |
| From: | "ianxbrown" <ixb(at)videotron.ca> |
Jack Dueck wrote a great article on testing your best glide speed. I've attached
a copy.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442559#442559
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/best_glide_speed_176.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Best glide speed RV6A |
| From: | Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au> |
Thanks, a useful article.
Doug
Sent from my iPad
> On 26 May 2015, at 11:51 am, ianxbrown wrote:
>
>
> Jack Dueck wrote a great article on testing your best glide speed. I've attached
a copy.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442559#442559
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/best_glide_speed_176.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren Brecheisen" <n146wb(at)cfu.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Best glide speed RV6A |
On my RV-6 the rate of descent data indicated a maximum endurance true
airspeed of about 70 knots and maximum range of about 85 knots.
Warren
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Gray
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 4:52 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Best glide speed RV6A
Thanks, a useful article.
Doug
Sent from my iPad
> On 26 May 2015, at 11:51 am, ianxbrown wrote:
>
>
> Jack Dueck wrote a great article on testing your best glide speed. I've
attached a copy.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442559#442559
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/best_glide_speed_176.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Glide ratio, was Re: Best glide speed RV6A |
| From: | GLEN MATEJCEK <fly4grins(at)gmail.com> |
Hi Guys-
I took a look at the cited article and noticed a technical issue. Aside
from some cross-border, or perhaps more likely cross-bureaucracy diction
issues, the article implies that glide ratio varies with aircraft weight.
As I'm sure most will recall, glide ratio is a function of form and speed.
Changing the aircraft weight will result in a corresponding change in the
speed at which best L/D occurs, but not the value of that ratio (not to any
practical, or perhaps even measurable extent).
If interested, one can take a look at the Fed's Glider Handbook,
Aerodynamics of Flight chapter, Glide Ratio section for a good refresher
including a graphical explanation of the effect.
https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aircraft/glider_handbook/media/gfh_ch03.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Best glide speed RV6A |
| From: | "drholling" <drholling(at)yahoo.com> |
ianxbrown wrote:
> Jack Dueck wrote a great article on testing your best glide speed. I've attached
a copy.
Are there more articles like this from Jack? He referenced one about airspeed
in this one. Would be nice to see other Flight Test Cards from him.
Dave
--------
David
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442577#442577
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Best glide speed RV6A |
The CAF foundation did a comprehensive flight review of the RV-6(a) in
1993. Here's the link:
http://cafefoundation.org/v2/pdf_cafe_apr/RV-6A%20Final%20APR.pdf
Basically, it says 70 knots for lowest sink, 92 knots for best glide ratio.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Best glide speed RV6A |
| From: | Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au> |
Kyle, thanks for this document. I think these will be more reliable figures than
what I could measure & calculate even despite the difference in model. Mine
being a 6.
I am reading through the doc for any clues on their methodology.
Doug
Sent from my iPhone
> On 27 May 2015, at 8:40 am,
wrote:
>
>
> The CAF foundation did a comprehensive flight review of the RV-6(a) in 1993.
Here's the link:
>
> http://cafefoundation.org/v2/pdf_cafe_apr/RV-6A%20Final%20APR.pdf
>
> Basically, it says 70 knots for lowest sink, 92 knots for best glide ratio.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stan And Eilene Van <sandevan(at)outlook.com> |
I am writing for a friend. A while back there was a discussion about eye
medication to improve the eyesight to help with getting a person thru their
bi-annual. I failed to write down the name of the medication but now I wish
I had. Can anyone please tell me what was the suggested medication?
Thank you,
Eilene VanGrunsven
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Eye Medication |
| From: | Dale Ensing <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
You may be referring to the nutrients zeaxanthin and lutein which are carote
noids. One nutritional supplement that contains these nutrients is EyePromis
e vizual EDGE.
Dale Ensing
On May 28, 2015, at 2:14, Stan And Eilene Van wrote:
>
> I am writing for a friend. A while back there was a discussion about eye m
edication to improve the eyesight to help with getting a person thru their b
i-annual. I failed to write down the name of the medication but now I wish I
had. Can anyone please tell me what was the suggested medication?
>
> Thank you,
> Eilene VanGrunsven
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stan And Eilene Van <sandevan(at)outlook.com> |
Thank you, I will pass this message on.
Eilene
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Eye Medication
You may be referring to the nutrients zeaxanthin and lutein which are
carotenoids. One nutritional supplement that contains these nutrients is
EyePromise vizual EDGE.
Dale Ensing
On May 28, 2015, at 2:14, Stan And Eilene Van > wrote:
I am writing for a friend. A while back there was a discussion about
eye medication to improve the eyesight to help with getting a person
thru their bi-annual. I failed to write down the name of the medication
but now I wish I had. Can anyone please tell me what was the suggested
medication?
Thank you,
Eilene VanGrunsven
=========
/www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
=========
cs.com
=========
matronics.com/contribution
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HCRV6(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Eye Medication |
You can also purchase these same eye nutrients, lutein and zeaxanthin, individually
in various strengths from any health food store, or better yet, good old
Walmart, and probably others, sell Lutein with zeaxanthin at a very reasonable
price and in several different strengths. my personal experience is that I have
used the latter for about three years and at 82 my eyesight has been improving
steadily. Just my $0.02.
Harry Crosby
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stan And Eilene Van" <sandevan(at)outlook.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 3:32:34 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Eye Medication
Thank you, I will pass this message on.
Eilene
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Eye Medication
You may be referring to the nutrients zeaxanthin and lutein which are carotenoids.
One nutritional supplement that contains these nutrients is EyePromise vizual
EDGE.
Dale Ensing
On May 28, 2015, at 2:14, Stan And Eilene Van < sandevan(at)outlook.com > wrote:
I am writing for a friend. A while back there was a discussion about eye medication
to improve the eyesight to help with getting a person thru their bi-annual.
I failed to write down the name of the medication but now I wish I had. Can
anyone please tell me what was the suggested medication?
Thank you,
Eilene VanGrunsven
===================================
/www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
===================================
cs.com
===================================
matronics.com/contribution
===================================
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dale Ensing <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Eye Medication |
Thanks Harry..good info!
Dale Ensing
On May 28, 2015, at 18:45, HCRV6(at)comcast.net wrote:
> You can also purchase these same eye nutrients, lutein and zeaxanthin, ind
ividually in various strengths from any health food store, or better yet, go
od old Walmart, and probably others, sell Lutein with zeaxanthin at a very r
easonable price and in several different strengths. my personal experience i
s that I have used the latter for about three years and at 82 my eyesight ha
s been improving steadily. Just my $0.02.
>
> Harry Crosby
>
> From: "Stan And Eilene Van" <sandevan(at)outlook.com>
> To: "RV-List"
> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 3:32:34 PM
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Eye Medication
>
>
> Thank you, I will pass this message on.
> Eilene
>
>
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matr
onics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing
> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 7:27 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Eye Medication
>
> You may be referring to the nutrients zeaxanthin and lutein which are caro
tenoids. One nutritional supplement that contains these nutrients is EyeProm
ise vizual EDGE.
>
> Dale Ensing
>
> On May 28, 2015, at 2:14, Stan And Eilene Van wrote
:
>
>
> I am writing for a friend. A while back there was a discussion about eye m
edication to improve the eyesight to help with getting a person thru their b
i-annual. I failed to write down the name of the medication but now I wish I
had. Can anyone please tell me what was the suggested medication?
>
> Thank you,
> Eilene VanGrunsven
>
>
>
> =========
> /www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> =========================
=========
> cs.com
> =========
> matronics.com/contribution
> =========================
=========
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> t="_blank" data-mce-href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> ta-mce-href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> _blank" data-mce-href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www
.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dale Ensing <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Eye Medication |
Thanks Harry..good info!
Dale Ensing
On May 28, 2015, at 18:45, HCRV6(at)comcast.net wrote:
> You can also purchase these same eye nutrients, lutein and zeaxanthin, ind
ividually in various strengths from any health food store, or better yet, go
od old Walmart, and probably others, sell Lutein with zeaxanthin at a very r
easonable price and in several different strengths. my personal experience i
s that I have used the latter for about three years and at 82 my eyesight ha
s been improving steadily. Just my $0.02.
>
> Harry Crosby
>
> From: "Stan And Eilene Van" <sandevan(at)outlook.com>
> To: "RV-List"
> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 3:32:34 PM
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Eye Medication
>
>
> Thank you, I will pass this message on.
> Eilene
>
>
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matr
onics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing
> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 7:27 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Eye Medication
>
> You may be referring to the nutrients zeaxanthin and lutein which are caro
tenoids. One nutritional supplement that contains these nutrients is EyeProm
ise vizual EDGE.
>
> Dale Ensing
>
> On May 28, 2015, at 2:14, Stan And Eilene Van wrote
:
>
>
> I am writing for a friend. A while back there was a discussion about eye m
edication to improve the eyesight to help with getting a person thru their b
i-annual. I failed to write down the name of the medication but now I wish I
had. Can anyone please tell me what was the suggested medication?
>
> Thank you,
> Eilene VanGrunsven
>
>
>
> =========
> /www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> =========================
=========
> cs.com
> =========
> matronics.com/contribution
> =========================
=========
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> t="_blank" data-mce-href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> ta-mce-href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> _blank" data-mce-href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www
.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <d-burton(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Eye Medication |
Sadly, nutrients purchased from "health food stores" frequently have
none of the advertized ingredients, or ingredients that are not in a
useful form or other harmful ingredients added.
In the case of Lutein in pill form the providers of this product would
be doing you a great favor by not including any Lutein at all in the
magic bottle you buy from them. Lutein in pill form increased your risk
of cancer...
Lutein and Zeanzanthin are fabulous for your vision, but only if you
medicate yourself with them in their natural forms. Kale, carrots and
peaches are a place to start. Enjoy them in good health.
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Eye Medication
You can also purchase these same eye nutrients, lutein and zeaxanthin,
individually in various strengths from any health food store, or better
yet, good old Walmart, and probably others, sell Lutein with zeaxanthin
at a very reasonable price and in several different strengths. my
personal experience is that I have used the latter for about three years
and at 82 my eyesight has been improving steadily. Just my $0.02.
Harry Crosby
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
From: "Stan And Eilene Van" <sandevan(at)outlook.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 3:32:34 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Eye Medication
Thank you, I will pass this message on.
Eilene
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Eye Medication
You may be referring to the nutrients zeaxanthin and lutein which are
carotenoids. One nutritional supplement that contains these nutrients is
EyePromise vizual EDGE.
Dale Ensing
On May 28, 2015, at 2:14, Stan And Eilene Van
wrote:
I am writing for a friend. A while back there was a discussion about
eye medication to improve the eyesight to help with getting a person
thru their bi-annual. I failed to write down the name of the medication
but now I wish I had. Can anyone please tell me what was the suggested
medication?
Thank you,
Eilene VanGrunsven
==========/www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List===
=======cs.com==========matronics.com/co
ntribution=====================
==============
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp
://www.matronics.com/contribution
t="_blank"
data-mce-href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
ta-mce-href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_blank"
data-mce-href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matron
ics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | pouring from 'paint cans' |
I hope I'm not the only one that didn't know this trick .....
I bought a quart of 2-part hi-temp epoxy that came in small 'paint'
cans. I was trying to figure a way to pour the resin (3.3 to 1 by
weight mix) without having to clean out the 'groove' each time. What I
ended up with was two pieces of blue painters tape in the shape of a 'V'
that just covers the inner ring. I have to clean the inner ring before
each pour so the tape will stick to it. I pour the thick part (the 1)
first since it's more viscous than the other (3.3) and use a finger
(wear your rubber gloves!) to wipe the outside residue into the paper
cup on the scale. The resin on the underside of the tape will drain
back into the can, and you just have to remove and dispose of the tape.
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul A. Fisher" <paulf(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: pouring from 'paint cans' |
Good Trick! Thanks!
- Paul
On 6/2/2015 4:36 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
> I hope I'm not the only one that didn't know this trick .....
>
> I bought a quart of 2-part hi-temp epoxy that came in small 'paint'
> cans. I was trying to figure a way to pour the resin (3.3 to 1 by
> weight mix) without having to clean out the 'groove' each time. What
> I ended up with was two pieces of blue painters tape in the shape of a
> 'V' that just covers the inner ring. I have to clean the inner ring
> before each pour so the tape will stick to it. I pour the thick part
> (the 1) first since it's more viscous than the other (3.3) and use a
> finger (wear your rubber gloves!) to wipe the outside residue into the
> paper cup on the scale. The resin on the underside of the tape will
> drain back into the can, and you just have to remove and dispose of
> the tape.
> Linn
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 06/02/15 |
| From: | Vince Frazier <vincefrazier(at)gmail.com> |
Good common sense tip! Thanks Linn!
> 1. 02:37 PM - pouring from 'paint cans' (Linn Walters)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com>
> Subject: RV-List: pouring from 'paint cans'
>
> I hope I'm not the only one that didn't know this trick .....
>
> I bought a quart of 2-part hi-temp epoxy that came in small 'paint'
> cans. I was trying to figure a way to pour the resin (3.3 to 1 by
> weight mix) without having to clean out the 'groove' each time. What I
> ended up with was two pieces of blue painters tape in the shape of a 'V'
> that just covers the inner ring. I have to clean the inner ring before
> each pour so the tape will stick to it. I pour the thick part (the 1)
> first since it's more viscous than the other (3.3) and use a finger
> (wear your rubber gloves!) to wipe the outside residue into the paper
> cup on the scale. The resin on the underside of the tape will drain
> back into the can, and you just have to remove and dispose of the tape.
> Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <cheathco(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | annual condition insp |
Due to shoulder injury, recent surgery, I have only flown my 6A around 15 h
rs this past year, insp due in July. Hate to have to do it with such little
time on her. Is there any kind of waver or some legal way to pass on it th
at any one knows of? Tnx, Charlie Heathco
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | annual condition insp |
The short answer is no.
Carl
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of cheathco(at)cox.net
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 8:36 AM
Subject: RV-List: annual condition insp
Due to shoulder injury, recent surgery, I have only flown my 6A around 15
hrs this past year, insp due in July. Hate to have to do it with such little
time on her. Is there any kind of waver or some legal way to pass on it that
any one knows of? Tnx, Charlie Heathco
_____
Avast logo
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <RV6_Flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: annual condition insp |
The long answer is: "There is NO way."
On 06-09-2015 8:36 AM, cheathco(at)cox.net wrote:
> Due to shoulder injury, recent surgery, I have only flown my 6A around
> 15 hrs this past year, insp due in July. Hate to have to do it with
> such little time on her. Is there any kind of waver or some legal way
> to pass on it that any one knows of? Tnx, Charlie Heathco
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Avast logo
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: annual condition insp |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 7:36 AM, wrote:
> Due to shoulder injury, recent surgery, I have only flown my 6A around
> 15 hrs this past year, insp due in July. Hate to have to do it with such
> little time on her. Is there any kind of waver or some legal way to pass on
> it that any one knows of? Tnx, Charlie Heathco
>
> If you don't fly it, you can wait as long as you want. :-)
I'm only half kidding; if you aren't going to fly it for another month (or
year), you can legally wait until you're almost ready to fly again to do
the inspection. Is this a money issue, or will you be doing the inspection
yourself (repairman's cert)? If you're doing it yourself, it really isn't
that big a deal to do an inspection on most RV's. Assuming no issues, I can
do mine in less than a day, and I have to coordinate with an A&P friend to
actually sign the logbook (purchased the plane so I don't have a
repairman's cert).
I don't know of any way to legally keep flying without a logbook entry
showing an inspection within the past year.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: annual condition insp |
You already have a bunch of good answers.
Does not matter how few hours it has flown, the requirement is there to
do, and plane can not fly after Aug. 1 without the condition inspection
done. While you have to inspect the items in Part 43 Appendix D, you do
not have to do any maintenance beyond the lubrication needed when you
inspect things like wheel bearings and oil screens.
As one other noted, you can wait to do the inspection until you have
been medically released to fly. If that happens to be a little cooler
weather than the middle of the summer, all the better. And remember,
electric screw drivers with good torque control are your friend. Not to
mention having a trusted friend or two help you with the labor.
Kelly
A&P/IA
On 6/9/2015 5:36 AM, cheathco(at)cox.net wrote:
> Due to shoulder injury, recent surgery, I have only flown my 6A around
> 15 hrs this past year, insp due in July. Hate to have to do it with
> such little time on her. Is there any kind of waver or some legal way
> to pass on it that any one knows of? Tnx, Charlie Heathco
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Avast logo
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: annual condition insp |
All the answers pretty much cover your situation. I had an unfortunate
encounter with both NTSB and FAA years ago but one good thing came of
it. In discussions with the FAA guy from FSDO 15 (Orlando FL) who was
checking my logbooks .... which had condition inspections scattered
throughout the year. I correct all squawks as they occur and am
'inspecting' many times a year. He said that as long as I covered all
the inspection items throughout the year I could pick a month in which
to make my logbook entry. However, you have to have the repairman
certificate which allows YOU to do the inspection. I've been doing my
inspections that way ever since.
Most all of us flying homebuilts correct squawks as they occur instead
of deferring them to 'annual time' like the factory-built guys so if you
have the repairman certificate you may have this option.
Also, if you have the repairman certificate, then you can enlist the
help of a good friend (along with a case of beer :-) ) to make the plane
'inspectable' and then you can take a look at it.
Unless you wish to have someone fly it while you're grounded, there's
always the option (mentioned already .... ) to defer the inspection
until you can do it yourself.
Linn
On 6/9/2015 8:36 AM, cheathco(at)cox.net wrote:
> Due to shoulder injury, recent surgery, I have only flown my 6A around
> 15 hrs this past year, insp due in July. Hate to have to do it with
> such little time on her. Is there any kind of waver or some legal way
> to pass on it that any one knows of? Tnx, Charlie Heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: annual condition insp |
| From: | vanremog(at)aol.com |
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PSBfLT0gLSBMaXN0IENvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbiBXZWIgU2l0ZSAtIF8tPSBUaGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHlv
dXIgZ2VuZXJvdXMgc3VwcG9ydCEgXy09IC1NYXR0IERyYWxsZSwgTGlzdCBBZG1pbi4gXy09IC0t
PiBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vY29udHJpYnV0aW9uIF8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09
PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09IA=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <cheathco(at)cox.net> |
Thanks for all the replies, I anticipated the answer, but then again, maybe
? I have been doing most of it, then my A&P finishes with me and does the
logs. Now, re oil change with so little time.(thinking 100 hr comparison) W
hat advise there? I am thinking change oil but not filter, or would you adv
ise, not even changing oil? Thanks in advance, Charlie Heathco
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Doran <dorante(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re anual C I |
On my RV-8A (IO-360), I change oil based on calendar time (4 months) or
run time (25 hrs), whichever occurs first. I consider this a cheap inv
estment to protect a $20k engine. I also always change the filter, prim
arily to do a check of the element for metal. I also get an oil analysi
s.
I also use Camguard.
Pulling the cowl each four months also affords the opportunity to inspec
t the entire engine compartment. I almost always find something that ne
eds tightening or securing.
I may be weird, but I enjoy working not the bird almost as much as flyin
g.
Just my 2 cents.
Tom
> On Jun 10, 2015, at 8:05 AM, cheathco(at)cox.net wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the replies, I anticipated the answer, but then again,
maybe? I have been doing most of it, then my A&P finishes with me and d
oes the logs. Now, re oil change with so little time.(thinking 100 hr co
mparison) What advise there? I am thinking change oil but not filter, or
would you advise, not even changing oil? Thanks in advance, Charlie Hea
thco
>
>
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com
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> ____________________________________________________________
>
____________________________________________________________
Old School Yearbook Pics
View Class Yearbooks Online Free. Search by School & Year. Look Now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/55782f398f2092f3944a0st01duc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <RV6_Flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil change times |
Here is an article on Aircraft Engine Oil change intervals.
http://generalaviationnews.com/2004/12/24/the-no-1-question-of-oil-experts-how-often-should-oil-be-changed/
Lycoming recommends 25-hours with a screen and 50-hours with a spin on
filter or a maximum of 4-months between changes.
My experience with my GMC that I was only driving about 100 mile per
month over a 3-year period, had the valves start making noise when it
was cold. Oil changed fixed the problem. This is an example of where
oil change based on time interval is needed. Does it apply to aircraft
engines?
I recommend following the manufacturers recommendation on oil changes.
Oil and filter is a small cost compared to the cost of the engine or
engine work. If we are having a hard time paying for oil and filter
every 4 months, it is time to get rid of the airplane as it calls into
question if we should be flying an aircraft we own at all
On 06-10-2015 8:05 AM, cheathco(at)cox.net wrote:
> Thanks for all the replies, I anticipated the answer, but then again,
> maybe? I have been doing most of it, then my A&P finishes with me and
> does the logs. Now, re oil change with so little time.(thinking 100 hr
> comparison) What advise there? I am thinking change oil but not
> filter, or would you advise, not even changing oil? Thanks in advance,
> Charlie Heathco
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Avast logo
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <RV6_Flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil change times |
Here is an article on Aircraft Engine Oil change intervals.
http://generalaviationnews.com/2004/12/24/the-no-1-question-of-oil-experts-how-often-should-oil-be-changed/
Lycoming recommends 25-hours with a screen and 50-hours with a spin on
filter or a maximum of 4-months between changes.
My experience with my GMC that I was only driving about 100 mile per
month over a 3-year period, had the valves start making noise when it
was cold. Oil changed fixed the problem. This is an example of where
oil change based on time interval is needed. Does it apply to aircraft
engines?
I recommend following the manufacturers recommendation on oil changes.
Oil and filter is a small cost compared to the cost of the engine or
engine work. If we are having a hard time paying for oil and filter
every 4 months, it is time to get rid of the airplane as it calls into
question if we should be flying an aircraft we own at all
On 06-10-2015 8:05 AM, cheathco(at)cox.net wrote:
> Thanks for all the replies, I anticipated the answer, but then again,
> maybe? I have been doing most of it, then my A&P finishes with me and
> does the logs. Now, re oil change with so little time.(thinking 100 hr
> comparison) What advise there? I am thinking change oil but not
> filter, or would you advise, not even changing oil? Thanks in advance,
> Charlie Heathco
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Avast logo
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
You cannot do the conditional inspection an log "I certify that this
aircraft has been inspected on [insert date] in accordance with the scope
and detail of Appendix D to Part 43, and was found to be in a condition for
safe operation" without doing the oil change and filter inspection.
See Part 43 Appendix D (d)(3).
Carl
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of cheathco(at)cox.net
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 8:06 AM
Subject: RV-List: re anual C I
Thanks for all the replies, I anticipated the answer, but then again, maybe?
I have been doing most of it, then my A&P finishes with me and does the
logs. Now, re oil change with so little time.(thinking 100 hr comparison)
What advise there? I am thinking change oil but not filter, or would you
advise, not even changing oil? Thanks in advance, Charlie Heathco
_____
Avast logo
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net> |
I think we=92ll get a debate going here, because Part 43 does not apply
to:
=93(1) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental
certificate,
unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of airworthiness
certificate for that aircraft; or
(2) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental
certificate
under the provisions of =A721.191 (i)(3) of this chapter, and the
aircraft was
previously issued a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport
category under the provisions of =A721.190 of this chapter.=94
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 8:11 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: re annual C I
You cannot do the conditional inspection an log =93I certify that this
aircraft has been inspected on [insert date] in accordance with the
scope
and detail of Appendix D to Part 43, and was found to be in a condition
for
safe operation=94 without doing the oil change and filter inspection.
See Part 43 Appendix D (d)(3).
Carl
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cheathco(at)cox.net
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 8:06 AM
Subject: RV-List: re anual C I
Thanks for all the replies, I anticipated the answer, but then again,
maybe?
I have been doing most of it, then my A&P finishes with me and does the
logs. Now, re oil change with so little time.(thinking 100 hr
comparison)
What advise there? I am thinking change oil but not filter, or would you
advise, not even changing oil? Thanks in advance, Charlie Heathco
_____
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re annual C I |
Not much of a debate. It is in the standard operating limitations..which
not everyone has, but in general you must use a checklist for your
condition inspection that at a minimum includes everything in Part 43,
Appendix D.
The inspection is the same as type certified aircraft. Only the wording
and who can do it are different.
Kelly
On 6/10/2015 7:25 AM, Bob Collins wrote:
>
> I think well get a debate going here, because Part 43 does not apply to:
>
> (1) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental
> certificate, unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of
> airworthiness certificate for that aircraft; or
>
> (2) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental
> certificate under the provisions of 21.191 (i)(3) of this chapter,
> and the aircraft was previously issued a special airworthiness
> certificate in the light-sport category under the provisions of
> 21.190 of this chapter.
>
> *From:*owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Carl Froehlich
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 10, 2015 8:11 AM
> *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV-List: re annual C I
>
> You cannot do the conditional inspection an log I certify that this
> aircraft has been inspected on [insert date] in accordance with the
> scope and detail of Appendix D to Part 43, and was found to be in a
> condition for safe operation without doing the oil change and filter
> inspection.
>
> See Part 43 Appendix D (d)(3).
>
> Carl
>
> //
>
> *From:*owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *cheathco(at)cox.net
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 10, 2015 8:06 AM
> *To:* RV-List Digest Server
> *Subject:* RV-List: re anual C I
>
> Thanks for all the replies, I anticipated the answer, but then again,
> maybe? I have been doing most of it, then my A&P finishes with me and
> does the logs. Now, re oil change with so little time.(thinking 100 hr
> comparison) What advise there? I am thinking change oil but not
> filter, or would you advise, not even changing oil? Thanks in advance,
> Charlie Heathco
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Avast logo
>
>
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <RV6_Flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re annual C I |
BUT the Operating Limitations that were issued with the 8130-7 Special
Airworthiness Certificate says:
>
> Condition inspections must be recorded in the aircraft maintenance
> records showing the following=2C or a similarly worded=2C statement:
>
> *=93I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on [insert date] in
> accordance with the scope and detail of 14 CFR part 43 appendix D=2C and
> was found to be in a condition for safe operation.=94*
>
> **
>
> The entry will include the aircraft=92s total time-in-service=2C and the
> name=2C signature=2C certificate number=2C and type of certificate held b
y
> the person performing the inspection.
43 Appendix D part (d)(3) says nothing about oil change.
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library%5CrgFAR.nsf/0/F7054277E4
C9DC9586257913006500B2?OpenDocument
> (d) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall
> inspect (where applicable) components of the engine and nacelle group
> as follows:
> (3) Internal engine--for cylinder compression and for metal particles
> or foreign matter on screens and sump drain plugs. If there is weak
> cylinder compression=2C for improper internal condition and improper
> internal tolerances.
IF the owner operator recently did an oil change and the Repairman / A&P
was not around to witness=2C the oil could be returned to the engine after
the pickup screen is inspected. The pickup screen inspection would
remove all the oil out of the engine. The cost for the labor to do the
task in this manor could approach the price of new oil.
On 06-10-2015 10:25 AM=2C Bob Collins wrote:
>
> I think we=92ll get a debate going here=2C because Part 43 does not apply
to:
>
> =93(1) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental
> certificate=2C unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of
> airworthiness certificate for that aircraft=3B or
>
> (2) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental
> certificate under the provisions of =A721.191 (i)(3) of this chapter=2C
> and the aircraft was previously issued a special airworthiness
> certificate in the light-sport category under the provisions of
> =A721.190 of this chapter.=94
>
> *From:*owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Carl Froehlich
> *Sent:* Wednesday=2C June 10=2C 2015 8:11 AM
> *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV-List: re annual C I
>
> You cannot do the conditional inspection an log =93I certify that this
> aircraft has been inspected on [insert date] in accordance with the
> scope and detail of Appendix D to Part 43=2C and was found to be in a
> condition for safe operation=94 without doing the oil change and filter
> inspection.
>
> See Part 43 Appendix D (d)(3).
>
> Carl
>
> //
>
> *From:*owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *cheathco(at)cox.net
> *Sent:* Wednesday=2C June 10=2C 2015 8:06 AM
> *To:* RV-List Digest Server
> *Subject:* RV-List: re anual C I
>
> Thanks for all the replies=2C I anticipated the answer=2C but then again
=2C
> maybe? I have been doing most of it=2C then my A&P finishes with me and
> does the logs. Now=2C re oil change with so little time.(thinking 100 hr
> comparison) What advise there? I am thinking change oil but not
> filter=2C or would you advise=2C not even changing oil? Thanks in advance
=2C
> Charlie Heathco
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Avast logo
>
>
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: re annual C I |
| From: | John Trollinger <john(at)trollingers.com> |
Looking at Part 43, I do not see where it requires an oil change? It only
mentions oil twice and neither time does it refer to changing the oil.
On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 9:10 AM, Carl Froehlich
wrote:
> You cannot do the conditional inspection an log =9CI certify that t
his
> aircraft has been inspected on [insert date] in accordance with the scope
> and detail of Appendix D to Part 43, and was found to be in a condition f
or
> safe operation=9D without doing the oil change and filter inspectio
n.
>
>
> See Part 43 Appendix D (d)(3).
>
>
> Carl
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *cheathco(at)cox.net
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 10, 2015 8:06 AM
> *To:* RV-List Digest Server
> *Subject:* RV-List: re anual C I
>
>
> Thanks for all the replies, I anticipated the answer, but then again,
> maybe? I have been doing most of it, then my A&P finishes with me and do
es
> the logs. Now, re oil change with so little time.(thinking 100 hr
> comparison) What advise there? I am thinking change oil but not filter, o
r
> would you advise, not even changing oil? Thanks in advance, Charlie Heath
co
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> [image: Avast logo]
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com
>
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ics.com/Navigator?RV-List>
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===========
om/contribution>
===========
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
Good point =93 but it does say to look at screens and such for
metal particles or foreign matter. I guess you can do this without
changing the oil or you can drain the oil and reuse it. I=99d
offer that the pain and mess to do either is not worth it.
I also read this as needing to cut open the oil filter to look for metal
particles. Other may disagree.
So =93 while not optimal ground run the engine to get the oil temp
up and just change the oil and filter.
Carl
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Trollinger
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: re annual C I
Looking at Part 43, I do not see where it requires an oil change? It
only mentions oil twice and neither time does it refer to changing the
oil.
On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 9:10 AM, Carl Froehlich
wrote:
You cannot do the conditional inspection an log =9CI certify that
this aircraft has been inspected on [insert date] in accordance with the
scope and detail of Appendix D to Part 43, and was found to be in a
condition for safe operation=9D without doing the oil change and
filter inspection.
See Part 43 Appendix D (d)(3).
Carl
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cheathco(at)cox.net
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 8:06 AM
Subject: RV-List: re anual C I
Thanks for all the replies, I anticipated the answer, but then again,
maybe? I have been doing most of it, then my A&P finishes with me and
does the logs. Now, re oil change with so little time.(thinking 100 hr
comparison) What advise there? I am thinking change oil but not filter,
or would you advise, not even changing oil? Thanks in advance, Charlie
Heathco
_____
Avast logo
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <cheathco(at)cox.net> |
I have the inspection list, 3 pages If I recall. I got it from an RV driver
at LZU. Yesterday Morn I decided to just go ahead with same full annual t
hat I have always done. I shoot for 1st week of jul a bit ahead of the real
ly hot part of the month, that is about a month ahead of shoulder recovery
time, so may have to have my A&P do a little more than ususal. Thanks for a
ll your input. Charlie FYV
---
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Re oil change |
Highly recommend you compare that list you have with what is listed in
Part 43, Appendix D. You may be able to eliminate some of items on the
list you have, while you need to know you are complying with the
regulation of what must be inspected.
Kelly
A&P/IA
EAA Tech Counselor
On 6/11/2015 4:27 AM, cheathco(at)cox.net wrote:
> I have the inspection list, 3 pages If I recall. I got it from an RV
> driver at LZU. Yesterday Morn I decided to just go ahead with same
> full annual that I have always done. I shoot for 1st week of jul a bit
> ahead of the really hot part of the month, that is about a month ahead
> of shoulder recovery time, so may have to have my A&P do a little more
> than ususal. Thanks for all your input. Charlie FYV
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Avast logo
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com
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>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New (Free) Aviation App |
| From: | "gbrasch" <gmbrasch(at)gmail.com> |
Quick update, 18,000 launches, more discounts being added for users, more positive
national press coverage and keeping it free to pilots. Thanks, Glenn
--------
Glenn Brasch
RV-9A Flying
1952 Piper Tri-Pacer
Medevac Helicopter Pilot (Ret)
Tucson, Arizona
Owner, "Airport Courtesy Cars" Smart Phone App.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443518#443518
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of both
the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just order
up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125 on
the RV-6.
I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the following:
Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option
is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge
will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic!
That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with a
company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
This doesn't sound right. Sounds to me like someone just didn't want to deal
with you (and it likely wasn't Garmin in this case). I don't know what or
how you handled yourself, but sometimes you'll get more with honey than with
vinegar - or perhaps the person you spoke with perhaps was slightly
mis-informed.
To be blunt, the lenses should be readily available (at least they were last
time we got some). I'm sorry they aren't a $4 piece of plexi (there is some
fancy schmancy coatings on them and such), but the GTX lens is around $26
and I think the SL lens around $65.
My recommendation would be to calm down a bit, sit back and take a breath
before indicting Garmin in their entirety based on a conversation with one
person.
Not defending anyone or indicting or flaming anyone, but your experience
just sounds like we don't have the "whole story".....might I humbly suggest
that before blasting this to every list you manage that you perhaps speak to
someone else first (or maybe even Garmin directly)?
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 1:11 PM
Subject: RV-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens
of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll
just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King
KX-125 on the RV-6.
I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the
following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only
option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the
MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4
pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business
with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
| From: | John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com> |
Yep. I got the same message for a $0.50 part for my SL-30. I just wanted the
part. It can be replaced without opening the unit. Amazing arrogance.
> On Jun 17, 2015, at 11:10 AM, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>
> In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of
both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just
order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125
on the RV-6.
>
> I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the
following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option
is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM
charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic!
That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
>
> I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with
a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
>
>
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Pichon <deanpichon(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
A year ago=2C I replaced the lens on my SL-60. Garmin sold it to me for $2
0 or so. In May=2C I learned that after June 30=2C they will no longer ser
vice the SL-60 and a number of other SL products (-50=2C -60=2C -70). I be
grudgingly sent my (working) radio to Garmin and paid $550 for a flat rate
repair. I hope this (expensive) step gives me a few more years before my r
adio becomes worthless. It is very frustrating that Garmin will no longer
work on it and no one else can.
> Date: Wed=2C 17 Jun 2015 11:10:36 -0700
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> From: dralle(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
>
>
> In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently=2C I managed to get a scratch in the l
ens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie=2C I thought
=2C I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in=2C much like I did o
n the King KX-125 on the RV-6.
>
> I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told
the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup=2C you hear that right. M
y only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and
the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two
$4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly=2C criminal behav
ior.
>
> I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business
with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
>
>
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
Before making my original post, I had contacted two different Avionics shops and
received the exact same story, so I didn't base my findings on a single vendor.
I have subsequently contacted Garmin directly and was told that the parts
are in fact orderable by dealers. But, when those same avionics dealers call the
Garmin parts department they are told they are not allowed to order those parts.
So, something is definitely not quite lining up here. I guess I apologize
to the community for venting my frustration with this process, but this really
shouldn't be this difficult. I will follow up with more information on this
debacle as it hopefully progresses.
Btw, the lens part number for the SL-30 is 308-3201-42 and the lens for the GTX-327
is 470-00034-00.
Matt
At 11:10 AM 6/17/2015 Wednesday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of
both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just
order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125 on
the RV-6.
>
>I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the following:
Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option
is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge
will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic!
That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
>
>I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with
a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
>
>
>-
>Matt Dralle
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ace Pilot <acepilot(at)bloomer.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
I'm kind of going through the same thing with Wag Aero here in
Wisconsin. I need replacement landing gear springs, but all they sell
is a "kit" with the springs AND gear leg blanks. I do NOT intend to
build a whole new landing gear...my legs are fine...just the srpings are
shot. What a CROCK when a company will not sell replacement parts for
"complete assemblies" they sell. Chaps my a$$ (ie, $300 just to get a
set of springs)...
Ace
On 6/17/2015 6:10 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle
>
> In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of
both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just
order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125
on the RV-6.
>
> I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the
following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option
is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM
charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic!
That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
>
> I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with
a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
>
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HCRV6(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
Matt,
No apology required or warranted, the only way suppliers will learn to treat their
customers decently and to get their own house in order if that's the problem
here, is to broadcast this kind of outrageous policy to the entire customer
community. Maybe an abrupt drop in sales will get their attention. I for one
just eliminated the G3X from consideration for my future panel upgrade unless
this kind of BS ceases.
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 1286 hours.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 2:36:32 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
Before making my original post, I had contacted two different Avionics shops and
received the exact same story, so I didn't base my findings on a single vendor.
I have subsequently contacted Garmin directly and was told that the parts
are in fact orderable by dealers. But, when those same avionics dealers call the
Garmin parts department they are told they are not allowed to order those parts.
So, something is definitely not quite lining up here. I guess I apologize
to the community for venting my frustration with this process, but this really
shouldn't be this difficult. I will follow up with more information on this
debacle as it hopefully progresses.
Btw, the lens part number for the SL-30 is 308-3201-42 and the lens for the GTX-327
is 470-00034-00.
Matt
At 11:10 AM 6/17/2015 Wednesday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of
both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just
order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125 on
the RV-6.
>
>I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the following:
Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option
is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge
will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic!
That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
>
>I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with
a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
>
>
>-
>Matt Dralle
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bigdog(at)bentwing.com" <bigdog(at)bentwing.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Avionics-List: Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
A few years ago I was able to get lenses for an SL-30 and SL-70. I went through
Avionics Unlimited in Conroe, TX. (936) 788-7333. Talk to Johnny Blain. IIRC
they were about $60 each. Yeah, that seems high but I hear Bendix charges $120
for theirs. The new ones were actually nicer than my originals circa 2001. They
have the adhesive built in and install nicely once the old lens is pried off
and the old adhesive cleaned off.
Regards,
Greg Young
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-avionics-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-avionics-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 4:39 PM
Subject: Avionics-List: Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
--> Avionics-List message posted by: Matt Dralle
Before making my original post, I had contacted two different Avionics shops and
received the exact same story, so I didn't base my findings on a single vendor.
I have subsequently contacted Garmin directly and was told that the parts
are in fact orderable by dealers. But, when those same avionics dealers call the
Garmin parts department they are told they are not allowed to order those parts.
So, something is definitely not quite lining up here. I guess I apologize
to the community for venting my frustration with this process, but this really
shouldn't be this difficult. I will follow up with more information on this
debacle as it hopefully progresses.
Btw, the lens part number for the SL-30 is 308-3201-42 and the lens for the GTX-327
is 470-00034-00.
Matt
At 11:13 AM 6/17/2015 Wednesday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of
both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just
order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125 on
the RV-6.
>
>I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the following:
Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option
is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge
will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic!
That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
>
>I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with
a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
>
>-
>Matt Dralle
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore Airport.
Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wag Aero springs was Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
Ace,
I would suggest you take your old units to a local spring manufacturer, OR try
to source equivalent units from either MSC or McMaster-Carr.
Charlie
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 6/17/15, Ace Pilot wrote:
Subject: Re: RV-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2015, 5:59 PM
I'm kind of going through the same thing with Wag
Aero here in
Wisconsin. I need replacement landing gear
springs, but all they
sell is a "kit" with the springs AND gear leg
blanks. I do NOT
intend to build a whole new landing gear...my legs are
fine...just
the srpings are shot. What a CROCK when a company
will not sell
replacement parts for "complete assemblies"
they sell. Chaps my a$$
(ie, $300 just to get a set of springs)...
Ace
On 6/17/2015 6:10 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a
scratch in the lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin
GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just order up a
replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King
KX-125 on the RV-6.
I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts
and was told the following: Garmin will not sell the lens.
Yup, you hear that right. My only option is to return both
units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the
MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to
replace two $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous!
Frankly, criminal behavior.
I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to
do business with a company that treats their customers this
way. Unacceptable.
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8
Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV
YouTube Channel
Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com -
Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the
Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions.
Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wag Aero springs was Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
My first thought, and I'm sure Ace has been down this path .... you
really don't know the springs compression value ..... it's now less than
when new .... or the rate ..... so trying to make or source one becomes
problematical.
I'm going to guess that Wag Aero doesn't build the gear/springs
themselves but contracts with an outside source. If you can find them,
then you'd have a better chance of getting just the springs.
Linn
On 6/17/2015 7:44 PM, Charles Kuss wrote:
>
> Ace,
> I would suggest you take your old units to a local spring manufacturer, OR
try to source equivalent units from either MSC or McMaster-Carr.
> Charlie
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 6/17/15, Ace Pilot wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2015, 5:59 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm kind of going through the same thing with Wag
> Aero here in
> Wisconsin. I need replacement landing gear
> springs, but all they
> sell is a "kit" with the springs AND gear leg
> blanks. I do NOT
> intend to build a whole new landing gear...my legs are
> fine...just
> the srpings are shot. What a CROCK when a company
> will not sell
> replacement parts for "complete assemblies"
> they sell. Chaps my a$$
> (ie, $300 just to get a set of springs)...
>
>
>
> Ace
>
>
>
> On 6/17/2015 6:10 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>
> In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a
> scratch in the lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin
> GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just order up a
> replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King
> KX-125 on the RV-6.
>
> I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts
> and was told the following: Garmin will not sell the lens.
> Yup, you hear that right. My only option is to return both
> units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the
> MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to
> replace two $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous!
> Frankly, criminal behavior.
>
> I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to
> do business with a company that treats their customers this
> way. Unacceptable.
>
>
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8
> Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV
> YouTube Channel
> Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com -
> Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the
> Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions.
> Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
I see no reason for an apology, and I'm glad you posted your experience.
I've heard the exact same story (outrageous flat-rate fees for *any*
repair, even a 'checkout') about Garmin for many years from many different
owners. I've even experienced it myself, with Garmin wanting around $150 to
replace the $4 backup battery in my GPS III Pilot portable. When I cornered
a Garmin rep about it at a major flyin, he offered to give me a 'deal' at
$70 if I sent it to his attention after the flyin. And the portable isn't
even a 'certified' device.
BTW, I'd like to thank Matt for keeping these lists up and running and
avoiding the ugliness of censorship, which is rampant on the VAF forum. For
those who don't follow it closely, Matt's recent thread on the Garmin
service subject didn't last a day before it was deleted (can't have one of
your advertisers called out in public, can you.....). I sometimes go for
much longer than I should without donating to Matt, and incidents like that
remind me why I should donate every year.
Charlie
On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 4:36 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
> Before making my original post, I had contacted two different Avionics
> shops and received the exact same story, so I didn't base my findings on a
> single vendor. I have subsequently contacted Garmin directly and was told
> that the parts are in fact orderable by dealers. But, when those same
> avionics dealers call the Garmin parts department they are told they are
> not allowed to order those parts. So, something is definitely not quite
> lining up here. I guess I apologize to the community for venting my
> frustration with this process, but this really shouldn't be this difficult.
> I will follow up with more information on this debacle as it hopefully
> progresses.
>
> Btw, the lens part number for the SL-30 is 308-3201-42 and the lens for
> the GTX-327 is 470-00034-00.
>
> Matt
>
>
> At 11:10 AM 6/17/2015 Wednesday, Matt Dralle wrote:
> >In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the
> lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought,
> I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the
> King KX-125 on the RV-6.
> >
> >I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told
> the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My
> only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and
> the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two
> $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
> >
> >I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business
> with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
> >
> >
> >-
> >Matt Dralle
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
Just to put in my plug for the local guy.
When I first read Matt=99s post, my thought was,
=9Cdidn=99t buy it from Stein.=9D Which is why I was
also interested in Stein=99s response.
Remember, this is a guy who took a personal bath a few years ago when
the alternative was a big company was going to screw his customers.
So this is just a reminder to support those shops that have a history of
supporting the RV community, especially those who ARE in the RV
community. It makes a big difference.
Glad all of this worked out.
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
Matt,
No apology required or warranted, the only way suppliers will learn to
treat their customers decently and to get their own house in order if
that's the problem here, is to broadcast this kind of outrageous policy
to the entire customer community. Maybe an abrupt drop in sales will
get their attention. I for one just eliminated the G3X from
consideration for my future panel upgrade unless this kind of BS ceases.
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 1286 hours.
_____
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com <mailto:dralle(at)matronics.com>
>
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 2:36:32 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
>
Before making my original post, I had contacted two different Avionics
shops and received the exact same story, so I didn't base my findings on
a single vendor. I have subsequently contacted Garmin directly and was
told that the parts are in fact orderable by dealers. But, when those
same avionics dealers call the Garmin parts department they are told
they are not allowed to order those parts. So, something is definitely
not quite lining up here. I guess I apologize to the community for
venting my frustration with this process, but this really shouldn't be
this difficult. I will follow up with more information on this debacle
as it hopefully progresses.
Btw, the lens part number for the SL-30 is 308-3201-42 and the lens for
the GTX-327 is 470-00034-00.
Matt
At 11:10 AM 6/17/2015 Wednesday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the
lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I
thought, I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I
did on the King KX-125 on the RV-6.
>
>I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was
told the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that
right. My only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory
repair" and the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070
to replace two $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly,
criminal behavior.
>
>I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do
business with a company that treats their customers this way.
Unacceptable.
>
>
>-
>Matt Dralle
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
I'd like to pipe up here and defend Matt as well. If we don't identify these issues,
then we can't effect change. There are phases in the process of resolve
issues. Near the top of the list is initial outrage at the injustice of a particular
action.
Matt strikes me as a smart responsible individual and his outrage is understandable.
If we are going to get a large corporation to rethink their strategy then
we too need to stand up as say we're mad as hell and are not gong t take this
anymore. Let Garmin know that there are consequences to their actions.
-GV
-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2015 5:00 am
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
I see no reason for an apology, and I'm glad you posted your experience. I've heard
the exact same story (outrageous flat-rate fees for *any* repair, even a
'checkout') about Garmin for many years from many different owners. I've even
experienced it myself, with Garmin wanting around $150 to replace the $4 backup
battery in my GPS III Pilot portable. When I cornered a Garmin rep about it
at a major flyin, he offered to give me a 'deal' at $70 if I sent it to his attention
after the flyin. And the portable isn't even a 'certified' device.
BTW, I'd like to thank Matt for keeping these lists up and running and avoiding
the ugliness of censorship, which is rampant on the VAF forum. For those who
don't follow it closely, Matt's recent thread on the Garmin service subject didn't
last a day before it was deleted (can't have one of your advertisers called
out in public, can you.....). I sometimes go for much longer than I should
without donating to Matt, and incidents like that remind me why I should donate
every year.
Charlie
On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 4:36 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
Before making my original post, I had contacted two different Avionics shops and
received the exact same story, so I didn't base my findings on a single vendor.
I have subsequently contacted Garmin directly and was told that the parts
are in fact orderable by dealers. But, when those same avionics dealers call
the Garmin parts department they are told they are not allowed to order those
parts. So, something is definitely not quite lining up here. I guess I apologize
to the community for venting my frustration with this process, but this really
shouldn't be this difficult. I will follow up with more information on this
debacle as it hopefully progresses.
Btw, the lens part number for the SL-30 is 308-3201-42 and the lens for the GTX-327
is 470-00034-00.
Matt
At 11:10 AM 6/17/2015 Wednesday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of
both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just
order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125
on the RV-6.
>
>I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the
following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option
is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM
charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic!
That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
>
>I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with
a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
>
>
>-
>Matt Dralle
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
===========
ist" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ace Pilot <acepilot(at)bloomer.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
I've also been successful with Wag Aero for replacement landing gear
springs for my Corben. Their complete "kit" of gear leg blanks and
springs is $307. I just got an email from them today and can get just
what I need (the SPRINGS ONLY) for $49.50 each...so $100 vs $307.
Another win getting the grease (concession) applied to the squeaky wheel
(ME!)...
Ace
On 6/18/2015 3:47 PM, vanremog(at)aol.com wrote:
> I'd like to pipe up here and defend Matt as well. If we don't
> identify these issues, then we can't effect change. There are phases
> in the process of resolve issues. Near the top of the list is initial
> outrage at the injustice of a particular action.
> Matt strikes me as a smart responsible individual and his outrage is
> understandable. If we are going to get a large corporation to rethink
> their strategy then we too need to stand up as say we're mad as hell
> and are not gong t take this anymore. Let Garmin know that there are
> consequences to their actions.
> -GV
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
> To: RV list
> Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2015 5:00 am
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
>
> I see no reason for an apology, and I'm glad you posted your
> experience. I've heard the exact same story (outrageous flat-rate fees
> for *any* repair, even a 'checkout') about Garmin for many years from
> many different owners. I've even experienced it myself, with Garmin
> wanting around $150 to replace the $4 backup battery in my GPS III
> Pilot portable. When I cornered a Garmin rep about it at a major
> flyin, he offered to give me a 'deal' at $70 if I sent it to his
> attention after the flyin. And the portable isn't even a 'certified'
> device.
>
> BTW, I'd like to thank Matt for keeping these lists up and running and
> avoiding the ugliness of censorship, which is rampant on the VAF
> forum. For those who don't follow it closely, Matt's recent thread on
> the Garmin service subject didn't last a day before it was deleted
> (can't have one of your advertisers called out in public, can
> you.....). I sometimes go for much longer than I should without
> donating to Matt, and incidents like that remind me why I should
> donate every year.
>
> Charlie
>
> On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 4:36 PM, Matt Dralle > wrote:
>
> >
>
> Before making my original post, I had contacted two different
> Avionics shops and received the exact same story, so I didn't base
> my findings on a single vendor. I have subsequently contacted
> Garmin directly and was told that the parts are in fact orderable
> by dealers. But, when those same avionics dealers call the Garmin
> parts department they are told they are not allowed to order those
> parts. So, something is definitely not quite lining up here. I
> guess I apologize to the community for venting my frustration with
> this process, but this really shouldn't be this difficult. I will
> follow up with more information on this debacle as it hopefully
> progresses.
>
> Btw, the lens part number for the SL-30 is 308-3201-42 and the
> lens for the GTX-327 is 470-00034-00.
>
> Matt
>
>
> At 11:10 AM 6/17/2015 Wednesday, Matt Dralle wrote:
> >In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in
> the lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No
> biggie, I thought, I'll just order up a replacement and stick them
> in, much like I did on the King KX-125 on the RV-6.
> >
> >I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and
> was told the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you
> hear that right. My only option is to return both units to Garmin
> for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for
> EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic! That
> is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
> >
> >I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do
> business with a company that treats their customers this way.
> Unacceptable.
> >
> >
> >-
> >Matt Dralle
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the
> Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives
> too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
> ==========
> ist" rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> ==========
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List>
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List>
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ruby Vixen 2.0 Flying? |
Matt,
I recently subscribed to the RV-List, and noticed on your signature that Ruby
Vixen 2.0 is flying. The last builder's log entry showed she was ready for
taxi tests, so I figured she was in the air by now, and I've been checking for
updates. I'm hoping that you'll share more log entries and YouTube videos
soon; it's been an interesting project to follow.
I'm awaiting my first Tech Counselor inspection before I close up my horizontal
stabilizer. Moving forward... and eventually upward.
MJF
Clarkston, MI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | NTSB releases Tony Kelly probable cause |
A lot of fans of VAF might be familiar with Tony Kelly's crash in Hamilton
Township, NJ in September 2013. The discussion of the aftermath online
seemed to focus on the RV-7 design.
The length of time it took to come up with a probable cause only added to
the speculation.
But it was not, apparently, a design failure. It an improperly executed
aerobatic maneuver, the NTSB says.
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/2015/06/ntsb-aerobatic-maneuver-killed-tony
.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Houston, we have a potential problem |
I had a lights out total failure of my Bendix/King KLX135A a few months back during
a day trip and returned NORDO back into LVK. LAC at SJC did the repair on
it (failed electrolytic capacitors in the power section) for several hundred
$$. The repaired unit operated fine until about halfway thru a recent flight,
when just the receiver section failed, and again back to LVK. LAC honored the
previous repair bill and fixed it again (this time leaky electrolytic caps
on another CCA deeper within the unit).
The tech told me there are more electrolytic caps throughout the unit that could
fail in the future. I work with defense electronics so am comfortable with
attempting repairs of this type in the future. I don't want this transceiver
to nickel and dime me to death and would like to get my own copy of the KLX135A
service or technical manual to assist in that endeavor if a .pdf copy exists
anywhere.
I talked to Shane at B/K customer service and he indicated that, since it is a
discontinued unit, it would not be unlawful for a dealer or service center to
give me a copy. I will be checking with LAC to see if they are willing to do
this, but I also wanted to ask you all.
I would be most appreciative.
-Thx
GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Houston, we have a potential problem |
Boom!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/King-KLX-135-and-KLX-135A-GPS-Comm-Service-Manual-/190635239443
Matt Dralle
At 05:36 PM 6/29/2015 Monday, you wrote:
>I had a lights out total failure of my Bendix/King KLX135A a few months back during
a day trip and returned NORDO back into LVK. LAC at SJC did the repair
on it (failed electrolytic capacitors in the power section) for several hundred
$$. The repaired unit operated fine until about halfway thru a recent flight,
when just the receiver section failed, and again back to LVK. LAC honored
the previous repair bill and fixed it again (this time leaky electrolytic caps
on another CCA deeper within the unit).
>
>The tech told me there are more electrolytic caps throughout the unit that could
fail in the future. I work with defense electronics so am comfortable with
attempting repairs of this type in the future. I don't want this transceiver
to nickel and dime me to death and would like to get my own copy of the KLX135A
service or technical manual to assist in that endeavor if a .pdf copy exists
anywhere.
>
>I talked to Shane at B/K customer service and he indicated that, since it is a
discontinued unit, it would not be unlawful for a dealer or service center to
give me a copy. I will be checking with LAC to see if they are willing to do
this, but I also wanted to ask you all.
>
>I would be most appreciative.
>
>-Thx
>
>GV
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Houston, we have a potential problem |
| From: | don van santen <donvansanten(at)gmail.com> |
Matt,
Did you send a copy to Bob N? I send him all the manuals I get for his
library.
Don
On Jun 29, 2015 5:48 PM, "Matt Dralle" wrote:
>
> Boom!
>
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/King-KLX-135-and-KLX-135A-GPS-Comm-Service-Manual-/190635239443
>
> Matt Dralle
>
>
> At 05:36 PM 6/29/2015 Monday, you wrote:
> >I had a lights out total failure of my Bendix/King KLX135A a few months
> back during a day trip and returned NORDO back into LVK. LAC at SJC did
> the repair on it (failed electrolytic capacitors in the power section) for
> several hundred $$. The repaired unit operated fine until about halfway
> thru a recent flight, when just the receiver section failed, and again back
> to LVK. LAC honored the previous repair bill and fixed it again (this time
> leaky electrolytic caps on another CCA deeper within the unit).
> >
> >The tech told me there are more electrolytic caps throughout the unit
> that could fail in the future. I work with defense electronics so am
> comfortable with attempting repairs of this type in the future. I don't
> want this transceiver to nickel and dime me to death and would like to get
> my own copy of the KLX135A service or technical manual to assist in that
> endeavor if a .pdf copy exists anywhere.
> >
> >I talked to Shane at B/K customer service and he indicated that, since it
> is a discontinued unit, it would not be unlawful for a dealer or service
> center to give me a copy. I will be checking with LAC to see if they are
> willing to do this, but I also wanted to ask you all.
> >
> >I would be most appreciative.
> >
> >-Thx
> >
> >GV
>
>
> Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550
> 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Houston, we have a potential problem |
Thx Matt!
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Mon, Jun 29, 2015 5:46 pm
Subject: Re: RV-List: Houston, we have a potential problem
Boom!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/King-KLX-135-and-KLX-135A-GPS-Comm-Service-Manual-/190635239443
Matt
Dralle
At 05:36 PM 6/29/2015 Monday, you wrote:
>I had a lights out total
failure of my Bendix/King KLX135A a few months back during a day trip and
returned NORDO back into LVK. LAC at SJC did the repair on it (failed
electrolytic capacitors in the power section) for several hundred $$. The
repaired unit operated fine until about halfway thru a recent flight, when just
the receiver section failed, and again back to LVK. LAC honored the previous
repair bill and fixed it again (this time leaky electrolytic caps on another CCA
deeper within the unit).
>
>The tech told me there are more electrolytic caps
throughout the unit that could fail in the future. I work with defense
electronics so am comfortable with attempting repairs of this type in the
future. I don't want this transceiver to nickel and dime me to death and would
like to get my own copy of the KLX135A service or technical manual to assist in
that endeavor if a .pdf copy exists anywhere.
>
>I talked to Shane at B/K
customer service and he indicated that, since it is a discontinued unit, it
would not be unlawful for a dealer or service center to give me a copy. I will
be checking with LAC to see if they are willing to do this, but I also wanted to
ask you all.
>
>I would be most appreciative.
>
>-Thx
>
>GV
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA |
94550
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com
Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For
Aircraft
- The RV-List Email Forum -
browse
Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
Forums!
http://forums.matronics.com
- List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Houston, we have a potential problem |
If I can get this I will send Bob a copy.
-GV
-----Original Message-----
From: don van santen <donvansanten(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Jun 29, 2015 5:55 pm
Subject: Re: RV-List: Houston, we have a potential problem
Matt,
Did you send a copy to Bob N? I send him all the manuals I get for his library.
Don
On Jun 29, 2015 5:48 PM, "Matt Dralle" < dralle(at)matronics.com> wrote:
Boom!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/King-KLX-135-and-KLX-135A-GPS-Comm-Service-Manual-/190635239443
Matt Dralle
At 05:36 PM 6/29/2015 Monday, you wrote:
>I had a lights out total failure of my Bendix/King KLX135A a few months back
during a day trip and returned NORDO back into LVK. LAC at SJC did the repair
on it (failed electrolytic capacitors in the power section) for several hundred
$$. The repaired unit operated fine until about halfway thru a recent flight,
when just the receiver section failed, and again back to LVK. LAC honored
the previous repair bill and fixed it again (this time leaky electrolytic caps
on another CCA deeper within the unit).
>
>The tech told me there are more electrolytic caps throughout the unit that could
fail in the future. I work with defense electronics so am comfortable with
attempting repairs of this type in the future. I don't want this transceiver
to nickel and dime me to death and would like to get my own copy of the KLX135A
service or technical manual to assist in that endeavor if a .pdf copy exists
anywhere.
>
>I talked to Shane at B/K customer service and he indicated that, since it is
a discontinued unit, it would not be unlawful for a dealer or service center to
give me a copy. I will be checking with LAC to see if they are willing to do
this, but I also wanted to ask you all.
>
>I would be most appreciative.
>
>-Thx
>
>GV
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
===========
ist" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Houston, we have a potential problem |
| From: | Dave RR <dwhite17(at)columbus.rr.com> |
Matt: please remove me from the list: dwhite17(at)columbus.rr.com
thanks
Dave
> On Jun 29, 2015, at 8:44 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
> This message cannot be displayed because of the way it is formatted. Ask the
sender to send it again using a different format or email program. text/plain
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | vanremog(at)aol.com |
All-
I have a friend who is looking for a tailwheel 6 or 7. You may contact him directly
RV6 or 7
Lycoming 360 engine, either carb or fuel injected
Constant speed prop
Panel/avionics can be basic
I would seriously consider a project if it is well along the completion path
650-504-4464
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Weiler <dcw(at)mnwing.org> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6/7 Wanted |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV6/7 Wanted |
| From: | James Blake <jimblake43(at)gmail.com> |
Doug, I have an rv6 , o-320, steam gauges.
James
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 10:04 AM, Doug Weiler wrote:
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GERALD FORREST <heart911(at)adelphia.net> |
I have an RV6A project for sale. I will not be able to complete it or
fly it if completed. Everything to complete the project ready to fly is
available. Instruments: Dynon D10, Apollo, MX20 GPS,GX60 radio, SL70
transponder, Truetrak 2 axis auto pilot, AOA, PS Intercom, CO monitor,
vision engine monitor with carb temp and a few others plus extras for
the firewall forward.
The major items needed for completion are riveting on the top forward
skin and adding the windscreen.
This is a RV6A slider with a 0-360 lycoming and a Hartzell constant
speed prop (both purchased new from Vans).
If interested or know of someone interested, please contact me.
Jerry Forrest
323-697-2044
heart911(at)adelphia.net
heart911(at)roadrunner.com
Location: So California
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com> |
| Subject: | ...a most mysterious RV... |
A quite unusual RVI believe it was an RV-6Avisited the Orcas Island Fly-In (WA)
this past weekendone about which I would like to know much more.
It is BY FAR the quietist RV I have EVER seen and just barely heardit was literally
whisper-quiet. Ive been told it had a 4 bladed propeller though I could not
confirm this to be true.
In fact, it is the quietist airplane on take off Ive ever heard in my life, other
than a couple of electrically powered ones.
Id be most grateful for any information on its owner, power plant, and propeller
anyone can post.
Fred
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ...a most mysterious RV... |
| From: | "Fred Klein" <fklein(at)orcasonline.com> |
A quite unusual RVI believe it was an RV-6Avisited the Orcas Island Fly-In (WA)
this past weekendone about which I would like to know much more.
It is BY FAR the quietist RV I have EVER seen and just barely heardit was literally
whisper-quiet. Ive been told it had a 4 bladed propeller though I could not
confirm this to be true.
In fact, it is the quietist airplane on take off Ive ever heard in my life, other
than a couple of electrically powered ones.
Id be most grateful for any information on its owner, power plant, and propeller
anyone can post.
Fred
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445862#445862
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <d-burton(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ...a most mysterious RV... |
It flew over my house and I too wondered if it had an alternate engine, a
muffler or what. It was amazingly quiet.
I usually can ID an RV flying by just by the sound. I would have had no
idea what this was if I hadn't seen it too. Hopefully someone knows the
plane and can tell us about it. It looked like it was headed in the
direction of Puyallup on its way home from Orcas.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Fred Klein" <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2015 10:46 AM
Subject: RV-List: ...a most mysterious RV...
>
> A quite unusual RVI believe it was an RV-6Avisited the Orcas Island
> Fly-In (WA) this past weekendone about which I would like to know much
> more.
>
> It is BY FAR the quietist RV I have EVER seen and just barely heardit was
> literally whisper-quiet. Ive been told it had a 4 bladed propeller though
> I could not confirm this to be true.
>
> In fact, it is the quietist airplane on take off Ive ever heard in my
> life, other than a couple of electrically powered ones.
>
> Id be most grateful for any information on its owner, power plant, and
> propeller anyone can post.
>
> Fred
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ...a most mysterious RV... |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 8/12/2015 12:46 PM, Fred Klein wrote:
>
> A quite unusual RVI believe it was an RV-6Avisited the Orcas Island Fly-In (WA)
this past weekendone about which I would like to know much more.
>
> It is BY FAR the quietist RV I have EVER seen and just barely heardit was literally
whisper-quiet. Ive been told it had a 4 bladed propeller though I could
not confirm this to be true.
>
> In fact, it is the quietist airplane on take off Ive ever heard in my life, other
than a couple of electrically powered ones.
>
> Id be most grateful for any information on its owner, power plant, and propeller
anyone can post.
>
> Fred
>
>
N number? Color? Paint scheme? Tipup or slider?
I know of some quiet alt engine RV's, but need at least a few more hints.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ...a most mysterious RV... |
| From: | Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com> |
N number: unk
Color: white/off whitemaybe some minimal striping
Tip up
non-standard cowl inlets
> On Aug 12, 2015, at 7:22 PM, Charlie England wrote:
>
>
> On 8/12/2015 12:46 PM, Fred Klein wrote:
>>
>> A quite unusual RVI believe it was an RV-6Avisited the Orcas Island Fly-In (WA)
this past weekendone about which I would like to know much more.
>>
>> It is BY FAR the quietist RV I have EVER seen and just barely heardit was literally
whisper-quiet. Ive been told it had a 4 bladed propeller though I could
not confirm this to be true.
>>
>> In fact, it is the quietist airplane on take off Ive ever heard in my life,
other than a couple of electrically powered ones.
>>
>> Id be most grateful for any information on its owner, power plant, and propeller
anyone can post.
>>
>> Fred
>>
>>
>>
>>
> N number? Color? Paint scheme? Tipup or slider?
>
> I know of some quiet alt engine RV's, but need at least a few more hints.
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ...a most mysterious RV... |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Sorry; can't help with so little info...
Doesn't match any of the ones I'm familiar with.
On 8/12/2015 9:31 PM, Fred Klein wrote:
>
> N number: unk
> Color: white/off whitemaybe some minimal striping
> Tip up
> non-standard cowl inlets
>
>> On Aug 12, 2015, at 7:22 PM, Charlie England wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 8/12/2015 12:46 PM, Fred Klein wrote:
>>>
>>> A quite unusual RVI believe it was an RV-6Avisited the Orcas Island Fly-In
(WA) this past weekendone about which I would like to know much more.
>>>
>>> It is BY FAR the quietist RV I have EVER seen and just barely heardit was literally
whisper-quiet. Ive been told it had a 4 bladed propeller though I could
not confirm this to be true.
>>>
>>> In fact, it is the quietist airplane on take off Ive ever heard in my life,
other than a couple of electrically powered ones.
>>>
>>> Id be most grateful for any information on its owner, power plant, and propeller
anyone can post.
>>>
>>> Fred
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> N number? Color? Paint scheme? Tipup or slider?
>>
>> I know of some quiet alt engine RV's, but need at least a few more hints.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ...a most mysterious RV... |
| From: | Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com> |
Charliesorry I cant give you more particulars
I want to emphasize that the RV Im talking about was NOT just a sort of quiet variantthis
puppy was WHISPER-QUIETalmost unbelievably soEXTREMELY LOW NOISE LEVELboth
for engine noise and propeller noise.
Fred
> On Aug 12, 2015, at 8:12 PM, Charlie England wrote:
>
>
> Sorry; can't help with so little info...
>
> Doesn't match any of the ones I'm familiar with.
>
> On 8/12/2015 9:31 PM, Fred Klein wrote:
>>
>> N number: unk
>> Color: white/off whitemaybe some minimal striping
>> Tip up
>> non-standard cowl inlets
>>
>>> On Aug 12, 2015, at 7:22 PM, Charlie England wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/12/2015 12:46 PM, Fred Klein wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A quite unusual RVI believe it was an RV-6Avisited the Orcas Island Fly-In
(WA) this past weekendone about which I would like to know much more.
>>>>
>>>> It is BY FAR the quietist RV I have EVER seen and just barely heardit was
literally whisper-quiet. Ive been told it had a 4 bladed propeller though I could
not confirm this to be true.
>>>>
>>>> In fact, it is the quietist airplane on take off Ive ever heard in my life,
other than a couple of electrically powered ones.
>>>>
>>>> Id be most grateful for any information on its owner, power plant, and propeller
anyone can post.
>>>>
>>>> Fred
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> N number? Color? Paint scheme? Tipup or slider?
>>>
>>> I know of some quiet alt engine RV's, but need at least a few more hints.
>>>
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV10-List: drag video |
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
Thanks to everyone who replied to my query ....
There appears to be a slew of drag-related videos done by Ascher H.
Shapiro .... MIT professor. Not what I'm looking for.
The video I'm searching for (as I remember it) had much simpler hardware
and mounted the test pieces vertically with the fan blowing
horizontally. As I remember it, the setup was far simpler than the
balance beam. The video may not be on Youtube .... my searches there
haven't found it ..... but on a website somewhere else. I'm just hoping
somebody recalls it ...... I want to duplicate it for the Boy Scouts
merit badge.
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Bell" <brucebell74(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Bonanza Strut Pump? |
Hi All,
I have a RV-4 but also a 1949 A-35 Bonanza. My strut pump just gave up
do to old age. 50 years plus. Any suggestions on a replacement. Thank
you very much.
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bonanza Strut Pump? |
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
Hi Bruce! I acquired a strut pump that wouldn't pump at all. I
replaced the hardened, dried out leather seals and now it works fine.
Linn
On 8/24/2015 4:13 PM, Bruce Bell wrote:
> Hi All,
> I have a RV-4 but also a 1949 A-35 Bonanza. My strut pump just gave up
> do to old age. 50 years plus. Any suggestions on a replacement. Thank
> you very much.
> Bruce Bell
> Lubbock, Texas
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Bell" <brucebell74(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bonanza Strut Pump? |
Thanks for the reply! My old one was a war surplus 24 volt job. I think
it was used to charge guns on a bomber. It did work off my car battery
with a jumper cable for years. I am going to check the wiring
connections. Thanks for the reply! Check Six, Bruce Bell
From: Linn Walters
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Bonanza Strut Pump?
Hi Bruce! I acquired a strut pump that wouldn't pump at all. I
replaced the hardened, dried out leather seals and now it works fine.
Linn
On 8/24/2015 4:13 PM, Bruce Bell wrote:
Hi All,
I have a RV-4 but also a 1949 A-35 Bonanza. My strut pump just gave up
do to old age. 50 years plus. Any suggestions on a replacement. Thank
you very much.
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Date: 08/24/15
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.edu> |
| Subject: | One more RV flying |
I havent posted to this list serve in quite a while but I thought Id drop a note
to the effect that another rare RV-3 took to the sky this weekend. Not my first
RV or airplane to build and fly, but the grin is still remarkably infectious.
She flies pretty much hands free except for the usual right rudder.
The usual CHTs on the right side are also a tad warm on climb out, but Ill wait
until break in is done to do too much sorting out. Its manageable if I dont keep
the power at full blast with the nose up.
Shes about 300lbs lighter than my -6 so handles noticeably lighter. The sight picture
appears somewhat higher so finding that 1 inch wheel to ground zone is
going to take a few landings. It may be that things are smaller which makes it
feel higher and Im over correcting.
The integrated Dynon Skyview system is pretty cool but the data density being presented
is intense while flying the airplane. That will take some getting used
to in spite of countless hours staring at it and pushing buttons.
AA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: One more RV flying |
Congratulations!
I have given serious thought to building a -3. I would like to hear more
about the differences and joy of flying it. I am using a GRT HX and am
entirely addicted to all the information without a big instrument scan.
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8
Livermore, CA
In a message dated 8/25/2015 1:12:15 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
wnorth(at)sdccd.edu writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North
I haven=99t posted to this list serve in quite a while but I though
t I=99d
drop a note to the effect that another rare RV-3 took to the sky this
weekend. Not my first RV or airplane to build and fly, but the grin is st
ill
remarkably infectious.
She flies pretty much hands free except for the usual right rudder.
The usual CHTs on the right side are also a tad warm on climb out, but I
=99
ll wait until break in is done to do too much sorting out. It=99s
manageable
if I don=99t keep the power at full blast with the nose up.
She=99s about 300lbs lighter than my -6 so handles noticeably light
er. The
sight picture appears somewhat higher so finding that 1 inch wheel to gro
und
zone is going to take a few landings. It may be that things are smaller
which makes it feel higher and I=99m over correcting.
The integrated Dynon Skyview system is pretty cool but the data density
being presented is intense while flying the airplane. That will take some
getting used to in spite of countless hours staring at it and pushing bu
ttons.
AA
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Pre buy inspection? |
I recently sold my RV-10 aircraft. As we all know an important aspect
of any aircraft ownership change is the pre-buy inspection.
In my case the pre-buy inspection was done on behalf of the buyer by Vic
Syracuse of Base Leg Aviation. Vic, as most of us know, is a multiple
repeat offending builder of several RVs and other experimental aircraft.
He is also a DAR, AI, CFII, and probably one of the Van=99s
families=99 most respected experts. He gave the keynote address
at this year=99s Van=99s Banquet at Air Venture.
Vic=99s inspection of my aircraft was through, and efficiently
completed. The result of his work was instrumental in the sale being
completed smoothly.
I believe the buyer is confident he is getting a good airplane and I am
confident he is in good hands as he becomes acclimated to his new
airplane.
So, if you are an RV shopper or seller I would certainly recommend Base
Leg Aviation for the pre-buy inspection or any of their other many
services.60
Dick Sipp
RV-4 sold
RV-10 sold
RV-12 60 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: One more RV flying |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
>
>I havent posted to this list serve in quite a while but I thought Id
>drop a note to the effect that another rare RV-3 took to the sky this
>weekend. Not my first RV or airplane to build and fly, but the grin is
>still remarkably infectious.
>
>She flies pretty much hands free except for the usual right rudder.
>
>The usual CHTs on the right side are also a tad warm on climb out, but
>Ill wait until break in is done to do too much sorting out. Its
>manageable if I dont keep the power at full blast with the nose up.
>
>Shes about 300lbs lighter than my -6 so handles noticeably lighter.
>The sight picture appears somewhat higher so finding that 1 inch wheel
>to ground zone is going to take a few landings. It may be that things
>are smaller which makes it feel higher and Im over correcting.
>
>The integrated Dynon Skyview system is pretty cool but the data density
>being presented is intense while flying the airplane. That will take
>some getting used to in spite of countless hours staring at it and
>pushing buttons.
>
>AA
>
>
Congrats on another leaving the nest. I hear the -3 flies the best; any truth
to the rumor?
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.edu> |
Well,
I havent flown any of the two digit versions but for now the -3 is most certainly
fun. Being 300 lbs lighter than my -6 is very noticeable. Im not inclined to
say its the best thus implying anyone elses is worse. I will say it is an intensely
personal kind of flying in part because of the obvious single place nature,
but also because it is so light and small.
AA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Alternative sources for MX20 and 400W databases |
Anyone out there know of any alternative sources?
Are we stuck with the expensive monopoly Jeppesen?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternative sources for MX20 and 400W databases |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 9/22/2015 7:09 AM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>
> Anyone out there know of any alternative sources?
>
> Are we stuck with the expensive monopoly Jeppesen?
>
There's a guy on the VAF forum that frequently offers updates for 430s,
if that helps.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New (Free) Aviation App |
| From: | "gbrasch" <gmbrasch(at)gmail.com> |
Thank you iPhone users for waiting out the IOS 9 upgrade while the Airport Courtesy
Car app was down. The app is back up for all users and the layout and look
of the app has been upgraded also. The listings continue to grow, currently
at over 1,520, and approaches 25,000 launches. Please continue to send in listings
I have missed or corrections that need to be made and I will get right on
them. And if you use and like the app, please consider a small donation to help
with expenses, even the tip that you leave on the lunch counter is appreciated.
There are PayPal links on the app, and my mailing address is also listed
within the app. Glenn
--------
Glenn Brasch
RV-9A Flying
1952 Piper Tri-Pacer
Medevac Helicopter Pilot (Ret)
Tucson, Arizona
Owner, "Airport Courtesy Cars" Smart Phone App.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447649#447649
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Holland" <skywatcher5(at)comcast.net> |
Lost Medical, flying quickbuild for sale, IFR capable, hagared Greeley
Colorado (GXY), email for details.
Mike Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | vanremog(at)aol.com |
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2014/06/toledo-lincoln-county-oregon.html
Van's suit that I hadn't heard about. Stupid pilot tricks 101.
Good luck with that...
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ace Pilot <acepilot(at)bloomer.net> |
Very sad indeed. I hope I don't sound callous, but that's what the
"Experimental" placard is for. It clearly states that the aircraft does
not conform to normal FAA standards, yet she chose to fly aboard the
aircraft. The survivor's claim that the aircraft was not required to
meet normal standards is kind of redundant...
On 10/21/2015 3:33 PM, vanremog(at)aol.com wrote:
> http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2014/06/toledo-lincoln-county-oregon.html
> Van's suit that I hadn't heard about. Stupid pilot tricks 101.
> Good luck with that...
> -GV
> *
>
>
> *
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LARRY C. BOWLES" <SCHYBOLT(at)austin.rr.com> |
I WILL ALSO RISK SOUNDING CALLOUS. THE GUY WAS WARNED THAT RTV WAS NOT
AN ACCEPTABLE SEALANT. IMHO VAN=99S NOR FLOSCAN HAS ANY
LIABILITY.
LARRY BOWLES
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
I would agree, but nothing keeps them from suing anyway. The only ones
that win are the lawyers, and Judges used to be lawyers. We are in deep
Kimchee and somebody is still filling the pot .....
Linn
On 10/21/2015 2:40 PM, LARRY C. BOWLES wrote:
> I WILL ALSO RISK SOUNDING CALLOUS. THE GUY WAS WARNED THAT RTV WAS
> NOT AN ACCEPTABLE SEALANT. IMHO VANS NOR FLOSCAN HAS ANY LIABILITY.
> LARRY BOWLES
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During November! |
Dear Listers,
Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation
and upgrade of the Email List and Fourm Services at Matronics. It's solely through
the Contributions of List members (you) that these Matronics Lists are possible.
You have probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows on any of the Matronics Lists or related web sites such as the Forums site http://forums.matronics.com , Wiki site http://wiki.matronics.com , or other related pages such as the List Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search , List Browse http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse , etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisements.
During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of
days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience
and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages.
The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all
of the bills associated with running these lists. YOUR personal Contribution
counts!
This year we have a really HUGE and TERRIFIC line up of free gifts to go along
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to choose from! There's something for everyone, to be sure. Most all of
these gifts have been provided by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll
find on the Matronics Lists and they have been either donated or provided
at substantially discounted rates.
This year, these generous members include:
Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com
Andy is a very generous guy and I encourage you to visit his web site. I would
like publicly to thank Andy for his generous support of the Lists again this
year!!
Please make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods including
using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods afford
you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying
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To make your Contribution, please visit the secure web site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral
support over the years!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
RV-4/RV-6/RV-8 Builder/Rebuilder/Pilot
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists |
Dear Listers,
There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums.
The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November
Fund Raiser.
Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade
of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution
too!
You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your generous support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution |
Today!
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way
of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Please take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)! As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least as valuable a building / entertainment tool as your typical magazine
subscription!
Assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the
Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your
Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about
how the Lists have helped you!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution
today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great
List services!! Pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying Contribution
too!
The Contribution Site is fast and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94551-0347
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | A List Contribution - It's Your Personal Squelch Button... |
There is an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages.
Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes a Contribution through
the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, their email address is automatically added
to this year's Contributor List and they instantly cease to receive further Fund
Raiser messages for the rest of the month! Its just that simple! :-)
I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support
the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware
and software that are required to run a List Site such as this one. It also goes
to pay for the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the huge electric
bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered
on. I run all of the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locally which
allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in
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with other Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site
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it on my Email List sites.
If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email
Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
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581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution
related message. For example, if someone replies to one of the messages,
when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum.
The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are anonymous
public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] Why I Have A Fund Raiser... |
Since the beginning, the Matronics List and Forum experience has been free from
advertising. I have been approached by fair number of vendors wanting to tap
into the large volume of activity across the various lists hosted here, but have
always flatly refused. Everywhere you go on the Internet these days, a user
is pummeled with flashing banners and videos and ads for crap that they don't
want. Yahoo, Google and that ilk are not "free". The user must constantly
endure their barrage of commercialism thrust into their face at an ever increasing
rate. Enough is enough, and the Lists at Matronics choose not to succumb
to that.
That being said, running a service of this size is not "free". It costs a lot
of money to maintain the hardware, pay for the electricity, air conditioning,
maintenance contracts, etc, etc. etc. I choose to hold a PBS-like fund raiser
each year during the month of November where I simply send out a short email
every other day asking the members to make a small contribution to support the
operation. That being said, that contribution is completely voluntary and non-compulsory.
Many members choose not to contribute and that's fine.
However, a very modest percentage of the members do choose to make a contribution
and it is that financial support that keeps the Lists running. And that's
it. To my way of thinking, it is a much more pleasant way of maintaining the
Lists and Forums. The other 11 months of the year, you don't see a single advertisement
or request for support. That's refreshing and that is a List and Forum
that I want to belong to. I think other people feel the same way.
Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support these
Lists?
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published in December! |
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a
list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
A quick reminder that November is the annual Matronics List Fund Raiser. The Lists
are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are covered solely
through your Contributions during this time of the year.
*Your* personal Contribution makes a difference and keeps all of the Matronics
Email Lists and Forums completely ad-free.
Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running for another
great year!
Use a credit card or your PayPal account here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by sending a personal check to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Contribution - Value of the List... |
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have
written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30
worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a
subscription to some magazine or even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least
that much to you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that amount and get
a well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to
think of it, you do... :-)
Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support these
Lists?
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far during
this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively through
YOUR generosity!!
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Lycoming Engine Fuel Flow Problem... |
Dear Listers,
I flew the RV-6 tonight that has a 1660 hour Lycoming O-360A1A with a Hartzell
CS prop. I flew it 7 hours over a 3-day period about a week and a half ago with
no issues whatsoever. Tonight, on take off, the EGT's all climbed into the
1450's right after take off and the CHT's were in the 400-450 range. The mixture
was full rich. The engine didn't seem to be underpowered or rough but the
fuel flow was about 9-10 GPH when it should have been in the 17-19GPH range.
On the downwind I tried fiddling with the mixture with no change in making it
richer. The mixture did make it leaner. I switched from the right to the left
fuel tanks with no change. I have two fuel flow transducers one feeding the
Skyview and the other feeding a Matronics FuelChec DX. Both were reading similarly
low fuel flows at full throttle - 9-10gph. I didn't think to flip on
the electric boost pump. But the flow definitely seemed restricted. The mixture
control seems to have normal throw in and out and isn't binding and does
lean the engine. I came in and landed with no issues.
I haven't pulled the cowling yet to have a look to see if its something obvious
with the mixture cable, but what are some thoughts on what this could be?
Mechanical Fuel Pump?
Something in the Carb?
Plugged fuel line?
??
Thanks for your feedback,
Matt
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 260+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 350+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Engine Fuel Flow Problem... |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
You are correct. The FF is too low and it is reflected on the EGT and
CHT. In fact, you undoubtedly were LOP, producing about 140-150hp. A bit
surprising if it in fact still has a carburetor.
IMHO, if EGT goes above 1350 on takeoff roll, it is cause to abort if
feasible. It should be between 1200 and 1300, assuming sea level vicinity.
Plugged fuel filter, failing mechanical pump diaphram, carb fuel inlet
needle valve stuck, carb fuel vent plugged are all potential causes. If
there is any seepage on the mech pump drain, the diaphram is bad and not
generating the fuel pressure needed. The carb may or maynot have an
inlet screen that could be partially plugged. If the data goes back far
enough I would download the log from the Skyview and look for when the
problem first occurred. That may help you isolate when/where it happened
and what changed.
On 11/17/2015 8:24 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> I flew the RV-6 tonight that has a 1660 hour Lycoming O-360A1A with a Hartzell
CS prop. I flew it 7 hours over a 3-day period about a week and a half ago
with no issues whatsoever. Tonight, on take off, the EGT's all climbed into the
1450's right after take off and the CHT's were in the 400-450 range. The mixture
was full rich. The engine didn't seem to be underpowered or rough but
the fuel flow was about 9-10 GPH when it should have been in the 17-19GPH range.
On the downwind I tried fiddling with the mixture with no change in making
it richer. The mixture did make it leaner. I switched from the right to the
left fuel tanks with no change. I have two fuel flow transducers one feeding
the Skyview and the other feeding a Matronics FuelChec DX. Both were reading
similarly low fuel flows at full throttle - 9-10gph. I didn't think to flip
on the electric boost pump. But the flow definitely seemed restricted. The mixture
control seems to have normal throw in and out a!
> nd isn't binding and does lean the engine. I came in and landed with no issues.
>
> I haven't pulled the cowling yet to have a look to see if its something obvious
with the mixture cable, but what are some thoughts on what this could be?
>
> Mechanical Fuel Pump?
>
> Something in the Carb?
>
> Plugged fuel line?
>
> ??
>
> Thanks for your feedback,
>
> Matt
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 260+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 350+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Engine Fuel Flow Problem... |
Sounds like you have a blockage in your fuel filters that just barely allows enough
fuel to flow.....
I had a similar issue with my AFP injected IO360B1F6. There is a small fuel inlet
filter that was clogged with fine black goo. Cleaned that and added a larger
capacity filter upstream that has a smaller micron rating than the inlet filter
- it is on my annual list now.
Cured the issue for me.
Glad you had enough fuel flow to continue flying and safely land. Throttling back
helped me - I didn't experience mine on take off though.....boost pump didn't
help me....
-----Original Message-----
>From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
>Sent: Nov 17, 2015 10:24 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com, lycoming-list(at)matronics.com, engines-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Lycoming Engine Fuel Flow Problem...
>
>
>Dear Listers,
>
>I flew the RV-6 tonight that has a 1660 hour Lycoming O-360A1A with a Hartzell
CS prop. I flew it 7 hours over a 3-day period about a week and a half ago with
no issues whatsoever. Tonight, on take off, the EGT's all climbed into the
1450's right after take off and the CHT's were in the 400-450 range. The mixture
was full rich. The engine didn't seem to be underpowered or rough but the
fuel flow was about 9-10 GPH when it should have been in the 17-19GPH range.
On the downwind I tried fiddling with the mixture with no change in making
it richer. The mixture did make it leaner. I switched from the right to the
left fuel tanks with no change. I have two fuel flow transducers one feeding
the Skyview and the other feeding a Matronics FuelChec DX. Both were reading
similarly low fuel flows at full throttle - 9-10gph. I didn't think to flip on
the electric boost pump. But the flow definitely seemed restricted. The mixture
control seems to have normal throw in and out a
!
> nd isn't binding and does lean the engine. I came in and landed with no issues.
>
>I haven't pulled the cowling yet to have a look to see if its something obvious
with the mixture cable, but what are some thoughts on what this could be?
>
>Mechanical Fuel Pump?
>
>Something in the Carb?
>
>Plugged fuel line?
>
>??
>
>Thanks for your feedback,
>
>Matt
>
>-
>Matt Dralle
>
>RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
>http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
>http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
>http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
>Status: 260+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>
>RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
>http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
>Status: 350+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>
>Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
>Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
>Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
>For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Engine Fuel Flow Problem... |
| From: | vanremog(at)aol.com |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Engine Fuel Flow Problem... |
| From: | Warren Brecheisen <n146wb(at)cfu.net> |
Admittedly, with all the readings on your monitoring giving abnormal numbers, it
appears to be be a problem with the fuel system, but I would first check to
see that the problem is real. Do you know what the engine pulled for static rpm,
wot on the ground before the problem showed up? If so, then I would check
the wot rpm now to see if you are getting full power. Did you fly long enough
to check your real fuel usage by refueling and comparing usage against what
you would normally expect? If you seem to get full rpm (power) and real fuel
usage is normal then there MIGHT be an electrical problem that's affecting your
monitoring system, like a bad ground.
Warren
> On Nov 18, 2015, at 12:48 AM, vanremog(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> switched from the right to the left fuel tanks with no change. I have two fuel
flow transducers one feeding the Skyview and the other feeding a Matronics
FuelChec DX. Both were reading similarly low fuel flows at full throttle - 9-10gph.
I didn't think to flip on the electric boost pump. But the flow definitely
seemed restricted. The mixture control seems to have normal throw in and
out a!
> nd isn't binding and does lean the engine. I came in and landed with no issues.
>
> I haven't pulled the cowling yet to have a look to see if its something obvious
with the mixture cable, but what are some thoughts on what this could be?
>
> Mechanical Fuel Pump?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Engine Fuel Flow Problem... |
| From: | Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net> |
I have a similar set up with an A1A. Your observations and deductions seem logical
to me. I would do the easiest thing first, and check the boost pump on to
see if it brings up the flow/pressure. This would point to the mechanical pump
as a problem.
By the way, it is my opinion that you should always take off with the boost pump
on. I also use a procedure by which I check the boost pump for pressure before
engine start, then start with only the mechanical pump. When the run up is
complete, Then I turn on the boost pump for take off. Again this is another
chance to catch a failed or failing mech pump before take off.
Hope this helps.
Denis Walsh
denis.walsh(at)comcast.net
> On 17Nov, 2015, at 20:24, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> I flew the RV-6 tonight that has a 1660 hour Lycoming O-360A1A with a Hartzell
CS prop. I flew it 7 hours over a 3-day period about a week and a half ago
with no issues whatsoever. Tonight, on take off, the EGT's all climbed into the
1450's right after take off and the CHT's were in the 400-450 range. The mixture
was full rich. The engine didn't seem to be underpowered or rough but
the fuel flow was about 9-10 GPH when it should have been in the 17-19GPH range.
On the downwind I tried fiddling with the mixture with no change in making
it richer. The mixture did make it leaner. I switched from the right to the
left fuel tanks with no change. I have two fuel flow transducers one feeding
the Skyview and the other feeding a Matronics FuelChec DX. Both were reading
similarly low fuel flows at full throttle - 9-10gph. I didn't think to flip
on the electric boost pump. But the flow definitely seemed restricted. The mixture
control seems to have normal throw in and out a!
> nd isn't binding and does lean the engine. I came in and landed with no issues.
>
> I haven't pulled the cowling yet to have a look to see if its something obvious
with the mixture cable, but what are some thoughts on what this could be?
>
> Mechanical Fuel Pump?
>
> Something in the Carb?
>
> Plugged fuel line?
>
> ??
>
> Thanks for your feedback,
>
> Matt
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 260+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 350+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What's Your Contribution Used For? |
Dear Listers,
You might have wondered at some point, "What's my Contribution used for?" Here
are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables... It provides
for the expensive, commercial-grade Internet connection used on the List.
It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest
performance possible for List services such as the Archive Search Engine,
List Browser, and the Web Forums. It pays for the over 23 years of on-line
archive data always available for instant search and access. And, it offsets
the many hours spent writing, developing, and maintaining the custom applications
that power these List Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, Forums,
and Wiki.
But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your
peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from moderation,
censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer viruses.
It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables all these aspects of Matronics List
services. Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its one of
the best investments you can make in your Sport!
List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Engine Fuel Flow Problem... |
Denis,
I use your method for take-offs also!
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
>From: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net>
>Sent: Nov 18, 2015 11:37 AM
>To: "rv list matronics.com"
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Lycoming Engine Fuel Flow Problem...
>
>
>I have a similar set up with an A1A. Your observations and deductions seem logical
to me. I would do the easiest thing first, and check the boost pump on
to see if it brings up the flow/pressure. This would point to the mechanical
pump as a problem.
>
>By the way, it is my opinion that you should always take off with the boost pump
on. I also use a procedure by which I check the boost pump for pressure before
engine start, then start with only the mechanical pump. When the run up
is complete, Then I turn on the boost pump for take off. Again this is another
chance to catch a failed or failing mech pump before take off.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>
>Denis Walsh
>denis.walsh(at)comcast.net
>
>
>> On 17Nov, 2015, at 20:24, Matt Dralle wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Listers,
>>
>> I flew the RV-6 tonight that has a 1660 hour Lycoming O-360A1A with a Hartzell
CS prop. I flew it 7 hours over a 3-day period about a week and a half ago
with no issues whatsoever. Tonight, on take off, the EGT's all climbed into
the 1450's right after take off and the CHT's were in the 400-450 range. The
mixture was full rich. The engine didn't seem to be underpowered or rough but
the fuel flow was about 9-10 GPH when it should have been in the 17-19GPH range.
On the downwind I tried fiddling with the mixture with no change in making
it richer. The mixture did make it leaner. I switched from the right to the
left fuel tanks with no change. I have two fuel flow transducers one feeding
the Skyview and the other feeding a Matronics FuelChec DX. Both were reading
similarly low fuel flows at full throttle - 9-10gph. I didn't think to flip
on the electric boost pump. But the flow definitely seemed restricted. The
mixture control seems to have normal throw in and out
!
> a!
>> nd isn't binding and does lean the engine. I came in and landed with no issues.
>>
>> I haven't pulled the cowling yet to have a look to see if its something obvious
with the mixture cable, but what are some thoughts on what this could be?
>>
>> Mechanical Fuel Pump?
>>
>> Something in the Carb?
>>
>> Plugged fuel line?
>>
>> ??
>>
>> Thanks for your feedback,
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> -
>> Matt Dralle
>>
>> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
>> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
>> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
>> Status: 260+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>>
>> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
>> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
>> Status: 350+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>>
>> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
>> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
>> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
>> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Engine Fuel Flow Problem... |
I switched tanks with no change in flow. So it would seem to not to be related
to the fuel tanks or their plumbing specifically. I'm anxious to dig in and
figure out what's going on...
Matt
At 10:48 PM 11/17/2015 Tuesday, you wrote:
>Have you cleaned all your screens?
>Did you switch tanks?
>Did you check your vents?
>-GV
>Sent from a galaxy far far away...
>
>
>Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>
>Dear Listers,
>
>I flew the RV-6 tonight that has a 1660 hour Lycoming O-360A1A with a Hartzell
CS prop. I flew it 7 hours over a 3-day period about a week and a half ago with
no issues whatsoever. Tonight, on take off, the EGT's all climbed into the
1450's right after take off and the CHT's were in the 400-450 range. The mixture
was full rich. The engine didn't seem to be underpowered or rough but the
fuel flow was about 9-10 GPH when it should have been in the 17-19GPH range.
On the downwind I tried fiddling with the mixture with no change in making
it richer. The mixture did make it leaner. I switched from the right to the
left fuel tanks with no change. I have two fuel flow transducers one feeding
the Skyview and the other feeding a Matronics FuelChec DX. Both were reading
similarly low fuel flows at full throttle - 9-10gph. I didn't think to flip on
the electric boost pump. But the flow definitely seemed restricted. The mixture
control seems to have normal throw in and out a
!
>nd isn't binding and does lean the engine. I came in and landed with no issues.
>
>I haven't pulled the cowling yet to have a look to see if its something obvious
with the mixture cable, but what are some thoughts on what this could be?
>
>Mechanical Fuel Pump?
>
>Something in the Carb?
>
>Plugged fuel line?
>
>??
>
>Thanks for your feedback,
>
>Matt
>
>-
>Matt Dralle
>
>RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
>http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
>http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
>http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
>Status: 260+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>
>RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
>http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
>Status: 350+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>
>Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
>Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
>Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
>For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Engine Fuel Flow Problem... |
| From: | Tim Lewis <TimRVator(at)comcast.net> |
After ruling out visible leakage and ensuring the mixture cable gives
full mixture range motion (to the stop on the carb), I think I'd
disconnect the fuel hose right before the carb and use the boost pump to
see the max available fuel flow rate to the carb. That could give you
some insight into blockages prior to the carb. This test (fuel flow
volume) is described in the old FAA Experimental Aircraft Flight Test AC
on page 23 (AC 90-89A, available at
https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentID/23127).
FAA recommends seeking 125% of normal max fuel flow (and they tell you
how to estimate that value).
VR
Tim
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
A&P
RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
RV-10 N31TD -- 650 hrs
Matt Dralle wrote on 11/17/2015 10:24 PM:
>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> I flew the RV-6 tonight that has a 1660 hour Lycoming O-360A1A with a Hartzell
CS prop. I flew it 7 hours over a 3-day period about a week and a half ago
with no issues whatsoever. Tonight, on take off, the EGT's all climbed into the
1450's right after take off and the CHT's were in the 400-450 range. The mixture
was full rich. The engine didn't seem to be underpowered or rough but
the fuel flow was about 9-10 GPH when it should have been in the 17-19GPH range.
On the downwind I tried fiddling with the mixture with no change in making
it richer. The mixture did make it leaner. I switched from the right to the
left fuel tanks with no change. I have two fuel flow transducers one feeding
the Skyview and the other feeding a Matronics FuelChec DX. Both were reading
similarly low fuel flows at full throttle - 9-10gph. I didn't think to flip
on the electric boost pump. But the flow definitely seemed restricted. The mixture
control seems to have normal throw in and out a!
> nd isn't binding and does lean the engine. I came in and landed with no issues.
>
> I haven't pulled the cowling yet to have a look to see if its something obvious
with the mixture cable, but what are some thoughts on what this could be?
>
> Mechanical Fuel Pump?
>
> Something in the Carb?
>
> Plugged fuel line?
>
> ??
>
> Thanks for your feedback,
>
> Matt
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 260+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 350+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution
today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great
List services!! Pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying Contribution
too!
The Contribution Site is fast and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <cheathco(at)cox.net> |
When I first got Tweetybird 11 yrs ago I experimented with various best gli
de speeds, prety much thought 80mph best. I have flight review coming up, n
eed to know if that is number most use ? Thanks Charlie
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Best gliud, 6A |
| From: | Kyle Boatright <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
The CAFE foundation tested a 6a about 15 years ago and determined a best gli
de of right at 100 mph.
That is what I use.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 21, 2015, at 5:23 PM, wrote:
>
> When I first got Tweetybird 11 yrs ago I experimented with various best gl
ide speeds, prety much thought 80mph best. I have flight review coming up, n
eed to know if that is number most use ? Thanks Charlie
> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer
protected by Avast.
> www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6 Flyer <RV6_Flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Best gliud, 6A |
On my RV-6, Best Glide and Best Rate of climb are the same. 78 KIAS is wh
at works best in my RV-6.
On 11-21-2015 5:23 PM, cheathco(at)cox.net wrote:
When I first got Tweetybird 11 yrs ago I experimented with various best gli
de speeds, prety much thought 80mph best. I have flight review coming up, n
eed to know if that is number most use ? Thanks Charlie
[https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/logo-avast-v1.png] This email has been sent from a virus-free computer pro
tected by Avast.
www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <cheathco(at)cox.net> |
something I have wondered about but never asked. My plane builder listed th
e GW at 1650, empty is 1080, but I had seen other ones at 1750. I have been
told the 6a has safely carried up to 1850, even tho GW at 1750. I once unk
nowingly carried a psg who later told me he weighed 235lb, didn't look it,
but landed much harder that usual. I usually carry 200 lb psr max with full
fuel and min baggage. Over that I usually carry 3/4 to 1/2 fuel.
as a mater of fact I have not had anyone with me over 150 lb for past 2 yea
rs.. I have weighed 185 for several years. And at 75 that is not easy to do
=2E BTW, knowing that Art xxxx racing in cherokee 140 used to carry his
psgr in back seat, so when I did my first race I had 80 lb of batteries in
bagage which gave me extra 5mph. Hope to get to bottom of this gross thing
=2E Yhanks, Charlie
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | vanremog(at)aol.com |
I established and tested for 1900 lb utility gross weight with thirty hours
on the Hobbs under the following condition, because I wanted to ensure ade
quate margin for cross country flights loaded up with baggage.
I weighed 185 lb at the time and my 241 lb buddy was along in case he neede
d to grab one of the two 50 lb bags of sand out of the baggage area and hol
d it in his lap. We worked our way up to this point slowly and performed a
ll of our stalls and landings. I have an O-360-A1A and constant speed prop
.
The plane handled fine throughout the flight but I carried a little more sp
eed on landing just in case. I'm not sure I would fly it to empty tanks th
ough. An arm of 75.73 is right at 27% MAC. YMMV.
Aircraft at Gross Weight
Weight
Arm
Moment
Basic Aircraft
1151
69.02
79438
38 gal Fuel in Wing Tanks
228
70.00
15960
Pilot and Passenger
421
87.40
36795.4
Baggage Area
100
117.00
11700
TOTAL
1900
75.73
143893.4
-GV
-----Original Message-----
From: cheathco <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Sent: Sat, Nov 21, 2015 3:47 pm
Subject: RV-List: 6A gross wt
something I have wondered about but never asked. Myplane builder listed the
GW at 1650, empty is 1080, but I had seen otherones at 1750. I have been t
old the 6a has safely carried up to 1850, even tho GWat 1750. I once unknow
ingly carried a psg who later told me he weighed 235lb,didn=C2=92t look it,
but landed much harder that usual. I usually carry 200 lb psrmax with full
fuel and min baggage. Over that I usually carry 3/4 to 1/2fuel.
as a mater of fact I have not had anyone with meover 150 lb for past 2 year
s.. I have weighed 185 for several years. And at 75that is not easy to do.
BTW, knowing that Art xxxx racingin cherokee 140 used to carry his psgr
in back seat, so when I did my first raceI had 80 lb of batteries in bagage
which gave me extra 5mph. Hope to get tobottom of this gross thing. Yhank
s, Charlie
This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast.
www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
As I understand it, you are pretty much stuck with what the original
builder asked for. I don't know what a DAR would have to do to get you a
changed gross wt.
On 11/21/2015 4:45 PM, cheathco(at)cox.net wrote:
> something I have wondered about but never asked. My plane builder
> listed the GW at 1650, empty is 1080, but I had seen other ones at
> 1750. I have been told the 6a has safely carried up to 1850, even tho
> GW at 1750. I once unknowingly carried a psg who later told me he
> weighed 235lb, didnt look it, but landed much harder that usual. I
> usually carry 200 lb psr max with full fuel and min baggage. Over
> that I usually carry 3/4 to 1/2 fuel.
> as a mater of fact I have not had anyone with me over 150 lb for past
> 2 years.. I have weighed 185 for several years. And at 75 that is not
> easy to do. Smile emoticon BTW, knowing that Art xxxx racing in
> cherokee 140 used to carry his psgr in back seat, so when I did my
> first race I had 80 lb of batteries in bagage which gave me extra
> 5mph. Hope to get to bottom of this gross thing. Yhanks, Charlie
>
> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast.
> www.avast.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Unless there has been a very recent change in the regs, the owner can
raise gross weight by treating it as a major modification. Depending on
which version of operating limitations are on the plane, it could be as
simple as logging a return to phase one, flying 5 hrs of tests at the
increased gross weight, and logging the successful results with a return
to phase two (normal operation). Newer versions require notifying the
local FSDO & getting their approval for the proposed test area (which
might well be the same as the original test area).
Not saying anyone should; just that it can be done. As mentioned, there
are lots of 6's & 6A's with higher than 1600 lb gross weights in their
oplims.
Tangentially related to the subject of best glide, Van once wrote an
article about best climb rate in the short wing RV's. He indicated that
due to increased induced drag of the low aspect ratio wing at low
airspeeds, the 4/6/7/8 would climb at almost identical rates at anywhere
between around 90 mph & 130 mph (rough numbers from my flaky memory).
His suggestion was for normal (not obstacle clearance) climb to be at
around 130 mph because the rate would be the same but a lot more ground
could be covered. I've never bothered to test it, but it seems
reasonable that a slightly higher speed might extend the *range* of a
glide, as well.
Charlie
On 11/21/2015 8:33 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> As I understand it, you are pretty much stuck with what the original
> builder asked for. I don't know what a DAR would have to do to get you
> a changed gross wt.
>
> On 11/21/2015 4:45 PM, cheathco(at)cox.net wrote:
>> something I have wondered about but never asked. My plane builder
>> listed the GW at 1650, empty is 1080, but I had seen other ones at
>> 1750. I have been told the 6a has safely carried up to 1850, even tho
>> GW at 1750. I once unknowingly carried a psg who later told me he
>> weighed 235lb, didnt look it, but landed much harder that usual. I
>> usually carry 200 lb psr max with full fuel and min baggage. Over
>> that I usually carry 3/4 to 1/2 fuel.
>> as a mater of fact I have not had anyone with me over 150 lb for past
>> 2 years.. I have weighed 185 for several years. And at 75 that is not
>> easy to do. Smile emoticon BTW, knowing that Art xxxx racing in
>> cherokee 140 used to carry his psgr in back seat, so when I did my
>> first race I had 80 lb of batteries in bagage which gave me extra
>> 5mph. Hope to get to bottom of this gross thing. Yhanks, Charlie
>>
>> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by
>> Avast.
>> www.avast.com
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren Brecheisen" <n146wb(at)cfu.net> |
I was concerned about the 1600 lb gross weight that Van's had on my -6. I
knew that the limit was 1650 on the 6A. I worked with my DAR when I was
doing the paperwork and we called Van's to find out if they would allow 1650
to be used on the 6. They, in essence, approved it so the DAR allowed me to
use that figure. This was in 2007, so I don't know if they would do that
today. Bottom line, my "certified" gross weight is set at 1650 which allows
my wife and I to fly with full tanks and still have 50lbs for baggage.
Warren
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: 6A gross wt
Unless there has been a very recent change in the regs, the owner can raise
gross weight by treating it as a major modification. Depending on which
version of operating limitations are on the plane, it could be as simple as
logging a return to phase one, flying 5 hrs of tests at the increased gross
weight, and logging the successful results with a return to phase two
(normal operation). Newer versions require notifying the local FSDO &
getting their approval for the proposed test area (which might well be the
same as the original test area).
Not saying anyone should; just that it can be done. As mentioned, there are
lots of 6's & 6A's with higher than 1600 lb gross weights in their oplims.
Tangentially related to the subject of best glide, Van once wrote an
article about best climb rate in the short wing RV's. He indicated that due
to increased induced drag of the low aspect ratio wing at low airspeeds, the
4/6/7/8 would climb at almost identical rates at anywhere between around 90
mph & 130 mph (rough numbers from my flaky memory).
His suggestion was for normal (not obstacle clearance) climb to be at around
130 mph because the rate would be the same but a lot more ground could be
covered. I've never bothered to test it, but it seems reasonable that a
slightly higher speed might extend the *range* of a glide, as well.
Charlie
On 11/21/2015 8:33 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> As I understand it, you are pretty much stuck with what the original
> builder asked for. I don't know what a DAR would have to do to get you
> a changed gross wt.
>
> On 11/21/2015 4:45 PM, cheathco(at)cox.net wrote:
>> something I have wondered about but never asked. My plane builder
>> listed the GW at 1650, empty is 1080, but I had seen other ones at
>> 1750. I have been told the 6a has safely carried up to 1850, even tho
>> GW at 1750. I once unknowingly carried a psg who later told me he
>> weighed 235lb, didn't look it, but landed much harder that usual. I
>> usually carry 200 lb psr max with full fuel and min baggage. Over
>> that I usually carry 3/4 to 1/2 fuel.
>> as a mater of fact I have not had anyone with me over 150 lb for past
>> 2 years.. I have weighed 185 for several years. And at 75 that is not
>> easy to do. Smile emoticon BTW, knowing that Art xxxx racing in
>> cherokee 140 used to carry his psgr in back seat, so when I did my
>> first race I had 80 lb of batteries in bagage which gave me extra
>> 5mph. Hope to get to bottom of this gross thing. Yhanks, Charlie
>>
>> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by
>> Avast.
>> www.avast.com
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLE <rv6awingman(at)gmail.com> |
I've been flying my RV-6A for 5 years now and the gross wt is above 1600,
approved when inspected. I re-calculated what the GW limit would be in
the Utility category, based on the aerobatic wt published by Vans of 1350#
if my memory serves. Vans has commented that consideration to the design
limit of the gear should be considered. So when operating above 1600# I'm
very "gentle" with my landings, roll out and taxi. Always keep the nose
wheel up on landing and roll out. Just saying.........
Marty N826ME
From: <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV-List: 6A gross wt
something I have wondered about but never asked. My plane builder listed th
e GW at 1650, empty is 1080, but I had seen other ones at 1750. I have been
told the 6a has safely carried up to 1850, even tho GW at 1750. I once unk
nowingly carried a psg who later told me he weighed 235lb, didn't look it,
but landed much harder that usual. I usually carry 200 lb psr max with full
fuel and min baggage. Over that I usually carry 3/4 to 1/2 fuel.
as a mater of fact I have not had anyone with me over 150 lb for past 2 yea
rs.. I have weighed 185 for several years. And at 75 that is not easy to do
=2E BTW, knowing that Art xxxx racing in cherokee 140 used to carry his
psgr in back seat, so when I did my first race I had 80 lb of batteries in
bagage which gave me extra 5mph. Hope to get to bottom of this gross thing
=2E Yhanks, Charlie
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
I believe several folks with various RVs have calculated and gotten
approved separate aerobatic, utility and normal gross wt limits. Vans
tends to be very conservative with gross wt, especially because he wants
the book figures to allow use of his farm strip at something like 600 ft.
I don't think there is any need for input from Vans or other kit
manufacturer for a DAR granting a higher gross wt if there is good logic
behind that higher wt and it keeps the c.g. within an acceptable envelope.
On 11/22/2015 6:37 AM, MLE wrote:
> I've been flying my RV-6A for 5 years now and the gross wt is above
> 1600, approved when inspected. I re-calculated what the GW limit
> would be in the Utility category, based on the aerobatic wt published
> by Vans of 1350# if my memory serves. Vans has commented that
> consideration to the design limit of the gear should be considered.
> So when operating above 1600# I'm very "gentle" with my landings, roll
> out and taxi. Always keep the nose wheel up on landing and roll out.
> Just saying.........
> Marty N826ME
>
> From: <cheathco(at)cox.net <mailto:cheathco(at)cox.net>>
> Subject: RV-List: 6A gross wt
>
>
> something I have wondered about but never asked. My plane builder
> listed th
> e GW at 1650, empty is 1080, but I had seen other ones at 1750. I have
> been
> told the 6a has safely carried up to 1850, even tho GW at 1750. I
> once unk
> nowingly carried a psg who later told me he weighed 235lb, didn't look it,
> but landed much harder that usual. I usually carry 200 lb psr max with
> full
> fuel and min baggage. Over that I usually carry 3/4 to 1/2 fuel.
> as a mater of fact I have not had anyone with me over 150 lb for past
> 2 yea
> rs.. I have weighed 185 for several years. And at 75 that is not easy
> to do
> =2E BTW, knowing that Art xxxx racing in cherokee 140 used to carry his
> psgr in back seat, so when I did my first race I had 80 lb of batteries in
> bagage which gave me extra 5mph. Hope to get to bottom of this gross
> thing
> =2E Yhanks, Charlie
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Reuven <Pilots2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Best gliud, 6A |
Given the wild variation in RV configurations, I.e. engine / prop combinatio
ns, EW / MGW, etc. and the fact the CFI giving the BFR has no clue because t
here is no "official" published information, the best glide speed is whatev
er you tell your CFI. Have fun with the BFR.
Reuven CFII.
Sent from my I doohickey
> On Nov 21, 2015, at 3:12 PM, RV6 Flyer wrote:
>
> On my RV-6, Best Glide and Best Rate of climb are the same. 78 KIAS is w
hat works best in my RV-6.
>
>
>
>> On 11-21-2015 5:23 PM, cheathco(at)cox.net wrote:
>> When I first got Tweetybird 11 yrs ago I experimented with various best g
lide speeds, prety much thought 80mph best. I have flight review coming up, n
eed to know if that is number most use ? Thanks Charlie
>> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Av
ast.
>> www.avast.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren Brecheisen" <n146wb(at)cfu.net> |
I did a fair amount of glide testing on my 6 (engine idling, full
fuel-1289lbs). After a good deal of data analysis and curve fitting, my
data indicated the speed for minimum descent rate is 67 knots and for
maximum range is 89 knots. In order to keep things simple, I use a
figure of merit of 85 knots.
Warren
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Reuven
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2015 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Best gliud, 6A
Given the wild variation in RV configurations, I.e. engine / prop
combinations, EW / MGW, etc. and the fact the CFI giving the BFR has no
clue because there is no "official" published information, the best
glide speed is whatever you tell your CFI. Have fun with the BFR.
Reuven CFII.
Sent from my I doohickey
On Nov 21, 2015, at 3:12 PM, RV6 Flyer wrote:
On my RV-6, Best Glide and Best Rate of climb are the same. 78 KIAS is
what works best in my RV-6.
On 11-21-2015 5:23 PM, cheathco(at)cox.net
wrote:
When I first got Tweetybird 11 yrs ago I experimented with various best
glide speeds, prety much thought 80mph best. I have flight review coming
up, need to know if that is number most use ? Thanks Charlie
This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast.
www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution |
Today!
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way
of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Please take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)! As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least as valuable a building / entertainment tool as your typical magazine
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Assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the
Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your
Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
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I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
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Best regards,
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Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jhnstniii <jhnstniii(at)aol.com> |
In my RV-6A at my all-up cross-country weight of 1800 lbs, and 2550 rpm (pr
op pulled back a bit due to rpm prop restriction), with a 180 hp 0-360-A1A
and Hartzell blended airfoil prop, I find that my best rate of climb is abo
ut 120 knots. I find that the short, broad cord wing has considerable indu
ced drag if I try to fly slower (higher AOA) when I am heavy. Plus any tim
e the temps are warm I need that kind of airspeed for engine cooling in a p
rolonged climb to cruise altitude. Depending on air temperature, this resu
lts in a rate of climb of anywhere from 600 fpm on a 90 degree day to about
1300 feet per minute on a 40 degree day. CHTs stay in the green, but when
I am IFR, obstacle clearance must be paid attention to. 600 fpm at 120 k
nots is only 300 feet per nautical mile.
LeRoy Johnston RV-6A Esperanza, 970 hours.
-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 21, 2015 11:17 pm
Subject: Re: RV-List: 6A gross wt
Unless there has been a very recent change in the regs, the owner can
raise gross weight by treating it as a major modification. Depending on
which version of operating limitations are on the plane, it could be as
simple as logging a return to phase one, flying 5 hrs of tests at the
increased gross weight, and logging the successful results with a return
to phase two (normal operation). Newer versions require notifying the
local FSDO & getting their approval for the proposed test area (which
might well be the same as the original test area).
Not saying anyone should; just that it can be done. As mentioned, there
are lots of 6's & 6A's with higher than 1600 lb gross weights in their
oplims.
Tangentially related to the subject of best glide, Van once wrote an
article about best climb rate in the short wing RV's. He indicated that
due to increased induced drag of the low aspect ratio wing at low
airspeeds, the 4/6/7/8 would climb at almost identical rates at anywhere
between around 90 mph & 130 mph (rough numbers from my flaky memory).
His suggestion was for normal (not obstacle clearance) climb to be at
around 130 mph because the rate would be the same but a lot more ground
could be covered. I've never bothered to test it, but it seems
reasonable that a slightly higher speed might extend the *range* of a
glide, as well.
Charlie
On 11/21/2015 8:33 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> As I understand it, you are pretty much stuck with what the original
> builder asked for. I don't know what a DAR would have to do to get you
> a changed gross wt.
>
> On 11/21/2015 4:45 PM, cheathco(at)cox.net wrote:
>> something I have wondered about but never asked. My plane builder
>> listed the GW at 1650, empty is 1080, but I had seen other ones at
>> 1750. I have been told the 6a has safely carried up to 1850, even tho
>> GW at 1750. I once unknowingly carried a psg who later told me he
>> weighed 235lb, didn=99t look it, but landed much harder that usual
. I
>> usually carry 200 lb psr max with full fuel and min baggage. Over
>> that I usually carry 3/4 to 1/2 fuel.
>> as a mater of fact I have not had anyone with me over 150 lb for past
>> 2 years.. I have weighed 185 for several years. And at 75 that is not
>> easy to do. Smile emoticon BTW, knowing that Art xxxx racing in
>> cherokee 140 used to carry his psgr in back seat, so when I did my
>> first race I had 80 lb of batteries in bagage which gave me extra
>> 5mph. Hope to get to bottom of this gross thing. Yhanks, Charlie
>>
>> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by
>> Avast.
>> www.avast.com
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
What determines the gross weight of a homebuilt aircraft?
Here is what EAA has to say:
http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-communities-and-interests/homebuilt-aircraft-and-homebuilt-aircraft-kits/frequently-asked-questions/gross-weight
Copy/Paste from the above link:
"From a regulatory standpoint, the builder of a homebuilt is in fact the "manufacturer"
of that individual aircraft, and is allowed to set the weight limits,
including gross weight, anyplace he/she cares to."
________________________________________
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com> on
behalf of Charlie England
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2015 4:14 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: 6A gross wt
Unless there has been a very recent change in the regs, the owner can
raise gross weight by treating it as a major modification. Depending on
which version of operating limitations are on the plane, it could be as
simple as logging a return to phase one, flying 5 hrs of tests at the
increased gross weight, and logging the successful results with a return
to phase two (normal operation). Newer versions require notifying the
local FSDO & getting their approval for the proposed test area (which
might well be the same as the original test area).
Not saying anyone should; just that it can be done. As mentioned, there
are lots of 6's & 6A's with higher than 1600 lb gross weights in their
oplims.
Tangentially related to the subject of best glide, Van once wrote an
article about best climb rate in the short wing RV's. He indicated that
due to increased induced drag of the low aspect ratio wing at low
airspeeds, the 4/6/7/8 would climb at almost identical rates at anywhere
between around 90 mph & 130 mph (rough numbers from my flaky memory).
His suggestion was for normal (not obstacle clearance) climb to be at
around 130 mph because the rate would be the same but a lot more ground
could be covered. I've never bothered to test it, but it seems
reasonable that a slightly higher speed might extend the *range* of a
glide, as well.
Charlie
On 11/21/2015 8:33 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> As I understand it, you are pretty much stuck with what the original
> builder asked for. I don't know what a DAR would have to do to get you
> a changed gross wt.
>
> On 11/21/2015 4:45 PM, cheathco(at)cox.net wrote:
>> something I have wondered about but never asked. My plane builder
>> listed the GW at 1650, empty is 1080, but I had seen other ones at
>> 1750. I have been told the 6a has safely carried up to 1850, even tho
>> GW at 1750. I once unknowingly carried a psg who later told me he
>> weighed 235lb, didnt look it, but landed much harder that usual. I
>> usually carry 200 lb psr max with full fuel and min baggage. Over
>> that I usually carry 3/4 to 1/2 fuel.
>> as a mater of fact I have not had anyone with me over 150 lb for past
>> 2 years.. I have weighed 185 for several years. And at 75 that is not
>> easy to do. Smile emoticon BTW, knowing that Art xxxx racing in
>> cherokee 140 used to carry his psgr in back seat, so when I did my
>> first race I had 80 lb of batteries in bagage which gave me extra
>> 5mph. Hope to get to bottom of this gross thing. Yhanks, Charlie
>>
>> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by
>> Avast.
>> www.avast.com
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | vanremog(at)aol.com |
Correct and it behooves the manufacturer to have actually tested the claime
d weight condition and found it to be reasonable. I believe that the origi
nal RV-6A airframe is pretty robust. The 6 spar is good for 11g and the ge
ar is good for 6g at the Van's claimed gross weight. IMO probably the weak
est part of the airframe short of the landing gear is the horizontal stab,
so don't go doing high g pullups or outside loops.
The aircraft at any weight could be prone to failure of any element if prop
er precautions are not taken (see Ralph Nader's "Unsafe and any Speed" and
the story of failure of Van's own RV-8 at the hands of a potential buyer).
Safety margin needs to be considered and a reasonable level of care taken
in all flying endeavors.
(he says, as if preaching to the choir...)
-GV
-----Original Message-----
From: RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 22, 2015 1:51 pm
Subject: Re: RV-List: 6A gross wt
What determines the gross weight of a homebuilt aircraft?
Here is what EAA has to say:
http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-communities-and-interests/homebuilt-airc
raft-and-homebuilt-aircraft-kits/frequently-asked-questions/gross-weight
Copy/Paste from the above link:
"From a regulatory standpoint, the builder of a homebuilt is in fact the "m
anufacturer" of that individual aircraft, and is allowed to set the weight
limits, including gross weight, anyplace he/she cares to."
________________________________________
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.co
m> on behalf of Charlie England
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2015 4:14 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: 6A gross wt
Unless there has been a very recent change in the regs, the owner can
raise gross weight by treating it as a major modification. Depending on
which version of operating limitations are on the plane, it could be as
simple as logging a return to phase one, flying 5 hrs of tests at the
increased gross weight, and logging the successful results with a return
to phase two (normal operation). Newer versions require notifying the
local FSDO & getting their approval for the proposed test area (which
might well be the same as the original test area).
Not saying anyone should; just that it can be done. As mentioned, there
are lots of 6's & 6A's with higher than 1600 lb gross weights in their
oplims.
Tangentially related to the subject of best glide, Van once wrote an
article about best climb rate in the short wing RV's. He indicated that
due to increased induced drag of the low aspect ratio wing at low
airspeeds, the 4/6/7/8 would climb at almost identical rates at anywhere
between around 90 mph & 130 mph (rough numbers from my flaky memory).
His suggestion was for normal (not obstacle clearance) climb to be at
around 130 mph because the rate would be the same but a lot more ground
could be covered. I've never bothered to test it, but it seems
reasonable that a slightly higher speed might extend the *range* of a
glide, as well.
Charlie
On 11/21/2015 8:33 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> As I understand it, you are pretty much stuck with what the original
> builder asked for. I don't know what a DAR would have to do to get you
> a changed gross wt.
>
> On 11/21/2015 4:45 PM, cheathco(at)cox.net wrote:
>> something I have wondered about but never asked. My plane builder
>> listed the GW at 1650, empty is 1080, but I had seen other ones at
>> 1750. I have been told the 6a has safely carried up to 1850, even tho
>> GW at 1750. I once unknowingly carried a psg who later told me he
>> weighed 235lb, didn=99t look it, but landed much harder that usual
. I
>> usually carry 200 lb psr max with full fuel and min baggage. Over
>> that I usually carry 3/4 to 1/2 fuel.
>> as a mater of fact I have not had anyone with me over 150 lb for past
>> 2 years.. I have weighed 185 for several years. And at 75 that is not
>> easy to do. Smile emoticon BTW, knowing that Art xxxx racing in
>> cherokee 140 used to carry his psgr in back seat, so when I did my
>> first race I had 80 lb of batteries in bagage which gave me extra
>> 5mph. Hope to get to bottom of this gross thing. Yhanks, Charlie
>>
>> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by
>> Avast.
>> www.avast.com
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
I think we all agree that a builder can request whatever gross wt they
want from DAR. They need to show calculated W&B for several loading
scenarios to show they can stay within the c.g. limits. DAR will use his
judgement in how much he will go above kit maker's recommendation.
What is not so clear is what it takes to get a revised gross wt later,
after say Phase I, and who can approve such a change.
On 11/22/2015 2:49 PM, RV6 Flyer wrote:
>
> What determines the gross weight of a homebuilt aircraft?
> Here is what EAA has to say:
>
> http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-communities-and-interests/homebuilt-aircraft-and-homebuilt-aircraft-kits/frequently-asked-questions/gross-weight
>
> Copy/Paste from the above link:
> "From a regulatory standpoint, the builder of a homebuilt is in fact the "manufacturer"
of that individual aircraft, and is allowed to set the weight limits,
including gross weight, anyplace he/she cares to."
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com>
on behalf of Charlie England
> Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2015 4:14 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: 6A gross wt
>
>
> Unless there has been a very recent change in the regs, the owner can
> raise gross weight by treating it as a major modification. Depending on
> which version of operating limitations are on the plane, it could be as
> simple as logging a return to phase one, flying 5 hrs of tests at the
> increased gross weight, and logging the successful results with a return
> to phase two (normal operation). Newer versions require notifying the
> local FSDO & getting their approval for the proposed test area (which
> might well be the same as the original test area).
>
> Not saying anyone should; just that it can be done. As mentioned, there
> are lots of 6's & 6A's with higher than 1600 lb gross weights in their
> oplims.
>
> Tangentially related to the subject of best glide, Van once wrote an
> article about best climb rate in the short wing RV's. He indicated that
> due to increased induced drag of the low aspect ratio wing at low
> airspeeds, the 4/6/7/8 would climb at almost identical rates at anywhere
> between around 90 mph & 130 mph (rough numbers from my flaky memory).
> His suggestion was for normal (not obstacle clearance) climb to be at
> around 130 mph because the rate would be the same but a lot more ground
> could be covered. I've never bothered to test it, but it seems
> reasonable that a slightly higher speed might extend the *range* of a
> glide, as well.
>
> Charlie
>
>
> On 11/21/2015 8:33 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>> As I understand it, you are pretty much stuck with what the original
>> builder asked for. I don't know what a DAR would have to do to get you
>> a changed gross wt.
>>
>> On 11/21/2015 4:45 PM, cheathco(at)cox.net wrote:
>>> something I have wondered about but never asked. My plane builder
>>> listed the GW at 1650, empty is 1080, but I had seen other ones at
>>> 1750. I have been told the 6a has safely carried up to 1850, even tho
>>> GW at 1750. I once unknowingly carried a psg who later told me he
>>> weighed 235lb, didnt look it, but landed much harder that usual. I
>>> usually carry 200 lb psr max with full fuel and min baggage. Over
>>> that I usually carry 3/4 to 1/2 fuel.
>>> as a mater of fact I have not had anyone with me over 150 lb for past
>>> 2 years.. I have weighed 185 for several years. And at 75 that is not
>>> easy to do. Smile emoticon BTW, knowing that Art xxxx racing in
>>> cherokee 140 used to carry his psgr in back seat, so when I did my
>>> first race I had 80 lb of batteries in bagage which gave me extra
>>> 5mph. Hope to get to bottom of this gross thing. Yhanks, Charlie
>>>
>>> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by
>>> Avast.
>>> www.avast.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <cheathco(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Flt reveiw/ GW/best glide |
Thanks for all the usefull input to my inquiries. I did well on my FR, and
we experimented with glide speeds and found 90 to 100 mph pretty much looke
d the same, yielding 500/600 FPM. Visually it seemed we were covering a lot
of ground as well. Re GW, I will leave it alone based on y'alls input. N
ow I have to get into my radio problem. I started getting static on way bck
to Instructors field and when coming in to Fayettville Drake, it got so ba
d controler said it was nearly unreadable. Rec is ok tho. Chalie.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren Brecheisen" <n146wb(at)cfu.net> |
| Subject: | Flt reveiw/ GW/best glide |
I've been having an intermittent problem with transmitting. With mine it's
I either transmit or I don't, not static. When it isn't working, mine sort
of gives me a soft squeal and the transmit light stays off. So far I've
checked the PTT switch and it's ground-ok, w/ 1 ohm resistance. I've also
tried turning off the intercom, which will route the PTT output directly to
the nav/com and bypass the intermcom (to eliminate the intercom as the
problem). That isn't the problem either. I haven't determined what to do
next. Intermittent problems are hard to resolve, but it sounds like yours
is not intermittent but a real failure, which should be easier to track
down. I would be interested in how you resolve the issue.
Warren
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of cheathco(at)cox.net
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2015 7:16 AM
Subject: RV-List: Flt reveiw/ GW/best glide
Thanks for all the usefull input to my inquiries. I did well on my FR, and
we experimented with glide speeds and found 90 to 100 mph pretty much looked
the same, yielding 500/600 FPM. Visually it seemed we were covering a lot of
ground as well. Re GW, I will leave it alone based on y'alls input. Now I
have to get into my radio problem. I started getting static on way bck to
Instructors field and when coming in to Fayettville Drake, it got so bad
controler said it was nearly unreadable. Rec is ok tho. Chalie.
This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast.
www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jhnstniii <jhnstniii(at)aol.com> |
-----Original Message-----
From: Jhnstniii <jhnstniii(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 22, 2015 3:48 pm
Subject: Re: RV-List: 6A gross wt
In my RV-6A at my all-up cross-country weight of 1800 lbs, and 2550 rpm (pr
op pulled back a bit due to rpm prop restriction), with a 180 hp 0-360-A1A
and Hartzell blended airfoil prop, I find that my best rate of climb is abo
ut 120 knots. I find that the short, broad cord wing has considerable indu
ced drag if I try to fly slower (higher AOA) when I am heavy. Plus any tim
e the temps are warm I need that kind of airspeed for engine cooling in a p
rolonged climb to cruise altitude. Depending on air temperature, this resu
lts in a rate of climb of anywhere from 600 fpm on a 90 degree day to about
1300 feet per minute on a 40 degree day. CHTs stay in the green, but when
I am IFR, obstacle clearance must be paid attention to. 600 fpm at 120 k
nots is only 300 feet per nautical mile.
LeRoy Johnston RV-6A Esperanza, 970 hours.
-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 21, 2015 11:17 pm
Subject: Re: RV-List: 6A gross wt
Unless there has been a very recent change in the regs, the owner can
raise gross weight by treating it as a major modification. Depending on
which version of operating limitations are on the plane, it could be as
simple as logging a return to phase one, flying 5 hrs of tests at the
increased gross weight, and logging the successful results with a return
to phase two (normal operation). Newer versions require notifying the
local FSDO & getting their approval for the proposed test area (which
might well be the same as the original test area).
Not saying anyone should; just that it can be done. As mentioned, there
are lots of 6's & 6A's with higher than 1600 lb gross weights in their
oplims.
Tangentially related to the subject of best glide, Van once wrote an
article about best climb rate in the short wing RV's. He indicated that
due to increased induced drag of the low aspect ratio wing at low
airspeeds, the 4/6/7/8 would climb at almost identical rates at anywhere
between around 90 mph & 130 mph (rough numbers from my flaky memory).
His suggestion was for normal (not obstacle clearance) climb to be at
around 130 mph because the rate would be the same but a lot more ground
could be covered. I've never bothered to test it, but it seems
reasonable that a slightly higher speed might extend the *range* of a
glide, as well.
Charlie
On 11/21/2015 8:33 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> As I understand it, you are pretty much stuck with what the original
> builder asked for. I don't know what a DAR would have to do to get you
> a changed gross wt.
>
> On 11/21/2015 4:45 PM, cheathco(at)cox.net wrote:
>> something I have wondered about but never asked. My plane builder
>> listed the GW at 1650, empty is 1080, but I had seen other ones at
>> 1750. I have been told the 6a has safely carried up to 1850, even tho
>> GW at 1750. I once unknowingly carried a psg who later told me he
>> weighed 235lb, didn=99t look it, but landed much harder that usual
. I
>> usually carry 200 lb psr max with full fuel and min baggage. Over
>> that I usually carry 3/4 to 1/2 fuel.
>> as a mater of fact I have not had anyone with me over 150 lb for past
>> 2 years.. I have weighed 185 for several years. And at 75 that is not
>> easy to do. Smile emoticon BTW, knowing that Art xxxx racing in
>> cherokee 140 used to carry his psgr in back seat, so when I did my
>> first race I had 80 lb of batteries in bagage which gave me extra
>> 5mph. Hope to get to bottom of this gross thing. Yhanks, Charlie
>>
>> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by
>> Avast.
>> www.avast.com
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Flt reveiw/ GW/best glide |
First things to check:
. Remove the radio from the rack, check rear connections (bent, off
color), reset radio.
. Make sure the power connections on the radio breaker(s) are tight
and you have a good ground (I chased this exact problem too long before I
found the power lead loose on the breaker screw).
. Put an antenna analyzer on the radio end of the coax lead to the
antenna. If nothing else, measure continuity on the antenna lead (no short
between center pin and shield, no/low resistance between center pin and
antenna itself). Wiggle the coax when doing this to see if you have an
intermittent contact problem.
Carl
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Warren Brecheisen
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2015 8:30 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Flt reveiw/ GW/best glide
I've been having an intermittent problem with transmitting. With mine it's
I either transmit or I don't, not static. When it isn't working, mine sort
of gives me a soft squeal and the transmit light stays off. So far I've
checked the PTT switch and it's ground-ok, w/ 1 ohm resistance. I've also
tried turning off the intercom, which will route the PTT output directly to
the nav/com and bypass the intermcom (to eliminate the intercom as the
problem). That isn't the problem either. I haven't determined what to do
next. Intermittent problems are hard to resolve, but it sounds like yours
is not intermittent but a real failure, which should be easier to track
down. I would be interested in how you resolve the issue.
Warren
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of cheathco(at)cox.net
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2015 7:16 AM
Subject: RV-List: Flt reveiw/ GW/best glide
Thanks for all the usefull input to my inquiries. I did well on my FR, and
we experimented with glide speeds and found 90 to 100 mph pretty much looked
the same, yielding 500/600 FPM. Visually it seemed we were covering a lot of
ground as well. Re GW, I will leave it alone based on y'alls input. Now I
have to get into my radio problem. I started getting static on way bck to
Instructors field and when coming in to Fayettville Drake, it got so bad
controler said it was nearly unreadable. Rec is ok tho. Chalie.
Image removed by sender.
This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast.
www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Fund Raiser Behind By 22% - Please Contribute Today! |
Dear Listers,
The percentage of members making a Contribution to support the Lists this year
is currently behind last year by at this time by roughly 22%. Please take this
opportunity to show your support for the Matronics Lists and Forums!
Please remember that it is *solely* your direct Contributions that keep these Lists
and Forums up and running and most importantly - AD FREE! If the members
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Please take a moment to make a Contribution today in support of the continued ad-free
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Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
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USA
I want to send out a word of appreciation to all of the members that have already
made their generous Contribution to support the Lists! Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List and Forums Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just A Few Days Left... |
Dear Listers,
There are just a few days left for this year's List Fund Raiser. If you've been
putting off making a Contribution until the last minute, well, this is it!
The last minute, that is... :-) There are some GREAT new gift selections to choose
from this year. I personally want at least three of them! There's probably
something you can't live without too! And, best of all it supports your
Lists!
Please remember that there isn't any sort of commercial advertising on the Lists
and the *only* means of keeping these Lists running is through your Contributions
during this Fund Raiser. Let's make this a "Black Friday" for the Lists!
Please make a Contribution today!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
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581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What Are You Thankful For...? |
Dear Listers,
Here in the United States, Thursday is our National day of Thanksgiving. Many
of us will be traveling to be with our families and friends to share in generous
feasts of plenty and giving thanks for the many blessings that have been bestowed
upon us.
Many Listers have expressed over the last couple of weeks how thankful they are
for the Email Lists and Forums here on the Matronics servers and for all of the
assistance and comradery they have experienced being a part of the Lists.
One of my favorite comments is when someone writes to me and says something like,
"Its the first thing I do in the morning while I'm having my morning coffee!".
That's a wonderful tribute to the purpose and function of these Lists.
Its always great to hear I'm not the only one that jumps out of bed each morning
to check my List email!!
Won't you take a minute today and show your appreciation for these Lists and for
their continued operation and upgrade?
The List Contribution Site is:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
Thank you in advance for your kind consideration,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Coming Soon! |
Dear Listers,
There's just three more days left in this year's List Fund Raiser and that means
the List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post
a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their
appreciation for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Fund Raiser - Just Two Days Left! - Still Well Behind... |
Dear Listers,
There are just two more full days left in this year's List Fund Raiser. Over the
last couple of weeks I have received some really nice comments from members
on what the Lists have meant to them and I really appreciate the feedback!
At this point, unfortunately, we are still well behind last year in total Contributions
to support the continued operation of these services. I really want
to keep providing these Lists and Forums to the home built community, but it takes
resources. Since there's no advertising budget or deep pockets to keep the
operation a float, it's *solely your generosity* during the yearly Fund Raiser
that keeps things going. Please make a Contribution today so that I can keep
the bills paid and the services and systems turned on. If you've been putting
off showing your support for the Lists, now is the time to do it!
To make a contribution with a Credit Card or though PayPal at that Matronics Contribution
web site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a check in the mail:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
USA
Thank you in advance for your support! It is very much appreciated...
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] Why I Have A Fund Raiser... |
Since the beginning, the Matronics List and Forum experience has been free from
advertising. I have been approached by fair number of vendors wanting to tap
into the large volume of activity across the various lists hosted here, but have
always flatly refused. Everywhere you go on the Internet these days, a user
is pummeled with flashing banners and videos and ads for crap that they don't
want. Yahoo, Google and that elk are not "free". The user must constantly
endure their barrage of commercialism thrust into their face at an ever increasing
rate. Enough is enough, and the Lists at Matronics choose not to succumb
to that.
That being said, running a service of this size is not "free". It costs a lot
of money to maintain the hardware, pay for the electricity, air conditioning,
maintenance contracts, etc, etc. etc. I choose to hold a PBS-like fund raiser
each year during the month of November where I simply send out a short email
every other day asking the members to make a small contribution to support the
operation. That being said, that contribution is completely voluntary and non-compulsory.
Many members choose not to contribute and that's fine.
However, a very modest percentage of the members do choose to make a contribution
and it is that financial support that keeps the Lists running. And that's
it. To my way of thinking, it is a much more pleasant way of maintaining the
Lists and Forums. The other 11 months of the year, you don't see a single advertisement
or request for support. That's refreshing and that is a List and Forum
that I want to belong to. I think other people feel the same way.
Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support these
Lists?
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
It's November 30th and that always means a couple of things. Its my birthday again
- 52, so don't remind me! :-) But it also means that it's that last official
day of the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been thinking about
picking up one of those really nice incentive gifts now is the time to jump on
it!!
If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting
it off for some reason, NOW is the time!
I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want
to be known as a person that supported the Lists!
I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution this year in
support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation running
and I don't ever
forget it.
The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making
your Contribution right now:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
Thank you in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
Cross posted from the Canard lists that I am also a member of.....
In case anyone's been living under a rock, the Senate just passed S.571, Senator
Inhofe's bill that would eliminate the 3rd class medical. That's right it's
cleared committee and already passed the senate!
This is a big deal for a lot of us, maybe you in a few years. I deal with a special
issuance medical for a pretty minor issue and it's a hassle and expense every
year. The next hurdle is the house (H.R. 1062) where it has 142 bipartisan
cosponsors among the 435 members. If ever there was a good time to contact
your representative it's now. Please take a minute a drop them a line. We
don't want to lose this legislation this deep into the process.
Here's a list of whose on board:
http://www.aopa.org/Advocacy/Legislative-Affairs/Pilots-Bill-of-Rights-2
And a list of who is not:
http://www.aopa.org/Advocacy/Legislative-Affairs/Non-CoSponsors-PBR2
And here's where you can contact your representative:
http://govt.eaa.org/17422/support-pilots-bill-rights-2/
There, I've done everything I can to help! Please take a minute and help get this
done!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christopher Cee Stone <rv8iator(at)gmail.com> |
Ralph...
Thanks for posting this. PBOR2 is important milestone legislation that
needs to pass.
-chris stone
On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 2:19 PM, Ralph E. Capen
wrote:
>
> Cross posted from the Canard lists that I am also a member of.....
>
>
> In case anyone's been living under a rock, the Senate just passed S.571,
> Senator Inhofe's bill that would eliminate the 3rd class medical. That's
> right it's cleared committee and already passed the senate!
> This is a big deal for a lot of us, maybe you in a few years. I deal with
> a special issuance medical for a pretty minor issue and it's a hassle and
> expense every year. The next hurdle is the house (H.R. 1062) where it
> has 142 bipartisan cosponsors among the 435 members. If ever there was a
> good time to contact your representative it's now. Please take a minute a
> drop them a line. We don't want to lose this legislation this deep into
> the process.
> Here's a list of whose on board:
> http://www.aopa.org/Advocacy/Legislative-Affairs/Pilots-Bill-of-Rights-2
>
> And a list of who is not:
> http://www.aopa.org/Advocacy/Legislative-Affairs/Non-CoSponsors-PBR2
>
> And here's where you can contact your representative:
> http://govt.eaa.org/17422/support-pilots-bill-rights-2/
>
> There, I've done everything I can to help! Please take a minute and help
> get this done!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV pilots in San Diego? |
| From: | "skyjockey" <mixxalot(at)yahoo.com> |
I am new to the San Diego area and looking to meet fellow RV pilots for flying
and eventually buy one.
--------
warbird and lover of all things that go fast and upside down!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451007#451007
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Lycoming O-360 Fuel Flow Rate |
I'm still chasing down this weird problem with low fuel flow rates on the RV-6.
I've replaced the mechanical fuel pump and got a rebuilt 4-5 carburetor, both
of which were well over do for replacement/overhaul anyway. I haven't put the
cowling back on yet, but I did a static run up to about 2350-2400 and am seeing
about 9gph, which seems low to me?
I pulled the fuel line off the carburetor and turned the electric fuel pump on
and saw about 21 GPH flow. Is that considered "normal" or too low?
Thanks for the feedback,
Matt
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 210+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O-360 Fuel Flow Rate |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 12/18/2015 4:38 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>
> I'm still chasing down this weird problem with low fuel flow rates on the RV-6.
I've replaced the mechanical fuel pump and got a rebuilt 4-5 carburetor, both
of which were well over do for replacement/overhaul anyway. I haven't put
the cowling back on yet, but I did a static run up to about 2350-2400 and am
seeing about 9gph, which seems low to me?
>
> I pulled the fuel line off the carburetor and turned the electric fuel pump on
and saw about 21 GPH flow. Is that considered "normal" or too low?
>
> Thanks for the feedback,
>
> Matt
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
Never paid much attention to my flow when doing a static runup, but that
doesn't sound too unreasonable. If CS & flat pitch, it won't take much
power to get to 2400rpm. What's the MAP? You should be able to use Lyc's
power charts to see MAP/rpm/power. 75% on a 180 is around 10 GPH, if
leaned. Obviously lower fuel flow if you're under 24".
I think that the FAA recommends 125% of max power flow if running a pump
(150% for gravity feed). Max power flow would be (180 * .6)/6=18GPH.
That would assume a very rich mixture of .6 lbs per HP per hour. So your
electric pump flow sounds more than adequate.
It's really odd that you didn't see any degraded performance when your
flow went from 17 down to 9 gph in climbout, unless it's some sort of
instrumentation issue giving false readings. Hard to explain two
different flow monitors making the same error, but hard to explain the
performance, too. :-)
Having said that, if you were seeing 9gph in a full power (2700rpm, full
rich, 29"MAP) before, and you're now seeing the same flow on the ground,
with less than full throttle, flat pitch & 2400 rpm, then *something*
must be better now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O-360 Fuel Flow Rate |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
While fuel flow numbers are good general indicators, EGT will tell you
more. On takeoff at sea level you should see 1200-1300 EGT with 1250
optimal. If your fuel flow is too low EGT will go well above 1300.
Assuming 180 hp version, Fuel flow for takeoff should be around 16-18
gph. Cruise at 75% should be 9-9.5 gph.
On 12/18/2015 4:25 PM, Charlie England wrote:
>
> On 12/18/2015 4:38 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm still chasing down this weird problem with low fuel flow rates on
>> the RV-6. I've replaced the mechanical fuel pump and got a rebuilt
>> 4-5 carburetor, both of which were well over do for
>> replacement/overhaul anyway. I haven't put the cowling back on yet,
>> but I did a static run up to about 2350-2400 and am seeing about
>> 9gph, which seems low to me?
>>
>> I pulled the fuel line off the carburetor and turned the electric
>> fuel pump on and saw about 21 GPH flow. Is that considered "normal"
>> or too low?
>>
>> Thanks for the feedback,
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> -
>> Matt Dralle
> Never paid much attention to my flow when doing a static runup, but
> that doesn't sound too unreasonable. If CS & flat pitch, it won't take
> much power to get to 2400rpm. What's the MAP? You should be able to
> use Lyc's power charts to see MAP/rpm/power. 75% on a 180 is around 10
> GPH, if leaned. Obviously lower fuel flow if you're under 24".
>
> I think that the FAA recommends 125% of max power flow if running a
> pump (150% for gravity feed). Max power flow would be (180 *
> .6)/6=18GPH. That would assume a very rich mixture of .6 lbs per HP
> per hour. So your electric pump flow sounds more than adequate.
>
> It's really odd that you didn't see any degraded performance when your
> flow went from 17 down to 9 gph in climbout, unless it's some sort of
> instrumentation issue giving false readings. Hard to explain two
> different flow monitors making the same error, but hard to explain the
> performance, too. :-)
>
> Having said that, if you were seeing 9gph in a full power (2700rpm,
> full rich, 29"MAP) before, and you're now seeing the same flow on the
> ground, with less than full throttle, flat pitch & 2400 rpm, then
> *something* must be better now.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O-360 Fuel Flow Rate |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
135 hp & 9 gph would be .4 lbs per hp per hour. That's pretty
impressive, for an air cooled gasoline engine with 8.5-1 compression.
What do the Lyc charts say?
On 12/18/2015 6:28 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> While fuel flow numbers are good general indicators, EGT will tell you
> more. On takeoff at sea level you should see 1200-1300 EGT with 1250
> optimal. If your fuel flow is too low EGT will go well above 1300.
> Assuming 180 hp version, Fuel flow for takeoff should be around 16-18
> gph. Cruise at 75% should be 9-9.5 gph.
>
> On 12/18/2015 4:25 PM, Charlie England wrote:
>>
>> On 12/18/2015 4:38 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm still chasing down this weird problem with low fuel flow rates
>>> on the RV-6. I've replaced the mechanical fuel pump and got a
>>> rebuilt 4-5 carburetor, both of which were well over do for
>>> replacement/overhaul anyway. I haven't put the cowling back on yet,
>>> but I did a static run up to about 2350-2400 and am seeing about
>>> 9gph, which seems low to me?
>>>
>>> I pulled the fuel line off the carburetor and turned the electric
>>> fuel pump on and saw about 21 GPH flow. Is that considered "normal"
>>> or too low?
>>>
>>> Thanks for the feedback,
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>>> -
>>> Matt Dralle
>> Never paid much attention to my flow when doing a static runup, but
>> that doesn't sound too unreasonable. If CS & flat pitch, it won't
>> take much power to get to 2400rpm. What's the MAP? You should be able
>> to use Lyc's power charts to see MAP/rpm/power. 75% on a 180 is
>> around 10 GPH, if leaned. Obviously lower fuel flow if you're under 24".
>>
>> I think that the FAA recommends 125% of max power flow if running a
>> pump (150% for gravity feed). Max power flow would be (180 *
>> .6)/6=18GPH. That would assume a very rich mixture of .6 lbs per HP
>> per hour. So your electric pump flow sounds more than adequate.
>>
>> It's really odd that you didn't see any degraded performance when
>> your flow went from 17 down to 9 gph in climbout, unless it's some
>> sort of instrumentation issue giving false readings. Hard to explain
>> two different flow monitors making the same error, but hard to
>> explain the performance, too. :-)
>>
>> Having said that, if you were seeing 9gph in a full power (2700rpm,
>> full rich, 29"MAP) before, and you're now seeing the same flow on the
>> ground, with less than full throttle, flat pitch & 2400 rpm, then
>> *something* must be better now.
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O-360 Fuel Flow Rate |
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
EGT varies significantly depending on where the probes are in relation
to the flange, and also radially. EGT is most valuable as a comparison
to the history ..... significant change in EGT will alert you to a
change in that cylinders operation, but the actual number (historically)
really doesn't tell you much. Properly calibrated FF and a MP gauge
will tell you far more about power.
Linn (IMHO)
On 12/18/2015 7:28 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> While fuel flow numbers are good general indicators, EGT will tell you
> more. On takeoff at sea level you should see 1200-1300 EGT with 1250
> optimal. If your fuel flow is too low EGT will go well above 1300.
> Assuming 180 hp version, Fuel flow for takeoff should be around 16-18
> gph. Cruise at 75% should be 9-9.5 gph.
>
> On 12/18/2015 4:25 PM, Charlie England wrote:
>>
>> On 12/18/2015 4:38 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm still chasing down this weird problem with low fuel flow rates
>>> on the RV-6. I've replaced the mechanical fuel pump and got a
>>> rebuilt 4-5 carburetor, both of which were well over do for
>>> replacement/overhaul anyway. I haven't put the cowling back on yet,
>>> but I did a static run up to about 2350-2400 and am seeing about
>>> 9gph, which seems low to me?
>>>
>>> I pulled the fuel line off the carburetor and turned the electric
>>> fuel pump on and saw about 21 GPH flow. Is that considered "normal"
>>> or too low?
>>>
>>> Thanks for the feedback,
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>>> -
>>> Matt Dralle
>> Never paid much attention to my flow when doing a static runup, but
>> that doesn't sound too unreasonable. If CS & flat pitch, it won't
>> take much power to get to 2400rpm. What's the MAP? You should be able
>> to use Lyc's power charts to see MAP/rpm/power. 75% on a 180 is
>> around 10 GPH, if leaned. Obviously lower fuel flow if you're under 24".
>>
>> I think that the FAA recommends 125% of max power flow if running a
>> pump (150% for gravity feed). Max power flow would be (180 *
>> .6)/6=18GPH. That would assume a very rich mixture of .6 lbs per HP
>> per hour. So your electric pump flow sounds more than adequate.
>>
>> It's really odd that you didn't see any degraded performance when
>> your flow went from 17 down to 9 gph in climbout, unless it's some
>> sort of instrumentation issue giving false readings. Hard to explain
>> two different flow monitors making the same error, but hard to
>> explain the performance, too. :-)
>>
>> Having said that, if you were seeing 9gph in a full power (2700rpm,
>> full rich, 29"MAP) before, and you're now seeing the same flow on the
>> ground, with less than full throttle, flat pitch & 2400 rpm, then
>> *something* must be better now.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O-360 Fuel Flow Rate |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
I don't disagree with your points in general, but they are not
particularly relevant for this situation.
1. His fuel flow has demonstrated to be unreliable, so is not properly
calibrated.
2. At full power installation variations are minimized due to the
velocity and volume of exhaust, compared to cruise settings.
3. 1200-1300 are very reliable numbers. Whether it varies 25 degrees one
way or the other is not important. It is important that it be within
that 100 degree range to indicate combustion approximately 150-200 ROP.
Given he does not know if his fuel flow is working, only the EGT will
confirm fuel flow.
The actual temp will vary from engine to engine and with OAT. That is
why it is a range, not a single number. He wants to know if his fuel
flow is in the ballpark to safely operate the engine, not if it is optimal.
On 12/18/2015 7:55 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
>
> EGT varies significantly depending on where the probes are in relation
> to the flange, and also radially. EGT is most valuable as a
> comparison to the history ..... significant change in EGT will alert
> you to a change in that cylinders operation, but the actual number
> (historically) really doesn't tell you much. Properly calibrated FF
> and a MP gauge will tell you far more about power.
> Linn (IMHO)
>
> On 12/18/2015 7:28 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>> While fuel flow numbers are good general indicators, EGT will tell
>> you more. On takeoff at sea level you should see 1200-1300 EGT with
>> 1250 optimal. If your fuel flow is too low EGT will go well above 1300.
>> Assuming 180 hp version, Fuel flow for takeoff should be around 16-18
>> gph. Cruise at 75% should be 9-9.5 gph.
>>
>> On 12/18/2015 4:25 PM, Charlie England wrote:
>>>
>>> On 12/18/2015 4:38 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm still chasing down this weird problem with low fuel flow rates
>>>> on the RV-6. I've replaced the mechanical fuel pump and got a
>>>> rebuilt 4-5 carburetor, both of which were well over do for
>>>> replacement/overhaul anyway. I haven't put the cowling back on
>>>> yet, but I did a static run up to about 2350-2400 and am seeing
>>>> about 9gph, which seems low to me?
>>>>
>>>> I pulled the fuel line off the carburetor and turned the electric
>>>> fuel pump on and saw about 21 GPH flow. Is that considered
>>>> "normal" or too low?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the feedback,
>>>>
>>>> Matt
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> Matt Dralle
>>> Never paid much attention to my flow when doing a static runup, but
>>> that doesn't sound too unreasonable. If CS & flat pitch, it won't
>>> take much power to get to 2400rpm. What's the MAP? You should be
>>> able to use Lyc's power charts to see MAP/rpm/power. 75% on a 180 is
>>> around 10 GPH, if leaned. Obviously lower fuel flow if you're under
>>> 24".
>>>
>>> I think that the FAA recommends 125% of max power flow if running a
>>> pump (150% for gravity feed). Max power flow would be (180 *
>>> .6)/6=18GPH. That would assume a very rich mixture of .6 lbs per HP
>>> per hour. So your electric pump flow sounds more than adequate.
>>>
>>> It's really odd that you didn't see any degraded performance when
>>> your flow went from 17 down to 9 gph in climbout, unless it's some
>>> sort of instrumentation issue giving false readings. Hard to explain
>>> two different flow monitors making the same error, but hard to
>>> explain the performance, too. :-)
>>>
>>> Having said that, if you were seeing 9gph in a full power (2700rpm,
>>> full rich, 29"MAP) before, and you're now seeing the same flow on
>>> the ground, with less than full throttle, flat pitch & 2400 rpm,
>>> then *something* must be better now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O-360 Fuel Flow Rate |
| From: | Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> |
We really do agree ..... for Matt's case. Too many listers (me included
:-P ) read posts and take the content as being applicable in a broad
sense. I didn't want a whole new thread to result because others aren't
getting EGTs in that specific range. I have friends that are completely
anal about their EGT readings ..... especially when they have a new (to
them) engine monitoring system.
Linn
On 12/19/2015 12:05 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> I don't disagree with your points in general, but they are not
> particularly relevant for this situation.
> 1. His fuel flow has demonstrated to be unreliable, so is not properly
> calibrated.
> 2. At full power installation variations are minimized due to the
> velocity and volume of exhaust, compared to cruise settings.
> 3. 1200-1300 are very reliable numbers. Whether it varies 25 degrees
> one way or the other is not important. It is important that it be
> within that 100 degree range to indicate combustion approximately
> 150-200 ROP. Given he does not know if his fuel flow is working, only
> the EGT will confirm fuel flow.
> The actual temp will vary from engine to engine and with OAT. That is
> why it is a range, not a single number. He wants to know if his fuel
> flow is in the ballpark to safely operate the engine, not if it is
> optimal.
>
> On 12/18/2015 7:55 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
>>
>> EGT varies significantly depending on where the probes are in
>> relation to the flange, and also radially. EGT is most valuable as a
>> comparison to the history ..... significant change in EGT will alert
>> you to a change in that cylinders operation, but the actual number
>> (historically) really doesn't tell you much. Properly calibrated FF
>> and a MP gauge will tell you far more about power.
>> Linn (IMHO)
>>
>> On 12/18/2015 7:28 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>>
>>> While fuel flow numbers are good general indicators, EGT will tell
>>> you more. On takeoff at sea level you should see 1200-1300 EGT with
>>> 1250 optimal. If your fuel flow is too low EGT will go well above 1300.
>>> Assuming 180 hp version, Fuel flow for takeoff should be around
>>> 16-18 gph. Cruise at 75% should be 9-9.5 gph.
>>>
>>> On 12/18/2015 4:25 PM, Charlie England wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 12/18/2015 4:38 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm still chasing down this weird problem with low fuel flow rates
>>>>> on the RV-6. I've replaced the mechanical fuel pump and got a
>>>>> rebuilt 4-5 carburetor, both of which were well over do for
>>>>> replacement/overhaul anyway. I haven't put the cowling back on
>>>>> yet, but I did a static run up to about 2350-2400 and am seeing
>>>>> about 9gph, which seems low to me?
>>>>>
>>>>> I pulled the fuel line off the carburetor and turned the electric
>>>>> fuel pump on and saw about 21 GPH flow. Is that considered
>>>>> "normal" or too low?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the feedback,
>>>>>
>>>>> Matt
>>>>>
>>>>> -
>>>>> Matt Dralle
>>>> Never paid much attention to my flow when doing a static runup, but
>>>> that doesn't sound too unreasonable. If CS & flat pitch, it won't
>>>> take much power to get to 2400rpm. What's the MAP? You should be
>>>> able to use Lyc's power charts to see MAP/rpm/power. 75% on a 180
>>>> is around 10 GPH, if leaned. Obviously lower fuel flow if you're
>>>> under 24".
>>>>
>>>> I think that the FAA recommends 125% of max power flow if running a
>>>> pump (150% for gravity feed). Max power flow would be (180 *
>>>> .6)/6=18GPH. That would assume a very rich mixture of .6 lbs per HP
>>>> per hour. So your electric pump flow sounds more than adequate.
>>>>
>>>> It's really odd that you didn't see any degraded performance when
>>>> your flow went from 17 down to 9 gph in climbout, unless it's some
>>>> sort of instrumentation issue giving false readings. Hard to
>>>> explain two different flow monitors making the same error, but hard
>>>> to explain the performance, too. :-)
>>>>
>>>> Having said that, if you were seeing 9gph in a full power (2700rpm,
>>>> full rich, 29"MAP) before, and you're now seeing the same flow on
>>>> the ground, with less than full throttle, flat pitch & 2400 rpm,
>>>> then *something* must be better now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O-360 Fuel Flow Rate |
Hi Matt,
It wouldn't be too hard to check the calibration of your fuel flow gauge
including the sensor. Could you make a restricted fitting so that it flows
about 10 to 14 GPH using the electric pump? See how long it takes to fill
a 1 quart jar while observing the fuel flow meter. Divide 900 by the time
in seconds for GPH. 60 seconds would be 15 GPH. Compare the calculated
GPH with what your fuel flow gauge read during the test.
Be careful, obviously!
Just a wild idea, so take it for what its worth!
I know someone (can't name the person!) who put the sensor in backwards
while being distracted by a visitor. The readings were low!
Dan
RV-7A 766DH -- flying since 2004
In a message dated 12/18/2015 5:42:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dralle(at)matronics.com writes:
I'm still chasing down this weird problem with low fuel flow rates on the
RV-6. I've replaced the mechanical fuel pump and got a rebuilt 4-5
carburetor, both of which were well over do for replacement/overhaul anyway.
I
haven't put the cowling back on yet, but I did a static run up to about
2350-2400 and am seeing about 9gph, which seems low to me?
I pulled the fuel line off the carburetor and turned the electric fuel
pump on and saw about 21 GPH flow. Is that considered "normal" or too low?
Thanks for the feedback,
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O-360 Fuel Flow Rate |
Thank you to everyone that responded!! There were some great comments that got
me going down the right path.
Last night I got the cowling back on and took the RV-6 out on the runway and ran
it up to full power with the intent of carefully watching the flow rate and
aborting the take off if the flow wasn't sufficiently high enough. I'm happy
to report that the flow rate climbed nicely up though the teens as my takeoff
roll progressed. I lifted off around 15-16 gph and decided to take it around
the pattern. As I climbed through the crosswind to downwind turn I noted that
the flow was in the 18.5gph range, RPM was at 2700, and EGTs were low 1300's.
After a few more loops around the pattern everything seemed to be working as
expected. I took it out of the pattern and dialed it into my normal cruse configuration
which is typically 75% power at 2250 RPM and leaned to about 1425
on the hottest EGT. Everything sounded and felt fine. Flow was right at 9.5
GPH per usual.
The only weird thing I noticed was at about 1700 RPM. When I turn from Downwind
to Base and go from idle to about 2000 RPM like I usually do, right about 1700
RPM the engine kind of sags and then picks back up. It is very repeatable.
Strangely there is no sag on the ground after a touch and go when I push the
throttle in fast going from idle to full power anymore like there was with the
old carb.
Does anyone have any idea what that sag at 1700 is? Is there a nurd knob on the
carb for this specifically?
Thanks again for the great feedback!
Matt Dralle
At 02:38 PM 12/18/2015 Friday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>I'm still chasing down this weird problem with low fuel flow rates on the RV-6.
I've replaced the mechanical fuel pump and got a rebuilt 4-5 carburetor, both
of which were well over do for replacement/overhaul anyway. I haven't put
the cowling back on yet, but I did a static run up to about 2350-2400 and am seeing
about 9gph, which seems low to me?
>
>I pulled the fuel line off the carburetor and turned the electric fuel pump on
and saw about 21 GPH flow. Is that considered "normal" or too low?
>
>Thanks for the feedback,
>
>Matt
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 210+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Cantrell" <kcflyrv(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O-360 Fuel Flow Rate |
For me, in the same situation,(in the pattern adding power from idle) this
sag at 1700 has been very common. I have 2100+ hours on my O-360 precision
carburetor RV-6. Always unsettling but never became a more serious issue.
Ken Cantrell
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2015 12:45 PM
rv6-list(at)matronics.com; rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Re: Lycoming O-360 Fuel Flow Rate
Thank you to everyone that responded!! There were some great comments that
got me going down the right path.
Last night I got the cowling back on and took the RV-6 out on the runway and
ran it up to full power with the intent of carefully watching the flow rate
and aborting the take off if the flow wasn't sufficiently high enough. I'm
happy to report that the flow rate climbed nicely up though the teens as my
takeoff roll progressed. I lifted off around 15-16 gph and decided to take
it around the pattern. As I climbed through the crosswind to downwind turn
I noted that the flow was in the 18.5gph range, RPM was at 2700, and EGTs
were low 1300's. After a few more loops around the pattern everything
seemed to be working as expected. I took it out of the pattern and dialed
it into my normal cruse configuration which is typically 75% power at 2250
RPM and leaned to about 1425 on the hottest EGT. Everything sounded and
felt fine. Flow was right at 9.5 GPH per usual.
The only weird thing I noticed was at about 1700 RPM. When I turn from
Downwind to Base and go from idle to about 2000 RPM like I usually do, right
about 1700 RPM the engine kind of sags and then picks back up. It is very
repeatable. Strangely there is no sag on the ground after a touch and go
when I push the throttle in fast going from idle to full power anymore like
there was with the old carb.
Does anyone have any idea what that sag at 1700 is? Is there a nurd knob on
the carb for this specifically?
Thanks again for the great feedback!
Matt Dralle
At 02:38 PM 12/18/2015 Friday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>I'm still chasing down this weird problem with low fuel flow rates on the
RV-6. I've replaced the mechanical fuel pump and got a rebuilt 4-5
carburetor, both of which were well over do for replacement/overhaul anyway.
I haven't put the cowling back on yet, but I did a static run up to about
2350-2400 and am seeing about 9gph, which seems low to me?
>
>I pulled the fuel line off the carburetor and turned the electric fuel pump
on and saw about 21 GPH flow. Is that considered "normal" or too low?
>
>Thanks for the feedback,
>
>Matt
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 210+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Auction For P113 eMag To Support Matronics List Fund Raiser |
Dear Listers,
Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric fame has generously put a new eMag P113 electronic
4-cylinder mag up for sale on EBay. Bob has pledged to donate all of the
proceeds from this auction in support of this year's Matronics Fund Raiser.
If you are in the market for one of these great electronic ignitions (I have two
eMags on my RV-8 and love them), please bid on this one!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151920582478
Thank you in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | 2015 List of Contributors |
Dear Listers,
The 2015 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of
weeks ago and it's time that I published this year's List of Contributors.
It is the people on this list that directly make these Email Lists and Forums
possible! Their generous Contributions keep the servers and Internet connection
up and running!
You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same
time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I also want to thank Andy, Bob, and George for their generous support through the
supply of many great gifts this year!! These guys have some excellent products
and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites:
Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com
Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - http://www.aeroelectric.com
George Race - Race Consulting - http://www.mrrace.com
And finally, I'm proud to present The 2015 Fund Raiser List of Contributors:
http://www.matronics.com/loc/2015.html
Thanks again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List & Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O-360 Fuel Flow Rate |
| From: | Lee Johnston <jhnstniii(at)aol.com> |
Trying leaving the mixture a little lean in the pattern and I think you will find
the issue stops happening.
LeRoy Johnston RV-6A Esperanza 1000 hours.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 19, 2015, at 4:30 PM, "Ken Cantrell" wrote:
>
>
> For me, in the same situation,(in the pattern adding power from idle) this
> sag at 1700 has been very common. I have 2100+ hours on my O-360 precision
> carburetor RV-6. Always unsettling but never became a more serious issue.
>
> Ken Cantrell
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
> Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2015 12:45 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; LycomingEngines-list(at)matronics.com;
> rv6-list(at)matronics.com; rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Re: Lycoming O-360 Fuel Flow Rate
>
>
> Thank you to everyone that responded!! There were some great comments that
> got me going down the right path.
>
> Last night I got the cowling back on and took the RV-6 out on the runway and
> ran it up to full power with the intent of carefully watching the flow rate
> and aborting the take off if the flow wasn't sufficiently high enough. I'm
> happy to report that the flow rate climbed nicely up though the teens as my
> takeoff roll progressed. I lifted off around 15-16 gph and decided to take
> it around the pattern. As I climbed through the crosswind to downwind turn
> I noted that the flow was in the 18.5gph range, RPM was at 2700, and EGTs
> were low 1300's. After a few more loops around the pattern everything
> seemed to be working as expected. I took it out of the pattern and dialed
> it into my normal cruse configuration which is typically 75% power at 2250
> RPM and leaned to about 1425 on the hottest EGT. Everything sounded and
> felt fine. Flow was right at 9.5 GPH per usual.
>
> The only weird thing I noticed was at about 1700 RPM. When I turn from
> Downwind to Base and go from idle to about 2000 RPM like I usually do, right
> about 1700 RPM the engine kind of sags and then picks back up. It is very
> repeatable. Strangely there is no sag on the ground after a touch and go
> when I push the throttle in fast going from idle to full power anymore like
> there was with the old carb.
>
> Does anyone have any idea what that sag at 1700 is? Is there a nurd knob on
> the carb for this specifically?
>
> Thanks again for the great feedback!
>
> Matt Dralle
>
>
>
> At 02:38 PM 12/18/2015 Friday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>> I'm still chasing down this weird problem with low fuel flow rates on the
> RV-6. I've replaced the mechanical fuel pump and got a rebuilt 4-5
> carburetor, both of which were well over do for replacement/overhaul anyway.
> I haven't put the cowling back on yet, but I did a static run up to about
> 2350-2400 and am seeing about 9gph, which seems low to me?
>>
>> I pulled the fuel line off the carburetor and turned the electric fuel pump
> on and saw about 21 GPH flow. Is that considered "normal" or too low?
>>
>> Thanks for the feedback,
>>
>> Matt
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 210+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O-360 Fuel Flow Rate |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
I see your problem; you're powering up for landing. :-)
I know that many will disagree with this (having been taught by airline
pilot wannabe's instead of career flight instructors/freight dogs), but
my primary instructor wouldn't let me touch the throttle after going to
idle on downwind. His contention (which I agree with) was that if you
ever have an engine out, how will you land the plane? You'll have no
experience at the task. By staying at idle, it forces you to properly
plan the pattern turns and approach while compensating for wind, etc. It
will also make you adept at staying high (options) & slipping to your
'spot' on the runway. Yes, I know that a c/s prop has higher drag. I
learned to fly in a f/p Luscombe, and used the same technique when I
started flying a f/p T-18, and again in a 200hp, c/s, retract gear Swift
(an elevator on final, compared to an RV). And again when I started
flying RVs.
Just a thought...
Charlie
On 12/19/2015 2:44 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
> Thank you to everyone that responded!! There were some great comments that got
me going down the right path.
>
> Last night I got the cowling back on and took the RV-6 out on the runway and
ran it up to full power with the intent of carefully watching the flow rate and
aborting the take off if the flow wasn't sufficiently high enough. I'm happy
to report that the flow rate climbed nicely up though the teens as my takeoff
roll progressed. I lifted off around 15-16 gph and decided to take it around
the pattern. As I climbed through the crosswind to downwind turn I noted that
the flow was in the 18.5gph range, RPM was at 2700, and EGTs were low 1300's.
After a few more loops around the pattern everything seemed to be working
as expected. I took it out of the pattern and dialed it into my normal cruse
configuration which is typically 75% power at 2250 RPM and leaned to about 1425
on the hottest EGT. Everything sounded and felt fine. Flow was right at 9.5
GPH per usual.
>
> The only weird thing I noticed was at about 1700 RPM. When I turn from Downwind
to Base and go from idle to about 2000 RPM like I usually do, right about
1700 RPM the engine kind of sags and then picks back up. It is very repeatable.
Strangely there is no sag on the ground after a touch and go when I push the
throttle in fast going from idle to full power anymore like there was with
the old carb.
>
> Does anyone have any idea what that sag at 1700 is? Is there a nurd knob on
the carb for this specifically?
>
> Thanks again for the great feedback!
>
> Matt Dralle
>
>
> At 02:38 PM 12/18/2015 Friday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>> I'm still chasing down this weird problem with low fuel flow rates on the RV-6.
I've replaced the mechanical fuel pump and got a rebuilt 4-5 carburetor,
both of which were well over do for replacement/overhaul anyway. I haven't put
the cowling back on yet, but I did a static run up to about 2350-2400 and am
seeing about 9gph, which seems low to me?
>>
>> I pulled the fuel line off the carburetor and turned the electric fuel pump
on and saw about 21 GPH flow. Is that considered "normal" or too low?
>>
>> Thanks for the feedback,
>>
>> Matt
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Senegal <Ssenegal(at)sanbrunocable.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O-360 Fuel Flow Rate |
I've been following this issue with interest but maybe I missed something.
What fixed the problem?
Steve
650.346.6967
Sent from my iPhone between flights.
> On Dec 19, 2015, at 12:44, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>
> Thank you to everyone that responded!! There were some great comments that got
me going down the right path.
>
> Last night I got the cowling back on and took the RV-6 out on the runway and
ran it up to full power with the intent of carefully watching the flow rate and
aborting the take off if the flow wasn't sufficiently high enough. I'm happy
to report that the flow rate climbed nicely up though the teens as my takeoff
roll progressed. I lifted off around 15-16 gph and decided to take it around
the pattern. As I climbed through the crosswind to downwind turn I noted that
the flow was in the 18.5gph range, RPM was at 2700, and EGTs were low 1300's.
After a few more loops around the pattern everything seemed to be working
as expected. I took it out of the pattern and dialed it into my normal cruse
configuration which is typically 75% power at 2250 RPM and leaned to about 1425
on the hottest EGT. Everything sounded and felt fine. Flow was right at 9.5
GPH per usual.
>
> The only weird thing I noticed was at about 1700 RPM. When I turn from Downwind
to Base and go from idle to about 2000 RPM like I usually do, right about
1700 RPM the engine kind of sags and then picks back up. It is very repeatable.
Strangely there is no sag on the ground after a touch and go when I push the
throttle in fast going from idle to full power anymore like there was with
the old carb.
>
> Does anyone have any idea what that sag at 1700 is? Is there a nurd knob on
the carb for this specifically?
>
> Thanks again for the great feedback!
>
> Matt Dralle
>
>
>
> At 02:38 PM 12/18/2015 Friday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>> I'm still chasing down this weird problem with low fuel flow rates on the RV-6.
I've replaced the mechanical fuel pump and got a rebuilt 4-5 carburetor,
both of which were well over do for replacement/overhaul anyway. I haven't put
the cowling back on yet, but I did a static run up to about 2350-2400 and am
seeing about 9gph, which seems low to me?
>>
>> I pulled the fuel line off the carburetor and turned the electric fuel pump
on and saw about 21 GPH flow. Is that considered "normal" or too low?
>>
>> Thanks for the feedback,
>>
>> Matt
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 210+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HCRV6(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O-360 Fuel Flow Rate |
So what did you do to fix the problem Matt?
Harry Crosby
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2015 12:44:41 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Lycoming O-360 Fuel Flow Rate
Thank you to everyone that responded!! There were some great comments that got
me going down the right path.
Last night I got the cowling back on and took the RV-6 out on the runway and ran
it up to full power with the intent of carefully watching the flow rate and
aborting the take off if the flow wasn't sufficiently high enough. I'm happy to
report that the flow rate climbed nicely up though the teens as my takeoff roll
progressed. I lifted off around 15-16 gph and decided to take it around the
pattern. As I climbed through the crosswind to downwind turn I noted that the
flow was in the 18.5gph range, RPM was at 2700, and EGTs were low 1300's. After
a few more loops around the pattern everything seemed to be working as expected.
I took it out of the pattern and dialed it into my normal cruse configuration
which is typically 75% power at 2250 RPM and leaned to about 1425 on the
hottest EGT. Everything sounded and felt fine. Flow was right at 9.5 GPH per
usual.
The only weird thing I noticed was at about 1700 RPM. When I turn from Downwind
to Base and go from idle to about 2000 RPM like I usually do, right about 1700
RPM the engine kind of sags and then picks back up. It is very repeatable. Strangely
there is no sag on the ground after a touch and go when I push the throttle
in fast going from idle to full power anymore like there was with the old
carb.
Does anyone have any idea what that sag at 1700 is? Is there a nurd knob on the
carb for this specifically?
Thanks again for the great feedback!
Matt Dralle
At 02:38 PM 12/18/2015 Friday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>I'm still chasing down this weird problem with low fuel flow rates on the RV-6.
I've replaced the mechanical fuel pump and got a rebuilt 4-5 carburetor, both
of which were well over do for replacement/overhaul anyway. I haven't put the
cowling back on yet, but I did a static run up to about 2350-2400 and am seeing
about 9gph, which seems low to me?
>
>I pulled the fuel line off the carburetor and turned the electric fuel pump on
and saw about 21 GPH flow. Is that considered "normal" or too low?
>
>Thanks for the feedback,
>
>Matt
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 210+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O-360 Fuel Flow Rate |
Well, it was probably the fuel pump. I think my flow rates right after replacing
the fuel pump (but before I replaced the carb) were probably alright as they
were similar to what I saw after the new carb. But, it was time for a new carb
anyway, so I guess it worked out. Btw, as if all of this debacle wasn't frustrating
enough, last weekend while trying to test all of this, the battery
went dead. Checking the logs it was 36 months ago since I replaced it the last
time. Guess that's about right. Sigh. Is it time to fly it yet? I've been
working on it enough lately. ;-)
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 210+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only.
At 10:24 AM 12/21/2015 Monday, you wrote:
>So what did you do to fix the problem Matt?
>
>Harry Crosby
>
>
>----------
>From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
>To: "RV-List" , LycomingEngines-list(at)matronics.com, rv6-list(at)matronics.com,
rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2015 12:44:41 PM
>Subject: RV-List: Re: Lycoming O-360 Fuel Flow Rate
>
>
>Thank you to everyone that responded!! There were some great comments that got
me going down the right path.
>
>Last night I got the cowling back on and took the RV-6 out on the runway and ran
it up to full power with the intent of carefully watching the flow rate and
aborting the take off if the flow wasn't sufficiently high enough. I'm happy
to report that the flow rate climbed nicely up though the teens as my takeoff
roll progressed. I lifted off around 15-16 gph and decided to take it around
the pattern. As I climbed through the crosswind to downwind turn I noted that
the flow was in the 18.5gph range, RPM was at 2700, and EGTs were low 1300's.
After a few more loops around the pattern everything seemed to be working as
expected. I took it out of the pattern and dialed it into my normal cruse configuration
which is typically 75% power at 2250 RPM and leaned to about 1425
on the hottest EGT. Everything sounded and felt fine. Flow was right at 9.5
GPH per usual.
>
>The only weird thing I noticed was at about 1700 RPM. When I turn from Downwind
to Base and go from idle to about 2000 RPM like I usually do, right about 1700
RPM the engine kind of sags and then picks back up. It is very repeatable.
Strangely there is no sag on the ground after a touch and go when I push the
throttle in fast going from idle to full power anymore like there was with the
old carb.
>
>Does anyone have any idea what that sag at 1700 is? Is there a nurd knob on the
carb for this specifically?
>
>Thanks again for the great feedback!
>
>Matt Dralle
>
>
>At 02:38 PM 12/18/2015 Friday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>>I'm still chasing down this weird problem with low fuel flow rates on the RV-6.
I've replaced the mechanical fuel pump and got a rebuilt 4-5 carburetor, both
of which were well over do for replacement/overhaul anyway. I haven't put
the cowling back on yet, but I did a static run up to about 2350-2400 and am
seeing about 9gph, which seems low to me?
>>
>>I pulled the fuel line off the carburetor and turned the electric fuel pump on
and saw about 21 GPH flow. Is that considered "normal" or too low?
>>
>>Thanks for the feedback,
>>
>>Matt
>
>-
>Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O-360 Fuel Flow Rate |
It's just the engineer in me, but I always like to do post mortems with failed
components. In the case of the pump, I would want to understand what in the pump
caused the blockage or failure to pump per spec. In the case of the carb
I would want to understand if the main jet, float, filter or ??? were hosed.
-GV
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 22, 2015 12:21 pm
Subject: RV-List: Re: Lycoming O-360 Fuel Flow Rate
Well, it was probably the fuel pump. I think my flow rates right after replacing
the fuel pump (but before I replaced the carb) were probably alright as they
were similar to what I saw after the new carb. But, it was time for a new carb
anyway, so I guess it worked out. Btw, as if all of this debacle wasn't frustrating
enough, last weekend while trying to test all of this, the battery
went dead. Checking the logs it was 36 months ago since I replaced it the last
time. Guess that's about right. Sigh. Is it time to fly it yet? I've been
working on it enough lately. ;-)
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 210+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only.
At 10:24 AM 12/21/2015 Monday, you wrote:
>So what did you do to fix the problem Matt?
>
>Harry Crosby
>
>
>----------
>From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
>To: "RV-List" , LycomingEngines-list(at)matronics.com, rv6-list(at)matronics.com,
rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2015 12:44:41 PM
>Subject: RV-List: Re: Lycoming O-360 Fuel Flow Rate
>
>
>Thank you to everyone that responded!! There were some great comments that got
me going down the right path.
>
>Last night I got the cowling back on and took the RV-6 out on the runway and ran
it up to full power with the intent of carefully watching the flow rate and
aborting the take off if the flow wasn't sufficiently high enough. I'm happy
to report that the flow rate climbed nicely up though the teens as my takeoff
roll progressed. I lifted off around 15-16 gph and decided to take it around
the pattern. As I climbed through the crosswind to downwind turn I noted that
the flow was in the 18.5gph range, RPM was at 2700, and EGTs were low 1300's.
After a few more loops around the pattern everything seemed to be working as
expected. I took it out of the pattern and dialed it into my normal cruse configuration
which is typically 75% power at 2250 RPM and leaned to about 1425
on the hottest EGT. Everything sounded and felt fine. Flow was right at 9.5
GPH per usual.
>
>The only weird thing I noticed was at about 1700 RPM. When I turn from Downwind
to Base and go from idle to about 2000 RPM like I usually do, right about 1700
RPM the engine kind of sags and then picks back up. It is very repeatable.
Strangely there is no sag on the ground after a touch and go when I push the
throttle in fast going from idle to full power anymore like there was with the
old carb.
>
>Does anyone have any idea what that sag at 1700 is? Is there a nurd knob on the
carb for this specifically?
>
>Thanks again for the great feedback!
>
>Matt Dralle
>
>
>At 02:38 PM 12/18/2015 Friday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>>I'm still chasing down this weird problem with low fuel flow rates on the RV-6.
I've replaced the mechanical fuel pump and got a rebuilt 4-5 carburetor, both
of which were well over do for replacement/overhaul anyway. I haven't put
the cowling back on yet, but I did a static run up to about 2350-2400 and am
seeing about 9gph, which seems low to me?
>>
>>I pulled the fuel line off the carburetor and turned the electric fuel pump on
and saw about 21 GPH flow. Is that considered "normal" or too low?
>>
>>Thanks for the feedback,
>>
>>Matt
>
>-
>Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | FS new Slick 4372 & 4370 plus harnesses and plugs |
Removed from new Van's IO-390. Engine never run (other than the factor
run). Includes eight Champion REB37E plugs, impulse coupler, gear and
coupler standoff ring for the 4372 mag.
Total cost of buying from Aircraft Spruce would be $2800+ (including the two
$150 core charges). Will sell as a package for $2200.
Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fwd: Matt Dralle (list admin) |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Retrying to a single list each time; first attempt at multiple lists
seems to have failed.
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Matt Dralle (list admin)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:10:57 -0600
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
, kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Just saw a post on the VAF forum that Matt had a stroke yesterday. The
post quoted his facebook page:
/Matt Update: He is responding to comments being made by squeezing
Katie's hand and he was able to answer his age by using his one hand.
All early indicators are that he is doing ok.
Katie sends her thanks for the prayers and that they are definitely helping.
/
Please keep him in your thoughts and prayers, and remember that he won't
be able to deal with list maintenance issues for some time.
I'm trying to send this to the RV, aeroelectric, and kolb lists. If
you're a member of additional lists, it might be good to pass it on.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Collins" <collins04(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | RE: RV-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/31/15 |
I am very sorry to hear of this and I/we hope things go well for Matt.
Paul Collins MD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV-List Digest
Server
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 1:03 AM
Subject: RV-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/31/15
*
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Today's Message Index:
March 16, 2015 - January 15, 2016
RV-Archive.digest.vol-vv