RV10-Archive.digest.vol-ab
July 21, 2004 - March 23, 2005
Hi Scott, I recieved my fuselage last Fri. The appx dimensions were
5'(H)x4'(W)x8'(L) and weighs about 590lbs. I parked it in my driveway,
opened it up and stored the contents in my garage. Everything is fairly
manageable, however ,the cabin top is included and it is awkward. It's appx
3x4x7 and is the largest piece in the box. I just managed to squeeze it
through the front door and lean it up against a wall. Vans recommended
keeping it out of the heat as much as possible. I had some parts and
hardware missing ( items not on the inventory, but in the plans). I talked
to vans yesterday and there working on it. For example, right side brakes
are standard with the 10. I only recieved two rudder pedals and two master
cyl, yet got other parts for the right side. I'm already into the first few
pages and have discovered hardware callouts ( special screws) that are in
the plans but not on the inventory list and I didn't get them. I don't mean
to sound critical, just a heads up in case you discover the same. For what
its worth, start slowly on this kit. I was so anxious to get started after a
few months of waiting that i made a few minor mistakes the first day. The
worst part is that they were on that precious fuselage spar. the first few
steps are to modify it!! (yikes). It's not easy to remedy since those spars
are matched to each other. By the way, you get windows too! Happy building.
Mark Chamberlain ( Temecula, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer(at)verizon.net> |
Thanks for the message Randy! I talked to Vans this morning about just
ordering some of the flat head screws called out on page 25-4 (fig2) that
weren't in my parts or on the inventory list. They were unable to find any
even though they are listed on " the LIST ". I found that a little odd. Oh
well, did you get those screws in your parts or did they send them at a
later time? As far as the plans go, i guess we're supposed to be seasoned
builders by now and able to handle the increased complexity. However, i
agree that it is more difficult to get any natural flow going while working
and reading through these latest plans. Take care, send some pics if you get
a chance. Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy's Abros mail" <randy(at)abros.com> |
I received the screws and one other part that was missing (sent me 2 rights
an 0 lefts). Other than the bag 1396 missing several small parts which were
picked up for me on Monday and the brake/ rudder peddles missing which we
noticed last night I am complete as far as I know. Randy,40006
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark
Chamberlain
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuselage
Thanks for the message Randy! I talked to Vans this morning about just
ordering some of the flat head screws called out on page 25-4 (fig2) that
weren't in my parts or on the inventory list. They were unable to find any
even though they are listed on " the LIST ". I found that a little odd. Oh
well, did you get those screws in your parts or did they send them at a
later time? As far as the plans go, i guess we're supposed to be seasoned
builders by now and able to handle the increased complexity. However, i
agree that it is more difficult to get any natural flow going while working
and reading through these latest plans. Take care, send some pics if you get
a chance. Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com> |
Randy, where are you uploading your pictures? Website?
Scott Schmidt
USSynthetic Product Manager
1260 South 1600 West
Orem UT 84058
Phone: 801-235-9001
Fax: 801-235-9141
Cell: 801-319-3094
sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy's Abros
mail
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuselage
I second that Mark. I had the same issue with parts missing as you and
have
received most of them so far. We had an accident with my Firewall and
had
to buy a new one. I was 107.00. They told us that a new epoxy lid is
4000.00. Don't break it. I am uploading some photos of my progress on
the
fuse kit. The plans are 189 pages or so on the fuse kit. In working
through them I think that if they had use 250 pages or so there would be
less steps combined on each page and the clarity of the tail and wing
instructions would come through. I have found the previous plans VERY
EASY
TO FOLLOW as long as you took your time and understood each step as you
went. The fuse plans don't make things as easy. Go very slow! I was
tripped up by the direction of the 470 series rivets on the rear spar
bars.
As it turns out it doesn't make any difference. I am to the point were I
can
see this fuse taking shape. Randy 40006.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark
Chamberlain
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuselage
<10flyer(at)verizon.net>
Hi Scott, I recieved my fuselage last Fri. The appx dimensions were
5'(H)x4'(W)x8'(L) and weighs about 590lbs. I parked it in my driveway,
opened it up and stored the contents in my garage. Everything is fairly
manageable, however ,the cabin top is included and it is awkward. It's
appx
3x4x7 and is the largest piece in the box. I just managed to squeeze it
through the front door and lean it up against a wall. Vans recommended
keeping it out of the heat as much as possible. I had some parts and
hardware missing ( items not on the inventory, but in the plans). I
talked
to vans yesterday and there working on it. For example, right side
brakes
are standard with the 10. I only recieved two rudder pedals and two
master
cyl, yet got other parts for the right side. I'm already into the first
few
pages and have discovered hardware callouts ( special screws) that are
in
the plans but not on the inventory list and I didn't get them. I don't
mean
to sound critical, just a heads up in case you discover the same. For
what
its worth, start slowly on this kit. I was so anxious to get started
after a
few months of waiting that i made a few minor mistakes the first day.
The
worst part is that they were on that precious fuselage spar. the first
few
steps are to modify it!! (yikes). It's not easy to remedy since those
spars
are matched to each other. By the way, you get windows too! Happy
building.
Mark Chamberlain ( Temecula, CA)
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | RV-10 fuselage kit |
For those of you already pounding through the first few sections of the Fuse kit,
I stumbled across another small omition in parts today. I was collecting the
parts for Sec 26 when i noticed that the seatbelt attach parts ( fwd and aft
seats ) on the plans have a joggle in them while the parts i recieved are all
flat. I talked to Vans today and they are looking into it and agree that the
attach part should be joggled to allow the belt to be sandwhiched between the
bracket and the structure. I thought about bending them myself, however they suggested
that the bolt hole might not line up with the other bracket. This all
but shoots down the first page or two of Sec 26 until you get the right parts.
Vans said they would know more on Monday. I guess i'll start the firewall section
and come back to this later . Just a heads up!! Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <randy(at)abros.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 fuselage kit |
Hello Mark and group. We saw the same problem 2 weekends ago. I made the
decision to joggle them my self using the plans a to were to make the
joggle. When we got done we inserted a 1/4" drill bit into the bolt hole
and it fit fine. I told Scott Risen about it last week and he said "we
supplied the drawing so you could make the joggle didn't we." Nope. The
way I saw it is they are going to send me some new joggled ones or provide
the plans for them. Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 fuselage kit
>
> For those of you already pounding through the first few sections of the
Fuse kit, I stumbled across another small omition in parts today. I was
collecting the parts for Sec 26 when i noticed that the seatbelt attach
parts ( fwd and aft seats ) on the plans have a joggle in them while the
parts i recieved are all flat. I talked to Vans today and they are looking
into it and agree that the attach part should be joggled to allow the belt
to be sandwhiched between the bracket and the structure. I thought about
bending them myself, however they suggested that the bolt hole might not
line up with the other bracket. This all but shoots down the first page or
two of Sec 26 until you get the right parts. Vans said they would know more
on Monday. I guess i'll start the firewall section and come back to this
later . Just a heads up!! Mark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
Matt,
Can you change my E-mail to ricksked(at)earthlink.net. This email is being cancelled
for a new ISP.
Thanks,
Rick Sked
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <morgan(at)heifercreek.com> |
| Subject: | Death of Morgan Hetrick |
Dear RV 10 list members:
Morgan Hetrick who was subscribed to this list burned to death subsequent to
a crash of a Beech Muscateer on July 14th, 2004. Morgan had over 35,000
hours and held every ground and air instructor's tickets issued by the FAA
except balloon instructor. He was president of EAA 1152.
I would also appreciate it if someone could unsubscribe him from the list.
thank you. Joyce Hetrick
----- Original Message -----
From: <rsked(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly
Posting]
>
> Matt,
>
> Can you change my E-mail to ricksked(at)earthlink.net. This email is being
cancelled for a new ISP.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rick Sked
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Brinlee" <abfbrinlee(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | rv10 cost to build |
Hey RV-10 builders.... I have run the numbers and with a 235hp engine and basic
avionics I am coming up with 65 to 75k to build a 10... Maybe I am dreaming.
Any thoughts?? I am getting ready to buy a 7 kit but trying to find a way to
swing the 10 kit.
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rv10 cost to build |
Doug,
Would you be able to share yor "numbers". I have been trying to work
out the overall cost myself.
Ed
Doug Brinlee wrote:
>
>Hey RV-10 builders.... I have run the numbers and with a 235hp engine and basic
avionics I am coming up with 65 to 75k to build a 10... Maybe I am dreaming.
Any thoughts?? I am getting ready to buy a 7 kit but trying to find a way to
swing the 10 kit.
>Doug
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Brinlee" <abfbrinlee(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | cost to build numbers |
Ok,
Here is what I have.... I took the rv-7 cost estimator and put estimated cost for
the 10 and came up with the following:
kit total slow build 31,000+ engine 235hp 540 mid time 15,000 + Fix pitch catto
prop 2500.00 + firwall forward 4000 + basic avionics and radios 6500.00 + lights
1000 + basic electrical system 1000 + Interior 1000.00 we can do interior
ourselves+ tools 2200.00 64,200 + paint 2500.00 to 5000.00 66700 to 69200 total...
I have been told that you can set up a 540 as fixed pitch..... but not sure and
have someone checking into it. Dont see why the 10 could not fly on a fixed pitch
catto prop with 235hp. I could be totally wrong about that... If I find
the numbers add up I plan to build a 10.
take care,
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cost to build numbers |
Doug,
You may well end up with one of the cheapest RV-10's that flies.
From what we know know about kit prices, the first 3 kits will
run you ~ $3K + 7.25K + 12.1K --- roughly $22,500. The 3rd kit
is probably going to be a bit higher than the others...maybe
$8000-is? At the show, I asked about FirewallForward and it sounds
like that will be in the few thousands also. So, $35,000 is probably
more like it.
You're one of the first that I've seen mention that they're not
going either balls-to-the-wall with the 260Hp, or to a new, but
alternative engine (deltahawk, innodyn, or other). Nothing wrong
with a used mid-time, but I'm hearing more people talk about new.
Haven't heard anyone else really talk about Fixed Pitch props either,
and we kind of chuckled after the RV-10 Forum at OSH as to how many
VFR only -10's there will be....most people seem to be thinking a
real IFR cruiser.
Nothing wrong with your plans....it's just that you're seeming
to be in a slightly different direction than many others.
There's no autopilot, and many other things on your list.
My plan is more like:
$40k with QB on the fuse only for the airframe.
$38K for a new engine with dual lightspeed ignition with extras
$10K for a c/s prop
$59.5K for a pretty decked out panel
Quite a bit different, and even more than I expected originally.
I guess I'd say make yourself aware that you may end up 20% or more
overbudget by the time you get done, because your opinions may
change as time goes on. I see Van's demo -10 as a very basic
plane in most respects...not much trim to it at all. Yet even
they are pushing toward the $100K mark. I'm guessing that a large
percentage of the builders are going into this expecting that they
won't get it flying before they've poured in at least $80-90K....
anyone else want to comment on that to verify?
Tim
Doug Brinlee wrote:
>
> Ok, Here is what I have.... I took the rv-7 cost estimator and put
> estimated cost for the 10 and came up with the following: kit total
> slow build 31,000+ engine 235hp 540 mid time 15,000 + Fix pitch
> catto prop 2500.00 + firwall forward 4000 + basic avionics and radios
> 6500.00 + lights 1000 + basic electrical system 1000 + Interior
> 1000.00 we can do interior ourselves+ tools 2200.00 64,200 + paint
> 2500.00 to 5000.00 66700 to 69200 total... I have been told that you
> can set up a 540 as fixed pitch..... but not sure and have someone
> checking into it. Dont see why the 10 could not fly on a fixed pitch
> catto prop with 235hp. I could be totally wrong about that... If I
> find the numbers add up I plan to build a 10. take care, Doug
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rv10 cost to build |
That much can be spent on a 7 easy, with out even trying. How are you
calculating the numbers?
>
>Hey RV-10 builders.... I have run the numbers and with a 235hp engine and
>basic avionics I am coming up with 65 to 75k to build a 10... Maybe I am
>dreaming. Any thoughts?? I am getting ready to buy a 7 kit but trying to
>find a way to swing the 10 kit.
>Doug
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | rv10 cost to build |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
Doug,
There are certainly tales of folks building 2 place RVs for $30K but it
must require tremendous discipline and luck to do it. I think that the
middle range for 2 place RVs is close to the range that you're thinking
and the kits cost almost $20K less.
It might be helpful to know what price tag you're associating with the
various components for a potential reality check. My own preliminary
planning numbers said that I'd be around $110K with a basic but solid
IFR panel.
Since Van's doesn't have an estimator for an RV-10, here was my original
budget allocation before I started the project:
Kit: $35K
Engine: $30K (Aerosport IO-540-D4A5)
Prop: $4.5K (CS)
Misc FW fwd: $5.5K (includes governor, hoses, fuel pump, baffling,
hardware, etc)
Eng Instruments: $3.7K (ACS 2002 or equiv)
Avionics/gyros: $22K (electric gyros, nav/com, gps/com, TruTrak 2 axis
AP, etc)
Misc Airframe: $2K (lighting, heated pitot, antennae, wire, misc
hardware)
Other Misc: $7K (interior finish, paint, hardware options,
misc electric, misc supplies)
-------------------------------------
Total $109.7K
I would guess that with some work you could find a mid-time engine/prop
and accessories for half of what I budgeted. You could also go with all
steam gauges and a minimal day only VFR bird and reduce those costs.
Based on my track record so far (fuselage kit on its way) I can also say
that at every step of the way it's easy to spend money on "stuff" that
was unplanned.
I've since refined my wish list (and original budget) and will exceed
the above easily. It's best to go into this with your eyes wide open.
Stretching out time for purchase of components is probably more
realistic than assuming REALLY bare bones when trying to fit it into
your budget.
Bob #40105
>
>Hey RV-10 builders.... I have run the numbers and with a 235hp engine
>and
>basic avionics I am coming up with 65 to 75k to build a 10... Maybe I
am
>dreaming. Any thoughts?? I am getting ready to buy a 7 kit but trying
to
>find a way to swing the 10 kit.
>Doug
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Brinlee" <abfbrinlee(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | rv-10 cost to build |
Bob,
Thanks for your cost estimate..sounds more realistic..
I think I should build what I would enjoy most when complete. Even if it takes
6 to 7 years... That is the burning question.. I could do a 7 and be flying
basic VFR in 4 years. Thing is, the kids will be gone and done with college in
5 years. I could build the 10 and take my time,,, do a really nice job, have
the airframe paid for in 4 years then go nuts on the engine and instruments
over the next 3 years...or so...
Just have to decide which plane is best fit...
Wife likes the 10 and says she would help me build that one. I like the 7 for
aerobatics and sporty look.
I will be 50 or so when I get either in the air... The 10 looks like it would be
the best vacation plane..for long trips...
I also have a buddy building a 10 and he is on the 7 year plan..
Got long winded here... take care and thanks for the advise..
Looks like I am leaning toward the 10
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | rv-10 cost to build |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
Doug,
No problem. You might also join the RV-10 Yahoo group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/ - that's where most of the -10
builders seem to be. I went through similar reasoning to yours. Kids
will be out of the house by the time I'm in the air but went for the -10
because I wanted the extra room and reserve payload capacity.
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Brinlee
Subject: RV10-List: rv-10 cost to build
Bob,
Thanks for your cost estimate..sounds more realistic..
I think I should build what I would enjoy most when complete. Even if
it takes 6 to 7 years... That is the burning question.. I could do a 7
and be flying basic VFR in 4 years. Thing is, the kids will be gone and
done with college in 5 years. I could build the 10 and take my time,,,
do a really nice job, have the airframe paid for in 4 years then go nuts
on the engine and instruments over the next 3 years...or so... Just have
to decide which plane is best fit... Wife likes the 10 and says she
would help me build that one. I like the 7 for aerobatics and sporty
look. I will be 50 or so when I get either in the air... The 10 looks
like it would be the best vacation plane..for long trips... I also have
a buddy building a 10 and he is on the 7 year plan.. Got long winded
here... take care and thanks for the advise.. Looks like I am leaning
toward the 10 Doug
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PhilWhite9(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV10-cost to build numbers |
Doug, Ed, Tim: My Excel list totals: $59,050 for
1. Kit: $3,000 Emp; $7,400 wing + $4,000 QB; $12,100 Fuse; $12,400 est for
finish kit = $38,750 to Van's.
2. Mazda 20B wankel rotary engine $3,000; Tracy Crook's gearbox +
electronics for engine $6,600; Catto prop I guessed at $1,200 (but I presume your
2,400 is more accurate) = $10,800 for a 270-300 hp engine.
3. Panel w/TruTrak autopilot, 3 steam guages, AV/MAP GPS, Reserve Lift
Indicator, ELT, Xpdr, Comm, etc. Not able to fly IFR, but allowing room to add
later = $9,500
I noticed I haven't included $ for alternator(s) and several other misc
items, so it will exceed $60K for sure. I'll paint the fiberglass parts
myself, and polish the aluminum. May be the cheapest -10 yet?
Phil White, Willowbrook, IL 630/325-4680
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rv-10 cost to build |
Not to steer anyone away from a -10, but, it sounds like if you're
really going to take your time and not be done until your kids are
out of college, you may not need a -10 for your vacations. I think
you could do a trip in a -7 and have a blast. I'm building a -10
because I like to fill my seats, and I have a 3 and 5 year old.
If I had kids that wouldn't be traveling with me, I'd probably be
building a -7 for the aerobatics and cost. I guess I'd say
you should really focus on the type of flying you really think
you'll do, and who will you be taking. I'm building a station
wagon. If you were driving 1200 miles by car, what would you
be driving, and who would you be taking in 5 years?
Tim
Doug Brinlee wrote:
>
> Bob,
> Thanks for your cost estimate..sounds more realistic..
> I think I should build what I would enjoy most when complete. Even if it takes
6 to 7 years... That is the burning question.. I could do a 7 and be flying
basic VFR in 4 years. Thing is, the kids will be gone and done with college
in 5 years. I could build the 10 and take my time,,, do a really nice job, have
the airframe paid for in 4 years then go nuts on the engine and instruments
over the next 3 years...or so...
> Just have to decide which plane is best fit...
> Wife likes the 10 and says she would help me build that one. I like the 7 for
aerobatics and sporty look.
> I will be 50 or so when I get either in the air... The 10 looks like it would
be the best vacation plane..for long trips...
> I also have a buddy building a 10 and he is on the 7 year plan..
> Got long winded here... take care and thanks for the advise..
> Looks like I am leaning toward the 10
> Doug
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | rv-10 cost to build |
| From: | "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com> |
Here is an estimate I did a few months ago. I think the median for an
RV-10 will be around $100,000. It will be very difficult to build it
much under $75,000 in my opinion. Planes are like buying a boat or
building a house. You always end up spending 25 - 30% more than you
expected.
Scott Schmidt
USSynthetic Product Manager
1260 South 1600 West
Orem UT 84058
Phone: 801-235-9001
Fax: 801-235-9141
Cell: 801-319-3094
sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
(US SSA)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: rv-10 cost to build
Doug,
No problem. You might also join the RV-10 Yahoo group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/ - that's where most of the -10
builders seem to be. I went through similar reasoning to yours. Kids
will be out of the house by the time I'm in the air but went for the -10
because I wanted the extra room and reserve payload capacity.
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Brinlee
Subject: RV10-List: rv-10 cost to build
Bob,
Thanks for your cost estimate..sounds more realistic..
I think I should build what I would enjoy most when complete. Even if
it takes 6 to 7 years... That is the burning question.. I could do a 7
and be flying basic VFR in 4 years. Thing is, the kids will be gone and
done with college in 5 years. I could build the 10 and take my time,,,
do a really nice job, have the airframe paid for in 4 years then go nuts
on the engine and instruments over the next 3 years...or so... Just have
to decide which plane is best fit... Wife likes the 10 and says she
would help me build that one. I like the 7 for aerobatics and sporty
look. I will be 50 or so when I get either in the air... The 10 looks
like it would be the best vacation plane..for long trips... I also have
a buddy building a 10 and he is on the 7 year plan.. Got long winded
here... take care and thanks for the advise.. Looks like I am leaning
toward the 10 Doug
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | rv-10 cost to build |
| From: | "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com> |
My spreadsheet did not attach. Sorry.
Scott Schmidt
USSynthetic Product Manager
1260 South 1600 West
Orem UT 84058
Phone: 801-235-9001
Fax: 801-235-9141
Cell: 801-319-3094
sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Subject: RE: RV10-List: rv-10 cost to build
Here is an estimate I did a few months ago. I think the median for an
RV-10 will be around $100,000. It will be very difficult to build it
much under $75,000 in my opinion. Planes are like buying a boat or
building a house. You always end up spending 25 - 30% more than you
expected.
Scott Schmidt
USSynthetic Product Manager
1260 South 1600 West
Orem UT 84058
Phone: 801-235-9001
Fax: 801-235-9141
Cell: 801-319-3094
sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
(US SSA)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: rv-10 cost to build
Doug,
No problem. You might also join the RV-10 Yahoo group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/ - that's where most of the -10
builders seem to be. I went through similar reasoning to yours. Kids
will be out of the house by the time I'm in the air but went for the -10
because I wanted the extra room and reserve payload capacity.
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Brinlee
Subject: RV10-List: rv-10 cost to build
Bob,
Thanks for your cost estimate..sounds more realistic..
I think I should build what I would enjoy most when complete. Even if
it takes 6 to 7 years... That is the burning question.. I could do a 7
and be flying basic VFR in 4 years. Thing is, the kids will be gone and
done with college in 5 years. I could build the 10 and take my time,,,
do a really nice job, have the airframe paid for in 4 years then go nuts
on the engine and instruments over the next 3 years...or so... Just have
to decide which plane is best fit... Wife likes the 10 and says she
would help me build that one. I like the 7 for aerobatics and sporty
look. I will be 50 or so when I get either in the air... The 10 looks
like it would be the best vacation plane..for long trips... I also have
a buddy building a 10 and he is on the 7 year plan.. Got long winded
here... take care and thanks for the advise.. Looks like I am leaning
toward the 10 Doug
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jason Rader" <jasonrader(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | rv-10 cost to build |
I'm pretty much in your boat Doug. I'm hoping to come in at ~70 if I build
it myself. If I go in with somebody though, I told my wife don't expect
much of a reduction. I also have plenty of time but will definitely need
four seats. My aughter is only two and we're hoping to have another on the
way in a couple months. Of course, it doesn't help when your wife talks you
into buying a boat, even if it is only 10k ;). But she insisted that she
have something to do on the weekends that I'm building. Hard to argue with
that.
Jason
>From: "Doug Brinlee" <abfbrinlee(at)att.net>
>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV10-List: rv-10 cost to build
>Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 10:35:03 -0500
>
>
>Bob,
>Thanks for your cost estimate..sounds more realistic..
>I think I should build what I would enjoy most when complete. Even if it
>takes 6 to 7 years... That is the burning question.. I could do a 7 and be
>flying basic VFR in 4 years. Thing is, the kids will be gone and done with
>college in 5 years. I could build the 10 and take my time,,, do a really
>nice job, have the airframe paid for in 4 years then go nuts on the engine
>and instruments over the next 3 years...or so...
>Just have to decide which plane is best fit...
>Wife likes the 10 and says she would help me build that one. I like the 7
>for aerobatics and sporty look.
>I will be 50 or so when I get either in the air... The 10 looks like it
>would be the best vacation plane..for long trips...
>I also have a buddy building a 10 and he is on the 7 year plan..
>Got long winded here... take care and thanks for the advise..
>Looks like I am leaning toward the 10
>Doug
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Firewall Sec. 27 |
For those of you not there yet, I have a heads up note to mention about the
firewall section. On page 27-4 step 6 it mentions countersinking the 4
nutplate attach holes in the 1048 L/R ribs. Looking at the drawing, I
assumed they meant the same side that all the other dimples were facing.
After doing this, I got to Sec 28 pg 28-2 step 2 and it again talked about
countersinking these holes but on the inside of the ribs. I believe these
nut plates will eventually secure the fuel lines on the inside of the ribs.
Maybe i misread something along the way, I have started and stopped this
section several times due to lack of parts. Read it carefully and interpret
it yourselves. Mark.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | MT Propeller for RV-10 |
Hi All,
MT Propeller has designed a 3 blade propeller specifically designed for the
RV-10 with a Lycoming 540 engine.
I am offering this propeller and spinner for $7,100 plus shipping and, if
applicable, sales tax.
This price is available for a short time only.
100% payment required to place order. An accepted order locks in the price.
Price subject to change without notice.
Standard propeller and spinner colors are: White, Red, Gray, Black and
Yellow.
Common blade colors are:
White blades with Red tips.
Gray blades with White tips. (Preferred for IFR aircraft.)
Black blades with Yellow tips.
Jim Ayers
Less Drag Products, Inc.
Harmon Rocket 2 OEM distributor for MT Propeller
_www.lessdrag.com_ (http://www.lessdrag.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | MT Propeller for the RV-10 |
Hi All,
I forgot to mention that the MTV-12-B propeller with spinner for the RV-10
and Lycoming 540 engine weighs about 45 pounds. I believe the Hartzell 2
blade propeller with spinner weighs around 66 pounds. Roughly 20 pounds lighter.
MT Propeller also has about the smallest and lightest governor available. I
would offer the MT Governor for $1,000. When ordered with a propeller, it
would be shipped with the propeller with no additional shipping charge.
Jim Ayers
_jim(at)lessdrag.com_ (mailto:jim(at)lessdrag.com)
Less Drag Products, Inc.
_www.lessdrag.com_ (http://www.lessdrag.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | MT Propeller for RV-10 |
| From: | "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com> |
What are the expected advantages of the 3 blade MT vs. the 2 blade Hartzell other
than weight?
What are the differences in climb? cruise? maintance? durability?
Thanks.
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Subject: RV10-List: MT Propeller for RV-10
Hi All,
MT Propeller has designed a 3 blade propeller specifically designed for the
RV-10 with a Lycoming 540 engine.
I am offering this propeller and spinner for $7,100 plus shipping and, if
applicable, sales tax.
This price is available for a short time only.
100% payment required to place order. An accepted order locks in the price.
Price subject to change without notice.
Standard propeller and spinner colors are: White, Red, Gray, Black and
Yellow.
Common blade colors are:
White blades with Red tips.
Gray blades with White tips. (Preferred for IFR aircraft.)
Black blades with Yellow tips.
Jim Ayers
Less Drag Products, Inc.
Harmon Rocket 2 OEM distributor for MT Propeller
_www.lessdrag.com_ (http://www.lessdrag.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV10-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/22/04 |
Hi Scott,
Since Van has the only RV-10 flying, and hasn't had time (or whatever) to do
any performance comparisons, I don't have an empirical data answer.
Assuming the MT and brand H propeller are designed for the performance
conditions, they should performance about the same. The assumption here is that
brand H was designed to the Lycoming 540 engine on a RV-10.
In general, the 2 blade propeller cruising at high RPM at, or below, 3,000'
MSL should have the cruise performance advantage.
At about 7,000' MSL and above, the 3 blade propeller should have the cruise
performance advantage.
The MT propeller requires the normal leading edge inspection during the walk
around.
There is no required maintenance at the 12 month condition inspection.
Both the MT and brand H propellers have passed the same testing requirements
for certification. They are equally good in rain and ice impact. (I sure
hope I never have an opportunity to check out ice impact in actual flight.
The leading edge on the RV's probably won't pass that test.)
If you plan to fly your RV-10 IFR, Gray colored blades are the preferred
color.
On brand H, as the paint at the very leading edge of the blade is removed by
the rain, it exposed the aluminum which is the same color.
On the MT propeller blades painted Gray, as the rain causes the same thing
to happen, it exposes the Gray primer which is the same color.
One of the items you didn't ask about was cockpit comfort. The 3 blade
propeller removes a 2nd order harmonic that is present with a 2 blade propeller.
This I have experienced myself in a Harmon Rocket 2. The 3 blade propeller
was significantly smoother than the 2 blade propellers. (The performance
testing involved a 3 blade propeller and two different 2 blade propellers.)
I hope this helps.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
Less Drag Products, Inc.
In a message dated 08/22/2004 11:58:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
rv10-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Scott Schmidt"
What are the expected advantages of the 3 blade MT vs. the 2 blade Hartzell
other
than weight?
What are the differences in climb? cruise? maintance? durability?
Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Freedom Flyers Website |
| From: | "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com> |
Hello, I want to announce a new website that I feel will increase the
efficiency and effectiveness of our communication.
I have called the site Freedom Flyers. www.freedomflyers.com
<http://www.freedomflyers.com/>
Freedom Flyers is an aviation forum with a specific section for
homebuilders. As an RV-10 builder myself I wanted a system that is
better than the standard e-mail groups. Freedom Flyers makes it very
easy to post threads, answer threads, post pictures, links, and search
the site for information.
The site is free and there are no pop-up ads.
In the next couple of days I will be adding some more instructions under
the section, "How did you do that?"
I am just informing the RV-10 builders right now in hopes of receiving
some feedback.
I hope you all register and try it out. I will guarantee that once you
use it, post some pictures, and more people become users it will be a
great help to you in your building process.
- Scott Schmidt
________________________________________________________________________________
rv7-list(at)matronics.com, rv10-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com,
rv3-list(at)matronics.com, rv4-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | Richard Scott <rscott(at)cascadeaccess.com> |
| Subject: | Van's Homecoming-- Where to eat |
1.70 SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS Similar addresses in recipient list
Scrumptous breakfast both Saturday & Sunday will be served right at
Van's--pancakes, eggs, ham, sausage, bacon, coffee & orange juice. And
lunch on Saturday, burgers, corn on the cob.
Served by EAA Chapter 902. Don't miss out!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Land Shorter <landshorter2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | New product announcement: affordable VG's |
rvcanada-list(at)matronics.com, rveurope-list(at)matronics.com,
rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com, sailplane-list(at)matronics.com,
seaplane-list(at)matronics.com, skymaster-list(at)matronics.com,
smithmini-list(at)matronics.com
Hey folks,
I double checked and Matt Dralle's earlier post says it's OK to post about new
aviation products as long as the message doesn't come off as having a "flavor"
of "traditional spam". Don't worry I'm not going to try to sell you anything
that supposedly makes any of your body parts larger (or smaller) and this product
is directly aviation related :) I'm just an airplane builder, owner, pilot,
and aviation nut who wants to tell you where you can find more information about
a great new product.
I've been selling kits of vortex generators (VG's) for only $95 and my customers are telling me they really like the performance gains they're seeing. VG's are great for reducing stall speeds and allow you to land slower, shorter, and safer. I invite you to check out my site at www.landshorter.com and see what you think. My VG's can be quickly installed for testing using removable double-stick tape and come with a 100% money-back guarantee so why not try them out on your plane? You'll be really glad you did :)
Thanks and let's keep 'em flying!
Joa Harrison
The VG Guy
www.landshorter.com
1-877-272-1414 (toll free)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | MT Propeller for RV-10 - group buy offer |
Hi All,
MT Propeller has a 76" diameter 3 blade constant speed propeller available
that is specifically designed for the RV-10 with the Lycoming 540 engine.
This MT Propeller has a list price of $9,380.
Van's Aircraft offers a similar MT propeller designed for the Lycoming 360
for $8,060.
I am offering this propeller as a group buy for $7,100 plus shipping and any
applicable sales tax.
If you order an MT hydraulic governor at the same time, I am offering the
governor for $1,000 plus any applicable sales tax. The governor would be
shipped with the propeller with no additional shipping charge.
The MT Propeller includes a factory installed 13" diameter spinner set for a
cowl spacing of 1.5". (Cowl spacing is the distance from the front of the
cowl to the propeller hub mounting surface on the face of the ring gear.)
The MT Propeller and spinner are available in five (5) standard colors:
White, Red, Black, Yellow and Gray.
The spinner can be delivered in primer only.
I already have the first name of the 16 required for this group buy.
If you have any questions, please feel free to Email me, or call (805)
795-5377.
Jim Ayers
Less Drag Products, Inc. - Harmon Rocket 2 OEM distributor for MT Propeller
1921 Dorrit Street
Newbury Park, Ca. 91320-3408
(805) 795-5377
RV-3 sn50 N47RV Maroon Marauder LOM engine MT 3 blade electric CS propeller
HR2 sn 269 in work Lycoming IO-540 engine MT 3 blade hydraulic CS propeller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | MT Propeller for RV-10 - group buy offer |
Jim,
Is the prop and governor shipping now? If so,would you accept a depositto hold
this price until say February 2005?
I'm waiting on QB fuse now which should be here in October. Have ordered Aero Sport
IO 540 for delivery early next year.
Mark
From: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Subject: RV10-List: MT Propeller for RV-10 - group buy offer
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:00:59 EDT
-- RV10-List message posted by: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Hi All,
MT Propeller has a 76" diameter 3 blade constant speed propelleravailable
that is specifically designed for the RV-10 with the Lycoming 540engine.
This MT Propeller has a list price of $9,380.
Van's Aircraft offers a similar MT propeller designed for the Lycoming360
for $8,060.
I am offering this propeller as a group buy for $7,100 plus shipping andany
applicable sales tax.
If you order an MT hydraulic governor at the same time, I am offering the
governor for $1,000 plus any applicable sales tax.The governor would be
shipped with the propeller with no additional shipping charge.
The MT Propeller includes a factory installed 13" diameter spinner set fora
cowl spacing of 1.5".(Cowl spacing is the distance from the front ofthe
cowl to the propeller hub mounting surface on the face of the ringgear.)
The MT Propeller and spinner are available in five (5) standardcolors:
White, Red, Black, Yellow and Gray.
The spinner can be delivered in primer only.
I already have the first name of the 16 required for this group buy.
If you have any questions, please feel free to Email me, or call (805)
795-5377.
Jim Ayers
Less Drag Products, Inc. - Harmon Rocket 2 OEM distributor for MTPropeller
1921 Dorrit Street
Newbury Park, Ca. 91320-3408
(805) 795-5377
RV-3 sn50 N47RV Maroon Marauder LOM engine MT 3 blade electric CSpropeller
HR2 sn 269 in work Lycoming IO-540 engine MT 3 blade hydraulic CSpropeller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV10-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 09/10/04 |
Hi Mark,
I don't expect to be able to place the group buy order until sometime
between November and January.
I will not be collecting any money until it's time to order the propellers.
Normal delivery is 8 to 12 weeks after receipt of order.
I am just collecting the names of people who are interested. I would be
happy to put your name on the RV-10 group buy list. Please include your RV-10
builder number.
When I have more than 16 names on the list, I'll contact all of those people
at that time.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
Less Drag Products, Inc. - An MT Propeller distributor
In a message dated 09/10/2004 11:58:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
rv10-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Ritter"
Jim,
Is the prop and governor shipping now? If so,would you accept a depositto
hold
this price until say February 2005?
I'm waiting on QB fuse now which should be here in October. Have ordered
Aero Sport
IO 540 for delivery early next year.
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV10-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 09/10/04 |
Jim,
I'm interested in the MT prop so pleaseadd my name to the list. My builder number
is 40043.
Mark
From: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV10-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 09/10/04
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 10:29:50 EDT
-- RV10-List message posted by: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Hi Mark,
I don't expect to be able to place the group buy order until sometime
between November and January.
I will not be collecting any money until it's time to order thepropellers.
Normal delivery is 8 to 12 weeks after receipt of order.
I am just collecting the names of people who are interested.I wouldbe
happy to put your name on the RV-10 group buy list.Please includeyour RV-10
builder number.
When I have more than 16 names on the list, I'll contact all of thosepeople
at that time.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
Less Drag Products, Inc. - An MT Propeller distributor
In a message dated 09/10/2004 11:58:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
rv10-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
--RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Ritter"mritter509(at)msn.com
Jim,
Is the prop and governorshipping now? If so,would you accept a depositto
hold
this price until sayFebruary 2005?
I'm waiting on QB fuse now which should be here inOctober. Have ordered
Aero Sport
IO 540 for delivery early nextyear.
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Bob Olds ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Bob Olds
Subject: Vortex generators on RV-4
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Oldsfolks@aol.com.09.11.2004/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV-10 MT Propeller data |
Hi All,
MT Propeller is a certified propeller manufacturer. MT Propeller is unique
as a constant speed propeller manufacturer, since they custom design the
propeller blade for the engine, airframe and expected performance requirements.
And this custom designed blade analysis is backed by flight vibration
analysis and performance flight testing.
RV-10 MT Propeller designation - MTV-12-B/193-53
The RV-10 MTV-12 propeller is a 76" diameter 3 blade propeller.
The blades have the symitar shape typical of the MT Propeller -5x series
propellers. (The -5x number is the last digits in the MT Propeller designation.)
The normal blade design uses five airfoils from root to tip of the blade. A
CNC program is used to manufacture the blades. The computer programmed
blade shape allows a smooth transition through all five airfoils from the blade
root to the tip. (Did anyone hear about a NEW "blended airfoil" blade design
technology?)
The MTV-12 hub has recently completed testing to a 300 horsepower level,
from a 260 horsepower level, on reciprocating engines.
The propeller assembly includes the 13" diameter spinner installed at the
factory. The spinner is made of Kevlar with an Epoxy resin. Although the
spinner dome is very light, the front and rear spinner bulkheads are very stout
aluminum bulkheads.
By mounting the front of the engine cowl 1.5" in front of the propeller hub
mounting surface on the ring gear, the MT Propeller is a bolt on installation
to your RV-10.
The propeller assembly is available in five (5) basic colors: White, Red,
Black, Yellow and Gray.
Common combinations are:
White blades with Red tips and a White spinner. (Typical MT colors)
Black blades with Yellow tips and a Primer only spinner. (Old CAA required
propeller color with the spinner left to be painted to match the airframe
later.)
Gray blades with White tips with a White primer. (Gray blade with White tip
for aircraft that normally includes IFR flight.)
I have heard that the only flying Lycoming 540 RV-10 is to busy flying to
try different propellers.
The first MT Propeller delivery to a RV-10 customer is planned for mid
October.
Jim Ayers
Less Drag Products, Inc. - An MT Propeller distributor
RV-3 sn 50 N47RV LOM engine MTV-7-C/l175-112 propeller
(The -112 blade has a full airfoil from the blade root tapering to the tip.)
HR2 sn 269 Lycoming IO-540 engine MTV-9-B-C/C190-50a propeller
(The -50a blade is the more typical symitar shaped blade. The extra "C's"
indicate counterweighted blades for an aerobatic or racing application, and
requires a different configured hydraulic governor. 190 cm (75") diameter.)
The standard HR2 propeller from MT Propeller is a MTV-9-B/198-52.
non-counterweighted blades. -52 blade design. 198 cm (78" dia.) diameter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Stribling" <strib(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV10-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 09/11/04 |
Dear Mr. Ayers,
Please add my name to your list.
My RV -10 builders number is 40140
Thanks for doing all of us a needed service.
James L. Stribling
jlstrib(at)comcast.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of RV10-List
Digest Server
Subject: RV10-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 09/11/04
*
==================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
==================================================
Today's complete RV10-List Digest can be also be found in either
of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
version of the RV10-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list/Digest.RV10-List.2004-09-11.html
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list/Digest.RV10-List.2004-09-11.txt
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
RV10-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sat 09/11/04: 3
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:30 AM - Re: RV10-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 09/10/04
(LessDragProd(at)aol.com)
2. 04:50 PM - Re: Re: RV10-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 09/10/04 (Mark
Ritter)
3. 05:34 PM - [ Bob Olds ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
(Email List Photo Shares)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
From: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV10-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 09/10/04
Hi Mark,
I don't expect to be able to place the group buy order until sometime
between November and January.
I will not be collecting any money until it's time to order the propellers.
Normal delivery is 8 to 12 weeks after receipt of order.
I am just collecting the names of people who are interested. I would be
happy to put your name on the RV-10 group buy list. Please include your
RV-10
builder number.
When I have more than 16 names on the list, I'll contact all of those
people
at that time.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
Less Drag Products, Inc. - An MT Propeller distributor
In a message dated 09/10/2004 11:58:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
rv10-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Ritter"
Jim,
Is the prop and governor shipping now? If so,would you accept a depositto
hold
this price until say February 2005?
I'm waiting on QB fuse now which should be here in October. Have ordered
Aero Sport
IO 540 for delivery early next year.
Mark
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: RV10-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 09/10/04
Jim,
I'm interested in the MT prop so pleaseadd my name to the list. My builder
number
is 40043.
Mark
From: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV10-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 09/10/04
-- RV10-List message posted by: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Hi Mark,
I don't expect to be able to place the group buy order until sometime
between November and January.
I will not be collecting any money until it's time to order thepropellers.
Normal delivery is 8 to 12 weeks after receipt of order.
I am just collecting the names of people who are interested.I wouldbe
happy to put your name on the RV-10 group buy list.Please includeyour RV-10
builder number.
When I have more than 16 names on the list, I'll contact all of thosepeople
at that time.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
Less Drag Products, Inc. - An MT Propeller distributor
In a message dated 09/10/2004 11:58:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
rv10-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
--RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Ritter"mritter509(at)msn.com
Jim,
Is the prop and governorshipping now? If so,would you accept a depositto
hold
this price until sayFebruary 2005?
I'm waiting on QB fuse now which should be here inOctober. Have ordered
Aero Sport
IO 540 for delivery early nextyear.
Mark
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Subject: RV10-List: [ Bob Olds ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Bob Olds
Subject: Vortex generators on RV-4
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Oldsfolks@aol.com.09.11.2004/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV10-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 09/14/04 |
Hello James,
I have added your name to the RV-10 MT Propeller group buy list.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 09/14/2004 11:58:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
rv10-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "James Stribling"
Dear Mr. Ayers,
Please add my name to your list.
My RV -10 builders number is 40140
Thanks for doing all of us a needed service.
James L. Stribling
jlstrib(at)comcast.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PhilWhite9(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Need wing cradle dimensions |
Haven't received wings yet, QB due late Oct. Have time to build a wing
cradle, and have one designed after looking at pictures of several members' cradles.
Need dimensions of the cutouts to clear the wing leading edge. Don't have a
wing to measure or plans to refer to yet. I plan to make a simple rectangular
cut, then hang a fabric sling in the cutout, as I've seen in someone's design.
What width and depth is needed?
Phil White #40220 Emp finished, starting to polish skins, overhauling Mazda
20B engine.
Willowbrook, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | New page on www.LessDrag.com |
rv10-list(at)matronics.com, RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
Hi All,
I've added a new page on my website for new and used propellers being
offered for sale.
If you have a propeller you would like to sell; just send me an Email of
what you want listed.
If you are looking for a propeller, you can check the propeller page just
after antenna's under Products. There is already a Hartzell CS propeller for
a
Lycoming 320 and a Lycoming 360 listed.
_www.lessdrag.com_ (http://www.lessdrag.com)
Regards,
Jim Ayers
Less Drag products, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
Having searched far and wide for alodine in powder form, I have now
found 2 sources from other RV-10 builders, so here is a post with
info just for future reference:
----------------
Crest Industrial Chemicals, Inc
Crest 713 780-1828 or 800-833-8517 texas, 800-622-9006 US
10 lb container of powder (PCC-6) $20/lb
5 gallon container of concentrated liquid acid (Crest Acid Cleaner #12)
Price Unknown
The powder is mixed 1.2 to 2.5 ounces per gallon water and the acid is
normally mixed 6 parts water to 1 acid. You can reach Crest directly at
(405) 232-6577 and ask for Doug Bennett. He is their engineering expert.
----------------
Eldorado Chemical
http://www.eldoradochem.com/
contact: Travis Morgan
Look under conversion coatings
Dorado Kote 1 (DK-1)
5lb pail = $87.52
10lb pail = $149.08
50 lb pail = $677.68
fax a purchase order to 210-653-0825
They do accept Visa, MC, and AMEX
Also available are corrosion removers, and aluminum brightners.
-----------------
Hope this helps future builders with their search.
Tim
-=-=-
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Wing Kit - In progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Neal George ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Neal George
Subject: 110v Hobbs Meter
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL.10.23.2004/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sorry for the multiple posts (multiple lists), but I'll be in Las Vegas
from Nov 2 thru 12 .... my wife likes to gamble ..... but I'd rather fly
or visit an RV-10 builder !!! Anyone out there wanna take on a
tourist??? I'll buy gas (or lunch etc.)!!!
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | MT Propeller - Group Buy |
Hi All,
Just a reminder about my MT Propeller group buy for the RV-10 using the
Lycoming 540 engine.
MT Propeller allows up to 12 months to install their propeller for the start
of their two year materials and workmanship warrantee.
So, if you are planning to fly in 2005, you can get in on this group buy.
At this time I am just asking for your name, if you are interested in saving
some money when they buy an MT Propeller.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
_jim(at)lessdrag.com_ (mailto:jim(at)lessdrag.com)
Less Drag Products, Inc. - An MT Propeller distributor
_www.lessdrag.com_ (http://www.lessdrag.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chuck Jensen <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> |
| Subject: | Fire detections sensors |
I have a Grand Rapids EIS/EFIS system that has two spare channels left,
which I wanted to use to connect to two temp sensors in the cowling area on
a Velo pusher. The tractor-guys have an early fire warning system--a face
full of smoke. Us pusher-guys don't know anything is happening until our
tail falls off. GRT allows upper limits to be set on each channel, which
will activate the system alarm. The general cowling temp on the ramp after
a hot flight is in the 180F range. Any suggestions on thermocouples or
thermisters that are commercially available that would do the job?
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Lister Comments - Please Support The Lists |
Dear Listers,
Wow! People have been including some very nice comments along with their
Contributions lately! I've included another set of below and will send
another set in a couple of days.
Guys, I really appreciate your kind words and support. In the last few
days, the contributions have really started to come in and its looking like
support this year may slightly surpass last year's. There's still a few
days left in this year's Fund Raiser, so if you've been waiting until the
last minute to make your Contribution, now's the time!
Make Your Contribution Today: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
----------------- More of What Listers Are Saying... --------------------
Every morning 5:30 am, coffee and the "List". It's how I start my day.
Robert G.
The list is still my favorite aviation magazine.
Roger H.
Great resource, without the distraction of pop ups and ads!
Douglas D.
I look forward to my daily list reading almost as much as my coffee!
Hal K.
Great service!
Aaron G.
I have made some great friends, because of it!
Bob D.
Great resource!!
Richard S.
I learn something of value every time I read the messages.
Stan S.
Great list!
Thomas E.
Now that I am close to completion of my [homebuilt], I look back
and wonder how I could ever have made it this far without [the Lists].
Jeff O.
Outstanding site and administration.
Anthony S.
Great forum for our projects.
Darrel M.
I have become a List Addict!
George M.
A very helpful resource for me.
Dennis K.
Great for staying up on the latest.
Forrest L.
Valuable benefit for the users.
George A.
Great tool for all [builders].
Tony M.
Can't tell you how much I appreciate the archives.
Ken B.
I really enjoy the sharing of information and the "discussions" that come up.
Ross S.
[The List] reminds us home builders that help is just a few clicks away.
Danny W.
A great resource!
Christopher S.
Always a pleasure to support this list!
Richard W.
Thanks for helping all of us build better aircraft.
John P.
Great list(s)for data, info and making friends.
John S.
[The] List has helped me much with my building process.
Raimo T.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: [RV10] Re: MT Propeller for IO-540 (Again) |
_Click here: Welcome to LessDrag.com - Products that make the Subtle
Difference!_ (http://www.lessdrag.com/)
Try this link, and select the Propeller page.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Jim Jewell ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Jim Jewell
Subject: RV6-A lower cowl engine air intake seal
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jjewell@telus.net.12.18.2004/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nichols, James D" <james.d.nichols(at)lmco.com> |
OK gang, before I call Vans, here is a dumb question: I have received
the -10 empennage kit and have finished the inventory (all accounted
for) but no ware can I find the kit serial number, looked through all
the paperwork, both the mailed and the paperwork in the boxes have
nothing to indicate the serial number, does this come latter?
Thanks,
JD. Nichols AP
RV-10 (unknown)
N69KV AA1B/150
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
I don't have my paperwork in front of me, but it may also be called your builder
number. For an RV-10 it will be 40xxx (403xx for a very recently assigned number).
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Nichols, James
D
Subject: RV10-List: Kit Number
OK gang, before I call Vans, here is a dumb question: I have received
the -10 empennage kit and have finished the inventory (all accounted
for) but no ware can I find the kit serial number, looked through all
the paperwork, both the mailed and the paperwork in the boxes have
nothing to indicate the serial number, does this come latter?
Thanks,
JD. Nichols AP
RV-10 (unknown)
N69KV AA1B/150
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conti, Rick" <rick.conti(at)boeing.com> |
Serial number is the same as your customer number.
Rick Conti
The Boeing Company
-----Original Message-----
From: Nichols, James D <james.d.nichols(at)lmco.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Kit Number
OK gang, before I call Vans, here is a dumb question: I have received
the -10 empennage kit and have finished the inventory (all accounted
for) but no ware can I find the kit serial number, looked through all
the paperwork, both the mailed and the paperwork in the boxes have
nothing to indicate the serial number, does this come latter?
Thanks,
JD. Nichols AP
RV-10 (unknown)
N69KV AA1B/150
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conti, Rick" <rick.conti(at)boeing.com> |
Has anyone given any thought to sound proofing yet? Aircraft Spruce
carries several types. Anyone experienced in this area?
Also - for those of you that have received an "earlier" fuselage kit,
check part F1059D. It should be pre-formed. If the part is flat, call
Van's for a replacement.
Thank You
Rick Conti
Manager - Systems Engineering
Strategic Initiatives
The Boeing Company
office: 703 - 414 - 6141
cell: 507 - 215 - 6134
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com> |
Here is some information on sound proofing that I put together. I have
been pretty impressed with the stuff from Aircraft Spruce. But make
sure you use a high temp glue. They also sell it at Aircraft Spruce. I
used 1/4" stuff. The weight is very minimal of it all and the insulation
is great.
http://freedomflyers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53
Scott Schmidt
USSynthetic Product Manager
1260 South 1600 West
Orem UT 84058
Phone: 801-235-9001
Fax: 801-235-9141
Cell: 801-319-3094
sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Conti, Rick
Subject: RV10-List: Sound Proofing
Has anyone given any thought to sound proofing yet? Aircraft Spruce
carries several types. Anyone experienced in this area?
Also - for those of you that have received an "earlier" fuselage kit,
check part F1059D. It should be pre-formed. If the part is flat, call
Van's for a replacement.
Thank You
Rick Conti
Manager - Systems Engineering
Strategic Initiatives
The Boeing Company
office: 703 - 414 - 6141
cell: 507 - 215 - 6134
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-10 Fuselage Inventory Lists |
| From: | "Conti, Rick" <rick.conti(at)boeing.com> |
<> <>
Thank You
Rick Conti
Manager - Systems Engineering
Strategic Initiatives
The Boeing Company
office: 703 - 414 - 6141
cell: 507 - 215 - 6134
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-10 Fuselage Inventory Lists |
| From: | "Conti, Rick" <rick.conti(at)boeing.com> |
Forgot, no attachments. If you'd like an Excel spreadsheet of the
fuselage inventory and bag inventory, send me an email directly and I
will respond with the inventory lists.
rick.conti(at)boeing.com
Thank You
Rick Conti
office: 703-414-6141
cell: 571-215-6134
-----Original Message-----
From: Conti, Rick
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Fuselage Inventory Lists
<> <>
Thank You
Rick Conti
Manager - Systems Engineering
Strategic Initiatives
The Boeing Company
office: 703 - 414 - 6141
cell: 507 - 215 - 6134
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ NOW] - Addressing Upgrade At Matronics TONIGHT! |
Dear Listers,
Service Provider to upgrade to a larger IP subnet. I will be
re-addressing all of the machines on the network including the
Matronics Web Server and Matronics Email Server at that time. Name
Service will be updated at that time as well and most things should
work again pretty quick. There may be some bounced email for a few hours
or even a day or so as the new name-to-ip-address resolutions propagate
into the depths of the Internet.
If you have problems posting a message to one of the Lists or get a
bounced message back, please wait a couple of hours and try sending it
again. Generally, access to the web site should work within 1-hour of
Hopefully the transition will go smoothly and you'll hardly even
notice! :-)
Thanks for your patience!
Matt Dralle
List Administrator
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary B. Jacobs" <gblayne(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | RV-10 panel choices |
I'm planning the panel of my RV-10 and I'd like opinions on my avionics choices.
I've tentatively decided on a Dynon EFIS, a Rocky Mountain Instruments micro
encoder and micromonitor, the Garmin transponder, an RST audio panel with marker
beacon, one nav/com with localizer and glideslope, and a backup electric
attitude gyro. My thinking is that the microencoder will back up the Dynon for
airspeed, altitude and direction, and the electric gyro will backup the Dynon
for attitude. What do you think?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 panel choices |
I was a fan of the Rocky Mountain stuff, but there has been many advances
since. Plus, they are reluctant to change their design for future upgrades.
The microencoder I never used, other than for the encoder portion. Didn't
like the display. The engine monitor only displays one engine at a time.
You need to use a switch to change cylinders. I approached them with an
idea of having a timed switch between each cylinder, or have it display the
hottest, and they were not interested.
Personally, I like the ACS 2002 engine monitor. Wins my vote hands down,
simply for the display. Seeing your engine "in the green" makes more sense
to me than digits.
The features on the microencoder are overkill for me. A standard VSI and
altimeter with an encoder would be more helpful in my opinion.
I'd put in an old analog airspeed indicator for backup. If I were to backup
an electronic item, I do it with something that wasn't electronic.
My opinons only, coming from using both, and teaching both.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold
RV-10 Soon
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary B. Jacobs" <gblayne(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 panel choices
>
> I'm planning the panel of my RV-10 and I'd like opinions on my avionics
choices. I've tentatively decided on a Dynon EFIS, a Rocky Mountain
Instruments micro encoder and micromonitor, the Garmin transponder, an RST
audio panel with marker beacon, one nav/com with localizer and glideslope,
and a backup electric attitude gyro. My thinking is that the microencoder
will back up the Dynon for airspeed, altitude and direction, and the
electric gyro will backup the Dynon for attitude. What do you think?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary B. Jacobs" <gblayne(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 panel choices |
Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 panel choices
>
> I was a fan of the Rocky Mountain stuff, but there has been many advances
> since. Plus, they are reluctant to change their design for future
> upgrades.
> The microencoder I never used, other than for the encoder portion. Didn't
> like the display. The engine monitor only displays one engine at a time.
> You need to use a switch to change cylinders. I approached them with an
> idea of having a timed switch between each cylinder, or have it display
> the
> hottest, and they were not interested.
>
> Personally, I like the ACS 2002 engine monitor. Wins my vote hands down,
> simply for the display. Seeing your engine "in the green" makes more
> sense
> to me than digits.
>
> The features on the microencoder are overkill for me. A standard VSI and
> altimeter with an encoder would be more helpful in my opinion.
>
> I'd put in an old analog airspeed indicator for backup. If I were to
> backup
> an electronic item, I do it with something that wasn't electronic.
>
> My opinons only, coming from using both, and teaching both.
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A Sold
> RV-10 Soon
> http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
> Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
> http://www.kitlog.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary B. Jacobs" <gblayne(at)mchsi.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 panel choices
>
>
>>
>> I'm planning the panel of my RV-10 and I'd like opinions on my avionics
> choices. I've tentatively decided on a Dynon EFIS, a Rocky Mountain
> Instruments micro encoder and micromonitor, the Garmin transponder, an RST
> audio panel with marker beacon, one nav/com with localizer and glideslope,
> and a backup electric attitude gyro. My thinking is that the microencoder
> will back up the Dynon for airspeed, altitude and direction, and the
> electric gyro will backup the Dynon for attitude. What do you think?
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 panel choices |
Hello Gary,
I've exactly this setup in my GlaStar and I'm quite happy with Dynon and
Encoder, however the micromonitor is another item I would change (actually
looking currently into it), two disadvantages, one beeing all temperatures
in Celsius and the engine CHT/EGT only one cylinder visible, I had also one
or two glitches with it, but functionality wise it is perfect, all what I
need is included (except the one and only cyl.
Let me know if you want more infos/photos.
br
Werner
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary B. Jacobs" <gblayne(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 panel choices
>
> I'm planning the panel of my RV-10 and I'd like opinions on my avionics
choices. I've tentatively decided on a Dynon EFIS, a Rocky Mountain
Instruments micro encoder and micromonitor, the Garmin transponder, an RST
audio panel with marker beacon, one nav/com with localizer and glideslope,
and a backup electric attitude gyro. My thinking is that the microencoder
will back up the Dynon for airspeed, altitude and direction, and the
electric gyro will backup the Dynon for attitude. What do you think?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | RV-10 panel choices |
As long as you've decided on the Dynon EFIS (great choice), hold off a few
months until they start shipping their new engine monitor. It's display is
VERY similar in layout to the ACS, meaning you get all the stuff you want at
a glance....Plus, it's nearly identical to the EFIS, and communicates with
it as well, giving you some added redundancy as far as switching displays
(The EFIS & Eng.Monitor will talk to each other).I can say with a fair
amount of certainty it will be far cheaper than the ACS monitor as well.
Paul's right, the ACS stuff is nice, but there are others out there that are
very competitive as well. The Rocky Mountain stuff seems to be slowly
becoming less prevalent with the new breed of stuff available. Personally,
I think they are fine units, but look somewhat antiquated compared to the
newere stuff available. Look at it this way, you're going to have probably
at least $50-60K minimum into the airframe, so a few extra $$'s on the panel
will make the difference between a lower end looking panel and a nice top
notch panel.
Also, I'd forget about the backup electric Gyro and also wait a few months
until TruTrak starts shipping their new solid state Attitude Direction
Indicator, which also has some REALLY nifty added functionality (including a
built in DG, etc..) It'll will be cheaper than the electric Gyros, FAR more
reliable, and will run a long time on a simple 9 volt battery for backup if
required.
If you have any questions about either of the above units, contact me off
list for more details and I'll gladly help you out. I can also give you
some personal insight as to personally handling a very large variety of
today's available instruments and engine monitors on a regular basis.
Just my 2 cents as usual.
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary B. Jacobs
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 panel choices
I'm planning the panel of my RV-10 and I'd like opinions on my avionics
choices. I've tentatively decided on a Dynon EFIS, a Rocky Mountain
Instruments micro encoder and micromonitor, the Garmin transponder, an RST
audio panel with marker beacon, one nav/com with localizer and glideslope,
and a backup electric attitude gyro. My thinking is that the microencoder
will back up the Dynon for airspeed, altitude and direction, and the
electric gyro will backup the Dynon for attitude. What do you think?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer(at)verizon.net> |
Food for thought, for those of you working on the fuselage section prior to putting
the baggage floors or rear seat pans in yet. I am working on my wire runs
from the firewall to the battery. I am trying to keep most of my heavy power
runs down the left side and my more sensitive stuff down the right. Now that my
floors/seats etc are closed up I have found that the the snap bushing previously
installed through the rear spar blkhd and the fuse blkhd on the left side
( Ref 26-6 ) are not nearly adequate for the wires I wish to run. My 2awg wire
from the batt to the firewall area is all that will fit. If you're planning
on running multiple wires down the left side to the tailcone area I suggest thinking
about it before this area is closed up. On another subject! I have revamped
and finalized my instrument panel setup. I have available ( new in boxes
) the following items if anyone is interested. 1. JPI EDM-700-6C all bayonet
probes + OAT + Carb temp probe ( $1400 ) 2. EI FP-5L fuel computer w/GPS interface,
FT-60 fuel flow, FM-FP fuel press module ( $700 ). 3. EI SC-5 Super clock
($200). 4. CI-159-C LOC/GS antenna ( $ 200 ). 10flyer(at)verizon.net Mark. (40016)
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
This may or may not apply, but I have a trick I'd like to share. You
mentioned snap bushings. On the RV-7, Van's calls out SB-625-7 snap
bushings in lots of places. Do yourself a favor and wherever one of these
is called out, just put an SB-625-8 in its place. The extra 1/16" of
clearance can make a big difference if you're trying to cram wires through.
It may mean you can run 2 or 3 more wires through, depending on wire size of
course. Might make your life easier years later, too, if you plan on adding
anything.
Spruce sells the 625-8 snap bushings.
Hope this helps,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RV10-List: Wire Runs
>
> Food for thought, for those of you working on the fuselage section prior
to putting the baggage floors or rear seat pans in yet. I am working on my
wire runs from the firewall to the battery. I am trying to keep most of my
heavy power runs down the left side and my more sensitive stuff down the
right. Now that my floors/seats etc are closed up I have found that the the
snap bushing previously installed through the rear spar blkhd and the fuse
blkhd on the left side ( Ref 26-6 ) are not nearly adequate for the wires I
wish to run. My 2awg wire from the batt to the firewall area is all that
will fit. If you're planning on running multiple wires down the left side to
the tailcone area I suggest thinking about it before this area is closed up.
On another subject! I have revamped and finalized my instrument panel setup.
I have available ( new in boxes ) the following items if anyone is
interested. 1. JPI EDM-700-6C all bayonet probes + OAT + Carb temp probe (
$1400 ) 2. EI FP-5L!
> fuel computer w/GPS interface, FT-60 fuel flow, FM-FP fuel press module
( $700 ). 3. EI SC-5 Super clock ($200). 4. CI-159-C LOC/GS antenna ( $ 200
). 10flyer(at)verizon.net Mark. (40016)
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RLaviation(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 panel choices |
To alll interested parties:
I have a professionally assembled RV 10 tail kit for sale.
If you are attending the Florida RV fly in, the kit can be available for
inspection.
Please contact me at 813-690-1916 for more details.
Best regards,
Russell Lepre
RLaviation(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RLaviation(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Tail Kit for Sale |
To alll interested parties:
I have a professionally assembled RV 10 tail kit for sale.
If you are attending the Florida RV fly in, the kit can be available for
inspection.
Please contact me at 813-690-1916 for more details.
Best regards,
Russell Lepre
RLaviation(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV10-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/15/05 |
What does "professionally assembled" mean?
--- RV10-List Digest Server wrote:
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete RV10-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the RV10-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list/Digest.RV10-List.2005-01-15.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> RV10-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 01/15/05: 1
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 04:22 AM - Tail Kit for Sale (RLaviation(at)aol.com)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: RLaviation(at)aol.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Tail Kit for Sale
>
>
> To alll interested parties:
>
> I have a professionally assembled RV 10 tail kit for sale.
>
> If you are attending the Florida RV fly in, the kit can be available for
> inspection.
>
> Please contact me at 813-690-1916 for more details.
>
> Best regards,
> Russell Lepre
> RLaviation(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conti, Rick" <rick.conti(at)boeing.com> |
Long story short, hard drive crash. If I sent you the RV-10 and bolt
length Excel spreadsheets, I would appreciate it if you sent them back
for my use to: rick.conti@boeing .com
THANKS!
Thank You
Rick Conti
Manager - Systems Engineering
Strategic Initiatives
The Boeing Company
office: 703 - 414 - 6141
cell: 571 - 215 - 6134
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
Hi All,
I am starting to get orders for the RV-10 propeller. It must be time to
start the RV-10 propeller group buy.
I need to have 16 orders to qualify for the group buy price.
Lead time for delivery is 8 to 12 weeks after the order is placed.
MT Propeller allows 12 months from date of delivery to install the propeller.
Final install of the propeller starts their 2 year warrantee for materials
and workmanship.
Group buy price for the MT RV-10 propeller and spinner assembly is $7,100 ex
works MT Propeller, Germany.
Group Buy price for the MT governor is $1,000 ex works Less Drag Products,
Inc., California.
If you are interested in taking advantage of this group buy price, please
let me know.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
Less Drag Products, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | MT Propeller group buy |
Hi All,
Please contact me OFF the list.
_LessDragCom(at)aol.com_ (mailto:LessDragCom(at)aol.com)
Thanks!
Regards,
Jim Ayers
Less Drag Products, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
What do you do if you damage a prop?
Ask for help.
I was flying back from Van's Fly-In a couple years ago with another RV-3.
When we landed at the first stop, the other RV-3 made a bad landing (bouncy)
and clipped the tips of his propeller on the runway. Unfortunately, it also
split out a piece on one blade from the tip to the root near the trailing
edge. Prop scrapped.
The RV-3 owner contacted the local EAA group. There was an RV-4 on the
field that was for sale and not being flown. They loaned the RV-3 owner the RV-4
propeller to fly home.
A Velocity with an MT Propeller was landing at Sun-N-Fun last year, and had
to make a go-around right as they were flaring to land. In applying full
power with the wheels on the runway, the Velocity over-rotated and the propeller
contacted the runway. This removed a small amount of material from each of
the blade tips.
Although the MT Propeller manual provides specific criteria for damage
repair, the owner came to the MT Propeller booth to ask for help.
An MT Propeller factory representative looked at the damage, and determined
that there were no spanwise cracks in the blades.
The repair was to trim the blades to the same length. The permanent repair
would be to trim the blades to the same length and paint the exposed wood.
Having the propeller rebalanced at the earliest opportunity was also
recommended.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Lycoming - tractor engine or turbine smooth? |
Lycoming - tractor engine or turbine smooth?
This is the real question that needs to be asked when you are considering
which propeller to buy.
I had an opportunity to test four different constant speed propellers on one
aircraft. There were three different 2 blade propellers and one 3 blade
propeller. This aircraft was owned by a friend who flew the aircraft. I just
went along as the observer and data recorder.
The original CS propeller on the aircraft had been dynamically balanced on
the engine. Since the plan was to leave the original propeller on the
aircraft when we were finished with the testing, we did not removed the dynamic
balance weights from the engine ring gear.
All three of the 2 blade propellers had about the same vibration level
during their flights.
Then we flew the 3 blade propeller. On the takeoff roll and initial climb,
I noticed the pilot was highly stressed about something. About mid field, as
we were climbing out, he finally said that something must be wrong with the
engine. That the engine wasn't producing power.
We laughed about this later.
We seem to expect a certain vibration level which can be directly related to
the engine power. We don't even think about this. And it's not something
that any instructor I have had has ever talked about. It's just there.
I've been told that a 2 blade propeller has a 2nd order harmonic on the
Lycoming engine.
And the 3 blade propeller does not have the 2nd order harmonic on the
Lycoming engine.
What does this really mean?
On another test sequence, I had an opportunity to again ride in a friends
aircraft. On this friends Harmon Rocket 2 with a stock Lycoming IO-540-C4B5,
we removed a 2 blade propeller and installed a 3 blade propeller.
The 3 blade propeller made the Lycoming run like it was an electric motor,
it was so vibration free.
When we install a second 2 blade propeller, the same old vibration came
right back. At the same level as the first 2 blade propeller.
So the question goes back to you, the builder/flyers. Do you want "turbine
smooth" or "tractor engine"?
Regards,
Jim Ayers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AI Nut <ainut(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Damaged Prop? |
It is almost mandatory to get the crank checked whenever one has a prop
strike. A friend of mine did this when doing an emergency landing in a
field. Prop, spinner, and hub all looked good visually, but he had the
crank checked anyway. Good thing, too, as it had cracks necessitating
replacement.
David
LessDragProd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>What do you do if you damage a prop?
>
>Ask for help.
>
>I was flying back from Van's Fly-In a couple years ago with another RV-3.
>When we landed at the first stop, the other RV-3 made a bad landing (bouncy)
>and clipped the tips of his propeller on the runway. Unfortunately, it also
>split out a piece on one blade from the tip to the root near the trailing
>edge. Prop scrapped.
>The RV-3 owner contacted the local EAA group. There was an RV-4 on the
>field that was for sale and not being flown. They loaned the RV-3 owner the
RV-4
>propeller to fly home.
>
>A Velocity with an MT Propeller was landing at Sun-N-Fun last year, and had
>to make a go-around right as they were flaring to land. In applying full
>power with the wheels on the runway, the Velocity over-rotated and the propeller
>contacted the runway. This removed a small amount of material from each of
>the blade tips.
>Although the MT Propeller manual provides specific criteria for damage
>repair, the owner came to the MT Propeller booth to ask for help.
>An MT Propeller factory representative looked at the damage, and determined
>that there were no spanwise cracks in the blades.
>The repair was to trim the blades to the same length. The permanent repair
>would be to trim the blades to the same length and paint the exposed wood.
>Having the propeller rebalanced at the earliest opportunity was also
>recommended.
>
>Regards,
>Jim Ayers
>
>
>.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AI Nut <ainut(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming - tractor engine or turbine smooth? |
It may be smoother, but I'm told by prop manufacturers that one will
lose a few kts in cruise with a 3-blade. I opted for smoother.
David
LessDragProd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>Lycoming - tractor engine or turbine smooth?
>
>This is the real question that needs to be asked when you are considering
>which propeller to buy.
>
>I had an opportunity to test four different constant speed propellers on one
>aircraft. There were three different 2 blade propellers and one 3 blade
>propeller. This aircraft was owned by a friend who flew the aircraft. I just
>went along as the observer and data recorder.
>
>The original CS propeller on the aircraft had been dynamically balanced on
>the engine. Since the plan was to leave the original propeller on the
>aircraft when we were finished with the testing, we did not removed the dynamic
>balance weights from the engine ring gear.
>
>All three of the 2 blade propellers had about the same vibration level
>during their flights.
>
>Then we flew the 3 blade propeller. On the takeoff roll and initial climb,
>I noticed the pilot was highly stressed about something. About mid field, as
>we were climbing out, he finally said that something must be wrong with the
>engine. That the engine wasn't producing power.
>
>We laughed about this later.
>
>We seem to expect a certain vibration level which can be directly related to
>the engine power. We don't even think about this. And it's not something
>that any instructor I have had has ever talked about. It's just there.
>
>I've been told that a 2 blade propeller has a 2nd order harmonic on the
>Lycoming engine.
>
>And the 3 blade propeller does not have the 2nd order harmonic on the
>Lycoming engine.
>
>What does this really mean?
>
>On another test sequence, I had an opportunity to again ride in a friends
>aircraft. On this friends Harmon Rocket 2 with a stock Lycoming IO-540-C4B5,
>we removed a 2 blade propeller and installed a 3 blade propeller.
>The 3 blade propeller made the Lycoming run like it was an electric motor,
>it was so vibration free.
>When we install a second 2 blade propeller, the same old vibration came
>right back. At the same level as the first 2 blade propeller.
>
>So the question goes back to you, the builder/flyers. Do you want "turbine
>smooth" or "tractor engine"?
>
>Regards,
>Jim Ayers
>
>
>.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV10-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/24/05 |
Hi Al,
One of the reasons I like working will MT Propeller is that they seem to
have a better business ethic than our own American propeller manufacturers.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 01/24/2005 11:59:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,
rv10-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
From: AI Nut <ainut(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Lycoming - tractor engine or turbine smooth?
--> RV10-List message posted by: AI Nut
It may be smoother, but I'm told by prop manufacturers that one will
lose a few kts in cruise with a 3-blade. I opted for smoother.
David
LessDragProd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>Lycoming - tractor engine or turbine smooth?
>
>This is the real question that needs to be asked when you are considering
>which propeller to buy.
>
>I had an opportunity to test four different constant speed propellers on
one
>aircraft. There were three different 2 blade propellers and one 3 blade
>propeller. This aircraft was owned by a friend who flew the aircraft. I
just
>went along as the observer and data recorder.
>
>The original CS propeller on the aircraft had been dynamically balanced on
>the engine. Since the plan was to leave the original propeller on the
>aircraft when we were finished with the testing, we did not removed the
dynamic
>balance weights from the engine ring gear.
>
>All three of the 2 blade propellers had about the same vibration level
>during their flights.
>
>Then we flew the 3 blade propeller. On the takeoff roll and initial
climb,
>I noticed the pilot was highly stressed about something. About mid field,
as
>we were climbing out, he finally said that something must be wrong with
the
>engine. That the engine wasn't producing power.
>
>We laughed about this later.
>
>We seem to expect a certain vibration level which can be directly related
to
>the engine power. We don't even think about this. And it's not something
>that any instructor I have had has ever talked about. It's just there.
>
>I've been told that a 2 blade propeller has a 2nd order harmonic on the
>Lycoming engine.
>
>And the 3 blade propeller does not have the 2nd order harmonic on the
>Lycoming engine.
>
>What does this really mean?
>
>On another test sequence, I had an opportunity to again ride in a friends
>aircraft. On this friends Harmon Rocket 2 with a stock Lycoming
IO-540-C4B5,
>we removed a 2 blade propeller and installed a 3 blade propeller.
>The 3 blade propeller made the Lycoming run like it was an electric motor,
>it was so vibration free.
>When we install a second 2 blade propeller, the same old vibration came
>right back. At the same level as the first 2 blade propeller.
>
>So the question goes back to you, the builder/flyers. Do you want
"turbine
>smooth" or "tractor engine"?
>
>Regards,
>Jim Ayers
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Engine Selection |
| From: | "Conti, Rick" <rick.conti(at)boeing.com> |
What is the consensus on engine selections thus far? I just got off the
phone with Charlie Sullivan (CEO Innodyn Aviation) and discussed the 255
hp turbine they have developed. They expect to have the RV-10 kit ready
in 6-8 weeks.
http://www.innodyn.com/
I have some concerns about the stability of Innodyn. Has anyone else
investigated turbines?
Thank You
Rick Conti
Manager - Systems Engineering
Strategic Initiatives
The Boeing Company
office: 703 - 414 - 6141
cell: 571 - 215 - 6134
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Selection |
You need to join the Yahoo list and read the last years messages. Bottom
line, there are no published performance numbers, after years of testing,
only numbers extrapolated on paper and not taken from dyno testing. Many
who follow their progress are very skeptical. But with that said we also
want them to succeed.
>
>What is the consensus on engine selections thus far? I just got off the
>phone with Charlie Sullivan (CEO Innodyn Aviation) and discussed the 255
>hp turbine they have developed. They expect to have the RV-10 kit ready
>in 6-8 weeks.
>
>http://www.innodyn.com/
>
>I have some concerns about the stability of Innodyn. Has anyone else
>investigated turbines?
>
>Thank You
>Rick Conti
>Manager - Systems Engineering
>Strategic Initiatives
>The Boeing Company
>office: 703 - 414 - 6141
> cell: 571 - 215 - 6134
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <retiredpilot03-serv(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Selection |
I also was considering that option but as you
probably know turbines are only efficient at
relatively high altitudes. I am concerned with
what the fuel flow will be at altitudes to
10-12,000 ft.
Robert Vinroot
--- Scott Bilinski
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> wrote:
> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> You need to join the Yahoo list and read the
> last years messages. Bottom
> line, there are no published performance
> numbers, after years of testing,
> only numbers extrapolated on paper and not
> taken from dyno testing. Many
> who follow their progress are very skeptical.
> But with that said we also
> want them to succeed.
>
>
> >
> >What is the consensus on engine selections
> thus far? I just got off the
> >phone with Charlie Sullivan (CEO Innodyn
> Aviation) and discussed the 255
> >hp turbine they have developed. They expect
> to have the RV-10 kit ready
> >in 6-8 weeks.
> >
> >http://www.innodyn.com/
> >
> >I have some concerns about the stability of
> Innodyn. Has anyone else
> >investigated turbines?
> >
> >Thank You
> >Rick Conti
> >Manager - Systems Engineering
> >Strategic Initiatives
> >The Boeing Company
> >office: 703 - 414 - 6141
> > cell: 571 - 215 - 6134
> >
> >
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 305
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | louiscfi(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | engine selection |
AHH, finally a subject I can post about. I have been lurking on the list for a
while now. First off an introduction...My name is Louis and I am currently building
a corvair powered Zenith 601xl in St.Louis, MO, go ahead, check out my
web site. I think the next one will be an RV-10. I am captain on the 30 seat
Jetstream (Junkstream) 41. I am also a CFI w/ single, multi, and instrument
ratings. Total time: about 3800 hrs.
OK, enough horn tooting. I really like these innodyn (ATP) engines. Incredible
we can have an efficient turbine engine for less than 30k. As for the stability
of the company, I think the important thing to look at is where the parts
for the engine come from. Is the turbine something that comes from another source,
or does Innodyn manufacture their own. Things like the spark plugs seem
easy enough to get off the shelf. Keep in mind that these engines don't have
that many moving parts...although the reduction box may make for a bigger moving
parts count. I'd say if these boys can get their engine certified then we
may really have something. Although I'm sure the current pricing would go right
out the door...remember what happened to the rotax 912 series.
Well, that's enough rambling for now, have fun building your RV's.
--
Louis
601xl, corvair pwr
j-41 capt
CFII SMEL
HTTP://www.N601LV.com
AHH, finally a subject I can post about. I have been lurking on the list for a
while now. First off an introduction...My name is Louis and I am currently building
a corvair powered Zenith 601xl in St.Louis, MO, go ahead, check out my web
site. I think the next one will be an RV-10.I am captain on the30 seat Jetstream
(Junkstream) 41. I am also a CFI w/ single, multi, and instrument ratings.
Total time:about 3800 hrs.
OK, enough horn tooting. I really like these innodyn (ATP) engines. Incredible
we can have an efficient turbine engine for less than 30k. As for the stability
of the company, I think the important thing to look at is where the parts for
the engine come from.Is the turbine something that comes from another source,
or does Innodyn manufacture their own. Things like the spark plugs seem easy
enough to get off the shelf. Keep in mind that these engines don't have that
many moving parts...although the reductionbox may make for a bigger moving parts
count. I'd say if these boys can get their engine certified then we may really
have something. Although I'm sure the current pricing would go right out the
door...remember what happened to the rotax 912 series.
Well, that's enough rambling for now, have fun building your RV's.
--
Louis
601xl, corvair pwr
j-41 capt
CFII SMEL
HTTP://www.N601LV.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Selection |
Aviation Consumer had a cautiously optimistic article on Innodyne a few months
ago, as I
recall. Personally, I don't think they've accumulated enough service history to
convince me to
fork over the $34K (+) purchase price, with unproven field reliability, unspecified
fuel burn,
and no demonstrated "staying power" in the marketplace.
Lycoming's aren't perfect, but their strengths and weaknesses are far better known
than an
untested new design. I'll be flying my RV-10 IFR, as I do my RV-6A. I want the
most
proven reliability possible on the nose of the plane.
I'm planning to go with a carbeurated O-540. Overhauled, used, or perhaps salvage
core and
rebuild.
Tim
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 700 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
> What is the consensus on engine selections thus far? I just got off
> the phone with Charlie Sullivan (CEO Innodyn Aviation) and discussed
> the 255 hp turbine they have developed. They expect to have the RV-10
> kit ready in 6-8 weeks.
>
> http://www.innodyn.com/
>
> I have some concerns about the stability of Innodyn. Has anyone else
> investigated turbines?
>
> Thank You
> Rick Conti
> Manager - Systems Engineering
> Strategic Initiatives
> The Boeing Company
> office: 703 - 414 - 6141
> cell: 571 - 215 - 6134
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | louiscfi(at)comcast.net |
--
Louis
601xl, corvair pwr
j-41 capt
CFII SMEL
HTTP://www.N601LV.com
--
Louis
601xl, corvair pwr
j-41 capt
CFII SMEL
HTTP://www.N601LV.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Posting for RV-10 list |
I would expect that most people reading these messages are already setup
with builder's tools. However, I would like to suggest adding Plane Tools to
the list of suppliers for these items. I have found Brad Isham to be extremely
responsive, helpful, and reasonably priced. The quality of the tools has
been outstanding, and have helped me make rapid progress on the tail kit for my
RV-10.
Jim Gilmore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
| Subject: | Posting for RV-10 list |
Okay Jim, and the URL is?
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jfg(at)aol.com
Subject: RV10-List: Posting for RV-10 list
I would expect that most people reading these messages are already setup
with builder's tools. However, I would like to suggest adding Plane Tools
to
the list of suppliers for these items. I have found Brad Isham to be
extremely
responsive, helpful, and reasonably priced. The quality of the tools has
been outstanding, and have helped me make rapid progress on the tail kit
for my
RV-10.
Jim Gilmore
________________________________________________________________________________
Sorry....I neglected to include the URL for Plane Tools in my previous
message. Brad Isham's company can be found at:
_http://www.planetools.com/RVHolidayToolKit.htm_
(http://www.planetools.com/RVHolidayToolKit.htm)
Jim Gilmore
RV-10 Builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
| Subject: | Aux Fuel Tank(s) |
clamav-milter version 0.80j
on andromeda
This is my first post, but I have gleaned a fair bit of useful information
from the other posts since I joined a couple of weeks ago.
My question is regarding Auxiliary Fuel Tanks for the RV-10. We would like
to add 20 gallons of fuel capacity. We have talked about a flat welded tank
the size of the baggage compartment floor, a welded tank to fit the angled
space behind the back seat but in front of the baggage door, and wing tip
tanks. Are any of you working on something or aware of something like this
that somebody else has done. I understand that tip tanks are available from
Australia for the 2-seat RV's, but not yet for the RV-10.
Any help would be very beneficial.
GOD BLESS!
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Schipper <mike(at)learningplanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aux Fuel Tank(s) |
Matthew Brandes has made extended range tanks for his -9A. I know it's
not a -10, but you might get some ideas from his work. You can check
out his website for details.
http://www.n523rv.com
Regards,
Mike Schipper
-9A #90768 - Finishing Kit
www.my9a.com
On Feb 9, 2005, at 9:58 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:
This is my first post, but I have gleaned a fair bit of useful
information
from the other posts since I joined a couple of weeks ago.
My question is regarding Auxiliary Fuel Tanks for the RV-10. We would
like
to add 20 gallons of fuel capacity. We have talked about a flat welded
tank
the size of the baggage compartment floor, a welded tank to fit the
angled
space behind the back seat but in front of the baggage door, and wing
tip
tanks. Are any of you working on something or aware of something like
this
that somebody else has done. I understand that tip tanks are available
from
Australia for the 2-seat RV's, but not yet for the RV-10.
Any help would be very beneficial.
GOD BLESS!
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn(at)verizon.net> |
"rv10-list"
| Subject: | Engine questions |
Some time ago I found a Lyc engine manual (2002 verison) on line and gleaned
this info. We have the IO-540 J4A5 in HRII N561FS and had to change to Slick
mags because of firewall interference. Very tight fit for spin-on oil filter
but is serviceable. We are not turbo. Injection is Bendix and rebuilt to -11
mod. Engine complete as/was, it came from a ground looped Skybolt. Rebuilt
with 6 new jugs. For information only, your mileage may vary. KABONG (GBA
& GWB) 8*)
IO-540 J4A5 Shown as installed only in Piper Aircraft, Aztec PA-23 "250"
IO-540 J4A5 250HP @2575 rpm 8.50 comp. Same as IO-540 C4B5 except for:
Conversion for use w/
turbocharger - long reach plugs, pistion cooling jets, AN fuel
pump drive, vertical fuel nozzles & 1200 series magnetos.
IO-540 C4B5 250HP @2575 rpm 8.50 comp. Same as IO-540 C1B5 but with more
effective counterweights for
use with Hartzell "compact" propeller.
IO-540 C1B5 250HP @2575 rpm 8.50 comp. Same as O-540 A1D5 but with
Bendix fuel injection.
O-540 A1D5 250HP @2575 rpm 8.50 comp. Same as O-540 A1B5 except for
retard breaker mags.
O-540 A1B5 250HP @2575 rpm 8.50 comp. Same as 0-540 A1A5 except for
short propeller governor studs &
two impulse mags.
O-540 A1A5 250HP @2575 rpm 8.50 comp. Same as 0-540 A1A except for 1
fifth & 1 sixth order weights.
O-540 A1A 250HP @2575 rpm 8.50 comp. Two sixth order counterweights.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net> |
| Subject: | Aux Fuel Tank(s) |
20 gallons about 3feet by 3 feet by 4" that is a big tank, and somewhere
near 125 pounds + the tank? How much baggage weight are we allowed?
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Subject: RV10-List: Aux Fuel Tank(s)
This is my first post, but I have gleaned a fair bit of useful information
from the other posts since I joined a couple of weeks ago.
My question is regarding Auxiliary Fuel Tanks for the RV-10. We would like
to add 20 gallons of fuel capacity. We have talked about a flat welded tank
the size of the baggage compartment floor, a welded tank to fit the angled
space behind the back seat but in front of the baggage door, and wing tip
tanks. Are any of you working on something or aware of something like this
that somebody else has done. I understand that tip tanks are available from
Australia for the 2-seat RV's, but not yet for the RV-10.
Any help would be very beneficial.
GOD BLESS!
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Kitlog Pro v2 - *My opinion* |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)Sausen.net> |
Guys,
Just thought you all might want to know I am very impressed with v2 of
Kitlog. Although it isn't released quite yet, I begged and pleaded for
Paul to send me a beta copy of it because of my familiarity with beta
products (day job has me designing large computer infrastructures) and
the fact that my Emp kit was arriving post haste (actually arrived
yesterday). Even in it's pre-release form, Kitlog Pro v2 is very stable
and functional and I was able to jump right in and start adding
information without the need for even an instruction manual. Very
intuitive and straight forward. I am quite happy with it. While it's
not free, I would rather pay a little and have a full product with
support than spend time putting something together myself or trying to
figure out a free product. I figure it pays for itself if it saves me 3
hours of puttering around in Excel or Access trying to do something
similar. Again, that's just me.
Just wanted to put in my 2 cents, I know Paul is anxious to get it out
the door but I believe he is more concerned with a quality product. I
know in my industry, having software that is functional is much better
than something that is hastily released to meet the executive and
marketing schedules.
Now then, please don't flame me and I don't work for Paul. I just
thought he deserved some credit for the hard work he has been doing.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: [RV10] Re: HID's in the Leading Edge |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)Sausen.net> |
Crate arrived yesterday and I'm number 40352.
BTW, I'm about 30 minutes south of the I35w and I20 interchange in
FtWorth right off of I35w in a little town called Grandview. Anyone
else in the South FtWorth area?
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Condrey [mailto:bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com]
Subject: [RV10] Re: HID's in the Leading Edge
Welcome to the club! Out of curiousity, what builder number are they up
to now?
Bob #40105
--- In RV10(at)yahoogroups.com, "RV Builder \(Michael Sausen\)"
<rvbuilder@s...> wrote:
>
> Absolutely. Put me down too. It'll be a bit though as I'm still
> waiting on my tail kit. Although it's now in the area and
scheduled to
> be delivered tomorrow!
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Olson [mailto:tim@M...]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 12:18 PM
> To: RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [RV10] HID's in the Leading Edge
>
>
> Now THAT is great customer service....someone who even watches the
list,
> and then prepares a product to address a need. Put me down as a big
> YES. I will almost definitely get a kit for my -10...
> probaby 2 of them. From reading the rocketboy article, I think I'd
> probably be intersted in a rectangle bulb model, so that I can also
try
> to find a HID from an auto...unless good motivation can be give for
why
> a round lamp would be better. I'll also most likely purchase one
HID
> for the left side initially, but put in a cheap incandescent on the
> Right until after the project is completed, and then upgrade it to
a 2nd
> HID at that time.
>
> Thanks, and please keep me posted if the product becomes available.
>
> Tim
>
> Oh yeah, and like Sean said...WooHoo!
>
> --
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> Tim@M...
> Wing Kit - Almost Complete
> QB Fuse - Coming soon!
> '77 Sundowner - Flying
>
>
>
> Wentz, Don wrote:
> > Michael/Tim,
> > There has been enough interest in a leading edge light for the RV-
10
> > that when local builder Dan Benua wanted to buy a kit and modify
it
> > for the 10, I decided to help him and see how it would come out.
> >
> > I have to say I'm very pleased with the result, and Dan, being an
> > excellent builder, had some neat ideas that worked well.
> >
> > So, I've decided to put together kits for the -10.
> >
> > I don't know if there is much demand, maybe only 10 folks are
> > interested? If you really ARE interested send me a note at
> > duckworks@y... and I'll be able to guage demand.
> >
> > As far as timing goes, I will need to make some new parts unique
to
> > the 10, and still need to make a mold for the lenses.
> > If there are any Portland area builders who haven't riveted the
LE to
> > the spar yet, let me know.
> >
> > Again, prefer you use duckworks@y... for LL correspondence.
> > Thx!!
> > Don Wentz
> > Duckworks Exp Aircraft Parts
> > www.duckworksaviation.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen) [mailto:rvbuilder@s...]
> > Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 8:16 AM
> > To: RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [RV10] HID's in the Leading Edge
> >
> >
> >
> > Tim,
> >
> > If you get the info from him, please post it to your site. I
also
> > have every intention of using HID along with LED's for all of my
> > lighting.
> >
> > Michael Sausen
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tim Olson [mailto:tim@M...]
> > Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 9:11 AM
> > To: RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [RV10] HID's in the Leading Edge
> >
> >
> > Now that is EXACTLY the kind of thing I'm thinking of, and he
even
> > found a bulb/ballast combo that I hadn't seen before that may
cost
> > less. I emailed him to see if he has more photos, drawings, or
info
> > that would help with knowing where to cut that hole. What would
be
> > coolest yet is if Duckworks would just do whatever mod they need
for
> > the -10, and throw together a kit to sell through Van's, but I'm
not
> > holding my breath to wait for that.
> >
> > Thanks Sean for the link!
> >
> > --
> > Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> >
> >
> >
> > Schmo wrote:
> >
> >>Bummer. I was hoping the XV-19 would fit.
> >>
> >>Here's a couple shots from rocketboy. >>"http://www.f1-rocketboy.com/hid.htm"http://www.f1-
rocketboy.com/hid.h
> >>tm> He might be able to give more info than is on his page.
> >>
> >>Sean #303
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _____
> >>
> >>From: Tim Olson [mailto:tim@M...]
> >>Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 10:35 PM
> >>To: RV10
> >>Subject: [RV10] HID's in the Leading Edge
> >>
> >>
> >>If anyone has a good photo weblink of an RV Landing Light of the
> >>leading edge type, from a -7 or -9, drop me the link if you could.
> >>This would be the kind that you actually cut a hole in your
leading
> >
> > edge for.
> >
> >>I'm adamant that I want HID's in my -10, and I just found out
that my
> >>plan for the XV-19 probably won't work in the wingtip because of
the
> >>width of the bulb. If I can get a good photo of the leading edge
that
> >
> >
> >>would use the kit like Duckworks makes for Van's, I'd probably
> >>try to engineer something up for the -10. I hate to cut holes,
but
> >>as far as landing light positioning goes, it can hardly get
better
> >>than the leading edge if I can get them put there.
> >>
> >>Another cool feature is that I could put the mounts in both
wings, and
> >
> >
> >>use a HID in one and a plain lamp in the other for the time being
to
> >>save cash.
> >>
> >>Thanks!
> >>Tim
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> >>Tim@M...
> >>Wing Kit - Almost Complete
> >>QB Fuse - Coming soon!
> >>'77 Sundowner - Flying
> >>
> >>
> >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
clamav-milter version 0.80j
on hestia
Are any of you planning on installing Auto Pilots in your RV-10's? If so,
what unit? Thanks.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <retiredpilot03-serv(at)yahoo.com> |
Yes, I am planning on installing one, probably
the one that is built in with the Blue Mountain
Avionics EFIS.
Robert Vinroot
RV-10 Empennage
--- Jesse Saint wrote:
>
>
> Are any of you planning on installing Auto
> Pilots in your RV-10's? If so,
> what unit? Thanks.
>
>
> Jesse Saint
>
> I-TEC, Inc.
>
> jesse(at)itecusa.org
>
> www.itecusa.org
>
> W: 352-465-4545
>
> C: 352-427-0285
>
> F: 815-377-3694
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
I am planning on installing one of the TruTrak autopilots. Most likely
the Digiflight-IIVS, but that that decision is a long way off.
TruTrak's web site is here:
<http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/index.html>.
I may be less expensive to purchase the autopilot from a reseller that
can discount it rather than from trutrak directly.
Larry Rosen
RV-10 #356
>
>Are any of you planning on installing Auto Pilots in your RV-10's? If so,
>what unit? Thanks.
>
>
>Jesse Saint
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | H PAINE <bluebird266(at)dslextreme.com> |
Are any construction pictures available of the wings that someone could
email me?
H Paine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Schmo" <schmoboy(at)cox.net> |
I will most likely go with Trio Avionics if they have their pitch axis done
by the time I need it. Otherwise It will most likely be a TruTrak II.
Sean #40303
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Auto Pilot
I am planning on installing one of the TruTrak autopilots. Most likely
the Digiflight-IIVS, but that that decision is a long way off.
TruTrak's web site is here:
<http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/index.html>.
I may be less expensive to purchase the autopilot from a reseller that
can discount it rather than from trutrak directly.
Larry Rosen
RV-10 #356
>
>Are any of you planning on installing Auto Pilots in your RV-10's? If so,
>what unit? Thanks.
>
>
>Jesse Saint
>
>
>
>
--
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
--
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
Lots of them at http://www.myrv10.com
Look under my project....#170...one of the first few links on the page.
H PAINE wrote:
>
> Are any construction pictures available of the wings that someone could
> email me?
>
> H Paine
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com> |
You can check out some of my construction pictures here.
www.scottandranae.smugmug.com
Scott Schmidt
USSynthetic Product Manager
1260 South 1600 West
Orem UT 84058
Phone: 801-235-9001
Fax: 801-235-9141
Cell: 801-319-3094
sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of H PAINE
Subject: RV10-List: Pictures
Are any construction pictures available of the wings that someone could
email me?
H Paine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil White" <philwhite9(at)aol.com> |
Jesse: I've installed Tru-Trak's servo in the wing of my -10. I was
originally looking at their Pictorial Pilot, but now read that they have
gone one step further w/ ADI unit to be introduced at SnF.
I await details and pricing eagerly. Don't need the electronics for at
least a year, so...
Phil #40220 in IL (wings done, fuse about 20%)
> From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
> Subject: RV10-List: Auto Pilot
> clamav-milter version 0.80j
> on hestia
>
>
> Are any of you planning on installing Auto Pilots in your RV-10's? If
> so, what unit? Thanks.
>
> Jesse Saint
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
Sorry to say but that's just not true. The ADI instrument itself will be
released shortly for that long list you waiting! The incorporation of that
into an autopilot (ADI/Pilot) like the "Pictorial Pilot" which is the
pictorial T&B with an autopilot in it isn't in the works as of yet.
So, the ADI "pilot" from what I hear is quite a ways off--Probably not
before OSH at best. That being said, there is really no reason to "wait"
when it comes to TruTrak. They (and us) will gladly give you credit for
your current purchase towards the upgrade when it is avaiable. This is
fairly unique to TruTrak, but they've been standing behind it so far. For
example, if you buy a standard Digiflight II with no VS or GPSS, you can
upgrade it later for only the cost of the option.
Also, you can buy your servos separate from the controller at no pricing
penalty (at least from us) and buy the controller later.
Just a small clarification on the ADI & incorporation of an autopilot.
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Phil White
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Auto Pilot
Jesse: I've installed Tru-Trak's servo in the wing of my -10. I was
originally looking at their Pictorial Pilot, but now read that they have
gone one step further w/ ADI unit to be introduced at SnF.
I await details and pricing eagerly. Don't need the electronics for at
least a year, so...
Phil #40220 in IL (wings done, fuse about 20%)
> From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
> Subject: RV10-List: Auto Pilot
> clamav-milter version 0.80j
> on hestia
>
>
> Are any of you planning on installing Auto Pilots in your RV-10's? If
> so, what unit? Thanks.
>
> Jesse Saint
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
There are loads of pictures over on the Yahoo RV10 group files.
Dick Sipp
----- Original Message -----
From: "H PAINE" <bluebird266(at)dslextreme.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Pictures
>
> Are any construction pictures available of the wings that someone could
> email me?
>
> H Paine
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | H PAINE <bluebird266(at)dslextreme.com> |
Thanks everyone
Tons of great pictures. I was amazed to see no jig fixtures other than
little leading edge one,
ahh the wonders of matched hole tooling.
Harry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: [RV10] Practice kit or no? |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
I can also highly recommend the Sportair RV Assembly workshop. I took
the one in Denver and was very impressed. Besides, you build the Vans
practice kit in the workshop.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tommy Norman [mailto:tie-norman(at)comcast.net]
Subject: RE: [RV10] Practice kit or no?
I would save your time and money. The SportAir class will teach you
everything you need to get started. The plans are great on the -10. It
is like putting together an oversized model. :)
-----Original Message-----
From: paulfolbrecht [mailto:paulfolbrecht(at)yahoo.com]
Subject: [RV10] Practice kit or no?
I'm wondering if I should bother with the Van's practice kit before I
start with my tail or not. I'm taking the SportAir RV class, so my
thinking was that that should be plenty to prepare me, and doing the
practice kit as well is probably overkill. Thoughts?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum |
There is always the Matronics List-serv. Personally, I've been cross
posting to the RV-10 group on the Matronics list-serv in hopes to get
that one moving a little better. Especially with the annoying
"approval" delays we see in the yahoo group.
-----Original Message-----
From: Schmo [mailto:schmoboy(at)cox.net]
Subject: RE: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
I'd hope he would not pull the plug and rather hand the "creator" title
over to someone else.
-Sean
_____
From: townsetm [mailto:yooper(at)alum.mit.edu]
Subject: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
I think Doug said he was going to pull the plug on this Yahoo group
eventually, since he was the creator.
I like the new forums because of the multiple threads. I don't have
to keep reading about a sub-topic I'm not interested in . . .
TDT
--- In RV10(at)yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sked" wrote:
>
> Anyone considering slinking over to the Van's Airforce forum? Nice
> format and saves me from going to two different pages a day. Didn't
> think Doug would mind me asking since he has a hand in both.
>
> Rick S.
> 40185
> Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Schmo" <schmoboy(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum |
Ya, I'm on that list also, which would be an excellent alternative to the
Yahoo Group for us that like getting emails.
_____
From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen) [mailto:rvbuilder(at)sausen.net]
Subject: RE: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
There is always the Matronics List-serv. Personally, I've been cross
posting to the RV-10 group on the Matronics list-serv in hopes to get
that one moving a little better. Especially with the annoying
"approval" delays we see in the yahoo group.
-----Original Message-----
From: Schmo [mailto:schmoboy(at)cox.net]
Subject: RE: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
I'd hope he would not pull the plug and rather hand the "creator" title
over to someone else.
-Sean
_____
From: townsetm [mailto:yooper(at)alum.mit.edu]
Subject: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
I think Doug said he was going to pull the plug on this Yahoo group
eventually, since he was the creator.
I like the new forums because of the multiple threads. I don't have
to keep reading about a sub-topic I'm not interested in . . .
TDT
--- In RV10(at)yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sked" wrote:
>
> Anyone considering slinking over to the Van's Airforce forum? Nice
> format and saves me from going to two different pages a day. Didn't
> think Doug would mind me asking since he has a hand in both.
>
> Rick S.
> 40185
> Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vans Airforce Forum |
Listers,
Of course, I'm on board with the migration to the Matronics Lists. Tell a
friend! I just don't understand the attraction to those PHP-based web
forums for serious discussions. They're great for tech support
applications or where people just want to drivel on about nothing, but for
serious discussions that may or may not be of long term interest, the email
forum is the way to go. I really like the email distribution if for no
other reason that it keeps me plugged into what's going on. I've found
that web-based forums don't keep me coming back unless I have a specific
question. I've built filters on my email application (Eudora) that
automatically put all of the incoming List mail into specific email boxes
with the click of a button. Best of all, via the web I can go back and
search years worth of archives or just download the whole darn
archive. Yahoo and PHP forums just don't offer that.
The reason behind this potential "demise" of the Yahoo RV-10 list was
exactly the reason I was concerned when Doug setup all the alternate RV
lists on Yahoo. What happens to the list when he's not interested in
running it any longer? What happens to all of the archives (such as they
are)?
I've been running the RV Lists here on Matronics for 15 years and the
archives go back to the beginning. I've got a proven track record and I
don't plan on going anywhere. I take the job of running the Matronics
Lists *very* seriously and I hope it shows in the quality of service and
availability. If Doug is contemplating abandoning the Yahoo Groups RV
lists, then we really need to rally together to migrate everyone over to
the Matronics lists. Its where it all started and where it ought to be! :-)
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
At 07:05 PM 3/2/2005 Wednesday, you wrote:
>
>Ya, I'm on that list also, which would be an excellent alternative to the
>Yahoo Group for us that like getting emails.
>
> _____
>
>From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen) [mailto:rvbuilder(at)sausen.net]
>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com; RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
>
>
>There is always the Matronics List-serv. Personally, I've been cross
>posting to the RV-10 group on the Matronics list-serv in hopes to get
>that one moving a little better. Especially with the annoying
>"approval" delays we see in the yahoo group.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Schmo [mailto:schmoboy(at)cox.net]
>To: RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
>
>
>I'd hope he would not pull the plug and rather hand the "creator" title
>over to someone else.
>
>-Sean
>
> _____
>
>From: townsetm [mailto:yooper(at)alum.mit.edu]
>To: RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
>
>
>I think Doug said he was going to pull the plug on this Yahoo group
>eventually, since he was the creator.
>
>I like the new forums because of the multiple threads. I don't have
>to keep reading about a sub-topic I'm not interested in . . .
>
>TDT
>
>
>--- In RV10(at)yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sked" wrote:
> >
> > Anyone considering slinking over to the Van's Airforce forum? Nice
> > format and saves me from going to two different pages a day. Didn't
> > think Doug would mind me asking since he has a hand in both.
> >
> > Rick S.
> > 40185
> > Wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vans Airforce Forum |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
Got my vote!
Bob
--------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Vans Airforce Forum
Listers,
Of course, I'm on board with the migration to the Matronics Lists. Tell a
friend! I just don't understand the attraction to those PHP-based web
forums for serious discussions. They're great for tech support
applications or where people just want to drivel on about nothing, but for
serious discussions that may or may not be of long term interest, the email
forum is the way to go. I really like the email distribution if for no
other reason that it keeps me plugged into what's going on. I've found
that web-based forums don't keep me coming back unless I have a specific
question. I've built filters on my email application (Eudora) that
automatically put all of the incoming List mail into specific email boxes
with the click of a button. Best of all, via the web I can go back and
search years worth of archives or just download the whole darn
archive. Yahoo and PHP forums just don't offer that.
The reason behind this potential "demise" of the Yahoo RV-10 list was
exactly the reason I was concerned when Doug setup all the alternate RV
lists on Yahoo. What happens to the list when he's not interested in
running it any longer? What happens to all of the archives (such as they
are)?
I've been running the RV Lists here on Matronics for 15 years and the
archives go back to the beginning. I've got a proven track record and I
don't plan on going anywhere. I take the job of running the Matronics
Lists *very* seriously and I hope it shows in the quality of service and
availability. If Doug is contemplating abandoning the Yahoo Groups RV
lists, then we really need to rally together to migrate everyone over to
the Matronics lists. Its where it all started and where it ought to be! :-)
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
At 07:05 PM 3/2/2005 Wednesday, you wrote:
>
>Ya, I'm on that list also, which would be an excellent alternative to the
>Yahoo Group for us that like getting emails.
>
> _____
>
>From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen) [mailto:rvbuilder(at)sausen.net]
>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com; RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
>
>
>There is always the Matronics List-serv. Personally, I've been cross
>posting to the RV-10 group on the Matronics list-serv in hopes to get
>that one moving a little better. Especially with the annoying
>"approval" delays we see in the yahoo group.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Schmo [mailto:schmoboy(at)cox.net]
>To: RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
>
>
>I'd hope he would not pull the plug and rather hand the "creator" title
>over to someone else.
>
>-Sean
>
> _____
>
>From: townsetm [mailto:yooper(at)alum.mit.edu]
>To: RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
>
>
>I think Doug said he was going to pull the plug on this Yahoo group
>eventually, since he was the creator.
>
>I like the new forums because of the multiple threads. I don't have
>to keep reading about a sub-topic I'm not interested in . . .
>
>TDT
>
>
>--- In RV10(at)yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sked" wrote:
> >
> > Anyone considering slinking over to the Van's Airforce forum? Nice
> > format and saves me from going to two different pages a day. Didn't
> > think Doug would mind me asking since he has a hand in both.
> >
> > Rick S.
> > 40185
> > Wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Schmo" <schmoboy(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vans Airforce Forum |
2nd...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US
SSA)
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Vans Airforce Forum
Got my vote!
Bob
--------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Vans Airforce Forum
Listers,
Of course, I'm on board with the migration to the Matronics Lists. Tell a
friend! I just don't understand the attraction to those PHP-based web
forums for serious discussions. They're great for tech support
applications or where people just want to drivel on about nothing, but for
serious discussions that may or may not be of long term interest, the email
forum is the way to go. I really like the email distribution if for no
other reason that it keeps me plugged into what's going on. I've found
that web-based forums don't keep me coming back unless I have a specific
question. I've built filters on my email application (Eudora) that
automatically put all of the incoming List mail into specific email boxes
with the click of a button. Best of all, via the web I can go back and
search years worth of archives or just download the whole darn
archive. Yahoo and PHP forums just don't offer that.
The reason behind this potential "demise" of the Yahoo RV-10 list was
exactly the reason I was concerned when Doug setup all the alternate RV
lists on Yahoo. What happens to the list when he's not interested in
running it any longer? What happens to all of the archives (such as they
are)?
I've been running the RV Lists here on Matronics for 15 years and the
archives go back to the beginning. I've got a proven track record and I
don't plan on going anywhere. I take the job of running the Matronics
Lists *very* seriously and I hope it shows in the quality of service and
availability. If Doug is contemplating abandoning the Yahoo Groups RV
lists, then we really need to rally together to migrate everyone over to
the Matronics lists. Its where it all started and where it ought to be!
:-)
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
At 07:05 PM 3/2/2005 Wednesday, you wrote:
>
>Ya, I'm on that list also, which would be an excellent alternative to the
>Yahoo Group for us that like getting emails.
>
> _____
>
>From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen) [mailto:rvbuilder(at)sausen.net]
>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com; RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
>
>
>There is always the Matronics List-serv. Personally, I've been cross
>posting to the RV-10 group on the Matronics list-serv in hopes to get
>that one moving a little better. Especially with the annoying
>"approval" delays we see in the yahoo group.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Schmo [mailto:schmoboy(at)cox.net]
>To: RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
>
>
>I'd hope he would not pull the plug and rather hand the "creator" title
>over to someone else.
>
>-Sean
>
> _____
>
>From: townsetm [mailto:yooper(at)alum.mit.edu]
>To: RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
>
>
>I think Doug said he was going to pull the plug on this Yahoo group
>eventually, since he was the creator.
>
>I like the new forums because of the multiple threads. I don't have
>to keep reading about a sub-topic I'm not interested in . . .
>
>TDT
>
>
>--- In RV10(at)yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sked" wrote:
> >
> > Anyone considering slinking over to the Van's Airforce forum? Nice
> > format and saves me from going to two different pages a day. Didn't
> > think Doug would mind me asking since he has a hand in both.
> >
> > Rick S.
> > 40185
> > Wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vans Airforce Forum |
Yeah Matt, I do like some of the capabilities....but the thing that
stinks is that mongo footer at the bottom of each post. I count over
20 lines of instructions at the bottom of each post. If that was
turned off, I'd probably be migrating to yours....but even though
yahoo has an annoying footer, I'd have to say, it's not as annoying
as yours. Beyond that though, I'd be in full support. I'm an email
only forum reader. Like you said, the PHP-based sites are something
you visit when you only have a specific question. I'd absolutely
never follow one on a daily basis. Besides that, I work in a large
corporation...web use is tracked. My email box can fill up all
day though.
Tim
Matt Dralle wrote:
>
> Listers,
>
> Of course, I'm on board with the migration to the Matronics Lists. Tell a
> friend! I just don't understand the attraction to those PHP-based web
> forums for serious discussions. They're great for tech support
> applications or where people just want to drivel on about nothing, but for
> serious discussions that may or may not be of long term interest, the email
> forum is the way to go. I really like the email distribution if for no
> other reason that it keeps me plugged into what's going on. I've found
> that web-based forums don't keep me coming back unless I have a specific
> question. I've built filters on my email application (Eudora) that
> automatically put all of the incoming List mail into specific email boxes
> with the click of a button. Best of all, via the web I can go back and
> search years worth of archives or just download the whole darn
> archive. Yahoo and PHP forums just don't offer that.
>
> The reason behind this potential "demise" of the Yahoo RV-10 list was
> exactly the reason I was concerned when Doug setup all the alternate RV
> lists on Yahoo. What happens to the list when he's not interested in
> running it any longer? What happens to all of the archives (such as they
> are)?
>
> I've been running the RV Lists here on Matronics for 15 years and the
> archives go back to the beginning. I've got a proven track record and I
> don't plan on going anywhere. I take the job of running the Matronics
> Lists *very* seriously and I hope it shows in the quality of service and
> availability. If Doug is contemplating abandoning the Yahoo Groups RV
> lists, then we really need to rally together to migrate everyone over to
> the Matronics lists. Its where it all started and where it ought to be! :-)
>
> Best regards,
>
> Matt Dralle
>
>
> At 07:05 PM 3/2/2005 Wednesday, you wrote:
>
>>
>>Ya, I'm on that list also, which would be an excellent alternative to the
>>Yahoo Group for us that like getting emails.
>>
>> _____
>>
>>From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen) [mailto:rvbuilder(at)sausen.net]
>>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com; RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: RE: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
>>
>>
>>There is always the Matronics List-serv. Personally, I've been cross
>>posting to the RV-10 group on the Matronics list-serv in hopes to get
>>that one moving a little better. Especially with the annoying
>>"approval" delays we see in the yahoo group.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Schmo [mailto:schmoboy(at)cox.net]
>>To: RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: RE: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
>>
>>
>>I'd hope he would not pull the plug and rather hand the "creator" title
>>over to someone else.
>>
>>-Sean
>>
>> _____
>>
>>From: townsetm [mailto:yooper(at)alum.mit.edu]
>>To: RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
>>
>>
>>I think Doug said he was going to pull the plug on this Yahoo group
>>eventually, since he was the creator.
>>
>>I like the new forums because of the multiple threads. I don't have
>>to keep reading about a sub-topic I'm not interested in . . .
>>
>>TDT
>>
>>
>>--- In RV10(at)yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sked" wrote:
>>
>>>Anyone considering slinking over to the Van's Airforce forum? Nice
>>>format and saves me from going to two different pages a day. Didn't
>>>think Doug would mind me asking since he has a hand in both.
>>>
>>>Rick S.
>>>40185
>>>Wings
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vans Airforce Forum |
Thanks for the feedback, Tim. It is appreciated. The problem is that HUGE
footer was born out of necessity. As it is, I still get at least a couple
of emails a day asking, "how do I unsubscribe?", "how do I search the
archive?", "where's the FAQ?"... It serves a very real purpose, unlike the
most of the footer on the Yahoo lists.
Perhaps I could trim it down or maybe just put a single link with a web
page that listed all of the options. That sounds great, but is it really
the right answer? I just don't know. Would others miss the utility of
having the links at their finger tips?
Can you describe exactly what bothers you about the current footer,
really? For me in Eudora, unless I scroll all the way down to the bottom
of the message, I most of the time don't even notice it.
Really I'm open on this topic. I could go either way. What is other
people's opinion? Before you answer, think about how handy it is having
all of the major List tools just a click away at every message. Still,
maybe a single link that takes you to a page with all of the links would be
just as good...?
Your Listmister
Matt Dralle
At 07:56 PM 3/2/2005 Wednesday, Tim Olson wrote:
>
>Yeah Matt, I do like some of the capabilities....but the thing that
>stinks is that mongo footer at the bottom of each post. I count over
>20 lines of instructions at the bottom of each post. If that was
>turned off, I'd probably be migrating to yours....but even though
>yahoo has an annoying footer, I'd have to say, it's not as annoying
>as yours. Beyond that though, I'd be in full support. I'm an email
>only forum reader. Like you said, the PHP-based sites are something
>you visit when you only have a specific question. I'd absolutely
>never follow one on a daily basis. Besides that, I work in a large
>corporation...web use is tracked. My email box can fill up all
>day though.
>
>Tim
>
>
>Matt Dralle wrote:
> >
> > Listers,
> >
> > Of course, I'm on board with the migration to the Matronics Lists. Tell a
> > friend! I just don't understand the attraction to those PHP-based web
> > forums for serious discussions. They're great for tech support
> > applications or where people just want to drivel on about nothing, but for
> > serious discussions that may or may not be of long term interest, the
> email
> > forum is the way to go. I really like the email distribution if for no
> > other reason that it keeps me plugged into what's going on. I've found
> > that web-based forums don't keep me coming back unless I have a specific
> > question. I've built filters on my email application (Eudora) that
> > automatically put all of the incoming List mail into specific email boxes
> > with the click of a button. Best of all, via the web I can go back and
> > search years worth of archives or just download the whole darn
> > archive. Yahoo and PHP forums just don't offer that.
> >
> > The reason behind this potential "demise" of the Yahoo RV-10 list was
> > exactly the reason I was concerned when Doug setup all the alternate RV
> > lists on Yahoo. What happens to the list when he's not interested in
> > running it any longer? What happens to all of the archives (such as they
> > are)?
> >
> > I've been running the RV Lists here on Matronics for 15 years and the
> > archives go back to the beginning. I've got a proven track record and I
> > don't plan on going anywhere. I take the job of running the Matronics
> > Lists *very* seriously and I hope it shows in the quality of service and
> > availability. If Doug is contemplating abandoning the Yahoo Groups RV
> > lists, then we really need to rally together to migrate everyone over to
> > the Matronics lists. Its where it all started and where it ought to
> be! :-)
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Matt Dralle
> >
> >
> > At 07:05 PM 3/2/2005 Wednesday, you wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>Ya, I'm on that list also, which would be an excellent alternative to the
> >>Yahoo Group for us that like getting emails.
> >>
> >> _____
> >>
> >>From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen) [mailto:rvbuilder(at)sausen.net]
> >>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com; RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
> >>Subject: RE: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
> >>
> >>
> >>There is always the Matronics List-serv. Personally, I've been cross
> >>posting to the RV-10 group on the Matronics list-serv in hopes to get
> >>that one moving a little better. Especially with the annoying
> >>"approval" delays we see in the yahoo group.
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Schmo [mailto:schmoboy(at)cox.net]
> >>To: RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
> >>Subject: RE: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
> >>
> >>
> >>I'd hope he would not pull the plug and rather hand the "creator" title
> >>over to someone else.
> >>
> >>-Sean
> >>
> >> _____
> >>
> >>From: townsetm [mailto:yooper(at)alum.mit.edu]
> >>To: RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
> >>Subject: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
> >>
> >>
> >>I think Doug said he was going to pull the plug on this Yahoo group
> >>eventually, since he was the creator.
> >>
> >>I like the new forums because of the multiple threads. I don't have
> >>to keep reading about a sub-topic I'm not interested in . . .
> >>
> >>TDT
> >>
> >>
> >>--- In RV10(at)yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sked" wrote:
> >>
> >>>Anyone considering slinking over to the Van's Airforce forum? Nice
> >>>format and saves me from going to two different pages a day. Didn't
> >>>think Doug would mind me asking since he has a hand in both.
> >>>
> >>>Rick S.
> >>>40185
> >>>Wings
> >>
> >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vans Airforce Forum |
Talk about customer service....man that was a quick reply, Matt! :)
I've been on tons of lists, and yeah, we get the people asking "how do
I unsubscribe?" , or saying "PLEASE unsubscribe me". That happens
everywhere, and managing a ton of lists like you do can cause the
headaches I'm sure.
I was thinking the same thing as you mentioned....a SINGLE link
that says something like "For assistance in unsubscribing, posting, or
any other services, click this link" (or send an email to this address)
One link ought to be enough.
My problem with it is that it's unsightly, and it wastes space. Space
is a very real concern if you read a few lists like I do: Musketeer,
local EAA, MN Wing RV, RV10@yahoo, RV-10Matronics, GRT_EFIS,
Aeroelectric, and even a handful more. In fact, if you notice below,
when I replied to this email, it kept the footers of everything from
yahoogroups, your email footer, AVG virus scans, and the matronics
list instructions. I'm sure people call me long-winded, but hey,
the footer garbage in this email is longer than the text!
It isn't just here that bothers me....every day, working in the
healthcare industry, I email back and forth with other healthcare
professionals. When I send out, our stinkin' server tags on a lengthy
privacy notice. When I get their email back, it has their notice.
After a few back and forth conversations, the footers are much more
huge than the message. Most people do not take the time to trim out
that garbage when they reply....I usually do.
I just don't want to view unsightly long emails, and be party to
propogating decreased bandwidth from junk footers, AND, increase my
mail programs space usage which is already hundreds of Mb Big.
I know you said "think about how handy it is having those links..."
but you know what, I've never once had a reason to use one, and
can't imagine a time in the next year when I will. I stand by my
statement that the ONLY reason I'm not 100% behind you, and am still
committed to yahoo, is that huge stinkin' footer. I even donated
to your list...just because it seemed like a good thing to do for
the RV-10 community. (Not that I expect that to influence anything)
Too bad you can't make that footer an optional thing on a per-user
basis. That would be ideal.
It's a great service, and you run it very respectably. It will be
the place I'd go if Yahoo got too bad. If we had to go to PHP
forums though, I think I'd probably just drop out of the general
discussion community altogether...I'd probably get more building
done that way. :)
Tim
RV-10 #40170
Matt Dralle wrote:
>
> Thanks for the feedback, Tim. It is appreciated. The problem is that
> HUGE footer was born out of necessity. As it is, I still get at least a
> couple of emails a day asking, "how do I unsubscribe?", "how do I search
> the archive?", "where's the FAQ?"... It serves a very real purpose,
> unlike the most of the footer on the Yahoo lists.
>
> Perhaps I could trim it down or maybe just put a single link with a web
> page that listed all of the options. That sounds great, but is it
> really the right answer? I just don't know. Would others miss the
> utility of having the links at their finger tips?
>
> Can you describe exactly what bothers you about the current footer,
> really? For me in Eudora, unless I scroll all the way down to the
> bottom of the message, I most of the time don't even notice it.
>
> Really I'm open on this topic. I could go either way. What is other
> people's opinion? Before you answer, think about how handy it is having
> all of the major List tools just a click away at every message. Still,
> maybe a single link that takes you to a page with all of the links would
> be just as good...?
>
> Your Listmister
> Matt Dralle
>
>
> At 07:56 PM 3/2/2005 Wednesday, Tim Olson wrote:
>
>>
>> Yeah Matt, I do like some of the capabilities....but the thing that
>> stinks is that mongo footer at the bottom of each post. I count over
>> 20 lines of instructions at the bottom of each post. If that was
>> turned off, I'd probably be migrating to yours....but even though
>> yahoo has an annoying footer, I'd have to say, it's not as annoying
>> as yours. Beyond that though, I'd be in full support. I'm an email
>> only forum reader. Like you said, the PHP-based sites are something
>> you visit when you only have a specific question. I'd absolutely
>> never follow one on a daily basis. Besides that, I work in a large
>> corporation...web use is tracked. My email box can fill up all
>> day though.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> Matt Dralle wrote:
>> >
>> > Listers,
>> >
>> > Of course, I'm on board with the migration to the Matronics Lists.
>> Tell a
>> > friend! I just don't understand the attraction to those PHP-based web
>> > forums for serious discussions. They're great for tech support
>> > applications or where people just want to drivel on about nothing,
>> but for
>> > serious discussions that may or may not be of long term interest,
>> the email
>> > forum is the way to go. I really like the email distribution if for no
>> > other reason that it keeps me plugged into what's going on. I've found
>> > that web-based forums don't keep me coming back unless I have a
>> specific
>> > question. I've built filters on my email application (Eudora) that
>> > automatically put all of the incoming List mail into specific email
>> boxes
>> > with the click of a button. Best of all, via the web I can go back and
>> > search years worth of archives or just download the whole darn
>> > archive. Yahoo and PHP forums just don't offer that.
>> >
>> > The reason behind this potential "demise" of the Yahoo RV-10 list was
>> > exactly the reason I was concerned when Doug setup all the alternate RV
>> > lists on Yahoo. What happens to the list when he's not interested in
>> > running it any longer? What happens to all of the archives (such as
>> they
>> > are)?
>> >
>> > I've been running the RV Lists here on Matronics for 15 years and the
>> > archives go back to the beginning. I've got a proven track record
>> and I
>> > don't plan on going anywhere. I take the job of running the Matronics
>> > Lists *very* seriously and I hope it shows in the quality of service
>> and
>> > availability. If Doug is contemplating abandoning the Yahoo Groups RV
>> > lists, then we really need to rally together to migrate everyone
>> over to
>> > the Matronics lists. Its where it all started and where it ought to
>> be! :-)
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> >
>> > Matt Dralle
>> >
>> >
>> > At 07:05 PM 3/2/2005 Wednesday, you wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>Ya, I'm on that list also, which would be an excellent alternative
>> to the
>> >>Yahoo Group for us that like getting emails.
>> >>
>> >> _____
>> >>
>> >>From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen) [mailto:rvbuilder(at)sausen.net]
>> >>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com; RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
>> >>Subject: RE: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>There is always the Matronics List-serv. Personally, I've been cross
>> >>posting to the RV-10 group on the Matronics list-serv in hopes to get
>> >>that one moving a little better. Especially with the annoying
>> >>"approval" delays we see in the yahoo group.
>> >>
>> >>-----Original Message-----
>> >>From: Schmo [mailto:schmoboy(at)cox.net]
>> >>To: RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
>> >>Subject: RE: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>I'd hope he would not pull the plug and rather hand the "creator" title
>> >>over to someone else.
>> >>
>> >>-Sean
>> >>
>> >> _____
>> >>
>> >>From: townsetm [mailto:yooper(at)alum.mit.edu]
>> >>To: RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
>> >>Subject: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>I think Doug said he was going to pull the plug on this Yahoo group
>> >>eventually, since he was the creator.
>> >>
>> >>I like the new forums because of the multiple threads. I don't have
>> >>to keep reading about a sub-topic I'm not interested in . . .
>> >>
>> >>TDT
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>--- In RV10(at)yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sked" wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Anyone considering slinking over to the Van's Airforce forum? Nice
>> >>>format and saves me from going to two different pages a day. Didn't
>> >>>think Doug would mind me asking since he has a hand in both.
>> >>>
>> >>>Rick S.
>> >>>40185
>> >>>Wings
>> >>
>> >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vans Airforce Forum |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
I think that the single link to a web page would be an excellent
solution!
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Vans Airforce Forum
Thanks for the feedback, Tim. It is appreciated. The problem is that
HUGE footer was born out of necessity. As it is, I still get at least a
couple of emails a day asking, "how do I unsubscribe?", "how do I search
the archive?", "where's the FAQ?"... It serves a very real purpose,
unlike the most of the footer on the Yahoo lists.
Perhaps I could trim it down or maybe just put a single link with a web
page that listed all of the options. That sounds great, but is it
really the right answer? I just don't know. Would others miss the
utility of having the links at their finger tips?
Can you describe exactly what bothers you about the current footer,
really? For me in Eudora, unless I scroll all the way down to the
bottom of the message, I most of the time don't even notice it.
Really I'm open on this topic. I could go either way. What is other
people's opinion? Before you answer, think about how handy it is having
all of the major List tools just a click away at every message. Still,
maybe a single link that takes you to a page with all of the links would
be just as good...?
Your Listmister
Matt Dralle
At 07:56 PM 3/2/2005 Wednesday, Tim Olson wrote:
>
>Yeah Matt, I do like some of the capabilities....but the thing that
>stinks is that mongo footer at the bottom of each post. I count over
>20 lines of instructions at the bottom of each post. If that was
>turned off, I'd probably be migrating to yours....but even though yahoo
>has an annoying footer, I'd have to say, it's not as annoying as yours.
>Beyond that though, I'd be in full support. I'm an email only forum
>reader. Like you said, the PHP-based sites are something you visit
>when you only have a specific question. I'd absolutely never follow
>one on a daily basis. Besides that, I work in a large
>corporation...web use is tracked. My email box can fill up all day
>though.
>
>Tim
>
>
>Matt Dralle wrote:
> >
> > Listers,
> >
> > Of course, I'm on board with the migration to the Matronics Lists.
> > Tell a friend! I just don't understand the attraction to those
> > PHP-based web forums for serious discussions. They're great for
> > tech support applications or where people just want to drivel on
> > about nothing, but for serious discussions that may or may not be of
> > long term interest, the
> email
> > forum is the way to go. I really like the email distribution if for
> > no other reason that it keeps me plugged into what's going on. I've
> > found that web-based forums don't keep me coming back unless I have
> > a specific question. I've built filters on my email application
> > (Eudora) that automatically put all of the incoming List mail into
> > specific email boxes with the click of a button. Best of all, via
> > the web I can go back and search years worth of archives or just
> > download the whole darn archive. Yahoo and PHP forums just don't
offer that.
> >
> > The reason behind this potential "demise" of the Yahoo RV-10 list
> > was exactly the reason I was concerned when Doug setup all the
> > alternate RV lists on Yahoo. What happens to the list when he's not
> > interested in running it any longer? What happens to all of the
> > archives (such as they are)?
> >
> > I've been running the RV Lists here on Matronics for 15 years and
> > the archives go back to the beginning. I've got a proven track
> > record and I don't plan on going anywhere. I take the job of
> > running the Matronics Lists *very* seriously and I hope it shows in
> > the quality of service and availability. If Doug is contemplating
> > abandoning the Yahoo Groups RV lists, then we really need to rally
> > together to migrate everyone over to the Matronics lists. Its where
> > it all started and where it ought to
> be! :-)
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Matt Dralle
> >
> >
> > At 07:05 PM 3/2/2005 Wednesday, you wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>Ya, I'm on that list also, which would be an excellent alternative
> >>to the Yahoo Group for us that like getting emails.
> >>
> >> _____
> >>
> >>From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen) [mailto:rvbuilder(at)sausen.net]
> >>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com; RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
> >>Subject: RE: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
> >>
> >>
> >>There is always the Matronics List-serv. Personally, I've been
> >>cross posting to the RV-10 group on the Matronics list-serv in hopes
> >>to get that one moving a little better. Especially with the
> >>annoying "approval" delays we see in the yahoo group.
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Schmo [mailto:schmoboy(at)cox.net]
> >>To: RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
> >>Subject: RE: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
> >>
> >>
> >>I'd hope he would not pull the plug and rather hand the "creator"
> >>title over to someone else.
> >>
> >>-Sean
> >>
> >> _____
> >>
> >>From: townsetm [mailto:yooper(at)alum.mit.edu]
> >>To: RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
> >>Subject: [RV10] Re: Vans Airforce Forum
> >>
> >>
> >>I think Doug said he was going to pull the plug on this Yahoo group
> >>eventually, since he was the creator.
> >>
> >>I like the new forums because of the multiple threads. I don't have
> >>to keep reading about a sub-topic I'm not interested in . . .
> >>
> >>TDT
> >>
> >>
> >>--- In RV10(at)yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sked" wrote:
> >>
> >>>Anyone considering slinking over to the Van's Airforce forum? Nice
> >>>format and saves me from going to two different pages a day. Didn't
> >>>think Doug would mind me asking since he has a hand in both.
> >>>
> >>>Rick S.
> >>>40185
> >>>Wings
> >>
> >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cory Emberson" <bootless(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Builder Feedback Requested for Kitplanes Article (Alternative |
Engines)
Hello everyone,
I've subscribed (quietly) to this list for a little more than a year, and
would like to hear from you if you're a builder who has successfully
installed and flown an alternative engine in your plane. I'm writing a
builder's roundup for Kitplanes magazine, and am looking for an installation
that's flown for a minimum of 150 hours, and is currently flying.
For the builders that we profile, the magazine will also be able to pay you
$100 for the write-up. We would also need at least 2-3 good photos,
including a close-up of the engine and an overall shot of the aircraft.
Additional photos would be great, and all photos will be returned. If you
have digital photos, it is very important that they be high-resolution, at
least 300 dpi.
I have a list of specific areas to address if you'd like to participate, but
we can handle that off-line.
Please feel free to contact me off-line at:
cory @ lightspeededit.com (remove the spaces - my anti-spam protection)
or reply offline to my list email address.
I have a rather short deadline, so if you're able to contact me as soon as
you're able, I would greatly appreciate it!
Thank you so much!
best,
Cory Emberson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cory Emberson" <bootless(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Builder Feedback Requested for Kitplanes Article (Alternative |
Engines)
To all -
I received a very kind email from Dan Lloyd, letting me know that there were
no customer-built RV-10s just yet. Sorry about that!
best, Cory
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vans Airforce Forum |
I read all the groups I belong to in digest form. When people do not
trim the emails and leave everything attached my finger on the mouse
wheel begins to ache. :-} Only a minor gripe.
Larry Rosen
RV-10 #356
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
clamav-milter version 0.80j
on apollo
Is anybody expecting to receive a finishing kit in March for the RV-10 that
isn't ready for it and may be interested in switching for a "first week of
April" shipping date? Just a long shot, but we are going to be hurting for
it if it doesn't come until April.
Thanks guys!
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alodine Powder Supplier? |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
All,
I'm trying to find a distributor that will sell about a pound of
Alodine in it's powdered form. It goes by either Alodine 1200s or
Iridite 14-2. I don't see the point of paying the large amount of extra
dollars, not to mention hazmat handling charges, for water. Trying to
find a distributor is turning out to be much more difficult than I
expected. None seem to want to deal in small quantities and none of the
local paint supply houses carry it, or they have it in liquid and charge
more than AS and Wicks.
BTW, I'm in the DFW area.
Thanks,
Michael Sausen
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Yard Store rebuilt squeeze *caution* |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
All,
This is my own fault for assuming but I wanted to pass it along anyway
to anyone considering getting a pneumatic squeeze. Be sure they have an
adjustable set holder. The item "12310 Rebuilt C Squeeze" The Yard
Store carries doesn't have one and when I called they just said that if
it does they will list it in the description. My only experience has
been with adjustable so I didn't even know that it could have a fixed
holder They didn't really seem to care when I mentioned that they
should say that it isn't adjustable on the website. They did offer a
refund if I sent it back at my expense.
My solution was to take the adjustable one out of my hand squeeze.
Just wanted everyone to be mindful when dealing with them that they need
to not assume anything. They didn't cheat me but they didn't exactly
seem to care that I wasn't happy.
Michael Sausen
RV-10 40352
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-List: Re: Yard Store rebuilt squeeze *caution* |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
As I said, I don't feel that I was cheated and I'm not saying that they
did anything wrong. The caution is merely to new builders that might
not know the difference. My only experience with squeezers was that
they were adjustable so I had no idea. My new hand squeeze from Avery
was adjustable.
Sub $300 for a pneumatic squeeze is a good deal no matter how you look
at it, I just would have like to have known about the lack of adjustment
so I could have ordered one with it. That's why I posted, so other
people would know. BTW, their pneumatic cleco squeeze is great! But
stay away from the individual oilers for $5, they leak into the line
when not in use.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Scott
Subject: RV-List: Re: Yard Store rebuilt squeeze *caution*
--> RV-List message posted by: Richard Scott
Neither Avery nor Cleaveland indicate that an adjustable set holder
comes with their squeezer and they both sell one separately, suggesting
theirs also come with fixed set holders. I don't see any difference
with The Yard. Maybe they could have been more understanding about your
mistake, but it appears to me that is was your mistake.
The Yard folks have always given me good service and on one occasion
adjusted their price to me to meet the competition's price. Also, their
shipping cost on small items is a better deal, as they charge only
actual cost.
You may also note that their price was almost $200 cheaper than that
charged by Clear Air Tools
http://clearairtools.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=CA
&Category_Code=PRS
for their rebuilt squeezers, so you got a pretty good deal.
BTW, when you want additional yokes, Clear Air seems to have the best
deals.
Richard Scott
RV-9A Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV-10 MT Propeller group buy |
Hi All,
Van's Aircraft has the RV-10 MT Propeller for the Lycoming 540 engine listed
in the new products portion of their online catalog. MTV-12-B/193-53
List price for this propeller is $9,380. Van's is offering it for $8,060.
As part of a group buy, I am offering the MTV-12-B/193-53 propeller and
spinner for $7,100.
If you are interested, please contact me directly for details.
_LessDragProd(at)aol.com_ (mailto:LessDragProd(at)aol.com)
Regards,
Jim Ayers
_LessDragProd(at)aol.com_ (mailto:LessDragProd(at)aol.com)
Less Drag Products, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu> |
| Subject: | RVers near Alice Springs, Australia? |
Listers,
I'll be in Alice Springs, Australia during March 6-22. Any RVers in the
area care to get together?
Tim Lewis
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 740 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: [RV10] Re: Message approval by who ever |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
Agreed. Personally I don't pay attention to the billboard at the bottom
of Matt's list and don't feel it is any worse than the one Yahoo adds on
the bottom. In a pure space sense, Yahoo's billboard is worse in my
opinion.
Doug's intention is to replace this medium with the Forums at some point
in time. When I had a brief email exchange a couple weeks ago about
this he had said that the max number of moderators is 3 and it was at
that number. He didn't seem to interested in changing the moderators so
it was left at that.
Two things I want to add. Chuck is the most active moderator and the
only one I have ever seen pipe up when this subject comes up so don't
shoot the messenger. I personally thank him for taking the time to
moderate the group. I also thank Doug for all the time he gives to the
RV community. He's been an invaluable resource.
That being said, I don't think he has the bandwidth to manage an active
group such as this. Many of us have expressed our displeasure with the
length of time it takes to get messages approved. Doug seems to have
the impression that the groups have to be moderated in order to keep
things civil and he's had experiences that back that up. Maybe it's his
high profile that brings some of the hooligans (been a long time since I
could use that word :-)) to his groups but I have yet to belong to a
real-time group that can't manage it's own membership. Personally, I
think it's his way of forcing us over to the Forums that are
instantaneous. However, short of someone sleeping on their keyboard
with a monkey that slaps them on the back of the head when a new message
arrives, there is no way to keep things flowing with only 3 moderators.
I'm willing to bet Doug would be more than happy to drop this group if
he knew everyone was moving to another.
We have a very viable alternative in Matt's list serv. It already hosts
a dozen very active lists and is just as easy to use. I know Matt
thought it would be a good alternative to have a single URL at the
bottom of posts rather than the multiple but I don't know why he never
implemented it. He usually lurks around this list so maybe he can
answer that personally. The Mattronics lists also provide digest
functionality for those that would rather have that.
So the only way to get anything close to real-time posts is to move. I
suggest that anyone who is not a member of the RV-10 Matronics list, go
to http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/ and subscribe to it.
My $0.99
Michael Sausen
RV-10 40352
-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Stephens [mailto:schmoboy(at)cox.net]
Subject: Re: [RV10] Re: Message approval by who ever
I third matronics. No moderation. I'm already subscribed to that list.
I think Doug is planning on closing this Yahoo list eventually anyhow,
so I'd suggest that those of us that prefer the email delivery mechanism
start posting there.
-Sean #40303
John W. Cox wrote:
>
> I second Tim's response on Matronics. They don't strip attachments,
> they have a good search engine and the messages don't go stale waiting
> for someone to screen content for compliance.
>
>
> My review of two differing Matronics boards have always been great
> except for the obvious billboard at the bottom which could be
> accomplished with a single URL link. A comment Tim has already made
> and has gone unheeded. The value of having quick URL links and
> instant graphics and photos for reference should not be discounted to
> builders.
>
>
> John Cox - KUAO
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Tim Olson [mailto:tim(at)MyRV10.com]
> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 6:56 PM
> To: RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [RV10] Re: Message approval by who ever
>
>
> Actually, this is very much a live customer support facility. I feel
> a duty to answer questions that people have, in return for my ability
> to ask them when I need help too. It's a big shame that the forum
> has to be so moderated. I was around all day long except for about
> 2 hours. Constantly at my keyboard. If I had been moderating, I'd
> have been able to approve messages at least hourly today. I think
> since there's a 4 moderator limit, they should look at who they're
> choosing to moderate on these weekend days. Perhaps there could be
> 3 moderators and a rotated "open" spot for someone to fill each
> weekend if they're going to be around.
>
> If we can't work this out, I say lets go to Matronics for our list,
> and that's from someone who has been one of the biggest people in
> favor of keeping it how it is. Sorry Mani, I know how you feel, man.
> Tim
>
> Chuck Chappell wrote:
> >
> > Mani,
> >
> > I am sorry you had to wait 8-9 hours for a message approval and by
> > all means if you like the other forum better that is what you should
> > use. Some of us prefer the email method.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
| Subject: | One Ping for Effect |
0.04 FORGED_IMS_TAGS IMS mailers can't send HTML in this format
Switching over at 23:00Z, time now 18:48Z. Four hours and 12 minutes to go.
Looking towards something more than just 0 messages on my daily RV-10
matronics reflector. Maybe we can put a smile on Mani's face this weekend.
Matt hope you don't mind the traffic. Now I get to read Lancair and Yak
posts just like RV-10.
John W. Cox
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: One Ping for Effect |
I am here also, monitoring as usual, waiting for traffic.
Larry
John W. Cox wrote:
>
>Switching over at 23:00Z, time now 18:48Z. Four hours and 12 minutes to go.
>Looking towards something more than just 0 messages on my daily RV-10
>matronics reflector. Maybe we can put a smile on Mani's face this weekend.
>Matt hope you don't mind the traffic. Now I get to read Lancair and Yak
>posts just like RV-10.
>
>
>John W. Cox
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: One Ping for Effect |
Ping Back... :)
Works been bizzy, can't find time to finish my emp fairings before the
wings get here in 8 weeks. :(
-Sean #303
John W. Cox wrote:
>
>Switching over at 23:00Z, time now 18:48Z. Four hours and 12 minutes to go.
>Looking towards something more than just 0 messages on my daily RV-10
>matronics reflector. Maybe we can put a smile on Mani's face this weekend.
>Matt hope you don't mind the traffic. Now I get to read Lancair and Yak
>posts just like RV-10.
>
>
>John W. Cox
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | New Feature Requests Added To RV10-List!! |
Dear RV10-Listers!
At the request of Tim Olson and other on the RV10-List at Matronics and the
RV10 forum at YahooGroups, I have made some modifications to the operation
of the RV10-List. Of particular interest to folks on this list is the
significant trimming of the usual banner at the bottom of each
post. You'll notice that I've dropped it down to a single URL link now
that redirects to a new web page that contains all of the usual links to
the Search Engine, List Browse, Photoshare, etc. Hopefully everyone will
like the new, svelter banner!
Another new feature I've added specifically to the RV10-List, is the
ability to post a limited number of file types along with the
messages. The currently supported enclosure types include "vcf, jpg, gif,
txt, xls, pdf, and doc". When one of these file types are included along
with a List Message, the enclosure will be forwarded to everyone on the
List, but it is important to note that it will *not* be included in the
Archive file. Only the plain-text portion of the message will be appended
to the Archive. Here is a sample .jpg photo enclosure:
[]
Finally, I just want to confirm that there is currently no form of
moderation on any of the Matronics Email Lisst, and want to state that I
don't personally believe in it. We are all adults here and we are all
quite capable of moderating ourselves and what we post for public perusal.
I want to make this List what you guys want it to be (within reason, of
course), so please let me know if you would like to see new features or
operational modes.
Welcome!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Feature Requests Added To RV10-List!! |
groups.
Keep up the good work. We all appreciate your willingness to field
requests.
-Sean #40303
Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>
> Dear RV10-Listers!
>
> At the request of Tim Olson and other on the RV10-List at Matronics
> and the RV10 forum at YahooGroups, I have made some modifications to
> the operation of the RV10-List. Of particular interest to folks on
> this list is the significant trimming of the usual banner at the
> bottom of each post. You'll notice that I've dropped it down to a
> single URL link now that redirects to a new web page that contains all
> of the usual links to the Search Engine, List Browse, Photoshare,
> etc. Hopefully everyone will like the new, svelter banner!
>
> Another new feature I've added specifically to the RV10-List, is the
> ability to post a limited number of file types along with the
> messages. The currently supported enclosure types include "vcf, jpg,
> gif, txt, xls, pdf, and doc". When one of these file types are
> included along with a List Message, the enclosure will be forwarded to
> everyone on the List, but it is important to note that it will *not*
> be included in the Archive file. Only the plain-text portion of the
> message will be appended to the Archive. Here is a sample .jpg photo
> enclosure:
>
> []
>
> Finally, I just want to confirm that there is currently no form of
> moderation on any of the Matronics Email Lisst, and want to state that
> I don't personally believe in it. We are all adults here and we are
> all quite capable of moderating ourselves and what we post for public
> perusal.
>
> I want to make this List what you guys want it to be (within reason,
> of course), so please let me know if you would like to see new
> features or operational modes.
>
> Welcome!
>
> Matt Dralle
> Matronics Email List Administrator
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New Feature Requests Added To RV10-List!! |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
Matt,
That's great. I'm glad to see that someone is flexible around here.
;-) Look forward to seeing the list membership grow.
Michael
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Subject: RV10-List: New Feature Requests Added To RV10-List!!
Dear RV10-Listers!
At the request of Tim Olson and other on the RV10-List at Matronics and
the RV10 forum at YahooGroups, I have made some modifications to the
operation of the RV10-List. Of particular interest to folks on this
list is the significant trimming of the usual banner at the bottom of
each post. You'll notice that I've dropped it down to a single URL link
now that redirects to a new web page that contains all of the usual
links to the Search Engine, List Browse, Photoshare, etc. Hopefully
everyone will like the new, svelter banner!
Another new feature I've added specifically to the RV10-List, is the
ability to post a limited number of file types along with the messages.
The currently supported enclosure types include "vcf, jpg, gif, txt,
xls, pdf, and doc". When one of these file types are included along
with a List Message, the enclosure will be forwarded to everyone on the
List, but it is important to note that it will *not* be included in the
Archive file. Only the plain-text portion of the message will be
appended to the Archive. Here is a sample .jpg photo enclosure:
Finally, I just want to confirm that there is currently no form of
moderation on any of the Matronics Email Lisst, and want to state that I
don't personally believe in it. We are all adults here and we are all
quite capable of moderating ourselves and what we post for public
perusal.
I want to make this List what you guys want it to be (within reason, of
course), so please let me know if you would like to see new features or
operational modes.
Welcome!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
| Subject: | New Feature Requests Added To RV10-List!! |
Matt, count me in next year when you do your annual request for
contributions. Your response to our requests is encouraging.... And for
most posters, they don't know you flew in a Red Star CJ-6 but was glad to
see you wearing the GIB chute.
John
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: New Feature Requests Added To RV10-List!!
Matt,
That's great. I'm glad to see that someone is flexible around here. ;-)
Look forward to seeing the list membership grow.
Michael
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Subject: RV10-List: New Feature Requests Added To RV10-List!!
Dear RV10-Listers!
At the request of Tim Olson and other on the RV10-List at Matronics and the
RV10 forum at YahooGroups, I have made some modifications to the operation
of the RV10-List. Of particular interest to folks on this list is the
significant trimming of the usual banner at the bottom of each post. You'll
notice that I've dropped it down to a single URL link now that redirects to
a new web page that contains all of the usual links to the Search Engine,
List Browse, Photoshare, etc. Hopefully everyone will like the new, svelter
banner!
Another new feature I've added specifically to the RV10-List, is the ability
to post a limited number of file types along with the messages. The
currently supported enclosure types include "vcf, jpg, gif, txt, xls, pdf,
and doc". When one of these file types are included along with a List
Message, the enclosure will be forwarded to everyone on the List, but it is
important to note that it will *not* be included in the Archive file. Only
the plain-text portion of the message will be appended to the Archive. Here
is a sample .jpg photo enclosure:
[]
Finally, I just want to confirm that there is currently no form of
moderation on any of the Matronics Email Lisst, and want to state that I
don't personally believe in it. We are all adults here and we are all quite
capable of moderating ourselves and what we post for public perusal.
I want to make this List what you guys want it to be (within reason, of
course), so please let me know if you would like to see new features or
operational modes.
Welcome!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt, count me in next year when you do
your annual request for contributions. Your response to our requests is
encouraging.... And for most posters, they don't know you flew in a Red
Star CJ-6 but was glad to see you wearing the GIB chute.
John
From:
owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]
On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael
Sausen)
PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: New
Feature Requests Added To RV10-List!!
Matt,
That's great. I'm glad to see
that someone is flexible around here. ;-) Look forward to seeing
the list membership grow.
Michael
From:
owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
Behalf Of Matt Dralle
PM
Subject: RV10-List: New Feature
Requests Added To RV10-List!!
Dear RV10-Listers!
At the request of Tim Olson and other on the RV10-List at Matronics and the
RV10 forum at YahooGroups, I have made some modifications to the operation of
the RV10-List. Of particular interest to folks on this list is the
significant trimming of the usual banner at the bottom of each post.
You'll notice that I've dropped it down to a single URL link now that redirects
to a new web page that contains all of the usual links to the Search Engine,
List Browse, Photoshare, etc. Hopefully everyone will like the new,
svelter banner!
Another new feature I've added specifically to the RV10-List, is the ability to
post a limited number of file types along with the messages. The
currently supported enclosure types include vcf, jpg, gif, txt, xls, pdf,
and doc. When one of these file types are included along with a
List Message, the enclosure will be forwarded to everyone on the List, but it
is important to note that it will *not* be included in the Archive file.
Only the plain-text portion of the message will be appended to the
Archive. Here is a sample .jpg photo enclosure:
![[]](cid:image001.jpg(at)01C52D53.E77AFE20)
Finally, I just want to confirm that there is currently no form of moderation
on any of the Matronics Email Lisst, and want to state that I don't personally
believe in it. We are all adults here and we are all quite capable of
moderating ourselves and what we post for public perusal.
I want to make this List what you guys want it to be (within reason, of
course), so please let me know if you would like to see new features or
operational modes.
Welcome!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | IMPORTANT: Moving to Matronics as RV-10 list home |
Hi all, especially members of the RV10(at)yahoogroups.com list.
With the recent re-statement of moderation policies on the Yahoogroups
list, and the rehash of the "stay or go" debate, I wanted to annouce
that I now verified that we have sufficient momentum to make the switch
to the Matronics RV10-List. http://www.matronics.com/subscription/
Before you read on, note that this is not a battle or war of any kind.
Most people universally agree that the annoyances of yahoo hinder it's
value, but the moderation issue, along with some of the new Matronics
improvements, have just brought the momentum to change, and it's time
to cut the cord on yahoo and move on.
In addition, Matt Dralle has done some work as well, to make Matronics
more pleasant for us. We'll now have limited attachment posting
abilities, and the mongo footer is also shortened. Matronics should
serve as a good, searchable archive of past posts, and I'm sure
that it will now make a fantastic replacement for the yahoogroups
list.
The Yahoogroups list will not necessarily be totally abandoned. I have
talked to some long-term members and most of us will continue to
monitor the Yahoogroups list, but when a question is posed to the
list, a response will be made on the MATRONICS list. The yahoo
list will possibly get a courtesy "see the reply at Matronics" posting
to let the group know where it can see the information that was
requested. This is to ensure that the majority of the "old"
list, finds their way to the "new" list.
**** For those users that I have not talked to personally, if you
can do so, try to do your "real" posts to respond to any questions
on the Matronics list, not here. If it's cross-posted, there will
be more incentive to stay. We want to make this as clean a break
as possible.
In addition, for as long as available, the files and photos section
of the Yahoogroups list may continue to be used by everyone if needed.
With it's limited space, and reduced size photos, however,
we will try to accomodate these things using alternate methods.
Some may wonder why we would not move to one of the .php or website
based forums. My answer is simple. There are many of us who
have absolutely no interest in having to actually go somewhere to
dig for our information. I want it sent to me, in real time.
A statement was recently made that these forums were not
"a live customer support facility", but I think that there are many
of us who believe otherwise. It's extremely convenient when on
a Saturday while working on your -10 wings, for example, if you get
stuck on something, you can post a quick email and within an hour
you can be back on track to your building. It know it's worked
that way for me more than once. An email forum is the only way
that this kind of realtime access can happen. The only problem
with staying here was the moderation which caused many hours of
delay in some posts. In addition, many users do not have the
ability to get to such websites from their place of work. I know
that more than one RV site is blocked and filtered as "Hobbies"
by our web blocker at my own employer. An email forum is
the only good option, and Matronics, like Yahoo, is both email
and web based.
So, if you aren't familiar with Matronics yet, please go over to
http://www.matronics.com/subscription/ and get yourself subscribed.
From this day forward, some of us longer-term members and heavy
posters are going to try to wean you off from the Yahoogroups
forums. Yeah, it'll be slightly painful while you adjust, but
with Matt's new changes, I'm sure it'll end up being a much
better deal.....especially for you new members who have empennage
kits who are going to run into many questions throughout your build.
See you all there....all of my future information posts will be
made on the Matronics list, except for some bigger announcements.
Tim
P.S. Below I will post some benefits/differences with the Matronics
list....Contributed by Bob C.
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Matronics Benefits
- Attachments: Matt's RV10-List will now allow some limited
attachments to pass. They will NOT be archived though.
- Files, Photos, etc: Matt's web site has provisions for photo sharing
and shows a lits of which list they're associated with, but not way that
I'm aware of to filter by group. Not quite as nice as what we've got
with Yahoo. Although the area is called a Photo Share, it is also
possible to upload spreadsheets and other types of files.
- Call for contributions: Although participation in any/all of the lists
are free, Matt does have an annual call for contributions (similar to
PBS). This is 100% voluntary and there's no difference in service to
any individual regardless of the amount contributed (or not). For some
reason this turns some people off. (Tim's note: Believe me, for the
small "donation", you'll get some good service)
- Searching: Matt's archive search capabilities are far superior to the
Yahoo group.
- Archives: Matt allows you to download the archives for any/all lists.
Alternatively, he sells CDs that contain the full list archives if you
so desire.
- Web browse interface: If you don't like receiving email, Matt also has
provision for browsing via the web.
- Chat: Matt has a chat facility for those that want such a thing, but
it's something that I've never used.
Matt's lists seem to be a primary communications vehicle for the
builders of all other RV models. Why the RV-10 never caught on there is
beyond me. This is a one stop shop for electrical, engine and other
topics. Other sites have numerous other features, they don't however
fill the basic need for a "batch" oriented email facility.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: IMPORTANT: Moving to Matronics as RV-10 list home |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
I just want to reiterate what Tim has said, some of us just want a more
real-time email list in order to benefit us all. I will also be moving
to the Matronics list permanently (even though I don't think I have
actually contributed much yet) so that we can see better response times.
I honestly believe that this will be a better solution for everyone.
Chuck and the other moderators will no longer need to feel pressured to
regularly check for messages and I'm sure Doug has better things to do.
We are not trying to be heavy handed here. After all, it takes all of
us to make these lists successful and that is all we are trying to do.
This moderation issue keeps reappearing and seems to irritate enough
people to make it beneficial to move. And for those that haven't felt
it is a problem, the only thing you stand to loose is the ads at the
bottom of every email. ;-)
Give it a try, you have nothing to loose. And, if I may, subscribe to
the regular RV-List also as it is very informative and active.
http://www.matronics.com/subscription/
Michael Sausen
#40352
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Olson [mailto:Tim(at)MyRV10.com]
Subject: IMPORTANT: Moving to Matronics as RV-10 list home
Hi all, especially members of the RV10(at)yahoogroups.com list.
With the recent re-statement of moderation policies on the Yahoogroups
list, and the rehash of the "stay or go" debate, I wanted to annouce
that I now verified that we have sufficient momentum to make the switch
to the Matronics RV10-List. http://www.matronics.com/subscription/
Before you read on, note that this is not a battle or war of any kind.
Most people universally agree that the annoyances of yahoo hinder it's
value, but the moderation issue, along with some of the new Matronics
improvements, have just brought the momentum to change, and it's time to
cut the cord on yahoo and move on.
In addition, Matt Dralle has done some work as well, to make Matronics
more pleasant for us. We'll now have limited attachment posting
abilities, and the mongo footer is also shortened. Matronics should
serve as a good, searchable archive of past posts, and I'm sure that it
will now make a fantastic replacement for the yahoogroups list.
The Yahoogroups list will not necessarily be totally abandoned. I have
talked to some long-term members and most of us will continue to monitor
the Yahoogroups list, but when a question is posed to the list, a
response will be made on the MATRONICS list. The yahoo list will
possibly get a courtesy "see the reply at Matronics" posting to let the
group know where it can see the information that was requested. This is
to ensure that the majority of the "old"
list, finds their way to the "new" list.
**** For those users that I have not talked to personally, if you can
do so, try to do your "real" posts to respond to any questions on the
Matronics list, not here. If it's cross-posted, there will be more
incentive to stay. We want to make this as clean a break as possible.
In addition, for as long as available, the files and photos section of
the Yahoogroups list may continue to be used by everyone if needed.
With it's limited space, and reduced size photos, however, we will try
to accomodate these things using alternate methods.
Some may wonder why we would not move to one of the .php or website
based forums. My answer is simple. There are many of us who have
absolutely no interest in having to actually go somewhere to dig for our
information. I want it sent to me, in real time.
A statement was recently made that these forums were not "a live
customer support facility", but I think that there are many of us who
believe otherwise. It's extremely convenient when on a Saturday while
working on your -10 wings, for example, if you get stuck on something,
you can post a quick email and within an hour you can be back on track
to your building. It know it's worked that way for me more than once.
An email forum is the only way that this kind of realtime access can
happen. The only problem with staying here was the moderation which
caused many hours of delay in some posts. In addition, many users do
not have the ability to get to such websites from their place of work.
I know that more than one RV site is blocked and filtered as "Hobbies"
by our web blocker at my own employer. An email forum is the only good
option, and Matronics, like Yahoo, is both email and web based.
So, if you aren't familiar with Matronics yet, please go over to
http://www.matronics.com/subscription/ and get yourself subscribed.
From this day forward, some of us longer-term members and heavy posters
are going to try to wean you off from the Yahoogroups forums. Yeah,
it'll be slightly painful while you adjust, but with Matt's new changes,
I'm sure it'll end up being a much better deal.....especially for you
new members who have empennage kits who are going to run into many
questions throughout your build.
See you all there....all of my future information posts will be made on
the Matronics list, except for some bigger announcements.
Tim
P.S. Below I will post some benefits/differences with the Matronics
list....Contributed by Bob C.
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Matronics Benefits
- Attachments: Matt's RV10-List will now allow some limited attachments
to pass. They will NOT be archived though.
- Files, Photos, etc: Matt's web site has provisions for photo sharing
and shows a lits of which list they're associated with, but not way that
I'm aware of to filter by group. Not quite as nice as what we've got
with Yahoo. Although the area is called a Photo Share, it is also
possible to upload spreadsheets and other types of files.
- Call for contributions: Although participation in any/all of the lists
are free, Matt does have an annual call for contributions (similar to
PBS). This is 100% voluntary and there's no difference in service to
any individual regardless of the amount contributed (or not). For some
reason this turns some people off. (Tim's note: Believe me, for the
small "donation", you'll get some good service)
- Searching: Matt's archive search capabilities are far superior to the
Yahoo group.
- Archives: Matt allows you to download the archives for any/all lists.
Alternatively, he sells CDs that contain the full list archives if you
so desire.
- Web browse interface: If you don't like receiving email, Matt also has
provision for browsing via the web.
- Chat: Matt has a chat facility for those that want such a thing, but
it's something that I've never used.
Matt's lists seem to be a primary communications vehicle for the
builders of all other RV models. Why the RV-10 never caught on there is
beyond me. This is a one stop shop for electrical, engine and other
topics. Other sites have numerous other features, they don't however
fill the basic need for a "batch" oriented email facility.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)thayer.dartmouth.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: New Feature Requests Added To RV10-List!! |
Matt Dralle wrote:
> Another new feature I've added specifically to the RV10-List, is the
> ability to post a limited number of file types along with the messages.
> The currently supported enclosure types include "vcf, jpg, gif, txt,
> xls, pdf, and doc". When one of these file types are included along
> with a List Message, the enclosure will be forwarded to everyone on the
> List, but it is important to note that it will *not* be included in the
> Archive file. Only the plain-text portion of the message will be
> appended to the Archive. Here is a sample .jpg photo enclosure:
That's awesome - THANK YOU!!! :-)
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
deej(at)thayer.dartmouth.edu
"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
55 years young. Commercial Pilot LTA, SEL, A&P with in excess of 2700 hours.
First flight in a Republic Seabee Seaplane (1958) landing on the Pacific
Ocean along the Long Beach, WA spit. Served as a Coast Guard helicopter
crewman on a HH-52 in the 1970's with deployments to both the Antarctic and
Arctic regions with 14 countries thrown in. Developed and ran six flying
clubs in the 1970's on the GI Bill. Began GA by pumping gas and wrenching at
a local FBO during the Arab Oil Crisis of 1973. Served as Chief Pilot and
Instructor for an FAA Part 141 Approved Pilot Training School for Commercial
and Private Pilots. Served for 23 years as a FAA Designated Pilot Examiner
until retiring in September, 2001. Produced FAA endorsed Airshows in
Oregon (Blue Angels), Colorado (Blue Angels) and Arizona (Thunderbirds).
Produced an FAA Regional Safety Seminar in the Pacific NW. Married the
Practice wife for 17 years with a daughter Katie - 25 years old and a son
Bill - 21 years old. Now married six years to the (second and final)
Perfect Wife.
Only claim to NERD status was Marketing Manager for Egghead Software's most
successful U.S. store and Retail Store Manager for CompUSA. Most lucrative
career has been Real Estate Brokerage/Development. Most unusual job was
Drug Compliance Specialist for a Regional Air Carrier - you guys figure out
what that means. Took a two year sabbatical to acquire the A & P rating
before striking out on kit build production. Finishing up on an IA
designation and going for EAA Tech Advisor for Chapters 105 and 292. Fly
anything from high wing to low wing when possible. Most excitement is as a
Red Star Pilot and the chance to fly the Chinese Nanchang CJ-6 tandem
fighter trainer with Russian M-14P (360hp) radial. Metric not SAE tools.
Working with Composites Unlimited on a conversion from metal to composite
engine cowling (they built the original cowl for N410RV). Willingly host
RV-10 wannabe's during their demo visit to VAN's at my home near airport
KUAO. Our 4 bedroom, 4 bath house is nearly always empty. Constructing a
Builder Assist Hangar at Independence State Airport to tackle multiple
simultaneous RV-10 projects. Projects have included a Christen Eagle Biplane
(wood stick and fabric kit experience), 1947 Taylorcraft fabric restoration,
lots of composite research with Lancair group and receptive to cost
effective aluminum and rivet RV-10 building. I was the guy with Bill
McDonald, a fellow club member that found the original kit production door
would not close with the initial tunnel design. That placed me on the #$&%
list with Ken, Tom, Tim, Dave, Doug and of course VAN for the delay to
rework the tunnel and front seat relocation (Back when James McClow was with
the 10s). Randy's new tunnel shows it was worth the static. Currently
keeping involved with an RV-7 project, RV-9 project and RV-10 project.
Strong consideration to break from the pack with an alternate Powerplant
option for my 10. The alternative is not viable yet. That does not win me
support at VAN's. Calling the project Generation II cause Randy's is still
yet to fly bone stock from the box (but is only days away with Generation
I). I support his involvement with Lancair Avionics, Mountain High,
Flightline Interiors and Advanced Flight Systems. RV's should be able to
give Lancair a strong run for the Gold at flyins.
Here is a piece of trivia.... Oregon is now running 50% accident rate of
experimental built to certified FAR Part 23 GA. The FAA says that is okay,
cause the % of Experimental GA flying to Certified flying is even higher and
climbing. Watch the numbers as that GA Certified fleet gets even older with
more corrosion. Kit built is now the statistically safer way to go. SEE
YOU AT OSH '05.
John W. Cox - KUAO
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: [RV10] READ THIS EMAIL: From Doug Reeves (group owner) |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
I was hoping to avoid this. It's too bad Doug had to be so juvenile
about this in his group with the, if you don't like it that's just too
bad, attitude. It will only serve to stir-up everyone else on the list.
Although that's probably what he's trying to do.
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Reeves [mailto:vansairforce(at)hotmail.com]
Subject: [RV10] READ THIS EMAIL: From Doug Reeves (group owner)
I want to remind all that you should ONLY post a message in this forum
if:
1) it asks a specific RV-10 question
2) it answers a specific RV-10 question
All other types of posts will be deleted (and the authors removed if
they persist). This means no 'Yeah!' and 'Me too!' or 'Let's leave'
type messages.
This Yahoo Group was created as a *MODERATED* alternative to Matt
Dralle's *UNMODERATED* RV-List and it will stay just that. If it takes
24hrs....or 72hrs.... for your message to get distributed, well, that's
the price of admittion. You're building an airplane - twenty four hours
will not make a difference. I've started and completed one...I know.
If you want instantaeous distribution on a RV-10 topic try the VAF forum
specifically created for that:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=4 . The
absolute NANOSECOND you hit 'send' it's visible - much, much faster than
ANY email distribution system could ever be.
There is no point in any discussion on the group changing its moderation
policy. It's my group and it's my rules.
Sorrys Jewels, it's my rules. If no like...tough tacos, muchacos.
Thanks for playing and let's get back to RV-10 topics,
Doug
Give the gift of life to a sick child.
Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's 'Thanks & Giving.'
http://us.click.yahoo.com/5iY7fA/6WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/1yWplB/TM
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV10-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: [RV10] READ THIS EMAIL: From Doug Reeves (group owner) |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
Doug,
It really is too bad you had to resort to "It's my group and it's my
rules". At least two of us have offered to help out with moderation
which would relieve the issues that many of us are complaining about but
you didn't even bother responding to me. We all understand that the
Forums are instantaneous because they can be edited after the fact, but
what you don't seem to hear from everyone on this list is that they
DON'T LIKE FORUMS. And if you don't have a problem with unmoderated
Forums than what's the problem with unmoderating the email list?
While 24 or 72 hours might not seem like much to you, most of us here
building the -10 have very busy real lives and not a lot of time for our
aircraft building. For example, I really only have Sunday's to work on
my plane for more than an hour. If I have a question, it would be nice
to get it posted before the end of the day.
I really don't understand what the big deal is. The funny thing is
you never chimed in until several of us actively decided to leave
because Matt was willing to listen to our suggestions. Even though we
have ton's of posts that were of the "me too" or other unrelated type,
you choose now to pipe up. You seem less interested in your own rules
and more in this control thing. It's funny that the last post that was
approved before yours was a "good buy and good riddance to those whiners
who go". But whatever, it is your group and thankfully there are
alternatives and it's the most active members of this group that are
seeking them.
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Reeves [mailto:vansairforce(at)hotmail.com]
Subject: [RV10] READ THIS EMAIL: From Doug Reeves (group owner)
I want to remind all that you should ONLY post a message in this forum
if:
1) it asks a specific RV-10 question
2) it answers a specific RV-10 question
All other types of posts will be deleted (and the authors removed if
they persist). This means no 'Yeah!' and 'Me too!' or 'Let's leave'
type messages.
This Yahoo Group was created as a *MODERATED* alternative to Matt
Dralle's *UNMODERATED* RV-List and it will stay just that. If it takes
24hrs....or 72hrs.... for your message to get distributed, well, that's
the price of admittion. You're building an airplane - twenty four hours
will not make a difference. I've started and completed one...I know.
If you want instantaeous distribution on a RV-10 topic try the VAF forum
specifically created for that:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=4 . The
absolute NANOSECOND you hit 'send' it's visible - much, much faster than
ANY email distribution system could ever be.
There is no point in any discussion on the group changing its moderation
policy. It's my group and it's my rules.
Sorrys Jewels, it's my rules. If no like...tough tacos, muchacos.
Thanks for playing and let's get back to RV-10 topics,
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris , Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
Hi Guys just sold my RV6 VH-MUM.....ordering the 10 shortly!! We have a
six month old (reason for selling MUM) and want to do lots of flying with
him on board. Can anyone recomend what is good insulation?? I want it quiet.
Regards Chris
Downunder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
p owner)
| Subject: | RE: [RV10] READ THIS EMAIL: From Doug Reeves (grou |
p owner)
Michael, I will be here for you and with the hope of Tim and Randy
migrating, you will have a good reference from where to begin. My wife
thinks I already spend too much time now reading posts, learning rather than
just doing.
In time, this reflector can only pick up momentum from the obstacles which
remain in place at the alternative yahoo site. Now if Mani, will just
migrate his question.
John Cox - KUAO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Subject: RV10-List: RE: [RV10] READ THIS EMAIL: From Doug Reeves (group
owner)
I was hoping to avoid this. It's too bad Doug had to be so juvenile
about this in his group with the, if you don't like it that's just too
bad, attitude. It will only serve to stir-up everyone else on the list.
Although that's probably what he's trying to do.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Randy Debauw with kit #40006 has done a remarkable job on the areas he chose
to treat. There is both insulation (thermal) and attenuation (sound)
products with some that do both. Randy has pictures up on Tim Olson's site
http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/Randy006/index.html that can be reviewed.
Thickness and weight are the issues after resolving flammability.
Chris, if you and Sue come across the pond to take a demo flight at VAN's -
drop me a note and I will provide transportation and housing at NO COST
while you explore the possibilities. In the past, there was an opportunity
to visit Randy (just up the street) in production but now that his 10 is
approaching flight its going to the airport - KUAO. There are only George
McNeil and Eric Panning near by. But then there is Evergreen Air Museum
with the Spruce Goose, Composites Unlimited, Oregon Aero, Pacific Coast
Avionics, Lancair, Advanced Flight Systems and of course VANS within
minutes.
John Cox
Up and Over
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris , Susie
McGough
Subject: RV10-List: soundproofing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)thayer.dartmouth.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: One Ping for Effect |
John W. Cox wrote:
>
> Switching over at 23:00Z, time now 18:48Z. Four hours and 12 minutes to go.
> Looking towards something more than just 0 messages on my daily RV-10
> matronics reflector. Maybe we can put a smile on Mani's face this weekend.
> Matt hope you don't mind the traffic. Now I get to read Lancair and Yak
> posts just like RV-10.
Oh, I just can't help myself - ME TOO! *grin*
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
deej(at)thayer.dartmouth.edu
"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: soundproofing |
<000f01c52daa$9cd2ad30$691c36cb@BIGGLES>
Hey Chris,
I think that at least a couple other RV-10 builders are using a foil
faced, rubber backed insulation material that they buy from
Aircraft Spruce. You can get it in multiple different thicknesses.
I would think that something like that would work well. I'm planning
to do both that, and to add padded vinyl to my walls, and fabric
headliner to the ceiling.
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Chris , Susie McGough wrote:
>
>
> Hi Guys just sold my RV6 VH-MUM.....ordering the 10 shortly!! We
> have a six month old (reason for selling MUM) and want to do lots of
> flying with him on board. Can anyone recomend what is good insulation??
> I want it quiet.
>
> Regards Chris
>
> Downunder
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/ListFeaturesNavigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | IMPORTANT: Moving to Matronics as RV-10 list home |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list
--- MIME Errors ---
A message with no text/plain section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using plaintext formatting.
NOTE! This error can also occur when the poster of the
message has a specific type of computer virus. This virus
WAS NOT forwarded on to the List. The poster should be
informed of the potential problem with their system as soon
as possible.
--- MIME Errors ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
| Subject: | Builder Progress |
0.04 FORGED_IMS_TAGS IMS mailers can't send HTML in this format
21 MAR 2005,00:05 Zulu
In the days, weeks and months ahead I believe a lot of high kit # builders,
low # / low progress builders and lurkers with the desire to build, will be
pleasantly surprised as kit #40006 is flying. It is remarkable that in the
number of days, following clear concise factory instructions and standard
assembly practices any of us can produce the quality of flying aircraft as
the RV-10. Four Adult size passengers with a proven Lycoming IO-540
spinning a two blade Hartzell CS prop. Just following the directions. What
an accomplishment. I do not mean to diminish at all the experience that
Randy and his team have used, but when you put into perspective it is the
very, very first VAN's Four Place Kit Built in the Free World, done to such
high quality, on or ahead of schedule with the number of hours invested it
is staggeringly beautiful to behold. I for one have been thrilled to follow
the journey. Like Brian has said in the past.... Just build it.
I now have Channel Fever and for all you sailors out there - you remember
the feeling. For you aviators, it's like the realization 30 seconds after
liftoff once your Instructor wrote the Solo Endorsement on the back of your
medical while walking away with their big smile and eyes watching you Just
Do It.
John W. Cox
21 MAR 2005,00:05 Zulu
In the days, weeks and months ahead I believe a lot of high
kit # builders, low # / low progress builders and lurkers with the desire to
build, will be pleasantly surprised as kit #40006 is flying. It is
remarkable that in the number of days, following clear concise factory instructions
and standard assembly practices any of us can produce the quality of flying
aircraft as the RV-10. Four Adult size passengers with a proven Lycoming
IO-540
spinning a two blade Hartzell CS prop. Just following the directions. What an
accomplishment. I do not mean to diminish at all the experience that
Randy and his team have used, but when you put into perspective it is the very,
very first VAN's Four Place Kit Built in the Free World, done to such high
quality, on or ahead of schedule with the number of hours invested it is
staggeringly beautiful to behold. I for one have been thrilled to follow the
journey. Like Brian has said in the past.... Just build it.
I now have Channel Fever and for all you sailors out there -
you remember the feeling. For you aviators, it's like the realization
30 seconds after liftoff once your Instructor wrote the Solo Endorsement on the
back of your medical while walking away with their big smile and eyes watching
you Just Do It.
John W. Cox 01C52D77.914A9730)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Kit 40006 Flying |
Kit 40006 is flying!
21 MAR 2005,00:05 Zulu
In the days, weeks and months ahead I believe a lot of high kit # builders,
low # / low progress builders and lurkers with the desire to build, will be
pleasantly surprised as kit #40006 is flying. It is remarkable that in the
number of days, following clear concise factory instructions and standard
assembly practices any of us can produce the quality of flying aircraft as
the RV-10. Four Adult size passengers with a proven Lycoming IO-540
spinning a two blade Hartzell CS prop. Just following the directions. What
an accomplishment. I do not mean to diminish at all the experience that
Randy and his team have used, but when you put into perspective it is the
very, very first VAN's Four Place Kit Built in the Free World, done to such
high quality, on or ahead of schedule with the number of hours invested it
is staggeringly beautiful to behold. I for one have been thrilled to follow
the journey. Like Brian has said in the past.... Just build it.
I now have Channel Fever and for all you sailors out there - you remember
the feeling. For you aviators, it's like the realization 30 seconds after
liftoff once your Instructor wrote the Solo Endorsement on the back of your
medical while walking away with their big smile and eyes watching you Just
Do It.
John W. Cox
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: One Ping for Effect |
Ok...I'll try...what's KABONG mean? And Is this how to respond?
Rick S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Wing tank hole closures |
Ok....
First bonafide MAtroinic question. On the tanks, the tooling holes. Instructions
say fabricate patches and fill holes on end ribs....rivet and seal or just seal
them to the ribs??
Rick S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing tank hole closures |
On those patches, I prosealed them and riveted them with 2 rivets...
one on each side. (I used 3/32" round head rivets)
I did have suggestions from other builders to do things
like: Use big pop-rivets to fill the holes (Very cool idea if you
have the large pop-rivets handy...rolling the rivet in proseal too)
then proseal over it all, or use bolts and then proseal over it.
I think anything like that would work. Proseal alone would be too
risky for me....especially after seeing the air pressure blow out
my proseal. Same with only bolts or rivets.
If I had the large pop-rivets, that's what I'd do for sure.
--
Tim #40170
Rick wrote:
>
> Ok....
>
> First bonafide MAtroinic question. On the tanks, the tooling holes. Instructions
say fabricate patches and fill holes on end ribs....rivet and seal or just
seal them to the ribs??
>
> Rick S.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Kit 40006 Flying |
>
>Kit 40006 is flying!
>
>
>21 MAR 2005,00:05 Zulu
>
>In the days, weeks and months ahead I believe a lot of high kit # builders,
>low # / low progress builders and lurkers with the desire to build, will be
>pleasantly surprised as kit #40006 is flying. It is remarkable that in the
>number of days, following clear concise factory instructions and standard
>assembly practices any of us can produce the quality of flying aircraft as
>the RV-10. Four Adult size passengers with a proven Lycoming IO-540
>spinning a two blade Hartzell CS prop. Just following the directions. What
>an accomplishment. I do not mean to diminish at all the experience that
>Randy and his team have used, but when you put into perspective it is the
>very, very first VAN's Four Place Kit Built in the Free World, done to such
>high quality, on or ahead of schedule with the number of hours invested it
>is staggeringly beautiful to behold. I for one have been thrilled to follow
>the journey. Like Brian has said in the past.... Just build it.
SWEEET!! Well done, Randy and co.! Man, this is so impressive...the scale
and scope of building a four place aircraft, with RV performance, in such a
swift and quality manner, is positively inspiring.
Watch out CessnaBeechPiper. Check six 'cuz the four place market just got
rocked.
Indeed it is true, just BUILD YOUR AIRPLANES folks. Yahoo, Matronics, blah
blah blah. Fuhgedaboudit! Log off, get yer butts in the shop, follow the
instructions, and fly your dream machines.
I fully expect an avalanche of completions in the latter half of this year
with continuing evolutions in creativity, panels and all the creature
comforts the added room offers us. Wet bar and disco ball anyone?
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kit 40006 Flying |
lol.....A freshman again...for the umteenth time
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
| Subject: | One Ping for Effect |
Second ping for confirmation of your KABONG.
John C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Subject: Re: RV10-List: One Ping for Effect
Ok...I'll try...what's KABONG mean? And Is this how to respond?
Rick S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wing tank hole closures |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
| Subject: | Post regarding #40006 |
1.27 SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID Subject contains a unique ID
My apologies to sailors, pilots, RV-10 builders and lurkers alike. I did
not intend to say that Randy's project #40006 had already flown. I intended
to say that in the days, weeks or months ahead it should be flying and that
there is tremendous excitement around the event. That announcement will
come from only from Randy. Sorry for all the Sunday confusion.
John W. Cox - KUAO
My apologies to sailors,
pilots, RV-10 builders and lurkers alike. I did not intend to say that
Randy's project #40006 had already flown. I intended to say that in
the days, weeks or months ahead it should be flying and that there is
tremendous excitement around the event. That announcement will come from
only
from Randy. Sorry for all the Sunday confusion.
John W. Cox - KUAO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Post regarding #40006 |
LOL, I was picturing that white bird flying across the big blue in my
mind...
It won't be long, that's for sure.
-Sean #40303
John W. Cox wrote:
> My apologies to sailors, pilots, RV-10 builders and lurkers alike. I
> did not intend to say that Randy's project #40006 had already flown.
> I intended to say that in the days, weeks or months ahead it should be
> flying and that there is tremendous excitement around the event. That
> announcement will come from only from Randy. Sorry for all the Sunday
> confusion.
>
>
>
> John W. Cox - KUAO
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Specketer" <gspecketer(at)hotmail.com> |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list
--- MIME Errors ---
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The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using plaintext formatting.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Wing tank hole closures |
Thanks Bob,
You see, I take care of Bob, not the other way around...I order enough stuff to
share...what's he do? Buys only enough rivets for himself. Unless I feel like
going shopping I'm gonna rivet them a'la Tim. Thanks !!
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wing tank hole closures |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
Rick,
Sorry I missed you last week! Since I am finished with my tanks I carried my fuel
tank test kit along for you guys to use - make sure Bob shares!
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wing tank hole closures
Thanks Bob,
You see, I take care of Bob, not the other way around...I order enough stuff to
share...what's he do? Buys only enough rivets for himself. Unless I feel like
going shopping I'm gonna rivet them a'la Tim. Thanks !!
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV10-List Digest: 39 Msgs - 03/20/05 |
I used large 'Home Depot' pop rivets reinforced with a blop of proseal to seal
up my tank holes. Thanks to Terry Cole for the tip (you will be missed!)...
Jay
#11
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wing tank hole closures
On those patches, I prosealed them and riveted them with 2 rivets...
one on each side. (I used 3/32" round head rivets)
I did have suggestions from other builders to do things
like: Use big pop-rivets to fill the holes (Very cool idea if you
have the large pop-rivets handy...rolling the rivet in proseal too)
then proseal over it all, or use bolts and then proseal over it.
I think anything like that would work. Proseal alone would be too
risky for me....especially after seeing the air pressure blow out
my proseal. Same with only bolts or rivets.
If I had the large pop-rivets, that's what I'd do for sure.
--
Tim #40170
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV10-List Digest: 39 Msgs - 03/20/05 |
Thanks Jay!
The more I think about riveting the little patches the more I like the idea of
going to Home Depot and getting the pop rivets. I guess the mechanical fit and
the proseal will keep the leftover portion of stem from migrating into the danger
zone. 3 days and counting for hopeful release from the Doc to proceed with
riveting, Can't wait to get back to it.
Rick S.
40185
Wings
Las Vegas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: One Ping for Effect |
Thanks John!
When I first saw that it was EXACTLY what I thought, Quicksdraw McGraw and El Kabong!!
No mention of Babalouie?(sp?) though? Babalouie was the REAL brains of
the pair, go figure, he was an Ass, I mean Burro. Since I'm part of the recent
migration I'll say hello to those who haven't seen me here before, I'm in Las
Vegas building the wings on kit #40185. The tanks are ready to rivet just waiting
for clearance from the Doc after hand surgery to get back at it. I'm 43,
retired USAF weapons guy, (please no muzzel f--ker jokes :) now doing loss control
and field underwriting chores (Insurance). PP SEL, 100 hours, rent aircraft
only for now. I'm one of three builders here in town and we have been helping
each other along the way.
Rick S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tech Counselor in FtWorth area? |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
Can anyone recommend a EAA Tech Counselor in the South FtWorth area that
knows RV construction? I live about 30 minutes south of the I20 & 35W
interchange right off of 35W (Grandview) and I'm looking for a TC.
Thanks,
Michael Sausen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
clamav-milter version 0.80j
on heru-ur
Does anybody know about the Dynon Avionics Sportpak EFIS and EMS? We are
considering that instead of some of the other options.
Thanks.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com> |
I used some closed cell stuff out of the Aircraft Spruce catalog.
I have documented the stuff I used at my site. You can use the link
below to get to it.
Just look under the "Interiors" forum and there you will see a thread on
soundproofing.
http://freedomflyers.com/forums/
Scott Schmidt
USSynthetic Product Manager
1260 South 1600 West
Orem UT 84058
Phone: 801-235-9001
Fax: 801-235-9141
Cell: 801-319-3094
sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: soundproofing
Hey Chris,
I think that at least a couple other RV-10 builders are using a foil
faced, rubber backed insulation material that they buy from
Aircraft Spruce. You can get it in multiple different thicknesses.
I would think that something like that would work well. I'm planning
to do both that, and to add padded vinyl to my walls, and fabric
headliner to the ceiling.
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Chris , Susie McGough wrote:
>
>
> Hi Guys just sold my RV6 VH-MUM.....ordering the 10 shortly!! We
> have a six month old (reason for selling MUM) and want to do lots of
> flying with him on board. Can anyone recomend what is good
insulation??
> I want it quiet.
>
> Regards Chris
>
> Downunder
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/ListFeaturesNavigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net> |
| Subject: | Introduction - First Time Builder |
Hello all,
I've been lurking on the list for several months now, just
listening and learning. Now it seems like the right time to introduce
myself, and pose a few questions to the group.
My name is James Hein. I'm 31 years old, Extra class Ham Radio operator
for 13 years, Private Pilot for 2 years, Electronic, Mechanical, and
Software Engineer (Yes, an EE that knows software.. we do exist!), and I
live near ASH. I also live next door to another pilot.
Since I have almost no hope of buying a plane for myself, I want to
build one. I first thought of (and have the preview plans for) and
RV-9A, but my dad convinced me (even though I'm single) to build an
RV-10 in case I get a family sometime in the future (Maybe that was a
hint.. ?).
Okay, I've decided. Its going to be the RV-10. The major mission profile
when complete is to fly from ASH (Nashua, NH) to 1D2 (Canton, MI) to
visit the family more often (1-2x per month).
Now what? I do not have a garage, although the lower level of my house
is a full workshop, complete with tools, compressor, lathe, mill,
welder, etc. and access is through a set of double doors to the
driveway. It certainly is enough room to work (and store) each major
assembly, and the closest airport is a private strip called the
"Pepperell Sports Center" which is less than a mile up the road. I could
possibly use the backyard for final assembly (the backyard is around one
acre. Plenty of space).
Before I actually order the tail kit and tools I need, here are some
questions that I have right now for the group:
1. Tools:
What tools would you recommend?
What tools would you NOT recommend?
2. QB or Non-QB?
To answer this, I need to know approximate assembly times
for each major assembly (Wing, Fuse). Anyone have any numbers yet?
3. Engines
My god they're expensive! Wow! What is a good place to find
a used, or even a core, engine? I have rebuilt many, many automotive and
diesel engines and am confident I can rebuild an engine if needed.
4. Anybody nearby building or flying that's willing to show off
their project?
Any other comments and/or suggestions would be welcome.
Thanks!
James Hein, N8VIM.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Introduction - First Time Builder |
Hi James,
Glad to see you found the list, and the proper one at that!
As far as tools go, most builders get either the Cleaveland or
Avery (occasionally other brands too), RV tool kits. That gives
you most of the basics. Beyond that there are many little things
that make things easier, or are required in one way or another.
Such as:
Die Grinder
Bench Grinder
Fast air compressor (prefer Cast iron cylinders, non-oil free)
Bandsaw
Tabletop Beltsander
Scotchbrite pad attachment for die grinder (cleaveland)
3/32" and 1/8" chucking reamer for nice holes
Cogsdill Deburring tool (some people love them)
Oops Rivets
NAS1097AD4-3.5 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $17.20
NAS1097AD4-4 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $17.00
NAS1097AD4-5 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $15.00
NAS1097AD4-6 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $17.00
12" long drill bits in #40, #30, #12 sizes
A spare 3/32" springback dimple-die set (yardstore.com)
Circle cutter
1/8" offset rivet set
Misc various rivet sets (try yardstore.com)
Parker 37 degree rolo-flair flaring tool
DEFINITELY get the no-hole thin/nose 4" squeezer yoke.
DEFINITELY get the pneumatic squeezer (I can't see being without it)
I bought mine with the longeron yoke. Also get the adjustable set
holder for the squeezer.
Get the 59010 Hex Adapter for deburring from Avery...get 2 or more
Buy a couple of cordless rechargable screwdrivers.
Buy a round and flat jewlers file set.
You'll use about 700-750 total 3/32 clecos!!!
About 250 1/8 clecos
Buy extra drill bits, although the prepunched kits help them last
A couple of boxes of scotchbrite pads (Auto body shop)
various 180-600 grit tough automotive sandpaper
Buy 2 pair of cleco pliers so your helpers have some too.
Dremel tool with the fine sanding drum rolls.
Small chop saw (some people like these...or.
An air powered cutoff tool
Drill press (use either/or drill press or bench grinder for deburring)
Your other question is a hard one...tools NOT recommended???
I don't get it.....I didn't know there was a tool that could be
bought by a man that wasn't recommended. ;) But seriously,
there's not much you'll be told to get that you won't use
at one point or the other.
As for #2, QB or non-QB.... That's a really hard question.
I spent just over 250hrs getting my tailcone done, and
another 300 or so to get most of the wings done. The fuse
and final assembly and panel and everything is a HUGE job though.
People are guessing 1500-2000 hours to complete the kit. My
best advice is that if cost is a bigger factor than time,
go Slow build...the first 2 sections are fast anyway. If you
have a hard time finding time, get QB and get done.
#3. You could try alternative engines, but re-engineering for them
will cost extra too. In the end, just finding a lycoming core
and having some place rebuild it would probably save you the most
money. If you're confident in your rebuilding skills, maybe you'll
want to wait until ECI has their 540 kit out. At this point, since
you haven't bought yet, you definitely have the time to ponder the
engine thing for a while.
#4 I can't answer...you're not near me.
Again though, welcome to the list. I can easily see an EE/ME guy
being a software guy....when I started in EE, we had to learn
programming and CAD as part of the program. Fun stuff! (and,
another techie on the list)
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
James Hein wrote:
>
> Hello all,
> I've been lurking on the list for several months now, just
> listening and learning. Now it seems like the right time to introduce
> myself, and pose a few questions to the group.
>
> My name is James Hein. I'm 31 years old, Extra class Ham Radio operator
> for 13 years, Private Pilot for 2 years, Electronic, Mechanical, and
> Software Engineer (Yes, an EE that knows software.. we do exist!), and I
> live near ASH. I also live next door to another pilot.
>
> Since I have almost no hope of buying a plane for myself, I want to
> build one. I first thought of (and have the preview plans for) and
> RV-9A, but my dad convinced me (even though I'm single) to build an
> RV-10 in case I get a family sometime in the future (Maybe that was a
> hint.. ?).
>
> Okay, I've decided. Its going to be the RV-10. The major mission profile
> when complete is to fly from ASH (Nashua, NH) to 1D2 (Canton, MI) to
> visit the family more often (1-2x per month).
>
> Now what? I do not have a garage, although the lower level of my house
> is a full workshop, complete with tools, compressor, lathe, mill,
> welder, etc. and access is through a set of double doors to the
> driveway. It certainly is enough room to work (and store) each major
> assembly, and the closest airport is a private strip called the
> "Pepperell Sports Center" which is less than a mile up the road. I could
> possibly use the backyard for final assembly (the backyard is around one
> acre. Plenty of space).
>
> Before I actually order the tail kit and tools I need, here are some
> questions that I have right now for the group:
> 1. Tools:
> What tools would you recommend?
> What tools would you NOT recommend?
> 2. QB or Non-QB?
> To answer this, I need to know approximate assembly times
> for each major assembly (Wing, Fuse). Anyone have any numbers yet?
> 3. Engines
> My god they're expensive! Wow! What is a good place to find
> a used, or even a core, engine? I have rebuilt many, many automotive and
> diesel engines and am confident I can rebuild an engine if needed.
> 4. Anybody nearby building or flying that's willing to show off their
> project?
>
> Any other comments and/or suggestions would be welcome.
>
> Thanks!
> James Hein, N8VIM.
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/ListFeaturesNavigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Introduction - First Time Builder |
James,
You really can't go wrong with Cleaveland or Avery's RV tool kits. I pieced my
tool collection and pretty much have the same as Cleveland offers and I'm sure
I paid more by doing that. You will use every tool in the kit and you will find
you need others as you go along. Additional Clecos for one thing, I have 600
3/32 (silver) size and have used them all plus borrowed an additional 100. One
thing I suggest is upgrading the squeezer from a hand squeezer to a pneumatic
one. That is my preference and others will have their comments as well. If
you don't plan on getting the air powered squeezer, DON'T try one out....you'll
end up getting one. A bench grinder, a drill press and a band saw all get good
use in my shop. I have a small bench belt/disc sander but it barely gets used.
Building times vary with your skills and ability to devote your time to the
project.
I averaged about 12 hours of "productive" time a week sometimes more, sometimes
less. By productive I mean your organized, know what your going to do, have read
the steps at least once and your not tired and most important, your heads
"in the game". My Emmpenage took me from Feb 2004 until Sept about 6 months. I
started the wings just before Thanksgiving 2004 and I should be finished by the
end of May. I had to take 7 weeks off from building or the wings would be done
by now.
I enjoy the building process so I didn't consider the QB route. If the extra cash
is not an issue and you want the fastest way to completion go QB, FWIW there
have been some delays on shipping, not Van's fault. I think you could almost
get your wings built in the lead times that the QB's are taking...I don't think
you would beat it on the Fuselage. Get out on the web and check out Tim Olson's
site along with Mike Howe and Dan Checkoway even the now inactive James McClow
site has some good info along with many family pictures if your feeling
lonely one night!! You can find links to these on Van's web page under WWW links.
It's a big family out here ready to help, get the workshop cleaned, order
the tools and emmpenage kit and jump in. You next step will be to ask what primer
to use on the airframe. This is the easiest question to answer of all so feel
free to post that question when the time comes. Engines have many options,
new, rebuilt from core, low time etc etc. By the time your ready to make that
decision you will have a lot more knowledge, just expect to safely budget anywhere
from 25k to 40k, if you find one cheaper than all the better. Once you get
your budget, might as well burn it, I gave up on mine the more I rationalized
each increase. Figure 100k to finish maybe a little more, little less but an
easy figure to remember. Nuff kidding, welcome aboard.
Rick S.
40185
Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Napoli, Nikolaos (Contr)" <nikolaos.napoli(at)ngc.com> |
I just moved over to this list.
Just testing the system.
Niko
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mani Ravee" <maniravee(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Introduction - First Time Builder |
Hey James, Welcome aboard. The first thing I would suggest is a class to
hone up on the skills necessary to embark on this wonderful and romantic
voyage. No really. I attended the RV class by Tom Emery, of WPARV builders.
Web site: http://www.wparvbuilders.nstemp.com/?source=rvproject.com
Tom is a well known and veteran builder, and an excellent teacher. Had A/V
class sessions and a one on one practice building through the weekend. I
highly recommend such a class because he has ALL the tools you can imagine,
lets you use each one of them and make your own list or rather narrow it
down to what you need and what you are comfortable using. Also the tips and
tricks in building/ sheet metal work are very valuable. I truly believe I
will build a almost perfect airplane because of attending that class. No I
have nothing to gain from the recommendation.
Regarding other things others have been very eloquent. All I can say is get
the kit. It is easy, really. All you have to have is patience and time to
put in the work. I for one am having such a blast
Mani Ravee, MD MC
Pulmonary Medicine & Critical Care
Maj. US Army Medical Corps
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Hein
Subject: RV10-List: Introduction - First Time Builder
Hello all,
I've been lurking on the list for several months now, just
listening and learning. Now it seems like the right time to introduce
myself, and pose a few questions to the group.
My name is James Hein. I'm 31 years old, Extra class Ham Radio operator
for 13 years, Private Pilot for 2 years, Electronic, Mechanical, and
Software Engineer (Yes, an EE that knows software.. we do exist!), and I
live near ASH. I also live next door to another pilot.
Since I have almost no hope of buying a plane for myself, I want to
build one. I first thought of (and have the preview plans for) and
RV-9A, but my dad convinced me (even though I'm single) to build an
RV-10 in case I get a family sometime in the future (Maybe that was a
hint.. ?).
Okay, I've decided. Its going to be the RV-10. The major mission profile
when complete is to fly from ASH (Nashua, NH) to 1D2 (Canton, MI) to
visit the family more often (1-2x per month).
Now what? I do not have a garage, although the lower level of my house
is a full workshop, complete with tools, compressor, lathe, mill,
welder, etc. and access is through a set of double doors to the
driveway. It certainly is enough room to work (and store) each major
assembly, and the closest airport is a private strip called the
"Pepperell Sports Center" which is less than a mile up the road. I could
possibly use the backyard for final assembly (the backyard is around one
acre. Plenty of space).
Before I actually order the tail kit and tools I need, here are some
questions that I have right now for the group:
1. Tools:
What tools would you recommend?
What tools would you NOT recommend?
2. QB or Non-QB?
To answer this, I need to know approximate assembly times
for each major assembly (Wing, Fuse). Anyone have any numbers yet?
3. Engines
My god they're expensive! Wow! What is a good place to find
a used, or even a core, engine? I have rebuilt many, many automotive and
diesel engines and am confident I can rebuild an engine if needed.
4. Anybody nearby building or flying that's willing to show off
their project?
Any other comments and/or suggestions would be welcome.
Thanks!
James Hein, N8VIM.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
Welcome ! This my new home - having my email modified before posting was the absolute
last straw!
Bob
--------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Testing
I just moved over to this list.
Just testing the system.
Niko
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mani Ravee" <maniravee(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Priming the outside.... |
Hi gang, my first post in the Matronics list.
>
> In my original post, wanted to know what others are doing:
>
> 1. As you finish and close up each section, e.g., the VS or the Rudder,
> do you alodine and prime the outside before you put it away?
> 2. Do you need to alodine the outside also or just use a wash primer
> and topcoat it.
>
> The reasoning I have is, it seems like it will be easier to do them
> when they are still small sized. What have you guys done so far?
>
> Mani
Mani Ravee, MD MC
Pulmonary Medicine & Critical Care
Maj. US Army Medical Corps
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Introduction - First Time Builder
Hi James,
Glad to see you found the list, and the proper one at that!
As far as tools go, most builders get either the Cleaveland or
Avery (occasionally other brands too), RV tool kits. That gives
you most of the basics. Beyond that there are many little things
that make things easier, or are required in one way or another.
Such as:
Die Grinder
Bench Grinder
Fast air compressor (prefer Cast iron cylinders, non-oil free)
Bandsaw
Tabletop Beltsander
Scotchbrite pad attachment for die grinder (cleaveland)
3/32" and 1/8" chucking reamer for nice holes
Cogsdill Deburring tool (some people love them)
Oops Rivets
NAS1097AD4-3.5 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $17.20
NAS1097AD4-4 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $17.00
NAS1097AD4-5 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $15.00
NAS1097AD4-6 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $17.00
12" long drill bits in #40, #30, #12 sizes
A spare 3/32" springback dimple-die set (yardstore.com)
Circle cutter
1/8" offset rivet set
Misc various rivet sets (try yardstore.com)
Parker 37 degree rolo-flair flaring tool
DEFINITELY get the no-hole thin/nose 4" squeezer yoke.
DEFINITELY get the pneumatic squeezer (I can't see being without it)
I bought mine with the longeron yoke. Also get the adjustable set
holder for the squeezer.
Get the 59010 Hex Adapter for deburring from Avery...get 2 or more
Buy a couple of cordless rechargable screwdrivers.
Buy a round and flat jewlers file set.
You'll use about 700-750 total 3/32 clecos!!!
About 250 1/8 clecos
Buy extra drill bits, although the prepunched kits help them last
A couple of boxes of scotchbrite pads (Auto body shop)
various 180-600 grit tough automotive sandpaper
Buy 2 pair of cleco pliers so your helpers have some too.
Dremel tool with the fine sanding drum rolls.
Small chop saw (some people like these...or.
An air powered cutoff tool
Drill press (use either/or drill press or bench grinder for deburring)
Your other question is a hard one...tools NOT recommended???
I don't get it.....I didn't know there was a tool that could be
bought by a man that wasn't recommended. ;) But seriously,
there's not much you'll be told to get that you won't use
at one point or the other.
As for #2, QB or non-QB.... That's a really hard question.
I spent just over 250hrs getting my tailcone done, and
another 300 or so to get most of the wings done. The fuse
and final assembly and panel and everything is a HUGE job though.
People are guessing 1500-2000 hours to complete the kit. My
best advice is that if cost is a bigger factor than time,
go Slow build...the first 2 sections are fast anyway. If you
have a hard time finding time, get QB and get done.
#3. You could try alternative engines, but re-engineering for them
will cost extra too. In the end, just finding a lycoming core
and having some place rebuild it would probably save you the most
money. If you're confident in your rebuilding skills, maybe you'll
want to wait until ECI has their 540 kit out. At this point, since
you haven't bought yet, you definitely have the time to ponder the
engine thing for a while.
#4 I can't answer...you're not near me.
Again though, welcome to the list. I can easily see an EE/ME guy
being a software guy....when I started in EE, we had to learn
programming and CAD as part of the program. Fun stuff! (and,
another techie on the list)
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
James Hein wrote:
>
> Hello all,
> I've been lurking on the list for several months now, just
> listening and learning. Now it seems like the right time to introduce
> myself, and pose a few questions to the group.
>
> My name is James Hein. I'm 31 years old, Extra class Ham Radio operator
> for 13 years, Private Pilot for 2 years, Electronic, Mechanical, and
> Software Engineer (Yes, an EE that knows software.. we do exist!), and I
> live near ASH. I also live next door to another pilot.
>
> Since I have almost no hope of buying a plane for myself, I want to
> build one. I first thought of (and have the preview plans for) and
> RV-9A, but my dad convinced me (even though I'm single) to build an
> RV-10 in case I get a family sometime in the future (Maybe that was a
> hint.. ?).
>
> Okay, I've decided. Its going to be the RV-10. The major mission profile
> when complete is to fly from ASH (Nashua, NH) to 1D2 (Canton, MI) to
> visit the family more often (1-2x per month).
>
> Now what? I do not have a garage, although the lower level of my house
> is a full workshop, complete with tools, compressor, lathe, mill,
> welder, etc. and access is through a set of double doors to the
> driveway. It certainly is enough room to work (and store) each major
> assembly, and the closest airport is a private strip called the
> "Pepperell Sports Center" which is less than a mile up the road. I could
> possibly use the backyard for final assembly (the backyard is around one
> acre. Plenty of space).
>
> Before I actually order the tail kit and tools I need, here are some
> questions that I have right now for the group:
> 1. Tools:
> What tools would you recommend?
> What tools would you NOT recommend?
> 2. QB or Non-QB?
> To answer this, I need to know approximate assembly times
> for each major assembly (Wing, Fuse). Anyone have any numbers yet?
> 3. Engines
> My god they're expensive! Wow! What is a good place to find
> a used, or even a core, engine? I have rebuilt many, many automotive and
> diesel engines and am confident I can rebuild an engine if needed.
> 4. Anybody nearby building or flying that's willing to show off their
> project?
>
> Any other comments and/or suggestions would be welcome.
>
> Thanks!
> James Hein, N8VIM.
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/ListFeaturesNavigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> |
I'll post here. Whatever... Personality battles are silly.
Jay Brinkmeyer
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian" <av8er(at)bellsouth.net> |
Made the switch from yahoo. Hello -10 friends!
Brian Sutherland
Nashville, TN
40308 Working on tailcone
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Priming the outside.... |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Carlton <jcarlton3(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Introduction - First Time Builder |
On Monday 21 March 2005 08:05 pm, Mani Ravee wrote:
>
> Hey James, Welcome aboard. The first thing I would suggest is a class to
> hone up on the skills necessary to embark on this wonderful and romantic
> voyage. No really. I attended the RV class by Tom Emery, of WPARV builders.
> Web site: http://www.wparvbuilders.nstemp.com/?source=rvproject.com
> Tom is a well known and veteran builder, and an excellent teacher. Had A/V
> class sessions and a one on one practice building through the weekend. I
> highly recommend such a class because he has ALL the tools you can imagine,
> lets you use each one of them and make your own list or rather narrow it
> down to what you need and what you are comfortable using. Also the tips and
> tricks in building/ sheet metal work are very valuable. I truly believe I
> will build a almost perfect airplane because of attending that class. No I
> have nothing to gain from the recommendation.
> Regarding other things others have been very eloquent. All I can say is get
> the kit. It is easy, really. All you have to have is patience and time to
> put in the work. I for one am having such a blast
>
> Mani Ravee, MD MC
> Pulmonary Medicine & Critical Care
> Maj. US Army Medical Corps
I have to second Mani's quotes here. I just returned from Tom Emery's class
and I am amazed at the wealth of info I obtained. Tom is a class act and his
wife Nickie is fabulous. It's well worth the time and effort to get a head
start on your building project with one of Tom's clinics.
Jim Carlton
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Introduction - First Time Builder |
Hello James,
A lot has been said on tools, I can't agree more.
Deburing is very important - I found that the three sided hole deburing tool
chatters a lot - get the chaterless kind, I believe it costs just 1 or 2$
more.
I bought a rivet removal tool from ACS - useless, actually grinds down the
sides of the base material, hence harmful. Removing rivets by hand is a
technique you'll soon master. Just drill down the center of the rivet with a
small diameter (careful as drill will wander), then drill with a larger
diameter to clear the head. Snap off the head, re-drill with small diameter
and punch out - comes off easy most of the time.
Punches #30 and #40 as a minimum.
Rivet shaver - very useful in places you mis-dimpled - particularly those
flat head rivets which attach platenuts.
Two 6" diameter ScotchBrite wheels - one coarse for grinding down, one fine
for finishing off - I put them both on a small cheapo bench grinder.
Small ScotchBrite wheels and pads - course and fine. Also get the disk
ScotchBrite, 2" or larger - useful for certain types of work.
V shaped deburing tool - very useful - as well as the hand held one.
Michle
RV8 - wings
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Hein
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 10:39 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Introduction - First Time Builder
>
>
> Hello all,
> I've been lurking on the list for several months now, just
> listening and learning. Now it seems like the right time to introduce
> myself, and pose a few questions to the group.
>
> My name is James Hein. I'm 31 years old, Extra class Ham Radio operator
> for 13 years, Private Pilot for 2 years, Electronic, Mechanical, and
> Software Engineer (Yes, an EE that knows software.. we do exist!), and I
> live near ASH. I also live next door to another pilot.
>
> Since I have almost no hope of buying a plane for myself, I want to
> build one. I first thought of (and have the preview plans for) and
> RV-9A, but my dad convinced me (even though I'm single) to build an
> RV-10 in case I get a family sometime in the future (Maybe that was a
> hint.. ?).
>
> Okay, I've decided. Its going to be the RV-10. The major mission profile
> when complete is to fly from ASH (Nashua, NH) to 1D2 (Canton, MI) to
> visit the family more often (1-2x per month).
>
> Now what? I do not have a garage, although the lower level of my house
> is a full workshop, complete with tools, compressor, lathe, mill,
> welder, etc. and access is through a set of double doors to the
> driveway. It certainly is enough room to work (and store) each major
> assembly, and the closest airport is a private strip called the
> "Pepperell Sports Center" which is less than a mile up the road. I could
> possibly use the backyard for final assembly (the backyard is around one
> acre. Plenty of space).
>
> Before I actually order the tail kit and tools I need, here are some
> questions that I have right now for the group:
> 1. Tools:
> What tools would you recommend?
> What tools would you NOT recommend?
> 2. QB or Non-QB?
> To answer this, I need to know approximate assembly times
> for each major assembly (Wing, Fuse). Anyone have any numbers yet?
> 3. Engines
> My god they're expensive! Wow! What is a good place to find
> a used, or even a core, engine? I have rebuilt many, many automotive and
> diesel engines and am confident I can rebuild an engine if needed.
> 4. Anybody nearby building or flying that's willing to show off
> their project?
>
> Any other comments and/or suggestions would be welcome.
>
> Thanks!
> James Hein, N8VIM.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Introduction - First Time Builder |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
I can also recommend the EAA RV Workshop. I had attended the revamped
format in Denver back in January and was very impressed.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Carlton
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Introduction - First Time Builder
On Monday 21 March 2005 08:05 pm, Mani Ravee wrote:
> -->
>
> Hey James, Welcome aboard. The first thing I would suggest is a class
> to hone up on the skills necessary to embark on this wonderful and
> romantic voyage. No really. I attended the RV class by Tom Emery, of
WPARV builders.
> Web site: http://www.wparvbuilders.nstemp.com/?source=rvproject.com
> Tom is a well known and veteran builder, and an excellent teacher. Had
> A/V class sessions and a one on one practice building through the
> weekend. I highly recommend such a class because he has ALL the tools
> you can imagine, lets you use each one of them and make your own list
> or rather narrow it down to what you need and what you are comfortable
> using. Also the tips and tricks in building/ sheet metal work are very
> valuable. I truly believe I will build a almost perfect airplane
> because of attending that class. No I have nothing to gain from the
recommendation.
> Regarding other things others have been very eloquent. All I can say
> is get the kit. It is easy, really. All you have to have is patience
> and time to put in the work. I for one am having such a blast
>
> Mani Ravee, MD MC
> Pulmonary Medicine & Critical Care
> Maj. US Army Medical Corps
I have to second Mani's quotes here. I just returned from Tom Emery's
class and I am amazed at the wealth of info I obtained. Tom is a class
act and his wife Nickie is fabulous. It's well worth the time and effort
to get a head start on your building project with one of Tom's clinics.
Jim Carlton
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Priming the outside.... |
Personally, I'm leaving the external side of the skins partially
protected with the vinyl that's on it. On the insides, I am Alodining
all internal parts and then self-etch priming only the inside of the
skins with Marhyde.
For the Alodine I bought a 32 Gal Rubbermaid garbage can and filled it
with about 20 gal of Alodine. I then use a cheap fish tank powerhead
and a length of tubing to pump it into a plastic lined box for spars and
oversized stuff ala Tim's method. It probably wouldn't be that much
more difficult to do the skins, just bulky.
Along the same lines I use a 38 gal garbage can for spraying down
parts with metal prep that way I can reclaim it when done. Something
else I've been wondering, if the primary component is phosphoric acid in
these metal preps, I wonder if the concrete floor etch from HD or Lowes
would do the exact same job for less? After all, it is nothing more
than phosphoric acid. I just do know the concentrations.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mani Ravee
Subject: RV10-List: Priming the outside....
Hi gang, my first post in the Matronics list.
>
> In my original post, wanted to know what others are doing:
>
> 1. As you finish and close up each section, e.g., the VS or the
Rudder,
> do you alodine and prime the outside before you put it away?
> 2. Do you need to alodine the outside also or just use a wash
primer
> and topcoat it.
>
> The reasoning I have is, it seems like it will be easier to do them
> when they are still small sized. What have you guys done so far?
>
> Mani
Mani Ravee, MD MC
Pulmonary Medicine & Critical Care
Maj. US Army Medical Corps
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Introduction - First Time Builder
Hi James,
Glad to see you found the list, and the proper one at that!
As far as tools go, most builders get either the Cleaveland or Avery
(occasionally other brands too), RV tool kits. That gives you most of
the basics. Beyond that there are many little things that make things
easier, or are required in one way or another.
Such as:
Die Grinder
Bench Grinder
Fast air compressor (prefer Cast iron cylinders, non-oil free) Bandsaw
Tabletop Beltsander Scotchbrite pad attachment for die grinder
(cleaveland) 3/32" and 1/8" chucking reamer for nice holes Cogsdill
Deburring tool (some people love them) Oops Rivets
NAS1097AD4-3.5 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $17.20
NAS1097AD4-4 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $17.00
NAS1097AD4-5 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $15.00
NAS1097AD4-6 OOPS RIVETS (LB) $17.00
12" long drill bits in #40, #30, #12 sizes A spare 3/32" springback
dimple-die set (yardstore.com) Circle cutter 1/8" offset rivet set Misc
various rivet sets (try yardstore.com) Parker 37 degree rolo-flair
flaring tool DEFINITELY get the no-hole thin/nose 4" squeezer yoke.
DEFINITELY get the pneumatic squeezer (I can't see being without it) I
bought mine with the longeron yoke. Also get the adjustable set holder
for the squeezer.
Get the 59010 Hex Adapter for deburring from Avery...get 2 or more Buy a
couple of cordless rechargable screwdrivers.
Buy a round and flat jewlers file set.
You'll use about 700-750 total 3/32 clecos!!!
About 250 1/8 clecos
Buy extra drill bits, although the prepunched kits help them last A
couple of boxes of scotchbrite pads (Auto body shop) various 180-600
grit tough automotive sandpaper Buy 2 pair of cleco pliers so your
helpers have some too.
Dremel tool with the fine sanding drum rolls.
Small chop saw (some people like these...or.
An air powered cutoff tool
Drill press (use either/or drill press or bench grinder for deburring)
Your other question is a hard one...tools NOT recommended???
I don't get it.....I didn't know there was a tool that could be
bought by a man that wasn't recommended. ;) But seriously,
there's not much you'll be told to get that you won't use at one point
or the other.
As for #2, QB or non-QB.... That's a really hard question.
I spent just over 250hrs getting my tailcone done, and another 300 or so
to get most of the wings done. The fuse and final assembly and panel
and everything is a HUGE job though.
People are guessing 1500-2000 hours to complete the kit. My best advice
is that if cost is a bigger factor than time, go Slow build...the first
2 sections are fast anyway. If you have a hard time finding time, get
QB and get done.
#3. You could try alternative engines, but re-engineering for them will
cost extra too. In the end, just finding a lycoming core and having
some place rebuild it would probably save you the most money. If you're
confident in your rebuilding skills, maybe you'll want to wait until ECI
has their 540 kit out. At this point, since you haven't bought yet, you
definitely have the time to ponder the engine thing for a while.
#4 I can't answer...you're not near me.
Again though, welcome to the list. I can easily see an EE/ME guy being
a software guy....when I started in EE, we had to learn programming and
CAD as part of the program. Fun stuff! (and, another techie on the
list)
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
James Hein wrote:
>
> Hello all,
> I've been lurking on the list for several months now, just
> listening and learning. Now it seems like the right time to introduce
> myself, and pose a few questions to the group.
>
> My name is James Hein. I'm 31 years old, Extra class Ham Radio
> operator for 13 years, Private Pilot for 2 years, Electronic,
> Mechanical, and Software Engineer (Yes, an EE that knows software.. we
> do exist!), and I live near ASH. I also live next door to another
pilot.
>
> Since I have almost no hope of buying a plane for myself, I want to
> build one. I first thought of (and have the preview plans for) and
> RV-9A, but my dad convinced me (even though I'm single) to build an
> RV-10 in case I get a family sometime in the future (Maybe that was a
> hint.. ?).
>
> Okay, I've decided. Its going to be the RV-10. The major mission
> profile when complete is to fly from ASH (Nashua, NH) to 1D2 (Canton,
> MI) to visit the family more often (1-2x per month).
>
> Now what? I do not have a garage, although the lower level of my house
> is a full workshop, complete with tools, compressor, lathe, mill,
> welder, etc. and access is through a set of double doors to the
> driveway. It certainly is enough room to work (and store) each major
> assembly, and the closest airport is a private strip called the
> "Pepperell Sports Center" which is less than a mile up the road. I
> could possibly use the backyard for final assembly (the backyard is
> around one acre. Plenty of space).
>
> Before I actually order the tail kit and tools I need, here are some
> questions that I have right now for the group:
> 1. Tools:
> What tools would you recommend?
> What tools would you NOT recommend?
> 2. QB or Non-QB?
> To answer this, I need to know approximate assembly times
> for each major assembly (Wing, Fuse). Anyone have any numbers yet?
> 3. Engines
> My god they're expensive! Wow! What is a good place to
> find a used, or even a core, engine? I have rebuilt many, many
> automotive and diesel engines and am confident I can rebuild an engine
if needed.
> 4. Anybody nearby building or flying that's willing to show off
> their project?
>
> Any other comments and/or suggestions would be welcome.
>
> Thanks!
> James Hein, N8VIM.
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/ListFeaturesNavigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Posting for James Hein and alternative engines |
James
Welcome to the group.
There is a builder/flyer up near Nashua, his name is Gary Newstead, he
has one of the best 9A's I have seen. He installed the Eggenfellner
Subaru, and wrote the manual they now use.
I too am looking at using the Subaru H-6 for the 10, I have been
following Jan's development for several years now, and it just keeps
getting better, as long as you follow the install manual. I am very
interested in this engine, I went down to Daytona, and got to fly in
their 6A, and it is impressive!
Get Gary's contact info from the eggenfellner site, and go visit him, I
am sure he will give you a demo flight for the Subbie. Tell him Dan said
Hi!
Dan
40269
Can you say Slo build wings....at least slower than most.
James Hein wrote:
>
> Hello all,
> I've been lurking on the list for several months now, just
> listening and learning. Now it seems like the right time to introduce
> myself, and pose a few questions to the group.
>
> My name is James Hein. I'm 31 years old, Extra class Ham Radio
operator
> for 13 years, Private Pilot for 2 years, Electronic, Mechanical, and
> Software Engineer (Yes, an EE that knows software.. we do exist!), and
I
> live near ASH. I also live next door to another pilot.
>
> Since I have almost no hope of buying a plane for myself, I want to
> build one. I first thought of (and have the preview plans for) and
> RV-9A, but my dad convinced me (even though I'm single) to build an
> RV-10 in case I get a family sometime in the future (Maybe that was a
> hint.. ?).
>
> Okay, I've decided. Its going to be the RV-10. The major mission
profile
> when complete is to fly from ASH (Nashua, NH) to 1D2 (Canton, MI) to
> visit the family more often (1-2x per month).
>
> Now what? I do not have a garage, although the lower level of my house
> is a full workshop, complete with tools, compressor, lathe, mill,
> welder, etc. and access is through a set of double doors to the
> driveway. It certainly is enough room to work (and store) each major
> assembly, and the closest airport is a private strip called the
> "Pepperell Sports Center" which is less than a mile up the road. I
could
> possibly use the backyard for final assembly (the backyard is around
one
> acre. Plenty of space).
>
> Before I actually order the tail kit and tools I need, here are some
> questions that I have right now for the group:
> 1. Tools:
> What tools would you recommend?
> What tools would you NOT recommend?
> 2. QB or Non-QB?
> To answer this, I need to know approximate assembly times
> for each major assembly (Wing, Fuse). Anyone have any numbers yet?
> 3. Engines
> My god they're expensive! Wow! What is a good place to
find
> a used, or even a core, engine? I have rebuilt many, many automotive
and
> diesel engines and am confident I can rebuild an engine if needed.
> 4. Anybody nearby building or flying that's willing to show off
their
> project?
>
> Any other comments and/or suggestions would be welcome.
>
> Thanks!
> James Hein, N8VIM.
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/ListFeaturesNavigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Seat upholstery pricing |
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
I have received the selling prices back from Abby at Flightline Interiors.
Front seats: $650.00 a pair in cloth, vinyl, or combination like I have.
Rear sears: $675.00 a pair and that includes the foam.
Here is the link to her site. http://my.execpc.com/~erdmannb/ 262-364-6166
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Crotch strap lug |
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
Here's a test message to see if it works.
Anybody thinking of ditching the Crotch Strap Lugs on the rear seats? I don't
see the point in having a 5-point harness back there in this plane. Somebody's
just going to bash their shin on it.
I think Van's should amend the plans to say, "If you're going to have five-point
harness, install this lug, otherwise, leave it out."
TDT
**********************************
Tim Dawson-Townsend
Systems Engineer
Avidyne Corporation
781-402-7418
tim(at)avidyne.com
**********************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Hertner" <effectus(at)rogers.com> |
Dave Hertner here. This is a test to see if this thing works.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
Looks like it does, welcome!
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Hertner
Subject: RV10-List: I'm In Too
Dave Hertner here. This is a test to see if this thing works.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Crotch strap lug |
| From: | "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com> |
I'm getting rid of it. Van's told me that most of the people who have
ordered seats have ordered the 4 point seat belts.
There is no option for five points in the front seats so why have them
in the back seats.
Scott Schmidt
RV-10 (Finishing Kit)
www.freedomflyers.com <http://www.freedomflyers.com/>
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Subject: RV10-List: Crotch strap lug
Here's a test message to see if it works.
Anybody thinking of ditching the Crotch Strap Lugs on the rear seats? I
don't see the point in having a 5-point harness back there in this
plane. Somebody's just going to bash their shin on it.
I think Van's should amend the plans to say, "If you're going to have
five-point harness, install this lug, otherwise, leave it out."
TDT
**********************************
Tim Dawson-Townsend
Systems Engineer
Avidyne Corporation
781-402-7418
tim(at)avidyne.com
**********************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat upholstery pricing |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list
--- MIME Errors ---
A message with no text/plain section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using plaintext formatting.
NOTE! This error can also occur when the poster of the
message has a specific type of computer virus. This virus
WAS NOT forwarded on to the List. The poster should be
informed of the potential problem with their system as soon
as possible.
--- MIME Errors ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Crotch strap lug |
>I'm getting rid of it. Van's told me that most of the people who have
>ordered seats have ordered the 4 point seat belts.
>There is no option for five points in the front seats so why have them
>in the back seats.
>
>
>Scott Schmidt
>RV-10 (Finishing Kit)
>www.freedomflyers.com <http://www.freedomflyers.com/>
Agreed. In my RV8, I use the crotch strap for my front seat only. Back
seat is four point. In the RV10, I don't see a need for the extra strap in
general. It's there to prevent "submarining" under the lap belt in a sudden
stoppage.....as in, flying into a mountain. For acro mounts, it's a must to
keep your butt securely clamped to the seat, but for a touring airplane,
it's probably too intimidating/restricting to the average non-fliers who
will occupy the extra seats in these airplanes.
My view only.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Seat upholstery pricing |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
Randy,
Did you do anything for carpet or sidewalls?
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RV10-List: Seat upholstery pricing
I have received the selling prices back from Abby at Flightline Interiors.
Front seats: $650.00 a pair in cloth, vinyl, or combination like I have.
Rear sears: $675.00 a pair and that includes the foam.
Here is the link to her site. http://my.execpc.com/~erdmannb/ 262-364-6166
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crotch strap lug |
Hey Tim,
Nice to see you here! Yeah, I myself was thinking of ditching
those seat lugs. I have 2 kids to ride in the back, and even
though 5-point harnesses might be "better", I can also see
injuries from people banging things into that lug. At minimum,
when I get my fuse, I'm going to look into how else that attachment
could be made...and hopefully find a way to do without it by maybe
just using 4 point harnesses.
Any new updates from Avidyne as to how the EX500 will work with
equipment this season...software wise I mean?
Tim
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
>
> Here's a test message to see if it works.
>
> Anybody thinking of ditching the Crotch Strap Lugs on the rear seats? I
> don't see the point in having a 5-point harness back there in this
> plane. Somebody's just going to bash their shin on it.
>
> I think Van's should amend the plans to say, "If you're going to have
> five-point harness, install this lug, otherwise, leave it out."
>
> TDT
>
> **********************************
> Tim Dawson-Townsend
> Systems Engineer
> Avidyne Corporation
> 781-402-7418
> tim(at)avidyne.com
> **********************************
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Seat upholstery pricing |
Abby will send me some carpet and the cloth from the center of the seats to use
as panel covers. She stocks it all most of the time. I may send her some panels
to use but Tim is closer and she wants to see his fuse when it gets to him.
Randy
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US SSA) |
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Seat upholstery pricing
Randy,
Did you do anything for carpet or sidewalls?
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RV10-List: Seat upholstery pricing
I have received the selling prices back from Abby at Flightline Interiors.
Front seats: $650.00 a pair in cloth, vinyl, or combination like I have.
Rear sears: $675.00 a pair and that includes the foam.
Here is the link to her site. http://my.execpc.com/~erdmannb/ 262-364-6166
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Seat upholstery pricing |
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
She designed the covers like Oregon Aero did. It is a slip-on and Velcro down setup.
You will just pick your style and she will ship them with instructions.
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Seat upholstery pricing
That's pretty reasonable, what state do we have to have them shipped too?
Rick S.
40185
Wings
http://www.matronics.com/ListFeaturesNavigator?RV10-List
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Crotch strap lug |
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
Glad to see you made it. I am planning on designing a cup holder to and use a
pin to take them out. If it doesn't work I will wack them off and spot paint the
area. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend
Subject: RV10-List: Crotch strap lug
Here's a test message to see if it works.
Anybody thinking of ditching the Crotch Strap Lugs on the rear seats? I don't
see the point in having a 5-point harness back there in this plane. Somebody's
just going to bash their shin on it.
I think Van's should amend the plans to say, "If you're going to have five-point
harness, install this lug, otherwise, leave it out."
TDT
**********************************
Tim Dawson-Townsend
Systems Engineer
Avidyne Corporation
781-402-7418
tim(at)avidyne.com
**********************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Crotch strap lug |
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
Tim:
Not sure exactly what you're asking, but the EX500 is doing great. The latest
software version is certified and we are just doing a small "beta" test in the
field right now before we start shipping the new stuff. The CMax JeppView approach
charts are sweet, and so is the XM datalink weather.
Anyone who's interested should wander by our booth at Sun N Fun and check out the
latest toys.
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Crotch strap lug
Hey Tim,
Nice to see you here! Yeah, I myself was thinking of ditching
those seat lugs. I have 2 kids to ride in the back, and even
though 5-point harnesses might be "better", I can also see
injuries from people banging things into that lug. At minimum,
when I get my fuse, I'm going to look into how else that attachment
could be made...and hopefully find a way to do without it by maybe
just using 4 point harnesses.
Any new updates from Avidyne as to how the EX500 will work with
equipment this season...software wise I mean?
Tim
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
>
> Here's a test message to see if it works.
>
> Anybody thinking of ditching the Crotch Strap Lugs on the rear seats? I
> don't see the point in having a 5-point harness back there in this
> plane. Somebody's just going to bash their shin on it.
>
> I think Van's should amend the plans to say, "If you're going to have
> five-point harness, install this lug, otherwise, leave it out."
>
> TDT
>
> **********************************
> Tim Dawson-Townsend
> Systems Engineer
> Avidyne Corporation
> 781-402-7418
> tim(at)avidyne.com
> **********************************
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
| Subject: | Heads up for Builder Assist |
For those that made a switch without also monitoring the ole yahoo today,
the first RV-10 built for profit "not education or pleasure" is now
purported to be listed for sale in Trade A Plane.
0 time SMOH Lycoming IO-540, Hartzell 2 blade, good glass panel, A & P built
by repeat offender for immediate sale on completion. That will sure help on
establishing market value for insurance coverage and may strengthen the
market for former Lancair purchasers who had money to burn and no desire to
build. $287K with your choice of colors. Wonder if Randy will talk to me
again or consider $285 for his? Let's see that's about $ 82 per hour vs. $8
for a Bonanza Metalcrafter QB. Back to Work!
John W. Cox
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Heads up for Builder Assist |
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
Get out the check book John. I will give you a credit for the 6 hours of work the
other night. And I will make it the $82.00 figure. So lets see... 285,000.00
- $492.00 = $284518.00. Ok.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Subject: RV10-List: Heads up for Builder Assist
For those that made a switch without also monitoring the ole yahoo today,
the first RV-10 built for profit "not education or pleasure" is now
purported to be listed for sale in Trade A Plane.
0 time SMOH Lycoming IO-540, Hartzell 2 blade, good glass panel, A & P built
by repeat offender for immediate sale on completion. That will sure help on
establishing market value for insurance coverage and may strengthen the
market for former Lancair purchasers who had money to burn and no desire to
build. $287K with your choice of colors. Wonder if Randy will talk to me
again or consider $285 for his? Let's see that's about $ 82 per hour vs. $8
for a Bonanza Metalcrafter QB. Back to Work!
John W. Cox
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
| Subject: | Heads up for Builder Assist |
What a great deal, and who says you have to build Lancairs for clients to
make money.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Heads up for Builder Assist
Get out the check book John. I will give you a credit for the 6 hours of
work the other night. And I will make it the $82.00 figure. So lets see...
285,000.00 - $492.00 = $284518.00. Ok.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Subject: RV10-List: Heads up for Builder Assist
For those that made a switch without also monitoring the ole yahoo today,
the first RV-10 built for profit "not education or pleasure" is now
purported to be listed for sale in Trade A Plane.
0 time SMOH Lycoming IO-540, Hartzell 2 blade, good glass panel, A & P built
by repeat offender for immediate sale on completion. That will sure help on
establishing market value for insurance coverage and may strengthen the
market for former Lancair purchasers who had money to burn and no desire to
build. $287K with your choice of colors. Wonder if Randy will talk to me
again or consider $285 for his? Let's see that's about $ 82 per hour vs. $8
for a Bonanza Metalcrafter QB. Back to Work!
John W. Cox
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crotch strap lug |
Hey Tim,
I've been mainly trying to follow their progress with XM weather, and
also any ability to work better with the GNS-480. When I was at OSH,
the vendors kind of told me if I wanted a GNS480, I should get an
MX-20. If I wanted a garmin 430/530, I should get a EX500. Wondering
if there is anything new now that would make it better to work
with a GNS480? I like the EX500 display better than the MX20, but I'm
having a hard time being willing to give up the features of the
GNS480.
I'll be swingin' by SNF this year though, so you can bet I'll be
checking it out.
Tim
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
>
>
>
> Tim:
>
> Not sure exactly what you're asking, but the EX500 is doing great.
> The latest software version is certified and we are just doing a
> small "beta" test in the field right now before we start shipping the
> new stuff. The CMax JeppView approach charts are sweet, and so is
> the XM datalink weather.
>
> Anyone who's interested should wander by our booth at Sun N Fun and
> check out the latest toys.
>
> TDT
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
Tim:
The GNS-480 will work with the EX500 when connected with the "Aviation format"
RS232 interface. As of last notice, the GNS-480 did not support the GAMA 429
standard, so that prevents an ARINC 429 interface with the EX500 until that
changes (or we do!)
The GNS-480 also has a proprietary "high speed" serial output that, when used
with the MX-20, supports one or two features that the regular "Aviation format"
interface does not, for instance automatically telling the MX-20 what specific
approach you have loaded in the GNS-480.
But on the flip side, people who have flown both MX-20 and EX500 with JeppView
approach plates have been reporting that the EX500 implementation is much more
responsive and in the end, more usable than on the MX-20.
And, of course, I don't think you can get XM datalink weather on MX-20 . . .
But, by all means stop by the Avidyne booth and poke around and ask all the questions
you would like. You might even see me there! (if they can pry me away
from the Van's booth . . .)
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Crotch strap lug
Hey Tim,
I've been mainly trying to follow their progress with XM weather, and
also any ability to work better with the GNS-480. When I was at OSH,
the vendors kind of told me if I wanted a GNS480, I should get an
MX-20. If I wanted a garmin 430/530, I should get a EX500. Wondering
if there is anything new now that would make it better to work
with a GNS480? I like the EX500 display better than the MX20, but I'm
having a hard time being willing to give up the features of the
GNS480.
I'll be swingin' by SNF this year though, so you can bet I'll be
checking it out.
Tim
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
>
>
>
> Tim:
>
> Not sure exactly what you're asking, but the EX500 is doing great.
> The latest software version is certified and we are just doing a
> small "beta" test in the field right now before we start shipping the
> new stuff. The CMax JeppView approach charts are sweet, and so is
> the XM datalink weather.
>
> Anyone who's interested should wander by our booth at Sun N Fun and
> check out the latest toys.
>
> TDT
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing tank hole closures |
I purchased a bag-o-rivets at SNF last year, it had some round head AN470AD5
rivets in there, just bucked them in and it feels better than using pull
rivets.....
Mike Kraus
N223RV - RV-4 Flying
N213RV - RV-10 - Working on wings......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net> |
Almost every message I get is double-sent. What do I have set incorrectly?
Rob
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US
SSA)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: I'm In Too
Looks like it does, welcome!
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Hertner
Subject: RV10-List: I'm In Too
Dave Hertner here. This is a test to see if this thing works.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Crotch strap lug |
Not to mention if you have any female friends flying and wearing a skirt...
Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Seat upholstery pricing |
| From: | "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> |
Randy
Is she also doing all of your other interior panels, like she does for
the other RV's? She does outstanding work on the pieces, and the detail
in covering everything is incredible. I want her to do my entire
interior, and was wondering how far off from a complete line she will
be, by using yours, we are all benefiting.
THX for letting the vendors use yours for their prototypes!
Dan
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RV10-List: Seat upholstery pricing
I have received the selling prices back from Abby at Flightline
Interiors.
Front seats: $650.00 a pair in cloth, vinyl, or combination like I have.
Rear sears: $675.00 a pair and that includes the foam.
Here is the link to her site. http://my.execpc.com/~erdmannb/
262-364-6166
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Hours by section? |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
Out of curiosity, how many hours does everyone have in for:
* Tail kit inventory
* VS
* Rudder
* HS
I'm at 6, 14.2, 18, and 3.75 through preping the spars for alodine (basically through
8-5 pre-riveting). Just curious if I'm ahead, even or behind the curve.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Seat upholstery pricing |
I asked this very question to Abby directly, here's her response:
Hi Bob, I was going to e-mail you this week. Yes, I have just gotten the
patterns done to make the front seat covers. I am still working on the
rear seats, the design is very similar to the front seats of the 7 and 9,
so I went with the pricing that I charge for those.
Leather is an option. I haven't made a set with leather yet,
so I can't honestly tell you the weight difference. It would be $500 more
for the set in leather.
The rear seats will be made from a high quality Fire Rated
foam with a top layer of visco-elastic foam for comfort.
As far as the sidewall pieces go, I don't have anything to
pattern yet. But I can supply anything that you would need as far as fabric,
carpet and floor foam in raw materials.
I may not have a complete interior yet but the front seats
will get you flying. These can be installed by you, so you won't have to
send the seats.
I am hoping to have new pictures on my website by the end of
the week. There will be three seat styles to choose from.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
Thanks, Abby
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R. |
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Seat upholstery pricing
Randy
Is she also doing all of your other interior panels, like she does for the other
RV's? She does outstanding work on the pieces, and the detail in covering everything
is incredible. I want her to do my entire interior, and was wondering
how far off from a complete line she will be, by using yours, we are all benefiting.
THX for letting the vendors use yours for their prototypes!
Dan
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RV10-List: Seat upholstery pricing
I have received the selling prices back from Abby at Flightline Interiors.
Front seats: $650.00 a pair in cloth, vinyl, or combination like I have.
Rear sears: $675.00 a pair and that includes the foam.
Here is the link to her site. http://my.execpc.com/~erdmannb/ 262-364-6166
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Hours by section? |
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
I had about 465 hours into the tail kit. Don't worry about the time. You are
in a steep learning fase and your speed may very. The plane is fast so you don't
have to be. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
Subject: RV10-List: Hours by section?
Out of curiosity, how many hours does everyone have in for:
* Tail kit inventory
* VS
* Rudder
* HS
I'm at 6, 14.2, 18, and 3.75 through preping the spars for alodine (basically through
8-5 pre-riveting). Just curious if I'm ahead, even or behind the curve.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Seat upholstery pricing |
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
I can't remember the exact number, but I talked to Oregon Aero last year about
rear seats, and they mentioned a pretty competitive price for the rear seat foam
set (uncovered).
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US SSA)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Seat upholstery pricing
I asked this very question to Abby directly, here's her response:
Hi Bob, I was going to e-mail you this week. Yes, I have just gotten the
patterns done to make the front seat covers. I am still working on the
rear seats, the design is very similar to the front seats of the 7 and 9,
so I went with the pricing that I charge for those.
Leather is an option. I haven't made a set with leather yet,
so I can't honestly tell you the weight difference. It would be $500 more
for the set in leather.
The rear seats will be made from a high quality Fire Rated
foam with a top layer of visco-elastic foam for comfort.
As far as the sidewall pieces go, I don't have anything to
pattern yet. But I can supply anything that you would need as far as fabric,
carpet and floor foam in raw materials.
I may not have a complete interior yet but the front seats
will get you flying. These can be installed by you, so you won't have to
send the seats.
I am hoping to have new pictures on my website by the end of
the week. There will be three seat styles to choose from.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
Thanks, Abby
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R.
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Seat upholstery pricing
Randy
Is she also doing all of your other interior panels, like she does for the other
RV's? She does outstanding work on the pieces, and the detail in covering everything
is incredible. I want her to do my entire interior, and was wondering
how far off from a complete line she will be, by using yours, we are all benefiting.
THX for letting the vendors use yours for their prototypes!
Dan
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RV10-List: Seat upholstery pricing
I have received the selling prices back from Abby at Flightline Interiors.
Front seats: $650.00 a pair in cloth, vinyl, or combination like I have.
Rear sears: $675.00 a pair and that includes the foam.
Here is the link to her site. http://my.execpc.com/~erdmannb/ 262-364-6166
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Seat upholstery pricing |
Dan, I don't know if she is but I would assume she is. She needs some a plane closer
to her which Tim can supply. She is getting lots of calls already and you
might call here to add your name to the list. She is very very nice to work
with. Randy
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R. |
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Seat upholstery pricing
Randy
Is she also doing all of your other interior panels, like she does for the other
RV's? She does outstanding work on the pieces, and the detail in covering everything
is incredible. I want her to do my entire interior, and was wondering
how far off from a complete line she will be, by using yours, we are all benefiting.
THX for letting the vendors use yours for their prototypes!
Dan
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From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RV10-List: Seat upholstery pricing
I have received the selling prices back from Abby at Flightline Interiors.
Front seats: $650.00 a pair in cloth, vinyl, or combination like I have.
Rear sears: $675.00 a pair and that includes the foam.
Here is the link to her site. http://my.execpc.com/~erdmannb/ 262-364-6166
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| Subject: | Seat upholstery pricing |
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
I bought my rear seat foam at Hi Tech Foam in Nebraska. After talking with Abby
I would have just bought it from here. I think I have 200.00 in rear seat foam
and won't have that many butts in them. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Seat upholstery pricing
July 21, 2004 - March 23, 2005
RV10-Archive.digest.vol-ab