RV10-Archive.digest.vol-ak
June 08, 2005 - June 15, 2005
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank countersink ? |
-->
Rick & Dan,
Thanks for the great advice. Warming up the microstop, getting
ready to go......john
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy's Abros mail" <randy(at)abros.com> |
| Subject: | How many 10's at Osh. |
Any guess as to how many 10's will show and how many will be completed but
now make it. I think there will be 5 flying and 4 will make it to Osh.
Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
While we're on the subject of paint....
Last night I just stayed up working designs with my wife. I'm hoping
to finalize my paint decision so that I have time to get an embroidery
pattern created, and have a couple of shirts embroidered before OSH...
I find that trying to design and think up paint schemes is agonizing.
Here are some of my 2nd run of ideas.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/paint/index.html
Any comments would be welcomed, and suggestions as to a) alternative
ideas, or b) how easily paintable some of these would be, would be
very appreciated. Feel free to download any of them if you think
you'd like them yourself, and I also have the line drawings there
for you to use when designing your own schemes. I created the
3D view from a photo of the Van's N410RV, and I used the CAD
drawings for the side view.
Once I get the side view picked out and finalized, I will be preparing
the line drawings for the top and front view as well, and then working
it into the 3D view. I found that I couldn't design very well in
3D because you couldn't tell how the paint would look around the
N-Number.
Tim
PS: I got myself a real nice high-end paint gun:
SataJet RP Digital II. It's known as being a spectacular gun, which
I'll need, as I'm sure I'm not a spectacular painter. ;)
For those looking for sprayguns, check out:
http://www.spraygunindustry.com/
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
Randy DeBauw wrote:
>
> I think it is even better looking then the photo shows. The white
> doesn't look good in the photo and in person I bet it look fabulous. I
> do like the green. I am contemplating doing a Cirrus style stripes.
> Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
> Dawson-Townsend
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 6:59 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Paint
>
> -->
>
>
> I think Ed McGinty is winnging the paint contest so far . . .
>
> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?postid=9165
>
> TDT
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Hasbrouck
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 9:54 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel tank countersink ?
>
>
> -->
>
> Rick & Dan,
> Thanks for the great advice. Warming up the microstop, getting
> ready to go......john
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
| Subject: | How many 10's at Osh. |
I don't know how many other people are close. I didn't know about the first
one flying and the third one flying until they were already in the air. I
am sure there will be 5 flying unless something happens to one of them.
Anybody know the plans of the 1st and 3rd on going to Oshkosh? Anybody know
Doug Peterson's plans? I am sure we all know that Randy will be there. We
sure are hoping to make it.
That firewall forward kit is a bunch of work, but we should be done by the
end of this week. Next week the wings go on and we finishing plumbing and
start wiring (not a wire in the plane yet). Probably 2 weeks of wiring and
then we're on the finishing touches (hopefully flying before the end of the
2 weeks of wiring, as long as we have the engine monitor and basic
instruments hooked up).
N256H #40241
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy's Abros
mail
Subject: RV10-List: How many 10's at Osh.
Any guess as to how many 10's will show and how many will be completed but
now make it. I think there will be 5 flying and 4 will make it to Osh.
Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark" <2eyedocs(at)comcast.net> |
Nice Tim! I like #5. I like having the top of the empennage painted in the back
section and I really like the stripe thingy on the vertical stab & rudder.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Olson
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Paint
While we're on the subject of paint....
Last night I just stayed up working designs with my wife. I'm hoping
to finalize my paint decision so that I have time to get an embroidery
pattern created, and have a couple of shirts embroidered before OSH...
I find that trying to design and think up paint schemes is agonizing.
Here are some of my 2nd run of ideas.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/paint/index.html
Any comments would be welcomed, and suggestions as to a) alternative
ideas, or b) how easily paintable some of these would be, would be
very appreciated. Feel free to download any of them if you think
you'd like them yourself, and I also have the line drawings there
for you to use when designing your own schemes. I created the
3D view from a photo of the Van's N410RV, and I used the CAD
drawings for the side view.
Once I get the side view picked out and finalized, I will be preparing
the line drawings for the top and front view as well, and then working
it into the 3D view. I found that I couldn't design very well in
3D because you couldn't tell how the paint would look around the
N-Number.
Tim
PS: I got myself a real nice high-end paint gun:
SataJet RP Digital II. It's known as being a spectacular gun, which
I'll need, as I'm sure I'm not a spectacular painter. ;)
For those looking for sprayguns, check out:
http://www.spraygunindustry.com/
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
Randy DeBauw wrote:
>
> I think it is even better looking then the photo shows. The white
> doesn't look good in the photo and in person I bet it look fabulous. I
> do like the green. I am contemplating doing a Cirrus style stripes.
> Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
> Dawson-Townsend
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 6:59 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Paint
>
> -->
>
>
> I think Ed McGinty is winnging the paint contest so far . . .
>
> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?postid9165
>
> TDT
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Hasbrouck
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 9:54 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel tank countersink ?
>
>
> -->
>
> Rick & Dan,
> Thanks for the great advice. Warming up the microstop, getting
> ready to go......john
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark" <2eyedocs(at)comcast.net> |
By the way, how are you designing these with such precision. I have tried using
a Paint program with the line drawing, and it comes out looking like it was
done with a fat crayon.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Olson
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Paint
While we're on the subject of paint....
Last night I just stayed up working designs with my wife. I'm hoping
to finalize my paint decision so that I have time to get an embroidery
pattern created, and have a couple of shirts embroidered before OSH...
I find that trying to design and think up paint schemes is agonizing.
Here are some of my 2nd run of ideas.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/paint/index.html
Any comments would be welcomed, and suggestions as to a) alternative
ideas, or b) how easily paintable some of these would be, would be
very appreciated. Feel free to download any of them if you think
you'd like them yourself, and I also have the line drawings there
for you to use when designing your own schemes. I created the
3D view from a photo of the Van's N410RV, and I used the CAD
drawings for the side view.
Once I get the side view picked out and finalized, I will be preparing
the line drawings for the top and front view as well, and then working
it into the 3D view. I found that I couldn't design very well in
3D because you couldn't tell how the paint would look around the
N-Number.
Tim
PS: I got myself a real nice high-end paint gun:
SataJet RP Digital II. It's known as being a spectacular gun, which
I'll need, as I'm sure I'm not a spectacular painter. ;)
For those looking for sprayguns, check out:
http://www.spraygunindustry.com/
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
Randy DeBauw wrote:
>
> I think it is even better looking then the photo shows. The white
> doesn't look good in the photo and in person I bet it look fabulous. I
> do like the green. I am contemplating doing a Cirrus style stripes.
> Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
> Dawson-Townsend
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 6:59 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Paint
>
> -->
>
>
> I think Ed McGinty is winnging the paint contest so far . . .
>
> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?postid9165
>
> TDT
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Hasbrouck
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 9:54 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel tank countersink ?
>
>
> -->
>
> Rick & Dan,
> Thanks for the great advice. Warming up the microstop, getting
> ready to go......john
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
For those who have not yet visited Craig's site, there is a lot of
thought that he puts into his trademarked paint designs.
http://www.schemedesigners.com/samples-kits.htm Those who have
contracted for his service have acknowledged that it was worth the value
received for the price paid. Those going to OSK, put him to the task!
You are well beyond the basics on graphic layout. I think they rock.
Sunlit angles, removable panel wear, rock chips on Horizontal LE,
exhaust residue working its way up the side from the bottom of the
empennage and cowl shake at the firewall should be added to the decision
process.
Your forethought and time investment is evident.
I will hammer away some specific comments later tonight to start the
barrage of low-value opinions- here (but then you did ask). Thanks for
sharing.
Your gun is going to pay dividends, even used by you. Tom Conner (Bend)
uses one and he charges $24-28K for award winning plastic aircraft paint
schemes. At KUAO, Craig is booked 12 months out. Tom is booked 18
months.
Metallic paints can find the slightest sand scratch swell (imperfection)
in the topcoat prep. Dark colors on plastic canopies should be avoided.
For two very clear reasons. I agree with Randy that Ed did a great job
(N770BD)of prep and a gorgeous coordinated color combination but I would
caution other about color choice on composite canopies.... more to be
posted later.
John - KUAO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Paint
While we're on the subject of paint....
Last night I just stayed up working designs with my wife. I'm hoping
to finalize my paint decision so that I have time to get an embroidery
pattern created, and have a couple of shirts embroidered before OSH...
I find that trying to design and think up paint schemes is agonizing.
Here are some of my 2nd run of ideas.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/paint/index.html
Any comments would be welcomed, and suggestions as to a) alternative
ideas, or b) how easily paintable some of these would be, would be
very appreciated. Feel free to download any of them if you think
you'd like them yourself, and I also have the line drawings there
for you to use when designing your own schemes. I created the
3D view from a photo of the Van's N410RV, and I used the CAD
drawings for the side view.
Once I get the side view picked out and finalized, I will be preparing
the line drawings for the top and front view as well, and then working
it into the 3D view. I found that I couldn't design very well in
3D because you couldn't tell how the paint would look around the
N-Number.
Tim
PS: I got myself a real nice high-end paint gun:
SataJet RP Digital II. It's known as being a spectacular gun, which
I'll need, as I'm sure I'm not a spectacular painter. ;)
For those looking for sprayguns, check out:
http://www.spraygunindustry.com/
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
I have a friend that has also used Schemedesigners and was very happy.
In fact they did the paint job and found a shop that will do all the
prep work for him (ie. Fill and sand the fiberglass, ect..) I am trying
to find a local place in Salt Lake where I can have mine painted
sometime this summer and then just finish the inside and panel this
fall.
Here are some designs my brother has done for me. He uses Photoshop to
do these.
I'm still not completely bought off on this one but I really like it so
far.
http://www.freedomflyers.com/Paint%20and%20Design.htm
Also, I am going to fill all my rivets. I have already started on the
tail. It takes a lot of time and patience but man are the surfaces nice
and smooth. I figure I will be filling and sanding for 150+ hours but
it will be worth it. The weight will be very very minimal. I would
guess 10 lbs at the most. I am using a product called body icing on the
rivets and anywhere that needs more than a 1/16" I am using some
aluminum filler or just epoxy and fiberglass. Joe Waltz built an RV-8
in Houston and filled his rivets and it looks awesome. He received an
outstanding aircraft award this year at Sun and Fun. Well, back to
sanding and filling and filling and sanding. The way I see it, I have
more time than money.
Scott Schmidt
Cell: 801-319-3094
sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Paint
For those who have not yet visited Craig's site, there is a lot of
thought that he puts into his trademarked paint designs.
http://www.schemedesigners.com/samples-kits.htm Those who have
contracted for his service have acknowledged that it was worth the value
received for the price paid. Those going to OSK, put him to the task!
You are well beyond the basics on graphic layout. I think they rock.
Sunlit angles, removable panel wear, rock chips on Horizontal LE,
exhaust residue working its way up the side from the bottom of the
empennage and cowl shake at the firewall should be added to the decision
process.
Your forethought and time investment is evident.
I will hammer away some specific comments later tonight to start the
barrage of low-value opinions- here (but then you did ask). Thanks for
sharing.
Your gun is going to pay dividends, even used by you. Tom Conner (Bend)
uses one and he charges $24-28K for award winning plastic aircraft paint
schemes. At KUAO, Craig is booked 12 months out. Tom is booked 18
months.
Metallic paints can find the slightest sand scratch swell (imperfection)
in the topcoat prep. Dark colors on plastic canopies should be avoided.
For two very clear reasons. I agree with Randy that Ed did a great job
(N770BD)of prep and a gorgeous coordinated color combination but I would
caution other about color choice on composite canopies.... more to be
posted later.
John - KUAO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Paint
While we're on the subject of paint....
Last night I just stayed up working designs with my wife. I'm hoping
to finalize my paint decision so that I have time to get an embroidery
pattern created, and have a couple of shirts embroidered before OSH...
I find that trying to design and think up paint schemes is agonizing.
Here are some of my 2nd run of ideas.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/paint/index.html
Any comments would be welcomed, and suggestions as to a) alternative
ideas, or b) how easily paintable some of these would be, would be
very appreciated. Feel free to download any of them if you think
you'd like them yourself, and I also have the line drawings there
for you to use when designing your own schemes. I created the
3D view from a photo of the Van's N410RV, and I used the CAD
drawings for the side view.
Once I get the side view picked out and finalized, I will be preparing
the line drawings for the top and front view as well, and then working
it into the 3D view. I found that I couldn't design very well in
3D because you couldn't tell how the paint would look around the
N-Number.
Tim
PS: I got myself a real nice high-end paint gun:
SataJet RP Digital II. It's known as being a spectacular gun, which
I'll need, as I'm sure I'm not a spectacular painter. ;)
For those looking for sprayguns, check out:
http://www.spraygunindustry.com/
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
<006b01c56c47$4a844f30$94a1a643@MARK>
Thanks Mark, and the others who've commented this far. I also like
Scott's paint possibility...has a lot of similarities actually.
To the question of Mark's asking how I'm doing this:
I'm using PaintShop Pro 8.0, and using the pen tool to overlay
a multi-curved line of about 3 or 4 pixels wide, in either
of the 2 colors. So I outline the area to be shaded in. Then,
I save the image in PaintShopPro's proprietary format, so that
I have multiple versions with all the VECTOR type graphic information
in it.
Then, I merge all - flatten the image down so that it's not a
vector image anymore...which allows me to use the fill tool to
fill in the colored area within it's boundries. Then I save
it again. If I want to put it on the web I save one more
time as a .jpg.
If I don't like what I see, I either adjust the curves, or hit
CTRL-Z (undo) a bunch of times until I get back to where I
wanted to rework from. Then I start the above process again.
it takes time, and it won't be perfect, but then again, when
I go to mask this stuff off it won't be perfect either.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Mark wrote:
> Nice Tim! I like #5. I like having the top of the empennage painted in
> the back section and I really like the stripe thingy on the vertical
> stab & rudder.
>
> Mark
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Tim Olson
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 08, 2005 10:01 AM
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Paint
>
> >
>
> While we're on the subject of paint....
> Last night I just stayed up working designs with my wife. I'm hoping
> to finalize my paint decision so that I have time to get an embroidery
> pattern created, and have a couple of shirts embroidered before OSH...
> I find that trying to design and think up paint schemes is agonizing.
> Here are some of my 2nd run of ideas.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/paint/index.html
>
> Any comments would be welcomed, and suggestions as to a) alternative
> ideas, or b) how easily paintable some of these would be, would be
> very appreciated. Feel free to download any of them if you think
> you'd like them yourself, and I also have the line drawings there
> for you to use when designing your own schemes. I created the
> 3D view from a photo of the Van's N410RV, and I used the CAD
> drawings for the side view.
>
> Once I get the side view picked out and finalized, I will be preparing
> the line drawings for the top and front view as well, and then working
> it into the 3D view. I found that I couldn't design very well in
> 3D because you couldn't tell how the paint would look around the
> N-Number.
>
> Tim
>
> PS: I got myself a real nice high-end paint gun:
> SataJet RP Digital II. It's known as being a spectacular gun, which
> I'll need, as I'm sure I'm not a spectacular painter. ;)
> For those looking for sprayguns, check out:
> http://www.spraygunindustry.com/
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
>
> Randy DeBauw wrote:
> >
> >
> > I think it is even better looking then the photo shows. The white
> > doesn't look good in the photo and in person I bet it look
> fabulous. I
> > do like the green. I am contemplating doing a Cirrus style stripes.
> > Randy
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
> > Dawson-Townsend
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 6:59 AM
> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Paint
> >
> > --> >
> >
> >
> > I think Ed McGinty is winnging the paint contest so far . . .
> >
> > http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?postid=9165
> >
> > TDT
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
> Hasbrouck
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 9:54 AM
> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel tank countersink ?
> >
> >
> > --> >
> >
> > Rick & Dan,
> > Thanks for the great advice. Warming up the microstop, getting
> > ready to go......john
> >
> > =========================p; Navigator Photoshare, and much
> much ;
> ===============================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
I noticed the Ed McGinty paint job today....very nice indeed. I
personally like the idea of a lighter canopy but his looks
fantastic. Glossy too.
The thing that stands out is the small N-numbers though. I realize
that A) they may be temporary, and B) some people prefer smaller
numbers, and C) that you may be able to get by with small
N-numbers and not get in trouble, but....here's what I ran
across today...
I had my wife search the FAR's to verify the legal requirements.
They are posted below.
My comments though, I'll limit to a couple of specific lines.
#1: "...or a light-sport aircraft when the maximum cruising speed
of the aircraft does not exceed 180 knots CAS..."
On N410RV, the top speed of that plane is listes as 208mph,
which is 181 kts. I know, the "cruising" speed won't be
the same as "top speed", but with the new blended airfoil
prop being a knot or two faster, your top speed definitely
will.
#2: (This one is the biggie)
section (h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft
penetrating an ADIZ or DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft
temporary or permanent nationality and registration marks at
least 12 inches high.
Here I think is the largest reason as to why you should
probably forego small N-numbers and just go 12". Remember
that the area around Washington DC is currently an ADIZ,
and there has been a push to make other areas similarly
restrictive. This law is very un-ambiguous and would
absolutely mean that you are not welcome to fly a small
N-numbered plane in those areas. For my plane, I would
surely not want add the possible future restriction of my
flyable airspace just to avoid having to put 12" letters
on my plane.
Again, this isn't pointed at Ed, or anyone else for that
matter. Just something I walked into today that gave
me a 100% reason to go 12" lettering.
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
45.29 Size of marks.
top
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (f) of this section, each operator
of an aircraft shall display marks on the aircraft meeting the size
requirements of this section.
(b) Height. Except as provided in paragraph (h) of this part, the
nationality and registration marks must be of equal height and on
(1) Fixed-wing aircraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that:
(i) An aircraft displaying marks at least 2 inches high before November
1, 1981 and an aircraft manufactured after November 2, 1981, but before
January 1, 1983, may display those marks until the aircraft is repainted
or the marks are repainted, restored, or changed;
(ii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on a glider;
(iii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on an aircraft for
which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate under 21.191 (d),
21.191 (g), or 21.191 (i) of this chapter to operate as an exhibition
aircraft, an amateur-built aircraft, or a light-sport aircraft when the
maximum cruising speed of the aircraft does not exceed 180 knots CAS; and
(iv) Marks may be displayed on an exhibition, antique, or other aircraft
in accordance with 45.22.
(2) Airships, spherical balloons, nonspherical balloons, powered
parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft must be at least 3 inches
high; and
(3) Rotorcraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that rotorcraft
displaying before April 18, 1983, marks required by 45.29(b)(3) in
effect on April 17, 1983, and rotorcraft manufactured on or after April
18, 1983, but before December 31, 1983, may display those marks until
the aircraft is repainted or the marks are repainted, restored, or changed.
(c) Width. Characters must be two-thirds as wide as they are high,
except the number 1, which must be one-sixth as wide as it is high,
and the letters M and W which may be as wide as they are high.
(d) Thickness. Characters must be formed by solid lines one-sixth as
thick as the character is high.
(e) Spacing. The space between each character may not be less than
one-fourth of the character width.
(f) If either one of the surfaces authorized for displaying required
marks under 45.25 is large enough for display of marks meeting the size
requirements of this section and the other is not, full-size marks shall
be placed on the larger surface. If neither surface is large enough for
full-size marks, marks as large as practicable shall be displayed on the
larger of the two surfaces. If any surface authorized to be marked by
45.27 is not large enough for full-size marks, marks as large as
practicable shall be placed on the largest of the authorized surfaces.
(g) Uniformity. The marks required by this part for fixed-wing aircraft
must have the same height, width, thickness, and spacing on both sides
of the aircraft.
(h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft penetrating an
ADIZ or DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft temporary or permanent
nationality and registration marks at least 12 inches high.
[Doc. No. 2047, 29 FR 3223, Mar. 11, 1964, as amended by Amdt. 452, 31
FR 9863, July 21, 1966; Amdt. 459, 42 FR 41102, Aug. 15, 1977; Amdt.
4513, 46 FR 48604, Oct. 1, 1981; Amdt. 4515, 48 FR 11392, Mar. 17,
1983; Amdt. 4517, 52 FR 34102, Sept. 9, 1987; 52 FR 36566, Sept. 30,
1987; Amdt. 4524, 69 FR 44863, July 27, 2004]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N-Number Sizing |
I believe 12" N numbers are required for flight into Canada and Mexico.
Another reason for the larger numbers.
Larry
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> I noticed the Ed McGinty paint job today....very nice indeed. I
> personally like the idea of a lighter canopy but his looks
> fantastic. Glossy too.
>
> The thing that stands out is the small N-numbers though. I realize
> that A) they may be temporary, and B) some people prefer smaller
> numbers, and C) that you may be able to get by with small
> N-numbers and not get in trouble, but....here's what I ran
> across today...
>
> I had my wife search the FAR's to verify the legal requirements.
> They are posted below.
>
> My comments though, I'll limit to a couple of specific lines.
>
> #1: "...or a light-sport aircraft when the maximum cruising speed
> of the aircraft does not exceed 180 knots CAS..."
>
> On N410RV, the top speed of that plane is listes as 208mph,
> which is 181 kts. I know, the "cruising" speed won't be
> the same as "top speed", but with the new blended airfoil
> prop being a knot or two faster, your top speed definitely
> will.
>
> #2: (This one is the biggie)
> section (h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft
> penetrating an ADIZ or DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft
> temporary or permanent nationality and registration marks at
> least 12 inches high.
>
> Here I think is the largest reason as to why you should
> probably forego small N-numbers and just go 12". Remember
> that the area around Washington DC is currently an ADIZ,
> and there has been a push to make other areas similarly
> restrictive. This law is very un-ambiguous and would
> absolutely mean that you are not welcome to fly a small
> N-numbered plane in those areas. For my plane, I would
> surely not want add the possible future restriction of my
> flyable airspace just to avoid having to put 12" letters
> on my plane.
>
> Again, this isn't pointed at Ed, or anyone else for that
> matter. Just something I walked into today that gave
> me a 100% reason to go 12" lettering.
> Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Curtis <wcurtis(at)core.com> |
Tim,
I considered getting a high end paint gun also, but decided instead to get a good
paint system. I'm guessing you paid a couple of hundered dollars for that
gun, I figure for $900-1100 I can get a complete HVLP system with turbine, respirator,
AND gun. I'm looking at the Axis Citation 4 stage turbine system. No
constant running of my compressor to keep up with the air volume requirements
and no moisture filters to deal with. Just my $0.02.
available here:
<http://search.stores.ebay.com/search/search.dll?query=citation&srchdesc=y&sid=5549674&store=autobodydepot&colorid=-1&fp=0&st=1&fsoo=1&fsop=1>
William Curtis
http://members.core.com/~wcurtis/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Thyssen <jump2(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N-Number Sizing |
You are allowed to put temp numbers on. They can be black tape. And then pull them
back off when you are not going into that type of air zone or the bahama or
Mexico.
pat
Tim Olson wrote:
I noticed the Ed McGinty paint job today....very nice indeed. I
personally like the idea of a lighter canopy but his looks
fantastic. Glossy too.
The thing that stands out is the small N-numbers though. I realize
that A) they may be temporary, and B) some people prefer smaller
numbers, and C) that you may be able to get by with small
N-numbers and not get in trouble, but....here's what I ran
across today...
I had my wife search the FAR's to verify the legal requirements.
They are posted below.
My comments though, I'll limit to a couple of specific lines.
#1: "...or a light-sport aircraft when the maximum cruising speed
of the aircraft does not exceed 180 knots CAS..."
On N410RV, the top speed of that plane is listes as 208mph,
which is 181 kts. I know, the "cruising" speed won't be
the same as "top speed", but with the new blended airfoil
prop being a knot or two faster, your top speed definitely
will.
#2: (This one is the biggie)
section (h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft
penetrating an ADIZ or DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft
temporary or permanent nationality and registration marks at
least 12 inches high.
Here I think is the largest reason as to why you should
probably forego small N-numbers and just go 12". Remember
that the area around Washington DC is currently an ADIZ,
and there has been a push to make other areas similarly
restrictive. This law is very un-ambiguous and would
absolutely mean that you are not welcome to fly a small
N-numbered plane in those areas. For my plane, I would
surely not want add the possible future restriction of my
flyable airspace just to avoid having to put 12" letters
on my plane.
Again, this isn't pointed at Ed, or anyone else for that
matter. Just something I walked into today that gave
me a 100% reason to go 12" lettering.
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
45.29 Size of marks.
top
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (f) of this section, each operator
of an aircraft shall display marks on the aircraft meeting the size
requirements of this section.
(b) Height. Except as provided in paragraph (h) of this part, the
nationality and registration marks must be of equal height and on
(1) Fixed-wing aircraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that:
(i) An aircraft displaying marks at least 2 inches high before November
1, 1981 and an aircraft manufactured after November 2, 1981, but before
January 1, 1983, may display those marks until the aircraft is repainted
or the marks are repainted, restored, or changed;
(ii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on a glider;
(iii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on an aircraft for
which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate under 21.191 (d),
21.191 (g), or 21.191 (i) of this chapter to operate as an exhibition
aircraft, an amateur-built aircraft, or a light-sport aircraft when the
maximum cruising speed of the aircraft does not exceed 180 knots CAS; and
(iv) Marks may be displayed on an exhibition, antique, or other aircraft
in accordance with 45.22.
(2) Airships, spherical balloons, nonspherical balloons, powered
parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft must be at least 3 inches
high; and
(3) Rotorcraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that rotorcraft
displaying before April 18, 1983, marks required by 45.29(b)(3) in
effect on April 17, 1983, and rotorcraft manufactured on or after April
18, 1983, but before December 31, 1983, may display those marks until
the aircraft is repainted or the marks are repainted, restored, or changed.
(c) Width. Characters must be two-thirds as wide as they are high,
except the number 1, which must be one-sixth as wide as it is high,
and the letters M and W which may be as wide as they are high.
(d) Thickness. Characters must be formed by solid lines one-sixth as
thick as the character is high.
(e) Spacing. The space between each character may not be less than
one-fourth of the character width.
(f) If either one of the surfaces authorized for displaying required
marks under 45.25 is large enough for display of marks meeting the size
requirements of this section and the other is not, full-size marks shall
be placed on the larger surface. If neither surface is large enough for
full-size marks, marks as large as practicable shall be displayed on the
larger of the two surfaces. If any surface authorized to be marked by
45.27 is not large enough for full-size marks, marks as large as
practicable shall be placed on the largest of the authorized surfaces.
(g) Uniformity. The marks required by this part for fixed-wing aircraft
must have the same height, width, thickness, and spacing on both sides
of the aircraft.
(h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft penetrating an
ADIZ or DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft temporary or permanent
nationality and registration marks at least 12 inches high.
[Doc. No. 2047, 29 FR 3223, Mar. 11, 1964, as amended by Amdt. 452, 31
FR 9863, July 21, 1966; Amdt. 459, 42 FR 41102, Aug. 15, 1977; Amdt.
4513, 46 FR 48604, Oct. 1, 1981; Amdt. 4515, 48 FR 11392, Mar. 17,
1983; Amdt. 4517, 52 FR 34102, Sept. 9, 1987; 52 FR 36566, Sept. 30,
1987; Amdt. 4524, 69 FR 44863, July 27, 2004]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com> |
Let me ask this. What would you expect to pay to have a professional
place just shoot the plane if you did all the prep work and all the
taping? I really don't even want to attempt to paint this plane. That
is one thing that can make the plane look like a million bucks or a
couple bucks.
Scott Schmidt
Cell: 801-319-3094
sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Curtis
Subject: RV10-List: RE: Paint
Tim,
I considered getting a high end paint gun also, but decided instead to
get a good paint system. I'm guessing you paid a couple of hundered
dollars for that gun, I figure for $900-1100 I can get a complete HVLP
system with turbine, respirator, AND gun. I'm looking at the Axis
Citation 4 stage turbine system. No constant running of my compressor to
keep up with the air volume requirements and no moisture filters to deal
with. Just my $0.02.
available here:
William Curtis
http://members.core.com/~wcurtis/
________________________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
Now you know my reason. I don't know if I will but I do plan on making a trip to
Grand Cayman. If I do I will need larger letters. The same goes for Canada
I believe. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: RV10-List: N-Number Sizing
I noticed the Ed McGinty paint job today....very nice indeed. I personally like
the idea of a lighter canopy but his looks fantastic. Glossy too.
The thing that stands out is the small N-numbers though. I realize that A) they
may be temporary, and B) some people prefer smaller numbers, and C) that you
may be able to get by with small N-numbers and not get in trouble, but....here's
what I ran across today...
I had my wife search the FAR's to verify the legal requirements.
They are posted below.
My comments though, I'll limit to a couple of specific lines.
#1: "...or a light-sport aircraft when the maximum cruising speed of the aircraft
does not exceed 180 knots CAS..."
On N410RV, the top speed of that plane is listes as 208mph,
which is 181 kts. I know, the "cruising" speed won't be
the same as "top speed", but with the new blended airfoil prop being a knot or
two faster, your top speed definitely will.
#2: (This one is the biggie)
section (h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft penetrating an ADIZ
or DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft temporary or permanent nationality
and registration marks at least 12 inches high.
Here I think is the largest reason as to why you should
probably forego small N-numbers and just go 12". Remember
that the area around Washington DC is currently an ADIZ, and there has been a push
to make other areas similarly
restrictive. This law is very un-ambiguous and would
absolutely mean that you are not welcome to fly a small
N-numbered plane in those areas. For my plane, I would
surely not want add the possible future restriction of my flyable airspace just
to avoid having to put 12" letters on my plane.
Again, this isn't pointed at Ed, or anyone else for that matter. Just something
I walked into today that gave me a 100% reason to go 12" lettering.
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
45.29 Size of marks.
top
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (f) of this section, each operator of an aircraft
shall display marks on the aircraft meeting the size requirements of this
section.
(b) Height. Except as provided in paragraph (h) of this part, the nationality and
registration marks must be of equal height and on-
(1) Fixed-wing aircraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that:
(i) An aircraft displaying marks at least 2 inches high before November 1, 1981
and an aircraft manufactured after November 2, 1981, but before January 1, 1983,
may display those marks until the aircraft is repainted or the marks are repainted,
restored, or changed;
(ii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on a glider;
(iii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on an aircraft for which the
FAA has issued an experimental certificate under 21.191 (d),
21.191 (g), or 21.191 (i) of this chapter to operate as an exhibition aircraft,
an amateur-built aircraft, or a light-sport aircraft when the maximum cruising
speed of the aircraft does not exceed 180 knots CAS; and
(iv) Marks may be displayed on an exhibition, antique, or other aircraft in accordance
with 45.22.
(2) Airships, spherical balloons, nonspherical balloons, powered parachutes, and
weight-shift-control aircraft must be at least 3 inches high; and
(3) Rotorcraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that rotorcraft displaying
before April 18, 1983, marks required by 45.29(b)(3) in effect on April 17,
1983, and rotorcraft manufactured on or after April 18, 1983, but before December
31, 1983, may display those marks until the aircraft is repainted or the
marks are repainted, restored, or changed.
(c) Width. Characters must be two-thirds as wide as they are high, except the number
"1", which must be one-sixth as wide as it is high, and the letters "M"
and "W" which may be as wide as they are high.
(d) Thickness. Characters must be formed by solid lines one-sixth as thick as the
character is high.
(e) Spacing. The space between each character may not be less than one-fourth of
the character width.
(f) If either one of the surfaces authorized for displaying required marks under
45.25 is large enough for display of marks meeting the size requirements of
this section and the other is not, full-size marks shall be placed on the larger
surface. If neither surface is large enough for full-size marks, marks as large
as practicable shall be displayed on the larger of the two surfaces. If any
surface authorized to be marked by
45.27 is not large enough for full-size marks, marks as large as practicable shall
be placed on the largest of the authorized surfaces.
(g) Uniformity. The marks required by this part for fixed-wing aircraft must have
the same height, width, thickness, and spacing on both sides of the aircraft.
(h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft penetrating an ADIZ or DEWIZ
shall display on that aircraft temporary or permanent nationality and registration
marks at least 12 inches high.
[Doc. No. 2047, 29 FR 3223, Mar. 11, 1964, as amended by Amdt. 45-2, 31 FR 9863,
July 21, 1966; Amdt. 45-9, 42 FR 41102, Aug. 15, 1977; Amdt.
45-13, 46 FR 48604, Oct. 1, 1981; Amdt. 45-15, 48 FR 11392, Mar. 17, 1983; Amdt.
45-17, 52 FR 34102, Sept. 9, 1987; 52 FR 36566, Sept. 30, 1987; Amdt. 45-24,
69 FR 44863, July 27, 2004]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne @ Engravers.net" <wayne(at)engravers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N-Number Sizing |
Aircraft Engravers makes vinyl N-numbers, not the graphics for the whole plane. However, we have made temporary N-numbers when planes are sold or as a temps for ferry flights. We use the paint mask material (which only comes in white) cut in a rectangle a little larger than the finished N-number size and then apply the new N-number on top of the paint mask. When the temporary N-number needs to be removed it can be done with ease. I have had these installed on Gulfstreams and Canadair Challengers without any problems of them peeling off before they needed to be removed. This could be used to fly to foreign countries and upon your return they can be removed to reveal the original 3" height numbers. http://www.engravers.net/aircraft/vinyl-aircraft.htm
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Thyssen
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: N-Number Sizing
You are allowed to put temp numbers on. They can be black tape. And then pull
them back off when you are not going into that type of air zone or the bahama
or Mexico.
pat
of the aircraft does not exceed 180 knots CAS..."
On N410RV, the top speed of that plane is listes as 208mph,
which is 181 kts. I know, the "cruising" speed won't be
the same as "top speed", but with the new blended airfoil
prop being a knot or two faster, your top speed definitely
will.
#2: (This one is the biggie)
section (h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft
penetrating an ADIZ or DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft
temporary or permanent nationality and registration marks at
least 12 inches high.
Here I think is the largest reason as to why you should
probably forego small N-numbers and just go 12". Remember
that the area around Washington DC is currently an ADIZ,
and there has been a push to make other areas similarly
restrictive. This law is very un-ambiguous and would
absolutely mean that you are not welcome to fly a small
N-numbered plane in those areas. For my plane, I would
surely not want add the possible future restriction of my
flyable airspace just to avoid having to put 12" letters
on my plane.
Again, this is n't pointed at Ed, or anyone else for that
matter. Just something I walked into today that gave
me a 100% reason to go 12" lettering.
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
=A7 45.29 Size of marks.
top
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (f) of this section, each operator
of an aircraft shall display marks on the aircraft meeting the size
requirements of this section.
(b) Height. Except as provided in paragraph (h) of this part, the
nationality and registration marks must be of equal height and on-
(1) Fixed-wing aircraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that:
(i) An aircraft displaying marks at least 2 inches high before November
1, 1981 and an aircraft manufactured after November 2, 1981, but before
January 1, 1983, may display those marks until the aircraft is repainted
or the marks are repainted, re stored, or changed;
(ii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on a glider;
(iii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on an aircraft for
which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate under =A721.191 (d),
=A721.191 (g), or =A721.191 (i) of this chapter to operate as an exhibition
aircraft, an amateur-built aircraft, or a light-sport aircraft when the
maximum cruising speed of the aircraft does not exceed 180 knots CAS; and
(iv) Marks may be displayed on an exhibition, antique, or other aircraft
in accordance with =A745.22.
(2) Airships, spherical balloons, nonspherical balloons, powered
parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft must be at least 3 inches
high; and
(3) Rotorcraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that rotorcraft
displaying before April 18, 1983, marks required by =A745.29(b)(3) in
effect on April 17, 1983, and rotorcraft manufactured on or after April
18, 1983, but befo re December 31, 1983, may display those marks until
the aircraft is repainted or the marks are repainted, restored, or changed.
(c) Width. Characters must be two-thirds as wide as they are high,
except the number "1", which must be one-sixth as wide as it is high,
and the letters "M" and "W" which may be as wide as they are high.
(d) Thickness. Characters must be formed by solid lines one-sixth as
thick as the character is high.
(e) Spacing. The space between each character may not be less than
one-fourth of the character width.
(f) If either one of the surfaces authorized for displaying required
marks under =A745.25 is large enough for display of marks meeting the size
requirements of this section and the other is not, full-size marks shall
be placed on the larger surface. If neither surface is large enough for
full-size marks, marks as large as practicable shall be displayed on the
larger of the two surfaces. I f any surface authorized to be marked by
=A745.27 is not large enough for full-size marks, marks as large as
practicable shall be placed on the largest of the authorized surfaces.
(g) Uniformity. The marks required by this part for fixed-wing aircraft
must have the same height, width, thickness, and spacing on both sides
of the aircraft.
(h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft penetrating an
ADIZ or DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft temporary or permanent
nationality and registration marks at least 12 inches high.
[Doc. No. 2047, 29 FR 3223, Mar. 11, 1964, as amended by Amdt. 45-2, 31
FR 9863, July 21, 1966; Amdt. 45-9, 42 FR 41102, Aug. 15, 1977; Amdt.
45-13, 46 FR 48604, Oct. 1, 1981; Amdt. 45-15, 48 FR 11392, Mar. 17,
1983; Amdt. 45-17, 52 FR 34102, Sept. 9, 1987; 52 FR 36566, Sept. 30,
1987; Amdt. 45-24, 69 FR 44863, July 27,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
Tim can you tell me which one you are using because I will steal a
different one. Very nice work Tim. I am impressed. I thought if it
didn't involve the inner workings computers or computer hardware that
you were useless. Or was that very smart wife of yours that really come
up with these. Whomever it was great work. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Paint
While we're on the subject of paint....
Last night I just stayed up working designs with my wife. I'm hoping to
finalize my paint decision so that I have time to get an embroidery
pattern created, and have a couple of shirts embroidered before OSH...
I find that trying to design and think up paint schemes is agonizing.
Here are some of my 2nd run of ideas.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/paint/index.html
Any comments would be welcomed, and suggestions as to a) alternative
ideas, or b) how easily paintable some of these would be, would be
very appreciated. Feel free to download any of them if you think
you'd like them yourself, and I also have the line drawings there
for you to use when designing your own schemes. I created the
3D view from a photo of the Van's N410RV, and I used the CAD drawings
for the side view.
Once I get the side view picked out and finalized, I will be preparing
the line drawings for the top and front view as well, and then working
it into the 3D view. I found that I couldn't design very well in 3D
because you couldn't tell how the paint would look around the N-Number.
Tim
PS: I got myself a real nice high-end paint gun:
SataJet RP Digital II. It's known as being a spectacular gun, which
I'll need, as I'm sure I'm not a spectacular painter. ;) For those
looking for sprayguns, check out:
http://www.spraygunindustry.com/
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
Randy DeBauw wrote:
>
> I think it is even better looking then the photo shows. The white
> doesn't look good in the photo and in person I bet it look fabulous.
> I do like the green. I am contemplating doing a Cirrus style stripes.
> Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
> Dawson-Townsend
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 6:59 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Paint
>
> -->
>
>
> I think Ed McGinty is winnging the paint contest so far . . .
>
> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?postid=9165
>
> TDT
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
> Hasbrouck
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 9:54 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel tank countersink ?
>
>
> -->
>
> Rick & Dan,
> Thanks for the great advice. Warming up the microstop, getting
> ready to go......john
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
I thought the rule was 200 knots or more.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: RV10-List: N-Number Sizing
I noticed the Ed McGinty paint job today....very nice indeed. I
personally like the idea of a lighter canopy but his looks
fantastic. Glossy too.
The thing that stands out is the small N-numbers though. I realize
that A) they may be temporary, and B) some people prefer smaller
numbers, and C) that you may be able to get by with small
N-numbers and not get in trouble, but....here's what I ran
across today...
I had my wife search the FAR's to verify the legal requirements.
They are posted below.
My comments though, I'll limit to a couple of specific lines.
#1: "...or a light-sport aircraft when the maximum cruising speed
of the aircraft does not exceed 180 knots CAS..."
On N410RV, the top speed of that plane is listes as 208mph,
which is 181 kts. I know, the "cruising" speed won't be
the same as "top speed", but with the new blended airfoil
prop being a knot or two faster, your top speed definitely
will.
#2: (This one is the biggie)
section (h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft
penetrating an ADIZ or DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft
temporary or permanent nationality and registration marks at
least 12 inches high.
Here I think is the largest reason as to why you should
probably forego small N-numbers and just go 12". Remember
that the area around Washington DC is currently an ADIZ,
and there has been a push to make other areas similarly
restrictive. This law is very un-ambiguous and would
absolutely mean that you are not welcome to fly a small
N-numbered plane in those areas. For my plane, I would
surely not want add the possible future restriction of my
flyable airspace just to avoid having to put 12" letters
on my plane.
Again, this isn't pointed at Ed, or anyone else for that
matter. Just something I walked into today that gave
me a 100% reason to go 12" lettering.
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
45.29 Size of marks.
top
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (f) of this section, each operator
of an aircraft shall display marks on the aircraft meeting the size
requirements of this section.
(b) Height. Except as provided in paragraph (h) of this part, the
nationality and registration marks must be of equal height and on
(1) Fixed-wing aircraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that:
(i) An aircraft displaying marks at least 2 inches high before November
1, 1981 and an aircraft manufactured after November 2, 1981, but before
January 1, 1983, may display those marks until the aircraft is repainted
or the marks are repainted, restored, or changed;
(ii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on a glider;
(iii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on an aircraft for
which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate under 21.191 (d),
21.191 (g), or 21.191 (i) of this chapter to operate as an exhibition
aircraft, an amateur-built aircraft, or a light-sport aircraft when the
maximum cruising speed of the aircraft does not exceed 180 knots CAS; and
(iv) Marks may be displayed on an exhibition, antique, or other aircraft
in accordance with 45.22.
(2) Airships, spherical balloons, nonspherical balloons, powered
parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft must be at least 3 inches
high; and
(3) Rotorcraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that rotorcraft
displaying before April 18, 1983, marks required by 45.29(b)(3) in
effect on April 17, 1983, and rotorcraft manufactured on or after April
18, 1983, but before December 31, 1983, may display those marks until
the aircraft is repainted or the marks are repainted, restored, or changed.
(c) Width. Characters must be two-thirds as wide as they are high,
except the number 1, which must be one-sixth as wide as it is high,
and the letters M and W which may be as wide as they are high.
(d) Thickness. Characters must be formed by solid lines one-sixth as
thick as the character is high.
(e) Spacing. The space between each character may not be less than
one-fourth of the character width.
(f) If either one of the surfaces authorized for displaying required
marks under 45.25 is large enough for display of marks meeting the size
requirements of this section and the other is not, full-size marks shall
be placed on the larger surface. If neither surface is large enough for
full-size marks, marks as large as practicable shall be displayed on the
larger of the two surfaces. If any surface authorized to be marked by
45.27 is not large enough for full-size marks, marks as large as
practicable shall be placed on the largest of the authorized surfaces.
(g) Uniformity. The marks required by this part for fixed-wing aircraft
must have the same height, width, thickness, and spacing on both sides
of the aircraft.
(h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft penetrating an
ADIZ or DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft temporary or permanent
nationality and registration marks at least 12 inches high.
[Doc. No. 2047, 29 FR 3223, Mar. 11, 1964, as amended by Amdt. 452, 31
FR 9863, July 21, 1966; Amdt. 459, 42 FR 41102, Aug. 15, 1977; Amdt.
4513, 46 FR 48604, Oct. 1, 1981; Amdt. 4515, 48 FR 11392, Mar. 17,
1983; Amdt. 4517, 52 FR 34102, Sept. 9, 1987; 52 FR 36566, Sept. 30,
1987; Amdt. 4524, 69 FR 44863, July 27, 2004]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
>>
>Again, this isn't pointed at Ed, or anyone else for that
>matter. Just something I walked into today that gave
>me a 100% reason to go 12" lettering.
>Tim
>--
>Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
>Current project: Fuselage
>
Fair enough. I chose the small lettering on the -8 because 1. I think they
look fugly and foul up a nice paint scheme and 2. If for any reason I need
temporary 12" letters for regs or even permanently, they can be cut from
sign vinyl that matches just about any paint color and just stick 'em on.
Van's loves the vinyl graphics and they look terrific on the demonstrators.
I also like the reduced "radar signature" of the smaller letters in case
some sniveling whiner doesn't like me performing whifferdils and whoop dee
doos anywhere within earshot of his bird sanctuary or rock garden. Tis
mighty hard to pick out the little letters on a little airplane moving at
180 mph no matter how good you are with a set of binos.
If they ADIZ the whole country then we're just screwed anyway and it's all
over for GA as we know it. A few extra ADIZ's over the nuke plants,
armories or Clinton's concubine enclaves won't ruin my day.
Just my view. Don't take with other medications and don't drive or operate
heavy machinery after reading.
So there. :)
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net> |
In the standard "cheap" set of body dent tools and hammers from Harbor
Freight ($20) there is a body dolly that fits in the palm of your hand and
has a nice rolled edge where your fingers would curl that should work behind
the dent. IF the dolly is flush behind the dent, you can pound it with a
nylon or plastic hammer. The heavy mass of the dolly lets you take a pretty
good wack at it without adding to the damage. It should work a lot better
than a wooden block if it will fit. The secret to getting it out is having
a lot of mass behind the dent when you wack it. I would wack lightly and
"work" it out as opposed to taking it out with one blow.
Bill S
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Dent in HS skin
Hi Bill,
Welcome to the club ;-)
This happened to me on about the sixth rivet I set on the VS. I have a few
more birthmarks on various skins (mostly due to trying to buck/shoot solo,
and a really crap extended back rivet set that should be outlawed . . . ).
If the ding does not include the rib behind the skin, you can fashion a
dolly from hardwood, place it on the inside of the skin and use a plastic
faced mallet to tap the dent back in. I have not had much success reducing
these if the ding presses the rib into the skin. I am just not game enough
to whack the skin as hard as it appears necessary to push both skin and rib
back into shape.
I too would be very interested in any tricks that other listers may have for
these 'birthmarks'.
cheers,
Ron
#187 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill and Tami
Britton
Subject: RV10-List: Dent in HS skin
While riveting the HS nose ribs in tonight we had an accident with the
bucking bar and accidentally put a dent in the leading edge of the HS skin.
I'll try to post a picture. If that doesn't happen contact me if you can
offer any ideas and I'll e-mail you the picture. Meanwhile, any thoughts or
suggestions or do I just let the paint shop work this one out???
TIA
Bill Britton
Riveting HS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net> |
If very worried, use a really small bit and center punch the small dimple in
the middle of the rivet. Then drill completely through the rivet. Using a
very small bit makes it very easy to be sure you are dead center and it also
weakens the rivet some. Then follow Dan's advice using the very small hole
as a guide.. It's easy, quick, and works well and does not enlarge the hole
enough to worry about.
Bill S
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Dent in HS skin
> over. Once the head of the rivet is broken off you can center punch the
> rest of the rivet out of the hold. This technique takes practice but you
Punching the rivet through once the head is drilled off is often not the
best solution. If the flange (i.e. rib, bulkhead, etc.) on the other side
is "flimsy" at all, it will bow out away from the skin...which is something
you can't really solve easily.
If, after breaking the head off, you give it a light tap with the punch and
it doesn't come out, it's probably best to use the drill. You can use a
3/32" or 1/8" bit. Just drill it straight and you won't have any problems.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N-Number Sizing |
180 KCAS is the cutoff if I recall correctly. Your RV-10 most likely won't
exceed 180 knots in cruise anyway.
You don't need 12" numbers to fly to Canada or back into the U.S. from
Canada. 3" numbers will suffice. Canada is just about the easiest border
crossing you'll ever do. Just need to carry that letter for homebuilts and
you're good.
And check the AIM/FAR. You need 12" numbers whenever crossing the ADIZ (and
maybe only inbound...check this). When you come back into the U.S. from
Mexico or the Caribbean, you will need 12" numbers.
Some other countries do require 12" numbers. Check local regulations.
As far as the U.S. is concerned you can use temporary numbers, i.e. made
with black electrical tape. Last time I used shoe dye.
Using 3" numbers is one of the "benefits" of having an amateur built plane.
My feeling is...anything that distinctly says "that's a homebuilt" is
something I want to take advantage of. "EXPERIMENTAL...and proud!" Just my
perspective on it.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N-Number Sizing
>
> I thought the rule was 200 knots or more.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse(at)itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org
> W: 352-465-4545
> C: 352-427-0285
> F: 815-377-3694
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 4:09 PM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: N-Number Sizing
>
>
> I noticed the Ed McGinty paint job today....very nice indeed. I
> personally like the idea of a lighter canopy but his looks
> fantastic. Glossy too.
>
> The thing that stands out is the small N-numbers though. I realize
> that A) they may be temporary, and B) some people prefer smaller
> numbers, and C) that you may be able to get by with small
> N-numbers and not get in trouble, but....here's what I ran
> across today...
>
> I had my wife search the FAR's to verify the legal requirements.
> They are posted below.
>
> My comments though, I'll limit to a couple of specific lines.
>
> #1: "...or a light-sport aircraft when the maximum cruising speed
> of the aircraft does not exceed 180 knots CAS..."
>
> On N410RV, the top speed of that plane is listes as 208mph,
> which is 181 kts. I know, the "cruising" speed won't be
> the same as "top speed", but with the new blended airfoil
> prop being a knot or two faster, your top speed definitely
> will.
>
> #2: (This one is the biggie)
> section (h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft
> penetrating an ADIZ or DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft
> temporary or permanent nationality and registration marks at
> least 12 inches high.
>
> Here I think is the largest reason as to why you should
> probably forego small N-numbers and just go 12". Remember
> that the area around Washington DC is currently an ADIZ,
> and there has been a push to make other areas similarly
> restrictive. This law is very un-ambiguous and would
> absolutely mean that you are not welcome to fly a small
> N-numbered plane in those areas. For my plane, I would
> surely not want add the possible future restriction of my
> flyable airspace just to avoid having to put 12" letters
> on my plane.
>
> Again, this isn't pointed at Ed, or anyone else for that
> matter. Just something I walked into today that gave
> me a 100% reason to go 12" lettering.
> Tim
> --
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
>
> 45.29 Size of marks.
> top
>
> (a) Except as provided in paragraph (f) of this section, each operator
> of an aircraft shall display marks on the aircraft meeting the size
> requirements of this section.
>
> (b) Height. Except as provided in paragraph (h) of this part, the
> nationality and registration marks must be of equal height and on-
>
> (1) Fixed-wing aircraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that:
>
> (i) An aircraft displaying marks at least 2 inches high before November
> 1, 1981 and an aircraft manufactured after November 2, 1981, but before
> January 1, 1983, may display those marks until the aircraft is repainted
> or the marks are repainted, restored, or changed;
>
> (ii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on a glider;
>
> (iii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on an aircraft for
> which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate under 21.191 (d),
> 21.191 (g), or 21.191 (i) of this chapter to operate as an exhibition
> aircraft, an amateur-built aircraft, or a light-sport aircraft when the
> maximum cruising speed of the aircraft does not exceed 180 knots CAS; and
>
> (iv) Marks may be displayed on an exhibition, antique, or other aircraft
> in accordance with 45.22.
>
> (2) Airships, spherical balloons, nonspherical balloons, powered
> parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft must be at least 3 inches
> high; and
>
> (3) Rotorcraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that rotorcraft
> displaying before April 18, 1983, marks required by 45.29(b)(3) in
> effect on April 17, 1983, and rotorcraft manufactured on or after April
> 18, 1983, but before December 31, 1983, may display those marks until
> the aircraft is repainted or the marks are repainted, restored, or
changed.
>
> (c) Width. Characters must be two-thirds as wide as they are high,
> except the number "1", which must be one-sixth as wide as it is high,
> and the letters "M" and "W" which may be as wide as they are high.
>
> (d) Thickness. Characters must be formed by solid lines one-sixth as
> thick as the character is high.
>
> (e) Spacing. The space between each character may not be less than
> one-fourth of the character width.
>
> (f) If either one of the surfaces authorized for displaying required
> marks under 45.25 is large enough for display of marks meeting the size
> requirements of this section and the other is not, full-size marks shall
> be placed on the larger surface. If neither surface is large enough for
> full-size marks, marks as large as practicable shall be displayed on the
> larger of the two surfaces. If any surface authorized to be marked by
> 45.27 is not large enough for full-size marks, marks as large as
> practicable shall be placed on the largest of the authorized surfaces.
>
> (g) Uniformity. The marks required by this part for fixed-wing aircraft
> must have the same height, width, thickness, and spacing on both sides
> of the aircraft.
>
> (h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft penetrating an
> ADIZ or DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft temporary or permanent
> nationality and registration marks at least 12 inches high.
>
> [Doc. No. 2047, 29 FR 3223, Mar. 11, 1964, as amended by Amdt. 45-2, 31
> FR 9863, July 21, 1966; Amdt. 45-9, 42 FR 41102, Aug. 15, 1977; Amdt.
> 45-13, 46 FR 48604, Oct. 1, 1981; Amdt. 45-15, 48 FR 11392, Mar. 17,
> 1983; Amdt. 45-17, 52 FR 34102, Sept. 9, 1987; 52 FR 36566, Sept. 30,
> 1987; Amdt. 45-24, 69 FR 44863, July 27, 2004]
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Mcmahon" <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
If you are going to purchase a gun,please look into
the Sata 2000 HVLP unit,it is the best !!!!
I just finished painting my RV6,and I can tell you this much,the gun makes all
the difference that you will not
BELIEVE..I have 4 guns,HVLP.. I did the PPG base coat
clear coat Corvette Red and that gun is the HEET
John McMahon (RV6 ready to fly 0360 c/s)
----- Original Message -----
From: William Curtis
To: RV10-List(at)matronics.com ; tim(at)MyRV10.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 3:38 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RE: Paint
Tim,
I considered getting a high end paint gun also, but decided instead to get a
good paint system. I'm guessing you paid a couple of hundered dollars for that
gun, I figure for $900-1100 I can get a complete HVLP system with turbine, respirator,
AND gun. I'm looking at the Axis Citation 4 stage turbine system. No
constant running of my compressor to keep up with the air volume requirements
and no moisture filters to deal with. Just my $0.02.
available here:
William Curtis
http://members.core.com/~wcurtis/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
The wheel pants are going to reduce a lot of FOD damage to the leading
edge of the Horizontal. Otherwise the top photo with the white basecoat
would be my first choice. Water droplet damage in actual IFR has taken
a toll on many of the plastic L.E.s. The lower cowl represents a slight
modification from factory casting though. Just one more mod and it
could look like a Harmon Rocket 10. Todd's shadow detail work is great.
A strong silver like a Mercedes would do even more than the Navy gray
that Todd has painted the illustration with.
We are all waiting to hear of the First Flight. I want to know the
performance numbers with the MT, cause Jim was never too clear on a back
to back acid test.
John - KUAO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Paint
I have a friend that has also used Schemedesigners and was very happy.
In fact they did the paint job and found a shop that will do all the
prep work for him (ie. Fill and sand the fiberglass, ect..) I am trying
to find a local place in Salt Lake where I can have mine painted
sometime this summer and then just finish the inside and panel this
fall.
Here are some designs my brother has done for me. He uses Photoshop to
do these.
I'm still not completely bought off on this one but I really like it so
far.
http://www.freedomflyers.com/Paint%20and%20Design.htm
Also, I am going to fill all my rivets. I have already started on the
tail. It takes a lot of time and patience but man are the surfaces nice
and smooth. I figure I will be filling and sanding for 150+ hours but
it will be worth it. The weight will be very very minimal. I would
guess 10 lbs at the most. I am using a product called body icing on the
rivets and anywhere that needs more than a 1/16" I am using some
aluminum filler or just epoxy and fiberglass. Joe Waltz built an RV-8
in Houston and filled his rivets and it looks awesome. He received an
outstanding aircraft award this year at Sun and Fun. Well, back to
sanding and filling and filling and sanding. The way I see it, I have
more time than money.
Scott Schmidt
Cell: 801-319-3094
sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Randy has a computer vinyl cutter. All we need now are VAN's Autocad
coordinates for him. Just think a whole new world with glass bead
vinyl, gold leaf or spectrum tape accent striping.
Randy, give us a price. I've got the 2005 Computer Graphics Pricing
Guide and product selection book, if your game. We can direct RV-10
builders to their local supplier and set you up in a moonlight business
now that you are getting rusty bucking rivets and flying off hours on
the IO-540.
John - KUAO
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Paint
Another option is what the OEMs do: paint the base coat and get some
high-quality vinyl graphics to do the fancy stripes . . .
TDT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Water spray, squeegee, grease pencil, transfer tape, a keen eye and
patience.
John
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
(US SSA)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Paint
Anybody know a source for the vinyl graphics? Painting the plane a
single color seems like it should be within my abilities, but much
beyond that... Also, how difficult is it to apply the graphics?
Bob #40105
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
I think I should do my plane first before offering my services. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Paint
Randy has a computer vinyl cutter. All we need now are VAN's Autocad
coordinates for him. Just think a whole new world with glass bead
vinyl, gold leaf or spectrum tape accent striping.
Randy, give us a price. I've got the 2005 Computer Graphics Pricing
Guide and product selection book, if your game. We can direct RV-10
builders to their local supplier and set you up in a moonlight business
now that you are getting rusty bucking rivets and flying off hours on
the IO-540.
John - KUAO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Paint
Another option is what the OEMs do: paint the base coat and get some
high-quality vinyl graphics to do the fancy stripes . . .
TDT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
It might be heavy, but an interesting application of vinyl graphics is when they
encase an entire bus or trolley car in one giant vinyl graphic that wraps around
it.
Unfortunately, in those cases, it's usually an advertisement, but think of the
possibilities . . .
America West used to have giant "nature scene" images on their tails. I wonder
if those were printed vinyl graphics. I did notice an AC-130 gunship at an airshow
had a "Spectre" nose art that was a big decal . . .
I think I'll put a huge picture of Angelina Jolie on my RV-10 . . .
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Paint
I think I should do my plane first before offering my services. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Paint
Randy has a computer vinyl cutter. All we need now are VAN's Autocad
coordinates for him. Just think a whole new world with glass bead
vinyl, gold leaf or spectrum tape accent striping.
Randy, give us a price. I've got the 2005 Computer Graphics Pricing
Guide and product selection book, if your game. We can direct RV-10
builders to their local supplier and set you up in a moonlight business
now that you are getting rusty bucking rivets and flying off hours on
the IO-540.
John - KUAO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Paint
Another option is what the OEMs do: paint the base coat and get some
high-quality vinyl graphics to do the fancy stripes . . .
TDT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neal George" <neal(at)appaero.com> |
Now where's the adventure in that... ;/
neal
I think I should do my plane first before offering my services. Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
;
| From: | Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> |
I too had a similar experience, but mine was a bucking bar "outsie". Van's said
to use a ball-pen hammer to create a dent and then fill with micro balloons.
Seems reasonable, but I decided to wait until paint prep to mess with it.
Jay
(finally riveting wing bottom skins)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill and Tami
Britton
Subject: RV10-List: Dent in HS skin
While riveting the HS nose ribs in tonight we had an accident with the
bucking bar and accidentally put a dent in the leading edge of the HS skin.
I'll try to post a picture. If that doesn't happen contact me if you can
offer any ideas and I'll e-mail you the picture. Meanwhile, any thoughts or
suggestions or do I just let the paint shop work this one out???
TIA
Bill Britton
Riveting HS
__________________________________
http://discover.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net> |
Randy Randy Randy........
People are offering to let you practice on their planes so you can
get your skills down and do yours perfect! :)
-Jim 40384, starting H.S. front spar deburring.....
Randy DeBauw wrote:
>
>I think I should do my plane first before offering my services. Randy
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
>Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 10:44 PM
>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Paint
>
>
>Randy has a computer vinyl cutter. All we need now are VAN's Autocad
>coordinates for him. Just think a whole new world with glass bead
>vinyl, gold leaf or spectrum tape accent striping.
>
>Randy, give us a price. I've got the 2005 Computer Graphics Pricing
>Guide and product selection book, if your game. We can direct RV-10
>builders to their local supplier and set you up in a moonlight business
>now that you are getting rusty bucking rivets and flying off hours on
>the IO-540.
>
>John - KUAO
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
>Dawson-Townsend
>Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 2:47 PM
>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Paint
>
>
>
>
>Another option is what the OEMs do: paint the base coat and get some
>high-quality vinyl graphics to do the fancy stripes . . .
>
>TDT
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
Ahh. You are right. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Hein
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Paint
Randy Randy Randy........
People are offering to let you practice on their planes so you can
get your skills down and do yours perfect! :)
-Jim 40384, starting H.S. front spar deburring.....
Randy DeBauw wrote:
>
>I think I should do my plane first before offering my services. Randy
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
>Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 10:44 PM
>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Paint
>
>
>Randy has a computer vinyl cutter. All we need now are VAN's Autocad
>coordinates for him. Just think a whole new world with glass bead
>vinyl, gold leaf or spectrum tape accent striping.
>
>Randy, give us a price. I've got the 2005 Computer Graphics Pricing
>Guide and product selection book, if your game. We can direct RV-10
>builders to their local supplier and set you up in a moonlight business
>now that you are getting rusty bucking rivets and flying off hours on
>the IO-540.
>
>John - KUAO
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
>Dawson-Townsend
>Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 2:47 PM
>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Paint
>
>
>
>
>Another option is what the OEMs do: paint the base coat and get some
>high-quality vinyl graphics to do the fancy stripes . . .
>
>TDT
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Specketer" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: PaintPaint |
I have had luck in the past by going to a top notch painter, who I
cannot afford, and paying him to come over and supervise my work. He
would outline step one and then I would call him when I was finished. He
would inspect and make me rework the flaws and outline step 2 etc. I
got an OSH Lindy award paint job at a fraction of his normal charge. We
both felt that it was a good deal as he had more work than he could do
anyhow. Any mistakes in prep were caught before the next task was done.
Something to consider.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com> |
| Subject: | -10 rear seat cushions |
FYI. Vans now has rear seat cushion sets. Unapholstered for $180.00 for two
seats. Not a bad price when you consider Oregon Aero's prices.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: -10 rear seat cushions |
Whats the difference, besides $398?
John Hasbrouck wrote:
>
> FYI. Vans now has rear seat cushion sets. Unapholstered for $180.00
> for two seats. Not a bad price when you consider Oregon Aero's prices.
>
> On Jun 7, 2005, at 3:39 PM, Mark Chamberlain wrote:
>
> I forgot who asked!! I purchased my rear seat cores from Oregon
> Aero for $578. That's both seats uncovered. I had all four of my
> seats covered with fabric by a local auto/boat shop for $700 and
> they look pretty good. Mark (40016)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BBreckenridge(at)att.net |
For those of you that placed your wing kit orders just before the price jump (April
1st??) like I did, I got the call today that it's ON TIME and ready for retrieval
from the mines at Van's. My delivery date was June 13th according to
the letter I received last month (or so).
For those of you that placed your wing kit orders just before the price jump (April
1st??) like I did, I got the call today that it's ON TIME and ready for retrieval
from the mines at Van's. My delivery date was June 13th according to
the letter I received last month (or so).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Combs" <jimc(at)mail.infra-read.com> |
While looking at the plans for the brake pedals, I notice they called for AN470
AD4-5 rivets on the plates where the feet are. Not wanting to have the bumps
I countersunk and used AN426-AD4-5 rivets instead. Nice and flat.
Wanting a non skid surface, I went to the local "Home Depot" ( Aviation Department
of course!) and purchased a roll of exterior outdoor tread in a 4" wide 180"
(101 mm x 4.57M) roll. It is made by 3M and is black (Just the color I was
looking for!). SKU-5113179079 Stuff almost looks like a course grade of sandpaper.
I may also put some of this on the floor area just below the seats to prevent slipping
during boarding.
Jim Combs
#40192
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Buhwana <buhwana(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV10-List Digest: 45 Msgs - 06/08/05 |
0.03 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_HTML BODY: HTML contains text after HTML close tag
0.06 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_BODY BODY: HTML contains text after BODY close tag
Not sure where you live but if you ever plan on flying into Mexico I
*think* they require the larger numbers.
Tom
lurker and RV-10 wantabe
On Jun 9, 2005, at 1:58 AM, RV10-List Digest Server wrote:
> The thing that stands out is the small N-numbers though. I realize
> that A) they may be temporary, and B) some people prefer smaller
> numbers, and C) that you may be able to get by with small
> N-numbers and not get in trouble, but....here's what I ran
> across today...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
| Subject: | Vettermann Exhaust |
We are working on the exhaust right now. Apparently it is not the same
system that Randy has and it is definitely not the same as is in the plans.
This makes it very difficult to install when you don't know exactly how to
route the exhaust and support it. Does anybody have their installed that
could help by sending some pictures?
Van's seemed to think that they weren't going to modify their plans for the
new exhaust. Does anybody know if they have changed their minds?
Thanks.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net> |
Tim,
You might wanna put a sky-blue background on some of your pics to help us
"see" how the plane'll look in the air. After all, isn't that the acid
test: an airborne picture of your artistic design against the blue azure of
altitude...?
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Paint
While we're on the subject of paint....
Last night I just stayed up working designs with my wife. I'm hoping
to finalize my paint decision so that I have time to get an embroidery
pattern created, and have a couple of shirts embroidered before OSH...
I find that trying to design and think up paint schemes is agonizing.
Here are some of my 2nd run of ideas.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/paint/index.html
Any comments would be welcomed, and suggestions as to a) alternative
ideas, or b) how easily paintable some of these would be, would be
very appreciated. Feel free to download any of them if you think
you'd like them yourself, and I also have the line drawings there
for you to use when designing your own schemes. I created the
3D view from a photo of the Van's N410RV, and I used the CAD
drawings for the side view.
Once I get the side view picked out and finalized, I will be preparing
the line drawings for the top and front view as well, and then working
it into the 3D view. I found that I couldn't design very well in
3D because you couldn't tell how the paint would look around the
N-Number.
Tim
PS: I got myself a real nice high-end paint gun:
SataJet RP Digital II. It's known as being a spectacular gun, which
I'll need, as I'm sure I'm not a spectacular painter. ;)
For those looking for sprayguns, check out:
http://www.spraygunindustry.com/
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
Randy DeBauw wrote:
>
> I think it is even better looking then the photo shows. The white
> doesn't look good in the photo and in person I bet it look fabulous. I
> do like the green. I am contemplating doing a Cirrus style stripes.
> Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
> Dawson-Townsend
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 6:59 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Paint
>
> -->
>
>
> I think Ed McGinty is winnging the paint contest so far . . .
>
> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?postid=9165
>
> TDT
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Hasbrouck
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 9:54 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel tank countersink ?
>
>
> -->
>
> Rick & Dan,
> Thanks for the great advice. Warming up the microstop, getting
> ready to go......john
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vettermann Exhaust |
Doug Peterson installed Vetterman, here's a link to the pages on his web site
http://members.cox.net/rvator/id53.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: Jesse Saint
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 7:20 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Vettermann Exhaust
We are working on the exhaust right now. Apparently it is not the same system
that Randy has and it is definitely not the same as is in the plans. This makes
it very difficult to install when you don't know exactly how to route the
exhaust and support it. Does anybody have their installed that could help by
sending some pictures?
Van's seemed to think that they weren't going to modify their plans for the new
exhaust. Does anybody know if they have changed their minds?
Thanks.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hamilton Cartwright" <hamc101(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Aileron Trim Manual or Elect. |
What is everyone doing about aileron trim ? I have not seen any discussion on Trimming
ailerons .
Hamilton
40238
Fuse and eng.rebuild
hamc101(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aileron Trim Manual or Elect. |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
There was something in a recent RVator about Van's coming out with
electric aileron trim but it hasn't shown up on their web site yet.
Bob #40105
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hamilton
Cartwright
Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Trim Manual or Elect.
What is everyone doing about aileron trim ? I have not seen any
discussion on Trimming ailerons .
Hamilton
40238
Fuse and eng.rebuild
hamc101(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Aileron Trim Manual or Elect. |
When I took my demo flight a couple of weeks ago I asked that question.
There response was that it was a good idea, and I noted that it was used
during the flight.
Rene'
N423CF
40322
Half way through tanks...the not so messy half
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hamilton
Cartwright
Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Trim Manual or Elect.
What is everyone doing about aileron trim ? I have not seen any discussion
on Trimming ailerons .
Hamilton
40238
Fuse and eng.rebuild
hamc101(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com> |
| Subject: | Aileron Trim Manual or Elect. |
It was used during the flight? Does that mean the demo plane has aileron
trim? It just isn't for sale through Van's? As usual I'm now confused.
John Jessen
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aileron Trim Manual or Elect.
When I took my demo flight a couple of weeks ago I asked that question.
There response was that it was a good idea, and I noted that it was used
during the flight.
Rene'
N423CF
40322
Half way through tanks...the not so messy half
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hamilton
Cartwright
Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Trim Manual or Elect.
What is everyone doing about aileron trim ? I have not seen any discussion
on Trimming ailerons .
Hamilton
40238
Fuse and eng.rebuild
hamc101(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Aileron Trim Manual or Elect. |
I try to keep everyone confused. Yes, I think it had aileron trim and the
pilot used it. I ordered the 9 version, but I am not sure that will really
work.
Rene'
N423CF
40322
Half way through tanks...the not so messy half
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aileron Trim Manual or Elect.
It was used during the flight? Does that mean the demo plane has aileron
trim? It just isn't for sale through Van's? As usual I'm now confused.
John Jessen
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aileron Trim Manual or Elect.
When I took my demo flight a couple of weeks ago I asked that question.
There response was that it was a good idea, and I noted that it was used
during the flight.
Rene'
N423CF
40322
Half way through tanks...the not so messy half
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hamilton
Cartwright
Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Trim Manual or Elect.
What is everyone doing about aileron trim ? I have not seen any discussion
on Trimming ailerons .
Hamilton
40238
Fuse and eng.rebuild
hamc101(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Static System Connections] |
"rocket-list" ,
"rv10-list"
The ports look like the ones we installed. The thing I question is the 5
tee's and the 5 bolt/nut combo's. It looks like the tee has a tab or "ear"
that I would assume is for mounting. This is better than what we used to
attach to the ribs. The 90 degree elbows was the one thing I liked about our
methods and the kit has them. If I had to do again (and I will) I'd buy the
kit. I'm going to save your post and add it to the RV lists. KABONG
Thanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry" <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Static System Connections]
> I was sorting through my RV emails and I re-read this on. I am about to
> order a static port system. I am considering the system from safe air
> here <http://www.safeair1.com/index.htm>. They are similar to the ACS
> ports, they are threaded for a hard elbow. I can purchase the two ports
> for $23.95 or an entire kit including fitting and tubing for $79.95. Any
> opinion on these ports. Also, the kit will make things simpler, do you
> think there is value in it?
>
> Larry Rosen
> Emp almost complet
> Waiting on QB wings.
> Long & detailed on an old subject. Worth the read if your working on the
> static system.
> We used the ACS part# 15160 static port (page# 337) and Nylo-seal
> fittings ACS part# 269-N 04X02 male elbow (page 110) and the 264-N 04
> union tee for the totally enclosed part of the static system on HRII
> N561FS. These ports have a raised center that fits thru a 1/4" hole in the
> side. It sticks thru far enough to still be raised off the surface after
> painting. Why did we spend the extra $38.00 bucks for these parts ?.
> First, the machined port looks like a machined part rather than the
> head of a "pop" rivet.
> Second, (and the most important) was it allows the use of the 90 degree
> elbow fitting that's takes ALL the stress off the port (pop
> rivet end) and the required bend in the tubing. We could have used
> the "regular" hose & tube fitting (page 111) but since we only open this
> area for annual "conditional inspections" we felt better about
> the mechanical joint/ no stress connections.
> Third, the tubing is not stretched over a barb which can cause the tube
> to split at some later date.
> Fourth, we were building Rocket and wanted it to look like a Rocket.
> Did we use "pop" rivets on the Rocket ?. Of course BUT not where
> is shows. 8*)
> If you have read any of my other posts you know that I believe in KISS
> (Keep It Simple Stupid) method BUT in my not so humble opinion, the use of
> the above fittings both here & in the rest of the Rocket make service
> and/or replacement Simple only because you can easily take the system
> apart and then put it back together. I wouldn't do that with the barb ends
> IF you can get them apart in the first place.
> This is only my opinion. Your circumstances/mileage may vary. No
> offence Jerry, we used lots of your suggestions while building N561FS. You
> taught this Old Dog some new tricks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
| Subject: | Aileron Trim Manual or Elect. |
We are planning on using the AeroTrim servo installed on the aileron since
we have already closed it up and can't put a servo inside. I have only seen
one flying on an RV-6 and the guy said he loved it.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hamilton
Cartwright
Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Trim Manual or Elect.
What is everyone doing about aileron trim ? I have not seen any discussion
on Trimming ailerons .
Hamilton
40238
Fuse and eng.rebuild
hamc101(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net> |
What wire stripper are builders using for their projects. I'd kind of
like to get a feel for options other than the Stripmaster top-o-the-line
model and see if there are other alternatives (other than getting good
with the old fashion method).
Anyone use models like such
<http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?number=WS39>?
I've read the articles on Bob Nuckolls' site....
-Sean #40303 ailerons
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)thayer.dartmouth.edu> |
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Not a bad idea.....better than putting my hanger as a background,
> right....hope it doesn't spend TOO much time in there. ;)
>
> Tim
If it does I may have to come take that poor,
neglected bird out of your hands. Think of it like
the "rescue" groups for abused dogs... ;-)
-Dj
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
I'm not familiar with that model wire stripper ..... or how it works!!!
A plain grab, slice and pull type of auto stripper should work fine.
For most wire that is. Some of the teflon coated wire is so slippery
that the automatic stripper misses the first part ... grab .... and
doesn't work. So,then you whip out your trusty single-edged razor blade
and neatly circumcise the wire. Take a rubber alligator boot and place
the small end over the insulation, grab and pull. Should come off easily.
Linn
Sean Stephens wrote:
>
> What wire stripper are builders using for their projects. I'd kind of
> like to get a feel for options other than the Stripmaster
> top-o-the-line model and see if there are other alternatives (other
> than getting good with the old fashion method).
>
> Anyone use models like such
> <http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?number=WS39>?
>
> I've read the articles on Bob Nuckolls' site....
>
> -Sean #40303 ailerons
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
Another RV-10 flew today. I guess that is number 4 (or 6 if you count
the factory birds).
Serial number 40194. Wow, what would that be 12 months build time?
Larry
Better start pounding some more rivets
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Anywhere MAP/WX |
I use a Fujitsu daylight readable tablet PC to display WxWorx data in my
RV-6A. The Fujitsu is attached to a bracket on the right side of the
instrument panel, so it is panel mounted (sort of) and tilted toward me.
I'll do something similar in my -10.
WxWorx data is awesome. Being able to see precip and lightning 100
miles ahead takes a lot of worry out of IFR.
Tim
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 740 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
Jesse Saint wrote:
> I have been thinking a lot about the possibilities of using software
> like Anywhere Map and their Anywhere WX options on a laptop or
> panel-mounted LCD screen to have good, high-detail moving map and
> weather in the cockpit. It looks like this can be done for about $3,000
> plus a monthly subscription to the XM Weather plan. Is anybody else
> planning on doing this? Does anybody else have experience with this or
> any other similar system? I would rather pay $3,000 and have the
> flexibility that this would offer than pay $5,000-6,000 for the upgrade
> for my Garmin 430. It would also allow me to take the system with me in
> other planes if there was room. Also, a 12 screen dedicated to map and
> weather would be very nice to look at, and it could play DVDs or could
> be used for catching up on the RV-10 list e-mails while the TruTrak is
> in control.
>
>
>
> Any thoughts, warnings, encouragement, etc is welcome!
>
>
>
> Does anybody know the serial number of the 3
rd -10 flying? This
> definitely seems like it is going to be the year of the -10.
>
>
>
> Jesse Saint
>
> I-TEC, Inc.
>
> jesse(at)itecusa.org
>
> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
>
> W: 352-465-4545
>
> C: 352-427-0285
>
> F: 815-377-3694
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Congrats to Leroy Williams of Manhattan Beach, CA and the team built
N231LD. That's six in the air and right on target for my projection of
12 flying RV-10s by OSH '05. Would still like to see the 500th kit sold
by then. 45 days and counting. #40194 is enlighteningly close to
#40191 (remember James McClow) and now in Texas with James Riley.
John - KUAO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Subject: RV10-List: Another 10 Flys
Another RV-10 flew today. I guess that is number 4 (or 6 if you count
the factory birds).
Serial number 40194. Wow, what would that be 12 months build time?
Larry
Better start pounding some more rivets
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com> |
How about some pics? John Jessen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Lewis
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Anywhere MAP/WX
I use a Fujitsu daylight readable tablet PC to display WxWorx data in my
RV-6A. The Fujitsu is attached to a bracket on the right side of the
instrument panel, so it is panel mounted (sort of) and tilted toward me.
I'll do something similar in my -10.
WxWorx data is awesome. Being able to see precip and lightning 100 miles
ahead takes a lot of worry out of IFR.
Tim
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 740 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
Jesse Saint wrote:
> I have been thinking a lot about the possibilities of using software
> like Anywhere Map and their Anywhere WX options on a laptop or
> panel-mounted LCD screen to have good, high-detail moving map and
> weather in the cockpit. It looks like this can be done for about
> $3,000 plus a monthly subscription to the XM Weather plan. Is anybody
> else planning on doing this? Does anybody else have experience with
> this or any other similar system? I would rather pay $3,000 and have
> the flexibility that this would offer than pay $5,000-6,000 for the
> upgrade for my Garmin 430. It would also allow me to take the system
> with me in other planes if there was room. Also, a 12" screen
> dedicated to map and weather would be very nice to look at, and it
> could play DVD's or could be used for catching up on the RV-10 list
> e-mails while the TruTrak is in control.
>
>
>
> Any thoughts, warnings, encouragement, etc is welcome!
>
>
>
> Does anybody know the serial number of the 3
rd -10 flying? This
> definitely seems like it is going to be the year of the -10.
>
>
>
> Jesse Saint
>
> I-TEC, Inc.
>
> jesse(at)itecusa.org
>
> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
>
> W: 352-465-4545
>
> C: 352-427-0285
>
> F: 815-377-3694
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
Tim:
What antenna/receiver are you using with WX-Worx? That oversized hockey-puck looking
thing?
TDT
40025
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Tim Lewis
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Anywhere MAP/WX
I use a Fujitsu daylight readable tablet PC to display WxWorx data in my
RV-6A. The Fujitsu is attached to a bracket on the right side of the
instrument panel, so it is panel mounted (sort of) and tilted toward me.
I'll do something similar in my -10.
WxWorx data is awesome. Being able to see precip and lightning 100
miles ahead takes a lot of worry out of IFR.
Tim
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 740 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
Jesse Saint wrote:
> I have been thinking a lot about the possibilities of using software
> like Anywhere Map and their Anywhere WX options on a laptop or
> panel-mounted LCD screen to have good, high-detail moving map and
> weather in the cockpit. It looks like this can be done for about $3,000
> plus a monthly subscription to the XM Weather plan. Is anybody else
> planning on doing this? Does anybody else have experience with this or
> any other similar system? I would rather pay $3,000 and have the
> flexibility that this would offer than pay $5,000-6,000 for the upgrade
> for my Garmin 430. It would also allow me to take the system with me in
> other planes if there was room. Also, a 12" screen dedicated to map and
> weather would be very nice to look at, and it could play DVD's or could
> be used for catching up on the RV-10 list e-mails while the TruTrak is
> in control.
>
>
> Any thoughts, warnings, encouragement, etc is welcome!
>
>
> Does anybody know the serial number of the 3
rd -10 flying? This
> definitely seems like it is going to be the year of the -10.
>
>
> Jesse Saint
>
> I-TEC, Inc.
>
> jesse(at)itecusa.org
>
> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
>
> W: 352-465-4545
>
> C: 352-427-0285
>
> F: 815-377-3694
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
I'm considering selling my RV-6A, located in Granby, Colorado. If you're
interested or know anyone who might be, please call 970 887-2194 (home) or
970 887-2207 (work).
Here's a link with some pictures and details:
http://www.buildersbooks.com/rv_6a_for_sale.htm
Andy Gold
Builder's Bookstore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Anywhere MAP/WX |
Pictures are at http://tabletpcbuzz.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11230 .
FYI, I have the very small (1" square) XM antenna. My original (1.3"
square) antenna had gain problem. WxWorx replaced it immediately.
tim
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 740 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
John Jessen wrote:
>
> How about some pics? John Jessen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Lewis
> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 7:22 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Anywhere MAP/WX
>
>
> I use a Fujitsu daylight readable tablet PC to display WxWorx data in my
> RV-6A. The Fujitsu is attached to a bracket on the right side of the
> instrument panel, so it is panel mounted (sort of) and tilted toward me.
> I'll do something similar in my -10.
>
> WxWorx data is awesome. Being able to see precip and lightning 100 miles
> ahead takes a lot of worry out of IFR.
>
> Tim
> --
> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
> RV-6A N47TD -- 740 hrs
> RV-10 #40059 under construction
>
> Jesse Saint wrote:
>
>>I have been thinking a lot about the possibilities of using software
>>like Anywhere Map and their Anywhere WX options on a laptop or
>>panel-mounted LCD screen to have good, high-detail moving map and
>>weather in the cockpit. It looks like this can be done for about
>>$3,000 plus a monthly subscription to the XM Weather plan. Is anybody
>>else planning on doing this? Does anybody else have experience with
>>this or any other similar system? I would rather pay $3,000 and have
>>the flexibility that this would offer than pay $5,000-6,000 for the
>>upgrade for my Garmin 430. It would also allow me to take the system
>>with me in other planes if there was room. Also, a 12" screen
>>dedicated to map and weather would be very nice to look at, and it
>>could play DVD's or could be used for catching up on the RV-10 list
>>e-mails while the TruTrak is in control.
>>
>>
>>
>>Any thoughts, warnings, encouragement, etc is welcome!
>>
>>
>>
>>Does anybody know the serial number of the 3
rd -10 flying? This
>>definitely seems like it is going to be the year of the -10.
>>
>>
>>
>>Jesse Saint
>>
>>I-TEC, Inc.
>>
>>jesse(at)itecusa.org
>>
>>www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
>>
>>W: 352-465-4545
>>
>>C: 352-427-0285
>>
>>F: 815-377-3694
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neal George" <neal(at)appaero.com> |
Sean -
I have the wire stripper from Cleveland that you mentioned.
It works very well.
Neal
>
Anyone use models like such
<http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?number=WS39>?
<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Ochs" <jochs(at)froody.org> |
Hi all,
It looks like I over tightened one of the bolts on the rear horizontal
stabilizer spar and the threads stripped off underneath the nut. There are
threads left on the end, but I can't undo the bolt. Does anyone have a
suggestion on how to get that bolt out and replaced? I don't think I can
drill it because it will just spin on the drill.
Secondly, on one of the nose ribs I cut the hole for the trim cable on the
wrong end of the rib (towards the LE instead of close to the spar. Can I
cut another hole in the rib to put it in the right place or should I just
order another one?
Thanks,
James
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net> |
Thanks, I've been leaning towards that one, but just wanted to make sure
it worked ok with Tefzel. I see on Dan C.'s Tool section of his site, he
has the same I think.
-Sean #40303 ailerons
Neal George wrote:
>
>Sean -
>I have the wire stripper from Cleveland that you mentioned.
>It works very well.
>
>Neal
>
>
>
>Anyone use models like such
><http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?number=WS39>?
><
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neal George" <neal(at)appaero.com> |
James -
Use a Dremel with a cut-off wheel to split the nut.
Neal
>
It looks like I over tightened one of the bolts on the rear horizontal
stabilizer spar and the threads stripped off underneath the nut.
James
<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
Here are a few pictures. Now it's time for exhaust and wiring.
N256H #40241
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
> Thanks, I've been leaning towards that one, but just wanted to make sure
> it worked ok with Tefzel. I see on Dan C.'s Tool section of his site, he
> has the same I think.
I do have the same one (the "automatic" stripper from Cleaveland) and I *DO
NOT* use it on my aircraft wires. In my experience, it leaves notches in
the insulation which in some cases fully penetrated the insulation.
The stripper I use is the Ideal T-Stripper 45-121. Totally manual. I
bought mine from Fry's if I remember correctly.
http://www.idealindustries.co.uk/index.cfm?pid=14&op=dsp&pk=13878&fk=342
The "automatic" stripper is in the tool bin for non-critical stuff (jeez,
what's non-critical on your plane? in other words, I never use mine). The
last thing I want to see are breaks in my insulation. Your mileage
definitely may vary. I may have tried this on 22AWG and tossed it. It may
acually work fine on larger gauge, or thicker insulation...or something.
Anyway, try it and see if you like it. You might, you might not.
I believe you definitely get what you pay for when it comes to wire
strippers. The expensive ones are expensive because they WORK. I'm too
cheap to splurge on the nice stuff. If I made wire harnesses for a living
that would be a different story...
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
<005101c56edf$dde4aa00$6400a8c0@inspinc.ad>
I have one from Cleavland I'll sell cheap, Only tool I got from them that I
wasn't satified with..Exact same results as Dan.
Rick S.
40185
Wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wire Tool
>
>> Thanks, I've been leaning towards that one, but just wanted to make sure
>> it worked ok with Tefzel. I see on Dan C.'s Tool section of his site, he
>> has the same I think.
>
> I do have the same one (the "automatic" stripper from Cleaveland) and I
> *DO
> NOT* use it on my aircraft wires. In my experience, it leaves notches in
> the insulation which in some cases fully penetrated the insulation.
>
> The stripper I use is the Ideal T-Stripper 45-121. Totally manual. I
> bought mine from Fry's if I remember correctly.
>
> http://www.idealindustries.co.uk/index.cfm?pid=14&op=dsp&pk=13878&fk=342
>
> The "automatic" stripper is in the tool bin for non-critical stuff (jeez,
> what's non-critical on your plane? in other words, I never use mine).
> The
> last thing I want to see are breaks in my insulation. Your mileage
> definitely may vary. I may have tried this on 22AWG and tossed it. It
> may
> acually work fine on larger gauge, or thicker insulation...or something.
> Anyway, try it and see if you like it. You might, you might not.
>
> I believe you definitely get what you pay for when it comes to wire
> strippers. The expensive ones are expensive because they WORK. I'm too
> cheap to splurge on the nice stuff. If I made wire harnesses for a living
> that would be a different story...
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)thayer.dartmouth.edu> |
| Subject: | Sherwin Williams 988 Primer |
Thought I would report back to the group
on my experience with the Sherwin Williams 988
self-etching primer in a rattle can.
Overall, I like it. It has a special
nozzle, and is very easy to apply (and apply
where you want it). It is easy to work with, and
no special worries about chemical issues, although
as with anything of this nature you'd want to
wear gloves and a good breathing mask or respirator.
It is easy to apply and get a good even coat without
runs.
If you are working with your parts within
a day or two of priming, you can scratch it.
However, after it has set for a few days, it seems to
harden up quite well, and is not so prone to
easy scratching. I just did a little touch-up
on the places I scratched when assembling.
I won't know for a few years how it
lasts over time, but so far I am happy with my
decision to use it.
Just thought I'd share...
-Dj
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
That is one nice hangar. Guess I must have Hangar envy.
John - KUAO
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Subject: RV10-List: Oshkosh?
Here are a few pictures. Now it's time for exhaust and wiring.
N256H #40241
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net> |
<005101c56edf$dde4aa00$6400a8c0@inspinc.ad>
Wow, that stripper (T-Stripper 45-121) is only $10 online!
<http://www.hmcelectronics.com/cgi-bin/scripts/product/4440-0015>
If it works as good as you say for $10, that's a steal!
-Sean
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
>
>
>>Thanks, I've been leaning towards that one, but just wanted to make sure
>>it worked ok with Tefzel. I see on Dan C.'s Tool section of his site, he
>>has the same I think.
>>
>>
>
>I do have the same one (the "automatic" stripper from Cleaveland) and I *DO
>NOT* use it on my aircraft wires. In my experience, it leaves notches in
>the insulation which in some cases fully penetrated the insulation.
>
>The stripper I use is the Ideal T-Stripper 45-121. Totally manual. I
>bought mine from Fry's if I remember correctly.
>
>http://www.idealindustries.co.uk/index.cfm?pid=14&op=dsp&pk=13878&fk=342
>
>The "automatic" stripper is in the tool bin for non-critical stuff (jeez,
>what's non-critical on your plane? in other words, I never use mine). The
>last thing I want to see are breaks in my insulation. Your mileage
>definitely may vary. I may have tried this on 22AWG and tossed it. It may
>acually work fine on larger gauge, or thicker insulation...or something.
>Anyway, try it and see if you like it. You might, you might not.
>
>I believe you definitely get what you pay for when it comes to wire
>strippers. The expensive ones are expensive because they WORK. I'm too
>cheap to splurge on the nice stuff. If I made wire harnesses for a living
>that would be a different story...
>
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D
>http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=7205&group
_ID=796&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
This was the stripper that most of the A&P students would pop for from
Snap-on. The quality of build, the quality to stripped insulation, the
correct size cut on the insulation on the AWG scale and their
replacement policy was a professional decision. Buy it once, buy it for
life.
John - KUAO
P.S. I have five different strippers in my toolbox and this one is used
for the quality work. It is a little heavy to hold on the 22AWG but
gets in great in real tight locations anywhere (even in blind strip
operations).
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wire Tool
Wow, that stripper (T-Stripper 45-121) is only $10 online!
<http://www.hmcelectronics.com/cgi-bin/scripts/product/4440-0015>
If it works as good as you say for $10, that's a steal!
-Sean
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
>
>
>>Thanks, I've been leaning towards that one, but just wanted to make
sure
>>it worked ok with Tefzel. I see on Dan C.'s Tool section of his site,
he
>>has the same I think.
>>
>>
>
>I do have the same one (the "automatic" stripper from Cleaveland) and I
*DO
>NOT* use it on my aircraft wires. In my experience, it leaves notches
in
>the insulation which in some cases fully penetrated the insulation.
>
>The stripper I use is the Ideal T-Stripper 45-121. Totally manual. I
>bought mine from Fry's if I remember correctly.
>
>http://www.idealindustries.co.uk/index.cfm?pid=14&op=dsp&pk=13878&fk=34
2
>
>The "automatic" stripper is in the tool bin for non-critical stuff
(jeez,
>what's non-critical on your plane? in other words, I never use mine).
The
>last thing I want to see are breaks in my insulation. Your mileage
>definitely may vary. I may have tried this on 22AWG and tossed it. It
may
>acually work fine on larger gauge, or thicker insulation...or
something.
>Anyway, try it and see if you like it. You might, you might not.
>
>I believe you definitely get what you pay for when it comes to wire
>strippers. The expensive ones are expensive because they WORK. I'm
too
>cheap to splurge on the nice stuff. If I made wire harnesses for a
living
>that would be a different story...
>
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D
>http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com> |
First six rivets done. How many more?
John Jessen
(VS riveting begun)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aeroads(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Sherwin Williams 988 Primer |
Re Dj Merrill prime Just ready to order emp. kit and have been agonizing over
the etch alodyne prime issue did you simple clean your parts and spray
with the Sherwin Williams 988? and your are satisfied? many thanks for
the posting Murray Randall
-------------- Original message --------------
>
> Thought I would report back to the group
> on my experience with the Sherwin Williams 988
> self-etching primer in a rattle can.
>
> Overall, I like it. It has a special
> nozzle, and is very easy to apply (and apply
> where you want it). It is easy to work with, and
> no special worries about chemical issues, although
> as with anything of this nature you'd want to
> wear gloves and a good breathing mask or respirator.
> It is easy to apply and get a good even coat without
> runs.
>
> If you are working with your parts within
> a day or two of priming, you can scratch it.
> However, after it has set for a few days, it seems to
> harden up quite well, and is not so prone to
> easy scratching. I just did a little touch-up
> on the places I scratched when assembling.
>
> I won't know for a few years how it
> lasts over time, but so far I am happy with my
> decision to use it.
>
> Just thought I'd share...
>
> -Dj
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re Dj Merrill prime Just ready to order emp. kit and have been agonizing over the
etch alodyne prime issue did you simple clean your parts and spray with the
Sherwin Williams 988? and your are satisfied? many thanks for the posting Murray
Randall
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill
Thought I would report back to the group
on my experience with the Sherwin Williams 988
self-etching primer in a rattle can.
Overall, I like it. It has a special
nozzle, and is very easy to apply (and apply
where you want it). It is easy to work with, and
no special worries about chemical issues, although
as with anything of this nature you'd want to
wear gloves and a good breathing mask or respirator.
It is easy to apply and get a good even coat without
runs.
If you are working with your parts within
a day or two of priming, you can scratch it.
However, after it has set for a few days, it seems to
E>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net> |
John,
Could you post the model number of the stripper you were discussing. The
link didn't work and they have a number of wire strippers that appear to cut
down to 22AWG.
Thanks,
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wire Tool
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=7205&group
_ID=796&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
This was the stripper that most of the A&P students would pop for from
Snap-on. The quality of build, the quality to stripped insulation, the
correct size cut on the insulation on the AWG scale and their
replacement policy was a professional decision. Buy it once, buy it for
life.
John - KUAO
P.S. I have five different strippers in my toolbox and this one is used
for the quality work. It is a little heavy to hold on the 22AWG but
gets in great in real tight locations anywhere (even in blind strip
operations).
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wire Tool
Wow, that stripper (T-Stripper 45-121) is only $10 online!
<http://www.hmcelectronics.com/cgi-bin/scripts/product/4440-0015>
If it works as good as you say for $10, that's a steal!
-Sean
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
>
>
>>Thanks, I've been leaning towards that one, but just wanted to make
sure
>>it worked ok with Tefzel. I see on Dan C.'s Tool section of his site,
he
>>has the same I think.
>>
>>
>
>I do have the same one (the "automatic" stripper from Cleaveland) and I
*DO
>NOT* use it on my aircraft wires. In my experience, it leaves notches
in
>the insulation which in some cases fully penetrated the insulation.
>
>The stripper I use is the Ideal T-Stripper 45-121. Totally manual. I
>bought mine from Fry's if I remember correctly.
>
>http://www.idealindustries.co.uk/index.cfm?pid=14&op=dsp&pk=13878&fk=34
2
>
>The "automatic" stripper is in the tool bin for non-critical stuff
(jeez,
>what's non-critical on your plane? in other words, I never use mine).
The
>last thing I want to see are breaks in my insulation. Your mileage
>definitely may vary. I may have tried this on 22AWG and tossed it. It
may
>acually work fine on larger gauge, or thicker insulation...or
something.
>Anyway, try it and see if you like it. You might, you might not.
>
>I believe you definitely get what you pay for when it comes to wire
>strippers. The expensive ones are expensive because they WORK. I'm
too
>cheap to splurge on the nice stuff. If I made wire harnesses for a
living
>that would be a different story...
>
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D
>http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net> |
Exacrty 17,000,984 rivets to go, but some of them are pop rivets.
Bob K
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RV10-List: First six
First six rivets done. How many more?
John Jessen
(VS riveting begun)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)thayer.dartmouth.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Sherwin Williams 988 Primer |
aeroads(at)comcast.net wrote:
> Re Dj Merrill prime Just ready to order emp. kit and have been
> agonizing over the etch alodyne prime issue did you simple clean
> your parts and spray with the Sherwin Williams 988? and your are
> satisfied? many thanks for the posting Murray Randall
Yes, that's all I did, cleaned with denatured
alcohol and sprayed with the primer.
Keep in mind that this is my first time
building and I have zero experience prior to this,
other than the research I have done on the topic
over the past year.
Priming is as bad as the Ford-Chevy argument.
*I'm* satisfied, but there are plenty of others
who would not be. *grin*
-Dj
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net> |
| Subject: | What I did with priming |
<42AC4957.7090703(at)thayer.dartmouth.edu>
What I did in regards to priming is to Alodine all parts I could, then
spray with PPG DP50LF Epoxy primer. I have worked on my own cars with
the "self etching" primers before and I am less than satisfied with
them. In my experience, even if you properly clean and scuff the
surface, the primer will eventually fail several years down the road.
I've learned from experience. Of course, my cars stay out in the weather
24x7x365.... Your mileage may vary...
My search for a zinc chromate epoxy primer was fruitless.. It seems
nobody sells it anymore (at least not in less than 30 Gal. barrels), so
I decided to Alodine to get the chromate. The company I work for makes
portable blood gas analyzers (medical equipment) and we Alodine all our
aluminium chassis and I have seen how well it holds up even after 15 years.
Why did I go with PPG DP50LF primer? That's an easy one... First, I
wanted an epoxy primer. I looked at AZKO, but it said "for interior use
only"... I wanted an Exterior quality primer, and again my experience on
my cars told me that the PPG epoxy primer holds up well. It is expensive
($30/qt, + $30/pt catalyst + $40/gal thinner (you mix it 2:1:0.5
primer:catalyst:thinner:)) but after years on my cars it has held up well.
One more tip: I was going through primer like it was going out of style,
even with a small touchup gun. I went to the hobby shop and bought a
good airbrush ($80) and now I can do parts one at a time, instead of
"batching" the paint jobs and it has so little overspray all you need is
a piece of newspaper behind what you spray. Even on the H.S. Spar it
works very well. I mixed 3oz (before spraying) and could prime the front
HS spar, the spar doubler, the spar caps, the attach brackets, and still
have about 1/2 oz. left over.
-Jim 40384, just primed HS. Front spar parts....
Dj Merrill wrote:
>
> aeroads(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
>> Re Dj Merrill prime Just ready to order emp. kit and have been
>> agonizing over the etch alodyne prime issue did you simple clean
>> your parts and spray with the Sherwin Williams 988? and your are
>> satisfied? many thanks for the posting Murray Randall
>
>
> Yes, that's all I did, cleaned with denatured
> alcohol and sprayed with the primer.
>
> Keep in mind that this is my first time
> building and I have zero experience prior to this,
> other than the research I have done on the topic
> over the past year.
>
> Priming is as bad as the Ford-Chevy argument.
> *I'm* satisfied, but there are plenty of others
> who would not be. *grin*
>
> -Dj
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net> |
This is where I get a little confused.
I was under the impression that die-type blades are better for Tefzel as
opposed to knife-type blades. Hence the more expensive Ideal
Stripmaster 45-174 would be required for most of our aircraft wiring.
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=64024&item=5732895463&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V>
Are die-type blades really not required for Tefzel?
-Sean
John W. Cox wrote:
>
>http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=7205&group
>_ID=796&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
>
>This was the stripper that most of the A&P students would pop for from
>Snap-on. The quality of build, the quality to stripped insulation, the
>correct size cut on the insulation on the AWG scale and their
>replacement policy was a professional decision. Buy it once, buy it for
>life.
>
>John - KUAO
>
>P.S. I have five different strippers in my toolbox and this one is used
>for the quality work. It is a little heavy to hold on the 22AWG but
>gets in great in real tight locations anywhere (even in blind strip
>operations).
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aeroads(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: What I did with priming |
How's this I alumiprep soak, alodine soak the ribs, and all smaller parts
and no primer on the alodined parts HS spar I could do in a plastic sheet
lined box I've used the airbrush and been happy a bit slow but yeah no
overspray thanks for the help I have built a basically wood amphibian
but the aluminum is all new and all advice is greatly appreciated thanks
Murray Randall
-------------- Original message --------------
>
> What I did in regards to priming is to Alodine all parts I could, then
> spray with PPG DP50LF Epoxy primer. I have worked on my own cars with
> the "self etching" primers before and I am less than satisfied with
> them. In my experience, even if you properly clean and scuff the
> surface, the primer will eventually fail several years down the road.
> I've learned from experience. Of course, my cars stay out in the weather
> 24x7x365.... Your mileage may vary...
>
> My search for a zinc chromate epoxy primer was fruitless.. It seems
> nobody sells it anymore (at least not in less than 30 Gal. barrels), so
> I decided to Alodine to get the chromate. The company I work for makes
> portable blood gas analyzers (medical equipment) and we Alodine all our
> aluminium chassis and I have seen how well it holds up even after 15 years.
>
> Why did I go with PPG DP50LF primer? That's an easy one... First, I
> wanted an epoxy primer. I looked at AZKO, but it said "for interior use
> only"... I wanted an Exterior quality primer, and again my experience on
> my cars told me that the PPG epoxy primer holds up well. It is expensive
> ($30/qt, + $30/pt catalyst + $40/gal thinner (you mix it 2:1:0.5
> primer:catalyst:thinner:)) but after years on my cars it has held up well.
>
> One more tip: I was going through primer like it was going out of style,
> even with a small touchup gun. I went to the hobby shop and bought a
> good airbrush ($80) and now I can do parts one at a time, instead of
> "batching" the paint jobs and it has so little overspray all you need is
> a piece of newspaper behind what you spray. Even on the H.S. Spar it
> works very well. I mixed 3oz (before spraying) and could prime the front
> HS spar, the spar doubler, the spar caps, the attach brackets, and still
> have about 1/2 oz. left over.
>
> -Jim 40384, just primed HS. Front spar parts....
>
> Dj Merrill wrote:
>
> >
> > aeroads(at)comcast.net wrote:
> >
> >> Re Dj Merrill prime Just ready to order emp. kit and have been
> >> agonizing over the etch alodyne prime issue did you simple clean
> >> your parts and spray with the Sherwin Williams 988? and your are
> >> satisfied? many thanks for the posting Murray Randall
> >
> >
> > Yes, that's all I did, cleaned with denatured
> > alcohol and sprayed with the primer.
> >
> > Keep in mind that this is my first time
> > building and I have zero experience prior to this,
> > other than the research I have done on the topic
> > over the past year.
> >
> > Priming is as bad as the Ford-Chevy argument.
> > *I'm* satisfied, but there are plenty of others
> > who would not be. *grin*
> >
> > -Dj
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
How's this I alumiprep soak, alodine soak the ribs, and all smaller parts and no
primer on the alodined parts HS spar I could do in a plastic sheet lined box
I've used the airbrush and been happy a bit slow but yeah no overspray thanks
for the help I have built abasically wood amphibian but the aluminum is all new
and all advice is greatly appreciatedthanks Murray Randall
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV10-List message posted by: James Hein
What I did in regards to priming is to Alodine all parts I could, then
spray with PPG DP50LF Epoxy primer. I have worked on my own cars with
the "self etching" primers before and I am less than satisfied with
them. In my experience, even if you properly clean and scuff the
surface, the primer will eventually fail several years down the road.
I've learned from experience. Of course, my cars stay out in the weather
24x7x365.... Your mileage may vary...
My search for a zinc chromate epoxy primer was fruitless.. It seems
nobody sells it anymore (at least not in less than 30 Gal. barrels), so
I decided to Alodine to get the chromate. The company I work for makes
&
gt; portable blood gas analyzers (medical equipment) and we Alodine all our
aluminium chassis and I have seen how well it holds up even after 15 years.
Why did I go with PPG DP50LF primer? That's an easy one... First, I
wanted an epoxy primer. I looked at AZKO, but it said "for interior use
only"... I wanted an Exterior quality primer, and again my experience on
my cars told me that the PPG epoxy primer holds up well. It is expensive
($30/qt, + $30/pt catalyst + $40/gal thinner (you mix it 2:1:0.5
primer:catalyst:thinner:)) but after years on my cars it has held up well.
One more tip: I was going through primer like it was going out of style,
even with a small touchup gun. I went to the hobby shop and bought a
good airbrush ($80) and now I can do parts one at a time, instead of
"batching" the paint jobs and it has so little overspray all you need is
a
piece of newspaper behind what you spray. Even on the H.S. Spar it
works very well. I mixed 3oz (before spraying) and could prime the front
HS spar, the spar doubler, the spar caps, the attach brackets, and still
have about 1/2 oz. left over.
-Jim 40384, just primed HS. Front spar parts....
Dj Merrill wrote:
-- RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill
aeroads(at)comcast.net wrote:
Re Dj Merrill prime Just ready to order emp. kit and have been
agonizing over the etch alodyne prime issue did you simple clean
your parts and spray with the Sherwin Williams 988? and your are
satisfied? many thanks for the posting Murray Randall
Yes, that's all I did, cleaned with denatured
alcohol and sprayed with the
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com> |
Need a little help with the J-Stiffeners for the wing kit. One of each size
stiffener is marked with two circles next to each other about every 3 feet.
Is this normal? Is the stiffener good? I have all ready cut them and now I
am stuck until I can figure out if I messed something up and if the
stiffeners are good. I can not find a reference in the drawings. Thanks in
advance.
Rene'
N423CF
40322
Middle of wings...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "brian bollaert" <bbollaert(at)comcast.net> |
To the group & Tim O to add to the missing list:
While working on the piano hing for the cowl this sat the attach shims that you
are to make were not in the inv (41-7) also the replacement stainless steel pin
material for the hinges was not in the inv, the pin material that comes with
the hinges that are supplied is aluminum (and must be changed out ) a low tech
way to tell (magnet)
Also page 32-5 no bushings 2 called for sb625-7 ,had to rob some from the tailcone
kit . keep in mind i have the QB fuse , not shure on the slow build ,
Will be calling vans monday.
As a sideline i like the idea of using the anywhere map and the traffic scope vrx and there xm weather http://www.anywheremap.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID36 much less costly than chelton weather etc and i like the idea of being able to take it out of the plane when i want , also you have battery backup
Missing parts list GROWING
Brian Bollaert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bruce snyder" <SNYDER888(at)peoplepc.com> |
Rene,
I've seen this on some of my J-Stiffeners in the emp kit and with the wing
kit. Looks like a punch tool started to make a hole and stopped shortly
after coming in contact with the metal. I just ground out the rough edges
and moved on. Don't think it will be a problem.
Bruce Snyder
40353
Wings
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene
Subject: RV10-List: J-Stiffeners
Need a little help with the J-Stiffeners for the wing kit. One of each size
stiffener is marked with two circles next to each other about every 3 feet.
Is this normal? Is the stiffener good? I have all ready cut them and now I
am stuck until I can figure out if I messed something up and if the
stiffeners are good. I can not find a reference in the drawings. Thanks in
advance.
Rene'
N423CF
40322
Middle of wings...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: J-Stiffeners |
Rene,
One of my "J" stiffeners was the same as you describe. Looked like a mark
left over from the manufacturing process. I just polished mine out and went
on with the build. They weren't that deep..........john
John Hasbrouck
#40264
Tank sealant up to my elbows.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com> |
John,
That's right! My method, FWIW, is to measure twice, cut once, expletive
deleted, call Van's for another piece. Worked well so far! ;)
John Hasbrouck
#40264
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
John,
At your stage it feels a lot better to just think you have about 5 lbs of
rivets to go...sounds better than 25,000.
Rick S.
40185
Wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: RV10-List: First six
>
>
> First six rivets done. How many more?
>
> John Jessen
> (VS riveting begun)
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Traffic Scope (was missing parts) |
My neighbor flys with the Traffic Scope VRX. It does a FINE job. They
also make an adapter to panel mount the unit, easy for our experimental
aircraft. No field approval required. :-)
Larry
brian bollaert wrote:
> To the group & Tim O to add to the missing list:
>
> While working on the piano hing for the cowl this sat the attach shims
> that you are to make were not in the inv (41-7) also the replacement
> stainless steel pin material for the hinges was not in the inv, the
> pin material that comes with the hinges that are supplied is aluminum
> (and must be changed out ) a low tech way to tell (magnet)
> Also page 32-5 no bushings 2 called for sb625-7 ,had to rob some from
> the tailcone kit . keep in mind i have the QB fuse , not shure on the
> slow build ,
>
> Will be calling vans monday.
>
> As a sideline i like the idea of using the anywhere map and the
> traffic scope vrx and there xm weather
> http://www.anywheremap.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=36 much less
> costly than chelton weather etc and i like the idea of being able to
> take it out of the plane when i want , also you have battery backup
>
>
>
>
> Missing parts list GROWING
>
> Brian Bollaert
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: missing parts |
Thanks for the update... Did you get your finishing kit yet? I
think I remember there being some hinge pins in that box. I
wonder if you have to wait until you're mounting the cowling on before
you actually receive the pins. As for the SB625-7's, I know I
installed mine, but I can't tell you if I was short them in the
kit or not....I bought a pile of extras in various sizes and just
dipped into those since they were handy.
FYI: Skimming the packing list for the finshing kit....
2 AN257-P3x6' Hinge x6'
1 Hinge Piano 063x3' Leg Fairing Hinge All
1 Hinge Piano 063x6' 063 Piano Hinge
1 SSP-090x6' Stainless Steel Pin
1 SSP-120x6' stainless Steel Pin
I'm not at all sure that the hinge pins in the finish
kit would be the ones that go with the hinges you refer
to...I'm not that far yet.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
brian bollaert wrote:
> To the group & Tim O to add to the missing list:
>
> While working on the piano hing for the cowl this sat the attach shims
> that you are to make were not in the inv (41-7) also the replacement
> stainless steel pin material for the hinges was not in the inv, the pin
> material that comes with the hinges that are supplied is aluminum (and
> must be changed out ) a low tech way to tell (magnet)
> Also page 32-5 no bushings 2 called for sb625-7 ,had to rob some from
> the tailcone kit . keep in mind i have the QB fuse , not shure on the
> slow build ,
>
> Will be calling vans monday.
>
> As a sideline i like the idea of using the anywhere map and the traffic
> scope vrx and there xm weather
> http://www.anywheremap.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=36 much less
> costly than chelton weather etc and i like the idea of being able to
> take it out of the plane when i want , also you have battery backup
>
>
>
>
> Missing parts list GROWING
>
> Brian Bollaert
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BBreckenridge(at)att.net |
1.25 RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO Received: contains an IP address used for HELO
I wish I would've read this thread before dropping by on you this evening! Sorry,
but I just cracked up 'cuz I knew exactly what part you were cursing about!
But, alas, it's not for me to laugh. My kit is but a wheel chock in the hanger
- BUT THAT WILL CHANGE! Oh, one more thing - don't try to totally disassemble
a Chicago Pneumatic 214 Squeezer without talking to me first....
Bruce
Picking up the wing kit Tuesday! Now, I'll have enough chocks for 3 cars in the
hanger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | RV-10 Panel Rib modification |
Forgot to add a couple notes to my last email:
#1. I also did the modification to my left and right panel ribs, in
preparation for my Chelton system. See here for photos:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050610
And, Saturday a.m. I got a great visit from Gary Specketer and his wife.
Gary's an RV-10 builder and EAA Technical counselor who's built a few
other planes in the past. It was fantastic to have someone like him
come and look ove rmy work. I might be wrong, but I think the only
actual builder who's ever seen my plane is a buddy who's building
a -4, so it was great to get his stamp of approval on what I've done
so far. I didn't realize that the FAA looks positively at the fact
that you've had 3 visits from EAA Tech. counselors. In the short time
he was over, I got good advice on a few issues, and he found a couple
of rivets that Van's spec'd too short, and nuts that were spec'd too
thick, not allowing enough threads to show. If you haven't looked
into an EAA Technical counselor visit, I'd encourage a new builder to
probably meet one too look at your Vertical Stab just to ease
your mind, and then possibly inspect at the end of your empennage,
and end of the wings. Since this was my first visit out of at
least 3 that I should try for, I'll probably do one as a pre-signoff
inspection, and maybe one a the time I mate up my wings. It's a
great and valuable service these guys are performing.
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
You could also replace the fitting on the Andair valve, assuming it's
one of the side fittings. I got replacements from Andair for ~$12 each.
Greg
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I got started on my Andair fuel valve install this weekend.
> Only got started and not finished because as it turns out,
> the valve that Wicks sells is NOT the one you'd want to do
> the -10. Van's sells one with 1/4" NPT, but Wicks has 3/8"
> MALE flare. The fix is to send back the Wicks valve and buy
> one from Van's, or spend over $55 for a 90 degree swivel
> Banjo fitting for the Andair from Wicks. Don't know which
> way it'll be yet though.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Crawford <crawfordh(at)mac.panasonic.com> |
| Subject: | Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS |
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Olson [mailto:Tim(at)MyRV10.com]
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS
Droopy,
I'll address these as best I can.
GPS: You have my understanding down precisely. I'm not an expert in the
TSO legality area, but from what I've been told, the equipment will be
legal to fly GPS and other approaches....just not WAAS. I will do my
best to find out the true, 100% answer, with something leagalese to
back it up with next week when I can talk to Direct To Avionics. I'll
try to pull some real sold info out of them so we can bury this topic.
Autopilots. Yes, you have the theory right. The TruTrak is a great
stand-alone way to still keep yourself alive, and when you couple
the Digiflight with the Chelton (or GRT), you can then fly the ILS,
because the Nav signal goes into the GRT/Chelton and then the
GRT/Chelton runs the autopilot down the approach. If you don't
get a GRT or Chelton though, you're right, you'll want the Sorcerer...
which is why I initially went that route. I know at least one other
list member was talked OUT of the sorcerer by TruTrak in favor of
the DigiFlight for just this reason, so I have no reason to doubt it.
I don't know what to say bout the yaw damper...never used one. Don't
know how nice it would be...or necessary.
EIS: I also think Rob has a fantastic EIS. Everything about it is
spectacular. The only issue (right now) is that it doesn't integrate
into the Chelton if you have it. I don't think you'd lose any EIS
functionality by having the AFS2500....you would be losing out on
some additional Chelton functionality though....(or GRT if you went
that way). The thing is, that 3rd screen, if you put it over on
the right side, isn't JUST an EIS anymore at that point. It's also
a separate HSI, or Attitude display, or Map, or weather screen, or
any of those cool things, for your co-pilot to use. I often fly
with my Father, and we trade flying sometimes. I know I'll likely
not let him fly left seat in my plane....too hard to trust someone
else... :) but, having the 3rd screen will allow him to have all
the info he wants. My wife is also very interested in obtaining
some proficiency in running the maps and stuff. With this in mind,
I view that 3rd screen as being NOT an EIS for quite a bit of time.
I want an attitude, and Map or HSI up most of the time on the
left 2 screens. The right one, well, that will depend on the
situation.....in many cases it might just be an EIS.
I feel I need to apologise to the list for taking up so much bandwidth
on this panel topic...but I think there's a LOT of info out there that
is just not known. And, I think people assume these panels are EXTREME
in cost...so they try to piece together lots of things they want. Some
of the hardest info to come by is good, accurate info on how things
integrate. I've been making this panel my life until I get every
concept pinned down...and I just want to pass along the things I'm
finding out. Hopefully, we can all learn about EVERYONE's system, not
just the Chelton or GRT. I'm not at all a BMA fan anymore, despite
their beautiful Sport screen, but, as we move forward, they will
improve their integration too...so hopefully we can keep some good info
on true capabilities, and keep it current.
From what I've learned recently though, as I HAD to dig the info up
so I could pin down my choices and actually put money into things,
there are really 2 very nice routes to go. The GRT, and the Chelton.
Both will expand your capabilities immensely, and let you have
functions and features not possible in many other combos....and they
enhance the TruTrak as mentioned above...all while saving money.
The Chelton just adds a pile of higher quality and more features on
to the GRT. It's a system for either budget.
Very soon, I'll just sit down and start adding to my panel page. I'll
list known functionalities, with references if possible. That way there
will be a good reference out there without me taking up your bandwidth.
Maybe this weekend I'll get some time, but I'll need to get some
answers yet next week.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Droopy Erickson wrote:
> Tim,
>
> Couple of questions about your panel and the ongoing discussions. First
> off, beautiful panel, similiar in lines to where I'm headed (a couple
> years after you...).
>
> GPS: You mentioned earlier (I'm to lazy to cut and paste from the
> previous messages) that you couple legally fly enroute and terminal
> approaches with the Chelton system, just not WAAS approaches. To do
> that, you have to meet the TSO standards for enroute and terminal GPS.
> Looking through the Chelton literature, it looks like a TSOd GPS
> receiver was only an option on the Pro system. Is this what you're
> getting, or do you know something I don't?
>
> Autopilots: I love the Trutrack autopilots. I'm going with a Dynon as
> my backup gauges vice the round dials (with an appropriate electrical
> system to eliminate single point failures, etc). I feel the autopilot
> gives me a third "backup" to at least get the plane top-side up. The
> only reason I'm personnaly leaning towards the Sorcerer vice the
> Digiflight is ILS capability. The Digiflight does not track ILS
> approaches. My question, however, is whether you've been told the
> Chelton will take the ILS signals, do it's thing to them, then drive the
> Digiflight appropriately? (I guess the other reason for the Sorcerer
> might be the Yaw damper. We'll have to ask Randy as things progress how
> much, if any tail wag this thing has...)
>
> EIS: I really want Rob's AFS2500. Not only do I thing the engine
> display rocks, but I also really like the ability to put checklist pages
> into it. Could you elaborate a little on what Chelton functionality we
> lose if we go with a Chelton 2 screen (the two on the left side of your
> panel) and a 2500 for the engine stuff?
>
> Thanks for the great webpage and the wealth of great info you've
collected!!
>
> John
> #40208 Smelly fuel tanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-10 Panel Rib modification |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Nuts spec'ed too thick by plan, was one of the major issues found by
Randy's DAR in multiple locations. The change out was easy, but an EAA
Tech visit along the journey is a great recommendation prior to the
signoff.
John - KUAO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
Forgot to add a couple notes to my last email:
#1. I also did the modification to my left and right panel ribs, in
preparation for my Chelton system. See here for photos:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050610
And, Saturday a.m. I got a great visit from Gary Specketer and his wife.
Gary's an RV-10 builder and EAA Technical counselor who's built a few
other planes in the past. It was fantastic to have someone like him
come and look ove rmy work. I might be wrong, but I think the only
actual builder who's ever seen my plane is a buddy who's building
a -4, so it was great to get his stamp of approval on what I've done
so far. I didn't realize that the FAA looks positively at the fact
that you've had 3 visits from EAA Tech. counselors. In the short time
he was over, I got good advice on a few issues, and he found a couple
of rivets that Van's spec'd too short, and nuts that were spec'd too
thick, not allowing enough threads to show. If you haven't looked
into an EAA Technical counselor visit, I'd encourage a new builder to
probably meet one too look at your Vertical Stab just to ease
your mind, and then possibly inspect at the end of your empennage,
and end of the wings. Since this was my first visit out of at
least 3 that I should try for, I'll probably do one as a pre-signoff
inspection, and maybe one a the time I mate up my wings. It's a
great and valuable service these guys are performing.
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
Good question. Here's my answer:
1) The standard valve is very ugly
2) The andair valve has that engraved plate with left/right labeling
whereas you have to stick or paint on labels with the other.
3) The andair valve has a more positive detent feel for when you get
to the left or right position.
4) The andair valve has an OFF position that you can't get to by
just twisting the valve...you couldn't do it by accident.
I'll be flying with kids on 95% of my flights, and they
like to climb around and trade seats.
5) It's not really a retrofit difficulty...you have to build the
whole fuel line system anyway. The convolution is in the
STANDARD valve...you have to cross the fuel lines so the
Left line feeds the RIGH side of the valve, and vice versa.
This is an incredibly screwed up situation, which has already
led to one other builder mounting hsi standard valve backwards
just to make the convoluted routing simpler. The Andair valve
is a much more straightforward and logical plumbing job.
6) The plane is going to be > $150K....point #1 is just too much
to bear when the andair looks so nice. I'm not building a
flying lawn tractor.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
John Jessen wrote:
>
> Gentlemen: What is the reason to go with the Andair? To go to all this
> retrofitting difficulty?
>
> John Jessen
> (4lbs 15.9 oz of rivets to go)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
> [NTK]
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:17 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
>
> -->
>
> Tim, I mount the Andair fuel valave exactly like yours. I used the
> origal brack to mark the position and then made a plate that would rivet to
> the top of it once I cut the center out of the original piece which just
> leaves the angles. I them move it vertically to the point where it just
> meets the underside of the tunnel cover. I have the valve centered in the
> tunnel with the left point directly left and right pointing directly right.
> The problem I am now trying to solve is that the left inlet to the valve is
> still too close to the tunnel side that it is impossible to get the flare
> connection on a 90 degree fitting in the valve. It is about 1/8" - 1/4" too
> long to fit. The issue is the 90 degree fitting will not thread far enough
> into the valve to get better clearance. I am trying to find a shorter 90
> fitting today that will improve this clearance issue. Also note that this
> fitting may have to be turned aft to be able to clear the rudder cables.
>
>
>
>
> Thank You
> Ray Doerr
> CDNI Principal Engineer
> Sprint PCS
> 16020 West 113th Street
> Lenexa, KS 66219
> Mailstop KSLNXK0101
> (913) 859-1414 (Office)
> (913) 226-0106 (Pcs)
> (913) 859-1234 (Fax)
> Ray.R.Doerr(at)mail.sprint.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 12:01 AM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I got started on my Andair fuel valve install this weekend. Only got
> started and not finished because as it turns out, the valve that Wicks
> sells is NOT the one you'd want to do the -10. Van's sells one with
> 1/4" NPT, but Wicks has 3/8" MALE flare. The fix is to send back the
> Wicks valve and buy one from Van's, or spend over $55 for a 90 degree
> swivel Banjo fitting for the Andair from Wicks. Don't know which way
> it'll be yet though.
>
> I did get started on the mounting for the Andair valve, using photos
> from Bob Condrey and Vic Syracuse. I tried to take some good
> preliminary ones until I get my new valve though, so feel free to
> read about it in the fuselage section here:
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/
>
> Also, I did my interior painting today. My end result will be very
> good, but the spraying was not without issue. I made a big mistake
> early on in the cleaning process that I'm not happy with that caused
> me to have plenty of lint trapped in the paint. Luckily for me it
> was mainly on the floor panels where I'll put carpet anyway. I put some
> tips from lessons learned the hard way on that same link, but in the
> fuselage interior painting section.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "brian bollaert" <bbollaert(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
Hey Tim :
The -10 is nothing more than John Deer with wings !! , by the way the hing
pin material Per Vans comes in the finishing Kit . Wondering if i should
switch out the fuel selecter valve ? and go with the andair hhhmm .
Brian Bollaert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
>
> Good question. Here's my answer:
>
> 1) The standard valve is very ugly
> 2) The andair valve has that engraved plate with left/right labeling
> whereas you have to stick or paint on labels with the other.
> 3) The andair valve has a more positive detent feel for when you get
> to the left or right position.
> 4) The andair valve has an OFF position that you can't get to by
> just twisting the valve...you couldn't do it by accident.
> I'll be flying with kids on 95% of my flights, and they
> like to climb around and trade seats.
> 5) It's not really a retrofit difficulty...you have to build the
> whole fuel line system anyway. The convolution is in the
> STANDARD valve...you have to cross the fuel lines so the
> Left line feeds the RIGH side of the valve, and vice versa.
> This is an incredibly screwed up situation, which has already
> led to one other builder mounting hsi standard valve backwards
> just to make the convoluted routing simpler. The Andair valve
> is a much more straightforward and logical plumbing job.
> 6) The plane is going to be > $150K....point #1 is just too much
> to bear when the andair looks so nice. I'm not building a
> flying lawn tractor.
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
>
> John Jessen wrote:
> >
> > Gentlemen: What is the reason to go with the Andair? To go to all this
> > retrofitting difficulty?
> >
> > John Jessen
> > (4lbs 15.9 oz of rivets to go)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
> > [NTK]
> > Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:17 AM
> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
> >
> > -->
> >
> > Tim, I mount the Andair fuel valave exactly like yours. I used the
> > origal brack to mark the position and then made a plate that would rivet
to
> > the top of it once I cut the center out of the original piece which just
> > leaves the angles. I them move it vertically to the point where it just
> > meets the underside of the tunnel cover. I have the valve centered in
the
> > tunnel with the left point directly left and right pointing directly
right.
> > The problem I am now trying to solve is that the left inlet to the valve
is
> > still too close to the tunnel side that it is impossible to get the
flare
> > connection on a 90 degree fitting in the valve. It is about 1/8" - 1/4"
too
> > long to fit. The issue is the 90 degree fitting will not thread far
enough
> > into the valve to get better clearance. I am trying to find a shorter
90
> > fitting today that will improve this clearance issue. Also note that
this
> > fitting may have to be turned aft to be able to clear the rudder cables.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank You
> > Ray Doerr
> > CDNI Principal Engineer
> > Sprint PCS
> > 16020 West 113th Street
> > Lenexa, KS 66219
> > Mailstop KSLNXK0101
> > (913) 859-1414 (Office)
> > (913) 226-0106 (Pcs)
> > (913) 859-1234 (Fax)
> > Ray.R.Doerr(at)mail.sprint.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> > Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 12:01 AM
> > To: RV10
> > Subject: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I got started on my Andair fuel valve install this weekend. Only got
> > started and not finished because as it turns out, the valve that Wicks
> > sells is NOT the one you'd want to do the -10. Van's sells one with
> > 1/4" NPT, but Wicks has 3/8" MALE flare. The fix is to send back the
> > Wicks valve and buy one from Van's, or spend over $55 for a 90 degree
> > swivel Banjo fitting for the Andair from Wicks. Don't know which way
> > it'll be yet though.
> >
> > I did get started on the mounting for the Andair valve, using photos
> > from Bob Condrey and Vic Syracuse. I tried to take some good
> > preliminary ones until I get my new valve though, so feel free to
> > read about it in the fuselage section here:
> >
> > http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/
> >
> > Also, I did my interior painting today. My end result will be very
> > good, but the spraying was not without issue. I made a big mistake
> > early on in the cleaning process that I'm not happy with that caused
> > me to have plenty of lint trapped in the paint. Luckily for me it
> > was mainly on the floor panels where I'll put carpet anyway. I put some
> > tips from lessons learned the hard way on that same link, but in the
> > fuselage interior painting section.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "brian bollaert" <bbollaert(at)comcast.net> |
Question to the list members, is anyone going to the Arlington Washington Flyin
july 6-10 Vans will have there -10 s up there .
Brian B
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
I agree the kit valve leaves a little to be desired, at least the little handle
they've got on it. We're using the regular valve, but may look for a nicer handle
to mount on it down the line, or maybe fab one ourselves . . .
TDT
40025
May finally get a Finish Kit this week!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
Good question. Here's my answer:
1) The standard valve is very ugly
2) The andair valve has that engraved plate with left/right labeling
whereas you have to stick or paint on labels with the other.
3) The andair valve has a more positive detent feel for when you get
to the left or right position.
4) The andair valve has an OFF position that you can't get to by
just twisting the valve...you couldn't do it by accident.
I'll be flying with kids on 95% of my flights, and they
like to climb around and trade seats.
5) It's not really a retrofit difficulty...you have to build the
whole fuel line system anyway. The convolution is in the
STANDARD valve...you have to cross the fuel lines so the
Left line feeds the RIGH side of the valve, and vice versa.
This is an incredibly screwed up situation, which has already
led to one other builder mounting hsi standard valve backwards
just to make the convoluted routing simpler. The Andair valve
is a much more straightforward and logical plumbing job.
6) The plane is going to be > $150K....point #1 is just too much
to bear when the andair looks so nice. I'm not building a
flying lawn tractor.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
John Jessen wrote:
>
> Gentlemen: What is the reason to go with the Andair? To go to all this
> retrofitting difficulty?
>
> John Jessen
> (4lbs 15.9 oz of rivets to go)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
> [NTK]
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:17 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
>
> -->
>
> Tim, I mount the Andair fuel valave exactly like yours. I used the
> origal brack to mark the position and then made a plate that would rivet to
> the top of it once I cut the center out of the original piece which just
> leaves the angles. I them move it vertically to the point where it just
> meets the underside of the tunnel cover. I have the valve centered in the
> tunnel with the left point directly left and right pointing directly right.
> The problem I am now trying to solve is that the left inlet to the valve is
> still too close to the tunnel side that it is impossible to get the flare
> connection on a 90 degree fitting in the valve. It is about 1/8" - 1/4" too
> long to fit. The issue is the 90 degree fitting will not thread far enough
> into the valve to get better clearance. I am trying to find a shorter 90
> fitting today that will improve this clearance issue. Also note that this
> fitting may have to be turned aft to be able to clear the rudder cables.
>
>
>
>
> Thank You
> Ray Doerr
> CDNI Principal Engineer
> Sprint PCS
> 16020 West 113th Street
> Lenexa, KS 66219
> Mailstop KSLNXK0101
> (913) 859-1414 (Office)
> (913) 226-0106 (Pcs)
> (913) 859-1234 (Fax)
> Ray.R.Doerr(at)mail.sprint.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 12:01 AM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I got started on my Andair fuel valve install this weekend. Only got
> started and not finished because as it turns out, the valve that Wicks
> sells is NOT the one you'd want to do the -10. Van's sells one with
> 1/4" NPT, but Wicks has 3/8" MALE flare. The fix is to send back the
> Wicks valve and buy one from Van's, or spend over $55 for a 90 degree
> swivel Banjo fitting for the Andair from Wicks. Don't know which way
> it'll be yet though.
>
> I did get started on the mounting for the Andair valve, using photos
> from Bob Condrey and Vic Syracuse. I tried to take some good
> preliminary ones until I get my new valve though, so feel free to
> read about it in the fuselage section here:
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/
>
> Also, I did my interior painting today. My end result will be very
> good, but the spraying was not without issue. I made a big mistake
> early on in the cleaning process that I'm not happy with that caused
> me to have plenty of lint trapped in the paint. Luckily for me it
> was mainly on the floor panels where I'll put carpet anyway. I put some
> tips from lessons learned the hard way on that same link, but in the
> fuselage interior painting section.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Ochs <jochs(at)froody.org> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Panel Rib modification |
Hrm. Is there a list of the locations where this is true? Or do we need
to check each nut against the accepted standards?
Where does one get a "thinner" nut? I always thought the nuts were
pretty standard... do we just need to use longer bolts?
Thanks,
James
John W. Cox wrote:
>
>Nuts spec'ed too thick by plan, was one of the major issues found by
>Randy's DAR in multiple locations. The change out was easy, but an EAA
>Tech visit along the journey is a great recommendation prior to the
>signoff.
>
>John - KUAO
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 10:19 PM
>To: RV10
>Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>
>
>Forgot to add a couple notes to my last email:
>
>#1. I also did the modification to my left and right panel ribs, in
>preparation for my Chelton system. See here for photos:
>
>http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050610
>
>
>And, Saturday a.m. I got a great visit from Gary Specketer and his wife.
>
> Gary's an RV-10 builder and EAA Technical counselor who's built a few
>other planes in the past. It was fantastic to have someone like him
>come and look ove rmy work. I might be wrong, but I think the only
>actual builder who's ever seen my plane is a buddy who's building
>a -4, so it was great to get his stamp of approval on what I've done
>so far. I didn't realize that the FAA looks positively at the fact
>that you've had 3 visits from EAA Tech. counselors. In the short time
>he was over, I got good advice on a few issues, and he found a couple
>of rivets that Van's spec'd too short, and nuts that were spec'd too
>thick, not allowing enough threads to show. If you haven't looked
>into an EAA Technical counselor visit, I'd encourage a new builder to
>probably meet one too look at your Vertical Stab just to ease
>your mind, and then possibly inspect at the end of your empennage,
>and end of the wings. Since this was my first visit out of at
>least 3 that I should try for, I'll probably do one as a pre-signoff
>inspection, and maybe one a the time I mate up my wings. It's a
>great and valuable service these guys are performing.
>
>
>
>
--
There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself
at the ground and miss. Douglas Adams, 'The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
As it turns out, I won't make it to Arlington. I will be out of town
until Sunday Aft. Randy
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of brian
bollaert
Subject: RV10-List: arlington flyin
Question to the list members, is anyone going to the Arlington
Washington Flyin july 6-10 Vans will have there -10 s up there .
Brian B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Panel Rib modification |
<42ADC7D0.1090701(at)froody.org>
I believe on all nuts you should see something like 2 or 3 threads
showing of the bolt that protrude completely through the nut...in all
locations. Gary said that yes, nyloc nuts are available in a thinner
design. I haven't looked for them yet though. You also could in
some cases go to a "-L" washer (light=thin) and get back some
of your threads. The problem is, the nuts in question on mine were
part of the threads that are on the fitting that makes up the end
of the aileron lever mechanism at the wing root. So, it isn't as
simple as adding a longer bolt...you'd have to have a new custom
fitting made. So, a thinner nut it is.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
James Ochs wrote:
>
> Hrm. Is there a list of the locations where this is true? Or do we need
> to check each nut against the accepted standards?
>
> Where does one get a "thinner" nut? I always thought the nuts were
> pretty standard... do we just need to use longer bolts?
>
> Thanks,
> James
>
> John W. Cox wrote:
>
>>
>> Nuts spec'ed too thick by plan, was one of the major issues found by
>> Randy's DAR in multiple locations. The change out was easy, but an EAA
>> Tech visit along the journey is a great recommendation prior to the
>> signoff.
>>
>> John - KUAO
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>> Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 10:19 PM
>> To: RV10
>> Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>>
>>
>> Forgot to add a couple notes to my last email:
>>
>> #1. I also did the modification to my left and right panel ribs, in
>> preparation for my Chelton system. See here for photos:
>>
>> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050610
>>
>>
>> And, Saturday a.m. I got a great visit from Gary Specketer and his wife.
>>
>> Gary's an RV-10 builder and EAA Technical counselor who's built a few
>> other planes in the past. It was fantastic to have someone like him
>> come and look ove rmy work. I might be wrong, but I think the only
>> actual builder who's ever seen my plane is a buddy who's building
>> a -4, so it was great to get his stamp of approval on what I've done
>> so far. I didn't realize that the FAA looks positively at the fact
>> that you've had 3 visits from EAA Tech. counselors. In the short time
>> he was over, I got good advice on a few issues, and he found a couple
>> of rivets that Van's spec'd too short, and nuts that were spec'd too
>> thick, not allowing enough threads to show. If you haven't looked
>> into an EAA Technical counselor visit, I'd encourage a new builder to
>> probably meet one too look at your Vertical Stab just to ease
>> your mind, and then possibly inspect at the end of your empennage,
>> and end of the wings. Since this was my first visit out of at
>> least 3 that I should try for, I'll probably do one as a pre-signoff
>> inspection, and maybe one a the time I mate up my wings. It's a
>> great and valuable service these guys are performing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
In my mind #3&4 below are the primary reasons to switch valves. The
Andair valve has positive detents only at the 2 fuel tank locations. To
switch the valve you have to lift a button in the middle of the selector
and twist to the off position where it locks.
One other factor for folks that worry stuff is that the valve mechanism
is "make before brake". This means that there isn't a position between
the two tank selections where there is no fuel flowing.
You can absolutely get by with the one in the kit, and most RV builders
have. You can also get by with only a simple set of steam gauges and a
VFR only GPS/COM in the panel. Switching to the Andair valve WILL cost
you some money and time over using the kit supplied valve. However,
when you're finished it won't look like you've adapted a steam valve
from the Queen Mary for use as a fuel selector :)
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
Good question. Here's my answer:
1) The standard valve is very ugly
2) The andair valve has that engraved plate with left/right labeling
whereas you have to stick or paint on labels with the other.
3) The andair valve has a more positive detent feel for when you get
to the left or right position.
4) The andair valve has an OFF position that you can't get to by
just twisting the valve...you couldn't do it by accident.
I'll be flying with kids on 95% of my flights, and they
like to climb around and trade seats.
5) It's not really a retrofit difficulty...you have to build the
whole fuel line system anyway. The convolution is in the
STANDARD valve...you have to cross the fuel lines so the
Left line feeds the RIGH side of the valve, and vice versa.
This is an incredibly screwed up situation, which has already
led to one other builder mounting hsi standard valve backwards
just to make the convoluted routing simpler. The Andair valve
is a much more straightforward and logical plumbing job.
6) The plane is going to be > $150K....point #1 is just too much
to bear when the andair looks so nice. I'm not building a
flying lawn tractor.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
John Jessen wrote:
>
> Gentlemen: What is the reason to go with the Andair? To go to all
this
> retrofitting difficulty?
>
> John Jessen
> (4lbs 15.9 oz of rivets to go)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray
R
> [NTK]
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:17 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
>
> -->
>
> Tim, I mount the Andair fuel valave exactly like yours. I used
the
> origal brack to mark the position and then made a plate that would
rivet to
> the top of it once I cut the center out of the original piece which
just
> leaves the angles. I them move it vertically to the point where it
just
> meets the underside of the tunnel cover. I have the valve centered in
the
> tunnel with the left point directly left and right pointing directly
right.
> The problem I am now trying to solve is that the left inlet to the
valve is
> still too close to the tunnel side that it is impossible to get the
flare
> connection on a 90 degree fitting in the valve. It is about 1/8" -
1/4" too
> long to fit. The issue is the 90 degree fitting will not thread far
enough
> into the valve to get better clearance. I am trying to find a shorter
90
> fitting today that will improve this clearance issue. Also note that
this
> fitting may have to be turned aft to be able to clear the rudder
cables.
>
>
>
>
> Thank You
> Ray Doerr
> CDNI Principal Engineer
> Sprint PCS
> 16020 West 113th Street
> Lenexa, KS 66219
> Mailstop KSLNXK0101
> (913) 859-1414 (Office)
> (913) 226-0106 (Pcs)
> (913) 859-1234 (Fax)
> Ray.R.Doerr(at)mail.sprint.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 12:01 AM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I got started on my Andair fuel valve install this weekend. Only got
> started and not finished because as it turns out, the valve that Wicks
> sells is NOT the one you'd want to do the -10. Van's sells one with
> 1/4" NPT, but Wicks has 3/8" MALE flare. The fix is to send back the
> Wicks valve and buy one from Van's, or spend over $55 for a 90 degree
> swivel Banjo fitting for the Andair from Wicks. Don't know which way
> it'll be yet though.
>
> I did get started on the mounting for the Andair valve, using photos
> from Bob Condrey and Vic Syracuse. I tried to take some good
> preliminary ones until I get my new valve though, so feel free to
> read about it in the fuselage section here:
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/
>
> Also, I did my interior painting today. My end result will be very
> good, but the spraying was not without issue. I made a big mistake
> early on in the cleaning process that I'm not happy with that caused
> me to have plenty of lint trapped in the paint. Luckily for me it
> was mainly on the floor panels where I'll put carpet anyway. I put
some
> tips from lessons learned the hard way on that same link, but in the
> fuselage interior painting section.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com> |
| Subject: | Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
Thanks. The only RV's I've personally helped with have installed these
valves. They are very well built.
John Jessen
(Amazed at how poorly SW988 sprays on, must be doing something wrong)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US
SSA)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
-->
In my mind #3&4 below are the primary reasons to switch valves. The Andair
valve has positive detents only at the 2 fuel tank locations. To switch the
valve you have to lift a button in the middle of the selector and twist to
the off position where it locks.
One other factor for folks that worry stuff is that the valve mechanism is
"make before brake". This means that there isn't a position between the two
tank selections where there is no fuel flowing.
You can absolutely get by with the one in the kit, and most RV builders
have. You can also get by with only a simple set of steam gauges and a VFR
only GPS/COM in the panel. Switching to the Andair valve WILL cost you some
money and time over using the kit supplied valve. However, when you're
finished it won't look like you've adapted a steam valve from the Queen Mary
for use as a fuel selector :)
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
Good question. Here's my answer:
1) The standard valve is very ugly
2) The andair valve has that engraved plate with left/right labeling
whereas you have to stick or paint on labels with the other.
3) The andair valve has a more positive detent feel for when you get
to the left or right position.
4) The andair valve has an OFF position that you can't get to by
just twisting the valve...you couldn't do it by accident.
I'll be flying with kids on 95% of my flights, and they
like to climb around and trade seats.
5) It's not really a retrofit difficulty...you have to build the
whole fuel line system anyway. The convolution is in the
STANDARD valve...you have to cross the fuel lines so the
Left line feeds the RIGH side of the valve, and vice versa.
This is an incredibly screwed up situation, which has already
led to one other builder mounting hsi standard valve backwards
just to make the convoluted routing simpler. The Andair valve
is a much more straightforward and logical plumbing job.
6) The plane is going to be > $150K....point #1 is just too much
to bear when the andair looks so nice. I'm not building a
flying lawn tractor.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
John Jessen wrote:
>
> Gentlemen: What is the reason to go with the Andair? To go to all
this
> retrofitting difficulty?
>
> John Jessen
> (4lbs 15.9 oz of rivets to go)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray
R
> [NTK]
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:17 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
>
> -->
>
> Tim, I mount the Andair fuel valave exactly like yours. I used
the
> origal brack to mark the position and then made a plate that would
rivet to
> the top of it once I cut the center out of the original piece which
just
> leaves the angles. I them move it vertically to the point where it
just
> meets the underside of the tunnel cover. I have the valve centered in
the
> tunnel with the left point directly left and right pointing directly
right.
> The problem I am now trying to solve is that the left inlet to the
valve is
> still too close to the tunnel side that it is impossible to get the
flare
> connection on a 90 degree fitting in the valve. It is about 1/8" -
1/4" too
> long to fit. The issue is the 90 degree fitting will not thread far
enough
> into the valve to get better clearance. I am trying to find a shorter
90
> fitting today that will improve this clearance issue. Also note that
this
> fitting may have to be turned aft to be able to clear the rudder
cables.
>
>
>
>
> Thank You
> Ray Doerr
> CDNI Principal Engineer
> Sprint PCS
> 16020 West 113th Street
> Lenexa, KS 66219
> Mailstop KSLNXK0101
> (913) 859-1414 (Office)
> (913) 226-0106 (Pcs)
> (913) 859-1234 (Fax)
> Ray.R.Doerr(at)mail.sprint.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 12:01 AM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I got started on my Andair fuel valve install this weekend. Only got
> started and not finished because as it turns out, the valve that Wicks
> sells is NOT the one you'd want to do the -10. Van's sells one with
> 1/4" NPT, but Wicks has 3/8" MALE flare. The fix is to send back the
> Wicks valve and buy one from Van's, or spend over $55 for a 90 degree
> swivel Banjo fitting for the Andair from Wicks. Don't know which way
> it'll be yet though.
>
> I did get started on the mounting for the Andair valve, using photos
> from Bob Condrey and Vic Syracuse. I tried to take some good
> preliminary ones until I get my new valve though, so feel free to read
> about it in the fuselage section here:
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/
>
> Also, I did my interior painting today. My end result will be very
> good, but the spraying was not without issue. I made a big mistake
> early on in the cleaning process that I'm not happy with that caused
> me to have plenty of lint trapped in the paint. Luckily for me it was
> mainly on the floor panels where I'll put carpet anyway. I put
some
> tips from lessons learned the hard way on that same link, but in the
> fuselage interior painting section.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com> |
| Subject: | Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
When you two figure this out, PLEASE let us know the result. I think we are
all cutting these in some form or other and an example, even though not the
same, since all panels will differ, will certainly benefit all. If there is
an excel spreadsheet that can help out, that would be icing on the cake.
John Jessen
(beginning to like Chilton's, darn)
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nikolaos Napoli
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve
Hey Tim,
Don't mean to criticize your work, however, I felt I had to mention this. I
looked at the pictures of the cut ribs. The curved surface of the modified
ribs is not capable of carrying much load. The modified rib appears to be
much weaker than the original rib even with the curved stiffener. Without
knowing much about your configuration or how much load it has to carry, I
would suggest at least a doubler on the rib. If you would like you can give
me a call my phone number is in the SunNFun list.
By the way, my background is in Aerospace Engineering specifically
structural analysis of aircraft.
Niko
Tim Olson wrote:
Hi all,
I got started on my Andair fuel valve install this weekend. Only got
started and not finished because as it turns out, the valve that Wicks
sells is NOT the one you'd want to do the -10. Van's sells one with
1/4" NPT, but Wicks has 3/8" MALE flare. The fix is to send back the
Wicks valve and buy one from Van's, or spend over $55 for a 90 degree
swivel Banjo fitting for the Andair from Wicks. Don't know which way
it'll be yet though.
I did get started on the mounting for the Andair valve, using photos
from Bob Condrey and Vic Syracuse. I tried to take some good
preliminary ones until I get my new valve though, so feel free to
read about it in the fuselage section here:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/
Also, I did my interior painting today. My end
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interior Painting / Andair Fuel Valve |
Understood. But, let me ask a question back. #1, the rib is
now effectively "doubled" by more than it's original thickness
in the vertical plane. It used to have a thin horizontal bend
on the bottom of the rib, made out of the rib itself. This
piece surely isn't very structural at those bends, but it is
a .063 angle, which is thicker than the rib material orignally
was....and since it's actually aluminum angle it should be
pretty strong on the other half. If someone were to want to
go for a little more strength, by just not bending the
aluminum strip, you'd probably gain way more back than the
original rib had. The way it sits now, I don't feel that it's
too terribly different than original. About the only weaker
dimension would be if you were to pull directly downward
on that rib, and managed to fold the rib along one of those
curved areas. Another option as you noted would be to actually
put a doubler plate over that rib in addition. This would
increase the strength a lot too. When I cut the rib out,
before I put the new piece in, I pulled on that rib a bit
and with the upper skin riveted everywhere as well, and in
that arched curve shape, it seems to be very stiff anyway
and should be pretty resistant to any type of bend.
I'm not saying it shouldn't have any more added to it than
it does...you'd know better than me with your background.
I do think it should be plenty adequate, but it could also
be improved on. I'll look at it a little more tonight.
The everyday loads on that part aren't that big at all.
It would only be in the extreme crash scenario where I'd
have any question at all. Remember that there's more
structure in place once you tie the cross piece under the panel
into the airframe, and the panel itself would prevent that rib
from bending down.
But, your comments are well taken and are exactly the kinds
of things I want to hear and are nice to see on this list.
I may just call you tonight if I get time.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Nikolaos Napoli wrote:
> Hey Tim,
>
> Don't mean to criticize your work, however, I felt I had to mention
> this. I looked at the pictures of the cut ribs. The curved surface of
> the modified ribs is not capable of carrying much load. The modified
> rib appears to be much weaker than the original rib even with the curved
> stiffener. Without knowing much about your configuration or how much
> load it has to carry, I would suggest at least a doubler on the rib. If
> you would like you can give me a call my phone number is in the SunNFun
> list.
>
> By the way, my background is in Aerospace Engineering specifically
> structural analysis of aircraft.
>
> Niko
>
>
>
> */Tim Olson /* wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I got started on my Andair fuel valve install this weekend. Only got
> started and not finished because as it turns out, the valve that Wicks
> sells is NOT the one you'd want to do the -10. Van's sells one with
> 1/4" NPT, but Wicks has 3/8" MALE flare. The fix is to send back the
> Wicks valve and buy one from Van's, or spend over $55 for a 90 degree
> swivel Banjo fitting for the Andair from Wicks. Don't know which way
> it'll be yet though.
>
> I did get started on the mounting for the Andair valve, using photos
> from Bob Condrey and Vic Syracuse. I tried to take some good
> preliminary ones until I get my new valve though, so feel free to
> read about it in the fuselage section here:
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/
>
> Also, I did my interior painting today. My end
________________________________________________________________________________
;
| From: | Nikolaos Napoli <owl40188(at)yahoo.com> |
Here is how I might make a rib mod. It might be overkill, however, unless I knew
what the loads were I would have no choice but to replace the original strength.
Niko
40188
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "brian bollaert" <bbollaert(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: RV-10 top photos |
To the group :
For others that may have trouble figureing where to trim these pieces on the
fiberglass top .
Brian B
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Risan " <scottr(at)vansaircraft.com>
Subject: RV-10 top photos
> here's a couple photos with approximate trim lines. If you can't see
> the scribe lines, leave this proud so that you can trim a little as
> the installation progresses.
>
> regards, scott at van's
>
>
----
> The following section of this message contains a file attachment
> prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format.
> If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any another MIME-compliant system,
> you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.
> If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance.
>
> ---- File information -----------
> File: Door2.jpg
> Date: 13 Jun 2005, 13:01
> Size: 83279 bytes.
> Type: JPEG-image
>
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> you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.
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>
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> Date: 13 Jun 2005, 12:31
> Size: 312317 bytes.
> Type: JPEG-image
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "brian bollaert" <bbollaert(at)comcast.net> |
<42ADC7D0.1090701(at)froody.org>
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Panel Rib modification |
Hi James :
an A&P mechanic from hanger next to me came over a month ago and looked
over the nuts & bolts on my -10 and pointed out that he was not comfortable
with the amount of thread that was not visable outside the nut (makes sense
to me ) so i have lengthend several at least 5 or 6 threads shoul be visable
he said .
Brian B
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Ochs" <jochs(at)froody.org>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>
> Hrm. Is there a list of the locations where this is true? Or do we need
> to check each nut against the accepted standards?
>
> Where does one get a "thinner" nut? I always thought the nuts were
> pretty standard... do we just need to use longer bolts?
>
> Thanks,
> James
>
> John W. Cox wrote:
>
> >
> >Nuts spec'ed too thick by plan, was one of the major issues found by
> >Randy's DAR in multiple locations. The change out was easy, but an EAA
> >Tech visit along the journey is a great recommendation prior to the
> >signoff.
> >
> >John - KUAO
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> >Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 10:19 PM
> >To: RV10
> >Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
> >
> >
> >Forgot to add a couple notes to my last email:
> >
> >#1. I also did the modification to my left and right panel ribs, in
> >preparation for my Chelton system. See here for photos:
> >
> >http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050610
> >
> >
> >And, Saturday a.m. I got a great visit from Gary Specketer and his wife.
> >
> > Gary's an RV-10 builder and EAA Technical counselor who's built a few
> >other planes in the past. It was fantastic to have someone like him
> >come and look ove rmy work. I might be wrong, but I think the only
> >actual builder who's ever seen my plane is a buddy who's building
> >a -4, so it was great to get his stamp of approval on what I've done
> >so far. I didn't realize that the FAA looks positively at the fact
> >that you've had 3 visits from EAA Tech. counselors. In the short time
> >he was over, I got good advice on a few issues, and he found a couple
> >of rivets that Van's spec'd too short, and nuts that were spec'd too
> >thick, not allowing enough threads to show. If you haven't looked
> >into an EAA Technical counselor visit, I'd encourage a new builder to
> >probably meet one too look at your Vertical Stab just to ease
> >your mind, and then possibly inspect at the end of your empennage,
> >and end of the wings. Since this was my first visit out of at
> >least 3 that I should try for, I'll probably do one as a pre-signoff
> >inspection, and maybe one a the time I mate up my wings. It's a
> >great and valuable service these guys are performing.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw
yourself at the ground and miss. Douglas Adams, 'The Hitchhikers Guide to
the Galaxy'
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Niko, your illustration drives home the point and is most appreciated.
However, your illustration shows an actual cut in the lower diagonal
edge into four independent and separate elements. Tim's work introduced
bends into this (diagonal curved) edge without cuts clear through, which
would decrease strength yet his cuts were only on the vertical which
were effectively doubled back into the original rib vertical. There
must be a computer analysis that could computate the revised doubled
design with comparison to the original rib. We could calculate the
weight of desired safety components (glass cockpit technology) and the
effective arm down to 00.01" then couldn't you derive the lever down
force on the instrument face.
Am I missing something?
The real issue ought to be a mechanism to improve placement of ribs
F-1045-L & R along the firewall and incorporate mounting of the
instrument panel and sunscreen to give the widest range of ergonomically
placed and visually oriented safety equipment. It creates a conundrum
on how Lancair was able to mount Randy's stuff so stylishly without
engineering compromise.
John
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nikolaos
Napoli
Subject: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Here is how I might make a rib mod. It might be overkill, however,
unless I knew what the loads were I would have no choice but to replace
the original strength.
Niko
40188
________________________________________________________________________________
Just browsing Chapter 41 of the fuse plans where it says not to remove any material
from any of these three ribs . . .
TDT
________________________________
| From: | owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of John W. Cox |
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Niko, your illustration drives home the point and is most appreciated. However,
your illustration shows an actual cut in the lower diagonal edge into four independent
and separate elements. Tim's work introduced bends into this (diagonal
curved) edge without cuts clear through, which would decrease strength yet
his cuts were only on the vertical which were effectively doubled back into
the original rib vertical. There must be a computer analysis that could computate
the revised doubled design with comparison to the original rib. We could
calculate the weight of desired safety components (glass cockpit technology)
and the effective arm down to 00.01" then couldn't you derive the lever down force
on the instrument face.
Am I missing something?
The real issue ought to be a mechanism to improve placement of ribs F-1045-L &
R along the firewall and incorporate mounting of the instrument panel and sunscreen
to give the widest range of ergonomically placed and visually oriented safety
equipment. It creates a conundrum on how Lancair was able to mount Randy's
stuff so stylishly without engineering compromise.
John
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nikolaos Napoli
Subject: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Here is how I might make a rib mod. It might be overkill, however, unless I knew
what the loads were I would have no choice but to replace the original strength.
Niko
40188
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
"Removal of material from the F-1044 Center (Forward) Fuselage Rib subassembly
OR F-1045-Left (Forward) Fuselage Rib and Right (Forward) Fuselage Rib is not
allowed." There is no mention of the portion AFT of said components.
I interpret that to currently allow the builder to modify the aft portions on F-1044
Center Subassembly towards the PIC at F-1003C-Left, Center and Right from
F-1068B Center going AFT on F-1045L and from F-1068B R going AFT on F- 1045
Right would be reasonably acceptable. Meaning that Tim's modification is within
the scope of current written instructions on Page 41-2 dated July 21, 2004.
Good news for pursuit of 21st Century instruments.
I must still be missing something.
On a second note: you can certainly read it that way and not pursue room for Chelton,
BMA, GRapids or other glass components while keeping the music "On Key".
It is a great discussion point and demonstrates the value of this forum.
John - $00.02
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Just browsing Chapter 41 of the fuse plans where it says not to remove any material
from any of these three ribs . . .
TDT
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of John W. Cox
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Niko, your illustration drives home the point and is most appreciated. However,
your illustration shows an actual cut in the lower diagonal edge into four independent
and separate elements. Tim's work introduced bends into this (diagonal
curved) edge without cuts clear through, which would decrease strength yet
his cuts were only on the vertical which were effectively doubled back into the
original rib vertical. There must be a computer analysis that could computate
the revised doubled design with comparison to the original rib. We could calculate
the weight of desired safety components (glass cockpit technology) and
the effective arm down to 00.01" then couldn't you derive the lever down force
on the instrument face.
Am I missing something?
The real issue ought to be a mechanism to improve placement of ribs F-1045-L &
R along the firewall and incorporate mounting of the instrument panel and sunscreen
to give the widest range of ergonomically placed and visually oriented safety
equipment. It creates a conundrum on how Lancair was able to mount Randy's
stuff so stylishly without engineering compromise.
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nikolaos Napoli
Subject: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Here is how I might make a rib mod. It might be overkill, however, unless I knew
what the loads were I would have no choice but to replace the original strength.
Niko
40188
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
Anyone on this list that built a slider RV6, 7 or 9 of past will recall
exactly the same issues. In fact, a very large majority of anyone who put
anything other than 2 instruments in their panel had to modify those ribs.
The design is nearly identical, and the issue is nearly identical. It's
been pretty common practice for quite a number of years now to modify those
ribs FORWARD of the sub panel (not behind) to accomodate a variety of
instruments - NOT just glass, which brings up the second subject...the sub
panel itself. Give the depth of many radios, transponders, etc... sometimes
people have to hack holes in the sub-panel as well. No nearly as big of a
deal in the -10 because of the room, but the 3 panel ribs have the same
issue the rest of the fleet has had for years. Anyone who put a radio stack
in the center of the panel usually had to gently "modify" for that reason as
well.
Standard practice has pretty much become to do nearly exactly what Tim O did
(or variation thereof). Van's may not openly endorse such practices, but
that's what's happened over the years. If you build a panel like Van's does
with nothing in it, it's not a problem, but the other 99% of us that put
more than 4 gauges in the panel will end up dealing with it sooner or later
in some form or another.
Not saying any way is better than another to do the mods, but from a
"strength" standpoint, Tim's ribs probably ended up stronger than the
original, as did many who modified them in similar ways.
Anyway, just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
"Removal of material from the F-1044 Center (Forward) Fuselage Rib
subassembly OR F-1045-Left (Forward) Fuselage Rib and Right (Forward)
Fuselage Rib is not allowed." There is no mention of the portion AFT of
said components.
I interpret that to currently allow the builder to modify the aft portions
on F-1044 Center Subassembly towards the PIC at F-1003C-Left, Center and
Right from F-1068B Center going AFT on F-1045L and from F-1068B R going AFT
on F- 1045 Right would be reasonably acceptable. Meaning that Tim's
modification is within the scope of current written instructions on Page
41-2 dated July 21, 2004. Good news for pursuit of 21st Century
instruments.
I must still be missing something.
On a second note: you can certainly read it that way and not pursue room for
Chelton, BMA, GRapids or other glass components while keeping the music "On
Key". It is a great discussion point and demonstrates the value of this
forum.
John - $00.02
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Just browsing Chapter 41 of the fuse plans where it says not to remove any
material from any of these three ribs . . .
TDT
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of John W. Cox
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Niko, your illustration drives home the point and is most appreciated.
However, your illustration shows an actual cut in the lower diagonal edge
into four independent and separate elements. Tim's work introduced bends
into this (diagonal curved) edge without cuts clear through, which would
decrease strength yet his cuts were only on the vertical which were
effectively doubled back into the original rib vertical. There must be a
computer analysis that could computate the revised doubled design with
comparison to the original rib. We could calculate the weight of desired
safety components (glass cockpit technology) and the effective arm down to
00.01" then couldn't you derive the lever down force on the instrument face.
Am I missing something?
The real issue ought to be a mechanism to improve placement of ribs F-1045-L
& R along the firewall and incorporate mounting of the instrument panel and
sunscreen to give the widest range of ergonomically placed and visually
oriented safety equipment. It creates a conundrum on how Lancair was able
to mount Randy's stuff so stylishly without engineering compromise.
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nikolaos Napoli
Subject: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Here is how I might make a rib mod. It might be overkill, however, unless I
knew what the loads were I would have no choice but to replace the original
strength.
Niko
40188
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Admitting a stupid mistake - rudder pedals |
If anyone else got confused by this, let me know so I don't
feel like such a moron....
So, I assembled my rudder pedals, and riveted them nicely.
primed in between the pedal and doubler, and decided I
wanted nice shiny silver pedals. So, I only painted the
"back" side. Which side is the back??? Well, of course,
the rudder pedal with it's raised edges will cup your shoe
of course, right? NOT!! Tonight I went to actually
bolt in those pedals. I found that things weren't looking
quite right per-plans. I thought perhaps the plans were
off....until I looked at Randy's photos (worth a million
bucks if you ask me). Sure as shinola those pedals go
in so that they do not cup your feet....the concave side
goes away from your foot. The thing that really confused
it is that they show the doubler riveted onto what
seemed to be the "back" side (really the front). So, my
nice round-head rivets were on the back of the pedal in
reality, and my foot would go on the shop head. Randy
didn't rivet his per plans, from what I can tell. He put
the doubler on the concave side of the pedal. This gives
a smoother looking pedal since it doesn't have that ridge
around the doubler in view. I see no issue with this.
So, I drilled out each one of those rivets, and now I have
to rivet them and paint them before I continue again...and
they won't be that shiny silver anymore, but will have to
match my interior paint.
Oh well. Just thought I'd bring it up so that future
builders don't have to make that mistake.
Am I the only one?
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
;
| From: | Nikolaos Napoli <owl40188(at)yahoo.com> |
Keep in mind that I have not studied the area in question. I have simply spent
a few minutes looking at Tims drawings and realized that a good portion of the
original strength of the part was not there. In fact I am not sure how the
joints look at either end of the rib which could turn out to be very significant.
In the sketch I am intending to show the horizontal stiffener as a single piece
from front to back. It will carry the axial load resulting from the bending
moment and tranfer some of it to the diagonal member and shear the rest into the
web. This member combined with the diagonal and vertical members creates a
truss structure. The vertical member at the deep end of the rib helps distribute
the load from the horizontal member to the top and bottom members as I doubt
the adjoining rib has any significant structure where the horizontal member
ends.
I have not sized any of these members, however, I suspect the horizontal member
would have to be pretty beefy compared to what was there originally. If one
took the original rib and simply reduced its height by a factor of 2 the resulting
bending strength would be 1/4 of the original thus I would be expecting
to add a lot of material in the narrow section. Maybe not 4 times as much if
done smartly. What I am saying here is that the bending stress in the part is
a quadratic function of the height. All things being equal, If you half the
height you need 4 times the thickness.
At the regions I pointed out (mod 1) the vertical leg of the stiffener is not
there and the horizontal leg is curved which makes it not very effective. An
example would be to look at a straight angle and imagine you are standing it
up on its edge an applying a compressive load like a column. If you took that
same angle and put a large bend in it along its length it would only carry a
small fraction of its original load. Essentially the stiffener at the bottom
of the rib, having a large curvature, can't carry much axial load thats why you
rarely see curved stiffeners in an aircraft. When they have to be curved additional
support has to be provided to support the curvature. About the only
thing the curved stiffener in mod#1 can do effectively is keep that edge of the
rib from buckling. Of course maybe thats the only thing it has to do.
Thus if you combine about a 75% reduction in strength due to the loss of height
with another loss due to the fact that the stiffener is curved you end up with
very little strength compared to the original part. Is the remaining strength
sufficient? I don't know. Currently I have no idea what the actual loads
are and what direction they are in or the details of the structure here. Vans
does have a tendency to overdesign a lot of areas so it could be that the stresses
here are very low.
Can the static loads be estimated and an analysis performed to see if the part
is adequate statically? Yes it can, its not that difficult. A bigger question
would be the vibratory environment its subjected to. That introduces a very
large number of very small loads. Under such environment the allowable fatigue
stresses in alluminum are very low and you don't get the benefit of material
yielding you typically get under static loading. You could possibly expect
the part to be fine under static loads but develop cracks shortly after its put
to use. At that point if one has a hard landing they might find a whole bunch
of equipment sitting on their lap or worse. Analysis for dynamic loads could
be done, however, it would be a lot more involved and time consuming.
Look at it this way. A person can withstand a 10g crash. With the current seat
lets say the aircraft is seeing 15g and the person is seeing 10g (just a guess
not based on anything). A 10lb piece of equipment will exert a 150lb load.
If it lets go and hits someone that person will not do very well as the force
of impact will be even greater.
Having done this for more than 20 yrs now on both military and commercial aircraft
I feel a lot more comfortable replacing the original strength than trying
to figure out what the actual static and vibratory loads are especially as it
appears the drawings are warning against mods here. I am planning on taking
a better look at this area to see if I am missing any of the details. An item
of importance would be how the rib flanges are attached, if they are, to the
rest of the structure.
Niko
"John W. Cox" wrote:
Niko, your illustration drives home the point and is most appreciated. However,
your illustration shows an actual cut in the lower diagonal edge into four independent
and separate elements. Tims work introduced bends into this (diagonal
curved) edge without cuts clear through, which would decrease strength yet
his cuts were only on the vertical which were effectively doubled back into the
original rib vertical. There must be a computer analysis that could computate
the revised doubled design with comparison to the original rib. We could
calculate the weight of desired safety components (glass cockpit technology) and
the effective arm down to 00.01 then couldnt you derive the lever down force
on the instrument face.
Am I missing something?
The real issue ought to be a mechanism to improve placement of ribs F-1045-L &
R along the firewall and incorporate mounting of the instrument panel and sunscreen
to give the widest range of ergonomically placed and visually oriented safety
equipment. It creates a conundrum on how Lancair was able to mount Randys
stuff so stylishly without engineering compromise.
John
---------------------------------
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nikolaos Napoli
Subject: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
Here is how I might make a rib mod. It might be overkill, however, unless I knew
what the loads were I would have no choice but to replace the original strength.
Niko
40188
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robin Wessel" <robin.wessel(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS |
....Autopilots. Yes, you have the theory right. The TruTrak is a great
stand-alone way to still keep yourself alive, and when you couple
the Digiflight with the Chelton (or GRT), you can then fly the ILS,
because the Nav signal goes into the GRT/Chelton and then the
GRT/Chelton runs the autopilot down the approach. If you don't
get a GRT or Chelton though, you're right, you'll want the Sorcerer...
which is why I initially went that route. I know at least one other
list member was talked OUT of the sorcerer by TruTrak in favor of
the DigiFlight for just this reason, so I have no reason to doubt it.
I don't know what to say bout the yaw damper...never used one. Don't
know how nice it would be...or necessary.. . . .
I talked to peter at Direct2Avionics regarding their Chelton SV system. I am
definitely intrigued by their EFIS system especially the synthetic vision,
TSO grade SW and significantly higher resolution display (GRT is only 240
lines horizontal and does not
Here are some the answers I got regarding their system (in my words not
Direct2Avionics)-
Q:Can the Chelton take the SL30 glideslope and convert it into VNAV guidance
for the GPS?
A:Currently their system does not support this functionality although you
can get VNAV guidance via a GPS overlay or synthetic approach. So while the
Chelton may give vertical guidance for a approach, it is not based on the
glideslope. Peter at Direct2 said that it could be possible in a future SW
release.
-If and when the SW upgrade is provided, the Sorcerer A/P is probably
the only way to get a true couple precision approach. I am not sure if a
"synthetic" approach is as good a real ILS. Probably don't want to find out
when breaking out at minimums (not that I ever do that on purpose anyway).
Q:What about about SW updates for the Chelton?
A:Chelton uses Jepp data for the database. Cost is slightly higher than
Garmin and uses smartmedia cards programmed on your PC. Firmware upgrades
are free as long as they do not require new HDW.
-GRT is free but requires a IFR GPS that requires an update assuming you
want to fly GPS approaches. Probably a wash.
Q: Can the Chelton drive a GPS or MFD (i.e. drive an MX20 or program the
flight plan of a 430) or can a IFR GPS drive the Chelton?
A: No, the Chelton is a self contained FMS and uses its own GPS.
-This puts a single screen Chelton w/IFR GPS out the running for a lower
cost EFIS solution for IFR.
Q: Is the EIS included in the system?
A: The Chelton includes an Airdata module that is essentially a EIS minus
the engine monitor features.
-Need to add the cost of an engine monitor when comparing to GRT
Q: What is the difference between the FAA approved SW and the experimental
SW?
A: The FAA approved SW does not include among other things the enhanced 3D
terrain, WSI integration, and enhanced VNAV support.
-Probably no big deal since the important parts of the code are likely
isolated branches.
Robin Wessel
RV-10, wings and fuse
Tigard, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "brian bollaert" <bbollaert(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Admitting a stupid mistake - rudder pedals |
Ha indeed i almost did that also , som a friend of mine was helping me that
day and said i was putting them togeather the wrong way !! (saved me )
Brian B
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Admitting a stupid mistake - rudder pedals
>
> If anyone else got confused by this, let me know so I don't
> feel like such a moron....
>
> So, I assembled my rudder pedals, and riveted them nicely.
> primed in between the pedal and doubler, and decided I
> wanted nice shiny silver pedals. So, I only painted the
> "back" side. Which side is the back??? Well, of course,
> the rudder pedal with it's raised edges will cup your shoe
> of course, right? NOT!! Tonight I went to actually
> bolt in those pedals. I found that things weren't looking
> quite right per-plans. I thought perhaps the plans were
> off....until I looked at Randy's photos (worth a million
> bucks if you ask me). Sure as shinola those pedals go
> in so that they do not cup your feet....the concave side
> goes away from your foot. The thing that really confused
> it is that they show the doubler riveted onto what
> seemed to be the "back" side (really the front). So, my
> nice round-head rivets were on the back of the pedal in
> reality, and my foot would go on the shop head. Randy
> didn't rivet his per plans, from what I can tell. He put
> the doubler on the concave side of the pedal. This gives
> a smoother looking pedal since it doesn't have that ridge
> around the doubler in view. I see no issue with this.
> So, I drilled out each one of those rivets, and now I have
> to rivet them and paint them before I continue again...and
> they won't be that shiny silver anymore, but will have to
> match my interior paint.
>
> Oh well. Just thought I'd bring it up so that future
> builders don't have to make that mistake.
>
> Am I the only one?
> Tim
> --
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS |
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
I can certainly see the value in HITS (highway in the sky), but I can't get really
excited about the synthetic terrain, unless I'm trying to drop a bomb on a
SAM site on the other side of a ridge . . .
If you're flying IFR, and you keep it in the HITS pathway, then you are ipso facto
clear of terrain. And if you do wander off, a "flat" terrain depiction (TAWS-like)
does just as well or better at showing you where you are and where you
need to not be . . .
TDT
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Robin Wessel
Subject: RV10-List: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS
....Autopilots. Yes, you have the theory right. The TruTrak is a great
stand-alone way to still keep yourself alive, and when you couple
the Digiflight with the Chelton (or GRT), you can then fly the ILS,
because the Nav signal goes into the GRT/Chelton and then the
GRT/Chelton runs the autopilot down the approach. If you don't
get a GRT or Chelton though, you're right, you'll want the Sorcerer...
which is why I initially went that route. I know at least one other
list member was talked OUT of the sorcerer by TruTrak in favor of
the DigiFlight for just this reason, so I have no reason to doubt it.
I don't know what to say bout the yaw damper...never used one. Don't
know how nice it would be...or necessary.. . . .
I talked to peter at Direct2Avionics regarding their Chelton SV system. I am definitely
intrigued by their EFIS system especially the synthetic vision, TSO grade
SW and significantly higher resolution display (GRT is only 240 lines horizontal
and does not
Here are some the answers I got regarding their system (in my words not Direct2Avionics)-
Q:Can the Chelton take the SL30 glideslope and convert it into VNAV guidance for
the GPS?
A:Currently their system does not support this functionality although you can get
VNAV guidance via a GPS overlay or synthetic approach. So while the Chelton
may give vertical guidance for a approach, it is not based on the glideslope.
Peter at Direct2 said that it could be possible in a future SW release.
-If and when the SW upgrade is provided, the Sorcerer A/P is probably the
only way to get a true couple precision approach. I am not sure if a "synthetic"
approach is as good a real ILS. Probably don't want to find out when breaking
out at minimums (not that I ever do that on purpose anyway).
Q:What about about SW updates for the Chelton?
A:Chelton uses Jepp data for the database. Cost is slightly higher than Garmin
and uses smartmedia cards programmed on your PC. Firmware upgrades are free as
long as they do not require new HDW.
-GRT is free but requires a IFR GPS that requires an update assuming you want
to fly GPS approaches. Probably a wash.
Q: Can the Chelton drive a GPS or MFD (i.e. drive an MX20 or program the flight
plan of a 430) or can a IFR GPS drive the Chelton?
A: No, the Chelton is a self contained FMS and uses its own GPS.
-This puts a single screen Chelton w/IFR GPS out the running for a lower cost
EFIS solution for IFR.
Q: Is the EIS included in the system?
A: The Chelton includes an Airdata module that is essentially a EIS minus the engine
monitor features.
-Need to add the cost of an engine monitor when comparing to GRT
Q: What is the difference between the FAA approved SW and the experimental SW?
A: The FAA approved SW does not include among other things the enhanced 3D terrain,
WSI integration, and enhanced VNAV support.
-Probably no big deal since the important parts of the code are likely isolated
branches.
Robin Wessel
RV-10, wings and fuse
Tigard, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS |
I'm BCC'in Josh and Direct2Avionics on this one so that he can
follow the questions and clarify if possible. I'll report back
what he says. My comments are inline.
Robin Wessel wrote:
> ....Autopilots. Yes, you have the theory right. The TruTrak is a
> great
>
> stand-alone way to still keep yourself alive, and when you couple
>
> the Digiflight with the Chelton (or GRT), you can then fly the ILS,
>
> because the Nav signal goes into the GRT/Chelton and then the
>
> GRT/Chelton runs the autopilot down the approach. If you don't
>
> get a GRT or Chelton though, you're right, you'll want the
> Sorcerer...
>
> which is why I initially went that route. I know at least one other
>
> list member was talked OUT of the sorcerer by TruTrak in favor of
>
> the DigiFlight for just this reason, so I have no reason to doubt it.
>
>
> I don't know what to say bout the yaw damper...never used one. Don't
>
>
> know how nice it would be...or necessary.. . . .
>
>
>
>
>
> I talked to peter at Direct2Avionics regarding their Chelton SV
> system. I am definitely intrigued by their EFIS system especially the
> synthetic vision, TSO grade SW and significantly higher resolution
> display (GRT is only 240 lines horizontal and does not
>
>
>
> Here are some the answers I got regarding their system (in my words
> not Direct2Avionics)-
>
>
>
> Q:Can the Chelton take the SL30 glideslope and convert it into VNAV
> guidance for the GPS?
>
>
>
> A:Currently their system does not support this functionality although
> you can get VNAV guidance via a GPS overlay or synthetic approach.
> So while the Chelton may give vertical guidance for a approach, it is
> not based on the glideslope. Peter at Direct2 said that it could be
> possible in a future SW release.
>
>
Hold the phone.... Why are you referring to "into VNAV guidance
for the GPS"? Where does this come into play?? I'm not concerned
if it can take ILS glideslope data and use it for a GPS approach.
I want it to take the ILS glideslope and display it as a pair
of needles. That it will do. What it won't do is let you
fly a non-GPS overlaid approach, using the HITS boxes. i.e.
when you fly an ILS, you need to use the needles, not the
boxes. Is this your understanding, or what am I missing?
>
> -If and when the SW upgrade is provided, the Sorcerer A/P is
> probably the only way to get a true couple precision approach. I am
> not sure if a "synthetic" approach is as good a real ILS. Probably
> don't want to find out when breaking out at minimums (not that I ever
> do that on purpose anyway).
>
>
Precision approach meaning GPS WAAS, or ILS? It should be able
to do an ILS right now, with the Digiflight II VSGV. If this isn't
true, I'd sure like to hear where I was mistaken from what was
said previously.
>
> Q:What about about SW updates for the Chelton?
>
>
>
> A:Chelton uses Jepp data for the database. Cost is slightly higher
> than Garmin and uses smartmedia cards programmed on your PC. Firmware
> upgrades are free as long as they do not require new HDW.
>
>
>
> -GRT is free but requires a IFR GPS that requires an update assuming
> you want to fly GPS approaches. Probably a wash.
>
>
Correct there. The Chelton system will actually run you quite a bit
more money for updates than, say, a GNS-480. The thing is, you're
getting terrain and nav data updates for a more sophisticated
system.
>
> Q: Can the Chelton drive a GPS or MFD (i.e. drive an MX20 or program
> the flight plan of a 430) or can a IFR GPS drive the Chelton?
>
> A: No, the Chelton is a self contained FMS and uses its own GPS.
>
>
Accurate as to what I was told. The only real radios it interoperates
with from a "programming" standpoint are the SL-30 and SL-40.
Why would you want to program your flight plan in the 430 though,
when the chelton has it's own flight planning system in it.
If you own a Chelton, you'll probably do it there anyway.
As for the GPS driving the Chelton, I am not sure how to put this
in an understandable way, but I believe the GNS480 and FreeFlight
GPS can provide the necessary legal precision GPS data to the
Chelton to allow you to fly your WAAS approach. If this
is not true, then again, I would like to clarify where this
does not fit with what I was told previously. If this is not
true, it would make no sense to even add the GNS480 thinking
you get WAAS legal capability in the system...which doesn't
jibe with what was told to me earlier. But yes, it
does have it's own GPS.
>
> -This puts a single screen Chelton w/IFR GPS out the running for a
> lower cost EFIS solution for IFR.
>
Lets see if i get a respons to the point directly above this one.
>
>
> Q: Is the EIS included in the system?
>
>
>
> A: The Chelton includes an Airdata module that is essentially a EIS
> minus the engine monitor features.
>
>
>
> -Need to add the cost of an engine monitor when comparing to GRT
>
Correct, you get the GRT EIS, sold as a unit for use with the
Chelton, so you get all the necessary programming and probes to
make it all work. It's the same EIS basically that the GRT uses.
And, as a plug for Rob, he says by OSH 2005 he will have his
interface ready for interoperability with the Chelton too.
>
>
> Q: What is the difference between the FAA approved SW and the
> experimental SW?
>
>
>
> A: The FAA approved SW does not include among other things the
> enhanced 3D terrain, WSI integration, and enhanced VNAV support.
>
>
>
> -Probably no big deal since the important parts of the code are
> likely isolated branches.
>
>
Probably easier to test some of those add-ons in a non-certified
version...makes sense. I'm sure they'll show up on all models
eventually.
Thanks for bringing this thread back Robin. You bring up some
good points and concerns that are a little scary considering
you got your info from the same company I did. Now I'd like to
get further clarification so that we can know the 100% answer.
Josh, can you drop me a line after you read this?
Tim
>
>
>
> Robin Wessel
>
> RV-10, wings and fuse
>
> Tigard, OR
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DejaVu" <wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Admitting a stupid mistake - rudder pedals |
products.
Just checked the instructions and they show the doublers on the same side as
the master cylinders. A good idea to put them behind the brake pedals so
that your feet make contact with the pedals and not the doublers. I think
it's cosmetic and I'm leaving them because they're shiny!
Anh
#141
----- Original Message -----
From: "brian bollaert" <bbollaert(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Admitting a stupid mistake - rudder pedals
>
> Ha indeed i almost did that also , som a friend of mine was helping me
that
> day and said i was putting them togeather the wrong way !! (saved me )
>
> Brian B
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
> To: "RV10"
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 7:41 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Admitting a stupid mistake - rudder pedals
>
>
> >
> > If anyone else got confused by this, let me know so I don't
> > feel like such a moron....
> >
> > So, I assembled my rudder pedals, and riveted them nicely.
> > primed in between the pedal and doubler, and decided I
> > wanted nice shiny silver pedals. So, I only painted the
> > "back" side. Which side is the back??? Well, of course,
> > the rudder pedal with it's raised edges will cup your shoe
> > of course, right? NOT!! Tonight I went to actually
> > bolt in those pedals. I found that things weren't looking
> > quite right per-plans. I thought perhaps the plans were
> > off....until I looked at Randy's photos (worth a million
> > bucks if you ask me). Sure as shinola those pedals go
> > in so that they do not cup your feet....the concave side
> > goes away from your foot. The thing that really confused
> > it is that they show the doubler riveted onto what
> > seemed to be the "back" side (really the front). So, my
> > nice round-head rivets were on the back of the pedal in
> > reality, and my foot would go on the shop head. Randy
> > didn't rivet his per plans, from what I can tell. He put
> > the doubler on the concave side of the pedal. This gives
> > a smoother looking pedal since it doesn't have that ridge
> > around the doubler in view. I see no issue with this.
> > So, I drilled out each one of those rivets, and now I have
> > to rivet them and paint them before I continue again...and
> > they won't be that shiny silver anymore, but will have to
> > match my interior paint.
> >
> > Oh well. Just thought I'd bring it up so that future
> > builders don't have to make that mistake.
> >
> > Am I the only one?
> > Tim
> > --
> > Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> > Current project: Fuselage
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
>
>
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robin Wessel" <robin.wessel(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS |
Hold the phone.... Why are you referring to "into VNAV guidance
for the GPS"? Where does this come into play?? I'm not concerned
if it can take ILS glideslope data and use it for a GPS approach.
I want it to take the ILS glideslope and display it as a pair
of needles. That it will do. What it won't do is let you
fly a non-GPS overlaid approach, using the HITS boxes. i.e.
when you fly an ILS, you need to use the needles, not the
boxes. Is this your understanding, or what am I missing?
Tim-
Sorry if I was not clear in my comments about the VNAV guidance with the
Chelton. What I should have said is "VNAV guidance for the A/P." As you
know, the Digiflight A/P can only steer based on NMEA and ARINC signals not
analog +/-150mV signals. I was really hoping that the Chelton would convert
the SL30 glideslope data coming in digitally and convert it into VNAV
commands for the Digiflight. This would eliminate the need for the expensive
Sorcerer in order to get a true coupled ILS. As a credit to Peter at
Direct2avioncs, he felt that adding this capability would be something to
consider. Hopefully by the time I need to plunk down the cash, this
capability will be included.
robin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Specketer" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Panel Rib modification |
MS21042 was what I had in mind when I suggested a shorter nut to Tim.
It has the same strength but is a lot shorter. However because it is a
metal on metal lock, you should not try and remove and reuse it in
critical locations. It has a less forgiving lock than the nyloc (which
you are not supposed to reuse either, but some get away with it) The
whole key is to have at least 1 1/2 threads showing so that you have
sufficient locking.
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-10 Panel Rib modification |
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
My inspection was done by a Technical Inspector that works for the local
FSDO. He said that with AC43 the requirement is 1 thread showing outside
the nylock. I hope that helps. Have you go a copy of AC43. Mine is at
the hanger or I would look it up and get the exact wording. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of brian
bollaert
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
-->
Hi James :
an A&P mechanic from hanger next to me came over a month ago and
looked over the nuts & bolts on my -10 and pointed out that he was not
comfortable with the amount of thread that was not visable outside the
nut (makes sense to me ) so i have lengthend several at least 5 or 6
threads shoul be visable he said .
Brian B
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Ochs" <jochs(at)froody.org>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>
> Hrm. Is there a list of the locations where this is true? Or do we
need
> to check each nut against the accepted standards?
>
> Where does one get a "thinner" nut? I always thought the nuts were
> pretty standard... do we just need to use longer bolts?
>
> Thanks,
> James
>
> John W. Cox wrote:
>
> >
> >Nuts spec'ed too thick by plan, was one of the major issues found by
> >Randy's DAR in multiple locations. The change out was easy, but an
EAA
> >Tech visit along the journey is a great recommendation prior to the
> >signoff.
> >
> >John - KUAO
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> >Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 10:19 PM
> >To: RV10
> >Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
> >
> >
> >Forgot to add a couple notes to my last email:
> >
> >#1. I also did the modification to my left and right panel ribs, in
> >preparation for my Chelton system. See here for photos:
> >
> >http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050610
> >
> >
> >And, Saturday a.m. I got a great visit from Gary Specketer and his
wife.
> >
> > Gary's an RV-10 builder and EAA Technical counselor who's built a
few
> >other planes in the past. It was fantastic to have someone like him
> >come and look ove rmy work. I might be wrong, but I think the only
> >actual builder who's ever seen my plane is a buddy who's building
> >a -4, so it was great to get his stamp of approval on what I've done
> >so far. I didn't realize that the FAA looks positively at the fact
> >that you've had 3 visits from EAA Tech. counselors. In the short
time
> >he was over, I got good advice on a few issues, and he found a couple
> >of rivets that Van's spec'd too short, and nuts that were spec'd too
> >thick, not allowing enough threads to show. If you haven't looked
> >into an EAA Technical counselor visit, I'd encourage a new builder to
> >probably meet one too look at your Vertical Stab just to ease
> >your mind, and then possibly inspect at the end of your empennage,
> >and end of the wings. Since this was my first visit out of at
> >least 3 that I should try for, I'll probably do one as a pre-signoff
> >inspection, and maybe one a the time I mate up my wings. It's a
> >great and valuable service these guys are performing.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to
throw
yourself at the ground and miss. - Douglas Adams, 'The Hitchhikers Guide
to
the Galaxy'
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Chelton AF-2500 Panel |
Here is the drawing of the panel for my RV-10. I will have the panel in our
booth at Oshkosh (Building D), stop by and take a look.
I almost always fly with one of my kids/copilots so I wanted to set up the
panel so that it could be flown from both seats. The AF-1000 MFD-AirData
computer=E2=80=99s mounted next to the Chelton screens can display independent
Airspeed,
Altitude, Vertical Speed, and/or EFIS data. We are also planning on adding
the ability to display the SL30 glideslope data as two needles.
We will be showing at Oshkosh the AF-2500 Engine Monitor interface to the
Chelton System. Having all your engine data displayed on a background page
might be ok for a turbine, for a piston engine I want it visible all the time.
I can=E2=80=99t stand not being able to see all the data from one page all=20the
time,
this is why I started making the engine monitor in the first place.
Then again I am trying to sell engine monitors.
Rob Hickman
_www.Advanced-Flight-Systems.com_ (http://www.Advanced-Flight-Systems.com)
RV-10 #40204
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Chelton AF-2500 Panel |
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
Looks nice Rob. What color fiberglass did you decide on. Randy
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
RobHickman(at)aol.com
Subject: RV10-List: Chelton AF-2500 Panel
Here is the drawing of the panel for my RV-10. I will have the panel in
our booth at Oshkosh (Building D), stop by and take a look.
I almost always fly with one of my kids/copilots so I wanted to set up
the panel so that it could be flown from both seats. The AF-1000
MFD-AirData computer's mounted next to the Chelton screens can display
independent Airspeed, Altitude, Vertical Speed, and/or EFIS data. We
are also planning on adding the ability to display the SL30 glideslope
data as two needles.
We will be showing at Oshkosh the AF-2500 Engine Monitor interface to
the Chelton System. Having all your engine data displayed on a
background page might be ok for a turbine, for a piston engine I want it
visible all the time. I can't stand not being able to see all the data
from one page all the time, this is why I started making the engine
monitor in the first place.
Then again I am trying to sell engine monitors.
Rob Hickman
www.Advanced-Flight-Systems.com <http://www.Advanced-Flight-Systems.com>
RV-10 #40204
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Panel Rib modification |
Randy
The FSDO Tech Inspector is right on the money with his statement. AC
43.13-1B, Page 7-11, Paragraph 7-64 Self Locking Nuts, sub-paragraph f ,
states in part: "After the nut has been tightened, make sure the bolt or
stud has at least one thread showing past the nut." I can't imagine where
the A&P came up with a 5 thread showing requirement.
Dean Van Winkle Retired Aero Engineer
RV-9A Fuselage/Finish
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>
> My inspection was done by a Technical Inspector that works for the local
> FSDO. He said that with AC43 the requirement is 1 thread showing outside
> the nylock. I hope that helps. Have you go a copy of AC43. Mine is at
> the hanger or I would look it up and get the exact wording. Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of brian
> bollaert
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 5:52 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>
> -->
>
> Hi James :
>
> an A&P mechanic from hanger next to me came over a month ago and
> looked over the nuts & bolts on my -10 and pointed out that he was not
> comfortable with the amount of thread that was not visable outside the
> nut (makes sense to me ) so i have lengthend several at least 5 or 6
> threads shoul be visable he said .
>
> Brian B
> ----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Forsythe <matronix.rv10(at)4sythe.com> |
| Subject: | Rolling the Elevator leading edges |
When rolling the leading edges of the elevators, I follow the 1.25 inch pipe method
and the curves look good but I can never get them to curve into they're final
position. They always seem to have a gap of about 3/4 inch that I need to
pull together to rivet.
Is this OK? I can't seem to find a way to get the entire bend in there since bending
the lower portion gets in the way of bending the upper portion. Is this
tension going to cause any issues down the road?
The final result looks great but I'm just a little uneasy knowing that these were
in tension when they were riveted.
Thanks in advance to all,
Kent Forsythe
40338
Elevators
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Ochs <jochs(at)froody.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Rolling the Elevator leading edges |
I haven't done this step yet either for the rudder or the elevators, but
I did run into a similar problem when building the practice kit... what
I did is to just pull the side that was in the way out of the way so
that they laid in such a way that the one I was bending was on the
inside, then I could roll it tight and have it snap back to where it was
supposed to be, then you pull them apart to get them back in the correct
"order". It takes a little yanking on the leading edges, but if you
don't pull to hard it doesnt affect the bend or put any weird kinks in.
Not having done this in the real kit, I don't know if that will work,
but maybe that helps ;)
James
Kent Forsythe wrote:
>
>When rolling the leading edges of the elevators, I follow the 1.25 inch pipe method
and the curves look good but I can never get them to curve into they're
final position. They always seem to have a gap of about 3/4 inch that I need
to pull together to rivet.
>
>Is this OK? I can't seem to find a way to get the entire bend in there since
bending the lower portion gets in the way of bending the upper portion. Is this
tension going to cause any issues down the road?
>
>The final result looks great but I'm just a little uneasy knowing that these were
in tension when they were riveted.
>
>Thanks in advance to all,
>
>Kent Forsythe
>40338
>Elevators
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself
at the ground and miss. Douglas Adams, 'The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Rolling the Elevator leading edges |
>
>When rolling the leading edges of the elevators, I follow the 1.25 inch
>pipe method and the curves look good but I can never get them to curve into
>they're final position. They always seem to have a gap of about 3/4 inch
>that I need to pull together to rivet.
>
>Is this OK? I can't seem to find a way to get the entire bend in there
>since bending the lower portion gets in the way of bending the upper
>portion. Is this tension going to cause any issues down the road?
>
>The final result looks great but I'm just a little uneasy knowing that
>these were in tension when they were riveted.
>
>Thanks in advance to all,
>
>Kent Forsythe
>40338
>Elevators
After doing two airplane's worth of rolled leading edges, I've found that
you have to finish out the bends manually. Just get in there and work the
skins with your fingers (gloved for chafing/cut protection). Maintain the
radius of the skins so you don't crease them on the spar flange edges.
You'll probably have to "massage" them even more later on so they don't drag
on the elevator spar when you're rigging the hinges later. It's true you
want to avoid a significant amount of (shear) preload on the rivets, but
it's not as bad as the same loading in tension. So, that being said, get
them bent down so you can get cleco's into the holes without undue force
required and it will be fine. I know I have some significant preload on my
-8 tail surfaces, due to just not knowing any better. They show zero signs
of problems and every rivet is perfectly in place just like the day they
were installed.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rolling the Elevator leading edges |
Hi Kent,
That's certainly the way mine went together. I don't think you need
to worry about the tension, but be sure to get good compression on
the skins when pop-riveting.
I'm kit # 40304 and am in the early steps of the tail cone at 300
hours total time. How many hours have you put in?
Jeff Carpenter
On Jun 14, 2005, at 11:23 AM, Kent Forsythe wrote:
>
>
> When rolling the leading edges of the elevators, I follow the 1.25
> inch pipe method and the curves look good but I can never get them
> to curve into they're final position. They always seem to have a
> gap of about 3/4 inch that I need to pull together to rivet.
>
> Is this OK? I can't seem to find a way to get the entire bend in
> there since bending the lower portion gets in the way of bending
> the upper portion. Is this tension going to cause any issues down
> the road?
>
> The final result looks great but I'm just a little uneasy knowing
> that these were in tension when they were riveted.
>
> Thanks in advance to all,
>
> Kent Forsythe
> 40338
> Elevators
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rolling the Elevator leading edges |
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
That seems about the same amount I had to pull together. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kent Forsythe
Subject: RV10-List: Rolling the Elevator leading edges
-->
When rolling the leading edges of the elevators, I follow the 1.25 inch
pipe method and the curves look good but I can never get them to curve
into they're final position. They always seem to have a gap of about
3/4 inch that I need to pull together to rivet.
Is this OK? I can't seem to find a way to get the entire bend in there
since bending the lower portion gets in the way of bending the upper
portion. Is this tension going to cause any issues down the road?
The final result looks great but I'm just a little uneasy knowing that
these were in tension when they were riveted.
Thanks in advance to all,
Kent Forsythe
40338
Elevators
________________________________________________________________________________
;
| From: | Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Andair Fuel Selector |
What vendors sell Andair fuel selectors besides Wicks? Are other folks sticking
w/ Vans fuel pumps?
Thanks,
Jay
'11
__________________________________
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Andair Fuel Selector |
I JUST went through this myself...here's what I found.
(All of this applies only to the IO-540)
You want the Andair FS20x3
You can order direct from Andair online:
http://www.andair.co.uk/
This method allows you to customize the valve to suit
yourself.
You can get the valve from Wicks, but, it won't fit in
your -10. It has MALE Flare fittings on all 3 ports.
The LEFT port needs to be either 1/4" NPT and you stick
a 1/4" NPT to 3/8" flare elbow on it, or you could get the
banjo fitting on the left side. The bottom fitting is
probably easiest to just get a Male 3/8" flare, but
if you want a different type, you could do that.
The Right tank could be either 3/8" flare or 1/4" NPT.
Wicks does list the Banjo fitting as an option, but they
didn't have one in stock for me yesterday.
You can get the valve from Van's
<http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1118782879-264-387&browse=airframe&product=fuel-selector-valve>
That valve comes with 1/4" NPT on the LEFT and RIGHT, but a 3/8" male
flare on the bottom. You will need 2 elbows for this valve.
I did not find the valve at Aircraft Spruce, although I
didn't call the to request that they dig around and see
if they offer it. They did have the Banjo fitting in
stock that I needed to fix my valve from Wicks. The fittings
come of using a Torx #9 screwdriver. The screws are straked
on during assembly, so you need to be careful and not strip
the screws. I used a tiny tiny dremel bit to remove the
super small strake bump, then the screws came out fine.
My valve had all ports 3/8" Male Flare. I replaced the
LEFT side port with the 3/8" Flare Banjo fitting (coming
in tomorrow's FedEx).
So my suggestion is to buy the valve from Van's at this
point, as the cheapest solution. Bob Condrey got his
mounted OK with clearance, but Ray Doerr said his left
fitting had too little clearance, so he located a
reduced width Elbow fitting to put in the left port.
Probably the simplest to actually install will be my
banjo fitting, but you'll spend an extra $55 for that.
As for ordering direct, if you have a couple weeks before
you need the valve, I found that the current exchange rate
is such that it really doesn't cost much different to
order from them, and since you can customize your fittings
that way, it seems like a great way to go.
I got the fuel *pump* from Van's. Don't know what the
average builder is doing, but it was my easiest option.
As for the valves, there's probably going to be a good
mix of both styles among builders.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Jay Brinkmeyer wrote:
>
> What vendors sell Andair fuel selectors besides Wicks? Are other folks sticking
> w/ Vans fuel pumps?
>
> Thanks,
> Jay
> '11
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rolling the Elevator leading edges |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
I went with a 1" piece of PVC that I match drilled and clecoed on. This
allowed me to get a little more crank on the pipe and the cleco's do a
better job than duct tape at holding it together.
I just need to hang the trim tabs yet and my elevators are done. Maybe
2 hours. This will put me right around 115 hours total time.
Incidentally, putting proseal in the Texas sun will cure it in about 2
hours. Figured it would help but didn't expect that. Then again it was
clear and 97 today.
Michael Sausen
-10 #40352
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Carpenter
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rolling the Elevator leading edges
Hi Kent,
That's certainly the way mine went together. I don't think you need to
worry about the tension, but be sure to get good compression on the
skins when pop-riveting.
I'm kit # 40304 and am in the early steps of the tail cone at 300 hours
total time. How many hours have you put in?
Jeff Carpenter
On Jun 14, 2005, at 11:23 AM, Kent Forsythe wrote:
>
>
> When rolling the leading edges of the elevators, I follow the 1.25
> inch pipe method and the curves look good but I can never get them
> to curve into they're final position. They always seem to have a
> gap of about 3/4 inch that I need to pull together to rivet.
>
> Is this OK? I can't seem to find a way to get the entire bend in
> there since bending the lower portion gets in the way of bending
> the upper portion. Is this tension going to cause any issues down
> the road?
>
> The final result looks great but I'm just a little uneasy knowing
> that these were in tension when they were riveted.
>
> Thanks in advance to all,
>
> Kent Forsythe
> 40338
> Elevators
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Andair Fuel Selector |
| From: | "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)mail.sprint.com> |
Van's has the one that I feel will work the best. The issue on the 10
is that if you mount it in the same place as Van's placed there standard
valve and you orient it such that left tank position faces directly left
and right faces right, then the left fuel input is directly against the
left side of the tunnel side which is right where the rudder cable runs
up as well. A standard 90 fitting here is right tight against the
tunnel side if the valve in centered left to right on the tunnel cover.
I managed to fine a bunch of 90 degree fittings at the local aircraft
hardware supply shop (B & B Aircraft in Garner Kanssas where I live)
that were used on prop goveners because of their close quarters to the
firewall. These 90's are plated brass and are about 1/4" shorted than
the standard aluminum 90's. I am than going to tap the Andair 1/4"
socket a little deeper with a 1/4" NPT tap so the threads of this new
fitting will engage the socket more to allow even better clearance. I
will let you know how it goes tomorrow.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250 (Finishing fuel line)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay
Brinkmeyer
Subject: RV10-List: Andair Fuel Selector
What vendors sell Andair fuel selectors besides Wicks? Are other folks
sticking
w/ Vans fuel pumps?
Thanks,
Jay
'11
__________________________________
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris , Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Panel Rib modification |
5 threads means the bolt is toooooo long
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>
> Randy
>
> The FSDO Tech Inspector is right on the money with his statement. AC
> 43.13-1B, Page 7-11, Paragraph 7-64 Self Locking Nuts, sub-paragraph f ,
> states in part: "After the nut has been tightened, make sure the bolt or
> stud has at least one thread showing past the nut." I can't imagine where
> the A&P came up with a 5 thread showing requirement.
>
> Dean Van Winkle Retired Aero Engineer
> RV-9A Fuselage/Finish
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:28 AM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>
>
>>
>> My inspection was done by a Technical Inspector that works for the local
>> FSDO. He said that with AC43 the requirement is 1 thread showing outside
>> the nylock. I hope that helps. Have you go a copy of AC43. Mine is at
>> the hanger or I would look it up and get the exact wording. Randy
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of brian
>> bollaert
>> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 5:52 PM
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>>
>> -->
>>
>> Hi James :
>>
>> an A&P mechanic from hanger next to me came over a month ago and
>> looked over the nuts & bolts on my -10 and pointed out that he was not
>> comfortable with the amount of thread that was not visable outside the
>> nut (makes sense to me ) so i have lengthend several at least 5 or 6
>> threads shoul be visable he said .
>>
>> Brian B
>> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Wade <jwadejr(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Rolling the Elevator leading edges |
This is my first post, not sure how this works. I am about finished with the
empenage. Started rolling my elevators today. Like the idea of drilling the
pvc. I was using pvc for the pipe. I built my tail cone along with the other
parts. 382 Hours so far.
Jim Wade
RV-10 40383
-------Original Message-------
From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
Date: 06/14/05 16:31:27
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rolling the Elevator leading edges
I went with a 1" piece of PVC that I match drilled and clecoed on. This
allowed me to get a little more crank on the pipe and the cleco's do a
better job than duct tape at holding it together.
I just need to hang the trim tabs yet and my elevators are done. Maybe
2 hours. This will put me right around 115 hours total time.
Incidentally, putting proseal in the Texas sun will cure it in about 2
hours. Figured it would help but didn't expect that. Then again it was
clear and 97 today.
Michael Sausen
-10 #40352
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Carpenter
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rolling the Elevator leading edges
Hi Kent,
That's certainly the way mine went together. I don't think you need to
worry about the tension, but be sure to get good compression on the
skins when pop-riveting.
I'm kit # 40304 and am in the early steps of the tail cone at 300 hours
total time. How many hours have you put in?
Jeff Carpenter
On Jun 14, 2005, at 11:23 AM, Kent Forsythe wrote:
>
>
> When rolling the leading edges of the elevators, I follow the 1.25
> inch pipe method and the curves look good but I can never get them
> to curve into they're final position. They always seem to have a
> gap of about 3/4 inch that I need to pull together to rivet.
>
> Is this OK? I can't seem to find a way to get the entire bend in
> there since bending the lower portion gets in the way of bending
> the upper portion. Is this tension going to cause any issues down
> the road?
>
> The final result looks great but I'm just a little uneasy knowing
> that these were in tension when they were riveted.
>
> Thanks in advance to all,
>
> Kent Forsythe
> 40338
> Elevators
>
>
====================================
====================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Wade <jwadejr(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Panel Rib modification |
One to Three max!!!!
Jim
-------Original Message-------
From: Chris , Susie McGough
Date: 06/14/05 16:34:45
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
com>
5 threads means the bolt is toooooo long
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>
> Randy
>
> The FSDO Tech Inspector is right on the money with his statement. AC
> 43.13-1B, Page 7-11, Paragraph 7-64 Self Locking Nuts, sub-paragraph f ,
> states in part: "After the nut has been tightened, make sure the bolt or
> stud has at least one thread showing past the nut." I can't imagine where
> the A&P came up with a 5 thread showing requirement.
>
> Dean Van Winkle Retired Aero Engineer
> RV-9A Fuselage/Finish
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:28 AM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>
>
>>
>> My inspection was done by a Technical Inspector that works for the local
>> FSDO. He said that with AC43 the requirement is 1 thread showing outside
>> the nylock. I hope that helps. Have you go a copy of AC43. Mine is at
>> the hanger or I would look it up and get the exact wording. Randy
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of brian
>> bollaert
>> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 5:52 PM
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>>
>> -->
>>
>> Hi James :
>>
>> an A&P mechanic from hanger next to me came over a month ago and
>> looked over the nuts & bolts on my -10 and pointed out that he was not
>> comfortable with the amount of thread that was not visable outside the
>> nut (makes sense to me ) so i have lengthend several at least 5 or 6
>> threads shoul be visable he said .
>>
>> Brian B
>> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Thyssen <jump2(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Panel Rib modification |
Well, just think about it, what good is the 4-5 threads doing past the nut. Do
they stop anything, are they holding anything. So all you need is one thread that
shows you, you are all the way through the nut and it is holding all it can.
pat
"Chris , Susie McGough" wrote:
5 threads means the bolt is toooooo long
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean"
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>
> Randy
>
> The FSDO Tech Inspector is right on the money with his statement. AC
> 43.13-1B, Page 7-11, Paragraph 7-64 Self Locking Nuts, sub-paragraph f ,
> states in part: "After the nut has been tightened, make sure the bolt or
> stud has at least one thread showing past the nut." I can't imagine where
> the A&P came up with a 5 thread showing requirement.
>
> Dean Van Winkle Retired Aero Engineer
> RV-9A Fuselage/Finish
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Randy DeBauw"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:28 AM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>
>
>>
>> My inspection was done by a Technical Inspector that works for the local
>> FSDO. He said that with AC43 the requirement is 1 thread showing outside
>> the nylock. I hope that helps. Have you go a copy of AC43. Mine is at
>> the hanger or I would look it up and get the exact wording. Randy
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of brian
>> bollaert
>> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 5:52 PM
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>>
>> -->
>>
>> Hi James :
>>
>> an A&P mechanic from hanger next to me came over a month ago and
>> looked over the nuts & bolts on my -10 and pointed out that he was not
>> comfortable with the amount of thread that was not visable outside the
>> nut (makes sense to me ) so i have lengthend several at least 5 or 6
>> threads shoul be visable he said .
>>
>> Brian B
>> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Sponcil" <bsponcil(at)belinblank.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Eeerie Paint Coincidence!! |
report
Wow that really is a strange coincidence. Nice of him to test your scheme
isn't it? It's amazing how many 10s are already flying or near flying
considering it's only been 2 years since the model was introduced.....
-Brian
Iowa City, IA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Eeerie Paint Coincidence!!
> Ok, this one caught me off guard for sure!!! Kevin, another
> RV-10 builder, pointed me to this photo. Notice that my
> N-Number is nearly identical (2 end character difference),
> and check out the paint similarity. I love this guy's
> paint job. I don't know who's -10 this is, but it
> sure is pretty. I guess I should feel very good about my
> overall paint scheme.....especially if other people think
> along those lines too. Amazing that both my wife and whoever
> thought up his design came to very similar design schemes.
>
> Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Sponcil" <bsponcil(at)belinblank.org> |
| Subject: | Re: IO VS O-540s |
report
I'm leaning towards the 0-540 B3B4 235HP specifically because of the lower
compression pistons and potential use of 87 octane auto fuel. You're only
giving up 15HP and gaining about $1/hr in costs. Just my $.02
-Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RV10-List: IO VS O-540s
>
> I searched the archives but couldn't find a specific discussion on this,
> so
> I apologize if it's redundant. I'm trying to decide on an O-540 vs IO-540
> for my RV-10. Some thoughts I had were:
>
> Pluses for the IO-540:
> No icing problems
> More even burn between cylinders
>
> Pluses for the O-540
> Cheaper to overhaul the fuel system
> Lower pressure aux fuel pump (ie much cheaper)
> Potential to use auto fuel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | RV-10 Panel Rib modification |
Concur, in fact if you have too many threads showing you probably have run
out of threads on the inside of the nut and won't have the gripping power
you're expecting.
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris , Susie
McGough
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
5 threads means the bolt is toooooo long
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>
> Randy
>
> The FSDO Tech Inspector is right on the money with his statement. AC
> 43.13-1B, Page 7-11, Paragraph 7-64 Self Locking Nuts, sub-paragraph f ,
> states in part: "After the nut has been tightened, make sure the bolt or
> stud has at least one thread showing past the nut." I can't imagine where
> the A&P came up with a 5 thread showing requirement.
>
> Dean Van Winkle Retired Aero Engineer
> RV-9A Fuselage/Finish
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:28 AM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>
>
>>
>> My inspection was done by a Technical Inspector that works for the local
>> FSDO. He said that with AC43 the requirement is 1 thread showing outside
>> the nylock. I hope that helps. Have you go a copy of AC43. Mine is at
>> the hanger or I would look it up and get the exact wording. Randy
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of brian
>> bollaert
>> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 5:52 PM
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>>
>> -->
>>
>> Hi James :
>>
>> an A&P mechanic from hanger next to me came over a month ago and
>> looked over the nuts & bolts on my -10 and pointed out that he was not
>> comfortable with the amount of thread that was not visable outside the
>> nut (makes sense to me ) so i have lengthend several at least 5 or 6
>> threads shoul be visable he said .
>>
>> Brian B
>> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
| Subject: | RV-10 Panel Rib modification |
I don't understand the thing about not having too many threads showing. It
certainly doesn't hurt to have too much thread showing as long as your nut
isn't bottoming out on the end of the threads. In fact, if the nut starts
to work loose it will have further to go before coming off with more threads
showing. I definitely understand why you want to have at least one thread
showing, but is there any rule on having too much showing or is that just
commong practice, and am I missing something on why that should be bad? I
would think you would be stronger not having any threads within the parts
that are being bolted together, and have the washer space the nut just
beyond the end of the threads, no matter how many threads are showing.
Again, I am not an engineer or anything, but I think my accounting
background should teach me a lot about structural integrity of bolts and
nuts.OK, maybe not, but it seems like common sense.
N256H #40241
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Thyssen
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
Well, just think about it, what good is the 4-5 threads doing past the nut.
Do they stop anything, are they holding anything. So all you need is one
thread that shows you, you are all the way through the nut and it is holding
all it can.
pat
"Chris , Susie McGough" wrote:
5 threads means the bolt is toooooo long
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean"
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>
> Randy
>
> The FSDO Tech Inspector is right on the money with his statement. AC
> 43.13-1B, Page 7-11, Paragraph 7-64 Self Locking Nuts, sub-paragraph f ,
> states in part: "After the nut has been tightened, make sure the bolt or
> stud has at least one thread showing past the nut." I can't imagine where
> the A&P came up with a 5 thread showing requirement.
>
> Dean Van Winkle Retired Aero Engineer
> RV-9A Fuselage/Finish
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Randy DeBauw"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:28 AM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>
>
>>
>> My inspection was done by a Technical Inspector that works for the local
>> FSDO. He said that with AC43 the requirement is 1 thread showing outside
>> the nylock. I hope that helps. Have you go a copy of AC43. Mine is at
>> the hanger or I would look it up and get the exact wording. Randy
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of brian
>> bollaert
>> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 5:52 PM
>> To: the
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS |
Today I spent a little bit of time talking to TruTrak, Direct2Avionics,
and another RV-10 builder/Chelton owner. I did get some great
clarification into this issue that actually helps verify the paragraph
below by Robin.
Here's the deal...
Normally, autopilot commands would be put out as +/- 150 mV
signals (left/right/up/down...that sort of thing) to command
the autopilot. As we know, the TruTrak Digiflight II VSGV is
digital only, so it does not have these inputs. The Sorcerer
DOES have these inputs. The SL-30 talks to the Chelton
using RS232 Serial data, rather than these +/- 150mv signals.
The Chelton still receives the proper data to draw the needle
display on your Chelton screens (any of them), so you still
have a great CDI indicator. The Chelton can also fly an
ILS approach, as Josh's post mentions. Here's why...
It's not that the Chelton interprets the RS232 and feeds
+/- 150 mV signals to the autopilot. The Chelton has the
approach database in it with the synthetic vision HITS
approaches. They're displayed on-screen using GPS. You
load the ILS, and the Chelton will fly your Digiflight II
VSGV including the vertical guidance for the approach, controlling
your autopilot right down the approach, to ATP standards.
Simultaneously, you're displaying the CDI needles from the
localizer on the screen. In the event of a discrepency, you're
supposed to fly the approach to the CDI needles, not the HITS.
Most of the time, they will match up great. If you ever see
that they don't, you would need to hand-fly that approach.
Since you display it all on the Chelton, there is no big
issue with that....you're flying the GPS derived approach, on
a real ILS approach, but you're monitoring those needles the
whole time...so you can legally fly the approach. All that's
lacking is a +/- 150mV CONVERSION to Digital contol for the
autopilot....so in effect, you aren't getting a direct
ILS localizer/Glideslope control to your autopilot....you're
getting the display, but the control is done on GPS data.
This whole thing isn't really a Chelton issue, although they
could maybe add that functionality and it would be another
big plus.
The issue is that the buyer has a Digiflight II VSGV with no
+/- 150mV inputs.
If the buyer buys a Sorcerer, you can now fly directly
input +/- 150mV signals that are produced by your SL-30
or other Nav radio. The Sorcerer has this ability.
But, in order to do this, you'll want to install a
source select switch on your Autopilot....so you can choose
if you want to fly it from the SL-30 or the Chelton.
(it may be that you can select the source from the buttons
on the sorcerer...I'm not sure on that one yet).
At this point, your Chelton is now nothing more than a CDI
for the approach (along with it's other functions). Your
radio and autopilot are directly flying the glideslope
and approach. I do agree that this is nice capability, but
given the performance and capability of the Chelton, I
would really question the added value.....because the
Sorcerer will cost you over $3,000 more....all while causing
you to NOT get the benefit you could be getting out of
your Chelton's awesome flight planning and HITS.
You Might say "what if my Chelton dies", but remember that
you have 2 or more screens, and they're independently capable
of displaying that CDI. You can lose AHRS, and still show
those needles.
In my implementation, I still plan to connect the Autopilot
to my Radios with a source select switch, Chelton or GNS480.
I won't have an external CDI, because I'm comfortable with
trusting the Chelton CDI....however, if someone wanted to
add a separate CDI, then you should be able to fly an
approach using the GNS480 coupled directly to the DFIIVSGV,
using the external CDI for display, and lose the entire
Chelton system. I do see from the install manual that hooking
a GNS480 to a DFIIVSGV requires hooking up both Serial and
AIRINC 429 lines, but I can't tell you for sure if this means
the GNS480 can control the vertical navigation of the
DFIIVSGV. I'm thinking yes, because it's listed as a normally
supported feature of that AP, but I'll talk to TruTrak to
verify that one.
As for the functionality being integrated into the Chelton
at a later date to actually control the autopilot based on
the ILS signalling instead of it's internal GPS....Robin said
he thought the only way it would work in the future would
be after a software upgrade and with the Sorcerer. My take
is a bit different. I don't think I'd hold my breath for
+/- 150mV signalling OUT of the Chelton....because that
would be software AND hardware changes. My *guess* is
that IF this is ever implemented, it would work with the DFIIVSGV
because they would just use the signal they get that
shows the needles on screen and process that data and output
it digitally....that way it doesn't require a hardware upgrade.
So I'd think that you really just need to look at how bad
you think you need that sorcerer TODAY and make the choice.
If you'll use it today, great, but I doubt you'll have any
*increased* need tomorrow.
So, I was getting a bit worried when I saw the thread
reappear with what was seemingly conflicting information.
As it turned out, the old info still applied, just not in the
way that I thought exactly. If you're comfortable allowing
the Chelton's synthetic vision GPS enabled approach data to
fly your ILS, all the while monitoring your CDI needles on
screen, coupled to your DFIIVSGV, then you're fine. If your
needles don't match the HITS, you do an AP disconnect and
hand fly it the rest of the way. Since it would be crazy to
just let your autopilot fly an approach without monitoring
it, I don't see this as a bad trade-off. I'm not likely
to be too interested in the alternative.....turn off the
approach on the chelton, load the approach on the GNS480
and fly it on the GNS480, without using the Chelton for
more than a CDI display....that would be my Emergency
mode of operation.
Hopefully that clarifies, instead of muddies the info.
The hardest thing about this Avionics stuff is getting all
the proper info compiled.
Oh, and I opened my SL-30 install manual today. Turns out
that you can kind of get a feel for some of these connections
if you dig through the manual...who woulda thunk it. ;)
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Robin Wessel wrote:
> * *
>
> *Hold the phone.... Why are you referring to "into VNAV guidance*
> *for the GPS"? Where does this come into play?? I'm not concerned*
> *if it can take ILS glideslope data and use it for a GPS approach.*
> *I want it to take the ILS glideslope and display it as a pair*
> *of needles. That it will do. What it won't do is let you*
> *fly a non-GPS overlaid approach, using the HITS boxes. i.e.*
> *when you fly an ILS, you need to use the needles, not the*
> *boxes. Is this your understanding, or what am I missing?*
>
> Tim-
>
> Sorry if I was not clear in my comments about the VNAV guidance with the
> Chelton. What I should have said is VNAV guidance for the A/P. As
> you know, the Digiflight A/P can only steer based on NMEA and ARINC
> signals not analog +/-150mV signals. I was really hoping that the
> Chelton would convert the SL30 glideslope data coming in digitally and
> convert it into VNAV commands for the Digiflight. This would eliminate
> the need for the expensive Sorcerer in order to get a true coupled ILS.
> As a credit to Peter at Direct2avioncs, he felt that adding this
> capability would be something to consider. Hopefully by the time I need
> to plunk down the cash, this capability will be included.
>
>
>
> robin
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rolling the Elevator leading edges |
For my own sanity, I'm going to assume that you and I either track
time differently or that you've had some help. I may not be blazing,
but I can't imagine doing what I've done in about 1/3rd the time.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
300 hours, about 5 of them on the tail cone.
On Jun 14, 2005, at 2:15 PM, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> I went with a 1" piece of PVC that I match drilled and clecoed on.
> This
> allowed me to get a little more crank on the pipe and the cleco's do a
> better job than duct tape at holding it together.
>
> I just need to hang the trim tabs yet and my elevators are done.
> Maybe
> 2 hours. This will put me right around 115 hours total time.
> Incidentally, putting proseal in the Texas sun will cure it in about 2
> hours. Figured it would help but didn't expect that. Then again
> it was
> clear and 97 today.
>
> Michael Sausen
> -10 #40352
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
> Carpenter
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 2:11 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rolling the Elevator leading edges
>
>
>
> Hi Kent,
>
> That's certainly the way mine went together. I don't think you
> need to
> worry about the tension, but be sure to get good compression on the
> skins when pop-riveting.
>
> I'm kit # 40304 and am in the early steps of the tail cone at 300
> hours
> total time. How many hours have you put in?
>
> Jeff Carpenter
>
>
> On Jun 14, 2005, at 11:23 AM, Kent Forsythe wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>> When rolling the leading edges of the elevators, I follow the 1.25
>> inch pipe method and the curves look good but I can never get them
>> to curve into they're final position. They always seem to have a
>> gap of about 3/4 inch that I need to pull together to rivet.
>>
>> Is this OK? I can't seem to find a way to get the entire bend in
>> there since bending the lower portion gets in the way of bending
>> the upper portion. Is this tension going to cause any issues down
>> the road?
>>
>> The final result looks great but I'm just a little uneasy knowing
>> that these were in tension when they were riveted.
>>
>> Thanks in advance to all,
>>
>> Kent Forsythe
>> 40338
>> Elevators
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ====================================
> ====================================
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Rolling the Elevator leading edges |
Your on the right track, it takes a little effort to get them to pull together.
Roll a little at a time until they get close, I settled at 1/2" apart. It did
take some muscle on the pipe to get that nice tight curl. I moved the pipe down
the skin toward the spar and curled twice, first the edge then mid way below
to curl the below that to get them close.
Don't forget to get that little bend on the edge of the skin to help hold it/make
it look tight when riveted. I use Cleaveland's vise grip edge roller with pretty
good success. Several places you can apply this tool to get a nice tight
edge on overlapping joints, just don't over do it and stretch the metal. I hear
Averys wheel works good too.
Rick S.
40185
Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS |
| From: | "Droopy Erickson" <Droopy(at)ericksonjc.com> |
Tim,
Great research. I know you may think you're wasting bandwidth, but this
has been one of the best glass avionics discussions I've seen here yet.
Just had one thing to add to everything below. The GNS480 has the
ability to display a full compass rose CDI on screen. So even if the
Chelton frys itself, you still have full up backup CDI display...
John
#40208
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS
Today I spent a little bit of time talking to TruTrak, Direct2Avionics,
and another RV-10 builder/Chelton owner. I did get some great
clarification into this issue that actually helps verify the paragraph
below by Robin.
Here's the deal...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil White" <philwhite9(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Valve & Handle |
I guess no one else has looked over Van's fuel valve and seen the
solution that appears obvious to me.
1. I moved the valve lower to ensure priming the fuel pumps, as I will
be running EFI on an auto engine.
2. Didn't want to criss-cross the fuel lines to the pump, so I ran them
right to right, left to left (dunno why I feel it oughta be that way,
but I do).
3. Now you perceive my handle will work backwards, and you would be
right!, except I will grind off the small pointer nub on the front end,
so the bulk of the handle will be the pointer. Push the handle to the
right for the right fuel tank.
4. Handle doesn't look elegant, but the can of Dip-It tool handle
coating I bought at the hardware store will coat it with a soft feeling,
bright red rubbery coating that will improve both feel and looks, I hope.
One cheap builder's solution.
Phil White #40220 Willowbrook, IL (fuse about 60% done, on hold for
move to aero-park in July)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | RV-10 Panel Rib modification |
Just my thoughts, but you're right about the only problem with too many
threads is bottoming out. The thing is, by the time you get 5+ threads
showing you probably are bottomed out and if the fit is close you might not
be aware that you have run out of threads and not really cinched the nut
down on the material.
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
I don't understand the thing about not having too many threads showing. It
certainly doesn't hurt to have too much thread showing as long as your nut
isn't bottoming out on the end of the threads. In fact, if the nut starts
to work loose it will have further to go before coming off with more threads
showing. I definitely understand why you want to have at least one thread
showing, but is there any rule on having too much showing or is that just
commong practice, and am I missing something on why that should be bad? I
would think you would be stronger not having any threads within the parts
that are being bolted together, and have the washer space the nut just
beyond the end of the threads, no matter how many threads are showing.
Again, I am not an engineer or anything, but I think my accounting
background should teach me a lot about structural integrity of bolts and
nuts.OK, maybe not, but it seems like common sense.
N256H #40241
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Thyssen
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
Well, just think about it, what good is the 4-5 threads doing past the nut.
Do they stop anything, are they holding anything. So all you need is one
thread that shows you, you are all the way through the nut and it is holding
all it can.
pat
"Chris , Susie McGough" wrote:
5 threads means the bolt is toooooo long
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean"
To:
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>
> Randy
>
> The FSDO Tech Inspector is right on the money with his statement. AC
> 43.13-1B, Page 7-11, Paragraph 7-64 Self Locking Nuts, sub-paragraph f ,
> states in part: "After the nut has been tightened, make sure the bolt or
> stud has at least one thread showing past the nut." I can't imagine where
> the A&P came up with a 5 thread showing requirement.
>
> Dean Van Winkle Retired Aero Engineer
> RV-9A Fuselage/Finish
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Randy DeBauw"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:28 AM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
>
>
>>
>> My inspection was done by a Technical Inspector that works for the local
>> FSDO. He said that with AC43 the requirement is 1 thread showing outside
>> the nylock. I hope that helps. Have you go a copy of AC43. Mine is at
>> the hanger or I would look it up and get the exact wording. Randy
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of brian
>> bollaert
>> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 5:52 PM
>> To: the
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net> |
Brian,
I'm still waffling on the engine but would also like to save money.
Based on what I've seen, the savings is more like $1 per gallon not per
hour, more like $12+/hr savings.
One note though, I spoke to Vans about engines and they recommend a 4 as the
second character (like C4B5) as that ensures the counterweights for a
compact Hartzel hub. I don't know what a 3 does for you on the B3B4 or the
implications of a MT prop for those going that route.
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sponcil
Subject: Re: RV10-List: IO VS O-540s
I'm leaning towards the 0-540 B3B4 235HP specifically because of the lower
compression pistons and potential use of 87 octane auto fuel. You're only
giving up 15HP and gaining about $1/hr in costs. Just my $.02
-Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RV10-List: IO VS O-540s
>
> I searched the archives but couldn't find a specific discussion on this,
> so
> I apologize if it's redundant. I'm trying to decide on an O-540 vs IO-540
> for my RV-10. Some thoughts I had were:
>
> Pluses for the IO-540:
> No icing problems
> More even burn between cylinders
>
> Pluses for the O-540
> Cheaper to overhaul the fuel system
> Lower pressure aux fuel pump (ie much cheaper)
> Potential to use auto fuel
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rolling the Elevator leading edges |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
I do seem to be a bit faster than most builders. When I took the EAA RV class
back in Jan, I was the first one done (by quite a bit) and the instructor said
he was impressed with the work (not even close to trying to toot my own horn,
he hasn't seen some of my more recent work).
I credit a lot of the time saving to having a large shop that let's me spread
out the work and not have to move stuff around a lot. I have about 6 2x6 work
benches and 2 3x8 benches. The Burraway and DRDT-2 C frame also make a huge
difference. Lastly, I'm sticking with Alodine and not priming. I use a 40 Gal
Rubbermaid garbage bin to hose down stuff with Alumiprep which allows me to
reclaim the acid also. My Alodine is premixed in another 40 gal Rubbermaid,
of which I have about 25gal mixed. I keep it next to the crate my spars came
in and I can very quickly cut a piece of plastic drop cloth to line it with and
use an aquarium pump to fill it and a hole in the bottom to drain straight back
into the garbage can ala Tim's method. This works so well that I can go from
cleaning the parts to acid wash and alodine in about 10 minutes. I think
I'm going to throw the big skins crate up and start doing the skins also.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rolling the Elevator leading edges
For my own sanity, I'm going to assume that you and I either track time differently
or that you've had some help. I may not be blazing, but I can't imagine
doing what I've done in about 1/3rd the time.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
300 hours, about 5 of them on the tail cone.
On Jun 14, 2005, at 2:15 PM, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> I went with a 1" piece of PVC that I match drilled and clecoed on.
> This
> allowed me to get a little more crank on the pipe and the cleco's do a
> better job than duct tape at holding it together.
>
> I just need to hang the trim tabs yet and my elevators are done.
> Maybe
> 2 hours. This will put me right around 115 hours total time.
> Incidentally, putting proseal in the Texas sun will cure it in about 2
> hours. Figured it would help but didn't expect that. Then again it
> was clear and 97 today.
>
> Michael Sausen
> -10 #40352
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
> Carpenter
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 2:11 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rolling the Elevator leading edges
>
>
>
> Hi Kent,
>
> That's certainly the way mine went together. I don't think you
> need to
> worry about the tension, but be sure to get good compression on the
> skins when pop-riveting.
>
> I'm kit # 40304 and am in the early steps of the tail cone at 300
> hours
> total time. How many hours have you put in?
>
> Jeff Carpenter
>
>
> On Jun 14, 2005, at 11:23 AM, Kent Forsythe wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>> When rolling the leading edges of the elevators, I follow the 1.25
>> inch pipe method and the curves look good but I can never get them
>> to curve into they're final position. They always seem to have a
>> gap of about 3/4 inch that I need to pull together to rivet.
>>
>> Is this OK? I can't seem to find a way to get the entire bend in
>> there since bending the lower portion gets in the way of bending
>> the upper portion. Is this tension going to cause any issues down
>> the road?
>>
>> The final result looks great but I'm just a little uneasy knowing
>> that these were in tension when they were riveted.
>>
>> Thanks in advance to all,
>>
>> Kent Forsythe
>> 40338
>> Elevators
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
;
| From: | Robert <retiredpilot03-serv(at)yahoo.com> |
I received an interesting call today from Barbara
at Van's. It seems that the folks in the
Philipines are producing fuselages but not too
many wings. She wanted to know if I wanted to go
ahead and have the fuselage shipped. Since I am
in the processing of riveting the tail cone and
the rest of the QB kit wasn't supposed to be
shipped until August I thought I would go ahead
and have it shipped :-)
I asked her if they didn't quite get it in the
Philipines that there needed to be 2 wings with
every fuselage. She laughed and said maybe they
would catch on soon.
Oh well I'm happy to be getting the fuse now so
the project won't be delayed.
Robert Vinroot
N843RV #40343
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Byron Gillespie" <bgill1(at)charter.net> |
That pretty well matches up with the conversation I had today. I
received the call yesterday that my QB wings were ready to ship. I am
going QB wings and std fuselage and am only about 20% complete. When I
checked back today, I asked if there was a wait on the wings and she
said that they had several QB fuselage kits that were without wings so I
opted to let someone else have the wings and I'll hold off till the
fall. No since in letting them sit in the crate when someone else could
be doing something with them. Save the cash balance and continue to
dimple away.....
Byron
Deep in the std fus..#40253
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Subject: RV10-List: QB fuselage
I received an interesting call today from Barbara
at Van's. It seems that the folks in the
Philipines are producing fuselages but not too
many wings. She wanted to know if I wanted to go
ahead and have the fuselage shipped. Since I am
in the processing of riveting the tail cone and
the rest of the QB kit wasn't supposed to be
shipped until August I thought I would go ahead
and have it shipped :-)
I asked her if they didn't quite get it in the
Philipines that there needed to be 2 wings with
every fuselage. She laughed and said maybe they
would catch on soon.
Oh well I'm happy to be getting the fuse now so
the project won't be delayed.
Robert Vinroot
N843RV #40343
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer(at)verizon.net> |
Wondering if any one has some thoughts on whether to use a gascolator or not on
the IO-540 version. I have had a nice Andaire one for some time but not sure
if I really need it. I noticed it is part of the FWF kit, But when I talked to
the Van's folks they didn't think it was necessary and couldn't even remember
if they put one on their 10. In addition to that, there are no mention of it
in the FWF plans. Ideas/ thoughts appreciated. Thx. Mark (40016)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
Thats funny. I also spoke with Barbara today. When I ordered my emp I
also ordered the QB wings and fuselage back in March (builder 40356).
They were both supposed to ship in August, but both the wings and fuse
are ready to ship now. I only have the emp attach left to compete. I
need to make room for some aircraft parts.
Larry Rosen
#40356
QB wings and Fuselage ready to ship
Robert wrote:
>
>I received an interesting call today from Barbara
>at Van's. It seems that the folks in the
>Philipines are producing fuselages but not too
>many wings. She wanted to know if I wanted to go
>ahead and have the fuselage shipped. Since I am
>in the processing of riveting the tail cone and
>the rest of the QB kit wasn't supposed to be
>shipped until August I thought I would go ahead
>and have it shipped :-)
>I asked her if they didn't quite get it in the
>Philipines that there needed to be 2 wings with
>every fuselage. She laughed and said maybe they
>would catch on soon.
>Oh well I'm happy to be getting the fuse now so
>the project won't be delayed.
>
>Robert Vinroot
>N843RV #40343
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Extras to Order with QB Wings |
My quick build wings and fuselage are ready to ship. I would like some advice
on what additional items I should add to the order. I especially wanted to get
items that would be difficult to ship via UPS. Extra rivets, bolts, nuts, washers
etc will be procured a Oshkosh. This is my list so far.
0.2 lbs of these oops rivets
NAS1097AD3-3 RIVETS (LB)
NAS1097AD3-3.5 RIVETS (LB)
NAS1097AD3-4 RIVETS (LB)
NAS1097AD3-6 RIVETS (LB)
NAS1097AD4-3.5 OOPS RIVETS (LB)
NAS1097AD4-4 OOPS RIVETS (LB)
NAS1097AD4-5 OOPS RIVETS (LB)
NAS1097AD4-6 OOPS RIVETS (LB)
100 each blind rivets
CS4-4
LP4-3
LP4-4
MK-319-BS (only 50)
Nut Plates (20 each)
K1000-3 for AN3
K1000-4 for AN4
K1100-06 counter sunk for 6-32
Extruded Angle (2 each)
AA6-063X3/4X3/4X6' ALUM ANGLE
AA6-125X1X1X6
AA6-125X3/4X3/4X6
Bent Angle (3)
AA3-032-3/x3/4x4'
Z Angle
AZ6-.063x1.125x625x18
Larry Rosen
RV10 #40356
QB wings and Fuselage shipping SOON!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Excellent -10 Picture! |
Here's a great picture from Van's Hobbs Meter off their site. Two -10s
fly from the same location on the same day! One is the "Tim Paint
Scheme Look-Alike" :)
<http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/first_flight/pair_of_tens_lg.jpg>
-Sean #40303 (ailerons - Dang, that leading edge skin is hard to cleco
on top)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com> |
| Subject: | Rattle can mystery |
Ok. I've found the reason why the SW 988 can was shooting so much primer at
my pieces that there was literally a pool of it on the cardboard. For those
who haven't yet used one, when you take off the cap, you'll find a tiny red
"cap" covering the nozzle. DON'T TAKE THAT LITTLE BUGGER OUT! It has a
tiny orifice in it that makes a nice spray of primer, but if you are really
a dunce and take it out, as I did, thinking it was a protective seal, then
you'll have a flood of primer to deal with.
On the positive side, the stuff works pretty good so far. Goes on nicely.
Dries quickly. Other than that, we'll see.
John Jessen
(working on the rudder while contemplating the Zen of riveting)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens
Subject: RV10-List: Excellent -10 Picture!
Here's a great picture from Van's Hobbs Meter off their site. Two -10s fly
from the same location on the same day! One is the "Tim Paint Scheme
Look-Alike" :)
<http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/first_flight/pair_of_tens_lg.jpg>
-Sean #40303 (ailerons - Dang, that leading edge skin is hard to cleco on
top)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net> |
I had the same thing as well. I went for it as it appears there is a LOT
more work on the fuselage than the wings. I had initially asked to have the
wings and fuselage shipped together to save shipping costs and Barbara
offered to discount the estimated difference. Saved me all of $85 but I
guess everything helps. I got a call a week ago and she said the wings were
ready so it shouldn't be too much of a wait for you either. I'm having them
shipped with the finishing kit first week of Jul so I need to get busy
clearing room out in the garage!
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Byron Gillespie
Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB fuselage
That pretty well matches up with the conversation I had today. I
received the call yesterday that my QB wings were ready to ship. I am
going QB wings and std fuselage and am only about 20% complete. When I
checked back today, I asked if there was a wait on the wings and she
said that they had several QB fuselage kits that were without wings so I
opted to let someone else have the wings and I'll hold off till the
fall. No since in letting them sit in the crate when someone else could
be doing something with them. Save the cash balance and continue to
dimple away.....
Byron
Deep in the std fus..#40253
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Subject: RV10-List: QB fuselage
I received an interesting call today from Barbara
at Van's. It seems that the folks in the
Philipines are producing fuselages but not too
many wings. She wanted to know if I wanted to go
ahead and have the fuselage shipped. Since I am
in the processing of riveting the tail cone and
the rest of the QB kit wasn't supposed to be
shipped until August I thought I would go ahead
and have it shipped :-)
I asked her if they didn't quite get it in the
Philipines that there needed to be 2 wings with
every fuselage. She laughed and said maybe they
would catch on soon.
Oh well I'm happy to be getting the fuse now so
the project won't be delayed.
Robert Vinroot
N843RV #40343
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Andair Fuel Valve install pictures. |
| From: | "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)mail.sprint.com> |
Here are a couple of pictures of my Andair Fuel Valve
installation. The left 90 degree fitting is the prop governor fitting
which is shorter and allows the clearance necessary for the tunnel side
wall and the rudder cable. The Fuel valve came from Van's.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
CDNI Principal Engineer
Sprint PCS
16020 West 113th Street
Lenexa, KS 66219
Mailstop KSLNXK0101
(913) 859-1414 (Office)
(913) 226-0106 (Pcs)
(913) 859-1234 (Fax)
Ray.R.Doerr(at)mail.sprint.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Parking Brake Valve Installation picture. |
| From: | "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)mail.sprint.com> |
Here is a picture of my Parking Brake Valve installation. The mount
that holds it to the firewall also is used to clamp the end of the
push/pull cable and also has the limits of travel set in it for the
valve.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
Hello Mark, I have a friend who just took off there gascolator on his
RV9 because of vapor lock. Randy
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Chamberlain
Subject: RV10-List: Gascolator
Wondering if any one has some thoughts on whether to use a gascolator or
not on the IO-540 version. I have had a nice Andaire one for some time
but not sure if I really need it. I noticed it is part of the FWF kit,
But when I talked to the Van's folks they didn't think it was necessary
and couldn't even remember if they put one on their 10. In addition to
that, there are no mention of it in the FWF plans. Ideas/ thoughts
appreciated. Thx. Mark (40016)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AndrewTR30(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Extras to Order with QB Wings |
Don't forget your fuel level senders, you need a left and a right. You might
also order some conduit from Vans if that's the type you are planning on
using.
Andrew
QB Wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Rib Mod |
Hey, great discussion guys!! Now, I completely understand what you're
trying to get across Niko, so please don't think that this is meant to
be defensive....and I definitely understand that you know more about
this than I do in the terms of the book knowledge. I don't know if
you've actually had your hands on this panel area yet, so forgive me
if I assume you haven't.
John, I don't exactly know how that paragraph is intended to be read,
but you may have a point on the use of the word "forward".
Tim, (Mr. TDT), you might not have read my page that had these photos
on it, but I specifically mentioned the plans state that this isn't
"allowed" (but Johns dissemenation may disagree with that). In fact,
that's why I added photos of the plans that people could read. I wanted
to make sure people understood that this may not sit well with Van's.
I got home tonight and went straight for this panel to look at the
modification closer. First, you should all by now understand and
assume that anything I spew forth should be taken as my opinion only,
and trust the judgment as you wish. I'm not professing to be an expert
on pretty much any of this project. But, let me tell you what I
noticed when I looked at this.
As I mentioned in my previous post, this aluminum angle is much thicker
and stiffer than the original rib aluminum. And although Niko pointed
out that there those angles with the cuts in them will prove to be
a weaker link, I don't believe it's nearly as serious as one might.
For one thing, Johns point that I did not cut through the aluminum
does mean that it would take some added force to break that bend where
each segment comes together. Not just a little force, but considering
that it has another half of the angle riveted to the rib, it would
be a pretty extrordinary force....not general use, but a crash.
So, I looked at how the overall structure was. They use pretty
flimsy metal in all of those ribs, and the sub-panel. Not very
stiff at all. When I pushed, pulled, tugged, bent and yanked on this
upper rib, it always stayed nice and solid on the skinny, rearward
portion of the rib. Almost no movement at all....with it being
VERY solid....all the way back to the sub panel. Then, at the point
where the angles I added meet the sub panel and the rib is back to
full size, you do not have that added thickness of the .063 angle.
As it turns out, all of my forces were easily able to deform (non
destructively) and bend and twist that taller forward portion of the
rib. Not because of some flaw in the modification, but because that
rib is very thin and flimsy on its own. It would be a heck of a lot
tougher if the angle I added were added to the forward portion of
the rib also.
So, from my non-scientific, non-manthematical, non-engineering
viewpoint, I truly think that my modified rib would actually
hold up better than the original rib would. In fact, if the
panel top were a table, I'd bet that I could put more weight
on it before that rib bent than before. When it bent, I can
tell you where it would bend too....right at that subpanel.
You can just feel it when you wiggle the darn thing.
So, this isn't some "in your face" reply....please don't take
it as that, as I know sometimes people interpret emotion
differently than intended in email. But, despite the truly
logical, well thought out, calculated and scientific drawings
that Niko did, I'm very happy with how the modification turned
out and I personally have no concerns. I only wish that this
wasn't just an email group, but you guys could come yank
and bend it around for yourself.
So John Jessen, I know from your reply that you have concerns, and
I'm not saying you should take my advice, but I just want to ease
your mind that I don't think this is as big a problem as it
is sounding like. Sure, from an engineering standpoint it
isn't perfect....but I personally feel it will hold up fantastically,
especially when you consider that you are going to be adding
a lot of stiffness to the structure when you screw the flat
panel and lower subpanel in and connect that rib to the panel.
Think about it, when that panel is in place, the lower edge is
secured by the fuselage sides, and if you want to bend that rib
down, you're going to have to A) Fold your panel by squashing
it vertically, or B) squash your fuselage inward from side to
side by crushing it in a crash. This thing isn't going anywhere
unless you have a major major accident, either way, and in
that accident, there would be a lot of other structure that would
be much more worrysome than this little panel rib.
Great discussion though. Keep adding to it as you wish. Thanks
Niko for taking the time to draw all of that out. It's valuable
for everone to see. Do note that I didn't cut all the way thru
those aluminum angles though.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
John W. Cox wrote:
>
>
> "Removal of material from the F-1044 Center (Forward) Fuselage Rib
> subassembly OR F-1045-Left (Forward) Fuselage Rib and Right (Forward)
> Fuselage Rib is not allowed." There is no mention of the portion AFT
> of said components.
>
> I interpret that to currently allow the builder to modify the aft
> portions on F-1044 Center Subassembly towards the PIC at
> F-1003C-Left, Center and Right from F-1068B Center going AFT on
> F-1045L and from F-1068B R going AFT on F- 1045 Right would be
> reasonably acceptable. Meaning that Tim's modification is within the
> scope of current written instructions on Page 41-2 dated July 21,
> 2004. Good news for pursuit of 21st Century instruments.
>
> I must still be missing something.
>
> On a second note: you can certainly read it that way and not pursue
> room for Chelton, BMA, GRapids or other glass components while
> keeping the music "On Key". It is a great discussion point and
> demonstrates the value of this forum.
>
>
> John - $00.02
>
> ________________________________________ From:
> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
> Dawson-Townsend Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:06 PM To:
> rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
>
> Just browsing Chapter 41 of the fuse plans where it says not to
> remove any material from any of these three ribs . . .
>
> TDT
>
>
> ________________________________________ From:
> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of John W. Cox Sent:
> Mon 6/13/2005 8:40 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE:
> RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod Niko, your illustration drives home the
> point and is most appreciated. However, your illustration shows an
> actual cut in the lower diagonal edge into four independent and
> separate elements. Tim's work introduced bends into this (diagonal
> curved) edge without cuts clear through, which would decrease
> strength yet his cuts were only on the vertical which were
> effectively doubled back into the original rib vertical. There must
> be a computer analysis that could computate the revised doubled
> design with comparison to the original rib. We could calculate the
> weight of desired safety components (glass cockpit technology) and
> the effective arm down to 00.01" then couldn't you derive the lever
> down force on the instrument face.
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> The real issue ought to be a mechanism to improve placement of ribs
> F-1045-L & R along the firewall and incorporate mounting of the
> instrument panel and sunscreen to give the widest range of
> ergonomically placed and visually oriented safety equipment. It
> creates a conundrum on how Lancair was able to mount Randy's stuff so
> stylishly without engineering compromise.
>
> John
>
> ________________________________________ From:
> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nikolaos
> Napoli Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 4:42 PM To:
> rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Panel Rib Mod
>
> Here is how I might make a rib mod. It might be overkill, however,
> unless I knew what the loads were I would have no choice but to
> replace the original strength.
>
> Niko 40188
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rudder Pedal Placement. |
| From: | "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)mail.sprint.com> |
Thank You
Ray Doerr
CDNI Principal Engineer
Sprint PCS
16020 West 113th Street
Lenexa, KS 66219
Mailstop KSLNXK0101
(913) 859-1414 (Office)
(913) 226-0106 (Pcs)
(913) 859-1234 (Fax)
Ray.R.Doerr(at)mail.sprint.com
use to install your rudder pedals? The forward or aft holes. I'm 6' 1"
tall and would expect to have mine installed in the forward position
which would then require me to create the steel rudder links to the 1"
length instead of the 2 1/4" length if you have them install in the aft
bolting location. The reason I ask is I don't have my finish kit yet
which includes the seats, so I can't try it on for size. I would like
to only have to create these links once. Another question is how much
travel is there in the seat rails?
Thanks Ray Doerr
40250
Getting ready to tackle the fiberglass top.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Drilling the actuator |
Can anyone who's drilled that trim actuator (or is it flap) where you
have to put that 1/16" hole in the end for safety wire comment
as to how you drilled the hole? I don't think I'm going to be
able to successfully drill an angled hole and still keep it outside
the nut and have anything left of the corner of that black tube.
So, my plan is to drill straight in the side, and straight down
from the edge around the nut, and meet in the middle.
Any other good suggestions??
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rudder Pedal Placement. |
Mine are forward and work well. I am also 6.1 and have to move my seat
forward 1 or 2 notches at the most. Randy
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
[NTK]
Subject: RV10-List: Rudder Pedal Placement.
-->
Thank You
Ray Doerr
CDNI Principal Engineer
Sprint PCS
16020 West 113th Street
Lenexa, KS 66219
Mailstop KSLNXK0101
(913) 859-1414 (Office)
(913) 226-0106 (Pcs)
(913) 859-1234 (Fax)
Ray.R.Doerr(at)mail.sprint.com
use to install your rudder pedals? The forward or aft holes. I'm 6' 1"
tall and would expect to have mine installed in the forward position
which would then require me to create the steel rudder links to the 1"
length instead of the 2 1/4" length if you have them install in the aft
bolting location. The reason I ask is I don't have my finish kit yet
which includes the seats, so I can't try it on for size. I would like
to only have to create these links once. Another question is how much
travel is there in the seat rails?
Thanks Ray Doerr
40250
Getting ready to tackle the fiberglass top.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Drilling the actuator |
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
Tim, I started straight until I could angle the drill bit and it
wouldn't slide out of the hole. I don't remember if I had to make the
second attempt from the other direction or not. It didn't see to be a
big deal. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: RV10-List: Drilling the actuator
Can anyone who's drilled that trim actuator (or is it flap) where you
have to put that 1/16" hole in the end for safety wire comment as to how
you drilled the hole? I don't think I'm going to be able to
successfully drill an angled hole and still keep it outside the nut and
have anything left of the corner of that black tube.
So, my plan is to drill straight in the side, and straight down from the
edge around the nut, and meet in the middle.
Any other good suggestions??
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Drilling the actuator |
| From: | "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)mail.sprint.com> |
Start the drill on one of the flat sides of the nut and once you get it
started, start to angle the drill until it comes out of the side of the
arm.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: RV10-List: Drilling the actuator
Can anyone who's drilled that trim actuator (or is it flap) where you
have to put that 1/16" hole in the end for safety wire comment
as to how you drilled the hole? I don't think I'm going to be
able to successfully drill an angled hole and still keep it outside
the nut and have anything left of the corner of that black tube.
So, my plan is to drill straight in the side, and straight down
from the edge around the nut, and meet in the middle.
Any other good suggestions??
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
June 08, 2005 - June 15, 2005
RV10-Archive.digest.vol-ak