RV10-Archive.digest.vol-al

June 15, 2005 - June 28, 2005



Subject: Drilling the actuator
Date: Jun 15, 2005
From: "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com>
Tim, that is what I did exactly and it worked out great. Scott Schmidt Cell: 801-319-3094 sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: Drilling the actuator Can anyone who's drilled that trim actuator (or is it flap) where you have to put that 1/16" hole in the end for safety wire comment as to how you drilled the hole? I don't think I'm going to be able to successfully drill an angled hole and still keep it outside the nut and have anything left of the corner of that black tube. So, my plan is to drill straight in the side, and straight down from the edge around the nut, and meet in the middle. Any other good suggestions?? Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Chelton Sport install
Date: Jun 15, 2005
My original plans called a platform in the rear of the 10 just aft of the batteries. I now think I can greatly simplify the plumbing by locating the AHRS,ADC behind the center of the instrument panel. Anybody done this or considering it? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Making all the mistakes so you don't have to...
Ok, today I got my banjo fitting from Aircraft Spruce to replace the stinkin' 3/8" flare fitting on the left branch of the Andair fuel valve. Now I can truly say, you're really gonna be hosed if you buy your valve from Wicks. They don't have an FB20 banjo fitting in stock. I *thought* the banjo fitting from Aircraft Spruce listed as being for the Andair valve would be the fix...but they didn't have a picture. Despite my paying for 2nd day air shipping, I now find it isn't the same as the one from Wicks...that wouldn't be in stock anyway. So, my advice is if you buy the andair valve, buy it from vans, or order it direct from Andair....I haven't found a resonable way to fix the issue caused by ordering from Wicks. Tomorrow I'll have to ship back this stinkin' fitting, and maybe with luck I can get Andair to ship one direct. The valve is fantastic, but DO buy it properly. Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 2005
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Rattle can mystery
You can also rotate that "little cap" to modify the spray pattern from a wide fan to a verticle fan pattern. Rick S. 40185 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 2005
From: "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Gascolator
Randy, I'm taking that as you don't have one on your plane is that correct. Mark. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Drilling the actuator
Thanks guys, I just did the straight down and straight in from the side thing and it worked out great. Just didn't want to screw it up....last night I didn't have a 1/16" bit so it was even harder to think about doing. Note to list: buy a good 1/16" bit. I've already hit 2 places where you need one. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage Scott Schmidt wrote: > > Tim, that is what I did exactly and it worked out great. > > Scott Schmidt > Cell: 801-319-3094 > sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 3:13 PM > To: RV10 > Subject: RV10-List: Drilling the actuator > > > Can anyone who's drilled that trim actuator (or is it flap) where you > have to put that 1/16" hole in the end for safety wire comment > as to how you drilled the hole? I don't think I'm going to be > able to successfully drill an angled hole and still keep it outside > the nut and have anything left of the corner of that black tube. > So, my plan is to drill straight in the side, and straight down > from the edge around the nut, and meet in the middle. > Any other good suggestions?? > > Tim > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Question for Tim - was: Eeerie Paint Coincidence!!
Hey Thanks Byron, you're welcome to use any of the scheme's. I'm not trying to be a one-and-only...I just like them. My advice on the primer is this: I'm not sure what to say about the AFS. You'd be the first to try it if you do, as far as I know. I've heard that Epoxy primers get very hard and make it hard to get the topcoat paints to stick. I got paranoid about this when it came time to spray because I had sprayed my Akzo over a week before. So far, it looks very good, but I'm not sure how it will be in the long run. Also, the Akzo being 2 gallons will go VERY far. I basically could prime my whole plane inside on less than 2 kits of Akzo (4 total gallons) and most of that evaporates away. So, if you buy it now, you're probably going to have far more than you need. So, what I'd suggest is buying either the stuff your PPG rep recommended, or get the PPG DX1791 like Randy used. You'll be able to use it on the outside too, if you get DX1791, so you could still get a full gallon....unless maybe Randy disagrees with that. I don't know the shelf life. IF you go with an expoxy, be aware that it gets hard though, and I think the recommendation is that you spray the topcoat not more than a couple days after you spray the primer. Ask you PPG guy to explain that, because I'm much less informed in that area. If I could do mine all over again, I'd be using DX1791 on the interior of the fuselage, just like my hero, the great Mr. DeBauw. I'd still use the Akzo for the wings, tail and all that stuff though, but Randy's looks far cooler. Good luck with your spraying...take pictures for us! Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage Byron Gillespie wrote: > > Tim: > Love the latest sketches from last night - The wife decided that was > design like what she wanted - I may just have to go with the same design > but use the John Deer green as the color - after all we live in South > Georgia :-) > > Quick question - on the interior primer are you still using the AKZO > under the PPG? I have been using the AFS waterborne previously on areas > that won't get over painted but I am a little nervous on using it as a > base under a final color. Talked to a PPG rep and he highly recommended > against it (expected that) but gave a recommendation for a PPG > EXP-900/901 epoxy primer and a base. I can get that locally - but have > to order the AKZO. > > Always appreciate any and all recommendations. > > Byron > Fuselage - RV-10 #40253 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 1:04 PM > To: RV10 > Subject: RV10-List: Eeerie Paint Coincidence!! > > Ok, this one caught me off guard for sure!!! Kevin, another > RV-10 builder, pointed me to this photo. Notice that my > N-Number is nearly identical (2 end character difference), > and check out the paint similarity. I love this guy's > paint job. I don't know who's -10 this is, but it > sure is pretty. I guess I should feel very good about my > overall paint scheme.....especially if other people think > along those lines too. Amazing that both my wife and whoever > thought up his design came to very similar design schemes. > > Tim > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 2005
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: rudder question
Tim, when you riveted the trailing edge of your rudder did you use Pro-seal> I didn't see any mention of it in your web page write up? Deems Davis #40406 finished VS (33 hrs) and on to Rudder. Boy this is a gas! after getting over some of the fear of riveting, it's really satisfying to have a completed 'airplane part". > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: rudder question
I used proseal on all of the areas in the plans that called for it when doing my trailing edges. I applied it, clecoed the edge to that steel angle "bucking bar" backplate, put a board on top just forward of the cleocs, and put lots of heavy objects on top. Then I didn't rivet for at least 1-2 days afterwards, so it had already taken it's straight set before I tried. I was reminded of this when Gary Specketer did my inspection this weekend. Even I was surprised at how straight and nice those trailing edges were. I know how you feel about finishing a part. I hated to enter the shop at the beginning of a part, because I can't stand deburring. But every time I completed one I felt real good. When you finish the tailcone you really know you have something going, and the feeling gets bigger and better with the wings. Keep having fun! Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage Deems Davis wrote: > > Tim, when you riveted the trailing edge of your rudder did you use > Pro-seal> I didn't see any mention of it in your web page write up? > > Deems Davis > #40406 finished VS (33 hrs) and on to Rudder. Boy this is a gas! after > getting over some of the fear of riveting, it's really satisfying to > have a completed 'airplane part". > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Gascolator
Date: Jun 16, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Correct. I don't have one. I currently don't know of any 10's using them. Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Chamberlain Subject: Re: RV10-List: Gascolator Randy, I'm taking that as you don't have one on your plane is that correct. Mark. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: What Alternator is everyone using.
Date: Jun 16, 2005
From: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)mail.sprint.com>
I'm trying to figure out if I should delete the Van's Alternator from the firewall forward kit and buy the one for AeroSport Power or just use the one from Van's. Can anyone explain what they did as why. I want to order the Firewall Forward Kit in a few weeks and I am trying to figure out what to delete or add with this order. Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 Fininshed Fuse Brake and Fuel Line, next up Flap mechanism. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 2005
From: James Ochs <jochs(at)froody.org>
Subject: Re: What Alternator is everyone using.
Hi Ray, In addition to what people who have put alternators on their 10's already, there was a very long and detailed discussion around alternators on the matronics aeroelectric list that might have some useful information in the archives... James Doerr, Ray R [NTK] wrote: > > I'm trying to figure out if I should delete the Van's Alternator >from the firewall forward kit and buy the one for AeroSport Power or >just use the one from Van's. Can anyone explain what they did as why. >I want to order the Firewall Forward Kit in a few weeks and I am trying >to figure out what to delete or add with this order. > > >Thank You >Ray Doerr >40250 >Fininshed Fuse Brake and Fuel Line, next up Flap mechanism. > > > > > > > > > -- There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. Douglas Adams, 'The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy' ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
<003d01c57128$162214d0$5f638b90@BIGGLES>
Subject: Re: RV-10 Panel Rib modification
Date: Jun 16, 2005
> 5 threads means the bolt is toooooo long It also means you've bottomed the nut out onto the SHANK of the bolt, and the proper tension is NOT being applied. The standard of one-to-three threads showing ensures that (a) the nut is properly engaged and the self-locking feature has enough surface to work properly, and (b) most importantly, that the nut is not bottomed out on the shank of the bolt. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jdwilson16" <jdwilson16(at)cox.net>
Subject: Photos fro RV QB factory in the Philippines
Date: Jun 16, 2005
0.00 HTML_NONELEMENT_00_10 BODY: 0% to 10% of HTML elements are non-standard Mickey, an RV-8 builder from Switzerland had photos from the Quick Build factory and I thought you may be interested. Jay http://www.rv8.ch/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=bonanza ________________________________________________________________________________ ;
Date: Jun 16, 2005
From: Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: was: Eeerie Paint Coincidence!!
I've been using AFS... It works fine and is easy to spray and cleanup. Jay From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Question for Tim - was: Eeerie Paint Coincidence!! Hey Thanks Byron, you're welcome to use any of the scheme's. I'm not trying to be a one-and-only...I just like them. My advice on the primer is this: I'm not sure what to say about the AFS. You'd be the first to try it if you do, as far as I know. I've heard that Epoxy primers get very hard and make it hard to get the topcoat paints to stick. __________________________________ Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
Subject: Static Dischargers
Date: Jun 16, 2005
Any thoughts on the need for static dischargers? Thanks. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 2005
From: "Jim Combs" <jimc(at)mail.infra-read.com>
Subject: Re: Photos fro RV QB factory in the Philippines
Here is their web site http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/ They used to have a picture of an RV-10 on the home page, but that got replaced. Enjoy, Jim Combs #40192, Fuselage N312F Reserved ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "jdwilson16" <jdwilson16(at)cox.net> Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 12:26:41 -0700 Mickey, an RV-8 builder from Switzerland had photos from the Quick Build factory and I thought you may be interested. Jay http://www.rv8.ch/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=bonanza ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Static Dischargers
Date: Jun 16, 2005
I remembered seeing a long thread on this a while ago and finally found it on the Yahoo Group (haven't looked there for a while, maybe I should). Anyway, here is a clip from two messages posted that might be helpful. You might want to go there and do a search for static wicks for more info. Marcus From: Paul Besing <pbesing@...> Date: Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:39 am Subject: Electric Bob on Static Wicks Here is Bob's response on static wicks. Read it and draw your own conclusions. Perhaps if some enterprising individual can come up with a kit of wicks that have proper types/placements. Static wicks have nothing to do with radio quality or reliability. EVERY time dissimilar materials slide across each other, there is a tendency for one material with a stronger affinity for electrons than the other to acquire a negative charge. Common manifestations include sparks that jump between fingertip and doorknob after walking across carpet. In the winter especially, I have to remind myself to keep part of my body touching the frame of my 1" vertical belt stander while sculpting a piece of metal . . . the Van DeGraff like nature of the belt sander will charge the ol' bod with a significant kick if I don't bleed it off during the sanding operations. Precipitation static is unique to airborne particles sliding past any conductor. Radio receivers can be severely affected by dust storms usually associated with high winds. I used to work with an amateur radio repeater installation 1200 feet up on KTVH-TV in Hutchinson, KS. A blowing snow storm would severely de-sense our receivers. Airplanes have unique problems in that they generate their own wind. Airplanes flying through dust, rain or snow can pick up significant charges. When the charge reaches sufficient magnitude, it begins to form coronas at the sharp (usually trailing edges) of wings and flight control surfaces. The static wick is a sharp-ended conductor (enhances tendency for charge to concentrate and form corona) connected to the airframe through some nominal but rather high resistance. The idea is to put sufficient static wicks in the right places so that they force lots of small, low current discharges to form and dissipate the energy at much lower (read less noisy) levels than if the wicks were not present. The faster the airplane flies, the more likely it is to experience the effects of p-static. Further, the finish and skin materials have an influence on tendency to build and concentrate static charges. These effects are present and potentially troublesome irrespective of the vintage of radios carried aboard the airplane. VHF radios are less susceptible than HF or ADF receivers. Grounded antennas are quieter than isolated antennas. There are some modern digital signal processing techniques that can reduce the audible effects of p-static but ultimately, locally generated static noises will overwhelm a receiver looking for weaker signals. The number, style and placement of static wicks on our bizjets is as much an art as a science. We spent a great deal of $time$ selecting the right products and installations. Further, there's a comprehensive incoming inspection of static wicks . . . seems that a performance of a static wick is very sensitive to production variability. If your airplane suffers from the effects of p-static, it may take a lot of effort over a long period of time to deduce the optimum solution. Bob . . . Here is some further correspondance that I had with Bob Nuckolls: >As always, your responses are detailed and helpful. Thanks again for taking >the time to respond. I gather from your response, that for the experimental >airplane, randomly installing static wicks on control surfaces probably >wouldn't do as much benefit? Just no way to tell. You have to start some place. The BIG problem with deducing static wick effectiveness is quantification. It's nearly impossible to duplicate both conditions that produce the noise and very difficult to gage magnitude of the noise. I'll ask around out at RAC and see if I can get some first hand guidance from folks who have done this. In any case, if you've had a problem at some point in time it certainly doesn't hurt to try SOMETHING. It may be "pink elephant" repellant (haven't seen any pink elephants around here in a long time . . . it must be working!), or it may just do the trick. The hard part is knowing when you've truly done a good thing. Fortunately, our customers fly around in p-static territory with some regularity . . . we get feedback pretty fast. If I were to task you with a development program to optimize the wicks installation on an RV, just how would you go about it? Let me see what the pros have to say. Bob . . . -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Subject: RV10-List: Static Dischargers Any thoughts on the need for static dischargers? Thanks. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: Engine
Date: Jun 16, 2005
From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com>
New engine possibility? http://www.eagleengines.com/XTREEM%20540.htm Got it from EAA news . . . TDT ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Marcus Cooper Subject: RE: RV10-List: Static Dischargers I remembered seeing a long thread on this a while ago and finally found it on the Yahoo Group (haven't looked there for a while, maybe I should). Anyway, here is a clip from two messages posted that might be helpful. You might want to go there and do a search for static wicks for more info. Marcus From: Paul Besing <pbesing@...> Date: Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:39 am Subject: Electric Bob on Static Wicks Here is Bob's response on static wicks. Read it and draw your own conclusions. Perhaps if some enterprising individual can come up with a kit of wicks that have proper types/placements. Static wicks have nothing to do with radio quality or reliability. EVERY time dissimilar materials slide across each other, there is a tendency for one material with a stronger affinity for electrons than the other to acquire a negative charge. Common manifestations include sparks that jump between fingertip and doorknob after walking across carpet. In the winter especially, I have to remind myself to keep part of my body touching the frame of my 1" vertical belt stander while sculpting a piece of metal . . . the Van DeGraff like nature of the belt sander will charge the ol' bod with a significant kick if I don't bleed it off during the sanding operations. Precipitation static is unique to airborne particles sliding past any conductor. Radio receivers can be severely affected by dust storms usually associated with high winds. I used to work with an amateur radio repeater installation 1200 feet up on KTVH-TV in Hutchinson, KS. A blowing snow storm would severely de-sense our receivers. Airplanes have unique problems in that they generate their own wind. Airplanes flying through dust, rain or snow can pick up significant charges. When the charge reaches sufficient magnitude, it begins to form coronas at the sharp (usually trailing edges) of wings and flight control surfaces. The static wick is a sharp-ended conductor (enhances tendency for charge to concentrate and form corona) connected to the airframe through some nominal but rather high resistance. The idea is to put sufficient static wicks in the right places so that they force lots of small, low current discharges to form and dissipate the energy at much lower (read less noisy) levels than if the wicks were not present. The faster the airplane flies, the more likely it is to experience the effects of p-static. Further, the finish and skin materials have an influence on tendency to build and concentrate static charges. These effects are present and potentially troublesome irrespective of the vintage of radios carried aboard the airplane. VHF radios are less susceptible than HF or ADF receivers. Grounded antennas are quieter than isolated antennas. There are some modern digital signal processing techniques that can reduce the audible effects of p-static but ultimately, locally generated static noises will overwhelm a receiver looking for weaker signals. The number, style and placement of static wicks on our bizjets is as much an art as a science. We spent a great deal of $time$ selecting the right products and installations. Further, there's a comprehensive incoming inspection of static wicks . . . seems that a performance of a static wick is very sensitive to production variability. If your airplane suffers from the effects of p-static, it may take a lot of effort over a long period of time to deduce the optimum solution. Bob . . . Here is some further correspondance that I had with Bob Nuckolls: >As always, your responses are detailed and helpful. Thanks again for taking >the time to respond. I gather from your response, that for the experimental >airplane, randomly installing static wicks on control surfaces probably >wouldn't do as much benefit? Just no way to tell. You have to start some place. The BIG problem with deducing static wick effectiveness is quantification. It's nearly impossible to duplicate both conditions that produce the noise and very difficult to gage magnitude of the noise. I'll ask around out at RAC and see if I can get some first hand guidance from folks who have done this. In any case, if you've had a problem at some point in time it certainly doesn't hurt to try SOMETHING. It may be "pink elephant" repellant (haven't seen any pink elephants around here in a long time . . . it must be working!), or it may just do the trick. The hard part is knowing when you've truly done a good thing. Fortunately, our customers fly around in p-static territory with some regularity . . . we get feedback pretty fast. If I were to task you with a development program to optimize the wicks installation on an RV, just how would you go about it? Let me see what the pros have to say. Bob . . . -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Subject: RV10-List: Static Dischargers Any thoughts on the need for static dischargers? Thanks. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Kirkland" <jskirkland(at)webpipe.net>
Subject: Re: Static Dischargers
Date: Jun 16, 2005
Yes. I had Dayton-Granger think about static dischargers for the RV-10. Call them at (954) 463-3451 and ask for Bill Senneff. He is an applications engineer that worked out a placement for the RV-10. Ask him to send you drawing #701558, Discharger Installation Diagram Vans Aircraft RV-10. The discharger they recommend is 16165, cheapest price is Styles Logistics selling via skygeek.com for $37.50 with free shipping. Aircraft Spruce can't beat that. I'll try to scan it in when I'm not rivering and see is Tim can put it on his website. John Kirkland, PE Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company #40333 N540XP Jesse Saint writes: > Any thoughts on the need for static dischargers? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Jesse Saint > > I-TEC, Inc. > > jesse(at)itecusa.org > > www.itecusa.org > > W: 352-465-4545 > > C: 352-427-0285 > > F: 815-377-3694 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 2005
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder Pedal Placement - Transition training
Marcus, Flashbulbs went off on F-117 on final here too...cept it got you a trip to the pokey......but that was late at night in the desert prior to 1988. Rick S. 40185 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 2005
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder Pedal Placement - Transition training
Marcus, Flashbulbs went off on F-117 on final here too...cept it got you a trip to the pokey......but that was late at night in the desert prior to 1988. Rick S. 40185 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 2005
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder Pedal Placement - Transition training
Marcus, Flashbulbs went off on F-117 on final here too...cept it got you a trip to the pokey......but that was late at night in the desert prior to 1988. Rick S. 40185 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Subject: Build Time
Date: Jun 16, 2005
I realize we work at different speeds, with different skill sets, to different standards and with different levels of panels, paint jobs and mods in mind, but I would still like to get a handle on how long this thing is going to take me to build. Don't' get me wrong, I enjoy the build process, but I'd like to know if I'm on track for 4 years or 12... and if I'm taking longer than I should, is it that I need a different tool or spend too much time deburring? I'm certain too, that builders both ahead of and behind me would be helped along by some reasonable sense of how they were progressing relative to the group. Anyway, with all that in mind I report the following: I've been working since November 16th, 2004 when my tail kit arrived. I'm sustaining a pace of 2 hours a day, 5 days a week and have some notion that the project will take me 2000 hours... or about 4 years from the time I unpacked the crate. As of today, I've put in 309.18 hours. I track my time on the computer by "clocking in" when I begin work and "clocking out" when I've washed my hands after I've stopped work. My time includes unpacking the crate and taking the inventory. It doesn't include setting up the work shop, reading the manual before bed or reading these e-mails. I've previously built the tail of an RV-6 I'm not priming anything aluminum until I get to the cabin. I work with almost no help (I enlist some from time to time when I can't reach both sides of a rivet). My project sits inside my commercial printing business and I work on it during the work day, so I'm subject to interruptions from my employees and customers I'll likely "buy" my panel, upholstery and firewall forward. I'm considering shooting my own paint. I've had to build a pair of attach brackets for the HS as well as the tip ribs for the elevators twice at the cost of about 10 hours I've got about 2-3 hours left to attach the trim tabs to the elevators and have put about 14 hours into the tail cone while I waited for the pro-seal to dry on the tabs. Any thoughts? Is my 2000 hour expectation reasonable? Jeff Carpenter 40304 N410CF OSH 09 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Build Time
Date: Jun 17, 2005
Well, this is a curious topic. I thought about just this as I was working on the rudder tonight. I get about 2 to 3 hours per night of good work in, plus at least 8 hours on the weekend, sometimes more. I tend to work alone, just because I like it that way. I know someone was advocating partnering, and I agree it would help speed things along, but it's just not my style. I'm sure that 99% of the build time will be me. I'll probably do slow build wings and quick build fuselage (the latter only because I'll be getting antsy to move faster), so that will take more time. But how much? I'd like to think 2 years, but it'll probably be at least 3. If I get to the first of the year and I'm still on the Empcone, then I may change my mind about working alone and getting slow build wings. My son will do the panel design, and I hope by the time I'm ready for the engine, I'll have enough to buy new. Painting can wait while I fly for six months, although the interior will get plenty of attention. That doesn't answer your question, but you know what? I'd rather not ponder it too hard. It's a journey. I'm enjoying it. I'm already thinking about the next type to build. Probably a Sportsman on floats. With the folding wings, it might just fit next to the RV! John Jessen (Working on the rudder while the primer dries on the VS) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter Subject: RV10-List: Build Time I realize we work at different speeds, with different skill sets, to different standards and with different levels of panels, paint jobs and mods in mind, but I would still like to get a handle on how long this thing is going to take me to build. Don't' get me wrong, I enjoy the build process, but I'd like to know if I'm on track for 4 years or 12... and if I'm taking longer than I should, is it that I need a different tool or spend too much time deburring? I'm certain too, that builders both ahead of and behind me would be helped along by some reasonable sense of how they were progressing relative to the group. Anyway, with all that in mind I report the following: I've been working since November 16th, 2004 when my tail kit arrived. I'm sustaining a pace of 2 hours a day, 5 days a week and have some notion that the project will take me 2000 hours... or about 4 years from the time I unpacked the crate. As of today, I've put in 309.18 hours. I track my time on the computer by "clocking in" when I begin work and "clocking out" when I've washed my hands after I've stopped work. My time includes unpacking the crate and taking the inventory. It doesn't include setting up the work shop, reading the manual before bed or reading these e-mails. I've previously built the tail of an RV-6 I'm not priming anything aluminum until I get to the cabin. I work with almost no help (I enlist some from time to time when I can't reach both sides of a rivet). My project sits inside my commercial printing business and I work on it during the work day, so I'm subject to interruptions from my employees and customers I'll likely "buy" my panel, upholstery and firewall forward. I'm considering shooting my own paint. I've had to build a pair of attach brackets for the HS as well as the tip ribs for the elevators twice at the cost of about 10 hours I've got about 2-3 hours left to attach the trim tabs to the elevators and have put about 14 hours into the tail cone while I waited for the pro-seal to dry on the tabs. Any thoughts? Is my 2000 hour expectation reasonable? Jeff Carpenter 40304 N410CF OSH 09 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2005
From: Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Build Time
~200 seems to be a rough average for the emp kit if I remember the database from the Yahoo groups. It took me almost exactly 200 hours to finish the emp kit which includes priming everything "inside" and attaching the fairings (including glassing and filling the seam lines at the fairing attach points. It does vary quite a bit though. However, I think 2000 hours is a really good estimate for completion. -Sean #40303 ailerons Jeff Carpenter wrote: > > I realize we work at different speeds, with different skill sets, to > different standards and with different levels of panels, paint jobs > and mods in mind, but I would still like to get a handle on how long > this thing is going to take me to build. Don't' get me wrong, I > enjoy the build process, but I'd like to know if I'm on track for 4 > years or 12... and if I'm taking longer than I should, is it that I > need a different tool or spend too much time deburring? > > I'm certain too, that builders both ahead of and behind me would be > helped along by some reasonable sense of how they were progressing > relative to the group. > > Anyway, with all that in mind I report the following: > > I've been working since November 16th, 2004 when my tail kit > arrived. I'm sustaining a pace of 2 hours a day, 5 days a week and > have some notion that the project will take me 2000 hours... or about > 4 years from the time I unpacked the crate. As of today, I've put in > 309.18 hours. I track my time on the computer by "clocking in" when > I begin work and "clocking out" when I've washed my hands after I've > stopped work. My time includes unpacking the crate and taking the > inventory. It doesn't include setting up the work shop, reading the > manual before bed or reading these e-mails. > > I've previously built the tail of an RV-6 > I'm not priming anything aluminum until I get to the cabin. > I work with almost no help (I enlist some from time to time when I > can't reach both sides of a rivet). > My project sits inside my commercial printing business and I work on > it during the work day, so I'm subject to interruptions from my > employees and customers > I'll likely "buy" my panel, upholstery and firewall forward. I'm > considering shooting my own paint. > > I've had to build a pair of attach brackets for the HS as well as the > tip ribs for the elevators twice at the cost of about 10 hours > > I've got about 2-3 hours left to attach the trim tabs to the > elevators and have put about 14 hours into the tail cone while I > waited for the pro-seal to dry on the tabs. > > Any thoughts? Is my 2000 hour expectation reasonable? > > Jeff Carpenter > 40304 > N410CF > OSH 09 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Werner Schneider" <glastar(at)gmx.net>
Subject: Re: Build Time
Date: Jun 17, 2005
Hello Jeff, no RV-10 experience yet, I did build a Glastar in 3.5 years and aprox. 2500 hrs, I did also work most of the time by myself, the cell was finished after about 1500 hrs, the rest (interior, fw forward, panel, electric etc plus finishing another 1000 hrs, the last half year I was working 4 days with about 10 hrs a day full speed. I calculated later the quickbuild wing it would have saved about 400 hrs. Not an RV-10 but I like it and dreaming about my next project (maybe a 10). Werner ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Carpenter" <jeff(at)westcottpress.com> Subject: RV10-List: Build Time > > I realize we work at different speeds, with different skill sets, to > different standards and with different levels of panels, paint jobs > and mods in mind, but I would still like to get a handle on how long > this thing is going to take me to build. Don't' get me wrong, I > enjoy the build process, but I'd like to know if I'm on track for 4 > years or 12... and if I'm taking longer than I should, is it that I > need a different tool or spend too much time deburring? > > I'm certain too, that builders both ahead of and behind me would be > helped along by some reasonable sense of how they were progressing > relative to the group. > > Anyway, with all that in mind I report the following: > > I've been working since November 16th, 2004 when my tail kit > arrived. I'm sustaining a pace of 2 hours a day, 5 days a week and > have some notion that the project will take me 2000 hours... or about > 4 years from the time I unpacked the crate. As of today, I've put in > 309.18 hours. I track my time on the computer by "clocking in" when > I begin work and "clocking out" when I've washed my hands after I've > stopped work. My time includes unpacking the crate and taking the > inventory. It doesn't include setting up the work shop, reading the > manual before bed or reading these e-mails. > > I've previously built the tail of an RV-6 > I'm not priming anything aluminum until I get to the cabin. > I work with almost no help (I enlist some from time to time when I > can't reach both sides of a rivet). > My project sits inside my commercial printing business and I work on > it during the work day, so I'm subject to interruptions from my > employees and customers > I'll likely "buy" my panel, upholstery and firewall forward. I'm > considering shooting my own paint. > > I've had to build a pair of attach brackets for the HS as well as the > tip ribs for the elevators twice at the cost of about 10 hours > > I've got about 2-3 hours left to attach the trim tabs to the > elevators and have put about 14 hours into the tail cone while I > waited for the pro-seal to dry on the tabs. > > Any thoughts? Is my 2000 hour expectation reasonable? > > Jeff Carpenter > 40304 > N410CF > OSH 09 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
Subject: Build Time
Date: Jun 17, 2005
We will probably have about 2500 hours by the time we're done. About 100 of those to go, we think. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter Subject: RV10-List: Build Time I realize we work at different speeds, with different skill sets, to different standards and with different levels of panels, paint jobs and mods in mind, but I would still like to get a handle on how long this thing is going to take me to build. Don't' get me wrong, I enjoy the build process, but I'd like to know if I'm on track for 4 years or 12... and if I'm taking longer than I should, is it that I need a different tool or spend too much time deburring? I'm certain too, that builders both ahead of and behind me would be helped along by some reasonable sense of how they were progressing relative to the group. Anyway, with all that in mind I report the following: I've been working since November 16th, 2004 when my tail kit arrived. I'm sustaining a pace of 2 hours a day, 5 days a week and have some notion that the project will take me 2000 hours... or about 4 years from the time I unpacked the crate. As of today, I've put in 309.18 hours. I track my time on the computer by "clocking in" when I begin work and "clocking out" when I've washed my hands after I've stopped work. My time includes unpacking the crate and taking the inventory. It doesn't include setting up the work shop, reading the manual before bed or reading these e-mails. I've previously built the tail of an RV-6 I'm not priming anything aluminum until I get to the cabin. I work with almost no help (I enlist some from time to time when I can't reach both sides of a rivet). My project sits inside my commercial printing business and I work on it during the work day, so I'm subject to interruptions from my employees and customers I'll likely "buy" my panel, upholstery and firewall forward. I'm considering shooting my own paint. I've had to build a pair of attach brackets for the HS as well as the tip ribs for the elevators twice at the cost of about 10 hours I've got about 2-3 hours left to attach the trim tabs to the elevators and have put about 14 hours into the tail cone while I waited for the pro-seal to dry on the tabs. Any thoughts? Is my 2000 hour expectation reasonable? Jeff Carpenter 40304 N410CF OSH 09 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Lighting question
Date: Jun 17, 2005
report I know that most of you in the US opt for an IFR equipped plane. In Switzerland however =96 as in most other European countries =96 only day VFR operations are permitted in experimental aircraft. So in fact lighting is not required at all which would save money, weight and build time. What is sacrificed is of course safety even in day VFR conditions. But as I am not an active pilot myself (yet), I can=92t judge what really makes sense. Landing lights of final probably makes sense on hazy days. Strobes: expensive, heavy(?), electrically challenging, certainly makes you more visible =96 but how much? Position lights: I can=92t see any usefulness in VFR, but of course I can miss the obvious. So, is there a serious alternative to =91the full monty=92? What thoughts do you have? Do you have a story where your lights saved your day (not night!) ;-) Thank you! Lorenz 40280 Empennage http://www.malmstrom.ch ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Lighting question
Date: Jun 17, 2005
You should have the standard wingtip and tail lighting from Vans. What that means is a strobe in the rear and one at each wingtip, position lights, and landing lights. You want the landing lights because even in day VFR you want those on the ground or in the pattern to know you're coming, obviously. You want the position lights because one day you won't make it to your destination until just before dark and they help, not as much as the strobes, but some. Besides, I think if you ever wanted to sell the plane to someone in the States, it would help to have them. You want the strobes for twilight and hazy day safety, along with the selling factor. So, full Monty. I wouldn't skip by these at all. If you decide to do so, however, at least run the wires for the lights so that if you want to sell the plane to someone who wants to put them in, they are all set. My opinion only John Jessen (VS and rudder moving along nicely, except for those countersinks. Wonder if they're too deep). _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lorenz Malmstr=F6m Subject: RV10-List: Lighting question I know that most of you in the US opt for an IFR equipped plane. In Switzerland however =96 as in most other European countries =96 only day VFR operations are permitted in experimental aircraft. So in fact lighting is not required at all which would save money, weight and build time. What is sacrificed is of course safety even in day VFR conditions. But as I am not an active pilot myself (yet), I can=92t judge what really makes sense. Landing lights of final probably makes sense on hazy days. Strobes: expensive, heavy(?), electrically challenging, certainly makes you more visible =96 but how much? Position lights: I can=92t see any usefulness in VFR, but of course I can miss the obvious. So, is there a serious alternative to =91the full monty=92? What thoughts do you have? Do you have a story where your lights saved your day (not night!) ;-) Thank you! Lorenz 40280 Empennage http://www.malmstrom.ch ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Build Time
Date: Jun 17, 2005
2200 hundred hours by yourself will be very close John. Randy -----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen Subject: RE: RV10-List: Build Time Well, this is a curious topic. I thought about just this as I was working on the rudder tonight. I get about 2 to 3 hours per night of good work in, plus at least 8 hours on the weekend, sometimes more. I tend to work alone, just because I like it that way. I know someone was advocating partnering, and I agree it would help speed things along, but it's just not my style. I'm sure that 99% of the build time will be me. I'll probably do slow build wings and quick build fuselage (the latter only because I'll be getting antsy to move faster), so that will take more time. But how much? I'd like to think 2 years, but it'll probably be at least 3. If I get to the first of the year and I'm still on the Empcone, then I may change my mind about working alone and getting slow build wings. My son will do the panel design, and I hope by the time I'm ready for the engine, I'll have enough to buy new. Painting can wait while I fly for six months, although the interior will get plenty of attention. That doesn't answer your question, but you know what? I'd rather not ponder it too hard. It's a journey. I'm enjoying it. I'm already thinking about the next type to build. Probably a Sportsman on floats. With the folding wings, it might just fit next to the RV! John Jessen (Working on the rudder while the primer dries on the VS) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter Subject: RV10-List: Build Time I realize we work at different speeds, with different skill sets, to different standards and with different levels of panels, paint jobs and mods in mind, but I would still like to get a handle on how long this thing is going to take me to build. Don't' get me wrong, I enjoy the build process, but I'd like to know if I'm on track for 4 years or 12... and if I'm taking longer than I should, is it that I need a different tool or spend too much time deburring? I'm certain too, that builders both ahead of and behind me would be helped along by some reasonable sense of how they were progressing relative to the group. Anyway, with all that in mind I report the following: I've been working since November 16th, 2004 when my tail kit arrived. I'm sustaining a pace of 2 hours a day, 5 days a week and have some notion that the project will take me 2000 hours... or about 4 years from the time I unpacked the crate. As of today, I've put in 309.18 hours. I track my time on the computer by "clocking in" when I begin work and "clocking out" when I've washed my hands after I've stopped work. My time includes unpacking the crate and taking the inventory. It doesn't include setting up the work shop, reading the manual before bed or reading these e-mails. I've previously built the tail of an RV-6 I'm not priming anything aluminum until I get to the cabin. I work with almost no help (I enlist some from time to time when I can't reach both sides of a rivet). My project sits inside my commercial printing business and I work on it during the work day, so I'm subject to interruptions from my employees and customers I'll likely "buy" my panel, upholstery and firewall forward. I'm considering shooting my own paint. I've had to build a pair of attach brackets for the HS as well as the tip ribs for the elevators twice at the cost of about 10 hours I've got about 2-3 hours left to attach the trim tabs to the elevators and have put about 14 hours into the tail cone while I waited for the pro-seal to dry on the tabs. Any thoughts? Is my 2000 hour expectation reasonable? Jeff Carpenter 40304 N410CF OSH 09 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark" <2eyedocs(at)comcast.net>
<00f501c572ef$86930760$99151342@Office> <001301c572f3$c105cf50$94a1a643@MARK> <42B25B5C.7050602(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS
Date: Jun 17, 2005
One last point about vertical steering....remember that the Chelton will do this for your autopilot...just not using the actual milivolt output of your radios and being run directly into the autopilot at that signal level. Tim, First of all, thanks for the detailed response. I don't know how you can be so far along on your 10 while keeping up with your website and answering questions from people like me :-) When I see the term +/- 150Mv my mind starts to wander. Are you saying that if the Chelton has HITS vertical guidance on an approach to a runway, that the Chelton can vertically drive an AP down to the runway, even though it may not be an actual approach? This would be great, because in the manual, it says that you can set up a VFR approach with HITS to any runway. I realize this can't be used IFR, but it still would be very useful. Yes I have read the manual cover to cover. I think if they put some of the functionality of the unit on the Direct2Avionics site, they would sell alot more units! Thanks, Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2005
From: Larry <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Lighting question
I would think rear and 2 wing tip strobes and wig wag landing lights in the wing tips would work well. I would pass on the nav lights. Leave room or pull the wire for future nav light installation. My opinion only Larry Rosen John Jessen wrote: > You should have the standard wingtip and tail lighting from Vans. What > that means is a strobe in the rear and one at each wingtip, position > lights, and landing lights. You want the landing lights because even > in day VFR you want those on the ground or in the pattern to know > you're coming, obviously. You want the position lights because one day > you won't make it to your destination until just before dark and they > help, not as much as the strobes, but some. Besides, I think if you > ever wanted to sell the plane to someone in the States, it would help > to have them. You want the strobes for twilight and hazy day safety, > along with the selling factor. So, full Monty. I wouldn't skip by > these at all. If you decide to do so, however, at least run the wires > for the lights so that if you want to sell the plane to someone who > wants to put them in, they are all set. > My opinion only > John Jessen > (VS and rudder moving along nicely, except for those countersinks. > Wonder if they're too deep). > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *Lorenz Malmstrm > *Sent:* Friday, June 17, 2005 7:24 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Lighting question > > I know that most of you in the US opt for an IFR equipped plane. > In Switzerland however as in most other European countries > only day VFR operations are permitted in experimental aircraft. So > in fact lighting is not required at all which would save money, > weight and build time. What is sacrificed is of course safety even > in day VFR conditions. But as I am not an active pilot myself > (yet), I cant judge what really makes sense. Landing lights of > final probably makes sense on hazy days. Strobes: expensive, > heavy(?), electrically challenging, certainly makes you more > visible but how much? Position lights: I cant see any > usefulness in VFR, but of course I can miss the obvious. > > So, is there a serious alternative to the full monty? > > What thoughts do you have? Do you have a story where your lights > saved your day (not night!) ;-) > > Thank you! > > Lorenz > > 40280 Empennage > > http://www.malmstrom.ch > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Lighting question
Date: Jun 17, 2005
From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com>
Instead of three small strobes, I'm using one big strobe I got surplus off of a 1000' television tower. It should be powerful enough to kill any bird in a 100-yard radius, too . . . TDT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry Subject: Re: RV10-List: Lighting question I would think rear and 2 wing tip strobes and wig wag landing lights in the wing tips would work well. I would pass on the nav lights. Leave room or pull the wire for future nav light installation. My opinion only Larry Rosen John Jessen wrote: > You should have the standard wingtip and tail lighting from Vans. What > that means is a strobe in the rear and one at each wingtip, position > lights, and landing lights. You want the landing lights because even > in day VFR you want those on the ground or in the pattern to know > you're coming, obviously. You want the position lights because one day > you won't make it to your destination until just before dark and they > help, not as much as the strobes, but some. Besides, I think if you > ever wanted to sell the plane to someone in the States, it would help > to have them. You want the strobes for twilight and hazy day safety, > along with the selling factor. So, full Monty. I wouldn't skip by > these at all. If you decide to do so, however, at least run the wires > for the lights so that if you want to sell the plane to someone who > wants to put them in, they are all set. > My opinion only > John Jessen > (VS and rudder moving along nicely, except for those countersinks. > Wonder if they're too deep). > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *Lorenz Malmstrm > *Sent:* Friday, June 17, 2005 7:24 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Lighting question > > I know that most of you in the US opt for an IFR equipped plane. > In Switzerland however as in most other European countries > only day VFR operations are permitted in experimental aircraft. So > in fact lighting is not required at all which would save money, > weight and build time. What is sacrificed is of course safety even > in day VFR conditions. But as I am not an active pilot myself > (yet), I cant judge what really makes sense. Landing lights of > final probably makes sense on hazy days. Strobes: expensive, > heavy(?), electrically challenging, certainly makes you more > visible but how much? Position lights: I cant see any > usefulness in VFR, but of course I can miss the obvious. > > So, is there a serious alternative to the full monty? > > What thoughts do you have? Do you have a story where your lights > saved your day (not night!) ;-) > > Thank you! > > Lorenz > > 40280 Empennage > > http://www.malmstrom.ch > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: panel prep
Date: Jun 17, 2005
The panel on my Glastar was cut entirely by myself; results were good but very time consuming. Anybody have experience with a company that can cut a panel; perhaps an avionics shop with laser cut facilities? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark & Kelly" <eyedocs1(at)swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Build Time
Date: Jun 17, 2005
2200 hundred hours by yourself will be very close John. Randy Randy, Is this based on the QB or standard kits? I couldn't tell from the original post. Thanks, Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS
<00f501c572ef$86930760$99151342@Office> <001301c572f3$c105cf50$94a1a643@MARK> <42B25B5C.7050602(at)MyRV10.com> <000f01c57351$57746c00$94a1a643@MARK> Remember that I haven't flown behind this yet, but, here's my understanding regarding your question.... Yes, if the Chelton has HITS vertical guidance to the runway, it should be able to drive your digital Digiflight II VSGV down to the runway....and you're right that it may not be an actual approach. I don't know if this carries true for VFR approaches or not. But, the approaches in it's database for most IFR approaches should have the proper info in it, so, you should be able to load, say, an ILS and let the Chelton drive the AP down the slope...while monitoring the needles yourself. If you note a discrepency between the needles and the HITS boxes, you go with the needles. That part comes from the DVD training video that I got from Direct2Avionics. I also pointed out to Josh now they needed to add more to their site....such as more info on weather, and actually hosting some manuals theirself would be good idea. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage Mark wrote: > /*One last point about vertical steering....remember that > the Chelton will do this for your autopilot...just not > using the actual milivolt output of your radios and being > run directly into the autopilot at that signal level.*/ > /**/ > Tim, > > First of all, thanks for the detailed response. I don't know how you > can be so far along on your 10 while keeping up with your website and > answering questions from people like me :-) > > When I see the term +/- 150Mv my mind starts to wander. Are you saying > that if the Chelton has HITS vertical guidance on an approach to a > runway, that the Chelton can vertically drive an AP down to the runway, > even though it may not be an actual approach? This would be great, > because in the manual, it says that you can set up a VFR approach with > HITS to any runway. I realize this can't be used IFR, but it > still would be very useful. > > Yes I have read the manual cover to cover. I think if they put some of > the functionality of the unit on the Direct2Avionics site, they would > sell alot more units! > > Thanks, > Mark > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS
<00f501c572ef$86930760$99151342@Office> <001301c572f3$c105cf50$94a1a643@MARK> <42B25B5C.7050602(at)MyRV10.com> <000f01c57351$57746c00$94a1a643@MARK> Forgot to add, to clarify.... The Chelton does not have any +/- 150mV stuff in it at all, so, it won't drive ANY autopilot using those signals, nor will it receive that particular signal from any unit at this time. It does receive the information via RS232 though, but that isn't the signal used to drive CDI's, and autopilots using +/- 150mV signals. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage Mark wrote: > /*One last point about vertical steering....remember that > the Chelton will do this for your autopilot...just not > using the actual milivolt output of your radios and being > run directly into the autopilot at that signal level.*/ > /**/ > Tim, > > First of all, thanks for the detailed response. I don't know how you > can be so far along on your 10 while keeping up with your website and > answering questions from people like me :-) > > When I see the term +/- 150Mv my mind starts to wander. Are you saying > that if the Chelton has HITS vertical guidance on an approach to a > runway, that the Chelton can vertically drive an AP down to the runway, > even though it may not be an actual approach? This would be great, > because in the manual, it says that you can set up a VFR approach with > HITS to any runway. I realize this can't be used IFR, but it > still would be very useful. > > Yes I have read the manual cover to cover. I think if they put some of > the functionality of the unit on the Direct2Avionics site, they would > sell alot more units! > > Thanks, > Mark > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS
Date: Jun 17, 2005
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
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From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: panel prep
Date: Jun 17, 2005
One of the best guys out there is Ross at Experimental Air (http://www.experimentalair.com). He uses waterjet cutting, and will layout your panel for you. The results are wonderful! Just my 2 cents as usual. Cheers, Stein. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David McNeill Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 11:43 AM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: panel prep The panel on my Glastar was cut entirely by myself; results were good but very time consuming. Anybody have experience with a company that can cut a panel; perhaps an avionics shop with laser cut facilities? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2005
From: "Jim Combs" <jimc(at)mail.infra-read.com>
Subject: Re: N Number Fonts
After reading the FAR, it appears "Arial Bold" meets the requirements. Don't want to kick the proverbial sleeping dog. Thanks, Jim Combs #40192 ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> Jeez guys. Stop spreading misinformation and read the FARs! Part 45, particularly 45.29, is very specific about this. http://checkoway.com/url/?s=21b6a8b0 )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (514 hours) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Specketer" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: panel prep
Date: Jun 17, 2005
Many machine shops can lay it out for you and cut it, either with Lazer or with regular cutting tools on a CNC machine. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill Subject: RV10-List: panel prep The panel on my Glastar was cut entirely by myself; results were good but very time consuming. Anybody have experience with a company that can cut a panel; perhaps an avionics shop with laser cut facilities? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Ochs" <jochs(at)froody.org>
Subject: Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS
Date: Jun 17, 2005
Nother question about your setup... what are you doing about trim / flap position indicators? Are they built into the chelton the way they are the ACS2500? How about clock and OAT? I assume the chelton and / or 480 have them built in? Here I am fidgeting with my panel and I haven't even finished the HS yet ;) Thanks, James -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS Forgot to add, to clarify.... The Chelton does not have any +/- 150mV stuff in it at all, so, it won't drive ANY autopilot using those signals, nor will it receive that particular signal from any unit at this time. It does receive the information via RS232 though, but that isn't the signal used to drive CDI's, and autopilots using +/- 150mV signals. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage Mark wrote: > /*One last point about vertical steering....remember that > the Chelton will do this for your autopilot...just not > using the actual milivolt output of your radios and being > run directly into the autopilot at that signal level.*/ > /**/ > Tim, > > First of all, thanks for the detailed response. I don't know how you > can be so far along on your 10 while keeping up with your website and > answering questions from people like me :-) > > When I see the term +/- 150Mv my mind starts to wander. Are you saying > that if the Chelton has HITS vertical guidance on an approach to a > runway, that the Chelton can vertically drive an AP down to the runway, > even though it may not be an actual approach? This would be great, > because in the manual, it says that you can set up a VFR approach with > HITS to any runway. I realize this can't be used IFR, but it > still would be very useful. > > Yes I have read the manual cover to cover. I think if they put some of > the functionality of the unit on the Direct2Avionics site, they would > sell alot more units! > > Thanks, > Mark > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: What Prop is everyone flying with? Are there any RV-10 flying
with the 3 bladed MT?
Date: Jun 17, 2005
the 3 bladed MT?
From: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)mail.sprint.com>
I would like to know which prop is being used on all the current flying RV-10's. I like the 3 bladed MT, but there is no way I am going to buy it until I see some real numbers with it on an RV-10 that I can trust. Is there any chance Van's will install this on N220RV and publish the results? If I don't see some numbers soon, I'm going to order the blended airfoil Hartzell from Van's. Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DOUGPFLYRV(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 17, 2005
Subject: Re: panel prep
I will 2nd that vote. He did our 7A panel and very pleased. Doug Preston BHM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Build Time
Date: Jun 17, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Standard build. Quick build would be in the 1800 range I figure. That is if you did most all of the work yourself. But then again I know of a RV8 builder that went all quick build and is retired working on it almost every day except Sunday. He is into his 3rd year. Different strokes for..... Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark & Kelly Subject: Re: RV10-List: Build Time 2200 hundred hours by yourself will be very close John. Randy Randy, Is this based on the QB or standard kits? I couldn't tell from the original post. Thanks, Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: What Prop is everyone flying with? Are there any RV-10
flying with the 3 bladed MT?
Date: Jun 17, 2005
flying with the 3 bladed MT? The 220RV has the Cont. engine and both planes now have the Blended Airfoil Props on them. Randy ________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R [NTK] Subject: RV10-List: What Prop is everyone flying with? Are there any RV-10 flying with the 3 bladed MT? I would like to know which prop is being used on all the current flying RV-10's. I like the 3 bladed MT, but there is no way I am going to buy it until I see some real numbers with it on an RV-10 that I can trust. Is there any chance Van's will install this on N220RV and publish the results? If I don't see some numbers soon, I'm going to order the blended airfoil Hartzell from Van's. Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark" <2eyedocs(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Build Time
Date: Jun 17, 2005
But then again I know of a RV8 builder that went all quick build and is retired working on it almost every day except Sunday. He is into his 3rd year I am REALLY hoping this won't be me! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS
Date: Jun 17, 2005
Bob: My understanding is that the Chelton has both the lateral and vertical location of every waypoint in an approach regardless of type. It can, then, depict via the HITS both the lateral and vertical track through the approach and missed approach waypoints. There are some cases as with any Flight Management System (FMS) where it may not show a particular waypoint if the vertical path defined by the prior and subsequent waypoint clears the missing waypoint vertically. Operationally, good practice would suggest loading the assigned approach into the flight plan as soon as it is known. Then review and verify that the approach waypoints match your paper approach plate. Now you can set the plate aside and concentrate on flying the approach or monitoring the autopilot. As for VFR approaches,that came up in another post, again my understanding from the manual is that you can program a "standard" approach profile of your own choosing, say 3.0 degree vertical slope and a final approach fix altitude of 1500 AGL. Then, anytime, you choose "VFR approach" to a runway that does not have any kind of an IFR approach you will get HITS guidance along the runway track extended from the approach end and the vertical slope you have programmed. This is I think a valuable feature for night landings to runways without approach guidance. In this case, since you are "designing" your own approach you must insure that adequate terrain and obstacle clearance exits. Finally, not much has been said about the "velocity vector" depicted on the Chelton PFD. This symbol shows where the aircraft track, both vertical and lateral will take the airplane. If the velocity vector is shown against the brown terrain or an obstacle, that is where the aircraft will impact if no further action is taken by the pilot. If the velocity vector is on the end of a runway that is where the aircraft will arrive as well. The velocity vector is a powerful and useful tool when fully understood. Take all of this with a grain of salt or two since it comes from reading the manuals and asking questions only. I have not flown the system yet but can't wait. Dick Sipp 40065 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS > Here's another question for those smart about avionics integration - focus > so far seems to be on overlays of precision approaches. How do the > Chelton or GRT handle non-precision (VOR and LOC) approaches with step > downs? > > Bob #40105 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Tim Olson > Sent: Fri 06/17/2005 12:21 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Cc: > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS > > > Forgot to add, to clarify.... > > The Chelton does not have any +/- 150mV stuff in it at > all, so, it won't drive ANY autopilot using those > signals, nor will it receive that particular signal from > any unit at this time. It does receive the information > via RS232 though, but that isn't the signal used to > drive CDI's, and autopilots using +/- 150mV signals. > > > Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 > Current project: Fuselage > > > Mark wrote: > > /*One last point about vertical steering....remember that > > the Chelton will do this for your autopilot...just not > > using the actual milivolt output of your radios and being > > run directly into the autopilot at that signal level.*/ > > /**/ > > Tim, > > > > First of all, thanks for the detailed response. I don't know how you > > can be so far along on your 10 while keeping up with your website and > > answering questions from people like me :-) > > > > When I see the term +/- 150Mv my mind starts to wander. Are you saying > > that if the Chelton has HITS vertical guidance on an approach to a > > runway, that the Chelton can vertically drive an AP down to the runway, > > even though it may not be an actual approach? This would be great, > > because in the manual, it says that you can set up a VFR approach with > > HITS to any runway. I realize this can't be used IFR, but it > > still would be very useful. > > > > Yes I have read the manual cover to cover. I think if they put some of > > the functionality of the unit on the Direct2Avionics site, they would > > sell alot more units! > > > > Thanks, > > Mark > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________ ;
Date: Jun 17, 2005
From: Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: What Prop is everyone flying with? Are there any RV-10
flying with the 3 bladed MT? I would give them a call but I expect the answer is no based on the recent Hartzell blended prop testing and the cost of the MT prop. I believe they do use their governor. I picked up my fuselage kit this week (standard build) and took a ride in the RV-10 with the 260 HP lycoming. I asked some of the staff what the plans are for the Cont and no one expressed confidence that they would do a FWF package for it. Based partly on the recent survey. They also mentioned that the Cont engine is on extended loan from Cont and this was a strong motivation to try it. They wanted to see how it would do with lower HP but didn't want to use the IO-360. I picked up the fuselage kit uncrated and it fit with plenty of room to spare in a 14' u-haul. Other quick comments. THe RV-10 had door open warning lights installed - They said might be a future option. Electric trim for alierons is not ready but will be retrofitable. 210 HP RV-10 has an Andair fuel valve. Eric --- Randy DeBauw wrote: > The 220RV has the Cont. engine and both planes now > have the Blended > Airfoil Props on them. Randy > > ________________________________ > > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On > Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R > [NTK] > Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 1:32 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: What Prop is everyone flying > with? Are there any > RV-10 flying with the 3 bladed MT? > > > > I would like to know which prop is being > used on all the > current flying RV-10's. I like the 3 bladed MT, but > there is no way I > am going to buy it until I see some real numbers > with it on an RV-10 > that I can trust. Is there any chance Van's will > install this on N220RV > and publish the results? If I don't see some > numbers soon, I'm going to > order the blended airfoil Hartzell from Van's. > > > > Thank You > Ray Doerr > 40250 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net>
Subject: Oil Cooler Assembly - Tight Rivet
Date: Jun 18, 2005
products. 1.67 SARE_ADLTSUB2 Contains possible adult words The flange on the oil cooler assembly is in the way to dimple or rivet the one right above it to the firewall. Can't pop-dimple it. How have others done it? Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________ spamd4.ruraltel.net * -4.0 RCVD_FROM_NEXTECH_2 Message came from 24.225.10-29.x network * 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay * lines * 0.0 HTML_40_50 BODY: Message is 40% to 50% HTML * 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message * -1.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% * 0.2 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list
From: "Bill and Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net>
Subject: cleaning skins
Date: Jun 19, 2005
I've finished my HS now but when we sprayed the 2 part sherwin williams primer on the inside structures/skins we got quite a bit of overspray on the outside of the skins (next time we'll be more careful). Anyway, the skins have almost a sandpaper texture due to all the overspray. What's the best way to clean them??? Can I just use a dry scotch-brite pad (will remove the shiny alclad coating but that's what the previous builder did on the rudder/fin anyway)??? Will MEK do the job??? Any other suggestions??? Thanks, Bill Britton HS done, will start elevators as soon as 2005 wheat harvest ends ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: cleaning skins
I wouldn't even worry about it in the slightest. I didn't even mask outside areas and just let the overspray happen on mine. Since you didn't clean the skins and prep them great, it's not going to have that much grip anyway, and when it's time to paint you're going to scotchbrite the whole outside before you do much of naything else too. And, you don't want to do that right now, because you want to keep the alclad intact while you're waiting for the painting process to start. If you really want it off, then sure, try MEK soaked rags laying on the skins, and after it softens, wipe it off, but seriously, I would just leave it for now. Tim Bill and Tami Britton wrote: > I've finished my HS now but when we sprayed the 2 part sherwin williams > primer on the inside structures/skins we got quite a bit of overspray on > the outside of the skins (next time we'll be more careful). Anyway, the > skins have almost a sandpaper texture due to all the overspray. What's > the best way to clean them??? Can I just use a dry scotch-brite pad > (will remove the shiny alclad coating but that's what the previous > builder did on the rudder/fin anyway)??? Will MEK do the job??? > > Any other suggestions??? > > Thanks, > Bill Britton > HS done, will start elevators as soon as 2005 wheat harvest ends ________________________________________________________________________________ ;
Date: Jun 19, 2005
From: Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: cleaning skins
Bill, I use the same primer and MEK will remove the overspray. Depending on the wipe you use, it may lightly scratch the underlying surface. Not to worry though, you will be roughing up the outer surfaces prior to exterior painting anyway... Also, Van's recommends removing the blue plastic. They said they only put it on because of complaints of scratches on new parts - but in the end you scotch-brite the exterior down anyway... That said, I've left mine on except for the rivet lines. It is rumored to get harder to remove over time - perhaps incentive to build faster? :) Eric --- Bill and Tami Britton wrote: > I've finished my HS now but when we sprayed the 2 > part sherwin williams primer on the inside > structures/skins we got quite a bit of overspray on > the outside of the skins (next time we'll be more > careful). Anyway, the skins have almost a sandpaper > texture due to all the overspray. What's the best > way to clean them??? Can I just use a dry > scotch-brite pad (will remove the shiny alclad > coating but that's what the previous builder did on > the rudder/fin anyway)??? Will MEK do the job??? > > Any other suggestions??? > > Thanks, > Bill Britton > HS done, will start elevators as soon as 2005 wheat > harvest ends > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roger Standley" <taildragon(at)msn.com>
Subject: QB Documentation question
Date: Jun 18, 2005
7.50 BARRACUDA_HEADER_FP56 RBL: Blacklist bl.spamcop [Blocked - see <http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?64.4.51.220>] I just received my QB fuselage and wings. They came in three boxes. It's raining so the boxes are outside covered with tarps! Major bummer!! The 4x5x8' (smaller fuselage box) had the inventory list. Anybody know which box contains the builder's manual? Roger #40291 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "brian bollaert" <bbollaert(at)comcast.net>
Subject: aileron pushrod assemblies
Date: Jun 19, 2005
Hello Group: For those with qb or slow build check page 39-5 figure #1 and # 2 , if your f-1064 is 13 1/16 you can delete #1 step , the 1/2 in sleeves are not needed , the new manual updates this .Just use the AN316-4 nuts and tighten to the 14 7/8 . This will save you staring into space looking at the manual , and then making the ultimate phone call !! Should save at least 1/2 hour ! Still thinking about the panel ! Brian Bollaert ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: QB Documentation question
Date: Jun 19, 2005
My QB fuselage arrived only 2 weeks ago and I already am forgetting the answer, but I think the manual was in the box that is hidden under the aft part of the fuselage. One thing looking in that box that didn't settle in right away is that there weren't too many parts that needed to be dealt with. After a slow build RV-6 (non-prepunched) and most of a slow build RV-7 I couldn't stop smiling at all that's been done. Marcus -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Standley Subject: RV10-List: QB Documentation question I just received my QB fuselage and wings. They came in three boxes. It's raining so the boxes are outside covered with tarps! Major bummer!! The 4x5x8' (smaller fuselage box) had the inventory list. Anybody know which box contains the builder's manual? Roger #40291 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roger Standley" <taildragon(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: QB Documentation question
Date: Jun 19, 2005
Thank you, Marcus. You were right, manuals were under the aft end of the fuselage. We finished the inventory in about 2 hours! Very pleased with the quality and amount of the QB. Did you start the wings next? What page did you start on? Roger #40291 ----- Original Message ----- From: Marcus Cooper<mailto:coop85(at)bellsouth.net> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 5:45 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB Documentation question My QB fuselage arrived only 2 weeks ago and I already am forgetting the answer, but I think the manual was in the box that is hidden under the aft part of the fuselage. One thing looking in that box that didn't settle in right away is that there weren't too many parts that needed to be dealt with. After a slow build RV-6 (non-prepunched) and most of a slow build RV-7 I couldn't stop smiling at all that's been done. Marcus -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Standley Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 4:55 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: QB Documentation question I just received my QB fuselage and wings. They came in three boxes. It's raining so the boxes are outside covered with tarps! Major bummer!! The 4x5x8' (smaller fuselage box) had the inventory list. Anybody know which box contains the builder's manual? Roger #40291 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: aileron pushrod assemblies
Date: Jun 19, 2005
Great tip, thanks Brian Dick Sipp do not archieve ----- Original Message ----- From: brian bollaert To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 8:42 PM Subject: RV10-List: aileron pushrod assemblies Hello Group: For those with qb or slow build check page 39-5 figure #1 and # 2 , if your f-1064 is 13 1/16 you can delete #1 step , the 1/2 in sleeves are not needed 14 7/8 . This will save you staring into space looking at the manual , and then making the ultimate phone call !! Should save at least 1/2 hour ! Still thinking about the panel ! Brian Bollaert ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris , Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: QB Documentation question
Date: Jun 20, 2005
Got any pics Roger?? Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Standley To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 11:09 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Documentation question Thank you, Marcus. You were right, manuals were under the aft end of the fuselage. We finished the inventory in about 2 hours! Very pleased with the quality and amount of the QB. Did you start the wings next? What page did you start on? Roger #40291 ----- Original Message ----- From: Marcus Cooper To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 5:45 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB Documentation question My QB fuselage arrived only 2 weeks ago and I already am forgetting the answer, but I think the manual was in the box that is hidden under the aft part of the fuselage. One thing looking in that box that didn't settle in right away is that there weren't too many parts that needed to be dealt with. After a slow build RV-6 (non-prepunched) and most of a slow build RV-7 I couldn't stop smiling at all that's been done. Marcus -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Standley Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 4:55 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: QB Documentation question I just received my QB fuselage and wings. They came in three boxes. It's raining so the boxes are outside covered with tarps! Major bummer!! The 4x5x8' (smaller fuselage box) had the inventory list. Anybody know which box contains the builder's manual? Roger #40291 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net>
Subject: Weld-On 10
Date: Jun 20, 2005
products. Someone had posted some tips on using Weld-On 10 to attach the windows and winshield. Can you pls repost because it didn't come up on the search for some reason. Thanks, Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Assembly - Tight Rivet
Date: Jun 20, 2005
products. 1.67 SARE_ADLTSUB2 Contains possible adult words Mark, thanks for the reply. I've been working on the fiberglass too much and forgot my bag of tricks on riveting. I used the rivet/female dimple die to dimple the hole. Have not riveted the oil cooler assembly to the firewall yet but back riveting should work. Anh #141 ----- Original Message ----- From: DejaVu To: RV10 Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 11:11 AM Subject: Oil Cooler Assembly - Tight Rivet The flange on the oil cooler assembly is in the way to dimple or rivet the one right above it to the firewall. Can't pop-dimple it. How have others done it? Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Alternator provided in Van's Firewall Forward Kit.
Date: Jun 20, 2005
From: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)mail.sprint.com>
0.03 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_HTML BODY: HTML contains text after HTML close tag 0.06 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_BODY BODY: HTML contains text after BODY close tag Is anyone currently flying their RV-10 with the Alternator provided in Van's Firewall Forward kit? I am trying to decide if I should delete it from the kit and buy one else where or just use the one from this kit. Van's has the 60 Amp internal regulated one with the kit, but I don't know what model or quality of it. Any help would be appreciated. Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 to and ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Weld-On 10
Date: Jun 20, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Was that my tips Anh? Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Subject: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 Someone had posted some tips on using Weld-On 10 to attach the windows and winshield. Can you pls repost because it didn't come up on the search for some reason. Thanks, Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 20, 2005
From: James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net>
Subject: Landing Lights
Hi all! I've just put a deposit on the wing kit since the lead time was showing on Van's website to be 15 weeks (Although I got a letter saying it will be shipped August 8th.. They must have caught up) and I have the following questions: What advantages/disadvantages are there between Van's wingtip lights and the Duckworks kit? I'm thinking of going HIDs, but I have not made up my mind yet. If you order without landing lights from Van's, do you get the same wingtip that comes with the lights? Is there a spot for nav/strobes? Things are progressing very fast; I'm at about 80 hours into it, and am ready to do final assembly on the horizontal stabilizer (even though I Alumiprep, Alodine, Prime w/epoxy primer and work alone). -Jim 40384 starting Final assembly of the H.S. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Alternator provided in Van's Firewall Forward Kit.
Date: Jun 20, 2005
After talking to many people at SNF, I decided to switch to the B&C. According to B&C, the Van's alternator is a rebuilt automotive alternator that costs around $150. The B&C is $600. Now that doesn't always mean quality but it usually does. Also, B&C said that their voltage / amp controller will not work with the Van's alternator. They have had problems in the past. Since I am going to have a two battery, single alternator system, I felt it was worth the extra money for the B&C. Id does look a nicer Scott Schmidt Cell: 801-319-3094 sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com ________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R [NTK] Subject: RV10-List: Alternator provided in Van's Firewall Forward Kit. Is anyone currently flying their RV-10 with the Alternator provided in Van's Firewall Forward kit? I am trying to decide if I should delete it from the kit and buy one else where or just use the one from this kit. Van's has the 60 Amp internal regulated one with the kit, but I don't know what model or quality of it. Any help would be appreciated. Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: QB Documentation question
Date: Jun 20, 2005
Roger, I'm still waiting on the wings, Vans had a fuselage there were ready to ship so I accepted that first. As for where to start, I'm still working on that. I defer to Tim Olson and his website (myrv10.com) for recommendations. What I have learned so far was to remove all the temp rivets (be careful, not all the pop rivets are temporary, I think I removed a few I didn't need to) and then start at the front of the manual and identify what's already been done. So far pretty straight forward, although I haven't done much yet. You might want to search the archives for QB fuselage also, I had the same question on where to start and received a few answers. Marcus 40286 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Standley Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Documentation question Thank you, Marcus. You were right, manuals were under the aft end of the fuselage. We finished the inventory in about 2 hours! Very pleased with the quality and amount of the QB. Did you start the wings next? What page did you start on? Roger #40291 ----- Original Message ----- From: Marcus <mailto:coop85(at)bellsouth.net> Cooper Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB Documentation question My QB fuselage arrived only 2 weeks ago and I already am forgetting the answer, but I think the manual was in the box that is hidden under the aft part of the fuselage. One thing looking in that box that didn't settle in right away is that there weren't too many parts that needed to be dealt with. After a slow build RV-6 (non-prepunched) and most of a slow build RV-7 I couldn't stop smiling at all that's been done. Marcus -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Standley Subject: RV10-List: QB Documentation question I just received my QB fuselage and wings. They came in three boxes. It's raining so the boxes are outside covered with tarps! Major bummer!! The 4x5x8' (smaller fuselage box) had the inventory list. Anybody know which box contains the builder's manual? Roger #40291 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 20, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Landing Lights
Hi Jim, You get the same wingtips regardless of your choice in landing lights.....the lights of all types are just an option that is ordered separately. Same goes for Nav lights. The advantages of the standard lights are: Cheap & Readily available No holes to cut in aluminum The advantages of HID's are: Much brighter (by about 3x) Cooler operation Much longer life (no filament) Much less current draw (35W each as opposed to 75) The Duckworks kit is also available as a non-HID.... you mount the same kit, but use either a rectangular auto-style bulb, which can then be halogen or standard, or you can use a round aviation bulb in various power levels. This gives you the opportunity to install standard lights up front, but just swap the bulb and add the ballast at a later date for the HID's. The hole cutting in the wing is not very complicated, actually. I have a full write-up of my HID install at: http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/wing/duckworksHIDS/index.html You will find opinions off all types on the lighting. Your best bet is to do as you're doing and educate yourself as to the various options, and the technical details of them....then make your choice based on where your preferences and priorities lie. For some, it's cost, and ease of finding a new bulb. For others, it's brightness. For me, it was overall brightness, and lower power draw. I hate the thought of how my old 250W light used to draw 20A on it's own...I want a much more efficient system for my -10. Tim Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage James Hein wrote: > > Hi all! > I've just put a deposit on the wing kit since the lead time was > showing on Van's website to be 15 weeks (Although I got a letter saying > it will be shipped August 8th.. They must have caught up) and I have the > following questions: > > What advantages/disadvantages are there between Van's wingtip lights > and the Duckworks kit? I'm thinking of going HIDs, but I have not made > up my mind yet. If you order without landing lights from Van's, do you > get the same wingtip that comes with the lights? Is there a spot for > nav/strobes? > > Things are progressing very fast; I'm at about 80 hours into it, and > am ready to do final assembly on the horizontal stabilizer (even though > I Alumiprep, Alodine, Prime w/epoxy primer and work alone). > > -Jim 40384 starting Final assembly of the H.S. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: Weld-On 10
Date: Jun 20, 2005
products. I found the tips under "glue". They were partially yours Randy. The Weld-On 10 were referred to as "tubes". Mine came in half-pint jars. I wonder if they had thicken it up some ... Anh ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy DeBauw To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 1:47 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 Was that my tips Anh? Randy From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 10:04 PM To: RV10 Subject: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 Someone had posted some tips on using Weld-On 10 to attach the windows and winshield. Can you pls repost because it didn't come up on the search for some reason. Thanks, Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 20, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Quick Flap Question
Just building the flap control tubes. The section where you put the ends on the tubes, and use your wing jig to set the clocking.... The plans say to slide the ends into the tubes, but they don't say how far. Do you slide them only to the powdercoat line so the bare metal is inside the tube, or all the way on. From the plans it *looks* like you don't go all the way, but it doesn't specify in text. I'm sure it's important they go on the right distance, so I'll hold up and see what you experts say. Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 20, 2005
From: Larry <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Landing Lights
Other advantages of Vans kit Low cost can add wig-wag Less weight than the HIDs Mike Howe has a great write-up on the installation here <http://www.etigerrr.com/Wings/april_12_2005.htm> Other advantages HIDs nav/strobe does not block the light beam Shear tip can now be used to mount a viriaty of different LED nav lights use Tim's link on the duckworks installation Tim Olson wrote: > > Hi Jim, > > You get the same wingtips regardless of your choice in landing > lights.....the lights of all types are just an option that > is ordered separately. Same goes for Nav lights. > > The advantages of the standard lights are: > Cheap & Readily available > No holes to cut in aluminum > > The advantages of HID's are: > Much brighter (by about 3x) > Cooler operation > Much longer life (no filament) > Much less current draw (35W each as opposed to 75) > > > The Duckworks kit is also available as a non-HID.... > you mount the same kit, but use either a rectangular > auto-style bulb, which can then be halogen or standard, > or you can use a round aviation bulb in various > power levels. This gives you the opportunity to > install standard lights up front, but just swap the > bulb and add the ballast at a later date for the HID's. > The hole cutting in the wing is not very complicated, > actually. I have a full write-up of my HID install > at: > http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/wing/duckworksHIDS/index.html > > You will find opinions off all types on the lighting. > Your best bet is to do as you're doing and educate > yourself as to the various options, and the technical > details of them....then make your choice based on where > your preferences and priorities lie. For some, it's > cost, and ease of finding a new bulb. For others, > it's brightness. For me, it was overall brightness, > and lower power draw. I hate the thought of how my > old 250W light used to draw 20A on it's own...I want > a much more efficient system for my -10. > > Tim > > > Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 > Current project: Fuselage > > > James Hein wrote: > >> >> Hi all! >> I've just put a deposit on the wing kit since the lead time was >> showing on Van's website to be 15 weeks (Although I got a letter >> saying it will be shipped August 8th.. They must have caught up) and >> I have the following questions: >> >> What advantages/disadvantages are there between Van's wingtip >> lights and the Duckworks kit? I'm thinking of going HIDs, but I have >> not made up my mind yet. If you order without landing lights from >> Van's, do you get the same wingtip that comes with the lights? Is >> there a spot for nav/strobes? >> >> Things are progressing very fast; I'm at about 80 hours into it, >> and am ready to do final assembly on the horizontal stabilizer (even >> though I Alumiprep, Alodine, Prime w/epoxy primer and work alone). >> >> -Jim 40384 starting Final assembly of the H.S. >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
Subject: DAR
Date: Jun 20, 2005
DAR coming on Wednesday! N256H #40241 Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net>
Subject: Finishing outside of plexis
Date: Jun 21, 2005
products. Where do they tell you how to finish the outside perimeters of the plexis? Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Weld-On 10
Date: Jun 21, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Sorry, it is too early in the morning I am worn out from putting my wheel pants on. Mine came in 1/2 pint jars as well. Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 I found the tips under "glue". They were partially yours Randy. The Weld-On 10 were referred to as "tubes". Mine came in half-pint jars. I wonder if they had thicken it up some ... Anh ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy DeBauw <mailto:Randy(at)abros.com> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 1:47 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 Was that my tips Anh? Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 10:04 PM To: RV10 Subject: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 =09 =09 Someone had posted some tips on using Weld-On 10 to attach the windows and winshield. Can you pls repost because it didn't come up on the search for some reason. Thanks, Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Weld-On 10
Date: Jun 21, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Mine came in tubes as well. Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 I found the tips under "glue". They were partially yours Randy. The Weld-On 10 were referred to as "tubes". Mine came in half-pint jars. I wonder if they had thicken it up some ... Anh ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy DeBauw <mailto:Randy(at)abros.com> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 1:47 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 Was that my tips Anh? Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 10:04 PM To: RV10 Subject: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 =09 =09 Someone had posted some tips on using Weld-On 10 to attach the windows and winshield. Can you pls repost because it didn't come up on the search for some reason. Thanks, Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Finishing outside of plexis
Date: Jun 21, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
If I remember it just says to fill the gaps with filler. I am assuming you mean the rear windows. Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Subject: RV10-List: Finishing outside of plexis Where do they tell you how to finish the outside perimeters of the plexis? Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: DAR
Date: Jun 21, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Great. It is getting close Jesse. Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Subject: RV10-List: DAR DAR coming on Wednesday! N256H #40241 Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Weld-On 10
Date: Jun 21, 2005
Mine also came in jars. You have to be fast. Once you put it on, you must move quickly. Somewhere after you glass in the front window there is a section that says, mix epoxy with filler and fill the gaps between the top and the windows. I filled with an epoxy mix, then a body filler and it really came out nice. The orbital sander I got from Sears has been a life saver. The nicest thing about it is that the sand paper velcros on and off easily. Scott Schmidt Cell: 801-319-3094 sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com ________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw Subject: RE: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 Mine came in tubes as well. Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 I found the tips under "glue". They were partially yours Randy. The Weld-On 10 were referred to as "tubes". Mine came in half-pint jars. I wonder if they had thicken it up some ... Anh ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy DeBauw <mailto:Randy(at)abros.com> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 1:47 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 Was that my tips Anh? Randy =09 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 10:04 PM To: RV10 Subject: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 Someone had posted some tips on using Weld-On 10 to attach the windows and winshield. Can you pls repost because it didn't come up on the search for some reason. Thanks, Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Heads up on Hardware for QB Fuse missing
I have more to add to the list of hardware "gotchas" when doing the QB Fuselage (some applies to all fuselage kits). Hope this helps other builders. Qty Item ---------------------------- 1 AN4-20 Not listed in RV10 QB Hardware bags Used on Pg. 40-7 Flap motor. Need 1. 4 AN3-12A Bag 1423 should contain these bolts, per the top line of the bags inventory, but they are not listed on the quanties of items in the bags. No -12A's were received. 4 are needed on Pg. 40-5. AN3-12's were received in the same bag but used on other areas. 4 AN515-6R8 None were included. Short 4 on Pg. 38-10 rudder cable holders. These were also short back on the fuel/brake line holders....not called out in hardware list. Needed a minimum of 12 for the QB Fuse to the point I am at now. Also would be missing the associated AN365 nuts, and the washers on the fuel line brackets. 2 5702-95-30 Bag 1419. Received 4, bag should have 6 2 5702-75-60 Bag 1419. Received 10, bag should have 12 Previous items: Fuel System: Be sure that before you get to the fuel line section you have purchased your fuel flow transducer (Ususally included with your EIS), your ES Airflow fuel pump, and ES Airflow fuel filter. You will need these items when doing fuel lines. Front Floor panels: If you didn't get the floor panels, you probably didn't get the hardware needed either. They will send that with them. I was still short 8 CS4-4's in that hardware pack. Also, there were no K1000-3 nutplates to put under the front legs of the gear brackets (the ones that bolt through the floorpans). Hardware bag 1455 includes 2 K1000-3's, but you need 4 to do the floorpans. You probably should get a couple extra K1000-3's because if you were short already by 4, who knows how many more will come up. I got tipped off from another lister and found these missing too: For brackets holding fuel/brake lines under front seats: AN515-6R8 (qty 8) AN960-6 (qty 8) AN365-632 (qty 8) **** Note, you will need 4 more of these screws and nuts later when doing the rudder cable blocks as well (see above in email) I found you will be real short on the K1000-8 nutplates. They do include 40 in the hardware bags, but I found at LEAST this many required: P. 28-7 (6) P. 32-5 (2) P. 33-7 (8) P. 33-9 (5) P. 34-7 (4) P. 35-3 (8) P. 41-5 (6) P. 33-10 (24) That totals 63. AN257-P3 Hinge: I have a 3' piece, but you need to have about 3' for the 2 rear seats, and about 2' for the baggage door. MS21053-L08 None are in hardware list, but 4 are required on Pg 35-3. AN3-6A 4 are required per side....attaching the control bracket under front seats. pg 28-14. None are included in the inventory list. F-6114B and F-6114C: 2 each are required on P. 33-10, THESE ARE IN YOUR EMPENNAGE KIT. LP4-3's: They send a quantity of I think 275, but I am now running out. I can see that I used 196 on the rear seat area, + 39 in the baggage area for misc. panels, + 14 in the rear passenger floors. Then you get to P. 35-3 to put the bottom on the bracket that holds up the rear seat and it requires 50 right there, pushing you over the top. You will need to buy a Baggage door lock ES A-510-2K with Mag Switch or you won't have a way to latch your baggage door. On the front section, right above and behind the NACA vents, there's a "wire cover" that gets screwed down. There are 3 spots for nutplates pre-drilled in the longeron F1040-L & -R. They hold down the wire cover F-1042G-L&R on page 35-7. My longerons are pre-drilled. I couldn't find the spot in the plans where these get drilled for nutplates, or if it's done at the factory, but, I also couldn't find out where the nutplates are installed, so I have no idea what type are supposed to go there. (UPDATE: These are K1000-08's....so get plenty of those) Hopefully this list will help you people with QB Fuselage's not get stuck at various points along the process. I am very frustrated that every time I went into a section, I ran into a barrier of a missing part or something that had a dependency. Then I'd start another section and go until I ran into another missing part. -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2005
From: Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net>
Subject: Missing Something?
Was just looking ahead in my wing plans. I see a section for aileron actuation, but I see nothing regarding flap actuation? Am I missing something, or are the plans for flap installation in the fuse plans? -Sean #40303 flaps ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
Subject: Missing Something?
Date: Jun 21, 2005
Flaps are actuated directly from the fuse. There is nothing in the wings except the brackets. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens Subject: RV10-List: Missing Something? Was just looking ahead in my wing plans. I see a section for aileron actuation, but I see nothing regarding flap actuation? Am I missing something, or are the plans for flap installation in the fuse plans? -Sean #40303 flaps ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Missing Something?
Date: Jun 21, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Fuse plans. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens Subject: RV10-List: Missing Something? Was just looking ahead in my wing plans. I see a section for aileron actuation, but I see nothing regarding flap actuation? Am I missing something, or are the plans for flap installation in the fuse plans? -Sean #40303 flaps ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2005
From: James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net>
Subject: Riveting H.S. Nose Ribs
Okay, I work alone and was wondering if anyone knows the best way to rivet the horizontal stabilizer nose ribs in place? I've already used the squeezer to rivet the ones on the end, but the ones in the center seem to be difficult to do. Any ideas gang? -Jim 40384 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Subject: Re: Riveting H.S. Nose Ribs
Date: Jun 21, 2005
Flush set and a bucking bar Jim... this is the best time to enlist some help if there's any around. I did them myself and now have a few "birth marks" to remind me that if I can't stand comfortably with the gun in my right hand and the bar in my left, I probably shouldn't go it alone. Jeff Carpenter 40304 Tail Cone On Jun 21, 2005, at 2:38 PM, James Hein wrote: > > Okay, > I work alone and was wondering if anyone knows the best way to > rivet the horizontal stabilizer nose ribs in place? I've already > used the squeezer to rivet the ones on the end, but the ones in the > center seem to be difficult to do. > > Any ideas gang? > > -Jim 40384 > > > www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Specketer" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Riveting H.S. Nose Ribs
Date: Jun 21, 2005
Get help. It is quite a stretch to reach both sides of the front ribs. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Hein Subject: RV10-List: Riveting H.S. Nose Ribs Okay, I work alone and was wondering if anyone knows the best way to rivet the horizontal stabilizer nose ribs in place? I've already used the squeezer to rivet the ones on the end, but the ones in the center seem to be difficult to do. Any ideas gang? -Jim 40384 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Riveting H.S. Nose Ribs
Date: Jun 21, 2005
Jim, These are ones best done with a partner. Having said that, I struggled through mine myself, learning the hard way. The leading edge of my HS suffered some for it. I couldn't hold the gun and the bar at the right angles to get a consistant result. Invented many unusual words during this process. Thankfully the family was not around......john John Hasbrouck #40264 Enjoying the smell of tank sealant! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
Subject: Riveting H.S. Nose Ribs
Date: Jun 22, 2005
Jim, There are only a few rivets that you really need a partner for on the Empennage. These include the nose ribs. Get a partner. Have them shoot and you buck because it is easy for the bucking bar to touch the opposite side of the nose. If they are inexperienced, back off the pressure - its surprising how little is required to set a 426 3-3.5 rivet. Ron #187 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of James Hein Subject: RV10-List: Riveting H.S. Nose Ribs Okay, I work alone and was wondering if anyone knows the best way to rivet the horizontal stabilizer nose ribs in place? I've already used the squeezer to rivet the ones on the end, but the ones in the center seem to be difficult to do. Any ideas gang? -Jim 40384 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
Subject: Cowling
Date: Jun 21, 2005
We used the piano hinges on the bottom and screws and nutplates on the top. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Ritter Subject: RV10-List: Cowling Any builders looking at alternatives to using piano hinge to install cowling - - camlocks, ss screws, etc.? Would like to hear what folks are doing or considering doing. Mark Ritter #40043 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: panel musing #1
Date: Jun 21, 2005
While waiting for my rudder Trailing Edge to set, I gave my panel some hard thought tonight, and came up with this so far. All commentary welcome, especially for logic checking. #1 I'm thinking about GRT right now. Currently a money thing. As much as I'm already stretching the budget with this being a long-term investment, the Chelton just seems a bridge too far. I'll go ahead and (splurge) put the sorcerer in in this scenario unless some good hard-evidenced improving is done soon on the autopilot-software interface. #2 I think I need to add some transducer gauges for oil and fuel pressure until the EFIS comes fully online during startup (what is the lag time on the EFIS?) #3 Even using flush-mount bezel pictures, the three screen system just doesn't want to fit the panel much less the wallet. Even with all the functionality and real estate, I think I'd rather focus my learning on the IFR legal map system in the GNS-480. There's enough other redundancy built into the panel (I think) that it wasn't hard for me to ditch the three screen desire. I'll wait for that until I buy my Adam 500, etc. #4 Switch and knob setup is such that other than for startup (two hands), I'll be dialing, pushing, and pulling with my right hand, flying, trimming, talking with the left. So what other big things are jumping out at you? I'm writing this at almost 11:00 p.m., so the brain's shot. Rob Wright 40392 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: panel musing #1
I'll toss my .02cents in inline... Robert G. Wright wrote: > While waiting for my rudder Trailing Edge to set, I gave my panel some > hard thought tonight, and came up with this so far. All commentary > welcome, especially for logic checking. > > > > #1 Im thinking about GRT right now. Currently a money thing. As much > as Im already stretching the budget with this being a long-term > investment, the Chelton just seems a bridge too far. Ill go ahead and > (splurge) put the sorcerer in in this scenario unless some good > hard-evidenced improving is done soon on the autopilot-software interface. > I think the GRT is probably the next best thing to the Chelton. You'll sacrifice some things, of course, but that doesn't mean the GRT won't make you happy. Besides that, they actively are trying to improve their product. I would talk to them and see if you actually would need to have the Sorcerer *if* they get done with their improvements so that it can fly the approaches. I have nothing to back this up, but in my mind, if they make it work, it should be just like the Chelton is. If you want to get the sorcerer, it's probably more likely based on using a different Nav/Com to drive the sorcerer directly. > > > #2 I think I need to add some transducer gauges for oil and fuel > pressure until the EFIS comes fully online during startup (what is the > lag time on the EFIS?) > > I would suggest adding a 2nd small battery. We have APC UPS's that take a small 12Ah 12V battery that's maybe 5"x3"x4" or something small like that. You could feed that battery for charging by switching it into the system during flight and during shutdown, but you could isolate it during startup. That way you could bring your EIS online completely during startup. I plan to do something similar myself. > > #3 Even using flush-mount bezel pictures, the three screen system just > doesnt want to fit the panel much less the wallet. Even with all the > functionality and real estate, I think Id rather focus my learning on > the IFR legal map system in the GNS-480. Theres enough other > redundancy built into the panel (I think) that it wasnt hard for me to > ditch the three screen desire. Ill wait for that until I buy my Adam > 500, etc > You're absolutely right there...space is tight. For 3 screens, you're going to almost HAVE to go side-by side with it. You should be able to fit it if you want it, but if you're getting all the other systems, you're right, the 3rd screen is a luxury anyway. There are good reasons for having one depending on what you plan to do with it, but it's absolutely not a necessity. > > > #4 Switch and knob setup is such that other than for startup (two > hands), Ill be dialing, pushing, and pulling with my right hand, > flying, trimming, talking with the left. > > > > So what other big things are jumping out at you? Im writing this at > almost 11:00 p.m., so the brains shot. > > Hard to say more without a good equipment list. Suggest going to http://www.epanelbuilder.com and throwing one together. Then do a screenshot and save it as a .jpg in a paint program, crop it, and post it here and you'll get plenty of comments. Tim > > Rob Wright > > 40392 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: panel musing #1
Date: Jun 22, 2005
From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com>
Another option for the "installment plan" is to forego the Sorcerer for now and get a simpler TruTrak 2-axis autopilot, or even get just a single-axis setup in the wing for now. Add the pitch servo and upgrade the autopilot later. TruTrak is really good about giving credit for upgrades . . . TDT ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: panel musing #1 I'll toss my .02cents in inline... Robert G. Wright wrote: > While waiting for my rudder Trailing Edge to set, I gave my panel some > hard thought tonight, and came up with this so far. All commentary > welcome, especially for logic checking. > > > #1 I'm thinking about GRT right now. Currently a money thing. As much > as I'm already stretching the budget with this being a long-term > investment, the Chelton just seems a bridge too far. I'll go ahead and > (splurge) put the sorcerer in in this scenario unless some good > hard-evidenced improving is done soon on the autopilot-software interface. > I think the GRT is probably the next best thing to the Chelton. You'll sacrifice some things, of course, but that doesn't mean the GRT won't make you happy. Besides that, they actively are trying to improve their product. I would talk to them and see if you actually would need to have the Sorcerer *if* they get done with their improvements so that it can fly the approaches. I have nothing to back this up, but in my mind, if they make it work, it should be just like the Chelton is. If you want to get the sorcerer, it's probably more likely based on using a different Nav/Com to drive the sorcerer directly. > > > #2 I think I need to add some transducer gauges for oil and fuel > pressure until the EFIS comes fully online during startup (what is the > lag time on the EFIS?) > > I would suggest adding a 2nd small battery. We have APC UPS's that take a small 12Ah 12V battery that's maybe 5"x3"x4" or something small like that. You could feed that battery for charging by switching it into the system during flight and during shutdown, but you could isolate it during startup. That way you could bring your EIS online completely during startup. I plan to do something similar myself. > > #3 Even using flush-mount bezel pictures, the three screen system just > doesn't want to fit the panel much less the wallet. Even with all the > functionality and real estate, I think I'd rather focus my learning on > the IFR legal map system in the GNS-480. There's enough other > redundancy built into the panel (I think) that it wasn't hard for me to > ditch the three screen desire. I'll wait for that until I buy my Adam > 500, etc... > You're absolutely right there...space is tight. For 3 screens, you're going to almost HAVE to go side-by side with it. You should be able to fit it if you want it, but if you're getting all the other systems, you're right, the 3rd screen is a luxury anyway. There are good reasons for having one depending on what you plan to do with it, but it's absolutely not a necessity. > > > #4 Switch and knob setup is such that other than for startup (two > hands), I'll be dialing, pushing, and pulling with my right hand, > flying, trimming, talking with the left. > > > So what other big things are jumping out at you? I'm writing this at > almost 11:00 p.m., so the brain's shot. > > Hard to say more without a good equipment list. Suggest going to http://www.epanelbuilder.com and throwing one together. Then do a screenshot and save it as a .jpg in a paint program, crop it, and post it here and you'll get plenty of comments. Tim > > Rob Wright > > 40392 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: Weld-On 10
Date: Jun 21, 2005
products. I found the section later on page 45-19. It is vague at best. Earlier in this chapter they have you mask off all but 3/4" from the edge, inside and outside of the plexi. When you fill the gap on the outside between the cabin top and the plexi do you also fill in the 3/4" band around the plexi? Anh #141 ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Schmidt To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 12:49 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 Mine also came in jars. You have to be fast. Once you put it on, you must move quickly. Somewhere after you glass in the front window there is a section that says, mix epoxy with filler and fill the gaps between the top and the windows. I filled with an epoxy mix, then a body filler and it really came out nice. The orbital sander I got from Sears has been a life saver. The nicest thing about it is that the sand paper velcros on and off easily. Scott Schmidt Cell: 801-319-3094 sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 8:23 AM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 Mine came in tubes as well. Randy From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 3:56 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 I found the tips under "glue". They were partially yours Randy. The Weld-On 10 were referred to as "tubes". Mine came in half-pint jars. I wonder if they had thicken it up some ... Anh ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy DeBauw To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 1:47 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 Was that my tips Anh? Randy From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 10:04 PM To: RV10 Subject: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 Someone had posted some tips on using Weld-On 10 to attach the windows and winshield. Can you pls repost because it didn't come up on the search for some reason. Thanks, Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: Weld-On 10
Date: Jun 22, 2005
products. Thanks Randy. I put the rear windows on tonight. I'm happy with them but boy, that stuff makes ProSeal seem easy to work with. You mentioned a white sealant for the inside seam of the windows when we talked last on the phone. Can you tell me again what this sealant is? I don't see running my finger along there with Weld-on 10 as the book suggested. Thanks, Anh ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy DeBauw To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 10:24 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 Sorry, it is too early in the morning I am worn out from putting my wheel pants on. Mine came in 1/2 pint jars as well. Randy From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 3:56 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 I found the tips under "glue". They were partially yours Randy. The Weld-On 10 were referred to as "tubes". Mine came in half-pint jars. I wonder if they had thicken it up some ... Anh ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy DeBauw To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 1:47 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 Was that my tips Anh? Randy From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 10:04 PM To: RV10 Subject: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 Someone had posted some tips on using Weld-On 10 to attach the windows and winshield. Can you pls repost because it didn't come up on the search for some reason. Thanks, Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Weld-On 10
Date: Jun 22, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
I am using Seam Sealer available at any auto parts store that carries some paint products. It is in a caulking gun tube or self dispensing tube. You can get it in white grey or black. Retape the window on the inside and also the windscreen. Fill the seam around the window and wait a few minutes until the sealer starts to set. Then pull the tape off of the window. That will leave a nice edge on the window side of the seam. Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 Thanks Randy. I put the rear windows on tonight. I'm happy with them but boy, that stuff makes ProSeal seem easy to work with. You mentioned a white sealant for the inside seam of the windows when we talked last on the phone. Can you tell me again what this sealant is? I don't see running my finger along there with Weld-on 10 as the book suggested. Thanks, Anh ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy DeBauw <mailto:Randy(at)abros.com> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 10:24 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 Sorry, it is too early in the morning I am worn out from putting my wheel pants on. Mine came in 1/2 pint jars as well. Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 3:56 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 =09 =09 I found the tips under "glue". They were partially yours Randy. The Weld-On 10 were referred to as "tubes". Mine came in half-pint jars. I wonder if they had thicken it up some ... Anh ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy DeBauw <mailto:Randy(at)abros.com> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 1:47 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 Was that my tips Anh? Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 10:04 PM To: RV10 Subject: RV10-List: Weld-On 10 =09 =09 Someone had posted some tips on using Weld-On 10 to attach the windows and winshield. Can you pls repost because it didn't come up on the search for some reason. Thanks, Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net>
Subject: panel musing #1
Date: Jun 22, 2005
I am using the GRT EFIS in my super cub and RV-10. I have an Essential buss on a smaller battery that runs the EIS AHARS & #1 EFIS this gives me my engine pages on start up. So on the walk around the fist thing I do is check switches and cockpit controls and turn on the e-buss master. By the time I get back into the cockpit for start, it is up and ready. To answer your question about time for lite off it is about 45 seconds (seams to be forever if you sit there and wait. No don't put any other engine incitements in you panel just give your self some redundancy in the electrical system and use it. Noel _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert G. Wright Subject: RV10-List: panel musing #1 While waiting for my rudder Trailing Edge to set, I gave my panel some hard thought tonight, and came up with this so far. All commentary welcome, especially for logic checking. #1 I'm thinking about GRT right now. Currently a money thing. As much as I'm already stretching the budget with this being a long-term investment, the Chelton just seems a bridge too far. I'll go ahead and (splurge) put the sorcerer in in this scenario unless some good hard-evidenced improving is done soon on the autopilot-software interface. #2 I think I need to add some transducer gauges for oil and fuel pressure until the EFIS comes fully online during startup (what is the lag time on the EFIS?) #3 Even using flush-mount bezel pictures, the three screen system just doesn't want to fit the panel much less the wallet. Even with all the functionality and real estate, I think I'd rather focus my learning on the IFR legal map system in the GNS-480. There's enough other redundancy built into the panel (I think) that it wasn't hard for me to ditch the three screen desire. I'll wait for that until I buy my Adam 500, etc. #4 Switch and knob setup is such that other than for startup (two hands), I'll be dialing, pushing, and pulling with my right hand, flying, trimming, talking with the left. So what other big things are jumping out at you? I'm writing this at almost 11:00 p.m., so the brain's shot. Rob Wright 40392 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
Subject: Airworthy!
Date: Jun 22, 2005
We are airworthy! We should have the real news this afternoon of this weather holds. N256H #40241 Slow Build - IO-540 - Hartzell 2-blade Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Airworthy!
Date: Jun 22, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Good news Jesse. Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Subject: RV10-List: Airworthy! We are airworthy! We should have the real news this afternoon of this weather holds. N256H #40241 Slow Build - IO-540 - Hartzell 2-blade Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Airworthy!
Date: Jun 22, 2005
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Congrats on the short build time and great accomplishment. #241 and the lucky Seventh to fly. John - KUAO ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Subject: RV10-List: Airworthy! We are airworthy! We should have the real news this afternoon of this weather holds. N256H #40241 Slow Build - IO-540 - Hartzell 2-blade Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Airworthy!
Date: Jun 22, 2005
How is your estimate holding up for completed 10's going. Randy ________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox Subject: RE: RV10-List: Airworthy! Congrats on the short build time and great accomplishment. #241 and the lucky Seventh to fly. John - KUAO ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Subject: RV10-List: Airworthy! We are airworthy! We should have the real news this afternoon of this weather holds. N256H #40241 Slow Build - IO-540 - Hartzell 2-blade Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 22, 2005
From: James Ochs <jochs(at)froody.org>
Subject: Re: Airworthy!
Actually, according to Van's first flights, Doug Peterson got #009 up yesterday... That makes 8 customer builts flying if Jesse gets in the air today ;) Congrats to both Doug and Jesse!!! James Randy DeBauw wrote: > How is your estimate holding up for completed 10's going. Randy > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John W. Cox > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 22, 2005 10:00 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Airworthy! > > Congrats on the short build time and great accomplishment. #241 and > the lucky Seventh to fly. > > John - KUAO > > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jesse Saint > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 22, 2005 9:44 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Airworthy! > > We are airworthy! We should have the real news this afternoon of this > weather holds. > > N256H #40241 Slow Build IO-540 Hartzell 2-blade > > Jesse Saint > > I-TEC, Inc. > > jesse(at)itecusa.org > > www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org> > > W: 352-465-4545 > > C: 352-427-0285 > > F: 815-377-3694 > -- There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. Douglas Adams, 'The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy' ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Airworthy!
Date: Jun 22, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Doug that sneaky guy. I didn't even hear about it. Way to go Doug. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Ochs Subject: Re: RV10-List: Airworthy! Actually, according to Van's first flights, Doug Peterson got #009 up yesterday... That makes 8 customer builts flying if Jesse gets in the air today ;) Congrats to both Doug and Jesse!!! James Randy DeBauw wrote: > How is your estimate holding up for completed 10's going. Randy > > -- > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John W. > Cox > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 22, 2005 10:00 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Airworthy! > > Congrats on the short build time and great accomplishment. #241 and > the lucky Seventh to fly. > > John - KUAO > > -- > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jesse > Saint > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 22, 2005 9:44 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Airworthy! > > We are airworthy! We should have the real news this afternoon of this > weather holds. > > N256H #40241 Slow Build - IO-540 - Hartzell 2-blade > > Jesse Saint > > I-TEC, Inc. > > jesse(at)itecusa.org > > www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org> > > W: 352-465-4545 > > C: 352-427-0285 > > F: 815-377-3694 > -- There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. - Douglas Adams, 'The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy' ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: panel musing #1
Date: Jun 22, 2005
Noel: Did you modify the ribs for placement of your GRT units? Best regards, Russ Daves ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel & Yoshie Simmons To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 9:21 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: panel musing #1 I am using the GRT EFIS in my super cub and RV-10. I have an Essential buss on a smaller battery that runs the EIS AHARS & #1 EFIS this gives me my engine pages on start up. So on the walk around the fist thing I do is check switches and cockpit controls and turn on the e-buss master. By the time I get back into the cockpit for start, it is up and ready. To answer your question about time for lite off it is about 45 seconds (seams to be forever if you sit there and wait. No don't put any other engine incitements in you panel just give your self some redundancy in the electrical system and use it. Noel From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert G. Wright Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 9:52 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: panel musing #1 While waiting for my rudder Trailing Edge to set, I gave my panel some hard thought tonight, and came up with this so far. All commentary welcome, especially for logic checking. #1 I'm thinking about GRT right now. Currently a money thing. As much as I'm already stretching the budget with this being a long-term investment, the Chelton just seems a bridge too far. I'll go ahead and (splurge) put the sorcerer in in this scenario unless some good hard-evidenced improving is done soon on the autopilot-software interface. #2 I think I need to add some transducer gauges for oil and fuel pressure until the EFIS comes fully online during startup (what is the lag time on the EFIS?) #3 Even using flush-mount bezel pictures, the three screen system just doesn't want to fit the panel much less the wallet. Even with all the functionality and real estate, I think I'd rather focus my learning on the IFR legal map system in the GNS-480. There's enough other redundancy built into the panel (I think) that it wasn't hard for me to ditch the three screen desire. I'll wait for that until I buy my Adam 500, etc. #4 Switch and knob setup is such that other than for startup (two hands), I'll be dialing, pushing, and pulling with my right hand, flying, trimming, talking with the left. So what other big things are jumping out at you? I'm writing this at almost 11:00 p.m., so the brain's shot. Rob Wright 40392 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 22, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Trimming Canopy - How much?
Hi all, First, a question for those done with their canopy install.... When you trim the canopy around the fuselage door area, there should be no "lip" on the edge of the fiberglass, right?? It'll end up flush with the skin? It's deceiving while trimming, because it kind of *feels* like you'd put a lip around it just because that's the way it's molded, but I can't imagine it being that way when trimmed...too much drag. The fitting is going pretty well. I trimmed it some last night. Never got it quite trimmed enough to fit easily though. Tonight we'll take a little more off the door sides and it should go on. Any trimming and fitting tips would be fantastic. Also, I just updated the page today...including some trimming photos. There's lots of stuff on this page this time, as I've been scattered around on various sections waiting for my fuel valve issue to be resolved. http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050621 Added stuff on rudder pedals, control installation, flap mechanisim, photos of the seats I just got from Cleavelane/DJ's, and some photos of the initial stages of fitting the top canopy. Even an attempt at my fuel lines. Today I bit the bullet and ordered a new Andair valve from Van's. At OSH I'll get a replacement fitting for my original Wicks one (DON'T BUY A WICKS ANDAIR VALVE!!!), and then I'll sell this brand new Andair valve to whoever wants it at a little break. I just need a valve for fitting my fuel lines for the time being. Oh, and congrats to Jesse and crew...good luck on the flight! -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Trimming Canopy - How much?
Date: Jun 22, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Tim, no lip on the outside of the fuse. It will be flush. There will be some of the radius left on the bottom of the door opening. You will end up with a gap about 1/8" thick between the mid cabin rail cap and the underside of the canopy frame. You will fill that with thickened epoxy before screwing it down. I had my canopy on and off 20 times before the fit was good. Grind a little check it. Grind some more and check it. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: Trimming Canopy - How much? Hi all, First, a question for those done with their canopy install.... When you trim the canopy around the fuselage door area, there should be no "lip" on the edge of the fiberglass, right?? It'll end up flush with the skin? It's deceiving while trimming, because it kind of *feels* like you'd put a lip around it just because that's the way it's molded, but I can't imagine it being that way when trimmed...too much drag. The fitting is going pretty well. I trimmed it some last night. Never got it quite trimmed enough to fit easily though. Tonight we'll take a little more off the door sides and it should go on. Any trimming and fitting tips would be fantastic. Also, I just updated the page today...including some trimming photos. There's lots of stuff on this page this time, as I've been scattered around on various sections waiting for my fuel valve issue to be resolved. http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050621 Added stuff on rudder pedals, control installation, flap mechanisim, photos of the seats I just got from Cleavelane/DJ's, and some photos of the initial stages of fitting the top canopy. Even an attempt at my fuel lines. Today I bit the bullet and ordered a new Andair valve from Van's. At OSH I'll get a replacement fitting for my original Wicks one (DON'T BUY A WICKS ANDAIR VALVE!!!), and then I'll sell this brand new Andair valve to whoever wants it at a little break. I just need a valve for fitting my fuel lines for the time being. Oh, and congrats to Jesse and crew...good luck on the flight! -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com>
Subject: Electric panels
Date: Jun 22, 2005
FWIW. I've followed the postings on this board regarding panel choices and I have to mention a few reservations I have regarding going all electric. In my 20 years of flying most of the problems I've had in the air were electrical in nature. I've fried voltage regulators, had alternators die and smoke in the cabin all of which caused me to shut down the whole system. In that time I've had only one vacuum pump go TU and that happened on startup. So my comments are based on that history. I understand that the avionics are reliable but what of the other componenets in the system? What do you do for a suspected electrical fire in flight? Can you be sure that if you shut down a primary bus that the problem is solved or will the whole system have to be shut down? How long does it take to restart an EFIS while in the air? I've heard that if you have to restart the Avidyne system in the Cirrus in flight you must fly straight and level for 5 minutes. That's hard to do in bumpy IMC with an electric AI that's also spooling up at the same time. Suppose you could use the Dynon or the Mid-continent lifesaver AI with there own internal batteries but they are expensive, I think, soley for backup instruments. IMHO I think I'll use some vacuum powered instruments as backup so as to have a completely seperate power source. Vavuum pumps are cheap, lightweight and simple. They would save me the trouble of dual electrical systems and multiple busses. Yeah, I admit that the GRT's or the Chelton's will find a place in my panel but so will a vacuum AI. Probably use a wet pump with an air/oil seperator. Had one in my 182 and it went to TBO and was still going strong when I sold the plane. Murphy's law being what it is, for me this is the prudent choice. John Hasbrouck #40264 Using proseal as an aftershave. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Trimming Canopy - How much?
Date: Jun 22, 2005
Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Randy, is there a seal between the door and the frame? Rubber? Inflatable? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw Subject: RE: RV10-List: Trimming Canopy - How much? Tim, no lip on the outside of the fuse. It will be flush. There will be some of the radius left on the bottom of the door opening. You will end up with a gap about 1/8" thick between the mid cabin rail cap and the underside of the canopy frame. You will fill that with thickened epoxy before screwing it down. I had my canopy on and off 20 times before the fit was good. Grind a little check it. Grind some more and check it. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: Trimming Canopy - How much? Hi all, First, a question for those done with their canopy install.... When you trim the canopy around the fuselage door area, there should be no "lip" on the edge of the fiberglass, right?? It'll end up flush with the skin? It's deceiving while trimming, because it kind of *feels* like you'd put a lip around it just because that's the way it's molded, but I can't imagine it being that way when trimmed...too much drag. The fitting is going pretty well. I trimmed it some last night. Never got it quite trimmed enough to fit easily though. Tonight we'll take a little more off the door sides and it should go on. Any trimming and fitting tips would be fantastic. Also, I just updated the page today...including some trimming photos. There's lots of stuff on this page this time, as I've been scattered around on various sections waiting for my fuel valve issue to be resolved. http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050621 Added stuff on rudder pedals, control installation, flap mechanisim, photos of the seats I just got from Cleavelane/DJ's, and some photos of the initial stages of fitting the top canopy. Even an attempt at my fuel lines. Today I bit the bullet and ordered a new Andair valve from Van's. At OSH I'll get a replacement fitting for my original Wicks one (DON'T BUY A WICKS ANDAIR VALVE!!!), and then I'll sell this brand new Andair valve to whoever wants it at a little break. I just need a valve for fitting my fuel lines for the time being. Oh, and congrats to Jesse and crew...good luck on the flight! -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 22, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Electric panels
I won't bother too much with "I had a vacuum pump fail" stories, but I have...no big deal in VMC. I think if you go wet pump, maybe you're doing pretty well adding a vac system. I personally don't feel the need for one, but I can see how it might be attractive. Going all-electric just means that you need to build your electrical system to be more robust, and fail-safe, and redundant. As with anything, you can take it to any level of extreme you feel comfortable with. If you think about what runs on vacuum though, it's not much stuff. The DG, the Attitude indicator. If you buy the TruTrak ADI, you can get it with built-in battery backup. (Same with Dynon) so that instrument should be able to be completely isolated and still function. You're also required to have a compass. So, in reality, I don't think that given today's choices, going all electric is much of a safety hardship to overcome. More so from the Electronic ignition arena, if you drop the mags....but, I'm using one regular mag for now, and later will try to switch my lightspeed for a P-mag pair if they're available for 6-cyl by then. At that point, the ignition is more failsafe and independent too...for now, the mag does that for me. I've heard even worse stories about some EFIS units....like you have to LAND to reset them. (Don't know how valid they are between brands). The Chelton guy said straight and level for 1 minute I think on theirs. Lots to think about though, and your vacuum backup is just one of them. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage John Hasbrouck wrote: > > FWIW. I've followed the postings on this board regarding panel choices > and I have to mention a few reservations I have regarding going all > electric. In my 20 years of flying most of the problems I've had in the > air were electrical in nature. I've fried voltage regulators, had > alternators die and smoke in the cabin all of which caused me to shut > down the whole system. In that time I've had only one vacuum pump go TU > and that happened on startup. So my comments are based on that history. > I understand that the avionics are reliable but what of the other > componenets in the system? What do you do for a suspected electrical > fire in flight? Can you be sure that if you shut down a primary bus > that the problem is solved or will the whole system have to be shut > down? How long does it take to restart an EFIS while in the air? I've > heard that if you have to restart the Avidyne system in the Cirrus in > flight you must fly straight and level for 5 minutes. That's hard to do > in bumpy IMC with an electric AI that's also spooling up at the same > time. Suppose you could use the Dynon or the Mid-continent lifesaver AI > with there own internal batteries but they are expensive, I think, soley > for backup instruments. > > IMHO I think I'll use some vacuum powered instruments as backup so as to > have a completely seperate power source. Vavuum pumps are cheap, > lightweight and simple. They would save me the trouble of dual > electrical systems and multiple busses. Yeah, I admit that the GRT's or > the Chelton's will find a place in my panel but so will a vacuum AI. > Probably use a wet pump with an air/oil seperator. Had one in my 182 > and it went to TBO and was still going strong when I sold the plane. > Murphy's law being what it is, for me this is the prudent choice. > > John Hasbrouck > #40264 > Using proseal as an aftershave. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LarryRosen(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Fairings & Removable Control Stick (was Trimming Canopy
- How much?)
Date: Jun 22, 2005
Tim, Dan Checkoway has a removable control stick on his RV-7. I looked on his site, but there are so many pages I could not find it quickly :-). I do not know if this solution will work on the 10. Dan any help? Tim: How many fairings (total) will you end up using? I like the glue and hard drive magnet trick you show on your site. Lots of progress over the past few days. Must be slow at work ;-) Larry Rosen #356 Quick build wings and fuselage soon! -------------- Original message -------------- > > Hi all, > > First, a question for those done with their canopy install.... > > When you trim the canopy around the fuselage door area, there should > be no "lip" on the edge of the fiberglass, right?? It'll end up flush > with the skin? It's deceiving while trimming, because it kind of > *feels* like you'd put a lip around it just because that's the way it's > molded, but I can't imagine it being that way when trimmed...too much > drag. > > The fitting is going pretty well. I trimmed it some last night. Never > got it quite trimmed enough to fit easily though. Tonight we'll take a > little more off the door sides and it should go on. Any trimming and > fitting tips would be fantastic. > > Also, I just updated the page today...including some trimming photos. > There's lots of stuff on this page this time, as I've been scattered > around on various sections waiting for my fuel valve issue to be > resolved. > > http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050621 > > Added stuff on rudder pedals, control installation, flap mechanisim, > photos of the seats I just got from Cleavelane/DJ's, and some photos of > the initial stages of fitting the top canopy. Even an attempt at my > fuel lines. Today I bit the bullet and ordered a new Andair > valve from Van's. At OSH I'll get a replacement fitting for my original > Wicks one (DON'T BUY A WICKS ANDAIR VALVE!!!), and then I'll sell this > brand new Andair valve to whoever wants it at a little break. > I just need a valve for fitting my fuel lines for the time being. > > Oh, and congrats to Jesse and crew...good luck on the flight! > > -- > Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 > Current project: Fuselage > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim, Dan Checkoway has a removable control stick on his RV-7. I looked on his site, but there are so many pages I could not find it quickly :-). I do not know if this solution will work on the 10. Dan any help? Tim: How many fairings (total) will you end up using? I like the glue and hard drive magnet trick you show on your site. Lots of progress over the past few days. Must be slow at work ;-) Larry Rosen #356 Quick build wings and fuselage soon! -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Hi all, First, a question for those done with their canopy install.... When you trim the canopy around the fuselage door area, there should be no "lip" on the edge of the fiberglass, right?? It'll end up flush with the skin? It's deceiving while trimming, because it kind of *feels* like you'd put a lip around it just because that's the way it's molded, but I can't imagine it being that way when trimmed...too much drag. The fitting is going pretty well. I trimmed it some last night. Never got it quite trimmed enough to fit easily though. Tonight we'll take a little more off the door sides and it should go on. Any trimming and fit ting tips would be fantastic. Also, I just updated the page today...including some trimming photos. There's lots of stuff on this page this time, as I've been scattered around on various sections waiting for my fuel valve issue to be resolved. http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050621 Added stuff on rudder pedals, control installation, flap mechanisim, photos of the seats I just got from Cleavelane/DJ's, and some photos of the initial stages of fitting the top canopy. Even an attempt at my fuel lines. Today I bit the bullet and ordered a new Andair valve from Van's. At OSH I'll get a replacement fitting for my original Wicks one (DON'T BUY A WICKS ANDAIR VALVE!!!), and then I'll sell this brand new Andair valve to whoever wants it at a little break. I just need a valve for fitting my fuel lines for the time being. & ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Trimming Canopy - How much?
Date: Jun 22, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Yes, It is rubber. Glues on the door with silicone. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen Subject: RE: RV10-List: Trimming Canopy - How much? Randy, is there a seal between the door and the frame? Rubber? Inflatable? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw Subject: RE: RV10-List: Trimming Canopy - How much? Tim, no lip on the outside of the fuse. It will be flush. There will be some of the radius left on the bottom of the door opening. You will end up with a gap about 1/8" thick between the mid cabin rail cap and the underside of the canopy frame. You will fill that with thickened epoxy before screwing it down. I had my canopy on and off 20 times before the fit was good. Grind a little check it. Grind some more and check it. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: Trimming Canopy - How much? Hi all, First, a question for those done with their canopy install.... When you trim the canopy around the fuselage door area, there should be no "lip" on the edge of the fiberglass, right?? It'll end up flush with the skin? It's deceiving while trimming, because it kind of *feels* like you'd put a lip around it just because that's the way it's molded, but I can't imagine it being that way when trimmed...too much drag. The fitting is going pretty well. I trimmed it some last night. Never got it quite trimmed enough to fit easily though. Tonight we'll take a little more off the door sides and it should go on. Any trimming and fitting tips would be fantastic. Also, I just updated the page today...including some trimming photos. There's lots of stuff on this page this time, as I've been scattered around on various sections waiting for my fuel valve issue to be resolved. http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050621 Added stuff on rudder pedals, control installation, flap mechanisim, photos of the seats I just got from Cleavelane/DJ's, and some photos of the initial stages of fitting the top canopy. Even an attempt at my fuel lines. Today I bit the bullet and ordered a new Andair valve from Van's. At OSH I'll get a replacement fitting for my original Wicks one (DON'T BUY A WICKS ANDAIR VALVE!!!), and then I'll sell this brand new Andair valve to whoever wants it at a little break. I just need a valve for fitting my fuel lines for the time being. Oh, and congrats to Jesse and crew...good luck on the flight! -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Fairings & Removable Control Stick (was Trimming Canopy
- How much?)
Date: Jun 22, 2005
The pilot's stick is not removable. Just the passenger side. What exactly are you looking for? I wouldn't call what I have a "solution," because I didn't do anything but assemble the components Van's provided. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: LarryRosen(at)comcast.net Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fairings & Removable Control Stick (was Trimming Canopy - How much?) Tim, Dan Checkoway has a removable control stick on his RV-7. I looked on his site, but there are so many pages I could not find it quickly :-). I do not know if this solution will work on the 10. Dan any help? Tim: How many fairings (total) will you end up using? I like the glue and hard drive magnet trick you show on your site. Lots of progress over the past few days. Must be slow at work ;-) Larry Rosen #356 Quick build wings and fuselage soon! -------------- Original message -------------- > > Hi all, > > First, a question for those done with their canopy install.... > > When you trim the canopy around the fuselage door area, there should > be no "lip" on the edge of the fiberglass, right?? It'll end up flush > with the skin? It's deceiving while trimming, because it kind of > *feels* like you'd put a lip around it just because that's the way it's > molded, but I can't imagine it being that way when trimmed...too much > drag. > > The fitting is going pretty well. I trimmed it some last night. Never > got it quite trimmed enough to fit easily though. Tonight we'll take a > little more off the door sides and it should go on. Any trimming and > fit ting tips would be fantastic. > > Also, I just updated the page today...including some trimming photos. > There's lots of stuff on this page this time, as I've been scattered > around on various sections waiting for my fuel valve issue to be > resolved. > > http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050621 > > Added stuff on rudder pedals, control installation, flap mechanisim, > photos of the seats I just got from Cleavelane/DJ's, and some photos of > the initial stages of fitting the top canopy. Even an attempt at my > fuel lines. Today I bit the bullet and ordered a new Andair > valve from Van's. At OSH I'll get a replacement fitting for my original > Wicks one (DON'T BUY A WICKS ANDAIR VALVE!!!), and then I'll sell this > brand new Andair valve to whoever wants it at a little break. > I just need a valve for fitting my fuel lines for the time being. > & ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LarryRosen(at)comcast.net
Subject: Headliner
Date: Jun 22, 2005
Nice audio talk by Jay Pratt on the RV10 assemble at http://www.vansairforce.com/rvtalk/14/rvtalk14.htm He recommends installing the headliner Before you set top on the fuselage. Larry Rosen Nice audio talk by Jay Pratt on the RV10 assemble at http://www.vansairforce.com/rvtalk/14/rvtalk14.htm He recommends installing the headliner Before you set top on the fuselage. Larry Rosen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rob Kermanj <rv10es(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Electric panels
Date: Jun 22, 2005
I have to agree with John. Although I have not had to shut down my entire electrical system in flight, I have heard of enough people do it. Nothing beats a vacuum back up. It is good to know that the plane will keep flying with the mags and can be right side up when everything else is down. My dry vacuum pump has 1300 hours on it and is still running well. I have had to replace three vacuum couplers but the pump itself is still running. The key is to have the pump breathe well and replace your coupler ($15) at annual inspections. On Jun 22, 2005, at 3:04 PM, John Hasbrouck wrote: > > > FWIW. I've followed the postings on this board regarding panel > choices and I have to mention a few reservations I have regarding > going all electric. In my 20 years of flying most of the problems I've > had in the air were electrical in nature. I've fried voltage > regulators, had alternators die and smoke in the cabin all of which > caused me to shut down the whole system. In that time I've had only > one vacuum pump go TU and that happened on startup. So my comments are > based on that history. I understand that the avionics are reliable > but what of the other componenets in the system? What do you do for a > suspected electrical fire in flight? Can you be sure that if you shut > down a primary bus that the problem is solved or will the whole system > have to be shut down? How long does it take to restart an EFIS while > in the air? I've heard that if you have to restart the Avidyne system > in the Cirrus in flight you must fly straight and level for 5 minutes. > That's hard to do in bumpy IMC with an electric AI that's also > spooling up at the same time. Suppose you could use the Dynon or the > Mid-continent lifesaver AI with there own internal batteries but they > are expensive, I think, soley for backup instruments. > > IMHO I think I'll use some vacuum powered instruments as backup so as > to have a completely seperate power source. Vavuum pumps are cheap, > lightweight and simple. They would save me the trouble of dual > electrical systems and multiple busses. Yeah, I admit that the GRT's > or the Chelton's will find a place in my panel but so will a vacuum > AI. Probably use a wet pump with an air/oil seperator. Had one in my > 182 and it went to TBO and was still going strong when I sold the > plane. Murphy's law being what it is, for me this is the prudent > choice. > > John Hasbrouck > #40264 > Using proseal as an aftershave. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LarryRosen(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Fairings & Removable Control Stick (was Trimming Canopy
- How much?)
Date: Jun 22, 2005
Dan, On Tim's web site <http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050621/index.html> he wrote: "Controls These were a lot of fun. I had already pre-made my spacers and rods while wasting time before, so the actual install of all of this didn't take too long. Just follow the directions and it'll go fine. It does leave me wondering though....I thought I'd heard that you could make these sticks removable, so you could yank out the co-pilot stick when necessary. I'd love to do this on trips with the kids. The problem is, with the curved stick, I don't know that this will ever be easy to do. I'll have to study it more later. None of the bolts are tightened at this time because I'm still waiting for resolution on my andair valve. " I thought I saw something about a removable passenger stick that you installed on your plane. I thought it was a modification, and I thought it could be applied to the 10. If I have you confused confused with someone else I apologize. Larry Rosen -------------- Original message -------------- > > The pilot's stick is not removable. Just the passenger side. What exactly > are you looking for? I wouldn't call what I have a "solution," because I > didn't do anything but assemble the components Van's provided. > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: LarryRosen(at)comcast.net > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 12:50 PM > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fairings & Removable Control Stick (was Trimming > Canopy - How much?) > > > Tim, > Dan Checkoway has a removable control stick on his RV-7. I looked on his > site, but there are so many pages I could not find it quickly :-). I do not > know if this solution will work on the 10. > > Dan any help? > > Tim: How many fairings (total) will you end up using? > I like the glue and hard drive magnet trick you show on your site. > > Lots of progress over the past few days. Must be slow at work ;-) > > Larry Rosen > #356 > Quick build wings and fuselage soon! > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > > > Hi all, > > > > First, a question for those done with their canopy install.... > > > > When you trim the canopy around the fuselage door area, there should > > be no "lip" on the edge of the fiberglass, right?? It'll end up flush > > with the skin? It's deceiving while trimming, because it kind of > > *feels* like you'd put a lip around it just because that's the way it's > > molded, but I can't imagine it being that way when trimmed...too much > > drag. > > > > The fitting is going pretty well. I trimmed it some last night. Never > > got it quite trimmed enough to fit easily though. Tonight we'll take a > > little more off the door sides and it should go on. Any trimming and > > fit ting tips would be fantastic. > > > > Also, I just updated the page today...including some trimming photos. > > There's lots of stuff on this page this time, as I've been scattered > > around on various sections waiting for my fuel valve issue to be > > resolved. > > > > http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050621 > > > > Added stuff on rudder pedals, control installation, flap mechanisim, > > photos of the seats I just got from Cleavelane/DJ's, and some photos of > > the initial stages of fitting the top canopy. Even an attempt at my > > fuel lines. Today I bit the bullet and ordered a new Andair > > valve from Van's. At OSH I'll get a replacement fitting for my original > > Wicks one (DON'T BUY A WICKS ANDAIR VALVE!!!), and then I'll sell this > > brand new Andair valve to whoever wants it at a little break. > > I just need a valve for fitting my fuel lines for the time being. > > > & > > > > > > > > > > > > Dan, On Tim's web site http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050621/index.html he wrote: "Controls These were a lot of fun. I had already pre-made my spacers and rods while wasting time before, so the actual install of all of this didn't take too long. Just follow the directions and it'll go fine. It does leave me wondering though....I thought I'd heard that you could make these sticks removable, so you could yank out the co-pilot stick when necessary. I'd love to do this on trips with the kids. The problem is, with the curved stick, I don't know that this will ever be easy to do. I'll have to study it more later. None of the bolts are tightened at this time because I'm still waiting for resolution on my andair valve. " I thought I saw something about a removable passenger stick that you installed on your plane. I thought it was a modification, and I thought it could be applied to the 10. If I have you confused confused with someone else I apologize. Larry Rosen -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV10-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" The pilot's stick is not removable. Just the passenger side. What exactly are you looking for? I wouldn't call what I have a "solution," because I didn't do anything but assemble the components Van's provided. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: LarryRosen(at)comcast.net To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 12:50 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fairings Removable Control Stick (was Trimming Canopy - How much?) Tim, Dan Checkoway has a removable control stick on his RV-7. I looked on his site, but there are so many pages I could not find it quickly :-). I do not know if this solution will work on the 10. Dan any help? Tim: How many fairings (total) will you end up using? I like the glue and hard drive magnet trick you show on your site. Lots of progress over the past few days. Must be slow at work ;-) Larry Rosen #356 Quick build wings and fuselage soon! -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Hi all, First, a question for those done with their canopy install.... When you trim the canopy around the fuselage door area, there should be no "lip" on the edge of the fiberglass, right?? It'll end up flush with the skin? It's deceiving while trimming, because it kind of *feels* like you'd put a lip around it just because that's the way it's molded, but I can't imagine it being that way when trimmed...too much drag. The fitting is going pretty well. I trimmed it some last night. Never got it quite trimmed enough to fit easily though. Tonight we'll take a little more off the door sides and it should go on. Any trimming and fit ting tips would be fantastic. Also, I just updated the page today...including some trimming photos. There's lots of stuff on this page this time, as I've been scattered around on various sections waiting for my fuel valve issue to be resolved. http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050621 Added stuff on rudder pedals, control installation, flap mechanisim, photos of the seats I just got from C ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LarryRosen(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Fairings & Removable Control Stick (was Trimming Canopy
- How much?)
Date: Jun 22, 2005
Dan, I saw this on Tim site http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050621/index.html "Controls These were a lot of fun. I had already pre-made my spacers and rods while wasting time before, so the actual install of all of this didn't take too long. Just follow the directions and it'll go fine. It does leave me wondering though....I thought I'd heard that you could make these sticks removable, so you could yank out the co-pilot stick when necessary. I'd love to do this on trips with the kids. The problem is, with the curved stick, I don't know that this will ever be easy to do. I'll have to study it more later. None of the bolts are tightened at this time because I'm still waiting for resolution on my andair valve." I thought I saw on your site a removable passenger control stick. I thought it was a modification, and I thought it could be adapted to the 10. Sorry if I was mistaken. Larry Rosen -------------- Original message -------------- > > The pilot's stick is not removable. Just the passenger side. What exactly > are you looking for? I wouldn't call what I have a "solution," because I > didn't do anything but assemble the components Van's provided. > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: LarryRosen(at)comcast.net > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 12:50 PM > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fairings & Removable Control Stick (was Trimming > Canopy - How much?) > > > Tim, > Dan Checkoway has a removable control stick on his RV-7. I looked on his > site, but there are so many pages I could not find it quickly :-). I do not > know if this solution will work on the 10. > > Dan any help? > > Tim: How many fairings (total) will you end up using? > I like the glue and hard drive magnet trick you show on your site. > > Lots of progress over the past few days. Must be slow at work ;-) > > Larry Rosen > #356 > Quick build wings and fuselage soon! > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > > > Hi all, > > > > First, a question for those done with their canopy install.... > > > > When you trim the canopy around the fuselage door area, there should > > be no "lip" on the edge of the fiberglass, right?? It'll end up flush > > with the skin? It's deceiving while trimming, because it kind of > > *feels* like you'd put a lip around it just because that's the way it's > > molded, but I can't imagine it being that way when trimmed...too much > > drag. > > > > The fitting is going pretty well. I trimmed it some last night. Never > > got it quite trimmed enough to fit easily though. Tonight we'll take a > > little more off the door sides and it should go on. Any trimming and > > fit ting tips would be fantastic. > > > > Also, I just updated the page today...including some trimming photos. > > There's lots of stuff on this page this time, as I've been scattered > > around on various sections waiting for my fuel valve issue to be > > resolved. > > > > http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050621 > > > > Added stuff on rudder pedals, control installation, flap mechanisim, > > photos of the seats I just got from Cleavelane/DJ's, and some photos of > > the initial stages of fitting the top canopy. Even an attempt at my > > fuel lines. Today I bit the bullet and ordered a new Andair > > valve from Van's. At OSH I'll get a replacement fitting for my original > > Wicks one (DON'T BUY A WICKS ANDAIR VALVE!!!), and then I'll sell this > > brand new Andair valve to whoever wants it at a little break. > > I just need a valve for fitting my fuel lines for the time being. > > > & > > > > > > > > > > > > Dan, I saw this on Tim site http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050621/index.html "Controls These were a lot of fun. I had already pre-made my spacers and rods while wasting time before, so the actual install of all of this didn't take too long. Just follow the directions and it'll go fine. It does leave me wondering though....I thought I'd heard that you could make these sticks removable, so you could yank out the co-pilot stick when necessary. I'd love to do this on trips with the kids. The problem is, with the curved stick, I don't know that this will ever be easy to do. I'll have to study it more later. None of the bolts are tightened at this time because I'm still waiting for resolution on my andair valve." I thought I saw on your site a removable passenger control stick. I thought it was a modification, and I thought it could be adapted to the 10. Sorry if I was mistaken. Larry Rosen -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV10-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" The pilot's stick is not removable. Just the passenger side. What exactly are you looking for? I wouldn't call what I have a "solution," because I didn't do anything but assemble the components Van's provided. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: LarryRosen(at)comcast.net To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 12:50 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fairings Removable Control Stick (was Trimming Canopy - How much?) Tim, Dan Checkoway has a removable control stick on his RV-7. I looked on his site, but there are so many pages I could not find it quickly :-). I do not know if this solution will work on the 10. Dan any help? Tim: How many fairings (total) will you end up using? I like the glue and hard drive magnet trick you show on your site. Lots of progress over the past few days. Must be slow at work ;-) Larry Rosen #356 Quick build wings and fuselage soon! -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Hi all, First, a question for those done with their canopy install.... When you trim the canopy around the fuselage door area, there should be no "lip" on the edge of the fiberglass, right?? It'll end up flush with the skin? It's deceiving while trimming, because it kind of *feels* like you'd put a lip around it just because that's the way it's molded, but I can't imagine it being that way when trimmed...too much drag. The fitting is going pretty well. I trimmed it some last night. Never got it quite trimmed enough to fit easily though. Tonight we'll take a little more off the door sides and it should go on. Any trimming and fit ting tips would be fantastic. Also, I just updated the page today...including some trimming photos. There's lots of stuff on this page this time, as I've been scattered around on various sections waiting for my fuel valve issue to be resolved. http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050621 Added stuff on rudder pedals, control installation, flap mechanisim, photos of the seats I just got from C ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Specketer" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Trimming Canopy - How much?
Date: Jun 22, 2005
Would it be a good thing to finish off the inside of the canopy before you rivit it on to the rest of the fusalage? Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: Trimming Canopy - How much? Hi all, First, a question for those done with their canopy install.... When you trim the canopy around the fuselage door area, there should be no "lip" on the edge of the fiberglass, right?? It'll end up flush with the skin? It's deceiving while trimming, because it kind of *feels* like you'd put a lip around it just because that's the way it's molded, but I can't imagine it being that way when trimmed...too much drag. The fitting is going pretty well. I trimmed it some last night. Never got it quite trimmed enough to fit easily though. Tonight we'll take a little more off the door sides and it should go on. Any trimming and fitting tips would be fantastic. Also, I just updated the page today...including some trimming photos. There's lots of stuff on this page this time, as I've been scattered around on various sections waiting for my fuel valve issue to be resolved. http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050621 Added stuff on rudder pedals, control installation, flap mechanisim, photos of the seats I just got from Cleavelane/DJ's, and some photos of the initial stages of fitting the top canopy. Even an attempt at my fuel lines. Today I bit the bullet and ordered a new Andair valve from Van's. At OSH I'll get a replacement fitting for my original Wicks one (DON'T BUY A WICKS ANDAIR VALVE!!!), and then I'll sell this brand new Andair valve to whoever wants it at a little break. I just need a valve for fitting my fuel lines for the time being. Oh, and congrats to Jesse and crew...good luck on the flight! -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
Subject: RV-10 #40241 flew today
Date: Jun 22, 2005
Stephen Saint of Ocala, FL flew N256H (RV-10 #40241) today for the first time. The flight lasted about 25 minutes with no problems. Steve thought the altimeter in our Dynon EFIS wasn't working because by the time he reached the end of the runway it read 2,300. It was working, of course, but he just used to flying the Cessna Skyhawk. Great performance out of a great design. Total build time was about 2,500 hours in less than 12 months, slow build. Thanks Van's! Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV-10 #40241 flew today
Date: Jun 22, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Congratulation Jesse and Crew. Chalk up another successful first flight. Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 #40241 flew today Stephen Saint of Ocala, FL flew N256H (RV-10 #40241) today for the first time. The flight lasted about 25 minutes with no problems. Steve thought the altimeter in our Dynon EFIS wasn't working because by the time he reached the end of the runway it read 2,300. It was working, of course, but he just used to flying the Cessna Skyhawk. Great performance out of a great design. Total build time was about 2,500 hours in less than 12 months, slow build. Thanks Van's! Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: RV-10 #40241 flew today
Date: Jun 22, 2005
Outstanding...! A good looking plane and a good looking crew to boot. Can't ask for much more than that. Stay safe! John _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 #40241 flew today Stephen Saint of Ocala, FL flew N256H (RV-10 #40241) today for the first time. The flight lasted about 25 minutes with no problems. Steve thought the altimeter in our Dynon EFIS wasn't working because by the time he reached the end of the runway it read 2,300. It was working, of course, but he just used to flying the Cessna Skyhawk. Great performance out of a great design. Total build time was about 2,500 hours in less than 12 months, slow build. Thanks Van's! Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Trimming Canopy - How much?
Date: Jun 22, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
That's is what I did. Worked Great. I just painted covered the rivet line with headliner. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Specketer Subject: RE: RV10-List: Trimming Canopy - How much? Would it be a good thing to finish off the inside of the canopy before you rivit it on to the rest of the fusalage? Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: Trimming Canopy - How much? Hi all, First, a question for those done with their canopy install.... When you trim the canopy around the fuselage door area, there should be no "lip" on the edge of the fiberglass, right?? It'll end up flush with the skin? It's deceiving while trimming, because it kind of *feels* like you'd put a lip around it just because that's the way it's molded, but I can't imagine it being that way when trimmed...too much drag. The fitting is going pretty well. I trimmed it some last night. Never got it quite trimmed enough to fit easily though. Tonight we'll take a little more off the door sides and it should go on. Any trimming and fitting tips would be fantastic. Also, I just updated the page today...including some trimming photos. There's lots of stuff on this page this time, as I've been scattered around on various sections waiting for my fuel valve issue to be resolved. http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050621 Added stuff on rudder pedals, control installation, flap mechanisim, photos of the seats I just got from Cleavelane/DJ's, and some photos of the initial stages of fitting the top canopy. Even an attempt at my fuel lines. Today I bit the bullet and ordered a new Andair valve from Van's. At OSH I'll get a replacement fitting for my original Wicks one (DON'T BUY A WICKS ANDAIR VALVE!!!), and then I'll sell this brand new Andair valve to whoever wants it at a little break. I just need a valve for fitting my fuel lines for the time being. Oh, and congrats to Jesse and crew...good luck on the flight! -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DOUGPFLYRV(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 22, 2005
Subject: Re: Airworthy!
CONGRATULATIONS JESSE. MUST BE A GREAT FEELING. DOUG PRESTON BHM 40372 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
Subject: Some flight details
Date: Jun 22, 2005
OK, here are some of the flight characteristics that we have recorded so far: Climb - 2,000fpm @ 100mph (bye-bye 172) High Speed flight (w/o wheel pants or gear leg fairings) - 185mph (full power, fine prop, full rich) Power-off Stall (no flaps) - 62mph Power-off Stall (15 deg) - 54mph Power-off Stall (30 deg) - 47mph (hello 172) High-Speed Pass (we won't go into details, but it was great) Please make note that I am not the pilot. My dad is. I don't even have my license yet. In fact, I haven't even soloed yet. I do believe that I probably have learned more about planes and aviation in the last year than most pilots will ever know, which will hopefully make me a better pilot when I get there. It is a shame, though, that I will finish my training in the 172 while I watch my dad flying circles around me in the RV-10, yet landing just as short. Another note. If you tach isn't showing full RPM, get an electronic tach and check it on the prop. Our tach getting info from the mags is reading 400rpm low. No wonder it was idling so smoothly at 600rpm and seemed so powerful at 2,050. Oh yeah, and find a good way to seal around the cabin heat ports on the firewall before you hang the engine and put on the cowling. OK, one final note. HAVE FUN BUILDING, because if it is as fun flying a plane you built as it is watching a plane you built fly, then it is going to be worth it. 10th RV-10 flying. I can handle that number (of course, that is going by Van's count including the two factory planes). Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Electric panels
Date: Jun 22, 2005
Good points in all the responses on this and I'm sure short of a zillion backups there's no best answer. FWIW, one plan I'm leaning toward is a GRT dual system as the primary and a Dynon EFIS as a backup. The reason for this is the Dynon system is the same (roughly) price as a Tru-Trak ADI but has a lot more info displayed, it's small so will fit to the left of the GRT displays, and it has a backup battery good for two hours. Of course a massive avionics killing power surge would still be my demise, but it seems like a reasonable risk so far. I'll probably do the tru-trak autopilot as well for three attitude platforms, two of which have completely independent power sources and also show all the pitot-static info. Marcus -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hasbrouck Subject: RV10-List: Electric panels FWIW. I've followed the postings on this board regarding panel choices and I have to mention a few reservations I have regarding going all electric. In my 20 years of flying most of the problems I've had in the air were electrical in nature. I've fried voltage regulators, had alternators die and smoke in the cabin all of which caused me to shut down the whole system. In that time I've had only one vacuum pump go TU and that happened on startup. So my comments are based on that history. I understand that the avionics are reliable but what of the other componenets in the system? What do you do for a suspected electrical fire in flight? Can you be sure that if you shut down a primary bus that the problem is solved or will the whole system have to be shut down? How long does it take to restart an EFIS while in the air? I've heard that if you have to restart the Avidyne system in the Cirrus in flight you must fly straight and level for 5 minutes. That's hard to do in bumpy IMC with an electric AI that's also spooling up at the same time. Suppose you could use the Dynon or the Mid-continent lifesaver AI with there own internal batteries but they are expensive, I think, soley for backup instruments. IMHO I think I'll use some vacuum powered instruments as backup so as to have a completely seperate power source. Vavuum pumps are cheap, lightweight and simple. They would save me the trouble of dual electrical systems and multiple busses. Yeah, I admit that the GRT's or the Chelton's will find a place in my panel but so will a vacuum AI. Probably use a wet pump with an air/oil seperator. Had one in my 182 and it went to TBO and was still going strong when I sold the plane. Murphy's law being what it is, for me this is the prudent choice. John Hasbrouck #40264 Using proseal as an aftershave. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: panel musing #1
Date: Jun 22, 2005
Rob, I may be off base here, but I think the dual GRT system also comes with the EIS display. It's not on your layout (or I missed it), but if you use that I would think it powers up immediately and you'll have your engine data right away while the EFIS displays warm up. Marcus -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert G. Wright Subject: RV10-List: panel musing #1 While waiting for my rudder Trailing Edge to set, I gave my panel some hard thought tonight, and came up with this so far. All commentary welcome, especially for logic checking. #1 I'm thinking about GRT right now. Currently a money thing. As much as I'm already stretching the budget with this being a long-term investment, the Chelton just seems a bridge too far. I'll go ahead and (splurge) put the sorcerer in in this scenario unless some good hard-evidenced improving is done soon on the autopilot-software interface. #2 I think I need to add some transducer gauges for oil and fuel pressure until the EFIS comes fully online during startup (what is the lag time on the EFIS?) #3 Even using flush-mount bezel pictures, the three screen system just doesn't want to fit the panel much less the wallet. Even with all the functionality and real estate, I think I'd rather focus my learning on the IFR legal map system in the GNS-480. There's enough other redundancy built into the panel (I think) that it wasn't hard for me to ditch the three screen desire. I'll wait for that until I buy my Adam 500, etc. #4 Switch and knob setup is such that other than for startup (two hands), I'll be dialing, pushing, and pulling with my right hand, flying, trimming, talking with the left. So what other big things are jumping out at you? I'm writing this at almost 11:00 p.m., so the brain's shot. Rob Wright 40392 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RV-10 #40241 flew today
Date: Jun 22, 2005
Awesome and congrats. The big question is, how did you fit all those people in the airplane on your first flight ;)!!!? Marcus Gotta get to work, too many OTHER RV-10s flying! -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 #40241 flew today Stephen Saint of Ocala, FL flew N256H (RV-10 #40241) today for the first time. The flight lasted about 25 minutes with no problems. Steve thought the altimeter in our Dynon EFIS wasn't working because by the time he reached the end of the runway it read 2,300. It was working, of course, but he just used to flying the Cessna Skyhawk. Great performance out of a great design. Total build time was about 2,500 hours in less than 12 months, slow build. Thanks Van's! Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: panel musing #1
Date: Jun 22, 2005
Marcus, thanks. I'm still reading and learning.I think the main reason I left it out was I thought that I just got the data feed, not the separate display. But by not using the textual display I save that much more room buy merely using one of the PFDs on the engine page. I read that I can wire this on an essential bus during startup. So maybe I messed up in a good way??? Rob _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper Subject: RE: RV10-List: panel musing #1 Rob, I may be off base here, but I think the dual GRT system also comes with the EIS display. It's not on your layout (or I missed it), but if you use that I would think it powers up immediately and you'll have your engine data right away while the EFIS displays warm up. Marcus -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert G. Wright Subject: RV10-List: panel musing #1 While waiting for my rudder Trailing Edge to set, I gave my panel some hard thought tonight, and came up with this so far. All commentary welcome, especially for logic checking. #1 I'm thinking about GRT right now. Currently a money thing. As much as I'm already stretching the budget with this being a long-term investment, the Chelton just seems a bridge too far. I'll go ahead and (splurge) put the sorcerer in in this scenario unless some good hard-evidenced improving is done soon on the autopilot-software interface. #2 I think I need to add some transducer gauges for oil and fuel pressure until the EFIS comes fully online during startup (what is the lag time on the EFIS?) #3 Even using flush-mount bezel pictures, the three screen system just doesn't want to fit the panel much less the wallet. Even with all the functionality and real estate, I think I'd rather focus my learning on the IFR legal map system in the GNS-480. There's enough other redundancy built into the panel (I think) that it wasn't hard for me to ditch the three screen desire. I'll wait for that until I buy my Adam 500, etc. #4 Switch and knob setup is such that other than for startup (two hands), I'll be dialing, pushing, and pulling with my right hand, flying, trimming, talking with the left. So what other big things are jumping out at you? I'm writing this at almost 11:00 p.m., so the brain's shot. Rob Wright 40392 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 22, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: panel musing #1
I'm slightly lost. Are you saying your EIS would not be mounted in your panel (the ugly little LCD screen EIS box?). If you have a dual GRT, as was pointed out, you can display the info. for the EIS graphically in full color on one of the screens. You might still want the small ugly box on the dash though, for 2 reasons....1) you need to acknowledge some alarms by pushing the buttons on the front. 2) even if ugly, it still is a dedicated display that can show you alarming parameters, or info you might be interested in. What would be interesting is if Rob Hickman's unit would work with the GRT dual-screen.....he says it'll work with the Chelton, and the Chelton uses a GRT unit with special software....wonder if it's similar enough that you could drive the GRT with his. If so, his would give a nicer display for your panel and a dedicated EIS page as well. I would have looked at it harder, but by the time it's available my panel will be done. Tim Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage Robert G. Wright wrote: > Marcus, thanks. Im still reading and learningI think the main reason > I left it out was I thought that I just got the data feed, not the > separate display. But by not using the textual display I save that much > more room buy merely using one of the PFDs on the engine page. I read > that I can wire this on an essential bus during startup. So maybe I > messed up in a good way??? > > > > Rob > > > > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Marcus Cooper > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 22, 2005 7:54 PM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: panel musing #1 > > > > Rob, > > I may be off base here, but I think the dual GRT system also comes > with the EIS display. Its not on your layout (or I missed it), but if > you use that I would think it powers up immediately and youll have your > engine data right away while the EFIS displays warm up. > > > > Marcus > > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert G. > Wright > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 21, 2005 11:52 PM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: panel musing #1 > > > > While waiting for my rudder Trailing Edge to set, I gave my panel some > hard thought tonight, and came up with this so far. All commentary > welcome, especially for logic checking. > > > > #1 Im thinking about GRT right now. Currently a money thing. As much > as Im already stretching the budget with this being a long-term > investment, the Chelton just seems a bridge too far. Ill go ahead and > (splurge) put the sorcerer in in this scenario unless some good > hard-evidenced improving is done soon on the autopilot-software interface. > > > > #2 I think I need to add some transducer gauges for oil and fuel > pressure until the EFIS comes fully online during startup (what is the > lag time on the EFIS?) > > > > #3 Even using flush-mount bezel pictures, the three screen system just > doesnt want to fit the panel much less the wallet. Even with all the > functionality and real estate, I think Id rather focus my learning on > the IFR legal map system in the GNS-480. Theres enough other > redundancy built into the panel (I think) that it wasnt hard for me to > ditch the three screen desire. Ill wait for that until I buy my Adam > 500, etc > > > > #4 Switch and knob setup is such that other than for startup (two > hands), Ill be dialing, pushing, and pulling with my right hand, > flying, trimming, talking with the left. > > > > So what other big things are jumping out at you? Im writing this at > almost 11:00 p.m., so the brains shot. > > > > Rob Wright > > 40392 > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net>
Subject: panel musing #1
Date: Jun 23, 2005
Yes there is a little notch in the center rib. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves Subject: Re: RV10-List: panel musing #1 Noel: Did you modify the ribs for placement of your GRT units? Best regards, Russ Daves ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel <mailto:noel(at)blueskyaviation.net> & Yoshie Simmons Subject: RE: RV10-List: panel musing #1 I am using the GRT EFIS in my super cub and RV-10. I have an Essential buss on a smaller battery that runs the EIS AHARS & #1 EFIS this gives me my engine pages on start up. So on the walk around the fist thing I do is check switches and cockpit controls and turn on the e-buss master. By the time I get back into the cockpit for start, it is up and ready. To answer your question about time for lite off it is about 45 seconds (seams to be forever if you sit there and wait. No don't put any other engine incitements in you panel just give your self some redundancy in the electrical system and use it. Noel _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert G. Wright Subject: RV10-List: panel musing #1 While waiting for my rudder Trailing Edge to set, I gave my panel some hard thought tonight, and came up with this so far. All commentary welcome, especially for logic checking. #1 I'm thinking about GRT right now. Currently a money thing. As much as I'm already stretching the budget with this being a long-term investment, the Chelton just seems a bridge too far. I'll go ahead and (splurge) put the sorcerer in in this scenario unless some good hard-evidenced improving is done soon on the autopilot-software interface. #2 I think I need to add some transducer gauges for oil and fuel pressure until the EFIS comes fully online during startup (what is the lag time on the EFIS?) #3 Even using flush-mount bezel pictures, the three screen system just doesn't want to fit the panel much less the wallet. Even with all the functionality and real estate, I think I'd rather focus my learning on the IFR legal map system in the GNS-480. There's enough other redundancy built into the panel (I think) that it wasn't hard for me to ditch the three screen desire. I'll wait for that until I buy my Adam 500, etc. #4 Switch and knob setup is such that other than for startup (two hands), I'll be dialing, pushing, and pulling with my right hand, flying, trimming, talking with the left. So what other big things are jumping out at you? I'm writing this at almost 11:00 p.m., so the brain's shot. Rob Wright 40392 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: What Starter is everyone using on there IO-540 RV10?
Date: Jun 23, 2005
From: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)mail.sprint.com>
I'm currently researching what starter to put on my IO-540A4D5 engine. So far I am leaning towards the High-Torque Inline Starter (149-NL) from SkyTec. Does anyone have any comments on this subject? Good or bad are welcome. Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: What Starter is everyone using on there IO-540 RV10?
Date: Jun 23, 2005
I called Skytec when I needed to get a starter. They told me the lightest and still the best starter is the one that vans sells. It is also the cheapest. Randy ________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R [NTK] Subject: RV10-List: What Starter is everyone using on there IO-540 RV10? I'm currently researching what starter to put on my IO-540A4D5 engine. So far I am leaning towards the High-Torque Inline Starter (149-NL) from SkyTec. Does anyone have any comments on this subject? Good or bad are welcome. Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
Subject: What Starter is everyone using on there IO-540 RV10?
Date: Jun 23, 2005
We are using the starter and alternator that Van's sells. Both seem to be working just fine (for those who were asking about the Van's alternators). Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R [NTK] Subject: RV10-List: What Starter is everyone using on there IO-540 RV10? I'm currently researching what starter to put on my IO-540A4D5 engine. So far I am leaning towards the High-Torque Inline Starter (149-NL) from SkyTec. Does anyone have any comments on this subject? Good or bad are welcome. Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com>
Subject: GRT EIS dual display
Date: Jun 23, 2005
For anyone interested: e-bay avionics has a new GRT dual display setup for auction. Don't see the EIS in the pictures. 9+ days to go, strating bid $7,000.00. FWIW ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: GRT EIS dual display
Date: Jun 23, 2005
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Looks like another pre OSH '05 convert to a Chelton upgrade. What do you think Tim? John - KUAO -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hasbrouck Subject: RV10-List: GRT EIS dual display For anyone interested: e-bay avionics has a new GRT dual display setup for auction. Don't see the EIS in the pictures. 9+ days to go, strating bid $7,000.00. FWIW ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 23, 2005
From: Larry <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Pneumatic Squeezer Help
Just got my pneumatic squeezer that I purchased off of eBay. It looks like it has seen better days. Recently there was a post from someone who took apart and rebuilt their squeezer. If you see this post please contact me off the list Larry Rosen LarryRosen AT comcast DOT net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 23, 2005
From: Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net>
Subject: Van's Conduit In Wing
Getting ready to order some of Van's conduit for the wings. I was wondering if the 25 ft. roll is enough. It seems like it would be really close. Not sure If I want to use that particular conduit in the fuse, so was hoping to just get the 25 ft. roll instead of the 50 ft. -Sean #40303 flaps ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
Subject: Van's Conduit In Wing
Date: Jun 23, 2005
We used some small PVC-type pipe in the wings. It was great for pushing cables through, which you couldn't do with the Van's conduit. I would recommend going with something that size but with a smooth an rigid inside surface. This way you can add wires without having to disconnect any or your wire ends. Also, you might want to have a break in the pipe at one of your inspection plates to hook up stuff in the middle of the wing like the stall warning and auto pilot servo. Just my $.02! Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens Subject: RV10-List: Van's Conduit In Wing Getting ready to order some of Van's conduit for the wings. I was wondering if the 25 ft. roll is enough. It seems like it would be really close. Not sure If I want to use that particular conduit in the fuse, so was hoping to just get the 25 ft. roll instead of the 50 ft. -Sean #40303 flaps ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
Subject: Empty weight
Date: Jun 23, 2005
I forgot to mention the empty weight (we don't have the back seats in or most of the radios, but we are at 1,397.5 right now with most of the plane painted. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 23, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Van's Conduit In Wing
Yes, a 25' roll will do the wings. I used the same stuff. You'll have about 1+ feet of spare. I'd definitely use larger stuff in the fuse.....did you see my orange stuff? Jesse's idea about smooth conduit isn't a bad idea either. I think this corrugated stuff will be nice too, but I think either would work. The benefit to the corrugated is that it wouldn't slide around back and forth, but tight smooth stuff would probably be fine too. If you check my page for that orange stuff for the fuse though, I really think that's about perfect for the fuse. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Sean Stephens wrote: > > Getting ready to order some of Van's conduit for the wings. I was > wondering if the 25 ft. roll is enough. It seems like it would be > really close. Not sure If I want to use that particular conduit in the > fuse, so was hoping to just get the 25 ft. roll instead of the 50 ft. > > -Sean #40303 flaps > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 23, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Paint colors and temperatures on the fiberglass
Over the past few days I've gotten a little good info from other list members for my tips link. I thought that this one was particularly interesting, given the amount of work John Cox put into it. John compared surface temperatures of planes, based on the color of the paint, and put together a great report. See this link: http://www.myrv10.com/tips/paint_temperatures.html I know a while back I'd asked about concerns regarding the use of dark paints on the canopy, and this report really shows some possible concerns. Also, if you go to this link: http://www.myrv10.com/tips you'll find some other cool info such as some info on static wicks that John Kirkland put together. We've got some great talent on this list, and it's great to have them contributing to our knowledge base. Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm34077(at)cox.net>
Subject: 410DP
Date: Jun 24, 2005
Saw it taxi in this morning. Doug says that he has about 4 hours on it. Was getting 165Kts in level flight. Carrying some extra weight in the baggage area for W&B. Perhaps he will give a detailed report after the weekend. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Trailing edge of the rudder
Date: Jun 24, 2005
Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 For those of you who have traveled the "no proseal" route to the trailing edge of the rudder, I have a question. Actually, for those who have prosealed the edge and maybe had some difficulty... Does the edge have any small gaps at all? When I look at the clecoed version, it appears that there would be small gaps between the rivets, even if you rolled the edge sufficiently, that the rivets' mechanical force would be enough to produce the gaps. Thus the proseal. I'd like to finish the rudder this weekend, along with the VS, so any final thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. John Jessen (VS & rudder almost history) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: Trailing edge of the rudder
Date: Jun 24, 2005
John, Carefully countersinking the wedge helped minimizing the small gaps. If the countersink holes are slightly too large, the skin will get pushed inside the hole, thus the small gaps. My aeilerons were much better. I measured the dia of my C/S hole and compared it to the dia of the under side of the dimple on the skin. The dimple fit inside the C/S hole much better. Anh #141 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com> Subject: RV10-List: Trailing edge of the rudder > > For those of you who have traveled the "no proseal" route to the trailing > edge of the rudder, I have a question. Actually, for those who have > prosealed the edge and maybe had some difficulty... > > Does the edge have any small gaps at all? When I look at the clecoed > version, it appears that there would be small gaps between the rivets, even > if you rolled the edge sufficiently, that the rivets' mechanical force would > be enough to produce the gaps. Thus the proseal. > > I'd like to finish the rudder this weekend, along with the VS, so any final > thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. > > John Jessen > (VS & rudder almost history) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2005
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Trailing edge of the rudder
John, Yes, I have very minimal gaps, the proseal filled them and they are maybe 1/64" if that. I rolled the edge with a Cleaveland edge tool prior to dimpling the skins. This aliminated all but the minute gaps in the trailing edge. Proseal is paintable so I figured it would save me at a minimum having to fill any gaps if they existed. As you rivet the edge it will get tighter than the clecos ever could hold it. As you do your final set with the mushroom set, make an effort to apply just a "tad" more pressure toward edge of the material. This helps to push the skin together a bit tighter. Like alot of other things it is a developed technique. I might suggest using some scrap AVEX stock and some skin to get a feel for it prior to doing it for real. I followed Vans direction in the manual to the letter and it worked perfectly without practicing. I admint I was feeling like an expert by the time I finished up the 18th running feet of flap trailing edges. I also used the matched drilled angle iron technique which helped keep them razor sharp and straight. Rick S. 40185 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Air Vent Location
Date: Jun 24, 2005
Randy/Others, I noticed you have the air vents installed right on the scoops on the side skins. Seems like they would be slightly hidden under the panel. How do you like locating them as such? Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Air Vent Location
Date: Jun 24, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
The holes are in the skins and the vents have the receivers in them for the vents. You can add some cover plates of the would surround them. Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Subject: RV10-List: Air Vent Location Randy/Others, I noticed you have the air vents installed right on the scoops on the side skins. Seems like they would be slightly hidden under the panel. How do you like locating them as such? Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: Air Vent Location
Date: Jun 24, 2005
Uhh... There are two pieces to each vent hole on the skin, right? The scoop, which is mated with the hole. And the swivel head, which can be remoted located and connected by a hose. Your swivel head seems to be mated right onto the scoop without a hose. ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy DeBauw To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 2:58 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Air Vent Location The holes are in the skins and the vents have the receivers in them for the vents. You can add some cover plates of the would surround them. Randy From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 11:56 AM To: RV10 Subject: RV10-List: Air Vent Location Randy/Others, I noticed you have the air vents installed right on the scoops on the side skins. Seems like they would be slightly hidden under the panel. How do you like locating them as such? Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2005
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Van's Conduit In Wing
FWIW, you can easily slide wire through Van's conduit. The trick is to put a small loop/bend on the end of the wire before pushing it through, other wise it will hang up on the corrugations in the conduit. Rick S. 40185 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Van's Conduit In Wing
Date: Jun 24, 2005
> FWIW, you can easily slide wire through Van's conduit. The trick is to put a small loop/bend on the end of the wire before pushing it through, other wise it will hang up on the corrugations in the conduit. Another trick is just to put some masking tape over the end of the wire. It'll slide right through. I originally had a "pull string" in my conduit, but after feeding wires through and seeing how easy it was with masking tape over the ends, I pulled the string out. No need imho. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Air Vent Location
Date: Jun 24, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Correct. You would have to break or cut of the parts that holds the vent. Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Subject: Re: RV10-List: Air Vent Location Uhh... There are two pieces to each vent hole on the skin, right? The scoop, which is mated with the hole. And the swivel head, which can be remoted located and connected by a hose. Your swivel head seems to be mated right onto the scoop without a hose. ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy DeBauw <mailto:Randy(at)abros.com> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 2:58 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Air Vent Location The holes are in the skins and the vents have the receivers in them for the vents. You can add some cover plates of the would surround them. Randy =09 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 11:56 AM To: RV10 Subject: RV10-List: Air Vent Location =09 =09 Randy/Others, I noticed you have the air vents installed right on the scoops on the side skins. Seems like they would be slightly hidden under the panel. How do you like locating them as such? Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2005
From: c <toaster73(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Van's Conduit In Wing
An electrician trick I saw once was to tie a little wad of cloth to string and then suck the string down the conduit with a shop vac at the other end. Then pull the wire through with the string. -Chris L #40072 Wings -----Original Message----- From: Dan Checkoway <dan(at)rvproject.com> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Van's Conduit In Wing > FWIW, you can easily slide wire through Van's conduit. The trick is to put a small loop/bend on the end of the wire before pushing it through, other wise it will hang up on the corrugations in the conduit. Another trick is just to put some masking tape over the end of the wire. It'll slide right through. I originally had a "pull string" in my conduit, but after feeding wires through and seeing how easy it was with masking tape over the ends, I pulled the string out. No need imho. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2005
From: Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Trailing edge of the rudder
I went the no-proseal route for my ailerons and they turned out much better than my prosealed rudder and elevators. No wait for proseal curing either! :) .02 -Sean #40303 Rick wrote: > >John, > >Yes, I have very minimal gaps, the proseal filled them and they are maybe 1/64" if that. I rolled the edge with a Cleaveland edge tool prior to dimpling the skins. This aliminated all but the minute gaps in the trailing edge. Proseal is paintable so I figured it would save me at a minimum having to fill any gaps if they existed. As you rivet the edge it will get tighter than the clecos ever could hold it. As you do your final set with the mushroom set, make an effort to apply just a "tad" more pressure toward edge of the material. This helps to push the skin together a bit tighter. Like alot of other things it is a developed technique. I might suggest using some scrap AVEX stock and some skin to get a feel for it prior to doing it for real. I followed Vans direction in the manual to the letter and it worked perfectly without practicing. I admint I was feeling like an expert by the time I finished up the 18th running feet of flap trailing edges. I also used the matched drill! > ed angle iron technique which helped keep them razor sharp and straight. > >Rick S. >40185 >Wings > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Trailing edge of the rudder
Date: Jun 24, 2005
>>Does the edge have any small gaps at all? When I look at the clecoed > version, it appears that there would be small gaps between the rivets, even > if you rolled the edge sufficiently, that the rivets' mechanical force would > be enough to produce the gaps. Thus the proseal.<< I spoke to Van's himself at S&F about this. He, after listening patiently to the symptoms my trailing edge, (which is exactly yours) said it was OK, and to use an epoxy glue (sandable) on the EDGE after it is all riveted and letting it harden. Have done it and my trailing edge is like a razor edge. Just to clarify again, I used the angle iron and the proseal. He (Vans) liked the proseal there for some reason. Mani Ravee, MD Indianapolis, KUMP #40339. N528AR -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Subject: Re: RV10-List: Trailing edge of the rudder John, Carefully countersinking the wedge helped minimizing the small gaps. If the countersink holes are slightly too large, the skin will get pushed inside the hole, thus the small gaps. My aeilerons were much better. I measured the dia of my C/S hole and compared it to the dia of the under side of the dimple on the skin. The dimple fit inside the C/S hole much better. Anh #141 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com> Subject: RV10-List: Trailing edge of the rudder > > For those of you who have traveled the "no proseal" route to the trailing > edge of the rudder, I have a question. Actually, for those who have > prosealed the edge and maybe had some difficulty... > > Does the edge have any small gaps at all? When I look at the clecoed > version, it appears that there would be small gaps between the rivets, even > if you rolled the edge sufficiently, that the rivets' mechanical force would > be enough to produce the gaps. Thus the proseal. > > I'd like to finish the rudder this weekend, along with the VS, so any final > thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. > > John Jessen > (VS & rudder almost history) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "brian bollaert" <bbollaert(at)comcast.net>
Subject: firewall protection
Date: Jun 24, 2005
Hello Group : > > Caught this on the Matronics list , i am think of doing this seems worthwhile (you never know ) !!20 > > Brian Bollaert > > http://www.epm-avcorp.com/tubeseal.html > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2005
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Trailing edge of the rudder
I clecoed together the trailing edge and then used masking tape between the holes to hold the edge together. I then back riveted on a long 2 foot back rivet plate. A 2x4 about 2 foot long was held parallel to the edge about 6 inches up the control surface with even pressure. The edge has some very small gaps, but it works for me. Better than the proseal route. IMHO. Larry Rosen Working on Emp Attach QB Wings and Fuse first week of July John Jessen wrote: > >For those of you who have traveled the "no proseal" route to the trailing >edge of the rudder, I have a question. Actually, for those who have >prosealed the edge and maybe had some difficulty... > >Does the edge have any small gaps at all? When I look at the clecoed >version, it appears that there would be small gaps between the rivets, even >if you rolled the edge sufficiently, that the rivets' mechanical force would >be enough to produce the gaps. Thus the proseal. > >I'd like to finish the rudder this weekend, along with the VS, so any final >thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. > >John Jessen > (VS & rudder almost history) > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2005
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Trailing edge of the rudder
I just finished my rudder trailing edge. (with some trepidation based upon all of the warnings about 'curves and hooks!). Many Thanks to Tim Olsen and Mike Howe for their tips on the angle iron and back riveting every other rivet. I used "Pro Seal" or what Van's currently shipps called "Dyna Seal". The Trailing edge came out perfectly straight, no bends or hooks, but I do have some 'gaps' / irregularities in the skins between some of the rivets, that I attribute to Pro/Dyna Seal. Based upon the feedback I'm reading, on this list. And unless I hear a really good reason for keeping the Pro/Dyna seal. I think I'l forego it on the ailerons & flaps. Deems Davis #406 HS started Larry Rosen wrote: > > I clecoed together the trailing edge and then used masking tape > between the holes to hold the edge together. I then back riveted on a > long 2 foot back rivet plate. A 2x4 about 2 foot long was held > parallel to the edge about 6 inches up the control surface with even > pressure. The edge has some very small gaps, but it works for me. > Better than the proseal route. IMHO. > > Larry Rosen > Working on Emp Attach > QB Wings and Fuse first week of July > > John Jessen wrote: > >> >> For those of you who have traveled the "no proseal" route to the >> trailing >> edge of the rudder, I have a question. Actually, for those who have >> prosealed the edge and maybe had some difficulty... >> >> Does the edge have any small gaps at all? When I look at the clecoed >> version, it appears that there would be small gaps between the >> rivets, even >> if you rolled the edge sufficiently, that the rivets' mechanical >> force would >> be enough to produce the gaps. Thus the proseal. >> I'd like to finish the rudder this weekend, along with the VS, so any >> final >> thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. >> >> John Jessen >> (VS & rudder almost history) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 25, 2005
From: Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net>
Subject: For Those Looking at HID Lights...
Check out the news on the front page of CreativAir. <http://www.creativair.com/cva/> Looks like there might be yet another HID option soon. -Sean #40303 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Trailing edge of the rudder
Date: Jun 25, 2005
I used a combination of both methods, pro-seal and long bucking bar. Very easy and I had great results. My skills are limited, so I need all the help I can get. No gaps to fill..... Rene' 40322 N423CF -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen Subject: RV10-List: Trailing edge of the rudder For those of you who have traveled the "no proseal" route to the trailing edge of the rudder, I have a question. Actually, for those who have prosealed the edge and maybe had some difficulty... Does the edge have any small gaps at all? When I look at the clecoed version, it appears that there would be small gaps between the rivets, even if you rolled the edge sufficiently, that the rivets' mechanical force would be enough to produce the gaps. Thus the proseal. I'd like to finish the rudder this weekend, along with the VS, so any final thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. John Jessen (VS & rudder almost history) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Trailing edge of the rudder
Date: Jun 25, 2005
Thanks to everyone who answered my query. I may be able to do the trailing edge this weekend, if I get a move on. I believe that I'll try the no proseal route, using a long bucking bar. I had a reason to drop by Vans (picked up some odds and ends) and ended up talking to Ken Scott about this. He said that the proseal is only there to help hold things in place during the assembly, it's not at all structural, so if you can do the job without it, then fine. John Jessen (any one notice that deburring takes freaking forever.............) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker Subject: RE: RV10-List: Trailing edge of the rudder I used a combination of both methods, pro-seal and long bucking bar. Very easy and I had great results. My skills are limited, so I need all the help I can get. No gaps to fill..... Rene' 40322 N423CF -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen Subject: RV10-List: Trailing edge of the rudder For those of you who have traveled the "no proseal" route to the trailing edge of the rudder, I have a question. Actually, for those who have prosealed the edge and maybe had some difficulty... Does the edge have any small gaps at all? When I look at the clecoed version, it appears that there would be small gaps between the rivets, even if you rolled the edge sufficiently, that the rivets' mechanical force would be enough to produce the gaps. Thus the proseal. I'd like to finish the rudder this weekend, along with the VS, so any final thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. John Jessen (VS & rudder almost history) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Gurley" <rngurley(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Storage of kit items while you are working on them
Date: Jun 25, 2005
What method do people use to store the large skins while you are building? Dick Gurley 40414 Just starting empennage. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 25, 2005
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Storage of kit items while you are working on them
I had the same question when I saw that not everything would fit under the bed, and worried about the skins getting dented if I left them in the shop somewhere down low. I ended up putting everything that would fit safely under the bed/s and then building a high 12" shelf with a forward "lip" on it. I rest the parts on the shelf leaning against the wall. The lip keeps them from accidently slipping. ( I've got some high (10') celiings in the 'shop' and the shelf is high enough to be out of the way.) Congratulations on your decision, hope you hae as much fun with the process and I'm having. Deems Davis #406 Starting HS Dick Gurley wrote: > What method do people use to store the large skins while you are building? > > > > Dick Gurley > > 40414 > > Just starting empennage. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris" <toaster73(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Storage of kit items while you are working on them
Date: Jun 25, 2005
I built shelfs with the kit crating material above the garage doors when the doors are in the up position.It was easy since I have exposed upstairs floor truss to nail to. Chris Lucas #40072 Wings (ailerons) ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Gurley To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 6:42 PM Subject: RV10-List: Storage of kit items while you are working on them What method do people use to store the large skins while you are building? Dick Gurley 40414 Just starting empennage. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: QB Fuselage Landing Gear Mounts
Date: Jun 25, 2005
Just a quick question on whether the gear mounts need to come out for any reason on the QB kit prior to adding the remaining hardware. I saw in some pictures that folks had taken them out, what is the benefit/requirement to do so? Yes, I am lazy and am trying to avoid anything that I don't have to absolutely do! Marcus ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2005
From: Scott Lewis <rv10(at)tpg.com.au>
Subject: Re: Storage of kit items while you are working on them
G'day, I added supports to the large empennage box and hung it from the roof with pulleys. It can be put up and down by one person, but two makes it much easier. See pic attached. Have fun, Scott Lewis RV-10 40172 VH-DRS Adelaide, South Australia Dick Gurley wrote: > What method do people use to store the large skins while you are building? > > > > Dick Gurley > > 40414 > > Just starting empennage. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2005
From: William Curtis <wcurtis(at)core.com>
Subject: RE: Storage of kit items while you are working on them
>What method do people use to store the large skins while >you are building? > >Dick Gurley I used the crate that the kit came in to build a high shelf in the garage to hold the parts. Worked quite well as I was able to fit all but the spars on it and out of the way. http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/07Wings/wings04.html http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/07Wings/wings05.html William http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Gaunlet to Scott
Date: Jun 25, 2005
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Jim Ayers has posted repeatedly about (4X) forward commitments on the MT prop option. His hand has been out for money but no product to challenge Hartzell fore with. Vapor ware (for props), I know better with MT. Gerd must have all of his dealers on a really short leash. The high ground is getting even steeper by each day with the inaction. Orders are being placed. Now, 95% of all the RV-10s on the radar screen are going with Hartzell. This is a travesty. I fly an MT and it is a quantum jump over the Whirlwind. I Can't believe no MT is available to take on this opportunity. MORE THAN 400 opportunities lost (maybe 500 by September). I just have to believe it can outperform a metal two blade on resonance alone. When it came to the rubber meeting the road, there has been no traction on a demonstration of the merits of an MT prop over Hartzell on ANY RV-10 powered by either a carbureted (Doug) or fuel injected Lycoming 540 CID over the heavier Hartzell (regardless of airfoil design). Scott the baton is in now in your court. PLEASE. Many of us are now waiting with anticipation for your first flight and the day when you can take on all comers with Hartzell metal just to blow the BS from the questions and produce results on the lighter and sexier prop option. Don't tell us its still November 2005 for the first flight. Jim is in hiding. We know VAN is tied to Hartzell, Jim remains safely silent in his cave. Do all of you guys really believe he doesn't read these posts. Don't tell us you have another bike ride taking priority over this important build issue. Lets kick the dog and see the bite or at least hear a muffled bark. Renae would want nothing less. John - KUAO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robin Wessel" <robin.wessel(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: QB Fuselage Landing Gear Mounts
Date: Jun 25, 2005
Yep- you have to take them out and perform a few operations. Before re-installing you have to: Install floor plates Nut plates for the mounts Drill four holes thru the center section- this procedure requires a 6" #21 bit and a angle drill with a collet chuck. Insulation (optional) I forgot to drill the holes and ended up removing it twice! Robin Wessel Tigard, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: QB Fuselage Landing Gear Mounts
I don't think they really have to come out except I had to take mine out to get my front floor pans in. If your pans aren't in, you need them out. So, I soundproofed under them, then put the pans on, then the gear legs. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage Marcus Cooper wrote: > > Just a quick question on whether the gear mounts need to come out for any > reason on the QB kit prior to adding the remaining hardware. I saw in some > pictures that folks had taken them out, what is the benefit/requirement to > do so? Yes, I am lazy and am trying to avoid anything that I don't have to > absolutely do! > > Marcus > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: QB Fuselage Landing Gear Mounts
Date: Jun 26, 2005
Thanks for all the replies, looks like the mounts are coming out today. It sure is nice having folks out in front of this process to build the learning curve. Marcus -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Wessel Subject: RV10-List: Re: QB Fuselage Landing Gear Mounts Yep- you have to take them out and perform a few operations. Before re-installing you have to: Install floor plates Nut plates for the mounts Drill four holes thru the center section- this procedure requires a 6" #21 bit and a angle drill with a collet chuck. Insulation (optional) I forgot to drill the holes and ended up removing it twice! Robin Wessel Tigard, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: QB Fuselage Landing Gear Mounts
Date: Jun 26, 2005
Robin, Again, thanks for the help. I do have one question though, for the life of me I can't find the four #21 holes you mention through the center section. Could you give me some more details on what to look for? Any chance these are the #12 holes, two on each side, that have a spacer tube that run between the center sections along the top of the gear mount? If so, mine are already drilled and had bolts in them (although incredibly tight fit, I destroyed the threads on one bolt getting it out). Thanks, Marcus -----Original Message----- From: Robin Wessel [mailto:robin.wessel(at)comcast.net] Subject: Re: QB Fuselage Landing Gear Mounts Yep- you have to take them out and perform a few operations. Before re-installing you have to: Install floor plates Nut plates for the mounts Drill four holes thru the center section- this procedure requires a 6" #21 bit and a angle drill with a collet chuck. Insulation (optional) I forgot to drill the holes and ended up removing it twice! Robin Wessel Tigard, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robin Wessel" <robin.wessel(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RE: QB Fuselage Landing Gear Mounts
Date: Jun 26, 2005
. . . I can't find the four #21 holes you mention through the center section. Could you give me some more details on what to look for? Any chance these are the #12 holes, . . . . Your right- I meant to say #12 not #21. I have QB fuse ser #175. Not sure if later production runs have them pre-drilled. robin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Gear-on Height
Can someone with their -10 on gear (preferably without engine mounted yet, but I'll take anything) measure from floor to belly under rear seats, and, if possible, from floor to top of canopy. I'd like to make sure that I'll be able to fit this out my garage door if I put the gear on in the next couple weeks....I only have a 7' door I think. I'll put the info on my "workspace requirements" tips page after I get it. Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass
Randy, did you do anything else on the outer border of your headliner other than cut it to trim it up? Do you have any post-construction real up-close-and-personal photos of some of the details that you'd like to get posted on your page?? If so, send them on and I'll put them up. Anyone have any good recommendations for filling those crotch wells around the door gutter (on the inside) that are hard to sand? I'm thinking of just hitting them with a sanding wheel, then laying it flat one angle at a time, and filling with an expoxy/filler mix that will self level enough to get rid of that glass-mat look. I just used a 120 grit belt sander to get the door post areas looking respectable, and then a palm sander with 80 grit. They're looking pretty good now, so it's going to be west system epoxy with filler and then 180-240 grit sanding on those outer areas. Those crotches look like a pain though. Gary S., what's the name of that fiberglass pinhole roll-on filler that you recommended? Advice for the day: Try to pick your headliner material at the same time you decide on an interior paint color. I'm now finding that I'm moving faster again, and it was no time between interior paint and when I'll be probably painting the canopy interior on the non-headliner areas. I'm now realizing that if I don't have my headliner in-hand within a week or 10 days, I'm going to be limited as to how far I can push ahead. Same thing with my panel. I'm getting near the timeframe when I need to rivet my panel on permanently, so I can permanently attach the canopy. You REALLY need your avionics picked out, and panel all done, if you want to make this as easy as possible....so you can cut your subpanel while that whole panel assembly is out of the plane. I won't have my panel in hand to know where to cut my subpanel for a while yet, so I'm going to be hindered by that as well. If I get stuck, I guess it's a good time to go back and install empennage tip fairings, and finish sanding my wingtips....I also hadn't installed that training edge rib in the wingtip yet. This fuselage takes some good coordination of deliveries of key components if you want it to go 100% smoothly, which mine is not. Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Specketer" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass
Date: Jun 26, 2005
Go to www.polyfiber.com They have a product called UV Smoothprime that is great for fillint pin holes and the weave in fiberglass. I highly recommend it. Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass Randy, did you do anything else on the outer border of your headliner other than cut it to trim it up? Do you have any post-construction real up-close-and-personal photos of some of the details that you'd like to get posted on your page?? If so, send them on and I'll put them up. Anyone have any good recommendations for filling those crotch wells around the door gutter (on the inside) that are hard to sand? I'm thinking of just hitting them with a sanding wheel, then laying it flat one angle at a time, and filling with an expoxy/filler mix that will self level enough to get rid of that glass-mat look. I just used a 120 grit belt sander to get the door post areas looking respectable, and then a palm sander with 80 grit. They're looking pretty good now, so it's going to be west system epoxy with filler and then 180-240 grit sanding on those outer areas. Those crotches look like a pain though. Gary S., what's the name of that fiberglass pinhole roll-on filler that you recommended? Advice for the day: Try to pick your headliner material at the same time you decide on an interior paint color. I'm now finding that I'm moving faster again, and it was no time between interior paint and when I'll be probably painting the canopy interior on the non-headliner areas. I'm now realizing that if I don't have my headliner in-hand within a week or 10 days, I'm going to be limited as to how far I can push ahead. Same thing with my panel. I'm getting near the timeframe when I need to rivet my panel on permanently, so I can permanently attach the canopy. You REALLY need your avionics picked out, and panel all done, if you want to make this as easy as possible....so you can cut your subpanel while that whole panel assembly is out of the plane. I won't have my panel in hand to know where to cut my subpanel for a while yet, so I'm going to be hindered by that as well. If I get stuck, I guess it's a good time to go back and install empennage tip fairings, and finish sanding my wingtips....I also hadn't installed that training edge rib in the wingtip yet. This fuselage takes some good coordination of deliveries of key components if you want it to go 100% smoothly, which mine is not. Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: Gluing doors
Date: Jun 26, 2005
From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com>
What's the recommended epoxy for gluing the door halves together? TDT 40025 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Gary Specketer Subject: RE: RV10-List: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass Go to www.polyfiber.com They have a product called UV Smoothprime that is great for fillint pin holes and the weave in fiberglass. I highly recommend it. Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass Randy, did you do anything else on the outer border of your headliner other than cut it to trim it up? Do you have any post-construction real up-close-and-personal photos of some of the details that you'd like to get posted on your page?? If so, send them on and I'll put them up. Anyone have any good recommendations for filling those crotch wells around the door gutter (on the inside) that are hard to sand? I'm thinking of just hitting them with a sanding wheel, then laying it flat one angle at a time, and filling with an expoxy/filler mix that will self level enough to get rid of that glass-mat look. I just used a 120 grit belt sander to get the door post areas looking respectable, and then a palm sander with 80 grit. They're looking pretty good now, so it's going to be west system epoxy with filler and then 180-240 grit sanding on those outer areas. Those crotches look like a pain though. Gary S., what's the name of that fiberglass pinhole roll-on filler that you recommended? Advice for the day: Try to pick your headliner material at the same time you decide on an interior paint color. I'm now finding that I'm moving faster again, and it was no time between interior paint and when I'll be probably painting the canopy interior on the non-headliner areas. I'm now realizing that if I don't have my headliner in-hand within a week or 10 days, I'm going to be limited as to how far I can push ahead. Same thing with my panel. I'm getting near the timeframe when I need to rivet my panel on permanently, so I can permanently attach the canopy. You REALLY need your avionics picked out, and panel all done, if you want to make this as easy as possible....so you can cut your subpanel while that whole panel assembly is out of the plane. I won't have my panel in hand to know where to cut my subpanel for a while yet, so I'm going to be hindered by that as well. If I get stuck, I guess it's a good time to go back and install empennage tip fairings, and finish sanding my wingtips....I also hadn't installed that training edge rib in the wingtip yet. This fuselage takes some good coordination of deliveries of key components if you want it to go 100% smoothly, which mine is not. Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Gluing doors
Date: Jun 26, 2005
TDT, the instructions say to use epoxy mixed with cab-o-sil. Anh #141 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> Subject: RV10-List: RE: Gluing doors What's the recommended epoxy for gluing the door halves together? TDT 40025 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Gary Specketer Subject: RE: RV10-List: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass Go to www.polyfiber.com They have a product called UV Smoothprime that is great for fillint pin holes and the weave in fiberglass. I highly recommend it. Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass Randy, did you do anything else on the outer border of your headliner other than cut it to trim it up? Do you have any post-construction real up-close-and-personal photos of some of the details that you'd like to get posted on your page?? If so, send them on and I'll put them up. Anyone have any good recommendations for filling those crotch wells around the door gutter (on the inside) that are hard to sand? I'm thinking of just hitting them with a sanding wheel, then laying it flat one angle at a time, and filling with an expoxy/filler mix that will self level enough to get rid of that glass-mat look. I just used a 120 grit belt sander to get the door post areas looking respectable, and then a palm sander with 80 grit. They're looking pretty good now, so it's going to be west system epoxy with filler and then 180-240 grit sanding on those outer areas. Those crotches look like a pain though. Gary S., what's the name of that fiberglass pinhole roll-on filler that you recommended? Advice for the day: Try to pick your headliner material at the same time you decide on an interior paint color. I'm now finding that I'm moving faster again, and it was no time between interior paint and when I'll be probably painting the canopy interior on the non-headliner areas. I'm now realizing that if I don't have my headliner in-hand within a week or 10 days, I'm going to be limited as to how far I can push ahead. Same thing with my panel. I'm getting near the timeframe when I need to rivet my panel on permanently, so I can permanently attach the canopy. You REALLY need your avionics picked out, and panel all done, if you want to make this as easy as possible....so you can cut your subpanel while that whole panel assembly is out of the plane. I won't have my panel in hand to know where to cut my subpanel for a while yet, so I'm going to be hindered by that as well. If I get stuck, I guess it's a good time to go back and install empennage tip fairings, and finish sanding my wingtips....I also hadn't installed that training edge rib in the wingtip yet. This fuselage takes some good coordination of deliveries of key components if you want it to go 100% smoothly, which mine is not. Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ==================================== ==================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass
Date: Jun 27, 2005
Tim, the 1.25" drum worked well for me on the inside of the gutters. It only does a small streak at a time but more effective than the belt sander or orbital. Keep the drum moving or it will create "flat" spots. I then went over them again with 80grit taped to a 2X2 block. Then again 80grit with just your hands. Then 150grit. Then two coats of Poly Fiber Smooth-Prime, as Gary mentioned. Then sand that down with 150grit. Anh #141 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> Subject: RV10-List: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass > > Randy, did you do anything else on the outer border of your headliner > other than cut it to trim it up? Do you have any post-construction > real up-close-and-personal photos of some of the details that you'd > like to get posted on your page?? If so, send them on and I'll put > them up. > > Anyone have any good recommendations for filling those crotch wells > around the door gutter (on the inside) that are hard to sand? I'm > thinking of just hitting them with a sanding wheel, then laying it flat > one angle at a time, and filling with an expoxy/filler mix that will > self level enough to get rid of that glass-mat look. I just > used a 120 grit belt sander to get the door post areas looking > respectable, and then a palm sander with 80 grit. They're looking > pretty good now, so it's going to be west system epoxy with filler > and then 180-240 grit sanding on those outer areas. Those crotches > look like a pain though. > > Gary S., what's the name of that fiberglass pinhole roll-on filler > that you recommended? > > > Advice for the day: Try to pick your headliner material at the > same time you decide on an interior paint color. I'm now finding that > I'm moving faster again, and it was no time between interior paint > and when I'll be probably painting the canopy interior on the > non-headliner areas. I'm now realizing that if I don't have my > headliner in-hand within a week or 10 days, I'm going to be > limited as to how far I can push ahead. Same thing with my panel. > I'm getting near the timeframe when I need to rivet my panel on > permanently, so I can permanently attach the canopy. You REALLY > need your avionics picked out, and panel all done, if you want > to make this as easy as possible....so you can cut your subpanel > while that whole panel assembly is out of the plane. I won't have > my panel in hand to know where to cut my subpanel for a while > yet, so I'm going to be hindered by that as well. If I get > stuck, I guess it's a good time to go back and install > empennage tip fairings, and finish sanding my wingtips....I also > hadn't installed that training edge rib in the wingtip yet. > > This fuselage takes some good coordination of deliveries of > key components if you want it to go 100% smoothly, which > mine is not. > > Tim > -- > > Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 > Current project: Fuselage > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass
Date: Jun 27, 2005
From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com>
How much Smooth Prime should one get to cover the cabin roof, cowl, etc? That stuff's not cheap! TDT 40025 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Gary Specketer Subject: RE: RV10-List: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass Go to www.polyfiber.com They have a product called UV Smoothprime that is great for fillint pin holes and the weave in fiberglass. I highly recommend it. Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass Randy, did you do anything else on the outer border of your headliner other than cut it to trim it up? Do you have any post-construction real up-close-and-personal photos of some of the details that you'd like to get posted on your page?? If so, send them on and I'll put them up. Anyone have any good recommendations for filling those crotch wells around the door gutter (on the inside) that are hard to sand? I'm thinking of just hitting them with a sanding wheel, then laying it flat one angle at a time, and filling with an expoxy/filler mix that will self level enough to get rid of that glass-mat look. I just used a 120 grit belt sander to get the door post areas looking respectable, and then a palm sander with 80 grit. They're looking pretty good now, so it's going to be west system epoxy with filler and then 180-240 grit sanding on those outer areas. Those crotches look like a pain though. Gary S., what's the name of that fiberglass pinhole roll-on filler that you recommended? Advice for the day: Try to pick your headliner material at the same time you decide on an interior paint color. I'm now finding that I'm moving faster again, and it was no time between interior paint and when I'll be probably painting the canopy interior on the non-headliner areas. I'm now realizing that if I don't have my headliner in-hand within a week or 10 days, I'm going to be limited as to how far I can push ahead. Same thing with my panel. I'm getting near the timeframe when I need to rivet my panel on permanently, so I can permanently attach the canopy. You REALLY need your avionics picked out, and panel all done, if you want to make this as easy as possible....so you can cut your subpanel while that whole panel assembly is out of the plane. I won't have my panel in hand to know where to cut my subpanel for a while yet, so I'm going to be hindered by that as well. If I get stuck, I guess it's a good time to go back and install empennage tip fairings, and finish sanding my wingtips....I also hadn't installed that training edge rib in the wingtip yet. This fuselage takes some good coordination of deliveries of key components if you want it to go 100% smoothly, which mine is not. Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass
Date: Jun 27, 2005
Tim, the directions on the qt-size can say it takes 3 qts to do the entire plane, assuming you're building a glass plane I guess. I bought one qt and have used it on the doors and gutters (inside). I think I might get by with just one qt. Anh #141 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass How much Smooth Prime should one get to cover the cabin roof, cowl, etc? That stuff's not cheap! TDT 40025 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Gary Specketer Subject: RE: RV10-List: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass Go to www.polyfiber.com They have a product called UV Smoothprime that is great for fillint pin holes and the weave in fiberglass. I highly recommend it. Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass Randy, did you do anything else on the outer border of your headliner other than cut it to trim it up? Do you have any post-construction real up-close-and-personal photos of some of the details that you'd like to get posted on your page?? If so, send them on and I'll put them up. Anyone have any good recommendations for filling those crotch wells around the door gutter (on the inside) that are hard to sand? I'm thinking of just hitting them with a sanding wheel, then laying it flat one angle at a time, and filling with an expoxy/filler mix that will self level enough to get rid of that glass-mat look. I just used a 120 grit belt sander to get the door post areas looking respectable, and then a palm sander with 80 grit. They're looking pretty good now, so it's going to be west system epoxy with filler and then 180-240 grit sanding on those outer areas. Those crotches look like a pain though. Gary S., what's the name of that fiberglass pinhole roll-on filler that you recommended? Advice for the day: Try to pick your headliner material at the same time you decide on an interior paint color. I'm now finding that I'm moving faster again, and it was no time between interior paint and when I'll be probably painting the canopy interior on the non-headliner areas. I'm now realizing that if I don't have my headliner in-hand within a week or 10 days, I'm going to be limited as to how far I can push ahead. Same thing with my panel. I'm getting near the timeframe when I need to rivet my panel on permanently, so I can permanently attach the canopy. You REALLY need your avionics picked out, and panel all done, if you want to make this as easy as possible....so you can cut your subpanel while that whole panel assembly is out of the plane. I won't have my panel in hand to know where to cut my subpanel for a while yet, so I'm going to be hindered by that as well. If I get stuck, I guess it's a good time to go back and install empennage tip fairings, and finish sanding my wingtips....I also hadn't installed that training edge rib in the wingtip yet. This fuselage takes some good coordination of deliveries of key components if you want it to go 100% smoothly, which mine is not. Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ==================================== ==================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 27, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Doors right after canopy fit.
I was thinking this a.m. (scary) Since I'm going to have to do some finish sanding, and wait for my headliner anyway, and I really can't rivet my panel top on until I get my panel (or I'll have a tougher time cutting my subpanel), maybe now that my canopy is fitted, it would be a good time to just move on and fit the doors. Does this sound reasonable? I think I'll actually just cleco the canopy on and that should be good enough to star the doors, right? They supposedly take a long time, so I may as well do them before I get too far into anything else. Plus, I noticed Randy had to grind his door edge lip a bit to get the hinges to close when doing the doors, so if I fit the doors now, before the canopy is riveted, it may make it a little easier to just finish and paint it all at once on the inside. I wouldn't have to re-trim around the canopy door area after it's painted. Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Gear-on Height
Date: Jun 27, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Tim, I could roll the plane in and out of the garage with the wheels and canopy on. My door is also 7' tall. You have 2 to 3 inches of clearance. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: Gear-on Height Can someone with their -10 on gear (preferably without engine mounted yet, but I'll take anything) measure from floor to belly under rear seats, and, if possible, from floor to top of canopy. I'd like to make sure that I'll be able to fit this out my garage door if I put the gear on in the next couple weeks....I only have a 7' door I think. I'll put the info on my "workspace requirements" tips page after I get it. Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CustomACProp(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 27, 2005
Subject: RV-10 MT Propeller Group Buy
Hi All, Is now the time for the RV-10 MT Propeller Group Buy? It's up to you. I am offering the MTV-12-B/193-53 propeller and spinner delivered fully assembled to your closest international airport for $7,100 plus shipping*. By shipping the RV-10 propeller assembled directly from Germany, you receive your propeller ready to bolt onto the front of your RV-10 and fly. The total weight of this propeller assembly is 48 pounds, compared to 56 pounds for the Hartzell aluminum 2 blade propeller. The RV-10 MT 3 blade propeller is available with blades painted Dull Gray with Gloss White tips. The Spinner can be painted White, Red, Black, Gray, Yellow, or left in Primer only. These are standard colors, so there is no extra cost. (Contact me directly for no additional cost blade color choices.) "Cost" was given as the reason Van's Aircraft does not actively support MT Propeller. I am doing everything I can to reduce the cost. The list price for theis propeller is $9,380. I am offering a 24% discount off of list price. *Depending on location in the USA, shipping assembled to the closest international airport is $1,050 plus or minus $150. Regards, Jim Ayers (805) 795-5377 _CustomACProp(at)aol.com_ (mailto:CustomACProp(at)aol.com) Custom Aircraft Propeller - A division of Less Drag Products, Inc. _www.lessdrag.com_ (http://www.lessdrag.com) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass
Date: Jun 27, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
I sprayed the backside of the headliner for about 1/2" and folded it back on itself. Then just glued the folded edge down. I have so small touchup areas to still do. Re-gluing in a couple of edge areas and in the back on the rivet line I had to pull up the headliner get to a couple of rivets. If I was to do it again I would not glue down the headliner a long the rivet line running under the back windows. Leave it open for access until the last minute. The factory stopped the headliner under the backing strip that runs along under the rear window. I continued mine down to the longerons. I will be adding a rubber cap material along the longerons. I have some c shaped material I glued on the glare shield edge. I looks nicer the fuel line. I bought it a Spencer Aircraft but it is available at Spruce. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass Randy, did you do anything else on the outer border of your headliner other than cut it to trim it up? Do you have any post-construction real up-close-and-personal photos of some of the details that you'd like to get posted on your page?? If so, send them on and I'll put them up. Anyone have any good recommendations for filling those crotch wells around the door gutter (on the inside) that are hard to sand? I'm thinking of just hitting them with a sanding wheel, then laying it flat one angle at a time, and filling with an expoxy/filler mix that will self level enough to get rid of that glass-mat look. I just used a 120 grit belt sander to get the door post areas looking respectable, and then a palm sander with 80 grit. They're looking pretty good now, so it's going to be west system epoxy with filler and then 180-240 grit sanding on those outer areas. Those crotches look like a pain though. Gary S., what's the name of that fiberglass pinhole roll-on filler that you recommended? Advice for the day: Try to pick your headliner material at the same time you decide on an interior paint color. I'm now finding that I'm moving faster again, and it was no time between interior paint and when I'll be probably painting the canopy interior on the non-headliner areas. I'm now realizing that if I don't have my headliner in-hand within a week or 10 days, I'm going to be limited as to how far I can push ahead. Same thing with my panel. I'm getting near the timeframe when I need to rivet my panel on permanently, so I can permanently attach the canopy. You REALLY need your avionics picked out, and panel all done, if you want to make this as easy as possible....so you can cut your subpanel while that whole panel assembly is out of the plane. I won't have my panel in hand to know where to cut my subpanel for a while yet, so I'm going to be hindered by that as well. If I get stuck, I guess it's a good time to go back and install empennage tip fairings, and finish sanding my wingtips....I also hadn't installed that training edge rib in the wingtip yet. This fuselage takes some good coordination of deliveries of key components if you want it to go 100% smoothly, which mine is not. Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass
Date: Jun 27, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
I couldn't remember the name but that is what Vans uses to cover their cowls before painting. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Specketer Subject: RE: RV10-List: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass Go to www.polyfiber.com They have a product called UV Smoothprime that is great for fillint pin holes and the weave in fiberglass. I highly recommend it. Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass Randy, did you do anything else on the outer border of your headliner other than cut it to trim it up? Do you have any post-construction real up-close-and-personal photos of some of the details that you'd like to get posted on your page?? If so, send them on and I'll put them up. Anyone have any good recommendations for filling those crotch wells around the door gutter (on the inside) that are hard to sand? I'm thinking of just hitting them with a sanding wheel, then laying it flat one angle at a time, and filling with an expoxy/filler mix that will self level enough to get rid of that glass-mat look. I just used a 120 grit belt sander to get the door post areas looking respectable, and then a palm sander with 80 grit. They're looking pretty good now, so it's going to be west system epoxy with filler and then 180-240 grit sanding on those outer areas. Those crotches look like a pain though. Gary S., what's the name of that fiberglass pinhole roll-on filler that you recommended? Advice for the day: Try to pick your headliner material at the same time you decide on an interior paint color. I'm now finding that I'm moving faster again, and it was no time between interior paint and when I'll be probably painting the canopy interior on the non-headliner areas. I'm now realizing that if I don't have my headliner in-hand within a week or 10 days, I'm going to be limited as to how far I can push ahead. Same thing with my panel. I'm getting near the timeframe when I need to rivet my panel on permanently, so I can permanently attach the canopy. You REALLY need your avionics picked out, and panel all done, if you want to make this as easy as possible....so you can cut your subpanel while that whole panel assembly is out of the plane. I won't have my panel in hand to know where to cut my subpanel for a while yet, so I'm going to be hindered by that as well. If I get stuck, I guess it's a good time to go back and install empennage tip fairings, and finish sanding my wingtips....I also hadn't installed that training edge rib in the wingtip yet. This fuselage takes some good coordination of deliveries of key components if you want it to go 100% smoothly, which mine is not. Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: Gluing doors
Date: Jun 27, 2005
Use West Systems. It works great for all of you epoxy needs. Available at West Marine if you have one in you area. Randy ________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend Subject: RE: Gluing doors What's the recommended epoxy for gluing the door halves together? TDT 40025 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Gary Specketer Subject: RE: RV10-List: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass Go to www.polyfiber.com They have a product called UV Smoothprime that is great for fillint pin holes and the weave in fiberglass. I highly recommend it. Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass Randy, did you do anything else on the outer border of your headliner other than cut it to trim it up? Do you have any post-construction real up-close-and-personal photos of some of the details that you'd like to get posted on your page?? If so, send them on and I'll put them up. Anyone have any good recommendations for filling those crotch wells around the door gutter (on the inside) that are hard to sand? I'm thinking of just hitting them with a sanding wheel, then laying it flat one angle at a time, and filling with an expoxy/filler mix that will self level enough to get rid of that glass-mat look. I just used a 120 grit belt sander to get the door post areas looking respectable, and then a palm sander with 80 grit. They're looking pretty good now, so it's going to be west system epoxy with filler and then 180-240 grit sanding on those outer areas. Those crotches look like a pain though. Gary S., what's the name of that fiberglass pinhole roll-on filler that you recommended? Advice for the day: Try to pick your headliner material at the same time you decide on an interior paint color. I'm now finding that I'm moving faster again, and it was no time between interior paint and when I'll be probably painting the canopy interior on the non-headliner areas. I'm now realizing that if I don't have my headliner in-hand within a week or 10 days, I'm going to be limited as to how far I can push ahead. Same thing with my panel. I'm getting near the timeframe when I need to rivet my panel on permanently, so I can permanently attach the canopy. You REALLY need your avionics picked out, and panel all done, if you want to make this as easy as possible....so you can cut your subpanel while that whole panel assembly is out of the plane. I won't have my panel in hand to know where to cut my subpanel for a while yet, so I'm going to be hindered by that as well. If I get stuck, I guess it's a good time to go back and install empennage tip fairings, and finish sanding my wingtips....I also hadn't installed that training edge rib in the wingtip yet. This fuselage takes some good coordination of deliveries of key components if you want it to go 100% smoothly, which mine is not. Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CustomACProp(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 27, 2005
Subject: Data mistake in RV-10 MT Propeller group buy email
Hi All, I accidently listed the 56 pound weight of the 72" diameter aluminum 2 blade Hartzell for the Lycoming (I)O-360 engine. The 80" diameter aluminum 2 blade Hartzell propeller assembly weighed 66 pounds. The 3 blade RV-10 MT Propeller assembly still weighed in at 48 pounds. (Or 47.7 pounds for the data nuts.) Regards, Jim Ayers _CustomACProp(at)aol.com_ (mailto:CustomACProp(at)aol.com) (805) 795-5377 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Date: Jun 27, 2005
From: "Schroeder, Bob (Parts Clerk)" <BSchroeder(at)uta.cog.ut.us>
0.03 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_HTML BODY": rv10-list(at)matronics.com It's sad but I find that I must sell my complete rv-10 tail and just received slow build wings and tools. I have just started on the fuel tanks. My financial situation dictates that I must sell. So for those that haven't purchased their tail yet here's a great opportunity to get a leg up on the build. Please email me at bschroeder(at)uta.cog.ut.us or call 801-743-3117 daytime or 801-965-8636 evenings for particulars! Bob schroeder Wings 40254 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Gadgets for sale
Date: Jun 27, 2005
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
I have been a member of this list and several others, and have been able to take advantage of some group buys, and thought it was my turn to contribute to the group buys. I was looking for new gadgets, and began looking at the AVMAP EKPIV. It has a 7" screen (which is almost twice the 296) and terrain with their newest update. I talked with the owners of our FBO here, and was complaining how expensive it was to get a good portable GPS. Long story short, she went to her suppliers and arranged for a good deal on two different portable GPS's, and they asked if I knew of others that would like to upgrade or buy. So of course I told her I would post it on the groups and get contact info of those interested. Here is the deal, must be purchased by July 30: AVMAP EKPIV at $1350 plus shipping, normal price is $1499 plus shipping or Lowrance Airmap 2000C $810 plus shipping, normal price is $999 plus shipping If anyone is interested please email me and I will get you setup. Dan Lloyd ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
Subject: Manifold Pressure
Date: Jun 27, 2005
We are having problems with our manifold pressure on the Dynon. The guage is bouncing about 2-4 lbs whenever the engine is running. It tells us more or less where we are, but it never stays in one place long enough to actually get a reading. Has anybody else ever experienced this problem or heard of somebody else experiencing it. They techs at Dynon say they have never heard of it. The techs at Van's say they have never heard of it. It doesn't have anything to do with vibration in the sensor or obstructions in the hose. It could be a bad sensor, but I thought it would be worth asking. Thanks. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Manifold Pressure
Date: Jun 27, 2005
Did you use a restrictor fitting on the engine side of the manifold pressure hose? )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jesse Saint To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 3:26 PM Subject: RV10-List: Manifold Pressure We are having problems with our manifold pressure on the Dynon. The guage is bouncing about 2-4 lbs whenever the engine is running. It tells us more or less where we are, but it never stays in one place long enough to actually get a reading. Has anybody else ever experienced this problem or heard of somebody else experiencing it. They techs at Dynon say they have never heard of it. The techs at Van's say they have never heard of it. It doesn't have anything to do with vibration in the sensor or obstructions in the hose. It could be a bad sensor, but I thought it would be worth asking. Thanks. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Manifold Pressure
Date: Jun 27, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
I am with Dan on this one Jesse. Did you use Van's firewall forward kit? Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Subject: Re: RV10-List: Manifold Pressure Did you use a restrictor fitting on the engine side of the manifold pressure hose? )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jesse Saint <mailto:jesse(at)itecusa.org> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 3:26 PM Subject: RV10-List: Manifold Pressure We are having problems with our manifold pressure on the Dynon. The guage is bouncing about 2-4 lbs whenever the engine is running. It tells us more or less where we are, but it never stays in one place long enough to actually get a reading. Has anybody else ever experienced this problem or heard of somebody else experiencing it. They techs at Dynon say they have never heard of it. The techs at Van's say they have never heard of it. It doesn't have anything to do with vibration in the sensor or obstructions in the hose. It could be a bad sensor, but I thought it would be worth asking. Thanks. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 27, 2005
From: James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net>
Subject: Aux fuel tanks?
Hi y'all... For those putting in aux. fuel tanks, what are the options and what are the pros/cons? I'm thinking of a 2/3 size tank outboard of each main tank on the wings, but have no clue how much that would affect balance. What do y'all think? -Jim 40384, just finished horizontal stabilizer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
Subject: Manifold Pressure
Date: Jun 27, 2005
The FWF kit only called for a -4D nipple, no restrictor fitting. Should I put on a VA-128? I do have the restrictor fitting going through the firewall. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Subject: Re: RV10-List: Manifold Pressure Did you use a restrictor fitting on the engine side of the manifold pressure hose? )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jesse Saint <mailto:jesse(at)itecusa.org> Subject: RV10-List: Manifold Pressure We are having problems with our manifold pressure on the Dynon. The guage is bouncing about 2-4 lbs whenever the engine is running. It tells us more or less where we are, but it never stays in one place long enough to actually get a reading. Has anybody else ever experienced this problem or heard of somebody else experiencing it. They techs at Dynon say they have never heard of it. The techs at Van's say they have never heard of it. It doesn't have anything to do with vibration in the sensor or obstructions in the hose. It could be a bad sensor, but I thought it would be worth asking. Thanks. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GenGrumpy(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 27, 2005
Subject: Re: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass
Where's the picture of the headliner???? Looks like a good party, though..... In a message dated 6/27/2005 9:24:56 PM Central Standard Time, wvu(at)ameritel.net writes: Tim, yes I did mine side-to-side. One other nice minor thing about running the liner sideways is that the grain of the fabric goes fore/aft, which is more pleasing to my eyes. Of course no one can really see that except you yourself. I bought 6 yds from the same place that Randy suggested - way too much. I think 4yds would do. Better check me and measure for yourself though. They come in either 54" or 60" wide. Either would fit from the baggage bulkhead to the seam line that you're talking about. Attached is a pic of some of us at SNF. Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Malwitz" <dmalwitz(at)toast.net>
Subject: Aux fuel tanks?
Date: Jun 27, 2005
Jim, I have studied stability and control over the years. As I recall, adding weight out towards the wingtips is destabilizing. It could produce an undesirable amount of dutch roll. I think of a lot of weight in the wingtips as like trying to get an arrow to fly sideways. There is no doubt that adding fuel out there will increase the roll inertia which means that you will have to yank the stick harder to produce a given roll rate. Then it may no longer feel like an RV. I would certainly check with Van's to get their take on the subject. It would be nice to have another 10 gallons, like a C-182. Regards, Dan Malwitz Senior Design Engineer Moog Inc. Planning to start a 10 in 2006 Hi y'all... For those putting in aux. fuel tanks, what are the options and what are the pros/cons? I'm thinking of a 2/3 size tank outboard of each main tank on the wings, but have no clue how much that would affect balance. What do y'all think? -Jim 40384, just finished horizontal stabilizer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass
Date: Jun 28, 2005
OK, some pictures of my headliner partially completed. Also some pictures of the carpeting. It appears black but is dark blue. I bought the carpet material from www.airtex.com . $19/yd. You can send in $3.00 for sample chips. Anh ----- Original Message ----- From: GenGrumpy(at)aol.com To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 10:29 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass Where's the picture of the headliner???? Looks like a good party, though..... In a message dated 6/27/2005 9:24:56 PM Central Standard Time, wvu(at)ameritel.net writes: Tim, yes I did mine side-to-side. One other nice minor thing about running the liner sideways is that the grain of the fabric goes fore/aft, which is more pleasing to my eyes. Of course no one can really see that except you yourself. I bought 6 yds from the same place that Randy suggested - way too much. I think 4yds would do. Better check me and measure for yourself though. They come in either 54" or 60" wide. Either would fit from the baggage bulkhead to the seam line that you're talking about. Attached is a pic of some of us at SNF. Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: -10 Static Ports
Date: Jun 28, 2005
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
0.03 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_HTML BODY": rv10-list(at)matronics.com Randy, Jesse, and anyone else that is flying, What did you use for your static ports? I am looking at using the safair1 kit but have heard that flush, or near flush, mount static ports introduce a large error in the 1 and 2 seat RV's. I asked Tony at SafeAir1 this question and got a bit of the run around (posted below for reference). The quality of his stuff looks to be quite good and I can live with a couple knot discrepancy, but I don't want to introduce a couple hundred foot error in my altimeter. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Tailcone Michael, Thank you for your interest in SafeAir1 products. Like the great "primer wars", this subject comes up about every 6 months. Our static ports protrude beyond the skin by about .015" (skin thickness .032"). We have sold hundreds static ports and NEVER had a single complaint from customer or a returned kit. I used flush ports on my RV-6 and have been flying since the spring of 2000 without an accident. Are my readings improper? I'm not sure how I'd know? All of my performance parameters are where Van predicted they should be. Perhaps my system is off 1 knot, 3 knots, or .005 knots? Or maybe it's the chase airplane with the pop rivets that's off by 2.7 knots? Are all pop rivets squeezed to the exact same thickness before the mandrel shears? Has Van's changed pop rivet suppliers? How thick is the boundary layer along the RV-X side skins where the ports are mounted? Are the boundary layers always the same? What if the aircraft with flush ports had a leaky static system? I'm not trying to beat you up for asking the question. I can only point to my success, and the success of our customers and say our ports seem to work in a satisfactory manner. Having said that, We've sold a lot of ports to RV-10 builders, but I don't know if any of them have flown yet. I am not aware of any static ports, including Van's pop rivet of the day, that have been designed and tested for use in experimental aircraft static systems. If you're not comfortable with our static ports, I suggest you stick with pop rivets per Van's plans. Regards, Tony Munday SafeAir1 -----Original Message----- From: Michael Sausen Subject: RV-10 pitot-static kit I'm interested in your pitot-static kit for the -10 I am building and was wondering if your machined static ports protrude above the skin similar to the Van's pop rivet style. The reason I ask is the flush mounts have shown to cause an improper reading on other RV models. Thanks, Michael Sausen ________________________________________________________________________________ ;
Date: Jun 28, 2005
From: Darton Steve <sfdarton(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Aux fuel tanks?
Having owned and flown a Cessna 310 for the last three years and 500 hours I'm not concerned about stability issues. C310 main tanks are the tip tanks, 50 gallons per side, the aux tanks are in the wings only 15 gallons per side. This is a very stable aircraft. My question would be about adding the loading to the end of the spar? Steve 40212 Wings --- Dan Malwitz wrote: > > > Jim, > > I have studied stability and control over the years. > As I recall, adding > weight out towards the wingtips is destabilizing. > It could produce an > undesirable amount of dutch roll. I think of a lot > of weight in the > wingtips as like trying to get an arrow to fly > sideways. There is no doubt > that adding fuel out there will increase the roll > inertia which means that > you will have to yank the stick harder to produce a > given roll rate. Then > it may no longer feel like an RV. I would certainly > check with Van's to get > their take on the subject. It would be nice to have > another 10 gallons, > like a C-182. > > Regards, > > Dan Malwitz > Senior Design Engineer > Moog Inc. > Planning to start a 10 in 2006 > > > > > > Hi y'all... > For those putting in aux. fuel tanks, what are > the options and what > are the pros/cons? > I'm thinking of a 2/3 size tank outboard of each > main tank on the wings, > but have no clue how much that would affect balance. > > What do y'all think? > > -Jim 40384, just finished horizontal stabilizer. > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > > > > > Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: -10 Static Ports
Date: Jun 28, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Van's. Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Subject: RV10-List: -10 Static Ports Randy, Jesse, and anyone else that is flying, What did you use for your static ports? I am looking at using the safair1 kit but have heard that flush, or near flush, mount static ports introduce a large error in the 1 and 2 seat RV's. I asked Tony at SafeAir1 this question and got a bit of the run around (posted below for reference). The quality of his stuff looks to be quite good and I can live with a couple knot discrepancy, but I don't want to introduce a couple hundred foot error in my altimeter. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Tailcone Michael, Thank you for your interest in SafeAir1 products. Like the great "primer wars", this subject comes up about every 6 months. Our static ports protrude beyond the skin by about .015" (skin thickness .032"). We have sold hundreds static ports and NEVER had a single complaint from customer or a returned kit. I used flush ports on my RV-6 and have been flying since the spring of 2000 without an accident. Are my readings improper? I'm not sure how I'd know? All of my performance parameters are where Van predicted they should be. Perhaps my system is off 1 knot, 3 knots, or .005 knots? Or maybe it's the chase airplane with the pop rivets that's off by 2.7 knots? Are all pop rivets squeezed to the exact same thickness before the mandrel shears? Has Van's changed pop rivet suppliers? How thick is the boundary layer along the RV-X side skins where the ports are mounted? Are the boundary layers always the same? What if the aircraft with flush ports had a leaky static system? I'm not trying to beat you up for asking the question. I can only point to my success, and the success of our customers and say our ports seem to work in a satisfactory manner. Having said that, We've sold a lot of ports to RV-10 builders, but I don't know if any of them have flown yet. I am not aware of any static ports, including Van's pop rivet of the day, that have been designed and tested for use in experimental aircraft static systems. If you're not comfortable with our static ports, I suggest you stick with pop rivets per Van's plans. Regards, Tony Munday SafeAir1 -----Original Message----- From: Michael Sausen Subject: RV-10 pitot-static kit I'm interested in your pitot-static kit for the -10 I am building and was wondering if your machined static ports protrude above the skin similar to the Van's pop rivet style. The reason I ask is the flush mounts have shown to cause an improper reading on other RV models. Thanks, Michael Sausen ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass
Date: Jun 28, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Looking good Anh. Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Subject: Re: RV10-List: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass OK, some pictures of my headliner partially completed. Also some pictures of the carpeting. It appears black but is dark blue. I bought the carpet material from www.airtex.com . $19/yd. You can send in $3.00 for sample chips. Anh ----- Original Message ----- From: GenGrumpy(at)aol.com To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 10:29 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass Where's the picture of the headliner???? Looks like a good party, though..... In a message dated 6/27/2005 9:24:56 PM Central Standard Time, wvu(at)ameritel.net writes: Tim, yes I did mine side-to-side. One other nice minor thing about running the liner sideways is that the grain of the fabric goes fore/aft, which is more pleasing to my eyes. Of course no one can really see that except you yourself. I bought 6 yds from the same place that Randy suggested - way too much. I think 4yds would do. Better check me and measure for yourself though. They come in either 54" or 60" wide. Either would fit from the baggage bulkhead to the seam line that you're talking about. =09 Attached is a pic of some of us at SNF. Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Manifold Pressure
Date: Jun 28, 2005
It's trivial to do. May as well give it a shot and see if that remedies the problem. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jesse Saint Subject: RE: RV10-List: Manifold Pressure The FWF kit only called for a -4D nipple, no restrictor fitting. Should I put on a VA-128? I do have the restrictor fitting going through the firewall. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Subject: Re: RV10-List: Manifold Pressure Did you use a restrictor fitting on the engine side of the manifold pressure hose? )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jesse Saint Subject: RV10-List: Manifold Pressure We are having problems with our manifold pressure on the Dynon. The guage is bouncing about 2-4 lbs whenever the engine is running. It tells us more or less where we are, but it never stays in one place long enough to actually get a reading. Has anybody else ever experienced this problem or heard of somebody else experiencing it. They techs at Dynon say they have never heard of it. The techs at Van's say they have never heard of it. It doesn't have anything to do with vibration in the sensor or obstructions in the hose. It could be a bad sensor, but I thought it would be worth asking. Thanks. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Gaunlet to Scott
Date: Jun 28, 2005
From: "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com>
Well John I probably will not fly until November at the earliest. My panel is 8-10 weeks out from Aerocrafter but things are coming along nicely. I hope to start with paint sometime in August or September, do final panel install and finish work in October / November. I actually thing November is pushing it for me. The finishing work really does take a lot of time. I don't see why there will be any problems with the MT though. With 1-3 people I will not need any weight in the back. With 4 and baggage I may build a place in the engine compartment that can be easily outfitted with 15-20 lbs. of tungsten carbide. Anyway, I am working on the cowling right now so I can get the proper measurements needed to order the MT. Unfortunately you hit the nail on the head when I came to bike riding though. As you were sending out your e-mail I was in the middle of this year's 24 hour Utah 1088 endurance motorcycle ride. Placed 6th this year (a little disappointing for me). I had so much fun this year, it was worth the time it took away from the plane. I rode 1418 miles in 23.5 hours. After I get the feeling back into my right hand I will be able to start working on the plane again. Scott Schmidt Cell: 801-319-3094 sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox Subject: RV10-List: Gaunlet to Scott Jim Ayers has posted repeatedly about (4X) forward commitments on the MT prop option. His hand has been out for money but no product to challenge Hartzell fore with. Vapor ware (for props), I know better with MT. Gerd must have all of his dealers on a really short leash. The high ground is getting even steeper by each day with the inaction. Orders are being placed. Now, 95% of all the RV-10s on the radar screen are going with Hartzell. This is a travesty. I fly an MT and it is a quantum jump over the Whirlwind. I Can't believe no MT is available to take on this opportunity. MORE THAN 400 opportunities lost (maybe 500 by September). I just have to believe it can outperform a metal two blade on resonance alone. When it came to the rubber meeting the road, there has been no traction on a demonstration of the merits of an MT prop over Hartzell on ANY RV-10 powered by either a carbureted (Doug) or fuel injected Lycoming 540 CID over the heavier Hartzell (regardless of airfoil design). Scott the baton is in now in your court. PLEASE. Many of us are now waiting with anticipation for your first flight and the day when you can take on all comers with Hartzell metal just to blow the BS from the questions and produce results on the lighter and sexier prop option. Don't tell us its still November 2005 for the first flight. Jim is in hiding. We know VAN is tied to Hartzell, Jim remains safely silent in his cave. Do all of you guys really believe he doesn't read these posts. Don't tell us you have another bike ride taking priority over this important build issue. Lets kick the dog and see the bite or at least hear a muffled bark. Renae would want nothing less. John - KUAO ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Headliner...it ain't that bad
Surprise for me, the Headliner thing wasn't a big, nasty deal afterall. Randy had gone to McDonald Inc. to get his headliner. "Perfect Fit" http://www.perfectfit.com/products/shopexd.asp?id=920 Lots of great colors. I wanted to get mine ordered a.s.a.p. but was worried that it would be hard to find a sample book. Because looking at that web page doesn't really give you a great way to match colors. Today I called our local auto-interior refinisher/upholsterer called "Auto Top Shop", and they said they do sell headliner material. To top it off, it was even cheaper than the cost that Randy had listed in his approximation. I think they told me $12-12.50 / linear yard. Some colors come in 60" wide, some only in 54" wide. As it turns out, this stuff is sold under many names. The stuff that I viewed a sample card from (the samples looked EXACTLY like perfectfit.com's web page) are shown here: http://autoheadliner.us/Headliner%20Colors.htm It was the exact same stuff, just under the "SunBrite" name, from the "Glen Raven" mill. Funny thing was, the color I chose was SB-1853 Smoke, and if you look at the PefectFit.com page, they also call PH-1000 1853 Smoke. So anyway, I encourage you to use your yellow pages for auto refinishers, muscle-car restoration, and auto upholsterers and I'm guessing you'll easily find a local source for very similar stuff. After Anh's note about 6 yards being way too much I ordered 5.5 yards. At that low of a cost, I didn't care if I bought an extra yard. Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170 Current project: Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Aux fuel tanks?
Date: Jun 28, 2005
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Having the weight at the end of the spar is typically a benefit to the load distribution in flight. It can be a detriment to the landing loads though. Case in point, my Navion tip tanks allow me to increase my gross weight BUT only by the amount of fuel carried in the tip tanks. We are also cautioned to land gently if the tips are filled. It was likely a no-analysis item back when the STC was approved. Bending loads are one thing but it will also change the handling and fore-aft sloshing will affect CG and may impart torsional loads to the wing. Look at Van's write-up on the wing design and load testing before you think about modifying it. Regards, Greg Young ________________________________ Having owned and flown a Cessna 310 for the last three years and 500 hours I'm not concerned about stability issues. C310 main tanks are the tip tanks, 50 gallons per side, the aux tanks are in the wings only 15 gallons per side. This is a very stable aircraft. My question would be about adding the loading to the end of the spar? Steve 40212 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Byron Gillespie" <bgill1(at)charter.net>
Subject: Firewall Insualtion?
Date: Jun 28, 2005
What are any of you doing relative to firewall insulation? I have searched the archives and have found very little info. I am putting together an order to Aircraft Spruce and noticed that they have several different types. Thought that I would add it on to the floor insulation order. Just ordered my fuel pumps, etc from Vans yesterday. Just looking to those who have (and are) forged ahead for the usual guidance. Thanks, Byron More fuselage decisions - # 40253 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2005
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: De-burr help ..... Please!
OK, I''ve read Van's Manual about how hard 2024 Al is and how the slightest scratch and turn into a crack, and how EVERYTHING needs to be deburred, Ok I get the picture, BUT !!! what bout the spaces between the flanges on ribs, bulkheads etc. you know the ones, the ones that only have about 1/8 in between them, No way to get a scotchbright wheel in there, I've tried a number of dremel bits, but not found none that leaves a smooth edge. i'vve tried a variety of fingernail files as well. So for some of you repeat offenders, and otherwise experienced and skilled workers of aluminum magic, just how important is it that these 'flange gaps' get deburred? I can get the Scotchbrite wheel/s to do both edges of the flanges themselves, but these 'gaps' are driving me crazy. I'm starting my HS and looking at a number of them and thinking there's got be be a better way. (Or perhaps no way?) The thoughts of dong the wings nexy bring tears to my eyes. Deems Davis #406 HS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass
Date: Jun 28, 2005
sorry, www.airtexinteriors.com for carpeting. Anh ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy DeBauw To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 11:06 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass Looking good Anh. Randy From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 9:27 PM To: RV10 Subject: Re: RV10-List: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass OK, some pictures of my headliner partially completed. Also some pictures of the carpeting. It appears black but is dark blue. I bought the carpet material from www.airtex.com . $19/yd. You can send in $3.00 for sample chips. Anh ----- Original Message ----- From: GenGrumpy(at)aol.com To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 10:29 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Headliner trim, and filling fiberglass Where's the picture of the headliner???? Looks like a good party, though..... In a message dated 6/27/2005 9:24:56 PM Central Standard Time, wvu(at)ameritel.net writes: Tim, yes I did mine side-to-side. One other nice minor thing about running the liner sideways is that the grain of the fabric goes fore/aft, which is more pleasing to my eyes. Of course no one can really see that except you yourself. I bought 6 yds from the same place that Randy suggested - way too much. I think 4yds would do. Better check me and measure for yourself though. They come in either 54" or 60" wide. Either would fit from the baggage bulkhead to the seam line that you're talking about. Attached is a pic of some of us at SNF. Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2005
From: James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net>
Subject: Re: De-burr help ..... Please!
Been there, Done that.... I went to the hardware store and got a roll of "Plumbers Abrasive Roll". It's a 1" wide roll of, well, basically sandpaper, except its on a cloth backing so it doesn't rip easy. Take the parts and a piece of that roll and "floss away" :) The other thing I did is get a 1/8" round chainsaw file; It works well for the rounded parts between the flanges where they meet the web. Other than that, I've also used a deburring bit in the Dremel (it's only 1/8" diameter.. good for tight spots.) Enjoy! Those are alot of ribs! -Jim 40384, just finished H.S. Deems Davis wrote: > > OK, I''ve read Van's Manual about how hard 2024 Al is and how the > slightest scratch and turn into a crack, and how EVERYTHING needs to > be deburred, Ok I get the picture, BUT !!! what bout the spaces > between the flanges on ribs, bulkheads etc. you know the ones, the > ones that only have about 1/8 in between them, No way to get a > scotchbright wheel in there, I've tried a number of dremel bits, but > not found none that leaves a smooth edge. i'vve tried a variety of > fingernail files as well. So for some of you repeat offenders, and > otherwise experienced and skilled workers of aluminum magic, just how > important is it that these 'flange gaps' get deburred? I can get the > Scotchbrite wheel/s to do both edges of the flanges themselves, but > these 'gaps' are driving me crazy. I'm starting my HS and looking at > a number of them and thinking there's got be be a better way. (Or > perhaps no way?) The thoughts of dong the wings nexy bring tears to my > eyes. > > Deems Davis #406 > > HS > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: De-burr help ..... Please!
Date: Jun 28, 2005
Ahhhhh. I had the same question just a few flanges ago. Here's what my tech advisor demonstrated. You go get a set of very small files at HD or from Avery, et. al. In the set will be a round, a half round, and a flat file, among others. The flat file does go in between almost all those little spaces and I've found that 5 to 6 strokes takes care of any shear marks. Then I turn to the emery board to smooth it out (or to 220 sandpaper, which is now what I'm using). About 20 strokes with the sandpaper and it's smooth. The round and half round files are used to get to the holes, but that's a little tricky. I'm not sure if I'm doing more damage than not, so I'm a little worried about doing much with those. If you are only slightly aggressive, you can end up having a deformed hole. I've taken to vigorously sanding these and not using files. I believe some let them go without deburring. BUT IT IS TEDIOUS AS ALL HECK AND SLOWS ONE DOWN, and I too would like to hear about more efficient means of doing such. John Jessen (trying to understand how production AL plans are deburred) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Subject: Re: RV10-List: De-burr help ..... Please! OK, I''ve read Van's Manual about how hard 2024 Al is and how the slightest scratch and turn into a crack, and how EVERYTHING needs to be deburred, Ok I get the picture, BUT !!! what bout the spaces between the flanges on ribs, bulkheads etc. you know the ones, the ones that only have about 1/8 in between them, No way to get a scotchbright wheel in there, I've tried a number of dremel bits, but not found none that leaves a smooth edge. i'vve tried a variety of fingernail files as well. So for some of you repeat offenders, and otherwise experienced and skilled workers of aluminum magic, just how important is it that these 'flange gaps' get deburred? I can get the Scotchbrite wheel/s to do both edges of the flanges themselves, but these 'gaps' are driving me crazy. I'm starting my HS and looking at a number of them and thinking there's got be be a better way. (Or perhaps no way?) The thoughts of dong the wings nexy bring tears to my eyes. Deems Davis #406 HS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: De-burr help ..... Please!
Date: Jun 28, 2005
Deburring bit? In the Dremel? Is this a Dremel deburring bit? I've been looking for such. Can you be more specific. Thanks, John Jessen -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Hein Subject: Re: RV10-List: De-burr help ..... Please! Been there, Done that.... I went to the hardware store and got a roll of "Plumbers Abrasive Roll". It's a 1" wide roll of, well, basically sandpaper, except its on a cloth backing so it doesn't rip easy. Take the parts and a piece of that roll and "floss away" :) The other thing I did is get a 1/8" round chainsaw file; It works well for the rounded parts between the flanges where they meet the web. Other than that, I've also used a deburring bit in the Dremel (it's only 1/8" diameter.. good for tight spots.) Enjoy! Those are alot of ribs! -Jim 40384, just finished H.S. Deems Davis wrote: > > OK, I''ve read Van's Manual about how hard 2024 Al is and how the > slightest scratch and turn into a crack, and how EVERYTHING needs to > be deburred, Ok I get the picture, BUT !!! what bout the spaces > between the flanges on ribs, bulkheads etc. you know the ones, the > ones that only have about 1/8 in between them, No way to get a > scotchbright wheel in there, I've tried a number of dremel bits, but > not found none that leaves a smooth edge. i'vve tried a variety of > fingernail files as well. So for some of you repeat offenders, and > otherwise experienced and skilled workers of aluminum magic, just how > important is it that these 'flange gaps' get deburred? I can get the > Scotchbrite wheel/s to do both edges of the flanges themselves, but > these 'gaps' are driving me crazy. I'm starting my HS and looking at > a number of them and thinking there's got be be a better way. (Or > perhaps no way?) The thoughts of dong the wings nexy bring tears to my > eyes. > > Deems Davis #406 > > HS > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2005
From: Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: De-burr help ..... Please!
<42C1DB12.3060906(at)arrl.net> I don't do anything more than run the groove along the edge of the 3M wheel on the bench grinder. fast, efficient, not too anal. :) -Sean #40303 flaps James Hein wrote: > > Been there, Done that.... > > I went to the hardware store and got a roll of "Plumbers Abrasive > Roll". It's a 1" wide roll of, well, basically sandpaper, except its > on a cloth backing so it doesn't rip easy. Take the parts and a piece > of that roll and "floss away" :) > The other thing I did is get a 1/8" round chainsaw file; It works > well for the rounded parts between the flanges where they meet the web. > Other than that, I've also used a deburring bit in the Dremel (it's > only 1/8" diameter.. good for tight spots.) > > Enjoy! Those are alot of ribs! > > -Jim 40384, just finished H.S. > > > Deems Davis wrote: > >> >> OK, I''ve read Van's Manual about how hard 2024 Al is and how the >> slightest scratch and turn into a crack, and how EVERYTHING needs to >> be deburred, Ok I get the picture, BUT !!! what bout the spaces >> between the flanges on ribs, bulkheads etc. you know the ones, the >> ones that only have about 1/8 in between them, No way to get a >> scotchbright wheel in there, I've tried a number of dremel bits, but >> not found none that leaves a smooth edge. i'vve tried a variety of >> fingernail files as well. So for some of you repeat offenders, and >> otherwise experienced and skilled workers of aluminum magic, just how >> important is it that these 'flange gaps' get deburred? I can get the >> Scotchbrite wheel/s to do both edges of the flanges themselves, but >> these 'gaps' are driving me crazy. I'm starting my HS and looking at >> a number of them and thinking there's got be be a better way. (Or >> perhaps no way?) The thoughts of dong the wings nexy bring tears to >> my eyes. >> >> Deems Davis #406 >> >> HS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2005
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: De-burr help ..... Please!
I agree, John there's no way, the aircraft mfg's could aford to do this debur thing the way we're trying to do it. Deems John Jessen wrote: > >Ahhhhh. > >I had the same question just a few flanges ago. Here's what my tech advisor >demonstrated. You go get a set of very small files at HD or from Avery, et. >al. In the set will be a round, a half round, and a flat file, among >others. The flat file does go in between almost all those little spaces and >I've found that 5 to 6 strokes takes care of any shear marks. Then I turn >to the emery board to smooth it out (or to 220 sandpaper, which is now what >I'm using). About 20 strokes with the sandpaper and it's smooth. The round >and half round files are used to get to the holes, but that's a little >tricky. I'm not sure if I'm doing more damage than not, so I'm a little >worried about doing much with those. If you are only slightly aggressive, >you can end up having a deformed hole. I've taken to vigorously sanding >these and not using files. I believe some let them go without deburring. > >BUT IT IS TEDIOUS AS ALL HECK AND SLOWS ONE DOWN, and I too would like to >hear about more efficient means of doing such. > >John Jessen > (trying to understand how production AL plans are deburred) > >-----Original Message-----


June 15, 2005 - June 28, 2005

RV10-Archive.digest.vol-al