RV10-Archive.digest.vol-am
June 28, 2005 - July 14, 2005
>From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
>Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 3:53 PM
>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: De-burr help ..... Please!
>
>
>OK, I''ve read Van's Manual about how hard 2024 Al is and how the slightest
>scratch and turn into a crack, and how EVERYTHING needs to be deburred, Ok I
>get the picture, BUT !!! what bout the spaces between the flanges on ribs,
>bulkheads etc. you know the ones, the ones that only have about 1/8 in
>between them, No way to get a scotchbright wheel in there, I've tried a
>number of dremel bits, but not found none that leaves a smooth edge. i'vve
>tried a variety of fingernail files as well.
>So for some of you repeat offenders, and otherwise experienced and skilled
>workers of aluminum magic, just how important is it that these 'flange gaps'
>get deburred? I can get the Scotchbrite wheel/s to do both edges of the
>flanges themselves, but these 'gaps' are driving me crazy.
>I'm starting my HS and looking at a number of them and thinking there's got
>be be a better way. (Or perhaps no way?) The thoughts of dong the wings nexy
>bring tears to my eyes.
>
>Deems Davis #406
>
>HS
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: De-burr help ..... Please! |
>OK, I''ve read Van's Manual about how hard 2024 Al is and how the slightest
>scratch and turn into a crack, and how EVERYTHING needs to be deburred, Ok
>I get the picture, BUT !!! what bout the spaces between the flanges on
>ribs, bulkheads etc. you know the ones, the ones that only have about 1/8
>in between them, No way to get a scotchbright wheel in there, I've tried a
>number of dremel bits, but not found none that leaves a smooth edge. i'vve
>tried a variety of fingernail files as well. So for some of you repeat
>offenders, and otherwise experienced and skilled workers of aluminum magic,
>just how important is it that these 'flange gaps' get deburred? I can get
>the Scotchbrite wheel/s to do both edges of the flanges themselves, but
>these 'gaps' are driving me crazy. I'm starting my HS and looking at a
>number of them and thinking there's got be be a better way. (Or perhaps no
>way?) The thoughts of dong the wings nexy bring tears to my eyes.
>
>Deems Davis #406
>
>HS
Easy now, don't lose your mind over it. (Too late? ;)
For the nooks and crannies I use jewelers files...the rat tail ones. Harbor
freight sells them in sets for dirt cheap. Just draw the file through the
notch and knock off the burr caused from the shearing process. Chain saw
sharpening files also work very well and are larger and easier to grasp.
To be quite honest, I don't do much in these flange notch recesses. My edge
and hole deburring on my -8 was far from perfect and the airplane has not a
single crack anywhere in the airframe after five years of flying fun. I'm
not too concerned with stress crack propagation in the internal ribs and
formers as they are locked down and not subject to any significant amount of
movement or flexion. Unsupported skin edges (trailing edge of wing skins,
HS, VS skins, etc) can get some buzzing from engine vibrations and airflow.
I try to buff these down to a smooth finish.
To each his own, and you have to be comfortable with your degree of effort
applied to this process. Just remember you're not building a Swiss watch,
and do you think the airframe builders in WWII spent any significant amount
of time deburring every single piece of the thousands of airframes they
built? I think not! Are many of these airframes still airworthy to this
very day? You betcha.
Oh and don't sweat the scratches and scuffs. You'll hangar rash the parts
through the years of handling and movements during construction and you'll
just drive yourself bonkers trying to keep everything pristine. Primer and
paint takes care of all but the worst deep gouges or scratches.
Disclaimer: These are my opinions only. Van's mantra applies nicely here:
"Just build the plane."
Hang in there.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | De-burr help ..... Please! |
Sears sells small deburring bits for motor tools (aka Dremel) that appear to be
very similar in material to scotchbrite. They are pointed shape and green in
color. I used about 5 of them since the beginning and they work perfectly in those
exact same areas. I just run them at around half speed, push the point into
the hole on both sides, works great for all small areas that need a little
polishing. They run about $4 bucks a peice but they are invaluable for doing the
cracks and crevices, don't run them at a high RPM, they wear out too fast.
Rick S.
40185
Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net> |
| Subject: | Re: De-burr help ..... Please! |
I don't remember exactly where I got them, but they have lasted forever!
I seem to think I got them at a local hobby shop.
Might want to check out http://www.towerhobbies.com
As everyone has said: Just take the burrs off so that you don't cut
yourself and build it. I think someone said that Vans says that 20% of
people don't even deburr at all, and that their parts ship in better
condition than most manufacturers assemble with.
-Jim
John Jessen wrote:
>
>Deburring bit? In the Dremel? Is this a Dremel deburring bit? I've been
>looking for such. Can you be more specific.
>
>Thanks,
>
>John Jessen
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Hein
>Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 4:20 PM
>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: De-burr help ..... Please!
>
>
>Been there, Done that....
>
> I went to the hardware store and got a roll of "Plumbers Abrasive Roll".
>It's a 1" wide roll of, well, basically sandpaper, except its on a cloth
>backing so it doesn't rip easy. Take the parts and a piece of that roll and
>"floss away" :)
> The other thing I did is get a 1/8" round chainsaw file; It works well
>for the rounded parts between the flanges where they meet the web.
> Other than that, I've also used a deburring bit in the Dremel (it's only
>1/8" diameter.. good for tight spots.)
>
>Enjoy! Those are alot of ribs!
>
>-Jim 40384, just finished H.S.
>
>
>Deems Davis wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>OK, I''ve read Van's Manual about how hard 2024 Al is and how the
>>slightest scratch and turn into a crack, and how EVERYTHING needs to
>>be deburred, Ok I get the picture, BUT !!! what bout the spaces
>>between the flanges on ribs, bulkheads etc. you know the ones, the
>>ones that only have about 1/8 in between them, No way to get a
>>scotchbright wheel in there, I've tried a number of dremel bits, but
>>not found none that leaves a smooth edge. i'vve tried a variety of
>>fingernail files as well. So for some of you repeat offenders, and
>>otherwise experienced and skilled workers of aluminum magic, just how
>>important is it that these 'flange gaps' get deburred? I can get the
>>Scotchbrite wheel/s to do both edges of the flanges themselves, but
>>these 'gaps' are driving me crazy. I'm starting my HS and looking at
>>a number of them and thinking there's got be be a better way. (Or
>>perhaps no way?) The thoughts of dong the wings nexy bring tears to my
>>eyes.
>>
>>Deems Davis #406
>>
>>HS
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GenGrumpy(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aux fuel tanks? |
Guys, I'm a newcomer to building the -10, but have years of flight test
experience in high performance aircraft.
I would not - repeat not - add anything to the outboard section of the wing
that Van has not done structural analysis on to include flight tests.
I specifically recall a problem with flight test of the F-16 and outboard
stores that nearly took the outboard section of the wing off.
The structures guys said it would never happen (the torsional loads) until we
showed them on videotape.
They then said "if you let that continue, it would probably rip the wing
off......"
Just a thought from a guy who requires both the design engineer and flight
test folks to say "it's ok"......
grumpy
In a message dated 6/28/2005 4:09:11 PM Central Standard Time,
gyoung@cs-sol.com writes:
Having the weight at the end of the spar is typically a benefit to the load
distribution in flight. It can be a detriment to the landing loads though. Case
in point, my Navion tip tanks allow me to increase my gross weight BUT only
by the amount of fuel carried in the tip tanks. We are also cautioned to land
gently if the tips are filled. It was likely a no-analysis item back when the
STC was approved. Bending loads are one thing but it will also change the
handling and fore-aft sloshing will affect CG and may impart torsional loads to
the
wing. Look at Van's write-up on the wing design and load testing before you
think about modifying it.
Regards,
Greg Young
________________________________
Having owned and flown a Cessna 310 for the last three
years and 500 hours I'm not concerned about stability
issues. C310 main tanks are the tip tanks, 50 gallons
per side, the aux tanks are in the wings only 15
gallons per side. This is a very stable aircraft. My
question would be about adding the loading to the end
of the spar?
Steve 40212 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Gauntlet to Scott |
Add twenty years to your personal skeleton and it will resemble the
condition I am in after such activity in my mid 20's over in the desert
of Central Oregon. With CRS, it won't be long before those memory's are
gone. Thanks for the response on the limp glove (Gauntlet). It was
interesting how Silent Jim resurfaced just long enough to avoid the
appropriate challenge. Showing Hartzell purchasers another alternative
and design consideration should awaken the masses. It has always amused
me that weight is always an attempt in aviation to be held to a minimum
- just the inverse of more usable Brake Mean Horsepower, more runway ,
more fuel and adequate air under the wings.
Why would anyone regularly carry ballast to effect a safe flight. Must
be like those European ships of old that carried Belgian Cobblestones in
there holds on the way to plundering the lumber of the Pacific NW.
W & Balance options, harmonic suppression and just the general
appearance of a well painted MT should move a few fence sitters from the
Tried and True Grey Metal props into the world of a high performance
three blade MT. Looking forward to Gerd's presentation at OSH on
Wednesday, July 27 (just four weeks from tomorrow).
I spent part of this weekend re-reading your posts on your progress.
The fitment on the windscreen is looking good.
John
503-453-6016
________________________________
| From: | owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Gaunlet to Scott
Well John I probably will not fly until November at the earliest. My
panel is 8-10 weeks out from Aerocrafter but things are coming along
nicely. I hope to start with paint sometime in August or September, do
final panel install and finish work in October / November. I actually
thing November is pushing it for me. The finishing work really does
take a lot of time. I don't see why there will be any problems with the
MT though. With 1-3 people I will not need any weight in the back. With
4 and baggage I may build a place in the engine compartment that can be
easily outfitted with 15-20 lbs. of tungsten carbide. Anyway, I am
working on the cowling right now so I can get the proper measurements
needed to order the MT.
Unfortunately you hit the nail on the head when I came to bike riding
though. As you were sending out your e-mail I was in the middle of this
year's 24 hour Utah 1088 endurance motorcycle ride. Placed 6th this
year (a little disappointing for me). I had so much fun this year, it
was worth the time it took away from the plane. I rode 1418 miles in
23.5 hours. After I get the feeling back into my right hand I will be
able to start working on the plane again.
Scott Schmidt
Cell: 801-319-3094
sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com
________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: -10 Static Ports |
Kind of odd that he sells the static ports, but hasn't tested the
installation on his own aircraft. The test is easy, and cheap.
Instructions are at
<http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/phplinks/index.php?&PID=48>. This test is
what showed me that my RV-6 had unacceptable airspeed (and altitude)
errors as a result of using the static source on the certified heated
pitot-static tube. I went to the standard Van's pop rivet approach and
dropped my errors by two thirds or so.
Tim
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 740 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> Randy, Jesse, and anyone else that is flying,
>
> What did you use for your static ports? I am looking at using the
> safair1 kit but have heard that flush, or near flush, mount static ports
> introduce a large error in the 1 and 2 seat RV's. I asked Tony at
> SafeAir1 this question and got a bit of the run around (posted below for
> reference). The quality of his stuff looks to be quite good and I can
> live with a couple knot discrepancy, but I don't want to introduce a
> couple hundred foot error in my altimeter.
>
> Michael Sausen
> -10 #352
> Tailcone
>
>
>
> Michael,
>
> Thank you for your interest in SafeAir1 products.
>
> Like the great "primer wars", this subject comes up about every 6 months.
>
> Our static ports protrude beyond the skin by about .015" (skin thickness
> = .032"). We have sold hundreds static ports and NEVER had a single
> complaint from customer or a returned kit. I used flush ports on my
> RV-6 and have been flying since the spring of 2000 without an accident.
> Are my readings improper? I'm not sure how I'd know? All of my
> performance parameters are where Van predicted they should be. Perhaps
> my system is off 1 knot, 3 knots, or .005 knots? Or maybe it's the
> chase airplane with the pop rivets that's off by 2.7 knots? Are all pop
> rivets squeezed to the exact same thickness before the mandrel shears?
> Has Van's changed pop rivet suppliers? How thick is the boundary layer
> along the RV-X side skins where the ports are mounted? Are the boundary
> layers always the same? What if the aircraft with flush ports had a
> leaky static system? I'm not trying to beat you up for asking the
> question. I can only point to my success, and the success of our
> customers and say our ports seem to work in a satisfactory manner.
> Having said that, We've sold a lot of ports to RV-10 builders, but I
> don't know if any of them have flown yet.
>
> I am not aware of any static ports, including Van's /pop rivet of the
> day/, that have been designed and tested for use in experimental
> aircraft static systems. If you're not comfortable with our static
> ports, I suggest you stick with pop rivets per Van's plans.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tony Munday
> SafeAir1
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* Michael Sausen
> *Sent:* Monday, June 27, 2005 9:42 PM
> *To:* CustomerCare(at)SafeAir1.com
> *Subject:* RV-10 pitot-static kit
>
> I'm interested in your pitot-static kit for the -10 I am building
> and was wondering if your machined static ports protrude above the
> skin similar to the Van's pop rivet style. The reason I ask is the
> flush mounts have shown to cause an improper reading on other RV models.
>
> Thanks,
> Michael Sausen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net> |
Ok, I've got mixed emotions from my work session this evening. I riveted
the trailing edge of my rudder, tried to follow al the steps as best I
could, but I'm sure how I feel about the outcome. Translate that to: It's
flyable, but it's a long way from what I was working toward.
For those of you heading that direction, at least two things: make sure you
barely smear the thinnest coating of proseal possible along the wedge, and
don't use the bulky popsicle stick. Use a brush or gloved finger. I
learned a couple of nights ago on the board here (too late) that the proseal
is definitely non-structural. I made sure to get the goop all the way down
the length of the edge. I've got a few spots that, although not horrible, I
definitely had to use more rivet gun attention to get that part to lay down
flatter, so I had to be even more cautious about causing a hook.
The other thing is closely related. I made lap joints, but I bent the skins
(in retrospect) more than the few degrees called for in the instructions. I
thought I was giving myself extra goof-up room to squeeze the rivets without
upturning the edges, but in reality all I did was allow more proseal to stay
accumulated under the edges that caused the major of the two problems.
While I was riveting this evening, I was working against the proseal under
the lapped edge, which made it that much harder to get the nice, straight,
flat edge.
In short, 1) don't try to use all the proseal (I didn't do that either, but
I still used too much) and only smear that barest adequate quantity, and 2)
make the bends on your lap joints either barely or not at all perceptible;
it'll still work out.
Rob Wright
40392
On to rolling rudder leading edges tomorrow..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | -10 Static Ports |
Remind me not to buy from SafeAir1. what kind of business-generating reply
is that?
Rob Wright
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: -10 Static Ports
Randy, Jesse, and anyone else that is flying,
What did you use for your static ports? I am looking at using the safair1
kit but have heard that flush, or near flush, mount static ports introduce a
large error in the 1 and 2 seat RV's. I asked Tony at SafeAir1 this
question and got a bit of the run around (posted below for reference). The
quality of his stuff looks to be quite good and I can live with a couple
knot discrepancy, but I don't want to introduce a couple hundred foot error
in my altimeter.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352
Tailcone
Michael,
Thank you for your interest in SafeAir1 products.
Like the great "primer wars", this subject comes up about every 6 months.
Our static ports protrude beyond the skin by about .015" (skin thickness .032").
We have sold hundreds static ports and NEVER had a single complaint
from customer or a returned kit. I used flush ports on my RV-6 and have
been flying since the spring of 2000 without an accident. Are my readings
improper? I'm not sure how I'd know? All of my performance parameters are
where Van predicted they should be. Perhaps my system is off 1 knot, 3
knots, or .005 knots? Or maybe it's the chase airplane with the pop rivets
that's off by 2.7 knots? Are all pop rivets squeezed to the exact same
thickness before the mandrel shears? Has Van's changed pop rivet suppliers?
How thick is the boundary layer along the RV-X side skins where the ports
are mounted? Are the boundary layers always the same? What if the aircraft
with flush ports had a leaky static system? I'm not trying to beat you up
for asking the question. I can only point to my success, and the success of
our customers and say our ports seem to work in a satisfactory manner.
Having said that, We've sold a lot of ports to RV-10 builders, but I don't
know if any of them have flown yet.
I am not aware of any static ports, including Van's pop rivet of the day,
that have been designed and tested for use in experimental aircraft static
systems. If you're not comfortable with our static ports, I suggest you
stick with pop rivets per Van's plans.
Regards,
Tony Munday
SafeAir1
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Sausen
Subject: RV-10 pitot-static kit
I'm interested in your pitot-static kit for the -10 I am building and was
wondering if your machined static ports protrude above the skin similar to
the Van's pop rivet style. The reason I ask is the flush mounts have shown
to cause an improper reading on other RV models.
Thanks,
Michael Sausen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | QB Fuse Gear Mount Bolts |
I was putting the main gear mounts in for the final drilling and was just
about to rig a long wrench as several others have indicated. Just for kicks
I took out the wood spacer at the end of the spar carry through and it turns
out you can reach in there from the side and get to all the bolts you need
to. Hopefully this will help those who haven't spent hours on this aspect
yet.
Marcus
40286
Wings & Finishing kit ship next week
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Lewis <rv10(at)tpg.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: -10 Static Ports. Just my opinion |
<001301c57c5a$f5e20b60$e3926947@starnfamily>
G'day all,
JOHN STARN wrote:
> I almost sure that the Safeair1 static vents are NOT flush
All respect to you John, but as someone with the Safeair1 ports firmly
fixed to my side skins, they ARE flush. The kit is fantastic quality
and I have absolutely no regrets about going with Safeair1. Will let
you know in 3-4 years how accurate they are, but in all my research I
have only found 3-4 comments about problems, and there's gotta be more
flush ports flying than that.
Pic attached (Actually looks a little recessed in the pic, but that is
just because of the angle it is taken from).
Seeya,
Scott Lewis
RV-10 40172 VH-DRS
Adelaide, South Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net> |
| Subject: | Tube Flaring technique |
What's the trick to good flares? I did fine for half of the tubes and then managed
to crack every one. I tried to carefully cut with a tube cutter, a little
at a time, make sure the ends are squared, deburred. I have one of those sliding
block flaring tools (37deg). One fella in the archive mentioned leaving
5/16" of the tube protruding through the block and turn 7 half turns.
Anh
#141
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Tank Sealant Quantity? |
What quantity of tank sealant was required to seal the tanks? Was the
quart kit enough to complete both tanks?
Thanks...
-Sean #40303
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gauntlet to Scott |
<9F819487C44F0B4DBDB0CC0450824CEB019B5316@ehost005-2.exch005intermedia.net>
Well I guess I'll just have to permanently attach the 16 oz water bottle I
carry with me in the cockpit. As you said, size does not matter. Does the
permanently attachment rule also apply to tool bags, golf bags, luggage etc.
etc. that is carried & used in the W&B calculations.
But the whole idea is NOT to carry bricks, lead shot etc. ALL the time,
moving them about as required. I'm sure that the same netting that holds
down bricks, lead, extra oil etc would hold down a water bottle. (Like the
ones off-roaders use) The whole idea was to carry an empty container until
needed, fill it and emptied when no longer required.
The MT four blade prop we have is not the same one recommended for the
RV-10. HRII N561FS is powered by Lyc. IO-540 250 HP. We didn't do a full set
of engineering studies on the props, (nor are we likely to do so just for
your edification) we just like to fly in the Rocket. John Harmon might have
some data as our prop is the same one he tried on his Reno HRIII racer. Not
"fast" enough to race behind but great for our use.
This debate sounds a lot like the old Bonanza aft tank that was required to
be emptied first so as to not move the envelope beyond the rear limits. BUT
I agree with your comment that it would be "nice" if we could just kick the
tires, light the fire & zoom away without W&B considerations in the RV-10
and most every other airplane. I know the W&B numbers on N561FS and will
care again when I get closer to building the -10 kit. KABONG Do Not
Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Gauntlet to Scott
>
> As a certificated LTA pilot I know a lot about both hot air and the use of
> water ballast with airships. The retaining containers must be permanently
> fixed into the aircraft and listed in the empty weight calculation. With
> Amphibs the floats often require some creative, permanent lead or other
> fixed (and declared) weights. Often found as little total weight as
> possible and as far aft as practical (like the tie down eyelet). However,
> I seem to remember the need that ballast be secured for all possible
> turbulence that can be encountered in flight. I don't think a collapsible
> plastic water container whether how small or large would pass an official
> ramp test. Can't imagine VAN supporting that either. But then, that was
> the whole issue of the post. Why carry ballast again.... KABONG?
>
> Can't respond to the MT query till Jim lets someone test the darn thing
> and establish the new arm and moment. Scott has a valid Hall Pass till
> this fall. Wouldn't it be novel if a 10 could fly lighter without the use
> of 70 pounds of hot water bottles shoved into all the little storage
> places. I can just see the NTSB reconstructing the accident report on W&B
> after the fact. "Oh well, I popped my water, had to execute an immediate
> landing till I could take on more fuel.... The pains got too close
> together, I guess I did not make it". ;-).
>
> Okay, John - three on the same plane, lets here some speeds, MP and rpm
> reports. I know the 3 blade is better harmonically and the additional
> drag with the fourth is oh well. I can show you a Garrett TPE on a LIV
> with Five, but that's another matter. Let's do hear.
>
> This water won't float my boat.
>
> $00.019
> Just a random comment on W & B. Buy a 5 gallon collapsible plastic water
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: -10 Static Ports. Just my opinion |
<001301c57c5a$f5e20b60$e3926947@starnfamily> <42C21E48.2000603(at)tpg.com.au>
Sorry, I did say "almost sure", but I had not seen the part up close nor of
the installation, only the photo's of the kit. It would appear that some
more material needs to be ground off the face so the end sticks thru
further. SAFEAIR are you lurking out there ?.
We used the ACS part# 15160, page #348 but changed out the attaching fitting
to a Nylo-seal fitting# 269-N 1/4 tube X 1/8 pipe thread 90 degree elbow
page# 115. As noted these ACS units do protrude thru the skin (with paint)
about the same as the head of a "pop" rivet. You might want to drill out
those three (times 2) rivets & grind or have the depth of the cut increased.
It's got to be easier now than in a few years and after paint.
Again I'm sorry for my assumption. So as not make another error, Scott you
did countersink the face of the port ? KABONG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Lewis" <rv10(at)tpg.com.au>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: -10 Static Ports. Just my opinion
> G'day all,
>
> JOHN STARN wrote:
>> I almost sure that the Safeair1 static vents are NOT flush
>
> All respect to you John, but as someone with the Safeair1 ports firmly
> fixed to my side skins, they ARE flush. The kit is fantastic quality
> and I have absolutely no regrets about going with Safeair1. Will let
> you know in 3-4 years how accurate they are, but in all my research I
> have only found 3-4 comments about problems, and there's gotta be more
> flush ports flying than that.
>
> Pic attached (Actually looks a little recessed in the pic, but that is
> just because of the angle it is taken from).
>
> Seeya,
> Scott Lewis
> RV-10 40172 VH-DRS
> Adelaide, South Australia
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Instrument Panel Cutouts |
Does anyone have any experience with the folks at Experimental Air with
generating a CAD picture of the panel and then cutting it with the water
jet. Seems like a pretty neat deal and reasonably priced assuming they do
good work.
Thanks,
Marcus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Specketer" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Tube Flaring technique |
One of the tricks is to have fresh tubing. My Glasair kit had tubing
that would not flair. I had to get replacement tubing. Cut a sample or
two and bring them to a friend and have him try it. That will tell you
if it is technique or tubing.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu
Subject: RV10-List: Tube Flaring technique
What's the trick to good flares? I did fine for half of the tubes and
then managed to crack every one. I tried to carefully cut with a tube
cutter, a little at a time, make sure the ends are squared, deburred. I
have one of those sliding block flaring tools (37deg). One fella in the
archive mentioned leaving 5/16" of the tube protruding through the block
and turn 7 half turns.
Anh
#141
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Specketer" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Gauntlet to Scott |
I have gone a diferent route. I purchaced a 2 blade Aero Composites
propeller aerocomposites.com It is way lighter than the Hartzel and
some lighter than the MT because it is only 2 blade. I am hoping that
it will solvew the CG issue without balast.
Gary
Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN STARN
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Gauntlet to Scott
Well I guess I'll just have to permanently attach the 16 oz water
bottle I
carry with me in the cockpit. As you said, size does not matter. Does
the
permanently attachment rule also apply to tool bags, golf bags, luggage
etc.
etc. that is carried & used in the W&B calculations.
But the whole idea is NOT to carry bricks, lead shot etc. ALL the time,
moving them about as required. I'm sure that the same netting that holds
down bricks, lead, extra oil etc would hold down a water bottle. (Like
the
ones off-roaders use) The whole idea was to carry an empty container
until
needed, fill it and emptied when no longer required.
The MT four blade prop we have is not the same one recommended for the
RV-10. HRII N561FS is powered by Lyc. IO-540 250 HP. We didn't do a full
set
of engineering studies on the props, (nor are we likely to do so just
for
your edification) we just like to fly in the Rocket. John Harmon might
have
some data as our prop is the same one he tried on his Reno HRIII racer.
Not
"fast" enough to race behind but great for our use.
This debate sounds a lot like the old Bonanza aft tank that was required
to
be emptied first so as to not move the envelope beyond the rear limits.
BUT
I agree with your comment that it would be "nice" if we could just kick
the
tires, light the fire & zoom away without W&B considerations in the
RV-10
and most every other airplane. I know the W&B numbers on N561FS and will
care again when I get closer to building the -10 kit. KABONG Do Not
Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Gauntlet to Scott
> -->
>
> As a certificated LTA pilot I know a lot about both hot air and the
> use of
> water ballast with airships. The retaining containers must be
permanently
> fixed into the aircraft and listed in the empty weight calculation.
With
> Amphibs the floats often require some creative, permanent lead or
other
> fixed (and declared) weights. Often found as little total weight as
> possible and as far aft as practical (like the tie down eyelet).
However,
> I seem to remember the need that ballast be secured for all possible
> turbulence that can be encountered in flight. I don't think a
collapsible
> plastic water container whether how small or large would pass an
official
> ramp test. Can't imagine VAN supporting that either. But then, that
was
> the whole issue of the post. Why carry ballast again.... KABONG?
>
> Can't respond to the MT query till Jim lets someone test the darn
> thing
> and establish the new arm and moment. Scott has a valid Hall Pass
till
> this fall. Wouldn't it be novel if a 10 could fly lighter without the
use
> of 70 pounds of hot water bottles shoved into all the little storage
> places. I can just see the NTSB reconstructing the accident report on
W&B
> after the fact. "Oh well, I popped my water, had to execute an
immediate
> landing till I could take on more fuel.... The pains got too close
> together, I guess I did not make it". ;-).
>
> Okay, John - three on the same plane, lets here some speeds, MP and
> rpm
> reports. I know the 3 blade is better harmonically and the additional
> drag with the fourth is oh well. I can show you a Garrett TPE on a
LIV
> with Five, but that's another matter. Let's do hear.
>
> This water won't float my boat.
>
> $00.019
> Just a random comment on W & B. Buy a 5 gallon collapsible plastic
> water
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank Sealant Quantity? |
<42C222F8.1010800(at)cox.net>
If you're really careful with it, you may get by on one can.
I know I wasn't quite as conservative as I could have been,
and I used a fair share of 2 cans. If a builder was
reasonably careful, 2 cans could do all of the control
surfaces and the tanks, and they could buy the 2 cans
right away. Store them in the freezer for increased
shelf life. To me, I'd rather spend an extra $40 and
not get slowed down. You'll actually use a little on
the firewall, and a couple other places down the road too.
I used some to seal my hot air intake vent gaps.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
Sean Stephens wrote:
>
> What quantity of tank sealant was required to seal the tanks? Was the
> quart kit enough to complete both tanks?
>
> Thanks...
>
> -Sean #40303
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Gauntlet to Scott |
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
Until you get to the other end of the scale and have four adults on board and low
fuel, then your c.g. could be too far aft . . .
I vote that Van's includes their weight and balance information earlier in the
kit process, instead of just in the finish kit. It would be interesting to try
and get W&B for the aircraft shell, not counting engine, electrical, or anything.
Then one could do a mental exercise of adding components and see where
your c.g. ends up.
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary Specketer
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Gauntlet to Scott
I have gone a diferent route. I purchaced a 2 blade Aero Composites
propeller aerocomposites.com It is way lighter than the Hartzel and
some lighter than the MT because it is only 2 blade. I am hoping that
it will solvew the CG issue without balast.
Gary
Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN STARN
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Gauntlet to Scott
Well I guess I'll just have to permanently attach the 16 oz water
bottle I
carry with me in the cockpit. As you said, size does not matter. Does
the
permanently attachment rule also apply to tool bags, golf bags, luggage
etc.
etc. that is carried & used in the W&B calculations.
But the whole idea is NOT to carry bricks, lead shot etc. ALL the time,
moving them about as required. I'm sure that the same netting that holds
down bricks, lead, extra oil etc would hold down a water bottle. (Like
the
ones off-roaders use) The whole idea was to carry an empty container
until
needed, fill it and emptied when no longer required.
The MT four blade prop we have is not the same one recommended for the
RV-10. HRII N561FS is powered by Lyc. IO-540 250 HP. We didn't do a full
set
of engineering studies on the props, (nor are we likely to do so just
for
your edification) we just like to fly in the Rocket. John Harmon might
have
some data as our prop is the same one he tried on his Reno HRIII racer.
Not
"fast" enough to race behind but great for our use.
This debate sounds a lot like the old Bonanza aft tank that was required
to
be emptied first so as to not move the envelope beyond the rear limits.
BUT
I agree with your comment that it would be "nice" if we could just kick
the
tires, light the fire & zoom away without W&B considerations in the
RV-10
and most every other airplane. I know the W&B numbers on N561FS and will
care again when I get closer to building the -10 kit. KABONG Do Not
Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Gauntlet to Scott
> -->
>
> As a certificated LTA pilot I know a lot about both hot air and the
> use of
> water ballast with airships. The retaining containers must be
permanently
> fixed into the aircraft and listed in the empty weight calculation.
With
> Amphibs the floats often require some creative, permanent lead or
other
> fixed (and declared) weights. Often found as little total weight as
> possible and as far aft as practical (like the tie down eyelet).
However,
> I seem to remember the need that ballast be secured for all possible
> turbulence that can be encountered in flight. I don't think a
collapsible
> plastic water container whether how small or large would pass an
official
> ramp test. Can't imagine VAN supporting that either. But then, that
was
> the whole issue of the post. Why carry ballast again.... KABONG?
>
> Can't respond to the MT query till Jim lets someone test the darn
> thing
> and establish the new arm and moment. Scott has a valid Hall Pass
till
> this fall. Wouldn't it be novel if a 10 could fly lighter without the
use
> of 70 pounds of hot water bottles shoved into all the little storage
> places. I can just see the NTSB reconstructing the accident report on
W&B
> after the fact. "Oh well, I popped my water, had to execute an
immediate
> landing till I could take on more fuel.... The pains got too close
> together, I guess I did not make it". ;-).
>
> Okay, John - three on the same plane, lets here some speeds, MP and
> rpm
> reports. I know the 3 blade is better harmonically and the additional
> drag with the fourth is oh well. I can show you a Garrett TPE on a
LIV
> with Five, but that's another matter. Let's do hear.
>
> This water won't float my boat.
>
> $00.019
> Just a random comment on W & B. Buy a 5 gallon collapsible plastic
> water
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LarryRosen(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: -10 Static Ports. Just my opinion |
I have not yet installed my Safe Air vents, but I did a test fit and the port does
stick out past the skin. It sticks out at least as far as paint would. I
will make a measurement when I get back to the shop in a couple of days.
Larry Rosen
#356
-------------- Original message --------------
>
> Sorry, I did say "almost sure", but I had not seen the part up close nor of
> the installation, only the photo's of the kit. It would appear that some
> more material needs to be ground off the face so the end sticks thru
> further. SAFEAIR are you lurking out there ?.
> We used the ACS part# 15160, page #348 but changed out the attaching fitting
> to a Nylo-seal fitting# 269-N 1/4 tube X 1/8 pipe thread 90 degree elbow
> page# 115. As noted these ACS units do protrude thru the skin (with paint)
> about the same as the head of a "pop" rivet. You might want to drill out
> those three (times 2) rivets & grind or have the depth of the cut increased.
> It's got to be easier now than in a few years and after paint.
> Again I'm sorry for my assumption. So as not make another error, Scott you
> did countersink the face of the port ? KABONG
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Lewis"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 9:06 PM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: -10 Static Ports. Just my opinion
>
>
> > G'day all,
> >
> > JOHN STARN wrote:
> >> I almost sure that the Safeair1 static vents are NOT flush
> >
> > All respect to you John, but as someone with the Safeair1 ports firmly
> > fixed to my side skins, they ARE flush. The kit is fantastic quality
> > and I have absolutely no regrets about going with Safeair1. Will let
> > you know in 3-4 years how accurate they are, but in all my research I
> > have only found 3-4 comments about problems, and there's gotta be more
> > flush ports flying than that.
> >
> > Pic attached (Actually looks a little recessed in the pic, but that is
> > just because of the angle it is taken from).
> >
> > Seeya,
> > Scott Lewis
> > RV-10 40172 VH-DRS
> > Adelaide, South Australia
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I have not yet installed my Safe Air vents, but I did a test fit and the port does
stick out past the skin. It sticks out at least as far as paint would. I will
make a measurement when I get back to the shop in a couple of days.
Larry Rosen
#356
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN"
Sorry, I did say "almost sure", but I had not seen the part up close nor of
the installation, only the photo's of the kit. It would appear that some
more material needs to be ground off the face so the end sticks thru
further. SAFEAIR are you lurking out there ?.
We used the ACS part# 15160, page #348 but changed out the attaching fitting
to a Nylo-seal fitting# 269-N 1/4 tube X 1/8 pipe thread 90 degree elbow
page# 115. As noted these ACS units do protrude thru the skin (with paint)
about the same as the head of a "pop" rivet. You might want to drill out
those three (times 2) rivets grind or have the depth of the cut increased.
It's got to be easier now than
in a few years and after paint.
Again I'm sorry for my assumption. So as not make another error, Scott you
did countersink the face of the port ? KABONG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Lewis" <RV10(at)TPG.COM.AU>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: -10 Static Ports. Just my opinion
G'day all,
JOHN STARN wrote:
I almost sure that the Safeair1 static vents are NOT flush
All respect to you John, but as someone with the Safeair1 ports firmly
fixed to my side skins, they ARE flush. The kit is fantastic quality
and I have absolutely no regrets about going with Safeair1. Will let
you know in 3-4 years how accurate they are, but in all my research I
have only found 3-4 comments about problems,
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Firewall Insualtion? |
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
I have not installed the firewall sound insulation yet. What is
interesting is that a good friend of mine flew with me in 10 the other
day and was astounded at how quite the 10 is without the insulation in
place. He was sure it would be one of the first things that I would
want to get done after the first flights. Now we said he wouldn't think
you would even need it. I will be putting it in. The material I have is
from Hi Tec foams. Randy
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Byron
Gillespie
Subject: RV10-List: Firewall Insualtion?
What are any of you doing relative to firewall insulation? I have
searched the archives and have found very little info. I am putting
together an order to Aircraft Spruce and noticed that they have several
different types. Thought that I would add it on to the floor insulation
order. Just ordered my fuel pumps, etc from Vans yesterday.
Just looking to those who have (and are) forged ahead for the usual
guidance.
Thanks,
Byron
More fuselage decisions - # 40253
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry(at)mc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gauntlet to Scott |
W & B, Something to kick around ...
Has anyone considered building-in a small tool compartment into the empanage
to help with W&B? A compartment designed for dedicated storage of
individual tools. Whereby individual tools could have their special "nest"
to fit into and would not rattle around. They wouldn't weigh much but their
moment arm would have an influence on resolving balance issues. Please
recall how some components are packed and shipped in molded styrofoam and
have their own little molded space the shape of that component. Could
something like this be done safely if considered part of an MEL (minimum
equipment list)?
Regards ...
Jerry Grimmonpre
7A ... still shop building
>
> Well I guess I'll just have to permanently attach the 16 oz water
> bottle I
> carry with me in the cockpit. As you said, size does not matter. Does
> the
> permanently attachment rule also apply to tool bags, golf bags, luggage
> etc.
> etc. that is carried & used in the W&B calculations.
> But the whole idea is NOT to carry bricks, lead shot etc. ALL the time,
> moving them about as required. I'm sure that the same netting that holds
>
> down bricks, lead, extra oil etc would hold down a water bottle. (Like
> the
> ones off-roaders use) The whole idea was to carry an empty container
> until
> needed, fill it and emptied when no longer required.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank Sealant Quantity? |
<42C222F8.1010800(at)cox.net> <42C2A171.3030503(at)MyRV10.com>
Thanks Tim,
I read the writeup on your site. I was hoping to be able to use the 6
oz. cartridges as I've got a ProSeal air gun and it works really well.
Unfortunately the 6 oz. cartridges are pricey (~$23 each) compared to
the quart kit. Maybe I can just pick up one 6 oz. cartridge and re-use
the cartridge/plunger/nozzle with the quart kit.
-Sean #40303
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> If you're really careful with it, you may get by on one can.
> I know I wasn't quite as conservative as I could have been,
> and I used a fair share of 2 cans. If a builder was
> reasonably careful, 2 cans could do all of the control
> surfaces and the tanks, and they could buy the 2 cans
> right away. Store them in the freezer for increased
> shelf life. To me, I'd rather spend an extra $40 and
> not get slowed down. You'll actually use a little on
> the firewall, and a couple other places down the road too.
> I used some to seal my hot air intake vent gaps.
>
> Tim
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
> Sean Stephens wrote:
>>
>> What quantity of tank sealant was required to seal the tanks? Was
>> the quart kit enough to complete both tanks?
>>
>> Thanks...
>>
>> -Sean #40303
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com> |
Ok. I figured I wouldn't do a QB because it would save me almost $10,000
big ones. However, while doing some heavy thinking in the shower, I now
have come up with a way to rationalize my way into a QB. It really will
cost only $3,000 big ones because, and let me know if this is false
economics, I'm not spending close to $7,000 during the year's time it saves
me in building, on a 172 rental and staying current. I'm in the air one
year sooner, hopefully, and since I typically fly 60-70 hours per year, at
$110 per hour rental charge, and since the operating costs will be there for
the -10 no matter what, the $$$ for the QB replaces $$$ for the rental guys.
I have in my head from somewhere that the QB saves around 800 hours build
time, and for me that'd be about 40 weeks. So, given travel and vacations
and whatever, that's about a year.
Waddya think?
John Jessen
(doing priming of VS and Rudder and big time rationalizing)
________________________________________________________________________________
SSA)"
Sounds like you might have a plan! Other option is to go QB with only
one of the kits (wings or fuselage). This has been discussed
previously, but my recommendation would definitely be the fuselage.
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RV10-List: QB in my future
Ok. I figured I wouldn't do a QB because it would save me almost
$10,000
big ones. However, while doing some heavy thinking in the shower, I now
have come up with a way to rationalize my way into a QB. It really will
cost only $3,000 big ones because, and let me know if this is false
economics, I'm not spending close to $7,000 during the year's time it
saves
me in building, on a 172 rental and staying current. I'm in the air one
year sooner, hopefully, and since I typically fly 60-70 hours per year,
at
$110 per hour rental charge, and since the operating costs will be there
for
the -10 no matter what, the $$$ for the QB replaces $$$ for the rental
guys.
I have in my head from somewhere that the QB saves around 800 hours
build
time, and for me that'd be about 40 weeks. So, given travel and
vacations
and whatever, that's about a year.
Waddya think?
John Jessen
(doing priming of VS and Rudder and big time rationalizing)
________________________________________________________________________________
;
| From: | Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank Sealant Quantity? |
Sean,
The other downside of the tubes is for many sections
you have alot left over and for the tanks you will be
pressed to dispense and rivet before it sets up on
you. I started with the tubes but switched to mixing
small batches from the cans and things are much
easier. I use a small digital postal scale ($25) for
getting the mix right and mix ~ 40 gram batches.
I've read about at least one person thinning proseal
with MEK to ease application. Is this accepted
practice? It may be messy, I think the whole tank
sealing process is more tedious than difficult.
Based on my experience with the tubes it would be very
difficult to reuse them. Your cost and time with MEK,
etc to clean them out would be better spent on
popsicle sticks and clecos... :) Most of the mess is
in the riveting anyway.
Eric
--- Sean Stephens wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Tim,
>
> I read the writeup on your site. I was hoping to be
> able to use the 6
> oz. cartridges as I've got a ProSeal air gun and it
> works really well.
> Unfortunately the 6 oz. cartridges are pricey (~$23
> each) compared to
> the quart kit. Maybe I can just pick up one 6 oz.
> cartridge and re-use
> the cartridge/plunger/nozzle with the quart kit.
>
> -Sean #40303
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tank Sealant Quantity? |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
I concur with Eric. I started out on the tail kit with a couple of the
cartridges to use on trailing edges. You not only spend a lot for them,
you don't use most of it (cartridges also have a faster cure time than
the quart kits). It's actually really handy to be able to just mix a
very small batch from the quart cans.
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Panning
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tank Sealant Quantity?
Sean,
The other downside of the tubes is for many sections
you have alot left over and for the tanks you will be
pressed to dispense and rivet before it sets up on
you. I started with the tubes but switched to mixing
small batches from the cans and things are much
easier. I use a small digital postal scale ($25) for
getting the mix right and mix ~ 40 gram batches.
I've read about at least one person thinning proseal
with MEK to ease application. Is this accepted
practice? It may be messy, I think the whole tank
sealing process is more tedious than difficult.
Based on my experience with the tubes it would be very
difficult to reuse them. Your cost and time with MEK,
etc to clean them out would be better spent on
popsicle sticks and clecos... :) Most of the mess is
in the riveting anyway.
Eric
--- Sean Stephens wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Tim,
>
> I read the writeup on your site. I was hoping to be
> able to use the 6
> oz. cartridges as I've got a ProSeal air gun and it
> works really well.
> Unfortunately the 6 oz. cartridges are pricey (~$23
> each) compared to
> the quart kit. Maybe I can just pick up one 6 oz.
> cartridge and re-use
> the cartridge/plunger/nozzle with the quart kit.
>
> -Sean #40303
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy's Abros mail" <randy(at)abros.com> |
| Subject: | Flightline Interiors need a 10 to fit some upholstery in. |
I just go off of the phone with Abby at Flightline Interiors. She is looking
for one additional RV10 that she can use to test fit some interior panels
in. She is looking for someone in a 150 mile radius of Milwaukee WI.. You
can call here at 262-364-6166. This may be an opportunity to save a little
on your interior. I used her for my seats and she is a pleasure to work
with. Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tank Sealant Quantity? |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
I believe you are supposed to use Toluene for thinning Proseal. Don't know if
MEK is compatible but wouldn't want to find out on the tanks.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Panning
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tank Sealant Quantity?
-->
Sean,
The other downside of the tubes is for many sections you have alot left over and
for the tanks you will be pressed to dispense and rivet before it sets up on
you. I started with the tubes but switched to mixing small batches from the cans
and things are much easier. I use a small digital postal scale ($25) for getting
the mix right and mix ~ 40 gram batches.
I've read about at least one person thinning proseal with MEK to ease application.
Is this accepted practice? It may be messy, I think the whole tank sealing
process is more tedious than difficult.
Based on my experience with the tubes it would be very difficult to reuse them.
Your cost and time with MEK, etc to clean them out would be better spent on popsicle
sticks and clecos... :) Most of the mess is in the riveting anyway.
Eric
--- Sean Stephens wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Tim,
>
> I read the writeup on your site. I was hoping to be able to use the 6
> oz. cartridges as I've got a ProSeal air gun and it works really well.
> Unfortunately the 6 oz. cartridges are pricey (~$23
> each) compared to
> the quart kit. Maybe I can just pick up one 6 oz.
> cartridge and re-use
> the cartridge/plunger/nozzle with the quart kit.
>
> -Sean #40303
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Tank Sealant Quantity? |
I used 6 tubes and 1 can, which also did the ailerons and flap trailing edges.
FWIW, order the B-2 sealant in the tubes, it gives you the same working time as
the can stuff. The B-2 = 2 hours...B-1/2 = 1/2 hour etc.The tubes are good for
doing the rear baffle and going over the rivets after your finished. The can
works good for doing the ribs a few at a time and the little pieces when only
1 or 2 oz is needed. The tube and air gun make a real neat job when you have
a large area such as the baffles and it is real nice to use over the dimples,
cut a small notch in the tip so it will glide over the dimples. I would do it
the same way again but I admit two cans would have been much less money than
going with the tubes. Oh yeah, I also used the ATS mixer adapter to stir the tubes...chuck
it up in a 1/2" drill and it mixes the material perfectly. You can
also buy empty tubes for around three bucks each from ATS. Lots of options but
the bottom line is either way it's a mess and you'll be elated when finished.
Rick S.
40185
Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
Sounds good except for the 800 hour savings. It took me 300 hours to
get my Fuse to the Quick build stage and around 250 hours for the wings.
I would except the savings to be more like 600 hour savings.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RV10-List: QB in my future
Ok. I figured I wouldn't do a QB because it would save me almost
$10,000
big ones. However, while doing some heavy thinking in the shower, I now
have come up with a way to rationalize my way into a QB. It really will
cost only $3,000 big ones because, and let me know if this is false
economics, I'm not spending close to $7,000 during the year's time it
saves
me in building, on a 172 rental and staying current. I'm in the air one
year sooner, hopefully, and since I typically fly 60-70 hours per year,
at
$110 per hour rental charge, and since the operating costs will be there
for
the -10 no matter what, the $$$ for the QB replaces $$$ for the rental
guys.
I have in my head from somewhere that the QB saves around 800 hours
build
time, and for me that'd be about 40 weeks. So, given travel and
vacations
and whatever, that's about a year.
Waddya think?
John Jessen
(doing priming of VS and Rudder and big time rationalizing)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com> |
Thanks, Ray. How many hours per week are you averaging?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
[NTK]
Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB in my future
-->
Sounds good except for the 800 hour savings. It took me 300 hours to get my
Fuse to the Quick build stage and around 250 hours for the wings.
I would except the savings to be more like 600 hour savings.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RV10-List: QB in my future
Ok. I figured I wouldn't do a QB because it would save me almost $10,000
big ones. However, while doing some heavy thinking in the shower, I now
have come up with a way to rationalize my way into a QB. It really will
cost only $3,000 big ones because, and let me know if this is false
economics, I'm not spending close to $7,000 during the year's time it saves
me in building, on a 172 rental and staying current. I'm in the air one
year sooner, hopefully, and since I typically fly 60-70 hours per year, at
$110 per hour rental charge, and since the operating costs will be there for
the -10 no matter what, the $$$ for the QB replaces $$$ for the rental guys.
I have in my head from somewhere that the QB saves around 800 hours build
time, and for me that'd be about 40 weeks. So, given travel and vacations
and whatever, that's about a year.
Waddya think?
John Jessen
(doing priming of VS and Rudder and big time rationalizing)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)mail.sprint.com> |
I have been averaging just over 20 hours per week. On July 19th, I will
have been working at it for 1 year and will have just over 1,000 hours
in. I have planned on 20 hours per week for 50 weeks per year. I hope
to be flying at the 2,000 mark. (Oshkosh 2006)
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB in my future
Thanks, Ray. How many hours per week are you averaging?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
[NTK]
Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB in my future
-->
Sounds good except for the 800 hour savings. It took me 300 hours to
get my
Fuse to the Quick build stage and around 250 hours for the wings.
I would except the savings to be more like 600 hour savings.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RV10-List: QB in my future
Ok. I figured I wouldn't do a QB because it would save me almost
$10,000
big ones. However, while doing some heavy thinking in the shower, I now
have come up with a way to rationalize my way into a QB. It really will
cost only $3,000 big ones because, and let me know if this is false
economics, I'm not spending close to $7,000 during the year's time it
saves
me in building, on a 172 rental and staying current. I'm in the air one
year sooner, hopefully, and since I typically fly 60-70 hours per year,
at
$110 per hour rental charge, and since the operating costs will be there
for
the -10 no matter what, the $$$ for the QB replaces $$$ for the rental
guys.
I have in my head from somewhere that the QB saves around 800 hours
build
time, and for me that'd be about 40 weeks. So, given travel and
vacations
and whatever, that's about a year.
Waddya think?
John Jessen
(doing priming of VS and Rudder and big time rationalizing)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PJ Seipel <seipel(at)seznam.cz> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank Sealant Quantity? |
<42C222F8.1010800(at)cox.net> <42C2A171.3030503(at)MyRV10.com>
<42C2C6A6.7010803(at)cox.net>
You can get empty cartridges in several sizes from Aircraft Spruce.
They're pretty inexpensive. The 2 1/2 oz size works pretty well if
you're going to go that route. I never used anything larger than that.
Fill them from your quart can and you get the convenience of the gun
without the huge price.
If you go that route don't forget the nozzles and sealing piece that
goes in the back 'cause they come separately.
PJ
40032
Sean Stephens wrote:
>
> Thanks Tim,
>
> I read the writeup on your site. I was hoping to be able to use the 6
> oz. cartridges as I've got a ProSeal air gun and it works really
> well. Unfortunately the 6 oz. cartridges are pricey (~$23 each)
> compared to the quart kit. Maybe I can just pick up one 6 oz.
> cartridge and re-use the cartridge/plunger/nozzle with the quart kit.
>
> -Sean #40303
>
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
>
>>
>> If you're really careful with it, you may get by on one can.
>> I know I wasn't quite as conservative as I could have been,
>> and I used a fair share of 2 cans. If a builder was
>> reasonably careful, 2 cans could do all of the control
>> surfaces and the tanks, and they could buy the 2 cans
>> right away. Store them in the freezer for increased
>> shelf life. To me, I'd rather spend an extra $40 and
>> not get slowed down. You'll actually use a little on
>> the firewall, and a couple other places down the road too.
>> I used some to seal my hot air intake vent gaps.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
>> Current project: Fuselage
>>
>> Sean Stephens wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> What quantity of tank sealant was required to seal the tanks? Was
>>> the quart kit enough to complete both tanks?
>>>
>>> Thanks...
>>>
>>> -Sean #40303
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
Grumpy,
I am not going to argue the point with you, but I think probably the only
similarities between the RV-10 and the F-16 is that they both fly. There
are a lot of certified airplanes that are much more similar to the RV-10
than the F-16 that have added tip tanks as an STC, without restructuring the
wing. These planes aren't pulling 8G's in an outside loop, though, which
may require a little more engineering.
We have actually discovered that we can fly at 12,000 feet burning 9.5
gal/hour and cruising at 178 without the wheel or gear fairings. Adding
those should take us up to about 190 at least (from the reports we have read
- namely Dan Checkoway). This will give us over 1,000 miles of range with
an hour of reserve. We have thought all along that we wanted aux tanks, but
just realized that we can probably get by without them. Just food for
thought.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GenGrumpy(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aux fuel tanks?
Guys, I'm a newcomer to building the -10, but have years of flight test
experience in high performance aircraft.
I would not - repeat not - add anything to the outboard section of the wing
that Van has not done structural analysis on to include flight tests.
I specifically recall a problem with flight test of the F-16 and outboard
stores that nearly took the outboard section of the wing off.
The structures guys said it would never happen (the torsional loads) until
we showed them on videotape.
They then said "if you let that continue, it would probably rip the wing
off......"
Just a thought from a guy who requires both the design engineer and flight
test folks to say "it's ok"......
grumpy
In a message dated 6/28/2005 4:09:11 PM Central Standard Time,
gyoung@cs-sol.com writes:
Having the weight at the end of the spar is typically a benefit to the load
distribution in flight. It can be a detriment to the landing loads though.
Case in point, my Navion tip tanks allow me to increase my gross weight BUT
only by the amount of fuel carried in the tip tanks. We are also cautioned
to land gently if the tips are filled. It was likely a no-analysis item back
when the STC was approved. Bending loads are one thing but it will also
change the handling and fore-aft sloshing will affect CG and may impart
torsional loads to the wing. Look at Van's write-up on the wing design and
load testing before you think about modifying it.
Regards,
Greg Young
________________________________
Having owned and flown a Cessna 310 for the last three
years and 500 hours I'm not concerned about stability
issues. C310 main tanks are the tip tanks, 50 gallons
per side, the aux tanks are in the wings only 15
gallons per side. This is a very stable aircraft. My
question would be about adding the loading to the end
of the spar?
Steve 40212 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Gaunlet to Scott |
| From: | "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com> |
You basically just give them the dimensions from the front of the flange where
the prop bolts on to the front of the cowling. They then cut the spinner to match
this. You are still OK though. You will just have measure the distance
from the end of your spinner to the mounting area, add =BC" and then fit your
cowling to that dimension. Hope that makes sense.
I am hoping I will be able set up the plane so that I will never have a CG problem as long as I have 50% of the fuel in the wings and full seats and baggage. With four people in the plane, someone will probably have to use the bathroom before long anyway unless we all have stadium pals or stadium gals (check these out, they are great for endurance motorcycle riding). http://www.stadiumpal.com/
Scott Schmidt
sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Ritter
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Gaunlet to Scott
Scott - - Help me understand what cowling measurements you need before ordering
the MT prop. Have I screwed up ordering the MT prop before even thinking about
fitting the cowling?
Mark
>From: "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com>
>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Gaunlet to Scott
>Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:40:36 -0600
>
>Well John I probably will not fly until November at the earliest. My
>panel is 8-10 weeks out from Aerocrafter but things are coming along
>nicely. I hope to start with paint sometime in August or September, do
>final panel install and finish work in October / November. I actually
>thing November is pushing it for me. The finishing work really does
>take a lot of time. I don't see why there will be any problems with the
>MT though. With 1-3 people I will not need any weight in the back. With
>4 and baggage I may build a place in the engine compartment that can be
>easily outfitted with 15-20 lbs. of tungsten carbide. Anyway, I am
>working on the cowling right now so I can get the proper measurements
>needed to order the MT.
>
>Unfortunately you hit the nail on the head when I came to bike riding
>though. As you were sending out your e-mail I was in the middle of this
>year's 24 hour Utah 1088 endurance motorcycle ride. Placed 6th this
>year (a little disappointing for me). I had so much fun this year, it
>was worth the time it took away from the plane. I rode 1418 miles in
>23.5 hours. After I get the feeling back into my right hand I will be
>able to start working on the plane again.
>
>Scott Schmidt
>Cell: 801-319-3094
>sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com
> _____
>
>From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
>Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 10:19 PM
>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Gaunlet to Scott
>
>Jim Ayers has posted repeatedly about (4X) forward commitments on the MT
>prop option. His hand has been out for money but no product to
>challenge Hartzell fore with. Vapor ware (for props), I know better with
>MT. Gerd must have all of his dealers on a really short leash. The high
>ground is getting even steeper by each day with the inaction. Orders
>are being placed. Now, 95% of all the RV-10s on the radar screen are
>going with Hartzell. This is a travesty. I fly an MT and it is a
>quantum jump over the Whirlwind. I Can't believe no MT is available to
>take on this opportunity. MORE THAN 400 opportunities lost (maybe 500
>by September). I just have to believe it can outperform a metal two
>blade on resonance alone.
>
>When it came to the rubber meeting the road, there has been no traction
>on a demonstration of the merits of an MT prop over Hartzell on ANY
>RV-10 powered by either a carbureted (Doug) or fuel injected Lycoming
>540 CID over the heavier Hartzell (regardless of airfoil design). Scott
>the baton is in now in your court. PLEASE. Many of us are now waiting
>with anticipation for your first flight and the day when you can take on
>all comers with Hartzell metal just to blow the BS from the questions
>and produce results on the lighter and sexier prop option. Don't tell
>us its still November 2005 for the first flight. Jim is in hiding. We
>know VAN is tied to Hartzell, Jim remains safely silent in his cave. Do
>all of you guys really believe he doesn't read these posts.
>
> Don't tell us you have another bike ride taking priority over this
>important build issue. Lets kick the dog and see the bite or at least
>hear a muffled bark. Renae would want nothing less.
>
>John - KUAO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GenGrumpy(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aux fuel tanks? |
Jesse - not to argue a point either.
The huge transients we saw were in 1g level flight, and were totally related
to airspeed and weight in the outboard section of the wing as compared to
inner weight (such as full inner tanks and full outer tanks????).
I run the world's largest ground wind tunnel test facility (Arnold Air Force
Base), so I've seen some very strange things happen when all of the engineers
said that it would not happen.
And you do not want to have this happen to you for the first time in actual
flight (you'd rather that Van's guys prove it first).
My thoughts for whatever they're worth.
Grumpy - #40404
In a message dated 6/29/2005 4:39:47 PM Central Standard Time,
jesse(at)itecusa.org writes:
Grumpy,
I am not going to argue the point with you, but I think probably the only
similarities between the RV-10 and the F-16 is that they both fly. There are a
lot of certified airplanes that are much more similar to the RV-10 than the
F-16 that have added tip tanks as an STC, without restructuring the wing. These
planes aren=E2=80=99t pulling 8G=E2=80=99s in an outside loop, though, which may
require a
little more engineering.
We have actually discovered that we can fly at 12,000 feet burning 9.5
gal/hour and cruising at 178 without the wheel or gear fairings. Adding those
should take us up to about 190 at least (from the reports we have read =E2=80=93
namely Dan
Checkoway). This will give us over 1,000 miles of range with an hour of
reserve. We have thought all along that we wanted aux tanks, but just realized
that we can probably get by without them. Just food for thought.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
http://www.itecusa.org/
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PJ Seipel <seipel(at)seznam.cz> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank Sealant Quantity? |
<42C222F8.1010800(at)cox.net> <42C2A171.3030503(at)MyRV10.com>
<42C2C6A6.7010803(at)cox.net> <42C31246.5050406(at)seznam.cz> <42C3259D.1080408(at)cox.net>
You're right! That's funny because they used to be listed; that's how I
found them. You can search on the part numbers below if you want to
order online.
09-00758 PLUNGER FOR PRO SEAL CARTRIDGE $.67
09-00759 PRO SEAL CARTRIDGE ONLY 2-1/2 $.66
09-00760 PRO SEAL CARTRIDGE ONLY 6 OZ $.58
EA4180 NOZZLE FOR PRO-SEAL KITS $1.20
PJ
40032
Sean Stephens wrote:
>
> Thanks PJ, that sounds exactly like what I need. For others looking
> for these, the cartridge components aren't listed in their online
> catalog. Have to call and get the part number or have the print
> catalog handy, which I don't, so I ordered the free print catalog.
>
> -Sean #40303 - Doing the "yuk" work on the flaps.
>
>
> PJ Seipel wrote:
>
>>
>> You can get empty cartridges in several sizes from Aircraft Spruce.
>> They're pretty inexpensive. The 2 1/2 oz size works pretty well if
>> you're going to go that route. I never used anything larger than
>> that. Fill them from your quart can and you get the convenience of
>> the gun without the huge price.
>> If you go that route don't forget the nozzles and sealing piece that
>> goes in the back 'cause they come separately.
>>
>> PJ
>> 40032
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com> |
| Subject: | Tank Sealant Quantity? |
Link below supports Michael's position to thin with Toluene and not MEK.
< http://www.vansairforce.net/articles/tank_sealant.pdf
<http://www.vansairforce.net/articles/tank_sealant.pdf> >
cheers,
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tank Sealant Quantity?
I believe you are supposed to use Toluene for thinning Proseal. Don't know
if MEK is compatible but wouldn't want to find out on the tanks.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [
mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
] On Behalf Of Eric Panning
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tank Sealant Quantity?
-->
Sean,
The other downside of the tubes is for many sections you have alot left over
and for the tanks you will be pressed to dispense and rivet before it sets
up on you. I started with the tubes but switched to mixing small batches
from the cans and things are much easier. I use a small digital postal scale
($25) for getting the mix right and mix ~ 40 gram batches.
I've read about at least one person thinning proseal with MEK to ease
application. Is this accepted practice? It may be messy, I think the whole
tank sealing process is more tedious than difficult.
Based on my experience with the tubes it would be very difficult to reuse
them. Your cost and time with MEK, etc to clean them out would be better
spent on popsicle sticks and clecos... :) Most of the mess is in the
riveting anyway.
Eric
--- Sean Stephens wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Tim,
>
> I read the writeup on your site. I was hoping to be able to use the 6
> oz. cartridges as I've got a ProSeal air gun and it works really well.
> Unfortunately the 6 oz. cartridges are pricey (~$23
> each) compared to
> the quart kit. Maybe I can just pick up one 6 oz.
> cartridge and re-use
> the cartridge/plunger/nozzle with the quart kit.
>
> -Sean #40303
>
====================================
RV10-List Email Forum -
more:
bsp;
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
====================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tube Flaring technique |
MessageI had a friend A&P mechanic come by the house tonight with his tool, which
was the same as mine. He tried about a dozen times and everyone of his cracked
also. He also tried to dip the tube in Alodine for about 15min to soften
it some-no joy. He tried a couple more while taking note of the position of
the crack. They all cracked about the same place along the tube. He also looked
at the lip with a magnifying glass after only one turn and could detect the
crack starting. Couldn't see any obvious defect to the tube. He concluded that
it was a bad batch of tubing that I got.
Anh
#141
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Specketer
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 8:46 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tube Flaring technique
One of the tricks is to have fresh tubing. My Glasair kit had tubing that would
not flair. I had to get replacement tubing. Cut a sample or two and bring
them to a friend and have him try it. That will tell you if it is technique
or tubing.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 11:12 PM
To: RV10
Subject: RV10-List: Tube Flaring technique
What's the trick to good flares? I did fine for half of the tubes and then
managed to crack every one. I tried to carefully cut with a tube cutter, a little
at a time, make sure the ends are squared, deburred. I have one of those
sliding block flaring tools (37deg). One fella in the archive mentioned leaving
5/16" of the tube protruding through the block and turn 7 half turns.
Anh
#141
________________________________________________________________________________
;
| From: | Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Tank Sealant Quantity? |
Thanks,
I didn't thin it on the left tank. Wasn't that bad so
I will likely use it straight on the right. Good to
know though. Perhaps I will try it on something none
critical like the trailing edges. The web site I saw
the builder thinned out until he could spread with a
small acid brush. (Also used for applying flux for
welding, etc)
As to the tubes, I guess if you have the air gun and
get the empty tubes, then fill them in small batches,
this might be the best way. However, the messy part is
still mostly riveting and not the application.
Eric
--- "McGANN, Ron" wrote:
>
>
> Link below supports Michael's position to thin with
> Toluene and not MEK.
>
> <
>
http://www.vansairforce.net/articles/tank_sealant.pdf
>
<http://www.vansairforce.net/articles/tank_sealant.pdf>
> >
>
> cheers,
> Ron
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On
> Behalf Of RV Builder
> (Michael Sausen)
> Sent: Thursday, 30 June 2005 3:34 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tank Sealant Quantity?
>
>
>
> I believe you are supposed to use Toluene for
> thinning Proseal. Don't know
> if MEK is compatible but wouldn't want to find out
> on the tanks.
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [
> mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> ] On
> Behalf Of Eric Panning
> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 11:46 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tank Sealant Quantity?
>
> -->
>
> Sean,
>
> The other downside of the tubes is for many sections
> you have alot left over
> and for the tanks you will be pressed to dispense
> and rivet before it sets
> up on you. I started with the tubes but switched to
> mixing small batches
> from the cans and things are much easier. I use a
> small digital postal scale
> ($25) for getting the mix right and mix ~ 40 gram
> batches.
>
> I've read about at least one person thinning proseal
> with MEK to ease
> application. Is this accepted practice? It may be
> messy, I think the whole
> tank sealing process is more tedious than difficult.
>
> Based on my experience with the tubes it would be
> very difficult to reuse
> them. Your cost and time with MEK, etc to clean them
> out would be better
> spent on popsicle sticks and clecos... :) Most of
> the mess is in the
> riveting anyway.
>
> Eric
>
> --- Sean Stephens wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Thanks Tim,
> >
> > I read the writeup on your site. I was hoping to
> be able to use the 6
> > oz. cartridges as I've got a ProSeal air gun and
> it works really well.
> > Unfortunately the 6 oz. cartridges are pricey
> (~$23
> > each) compared to
> > the quart kit. Maybe I can just pick up one 6 oz.
> > cartridge and re-use
> > the cartridge/plunger/nozzle with the quart kit.
> >
> > -Sean #40303
> >
>
>
>
> ====================================
> RV10-List Email Forum -
> more:
> bsp;
> s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ====================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
;
| From: | Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Conduit In Wing |
More conduit questions....
I've decided to use the van's conduit and picked up 50
feet of it from them today.
Looks like I need to drill the rib holes from the
current 5/8ths to 11/16ths for the smaller outer
radius of the corrigated conduit. The other option
would be to drill to the outer radius of the conduit
and then hold it in place somehow.
Which is the preferred method? I'm guessing drill
11/16ths, stuff it though and it will self lock. Is
this correct?
Thanks!
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tank Sealant Quantity? |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Ron, thanks for sharing the hard work, accurate research and reason why
MEK should be avoided as a viscosity reducer.
John Cox - KUAO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tank Sealant Quantity?
Link below supports Michael's position to thin with Toluene and not MEK.
< http://www.vansairforce.net/articles/tank_sealant.pdf
<http://www.vansairforce.net/articles/tank_sealant.pdf> >
cheers,
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tank Sealant Quantity?
I believe you are supposed to use Toluene for thinning Proseal. Don't
know
if MEK is compatible but wouldn't want to find out on the tanks.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Conduit In Wing |
I don't remember the exact measurement I drilled to, but I
drilled to the outer measurement of the smaller diameter of
the conduit (in the low spots) but then deburred it slightly
larger because that was hard to pull. I didn't go all the way
to the outer diameter of the conduit. By the time I got done,
it wasn't too bad to pull, with 2 people. It was pretty close
to that outer diameter, just not all the way there.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
Eric Panning wrote:
>
> More conduit questions....
>
> I've decided to use the van's conduit and picked up 50
> feet of it from them today.
>
> Looks like I need to drill the rib holes from the
> current 5/8ths to 11/16ths for the smaller outer
> radius of the corrigated conduit. The other option
> would be to drill to the outer radius of the conduit
> and then hold it in place somehow.
>
> Which is the preferred method? I'm guessing drill
> 11/16ths, stuff it though and it will self lock. Is
> this correct?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Eric
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Specketer" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Tube Flaring technique |
Glad I could help. Hope you get some good stuff to replace it. Check
some samples of the new batch before you pay for it.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tube Flaring technique
I had a friend A&P mechanic come by the house tonight with his tool,
which was the same as mine. He tried about a dozen times and everyone
of his cracked also. He also tried to dip the tube in Alodine for about
15min to soften it some-no joy. He tried a couple more while taking
note of the position of the crack. They all cracked about the same
place along the tube. He also looked at the lip with a magnifying glass
after only one turn and could detect the crack starting. Couldn't see
any obvious defect to the tube. He concluded that it was a bad batch of
tubing that I got.
Anh
#141
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary <mailto:speckter(at)comcast.net> Specketer
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tube Flaring technique
One of the tricks is to have fresh tubing. My Glasair kit had tubing
that would not flair. I had to get replacement tubing. Cut a sample or
two and bring them to a friend and have him try it. That will tell you
if it is technique or tubing.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu
Subject: RV10-List: Tube Flaring technique
What's the trick to good flares? I did fine for half of the tubes and
then managed to crack every one. I tried to carefully cut with a tube
cutter, a little at a time, make sure the ends are squared, deburred. I
have one of those sliding block flaring tools (37deg). One fella in the
archive mentioned leaving 5/16" of the tube protruding through the block
and turn 7 half turns.
Anh
#141
________________________________________________________________________________
;
| From: | Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Conduit In Wing |
Thanks for the quick reponses, I think I will follow
Tim's input. I wish I had made up my mind prior to
assembling the wings (except for the bottom skins) as
it is a tight fit for some of the holes (+ the chips!)
I built it to plans but it is a real tight fit through
the stock bushings. I have strobe, AoA, autopilot
harness, nav lighting, pitot heat and landing lights
to run.
Eric
--- wlucas(at)nc.rr.com wrote:
---------------------------------
I read on some RV construction sites where the conduit
holes have been drilled out to the OD of the conduit.
This makes it easy to pull the conduit through the
holes in the ribs. Then, electrical cable zip ties
are placed on each side of a rib, tighten to ensure a
good grip on the conduit, and the excess snipped off.
With a zip tie fastened to each side of the rib, that
baby's not going anywhere. Just a thought!
Wade
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Thursday, June 30, 2005 7:37 am
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Van's Conduit In Wing
>
> I don't remember the exact measurement I drilled to,
but I
> drilled to the outer measurement of the smaller
diameter of
> the conduit (in the low spots) but then deburred it
slightly
> larger because that was hard to pull. I didn't go
all the way
> to the outer diameter of the conduit. By the time I
got done,
> it wasn't too bad to pull, with 2 people. It was
pretty close
> to that outer diameter, just not all the way there.
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
>
> Eric Panning wrote:
rv10(at)yahoo.com>>
> > More conduit questions....
> >
> > I've decided to use the van's conduit and picked
up 50
> > feet of it from them today.
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Conduit In Wing |
I would be cautious about putting cable ties where you can't get to them
later. In my experience, a cable tie outdoors does not last more than a
few years; Indoors they may last 5 years or so.
What happens is that they get brittle and just come apart in pieces.
One more tip: Avoid the black ties anyplace where there can be sunlight.
Even the "UV Stabilized" black ties seem to fail very quickly (on the
order of a year or so.)
-Jim 40384
wlucas(at)nc.rr.com wrote:
>
> I read on some RV construction sites where the conduit holes have been
> drilled out to the OD of the conduit. This makes it easy to pull the
> conduit through the holes in the ribs. Then, electrical cable zip
> ties are placed on each side of a rib, tighten to ensure a good grip
> on the conduit, and the excess snipped off. With a zip tie fastened
> to each side of the rib, that baby's not going anywhere. Just a thought!
>
> Wade
>
> *----- Original Message -----*
>
> *From*: Tim Olson *Date*: Thursday, June 30, 2005
> 7:37 am *Subject*: Re: RV10-List: Van's Conduit In Wing > -->
> >
> > I don't remember the exact measurement I drilled to, but I
> > drilled to the outer measurement of the smaller diameter of
> > the conduit (in the low spots) but then deburred it slightly
> > larger because that was hard to pull. I didn't go all the way
> > to the outer diameter of the conduit. By the time I got done,
> > it wasn't too bad to pull, with 2 people. It was pretty close
> > to that outer diameter, just not all the way there.
> >
> > Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> > Current project: Fuselage
> >
> >
> > Eric Panning wrote:
> > rv10(at)yahoo.com>>
> > > More conduit questions....
> > >
> > > I've decided to use the van's conduit and picked up 50
> > > feet of it from them today.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Van's Conduit In Wing |
| From: | "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com> |
I used a 13/16" first but had a hard time pulling the conduit through.
I then opened it up to 7/8" and that seemed to work much better. It is
much easier to pull through but is not going to go anywhere.
http://freedomflyers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=25#post25
Scott Schmidt
Cell: 801-319-3094
sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Panning
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Van's Conduit In Wing
More conduit questions....
I've decided to use the van's conduit and picked up 50
feet of it from them today.
Looks like I need to drill the rib holes from the
current 5/8ths to 11/16ths for the smaller outer
radius of the corrigated conduit. The other option
would be to drill to the outer radius of the conduit
and then hold it in place somehow.
Which is the preferred method? I'm guessing drill
11/16ths, stuff it though and it will self lock. Is
this correct?
Thanks!
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Wade <jwadejr(at)direcway.com> |
Just wanted to introduce Julie and I to you. We have been following your
emails with great interest, but have never posted any of our own. We started
our RV-10 empenage April 25th finished yesterday. Waiting for fuselage and
wings end of July. Slow build. We have learned a lot just reading your posts
thanks for all the info. We will have all glass panel, new lycoming, tip
tanks, aero composite 2 blade prop. This is the first kit plane we have
built. We have restored several antique aircraft. Working with all new parts
is a dream!!!! Julie, my wife works right along with me everyday and couldn
t get it done without her. Keep us the good work, you all are a great
inspiration.
Blue Skies
Jim & Julie Wade
40383
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net> |
Welcome neighbor!
I'm just starting the Elevators, and am working totally alone so it
appears you're way ahead of me now!
What tip tanks are you going to use?
-Jim 40384
Jim Wade wrote:
> Just wanted to introduce Julie and I to you. We have been following
> your emails with great interest, but have never posted any of our own.
> We started our RV-10 empenage April 25th finished yesterday. Waiting
> for fuselage and wings end of July. Slow build. We have learned a lot
> just reading your posts, thanks for all the info. We will have all
> glass panel, new lycoming, tip tanks, aero composite 2 blade prop.
> This is the first kit plane we have built. We have restored several
> antique aircraft. Working with all new parts is a dream!!!! Julie, my
> wife works right along with me everyday and couldn't get it done
> without her. Keep us the good work, you all are a great inspiration.
> Blue Skies
> Jim & Julie Wade
> 40383
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Sponcil" <bsponcil(at)belinblank.org> |
report
You claim to be a newbie yet you've already finished the empenage!! I JUST ordered
my tail kit so I've got to be the newest RV10 builder (at least for the next
day or two). Strangely I think my wife Christine is more pumped about the project
than I am and I hate to admit it, but at this point she's a better riveter
than I am. Oh well. I'm sure to get plenty of practice in the next month or
two.
Anyway, good luck and keep us posted on your progress....
-Brian
Iowa City, IA
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Wade
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 12:45 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Newbe!!!!!
Just wanted to introduce Julie and I to you. We have been following your
emails with great interest, but have never posted any of our own. We started
our RV-10 empenage April 25th finished yesterday. Waiting for fuselage and wings
end of July. Slow build. We have learned a lot just reading your posts, thanks
for all the info. We will have all glass panel, new lycoming, tip tanks,
aero composite 2 blade prop. This is the first kit plane we have built. We have
restored several antique aircraft. Working with all new parts is a dream!!!!
Julie, my wife works right along with me everyday and couldn't get it done without
her. Keep us the good work, you all are a great inspiration.
Blue Skies
Jim & Julie Wade
40383
________________________________________________________________________________
;
| From: | Nikolaos Napoli <owl40188(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aux fuel tanks? |
In general I agree with Grumpy.
The idea that if you add weight to the outboard wing you will eventually have problems
is a given. The only unknown is for a particular design at what point
it occurs. I don't think any of the builders know this at this time and Van's
might not have a good handle on it either. The problem is considerably more
complex than one might envision, which is brought to light by the statement
that what happened to the F16 wing was surprising to the engineers working on
it. Once a few RV10s with mods accumulate some hours we will have a better idea
of how strong the wing is and how much more load it can safely take if any.
It is also not a matter of if the aircraft are similar or not. Its simply a matter
of what the static and fatigue margins are, what the aeroelastic response
of the wing is, how much the loads are increased and how the load distributions
have changed.
I would advise extreme caution during any deviation from what Van's intended.
In most cases small changes work out okay because the margins are usually high
but not always. We know of at least one RV8 crash where the wing broke. To
my knowledge the cause has not been determined. In fact, I remember reading another
case in the Rviator where one of the 2 seater RV's encountered flutter.
Also keep in mind that as a general rule of thumb a 10% increase in load (stress)
will halve the fatigue life. Developing a fatigue crack in the spar is usually
not a good thing. I am not saying that adding the outboard tanks is a problem
or not a problem. I simple suggesting that builders take any mods seriously.
Also remember that Vans did not test the wing to failure. The structure
was clearly straining during the test as evidenced by all the noise per the
test report, and your wing might not be as strong as the one that was tested.
The above is just my opinion, I know not all agree with it and thats ok.
GenGrumpy(at)aol.com wrote:
Jesse - not to argue a point either.
The huge transients we saw were in 1g level flight, and were totally related to
airspeed and weight in the outboard section of the wing as compared to inner
weight (such as full inner tanks and full outer tanks????).
I run the world's largest ground wind tunnel test facility (Arnold Air Force Base),
so I've seen some very strange things happen when all of the engineers said
that it would not happen.
And you do not want to have this happen to you for the first time in actual flight
(you'd rather that Van's guys prove it first).
My thoughts for whatever they're worth.
Grumpy - #40404
In a message dated 6/29/2005 4:39:47 PM Central Standard Time, jesse(at)itecusa.org
writes:
Grumpy,
I am not going to argue the point with you, but I think probably the only similarities
between the RV-10 and the F-16 is that they both fly. There are a lot
of certified airplanes that are much more similar to the RV-10 than the F-16
that have added tip tanks as an STC, without restructuring the wing. These planes
arent pulling 8Gs in an outside loop, though, which may require a little
more engineering.
We have actually discovered that we can fly at 12,000 feet burning 9.5 gal/hour
and cruising at 178 without the wheel or gear fairings. Adding those should
take us up to about 190 at least (from the reports we have read namely Dan Checkoway).
This will give us over 1,000 miles of range with an hour of reserve.
We have thought all along that we wanted aux tanks, but just realized that
we can probably get by without them. Just food for thought.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
http://www.itecusa.org/
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Byron Gillespie" <bgill1(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Firewall Insualtion? |
Thanks for the reply;
My interest is probably more for the insulation characteristics. I am in
the South Georgia area and the heat can be nasty. Can't seem to get to
altitude quick enough. Aircraft Spruce has something called "The
Insulator" that looks interesting. May give it a try and see how it
works.
Has anyone else tried this material?
Thanks,
Byron
Starting on the fuselage sides # 40253
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Firewall Insualtion?
I have not installed the firewall sound insulation yet. What is
interesting is that a good friend of mine flew with me in 10 the other
day and was astounded at how quite the 10 is without the insulation in
place. He was sure it would be one of the first things that I would
want to get done after the first flights. Now we said he wouldn't think
you would even need it. I will be putting it in. The material I have is
from Hi Tec foams. Randy
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Byron
Gillespie
Subject: RV10-List: Firewall Insualtion?
What are any of you doing relative to firewall insulation? I have
searched the archives and have found very little info. I am putting
together an order to Aircraft Spruce and noticed that they have several
different types. Thought that I would add it on to the floor insulation
order. Just ordered my fuel pumps, etc from Vans yesterday.
Just looking to those who have (and are) forged ahead for the usual
guidance.
Thanks,
Byron
More fuselage decisions - # 40253
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Gurley" <rngurley(at)mindspring.com> |
I have searched the archives and not found an answer to the following
questions. To those of you who are going to use a dual electrical system,
where have you placed the second battery? What is the effect does the
placement have on weight and balance.
Thanks for you help
Dick Gurley
#40414
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Second Battery |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
I modified the battery tray to accept a pair of PC-680s (17 AH each) instead of
the stock single 25 AH battery. Adds a few pounds total weight but I opted for
extra redundancy that will partially offset the ballast that the factory carries.
Bob
--------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Second Battery
I have searched the archives and not found an answer to the following questions.
To those of you who are going to use a dual electrical system, where have you
placed the second battery? What is the effect does the placement have on weight
and balance.
Thanks for you help
Dick Gurley
#40414
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com> |
Hey Bob,
Do you have any photos of your tray mod?
cheers,
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
(US SSA)
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Second Battery
I modified the battery tray to accept a pair of PC-680s (17 AH each) instead
of the stock single 25 AH battery. Adds a few pounds total weight but I
opted for extra redundancy that will partially offset the ballast that the
factory carries.
Bob
--------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Second Battery
I have searched the archives and not found an answer to the following
questions. To those of you who are going to use a dual electrical system,
where have you placed the second battery? What is the effect does the
placement have on weight and balance.
Thanks for you help
Dick Gurley
#40414
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Tank Sealant Quantity? |
As a bonafide card carrying OSHA compliance officer I can give you several reasons
to avoid BOTH of these chemicals. Anyone ever have a low grade headache for
a few days after working on your tanks? If not you didn't get your head into
the mix good enough, or you had an SCBA, organic masks provide a low level (read
not much) of protection and over a period of two hours your polluted. Toulene
makes wonderful explosions, MEK is less volatile due to a higher boiling point.
Guys, get outside if possible. I finished hazardous materials refresher
this week. Explained my low grade 5 day headache. (Tanks!!!!) I won't open the
old aluminum dust explosion conversations again. If you have a pile of that
dust around your grinder, ground yourself and carefully sweep it into the trash
bin. DON'T use your shop vac...static electricity can work wonders to light
off that stuff. Damn videos scare the crap outta ya!!
Rick S.
40185
Wings
(Almost done,...staring at the tips) waiting for the fuse.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Conduit In Wing |
Eric,
7/8" worked perfect for me...remember you need to allow the ribs to move when doing
the bottom skins. Try to get them at a perfect 90 to the spar prior to siliconing
the conduit to the ribs. I applied silicone prior to clecoing the skins
on and match drilling to make sure the conduit was straight and not to loose
or tight prior to completing the bottom skins.
Rick S.
40185
Tips
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neville Murray" <alpinesr(at)onthenet.com.au> |
Please remove my email address from your list.
Thank you for the information that you have provided.
Regards
Neville
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net> |
The dual Odyssey batteries seem like a pretty slick idea. Anyone have any
practical CG numbers that could see if there's any potential situation with
too aft a CG with the extra 5.5lbs at the battery location?
To further the question, I know there was a PDF file posted from the
finishing kit weight & balance info but I can't find it in the archives.
Could someone steer me in the right direction?
Thanks,
Marcus
40286
QB wings & finishing kit shipping next week
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US
SSA)
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Second Battery
I modified the battery tray to accept a pair of PC-680s (17 AH each) instead
of the stock single 25 AH battery. Adds a few pounds total weight but I
opted for extra redundancy that will partially offset the ballast that the
factory carries.
Bob
--------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Second Battery
I have searched the archives and not found an answer to the following
questions. To those of you who are going to use a dual electrical system,
where have you placed the second battery? What is the effect does the
placement have on weight and balance.
Thanks for you help
Dick Gurley
#40414
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
<http://www.myrv10.com/tips/index.html> Posted April 30th at 7:42PM
from Tim's site. I have created a nifty excel sheet which allows
unlimited manipulation of weights and balance changes. And I have
requested Tim give me the datum arm to the rear tie down mount for that
70 pound jettisonable water bottle idea.
That's 12147 inch pounds to relocate along the longitudinal somewhere.
Shaking the bush.
John _ KUAO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Second Battery
The dual Odyssey batteries seem like a pretty slick idea. Anyone have
any
practical CG numbers that could see if there's any potential situation
with
too aft a CG with the extra 5.5lbs at the battery location?
To further the question, I know there was a PDF file posted from the
finishing kit weight & balance info but I can't find it in the archives.
Could someone steer me in the right direction?
Thanks,
Marcus
40286
QB wings & finishing kit shipping next week
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Wade <jwadejr(at)direcway.com> |
Not sure how to reply to this,hope this works.Using Safeair1 tip tanks.
-------Original Message-------
From: James Hein
Date: 06/30/05 13:17:18
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Newbe!!!!!
Welcome neighbor!
I'm just starting the Elevators, and am working totally alone so it
appears you're way ahead of me now!
What tip tanks are you going to use?
-Jim 40384
Jim Wade wrote:
> Just wanted to introduce Julie and I to you. We have been following
> your emails with great interest, but have never posted any of our own.
> We started our RV-10 empenage April 25th finished yesterday. Waiting
> for fuselage and wings end of July. Slow build. We have learned a lot
> just reading your posts, thanks for all the info. We will have all
> glass panel, new lycoming, tip tanks, aero composite 2 blade prop.
> This is the first kit plane we have built. We have restored several
> antique aircraft. Working with all new parts is a dream!!!! Julie, my
> wife works right along with me everyday and couldn't get it done
> without her. Keep us the good work, you all are a great inspiration.
> Blue Skies
> Jim & Julie Wade
> 40383
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
W&B info is on Tim's website at www.myrv10.com/tips/index.html along
with a bunch of other useful info.
Also, it's it bit more than 5.5 lbs as a total if you figure in the
battery contactor. With that said though, it was Van's intent to have
the CG as far forward as possibly because it's easy to move it aft
(ballast, luggage, etc). It would be pretty difficult to move it the
other way though.
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Second Battery
The dual Odyssey batteries seem like a pretty slick idea. Anyone have
any
practical CG numbers that could see if there's any potential situation
with
too aft a CG with the extra 5.5lbs at the battery location?
To further the question, I know there was a PDF file posted from the
finishing kit weight & balance info but I can't find it in the archives.
Could someone steer me in the right direction?
Thanks,
Marcus
40286
QB wings & finishing kit shipping next week
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
(US
SSA)
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Second Battery
I modified the battery tray to accept a pair of PC-680s (17 AH each)
instead
of the stock single 25 AH battery. Adds a few pounds total weight but I
opted for extra redundancy that will partially offset the ballast that
the
factory carries.
Bob
--------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Second Battery
I have searched the archives and not found an answer to the following
questions. To those of you who are going to use a dual electrical
system,
where have you placed the second battery? What is the effect does the
placement have on weight and balance.
Thanks for you help
Dick Gurley
#40414
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Lewis <rv10(at)tpg.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: -10 Static Ports. Just my opinion |
<001301c57c5a$f5e20b60$e3926947@starnfamily> <42C21E48.2000603(at)tpg.com.au> <003801c57c70$396f6430$e3926947@starnfamily>
G'day,
JOHN STARN wrote:
> Again I'm sorry for my assumption. So as not make another error, Scott
> you did countersink the face of the port ? KABONG
Short answer - Yes.
Long answer - The Safeair1 ports have a series of dimples on their rear
surface (see the Safeair1 website for pics). This allows the easy
drilling of the port to suit 2, 3, 4 or 6 rivet spacing. I chose 3 as I
figured it was aesthetically best with good attachment of the port to
the skin. I then match-drilled the skin to the port (after Unibit-ing
Van's pre-punched static hole to 1/4"), dimpled the skin and countersunk
the holes on the ports until they sat flush to the skin. Rivets were
easily squeezed.
Have fun,
Scott Lewis
RV-10 40172 VH-DRS
Adelaide, South Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
;
| From: | Brcue Patton <bpattonsoa(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Toxic Solvents - Tank Sealant Quantity? |
Here is another reason to avoid excess chemicals. Early this year I was doing
some refinish work on my glider with the usual automotive paints. I was using
the same precautions I had always used when building the glider (painted with
Delstar automotive paints) and the RV-6A (primed with self etching primer inside
painted with Imron on the outside). These consisted spraying with a respirator
for most of the automotive paint and a positive pressure mask for the Imron.
Cleanup was usually done with acetone or the paint thinner. Some effort
was made to protect my hands from exposure to the solvents. When spraying small
quantities, I generally did not set up the positive pressure system, but had
fans to ventilate the area. I probably have used 100 gallons of acetone in
my workshop.
About February I started having strange feelings in my feet. Was originally diagnosed
as a ruptured disk and treated with rest and physical therapy. When this
did nothing, they did the MRI which found nothing in the back. Further work
came to the conclusion of nerve damage due to exposure to toxic solvents.
So now I can't wear tight shoes, and have this feeling like my feet are asleep.
According to the Dr's It may or may not go away, in another year or so. I
am fortunate that the arms and hands were not impacted, would prevent me from
doing a -10 when I retire. (I plan on minimal priming and using an Alodine pencil.)
This is suppose to happen only with "chronic" exposure to solvents, except when
it takes less. Just a warning.
Bruce Patton
Rick wrote:
As a bonafide card carrying OSHA compliance officer I can give you several reasons
to avoid BOTH of these chemicals.
________________________________________________________________________________
;
| From: | Darton Steve <sfdarton(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: - Aileron bearing |
When assembling the aileron hinge bracket assemblies
I'm looking at the inside of the bearing mount hole on
W-1013A. I have deburred the edge of the hole. Do I
need to LIGHTLY dress the inside of the hole surface
before pressing the bearing in? I realize the hole
still needs to be the correct size for a "press fit".
Steve
40212
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Combs" <jimc(at)mail.infra-read.com> |
| Subject: | Re: - Aileron bearing |
I made sure the edges of the parts were debured. (I am using rattle can self etching
primer, as part of the get it ready to prime, I use 3M Scotchbright on
a palm sander to scuff the part for a few seconds then prime). Following that
operation I pressed the three parts together (with bearing in place). Clecoed
and riveted accordingly. The result was a good fit with the three bracket parts
closed at the bearing edge.
You just don't want the outside bearing race to freely turn. It did take some
force to press the three parts together (I used a vise with appropriate sized
3/8" sockets to localize the clamping force on the area around the outside perimeter
of the bearing).
Jim C
N312F Reserved, Fuselage
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Darton Steve <sfdarton(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 08:14:06 -0700 (PDT)
When assembling the aileron hinge bracket assemblies
I'm looking at the inside of the bearing mount hole on
W-1013A. I have deburred the edge of the hole. Do I
need to LIGHTLY dress the inside of the hole surface
before pressing the bearing in? I realize the hole
still needs to be the correct size for a "press fit".
Steve
40212
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com> |
| Subject: | New medical condition to report |
Ok. There's a new medical condition that has come to my attention only
recently, directly ascribable to RV construction. It's called Buildis
Interruptus, and it rears its ugly head whenever the builder first realizes
that travel or deck building or some other obligation will put him/her in a
position away from the project by more than a 24 hour period. Symptoms
generally include: 1. reading saved RV-10 email more than twice; 2.
searching the web for more RV-10 sites; 3. while traveling, reading the new
tool and avionics catalogs cover to cover; 4. cursing that you didn't bring
the build manual with you on the trip; 5. not talking to your significant
other who demanded the (take your pick) deck, patio, addition, vacation,
house painting, tree removal...; 6. making sounds as if you are the
pneumatic squeezer and drill (but coming up with interesting staccato beats,
nonetheless); 7. sketching out the storage stand yet to be built for your
Empennage and Cone and Wings; 8. scheming how to put up your own builder's
web site (you mean there's computer languages beyond Fortran, Cobol and
Lisp?); 9. general malaise and inconsolable depression, and 10. obsessive
whining and pleading to your significant other (thereby losing all future
positions of negotiating strength) that you want to quit whatever it is
you've been forced to do and get back to Baby.
There is no known cure other than reconnection with the project. Once back
at the project, however, there is a problem often suffered by those who have
contracted Buildis Interruptus. It's called Cleco Oversqueezus. It occurs
when the recovering Buildis Interruptus patient, deprived of the habit
forming project drug, over indulges by staying at the build site for more
than 15 hours straight, cutting, clecoing and deburring everything in sight.
Happy 4th, all.
John Jessen
(3200 miles from my project, and 8 days away from getting back)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New medical condition to report |
Funny post, but yet so true. I'm leaving for a two week
vacation in a week and going to stop by Oshkosh on my way back. Right
now I'm finding myself hoping the two weeks of vacation goes really fast
so I can get to Oshkosh and back to my project. I don't think I can
remember wishing a vacation would ever go fast before!
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RV10-List: New medical condition to report
Ok. There's a new medical condition that has come to my attention only
recently, directly ascribable to RV construction. It's called Buildis
Interruptus, and it rears its ugly head whenever the builder first
realizes
that travel or deck building or some other obligation will put him/her
in a
position away from the project by more than a 24 hour period. Symptoms
generally include: 1. reading saved RV-10 email more than twice; 2.
searching the web for more RV-10 sites; 3. while traveling, reading the
new
tool and avionics catalogs cover to cover; 4. cursing that you didn't
bring
the build manual with you on the trip; 5. not talking to your
significant
other who demanded the (take your pick) deck, patio, addition, vacation,
house painting, tree removal...; 6. making sounds as if you are the
pneumatic squeezer and drill (but coming up with interesting staccato
beats,
nonetheless); 7. sketching out the storage stand yet to be built for
your
Empennage and Cone and Wings; 8. scheming how to put up your own
builder's
web site (you mean there's computer languages beyond Fortran, Cobol and
Lisp?); 9. general malaise and inconsolable depression, and 10.
obsessive
whining and pleading to your significant other (thereby losing all
future
positions of negotiating strength) that you want to quit whatever it is
you've been forced to do and get back to Baby.
There is no known cure other than reconnection with the project. Once
back
at the project, however, there is a problem often suffered by those who
have
contracted Buildis Interruptus. It's called Cleco Oversqueezus. It
occurs
when the recovering Buildis Interruptus patient, deprived of the habit
forming project drug, over indulges by staying at the build site for
more
than 15 hours straight, cutting, clecoing and deburring everything in
sight.
Happy 4th, all.
John Jessen
(3200 miles from my project, and 8 days away from getting back)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | SB wing kit and impending builder interuptus |
I recently saw a post that mentioned someone had recently ordered their
wings and was given a ship date of early Aug (8?) which is much sooner
than the 14-15 weeks posted on their web site. I just got off the phone
with Van's and was told that 14-15 weeks IS the current lead time for
wing kits!. I'm making progress at a rate that's going to have me ready
for my next kit in 6-7 weeks. I spoke with builder support about
ordering the fuse kit which only has an 8 week lead time, but they
informed me that the centersection spar is required for the fuse kit!
and while you could make some progress without it, you'd obviously be
limited at some point. Apparently, it is the wing spars that are
causing the 14-15 week lead times.
So:
Anybody out there with a SB wing kit delivery position that wants to
delay delivery that would be willing to trade 'positions'? or alternately:
How much work (hours) can you complete on the SB Fuse without having the
spar available? I'm averaging 35-40 hours per week, wondering if there's
enough work to keep busy until the spars/wings are available?
Deems Davis
#406
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Specketer" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | New medical condition to report |
Then a few years after you are flying your completed project, it will
hit again and you will have to start another to satisfy the urge.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
[NTK]
Subject: RE: RV10-List: New medical condition to report
-->
Funny post, but yet so true. I'm leaving for a two week
vacation in a week and going to stop by Oshkosh on my way back. Right
now I'm finding myself hoping the two weeks of vacation goes really fast
so I can get to Oshkosh and back to my project. I don't think I can
remember wishing a vacation would ever go fast before!
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RV10-List: New medical condition to report
Ok. There's a new medical condition that has come to my attention only
recently, directly ascribable to RV construction. It's called Buildis
Interruptus, and it rears its ugly head whenever the builder first
realizes that travel or deck building or some other obligation will put
him/her in a position away from the project by more than a 24 hour
period. Symptoms generally include: 1. reading saved RV-10 email more
than twice; 2. searching the web for more RV-10 sites; 3. while
traveling, reading the new tool and avionics catalogs cover to cover; 4.
cursing that you didn't bring the build manual with you on the trip; 5.
not talking to your significant other who demanded the (take your pick)
deck, patio, addition, vacation, house painting, tree removal...; 6.
making sounds as if you are the pneumatic squeezer and drill (but coming
up with interesting staccato beats, nonetheless); 7. sketching out the
storage stand yet to be built for your Empennage and Cone and Wings; 8.
scheming how to put up your own builder's web site (you mean there's
computer languages beyond Fortran, Cobol and Lisp?); 9. general malaise
and inconsolable depression, and 10. obsessive whining and pleading to
your significant other (thereby losing all future positions of
negotiating strength) that you want to quit whatever it is you've been
forced to do and get back to Baby.
There is no known cure other than reconnection with the project. Once
back at the project, however, there is a problem often suffered by those
who have contracted Buildis Interruptus. It's called Cleco
Oversqueezus. It occurs when the recovering Buildis Interruptus
patient, deprived of the habit forming project drug, over indulges by
staying at the build site for more than 15 hours straight, cutting,
clecoing and deburring everything in sight.
Happy 4th, all.
John Jessen
(3200 miles from my project, and 8 days away from getting back)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SB wing kit and impending builder interuptus |
Deems Davis,
That was me.
I called Van's, was told 15 weeks so I put my deposit down (2 weeks
or so ago), and got a letter saying my scheduled ship date is August 8th.
Put your deposit on the wing kit and see what date is on the letter.
I rushed to put a deposit on it since the lead time I was told was 15
weeks.
Let me know what your scheduled date is, and if I'm not yet ready
when the time comes maybe we can swap kits.
-Jim 40384, Starting Elevators.
Deems Davis wrote:
>
> I recently saw a post that mentioned someone had recently ordered
> their wings and was given a ship date of early Aug (8?) which is much
> sooner than the 14-15 weeks posted on their web site. I just got off
> the phone with Van's and was told that 14-15 weeks IS the current lead
> time for wing kits!. I'm making progress at a rate that's going to
> have me ready for my next kit in 6-7 weeks. I spoke with builder
> support about ordering the fuse kit which only has an 8 week lead
> time, but they informed me that the centersection spar is required for
> the fuse kit! and while you could make some progress without it, you'd
> obviously be limited at some point. Apparently, it is the wing spars
> that are causing the 14-15 week lead times.
>
> So:
> Anybody out there with a SB wing kit delivery position that wants to
> delay delivery that would be willing to trade 'positions'? or
> alternately:
>
> How much work (hours) can you complete on the SB Fuse without having
> the spar available? I'm averaging 35-40 hours per week, wondering if
> there's enough work to keep busy until the spars/wings are available?
>
> Deems Davis
>
> #406
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: -10 Static Ports. Just my opinion |
Attached is how my Safe Air Static port fits. The port does stick out
from the skin. Not much, but at least as much as paint. (still need to
dimple, counter sink and rivit, I wish I did it when I was putting
together the tail cone)
Larry Rosen
#356
LarryRosen(at)comcast.net wrote:
> I have not yet installed my Safe Air vents, but I did a test fit and
> the port does stick out past the skin. It sticks out at least as far
> as paint would. I will make a measurement when I get back to the shop
> in a couple of days.
>
> Larry Rosen
> #356
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SB wing kit and impending builder interuptus |
I ordered my QB wings and fuselage back in March and was promised a
August ship date. They were ready 2 weeks ago. So, don't be suprised if
the wings are ready early. If anyone is planning on ordering, I would
suggest you do it before Oshkosh. There will be a surge of orders
during the show.
James Hein wrote:
>
> Deems Davis,
> That was me.
> I called Van's, was told 15 weeks so I put my deposit down (2 weeks
> or so ago), and got a letter saying my scheduled ship date is August 8th.
>
> Put your deposit on the wing kit and see what date is on the
> letter. I rushed to put a deposit on it since the lead time I was told
> was 15 weeks.
>
> Let me know what your scheduled date is, and if I'm not yet ready
> when the time comes maybe we can swap kits.
>
> -Jim 40384, Starting Elevators.
>
> Deems Davis wrote:
>
>>
>> I recently saw a post that mentioned someone had recently ordered
>> their wings and was given a ship date of early Aug (8?) which is
>> much sooner than the 14-15 weeks posted on their web site. I just got
>> off the phone with Van's and was told that 14-15 weeks IS the current
>> lead time for wing kits!. I'm making progress at a rate that's going
>> to have me ready for my next kit in 6-7 weeks. I spoke with builder
>> support about ordering the fuse kit which only has an 8 week lead
>> time, but they informed me that the centersection spar is required
>> for the fuse kit! and while you could make some progress without it,
>> you'd obviously be limited at some point. Apparently, it is the wing
>> spars that are causing the 14-15 week lead times.
>>
>> So:
>> Anybody out there with a SB wing kit delivery position that wants to
>> delay delivery that would be willing to trade 'positions'? or
>> alternately:
>>
>> How much work (hours) can you complete on the SB Fuse without having
>> the spar available? I'm averaging 35-40 hours per week, wondering if
>> there's enough work to keep busy until the spars/wings are available?
>>
>> Deems Davis
>>
>> #406
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sandra & Rick Lark" <jrlark(at)bmts.com> |
| Subject: | Bendix Magneto's |
Hi all: This was posted to the Cardinal Flyers Online (CFO)digest a couple
of days ago. I don't know if it's applicable to anyone but certainly looks
like it includes Lycoming 540's. Regards, Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
;
| From: | Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Tip for storing bottom wing skins |
Hi,
If you are working on the SB wing kit and have
finished riveting the top skin, you can store the
bottom skins on the top skin side by clecoing them to
the gap seal holes. (This assumes you are storing the
wings vert.) The rivet holes are not all aligned but
at least 3 to 4 should be - plenty to hold the skin.
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net> |
| Subject: | Weld-On 10 Gouge |
I had so much fun glueing the windows on that I thought I'd pass some gouge along.
Weld-On 10 gives you more time to work with than I thought. I spent about
4 minutes per window to smear it on and all were fine. The jar says pot life
is about 30 minutes. It is runny as others have said. However, a thin film
builds quickly and that stops the runniness soon after you apply it. I used
the popcycle sticks that they give you to apply. The rear windows being vertical
were harder to prevent the glue from running. Once I put it on the flange
of the cabin top I held the stick there at the bottom momentarily to stop the
flow then continue. You can go over the glue once after the initial application.
After that it bunches up and gets ugly. I used about 60% of a jar for
each window. Too bad they don't make smaller jars.
Anh
#141
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Weld-On 10 Gouge |
I should add some clarification and retract something to my post.
3-4 minutes to apply the glue was probably a bit too long. I didn't time myself
but it was probably half that. It is best to work as quickly as you can. The
important thing is that fresh glue is needed to chemically dissolve the plexi
to make a good bond. I don't want to give the impression that you have 30minutes
of pot life to work with.
Anh
#141
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | New Toy - Chelton Screenshots |
Well, I finally found the perfect Levitra/viagara substitute for
pilots.....yesterday I went and picked up one of my 3 Chelton
screens!!
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/20050702/index.html
I got it powered up by a 2.75A 12V Radio Shack supply, and today I
interfaced it with a keyboard. I was able to boot it up, and
even update the operating software to version 5.0C from 5.0B.
The Terrain now looks far better than before. For those who
remember the blacks and browns of the terrain, they're now much
more vivid and pretty. I took some awful crappy pictures while
I was playing with it tonight so you could see some of the screens.
It's even better than the training DVD and demo video shows.
Also, after playing with it, I can see that my primary Nav/Com
is going to be my SL-30, not the GNS-480.....let me tell you that
this thing is SLICK! That GNS-480's looking mighty weak compared
to this thing. Also (and please don't be offended or take it
personally if you bought GRT stuff), I was able to hold in my
hands, side by side, a Chelton and GRT screen. Let me say
that there is really no comparison. The manufacturing quality
is much better on the Chelton, and you can tell they take better
care during assembly. The screen is much nicer looking, especially
the lighted and labeled buttons. The Chelton weighs a little more,
but you can tell you're getting some substantial power there.
I think it uses a 650Mhz or so Celeron processor. When you power
them on, the graphics are also no comparison. That Chelton blows
the doors of the GRT. I'm extremely glad I went this way, and
if I should have my snip job fail, I'll name my next kid Stein,
in thanks for his taking the time to educate me as to the benefits
of this beautiful system. Some of the stuff from Stark is a little
delayed in coming in so far, but we're still planning to have my
panel on display at OSH at booth 2030 in Hanger B (SteinAir's Booth).
My engine will also be at Aerosport....look for the Gold and Chrome
IO-540.
I also took a minute to take some photos of something else I think
I forgot to post a long time ago. If you remember back in about
October there was a hand carved RV-10 model on Ebay that took
what seemed like forever to sell. Turns out my dad bought it
back then, and gave it to me for my birthday later last year.
It was a great surprise. I'm going to try to talk to the guy
who made it and see if he'll repaint it with my paint scheme, now
that I have it picked out.
Here are some photos of that:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/misc/index.html
Also, I added some additional photos of my fuel lines, and
some of that junk in the fuselage section.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050702/index.html
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Skybolt Cowling Fastener kit |
When I was at Stein's a couple days ago, I noticed the camloc fasteners
on one of his planes. I'd been kind of skeptical about the hinge
system used to install the canopy, and Stein confirmed that yes,
there are issues.
* Hinge pins can work their way out and into the prop on the
horizontal pin.
* eyelits will eventually break off the lower hinge sections.
* It's inconvenient to get inside the cowl with your hands and
pull out those pins and it isn't that easy to get them back in.
The hinge pin system does look nice though, as there's not much
exposed and it's real smooth.
My Sundowner had/has camlocs on the cowl, and at least for
the top cowl cover, I can't imagine an easier way to do things.
At minimum, I intend to put camlocs or screws and nutplates on
the top cowl. Screws would be cheaper, but you'll replace screws
and maybe some nutplates over time, as it will be hard to keep from
chewing up screwheads.
I'm seriously considering the camloc kit from Skybolt.
http://www.skybolt.com/store/ProductDetail.asp?ProductID=502
I know Jesse said they put screws on top and hinge on bottom.
Anyone else do anything different so far? This skybolt kit,
although more money, would definitely make popping the top cover
a very quick job. I can have my sundowner top off in about 90
seconds.
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Specketer" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Skybolt Cowling Fastener kit |
I have had the hinges on my aircraft cowl for the last 18 years. I
generally like them, both for the looks and the ease of removal. They
are however, a bugger to get fit right the first time and for the first
few hours of flight until everything gets settled in. I have not had
the hinges work themselves out. You lock them in with either a screw or
hook it around the front lip on the cowel. I have not had any eyeltes
break off. I have had the paint over the rivets used to secure the
hinges to the cowel pop off after 5 years of usage. I was able to solve
that by putting a thin (4 oz) cloth and fiberglass over the row of
rivets.
Some more imput for your consideration.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: RV10-List: Skybolt Cowling Fastener kit
When I was at Stein's a couple days ago, I noticed the camloc fasteners
on one of his planes. I'd been kind of skeptical about the hinge system
used to install the canopy, and Stein confirmed that yes, there are
issues.
* Hinge pins can work their way out and into the prop on the horizontal
pin.
* eyelits will eventually break off the lower hinge sections.
* It's inconvenient to get inside the cowl with your hands and pull out
those pins and it isn't that easy to get them back in.
The hinge pin system does look nice though, as there's not much exposed
and it's real smooth.
My Sundowner had/has camlocs on the cowl, and at least for
the top cowl cover, I can't imagine an easier way to do things. At
minimum, I intend to put camlocs or screws and nutplates on the top
cowl. Screws would be cheaper, but you'll replace screws and maybe some
nutplates over time, as it will be hard to keep from chewing up
screwheads.
I'm seriously considering the camloc kit from Skybolt.
http://www.skybolt.com/store/ProductDetail.asp?ProductID=502
I know Jesse said they put screws on top and hinge on bottom. Anyone
else do anything different so far? This skybolt kit, although more
money, would definitely make popping the top cover a very quick job. I
can have my sundowner top off in about 90 seconds.
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skybolt Cowling Fastener kit |
> * Hinge pins can work their way out and into the prop on the
> horizontal pin.
Which is why you build some sort of retainer in at the front.
> * eyelits will eventually break off the lower hinge sections.
Which is why you use screws & nutplates on the bottom.
> * It's inconvenient to get inside the cowl with your hands and
> pull out those pins and it isn't that easy to get them back in.
Are you speaking from experience? The only pin that is even remotely
difficult is the one going from the oil door to the right side, along the
top firewall flange. And what I've seen a lot of people do is just have the
top hinges join in the center, and have a little two-screw panel (flush, of
course), which is removed to expose the hinges. Everything can be done from
the exterior that way.
Note that if you use camloc fasteners, you might see "bulging" or
"scalloping" between fasteners, since the air has got to escape
somehow...and it's hot air no less. I've spoken to more than one builder
whose cowl took a permanent "form" to the heated scalloping, and they said
they'd go with hinges next time. Not saying that's the case for everybody,
just the ones I've spoken to.
Hinges are really cheap, trivial to build in, and don't take any longer to
insert/remove than camlocs. Camlocs are expensive, more difficult to build
in, but are really easy to deal with -- once installed. Your mileage may
vary.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | weight and balance |
I also modified the battery box to accept two 680s and an extra contactor. I just
used the Jeppesen Flitestar program to calculate some WBs. Using the finishing
kit number of approx. 1615 pounds an 106 cg, I input various scenarios. I
assumed an extra 6 pounds at 190" for the different battery arrangement. One thing
becomes apparent almost immediately. The RV10 has the same "problem" as the
Bonanza. The CG moves aft with fuel burn. It appears to be about .50-.75" going
from full tanks to minimum fuel of about 5 gal. So initial loading at takeoff
at the aft limit may mean landing aft of the limit and the resultant light
pitch forces. When landing at the aft limit keep the speed up until the flare.
The extra battery matters almost nothing; less than .25" in the CG. Using 4
170 pounders and 50 pounds of baggage and full fuel results in a loading of about
115" CG (116.24" limit) at takeoff. A four hour trip at 12 gal/hour results
in a landing CG of about 116". Put the ladies in the back; Lower fuel loads
do nothing to avert the move aft of the CG due to burn.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark & Kelly" <eyedocs1(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Toy - Chelton Screenshots |
Tim,
Well, now you've got my heart pumping! Question, on the first PFD picture
(RV200507010112.jpg), it looks like the magenta path line is rising in
space. Is this my imagination, or does the course line actually have the
proper height perspective above ground like the HITS presentation? The
colors on the moving map are much better. The others were too dark.
Thanks,
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: RV10-List: New Toy - Chelton Screenshots
>
> Well, I finally found the perfect Levitra/viagara substitute for
> pilots.....yesterday I went and picked up one of my 3 Chelton
> screens!!
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/20050702/index.html
>
> I got it powered up by a 2.75A 12V Radio Shack supply, and today I
> interfaced it with a keyboard. I was able to boot it up, and
> even update the operating software to version 5.0C from 5.0B.
> The Terrain now looks far better than before. For those who
> remember the blacks and browns of the terrain, they're now much
> more vivid and pretty. I took some awful crappy pictures while
> I was playing with it tonight so you could see some of the screens.
> It's even better than the training DVD and demo video shows.
> Also, after playing with it, I can see that my primary Nav/Com
> is going to be my SL-30, not the GNS-480.....let me tell you that
> this thing is SLICK! That GNS-480's looking mighty weak compared
> to this thing. Also (and please don't be offended or take it
> personally if you bought GRT stuff), I was able to hold in my
> hands, side by side, a Chelton and GRT screen. Let me say
> that there is really no comparison. The manufacturing quality
> is much better on the Chelton, and you can tell they take better
> care during assembly. The screen is much nicer looking, especially
> the lighted and labeled buttons. The Chelton weighs a little more,
> but you can tell you're getting some substantial power there.
> I think it uses a 650Mhz or so Celeron processor. When you power
> them on, the graphics are also no comparison. That Chelton blows
> the doors of the GRT. I'm extremely glad I went this way, and
> if I should have my snip job fail, I'll name my next kid Stein,
> in thanks for his taking the time to educate me as to the benefits
> of this beautiful system. Some of the stuff from Stark is a little
> delayed in coming in so far, but we're still planning to have my
> panel on display at OSH at booth 2030 in Hanger B (SteinAir's Booth).
> My engine will also be at Aerosport....look for the Gold and Chrome
> IO-540.
>
> I also took a minute to take some photos of something else I think
> I forgot to post a long time ago. If you remember back in about
> October there was a hand carved RV-10 model on Ebay that took
> what seemed like forever to sell. Turns out my dad bought it
> back then, and gave it to me for my birthday later last year.
> It was a great surprise. I'm going to try to talk to the guy
> who made it and see if he'll repaint it with my paint scheme, now
> that I have it picked out.
>
> Here are some photos of that:
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/misc/index.html
>
> Also, I added some additional photos of my fuel lines, and
> some of that junk in the fuselage section.
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050702/index.html
>
> Tim
>
> --
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skybolt Cowling Fastener kit |
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
>>* Hinge pins can work their way out and into the prop on the
>>horizontal pin.
>
>
> Which is why you build some sort of retainer in at the front.
>
>
>>* eyelits will eventually break off the lower hinge sections.
>
>
> Which is why you use screws & nutplates on the bottom.
>
>
>>* It's inconvenient to get inside the cowl with your hands and
>>pull out those pins and it isn't that easy to get them back in.
>
>
> Are you speaking from experience? The only pin that is even remotely
> difficult is the one going from the oil door to the right side, along the
> top firewall flange. And what I've seen a lot of people do is just have the
> top hinges join in the center, and have a little two-screw panel (flush, of
> course), which is removed to expose the hinges. Everything can be done from
> the exterior that way.
>
No, I'm not speaking from experience, but Stein did show me and allow
us to reach in thru the oil door where the pin on the firewall
gets pulled out and I can easily see how it wouldn't be as fun as
quick 1/4 turn camlocs. That's a great trick with having the
little removable panel. Would be a big improvement I think.
> Note that if you use camloc fasteners, you might see "bulging" or
> "scalloping" between fasteners, since the air has got to escape
> somehow...and it's hot air no less. I've spoken to more than one builder
> whose cowl took a permanent "form" to the heated scalloping, and they said
> they'd go with hinges next time. Not saying that's the case for everybody,
> just the ones I've spoken to.
>
I wonder if starting with a good fit would prevent that?
Or perhaps a thin coat of RTV inside the seam.
> Hinges are really cheap, trivial to build in, and don't take any longer to
> insert/remove than camlocs. Camlocs are expensive, more difficult to build
> in, but are really easy to deal with -- once installed. Your mileage may
> vary.
>
Yep, the camlocs would definitely be a much more expensive solution.
I think they're great from what I've seen, but it's all I've ever
used.
Tim
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Toy - Chelton Screenshots |
Hey Mark,
That magenta line is a pointer that is showing you which way to
turn when it has an ILS signal. Look to the right of it
and you'll see the VNAV glideslope indicator..you can tell
it's not on glideslope perfectly. After having it shoot
a couple of approaches, I think it actually is very readable....I
was worried the glideslope display wouldn't look so good, but
it's fantastic. Once you get on the approach, the HITS boxes
will also be visible, so you get that guidance too. You're
right about the moving map colors...they're fantastic.
Release 6.0 is coming out very soon and I hear that's got
many more improvements. Can't wait to see that. I think it's
only a couple weeks away possibly.
Tim
Mark & Kelly wrote:
>
> Tim,
>
> Well, now you've got my heart pumping! Question, on the first PFD
> picture (RV200507010112.jpg), it looks like the magenta path line is
> rising in space. Is this my imagination, or does the course line
> actually have the proper height perspective above ground like the HITS
> presentation? The colors on the moving map are much better. The
> others were too dark.
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
> To: "RV10"
> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2005 12:55 AM
> Subject: RV10-List: New Toy - Chelton Screenshots
>
>
>>
>> Well, I finally found the perfect Levitra/viagara substitute for
>> pilots.....yesterday I went and picked up one of my 3 Chelton
>> screens!!
>>
>> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/20050702/index.html
>>
>> I got it powered up by a 2.75A 12V Radio Shack supply, and today I
>> interfaced it with a keyboard. I was able to boot it up, and
>> even update the operating software to version 5.0C from 5.0B.
>> The Terrain now looks far better than before. For those who
>> remember the blacks and browns of the terrain, they're now much
>> more vivid and pretty. I took some awful crappy pictures while
>> I was playing with it tonight so you could see some of the screens.
>> It's even better than the training DVD and demo video shows.
>> Also, after playing with it, I can see that my primary Nav/Com
>> is going to be my SL-30, not the GNS-480.....let me tell you that
>> this thing is SLICK! That GNS-480's looking mighty weak compared
>> to this thing. Also (and please don't be offended or take it
>> personally if you bought GRT stuff), I was able to hold in my
>> hands, side by side, a Chelton and GRT screen. Let me say
>> that there is really no comparison. The manufacturing quality
>> is much better on the Chelton, and you can tell they take better
>> care during assembly. The screen is much nicer looking, especially
>> the lighted and labeled buttons. The Chelton weighs a little more,
>> but you can tell you're getting some substantial power there.
>> I think it uses a 650Mhz or so Celeron processor. When you power
>> them on, the graphics are also no comparison. That Chelton blows
>> the doors of the GRT. I'm extremely glad I went this way, and
>> if I should have my snip job fail, I'll name my next kid Stein,
>> in thanks for his taking the time to educate me as to the benefits
>> of this beautiful system. Some of the stuff from Stark is a little
>> delayed in coming in so far, but we're still planning to have my
>> panel on display at OSH at booth 2030 in Hanger B (SteinAir's Booth).
>> My engine will also be at Aerosport....look for the Gold and Chrome
>> IO-540.
>>
>> I also took a minute to take some photos of something else I think
>> I forgot to post a long time ago. If you remember back in about
>> October there was a hand carved RV-10 model on Ebay that took
>> what seemed like forever to sell. Turns out my dad bought it
>> back then, and gave it to me for my birthday later last year.
>> It was a great surprise. I'm going to try to talk to the guy
>> who made it and see if he'll repaint it with my paint scheme, now
>> that I have it picked out.
>>
>> Here are some photos of that:
>> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/misc/index.html
>>
>> Also, I added some additional photos of my fuel lines, and
>> some of that junk in the fuselage section.
>> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050702/index.html
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> --
>>
>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
>> Current project: Fuselage
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com ] : New Email List Photo Share |
Available!
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
Lists: RV-List,RV3-List,RV4-List,RV6-List,RV7-List,RV8-List,RV9-List,RV10-List
Subject: Brake Line Failure
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/eanderson@carolina.rr.com.07.02.2005/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Cooper <sportflyer(at)emcity.net> |
| Subject: | Looking for Engine |
looking for used Rotax 912/912S...cash buyer.
sportflyer(at)emcity.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
<42C6DC3C.1000608(at)MyRV10.com>
| Subject: | Re: Skybolt Cowling Fastener kit |
> > Note that if you use camloc fasteners, you might see "bulging" or
> > "scalloping" between fasteners, since the air has got to escape
> > somehow...and it's hot air no less. I've spoken to more than one
builder
> > whose cowl took a permanent "form" to the heated scalloping, and they
said
> > they'd go with hinges next time. Not saying that's the case for
everybody,
> > just the ones I've spoken to.
>
> I wonder if starting with a good fit would prevent that?
> Or perhaps a thin coat of RTV inside the seam.
I don't see how RTV would counteract the cowl flange bulging. The point is
that with heat, the material expands. If you have a camloc every 4" or
whatever, when you add hot, pressurized air to the mix, the material will
bulge between fasteners. Since you're talking about heating fiberglass, the
cowl may "take a set" in that shape.
I suppose a potential "solution" would be to install stiffeners on the cowl
flange between camlocs, in order to keep it from bulging in between. You'd
want to do that before you fly, before the material takes a set in the
scalloped form.
Or you could just use hinges like Van's does on their planes. ;-)
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Wanted: 3/32 clecos |
I'm just starting a RV-10 kit and find I need additional silver clecos. If
anyone has 1 or 2 hundred for sale, I'm interested.
Albert Gardner
RV-9A N872RV
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
spamd4.ruraltel.net
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| From: | "Bill and Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SB wing kit and impending builder interuptus |
Deems, I ordered my SB wing kit with the fuel senders (no lights yet) the
last day of march to beat the price increase. I am only starting on the
elevators now so It'll be quite a while before I need the wing. I would be
willing to trade shipment dates with you if you will cover the extra cost of
the price increase. If you are interested contact me privately at
william(at)gbta.net and we'll see if we can work something out.
BTW: I have not talked to Vans lately about the delivery date but I did
receive a letter from them about 1 1/2 months ago stating that the estimated
delivery date was July 10-12.
Let me know if you are interested
Bill Britton
Ready to start Elevators!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV10-List: SB wing kit and impending builder interuptus
>
> I recently saw a post that mentioned someone had recently ordered their
> wings and was given a ship date of early Aug (8?) which is much sooner
> than the 14-15 weeks posted on their web site. I just got off the phone
> with Van's and was told that 14-15 weeks IS the current lead time for
> wing kits!. I'm making progress at a rate that's going to have me ready
> for my next kit in 6-7 weeks. I spoke with builder support about
> ordering the fuse kit which only has an 8 week lead time, but they
> informed me that the centersection spar is required for the fuse kit!
> and while you could make some progress without it, you'd obviously be
> limited at some point. Apparently, it is the wing spars that are
> causing the 14-15 week lead times.
>
> So:
> Anybody out there with a SB wing kit delivery position that wants to
> delay delivery that would be willing to trade 'positions'? or alternately:
>
> How much work (hours) can you complete on the SB Fuse without having the
> spar available? I'm averaging 35-40 hours per week, wondering if there's
> enough work to keep busy until the spars/wings are available?
>
> Deems Davis
>
> #406
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Skybolt Cowling Fastener kit |
<000f01c57f1e$5b2e13e0$6400a8c0@inspinc.ad> <42C6DC3C.1000608(at)MyRV10.com>
I have installed the skybolt camlocs on my cowl and I see what Dan is
talking about. Most of the installation is very tight, but I do have a few
areas between fasteners that have a slight buldge. I was very careful to
have the fit as tight as possible before drilling the final hole size for
the stud and receptacle. The hinge pins have a constant grip around the
perimeter of the cowl while there is really nothing between the fasteners.
At this point I am committed to the camlocs. It is not as clean a look, but
I have enjoyed the easy operation already. I hope I don't encounter the
other problems Dan mentioned. Just thought I'd throw in my two cents. Mark
(40016)
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert St.Denis" <rob(at)iahu.ca> |
<42C6DC3C.1000608(at)MyRV10.com> <002501c57f90$933cca20$f5006e47@Office>
Am I the only one in the group contemplating switching jobs to a higher
paying one you are going to hate just to pay off the project faster ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
Quick question...
When bonding the door halves, do you use cab-o-sil in all areas
including where you use the glass cloth in the cranium and
other cavities, or is it just epoxy and cloth in those areas?
Door bonding today. The paint looks as if it came out pretty good
on the canopy. Man that SmoothPrime is nice stuff. It seems
that basically you roll it on, and then sand most of it off,
since it doesn't roll smoothly, but it acts as a very hard,
thin, body filler along with pinhole filler....and it's
got a tenacious grip.
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net> |
Tim,
Looks like Aircraft Spruce is pretty proud of SmoothPrime too. How much
do you need for the project? I'd sure rather get a quart than a gallon+.
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: RV10-List: Door bonding
Quick question...
When bonding the door halves, do you use cab-o-sil in all areas
including where you use the glass cloth in the cranium and
other cavities, or is it just epoxy and cloth in those areas?
Door bonding today. The paint looks as if it came out pretty good
on the canopy. Man that SmoothPrime is nice stuff. It seems
that basically you roll it on, and then sand most of it off,
since it doesn't roll smoothly, but it acts as a very hard,
thin, body filler along with pinhole filler....and it's
got a tenacious grip.
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Door bonding |
I've only done the very small amount inside the canopy so far.
I think I've heard reference to 3 quarts doing a whole
airplane, but it sure doesn't seem like if you roll it on
that this stuff goes too far. I can see easily using 1 QT for
the project as a whole, possibly 2. Depends on how much
other filler you use too I'm sure.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Marcus Cooper wrote:
>
> Tim,
> Looks like Aircraft Spruce is pretty proud of SmoothPrime too. How much
> do you need for the project? I'd sure rather get a quart than a gallon+.
>
> Marcus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 9:05 AM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: Door bonding
>
>
> Quick question...
>
> When bonding the door halves, do you use cab-o-sil in all areas
> including where you use the glass cloth in the cranium and
> other cavities, or is it just epoxy and cloth in those areas?
>
> Door bonding today. The paint looks as if it came out pretty good
> on the canopy. Man that SmoothPrime is nice stuff. It seems
> that basically you roll it on, and then sand most of it off,
> since it doesn't roll smoothly, but it acts as a very hard,
> thin, body filler along with pinhole filler....and it's
> got a tenacious grip.
>
> Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Chelton in AOPA 2005 Commander Sweepstakes plane |
I ran across an interesting article this weekend regarding
the current month's status of the AOPA sweepstakes plane.
They're using a dual Chelton system in that plane, and had
great things to say.
In particular though, this caught my attention:
"Chelton recently achieved two milestones with their
FlightLogic system. It released software version 5.0B
and announced that the new software had passed RTCA DO-178B
Level A software design compliance standards. The latter,
in particular, is a big feather in Chelton's cap--Level A
compliance is the same standard that FAA requires for
FAR 25 aircraft, those Boeing and Airbus widebodies that
fly up where there's not much to see.
The Chelton GPS also is WAAS (Wide Aera Augmentation System)
compliant, meaning it is approved to take advantage of both
vertical and horizontal guidance during GPS approaches.
The terrain awareness warning system (TAWS) installed in the
AOPA commander is the "C" version: this version provides
plenty of terrain warning for the low-and-slow capabilities
of the Commander. The Chelton FlightLogic TAWS system can
be configured to provide TAWS-B- and TAWS-A-level capabilities
for turbine and passenger-for-hire aircraft. FOr a look at
the future of general vaiation navigation and HITS
technology, sign up on the website for a free DVD from
Chelton
(http://www.cheltonflightsystems.com/Prod_cert_request_info.html)
"
There was more good stuff before this section, but reading the
notes about the software certification was nice...but, it's
hard for me not to notice the WAAS comment. I'm now wondering
if it might not be possible that I didn't need that GNS480
after-all to be WAAS legal...or perhaps that would happen
soon. My current software release is 5.0C, and 6.0 is coming
out soon.
A couple people asked me over the last couple of days about
my GNS480 in the stack. I actually had a funny comment back
in that now that I have a Chelton in-hand, I don't know
if I'd have put the 480 in there at all. The integration
will be fantastic with the SL30, and the Chelton will be
a great box to use. The GNS480 will definitely be
relegated to the COM2/NAV2 position for me, because I can
tell right now that I'm going to use my Chelton to do
many/most of my frequency changes...except possibly during
enroute handoffs. It is kind of nice having a 2nd GPS
on board, but I'm now wondering if possibly a panel-mount
or handheld Garmin 296 wouldn't have given me plenty of
emergency function. If the GNS480 had as nice a tuner
integration as the SL30, it would be great, but without
that, I am just thinking that I'll probably be so hands-off
the 480 that I will never keep proficient in it's operation.
The Chelton is just so darn integrated and seemingly easy
to use.
Just thought I'd pass on that article clip and some
post-4th comments.
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ngautier(at)earthlink.net |
| Subject: | Lower aft rivets on the RV-10 rudder |
RV10ers,
I've had my 10 tail kit for a few months now and I've been building along
and reading the RV lists.
The vertical stab is done. The rudder is almost done and I've made some progress
on the horizontal
stab. I had not yet posted anything to the list and introduced myself, but I've
run into a
problem I could use some help with so now's the time.
All you people who have finished RV-10 rudders will recall the very aft rivets
that hold the
rudder skins to the lower rib, the rib with the control horn attached. This is
the place where
you don't have enough room to set a solid rivet in (I think) the left skin because
of interference
with the rivet in the right skin;so you use a blind flush rivet on the left.
Well, how did you guys set the solid rivet in the right skin? There's no way
I'm going to get
even my thinnest squeezer yoke between the rivet and the opposite side of the rib.
I've thought
about several schemes to deal with this but a lot of you must have already solved
the problem.
What's the secret? (I did try searching the RV-10 archive but I came up dry.)
Thanks in advance for any help.
Plowing ahead with the H-stab,
Nick Gautier
Altadena, Californis
RV-10 #40363
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lower aft rivets on the RV-10 rudder |
I used a blind pop rivet on both sides. Looks good.
-Jim 40384
ngautier(at)earthlink.net wrote:
>
>RV10ers,
>
> I've had my 10 tail kit for a few months now and I've been building along
and reading the RV lists.
>The vertical stab is done. The rudder is almost done and I've made some progress
on the horizontal
>stab. I had not yet posted anything to the list and introduced myself, but I've
run into a
>problem I could use some help with so now's the time.
>
> All you people who have finished RV-10 rudders will recall the very aft rivets
that hold the
>rudder skins to the lower rib, the rib with the control horn attached. This is
the place where
>you don't have enough room to set a solid rivet in (I think) the left skin because
of interference
>with the rivet in the right skin;so you use a blind flush rivet on the left.
>
> Well, how did you guys set the solid rivet in the right skin? There's no
way I'm going to get
>even my thinnest squeezer yoke between the rivet and the opposite side of the
rib. I've thought
>about several schemes to deal with this but a lot of you must have already solved
the problem.
>What's the secret? (I did try searching the RV-10 archive but I came up dry.)
>
> Thanks in advance for any help.
>
>Plowing ahead with the H-stab,
>Nick Gautier
>Altadena, Californis
>RV-10 #40363
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lower aft rivets on the RV-10 rudder |
Hi Nick,
It just so happens I'm in Altadena and have made a bucking bar that
will get into that spot. Come by and borrow it. You can reach me at
626-622-7716.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
On Jul 5, 2005, at 1:35 PM, ngautier(at)earthlink.net wrote:
>
> RV10ers,
>
> I've had my 10 tail kit for a few months now and I've been
> building along and reading the RV lists.
> The vertical stab is done. The rudder is almost done and I've made
> some progress on the horizontal
> stab. I had not yet posted anything to the list and introduced
> myself, but I've run into a
> problem I could use some help with so now's the time.
>
> All you people who have finished RV-10 rudders will recall the
> very aft rivets that hold the
> rudder skins to the lower rib, the rib with the control horn
> attached. This is the place where
> you don't have enough room to set a solid rivet in (I think) the
> left skin because of interference
> with the rivet in the right skin;so you use a blind flush rivet on
> the left.
>
> Well, how did you guys set the solid rivet in the right skin?
> There's no way I'm going to get
> even my thinnest squeezer yoke between the rivet and the opposite
> side of the rib. I've thought
> about several schemes to deal with this but a lot of you must have
> already solved the problem.
> What's the secret? (I did try searching the RV-10 archive but I
> came up dry.)
>
> Thanks in advance for any help.
>
> Plowing ahead with the H-stab,
> Nick Gautier
> Altadena, Californis
> RV-10 #40363
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lower aft rivets on the RV-10 rudder |
<42CAF3FD.4010500(at)arrl.net>
Same here. MK-319-BS I believe.
James Hein wrote:
>
> I used a blind pop rivet on both sides. Looks good.
>
> -Jim 40384
>
> ngautier(at)earthlink.net wrote:
>
>>
>> RV10ers,
>>
>> I've had my 10 tail kit for a few months now and I've been
>> building along and reading the RV lists. The vertical stab is done.
>> The rudder is almost done and I've made some progress on the
>> horizontal stab. I had not yet posted anything to the list and
>> introduced myself, but I've run into a problem I could use some help
>> with so now's the time.
>>
>> All you people who have finished RV-10 rudders will recall the
>> very aft rivets that hold the rudder skins to the lower rib, the rib
>> with the control horn attached. This is the place where you don't
>> have enough room to set a solid rivet in (I think) the left skin
>> because of interference with the rivet in the right skin;so you use a
>> blind flush rivet on the left.
>>
>> Well, how did you guys set the solid rivet in the right skin?
>> There's no way I'm going to get even my thinnest squeezer yoke
>> between the rivet and the opposite side of the rib. I've thought
>> about several schemes to deal with this but a lot of you must have
>> already solved the problem. What's the secret? (I did try searching
>> the RV-10 archive but I came up dry.)
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any help.
>>
>> Plowing ahead with the H-stab,
>> Nick Gautier
>> Altadena, Californis
>> RV-10 #40363
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Combs" <jimc(at)mail.infra-read.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lower aft rivets on the RV-10 rudder |
YEP, POOP rivet it and continue on
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net>
Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 14:18:12 -0700
Same here. MK-319-BS I believe.
James Hein wrote:
>
> I used a blind pop rivet on both sides. Looks good.
>
> -Jim 40384
>
> ngautier(at)earthlink.net wrote:
>
>>
>> RV10ers,
>>
>> I've had my 10 tail kit for a few months now and I've been
>> building along and reading the RV lists. The vertical stab is done.
>> The rudder is almost done and I've made some progress on the
>> horizontal stab. I had not yet posted anything to the list and
>> introduced myself, but I've run into a problem I could use some help
>> with so now's the time.
>>
>> All you people who have finished RV-10 rudders will recall the
>> very aft rivets that hold the rudder skins to the lower rib, the rib
>> with the control horn attached. This is the place where you don't
>> have enough room to set a solid rivet in (I think) the left skin
>> because of interference with the rivet in the right skin;so you use a
>> blind flush rivet on the left.
>>
>> Well, how did you guys set the solid rivet in the right skin?
>> There's no way I'm going to get even my thinnest squeezer yoke
>> between the rivet and the opposite side of the rib. I've thought
>> about several schemes to deal with this but a lot of you must have
>> already solved the problem. What's the secret? (I did try searching
>> the RV-10 archive but I came up dry.)
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any help.
>>
>> Plowing ahead with the H-stab,
>> Nick Gautier
>> Altadena, Californis
>> RV-10 #40363
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com> |
| Subject: | Lower aft rivets on the RV-10 rudder |
I back rivetted it using a cold chisel resting on a pivot.
Ron
#187
finishing wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Combs
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Lower aft rivets on the RV-10 rudder
YEP, POOP rivet it and continue on
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net>
Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 14:18:12 -0700
Same here. MK-319-BS I believe.
James Hein wrote:
>
> I used a blind pop rivet on both sides. Looks good.
>
> -Jim 40384
>
> ngautier(at)earthlink.net wrote:
>
>>
>> RV10ers,
>>
>> I've had my 10 tail kit for a few months now and I've been
>> building along and reading the RV lists. The vertical stab is done.
>> The rudder is almost done and I've made some progress on the
>> horizontal stab. I had not yet posted anything to the list and
>> introduced myself, but I've run into a problem I could use some help
>> with so now's the time.
>>
>> All you people who have finished RV-10 rudders will recall the
>> very aft rivets that hold the rudder skins to the lower rib, the rib
>> with the control horn attached. This is the place where you don't
>> have enough room to set a solid rivet in (I think) the left skin
>> because of interference with the rivet in the right skin;so you use a
>> blind flush rivet on the left.
>>
>> Well, how did you guys set the solid rivet in the right skin?
>> There's no way I'm going to get even my thinnest squeezer yoke
>> between the rivet and the opposite side of the rib. I've thought
>> about several schemes to deal with this but a lot of you must have
>> already solved the problem. What's the secret? (I did try searching
>> the RV-10 archive but I came up dry.)
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any help.
>>
>> Plowing ahead with the H-stab,
>> Nick Gautier
>> Altadena, Californis
>> RV-10 #40363
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Combs" <jimc(at)mail.infra-read.com> |
| Subject: | Lower aft rivets on the RV-10 rudder |
I have also heard of using a vise grip type of pliers to set the small rivets in
this instance as well. You would have to grind the face of the pliers to remove
the teeth.
I too realized the squeezer would not fit and was more afraid of damaging the thin
skins with the rivet gun approach. So I went the pulled rivet (MK-319-BS)
approach.
Jim Combs
N312F Reserved - Fuselage
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 09:53:08 +0930
I back rivetted it using a cold chisel resting on a pivot.
Ron
#187
finishing wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Combs
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Lower aft rivets on the RV-10 rudder
YEP, POOP rivet it and continue on
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net>
Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 14:18:12 -0700
Same here. MK-319-BS I believe.
James Hein wrote:
>
> I used a blind pop rivet on both sides. Looks good.
>
> -Jim 40384
>
> ngautier(at)earthlink.net wrote:
>
>>
>> RV10ers,
>>
>> I've had my 10 tail kit for a few months now and I've been
>> building along and reading the RV lists. The vertical stab is done.
>> The rudder is almost done and I've made some progress on the
>> horizontal stab. I had not yet posted anything to the list and
>> introduced myself, but I've run into a problem I could use some help
>> with so now's the time.
>>
>> All you people who have finished RV-10 rudders will recall the
>> very aft rivets that hold the rudder skins to the lower rib, the rib
>> with the control horn attached. This is the place where you don't
>> have enough room to set a solid rivet in (I think) the left skin
>> because of interference with the rivet in the right skin;so you use a
>> blind flush rivet on the left.
>>
>> Well, how did you guys set the solid rivet in the right skin?
>> There's no way I'm going to get even my thinnest squeezer yoke
>> between the rivet and the opposite side of the rib. I've thought
>> about several schemes to deal with this but a lot of you must have
>> already solved the problem. What's the secret? (I did try searching
>> the RV-10 archive but I came up dry.)
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any help.
>>
>> Plowing ahead with the H-stab,
>> Nick Gautier
>> Altadena, Californis
>> RV-10 #40363
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lower aft rivets on the RV-10 rudder |
Ditto....
Rick S.
40185
Waiting on the fuse
----- Original Message -----
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Lower aft rivets on the RV-10 rudder
>
> I back rivetted it using a cold chisel resting on a pivot.
>
> Ron
> #187
> finishing wings
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Combs
> Sent: Wednesday, 6 July 2005 8:32 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Lower aft rivets on the RV-10 rudder
>
>
> YEP, POOP rivet it and continue on
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> From: Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net>
> Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 14:18:12 -0700
>
>
> Same here. MK-319-BS I believe.
>
> James Hein wrote:
>>
>> I used a blind pop rivet on both sides. Looks good.
>>
>> -Jim 40384
>>
>> ngautier(at)earthlink.net wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> RV10ers,
>>>
>>> I've had my 10 tail kit for a few months now and I've been
>>> building along and reading the RV lists. The vertical stab is done.
>>> The rudder is almost done and I've made some progress on the
>>> horizontal stab. I had not yet posted anything to the list and
>>> introduced myself, but I've run into a problem I could use some help
>>> with so now's the time.
>>>
>>> All you people who have finished RV-10 rudders will recall the
>>> very aft rivets that hold the rudder skins to the lower rib, the rib
>>> with the control horn attached. This is the place where you don't
>>> have enough room to set a solid rivet in (I think) the left skin
>>> because of interference with the rivet in the right skin;so you use a
>>> blind flush rivet on the left.
>>>
>>> Well, how did you guys set the solid rivet in the right skin?
>>> There's no way I'm going to get even my thinnest squeezer yoke
>>> between the rivet and the opposite side of the rib. I've thought
>>> about several schemes to deal with this but a lot of you must have
>>> already solved the problem. What's the secret? (I did try searching
>>> the RV-10 archive but I came up dry.)
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for any help.
>>>
>>> Plowing ahead with the H-stab,
>>> Nick Gautier
>>> Altadena, Californis
>>> RV-10 #40363
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com> |
If I remember right Tim, I just used the epoxy in the areas where the
thick fiberglass clothe is and than added the cab-o-sil in the areas
where the two halves bond together.
Scott Schmidt
Cell: 801-319-3094
sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 9:05 AM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: Door bonding
>
>
> Quick question...
>
> When bonding the door halves, do you use cab-o-sil in all areas
> including where you use the glass cloth in the cranium and
> other cavities, or is it just epoxy and cloth in those areas?
>
> Door bonding today. The paint looks as if it came out pretty good
> on the canopy. Man that SmoothPrime is nice stuff. It seems
> that basically you roll it on, and then sand most of it off,
> since it doesn't roll smoothly, but it acts as a very hard,
> thin, body filler along with pinhole filler....and it's
> got a tenacious grip.
>
> Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Door bonding |
Thanks Scott, that sounds like a plan. I skipped the bonding
yesterday after I saw the note that epoxy with 30 minute
pot life should be used. I had fast hardner (205), so today
I'm skipping out early to go get some slow (206) for doing
that step. Tonight should be bonding night.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
Scott Schmidt wrote:
>
> If I remember right Tim, I just used the epoxy in the areas where the
> thick fiberglass clothe is and than added the cab-o-sil in the areas
> where the two halves bond together.
>
> Scott Schmidt
> Cell: 801-319-3094
> sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>>Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 9:05 AM
>>To: RV10
>>Subject: RV10-List: Door bonding
>>
>>
>>Quick question...
>>
>>When bonding the door halves, do you use cab-o-sil in all areas
>>including where you use the glass cloth in the cranium and
>>other cavities, or is it just epoxy and cloth in those areas?
>>
>>Door bonding today. The paint looks as if it came out pretty good
>>on the canopy. Man that SmoothPrime is nice stuff. It seems
>>that basically you roll it on, and then sand most of it off,
>>since it doesn't roll smoothly, but it acts as a very hard,
>>thin, body filler along with pinhole filler....and it's
>>got a tenacious grip.
>>
>>Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark" <2eyedocs(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Garmin 396 - Interesting Link |
http://shop.jaair.com/?stepproductinfo&productNum010-00425-00
Looks like it might be a very capable portable!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jskorch(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 396 - Interesting Link |
I`m sure it is a nice gps, But for $2495 IT BETTER BE!!!!
:)
John Skorczewski
________________________________________________________________________________
;
| From: | "Jack Sparling" <jhs_61(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Elevator Trim Tabs |
Greetings to everyone:
I have been struggling with the electric trim cable adjustments and cannot
seem to get them to come out right. If I am reading this correctly, the
manual indicates that the trim motor should be ran to the full nose up
position and the cables should be adjusted to achieve a 35 degree angle
measuring from the top of the trim tab to the top of the elevator. When
adjusted in this manner, the left trim tab will not come to a full neutral
position. Even when the motor is ran to the full nose down position, the
trailing edge of the trim tab is still 3/8ths of an inch lower than the
trailing edge of the elevator. Has anyone experienced a problem like this?
I know that I have been a quiet participant on this list, however, I have
learned a great deal from all of you and appreciate your views and
enthusiasm. We are on a wonderful journey, one that few people have an
opportunity to explore. I have learned how exceptional we all can be when
we have opportunity to create and develop the dream. I have a great deal of
respect for what we have all decided to do together. We represent 1/1000 of
the population, a pretty unique crowd. While I don't know you personally, I
admire your choices and interest.
Hope to see you all at OSH.
Jack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Tank Nose rivets |
Hi all,
Just finishing off the tanks and was doing a final inspection of the rivets
before installing the baffle.
I noticed that the shop heads in the nose of the skin seemed to be much
higher than the rest (ie the rivets had not been fully set). This is hard
to confirm during rivetting with proseal everywhere. Once the proseal had
set, the rivets were pretty solid but were still obviously dodgy. I took to
them with the gun and bar again, and despite the right banging noises, the
rivets would still not set properly. Closer investigation found that the
bucking bar was contacting the raised flutes on the ribs - not the rivet
tail. A change in bucking bar set the rivets properly and an extra dab of
proseal seems to have done the job.
I found that I needed to flute the forward part of the ribs quite a bit to
have them fit properly, so the probability of whacking the flute was quite
high. I guess I'm just a dummy for not tweaking earlier, and not noticing
that the rivets were not set properly when I initially bucked them. Just
thought I would pass on a lesson learned for those about to get there.
cheers,
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tabs |
There was a thread a while back regarding this. If memory serves me
correctly, one side does not travel as far as the other "by design"?
-Sean #40303 flaps
Rick wrote:
> Jack,
>
> I don't know to be honest, When I set mine up a year ago I don't
> recall any problems. It may be possible that the potentiometer inside
> the servo may be outta alignment. I have seen that happen with other
> servos where you only get half the throw in one drection and full
> throw in the other, make sure the tirangle horn isn't binding as well,
> I recall that as a pretty close fit in the mechanisim. Is it a matter
> of not having enough travel? Are the cables set to the correct
> lengths? I remember being very attentive to details putting that
> together. Short of taking everything apart and redoing it that's all I
> can offer.
>
> Rick S.
> 40185
> Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
;
| From: | Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 396 - Interesting Link |
Thanks for the link. I think it will offer a lower
cost route for a very capable VFR panel.
Looks like weather, XM radio audio, SL30 integration
and TIS with the right transponder. That's alot of
additional capability over a 296 for an additional 1k.
Garmin 396 + SL30 would be ~ 6000. This is close to
the price of a GNS-430 without the GPS IFR capability.
I've been using anywhere map for years but I think
this Garmin product is far superior. I think Anywhere
map is tough to use in turb and the display contrast
and color choices leave alot to be desired. Mountain
Scope has a better display but more limited features
and a higher price.
Eric
--- Mark <2eyedocs(at)comcast.net> wrote:
>
http://shop.jaair.com/?step=productinfo&productNum=010-00425-00
>
> Looks like it might be a very capable portable!
>
> Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Aileron deflection |
Hi All,
I know I've seen this but I think it was back on Yahoo because I could not find
it in this list. When the aileron deflects down, what is the maximum degree of
travel? And those who have past this most likely know why I'm asking I'm sure.
The alieron pushrod will hit the hinge bracket at some point close to full
down throw. Without both wings control systems tied into each other (I assume
the stop for the opposite alieron in the "up" position works as the stop for
the opposite in down) there is nothing limiting the throw short of the pushrod
hitting the bracket. I just want to check the amount of throw to make sure hitting
the bracket is not an issue before I close up the bottom skins.
Rick S.
40185
Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
;
| From: | Darton Steve <sfdarton(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tabs |
Jack,
I had the same issues when working on my trim tabs. I
just happened to be traveling to Portland at that time
so I stopped in at Van's to see how N410RV's tabs
operated for my self. This is what I learned. The
right tab is the one to set the up/down deflection
parameters. Set the left tab so it is at neutral when
the right tab is neutral. The left tab will
approximately follow the right through the down
travel. Don't worry about full travel for the left
tab. Essentially what I was told at Van's is that all
the other RV's have only one tab. The RV-10 is nose
heavy so the trim system was designed to give more
nose up only. Both tabs provide nose up, right tab
provides nose up and down.
Steve wings 40212
--- Jack Sparling wrote:
> Greetings to everyone:
>
>
>
> I have been struggling with the electric trim cable
> adjustments and cannot
> seem to get them to come out right. If I am reading
> this correctly, the
> manual indicates that the trim motor should be ran
> to the full nose up
> position and the cables should be adjusted to
> achieve a 35 degree angle
> measuring from the top of the trim tab to the top of
> the elevator. When
> adjusted in this manner, the left trim tab will not
> come to a full neutral
> position. Even when the motor is ran to the full
> nose down position, the
> trailing edge of the trim tab is still 3/8ths of an
> inch lower than the
> trailing edge of the elevator. Has anyone
> experienced a problem like this?
>
>
>
> I know that I have been a quiet participant on this
> list, however, I have
> learned a great deal from all of you and appreciate
> your views and
> enthusiasm. We are on a wonderful journey, one that
> few people have an
> opportunity to explore. I have learned how
> exceptional we all can be when
> we have opportunity to create and develop the dream.
> I have a great deal of
> respect for what we have all decided to do together.
> We represent 1/1000 of
> the population, a pretty unique crowd. While I
> don't know you personally, I
> admire your choices and interest.
>
>
>
> Hope to see you all at OSH.
>
>
>
> Jack
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FW: [RV10] Aileron Control Clearances |
| From: | "John Erickson" <Droopy(at)ericksonjc.com> |
0.01 URI_REDIRECTOR Message has HTTP redirector URI
Rick,
I think this was the thread from Yahoo you were asking about...
John
#40208 Wings
________________________________
From: Randy DeBauw [mailto:randy(at)abros.com]
Subject: RE: [RV10] Aileron Control Clearances
Doug, the flap in the full up position is suppose to be nag. 3 deg.. Is
that part of the problem or is it more of the aileron rod lengths.
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Peterson [mailto:rvator(at)cox.net]
Subject: RE: [RV10] Aileron Control Clearances
Randy is correct, due to design where one aileron rises more then it
falls
with movement, it does allow the tube to clear the hinge brace, but you
really don't know this until both wings are installed and all controls
are
installed. I tested mine this weekend and the tube clears fine.
But I do have an alignment problem with the wing tip TE to aileron TE to
flap TE to fuselage that im going to scratch my head on for awhile.
Doug
_____
From: Randy DeBauw [mailto:randy(at)abros.com]
Subject: RE: [RV10] Aileron Control Clearances
Bob I ran into the same thing but after enlarging the hole some I
stopped. I
think what will happen will be that when the ailerons are connected
together
the opposite side will hit the stop before the rod will hit. At least
that
is what I am thinking. I won't know until both wings are installed and
connected. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Condrey [mailto:bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com]
Subject: [RV10] Aileron Control Clearances
When I was replacing washers in the aileron mount brackets (page 11
in last RVator) I noticed a potential clearance issue. When the
ailerons are deflected down, the control tube comes extremely close
to the some of the rivet heads on the inboard aileron bracket and the
outboard edge of the spar hole. I talked to Van's yesterday AM and
they suggested that I enlarge the hole slightly.
Even if I enlarge the hole a bit there's not much clearance between
the rivet heads and the control tube. Anybody else run into this?
How much clearance do others have? Finally, anybody know what the
max downward deflection limit will be for the ailerons?
Bob #40105
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "brian bollaert" <bbollaert(at)comcast.net> |
? to the group :
Is anyone buying the mt prop ? has anyone installed it yet ?
How does it work perform ?, i am now deciding to put the money down on a prop ,
finish & engine forward kit coming in sept 05 also Aerosport io 540 in sept .Also
not shure about the group buy that i have seen mail on , i know that vans
sells therm also however you have to pick them up at a assembly center & would
probably be extra $ not shure how much.
Brian Bollaert
40200
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Door Bonding Photos/Info and More |
I just updated my site and added the latest work....
Door Trimming, Cabin Top interior prep, Headliner, Cabin top interior
paint, Autopilot Pitch Servo, and Door Bonding.
I took the time to write up a bit of good info on a couple
of points, so it might be worth reading if you're getting
near that stage. I got REAL lucky last night on my first
door, and mixed up just the right amount of epoxy almost to the
drop. On the 2nd door, I added one more pump just to be safe.
Total is about 20 pumps per door. Total quantity is about 80-85%
of a full can of 105A/206A West System Epoxy, plus maybe about
1/2 to 2/3 of a can of colloidal Silica #406. I tried to detail
a bunch of stuff on this page so that it's there for reference
for others. Also, I'm glad I went with 206A hardner. 205A might
have worked, but this allowed a leisurly but quick job.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/fuselage/20050706/index.html
Enjoy! (and as always, if you have more to add, just send it on over)
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> |
My buddy just put on a MT 3 blade prop on his Harmon Rocket (he had a 2
blade Hartzell). He said it now runs as smooth as an electric motor!
He said it was very noticeably smoother and quieter. It is also about
45lbs lighter as I understand which is nice as the -10 is nose heavy (or
should I say flies better with weight in the back). We are building 2
RV-10's in my hanger and they will both have the MT props.....
-Mike Kraus
RV-4 - Flying
RV-10 - Wings and fuse....
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of brian
bollaert
Subject: RV10-List: mt prop
? to the group :
Is anyone buying the mt prop ? has anyone installed it yet ?
How does it work perform ?, i am now deciding to put the money down on a
prop , finish & engine forward kit coming in sept 05 also Aerosport io
540 in sept .Also not shure about the group buy that i have seen mail on
a assembly center & would probably be extra $ not shure how much.
Brian Bollaert
40200
________________________________________________________________________________
;
| From: | "Jack Sparling" <jhs_61(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Elevator Trim Tabs |
Thanks for the help, I appreciate the responses.
All the best,
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darton Steve
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator Trim Tabs
Jack,
I had the same issues when working on my trim tabs. I
just happened to be traveling to Portland at that time
so I stopped in at Van's to see how N410RV's tabs
operated for my self. This is what I learned. The
right tab is the one to set the up/down deflection
parameters. Set the left tab so it is at neutral when
the right tab is neutral. The left tab will
approximately follow the right through the down
travel. Don't worry about full travel for the left
tab. Essentially what I was told at Van's is that all
the other RV's have only one tab. The RV-10 is nose
heavy so the trim system was designed to give more
nose up only. Both tabs provide nose up, right tab
provides nose up and down.
Steve wings 40212
--- Jack Sparling wrote:
> Greetings to everyone:
>
>
>
> I have been struggling with the electric trim cable
> adjustments and cannot
> seem to get them to come out right. If I am reading
> this correctly, the
> manual indicates that the trim motor should be ran
> to the full nose up
> position and the cables should be adjusted to
> achieve a 35 degree angle
> measuring from the top of the trim tab to the top of
> the elevator. When
> adjusted in this manner, the left trim tab will not
> come to a full neutral
> position. Even when the motor is ran to the full
> nose down position, the
> trailing edge of the trim tab is still 3/8ths of an
> inch lower than the
> trailing edge of the elevator. Has anyone
> experienced a problem like this?
>
>
>
> I know that I have been a quiet participant on this
> list, however, I have
> learned a great deal from all of you and appreciate
> your views and
> enthusiasm. We are on a wonderful journey, one that
> few people have an
> opportunity to explore. I have learned how
> exceptional we all can be when
> we have opportunity to create and develop the dream.
> I have a great deal of
> respect for what we have all decided to do together.
> We represent 1/1000 of
> the population, a pretty unique crowd. While I
> don't know you personally, I
> admire your choices and interest.
>
>
>
> Hope to see you all at OSH.
>
>
>
> Jack
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank leak test |
All,
I've started the leak check on my left fuel tank using Van's kit and a
water manometer. I have a very slow drop in the water level of the
manometer and have sprayed the tank with soapy water but can't find the
leak. The fuel cap is taped over, I did find a few bubbles from that at
first but the leak persists. Any hints? Thought about imersing the tank in
the bath tub while pressurized. Suggestions appreciated....
John Hasbrouck
#40264
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank leak test |
Can you put a definition on "very slow"....if it's just a tiny leak,
it could be the taped over fuel cap. I think it would be hard to get
a perfect seal.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
John Hasbrouck wrote:
>
> All,
> I've started the leak check on my left fuel tank using Van's kit and
> a water manometer. I have a very slow drop in the water level of the
> manometer and have sprayed the tank with soapy water but can't find the
> leak. The fuel cap is taped over, I did find a few bubbles from that at
> first but the leak persists. Any hints? Thought about imersing the
> tank in the bath tub while pressurized. Suggestions appreciated....
>
> John Hasbrouck
> #40264
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Kirkland" <jskirkland(at)webpipe.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank leak test |
If you're already flying something else, or have lots of flying buddies
around, jig it up real good so it doesn't tip over, block off vents and
lines, and fill it with gas. Either auto or avgas. If it leaks, you'll know
it. Using gas won't risk contamination by something that doesn't belong in
it anyway, when done transfer the gas to vehicle(s) that need it. Or use the
bathtub method and give the wife another test...
John Kirkland
#40333
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank leak test |
John,
Remove the tape from the cap and remove the cap. Clean the opeing and use a good
quality vinyl packing tape to seal the opeing. Leave the cap off if you like,
I did. Use fuel lube on all threaded fittings and make sure your not getting
erroneous readings from temperture changes, yes it's the manometer is that sensative.
I had the same indication you did, it turned out that the cap was leaking
and a small leak from the threads where I installed the schrader valve. Fuel
lube solved that, sealing the fuel opeing real well also contributed to sucess.
I was helping another builder and his leak came from the schrader valve
to tank fitting as well. It was a small drop on the manometer just like you describe,
it made big bubbles so if you have a leak and it's small...you can still
expect big bubbles to appear with the soapy water...don't digress just yet.
An area to check is where the forward tank spar exits the tank on the inboard
side. This area has a large void that must get prosealed pretty well from the
inside. This is the piece that holds the bearing for the alieron pushrod motion
transfer bar. I had a small leak at the intersection of the fore and aft ribs
and that brace/spar. I found it with a flashlight inside the tank in a dark
room prior to installing the rear baffle. Hope this helps.
Rick S.
40185
Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel tank leak test |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
John,
Using the manometer method you'll see the level rise and fall as a
function of ambient air temp and pressure. I let mine sit for about a
24 hour period when the weather was benign (no fronts moving through)
and took periodic readings of the level and air temp. Doing this you'll
see the level drop when the temp goes down in the evening/night and rise
when the temp rises.
The filler cap area seems to be a common place for leaks - just tape
over it. You may also see some very small air leaks around a rivet or
two. Green Locktite will fix these easily. Just put a drop on the
rivet and it wicks into voids.
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Hasbrouck
Subject: RV10-List: Fuel tank leak test
All,
I've started the leak check on my left fuel tank using Van's kit
and a
water manometer. I have a very slow drop in the water level of the
manometer and have sprayed the tank with soapy water but can't find the
leak. The fuel cap is taped over, I did find a few bubbles from that at
first but the leak persists. Any hints? Thought about imersing the
tank in
the bath tub while pressurized. Suggestions appreciated....
John Hasbrouck
#40264
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank leak test |
Thanks for your responses. Seems I may have jumped the gun. After pumping
the manometer ( just some vinyl clear hose ) to the level suggested by Van's
( 2' 3" difference between meniscii ) I saw a 1" drop over the period of an
hour. Small leaks at the fittings found and corrected then the tank pumped
again and hosed down with soapy water. Slow drop noticed again ( about 1"
in an hour ) but could find no bubbles anywhere. By then it's late and I
left it as is, wrote the e-mail and went to bed. Got up this morning fully
expecting all the pressure to have leaked out and to my surprise it was just
where I left it last night. Trying to figure out the reason for the initial
drop in the water level. Tank is in a controlled enviornment and baro
pressure has been steady. Posssible explanation might be expansion of the
tank itself? Anyhow, given the above, I guessing there is no leak. BTW,
gave some thought to the idea of filling it up with avgas but nixed that due
to fire hazzard here at home.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
| Subject: | Plane parking at Oshkosh |
Does anybody know the procedure is to park our -10 with the other -10's at
Oshkosh? Is any planning or reservation required? Cost for parking for the
whole show?
Thanks.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Plane parking at Oshkosh |
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
Check the vansairforce.net RV-10 Forum. There's a note there from the guy in charge
of RV parking for Oshkosh, and he's looking to have a special area for -10's,
relatively near Van's booth.
Be sure to get the Oshkosh NOTAM document from the EAA web site and read the whole
thing . . .
TDT
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Jesse Saint
Subject: RV10-List: Plane parking at Oshkosh
Does anybody know the procedure is to park our -10 with the other -10's at Oshkosh?
Is any planning or reservation required? Cost for parking for the whole
show?
Thanks.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Plane parking at Oshkosh |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
Actually, being one of the first couple -10's completed you might want to check
with Van's or Vans Airforce to see if they have anything in mind. Maybe you
can get some sort of special handling. ;-)
Michael
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Subject: RV10-List: Plane parking at Oshkosh
Does anybody know the procedure is to park our -10 with the other -10's at Oshkosh?
Is any planning or reservation required? Cost for parking for the whole
show?
Thanks.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
Ok, so we are just over 2 weeks away and I thought I would see if anyone is planning
anything for Oshkosh. I'll be up there the whole week as I am from the
immediate area and want to visit some friends and family. Tim, you up to putting
together a list again like you did for Sun n Fun?
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Michael - Ditto, Maybe Tim can post the attendees and a rendezvous
point. I will be flying out of PDX for ORD for a ten day rental car. I
have an Air Boss obligation in Manitowok with the Red Pilots Association
from Thursday, July 21 through Sunday, July 24 then have a house with
Cascade Warbirds friends on the lake in OSH. Will be there the entire
week and looking forward to seeing friends and meeting RV-10 rivet
pounders. Still shy by two flying RV-10 but it should be a great
presentation as the number of kits is inching towards that 500 I
forecast.
John - KUAO
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Subject: RV10-List: Oshkosh bound
Ok, so we are just over 2 weeks away and I thought I would see if anyone
is planning anything for Oshkosh. I'll be up there the whole week as I
am from the immediate area and want to visit some friends and family.
Tim, you up to putting together a list again like you did for Sun n Fun?
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
Tim,
Maybe just change the Sun-N-Fun spreadsheet to reflect Oshkosh? Last
year several of us met immediately following Van's RV-10 forum just
outside the pavilion - as a starting point, how 'bout that?
What about adding a column on the spreadsheet to also indicate who all
is attending Van's banquet?
FWIW, I'll be attending the entire week. We were initially planning to
bring our trailer and camping but have changed and are now renting a
house. Plan is to drive up Sat 7/22 and depart Sun 7/30 AM.
Bob #40105
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Subject: RV10-List: Oshkosh bound
Ok, so we are just over 2 weeks away and I thought I would see if anyone
is planning anything for Oshkosh. I'll be up there the whole week as I
am from the immediate area and want to visit some friends and family.
Tim, you up to putting together a list again like you did for Sun n Fun?
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV10-List Digest: mt prop |
Hi All,
The cost for assembly varies by the assembly center. Anywhere from $300 to
$500 or more. You'll want to contact the assembly center closest to you for
an estimate.
The MT Propeller distributors are listed on _www.MT-Propeller.com_
(http://www.MT-Propeller.com) , then the "Contact" page and then the "Distributors"
page.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 07/07/2005 11:59:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
rv10-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
From: "brian bollaert" <bbollaert(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV10-List: mt prop
? to the group :
Is anyone buying the mt prop ? has anyone installed it yet ?
How does it work perform ?, i am now deciding to put the money down on a
prop ,
finish & engine forward kit coming in sept 05 also Aerosport io 540 in sept
.Also
not shure about the group buy that i have seen mail on , i know that vans
sells therm also however you have to pick them up at a assembly center &
would
probably be extra $ not shure how much.
Brian Bollaert
40200
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net> |
Bob
I'll be there camping in a 5th wheel by the sea plane area. Bob K
Cell is the same as in Vegas 707-767-3587
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US
SSA)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oshkosh bound
Tim,
Maybe just change the Sun-N-Fun spreadsheet to reflect Oshkosh? Last year
several of us met immediately following Van's RV-10 forum just outside the
pavilion - as a starting point, how 'bout that?
What about adding a column on the spreadsheet to also indicate who all is
attending Van's banquet?
FWIW, I'll be attending the entire week. We were initially planning to
bring our trailer and camping but have changed and are now renting a house.
Plan is to drive up Sat 7/22 and depart Sun 7/30 AM.
Bob #40105
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Subject: RV10-List: Oshkosh bound
Ok, so we are just over 2 weeks away and I thought I would see if anyone is
planning anything for Oshkosh. I'll be up there the whole week as I am from
the immediate area and want to visit some friends and family. Tim, you up
to putting together a list again like you did for Sun n Fun?
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris , Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Aussie visit to Vans |
Hi all we will be staying close to Vans aircraft for about a week from Aug3 and
would like to catch up with any 10 builders in the area....we will have a car.
Realy just want to take photos of peoples 10 in the latter stages of construction
and also finished ones to get some ideas!
You can reply directly if you wish
Chris Susie Darcy vhmum(at)bigpond.com
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Cox
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 5:27 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oshkosh bound
Michael - Ditto, Maybe Tim can post the attendees and a rendezvous point. I
will be flying out of PDX for ORD for a ten day rental car. I have an Air Boss
obligation in Manitowok with the Red Pilots Association from Thursday, July
21 through Sunday, July 24 then have a house with Cascade Warbirds friends on
the lake in OSH. Will be there the entire week and looking forward to seeing
friends and meeting RV-10 rivet pounders. Still shy by two flying RV-10 but it
should be a great presentation as the number of kits is inching towards that
500 I forecast.
John - KUAO
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 11:33 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Oshkosh bound
Ok, so we are just over 2 weeks away and I thought I would see if anyone is planning
anything for Oshkosh. I'll be up there the whole week as I am from the
immediate area and want to visit some friends and family. Tim, you up to putting
together a list again like you did for Sun n Fun?
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DOUGPFLYRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Plane parking at Oshkosh |
I saw something recently about parking 10's together. It was from eaa. Check
with them.
Doug
40372
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh bound |
Just for consistency sake, the username will instead be
"rv10list" for the OSH builder thing....sorry about that.
That way it's the same as it was for snf.
The password is different, so email me....it was based
on "snf" before, so I went more generic this time so I
can use this username/password combo elsewhere on the site
if needed.
Tim
bob.kaufmann wrote:
> Bob
>
>
>
> Ill be there camping in a 5
th wheel by the sea plane area. Bob K
>
> Cell is the same as in Vegas 707-767-3587
>
>
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Condrey,
> Bob (US SSA)
> *Sent:* Friday, July 08, 2005 12:03 PM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Oshkosh bound
>
>
>
> Tim,
>
>
>
> Maybe just change the Sun-N-Fun spreadsheet to reflect Oshkosh? Last
> year several of us met immediately following Vans RV-10 forum just
> outside the pavilion as a starting point, how bout that?
>
>
>
> What about adding a column on the spreadsheet to also indicate who all
> is attending Vans banquet?
>
>
>
> FWIW, Ill be attending the entire week. We were initially planning to
> bring our trailer and camping but have changed and are now renting a
> house. Plan is to drive up Sat 7/22 and depart Sun 7/30 AM.
>
>
>
> Bob #40105
>
>
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *RV Builder
> (Michael Sausen)
> *Sent:* Friday, July 08, 2005 1:33 PM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Oshkosh bound
>
>
>
> Ok, so we are just over 2 weeks away and I thought I would see if anyone
> is planning anything for Oshkosh. I'll be up there the whole week as I
> am from the immediate area and want to visit some friends and family.
> Tim, you up to putting together a list again like you did for Sun n Fun?
>
>
>
> Michael
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com> |
| Subject: | fuel tank leak test |
Thanks for your replies! I posted this earlier today but it hasn't shown up
on the e-mail so I'll try again. Thought I had a problem with a tank leak
but turns out I jumped the gun a bit. Late last night and frustrated I had
been searching for a leak. Using a water manometer as suggested by Van's (
just a loop of clear hose with a 2' 3" diference between the meniscii ) to
establish 1 PSI in the tank, I pumped the tank up with a bicycle pump. Over
a period of about 45 minutes the level of the water would drop about 1". So
I'd pump it up again and douse the thing with soapy water. Couldn't find a
leak to save my life so I went to bed fully expecting that in the morning
the pressure would have bled off. To my surprise ( and relief ) , the
pressure had stabilized and remained constant for the next 24 hours. Guess
I don't have a leak afterall! Trying to figure out the initial pressure
drop and an engineer friend of mine suggested that what I might have seen
was the temperature change ( decrease ) of the compressed air as the tank
cooled it. Moral of the story is to let things stabilize.
John Hasbrouck
#40264
One tank done!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel tank leak test |
And you thought you built a fuel tank huh??? With the manometer attached you really
built a barometer!!!
I had the same concerns...glad we all seem to have the same paths of construction...
Now If someone can tell me how far down the ailerons deflect at full throw I'll
be even happier!!
Rick S.
40185
Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John R. Lewis" <john(at)aspzone.com> |
| Subject: | I really really want to build an airplane..... |
Ohhh boy.... I thought I had the sickness bad before. I went to the EAA
airshow up in Arlington, WA yesterday. After seeing the Vans line of
experimental aircraft, my wife is totally on-board with the idea of building
our own aircraft. It is a certainty that this will happen, probably in a
couple of years. A few things in our lives need to be finished first before
we can take on a project like this.
Premature RV-Grin http://aspzone.com/photos/john/picture1244.aspx
Rivet bucking help? http://aspzone.com/photos/john/picture1245.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
spamd3.ruraltel.net
* -4.0 RCVD_FROM_NEXTECH_2 Message came from 24.225.10-29.x network
* 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay
* lines
* 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message
* -0.8 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1%
* -0.1 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list
| From: | "Bill and Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh bound |
Tim, I don't know when anybody else will be there but I am going to be there on
Thursday through Saturday (2nd half of the show). If anybody is there during
this time I would sure like to meet some of the guys on the matronics and Yahoo
lists. This is my first show so I'm a new face in the crowd. Anyone else
going to be there at that time???
Bill Britton
RV-10 #40137
----- Original Message -----
From: bob.kaufmann
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 3:30 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oshkosh bound
Bob
I'll be there camping in a 5th wheel by the sea plane area. Bob K
Cell is the same as in Vegas 707-767-3587
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US SSA)
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 12:03 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oshkosh bound
Tim,
Maybe just change the Sun-N-Fun spreadsheet to reflect Oshkosh? Last year several
of us met immediately following Van's RV-10 forum just outside the pavilion
- as a starting point, how 'bout that?
What about adding a column on the spreadsheet to also indicate who all is attending
Van's banquet?
FWIW, I'll be attending the entire week. We were initially planning to bring
our trailer and camping but have changed and are now renting a house. Plan is
to drive up Sat 7/22 and depart Sun 7/30 AM.
Bob #40105
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 1:33 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Oshkosh bound
Ok, so we are just over 2 weeks away and I thought I would see if anyone is planning
anything for Oshkosh. I'll be up there the whole week as I am from the
immediate area and want to visit some friends and family. Tim, you up to putting
together a list again like you did for Sun n Fun?
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Indran Chelvanayagam" <ichelva(at)netspace.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh bound |
I wonder if many of you guys who are going to Oshkosh are interested in
getting together one night for food, drinks and chat about the RV-10
building experience - perhaps Wed/Thur night. From Tim's list so far, it
doesn't look like many are going to Van's Banquet on Saturday night.
Also, as the RV-10 forum is late in the week (1pm, 30 July, 08 GAMA
pavilion), I second the notion of meeting at Van's booth at a predetermined
time each day - 10.30am sounds good to me.
Indran Chelvanayagam
Bunbury, Western Australia
#40228 Tailcone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Combs" <jimc(at)mail.infra-read.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh bound |
Thursday would be a better night for me to get out for a dinner.
Count me in.
Mugshot is attached. I will have to be wearing a hat at the show (Reason should
be obvious!). I will be wandering around the avionics and engine booths looking
for stuff to put in the bird. Love to meet any and all. Looking for a cure
for this "Disease". Don't think there is one. Oh Well!
I will be over at Van's booth at the time suggested by Tim.
Thanks, Tim for setting up the web page. Really useful!
Can't wait!
Jim Combs
#40192 - Fuselage
N312F Reserved
Jim Combs
________________________________________________________________________________
;
| From: | Darton Steve <sfdarton(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh bound |
Bill,
I will likely be there for Fri-Sun.
Steve 40212 wings
--- Bill and Tami Britton wrote:
> Tim, I don't know when anybody else will be there
> but I am going to be there on Thursday through
> Saturday (2nd half of the show). If anybody is
> there during this time I would sure like to meet
> some of the guys on the matronics and Yahoo lists.
> This is my first show so I'm a new face in the
> crowd. Anyone else going to be there at that
> time???
>
> Bill Britton
> RV-10 #40137
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: bob.kaufmann
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 3:30 PM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oshkosh bound
>
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> I'll be there camping in a 5th wheel by the sea
> plane area. Bob K
>
> Cell is the same as in Vegas 707-767-3587
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US SSA)
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 12:03 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oshkosh bound
>
>
>
> Tim,
>
>
>
> Maybe just change the Sun-N-Fun spreadsheet to
> reflect Oshkosh? Last year several of us met
> immediately following Van's RV-10 forum just outside
> the pavilion - as a starting point, how 'bout that?
>
>
>
> What about adding a column on the spreadsheet to
> also indicate who all is attending Van's banquet?
>
>
>
> FWIW, I'll be attending the entire week. We were
> initially planning to bring our trailer and camping
> but have changed and are now renting a house. Plan
> is to drive up Sat 7/22 and depart Sun 7/30 AM.
>
>
>
> Bob #40105
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 1:33 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Oshkosh bound
>
>
>
> Ok, so we are just over 2 weeks away and I thought
> I would see if anyone is planning anything for
> Oshkosh. I'll be up there the whole week as I am
> from the immediate area and want to visit some
> friends and family. Tim, you up to putting together
> a list again like you did for Sun n Fun?
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
__________________________________
http://discover.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | wireless intercom |
Anybody seen the www.aveousa.com product? If there's a way to avoid running another 8 twisted triplets I am going to buy it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GenGrumpy(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh bound |
Tim,
Point me to the website and I'll log in. I'll be there Sun and Mon but have
to leave Tues am.
John "Grumpy" Miller
#40404
In a message dated 7/8/2005 6:19:52 PM Central Standard Time, Tim(at)MyRV10.com
writes:
Just for consistency sake, the username will instead be
"rv10list" for the OSH builder thing....sorry about that.
That way it's the same as it was for snf.
The password is different, so email me....it was based
on "snf" before, so I went more generic this time so I
can use this username/password combo elsewhere on the site
if needed.
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
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d2VlayAoMXBtLCAzMCBKdWx5LCAwOCBHQU1BIHBhdmlsaW9uKSwgSSBzZWNvbmQgdGhlIG5vdGlv
biBvZiBtZWV0aW5nIGF0IFZhbidzIGJvb3RoIGF0IGEgcHJlZGV0ZXJtaW5lZCB0aW1lIGVhY2gg
ZGF5IC0gMTAuMzBhbSBzb3VuZHMgZ29vZCB0byBtZS4NCgkgDQoJSW5kcmFuIENoZWx2YW5heWFn
YW0NCglCdW5idXJ5LCBXZXN0ZXJuIEF1c3RyYWxpYQ0KCSM0MDIyOCBUYWlsY29uZQ0KDQo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: VERY bad news today |
In a message dated 7/11/2005 12:27:26 A.M. Central Standard Time,
Tim(at)MyRV10.com writes:
http://www.saskatchewanairshow.com/main.php?group=/entertainment&action=/flyin
g
Know for sure that Jimmy Franklin was one of the pilots.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | VERY bad news today |
| From: | "Rick Rushing" <RickR(at)trillion21.com> |
Bobby was the other. Prayers to all of the family. These are the people who make
us dream of being better.
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of UFOBUCK(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: VERY bad news today
In a message dated 7/11/2005 12:27:26 A.M. Central Standard Time, Tim(at)MyRV10.com
writes:
http://www.saskatchewanairshow.com/main.php?group/entertainment&action/flying
Know for sure that Jimmy Franklin was one of the pilots.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | fly-in Breakfast Aug. 28th Please post. Falls City, NE (FNB) |
Currus Aircraft scheduled to attend
Aircraft scheduled to attend
| From: | "Schawang, Darrin" <SchawangD(at)macequipment.com> |
=20<> Attached is a flyer for a Fly-in Breakfast=20on
Aug. 28th at Falls City Nebraska (FNB) Brenner Field. The breakfast is provided
by and benefits the Falls City Volunteer Rural Firemen. The fly-in is held
in conjunction with the Cobblestone Festival. If you have any questions please
call. If you have an event please forward the information and I will make
sure that it is posted.
Last year we had 45 plus aircraft, and served over 350 people breakfast. =20This
year Cirrus is scheduled to have a airplane at our event.
> Thanks for your assistance in making
our event a success.
>
> Darrin Schawang
> (402) 245-4020
#####################################################################################
The information contained in this communication is intended solely for the use
of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and others authorized to receive
it. If you have received this communication in error, you must notify
us immediately by responding to this e-mail and then deleting it from your system,
and further you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution
or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information without
written permission from MAC Equipment, Inc. is strictly prohibited and may
be unlawful. Any views, opinions, or authorizations contained in this email
are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of MAC
Equipment, Inc.
#####################################################################################
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Elevator fit problem |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
Ok guys, time for me to tap that vast knowledge out there as this one has me stumped.
I have started the emp assembly part and immediately ran into a problem.
My left elevator counterbalance arm has 0 clearance fore and almost an 1/8th
inch aft on the top. On the bottom I have 1/16th fore and an 1/8th aft.
My right elevator counterbalance arm has about 1/64th fore and 3/32nd aft on
the top. The bottom has 3/32nd fore and aft.
I also have some contact on the leading edge on the right elevator in full up
position. I have triple checked the rod end bearings and they are all at 7/8th
from the spar to the center of the bearing hole. I don't recall any fit problems
during HS or elevator construction. It's almost like the top, fore, edge
of the counterbalance arms have a slight canter in.
Suggestions?
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Emp Assembly
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Elevator fit problem |
Sausen)"
0.03 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_HTML BODY": rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Hmm, had a bit of a duh moment there. Gave them both a little oomph and, wouldn't
you know it, gap was perfect. I really need to make sure I don't over think
things. ;-)
I do have one more little question that I forgot to include in the first post.
The elevator horns are a little off in alignment with both in trail. One looks
like it is a little lower and aft. Should I try to make sure they line up
before drilling them or should I just leave them a little off?
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Emp Assembly (slow build wings arrived today!)
________________________________
| From: | RV Builder (Michael Sausen) |
Subject: Elevator fit problem
Ok guys, time for me to tap that vast knowledge out there as this one has me stumped.
I have started the emp assembly part and immediately ran into a problem.
My left elevator counterbalance arm has 0 clearance fore and almost an 1/8th
inch aft on the top. On the bottom I have 1/16th fore and an 1/8th aft.
My right elevator counterbalance arm has about 1/64th fore and 3/32nd aft on
the top. The bottom has 3/32nd fore and aft.
I also have some contact on the leading edge on the right elevator in full up
position. I have triple checked the rod end bearings and they are all at 7/8th
from the spar to the center of the bearing hole. I don't recall any fit problems
during HS or elevator construction. It's almost like the top, fore, edge
of the counterbalance arms have a slight canter in.
Suggestions?
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Emp Assembly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Rolling Height |
Tim,
What's the lenght from the end of the tail cone to the firewall? My fuse is due
in a few weeks and I am wondering if I need to rearrange things.
Rick S.
40185
Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Rolling Height |
It looks like about 214" from tip to tip after you get the 2 little
cabin heat vents installed. Add maybe 1.5-2' I suppose for an engine
mount later too, but up to this point where I am now, 214" about
covers it all.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Rick wrote:
>
> Tim,
>
> What's the lenght from the end of the tail cone to the firewall? My fuse is due
in a few weeks and I am wondering if I need to rearrange things.
>
> Rick S.
> 40185
> Wings
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net> |
Hey Randy, any more little tidbits of interesting info since the
flyoff? Just wondering how things are going. Hope you are having a blast!
I just need a little "builder boost". :)
-Sean #40303 nearing end of flaps
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
Well I am in the final phase of painting the wheel pants. It is time for
another oil change. The oxy bottle will get purchased and hopefully
installed before Osh. The carpet is going in soon.
I don't have enough time with the wheel pants on to get some true
numbers but Osh is coming up and should have some real numbers on a long
trip like that. I appears that if you pull back on the power at you can
get about 10.5 gal an hour at 125 kts.
I still carry about 50 lbs in the baggage area when 2 up and pull it
with 4. It really handles 4 people well. In fact I prefer 4 people.
Myself, full fuel and 50 lbs in the back is fine. More trim and hold
some back pressure for the flare. Keep the speed up. Full flaps on all
landings seems to work best. Slower speed at touch down. The tires look
great. Almost no wear at 42 hours. Everyone that has ridden says how
quiet it is. I have the single mufflers system. Even people standing
next to it when I had the prop balanced said it was quite and that was
running at 2300 RPM for 10 seconds or so. The prop balance was a big
help. I could feel it in the rudder peddles before. Can't wait to get to
Osh. With it but I have a lot of work to still do in 1 weekend and a few
weeknights. After Osh. It will be almost done and I can get back to that
lawn. Where was that mower? I saw it 21 months ago.... Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens
Subject: RV10-List: N610RV News?
Hey Randy, any more little tidbits of interesting info since the flyoff?
Just wondering how things are going. Hope you are having a blast!
I just need a little "builder boost". :)
-Sean #40303 nearing end of flaps
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com> |
That's actually not very great news, 10.5 @ 125. Is this typical? I used
to do 12 @ 135 in the 182. I was hoping for better.
John Jessen
(riveting the VS and rudder)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
Well I am in the final phase of painting the wheel pants. It is time for
another oil change. The oxy bottle will get purchased and hopefully
installed before Osh. The carpet is going in soon.
I don't have enough time with the wheel pants on to get some true numbers
but Osh is coming up and should have some real numbers on a long trip like
that. I appears that if you pull back on the power at you can get about
10.5 gal an hour at 125 kts.
I still carry about 50 lbs in the baggage area when 2 up and pull it with 4.
It really handles 4 people well. In fact I prefer 4 people.
Myself, full fuel and 50 lbs in the back is fine. More trim and hold some
back pressure for the flare. Keep the speed up. Full flaps on all landings
seems to work best. Slower speed at touch down. The tires look great. Almost
no wear at 42 hours. Everyone that has ridden says how quiet it is. I have
the single mufflers system. Even people standing next to it when I had the
prop balanced said it was quite and that was running at 2300 RPM for 10
seconds or so. The prop balance was a big help. I could feel it in the
rudder peddles before. Can't wait to get to Osh. With it but I have a lot of
work to still do in 1 weekend and a few weeknights. After Osh. It will be
almost done and I can get back to that
lawn. Where was that mower? I saw it 21 months ago.... Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens
Subject: RV10-List: N610RV News?
Hey Randy, any more little tidbits of interesting info since the flyoff?
Just wondering how things are going. Hope you are having a blast!
I just need a little "builder boost". :)
-Sean #40303 nearing end of flaps
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N610RV News? |
Before anybody jumps to any conclusions, let's quantify all of this. Randy,
you mentioned "10.5 gal an hour at 125 kts." Can you be more specific?
Indicated airspeed, altitude, OAT, altimeter setting for starters, and then
whether "125 kts" means indicated or groundspeed, and how you arrived at
that -- i.e. a 4-way GPS average, 3-way vector, etc.
Also would be curious how you leaned it, i.e. "X degrees rich of cylinder
#N's peak EGT" or something like that.
Precision!
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (which burns ~4gph at 120KTAS 40*LOP 8000'DA)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
>
> That's actually not very great news, 10.5 @ 125. Is this typical? I used
> to do 12 @ 135 in the 182. I was hoping for better.
>
> John Jessen
> (riveting the VS and rudder)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 12:04 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
>
>
> Well I am in the final phase of painting the wheel pants. It is time for
> another oil change. The oxy bottle will get purchased and hopefully
> installed before Osh. The carpet is going in soon.
>
> I don't have enough time with the wheel pants on to get some true numbers
> but Osh is coming up and should have some real numbers on a long trip like
> that. I appears that if you pull back on the power at you can get about
> 10.5 gal an hour at 125 kts.
> I still carry about 50 lbs in the baggage area when 2 up and pull it with
4.
> It really handles 4 people well. In fact I prefer 4 people.
> Myself, full fuel and 50 lbs in the back is fine. More trim and hold some
> back pressure for the flare. Keep the speed up. Full flaps on all
landings
> seems to work best. Slower speed at touch down. The tires look great.
Almost
> no wear at 42 hours. Everyone that has ridden says how quiet it is. I
have
> the single mufflers system. Even people standing next to it when I had the
> prop balanced said it was quite and that was running at 2300 RPM for 10
> seconds or so. The prop balance was a big help. I could feel it in the
> rudder peddles before. Can't wait to get to Osh. With it but I have a lot
of
> work to still do in 1 weekend and a few weeknights. After Osh. It will be
> almost done and I can get back to that
> lawn. Where was that mower? I saw it 21 months ago.... Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 11:10 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: N610RV News?
>
>
> Hey Randy, any more little tidbits of interesting info since the flyoff?
> Just wondering how things are going. Hope you are having a blast!
>
> I just need a little "builder boost". :)
>
> -Sean #40303 nearing end of flaps
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N610RV News? |
Keep it in perspective though......my Sundowner does 9-9.5 @
110-112 Kts. Who really cares what the fuel flow is when
you pull it way back that far. Fuel flow is directly related
to speed...and speed is distance and time.
For instance, would you rather rent a plane for $50/hr
that goes 100kts, or one that goes 150Kts for $75/hr
if you were going on a 1000Nm trip?
Do the math and sure, the fuel burn may be much higher
on the $75/hr plane, but the cost of the flight will
be identical, and you'll get there over 3 hours quicker.
Sure, you can get some slight economies by pulling the power
back...Van's charts show the range increase as you
reduce to lower % of power, but, is it really that big
of a difference in the big scheme of things? I myself
would rather get there before the kids get whiny, and
pay the extra couple bucks.
As for Randy's performance numbers, I'm not at all
concerned what the fuel flow is at 125kts. I'd
be much more interested to know what it flows
at 165, 175, and 185Kts.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Current project: Fuselage
John Jessen wrote:
>
> That's actually not very great news, 10.5 @ 125. Is this typical? I used
> to do 12 @ 135 in the 182. I was hoping for better.
>
> John Jessen
> (riveting the VS and rudder)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 12:04 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
>
>
> Well I am in the final phase of painting the wheel pants. It is time for
> another oil change. The oxy bottle will get purchased and hopefully
> installed before Osh. The carpet is going in soon.
>
> I don't have enough time with the wheel pants on to get some true numbers
> but Osh is coming up and should have some real numbers on a long trip like
> that. I appears that if you pull back on the power at you can get about
> 10.5 gal an hour at 125 kts.
> I still carry about 50 lbs in the baggage area when 2 up and pull it with 4.
> It really handles 4 people well. In fact I prefer 4 people.
> Myself, full fuel and 50 lbs in the back is fine. More trim and hold some
> back pressure for the flare. Keep the speed up. Full flaps on all landings
> seems to work best. Slower speed at touch down. The tires look great. Almost
> no wear at 42 hours. Everyone that has ridden says how quiet it is. I have
> the single mufflers system. Even people standing next to it when I had the
> prop balanced said it was quite and that was running at 2300 RPM for 10
> seconds or so. The prop balance was a big help. I could feel it in the
> rudder peddles before. Can't wait to get to Osh. With it but I have a lot of
> work to still do in 1 weekend and a few weeknights. After Osh. It will be
> almost done and I can get back to that
> lawn. Where was that mower? I saw it 21 months ago.... Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 11:10 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: N610RV News?
>
>
> Hey Randy, any more little tidbits of interesting info since the flyoff?
> Just wondering how things are going. Hope you are having a blast!
>
> I just need a little "builder boost". :)
>
> -Sean #40303 nearing end of flaps
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | N610RV Fuel Burn? |
Randy,
Are you still going with us Friday morning to OSH?
This trip will make a great comparison for fuel burn and speed as we have 4
RV's going.
1. RV-4 IO-360 180HP, Fuel Injected Hartzell Prop, Mags.
2. RV-4 IO-320 170HP, Fuel Injected MT Prop, 1 Lighspeed 1 Mag.
3. RV-4 O-320 160HP, Carb, Hartzell Prop, Mags
4. RV-10 IO-540 260HP
5. V-35B Bonanza with GAMI Injectors (Very Aggressive Lean Of Peak
Operator??)
First Stop Helena, MT - home of $2.79 gas.
Of course Randy will have all the baggage :)
Rob Hickman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
Yea but what would you do at 10.5?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
That's actually not very great news, 10.5 @ 125. Is this typical? I
used to do 12 @ 135 in the 182. I was hoping for better.
John Jessen
(riveting the VS and rudder)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
Well I am in the final phase of painting the wheel pants. It is time for
another oil change. The oxy bottle will get purchased and hopefully
installed before Osh. The carpet is going in soon.
I don't have enough time with the wheel pants on to get some true
numbers but Osh is coming up and should have some real numbers on a long
trip like that. I appears that if you pull back on the power at you can
get about
10.5 gal an hour at 125 kts.
I still carry about 50 lbs in the baggage area when 2 up and pull it
with 4.
It really handles 4 people well. In fact I prefer 4 people.
Myself, full fuel and 50 lbs in the back is fine. More trim and hold
some back pressure for the flare. Keep the speed up. Full flaps on all
landings seems to work best. Slower speed at touch down. The tires look
great. Almost no wear at 42 hours. Everyone that has ridden says how
quiet it is. I have the single mufflers system. Even people standing
next to it when I had the prop balanced said it was quite and that was
running at 2300 RPM for 10 seconds or so. The prop balance was a big
help. I could feel it in the rudder peddles before. Can't wait to get to
Osh. With it but I have a lot of work to still do in 1 weekend and a few
weeknights. After Osh. It will be almost done and I can get back to that
lawn. Where was that mower? I saw it 21 months ago.... Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens
Subject: RV10-List: N610RV News?
Hey Randy, any more little tidbits of interesting info since the flyoff?
Just wondering how things are going. Hope you are having a blast!
I just need a little "builder boost". :)
-Sean #40303 nearing end of flaps
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
Kts or mph
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
That's actually not very great news, 10.5 @ 125. Is this typical? I
used to do 12 @ 135 in the 182. I was hoping for better.
John Jessen
(riveting the VS and rudder)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
Well I am in the final phase of painting the wheel pants. It is time for
another oil change. The oxy bottle will get purchased and hopefully
installed before Osh. The carpet is going in soon.
I don't have enough time with the wheel pants on to get some true
numbers but Osh is coming up and should have some real numbers on a long
trip like that. I appears that if you pull back on the power at you can
get about
10.5 gal an hour at 125 kts.
I still carry about 50 lbs in the baggage area when 2 up and pull it
with 4.
It really handles 4 people well. In fact I prefer 4 people.
Myself, full fuel and 50 lbs in the back is fine. More trim and hold
some back pressure for the flare. Keep the speed up. Full flaps on all
landings seems to work best. Slower speed at touch down. The tires look
great. Almost no wear at 42 hours. Everyone that has ridden says how
quiet it is. I have the single mufflers system. Even people standing
next to it when I had the prop balanced said it was quite and that was
running at 2300 RPM for 10 seconds or so. The prop balance was a big
help. I could feel it in the rudder peddles before. Can't wait to get to
Osh. With it but I have a lot of work to still do in 1 weekend and a few
weeknights. After Osh. It will be almost done and I can get back to that
lawn. Where was that mower? I saw it 21 months ago.... Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens
Subject: RV10-List: N610RV News?
Hey Randy, any more little tidbits of interesting info since the flyoff?
Just wondering how things are going. Hope you are having a blast!
I just need a little "builder boost". :)
-Sean #40303 nearing end of flaps
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
I would love to give everyone some hard numbers but my flying to date
mainly has been without wheel pants and would not be useful. I am about
1 week a way from doing some decent testing. I leave for osh in 1 week
and 2 days. Come and see me there and I will have some good numbers. I
think one question is what is everyone expecting for fuel burn. I can
tell you my best guess is that if you get Van's numbers at 8000ft. you
will be burning 15.5 gph. Or maybe 16.5. We will see.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
Subject: Re: RV10-List: N610RV News?
Before anybody jumps to any conclusions, let's quantify all of this.
Randy, you mentioned "10.5 gal an hour at 125 kts." Can you be more
specific?
Indicated airspeed, altitude, OAT, altimeter setting for starters, and
then whether "125 kts" means indicated or groundspeed, and how you
arrived at that -- i.e. a 4-way GPS average, 3-way vector, etc.
Also would be curious how you leaned it, i.e. "X degrees rich of
cylinder #N's peak EGT" or something like that.
Precision!
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (which burns ~4gph at 120KTAS 40*LOP 8000'DA)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
>
> That's actually not very great news, 10.5 @ 125. Is this typical? I
used
> to do 12 @ 135 in the 182. I was hoping for better.
>
> John Jessen
> (riveting the VS and rudder)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
DeBauw
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 12:04 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
>
>
> Well I am in the final phase of painting the wheel pants. It is time
for
> another oil change. The oxy bottle will get purchased and hopefully
> installed before Osh. The carpet is going in soon.
>
> I don't have enough time with the wheel pants on to get some true
numbers
> but Osh is coming up and should have some real numbers on a long trip
like
> that. I appears that if you pull back on the power at you can get
about
> 10.5 gal an hour at 125 kts.
> I still carry about 50 lbs in the baggage area when 2 up and pull it
with
4.
> It really handles 4 people well. In fact I prefer 4 people.
> Myself, full fuel and 50 lbs in the back is fine. More trim and hold
some
> back pressure for the flare. Keep the speed up. Full flaps on all
landings
> seems to work best. Slower speed at touch down. The tires look great.
Almost
> no wear at 42 hours. Everyone that has ridden says how quiet it is. I
have
> the single mufflers system. Even people standing next to it when I had
the
> prop balanced said it was quite and that was running at 2300 RPM for
10
> seconds or so. The prop balance was a big help. I could feel it in the
> rudder peddles before. Can't wait to get to Osh. With it but I have a
lot
of
> work to still do in 1 weekend and a few weeknights. After Osh. It will
be
> almost done and I can get back to that
> lawn. Where was that mower? I saw it 21 months ago.... Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean
Stephens
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 11:10 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: N610RV News?
>
>
> Hey Randy, any more little tidbits of interesting info since the
flyoff?
> Just wondering how things are going. Hope you are having a blast!
>
> I just need a little "builder boost". :)
>
> -Sean #40303 nearing end of flaps
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Specketer" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
I have been out of town and have missed some posts. What did the group
deside about meeting early and where?
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
Wow, did I open a can of worms? My fuel burn number at 125 kts is a very
rough recollection. I see flew back from central Oregon in very bumpy
conditions two weeks ago. I would not use the numbers for any thing but
mindless chatter. It did show me that if I wanted to fly with 4 people
full fuel and stay with my friend in his 172 I am guessing 9.5 gph or
maybe 9.0. That is about that same as his 4cyl. My friend and I were
talking the other day about a trip we are going to take in 3 weeks or
so. He will have his 172. Just some conversation. It looks like that if
you wanted to you could get the same fuel burn as the 172 with true 4
place and baggage ability. Crank it up get there soon. Your choice.
This reminds me of a magazine article I read a few years back about a
guy who owned an FBO. When ever he had to fly somewhere he almost always
flew his Super cub. When asked by his employees why he didn't take one
of the fast twin or fast retractable singles he ask them "What you guys
don't like to fly." His point was flying fun. If you only want to go
fast and land soon that is fine but it cuts down on the fun flying time.
Just rambling. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: N610RV News?
Keep it in perspective though......my Sundowner does 9-9.5 @
110-112 Kts. Who really cares what the fuel flow is when
you pull it way back that far. Fuel flow is directly related to
speed...and speed is distance and time.
For instance, would you rather rent a plane for $50/hr that goes 100kts,
or one that goes 150Kts for $75/hr if you were going on a 1000Nm trip?
Do the math and sure, the fuel burn may be much higher on the $75/hr
plane, but the cost of the flight will be identical, and you'll get
there over 3 hours quicker.
Sure, you can get some slight economies by pulling the power
back...Van's charts show the range increase as you reduce to lower % of
power, but, is it really that big of a difference in the big scheme of
things? I myself would rather get there before the kids get whiny, and
pay the extra couple bucks.
As for Randy's performance numbers, I'm not at all concerned what the
fuel flow is at 125kts. I'd be much more interested to know what it
flows at 165, 175, and 185Kts.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Current project: Fuselage
John Jessen wrote:
>
> That's actually not very great news, 10.5 @ 125. Is this typical? I
> used to do 12 @ 135 in the 182. I was hoping for better.
>
> John Jessen
> (riveting the VS and rudder)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
> DeBauw
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 12:04 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
>
>
> Well I am in the final phase of painting the wheel pants. It is time
> for another oil change. The oxy bottle will get purchased and
> hopefully installed before Osh. The carpet is going in soon.
>
> I don't have enough time with the wheel pants on to get some true
> numbers but Osh is coming up and should have some real numbers on a
> long trip like that. I appears that if you pull back on the power at
> you can get about
> 10.5 gal an hour at 125 kts.
> I still carry about 50 lbs in the baggage area when 2 up and pull it
with 4.
> It really handles 4 people well. In fact I prefer 4 people.
> Myself, full fuel and 50 lbs in the back is fine. More trim and hold
> some back pressure for the flare. Keep the speed up. Full flaps on
> all landings seems to work best. Slower speed at touch down. The tires
> look great. Almost no wear at 42 hours. Everyone that has ridden says
> how quiet it is. I have the single mufflers system. Even people
> standing next to it when I had the prop balanced said it was quite and
> that was running at 2300 RPM for 10 seconds or so. The prop balance
> was a big help. I could feel it in the rudder peddles before. Can't
> wait to get to Osh. With it but I have a lot of work to still do in 1
> weekend and a few weeknights. After Osh. It will be almost done and I
can get back to that
> lawn. Where was that mower? I saw it 21 months ago.... Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean
> Stephens
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 11:10 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: N610RV News?
>
>
> Hey Randy, any more little tidbits of interesting info since the
flyoff?
> Just wondering how things are going. Hope you are having a blast!
>
> I just need a little "builder boost". :)
>
> -Sean #40303 nearing end of flaps
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | N610RV Fuel Burn? |
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
Yes we are buddy. My wife and I are very excited to be with the group
of experienced distance cruisers.
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
RobHickman(at)aol.com
Subject: RV10-List: N610RV Fuel Burn?
Randy,
Are you still going with us Friday morning to OSH?
This trip will make a great comparison for fuel burn and speed as we
have 4 RV's going.
1. RV-4 IO-360 180HP, Fuel Injected Hartzell Prop, Mags.
2. RV-4 IO-320 170HP, Fuel Injected MT Prop, 1 Lighspeed 1 Mag.
3. RV-4 O-320 160HP, Carb, Hartzell Prop, Mags
4. RV-10 IO-540 260HP
5. V-35B Bonanza with GAMI Injectors (Very Aggressive Lean Of Peak
Operator??)
First Stop Helena, MT - home of $2.79 gas.
Of course Randy will have all the baggage :)
Rob Hickman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com> |
Randy, I'm not knocking your performance. The numbers just took me by
surprise, and only because of the 182 performance (in kts, always in kts).
That's all I have with that type of engine to reference it by. Of course
burning 15-16 gph in the 182 would net me 140 max. There's no comparison at
the top end.
Dan is correct. I'll wait until you and others have a full set of numbers
at speed at altitude, etc. My apologies for jumping the gun.
Those countersinks came in, btw, in case you need them.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
Yea but what would you do at 10.5?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
That's actually not very great news, 10.5 @ 125. Is this typical? I used
to do 12 @ 135 in the 182. I was hoping for better.
John Jessen
(riveting the VS and rudder)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
Well I am in the final phase of painting the wheel pants. It is time for
another oil change. The oxy bottle will get purchased and hopefully
installed before Osh. The carpet is going in soon.
I don't have enough time with the wheel pants on to get some true numbers
but Osh is coming up and should have some real numbers on a long trip like
that. I appears that if you pull back on the power at you can get about
10.5 gal an hour at 125 kts.
I still carry about 50 lbs in the baggage area when 2 up and pull it with 4.
It really handles 4 people well. In fact I prefer 4 people.
Myself, full fuel and 50 lbs in the back is fine. More trim and hold some
back pressure for the flare. Keep the speed up. Full flaps on all landings
seems to work best. Slower speed at touch down. The tires look great. Almost
no wear at 42 hours. Everyone that has ridden says how quiet it is. I have
the single mufflers system. Even people standing next to it when I had the
prop balanced said it was quite and that was running at 2300 RPM for 10
seconds or so. The prop balance was a big help. I could feel it in the
rudder peddles before. Can't wait to get to Osh. With it but I have a lot of
work to still do in 1 weekend and a few weeknights. After Osh. It will be
almost done and I can get back to that
lawn. Where was that mower? I saw it 21 months ago.... Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens
Subject: RV10-List: N610RV News?
Hey Randy, any more little tidbits of interesting info since the flyoff?
Just wondering how things are going. Hope you are having a blast!
I just need a little "builder boost". :)
-Sean #40303 nearing end of flaps
________________________________________________________________________________
"Randy DeBauw"
Well you will go with me this weekend for a little testing. I will be
at the hanger tonight. For the C/S if you will be around.
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
Randy, I'm not knocking your performance. The numbers just took me by
surprise, and only because of the 182 performance (in kts, always in
kts).
That's all I have with that type of engine to reference it by. Of
course burning 15-16 gph in the 182 would net me 140 max. There's no
comparison at the top end.
Dan is correct. I'll wait until you and others have a full set of
numbers at speed at altitude, etc. My apologies for jumping the gun.
Those countersinks came in, btw, in case you need them.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
Yea but what would you do at 10.5?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
That's actually not very great news, 10.5 @ 125. Is this typical? I
used to do 12 @ 135 in the 182. I was hoping for better.
John Jessen
(riveting the VS and rudder)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
Well I am in the final phase of painting the wheel pants. It is time for
another oil change. The oxy bottle will get purchased and hopefully
installed before Osh. The carpet is going in soon.
I don't have enough time with the wheel pants on to get some true
numbers but Osh is coming up and should have some real numbers on a long
trip like that. I appears that if you pull back on the power at you can
get about
10.5 gal an hour at 125 kts.
I still carry about 50 lbs in the baggage area when 2 up and pull it
with 4.
It really handles 4 people well. In fact I prefer 4 people.
Myself, full fuel and 50 lbs in the back is fine. More trim and hold
some back pressure for the flare. Keep the speed up. Full flaps on all
landings seems to work best. Slower speed at touch down. The tires look
great. Almost no wear at 42 hours. Everyone that has ridden says how
quiet it is. I have the single mufflers system. Even people standing
next to it when I had the prop balanced said it was quite and that was
running at 2300 RPM for 10 seconds or so. The prop balance was a big
help. I could feel it in the rudder peddles before. Can't wait to get to
Osh. With it but I have a lot of work to still do in 1 weekend and a few
weeknights. After Osh. It will be almost done and I can get back to that
lawn. Where was that mower? I saw it 21 months ago.... Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens
Subject: RV10-List: N610RV News?
Hey Randy, any more little tidbits of interesting info since the flyoff?
Just wondering how things are going. Hope you are having a blast!
I just need a little "builder boost". :)
-Sean #40303 nearing end of flaps
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Sponcil" <bsponcil(at)belinblank.org> |
| Subject: | Re: N610RV News? |
report
Yeah it seems kind of low on both counts. My friend's PA-28-235 running at
23 squared and leaned burns nearly 14 GPH so 10.5 GPH seems like it'd have
to be WAY down the power chart. But then perhaps the injected 540 is WAY
more efficient than the carburated B3B4. Anyone got the performance/power
chart for an IO-540?
-Brian
Iowa City, IA
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
>
> That's actually not very great news, 10.5 @ 125. Is this typical? I used
> to do 12 @ 135 in the 182. I was hoping for better.
>
> John Jessen
> (riveting the VS and rudder)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N610RV News? |
Randy (and others),
I'm attaching a spreadsheet that an RV friend of mine gave me. It
correlates OATs and altitudes to specific density altitudes (8k, 10k, and
12k).
If you're trying to fly at 8000' DA, then this spreadsheet is handy in the
cockpit for determining the best altitude to fly to achieve that based on
temperature. It's not 100% scientific, but it's close enough for our
purposes.
Hope this helps, and I look forward to seeing some test results.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (558 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
>
> Wow, did I open a can of worms? My fuel burn number at 125 kts is a very
> rough recollection. I see flew back from central Oregon in very bumpy
> conditions two weeks ago. I would not use the numbers for any thing but
> mindless chatter. It did show me that if I wanted to fly with 4 people
> full fuel and stay with my friend in his 172 I am guessing 9.5 gph or
> maybe 9.0. That is about that same as his 4cyl. My friend and I were
> talking the other day about a trip we are going to take in 3 weeks or
> so. He will have his 172. Just some conversation. It looks like that if
> you wanted to you could get the same fuel burn as the 172 with true 4
> place and baggage ability. Crank it up get there soon. Your choice.
> This reminds me of a magazine article I read a few years back about a
> guy who owned an FBO. When ever he had to fly somewhere he almost always
> flew his Super cub. When asked by his employees why he didn't take one
> of the fast twin or fast retractable singles he ask them "What you guys
> don't like to fly." His point was flying fun. If you only want to go
> fast and land soon that is fine but it cuts down on the fun flying time.
> Just rambling. Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 1:24 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: N610RV News?
>
>
> Keep it in perspective though......my Sundowner does 9-9.5 @
> 110-112 Kts. Who really cares what the fuel flow is when
> you pull it way back that far. Fuel flow is directly related to
> speed...and speed is distance and time.
>
> For instance, would you rather rent a plane for $50/hr that goes 100kts,
> or one that goes 150Kts for $75/hr if you were going on a 1000Nm trip?
>
> Do the math and sure, the fuel burn may be much higher on the $75/hr
> plane, but the cost of the flight will be identical, and you'll get
> there over 3 hours quicker.
>
> Sure, you can get some slight economies by pulling the power
> back...Van's charts show the range increase as you reduce to lower % of
> power, but, is it really that big of a difference in the big scheme of
> things? I myself would rather get there before the kids get whiny, and
> pay the extra couple bucks.
>
> As for Randy's performance numbers, I'm not at all concerned what the
> fuel flow is at 125kts. I'd be much more interested to know what it
> flows at 165, 175, and 185Kts.
>
> Tim
>
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
>
> John Jessen wrote:
> >
> > That's actually not very great news, 10.5 @ 125. Is this typical? I
> > used to do 12 @ 135 in the 182. I was hoping for better.
> >
> > John Jessen
> > (riveting the VS and rudder)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
> > DeBauw
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 12:04 PM
> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
> >
> >
> > Well I am in the final phase of painting the wheel pants. It is time
> > for another oil change. The oxy bottle will get purchased and
> > hopefully installed before Osh. The carpet is going in soon.
> >
> > I don't have enough time with the wheel pants on to get some true
> > numbers but Osh is coming up and should have some real numbers on a
> > long trip like that. I appears that if you pull back on the power at
> > you can get about
> > 10.5 gal an hour at 125 kts.
> > I still carry about 50 lbs in the baggage area when 2 up and pull it
> with 4.
> > It really handles 4 people well. In fact I prefer 4 people.
> > Myself, full fuel and 50 lbs in the back is fine. More trim and hold
> > some back pressure for the flare. Keep the speed up. Full flaps on
> > all landings seems to work best. Slower speed at touch down. The tires
>
> > look great. Almost no wear at 42 hours. Everyone that has ridden says
> > how quiet it is. I have the single mufflers system. Even people
> > standing next to it when I had the prop balanced said it was quite and
>
> > that was running at 2300 RPM for 10 seconds or so. The prop balance
> > was a big help. I could feel it in the rudder peddles before. Can't
> > wait to get to Osh. With it but I have a lot of work to still do in 1
> > weekend and a few weeknights. After Osh. It will be almost done and I
> can get back to that
> > lawn. Where was that mower? I saw it 21 months ago.... Randy
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean
> > Stephens
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 11:10 AM
> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV10-List: N610RV News?
> >
> >
> > Hey Randy, any more little tidbits of interesting info since the
> flyoff?
> > Just wondering how things are going. Hope you are having a blast!
> >
> > I just need a little "builder boost". :)
> >
> > -Sean #40303 nearing end of flaps
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com> |
Just before Sun n Fun there was a -10 advertised for sale, finished in the
$200K price range. Anyone know if it sold and for what $? Just curious.
John Hasbrouck
One tank down, one to go!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 for sale |
Linn,
You're right, is was a spec but I wondered if anyone took the bait.
Randy and I talked about it at SnF thinking the price was steep. But then
again, Cessna wants $250K for a glassed up 172. Van was interested in the
result as I recall. Nice to know what the rest of the market (
non-builders ) thinks of the -10.
John Hasbrouck
#40264
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
Sorry Gary, but I don't know if there's a real big consensus yet.
The general feeling I get is that Thursday night would probably
be the largest atteendance night if we have a gathering.
It also sounds like there should be a fair turnout at the daily
10:30am meet-up at Van's booth. I do encourage y'all to take
a quick jaunt and meet up daily at 10:30. At least from that
point if there's something spur-of-the-moment being planned,
everyone can hear it and spread the word. Many things tend to
happen once a group meets eachother a bit. I don't have the
resouces or schedule to be able to get a lid on planning a
gathering other than the 10:30am thing, but anyone else who does
is welcome to take the bull by the horns.
I'm planning to skip probably 2 weekdays or maybe 3 myself.
I don't think I'll show on Monday, and unless I stay overnight
Thursday it's questionable about Friday. But, I'm absolutely
going to be there Saturday, likely on Sunday, and try to for
sure be there Tuesday and Thursday. If Tuesday's weather is
crappy, I'll push until Wednesday. Wow, what a confusing
mouthful. Anyway, if I'm not there on a day or two, y'all
keep the stuff going for me. I just need to coordinate my
flying back and forth, and the kids schedule while I'm gone.
Tim
Gary Specketer wrote:
> I have been out of town and have missed some posts. What did the group
> deside about meeting early and where?
> Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> |
| Subject: | Lycoming Engine Mount Ears for Swap |
There is a guy on the Rocket list with a set of the small Lycoming
engine mounting ears he would like to trade for the large ones. If you
have a Lycoming with the Large diameter engine mounting ears, you will
need the small ones for an RV-10. Please contact him for more
information.
>>Hi Mike,
>>Yes, it would be great if you post my info on the RV10 website.
>>They can contact me at:
>>Peter van Schoonhoven
>>360-901-7611
>>email pvans(at)pacifier.com
>>My mounting ears are part number 70456.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Hartzell CS Prop For Sale |
My RV-10 buddy Terry Cole, (builder #40045) who passed away of a heart
attack at age 52 has a Hartzell CS Prop HC-C2YK-1BF-F8474-D-4, Serial
#CH11073, 80" length, that has had the blades
rolled, hub disassembled, serviced, all AD's complied with, and new seals
installed by certified prop shop in Lubbock, Texas, available for $3000.00.
Picture of hubs before reassembly, and custom blades paint job done by prop
shop is attached.
The prop shop is Porterfield Propellers, owned and operated by Tom
Porterfield, (806) 749-8000.
If you have any other questions please feel free to contact me on my cell
phone (806) 535-1019.
Best regards,
Russ Daves
#40044 (Fuselage on main gear)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | IO-540 Camshaft For Sale |
My RV-10 buddy Terry Cole, (builder #40045) who passed away of a heart
attack at age 52 also has an IO-540 Camshaft, with the gears, for sale that
has been overhauled and yellow tagged. Will sale for $400.00 or swap for an
servicable camshaft for $200.00.
If you have any other questions please feel free to contact me on my cell
phone (806) 535-1019.
Best regards,
Russ Daves
#40044 (Fuselage on main gear)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net> |
I will be there for most of the show mug shot included will have some with
the RV-10 soon.
Noel RV-10 40091 paint
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Combs
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Oshkosh bound
Thursday would be a better night for me to get out for a dinner.
Count me in.
Mugshot is attached. I will have to be wearing a hat at the show (Reason
should be obvious!). I will be wandering around the avionics and engine
booths looking for stuff to put in the bird. Love to meet any and all.
Looking for a cure for this "Disease". Don't think there is one. Oh Well!
I will be over at Van's booth at the time suggested by Tim.
Thanks, Tim for setting up the web page. Really useful!
Can't wait!
Jim Combs
#40192 - Fuselage
N312F Reserved
Jim Combs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "stevenflys1(at)juno.com" <stevenflys1(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Oshkosh Question |
I am planning on buying my RV-10 kit on or soon after October 31st (the day my
divorce is settled). I plan to attend Oshkosh July 30th & 31st. I have been
to Oshkosh twice before, but just to look, never to buy anything. Now that I
am almost in a position to build I wanted some advice. Besides shopping and seeing
things up close, what kind of deals can one typically find on tools, building
material, etc. at Oshkosh? Does Vans offer any deals at the show? Another
words, is it worth my time and money to buy things at Oshkosh or should I
just order it all and have it shipped to South Carolina? Thanks for your input.
Steven J Morris
wanna-be builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Oshkosh Question |
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
Van's never has deals. Feel free to order anytime and not loose out. You
can save on avionics but don't' buy anything yet. Tools will be your big
savings or at least you can checkout all of the vendors. I bought my
Pnum. Squeezer at Oshkosh in 03. I sold it 195.00. The guy I bought it
from says he gets 300.00 for the same thing now. There is so much to see
that I spent 6 days there and still missed some. That is if you take in
a dozen or so forums. The forums will be a big help. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
stevenflys1(at)juno.com
Subject: RV10-List: Oshkosh Question
-->
I am planning on buying my RV-10 kit on or soon after October 31st (the
day my divorce is settled). I plan to attend Oshkosh July 30th & 31st.
I have been to Oshkosh twice before, but just to look, never to buy
anything. Now that I am almost in a position to build I wanted some
advice. Besides shopping and seeing things up close, what kind of deals
can one typically find on tools, building material, etc. at Oshkosh?
Does Vans offer any deals at the show? Another words, is it worth my
time and money to buy things at Oshkosh or should I just order it all
and have it shipped to South Carolina? Thanks for your input.
Steven J Morris
wanna-be builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Oshkosh Question |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
Van's doesn't offer any discount for ordering at OSH. I'm sure you
could find deals on tools piecemeal, but (my opinion) you're probably
just as well off calling Avery and/or Cleaveland and asking them if
they'll have a show special and if so, if you can get it now. Then
spend your time at OSH talking with other builders, sitting in the
fuselage mock-up dreaming, attending forums, and drooling over cool
avionics.
BTW, I upgraded my compressor from a 26 gal, 5 HP vertical to a 60 gal,
7HP. The 26 gal is a model VT6315 (from Home Depot, made by Campbell
Hausfeld) now collecting dust. It's not quite 2 years old and I'd make
somebody a heck of a deal if they want it. I've also got a Ryobi 9"
bandsaw that somebody can have for free it they want it:) I was never
satisfied with it but it would certainly get somebody started!
I'll be driving up and can bring either or both along - email me offline
if interested.
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
stevenflys1(at)juno.com
Subject: RV10-List: Oshkosh Question
I am planning on buying my RV-10 kit on or soon after October 31st (the
day my divorce is settled). I plan to attend Oshkosh July 30th & 31st.
I have been to Oshkosh twice before, but just to look, never to buy
anything. Now that I am almost in a position to build I wanted some
advice. Besides shopping and seeing things up close, what kind of deals
can one typically find on tools, building material, etc. at Oshkosh?
Does Vans offer any deals at the show? Another words, is it worth my
time and money to buy things at Oshkosh or should I just order it all
and have it shipped to South Carolina? Thanks for your input.
Steven J Morris
wanna-be builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gommone7(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh Question |
Hi,my name is Hugo,I 'm a new suscriber at this forum,since the RV10 is in the
market I look to order one,Just sold my Socata Rallye 180,I have a few questions
before order one ,but the mos important is ,yesterday somebody mention the
best he can have is 10,5 GPH at 125 .the reason I will suffer for at least 5 years
with not flying(I love building too) is because the advertise 175 mph at
cruise.four adults and full fuel,its this something realistic or will be a myth..
Hugo
>
> From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
> Date: 2005/07/13 Wed AM 10:41:35 EDT
> To:
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oshkosh Question
>
>
> Van's never has deals. Feel free to order anytime and not loose out. You
> can save on avionics but don't' buy anything yet. Tools will be your big
> savings or at least you can checkout all of the vendors. I bought my
> Pnum. Squeezer at Oshkosh in 03. I sold it 195.00. The guy I bought it
> from says he gets 300.00 for the same thing now. There is so much to see
> that I spent 6 days there and still missed some. That is if you take in
> a dozen or so forums. The forums will be a big help. Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> stevenflys1(at)juno.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 7:27 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Oshkosh Question
>
> -->
>
>
> I am planning on buying my RV-10 kit on or soon after October 31st (the
> day my divorce is settled). I plan to attend Oshkosh July 30th & 31st.
> I have been to Oshkosh twice before, but just to look, never to buy
> anything. Now that I am almost in a position to build I wanted some
> advice. Besides shopping and seeing things up close, what kind of deals
> can one typically find on tools, building material, etc. at Oshkosh?
> Does Vans offer any deals at the show? Another words, is it worth my
> time and money to buy things at Oshkosh or should I just order it all
> and have it shipped to South Carolina? Thanks for your input.
> Steven J Morris
> wanna-be builder
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Oshkosh Question |
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
You didn't pickup on the fact that I was at a very low power setting.
Something like 45%. If you push the black knob in you will cruse at
high speed. I was making a statement that if you wanted to run low power
you can get very reasonable fuel burn and still get 125 kts. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gommone7(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: RE: RV10-List: Oshkosh Question
Hi,my name is Hugo,I 'm a new suscriber at this forum,since the RV10 is
in the market I look to order one,Just sold my Socata Rallye 180,I have
a few questions before order one ,but the mos important is ,yesterday
somebody mention the best he can have is 10,5 GPH at 125 .the reason I
will suffer for at least 5 years with not flying(I love building too) is
because the advertise 175 mph at cruise.four adults and full fuel,its
this something realistic or will be a myth..
Hugo
>
> From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
> Date: 2005/07/13 Wed AM 10:41:35 EDT
> To:
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oshkosh Question
>
>
> Van's never has deals. Feel free to order anytime and not loose out.
> You can save on avionics but don't' buy anything yet. Tools will be
> your big savings or at least you can checkout all of the vendors. I
> bought my Pnum. Squeezer at Oshkosh in 03. I sold it 195.00. The guy I
> bought it from says he gets 300.00 for the same thing now. There is so
> much to see that I spent 6 days there and still missed some. That is
> if you take in a dozen or so forums. The forums will be a big help.
> Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> stevenflys1(at)juno.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 7:27 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Oshkosh Question
>
> -->
>
>
> I am planning on buying my RV-10 kit on or soon after October 31st
> (the day my divorce is settled). I plan to attend Oshkosh July 30th &
31st.
> I have been to Oshkosh twice before, but just to look, never to buy
> anything. Now that I am almost in a position to build I wanted some
> advice. Besides shopping and seeing things up close, what kind of
> deals can one typically find on tools, building material, etc. at
Oshkosh?
> Does Vans offer any deals at the show? Another words, is it worth my
> time and money to buy things at Oshkosh or should I just order it all
> and have it shipped to South Carolina? Thanks for your input.
> Steven J Morris
> wanna-be builder
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 for sale |
John,
Yep, that's the one. Did it sell? Randy and I had the same
conversation about -10 values.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gommone7(at)bellsouth.net> |
Off course I understand if you push you will go fast ,my question was if somebody
flying see the advertise numbers speed and payload.
Hugo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh Question |
Cleaveland Tools had a show special last year on their tool kit. That's
when I bought mine. Other than that not many other deals that you'd be
interested in. As mentioned before, Van's doesn't discount. The price is
right already. OSH is a good chance to look around at what's available but
I'd concentrate on basic building info and any seminars concerning your
project. Avionics, interiors, instruments ect. are a ways down the road.
One caution, unless you know for sure what you're buying, stay out of the
fly market...........john
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
I just received a call from Van's. They will have some true numbers for
you at Oshkosh in a customers plane. I can't tell you who's. I'll be
busy next Wed am. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gommone7(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: RV10-List: speed
Off course I understand if you push you will go fast ,my question was if
somebody flying see the advertise numbers speed and payload.
Hugo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
Hugo,
Randy is flying, he is in the test stages, although he has flown off his hours
to allow passengers. All of us are waiting for his info, which he is graciously
going to provide as soon as he works through his detailed testing. I'm sure
it will be posted here right away. Until then you have to go by Van's numbers
and the matronics archives for other builders input and or speculation as to
the performance.
Rick s.
40185
Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gommone7(at)bellsouth.net> |
Thanks,
Hugo
PS. if anybody need fiberglass work ,or special molds .,I'm building boats(inflatables)
in Ft Lauderdale,anythings will take me out of work for airplanes will
do me a favor
>
> From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
> Date: 2005/07/13 Wed PM 01:23:33 EDT
> To:
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: speed
>
>
> I just received a call from Van's. They will have some true numbers for
> you at Oshkosh in a customers plane. I can't tell you who's. I'll be
> busy next Wed am. Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> gommone7(at)bellsouth.net
> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 10:03 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: speed
>
>
> Off course I understand if you push you will go fast ,my question was if
> somebody flying see the advertise numbers speed and payload.
> Hugo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rudder Pedal Cable Attach |
SSA)"
Randy,
What was the final solution that you used for the cable attach to the
pedals? I found reference to the issue but not the solution in either
the archives or on Tim's website.
Bob #40105
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rudder Pedal Cable Attach |
| From: | "Conti, Rick" <rick.conti(at)boeing.com> |
Speaking of pedals (rudder). Has anyone connected a rudder trim system
in a 10? If so, what method did you us?
Thank You
Rick Conti
office: 703-414-6141
cell: 571-215-6134
-----Original Message-----
From: Condrey, Bob (US SSA) [mailto:bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com]
Subject: RV10-List: Rudder Pedal Cable Attach
Randy,
What was the final solution that you used for the cable attach to the
pedals? I found reference to the issue but not the solution in either
the archives or on Tim's website.
Bob #40105
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rudder Pedal Cable Attach |
| From: | "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> |
Of the other RV variants, those that I have seen that have needed them
use a small wedge placed/glued on the trailing edge of the rudder. I
have also heard of people using springs for this, but have not seen any
in person.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Conti, Rick
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rudder Pedal Cable Attach
Speaking of pedals (rudder). Has anyone connected a rudder trim system
in a 10? If so, what method did you us?
Thank You
Rick Conti
office: 703-414-6141
cell: 571-215-6134
-----Original Message-----
From: Condrey, Bob (US SSA) [mailto:bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com]
Subject: RV10-List: Rudder Pedal Cable Attach
Randy,
What was the final solution that you used for the cable attach to the
pedals? I found reference to the issue but not the solution in either
the archives or on Tim's website.
Bob #40105
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rudder Pedal Cable Attach |
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
I attached just like the plans. No issue. Just make sure that you
install the master cyl bolts so the nuts are facing away from your shoe.
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
(US SSA)
Subject: RV10-List: Rudder Pedal Cable Attach
-->
Randy,
What was the final solution that you used for the cable attach to the
pedals? I found reference to the issue but not the solution in either
the archives or on Tim's website.
Bob #40105
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rudder Pedal Cable Attach |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
Thanks - I thought the issue was where the cable attached to the pedals
and that you couldn't put the bolt in the other direction due to
clearance with the tunnel wall.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rudder Pedal Cable Attach
I attached just like the plans. No issue. Just make sure that you
install the master cyl bolts so the nuts are facing away from your shoe.
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
(US SSA)
Subject: RV10-List: Rudder Pedal Cable Attach
-->
Randy,
What was the final solution that you used for the cable attach to the
pedals? I found reference to the issue but not the solution in either
the archives or on Tim's website.
Bob #40105
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
We've been getting number like 175mph (sorry for the statue numbers) at
9.5gph at 12,000 with no gear leg fairings. We've seen 175ish @ 8.5gph @
14,500. It likes high. We should get some good number on the trip to Osh.
Osh will be the first cross-country.
Weight-wise, it does take full back stick on the flare with one or 2 in the
front. Interestingly, if Tom's spreadsheet is accurate, adding another
person in the front seat actually moves the CG back a little bit (of course
you have a forward CG with more weight in that case). We were putting 80lbs
in the luggage to the first couple of hours, but removed it and haven't put
it back in.
We installed two AeroTrim servos for the rudder and aileron and we love
them. You can trip that baby out no matter where the weight is then fly
with you feet on the floor. The ball stays almost pegged in the center.
The servos aren't impressive-looking, but it is a super-easy install
(especially after everything is closed up and the plane is flying) and they
seem to work great. We got them for $175 each plus about $35 for the relay
decks to be able to use the SPST action of the coolie hat.
We have an Infinity Aerospace stick grip with 3 axis trim, flaps, PTT, Auto
Pilot connect/disconnect and flight timer start/stop. Boost pump switch is
between the throttle and prop knobs. That way everything's at the
fingertips.
The Dynons are great instruments and the TruTrak ADI is quite impressive.
It sounds like Dynon is going to be shipping their 7" EFIS by Oshkosh and
the EMS by the end of the year. For those wanting a glass cockpit on a
budget, $5,000 will take the whole setup home. They don't have a GPS yet in
the product line, but they hope to in the future. I realize they aren't
Cheltons, but they don't cost $25,900 for a pair either.
See you at Osh. I am in St. Louis right now on the way to WI for a wedding
(yes, I am driving 3 days with the family while my dad flies it in a day,
could almost do it non-stop, in the -10). Then a week of vacation in the
north woods and Osh on the 24th.
GOD BLESS!
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
That's actually not very great news, 10.5 @ 125. Is this typical? I used
to do 12 @ 135 in the 182. I was hoping for better.
John Jessen
(riveting the VS and rudder)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
Well I am in the final phase of painting the wheel pants. It is time for
another oil change. The oxy bottle will get purchased and hopefully
installed before Osh. The carpet is going in soon.
I don't have enough time with the wheel pants on to get some true numbers
but Osh is coming up and should have some real numbers on a long trip like
that. I appears that if you pull back on the power at you can get about
10.5 gal an hour at 125 kts.
I still carry about 50 lbs in the baggage area when 2 up and pull it with 4.
It really handles 4 people well. In fact I prefer 4 people.
Myself, full fuel and 50 lbs in the back is fine. More trim and hold some
back pressure for the flare. Keep the speed up. Full flaps on all landings
seems to work best. Slower speed at touch down. The tires look great. Almost
no wear at 42 hours. Everyone that has ridden says how quiet it is. I have
the single mufflers system. Even people standing next to it when I had the
prop balanced said it was quite and that was running at 2300 RPM for 10
seconds or so. The prop balance was a big help. I could feel it in the
rudder peddles before. Can't wait to get to Osh. With it but I have a lot of
work to still do in 1 weekend and a few weeknights. After Osh. It will be
almost done and I can get back to that
lawn. Where was that mower? I saw it 21 months ago.... Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens
Subject: RV10-List: N610RV News?
Hey Randy, any more little tidbits of interesting info since the flyoff?
Just wondering how things are going. Hope you are having a blast!
I just need a little "builder boost". :)
-Sean #40303 nearing end of flaps
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
One of the big issues for us on fuel burn vs. flight time is whether or not
you will have to make a stop. If you are going 1,000 miles (yes, I am
talking statue number as always, sorry), it would be better to back it off
to wherever it is required to make it non-stop. Descending and buying fuel,
and getting back in for another hour or two actually adds about and hour or
two to the flight and might add more whining to the kids. You know, a
little bit of nitros-oxide added to the rear seat passengers' oxygen would
take care of most of the whining, but then I guess you are increasing your
cost again. OH YEAH, invest in a DVD player and they can sit forever,
right?
IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE USE!
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: N610RV News?
Keep it in perspective though......my Sundowner does 9-9.5 @
110-112 Kts. Who really cares what the fuel flow is when
you pull it way back that far. Fuel flow is directly related
to speed...and speed is distance and time.
For instance, would you rather rent a plane for $50/hr
that goes 100kts, or one that goes 150Kts for $75/hr
if you were going on a 1000Nm trip?
Do the math and sure, the fuel burn may be much higher
on the $75/hr plane, but the cost of the flight will
be identical, and you'll get there over 3 hours quicker.
Sure, you can get some slight economies by pulling the power
back...Van's charts show the range increase as you
reduce to lower % of power, but, is it really that big
of a difference in the big scheme of things? I myself
would rather get there before the kids get whiny, and
pay the extra couple bucks.
As for Randy's performance numbers, I'm not at all
concerned what the fuel flow is at 125kts. I'd
be much more interested to know what it flows
at 165, 175, and 185Kts.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Current project: Fuselage
John Jessen wrote:
>
> That's actually not very great news, 10.5 @ 125. Is this typical? I used
> to do 12 @ 135 in the 182. I was hoping for better.
>
> John Jessen
> (riveting the VS and rudder)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 12:04 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
>
>
> Well I am in the final phase of painting the wheel pants. It is time for
> another oil change. The oxy bottle will get purchased and hopefully
> installed before Osh. The carpet is going in soon.
>
> I don't have enough time with the wheel pants on to get some true numbers
> but Osh is coming up and should have some real numbers on a long trip like
> that. I appears that if you pull back on the power at you can get about
> 10.5 gal an hour at 125 kts.
> I still carry about 50 lbs in the baggage area when 2 up and pull it with
4.
> It really handles 4 people well. In fact I prefer 4 people.
> Myself, full fuel and 50 lbs in the back is fine. More trim and hold some
> back pressure for the flare. Keep the speed up. Full flaps on all
landings
> seems to work best. Slower speed at touch down. The tires look great.
Almost
> no wear at 42 hours. Everyone that has ridden says how quiet it is. I
have
> the single mufflers system. Even people standing next to it when I had the
> prop balanced said it was quite and that was running at 2300 RPM for 10
> seconds or so. The prop balance was a big help. I could feel it in the
> rudder peddles before. Can't wait to get to Osh. With it but I have a lot
of
> work to still do in 1 weekend and a few weeknights. After Osh. It will be
> almost done and I can get back to that
> lawn. Where was that mower? I saw it 21 months ago.... Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 11:10 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: N610RV News?
>
>
> Hey Randy, any more little tidbits of interesting info since the flyoff?
> Just wondering how things are going. Hope you are having a blast!
>
> I just need a little "builder boost". :)
>
> -Sean #40303 nearing end of flaps
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
| Subject: | Rudder Pedal Cable Attach |
We have an AeroTrim for both rudder and aileron. We love 'em. No matter
where your fuel or passengers are, whether your are climbing or descending,
you can get it trimmed out and hand's off.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Conti, Rick
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rudder Pedal Cable Attach
Speaking of pedals (rudder). Has anyone connected a rudder trim system
in a 10? If so, what method did you us?
Thank You
Rick Conti
office: 703-414-6141
cell: 571-215-6134
-----Original Message-----
From: Condrey, Bob (US SSA) [mailto:bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com]
Subject: RV10-List: Rudder Pedal Cable Attach
Randy,
What was the final solution that you used for the cable attach to the
pedals? I found reference to the issue but not the solution in either
the archives or on Tim's website.
Bob #40105
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdalton77" <jdalton77(at)comcast.net> |
I will be there Fri-Sun (29-31st). Would love to meet some you guys.
Mug shot attached.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel & Yoshie
Simmons
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oshkosh bound
I will be there for most of the show mug shot included will have some
with the RV-10 soon.
Noel RV-10 40091 paint
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Combs
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Oshkosh bound
Thursday would be a better night for me to get out for a dinner.
Count me in.
Mugshot is attached. I will have to be wearing a hat at the show
(Reason should be obvious!). I will be wandering around the avionics
and engine booths looking for stuff to put in the bird. Love to meet
any and all. Looking for a cure for this "Disease". Don't think there
is one. Oh Well!
I will be over at Van's booth at the time suggested by Tim.
Thanks, Tim for setting up the web page. Really useful!
Can't wait!
Jim Combs
#40192 - Fuselage
N312F Reserved
Jim Combs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Rudder Pedal Cable Attach |
Jesse,
Can you provide link or contact info for this?
Rick S.
N246RS
40185
Da Wings...waiting on Da Fuse...Sorry, in Chicago this week and next.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N610RV News? |
I LOVE the nitrous idea....I suppose I could always give them
extra dramamine. ;) I'm planning to put in rear seat movies,
but as a post-flying install. I definitely see your point
about the stops. Usually I can keep the stops with the kids
to under 30 minutes, but it does add to the trip. I didn't
care in the past because on a 1000 mile trip, I wanted to land
and get a weather radar picture, but, now I'll have that in
my cockpit.....so I may as well keep the range up and move
along.
Hey, post a shot or two of your trim system...would be
interesting to all.
Definitely look me up at OSH...can't wait to see your -10!
Tim
Jesse Saint wrote:
>
> One of the big issues for us on fuel burn vs. flight time is whether or not
> you will have to make a stop. If you are going 1,000 miles (yes, I am
> talking statue number as always, sorry), it would be better to back it off
> to wherever it is required to make it non-stop. Descending and buying fuel,
> and getting back in for another hour or two actually adds about and hour or
> two to the flight and might add more whining to the kids. You know, a
> little bit of nitros-oxide added to the rear seat passengers' oxygen would
> take care of most of the whining, but then I guess you are increasing your
> cost again. OH YEAH, invest in a DVD player and they can sit forever,
> right?
>
> IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE USE!
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse(at)itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org
> W: 352-465-4545
> C: 352-427-0285
> F: 815-377-3694
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 4:24 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: N610RV News?
>
>
> Keep it in perspective though......my Sundowner does 9-9.5 @
> 110-112 Kts. Who really cares what the fuel flow is when
> you pull it way back that far. Fuel flow is directly related
> to speed...and speed is distance and time.
>
> For instance, would you rather rent a plane for $50/hr
> that goes 100kts, or one that goes 150Kts for $75/hr
> if you were going on a 1000Nm trip?
>
> Do the math and sure, the fuel burn may be much higher
> on the $75/hr plane, but the cost of the flight will
> be identical, and you'll get there over 3 hours quicker.
>
> Sure, you can get some slight economies by pulling the power
> back...Van's charts show the range increase as you
> reduce to lower % of power, but, is it really that big
> of a difference in the big scheme of things? I myself
> would rather get there before the kids get whiny, and
> pay the extra couple bucks.
>
> As for Randy's performance numbers, I'm not at all
> concerned what the fuel flow is at 125kts. I'd
> be much more interested to know what it flows
> at 165, 175, and 185Kts.
>
> Tim
>
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
June 28, 2005 - July 14, 2005
RV10-Archive.digest.vol-am