RV10-Archive.digest.vol-ao

August 02, 2005 - August 16, 2005



      Inodyn apparently approached Vans about building a demonstrator aircraft
      with their turbine and Vans said they were not interested so you may
      have noticed that Inodyn then trotted over to Lancair where a mockup was
      on display.  I work with Allison gas turbines and frankly the published
      numbers from Inodyn seem pretty far off the mark.  Granted FADEC can
      make some noticeable improvements but it is not that magic!
      
      
      Well I have now entered the fantasy panel mode for the RV-10 as I fall
      to sleep, should be an interesting few years.
      
      
      Bruce Case
      616 South Madison Street
      Stoughton, WI. 53589
      telephone: 608-215-3776
      e-mail: pioneer(at)choiceonemail.com
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Rudder Trailing Edge
Date: Aug 02, 2005
Seems nobody has had this "hook" problem on the rudder trailing edge, or at least no one has a solution. Tim responded with a "good luck," but this is about as quiet as I've seen the list about a building issue. Out of 400+ I can't be alone in this! If I am, there should be an award of some kind... I've sent an email to Van's and will follow that with a phone call. Since I'm in OR, and am building within 10 mi of their headquarters, I may actually take the rudder to them and let them look at it before doing anything. However, for those experienced builders out there, what do you think of this as a plan: I, as best as possible, mark the beginning of the bend, which is located at the rudder top, and I think about 5-7 rivets down, maybe a few more. I then start about 3 rivets below this mark and begin to do the final setting using the mushroom set, working my way, rivet by rivet, up the rudder towards the mark. After each rivet is final set, I stop and sight down the rudder. As soon as it straightens out, if it does, I stop doing one rivet after the other in succession and begin staggering. I'm not sure what to do if the bend remains! Drill out the rivets to release the tension? Any thoughts would be most welcome and may be helpful to those who follow. Also, perhaps a suggestion for Tim's pages. No matter the method you use (per plans or as others have done with the length of angle iron), sight down the edge with the edge pointing to the ceiling. Don't stand the rudder upright and look at it with the edge pointing towards the wall. This is what I did, and I swear I never saw the bend until I sighted directly down the edge. Then it was obvious. Also, don't deviate from the plans in terms of partially setting every 5th (or randomly) rivet. I think I know when the bend occurred, and that was when I was testing how hard to drive the shop heads by setting about 3 in a row. I said to myself to stop and continue setting at random after I realized what I had done. I think it was at that point that it took the bend. Although because my sighting method was faulty, I never saw it until I was finished with all 59 trailing edge rivets. John Jessen #40328 Rudder ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rudder Trailing Edge
Date: Aug 02, 2005
John I will be at the airport tonight and I have a suggestion that worked for me. I should be there at about 6:00 or so. Randy -----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen Subject: RV10-List: Rudder Trailing Edge Seems nobody has had this "hook" problem on the rudder trailing edge, or at least no one has a solution. Tim responded with a "good luck," but this is about as quiet as I've seen the list about a building issue. Out of 400+ I can't be alone in this! If I am, there should be an award of some kind... I've sent an email to Van's and will follow that with a phone call. Since I'm in OR, and am building within 10 mi of their headquarters, I may actually take the rudder to them and let them look at it before doing anything. However, for those experienced builders out there, what do you think of this as a plan: I, as best as possible, mark the beginning of the bend, which is located at the rudder top, and I think about 5-7 rivets down, maybe a few more. I then start about 3 rivets below this mark and begin to do the final setting using the mushroom set, working my way, rivet by rivet, up the rudder towards the mark. After each rivet is final set, I stop and sight down the rudder. As soon as it straightens out, if it does, I stop doing one rivet after the other in succession and begin staggering. I'm not sure what to do if the bend remains! Drill out the rivets to release the tension? Any thoughts would be most welcome and may be helpful to those who follow. Also, perhaps a suggestion for Tim's pages. No matter the method you use (per plans or as others have done with the length of angle iron), sight down the edge with the edge pointing to the ceiling. Don't stand the rudder upright and look at it with the edge pointing towards the wall. This is what I did, and I swear I never saw the bend until I sighted directly down the edge. Then it was obvious. Also, don't deviate from the plans in terms of partially setting every 5th (or randomly) rivet. I think I know when the bend occurred, and that was when I was testing how hard to drive the shop heads by setting about 3 in a row. I said to myself to stop and continue setting at random after I realized what I had done. I think it was at that point that it took the bend. Although because my sighting method was faulty, I never saw it until I was finished with all 59 trailing edge rivets. John Jessen #40328 Rudder ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2005
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Color after Alodine
I just finished alodining my first batch of parts. I expected them to be a golden color, but they came out a coffee brown. I am using PPG Chemfil DX503. Did I not rinse the parts enough? Larry #356 http://rv10pilot.home.comcast.net/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2005
From: linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Color after Alodine
Larry, depending on where you got your alodine ..... that may be all you're going to get. Years ago you could buy liquid alodine that was potent .... and you got the golden color. Along comes the EPA and said chromium was harmful (isn't everything but pure air???) so the concentration was cut drastically. So the answer is to buy the powder and mix your own potent stuff. There's bunches of stuff in the archive. What I do with the pre-mix is spray it on the aluminum and wipe it around with a terry cloth rag (which will disintegrate after a while due to the acid) keeping the area wet. Then I let it dry. Hold on, no flames yet! Read the instructions on the bottle! Then I repeat the process again and instead of letting it dry, I wash with copious amounts of water. I still don't get the real golden color, but it's the best I can do. I'm buying some powder and will mix my own ..... and make whatever 'tubs' necessary to immerse my parts. For that golden color, I hope!!! Linn ..... workshop going up! Larry Rosen wrote: > > I just finished alodining my first batch of parts. I expected them to > be a golden color, but they came out a coffee brown. I am using PPG > Chemfil DX503. Did I not rinse the parts enough? > > Larry > #356 > http://rv10pilot.home.comcast.net/ > > -- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Color after Alodine
Date: Aug 02, 2005
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Hmm, don't know about the PPG stuff but if it's the same as the Eldorado then you may have left them in too long. Shouldn't hurt anything just check on them a little sooner with your next batch. The most I leave them dipped normally is around 5 minutes. I had a small part fall off the coat hanger into my dip tank and it was just beyond my reach. By the time I got it out (20 minutes or so) it was a medium brown. Washed it off and wiped off some of the residue and it was just fine. Michael Sausen -10 #352 wings -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen Subject: RV10-List: Color after Alodine I just finished alodining my first batch of parts. I expected them to be a golden color, but they came out a coffee brown. I am using PPG Chemfil DX503. Did I not rinse the parts enough? Larry #356 http://rv10pilot.home.comcast.net/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Color after Alodine
Date: Aug 02, 2005
You just left them in the alodine a bit too long... Cheers, Stein. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry Rosen Subject: RV10-List: Color after Alodine I just finished alodining my first batch of parts. I expected them to be a golden color, but they came out a coffee brown. I am using PPG Chemfil DX503. Did I not rinse the parts enough? Larry #356 http://rv10pilot.home.comcast.net/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rudder Trailing Edge
Date: Aug 02, 2005
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Pose the same question to Kent White "Tin Man" of Tin Man Tech. http://www.tinmantech.com/ Kent gave seven excellent seminars in Tent #21 over the OSH '05 run. He has thirty five years of experience solving these issues and is on record doing the aluminum on the late Jim Wright = Hughes Racer. You may get more mileage on his answer than at VANS. Just a thought. John - KUAO and still doing dirty laundry. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rudder Trailing Edge John I will be at the airport tonight and I have a suggestion that worked for me. I should be there at about 6:00 or so. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen Subject: RV10-List: Rudder Trailing Edge Seems nobody has had this "hook" problem on the rudder trailing edge, or at least no one has a solution. Tim responded with a "good luck," but this is about as quiet as I've seen the list about a building issue. Out of 400+ I can't be alone in this! If I am, there should be an award of some kind... I've sent an email to Van's and will follow that with a phone call. Since I'm in OR, and am building within 10 mi of their headquarters, I may actually take the rudder to them and let them look at it before doing anything. However, for those experienced builders out there, what do you think of this as a plan: I, as best as possible, mark the beginning of the bend, which is located at the rudder top, and I think about 5-7 rivets down, maybe a few more. I then start about 3 rivets below this mark and begin to do the final setting using the mushroom set, working my way, rivet by rivet, up the rudder towards the mark. After each rivet is final set, I stop and sight down the rudder. As soon as it straightens out, if it does, I stop doing one rivet after the other in succession and begin staggering. I'm not sure what to do if the bend remains! Drill out the rivets to release the tension? Any thoughts would be most welcome and may be helpful to those who follow. Also, perhaps a suggestion for Tim's pages. No matter the method you use (per plans or as others have done with the length of angle iron), sight down the edge with the edge pointing to the ceiling. Don't stand the rudder upright and look at it with the edge pointing towards the wall. This is what I did, and I swear I never saw the bend until I sighted directly down the edge. Then it was obvious. Also, don't deviate from the plans in terms of partially setting every 5th (or randomly) rivet. I think I know when the bend occurred, and that was when I was testing how hard to drive the shop heads by setting about 3 in a row. I said to myself to stop and continue setting at random after I realized what I had done. I think it was at that point that it took the bend. Although because my sighting method was faulty, I never saw it until I was finished with all 59 trailing edge rivets. John Jessen #40328 Rudder ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Windshield Defroster
Date: Aug 02, 2005
From: "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com>
Hello all, well I finally received my first ride in the factory RV-10 at Oshkosh. I will type up my thoughts but I was very impressed with the takeoff and climb performance as well as the slow flight characteristics. I also finalized my panel thoughts and it looks like were getting the Chelton system. I really spend some time at their booth and at Grand Rapids and decided the money was going to be worth it. Anyway, my real question is about windshield defrosters. Do you need one? I have seen guys just use some computer fans to blow air up to the windshield. So for all you current RV flyers, is this a problem? Do you need it? If so, what fans have do you recommend? Thanks. Scott Schmidt sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rudder Trailing Edge
Date: Aug 03, 2005
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
Hi John, What method did you use to build the TE - Vans method or the 'angle iron' method? Did you use proseal on the edges? How much hook is there? How much pressure did you use to set the rivets? I've completed the TEs on the rudder, elevators and ailerons using the following method: a. I used the angle iron back rivet setup per Mike Howe and Tim O. b. I alternated the rivets such that the manufactured heads are on both sides of the TE. c. I used drift punches to mandraulically set the rivets on the angle iron in a totally random order. This ensures that ALL the pounding is limited to the rivet, not the surrounding skin and AEX wedge. When using the flat (mushroom) set to finish the rivets, a fair bit of air pressure can be required. Too much time on a rivet and you can distort the AEX wedge (and cause a hook) d. Once the rivets are done on one side, flip it over and use the mushroom set to flush down the manufactured head (not too long) and again in a random order. e. repeat for the other side. I have used this technique both with and without proseal. I did not use proseal on the rudder - it came out fine. I used it on the elevators and ailerons and they came out perfect. I am a first time builder and not a pro - but a lot of trailing edges I have seen have smileys and recesses around the rivets indicating that the rivet (and surrounding area) have really been pounded. I think this is one of the reasons for waves and hooks in the TE If you can't live with it and need to fix it, it should be a simple matter of drilling the TE rivets. If the AEX is deformed get a new one. If you used proseal, the TE may be a little harder to separate but I have heard that a heat gun helps soften the proseal. Drilling out the TE rivets may sound like a major disaster but in reality it just takes time. I mislabeled the right aileron bottom skin and back rivetted all the stiffeners the wrong way round. I had to remove all 56 rivets and redo them - the result was excellent, but it added another 1.5 hours to my builders log :-<. If you can still sleep at night (without worrying about it), you can always put it aside and keep building. It's not going anywhere and you will have plenty of time to research possible solutions. You can always fix it later. Hope this helps a little, cheers, Ron #187 flaps -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Jessen Subject: RV10-List: Rudder Trailing Edge Seems nobody has had this "hook" problem on the rudder trailing edge, or at least no one has a solution. Tim responded with a "good luck," but this is about as quiet as I've seen the list about a building issue. Out of 400+ I can't be alone in this! If I am, there should be an award of some kind... I've sent an email to Van's and will follow that with a phone call. Since I'm in OR, and am building within 10 mi of their headquarters, I may actually take the rudder to them and let them look at it before doing anything. However, for those experienced builders out there, what do you think of this as a plan: I, as best as possible, mark the beginning of the bend, which is located at the rudder top, and I think about 5-7 rivets down, maybe a few more. I then start about 3 rivets below this mark and begin to do the final setting using the mushroom set, working my way, rivet by rivet, up the rudder towards the mark. After each rivet is final set, I stop and sight down the rudder. As soon as it straightens out, if it does, I stop doing one rivet after the other in succession and begin staggering. I'm not sure what to do if the bend remains! Drill out the rivets to release the tension? Any thoughts would be most welcome and may be helpful to those who follow. Also, perhaps a suggestion for Tim's pages. No matter the method you use (per plans or as others have done with the length of angle iron), sight down the edge with the edge pointing to the ceiling. Don't stand the rudder upright and look at it with the edge pointing towards the wall. This is what I did, and I swear I never saw the bend until I sighted directly down the edge. Then it was obvious. Also, don't deviate from the plans in terms of partially setting every 5th (or randomly) rivet. I think I know when the bend occurred, and that was when I was testing how hard to drive the shop heads by setting about 3 in a row. I said to myself to stop and continue setting at random after I realized what I had done. I think it was at that point that it took the bend. Although because my sighting method was faulty, I never saw it until I was finished with all 59 trailing edge rivets. John Jessen #40328 Rudder ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Specketer" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Aero trim
Date: Aug 02, 2005
I posted a copy of the aero trim literature on the pictures section of this list. Tim, can you add it to your website? Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2005
From: "Jim Combs" <jimc(at)mail.infra-read.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Trailing Edge
John, When you say you have a hook, how bad is it? Can you put a known straight edge on it and tell us how far off it is. Are you looking at 1/8" or is it more? In the end you are the one that will have to decide how bad it really is. I know that isn't much help at all. Jim Combs #40192 N312F ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com> Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 13:16:26 -0700 Seems nobody has had this "hook" problem on the rudder trailing edge, or at least no one has a solution. Tim responded with a "good luck," but this is about as quiet as I've seen the list about a building issue. Out of 400+ I can't be alone in this! If I am, there should be an award of some kind... I've sent an email to Van's and will follow that with a phone call. Since I'm in OR, and am building within 10 mi of their headquarters, I may actually take the rudder to them and let them look at it before doing anything. However, for those experienced builders out there, what do you think of this as a plan: I, as best as possible, mark the beginning of the bend, which is located at the rudder top, and I think about 5-7 rivets down, maybe a few more. I then start about 3 rivets below this mark and begin to do the final setting using the mushroom set, working my way, rivet by rivet, up the rudder towards the mark. After each rivet is final set, I stop and sight down the rudder. As soon as it straightens out, if it does, I stop doing one rivet after the other in succession and begin staggering. I'm not sure what to do if the bend remains! Drill out the rivets to release the tension? Any thoughts would be most welcome and may be helpful to those who follow. Also, perhaps a suggestion for Tim's pages. No matter the method you use (per plans or as others have done with the length of angle iron), sight down the edge with the edge pointing to the ceiling. Don't stand the rudder upright and look at it with the edge pointing towards the wall. This is what I did, and I swear I never saw the bend until I sighted directly down the edge. Then it was obvious. Also, don't deviate from the plans in terms of partially setting every 5th (or randomly) rivet. I think I know when the bend occurred, and that was when I was testing how hard to drive the shop heads by setting about 3 in a row. I said to myself to stop and continue setting at random after I realized what I had done. I think it was at that point that it took the bend. Although because my sighting method was faulty, I never saw it until I was finished with all 59 trailing edge rivets. John Jessen #40328 Rudder ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GenGrumpy(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 02, 2005
Subject: For Tim Olsen
Tim, how much did they charge you for the motor? Is it a zero time or rebuild? Do you have a name and phone number for them? Thanks John Miller 40404 empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2005
From: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu>
Subject: Re: Windshield Defroster
On my RV-6A I can divert the pilot's heat vent to the defroster hole on top of the glare shield. It's been very handy when the windshield fogs over. I'll do the same thing on my RV-10. Tim -- Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) RV-6A N47TD -- 740 hrs RV-10 #40059 under construction Scott Schmidt wrote: > Hello all, well I finally received my first ride in the factory RV-10 at > Oshkosh. I will type up my thoughts but I was very impressed with the > takeoff and climb performance as well as the slow flight > characteristics. I also finalized my panel thoughts and it looks like > were getting the Chelton system. I really spend some time at their > booth and at Grand Rapids and decided the money was going to be worth it. > > > > Anyway, my real question is about windshield defrosters. Do you need > one? I have seen guys just use some computer fans to blow air up to > the windshield. So for all you current RV flyers, is this a problem? > Do you need it? If so, what fans have do you recommend? > > Thanks. > > > > Scott Schmidt > > sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Aero trim
Hey Gary, I can't see the picture anywhere. can you email it to me? Gary Specketer wrote: > I posted a copy of the aero trim literature on the pictures section of > this list. Tim, can you add it to your website? > Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris" <toaster73(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Windshield Defroster
Date: Aug 02, 2005
Thats what I plan on doing, installing a diverter from the heating system up to the front edge of the windshield -just like an ole car without A/C. Chris L #40072 wings ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Lewis" <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Windshield Defroster > > On my RV-6A I can divert the pilot's heat vent to the defroster hole on > top of the glare shield. It's been very handy when the windshield fogs > over. I'll do the same thing on my RV-10. > > Tim > -- > Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) > RV-6A N47TD -- 740 hrs > RV-10 #40059 under construction > > Scott Schmidt wrote: >> Hello all, well I finally received my first ride in the factory RV-10 at >> Oshkosh. I will type up my thoughts but I was very impressed with the >> takeoff and climb performance as well as the slow flight characteristics. >> I also finalized my panel thoughts and it looks like were getting the >> Chelton system. I really spend some time at their booth and at Grand >> Rapids and decided the money was going to be worth it. >> >> Anyway, my real question is about windshield defrosters. Do you need >> one? I have seen guys just use some computer fans to blow air up to the >> windshield. So for all you current RV flyers, is this a problem? Do you >> need it? If so, what fans have do you recommend? >> >> Thanks. >> >> Scott Schmidt >> >> sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "brian bollaert" <bbollaert(at)comcast.net>
Subject: horizontal & vertical fairing
Date: Aug 02, 2005
For those of the group that are at the point of attaching the fairing between the horizontal & vertical , if you already have the horizontal stab on and tuned & don't want to remove it to do this job , i used a 90 degree on the drill with the 36 degree tap on the slow speed ( and you must be steady ) with oil Tim thanks for the great pics !! Brian Bollaert #40200 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2005
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder Trailing Edge
Run a string line down the trailing edge, Van's says to stay within 1/16" of an inch. I recommend playing with putting a dowel under the high spot of the hook which I interpret as a "bow" in the edge. Place the trailing edge with the bow deflection or as you look at it so, "it smiles not frowns at you" on a flat surface such as your back rivet plate. Put the dowel I find 3/4" or larger under the lowest part or top of the radius of the hook/bow. Take your time and work the piece by HAND, slowly applying pressure and moving the dowel as you go. The aluminum assembly is flexible and you will have to exceed what seems to be an amount that would make the edge go the other way to far...hence SLOW. I had a simlilar instance on my flap...very slight. Work the trailing edge with your hand pressure a little at a time a small wood block works well too...you can work it out. For those who have not had much experience manipulating aluminum it is very resilient, up to a point, it likes slow steady pressure to give way, push it to hard and fast or use brute force, it will snap, crack and split. With small pressures against the bend you should be able to work it out, More that 1/4" will take some finesse, post a photo, if your near Las Vegas I could show you the technique, I'll step out of a PC explaination and tell ya....go at it like it's your best gal....slow and easy....little at a time....it will work. Rick S. 40185 Waiting on the Fuse delivery ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2005
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Color after Alodine
Type of aluminum will affect the color as well...as long as it turned brown your OK. Alodine changes the molecular surface structure of the aluminum, color change equals chemical reaction equals your good to go!!! Rick S. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RAS" <deruiteraircraftservices(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Color after Alodine
Date: Aug 03, 2005
Hi Larry, You probabaly left the alodine on for too long. I'm not familiar with the brand you're using, but the trimite alodine in powder form only needs five minutes at 28C. Marcel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Rosen" <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> Subject: RV10-List: Color after Alodine > > I just finished alodining my first batch of parts. I expected them to be > a golden color, but they came out a coffee brown. I am using PPG Chemfil > DX503. Did I not rinse the parts enough? > > Larry > #356 > http://rv10pilot.home.comcast.net/ > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RAS" <deruiteraircraftservices(at)btinternet.com>
<42EFE487.60506(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Color after Alodine
Date: Aug 03, 2005
Hi, Letting alodine dry in without rinse and then alodine again will guaranteed get you a coffee brown color. Once is enough. Alodine is a chemical conversion coating, when the chemical conversion has taken place, it will not do it again. A better way of doing this is to get a tank of either plastic or stainless steel, and dip all your parts for 5 minutes, lift them out and then rinse with clean water, then air dry. I hope this helps, Marcel RV7 testing RV10 building both in alodine --- Original Message ----- From: "linn walters" <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Color after Alodine > > Larry, depending on where you got your alodine ..... that may be all > you're going to get. Years ago you could buy liquid alodine that was > potent .... and you got the golden color. Along comes the EPA and said > chromium was harmful (isn't everything but pure air???) so the > concentration was cut drastically. So the answer is to buy the powder and > mix your own potent stuff. There's bunches of stuff in the archive. > > What I do with the pre-mix is spray it on the aluminum and wipe it around > with a terry cloth rag (which will disintegrate after a while due to the > acid) keeping the area wet. Then I let it dry. Hold on, no flames yet! > Read the instructions on the bottle! Then I repeat the process again and > instead of letting it dry, I wash with copious amounts of water. I still > don't get the real golden color, but it's the best I can do. > > I'm buying some powder and will mix my own ..... and make whatever 'tubs' > necessary to immerse my parts. For that golden color, I hope!!! > Linn ..... workshop going up! > > Larry Rosen wrote: > >> >> I just finished alodining my first batch of parts. I expected them to be >> a golden color, but they came out a coffee brown. I am using PPG Chemfil >> DX503. Did I not rinse the parts enough? >> >> Larry >> #356 >> http://rv10pilot.home.comcast.net/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: RE: Trim Cable Brackets
Date: Aug 03, 2005
Take a magnet to either the nut or the plate. They are both supposed to be stainless, if the magnet attaches to one of the pieces then it was not stainless.... I had 4 of these in 2 kits.... 1 was all stainless and you could not break it, 3 had a ferrous steel plate and you could bend it and it would break shortly thereafter... I called Van's, they seemed surprised to hear this, but had no problem sending me free replacements.... I think you should all check yours out. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Panning Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Trim Cable Brackets --> I had one of the nuts break off and I picked up two replacements from Van's. The new ones are double welded (both sides of the nut edge) and seem much stronger. The original ones were welded only on one edge of the nut in a thin line. I have not replaced them yet but will be investigating attaching via nut plates instead of rivets. Van's thought this was ok when I talked to them - provided there is enough room (attach plate area is small) I recall they also mentioned that you can rotate it in place with the nut riveted to the access panel but only by a bend in the control cable to the limits. If you build another solution, I suggest leaving space for nut plates to attach - This would make it much easier to adjust during rigging and also for future tweaking or inspection. Eric ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: RE: Trim Cable Brackets
Date: Aug 03, 2005
Trust me, it was not stainless..... -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ned Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Trim Cable Brackets There are several alloys of stainless steel that are magnetic > --> > > Take a magnet to either the nut or the plate. They are both supposed > to be stainless, if the magnet attaches to one of the pieces then it > was not stainless.... > > I had 4 of these in 2 kits.... 1 was all stainless and you could not > break it, 3 had a ferrous steel plate and you could bend it and it > would break shortly thereafter... I called Van's, they seemed > surprised to hear this, but had no problem sending me free > replacements.... I think you should all check yours out. -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric > Panning > Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 9:57 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Trim Cable Brackets > > > --> > > > I had one of the nuts break off and I picked up two replacements from > Van's. The new ones are double welded (both sides of the nut edge) and > seem much stronger. The original ones were welded only on one edge of > the nut in a thin line. > > I have not replaced them yet but will be investigating attaching via > nut plates instead of rivets. Van's thought this was ok when I talked > to them - provided there is enough room (attach plate area is small) > > I recall they also mentioned that you can rotate it in > place with the nut riveted to the access panel but > only by a bend in the control cable to the limits. > > If you build another solution, I suggest leaving space > for nut plates to attach - This would make it much > easier to adjust during rigging and also for future > tweaking or inspection. > > Eric > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Rudder Trailing Edge
Date: Aug 03, 2005
Thanks, everyone, for your input. I will go to the hanger tonight and see if I can get a measurement on how bad the bowing actually is and will report back. I didn't do anything last night just so I could calm down. Went out instead and had dinner with some distant relatives who were in town visiting. Stayed away from the topic of airplanes. Van's answered my question to them on this topic thusly... = = = = = = John, Getting a slight bend in the trailing edge is only an esthetic thing not an aerodynamic thing. If the bend is slight, I would leave it alone. You will do more harm than good drilling out the rivets and breaking loose the tank sealant. It may get straighter when you finish riveting. If it doesn't and you can live with a slight bow, just move on. Bruce Reynolds brucer(at)vansaircraft.com = = = = = I replied with another question, namely wouldn't the bow effect trim? We'll see what comes back. John Jessen (#328, Rudder) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rudder Trailing Edge Run a string line down the trailing edge, Van's says to stay within 1/16" of an inch. I recommend playing with putting a dowel under the high spot of the hook which I interpret as a "bow" in the edge. Place the trailing edge with the bow deflection or as you look at it so, "it smiles not frowns at you" on a flat surface such as your back rivet plate. Put the dowel I find 3/4" or larger under the lowest part or top of the radius of the hook/bow. Take your time and work the piece by HAND, slowly applying pressure and moving the dowel as you go. The aluminum assembly is flexible and you will have to exceed what seems to be an amount that would make the edge go the other way to far...hence SLOW. I had a simlilar instance on my flap...very slight. Work the trailing edge with your hand pressure a little at a time a small wood block works well too...you can work it out. For those who have not had much experience manipulating aluminum it is very resilient, up to a point, it likes s! low steady pressure to give way, push it to hard and fast or use brute force, it will snap, crack and split. With small pressures against the bend you should be able to work it out, More that 1/4" will take some finesse, post a photo, if your near Las Vegas I could show you the technique, I'll step out of a PC explaination and tell ya....go at it like it's your best gal....slow and easy....little at a time....it will work. Rick S. 40185 Waiting on the Fuse delivery ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rudder Trailing Edge
Date: Aug 03, 2005
He already answered the trim question by saying it is "not an aerodynamic thing." I'd be surprised if you get another response let alone a different one. ----------------------------------------------------- Getting a slight bend in the trailing edge is only an esthetic thing not an aerodynamic thing. If the bend is slight, I would leave it alone. You will do more harm than good drilling out the rivets and breaking loose the tank sealant. It may get straighter when you finish riveting. If it doesn't and you can live with a slight bow, just move on. Bruce Reynolds brucer(at)vansaircraft.com I replied with another question, namely wouldn't the bow effect trim? We'll see what comes back. John Jessen (#328, Rudder) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Exterior lighting choices
Date: Aug 03, 2005
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
0.03 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_HTML BODY": rv10-list(at)matronics.com Ok, I'm ordering accessories for the wings so I have them when I need them. Got the wing kit for Rob's AOA system, ordered the Duckworks HID and the aileron trim ($275 in case anyone is wondering) from Van's. Still need to order the pitot tube, probably be the Gretz. Now I'm trying to decide on who to use for my strobes/LED nav lights. Whelen is out because of the cost. So this leaves me; Aeroflash, CreativAir, and GS-Air. Of course none of them were at Airventure. First question, how many people out there experienced any problems with the strobes being powered from a central power supply? If I end up getting strobes with a central supply I will probably run the power leads in a dedicated conduit as far away from the other leads, including the Archer Nav coax, as possible. I would prefer strobes run from local power supplies but Aeroflash is the only option of the three for this and I still need to price them out. I'll probably get the Aeroflash for the tail strobe either way but I need to check the flange dimensions so I can make sure it fit's ok. Does anyone have any preference between GS-Air or Creativ-Air? They are both similar and pretty much the same cost. Anyone currently using any of the above that can give us a pirep? Michael Sausen -10 #352 wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "brian bollaert" <bbollaert(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Exterior lighting choices
Date: Aug 03, 2005
Hello Micheal: my exp is only with gs-air owners name is geovani , i have ordered wing position & strob lights & the tail strob and position he has been very good to deal with on my part , i am shure that some of the others are good also just don't have the exp . Brian Bollaert #40200 ----- Original Message ----- From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen) To: 0.03 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_HTML BODY : rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 2:16 PM Subject: RV10-List: Exterior lighting choices Ok, I'm ordering accessories for the wings so I have them when I need them. Got the wing kit for Rob's AOA system, ordered the Duckworks HID and the aileron trim ($275 in case anyone is wondering) from Van's. Still need to order the pitot tube, probably be the Gretz. Now I'm trying to decide on who to use for my strobes/LED nav lights. Whelen is out because of the cost. So this leaves me; Aeroflash, CreativAir, and GS-Air. Of course none of them were at Airventure. First question, how many people out there experienced any problems with the strobes being powered from a central power supply? If I end up getting strobes with a central supply I will probably run the power leads in a dedicated conduit as far away from the other leads, including the Archer Nav coax, as possible. I would prefer strobes run from local power supplies but Aeroflash is the only option of the three for this and I still need to price them out. I'll probably get the Aeroflash for the tail strobe either way but I need to check the flange dimensions so I can make sure it fit's ok. Does anyone have any preference between GS-Air or Creativ-Air? They are both similar and pretty much the same cost. Anyone currently using any of the above that can give us a pirep? Michael Sausen -10 #352 wings ________________________________________________________________________________ ;
Date: Aug 03, 2005
From: Robert <retiredpilot03-serv(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: IO540 experimental engine
Hey Guys, Just received this link through the SERV (Southeast RV Squadron) site. The first of many I hope: http://www.mattituck.com/tmx540.htm Robert Vinroot #40343 (fuselage) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 04, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: IO540 experimental engine
No C'mon Robert....we don't need to be spreading that kind of news around...it's only going to hurt the feelings of people like me who just got a rebuilt engine for less than $1,000 less. If you see any more of these low-priced new engines, just keep them to yourself. ** Just kidding, of course ** ;) Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Robert wrote: > > Hey Guys, > > Just received this link through the SERV > (Southeast RV Squadron) site. The first of many I > hope: > > http://www.mattituck.com/tmx540.htm > > Robert Vinroot > #40343 (fuselage) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Rudder Trailing Edge
Date: Aug 04, 2005
Well, long story short, the trailing edge of the rudder is now straight. For those who have not yet gotten to the rudder or who might run across this on other trailing edges, don't sweat it as much as I did. It's pretty easy to straighten out. First of all, my bow was at the top of the rudder. Laying a yard long straight edge on the side of the rudder from where the bow turned away, there was a 3/16 to 1/4 inch gap between the edge of the rule and the edge of the rudder. The bow in the trailing edge actually began 10 rivets down the rudder from the top. I placed a mark on that rivet and set up the mushroom rivet set to do the final rivet setting per the plans. I began three rivets down from the mark, the 13th or 14th rivet down from the top, setting each rivet and working my way up to the top, not skipping around at all. The intent was to move up the row of rivets until the edge straightened out, if it did, and only then begin random setting. It worked just fine. After setting about five rivets the bow was almost gone. One more rivet did the trick. I then set the rest of the rivets in a pseudo random fashion, checking the edge every fifth rivet. My advice to those moving towards this part of the plans is to check out how the folks were able to build their trailing edge using a long piece of angle iron as a back rivet plate for the entire edge. Plus I'd alternate the direction of the rivets. That has got to help keep the forces balanced. I liked using the proseal, but it does slow you down while it dries. Of course there are so many other things to do that you can easily put the rudder aside for two days. Again, many thanks for the positive and helpful suggestions. HS next. Well, almost. John Jessen #328 Rudder -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rudder Trailing Edge Thanks, everyone, for your input. I will go to the hanger tonight and see if I can get a measurement on how bad the bowing actually is and will report back. I didn't do anything last night just so I could calm down. Went out instead and had dinner with some distant relatives who were in town visiting. Stayed away from the topic of airplanes. Van's answered my question to them on this topic thusly... = = = = = = John, Getting a slight bend in the trailing edge is only an esthetic thing not an aerodynamic thing. If the bend is slight, I would leave it alone. You will do more harm than good drilling out the rivets and breaking loose the tank sealant. It may get straighter when you finish riveting. If it doesn't and you can live with a slight bow, just move on. Bruce Reynolds brucer(at)vansaircraft.com = = = = = I replied with another question, namely wouldn't the bow effect trim? We'll see what comes back. John Jessen (#328, Rudder) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rudder Trailing Edge Run a string line down the trailing edge, Van's says to stay within 1/16" of an inch. I recommend playing with putting a dowel under the high spot of the hook which I interpret as a "bow" in the edge. Place the trailing edge with the bow deflection or as you look at it so, "it smiles not frowns at you" on a flat surface such as your back rivet plate. Put the dowel I find 3/4" or larger under the lowest part or top of the radius of the hook/bow. Take your time and work the piece by HAND, slowly applying pressure and moving the dowel as you go. The aluminum assembly is flexible and you will have to exceed what seems to be an amount that would make the edge go the other way to far...hence SLOW. I had a simlilar instance on my flap...very slight. Work the trailing edge with your hand pressure a little at a time a small wood block works well too...you can work it out. For those who have not had much experience manipulating aluminum it is very resilient, up to a point, it likes s! low steady pressure to give way, push it to hard and fast or use brute force, it will snap, crack and split. With small pressures against the bend you should be able to work it out, More that 1/4" will take some finesse, post a photo, if your near Las Vegas I could show you the technique, I'll step out of a PC explaination and tell ya....go at it like it's your best gal....slow and easy....little at a time....it will work. Rick S. 40185 Waiting on the Fuse delivery ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: IO540 experimental engine
Date: Aug 04, 2005
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
This sounds suspiciously like the Lycoming announced engine at EAA. Glad to see they really aren't selling it for 38k. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: IO540 experimental engine No C'mon Robert....we don't need to be spreading that kind of news around...it's only going to hurt the feelings of people like me who just got a rebuilt engine for less than $1,000 less. If you see any more of these low-priced new engines, just keep them to yourself. ** Just kidding, of course ** ;) Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Robert wrote: > --> > > Hey Guys, > > Just received this link through the SERV (Southeast RV Squadron) site. > The first of many I > hope: > > http://www.mattituck.com/tmx540.htm > > Robert Vinroot > #40343 (fuselage) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy's Abros mail" <randy(at)abros.com>
Subject: Flap adjustment
Date: Aug 04, 2005
I received the information from Ken Kruger on the full up position of the flaps. The flaps trailing edge should be up 3/16" above the fuse in the full up position. My left flap was in that position but the right flap hit before the flap would get that high. You can either deform the leading edge a little or take some material off of the rear spar doublers to get it to raise more. I have readjusted the ailerons to be even with the flaps in the now full up position. I have test frown the plane but not speed tested it yet. I will keep you posted as to the changes. Randy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 04, 2005
From: Kent Forsythe <matronix.rv10(at)4sythe.com>
Subject: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot
Does anyone have any experience with the Blue Mountain EFIS (Lite or Sport) and the autopilot option that they also sell? Compared to stand-alone autopilots, the addon to the Blue Mountain seems very low priced given the advertised capabilities (ie. two axis, GPS flight plan tracking, etc.). I'm curious if anyone knows any drawbacks of the system or has experience they'd like to share. At a first look, it seems as though you could get the EFIS/Lite and the autopilot complete with servos for around $6,000. Any help would be greatly appreciated. PS. Randy D., it was great getting to meet you and your wife Monday at OSH. Your 10 looks great. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 04, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Alternator Physical Size for the -10
Hey guys, I inquired with Randy about how physically big his alternator was. He had a larger one but ended up getting a smaller one due to clearance issues. At OSH I found a larger and smaller one that I liked from the same company (more on that later). They made a 70A that was pretty much the same size as a car alternator, and a 60A that was smaller. They said the RV's often have clearance issues with the larger alternators, but didn't know if that was true about the -10. I had hoped to get the larger one, not for the capacity, but because it turns over 1000 RPM slower and would run cooler. Can anyone who's fit their cowl verify what they have for size and how it fits? There were 2 measurements that were kind of critical. 1) The alternator pulley diameter, and 2) the distance from the large pulley on the flywheel to the furthest out point on the pulley on the alternator. If anyone has a convenient way to measure these, it would be great to post the distances. When I find out which will fit, I'll post some specs and info so the question is easier to answer in the future. Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "stevenflys1(at)juno.com" <stevenflys1(at)juno.com>
Date: Aug 04, 2005
Subject: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot
I saw a Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot on E-bay a few months back. I e-mailed the gentleman selling the set. After several e-mails and some badgering he finally admitted that the attitude indicator was too slow matching the turns/climbs/etc with the steam gauge gyroscope (there is a word for this but I can't think of it without my morning coffee). He also admitted that the autopilot would porpoise to the point that he could not use it regularly. He said the Blue Mountain has the best graphics, but beyond that the system needs work to be useful. That was the reason he yanked it out of his airplane and re-did his panel. Again, this was probably six months ago so they might have improved their product. I personally will pass after his review. Hope that helps, Steven J Morris Wannabe builder ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Alternator Physical Size for the -10
Date: Aug 04, 2005
From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com>
Good point. If anyone has already fitted a B&C 60A alternator, chime in on how the fit is. I'm presuming it's fine . . . I hope! TDT 40025 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: Alternator Physical Size for the -10 Hey guys, I inquired with Randy about how physically big his alternator was. He had a larger one but ended up getting a smaller one due to clearance issues. At OSH I found a larger and smaller one that I liked from the same company (more on that later). They made a 70A that was pretty much the same size as a car alternator, and a 60A that was smaller. They said the RV's often have clearance issues with the larger alternators, but didn't know if that was true about the -10. I had hoped to get the larger one, not for the capacity, but because it turns over 1000 RPM slower and would run cooler. Can anyone who's fit their cowl verify what they have for size and how it fits? There were 2 measurements that were kind of critical. 1) The alternator pulley diameter, and 2) the distance from the large pulley on the flywheel to the furthest out point on the pulley on the alternator. If anyone has a convenient way to measure these, it would be great to post the distances. When I find out which will fit, I'll post some specs and info so the question is easier to answer in the future. Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark & Kelly" <eyedocs1(at)swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot
Date: Aug 04, 2005
Kent, I did alot of the research you are doing now a while back. These are a few of my observations. (Take them for what they're worth!) PROS: --Incredible terrain display, especially around mountainous areas. --Cost is less than the Cheltons with the smaller models CONS: --At last check, the Lite units don't display terrain. (Might want to check my facts on this one). I think terrain only displays on the Sport and the EFIS One. --There is no runway display on the PFD (Deal killer for me!) --The AP has no trim sensing, nor auto trim adustment. --No Alititude Pre-Select on AP Pre-Oshkosh, I had definitely decided on the Chelton units. I forget who it was, but one of the custom panel designers had an OP Technologies EFIS in an RV-10 panel. I had never heard of this company, (even thought I thought I knew EVERYTHING about glass!) but you may want to check them out. They have two display sizes, 10.4 & 8.4. The cost is a little less than the Cheltons, and they have approaches, etc., but I am not sure of the functionality and how they integrate with the Tru-Trak AP's. With the Cheltons coupled with GPS Veritical Steering on the AP, you can do a hands off approach (ILS-like) to any runway with or w/o an actual approach procedure. I am still 90% sure that I am going with the Cheltons. Hope this helps, Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kent Forsythe" <matronix.rv10(at)4sythe.com> Subject: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot > > Does anyone have any experience with the Blue Mountain EFIS (Lite or > Sport) and the autopilot option that they also sell? Compared to > stand-alone autopilots, the addon to the Blue Mountain seems very low > priced given the advertised capabilities (ie. two axis, GPS flight plan > tracking, etc.). > > I'm curious if anyone knows any drawbacks of the system or has experience > they'd like to share. At a first look, it seems as though you could get > the EFIS/Lite and the autopilot complete with servos for around $6,000. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > PS. Randy D., it was great getting to meet you and your wife Monday at > OSH. Your 10 looks great. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot
Date: Aug 04, 2005
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
I like the OP units but they are like the BMA stuff, not quite there. I'm still holding out to see what happens over the next year but at the moment I am leaning towards the Chelton's myself (Stein & Tim's fault) but if I were to go with the BMA I would still go with a TruTrak for AP. Something about the old saying of all your eggs in one basket and the fact that BMA is still quite dodgy when it comes to straight answers. They also have no problem taking shots at their competitors and skewing the facts. Incidentally, I would expect to see the Chelton terrain depiction greatly enhanced in the coming year. I'm not going to bash BMA, been there done that, but I will say that my profile is 1000NM flights in any reasonable weather and I just can't trust BMA at this point with hard IFR flying. I may use the BMA lite as a backup ADI/EHSI or copilot display though. Michael Sausen -10 #352 wings -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark & Kelly Subject: Re: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot Kent, I did alot of the research you are doing now a while back. These are a few of my observations. (Take them for what they're worth!) PROS: --Incredible terrain display, especially around mountainous areas. --Cost is less than the Cheltons with the smaller models CONS: --At last check, the Lite units don't display terrain. (Might want to check my facts on this one). I think terrain only displays on the Sport and the EFIS One. --There is no runway display on the PFD (Deal killer for me!) --The AP has no trim sensing, nor auto trim adustment. --No Alititude Pre-Select on AP Pre-Oshkosh, I had definitely decided on the Chelton units. I forget who it was, but one of the custom panel designers had an OP Technologies EFIS in an RV-10 panel. I had never heard of this company, (even thought I thought I knew EVERYTHING about glass!) but you may want to check them out. They have two display sizes, 10.4 & 8.4. The cost is a little less than the Cheltons, and they have approaches, etc., but I am not sure of the functionality and how they integrate with the Tru-Trak AP's. With the Cheltons coupled with GPS Veritical Steering on the AP, you can do a hands off approach (ILS-like) to any runway with or w/o an actual approach procedure. I am still 90% sure that I am going with the Cheltons. Hope this helps, Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kent Forsythe" <matronix.rv10(at)4sythe.com> Subject: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot > > Does anyone have any experience with the Blue Mountain EFIS (Lite or > Sport) and the autopilot option that they also sell? Compared to > stand-alone autopilots, the addon to the Blue Mountain seems very low > priced given the advertised capabilities (ie. two axis, GPS flight plan > tracking, etc.). > > I'm curious if anyone knows any drawbacks of the system or has experience > they'd like to share. At a first look, it seems as though you could get > the EFIS/Lite and the autopilot complete with servos for around $6,000. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > PS. Randy D., it was great getting to meet you and your wife Monday at > OSH. Your 10 looks great. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 04, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot
Kent, I didn't want to jump the gun on this, but it sounds like you need some info so I'll give you my work-in-progress. http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/theory/ I did really look hard at the BMA stuff at OSH 2004, but after some poking questions at them, I dropped that idea completely. From reviews at that time, the AP was not very stable, but that may have been fixed. The bigger issues are the capabilities that it does NOT have. Sure, you can stick in a flight plan and fly it, but there are no approaches in the thing (** My info is rusty and a year old, so check it out for your self of course), so you can't fly any approaches with it. At the time, they also couldn't fly the approaches loaded into a GNS480, (or perhaps at least the vertical component), so that really tossed it out the window. My advice is to have someone who has good IFR experience (if you dont' have any) help you come up with your requirements and then plug them with some very hard and firm questions that you want answers to. I think you'll find that from a functional standpoint, they're lacking considerably if you want a good EFIS for IFR ops. Grand Rapids would be a much better choice, and of course, there's Chelton. Also, as a side note, once I finish the above page, I plan to give a good run-down of how I picked Chelton. It's actually very interesting/educational to see how you can actually trim some components and costs out, buy paying more for those boxes. They're definitely not for everyone, but anyone looking at a couple of nice and expensive screens will stand to benefit from hashing it over. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Current project: Fuselage Kent Forsythe wrote: > > > Does anyone have any experience with the Blue Mountain EFIS (Lite or > Sport) and the autopilot option that they also sell? Compared to > stand-alone autopilots, the addon to the Blue Mountain seems very low > priced given the advertised capabilities (ie. two axis, GPS flight > plan tracking, etc.). > > I'm curious if anyone knows any drawbacks of the system or has > experience they'd like to share. At a first look, it seems as > though you could get the EFIS/Lite and the autopilot complete with > servos for around $6,000. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > PS. Randy D., it was great getting to meet you and your wife Monday > at OSH. Your 10 looks great. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Exterior lighting choices - followup
Date: Aug 04, 2005
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
If anyone is interested here is what I decided on: - CreativAir's 3 strobe kit: <http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath27&products_id36> - Whelen tail strobe/position from Vans as it seems to be the only one that fits the small spot in the fairing: http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident1123168358-134-558 &browselighting&producta555/500light. - Bill Dubes rectangular LED Nav lights: http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath22&products_id61 The LED light on the CreativAir's sight doesn't list the assembled version so I have an email into Bill Vondane to find out if he just forgot to add it. I can always get the assembled version direct from Bill Dube for $5 less. Grand total for this will be around $740 without shipping. The equivalent Whelen system from Van's (System 6) using conventional nav lights is $780. So I only save $40 but I get a, hopefully, more reliable system that uses less power. Michael Sausen -10 #352 wings ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Subject: RV10-List: Exterior lighting choices Ok, I'm ordering accessories for the wings so I have them when I need them. Got the wing kit for Rob's AOA system, ordered the Duckworks HID and the aileron trim ($275 in case anyone is wondering) from Van's. Still need to order the pitot tube, probably be the Gretz. Now I'm trying to decide on who to use for my strobes/LED nav lights. Whelen is out because of the cost. So this leaves me; Aeroflash, CreativAir, and GS-Air. Of course none of them were at Airventure. First question, how many people out there experienced any problems with the strobes being powered from a central power supply? If I end up getting strobes with a central supply I will probably run the power leads in a dedicated conduit as far away from the other leads, including the Archer Nav coax, as possible. I would prefer strobes run from local power supplies but Aeroflash is the only option of the three for this and I still need to price them out. I'll probably get the Aeroflash for the tail strobe either way but I need to check the flange dimensions so I can make sure it fit's ok. Does anyone have any preference between GS-Air or Creativ-Air? They are both similar and pretty much the same cost. Anyone currently using any of the above that can give us a pirep? Michael Sausen -10 #352 wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 04, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Alternator Physical Size for the -10
From what I remember at OSH with using my hand as a rough gauge, the B&C 60A was almost identical to the 60A from this other place. (Plane-Power) http://www.plane-power.com They include lots of stuff, including a combined internal regulator and crowbar OVP. They have both FAA/PMA models and experimental models. I was impressed to hear that they also went through the full FAA/PMA process before offering an experimental version as well. Considering that I plan to add a backup alternator, I'm seriously considering dropping the B&C idea as my primary, as that would cost me maybe $850+ for my alternator/regulator, whereas this one would cost something more like $325. At least that's where I'm leaning today. They claim that for OSH next year they plan to have out their own aux. alternator for the vac. pump pad too, so I may just not add one this year and add one next. Tim Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Current project: Fuselage Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote: > > > Good point. If anyone has already fitted a B&C 60A alternator, chime in on how the fit is. I'm presuming it's fine . . . I hope! > > TDT > 40025 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 11:29 AM > To: RV10 > Subject: RV10-List: Alternator Physical Size for the -10 > > > > Hey guys, > > I inquired with Randy about how physically big his alternator > was. He had a larger one but ended up getting a smaller one > due to clearance issues. > > At OSH I found a larger and smaller one that I liked > from the same company (more on that later). They made > a 70A that was pretty much the same size as a car alternator, > and a 60A that was smaller. They said the RV's often have > clearance issues with the larger alternators, but didn't > know if that was true about the -10. > > I had hoped to get the larger one, not for the capacity, but > because it turns over 1000 RPM slower and would run cooler. > > Can anyone who's fit their cowl verify what they have for size > and how it fits? There were 2 measurements that were kind of > critical. 1) The alternator pulley diameter, and 2) the distance > from the large pulley on the flywheel to the furthest out point > on the pulley on the alternator. > > If anyone has a convenient way to measure these, it would be > great to post the distances. When I find out which will fit, > I'll post some specs and info so the question is easier to answer > in the future. > Tim > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Alternator Physical Size for the -10
Date: Aug 04, 2005
http://scottandranae.smugmug.com/gallery/518426/2/22210529 http://scottandranae.smugmug.com/gallery/565366/1/23565302 http://scottandranae.smugmug.com/gallery/565366/6/27297933 Here are a couple of pictures of the B&C alternator. No problems. It fits perfect. I also have the cowling fit now and the clearance seems fine. It is still close (maybe around an inch) but I don't think there is any difference between it and the Van's model. There is one thing from B&C that did need some modification. I put on their remote oil filter adapter and the oil filter would interfere with the engine mount. They make an extension (I believe it was the 0.110" extension) and that worked perfect. http://scottandranae.smugmug.com/gallery/518426/3/25522637 (before) http://scottandranae.smugmug.com/gallery/565366/5/27297876 (after) http://scottandranae.smugmug.com/gallery/565366/5/27297882 (after) Scott Schmidt Cell 801-319-3094 sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com -----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternator Physical Size for the -10 Good point. If anyone has already fitted a B&C 60A alternator, chime in on how the fit is. I'm presuming it's fine . . . I hope! TDT 40025 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: Alternator Physical Size for the -10 Hey guys, I inquired with Randy about how physically big his alternator was. He had a larger one but ended up getting a smaller one due to clearance issues. At OSH I found a larger and smaller one that I liked from the same company (more on that later). They made a 70A that was pretty much the same size as a car alternator, and a 60A that was smaller. They said the RV's often have clearance issues with the larger alternators, but didn't know if that was true about the -10. I had hoped to get the larger one, not for the capacity, but because it turns over 1000 RPM slower and would run cooler. Can anyone who's fit their cowl verify what they have for size and how it fits? There were 2 measurements that were kind of critical. 1) The alternator pulley diameter, and 2) the distance from the large pulley on the flywheel to the furthest out point on the pulley on the alternator. If anyone has a convenient way to measure these, it would be great to post the distances. When I find out which will fit, I'll post some specs and info so the question is easier to answer in the future. Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot
Date: Aug 04, 2005
From: "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com>
I have spent way too much time researching this as well. EFIS From what I have found the only two EFIS systems I would recommend are the Chelton and the Grand Rapids. For a basic system I would also recommend the Dynon. Autopilot The only system out there is the TruTrak. Here are the configurations I would recommend for a great IFR aircraft All would use the TruTrak Digiflight II with Vertical GPS steering 1. EFIS - Chelton Comm - SL-30 or SL-40 (both if you don't want to add the GPS) IFR GPS (not really needed) - GNS 480 or GNS 430 (I will go with the GNS 430 since it is only $3000 more than the SL-30 and has so much more functionality) 2. EFIS - Grand Rapids Comm - SL-30 or SL-40 IFR GPS - GNS 480 (The GNS 480 is a great IFR GPS and I would recommend it for all the Victor airway data that is in it since the Grand Rapids does not currently have it. If you have a Chelton, you don't need it because the Chelton does everything!!!!) 3. EFIS - Dynon Comm - SL-30 or SL-40 IFR GPS - GNS 480 I don't want to get into why I wouldn't recommend the Blue Mountain too much but they have had problems and their autopilot is not even close to the TruTrak especially when linked to the Cheltons. Chelton has a training DVD you should get from Direct-2-Avionics if you are considering the Chelton. It will push you over the edge. When I ran all the numbers, the Chelton system was $8000 more than the Grand Rapids system in my panel since the autopilot was free at Oshkosh, and I could go to a GNS 430 instead of the 480. It is a big chunk of change up front but in the end I know it will be worth it. So what else did I find at Oshkosh that was cool? - For weather I am going with the new Motion Computing tablet PC that is 9" X 7" and will run the WxWorks software with the Bluetooth GPS. It won't be panel mounted but I am going to try to rig up something nice. - MT has a cool chrome spinner for the MT prop Scott Schmidt sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot Kent, I didn't want to jump the gun on this, but it sounds like you need some info so I'll give you my work-in-progress. http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/theory/ I did really look hard at the BMA stuff at OSH 2004, but after some poking questions at them, I dropped that idea completely. From reviews at that time, the AP was not very stable, but that may have been fixed. The bigger issues are the capabilities that it does NOT have. Sure, you can stick in a flight plan and fly it, but there are no approaches in the thing (** My info is rusty and a year old, so check it out for your self of course), so you can't fly any approaches with it. At the time, they also couldn't fly the approaches loaded into a GNS480, (or perhaps at least the vertical component), so that really tossed it out the window. My advice is to have someone who has good IFR experience (if you dont' have any) help you come up with your requirements and then plug them with some very hard and firm questions that you want answers to. I think you'll find that from a functional standpoint, they're lacking considerably if you want a good EFIS for IFR ops. Grand Rapids would be a much better choice, and of course, there's Chelton. Also, as a side note, once I finish the above page, I plan to give a good run-down of how I picked Chelton. It's actually very interesting/educational to see how you can actually trim some components and costs out, buy paying more for those boxes. They're definitely not for everyone, but anyone looking at a couple of nice and expensive screens will stand to benefit from hashing it over. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Current project: Fuselage Kent Forsythe wrote: > > > Does anyone have any experience with the Blue Mountain EFIS (Lite or > Sport) and the autopilot option that they also sell? Compared to > stand-alone autopilots, the addon to the Blue Mountain seems very low > priced given the advertised capabilities (ie. two axis, GPS flight > plan tracking, etc.). > > I'm curious if anyone knows any drawbacks of the system or has > experience they'd like to share. At a first look, it seems as > though you could get the EFIS/Lite and the autopilot complete with > servos for around $6,000. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > PS. Randy D., it was great getting to meet you and your wife Monday > at OSH. Your 10 looks great. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 04, 2005
From: Kent Forsythe <matronix.rv10(at)4sythe.com>
Subject: Thanks on the EFIS Info
Thanks everyone that had input on the EFIS question I posted. Clearly, it sounds as though you get what you pay for. I had not heard any of this feedback before on the Blue Mountain equipment. I definitely do not want to question the capabilities/reliability of anything I put in my plane. The vast majority of my flying will be VFR even though I'm instrument rated. I will be flying between Cincinnati and Houston (roughly 1000 nm) and would like to be able to relax at altitude and hopefully make it in one hop. Thanks again for the input and the links for information. Kent Forsythe 40338 Tailcone ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 04, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot
Scott, That's a great post and follows real closely with what I found as well. That Chelton stuff *will* cost you a bit more, but you get an incredible amount of increased functionality that has a ton of benefit, and you can drop some of the other expensive toys that wouldn't be as integrated as they could be. You did a great write-up. Thanks for the alternator post as well. Tim Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Current project: Fuselage Scott Schmidt wrote: > > > I have spent way too much time researching this as well. > > EFIS >>From what I have found the only two EFIS systems I would recommend are > the Chelton and the Grand Rapids. For a basic system I would also > recommend the Dynon. > > Autopilot > The only system out there is the TruTrak. > > Here are the configurations I would recommend for a great IFR aircraft > > All would use the TruTrak Digiflight II with Vertical GPS steering > 1. EFIS - Chelton > Comm - SL-30 or SL-40 (both if you don't want to add the GPS) > IFR GPS (not really needed) - GNS 480 or GNS 430 (I will go with > the GNS 430 since it is only $3000 more than the SL-30 and has so much > more functionality) > > 2. EFIS - Grand Rapids > Comm - SL-30 or SL-40 > IFR GPS - GNS 480 (The GNS 480 is a great IFR GPS and I would > recommend it for all the Victor airway data that is in it since the > Grand Rapids does not currently have it. If you have a Chelton, you > don't need it because the Chelton does everything!!!!) > > 3. EFIS - Dynon > Comm - SL-30 or SL-40 > IFR GPS - GNS 480 > > I don't want to get into why I wouldn't recommend the Blue Mountain too > much but they have had problems and their autopilot is not even close to > the TruTrak especially when linked to the Cheltons. Chelton has a > training DVD you should get from Direct-2-Avionics if you are > considering the Chelton. It will push you over the edge. When I ran > all the numbers, the Chelton system was $8000 more than the Grand Rapids > system in my panel since the autopilot was free at Oshkosh, and I could > go to a GNS 430 instead of the 480. It is a big chunk of change up front > but in the end I know it will be worth it. > > So what else did I find at Oshkosh that was cool? > - For weather I am going with the new Motion Computing tablet PC that is > 9" X 7" and will run the WxWorks software with the Bluetooth GPS. It > won't be panel mounted but I am going to try to rig up something nice. > - MT has a cool chrome spinner for the MT prop > > Scott Schmidt > sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 10:18 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot > > > Kent, > > I didn't want to jump the gun on this, but it sounds like you need > some info so I'll give you my work-in-progress. > > http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/theory/ > > I did really look hard at the BMA stuff at OSH 2004, but after some > poking questions at them, I dropped that idea completely. > From reviews at that time, the AP was not very stable, but > that may have been fixed. The bigger issues are the > capabilities that it does NOT have. Sure, you can stick > in a flight plan and fly it, but there are no approaches in > the thing (** My info is rusty and a year old, so check it out > for your self of course), so you can't fly any approaches with > it. At the time, they also couldn't fly the approaches loaded > into a GNS480, (or perhaps at least the vertical component), so > that really tossed it out the window. My advice is to have someone > who has good IFR experience (if you dont' have any) help you > come up with your requirements and then plug them with some > very hard and firm questions that you want answers to. I > think you'll find that from a functional standpoint, they're > lacking considerably if you want a good EFIS for IFR ops. > Grand Rapids would be a much better choice, and of course, > there's Chelton. > > Also, as a side note, once I finish the above page, I plan to > give a good run-down of how I picked Chelton. It's actually > very interesting/educational to see how you can actually trim > some components and costs out, buy paying more for those > boxes. They're definitely not for everyone, but anyone > looking at a couple of nice and expensive screens will stand > to benefit from hashing it over. > > Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 > Current project: Fuselage > > > > > Kent Forsythe wrote: > >> >> >>Does anyone have any experience with the Blue Mountain EFIS (Lite or >>Sport) and the autopilot option that they also sell? Compared to >>stand-alone autopilots, the addon to the Blue Mountain seems very low >>priced given the advertised capabilities (ie. two axis, GPS flight >>plan tracking, etc.). >> >>I'm curious if anyone knows any drawbacks of the system or has >>experience they'd like to share. At a first look, it seems as >>though you could get the EFIS/Lite and the autopilot complete with >>servos for around $6,000. >> >>Any help would be greatly appreciated. >> >>PS. Randy D., it was great getting to meet you and your wife Monday >>at OSH. Your 10 looks great. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
Subject: Thanks on the EFIS Info
Date: Aug 04, 2005
Kent, If you are going to be mainly flying VFR, then you can save a ton on your panel. I agree that the Cheltons and GRT EFIS units would be great for IFR, but there is a lot of functionality that you will probably not use while flying VFR. In fact, with the auto pilot (which is a must), you pretty much just have to watch what airspaces are in your way (of course, you have to take off and land as well). With a GPS and a basic EFIS, you should be fine. You don't need much fancy terrain with the Cincinnati to Houston flight, and you can get some pretty good stuff on a separate GPS with weather as well. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kent Forsythe Subject: RV10-List: Thanks on the EFIS Info Thanks everyone that had input on the EFIS question I posted. Clearly, it sounds as though you get what you pay for. I had not heard any of this feedback before on the Blue Mountain equipment. I definitely do not want to question the capabilities/reliability of anything I put in my plane. The vast majority of my flying will be VFR even though I'm instrument rated. I will be flying between Cincinnati and Houston (roughly 1000 nm) and would like to be able to relax at altitude and hopefully make it in one hop. Thanks again for the input and the links for information. Kent Forsythe 40338 Tailcone ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
Subject: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot
Date: Aug 04, 2005
We went with #3 and it is working great for us (we have the 430 not the 480, though). We are running it with the TruTrak A/P with GPS Stearing, but without the vertical option. The main thing we want that we don't have it weather. We are probably going to go with one of the software options for now and run it on a laptop to start with and see how we like it and how much we use it. Then we will end up going with a tablet PC or a pocket PC to run the weather and moving map with terrain (much nicer than the low detail that the 430 gives you). Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt Subject: RE: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot I have spent way too much time researching this as well. EFIS >From what I have found the only two EFIS systems I would recommend are the Chelton and the Grand Rapids. For a basic system I would also recommend the Dynon. Autopilot The only system out there is the TruTrak. Here are the configurations I would recommend for a great IFR aircraft All would use the TruTrak Digiflight II with Vertical GPS steering 1. EFIS - Chelton Comm - SL-30 or SL-40 (both if you don't want to add the GPS) IFR GPS (not really needed) - GNS 480 or GNS 430 (I will go with the GNS 430 since it is only $3000 more than the SL-30 and has so much more functionality) 2. EFIS - Grand Rapids Comm - SL-30 or SL-40 IFR GPS - GNS 480 (The GNS 480 is a great IFR GPS and I would recommend it for all the Victor airway data that is in it since the Grand Rapids does not currently have it. If you have a Chelton, you don't need it because the Chelton does everything!!!!) 3. EFIS - Dynon Comm - SL-30 or SL-40 IFR GPS - GNS 480 I don't want to get into why I wouldn't recommend the Blue Mountain too much but they have had problems and their autopilot is not even close to the TruTrak especially when linked to the Cheltons. Chelton has a training DVD you should get from Direct-2-Avionics if you are considering the Chelton. It will push you over the edge. When I ran all the numbers, the Chelton system was $8000 more than the Grand Rapids system in my panel since the autopilot was free at Oshkosh, and I could go to a GNS 430 instead of the 480. It is a big chunk of change up front but in the end I know it will be worth it. So what else did I find at Oshkosh that was cool? - For weather I am going with the new Motion Computing tablet PC that is 9" X 7" and will run the WxWorks software with the Bluetooth GPS. It won't be panel mounted but I am going to try to rig up something nice. - MT has a cool chrome spinner for the MT prop Scott Schmidt sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot Kent, I didn't want to jump the gun on this, but it sounds like you need some info so I'll give you my work-in-progress. http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/theory/ I did really look hard at the BMA stuff at OSH 2004, but after some poking questions at them, I dropped that idea completely. From reviews at that time, the AP was not very stable, but that may have been fixed. The bigger issues are the capabilities that it does NOT have. Sure, you can stick in a flight plan and fly it, but there are no approaches in the thing (** My info is rusty and a year old, so check it out for your self of course), so you can't fly any approaches with it. At the time, they also couldn't fly the approaches loaded into a GNS480, (or perhaps at least the vertical component), so that really tossed it out the window. My advice is to have someone who has good IFR experience (if you dont' have any) help you come up with your requirements and then plug them with some very hard and firm questions that you want answers to. I think you'll find that from a functional standpoint, they're lacking considerably if you want a good EFIS for IFR ops. Grand Rapids would be a much better choice, and of course, there's Chelton. Also, as a side note, once I finish the above page, I plan to give a good run-down of how I picked Chelton. It's actually very interesting/educational to see how you can actually trim some components and costs out, buy paying more for those boxes. They're definitely not for everyone, but anyone looking at a couple of nice and expensive screens will stand to benefit from hashing it over. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Current project: Fuselage Kent Forsythe wrote: > > > Does anyone have any experience with the Blue Mountain EFIS (Lite or > Sport) and the autopilot option that they also sell? Compared to > stand-alone autopilots, the addon to the Blue Mountain seems very low > priced given the advertised capabilities (ie. two axis, GPS flight > plan tracking, etc.). > > I'm curious if anyone knows any drawbacks of the system or has > experience they'd like to share. At a first look, it seems as > though you could get the EFIS/Lite and the autopilot complete with > servos for around $6,000. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > PS. Randy D., it was great getting to meet you and your wife Monday > at OSH. Your 10 looks great. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot
Date: Aug 04, 2005
I haven't really begun to examine the panel for myself yet, given that I don't need to for another couple years and who knows what will be available then, at what price, but take a look at the new Dynon or even the current model.... actually take a look at Randy D's panel. With the 480, MX-20, Dynon, Autopilot... that's quite a competent panel for 90% of even IFR flying. Don't get me wrong, I'd spring for something more exotic like the Chilton's if I could. But, wow, what we can have today is amazing compared to even two years ago, and it's very good equipment. For a flying opinion of the Blue Mountain stuff, I recommend contacting a Lancair (ex jet fighter pilot) driver who's got the big one in his 320. He's at the same airfield as I am and would be willing to give his 2 cents worth. Contact me off line for his contact information. John Jessen #328 Rudder...hopefully done tonight. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Subject: RE: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot We went with #3 and it is working great for us (we have the 430 not the 480, though). We are running it with the TruTrak A/P with GPS Stearing, but without the vertical option. The main thing we want that we don't have it weather. We are probably going to go with one of the software options for now and run it on a laptop to start with and see how we like it and how much we use it. Then we will end up going with a tablet PC or a pocket PC to run the weather and moving map with terrain (much nicer than the low detail that the 430 gives you). Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt Subject: RE: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot --> I have spent way too much time researching this as well. EFIS >From what I have found the only two EFIS systems I would recommend are the Chelton and the Grand Rapids. For a basic system I would also recommend the Dynon. Autopilot The only system out there is the TruTrak. Here are the configurations I would recommend for a great IFR aircraft All would use the TruTrak Digiflight II with Vertical GPS steering 1. EFIS - Chelton Comm - SL-30 or SL-40 (both if you don't want to add the GPS) IFR GPS (not really needed) - GNS 480 or GNS 430 (I will go with the GNS 430 since it is only $3000 more than the SL-30 and has so much more functionality) 2. EFIS - Grand Rapids Comm - SL-30 or SL-40 IFR GPS - GNS 480 (The GNS 480 is a great IFR GPS and I would recommend it for all the Victor airway data that is in it since the Grand Rapids does not currently have it. If you have a Chelton, you don't need it because the Chelton does everything!!!!) 3. EFIS - Dynon Comm - SL-30 or SL-40 IFR GPS - GNS 480 I don't want to get into why I wouldn't recommend the Blue Mountain too much but they have had problems and their autopilot is not even close to the TruTrak especially when linked to the Cheltons. Chelton has a training DVD you should get from Direct-2-Avionics if you are considering the Chelton. It will push you over the edge. When I ran all the numbers, the Chelton system was $8000 more than the Grand Rapids system in my panel since the autopilot was free at Oshkosh, and I could go to a GNS 430 instead of the 480. It is a big chunk of change up front but in the end I know it will be worth it. So what else did I find at Oshkosh that was cool? - For weather I am going with the new Motion Computing tablet PC that is 9" X 7" and will run the WxWorks software with the Bluetooth GPS. It won't be panel mounted but I am going to try to rig up something nice. - MT has a cool chrome spinner for the MT prop Scott Schmidt sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot Kent, I didn't want to jump the gun on this, but it sounds like you need some info so I'll give you my work-in-progress. http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/theory/ I did really look hard at the BMA stuff at OSH 2004, but after some poking questions at them, I dropped that idea completely. From reviews at that time, the AP was not very stable, but that may have been fixed. The bigger issues are the capabilities that it does NOT have. Sure, you can stick in a flight plan and fly it, but there are no approaches in the thing (** My info is rusty and a year old, so check it out for your self of course), so you can't fly any approaches with it. At the time, they also couldn't fly the approaches loaded into a GNS480, (or perhaps at least the vertical component), so that really tossed it out the window. My advice is to have someone who has good IFR experience (if you dont' have any) help you come up with your requirements and then plug them with some very hard and firm questions that you want answers to. I think you'll find that from a functional standpoint, they're lacking considerably if you want a good EFIS for IFR ops. Grand Rapids would be a much better choice, and of course, there's Chelton. Also, as a side note, once I finish the above page, I plan to give a good run-down of how I picked Chelton. It's actually very interesting/educational to see how you can actually trim some components and costs out, buy paying more for those boxes. They're definitely not for everyone, but anyone looking at a couple of nice and expensive screens will stand to benefit from hashing it over. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Current project: Fuselage Kent Forsythe wrote: > > > Does anyone have any experience with the Blue Mountain EFIS (Lite or > Sport) and the autopilot option that they also sell? Compared to > stand-alone autopilots, the addon to the Blue Mountain seems very low > priced given the advertised capabilities (ie. two axis, GPS flight > plan tracking, etc.). > > I'm curious if anyone knows any drawbacks of the system or has > experience they'd like to share. At a first look, it seems as > though you could get the EFIS/Lite and the autopilot complete with > servos for around $6,000. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > PS. Randy D., it was great getting to meet you and your wife Monday at > OSH. Your 10 looks great. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot
Date: Aug 04, 2005
From: "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com>
The PC based weather systems do seem to be the best right now. If you are going to pay $30 or $50/ month for the service you might as well have a system that has the capabilities to display all the features it offers. It is amazing to see the cloud cover, radar, METARS, winds aloft on the Motion Computing tablet PC. Chelton said that they will offer an XM weather option soon and it should be great with their high resolution screens but I don't think it will be as good as the motion computing. Also, here is something really cool you can do with a tablet PC. If you have internet access on your phone, you can use the Bluetooth on the tablet PC to get on the internet and you can file your flight plans, update your software, and get any other info you need right there in your plane. The other day, my friend was flying in his RV-6 with the TruTrak II on with nothing to do so he connected to the internet found there was an update for his Dynon, downloaded it and updated it within a couple of minutes. Pretty cool. Now all I need is a Starbucks Latte machine in the RV-10 and I will sell the house. Scott Schmidt sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Subject: RE: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot We went with #3 and it is working great for us (we have the 430 not the 480, though). We are running it with the TruTrak A/P with GPS Stearing, but without the vertical option. The main thing we want that we don't have it weather. We are probably going to go with one of the software options for now and run it on a laptop to start with and see how we like it and how much we use it. Then we will end up going with a tablet PC or a pocket PC to run the weather and moving map with terrain (much nicer than the low detail that the 430 gives you). Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt Subject: RE: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot I have spent way too much time researching this as well. EFIS >From what I have found the only two EFIS systems I would recommend are the Chelton and the Grand Rapids. For a basic system I would also recommend the Dynon. Autopilot The only system out there is the TruTrak. Here are the configurations I would recommend for a great IFR aircraft All would use the TruTrak Digiflight II with Vertical GPS steering 1. EFIS - Chelton Comm - SL-30 or SL-40 (both if you don't want to add the GPS) IFR GPS (not really needed) - GNS 480 or GNS 430 (I will go with the GNS 430 since it is only $3000 more than the SL-30 and has so much more functionality) 2. EFIS - Grand Rapids Comm - SL-30 or SL-40 IFR GPS - GNS 480 (The GNS 480 is a great IFR GPS and I would recommend it for all the Victor airway data that is in it since the Grand Rapids does not currently have it. If you have a Chelton, you don't need it because the Chelton does everything!!!!) 3. EFIS - Dynon Comm - SL-30 or SL-40 IFR GPS - GNS 480 I don't want to get into why I wouldn't recommend the Blue Mountain too much but they have had problems and their autopilot is not even close to the TruTrak especially when linked to the Cheltons. Chelton has a training DVD you should get from Direct-2-Avionics if you are considering the Chelton. It will push you over the edge. When I ran all the numbers, the Chelton system was $8000 more than the Grand Rapids system in my panel since the autopilot was free at Oshkosh, and I could go to a GNS 430 instead of the 480. It is a big chunk of change up front but in the end I know it will be worth it. So what else did I find at Oshkosh that was cool? - For weather I am going with the new Motion Computing tablet PC that is 9" X 7" and will run the WxWorks software with the Bluetooth GPS. It won't be panel mounted but I am going to try to rig up something nice. - MT has a cool chrome spinner for the MT prop Scott Schmidt sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot Kent, I didn't want to jump the gun on this, but it sounds like you need some info so I'll give you my work-in-progress. http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/theory/ I did really look hard at the BMA stuff at OSH 2004, but after some poking questions at them, I dropped that idea completely. From reviews at that time, the AP was not very stable, but that may have been fixed. The bigger issues are the capabilities that it does NOT have. Sure, you can stick in a flight plan and fly it, but there are no approaches in the thing (** My info is rusty and a year old, so check it out for your self of course), so you can't fly any approaches with it. At the time, they also couldn't fly the approaches loaded into a GNS480, (or perhaps at least the vertical component), so that really tossed it out the window. My advice is to have someone who has good IFR experience (if you dont' have any) help you come up with your requirements and then plug them with some very hard and firm questions that you want answers to. I think you'll find that from a functional standpoint, they're lacking considerably if you want a good EFIS for IFR ops. Grand Rapids would be a much better choice, and of course, there's Chelton. Also, as a side note, once I finish the above page, I plan to give a good run-down of how I picked Chelton. It's actually very interesting/educational to see how you can actually trim some components and costs out, buy paying more for those boxes. They're definitely not for everyone, but anyone looking at a couple of nice and expensive screens will stand to benefit from hashing it over. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Current project: Fuselage Kent Forsythe wrote: > > > Does anyone have any experience with the Blue Mountain EFIS (Lite or > Sport) and the autopilot option that they also sell? Compared to > stand-alone autopilots, the addon to the Blue Mountain seems very low > priced given the advertised capabilities (ie. two axis, GPS flight > plan tracking, etc.). > > I'm curious if anyone knows any drawbacks of the system or has > experience they'd like to share. At a first look, it seems as > though you could get the EFIS/Lite and the autopilot complete with > servos for around $6,000. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > PS. Randy D., it was great getting to meet you and your wife Monday > at OSH. Your 10 looks great. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot
Date: Aug 04, 2005
From: "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com>
You are right John. All the systems are amazing today. If the Dynon was the only system out there we would all be drooling over it and we would pay $5000 or more for it. Picking out today's instruments is like picking our next date out of the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition. They are all really nice but some have better features than others. Scott Schmidt sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen Subject: RE: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot I haven't really begun to examine the panel for myself yet, given that I don't need to for another couple years and who knows what will be available then, at what price, but take a look at the new Dynon or even the current model.... actually take a look at Randy D's panel. With the 480, MX-20, Dynon, Autopilot... that's quite a competent panel for 90% of even IFR flying. Don't get me wrong, I'd spring for something more exotic like the Chilton's if I could. But, wow, what we can have today is amazing compared to even two years ago, and it's very good equipment. For a flying opinion of the Blue Mountain stuff, I recommend contacting a Lancair (ex jet fighter pilot) driver who's got the big one in his 320. He's at the same airfield as I am and would be willing to give his 2 cents worth. Contact me off line for his contact information. John Jessen #328 Rudder...hopefully done tonight. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Subject: RE: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot We went with #3 and it is working great for us (we have the 430 not the 480, though). We are running it with the TruTrak A/P with GPS Stearing, but without the vertical option. The main thing we want that we don't have it weather. We are probably going to go with one of the software options for now and run it on a laptop to start with and see how we like it and how much we use it. Then we will end up going with a tablet PC or a pocket PC to run the weather and moving map with terrain (much nicer than the low detail that the 430 gives you). Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt Subject: RE: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot --> I have spent way too much time researching this as well. EFIS >From what I have found the only two EFIS systems I would recommend are the Chelton and the Grand Rapids. For a basic system I would also recommend the Dynon. Autopilot The only system out there is the TruTrak. Here are the configurations I would recommend for a great IFR aircraft All would use the TruTrak Digiflight II with Vertical GPS steering 1. EFIS - Chelton Comm - SL-30 or SL-40 (both if you don't want to add the GPS) IFR GPS (not really needed) - GNS 480 or GNS 430 (I will go with the GNS 430 since it is only $3000 more than the SL-30 and has so much more functionality) 2. EFIS - Grand Rapids Comm - SL-30 or SL-40 IFR GPS - GNS 480 (The GNS 480 is a great IFR GPS and I would recommend it for all the Victor airway data that is in it since the Grand Rapids does not currently have it. If you have a Chelton, you don't need it because the Chelton does everything!!!!) 3. EFIS - Dynon Comm - SL-30 or SL-40 IFR GPS - GNS 480 I don't want to get into why I wouldn't recommend the Blue Mountain too much but they have had problems and their autopilot is not even close to the TruTrak especially when linked to the Cheltons. Chelton has a training DVD you should get from Direct-2-Avionics if you are considering the Chelton. It will push you over the edge. When I ran all the numbers, the Chelton system was $8000 more than the Grand Rapids system in my panel since the autopilot was free at Oshkosh, and I could go to a GNS 430 instead of the 480. It is a big chunk of change up front but in the end I know it will be worth it. So what else did I find at Oshkosh that was cool? - For weather I am going with the new Motion Computing tablet PC that is 9" X 7" and will run the WxWorks software with the Bluetooth GPS. It won't be panel mounted but I am going to try to rig up something nice. - MT has a cool chrome spinner for the MT prop Scott Schmidt sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot Kent, I didn't want to jump the gun on this, but it sounds like you need some info so I'll give you my work-in-progress. http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/theory/ I did really look hard at the BMA stuff at OSH 2004, but after some poking questions at them, I dropped that idea completely. From reviews at that time, the AP was not very stable, but that may have been fixed. The bigger issues are the capabilities that it does NOT have. Sure, you can stick in a flight plan and fly it, but there are no approaches in the thing (** My info is rusty and a year old, so check it out for your self of course), so you can't fly any approaches with it. At the time, they also couldn't fly the approaches loaded into a GNS480, (or perhaps at least the vertical component), so that really tossed it out the window. My advice is to have someone who has good IFR experience (if you dont' have any) help you come up with your requirements and then plug them with some very hard and firm questions that you want answers to. I think you'll find that from a functional standpoint, they're lacking considerably if you want a good EFIS for IFR ops. Grand Rapids would be a much better choice, and of course, there's Chelton. Also, as a side note, once I finish the above page, I plan to give a good run-down of how I picked Chelton. It's actually very interesting/educational to see how you can actually trim some components and costs out, buy paying more for those boxes. They're definitely not for everyone, but anyone looking at a couple of nice and expensive screens will stand to benefit from hashing it over. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Current project: Fuselage Kent Forsythe wrote: > > > Does anyone have any experience with the Blue Mountain EFIS (Lite or > Sport) and the autopilot option that they also sell? Compared to > stand-alone autopilots, the addon to the Blue Mountain seems very low > priced given the advertised capabilities (ie. two axis, GPS flight > plan tracking, etc.). > > I'm curious if anyone knows any drawbacks of the system or has > experience they'd like to share. At a first look, it seems as > though you could get the EFIS/Lite and the autopilot complete with > servos for around $6,000. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > PS. Randy D., it was great getting to meet you and your wife Monday at > OSH. Your 10 looks great. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Cold air induction?????
Date: Aug 04, 2005
To all you engineering types out there: what exactly is "cold air induction" as advertised by ECI in their new kit engines? In lay man's terms, please. What benefit will it offer? What exactly will it do? Please pardon my ignorance. Mani Ravee, MD Indianapolis, KUMP #40339. N528AR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GenGrumpy(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 04, 2005
Subject: Re: For Tim Olson
Many thanks, Tim. Working hard now to find the right motor.....found a guy in TX to build me a custom c/s prop designed for speed. Probably take 3-5 months for him to finish it off. I'm really interested in what you think of your motor once you get it mounted and running. I liked the roller/rods Lyc finally got around to using at Osh, just have a hard time coughing up the amount of cash they want..... The Mattituck website looks most interesting, but don't have any history on them. I, too, settled on the Chelton's at Osh after looking over GRT and BMT both. Still debating on whether to use Dynon or BMT sport as my backup ADI. I am not going to use a vacuum pump at all, and want the redundancy for IMC work. So.....any light you can shed on your motor once you have done some tinkering would be helpful, especially going to dual lightspeeds......? Thanks - John In a message dated 8/4/2005 12:37:24 AM Central Standard Time, Tim(at)MyRV10.com writes: Hey John, Glad you found their site. I don't know that they have anything to actually "do" about the crank problem. I did specifically ask Bart at OSH *Before* I picked up the engine, what kind of potential they had for issues with the cranks...he said that they do have the serial numbers on all parts in the engine, so if it had been in that range, they'd know about it. So, I don't think it's a big worry...they'd never knowingly sell you a bad one. I put money down on mine about April/May and picked it up at OSH, but it was ready before that. My guess is that you could have the engine in a month, but I think they quote more like 3-4 months. I went with Single Lightspeed Plasma III and a single Mag. I'm planning on running a main battery, and a smaller aux. battery. The aux battery will be used during engine start to prevent kickback on the lightspeed, and to power my EIS and EFIS during engine start....it will also supply voltage when my E-Bus switch is flipped. For my lightspeed, I added a switch (3 way) that will toggle between powering it from the Aux. Battery Bus and the Main battery bus (normal). This is all probably not necessary, considering I have a mag, but if I lose my alternator, it would still be nice to have a well running engine. Any more, fire away... Tim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 04, 2005
From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)core.com>
Subject: Re: Cold air induction?????
Dan Checkoway wrote: >Compare, for example, the IO-360-A1B6 (200hp) to the O-360-A1A >(180hp). Both engines have 360 cubic inch displacement. The one >with cold air induction & angle valve heads produces 20 more >horsepower with the identical displacement. Well, not exactly. Both of these engine run their intake through the oil sump, so neither could be considered cold air induction. The difference in horsepower between these two engines is better breathing by the IO-306 angle valve and a slighter higher compression ratio. I think the Millineum sells a sump for the IO-360 with the intake manifolds separate to also achieve this cold air intake. Who knows, all this may be good for a 1% increase in HP. William Curtis 40237 - wings http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2005
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot
If you are going with a PC based weather system I strongly recommend the Motion Computing tablet PC. My neighbor has it and in bright sunlight it is dramatically clearer than my Compaq tablet. But neither are as good as the panel mounted displays. Scott Schmidt wrote: > >The PC based weather systems do seem to be the best right now. If you >are going to pay $30 or $50/ month for the service you might as well >have a system that has the capabilities to display all the features it >offers. It is amazing to see the cloud cover, radar, METARS, winds >aloft on the Motion Computing tablet PC. Chelton said that they will >offer an XM weather option soon and it should be great with their high >resolution screens but I don't think it will be as good as the motion >computing. > >Also, here is something really cool you can do with a tablet PC. If you >have internet access on your phone, you can use the Bluetooth on the >tablet PC to get on the internet and you can file your flight plans, >update your software, and get any other info you need right there in >your plane. The other day, my friend was flying in his RV-6 with the >TruTrak II on with nothing to do so he connected to the internet found >there was an update for his Dynon, downloaded it and updated it within a >couple of minutes. >Pretty cool. Now all I need is a Starbucks Latte machine in the RV-10 >and I will sell the house. > >Scott Schmidt >sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint >Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 3:07 PM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot > > >We went with #3 and it is working great for us (we have the 430 not the >480, >though). We are running it with the TruTrak A/P with GPS Stearing, but >without the vertical option. The main thing we want that we don't have >it >weather. We are probably going to go with one of the software options >for >now and run it on a laptop to start with and see how we like it and how >much >we use it. Then we will end up going with a tablet PC or a pocket PC to >run >the weather and moving map with terrain (much nicer than the low detail >that >the 430 gives you). > >Jesse Saint >I-TEC, Inc. >jesse(at)itecusa.org >www.itecusa.org >W: 352-465-4545 >C: 352-427-0285 >F: 815-377-3694 > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt >Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 1:13 PM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot > > > > >I have spent way too much time researching this as well. > >EFIS >>From what I have found the only two EFIS systems I would recommend are >the Chelton and the Grand Rapids. For a basic system I would also >recommend the Dynon. > >Autopilot >The only system out there is the TruTrak. > >Here are the configurations I would recommend for a great IFR aircraft > >All would use the TruTrak Digiflight II with Vertical GPS steering >1. EFIS - Chelton > Comm - SL-30 or SL-40 (both if you don't want to add the GPS) > IFR GPS (not really needed) - GNS 480 or GNS 430 (I will go with >the GNS 430 since it is only $3000 more than the SL-30 and has so much >more functionality) > >2. EFIS - Grand Rapids > Comm - SL-30 or SL-40 > IFR GPS - GNS 480 (The GNS 480 is a great IFR GPS and I would >recommend it for all the Victor airway data that is in it since the >Grand Rapids does not currently have it. If you have a Chelton, you >don't need it because the Chelton does everything!!!!) > >3. EFIS - Dynon > Comm - SL-30 or SL-40 > IFR GPS - GNS 480 > >I don't want to get into why I wouldn't recommend the Blue Mountain too >much but they have had problems and their autopilot is not even close to >the TruTrak especially when linked to the Cheltons. Chelton has a >training DVD you should get from Direct-2-Avionics if you are >considering the Chelton. It will push you over the edge. When I ran >all the numbers, the Chelton system was $8000 more than the Grand Rapids >system in my panel since the autopilot was free at Oshkosh, and I could >go to a GNS 430 instead of the 480. It is a big chunk of change up front >but in the end I know it will be worth it. > >So what else did I find at Oshkosh that was cool? >- For weather I am going with the new Motion Computing tablet PC that is >9" X 7" and will run the WxWorks software with the Bluetooth GPS. It >won't be panel mounted but I am going to try to rig up something nice. >- MT has a cool chrome spinner for the MT prop > >Scott Schmidt >sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson >Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 10:18 AM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot > > >Kent, > >I didn't want to jump the gun on this, but it sounds like you need >some info so I'll give you my work-in-progress. > >http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/theory/ > >I did really look hard at the BMA stuff at OSH 2004, but after some >poking questions at them, I dropped that idea completely. > From reviews at that time, the AP was not very stable, but >that may have been fixed. The bigger issues are the >capabilities that it does NOT have. Sure, you can stick >in a flight plan and fly it, but there are no approaches in >the thing (** My info is rusty and a year old, so check it out >for your self of course), so you can't fly any approaches with >it. At the time, they also couldn't fly the approaches loaded >into a GNS480, (or perhaps at least the vertical component), so >that really tossed it out the window. My advice is to have someone >who has good IFR experience (if you dont' have any) help you >come up with your requirements and then plug them with some >very hard and firm questions that you want answers to. I >think you'll find that from a functional standpoint, they're >lacking considerably if you want a good EFIS for IFR ops. >Grand Rapids would be a much better choice, and of course, >there's Chelton. > >Also, as a side note, once I finish the above page, I plan to >give a good run-down of how I picked Chelton. It's actually >very interesting/educational to see how you can actually trim >some components and costs out, buy paying more for those >boxes. They're definitely not for everyone, but anyone >looking at a couple of nice and expensive screens will stand >to benefit from hashing it over. > >Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 >Current project: Fuselage > > >Kent Forsythe wrote: > > >> >> >>Does anyone have any experience with the Blue Mountain EFIS (Lite or >>Sport) and the autopilot option that they also sell? Compared to >>stand-alone autopilots, the addon to the Blue Mountain seems very low >>priced given the advertised capabilities (ie. two axis, GPS flight >>plan tracking, etc.). >> >>I'm curious if anyone knows any drawbacks of the system or has >>experience they'd like to share. At a first look, it seems as >>though you could get the EFIS/Lite and the autopilot complete with >>servos for around $6,000. >> >>Any help would be greatly appreciated. >> >>PS. Randy D., it was great getting to meet you and your wife Monday >>at OSH. Your 10 looks great. >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________ ;
Date: Aug 04, 2005
From: Kevin Echols <kmechols(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot
I believe the hard drives in the Motion Computing tablet PC are limited to 10,000' (operating). Something to keep in mind... http://www.motioncomputing.com/products/tablet_pc_ls800.asp -Kevin --- Larry Rosen wrote: > > If you are going with a PC based weather system I strongly recommend the > Motion Computing tablet PC. My neighbor has it and in bright sunlight > it is dramatically clearer than my Compaq tablet. But neither are as > good as the panel mounted displays. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: Exterior lighting choices - followup
Date: Aug 05, 2005
You may want to check out the strobe kit I use at http://www.strobesnmore.com . Single unit power pack, 4 strobe tubes, shielded wires, connectors. Anh #141 ----- Original Message ----- From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen) To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 12:18 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Exterior lighting choices - followup If anyone is interested here is what I decided on: - CreativAir's 3 strobe kit: <http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath27&products_id36> - Whelen tail strobe/position from Vans as it seems to be the only one that fits the small spot in the fairing: http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident1123168358-134-558&browselighting&producta555/500light. - Bill Dubes rectangular LED Nav lights: http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath22&products_id61 The LED light on the CreativAir's sight doesn't list the assembled version so I have an email into Bill Vondane to find out if he just forgot to add it. I can always get the assembled version direct from Bill Dube for $5 less. Grand total for this will be around $740 without shipping. The equivalent Whelen system from Van's (System 6) using conventional nav lights is $780. So I only save $40 but I get a, hopefully, more reliable system that uses less power. Michael Sausen -10 #352 wings From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:16 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Exterior lighting choices Ok, I'm ordering accessories for the wings so I have them when I need them. Got the wing kit for Rob's AOA system, ordered the Duckworks HID and the aileron trim ($275 in case anyone is wondering) from Van's. Still need to order the pitot tube, probably be the Gretz. Now I'm trying to decide on who to use for my strobes/LED nav lights. Whelen is out because of the cost. So this leaves me; Aeroflash, CreativAir, and GS-Air. Of course none of them were at Airventure. First question, how many people out there experienced any problems with the strobes being powered from a central power supply? If I end up getting strobes with a central supply I will probably run the power leads in a dedicated conduit as far away from the other leads, including the Archer Nav coax, as possible. I would prefer strobes run from local power supplies but Aeroflash is the only option of the three for this and I still need to price them out. I'll probably get the Aeroflash for the tail strobe either way but I need to check the flange dimensions so I can make sure it fit's ok. Does anyone have any preference between GS-Air or Creativ-Air? They are both similar and pretty much the same cost. Anyone currently using any of the above that can give us a pirep? Michael Sausen -10 #352 wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Cold air induction?????
Date: Aug 04, 2005
William, While you're technically correct that the intake runs "through the sump," on my IO-360-A1B6 the intake section of the sump is below the chamber where the oil sits. On an O-360-A1A, the intake tubes literally run *through* hot oil. My IO-360-A1B6 has a stock compression ratio of 8.7:1. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: William Curtis To: dan(at)rvproject.com ; RV10-List(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:36 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Cold air induction????? Dan Checkoway wrote: >Compare, for example, the IO-360-A1B6 (200hp) to the O-360-A1A >(180hp). Both engines have 360 cubic inch displacement. The one >with cold air induction & angle valve heads produces 20 more >horsepower with the identical displacement. Well, not exactly. Both of these engine run their intake through the oil sump, so neither could be considered "cold air" induction. The difference in horsepower between these two engines is better breathing by the IO-306 angle valve and a slighter higher compression ratio. I think the Millineum sells a sump for the IO-360 with the intake manifolds separate to also achieve this "cold air intake". Who knows, all this may be good for a 1% increase in HP. William Curtis 40237 - wings http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot
Date: Aug 05, 2005
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
I learned this from the list, and I have been a hardware geek for a long time, All standard hard drives are ported to the air, they use pressure from the spinning platters to float the heads, when you get above 10k the air density is not enough to ensure that you will not get a head strike with movement. Now with that being said and being from CO originally, there was many days with the heat that density altitude was above 10k on the ground and our PC's, desktop and laptop, did not stop working, that is not to say that there was not a greater chance of failure, just that the manufacture was only willing to warrant there operation to 10k, which seems funny because most of the South West sits at 6k plus and with heat you would have all kinds of DA problems if this was true. Dan -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Echols Subject: Re: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot I believe the hard drives in the Motion Computing tablet PC are limited to 10,000' (operating). Something to keep in mind... http://www.motioncomputing.com/products/tablet_pc_ls800.asp -Kevin --- Larry Rosen wrote: > > If you are going with a PC based weather system I strongly recommend the > Motion Computing tablet PC. My neighbor has it and in bright sunlight > it is dramatically clearer than my Compaq tablet. But neither are as > good as the panel mounted displays. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Indran Chelvanayagam" <ichelva(at)netspace.net.au>
Subject: Re: Update from OSH
Date: Aug 05, 2005
Brian, in response to your query regarding the Precison EMS/FADEC system - yes, they are planning a 6 cyl version. HOWEVER .... After sitting through a 60 min presentation, it was revealed that this system is not "closed loop" - ie it does not have EGT probes. It has CHT probes, but only uses this info as a failsafe, to move the mixture to full rich if CHT rises too high. So the EMS takes only manifold pressure and RPM, and empirically adjusts mixture - IMHO a less satisfactory method than using EGTs/CHTs. But it will be cheap - "slightly more" than the cost of 2 Mags + coils etc. Indran Chelvanayagam #40228 Bunbury, Western Australia (temporarily relocated to OSH) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: For Tim- stained glass windows
Date: Aug 05, 2005
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Check this out, I am going to call and get one made for my office, thought it would be cool in addition to your shirts! www.flyingcolorsglass.com > Dan Lloyd > Manager of Information Technology > Werner Company > 93 Werner Road > Greenville, PA 16126 > > lloyddr(at)wernerco.com > 1-724-588-2000 *2408 work > 1-724-988-9230 cell > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Update from OSH
Date: Aug 05, 2005
From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com>
If they've got accurate Fuel Flow, it might work okay for them. Each engine has a curve of what the best economy and best power fuel flow rates are for any given power setting of the engine. So theoretically you can do a lookup based on the current power and the FADEC can set the mixture to the correct FF for that power. EGT has traditionally been used because it was easily measured and analyzed by the pilot. You couldn't very easily read a graph and interpolate fuel flow point in the cockpit very well - no problem for a computer, though. Question: Do you get to choose Best Economy or Best Power, or how does the FADEC decide which you want? I've often wondered what the FADEC in my car is doing - Economy or Power? TDT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Indran Chelvanayagam Subject: Re: RV10-List: Update from OSH Brian, in response to your query regarding the Precison EMS/FADEC system - yes, they are planning a 6 cyl version. HOWEVER .... After sitting through a 60 min presentation, it was revealed that this system is not "closed loop" - ie it does not have EGT probes. It has CHT probes, but only uses this info as a failsafe, to move the mixture to full rich if CHT rises too high. So the EMS takes only manifold pressure and RPM, and empirically adjusts mixture - IMHO a less satisfactory method than using EGTs/CHTs. But it will be cheap - "slightly more" than the cost of 2 Mags + coils etc. Indran Chelvanayagam #40228 Bunbury, Western Australia (temporarily relocated to OSH) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2005
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Exterior lighting choices - followup
Anh, Which kit did you use? The 60 watt 4 head X-Pack kit? (except for the mounting bracket it looks just like the creative air system). Are you using the Whelen tail strobe/position light in the tail? Larry http://rv10pilot.home.comcast.net/ DejaVu wrote: > You may want to check out the strobe kit I use at > http://www.strobesnmore.com . Single unit power pack, 4 strobe tubes, > shielded wires, connectors. > Anh > #141 > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* RV Builder (Michael Sausen) > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Thursday, August 04, 2005 12:18 PM > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Exterior lighting choices - followup > > If anyone is interested here is what I decided on: > > - CreativAir's 3 strobe kit: > <http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=36 > <http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=36>> > > - Whelen tail strobe/position from Vans as it seems to be the only > one that fits the small spot in the fairing: > http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1123168358-134-558&browse=lighting&product=a555/500light > <http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1123168358-134-558&browse=lighting&product=a555/500light>. > > - Bill Dubes rectangular LED Nav lights: > http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=61 > <http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=61> > > The LED light on the CreativAir's sight doesn't list the assembled > version so I have an email into Bill Vondane to find out if he > just forgot to add it. I can always get the assembled version > direct from Bill Dube for $5 less. Grand total for this will be > around $740 without shipping. The equivalent Whelen system from > Van's (System 6) using conventional nav lights is $780. So I only > save $40 but I get a, hopefully, more reliable system that uses > less power. > > Michael Sausen > -10 #352 wings > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *RV > Builder (Michael Sausen) > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:16 PM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Exterior lighting choices > > Ok, I'm ordering accessories for the wings so I have them when I > need them. Got the wing kit for Rob's AOA system, ordered the > Duckworks HID and the aileron trim ($275 in case anyone is > wondering) from Van's. Still need to order the pitot tube, > probably be the Gretz. Now I'm trying to decide on who to use for > my strobes/LED nav lights. Whelen is out because of the cost. So > this leaves me; Aeroflash, CreativAir, and GS-Air. Of course none > of them were at Airventure. > > First question, how many people out there experienced any problems > with the strobes being powered from a central power supply? If I > end up getting strobes with a central supply I will probably run > the power leads in a dedicated conduit as far away from the other > leads, including the Archer Nav coax, as possible. I would prefer > strobes run from local power supplies but Aeroflash is the only > option of the three for this and I still need to price them out. > I'll probably get the Aeroflash for the tail strobe either way but > I need to check the flange dimensions so I can make sure it fit's ok. > > Does anyone have any preference between GS-Air or Creativ-Air? > They are both similar and pretty much the same cost. Anyone > currently using any of the above that can give us a pirep? > > Michael Sausen > -10 #352 wings > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: For Tim- stained glass windows
Dan, That's way cool. I may just have to do that. ;) I modified the URL below so others could click it... the original had coding that was file:// before the URL so it wasn't clickable. Tim Lloyd, Daniel R. wrote: > Check this out, I am going to call and get one made for my office, > thought it would be cool in addition to your shirts! http://www.flyingcolorsglass.com > > Dan Lloyd > Manager of Information Technology > Werner Company > 93 Werner Road > Greenville, PA 16126 > > _lloyddr(at)wernerco.com_ > 1-724-588-2000 *2408 work > 1-724-988-9230 cell > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Exterior lighting choices - followup
Date: Aug 05, 2005
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
%( %$!####&*! That appears to be identical to the CreativAir supply for about $135 less with an extra strobe and some cheezy switches. Looks like Bill just rebrands it and Jacks the price waaaay up. D'oh! Could have used this yesterday. :-) Oh well, at least everyone else can benefit from your thorough searching. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Main Spar ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Subject: Re: RV10-List: Exterior lighting choices - followup You may want to check out the strobe kit I use at http://www.strobesnmore.com . Single unit power pack, 4 strobe tubes, shielded wires, connectors. Anh #141 ----- Original Message ----- From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <mailto:rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 12:18 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Exterior lighting choices - followup If anyone is interested here is what I decided on: - CreativAir's 3 strobe kit: <http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath27&products_id36> - Whelen tail strobe/position from Vans as it seems to be the only one that fits the small spot in the fairing: http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident1123168358-134-558&browselighting&producta555/500light. - Bill Dubes rectangular LED Nav lights: http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath22&products_id61 The LED light on the CreativAir's sight doesn't list the assembled version so I have an email into Bill Vondane to find out if he just forgot to add it. I can always get the assembled version direct from Bill Dube for $5 less. Grand total for this will be around $740 without shipping. The equivalent Whelen system from Van's (System 6) using conventional nav lights is $780. So I only save $40 but I get a, hopefully, more reliable system that uses less power. Michael Sausen -10 #352 wings ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:16 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Exterior lighting choices =09 =09 Ok, I'm ordering accessories for the wings so I have them when I need them. Got the wing kit for Rob's AOA system, ordered the Duckworks HID and the aileron trim ($275 in case anyone is wondering) from Van's. Still need to order the pitot tube, probably be the Gretz. Now I'm trying to decide on who to use for my strobes/LED nav lights. Whelen is out because of the cost. So this leaves me; Aeroflash, CreativAir, and GS-Air. Of course none of them were at Airventure. First question, how many people out there experienced any problems with the strobes being powered from a central power supply? If I end up getting strobes with a central supply I will probably run the power leads in a dedicated conduit as far away from the other leads, including the Archer Nav coax, as possible. I would prefer strobes run from local power supplies but Aeroflash is the only option of the three for this and I still need to price them out. I'll probably get the Aeroflash for the tail strobe either way but I need to check the flange dimensions so I can make sure it fit's ok. Does anyone have any preference between GS-Air or Creativ-Air? They are both similar and pretty much the same cost. Anyone currently using any of the above that can give us a pirep? Michael Sausen -10 #352 wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2005
From: "Jim Combs" <jimc(at)mail.infra-read.com>
Subject: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot
I have the specs for IBM and Toshiba hard drives. They DO have a maximum altitude of 10K for operation. I don't know the exact reasons why. Using solid state hard drives is an easy solution. Also there is absolutly no reason you can't command the drive to spin down if you see the altitude exceeding 10K feet. Data can be cached in DRAM or on flash drives. For those intending to use PC based platforms in your aricraft, you need to account for hard drive limitations. Go solid state on the drives or put in lots of ram and cache data that might be needed via a ramdisk. IMMV. Jim Combs #40192 N312F ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Exterior lighting choices - followup
Date: Aug 05, 2005
another good place for strobes and lights at discount prices is www.strobe-direct.com _____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Subject: RE: RV10-List: Exterior lighting choices - followup %( %$!####&*! That appears to be identical to the CreativAir supply for about $135 less with an extra strobe and some cheezy switches. Looks like Bill just rebrands it and Jacks the price waaaay up. D'oh! Could have used this yesterday. :-) Oh well, at least everyone else can benefit from your thorough searching. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Main Spar _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Subject: Re: RV10-List: Exterior lighting choices - followup You may want to check out the strobe kit I use at http://www.strobesnmore.com . Single unit power pack, 4 strobe tubes, shielded wires, connectors. Anh #141 ----- Original Message ----- From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <mailto:rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 12:18 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Exterior lighting choices - followup If anyone is interested here is what I decided on: - CreativAir's 3 strobe kit: <http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath27&products_id36> - Whelen tail strobe/position from Vans as it seems to be the only one that fits the small spot in the fairing: http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident1123168358-134-558 &browselighting&producta555/500light. - Bill Dubes rectangular LED Nav lights: http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath22&products_id61 The LED light on the CreativAir's sight doesn't list the assembled version so I have an email into Bill Vondane to find out if he just forgot to add it. I can always get the assembled version direct from Bill Dube for $5 less. Grand total for this will be around $740 without shipping. The equivalent Whelen system from Van's (System 6) using conventional nav lights is $780. So I only save $40 but I get a, hopefully, more reliable system that uses less power. Michael Sausen -10 #352 wings _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:16 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Exterior lighting choices =09 =09 Ok, I'm ordering accessories for the wings so I have them when I need them. Got the wing kit for Rob's AOA system, ordered the Duckworks HID and the aileron trim ($275 in case anyone is wondering) from Van's. Still need to order the pitot tube, probably be the Gretz. Now I'm trying to decide on who to use for my strobes/LED nav lights. Whelen is out because of the cost. So this leaves me; Aeroflash, CreativAir, and GS-Air. Of course none of them were at Airventure. First question, how many people out there experienced any problems with the strobes being powered from a central power supply? If I end up getting strobes with a central supply I will probably run the power leads in a dedicated conduit as far away from the other leads, including the Archer Nav coax, as possible. I would prefer strobes run from local power supplies but Aeroflash is the only option of the three for this and I still need to price them out. I'll probably get the Aeroflash for the tail strobe either way but I need to check the flange dimensions so I can make sure it fit's ok. Does anyone have any preference between GS-Air or Creativ-Air? They are both similar and pretty much the same cost. Anyone currently using any of the above that can give us a pirep? Michael Sausen -10 #352 wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot
Date: Aug 05, 2005
I have a Sony Vaio U750P with a Toshiba 20 Gig HD running anywheremap. It has worked flawless for me at 16500' or 18350'DA for 4 hours. I fly often above 10,000' and have no squawks for the hard drive. Some things work better than the specs... > > I have the specs for IBM and Toshiba hard drives. They DO have a maximum altitude of 10K for operation. I don't know the exact reasons why. > > Using solid state hard drives is an easy solution. Also there is absolutly no reason you can't command the drive to spin down if you see the altitude exceeding 10K feet. Data can be cached in DRAM or on flash drives. > > For those intending to use PC based platforms in your aricraft, you need to account for hard drive limitations. Go solid state on the drives or put in lots of ram and cache data that might be needed via a ramdisk. > > IMMV. > > Jim Combs > #40192 > N312F > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2005
From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)core.com>
Subject: Re: Cold air induction?????
>William, > >While you're technically correct that the intake runs "through the sump," on my > IO-360-A1B6 the intake section of the sump is below the chamber where the oil > sits. > >On an O-360-A1A, the intake tubes literally run *through* hot oil. > >My IO-360-A1B6 has a stock compression ratio of 8.7:1. Dan Hmm, I dont believe that this is a stock sump/induction then. I also have the certified angle valve IO-360 A1B6D in my Cardinal 177RG and the intake definitely goes through the sump. You are correct on the compression ratio of the angle valve IO-360, but the parallel valve I/O-360 only has a compression ration of 8.5:1. That, and better valve porting is the primary reason for the 20 additional horsepower. William http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
Subject: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot
Date: Aug 05, 2005
This would be quite a handicap, though, as this plane loves to fly between 10,000 and 18,000. I also agree that the fact that the drives don't support higher altitudes doesn't mean they won't handle it. I spend a lot of time in Quito, Ecuador, which is above 10,000 feet and they all use normal computers without trouble. I haven't seen one working at 18,000, however. Next time we are going to be up that high I will take my laptop and try it out. If it dies, then we know that it isn't a good idea. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Combs Subject: Re: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot I have the specs for IBM and Toshiba hard drives. They DO have a maximum altitude of 10K for operation. I don't know the exact reasons why. Using solid state hard drives is an easy solution. Also there is absolutly no reason you can't command the drive to spin down if you see the altitude exceeding 10K feet. Data can be cached in DRAM or on flash drives. For those intending to use PC based platforms in your aricraft, you need to account for hard drive limitations. Go solid state on the drives or put in lots of ram and cache data that might be needed via a ramdisk. IMMV. Jim Combs #40192 N312F ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2005
From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)core.com>
Subject: RE: Cold air induction?????
>Lycoming and others preheat the air for a reason. Those who >fly high or in northern climates need to have the air tempered >to have even and complete combustion. Like all things in aviation >you need to give up something to get something. Just some thoughts >for you to consider. This is only valid on carbureted engines. When Lycoming added fuel injection to their then 50 year old designed engines, then just left the induction system the same rather than re-work it. There is no reason that I know of to have the AIR pre-heated in a fuel injected gasoline engine. William http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Indran Chelvanayagam" <ichelva(at)netspace.net.au>
Subject: Update from OSH
Date: Aug 05, 2005
The Precision FADEC system definitely works - apparently Embry-Riddle is using it on their 172s, with significant fuel savings. The system usually operates slightly rich of best economy, except for high throttle settings (can't remember exactly - possibly >75%?), when it goes to best power. The ideal solution would be individualised fuel flow for each cylinder - would be difficult to do based on preset curves, and therefore would need individual EGTs to determine the correct fuel-air ratio. Dunno what happens in the cars -anyone else have the answer? Indran _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend Subject: RE: RV10-List: Update from OSH If they've got accurate Fuel Flow, it might work okay for them. Each engine has a curve of what the best economy and best power fuel flow rates are for any given power setting of the engine. So theoretically you can do a lookup based on the current power and the FADEC can set the mixture to the correct FF for that power. EGT has traditionally been used because it was easily measured and analyzed by the pilot. You couldn't very easily read a graph and interpolate fuel flow point in the cockpit very well - no problem for a computer, though. Question: Do you get to choose Best Economy or Best Power, or how does the FADEC decide which you want? I've often wondered what the FADEC in my car is doing - Economy or Power? TDT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Indran Chelvanayagam Subject: Re: RV10-List: Update from OSH Brian, in response to your query regarding the Precison EMS/FADEC system - yes, they are planning a 6 cyl version. HOWEVER .... After sitting through a 60 min presentation, it was revealed that this system is not "closed loop" - ie it does not have EGT probes. It has CHT probes, but only uses this info as a failsafe, to move the mixture to full rich if CHT rises too high. So the EMS takes only manifold pressure and RPM, and empirically adjusts mixture - IMHO a less satisfactory method than using EGTs/CHTs. But it will be cheap - "slightly more" than the cost of 2 Mags + coils etc. Indran Chelvanayagam #40228 Bunbury, Western Australia (temporarily relocated to OSH) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Cold air induction?????
Date: Aug 05, 2005
Don't forget that the angle valve engine has a hemispherical combustion chamber while the parallel valve does not. I think you will find that a large percentage of the horsepower increase is due to the inherent effeciency of the hemi head. ----- Original Message ----- From: William Curtis To: dan(at)rvproject.com ; rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 10:13 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Cold air induction????? >William, > >While you're technically correct that the intake runs "through the sump," on my > IO-360-A1B6 the intake section of the sump is below the chamber where the oil > sits. > >On an O-360-A1A, the intake tubes literally run *through* hot oil. > >My IO-360-A1B6 has a stock compression ratio of 8.7:1. Dan Hmm, I don't believe that this is a stock sump/induction then. I also have the certified angle valve IO-360 A1B6D in my Cardinal 177RG and the intake definitely goes through the sump. You are correct on the compression ratio of the angle valve IO-360, but the parallel valve I/O-360 only has a compression ration of 8.5:1. That, and better valve porting is the primary reason for the 20 additional horsepower. William http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cold air induction?????
Date: Aug 05, 2005
From: "BPA" <BPA(at)bpaengines.com>
William, The angle head cylinder also has a bigger intake and exhaust valve. The stem diameters are the same, but the heads are quite a bit larger. Allen Barrett BPE, Inc. www.barrettprecisionengines.com <http://www.barrettprecisionengines.com/> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis Subject: RV10-List: Re: Cold air induction????? >William, > >While you're technically correct that the intake runs "through the sump," on my > IO-360-A1B6 the intake section of the sump is below the chamber where the oil > sits. > >On an O-360-A1A, the intake tubes literally run *through* hot oil. > >My IO-360-A1B6 has a stock compression ratio of 8.7:1. Dan Hmm, I don't believe that this is a stock sump/induction then. I also have the certified angle valve IO-360 A1B6D in my Cardinal 177RG and the intake definitely goes through the sump. You are correct on the compression ratio of the angle valve IO-360, but the parallel valve I/O-360 only has a compression ration of 8.5:1. That, and better valve porting is the primary reason for the 20 additional horsepower. William http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 05, 2005
Subject: RV-10 MT Propeller Group Buy
Hi RV-10 builders, If you are at a point in your RV-10 project where you will need to have a propeller on hand in 2 1/2 months, this would be the time to be included in this group buy. The group buy price is $7,100 plus shipping. For delivery disassembled to the closest MT assembly facility, the group buy price is $7,430. Van's Aircraft price for the same delivery is $8,060. For an assembled propeller delivered to the closest international airport, the group buy price is $8,150. Regards, Jim Ayers This is a group buy for the RV-10 MT Propeller only. Please do not forward to other email groups. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2005
From: "Jim Combs" <jimc(at)mail.infra-read.com>
Subject: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot
Jesse, It's not so much that the units won't work. There may be significantly higher failure rates at the higher altitudes. So what if the system that dies is the moving map code. Not too much of a problem, at 18,000 feet, not too much to run into and most likely not an issue. But if the code that dies is the navigation code and is providing the steering commands to the A/P then you have a different issue altogether. The issues of using the hard drive above 10K may have to do with spin up and spin down. If the drive is already in operation, then higher altitudes may not be an issue. I know I don't know the answers. Jim Combs #40192 ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 11:16:11 -0400 This would be quite a handicap, though, as this plane loves to fly between 10,000 and 18,000. I also agree that the fact that the drives don't support higher altitudes doesn't mean they won't handle it. I spend a lot of time in Quito, Ecuador, which is above 10,000 feet and they all use normal computers without trouble. I haven't seen one working at 18,000, however. Next time we are going to be up that high I will take my laptop and try it out. If it dies, then we know that it isn't a good idea. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Combs Subject: Re: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot I have the specs for IBM and Toshiba hard drives. They DO have a maximum altitude of 10K for operation. I don't know the exact reasons why. Using solid state hard drives is an easy solution. Also there is absolutly no reason you can't command the drive to spin down if you see the altitude exceeding 10K feet. Data can be cached in DRAM or on flash drives. For those intending to use PC based platforms in your aricraft, you need to account for hard drive limitations. Go solid state on the drives or put in lots of ram and cache data that might be needed via a ramdisk. IMMV. Jim Combs #40192 N312F ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Cold air induction?????
Date: Aug 05, 2005
They actually did change the intake system from the carb'd O-360 to the FI'd IO-360-A...the induction is "tuned" on the IO-360-A series. http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage/support/publications/keyReprints/general/myth.html )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: William Curtis To: RV10-List(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 8:24 AM Subject: RV10-List: RE: Cold air induction????? >Lycoming and others preheat the air for a reason. Those who >fly high or in northern climates need to have the air tempered >to have even and complete combustion. Like all things in aviation >you need to give up something to get something. Just some thoughts >for you to consider. This is only valid on carbureted engines. When Lycoming added fuel injection to their then 50 year old designed engines, then just left the induction system the same rather than re-work it. There is no reason that I know of to have the AIR pre-heated in a fuel injected gasoline engine. William http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net>
Subject: MT Propeller Controller
Date: Aug 05, 2005
Hi Jim, It was good to finally get to meet and get acquainted at Oshkosh last week. Are you still planning on being at Front Range next week? It would be great if we could get together there and try out the 2700RPM controller on my TIGER. What day would you be available? I should be available for a day between the 10'th and the 15'th. Best Regards, Ned Thomas 405 360-4298 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot
Date: Aug 05, 2005
What we could do, is design a plexi box to pump up to 14 psi, and put a heatsink on it and blow air across it, as we are not worried about the fan failing rather the hard drive heads hitting the platter. Like sneakers, we could put the little pump with a relief valve that was set at 14? -----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Subject: RE: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot This would be quite a handicap, though, as this plane loves to fly between 10,000 and 18,000. I also agree that the fact that the drives don't support higher altitudes doesn't mean they won't handle it. I spend a lot of time in Quito, Ecuador, which is above 10,000 feet and they all use normal computers without trouble. I haven't seen one working at 18,000, however. Next time we are going to be up that high I will take my laptop and try it out. If it dies, then we know that it isn't a good idea. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Combs Subject: Re: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot I have the specs for IBM and Toshiba hard drives. They DO have a maximum altitude of 10K for operation. I don't know the exact reasons why. Using solid state hard drives is an easy solution. Also there is absolutly no reason you can't command the drive to spin down if you see the altitude exceeding 10K feet. Data can be cached in DRAM or on flash drives. For those intending to use PC based platforms in your aricraft, you need to account for hard drive limitations. Go solid state on the drives or put in lots of ram and cache data that might be needed via a ramdisk. IMMV. Jim Combs #40192 N312F ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2005
From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)core.com>
Subject: Re: Exterior lighting choices - followup
> >Anh, >Which kit did you use? The 60 watt 4 head X-Pack kit? (except for the >mounting bracket it looks just like the creative air system). >Are you using the Whelen tail strobe/position light in the tail? Im going with the X-Pack 604. Ive ordered my wiring and strobe bulbs from them. Ill order the power supply shortly. The rear combination nav light and strobe bulb I ordered from Vans. After watching the planes depart OSH last week, Ive decided that I want the wing strobe lights to be outside the wingtip cutout and thus separate from the navigation light. When they are placed in the wingtip cutout, they are not visible from the rear. I know the single rear strobe bulb is facing rear but I found the planes that had the wingtip strobe bulbs visible from the rear were much easier to see than those that just had the single tail mounted bulb. I picked up a pair (both Red and Green) of navigation lights (no bulb) from B&B aircraft supply for $75. These will go inside the wingtip cutout. Ill get lens covers for the strobe bulbs and mount them on the side of the wingtips. William Curtis #40237 - wings http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2005
From: Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net>
Subject: [ANN] RV-10 Wiki
The RV-10 Wiki <http://www.rv10wiki.com> is now up and running. I have populated a few sections from various sites to give it a little jump start. What is needed most is probably further population of the Builder Tips section. Based on the recent stream of spam occurring on wiki sites, I have it setup to require a login for editing pages. This won't prevent ALL issues, but it will prevent the majority. Login creation is painless and no personal information is required. Just takes a few seconds of your time. This is an experiment at this stage. If it takes off, and people continue to find it useful, then it will stay up. If not, then no harm done. That being said, in order for it to be useful, the community is responsible for making it useful. So, if you have a good Builder Tip or just some useful piece of information, get in there and edit away. Please see <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing> for a general overview of editing wiki pages. Thanks... Sean #40303 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: FADEC TMX-540
Date: Aug 05, 2005
See www.fadec.com Mattituck should have a TMX-IOF-540 soon, using this system. Perfect fit for the RV-10. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot
Date: Aug 05, 2005
From: "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com>
That is what they say, but I have talked with many people that have taken them to 18,000 ft. and I have talked with two people that had their hard drives crash around 20,000 ft. So the 12 - 18K range should be fine. Scott Schmidt sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Echols Subject: Re: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot I believe the hard drives in the Motion Computing tablet PC are limited to 10,000' (operating). Something to keep in mind... http://www.motioncomputing.com/products/tablet_pc_ls800.asp -Kevin --- Larry Rosen wrote: > > If you are going with a PC based weather system I strongly recommend the > Motion Computing tablet PC. My neighbor has it and in bright sunlight > it is dramatically clearer than my Compaq tablet. But neither are as > good as the panel mounted displays. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Subject: The 12th 10
Date: Aug 05, 2005
I see on Vans site that the 12th RV-10 is flying. Any ideas who it is? Jeff Carpenter 40304 Finishing the Tail Cone Starting Inventory on the Wing Kit ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2005
From: James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net>
Subject: Re: The 12th 10
Jeff, How big are the crates for the wing kit and about how much do they weigh? I expect my wing kit (slow build) towards the end of the month. -Jim 40384 (2nd attempt at trim tabs this weekend...) Jeff Carpenter wrote: > > I see on Vans site that the 12th RV-10 is flying. Any ideas who it is? > > Jeff Carpenter > 40304 > Finishing the Tail Cone > Starting Inventory on the Wing Kit > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Subject: Re: The 12th 10
Date: Aug 05, 2005
Crate 1 is 11" x 32" x 8' 8" Crate 2 is 11" x 12" x 14' 2" Total weight between the 2 is 492 lbs On Aug 5, 2005, at 1:02 PM, James Hein wrote: > > Jeff, > How big are the crates for the wing kit and about how much do > they weigh? > I expect my wing kit (slow build) towards the end of the month. > > -Jim 40384 (2nd attempt at trim tabs this weekend...) > > Jeff Carpenter wrote: > > >> >> >> I see on Vans site that the 12th RV-10 is flying. Any ideas who >> it is? >> >> Jeff Carpenter >> 40304 >> Finishing the Tail Cone >> Starting Inventory on the Wing Kit >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark & Kelly" <eyedocs1(at)swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot
Date: Aug 05, 2005
On the Cirrus forum alot of people are using the Motion tablet w/ Airgator or Weather Worx. Several have reported hard drive failures, but it seems they were all over 13000'. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot > > > That is what they say, but I have talked with many people that have > taken them to 18,000 ft. and I have talked with two people that had > their hard drives crash around 20,000 ft. > > So the 12 - 18K range should be fine. > > Scott Schmidt > sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Echols > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 10:25 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot > > > I believe the hard drives in the Motion Computing tablet PC are limited > to > 10,000' (operating). Something to keep in mind... > > http://www.motioncomputing.com/products/tablet_pc_ls800.asp > > -Kevin > > --- Larry Rosen wrote: > >> >> If you are going with a PC based weather system I strongly recommend > the >> Motion Computing tablet PC. My neighbor has it and in bright sunlight > >> it is dramatically clearer than my Compaq tablet. But neither are as >> good as the panel mounted displays. > > > ____________________________________________________ > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: The 12th 10
I've got some of the crating info posted here: http://www.myrv10.com/tips/workarea.html Van's also has a sheet somewhere that shows all crate and box sizes and weights. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Current project: Fuselage Jeff Carpenter wrote: > > Crate 1 is 11" x 32" x 8' 8" > > Crate 2 is 11" x 12" x 14' 2" > > Total weight between the 2 is 492 lbs > > > On Aug 5, 2005, at 1:02 PM, James Hein wrote: > >> >> Jeff, >> How big are the crates for the wing kit and about how much do they >> weigh? >> I expect my wing kit (slow build) towards the end of the month. >> >> -Jim 40384 (2nd attempt at trim tabs this weekend...) >> >> Jeff Carpenter wrote: >> >> >>> >>> >>> I see on Vans site that the 12th RV-10 is flying. Any ideas who it is? >>> >>> Jeff Carpenter >>> 40304 >>> Finishing the Tail Cone >>> Starting Inventory on the Wing Kit >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian" <av8er(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Update from OSH - Precision EMS
Date: Aug 05, 2005
Thanks for the information from the forum. After making it to the Precision booth and asking questions about the system, it doesn't appear to come anywhere close to the Areosance FADEC system. ----- Original Message ----- From: Indran Chelvanayagam To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 5:29 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Update from OSH Brian, in response to your query regarding the Precison EMS/FADEC system - yes, they are planning a 6 cyl version. HOWEVER .... After sitting through a 60 min presentation, it was revealed that this system is not "closed loop" - ie it does not have EGT probes. It has CHT probes, but only uses this info as a failsafe, to move the mixture to full rich if CHT rises too high. So the EMS takes only manifold pressure and RPM, and empirically adjusts mixture - IMHO a less satisfactory method than using EGTs/CHTs. But it will be cheap - "slightly more" than the cost of 2 Mags + coils etc. Indran Chelvanayagam #40228 Bunbury, Western Australia (temporarily relocated to OSH) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2005
From: AI Nut <ainut(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot
Motion makes a large difference here. If your PC in CO is a desktop, there is low risk. If you have that PC moving around in an RV or airplane, the standard hard drive would probably not last long. Same with some displays. Lloyd, Daniel R. wrote: > >I learned this from the list, and I have been a hardware geek for a long >time, All standard hard drives are ported to the air, they use pressure >from the spinning platters to float the heads, when you get above 10k >the air density is not enough to ensure that you will not get a head >strike with movement. Now with that being said and being from CO >originally, there was many days with the heat that density altitude was >above 10k on the ground and our PC's, desktop and laptop, did not stop >working, that is not to say that there was not a greater chance of >failure, just that the manufacture was only willing to warrant there >operation to 10k, which seems funny because most of the South West sits >at 6k plus and with heat you would have all kinds of DA problems if this >was true. >Dan > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Echols >Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 12:25 AM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Blue Mountain EFIS and Autopilot > > >I believe the hard drives in the Motion Computing tablet PC are limited >to >10,000' (operating). Something to keep in mind... > >http://www.motioncomputing.com/products/tablet_pc_ls800.asp > >-Kevin > >--- Larry Rosen wrote: > > > >> >>If you are going with a PC based weather system I strongly recommend >> >> >the > > >>Motion Computing tablet PC. My neighbor has it and in bright sunlight >> >> > > > >>it is dramatically clearer than my Compaq tablet. But neither are as >>good as the panel mounted displays. >> >> > > > >____________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > >. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: GrandRapids EFIS
Date: Aug 05, 2005
From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
0.06 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_BODY BODY: HTML contains text after BODY close tag Hey all - On the subject of cool glass panels, after a bunch of research, pretty much everything short of seeing one in person, I really like the Grand Rapids stuff. One thing that I'm not sure of however, is the resolution. Any of you folks that made it out to OSH, can you shed some light here for me? Is the resolution of the Horizon as low as I think it is? I'm just not sure I can live with the low resolution, when there's such good looking stuff out there. What I've seen of the screen shots just looks blocky to me, but the functionality appears to be excellent. Thoughts? cj Current project: Elevator Trim Tabs www.perfectlygoodairplane.net <http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2005
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: GrandRapids EFIS
Stein, had two panels on display @ OSH (one of them Tims) Tim's had the Cheltons and the other the GRT's, the difference in resolution was 'dramatic' (my words), I had some interest in the GRT primarily because of the price. I also stopped by their booth and asked some questions about what their future plans were, One of the interesting things that came out of that discussion was the fact that they are constrained by the processor they are using, and said that they will never be able to do the terain avoidance in 3d like Chelton and BMA, because they don't have the processor bandwidth. that comment gave me some unrest as to the future 'elasticity' of their product. Software is just a matter of time/labor, I feel that most of the vendors will copy/emulate what ever proves to be selling/hot by their competitors , but if they have some hardware issues that would require system redesign, that might bode poorly for future exapabability. Deems Davis #406 tailcone Chris Johnston wrote: > Hey all > > On the subject of cool glass panels, after a bunch of research, pretty > much everything short of seeing one in person, I really like the Grand > Rapids stuff. One thing that Im not sure of however, is the > resolution. Any of you folks that made it out to OSH, can you shed > some light here for me? Is the resolution of the Horizon as low as I > think it is? Im just not sure I can live with the low resolution, > when theres such good looking stuff out there. What Ive seen of the > screen shots just looks blocky to me, but the functionality appears to > be excellent. Thoughts? > > cj > > Current project: Elevator Trim Tabs > > www.perfectlygoodairplane.net <http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/> > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GenGrumpy(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 05, 2005
Subject: For Tim Olson
From: GenGrumpy(at)aol.com Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 23:13:23 EDT Subject: Re: RV10-List: For Tim Olson -------------------------------1123298003 Tim, Are your jugsnew jugs or just chromed the old ones to standard? With overhauled jugs you may have one with 10,000 hours on it. John In a message dated 8/4/2005 10:26:43 PM Central Standard Time, Gen Grumpy writes: Many thanks, Tim. Working hard now to find the right motor.....found a guy in TX to build me a custom c/s prop designed for speed. Probably take 3-5 months for him to finish it off. I'm really interested in what you think of your motor once you get it mounted and running. I liked the roller/rods Lyc finally got around to using at Osh, just have a hard time coughing up the amount of cash they want..... The Mattituck website looks most interesting, but don't have any history on them. I, too, settled on the Chelton's at Osh after looking over GRT and BMT both. Still debating on whether to use Dynon or BMT sport as my backup ADI. I am not going to use a vacuum pump at all, and want the redundancy for IMC work. So.....any light you can shed on your motor once you have done some tinkering would be helpful, especially going to dual lightspeeds......? -------------------------------1123298003 Tim, Are your jugsnew jugs or just chromed the old ones to standard?With overhauled jugs you may have one with 10,000 hours on it. John In a message dated 8/4/2005 10:26:43 PM Central Standard Time, Gen Grumpy writes: Many thanks, Tim. Working hard now to find the right motor.....found a guy in TX to build me a custom c/s prop designed for speed.=20Probably take 3-5 months for him to finish it off. I'm really interested in what you think of=20your motor once you get it mounted and running. I liked the roller/rods Lyc finally got around to using at Osh, just have a hard time coughing up the amount of cash they want..... The Mattituck website looks most interesting, but don't have any history on them. I, too, settled on the Chelton's at Osh after looking over GRT and BMT both. Still debating on whether to use Dynon or BMT sport as my backup ADI. I am not going to use a vacuum pump=20at all, and want the redundancy for IMC work. So.....any light you can shed on your motor once you have done some tinkering would be helpful, especially going to dual lightspeeds......? -------------------------------1123298003-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: Exterior lighting choices - followup
Date: Aug 06, 2005
Larry, That's correct - 60W... and Whelen tail strobe/pos through Van's. I bought mine some time back when they had a special on the strobe kit for $150 or thereabout. v/r, Anh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Rosen" <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Exterior lighting choices - followup > > > Anh, > Which kit did you use? The 60 watt 4 head X-Pack kit? (except for the > mounting bracket it looks just like the creative air system). > Are you using the Whelen tail strobe/position light in the tail? > > Larry > http://rv10pilot.home.comcast.net/ > > DejaVu wrote: > > > You may want to check out the strobe kit I use at > > http://www.strobesnmore.com . Single unit power pack, 4 strobe tubes, > > shielded wires, connectors. > > Anh > > #141 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* RV Builder (Michael Sausen) > > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > > *Sent:* Thursday, August 04, 2005 12:18 PM > > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Exterior lighting choices - followup > > > > If anyone is interested here is what I decided on: > > > > - CreativAir's 3 strobe kit: > > <http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=36 > > <http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=36>> > > > > - Whelen tail strobe/position from Vans as it seems to be the only > > one that fits the small spot in the fairing: > > http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1123168358-134-558&bro wse=lighting&product=a555/500light > > <http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1123168358-134-558&br owse=lighting&product=a555/500light>. > > > > - Bill Dubes rectangular LED Nav lights: > > http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=61 > > <http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=61> > > > > The LED light on the CreativAir's sight doesn't list the assembled > > version so I have an email into Bill Vondane to find out if he > > just forgot to add it. I can always get the assembled version > > direct from Bill Dube for $5 less. Grand total for this will be > > around $740 without shipping. The equivalent Whelen system from > > Van's (System 6) using conventional nav lights is $780. So I only > > save $40 but I get a, hopefully, more reliable system that uses > > less power. > > > > Michael Sausen > > -10 #352 wings > > > > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *RV > > Builder (Michael Sausen) > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:16 PM > > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > > *Subject:* RV10-List: Exterior lighting choices > > > > Ok, I'm ordering accessories for the wings so I have them when I > > need them. Got the wing kit for Rob's AOA system, ordered the > > Duckworks HID and the aileron trim ($275 in case anyone is > > wondering) from Van's. Still need to order the pitot tube, > > probably be the Gretz. Now I'm trying to decide on who to use for > > my strobes/LED nav lights. Whelen is out because of the cost. So > > this leaves me; Aeroflash, CreativAir, and GS-Air. Of course none > > of them were at Airventure. > > > > First question, how many people out there experienced any problems > > with the strobes being powered from a central power supply? If I > > end up getting strobes with a central supply I will probably run > > the power leads in a dedicated conduit as far away from the other > > leads, including the Archer Nav coax, as possible. I would prefer > > strobes run from local power supplies but Aeroflash is the only > > option of the three for this and I still need to price them out. > > I'll probably get the Aeroflash for the tail strobe either way but > > I need to check the flange dimensions so I can make sure it fit's ok. > > > > Does anyone have any preference between GS-Air or Creativ-Air? > > They are both similar and pretty much the same cost. Anyone > > currently using any of the above that can give us a pirep? > > > > Michael Sausen > > -10 #352 wings > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: Exterior lighting choices - followup
Date: Aug 06, 2005
By the way, check the replacement price on the strobe tubes themselves. Anh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Rosen" <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Exterior lighting choices - followup > > > Anh, > Which kit did you use? The 60 watt 4 head X-Pack kit? (except for the > mounting bracket it looks just like the creative air system). > Are you using the Whelen tail strobe/position light in the tail? > > Larry > http://rv10pilot.home.comcast.net/ > > DejaVu wrote: > > > You may want to check out the strobe kit I use at > > http://www.strobesnmore.com . Single unit power pack, 4 strobe tubes, > > shielded wires, connectors. > > Anh > > #141 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* RV Builder (Michael Sausen) > > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > > *Sent:* Thursday, August 04, 2005 12:18 PM > > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Exterior lighting choices - followup > > > > If anyone is interested here is what I decided on: > > > > - CreativAir's 3 strobe kit: > > <http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=36 > > <http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=36>> > > > > - Whelen tail strobe/position from Vans as it seems to be the only > > one that fits the small spot in the fairing: > > http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1123168358-134-558&bro wse=lighting&product=a555/500light > > <http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1123168358-134-558&br owse=lighting&product=a555/500light>. > > > > - Bill Dubes rectangular LED Nav lights: > > http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=61 > > <http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=61> > > > > The LED light on the CreativAir's sight doesn't list the assembled > > version so I have an email into Bill Vondane to find out if he > > just forgot to add it. I can always get the assembled version > > direct from Bill Dube for $5 less. Grand total for this will be > > around $740 without shipping. The equivalent Whelen system from > > Van's (System 6) using conventional nav lights is $780. So I only > > save $40 but I get a, hopefully, more reliable system that uses > > less power. > > > > Michael Sausen > > -10 #352 wings > > > > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *RV > > Builder (Michael Sausen) > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:16 PM > > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > > *Subject:* RV10-List: Exterior lighting choices > > > > Ok, I'm ordering accessories for the wings so I have them when I > > need them. Got the wing kit for Rob's AOA system, ordered the > > Duckworks HID and the aileron trim ($275 in case anyone is > > wondering) from Van's. Still need to order the pitot tube, > > probably be the Gretz. Now I'm trying to decide on who to use for > > my strobes/LED nav lights. Whelen is out because of the cost. So > > this leaves me; Aeroflash, CreativAir, and GS-Air. Of course none > > of them were at Airventure. > > > > First question, how many people out there experienced any problems > > with the strobes being powered from a central power supply? If I > > end up getting strobes with a central supply I will probably run > > the power leads in a dedicated conduit as far away from the other > > leads, including the Archer Nav coax, as possible. I would prefer > > strobes run from local power supplies but Aeroflash is the only > > option of the three for this and I still need to price them out. > > I'll probably get the Aeroflash for the tail strobe either way but > > I need to check the flange dimensions so I can make sure it fit's ok. > > > > Does anyone have any preference between GS-Air or Creativ-Air? > > They are both similar and pretty much the same cost. Anyone > > currently using any of the above that can give us a pirep? > > > > Michael Sausen > > -10 #352 wings > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: Exterior lighting choices - followup
Date: Aug 06, 2005
If you do decide to go with strobesnmore, the kit comes with four 15ft shielded wires. I found that this is just enough to make runs from the wing tips to the roots with little to spare. Depending on your set up (with or without connectors at the wing roots) the supplied wires may or may not be long enough for you. So you'd want to look at other lengths that they offer. See if you need extra connectors also. They have those too. Anh #141 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Rosen" <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Exterior lighting choices - followup > > > Anh, > Which kit did you use? The 60 watt 4 head X-Pack kit? (except for the > mounting bracket it looks just like the creative air system). > Are you using the Whelen tail strobe/position light in the tail? > > Larry > http://rv10pilot.home.comcast.net/ > > DejaVu wrote: > > > You may want to check out the strobe kit I use at > > http://www.strobesnmore.com . Single unit power pack, 4 strobe tubes, > > shielded wires, connectors. > > Anh > > #141 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* RV Builder (Michael Sausen) > > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > > *Sent:* Thursday, August 04, 2005 12:18 PM > > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Exterior lighting choices - followup > > > > If anyone is interested here is what I decided on: > > > > - CreativAir's 3 strobe kit: > > <http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=36 > > <http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=36>> > > > > - Whelen tail strobe/position from Vans as it seems to be the only > > one that fits the small spot in the fairing: > > http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1123168358-134-558&bro wse=lighting&product=a555/500light > > <http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1123168358-134-558&br owse=lighting&product=a555/500light>. > > > > - Bill Dubes rectangular LED Nav lights: > > http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=61 > > <http://www.creativair.com/cva/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=61> > > > > The LED light on the CreativAir's sight doesn't list the assembled > > version so I have an email into Bill Vondane to find out if he > > just forgot to add it. I can always get the assembled version > > direct from Bill Dube for $5 less. Grand total for this will be > > around $740 without shipping. The equivalent Whelen system from > > Van's (System 6) using conventional nav lights is $780. So I only > > save $40 but I get a, hopefully, more reliable system that uses > > less power. > > > > Michael Sausen > > -10 #352 wings > > > > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *RV > > Builder (Michael Sausen) > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:16 PM > > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > > *Subject:* RV10-List: Exterior lighting choices > > > > Ok, I'm ordering accessories for the wings so I have them when I > > need them. Got the wing kit for Rob's AOA system, ordered the > > Duckworks HID and the aileron trim ($275 in case anyone is > > wondering) from Van's. Still need to order the pitot tube, > > probably be the Gretz. Now I'm trying to decide on who to use for > > my strobes/LED nav lights. Whelen is out because of the cost. So > > this leaves me; Aeroflash, CreativAir, and GS-Air. Of course none > > of them were at Airventure. > > > > First question, how many people out there experienced any problems > > with the strobes being powered from a central power supply? If I > > end up getting strobes with a central supply I will probably run > > the power leads in a dedicated conduit as far away from the other > > leads, including the Archer Nav coax, as possible. I would prefer > > strobes run from local power supplies but Aeroflash is the only > > option of the three for this and I still need to price them out. > > I'll probably get the Aeroflash for the tail strobe either way but > > I need to check the flange dimensions so I can make sure it fit's ok. > > > > Does anyone have any preference between GS-Air or Creativ-Air? > > They are both similar and pretty much the same cost. Anyone > > currently using any of the above that can give us a pirep? > > > > Michael Sausen > > -10 #352 wings > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: GrandRapids EFIS
Date: Aug 06, 2005
You can look on Tim Olson's web page under OSH 2005 photos and he has a picture of my GRT 3 Screen EFIS panel and his panel 3 Screen Chelton panel: http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/OSH2005/P200507260009.html Tim's panel on the right hand side. Naturally Tim, who is otherwise a really great guy, would get his entire panel fully displayed in the picture. I am not sure a solo picture of my panel which I have attempted in insert will go through: Stein is building the panel and the center EFIS is the GRT Sport. Notice no round gauges. The instruments have been taken back out and the lower panel is being cut for the switches, ect. and then the two part panel will have a dark red Kavlar reinforced fabric overlay before the instruments are reinstalled. When finished I will post a completed picture. Those are RV grins by the way. Russ Daves N710RV Reserved - #40044 Fuselage on main gear N65RV RV-6A Sold ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 2005
From: Dj Merrill <deej(at)thayer.dartmouth.edu>
Subject: Re: Compressor needs
LIKE2LOOP(at)aol.com wrote: > I want to know from those that are using a 120v compressor if it > will work or if 220v is needed? > > Also what size tank is the minimum to avoid constant compressor > run. Thanks for any help getting me started. > > Steve Hi Steve, I'm using a 120v compressor (actually it is a dual voltage, can use either 120v or 220v). I don't have 220v available, so it was a necessity for me. I spent several weeks researching compressors, and with the help from this list and others, I chose a Campbell Hausfeld VT6315 unit sold through Home Depot under the Husky brand name. Go to www.homedepot.com, enter in VT6315 in the search in the upper right of the page. So far it has worked very well for me. One of the critical things for me was the 120v, and it was the quietest unit I could find that had the performance that I needed. Some stats: - 135 PSI maximum pressure and air delivery 6.6/5.8 SCFM @ 40/90 PSI - CAST IRON pump - 26 Gallon vertical tank Hope this helps, -Dj ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Compressor needs
I'll regurgitate an old post.... ------ I can't comment on that exact model, but I recently purchased a similar compressor. It's the VT6271, which is a 26 gal. twin cylinder cast iron (240V only -- 15A) oil lube that puts out 10.3@90PSI (11.8@40PSI) for only $349 directly from Campbell-Hausfeld. This compressor is really just the motor/pump from their vertical 60gal. model placed on the 26gal. horizontal tank. It works great for me so far and is much quieter than the oil-less one I replaced. You have to call them and ask for that price (it's cheaper than their website listing). Their number is 1-888-CHPOWER. ------ I've just been loving the compressor. I think DJ did a good job going with a dual-voltage model, even though he doesn't have 220V avalailable....more options for the future. I can say though, that if you have the opportunity to use 220V, don't even consider anything less. You'll really want about 10cfm available for both painting, and for any die-grinder type tools that really hog the air. For riveting, almost anything would work. Ideally, and best bang for the buck, the Husky upright 60gallons at Home Depot have the same pump as mine, with a bigger tank. I think that would be about perfect if you have space. Otherwise, 25+ gallons would do fine for most things. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Dj Merrill wrote: > > LIKE2LOOP(at)aol.com wrote: > > >> I want to know from those that are using a 120v compressor if it >>will work or if 220v is needed? >> >> Also what size tank is the minimum to avoid constant compressor >>run. Thanks for any help getting me started. >> >>Steve > > > Hi Steve, > I'm using a 120v compressor (actually it is a > dual voltage, can use either 120v or 220v). I don't > have 220v available, so it was a necessity for me. > I spent several weeks researching compressors, and with > the help from this list and others, I chose a > Campbell Hausfeld VT6315 unit sold through > Home Depot under the Husky brand name. > Go to www.homedepot.com, enter in VT6315 > in the search in the upper right of the page. > So far it has worked very well for me. > One of the critical things for me was the 120v, and it > was the quietest unit I could find that had the > performance that I needed. > > Some stats: > - 135 PSI maximum pressure and air delivery 6.6/5.8 SCFM @ 40/90 PSI > - CAST IRON pump > - 26 Gallon vertical tank > > Hope this helps, > > -Dj > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: The 12th 10
Date: Aug 06, 2005
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
You can easily get it off with a 3-4 guys, no need for heavy equipment. Also, you can find size and weights of all the crates on Van's site. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Main Spars -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter Subject: Re: RV10-List: The 12th 10 Crate 1 is 11" x 32" x 8' 8" Crate 2 is 11" x 12" x 14' 2" Total weight between the 2 is 492 lbs On Aug 5, 2005, at 1:02 PM, James Hein wrote: > > Jeff, > How big are the crates for the wing kit and about how much do they > weigh? > I expect my wing kit (slow build) towards the end of the month. > > -Jim 40384 (2nd attempt at trim tabs this weekend...) > > Jeff Carpenter wrote: > > >> >> >> I see on Vans site that the 12th RV-10 is flying. Any ideas who it >> is? >> >> Jeff Carpenter >> 40304 >> Finishing the Tail Cone >> Starting Inventory on the Wing Kit >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GenGrumpy(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 06, 2005
Subject: RV-10 MT Propeller Group Buy
I assume this is for the 3 bladed MT prop? How hard / how much assembly required? Does user assembly void or otherwise change the warranty? John Miller #40404 In a message dated 8/5/2005 10:39:22 AM Central Standard Time, LessDragProd(at)aol.com writes: Hi RV-10 builders, If you are at a point in your RV-10 project where you will need to have a propeller on hand in 2 1/2 months, this would be the time to be included in this group buy. The group buy price is $7,100 plus shipping. For delivery disassembled to the closest MT assembly facility, the group buy price is $7,430. Van's Aircraft price for the same delivery is $8,060. For an assembled propeller delivered to the closest international airport, the group buy price is $8,150. Regards, Jim Ayers This is a group buy for the RV-10 MT Propeller only. Please do not forward to other email groups. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 2005
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Help Crack on Aleron Gap Faring
When I attached the aileron gap fairing today, the bucking bar slipped off and I cracked the gap faring. The Spar is OK. Attached is a photo. It sure looks bad when it is magnified. :-( Any suggestions on what I can do, other than replace the gap faring? Larry Rosen http://rv10pilot.home.comcast.net/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Cutting Spinner to Go Over the Prop
Date: Aug 07, 2005
The instructions said to notch out the spinner to fit around the prop blades, and make sure that you have the clearance around the blades for all pitch angles. How do you move the prop blades? Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Prop Governor 101 please
Date: Aug 07, 2005
I understand the basic theory of operation behind the govenor and C/S prop. Looking at governor and down the engine crank today had me puzzled. How does the oil get to the governor (through that tube running crosswise to the crank?) and how does it get to the prop hub? (by pressuring the entire inside of the crank?) Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Cutting Spinner to Go Over the Prop
Date: Aug 06, 2005
http://rvproject.com/images/2003/20031219_cutting_spinner_openings.jpg I used one of those "strap wrench" dealies. Harbor Freight sells 'em for like 6 bucks. Just wrench it at the root of the blade. Works great. Might want to wrap your prop with masking tape, regardless of the method you choose, in the area where you're wangin on it. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber39898 If I recall, Van's recommended clamping two pieces of wood and yadda yadda yadda. Seemed clunky to me. The strap wrench method works every time and wood doesn't go flying every which way if it slips. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (583 hours) http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: DejaVu To: RV10 Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 9:34 PM Subject: RV10-List: Cutting Spinner to Go Over the Prop The instructions said to notch out the spinner to fit around the prop blades, and make sure that you have the clearance around the blades for all pitch angles. How do you move the prop blades? Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: Cutting Spinner to Go Over the Prop
Date: Aug 07, 2005
Great suggestion. Van's doesn't tell you how to do it at all. Thanks. Anh ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Checkoway To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 12:57 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Cutting Spinner to Go Over the Prop http://rvproject.com/images/2003/20031219_cutting_spinner_openings.jpg I used one of those "strap wrench" dealies. Harbor Freight sells 'em for like 6 bucks. Just wrench it at the root of the blade. Works great. Might want to wrap your prop with masking tape, regardless of the method you choose, in the area where you're wangin on it. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber39898 If I recall, Van's recommended clamping two pieces of wood and yadda yadda yadda. Seemed clunky to me. The strap wrench method works every time and wood doesn't go flying every which way if it slips. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (583 hours) http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: DejaVu To: RV10 Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 9:34 PM Subject: RV10-List: Cutting Spinner to Go Over the Prop The instructions said to notch out the spinner to fit around the prop blades, and make sure that you have the clearance around the blades for all pitch angles. How do you move the prop blades? Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net>
Subject: RE:
Date: Aug 07, 2005
0.06 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_BODY BODY: HTML contains text after BODY close tag How much, and what condition? _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of larry b Subject: I have an IO540-C1B5 for sale. 250hp. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Pneumatic Pop Riveter
Date: Aug 07, 2005
To all of you that do not yet have a pneumatic pop riveter, I recommend you switch over to your internet browser and go to the Harbor Freight website, www.harborfreight.com oddly enough, and order one as fast as you can type. It is on sale again now for $34.99 and has saved my hands numerous times, especially installing the floors in the fuselage. One of the rare times when a cheap tool actually works as advertised. The part number is 00167-1AKH and I checked the website and it works if you use the "Find Item Number:" area. I doubt you'll find something so useful for such a good deal. No, I don't have any affiliation with Harbor Freight, just glad I got this thing awhile ago. Marcus 40286 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 2005
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Pneumatic Pop Riveter
With the pneumatic pop riveter you can easily motivate others to help. Zach (my 7 year old) has spent the past 2 days helping me build. :-) He loves to use the pneumatic pop riveter. He pop riveted all the push tubes. Today he needed something to do so he spent the past 2 hours labeling trays for rivets and small parts and we are taking a break from clecoing up the bottom skin on the right wing. It taken a while for him to get his small hands around the cleco pliers but with practice he is getting better. How old do you need to be to get a repair man certificate? Maybe Zach should be the builder. Marcus Cooper wrote: > To all of you that do not yet have a pneumatic pop riveter, I > recommend you switch over to your internet browser and go to the > Harbor Freight website, www.harborfreight.com oddly enough, and order > one as fast as you can type. It is on sale again now for $34.99 and > has saved my hands numerous times, especially installing the floors in > the fuselage. One of the rare times when a cheap tool actually works > as advertised. The part number is 00167-1AKH and I checked the website > and it works if you use the Find Item Number: area. I doubt youll > find something so useful for such a good deal. No, I dont have any > affiliation with Harbor Freight, just glad I got this thing awhile ago. > > Marcus > > 40286 > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
Subject: Cutting Spinner to Go Over the Prop
Date: Aug 07, 2005
We used a couple of 2x4's screwed together at one end and slid it onto the blade and just twisted it. You will probably need one person to do this and another to make some marks or measurements. Another possibility would be to fire up the engine and use your governor control, but you would probably get dizzy and may put unnecessary loads on your prop and on your body. I would go with the first way. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Subject: RV10-List: Cutting Spinner to Go Over the Prop The instructions said to notch out the spinner to fit around the prop blades, and make sure that you have the clearance around the blades for all pitch angles. How do you move the prop blades? Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________ spamd4.ruraltel.net * -4.0 RCVD_FROM_NEXTECH_4 Message came from 63.163.37-39.x network * 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay * lines * 0.1 HTML_50_60 BODY: Message is 50% to 60% HTML * 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message * -0.8 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% * 0.1 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list
From: "Bill and Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net>
Subject: Extra parts?????
Date: Aug 08, 2005
I am working on my elevators and while looking for some parts last night I came across a part labeled VS-1016. It also has "#9" written on it with marker. That part was probably done by the previous builder. Anyway, I've looked completely through the builders manual and cannot even find mention of this part. I see parts up to # VS-1015 but not 1016. Does anybody know if this is possibly just an extra part or did the previous builder forget something??? Bill Britton RV-10 #40137 Elevators in Progress PS. I can take some pictures if anybody needs them. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Extra parts?????
Date: Aug 08, 2005
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Take a quick pic, visual always helps _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami Britton Subject: RV10-List: Extra parts????? I am working on my elevators and while looking for some parts last night I came across a part labeled VS-1016. It also has "#9" written on it with marker. That part was probably done by the previous builder. Anyway, I've looked completely through the builders manual and cannot even find mention of this part. I see parts up to # VS-1015 but not 1016. Does anybody know if this is possibly just an extra part or did the previous builder forget something??? Bill Britton RV-10 #40137 Elevators in Progress PS. I can take some pictures if anybody needs them. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net>
Subject: Extra parts?????
Date: Aug 08, 2005
It is the front attach point for the Vertical fin. Look in the section for tail assembly. It is not exactly extra you may want to keep it around a while longer Noel _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami Britton Subject: RV10-List: Extra parts????? I am working on my elevators and while looking for some parts last night I came across a part labeled VS-1016. It also has "#9" written on it with marker. That part was probably done by the previous builder. Anyway, I've looked completely through the builders manual and cannot even find mention of this part. I see parts up to # VS-1015 but not 1016. Does anybody know if this is possibly just an extra part or did the previous builder forget something??? Bill Britton RV-10 #40137 Elevators in Progress PS. I can take some pictures if anybody needs them. ________________________________________________________________________________ spamd3.ruraltel.net * -4.0 RCVD_FROM_NEXTECH_4 Message came from 63.163.37-39.x network * 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay * lines * 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message * -0.8 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% * 0.2 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list
From: "Bill and Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net>
Subject: Re: Extra parts?????
Date: Aug 08, 2005
Here's a picture. Noel, where exactly did you find the part in the builders manual. I've looked completely through it and I guess I obviously overlooked it. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel & Yoshie Simmons To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 9:22 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Extra parts????? It is the front attach point for the Vertical fin. Look in the section for tail assembly. It is not exactly extra you may want to keep it around a while longer Noel From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami Britton Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 6:52 AM To: RV10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Extra parts????? I am working on my elevators and while looking for some parts last night I came across a part labeled VS-1016. It also has "#9" written on it with marker. That part was probably done by the previous builder. Anyway, I've looked completely through the builders manual and cannot even find mention of this part. I see parts up to # VS-1015 but not 1016. Does anybody know if this is possibly just an extra part or did the previous builder forget something??? Bill Britton RV-10 #40137 Elevators in Progress PS. I can take some pictures if anybody needs them. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net>
Subject: Extra parts?????
Date: Aug 08, 2005
11-5 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami Britton Subject: Re: RV10-List: Extra parts????? Here's a picture. Noel, where exactly did you find the part in the builders manual. I've looked completely through it and I guess I obviously overlooked it. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel <mailto:noel(at)blueskyaviation.net> & Yoshie Simmons Subject: RE: RV10-List: Extra parts????? It is the front attach point for the Vertical fin. Look in the section for tail assembly. It is not exactly extra you may want to keep it around a while longer Noel _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami Britton Subject: RV10-List: Extra parts????? I am working on my elevators and while looking for some parts last night I came across a part labeled VS-1016. It also has "#9" written on it with marker. That part was probably done by the previous builder. Anyway, I've looked completely through the builders manual and cannot even find mention of this part. I see parts up to # VS-1015 but not 1016. Does anybody know if this is possibly just an extra part or did the previous builder forget something??? Bill Britton RV-10 #40137 Elevators in Progress PS. I can take some pictures if anybody needs them. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Extra parts?????
Date: Aug 08, 2005
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
It is the attach point for the VS, look in the manual on VS attach to the HS. It is in chapter 11 page 4, left hand side of the page in the middle blown up section _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami Britton Subject: Re: RV10-List: Extra parts????? Here's a picture. Noel, where exactly did you find the part in the builders manual. I've looked completely through it and I guess I obviously overlooked it. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel & Yoshie Simmons <mailto:noel(at)blueskyaviation.net> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 9:22 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Extra parts????? It is the front attach point for the Vertical fin. Look in the section for tail assembly. It is not exactly extra you may want to keep it around a while longer Noel =09 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami Britton Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 6:52 AM To: RV10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Extra parts????? I am working on my elevators and while looking for some parts last night I came across a part labeled VS-1016. It also has "#9" written on it with marker. That part was probably done by the previous builder. Anyway, I've looked completely through the builders manual and cannot even find mention of this part. I see parts up to # VS-1015 but not 1016. Does anybody know if this is possibly just an extra part or did the previous builder forget something??? Bill Britton RV-10 #40137 Elevators in Progress PS. I can take some pictures if anybody needs them. ________________________________________________________________________________ spamd1.ruraltel.net * -4.0 RCVD_FROM_NEXTECH_4 Message came from 63.163.37-39.x network * 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay * lines * 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message * -1.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% * 0.6 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list
From: "Bill and Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net>
Subject: Re: Extra parts?????
Date: Aug 08, 2005
Thank you very much. I guess I just overlooked it. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Lloyd, Daniel R. To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 10:16 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Extra parts????? It is the attach point for the VS, look in the manual on VS attach to the HS. It is in chapter 11 page 4, left hand side of the page in the middle blown up section From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami Britton Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 10:34 AM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Extra parts????? Here's a picture. Noel, where exactly did you find the part in the builders manual. I've looked completely through it and I guess I obviously overlooked it. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel & Yoshie Simmons To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 9:22 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Extra parts????? It is the front attach point for the Vertical fin. Look in the section for tail assembly. It is not exactly extra you may want to keep it around a while longer Noel From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami Britton Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 6:52 AM To: RV10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Extra parts????? I am working on my elevators and while looking for some parts last night I came across a part labeled VS-1016. It also has "#9" written on it with marker. That part was probably done by the previous builder. Anyway, I've looked completely through the builders manual and cannot even find mention of this part. I see parts up to # VS-1015 but not 1016. Does anybody know if this is possibly just an extra part or did the previous builder forget something??? Bill Britton RV-10 #40137 Elevators in Progress PS. I can take some pictures if anybody needs them. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Extra parts?????
Date: Aug 08, 2005
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
You actually will have a few parts that get set aside until later kits. Obvious ones are the rear baggage wall but there's others that I can't recall right now. Bob #40105 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami Britton Subject: Re: RV10-List: Extra parts????? Thank you very much. I guess I just overlooked it. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Lloyd, Daniel R. <mailto:LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 10:16 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Extra parts????? It is the attach point for the VS, look in the manual on VS attach to the HS. It is in chapter 11 page 4, left hand side of the page in the middle blown up section =09 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami Britton Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 10:34 AM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Extra parts????? Here's a picture. Noel, where exactly did you find the part in the builders manual. I've looked completely through it and I guess I obviously overlooked it. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel & Yoshie Simmons To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 9:22 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Extra parts????? It is the front attach point for the Vertical fin. Look in the section for tail assembly. It is not exactly extra you may want to keep it around a while longer Noel =09 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami Britton Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 6:52 AM To: RV10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Extra parts????? I am working on my elevators and while looking for some parts last night I came across a part labeled VS-1016. It also has "#9" written on it with marker. That part was probably done by the previous builder. Anyway, I've looked completely through the builders manual and cannot even find mention of this part. I see parts up to # VS-1015 but not 1016. Does anybody know if this is possibly just an extra part or did the previous builder forget something??? Bill Britton RV-10 #40137 Elevators in Progress PS. I can take some pictures if anybody needs them. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cutting Spinner to Go Over the Prop
Date: Aug 08, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
I used 2 2x2's clamped to the prop. You can also make a porp paddle. Think of a paddle with a blade sized hole in the middle. That is what the porp builders. Also you can add some air pressure to the inside of the hub where the oil pressure goes to work it when it is on the engine. Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Subject: RV10-List: Cutting Spinner to Go Over the Prop The instructions said to notch out the spinner to fit around the prop blades, and make sure that you have the clearance around the blades for all pitch angles. How do you move the prop blades? Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Extra parts?????
Date: Aug 08, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Trust me, you will need it but not right now. Keep in your parts and one day it will come up. Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami Britton Subject: Re: RV10-List: Extra parts????? Here's a picture. Noel, where exactly did you find the part in the builders manual. I've looked completely through it and I guess I obviously overlooked it. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel & Yoshie Simmons <mailto:noel(at)blueskyaviation.net> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 9:22 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Extra parts????? It is the front attach point for the Vertical fin. Look in the section for tail assembly. It is not exactly extra you may want to keep it around a while longer Noel =09 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami Britton Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 6:52 AM To: RV10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Extra parts????? I am working on my elevators and while looking for some parts last night I came across a part labeled VS-1016. It also has "#9" written on it with marker. That part was probably done by the previous builder. Anyway, I've looked completely through the builders manual and cannot even find mention of this part. I see parts up to # VS-1015 but not 1016. Does anybody know if this is possibly just an extra part or did the previous builder forget something??? Bill Britton RV-10 #40137 Elevators in Progress PS. I can take some pictures if anybody needs them. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Kirkland" <jskirkland(at)webpipe.net>
Subject: Elevator Hinge Pin
Date: Aug 08, 2005
Page 9-19, Step #2: Bend the hinge pin.... Any danger of the pin cracking/fatiguing at those bends? They look awfully tight in the figure. Do we have a favorite way of bending it so it doesn't turn out ugly? John Kirkland #40333 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)cox.net>
Subject: Elevator Hinge Pin
Date: Aug 08, 2005
Heat with a propane torch until red, then bend. Carl Froehlich RV-8A (200 hrs) Dogwood Airpark (VA-42) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Kirkland Subject: RV10-List: Elevator Hinge Pin Page 9-19, Step #2: Bend the hinge pin.... Any danger of the pin cracking/fatiguing at those bends? They look awfully tight in the figure. Do we have a favorite way of bending it so it doesn't turn out ugly? John Kirkland #40333 ________________________________________________________________________________ spamd3.ruraltel.net * -4.0 RCVD_FROM_NEXTECH_4 Message came from 63.163.37-39.x network * 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay * lines * 0.1 HTML_80_90 BODY: Message is 80% to 90% HTML * 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message * -1.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% * 0.6 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list
From: "Bill and Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net>
Subject: Re: Extra parts?????
Date: Aug 08, 2005
Thanks for everybody's replies. I bought the tail kit secondhand from another builder. The VS and Rud were complete when I got it so It just kinda spooked me when I seen a part with a VS part number. Anyhow, all's well. Thanks again, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy DeBauw To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 6:38 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Extra parts????? Trust me, you will need it but not right now. Keep in your parts and one day it will come up. Randy From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami Britton Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 7:34 AM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Extra parts????? Here's a picture. Noel, where exactly did you find the part in the builders manual. I've looked completely through it and I guess I obviously overlooked it. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel & Yoshie Simmons To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 9:22 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Extra parts????? It is the front attach point for the Vertical fin. Look in the section for tail assembly. It is not exactly extra you may want to keep it around a while longer Noel From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami Britton Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 6:52 AM To: RV10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Extra parts????? I am working on my elevators and while looking for some parts last night I came across a part labeled VS-1016. It also has "#9" written on it with marker. That part was probably done by the previous builder. Anyway, I've looked completely through the builders manual and cannot even find mention of this part. I see parts up to # VS-1015 but not 1016. Does anybody know if this is possibly just an extra part or did the previous builder forget something??? Bill Britton RV-10 #40137 Elevators in Progress PS. I can take some pictures if anybody needs them. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2005
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator Hinge Pin
I just finished this and I used two air of pliers with duct tape covering the serrated edges so as not to leave marks on the pins, seems to work OK. My bends are just a tad less sharp as those in the figures, so signs of cracks or fatigue in the metal. Deems Davis #406 Tailcone John Kirkland wrote: > > Page 9-19, Step #2: Bend the hinge pin.... > Any danger of the pin cracking/fatiguing at those bends? They look > awfully tight in the figure. Do we have a favorite way of bending it > so it doesn't turn out ugly? > John Kirkland > #40333 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2005
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Riveting bottom wing skins
What has everyone done to ease the riveting of the bottom wing skins? Is it best to place the wing vertical in the stand and work from the floor to reach the farthest away rivets? I can't see how you could get into the rear spar with the wing flat on the bench. Any hints and suggestions? Did anyone manage to do it solo? Rick S. 40185 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cabn Top Lines
Date: Aug 09, 2005
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
I'm just about ready to trm the cabin top and don't have any scribe lines where the forward vertcal secton transitons to the wndsheld area. The drawings don't have any measurements in ths area either. Is ths an area that's obvous when you actually start fitting? If not, does anybody have measurements and/or pix that would help out? Thanks Bob #40105 Bob -------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Riveting bottom wing skins
Date: Aug 09, 2005
From: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)mail.sprint.com>
I would attempt to do it solo unless you like lots of smiles. I have done my RV-9 wings on a table and RV-7 wings in the stand. I found it much easier to do when they are mounted in the h stand. Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Subject: RV10-List: Riveting bottom wing skins What has everyone done to ease the riveting of the bottom wing skins? Is it best to place the wing vertical in the stand and work from the floor to reach the farthest away rivets? I can't see how you could get into the rear spar with the wing flat on the bench. Any hints and suggestions? Did anyone manage to do it solo? Rick S. 40185 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2005
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Riveting bottom wing skins
Thanks Ray, I assume you meant "wouldn't" do it solo. I had the same thought as I stared at the wings last night and looked at my arm vs. the length of the reach to the rear spar, first time I wished I had skinny arms, (skinny anything ;0) Bob K, Droopy Erickson....are you free this weekend? Both wings are ready to go. Rick S. 40185 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2005
From: =?us-ascii?Q?1stLt=20Seipel=2C=20Patrick=20J?= <Seipel(at)seznam.cz>
On page 28-8 in the plans, they show you bolting together the fwd and aft center sections with spacers in between. As far as I can see, they don't call out the bolts, and I'm pretty sure I don't want to use the actual spar attach bolts. So does anyone have handy the sizes of hardware store bolts that I would need to use? Or is there some other/better way to do this? Thanks, PJ #40032 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Bolts to put together the fwd and aft center sections?
Date: Aug 09, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
I just went to Lowes. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 1stLt Seipel, Patrick J. Subject: RV10-List: Bolts to put together the fwd and aft center sections? =?us-ascii?Q?1stLt=20Seipel=2C=20Patrick=20J?= On page 28-8 in the plans, they show you bolting together the fwd and aft center sections with spacers in between. As far as I can see, they don't call out the bolts, and I'm pretty sure I don't want to use the actual spar attach bolts. So does anyone have handy the sizes of hardware store bolts that I would need to use? Or is there some other/better way to do this? Thanks, PJ #40032 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gommone7(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: hugo rv10 FL
Date: Aug 09, 2005
Hi, I expecting the shipp.of the tail cone from van's in the next week,can some body recently complete these task remember what need to be ordered in order to assy .and it is not come with the kit,in the plans I have its not mention about tail ligths,and for last ,how many clecos do I need to order and what size , to start with my plane.thanks ,hugo ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2005
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: hugo rv10 FL
Bare minimum would be 500 3/32 clecos and 100 1/8 clecos, I think either Avery or Cleaveland sells an empennage only tool kit that should work fine. I would not worry about lights just yet, plenty of time to order those. You should be able to get through most of the kit with plenty of lead time to order extras like fiberglass cloth and resin. Go to your local body shop supply and get some red scotchbrite pads, green one from home depot work OK too. Your best bet it to order a tool kit for Avery or Cleaveland...I pieced mine together and know I spent at least $200 more than if I just went for the kit. Time is now to pick your primer if your going that way and to decide if your going to alodine parts. I assume you already have a bench grinder, drill press, hack saw or bandsaw, vice, air compressor? Aircraft Spruce ships pretty fast so your only looing at a few days to get stuff from them. The kit is VERY complete, you will find a bundle of 4" x 12" sheets of aluminum in various thicknesses, use them to get a feel for drilling, dimpling deburring and stuff like that. Read through the plans, pickup last months and this months copy of Kitplanes, Dan Checkoway does a nice job of explaining the process of building and your right at the point where the information he is writing about is most valuable. You will find that if you can read the plans, figure out what parts are what and can fabricate small aluminum pieces you should not have any trouble.....Read twice, drill and or cut once. The first tip is to mark the VS skins for the holes you DON'T dimple...this is where fairings attach. look out for "drill in assembly" notes...very important. Study Van's manual for advice on how to deburr, rivet and general building skills. Experiment with your rivet gn before working on the real thing and find out your optimum air pressures for each type, length and diameter. And oh yeah...have some fun. Rick S. 40185 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LarryRosen(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: hugo rv10 FL
Date: Aug 09, 2005
The empennage kit is very complete. What you need now are the tools. Avery or Cleaveland are good sources for tools and they both support us RV builders. Brown tool company is another good source. If you want to a recommendation on which tools to get from Avery and which to get from Cleaveland look here <http://home.comcast.net/~rv10pilot/Construct/tools/Tools/index.html>. When you get to the tail cone section, which will be a ways out, you should install and deceide on a static port and rudder cable fairings, both of which you can find a lot of information on in the archives. You need to decide in whether to alodine, prime etc. the parts. You should also find a local builder, eaa tech advisor or attend a builders workshop to help you get started. IMHO a builders workshop is the way to go. Not necessary, but will speed up the learning process, and well worth the investment. Larry Rosen http://home.comcast.net/~rv10pilot/index.html > > Hi, I expecting the shipp.of the tail cone from van's in the next week,can some > body recently complete these task remember what need to be ordered in order to > assy .and it is not come with the kit,in the plans I have its not mention about > tail ligths,and for last ,how many clecos do I need to order and what size , to > start with my plane.thanks ,hugo > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Subject: Re: hugo rv10 FL
Date: Aug 09, 2005
Hi Hugo, I've just about finished the tail cone. It took between 800 and 1,000 #40 Cleco's and 200 to 300 #30's. A 4 x 8 work bench, two saw horses and all the tools you see listed in the RV Tool kits listed at Avery or any of the other tool vendors. There's a special bucking bar required (you can make it or buy it from Avery) and an extra large C-Frame dimpler (or the DRDT-2 dimpler... fantastic... if you can afford it). Also, a table top sander, drill press and band saw make life a lot easier. Jeff Carpenter 40304 On Aug 9, 2005, at 2:44 PM, wrote: > > Hi, I expecting the shipp.of the tail cone from van's in the next > week,can some body recently complete these task remember what need > to be ordered in order to assy .and it is not come with the kit,in > the plans I have its not mention about tail ligths,and for > last ,how many clecos do I need to order and what size , to start > with my plane.thanks ,hugo > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gommone7(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: hugo rv10 FL
Date: Aug 09, 2005
Thanks guys for the fast answer,in the preview plans I have ,its a mention about proseal,it is come with the kit? hugo ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2005
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: hugo rv10 FL
No, you will need to order it from Vans or Aircraft Spruce, The can will go a long way but it does have a shelf life, I used the small tubes from AS and Van's. you don't need much, only about two oz's for each traling edg if that much. Rick S. 40185 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2005
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject:
rv7-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com, rv9-list(at)matronics.com, Listers, Gary VanRemortel just sent me an update to the RV Yeller Pages and it can be found here: http://www.matronics.com/YellerPages/ Thanks Gary!! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Admin. Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Subject: Re: hugo rv10 FL
Date: Aug 09, 2005
you need that too... but don't order it until about a week before you're going to use it. It needs to be fresh. Jeff Carpenter 40304 On Aug 9, 2005, at 4:21 PM, wrote: > > Thanks guys for the fast answer,in the preview plans I have ,its a > mention about proseal,it is come with the kit? > hugo > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: hugo rv10 FL
Date: Aug 09, 2005
Well, it only needs to be fresh for sealing fuel tanks..... I'd find someone with some expired but still soft proseal that they are willing to let go for like $10. Trust me, if it is soft and not cured in the cans, it will work for well over a year after the expiration date. I just wouldn't use it to seal a fuel tank... -Mike RV-4 flying RV-10 building -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter Subject: Re: RV10-List: hugo rv10 FL you need that too... but don't order it until about a week before you're going to use it. It needs to be fresh. Jeff Carpenter 40304 On Aug 9, 2005, at 4:21 PM, wrote: > > Thanks guys for the fast answer,in the preview plans I have ,its a > mention about proseal,it is come with the kit? > hugo > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Subject: Re: hugo rv10 FL
Date: Aug 09, 2005
I beg to differ Mike... The proseal I worked with on my trim tabs hadn't even gotten to its expiration date... but instead of a two hour window to be able to work with it, I had about 15 minutes... and barely made it through the tabs before it hardened. Jeff Carpenter 40304 On Aug 9, 2005, at 5:16 PM, Mike Kraus wrote: > > > Well, it only needs to be fresh for sealing fuel tanks..... I'd find > someone with some expired but still soft proseal that they are willing > to let go for like $10. Trust me, if it is soft and not cured in the > cans, it will work for well over a year after the expiration date. I > just wouldn't use it to seal a fuel tank... > -Mike > RV-4 flying > RV-10 building > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff > Carpenter > Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 7:47 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: hugo rv10 FL > > > > > you need that too... > > but don't order it until about a week before you're going to use it. > It needs to be fresh. > > Jeff Carpenter > 40304 > > > On Aug 9, 2005, at 4:21 PM, > wrote: > > >> >> Thanks guys for the fast answer,in the preview plans I have ,its a >> mention about proseal,it is come with the kit? >> hugo >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2005
From: "Jim Combs" <jimc(at)mail.infra-read.com>
You will need: 8 4 1/2" x 3/8" bolts 8 3/8" nuts 16 3/8" washers Jim C #40192 - Fuselage N312F ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: =?us-ascii?Q?1stLt=20Seipel=2C=20Patrick=20J?= <Seipel(at)seznam.cz>
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 18:49:42 +0200 (CEST) On page 28-8 in the plans, they show you bolting together the fwd and aft center sections with spacers in between. As far as I can see, they don't call out the bolts, and I'm pretty sure I don't want to use the actual spar attach bolts. So does anyone have handy the sizes of hardware store bolts that I would need to use? Or is there some other/better way to do this? Thanks, PJ #40032 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: hugo rv10 FL
Jeff, Is it possible the room temp was higher when you worked with it most recently? Temperature will affect curing time, but in general, I believe that old proseal will take L-o-n-g-e-r to cure than new proseal....it'll still seal. I just used some for some fuselage tasks this week that I've had stored in the freezer since doing my fuel tanks....seemed to be the same to me. It's probably prudent to order one can initially, and a fresh can at fuel tank time, but for any reasonably normal speed builder, the shelf life should be there for the fuel tanks if they don't go too slow on the kit...especially if you store it in the freezer. I'm sure most people will order from Van's at least 2 or 3 times per kit section to get replacement parts, missing parts, and other supplies, so one can is probably the best way to go. Heck, I'm still ordering nutplates and screws from Aircraft Spruce as recently as today, just to make sure that I'm not going to run out. Tim Jeff Carpenter wrote: > > I beg to differ Mike... > > The proseal I worked with on my trim tabs hadn't even gotten to its > expiration date... but instead of a two hour window to be able to work > with it, I had about 15 minutes... and barely made it through the tabs > before it hardened. > > Jeff Carpenter > 40304 > > > On Aug 9, 2005, at 5:16 PM, Mike Kraus wrote: > >> >> >> Well, it only needs to be fresh for sealing fuel tanks..... I'd find >> someone with some expired but still soft proseal that they are willing >> to let go for like $10. Trust me, if it is soft and not cured in the >> cans, it will work for well over a year after the expiration date. I >> just wouldn't use it to seal a fuel tank... >> -Mike >> RV-4 flying >> RV-10 building >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff >> Carpenter >> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 7:47 PM >> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: hugo rv10 FL >> >> >> >> you need that too... >> >> but don't order it until about a week before you're going to use it. >> It needs to be fresh. >> >> Jeff Carpenter >> 40304 >> >> >> On Aug 9, 2005, at 4:21 PM, >> wrote: >> >> >>> >>> Thanks guys for the fast answer,in the preview plans I have ,its a >>> mention about proseal,it is come with the kit? >>> hugo >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2005
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: hugo rv10 FL
Hugo, one of the things you will want to be aware of is the need to trim the nose ribs in the vertical stabilizer (vs 1006, vs1013, and vs 1005. the flanges are a bit too wide and long and when you cleco the thinner skins together and pull the bend in the vs 1001 skin tight against the skeleton you will get a dent that protrudes outward from the structure. Several of us were comparing notes @ OSH and we all found this out the hard way. The same situation exists when you get to the horizontal stabilizer only they make a mention of it in the plans. however they have not updated the Sec 6 VS plans with the same information.(see page 8-7 and check out Figure 2 where it shows how to avoid the problem. Enjoy!! Deems Davis # 406 Tailcone http://www.deemsrv10.com Tim Olson wrote: > > > Jeff, > Is it possible the room temp was higher when you worked with it > most recently? Temperature will affect curing time, but in general, > I believe that old proseal will take L-o-n-g-e-r to cure than > new proseal....it'll still seal. I just used some for some fuselage > tasks this week that I've had stored in the freezer since doing > my fuel tanks....seemed to be the same to me. It's probably > prudent to order one can initially, and a fresh can at fuel > tank time, but for any reasonably normal speed builder, the > shelf life should be there for the fuel tanks if they don't > go too slow on the kit...especially if you store it in the > freezer. I'm sure most people will order from Van's at least > 2 or 3 times per kit section to get replacement parts, missing > parts, and other supplies, so one can is probably the best > way to go. > > Heck, I'm still ordering nutplates and screws from Aircraft > Spruce as recently as today, just to make sure that I'm not > going to run out. > > Tim > > > Jeff Carpenter wrote: > >> >> I beg to differ Mike... >> >> The proseal I worked with on my trim tabs hadn't even gotten to its >> expiration date... but instead of a two hour window to be able to >> work with it, I had about 15 minutes... and barely made it through >> the tabs before it hardened. >> >> Jeff Carpenter >> 40304 >> >> >> On Aug 9, 2005, at 5:16 PM, Mike Kraus wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Well, it only needs to be fresh for sealing fuel tanks..... I'd find >>> someone with some expired but still soft proseal that they are willing >>> to let go for like $10. Trust me, if it is soft and not cured in the >>> cans, it will work for well over a year after the expiration date. I >>> just wouldn't use it to seal a fuel tank... >>> -Mike >>> RV-4 flying >>> RV-10 building >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff >>> Carpenter >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 7:47 PM >>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: hugo rv10 FL >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> you need that too... >>> >>> but don't order it until about a week before you're going to use it. >>> It needs to be fresh. >>> >>> Jeff Carpenter >>> 40304 >>> >>> >>> On Aug 9, 2005, at 4:21 PM, >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Thanks guys for the fast answer,in the preview plans I have ,its a >>>> mention about proseal,it is come with the kit? >>>> hugo >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: hugo rv10 FL
Date: Aug 09, 2005
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
What was the temp when you used it? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter Subject: Re: RV10-List: hugo rv10 FL I beg to differ Mike... The proseal I worked with on my trim tabs hadn't even gotten to its expiration date... but instead of a two hour window to be able to work with it, I had about 15 minutes... and barely made it through the tabs before it hardened. Jeff Carpenter 40304 On Aug 9, 2005, at 5:16 PM, Mike Kraus wrote: > > > Well, it only needs to be fresh for sealing fuel tanks..... I'd find > someone with some expired but still soft proseal that they are willing > to let go for like $10. Trust me, if it is soft and not cured in the > cans, it will work for well over a year after the expiration date. I > just wouldn't use it to seal a fuel tank... > -Mike > RV-4 flying > RV-10 building > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff > Carpenter > Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 7:47 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: hugo rv10 FL > > > > > you need that too... > > but don't order it until about a week before you're going to use it. > It needs to be fresh. > > Jeff Carpenter > 40304 > > > On Aug 9, 2005, at 4:21 PM, > wrote: > > >> >> Thanks guys for the fast answer,in the preview plans I have ,its a >> mention about proseal,it is come with the kit? >> hugo >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: seen the light
Date: Aug 09, 2005
I know I'm one of the slower builders and it's not a race, so here's my exuberance for the day. After putting together the VS and Rudder, I've finally gotten well into the HS. I had a feeling that must be something close to the RV grin (still haven't gotten my demo yet) after setting up the cradles and putting my skeleton together for the HS. While I was following the directions by picking up the whole assembly to slide in the two stringers, I thought, "boy this thing really feels like I'm handling an airplane part." I guess after making a stabilator for a CH640 and attending the sheetmetal sportair workshop, the VS and Rudder felt like learning projects again. But handling that large of an assembly in the HS was a different feeling altogether! I guess this is what really gets in your blood and makes you a repeat offender. I can't imagine what you repeat offenders must have felt after having to fabricate a lot more than we do in the -10, and seeing your babies come together. Then again, it's also REALLY nice having all the holes match up almost perfectly every time too. If you're just starting, build away! Are we sure that there are just 24 hours in a day? Rob Wright #392 HS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: seen the light
Date: Aug 10, 2005
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9656/akroshomepage.htm > >I know I'm one of the slower builders and it's not a race, so here's my >exuberance for the day. > > >After putting together the VS and Rudder, I've finally gotten well into the >HS. I had a feeling that must be something close to the RV grin (still >haven't gotten my demo yet) after setting up the cradles and putting my >skeleton together for the HS. While I was following the directions by >picking up the whole assembly to slide in the two stringers, I thought, >"boy >this thing really feels like I'm handling an airplane part." I guess after >making a stabilator for a CH640 and attending the sheetmetal sportair >workshop, the VS and Rudder felt like learning projects again. But >handling >that large of an assembly in the HS was a different feeling altogether! > > >I guess this is what really gets in your blood and makes you a repeat >offender. I can't imagine what you repeat offenders must have felt after >having to fabricate a lot more than we do in the -10, and seeing your >babies >come together. Then again, it's also REALLY nice having all the holes >match >up almost perfectly every time too. If you're just starting, build away! >Are we sure that there are just 24 hours in a day? > > >Rob Wright > >#392 > >HS Rob, I love your enthusiasm! If I could just get this house project overwith, I'd get back to building. I do miss it and yes, seeing all those matched hole parts just fall together is utterly amazing. My -8 was in the "neo-classical" genre of RV kit development...no matched holes but with prepunched skins. Boy, the old timers who had to mine their own bauxite would thump their hairy chests and grunt their throaty snarls at us new kids on the block. I wonder what they have to say to us now? Must be time to shave our legs, paint our -10's pink and adorn the headliners with tafeta and sequins. Keep it up and enjoy the ride. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD complete with a few UNmatched holes. RV10 '51 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: hugo rv10 FL
Date: Aug 09, 2005
Hi Jeff, I'm not going to argue with you, but I have built an RV-4, RV-7, and now a RV-10 and helped a friend with his RV-7 and another with a RV-9A. I have used expired proseal many times over to seal many areas in the plane and never had an issue with it hardening (or not hardening). If you are getting it to cure after 15 minutes, it is either way to hot in your hanger or you are mixing it with too much hardener. Expired proseal will last for over a year after its expiration date (even a lot longer if kept in the freezer or in cooler storage). -Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter Subject: Re: RV10-List: hugo rv10 FL I beg to differ Mike... The proseal I worked with on my trim tabs hadn't even gotten to its expiration date... but instead of a two hour window to be able to work with it, I had about 15 minutes... and barely made it through the tabs before it hardened. Jeff Carpenter 40304 On Aug 9, 2005, at 5:16 PM, Mike Kraus wrote: > > > Well, it only needs to be fresh for sealing fuel tanks..... I'd find > someone with some expired but still soft proseal that they are willing > to let go for like $10. Trust me, if it is soft and not cured in the > cans, it will work for well over a year after the expiration date. I > just wouldn't use it to seal a fuel tank... > -Mike > RV-4 flying > RV-10 building > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff > Carpenter > Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 7:47 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: hugo rv10 FL > > > > > you need that too... > > but don't order it until about a week before you're going to use it. > It needs to be fresh. > > Jeff Carpenter > 40304 > > > On Aug 9, 2005, at 4:21 PM, > wrote: > > >> >> Thanks guys for the fast answer,in the preview plans I have ,its a >> mention about proseal,it is come with the kit? >> hugo >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: Pneumatic Pop Riveter
Date: Aug 09, 2005
I'd have to say there is one better, cheaper pneumatic tool.... A pneumatic cleco remover from the Yard Store.... Best $25 I have ever spent! http://www.yardstore.com/index.cfm?Action=ViewCategory <http://www.yardstore.com/index.cfm?Action=ViewCategory&Category=88> &Category=88 item # 12165 -Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper Subject: RV10-List: Pneumatic Pop Riveter To all of you that do not yet have a pneumatic pop riveter, I recommend you switch over to your internet browser and go to the Harbor Freight website, www.harborfreight.com oddly enough, and order one as fast as you can type. It is on sale again now for $34.99 and has saved my hands numerous times, especially installing the floors in the fuselage. One of the rare times when a cheap tool actually works as advertised. The part number is 00167-1AKH and I checked the website and it works if you use the "Find Item Number:" area. I doubt you'll find something so useful for such a good deal. No, I don't have any affiliation with Harbor Freight, just glad I got this thing awhile ago. Marcus 40286 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: Bolts to put together the fwd and aft center sections?
Date: Aug 09, 2005
When you stack up the spacers make sure all of them are there. If I remember correctly, there are 52 spacers total in the pack. There are 4 more in one of the brown bags. Don't know why they package them separately. These 4 are thinner. So each stack should have 13 thicks ones and one thin one. The drawings show it but it's easy to assume all spacers were packaged together. Anh #141 ----- Original Message ----- From: <1stLt Seipel>; "Patrick J." <Seipel(at)seznam.cz> Subject: RV10-List: Bolts to put together the fwd and aft center sections? > > =?us-ascii?Q?1stLt=20Seipel=2C=20Patrick=20J?= > > On page 28-8 in the plans, they show you bolting together the fwd and aft center sections with spacers in between. As far as I can see, they don't call out the bolts, and I'm pretty sure I don't want to use the actual spar attach bolts. So does anyone have handy the sizes of hardware store bolts that I would need to use? Or is there some other/better way to do this? > > Thanks, > PJ > #40032 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: seen the light
Date: Aug 09, 2005
My hangar mate has an RV-6 that took him 8 years to build. It was kit number 1 or something. I think it cost him $8K for the kit back then. He had to measure, snap a chalk line, mark the hole locations, drill, and match drill before he could even start to deburr. He shakes his head all the time when watching me work. Anh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> Subject: RE: RV10-List: seen the light > > > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9656/akroshomepage.htm > > > > > >I know I'm one of the slower builders and it's not a race, so here's my > >exuberance for the day. > > > > > > > >After putting together the VS and Rudder, I've finally gotten well into the > >HS. I had a feeling that must be something close to the RV grin (still > >haven't gotten my demo yet) after setting up the cradles and putting my > >skeleton together for the HS. While I was following the directions by > >picking up the whole assembly to slide in the two stringers, I thought, > >"boy > >this thing really feels like I'm handling an airplane part." I guess after > >making a stabilator for a CH640 and attending the sheetmetal sportair > >workshop, the VS and Rudder felt like learning projects again. But > >handling > >that large of an assembly in the HS was a different feeling altogether! > > > > > > > >I guess this is what really gets in your blood and makes you a repeat > >offender. I can't imagine what you repeat offenders must have felt after > >having to fabricate a lot more than we do in the -10, and seeing your > >babies > >come together. Then again, it's also REALLY nice having all the holes > >match > >up almost perfectly every time too. If you're just starting, build away! > >Are we sure that there are just 24 hours in a day? > > > > > > > >Rob Wright > > > >#392 > > > >HS > > Rob, > > I love your enthusiasm! If I could just get this house project overwith, > I'd get back to building. I do miss it and yes, seeing all those matched > hole parts just fall together is utterly amazing. My -8 was in the > "neo-classical" genre of RV kit development...no matched holes but with > prepunched skins. Boy, the old timers who had to mine their own bauxite > would thump their hairy chests and grunt their throaty snarls at us new kids > on the block. I wonder what they have to say to us now? > > Must be time to shave our legs, paint our -10's pink and adorn the > headliners with tafeta and sequins. > > Keep it up and enjoy the ride. > > Brian Denk > RV8 N94BD complete with a few UNmatched holes. > RV10 '51 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: Riveting bottom wing skins
Date: Aug 10, 2005
Rick, Having a helper is best of course but I did most of mine solo. Definitely needed help for the ones around the flap brackets. I leveraged off of adjacent clecos when able to keep the gun from moving. At some point you don't have clecos left and have to just be very careful. The far reaching ones required me to squeeze the gun with my thumb. Don't try that unless you had a good night sleep, feel extra confident, and use short bursts when squeezing the gun. Anh #141 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick" <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> Subject: RV10-List: Riveting bottom wing skins > > > What has everyone done to ease the riveting of the bottom wing skins? Is it best to place the wing vertical in the stand and work from the floor to reach the farthest away rivets? I can't see how you could get into the rear spar with the wing flat on the bench. Any hints and suggestions? Did anyone manage to do it solo? > > Rick S. > 40185 > Wings > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2005
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Riveting bottom wing skins
Thanks Anh, I managed to do the entire rear spar on the root skin tonight. I expect to have some company this weekend unless I manage to finish before they get here. FWIW, I used knee pads (Please save the chuckles) and kneeled on the floor and worked from below while the wing sat vertical in the stand, not as bad as I thought. Rick S. 40185 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: hugo rv10 FL
Date: Aug 09, 2005
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Not all Proseal is created equal. The stuff in the cans that Van's sells is 2 hour cure time, the 6oz tubes are 1/2 hour cure time. Don't know about the smaller tubes. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter Subject: Re: RV10-List: hugo rv10 FL I beg to differ Mike... The proseal I worked with on my trim tabs hadn't even gotten to its expiration date... but instead of a two hour window to be able to work with it, I had about 15 minutes... and barely made it through the tabs before it hardened. Jeff Carpenter 40304 On Aug 9, 2005, at 5:16 PM, Mike Kraus wrote: > > > Well, it only needs to be fresh for sealing fuel tanks..... I'd find > someone with some expired but still soft proseal that they are willing > to let go for like $10. Trust me, if it is soft and not cured in the > cans, it will work for well over a year after the expiration date. I > just wouldn't use it to seal a fuel tank... > -Mike > RV-4 flying > RV-10 building > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff > Carpenter > Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 7:47 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: hugo rv10 FL > > > > > you need that too... > > but don't order it until about a week before you're going to use it. > It needs to be fresh. > > Jeff Carpenter > 40304 > > > On Aug 9, 2005, at 4:21 PM, > wrote: > > >> >> Thanks guys for the fast answer,in the preview plans I have ,its a >> mention about proseal,it is come with the kit? >> hugo >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2005
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: seen the light
Brian, So little heard from you lately, the last thing I wanted to hear from you was to shave my legs and head towards something "pink" in the form of a garment/headliner.....If you don't shift directions we will have to come get your son from you before you ruin him!!! :) All in jest my friend....What is the status of your build at this point? If I had an -8 sitting on the ramp I might not be in a hurry either!! Rick S. 40185 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________ Received-SPF: none (out8.mx.klmz.mi.voyager.net: 207.89.248.210 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of core.com) client-ip=207.89.248.210; envelope-from=wcurtis(at)core.com; helo=localhost;
Date: Aug 10, 2005
From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)core.com>
Subject: RE: Riveting bottom wing skin
Rick, I found it much easier to do it solo EXCEPT for the rivets around the flap hinge mounts and the rear spar rivets. Here is a picture of me riveting mine. http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/07Wings/wings96e.html William Curtis http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2005
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: hugo rv10 FL
Correct Bob, you can tell the cure time from the last few letters of the part number... B-2 = 2 hours B-1/2= 30 minutes or something like that. I read it on the Firemaster web site. Rick S. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: hugo rv10 FL
Date: Aug 09, 2005
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Just to wrap this up - I just checked the Van's web site and only the can is the 2 hour version. Both of the tube sizes (3.5oz and 1oz) are the 30 minute cure time. Sounds like the problem might have been using the shorter cure time sealant under hot conditions. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Subject: RE: RV10-List: hugo rv10 FL Correct Bob, you can tell the cure time from the last few letters of the part number... B-2 = 2 hours B-1/2= 30 minutes or something like that. I read it on the Firemaster web site. Rick S. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Werner Schneider" <glastar(at)gmx.net>
Subject: Re: Exterior lighting choices
Date: Aug 10, 2005
I would prefer strobes run from local power supplies but Aeroflash is the only option of the three for this One warning about the Aeroflash local power supply, they are using special made condenser, so if one fails you're up to them to repair, as you can't buy a replacement from anywhere else. I've got one down after only 40 hrs. Werner ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: seen the light
Date: Aug 10, 2005
> >Brian, > >So little heard from you lately, the last thing I wanted to hear from you >was to shave my legs and head towards something "pink" in the form of a >garment/headliner.....If you don't shift directions we will have to come >get your son from you before you ruin him!!! :) > >All in jest my friend....What is the status of your build at this point? If >I had an -8 sitting on the ramp I might not be in a hurry either!! > >Rick S. >40185 >Wings I think I was suffering from "oh my god this new house is costing me a mint and how am I ever going to be able to afford fuel to fly" '-itis. I simply must get in some quality RV time. My -10 project (QB wings ordered) is on hold until we get moved and our current house is ready to rent. That means, at least three more months of packing, coordinating "stuff" with the builder, fixing up the old house, getting the wife's office re-configured, blah blah blah. At least when it's all said and done, I'll have a 1500 sq. ft hangar right outside my kitchen door with a ready to fly RV8 sitting in it 24/7. Gotta love that. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD RV10 '51 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: hugo rv10 FL
Date: Aug 10, 2005
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Temp has a HUGE effect on cure time. I put my elevators out in the Texas sun and heat and they were cured COMPLETELY in less than an hour. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Wing ribs -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: hugo rv10 FL Jeff, Is it possible the room temp was higher when you worked with it most recently? Temperature will affect curing time, but in general, I believe that old proseal will take L-o-n-g-e-r to cure than new proseal....it'll still seal. I just used some for some fuselage tasks this week that I've had stored in the freezer since doing my fuel tanks....seemed to be the same to me. It's probably prudent to order one can initially, and a fresh can at fuel tank time, but for any reasonably normal speed builder, the shelf life should be there for the fuel tanks if they don't go too slow on the kit...especially if you store it in the freezer. I'm sure most people will order from Van's at least 2 or 3 times per kit section to get replacement parts, missing parts, and other supplies, so one can is probably the best way to go. Heck, I'm still ordering nutplates and screws from Aircraft Spruce as recently as today, just to make sure that I'm not going to run out. Tim Jeff Carpenter wrote: > --> > > I beg to differ Mike... > > The proseal I worked with on my trim tabs hadn't even gotten to its > expiration date... but instead of a two hour window to be able to > work with it, I had about 15 minutes... and barely made it through > the tabs before it hardened. > > Jeff Carpenter > 40304 > > > On Aug 9, 2005, at 5:16 PM, Mike Kraus wrote: > >> >> >> Well, it only needs to be fresh for sealing fuel tanks..... I'd find >> someone with some expired but still soft proseal that they are >> willing to let go for like $10. Trust me, if it is soft and not >> cured in the cans, it will work for well over a year after the >> expiration date. I just wouldn't use it to seal a fuel tank... >> -Mike >> RV-4 flying >> RV-10 building >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff >> Carpenter >> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 7:47 PM >> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: hugo rv10 FL >> >> >> --> >> >> you need that too... >> >> but don't order it until about a week before you're going to use it. >> It needs to be fresh. >> >> Jeff Carpenter >> 40304 >> >> >> On Aug 9, 2005, at 4:21 PM, >> wrote: >> >> >>> >>> Thanks guys for the fast answer,in the preview plans I have ,its a >>> mention about proseal,it is come with the kit? >>> hugo >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <923te(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Exterior lighting choices
Date: Aug 10, 2005
whelen also has "local" power supplies whelen HTSCF power supply http://www.whelen.com/aviation/catalog/Power%20Supplies.pdf I find that whelen is much brighter and lasts lots longer than aero flash ============================================================ From: "Werner Schneider" <glacheck star(at)gmx.net> Date: 2005/08/10 Wed AM 06:52:43 EDT Subject: Re: RV10-List: Exterior lighting choices I would prefer strobes run from local power supplies but Aeroflash is the only option of the three for this One warning about the Aeroflash local power supply, they are using special made condenser, so if one fails you're up to them to repair, as you can't buy a replacement from anywhere else. I've got one down after only 40 hrs. Werner ============================================================ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 2005
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Battery Purchase
Tim, I use a computer power supply for bench work, pull one out and see, if has a nice 12v power output and I'll bet you have one lying around. rick S. 40185 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gommone7(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: clecoes
Date: Aug 10, 2005
Do anybody have clecoes for sale ,the cheapest I can found are 34 cents apiece. Hugo ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 2005
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: clecoes
Try Aircraft tool supply, I think they may be $.32 Welcome to the world of cleco sticker shock. Rick S. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Subject: Re: hugo rv10 FL
Date: Aug 10, 2005
Hi Mike, I can't claim much proseal experience... just the rudder and trim tabs, both using the tube that Vans sells. In the case of the rudder, I had the full two hour window (and unfortunately needed it... but that's another story). With the tabs I worked quickly and still found the proseal almost too hard to use as I started the 2nd tab. I'm working in an air conditioned space, and the temperature never gets outside the 68-78 degree range. Given your experience with old proseal taking longer to set up, my only guess is that the pre-measured tube from Vans had too much hardener in it. Jeff Carpenter 40304 On Aug 9, 2005, at 8:01 PM, Mike Kraus wrote: > > > Hi Jeff, > > I'm not going to argue with you, but I have built an RV-4, RV-7, > and now > a RV-10 and helped a friend with his RV-7 and another with a RV-9A. I > have used expired proseal many times over to seal many areas in the > plane and never had an issue with it hardening (or not hardening). If > you are getting it to cure after 15 minutes, it is either way to > hot in > your hanger or you are mixing it with too much hardener. Expired > proseal will last for over a year after its expiration date (even a > lot > longer if kept in the freezer or in cooler storage). > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff > Carpenter > Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 8:47 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: hugo rv10 FL > > > > > I beg to differ Mike... > > The proseal I worked with on my trim tabs hadn't even gotten to its > expiration date... but instead of a two hour window to be able to > work with it, I had about 15 minutes... and barely made it through > the tabs before it hardened. > > Jeff Carpenter > 40304 > > > On Aug 9, 2005, at 5:16 PM, Mike Kraus wrote: > > >> >> >> Well, it only needs to be fresh for sealing fuel tanks..... I'd find >> someone with some expired but still soft proseal that they are >> willing >> to let go for like $10. Trust me, if it is soft and not cured in the >> cans, it will work for well over a year after the expiration date. I >> just wouldn't use it to seal a fuel tank... >> -Mike >> RV-4 flying >> RV-10 building >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff >> Carpenter >> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 7:47 PM >> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: hugo rv10 FL >> >> >> >> >> you need that too... >> >> but don't order it until about a week before you're going to use it. >> It needs to be fresh. >> >> Jeff Carpenter >> 40304 >> >> >> On Aug 9, 2005, at 4:21 PM, >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> >>> Thanks guys for the fast answer,in the preview plans I have ,its a >>> mention about proseal,it is come with the kit? >>> hugo >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: hugo rv10 FL
Ahhh...the answer is in your reply....you used tubes, not cans. The tubes are what's available with the 30 minute time. The cans are 2 hours. Tim Jeff Carpenter wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > I can't claim much proseal experience... just the rudder and trim tabs, > both using the tube that Vans sells. In the case of the rudder, I had > the full two hour window (and unfortunately needed it... but that's > another story). With the tabs I worked quickly and still found the > proseal almost too hard to use as I started the 2nd tab. I'm working > in an air conditioned space, and the temperature never gets outside the > 68-78 degree range. Given your experience with old proseal taking > longer to set up, my only guess is that the pre-measured tube from Vans > had too much hardener in it. > > Jeff Carpenter > 40304 > > > On Aug 9, 2005, at 8:01 PM, Mike Kraus wrote: > >> >> >> Hi Jeff, >> >> I'm not going to argue with you, but I have built an RV-4, RV-7, and now >> a RV-10 and helped a friend with his RV-7 and another with a RV-9A. I >> have used expired proseal many times over to seal many areas in the >> plane and never had an issue with it hardening (or not hardening). If >> you are getting it to cure after 15 minutes, it is either way to hot in >> your hanger or you are mixing it with too much hardener. Expired >> proseal will last for over a year after its expiration date (even a lot >> longer if kept in the freezer or in cooler storage). >> -Mike >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff >> Carpenter >> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 8:47 PM >> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: hugo rv10 FL >> >> >> >> I beg to differ Mike... >> >> The proseal I worked with on my trim tabs hadn't even gotten to its >> expiration date... but instead of a two hour window to be able to >> work with it, I had about 15 minutes... and barely made it through >> the tabs before it hardened. >> >> Jeff Carpenter >> 40304 >> >> >> On Aug 9, 2005, at 5:16 PM, Mike Kraus wrote: >> >> >>> >>> >>> Well, it only needs to be fresh for sealing fuel tanks..... I'd find >>> someone with some expired but still soft proseal that they are willing >>> to let go for like $10. Trust me, if it is soft and not cured in the >>> cans, it will work for well over a year after the expiration date. I >>> just wouldn't use it to seal a fuel tank... >>> -Mike >>> RV-4 flying >>> RV-10 building >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff >>> Carpenter >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 7:47 PM >>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: hugo rv10 FL >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> you need that too... >>> >>> but don't order it until about a week before you're going to use it. >>> It needs to be fresh. >>> >>> Jeff Carpenter >>> 40304 >>> >>> >>> On Aug 9, 2005, at 4:21 PM, >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Thanks guys for the fast answer,in the preview plans I have ,its a >>>> mention about proseal,it is come with the kit? >>>> hugo >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: W1029 bracket problem
Date: Aug 10, 2005
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Ok, couple problems here. In section 14, my w-1029a/b bracket holes aren't even close to lining up with the holes on the rib flange. Also the bracket seems to be too long. The individual 1029's showed up completely mis-labeled and I put them together according to which had the extra, large hole in it. Which actually brings me to a third item, which wing does the completed bracket with the extra hole belong in? The plans show both different brackets for the left wing so it's not exactly consistent. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Wing Ribs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Subject: Re: hugo rv10 FL
Date: Aug 10, 2005
It all makes sense now... pays to read, huh? On Aug 10, 2005, at 10:45 AM, Tim Olson wrote: > > Ahhh...the answer is in your reply....you used tubes, not cans. > The tubes are what's available with the 30 minute time. The > cans are 2 hours. > > Tim > > > Jeff Carpenter wrote: > >> >> Hi Mike, >> I can't claim much proseal experience... just the rudder and trim >> tabs, both using the tube that Vans sells. In the case of the >> rudder, I had the full two hour window (and unfortunately needed >> it... but that's another story). With the tabs I worked quickly >> and still found the proseal almost too hard to use as I started >> the 2nd tab. I'm working in an air conditioned space, and the >> temperature never gets outside the 68-78 degree range. Given >> your experience with old proseal taking longer to set up, my only >> guess is that the pre-measured tube from Vans had too much >> hardener in it. >> Jeff Carpenter >> 40304 >> On Aug 9, 2005, at 8:01 PM, Mike Kraus wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Hi Jeff, >>> >>> I'm not going to argue with you, but I have built an RV-4, RV-7, >>> and now >>> a RV-10 and helped a friend with his RV-7 and another with a >>> RV-9A. I >>> have used expired proseal many times over to seal many areas in the >>> plane and never had an issue with it hardening (or not >>> hardening). If >>> you are getting it to cure after 15 minutes, it is either way to >>> hot in >>> your hanger or you are mixing it with too much hardener. Expired >>> proseal will last for over a year after its expiration date (even >>> a lot >>> longer if kept in the freezer or in cooler storage). >>> -Mike >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff >>> Carpenter >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 8:47 PM >>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: hugo rv10 FL >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I beg to differ Mike... >>> >>> The proseal I worked with on my trim tabs hadn't even gotten to its >>> expiration date... but instead of a two hour window to be able to >>> work with it, I had about 15 minutes... and barely made it through >>> the tabs before it hardened. >>> >>> Jeff Carpenter >>> 40304 >>> >>> >>> On Aug 9, 2005, at 5:16 PM, Mike Kraus wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Well, it only needs to be fresh for sealing fuel tanks..... I'd >>>> find >>>> someone with some expired but still soft proseal that they are >>>> willing >>>> to let go for like $10. Trust me, if it is soft and not cured >>>> in the >>>> cans, it will work for well over a year after the expiration >>>> date. I >>>> just wouldn't use it to seal a fuel tank... >>>> -Mike >>>> RV-4 flying >>>> RV-10 building >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff >>>> Carpenter >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 7:47 PM >>>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: hugo rv10 FL >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> you need that too... >>>> >>>> but don't order it until about a week before you're going to use >>>> it. >>>> It needs to be fresh. >>>> >>>> Jeff Carpenter >>>> 40304 >>>> >>>> >>>> On Aug 9, 2005, at 4:21 PM, >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks guys for the fast answer,in the preview plans I have ,its a >>>>> mention about proseal,it is come with the kit? >>>>> hugo >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Battery Purchase
Date: Aug 10, 2005
From: "Wentz, Don" <don.wentz(at)intel.com>
For what it's worth, I flew my RV-6 for 5 years with ground wire returns from everything, including the strobe supplies in the wing tips, lights, everything. Then I went in and did a weight reduction program on it, including making all the grounds at the point nearest the item. In addition to removing 50 lbs from the airframe, I noticed absolutely no difference in 'noise' or operation of anything, and this is still holding true 3 years later. So, my opinion is that it is OK to ground to the airframe and save the weight of the return wires. dw 94 RV-6 895hrs ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase Like everything, there's good and bad. The airframe makes a great ground. Just use a star (inside or outside, doesn't matter) between the ring terminal (for whatever size wire you use) and the frame. This assures you have a good mechanical connection. Some electrical grease won't hurt either and may prevent corrosion problems down the road. And you save weight as has been noted. Everywhere. If you elect to run cable forward to a ground block near the panel, you're assured of a good ground for your electronics. Now you have to decide if you want to run ground wires out to the wings, tail etc ..... but they add more weight. The fuselage ground has more area than your ground cable to the cockpit so that's something else to consider. My only caution ....... do not scrimp on the cable from the battery to the starter. That's the wrong place to save weight. If you can get some welding cable, that would be better as they have many more strands than standard heavy-duty wire. Best of luck, Linn Scott Schmidt wrote: =09 I had planned on running 2 AWG wire for both + and - from two Odyssey 680 batteries in the rear. I thought that the Aeroelectric book recommended that but if I don't have to than that would save some weight. I just wasn't sure how I would ground it in the back. I worry that the ground during startup won't be solid. My thoughts are to take the negative ground from the battery to the grounding block. That way, everything will be grounded in the same spot except the nav lights, heated pitot, and anything else that Knuckles says that won't cause any noise in the system. But basically everything will be grounded at the firewall. =09 Scott Schmidt sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GenGrumpy(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 10, 2005
Subject: Re: Battery Purchase
Carl, can I also get a copy? John 40404 In a message dated 8/10/2005 1:04:09 PM Central Standard Time, carl.froehlich(at)cox.net writes: I have a pair of Odyssey PC-625's in my RV-8A. The install supports dual electronic ignitions and an all electric panel. The design is based on being able to continue IFR flight with the lost of the alternator and one battery until fuel exhaustion. If interested I'll send the power distribution diagram. Although the normal mode is to have both batteries on line, I have done some single battery op tests. One battery spins my O-360 just fine. Carl Froehlich RV-8A (200 hrs), RV-10 on the wish list ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net>
Subject: clecoes
Date: Aug 10, 2005
Pan American tools, I think was 24 cents. Bob K -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Subject: Re: RV10-List: clecoes Try Aircraft tool supply, I think they may be $.32 Welcome to the world of cleco sticker shock. Rick S. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fixitauto(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 11, 2005
Subject: NO. OF FLYING RV 10'S
VANS HOBBS METER HAS CLICKED UP TO 14 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 2005
From: "Jim Combs" <jimc(at)mail.infra-read.com>
Subject: Flying RV-10's - 14
I don't know the order but here is the list from the FAA data base: (1/2) Vans Aircraft Marshall B Alexander Charles P Bennett III George S Chaudoin Albert P Cook (4) Randel J Debauw Joseph R Elliott James Headberg Paul C Irlbeck John M Nys John Quinn Stephen Saint Vic Syracuse Maybe someone could put these in correct order? Thanks, Jim Combs #40192 N312F ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Cram" <johncram(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Purchase
Date: Aug 11, 2005
It actually doesn't reflect light, it generates light. ----- Original Message ----- From: linn walters<mailto:lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 6:43 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase Scott Schmidt wrote: What is a star? It's a celestial body that reflects light to make it visible. Oh, sorry. Wrong star. That should have been star (inside or outside, doesn't matter) WASHER!!!! At least I know someone read it!!! Thanks Scott! Linn Scott Schmidt sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com<mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com<mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com>] On Behalf Of linn walters Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 4:16 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase Like everything, there's good and bad. The airframe makes a great ground. Just use a star (inside or outside, doesn't matter) between the ring terminal (for whatever size wire you use) and the frame. This assures you have a good mechanical connection. Some electrical grease won't hurt either and may prevent corrosion problems down the road. And you save weight as has been noted. Everywhere. If you elect to run cable forward to a ground block near the panel, you're assured of a good ground for your electronics. Now you have to decide if you want to run ground wires out to the wings, tail etc ..... but they add more weight. The fuselage ground has more area than your ground cable to the cockpit so that's something else to consider. My only caution ....... do not scrimp on the cable from the battery to the starter. That's the wrong place to save weight. If you can get some welding cable, that would be better as they have many more strands than standard heavy-duty wire. Best of luck, Linn Scott Schmidt wrote: ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: clecoes
Date: Aug 11, 2005
I just bought a bunch of 3/32 from PanAm tools, .32 each. Rob -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob.kaufmann Subject: RE: RV10-List: clecoes Pan American tools, I think was 24 cents. Bob K -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Subject: Re: RV10-List: clecoes Try Aircraft tool supply, I think they may be $.32 Welcome to the world of cleco sticker shock. Rick S. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Flying RV-10's - 14
Date: Aug 11, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Order by flight date or serial number. I know John Cox can do it. He has a data base of everyone whom has popped up on the lists. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Combs Subject: RV10-List: Flying RV-10's - 14 I don't know the order but here is the list from the FAA data base: (1/2) Vans Aircraft Marshall B Alexander Charles P Bennett III George S Chaudoin Albert P Cook (4) Randel J Debauw Joseph R Elliott James Headberg Paul C Irlbeck John M Nys John Quinn Stephen Saint Vic Syracuse Maybe someone could put these in correct order? Thanks, Jim Combs #40192 N312F ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LarryRosen(at)comcast.net
Subject: clecoes
Date: Aug 11, 2005
Brown tool <http://www.browntool.com/> should have them for $0.30 each new with free shipping on orders over $85 or, www.CountrySidewalk.com (look under tool shed) has used clecos for $0.25, but watch out for the shipping changes Larry Rosen #356 http://rv10pilot.home.comcast.net/ > > Pan American tools, I think was 24 cents. Bob K > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 9:02 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: clecoes > > > Try Aircraft tool supply, I think they may be $.32 Welcome to the world of > cleco sticker shock. > > Rick S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 2005
From: "Jim Combs" <jimc(at)mail.infra-read.com>
Subject: Re: Flying RV-10's - 14
More Information (1) Vans Aircraft 1 N410RV 3/20/2003 (2) Vans Aircraft 40210 N220RV 4/13/2004 Marshall B Alexander Charles P Bennett III 40177 N410PB 6/27/2005 George S Chaudoin Albert P Cook 40190 N329BC 5/13/2005 (4) Randel J Debauw 40006 N610RV 4/25/2005 Joseph R Elliott James Headberg 40142 N331JH 6/27/2005 Paul C Irlbeck 40243 N522RV 5/31/2005 John M Nys 40047 N3146S 4/27/2005 John Quinn 40175 N9862S 6/29/2005 Stephen Saint 40241 N256H 6/08/2005 Vic Syracuse 40229 N64VC 4/18/2005 Thanks, Jim Combs #40192 N312F ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 2005
From: Robert <retiredpilot03-serv(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Flying RV-10's - 14
I count only 11. What am I missing?? Robert --- Jim Combs wrote: > > > More Information > > (1) Vans Aircraft 1 N410RV > 3/20/2003 > (2) Vans Aircraft 40210 N220RV > 4/13/2004 > Marshall B Alexander > Charles P Bennett III 40177 N410PB > 6/27/2005 > George S Chaudoin > Albert P Cook 40190 N329BC > 5/13/2005 > (4) Randel J Debauw 40006 N610RV > 4/25/2005 > Joseph R Elliott > James Headberg 40142 N331JH > 6/27/2005 > Paul C Irlbeck 40243 N522RV > 5/31/2005 > John M Nys 40047 N3146S > 4/27/2005 > John Quinn 40175 N9862S > 6/29/2005 > Stephen Saint 40241 N256H > 6/08/2005 > Vic Syracuse 40229 N64VC > 4/18/2005 > > Thanks, Jim Combs > #40192 > N312F > > > > > > to browse > Subscriptions page, > Chat, FAQ, > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Flying RV-10's - 14
Date: Aug 11, 2005
I count only 11. What am I missing?? Robert There's 2 in CO, Burlington or something, Stewart (?) N104ME and Larry Feldhousen N104LJ I think. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Flying RV-10's - 14
Date: Aug 12, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Doug Pederson in not on the list. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert Gardner Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flying RV-10's - 14 I count only 11. What am I missing?? Robert There's 2 in CO, Burlington or something, Stewart (?) N104ME and Larry Feldhousen N104LJ I think. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: battery arrangement
Date: Aug 12, 2005
I previously posted my arrangement for twin Odyssey 680s in the modified battery box. two master contactors are located there so that the starter can use either or both batteries; although will start on one primarily. During flight the primary master will be on to power the primary buss and be recharged by the alternator. The aux master will be off and the second battery will be trickle charged off the essential buss. The essential buss will be connected to the primary buss by a 40a breaker and a power diode. this will allow connection of the busses or isolation of the busses. Chelton and Garmin will operate off the essential buss, while primary buss will power the Digiflite II and the mundane stuff like strobes, nav lights, trim, pitot heat etc. I have a similar setup running for 200 hours on my Glastar. Runs fine hence the duplication for the 10. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Sparling" <jhs_61(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: RV10 Kit For Sale
Date: Aug 13, 2005
Greetings to all: Due to circumstances beyond my control, I need to sell my kit. The Empennage/tail cone is complete and I feel the quality of the workmanship is excellent (even if I do say so myself). I have the QB fuse and Wings coming into Van's in a week, so they could ship anywhere. All I want is to break even, someone is going to get 500 hours of free labor in the deal and all I want is my down payment for the QB kits $7506.00 and (you take my place in line for them and pay the balance to Van's) the price for the Emp kit, $3235.00 and the shipping expenses. If you know anyone looking, please give my contact information to them. All the best, Jack Sparling (502) 262-6557 Jhs_61(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Specketer" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RE: RV10 Kit For Sale
Date: Aug 13, 2005
Sorry to hear that you need to sell. My heart goes out to anyone who wants to build but cant for any number of reasons. Maybe sometime in the future you can again build. Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sparling Subject: RV10-List: RE: RV10 Kit For Sale Greetings to all: Due to circumstances beyond my control, I need to sell my kit. The Empennage/tail cone is complete and I feel the quality of the workmanship is excellent (even if I do say so myself). I have the QB fuse and Wings coming into Van's in a week, so they could ship anywhere. All I want is to break even, someone is going to get 500 hours of free labor in the deal and all I want is my down payment for the QB kits $7506.00 and (you take my place in line for them and pay the balance to Van's) the price for the Emp kit, $3235.00 and the shipping expenses. If you know anyone looking, please give my contact information to them. All the best, Jack Sparling (502) 262-6557 Jhs_61(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 13, 2005
From: linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RE: RV10 Kit For Sale
where are you jack? linn Jack Sparling wrote: > >Greetings to all: > >Due to circumstances beyond my control, I need to sell my kit. The >Empennage/tail cone is complete and I feel the quality of the workmanship is >excellent (even if I do say so myself). I have the QB fuse and Wings coming >into Van's in a week, so they could ship anywhere. All I want is to break >even, someone is going to get 500 hours of free labor in the deal and all I >want is my down payment for the QB kits $7506.00 and (you take my place in >line for them and pay the balance to Van's) the price for the Emp kit, >$3235.00 and the shipping expenses. If you know anyone looking, please give >my contact information to them. > >All the best, > >Jack Sparling >(502) 262-6557 >Jhs_61(at)yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > -- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 2005
From: Phil Hall <phil(at)asibuildings.com>
Subject: engine mount & IO-540-C4B5
I just hung my IO-540-C4B5 and as you can see there is no clearance between the pan and engine mount. Am I the only one to have this problem? Open for suggestions. Phil The Hangar Man ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RAS" <deruiteraircraftservices(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: engine mount & IO-540-C4B5
Date: Aug 14, 2005
Have you got the correct mount for Your engine? Is this a new engine? marcel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Hall" <phil(at)asibuildings.com> Subject: RV10-List: engine mount & IO-540-C4B5 >I just hung my IO-540-C4B5 and as you can see there is no clearance between > the pan and engine mount. Am I the only one to have this problem? Open > for suggestions. > > Phil > The Hangar Man > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Murray Randall" <aeroads(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV10 Kit For Sale
Date: Aug 15, 2005
I am currently interested in hearing from any RV10 builder that needs to sell the project Murray Randall ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV10 Kit For Sale
Date: Aug 15, 2005
From: "Schroeder, Bob (Parts Clerk)" <BSchroeder(at)uta.cog.ut.us>
I have a completed empennage, a barely started wing kit and tools for sale for $11,000. give me a phone number to call. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Murray Randall Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV10 Kit For Sale I am currently interested in hearing from any RV10 builder that needs to sell the project Murray Randall ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV10 Kit For Sale
Date: Aug 15, 2005
What is your location? -----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Schroeder, Bob (Parts Clerk)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV10 Kit For Sale I have a completed empennage, a barely started wing kit and tools for sale for $11,000. give me a phone number to call. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Murray Randall Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV10 Kit For Sale I am currently interested in hearing from any RV10 builder that needs to sell the project Murray Randall ##################################################################################### The information contained in this communication is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and others authorized to receive it. If you have received this communication in error, you must notify us immediately by responding to this e-mail and then deleting it from your system, and further you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information without written permission from MAC Equipment, Inc. is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views, opinions, or authorizations contained in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of MAC Equipment, Inc. ##################################################################################### ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV10 Kit For Sale
Date: Aug 15, 2005
From: "Schroeder, Bob (Parts Clerk)" <BSchroeder(at)uta.cog.ut.us>
Salt lake city, ut. Darrin, I can be reached at 801-743-3117 days or 801-699-1683 nights/ weekends. Thanks for the interest! -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Schawang, Darrin Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV10 Kit For Sale What is your location? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Schroeder, Bob (Parts Clerk) Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 9:42 AM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV10 Kit For Sale I have a completed empennage, a barely started wing kit and tools for sale for $11,000. give me a phone number to call. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Murray Randall Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 7:45 AM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV10 Kit For Sale I am currently interested in hearing from any RV10 builder that needs to sell the project Murray Randall ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: engine mount & IO-540-C4B5
Date: Aug 15, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
I have about 1/2 " of clearance but I have an D4A5. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phil Hall Subject: RV10-List: engine mount & IO-540-C4B5 I just hung my IO-540-C4B5 and as you can see there is no clearance between the pan and engine mount. Am I the only one to have this problem? Open for suggestions. Phil The Hangar Man ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: MEK'd Rivets
Date: Aug 15, 2005
From: "John Erickson" <Droopy(at)ericksonjc.com>
Hey all, Just leak tested my left tank (right tank is still curing and I'm going to wait... Thanks Tim) and no leaks so far!! As I clean up my proseal mess, I have a bunch of -4 rivets that I've cleaned and soaked in MEK that I didn't use. Are there any issues with throwing them back in with the others or does the oil I took off (or the MEK itself) pose some sort of long term storage or usage issue? Thanks, John #40208 finally done w/ the tanks!! ________________________________________________________________________________ spamd1.ruraltel.net * -4.0 RCVD_FROM_NEXTECH_2 Message came from 24.225.10-29.x network * 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay * lines * 0.1 HTML_50_60 BODY: Message is 50% to 60% HTML * 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message * -1.0 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% * -0.3 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list
From: "Bill and Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net>
Subject: Questions
Date: Aug 15, 2005
Awhile back there was some talk about the WD-415 trim cable anchor brackets for the elevator trim cable. Mine are only welded on one side. Does vans or somebody else supply these welded on both sides of the nut. I'm a decent welder but don't feel comfortable tacking the other side and using it. Suggestions??? Also, there was some talk about nutplates. The trim tab reinforcement plates call for K 1100-06's. Are these correct??? The 1100's are countersunk nutplates, right??? Thanks, and sorry for bringing up old news, Bill RV-10 #40137 Elevators in the works, wings arrived 8/11 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sean Blair" <seanblair(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Questions
Date: Aug 15, 2005
Has anyone come up with a table design for the DRD2 Dimpler? I still have a lot of dimpling ahead and those big pieces get a little tough to deal with by myself. Also, is anyone taking the "big shortcut" with just reaming the holes and deburring, then dimpling without the initial construction with final drilling? Any problems? Thanks, Sean Blair N967SB (reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: AMSAFE inertial belts.
Date: Aug 15, 2005
Someone sent me an email that I inadvertently deleted regards the belts, hardpoints etc. If you can reply directly I can supply PDFs of the ones I chose. I haven't figured how to load something into a data file on the list. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Mode-S Xponder - Stations Shutdown
Date: Aug 16, 2005
Anyone installing a Mode-S Xponder? Tony Sustare alerted me on some 60 stations already shutdown in the East Coast and possibly more to come. Further info at http://www.surecheckaviation.com/ . Also, I would appreciate any insight that you may have on the TrafficScope VRX as an alternative. It sells for $795 and works off of other aircraft transponder pings. Anh #141 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Manifold Pressure Fitting - Revisited
Date: Aug 16, 2005
Someone had pulsating manifold pressure on a Dynon I think. There were talks about using a constricted fitting on the engine vice the stock fitting that comes in the FWF kit. Anyone know if there was a resolution to this? Anh ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Mode-S Xponder - Stations Shutdown
Date: Aug 15, 2005
I am using the Micro version in the Glastar as a heads up device. I do plan to run it from aircraft power. For the 10 I expect to wait for the availability of the XRX? version in November. http://www.zaonflight.com/ From: DejaVu To: RV10 Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 9:38 PM Subject: RV10-List: Mode-S Xponder - Stations Shutdown


August 02, 2005 - August 16, 2005

RV10-Archive.digest.vol-ao