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December 16, 2005 - January 09, 2006

Subject: AF-2500 Chelton Interface
We have finished the software interface for the AF-2500 to Chelton System and are currently testing it. We have a number of orders for the system and should have them delivered in the next 4 weeks. Rob Hickman Advanced Flight Systems ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave" <redflyer(at)comcast.net>
Subject: shipping costs
Date: Dec 16, 2005
Tony delivered my QB wings, Fuse and Finish kit to the Baltimore area for $3,000. There is no crating charge from Vans on deliveries made bay Tony since they do not have to provide a crate. This save a significant amount of money considering the regular shipping and crating charges for the QB kits. Dave Bope -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert G. Wright Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 9:13 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: RV10-List: shipping costs Using Tony Partain will be my method, too. I won't know anything for sure until about February but I'll try to remember to post the Partain cost of trucking my crateless QB wings and fuse to Enterprise, AL. Rob Wright #392 -- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Lenhardt Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 10:57 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: shipping costs The rate is also based on the classification or category of the contents of the shipment. It's different between being aircraft parts or assemblies or materials (ie. sheet aluminum). I found this out getting my own quotes when considering having my QB wings and fuse delivered to Roanoke, VA. At first I got a very low quote (sorry, don't have it anymore) and I inquired about the difference. That's when I found out about the category rating. Originally, I only gave the size and weight of the crates to a person that was not familiar with the origination address (Van's). When I called back, the person, who knew Van's Aircraft, asked me about the contents and informed me about the change in rate. I guess it may have to do with insurance or the value of the cargo (if it's expensive, you can afford to pay more?). I ended up saving money by using Tony Partain (Partain Transport Company) to deliver without Van's crating them. John Lenhardt #40262 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jesse Saint To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 10:34 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: shipping costs Shipping on our fuse to FL in October of '04 was $903, and to a business address. You can probably save something by picking it up at the dock. It is a really big box, even though it doesn't weight that much. I just got a quote, however, to ship the same crate to Ecuador, South America by air (including trucking to Miami, FL) and the price was around $1,320. Would that be $903 for trucking and $417 for air, I think not. Something is not right with Van's shipping company. It is possible to get quotes, I imagine, from other shippers and have them pick it up at Van's. If anybody is interested in being the first, please let us know how much you can save. I imagine Van's would go for this. In fact, you could even just get quotes based on the weight, size and contents and compare them. Better yet, get a quote from the same shipping company and see what the real discount is. If Van's gets a 60% discount, then they are getting that off the "listed price" discount and then truly give Van's only a 30% discount off what anybody would pay. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org Fax: 815-377-3694 I am in Ecuador until May, 2006. If you have questions regarding I-TEC, please call the office at 352-465-4545. If you would like to talk to me, please call me at 352-505-1899. This number won't always be on, but it has voicemail that will get to me in Ecuador. From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 5:29 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: RV10-List: shipping costs Sounds right. Mine last week was $745 to a business address in Texas. Residential is always about $50-$100 more. Quite the screw job these freight companies have going. It had a $120 fuel surcharge on it too. This is the first time Van's shipped to me via Roadway. The other times it was ABF and much cheaper but then again the fuse crate is huge to accommodate that canopy. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Mid Fuse Bulkheads From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve dinieri Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 3:57 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: shipping costs i just recieved a shipping bill for my rv-10 fuse that was delivered in november. (there must have been a screw up in processing) but it seems much higher than i've paid for any other crate from vans in the past. What have you guys experienced as far as costs go??? they're trying to collect 890 bucks and telling me thats with vans discount. i know vans has a 60% discount with roadway express, which means the real retail price should be 1500 bucks or so. what say ye'?????(btw..destination was niagara falls,NY) steve dinieri n221rv n231rv ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Edge Rolling
Date: Dec 16, 2005
Subject changed from 'Did I Ruin My Skin???' The amount of upset or roll depends on the part. On the leading edge of the rudder I put a great deal more because the rolled edge fits against a curved surface. The trailing edges and tank skins are rolled so they fit tight against the wedge and wing skins respectively. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Picking an Engine Monitor
Date: Dec 16, 2005
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
David, do tell the wiring or functional process you used that allowed the Chelton to release screen #1 from PFD and become a secondary engine annunciator (MFD) in that primary position. I am most interested. I concur with #2, #3... #n will take any secondary function and display accordingly. This would be an even stronger installation argument for the Chelton. In the Lancair, N6XE, that I am familiar with, it would (should) not have done that. John Cox -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill Subject: Re: RV10-List: Picking an Engine Monitor ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Picking an Engine Monitor
Date: Dec 16, 2005
One other thing may affect it, I have software version 6.20A2. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Picking an Engine Monitor > > David, do tell the wiring or functional process you used that allowed > the Chelton to release screen #1 from PFD and become a secondary engine > annunciator (MFD) in that primary position. I am most interested. > > I concur with #2, #3... #n will take any secondary function and display > accordingly. This would be an even stronger installation argument for > the Chelton. In the Lancair, N6XE, that I am familiar with, it would > (should) not have done that. > > John Cox > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill > Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 7:50 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Picking an Engine Monitor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Picking an Engine Monitor
Date: Dec 16, 2005
Just got the following from Peter at D2A Yes you are correct. If you want your system to look and act like a certified system you can name your #1 screen IDU1 and you will only have PFD functions on that display. Naming the #1 display IDU0 you will have all multi-functions. Take Care, Peter Stiles Vice President Direct-To Avionics www.d2av.com peter(at)d2av.com -----Original Message----- From: David McNeill [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net] Subject: IDU definition Just a point of clarification. In the experimental version the IDUs can be defined to display PFD, map or engine data on any IDU. Only the certified version requires a dedicated PFD IDU and this is defined in the CPU designation (0-4)? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Edgerton" <weeav8ter(at)grandecom.net>
Subject: Re: Picking an Engine MonitorPicking an Engine Monitor
Date: Dec 17, 2005
I plan on installing two Chelton's, one on the left and one on the right, and under the pilot side Chelton plan on installing an Advanced Flight System AF-2500. I want have a dedicated display for the engine functions and this unit will give me quite a few other functions as well. Wayne Edgerton RV10 #40336 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Edgerton" <weeav8ter(at)grandecom.net>
Subject: Re: AF-2500 Chelton Interface
Date: Dec 17, 2005
Hello Rob, I have ordered your AF-2500 system. I'm sure I'm missing something here but why would I want to interface your unit with the Chelton if I have a dedicated display with your unit? Are you saying not to use your display but to use the Chelton? Wayne Edgerton RV10 # 40336 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AF-2500 Chelton Interface
Date: Dec 17, 2005
I believe you will still need an additional small unit from Chelton , the air data computer (supplied by GRT either within the EIS6000 or separately). Since the interfaced EIS6000 has very comparable displays on the Chelton I assume there must be extra functions in the AF2500 i.e. checklists for the extra $2000+. ----- Original Message ----- From: Wayne Edgerton To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 5:49 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: AF-2500 Chelton Interface Hello Rob, I have ordered your AF-2500 system. I'm sure I'm missing something here but why would I want to interface your unit with the Chelton if I have a dedicated display with your unit? Are you saying not to use your display but to use the Chelton? Wayne Edgerton RV10 # 40336 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: AF-2500 Chelton Interface
Date: Dec 17, 2005
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
The main reason you would also want to interface it to the Chelton is to get the Chelton to pop up alerts on it's main screens. The less you have to look around for information the better and if you can have anything critical or advisory in one location you don't have to worry about it as much. I agree I would still want the additional dedicated engine display but I would rather not have to worry that I need to put it in my scan in a minimums approach or high workload scenario. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Mid Fuse Bulkheads ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton Subject: Re: RV10-List: AF-2500 Chelton Interface Hello Rob, I have ordered your AF-2500 system. I'm sure I'm missing something here but why would I want to interface your unit with the Chelton if I have a dedicated display with your unit? Are you saying not to use your display but to use the Chelton? Wayne Edgerton RV10 # 40336 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Hukill" <cjhukill(at)cox.net>
Subject: Engine monitor
Date: Dec 17, 2005
I recently took a trip up to the Dynon factory, near Seattle, to see they're new D100 system. I was blown away with the display! The screen was very bright, with high resolution, and the symbols were steady, with no flicker. They have units running on internal battery power that you can simulate the most extreme, and violent attitudes that you can produce waving it around in your arms, and I was never able to tumble it. The ability to split the very large display and present the majority of the engine data on the PFD is a great feature. The whole system, including dual AHRS, dual screens, all 6 cylinder engine and fuel flow probes, remote compass, OAT, and AOA pitot (not yet heated) is under $6000!!!!! This is for a system that is far more capable, with a brighter, cleaner display than is in the G4 I fly for a living! Now I can commit to a system, and start plumbing accordingly. Chris Hukill riveting tailcone tripping over QB wings and fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Testement" <jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com>
Subject: Picking an Engine MonitorPicking an Engine Monitor
Date: Dec 17, 2005
It would seem that the MFD with moving map navigation, weather, etc. would be a higher priority than engine instruments. You will want to constantly monitor your location, but as someone else commented, you don't need to stare at the engine data. You may want to consider putting the MFD on the pilot side and EM on the right. John Testement jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com 40321 Working on QB fuse _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton Subject: Re: RV10-List: Picking an Engine MonitorPicking an Engine Monitor I plan on installing two Chelton's, one on the left and one on the right, and under the pilot side Chelton plan on installing an Advanced Flight System AF-2500. I want have a dedicated display for the engine functions and this unit will give me quite a few other functions as well. Wayne Edgerton RV10 #40336 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roger Standley" <taildragon(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: AF-2500 Chelton Interface
Date: Dec 17, 2005
Hey Rob, Have you had a chance to go over to Van's and take a picture of their RV-10 POS-12 flap position input for the AF-2500? Roger Standley #40291 ----- Original Message ----- From: RobHickman(at)aol.com<mailto:RobHickman(at)aol.com> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 3:38 PM Subject: RV10-List: AF-2500 Chelton Interface We have finished the software interface for the AF-2500 to Chelton System and are currently testing it. We have a number of orders for the system and should have them delivered in the next 4 weeks. Rob Hickman Advanced Flight Systems ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
Subject: Engine monitor
Date: Dec 17, 2005
And, if you want to go cheaper or save panel space, you can get both the EFIS and the EMS in the same unit for a retail of around $3,200 (with no sensors). It's called the FlightDEK D180 and would be a perfect instrument for a backup EFIS and a dedicated EMS. With this one the battery backup will give you both EFIS and EMS, whereas they don't have a backup battery option for the EMS. I can't wait to see what they come out with next. They do a good job of making stuff that works while keeping the prices down. No, they're not Chelton, but the panel won't cost upwards of $60,000 either. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org Fax: 815-377-3694 I am in Ecuador until May, 2006. If you have questions regarding I-TEC, please call the office at 352-465-4545. If you would like to talk to me, please call me at 352-505-1899. This number won't always be on, but it has voicemail that will get to me in Ecuador. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Hukill Subject: RV10-List: Engine monitor I recently took a trip up to the Dynon factory, near Seattle, to see they're new D100 system. I was blown away with the display! The screen was very bright, with high resolution, and the symbols were steady, with no flicker. They have units running on internal battery power that you can simulate the most extreme, and violent attitudes that you can produce waving it around in your arms, and I was never able to tumble it. The ability to split the very large display and present the majority of the engine data on the PFD is a great feature. The whole system, including dual AHRS, dual screens, all 6 cylinder engine and fuel flow probes, remote compass, OAT, and AOA pitot (not yet heated) is under $6000!!!!! This is for a system that is far more capable, with a brighter, cleaner display than is in the G4 I fly for a living! Now I can commit to a system, and start plumbing accordingly. Chris Hukill riveting tailcone tripping over QB wings and fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Testement" <jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com>
Subject: Engine monitor
Date: Dec 17, 2005
This seems like a good option if you plan to use a Dynon as backup EFIS (which I plan to do). The only downside is that the Dynon will not interface to the Cheltons ( if you are using them) so you will not get EMS warnings on your PFD and cannot display engine data on the pilot side screens. Since I want an IFR plane with weather, traffic, terrain, approaches, etc. I'll spring for the Cheltons. John Testement jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com 40321 Working on QB fuse _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine monitor And, if you want to go cheaper or save panel space, you can get both the EFIS and the EMS in the same unit for a retail of around $3,200 (with no sensors). It's called the FlightDEK D180 and would be a perfect instrument for a backup EFIS and a dedicated EMS. With this one the battery backup will give you both EFIS and EMS, whereas they don't have a backup battery option for the EMS. I can't wait to see what they come out with next. They do a good job of making stuff that works while keeping the prices down. No, they're not Chelton, but the panel won't cost upwards of $60,000 either. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org Fax: 815-377-3694 I am in Ecuador until May, 2006. If you have questions regarding I-TEC, please call the office at 352-465-4545. If you would like to talk to me, please call me at 352-505-1899. This number won't always be on, but it has voicemail that will get to me in Ecuador. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Hukill Subject: RV10-List: Engine monitor I recently took a trip up to the Dynon factory, near Seattle, to see they're new D100 system. I was blown away with the display! The screen was very bright, with high resolution, and the symbols were steady, with no flicker. They have units running on internal battery power that you can simulate the most extreme, and violent attitudes that you can produce waving it around in your arms, and I was never able to tumble it. The ability to split the very large display and present the majority of the engine data on the PFD is a great feature. The whole system, including dual AHRS, dual screens, all 6 cylinder engine and fuel flow probes, remote compass, OAT, and AOA pitot (not yet heated) is under $6000!!!!! This is for a system that is far more capable, with a brighter, cleaner display than is in the G4 I fly for a living! Now I can commit to a system, and start plumbing accordingly. Chris Hukill riveting tailcone tripping over QB wings and fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
Subject: Engine monitor
Date: Dec 17, 2005
We've got an IFR plane with weather, traffic, terrain, approaches, etc, and we are using the Dynons as Primary. Cheltons are sweet, though. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org Fax: 815-377-3694 I am in Ecuador until May, 2006. If you have questions regarding I-TEC, please call the office at 352-465-4545. If you would like to talk to me, please call me at 352-505-1899. This number won't always be on, but it has voicemail that will get to me in Ecuador. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Testement Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine monitor This seems like a good option if you plan to use a Dynon as backup EFIS (which I plan to do). The only downside is that the Dynon will not interface to the Cheltons ( if you are using them) so you will not get EMS warnings on your PFD and cannot display engine data on the pilot side screens. Since I want an IFR plane with weather, traffic, terrain, approaches, etc. I'll spring for the Cheltons. John Testement jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com 40321 Working on QB fuse _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine monitor And, if you want to go cheaper or save panel space, you can get both the EFIS and the EMS in the same unit for a retail of around $3,200 (with no sensors). It's called the FlightDEK D180 and would be a perfect instrument for a backup EFIS and a dedicated EMS. With this one the battery backup will give you both EFIS and EMS, whereas they don't have a backup battery option for the EMS. I can't wait to see what they come out with next. They do a good job of making stuff that works while keeping the prices down. No, they're not Chelton, but the panel won't cost upwards of $60,000 either. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org Fax: 815-377-3694 I am in Ecuador until May, 2006. If you have questions regarding I-TEC, please call the office at 352-465-4545. If you would like to talk to me, please call me at 352-505-1899. This number won't always be on, but it has voicemail that will get to me in Ecuador. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Hukill Subject: RV10-List: Engine monitor I recently took a trip up to the Dynon factory, near Seattle, to see they're new D100 system. I was blown away with the display! The screen was very bright, with high resolution, and the symbols were steady, with no flicker. They have units running on internal battery power that you can simulate the most extreme, and violent attitudes that you can produce waving it around in your arms, and I was never able to tumble it. The ability to split the very large display and present the majority of the engine data on the PFD is a great feature. The whole system, including dual AHRS, dual screens, all 6 cylinder engine and fuel flow probes, remote compass, OAT, and AOA pitot (not yet heated) is under $6000!!!!! This is for a system that is far more capable, with a brighter, cleaner display than is in the G4 I fly for a living! Now I can commit to a system, and start plumbing accordingly. Chris Hukill riveting tailcone tripping over QB wings and fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RobHickman(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 17, 2005
Subject: Re: AF-2500 Chelton Interface
The Chelton System does not have its own air data unit. If you have the Grand Rapids EAU unit it is the air data unit. The Chelton system also has fuel level and warning options if you have it connected to an engine monitor. The AF-2500 for the Chelton System will also be the Air Data Computer for it. Rob Hickman Advanced Flight Systems ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RobHickman(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 17, 2005
Subject: Re: Engine monitor
In a message dated 12/17/2005 7:58:09 AM Pacific Standard Time, cjhukill(at)cox.net writes: The screen was very bright For reference the Dynon D-10a is a 450 nit display. The D-100 is only 400 nits. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RobHickman(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 17, 2005
Subject: Re: AF-2500 Chelton Interface
The problem is that you can't see it. I will see if I can get them to take a picture next time it is apart. Rob Hickman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob" <bcondrey(at)cox.net>
Subject: Prop Price Increase
Date: Dec 18, 2005
I just got my notification yesterday that the new price for the Hartzell Blended Airfoil prop from Van's is $6050 which is a $200 increase over 2005 prices. Price for props and engines is the current price at delivery time. Bob #40105 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 19, 2005
From: "Joseph Czachorowski" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Empennage Fairing
Does anyone know if the fiberglass empennage fairing is supposed to come with the Rv10 tail kit or does it come with the finishing kit? Zack ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 19, 2005
From: Jim Wade <jwadejr(at)direcway.com>
Subject: Re: Empennage Fairing
Finish Kit! Jim 40383 We plan to be done for Sun & Fun!!! -------Original Message------- From: Joseph Czachorowski Date: 12/19/05 07:34:41 Subject: RV10-List: Empennage Fairing Does anyone know if the fiberglass empennage fairing is supposed to come with the Rv10 tail kit or does it come with the finishing kit? Zack ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: gear mounting
Date: Dec 19, 2005
What has been the experience of the flying 10s regards tire wear and toein? Does the Van's procedure work? Are the tires wearing uniformly across the tire surface. The reason for the question is the Glastar that we built used to "eat" tires every 3-6 months due to a faultly method for setting toein. After correcing the situation using laser and plumb lines the current set of tire is at 18 months and counting ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Empennage Fairing
Date: Dec 19, 2005
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
It's not with the tail kit. I believe it's with the fuselage kit. Bob _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Czachorowski Subject: RV10-List: Empennage Fairing Does anyone know if the fiberglass empennage fairing is supposed to come with the Rv10 tail kit or does it come with the finishing kit? Zack ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Empennage Fairing
Date: Dec 19, 2005
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Finish Kit _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Czachorowski Subject: RV10-List: Empennage Fairing Does anyone know if the fiberglass empennage fairing is supposed to come with the Rv10 tail kit or does it come with the finishing kit? Zack ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: Empennage Fairing
Date: Dec 19, 2005
Mine came in the tail kit, as did my hanger mate's...... -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Czachorowski Subject: RV10-List: Empennage Fairing Does anyone know if the fiberglass empennage fairing is supposed to come with the Rv10 tail kit or does it come with the finishing kit? Zack ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 19, 2005
From: Perry Casson <pcasson(at)sasktel.net>
Subject: Re: Empennage Fairing
Fuselage Kit Perry Casson Joseph Czachorowski wrote: > *Does anyone know if the fiberglass empennage fairing is supposed to > come with the Rv10 tail kit or does it come with the finishing kit?* > ** > *Zack* ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: IO540 source
Date: Dec 19, 2005
From: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com>
I also got mine from them. $29,000 which included the new ECI Cyl and new Precision fuel injection. I have been very happy with there support as well. I highly recommend them. Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rob kermanj Subject: RV10-List: IO540 source I picked up my engine from America's Aircraft Engines. I wanted to let everyone know that they are a good source for RV10 engines. They tried hard to provide an engine that met my spces for new parts and Crank limits. I had a couple of pleasant surprises: A brand new Cam and brand new Lifters, things I was never promised. This is a certified engine with all new ECI cylinders, overhauled to factory new limits and cost under $28,000. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: Empennage Fairing
Date: Dec 19, 2005
Joe, Mine came in the fuse kit. Anh ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Czachorowski To: RV10-List(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 8:25 AM Subject: RV10-List: Empennage Fairing Does anyone know if the fiberglass empennage fairing is supposed to come with the Rv10 tail kit or does it come with the finishing kit? Zack ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 19, 2005
From: "Joseph Czachorowski" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Empennage Fairing
Thanks guys.. The item I am talking about is indeed the Fiberglass Empennage Fairing. I was hoping it was in the tail kit so I could work on it while awaiting the wings. After building an RV8, I am truly amazed with the quality and simplicity of this kit! The best way I could describe it is like one of those plastic models you built as a kid. Just break the pieces off, deburr and assemble! Heck, I bought a crap load of new fine point sharpies. Haven't had to use them yet! I even bought a new stainless steel ruler. Didn't need it either. No measuring (yet). Yeah, I know about clipping the rudder stiffeners 9/16" but Van's give you half-radius cutout as a guide point. I just lined the piece up on my shear and it was done... that fast. I was also ready to flute the vertical stab ribs...again....don't have to. Van's is certainly making this easier and easier. And what's this.....??? Holes ALREADY in the ribs??? Where was this match-hole technology 5 years ago when I was building my 8? Zack ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry(at)mc.net>
Subject: Re: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for
Date: Dec 19, 2005
Michael ... thanks for your detailed observations we can all learn something from those who are aware and know what to look for. Many thanks, Jerry Grimmonpre' Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 12:16 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for Specifically here is what tipped me: Things that made me leery - He had two transponders in his stack and was selling one to make room for a MFD. - Supposedly the original buyer backed out, but the seller had comments from him saying it was a good transaction - He was really interested in using eBay to broker the transaction. - He would rather sell it to me than re-list and probably get more for it. - He asked for name and address to start the eBay transaction Things that clinched it - Received an email from eBay directly for the sale but it didn't show the transaction in my eBay account - The seller was suddenly in the UK - The seller requested Western Union which is a common payment method for scams as it makes them untraceable. - Received a second, unprompted, email from eBay security saying that they knew the seller was in the UK but the shipper was his wife in the US. (eBay doesn't do this) - I looked at the header information in the emails, which show the exact routing of the message, and in both cases they came from a Yahoo webmail account and NOT eBay. - The seller used a Yahoo account also for his communications. - The reply address to the emails showed eBay but was actually routed to an address outside of eBay ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 19, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Empennage Fairing
Since we've had all the other kits mentioned, I'll say it comes with the wing kit...that way we cover 'em all. ;) Honestly though, I think it was the finishing kit. Tim Mike Kraus wrote: > Mine came in the tail kit, as did my hanger mate's...... > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Joseph > Czachorowski > *Sent:* Monday, December 19, 2005 8:26 AM > *To:* RV10-List(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Empennage Fairing > > *Does anyone know if the fiberglass empennage fairing is supposed to > come with the Rv10 tail kit or does it come with the finishing kit?* > ** > *Zack* ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Sponcil" <bsponcil(at)belinblank.org>
Subject: Re: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for
Date: Dec 19, 2005
Ditto. If they don't take paypal then I won't buy, especially if it's a high dollar item like a garmin 327. -Brian N211BD VS done, Rudder drilled. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lloyd, Daniel R. To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 1:12 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for This brings up a great point on using Ebay for anything. I personally use a policy that if they do not take Paypal, then I do not buy from them. Paypal, depending on the transaction, will protect $500-$1000, this coupled with funding your Paypal account with a dedicated CC that you only use on-line, and that has buyer protection, will give you some semblance of security. Most CC's have a transaction guarantee for mail-order, and will refund your money if you never receive the product. Do not ever, never, ever send cash, wire transfer, Western Union, or bank account transfer, this is all of these transactions are at your own risk as they are considered cash and are untraceable once the money is gone. At least if you use a CC you can try to re-coup it, but with cash it is gone. Dedicate a CC for on-line transactions, that way if someone high jacks it, it makes it easier to notice. Some CC's even offer virtual, one time use numbers for on-line purchases. That way you never give out a real number and it is only good one time. The most recent scam I had was that an unknown company charged $29 to my card, when I called on it to the CC company and they investigated, they could not find the company, so they took off the charge, after that I saw a news story that a foreigner was busted with several million CC numbers and was running a scam like this, because during busy seasons no one checks the little charges, just the big ones, he almost got away with $2mill or so. Everyone just be careful! If it looks to good to be true, it probably is, said many times, and ignored even more! Dan Wings 40269 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Off topic FAA user fees
Date: Dec 19, 2005
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -2.0210 If there is anyone out there who thinks user fees might not be a bad idea or something not worth resisting have a look at the current AVWEB lead articles at: http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/536-full.html. According to AOPA and last month's Flying editorial this issue is going to come up again. "Once the camel's nose is under the tent" Dick Sipp RV4 RV10 do not achieve ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com>
Subject: O/IO-540's
Date: Dec 19, 2005
Does anyone have a list of the O/IO-540's that won't work in the -10? Excluding the 300+ HP, which one just won't fit given the engine mount and cowl. I'd like to find a good core and rebuild it myself, with the watchful eye of a friendly IA. John Hasbrouck #40264 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: Mounting Location of Electrical Components
Date: Dec 19, 2005
I am looking for mounting locations for components in the RV-10. For instance, where are people mounting: Lightspeed Ignition Module Ground Block Ammeter Shunt Voltage Regulator Back up Voltage Regulator AOA module (Advanced Flight Systems one, if anyone has one installed) Dimmer Module Essential Buss Diode BMA Autopilot Module Pictures or really good descriptions would be great! Thanks -Mike Kraus RV-4 Flying RV-10 Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 20, 2005
Subject: Re: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for
Russ, I have heard of similar stories that there really is no worthwhile protection with Paypal. Unfortunately, in this world it is buyer beware. There are bad people and scam artists everywhere. Fortunately we live in the best country in the world and even though there are some rotten apples amongst us, there are more good ones than bad.So count your Blessings! God Bless this Country Bob Spudis In a message dated 12/20/2005 6:19:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, dav1111(at)cox.net writes: Enough said about the "protection" one gets from using Paypal. Russ Daves #40044 - Fuselage on gear ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Hodde" <hodde(at)olcwireless.net>
Subject: eBay and Paypal
Date: Dec 20, 2005
Do not feel secure when using Paypal. I paid via paypal on a $150 item I never received. NO response to emails, and after I won, a series of negative feedbacks began to show up on a previously perfect account. When I pursued the matter with Paypal, they investigated and found in my favor. They then informed me there were no funds left in the sellers paypal account with which to refund me. When I mentioned to paypal that I would pursue the matter with my credit card they informed me that I had no grounds since the transaction between myself and Paypal was separate from the transaction between me and the seller. Thus the credit card would likely not refund me because that transaction was completed i.e. I authorized funds to be transferred from my credit card to Paypal, and they fulfilled the transaction by posting those funds to my Paypal account. The Paypal service rep informed me that even if the credit card company refunded me the funds and took them back from Paypal, that would not help me because Paypal would simply try to collect the funds from me in another manner - he hinted they would even use a collection agency if necessary. Doug ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <Park.Dodd(at)tatumpartners.com>
Subject: Fuel selector valve configuration
Date: Dec 20, 2005
Submitted: You all have been great about disucssioning the fuel selector valve from andair and I will be purchasing one from them however I also want to use the flexible lines mentioned going to the tanks. I have two questions When I go to order the valve form the andair website what configuration do I request so I can use the flexible lines the model I think I want is the fs20x3. How long are the flexible lines and where are you all purchasing them? Thanks for all the help parkdodd(at)comcast.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 20, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel selector valve configuration
For the valve, you can choose from a variety of types if you wish, but a good one is probably the one that Neal George has available: The FS20x7t valves (the new 90-deg swing body with 90-deg AN6 fittings) or the FS20f5-FMF valves (a three-port valve, labeled "LEFT-AUX-RIGHT-OFF" with two 1/4" NPT fittings and one straight AN6 male fitting). You can look on Andair's site and configure a valve that looks like what you need, then check with Neal and others to see if they hvae it. As for the lines, I originally was going to go with parker hose, 929B-6 type. I think that would be a fantastic hose, but I can't find a local place to get it and I'd have to provide exact lengths and fittings to get one made. What I just got, is some very nice Aeroquip stainless overbraided hose that is used in the racing industry. You can get stuff like that all over. I have a racing supply place locally, and places like Summit online have it all. Then you can buy aeroquip fittings for the hose and build them yourself. Then you can build them to exact length with your personally chosen fittings. I just got mine yeterday. The fittings are the same ones that are on the ends of some of those hoses supplied by Van's. Also, Aeroquip started in Aviation and racers adopted the stuff. It's great stuff. In my case, I think I estimated 41 inches per side would be about right. The hose is sold in various lengths, so I bought 10'. Should be good to make 2 hoses, one that runs all the way to each tank from the valve. I also bought a couple extra fittings so if there's enough spare hose I can make that hose that's about 1.5' long to go to the fuel pump area. One other thing: When looking at the local parker dealer for special fittings, they only had steel (and some brass), in the hose fittings, and some adapters. And their selection was somewhat limited. Once I started looking into these aeroquip racing fittings, I found everything I ever wanted was available in aluminum, with a much larger selection. Hope that helps. If my valve extension shows up soon, perhaps by next week I'll have photos of an install. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Park.Dodd(at)tatumpartners.com wrote: > > You all have been great about disucssioning the fuel selector valve > from andair and I will be purchasing one from them however I also > want to use the flexible lines mentioned going to the tanks. I have > two questions > > When I go to order the valve form the andair website what > configuration do I request so I can use the flexible lines the model > I think I want is the fs20x3. > > How long are the flexible lines and where are you all purchasing > them? > > Thanks for all the help > > parkdodd(at)comcast.net > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LIKE2LOOP(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 20, 2005
Subject: Re: Yet another ebay scam to watch out for
"If a deal is too good to be true..... " On the positive side, we purchased a NAV 120 for our old Cessna 170 from E-bay. I had the seller send it directly to an avionics shop for a bench test (it was yellow tagged) and it did pass his test. Our agreement with the seller was 3 days to test and either pay for it or return it. I paid for it with Paypal. Paypal only allows the user to use credit cards without giving the unknown seller the info. Dont expcet anything more. We also purchased NEW (in the box since 1956) wing tips in excellent condition, never installed. There are many good oportunities and like anywhere else there are bad people. E-bay is not bad, some users are. These are the same people that would come to your home and buy your used TV and give you a bad check. On the positive side, you can sell many items that you would have a hard time finding a buyer any other way. DO NO ARCHIVE Steve Stephen G. Blank,DDS RV-10 #40499 - Dimpling Rudder Skins. Cessna 170b Flyer Port St Lucie, FL 772-475-5556 cell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: need complete or nearly complete RV10 for 10 minutes
Date: Dec 20, 2005
Need to check the sizing of the inertial reel belts in a RV10 with the seats in it. If anyone will be flying through the PHX area during the holidays, I would like to bring the AMSAFE rep and the final prototype for a final check. Just phone me offline if able, 480-626-4048. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 20, 2005
From: "William" <wcurtis(at)core.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel selector valve configuration
>When I go to order the valve form the andair website what >configuration do I request so I can use the flexible lines the > model I think I want is the fs20x3. If you are going to order a valve from Andair, I suggest one with a FEMALE lower (f) fitting. If you go with the one above, which has a male fitting, your will then need a very short tube with AN818/819 at both ends or a female Tee to go to the fuel pump and filter. With a FEMALE lower fitting, all you have to do is replace the AN826 Tee on page 37-2 in the kit with an AN824, replace the AN823s with AN821s and you are all set. For standard left-right, the fs20f7F with 90 degree travel is a virtual drop in replacement. The 6 inch extension would allow you to lower the valve and allow more room for the heater tube. So in a nutshell, if you go with the fs20_3 valve which has a 180 degree travel between left and right positions, the side ports at 9 o'clock and 12 o'clock, go with the new -T male side ports turned 90 degrees and female 1/4 NPT ports on the bottom (fs20f3F). If you go with the fs20_7 valve which has the 90 degree travel between left and right positions, the side ports at 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock, go with the female ports all around (fs20f3F). This valve with the side ports at 10 and 2 o'clock would be a challenge with the new 90 degree fittings as the would point right at the sidewalls. William Curtis http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Allergy anyone?
Date: Dec 20, 2005
I just got done with spraying AKZO on some parts. Its been an hour since and I have intense itching in both my hands, especially the palms. Washed, and washed again. feel my hands swelling up. May take some prednisone right away. Has anyone ever had something like this happen? The only thing I remember doing wrong was to "rinse my hands with MEK". May be the culprit. Oh well, if I die tonight, there will be someone "giving away" a 10. Mani Ravee, MD. Sent with Wireless Sync from Verizon Wireless on a Treo 650. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 20, 2005
From: Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel selector valve configuration
I'm holding off for now but will likely order the duplex Andair valve (with return lines) + 6 inch extension. I have already made the provision in my fuel tanks. The Titan kit Engine with their new fuel injection requires a return line It also enables using autogas (provided compression 8.5:1 or lower) and reduces vapor lock/hot start issues. The deltahawk diesel also requires a return line but I don't think they will have anything ready for the RV-10 for a long time. ECi (Joe Trampota) says they are about 1 year away for an IO-540 kit engine. In addition to the AEC fuel injection they will have a cold air induction system. Eric --- William wrote: > >When I go to order the valve form the andair > website what > >configuration do I request so I can use the > flexible lines the > > model I think I want is the fs20x3. > > If you are going to order a valve from Andair, I > suggest one with a FEMALE lower (f) fitting. If you > go with the one above, which has a male fitting, > your will then need a very short tube with AN818/819 > at both ends or a female Tee to go to the fuel pump > and filter. > > With a FEMALE lower fitting, all you have to do is > replace the AN826 Tee on page 37-2 in the kit with > an AN824, replace the AN823s with AN821s and you are > all set. > > For standard left-right, the fs20f7F with 90 degree > travel is a virtual drop in replacement. The 6 inch > extension would allow you to lower the valve and > allow more room for the heater tube. > > So in a nutshell, if you go with the fs20_3 valve > which has a 180 degree travel between left and right > positions, the side ports at 9 o'clock and 12 > o'clock, go with the new -T male side ports turned > 90 degrees and female 1/4 NPT ports on the bottom > (fs20f3F). > > If you go with the fs20_7 valve which has the 90 > degree travel between left and right positions, the > side ports at 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock, go with the > female ports all around (fs20f3F). This valve with > the side ports at 10 and 2 o'clock would be a > challenge with the new 90 degree fittings as the > would point right at the sidewalls. > William Curtis > http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: classified ad clecos
Date: Dec 20, 2005
I'm looking for some #40 clecos, about 150. The Tailcone is wearing my supply out! I'm sure some of you are out there who won't need as many anymore and are ready to offload some. Name your price. I'd rather help a fellow builder recoup some costs than pay the big wigs. I'll also pay shipping. Buildus interruptus begins tomorrow! Armywrights at Adelphia dot net, or just copy it from the header information in the email. Rob Wright #392 Tailcone Ready to drill left side stiffeners after vacation! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Number 19
Date: Dec 20, 2005
Looks like another -10 has flown. Rene' 801-721-6080 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVFOURME(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 21, 2005
Subject: Re: Allergy anyone?
Hi All: From my past experience, the reaction is very likely from the MEK. Years ago, I built a fabric aircraft, and in the process of doing the fabric I used large amounts of MEK in an enclosed garage without proper ventilation or respirator. After a week of exposure ,my eyes were swollen shut and I had no idea why. Of course I couldn't work on the project due to my eyes and after a few days the condition improved. Still dumb as to the cause of the eye problem, I proceeded to begin work on the fabric again. This time the moment I inhaled a whiff of vapor from the MEK the reaction from my eyes was so immediate I knew instinctively what the problem had been all along...............and to this day (25 yrs later) if I get a lung full of MEK vapors, my eyes instantly become scratchy and puffy feeling. Guys an gals: treat these chemicals very seriously !!!! regards Craig Ponnequin RV-4, RV-4, N3-PUP ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Peck" <kenbpeck(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Allergy anyone?
Date: Dec 21, 2005
Probably obvious, but have you tried some moisturizing lotion like Vaseline Intensive care? I used to have problems w/ my hands itching after working in solvents during the day at work, because it dried out my skin. Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee(at)sbcglobal.net> Subject: RV10-List: Allergy anyone? > > I just got done with spraying AKZO on some parts. Its been an hour since > and I have intense itching in both my hands, especially the palms. > Washed, and washed again. feel my hands swelling up. May take some > prednisone right away. > Has anyone ever had something like this happen? The only thing I > remember doing wrong was to "rinse my hands with MEK". May be the > culprit. Oh well, if I die tonight, there will be someone "giving away" > a 10. > > Mani Ravee, MD. > Sent with Wireless Sync from Verizon Wireless on a Treo 650. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Allergy anyone?
Date: Dec 21, 2005
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
"Invisible Gloves" (sold by Aicraft Spruce & Specialty) are commonly used in aircraft fabric covering. The PolyFiber process uses a number of MEK based chemicals and PolyFiber recommends "Invisible Gloves". This is a lotion-like pomade that is rubbed over the hands and allowed to dry. It is impervious to MEK and most other solvents, but washes off with water. Good stuff. Look in the covering supplies section of the AS&S catalog. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Peck Subject: Re: RV10-List: Allergy anyone? Probably obvious, but have you tried some moisturizing lotion like Vaseline Intensive care? I used to have problems w/ my hands itching after working in solvents during the day at work, because it dried out my skin. Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee(at)sbcglobal.net> Subject: RV10-List: Allergy anyone? > > I just got done with spraying AKZO on some parts. Its been an hour since > and I have intense itching in both my hands, especially the palms. > Washed, and washed again. feel my hands swelling up. May take some > prednisone right away. > Has anyone ever had something like this happen? The only thing I > remember doing wrong was to "rinse my hands with MEK". May be the > culprit. Oh well, if I die tonight, there will be someone "giving away" > a 10. > > Mani Ravee, MD. > Sent with Wireless Sync from Verizon Wireless on a Treo 650. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 21, 2005
From: Kent Forsythe <matronix.rv10(at)4sythe.com>
Subject: Fuel Tank Question
I am in the process of preparing all parts for the fuel tanks. Am I correct in assuming that there is no prep work to do to the inside of the tank? The inside stays bare aluminum/alclad? (and tank sealant of course anywhere that parts/rivets are joined) Just a sanity check!! Thanks, Kent Forsythe 40338 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 21, 2005
From: Sam Marlow <sam.marlow(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank Question
If you want real fuel gauges, NOW's the time to install the capacitor plates. It's to late if you finish the tank! Kent Forsythe wrote: > >I am in the process of preparing all parts for the fuel tanks. Am I correct in assuming that there is no prep work to do to the inside of the tank? The inside stays bare aluminum/alclad? (and tank sealant of course anywhere that parts/rivets are joined) > >Just a sanity check!! > >Thanks, > >Kent Forsythe >40338 >Wings > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 21, 2005
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank Question
Yup it stays mostly bare, however you do want to scotchbrite/scuff all of the areas where you will be applying ProSeal. Deems Davis # 406 Wings http://deemsrv10.com/ Kent Forsythe wrote: > >I am in the process of preparing all parts for the fuel tanks. Am I correct in assuming that there is no prep work to do to the inside of the tank? The inside stays bare aluminum/alclad? (and tank sealant of course anywhere that parts/rivets are joined) > >Just a sanity check!! > >Thanks, > >Kent Forsythe >40338 >Wings > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 21, 2005
From: Jim Wade <jwadejr(at)direcway.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank Question
NO PAINT INSIDE!!! The plans state that. Don't scuff except where you join parts. It was the worst job we have done yet, but turned out well. Buy lots and lots of gloves!!! Jim & Julie 40383 -------Original Message------- From: Kent Forsythe Date: 12/21/05 07:41:41 Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Tank Question I am in the process of preparing all parts for the fuel tanks. Am I correct in assuming that there is no prep work to do to the inside of the tank? The inside stays bare aluminum/alclad? (and tank sealant of course anywhere that parts/rivets are joined) Just a sanity check!! Thanks, Kent Forsythe 40338 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 21, 2005
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Allergy anyone?
Mani, I see your an MD so I assume your not allergic to latex gloves? Were you wearing gloves? Just my first thought when you mentioned itching of the hands. I have heard of reactions with some gloves but not others. Rick S. 40185 Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuel Tank Question
Date: Dec 21, 2005
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
I also strongly recommend picking up a used SEMCO gun on eBay. It would have taken me 3 times longer, probably twice the amount of proseal, and a whole lot more aggravation without it. This is one tool that I think you will have a hard time finding someone to say it was a waste of money. Also, if you have any remote thoughts of a different engine than the stock Lyc IO-540, now is the time to add fuel return bulkheads. It will cost you maybe $10 in materials and an extra 15 minutes. All you have to do is cap it off if you don't need it. It will be a serious pain in the arse to add later. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Fuselage ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Wade Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Tank Question NO PAINT INSIDE!!! The plans state that. Don't scuff except where you join parts. It was the worst job we have done yet, but turned out well. Buy lots and lots of gloves!!! Jim & Julie 40383 -------Original Message------- From: Kent Forsythe <mailto:matronix.rv10(at)4sythe.com> Date: 12/21/05 07:41:41 Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Tank Question I am in the process of preparing all parts for the fuel tanks. Am I correct in assuming that there is no prep work to do to the inside of the tank? The inside stays bare aluminum/alclad? (and tank sealant of course anywhere that parts/rivets are joined) Just a sanity check!! Thanks, Kent Forsythe 40338 Wings =09 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: FW: windscreens on the RV-10
Date: Dec 21, 2005
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Thought some of you may be interested in this. I talked to Becky and she sent me a copy of a fax (barely readable) but it looks like our windscreens block about 70%-80% of UVA. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Fuselage -----Original Message----- From: Daryl Sahnow [mailto:daryls(at)vansaircraft.com] Subject: Re: windscreens on the RV-10 Hello Michael: Our canopies are 76% light transmissable,I believe this is as dark as CERTIFIED AIRCRAFT are allowed! There is some UV protection.how much??? Our supplier Airplane Plastics,may be able to give a little more info on UV. Contact Becky 937-669-2677. Best Regards Daryl Forwarded by: "Support" Forwarded to: daryls Subject: windscreens on the RV-10 I see the windscreens that arrived with my fuselage are slightly tinted. What is this tinting rated at for solar transmission numbers? Also does it block UV at all? Thanks, Michael Sausen #40352 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 21, 2005
From: Jim Wade <jwadejr(at)direcway.com>
Subject: Fuel Tank Question
I used cheap cake decorating clear plastic funnels from Spruce. Worked great cut end the size you want, throw away when finished. No waste at all. Jim 383 -------Original Message------- From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Date: 12/21/05 09:09:57 Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Tank Question I also strongly recommend picking up a used SEMCO gun on eBay. It would have taken me 3 times longer, probably twice the amount of proseal, and a whole lot more aggravation without it. This is one tool that I think you will have a hard time finding someone to say it was a waste of money. Also, if you have any remote thoughts of a different engine than the stock Lyc IO-540, now is the time to add fuel return bulkheads. It will cost you maybe $10 in materials and an extra 15 minutes. All you have to do is cap it off if you don't need it. It will be a serious pain in the arse to add later. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Fuselage From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Wade Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Tank Question NO PAINT INSIDE!!! The plans state that. Don't scuff except where you join parts. It was the worst job we have done yet, but turned out well. Buy lots and lots of gloves!!! Jim & Julie 40383 -------Original Message------- From: Kent Forsythe Date: 12/21/05 07:41:41 Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Tank Question I am in the process of preparing all parts for the fuel tanks. Am I correct in assuming that there is no prep work to do to the inside of the tank? The inside stays bare aluminum/alclad? (and tank sealant of course anywhere that parts/rivets are joined) Just a sanity check!! Thanks, Kent Forsythe 40338 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 21, 2005
From: Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Allergy anyone?
I've used the blue nitrile gloves with good success. Search around for a decent brand as thickness and quality vary. Changing them often helps too. Usually they will start to fail at the finger tips but I change them prior to this. They start to "wrinkle" before they fail. Autoparts stores carry them. autopaint stores also have them. Make sure you get the talc free versions. At high solvent concentrations you can also get transport into the eyes via absorption. A full face mask is a good idea. However, for most operations you should be using a minimal quantity of MEK. (Damp rag, not soaking wet, etc). Make sure you toss used rags, etc outside as soon as you are finished. In winter, watch out for solvent vapors near pilot lights, etc. Forced ventilation is nice but commons fans are not explosion proof.... Anyone find a solution? Eric --- Rick wrote: --------------------------------- thinking about the blue nitrile gloves which did work for me when wearing two pair. (Latex was easier to type :). FWIW, MEK is evaporating and being absorbed by your skin...I like the post written by the doctor about this today on this thread, he knows of what he speaks....Remember safety....which is immediate harm to yourself and health which is what happens to you years down the road whan you have forgotten about using MEK with bare hands. I posted some of the PEL's and hazards about a year ago. Just protect yourself is all I'm saying anymore. Rick S. 40185 Fuselage (Safety & Health by day, RV-10 builder by night) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Fuel Tank Question
Date: Dec 21, 2005
I used zip lock plastic bags from the Aviation depart of my wife's kitchen. Cut the corner off to size, fill corner with pro-seal, roll the empty part of the bag until you can squeeze the pro-seal out. Through the bag away when you are done. Rene' Felker N423CF 40322 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Wade Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Tank Question I used cheap cake decorating clear plastic funnels from Spruce. Worked great, cut end the size you want, throw away when finished. No waste at all. Jim 383 -------Original Message------- From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <mailto:rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> Date: 12/21/05 09:09:57 Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Tank Question I also strongly recommend picking up a used SEMCO gun on eBay. It would have taken me 3 times longer, probably twice the amount of proseal, and a whole lot more aggravation without it. This is one tool that I think you will have a hard time finding someone to say it was a waste of money. Also, if you have any remote thoughts of a different engine than the stock Lyc IO-540, now is the time to add fuel return bulkheads. It will cost you maybe $10 in materials and an extra 15 minutes. All you have to do is cap it off if you don't need it. It will be a serious pain in the arse to add later. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Fuselage _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Wade Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Tank Question NO PAINT INSIDE!!! The plans state that. Don't scuff except where you join parts. It was the worst job we have done yet, but turned out well. Buy lots and lots of gloves!!! Jim & Julie 40383 -------Original Message------- From: Kent Forsythe <mailto:matronix.rv10(at)4sythe.com> Date: 12/21/05 07:41:41 Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Tank Question I am in the process of preparing all parts for the fuel tanks. Am I correct in assuming that there is no prep work to do to the inside of the tank? The inside stays bare aluminum/alclad? (and tank sealant of course anywhere that parts/rivets are joined) Just a sanity check!! Thanks, Kent Forsythe 40338 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Missing Fuel Line from Servo to Spider.
Date: Dec 21, 2005
From: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com>
Thank You Ray Doerr CDNI Principal Engineer Sprint PCS 16020 West 113th Street Lenexa, KS 66219 Mailstop KSLNXK0101 (913) 859-1414 (Office) (913) 226-0106 (Pcs) (913) 859-1234 (Fax) Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com Does anyone know what the part # is for the Fuel line that runs from the front of the fuel servo to the spider on top of the engine. I don't seem to have this line and it is not shown in any of the plans. Is this not included in the FWF Kit? Am I missing something in the plans? Thanks Ray Doerr 40250 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Missing Fuel Line from Servo to Spider.
Date: Dec 21, 2005
Ray, That's actually part of the engine and not supplied by Van's. I just happen to have my parts manual handy: Lycoming part number is LW-12784-4-274 for IO-540-A1A5, C1B5, C4B5, C4C5 and D4A5 engines. Bob #40105 -----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R [NTK] Subject: RV10-List: Missing Fuel Line from Servo to Spider. Thank You Ray Doerr CDNI Principal Engineer Sprint PCS 16020 West 113th Street Lenexa, KS 66219 Mailstop KSLNXK0101 (913) 859-1414 (Office) (913) 226-0106 (Pcs) (913) 859-1234 (Fax) Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com Does anyone know what the part # is for the Fuel line that runs from the front of the fuel servo to the spider on top of the engine. I don't seem to have this line and it is not shown in any of the plans. Is this not included in the FWF Kit? Am I missing something in the plans? Thanks Ray Doerr 40250 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JTORTHO(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 21, 2005
Subject: Re: Allergy anyone?
Haven't done it yet, but when it gets a bit warmer will be doing fabric work. I was planning on using two bilge vent fans I have here. They ought to be blast proof. and should give enough airflow for a small paint tent. Jim ________________________________________________________________________________ spamd4.ruraltel.net * -4.0 RCVD_FROM_NEXTECH_2 Message came from 24.225.10-29.x network * 0.5 HTML_40_50 BODY: Message is 40% to 50% HTML * 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message * -2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1%
From: "Bill and Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net>
Subject: Proseal over primer
Date: Dec 21, 2005
I just got done priming the interior of the elevator the other day and today I realized that I primed over the trailing edge where you proseal the AEX wedge to the skins. I also primed the wedge. Can the primer be left on and prosealed over since the proseal is only to "glue"the trailing edges for riveting or will I need to remove the primer somehow??? If I have to remove the primer how is the easiest way to go about it?? There will only be a very small strip (approximately 3/4") that needs removed on each skin. If I use MEK is there some kind of MEK proof masking I can use on the borders to keep from damaging the rest of the primer??? Bill Britton Riveting Elevators ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 21, 2005
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Proseal over primer
Bill, The Pro Seal isn't a structural element in the Elevator. Several people (myself included) don't use it in the trailing edge assembly. Deems Davis # 406 Wings http://deemsrv10.com/ Bill and Tami Britton wrote: > I just got done priming the interior of the elevator the other day and > today I realized that I primed over the trailing edge where you > proseal the AEX wedge to the skins. I also primed the wedge. Can the > primer be left on and prosealed over since the proseal is only to > "glue"the trailing edges for riveting or will I need to remove the > primer somehow??? > > If I have to remove the primer how is the easiest way to go about > it?? There will only be a very small strip (approximately 3/4") that > needs removed on each skin. If I use MEK is there some kind of MEK > proof masking I can use on the borders to keep from damaging the rest > of the primer??? > > Bill Britton > Riveting Elevators ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Allergy anyone?
Date: Dec 21, 2005
Appreciate all the participation. As a medical provider myself, I want to add my thoughts in posting this thread. It is not always the first or the second exposure to an allergen that is usually a problem. But sometimes it is a hypersensitivity type of reaction. Your body learns and remembers the insult. Then when exposed to the same insult, it suddenly sets forth a violent and profound attack against it, releasing into the blood a host of chemicals which can be quite dramatic in its presentation. An example is the "penicillin allergy". Sometimes it can be life threatening. In my case, I had taken precautions. I was just cleaning up my hands with a wet rag - one moist with MEK. I would have probably done this very thing many a time. But, this time bingo. So in future, I need to watch it and NOT have contact with MEK. I understand that this could have well been the nature of the beast itself - the adverse reaction to skin exposure to MEK. But, remember I have been exposed to this stuff several times in the past with not much of an issue. Hence the hypersensitivity theory. But then again have not heard of anyone reacting so. Regarding nitrile - we use it also in the hospital. But it is no match for organic solvents like MEK or acetone. I have not tried butyl gloves - wonder where one would find them. Mani -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Subject: Re: RV10-List: Allergy anyone? Mani, I see your an MD so I assume your not allergic to latex gloves? Were you wearing gloves? Just my first thought when you mentioned itching of the hands. I have heard of reactions with some gloves but not others. Rick S. 40185 Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Allergy anyone?
Date: Dec 21, 2005
Invisible gloves - have not used them but have to ask this of those who have - between alodine and then priming over it, will it leave greasy or oily prints and then areas of non adhesion of the primer? Mani Ravee -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack Subject: RE: RV10-List: Allergy anyone? "Invisible Gloves" (sold by Aicraft Spruce & Specialty) are commonly used in aircraft fabric covering. The PolyFiber process uses a number of MEK based chemicals and PolyFiber recommends "Invisible Gloves". This is a lotion-like pomade that is rubbed over the hands and allowed to dry. It is impervious to MEK and most other solvents, but washes off with water. Good stuff. Look in the covering supplies section of the AS&S catalog. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Peck Subject: Re: RV10-List: Allergy anyone? Probably obvious, but have you tried some moisturizing lotion like Vaseline Intensive care? I used to have problems w/ my hands itching after working in solvents during the day at work, because it dried out my skin. Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee(at)sbcglobal.net> Subject: RV10-List: Allergy anyone? > > I just got done with spraying AKZO on some parts. Its been an hour since > and I have intense itching in both my hands, especially the palms. > Washed, and washed again. feel my hands swelling up. May take some > prednisone right away. > Has anyone ever had something like this happen? The only thing I > remember doing wrong was to "rinse my hands with MEK". May be the > culprit. Oh well, if I die tonight, there will be someone "giving away" > a 10. > > Mani Ravee, MD. > Sent with Wireless Sync from Verizon Wireless on a Treo 650. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Allergy anyone?
Date: Dec 21, 2005
Oh no. this was not a case of skin drying up. I am glad I took the steroids. I still HAD to, today. :) side to all of this - the AKZO job looks perfect!!! Mani -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Peck Subject: Re: RV10-List: Allergy anyone? Probably obvious, but have you tried some moisturizing lotion like Vaseline Intensive care? I used to have problems w/ my hands itching after working in solvents during the day at work, because it dried out my skin. Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee(at)sbcglobal.net> Subject: RV10-List: Allergy anyone? > > I just got done with spraying AKZO on some parts. Its been an hour since > and I have intense itching in both my hands, especially the palms. > Washed, and washed again. feel my hands swelling up. May take some > prednisone right away. > Has anyone ever had something like this happen? The only thing I > remember doing wrong was to "rinse my hands with MEK". May be the > culprit. Oh well, if I die tonight, there will be someone "giving away" > a 10. > > Mani Ravee, MD. > Sent with Wireless Sync from Verizon Wireless on a Treo 650. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Allergy anyone?
Date: Dec 21, 2005
I rest my case. There is a delayed hypersensitivity to MEK. Watch out! Maybe Avery and Cleveland tools should start selling "epi-pens" ( epinephrine shots) Mani Ravee _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RVFOURME(at)aol.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Allergy anyone? Hi All: From my past experience, the reaction is very likely from the MEK. Years ago, I built a fabric aircraft, and in the process of doing the fabric I used large amounts of MEK in an enclosed garage without proper ventilation or respirator. After a week of exposure ,my eyes were swollen shut and I had no idea why. Of course I couldn't work on the project due to my eyes and after a few days the condition improved. Still dumb as to the cause of the eye problem, I proceeded to begin work on the fabric again. This time the moment I inhaled a whiff of vapor from the MEK the reaction from my eyes was so immediate I knew instinctively what the problem had been all along...............and to this day (25 yrs later) if I get a lung full of MEK vapors, my eyes instantly become scratchy and puffy feeling. Guys an gals: treat these chemicals very seriously !!!! regards Craig Ponnequin RV-4, RV-4, N3-PUP ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Gurley" <rngurley(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Allergy anyone?
Date: Dec 21, 2005
Mani - Thanks for brining this to our attention. Who better to write of this than an MD.? I for one will be more cautious! Thanks again Dick Gurley -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mani Ravee Subject: RE: RV10-List: Allergy anyone? I rest my case. There is a delayed hypersensitivity to MEK. Watch out! Maybe Avery and Cleveland tools should start selling "epi-pens" ( epinephrine shots) Mani Ravee _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RVFOURME(at)aol.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Allergy anyone? Hi All: From my past experience, the reaction is very likely from the MEK. Years ago, I built a fabric aircraft, and in the process of doing the fabric I used large amounts of MEK in an enclosed garage without proper ventilation or respirator. After a week of exposure ,my eyes were swollen shut and I had no idea why. Of course I couldn't work on the project due to my eyes and after a few days the condition improved. Still dumb as to the cause of the eye problem, I proceeded to begin work on the fabric again. This time the moment I inhaled a whiff of vapor from the MEK the reaction from my eyes was so immediate I knew instinctively what the problem had been all along...............and to this day (25 yrs later) if I get a lung full of MEK vapors, my eyes instantly become scratchy and puffy feeling. Guys an gals: treat these chemicals very seriously !!!! regards Craig Ponnequin RV-4, RV-4, N3-PUP ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 21, 2005
From: Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Allergy anyone?
Thanks for the tips on Nitrile gloves, I learned alot. From the attached website you can see how little protection they offer for MEK. http://www.chemrest.com/domesticprep2/Glove%20All%20Data/8005%20Data.htm also: http://www.chemrest.com/Intermittent%20Data/IMethyl%20Ethyl%20Ketone.htm Looks like for limited exposure viton over butyl would be much better. Perhaps time to look for a safer solvent? Bilge blower was a good tip, looking at Detmar ignition proof 12 V blowers - thanks! Eric ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris , Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Proseal over primer
Date: Dec 22, 2005
You do not need any proceal on the trailing edge.....it just ads weight!! Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill and Tami Britton To: RV10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:19 AM Subject: RV10-List: Proseal over primer I just got done priming the interior of the elevator the other day and today I realized that I primed over the trailing edge where you proseal the AEX wedge to the skins. I also primed the wedge. Can the primer be left on and prosealed over since the proseal is only to "glue"the trailing edges for riveting or will I need to remove the primer somehow??? If I have to remove the primer how is the easiest way to go about it?? There will only be a very small strip (approximately 3/4") that needs removed on each skin. If I use MEK is there some kind of MEK proof masking I can use on the borders to keep from damaging the rest of the primer??? Bill Britton Riveting Elevators ________________________________________________________________________________ spamd3.ruraltel.net * -4.0 RCVD_FROM_NEXTECH_2 Message came from 24.225.10-29.x network * 0.1 HTML_50_60 BODY: Message is 50% to 60% HTML * 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message * -2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1%
From: "Bill and Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net>
Subject: Re: Proseal over primer
Date: Dec 21, 2005
Thanks to all for the helpful hints. Unfortunately, due to a minor goof on my part I have to glue the edges down on atleast one elevator. When edge rolling a skin I stretched the metal just a bit and it got "wavy" on me. So, to eliminate, or minimize the "pillowing" between rivets I will have to glue that skin down. Will the primer be a problem??? From the responses of others it sounds like it won't be. What do you think??? Thanks, Bill Britton Riveting on Elevators ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris , Susie McGough To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 9:15 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Proseal over primer You do not need any proceal on the trailing edge.....it just ads weight!! Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill and Tami Britton To: RV10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:19 AM Subject: RV10-List: Proseal over primer I just got done priming the interior of the elevator the other day and today I realized that I primed over the trailing edge where you proseal the AEX wedge to the skins. I also primed the wedge. Can the primer be left on and prosealed over since the proseal is only to "glue"the trailing edges for riveting or will I need to remove the primer somehow??? If I have to remove the primer how is the easiest way to go about it?? There will only be a very small strip (approximately 3/4") that needs removed on each skin. If I use MEK is there some kind of MEK proof masking I can use on the borders to keep from damaging the rest of the primer??? Bill Britton Riveting Elevators ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Allergy anyone?
Date: Dec 22, 2005
This really underscores something us "metal" guys never really talk about but is very well known in the "plastics" camp. Everyone needs to be aware that you could, at anytime and without warning, develop a sensitivity to any of these chemicals, including the resins! There have been many documented cases in which a LongEZ or other fiberglass, or tube and rag builder was perfectly fine until one day when he hit his limit. After that they couldn't be anywhere near the stuff without going into a full blown allergy attack. Some so severe they required hospitalization. There is no set amount for this, each person has a different tolerance level. Just hope you never find yours. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Fuselage -----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mani Ravee
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Allergy anyone? Appreciate all the participation. As a medical provider myself, I want to add my thoughts in posting this thread. It is not always the first or the second exposure to an allergen that is usually a problem. But sometimes it is a hypersensitivity type of reaction. Your body learns and remembers the insult. Then when exposed to the same insult, it suddenly sets forth a violent and profound attack against it, releasing into the blood a host of chemicals which can be quite dramatic in its presentation. An example is the "penicillin allergy". Sometimes it can be life threatening. In my case, I had taken precautions. I was just cleaning up my hands with a wet rag - one moist with MEK. I would have probably done this very thing many a time. But, this time bingo. So in future, I need to watch it and NOT have contact with MEK. I understand that this could have well been the nature of the beast itself - the adverse reaction to skin exposure to MEK. But, remember I have been exposed to this stuff several times in the past with not much of an issue. Hence the hypersensitivity theory. But then again have not heard of anyone reacting so. Regarding nitrile - we use it also in the hospital. But it is no match for organic solvents like MEK or acetone. I have not tried butyl gloves - wonder where one would find them. Mani -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Subject: Re: RV10-List: Allergy anyone? Mani, I see your an MD so I assume your not allergic to latex gloves? Were you wearing gloves? Just my first thought when you mentioned itching of the hands. I have heard of reactions with some gloves but not others. Rick S. 40185 Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Allergy anyone?
Date: Dec 22, 2005
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
No, you should be fine. Just use normal precautions for making sure you don't cross contaminate anything you want to paint or prime. The stuff is almost like a waxy lotion and dries completely. Most of the fiberglass guys swear by it and I have a tub of it I use also. Aircraft Spuce's part number used to be #12-15800. The stuff is Invisible Gloves #1211, made buy Sun Magic International in Acworth GA. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mani Ravee Subject: RE: RV10-List: Allergy anyone? Invisible gloves - have not used them but have to ask this of those who have - between alodine and then priming over it, will it leave greasy or oily prints and then areas of non adhesion of the primer? Mani Ravee -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack Subject: RE: RV10-List: Allergy anyone? "Invisible Gloves" (sold by Aicraft Spruce & Specialty) are commonly used in aircraft fabric covering. The PolyFiber process uses a number of MEK based chemicals and PolyFiber recommends "Invisible Gloves". This is a lotion-like pomade that is rubbed over the hands and allowed to dry. It is impervious to MEK and most other solvents, but washes off with water. Good stuff. Look in the covering supplies section of the AS&S catalog. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Peck Subject: Re: RV10-List: Allergy anyone? Probably obvious, but have you tried some moisturizing lotion like Vaseline Intensive care? I used to have problems w/ my hands itching after working in solvents during the day at work, because it dried out my skin. Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee(at)sbcglobal.net> Subject: RV10-List: Allergy anyone? > > I just got done with spraying AKZO on some parts. Its been an hour since > and I have intense itching in both my hands, especially the palms. > Washed, and washed again. feel my hands swelling up. May take some > prednisone right away. > Has anyone ever had something like this happen? The only thing I > remember doing wrong was to "rinse my hands with MEK". May be the > culprit. Oh well, if I die tonight, there will be someone "giving away" > a 10. > > Mani Ravee, MD. > Sent with Wireless Sync from Verizon Wireless on a Treo 650. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Proseal over primer
Date: Dec 22, 2005
From: "Schroeder, Bob (Parts Clerk)" <BSchroeder(at)uta.cog.ut.us>
You have to remove the primer. I did the same thing on my rudder and it separated and the glue has no tooth. That was when I decided to replace the skins, so that it looked good when I got it all assembled. You can lay some tape on the line that clears your glue area and either sand it off by hand or you a dremel tool with an appropriate drum sander, just be careful. You can get carried away real quick. That is if your absolutely dead set on not replacing the skins. Again, in the grand scheme of things those skins are pretty cheap to replace. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami Britton Subject: Re: RV10-List: Proseal over primer Thanks to all for the helpful hints. Unfortunately, due to a minor goof on my part I have to glue the edges down on atleast one elevator. When edge rolling a skin I stretched the metal just a bit and it got "wavy" on me. So, to eliminate, or minimize the "pillowing" between rivets I will have to glue that skin down. Will the primer be a problem??? From the responses of others it sounds like it won't be. What do you think??? Thanks, Bill Britton Riveting on Elevators ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris , Susie McGough <mailto:VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 9:15 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Proseal over primer You do not need any proceal on the trailing edge.....it just ads weight!! Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill and Tami Britton <mailto:william(at)gbta.net> To: RV10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:19 AM Subject: RV10-List: Proseal over primer I just got done priming the interior of the elevator the other day and today I realized that I primed over the trailing edge where you proseal the AEX wedge to the skins. I also primed the wedge. Can the primer be left on and prosealed over since the proseal is only to "glue"the trailing edges for riveting or will I need to remove the primer somehow??? If I have to remove the primer how is the easiest way to go about it?? There will only be a very small strip (approximately 3/4") that needs removed on each skin. If I use MEK is there some kind of MEK proof masking I can use on the borders to keep from damaging the rest of the primer??? Bill Britton Riveting Elevators ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Missing Fuel Line from Servo to Spider.
Date: Dec 22, 2005
From: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com>
Thanks guys. I guess I will have to call America's Aircraft and have him send me one. They are really good about this small stuff. Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US SSA) Subject: RE: RV10-List: Missing Fuel Line from Servo to Spider. Ray, That's actually part of the engine and not supplied by Van's. I just happen to have my parts manual handy: Lycoming part number is LW-12784-4-274 for IO-540-A1A5, C1B5, C4B5, C4C5 and D4A5 engines. Bob #40105 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R [NTK] Subject: RV10-List: Missing Fuel Line from Servo to Spider. Thank You Ray Doerr CDNI Principal Engineer Sprint PCS 16020 West 113th Street Lenexa, KS 66219 Mailstop KSLNXK0101 (913) 859-1414 (Office) (913) 226-0106 (Pcs) (913) 859-1234 (Fax) Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com Does anyone know what the part # is for the Fuel line that runs from the front of the fuel servo to the spider on top of the engine. I don't seem to have this line and it is not shown in any of the plans. Is this not included in the FWF Kit? Am I missing something in the plans? Thanks Ray Doerr 40250 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Pellien" <jim(at)pellien.com>
Subject: T'was The Night Before Christmas - Sports Planes Style
Date: Dec 22, 2005
'Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the forum not an EMAIL was posted, not even a note. The stockings were hung by the laptop with care, in hopes that Tom P. soon would be there. The pilots were nestled all snug in their beds, while visions of SLSA's danced in their heads. The aircraft in their hangars, and I in my cap, had just settled our brains for a long winter's nap. When out on the tarmac there arose such a clatter, I sprang from my desk to see what was the matter. Away to the window I flew like a flash, tore open the shutter, and threw up the sash. The moon on the breast of the new-fallen snow gave the lustre of midday to the tie-downs below, when, what to my wondering eyes should appear, but a Light Sport Aircraft and eight big EAA 'rs. With a little old pilot, so lively and quick, I knew in a moment it must be Tom P. More rapid than eagles, his coursers they came, and he whistled and shouted and called them by name: "Now Rutan! Now Melville! Now, Fossett and Boyer! On, Lawrence! On, Heintz! On, Van G and Sawyer! To the end of the runway! To the tie-down area Now Shut Down ! Shut Down! Shut Down All Engines" As dry leaves that before the wild hurricane fly, when they meet with an obstacle, mount to the sky so up to the top of the FBO they flew, with the sleigh full of flight toys, and Tom P. too. And then, in a twinkling, I heard on the roof the prancing and pawing of each little hoof. As I drew in my head and was turning around, down the chimney Tom P. came with a bound. He was dressed all in fur, from his head to his foot, and his clothes were all tarnished with ashes and soot. A bundle of new FAA rules he had flung on his back, and he looked like a peddler just opening his pack. He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work, and filled all the stockings, with SP and LSA Rulings. And laying his finger aside of his nose, and giving a nod, up the chimney he rose. He sprang to his SLSA, completed his preflight, And away he flew like the down of a thistle. But I heard him exclaim, 'ere he flew out of sight, "Happy Christmas to all, and to all a good night!" (An Adaptation of the Classic Poem, "T'was the Night Before Christmas") Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to All Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com www.MASPL.com 703-313-4818 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GenGrumpy(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 22, 2005
Subject: pre-oiler
For what it's worth, I talked with Bart from Aerosport Power (where my new IO-540 is coming from) about installing a pre-oiler. Bart recommended to save your money on that. He says the 540 engine oil pumps are one of the most reliable ever built (as opposed to some other Lyc and Cont engines), so oil pump failure is remote compared to other potential failure modes (if you were thinking of the pre-oiler as a backup oil pump). As for pre-oiling for starts, Bart advised that spending your money for a good pre-heater is far better. He said that the oil pump reaches full pressure in a couple of revolutions. However, if the oil is cold (and thick), it doesn't flow well and that is where you will get your damage. My 2 cents. Grumpy #40404 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dalton" <jdalton77(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Clecos anyone?
Date: Dec 22, 2005
After a year of reading, lurking, and dreaming I'll be ordering the -10 tail kit before the month is over. All you advanced builders who may be finished with clecos - any interest in selling some of them? Looking especially for the #40's. Thanks! Jeff p.s. also looking for a pneumatic squeezer ..... "It is not the critic who counts: Not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again ... who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who at worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly." ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Clecos anyone?
Date: Dec 23, 2005
Jeff, I may be wrong here. I bought mine new and having used them over and over now, find that a lot of them do not hold on very well or should I say tight enough, so that frequently I find myself discarding some clecos that I will not be using anymore. I will have to buy some more new ones to replenish my stock. I wonder about the wisdom in buying used or old ones to save a few $$. They may let you down, and your nice matched drilled holes may look oval. Personally, I would buy 'em new. Mani Ravee 40339 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Dalton Subject: RV10-List: Clecos anyone? After a year of reading, lurking, and dreaming I'll be ordering the -10 tail kit before the month is over. All you advanced builders who may be finished with clecos - any interest in selling some of them? Looking especially for the #40's. Thanks! Jeff p.s. also looking for a pneumatic squeezer ..... "It is not the critic who counts: Not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again ... who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who at worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly." ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 23, 2005
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Clecos anyone?
You can get used Cleco fasteners from Country Sidewalk. Look in their tool shed. Use <http://www.countrysidewalk.com> or <http://www.countrysidewalk.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=C&Category_Code=TSUTCL> The clecos are $0.25 each. But watch out for the shipping charges. I got some from them and they work fine. I also have some new ones from Avery. Larry <http://lrosen.nerv10.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <jim(at)CombsFive.Com>
Subject: Re: pre-oiler
Date: Dec 23, 2005
Why not use one of the thin film heater (Like those used in seats) with an adhesive backed insulator. Stick it to the bottom of the oil sump. That would keep the oil itself warm. Jim C #40192 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dalton" <jdalton77(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Clecos anyone?
Date: Dec 23, 2005
great point. I hadn't considered that. thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: Mani Ravee To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 5:20 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Clecos anyone? Jeff, I may be wrong here. I bought mine new and having used them over and over now, find that a lot of them do not hold on very well or should I say tight enough, so that frequently I find myself discarding some clecos that I will not be using anymore. I will have to buy some more new ones to replenish my stock. I wonder about the wisdom in buying used or old ones to save a few $$. They may let you down, and your nice matched drilled holes may look oval. Personally, I would buy 'em new. Mani Ravee 40339 From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Dalton Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:09 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Clecos anyone? After a year of reading, lurking, and dreaming I'll be ordering the -10 tail kit before the month is over. All you advanced builders who may be finished with clecos - any interest in selling some of them? Looking especially for the #40's. Thanks! Jeff p.s. also looking for a pneumatic squeezer ..... "It is not the critic who counts: Not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again ... who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who at worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly." ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Kallio" <scout019(at)msn.com>
Subject: workbench
Date: Dec 23, 2005
I have ordered my empennage kit from Van's allready. Wanted to beat the new year price increase. I am getting ready to build workbenches (I am thinking about building 2), and I want to get input from other builders as to what works and doesn't as far as workbench designs. Any input is welcomed as well as a location to get good plans, or a picture I can build from. Thanks. Eric Kallio ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: workbench
Date: Dec 23, 2005
I don't know about a good design, but I have an old 4x8 work bench I use. I also went to the aviation department of SAMS Club and got two folding tables. I can easily move the folding table around but still have the solid 4x8 table when I need it. I am blessed with a great wife that has given me 2.25 bays of our three car garage. Rene' Felker N423CF 40322 50% Fuselage 80% Wings -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kallio Subject: RV10-List: workbench I have ordered my empennage kit from Van's allready. Wanted to beat the new year price increase. I am getting ready to build workbenches (I am thinking about building 2), and I want to get input from other builders as to what works and doesn't as far as workbench designs. Any input is welcomed as well as a location to get good plans, or a picture I can build from. Thanks. Eric Kallio ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 23, 2005
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: workbench
Eric Congratulations on your decision and on the journey that you are embarking on. My $.02, build as many tables/benches as you can comfortably get into the space you will be building in. I'm building in a somewhat limited workspace (15'x15') I started with 2 tables, 1= 3'x8', and the second 2'x8'. When I got to the wings I added another 3'x4' and butted it to the 3x8, to accommodate the length of the wings. I used a design developed by an EAA chapter somewhere, they've published plans and the things are pretty easy to build and pretty rugged at the same time. Here's the link http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/worktabl.htm Good luck Deems Davis # 406 Wings http://deemsrv10.com/ Eric Kallio wrote: > > I have ordered my empennage kit from Van's allready. Wanted to beat > the new year price increase. I am getting ready to build workbenches > (I am thinking about building 2), and I want to get input from other > builders as to what works and doesn't as far as workbench designs. Any > input is welcomed as well as a location to get good plans, or a > picture I can build from. Thanks. > > Eric Kallio > > _________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: workbench
Date: Dec 23, 2005
Here is a good design and easy to build. These are the 3 feet wide tables and not the 2s. http://www.eaa72.org/tech/Table/Table.htm Mani Ravee -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kallio Subject: RV10-List: workbench I have ordered my empennage kit from Van's allready. Wanted to beat the new year price increase. I am getting ready to build workbenches (I am thinking about building 2), and I want to get input from other builders as to what works and doesn't as far as workbench designs. Any input is welcomed as well as a location to get good plans, or a picture I can build from. Thanks. Eric Kallio ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 23, 2005
From: Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net>
Subject: Re: workbench
Deems Davis wrote: > I used a design developed by an EAA chapter somewhere, they've > published plans and the things are pretty easy to build and pretty > rugged at the same time. Here's the link > http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/worktabl.htm I'll second this. I built 2 of them at 3x6 feet and placed them end to end. When I get to the wings, I'll add a third. Easy to build, and very sturdy. -Dj ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: workbench
Date: Dec 23, 2005
I have found it very handy to have the top surface overhang at least on the ends and also on the front and back as well. This allows clamping parts to the table. Dick Sipp RV4 RV10 #65 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dj Merrill" <deej(at)deej.net> Subject: Re: RV10-List: workbench > > Deems Davis wrote: >> I used a design developed by an EAA chapter somewhere, they've published >> plans and the things are pretty easy to build and pretty rugged at the >> same time. Here's the link >> http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/worktabl.htm > > I'll second this. I built 2 of them at 3x6 feet and > placed them end to end. When I get to the wings, I'll > add a third. Easy to build, and very sturdy. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 23, 2005
From: Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net>
Subject: Re: workbench
Richard Sipp wrote: > > I have found it very handy to have the top surface overhang at least on > the ends and also on the front and back as well. This allows clamping > parts to the table. Good point - I should have mentioned that as well. I have a 1.5 inch overhang all the way around, and have found it indespensible for clamping. -Dj ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: workbench
Date: Dec 23, 2005
From: "Bobby J. Hughes" <bhughes(at)qnsi.net>
The EAA1000 benches are very sturdy and will last a lifetime. I built two but with a slight modification. Cut the top oversize to leave about a 2-3" clamp edge all the way around. Come in very hand. Bobby 40116 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Subject: Re: RV10-List: workbench Eric Congratulations on your decision and on the journey that you are embarking on. My $.02, build as many tables/benches as you can comfortably get into the space you will be building in. I'm building in a somewhat limited workspace (15'x15') I started with 2 tables, 13'x8', and the second 2'x8'. When I got to the wings I added another 3'x4' and butted it to the 3x8, to accommodate the length of the wings. I used a design developed by an EAA chapter somewhere, they've published plans and the things are pretty easy to build and pretty rugged at the same time. Here's the link http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/worktabl.htm Good luck Deems Davis # 406 Wings http://deemsrv10.com/ Eric Kallio wrote: > > I have ordered my empennage kit from Van's allready. Wanted to beat > the new year price increase. I am getting ready to build workbenches > (I am thinking about building 2), and I want to get input from other > builders as to what works and doesn't as far as workbench designs. Any > input is welcomed as well as a location to get good plans, or a > picture I can build from. Thanks. > > Eric Kallio > > _________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 23, 2005
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: workbench
I have 2 modified EA type work benches. The tops are solid core doors, so they are 30" wide. I made them 35" high (to the top of the work surface). If I were to build them again I would make the standard table height (30"). I am 5'-10" and having them slight lightly lower than they are would make it easier riveting and drilling. Also, I only left 3/4" overhang on each side. An overhang of 1 -1/2" would be much better. It would also make the bottom shelf 24" wide, and I could have gotten 2 from a 4x8 sheet of plywood. Since the solid core doors are nice and heavy, I did not fasten them to the frame. This way I can move the top around to get more or less overhang, depending on what I am doing. I also modified the frame on one side so I can slide the door down and mount the dimpler, slide the other table on the other side of the dimpler, and dimple away. Then when I am done I can store the dimpler and free up some room. The EA design make for a very strong bench. The folding table make them easy to store and free up some valuable work shop area. I also have a bench that is a full 3/4" thick 4x8 sheet of plywood sitting on top on old kitchen table. They all work well. You can see photos of my benches here <http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Construct/tools/Workshop/index.html> Larry Rosen 40356 Fuselage Eric Kallio wrote: > > I have ordered my empennage kit from Van's allready. Wanted to beat > the new year price increase. I am getting ready to build workbenches > (I am thinking about building 2), and I want to get input from other > builders as to what works and doesn't as far as workbench designs. Any > input is welcomed as well as a location to get good plans, or a > picture I can build from. Thanks. > > Eric Kallio > > _________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 2005
From: bruce breckenridge <bbreckenridge(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: workbench
I also used the EAA plans. I liked them so much, I took the leftover piece of 3'x4' and made another table (naturally, I had to buy some more 2"x4"'s). Then, I like that so much, I did it all over again. I'm working out of a decent sized hanger, so I had the room for all these tables. I put the 2'x5''s against the walls for tools and grinders and drill presses and parts bins and such. The 2 3'x5' tables ended up getting clamped together with the dimpler in between. Just make sure you modify the plans to include the top overhang. I also covered each top with a couple layers of butcher paper. Overall, I think I'm using about 13'x13' of the corner of my hangar. As you build different worktables, keep them all the same height - you never know which two you're gonna want to attach! Bruce #18 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 2005
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: workbench
I cover my tables with cardboard. This way you can lay a part flat and put a cleco in. The cardboard flexes and the cleco grabs the part. Larry <http://lrosen.nerv10.com> bruce breckenridge wrote: > >... I also covered each top with a couple layers of butcher paper. ... > >Bruce >#18 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Testement" <jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com>
Subject: workbench
Date: Dec 24, 2005
I made 2 30"x 8' EAA tables with a 2" overhang - seems to be a perfect size for everything. I did not put casters on them because I though that that would not provide good support for the dimpler, but now I wish I had put casters on the bottoms of both tables. I end up moving them around a lot and I don't think casters would have made any difference to dimpling stability. I often put some thin carpet or butcher paper on the tables depending on the operation. The shelves below are really valuable. John Testement jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com 40321 Working on QB fuse -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes Subject: RE: RV10-List: workbench The EAA1000 benches are very sturdy and will last a lifetime. I built two but with a slight modification. Cut the top oversize to leave about a 2-3" clamp edge all the way around. Come in very hand. Bobby 40116 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Subject: Re: RV10-List: workbench Eric Congratulations on your decision and on the journey that you are embarking on. My $.02, build as many tables/benches as you can comfortably get into the space you will be building in. I'm building in a somewhat limited workspace (15'x15') I started with 2 tables, 1= 3'x8', and the second 2'x8'. When I got to the wings I added another 3'x4' and butted it to the 3x8, to accommodate the length of the wings. I used a design developed by an EAA chapter somewhere, they've published plans and the things are pretty easy to build and pretty rugged at the same time. Here's the link http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/worktabl.htm Good luck Deems Davis # 406 Wings http://deemsrv10.com/ Eric Kallio wrote: > > I have ordered my empennage kit from Van's allready. Wanted to beat > the new year price increase. I am getting ready to build workbenches > (I am thinking about building 2), and I want to get input from other > builders as to what works and doesn't as far as workbench designs. Any > input is welcomed as well as a location to get good plans, or a > picture I can build from. Thanks. > > Eric Kallio > > _________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 2005
From: Dave Lammers <lammers.david(at)mcleodusa.net>
Subject: Re: workbench
I covered my tables with berber carpet. The small filings, chips, and the occasional errant rivet fall down in between the loops of the carpet and the aluminum skins just float along on top and don't get scratched. I even cut out several several rectangular openings exactly the size of the backrivet plate. I keep the carpet in these slots usually, but when backriveting, I take out the carpet "plug" and put in the backrivet plate. It is the same height as the berber carpet--works great. Vacuum up the small debris on the carpet at the end of the workday. The best of the Christmas season to all the fine folks on this list! Dave Lammers RV-6 N6X RV-10 elevators done today! Larry Rosen wrote: > > I cover my tables with cardboard. This way you can lay a part flat > and put a cleco in. The cardboard flexes and the cleco grabs the part. > > Larry > <http://lrosen.nerv10.com> > > bruce breckenridge wrote: > >> >> >> ... I also covered each top with a couple layers of butcher paper. ... >> Bruce >> #18 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > Text inserted by Panda Platinum 2005 Internet Security: > > This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited > mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: > http://127.0.0.1:6083/Panda?ID=pav_17368&SPAM=true > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave & Brenda Emond" <d_emond(at)mweb.co.za>
Subject: Re: Conversion from inches to millibars
Date: Dec 25, 2005
Can anyone help with the conversion for atmospheric pressure, when converting from inches to millibars. Merry Christmas to all. Dave Emond RV 10 - busy on canopy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Conversion from inches to millibars
Date: Dec 25, 2005
How about one of the online converters: http://www.csgnetwork.com/directbarpresscvt.html or: http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/pressure Or here for ANYTHING you want to convert: http://www.martindalecenter.com/Calculators.html Mani -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave & Brenda Emond Subject: Re: RV10-List: Conversion from inches to millibars Can anyone help with the conversion for atmospheric pressure, when converting from inches to millibars. Merry Christmas to all. Dave Emond RV 10 - busy on canopy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dalton" <jdalton77(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: workbench
Date: Dec 25, 2005
Dave, That is a EXCELLENT workbench tip. I am going to try that. Thanks! Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Lammers To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 3:28 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: workbench I covered my tables with berber carpet. The small filings, chips, and the occasional errant rivet fall down in between the loops of the carpet and the aluminum skins just float along on top and don't get scratched. I even cut out several several rectangular openings exactly the size of the backrivet plate. I keep the carpet in these slots usually, but when backriveting, I take out the carpet "plug" and put in the backrivet plate. It is the same height as the berber carpet--works great. Vacuum up the small debris on the carpet at the end of the workday. The best of the Christmas season to all the fine folks on this list! Dave Lammers RV-6 N6X RV-10 elevators done today! Larry Rosen wrote: I cover my tables with cardboard. This way you can lay a part flat and put a cleco in. The cardboard flexes and the cleco grabs the part. Larry <http://lrosen.nerv10.com> bruce breckenridge wrote: ... I also covered each top with a couple layers of butcher paper. ... Bruce #18 Text inserted by Panda Platinum 2005 Internet Security: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://127.0.0.1:6083/Panda?IDpav_17368&SPAMtrue ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JohnR" <rv7(at)agfp.com>
Subject: Re: Conversion from inches to millibars
Date: Dec 25, 2005
Try this (inHg32) * 33.8639 = (mb) JohnR _____ From: Dave & Brenda Emond [mailto:d_emond(at)mweb.co.za] Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Re: RV10-List: Conversion from inches to millibars Can anyone help with the conversion for atmospheric pressure, when converting from inches to millibars. Merry Christmas to all. Dave Emond RV 10 - busy on canopy Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing www.vansaircraft.net _____ * Visit your group "RV7and7A <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV7and7A> " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: RV7and7A-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . _____ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave & Brenda Emond" <d_emond(at)mweb.co.za>
Subject: Re: Lasar Mags
Date: Dec 26, 2005
Has anyone in the group fitted lasar mags to an IO-540 yet. I have received a reply form asking for P-Lead distances?? I am not sure where to position the "control box". Would be grateful for suggestions. One place would be on the right hand side of the firewall, in the engine compartment. Dave Emond RV10 #40159 Busy on Fuse Lid. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave & Brenda Emond" <d_emond(at)mweb.co.za>
Subject: Re: Oil Filter adaptor for IO-540
Date: Dec 26, 2005
I have ordered a TMXIO - 540. Is it necessary to get an oil filter adaptor?? Dave Emond # 40159 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: skatetrainer(at)comcast.net
Subject: SR22 time and IFR complete
Date: Dec 26, 2005
I completed my instrument checkride!! I am flying both the SR22 and the SR20. I am assuming that the RV10 will handle and perform like the SR22. Lots of power requiring lots of right rudder. The glass instrument panel is fairly easy to transition into. An autopilot is an absolute must - this is not an airplane to fly by hand in the clouds without huge hours and proficiency. The SR22 has a monster kick when the throttle/prop goes full forward and it jumps off of the runway. 180 knots in cruise makes things happen very quickly and one can get beind the aircraft very quickly. The landing attitude seems very flat compared to any Cessna I've flown. I've heard of several tail strikes and some bad VFR decisions of fairly inexperienced Cirrus pilots trying to fly a high performance airplane without much training. Both the instrument training and the SR22 training have given me a healthy appreciation for what is going to await me in the RV10. The progress on the kit is currently on hold. Emp done and QB kits in storage. I've built up a glass panel with MS flight sim and make noises in the meantime. Dave I completed my instrument checkride!! I am flying both the SR22 and the SR20. I am assuming that the RV10 will handle and perform like the SR22. Lots of power requiring lots of right rudder. The glass instrument panel is fairly easy to transition into. An autopilot is an absolute must - this is not an airplane to fly by hand in the clouds without huge hours and proficiency. The SR22 has a monster kick when the throttle/prop goes full forward and it jumps off of the runway. 180 knots in cruise makes things happen very quickly and one can get beind the aircraft very quickly. The landing attitude seems very flat compared to any Cessna I've flown. I've heard of several tail strikes and some bad VFR decisions of fairly inexperienced Cirrus pilots trying to fly a high performance airplane without much training. Both the instrument training and the SR22 training have given me a healthy appreciation for what is going to await me in the RV10. The progress on the kit is currently on hold. Emp done and QB kits in storage. I've built up a glass panel with MS flight sim and make noises in the meantime. Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 26, 2005
From: "Joseph Czachorowski" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Cradles
Fellas.... When it comes to using cradles for the RV10 Horizontal Stabilizer skins, try using what I did. I went to Lowe's and bought some DOW blue Styrofoam board. I bought the 2 inch thick stuff. It is very rigid and works perfectly for holding the skins in place while drilling/cleco/riveting. I like it better than the plywood that is recommended in the plans. I used 4 cradles total, 2 per side. I used this very same stuff when building my RV8. The neat part is that it doesn't scratch the skins (even with the blue plastic removed) and is very light and easy to work with. You can also tilt the whole cradle assembly 90 degrees to make it easier to work on. Van's tells you in the RV10 plans that these cradles just hold the skins in place, it is not a jig (no jigs at all in the RV10). So, why not make it easy to work on? Try it. I think you will like it. See some pics at the link below. Sorry, I don't have a web site to post them on. http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slideshow.jsp?modefromshare&Ucytey2fk.d0a9rww&Uy-mfn02g&Ux1 Zack ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Vetterman's exhaust clearance.
Date: Dec 27, 2005
From: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com>
I installed the vetterman exhaust on the weekend and noticed that the right heat/muff only has 1/4" clearance to the bottom of the cowl while the left side has almost 1". Also I was not happy with the way in whioch the hangers support the heat/muff. They are supported off to the side of the pipe with a vertical hangar and then an angled support from there. This make the heat/muff supported fairly well from going up/down or left/right, but if the heat/muff is twisted which is easy to do, it changes the clearance all the way around. The only thing to keep the heat/muff from twisting is the three spring load bolts. No matter how tight you make these, it is still easy to twist the heat/muff to the point where the heat/muff will contact the cowl or the bottom of the fuse. Has anyone else encountered this? Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 Almost done with FWF. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 27, 2005
Subject: Re: RV10-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 12/26/05
Marcus, A friend of mine who is building an RV-8 had some difficulty with Stark. There were a couple issues, but basically the turn around time was considerable (months). I'll get you in touch with him directly if you are interested in hearing the details. I went with Eastern Avionics for my avionics. They typically deal with certificated aircraft, but I called them up to see what they could do. They were willing to match pricing and the harness they built was very complete and first class. They had everything in stock and it took less than a week to wire up and ship my GMA340 intercomm and SL30 radio. They even built in pig tails for my Blue Mountain EFISs and GNS430. I powered up my panel last week and everything worked great. Additionally, Ron Sormrude (_ronald(at)avionix.com_ (mailto:ronald(at)avionix.com) ) is a great guy to work with. Jim McGrew 40134 In a message dated 12/27/2005 1:13:05 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, rv10-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: RV10-List: Stark Avionics I spoke to John at Stark Avionics and plan to order everything through him ASAP. It sounds like the shop is very busy so turn around is about a month. Does anyone have anything other than positive experiences I should be aware of prior to sending a check? BTW, one of the posts mentioned they don't take credit cards. Actually they do, they just add 3% to the total since their markup is so low. Marcus 40286 - workshop is finally finished, now back to the airplane!!! -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Panning Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin GTX-327 pricing I checked with Starks Avionics and this is what I found: GNS-430 $5855 + $250 pre-wire. Add $20 shipping GMA-340 $1140 + $200 pre-wire. Add $20 shipping GTX-327 $1420 + $70 prte-wire. Add $17 shipping GNS-530 $9,475 + $250 pre-wire. Add $30 shipping GTX-330 $3170 + $120 pre-wire. Add $25 shipping These prices are better than Van's prices (below): GNS-430 $6750 GMA-340 $1485 GTX-327 $1655 GNS-530 $10695 GTX-330 $3395 ~ a $2700 savings. Thanks for sending the link. I'm not close to ordering yet, but for those that are I wonder if a bulk purchase could be negotiated? Can anyone find better prices? Eric ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 27, 2005
From: jwik <jwik(at)crary.com>
Subject: Re: Clecos anyone?
Congratulations! I too ordered the tail kit last week! I knew it was the plane for me when It first showed up at Oshkosh. It will be interesting to track your progress. This email list is great! I just discovered it a couple weeks ago and have already learned a lot! Jay Wik Jeff Dalton wrote: > After a year of reading, lurking, and dreaming I'll be ordering the > -10 tail kit before the month is over. > > All you advanced builders who may be finished with clecos - any > interest in selling some of them? Looking especially for the #40's. > > Thanks! > > Jeff > > p.s. also looking for a pneumatic squeezer ..... > > > > "It is not the critic who counts: Not the man who points out how the > strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them > better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, > whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives > valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again ... who spends > himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the > triumph of high achievement, and who at worst, if he fails, at least > he fails while daring greatly." ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 12/26/05
Date: Dec 27, 2005
Jim, Thanks for the update, I'll give the folks at Eastern a shout. I think I got my audio panel from them so hopefully they'll give me the same match pricing treatment. Marcus -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JSMcGrew(at)aol.com Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV10-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 12/26/05 Marcus, A friend of mine who is building an RV-8 had some difficulty with Stark. There were a couple issues, but basically the turn around time was considerable (months). I'll get you in touch with him directly if you are interested in hearing the details. I went with Eastern Avionics for my avionics. They typically deal with certificated aircraft, but I called them up to see what they could do. They were willing to match pricing and the harness they built was very complete and first class. They had everything in stock and it took less than a week to wire up and ship my GMA340 intercomm and SL30 radio. They even built in pig tails for my Blue Mountain EFISs and GNS430. I powered up my panel last week and everything worked great. Additionally, Ron Sormrude (ronald(at)avionix.com) is a great guy to work with. Jim McGrew 40134 In a message dated 12/27/2005 1:13:05 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, rv10-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: RV10-List: Stark Avionics I spoke to John at Stark Avionics and plan to order everything through him ASAP. It sounds like the shop is very busy so turn around is about a month. Does anyone have anything other than positive experiences I should be aware of prior to sending a check? BTW, one of the posts mentioned they don't take credit cards. Actually they do, they just add 3% to the total since their markup is so low. Marcus 40286 - workshop is finally finished, now back to the airplane!!! -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Panning Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin GTX-327 pricing I checked with Starks Avionics and this is what I found: GNS-430 $5855 + $250 pre-wire. Add $20 shipping GMA-340 $1140 + $200 pre-wire. Add $20 shipping GTX-327 $1420 + $70 prte-wire. Add $17 shipping GNS-530 $9,475 + $250 pre-wire. Add $30 shipping GTX-330 $3170 + $120 pre-wire. Add $25 shipping These prices are better than Van's prices (below): GNS-430 $6750 GMA-340 $1485 GTX-327 $1655 GNS-530 $10695 GTX-330 $3395 ~ a $2700 savings. Thanks for sending the link. I'm not close to ordering yet, but for those that are I wonder if a bulk purchase could be negotiated? Can anyone find better prices? Eric ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2005
From: Darton Steve <sfdarton(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: AOA vs. Stall Warning
This is a question for the flying 10s. Is anyone flying with just an AOA and no stall warning? Is there any good reason to install the Stall Warning system if AOA is installed? Thanks Steve 40212 Wings (obviously) __________________________________ http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2005
From: Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AOA vs. Stall Warning
Not flying, but another question... I installed the vane stall warning AND the AOA. My reasoning was that the AOA needs to be calibrated in-flight. So, for first flight I wanted a "working" stall warning. After the AOA is calibrated and further down the road I may close up the vane. Is that reasonable? -Sean #40303 Darton Steve wrote: > > This is a question for the flying 10s. > > Is anyone flying with just an AOA and no stall > warning? Is there any good reason to install the Stall > Warning system if AOA is installed? > > Thanks > Steve 40212 Wings (obviously) > > > > > __________________________________ > http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: AOA vs. Stall Warning
Date: Dec 28, 2005
From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com>
I believe the FAR is pretty specific about how and when stall warning is activated and an AOA system doesn't necessarily meet the FAR requirements. So your best bet is to have both. TDT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darton Steve Subject: RV10-List: AOA vs. Stall Warning This is a question for the flying 10s. Is anyone flying with just an AOA and no stall warning? Is there any good reason to install the Stall Warning system if AOA is installed? Thanks Steve 40212 Wings (obviously) __________________________________ http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: AOA vs. Stall Warning
Date: Dec 28, 2005
Is this true? Stall warning REQUIRED? I didn't remember the old GOOSEACAT list of required instrumentation to include a stall warning device... I'll have to dig into the FARAIM and see. I've already closed up the stall warning locator holes in both wings, and am going with AOA only. Not trying to start up a debate, I'm just comfortable going that way. cj #40410 wings www.perfectlygoodairplane.net -----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOA vs. Stall Warning I believe the FAR is pretty specific about how and when stall warning is activated and an AOA system doesn't necessarily meet the FAR requirements. So your best bet is to have both. TDT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darton Steve Subject: RV10-List: AOA vs. Stall Warning This is a question for the flying 10s. Is anyone flying with just an AOA and no stall warning? Is there any good reason to install the Stall Warning system if AOA is installed? Thanks Steve 40212 Wings (obviously) __________________________________ http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2005
From: Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AOA vs. Stall Warning
I've heard of many doing it that way Chris, but that's why I asked the question... With AOA only, how does one go without the stall indication during first flight due to the AOA needing calibration in-flight? Seat of pants? :) -Sean #40303 Chris Johnston wrote: > > Is this true? Stall warning REQUIRED? I didn't remember the old > GOOSEACAT list of required instrumentation to include a stall warning > device... I'll have to dig into the FARAIM and see. I've already > closed up the stall warning locator holes in both wings, and am going > with AOA only. Not trying to start up a debate, I'm just comfortable > going that way. > > cj > #40410 > wings > www.perfectlygoodairplane.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim > Dawson-Townsend > Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:15 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOA vs. Stall Warning > > > > > I believe the FAR is pretty specific about how and when stall warning is > activated and an AOA system doesn't necessarily meet the FAR > requirements. So your best bet is to have both. > > TDT > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darton Steve > Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 1:20 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: AOA vs. Stall Warning > > > This is a question for the flying 10s. > > Is anyone flying with just an AOA and no stall > warning? Is there any good reason to install the Stall > Warning system if AOA is installed? > > Thanks > Steve 40212 Wings (obviously) > > > > > __________________________________ > http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: AOA vs. Stall Warning
Date: Dec 28, 2005
From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
This is from the Advanced Control Systems AOApro website under FAQs - "AOAs for the Legacy and RVs come pre-calibrated so you will have stall warning, best engine out glide and other performance AOAs from the very first test flight. Aircraft with pre-calibrated AOAs require a short verification procedure." I'll call that plus the SOP (seat of pants) good. cj #40410 wings www.perfectlygoodairplane.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOA vs. Stall Warning I've heard of many doing it that way Chris, but that's why I asked the question... With AOA only, how does one go without the stall indication during first flight due to the AOA needing calibration in-flight? Seat of pants? :) -Sean #40303 Chris Johnston wrote: > > Is this true? Stall warning REQUIRED? I didn't remember the old > GOOSEACAT list of required instrumentation to include a stall warning > device... I'll have to dig into the FARAIM and see. I've already > closed up the stall warning locator holes in both wings, and am going > with AOA only. Not trying to start up a debate, I'm just comfortable > going that way. > > cj > #40410 > wings > www.perfectlygoodairplane.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim > Dawson-Townsend > Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:15 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOA vs. Stall Warning > > > > > I believe the FAR is pretty specific about how and when stall warning is > activated and an AOA system doesn't necessarily meet the FAR > requirements. So your best bet is to have both. > > TDT > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darton Steve > Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 1:20 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: AOA vs. Stall Warning > > > This is a question for the flying 10s. > > Is anyone flying with just an AOA and no stall > warning? Is there any good reason to install the Stall > Warning system if AOA is installed? > > Thanks > Steve 40212 Wings (obviously) > > > > > __________________________________ > http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2005
From: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: AOA vs. Stall Warning
<43B2DDD2.2020306(at)cox.net> This leads me to another question. How do you know that the "stall warning vane" is properly set ?. It's my understanding that they are adjustable so as to "fit" your airplane BUT are ground adjustable only. Install it, go fly. Too early-too late ? ?, re-adjust, go fly. Still not exactly right, re-adjust, go fly. Dang adjusted too far, re-adjust, go fly. How do you finally determine the "right" adjustment. Yep...by the seat of your pants. In N561FS (AOA only) part of the first flight was to simulate landing attitude & stall speed at altitude. Setting up the AOA required some setup before the flight & pushing one button, one time inside the airplane as the "seat of the pants" and the airplane was yelling STALL COMING. Ya gotta set either one, the AOA is just easier (IMNSHO) to get it right the first time on the first flight under actual flying conditions. KABONG Do Not Archive. HAPPY NEW YEAR, YA'LL. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Stephens" <schmoboy(at)cox.net> Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOA vs. Stall Warning > > Not flying, but another question... > > I installed the vane stall warning AND the AOA. My reasoning was that the > AOA needs to be calibrated in-flight. So, for first flight I wanted a > "working" stall warning. After the AOA is calibrated and further down the > road I may close up the vane. > > Is that reasonable? > > -Sean #40303 > > Darton Steve wrote: >> >> This is a question for the flying 10s. >> >> Is anyone flying with just an AOA and no stall >> warning? Is there any good reason to install the Stall >> Warning system if AOA is installed? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EMAproducts(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 28, 2005
Subject: Re: RV10-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 12/26/05
RV 10 builders As everyone who was at OSH in '05 knows Monday night we had a big blow. Unfortunately, my album of photos was nearly totally destroyed by moisture when our tents blew down. Many of the photographs were originals and sadly I had no duplicates. Between this and a computer hard drive failure I have lost a large number of photos from my customers. I am unable to contact many due to e-mail address changes, moving etc. If you have the RiteAngle installed on your aircraft please send me either via e-mail or postal a copy if you would. I lost many photos going back over 10 years from our R&D days. Thanks in advance! Sincerely, Elbie Elbie Mendenhall EM Aviation, LLC 13411 NE Prairie Rd Brush Prairie, WA 98606 360-260-0772 _www.riteangle.com_ (http://www.riteangle.com/) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2005
From: Darton Steve <sfdarton(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: specific FAR
Tim, Can you specify that specific FAR? (:specifically speaking:) Thanks Steve I believe the FAR is pretty specific about how and when stall warning is activated and an AOA system doesn't necessarily meet the FAR requirements. So your best bet is to have both. TDT __________________________________ http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Vetterman's exhaust clearance.
Date: Dec 28, 2005
Mine was the same. I added 4 revolutions on each spring bolt and it helps. I am hoping that once I attach the heater hoses it will help a little bit. I may try to add one more support to stiffen it up. It took quite a bit of rotation to get mine to touch. One thing I did find was that the supports that go into the rubber hose were slipping. I really roughed up the steel supports that go into the hose with course sand paper and then took a round file and roughed up the inside of the tube. I then added some friction tape to the outside of the rubber tube to increase the diameter so I could tighten the clamp more. It really stiffened it up nicely. If yours rotates, check to see if yours is slipping as well. Here are some pictures of my installation. http://scottandranae.smugmug.com/gallery/518426/5/49938673 http://scottandranae.smugmug.com/gallery/518426/6 Scott Schmidt sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com -----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R [NTK] Subject: RV10-List: Vetterman's exhaust clearance. I installed the vetterman exhaust on the weekend and noticed that the right heat/muff only has 1/4" clearance to the bottom of the cowl while the left side has almost 1". Also I was not happy with the way in whioch the hangers support the heat/muff. They are supported off to the side of the pipe with a vertical hangar and then an angled support from there. This make the heat/muff supported fairly well from going up/down or left/right, but if the heat/muff is twisted which is easy to do, it changes the clearance all the way around. The only thing to keep the heat/muff from twisting is the three spring load bolts. No matter how tight you make these, it is still easy to twist the heat/muff to the point where the heat/muff will contact the cowl or the bottom of the fuse. Has anyone else encountered this? Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 Almost done with FWF. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: specific FAR
Date: Dec 28, 2005
From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com>
Here you go, but I suppose if we're experimental we get some slack on meeting the FARs . . . Note also that even consistent wing buffet can qualify as "stall warning" if occurs in the correct regime . . . TDT ------------------------------------------- 23.207 Stall warning. (a) There must be a clear and distinctive stall warning, with the flaps and landing gear in any normal position, in straight and turning flight. (b) The stall warning may be furnished either through the inherent aerodynamic qualities of the airplane or by a device that will give clearly distinguishable indications under expected conditions of flight. However, a visual stall warning device that requires the attention of the crew within the cockpit is not acceptable by itself. (c) During the stall tests required by 23.201(b) and 23.203(a)(1), the stall warning must begin at a speed exceeding the stalling speed by a margin of not less than 5 knots and must continue until the stall occurs. (d) When following procedures furnished in accordance with 23.1585, the stall warning must not occur during a takeoff with all engines operating, a takeoff continued with one engine inoperative, or during an approach to landing. (e) During the stall tests required by 23.203(a)(2), the stall warning must begin sufficiently in advance of the stall for the stall to be averted by pilot action taken after the stall warning first occurs. (f) For acrobatic category airplanes, an artificial stall warning may be mutable, provided that it is armed automatically during takeoff and rearmed automatically in the approach configuration. [Amdt. 23-7, 34 FR 13087, Aug. 13, 1969, as amended by Amdt. 23-45, 58 FR 42159, Aug. 6, 1993; Amdt. 23-50, 61 FR 5191, Feb. 9, 1996] -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darton Steve Subject: RV10-List: specific FAR Tim, Can you specify that specific FAR? (:specifically speaking:) Thanks Steve I believe the FAR is pretty specific about how and when stall warning is activated and an AOA system doesn't necessarily meet the FAR requirements. So your best bet is to have both. TDT __________________________________ http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2005
From: "William" <wcurtis(at)core.com>
Subject: RE: specific FAR
I was about to ask this same question. It always irks me when folks talk about FARs without citing the specific reference. It's a learned response after having to deal with many an A&P/AI who make up FARs on the fly to justify their billings. If you are citing an FAR in part 23 then my question is --what does that have to do with an RV? The only other FAR that applies to RVs is part 91--however I can't imaging what in part 91 would refer to stall warning. > > >Tim, >Can you specify that specific FAR? (:specifically >speaking:) >Thanks >Steve > >> >> >> >> >>I believe the FAR is pretty specific about how and >>when stall warning is activated and an AOA system doesn't >>necessarily meet the FAR requirements. So your best bet >>is to have both. >> >>TDT William Curtis http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Indran Chelvanayagam" <ichelva(at)netspace.net.au>
Subject: Static line question
Date: Dec 29, 2005
Guys, this may seem like a stupid question : There are two static ports on either side of the rear fuse. These need to be connected to a 'T' piece, then fed forward to the instrument panel. Do the two tubing arms of the 'T' need to be the same length? IE, does the length of tubing from each static port to the connector need to be the same length on both sides? Although the ports are meant to be 'balanced', I would think that the low pressures/flow involved would mean that differences in the tubing length are not significant. BTW - I'm using the Cleaveland tools static ports with tygon tubing (Mike Lauritsen - if you're reading this, I received the tubing etc yesterday after 3 weeks! - mail goes slowly around Christmas in Australia!) Indran Chelvanayagam ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: specific FAR
Date: Dec 28, 2005
For what it's worth, I didn't have stall warning or AOA on any of my previous 3 airplanes (Q-2, Skybolt, RV-6) and the inspectors never brought anything up about it. AOA would be nice to have, but neither is a FAA requirement for us homebuilders. Regarding the reference to Part 23 below: I think this will be useful: 23.1 Applicability. (a) This part prescribes airworthiness standards for the issue of type certificates, and changes to those certificates, for airplanes in the normal, utility, acrobatic, and commuter categories. Note the lack of 'Experimental' in the above paragraph. Marcus -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend Subject: RE: RV10-List: specific FAR Here you go, but I suppose if we're experimental we get some slack on meeting the FARs . . . Note also that even consistent wing buffet can qualify as "stall warning" if occurs in the correct regime . . . TDT ------------------------------------------- 23.207 Stall warning. (a) There must be a clear and distinctive stall warning, with the flaps and landing gear in any normal position, in straight and turning flight. (b) The stall warning may be furnished either through the inherent aerodynamic qualities of the airplane or by a device that will give clearly distinguishable indications under expected conditions of flight. However, a visual stall warning device that requires the attention of the crew within the cockpit is not acceptable by itself. (c) During the stall tests required by 23.201(b) and 23.203(a)(1), the stall warning must begin at a speed exceeding the stalling speed by a margin of not less than 5 knots and must continue until the stall occurs. (d) When following procedures furnished in accordance with 23.1585, the stall warning must not occur during a takeoff with all engines operating, a takeoff continued with one engine inoperative, or during an approach to landing. (e) During the stall tests required by 23.203(a)(2), the stall warning must begin sufficiently in advance of the stall for the stall to be averted by pilot action taken after the stall warning first occurs. (f) For acrobatic category airplanes, an artificial stall warning may be mutable, provided that it is armed automatically during takeoff and rearmed automatically in the approach configuration. [Amdt. 23-7, 34 FR 13087, Aug. 13, 1969, as amended by Amdt. 23-45, 58 FR 42159, Aug. 6, 1993; Amdt. 23-50, 61 FR 5191, Feb. 9, 1996] -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darton Steve Subject: RV10-List: specific FAR Tim, Can you specify that specific FAR? (:specifically speaking:) Thanks Steve I believe the FAR is pretty specific about how and when stall warning is activated and an AOA system doesn't necessarily meet the FAR requirements. So your best bet is to have both. TDT __________________________________ http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2005
From: Darton Steve <sfdarton(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: specific FAR
Tim, Now that is specific! Thanks Steve --- Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote: > Dawson-Townsend" > > Here you go, but I suppose if we're experimental we > get some slack on meeting the FARs . . . > > Note also that even consistent wing buffet can > qualify as "stall warning" if occurs in the correct > regime . . . > > TDT > ------------------------------------------- > 23.207 Stall warning. > (a) There must be a clear and distinctive stall > warning, with the flaps and landing gear in any > normal position, in straight and turning flight. > > (b) The stall warning may be furnished either > through the inherent aerodynamic qualities of the > airplane or by a device that will give clearly > distinguishable indications under expected > conditions of flight. However, a visual stall > warning device that requires the attention of the > crew within the cockpit is not acceptable by itself. > > > (c) During the stall tests required by 23.201(b) > and 23.203(a)(1), the stall warning must begin at a > speed exceeding the stalling speed by a margin of > not less than 5 knots and must continue until the > stall occurs. > > (d) When following procedures furnished in > accordance with 23.1585, the stall warning must not > occur during a takeoff with all engines operating, a > takeoff continued with one engine inoperative, or > during an approach to landing. > > (e) During the stall tests required by > 23.203(a)(2), the stall warning must begin > sufficiently in advance of the stall for the stall > to be averted by pilot action taken after the stall > warning first occurs. > > (f) For acrobatic category airplanes, an artificial > stall warning may be mutable, provided that it is > armed automatically during takeoff and rearmed > automatically in the approach configuration. > > [Amdt. 23-7, 34 FR 13087, Aug. 13, 1969, as amended > by Amdt. 23-45, 58 FR 42159, Aug. 6, 1993; Amdt. > 23-50, 61 FR 5191, Feb. 9, 1996] > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On > Behalf Of Darton Steve > Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 4:23 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: specific FAR > > > > Tim, > Can you specify that specific FAR? (:specifically > speaking:) > Thanks > Steve > > Dawson-Townsend" > > > > > I believe the FAR is pretty specific about how and > when stall warning > is > activated and an AOA system doesn't necessarily meet > the FAR > requirements. So your best bet is to have both. > > TDT > > > > > > __________________________________ > http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Static line question
Date: Dec 28, 2005
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Morning Indran, I would try to get them close but it really shouldn't make a difference as it is static pressure and will balance itself out. Cheers, Michael ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Indran Chelvanayagam Subject: RV10-List: Static line question Guys, this may seem like a stupid question : There are two static ports on either side of the rear fuse. These need to be connected to a 'T' piece, then fed forward to the instrument panel. Do the two tubing arms of the 'T' need to be the same length? IE, does the length of tubing from each static port to the connector need to be the same length on both sides? Although the ports are meant to be 'balanced', I would think that the low pressures/flow involved would mean that differences in the tubing length are not significant. BTW - I'm using the Cleaveland tools static ports with tygon tubing (Mike Lauritsen - if you're reading this, I received the tubing etc yesterday after 3 weeks! - mail goes slowly around Christmas in Australia!) Indran Chelvanayagam ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2005
From: Jim Wade <jwadejr(at)direcway.com>
Subject: Panel
If anyone is thinking of using Aerocrafters AKA Lancair avionics you might want to email me first!!! They have a great looking panel, but customer service sucks!!!!!!!!!! Jim 383 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RobHickman(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 28, 2005
Subject: AFS AOA Stall Warning and Wing Drain,
1. The Advanced Flight Systems AOA is sent out pre calibrated for the RV-10 and should work on the first flight. 2. The AOA does meet the requirements for a stall warning with the flaps up and down. Some systems don't know if the flaps are up or down and therefore use the most conservative data. The problem is that a a certified stall warning device can't warn you too early. We have been through the certification process and our system does meet the requirements. 3. The AFS AOA will display best approach, best glide, and Vy for Flaps UP AND DOWN. 4. In 5 years I have never got any water out of the top wing port, even after 5" in one night at Oshkosh this year. 5. The RV guys suggested going to the wire to activate the drain instead of the black tube. The reason is that the wire requires only a 1/8" dia hole in the bottom wing skin instead of a 3/8" dia hole. The wire is also lighter and does not stick out of the wing. 6. How to test an AOA system: The test procedure would be to approach a stall in 1 "g" flight and note that the stalling buffet occurred as the AOA indicated critical. Then roll into a 30 degree bank and approach a stall (accelerated stall). Both displays should show the critical angle at the higher pre stall buffet speed of 1.155 or 1/cos(bank) times the stalling speed in 1 "g" flight. The straight and level 1 "g" test demonstrates nothing other than you have a good IAS indicator. In 1 "g" flight and at a fixed GW and CG IAS is AOA. Rob Hickman Advanced Flight Systems ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2005
From: "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Stark Avionics
Marcus, I got all my avionics through Starks and was pleased to do business with him. In addition to coordinating my Appch Hub harnesses, I have had to talk with John on several occasions for minor gliches. Even though he's busy, he always found a way to respond to calls or E-mails. Mark C. (40016) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2005
From: Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Range of motion for ailerons - help needed
I am setting up a Trio Avionics autopilot and working on mounting the wing servo. I need to know the range of motion for the aileron and cannot find this info in the wing or fuselage manual. Are the numbers in the finish kit? If not, perhaps a flying RV-10 knows the range of travel in inches for the main pushrod from the wingroot to bellcrank. Alternatively, if I knew the angle of the aileron to the top surface of the wing when full "up" and lower wing surface when full "down" I could work it out from that. Also, does the finish kit list control surface acceptable weight range and CoG values? Thanks in advance, Eric #40150 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2005
From: gengrumpy(at)aol.com
Subject: RV-10 Pilot handook
Have any of the current -10 flyers put together a pilot operating handbook yet? Some of us coming up on first flight would certainly like to plagarize the work of others. Grumpy #40404 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Andair Fuel Valve Install Complete
For those who have been waiting for some photos of the Andair valve install with handle extension, you'll be very pleased. I now can confirm that this is an extremely good way to eliminiate many hassles with the original install of the fuel valve, like getting the rear heat to run past the valve and rudder cable, among others. The install, in my opinion, makes it easier, and safer. Here's where the write-up is: http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20051228/index.html I also have a lot of wiring and panel stuff done, and a write up of doing panel silkscreening and other panel related things that I posted today too: http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/20051228/index.html Sorry it took so long to get photos posted. I know a few of you really wanted them sooner, but I've got my head in my project these days. Enjoy! -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brinker" <brinker@cox-internet.com>
Subject: Re: AOA vs. Stall Warning
Date: Dec 29, 2005
Was wondering if anyone has any experience with the HCI AOA, at http://hciaviation.com/prod-aoa-a.shtml they claim to have stall horn and led indicator. Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darton Steve" <sfdarton(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RV10-List: AOA vs. Stall Warning > > This is a question for the flying 10s. > > Is anyone flying with just an AOA and no stall > warning? Is there any good reason to install the Stall > Warning system if AOA is installed? > > Thanks > Steve 40212 Wings (obviously) > > > __________________________________ > http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gommone7(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: rv10 bill of sale
Date: Dec 29, 2005
Hi, guys ,Hugo here . I have a questions to the second airplane builders,at what moment you recive a bill of sale,wich you Must have ,in order to register the airplane. my questions is, even if this is a very serius company ,and excelent customer support,you know ,anythings is possible,if something happen to them (stooddard Hamilton,glasair-glastar),we will finish with a lot of aluminum ,and may some divorce,if you can't convert the above mention aluminum in an asset. Do I am paranoioc? Thanks ,Hugo ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 2005
From: Mark <eyedocs1(at)swbell.net>
Subject: Monitor Burn-In
Funny story, as I stare at my office computer screen preparing an Excel spreadsheet, I can see a perfect outline of Larry Feldhousen's blue RV-10 that I have setup as my wallpaper and screensaver. Oh well, I can think of worse things! Wishing everyone SAFE & prosperous New Year! Regards, Mark DNA ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Static line question
Date: Dec 29, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
The lengths do not need to be the same length. Just connect them with a "T". Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Indran Chelvanayagam Subject: RV10-List: Static line question Guys, this may seem like a stupid question : There are two static ports on either side of the rear fuse. These need to be connected to a 'T' piece, then fed forward to the instrument panel. Do the two tubing arms of the 'T' need to be the same length? IE, does the length of tubing from each static port to the connector need to be the same length on both sides? Although the ports are meant to be 'balanced', I would think that the low pressures/flow involved would mean that differences in the tubing length are not significant. BTW - I'm using the Cleaveland tools static ports with tygon tubing (Mike Lauritsen - if you're reading this, I received the tubing etc yesterday after 3 weeks! - mail goes slowly around Christmas in Australia!) Indran Chelvanayagam ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Range of motion for ailerons - help needed
Date: Dec 29, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
The tube movement is much less than you expect. The Tru-Track set up comes with all of the linkage so there is no need to do anything except bolt it. I would wait till the wings are on to make a servo control rod. Then you will know what you are working with. No weighing of any control surface is necessary. That comes from Ken Kruger the chief engineer at Vans. Hope this helps. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Panning Subject: RV10-List: Range of motion for ailerons - help needed I am setting up a Trio Avionics autopilot and working on mounting the wing servo. I need to know the range of motion for the aileron and cannot find this info in the wing or fuselage manual. Are the numbers in the finish kit? If not, perhaps a flying RV-10 knows the range of travel in inches for the main pushrod from the wingroot to bellcrank. Alternatively, if I knew the angle of the aileron to the top surface of the wing when full "up" and lower wing surface when full "down" I could work it out from that. Also, does the finish kit list control surface acceptable weight range and CoG values? Thanks in advance, Eric #40150 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Range of motion for ailerons - help needed
Date: Dec 29, 2005
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Eric, are you close by me. You can come over to the hanger and get the measurements you need. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Panning Subject: RV10-List: Range of motion for ailerons - help needed I am setting up a Trio Avionics autopilot and working on mounting the wing servo. I need to know the range of motion for the aileron and cannot find this info in the wing or fuselage manual. Are the numbers in the finish kit? If not, perhaps a flying RV-10 knows the range of travel in inches for the main pushrod from the wingroot to bellcrank. Alternatively, if I knew the angle of the aileron to the top surface of the wing when full "up" and lower wing surface when full "down" I could work it out from that. Also, does the finish kit list control surface acceptable weight range and CoG values? Thanks in advance, Eric #40150 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)cox.net>
Subject: TruTrak VSGV
Date: Dec 29, 2005
For those of you who have the DigiFlight II VSG or the VSGV TruTrak advised me today that they now have the VSGV software completed to couple with the GRT EFIS. I will be sending in my VSGV for software upgrade (no cost since I purchased the VSGV model originally. VSG models can also be upgraded but at the price differently for the VSGV version. Russ Daves RV-10 #40044 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RAS" <deruiteraircraftservices(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: rv10 bill of sale
Date: Dec 30, 2005
yes, you are a bit paranoid, however, you receive your bill of sale as you go when buying kits in increments otherwise you get it all in one go. The standard commercial invoice is your bill of sale, you don't buy an aircraft but the bits to construct one. marcel ----- Original Message ----- From: <gommone7(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: RV10-List: rv10 bill of sale > > Hi, guys ,Hugo here . > I have a questions to the second airplane builders,at what moment you > recive a bill of sale,wich you Must have ,in order to register the > airplane. > my questions is, even if this is a very serius company ,and excelent > customer support,you know ,anythings is possible,if something happen to > them (stooddard Hamilton,glasair-glastar),we will finish with a lot of > aluminum ,and may some divorce,if you can't convert the above mention > aluminum in an asset. > Do I am paranoioc? > Thanks ,Hugo > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jay Rowe" <jfrjr(at)adelphia.net>
Subject:
Date: Dec 30, 2005
Anyone out there with information on hanger plans? I am part way thru the QB wings so I need to start thinking about hangers. I currently rent an unheated T at AUG for my 172 but there is cheap leaseable land available at WVL where you can build your own nicely heated hanger. But I need plans. Since I am a part time contractor (homes) I would prefer to stick build since I have no experience with metal. If anyone knows of a web site, or person, or company that could help me please let me know. Jay Rowe #40301 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 2005
From: Phil Hall <phil(at)asibuildings.com>
Subject: Re: : RV10-List:
Jay, I sell hangars for a living, Aircraft Structures, Inc. Give me a call at 928-636-1492 days, evenings or weekends. Phil #40122 > > Anyone out there with information on hanger plans? I am part way thru the QB > wings so I need to start thinking about hangers. I currently rent an > unheated T at AUG for my 172 but there is cheap leaseable land available at > WVL where you can build your own nicely heated hanger. But I need plans. > Since I am a part time contractor (homes) I would prefer to stick build since > I have no experience with metal. If anyone knows of a web site, or person, or > company that could help me please let me know. Jay Rowe #40301 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 2005
From: Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Alternate solvent for MEK
Awhile back there was a discussion on MEK and how Nitrile gloves don't offer much protection. I did a little searching and found an alternate solvent, Denatured Alcohol. It is ~ 99% Ethanol + some methanol so you don't drink it... Some of the advantages: 1. Available at the hardware store 2. Ethanol is Nitrile gloves compatible. (Methanol does penetrate in 32 min but much longer than MEK and Methanol concentration is low) 3. Does a great job of removing fuel sealant - as good as MEK 4. Lower vapor pressure so less solvent fumes 5. Also does a great job cleaning aluminum for paint prep. 6. Removes vinyl washprimer (could be a plus or a minus... :) ) I've switched to alcohol for all solvent prep. I also have built an activated carbon filter (attached to a bilge blower) that has been very effective with MEK or alcohol fumes) I will take some pictures and post if there is interest. Note, vinyl wash primer from Sherwin Williams has MEK in it. I suspect it is common to a number of the primer systems so it cannot be completely avoided. Eric Randy - I will take you up on your offer to see your RV-10. I sent you an email directly. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 2005
From: Mark Grieve <mark(at)macomb.com>
Subject: Re: : RV10-List:
Received-SPF: pass (mail.outfitters.com: 64.6.9.79 is whitelisted) receiver=mail.outfitters.com; client-ip=64.6.9.79; helo=[64.6.9.79]; envelope-from=mark@macomb.com; x-software=spfmilter 0.97 http://www.acme.com/software/spfmilter/ with libspf2-1.0.0; Jay, If you were in West central Illinois I could point you at two hangars that you might like. My father designed a simple 40x40 foot pole building with 10 foot high doors that roll straight out to the sides. I helped build the truss rafters and the hangars were erected by the farmers/pilots who owned the runways. Rigid Rib roofing was used on the outside and several fiberglass panels were incorporated into the roof to let some light in. The weak point was the low end National door hangers so I would suggest Cannonball. Sorry I don't have any plans. This was 30 years ago and nobody thought of that. I might be able to get you some pictures. Mark Jay Rowe wrote: > Anyone out there with information on hanger plans? I am part way thru > the QB wings so I need to start thinking about hangers. I currently > rent an unheated T at AUG for my 172 but there is cheap leaseable land > available at WVL where you can build your own nicely heated hanger. But > I need plans. Since I am a part time contractor (homes) I would prefer > to stick build since I have no experience with metal. If anyone knows of > a web site, or person, or company that could help me please let me > know. Jay Rowe #40301 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Carlton <jcarlton3(at)cox.net>
Subject: New builder
Date: Dec 30, 2005
Opened the crate on kit #525 this afternoon! Wow, what have I got myself into? Everything looks nice and neat, well packed and organized. Let's hope I can stay that way and get this baby done some day soon. Now let's see, what did I do with that inventory list.... Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 2005
From: Bowen Miles <cessna170bdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: A little more fuel for the primer fire (grin)
This was in our newsletter here at the Air Force Research Lab: http://www.afrl.af.mil/news/dec05/features/af_develops.pdf ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris , Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: QB question
Date: Dec 31, 2005
Hi guys I am doing the inventory on the QB and one of the components says spar carry through??? Isnt this the spar that is already on the QB fuse?? Seems strange to itemise this part? Chris Number 272 QB fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave & Brenda Emond" <d_emond(at)mweb.co.za>
Subject: Re: Lasar Ignition
Date: Dec 31, 2005
Has anyone in the group fitted LASAR ignition to their 10 yet. I am curious to find out possible locations to install the controller box??? Dave Emond # 40159 Still busy on Canopy Mattituck TMXIO 540 should ship mid Jan'06 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris , Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Molex crimper
Date: Dec 31, 2005
Hi all anyone know what crimper we use for the whelan strobes....I know its a molex but there seems to be many types Regards Chris 40388 fuse QB 272 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 2005
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: QB question
You are correct. It is already installed in the fuselage. I had the same question. When I spoke with Vans (along with other questions) there response was, "Its the big gold thing that runs through the fuselage." I am not sure why they have it as an itemized part. Larry Rosen <http://lrosen.nerv10.com> Chris , Susie McGough wrote: > Hi guys I am doing the inventory on the QB and one of the components > says spar carry through??? Isnt this the spar that is already on the > QB fuse?? Seems strange to itemise this part? > > Chris Number 272 QB fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 2005
Subject: Rear Spar Webs
From: Steven D Clark <stevendclark(at)juno.com>
My rear spar webs for my project apparently did not arrive when I bought my wing kit from another builder. I now need to get the pieces, but the shipping (by truck) to Indiana is very expensive. Is anyone aware of a wing or fuselage shipment (RV-10 or otherwise) that is coming to the central/southern In/southern IL/ western KY region that I could potentially piggyback with? I'm not in a big rush, but I'd like to get them sometime in the next 3 months . Thanks, Steve Clark (Leading Edges) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <millstees(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: Rear Spar Webs
Date: Dec 31, 2005
Steve: My RV-10 Slo-Build wing kit is scheduled to ship the week of January 2, to my home in Naperville, IL. I would be happy to accomodate you any way that works. You can email me at: millstees(at)ameritech.net. Steve Mills 40486 Finishing the empennage kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven D Clark" <stevendclark(at)juno.com> Subject: RV10-List: Rear Spar Webs > > My rear spar webs for my project apparently did not arrive when I bought > my wing kit from another builder. I now need to get the pieces, but the > shipping (by truck) to Indiana is very expensive. Is anyone aware of a > wing or fuselage shipment (RV-10 or otherwise) that is coming to the > central/southern In/southern IL/ western KY region that I could > potentially piggyback with? I'm not in a big rush, but I'd like to get > them sometime in the next 3 months . > Thanks, Steve Clark (Leading Edges) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Boone" <david555(at)cox.net>
Subject: Actual performance of flying RV 10s
Date: Dec 31, 2005
Any of you guys out there that are actually flying care to give us guys some real life performance and comments about your rv 10 flying experiences. Thanks David Boone #138 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: cradles
Date: Dec 31, 2005
Looking for simple schematic on constructing wing cradles and fuse stands for QB kit. If I send for the preview plans, does Van's provide an example? I got my letter today saying delivery of QB wings/fuse in April. When can I realistically expect it? Past experience from reading the list says they may come as early as two months from projected date. Rob Wright #392 Tailcone ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 2006
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: cradles
Here <http://lrosen.nerv10.com/tips.html> are the cradles that I put together for my wings. For the QB fuselage, I just set it on some 3/4" dense fome until I attached the tail cone. Now with the tailcone attached it sits on a dolly that runs under the wing spar and a support in the rear to hold the tail up. Larry Rosen Robert G. Wright wrote: > Looking for simple schematic on constructing wing cradles and fuse > stands for QB kit. > > If I send for the preview plans, does Vans provide an example? > > I got my letter today saying delivery of QB wings/fuse in April. When > can I realistically expect it? Past experience from reading the list > says they may come as early as two months from projected date. > > Rob Wright > > #392 Tailcone > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 2006
From: James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net>
Subject: Deluxe Fuel Caps - Tip for fitting
Hi all! I just finished fitting my Deluxe locking fuel caps from Van's into my tank, and have found an excellent way to shape it so the contour will fit more closely to the skin. As you may know, the deluxee cap flange has an excessive contour, that will result in a skin "burble" if installed as-is. What you need to do is take out the high spot and flatten it so it is closer to the standard cap's flange. The trick? Use a belt sander and sand the flange down until it is flat across the opening of the flange. Then, take a scotchbrite wheel to round the edge where the sanded part ends on each side. This still leaves a small bit of gap at the top and botton of the flange, but there is no visible skin deformation. I have attached a couple pictures to show it. P.S. Any tips on prosealing? I've already found AN470AD6 rivets to fit the tooling holes (fit perfectly!) -Jim 40384 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: New builder
Date: Jan 01, 2006
Happy New Year, Jim, and welcome to a group of great folks. There is an enormous amount of knowledge within this club of builders and lurkers. As you progress, drop a line or two letting everyone know how you're doing, and don't forget to visit everyone's web sites for great advice BEFORE you start a section. Might as well take advantage of those who've gone before. Also, remember, this is a journey. Take plenty of pictures and notes to have to share during the trip and when it's over. Most of all, have some fun! My best, John Jessen ~328 (finally back from buildus interruptus that began before Thanksgiving and working on the elevators and EmpCone simultaneously, just because) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Carlton Subject: RV10-List: New builder Opened the crate on kit #525 this afternoon! Wow, what have I got myself into? Everything looks nice and neat, well packed and organized. Let's hope I can stay that way and get this baby done some day soon. Now let's see, what did I do with that inventory list.... Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 2006
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Deluxe Fuel Caps - Tip for fitting
Jim had me add this tip to my tips area. While I was there, I remembered that there are also wing cradle ideas there. Here's the link. http://www.myrv10.com/tips/wingtips.html Thanks Jim! Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 James Hein wrote: > Hi all! > I just finished fitting my Deluxe locking fuel caps from Van's into > my tank, and have found an excellent way to shape it so the contour will > fit more closely to the skin. > > As you may know, the deluxee cap flange has an excessive contour, > that will result in a skin "burble" if installed as-is. What you need to > do is take out the high spot and flatten it so it is closer to the > standard cap's flange. > > The trick? Use a belt sander and sand the flange down until it is > flat across the opening of the flange. Then, take a scotchbrite wheel to > round the edge where the sanded part ends on each side. This still > leaves a small bit of gap at the top and botton of the flange, but there > is no visible skin deformation. > > I have attached a couple pictures to show it. > > P.S. Any tips on prosealing? I've already found AN470AD6 rivets to fit > the tooling holes (fit perfectly!) > > -Jim 40384 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dalton" <jdalton77(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Michigan Builders - can you show us your RV-10 Project?
Date: Jan 01, 2006
Hello to any Michigan builders, We're in Waterford (fly out of PTK) and would love to come by in the next week or two and see any RV-10 projects that are within flying/driving distance. If you've got an hour to show us your project, talk about your experience, and give us any advice you might have, please let me know. We'd be happy to lend a hand while we're talking! Thanks, Jeff Ordered Emp Kit on 12/30/05 "It is not the critic who counts: Not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again ... who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who at worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly." ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dalton" <jdalton77(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Rick Conti, are you on the list?
Date: Jan 01, 2006
Rick, I noticed on the RV-10 Map that you're in Arlington. I'll be there for work the week of Jan 22nd and would love to see your project. Any chance you've got an hour or two? Jeff Dalton "It is not the critic who counts: Not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again ... who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who at worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly." ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Lark" <jrlark(at)bmts.com>
Subject: shipping costs
Date: Jan 01, 2006
Hi all: I'm presently a wanna be builder. A few weeks ago there were several posts concerning shipping costs. Time issues aside, why haven't builders gone and picked up their kits at Van's themselves using either a trailer or some sort of a moving van? I live approximately 2600 miles from Vans (Southern Ontario). Fuel costs, U-Haul rental, 4-6 nights accommodation enroute, and a one way flight for 2 people from Detroit to Portland at present is approximately 2K US. About the only thing I haven't added in are crating costs. Am I missing something here, or are most people just too busy to go get it themselves? I do know that Vans probably would rather send each part of the kit separately, but..... this is my kit, so.... Comments welcomed as I don't want to waste my time if I have not though of everything. Besides all that, I would get a cross country tour of your great country. Sounds like a good deal to me........Rick C-GEKJ C177B ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Michigan Builders - can you show us your RV-10 Project?
Date: Jan 01, 2006
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
I am just South of MI, near Erie PA, I have the emp cone done, and wings are getting skinned, QB fuse on order. 4G1 is the local airport. I would be happy to talk with you about the project. Dan 40269 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Dalton Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 9:46 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Michigan Builders - can you show us your RV-10 Project? =09 =09 Hello to any Michigan builders, We're in Waterford (fly out of PTK) and would love to come by in the next week or two and see any RV-10 projects that are within flying/driving distance. If you've got an hour to show us your project, talk about your experience, and give us any advice you might have, please let me know. We'd be happy to lend a hand while we're talking! Thanks, Jeff Ordered Emp Kit on 12/30/05 "It is not the critic who counts: Not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again ... who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who at worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly." ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: shipping costs
Date: Jan 02, 2006
I picked up my wing and fuse kit at Vans and hauled it home on my pickup. Worked fine. The wing kit is 2 boxes: the spars are about 1 x 1 x 14 ft, and the skins are 1 x 3 x 8.5 ft. The fuse box is 4 x 5 x 8 ft. Vans provided help to load and total weight was about 900 lbs as I remember. The exact weights and dimensions are on Vans web site. My experience with the motor freight is such that there is no way you could do worse than they do. Albert Gardner RV-10 40-422 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DOUGPFLYRV(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 02, 2006
Subject: Re: shipping costs
Partain delivered my complete 10 QB in August. Even if it had not been cheaper it is definitely safer. Tony Partain is a RV builder/flyer and an outstanding individual. Someone along the way unloaded most of my finish kit, hopefully by mistake, and Tony is getting it worked out even at his expense to replace some components. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THIER SERVICES. Doug Preston #40372 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill" <n2faith2(at)cs.com>
Subject: Re: shipping costs
Date: Jan 02, 2006
I'll chime in with the same sentiments.....................Tony delivered my QB Wings/Fuse/Finishing Kit in Nov. Great experience. Stayed in touch with me all the way. Bill Stegemann 40423 ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Seaton To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:04 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: shipping costs I'll echo Doug here. Terrific service, fair pricing, and great folks at Partain Transport. Used them in mid-Dec 05 to deliver QB wings and fuse to Montrose, CO. Very satisfied. The fact that Tony's running 5 trucks tells you that a LOT of RV customers agree. He's built the proverbial better mousetrap. Isn't America great? Happy New Year to everyone. Gary Seaton From: DOUGPFLYRV(at)aol.com Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: shipping costs Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 10:34:52 EST Partain delivered my complete 10 QB in August. Even if it had not been cheaper it is definitely safer. Tony Partain is a RV builder/flyer and an outstanding individual. Someone along the way unloaded most of my finish kit, hopefully by mistake, and Tony is getting it worked out even at his expense to replace some components. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THIER SERVICES. Doug Preston #40372 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dalton" <jdalton77(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Fire Suppression?
Date: Jan 02, 2006
Anyone looking at fire suppression systems (other than a bottle under your seat)? "It is not the critic who counts: Not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again ... who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who at worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly." ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Edgerton" <weeav8ter(at)grandecom.net>
Subject: Cost to paint RV10
Date: Jan 02, 2006
Hello all, If any of you have had your RV10 painted or have gotten an estimate on painting it, could you please share what type of price you've had? Wayne Edgerton RV10 #40336 ________________________________________________________________________________ h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:x-accept-language: QRa/M4F/OwkxIk3g3LbyQ==
Date: Jan 02, 2006
From: Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: Cost to paint RV10
Wayne, I had asked for an estimate from Woodlake Refinishing and they mentioned about $6,000. Ed Godfrey Wayne Edgerton wrote: > Hello all, > > If any of you have had your RV10 painted or have gotten an estimate on > painting it, could you please share what type of price you've had? > > Wayne Edgerton RV10 #40336 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dalton" <jdalton77(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Cost to paint RV10
Date: Jan 02, 2006
Boy, that seems steep for a first paint job. My Cherokee was a little more and they spent most of their time stripping the old paint off. Of course, the RV will have nicer paint! ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Godfrey To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 6:28 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Cost to paint RV10 Wayne, I had asked for an estimate from Woodlake Refinishing and they mentioned about $6,000. Ed Godfrey Wayne Edgerton wrote: Hello all, If any of you have had your RV10 painted or have gotten an estimate on painting it, could you please share what type of price you've had? Wayne Edgerton RV10 #40336 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)cox.net>
Subject: Cost to paint RV10
Date: Jan 02, 2006
Paint is expensive. The paint itself cost me $2500 for my RV-8A (PPG Concept base coat - clear coat). Carl Froehlich RV-10 tail kit arrived last week -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Dalton Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:18 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Cost to paint RV10 Boy, that seems steep for a first paint job. My Cherokee was a little more and they spent most of their time stripping the old paint off. Of course, the RV will have nicer paint! ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Godfrey To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 6:28 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Cost to paint RV10 Wayne, I had asked for an estimate from Woodlake Refinishing and they mentioned about $6,000. Ed Godfrey Wayne Edgerton wrote: Hello all, If any of you have had your RV10 painted or have gotten an estimate on painting it, could you please share what type of price you've had? Wayne Edgerton RV10 #40336 ________________________________________________________________________________ spamd2.ruraltel.net * -4.0 RCVD_FROM_NEXTECH_5 Message came from 204.96.144-152.x network * 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message * -2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1%
From: "Bill and Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net>
Subject: Fuel tank senders
Date: Jan 02, 2006
I'll be starting the tanks on my -10 sometime in the near future and was wondering if there's a capacitance sender yet for the -10 tanks or if they still only have the float type. What are the advantages/disadvantages over both. Thanks Bill Britton ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fire Suppression?
Date: Jan 02, 2006
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Hey Jeff, I think your quote deserves the tagline of Theodore Roosevelt and can be found as part of the Special Ops credo. Consider http://www.eclipseaviation.com/about_eclipse/innovations/phostrex.html PhostrEX which is the environmentally friendly patented new product which replaces Halon. Lightweight and compact. John - $00.02 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Dalton Subject: RV10-List: Fire Suppression? Anyone looking at fire suppression systems (other than a bottle under your seat)? "It is not the critic who counts: Not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again ... who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who at worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly." ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dalton" <jdalton77(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Fire Suppression?
Date: Jan 02, 2006
yes, it is TR ----- Original Message ----- From: John W. Cox To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:18 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fire Suppression? Hey Jeff, I think your quote deserves the tagline of Theodore Roosevelt and can be found as part of the Special Ops credo. Consider http://www.eclipseaviation.com/about_eclipse/innovations/phostrex.html PhostrEX which is the environmentally friendly patented new product which replaces Halon. Lightweight and compact. John - $00.02 From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Dalton Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 11:16 AM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Fire Suppression? Anyone looking at fire suppression systems (other than a bottle under your seat)? "It is not the critic who counts: Not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again ... who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who at worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly." ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: F1013-L Longeron Tist
Date: Jan 03, 2006
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
G'day all, Happy New Year from Oz!! Have spent some time bending the fuse longerons. Plans have you mark fwd/aft twist marks and start/end bend marks on the F1013 left and right longerons. The plans only call for the right Longeron to be twisted. Is the left longeron twisted at the forward twist mark? thanks in advance Ron 40187 fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris , Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: F1013-L Longeron Tist
Date: Jan 03, 2006
Hey Ron where are you as I am building a 10 in Melb Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com> Subject: RV10-List: F1013-L Longeron Tist G'day all, Happy New Year from Oz!! Have spent some time bending the fuse longerons. Plans have you mark fwd/aft twist marks and start/end bend marks on the F1013 left and right longerons. The plans only call for the right Longeron to be twisted. Is the left longeron twisted at the forward twist mark? thanks in advance Ron 40187 fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sandra & Rick Lark" <jrlark(at)bmts.com>
Subject: shipping cost
Date: Jan 03, 2006
Folks, thanks for the advise re shipping costs. I will contact Partain Transport and see what the deal is concerning coming to Ontario. Now if I could just speed up finishing my house I'd be pounding rivets tomorrow............Rick ;-) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuel tank senders
Date: Jan 03, 2006
From: "Conti, Rick" <rick.conti(at)boeing.com>
I made my own capacitance plates. I copied the set from an RV-9. But just to be safe, I installed the floats as well. Thank You Rick Conti office: 703-414-6141 cell: 571-215-6134 ________________________________ From: Bill and Tami Britton [mailto:william(at)gbta.net] Subject: RV10-List: Fuel tank senders I'll be starting the tanks on my -10 sometime in the near future and was wondering if there's a capacitance sender yet for the -10 tanks or if they still only have the float type. What are the advantages/disadvantages over both. Thanks Bill Britton ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2006
From: sam.marlow(at)adelphia.net
Subject: Fuel tank senders
Can I install the capacitance plates on the QB tanks? Sam Marlow Fuse ---- "Conti wrote: > I made my own capacitance plates. I copied the set from an RV-9. But > just to be safe, I installed the floats as well. > > > > Thank You > Rick Conti > office: 703-414-6141 > cell: 571-215-6134 > > ________________________________ > > From: Bill and Tami Britton [mailto:william(at)gbta.net] > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:05 PM > To: RV10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Fuel tank senders > > > > I'll be starting the tanks on my -10 sometime in the near future and was > wondering if there's a capacitance sender yet for the -10 tanks or if > they still only have the float type. What are the > advantages/disadvantages over both. > > > > Thanks > > Bill Britton > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cost to paint RV10
Date: Jan 03, 2006
From: "Condon, Philip M." <pcondon(at)mitre.org>
Check with Vans. His shop painted the RV-10 with a paint that was less pricy then the popular brand paints. I believe the write up was in a back issue of the RV-ATOR. The paint material cost for the paint was less then half if I recall. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuel tank senders
Date: Jan 03, 2006
Skysports will make any custom length of capacitive probes. We used 8 inches bendable and 8 inches of measuring, bent in an 'S'. They were about $75 each, and they will make the output whatever you like, i.e. voltage, resistance, etc. Lots of information on their website: http://www.airstuff.com/fuelmon.html TDT 40025 ________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Conti, Rick Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel tank senders I made my own capacitance plates. I copied the set from an RV-9. But just to be safe, I installed the floats as well. Thank You Rick Conti office: 703-414-6141 cell: 571-215-6134 ________________________________ From: Bill and Tami Britton [mailto:william(at)gbta.net] Subject: RV10-List: Fuel tank senders I'll be starting the tanks on my -10 sometime in the near future and was wondering if there's a capacitance sender yet for the -10 tanks or if they still only have the float type. What are the advantages/disadvantages over both. Thanks Bill Britton ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2006
From: Nikolaos Napoli <owl40188(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: F1013-L Longeron Tist
Hi Ron, I just finished going through that step. I twisted both the left and right one as it seems to me that they should be identical at the fwd end. I am not 100% sure though. Niko ----- Original Message ---- From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com> Subject: RV10-List: F1013-L Longeron Tist G'day all, Happy New Year from Oz!! Have spent some time bending the fuse longerons. Plans have you mark fwd/aft twist marks and start/end bend marks on the F1013 left and right longerons. The plans only call for the right Longeron to be twisted. Is the left longeron twisted at the forward twist mark? thanks in advance Ron 40187 fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2006
From: Nikolaos Napoli <owl40188(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Fuse Mid Side Skin Bending - F1070R
I tried to bend the F1070R fuse skin yesterday. It didn't go too well. I ended up with a tear in the skin at the forward end of the bend line. I think my problem was that instead of making the bending block out of hardwood I used 2 by 6 construction lumber which is much weeker. As a result the edge of the bending block broke. Ordered new skin ($75) and a will be getting a piece of oak to make the new bending block. Has anyone had a similar experience? Any suggestions on this? Niko 40188 Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2006
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: IO-540 Power Charts
Try this: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/dlm34077@cox.net.04.07.2005/ Deems Davis # 406 Wings http://deemsrv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2006
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Fuse Mid Side Skin Bending - F1070R
I talked to Bob Condrey # OSH about this, If I recall correctly he had porblems initially, but came up with a great solution for bending these. I believe he posted it on the list, but i can't recall. Bob, you out there? Deems Davis # 406 Wings http://deemsrv10.com/ Nikolaos Napoli wrote: > I tried to bend the F1070R fuse skin yesterday. It didn't go too > well. I ended up with a tear in the skin at the forward end of the > bend line. I think my problem was that instead of making the bending > block out of hardwood I used 2 by 6 construction lumber which is much > weeker. As a result the edge of the bending block broke. Ordered new > skin ($75) and a will be getting a piece of oak to make the new > bending block. Has anyone had a similar experience? Any suggestions > on this? > > Niko > 40188 Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuse Mid Side Skin Bending - F1070R
Date: Jan 03, 2006
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Rolling the fuselage skins can be pretty tough (especially the front ones). Making the bending/rolling block out of a hardwood is imperative! Also, there are a couple other tips that Tim posted on his website at http://www.myrv10.com/tips/fusetips.html. Scroll down to the bottom for the skin rolling stuff. Bob #40105 Finish kit: Installing windows _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nikolaos Napoli Subject: RV10-List: Fuse Mid Side Skin Bending - F1070R I tried to bend the F1070R fuse skin yesterday. It didn't go too well. I ended up with a tear in the skin at the forward end of the bend line. I think my problem was that instead of making the bending block out of hardwood I used 2 by 6 construction lumber which is much weeker. As a result the edge of the bending block broke. Ordered new skin ($75) and a will be getting a piece of oak to make the new bending block. Has anyone had a similar experience? Any suggestions on this? Niko 40188 Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2006
From: "William" <wcurtis(at)core.com>
Subject: RE: Cost to paint RV10
> I happen to own a Paint and Interior Shop in Salisbury, NC (RUQ) and I > can tell you that to etch, alodine, water break test, high build prime > and paint with Jet Glo and a couple of stripes starts at 12k and/or if > you get fancy with Imron 6000 and clear with multiple colored stripes > add about 6 to 8K www.AircraftPaintingAndInteriors.com > Aircraftpainting(at)hotmail.com Wow, the price of painting a plane has certainly gone up in the last two years. My Cardinal (about the same size as the RV-10) painted almost two years ago in non-metallic (Courtaulds-now PPG Aerospace-PRC DeSoto Desothane HS 8000) colors was 2/3 your cost. Also, reading the Sherwin-Williams paint spec, they recommend Acry Glo for pistons and Jet Glo for, well, Jets. You guys use Jet Glo for pistons? Also, I thought most of the major shops stopped using Imron due to its toxicity and because you can get a near equal quality with the newer PPG and Sherwin-Williams paints. Reese Aviation (glowing reports in Aviation Consumer) here is the NY Metro area was charging about 8K for 4 place single paint job less than 2 years ago and they had to strip the old paint in addition to the etch, alodine, etc. With an RV, no paint stripping is required. So what are you guys offering that I'm missing? Just as a comparison, Glo Custom in Texas (http://glocustom.com) paints the smaller RVs for about $4K. Is an RV-10 3 time more plane? William Curtis - Fuselage http://nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2006
From: Eric Large <catalyticeric(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Michigan Builders - can you show us your RV-10 Project?
Jeff, I'm in building Holland, Tulip City (KBIV) or Park Township (KHLM) are about 6 miles away. I could pick you up on my way to the plane on weekends. It's a bit of a drive at around 160 miles. I'm working on the fuselage (trying to lay out wiring before closing out the floors) and still need to close out my wings. Eric Large (616) 395-9374 cell Jeff Dalton wrote: Hello to any Michigan builders, We're in Waterford (fly out of PTK) and would love to come by in the next week or two and see any RV-10 projects that are within flying/driving distance. If you've got an hour to show us your project, talk about your experience, and give us any advice you might have, please let me know. We'd be happy to lend a hand while we're talking! Thanks, Jeff Ordered Emp Kit on 12/30/05 "It is not the critic who counts: Not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again ... who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who at worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly." --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2006
From: James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net>
Subject: Fuel tank instructions, Tips, Hints
Anyone else notice that the fuel tank instructions must have been written by someone other than who wrote the previous sections? They seem to leave out important information, requiring some head-scratching at the dinner table. For example: What do you countersink on the tank attach bracket? What do you dimple on the skin? Should you countersink the skin on the attach bracket, or dimple it and countersink the bracket? This is what I have so far (Add it to the tip list.. if I'm correct that is) 1. Countersink ALL #40 holes on the tank attach bracket. 2. Do not countersink ANY #19 holes on the tank attach bracket. 3. Do not dimple the skin at the location of the fuel sump/drain flange (the flange is pre-countersunk) 4. Dimple the skin holes with a regular #40 dimple die 5. Dimple the stiffeners, ribs, and J-stiffener with a #40 tank dimple die (allows room for proseal between the dimples) Also, I have been advised to not Alodine the inside of the tank because the Alodine will come off with constant exposure to avgas. This is from someone who has built an RV-8 and has rebuilt a few production aircraft. -Jim 40384 Tanks almost ready for the joy of proseal! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: Cost to paint RV10
Date: Jan 03, 2006
From: "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com>
I will be painting mine this month and I have my quote from the guy who is painting mine. Total will be 6-8K Materials are $2500 - $3000 included in this quote. This is about what I expected. I talked to the Lancair guys at Oshkosh this year and I could not believe how many of them spent $15k - $20K. OUCH! But that included lots and lots of prep work. Scott Schmidt ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Subject: RV10-List: RE: Cost to paint RV10 > I happen to own a Paint and Interior Shop in Salisbury, NC (RUQ) and I > can tell you that to etch, alodine, water break test, high build prime > and paint with Jet Glo and a couple of stripes starts at 12k and/or if > you get fancy with Imron 6000 and clear with multiple colored stripes > add about 6 to 8K www.AircraftPaintingAndInteriors.com > Aircraftpainting(at)hotmail.com Wow, the price of painting a plane has certainly gone up in the last two years. My Cardinal (about the same size as the RV-10) painted almost two years ago in non-metallic (Courtaulds-now PPG Aerospace-PRC DeSoto Desothane HS 8000) colors was 2/3 your cost. Also, reading the Sherwin-Williams paint spec, they recommend Acry Glo for pistons and Jet Glo for, well, Jets. You guys use Jet Glo for pistons? Also, I thought most of the major shops stopped using Imron due to its toxicity and because you can get a near equal quality with the newer PPG and Sherwin-Williams paints. Reese Aviation (glowing reports in Aviation Consumer) here is the NY Metro area was charging about 8K for 4 place single paint job less than 2 years ago and they had to strip the old paint in addition to the etch, alodine, etc. With an RV, no paint stripping is required. So what are you guys offering that I'm missing? Just as a comparison, Glo Custom in Texas (http://glocustom.com) paints the smaller RVs for about $4K. Is an RV-10 3 time more plane? William Curtis - Fuselage http://nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: RE: Cost to paint RV10
Date: Jan 03, 2006
Scott Are you having yours done local? Rene' Felker 40322 N423CF Ogden Ut _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Cost to paint RV10 I will be painting mine this month and I have my quote from the guy who is painting mine. Total will be 6-8K Materials are $2500 - $3000 included in this quote. This is about what I expected. I talked to the Lancair guys at Oshkosh this year and I could not believe how many of them spent $15k - $20K. OUCH! But that included lots and lots of prep work. Scott Schmidt _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Subject: RV10-List: RE: Cost to paint RV10 > I happen to own a Paint and Interior Shop in Salisbury, NC (RUQ) and I > can tell you that to etch, alodine, water break test, high build prime > and paint with Jet Glo and a couple of stripes starts at 12k and/or if > you get fancy with Imron 6000 and clear with multiple colored stripes > add about 6 to 8K www.AircraftPaintingAndInteriors.com > Aircraftpainting(at)hotmail.com Wow, the price of painting a plane has certainly gone up in the last two years. My Cardinal (about the same size as the RV-10) painted almost two years ago in non-metallic (Courtaulds-now PPG Aerospace-PRC DeSoto Desothane HS 8000) colors was 2/3 your cost. Also, reading the Sherwin-Williams paint spec, they recommend Acry Glo for pistons and Jet Glo for, well, Jets. You guys use Jet Glo for pistons? Also, I thought most of the major shops stopped using Imron due to its toxicity and because you can get a near equal quality with the newer PPG and Sherwin-Williams paints. Reese Aviation (glowing reports in Aviation Consumer) here is the NY Metro area was charging about 8K for 4 place single paint job less than 2 years ago and they had to strip the old paint in addition to the etch, alodine, etc. With an RV, no paint stripping is required. So what are you guys offering that I'm missing? Just as a comparison, Glo Custom in Texas (http://glocustom.com) paints the smaller RVs for about $4K. Is an RV-10 3 time more plane? William Curtis - Fuselage http://nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Cost to paint RV10
Date: Jan 03, 2006
prep work for plastic airplanes can really add up when you are being charged $60+ per hour for sanding and filling. Also a lot depends on what the traffic will bear. When shopping for a place to paint my Glastar I visited one shop in AZ that was charging large amounts for paint work but after a short conversation it was apparent that most of their "clients" were airline pilots to whom price was no object. Also if you have ever dealt with the builder assist area you know that your hour is worth much more than the hour of the employee. I once work alongside a builder assist employee and accomplished 2-3 times as much in a day as the employee. Of course his work was perfect while mine was only almost perfect. But his work cost me $240 a day. ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Schmidt To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 4:44 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Cost to paint RV10 I will be painting mine this month and I have my quote from the guy who is painting mine. Total will be 6-8K Materials are $2500 - $3000 included in this quote. This is about what I expected. I talked to the Lancair guys at Oshkosh this year and I could not believe how many of them spent $15k - $20K. OUCH! But that included lots and lots of prep work. Scott Schmidt From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 3:56 PM To: RV10-List(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: RE: Cost to paint RV10 > I happen to own a Paint and Interior Shop in Salisbury, NC (RUQ) and I > can tell you that to etch, alodine, water break test, high build prime > and paint with Jet Glo and a couple of stripes starts at 12k and/or if > you get fancy with Imron 6000 and clear with multiple colored stripes > add about 6 to 8K www.AircraftPaintingAndInteriors.com > Aircraftpainting(at)hotmail.com Wow, the price of painting a plane has certainly gone up in the last two years. My Cardinal (about the same size as the RV-10) painted almost two years ago in non-metallic (Courtaulds-now PPG Aerospace-PRC DeSoto Desothane HS 8000) colors was 2/3 your cost. Also, reading the Sherwin-Williams paint spec, they recommend Acry Glo for pistons and Jet Glo for, well, Jets. You guys use Jet Glo for pistons? Also, I thought most of the major shops stopped using Imron due to its toxicity and because you can get a near equal quality with the newer PPG and Sherwin-Williams paints. Reese Aviation (glowing reports in Aviation Consumer) here is the NY Metro area was charging about 8K for 4 place single paint job less than 2 years ago and they had to strip the old paint in addition to the etch, alodine, etc. With an RV, no paint stripping is required. So what are you guys offering that I'm missing? Just as a comparison, Glo Custom in Texas (http://glocustom.com) paints the smaller RVs for about $4K. Is an RV-10 3 time more plane? William Curtis - Fuselage http://nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2006
From: "William" <wcurtis(at)core.com>
Subject: RE: Cost to paint RV10
>The paint shop (that was destroyed at SUA from hurricanes) charged 10k >and up to strip and paint a C-152. You get what you pay for. OK, I have to question the judgement of anyone who would pay $10,000 to paint an aircraft worth $20,000-$30,000. To me, stripping should always be included in an already painted aircraft paint job, so specifying "strip & paint" seems to imply that they are providing something "extra." I don't doubt that you can easily spend $10,000 painting a 152. I'm assuming metallic paint, elaborate striping , etc. I had a friend paint his previously polished 170 in metallic silver with red strip and it came to $17,000. The 170 at least is a classic. William Curtis http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Peck" <kenbpeck(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Lights on VS and When to buy options
Date: Jan 04, 2006
I'm sure there is an archive that answers my questions, so if someone will please point me to it, I'll go read through the archives.... Question #1: As an additional 'classy' touch, I thought I put a couple of small lights in the HS pointing up at the VS - you know, kind of like they do on commercial planes. Was thinking probably just a couple of leds. - anyone done this, thought about it, have reasons why I can't / shouldn't? Question #2: I'm close to finishing the HS, planning the -10 to do some minimal IFR in the plane, so night lighting, collision avoidance, and autopilot will be a necessity. Can anyone offer guidance about when in the process I need to decide to buy the additional components that don't come in the kit? Thanks, Ken -10 HS riveting Central FL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Peck" <kenbpeck(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Clecos anyone?
Date: Jan 04, 2006
Ditto - The used ones I got from Country Sidewalk seem to work about the same as the new ones which I bought from Avery as well ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Rosen" <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Clecos anyone? > > You can get used Cleco fasteners from Country Sidewalk. Look in their > tool shed. Use <http://www.countrysidewalk.com> or > <http://www.countrysidewalk.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=C&Category_Code=TSUTCL> > The clecos are $0.25 each. But watch out for the shipping charges. > > I got some from them and they work fine. I also have some new ones from > Avery. > > Larry > <http://lrosen.nerv10.com> > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Lights on VS and When to buy options
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Ken, No comment about your first question. In terms of timing for purchasing items, you can hold off on purchasing the actual lights, etc. until you're finishing up the plane. Running the wire will potentially make your life easier down the road. Some have run conduit through the wings but there is reasonable access to run it through the stock snap bushings after the wings are complete - it will take more time without conduit however. I installed my wing wiring before closing them up and just used the stock snap bushings. Running conduit below the baggage floor and/or behind the right side baggage wall is a necessity. These panels are riveted in place and you'll need to run wire for battery power, contactor control, strobes, strobe power supply, position lights, etc from the tailcone to the panel and/or wings. I'd also suggest a conduit in the tailcone from the bay where the battery is to the aft bay. You will have to install a mount for a heated pitot before closing up the wing. Also, it's much easier to install the AP roll servo while the bottom wing skin is off, but it can be done through the access panel (for TruTrak, can't speak for others). This is really a trade off between a 30 min job with the skin off and a couple hours (my guess) with scraped knuckles and cussing if the skin is already on. Here's a list of specific potential equipment with my thoughts: Strobes/position lights: these mount on the bottom of the rudder and in the wingtips - can be done anytime. Power supply is typically being mounted in the tailcone, same bay as the battery. Landing lights: Kit from Van's installs in the wingtips and can be done anytime. Other options (Duckworks) install in the outboard leading edge of a wing. It is my understanding that these can be installed after completion but is easier before. Antennas: typical mounting locations for navs are either in the wingtips (Archer - I have one in each wingtip) or on the bottom aft end of the tailcone. MB can also be in a wingtip (my installation) or on the bottom of the fuselage. Comms on the bottom of the fuselage (mine are below the rear seats). Transponder on the bottom of the fuselage (mine is in the aft end of the bay with the battery box). Only areas that are inaccessible after completion are below the rear seats and baggage floor. In retrospect I'd probably mount my comms just forward of the rear seats in the area below the tube that drives the flaps. AP servos (TruTrak): Roll servo mounts in the wing - very clean install. A stock bracket for the aileron bellcrank is replaced with one from TT that includes mounting holes for the servo. As stated earlier - can be done after wing closeout but is easier before. Pitch servo is attached to aft part of the battery tray assembly with a bracket supplied by Van's in the fuselage kit. It is possible to purchase the servos and defer the actual AP decision since most TT models use the same servos. This allows you to defer the majority of the expense (and specific model decision). Heated Pitot: You'll need a Gretz (or equivalent) mount. This needs to be put in before the bottom wing skin is attached. PSS Angle of Attack system: the pressure taps install in the leading edge of an outboard wing bay. Easily installed after wing completion. It is possible to purchase the system in two kits to get the pressure taps and tubing early and defer the majority of the expense (and specific model decision). I'd recommend this so that you can insure that the conduit/snap bushing hole size is sufficiently large for the tubing and various wires. Hope this helps! Bob #40105 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Peck Subject: RV10-List: Lights on VS and When to buy options I'm sure there is an archive that answers my questions, so if someone will please point me to it, I'll go read through the archives.... Question #1: As an additional 'classy' touch, I thought I put a couple of small lights in the HS pointing up at the VS - you know, kind of like they do on commercial planes. Was thinking probably just a couple of leds. - anyone done this, thought about it, have reasons why I can't / shouldn't? Question #2: I'm close to finishing the HS, planning the -10 to do some minimal IFR in the plane, so night lighting, collision avoidance, and autopilot will be a necessity. Can anyone offer guidance about when in the process I need to decide to buy the additional components that don't come in the kit? Thanks, Ken -10 HS riveting Central FL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net>
Subject: DuckWorks Landing Lights AND AOA
Ok, I have two DW HID landing light kits, one for each wing and I also have the AOA kit. Anyone else have this scenario where both the HID kit and the AOA are recommended in the outer most bay of the leading edge. It's seems I may have space problems between the HID mounting bracket and the AOA port location. Any suggestions from those out there that have the DW kits and the AOA? -Sean #40303 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: DuckWorks Landing Lights AND AOA
I dont' have the AOA, but have a question for you. Have you found that there will be interference, or are you just trying to find out ahead of time if there will be interference? The HID mounts pretty far forward in the wing. I don't know where the AOA mounts. It would seem like you'd have to be pretty unlucky though to have that same piece of space used by both, and not be able to get around it. Is that what you found though? Tim Sean Stephens wrote: > > Ok, I have two DW HID landing light kits, one for each wing and I also > have the AOA kit. > Anyone else have this scenario where both the HID kit and the AOA are > recommended in the outer most bay of the leading edge. It's seems I may > have space problems between the HID mounting bracket and the AOA port > location. > > Any suggestions from those out there that have the DW kits and the AOA? > > -Sean #40303 > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: DuckWorks Landing Lights AND AOA
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Nope, plenty of room. I have the HID and AoA ports in the same bay. <http://www.kitlog.com/users/display_log.php?usermsausen&project22&category940&log1017&row 3> Michael Sausen -10 #352 Fuselage -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens Subject: RV10-List: DuckWorks Landing Lights AND AOA Ok, I have two DW HID landing light kits, one for each wing and I also have the AOA kit. Anyone else have this scenario where both the HID kit and the AOA are recommended in the outer most bay of the leading edge. It's seems I may have space problems between the HID mounting bracket and the AOA port location. Any suggestions from those out there that have the DW kits and the AOA? -Sean #40303 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: DuckWorks Landing Lights AND AOA
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
ACS lists the AOA position for the '10 at 9" forward of the wing skin break at the spar in the middle of the bay (offset by 2" top and bottom). Funnily enough, I just completed my HID install (thanks tim) and panicked a bit when I thought of where the AOA goes. Unfortunately, I panicked while daydreaming about it at work and can't measure to find out til I get home. That last bay is getting crowded though... cj #40410 wings www.perfectlygoodairplane.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: DuckWorks Landing Lights AND AOA I dont' have the AOA, but have a question for you. Have you found that there will be interference, or are you just trying to find out ahead of time if there will be interference? The HID mounts pretty far forward in the wing. I don't know where the AOA mounts. It would seem like you'd have to be pretty unlucky though to have that same piece of space used by both, and not be able to get around it. Is that what you found though? Tim Sean Stephens wrote: > > Ok, I have two DW HID landing light kits, one for each wing and I also > have the AOA kit. > Anyone else have this scenario where both the HID kit and the AOA are > recommended in the outer most bay of the leading edge. It's seems I may > have space problems between the HID mounting bracket and the AOA port > location. > > Any suggestions from those out there that have the DW kits and the AOA? > > -Sean #40303 > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: DuckWorks Landing Lights AND AOA
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Wow, finally a toy you don't have! Here's the info from the AFS website showing the exact pressure tap locations for the AOA: http://www.advanced-control-systems.com/AOAsupport/aoasupport.htm Actual hole is very small but the pressure tap itself (inside of wing) is about 1.5" or so in diameter and 2-3 inches in length. They install with a couple of small screws through the skin. Also, in my earlier email I called it the PSS AOA System. Rob Hickman of Advanced Flight Systems actually bought the product line a while back and now it's officially the AFS AOA System. Sorry Rob... Bob #40105 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: DuckWorks Landing Lights AND AOA I dont' have the AOA, but have a question for you. Have you found that there will be interference, or are you just trying to find out ahead of time if there will be interference? The HID mounts pretty far forward in the wing. I don't know where the AOA mounts. It would seem like you'd have to be pretty unlucky though to have that same piece of space used by both, and not be able to get around it. Is that what you found though? Tim Sean Stephens wrote: > > Ok, I have two DW HID landing light kits, one for each wing and I also > have the AOA kit. > Anyone else have this scenario where both the HID kit and the AOA are > recommended in the outer most bay of the leading edge. It's seems I may > have space problems between the HID mounting bracket and the AOA port > location. > > Any suggestions from those out there that have the DW kits and the AOA? > > -Sean #40303 > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: DuckWorks Landing Lights AND AOA
Just looking for previous experience prior to cutting the HID hole. :) Tim Olson wrote: > > I dont' have the AOA, but have a question for you. Have you > found that there will be interference, or are you just > trying to find out ahead of time if there will be interference? > The HID mounts pretty far forward in the wing. I don't know > where the AOA mounts. It would seem like you'd have to be > pretty unlucky though to have that same piece of space > used by both, and not be able to get around it. Is that > what you found though? > > > Tim > > Sean Stephens wrote: >> >> Ok, I have two DW HID landing light kits, one for each wing and I >> also have the AOA kit. >> Anyone else have this scenario where both the HID kit and the AOA are >> recommended in the outer most bay of the leading edge. It's seems I >> may have space problems between the HID mounting bracket and the AOA >> port location. >> >> Any suggestions from those out there that have the DW kits and the AOA? >> >> -Sean #40303 >> >> >> >> >> > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: DuckWorks Landing Lights AND AOA
BTW: What type of sealant did you use to mate the ports to the skins? In the pic it looks like something clear. Thanks, -Sean RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > > Nope, plenty of room. I have the HID and AoA ports in the same bay. > > <http://www.kitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=msausen&project=22&category=940&log=1017&row= > 3> > > Michael Sausen > -10 #352 Fuselage > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:37 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: DuckWorks Landing Lights AND AOA > > > Ok, I have two DW HID landing light kits, one for each wing and I also > have the AOA kit. > > Anyone else have this scenario where both the HID kit and the AOA are > recommended in the outer most bay of the leading edge. It's seems I > may have space problems between the HID mounting bracket and the AOA > port location. > > Any suggestions from those out there that have the DW kits and the AOA? > > -Sean #40303 > > > ==================================== > RV10-List Email Forum - > more: > bsp; > ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > ==================================== > bsp; - List Contribution Web Site - > bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ==================================== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: Cost to paint RV10
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: "Condon, Philip M." <pcondon(at)mitre.org>
RV10-List: RE: Cost to paint RV10 Another concern for painting is a location that will allow painting. I painted a few airplanes in the very recent past and stealth-ing your way into spraying, prepping, priming, disassembling, drying parts, rag and solvent disposal (very big problem....), compressors, sprayers, lighting, heaters, electricity, neighbors (airport and home)...all the items that are required to paint a airplane come into play. All of these concerns can be overcome, I imagine it was the challenge of the issue that motivated me. Painted a RV-4 with Glasserit (Mercedes/BMW paint) considered to be one of the top paints ONLY because the mixing distributor was near where I work. The RV_6 I assisted in paint was painted with Sikkens (Audi, VW) because the buddy I was painting with could get his chemicals also on his way home from work. A little practice on anything metal was all that was required. I have the best looking, wheel borrow & trash cans in the neighborhood, well, until the trash man dinged them up. I must have prepped them correctly, there is no paint loss in spite of the dinging fro the trash man >The paint shop (that was destroyed at SUA from hurricanes) charged 10k >and up to strip and paint a C-152. You get what you pay for. OK, I have to question the judgement of anyone who would pay $10,000 to paint an aircraft worth $20,000-$30,000. To me, stripping should always be included in an already painted aircraft paint job, so specifying "strip & paint" seems to imply that they are providing something "extra." I don't doubt that you can easily spend $10,000 painting a 152. I'm assuming metallic paint, elaborate striping , etc. I had a friend paint his previously polished 170 in metallic silver with red strip and it came to $17,000. The 170 at least is a classic. William Curtis http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: DuckWorks Landing Lights AND AOA
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Ah yes, that would be the super high tech, space age glue called shoe goo also known as E6000. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens Subject: Re: RV10-List: DuckWorks Landing Lights AND AOA BTW: What type of sealant did you use to mate the ports to the skins? In the pic it looks like something clear. Thanks, -Sean RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > > Nope, plenty of room. I have the HID and AoA ports in the same bay. > ><http://www.kitlog.com/users/display_log.php?usermsausen&project22&c< BR>>ategory940&log1017&row > 3> > > Michael Sausen > -10 #352 Fuselage > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean > Stephens > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:37 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: DuckWorks Landing Lights AND AOA > > > Ok, I have two DW HID landing light kits, one for each wing and I also > have the AOA kit. > > Anyone else have this scenario where both the HID kit and the AOA are > recommended in the outer most bay of the leading edge. It's seems I > may have space problems between the HID mounting bracket and the AOA > port location. > > Any suggestions from those out there that have the DW kits and the AOA? > > -Sean #40303 > > > > RV10-List Email Forum - > more: > bsp; > ">http://www.matroni > cs.com/Navigator?RV10-List > > bsp; - List Contribution Web Site - > bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > ">http://www.matronics.com/ > contribution > > > > -- > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net>
Subject: Fuel tank instructions, Tips, Hints
Anyone else notice that the fuel tank instructions must have been written by someone other than who wrote the previous sections? They seem to leave out important information, requiring some head-scratching at the dinner table. For example: What do you countersink on the tank attach bracket? What do you dimple on the skin? Should you countersink the skin on the attach bracket, or dimple it and countersink the bracket? This is what I have so far (Add it to the tip list.. if I'm correct that is) 1. Countersink ALL #40 holes on the tank attach bracket. 2. Do not countersink ANY #19 holes on the tank attach bracket. 3. Do not dimple the skin at the location of the fuel sump/drain flange (the flange is pre-countersunk) 4. Dimple the skin holes with a regular #40 dimple die 5. Dimple the stiffeners, ribs, and J-stiffener with a #40 tank dimple die (allows room for proseal between the dimples) Also, I have been advised to not Alodine the inside of the tank because the Alodine will come off with constant exposure to avgas. This is from someone who has built an RV-8 and has rebuilt a few production aircraft. -Jim 40384 Tanks almost ready for the joy of proseal! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel tank instructions, Tips, Hints
James, You'll find the plans will start to get more vague as you progress, Not bad but the plans get less handholding than in the earlier sections. One tip I have is to look ahead and see where things are intended to go then you get a clearer picture of why you doing something that seems not "normal". Be prepared to make countersink vs. dimple decisions, stuff like that. Rick S. 40185 Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Actual performance of flying RV 10s
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
David, why don't you fly out to Portland and take a hour or so flight. Telling you that this is a great flying machine won't make nearly the impression that putting the stick in you hand will give you. You are spending 100,000 + dollars to build a plane what is 500.00 in air fair and hotel. The boost in production after you fly it will be worth it. This offer is open to all. Randy 40006 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Boone Subject: RV10-List: Actual performance of flying RV 10s Any of you guys out there that are actually flying care to give us guys some real life performance and comments about your rv 10 flying experiences. Thanks David Boone #138 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris" <toaster73(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Mount for pitot
Date: Jan 04, 2006
Could someone with a gretz mount be so kind as to post the screw hole locations on the gretz pitot mount. What size rectangle/square would it draw if the hole centers were used as the corners of the square. Thanks Chris Lucas #40072 wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cost to paint RV10 [Edited]
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Date: Jan 04, 2006
****This is an edited version of a previous post.**** I have been etching everything during dis assembly/ before riveting and then alodining by emersion technique. I am foregoing the internal priming and being very careful when riveting; I cover the parts of the bucking bars that will not be contacting the rivets with plumbers tape to keep the bucking bar from scratching up the internal structures which can and will remove the alodine finish. My question for the described paint technique with the inclusion of alodine is, obviously some filling and sanding will be done and some areas of raw metal will then be re-exposed. Is the primer, and filler okay with the alodine application again as some of the solution will get on some of these areas. The emersion technique bathed the metal in the solution and it picked up the solution well, but I notice the brush application of alodine does not seem to work very well as the solution simple roles off the metal, so is it really doing anything or is there another technique to use with the alodine to get the solution to sit longer on the raw metal? John Gonzalez 40409 -------------------- m2f -------------------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=584#584 -------------------- m2f -------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Mount for pitot
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
I have the non- chromed and there are nutplate holes in each corner, so I am assuming you mean the main screw holes The main plate is 1 and 7/8" by 3" and the mounting holes are centered in the above rectangle at 1 and 3/8" by 2and 1/2" Like a rectangle in a rectangle. If you need other measurements let me know Dan 40269 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Subject: RV10-List: Mount for pitot Could someone with a gretz mount be so kind as to post the screw hole locations on the gretz pitot mount. What size rectangle/square would it draw if the hole centers were used as the corners of the square. Thanks Chris Lucas #40072 wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: Sam Marlow <sam.marlow(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: AHARS
Just wondered where you guys are putting your AHARS unit, I'm planning on using the Grand Rapids EFIS 1. Every where I look it seams to be too close to wiring. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: large email attachments
Date: Jan 05, 2006
Guy can we use some common sense when posting files.....5 meg is ridiculous for us on dial up!!! Chris ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Peck" <kenbpeck(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Lights on VS and When to buy options
Date: Jan 05, 2006
Thanks both Don and Bob for your helpful replies. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Locks for the doors of the RV-10.
Date: Jan 05, 2006
From: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com>
Has anyone solved the problem on how to provide a keyed lock for both RV-10 doors? If you have and you have pictures, I would love to see them. Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 Both doors are now hinged to the airplane. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2006
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Locks for the doors of the RV-10.
Jesse Saint solved it by drilling a hole through the thumb button latch release, and sticking a small paddlock through. Other than that method, I don't see a very easy way. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Doerr, Ray R [NTK] wrote: > > Has anyone solved the problem on how to provide a keyed lock for > both RV-10 doors? If you have and you have pictures, I would love to > see them. > > > > > Thank You > Ray Doerr > 40250 > Both doors are now hinged to the airplane. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2006
From: Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: flap-aileron trailing edge alignment
My left wing flap trailing edge cord line is 1/8" longer than the aileron. I measured distances on both wings from trailing edge to rear spar and it seems that the left flap alignment issues start at or near the center hinge point. Of course the hole could be off center or the flap could be slightly warped. I can't see how this could happen as I didn't notice any alignment issues during riveting. Flap movement is seemingly normal. The outboard flap edge is aligned straight on with the aileron (with about 1/4" clearance)... I called Van's and of course they claimed that no one else has seen this problem (so it must be something I messed up, right?). The bottom skins have been riveted and I'm hoping I can move on. The 1/8" difference seems small and I'm hoping is cosmetic. Cheers, Jay Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2006
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: flap-aileron trailing edge alignment
Jay, I thought the same thing and figured out the flap was not fully retracted. See if the top skin or something else is causing the flap not to fully seat against the rear spar. It was only a very small amount to completely seat and then it was fine. Rick S. 40185 Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Dial up
Date: Jan 06, 2006
What we have to remember that this list is world wide not just the USA. From outback Australia to Zambia to who knows....some people have to use a So it does become a problem when we send 5 + meg pictures when they could be 200K. regards Chris ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Cost to paint RV10
Date: Jan 05, 2006
John, We're both afflicted with the same disease (s). Dentistry and building an RV-10. I feel your pain. ( no pun intended ) John Hasbrouck DDS #40264 Wings finished! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com>
Subject: Re: flap-aileron trailing edge alignment
Date: Jan 05, 2006
Jay, As an aside, my Piper Arrow was much the same way. Ailerons and flap trailing edges did not align with one side being farther off the the other. Asked an IA about it and got the usual "they're all that way" response. After comparing the -10 construction to the factory built Arrow I have confidence in the strenght of the -10 airframe.....john ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
Subject: Locks for the doors of the RV-10.
Date: Jan 05, 2006
A code padlock, to be exact, so you don't have to carry around another key. It isn't very high-tech, but it works. Nobody has stolen the plane yet. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org Fax: 815-377-3694 I am in Ecuador until May, 2006. If you have questions regarding I-TEC, please call the office at 352-465-4545. If you would like to talk to me, please call me at 352-505-1899. This number won't always be on, but it has voicemail that will get to me in Ecuador. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Locks for the doors of the RV-10. Jesse Saint solved it by drilling a hole through the thumb button latch release, and sticking a small paddlock through. Other than that method, I don't see a very easy way. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Doerr, Ray R [NTK] wrote: > > Has anyone solved the problem on how to provide a keyed lock for > both RV-10 doors? If you have and you have pictures, I would love to > see them. > > > > > Thank You > Ray Doerr > 40250 > Both doors are now hinged to the airplane. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Cost to paint RV10
Date: Jan 05, 2006
Sure, I'll make you a deal. hehe ( Now where'd I put that Chelton price list?) John Hasbrouck ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: Negative Battery Cable Connection
Date: Jan 05, 2006
Where is everyone connecting the negative battery cable on the -10? I thought about running it up to one of the bolts that bolt the front longeron to the rear longeron just aft of the baggage area. I was hoping to attach it to a longeron that runs to the firewall like in the Harmon Rocket, but there is not one that runs that far do to the door cut outs on each side. Thanks -Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GenGrumpy(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jan 05, 2006
Subject: Re: Negative Battery Cable Connection
I'm running #2 cable from battery to engine and will also connect ground at battery to frame behind baggage compartment. Suggested by my panel builder. Grumpy #40404 engine en route and waiting on panel ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Testement" <jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com>
Subject: Negative Battery Cable Connection
Date: Jan 05, 2006
I am also running #2 to the firewall and engine. John Testement jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com 40321 Working on QB fuse _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GenGrumpy(at)aol.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Negative Battery Cable Connection I'm running #2 cable from battery to engine and will also connect ground at battery to frame behind baggage compartment. Suggested by my panel builder. Grumpy #40404 engine en route and waiting on panel ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 2006
Subject: Re: flap-aileron trailing edge alignment
Per the Piper book, the Arrow uses the flaps to trim for roll. Been there, done that. Regards, Jim Ayers In a message dated 01/05/2006 3:03:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com writes: --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Hasbrouck" Jay, As an aside, my Piper Arrow was much the same way. Ailerons and flap trailing edges did not align with one side being farther off the the other. Asked an IA about it and got the usual "they're all that way" response. After comparing the -10 construction to the factory built Arrow I have confidence in the strenght of the -10 airframe.....john ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Serani" <sms(at)instakey.com>
Subject: Applying color to door rubber gaskets...
Date: Jan 06, 2006
first time matronics poster / zeroing in on firewall forward builder here... I am struggling with a means to apply color to that ugly gray molding wrapped all the way around the doors. Best thing I've tested thus far is using colored magic markers (a finish that doesn't crack or peal off - but seems a little stupid and is certainly not the easiest means if your interested in a finish that actually looks better than hand painted). Anybody found a means to apply color to that rubber? Scott Serani, Builder 40341 Denver, CO 80223 Email: sms(at)instakey.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Negative Battery Cable Connection
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
I also used the AeroElectric scheme: a #2 wire from the battery to a firewall mounted ground tab block and brass bolt, then heavy braid to the engine crankcase ground. Bob #40105 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kraus Subject: RV10-List: Negative Battery Cable Connection Where is everyone connecting the negative battery cable on the -10? I thought about running it up to one of the bolts that bolt the front longeron to the rear longeron just aft of the baggage area. I was hoping to attach it to a longeron that runs to the firewall like in the Harmon Rocket, but there is not one that runs that far do to the door cut outs on each side. Thanks -Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: Sam Marlow <sam.marlow(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Grand Rapids EFIS
Does anyone have experience with the Grand Rapids EFIS 1? Flown it, installed it, ect? Sam Marlow Instrument Panel RV10 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Negative Battery Cable Connection
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: "Conti, Rick" <rick.conti(at)boeing.com>
I decided not to use the airframe as a return. Since all parts are primed and the riveted "connection" is a painted surface to an unpainted surface, electrically, it's not a good connection. I bought the power board from Blue Mountain and both battery cables run forward to the board. Thank You Rick Conti office: 703-414-6141 cell: 571-215-6134 ________________________________ From: Mike Kraus [mailto:n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net] Subject: RV10-List: Negative Battery Cable Connection Where is everyone connecting the negative battery cable on the -10? I thought about running it up to one of the bolts that bolt the front longeron to the rear longeron just aft of the baggage area. I was hoping to attach it to a longeron that runs to the firewall like in the Harmon Rocket, but there is not one that runs that far do to the door cut outs on each side. Thanks -Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: Sam Marlow <sam.marlow(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Windows
I remember reading a post about someone thickening the glue for the windows, making it like peanut butter. Anybody recall what was used? Sam Marlow Fuse RV10 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cost to paint RV10
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Thanks for the kind words. I feel bad for forgetting our 'dialup' members. Wow, those were the days. Dual bonded ISDN. I was also intending to post to Tim, who has been great at keeping up the notes on his RV-10 University site. I am going to send Tim some pictures of poor alodine, primer, topcoat and long term damage to metal airplanes. We do Heavy Checks at Alaska Air Group every 5,000 flight hours which is a lifetime for an RV-10. Ask Tim about the airplane wiring information which he has not posted yet. It was even larger in detail. John - KUAO -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez Subject: RE: RV10-List: Cost to paint RV10 Thank you John for the very informative information. This is the kind of information I find comforting. This is what the home build community needs. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Beautiful Panels
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Has anyone looked closely at Gary Kremers panel on his RV-7, N715AB with dual Grand Rapids? John - KUAO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
Subject: Windows
Date: Jan 06, 2006
We used micro balloons or flocked cotton fiber, but we didn't use Van's recommended glue. We used something that a Lancair builder recommended. It is called FE6026 Parts A & B (part #02-00043). It seems to work really well and is much easier to deal with, from what I hear, than the stuff that Van's sells. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse(at)itecusa.org www.itecusa.org Fax: 815-377-3694 I am in Ecuador until May, 2006. If you have questions regarding I-TEC, please call the office at 352-465-4545. If you would like to talk to me, please call me at 352-505-1899. This number won't always be on, but it has voicemail that will get to me in Ecuador. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Marlow Subject: RV10-List: Windows I remember reading a post about someone thickening the glue for the windows, making it like peanut butter. Anybody recall what was used? Sam Marlow Fuse RV10 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Beautiful Panels
I found it here: <http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/first_flight/Kremers1_lg.jpg> Don't know if there are any better pictures out there. I did not attach the photo in respect for those with dial up. ;-) Larry Rosen <http://lrosen.nerv10.com> John W. Cox wrote: > Has anyone looked closely at Gary Kremers panel on his RV-7, N715AB > with dual Grand Rapids? > > > > John - KUAO > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Visit to Randy to measure control throws
Hi, Randy was nice enough to let me take some measurements off of his airplane last night. We had a great time discussing RV-10's and admiring his airplane. Great motivation for anyone to keep at it. Now if it only stops raining in Portland... I was primarily interested in aileron throws. We measured the left wing aileron angle relative to the top wing skin. Full up is 35 degrees and full down is -12.6 degrees. To complete this motion, the actuator rod transits ~ 2.2 inches. Upper travel should be limited by the hard stop on the mounting angle. Lower travel, when wings attached to fuselage, is limited by the mechanical stop on the opposite wing. However, another check is the bellcrank should never be "over center". I have an issue on my plane, my full up travel is limited not by the mechanical stop, but by a clearance issue with the actuator rod and the lower surface of the hole in the rear spar. This could be addressed by opening it up more, but I'm surprised that it is there in the first place as everything is match drilled and the doubler plate hole matches the factory opening in the spar. Has anyone else seen this issue? I did not notice on Randy's plane if the same clearance issue exists. There is no clearance issue on the outboard edge of the hole as the range of travel when installed is not enough to touch the edge. Also measured elevator and trim travel. Elevator: Full up 4.9 degrees above horizontal plane Full down 33.2 degrees below horizontal plane Trim tab (left): Full down: 22 degrees down relative to trailing edge of elevator Full up: 6.4 degrees above relative to " " " " Trim tab (right): Full down: 21 degress down " " " " " Full up: 27.1 degrees up " " " " " Note: Full up travel is very different for L vs R tab. Eric ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: "William" <wcurtis(at)core.com>
Subject: Re: Negative Battery Cable Connection
>#4 would probably be fine unless you spend a lot of time in the >frozen tundra. Might be pushing it then. I, as Tim did, will be >putting in #2 for that exact reason. It gets mighty cold in WI >from time to time. If I never left the warmer climates I wouldn't >bother. Dont understand this logic. Conductivity INCREASES as temperature decreases. If you are talking about battery performance with temperature, well thats something else and AFAIK not dependant on the cable attached. That being said however the Vans ES WH 10 Kit uses #2 positive cable and the airframe as ground per page OP37-12 of the electrical wiring harness instructions. William Curtis http://nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: Joe Bienkowski <joeb47(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Negative Battery Cable Connection
The situation is thus: The resistance of the cable, for any given size, does decrease with decreasing temperature. NOT a large decrease however. The ability of the battery to deliver full cranking current decreases with decreasing temperature. This is a BIG change. The requirement to crank the engine GREATLY increases with decreasing temperature. Therefore the larger wire size WILL help some. Best method to make a large improvement would be a larger battery or a gear drive starter motor. Joe Bienkowski, Bowling Green, OH William wrote: > >#4 would probably be fine unless you spend a lot of time in the > >frozen tundra. Might be pushing it then. I, as Tim did, will be > >putting in #2 for that exact reason. It gets mighty cold in WI > >from time to time. If I never left the warmer climates I wouldn't > >bother. > > Dont understand this logic. Conductivity INCREASES as temperature > decreases. If you are talking about battery performance with > temperature, well thats something else and AFAIK not dependant on the > cable attached. > > That being said however the Vans ES WH 10 Kit uses #2 positive cable > and the airframe as ground per page OP37-12 of the electrical wiring > harness instructions. > > William Curtis > http://nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Negative Battery Cable Connection
Date: Jan 06, 2006
I am using two Odyssey 680s individually or in parallel for starting through a #2 cable to the starter relay. together they can supply 680 amps each for the first five seconds and then about 300. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Bienkowski" <joeb47(at)verizon.net> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Negative Battery Cable Connection > > The situation is thus: > > The resistance of the cable, for any given size, does decrease > with decreasing temperature. NOT a large decrease however. > > The ability of the battery to deliver full cranking current > decreases with decreasing temperature. This is a BIG > change. > > The requirement to crank the engine GREATLY increases > with decreasing temperature. > > Therefore the larger wire size WILL help some. > > Best method to make a large improvement would be a > larger battery or a gear drive starter motor. > > Joe Bienkowski, Bowling Green, OH > > William wrote: > >> >#4 would probably be fine unless you spend a lot of time in the >> >frozen tundra. Might be pushing it then. I, as Tim did, will be >> >putting in #2 for that exact reason. It gets mighty cold in WI >> >from time to time. If I never left the warmer climates I wouldn't >> >bother. >> >> Dont understand this logic. Conductivity INCREASES as temperature >> decreases. If you are talking about battery performance with temperature, >> well thats something else and AFAIK not dependant on the cable attached. >> >> That being said however the Vans ES WH 10 Kit uses #2 positive cable and >> the airframe as ground per page OP37-12 of the electrical wiring harness >> instructions. >> >> William Curtis >> http://nerv10.com/ > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Grand Rapids EFIS
Date: Jan 06, 2006
Sam, have a Dual GRT system in my hand and like almost everything about the GRT system. Particularly the support. Try the yahoo group for more flying info. GRT_EFIS(at)yahoogroups.com Bill S 7a fuse/panel -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Marlow Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 9:25 AM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Grand Rapids EFIS Does anyone have experience with the Grand Rapids EFIS 1? Flown it, installed it, ect? Sam Marlow Instrument Panel RV10 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: David Schaefer <dwschaefer(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Grand Rapids EFIS
Sam .. I have several, drop me an email off line and we can discuss or drop by the web-site www.n142ds.com for picts and info. Regards, David Schaefer Rv6-A N142DS "Geek One" On 1/6/06, Bill Schlatterer wrote: > > Sam, have a Dual GRT system in my hand and like almost everything about > the GRT system. Particularly the support. Try the yahoo group for more > flying info. > > > GRT_EFIS(at)yahoogroups.com > > > Bill S > 7a fuse/panel > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]*On Behalf Of *Sam Marlow > *Sent:* Friday, January 06, 2006 9:25 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Grand Rapids EFIS > > Does anyone have experience with the Grand Rapids EFIS 1? Flown it, > installed it, ect? > Sam Marlow > Instrument Panel RV10 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: "William" <wcurtis(at)core.com>
Subject: Re: Negative Battery Cable Connection
>The requirement to crank the engine GREATLY increases >with decreasing temperature. > >Therefore the larger wire size WILL help some. How so, as it relates to temperature? The original premise was that it may be fine at regular temperature but not so in the cold. I only submit that if the performance is sub-par at a lower temperature it will also be sub-par at normal temperature. Thicker cable is indeed better-there is no debate there. I only suggest that nothing with regard to the cable has any dependency on the temperature. Certainly the lowered temperature has an effect on the battery performance however. William Curtis http://nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: Negative Battery Cable Connection
You are only looking at the cable and battery performance. The colder it is, the more force required to turn the engine(thicker oil, reduced clearances, as well as more friction in the starter itself). More amps needed to provide that torque, drastically more. If you look at the stalled rotor draw of the starter you get an idea of what the peak draw will be. Peak draw is what you are concerned with, not average draw. In warm weather peak draw will be much lower, hence lighter cable can carry the say 200 amps needed, where they might not carry the 350+amps drawn in a cold start at or below freezing. William wrote: > >The requirement to crank the engine GREATLY increases > >with decreasing temperature. > > > >Therefore the larger wire size WILL help some. > > How so, as it relates to temperature? > > The original premise was that it may be fine at regular temperature but > not so in the cold. I only submit that if the performance is sub-par at > a lower temperature it will also be sub-par at normal temperature. > Thicker cable is indeed better-there is no debate there. I only suggest > that nothing with regard to the cable has any dependency on the > temperature. Certainly the lowered temperature has an effect on the > battery performance however. > > William Curtis > http://nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris" <toaster73(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Visit to Randy to measure control throws
Date: Jan 06, 2006
Is the hole through your rear spar a "modified teardrop shape or a uniform rectangle with rounded corners. I seem to remember seeing both types in various website photos: Look at the bottom 2 pictures on the following page on Mike Howe's or Tims site: http://www.etigerrr.com/Wings/september_6_2004.htm and then this picture on William Curtis site http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/07Wings/wings36.html My cut outs are like Williams , maybe has something to do with it? Chris Lucas #40072 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Panning" <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RV10-List: Visit to Randy to measure control throws > > Hi, Randy was nice enough to let me take some > measurements off of his airplane last night. We had a > great time discussing RV-10's and admiring his > airplane. Great motivation for anyone to keep at it. > Now if it only stops raining in Portland... > > I was primarily interested in aileron throws. We > measured the left wing aileron angle relative to the > top wing skin. Full up is 35 degrees and full down is > -12.6 degrees. To complete this motion, the actuator > rod transits ~ 2.2 inches. > > Upper travel should be limited by the hard stop on the > mounting angle. Lower travel, when wings attached to > fuselage, is limited by the mechanical stop on the > opposite wing. However, another check is the bellcrank > should never be "over center". > > I have an issue on my plane, my full up travel is > limited not by the mechanical stop, but by a clearance > issue with the actuator rod and the lower surface of > the hole in the rear spar. This could be addressed by > opening it up more, but I'm surprised that it is there > in the first place as everything is match drilled and > the doubler plate hole matches the factory opening in > the spar. Has anyone else seen this issue? > > I did not notice on Randy's plane if the same > clearance issue exists. There is no clearance issue on > the outboard edge of the hole as the range of travel > when installed is not enough to touch the edge. > > Also measured elevator and trim travel. > > Elevator: Full up 4.9 degrees above horizontal plane > Full down 33.2 degrees below horizontal > plane > > Trim tab (left): > Full down: 22 degrees down relative to trailing edge > of elevator > Full up: 6.4 degrees above relative to " " " " > > Trim tab (right): > Full down: 21 degress down " " " " " > Full up: 27.1 degrees up " " " " " > > Note: Full up travel is very different for L vs R tab. > > Eric > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Jan 07, 2006
Subject: Re: Negative Battery Cable Connection
Anyone using the FATWIRE battery cable from Periheliondesigns.com? Suppose to be 45% lighter and more flexible? Twice tha cost though!!! Also, was looking to do an Odessey 925 with a small SLA motorcycle battery as a backup in case of ALT/BAT failure. Anyone done this.....if so what does your wiring diagram look like and where did you mount the backup battery?. I would want the backup battery on a separate circuit just to switch on in case alt or main battery failed..........would like it to be charged while flying too. Thanks, DEAN Anyone using the FATWIRE battery cable from Periheliondesigns.com? Suppose to be 45% lighter and more flexible?Twice tha cost though!!!Also, was looking to do an Odessey 925 with a small SLA motorcycle battery as a backup in case of ALT/BAT failure. Anyone done this.....if so what does your wiring diagram look like and where did you mount the backup battery?. I would want the backup battery on a separate circuit just to switch on in case alt or main battery failed..........would like it to be charged while flyingtoo. Thanks, DEAN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <dav1111(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Negative Battery Cable Connection
Date: Jan 07, 2006
I have installed the Pedriheliondesigns Fat Wire and although yet to start the engine I am real happy with the purchase and install. I installed as per Van's Wiring Harness design with a Concord Battery. The Fat Wire is really lite weight and everybody who has seen mine likes it. I also am using the Fat Wire connection lugs and like them as well. Russ Daves N710RV Reserved - Flying to OSH 2006 > > From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com> > Date: 2006/01/07 Sat AM 01:29:53 EST > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Negative Battery Cable Connection > > Anyone using the FATWIRE battery cable from Periheliondesigns.com? Suppose to be 45% lighter and more flexible? Twice tha cost though!!! Also, was looking to do an Odessey 925 with a small SLA motorcycle battery as a backup in case of ALT/BAT failure. Anyone done this.....if so what does your wiring diagram look like and where did you mount the backup battery?. I would want the backup battery on a separate circuit just to switch on in case alt or main battery failed..........would like it to be charged while flying too. > Thanks, > DEAN > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2006
From: "Joseph Czachorowski" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RV10 Parts
While building my RV10 tail kit, I came across several new ideas that many builders may be interested in. The first part that I wanted to "improve" was the trim tab cable weldment. I know the weldment included in the kit is OK, but I didn't like the "tack-weld" of the small nut. I had my nephew Dave (Rivethead-Aero.com) make me up a new part that replaces that weldment. It is made from 6061 aluminum billet and is set at the exact same angle as the steel weldment. It rivets on with 4 rivets as the other part. Dave said the aluminum part is three times stronger then Van's part. If you are interested in this part, let me know and I'll gask Dave to start pumping them out on his CNC. I can also email you a picture of it if interested. Also, if you are having problems cutting out the Horizontal Stab L brackets from the stock provided in the tail kit, again, Dave made me up 2 on the CNC. He cut the 9 holes on the one side and the 2 on the other. Needless to say, they lined up perfectly when mounted to the HS Stab spar. I have pictures to email interested. Zack zackrv8 at verizon.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Negative Battery Cable Connection
Date: Jan 07, 2006
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
I considered it but the wire, although lighter, is much larger diameter than standard. Space in my conduit is at a premium. Bob -------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Negative Battery Cable Connection Anyone using the FATWIRE battery cable from Periheliondesigns.com? Suppose to be 45% lighter and more flexible? Twice tha cost though!!! Also, was looking to do an Odessey 925 with a small SLA motorcycle battery as a backup in case of ALT/BAT failure. Anyone done this.....if so what does your wiring diagram look like and where did you mount the backup battery?. I would want the backup battery on a separate circuit just to switch on in case alt or main battery failed..........would like it to be charged while flying too. Thanks, DEAN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2006
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV10 Parts
Zack, based on recent discussion on this board, I believe there are many (myself included) that would be interested in the trim tab replacement part, can you post a pic? or a link to one. If you don't have acces to a web site, send me the pic and I'll put it up on mine with a link back to the group. Deems Davis # 406 Wings http://deemsrv10.com/ Joseph Czachorowski wrote: > * While building my RV10 tail kit, I came across several new ideas > that many builders may be interested in. The first part that I wanted > to "improve" was the trim tab cable weldment. I know the weldment > included in the kit is OK, but I didn't like the "tack-weld" of the > small nut. I had my nephew Dave (Rivethead-Aero.com) make me up a new > part that replaces that weldment. It is made from 6061 aluminum > billet and is set at the exact same angle as the steel weldment. It > rivets on with 4 rivets as the other part. Dave said the aluminum > part is three times stronger then Van's part.* > ** > * If you are interested in this part, let me know and I'll gask Dave > to start pumping them out on his CNC. I can also email you a picture > of it if interested. * > ** > * Also, if you are having problems cutting out the Horizontal Stab > L brackets from the stock provided in the tail kit, again, Dave made > me up 2 on the CNC. He cut the 9 holes on the one side and the 2 on > the other. Needless to say, they lined up perfectly when mounted to > the HS Stab spar. I have pictures to email interested.* > ** > *Zack* > *zackrv8 at verizon.net * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jay Rowe" <jfrjr(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Rudder fairing light bracket attachment
Date: Jan 07, 2006
Hey Group: Just now installing all the tail feather attachments and I can not fiqure out how to attach the nav. light/strobe to the rudder fairing. I have Van's System 6 package with the combined lites. The bracket has to be attached from the outside as it will not fit through the narrow passage from the inside. Does one just use small screws to attach it to the fiberglass, or bondo, or glue, or whatever. Help please. Jay Rowe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Byron Gillespie" <bgill1(at)charter.net>
Subject: Rudder fairing light bracket attachment
Date: Jan 07, 2006
Jay: I just used some female threaded tube cut to size and ran the screws snug. Then used fiberglass (W/filler) to build up the area inside thus securing the threaded tube. After letting it set up, just reverse out the screws and mount the light. Worked well for me. I am sure that there are other options as well. Byron #40253 Beginning the finishing kit -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Rowe Subject: RV10-List: Rudder fairing light bracket attachment Hey Group: Just now installing all the tail feather attachments and I can not fiqure out how to attach the nav. light/strobe to the rudder fairing. I have Van's System 6 package with the combined lites. The bracket has to be attached from the outside as it will not fit through the narrow passage from the inside. Does one just use small screws to attach it to the fiberglass, or bondo, or glue, or whatever. Help please. Jay Rowe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry(at)mc.net>
Subject: Re: Negative Battery Cable Connection
Date: Jan 07, 2006
Tim ... Your batt install is the best use of airframe space I've seen. I also like your strap hold-down idea. I'm using a nylon strap as well ... secured with velcro on top of batt plus velcro between the strap on the return fold. Question: What program did you use to to draw your wiring diagram? Did you down load the symbols from Aeroelectric? I just ordered TurboCAD from ebay V9.2 ... Thanks ... Jerry Grimmonpre' RV8A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV10 Parts
Date: Jan 07, 2006
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Zack - post the price and I'll bet your cousin with have two dozen orders in the first week. I am interested. John - KUAO ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Czachorowski Subject: RV10-List: RV10 Parts While building my RV10 tail kit, I came across several new ideas that many builders may be interested in. The first part that I wanted to "improve" was the trim tab cable weldment. I know the weldment included in the kit is OK, but I didn't like the "tack-weld" of the small nut. I had my nephew Dave (Rivethead-Aero.com) make me up a new part that replaces that weldment. It is made from 6061 aluminum billet and is set at the exact same angle as the steel weldment. It rivets on with 4 rivets as the other part. Dave said the aluminum part is three times stronger then Van's part. If you are interested in this part, let me know and I'll gask Dave to start pumping them out on his CNC. I can also email you a picture of it if interested. Also, if you are having problems cutting out the Horizontal Stab L brackets from the stock provided in the tail kit, again, Dave made me up 2 on the CNC. He cut the 9 holes on the one side and the 2 on the other. Needless to say, they lined up perfectly when mounted to the HS Stab spar. I have pictures to email interested. Zack zackrv8 at verizon.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2006
From: "Joseph Czachorowski" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RV10 Parts
Deems, Pics on the way to you to post. Dave will post it to his site when he gets caught up on the CNC stuff he has going. Btw, he is also working on a hydro-formed one piece Trim Tab Access panel that will replace the existing one. This Trim Tab Cover will have a "fairing" on it that is integral (one piece) with the Trim Tab Cover. He will have one ready in a couple of weeks. I'll post when it is finished. Zack ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2006
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV10 Parts
Here's a link to pics of the items that Zack references, They are SWEET! http://deemsrv10.com/album/CNC%20Parts/index.html Deems Davis # 406 Wings http://deemsrv10.com/ Joseph Czachorowski wrote: > *Deems,* > ** > * Pics on the way to you to post. Dave will post it to his site when > he gets caught up on the CNC stuff he has going.* > ** > ** > * Btw, he is also working on a hydro-formed one piece Trim Tab Access > panel that will replace the existing one. This Trim Tab Cover will > have a "fairing" on it that is integral (one piece) with the Trim Tab > Cover. He will have one ready in a couple of weeks. I'll post when > it is finished.* > ** > > *Zack* ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob" <bcondrey(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Negative Battery Cable Connection
Date: Jan 07, 2006
The real issue with increased wire size is decreased resistance. #4 copper wire has a resistance of .000249 ohms per foot, #2 has .000156 ohms per foot. These numbers are small, however with a high current draw (starter for example) it makes a huge difference. There's also internal battery resistance to take into account (.004 ohms is a typical value). Bottom line is that you WILL have voltage drop across the wire, how much is dependent on total resistance and current draw. When the temperature is really cold the battery has less capacity AND the engine is harder to turn. An excellent tutorial on the above is located at http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/wiresize.pdf Bob #40105 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2006
From: "Joseph Czachorowski" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RV10 Trim Tab Cable Anchor Brackets
Guys, Dave will sell the Trim Tab Cable Anchor Bracket (replacement for the WD-415 that is supplied with the kit) for $15 a piece. I have installed these brackets on my Rv10 kit. Dave is an engineer and told me that these brackets are 3 times stronger than the steel weldment that Vans supplies in the kit. It also has more threads to grab the trim tab cable. It has a wider "footprint" than Vans weldment yet it still clears the Trim Tab cover plate doubler with no problem. 4 holes are pre drilled. Very easy to install. Made of 6061 aluminum. If you want a set, please call Dave at 302-437-6087. He can answer all your questions. Zack #40512 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: New Oil Cooler Shutter from Van's
Date: Jan 07, 2006
From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com>
Useful? http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident1136692004-314-12&browsenew&productoil_shutter TDT 40025 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Edgerton" <weeav8ter(at)grandecom.net>
Subject: Re: Transition Training Plane - Builder of?
Date: Jan 08, 2006
Hello Michael, I know Alex a little bit and I've gone over to his house and visited with him when he was building his plane. The RV6 that he currently does his training in he also built. Based on my understanding, Alex is an Air Traffic Controller here in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. He lives on an Air Park south of Dallas and has a fantastic hangar where he built his 10. When I visited with Alex I was just beginning my 10 and he was very gracious in taking time to talk to me. Based on what I could see at the time I visited him he certainly looked like he knew what he was doing. Everyone that I talk to says that Alex is a real straight up guy and he's done a first class job on his plane. Alex is also a Tru Trak Dealer and he's friends with the people there, that's why the Tru Trak plane was in the picture of the 3 10's together. Tru Trak is in AK, which is just a short distance from DFW. I talked to him after the article and he said John Nys is also a good friend of his and they both wanted to be there to see his first flight. I will definitely be doing my transition training with Alex and I have no hesitations at all. For what ever that's worth. Wayne Edgerton #40336 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV10 Trim Tab Cable Anchor Brackets
Date: Jan 08, 2006
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Do the four holes match the original four holes or will we need new cover plates if already drilled? Michael Sausen -10 #352 Fuselage ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Czachorowski Subject: RV10-List: RV10 Trim Tab Cable Anchor Brackets Guys, Dave will sell the Trim Tab Cable Anchor Bracket (replacement for the WD-415 that is supplied with the kit) for $15 a piece. I have installed these brackets on my Rv10 kit. Dave is an engineer and told me that these brackets are 3 times stronger than the steel weldment that Vans supplies in the kit. It also has more threads to grab the trim tab cable. It has a wider "footprint" than Vans weldment yet it still clears the Trim Tab cover plate doubler with no problem. 4 holes are pre drilled. Very easy to install. Made of 6061 aluminum. If you want a set, please call Dave at 302-437-6087. He can answer all your questions. Zack #40512 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV10 Trim Tab Cable Anchor Brackets
Date: Jan 08, 2006
I just got 4 for my project and a neighbors. Nice work. Carl RV-10 # 40528 RV-8A (220 hrs). -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Joseph Czachorowski Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 9:59 PM To: RV10-List(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: RV10 Trim Tab Cable Anchor Brackets Guys, Dave will sell the Trim Tab Cable Anchor Bracket (replacement for the WD-415 that is supplied with the kit) for $15 a piece. I have installed these brackets on my Rv10 kit. Dave is an engineer and told me that these brackets are 3 times stronger than the steel weldment that Vans supplies in the kit. It also has more threads to grab the trim tab cable. It has a wider "footprint" than Vans weldment yet it still clears the Trim Tab cover plate doubler with no problem. 4 holes are pre drilled. Very easy to install. Made of 6061 aluminum. If you want a set, please call Dave at 302-437-6087. He can answer all your questions. Zack #40512 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wandering from the Matronics List
Date: Jan 08, 2006
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
I seldom wander far from this list but Tim's post on Transition Training had me reviewing some of the RVAF better posts. As it pertains to Weight and Balance, this $15 investment caught my eye as a slick piece of simple programming. Greg Hale's http://www.nwacaptain.com/. John - KUAO ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2006
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wandering from the Matronics List
I have an excel spreadsheet that I got from one of the members from this list. It works fine, has a chat showing the aft and forward CG and where the CG is this the configuration you put in. Inputs are as you would expect, Gal of fuel, pilots, rear Passengers, and baggage. Best of all it was free. During this early stage it is quite informative to put in different configurations to see how much the CG swings from forward to back based on flying single pilot vs. fully loaded. It added a lot of light into all the discussions on the 10 being nose heavy. I could email it to anyone that would like it. I did not create the spreadsheet and I would like to credit the originator, but I cannot remember who I got it from As always YMMV Larry Rosen <http://lrosen.nerv10.com> John W. Cox wrote: > I seldom wander far from this list but Tims post on Transition > Training had me reviewing some of the RVAF better posts. As it > pertains to Weight and Balance, this $15 investment caught my eye as a > slick piece of simple programming. Greg Hales http://www.nwacaptain.com/. > > John - KUAO > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wandering from the Matronics List
Date: Jan 08, 2006
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
One thing I want to mention is that Doug's site is most certainly a valuable resource for us RV types. While some of us disagreed enough with his moderation techniques over on the old Yahoo group enough to mutiny, and I personally still do feel he runs his site and groups more as a for profit business than the hobby that he claims that is to put his kids through college, he contributes tons back to the community and that can not be ignored. I encourage everyone to spend some time in his forums and on his site to get a well rounded experience when it comes to internet information. I gave him a very hard time back when we were all on that list because of my frustration with his direct editing of posts without even commenting that he edited them and his habit of completely removing posts that questioned his motives, and he still does it. But only a fool would ignore good sources of information out of spite for another, and I do very much appreciate the extra effort he puts in for the benefit of all of us. I think we have proven, at least in our list, that we are probably more professional and respectful than some of the other groups and moderation is something that we most certainly don't need. Having met several of us and talked directly with even more in private emails, I can say this is one of the best RV groups and is a standard by which I judge others. :-) Michael Sausen -10 #352 Fuselage ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox Subject: RV10-List: Wandering from the Matronics List I seldom wander far from this list but Tim's post on Transition Training had me reviewing some of the RVAF better posts. As it pertains to Weight and Balance, this $15 investment caught my eye as a slick piece of simple programming. Greg Hale's http://www.nwacaptain.com/. John - KUAO ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2006
From: Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Wandering from the Matronics List
Larry, I'm sure plenty of us would like to get our hands on that spreadsheet. I for one. I'd suggest emailing it to Tim or someone to post on their site. Otherwise you'll be emailing to a lot of people. :) -Sean #40303 Larry Rosen wrote: > > I have an excel spreadsheet that I got from one of the members from > this list. It works fine, has a chat showing the aft and forward CG > and where the CG is this the configuration you put in. Inputs are as > you would expect, Gal of fuel, pilots, rear Passengers, and baggage. > > Best of all it was free. During this early stage it is quite > informative to put in different configurations to see how much the CG > swings from forward to back based on flying single pilot vs. fully > loaded. It added a lot of light into all the discussions on the 10 > being nose heavy. > > I could email it to anyone that would like it. > I did not create the spreadsheet and I would like to credit the > originator, but I cannot remember who I got it from > As always YMMV > > Larry Rosen > <http://lrosen.nerv10.com> > > John W. Cox wrote: > >> I seldom wander far from this list but Tims post on Transition >> Training had me reviewing some of the RVAF better posts. As it >> pertains to Weight and Balance, this $15 investment caught my eye as >> a slick piece of simple programming. Greg Hales >> http://www.nwacaptain.com/. >> >> John - KUAO >> > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2006
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wandering from the Matronics List
I posted it on my web site in the tips section, here <http://lrosen.nerv10.com/tips.html> Let me know if there are any problems getting the file. Larry Rosen <http://lrosen.nerv10.com> Sean Stephens wrote: > > Larry, > > I'm sure plenty of us would like to get our hands on that > spreadsheet. I for one. I'd suggest emailing it to Tim or someone to > post on their site. Otherwise you'll be emailing to a lot of people. :) > > -Sean #40303 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2006
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Interior Lighting
I am closing up the fuselage floors (hoping I have left enough access for electrical runs) and I started thinking about interior lighting. To light the baggage area is anyone installing lighting in either the rear baggage door close out panel or in the rear seat bulkhead? How about map lights for the rear passengers in the bulkhead? What are some sources for interior lights? Larry Rosen <http://lrosen.nerv10.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2006
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
List)
Subject: Re: Weight and Balance (was Wandering from the Matronics
List) Well, I searched through my archives and credit for the weight and balance spreadsheet goes to Tim Dawson-Townsend RV-10 Builder #40025. Tim Olson had posted on his web site at <http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/TDT/Weight_&_Balance.zip> or <http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/TDT/Weight_&_Balance.xls> or now it is on my site at <http://lrosen.nerv10.com/tips.html> It is in a thread titled V speeds for an RV-10 back in November 2005 Larry Rosen > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Weight and Balance (was Wandering from the Matronics List)
Date: Jan 08, 2006
From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com>
No applause, please, just send cash! : ) TDT 40025 Finish kit/motor -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Larry Rosen Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weight and Balance (was Wandering from the Matronics List) Well, I searched through my archives and credit for the weight and balance spreadsheet goes to Tim Dawson-Townsend RV-10 Builder #40025. Tim Olson had posted on his web site at <http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/TDT/Weight_&_Balance.zip> or <http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/TDT/Weight_&_Balance.xls> or now it is on my site at <http://lrosen.nerv10.com/tips.html> It is in a thread titled V speeds for an RV-10 back in November 2005 Larry Rosen > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Interior Lighting
Date: Jan 08, 2006
From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com>
eBay or automotive supply houses have a variety of LED-type lights these days. That's probably your best bet - low current and long life . . . TDT 40025 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Larry Rosen Subject: RV10-List: Interior Lighting I am closing up the fuselage floors (hoping I have left enough access for electrical runs) and I started thinking about interior lighting. To light the baggage area is anyone installing lighting in either the rear baggage door close out panel or in the rear seat bulkhead? How about map lights for the rear passengers in the bulkhead? What are some sources for interior lights? Larry Rosen <http://lrosen.nerv10.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Suggestion on the needed tool.
Date: Jan 08, 2006
Hello all, I am trying to finish up dimpling all my elevator parts and have two problem areas. The last three holes in the elevator tip rib flange at the trailing edge are so close to the opposite flange there is no room to get in there. Are these three holes best to countersink even know the rib skin is thin? Lastly, the rear elevator spar is so narrow that again my pnuematic dimpler present a problem as the only way to get the male die to get into its hole is to carefully get the male dimple to start to move, then line it up and then go for it. Maybe I could do this with one hole but not the 200 or so, this is suicide. I do not own a hand squezer/rivetter. Any suggestions short of purchasing the manual dimpler? THANKS, John G. #40409 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Suggestion on the needed tool.
Date: Jan 08, 2006
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Avery has Vice grip dimplers for tight areas. There is also a pop rivet dimple tool, that you can use without the nail, and squeeze them with a pair of pliers -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez Subject: RV10-List: Suggestion on the needed tool. Hello all, I am trying to finish up dimpling all my elevator parts and have two problem areas. The last three holes in the elevator tip rib flange at the trailing edge are so close to the opposite flange there is no room to get in there. Are these three holes best to countersink even know the rib skin is thin? Lastly, the rear elevator spar is so narrow that again my pnuematic dimpler present a problem as the only way to get the male die to get into its hole is to carefully get the male dimple to start to move, then line it up and then go for it. Maybe I could do this with one hole but not the 200 or so, this is suicide. I do not own a hand squezer/rivetter. Any suggestions short of purchasing the manual dimpler? THANKS, John G. #40409 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Suggestion on the needed tool.
Date: Jan 09, 2006
For the ellevator use a pop rivet dimpler which you will use in several other places and no hand squeezer???? Borrow one! Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> Subject: RV10-List: Suggestion on the needed tool. > > Hello all, > > I am trying to finish up dimpling all my elevator parts and have two > problem areas. The last three holes in the elevator tip rib flange at the > trailing edge are so close to the opposite flange there is no room to get > in there. Are these three holes best to countersink even know the rib > skin is thin? > > Lastly, the rear elevator spar is so narrow that again my pnuematic > dimpler present a problem as the only way to get the male die to get into > its hole is to carefully get the male dimple to start to move, then line > it up and then go for it. Maybe I could do this with one hole but not the > 200 or so, this is suicide. I do not own a hand squezer/rivetter. Any > suggestions short of purchasing the manual dimpler? > > THANKS, > > John G. #40409 > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2006
From: Shawn Moon <moons1999(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Suggestion on the needed tool.
John, I just finished those dimples myself. For the rear spar I did exactly what you indicated below and went VERY slow with it. Didn't miss on any of the holes. For the last holes in that rib I went to Home Depot and picked up a 1" C clamp. I plan on using my close-quarters dies with the C clamp instead of the pop rivet gun. I haven't done it yet, but I figure it will work out pretty well. Another option is the vice-grip dimplers that Avery has or the tight fit dimpling tool from Cleaveland. I just didn't want to wait for another tool to ship, which is why I didn't go with either of these solutions. --Shawn 40366 John Gonzalez wrote: Hello all, I am trying to finish up dimpling all my elevator parts and have two problem areas. The last three holes in the elevator tip rib flange at the trailing edge are so close to the opposite flange there is no room to get in there. Are these three holes best to countersink even know the rib skin is thin? Lastly, the rear elevator spar is so narrow that again my pnuematic dimpler present a problem as the only way to get the male die to get into its hole is to carefully get the male dimple to start to move, then line it up and then go for it. Maybe I could do this with one hole but not the 200 or so, this is suicide. I do not own a hand squezer/rivetter. Any suggestions short of purchasing the manual dimpler? THANKS, John G. #40409 --------------------------------- Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: RV10 Parts
Date: Jan 08, 2006
These custom made parts are absolutely beautiful and no doubt much stronger. The question that comes to mind is how strong do they need to be and if by making them too strong are they putting too much stress on a different area. These custom parts having a larger footprint is definetly a good idea. Not being a mechanical engineer nor have I spent much time understanding the full system of this trim cable and its load bearing points or it resting points, but I wonder how strong the attatchment needs to be. My one concern at this time about the Van's supplied parts is not the weld strength but the size of the plate and its location in relation to the large cable cut out in the plate that it is attatched to. Notice also that the rivet holes holding the steel plate are almost in line with the cable cut out. I wonder whether a crack might form in the aluminum anchor plate at the cable cut out and go toward one of the rivet holes. If one was to use this Van's part one might do one of two things to make it better. Use Proseal when rivetting the steel plate down and or bond(NO RIVETS) another doubler sheet across the plate between the steel plate and the cable cut out, make this doubler much wider than the existing 1" steel plate. It looks like there is a least 1/2". Just a dentist thinking out load. JOhn G. 40409 >From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV10 Parts >Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 13:51:49 -0700 > > >Here's a link to pics of the items that Zack references, They are SWEET! > >http://deemsrv10.com/album/CNC%20Parts/index.html > >Deems Davis # 406 >Wings >http://deemsrv10.com/ > >Joseph Czachorowski wrote: > >>*Deems,* >>** * Pics on the way to you to post. Dave will post it to his site when >>he gets caught up on the CNC stuff he has going.* >>** ** * Btw, he is also working on a hydro-formed one piece Trim Tab >>Access panel that will replace the existing one. This Trim Tab Cover will >>have a "fairing" on it that is integral (one piece) with the Trim Tab >>Cover. He will have one ready in a couple of weeks. I'll post when it is >>finished.* >>** *Zack* > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2006
From: Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Visit to Randy to measure control throws
Chris, Thanks for the links. Mine are like Mike Howe's and (like him) I traced the rounded off retangle into the doubler. Did your comes as teardrop from the factory? Looking at the photo's you can see the tear drop is bigger than the retangle. It is the the same shape and size I need to allow the aileron free travel to the stop. I think people should check their rear spar and verify that they have sufficient clearance. Don't rely on sound as it makes a "clunk" as if it hit the stop (when it's actually hitting the control rod). I subsequently spoke with Randy and he opened up his rectangle to more tear dropped for clearance as well. I wish I knew about this issue before I riveted the spar together but I'm glad that I know about it prior to flying. My numbers are you need about 1/4 inch additional clearance on the lower portion. If you are still working on the wing kit you can check this ahead of time by assembling the powder coated parts of the aileron control system. You need only get out the bellcrank, one aileron mount, cut the rod to length and drill for the threaded ends. You can you slide a rivet in to hold the ends on. What is it like on the quickbuild wings? Thanks, Eric --- Chris wrote: > > > Is the hole through your rear spar a "modified > teardrop shape or a uniform > rectangle with rounded corners. I seem to remember > seeing both types in > various website photos: > Look at the bottom 2 pictures on the following page > on Mike Howe's or Tims > site: > http://www.etigerrr.com/Wings/september_6_2004.htm > and then this picture on William Curtis site > http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/07Wings/wings36.html > > My cut outs are like Williams , maybe has something > to do with it? > > Chris Lucas > #40072 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric Panning" <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com> > To: > Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 1:46 PM > Subject: RV10-List: Visit to Randy to measure > control throws > > > > > > > Hi, Randy was nice enough to let me take some > > measurements off of his airplane last night. We > had a > > great time discussing RV-10's and admiring his > > airplane. Great motivation for anyone to keep at > it. > > Now if it only stops raining in Portland... > > > > I was primarily interested in aileron throws. We > > measured the left wing aileron angle relative to > the > > top wing skin. Full up is 35 degrees and full down > is > > -12.6 degrees. To complete this motion, the > actuator > > rod transits ~ 2.2 inches. > > > > Upper travel should be limited by the hard stop on > the > > mounting angle. Lower travel, when wings attached > to > > fuselage, is limited by the mechanical stop on the > > opposite wing. However, another check is the > bellcrank > > should never be "over center". > > > > I have an issue on my plane, my full up travel is > > limited not by the mechanical stop, but by a > clearance > > issue with the actuator rod and the lower surface > of > > the hole in the rear spar. This could be addressed > by > > opening it up more, but I'm surprised that it is > there > > in the first place as everything is match drilled > and > > the doubler plate hole matches the factory opening > in > > the spar. Has anyone else seen this issue? > > > > I did not notice on Randy's plane if the same > > clearance issue exists. There is no clearance > issue on > > the outboard edge of the hole as the range of > travel > > when installed is not enough to touch the edge. > > > > Also measured elevator and trim travel. > > > > Elevator: Full up 4.9 degrees above horizontal > plane > > Full down 33.2 degrees below horizontal > > plane > > > > Trim tab (left): > > Full down: 22 degrees down relative to trailing > edge > > of elevator > > Full up: 6.4 degrees above relative to " " " " > > > > Trim tab (right): > > Full down: 21 degress down " " " " " > > Full up: 27.1 degrees up " " " " " > > > > Note: Full up travel is very different for L vs R > tab. > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse

December 16, 2005 - January 09, 2006

RV10-Archive.digest.vol-aw