RV10-Archive.digest.vol-bc
April 11, 2006 - April 29, 2006
>> 11 & 12 early is that it will speed up final assembly. In my garage I
> would
>> not be able to put the tail feathers on a fuselage with the engine. Just
>> not enough space.
>>
>> Sorry not a definitive answer, but some things to think about.
>>
>> Larry
>>
>> Eric_Kallio wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> For those of you who have allready moved on past the emmpenage kit and
>> maybe even flying or close to it, what is your experience on sections 11
> and
>> 12. I am getting ready to rivet the tailcone in the upcoming weeks. Does
> it
>> make sense to complete the next 2 sections fully and then take it apart
> and
>> keep it dis-assembled for a while, or are those sections that should wait
>> until perhaps the finishing kit when I am assuming all the controls are
>> rigged to the cyclic (forgive that term it is the helicopter pilot in me
>> coming out)? Just trying to stay ahead of the game here. Thanks.
>>> Eric
>>> 40518 Tailcone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=27444#27444
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conti, Rick" <rick.conti(at)boeing.com> |
Cc: "Gray, Larry E"
Does anyone know the name of the wind screen rain repellant product?
Thank You
Rick Conti
Senior Engineering Manager
The Boeing Company
office: 703 - 414 - 6141
blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | SnF Sound absorbing material vendor |
I visited the booth of SoundEx products...the fellow there offered a demo of
a loud speaker in an Igloo box closed and open showing his material absorbed
sound...how that noise relates to an airplane engine I don't know...but anyway
I took a sample home.
I placed it in a dish with water and the foam really loaded up pretty
quickly, plus it held the water pretty well while I hung it up...seems the cells
are
pretty available to water and sound absorption...I think I'd be a little
concerned using this material in an aircraft...plus looking at it, it looks like
something I could cobble together for a whole lot less than he was charging.
The aluminium material bubble cells peeled off of the white celled material
when it became wet. Don't know if the piece I receive, while a very small
sample, was a good sample of the work or whether the cells glue was not applied
on
this small sample. But holding a lot of water would concern me more than
noise.
Patrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com> |
| Subject: | sections 11 and 12 |
For what it's worth, last night I took a look at all the steps through
Sections 11 & 12, while having the usual sophisticated after deburring
cocktail (Bud), and I found nothing that would indicate that you needed to
do either section after Section 10. You could hang those puppies up and
forget about them.
Having said that, I feel that I will proceed with at least 11. You have
momentum and familiarity at that point. There will be issues to tackle, and
at this point you aren't in the throws of "get it done ittus" which might
make the process all that much more difficult at a later stage. If you
don't have the room, then don't do this until you move to the airport. But
if you do, you might think about it. You can always take it apart after you
verify that it all fits and works.
Such musings are worth what you paid for them, of course.
John Jessen
~328 (really getting excited and pumped up for step #4, page #15, section
10! )
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 5:49 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: sections 11 and 12
Rob's comments triggered a memory. Another builder tipped me off to
doublecheck my clearance on the bolt holding a rod end for the trim cable.
We both had minimal clearance, and if you tweaked the rotating arm just
right, you could snag the bolt on the trim bracket slot's edge as it rotated
through. I had to file a little extra out of the slot to give it good
clearance. Everyone doublecheck that you don't have that issue or you could
end up with stuck trim.
It's easy to see if you just use a small battery to have the trim actuate
fully in both directions, and it doesn't require the trim bracket assembly
to be mounted to the tailcone.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Robert G. Wright wrote:
> -->
>
> I've just completed this part, as much as I'm going to do for a while on
it.
> I went all the way up until where it starts you fitting gap seal and
> the emp fairing, which I don't even have yet.
>
> I also completed the trim mechanism/assembly, and am glad I did. It
> took me a while to get the adjustments correct for full travel on the
> servo. I noticed the motor would slow down and bind itself to a stop
> on one extreme, yet at the other extreme it would shut itself off very
> smartly. My advice on that is to once again take the initial
> measurements as a starting point only, then adjust to get full range
> of travel both on the servo as well as on the trim tabs.
>
> My heartache with this though is having to remove the trim cables and
> assembly - it sure was hard to get in there! Oh well, I've already
> got some small gauge wire wrapped around the ends to pull back through
later.
>
> Rob #392
> Working on QB shipment -- it's at Vans!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 7:54 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: sections 11 and 12
>
>
> I don't see any problem with doing it either way. There's nothing
> really in section 11&12 that's too awful dependent on the rest of the
> build. I did mine after the fact, and others did it in order. I
> don't think there's a problem doing it and disassembling them either,
> John...it just doesn't matter much at all. I, like you and others,
> don't have room to have an assembled empennage sitting around, which
> is why I did it that way. One other thing...
> even if you assemble it all, it'll be a heck of a lot easier to join
> the tailcone to the fuselage later if you don't have all those tail
> feathers attached. That doesn't mean you can't complete them, just
> something to think about. I guess I'd just do whatever feels best,
> and if you choose to push on to the wings, but have a hold-up of some
> sort, you can always touch on those
> sections while you wait. One item that may be worth finishing off
> in order is just to assemble the trim mechanism though...just so you
> have fewer parts laying around to lose.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
>
>
> John Jessen wrote:
>>
>> I appreciate the advice from Larry and Randy, but being at that same
> stage,
>> and even having the room, I do not see what the rationale is to take
>> my pieces off the walls and expose them to hanger rash if I don't have
to.
>> What is the "have to" rationale behind doing those two steps at this
>> time, other than Larry's good point about getting them done. I'd
>> rather, I
> think,
>> move on to the wings and have the empennage pieces safely out of the way.
>> Is it okay to assemble them, then take them apart and store them, or
>> is
> this
>> not a good thing to do?
>>
>> John Jessen
>> ~328 (Tailcone being disassembled soon for final deburrrrrrrring)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
>> Rosen
>> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 5:03 PM
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: sections 11 and 12
>>
>>
>> Since I was waiting on my QB wings and Fuselage I did most of
>> sections
>> 11 & 12, and then took it apart for storage. Ideally you would
>> complete
> the
>> sections and keep them together, and for those working in a hanger
>> they
> can
>> do that. It will not work in my garage. Another advantage of doing
>> most
> of
>> 11 & 12 early is that it will speed up final assembly. In my garage
>> I
> would
>> not be able to put the tail feathers on a fuselage with the engine.
>> Just not enough space.
>>
>> Sorry not a definitive answer, but some things to think about.
>>
>> Larry
>>
>> Eric_Kallio wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> For those of you who have allready moved on past the emmpenage kit
>>> and
>> maybe even flying or close to it, what is your experience on sections
>> 11
> and
>> 12. I am getting ready to rivet the tailcone in the upcoming weeks.
>> Does
> it
>> make sense to complete the next 2 sections fully and then take it
>> apart
> and
>> keep it dis-assembled for a while, or are those sections that should
>> wait until perhaps the finishing kit when I am assuming all the
>> controls are rigged to the cyclic (forgive that term it is the
>> helicopter pilot in me coming out)? Just trying to stay ahead of the game
here. Thanks.
>>> Eric
>>> 40518 Tailcone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=27444#27444
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Sponcil" <bsponcil(at)belinblank.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun-N-Fun my comments |
Larry,
Did you happen to see the new bluemountain geneation 4 EFIS? If you did,
I'd be interested in your impressions. It looks pretty nice on their
brochure (but then what product doesn't). I doubt I'll have the cabbage to
go with double Cheltons so I'm going to have to decide between GRT, BMA and
AFS.
-Brian
#40497
N211BD
Iowa City, IA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Rosen" <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 4:45 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Sun-N-Fun my comments
>
>
> Advanced Flight Systems new EFIS & Engine monitoring graphics are
> outstanding. Grand Rapids better watch out. Currently the AFS system
> does not have all the functionality as the GRT system, but with the better
> screen it has the potential to blow away the GRT and challenge the Chelton
> systems. But, this will be too late for me.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cal Hoffman" <cehoffman(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Oil Cooler Installation |
BlankMy plans call for riveting the oil cooler duct assembly to the firewall.
Is there a different set of plans for this installation??
Cal Hoffman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Hertner" <effectus(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun-N-Fun my comments |
Listers,
It seems to me that it wouldn't be all that difficult to incorporate one of
Van's NACA scoups onto the tail fairing rather than the one they showed in
the pictures. That thing looks like it would create a lot of drag.
Dave Hertner
#40164
Emp Done.
Bal of Kit Arrives June 1
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:44 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Sun-N-Fun my comments
>
> Hey all -
>
> Is there a way to get air into the overhead panel without putting an
> inlet on the intersection fairing? Does that inlet on the fairing seem
> like a bummer to anyone else? I really like the look of the overhead
> panel though. What is the difference between the 3 flavors? Anyone?
>
> cj
> #40410
> wings
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sun-N-Fun my comments |
| From: | "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> |
Tim -
I couldn't find it on your site - do you have air vents? Where? Can you
weigh in on the potential importance and/or coolness (pun) of overhead
fresh air?
cj
#40410
wings
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Hertner
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Sun-N-Fun my comments
Listers,
It seems to me that it wouldn't be all that difficult to incorporate one
of
Van's NACA scoups onto the tail fairing rather than the one they showed
in
the pictures. That thing looks like it would create a lot of drag.
Dave Hertner
#40164
Emp Done.
Bal of Kit Arrives June 1
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:44 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Sun-N-Fun my comments
>
> Hey all -
>
> Is there a way to get air into the overhead panel without putting an
> inlet on the intersection fairing? Does that inlet on the fairing
seem
> like a bummer to anyone else? I really like the look of the overhead
> panel though. What is the difference between the 3 flavors? Anyone?
>
> cj
> #40410
> wings
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sun-N-Fun my comments |
| From: | "Bobby J. Hughes" <bhughes(at)qnsi.net> |
The Lancair ES uses a similar method to provide air to the cabin. Comes
in the tail and uses an overhead duct for distribution. It also have a
water collection point inside the tail area with a drain tube. Some of
the ES folks have installed a fan in the tubing to help with ground
cooling. I think the fan is actually a bilge pump of some sort.
Bobby
40116
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Hertner
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Sun-N-Fun my comments
Listers,
It seems to me that it wouldn't be all that difficult to incorporate one
of Van's NACA scoups onto the tail fairing rather than the one they
showed in the pictures. That thing looks like it would create a lot of
drag.
Dave Hertner
#40164
Emp Done.
Bal of Kit Arrives June 1
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:44 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Sun-N-Fun my comments
>
> Hey all -
>
> Is there a way to get air into the overhead panel without putting an
> inlet on the intersection fairing? Does that inlet on the fairing
seem
> like a bummer to anyone else? I really like the look of the overhead
> panel though. What is the difference between the 3 flavors? Anyone?
>
> cj
> #40410
> wings
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pcasson(at)sasktel.net |
I'd also like to see a short version. No need for front vents, but room for
GPS & XM radio antennas, DVD, and lights for the back.
For those flying are the current rear vents inadequate?
Wiring....
Perry Casson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sun-N-Fun my comments |
| From: | "Robin Marks" <robin(at)mrmoisture.com> |
My 1953 D35 Bonanza has an adjustable scoop that sits on the top
centerline of the plane and controlled by a cable. It also has a section
inside the cabin to place a wet sponge so that when the ram air passes
over the wet sponge you get a swamp cooler style air conditioner. Works
great! The added bonus is that in cool temps you just close the scoop
and retain the original aerodynamics. I think the image of the scoop
will probably look keen when complete but I sure don't want that hanging
out all the time.
Robin
RV-6A 300 Hours
RV-10 QB On Order
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Step 4 page 10-15 |
John;
Just took my tailcone apart today. I've been dreading taking it all
back apart. Now comes the part where we get the cogsdill deburring
tools to do their part. I am pumped at seeing a large section getting
done. I saw where one of the web sites the person spent 7 hrs priming
parts. Will have to get the big spray gun out.
Fred Williams
40515
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Byron Gillespie" <bgill1(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Door latch covering |
I am in the process of covering my door interior surfaces with material.
Does any one have any good photos that you could post or forward of how
best to cover the latch mechanism area. I have looked through several
builder sites and couldn't find a photo that showed good detail. Also
couldn't dig up anything in the archives.
My goal is a cover that could be removed for fairly easy access to the
mechanism but would make the door panel look clean with out seeing the
latching gears.
Any suggestions appreciated.
Thanks,
Byron #40253 finishing kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Twenty Nine Palms |
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
I am heading to Twenty Nine Palms Ca. this Friday. Is there anyone who
has used that airport? Any thing I should know about it. Thanks,
Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LarryRosen(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Sun-N-Fun my comments |
I did not bother looking at the bluemountain stuff. IMHO it is to experimental
for my taste. Also, I am already committed to the Cheltons.
GRT has almost everything you could want, but their graphics just stink.
ASF has the graphics and the potential if you are willing to wait.
Just think all the choices we will have when we build our next airplane. :-)
Larry
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Brian Sponcil" <bsponcil(at)belinblank.org>
>
> Larry,
>
> Did you happen to see the new bluemountain geneation 4 EFIS? If you did,
> I'd be interested in your impressions. It looks pretty nice on their
> brochure (but then what product doesn't). I doubt I'll have the cabbage to
> go with double Cheltons so I'm going to have to decide between GRT, BMA and
> AFS.
>
>
> -Brian
>
> #40497
> N211BD
> Iowa City, IA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Rosen" <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 4:45 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Sun-N-Fun my comments
>
>
> >
> >
> > Advanced Flight Systems new EFIS & Engine monitoring graphics are
> > outstanding. Grand Rapids better watch out. Currently the AFS system
> > does not have all the functionality as the GRT system, but with the better
> > screen it has the potential to blow away the GRT and challenge the Chelton
> > systems. But, this will be too late for me.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Twenty Nine Palms |
Nothing special about the airport itself, I took my multiegine training
nearby @ salton sea (below sea level) and we used it for some IFR
approaches. Depending upon your route takes you pass through the Banning
Pass, just north of Palm Springs, you can expect some bumps,
particularly if late in the day or if there is any wind (very common).
if you come down through the Calif inland valleys and come on the
backside of mtns you will avoid that and most of the Trafic associated
with the LAX and Ontario/Riverside approaches.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
Randy DeBauw wrote:
> I am heading to Twenty Nine Palms Ca. this Friday. Is there anyone who
> has used that airport? Any thing I should know about it. Thanks, Randy
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Twenty Nine Palms |
I flew out of there a gozillion years ago while I was stationed at the Marine Corps
base..
Look out for the wind - it can whip up and sandblast an airplane in a nanosecond.....the
scenery from the air is great though!
Ralph Capen
Master Gunnery Sergeant US Marine Corps Retired!
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy DeBauw
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:05 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Twenty Nine Palms
I am heading to Twenty Nine Palms Ca. this Friday. Is there anyone who has used
that airport? Any thing I should know about it. Thanks, Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hilger" <ninepapa(at)bendbroadband.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Twenty Nine Palms |
Check the wind, it can be nasty.
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy DeBauw
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 4:05 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Twenty Nine Palms
I am heading to Twenty Nine Palms Ca. this Friday. Is there anyone who has used
that airport? Any thing I should know about it. Thanks, Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "sean garrison" <sean(at)hangerg.com> |
Hello everyone,
I was looking for a bit of advice in planning. I am looking at purchasing an
RV10 QBkit next month. I am starting to do some financial planning for this
purchase and I was wondering realistically what I can figure on spending to
complete this project. This will be my first aircraft project and I am
looking for some direction. Any thoughts or insights would be greatly
appreciated.
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
As you might expect there's a wide variation based upon options that you
have available to you and the decisions you make relative to those options.
Some rules of thumb:
1/3 cost = kit
1/3 cost = engine & prop
1/3 cost = panel
The cost of the kit itself is pretty well established, however Van does
increaase his prices at the beginning of every year. There are options
available for the airframe, (lighting, fuel valve, cowls,plenum,
interior panels/ducts/lights that all add cost.
Engine, a WIDE variation from used Lycomings (teens $K) to new Lycomings
($40k+) and then Alternative (mostly auto conversions) and then there
are options that will add to this (electronic ingition, balancing, cold
air induction,oil coolers, & more)
Props - again options used to new 2 blade vs 3 blade, metal vs
composite, cost range (4-5kused - $15k)
Panel - How much money have you got? basic VFR could be done relatively
inexpensively, particularly if you scrounge for used instruments, new
glass IFR upwards of$40-50k +
Tools - you'll buy more along the way.
Then add 10-15% for stuff you didn't think about.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
sean garrison wrote:
>
>Hello everyone,
>
>I was looking for a bit of advice in planning. I am looking at purchasing an
>RV10 QBkit next month. I am starting to do some financial planning for this
>purchase and I was wondering realistically what I can figure on spending to
>complete this project. This will be my first aircraft project and I am
>looking for some direction. Any thoughts or insights would be greatly
>appreciated.
>
>Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net> |
QB, I started out with planning around $100K, have gone up to 125K, and now
am back down to about 110K. But this includes upgrading a lot of my
original panel choices and going with a cheaper (rebuilt/overhaul) option on
the engine and prop, so the price changes equalize. If I were going all new
I'd probably be up to around $150K (estimated) right now.
Rob #392
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of sean garrison
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 8:10 PM
Subject: RV10-List: planning
Hello everyone,
I was looking for a bit of advice in planning. I am looking at purchasing an
RV10 QBkit next month. I am starting to do some financial planning for this
purchase and I was wondering realistically what I can figure on spending to
complete this project. This will be my first aircraft project and I am
looking for some direction. Any thoughts or insights would be greatly
appreciated.
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap hing bracket bearings |
Rob,
They are or at least they look like bronze. You should have 6 of them somewhere
with your kit. They look like little bronze donuts. I used sandpaper on a drill
bit and lapped the hinge bracket just a little. I used a C-Clamp and two pieces
of wood to press them into the bracket, once the one dise was fluch I used
a socket on one side to allow the bushing to get to it's final position, they
are wider than the hinge bracket and center on the hole with equal reveal on
each side.
Rick S.
40185
Fuse/Finish
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rain Repellant |
Just beware that Pledge has a high amount of alcohol in it plus a good slug
of water...it could cause your plexiglass to soften or haze...I know the Pledge
trick has been used by a lot of owners but it may not be the best way to
clean or keep the windscreen clean...sort of an old wives tale cure...you might
contact SC Johnson--they have a phone number on each can--and ask them for their
advise on using using Pledge on Plexiglass/planes to see if they've tested it
long term.
Patrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Schroeder, Bob (Parts Clerk)" <BSchroeder(at)uta.cog.ut.us> |
Motorcycle stores and aircraft suppliers have spray plexi cleaners and
polish that are readily available for your windscreens. Also, mcguires
makes similar products available at auto body supply store and auto
parts stores.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 5:53 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rain Repellant
Just beware that Pledge has a high amount of alcohol in it plus a good
slug of water...it could cause your plexiglass to soften or haze...I
know the Pledge trick has been used by a lot of owners but it may not be
the best way to clean or keep the windscreen clean...sort of an old
wives tale cure...you might contact SC Johnson--they have a phone number
on each can--and ask them for their advise on using using Pledge on
Plexiglass/planes to see if they've tested it long term.
Patrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Zenith-List Sun-N-Fun F-22/F-15/P-51 fly by pictures |
Raptor
| From: | "Condon, Philip M." <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
Cc: ,
Can anyone host the two Raptor pictures from last week sun-n-fun for
the group ??
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | IFR related cockpit stuff |
| From: | "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> |
Hey all -
For those going/have gone the chelton route - what are anyone's thoughts
about displaying/viewing things like approach plates or enroute charts?
I put my deposit down on the chelton stuff the day I got back from
S-N-F, and I got to thinking about it. I'm a brand new instrument rated
pilot (took my checkride the day I left for S-N-F), and I'm tired of
lugging around the super-heavy flight bag. I know the chelton will tell
you all you need to know about the approach, and the Trutrak autopilot
will fly it for you, but I like the idea of being able to see the plate
on the screen, possibly with a little airplane super-imposed on it. So
do you go "electronic flightbag" with a tablet computer? MX20 is a
thought but is a little pricey for what little I'd be using it for.
Plus, I'll be using the freeflight IFR GPS, and 2 SL30s in the panel.
No garmin GPS. Has anyone with more IFR experience than me thought
about this and arrived at a comfortable, yet suitably cool solution? Be
gentle with me. I'm new to this stuff.
cj
#40410
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
| Subject: | IFR related cockpit stuff |
You could look into the Flight Cheetah by true
flight(www.aviationsafety.com). The problem we found out on using plates
with the plane superimposed is that the plates are not to scale. I think
Anywhere's Pocket Plates has that option, but you have to calibrate every
plate before using it. That on a pocket PC or a tablet PC would also be
good. True Flight's GPS, weather and plates are really nice to have. They
have some great ways of displaying info like winds aloft, echo tops, metars,
etc that I have not seen elsewhere. They will calculate for you the fastest
and cheapest flight level based on winds aloft over your route, fuel burn at
different altitudes (you plug in fuel available at the beginning of the
flight), etc. I don't know how much the weather option costs for the
Chelton, but this may be an alternative, with a backup moving map as well,
and the plates, of course. The updates are the cheapest I have seen for the
plates and the software.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
I'm in Ecuador right now and should be back in the country by the end of
May. You may call me at 352-505-1899 and leave a message that I can check
from down here. Any I-TEC questions can be directed to the I-TEC office at
352-465-4545.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 1:27 PM
Subject: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
Hey all -
For those going/have gone the chelton route - what are anyone's thoughts
about displaying/viewing things like approach plates or enroute charts?
I put my deposit down on the chelton stuff the day I got back from
S-N-F, and I got to thinking about it. I'm a brand new instrument rated
pilot (took my checkride the day I left for S-N-F), and I'm tired of
lugging around the super-heavy flight bag. I know the chelton will tell
you all you need to know about the approach, and the Trutrak autopilot
will fly it for you, but I like the idea of being able to see the plate
on the screen, possibly with a little airplane super-imposed on it. So
do you go "electronic flightbag" with a tablet computer? MX20 is a
thought but is a little pricey for what little I'd be using it for.
Plus, I'll be using the freeflight IFR GPS, and 2 SL30s in the panel.
No garmin GPS. Has anyone with more IFR experience than me thought
about this and arrived at a comfortable, yet suitably cool solution? Be
gentle with me. I'm new to this stuff.
cj
#40410
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
| Subject: | 540 Crank drawing or dimensions |
Does anybody have a drawing or at least detailed dimensions of the 540
parallel valve crank shaft? We have found a case to use for fitting out
cowl, but haven't found a crank yet. If we could have a piece machined that
would fit from the case to where we will need to measure for the cowling,
that would work for us. Or, does anybody have a bad crank that they would
be willing to loan, donate or sell cheaply to the cause?
Thanks.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
<http://www.itecusa.org> www.itecusa.org
I'm in Ecuador right now and should be back in the country by the end of
May. You may call me at 352-505-1899 and leave a message that I can check
from down here. Any I-TEC questions can be directed to the I-TEC office at
352-465-4545.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff |
> From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
> Date: 2006/04/12 Wed PM 02:27:13 EDT
> To:
> Subject: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
>
> Has anyone with more IFR experience than me thought
> about this and arrived at a comfortable, yet suitably cool solution? Be gentle
with me. I'm new to this stuff.
My current solution is not elegant, but seems reasonably functional. I have an
approach certified GPS (GX-60) and a Jepp online subscription for updates that
includes nav data for approaches (but not electronic chart views); this is about
$300/yr. Before an IFR flight I print just the destination plates and a
couple of plausible alternate airport's approaches if it really looks like hardball
IFR, from either Airnav.com or AOPA's sites.
Now, this leaves me out in the cold if I have an emergency and have to make an
IFR approach to some airport along the way, but at that point, since the approach
fix names are in the GPS, I figure I would just ask ATC for the crossing altitudes
and MDA/DH for the approach, and the missed approach procedure. Since
I'm gonna be talking to them about the emergency anyway, and they're going to
be watching me closer in this circumstance, it should plausibly work out. Have
had two engine failures in the past 35 years of flying, (one IFR) and both
times ATC was very accommodating about working with me to find a realtime way
to minimize the risks and get down safely.
Just my $0.02 until the economical perfect panel arrives...
-Dan Masys
#40448
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sun-N-Fun my comments |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
So far there have been no problems with Lancairs running NACA ducts on
the vertical with rear fed overhead plenums. The other location is to
cut into the aluminum on the high pressure side of the vertical.
Remember that N410RV and N220RV have differing forces due to lower
engine output.
Ed got a lot of help from VANS on the correct location. It's a great
product offering. He is going with both left and right dual NACA fed
sources.
John Cox - KUAO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:12 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Sun-N-Fun my comments
Yes, it does seem like a bummer to have that air inlet there and it
looks
much too large for air moving at say 180mph or more. (Drag bucket) I
also
wonder whether the propeller swirl (P-factor)will cause some of the
exhaust
gasses to find there way up into that air scoop.
I also wonder about moisture.
The overhead does look great however.
John G. #409
No not archive
>From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Sun-N-Fun my comments
>Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:44:36 -0700
>
>
>Hey all -
>
>Is there a way to get air into the overhead panel without putting an
>inlet on the intersection fairing? Does that inlet on the fairing seem
>like a bummer to anyone else? I really like the look of the overhead
>panel though. What is the difference between the 3 flavors? Anyone?
>
>cj
>#40410
>wings
>www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Twenty Nine Palms |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Stay well away from the leeward back burbles, the turbulence can be
teeth rattling. Be mindful of correct ridgeline crossing heading and
altitudes. I had a friend who was knocked out cold from a smack from
both an errant mike and baggage as we ventured through the pass. Early
AM is best.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Twenty Nine Palms
Nothing special about the airport itself, I took my multiegine training
nearby @ salton sea (below sea level) and we used it for some IFR
approaches. Depending upon your route takes you pass through the Banning
Pass, just north of Palm Springs, you can expect some bumps,
particularly if late in the day or if there is any wind (very common).
if you come down through the Calif inland valleys and come on the
backside of mtns you will avoid that and most of the Trafic associated
with the LAX and Ontario/Riverside approaches.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
Randy DeBauw wrote:
> I am heading to Twenty Nine Palms Ca. this Friday. Is there anyone who
> has used that airport? Any thing I should know about it. Thanks,
Randy
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William" <wcurtis(at)core.com> |
>You Chelton EFIS guys should have an Artex ELT and an
>S-Tec autopilot, since they all belong to the Chelton family!
Tim,
This is the second time you have made this statement, so I'm compelled to inquire.
All my research indicates that the Chelton Group (Artex, Chelton Avionics,
Comant, NAT, etc) and Meggitt (UK) Ltd. (Meggitt Avionics, S-Tec, etc) are NOT
the same company. Also, D2A is NOT part of the Chelton group, they only have
a dealer relationship with Chelton Flight Systems. Can you point me to the
relationship between Meggitt (S-Tec) and Chelton?
http://www.chelton.com/common/group_chart.asp
Chelton has the EFIS SV line of EFIS, and Meggit has the MAGIC line (http://www.magic.aero/) of EFIS.
William Curtis
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff |
another approach. I print the origin/destination/planned alternates from
Airnav or AOPA; update the DBs in the GPS twice a year and carry a DVD with
the low altitude enroutes and approach plates for backup. A notebook
computer allows retrieval of other info off the flight plan route.
- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Masys" <dmasys(at)cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
>
>> From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
>> Date: 2006/04/12 Wed PM 02:27:13 EDT
>> To:
>> Subject: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
>>
>> Has anyone with more IFR experience than me thought
>> about this and arrived at a comfortable, yet suitably cool solution? Be
>> gentle with me. I'm new to this stuff.
>
> My current solution is not elegant, but seems reasonably functional. I
> have an approach certified GPS (GX-60) and a Jepp online subscription for
> updates that includes nav data for approaches (but not electronic chart
> views); this is about $300/yr. Before an IFR flight I print just the
> destination plates and a couple of plausible alternate airport's
> approaches if it really looks like hardball IFR, from either Airnav.com or
> AOPA's sites.
>
> Now, this leaves me out in the cold if I have an emergency and have to
> make an IFR approach to some airport along the way, but at that point,
> since the approach fix names are in the GPS, I figure I would just ask ATC
> for the crossing altitudes and MDA/DH for the approach, and the missed
> approach procedure. Since I'm gonna be talking to them about the
> emergency anyway, and they're going to be watching me closer in this
> circumstance, it should plausibly work out. Have had two engine failures
> in the past 35 years of flying, (one IFR) and both times ATC was very
> accommodating about working with me to find a realtime way to minimize the
> risks and get down safely.
>
> Just my $0.02 until the economical perfect panel arrives...
>
> -Dan Masys
> #40448
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net> |
>
> I keep doing the numbers and coming up with a range of 120 to 160, but never
> below the 120 mark. And sometimes above the 160 fathom.
Seems absolutely frugal compared to a new 140kt Skylane costing $300K or a Cirrus
at $450K, doesn't it? Makes me think I should have kept the fully loaded IFR
equipped C172 that I got for $15K in 1987 as a table ornament.
As Gordon Baxter said, the price of aviation has always been the same: all you
got.
-Dan Masys
#40448
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Buhwana <buhwana(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV10-List Digest: 70 Msgs - 04/12/06 |
Expect to see N533JD there. You'll like this one!
BTW at SnF the Garmin rep hinted that they were looking at the
possibility of offering the G1000 to the EXP group. Seems they have
two employees building -10. the decision would be after OSH. He
smiled and said they could ~probably~ do it for considerably less
than chelton!
On Apr 13, 2006, at 1:57 AM, RV10-List Digest Server wrote:
> Thanks. All is well. Hope to see you again at OSH this year. You
> planning
> on being there? While we are on this, what new -10=92s are hoping
> to be at
> Osh this year that weren=92t last year? I hope to have N415EC
> there, that=92s
> kit 40415 built in Ecuador. I am sure we will be seeing N104CD there.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff |
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
Here you go:
http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=3Dnaco/online/d_tpp
TDT
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff
I'll try to see if I can locate a site from the Fed's...they now make
this same information available to us, the public, for free...one of the
guys from the Langley group spoke to local pilots via an FAA safety
seminar recently...I'll see if I still have the reference...these
updating disc are available from a number of places...but acording to a
fellow presenting the information we can get it directly, vai a
download, from the Fed also for free...it's somewhere out there!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp Flightdeck |
Tim is this system a "real" active system or is it a TIS system and dependent
upon radar returns from various centers? I believe that with the TCAS system
one needs active interrogation system while in the G 1000 it's a TIS system.
P
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp Flightdeck |
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
All of the Avidyne TAS series are true active sensors that send out
their own "pings" and are not passive systems, nor TIS systems. TAS
systems like the Avidyne TAS and L-3 Skywatch are active systems, as is
TCAS, but TCAS has the extra capability of not only giving you Traffic
Alerts (TAs), but also Resolution Advisories (RAs), where the system
coordinates with the other aircraft (if also TCAS), telling one aircraft
to climb and one aircraft to descend. TCAS is what the airliners use.
BTW, G1000 is just a display in regards to traffic. I suppose it can
display TIS from its remote GTX330 transponder, but it will also
interface to an active Avidyne TAS600, or probably even an L-3 Skywatch.
TDT
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp
Flightdeck
Tim is this system a "real" active system or is it a TIS system and
dependent upon radar returns from various centers? I believe that with
the TCAS system one needs active interrogation system while in the G
1000 it's a TIS system.
P
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp Flightdeck |
Tim, the G 1000 gives you a trend line and altitude of the target also...but
the signal is a return signal so the traffic is really never where it's
pointed out...but a nice feature along with the 6 second trend line.
P
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Sponcil" <bsponcil(at)belinblank.org> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp Flightdeck |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:30 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp
Flightdeck
>
>
> traffic system can be offered at $9990. (or in the package above) The
> TAS600 plays with many/most MFDs out there, e.g. Cheltons, GNS430/530,
> MX20, CNX80, KMD550.
How about the GRT EFIS? Although 10k is a non-trivial amount for a slow,
fat, aging computer dude such as myself, it's an upgrade I'd probably shell
out for if it'll talk to one of the non-certified boxes.
-Brian
#40497
N211BD
Iowa City, IA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp Flightdeck |
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
Again, the G1000 is just a display for the traffic sensor. In that
case, the TIS transponder. TIS information is actually transmitted from
a ground based Mode-S radar that is tracking the other aircraft and then
sending the data to you. The track of the targets is calculated by the
system on the ground before being sent up to you. The altitude is from
the target's transponder, and almost all traffic systems will show you
that.
In order to get any traffic with TIS, you need to be within range of a
Mode-S ground radar, which unfortunately they are not installing any
more of, and actually are decommissioning some. I flew the G1000 in a
Diamond out of Las Vegas, and about out near the Hoover Dam, all the
traffic symbols went away, because we left the range of the Mode-S radar
at Las Vegas. (And all of that traffic buzzing around the Grand Canyon
would be nice to see!)
The G1000 will happily display traffic from an active traffic sensor
like the Avidyne TAS600 or L-3 Skywatch.
TDT
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp
Flightdeck
Tim, the G 1000 gives you a trend line and altitude of the target
also...but the signal is a return signal so the traffic is really never
where it's pointed out...but a nice feature along with the 6 second
trend line.
P
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp Flightdeck |
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
Good question for GRT. The TAS600 will spit out standard ARINC 429
traffic information labels . . .
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sponcil
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp
Flightdeck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:30 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp
Flightdeck
>
>
> traffic system can be offered at $9990. (or in the package above) The
> TAS600 plays with many/most MFDs out there, e.g. Cheltons, GNS430/530,
> MX20, CNX80, KMD550.
How about the GRT EFIS? Although 10k is a non-trivial amount for a slow,
fat, aging computer dude such as myself, it's an upgrade I'd probably
shell
out for if it'll talk to one of the non-certified boxes.
-Brian
#40497
N211BD
Iowa City, IA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Marz or Amy Marz" <blalmarz(at)earthlink.net> |
Just finished my rear windows and wanted to share some info. Did the right
side per plans; it went ok but the Weld-on 10 is messy. On the left side I
put the glue on the window while it was flat; and had my helper guide the
bottom to the correct position then flipped the window into position. Had a
few drips but much better than the right side. Also found a place in LA(
Gavrieli Plastics 818-982-0000) that sells Weld-on 10 in 16 oz. Kits for
$17.00. Blue Skys. Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> |
| Subject: | Removable Rear Windows? |
Does anyone think there would be interest in removable/hinged rear windows
similar to our Legacy windows? Please see:
http://www.aircraftersllc.com/projects/legacyWindow/index.htm
Cost would be around the same as for the Legacy, $579. The Legacy parts
weigh 21 ounces.
My QB arrives next week and I will develop the molds if I can get about 20
orders.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
831-722-9141
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff |
> From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
> Date: 2006/04/13 Thu AM 10:09:22 EDT
> Building and upgrading later is an option, but it's a fun
> thought. That's why people sweat it so much.
As somebody who has had my first RV in the air for the past three years, I can
tell you that upgrading is inevitable. Once your plane is paid off and you see
the new cool toys coming out each year, it will be too much temptation to bear
to not add a new gadget here and there. My -7A is all electric and started
out with round guages. Swapped the artificial horizon for a TruTrak solid state
AI, added a switch to the panel labelled "WX Radar" and plumbed in a NavAir
XM weather display running on a Toshiba. The list goes on...
Once a project, always a project. The EFIS are bigger ticket items, but a working
system has some residual value and can be sold to some other builder to make
way for an even cooler tool.
It's why when people ask you when your plane is going to be done, the real answer
is never. (And glad of it!)
-Dan Masys
#40448
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Removable Rear Windows? |
Dave, I'm not all that keen on a removable window, BUT I expect there
would be a much larger interest if you could make some molds for some
window frame covers that could be attached to the inside of the RV10-
cockpit windows, that could be installed on top of the
headliner/upholstery fabric and give the plane a clean/finished look.
From an appearance point of view this is one of the weak points (IMHO)
on the kit, and I've been conjuring how I could address it myself by
making some fiberglass covers/'rings'.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
Dave Saylor wrote:
>
>Does anyone think there would be interest in removable/hinged rear windows
>similar to our Legacy windows? Please see:
>
>http://www.aircraftersllc.com/projects/legacyWindow/index.htm
>
>Cost would be around the same as for the Legacy, $579. The Legacy parts
>weigh 21 ounces.
>
>My QB arrives next week and I will develop the molds if I can get about 20
>orders.
>
>Dave Saylor
>AirCrafters LLC
>831-722-9141
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rear Windows |
If you haven't bonded in windows before I recommend a call to Phoenix
Composites in Mesa AZ at FFZ. They do this all the time and have some good
procedures that they will share in a phone call.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Marz or Amy Marz" <blalmarz(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 4:29 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Rear Windows
>
>
> Just finished my rear windows and wanted to share some info. Did the right
> side per plans; it went ok but the Weld-on 10 is messy. On the left side I
> put the glue on the window while it was flat; and had my helper guide the
> bottom to the correct position then flipped the window into position. Had
> a
> few drips but much better than the right side. Also found a place in LA(
> Gavrieli Plastics 818-982-0000) that sells Weld-on 10 in 16 oz. Kits for
> $17.00. Blue Skys. Barry
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jay Rowe" <jfrjr(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | aileron trim tension |
Just installed the aileron trim servo/springs in and on the left aileron push rod
and access plate---fairly easy installation but the amount of tension the spings
place on the push rod seems excessive. Don't know how many ft/lbs it takes
to displace the push rod but one has to give a pretty good tug. I rechecked
the distances from the spring attachments and they are okay and the servo lever
goes nicely from stop to stop. But it just seems too stiff. In fact displacing
the rod causes some slight oil canning of the access plate skin. Does anyone
know how "stiff" that action should be, or how to measure it? Or does anyone
else have such concerns? Jay Rowe 40301
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rear Windows |
Dave,
Are you saying NOT to use the window (WELD ON) glue Van's recommends...........and
use epoxy/resin instead? I agree the e-glass around the perimeter is a good
idea,,,,,,,,,what WEGHT of e-glass do they recommend? Just one layer of E-glass
and how do they feather it in to look flawless?
Thanks,
Dean 40449
Dave,
Are you saying NOT to use the window (WELD ON)glue Van's recommends...........and
use epoxy/resin instead? I agree the e-glass around the perimeter is a good
idea,,,,,,,,,what WEGHT of e-glass do they recommend? Just one layer of E-glass
and how do they feather it in to look flawless?
Thanks,
Dean 40449
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: aileron trim tension |
| From: | "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net> |
Jay,
I called Van's yesterday to order this trim system. I talked to Gus Funnel.
He said that it is supposed to be mounted on the most inboard access plate (close
to the wing root) where the skin thickness is 32 thous. He did not mention
any spring tension rates.
I have this very same type of spring system on my RV8. It does feel tight when
assembled, but when you grab the stick and move the ailerons, you hardly notice
it.
Zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28342#28342
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rear Windows |
My cohort is reviewing our procedure to determine whether I forgot anything . we
will put on it the list later today. If you want to see how it looks, my Glastar
will be at OSH thurs through sat N48007. If required I could get a couple
of pictures of the finished product.
In the meantime a got the following note from a friend at the Big Airplane Company.
Subject: C-5B Accident Dover
FYI: Received from a personal friend who is often involved in
investigations into mishaps of large planes such as this.
> The old story -- nobody was flying the A/C.........
>
> "The current skinny on the crash--none of it official--until the board
says so.
>
> It was not a bird ingestion but a "reverser unlock" on the #2 engine
> that started this. They lost a C-5 with all aboard a few years back
> in Germany for the same cause. This crew however shut down the engine
> before an actual unstow took place. The airplane was well over 700K
> gross weight with FOB of over 300K. The airplane had the newest
> version of the C-5 flight deck with big panel glass. Unfortunately,
> only one of the three pilots was really comfortable with the new
equipment and FMS.
>
> The crew decided because of their weight to fly their approach to the
> longest runway, which unfortunately was only being served that day by
> a Tacan (fancy VOR for you civilian types) approach. They also
> decided to fly a full flap approach to keep the approach speed down.
> This isn't prohibited--just highly discouraged. The recommended flap
> setting for a three engine approach is Flaps 40. During the approach
> the crew became worried about not having enough power to fly a full
> flap approach and selected flaps 40--which they were now too slow for.
> Here's the point all you glass cockpit guys should sit up and take
> notice about. The one guy who was familiar with the new glass and FMS
> was also the one flying the aircraft. He became distracted inputting
> the new approach speed in the FMS. There was also some confusion
> about just who was flying the A/C while he had his head down updating
> the speed. Long story short--they got way slow and into the shaker,
> and actually stuck the tail into the trees and it departed the
> aircraft first. The nose pitched down hard and the nose and left wing
> impacted next snapping off the nose. Several cockpit occupants
> suffered spinal compression injuries. The guys sitting at the crew
table behind the cockpit actually came to a stop with their legs
dangling out over the ground.
>
> The miracle of this was the left outboard fuel tank was broken open
> and none of that fuel managed to find something hot enough to ignite
> it and the other 300k. Again, a bunch of very lucky people.
>
>
----- Original Message -----
From: ddddsp1(at)juno.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 11:28 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rear Windows
Dave,
Are you saying NOT to use the window (WELD ON) glue Van's recommends...........and
use epoxy/resin instead? I agree the e-glass around the perimeter is a
good idea,,,,,,,,,what WEGHT of e-glass do they recommend? Just one layer of
E-glass and how do they feather it in to look flawless?
Thanks,
Dean 40449
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cal Hoffman" <cehoffman(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vans VA-186 Oil cooler box assy |
Marcus:
My oil cooler mounts to the firewall with rivets. It also looks as if Tim Olson
mounted his with rivets also.
Cal Hoffman (40119 canoe)
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Cooper
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 9:08 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vans VA-186 Oil cooler box assy
Ralph,
I got the Firewall Forward kit and it has the same oil cooler box you received.
It uses the 20006A oil cooler and it works fits just fine. You bolt it
to the firewall with the large duct fitting facing up using AN-3 bolts through
the firewall into nut plates that should be in place by now. The oil cooler
fits on the front with bolts to nut plates with the fittings on the top side.
Hope this helps, if not I can zap a picture or two. Check out this link from
Tim Olson's site of the box:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/engine/20051014/RV200510140214.html
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 8:11 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Vans VA-186 Oil cooler box assy
Fellow listers,
Has anyone out there used this thing for their oil cooler? It is supposed to
be for the 20006A or 8604R oil cooler. I got this thing - no photos/instructions
and it doesn't look right to do what I think its supposed to do.
Any help would be appreciated,
Ralph
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
Pictures to follow later today
window procedure
Although the procedure takes only about an hour to accomplish per window, setup
and planning is substantially more.. I recommend that you do one window to get
the procs correct and plan to do the windshield on a day by itself.
(0) tape off the inside and outside flange area of the window using 3M Fineline
(.5 width)
(1) then signstrip blue on the center areas to protect the inside and outside of
the window . Be generous when painting it on as this makes it easy to pull off.
(2) sand the inside/outside edges of the window in the area of the flange to roughen
the glass for adhesion.
(3) sand the flanges of the lid; CLEAN ALL SANDED EDGES WITH ACETONE
(4) prepare a set of aluminum "fingers" . Strips of .080 1" by 3" ; with a slight
bend in the center. one end gets a #30 hole and the other is adequately taped.
each is numbered. See the picture.
(5) Trim the window to fit the frame and temporarily hold in place with the NUMBERED
"fingers". Clecoes should be place about .50" outside the window. Drill
#30 only through the external layer; NOT THROUGH THE LID. RETAPE OFF THE EDGES
3M FINELINE TAPE .
(6) prepare a mixture of epoxy with chopped fibers and cabosil. Consistency should
be peanut butter. Potlife should plan to be 30-40 minutes. We refrigerated
it to further slow the cure.
(7) putty the lid flanges, wet the window flanges with a small amount of catalyzed
epoxy and place window in frame; holding in place with "fingers" at the preplanned
locations.
(8) inside person should be wiping excess putty away with a 50-50 mixture of mineral
spirirts and acetone; outside person should be smoothing putty on outside
flange. excess will be sanded off later. then PULL THE TAPES BEFORE IT CURES.
(9) allow to cure 24 hours.
(10) Inside lid , flange should be finished . If rough, tape glass and sand lightly.
(11) outside the lid, RETAPE the edge at the flange line, then cover the flange
with two 1" layers of glass (E-7782?). (Note this was the Glastar procedure.)
Remember to pull the tape before the layered glass sets up. The windscreen on
the RV10 requires a different layering of glass on the aluminum.
(12) Retape the edge , then sand and fill external flange area for paint. The sanding
can feather into the edge of the tape.
(13) when painted , paint should cover the flange.
(14) MUST BE DONE BEFORE THE MIXTURE CURES. If you accidentally get epoxy on the
Plexiglas during the process, it can be safely removed using a clean cloth and
the 50-50 mixture of mineral spirits and acetone. Have it handy.
(15) 50-50 mixture is also good for removing any signstrip that does not come off
when finally removing the protective covering before flight.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
DO NOT FORGET TO PUT VASELINE ON THE CLECO TIP FOR EASY REMOVAL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> |
| Subject: | Removable Rear Windows? |
On the Legacy the hinged rear windows are very useful for loading and
accessing the baggage compartment. I realize the baggage door on the -10
serves that purpose, as does easier access from the passenger area.
So this is a question for -10 users--if you find yourselves wanting easier
access to the baggage compartment, perhaps from the right side, or if you
think it might be useful as an emergency exit, please let me know.
Some people expressed interest in trim rings, which are a much easier
product to produce, so I will get started on those soon. Cost for trim
rings will be about $100 each, oversized so you can "trim" to whatever size
you think looks best.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
831-722-9141
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
pictures
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jay Rowe" <jfrjr(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: aileron trim tension |
Thanks Zack---good info. Would like to hear from you again after you have
your aileron trim installed. I will talk to Gus about the buckling of the
access plate skin as well. Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 8:43 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: aileron trim tension
>
> Jay,
>
> I called Van's yesterday to order this trim system. I talked to Gus
> Funnel. He said that it is supposed to be mounted on the most inboard
> access plate (close to the wing root) where the skin thickness is 32
> thous. He did not mention any spring tension rates.
>
> I have this very same type of spring system on my RV8. It does feel
> tight when assembled, but when you grab the stick and move the ailerons,
> you hardly notice it.
>
> Zack
>
> --------
> RV8 #80125
> RV10 # 40512
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28342#28342
>
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff |
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
I was reading something that suggested for the airworthiness inspection,
the examiner was also going to be interested in seeing your test plan
for flight testing the aircraft. What have folks been doing for that?
A one-page outline of tasks, or an 80-page flight test plan with
individual test cards, or something in-between?
TDT
40025
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
We used a very similar method, but used screws to hold the clips to keep
them tight and used FE6026 Part A & B from Spruce as the glue. It was
recommended to us by a guy who builds Lancairs and it seems to hold really
well. We just filled around the edges with epoxy and micro and have not had
any cracking after 200+ flying hours. No e-glass, but it wouldn't hurt.
Just would take a lot more work to get faired into the windows well.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
<http://www.itecusa.org> www.itecusa.org
I'm in Ecuador right now and should be back in the country by the end of
May. You may call me at 352-505-1899 and leave a message that I can check
from down here. Any I-TEC questions can be directed to the I-TEC office at
352-465-4545.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 11:21 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Windows
Pictures to follow later today
window procedure
Although the procedure takes only about an hour to accomplish per window,
setup and planning is substantially more.. I recommend that you do one
window to get the procs correct and plan to do the windshield on a day by
itself.
(0) tape off the inside and outside flange area of the window using 3M
Fineline (.5 width)
(1) then signstrip blue on the center areas to protect the inside and
outside of the window . Be generous when painting it on as this makes it
easy to pull off.
(2) sand the inside/outside edges of the window in the area of the flange to
roughen the glass for adhesion.
(3) sand the flanges of the lid; CLEAN ALL SANDED EDGES WITH ACETONE
(4) prepare a set of aluminum "fingers" . Strips of .080 1" by 3" ; with a
slight bend in the center. one end gets a #30 hole and the other is
adequately taped. each is numbered. See the picture.
(5) Trim the window to fit the frame and temporarily hold in place with the
NUMBERED "fingers". Clecoes should be place about .50" outside the window.
Drill #30 only through the external layer; NOT THROUGH THE LID. RETAPE OFF
THE EDGES 3M FINELINE TAPE .
(6) prepare a mixture of epoxy with chopped fibers and cabosil. Consistency
should be peanut butter. Potlife should plan to be 30-40 minutes. We
refrigerated it to further slow the cure.
(7) putty the lid flanges, wet the window flanges with a small amount of
catalyzed epoxy and place window in frame; holding in place with "fingers"
at the preplanned locations.
(8) inside person should be wiping excess putty away with a 50-50 mixture of
mineral spirirts and acetone; outside person should be smoothing putty on
outside flange. excess will be sanded off later. then PULL THE TAPES BEFORE
IT CURES.
(9) allow to cure 24 hours.
(10) Inside lid , flange should be finished . If rough, tape glass and sand
lightly.
(11) outside the lid, RETAPE the edge at the flange line, then cover the
flange with two 1" layers of glass (E-7782?). (Note this was the Glastar
procedure.) Remember to pull the tape before the layered glass sets up. The
windscreen on the RV10 requires a different layering of glass on the
aluminum.
(12) Retape the edge , then sand and fill external flange area for paint.
The sanding can feather into the edge of the tape.
(13) when painted , paint should cover the flange.
(14) MUST BE DONE BEFORE THE MIXTURE CURES. If you accidentally get epoxy on
the Plexiglas during the process, it can be safely removed using a clean
cloth and the 50-50 mixture of mineral spirits and acetone. Have it handy.
(15) 50-50 mixture is also good for removing any signstrip that does not
come off when finally removing the protective covering before flight.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darton Steve <sfdarton(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Van's Fuel sender |
Tonight I began to install the fuel sender unit in the
Right tank, it appears to be exactly the same unit as
the one in the Left tank. Not a "flopped" version or
mirror copy. It appears that the factory miss-labeled
a left hand version as a right and boxed it as a right
so I have two left side senders. Can anyone tell me
for sure that they are each supposed to angle down
towards the bottom of the tank when installed?
Thanks, Steve 40212
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark & Kelly Hanley" <2eyedocs(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | RV-10 Screen Burn-In |
Funny story, I like Larry Feldhousen's Blue RV-10 so much that I set it up on my
office computer as my Wallpaper and Screensaver and I now have a permanent image
burned into my monitor. Oh well, I can think of worse things!
Mark
DNA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Fuel sender |
Steve,
Here are a couple pictures of the left and right senders when installed.
-Jim 40384
Darton Steve wrote:
>
>Tonight I began to install the fuel sender unit in the
>Right tank, it appears to be exactly the same unit as
>the one in the Left tank. Not a "flopped" version or
>mirror copy. It appears that the factory miss-labeled
>a left hand version as a right and boxed it as a right
>so I have two left side senders. Can anyone tell me
>for sure that they are each supposed to angle down
>towards the bottom of the tank when installed?
>
>Thanks, Steve 40212
>
>__________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Marlow <sam.marlow(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Removable Rear Windows? |
I'm interstead in trim rings!
Sam Marlow
Fuse
Dave Saylor wrote:
>
>On the Legacy the hinged rear windows are very useful for loading and
>accessing the baggage compartment. I realize the baggage door on the -10
>serves that purpose, as does easier access from the passenger area.
>
>So this is a question for -10 users--if you find yourselves wanting easier
>access to the baggage compartment, perhaps from the right side, or if you
>think it might be useful as an emergency exit, please let me know.
>
>Some people expressed interest in trim rings, which are a much easier
>product to produce, so I will get started on those soon. Cost for trim
>rings will be about $100 each, oversized so you can "trim" to whatever size
>you think looks best.
>
>Dave Saylor
>AirCrafters LLC
>831-722-9141
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff |
> From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com>
> Date: 2006/04/14 Fri PM 04:28:00 EDT
> To:
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff
>
> I was reading something that suggested for the airworthiness inspection,
> the examiner was also going to be interested in seeing your test plan
> for flight testing the aircraft. What have folks been doing for that?
> A one-page outline of tasks, or an 80-page flight test plan with
> individual test cards, or something in-between?
The only topic that came up at my -7's signoff was the boundaries of the flight
test area. The DAR wanted to be sure I had a marked Sectional showing its limits
(and a copy was included in his signoff paperwork for phase I) since the
standard text description of it in the San Diego area was pretty complicated and
bordered by restricted airspace. If I can infer from the silence on the topic
of the flight test program, the general attitude was 'go out and kill yourself
if you like, but please do it in this area. Rest is up to you.'
Since DAR's and FSDO's seem to vary dramatically, this is just an anecdote...
-Dan Masys
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cal Hoffman" <cehoffman(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vans VA-186 Oil cooler box assy |
Speaking of room, what is the trend on mounting oil filters?? Standard
horizontal, alternate 90 degree or remote? I am planning a pre-oiler
installation but have not mounted my enging yet.
Cal Hoffman (40119 - canoe)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Vans VA-186 Oil cooler box assy
>
> Dan,
>
> Thanks for the info. I really like the oil cooler (whichever one) mounted
on the firewall as I am using a SamJames plenum and there just doesn't seem
to be enough room for the cooler up on the back of the baffling.
>
> You are probably corect in that I could go with a smaller cooler - maybe a
stewart warner 8406R like some of the other 6A O360 guys are using.
>
> Ralph
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net>
> >Sent: Apr 10, 2006 10:48 AM
> >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Vans VA-186 Oil cooler box assy
> >
> >
> >> From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
> >> Date: 2006/04/10 Mon AM 08:17:12 EDT
> >
> >> Thanks Tim....that Oil cooler is Huge!
> >>
> >> Now I'm pretty sure I know how it works - I just gotta figure if it is
the correct setup for my 6A.
> >>
> >> I have an Aerosport Power O360 with AFP injection and 9.2 pistons - so
I think I need more oil cooler than the average bear.
> >
> >Ralph,
> >
> >For the O-360 you really don't need the giant oil cooler used on the -10.
I have a 200hp IO-360 in my -7A and use a 7 row cooler (the O-320 model has
5 rows) mounted to the left rear cylinder. Oil temps essentially never get
above 210 even with sustained full power climbs at best rate in summer
conditions. In cruise the oil temp is always right at 170, which is the
vernatherm opening temp.
> >
> >Both Dan Checkoway and I had problems with the weight of the larger
cooler causing cracking of the baffle, so we both added a 3/4 angle brace
from the inner flange of the baffle to a midline bolt on the engine case.
> >
> >On the other hand, mounting the oil cooler on the firewall rather than
the engine certainly saves stress on the cylinder it is bolted to, and the
baffles.
> >
> >-Dan Masys
> >RV-7A N747DL flying
> >RV-10A N104LD fuselage
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darton Steve <sfdarton(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Fuel sender |
James,
Thanks for the pictures. That is what mine looks like,
you see the back side of the sender on the right tank.
That is how I installed mine too.
Steve 40212
--- James Hein wrote:
> Steve,
> Here are a couple pictures of the left and right
> senders when installed.
>
> -Jim 40384
>
> Darton Steve wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Tonight I began to install the fuel sender unit in
> the
> >Right tank, it appears to be exactly the same unit
> as
> >the one in the Left tank. Not a "flopped" version
> or
> >mirror copy. It appears that the factory
> miss-labeled
> >a left hand version as a right and boxed it as a
> right
> >so I have two left side senders. Can anyone tell me
> >for sure that they are each supposed to angle down
> >towards the bottom of the tank when installed?
> >
> >Thanks, Steve 40212
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> protection around
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Mounting Lasar unit |
Folks,
I'm getting ready to put my Lasar computer on the firewall (where I've seen them
before in pictures). for those of you that have this ignition system, are you
putting some backing plates to spread the load out - or just nutplating it
in?
Thanks,
Ralph
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mounting Lasar unit |
I just drilled #19 holes and used 4 #8 screws to attach it to the firewall.
I used steel locknuts on the hot side of the firewall.
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 4/15/2006 4:04:44 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
recapen(at)earthlink.net writes:
Folks,
I'm getting ready to put my Lasar computer on the firewall (where I've seen
them before in pictures). for those of you that have this ignition system,
are you putting some backing plates to spread the load out - or just
nutplating it in?
Thanks,
Ralph
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
jsmcgrew(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> |
| Subject: | FAB Instructions |
Can someone tell me where the Filtered Airbox Instructions are located?
The FAB kit did not include any, and they are not in the FWF
instructions that I have.
Does someone have a set the can scan and e-mail to me? Or enlighten me
on where I may find them?
Thanks
-Mike Kraus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Indran Chelvanayagam" <ichelva(at)netspace.net.au> |
| Subject: | FAB Instructions |
I can email these instructions (577Kb file) to anyone else if requested - I
haven't posted them here in deference to those with dial-up (Chris McG - you
listening?)
Indran Chelvanayagam
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kraus
Sent: Sunday, 16 April 2006 6:29 AM
Subject: RV10-List: FAB Instructions
Can someone tell me where the Filtered Airbox Instructions are located? The
FAB kit did not include any, and they are not in the FWF instructions that I
have.
Does someone have a set the can scan and e-mail to me? Or enlighten me on
where I may find them?
Thanks
-Mike Kraus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FAB Instructions |
Indran,
I would be interested in a copy. THanks.
Ed Godfrey
Indran Chelvanayagam wrote:
> I can email these instructions (577Kb file) to anyone else if
> requested - I haven't posted them here in deference to those with
> dial-up (Chris McG - you listening?)
>
> Indran Chelvanayagam
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kraus
> Sent: Sunday, 16 April 2006 6:29 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: FAB Instructions
>
> Can someone tell me where the Filtered Airbox Instructions are
> located? The FAB kit did not include any, and they are not in the FWF
> instructions that I have.
>
> Does someone have a set the can scan and e-mail to me? Or enlighten
> me on where I may find them?
>
> Thanks
> -Mike Kraus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | FAB Instructions |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Edgerton" <weeav8ter(at)grandecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Removable Rear Windows? |
I would possible be interested in the window trim pieces also.
Wayne Edgerton #40336
do no archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net> |
For those of you "lucky" enough to have the luxury of building your own fuel tanks,
here's a tip that might save you some time.
The plans have you rivet the J channel in the tanks after the ribs. Don't have
to. Check it out for yourself before you proseal. Put the J channel in place
with clecos. Now, put one or all of the ribs in place just to see if you
can do it. It is very easy and you will find works.
I prosealed and back riveted all bottom and top tank stiffners in first (as per
plans) but also riveted and prosealed the J channel. Then I installed the
ribs. With an "acid brush" with the hairs cut off half way, I painted the ribs
and skin with proseal. Now, slide the rib onto skin. You cock the rib 45 degrees,
put the J channel end on the skin first, then put the rib straight in
place. It works guys! The best part about this procedure is that you can back
rivet the J channel in place and not worry about sliding that proseal mess in
later.
Zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28717#28717
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cal Hoffman" <cehoffman(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FAB Instructions |
MessageI would also like a copy, please.
Cal Hoffman (cehoffman(at)bellsouth.net)
----- Original Message -----
From: Indran Chelvanayagam
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 7:49 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FAB Instructions
I can email these instructions (577Kb file) to anyone else if requested - I haven't
posted them here in deference to those with dial-up (Chris McG - you listening?)
Indran Chelvanayagam
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kraus
Sent: Sunday, 16 April 2006 6:29 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: FAB Instructions
Can someone tell me where the Filtered Airbox Instructions are located? The
FAB kit did not include any, and they are not in the FWF instructions that I have.
Does someone have a set the can scan and e-mail to me? Or enlighten me on where
I may find them?
Thanks
-Mike Kraus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Standley" <taildragon(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Low Drag VHF Antenna |
Message
Is anyone using the Van's Low Drag VHF Antenna? Any tips on installation?
Roger Standley
#40291 - fuselage, wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Low Drag VHF Antenna |
Roger,
I mounted the low drag VHF comm antenna in the canopy for use with my #2
radio. I have a bent whip on the belly of the plane for my #1 radio. I glassed
it to the inside of the canopy top, just aft of the right door. This antenna is
supposed to be vertical as much as possible and that is the best place I
could find an almost vertical 23" surface. After sanding, filling and painting
it just disappeared and looks great. I hooked it up to my VHF handheld and
have been listening to airline traffic in and out of Boise from my garage... as
far as I can tell it works great. Fiberglass does not blank VHF transmissions
- however I believe certain exterior paints (metallics?) might have some
effect. The reason I did not want to use this for my primary radio is the
considerable blanking you get from the aluminum portion of the fuselage, but it
should be fine for a backup.
Additionally, I plan on glassing the VOR antenna in the wingtip. That is a
horizontally polarized signal and should work great there. Plus there is much
less blanking from aluminum structures way out on the wing tip.
Pictures attached.
Jim
40134
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
_jsmcgrew(at)aol.com_ (mailto:jsmcgrew(at)aol.com)
In a message dated 4/16/2006 12:35:32 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
taildragon(at)msn.com writes:
Is anyone using the Van's Low Drag VHF Antenna? Any tips on installation?
Roger Standley
#40291 - fuselage, wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Standley" <taildragon(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Drag VHF Antenna |
Jim,
Thank you for the response. Very clever installation. One more question, what did
you do about a "ground plane"? Is one recommended?
Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com<mailto:JSMcGrew(at)aol.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Low Drag VHF Antenna
Roger,
I mounted the low drag VHF comm antenna in the canopy for use with my #2 radio.
I have a bent whip on the belly of the plane for my #1 radio. I glassed it
to the inside of the canopy top, just aft of the right door. This antenna is supposed
to be vertical as much as possible and that is the best place I could
find an almost vertical 23" surface. After sanding, filling and painting it just
disappeared and looks great. I hooked it up to my VHF handheld and have been
listening to airline traffic in and out of Boise from my garage... as far as
I can tell it works great. Fiberglass does not blank VHF transmissions - however
I believe certain exterior paints (metallics?) might have some effect. The
reason I did not want to use this for my primary radio is the considerable blanking
you get from the aluminum portion of the fuselage, but it should be fine
for a backup.
Additionally, I plan on glassing the VOR antenna in the wingtip. That is a horizontally
polarized signal and should work great there. Plus there is much less
blanking from aluminum structures way out on the wing tip.
Pictures attached.
Jim
40134
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
jsmcgrew(at)aol.com
In a message dated 4/16/2006 12:35:32 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, taildragon(at)msn.com
writes:
Is anyone using the Van's Low Drag VHF Antenna? Any tips on installation?
Roger Standley
#40291 - fuselage, wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Low Drag VHF Antenna |
I believe the ground plane requirement is covered by the antenna coax
connector (included in the antenna kit) which is bolted to the aluminum part of
the
airframe. There is no mention of ground plane in the sheet Van's included
with the antenna kit.
Jim
In a message dated 4/16/2006 1:55:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
taildragon(at)msn.com writes:
Jim,
Thank you for the response. Very clever installation. One more question,
what did you do about a "ground plane"? Is one recommended?
Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: _JSMcGrew(at)aol.com_ (mailto:JSMcGrew(at)aol.com)
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Low Drag VHF Antenna
Roger,
I mounted the low drag VHF comm antenna in the canopy for use with my #2
radio. I have a bent whip on the belly of the plane for my #1 radio. I glassed
it to the inside of the canopy top, just aft of the right door. This antenna
is supposed to be vertical as much as possible and that is the best place I
could find an almost vertical 23" surface. After sanding, filling and painting
it just disappeared and looks great. I hooked it up to my VHF handheld and
have been listening to airline traffic in and out of Boise from my garage... as
far as I can tell it works great. Fiberglass does not blank VHF
transmissions - however I believe certain exterior paints (metallics?) might have
some
effect. The reason I did not want to use this for my primary radio is the
considerable blanking you get from the aluminum portion of the fuselage, but it
should be fine for a backup.
Additionally, I plan on glassing the VOR antenna in the wingtip. That is a
horizontally polarized signal and should work great there. Plus there is much
less blanking from aluminum structures way out on the wing tip.
Pictures attached.
Jim
40134
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
_jsmcgrew(at)aol.com_ (mailto:jsmcgrew(at)aol.com)
In a message dated 4/16/2006 12:35:32 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
taildragon(at)msn.com writes:
Is anyone using the Van's Low Drag VHF Antenna? Any tips on installation?
Roger Standley
#40291 - fuselage, wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Drag VHF Antenna |
Most antenas need ground planes....the connector would not be enough.
Chris VK3GI 40388
----- Original Message -----
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Low Drag VHF Antenna
I believe the ground plane requirement is covered by the antenna coax connector
(included in the antenna kit) which is bolted to the aluminum part of the airframe.
There is no mention of ground plane in the sheet Van's included with
the antenna kit.
Jim
In a message dated 4/16/2006 1:55:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, taildragon(at)msn.com
writes:
Jim,
Thank you for the response. Very clever installation. One more question, what
did you do about a "ground plane"? Is one recommended?
Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Low Drag VHF Antenna
Roger,
I mounted the low drag VHF comm antenna in the canopy for use with my #2
radio. I have a bent whip on the belly of the plane for my #1 radio. I glassed
it to the inside of the canopy top, just aft of the right door. This antenna
is supposed to be vertical as much as possible and that is the best place I could
find an almost vertical 23" surface. After sanding, filling and painting it
just disappeared and looks great. I hooked it up to my VHF handheld and have
been listening to airline traffic in and out of Boise from my garage... as far
as I can tell it works great. Fiberglass does not blank VHF transmissions -
however I believe certain exterior paints (metallics?) might have some effect.
The reason I did not want to use this for my primary radio is the considerable
blanking you get from the aluminum portion of the fuselage, but it should be
fine for a backup.
Additionally, I plan on glassing the VOR antenna in the wingtip. That is
a horizontally polarized signal and should work great there. Plus there is much
less blanking from aluminum structures way out on the wing tip.
Pictures attached.
Jim
40134
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
jsmcgrew(at)aol.com
In a message dated 4/16/2006 12:35:32 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, taildragon(at)msn.com
writes:
Is anyone using the Van's Low Drag VHF Antenna? Any tips on installation?
Roger Standley
#40291 - fuselage, wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FAB Instructions |
MessageIndran are you sending a 4-6 meg picture? Thats what the drama was not very
useful files like this ....please put on list
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Indran Chelvanayagam
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 9:49 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FAB Instructions
I can email these instructions (577Kb file) to anyone else if requested - I haven't
posted them here in deference to those with dial-up (Chris McG - you listening?)
Indran Chelvanayagam
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kraus
Sent: Sunday, 16 April 2006 6:29 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: FAB Instructions
Can someone tell me where the Filtered Airbox Instructions are located? The
FAB kit did not include any, and they are not in the FWF instructions that I have.
Does someone have a set the can scan and e-mail to me? Or enlighten me on where
I may find them?
Thanks
-Mike Kraus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Drag VHF Antenna |
Woops read where connector is attached to airframe....this should be enough....so
disregard
chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris , Susie Darcy
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Low Drag VHF Antenna
Most antenas need ground planes....the connector would not be enough.
Chris VK3GI 40388
----- Original Message -----
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Low Drag VHF Antenna
I believe the ground plane requirement is covered by the antenna coax connector
(included in the antenna kit) which is bolted to the aluminum part of the
airframe. There is no mention of ground plane in the sheet Van's included with
the antenna kit.
Jim
In a message dated 4/16/2006 1:55:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, taildragon(at)msn.com
writes:
Jim,
Thank you for the response. Very clever installation. One more question,
what did you do about a "ground plane"? Is one recommended?
Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Low Drag VHF Antenna
Roger,
I mounted the low drag VHF comm antenna in the canopy for use with my #2
radio. I have a bent whip on the belly of the plane for my #1 radio. I glassed
it to the inside of the canopy top, just aft of the right door. This antenna
is supposed to be vertical as much as possible and that is the best place I
could find an almost vertical 23" surface. After sanding, filling and painting
it just disappeared and looks great. I hooked it up to my VHF handheld and have
been listening to airline traffic in and out of Boise from my garage... as
far as I can tell it works great. Fiberglass does not blank VHF transmissions
- however I believe certain exterior paints (metallics?) might have some effect.
The reason I did not want to use this for my primary radio is the considerable
blanking you get from the aluminum portion of the fuselage, but it should
be fine for a backup.
Additionally, I plan on glassing the VOR antenna in the wingtip. That is
a horizontally polarized signal and should work great there. Plus there is much
less blanking from aluminum structures way out on the wing tip.
Pictures attached.
Jim
40134
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
jsmcgrew(at)aol.com
In a message dated 4/16/2006 12:35:32 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, taildragon(at)msn.com
writes:
Is anyone using the Van's Low Drag VHF Antenna? Any tips on installation?
Roger Standley
#40291 - fuselage, wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Standley" <taildragon(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Drag VHF Antenna |
Jim,
Makes sense that bolting the connector to the frame does the trick. I didn't receive
a sheet with the kit from Vans. Guess that is why the questions. Could you
please send a copy of it to me? Thanks a bunch. This list is great!
Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com<mailto:JSMcGrew(at)aol.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Low Drag VHF Antenna
I believe the ground plane requirement is covered by the antenna coax connector
(included in the antenna kit) which is bolted to the aluminum part of the airframe.
There is no mention of ground plane in the sheet Van's included with
the antenna kit.
Jim
In a message dated 4/16/2006 1:55:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, taildragon(at)msn.com
writes:
Jim,
Thank you for the response. Very clever installation. One more question, what
did you do about a "ground plane"? Is one recommended?
Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com<mailto:JSMcGrew(at)aol.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Low Drag VHF Antenna
Roger,
I mounted the low drag VHF comm antenna in the canopy for use with my #2
radio. I have a bent whip on the belly of the plane for my #1 radio. I glassed
it to the inside of the canopy top, just aft of the right door. This antenna
is supposed to be vertical as much as possible and that is the best place I could
find an almost vertical 23" surface. After sanding, filling and painting it
just disappeared and looks great. I hooked it up to my VHF handheld and have
been listening to airline traffic in and out of Boise from my garage... as far
as I can tell it works great. Fiberglass does not blank VHF transmissions -
however I believe certain exterior paints (metallics?) might have some effect.
The reason I did not want to use this for my primary radio is the considerable
blanking you get from the aluminum portion of the fuselage, but it should be
fine for a backup.
Additionally, I plan on glassing the VOR antenna in the wingtip. That is
a horizontally polarized signal and should work great there. Plus there is much
less blanking from aluminum structures way out on the wing tip.
Pictures attached.
Jim
40134
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
jsmcgrew(at)aol.com
In a message dated 4/16/2006 12:35:32 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, taildragon(at)msn.com
writes:
Is anyone using the Van's Low Drag VHF Antenna? Any tips on installation?
Roger Standley
#40291 - fuselage, wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Low Drag VHF Antenna |
| From: | "Conti, Rick" <rick.conti(at)boeing.com> |
I'll keep this short. The antenna ground plane is critical. If the antenna is mounted
on the rear of the fuselage the radiation pattern will greater In the forward
direction and visa versa.
Thank You
Rick Conti
The Boeing Company
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Standley
Sent: Sun Apr 16 16:09:17 2006
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Low Drag VHF Antenna
Jim,
Makes sense that bolting the connector to the frame does the trick. I didn't receive
a sheet with the kit from Vans. Guess that is why the questions. Could you
please send a copy of it to me? Thanks a bunch. This list is great!
Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Low Drag VHF Antenna
I believe the ground plane requirement is covered by the antenna coax connector
(included in the antenna kit) which is bolted to the aluminum part of the airframe.
There is no mention of ground plane in the sheet Van's included with
the antenna kit.
Jim
In a message dated 4/16/2006 1:55:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, taildragon(at)msn.com
writes:
Jim,
Thank you for the response. Very clever installation. One more question, what
did you do about a "ground plane"? Is one recommended?
Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Low Drag VHF Antenna
Roger,
I mounted the low drag VHF comm antenna in the canopy for use with my #2 radio.
I have a bent whip on the belly of the plane for my #1 radio. I glassed it
to the inside of the canopy top, just aft of the right door. This antenna is
supposed to be vertical as much as possible and that is the best place I could
find an almost vertical 23" surface. After sanding, filling and painting it just
disappeared and looks great. I hooked it up to my VHF handheld and have been
listening to airline traffic in and out of Boise from my garage... as far as
I can tell it works great. Fiberglass does not blank VHF transmissions - however
I believe certain exterior paints (metallics?) might have some effect. The
reason I did not want to use this for my primary radio is the considerable blanking
you get from the aluminum portion of the fuselage, but it should be fine
for a backup.
Additionally, I plan on glassing the VOR antenna in the wingtip. That is a horizontally
polarized signal and should work great there. Plus there is much less
blanking from aluminum structures way out on the wing tip.
Pictures attached.
Jim
40134
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
jsmcgrew(at)aol.com
In a message dated 4/16/2006 12:35:32 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, taildragon(at)msn.com
writes:
Is anyone using the Van's Low Drag VHF Antenna? Any tips on installation?
Roger Standley
#40291 - fuselage, wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Dombroski <f_dombroski(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RV 10 Empenage Kit For Sale |
HS complete and riveted. Rudder complete and ready to rivet. Remainder of empenage
and rear fuse section still in crateAll parts primed and conditioned properly.
Excellent workmanship. Easy assembly, but no time to build. Pictures available.
Serious inquiries. Located in north central NJ 07090. $3000
Frank
908-577-1625
f.dombroski(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | light aircraft shootdown |
Hope our RV10 builder in Ecuador will be careful on his return to the states
for OSH. Seems there is a news report of a Panamanian helicopter shooting
down a suspected drug runner and killing one of the two occupants. Looked at
the maps and see Ecuador is just south of Colombia and must cross Panamanian
airspace to reach the US.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tru Trak's RV10 |
Anybody know what kind of a prop they have on it? It's 3 blade is it an
MT? or Aero Composite?
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Kermanj" <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tru Trak's RV10 |
If it was at Sin/Fun, it is a three blade MT.
On 4/17/06, Deems Davis wrote:
>
> Anybody know what kind of a prop they have on it? It's 3 blade is it an
> MT? or Aero Composite?
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Fuse
> http://deemsrv10.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andrew Barker" <Andrew(at)trutrakap.com> |
It is aero composite.
Andrew Barker
General Manager
TruTrak Flight Systems
"You build it...We fly it!"
PH:479-751-0250 Ext. 222
www.trutrakap.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kermanj
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 5:33 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tru Trak's RV10
If it was at Sin/Fun, it is a three blade MT.
On 4/17/06, Deems Davis wrote:
>
> Anybody know what kind of a prop they have on it? It's 3 blade is it an
> MT? or Aero Composite?
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Fuse
> http://deemsrv10.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tru Trak's RV10 |
I talked with one of the TruTrak employees about the propeller. The
propeller purchased is the most expensive propeller available. Aero Composites.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 04/16/2006 10:05:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
deemsdavis(at)cox.net writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis
Anybody know what kind of a prop they have on it? It's 3 blade is it an
MT? or Aero Composite?
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Deutsch" <deutscht(at)rhwhotels.com> |
Jim Ayers, call me sometime, I have a long lost cousin named Jim Ayers.
I wonder?????????????
#40545
Tom Deutsch
Office 913 451-1222
Fax 913 451-6493
Cell 913 908-7752
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tru Trak's RV10
I talked with one of the TruTrak employees about the propeller. The
propeller purchased is the most expensive propeller available. Aero
Composites.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 04/16/2006 10:05:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
deemsdavis(at)cox.net writes:
=09
Anybody know what kind of a prop they have on it? It's 3 blade
is it an
MT? or Aero Composite?
=09
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Starting on firewall - gotchas? |
I'm starting part prep on my slow build firewall. Anyone have input on what
accouterments should be ordered and/or installed while there's still have good
access to everything? How 'bout conduit run locations and/or access panel
photos?
I visited a fellow -10 builder Saturday and he mentioned it might be a good
idea to fabricate a baggage floor panel to give access to the step bolts as
some have seen them loosen up over time.
Is there any concensus on installing the brake line bracket (or not) to allow
for parking brake? If a parking brake is installed then what sort of bracket is
required?
Cheers,
Jay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Hukill" <cjhukill(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | low drag antenna |
Jim
Could you send me pictures of your installation of the low drag antenna?
Thanks
Chris Hukill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | SafeAir static ports & tubing |
Is anyone flying using the SafeAir static ports? Searching the archives
revealed some interesting comments both pro and con. I like the promise of
one-stop-shopping, but would like to hear what others have to say before taking
the plunge.
Regards,
Jay
Message: #4747
Subject: Pitot lines - paper of plastic?
Date: Jan 18, 2006
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Personally, I am running SafeAir's tubing all the way to the pitot and the
static heads. Can't remember what it's made of but it is plastic. They use the
exact same tubing that is used for air brake lines so I'm guessing that they
will be more than sufficient. I mainly went with theirs because it came with
all of the connectors along with static ports. If I had to do it again I would
probably just use 1/4" polyethylene tubing that you can get from any home
improvement store. PEX (polyethylene) tubing, and it's fast on connectors, are
more than adequate and I have yet to have a leak in one with water pressures
around 100psi. Not to mention it is now being used as primary water lines in
homes and is more commonly used as the hot glycol tubing in radiant concrete
floors. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Schipper <mike(at)learningplanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SafeAir static ports & tubing |
I have installed the SafeAir1 kit in my RV-9A and I am glad I did.
When I had my pitot-static test done, the guy told me that the #1
problem with the static systems in RVs is the use of a pop rivet for
the static port. Mine are flush mounted (installed with proseal). My
pitot static system checked out perfectly the first time.
Additionally, the kit includes "quick connect" T-fittings, which make
maintenance an easy task. I like them a lot.
Mike Schipper
RV-9A - N63MS - Flying
www.my9a.com
On Apr 17, 2006, at 4:57 PM, Jay Brinkmeyer wrote:
>
>
> Is anyone flying using the SafeAir static ports? Searching the
> archives
> revealed some interesting comments both pro and con. I like the
> promise of
> one-stop-shopping, but would like to hear what others have to say
> before taking
> the plunge.
>
> Regards,
> Jay
>
>
> Message: #4747
> Subject: Pitot lines - paper of plastic?
> Date: Jan 18, 2006
> From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
>
> Personally, I am running SafeAir's tubing all the way to the
> pitot and the
> static heads. Can't remember what it's made of but it is plastic.
> They use the
> exact same tubing that is used for air brake lines so I'm guessing
> that they
> will be more than sufficient. I mainly went with theirs because it
> came with
> all of the connectors along with static ports. If I had to do it
> again I would
> probably just use 1/4" polyethylene tubing that you can get from
> any home
> improvement store. PEX (polyethylene) tubing, and it's fast on
> connectors, are
> more than adequate and I have yet to have a leak in one with water
> pressures
> around 100psi. Not to mention it is now being used as primary water
> lines in
> homes and is more commonly used as the hot glycol tubing in radiant
> concrete
> floors. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Fuselage
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Twenty Nine Palms |
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
We had a nice flight down. It was a little bumpy all of the way down.
We flew at 13,500 to Yerington for fuel and then at 11,500 into Bullhead
City for the night. We landed after dark. That MX20 terrain feature was
just the ticket with all of the mountains around that field. Short 50
min flight to TNP the next day. Leaving tomorrow am and flying on the
west side of the mountains this time. I have written down all of my
performance numbers and will post them when I get back. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 5:59 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Twenty Nine Palms
Stay well away from the leeward back burbles, the turbulence can be
teeth rattling. Be mindful of correct ridgeline crossing heading and
altitudes. I had a friend who was knocked out cold from a smack from
both an errant mike and baggage as we ventured through the pass. Early
AM is best.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Twenty Nine Palms
Nothing special about the airport itself, I took my multiegine training
nearby @ salton sea (below sea level) and we used it for some IFR
approaches. Depending upon your route takes you pass through the Banning
Pass, just north of Palm Springs, you can expect some bumps,
particularly if late in the day or if there is any wind (very common).
if you come down through the Calif inland valleys and come on the
backside of mtns you will avoid that and most of the Trafic associated
with the LAX and Ontario/Riverside approaches.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
Randy DeBauw wrote:
> I am heading to Twenty Nine Palms Ca. this Friday. Is there anyone who
> has used that airport? Any thing I should know about it. Thanks,
Randy
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Andrew, there are a lot of lurkers on this list that would love to here
the performance specs when Jim is ready. There has yet to be a
comprehensive posting of the MT 3 blade performance and many of the 2
blade Hartzell's are just as silent. This will be the hottest topic at
OSH '06.
I for one would like to hear how Jim likes it.
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Barker
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 6:59 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tru Trak's RV10
It is aero composite.
Andrew Barker
General Manager
TruTrak Flight Systems
"You build it...We fly it!"
PH:479-751-0250 Ext. 222
www.trutrakap.com
-----Original Message-----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tru Trak's RV10 |
The three blade MT is quiet, runs smooth and looks cool!!! What else do you
want!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tru Trak's RV10 |
Speed!
Mark Chamberlain wrote:
>
> The three blade MT is quiet, runs smooth and looks cool!!! What else
> do you want!!
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tru Trak's RV10 |
On Apr 17, 2006, at 6:38 PM, Mark Chamberlain wrote:
> <10flyer(at)verizon.net>
>
> The three blade MT is quiet, runs smooth and looks cool!!! What
> else do you want!!
>
Performance numbers.
-Sean #40303 (Closing Wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net> |
Anyone who's received a QB kit recently - did you get the $100 fuel caps or
the $105 locking fuel caps?
Rob #392
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Starting on firewall - gotchas? |
Jay,
Mike Howe and several others have what seems to be the standard for the parking
brake valve. We used the bracket supplied by Vans for I think is a fuel pump
on the O-540 vs. the IO-540 where you don't need the bracket. I did mine after
the firewall was complete but you can save time by not putting the supplied brake
line bracket in place then having to remove it and fill the holes.
Deem's Davis has some good slow build pic's on his site too along with some of
his "Gotchas" It's weird for me to check out his site because his project really
mirrors my project to include the areas he removed the plastic and the primer
color, now he is using the same dolly for the Fuselage so it looks even more
like my garage!
You can make some pretty nice rivets using the C-Frame to in effect back rivet
areas where it is impractical to use the back rivet plate. Run your brake lines
and transponder ant. (if your mounting it under the tunnel) after the bottom
skin is on prior to joining the mid section. There are a lot of areas to watch
out for over the next few chapters. Especially the riveting of the upper/lower
fwd longerons to the firewall brackets. There is critical edge distance that
clamping will prevent problems when you get to that step. If you going to use
metal eyeball penetrations for your engine controls, don't follow Van's "Drill
3 each 5/8" holes in the recess", wait until you get the eyeballs to get proper
spacing.
That all I can think of currently....I could go page by page with you and point
out a whole bunch of "and oh yeah on this step" stuff.
Rick S.
40185
Fuse/Finish
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Deutsch" <deutscht(at)rhwhotels.com> |
How about a Hartzel blended airfoil three blade?
Tom Deutsch
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Chamberlain
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tru Trak's RV10
<10flyer(at)verizon.net>
The three blade MT is quiet, runs smooth and looks cool!!! What else do
you
want!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: RV10-List Digest: Help on Engine Overhaul Options |
| From: | "Condon, Philip M." <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
My I/O 540 C4B5/E4B5 (Carb or FI - haven't decided yet) needs a IRAN
and test cell run. I had the engine overhauled by a local known engine
rebuilder A&I 5 years ago. The Gentleman has subsequently moved to
Florida and has passed away and I have little to no proper paperwork on
the work he did. He was in the process of moving when he did the
overhaul and his records were shipped along with the contents of his
hanger. If I sell the engine I have no real paperwork to go along with
it. I know the case, crank, and cam went out to Oklahoma because I did
the shipping and return to the mechanic (along with the paperwork....)
Can anyone recommend any options or shops that do good work ? The usual
suspects want over 20,000$ to IRAN the engine which I feel is a little
pricy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tru Trak's RV10 |
How about 90 pounds.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 04/18/2006 6:38:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
deutscht(at)rhwhotels.com writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tom Deutsch"
How about a Hartzel blended airfoil three blade?
Tom Deutsch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
Where are people coming down on the decision of sticking with Van's cowl
"hinge" design, or going with Cam-lok type cowl fasteners?
Of the flying folks, anyone like to comment on the ease of use of the
hinge fastener design?
Thanks,
TDT
40025
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net> |
| Subject: | Re: This thread is played out |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
I haven't yet started on my RV-10, but I can add to what Tim said about
the hinges. My RV-4 has the same type of cowling design, with piano
hinges. It has been flying since 1989 and the hinges have not shown any
appreciable wear. I concur with Tim that the bottom cowl is a real pain
to install by yourself, but with help it is not too bad. Unfortunately,
with the cheek cowls of the RV-4, it is not an option to leave the lower
cowl in place for oil changes - just not enough room to work.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Cowl fasteners
I was originally a big proponent of the concept of switching
to Camloc's. I didn't, because that would have slowed down
my build while trying to figure out exactly how I wanted to
do it, using the skybolt set, or smaller ones, and how many
and for how much cost. They aren't cheap, but they are
convenient.
Now that I've had my cowl on and off a few times, I can comment
better on the hinges though.
I'm very surprised at how easy it is to deal with the hinges.
The top ones you just loosen the holding bracket and pull
the pins, very quick. The horizontal ones are a simple
straight-in and out, very easy. The bottom cowl side pins
are also pretty simple. I did NOT go with lower pins,
but used nutplates and screws due to a large number of comments
on other RV's about how the eyelits wear on the hinges.
I'm glad I went the route I did for future issues.
So the cowl is very easy to remove and re-install, in regards
to the hinge pins. I do get a little black streaking coming
out my cowl seam from the aluminum of the hinges. I don't
know that it will get better, or worse, over time, but I'm
sure there will eventually be more play in the hinges. Long-term
I can see the hinges possibly being an issue for wear, and
replacing them might not be fun, and would maybe require a
cowl repaint. But I think it would be a long time to get
to that point of wear.
As far as the cowl going on and off, the lower cowl is
a real pain. There isn't much clearance to get it up and down,
with the spinner installed, and the FAB/inlet stuff isn't fun to
align and keeps the cowl from going on smoothly. It's a hard
job to do the lower cowl alone without banging things up....I
just did it yesterday. The top one is simple. I did
just change oil again too, with the lower cowl on. You have
to protect your hands from the hot crankcase and exhaust, but
it's definitely do-able with a quick-disconnect. I got a set
from ACS that had the valve and a matching latch-on hose
that works really well, and was pretty cheap I think.
For those deciding on props, you may have noticed the post
today regarding the 3 blade aerocomposite prop and it being
hard to remove and replace the lower cowl. I personally
haven't done a 3-blade, but I can definitely see the
issue. Even with my 2-blade, I have to make sure my
blades are horizontal or it can be a bear getting the cowl
off and on again. I can't even imagine how it would
be with 3 blades, although I'm sure it's something
that 3-blade owners will manage fine. I'm betting that
if 3-blade owners gave an honest statement, they'd
say that cowl removal sucks, but they love the prop. I'd
be suspicious if someone just says "no problem, easy"...
just call a spade a spade....doesn't mean the prop, or
the choice in props was bad. Just means there's a little
more story to go along with it.
So all in all, I'm more happy with the hinges than I
thought I'd be, although I recognize that some day
I might have to repaint the cowl after a hinge repair.
The cowl definitely looks the best with hinges, but
camlocs aren't awful looking either...just don't
try to paint them.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Working together. For life.(sm)
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
of the email by you is prohibited.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tru Trak's RV10 |
I like speed as well!! However, lets say the two blade is 10kts faster(??).
On a 3000nm trip the two blade guy will get there about an hour earlier.
That's nice, but the trade-offs you get with the three blade might not make
that 1 hr worth it. There are definately advantages/dissadvantages to both.
The question becomes prioritizing them, speed/weight/smoothness(on your 40k
engine)/ climb perf./ and of course looks. I will admit, taking the bottom
cowl off with the three blade is not easy. So far I am very happy with my
three blade MT. I know other guys are very happy with there blended
Hartzells. Fortunately for all of us, the airplane is still the best part of
this whole discussion. Cheers, Mark (55hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl fasteners |
Hey Tim, I have the Camloc system on my 10. The big advantage is that I can
easily put on/ take off top and bottom cowl by myself. I can also do it in a
matter of minutes. Disadvantages are obviously the cost, not as clean
looking, and almost impossible not to eventually get a little scalloping
between the camlocs around the firewall. I never have used pins before, but
I can tell you the other guy on the field with a 10 has them and needs help
putting the cowl on due to its size. He definately has a cleaner look!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tru Trak's RV10 |
Mark, what is the issue in removing the bottom cowl with a 3 bld prop?
Deems
Mark Chamberlain wrote:
>
> I like speed as well!! However, lets say the two blade is 10kts
> faster(??). On a 3000nm trip the two blade guy will get there about an
> hour earlier. That's nice, but the trade-offs you get with the three
> blade might not make that 1 hr worth it. There are definately
> advantages/dissadvantages to both. The question becomes prioritizing
> them, speed/weight/smoothness(on your 40k engine)/ climb perf./ and of
> course looks. I will admit, taking the bottom cowl off with the three
> blade is not easy. So far I am very happy with my three blade MT. I
> know other guys are very happy with there blended Hartzells.
> Fortunately for all of us, the airplane is still the best part of this
> whole discussion. Cheers, Mark (55hrs)
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tru Trak's RV10 |
Andrew, when you are talking about your speed; are you discussing a GPS--4
corner run or a ground track run? What type of test are you running...it could
help us understand the speed numbers.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Deutsch" <deutscht(at)rhwhotels.com> |
Guys, go to this web site regarding true airspeed testing. I've used it
for years. It's easy and very accurate.
http://reacomp.com/true_airspeed/
Tom Deutsch
Vice President
RHW Development and Construction Services
6704 W. 121st Street
Overland Park, Kansas 66209
Office 913 451-1222
Fax 913 451-6493
Cell 913 908-7752
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tru Trak's RV10
Andrew, when you are talking about your speed; are you discussing a
GPS--4 corner run or a ground track run? What type of test are you
running...it could help us understand the speed numbers.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andrew Barker" <Andrew(at)trutrakap.com> |
We did a 4 corner run.
Andrew Barker
General Manager
TruTrak Flight Systems
"You build it...We fly it!"
PH:479-751-0250 Ext. 222
www.trutrakap.com
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tru Trak's RV10
Andrew, when you are talking about your speed; are you discussing a GPS--4
corner run or a ground track run? What type of test are you running...it
could help us understand the speed numbers.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Throttle, Prop, and Mixture cable slack |
Fellow listers,
I'm working on my firewall foreward and since I had already made some decisions
before the firewall foreward kit was available, I can't use the stock locations
for my throttle and mixture cables. The prop cable went in to the stock location
nicely with the one hole eyeball fitting.
There seems to be just a little slack in that cable - just enough to allow flexibility
to keep it out of the way.
How much should I have? Upon measuring the cables that I got for the throttle
and mixture after putting them in where I could, I have 6" too much throttle cable
and 7" too much mixture cable. These are straight shot from the panel/console
to the eyeball passthrough the firewall. on the firewall side, I have sufficient
'Lycoming wet dog shake room'. I'm thinking on the aft side of the
firewall, I don't need much wiggle room other than to avoid stuff that could get
in the way and wear the cable.
Your thoughts please,
Ralph
RV6AQB N822AR @ N06 - fun firewall foreward!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl fasteners |
Take a peek at Randy Lervold's site, he is using the SKybolt C-loks. I am leaning
this way although not flying yet. He specs out the correct PN's of the recepticles,
studs etc. I think they are a better but albeit a tad more expensive
than the hinge route.
Heres a link:
http://www.romeolima.com/RV3works/Airframe/airframe.htm
I really like the way they look and should outlast the hinges without any problem.
Rick S.
40185
Fuse/Finish
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Starting on firewall - gotchas? |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
I have a guy here in Ecuador who makes little models of planes like Tim
Olson has of his -10. He has made them for us and the workmanship is first
rate, even down to the antennas. He has 3 -10=92s made, just needs to be
painted. If anybody is interest
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
HYPERLINK "mailto:jesse(at)itecusa.org"jesse(at)itecusa.org
HYPERLINK "http://www.itecusa.org"www.itecusa.org
352-465-4545
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Hertner" <effectus(at)rogers.com> |
Members,
Does anyone know the power required for the Vans flap motor?
Ideally I'd like to know the max steady state current draw in flight and the circuit
breaker rating?
Thanks
Dave Hertner #40164
Emp Complete
QB Fus and Wings Ordered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl fasteners |
Maybe this is specific to how my cowl worked out, but once I've posisitioned
the bottom half ( It sorta hangs on the baffle material around the air box)
I can easily fasten the top camloc on each side of the bottom cowl. It then
hangs by itself. Now it is a simple task to position the top and then go
through a sequence of fastening each camloc with a quarter turn. Of course I
still have the screws on either side of the spinner and under the cowl near
the fuselage. Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tru Trak's RV10 |
The cowl is so big that the top ( side ) edges of the bottom cowl have
trouble clearing the two blades facing 4 & 8 o'clock position. I put plastic
guards on those two blades before I pull the cowl to prevent damage to them.
I have now figured out to lengthen the slot in the bottom cowl over the nose
gear strut fairing to allow the cowl to slide up that fairing with more
clearance. This gives more clearance on the blades. I will eventually make a
plate to cover this elongated slot. I have seen several RV-9As with this
set-up. Mark.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
If you are using the flap positioning system they specify a 5A breaker however
I had already installed a 10A breaker. I have since returned the FPS to Van's
and purchased a DPDT switch from McMaster Carr which is momentary on for down
and on-off for up and center position off (flaps not moving).
----- Original Message -----
From: David Hertner
To: RV10-List(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 4:51 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Flap Motor
Members,
Does anyone know the power required for the Vans flap motor?
Ideally I'd like to know the max steady state current draw in flight and the
circuit breaker rating?
Thanks
Dave Hertner #40164
Emp Complete
QB Fus and Wings Ordered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com> |
Hi all,
Listers have previously reported some issues with 'impossible rivets' on the rear
floor pans - but I can't even get to that point. I am having some trouble
fitting the F-1016C rear floor pans. It seems a fair bit of force is required
to insert these panels to get the flanges past the seat belt attachand point.
Once they are in place, there does not appear to be any way that they will
come out - especially if there are any shop heads on the F1005A assembly. Has
anyone else had trouble here? Is there a trick to inserting/removing these?
thanks in advance
Ron
#187
fuse, finishing on the way.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PJ Seipel <seipel(at)seznam.cz> |
| Subject: | Re: Rear floor pans |
Just did those the other day. The key is to go slowly to avoid bending
them. If possible, have a helper to force apart the side ribs so you
can get the floor pans past the seatbelt anchors. To get them out, I
put cleco's into the #19 nutplate holes, and lifted it up enough to get
several into the #30 holes. I took some popsicle sticks and ground the
ends to make little wedges and used them along the sides and back to
help get the floor pan past the rivets and ribs.
PJ
RV-10 #40032
McGANN wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Listers have previously reported some issues with 'impossible rivets' on the
rear floor pans - but I can't even get to that point. I am having some trouble
fitting the F-1016C rear floor pans. It seems a fair bit of force is required
to insert these panels to get the flanges past the seat belt attachand point.
Once they are in place, there does not appear to be any way that they will
come out - especially if there are any shop heads on the F1005A assembly. Has
anyone else had trouble here? Is there a trick to inserting/removing these?
>
> thanks in advance
>
> Ron
> #187
> fuse, finishing on the way.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rear floor pans |
they lift out with difficulty from the rear; use several pieces of .020
aluminum strips so that the rear flange slip over the rear spar forward
edge. Make sure you pop the holes for the forward flange through the main
spar web before removing them now; that way you will be able to clean and
deburr before final rear floor installation.
----- Original Message -----
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 4:17 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Rear floor pans
Hi all,
Listers have previously reported some issues with 'impossible rivets' on the
rear floor pans - but I can't even get to that point. I am having some
trouble fitting the F-1016C rear floor pans. It seems a fair bit of force
is required to insert these panels to get the flanges past the seat belt
attachand point. Once they are in place, there does not appear to be any
way that they will come out - especially if there are any shop heads on the
F1005A assembly. Has anyone else had trouble here? Is there a trick to
inserting/removing these?
thanks in advance
Ron
#187
fuse, finishing on the way.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tru Trak's RV10 |
You're right!! It was a wag! I was just trying to say that I personally
don't care about top speed all that much. I should have known that some of
you more technically minded people would call me on it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV Assembly Workshop |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
As a prospective RV-10 builder, I have a question of this group: Have
any of you taken the EAA Sportair Workshop on RV Assembly, and if so,
how helpful was it? I've built an airplane before, but have not done a
lot of sheetmetal work, and my wife has only bucked a handful of rivets.
I can teach her, but wondered if this group recommends the workshops or
to just dive in and get started.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
Working together. For life.(sm)
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
of the email by you is prohibited.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Hall <phil(at)asibuildings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Assembly Workshop |
Jack,
I built a couple of wood, tube and fabric planes before the 10 but had not
done much metal work. I took the workshop and came out feeling very
comfortable with my new found metal skills and went to work.
Phil
40122, interior and final plumbing
>
>As a prospective RV-10 builder, I have a question of this group: Have
>any of you taken the EAA Sportair Workshop on RV Assembly, and if so,
>how helpful was it? I've built an airplane before, but have not done a
>lot of sheetmetal work, and my wife has only bucked a handful of rivets.
>I can teach her, but wondered if this group recommends the workshops or
>to just dive in and get started.
>
>Jack Phillips
>Raleigh, NC
>
>Working together. For life.(sm)
>_________________________________________________
>
>This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the
>
>Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands -
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rich & Karol Hansen" <karolamy(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Rudder Position/Strobe Mounting Plate |
Has anyone come across a mounting plate or bracket that will fit inside the rudder
fairing and secure the A500 Position/Strobe? I had this same problem on my
6A ten years ago and DID find one! It has worked great, was easy to install
and comes with the two nuts welded to it to secure the A500 assembly. Cannot
find receipt where I got it - was only 10 or 15 dollars. Any help would be
appreciated. Rich Hansen
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | rear wing spar dimpled? |
| From: | "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> |
ok all, here's a dumb question...
i'm off all week, working on the airplane. i'm reading and re-reading the directions
for the bottom wing skin install, and i don't see anywhere where it says
to dimple the rear wing spar. is this just one of those things that they expect
reasonably intelligent people to figure out on their own? what does that
say about me?
on a lighter note, we finished the second fuel tank yesterday! i could positively
freak out with joy. by the by, i used the Skysports capacitive fuel senders,
and they look like they'll work great. i've got them bent so they go diagonally
through the inboard two bays, so they should get a pretty accurate measurement.
cj
#40410
wings
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | bottom wing skin overlap |
| From: | "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> |
while i'm on the subject -
i'm looking at the overlap in the bottom wing skins and wondering if i really want
to work the joint as fully as i did the top skins. anyone have any thoughts
or opinions on this?
cj
#40410
wings
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Position/Strobe Mounting Plate |
Rich,
I made a mounting plate from .040 scrap and used nutserts ( #4 ) in the plate
corresponding to the mounting holes in the light. Epoxied the plate onto the
rudder fairing. Looks like it will work great! Mounting plate fits just inside
the outer shell of the light.
John Hasbrouck #40264
fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Assembly Workshop |
>
> As a prospective RV-10 builder, I have a question of this group: Have
> any of you taken the EAA Sportair Workshop on RV Assembly, and if so,
> how helpful was it? I've built an airplane before, but have not done a
> lot of sheetmetal work, and my wife has only bucked a handful of rivets.
> I can teach her, but wondered if this group recommends the workshops or
> to just dive in and get started.
Maybe I get a minute of fame here for saying that Dan Checkoway and I took the
RV building workshop together back in 2001 (even parked my C182 next to his Mooney
when we both flew into Corona for the event.)
I was already about a month into building the -7 and have to say I didn't really
learn that many new manual skills, though it was a great place to ask newbie
questions. However, the best part was that I took my wife along and it made
a dramatic difference in her ownership of the project and willingness to serve
as "Rosie the Riveter." For that alone it was worth the price of admission.
-Dan Masys
#40448
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | RV Assembly Workshop |
I did the regular sheetmetal workshop instead of the RV one. Good class.
I've taught my wife to buck rivets so you're already way ahead....
Rob #392
Awaiting QB ship.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 11:55 AM
Subject: RV10-List: RV Assembly Workshop
As a prospective RV-10 builder, I have a question of this group: Have
any of you taken the EAA Sportair Workshop on RV Assembly, and if so,
how helpful was it? I've built an airplane before, but have not done a
lot of sheetmetal work, and my wife has only bucked a handful of rivets.
I can teach her, but wondered if this group recommends the workshops or
to just dive in and get started.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
Working together. For life.(sm)
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands -
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Hertner" <effectus(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Position/Strobe Mounting Plate |
Talk to David Czachorowski
I hear that he is looking into supplying this type of bracket.
Dave Hertner
----- Original Message -----
From: Rich & Karol Hansen
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 1:39 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Rudder Position/Strobe Mounting Plate
Has anyone come across a mounting plate or bracket that will fit inside the rudder
fairing and secure the A500 Position/Strobe? I had this same problem on
my 6A ten years ago and DID find one! It has worked great, was easy to install
and comes with the two nuts welded to it to secure the A500 assembly. Cannot
find receipt where I got it - was only 10 or 15 dollars. Any help would be
appreciated. Rich Hansen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net> |
Anyone willing to relate how much they paid to get their panels done for
them? Thinking about using Stein or others and wondering what all of you
have paid..
Rob #392
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jay Rowe" <jfrjr(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Position/Strobe Mounting Plate |
Rich and Karol: All I did was mount the strobe/nav. lights using the screws supplied
but then epoxyed two small lock nuts inside the fairing after screwing
them down semi-tight. Pulled the screws after partial setup of the fiberglass/epoxy---after
drying can now remove/replace the fixture at will. Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: Rich & Karol Hansen
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 1:39 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Rudder Position/Strobe Mounting Plate
Has anyone come across a mounting plate or bracket that will fit inside the rudder
fairing and secure the A500 Position/Strobe? I had this same problem on
my 6A ten years ago and DID find one! It has worked great, was easy to install
and comes with the two nuts welded to it to secure the A500 assembly. Cannot
find receipt where I got it - was only 10 or 15 dollars. Any help would be
appreciated. Rich Hansen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)cox.net> |
Stein charges $5,000.00 for doing a panel, unless he has gone up on his price,
and worth every penny.
Russ Daves
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert G. Wright
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 6:10 PM
Subject: RV10-List: panel
Anyone willing to relate how much they paid to get their panels done for them?
Thinking about using Stein or others and wondering what all of you have paid..
Rob #392
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GenGrumpy(at)aol.com |
Rob - you'll get what you pay for.
I paid about $55k for mine from Avionics Systems. Think they have a picture
of mine posted now. First time I've ever held a Lexus in my hands......
But, I designed and got what I asked for. Could not have done this same
panel myself.
Grumpy
no not post
In a message dated 4/19/2006 6:15:28 PM Central Standard Time,
armywrights(at)adelphia.net writes:
Anyone willing to relate how much they paid to get their panels done for
them? Thinking about using Stein or others and wondering what all of you have
paid
=E2=80=A6.
Rob #392
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
Rob,
The price to get the panel done will vary all over the place depending on the equipment
ordered, etc. etc.
I made up my equipment list and then sent the same email request for quotes to
all the major shops so that I could compare apples to apples.
The bids were amazingly close, so I ended up going with the folks I thought were
most experienced and that I felt most comfortable with.
I think any of the established major shops would do fine. You will be working
with them extensively before the panel is done so look for folks you can work
comfortably with.
do not archieve
Dick Sipp
40065
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert G. Wright
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 7:10 PM
Subject: RV10-List: panel
Anyone willing to relate how much they paid to get their panels done for them?
Thinking about using Stein or others and wondering what all of you have paid..
Rob #392
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LIKE2LOOP(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV Assembly Workshop |
In a message dated 4/19/06 1:04:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com writes:
wondered if this group recommends the workshops or
to just dive in and get started.
I spent an hour last year at Sun n Fun in the metal workshop tent,
doing a few rivets, flush rivets, removing rivets (that is a good one to learn),
then get started. The kit is excellent~!. I built the tool box kit from
Van's.... fun project to do, but just get started after you drive a few practice
rivets. Van's send you scrap metal in the empennage kit. Drill lots of holes in
it and de bur, then rivet with the size you will use for practice. Us the
rivet check gauge to verify that your shop head is coming out the right size.
Then drill a few rivets out for practice. Simple!
Steve
Stephen Blank RV-10 Builder / Cessna 170B flyer
766 SE River Lane
Port St. Lucie, FL 34983
772-475-5556 cell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JSMcGrew(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: RV Assembly Workshop |
I went to Synergy Air's builder's basic course (1 day) and would highly
recommend it. I had started on the tail kit when I went and was doing fine. After
the class, however, my confidence level, workmanship and speed went up 10
fold. There are so many little tricks you learn that can make an otherwise
tedious/painful/difficult job a piece of cake.
I also attended the 2 day fiberglass and painting class given at Synergy.
That has certainly helped me get through the canopy and cowling work rapidly.
I think I have made back all the time and money that I invested in the
classes.
Jim
40134
In a message dated 4/19/2006 8:22:35 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, LIKE2L
OOP(at)aol.com writes:
In a message dated 4/19/06 1:04:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com writes:
wondered if this group recommends the workshops or
to just dive in and get started.
I spent an hour last year at Sun n Fun in the metal workshop tent,
doing a few rivets, flush rivets, removing rivets (that is a good one to learn),
then get started. The kit is excellent~!. I built the tool box kit from
Van's.... fun project to do, but just get started after you drive a few
practice rivets. Van's send you scrap metal in the empennage kit. Drill lots
of
holes in it and de bur, then rivet with the size you will use for practice. Us
the rivet check gauge to verify that your shop head is coming out the right
size. Then drill a few rivets out for practice. Simple!
Steve
Stephen Blank RV-10 Builder / Cessna 170B flyer
766 SE River Lane
Port St. Lucie, FL 34983
772-475-5556 cell
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV Assembly Workshop |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Thanks for all the input. I think we'll try to go to the RV Assembly
workshop they are offering in OSH the last week of August. We'll run up
there in the RV-4 and swing by Mackinac Island on the way home for Karen
to visit a friend. I like the idea of getting her to feel ownership in
the RV-10 project (although every time we take a long trip in the RV-4
she asks "when are we going to build a bigger airplane?"). If I can
pick up just one tip or technique that I don't know already it is
probably worth it.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 11:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV Assembly Workshop
I went to Synergy Air's builder's basic course (1 day) and would highly
recommend it. I had started on the tail kit when I went and was doing
fine. After the class, however, my confidence level, workmanship and
speed went up 10 fold. There are so many little tricks you learn that
can make an otherwise tedious/painful/difficult job a piece of cake.
I also attended the 2 day fiberglass and painting class given at
Synergy. That has certainly helped me get through the canopy and cowling
work rapidly.
I think I have made back all the time and money that I invested in the
classes.
Jim
40134
In a message dated 4/19/2006 8:22:35 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
LIKE2LOOP(at)aol.com writes:
In a message dated 4/19/06 1:04:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com writes:
wondered if this group recommends the workshops or
to just dive in and get started.
I spent an hour last year at Sun n Fun in the metal
workshop tent, doing a few rivets, flush rivets, removing rivets (that
is a good one to learn), then get started. The kit is excellent~!. I
built the tool box kit from Van's.... fun project to do, but just get
started after you drive a few practice rivets. Van's send you scrap
metal in the empennage kit. Drill lots of holes in it and de bur, then
rivet with the size you will use for practice. Us the rivet check gauge
to verify that your shop head is coming out the right size. Then drill a
few rivets out for practice. Simple!
Steve
=09
Stephen Blank RV-10 Builder / Cessna 170B flyer
766 SE River Lane
Port St. Lucie, FL 34983
=09
772-475-5556 cell
Working together. For life.(sm)
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
of the email by you is prohibited.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jwik <jwik(at)crary.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Assembly Workshop |
With no RV builders in my area as a resource, I obtained some tools and
reference materials prior to ordering my kit to self-instruct. Just
prior to my tail kit arriving I went to the Sportair Workshop in Oshkosh
for the sheet metal class. I learned some very useful techniques and
tips, and the biggest value was reinforcing what I had already
learned, and the confidence that I wasn't launching into it with some
terrible practices.
While there I heard great reviews for the Electrical workshop and will
probably look for an opportunity to attend that as well.
By the way, a recent post had someone out east trying to sell their
tail kit. FYI
Phillips, Jack wrote:
>
>As a prospective RV-10 builder, I have a question of this group: Have
>any of you taken the EAA Sportair Workshop on RV Assembly, and if so,
>how helpful was it? I've built an airplane before, but have not done a
>lot of sheetmetal work, and my wife has only bucked a handful of rivets.
>I can teach her, but wondered if this group recommends the workshops or
>to just dive in and get started.
>
>Jack Phillips
>Raleigh, NC
>
>Working together. For life.(sm)
>_________________________________________________
>
proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
of the email by you is prohibited.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV Assembly Workshop |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Yeah, I saw that post about the tail kit for sale. Price was very close
to the kit price, and I would rather just do it myself than have to deal
with someone else's workmanship. When I was looking for an RV-4 to buy
I looked at 7 airplanes before I found one with really good workmanship.
I learned to look at the tail since that is always the first part built
and any flaws usually show there. I figure building the tail will give
me the experience necessary to tackle the wings and fuselage.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jwik
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV Assembly Workshop
With no RV builders in my area as a resource, I obtained some tools and
reference materials prior to ordering my kit to self-instruct. Just
prior to my tail kit arriving I went to the Sportair Workshop in Oshkosh
for the sheet metal class. I learned some very useful techniques and
tips, and the biggest value was reinforcing what I had already
learned, and the confidence that I wasn't launching into it with some
terrible practices.
While there I heard great reviews for the Electrical workshop and will
probably look for an opportunity to attend that as well.
By the way, a recent post had someone out east trying to sell their
tail kit. FYI
Phillips, Jack wrote:
>
>As a prospective RV-10 builder, I have a question of this group: Have
>any of you taken the EAA Sportair Workshop on RV Assembly, and if so,
>how helpful was it? I've built an airplane before, but have not done a
>lot of sheetmetal work, and my wife has only bucked a handful of
rivets.
>I can teach her, but wondered if this group recommends the workshops or
>to just dive in and get started.
>
>Jack Phillips
>Raleigh, NC
>
>Working together. For life.(sm)
>_________________________________________________
>
>This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete
>
>Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Working together. For life.(sm)
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
of the email by you is prohibited.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 540 power settings |
Just some general information on three different 540 power settings.
This information was obtained in an unfinished (unpainted and some fairings
missing) RV-10 with a 3 blade MT Propeller.
The data was taken at 8,000' density altitude, at full throttle (around 23'
MP) and leaned consistently:
2500 RPM 20 gph (Van's standard cruise performance power setting)
2300 RPM 15 gph - airspeed was 1 knot faster than at the 2500 RPM setting.
2100 RPM 12 gph - airspeed was 6 knots slower than at the 2500 RPM setting.
Making the following assumptions: 60 gallons of fuel usable less a 1/2 hour
reserve, and using Van's Aircraft RV-10 cruise performance of about 200 mph.
At 2500 RPM, there is 2 1/2 hours of fuel available for a range of 500 miles.
At 2300 RPM, there is 3 1/2 hours of fuel available for a range of just over
700 miles.
At 2100 RPM, there is 4 1/2 hours of fuel available for a range of almost
870 miles.
Or . . .
At 2100 RPM, after flying for 2 1/2 hours and covering 480 plus miles, you
would still have about half of your fuel remaining.
According to MT Propeller (for a "natural composite" MT Propeller); running
a Lycoming 200 RPM below the manifold pressure is acceptable.
The 2100 RPM 23" MP power setting would be an acceptable cruise power
setting with a "natural composite" MT Propeller.
A commonly accepted lowest RPM power setting for an aluminum blade propeller
would be 2300 RPM at 23" MP. (For anyone that is interested, MT Propeller
does manufacture aluminum blade propellers.)
Regards,
Jim Ayers
PS A reduction in airspeed with a higher RPM is expected. As an
approximation, the RPM increase is linear, but the horsepower increase requirement
is at
a power of 2.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer(at)verizon.net> |
I did most of the wiring in my panel as far as switches and breakers. I
installed an Approach Hub system after having the panel cut and painted. I
was very happy with the simplicity. Tell them what equiptment you have, they
will send the harnesses and Hub. One end goes in the avionics tray, the
other in the hub. Just hook up PWR/GND/DIMR and you're good to go!!. I think
the whole set-up was about $1800. Just another way to get it done.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
For those who aren't there yet, it wouldn't hurt to plan ahead on these. We
put them in and drilled the holes when we were clecoing the bottom skins, so
it was easy to get them out by taking the bottom skin off. Then, when you
get to the point where you need to put them in, you won't have to take them
out again, just drop (read - carefully force) them in and rivet them.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of PJ Seipel
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 7:10 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rear floor pans
Just did those the other day. The key is to go slowly to avoid bending
them. If possible, have a helper to force apart the side ribs so you
can get the floor pans past the seatbelt anchors. To get them out, I
put cleco's into the #19 nutplate holes, and lifted it up enough to get
several into the #30 holes. I took some popsicle sticks and ground the
ends to make little wedges and used them along the sides and back to
help get the floor pan past the rivets and ribs.
PJ
RV-10 #40032
McGANN wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Listers have previously reported some issues with 'impossible rivets' on
the rear floor pans - but I can't even get to that point. I am having some
trouble fitting the F-1016C rear floor pans. It seems a fair bit of force
is required to insert these panels to get the flanges past the seat belt
attachand point. Once they are in place, there does not appear to be any
way that they will come out - especially if there are any shop heads on the
F1005A assembly. Has anyone else had trouble here? Is there a trick to
inserting/removing these?
>
> thanks in advance
>
> Ron
> #187
> fuse, finishing on the way.
>
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | "Dual" take-off fuel pump fitting for pressure sender |
Folks,
I'm looking for a dual fitting that allows the fuel to flow and allows me to either
attach my sender or attach another hose to the firewall mounted manifold...I've
seen these - where do they come from and what's the part number.
Anyone have any pictures?
Thanks,
Ralph
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net> |
On Apr 20, 2006, at 11:22 AM, LIKE2LOOP(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 4/20/06 9:07 am, Tim(at)MyRV10.com writes:
> << . I'm kind of surprised that with the -10 everyone just
> assumes they have to have someone build is as opposed to doing it
> theirself. >>
>
> Tim,
>
> Thanks for chiming in. I am planning to build my own panel...all
> the posts
> were making wonder if there was some mystery I was unaware of.....
>
>
> Steve
>
Well, some of us have experience with metal work. Some of us have
experience with fiberglass. Some of us have experience with wiring.
Some of us have experience with engines. Some have experience with
painting. The lucky few have experience with all the above or have a
close resource who has experience to oversee.
And some of us have experience with only one of the above and feel
more comfortable paying someone else to do it.
To each his own.
-Sean #40303
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <toaster73(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: panel (homebuilders?) |
I too am a bit surprised about all the farming out, in everything for that
matter, not just panels. Maybe the "do it all guys" stay quiet. I guess I
feel like the poor guy with lots of time. I may end up with 5 years to get
my plane done which is ok - I am a tinkerer and I want to know how every bit
of that airplane was put together/designed. I will be doing my own
interior, panel/wiring, some of the engine (depending on what ECI might put
out), painting, and slow build kit. I am even utilizing the second
hand/salvage yards when possible ($75 heated pitot probe and homemade
mount). I will probably come up with a copy of that new overhead vent/light
system rather than pay the $1200. I sold my 1951 Bonanza to try and escape
some of the "aviation pricing". I was also thinking of finding that same
1951 Bonanza overhead ventilation scoop in salvage to use on the 10. I like
making and fixing stuff and I like saying "I did that". I think the kit
industry has really made the airplane building so much more accessible to
the non-geeks with a willingness to part with money more than time. It is
all supposed to be a learning experience and in todays industry there are
opportunities to decide just how much you want to learn. Some have time
some have money. Whatever works .
Chris Lucas
#40072
starting fuse and ending wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: panel
>
> Not trying to cut any business from any of the panel builders, but...
> I thought before when people posted their bios that there was a
> pretty high percentage of geek builders on the list.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 540 power settings |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Jim, its great to have hard numbers.
John - KUAO
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 8:10 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 540 power settings
Just some general information on three different 540 power settings.
This information was obtained in an unfinished (unpainted and some
fairings missing) RV-10 with a 3 blade MT Propeller.
The data was taken at 8,000' density altitude, at full throttle (around
23' MP) and leaned consistently:
2500 RPM 20 gph (Van's standard cruise performance power setting)
2300 RPM 15 gph - airspeed was 1 knot faster than at the 2500 RPM
setting.
2100 RPM 12 gph - airspeed was 6 knots slower than at the 2500 RPM
setting.
Making the following assumptions: 60 gallons of fuel usable less a 1/2
hour reserve, and using Van's Aircraft RV-10 cruise performance of about
200 mph.
At 2500 RPM, there is 2 1/2 hours of fuel available for a range of 500
miles.
At 2300 RPM, there is 3 1/2 hours of fuel available for a range of just
over 700 miles.
At 2100 RPM, there is 4 1/2 hours of fuel available for a range of
almost 870 miles.
Or . . .
At 2100 RPM, after flying for 2 1/2 hours and covering 480 plus miles,
you would still have about half of your fuel remaining.
According to MT Propeller (for a "natural composite" MT Propeller);
running a Lycoming 200 RPM below the manifold pressure is acceptable.
The 2100 RPM 23" MP power setting would be an acceptable cruise power
setting with a "natural composite" MT Propeller.
A commonly accepted lowest RPM power setting for an aluminum blade
propeller would be 2300 RPM at 23" MP. (For anyone that is interested,
MT Propeller does manufacture aluminum blade propellers.)
Regards,
Jim Ayers
PS A reduction in airspeed with a higher RPM is expected. As an
approximation, the RPM increase is linear, but the horsepower increase
requirement is at a power of 2.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | RV Assembly Workshop |
If you've done that one then you should be good to go. It's easy, and plans
are great. There are some shortcuts to take that most of us will take about
off line.
Bob K
Working on engine
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Masys
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV Assembly Workshop
>
> As a prospective RV-10 builder, I have a question of this group: Have
> any of you taken the EAA Sportair Workshop on RV Assembly, and if so,
> how helpful was it? I've built an airplane before, but have not done a
> lot of sheetmetal work, and my wife has only bucked a handful of rivets.
> I can teach her, but wondered if this group recommends the workshops or
> to just dive in and get started.
Maybe I get a minute of fame here for saying that Dan Checkoway and I took
the RV building workshop together back in 2001 (even parked my C182 next to
his Mooney when we both flew into Corona for the event.)
I was already about a month into building the -7 and have to say I didn't
really learn that many new manual skills, though it was a great place to ask
newbie questions. However, the best part was that I took my wife along and
it made a dramatic difference in her ownership of the project and
willingness to serve as "Rosie the Riveter." For that alone it was worth
the price of admission.
-Dan Masys
#40448
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 540 power settings |
Jim:
Are the RPM limits you refer to in the second half of your message MT limits for
their propellers?
The Lycoming IO-540-D series charts from the engine operators manual provide much
broader RPM vs. manifold pressure limits.
Above 5500' there is no manifold pressure limitation for any RPM. Below 5500'
manifold pressure limits are shown; as an example,
at 1800 RPM 24 inches of manifold pressure is the limitation. At sea level and
2200 RPM the manifold pressure limit is 28.5", above 2200 RPM there is no manifold
pressure limit.
These charts show that the old wives tale of not operating "oversquare" is mostly
legend and not a problem as far as Lycoming is concerned.
While I am not suggesting that operating continuously at a limitation is prudent,
very efficient operation does occur at full throttle settings and relatively
low RPMs. An added benefit is smoother and quieter operation as well.
It would be a shame if MT placed more restrictive limits on engine operation than
does the engine manufacturer.
Dick Sipp
40065
According to MT Propeller (for a "natural composite" MT Propeller); running a
Lycoming 200 RPM below the manifold pressure is acceptable.
The 2100 RPM 23" MP power setting would be an acceptable cruise power setting
with a "natural composite" MT Propeller.
A commonly accepted lowest RPM power setting for an aluminum blade propeller
would be 2300 RPM at 23" MP. (For anyone that is interested, MT Propeller does
manufacture aluminum blade propellers.)
Regards,
Jim Ayers
PS A reduction in airspeed with a higher RPM is expected. As an approximation,
the RPM increase is linear, but the horsepower increase requirement is at a
power of 2.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | flap system install |
just finishing the flap system install.
a couple of pointers
Ream all weldment holes to size: AN3 =3D #12 ream AN4 =3D .249 ream
although the plans show installing by inserting through the rear floor area; they
can be inserted more easily via the external hole and pushed to the center.
The outer skin hole should be deburred and smooth. The key is marking all parts
to location and orientation. then wax the torque tubes and insert.
with reference to the flap horn bolts. leave the tunnel parts together but don't
install tunnel bolts. install the flap horn outboard bolt first after sliding
the torque tube as far into the center weldment as possible. then a wrench underneath
and a ratchet extension will allow tightening. Then position the torque
tube properly; the other bolt can be reached with a ratchet extension.vertically
when drilling the flap motor for safety wire you will probably need to drill vertically
about .050 and then horizontally to meet the vertical hole.
lastly this applies to all corrosion treatment of tubes. I clean the inside with
an acetone rinse then spray primer in the end. on the other end is an operating
shop vacuum. the primer is quickly distributed down the pipe.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Sargeant" <k5wiv(at)amsat.org> |
| Subject: | flap system install |
This could be a dangerous practice. At least with my shop vac any vapors
which make it through the filter (and the filter is designed to trap
particles, not vapor) will be exposed to the motor brushes. This could
result in a rather large bang!
Jack & Cecilia Sargeant
1127 Patricia St.
Wichita, KS 67208-2642
316/682-5268
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 10:54 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: flap system install
just finishing the flap system install.
a couple of pointers
Ream all weldment holes to size: AN3 = #12 ream AN4 = .249 ream
although the plans show installing by inserting through the rear floor
area; they can be inserted more easily via the external hole and pushed to
the center. The outer skin hole should be deburred and smooth. The key is
marking all parts to location and orientation. then wax the torque tubes and
insert.
with reference to the flap horn bolts. leave the tunnel parts together but
don't install tunnel bolts. install the flap horn outboard bolt first after
sliding the torque tube as far into the center weldment as possible. then a
wrench underneath and a ratchet extension will allow tightening. Then
position the torque tube properly; the other bolt can be reached with a
ratchet extension.vertically
when drilling the flap motor for safety wire you will probably need to
drill vertically about .050 and then horizontally to meet the vertical
hole.
lastly this applies to all corrosion treatment of tubes. I clean the
inside with an acetone rinse then spray primer in the end. on the other end
is an operating shop vacuum. the primer is quickly distributed down the
pipe.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flap system install |
Not true. Even with the most volatile stuff out there, there is so much
air that the mixture is too lean to ignite. If I'm not totally mistaken
.... 'Mythbusters' also came to the same conclusion. But having said
that, all that paint in the vacuum cleaner can't be a good thing either.
Linn
Jack Sargeant wrote:
> This could be a dangerous practice. At least with my shop vac any
> vapors which make it through the filter (and the filter is designed to
> trap particles, not vapor) will be exposed to the motor brushes. This
> could result in a rather large bang!
>
>
> Jack & Cecilia Sargeant
> 1127 Patricia St.
> Wichita, KS 67208-2642
> 316/682-5268
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David
> McNeill
> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 10:54 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: flap system install
>
> just finishing the flap system install.
>
> a couple of pointers
>
> Ream all weldment holes to size: AN3 = #12 ream AN4 = .249 ream
>
> although the plans show installing by inserting through the rear
> floor area; they can be inserted more easily via the external hole
> and pushed to the center. The outer skin hole should be deburred
> and smooth. The key is marking all parts to location and
> orientation. then wax the torque tubes and insert.
>
> with reference to the flap horn bolts. leave the tunnel parts
> together but don't install tunnel bolts. install the flap horn
> outboard bolt first after sliding the torque tube as far into the
> center weldment as possible. then a wrench underneath and a
> ratchet extension will allow tightening. Then position the torque
> tube properly; the other bolt can be reached with a ratchet
> extension.vertically
>
> when drilling the flap motor for safety wire you will probably
> need to drill vertically about .050 and then horizontally to meet
> the vertical hole.
>
> lastly this applies to all corrosion treatment of tubes. I clean
> the inside with an acetone rinse then spray primer in the end. on
> the other end is an operating shop vacuum. the primer is quickly
> distributed down the pipe.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Marlow <sam.marlow(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flap system install |
Hey guy's, you can totally destroy a perfectly good vacuum, and scare
the crap out of anyone within a 100ft or so, with flammable vapors.
Don't ask me how I know!
Sam
Engine
linn Walters wrote:
> Not true. Even with the most volatile stuff out there, there is so
> much air that the mixture is too lean to ignite. If I'm not totally
> mistaken .... 'Mythbusters' also came to the same conclusion. But
> having said that, all that paint in the vacuum cleaner can't be a good
> thing either.
> Linn
>
>
> Jack Sargeant wrote:
>
>> This could be a dangerous practice. At least with my shop vac any
>> vapors which make it through the filter (and the filter is designed
>> to trap particles, not vapor) will be exposed to the motor brushes.
>> This could result in a rather large bang!
>>
>>
>> Jack & Cecilia Sargeant
>> 1127 Patricia St.
>> Wichita, KS 67208-2642
>> 316/682-5268
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David
>> McNeill
>> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 10:54 PM
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: flap system install
>>
>> just finishing the flap system install.
>>
>> a couple of pointers
>>
>> Ream all weldment holes to size: AN3 = #12 ream AN4 = .249 ream
>>
>> although the plans show installing by inserting through the rear
>> floor area; they can be inserted more easily via the external
>> hole and pushed to the center. The outer skin hole should be
>> deburred and smooth. The key is marking all parts to location and
>> orientation. then wax the torque tubes and insert.
>>
>> with reference to the flap horn bolts. leave the tunnel parts
>> together but don't install tunnel bolts. install the flap horn
>> outboard bolt first after sliding the torque tube as far into the
>> center weldment as possible. then a wrench underneath and a
>> ratchet extension will allow tightening. Then position the torque
>> tube properly; the other bolt can be reached with a ratchet
>> extension.vertically
>>
>> when drilling the flap motor for safety wire you will probably
>> need to drill vertically about .050 and then horizontally to
>> meet the vertical hole.
>>
>> lastly this applies to all corrosion treatment of tubes. I clean
>> the inside with an acetone rinse then spray primer in the end. on
>> the other end is an operating shop vacuum. the primer is quickly
>> distributed down the pipe.
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | flap system install |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Sure, and aluminum and steel grinding dust won't ignite cause there is
too much air. Ask Hoyt Fleming of Boise how his brand new Lancair ES
was burned to waste parts by just sanding. You need to do further
research and not hold Myth Busters in such high esteem.
That phrase " I didn't know it would do that.... Or Here, hold my beer
and watch this" come to mind.
John - $00.02
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 5:47 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: flap system install
Not true. Even with the most volatile stuff out there, there is so much
air that the mixture is too lean to ignite. If I'm not totally mistaken
.... 'Mythbusters' also came to the same conclusion. But having said
that, all that paint in the vacuum cleaner can't be a good thing either.
Linn
Jack Sargeant wrote:
This could be a dangerous practice. At least with my shop vac any
vapors which make it through the filter (and the filter is designed to
trap particles, not vapor) will be exposed to the motor brushes. This
could result in a rather large bang!
Jack & Cecilia Sargeant
1127 Patricia St.
Wichita, KS 67208-2642
316/682-5268
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 10:54 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: flap system install
just finishing the flap system install.
a couple of pointers
Ream all weldment holes to size: AN3 =3D #12 ream AN4 =3D .249 ream
although the plans show installing by inserting through the rear
floor area; they can be inserted more easily via the external hole and
pushed to the center. The outer skin hole should be deburred and smooth.
The key is marking all parts to location and orientation. then wax the
torque tubes and insert.
with reference to the flap horn bolts. leave the tunnel parts
together but don't install tunnel bolts. install the flap horn outboard
bolt first after sliding the torque tube as far into the center weldment
as possible. then a wrench underneath and a ratchet extension will allow
tightening. Then position the torque tube properly; the other bolt can
be reached with a ratchet extension.vertically
when drilling the flap motor for safety wire you will probably
need to drill vertically about .050 and then horizontally to meet the
vertical hole.
lastly this applies to all corrosion treatment of tubes. I clean
the inside with an acetone rinse then spray primer in the end. on the
other end is an operating shop vacuum. the primer is quickly distributed
down the pipe.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lauritsen - Work" <mike(at)cleavelandtool.com> |
| Subject: | RV Assembly Workshop |
Just as a shameless self promotion...
We teach a building class too. The last six months the schedule has been a
little unpredictable but we have one going on yesterday and today. The next
should be near the end of May, then one June 16th & 17th the days before
Boone's annual RV Day Fly-In.
We focus on teaching excellent quality of work, and what to look for when
using tools. We have a high instructor to student ratio (usually 1:2) and
are taught now by full time RV builders with multiple awards on their
shelves. The class is located in a hangar with 8 RV's under construction (2
-10's). Everyone taking our classes have expressed that it was well worth
the investment (including those that have taken other classes).
Cost is $325 and if you bring your spouse, or building partner they are half
price. I agree that this is a great way to motivate them.
Please email me with any questions. Mike(at sign)CleavelandTool.com
>
> As a prospective RV-10 builder, I have a question of this group: Have
> any of you taken the EAA Sportair Workshop on RV Assembly, and if so,
> how helpful was it? I've built an airplane before, but have not done a
> lot of sheetmetal work, and my wife has only bucked a handful of rivets.
> I can teach her, but wondered if this group recommends the workshops or
> to just dive in and get started.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Gesele <tgesele(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel Injection Choices |
Listers,
Can someone with more experience/knowledge of the available fuel injection
systems available help shed some light on the relative merits of the
Precision SilverHawk -vs- the Airflow Performance Injection systems for the
IO-540 engine? Any opinions/thoughts on choosing one over the other will be
greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Tom Gesele #473
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
I would not change from that factory setup. It has been flawless, easy
to install and remove. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 7:27 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Cowl fasteners
Where are people coming down on the decision of sticking with Van's cowl
"hinge" design, or going with Cam-lok type cowl fasteners?
Of the flying folks, anyone like to comment on the ease of use of the
hinge fastener design?
Thanks,
TDT
40025
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | crotch strap bracket |
| From: | "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> |
hey all -
am i right in thinking that if i'm using only a 3 or 4 point harness that i don't
need the crotch strap bracket installed? does it do anything else? i think
i remember that some were omitting it or removing it in the case of quickbuilds.
it doesn't do some other important task like hold the plane up in the air
does it? :)
cj
#40410
fuse!!!
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Drury" <mark(at)skytrans.com.au> |
| Subject: | Attn Australians - tail kit and tools for sale |
Unfortunately I need to sell my completed tail kit and tools. I'll part with the
lot for $AU4500. The buyer will need to pay for freight costs and I'd say this
will be expensive because of the volume of the completed parts (probably about
$2000). Considering that with our dollar v's the US dollar you will pay about
$10000 for kit, tools, transport from the States, GST and you will have a
completed kit, this is good value for money. I have detailed pictures and a builders
log and, if I do say so myself, the build quality is really good. My only
reason for selling is that in the past three days I had an investment go belly
up and have lost every cent I have. Please send me an email if interested.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Overhead Console - Update |
I spoke with Tony Sustare about the overhead console I ordered at
Sun-N-Fun and they are finalizing the fit on Ed Hayden's plane and the
overheads should be ready to ship in a few weeks. I anticipate that I
will get mine mid May. They are also working on the interior window
closeout rings to clean up interior boarder between the canopy liner and
the windows.
They are extending the Sun-N-Fun pricing.
$994 (regular $1,295) for the overhead canopy straight from the mold
and primed
$1,995 (regular $2,295) for the overhead canopy with cockpit lights,
eyeball vents and DVD player the components are not installed
$2,195 (regular $2,495) canopy with the components above installed.
Photos I took at SnF are on my website
<http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Construct/SunNFun_2006/Overhead/index.html>
along with contact information.
Larry Rosen
I am not associated with Tony or Accuracy Avionics. I am purchasing one
of their overhead consoles.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Walter" <pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Attn Australians - tail kit and tools for sale |
Hi mark,
Where are you in Australia ?
Paul Walter
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Drury
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 7:36 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Attn Australians - tail kit and tools for sale
Unfortunately I need to sell my completed tail kit and tools. I'll part with
the lot for $AU4500. The buyer will need to pay for freight costs and I'd say
this will be expensive because of the volume of the completed parts (probably
about $2000). Considering that with our dollar v's the US dollar you will pay
about $10000 for kit, tools, transport from the States, GST and you will have
a completed kit, this is good value for money. I have detailed pictures and a
builders log and, if I do say so myself, the build quality is really good. My
only reason for selling is that in the past three days I had an investment go
belly up and have lost every cent I have. Please send me an email if interested.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Your bucking bar input please. |
I'm trying to finish off Sec 29 (fuse skins, !@#$$#@
%$!!!!!!! you know
the one!) There are several rivets at the right angle juncture of the F
-1041 fwd bottom longerons and the F1042 upright bulkhead. This is where
a little triangular doubler goes to tie the pieces together (presumably)
additionally there is a nutplate that gets fastened to the triangle and
the whole joint. None of the bucking bars (or other shop paraphenalia
that I have) will fit the limited access to use as bucking bars, what
soulutions did some of you come up with?
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
Sorry for the poor quality of the picture
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: empty weight |
Tim 1,685
Randy 1,625
Vic 1,665
Chuck 1,615
Rob 1,558
Chuck and Vic weight from <http://www.rvproject.com/wab/>
Rob, looks like you have the light weight machine. Which prop? With or
without wheel pants?
Larry Rosen
http://lrosen.nerv10.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net> |
> FWIW, I'm also going to wire my own panel, and likely even
> do all the cutouts myself as well. No great mystery, just
> time and learning as with the rest of the project... :-)
I cut the panel for my -7A and wired all of the avionics from schematics downloaded
from the web. Result is at:
http://array.ucsd.edu/rv7a/panel.html
and
http://array.ucsd.edu/rv7a/2003-02-16_panel2.jpg
Took about 200 hours to do all of the design, cutting, wiring and painting, but
it was one of the really fun parts of the project. Plan to do the same for the
-10.
-Dan Masys
#40448
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nikolaos Napoli <owl40188(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Your bucking bar input please. |
Hi Deems,
I finished that section about 2 months ago and have allready forgotten exactly
what I did. I did use the empennage bucking bar in a lot of places and a steel
plate about 1/4 " thick by about 2 inches wide and about 8 inches long which
a shoved into tight areas. I believe I might have squeezed some of the rivets
in the area you are talking about. I would caution against using blind rivets
in this area as some of the engine loads are coming through that joint. If
you absolutely must use blind rivets make sure you use something like the CherryMax
ones that have a locking feature that keeps the stem in place. The problem
with most of the pop rivets is that if subjected to vibration the steel stem
falls off and you are left with a hollow aluminum cylinder as your fastener
that has a much reduced strength.
Niko
#188 fuselage
----- Original Message ----
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 8:51:51 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Your bucking bar input please.
I'm trying to finish off Sec 29 (fuse skins, !@#$$#@
%$!!!!!!! you know
the one!) There are several rivets at the right angle juncture of the F
-1041 fwd bottom longerons and the F1042 upright bulkhead. This is where
a little triangular doubler goes to tie the pieces together (presumably)
additionally there is a nutplate that gets fastened to the triangle and
the whole joint. None of the bucking bars (or other shop paraphenalia
that I have) will fit the limited access to use as bucking bars, what
soulutions did some of you come up with?
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
Sorry for the poor quality of the picture
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com> |
Any body else out there besides David thinking about using these belts?
http://www.inertialbelts.com/
I am one step away from installing the hard points and going this direction.
I am looking for comments, either on or off list. Thanks for your comments
in advance.
Rene'
rene(at)felker.com
40322
N423CF
Fuselage and finish kit
Wont be completed by Oskosh, maybe by January.
801-721-6080
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
check with GenGrumpy(at)aol.com ; he has a set installed.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rene
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 5:08 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Seat Belts
Any body else out there besides David thinking about using these belts?
http://www.inertialbelts.com/
I am one step away from installing the hard points and going this direction.
I am looking for comments, either on or off list. Thanks for your comments in
advance.
Rene'
rene(at)felker.com
40322
N423CF
Fuselage and finish kit
Wont be completed by Oskosh, maybe by January.
801-721-6080
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Bucking Bar follow-up |
Well after whining to everybody yesterday about my impossible to buck
rivets, it finally occurred to me that I might be within an easy reach
out of this pickle. There's enough material mass in the seldom used
Elevator bucking bar to make another 1/2 dozen bucking bars, the problem
was I didn't have the right tools to cut or machine the part ------ or
did I ? --- I remembered a seldom used highspeed grinder/cutoff wheel
tool and I wondered whether it would cut the massive bucking bar. Well a
little test proved that it would/could and 20 minutes later I had 2 new
bucking bars!!!!
Another 30 minutes per side on the Fuse and the impossible rivets (and
the nutplates), were completely subdued and driven into near perfect
position ! (well close enough, and didn't have to resort to pops).
I've attached a pic (reduced size)
Moral to the story: Whining leads to inspiration!!
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net> |
Tim,
As I was going thru the panel plans, it seems that the lower flange/strip of
aluminum will be recessed slightly behind the panel. That triggered a
memory from your site, so can you relate how you accomplished," One very
nice thing I found with adding that extra layer of aluminum for the switch
bar at the bottom of the panel." that made your panel "flush from top to
bottom."
Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net> |
Did anybody else notice the two angle of attack vanes on the tru track 10 at
sun and fun. I'm curious to know if its part of the "new" system they're
gonna announce at osh..
Steve dinieri
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
They showed it in the booth at Sun-N-Fun.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 04/22/2006 9:34:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
capsteve(at)adelphia.net writes:
Did anybody else notice the two angle of attack vanes on the tru track 10 at
sun and fun. I=E2=80=99m curious to know if its part of the =E2=80=9Cnew=E2=80=9D
system they=E2=80=99re
gonna announce at osh..
Steve dinieri
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Gear mount bolts |
Those with QB fuses make sure you check the bolts that hold the mounts in the fuse.
Some of mine were incorrect sizes ...some without washers and 2 without nuts
on....beware!
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
That's a simple one. I just bought some aluminum strips from Van's.
They are I think .063 strips, and I think they may be 1.5" or 2" wide.
Measure and see which fits better, or I can check at the hanger
if I remember today when I'm there. You may have to call them
to have them figure out which sizes they have standard. I can't
seem to find them on the web at first glance. They were
cheap, and I still have a couple extra that I ordered.
Anyway, all I did was take 2 strips, and attach them to the lower part
of the panel with about 4 screws for each strip. You can paint them
separately and attach them even after the panel is done if you
want to, but I'd really recommend having them for one reason.
If you ever want to add more switches or change the layout of something,
which has already happened to me, then at worst you just have to
pull the strip and paint it and re-silkscreen/engrave/label that piece.
It also makes the panel look nicer. I looked hard at my photos of
the colorado RV-10's before I did that and was impressed that theirs
looked more finished, which gave me the idea.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Robert G. Wright wrote:
> Tim,
>
>
>
> As I was going thru the panel plans, it seems that the lower
> flange/strip of aluminum will be recessed slightly behind the panel.
> That triggered a memory from your site, so can you relate how you
> accomplished, One very nice thing I found with adding that extra layer
> of aluminum for the switch bar at the bottom of the panel that made
> your panel flush from top to bottom.
>
>
>
> Rob
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | .311 drill bit? (or 7.9mm?) |
| From: | "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> |
hey all -
there's a hole that needs to be drilled in the gear mount with a .311 drill bit.
where do you get this? or 7.9mm. does this measurement correlate with a numbered
drill bit? help.
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Indran Chelvanayagam" <ichelva(at)netspace.net.au> |
| Subject: | .311 drill bit? (or 7.9mm?) |
Avery Tools sell an undersized 5/16 reamer which is .3110 inch in diameter.
Works nicely for a snug fit of the landing gear bolt
Indran Chelvanayagam
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2006 11:51 PM
Subject: RV10-List: .311 drill bit? (or 7.9mm?)
hey all -
there's a hole that needs to be drilled in the gear mount with a .311 drill
bit. where do you get this? or 7.9mm. does this measurement correlate
with a numbered drill bit? help.
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Grieve <mark(at)macomb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: .311 drill bit? (or 7.9mm?) |
Chris,
You can buy one from McMaster-Carr. http://www.mcmaster.com/ items
2958A126 and 30565A304 seem to fit the bill. Enco is another good source
for drills and things but their page is down this morning.
There was some chatter several months ago concerning this size of bit.
Someone proposed one builder buying a bit and passing it along to the
next builder who needed it. Maybe that has happened. I intend to order a
couple next time I need something from McMaster-Carr. The bits only cost
$4.00 but the shipping will probably double the price.
Mark
Chris Johnston wrote:
> hey all -
>
> there's a hole that needs to be drilled in the gear mount with a .311 drill bit.
where do you get this? or 7.9mm. does this measurement correlate with a
numbered drill bit? help.
>
> cj
> #40410
> fuse
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hilger" <ninepapa(at)bendbroadband.com> |
| Subject: | Re: .311 drill bit? (or 7.9mm?) |
Chris
All number drills are too small
No letter drills are close.
7.9mm is .311024", thats pretty close.
John
40359
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 8:51 AM
Subject: RV10-List: .311 drill bit? (or 7.9mm?)
hey all -
there's a hole that needs to be drilled in the gear mount with a .311 drill
bit. where do you get this? or 7.9mm. does this measurement correlate
with a numbered drill bit? help.
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com> |
| Subject: | Newest RV-10 kit |
I just ordered the empennage kit and wing kit on Friday #40579. Gonna pick
up the emp kit this coming week. Van's is only a 20 min drive from my
place. I have to remove some siding from the trailer to get the crates in
it though (too long). While working on that today I snapped a bolt that
holds the front panel on my trailer trying to remove it. Hopefully this
isn't an omen of how the build process will go!
The wife and I got our "free" $36K RV-10 ride at Van's on Friday. I have
lots of RV-4 time and 1.2 hours in a 9A and now 15 minutes in a 10. Holy
cow!!! I was very impressed that Van ended up creating such a big RV but
still maintained the RV controllability and feel. Wish we could make OSH in
06'. maybe 07' if were lucky.
Ben Westfall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Newest RV-10 kit on the way to well over 600 by OSH |
Congratulations Ben, hope you have as much fun as I'm having. It looks
like John Cox's prediction of 600 kits sold by OSH is a slam dunk, when
I spoke with Vans @ Copperstate they said they were averaging 17 RV10
kit sales per month, with 3 months remaining, should well exceed 600. I
hope John's other prediction of 50 complete is also achieved, Watching
w/ interest.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bucking Bar follow-up |
Not to rain on your parade Deems,
I had great success by modifying the emmpenage bucking bar as per Van's instructions
and have completed all the rivets on the fuse using it. I will admit hunting
for the right bar was a long process until I remembered in the plans it said
to use this bar to rivet the fuselage....hmmmm, WORKED!! I did use a cardboard
shim on one side so it would lay correctly in the forward longeron channels
without worrying if I was correctly postioned on those rivets.
Don't think I didn't stare at my bucking bars with the idea of hacking them up
though...I was very close to doing the same thing'
PS-If you want a taste of what it was like to build an RV before prepunched kits
came out, do the rear seat backs. I have a little experience in layout and drilling
and forgot how nice the prepuched kits are...It all comes racing back
doing the rear seats. Maybe 100 holes to layout and drill plus the metal angle
fabrication...4 hours time. Imagine if the entire kit was like that!
My hats off to the pioneers who laid out, drilled and fabricated their RV's......They
are the "real" builders, I humbly accept the title of assembler. Just my
.02 worth.
Rick S.
40185
fuse/finish
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PILOTDDS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: empty weight |
Mine weighed 1613 with dual batteries and paint .No wheel pants
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com> |
I would like to get an idea what Gross Weight everyone has
registered there plane for?
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250 (At the airport and wings are on)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: empty weight
Tim 1,685
Randy 1,625
Vic 1,665
Chuck 1,615
Rob 1,558
Chuck and Vic weight from <http://www.rvproject.com/wab/>
Rob, looks like you have the light weight machine. Which prop? With or
without wheel pants?
Larry Rosen
http://lrosen.nerv10.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bucking Bar follow-up |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fiber Glass thickness at Door Bottoms. |
| From: | "Bobby J. Hughes" <bhughes(at)qnsi.net> |
After sanding the doors into place I have almost no material left on the
bottom of the doors where they were glued together. I have some
separations that will require a couple of layers of glass to re-bond. I
am well inside the bottom scribe lines. Did anyone else need to sand
this far to make the doors fit. I have been looking at it for a week now
and I do not see where I could have done anything different except maybe
take more off the cabin top at the base of the doors.
Bobby
40116
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Fiber Glass thickness at Door Bottoms. |
Bob, I took an epoxy syringe from west marine and drilled small holes above
the joint and pumped in thickened epoxy, then just filled the holes (#30).
It Ended up making a fillet inside the door frame. I also pumped in
expanding urethane foam into the larger cavities to insulate and glue. Just
be careful not to guppy the thing....the expanding foam can easily deform
the door. It didn't add much weight but it really seems to give the door a
more solid feel...
Fwiw
Steve dinieri
40205
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-swiwerver(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 2:35 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Fiber Glass thickness at Door Bottoms.
After sanding the doors into place I have almost no material left on the
bottom of the doors where they were glued together. I have some separations
that will require a couple of layers of glass to re-bond. I am well inside
the bottom scribe lines. Did anyone else need to sand this far to make the
doors fit. I have been looking at it for a week now and I do not see where I
could have done anything different except maybe take more off the cabin top
at the base of the doors.
Bobby
40116
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Walter" <pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> |
i thouight i read that a company in the US may have been developing an alterative
firber glass after market cabin section for the RV 10. Any one know of this
?.
Paul Walter
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: RV10-List Digest - Fiber Glass thickness at Door Bottoms. |
| From: | "Condon, Philip M." <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
There are many problems with the foam you mention over the years. The
RV gear leg/fairing voids pumped with foam ended up attacking the metal
gear rods and pitting them. I imagine water or trapped moisture was the
culprit here. Foam can be hydroscopic and absorb moisture. Cessna had
problems with foamed elevators absorbing water. Your door fill area
might not be a problem area with foam, however I wanted to bring these
points up for consideration
.......................................................................
....................
Fiber Glass thickness at Door Bottoms.
Bob, I took an epoxy syringe from west marine and drilled small holes
above
the joint and pumped in thickened epoxy, then just filled the holes
(#30).
It Ended up making a fillet inside the door frame. I also pumped in
expanding urethane foam into the larger cavities to insulate and glue.
Just
be careful not to guppy the thing....the expanding foam can easily
deform
the door. It didn't add much weight but it really seems to give the
door a
more solid feel...
Fwiw
Steve dinieri
40205
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Gesele <tgesele(at)optonline.net> |
Has anyone considered installing a small blast tube off the baffles and
dumping the air directly into the tunnel? Seems like coupling that with some
firewall insulation on the forward side would resolve the heat situation (or
am I missing something)?
Tom Gesele #473
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net> |
Well....I'm not at that point of construction yet, but the tunnel heat does concern
me. Looking at many of the Rv10 projects on the web, it seems Van's has
the 2 triangular shaped heat valves (same one I have in my RV8) aiming the exhaust
port at each other. This hot air is always pointing at each other until
you open the valve for cabin heat.
Part of the tunnel heat problem could be as what Tim ond others have said...heat
conducting through the valve and radiating into the tunnel. Also, if the
heat valve(s) are the very same ones that I bought from Vans (I believe they are),
then they don't "seal" very well. If you have a blast of hot air aiming
at them constantly, (try experimenting with the valve in your hand and blow some
air with your air hose at the outlet side and see what happens) they could
possible leak and that hot air is forced down the tunnel through a "leaky" valve.
Maybe a solution would be to not point the exhaust ports at each other and/or
make a gasket to provide a better seal.
Just a thought but it's possible.
Zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30585#30585
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
I do not know of anyone making an after market cabin. However, Sam
James of James Aircraft <http://www.jamesaircraft.com/About_Us.html> is
making an after market cowl for the 10.
Larry Rosen
Paul Walter wrote:
> i thouight i read that a company in the US may have been developing an
> alterative firber glass after market cabin section for the RV 10. Any
> one know of this ?.
>
>
> Paul Walter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: GPS Antenna location |
I'm just throwing this out because no one else has mentioned it - I'm
putting my GPS antennas on the glareshield. The antennas will certainly have a
great view of the sky up through the plexi-glass, the install is easy and there
is no concern about engine heat cooking them.
Jim McGrew
40134
In a message dated 4/25/2006 6:12:03 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
coop85(at)bellsouth.net writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper"
I know this has been addressed before, but I was wondering if any of you
that opted to put the GPS antenna under the cowling have any feedback, good
or bad, on the idea? I suspect reception is okay, my biggest concern is the
heat in that area affecting the not so cheap antenna.
Thanks,
Marcus
Do not archive
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
jsmcgrew(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Are you speaking of your current #40415 project or your father's #40241
(N256H) or both when you say "We Have"? Randy's thought that both #241
and his #006 had the earlier cross muffler design was a logical answer
to less of a problem comparison with either the valve design or scat
ductwork. Rather new twin muffler design.
John - $00.02
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:40 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: tunnel heat
We have the dual muffler setup.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
352-465-4545
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:03 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: tunnel heat
Jesse, I am just fishing here. What exhaust system do you have? I have
the AWI system with one muffler running crosswise under the engine and
do not have a heating issue. Randy
--
--
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | GPS Antenna location |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
The reality is that GPS signals are basically immune to any type of
fiberglass or plastic as long as it isn't covered with a metallic paint
or anything else electrically conductive. Carbon fiber and metal will
block most of the frequencies we deal with. Sure you will get some tiny
amount of degradation from mounting it under glass but nothing worth
mentioning usually. Lot's of people have made a little shelf just
forward of the firewall to mount it on under the cowl and probably just
as many have mounted it under their canopy. Both are as good of spots
as mounting it on the exterior. If you do decide to mount on the
exterior the drag will not amount to much, probably less than a knot
depending on where you put it. It's more of a "clean look" type of
decision. But if you are worried about it and on the fence, just mount
it on the exterior as you can't go wrong.
As far as the engine cooking the antenna, most GPS (and XM/Sirius)
antennas are amplified so there are some electronics in the antenna
head. As with any other piece of electronic gear performance can suffer
if it becomes too hot, just make sure it isn't mounted next to anything
that radiates a bunch of heat like the exhaust headers.
Lastly GPS, and most satellite antennas we consumers deal with for
that matter, are circularly polarized and do not require ground planes.
Hope that helps. I'm not an expert but I slept at a Holiday Inn
Express last night.
Michael Sausen
RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage
Recent RV-10 Build Activity
<http://www.mykitlog.com/display_project.php?project_id=3D22>
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: GPS Antenna location
I'm just throwing this out because no one else has mentioned it - I'm
putting my GPS antennas on the glareshield. The antennas will certainly
have a great view of the sky up through the plexi-glass, the install is
easy and there is no concern about engine heat cooking them.
Jim McGrew
40134
In a message dated 4/25/2006 6:12:03 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
coop85(at)bellsouth.net writes:
=09
I know this has been addressed before, but I was wondering if any of
you
that opted to put the GPS antenna under the cowling have any feedback,
good
or bad, on the idea? I suspect reception is okay, my biggest concern
is the
heat in that area affecting the not so cheap antenna.
=09
Thanks,
Marcus
=09
Do not
=3D es Day
-->
- NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
p; - List Contribution Web Site
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
jsmcgrew(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry(at)mc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS Antenna location |
Gents ...
Check out Dan Checkoway's site on how he created removable glass panels
between windshield and cowling area.
http://www.rvproject.com/hidden_antennas.html
Refer your questions to Dan ... dan(at)rvproject.com ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
RV8A Electrical
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
N256H #40241 has the dual muffler and I assume 40415 will as well, but
we
don=92t have it yet.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
HYPERLINK "mailto:jesse(at)itecusa.org"jesse(at)itecusa.org
HYPERLINK "http://www.itecusa.org"www.itecusa.org
352-465-4545
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 11:38 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: tunnel heat
Are you speaking of your current #40415 project or your father=92s
#40241
(N256H) or both when you say =93We Have=94? Randy=92s thought that both
#241 and
his #006 had the earlier cross muffler design was a logical answer to
less
of a problem comparison with either the valve design or scat ductwork.
Rather new twin muffler design.
John - $00.02
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:40 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: tunnel heat
We have the dual muffler setup.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
HYPERLINK "mailto:jesse(at)itecusa.org"jesse(at)itecusa.org
HYPERLINK "http://www.itecusa.org"www.itecusa.org
352-465-4545
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:03 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: tunnel heat
Jesse, I am just fishing here. What exhaust system do you have? I have
the
AWI system with one muffler running crosswise under the engine and do
not
have a heating issue. Randy
--
--
--
--
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | My 2 Cents on the Landing Gear |
| From: | "Conti, Rick" <rick.conti(at)boeing.com> |
Whenever I start a new "kit", I review the instructions several times,
once to ensure I have the necessary tools and parts. The .311" drill
bit appeared to be a problem. I called Van's and received an
interesting answer: I was told a 5/16 bit would be okay. I haven't
installed the gear yet and after reading about loose landing gear I had
second thoughts. I received my .311" reamer from McMaster-Carr (thanks
for the info) yesterday. But is has occurred to me, that 5/16" would be
fine provided the bolt matched. Drilling with a 5/16" bit though the
leg and support would not cause a problem. The problem would be from an
undersized bolt. Would everyone agree 5/16" would be okay with a proper
(precise fit) bolt?
Thank You
Rick Conti
Senior Engineering Manager
The Boeing Company
office: 703 - 414 - 6141
blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Kermanj" <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My 2 Cents on the Landing Gear |
I used the same reamer as you have purchased. I found it easier to
insert the reamer from the button, chuck it and pull it through the
hole. If you decide to do this, you may need to grind the blade
shoulders at the reamer stem side to be able to pull up through.
On 4/26/06, Conti, Rick wrote:
>
> Whenever I start a new "kit", I review the instructions several times,
> once to ensure I have the necessary tools and parts. The .311" drill
> bit appeared to be a problem. I called Van's and received an
> interesting answer: I was told a 5/16 bit would be okay. I haven't
> installed the gear yet and after reading about loose landing gear I had
> second thoughts. I received my .311" reamer from McMaster-Carr (thanks
> for the info) yesterday. But is has occurred to me, that 5/16" would be
> fine provided the bolt matched. Drilling with a 5/16" bit though the
> leg and support would not cause a problem. The problem would be from an
> undersized bolt. Would everyone agree 5/16" would be okay with a proper
> (precise fit) bolt?
>
> Thank You
> Rick Conti
> Senior Engineering Manager
> The Boeing Company
> office: 703 - 414 - 6141
> blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | GPS Antenna location |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
One trick to determine your field of view is to tape a long piece of
string to the center of the antenna and hold it a various angles. If at
any point one of those angles intersect something that blocks that view
of the sky you have your answer on if it's a good spot. Short of
mounting the antenna at the absolute highest point of your airframe, you
will have some of the sky view blocked. In most cases it's almost
nothing but in some locations it can be substantial.
Another thing to remember is those big sacs of water in the cabin (us)
do a much better job at blocking many types of signals than the
fiberglass or plastic. Keep that in mind as you decide where to put
your antennas. In the same respect traveling below or around massive
buildups (not someplace I would want to be anyway) would be much more
effective at blocking your GPS than the fiberglass cabin lid. Either
way if you are getting any amount of regular RAIM messages with modern
GPS receivers you have a major installation problem in either the
equipment or location. You can effectively block half of the sky view
and you should still maintain a positive 3D lock almost the entire time
with the possible exception of when sats are setting or rising over the
horizon.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 6:49 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: GPS Antenna location
One thing that turns me off about mounting it under a panel somewhere
(less of an issues perhaps than mounting it under the cabin top, is that
it could be harder to get a total
clear view of the sky in all directions. Imagine yourself
digging a 6' deep square hole in your yard, 8' x 8' wide.
Sure, you'll see some satellites, because a few of them are
high above the horizon. Will you see those that are low
on the horizon....well, at a certain point, no.
I'm not saying that it's crazy to mount the antenna elsewhere.
Certainly under the cowl will be better than under the aluminum of the
forward fuselage from the above scenario.
Everyone has their choice. The part that I find hard to swallow when I
think about doing this myself is that I for the life of me can't figure
out why anyone would accept even the slightest degradation from mounting
location in a system that's designed to keep them locked into a system
that supposedly is to help them stay alive
by navigating to the runway through a cloud. If it
was a VFR install, I'd have much less concern.
Is "pretty good", or "fairly well", or "most of the time"
reliable enough for you?
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> The reality is that GPS signals are basically immune to any type of
> fiberglass or plastic as long as it isn't covered with a metallic
> paint or anything else electrically conductive. Carbon fiber and
> metal will block most of the frequencies we deal with. Sure you will
> get some tiny amount of degradation from mounting it under glass but
> nothing worth mentioning usually. Lot's of people have made a little
> shelf just forward of the firewall to mount it on under the cowl and
> probably just as many have mounted it under their canopy. Both are as
> good of spots as mounting it on the exterior. If you do decide to
> mount on the exterior the drag will not amount to much, probably less
> than a knot depending on where you put it. It's more of a "clean
> look" type of decision. But if you are worried about it and on the
> fence, just mount it on the exterior as you can't go wrong.
>
> As far as the engine cooking the antenna, most GPS (and
> XM/Sirius) antennas are amplified so there are some electronics in the
> antenna head. As with any other piece of electronic gear performance
> can suffer if it becomes too hot, just make sure it isn't mounted next
> to anything that radiates a bunch of heat like the exhaust headers.
>
> Lastly GPS, and most satellite antennas we consumers deal with for
> that matter, are circularly polarized and do not require ground
planes.
>
>
> Hope that helps. I'm not an expert but I slept at a Holiday Inn
> Express last night.
>
>
> Michael Sausen
>
> RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage
>
> Recent RV-10 Build Activity
> <http://www.mykitlog.com/display_project.php?project_id=3D22>
>
>
> --
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:35 PM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: GPS Antenna location
>
> I'm just throwing this out because no one else has mentioned it - I'm
> putting my GPS antennas on the glareshield. The antennas will
> certainly have a great view of the sky up through the plexi-glass, the
> install is easy and there is no concern about engine heat cooking
them.
>
> Jim McGrew
> 40134
>
> In a message dated 4/25/2006 6:12:03 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
> coop85(at)bellsouth.net writes:
>
>
>
> I know this has been addressed before, but I was wondering if any
of you
> that opted to put the GPS antenna under the cowling have any
> feedback, good
> or bad, on the idea? I suspect reception is okay, my biggest
> concern is the
> heat in that area affecting the not so cheap antenna.
>
> Thanks,
> Marcus
>
> Do not
=3D es Day
>
> -->
> ->
p; - List
> Contribution Web Site
>
>
>
> Jim "Scooter" McGrew
> jsmcgrew(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gorejr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS Antenna location |
That was slick. I thought the XM and GPS receivers could not be enclosed in metal.
Thought they had to have a clear view of the sky. Thanks
Jim Gore RV-10
Georgia
>
> From: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry(at)mc.net>
> Date: 2006/04/26 Wed AM 08:30:37 EDT
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: GPS Antenna location
>
> Gents ...
> Check out Dan Checkoway's site on how he created removable glass panels between
windshield and cowling area.
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/hidden_antennas.html
>
> Refer your questions to Dan ... dan(at)rvproject.com ...
>
> Jerry Grimmonpre'
> RV8A Electrical
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Weight in the front |
I put a saw horse underneath one of the frames/bulkheads in the tailcone. I
had foam padding on top of the saw horse to spread the load out a bit. Even
with the engine in place, I keep it there when I am crawling in the tailcone.
Keep it simple...
Jim
40134
In a message dated 4/26/2006 12:22:50 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
seanblair(at)adelphia.net writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: seanblair(at)adelphia.net
I'm getting in the neighborhood of joining the fuselage to the tailcone and
would like to put the plane on its gear. Does anyone have any creative ideas
for placing weight on the engine mount until I get my engine bolted on? It
will be awhile before I get to the engine, so I need a fairly long-term
solution.
I'm not a big fan of bracing the tail of the plane as a primary plan, only
if needed. It seems with any movement, a tail brace could slip and/or cause
damage.
Lead shot bags? Any other ideas? About how much weight would be good to
place replicating the engine and enough that I don't cause it to nose up
getting in and out? Considerations also for working in the backseat area too.
Thanks in advance for any help,
Sean
#40225
Do not archive
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
jsmcgrew(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Reining" <wreining(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Partain Quick Build Delivery |
My son and I received our Quick Build fuselage and wings yesterday, at my
home here in Walnut Creek, California, via Partain Transport and laptop GPS.
All I can say is "super service". Be prepared - it arrived several hours
sooner than anticipated. The trailer is 70 feet long (he had two RV-10 QB's
and one RV-7 QB on board) - so don't expect him to back into your
residential driveway. Make sure to have a couple of healthy helpers on hand
- especially to lift the fuselage off of the transport stand onto your
stand. The fuselage transport stand has rollers, and does in fact roll
right down the driveway. The wings are carried in the trailer mounted via
straps to the side wall, so you and your helper will need to lift them while
the driver unstraps them and removes the pads. You and your helper then
carry them off the trailer onto your wing stand. Bruce was very helpful -
it was comforting to see his "Sun and Fun - 2006" tee shirt and know that he
was a fellow aviation enthusiast (and helicopter pilot). But don't count on
Bruce staying around too long - he is under DOT regulations as a truck
driver and has to keep moving, lest he run out of duty time. Everything
arrived in perfect order, well padded and protected. It was $1580 well
spent - highly recommended.
Bill & Jon Reining
#40514 - elevators
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lauritsen - Work" <mike(at)cleavelandtool.com> |
| Subject: | New fuel valve handle |
We have designed a new fuel handle for those using Van's stock fuel valve.
They will be available in a few weeks for $47.
See our website for more info or to pre-order at:
http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=RVFS1
RV Fuel Selector Handle
Mike
Mike Lauritsen
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
2225 First St.
Boone, Iowa 50036
515-432-6794
mike(at)cleavelandtool.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gorejr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Extra fuel tanks |
Is it possible to add the 15 gallon extra fuel with the quickbuild wing? I know
alot of the fuel system is in place. Thanks!
Jim Gore RV-10
Griffin GA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS Antenna location |
Cc: Marcus Cooper
---- Marcus Cooper wrote:
>
> I know this has been addressed before, but I was wondering if any of you
> that opted to put the GPS antenna under the cowling have any feedback, good
> or bad, on the idea? I suspect reception is okay, my biggest concern is the
> heat in that area affecting the not so cheap antenna.
I have my GPS antenna under the cowl on my -7A, and connected to a GX-60. In 200
flight hours the GPS has never been anything but rock stable and available.
It may be that whatever signal attenuation accrues to being beneath the cowl
is offset by the fact that the cable run to the back of the GPS unit is only
about 18 inches. In the SoCal RV group, there are at least 8 or 10 RVs configured
this way and to my knowledge no one has ever reported and problems with the
arrangement. Will do the same for the -10.
-Dan Masys
#40448
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Extra fuel tanks |
How long did you want to sit?
At full throttle at 2100 RPM and 60 gallons, you can sit for 4 1/2 hours and
still have a half hour reserve.
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 04/26/2006 4:25:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
gorejr(at)bellsouth.net writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by:
Is it possible to add the 15 gallon extra fuel with the quickbuild wing? I
know alot of the fuel system is in place. Thanks!
Jim Gore RV-10
Griffin GA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Lenhardt" <av8or(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Extra fuel tanks |
Yes, the system is designed to be added to aircraft already completed if
you are talking about the ones in January's 2006 Sport Aviation by
SafeAir1.
JT Lenhardt
#40262
----- Original Message -----
From: gorejr(at)bellsouth.net
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 7:21 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Extra fuel tanks
Is it possible to add the 15 gallon extra fuel with the quickbuild
wing? I know alot of the fuel system is in place. Thanks!
Jim Gore RV-10
Griffin GA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LIKE2LOOP(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | GPS Antenna location |
I fly my C-170 with a Garmin 196 in WAAS mode, suction cupped to the
windshield on the pilots side. We use the built in antenna and have never needed
the external antenna ( and that is with a high wing). I would have a
concern putting the antenna in a glass hole under forward of the windshield with
metal on the sides and firewall. Base of windshield above the level of the front
section or over head would be the logical choices.
Steve
Port St. Lucie, FL #40499
772-475-5556
Sent from my Treo 600
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Fuselage width on Gear dimension |
Would someone please measure the maximum width of the fuselage after the
landing gear is installed. I believe this would be the dimension from
the outside of the landing gear.
I have a 3 car garage but it is only 22' deep and there is a column
between the bays. I am trying to figure out if I can put the plane on
the gear and install the engine with the assembly on an angle and still
get it out with out major surgery on something like the garage door
opening. My alternate is to construct a temporary garage extension
which I want to avoid if possible.
--
Larry Rosen
RV-10 #356
http://lrosen.nerv10.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuselage width on Gear dimension |
| From: | "Conti, Rick" <rick.conti(at)boeing.com> |
Check the three view drawing (available on Tim's site), it's 7' 4" to
the center of the tires.. I have the same issue.
Thank You
Rick Conti
Senior Engineering Manager
The Boeing Company
office: 703 - 414 - 6141
blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Rosen [mailto:LarryRosen(at)comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:27 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Fuselage width on Gear dimension
Would someone please measure the maximum width of the fuselage after the
landing gear is installed. I believe this would be the dimension from
the outside of the landing gear.
I have a 3 car garage but it is only 22' deep and there is a column
between the bays. I am trying to figure out if I can put the plane on
the gear and install the engine with the assembly on an angle and still
get it out with out major surgery on something like the garage door
opening. My alternate is to construct a temporary garage extension
which I want to avoid if possible.
--
Larry Rosen
RV-10 #356
http://lrosen.nerv10.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
| Subject: | Fuselage width on Gear dimension |
7'9" on gear with no wheels or tires on. It may spread a little with the
weight of the engine.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
352-465-4545
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 7:27 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Fuselage width on Gear dimension
Would someone please measure the maximum width of the fuselage after the
landing gear is installed. I believe this would be the dimension from
the outside of the landing gear.
I have a 3 car garage but it is only 22' deep and there is a column
between the bays. I am trying to figure out if I can put the plane on
the gear and install the engine with the assembly on an angle and still
get it out with out major surgery on something like the garage door
opening. My alternate is to construct a temporary garage extension
which I want to avoid if possible.
--
Larry Rosen
RV-10 #356
http://lrosen.nerv10.com
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Newman" <rnewman(at)lutron.com> |
| Subject: | Gear width and garage openings |
When we built our 3 Glastar's we did each of them in an area that
ultimately required us to roll thru an 8' wide garage door opening.
The gear on a Glastar is about 94" axel to axel when installed, but when
you add an engine, prop and all the other goodies it spreads to more
than 8'. The solution, which I believe will be applicable to the
RV-10 is to attach a ratcheting tie-down strap between to the two axels,
down low near the wheel and pull the two axels towards eachl together.
We were able to very easily spring the gear in and roll right thru the
door opening. :)
Bob Newman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Extra fuel tanks |
Our FBO here gives home-base pilots a excellent deal on avgas-at one
point
last year during the last run-up in prices, there was almost $2/gal
difference in area gas prices. Bigger tanks would give me greater out
and
back range without having to refuel.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Extra fuel tanks
How long did you want to sit?
At full throttle at 2100 RPM and 60 gallons, you can sit for 4 1/2 hours
and
still have a half hour reserve.
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 04/26/2006 4:25:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
gorejr(at)bellsouth.net writes:
Is it possible to add the 15 gallon extra fuel with the quickbuild wing?
I
know alot of the fuel system is in place. Thanks!
Jim Gore RV-10
Griffin GA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net> |
100LL hit a psychological threshhold at my home airport (JWN) this week. It is
now at $5 per gallon. This got me thinking again about an autogas STC. Had
one for my C-182 and flew it happily for 1100 hours on autogas, saving more than
$10K at 13.5 gal/hr over five years.
Petersen lists autogas STCs for the following variants of the O-540, with those
having an asterisk needing 91 octane and all others ok on 87 octane:
0-540-B1A5, -B1B5, -B1D5, -B2A5, -B2B5, -B2C5, -B4A5, -B4B5, -A1A*, -A1A5*, -A1B5*,
-A1C5*, -A1D*, -A1D5*, -A2B*, -A3D5*, -A4A5*, -A4B5*, -A4C5*, -A4D5*, -D1A5*,
-E4A5*, -E4B5*, -E4C5*, -G1A5*, -G2A5*, -H1A5*, -H2A5*, -H1A5D*, -H2A5D*, -H1B5D*,
-H2B5D* -F1B5*
I was going to go with an IO-540 but it might be worth going back to a carburator
to have a plane that is not hostage to the economics of greed, where every
time autogas goes up 20 cents a gallon, avgas goes up a dollar.
Anyone else planning to run autogas in their Lycosaur?
-Dan Masys
#40448
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New fuel valve handle |
| From: | "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> |
Mike count me in. Please send another email when stock has arrived.
Thanks, Randy
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Lauritsen - Work
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 1:24 PM
Subject: RV10-List: New fuel valve handle
We have designed a new fuel handle for those using Van's stock fuel
valve.
They will be available in a few weeks for $47.
See our website for more info or to pre-order at:
http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=3DRVFS1
Mike
Mike Lauritsen
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
2225 First St.
Boone, Iowa 50036
515-432-6794
mike(at)cleavelandtool.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
Well, with injection you can lean that sucker out much more than with a
carb. It would be interesting to run the numbers comparing that
situation . . .
TDT
40025
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Masys
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 12:19 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Autogas for 540
100LL hit a psychological threshhold at my home airport (JWN) this week.
It is now at $5 per gallon. This got me thinking again about an autogas
STC. Had one for my C-182 and flew it happily for 1100 hours on
autogas, saving more than $10K at 13.5 gal/hr over five years.
Petersen lists autogas STCs for the following variants of the O-540,
with those having an asterisk needing 91 octane and all others ok on 87
octane:
0-540-B1A5, -B1B5, -B1D5, -B2A5, -B2B5, -B2C5, -B4A5, -B4B5, -A1A*,
-A1A5*, -A1B5*,
-A1C5*, -A1D*, -A1D5*, -A2B*, -A3D5*, -A4A5*, -A4B5*, -A4C5*, -A4D5*,
-D1A5*,
-E4A5*, -E4B5*, -E4C5*, -G1A5*, -G2A5*, -H1A5*, -H2A5*, -H1A5D*,
-H2A5D*, -H1B5D*, -H2B5D* -F1B5*
I was going to go with an IO-540 but it might be worth going back to a
carburator to have a plane that is not hostage to the economics of
greed, where every time autogas goes up 20 cents a gallon, avgas goes up
a dollar.
Anyone else planning to run autogas in their Lycosaur?
-Dan Masys
#40448
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tommy Norman" <tie-norman(at)comcast.net> |
It is my understanding that these STCs were intended to use alcohol free
fuel (i.e. no methanol or ethanol). This may be an issue since MTBE is
being phased out and replaced with ethanol.
http://www.eaa.org/education/fuel/knopp_alcohol.html
Tommy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Masys
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 11:19 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Autogas for 540
100LL hit a psychological threshhold at my home airport (JWN) this week.
It is now at $5 per gallon. This got me thinking again about an autogas
STC. Had one for my C-182 and flew it happily for 1100 hours on
autogas, saving more than $10K at 13.5 gal/hr over five years.
Petersen lists autogas STCs for the following variants of the O-540,
with those having an asterisk needing 91 octane and all others ok on 87
octane:
0-540-B1A5, -B1B5, -B1D5, -B2A5, -B2B5, -B2C5, -B4A5, -B4B5, -A1A*,
-A1A5*, -A1B5*,
-A1C5*, -A1D*, -A1D5*, -A2B*, -A3D5*, -A4A5*, -A4B5*, -A4C5*, -A4D5*,
-D1A5*,
-E4A5*, -E4B5*, -E4C5*, -G1A5*, -G2A5*, -H1A5*, -H2A5*, -H1A5D*,
-H2A5D*, -H1B5D*, -H2B5D* -F1B5*
I was going to go with an IO-540 but it might be worth going back to a
carburator to have a plane that is not hostage to the economics of
greed, where every time autogas goes up 20 cents a gallon, avgas goes up
a dollar.
Anyone else planning to run autogas in their Lycosaur?
-Dan Masys
#40448
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cal Hoffman" <cehoffman(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Autogas for 540 |
My experience with the O-540 has been that the 235 hp versions run well on
auto fuel, but the 250hp and 260 hp versions tend to ping.
Cal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Masys" <dmasys(at)cox.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 12:18 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Autogas for 540
>
> 100LL hit a psychological threshhold at my home airport (JWN) this week.
It is now at $5 per gallon. This got me thinking again about an autogas
STC. Had one for my C-182 and flew it happily for 1100 hours on autogas,
saving more than $10K at 13.5 gal/hr over five years.
>
> Petersen lists autogas STCs for the following variants of the O-540, with
those having an asterisk needing 91 octane and all others ok on 87 octane:
>
0-540-B1A5, -B1B5, -B1D5, -B2A5, -B2B5, -B2C5, -B4A5, -B4B5, -A1A*, -A1A5*,
-A1B5*,
> -A1C5*, -A1D*, -A1D5*, -A2B*, -A3D5*, -A4A5*, -A4B5*, -A4C5*, -A4D5*, -D1A
5*,
> -E4A5*, -E4B5*, -E4C5*, -G1A5*, -G2A5*, -H1A5*, -H2A5*, -H1A5D*, -H2A5D*,
-H1B5D*, -H2B5D* -F1B5*
>
> I was going to go with an IO-540 but it might be worth going back to a
carburator to have a plane that is not hostage to the economics of greed,
where every time autogas goes up 20 cents a gallon, avgas goes up a dollar.
>
> Anyone else planning to run autogas in their Lycosaur?
>
> -Dan Masys
> #40448
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Sponcil" <bsponcil(at)belinblank.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Autogas for 540 |
I'm thinking it as well. Keep in mind however, that the choice in engine
isn't the only factor in safely running auto-gas. For instance, the
Cherokee 235 with the 0-540-B4B5 has the autogas STC whereas an Apache
running the very same engines does not. The same can be said for the
mooneys and comanches. Pull the engines out of those planes and put them
into a cherokee 180 and you go from no autogas to autogas approved.
According to Petersen, the tighter the cowl and the higher the performance,
the harder it was to pass their tests. I guess in the case of the mooneys
and comanches, they had problems with the fuel boiling in the carb. If I
remember correctly, one of the tests was to heat the fuel tanks (seems sort
of dangerous) to 110 degrees and then do a MaxPerformance climb all the way
to 12,500. Any hiccups in performance (loss of power, fuel pressure, etc)
and it failed the test.
Does that mean if you fly conservatively, ie - don't do maximum performance
climbs to 12,500, you won't have problems? I don't know. I think auto-gas
is a possibility in the RV-10s, but someone is going to have to be the beta
tester :-(
-Brian
#40497
N211BD
Iowa City, IA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Masys" <dmasys(at)cox.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 11:18 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Autogas for 540
>
> 100LL hit a psychological threshhold at my home airport (JWN) this week.
> It is now at $5 per gallon. This got me thinking again about an autogas
> STC. Had one for my C-182 and flew it happily for 1100 hours on autogas,
> saving more than $10K at 13.5 gal/hr over five years.
>
> Petersen lists autogas STCs for the following variants of the O-540, with
> those having an asterisk needing 91 octane and all others ok on 87 octane:
> 0-540-B1A5, -B1B5, -B1D5, -B2A5, -B2B5, -B2C5, -B4A5, -B4B5, -A1A*, -A1A5*,
> -A1B5*,
> -A1C5*, -A1D*, -A1D5*, -A2B*, -A3D5*, -A4A5*, -A4B5*, -A4C5*, -A4D5*, -D1A5*,
> -E4A5*, -E4B5*, -E4C5*, -G1A5*, -G2A5*, -H1A5*, -H2A5*, -H1A5D*, -H2A5D*,
> -H1B5D*, -H2B5D* -F1B5*
>
> I was going to go with an IO-540 but it might be worth going back to a
> carburator to have a plane that is not hostage to the economics of greed,
> where every time autogas goes up 20 cents a gallon, avgas goes up a
> dollar.
>
> Anyone else planning to run autogas in their Lycosaur?
>
> -Dan Masys
> #40448
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Newman" <rnewman(at)lutron.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Autogas for 540 |
Part of my plan is flexibility in choices, I'm using an O-540-E4B5 in
RV-10.
-Bob Newman
>>> dmasys(at)cox.net 4/27/2006 12:18:42 PM >>>
100LL hit a psychological threshhold at my home airport (JWN) this
week. It is now at $5 per gallon. This got me thinking again about an
autogas STC. Had one for my C-182 and flew it happily for 1100 hours on
autogas, saving more than $10K at 13.5 gal/hr over five years.
Petersen lists autogas STCs for the following variants of the O-540,
with those having an asterisk needing 91 octane and all others ok on 87
octane:
0-540-B1A5, -B1B5, -B1D5, -B2A5, -B2B5, -B2C5, -B4A5, -B4B5, -A1A*,
-A1A5*, -A1B5*,
-A1C5*, -A1D*, -A1D5*, -A2B*, -A3D5*, -A4A5*, -A4B5*, -A4C5*, -A4D5*,
-D1A5*,
-E4A5*, -E4B5*, -E4C5*, -G1A5*, -G2A5*, -H1A5*, -H2A5*, -H1A5D*,
-H2A5D*, -H1B5D*, -H2B5D* -F1B5*
I was going to go with an IO-540 but it might be worth going back to a
carburator to have a plane that is not hostage to the economics of
greed, where every time autogas goes up 20 cents a gallon, avgas goes up
a dollar.
Anyone else planning to run autogas in their Lycosaur?
-Dan Masys
#40448
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | My 2 Cents on the Landing Gear |
| From: | "Conti, Rick" <rick.conti(at)boeing.com> |
Bob,
I'm not sure I understand. I've never used a reamer and just realized I
shouldn't use an air drill with a reamer. Maybe the hand wrench from my
tap & die set.
What under size hole did you drill before using the .311" reamer?
Please explain the grinding of the shoulders at the reamer stem side to
be able to pull up and through.
Does any of this make sense without using a close tolerance bolt?
Bill suggested using a .3125 reamer with a 5/16" close tolerance bolt.
All of which sounds good.
Thank You
Rick Conti
Senior Engineering Manager
The Boeing Company
office: 703 - 414 - 6141
blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Kermanj [mailto:flysrv10(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: My 2 Cents on the Landing Gear
I used the same reamer as you have purchased. I found it easier to
insert the reamer from the button, chuck it and pull it through the
hole. If you decide to do this, you may need to grind the blade
shoulders at the reamer stem side to be able to pull up through.
On 4/26/06, Conti, Rick wrote:
>
> Whenever I start a new "kit", I review the instructions several times,
> once to ensure I have the necessary tools and parts. The .311" drill
> bit appeared to be a problem. I called Van's and received an
> interesting answer: I was told a 5/16 bit would be okay. I haven't
> installed the gear yet and after reading about loose landing gear I
had
> second thoughts. I received my .311" reamer from McMaster-Carr
(thanks
> for the info) yesterday. But is has occurred to me, that 5/16" would
be
> fine provided the bolt matched. Drilling with a 5/16" bit though the
> leg and support would not cause a problem. The problem would be from
an
> undersized bolt. Would everyone agree 5/16" would be okay with a
proper
> (precise fit) bolt?
>
> Thank You
> Rick Conti
> Senior Engineering Manager
> The Boeing Company
> office: 703 - 414 - 6141
> blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conti, Rick" <rick.conti(at)boeing.com> |
I've never owned a plane with an auto-gas STC. How do you refuel the
plane? I wouldn't image the wings would fit under the canopy of an
Exxon station.
Thank You
Rick Conti
Senior Engineering Manager
The Boeing Company
office: 703 - 414 - 6141
blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Newman [mailto:rnewman(at)lutron.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Autogas for 540
Part of my plan is flexibility in choices, I'm using an O-540-E4B5 in
RV-10.
-Bob Newman
>>> dmasys(at)cox.net 4/27/2006 12:18:42 PM >>>
100LL hit a psychological threshhold at my home airport (JWN) this
week. It is now at $5 per gallon. This got me thinking again about an
autogas STC. Had one for my C-182 and flew it happily for 1100 hours on
autogas, saving more than $10K at 13.5 gal/hr over five years.
Petersen lists autogas STCs for the following variants of the O-540,
with those having an asterisk needing 91 octane and all others ok on 87
octane:
0-540-B1A5, -B1B5, -B1D5, -B2A5, -B2B5, -B2C5, -B4A5, -B4B5, -A1A*,
-A1A5*, -A1B5*,
-A1C5*, -A1D*, -A1D5*, -A2B*, -A3D5*, -A4A5*, -A4B5*, -A4C5*, -A4D5*,
-D1A5*,
-E4A5*, -E4B5*, -E4C5*, -G1A5*, -G2A5*, -H1A5*, -H2A5*, -H1A5D*,
-H2A5D*, -H1B5D*, -H2B5D* -F1B5*
I was going to go with an IO-540 but it might be worth going back to a
carburator to have a plane that is not hostage to the economics of
greed, where every time autogas goes up 20 cents a gallon, avgas goes up
a dollar.
Anyone else planning to run autogas in their Lycosaur?
-Dan Masys
#40448
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com> |
ECi Titan IO-540 kit engine (~ 2007?) is supposed to
be autofuel capable. This is partly because they are
using a fuel spider with fixed orifice and not a fuel
servo with some autogas sensitive components. Still
they rec 100LL initial for valves. Note this system
requires a return fuel line. I have built these
fittings into my tanks just in case. Part of reason
for return line is to return any vapor to tank.
Autogas and ethanol autogas in particular has lower
vapor pressure. Ethanol is also a good solvent for
lots of things....
Deltahawk claims they sold out 2005 and 2006
production runs but I have never seen a builder site
which makes me wonder if they really have that many
out there. I saw one article that 2005 run was only
two engines.
A number of builders are looking at rotary engines as
well.
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GRANSCOTT(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Autogas for 540 |
In a message dated 4/27/06 5:52:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com writes:
Deltahawk claims they sold out 2005 and 2006
production runs but I have never seen a builder site
which makes me wonder if they really have that many
out there.
I know the person that's #20 on the list has yet to smell diesel in the
morning...promised for over a year ago...hope they make it...
P
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> |
Just a quick note that I think applies - FYI... this is a section from
a discussion on the Subaru list -
> The wings are wide open. Lower wing skins are not bonded on yet. I can
> run any size return line. Why float type?What's so special about that?
> The fuel pick up lines are in. They should stay. They are 3/8 in size.
> I hope I don't sound like an idiot.
> Gary
Hi Gary,
The capacitance fuel level senders require re-calibration for each type
of fuel you use. So, if you use mogas most of the time, but from time
to time need to put in 100LL, then the fuel level will not read
correctly. The very simple float senders don't have this problem.
Another alternative to the fuel return lines is to install
a header tank. From what I've read on the net, this seems
to be a popular option.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Panning
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 2:42 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Autogas for 540
ECi Titan IO-540 kit engine (~ 2007?) is supposed to
be autofuel capable. This is partly because they are
using a fuel spider with fixed orifice and not a fuel
servo with some autogas sensitive components. Still
they rec 100LL initial for valves. Note this system
requires a return fuel line. I have built these
fittings into my tanks just in case. Part of reason
for return line is to return any vapor to tank.
Autogas and ethanol autogas in particular has lower
vapor pressure. Ethanol is also a good solvent for
lots of things....
Deltahawk claims they sold out 2005 and 2006
production runs but I have never seen a builder site
which makes me wonder if they really have that many
out there. I saw one article that 2005 run was only
two engines.
A number of builders are looking at rotary engines as
well.
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gorejr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Extra fuel tanks |
What kind of speed and fuel burn do you get at these settings? Thanks Jim Gore
>
> From: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
> Date: 2006/04/26 Wed PM 09:17:48 EDT
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Extra fuel tanks
>
>
> How long did you want to sit?
> At full throttle at 2100 RPM and 60 gallons, you can sit for 4 1/2 hours and
> still have a half hour reserve.
>
> Jim Ayers
>
> In a message dated 04/26/2006 4:25:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> gorejr(at)bellsouth.net writes:
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by:
>
> Is it possible to add the 15 gallon extra fuel with the quickbuild wing? I
> know alot of the fuel system is in place. Thanks!
> Jim Gore RV-10
> Griffin GA
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Autogas for 540 (IO-540) |
>
> I've never owned a plane with an auto-gas STC. How do you refuel the
> plane? I wouldn't image the wings would fit under the canopy of an
> Exxon station.
I use 93 octane in my RV-6A (O-360, 8.5/1 compression). I use one tank
for avgas only, the other for auto gas and/or avgas. To fuel at the
airport I use five gallon metal fuel cans with the spring loaded "safety
nozzle." Manassas airport requires these nozzles for those of us who
fuel our plans from fuel cans. Grounding wires and conductive funnels
are also required at Manassas.
I've been able to force the RV-6A to vapor lock on autogas, but it
hasn't been a problem unless I set out to overheat the fuel (hot day,
fly hard, land hot, long taxi, then try immediate takeoff). I have had
the autogas ice up on me twice during winter flights. I think it
happened because I had a Fram G3 paper fuel filter between the fuel tank
and the fuel selector. I've spoken to a couple of experts in the field,
who tell me the paper filters are susceptible to freezing if there's any
water in the fuel. I'm replacing the Fram G3s with the Purolator Pro
806, which uses a nylon filter.
IO-540 and auto gas: I spent quite a while talking to Dan from Airflow
Performance (the folks who make the fuel pump that Van sells for IO-540
powered RV-10s) about autogas in the Bendix injection system. Dan used
to be Bendix's project engineer on the Bendix RS and RSA fuel injection
systems (that's the one on the IO-540). Don told me there's no
materials compatability problem with using auto gas in the Bendix
system, but you don't want to leave autogas sitting in the servo for a
long time because when auto gas evaporates it'll leave "varnish"
deposits. Dan said many people use auto gas in the Bendix injected
engines, but he pointed out that vapor lock is a concern when using auto
gas in an injected engine.
I talked to Mr Petersen of the famous Petersen STC about injected
engines and auto gas. He told me he'd never been able to get an
injected installation to pass all the vapor lock tests, thus the lack of
any Petersen STCs for the IO-XXX engines.
I plan to try auto gas in my RV-10 (IO-540). To try to head off vapor
lock issues I'll have no gascolator, fire sleeved fuel lines with lines
kept as short as possible, and probably blast cooling of the engine
driven fuel pump. And careful flight testing over an airport with one
tank full of good old av ga$.
Tim
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 830 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
Conti, Rick wrote:
>
> I've never owned a plane with an auto-gas STC. How do you refuel the
> plane? I wouldn't image the wings would fit under the canopy of an
> Exxon station.
>
> Thank You
> Rick Conti
> Senior Engineering Manager
> The Boeing Company
> office: 703 - 414 - 6141
> blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Newman [mailto:rnewman(at)lutron.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 2:32 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Autogas for 540
>
>
> Part of my plan is flexibility in choices, I'm using an O-540-E4B5 in
> RV-10.
>
> -Bob Newman
>
>
>
>
>>>>dmasys(at)cox.net 4/27/2006 12:18:42 PM >>>
>
>
> 100LL hit a psychological threshhold at my home airport (JWN) this
> week. It is now at $5 per gallon. This got me thinking again about an
> autogas STC. Had one for my C-182 and flew it happily for 1100 hours on
> autogas, saving more than $10K at 13.5 gal/hr over five years.
>
> Petersen lists autogas STCs for the following variants of the O-540,
> with those having an asterisk needing 91 octane and all others ok on 87
> octane:
> 0-540-B1A5, -B1B5, -B1D5, -B2A5, -B2B5, -B2C5, -B4A5, -B4B5, -A1A*,
> -A1A5*, -A1B5*,
> -A1C5*, -A1D*, -A1D5*, -A2B*, -A3D5*, -A4A5*, -A4B5*, -A4C5*, -A4D5*,
> -D1A5*,
> -E4A5*, -E4B5*, -E4C5*, -G1A5*, -G2A5*, -H1A5*, -H2A5*, -H1A5D*,
> -H2A5D*, -H1B5D*, -H2B5D* -F1B5*
>
> I was going to go with an IO-540 but it might be worth going back to a
> carburator to have a plane that is not hostage to the economics of
> greed, where every time autogas goes up 20 cents a gallon, avgas goes up
> a dollar.
>
> Anyone else planning to run autogas in their Lycosaur?
>
> -Dan Masys
> #40448
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Autogas for 540 |
Umm, err, how do I put this? 100LL is 7.0 RVP. Most summer mogas is
7.6-9.0 RVP. Adding ethanol raises the RVP about 1 point. The higher the
RVP the more hazard of vapor lock. That means mogas with ethanol has a
higher vapor pressure.
Even if you engine is fine with the fuel, how are you going to keep it
in the wet wing tanks after it softens the PRC? Are you going to want to
reseal those tanks every few years?
Eric Panning wrote:
>
> ECi Titan IO-540 kit engine (~ 2007?) is supposed to
> be autofuel capable. This is partly because they are
> using a fuel spider with fixed orifice and not a fuel
> servo with some autogas sensitive components. Still
> they rec 100LL initial for valves. Note this system
> requires a return fuel line. I have built these
> fittings into my tanks just in case. Part of reason
> for return line is to return any vapor to tank.
> Autogas and ethanol autogas in particular has lower
> vapor pressure. Ethanol is also a good solvent for
> lots of things....
>
> Deltahawk claims they sold out 2005 and 2006
> production runs but I have never seen a builder site
> which makes me wonder if they really have that many
> out there. I saw one article that 2005 run was only
> two engines.
>
> A number of builders are looking at rotary engines as
> well.
>
> Eric
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Extra fuel tanks |
Hi Jim,
Just differential numbers for now, since my customers RV-10 doesn't have all
of the fairing on and it isn't painted yet.
This numbers were obtained at 8,000' density altitude at full throttle.
2500 RPM 20 gph
2300 RPM 15 gph +1 knot faster than 2500 RPM
2100 RPM 12 gph -6 knots slower than 2500 RPM
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 04/27/2006 6:15:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
gorejr(at)bellsouth.net writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by:
What kind of speed and fuel burn do you get at these settings? Thanks Jim
Gore
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Extra fuel tanks |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Jim, lets here the airspeed and MP at 8,000 DA, 2500 RPM, 20 gph, 3
blade MT and a Lyco at 260hp. My version was missing your answer to Jim
Gore's request for SPEED data.
John Cox
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Extra fuel tanks
Hi Jim,
Just differential numbers for now, since my customers RV-10 doesn't have
all of the fairing on and it isn't painted yet.
This numbers were obtained at 8,000' density altitude at full throttle.
2500 RPM 20 gph
2300 RPM 15 gph +1 knot faster than 2500 RPM
2100 RPM 12 gph -6 knots slower than 2500 RPM
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 04/27/2006 6:15:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
gorejr(at)bellsouth.net writes:
=09
What kind of speed and fuel burn do you get at these settings?
Thanks Jim Gore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Extra fuel tanks |
Hi John,
The manifold pressure was 23".
Regarding airspeed.
IMHO, the ONLY way to get VALID comparison airspeed numbers between
propellers is to fly them on the same aircraft and engine WITH NO OTHER CHA=
NGES MADE.
I have offered to pay the expenses and provide the 3 blade MT Propeller for=20=
a Hartzell propeller equipped RV-10 to do the testing. I think it says a
GREAT deal that there have been NO TAKERS from RV-10's with the RV-10 Hartz=
ell
propeller.
What are you Hartzell drivers? CHICKEN?
With Best Regards,
Jim Ayers
PS Was that gauntlet to subtle?
In a message dated 04/27/2006 9:22:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com writes:
Jim, lets here the airspeed and MP at 8,000 DA, 2500 RPM, 20 gph, 3 blade M=
T
and a Lyco at 260hp. My version was missing your answer to Jim Gore=E2=80=
=99s
request for SPEED data.
John Cox
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 540 power settings |
Hi All,
I received the following answer from MT Propeller engineering regarding the
question Dick Sipp asked.
"Hi Jim,
As I told you yesterday on the telephone our propeller has no limitations in
respect to rpm and MAP settings, like 28 inch and 2200 rpm. This problem is
only with aluminum propellers.
So, we have no limitations of our propeller operation except the engine
limitations from the engine manufacture still apply.
With best regards,
MT - Propeller Entwicklung GmbH
Martin Albrecht
Engineering"
So I hope this answers your question, Dick.
The engine is the limiting factor with the 3 blade MT Propeller.
For continuous operation; 1800 RPM at 25" mp to 2200 RPM at 29" mp.
Whereas the aluminum blade propeller is the limiting factor on the Lycoming
engine.
And you're right. It is a shame if the propeller manufacturer "placed more
restrictive limits on engine operation than does the engine manufacturer."
Unfortunately, it appears to be a Hartzell problem.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 04/20/2006 8:21:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
rsipp(at)earthlink.net writes:
Jim:
Are the RPM limits you refer to in the second half of your message MT limits
for their propellers?
The Lycoming IO-540-D series charts from the engine operators manual provide
much broader RPM vs. manifold pressure limits.
Above 5500' there is no manifold pressure limitation for any RPM. Below
5500' manifold pressure limits are shown; as an example,
at 1800 RPM 24 inches of manifold pressure is the limitation. At sea level
and 2200 RPM the manifold pressure limit is 28.5", above 2200 RPM there is
no manifold pressure limit.
These charts show that the old wives tale of not operating "oversquare" is
mostly legend and not a problem as far as Lycoming is concerned.
While I am not suggesting that operating continuously at a limitation is
prudent, very efficient operation does occur at full throttle settings and
relatively low RPMs. An added benefit is smoother and quieter operation as well.
It would be a shame if MT placed more restrictive limits on engine operation
than does the engine manufacturer.
Dick Sipp
40065
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Autogas for 540 - autogas vapor pressure |
Hi Kelly, I completely agree. I typed lower but meant
higher just as you described. With a hot tunnel at
altitude potential for vapor lock is high. I think
winter gas has an even higher vapor pressure.
For sealing the tanks I was going to use friction stir
welding - just like the Eclipse jet. Harbor Freight
has a special on one and includes free pocket knife if
you act now.... kidding!
Eric
--- Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>
> Umm, err, how do I put this? 100LL is 7.0 RVP. Most
> summer mogas is
> 7.6-9.0 RVP. Adding ethanol raises the RVP about 1
> point. The higher the
> RVP the more hazard of vapor lock. That means mogas
> with ethanol has a
> higher vapor pressure.
> Even if you engine is fine with the fuel, how are
> you going to keep it
> in the wet wing tanks after it softens the PRC? Are
> you going to want to
> reseal those tanks every few years?
> Eric Panning wrote:
>
> >
> > ECi Titan IO-540 kit engine (~ 2007?) is supposed
> to
> > be autofuel capable. This is partly because they
> are
> > using a fuel spider with fixed orifice and not a
> fuel
> > servo with some autogas sensitive components.
> Still
> > they rec 100LL initial for valves. Note this
> system
> > requires a return fuel line. I have built these
> > fittings into my tanks just in case. Part of
> reason
> > for return line is to return any vapor to tank.
> > Autogas and ethanol autogas in particular has
> lower
> > vapor pressure. Ethanol is also a good solvent for
> > lots of things....
> >
> > Deltahawk claims they sold out 2005 and 2006
> > production runs but I have never seen a builder
> site
> > which makes me wonder if they really have that
> many
> > out there. I saw one article that 2005 run was
> only
> > two engines.
> >
> > A number of builders are looking at rotary engines
> as
> > well.
> >
> > Eric
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Assembly Workshop |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Auto engine conversion |
| From: | "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com> |
I decided to go with an auto conversion, so I yanked the hemi out of my Dodge 1/2
ton pickup. The low end power is great and it will cruise all day without a
hitch. Acceleration and climb are a bit slow, but it really sounds pretty cool.
I am having some cooling problems and am redesigning the air inlets which I
hope will help. It's running mogas without any problems. Overall I think it will
work out OK, but it burns a lot of gas and has cost me a lot. It's probably
the first Dodge pickup running with an IO-540. Ohhhhh! You mean put a car engine
in an airplane and fly around with my family in it? No thanks. :)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=31419#31419
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> |
Hey all -
I'm going through the finish kit items looking at what I need and don't,
and wondered if anyone is planning on using the james cowl? I've heard
(very secondhand info) that the fit was a bit of a chore - just
wondering if anyone's got any firsthand info or thoughts?
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Close Tolerance Bolts |
| From: | "Conti, Rick" <rick.conti(at)boeing.com> |
Recommend Spencer Aircraft
www.apenceraircraft.com
1-800-424-1160 (Jeff)
Washington State
AN175-24A for $6.95. No traceability paperwork back to the
manufacturer, which is not an issue for me. It is in fact a close
tolerance bolt. Same bolt elsewhere is $22.00
Thank You
Rick Conti
Senior Engineering Manager
The Boeing Company
office: 703 - 414 - 6141
blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Andair 20X7T fuel selector extension |
I just asked this question via email...
Sorry for the dely on replying to you, we have just got back from the Sun and
Fun airshow. In response to your query,as you already have the valve you will
require an EX-7 extention upgrade kit which although can be ordered from our
website if you contact us via e-mail we can process this directly. The price of
the EX-7 is 50 (50x1.73=$86.50)+ shipping .this is for a extention kit with a
straight extention, if you require any UJ's or cuplers, or longer extention
tubes prices may vary. Thank-you for your enquiry, if we can be of any further
assistance please do not hesitate to contact us. We look forward to hearing
from you.
Kind Regards,
Owen Phillips
Andair LTD
www.andair.co.uk
Tel +44 (0)2392 473954
Fax +44 (0)2392 473956
...snip...
Sorry if this has already been covered......I'm having a heck of a time finding
the six inch extension for the Andair valve. Do I have to get it from
the folks
in the UK? I tried the distributors and listed in the US with no luck.
I bought the FS20X7. Is the extension universal?
...snip...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Auto engine conversion with good links for Lycoming operation |
> --- "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)"
> wrote:
>
>> I still think that it would be an
> > excellent engine for any of the 2 seat RV's. Not
> > flaming Egg, just stating my opinions along with
> > some facts.
It is amusing to see the Subie dialog applied to the -10 recapitulate virtually
every issue that played out on the 2 seat RV lists over the past several years.
Only difference was that the risk scenario was only one other soul on board,
rather than three.
It was the case that since dyno figures were never part of the discussion, most
of the inference about horsepower was based on fuel flows.
For me, the big deciding factors in an auto engine conversion are 1) no longevity
data for years to come and 2) the resale stigma. This sucker is gonna be a
substantial capital investment, and if putting a non-aircraft engine does anything
reliably to an experimental, it is that it reliably decreases its resale
value.
That said, I am very glad there are pioneers who want to do this. (in recognition
that the pioneers take the arrows and the settlers get the land).
-Dan Masys
#40448
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net> |
Cc: Tim Olson
---- Tim Olson wrote:
> It just doesn't have the roll and
> ultra-light feel that those planes would. The -10 controls
> get VERY heavy at higher airspeeds. I don't think you'd
> have a very easy time rolling the -10 at 140+ Kts. Your
> stick takes a LOT of force in roll at those speeds.
The controls get increasingly heavy on my -7A at increasing airspeeds also, especially
above 180 KIAS. In fact, in power on descents when it rather easily gets
to its 200kt Vne, the heavy stick forces are as reliable an the airspeed indicator.
The 200hp -7A is already like the -10 in that it is more nose-heavy
than the 180hp 2 seat RV's, and it is for that reason a little more stable IFR
platform than the lightweight engine + prop combinations.
-Dan Masys
#40448
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Extra fuel tanks |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
The question remains... What was the airspeed in knots. I'm not engaging
in the banter about valid airspeed. Just your number Please! The rest
of the dialog is well known to the group about identical aircraft,
identical engines, identical power settings. Am I the only one that has
notices dozens of flying RV-10s and everyone is hiding their personal
performance numbers?
About the only positive response has been on empty weight. No one is
identifying their change in CG from the factory spec. There are lots of
question on component placement that would help builders if there was
less secrecy. At least Tim mentioned he did not have the loading
problem as quoted by VANS. We should all be able to ask, "And what did
he do to solve that obstacle?"
What is it about you MT prop twirlers that keeps data so close to the
vest. I can't make out your whisper, could you shout it once again
please... Airspeed that is. I got the chicken part. Today is Friday and
it smells fishy.
John - $-00.02
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 8:09 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Extra fuel tanks
Hi John,
The manifold pressure was 23".
Regarding airspeed.
IMHO, the ONLY way to get VALID comparison airspeed numbers between
propellers is to fly them on the same aircraft and engine WITH NO OTHER
CHANGES MADE.
I have offered to pay the expenses and provide the 3 blade MT Propeller
for a Hartzell propeller equipped RV-10 to do the testing. I think it
says a GREAT deal that there have been NO TAKERS from RV-10's with the
RV-10 Hartzell propeller.
What are you Hartzell drivers? CHICKEN?
With Best Regards,
Jim Ayers
PS Was that gauntlet to subtle?
In a message dated 04/27/2006 9:22:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com writes:
Jim, lets here the airspeed and MP at 8,000 DA, 2500 RPM, 20
gph, 3 blade MT and a Lyco at 260hp. My version was missing your answer
to Jim Gore's request for SPEED data.
John Cox
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Auto engine conversion with good links for Lycoming operation |
Dan,
I agree - Cessna is the way to go. If it was good
enough for grandpa it's good enough for me. Would you
believe people are putting "experimental" airplanes
together in their garage??? Some of these people
started building before the supplier even finished the
kit or quoted the final cost.
I've even read that some of the early pioneers started
with just a bunch of raw materials and vague plans.
Why they didn't wait for the pre-punched kits is a
mystery.... :)
I'm sure the Cessna and Piper owners discuss the risk
scenario of building your own plane all the time.
Acceptable risk is a complex decision that ultimately
everyone has to make for themselves. I think for most
builders, the risk tradeoffs are primarily made in
panels. VFR/IFR/full IFR/ Glass cockpit/ autopilot/
Mode-S Traffic/Oxygen/ TCAS/ TAWS/ Forward looking IR/
? How much is enough? Does the answer change if it is
2 or 4 souls? Another risk is too much plane and not
enough money left for gas...
Agree on resale value and lack of dyno data. I think
the aquisition cost can be lower but the resale value
is lower still. Even dyno is not sufficient as
ultimate performance also depends on drag - tied
closely to cooling drag, etc.
Have a great weekend,
Eric
40150 - Working on mating center and forward section
of fuselage.
--- Dan Masys wrote:
>
>
> > --- "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)"
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I still think that it would be an
> > > excellent engine for any of the 2 seat RV's.
> Not
> > > flaming Egg, just stating my opinions along with
> > > some facts.
>
> It is amusing to see the Subie dialog applied to the
> -10 recapitulate virtually every issue that played
> out on the 2 seat RV lists over the past several
> years. Only difference was that the risk scenario
> was only one other soul on board, rather than three.
>
>
> It was the case that since dyno figures were never
> part of the discussion, most of the inference about
> horsepower was based on fuel flows.
>
> For me, the big deciding factors in an auto engine
> conversion are 1) no longevity data for years to
> come and 2) the resale stigma. This sucker is gonna
> be a substantial capital investment, and if putting
> a non-aircraft engine does anything reliably to an
> experimental, it is that it reliably decreases its
> resale value.
>
> That said, I am very glad there are pioneers who
> want to do this. (in recognition that the pioneers
> take the arrows and the settlers get the land).
>
> -Dan Masys
> #40448
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neal George" <neal(at)appaero.com> |
| Subject: | Andair 20X7T fuel selector extension |
Jay =96
I try to keep a few extensions on hand, but I=92m out at the moment.
I=92ll
be happy to order more, but I need to order at least a dozen to get the
shipping cost down to a reasonable level. So=85
RV-10=92ers =96
If you need an EX-7 Extension kit for your FS20X7 fuel valve, or
anything else from Andair (a specific valve, different fittings for your
valve, gascolator, etc) please let me know. I=92d like to place an
order
early next week.
Neal E. George
244 Andrews Street
Maxwell AFB, AL 36113
Home - 334-262-8993
Cell - 334-546-2033
I just asked this question via email...
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:55:57 +0100
Sorry for the dely on replying to you, we have just got back from the
Sun and
Fun airshow. In response to your query,as you already have the valve you
will
require an EX-7 extention upgrade kit which although can be ordered from
our
website if you contact us via e-mail we can process this directly. The
price of
the EX-7 is =A350 (50x1.73=3D$86.50)+ shipping .this is for a extention
kit
with a
straight extention, if you require any UJ's or cuplers, or longer
extention
tubes prices may vary. Thank-you for your enquiry, if we can be of any
further
assistance please do not hesitate to contact us. We look forward to
hearing
from you.
Kind Regards,
Owen Phillips
Andair LTD
www.andair.co.uk
Tel +44 (0)2392 473954
Fax +44 (0)2392 473956
...snip...
Sorry if this has already been covered......I'm having a heck of a time
finding
the six inch extension for the Andair valve. Do I have to get it
from
the folks
in the UK? I tried the distributors and listed in the US with no
luck.
I bought the FS20X7. Is the extension universal?
...snip...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Andair 20X7T fuel selector extension |
| From: | "N777TY" <microsmurfer(at)yahoo.com> |
I need to ask this (for a friend) -- is this extension required? Why are folks
putting it? I think Tim O. didn't put one in.. What's the final answer? :)
--------
RV-7A
N777TY (res)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=31514#31514
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | cowling alignment |
On the earlier RV models it was common to align the cowling so that the
top edge of the forward cowling was 1/8" or so lower than the prop
spinner. The theory was that the engine would settle about that amount
in operation and "sag" into good alignment.
Of those flying, did any of you do this? If not have you noticed and
settling of the engine in the early operations?
Like many subjects there was always a good bit of debate about whether
or not this settling happened and if the technique worked or was
necessary.
Thanks
Dick Sipp
40065
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Auto engine conversion |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Andair 20X7T fuel selector extension |
Neal,
If you don=92t mind keeping one in stock for a while, I=92ll be needing
one in a
couple of months or so. I=92m just a little south of you in Enterprise.
Rob
#392
QB delivery next week!
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neal George
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 7:11 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Andair 20X7T fuel selector extension
Jay =96
I try to keep a few extensions on hand, but I=92m out at the moment.
I=92ll be
happy to order more, but I need to order at least a dozen to get the
shipping cost down to a reasonable level. So=85
RV-10=92ers =96
If you need an EX-7 Extension kit for your FS20X7 fuel valve, or
anything
else from Andair (a specific valve, different fittings for your valve,
gascolator, etc) please let me know. I=92d like to place an order early
next
week.
Neal E. George
244 Andrews Street
Maxwell AFB, AL 36113
Home - 334-262-8993
Cell - 334-546-2033
I just asked this question via email...
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:55:57 +0100
Sorry for the dely on replying to you, we have just got back from the
Sun
and
Fun airshow. In response to your query,as you already have the valve you
will
require an EX-7 extention upgrade kit which although can be ordered from
our
website if you contact us via e-mail we can process this directly. The
price
of
the EX-7 is =A350 (50x1.73=3D$86.50)+ shipping .this is for a extention
kit with
a
straight extention, if you require any UJ's or cuplers, or longer
extention
tubes prices may vary. Thank-you for your enquiry, if we can be of any
further
assistance please do not hesitate to contact us. We look forward to
hearing
from you.
Kind Regards,
Owen Phillips
Andair LTD
www.andair.co.uk
Tel +44 (0)2392 473954
Fax +44 (0)2392 473956
...snip...
Sorry if this has already been covered......I'm having a heck of a time
finding
the six inch extension for the Andair valve. Do I have to get it
from
the folks
in the UK? I tried the distributors and listed in the US with no
luck.
I bought the FS20X7. Is the extension universal?
...snip...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV10-List :Fuel Economy |
Tim & list:
Your comments on the operation of your airplane are great, good motivation
and insight.
With all the valid concern lately over fuel costs there are some operational
techniques that will help save fuel.
Many folks are uncomfortable with cruising "over square" (with the manifold
pressure higher than the RPM). This type of operation is permitted by
Lycoming (with limitations at low altitude) and does provide better fuel
economy. A side benefit is quieter operation and often less vibration. For
example, the same 65% best economy mixture power can be produced at both of
these fuel flows:
2000 RPM & 11.8 GPH
2600 RPM & 13.3 GPH
(page 3-35 operators manual)
the difference of course is the throttle setting. Think of shifting into
overdrive in a car.
the same 65% at best power mixture results in fuel flows of 13.6 & 15.2 GPH
for the respective RPM settings which demonstrates the importance of leaning
below 75%.
As for propellers, this should probably be in the catagory of whether or not
to prime, everyone has good reasons for their choice. In my case I'll be a
part of the minority using an MT; I'll accept a few knots less IF that is
the case for the smooooth, quiet operation. I understand that the 3 blade
props also become more efficient as altitude increases which is hopefully
where much of cruising in an airplane like the 10 will be done.
Dick Sipp
#40065
Many years ago a respected RV test pilot, Chuck Berthe, wrote a great
article in Kit Planes comparing constant speed and fixed pitch propellers.
The article contained lots of good cost calculations. I asked him if he
flew his airplane "oversquare" his answer was "as much as I can as much as I
can."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Extra fuel tanks |
Hi Tim,
A little oops here.
The Hartzell RV-10 propeller is unique to the RV-10. And only an RV-10
builder can buy one.
Best Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 04/28/2006 8:39:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Tim(at)MyRV10.com writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson
(Stuff Cut)
Maybe it should go the other way....offer a Hartzell to someone
flying an MT. It's a cheaper prop to ship, and to buy to send them.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net> |
Rob K -
Do you guys have your extra info on the 3400/3500 for dissemination yet?
I'm wondering if you'll have a simple CDI needle presentation, or if I need
to plan on the external CDI for ILS. Or, can I legally fly a GPS-overlaid
ILS on the 480 screen if there is no LNAV approach into the airport? What
would really be nice is if AOPA could publish some figures on when they
expect all ILSs to have an overlaid LNAV approach, which would make the ILS
moot, redundant, outdated, cost-prohibitive, etc..
Rob Wright
#392
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
Hi Paul,
MT Propeller will design a two blade, or four blade, or whatever you feel
you want that is reasonable.
They can even provide an aluminum 2 blade or 3 blade propeller.
They designed a 3 blade "natural composite" propeller for the RV-10, because
their engineering analysis showed this provided the best performance and
overall characteristics. Especially being 18 pounds lighter than the 2 blade
Hartzell.
A 2 blade "natural composite" MT propeller would weigh about 1 pound lighted
than the 3 blade propeller. The 2 blade hub is much bigger to handle bigger
blades required, and the 2nd order harmonic vibration present with a 2 blade
propeller.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 04/28/2006 6:06:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Paul Walter"
Is it correct that MT are manufacturing a two bladed composite prop for the
10
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: My 2 Cents on the Landing Gear |
Part number / description below from _www.mcmaster.com_
(http://www.mcmaster.com/) :
Line Quantity Part Number Description Unit Price Total Price
Ships 1 1
Each _30565A304_
(http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?partnum=30565A304&pagenum=2291)
Hvy Duty Metric Hss Jobbers' Twist Drill Bit 7.9 mm Size, 114mm O'all
Length, 81mm Flute Length
$4.13 $4.13
In a message dated 4/28/2006 9:08:23 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
gommone7(at)bellsouth.net writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by:
Hi,can you post the par number for mc Master regarding the .311 drill bit.
Hugo
>
> From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
> Date: 2006/04/28 Fri AM 09:59:31 EDT
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: My 2 Cents on the Landing Gear
>
>
>
> For those of you that haven't gotten to drilling the landing gear mount
yet,
> I just wanted to put in my 2 cents as well. Please, don't take this the
> wrong way, it's just another way to solve the same problem: I followed
Van's
> instructions exactly and used a .311 / 7.9 mm drill to mount the landing
gear. It
> was easy, I didn't have any problems, and the bolts fit great. I bought
the
> drill from McMaster-Carr for $8.63 including shipping.
>
> Jim
> 40134
>
> In a message dated 4/28/2006 5:39:04 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
> flysrv10(at)gmail.com writes:
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Rob Kermanj"
>
> You can use a rechargable drill with the reamer. Oil the bit well. I
> did not have to drill before the reamer. In fact, I found it hard to
> have space to drill anything from the top side.
>
> The reamers blades have a step to transition to the shank. Since I
> used the reamer backward, I had to grind a slope to be able to pull
> the reamer from the bottom of the hole through the top.
>
> Find this reamer and if you want, call me and I will walk you through.
>
> do not archive.
> 772-460-3907
> Rob Kermanj
>
> On 4/27/06, Conti, Rick wrote:
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Conti, Rick"
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > I'm not sure I understand. I've never used a reamer and just realized I
> > shouldn't use an air drill with a reamer. Maybe the hand wrench from
my
> > tap & die set.
> >
> > What under size hole did you drill before using the .311" reamer?
> > Please explain the grinding of the shoulders at the reamer stem side to
> > be able to pull up and through.
> >
> > Does any of this make sense without using a close tolerance bolt?
> >
> > Bill suggested using a .3125 reamer with a 5/16" close tolerance bolt.
> > All of which sounds good.
> >
> > Thank You
> > Rick Conti
> > Senior Engineering Manager
> > The Boeing Company
> > office: 703 - 414 - 6141
> > blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rob Kermanj [mailto:flysrv10(at)gmail.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 10:30 AM
> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: My 2 Cents on the Landing Gear
> >
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Rob Kermanj"
> >
> > I used the same reamer as you have purchased. I found it easier to
> > insert the reamer from the button, chuck it and pull it through the
> > hole. If you decide to do this, you may need to grind the blade
> > shoulders at the reamer stem side to be able to pull up through.
> >
> >
> > On 4/26/06, Conti, Rick wrote:
> > > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Conti, Rick"
> > >
> > > Whenever I start a new "kit", I review the instructions several times,
> > > once to ensure I have the necessary tools and parts. The .311" drill
> > > bit appeared to be a problem. I called Van's and received an
> > > interesting answer: I was told a 5/16 bit would be okay. I haven't
> > > installed the gear yet and after reading about loose landing gear I
> > had
> > > second thoughts. I received my .311" reamer from McMaster-Carr
> > (thanks
> > > for the info) yesterday. But is has occurred to me, that 5/16" would
> > be
> > > fine provided the bolt matched. Drilling with a 5/16" bit though the
> > > leg and support would not cause a problem. The problem would be from
> > an
> > > undersized bolt. Would everyone agree 5/16" would be okay with a
> > proper
> > > (precise fit) bolt?
> > >
> > > Thank You
> > > Rick Conti
> > > Senior Engineering Manager
> > > The Boeing Company
> > > office: 703 - 414 - 6141
> > > blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jim "Scooter" McGrew
> jsmcgrew(at)aol.com
>
>
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
jsmcgrew(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Torque Wrench Extension |
I just came across a great idea that I want to share with the group. There
are a few times that a torque wrench won't fit on the nut/bolt (namely engine
mounting bolts, prop nuts, supporting the starter/alternator wires on the
engine case). Instead of purchasing expensive extensions or welding something
up
I found that if you take an ordinary combination wrench and put a bolt/nut
with washers through the closed end you have a perfect extension. And you get
to keep your wrench intact. See photo below.
You'll need to set your torque wrench to the appropriate setting when using
an extension. If you don't trust yourself with a calculator here's a website
that will do the math for you:
_http://www.norbar.com/torquewrenchextensioncalculator.php_
(http://www.norbar.com/torquewrenchextensioncalculator.php)
This is too easy, but I struggled with a few of these before I came across
this idea, so I figure it's worth sharing.
Jim McGrew
#40134 - Fire Wall Forward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench Extension |
Jim, that is a genius idea! I cobbled something together when
I did my prop bolts, and used an online torque calculator to
verify my own calculations on torque, but this wrench extension
is pure genius compared to what I did. I'm going to put this
directly into the tips section on my site for permanent viewing
and for those who only get the daily digest.
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/generaltips.html
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
JSMcGrew(at)aol.com wrote:
> I just came across a great idea that I want to share with the group.
> There are a few times that a torque wrench won't fit on the nut/bolt
> (namely engine mounting bolts, prop nuts, supporting the
> starter/alternator wires on the engine case). Instead of purchasing
> expensive extensions or welding something up I found that if you take an
> ordinary combination wrench and put a bolt/nut with washers through the
> closed end you have a perfect extension. And you get to keep your wrench
> intact. See photo below.
>
> You'll need to set your torque wrench to the appropriate setting when
> using an extension. If you don't trust yourself with a calculator here's
> a website that will do the math for you:
>
> http://www.norbar.com/torquewrenchextensioncalculator.php
>
> This is too easy, but I struggled with a few of these before I came
> across this idea, so I figure it's worth sharing.
>
> Jim McGrew
> #40134 - Fire Wall Forward
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench Extension |
While it is an inventive way to do it, I wonder about the impact of the
angle on the wrench shown, and might point out that a set of crow's foot
wrenches from Sears isn't all that much money. The crow's foot works
fine on Hartzel props.
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Jim, that is a genius idea! I cobbled something together when
> I did my prop bolts, and used an online torque calculator to
> verify my own calculations on torque, but this wrench extension
> is pure genius compared to what I did. I'm going to put this
> directly into the tips section on my site for permanent viewing
> and for those who only get the daily digest.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/tips/generaltips.html
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench Extension |
Jesse,
This falls in the category of waxing philosophical on a subject and that
doesn't help get my plane in the air any faster BUT I'm totally with you. I=20=
struggled with that as well so here goes.
If you are working with a beam type torque wrench you must hold it on the
handle and center the handle on its pivot in order to get an accurate readi=
ng,
in this case it is easy to understand why the calculation needs the torque
wrench length. With the micrometer or "click" type torque wrenches you don'=
t
necessarily have to hold it by the handle to get an accurate torque because=
the
spring is set to the value you want - that is, unless you are using an
extension.
Hang with me and please excuse the math, this is how I understand it.
Consider the following 2 cases:
You are using a 20 inch long micrometer type torque wrench set at 100 in-lb=
s
attached to a 10 inch extension.
1) If you hold the torque wrench by the handle you must apply 5 lbs of forc=
e
to create 100 in-lbs of moment (torque) at the head and cause it to click (=
5
lbs x 20"). At the end of your 10" extension you are creating 150 in-lbs of=
torque (5 lbs x 30 inches).
2) If you "choke" up on the torque wrench and hold it, say, 10" from the
head you must apply 10 lbs of force in order to get it to click at 100 in-lb=
s.
Now at the end of your 10" extension you are applying 200 in-lbs of torque (=
10
lbs x 20 inches)
As far as using the extension other than straight - I'm not an A&P, but I a=
m
an engineer and the math tells me that bending the torque wrench does make =20=
a
difference. Your moment arm now becomes the hypotenuse of the triangle
created by the torque wrench and extension. The further you bend the extens=
ion the
shorter your moment arm becomes and, thus, the less torque you have at the
end of your extension. This is a minor correction until the angle starts
getting beyond about 45 degrees. I will skip the geometry involved. Conside=
r the
case if you bent the extension all the way back toward you, aligned with th=
e
torque wrench... now the moment arm is equal to the length of the torque wr=
April 11, 2006 - April 29, 2006
RV10-Archive.digest.vol-bc