RV10-Archive.digest.vol-bf
June 02, 2006 - June 23, 2006
> Not sure, but *possibly* taking the family to KCOD to see Yellowstone
> for Saturday and Sunday this weekend. Since the RV-10 brings it
> down to a short 5.5 hr trip. Any good comments about the
> area/airstrip/lodging/weather this time of year?
> Tim
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | fuel level senders |
The Plans call for a maximum of 1/8" clearance between the full empty
position and the bottom skin, and maximum of 1/8" clearance between the full
full position and the top skin. Since the plans call this a maximum
clearance, is there a reason why not to have the sender rest on the bottom
skin if the tank actually gets that low on fuel? I'm thinking that minimum
could be 0" and max of 1/8".
The only "reason" I could think of would be dissimilar metals touching (fuel
sender wire and bottom skin), but even this would be mitigated through the
coating of fuel on the two metals.
What have others done? I currently get full empty and full full Ohm readings
just as the sender contacts the bottom/top, so I'm not concerned with
accuracy.
Rob Wright
#392 QB Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pro Seal Slop |
Dude...that looks really good...your work as far as I can see is first rate.
This stuff gets stiffened up like hard rubber so no real danger of it
falling off. Call me if you want any pointers...happy to help if I can.
Cheers...
Evan Johnson
www.evansaviationproducts.com
(530)247-0375
(530)351-1776 cell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Carpenter" <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 4:35 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Pro Seal Slop
> Hindsight being what it is...
>
> I don't think I've done enough masking on my first fuel tank, and now
> have bits of pro seal along the non-mating edges. To what extent
> have those of you past this point cleaned it up... and what are the
> concerns about it breaking off and plugging up the fuel system?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
> Awash in Pro Seal and acetone
>
>
----
----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
I don't know what it "standard", but we went over each seam and coated the
entire flange of the rib and onto the skin on every part. We used a lot
more than that.
That being said, on N256H early on we found a tiny little piece of
something, possibly pro seal, in one of the injectors which was causing that
cylinder to run cold and lose power, of course, because the fuel couldn't
get there. We really don't know what it was, but haven't had problems
since.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 7:35 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Pro Seal Slop
Hindsight being what it is...
I don't think I've done enough masking on my first fuel tank, and now
have bits of pro seal along the non-mating edges. To what extent
have those of you past this point cleaned it up... and what are the
concerns about it breaking off and plugging up the fuel system?
Thank you,
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Awash in Pro Seal and acetone
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net> |
Jeff,
Your tanks look at least as good as my QB ones, and I've seen some stray
dripping inside my tanks.
Rob Wright
#392
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 9:56 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Pro Seal Slop
I don't know what it "standard", but we went over each seam and coated the
entire flange of the rib and onto the skin on every part. We used a lot
more than that.
That being said, on N256H early on we found a tiny little piece of
something, possibly pro seal, in one of the injectors which was causing that
cylinder to run cold and lose power, of course, because the fuel couldn't
get there. We really don't know what it was, but haven't had problems
since.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 7:35 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Pro Seal Slop
Hindsight being what it is...
I don't think I've done enough masking on my first fuel tank, and now
have bits of pro seal along the non-mating edges. To what extent
have those of you past this point cleaned it up... and what are the
concerns about it breaking off and plugging up the fuel system?
Thank you,
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Awash in Pro Seal and acetone
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pro Seal Slop |
You do not have a problem at all ,,,,on my 6 I had about 5 times more
proseal than that.....I was paranoid abot leaks so dont stress. If anything
people can put not enough on!
regards Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Carpenter" <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 9:35 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Pro Seal Slop
> Hindsight being what it is...
>
> I don't think I've done enough masking on my first fuel tank, and now
> have bits of pro seal along the non-mating edges. To what extent
> have those of you past this point cleaned it up... and what are the
> concerns about it breaking off and plugging up the fuel system?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
> Awash in Pro Seal and acetone
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hans Conser <hansconser(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV10-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 06/02/06 |
Tim wrote:
>>
>> Not sure, but *possibly* taking the family to KCOD to see Yellowstone
>> for Saturday and Sunday this weekend. Since the RV-10 brings it
>> down to a short 5.5 hr trip. Any good comments about the
>> area/airstrip/lodging/weather this time of year?
>> Tim
Tim, I highly recommend Driggs Idaho (DIJ) for a food stop. It has the
nicest FBO and onfield restaurant for a little airport that I have ever
seen. I just flew over Yellowstone and had lunch there about three
weeks ago. I have heard that people actually drive from Jackson Hole
to come to the restaurant. There is also a small (and free) plane
museum with a handful of neat planes and a helicopter on display. If
you are into health food, there is a healthly food restaurant in Driggs
called "Miso Hungry" that is pretty good. There are loaner cars
available.
Hans Conser
172 flier
Bozeman MT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Grimstad" <bldgrv10450(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: PDX area builders |
Steve
I would be glad to show you my progress. You are probably way ahead of me. I
have the spray booth set up now. Nearly complete priming the tailcone now. I
have completed all the tailcone subassemblies (got board with priming) and
now I'm ready to put it together. Looking forward to starting the fuselage
in about a month.
Paul Grimstad, RV-10 #40450
call my cell: 503-849-2123 I'm working close to my shop
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darton Steve" <sfdarton(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 2:51 PM
Subject: RV10-List: PDX area builders
>
> Any one in the Tigard Oregon area that would like to
> entertain a visit from a 10 builder? I have some time
> this evening or Saturday morning.
> Steve 40212
>
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Hukill" <cjhukill(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Rear seat vs dual zone front heat |
As I install my tunnel components, it occurs to me that I don't think
I've ever been in a single engine airplane that has separate controlled
rear seat heat, but every time I fly with my significant other, she's
usually freezing if I'm comfortable, or I'm too hot when she's just
right. Has anyone besides myself considered having a separate left/right
front heat, and let the warm air find itself aft, like in most other
airplanes? This will solve my issue of separate zones, as well as the
rudder cable clearance issues, and the hot tunnel syndrome. Could you
folks with flying 10s let me know what your thoughts are? Thanks
Chris Hukill
Slowly working QB fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Hukill" <cjhukill(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Rear seat vs dual zone front heat |
As I install my tunnel components, it occurs to me that I don't think
I've ever been in a single engine airplane that has separate controlled
rear seat heat, but every time I fly with my significant other, she's
usually freezing if I'm comfortable, or I'm too hot when she's just
right. Has anyone besides myself considered having a separate left/right
front heat, and let the warm air find itself aft, like in most other
airplanes? This will solve my issue of separate zones, as well as the
rudder cable clearance issues, and the hot tunnel syndrome. Could you
folks with flying 10s let me know what your thoughts are? Thanks
Chris Hukill
Slowly working QB fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Enclosure Support |
Dear Listers,
Over the years, I have resisted the urge to enable enclosure support on the Matronics
Lists for a number of reasons relating to performance, capacity, capability,
and security. However, its now 2006 and most everyone using email these
days is on an email client that, at some level, supports the viewing and handling
of enclosures. I get a fair amount of email each month from people on the
various Lists asking why their posts of this or that picture didn't go through.
Back quite a while ago by popular request, I enabled enclosure support for a few
Lists such as the RV10-List, Kolb-List, and the Tailwind-List. Contrary to
my fears, there really hasn't been any significant issues on these Lists relating
to the advent of enclosure support and for the most part, members have policed
themselves well with respect to the size of things they have posted.
Having enclosures enabled on some Lists and not others has given me a fair amount
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So, for these reasons, I've have decided to go ahead and enable limited enclosure
posting on all of the email Lists at Matronics. This will not only increase
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Here are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics Lists:
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All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
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Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
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Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdalton77" <jdalton77(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Second sub-kit recommendations> |
Greetings,
I'm closing in on completing the tail kit for our -10 and am getting
ready to order the next subkit?
I was planning on getting the wings (all slo-build) but now am leaning
towards to fuse kit.
Any suggestions on which would be better?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdalton77" <jdalton77(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Tricks for inserting long hinge rods |
Anyone have any tricks for inserting the long hinge rod that attaches the
trim tab to the elevators? I'm done with the first elevator but had a heck
of a time getting the rod in to connect the two parts.
Anyone do anything to make it easier?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Second sub-kit recommendations> |
There are some trade-offs. The wings are just plain BORING! And then you
have to do 2 of everything! There's nothing too complicated in the
wings, and the fact that you build 2 of everything gives you some
'experience' to leverage the second part. The Tanks and the ProSeal are
messy (REALLY MESSY) but pay me now or pay me later if your going Slo-build
On the other hand, the fuse plans are not as clearly written, and as
others have mentioned they assume you know that you should match drill,
deburr, and dimple parts, and they don't explicitly call out all of
these steps all of the time. The Fuse plans appear to hve been written
by different authors for different sections, some adaptation to their
style/language is required. The Fuse is more Fun IMO, because it
constantly 'grows' and you get some positive feedback as you complete
sections and steps.
On the other hand, by the time you get to the Fuse you should have your
riveting skills pretty well honed. coming off of the Empenage, I felt
good about my riveting, but after completing the Wings, I felt much
better. There are a fair # of AN470-4 rivets in the Fuse and you need to
be/get comfortable with these.
The Center Section of the wing spar is critical to the Fuse build, I
don't know if they would ship you just the center section (as these are
matched with the wing spars). Or if they would require you to purchase
the entire wing spar kit w/ the Fuse.
When you get to the Fuse you start to have to begin to make several
decisions, engine type, cowl, electrical system, prop, panel and
contents, seats, etc. Many of these decisions carry some healthy price
tags with them. If you want to delay the $ outlay that would favor
building the wings 1st. As the decisions that accompany them are
'relatively' minor.
Just my thoughts I'm sure there are other views as well.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
jdalton77 wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I'm closing in on completing the tail kit for our -10 and am getting
> ready to order the next subkit?
>
> I was planning on getting the wings (all slo-build) but now am leaning
> towards to fuse kit.
>
> Any suggestions on which would be better?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tricks for inserting long hinge rods |
Slightly point and round the end of the rod prior to inserting. It should go right
in, don't forget to drill the safety wire hole.
Rick S.
40185
Finish/Fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Second sub-kit recommendations> |
Get the wings and get the proseal out of the way!!
----- Original Message -----
From: jdalton77
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 1:05 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Second sub-kit recommendations>
Greetings,
I'm closing in on completing the tail kit for our -10 and am getting
ready to order the next subkit?
I was planning on getting the wings (all slo-build) but now am leaning
towards to fuse kit.
Any suggestions on which would be better?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Edgerton" <weeav8ter(at)grandecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rear seat vs dual zone front heat |
Chris,
I have the same problem with my wife on the hot and cold issue. We
installed on her side a flipper type damper into the opening of the heat
outlet, like you do on your fire place, and she will be able to close it
if she gets to hot. Usually that's the case with us, she's to warm so I
had to close off the heat and then I would freeze.
Wayne Edgerton #40336
getting close to put on the landing gears
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Second sub-kit recommendations> |
If you want to build the fuselage next, you willl need the center spar
section that comes with the wing kit. The center spar section is match
drilled to the wing spars so they ship it with the wing kit.
If you really want to do the fuse next, I think you'll need to buy both
the wing and fuse kit so you have the necessary center spar parts available.
-Jim 40384 Flaps. (Man those wings get heavy after a while...)
jdalton77 wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I'm closing in on completing the tail kit for our -10 and am getting
> ready to order the next subkit?
>
> I was planning on getting the wings (all slo-build) but now am leaning
> towards to fuse kit.
>
> Any suggestions on which would be better?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Today's X/C To Black Hills |
| From: | "Jim & Julie Wade" <jwadejr(at)hughes.net> |
Hi Tim
If you are not running Gami injectors, you might want to get thier test sheet on
comparing injectors inflight. I think you can download it from their web site.
YOu start leaning slowly and check the temps on all six cylinders as you lean.
You end up with a good idea on how each injector is doing. Not everyone need
Gami's, but most do, inorder to get the temp spread close enough. I have run
Gami's in my 210 for a long time. When you run lean of peak, you can up the
power setting to compensate for the HP loss at lean of peak. You won't lose as
much speed, and the engine likes it!!!! I plan to check mine as soon as I get
it good and broken in and will put in Gami's if needed. With fuel costs, you
can pay for a set of Gami's in no time.
Blue Skies
Jim
40383
Through building!!! Just paint and assembly now.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=38462#38462
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Second sub-kit recommendations> |
| From: | "egohr1" <EGOHR86(at)alumni.carnegiemellon.edu> |
Just my $.02. I am just about to finish the ailerons. My skills have gotten much
better building the wings, and a would not want to have a finished fuse sitting
waiting for wings.
Also am building both wings at once, this has cut the time due to economy of scale
on setups.
--------
eric gohr
EGOHR86(at)alumni.carnegiemellon.edu
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=38466#38466
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Reynolds <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Tabs |
I made a "portable" fuel tank tab for my RV-6A. Using my FuelHawk
gage it was easy to bend the tab to the new fuel capacity.
Don't for get to add the string!
Richard Reynolds
Norfolk, VA
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LIKE2LOOP(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | HS done! Elevators next |
Here is my HS, "flying" from the garage ceiling.
I closed the rudder with the new version of the Proseal, in the self mix
caulk tube. Very easy to work with, lots of extra mixed material wasted.....
clean up is easy if you dont touch the stuff. I was able to dispense
directly to the inside surface of the right skin, then place the trailing edge
piece
a few clecos from underneath, and add a layer of proseal and then the left
skin, without touching the stuff.
Steve
Stephen Blank RV-10 Builder #40499 Cessna 170B flyer
766 SE River Lane Trimming elevator ribs........
Port St. Lucie, FL 34983
772-475-5556 cell - evenings and weekends
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Formation fun in the Fraser Valley |
We've always had the ability to enclose pics on the RV-10 list but
please
consider the problems associated with the increase in message size when
you
enclose pics. I reposted the formation pic (very impressive) after using
the
powertoy suggested by Matt and with one click it reduced the formation
pic
from 200K to 50K. I think it would be a good idea for us to reduce pic
size
whenever possible.
Albert Gardner
40422
Yuma, AZ
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Rob Prior (rv7)
Subject: RV-List: Formation fun in the Fraser Valley
Since we now have this fancy attachment system, it seems a waste not to
at
least try it. This was taken yesterday while flying between Langley, BC
and Chilliwack, BC.
-Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Baggage door fit |
| From: | "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com> |
I built my baggage door a few months ago and was very happy with the way
it came out. I got around to do the final installation this weekend and
quite honestly it looked very second rate. I don't remember too much
previous discussion on the list other than the lower back corner was
'pushed in' somewhat and this can be fixed with a shim. I also had the
same problem as Tom experienced, where the door was flush at each end,
but bowed out by more than 1/8" in the top middle. I thought that the
frame rib was shaped to the curve of the fuse skin, so did not flute to
straighten. I spent about an hour last night using finger pressure to
almost eliminate the bow by massaging the door skin flush with the fuse.
The baggage door seems to be one area in particular where some shared
experiences would be useful. How many have actually come out 'spot on'
without some remedial action??
cheers,
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom Gesele
Sent: Friday, 2 June 2006 8:32 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Baggage door fit
I seem to recall that others had a problem with the fit of their baggage
door so figured I'd pass this along.
On the initial fit to the fuselage, discovered that the door was bowed
and
the fit was unacceptable. It appears that dimpling the frame resulted in
a
bow, causing the problem.
The solution on mine was progressively fluting the frame along the outer
edge which straightened everything to the point where the fit is now
acceptable. I'd suggest starting with small flutes, cleco everything
back to
together, check the fit, and repeat as necessary. On mine, it required
rather aggressive flutes to get the fit where I wanted but yours may be
different.
Hope this saves someone some head-scratching.
Tom Gesele #40473 (N629RV Reserved) - Fuselage
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdalton77" <jdalton77(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tricks for inserting long hinge rods |
DO you mean the wire hole that for wiring the pin to the elevator or is
there another one?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick" <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 1:23 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tricks for inserting long hinge rods
>
> Slightly point and round the end of the rod prior to inserting. It should
> go right in, don't forget to drill the safety wire hole.
>
> Rick S.
> 40185
> Finish/Fuse
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Baggage door fit |
I just finished the baggage door install a week or so ago, and when
done, I had a misalignment with the top rear corner projecting outboard
about 3/8-1/2 " and the bottom rear corner tucked inside as far as the
frame would allow. I'm somewhat embarrassed to admit, but my solution
was to apply some torque in the opposite direction by grabbing the
corners by hand and 'encouraging' them back to where they needed to be.
Fortunately this turned out to work pretty well and didn't require all
that much effort. After getting the rear corners flush there was some
irregularity along the top of the baggage door, but I found that a
careful application of the hand seamer seemed to do the trick, and now
it fits like it was 'handmade' !
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
McGANN, Ron wrote:
> I built my baggage door a few months ago and was very happy with the
> way it came out. I got around to do the final installation this
> weekend and quite honestly it looked very second rate. I don't
> remember too much previous discussion on the list other than the lower
> back corner was 'pushed in' somewhat and this can be fixed with a
> shim. I also had the same problem as Tom experienced, where the door
> was flush at each end, but bowed out by more than 1/8" in the top
> middle. I thought that the frame rib was shaped to the curve of the
> fuse skin, so did not flute to straighten. I spent about an hour last
> night using finger pressure to almost eliminate the bow by massaging
> the door skin flush with the fuse.
>
> The baggage door seems to be one area in particular where some shared
> experiences would be useful. How many have actually come out 'spot
> on' without some remedial action??
>
> cheers,
> Ron
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom Gesele
> Sent: Friday, 2 June 2006 8:32 AM
> To: Rv10-List
> Subject: RV10-List: Baggage door fit
>
>
> I seem to recall that others had a problem with the fit of their baggage
> door so figured I'd pass this along.
>
> On the initial fit to the fuselage, discovered that the door was bowed
> and
> the fit was unacceptable. It appears that dimpling the frame resulted
> in a
> bow, causing the problem.
>
> The solution on mine was progressively fluting the frame along the outer
> edge which straightened everything to the point where the fit is now
> acceptable. I'd suggest starting with small flutes, cleco everything
> back to
> together, check the fit, and repeat as necessary. On mine, it required
> rather aggressive flutes to get the fit where I wanted but yours may be
> different.
>
> Hope this saves someone some head-scratching.
>
> Tom Gesele #40473 (N629RV Reserved) - Fuselage
>
>
> browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
>
>
> Wiki!
>
> support!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Edgerton" <weeav8ter(at)grandecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Today's X/C To Black Hills |
I also ran Gami's injectors in my Baron and they worked great. It took
my fuel flow down from around 32 gph to 26 gph, I had IO550's, but I did
lose some speed in doing this.
I've ordered the Advanced Flight System 3400 from Stein and on Advanced
Flight Systems web site there is an interesting article on flowing the
nozzles. If you're interested, go to this web address
http://www.mstewart.net/super8 and click on the bottom left where it
says Flowing the nozzles. I think you'll find the write up interesting,
if you're considering running lean of peak. I'm sure you all know that
when running LOP you have to be very careful and really monitor what's
going on with the temperatures.
Wayne Edgerton #40336
Finishing up the canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tricks for inserting long hinge rods |
Oh sorry,
I mean the hole that is used to safety wire the pin in after slide it in.
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Hukill" <cjhukill(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | dual zone front heat |
Evan
I'm the Chris that started this thread, and I'm now thinking along the
lines of plumbing rear seat heat, but with a valve to direct the rear
air to the defog when needed, as our 10 will be used as a two person
freight hauler about 95% of the time, and up in places like Alaska. The
extra hot air coming out on top would also supplement the front seaters
when needed. I like the idea about a valve that would modulate the
lower front seat heat between the left and right side, and would like to
hear more on your ideas, and I would be interested in a kit for such.
Thanks
Chris Hukill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Today's X/C To Black Hills |
Wayne, thanks for the link, It's great information.
There is an excellent white paper available for free (40 pg. pdf) on
Electronics International web site Titled;
/Leaning and diagnosing Engine Problems/.
http://www.buy-ei.com/The_Pilots_Manual_by_EI.htm
It's the best paper I've seen so far, explaining in detail what occurs
within an engine on each of the 4 strokes, and what the causes are of
bad things which can happen to an engine. It deals specifically w/
detonation (a risk in LOP operations). I highly recommend it for
reading, even if you're not planning on LOP operation. I learned a bunch
the 1st time through, and have a printed copy that I keep, in my
'continuing education' reference stack.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
Wayne Edgerton wrote:
> I also ran Gami's injectors in my Baron and they worked great. It took
> my fuel flow down from around 32 gph to 26 gph, I had IO550's, but I
> did lose some speed in doing this.
>
> I've ordered the Advanced Flight System 3400 from Stein and
> on Advanced Flight Systems web site there is an interesting article
> on flowing the nozzles. If you're interested, go to this web address
> http://www.mstewart.net/super8 and click on the bottom left where it
> says *Flowing the nozzles*. I think you'll find the write up
> interesting, if you're considering running lean of peak. I'm sure you
> all know that when running LOP you have to be very careful and really
> monitor what's going on with the temperatures.
>
> Wayne Edgerton #40336
> Finishing up the canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sub Panel Modification for Radios |
| From: | "Bobby J. Hughes" <bhughes(at)qnsi.net> |
A few months back someone posted a photo or link that show a fabricated
sub panel that was located between the instrument panel and the tunnel
cover. I believe it provided a place to relocate a couple of radios. I
can't seem to located the post. Does anyone remember the date or poster?
Thanks,
Bobby
40116
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Chris Hukill |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sub Panel Modification for Radios |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sub Panel Modification for Radios |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
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--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: QB fuselage stand |
Try these wheels for your fuse cart. Get them at wood working stores, such
as Rockler.
John J
(328 - Tailcone)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Emailing: IMGP0923 |
this may be what someone is looking for; I believe it is Randy's RV.
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
IMGP0923
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Kermanj" <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> |
Hello everyone. I would like to exchange information (off the list)
with someone who has intalled GRT and a Trutrk IIVSGV.
You can reach me at 772-460-3907.
Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Mounting fuse blocks |
If you happen to be using the Aeroelectric approach of using fuse blocks instead
of (or along with) breakers, one way of mounting the fuse holders so they are
out of the way but accessible when needed is to put them on a hinged panel
between the panel and subpanel. Just got mine cut and installed. These pics
show the essential buss block (20 fuse positions), main block (10 position) and
battery block (6 position), separated by the diode mounted to a heat sink from
B&C specialties:
Seen from above:
http://132.239.155.44/rv10/2006-06-05_fuseblockmount.jpg
and below, where a Dzus cowl fastener keeps the plate in place
http://132.239.155.44/rv10/2006-06-05_fuseblockmount_b.jpg
One half twist of the cowl fastener the the plate drops down vertically for access
to the fuses.
-Dan Masys
#40448
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Sub Panel Modification for Radios |
---- "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" wrote:
> As long as we are on the subject of TT what kind of timeframes are you guys
seeing for stuff out of them? I ordered my pitch servo and bracket about 6 weeks
ago. I know it took them a couple months to get the new brackets out for
the roll servo. Seems like their delivery times are really starting to stretch
out there.
-----
I ordered the TT Digiflight II and servos via Van's website back in January.
Nothing had been delivered as of the middle of April, so I pinged Vans about delivery
date and they said 'within the next week.' And the items did arrive about
ten days later. Had the distinct impression that if I had not brought the
delayed shipment to their attention I would probably still be waiting.
-Dan Masys
#40448
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Mounting fuse blocks |
| From: | "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dunne" <acs(at)acspropeller.com.au> |
| Subject: | Baggage door fit |
Ron, from what I recall the gist was it seems normal to have some sort of
gap at the top that is essentially taken up with your weather strip
installation and the top left corner would have to sit reasonably proud to
enable the installation of your hinge pin, but apart from that I would
suggest a lot depends on how you think it should sit aesthetically.
I suspect the more experienced builders will "massage" various items that
they don't feel come up to scratch as far as appearance is concerned.
Now you've made me feel bad because I thought mine was okay!!
John 40315 (re-thinking the finish quality on the baggage door.Damn!!)
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Monday, 5 June 2006 8:59 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Baggage door fit
I built my baggage door a few months ago and was very happy with the way it
came out. I got around to do the final installation this weekend and quite
honestly it looked very second rate. I don't remember too much previous
discussion on the list other than the lower back corner was 'pushed in'
somewhat and this can be fixed with a shim. I also had the same problem as
Tom experienced, where the door was flush at each end, but bowed out by more
than 1/8" in the top middle. I thought that the frame rib was shaped to the
curve of the fuse skin, so did not flute to straighten. I spent about an
hour last night using finger pressure to almost eliminate the bow by
massaging the door skin flush with the fuse.
The baggage door seems to be one area in particular where some shared
experiences would be useful. How many have actually come out 'spot on'
without some remedial action??
cheers,
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom Gesele
Sent: Friday, 2 June 2006 8:32 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Baggage door fit
I seem to recall that others had a problem with the fit of their baggage
door so figured I'd pass this along.
On the initial fit to the fuselage, discovered that the door was bowed and
the fit was unacceptable. It appears that dimpling the frame resulted in a
bow, causing the problem.
The solution on mine was progressively fluting the frame along the outer
edge which straightened everything to the point where the fit is now
acceptable. I'd suggest starting with small flutes, cleco everything back to
together, check the fit, and repeat as necessary. On mine, it required
rather aggressive flutes to get the fit where I wanted but yours may be
different.
Hope this saves someone some head-scratching.
Tom Gesele #40473 (N629RV Reserved) - Fuselage
browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
/Navigator?RV10-List
Wiki!
support!
bution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | how long til you know your fuel tanks are good? |
| From: | "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> |
Hey all -
Here's a dumb question... after finishing up the fuel tanks (and most
of the rest of everything on the wings) I moved on to the fuselage. It
was under the pretext of waiting for proseal to dry. I think the real
deal is that I was putting off testing the tanks because I was
nervous... Anyway, I put the balloon on there, filled it with air, and
guess what? The balloon is still inflated in the morning!! Yay.
Now the question -
How long do I wait til I call it good and test the other one?
cj
#40410
testing tanks/fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <toaster73(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | New Andair Fuel valve |
Saw in my new Kitplanes that Andair will be offering a new remote fuel
selector. The selector looks like all the others but the actual valve
can be put anywhere since its fly by wire (solenoid of some sort I
presume). So fuel lines in the cabin may be avoided. Cool.
-CHris
#40072 fuselage slobuild
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: how long til you know your fuel tanks are good? |
More important than the balloon staying up is the soapy water
test..(balloons will leak on their own) ...put diluted dish soap on every
rivet and every seam while it is under pressure...if it is leaking you will
see. I use two balloons, one inside the other to get a higher pressure.
Cheers..
Evan Johnson
www.evansaviationproducts.com
(530)247-0375
(530)351-1776 cell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 5:27 PM
Subject: RV10-List: how long til you know your fuel tanks are good?
>
>
> Hey all -
>
> Here's a dumb question... after finishing up the fuel tanks (and most
> of the rest of everything on the wings) I moved on to the fuselage. It
> was under the pretext of waiting for proseal to dry. I think the real
> deal is that I was putting off testing the tanks because I was
> nervous... Anyway, I put the balloon on there, filled it with air, and
> guess what? The balloon is still inflated in the morning!! Yay.
> Now the question -
>
> How long do I wait til I call it good and test the other one?
>
> cj
> #40410
> testing tanks/fuse
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Mounting fuse blocks |
It's the standard heatsink/diode combination that comes from B&C. On my RV-7 I
just mounted the diode to some 0.063 plate and it got so hot it melted in the
insulation on the downstream wire! (Also showed increasing internal resistance
with heat, so the voltage would drop on the e-Bus). Live and learn.
-Dan Masys
---- "McGANN wrote:
> Dan
>
> Precisely what I was about to do (including fuse block selection) - thanks for
the pics. But man, that is one BIG heatsink :-)
>
> Ron
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mounting fuse blocks |
| From: | "KiloPapa" <kilopapa(at)antelecom.net> |
Looks nice. Where did you get the fuse blocks?
Thanks,
Kevin
40494
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=38870#38870
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Reynolds <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mounting fuse blocks |
Have you checked access with the brakes installed?
Richard Reynolds
Norfolk, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Wellenzohn" <michael(at)wellenzohn.net> |
| Subject: | 3/32 match drilling HS Spar & Spar caps |
Hello, I just finished the rudder and thanks to all contributers to this
list because my trailing edge came out real nice.
I added a picture series of the rudder construction on my site
www.wellenzohn.net
Here are two questions:
1) How can I remove ProSeal spots from the skin (an easy way pls)
2) The HS construction requires 3/32 match drilling (HS Spar & Spar caps)
these drills didn't come with the Tool Kit I bought and I can't find them
on the tools webstores. Since I reside in Switzerland I wonder if match
drilling with a #40 would also do it. Any suggestions?
Michael Wellenzohn
#40511 (HS)
Zrich,Switzerland
michael(at)wellenzohn.net
www.wellenzohn.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Mounting fuse blocks |
| From: | "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com> |
I did the same thing but installed mine on the pilot side
because I had my heater controls on the right side and they go through
the lower switch panel and then under the sub-panel. You may have to
think about where you are planning to install all you push/pull cables
for stuff like Alternate Air, Parking Brake and Front and Rear Heat.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250
N519RV (28 hours on it now)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 7:08 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Mounting fuse blocks
Dan
Precisely what I was about to do (including fuse block selection) -
thanks for the pics. But man, that is one BIG heatsink :-)
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Masys
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2006 9:28 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Mounting fuse blocks
If you happen to be using the Aeroelectric approach of using fuse blocks
instead of (or along with) breakers, one way of mounting the fuse
holders so they are out of the way but accessible when needed is to put
them on a hinged panel between the panel and subpanel. Just got mine
cut and installed. These pics show the essential buss block (20 fuse
positions), main block (10 position) and battery block (6 position),
separated by the diode mounted to a heat sink from B&C specialties:
Seen from above:
http://132.239.155.44/rv10/2006-06-05_fuseblockmount.jpg
and below, where a Dzus cowl fastener keeps the plate in place
http://132.239.155.44/rv10/2006-06-05_fuseblockmount_b.jpg
One half twist of the cowl fastener the the plate drops down vertically
for access to the fuses.
-Dan Masys
#40448
=========================
===========
=========================
===========
=========================
===========
=========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: HS done! Elevators next |
| From: | "Wellenzohn" <michael(at)wellenzohn.net> |
Good job, any heads up for me regarding the HS, because I just started it now.
Best Regards
Michael
www.wellenzohn.net
--------
RV-10 builder
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=38930#38930
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 3/32 match drilling HS Spar & Spar caps |
I have found that you have to let proseal just wear off....when it's still uncured
you can use MEK but it is harsh on the skin.
You should be fine using the #40 drill bit or it may be easier to find a 2.35 mm
bit in Europe. Either should work fine. The difference in size between a #40
and a 3/32 would be measurable if you were doing precise drilling on a lathe,
mill or drill press but using a hand drill in soft aluminum, the error (wobble)
factor is greater than the size difference.
Rick S.
40185
Fuse/Finish
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Mounting fuse blocks |
I'm using the one with the heatsink, I have not powered it up but are you saying
the voltage drop has been resolved by using the heatsink or is is specific to
the unprotected diode?
Rick S.
40185
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mounting fuse blocks |
Cc: Richard Reynolds
Yes, it is fine with respect to the brakes. Lots more room in the -10 than in
the two place forward fuselage. Originally got the idea from Andy Karmy whose
installation in his -9A is shown here:
http://www.karmy.com/rv9a/pictures/fuselage/electrical/img_0022.htm
-Dan Masys
---- Richard Reynolds wrote:
>
> Have you checked access with the brakes installed?
>
> Richard Reynolds
> Norfolk, VA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mounting fuse blocks |
Cc: KiloPapa
B & C specialty products has all of the stuff one needs to wire up a plane by the
Aeroelectric ('lectric Bob) approach:
Fuse blocks are at:
http://www.bandcspecialty.com/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?7X358218
TerminalTown also has them at:
http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page204.html
Hope this helps,
-Dan Masys
---- KiloPapa wrote:
>
> Looks nice. Where did you get the fuse blocks?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kevin
> 40494
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=38870#38870
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Mounting fuse blocks |
In my -7A the heat-sinked diode has a constant voltage drop (about 0.8 volts) between
main buss and e-buss. The old diode, mounted to the plate with the fuseblocks
but not separately heat-sinked, would start with a 0.8 volt drop, but
as load was added to the e-bus (in particular the TruTrak autopilot, whose load
varies with the amount of turbulence due to stepping motor activity and can
be up to 7.5a) the voltage drop would go as high as 2.5 volts as it heated up,
causing low voltage alarms from the Grand Rapids EIS, which was powered from
the e-Bus. Would also occasionally cause the transponder to hiccup. Not a good
scene.
-Dan
---- Rick wrote:
> I'm using the one with the heatsink, I have not powered it up but are you saying
the voltage drop has been resolved by using the heatsink or is is specific
to the unprotected diode?
>
> Rick S.
> 40185
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net> |
Cc: linn Walters
---- linn Walters wrote:
> Jesse Saint wrote:
>
The only problem in-flight would be getting your legs
> >out of the way so you could flip it down, but in most cases where you are
> >blowing a fuse, putting another one in is probably not going to fix the
> >problem. The blown fuse is just evidence that there is a problem that needs
to be fixed.
> >
> And while you're preoccupied with the fuses, you aren't flying the
> plane, checking for traffec etc.!!! Best to wait 'till you're back on
> solid ground. IMHO, of course :-)
> Linn
This is very much the spirit of the Aeroelectric approach: make critical systems
redundant so that if one fails (e.g., a fuse blows) you don't have to try to
fix it while flying. Just note it and switch to the alternative approach to
getting the same job done.
The only fuse I have blown in the -7A was the pitot heat, which was sized for the
continuous current load but not for the current spike that accompanies the
startup of the pitot (approximately 1.6 x the steady state amperage). Switched
from a 15A to 20A fuse and lived happily ever after :-).
-Dan Masys
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Transponder Antenna Placement |
I'm thinking that a good place for the x-ponder ant. is just behind the
firewall, under the forward part of the tunnel just below the heat duct "T".
What I don't know is what the cowl is like in this area and how far forward
I can place the blade antenna without interference. I read Tim's site and
he indicated his is near the fuel pump which would be a little farther aft.
That sounds like a more crowded area but probably easier to get to if the
need arose. Also, how bad, if at all, would interference with the signal be
from the nose gear? I'm about to rivet the forward bottom skin and want to
double the area and place the nutplates while it's easy. Any suggestions?
John Hasbrouck
#40264
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Kermanj" <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder Antenna Placement |
I placed mine a little ahead of the fuel pump so I could access it
easily but as far aft as I could. There is some hot gas coming from
the exhaust and I think that might effect the longevity of the
antenna. My plane is not painted and I see scorched marks under the
belly.
I have had done this on my RV6 and 10. Once in a while I am told
"radar contact lost". but it comes back shortly. I am not sure if
this is the traffic controllers problem or the gear leg shadow.
On 6/6/06, John Hasbrouck wrote:
>
> I'm thinking that a good place for the x-ponder ant. is just behind the
> firewall, under the forward part of the tunnel just below the heat duct "T".
> What I don't know is what the cowl is like in this area and how far forward
> I can place the blade antenna without interference. I read Tim's site and
> he indicated his is near the fuel pump which would be a little farther aft.
> That sounds like a more crowded area but probably easier to get to if the
> need arose. Also, how bad, if at all, would interference with the signal be
> from the nose gear? I'm about to rivet the forward bottom skin and want to
> double the area and place the nutplates while it's easy. Any suggestions?
>
> John Hasbrouck
> #40264
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder Antenna Placement |
Hey John, I located mine under the right seat where the brake and fuel line
run to the wing root area. It has easy access to place a doubler and to get
to the connector if need be. I have flown 85 hours, mostly with codes from
ATC for IFR or flight following, and have not had any complaints.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Hukill" <cjhukill(at)cox.net> |
After much thought, and taking into consideration what comments I've
received from fellow listers, I have decided on my cabin heat solution.
I have talked to Don ( RV8 builder) at Aviacomp (503) 543-3986, whom
manufactures all the heat/ vent ducting parts for Vans, as well as
Cirrus, etc, etc., and he is going to modify the T duct (Van's p/n
VA-175 Heat Duct Tee) which is just aft of the firewall, to include a
selector valve that will allow me to direct the forward heat to go left,
right or mix both. This will be a direct replacement for the non
selector T valve, and will mate to the existing Vans VENT DL-102.4
flanges. This will allow me to control the left/right heat volume in the
forward footwell area. In addition, Don will provide me with another
selector valve, which I will install in the rear heat supply line, that
will allow me to mix (divert) the aft heat to a duct for defog function
This is a solution that allows me the most flexibility, with minimum
weight and complexity (two additional control cables). Don will provide
similar components for anyone else interested in a similar system, just
give him a call.
Chris Hukill
Workin the tunnel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Andair Parts / Neal George Moved |
FWIW,
Neal is great to deal with, I picked up my valve from him.
Rick S.
40185
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Hukill" <cjhukill(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | transponder antenna |
I mounted my transponder antenna in the tailcone, just abeam the
elevator bellcrank. This allows for a very short coax feed, as I will
use a remote transponder, as the panel space in a 10 is very limited for
an IFR machine. This location is very accessible, and far enough away
from the comm antennas, which are mounted in the area just forward of
the rear seats, under the flap tubes covers, which are also accessible.
As I work in the tunnel, I would like to comment that there is lot of
stuff in there already, and trying to jam in anything else, like an
antenna would be masochistic. Don't forget that you'll be standing on
your head working in that tunnel at every annual to clean and inspect
that fuel filter.
Chris Hukill
developing tunnel vision
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
Did he provide any price information?
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
HYPERLINK "mailto:jesse(at)itecusa.org"jesse(at)itecusa.org
HYPERLINK "http://www.itecusa.org"www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Hukill
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 11:02 PM
Subject: RV10-List: rear seat heat
After much thought, and taking into consideration what comments I've
received from fellow listers, I have decided on my cabin heat solution. I
have talked to Don ( RV8 builder) at Aviacomp (503) 543-3986, whom
manufactures all the heat/ vent ducting parts for Vans, as well as Cirrus,
etc, etc., and he is going to modify the T duct (Van's p/n VA-175 Heat Duct
Tee) which is just aft of the firewall, to include a selector valve that
will allow me to direct the forward heat to go left, right or mix both. This
will be a direct replacement for the non selector T valve, and will mate to
the existing Vans VENT DL-102.4 flanges. This will allow me to control the
left/right heat volume in the forward footwell area. In addition, Don will
provide me with another selector valve, which I will install in the rear
heat supply line, that will allow me to mix (divert) the aft heat to a duct
for defog function This is a solution that allows me the most flexibility,
with minimum weight and complexity (two additional control cables). Don will
provide similar components for anyone else interested in a similar system,
just give him a call.
Chris Hukill
Workin the tunnel
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vern W. Smith" <Vern(at)teclabsinc.com> |
Hi,
Would this be a good way to get heat up to a defroster? I know there has
been some discussion on using computer fans to blow air on the
windscreen. I have to admit I haven't really looked that far ahead in
the plans to know what provisions are incorporated.
Vern Smith (wing flaps)
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Hukill
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:02 PM
Subject: RV10-List: rear seat heat
After much thought, and taking into consideration what comments I've
received from fellow listers, I have decided on my cabin heat solution.
I have talked to Don ( RV8 builder) at Aviacomp (503) 543-3986, whom
manufactures all the heat/ vent ducting parts for Vans, as well as
Cirrus, etc, etc., and he is going to modify the T duct (Van's p/n
VA-175 Heat Duct Tee) which is just aft of the firewall, to include a
selector valve that will allow me to direct the forward heat to go left,
right or mix both. This will be a direct replacement for the non
selector T valve, and will mate to the existing Vans VENT DL-102.4
flanges. This will allow me to control the left/right heat volume in the
forward footwell area. In addition, Don will provide me with another
selector valve, which I will install in the rear heat supply line, that
will allow me to mix (divert) the aft heat to a duct for defog function
This is a solution that allows me the most flexibility, with minimum
weight and complexity (two additional control cables). Don will provide
similar components for anyone else interested in a similar system, just
give him a call.
Chris Hukill
Workin the tunnel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LIKE2LOOP(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: HS done! Elevators next |
In a message dated 6/6/2006 9:33:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,
michael(at)wellenzohn.net writes:
Good job, any heads up for me regarding the HS, because I just started it now
When you countersink the spars to allow for the skin dimples, error on
the side of too deep (ever so slightly, vs too shallow), so the skin seats
completely into the depression and is not held apart when rivetting.
On the nose ribs, bend the very front corner inward to avoid excess
pressure on the skin when you finally seat the inspars and ribs into the skin.
On the wood jigs to hold the assembly, cover all the surfaces that will
contact metal with duct tape as a cusion, and if you error on cutting the wood,
make them too big. They are not needed for detail fitting, the match drilling
does that, just to hold the thing up while you work.
Label all the parts for "top" or "Bottom" and left and right. after you
match drill, then disaasemble, there are a lot of parts. Number all the ribs in
an order that makes sense to make reassembly a no brainer. It seems obvious,
but often you will have the HS upside down and top is now down...... it only
matters for a few holes that you will skip rivetting and dimpling on the top
side, and for the attach brackets. BUY the CNC attach barckets (and the weldment
nuts for the elevator trim) from Silverbullet..... his brother is on this
network, ad the e-mail address may be in the archives, very nice parts and priced
fairly.
Get started, there are a lot of rivets....... fun to have a BIG part done.
Steve
Stephen G. Blank,DDS
RV-10 #40499 Building the Elevators.
Cessna 170b Flyer
Port St Lucie, FL
772-475-5556 cell
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tim's in Flying Magazine! |
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
Tim O, it looks like you're in the latest Flying Magazine, I think on
Page 77, in an article about Sun N Fun. (Or at least your airplane is!)
TDT
40025
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
Anyone had any problems with the fit of the bearings to the bellcranks
in the fuse...eg bellcrank needs to be re bent for bearing to fit.
f-1089 ..90
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Gesele <tgesele(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Cockpit Paint Question |
For those that have installed a FlightLine interior, what areas of the
cockpit are left uncovered and need to be painted?
Thanks,
Tom Gesele #40473 - Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HS done! Elevators next |
Steve,
Nice explanation. I agree with it all. Can I have permission to use this
on my web site, proper reference being given? Probably put it under helpful
hints for the HS.
John J
328 Tailcone
www.jessen-rv10.com
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LIKE2LOOP(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: HS done! Elevators next
In a message dated 6/6/2006 9:33:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,
michael(at)wellenzohn.net writes:
Good job, any heads up for me regarding the HS, because I just started it
now
When you countersink the spars to allow for the skin dimples, error on
the side of too deep (ever so slightly, vs too shallow), so the skin seats
completely into the depression and is not held apart when rivetting.
On the nose ribs, bend the very front corner inward to avoid excess
pressure on the skin when you finally seat the inspars and ribs into the
skin.
On the wood jigs to hold the assembly, cover all the surfaces that will
contact metal with duct tape as a cusion, and if you error on cutting the
wood, make them too big. They are not needed for detail fitting, the match
drilling does that, just to hold the thing up while you work.
Label all the parts for "top" or "Bottom" and left and right. after you
match drill, then disaasemble, there are a lot of parts. Number all the ribs
in an order that makes sense to make reassembly a no brainer. It seems
obvious, but often you will have the HS upside down and top is now
down...... it only matters for a few holes that you will skip rivetting and
dimpling on the top side, and for the attach brackets. BUY the CNC attach
barckets (and the weldment nuts for the elevator trim) from
Silverbullet..... his brother is on this network, ad the e-mail address may
be in the archives, very nice parts and priced fairly.
Get started, there are a lot of rivets....... fun to have a BIG part
done.
Steve
Stephen G. Blank,DDS
RV-10 #40499 Building the Elevators.
Cessna 170b Flyer
Port St Lucie, FL
772-475-5556 cell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdalton77" <jdalton77(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 3/32 match drilling HS Spar & Spar caps |
I used a #40 and it was fine.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Wellenzohn" <michael(at)wellenzohn.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:17 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 3/32 match drilling HS Spar & Spar caps
>
>
> Hello, I just finished the rudder and thanks to all contributers to this
> list because my trailing edge came out real nice.
>
> I added a picture series of the rudder construction on my site
> www.wellenzohn.net
>
> Here are two questions:
> 1) How can I remove ProSeal spots from the skin (an easy way pls)
>
> 2) The HS construction requires 3/32 match drilling (HS Spar & Spar caps)
> these drills didn't come with the Tool Kit I bought and I can't find them
> on the tools webstores. Since I reside in Switzerland I wonder if match
> drilling with a #40 would also do it. Any suggestions?
>
> Michael Wellenzohn
> #40511 (HS)
> Zrich,Switzerland
> michael(at)wellenzohn.net
> www.wellenzohn.net
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net> |
Forgive me if this is in the archives, but I have a question about the Aileron
and Flap trailing edges.
After mounting the flaps and ailerons onto the wing, the trailing edges do not
match up. I was kind of hoping they would since the wings and flaps were not
built in jigs per say. But they didn't.
To make everything line up, I need to pull the 2 flap attach bolts (wing root
bolt left on). The flap actually needs to be raised a little (wing is vertical
in the jig) to make the flap parallel to the top skin rivets. Then, the bolt
holes don't line up. Bummer!
Has anbody else seen this and if you did, what did you do about it?
Zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=39442#39442
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | finish kit orders |
| From: | "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> |
Hey all -
I'm getting ready to order the finish kit, and wondered what deletions
and/or substitutions people made. I haven't ordered my engine yet, but
I was hoping to go bpa with a james cowl (pending revelations at osh).
Any thoughts would be appreciated...
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: finish kit orders |
Chris, The obvious item is to delete the cowl. Van's gave me an $800
price reduction for that item, If you go w/ the James cowl it requires a
14" spinner, so unless Van's has one available, I don't think so) that's
another item, I don t' know what the reduction is for that as I forgot
to delete it from my order and the Finish kit arrives Mon! ( I ve got a
number of items to return, but I figure I'll wait til towards the end
and box them all up at the same time. ) If you also chose to use the
James pressure plenum, you would also not want to go with Van's baffling
kit, but that's a part of the FF forward. As is the exhaust if you do
something different there.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Joined the forward and center fuselage section last night and |
used proseal
I finally joined the slow build forward and center
fuselage sections. At the overlapped skin joint under
the center spars I applied ~ 120 grams of proseal in a
very thin layer. I was concerned with the possiblity
of water getting trapped between these layers and
damaging the Al.
I'm happy to say it went very smoothly and I had
plenty of time to complete all the rivets. (except ~ 4
where I will have to invent another bucking bar to get
to).
John C gave me the inspiration at the last NW RV-10
meeting and I'm glad I did it. I also plan on
prosealing the tail cone to fuselage joint and wing
walk angles. (as well as firewall)
I've also been priming with E2G973 and for the
fuselage I am also applying a two part epoxy top coat.
Another tip is after you connect the spar's with the
Al spacers you can also install the seat rails
temporarily to insure alignment. I'm still amazed that
everything lines up perfectly considering the
cumulative tolerances...
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net> |
I've heard that Van's is now selling PlanePower's alternators, but can't
make heads or tails of the vans online catalog. Anyone know if and then
which models Vans is selling?
Rob Wright
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | finish kit orders |
Has anyone installed the Sam James cowl for the RV-10 and flown with it? I
wonder what speeds/temperatures occur with this cowl.
Kevin D. Belue
RV-6A Flying
RV-10 #261, Canopy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Deems Davis [mailto:deemsdavis(at)cox.net]
> Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 6:06 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: finish kit orders
>
>
> Chris, The obvious item is to delete the cowl. Van's gave me an $800
> price reduction for that item, If you go w/ the James cowl it requires a
> 14" spinner, so unless Van's has one available, I don't think so) that's
> another item, I don t' know what the reduction is for that as I forgot
> to delete it from my order and the Finish kit arrives Mon! ( I ve got a
> number of items to return, but I figure I'll wait til towards the end
> and box them all up at the same time. ) If you also chose to use the
> James pressure plenum, you would also not want to go with Van's
> baffling
> kit, but that's a part of the FF forward. As is the exhaust if you do
> something different there.
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Fuse
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _-
> ======================================================
> ====
> _-
> ======================================================
> ====
> _-
> ======================================================
> ====
> _-
> ======================================================
> ====
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Kermanj" <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> |
Does anyone have a REALLY GOOD paint shop to recommend in Florida?
Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
Zack,
At first I thought the same thing, make sure the flap leading edge is up against
the rear spar, that is it's neutral position. If your bottom skins are not on
wait until they are before pressing the bushings into the flap brackets because
the skins can't slip over the hinges. The bushings made the difference for
me. I found as all the hardware was being installed everything seemed to line
up fine after it was fully installed, torqued etc.
Rick S.
40185
Fuse/Finish
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 3/32 match drilling HS Spar & Spar caps |
| From: | "Wellenzohn" <michael(at)wellenzohn.net> |
Thanks guys for your input! I'll continue drilling with a #40 once my compressor works again, need to fix it (what a waste of time). Will go flying through the swiss alps this weekend (beautiful weather here) pictures will be added soon after on http://www.wellenzohn.net
Rgs
Michael
to not archive
--------
RV-10 builder
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=39569#39569
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gommone7(at)bellsouth.net> |
> Check the one in Lantana, (KLNA)West Palm Beach airport,have a very good reputation
Hugo
> Date: 2006/06/09 Fri AM 07:59:58 EDT
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Painting
>
>
> Does anyone have a REALLY GOOD paint shop to recommend in Florida?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Hukill" <cjhukill(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | finishing kit ommisions |
I just sent Barb at Vans a list of the items to omit from my finishing
kit. I previously had her send me an inventory list of the kit, so I
knew what was there. As I want to leave my options open for a James
cowl, I omitted the cowl top, bottom, left/ right inlets, oil door and
core, and all the spinner parts (7 items). I also omitted the tires and
tubes, as I like the leakguard tubes and better tires. If anyone wants
the actual part numbers of the cowl / spinner parts to omit, I would be
happy to fax the list, and save you and Vans the trouble.
Chris Hukill
completing Andair installation
702 591-7551 cel
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | finishing kit ommisions |
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
I bet if you scan the list, Tim O will be happy to post it on his
website . . .
TDT
40025
FF
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Hukill
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 11:58 AM
Subject: RV10-List: finishing kit ommisions
I just sent Barb at Vans a list of the items to omit from my finishing
kit. I previously had her send me an inventory list of the kit, so I
knew what was there. As I want to leave my options open for a James
cowl, I omitted the cowl top, bottom, left/ right inlets, oil door and
core, and all the spinner parts (7 items). I also omitted the tires and
tubes, as I like the leakguard tubes and better tires. If anyone wants
the actual part numbers of the cowl / spinner parts to omit, I would be
happy to fax the list, and save you and Vans the trouble.
Chris Hukill
completing Andair installation
702 591-7551 cel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: finishing kit ommisions |
Hey Tim..
Have any pictures of big Avidyne screens in your panel yet?
I sure wish I was able to get an Entegra setup without going through
certified dealers. :) I absolutely love those screens.
-Sean #40303 (Still closing up wings)
On Jun 9, 2006, at 9:15 AM, Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
> I bet if you scan the list, Tim O will be happy to post it on his
> website . . .
>
>
> TDT
>
> 40025
>
> FF
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Hukill
> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 11:58 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: finishing kit ommisions
>
>
> I just sent Barb at Vans a list of the items to omit from my
> finishing kit. I previously had her send me an inventory list of
> the kit, so I knew what was there. As I want to leave my options
> open for a James cowl, I omitted the cowl top, bottom, left/ right
> inlets, oil door and core, and all the spinner parts (7 items). I
> also omitted the tires and tubes, as I like the leakguard tubes and
> better tires. If anyone wants the actual part numbers of the cowl /
> spinner parts to omit, I would be happy to fax the list, and save
> you and Vans the trouble.
>
>
> Chris Hukill
>
> completing Andair installation
>
> 702 591-7551 cel
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | finishing kit ommisions |
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
I've had a couple dummy units in for a fit check, but still need to
finish some wiring to get to the point of firing up a real set. Should
be soon, though . . .
TDT
40025
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: TDT Panel? Was: RV10-List: finishing kit ommisions
Hey Tim..
Have any pictures of big Avidyne screens in your panel yet?
I sure wish I was able to get an Entegra setup without going through
certified dealers. :) I absolutely love those screens.
-Sean #40303 (Still closing up wings)
On Jun 9, 2006, at 9:15 AM, Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
I bet if you scan the list, Tim O will be happy to post it on his
website . . .
TDT
40025
FF
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Hukill
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 11:58 AM
Subject: RV10-List: finishing kit ommisions
I just sent Barb at Vans a list of the items to omit from my finishing
kit. I previously had her send me an inventory list of the kit, so I
knew what was there. As I want to leave my options open for a James
cowl, I omitted the cowl top, bottom, left/ right inlets, oil door and
core, and all the spinner parts (7 items). I also omitted the tires and
tubes, as I like the leakguard tubes and better tires. If anyone wants
the actual part numbers of the cowl / spinner parts to omit, I would be
happy to fax the list, and save you and Vans the trouble.
Chris Hukill
completing Andair installation
702 591-7551 cel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> |
>From your description I have the same flap/aileron trailing edge aligment issue
on one wing (less than 1/4" as I recall). A couple of folks have looked at it
(including the local EAA tech advisor) and no one has pointed at anything that
might be amiss.
One of the guys on the Vans builder line said that I might have warped or
twisted the flap slightly and that could attribute to the funky edge. I voted
to not build a show plan and just keep on going as nothing is falling off.
Hope this makes sense.
Jay
Slow build everything... Fuse
Subject: Trailing Edges
From: "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net>
Forgive me if this is in the archives, but I have a question about the Aileron
and Flap trailing edges.
After mounting the flaps and ailerons onto the wing, the trailing edges do not
match up. I was kind of hoping they would since the wings and flaps were not
built in jigs per say. But they didn't.
To make everything line up, I need to pull the 2 flap attach bolts (wing root
bolt left on). The flap actually needs to be raised a little (wing is vertical
in the jig) to make the flap parallel to the top skin rivets. Then, the bolt
holes don't line up. Bummer!
Has anbody else seen this and if you did, what did you do about it?
Zack
__________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
| From: | "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net> |
Rick and Jay,
Thanks for the replies. I just found out that I indeed have a "twisted" flap.
You have to take great care when builing those long pieces. Inducing a twist
or warp is very, very easy.
My flaps are so bad (in my opinion) that I need to redo them. I will try drilling
out the trailing edge rivets and use a heat gun to break the 2216 epoxy.
If I booger it up, Vans will get more of my money!
For the rest of you building the flaps, take great care to follow the instructions
and make sure you have a flat table and weigh the flap down like the plans
call for.
Zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=39638#39638
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Carey" <markacarey(at)msn.com> |
I am having difficulting getting my spring assisted door handles to move
freely enough for the roller pins to slide into the slot on the doors. Does
anyone have any suggestions or recommendations. I recall some earlier posts
depicting alternate handles. When I flew the factory 10 the door latches
clicked in real nice.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bobby J. Hughes" <bhughes(at)qnsi.net> |
I had the same problem. I used a small file and emery cloth to open up
the slots and smooth down all of the rough edges. Bad news is I had to
disassemble the mechanism to correct the problem.
Bobby
40116
(sanding and sanding and sanding)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Carey
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 2:47 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Door Handles
I am having difficulting getting my spring assisted door handles to move
freely enough for the roller pins to slide into the slot on the doors.
Does anyone have any suggestions or recommendations. I recall some
earlier posts depicting alternate handles. When I flew the factory 10
the door latches clicked in real nice.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv10builder <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: PP alternator |
I had no idea Van's was offering the Plane Power alternator until I
called to order my FF kit and asked to drop the "standard" from the kit.
That's when they asked me if I had heard of PP and turns out that is
exactly what I wanted anyway. FWIW - the installation sheet that came
with my unit says it's p/n 99-9900 and the drawing lists AL 12-EI60/B.
Hope that helps...
Brian
40308 Canopy
www.mykitlog.com/rv10builder
Robert G. Wright wrote:
> Ive heard that Vans is now selling PlanePowers alternators, but
> cant make heads or tails of the vans online catalog. Anyone know if
> and then which models Vans is selling?
>
> Rob Wright
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | finishing kit ommisions |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean Van Winkle" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 2:43 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Trailing Edges
>
> Rick and Jay,
>
> Thanks for the replies. I just found out that I indeed have a
> "twisted" flap. You have to take great care when builing those long
> pieces. Inducing a twist or warp is very, very easy.
>
> My flaps are so bad (in my opinion) that I need to redo them. I will
> try drilling out the trailing edge rivets and use a heat gun to break the
> 2216 epoxy. If I booger it up, Vans will get more of my money!
>
> For the rest of you building the flaps, take great care to follow the
> instructions and make sure you have a flat table and weigh the flap down
> like the plans call for.
>
> Zack
>
> --------
> RV8 #80125
> RV10 # 40512
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=39638#39638
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LIKE2LOOP(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 3/32 match drilling HS Spar & Spar caps |
In a message dated 6/9/06 5:38:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jesse(at)itecusa.org writes:
You are toting around a heavy cordless drill, worrying about keeping
batteries charged,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Kermanj" <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks Hugo, I will check them out.
On 6/9/06, gommone7(at)bellsouth.net wrote:
>
>
> > Check the one in Lantana, (KLNA)West Palm Beach airport,have a very good reputation
> Hugo
> > Date: 2006/06/09 Fri AM 07:59:58 EDT
> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV10-List: Painting
> >
> >
> > Does anyone have a REALLY GOOD paint shop to recommend in Florida?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 3/32 match drilling HS Spar & Spar caps |
Geez, I wish I'd have known that my B & D 14V "Firestorm" wouldn't work
well. Just finishing the fuselage with it now. Personally I think high
speed air drills are your enemy not your friend. Much easier to drill
out the occasional bad rivet with a slow turning cordless drill! My
$.02
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 3/32 match drilling HS Spar & Spar caps |
Yikes.. Flame war over drills?
As a famous engineer once said... "Use the right tool for the right job!"
Air drills work well for drilling aluminium, cordless/hand drills work
well for drilling out rivets, cordless screw drivers work well for
deburring..
As always, your mileage may vary.
-Jim 40384
John Hasbrouck wrote:
> Geez, I wish I'd have known that my B & D 14V "Firestorm" wouldn't
> work well. Just finishing the fuselage with it now. Personally I
> think high speed air drills are your enemy not your friend. Much
> easier to drill out the occasional bad rivet with a slow turning
> cordless drill! My $.02
>
> John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com> |
| Subject: | WD1002 and F1001B alignment |
I searched the archive for this problem since I'd seen it before but
couldn't come up with a definite answer. Here's the question. When I look
at the pre-punched holes in the F1001B upper angle and compare to how they
line up with the undrilled upper flange of the WD1002, it's obvious that
I'll run off the edge of the WD1002 with the aft most holes. Pic. attached.
Know some of you contacted Vans about this but never heard the solution. I
can improve the situation a little by loading the bracket ( pulling it
outboard ) but still am not getting more than about 1/16" edge distance, not
enough I think. This is only on the left side, the right will be OK. Want
to solve this problem before going any further and it looks like a new
WD1002L may be that solution. Comments.
John Hasbrouck
#40264
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: WD1002 and F1001B alignment |
John,
I think there were a couple of different problems, 1) there were some bad 1002
brackets made and they needed to be exchanged. 2) Vans advised to clamp the leafs
of the bracket in the proper orientation prior to drilling. 3) it's just plain
very close to minimum edge distance. Your photos a bit blurry, maybe post
one that provides a little better angle as to where your seeing the problem,
the bracket may be Tango Uniform if the gap is really big compared to the right
side where you say there is not a problem. Compare the two brackets to see where
the difference might be in manufacture.
Rick S.
40185
Fuse/Finish
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WD1002 and F1001B alignment |
Rick,
I'm trying to get a good picture of this. I've outlined the rivets on
the flange of the WD1002L and R. On the left, the most aft rivet has a
distance to the edge of 1/16" and doesn't get to 1/8" until the 4th rivet
forward. On the right, the edge distance is at least 1/8" all the way. The
flanges of the weldment and the upper angle are not parallel on the left as
they are on the right. I could get better edge distance if I angled the
drill inboard when match drilling but the upper angle flange has a bend that
calls for a more outboard angle. john
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | WD1002 and F1001B alignment |
I just went through this also. I used some clamps to pull the steel flange
fingers in toward the alum channels so that the edge distance would be OK.
Albert Gardner
40-422
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
| Subject: | WD1002 and F1001B alignment |
We ran into very much the same problem on N256H and N415EC. On the latter,
we clamped the bracket to move it into position, then drilled and clecoed
every hole while check edge distance. It came out just fine.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hasbrouck
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: WD1002 and F1001B alignment
Rick,
I'm trying to get a good picture of this. I've outlined the rivets on
the flange of the WD1002L and R. On the left, the most aft rivet has a
distance to the edge of 1/16" and doesn't get to 1/8" until the 4th rivet
forward. On the right, the edge distance is at least 1/8" all the way. The
flanges of the weldment and the upper angle are not parallel on the left as
they are on the right. I could get better edge distance if I angled the
drill inboard when match drilling but the upper angle flange has a bend that
calls for a more outboard angle. john
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris W <3edcft6(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: air drills vs cordless |
Eric Panning wrote:
>Cordless drill is great for countersinking, but air
>drill key for #30,#40 holes. Nice part about the air
>drill is you can use it all day long and it is never
>runs hotter than the air coming to it. I've had 4+ hr
>sessions match drilling tail cone, wings, etc. My
>experience is electric and cordless drills would be
>hot to the touch with this sort of duty cycle.
>
>
I can't comment on the electric drill getting hot after long sessions
because long before that happened, my arm would fall off trying to hold
it up. I'm sure that isn't a concern for many, but if it is, you can do
what I plan to and use 1.25 lbs air drill.
--
Chris W
KE5GIX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: WD1002 and F1001B alignment |
I did the same ( after screwing up the 1st one)
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
Albert Gardner wrote:
>
>
>I just went through this also. I used some clamps to pull the steel flange
>fingers in toward the alum channels so that the edge distance would be OK.
>Albert Gardner
>40-422
>Yuma, AZ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Experimental IFR w/o a certified GPS or looking for a copy |
of RTCA/DO-229C
I recently read an article posted on Direct2. website
http://www.direct2avionics.com/pdfs/Using_GPS_for_IFR_flight.pd by a
Phd CFII that concludes that for EXPERIMENTAL aircraft, it was not
necessary for the aircraft to be equipped with a CERTIFIED GPS receiver
to legally file and fly IFR, PROVIDED that you, the pilot/mfg can
evaluate the GPS functionality, and find it provides all of the
necessary pilot input (as defined in the TSO) for IFR flight.
This sounded like it was worth looking into. I verified this opinion
with a competitor of Direct2. So off I go to study TSO-C146 the Standard
document for WAAS GPS, unfortunately there is nothing in the document
regarding functional requirements other than a reference to:
RTCA/DO-229B (which I learned has since been superceeded w/
RTCA/DO-229C). Another Google search reveals that this document is
available but with a cost which ranged from $108-370 per copy.
Does anyone know of a 'library' where this document could be 'rented' or
checked-out. a couple hundred bucks is a steep price for someone just
investigating an idea/thought.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gommone7(at)bellsouth.net> |
Good morning at all.
I just found a problem in the wings,I hope
I miss somethings.
for the builders just finish the QB wings,how is suppose to rivet the flap gap
fairing against the back spar ,when the bottom skin is allready in place,in the
instruction say cleco and rivet,thats it.please tell me I miss some instruction.
Thanks for the help,Hugo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net> |
Hugo,
I riveted mine on a couple of weeks ago. It took some effort and scrapes on
the arms, but I used the long and then elevator bucking bar to poke up
inside there to buck the rivets. Be careful, as no matter how hard I tried
I always vibrated the bar off the rivet, so I hit the rivet a couple of
times, reset the bucking bar on the tail, and shot again, as necessary,
until the rivet was set. I'm sure it would have been easier if I had two
people though. It was definitely a stretch.
For Slow-Wing builders, the inboard bottom skin comes riveted on except for
the row of tie-in rivets for the outboard bottom skin.
Rob Wright
#392 QB Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gommone7(at)bellsouth.net
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 6:17 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Hugo rv10-40456
Good morning at all.
I just found a problem in the wings,I
hope I miss somethings.
for the builders just finish the QB wings,how is suppose to rivet the flap
gap fairing against the back spar ,when the bottom skin is allready in
place,in the instruction say cleco and rivet,thats it.please tell me I miss
some instruction.
Thanks for the help,Hugo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WD1002 and F1001B alignment |
Thanks for all the replies and especially to Rick for his telephone
consultation! Another example of how helpfull this list is. BTW: I primed
everything using a wallpaper paste and goat cheese blend. Seems to adhere
well but smells a little when it gets hot. I'm told that will go away over
time. Thanks again........john
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sean Blair" <seanblair(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Double flush or not |
Double flush or not? When I look at my plans for Section 28-12, the rivet
callout, there appears to be a discrepancy. I see in the websites of
other's that they are installing double flush rivets on the last seven
outboard rivets attaching the forward center section bulkhead assembly and
skins. My plans do not reference this and it may cause a clearance issue
later with the landing gear and the shop heads of those rivets. What's even
stranger is the plans seem to both be the same revision "0" and I don't see
a bulletin from Van's. I'm not totally sure this is a problem yet. Yes, I
installed these rivets already.
Referencing Tim O's site:
http://www.myrv10.com/Plans/RV10_Plans_sec28-pg13.html
(mine doesn't have the double flush callout)
Is everyone using double flush here?
Thanks,
Sean Blair
#40225
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Double flush or not |
I did a double flush here, the clearance was an issue.
Bob K
Building engine
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Blair
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 2:53 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Double flush or not
Double flush or not? When I look at my plans for Section 28-12, the rivet
callout, there appears to be a discrepancy. I see in the websites of
other's that they are installing double flush rivets on the last seven
outboard rivets attaching the forward center section bulkhead assembly and
skins. My plans do not reference this and it may cause a clearance issue
later with the landing gear and the shop heads of those rivets. What's even
stranger is the plans seem to both be the same revision "0" and I don't see
a bulletin from Van's. I'm not totally sure this is a problem yet. Yes, I
installed these rivets already.
Referencing Tim O's site:
http://www.myrv10.com/Plans/RV10_Plans_sec28-pg13.html
(mine doesn't have the double flush callout)
Is everyone using double flush here?
Thanks,
Sean Blair
#40225
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Double flush or not |
Yep, double flush, or the Landing Gear mount won't fit. (Ask me how I know)
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
Sean Blair wrote:
> Double flush or not? When I look at my plans for Section 28-12, the
> rivet callout, there appears to be a discrepancy. I see in the
> websites of others that they are installing double flush rivets on
> the last seven outboard rivets attaching the forward center section
> bulkhead assembly and skins. My plans do not reference this and it may
> cause a clearance issue later with the landing gear and the shop heads
> of those rivets. Whats even stranger is the plans seem to both be the
> same revision 0 and I dont see a bulletin from Vans. Im not
> totally sure this is a problem yet. Yes, I installed these rivets already.
>
> Referencing Tim Os site:
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/Plans/RV10_Plans_sec28-pg13.html
>
> (mine doesnt have the double flush callout)
>
> Is everyone using double flush here?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sean Blair
>
> #40225
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FW: Hole in wing |
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
Here's a new one.
It's a long story, but we were transporting our RV-10 inside a 26'
Penske rental truck. (it will fit, if you can believe it!)
Unfortunately, the crap that passes for roads in parts of this country
bounced things around enough that one of our wings, held vertically in a
cradle, shifted far enough that it contacted the fuselage step. The
result was a small hole, as illustrated in the attached photos. More
unfortunately, this is the fuel tank.
So what to do? One current thought is to patch as follows:
1. Keeping wing vertical, put some fuel into the tank and alllow it to
flow out the hole, flushing any aluminum dust out of inside of the tank.
2. Create a small patch just large enough to cover the hole.
3. Using "flush" blind rivets and some ProSeal, attach the patch over
the hole.
The hole isn't really that big, so I'm not too concerned,
structure-wise, as long as we can get a patch that is secure and not
likely to leak.
Comments? Ideas?
Tim Dawson-Townsend
40025
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | FW: Hole in wing |
Darn that is a bad hole, I think that you should scrap both wings, send them
here and then we will destroy them for you so that you don't see the pain.
You will be able to build the new wings much faster and when we build our
next 10 we shall be wings up so to speak.
Rick is much more experienced at patching things so he should be able to
give experienced advice.
Bob K
Still waiting to drill out my first rivet.
Building engine.
N104BK
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 5:51 PM
Subject: RV10-List: FW: Hole in wing
Here's a new one.
It's a long story, but we were transporting our RV-10 inside a 26' Penske
rental truck. (it will fit, if you can believe it!)
Unfortunately, the crap that passes for roads in parts of this country
bounced things around enough that one of our wings, held vertically in a
cradle, shifted far enough that it contacted the fuselage step. The result
was a small hole, as illustrated in the attached photos. More
unfortunately, this is the fuel tank.
So what to do? One current thought is to patch as follows:
1. Keeping wing vertical, put some fuel into the tank and alllow it to flow
out the hole, flushing any aluminum dust out of inside of the tank.
2. Create a small patch just large enough to cover the hole.
3. Using "flush" blind rivets and some ProSeal, attach the patch over the
hole.
The hole isn't really that big, so I'm not too concerned, structure-wise, as
long as we can get a patch that is secure and not likely to leak.
Comments? Ideas?
Tim Dawson-Townsend
40025
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Hole in wing |
FW: Hole in wingK.M.A. Bob, ;)
Yeah other peoples mistakes. Patches are covered in AC 43.13-1B
paragraph 4-58 Fig 4-16. I'm not going to elaborate, depending on the
location to the leading edge, it may require stiffeners. Refer to the
bible..I mean 43.13 to be sure your doing it right. But with a large
enough circle patch and proseal, two rivet lines may be needed, it
should be OK.
Rick S.
40185
Fuse/Finish
----- Original Message -----
From: bob.kaufmann
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:08 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FW: Hole in wing
Darn that is a bad hole, I think that you should scrap both wings,
send them here and then we will destroy them for you so that you don't
see the pain. You will be able to build the new wings much faster and
when we build our next 10 we shall be wings up so to speak.
Rick is much more experienced at patching things so he should be able
to give experienced advice.
Bob K
Still waiting to drill out my first rivet.
Building engine.
N104BK
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 5:51 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: FW: Hole in wing
Here's a new one.
It's a long story, but we were transporting our RV-10 inside a 26'
Penske rental truck. (it will fit, if you can believe it!)
Unfortunately, the crap that passes for roads in parts of this country
bounced things around enough that one of our wings, held vertically in a
cradle, shifted far enough that it contacted the fuselage step. The
result was a small hole, as illustrated in the attached photos. More
unfortunately, this is the fuel tank.
So what to do? One current thought is to patch as follows:
1. Keeping wing vertical, put some fuel into the tank and alllow it to
flow out the hole, flushing any aluminum dust out of inside of the tank.
2. Create a small patch just large enough to cover the hole.
3. Using "flush" blind rivets and some ProSeal, attach the patch over
the hole.
The hole isn't really that big, so I'm not too concerned,
structure-wise, as long as we can get a patch that is secure and not
likely to leak.
Comments? Ideas?
Tim Dawson-Townsend
40025
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Double flush or not |
Yup discrepancy...double flush it...
Rick S.
40185
Fuse/Finish
----- Original Message -----
From: Sean Blair
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 3:52 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Double flush or not
Double flush or not? When I look at my plans for Section 28-12, the
rivet callout, there appears to be a discrepancy. I see in the websites
of other's that they are installing double flush rivets on the last
seven outboard rivets attaching the forward center section bulkhead
assembly and skins. My plans do not reference this and it may cause a
clearance issue later with the landing gear and the shop heads of those
rivets. What's even stranger is the plans seem to both be the same
revision "0" and I don't see a bulletin from Van's. I'm not totally
sure this is a problem yet. Yes, I installed these rivets already.
Referencing Tim O's site:
http://www.myrv10.com/Plans/RV10_Plans_sec28-pg13.html
(mine doesn't have the double flush callout)
Is everyone using double flush here?
Thanks,
Sean Blair
#40225
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RAS" <deruiteraircraftservices(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Hole in wing |
FW: Hole in winghi,
repair as per Van's suggestions. Cut a hole big enough in the rear
baffle to pass your hand through with a fly cutter. Clean out the tank,
deburr the inside of the damage properly, make a patch and dimple both
skin and patch, plenty of proseal and rivet the patch on. Then cut a
circular patch to cover the hole in the rear baffle.
Using access through the rear baffle is the Van's recommended procedure
to rectify any leaks when testing the tanks for leaks after
construction. This is in the manual.
However, I would the parts from Van's and build a new tank altogether as
the profile of the tank might be a bit off because of the bouncing, it
doesn't look as if it cut straight through on the first go. use the list
on the Van's webstore.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Dawson-Townsend
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 2:51 AM
Subject: RV10-List: FW: Hole in wing
Here's a new one.
It's a long story, but we were transporting our RV-10 inside a 26'
Penske rental truck. (it will fit, if you can believe it!)
Unfortunately, the crap that passes for roads in parts of this country
bounced things around enough that one of our wings, held vertically in a
cradle, shifted far enough that it contacted the fuselage step. The
result was a small hole, as illustrated in the attached photos. More
unfortunately, this is the fuel tank.
So what to do? One current thought is to patch as follows:
1. Keeping wing vertical, put some fuel into the tank and alllow it to
flow out the hole, flushing any aluminum dust out of inside of the tank.
2. Create a small patch just large enough to cover the hole.
3. Using "flush" blind rivets and some ProSeal, attach the patch over
the hole.
The hole isn't really that big, so I'm not too concerned,
structure-wise, as long as we can get a patch that is secure and not
likely to leak.
Comments? Ideas?
Tim Dawson-Townsend
40025
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Ekberg" <etekberg(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Experimental IFR w/o a certified GPS or looking for a copy |
of RTCA/DO-229C
I work on WAAS for the FAA and have the MOPS (229c) on pdf. There is lots
of good information in the document useful for building a WAAS receiver, but
I don't think you'll find what you are looking for there. The word
experimental occurs only 1 time and in the context of "findings based on
experimental data".
Eric
RV-10 #583 - empennage
On 6/11/06, Deems Davis wrote:
>
>
> I recently read an article posted on Direct2. website
> http://www.direct2avionics.com/pdfs/Using_GPS_for_IFR_flight.pd by a
> Phd CFII that concludes that for EXPERIMENTAL aircraft, it was not
> necessary for the aircraft to be equipped with a CERTIFIED GPS receiver
> to legally file and fly IFR, PROVIDED that you, the pilot/mfg can
> evaluate the GPS functionality, and find it provides all of the
> necessary pilot input (as defined in the TSO) for IFR flight.
>
> This sounded like it was worth looking into. I verified this opinion
> with a competitor of Direct2. So off I go to study TSO-C146 the Standard
> document for WAAS GPS, unfortunately there is nothing in the document
> regarding functional requirements other than a reference to:
> RTCA/DO-229B (which I learned has since been superceeded w/
> RTCA/DO-229C). Another Google search reveals that this document is
> available but with a cost which ranged from $108-370 per copy.
> Does anyone know of a 'library' where this document could be 'rented' or
> checked-out. a couple hundred bucks is a steep price for someone just
> investigating an idea/thought.
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Fuse
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Experimental IFR w/o a certified GPS or looking for a copy |
of RTCA/DO-229C
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
Yeah, in general, TSOs are really equipment specs, not operational
specs, and TSO'ed equipment just helps with the certification of an
aircraft installation by STC or TC. (in fact, certified aircraft can
even get away with non-TSO equipment, if they can convince the FAA to
allow it under their TC.)
For experimental aircraft, in general, TSOs are not really necessary,
since there is no STC or TC. (just look at all of us using GRT or other
"non-TSO'ed" equipment for engine instruments, and the FAA doesn't ask
us to prove they meet some spec.)
However, the FAA may have blurred lines by issuing ACs that blend
operational and equipment requirements. (specific to IFR GPS ops, etc.)
Isn't FAA certification a wonderfully transparent and easy process?
TDT
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Ekberg
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Experimental IFR w/o a certified GPS or looking
for a copy of RTCA/DO-229C
I work on WAAS for the FAA and have the MOPS (229c) on pdf. There is
lots of good information in the document useful for building a WAAS
receiver, but I don't think you'll find what you are looking for there.
The word experimental occurs only 1 time and in the context of "findings
based on experimental data".
Eric
RV-10 #583 - empennage
On 6/11/06, Deems Davis wrote:
I recently read an article posted on Direct2. website
http://www.direct2avionics.com/pdfs/Using_GPS_for_IFR_flight.pd by a
Phd CFII that concludes that for EXPERIMENTAL aircraft, it was not
necessary for the aircraft to be equipped with a CERTIFIED GPS receiver
to legally file and fly IFR, PROVIDED that you, the pilot/mfg can
evaluate the GPS functionality, and find it provides all of the
necessary pilot input (as defined in the TSO) for IFR flight.
This sounded like it was worth looking into. I verified this opinion
with a competitor of Direct2. So off I go to study TSO-C146 the Standard
document for WAAS GPS, unfortunately there is nothing in the document
regarding functional requirements other than a reference to:
RTCA/DO-229B (which I learned has since been superceeded w/
RTCA/DO-229C). Another Google search reveals that this document is
available but with a cost which ranged from $108-370 per copy.
Does anyone know of a 'library' where this document could be 'rented' or
checked-out. a couple hundred bucks is a steep price for someone just
investigating an idea/thought.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Experimental IFR w/o a certified GPS or looking for a |
copy of RTCA/DO-229C
I understand the part about Experimental aircraft not requiring TSO'd or
certified equipment, but there has been an understanding that in order
to file and fly IFR/G you needed to have an IFR tso'd GPS on board. The
article I read stated that you did not if you as the pilot/builder could
determine that the GPS you used met the functional requirements of the
TSO. Hence the inquiry re 229C to find out just what hurdles are required.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
> Yeah, in general, TSOs are really equipment specs, not operational
> specs, and TSOed equipment just helps with the certification of an
> aircraft installation by STC or TC. (in fact, certified aircraft can
> even get away with non-TSO equipment, if they can convince the FAA to
> allow it under their TC.)
>
> For experimental aircraft, in general, TSOs are not really necessary,
> since there is no STC or TC. (just look at all of us using GRT or
> other non-TSOed equipment for engine instruments, and the FAA
> doesnt ask us to prove they meet some spec.)
>
> However, the FAA may have blurred lines by issuing ACs that blend
> operational and equipment requirements. (specific to IFR GPS ops, etc.)
>
> Isnt FAA certification a wonderfully transparent and easy process?
>
> TDT
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Ekberg
> *Sent:* Monday, June 12, 2006 8:50 AM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Experimental IFR w/o a certified GPS or
> looking for a copy of RTCA/DO-229C
>
> I work on WAAS for the FAA and have the MOPS (229c) on pdf. There is
> lots of good information in the document useful for building a WAAS
> receiver, but I don't think you'll find what you are looking for
> there. The word experimental occurs only 1 time and in the context of
> "findings based on experimental data".
>
> Eric
>
> RV-10 #583 - empennage
>
>
> On 6/11/06, *Deems Davis* > wrote:
>
> >
>
> I recently read an article posted on Direct2. website
> http://www.direct2avionics.com/pdfs/Using_GPS_for_IFR_flight.pd by a
> Phd CFII that concludes that for EXPERIMENTAL aircraft, it was not
> necessary for the aircraft to be equipped with a CERTIFIED GPS receiver
> to legally file and fly IFR, PROVIDED that you, the pilot/mfg can
> evaluate the GPS functionality, and find it provides all of the
> necessary pilot input (as defined in the TSO) for IFR flight.
>
> This sounded like it was worth looking into. I verified this opinion
> with a competitor of Direct2. So off I go to study TSO-C146 the Standard
> document for WAAS GPS, unfortunately there is nothing in the document
> regarding functional requirements other than a reference to:
> RTCA/DO-229B (which I learned has since been superceeded w/
> RTCA/DO-229C). Another Google search reveals that this document is
> available but with a cost which ranged from $108-370 per copy.
> Does anyone know of a 'library' where this document could be 'rented' or
> checked-out. a couple hundred bucks is a steep price for someone just
> investigating an idea/thought.
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Fuse
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Experimental IFR w/o a certified GPS or looking for a |
copy of RTCA/DO-229C
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
Well, as someone else pointed out, integrity monitoring is a key feature
of IFR GPS units, so if a unit lacks that, it's a non-starter if you are
trying to match the "functional requirements" of the TSO.
Conceptually, you should be able to test the "functional requirements"
of a GPS unit without knowing the inside of it, but you will probably
need an anechoic chamber and a GPS signal simulator. You can't fly
around and compare your results to a map . . .
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Experimental IFR w/o a certified GPS or looking
for a copy of RTCA/DO-229C
I understand the part about Experimental aircraft not requiring TSO'd or
certified equipment, but there has been an understanding that in order
to file and fly IFR/G you needed to have an IFR tso'd GPS on board. The
article I read stated that you did not if you as the pilot/builder could
determine that the GPS you used met the functional requirements of the
TSO. Hence the inquiry re 229C to find out just what hurdles are
required.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
> Yeah, in general, TSOs are really equipment specs, not operational
> specs, and TSO'ed equipment just helps with the certification of an
> aircraft installation by STC or TC. (in fact, certified aircraft can
> even get away with non-TSO equipment, if they can convince the FAA to
> allow it under their TC.)
>
> For experimental aircraft, in general, TSOs are not really necessary,
> since there is no STC or TC. (just look at all of us using GRT or
> other "non-TSO'ed" equipment for engine instruments, and the FAA
> doesn't ask us to prove they meet some spec.)
>
> However, the FAA may have blurred lines by issuing ACs that blend
> operational and equipment requirements. (specific to IFR GPS ops,
etc.)
>
> Isn't FAA certification a wonderfully transparent and easy process?
>
> TDT
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric
Ekberg
> *Sent:* Monday, June 12, 2006 8:50 AM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Experimental IFR w/o a certified GPS or
> looking for a copy of RTCA/DO-229C
>
> I work on WAAS for the FAA and have the MOPS (229c) on pdf. There is
> lots of good information in the document useful for building a WAAS
> receiver, but I don't think you'll find what you are looking for
> there. The word experimental occurs only 1 time and in the context of
> "findings based on experimental data".
>
> Eric
>
> RV-10 #583 - empennage
>
>
> On 6/11/06, *Deems Davis* > wrote:
>
> >
>
> I recently read an article posted on Direct2. website
> http://www.direct2avionics.com/pdfs/Using_GPS_for_IFR_flight.pd by a
> Phd CFII that concludes that for EXPERIMENTAL aircraft, it was not
> necessary for the aircraft to be equipped with a CERTIFIED GPS
receiver
> to legally file and fly IFR, PROVIDED that you, the pilot/mfg can
> evaluate the GPS functionality, and find it provides all of the
> necessary pilot input (as defined in the TSO) for IFR flight.
>
> This sounded like it was worth looking into. I verified this opinion
> with a competitor of Direct2. So off I go to study TSO-C146 the
Standard
> document for WAAS GPS, unfortunately there is nothing in the document
> regarding functional requirements other than a reference to:
> RTCA/DO-229B (which I learned has since been superceeded w/
> RTCA/DO-229C). Another Google search reveals that this document is
> available but with a cost which ranged from $108-370 per copy.
> Does anyone know of a 'library' where this document could be 'rented'
or
> checked-out. a couple hundred bucks is a steep price for someone just
> investigating an idea/thought.
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Fuse
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
| From: | "Vern W. Smith" <Vern(at)teclabsinc.com> |
Hi Zack,
I talked to Scott at Van's about control surface twist. He said for the
ailerons 3/16" was the QC limit for the QB ailerons that come into the
factory. This is measured by laying the aileron on a flat surface,
finding the corner that is not sitting flat on the table and measuring
the distant between that spot on the skin and the table top.
I also asked if the 3/16" rule applied to the flaps and was told if one
can get 3/16" or less great. But it is a very long surface and not as
critical as the aileron (though still important) because the flap is
fixed in position where the aileron "floats" in the air stream. So
twists in an aileron tend to change the air flow over them and push them
out of alignment in flight. Hope this is of help.
Vern Smith (#40324 flaps done going back to the fuel tanks!)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of zackrv8
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 12:43 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Trailing Edges
Rick and Jay,
Thanks for the replies. I just found out that I indeed have a
"twisted" flap. You have to take great care when builing those long
pieces. Inducing a twist or warp is very, very easy.
My flaps are so bad (in my opinion) that I need to redo them. I will
try drilling out the trailing edge rivets and use a heat gun to break
the 2216 epoxy. If I booger it up, Vans will get more of my money!
For the rest of you building the flaps, take great care to follow the
instructions and make sure you have a flat table and weigh the flap down
like the plans call for.
Zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com> |
Just thought us brothers and sisters in RV-10 land should know (and be
forewarned of):
Fellow RV-10 builder, Bruce Breckenridge, on Saturday, June 10, 2006,
followed in the footsteps of his beautiful wife, and is now a pilot with all
the privileges and responsibilities thereof, therein, thereto and therefore!
Bruce and Becky! Congratulations! Just remember, the PIC in the right seat
must at all times be polite to the PIC in the left seat, no matter how wrong
and ignorant he (or she) appears to be! Enjoy!
All our best,
John Jessen
~328 Tailcone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill DeRouchey <billderou(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Experimental IFR w/o a certified GPS or looking for a copy |
of RTCA/DO-229C
I have two questions regarding blending experimental equipment with certified equipment.
In July 2003 I ordered an RV-10 kit and began designing out all vacuum-based
components ending up with a complete IFR glass panel. The PFD/EFIS was implemented
from scratch.
The panel is highly integrated and the main pieces are:
1) Garmin 430 and 330.
2) Own display computer driving a 10.4" sunlight rated industrial LCD.
3) Own calibrated air data computer with high sensitivity.
4) Commercial 360 degree, accurate solid state gyro pack.
5) Own black box to convert all the discretes and analog outputs from the Garmin
430 to packets.
6) Good IFR Tru-Trak 2-axis autopilot.
All the above has been tested, prototyped and installed in our RV-10. First flight
will occur in July.
My two questions are:
Since I have pulled the Garmin Glideslope/Localizer CDI and annunicators into
my
experimental display does this negate my legal ability to fly IFR?
Since my experimental air data computer is supplying pressure altitude to
the
Garmin 330 transponder does this satisfy all VFR & IFR requirements? I will
have a licensed avionics shop perform a standard pitot/static & transponder
certification.
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, RV-10 kit #40029
billderou(at)yahoo.com
the requiRe: the blending operational and equipment requirements as mentioned
by Tim Dawson-Townsend
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } Yeah, in general, TSOs
are really equipment specs, not operational specs, and TSOed equipment just
helps with the certification of an aircraft installation by STC or TC. (in fact,
certified aircraft can even get away with non-TSO equipment, if they can convince
the FAA to allow it under their TC.)
For experimental aircraft, in general, TSOs are not really necessary, since there
is no STC or TC. (just look at all of us using GRT or other non-TSOed equipment
for engine instruments, and the FAA doesnt ask us to prove they meet some
spec.)
However, the FAA may have blurred lines by issuing ACs that blend operational
and equipment requirements. (specific to IFR GPS ops, etc.)
Isnt FAA certification a wonderfully transparent and easy process?
TDT
---------------------------------
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Ekberg
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Experimental IFR w/o a certified GPS or looking for a copy
of RTCA/DO-229C
I work on WAAS for the FAA and have the MOPS (229c) on pdf. There is lots
of good information in the document useful for building a WAAS receiver, but I
don't think you'll find what you are looking for there. The word experimental
occurs only 1 time and in the context of "findings based on experimental data".
Eric
RV-10 #583 - empennage
On 6/11/06, Deems Davis wrote:
I recently read an article posted on Direct2. website
http://www.direct2avionics.com/pdfs/Using_GPS_for_IFR_flight.pd by a
Phd CFII that concludes that for EXPERIMENTAL aircraft, it was not
necessary for the aircraft to be equipped with a CERTIFIED GPS receiver
to legally file and fly IFR, PROVIDED that you, the pilot/mfg can
evaluate the GPS functionality, and find it provides all of the
necessary pilot input (as defined in the TSO) for IFR flight.
This sounded like it was worth looking into. I verified this opinion
with a competitor of Direct2. So off I go to study TSO-C146 the Standard
document for WAAS GPS, unfortunately there is nothing in the document
regarding functional requirements other than a reference to:
RTCA/DO-229B (which I learned has since been superceeded w/
RTCA/DO-229C). Another Google search reveals that this document is
available but with a cost which ranged from $108-370 per copy.
Does anyone know of a 'library' where this document could be 'rented' or
checked-out. a couple hundred bucks is a steep price for someone just
investigating an idea/thought.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
| From: | "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net> |
Vern,
Roger everything you said. I agree. I mounted the right flap on the wing the
other day and it was much, much straighter than the left flap. Definetly had
a twist in the right flap. Mine was more pronounced than 3/16 inch.
Couple things bother me though...My right flap had the bad twist in it and it
nested in between the top and bottom wing skin very nicely (this is the flap
with the bad twist in it). However, the left flap which is almost straight, rubs
pretty good between the top and bottom wing skins in the "flap up" position.
Why?
Also, I noticed near the "wing root" area of the flap (both flaps actually),
that the flap protrudes down below the bottom wing skin yet is flush with the
bottom wing skin near the "outboard" area of the flap Again...why?
Zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=40150#40150
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lauritsen - Work" <mike(at)cleavelandtool.com> |
Just a reminder to those in the area (or with a completed RV). The Boone RV
fly in is this Saturday. Follow this link for more details.
http://wcaircraft.com/boonervday.html
Thanks,
Mike
Mike Lauritsen
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
2225 First St.
Boone, Iowa 50036
515-432-6794
mike(at)cleavelandtool.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
I'm not sure what exactly you are saying in the last paragraph, but as far
as the flap hitting the fuse when it is in the up position, that is normal
from my experience. I guess it is good to have that as close as possible,
so they make it tight tolerance in design which requires some trimming to
get it to fit just right. We has to do some substantial trimming (filing
mainly) on all 4 flaps that I have fit to get them to fit nicely without
scraping/rubbing the fuse. As far as the twist, I have not noticed
anything, but we pretty much followed the pattern of weighing it down on the
table to hold it flat while riveting the trailing edge...I think.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of zackrv8
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 12:55 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Trailing Edges
Vern,
Roger everything you said. I agree. I mounted the right flap on the wing
the other day and it was much, much straighter than the left flap.
Definetly had a twist in the right flap. Mine was more pronounced than 3/16
inch.
Couple things bother me though...My right flap had the bad twist in it and
it nested in between the top and bottom wing skin very nicely (this is the
flap with the bad twist in it). However, the left flap which is almost
straight, rubs pretty good between the top and bottom wing skins in the
"flap up" position. Why?
Also, I noticed near the "wing root" area of the flap (both flaps
actually), that the flap protrudes down below the bottom wing skin yet is
flush with the bottom wing skin near the "outboard" area of the flap
Again...why?
Zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=40150#40150
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com> |
I was planning on being there with my RV-10 (40250) N519RV.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Lauritsen - Work
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 12:15 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV Fly-In
Just a reminder to those in the area (or with a completed RV). The
Boone RV fly in is this Saturday. Follow this link for more details...
http://wcaircraft.com/boonervday.html
Thanks,
Mike
Mike Lauritsen
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
2225 First St.
Boone, Iowa 50036
515-432-6794
mike(at)cleavelandtool.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Experimental IFR w/o a certified GPS or looking for a copy |
of RTCA/DO-229C
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
Sounds like you're good to go to me. It's not TSO'ed equipment, but it
does the necessary functions. To impress the inspector, you could even
borrow a Nav radio test set and drive the Garmin with some simulated
VOR/LOC and GS signals to verify your deviation indicator.
TDT
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
DeRouchey
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 12:50 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Experimental IFR w/o a certified GPS or looking
for a copy of RTCA/DO-229C
I have two questions regarding blending experimental equipment with
certified equipment.
In July 2003 I ordered an RV-10 kit and began designing out all
vacuum-based components ending up with a complete IFR glass panel. The
PFD/EFIS was implemented from scratch.
The panel is highly integrated and the main pieces are:
1) Garmin 430 and 330.
2) Own display computer driving a 10.4" sunlight rated industrial LCD.
3) Own calibrated air data computer with high sensitivity.
4) Commercial 360 degree, accurate solid state gyro pack.
5) Own black box to convert all the discretes and analog outputs from
the Garmin 430 to packets.
6) Good IFR Tru-Trak 2-axis autopilot.
All the above has been tested, prototyped and installed in our RV-10.
First flight will occur in July.
My two questions are:
Since I have pulled the Garmin Glideslope/Localizer CDI and
annunicators into my
experimental display does this negate my legal ability to fly IFR?
Since my experimental air data computer is supplying pressure
altitude to the
Garmin 330 transponder does this satisfy all VFR & IFR requirements?
I will
have a licensed avionics shop perform a standard pitot/static &
transponder
certification.
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, RV-10 kit #40029
billderou(at)yahoo.com
the requiRe: the blending operational and equipment requirements as
mentioned by Tim Dawson-Townsend
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
Yeah, in general, TSOs are really equipment specs, not
operational specs, and TSO'ed equipment just helps with the
certification of an aircraft installation by STC or TC. (in fact,
certified aircraft can even get away with non-TSO equipment, if they can
convince the FAA to allow it under their TC.)
For experimental aircraft, in general, TSOs are not really
necessary, since there is no STC or TC. (just look at all of us using
GRT or other "non-TSO'ed" equipment for engine instruments, and the FAA
doesn't ask us to prove they meet some spec.)
However, the FAA may have blurred lines by issuing ACs that
blend operational and equipment requirements. (specific to IFR GPS ops,
etc.)
Isn't FAA certification a wonderfully transparent and easy
process?
TDT
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Ekberg
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 8:50 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Experimental IFR w/o a certified GPS or
looking for a copy of RTCA/DO-229C
I work on WAAS for the FAA and have the MOPS (229c) on pdf.
There is lots of good information in the document useful for building a
WAAS receiver, but I don't think you'll find what you are looking for
there. The word experimental occurs only 1 time and in the context of
"findings based on experimental data".
Eric
RV-10 #583 - empennage
On 6/11/06, Deems Davis wrote:
>
I recently read an article posted on Direct2. website
http://www.direct2avionics.com/pdfs/Using_GPS_for_IFR_flight.pd
by a
Phd CFII that concludes that for EXPERIMENTAL aircraft, it was
not
necessary for the aircraft to be equipped with a CERTIFIED GPS
receiver
to legally file and fly IFR, PROVIDED that you, the pilot/mfg
can
evaluate the GPS functionality, and find it provides all of the
necessary pilot input (as defined in the TSO) for IFR flight.
This sounded like it was worth looking into. I verified this
opinion
with a competitor of Direct2. So off I go to study TSO-C146 the
Standard
document for WAAS GPS, unfortunately there is nothing in the
document
regarding functional requirements other than a reference to:
RTCA/DO-229B (which I learned has since been superceeded w/
RTCA/DO-229C). Another Google search reveals that this document
is
available but with a cost which ranged from $108-370 per copy.
Does anyone know of a 'library' where this document could be
'rented' or
checked-out. a couple hundred bucks is a steep price for someone
just
investigating an idea/thought.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill DeRouchey <billderou(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Windows & Weld-10 |
I just finished an excellent job of installing the windscreen in my RV-10 and would
like to share the mistakes of installing the previous 4 windows.
In hindsight, three problems needed to be solved:
1) The Weld-10 mix was skinning over too fast and curing within 10 to 15
minutes. Learned that storing package at room temperature will keep the catalyst
from precipitating solids and by mixing only 75% of what is in the small
bottle will slow the cure appreciably. However, the mix will still skin over quickly
making it difficult to work a fillet around the inside edge. Applying plastic
tape to the inside of the window perimeter 3/16 from the edge helps the
cleanup significantly but this tape must be removed quickly or it will be captured
by the mix.
2) Vanss instructions describe the mix should be applied in a thin layer.
This and the ability to not apply good pressure normal to the window edge caused
may voids between the surface of the window and its fiberglass frame. Suggest
applying mix 3/16 thick and covering both the horizontal and vertical edges
of the window indentation in the fiberglass. Do not apply any mix to the window.
It is easier to clean up the excess than fix the voids.
3) A good method to apply suitable holding force took several trials. The
duct tape method is fair but will not pull the plexiglass down tight. It can
physically hold the window against the mix but will not spread the mix. An expert
suggested notching the plexiglass edge, drilling holes through the frame
and using clecos to hold it tight. After the mix set I noticed small cracks deep
underneath the clecos on the rear windows. I can only hope the mix will stop
the cracks from progressing or I must drill some large holes. For the windscreen,
I notched the plexiglass edge, drilled #30 holes through the fiberglass
frame and devised a controllable clamping force using .041 safety wire. Cut up
extra #4 Tefzel wire into 1.5 pieces (Youll find something suitable looking
about). Cut 16 of safety wire and fold it over the center of the Tefzel wire and
twist it a small amount. Now you have a handle with two long tails. Mark on
the window where the notches are so you can
find the holes when they are covered with the Weld-10. Apply the mix to the frame
and gently press the window exactly in place. Quickly cleco the clips to the
metal surface to keep the windscreen from sliding down. With the Tefzel handle
on the outside, stuff the wire through the holes into the inner cabin. Inside
the cabin insert another piece of Tefzel between the wires and pull down twisting
with safety pliers. A helper outside can watch the window seat and stop
the person on the safety pliers from exerting too much pressure. The Tefzel
outer cover will not mark the window nor stick to the mix. The #30 holes can be
easily filled and painted.
Bill DeRouchey
RV-10 N939SB, builder 40029
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Windows & Weld-10 |
| From: | "Conti, Rick" <rick.conti(at)boeing.com> |
Thanks Bill!!
Thank You
Rick Conti
office: 703 - 414 - 6141
blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134
________________________________
From: Bill DeRouchey [mailto:billderou(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 2:32 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Windows & Weld-10
I just finished an excellent job of installing the windscreen in my
RV-10 and would like to share the mistakes of installing the previous 4
windows.
In hindsight, three problems needed to be solved:
1) The Weld-10 mix was skinning over too fast and curing within 10
to 15 minutes. Learned that storing package at room temperature will
keep the catalyst from precipitating solids and by mixing only 75% of
what is in the small bottle will slow the cure appreciably. However, the
mix will still skin over quickly making it difficult to work a fillet
around the inside edge. Applying plastic tape to the inside of the
window perimeter 3/16" from the edge helps the cleanup significantly but
this tape must be removed quickly or it will be captured by the mix.
2) Vans's instructions describe the mix should be applied in a thin
layer. This and the ability to not apply good pressure normal to the
window edge caused may voids between the surface of the window and its
fiberglass frame. Suggest applying mix 3/16" thick and covering both the
horizontal and vertical edges of the window indentation in the
fiberglass. Do not apply any mix to the window. It is easier to clean up
the excess than fix the voids.
3) A good method to apply suitable holding force took several
trials. The duct tape method is fair but will not pull the plexiglass
down tight. It can physically hold the window against the mix but will
not spread the mix. An "expert" suggested notching the plexiglass edge,
drilling holes through the frame and using clecos to hold it tight.
After the mix set I noticed small cracks deep underneath the clecos on
the rear windows. I can only hope the mix will stop the cracks from
progressing or I must drill some large holes. For the windscreen, I
notched the plexiglass edge, drilled #30 holes through the fiberglass
frame and devised a controllable clamping force using .041 safety wire.
Cut up extra #4 Tefzel wire into 1.5" pieces (You'll find something
suitable looking about). Cut 16" of safety wire and fold it over the
center of the Tefzel wire and twist it a small amount. Now you have a
handle with two long tails. Mark on the window where the notches are so
you can find the holes when they are covered with the Weld-10. Apply the
mix to the frame and gently press the window exactly in place. Quickly
cleco the clips to the metal surface to keep the windscreen from sliding
down. With the Tefzel "handle" on the outside, stuff the wire through
the holes into the inner cabin. Inside the cabin insert another piece of
Tefzel between the wires and pull down twisting with safety pliers. A
helper outside can watch the window seat and stop the person on the
safety pliers from exerting too much pressure. The Tefzel outer cover
will not mark the window nor stick to the mix. The #30 holes can be
easily filled and painted.
Bill DeRouchey
RV-10 N939SB, builder 40029
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
I'll be there, thanks!
Bob
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Lauritsen - Work
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 12:15 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV Fly-In
Just a reminder to those in the area (or with a completed RV). The
Boone RV fly in is this Saturday. Follow this link for more details...
http://wcaircraft.com/boonervday.html
Thanks,
Mike
Mike Lauritsen
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
2225 First St.
Boone, Iowa 50036
515-432-6794
mike(at)cleavelandtool.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Experimental IFR w/o a certified GPS or looking for a copy |
of RTCA/DO-229C
Perhaps I don't understand but has anybody been questioned by the FAA or
ATC about whether they have TSOed Class A1 equipment on board and
operational?
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill DeRouchey
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 9:50 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Experimental IFR w/o a certified GPS or
looking for a copy of RTCA/DO-229C
I have two questions regarding blending experimental equipment with
certified equipment.
In July 2003 I ordered an RV-10 kit and began designing out all
vacuum-based components ending up with a complete IFR glass panel. The
PFD/EFIS was implemented from scratch.
The panel is highly integrated and the main pieces are:
1) Garmin 430 and 330.
2) Own display computer driving a 10.4" sunlight rated industrial LCD.
3) Own calibrated air data computer with high sensitivity.
4) Commercial 360 degree, accurate solid state gyro pack.
5) Own black box to convert all the discretes and analog outputs from
the Garmin 430 to packets.
6) Good IFR Tru-Trak 2-axis autopilot.
All the above has been tested, prototyped and installed in our RV-10.
First flight will occur in July.
My two questions are:
Since I have pulled the Garmin Glideslope/Localizer CDI and
annunicators into my
experimental display does this negate my legal ability to fly IFR?
Since my experimental air data computer is supplying pressure
altitude to the
Garmin 330 transponder does this satisfy all VFR & IFR
requirements? I will
have a licensed avionics shop perform a standard pitot/static &
transponder
certification.
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, RV-10 kit #40029
billderou(at)yahoo.com
the requiRe: the blending operational and equipment requirements as
mentioned by Tim Dawson-Townsend
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
Yeah, in general, TSOs are really equipment specs, not operational
specs, and TSO'ed equipment just helps with the certification of an
aircraft installation by STC or TC. (in fact, certified aircraft can
even get away with non-TSO equipment, if they can convince the FAA to
allow it under their TC.)
For experimental aircraft, in general, TSOs are not really
necessary, since there is no STC or TC. (just look at all of us using
GRT or other "non-TSO'ed" equipment for engine instruments, and the FAA
doesn't ask us to prove they meet some spec.)
However, the FAA may have blurred lines by issuing ACs that blend
operational and equipment requirements. (specific to IFR GPS ops, etc.)
Isn't FAA certification a wonderfully transparent and easy process?
TDT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Ekberg
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 8:50 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Experimental IFR w/o a certified GPS or
looking for a copy of RTCA/DO-229C
I work on WAAS for the FAA and have the MOPS (229c) on pdf. There
is lots of good information in the document useful for building a WAAS
receiver, but I don't think you'll find what you are looking for there.
The word experimental occurs only 1 time and in the context of "findings
based on experimental data".
Eric
RV-10 #583 - empennage
On 6/11/06, Deems Davis wrote:
I recently read an article posted on Direct2. website
http://www.direct2avionics.com/pdfs/Using_GPS_for_IFR_flight.pd by
a
Phd CFII that concludes that for EXPERIMENTAL aircraft, it was not
necessary for the aircraft to be equipped with a CERTIFIED GPS
receiver
to legally file and fly IFR, PROVIDED that you, the pilot/mfg can
evaluate the GPS functionality, and find it provides all of the
necessary pilot input (as defined in the TSO) for IFR flight.
This sounded like it was worth looking into. I verified this opinion
with a competitor of Direct2. So off I go to study TSO-C146 the
Standard
document for WAAS GPS, unfortunately there is nothing in the
document
regarding functional requirements other than a reference to:
RTCA/DO-229B (which I learned has since been superceeded w/
RTCA/DO-229C). Another Google search reveals that this document is
available but with a cost which ranged from $108-370 per copy.
Does anyone know of a 'library' where this document could be
'rented' or
checked-out. a couple hundred bucks is a steep price for someone
just
investigating an idea/thought.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Windows & Weld-10 |
The way to hold the windows/windscreen in place while curing is the
"bent aluminum fingers method". create 30-40 aluminum fingers about 1" x
3" out of .062 or .080 material . Bend each finger slightly at the
center. drill a #30 hole at one end and tape generously the other end.
These finger can be clecoed around the window so that the padded end
holds the window to the frame flange and the other end is clecoed into
the lid. Be sure and number them when fitting them and reinstall at the
same location during the final window install. leave in place until
cured. Fill lid holes with an epoxy/glass fiber cabosil mixture.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill DeRouchey
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 11:31 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Windows & Weld-10
I just finished an excellent job of installing the windscreen in my
RV-10 and would like to share the mistakes of installing the previous 4
windows.
In hindsight, three problems needed to be solved:
1) The Weld-10 mix was skinning over too fast and curing within
10 to 15 minutes. Learned that storing package at room temperature will
keep the catalyst from precipitating solids and by mixing only 75% of
what is in the small bottle will slow the cure appreciably. However, the
mix will still skin over quickly making it difficult to work a fillet
around the inside edge. Applying plastic tape to the inside of the
window perimeter 3/16" from the edge helps the cleanup significantly but
this tape must be removed quickly or it will be captured by the mix.
2) Vans's instructions describe the mix should be applied in a
thin layer. This and the ability to not apply good pressure normal to
the window edge caused may voids between the surface of the window and
its fiberglass frame. Suggest applying mix 3/16" thick and covering both
the horizontal and vertical edges of the window indentation in the
fiberglass. Do not apply any mix to the window. It is easier to clean up
the excess than fix the voids.
3) A good method to apply suitable holding force took several
trials. The duct tape method is fair but will not pull the plexiglass
down tight. It can physically hold the window against the mix but will
not spread the mix. An "expert" suggested notching the plexiglass edge,
drilling holes through the frame and using clecos to hold it tight.
After the mix set I noticed small cracks deep underneath the clecos on
the rear windows. I can only hope the mix will stop the cracks from
progressing or I must drill some large holes. For the windscreen, I
notched the plexiglass edge, drilled #30 holes through the fiberglass
frame and devised a controllable clamping force using .041 safety wire.
Cut up extra #4 Tefzel wire into 1.5" pieces (You'll find something
suitable looking about). Cut 16" of safety wire and fold it over the
center of the Tefzel wire and twist it a small amount. Now you have a
handle with two long tails. Mark on the window where the notches are so
you can find the holes when they are covered with the Weld-10. Apply the
mix to the frame and gently press the window exactly in place. Quickly
cleco the clips to the metal surface to keep the windscreen from sliding
down. With the Tefzel "handle" on the outside, stuff the wire through
the holes into the inner cabin. Inside the cabin insert another piece of
Tefzel between the wires and pull down twisting with safety pliers. A
helper outside can watch the window seat and stop the person on the
safety pliers from exerting too much pressure. The Tefzel outer cover
will not mark the window nor stick to the mix. The #30 holes can be
easily filled and painted.
Bill DeRouchey
RV-10 N939SB, builder 40029
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
| From: | "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net> |
Jesse,
OK. Pictures are worth a thousand words. Below are several pics I took of the
flap wing gap.
The first pic was taken between the two inboard flap hinges. Notice how the
flap sticks out below the bottom skin.
The second picture is a closer look. Pretty ugly.
The third pic was taken right next to the middle flap hinge bracket. Perfect!
I write this in hopes that someone else will not go through the same thing I
did.
I am not a first time builder. I have built a slow build RV8 and have a working
knowledge of how Vans kits go together. However, this is stumping me at the
moment.
So, because of these irregularities, I get to build new flaps. What I would
like to know is if anyone else out there seeing the same thing I am?
Btw, this is a slow build RV10 kit.
Zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=40214#40214
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc04921_168.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc04922_221.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc04923_621.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
| From: | "Vern W. Smith" <Vern(at)teclabsinc.com> |
Hi Zack,
Don't know if I can be of much help. I jumped over the fuel tanks and
skinning the bottom of the wings so I'm not able to hang my flaps at
this time.
After looking at your pictures here are some things to think about. Is
the distance between the hinge pivot and the bottom skin the same for
each hinge (check both the wing half of each hinge and the flap half)?
Is the nose skin of the flap more reflexed (sagging) at the inboard end
of the flap? If you have access to a digital protractor clamp the flap
in place so it won't move and take angle readings off of the main skin
(from front to back) along the length of the flap and wing.
Here is the thinking behind it. If either half of the hinge points
progressively run down hill in reference to the skin the whole flap
would droop at one end. Don't know how this could happen with the
pre-punched kits.
If the protractor reading progressively gets worse down the length of
the flap then the problem may be the twist in the flap is centered
around the spar flap (this would cause the leading edge to droop and the
trailing edge to rise or via versa. Well that's my $.02.
Vern (#40324)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of zackrv8
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 9:55 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Trailing Edges
Vern,
Roger everything you said. I agree. I mounted the right flap on the
wing the other day and it was much, much straighter than the left flap.
Definetly had a twist in the right flap. Mine was more pronounced than
3/16 inch.
Couple things bother me though...My right flap had the bad twist in it
and it nested in between the top and bottom wing skin very nicely (this
is the flap with the bad twist in it). However, the left flap which is
almost straight, rubs pretty good between the top and bottom wing skins
in the "flap up" position. Why?
Also, I noticed near the "wing root" area of the flap (both flaps
actually), that the flap protrudes down below the bottom wing skin yet
is flush with the bottom wing skin near the "outboard" area of the flap
Again...why?
Zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=40150#40150
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdalton77" <jdalton77(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Suggestion for purchasing a Carb for my 0-320. |
The carb on my PA28 needs to be replaced. I'm still flying the Cherokee
while I'm building my -10. Can anyone suggest the best source for
purchasing a new one?
Jeff
Tail kit almost done
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Suggestion for purchasing a Carb for my 0-320. |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
jdalton77 wrote:
> The carb on my PA28 needs to be replaced. I'm still flying the
> Cherokee while I'm building my -10. Can anyone suggest the best
> source for purchasing a new one?
>
Hi Jeff,
I don't know about purchasing a new one, but I can highly recommend
a place to have yours rebuilt.
They may also have ones available for purchase.
*Mike's Aircraft Fuel Metering
/ 9406 E 46th St N
Tulsa, OK 741175807
USA
Phone: 918-838-6217
Fax: 918-838-7047
-Dj
/*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <toaster73(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
Zack
I checked my flaps, I have good alignment of the trailing edges of the flaps
and ailerons. I built one aileron all dorked up and twisted (in a hurry). SO
I built another one. But what I did notice on my flaps using your ruler
technique is that between the nose ribs of the flap along the leading edge
of the flap the nose seems to bulge out a bit and I get that nose area to
be a little lower than the bottom skin. If I move the flap from neutral
(neutral being the slightly reflexed position of the nose resting against
the rear spar at the ing root) the bottom nose of the flap moves in
alignment with the bottom skin in those bulging areas. It seems too that a
slight relocation of the hinge centers could affect things too, that could
be done by machining off center bushings but this would be a pain. I think
massaging the bulging area carefully could help too and also not setting the
flap at the full reflexed postion or a combination. I am going to stick with
mine. Since you have trailing edge problems you must have twist too.
-Chris Lucas
#40072 (fuselage)
----- Original Message -----
From: "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 4:57 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Trailing Edges
>
> Jesse,
>
> OK. Pictures are worth a thousand words. Below are several pics I took
> of the flap wing gap.
>
> The first pic was taken between the two inboard flap hinges. Notice how
> the flap sticks out below the bottom skin.
>
> The second picture is a closer look. Pretty ugly.
>
> The third pic was taken right next to the middle flap hinge bracket.
> Perfect!
>
> I write this in hopes that someone else will not go through the same
> thing I did.
>
> I am not a first time builder. I have built a slow build RV8 and have a
> working knowledge of how Vans kits go together. However, this is stumping
> me at the moment.
>
> So, because of these irregularities, I get to build new flaps. What I
> would like to know is if anyone else out there seeing the same thing I am?
>
> Btw, this is a slow build RV10 kit.
>
> Zack
>
> --------
> RV8 #80125
> RV10 # 40512
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=40214#40214
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc04921_168.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc04922_221.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc04923_621.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
| From: | "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net> |
Guys,
Again, I agree with everything you guys are saying that are possible reasons
for the twist in the flaps and the bulging of the nose skin of the flaps below
the bottom wing skin.
Because of the geometry of the way the flaps move when extended, they move away
from the wing. I noticed on one flap/aileron alignment that the trailing edges
match up perfectly when the flap is resting its nose against the back spar.
As Chris said, the flaps are reflexed in their neutral position. However,
the bottom of the flap bulges below the skin. I can move the flap just a hair
and the bulging flap problem goes away (because of the geometry). But then
the trailing edges don't line up.
So, maybe the flap nose skin is not up tight against the nose ribs. Maybe the
spar is so twisted that it forces the nose ribs downward. Either way, I can't
accept it.
So, I will build 2 new flaps. This time, I will deviate from the plans just
a little. I will pin the skeleton on the wing first and check alignment. I may
then clamp the aileron and flap trailing edges together in alignment with
some very long straight edges. Then, I may even rivet the sucker together right
on the wing. That way, it should turn out fairly well in alignment. The wing
should make a perfect jig for holding the skeleton in place while riveting.
What do you guys think? Think it can be done that way?
Tim, I am very curious if you have any of these flap problems that I have been
talking about.
zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=40834#40834
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
As far as riveting the trailing edge while mounted on the wing, I don't know
if I recommend this. Do you use Proseal on the trailing edge? This is how
we do them...
We rivet the thing together as per the plans, then we take 1.5" or so
aluminum angle with holes the same as the trailing edge, proseal the
trailing edge and then cleco through the trailing edge and two of these
angles, one on top and one on bottom and let the proseal dry overnight while
the flap/aileron/rudder/elevator is laying flat on a flat surface (adding
weight is a good idea also). The next day we take off the angles, pass a
bit through the holes to clean out the proseal, scrub all proseal off the
skins, then back rivet the whole thing, alternating 7-10 holes (easiest by
marking "1 through whatever" the whole way down) on the steel table surface
(can also be done on steel angle hanging off the edge of the table). This
ends up in a perfect fit every time and a very straight trailing edge. Once
the proseal sets up, you can check for good alignment prior to riveting. We
have had one time where something moved and the alignment was lost, so we
opened up the trailing edge, cleaned off all the proseal, and started over.
This may be the way most people do it, and it may be the way the plans say
to do it, but I haven't read the plans on this part. I just have seen them
done this way so that's how we do them. One set of 2 pieces of angle the
length of the flap can be used for all 7 parts that require leading edge
material.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of zackrv8
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 8:23 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Trailing Edges
Guys,
Again, I agree with everything you guys are saying that are possible
reasons for the twist in the flaps and the bulging of the nose skin of the
flaps below the bottom wing skin.
Because of the geometry of the way the flaps move when extended, they move
away from the wing. I noticed on one flap/aileron alignment that the
trailing edges match up perfectly when the flap is resting its nose against
the back spar. As Chris said, the flaps are reflexed in their neutral
position. However, the bottom of the flap bulges below the skin. I can
move the flap just a hair and the bulging flap problem goes away (because of
the geometry). But then the trailing edges don't line up.
So, maybe the flap nose skin is not up tight against the nose ribs. Maybe
the spar is so twisted that it forces the nose ribs downward. Either way, I
can't accept it.
So, I will build 2 new flaps. This time, I will deviate from the plans
just a little. I will pin the skeleton on the wing first and check
alignment. I may then clamp the aileron and flap trailing edges together in
alignment with some very long straight edges. Then, I may even rivet the
sucker together right on the wing. That way, it should turn out fairly well
in alignment. The wing should make a perfect jig for holding the skeleton
in place while riveting.
What do you guys think? Think it can be done that way?
Tim, I am very curious if you have any of these flap problems that I have
been talking about.
zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=40834#40834
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
Zack,
I hope I'm the Tim you meant....so I'll throw in my 1 cent. (I'd throw
in 2, but I don't know if I have that much left. ;) )
I'm just confused about what I'm seeing back and forth in the emails.
I saw your 3 pictures and I can't even begin to imagine how it came out
that way. I'm not trying to be insulting, so please don't take it that
way, but man, somethings wrong there. (I know you know that. ;) )
I only wish I could come up with a good reason.
I would durn well hope that the problem isn't with how the flap attach
brackets are, that are riveted to the wing....if they're bad, I'd hope
that they're bad on the FLAP side, not the wing side. You may want
to use a ruler and square and whatever you can, and verify that the
approximate orientations and distances to the holes on the flap brackets
on the WING side are all symmetrical with eachother. I mean, measure
from the skin edge or rivet line, or center of rear spar, to the holes
in the flap brackets, and make sure they're all identical. I'm
almost 100% sure they should be. If they are, then you can breathe
and sleep better knowing that the wing is OK, and the flaps are all
that's wrong.
When you get them right, it will be just like you imagine....they'll
all look like your 3rd picture. When the flaps are all the way up to
the rear spar, they're actually reflexed about 3 degrees I think.
I *think* if I remember right, that's the orientation I had them when
I lined up the trailing edges with my ailerons.
Now, I built that section 100% following the plans. I don't know if
you had bad parts, or slipped up somewhere, but if the parts were good,
I don't think it would be that easy to make that nasty looking of
a mistake. Make sure when you get the new parts that they're
also all symmetrical.
One other thing about building them straight.... I see you guys talking
about building some crooked ailerons and flaps. I just don't know
how they could come out that bad....and again, I'm not trying to
be insulting, so don't read any "tone" into that. All I can guess is
that 2 things are causing the problems:
1) Make sure you're using a nice, solid, flat 8' table to build these
on. My tables had doubled 2x4's and a nice solid rim around the top
with lots of under bracing and a 3/4" particle board top. Very nice
heavy tables.
2) I really think this is where people shouldn't be trying to get by
without the proseal. I set mine up, used that angle steel to cleco mine
to, as a backing plate, and used proseal to keep the edges together,
letting them cure for a night or two before I riveted. I can't say
that this is why they came out great, but I think that angle steel
idea (stolen from I think Mike Howe) was a real key, along with the
proseal.
Anyway, mine are super straight, no bows, no twists, and retracted the
bottoms are slightly reflexed, and the tops make a nice smooth line
all the way down the wing to the trailing edge. The forward nose is
straight, and runs into the rear spar evenly. Being a first time
builder, I guess I could call it beginners luck. But, you never
know if the parts were maybe bad in one batch or something. Stranger
things have happened. If you figure out the cause, post it. It will
be interesting.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
zackrv8 wrote:
>
> Guys,
>
> Again, I agree with everything you guys are saying that are possible
> reasons for the twist in the flaps and the bulging of the nose skin
> of the flaps below the bottom wing skin.
>
> Because of the geometry of the way the flaps move when extended, they
> move away from the wing. I noticed on one flap/aileron alignment
> that the trailing edges match up perfectly when the flap is resting
> its nose against the back spar. As Chris said, the flaps are
> reflexed in their neutral position. However, the bottom of the flap
> bulges below the skin. I can move the flap just a hair and the
> bulging flap problem goes away (because of the geometry). But then
> the trailing edges don't line up.
>
> So, maybe the flap nose skin is not up tight against the nose ribs.
> Maybe the spar is so twisted that it forces the nose ribs downward.
> Either way, I can't accept it.
>
> So, I will build 2 new flaps. This time, I will deviate from the
> plans just a little. I will pin the skeleton on the wing first and
> check alignment. I may then clamp the aileron and flap trailing
> edges together in alignment with some very long straight edges.
> Then, I may even rivet the sucker together right on the wing. That
> way, it should turn out fairly well in alignment. The wing should
> make a perfect jig for holding the skeleton in place while riveting.
>
> What do you guys think? Think it can be done that way?
>
> Tim, I am very curious if you have any of these flap problems that I
> have been talking about.
>
> zack
>
> -------- RV8 #80125 RV10 # 40512
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
PS to my previous post:
This page shows a picture of the flaps all laid up:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/wing/20041214/RV200412120032.html
This one is a link to my flaps section:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/wing/20041214/index.html
This one talks about the angle iron while doing the rudder.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/rudder/20040325/index.html
Thinking back, I can't remember if I used it while prosealing the
flaps, or just used it during riveting. Anyway, from the flap
photo above, you can see that with a very sturdy and straight bench,
and overhanging the trailing edge, they'd still be straight while
curing proseal. Additionally, and NOT shown in the photo, while
I let the proseal cure, I piled on lots of weight to the flaps...
spare steel bars, boxes of clecos, and stuff like that....anything
I could find that would help distribute the weight and keep all
the whole length of both flaps tightly laying against the workbench.
Commenting on Jesse's post, he did a great job explaining....it's
really what I think is the "right" way to do this task, and probably
why he/we didn't have a problem with twists.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Jesse Saint wrote:
> As far as riveting the trailing edge while mounted on the wing, I don't
> know if I recommend this. Do you use Proseal on the trailing edge?
> This is how we do them...
>
> We rivet the thing together as per the plans, then we take 1.5" or so
> aluminum angle with holes the same as the trailing edge, proseal the
> trailing edge and then cleco through the trailing edge and two of these
> angles, one on top and one on bottom and let the proseal dry overnight
> while the flap/aileron/rudder/elevator is laying flat on a flat surface
> (adding weight is a good idea also). The next day we take off the
> angles, pass a bit through the holes to clean out the proseal, scrub all
> proseal off the skins, then back rivet the whole thing, alternating 7-10
> holes (easiest by marking "1 through whatever" the whole way down) on
> the steel table surface (can also be done on steel angle hanging off the
> edge of the table). This ends up in a perfect fit every time and a very
> straight trailing edge. Once the proseal sets up, you can check for
> good alignment prior to riveting. We have had one time where something
> moved and the alignment was lost, so we opened up the trailing edge,
> cleaned off all the proseal, and started over.
>
> This may be the way most people do it, and it may be the way the plans
> say to do it, but I haven't read the plans on this part. I just have
> seen them done this way so that's how we do them. One set of 2 pieces
> of angle the length of the flap can be used for all 7 parts that require
> leading edge material.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse(at)itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org
> W: 352-465-4545
> C: 352-427-0285
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of zackrv8
> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 8:23 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Trailing Edges
>
>
> Guys,
>
> Again, I agree with everything you guys are saying that are possible
> reasons for the twist in the flaps and the bulging of the nose skin of
> the flaps below the bottom wing skin.
>
> Because of the geometry of the way the flaps move when extended, they
> move away from the wing. I noticed on one flap/aileron alignment that
> the trailing edges match up perfectly when the flap is resting its nose
> against the back spar. As Chris said, the flaps are reflexed in their
> neutral position. However, the bottom of the flap bulges below the
> skin. I can move the flap just a hair and the bulging flap problem goes
> away (because of the geometry). But then the trailing edges don't line up.
>
> So, maybe the flap nose skin is not up tight against the nose ribs.
> Maybe the spar is so twisted that it forces the nose ribs downward.
> Either way, I can't accept it.
>
> So, I will build 2 new flaps. This time, I will deviate from the
> plans just a little. I will pin the skeleton on the wing first and
> check alignment. I may then clamp the aileron and flap trailing edges
> together in alignment with some very long straight edges. Then, I may
> even rivet the sucker together right on the wing. That way, it should
> turn out fairly well in alignment. The wing should make a perfect jig
> for holding the skeleton in place while riveting.
>
> What do you guys think? Think it can be done that way?
>
> Tim, I am very curious if you have any of these flap problems that I
> have been talking about.
>
> zack
>
> --------
> RV8 #80125
> RV10 # 40512
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=40834#40834
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
>
>
> Wiki!
>
> support!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Release Date: 6/11/2006
>
>
> --
> 6/11/2006
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
| From: | "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net> |
Tim and all the others that have been so helpful....
The first thing I checked when things were not lining up was the hinge brackets
on the wings. The are dead nuts on. Thank you Tim....I will sleep well tonight!
Anyway, I'll report back to you guys as soon as I get the new parts. Also thanks
to the many suggestions out there for building straight control surfaces.
You guys are the best for sharing!
Zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=40854#40854
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
Well, I didn't build the flap on the wing but I did make some brackets
to
hold the flap hinges in alignment while I built it. In the picture, the
clamp at the nose is to pull the trailing edge tight and remove the
waves.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
-----Original Message-----
Guys,
....So, I will build 2 new flaps. This time, I will deviate from the
plans just a little. I will pin the skeleton on the wing first and
check
alignment. I may then clamp the aileron and flap trailing edges
together in
alignment with some very long straight edges. Then, I may even rivet
the
sucker together right on the wing. That way, it should turn out fairly
well
in alignment. The wing should make a perfect jig for holding the
skeleton
in place while riveting.
zack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark & Gina Steffensen" <steffco1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
Today I asked Van's regarding cracking between the fiberglass window
frames and the Plexiglas.
Van's told me that they were not aware that this is an issue. I saw this
cracking for myself on several RV10's at Sun in Fun.
I am getting close to installing my windows, has anyone devised an
alternative method to help prevent the cracking?
It appears to me that this anomaly it is due to the different expansion
and contracting properties of the fiberglass and Plexiglas.
I am planning on having a 1/16 gap between the plexi and window frames,
install windows with the Weld-10. Next I am planning on installing 2
inch fiberglass tape around the perimeter of the windows overlapping the
junction...Next fill and sand and fair into the fuselage lid and or
doors...
Any thoughts.....Mark
Mark Steffensen
Atlanta GA
RV8A Sold
RV10 Soon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
Another cosmetic solution is to add some pin striping at the window
junction per Vic Syracuse as see here
<http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Construct/SunNFun_2006/Vic%20RV10/slides/2006-04-07-SnF-17.html>.
Not a cure but it does hide the cracks.
--
Larry Rosen
RV-10 #356
http://lrosen.nerv10.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
Several things I would add to the previous message. Glassing the windows
in requires at least two people. One on the inside to clear the excess
and one on the outside to clear the excess insert the clecoes.
Additionally it helps to have some Teflon release cloth to place over
the edges to create a nice matte finish, absorb excess and a nice smooth
surface for further sanding.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise?
Mark,
Mat be too late for you but Davis McNeill provided this tidbit that is
uesed with grat sucess on Glasairs...hopefullu it will help others if
you can't use it.
Rick S.
40185
As provided by David:
Although the procedure takes only about an hour to accomplish per
window, setup and planning is substantially more.. I recommend that you
do one window to get the procs correct and plan to do the windshield on
a day by itself.
(0) tape off the inside and outside flange area of the window using 3M
Fineline (.5 width)
(1) then signstrip blue on the center areas to protect the inside and
outside of the window . Be generous when painting it on as this makes it
easy to pull off.
(2) sand the inside/outside edges of the window in the area of the
flange to roughen the glass for adhesion.
(3) sand the flanges of the lid; CLEAN ALL SANDED EDGES WITH ACETONE
(4) prepare a set of aluminum "fingers" . Strips of .080 1" by 3" ;
with a slight bend in the center. one end gets a #30 hole and the other
is adequately taped. each is numbered. See the picture.
(5) Trim the window to fit the frame and temporarily hold in place
with the NUMBERED "fingers". Clecoes should be place about .50" outside
the window. Drill #30 only through the external layer; NOT THROUGH THE
LID. RETAPE OFF THE EDGES 3M FINELINE TAPE .
(6) prepare a mixture of epoxy with chopped fibers and cabosil.
Consistency should be peanut butter. Potlife should plan to be 30-40
minutes. We refrigerated it to further slow the cure.
(7) putty the lid flanges, wet the window flanges with a small amount
of catalyzed epoxy and place window in frame; holding in place with
"fingers" at the preplanned locations.
(8) inside person should be wiping excess putty away with a 50-50
mixture of mineral spirirts and acetone; outside person should be
smoothing putty on outside flange. excess will be sanded off later. then
PULL THE TAPES BEFORE IT CURES.
(9) allow to cure 24 hours.
(10) Inside lid , flange should be finished . If rough, tape glass and
sand lightly.
(11) outside the lid, RETAPE the edge at the flange line, then cover
the flange with two 1" layers of glass (E-7782?). (Note this was the
Glastar procedure.) Remember to pull the tape before the layered glass
sets up. The windscreen on the RV10 requires a different layering of
glass on the aluminum.
(12) Retape the edge , then sand and fill external flange area for
paint. The sanding can feather into the edge of the tape.
(13) when painted , paint should cover the flange.
(14) MUST BE DONE BEFORE THE MIXTURE CURES. If you accidentally get
epoxy on the Plexiglas during the process, it can be safely removed
using a clean cloth and the 50-50 mixture of mineral spirits and
acetone. Have it handy.
(15) 50-50 mixture is also good for removing any signstrip that does
not come off when finally removing the protective covering before
flight.
=========================
=========================
http://wiki.matronics.com
=========================
=========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
Also if anyone wants to see the finished product, my Glastar N48007 will
be parked in the homebuilt area Thursday morning through Saturday night
at OSH.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise?
Mark,
Mat be too late for you but Davis McNeill provided this tidbit that is
uesed with grat sucess on Glasairs...hopefullu it will help others if
you can't use it.
Rick S.
40185
As provided by David:
Although the procedure takes only about an hour to accomplish per
window, setup and planning is substantially more.. I recommend that you
do one window to get the procs correct and plan to do the windshield on
a day by itself.
(0) tape off the inside and outside flange area of the window using 3M
Fineline (.5 width)
(1) then signstrip blue on the center areas to protect the inside and
outside of the window . Be generous when painting it on as this makes it
easy to pull off.
(2) sand the inside/outside edges of the window in the area of the
flange to roughen the glass for adhesion.
(3) sand the flanges of the lid; CLEAN ALL SANDED EDGES WITH ACETONE
(4) prepare a set of aluminum "fingers" . Strips of .080 1" by 3" ;
with a slight bend in the center. one end gets a #30 hole and the other
is adequately taped. each is numbered. See the picture.
(5) Trim the window to fit the frame and temporarily hold in place
with the NUMBERED "fingers". Clecoes should be place about .50" outside
the window. Drill #30 only through the external layer; NOT THROUGH THE
LID. RETAPE OFF THE EDGES 3M FINELINE TAPE .
(6) prepare a mixture of epoxy with chopped fibers and cabosil.
Consistency should be peanut butter. Potlife should plan to be 30-40
minutes. We refrigerated it to further slow the cure.
(7) putty the lid flanges, wet the window flanges with a small amount
of catalyzed epoxy and place window in frame; holding in place with
"fingers" at the preplanned locations.
(8) inside person should be wiping excess putty away with a 50-50
mixture of mineral spirirts and acetone; outside person should be
smoothing putty on outside flange. excess will be sanded off later. then
PULL THE TAPES BEFORE IT CURES.
(9) allow to cure 24 hours.
(10) Inside lid , flange should be finished . If rough, tape glass and
sand lightly.
(11) outside the lid, RETAPE the edge at the flange line, then cover
the flange with two 1" layers of glass (E-7782?). (Note this was the
Glastar procedure.) Remember to pull the tape before the layered glass
sets up. The windscreen on the RV10 requires a different layering of
glass on the aluminum.
(12) Retape the edge , then sand and fill external flange area for
paint. The sanding can feather into the edge of the tape.
(13) when painted , paint should cover the flange.
(14) MUST BE DONE BEFORE THE MIXTURE CURES. If you accidentally get
epoxy on the Plexiglas during the process, it can be safely removed
using a clean cloth and the 50-50 mixture of mineral spirits and
acetone. Have it handy.
(15) 50-50 mixture is also good for removing any signstrip that does
not come off when finally removing the protective covering before
flight.
=========================
=========================
http://wiki.matronics.com
=========================
=========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Perry Casson <pcasson(at)sasktel.net> |
| Subject: | Silpruf for window adhesive |
Has anyone tried GE Silpruf to install the windows in their -10 yet?
Following the instructions in a video from http://www.airlinktech.com we
used it to install the windows in my Glastar and it's has a nice long setup
time and the end results look professional. From the reports of fast setup,
mess and cracks from the Van's technique I'm pretty sure I'll use go back to
this technique again.
Perry Casson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
This is the stuff we use for release material.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/vb7025.php
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> |
| Subject: | Silpruf for window adhesive |
Perry,
Have you had any luck painting the silpruf?
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry Casson
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 8:46 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Silpruf for window adhesive
Has anyone tried GE Silpruf to install the windows in their -10 yet?
Following the instructions in a video from http://www.airlinktech.com we
used it to install the windows in my Glastar and it's has a nice long setup
time and the end results look professional. From the reports of fast setup,
mess and cracks from the Van's technique I'm pretty sure I'll use go back to
this technique again.
Perry Casson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Carey" <markacarey(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
I used the 2" fiberglass method and faired it in. My technical advisor
warned me this would happen with only the microballoons or bondo.
>From: "Mark & Gina Steffensen" <steffco1(at)comcast.net>
>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV10-List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise?
>Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 22:24:59 -0400
>
>Today I asked Van's regarding cracking between the fiberglass window frames
>and the Plexiglas.
>
>Van's told me that they were not aware that this is an issue. I saw this
>cracking for myself on several RV10's at Sun in Fun.
>
>I am getting close to installing my windows, has anyone devised an
>alternative method to help prevent the cracking?
>
>It appears to me that this anomaly it is due to the different expansion and
>contracting properties of the fiberglass and Plexiglas.
>
>I am planning on having a 1/16 gap between the plexi and window frames,
>install windows with the Weld-10. Next I am planning on installing 2 inch
>fiberglass tape around the perimeter of the windows overlapping the
>junction...Next fill and sand and fair into the fuselage lid and or
>doors...
>
>Any thoughts.....Mark
>
>Mark Steffensen
>Atlanta GA
>
>RV8A Sold
>RV10 Soon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv10builder <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
David,
Where can I find the "picture(s)" of the process?
Brian
#40308 canopy
David McNeill wrote:
> Also if anyone wants to see the finished product, my Glastar N48007
> will be parked in the homebuilt area Thursday morning through Saturday
> night at OSH.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Rick
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 13, 2006 9:20 PM
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise?
>
> Mark,
>
> Mat be too late for you but Davis McNeill provided this tidbit
> that is uesed with grat sucess on Glasairs...hopefullu it will
> help others if you can't use it.
>
> Rick S.
> 40185
>
> As provided by David:
>
>
> Although the procedure takes only about an hour to accomplish per
> window, setup and planning is substantially more.. I recommend
> that you do one window to get the procs correct and plan to do the
> windshield on a day by itself.
>
>
>
> (0) tape off the inside and outside flange area of the window
> using 3M Fineline (.5 width)
>
> (1) then signstrip blue on the center areas to protect the inside
> and outside of the window . Be generous when painting it on as
> this makes it easy to pull off.
>
> (2) sand the inside/outside edges of the window in the area of the
> flange to roughen the glass for adhesion.
>
> (3) sand the flanges of the lid; CLEAN ALL SANDED EDGES WITH ACETONE
>
> (4) prepare a set of aluminum "fingers" . Strips of .080 1" by 3"
> ; with a slight bend in the center. one end gets a #30 hole and
> the other is adequately taped. each is numbered. See the picture.
>
> (5) Trim the window to fit the frame and temporarily hold in place
> with the NUMBERED "fingers". Clecoes should be place about .50"
> outside the window. Drill #30 only through the external layer; NOT
> THROUGH THE LID. RETAPE OFF THE EDGES 3M FINELINE TAPE .
>
> (6) prepare a mixture of epoxy with chopped fibers and cabosil.
> Consistency should be peanut butter. Potlife should plan to be
> 30-40 minutes. We refrigerated it to further slow the cure.
>
> (7) putty the lid flanges, wet the window flanges with a small
> amount of catalyzed epoxy and place window in frame; holding in
> place with "fingers" at the preplanned locations.
>
> (8) inside person should be wiping excess putty away with a 50-50
> mixture of mineral spirirts and acetone; outside person should be
> smoothing putty on outside flange. excess will be sanded off
> later. then PULL THE TAPES BEFORE IT CURES.
>
> (9) allow to cure 24 hours.
>
> (10) Inside lid , flange should be finished . If rough, tape glass
> and sand lightly.
>
> (11) outside the lid, RETAPE the edge at the flange line, then
> cover the flange with two 1" layers of glass (E-7782?). (Note this
> was the Glastar procedure.) *Remember to pull the tape before the
> layered glass sets up.* The windscreen on the RV10 requires a
> different layering of glass on the aluminum.
>
> (12) Retape the edge , then sand and fill external flange area for
> paint. The sanding can feather into the edge of the tape.
>
> (13) when painted , paint should cover the flange.
>
> (14) MUST BE DONE BEFORE THE MIXTURE CURES. If you accidentally
> get epoxy on the Plexiglas during the process, it can be safely
> removed using a clean cloth and the 50-50 mixture of mineral
> spirits and acetone. *Have it handy.*
>
> (15) 50-50 mixture is also good for removing any signstrip that
> does not come off when finally removing the protective covering
> before flight.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | L Aune <lcaune(at)cablelan.net> |
| Subject: | RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
We had a similar problem working on the Sikorsky S76 tailboom. It
had bondo in all the seams and always cracked the paint. Our
solution was to dig out all of the brittle bondo and run a bead of
Pro Seal aka PRC which is much more flexible and sticks like snot to
a blanket. The new paint job looked great for many tears. Pro Seal
is also a good base for paint, especially the good flexible types
like Endura or PPG.
Len Aune 40381
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Perry Casson <pcasson(at)sasktel.net> |
| Subject: | Silpruf for window adhesive |
I've no experience painting silpruf, it does come in about a dozen colors so
for the less fashion conscious such as myself I'll just pick a color that's
not too hideous (i.e. black or grey) and just paint up to the fillet.
Perry
Perry,
Have you had any luck painting the silpruf?
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
For those who have done the seats; what thickness of foam did you use for
the rear? Any pictures of completed rear seats? front seats? How many yards
of material were used to do front and rear. I am in the process of getting
estimates
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org> |
| Subject: | Plug Wire Grommet |
I got it now. For those who don't get their engines from Van's, you will
need to order them. They are called:
SLICK THREE WIRE 5MM WIRE SEAL
P/N M2376
$10.90 ea.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plug Wire Grommet |
Soooooo, who would it be that you'd recommend buying them
for $10.90, when you can buy them from Spruce for $4.00?
Once again:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/engbaffleseals.php
5MM WIRE SEAL 3-WIRE # 376 $4.00
Catalog page 264: .pdf:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/catalog/Cat06264.pdf
Tim
Jesse Saint wrote:
>
> I got it now. For those who don't get their engines from Van's, you will
> need to order them. They are called:
>
> SLICK THREE WIRE 5MM WIRE SEAL
> P/N M2376
> $10.90 ea.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse(at)itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org
> W: 352-465-4545
> C: 352-427-0285
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net> |
Vans sells the rear seat foam cushions. I just got mine and they look pretty good.
Zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=41246#41246
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
Heads up! There is a physical incompatibility between the B&C SD-20
auxiliary alternator (mounts on vacuum pump pad) and the oil filter
adapters that puts the filter in the 10 o'clock position. If your
electrical system is depending on the SD-20 you will be precluded from
using the angled oil filter adapter. After discussion with B&C I
investigated the possibility of moving the SD-20 to the hydraulic pump
pad but total length of the alternator + hydraulic pump adapter
precludes the SD-20 from being mounted there.
Also, if you go with one of the angled oil filter adapters (at least the
one from B&C) you need the 1.4" spacer to clear the engine mount cross
member.
Bob #40105
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility |
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
Bob, are you saying that B&C's own oil filter adaptor won't work on an
IO-540 with the SD-20?
TDT
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
(US SSA)
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:50 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
Heads up! There is a physical incompatibility between the B&C SD-20
auxiliary alternator (mounts on vacuum pump pad) and the oil filter
adapters that puts the filter in the 10 o'clock position. If your
electrical system is depending on the SD-20 you will be precluded from
using the angled oil filter adapter. After discussion with B&C I
investigated the possibility of moving the SD-20 to the hydraulic pump
pad but total length of the alternator + hydraulic pump adapter
precludes the SD-20 from being mounted there.
Also, if you go with one of the angled oil filter adapters (at least the
one from B&C) you need the 1.4" spacer to clear the engine mount cross
member.
Bob #40105
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
Tim,
That is correct! Specific problem is caused by the spacer. The bosses
on the alternator overlap into the space where the spacer wants to be.
Explanation from B&C (Tim) was "that's a combination that we didn't
anticipate". Apparently somebody else has also talked with them about
that problem within the last couple of weeks. His only suggestion was
to try it on the hydraulic pump pad. I looked into that but the total
length is an issue. I suppose you could get around that by modifying
the firewall but it's not worth it to me - I'll just go with the normal
oil filter adapter and the SD-20 on the vacuum pad.
Bob
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:00 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
Bob, are you saying that B&C's own oil filter adaptor won't work on an
IO-540 with the SD-20?
TDT
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
(US SSA)
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:50 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
Heads up! There is a physical incompatibility between the B&C SD-20
auxiliary alternator (mounts on vacuum pump pad) and the oil filter
adapters that puts the filter in the 10 o'clock position. If your
electrical system is depending on the SD-20 you will be precluded from
using the angled oil filter adapter. After discussion with B&C I
investigated the possibility of moving the SD-20 to the hydraulic pump
pad but total length of the alternator + hydraulic pump adapter
precludes the SD-20 from being mounted there.
Also, if you go with one of the angled oil filter adapters (at least the
one from B&C) you need the 1.4" spacer to clear the engine mount cross
member.
Bob #40105
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility |
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
Anyway to machine a little bit off the adaptor to make it work?
TDT
40025
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Condrey, Bob (US
SSA)
Sent: Thu 6/15/2006 1:15 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
Tim,
That is correct! Specific problem is caused by the spacer. The bosses
on the alternator overlap into the space where the spacer wants to be.
Explanation from B&C (Tim) was "that's a combination that we didn't
anticipate". Apparently somebody else has also talked with them about
that problem within the last couple of weeks. His only suggestion was
to try it on the hydraulic pump pad. I looked into that but the total
length is an issue. I suppose you could get around that by modifying
the firewall but it's not worth it to me - I'll just go with the normal
oil filter adapter and the SD-20 on the vacuum pad.
Bob
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:00 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
Bob, are you saying that B&C's own oil filter adaptor won't work on an
IO-540 with the SD-20?
TDT
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
(US SSA)
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:50 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
Heads up! There is a physical incompatibility between the B&C SD-20
auxiliary alternator (mounts on vacuum pump pad) and the oil filter
adapters that puts the filter in the 10 o'clock position. If your
electrical system is depending on the SD-20 you will be precluded from
using the angled oil filter adapter. After discussion with B&C I
investigated the possibility of moving the SD-20 to the hydraulic pump
pad but total length of the alternator + hydraulic pump adapter
precludes the SD-20 from being mounted there.
Also, if you go with one of the angled oil filter adapters (at least the
one from B&C) you need the 1.4" spacer to clear the engine mount cross
member.
Bob #40105
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
I don't think so - that spacer is really a collection of hollow chambers
with relatively thin walls. On the alternator, it's the bosses for the
screws that connect the front and rear sections together that cause the
issue.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 1:44 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
Anyway to machine a little bit off the adaptor to make it work?
TDT
40025
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Condrey, Bob (US
SSA)
Sent: Thu 6/15/2006 1:15 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
Tim,
That is correct! Specific problem is caused by the spacer. The bosses
on the alternator overlap into the space where the spacer wants to be.
Explanation from B&C (Tim) was "that's a combination that we didn't
anticipate". Apparently somebody else has also talked with them about
that problem within the last couple of weeks. His only suggestion was
to try it on the hydraulic pump pad. I looked into that but the total
length is an issue. I suppose you could get around that by modifying
the firewall but it's not worth it to me - I'll just go with the normal
oil filter adapter and the SD-20 on the vacuum pad.
Bob
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:00 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
Bob, are you saying that B&C's own oil filter adaptor won't work on an
IO-540 with the SD-20?
TDT
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
(US SSA)
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:50 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
Heads up! There is a physical incompatibility between the B&C SD-20
auxiliary alternator (mounts on vacuum pump pad) and the oil filter
adapters that puts the filter in the 10 o'clock position. If your
electrical system is depending on the SD-20 you will be precluded from
using the angled oil filter adapter. After discussion with B&C I
investigated the possibility of moving the SD-20 to the hydraulic pump
pad but total length of the alternator + hydraulic pump adapter
precludes the SD-20 from being mounted there.
Also, if you go with one of the angled oil filter adapters (at least the
one from B&C) you need the 1.4" spacer to clear the engine mount cross
member.
Bob #40105
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility |
| From: | "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com> |
Hmm. I'd have to go take a look, but any chance the B&C adaptor
#BC708-1 would work? It puts the filter in the 6:30 (down) position,
instead of 11:00 (up) position. Would the spacer still be required?
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
(US SSA)
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
I don't think so - that spacer is really a collection of hollow chambers
with relatively thin walls. On the alternator, it's the bosses for the
screws that connect the front and rear sections together that cause the
issue.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 1:44 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
Anyway to machine a little bit off the adaptor to make it work?
TDT
40025
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Condrey, Bob (US
SSA)
Sent: Thu 6/15/2006 1:15 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
Tim,
That is correct! Specific problem is caused by the spacer. The bosses
on the alternator overlap into the space where the spacer wants to be.
Explanation from B&C (Tim) was "that's a combination that we didn't
anticipate". Apparently somebody else has also talked with them about
that problem within the last couple of weeks. His only suggestion was
to try it on the hydraulic pump pad. I looked into that but the total
length is an issue. I suppose you could get around that by modifying
the firewall but it's not worth it to me - I'll just go with the normal
oil filter adapter and the SD-20 on the vacuum pad.
Bob
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:00 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
Bob, are you saying that B&C's own oil filter adaptor won't work on an
IO-540 with the SD-20?
TDT
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
(US SSA)
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:50 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
Heads up! There is a physical incompatibility between the B&C SD-20
auxiliary alternator (mounts on vacuum pump pad) and the oil filter
adapters that puts the filter in the 10 o'clock position. If your
electrical system is depending on the SD-20 you will be precluded from
using the angled oil filter adapter. After discussion with B&C I
investigated the possibility of moving the SD-20 to the hydraulic pump
pad but total length of the alternator + hydraulic pump adapter
precludes the SD-20 from being mounted there.
Also, if you go with one of the angled oil filter adapters (at least the
one from B&C) you need the 1.4" spacer to clear the engine mount cross
member.
Bob #40105
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
I would think it would work fine with no spacer. Reason the spacer is
required is because with the 11:00 (up) version the top of the filter is
above the diagonal cross member on the engine mount by about an inch or
so. The 1.4" spacer is the minimum that it takes to get the filter aft
far enough to clear the engine mount. I may give them a call and see if
they'd be willing to swap - interesting that the listed price is $55
different between them...
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 2:26 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
Hmm. I'd have to go take a look, but any chance the B&C adaptor
#BC708-1 would work? It puts the filter in the 6:30 (down) position,
instead of 11:00 (up) position. Would the spacer still be required?
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
(US SSA)
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
I don't think so - that spacer is really a collection of hollow chambers
with relatively thin walls. On the alternator, it's the bosses for the
screws that connect the front and rear sections together that cause the
issue.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 1:44 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
Anyway to machine a little bit off the adaptor to make it work?
TDT
40025
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Condrey, Bob (US
SSA)
Sent: Thu 6/15/2006 1:15 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
Tim,
That is correct! Specific problem is caused by the spacer. The bosses
on the alternator overlap into the space where the spacer wants to be.
Explanation from B&C (Tim) was "that's a combination that we didn't
anticipate". Apparently somebody else has also talked with them about
that problem within the last couple of weeks. His only suggestion was
to try it on the hydraulic pump pad. I looked into that but the total
length is an issue. I suppose you could get around that by modifying
the firewall but it's not worth it to me - I'll just go with the normal
oil filter adapter and the SD-20 on the vacuum pad.
Bob
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:00 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
Bob, are you saying that B&C's own oil filter adaptor won't work on an
IO-540 with the SD-20?
TDT
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
(US SSA)
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:50 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
Heads up! There is a physical incompatibility between the B&C SD-20
auxiliary alternator (mounts on vacuum pump pad) and the oil filter
adapters that puts the filter in the 10 o'clock position. If your
electrical system is depending on the SD-20 you will be precluded from
using the angled oil filter adapter. After discussion with B&C I
investigated the possibility of moving the SD-20 to the hydraulic pump
pad but total length of the alternator + hydraulic pump adapter
precludes the SD-20 from being mounted there.
Also, if you go with one of the angled oil filter adapters (at least the
one from B&C) you need the 1.4" spacer to clear the engine mount cross
member.
Bob #40105
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
I just got off the phone with Bill at B&C - they have a solution. I
will provide specifics when I confirm it will work.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 2:26 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
Hmm. I'd have to go take a look, but any chance the B&C adaptor
#BC708-1 would work? It puts the filter in the 6:30 (down) position,
instead of 11:00 (up) position. Would the spacer still be required?
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
(US SSA)
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
I don't think so - that spacer is really a collection of hollow chambers
with relatively thin walls. On the alternator, it's the bosses for the
screws that connect the front and rear sections together that cause the
issue.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 1:44 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
Anyway to machine a little bit off the adaptor to make it work?
TDT
40025
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Condrey, Bob (US
SSA)
Sent: Thu 6/15/2006 1:15 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
Tim,
That is correct! Specific problem is caused by the spacer. The bosses
on the alternator overlap into the space where the spacer wants to be.
Explanation from B&C (Tim) was "that's a combination that we didn't
anticipate". Apparently somebody else has also talked with them about
that problem within the last couple of weeks. His only suggestion was
to try it on the hydraulic pump pad. I looked into that but the total
length is an issue. I suppose you could get around that by modifying
the firewall but it's not worth it to me - I'll just go with the normal
oil filter adapter and the SD-20 on the vacuum pad.
Bob
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:00 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
Bob, are you saying that B&C's own oil filter adaptor won't work on an
IO-540 with the SD-20?
TDT
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
(US SSA)
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:50 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility
Heads up! There is a physical incompatibility between the B&C SD-20
auxiliary alternator (mounts on vacuum pump pad) and the oil filter
adapters that puts the filter in the 10 o'clock position. If your
electrical system is depending on the SD-20 you will be precluded from
using the angled oil filter adapter. After discussion with B&C I
investigated the possibility of moving the SD-20 to the hydraulic pump
pad but total length of the alternator + hydraulic pump adapter
precludes the SD-20 from being mounted there.
Also, if you go with one of the angled oil filter adapters (at least the
one from B&C) you need the 1.4" spacer to clear the engine mount cross
member.
Bob #40105
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gorejr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: finishing kit ommisions |
Chris,
If you would fax me a list I would appreciate it. I am also planning on using
James wheel pants. Thanks again! 770-412-0540
>
> From: "Chris Hukill" <cjhukill(at)cox.net>
> Date: 2006/06/09 Fri AM 11:58:26 EDT
> To:
> Subject: RV10-List: finishing kit ommisions
>
> I just sent Barb at Vans a list of the items to omit from my finishing kit. I
previously had her send me an inventory list of the kit, so I knew what was
there. As I want to leave my options open for a James cowl, I omitted the cowl
top, bottom, left/ right inlets, oil door and core, and all the spinner parts
(7 items). I also omitted the tires and tubes, as I like the leakguard tubes
and better tires. If anyone wants the actual part numbers of the cowl / spinner
parts to omit, I would be happy to fax the list, and save you and Vans the trouble.
>
> Chris Hukill
> completing Andair installation
> 702 591-7551 cel
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gorejr(at)bellsouth.net> |
I am building a quickbuild RV-10 and want the SafeAir1 extra fuel tanks as I
fly to Central America yearly. Will these easily adapt to the quickbuild wings
and tanks? I have only received the tail kit. Just trying to plan ahead.
Thanks Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Design was Digiflight IIVSVG |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: FW: RV10-List: Digiflight IIVSGV
>
> Another list member saw today's AP reply I did, and asked me
> to comment on now that I've been flying a while, what would
> I change on the panel. I wrote this reply, but decided to
> send it on to the list, because I know one choice that
> always bugs builders is what to get between the GNS-430,
> 480, and 530. I don't have all the answers, but I may
> as well send the reply out so the other interested parties
> can see how I feel today...
Tim has provided tons of valuable information and continues to do so. To
his credit he is willing to acknowledge when there might be alternative ways
to do something. Tim's great panel is an example of state of the art IFR
capable technology available today.
Instrument panels are probably the best example of builders expressing their
preferences and ideas.
Here is one more.
In my case I appreciated the capability of the Chelton, not just the screen
display and its conformal duplication of the outside world but also its
flight management features. So, being on a budget, I tried to come up with
a Chelton based panel as economically and simply as possible without
sacrificing anything necessary for safe redundant IFR & full GPS approach
capability.
The basic components are the Cheltons with optional Free Flight 1201 WAAS
receiver. This GPS is a remote mounted unit not a panel mount and "plays"
through the Chelton. The rest of the major components are an SL30,SL40,327,
AOA, VMC1000 engine monitor TruTrak Digiflight VGVS and back up ADI with
independent battery. The Free Flight receiver is certified for LNAV/VNAV
procedures and will be upgradable to the new LPV approach and provides full
RAIM functionality. With this combination I should be able to fly automatic
coupled GPS approaches or a manual ILS with both the ILS raw data and a GPS
derived HTS display of the ILS displayed on the Chelton simultaneously.
We did elect to have the panel built by Aerotronics rather than attempting
to do it here. I think compared to the amount of time I would have had to
spend on that project it was money well spent. Like engine shops that test
run engines after the build, the panel is bench tested for all functions and
inspected by an independent avionics inspector after completion. One of the
write ups was "finger print smudge on PFD display" The documentation for
installing the panel in the airframe is on a par with Van's kit instructions
and makes the process easy to complete. Aerotronics completed several other
optional systems like trim and infinity stick grip wiring all pre-tested.
If you elect to have a panel built by one of the specialized shops you will
spend a lot of time communicating with them during the course of the
project. I was completely satisfied with the process at Aerotronics.
We were able to position the Chelton displays and other radios with the PFD
centered in front of the pilot and without having to modify any of the
longitudinal ribs that connect the panel to the firewall. Two openings were
required in the subpanel for the Garmin radios.
The switches and circuit breakers are arranged in order of normal usage with
the exception of the fuel pump switch (above throttle) and autopilot master
(next to autopilot). The picture does not do justice to the quality of the
detail work on the front and back of the panel but it provides an idea of
the layout.
I traveled by car half way across the country to pick up the panel and
thought about trying to power the panel, put a GPS antenna on the roof and
"fly" it home but ended up just wrapping it in foam and putting it in the
truck.
Picture attached.
Dick Sipp
40065
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Panel Design was Digiflight IIVSVG |
Could you or others please post some pictures of the backs of your panels so
I can start getting a mental image of possibilities?
Rob
#392 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Sipp
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: FW: RV10-List: Panel Design was Digiflight IIVSVG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: FW: RV10-List: Digiflight IIVSGV
>
> Another list member saw today's AP reply I did, and asked me
> to comment on now that I've been flying a while, what would
> I change on the panel. I wrote this reply, but decided to
> send it on to the list, because I know one choice that
> always bugs builders is what to get between the GNS-430,
> 480, and 530. I don't have all the answers, but I may
> as well send the reply out so the other interested parties
> can see how I feel today...
Tim has provided tons of valuable information and continues to do so. To
his credit he is willing to acknowledge when there might be alternative ways
to do something. Tim's great panel is an example of state of the art IFR
capable technology available today.
Instrument panels are probably the best example of builders expressing their
preferences and ideas.
Here is one more.
In my case I appreciated the capability of the Chelton, not just the screen
display and its conformal duplication of the outside world but also its
flight management features. So, being on a budget, I tried to come up with
a Chelton based panel as economically and simply as possible without
sacrificing anything necessary for safe redundant IFR & full GPS approach
capability.
The basic components are the Cheltons with optional Free Flight 1201 WAAS
receiver. This GPS is a remote mounted unit not a panel mount and "plays"
through the Chelton. The rest of the major components are an SL30,SL40,327,
AOA, VMC1000 engine monitor TruTrak Digiflight VGVS and back up ADI with
independent battery. The Free Flight receiver is certified for LNAV/VNAV
procedures and will be upgradable to the new LPV approach and provides full
RAIM functionality. With this combination I should be able to fly automatic
coupled GPS approaches or a manual ILS with both the ILS raw data and a GPS
derived HTS display of the ILS displayed on the Chelton simultaneously.
We did elect to have the panel built by Aerotronics rather than attempting
to do it here. I think compared to the amount of time I would have had to
spend on that project it was money well spent. Like engine shops that test
run engines after the build, the panel is bench tested for all functions and
inspected by an independent avionics inspector after completion. One of the
write ups was "finger print smudge on PFD display" The documentation for
installing the panel in the airframe is on a par with Van's kit instructions
and makes the process easy to complete. Aerotronics completed several other
optional systems like trim and infinity stick grip wiring all pre-tested.
If you elect to have a panel built by one of the specialized shops you will
spend a lot of time communicating with them during the course of the
project. I was completely satisfied with the process at Aerotronics.
We were able to position the Chelton displays and other radios with the PFD
centered in front of the pilot and without having to modify any of the
longitudinal ribs that connect the panel to the firewall. Two openings were
required in the subpanel for the Garmin radios.
The switches and circuit breakers are arranged in order of normal usage with
the exception of the fuel pump switch (above throttle) and autopilot master
(next to autopilot). The picture does not do justice to the quality of the
detail work on the front and back of the panel but it provides an idea of
the layout.
I traveled by car half way across the country to pick up the panel and
thought about trying to power the panel, put a GPS antenna on the roof and
"fly" it home but ended up just wrapping it in foam and putting it in the
truck.
Picture attached.
Dick Sipp
40065
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Design was Digiflight IIVSVG |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net>
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 12:10 AM
Subject: RE: FW: RV10-List: Panel Design was Digiflight IIVSVG
>
>
> Could you or others please post some pictures of the backs of your panels
> so
> I can start getting a mental image of possibilities?
>
> Rob
>
> #392 Wings
Rob,
Tim's web site has lots of pictures that show how he finished the back side
of the panel.
I'll throw out a few more when I get all of the components that go back
there installed.
There is a lot of stuff that can or should go in that area, like electronic
ignition boxes, voltage regulators, altitude encoders attitude reference
sensor etc. Some of these components don't necessarily have to go there but
it is convenient.
I'm not sure if I am following the best sequence but I am trying to at least
plan for and preliminarily mount everything while the panel & sub structure
is on the airplane without the top skin. The intent is to then remove most
of the components, rivet the top skin to the ribs per the plans, permanently
mount the components on a bench and then late in the process (after cabin
top is fitted) permanently install that structure. The Aertronics (and
probably other shops) cable connector system makes this easier to do. The
instrument panel itself can still be removed if necessary as per Van's
plans.
Dick
40065
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim & Julie Wade" <jwadejr(at)hughes.net> |
I installed them in my slow build wings. Yes you can put them in the quick build
fairly easy. You will have to remove the fuel tanks from the wings to get the
fitting in the tanks and hookup the hose from the pump to the tank. Once the
tank is off, you install the pump and brackets for the tank in the wing nose
section next to the tank. I installed them to be able to go and come home without
buying fuel. I have my own tank and can buy gas a lot cheaper than at the
pump.
Jim
40383
Only paint left, wings & tail
Waiting on panel(frustration!!!!!!!)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=41390#41390
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Panel Design was Digiflight IIVSVG |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
Dick,
It appears that your panel is a solid piece to get more vertical height
instead of the stock version attached to the cross member. Can you
confirm? If so, what is the thickness? Does it simply have the bottom
edge bent back for stiffening?
Thanks.
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Sipp
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: FW: RV10-List: Panel Design was Digiflight IIVSVG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net>
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 12:10 AM
Subject: RE: FW: RV10-List: Panel Design was Digiflight IIVSVG
>
>
> Could you or others please post some pictures of the backs of your
panels
> so
> I can start getting a mental image of possibilities?
>
> Rob
>
> #392 Wings
Rob,
Tim's web site has lots of pictures that show how he finished the back
side
of the panel.
I'll throw out a few more when I get all of the components that go back
there installed.
There is a lot of stuff that can or should go in that area, like
electronic
ignition boxes, voltage regulators, altitude encoders attitude reference
sensor etc. Some of these components don't necessarily have to go there
but
it is convenient.
I'm not sure if I am following the best sequence but I am trying to at
least
plan for and preliminarily mount everything while the panel & sub
structure
is on the airplane without the top skin. The intent is to then remove
most
of the components, rivet the top skin to the ribs per the plans,
permanently
mount the components on a bench and then late in the process (after
cabin
top is fitted) permanently install that structure. The Aertronics (and
probably other shops) cable connector system makes this easier to do.
The
instrument panel itself can still be removed if necessary as per Van's
plans.
Dick
40065
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility |
| From: | "bcondrey" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
Tim,
Hopefully I'll see you there. Right now plans are to fly over with a friend in
an RV-6 assuming the weather is OK. We'll probably get there around 10:30 or
so due to a Young Eagles event in the AM.
Bob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=41486#41486
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Design was Digiflight IIVSVG |
You are correct Bob. The panel is an exact duplicate of the two piece
assemble from Vans but made out of a single piece of metal. The bottom has
a 3/4" flange bent forward. It is no taller, just one piece. Same
thickness as the original. The kit cross member attachment to the fuselage
skin is replaced by a small piece of 3/4 angle behind the panel. When the
radio racks are anchored at the panel and sub-panel the assemble becomes
very rigid.
Dick
40065
----- Original Message -----
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 10:23 AM
Subject: RE: FW: RV10-List: Panel Design was Digiflight IIVSVG
>
>
> Dick,
>
> It appears that your panel is a solid piece to get more vertical height
> instead of the stock version attached to the cross member. Can you
> confirm? If so, what is the thickness? Does it simply have the bottom
> edge bent back for stiffening?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bob #40105
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Sipp
> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 12:13 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: FW: RV10-List: Panel Design was Digiflight IIVSVG
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 12:10 AM
> Subject: RE: FW: RV10-List: Panel Design was Digiflight IIVSVG
>
>
>>
>>
>> Could you or others please post some pictures of the backs of your
> panels
>> so
>> I can start getting a mental image of possibilities?
>>
>> Rob
>>
>> #392 Wings
>
> Rob,
>
> Tim's web site has lots of pictures that show how he finished the back
> side
> of the panel.
>
> I'll throw out a few more when I get all of the components that go back
> there installed.
>
> There is a lot of stuff that can or should go in that area, like
> electronic
> ignition boxes, voltage regulators, altitude encoders attitude reference
>
> sensor etc. Some of these components don't necessarily have to go there
> but
> it is convenient.
>
> I'm not sure if I am following the best sequence but I am trying to at
> least
> plan for and preliminarily mount everything while the panel & sub
> structure
> is on the airplane without the top skin. The intent is to then remove
> most
> of the components, rivet the top skin to the ribs per the plans,
> permanently
> mount the components on a bench and then late in the process (after
> cabin
> top is fitted) permanently install that structure. The Aertronics (and
> probably other shops) cable connector system makes this easier to do.
> The
> instrument panel itself can still be removed if necessary as per Van's
> plans.
>
> Dick
> 40065
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | L Aune <lcaune(at)cablelan.net> |
| Subject: | RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
Rick
I have found Aviall to be a good supplier for PRC Proseal
Len
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
| Subject: | Composite Reference Publication |
Many have now ventured into the realm of plastic (Composite) aircraft
with their aluminum kit RV-10s. The canopy is larger and more complex
that any VAN's before it. And did I say the wing tips, doors, canopy
and engine cowls sometimes need modest rework. Here is a great
reference as a primer.
You can get Andy Marshall's latest edition book "Composite Basics"
either directly through him at (925) 945-6051 or at MARSHALL
CONSULT(at)aol.com Seventh Edition, AP.
$30.00 mail to 720 Appaloosa Drive, Walnut Creek, CA 94596-6506
or
http://www.buildersbooks.com/Compositebasics.htm?45,44
John - KUAO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu> |
| Subject: | Possible plans error - RV-10 FF4-2, Figure 4 (drain tube) |
Van's,
Step 6 of RV-10 plans page FF4-2 calls for the use of 24" piece of
PT-035x1/4 (thin wall tubing as used for FAB drain line) to be used as a
fuel overflow tube for the engine driven fuel pump. As the name
implies, PT-035x1/4 is 1/4" OD with .035 wall thickness, leaving an ID
of .250-.070 =.180".
RV-10 plans FF4-2, figure 4, calls out the use of an F63-PT3-25 insert
to go inside the overflow tube. The F63-PT3-25 has an OD of about
.137". The F63-PT3-25 is normally to be used in high pressure lines,
such as the PT-062x1/4 RV-10 brake lines, which have 1/4" OD, .062" wall
thickness, leaving an ID of .250-.124=.126". You can see this usage of
the F63-PT3-25 on page 38-6, figure 2.
If one tries to use the F63-PT3-25 with the specified PT-035x1/4 (thin
wall) tubing, the F63-PT3-25 simply slides down the inside of the tube
and falls out the other end. It's just too small.
Once could use the F63-PT3-25 if one replaced the specified thin wall
tubing with thick wall tubing such as left over brake line (PT-062x1/4).
I'm hesitant to do that without checking with Vans, however, because
the resulting ID is noticeably smaller than the specified tube.
What approach do you recommend?
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 830 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
Has anyone installed the rear windows while the lid was off the aircraft?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LIKE2LOOP(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Elevator tip rib skin question |
When assembling the elevator tip rib assembly, the tip skin (E-913)
appears to go under the main elevator skin (E-1001A). This leaves a leading edge
ridge of the 1001A over the 913. Is there any problem later if i put the 913
tip skin over the 1001A so the ridge is trailing? How did others deal with
this? Does it effect the fit of the fiberglass tip later?
Thanks for the help!
Steve
Stephen Blank RV-10 Builder / Cessna 170B flyer
766 SE River Lane
Port St. Lucie, FL 34983
772-475-5556 cell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rodger Todd <rj_todd(at)yahoo.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator tip rib skin question |
Steve,
I asked Vans that very question. Their reply was that
it made no difference.
Rodger
--- LIKE2LOOP(at)aol.com wrote:
> When assembling the elevator tip rib assembly,
> the tip skin (E-913)
> appears to go under the main elevator skin
> (E-1001A). This leaves a leading edge
> ridge of the 1001A over the 913. Is there any
> problem later if i put the 913
> tip skin over the 1001A so the ridge is trailing?
> How did others deal with
> this? Does it effect the fit of the fiberglass tip
> later?
>
> Thanks for the help!
>
> Steve
>
> Stephen Blank RV-10 Builder / Cessna
> 170B flyer
> 766 SE River Lane
> Port St. Lucie, FL 34983
>
> 772-475-5556 cell
>
___________________________________________________________
Copy addresses and emails from any email account to Yahoo! Mail - quick, easy and free. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/trueswitch2.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: [Fwd: Re: Possible plans error - RV-10 FF4-2, Figure 4 (drain |
tube)]
-------- Original Message --------
The thick wall tubing would be fine for this application. Thanks for
your input....I'll pass it on to engineering. van's
Forwarded by: "Support"
Forwarded to: ScottR
Send reply to: Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu
Copies to: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Van's,
Step 6 of RV-10 plans page FF4-2 calls for the use of 24" piece of
PT-035x1/4 (thin wall tubing as used for FAB drain line) to be used
as
a fuel overflow tube for the engine driven fuel pump. As the name
implies, PT-035x1/4 is 1/4" OD with .035 wall thickness, leaving an
ID
of .250-.070 =.180".
RV-10 plans FF4-2, figure 4, calls out the use of an F63-PT3-25
insert
to go inside the overflow tube. The F63-PT3-25 has an OD of about
.137". The F63-PT3-25 is normally to be used in high pressure lines,
such as the PT-062x1/4 RV-10 brake lines, which have 1/4" OD, .062"
wall thickness, leaving an ID of .250-.124=.126". You can see this
usage of the F63-PT3-25 on page 38-6, figure 2.
If one tries to use the F63-PT3-25 with the specified PT-035x1/4
(thin
wall) tubing, the F63-PT3-25 simply slides down the inside of the tube
and falls out the other end. It's just too small.
Once could use the F63-PT3-25 if one replaced the specified thin wall
tubing with thick wall tubing such as left over brake line
(PT-062x1/4).
I'm hesitant to do that without checking with Vans, however,
because
the resulting ID is noticeably smaller than the specified tube.
What approach do you recommend?
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 830 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 830 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Oil Filter Adapter Incompatibility |
Revisiting this recent thread, if anyone has a vertical adaptor installed,
how do these filter adaptors fit with regard to the cowl when mounted in the
high-up, straight-back-to-the-firewall position?
Rob Wright
#392 Wings
Looking forward to Bob C's info on B&C's solution for the 10 o'clock posn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
| Subject: | Tunnel Temp Service Letter |
Van's has recently posted a Service Letter addressing the tunnel temp
issue at
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/tunnel_temp.pdf
Bob #40105
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JSMcGrew(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Blue Mountain Autopilot install in an RV-10 |
I had a hard time finding much info on Blue Mountain autopilot servos in an
RV-10. So, now that I've got them mounted I figure it's worth posting it on
the forum. Hope this helps someone.
No words on how well this system works yet...
Jim McGrew
40134 - Attaching the wings
Attachment: http://www.matronics.com/enclosures/586d03f19e0e5cca120ca0828c3e7e9508e79220.JPG
Attachment: http://www.matronics.com/enclosures/42a0f17aca9925470335c2768e2007f6762b7cd2.JPG
Attachment: http://www.matronics.com/enclosures/8aa8e472fe431b31d4a8efeb722ca32c77f12f15.JPG
Attachment: http://www.matronics.com/enclosures/855dba7dbf421228c0d1c1386a746e31b1bb7c58.JPG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Blue Mountain Autopilot install in an RV-10 |
Jim, did bma have any info on the servo install or did you have to cook it
up yourself? I'm also going the blue mountain route, Bma sport g4,
w/autopilot, so i'm very interested in your findings.
Steve dinieri
40205
I had a hard time finding much info on Blue Mountain autopilot servos in an
RV-10. So, now that I've got them mounted I figure it's worth posting it on
the forum. Hope this helps someone.
No words on how well this system works yet...
Jim McGrew
40134 - Attaching the wings
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Deutsch" <deutscht(at)rhwhotels.com> |
Is it possible to remove the front floor covers without removing the
weld mounts for the landing gear on a QB fuse? Tim Olson I noticed your
photos show you removed for insulation. Can you share how? Anyone else
have ideas?
Tom Deutsch
Office 913 451-1222
Fax 913 451-6493
Cell 913 908-7752
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain Autopilot install in an RV-10 |
I didn't specifically ask BMA for any help, but I found nothing from their
install manual or on their website that helped with locating these. There are
a few RV-7s that used them and I found some pictures posted in various places
on the internet. I basically designed the mounting brackets myself. The
position of the elevator servo is the same place the trutrak autopilot would go
(that bracket is included in the RV-10 kit from Van's), I just had to make a
completely different bracket due to the servo size.
-Jim
In a message dated 6/20/2006 2:50:25 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
capsteve(at)adelphia.net writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Steven DiNieri"
Jim, did bma have any info on the servo install or did you have to cook it
up yourself? I'm also going the blue mountain route, Bma sport g4,
w/autopilot, so i'm very interested in your findings.
Steve dinieri
40205
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JSMcGrew(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Front Floor Pan |
On my QB fuse, I had to take the landing gear mounts out in order to get the
front floors in and out. I don't see any way around it. My mounts were only
temporarily bolted in with 4 bolts.
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 6/20/2006 7:05:08 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
deutscht(at)rhwhotels.com writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tom Deutsch"
Is it possible to remove the front floor covers without removing the
weld mounts for the landing gear on a QB fuse? Tim Olson I noticed your
photos show you removed for insulation. Can you share how? Anyone else
have ideas?
Tom Deutsch
Office 913 451-1222
Fax 913 451-6493
Cell 913 908-7752
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conti, Rick" <rick.conti(at)boeing.com> |
| Subject: | Blue Mountain Autopilot install in an RV-10 |
BMA servo mounting. Jeremy has a photo of the elevator servo mounting
on his web site. It is the right hand photo in the top row. The
aileron servo (unfortunately no photo) is mounted at the end of the
right wing. I made a stiffener for the outboard rib and mounted the
servo. As luck would have it, the aileron connecting rod sold by Van's
is a perfect length for attachment to the bellcrank. Some may be
concerned about that much weight mounted that far out on a cantilever.
I don't think (hope) it will be an issue, but the right wing was not
selected randomly. It will offset some of the pilot's weight (seated
left of center) when flying alone.
DIFFERENT SUBJECT: someone recommended the paint shop at Lantana FL. I
stopped there Friday looking for hangar space. I found out the paint
shop has been closed since the last hurricane and is still waiting for
approval to re-open.
http://jharris.net/Aviation/RV_10.htm
Thank You
Rick Conti
office: 703 - 414 - 6141
blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 9:34 AM
I didn't specifically ask BMA for any help, but I found nothing from
their
install manual or on their website that helped with locating these.
There are
a few RV-7s that used them and I found some pictures posted in various
places
on the internet. I basically designed the mounting brackets myself. The
position of the elevator servo is the same place the trutrak autopilot
would go
(that bracket is included in the RV-10 kit from Van's), I just had to
make a
completely different bracket due to the servo size.
-Jim
In a message dated 6/20/2006 2:50:25 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
capsteve(at)adelphia.net writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Steven DiNieri"
Jim, did bma have any info on the servo install or did you have to cook
it
up yourself? I'm also going the blue mountain route, Bma sport g4,
w/autopilot, so i'm very interested in your findings.
Steve dinieri
40205
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Testement" <jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com> |
| Subject: | Getting the doors to fit |
I have managed to get the right door to fit perfectly but I had to file the
bottom edge of the cabin top quite a bit. For the left and right bottom
corners to fit flush, the bottom middle of the door is inset about 1/16th -
1/8th". I plan to put a layer of fiberglass/filler on the door panel to get
it back flush with the cabin. This door falls right into place, flush around
all the other edges.
On the left door the problem is worse. When the middle bottom and front
corner of the door are flush or slightly inset, the rear bottom corner and
about 5" of the rear edge are proud by about 1/8-3/16" - too much to sand
down. The door seems to have warped some since the first fitting & gluing,
or from the window gluing. Also the door does not fall down into the closed
position - I have to push it in the final inch (the upper edges are flush).
Has anyone else had this problem? Has anyone tried to re-shape the door
bottom (like with a heat gun)? Any suggestions?
John Testement
HYPERLINK "mailto:jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com"jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com
40321
Richmond, VA
QB final door fitting and windscreen attach
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Kermanj" <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Getting the doors to fit |
My doors seem to fit fairly well except for the bottom. I most likely
would not try a heat gun and will live with the way things are. One
good thing is that the gap on the bottom is less offensive since it is
hidden viewing at a person's normal hight.
See if the door latch hardware is not forcing the door.
On 6/20/06, John Testement wrote:
>
> I have managed to get the right door to fit perfectly but I had to file the
> bottom edge of the cabin top quite a bit. For the left and right bottom
> corners to fit flush, the bottom middle of the door is inset about 1/16th -
> 1/8th". I plan to put a layer of fiberglass/filler on the door panel to get
> it back flush with the cabin. This door falls right into place, flush around
> all the other edges.
>
> On the left door the problem is worse. When the middle bottom and front
> corner of the door are flush or slightly inset, the rear bottom corner and
> about 5" of the rear edge are proud by about 1/8-3/16" - too much to sand
> down. The door seems to have warped some since the first fitting & gluing,
> or from the window gluing. Also the door does not fall down into the closed
> position - I have to push it in the final inch (the upper edges are flush).
>
> Has anyone else had this problem? Has anyone tried to re-shape the door
> bottom (like with a heat gun)? Any suggestions?
>
> John Testement
> HYPERLINK "mailto:jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com"jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com
> 40321
> Richmond, VA
> QB final door fitting and windscreen attach
>
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill DeRouchey <billderou(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Getting the doors to fit |
John-
At this point I would check the fit with the hinges. Remove the hinges and try
the door fit again. Perhaps you could pull the aft corner in by moving it up
and in a bit. The max distance the door mechanism will pull in the door is 7/16"
and the seal is guaranteed to move it out farther than it is now. If this helps
(or at least split the differrence) the holes in the upper door are easy
to plug with flox.
It would be worth stopping at this point and solving the problem. Once it is all
buttoned up the door will be a royal pain to close from the inside. You would
probably need to add a handle inside near the aft corner.
My streaching my imagination I still don't know how the doors could warp, unless
you tried to form the doors when the cabin was removed from the fuselage. Some
of my friends are trying to do this because their panel order has been delayed
and they are poking around trying to complete something.
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, s/n 40029
RV-10 checkout at Vans in one hour, fly in July.
I have managed to get the right door to fit perfectly but I had to file the
bottom edge of the cabin top quite a bit. For the left and right bottom
corners to fit flush, the bottom middle of the door is inset about 1/16th -
1/8th". I plan to put a layer of fiberglass/filler on the door panel to get
it back flush with the cabin. This door falls right into place, flush around
all the other edges.
On the left door the problem is worse. When the middle bottom and front
corner of the door are flush or slightly inset, the rear bottom corner and
about 5" of the rear edge are proud by about 1/8-3/16" - too much to sand
down. The door seems to have warped some since the first fitting & gluing,
or from the window gluing. Also the door does not fall down into the closed
position - I have to push it in the final inch (the upper edges are flush).
Has anyone else had this problem? Has anyone tried to re-shape the door
bottom (like with a heat gun)? Any suggestions?
John Testement
HYPERLINK "mailto:jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com"jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com
40321
Richmond, VA
QB final door fitting and windscreen attach
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | RV 10 Motor Mount |
Just curious if anyone has had any trouble lining up the Motor Mount holes with
the fuse firewall. After measuring the firewall holes and then the mount they
do not appear to be close on the top holes at all. Plus the mount brackets
do not sit FLUSH to the firewall and one is 1/8 inch from touching the firewall.
Hope this is not normal...........I can accept fiberglass being off some but
this seems too important to fudge.
Thanks,
Dean
40449
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Front Floor Pan |
No and its a pain ...took me 2 days as they must have put some of the bolts
in with a hammer!
Chris
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 10:54 PM
>
> Is it possible to remove the front floor covers without removing the
> weld mounts for the landing gear on a QB fuse? Tim Olson I noticed your
> photos show you removed for insulation. Can you share how? Anyone else
> have ideas?
>
>
> Tom Deutsch
>
>
> Office 913 451-1222
>
> Fax 913 451-6493
>
> Cell 913 908-7752
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Front Floor Pan |
It sure doesn't look like it to me. I have been held up because of this. I
had some temporary landing gear built with some pipe and some cheapie
wheelbarrow tires. They are shorter than the real thing so the fuse will sit
nice and low and I will still be able to roll it around the shop. I was
hoping to put them on for easy access to the forward fuselage while I
finished it up. After looking at it for a bit I realized I could not put in
the trunions until I found a willing bucking bar man to go inside the
forward fuse to finish up the transition from the sides to the bottom of the
airplane...the part you have to prebend. OK done. I have to say it fits
perfectly....really great engineering. Now I can snap down those floors, put
in the landing gear trunions and get the whole works off of the sawhorses
down to a reasonable working height. Cheers..
Evan Johnson
www.evansaviationproducts.com
(530)247-0375
(530)351-1776 cell
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 5:54 AM
>
> Is it possible to remove the front floor covers without removing the
> weld mounts for the landing gear on a QB fuse? Tim Olson I noticed your
> photos show you removed for insulation. Can you share how? Anyone else
> have ideas?
>
>
> Tom Deutsch
>
>
> Office 913 451-1222
>
> Fax 913 451-6493
>
> Cell 913 908-7752
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Kermanj" <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Motor Mount |
Mine was not perfect. It has been a while and I cannot compare my
mount with yours directly. It took a little wrestling to get it to
fit. And yes....it does not sit perfectly flush, it is an acceptable
fit.
On 6/19/06, ddddsp1(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> Just curious if anyone has had any trouble lining up the Motor Mount holes with
the fuse firewall. After measuring the firewall holes and then the mount they
do not appear to be close on the top holes at all. Plus the mount brackets
do not sit FLUSH to the firewall and one is 1/8 inch from touching the firewall.
Hope this is not normal...........I can accept fiberglass being off some
but this seems too important to fudge.
> Thanks,
> Dean
> 40449
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Motor Mount |
Something like this you want to contact Vans.Ours sat flush. Also was your
mount modified to make more clearance for the mount?
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Motor Mount |
That should of been modified for clearance for sump!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Hertner" <effectus(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Motor Mount |
Dean,
I have seen this as well in the engine mount. I think that Van's has
accommodated the small variances in the way they have you drill the holes
for the mount. If memory serves me correctly they have you locate a couple
of the holes and then simply drill through the firewall for the rest using
the mount as a drill guide.
Dave Hertner
#40164
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 10:21 PM
>
> Just curious if anyone has had any trouble lining up the Motor Mount holes
> with the fuse firewall. After measuring the firewall holes and then the
> mount they do not appear to be close on the top holes at all. Plus the
> mount brackets do not sit FLUSH to the firewall and one is 1/8 inch from
> touching the firewall. Hope this is not normal...........I can accept
> fiberglass being off some but this seems too important to fudge.
> Thanks,
> Dean
> 40449
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)adelphia.net> |
I see that Advanced Flight Systems now offers a EFIS/EMS combo (AF3500 & AF
3400) that is slightly larger than Dynon's D100/D120 combo. Anybody far
enough along to be considering either one of these units?
Albert Gardner
40-422
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> |
Here is my current proposed panel w/ AF3400 et al. We just finished
modifying the forward bulkhead to accept these stacks.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert Gardner
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 10:36 PM
I see that Advanced Flight Systems now offers a EFIS/EMS combo (AF3500 & AF
3400) that is slightly larger than Dynon's D100/D120 combo. Anybody far
enough along to be considering either one of these units?
Albert Gardner
40-422
Yuma, AZ
Attachment: http://www.matronics.com/enclosures/ce01a661428d9ddd9b51d96aafc2c2efcb8da1ad.JPG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net> |
Albert,
I bought the AF3400 at Sun-N-Fun and I'm still waiting for it. I've attache
d a photo of where we've placed it in my panel. I originally had their AF25
00 unit on order before Sun-N-Fun. I hope I'm following the correct protoco
l for posting a picture.
Wayne Edgerton #40336
Hopefully soon mounting the engine
Attachment: http://www.matronics.com/enclosures/c4506245b0e8aeb73192162e5fed55bd43e2ad8a.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Perry Casson <pcasson(at)sasktel.net> |
I went with the D100/D120 combo mostly based on already having a D10 in my
Glastar and being satisfied with it and the few complaints I did have were
addressed in the D100.
My original layout was not possible due to rib interference:
http://casson.2y.net/yappa-ng/index.php?album=%2FRV-10%2F&image 051222_082
751.JPG
So I after some sitting in the cockpit checking to be sure all buttons
remain accessible and visibility was still good I went the D100 on the
centerline of the pilot and the D120 on the centerline of the co-pilot and
with the screen swapping features between the d100/d120 the plane should be
nicely flyable from either seat.
http://casson.2y.net/yappa-ng/index.php?album=%2FRV-10%2F&image 060524__00
2.jpg
For a VFR aircraft like I'm building, I think along with a Garmin 396 and 2
axis autopilot should make for a nice enough panel without dropping the
extra $30K+ to go glass IFR.
Perry Casson
-----Original Message-----
I see that Advanced Flight Systems now offers a EFIS/EMS combo (AF3500 & AF
3400) that is slightly larger than Dynon's D100/D120 combo. Anybody far
enough along to be considering either one of these units?
Albert Gardner
40-422
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jim(at)CombsFive.Com> |
I am planning on the AFS-3500EE route.
I was planning on using the Dynon D100 EFIS and D120 engine monitor. After adding
up all the "optional" stuff that was required, the cost was equal to the
AFS system. The AFS appears to have more function too.
I would like to see what they are going to do for the CDI / HSI display.
Jim Combs
N312F
40192
Fuseleage / Finishing
===========================================================
I see that Advanced Flight Systems now offers a EFIS/EMS combo (AF3500 & AF
3400) that is slightly larger than Dynon's D100/D120 combo. Anybody far
enough along to be considering either one of these units?
Albert Gardner
40-422
Yuma, AZ
===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Freeflight question |
I believe it is the 1201 since the ARINC 429 output is not required.
Also it does not come with a TSO sticker.
Larry Rosen
#356
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> For those people who are currently taking advantage of Chelton's
> choice of AP or Freeflight GPS, which model of GPS is the
> one you're receiving...the 1201 or 1203? I'm assuming the 1201.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Kermanj" <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Change email address |
Dear friends and assocoates::
In the ultimate quest to control spam, I have once again
changed my email address..
Please update your address book accordingly
Rob Kermanj
robkermanj at gmail dot com
Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Perry Casson <pcasson(at)sasktel.net> |
Darn auto-line break messed with the urls in my 1st post. Hopefully these work:
Plan A:
http://casson.2y.net/yappa-ng/index.php?album=%2FRV-10%2F&image 051222_082751.JPG
As built:
http://casson.2y.net/yappa-ng/index.php?album=%2FRV-10%2F&image 060524__002.jpg
Perry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com> |
Thought you 10 guys might get a kick out of seeing the AFS-3500 in my RV-3
panel...
http://www.romeolima.com/RV3works/Panel/DSC_0938.jpg
This is a GREAT solution for this plane. I'll combine it with a TruTrak
DigiFlight IIVS slaved to a Garmin 296 and voila, everything I need.
Randy Lervold
www.rv-3.com
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 7:53 AM
>
> Darn auto-line break messed with the urls in my 1st post. Hopefully these
> work:
>
>
> Plan A:
> http://casson.2y.net/yappa-ng/index.php?album=%2FRV-10%2F&image 051222_082751.JPG
>
>
> As built:
> http://casson.2y.net/yappa-ng/index.php?album=%2FRV-10%2F&image 060524__002.jpg
>
>
> Perry
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> |
I ordered the 3500 efis/engine monitor for my aircraft as a backup to
the dual chelton setup. I saw the 3500 at sun-n-fun and was really
impressed. Funnily enough, in this era of everybody coming out with
their own efis, I was most impressed by the graphical weight and balance
page. It was intuitive, and very easy to use. Hopefully it'll make
loading a breeze. Also, I'm trying to get away from having a bunch of
little doodads in the panel that are necessary but annoying. I really
like the trim and flaps indicator built into the 3500. I've also looked
into having my own custom annunciator panel built so that all the flight
critical warnings show up in the same place. All alarms, low fuel (fuel
guardian), efis warnings, etc. I'm going for a super clean panel
look/feel. Also, I ordered the 3500 with the internal battery backup.
AFS says it should keep the unit lit for a couple hours if the
electrical system goes poo. With all the talk on other forums about
efis systems quitting due to electrical snafu, it seemed like cheap
insurance.
cj
#40410
fuse
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Lervold
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 8:38 AM
Thought you 10 guys might get a kick out of seeing the AFS-3500 in my
RV-3
panel...
http://www.romeolima.com/RV3works/Panel/DSC_0938.jpg
This is a GREAT solution for this plane. I'll combine it with a TruTrak
DigiFlight IIVS slaved to a Garmin 296 and voila, everything I need.
Randy Lervold
www.rv-3.com
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 7:53 AM
>
> Darn auto-line break messed with the urls in my 1st post. Hopefully
these
> work:
>
>
> Plan A:
>
http://casson.2y.net/yappa-ng/index.php?album=%2FRV-10%2F&image 051222
_082751.JPG
>
>
> As built:
>
http://casson.2y.net/yappa-ng/index.php?album=%2FRV-10%2F&image 060524
__002.jpg
>
>
> Perry
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Flap Construction Problem Solved! |
Ok Guys,
As you already know, I had rigging problems with my flaps (both of them). When
I installed them on the wings, they were warped and extended below the bottom
wing skin. Here's how I solved that problem with a brand new set of Flaps
that I just built....and they came out perfect!
I built these new flaps according to plans up to and including riveting the top
skin on. Then, I took the structure and pinned it on the wing at the 3 attach
points.
I then clecoed on the bottom flap skin and epoxied (or pro-seal if you wish)
the trailing edge on with a long straight edge (see Pic #1). By doing this, you
are assured 100% to be lined up with the aileron and everything in rig.
I then squeezed one rivet on each flap brace brace to keep the hinge alignment.
(see next picture).
After the 3M 2216 Epoxy sets up (one day), I pop-riveted the remaining bottom
rivets on the flap. I then removed the flap and cleaned up the epoxy from the
trailing edge holes (just as you would do with pro-seal).
I then riveted on the trailing edge rivets to the flap, but here's the best part.....I
squeezed them on. I don't know why I never tried this in the first
place, maybe because Vans tells you to do it one way. But, that's the neat thing
about building planes. There are many ways of doing it.
My brother made me up a wide rivet set (about the diameter of a quarter). I
then ground the angle into it that represents the trailing edge angle (see next
picture). Guys, I have to tell you... this is the best thing since sliced
bread! I only wish I had thought of it earlier when doing the other trailing
edges. And the neat part is that you don't beat up the skin with a rivet gun!
For those of you who haven't built your flaps yet, try my method. It works!!!
Rigging is perfect because you align it with the wing and aileron while the
epoxy/proseal is drying. And the best part, squeezing the rivets which eliminates
all the possible warping you may get from back riveting.
If you don't have a wide rivet set that you can grind down, let me know and I'll
see if my nephew Dave can make some sets up. It's important to have a wide
set because on your intial squeeze, the rivet meets the flat part of the set.
The final squeeze, the angled part of the set meets the rivet. I used a small
Tatco flat C-frame for this. You can probably use another type set but need
a flat on one side and the angle set on the other.
Zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=42306#42306
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc05138_126.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc05137_168.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc05136_172.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc05131_112.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc05145_170.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc05155_330.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Delamarter, Jon" <JDelamarter(at)lycoming.textron.com> |
| Subject: | Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
To All:
I am new to the Matronics email list and would like to introduce myself. My
name is Jon A. Delamarter. I hold an A&P license and a degree in aircraft
maintenance from Spartan School of Aeronautics (Tulsa, OK). I have been
married for more than my adult life (since 19) and have the world's most
wonderful wife and the 4 most beautiful and intelligent daughters that God
ever created. (My dog's pretty smart too.) I have about 50 hours of dual
in my logbook but have not soloed due to a disagreement between me and Uncle
Sam regarding my medical. As a certified airplane freak and airport bum, I
might just hold some sort of record for "Most Types Flown Before Solo." I
am particularly proud of the fact that I have T-6 aerobatic instruction on
the first page of my logbook! My professional aviation career began upon
graduation from Spartan on December 17, 1999. In the short 6 years since,
I have enjoyed an unbelievably rewarding life. With the blessings of loving
family support, an excellent education, and an absolute dedication to
excellence, I have experienced career satisfaction and growth that I could
not have imagined. If you love this business, it will be good to you! If
you don't love it, get out. If I have learned one thing thus far, it is
this: It's always about the people! I have no idea how many of you will
read this email, but I want you to know something. You aviation folks are
my family. I am proud and humbled to be part of you.
Having said all that, and at the risk of sounding crassly commercial, I'd
love to tell you folks about what I'm doing now. As of February 1st of this
year, it has been my privilege to serve as manager of Lycoming's brand-new
experimental hot-rod shop, Thunderbolt Engines. As you know, the absence of
Lycoming's direct participation in the past has not prevented the dominance
of our brand in the experimental market. We owe this not only to those
designers who build their aircraft around our engine, but also and perhaps
even more so, to the inherent reliability and simplicity of our engines.
The bottom line is that, although many of you are willing to experiment with
different aircraft designs and construction techniques, few have the desire
to step away from the known quantity of a Lycoming engine.
In recognition of this fact, Lycoming began a journey down a new road last
year with the introduction of the kit program. This program is responsible
for the influx of new experimental Lycoming based engines being sold by 6
shops across the country. With this move, Lycoming formally acknowledged
the credibility of the custom engine for the common man.
On April 5th of this year, at Sun-'n-Fun in Lakeland, FL, Lycoming made
public the next step in its journey by unveiling Thunderbolt Engines.
Thunderbolt Engines exists to provide homebuilders, race pilots, and
competition aerobatic pilots with a factory engineered, factory built,
factory supported, factory guaranteed custom engine. In the brief span of
time since the announcement, we have been pleased to learn that the first
reaction from most of our customers upon learning about Thunderbolt Engines
is shock followed immediately by excitement. The most common comments have
been something like, "I'm so glad you guys are finally doing this. I've
been waiting a long time and really didn't expect it to happen." After
recovering from their initial surprise, many builders have eagerly shared
their ideas and concepts for customizing our engines. There are a
significant number of builders who are willing to pay a fair price for a
factory experimental engine. This core group understands the importance of
supporting the customization process with proper and adequate engineering,
quality, assembly, and testing protocol. Thunderbolt Engines is housed in
the ATC (Advanced Technology Center) here at Lycoming. The ATC is still
under development and will eventually consist of four build cells, static
display areas, an aircraft integration laboratory, a customer/employee
training facility, and offices. Once completed, the ATC will be available
to you for tours and training. We are currently operational and are
delivering engines. The intent is to construct a state-of-the-art facility
Advancement. In plain English, we are creating, through the ATC, a
knowledge pool. We encourage you to challenge us with your requests and
ideas. We are discovering that many of our customers know a lot about our
product. Through our involvement in the kit program, we have developed
relationships with individuals and companies that have successfully and
responsibly modified our engines for many years. Through our customer
satisfaction surveys, we are gaining accurate, real-time Voice of the
Customer (VOC) data. We have gained experience and customer exposure
through our support of Reno racing and competition aerobatics. In addition,
Lycoming has made significant additions to its engineering staff. These
folks come from various backgrounds and bring fresh perspective and skills
to the table. By leveraging the data gathered from all these resources,
(customers, kit shops, customer surveys, racing/aerobatics, engineering,
etc.), we are building the knowledge pool. This data not only accelerates
our development technically, it also allows us to focus on developing those
products that best fulfill the needs of the customer.
The development of a Thunderbolt engine begins and ends with the Voice of
the Customer. Many builders call us requesting pricing for a specific
engine. While we certainly provide that information, we also attempt to
glean as much information as possible regarding specific aircraft
application and desired performance. From that data, we are frequently able
to provide the builder with several options, some of which they may not have
known existed. Through this process, we accomplish two things. First, we
match the builder with a custom solution that best accomplishes their stated
goal. Secondly, and equally important, we demonstrate our commitment to the
customer's best interests, rather than pushing a particular product. Our
customers have expressed a great deal of satisfaction with this process and
have been quick to differentiate us from the competition in this regard.
Thunderbolt Engines are currently segregated into three series: Signature,
Extreme, and Competition. A Thunderbolt Signature Series Engine is
differentiated from a certified, production engine in several ways. Like
all Thunderbolt Engines, Signature Series engines are constructed in
dedicated build cells by two man teams. In addition to being team built,
Signature engines are internally balanced and will be configured to the
customer's exact specifications. Items that may be customized range from
major configuration changes such as crankcase or crankshaft to fuel systems,
ignition systems, sumps, induction components, and turbocharging. Customers
will also choose from appearance options such as engine color(s), chrome,
etc. Billet aluminum components such as the prototype rocker covers
displayed at Sun-'n-Fun are in development but not yet online.
Representative of this series would be the engine built last year for Mike
Melville, the world's first civilian astronaut. This engine was an
O-360-A4M configured for updraft cooling and incorporating an experimental
Ellison fuel system. Mike operates this engine in a Long-EZ. Thunderbolt
Signature Series engines will receive a 2-year warranty. This is a real
warranty with real value.
Thunderbolt Extreme Series engines incorporate all the features of the
Signature Series and continue to the next level in terms of performance
upgrades. These items may consist of mildly increased compression ratio or
boost levels, or other yet to be defined upgrades. Thunderbolt Extreme
Series engines will receive a reduced warranty, due to the expected types of
operational dynamics.
Thunderbolt Competition Series engines incorporate all the features of the
Signature and Extreme Series and continue to the maximum level of
performance. These upgrades may consist of dramatically increased
compression ratio or boost levels, water injection, and/or other yet to be
defined upgrades. Representative of this group would be the engines built
for Jon Sharp's Nemesis NXT and Mike Jones' Glasair III. Also
representative of this group would be the engine we just shipped to Extra
for the new Mike Goulian airplane. This engine is an AEIO-580-L1B5 with
very special cylinders, pistons, and sparkplugs. Once fully broken in, we
are expecting 340-350 hp @ 2700 RPM and 11:1 compression. Walter Extra
reports unbelievable climb from an extremely smooth-running engine.
Competition Series engines will be limited to highly experienced pilots and
will require a signed agreement from the customer limiting his right to sell
or change ownership of the engine. Any such change would require Lycoming's
approval. The purpose of this constraint is to prevent the sale of a 340hp
AEIO-580 to a 40hr. Cessna driver! These engines are all out performance
machines, have no representation of reliability, and carry no warranty.
Okay, enough for the blurb. Let's get down to brass tacks. At not quite 32
years of age, I am smart enough to know that I'm still wet behind the ears!
I do not pretend to know everything there is to know about aircraft engines.
However, I absolutely believe in Lycoming Engines and stand ready to support
you in any way possible. I am here to serve as the conduit between you, the
builder, and the full support of Lycoming's able staff of engineers,
technicians, and support personnel. I want you to know that I share your
enthusiasm for our sport and that I hope for the opportunity to speak to
each of you. I will be at Arlington, Oshkosh, and Reno. Please drop by or
contact me with your questions and ideas. I will make every attempt to
answer your inquiry personally and in a timely fashion.
Sincerely,
Jon A. Delamarter
Thunderbolt Manager
Lycoming Engines
(570)327-7115
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> |
| Subject: | Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
Thanks for the intro Jon!
I'm happy to have a Lyc rep's ear around... but...Are you sure you want all of
us to be able to harass you nonstop? ;) I'll toss a question in real quick -
fadec possible for the IO-540? I haven't heard much from anyone about this, but
I'd really like to see one.
Glad to meet you!!
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 2:15 PM
To All:
I am new to the Matronics email list and would like to introduce myself. My
name is Jon A. Delamarter. I hold an A&P license and a degree in aircraft
maintenance from Spartan School of Aeronautics (Tulsa, OK). I have been
married for more than my adult life (since 19) and have the world's most
wonderful wife and the 4 most beautiful and intelligent daughters that God
ever created. (My dog's pretty smart too.) I have about 50 hours of dual
in my logbook but have not soloed due to a disagreement between me and Uncle
Sam regarding my medical. As a certified airplane freak and airport bum, I
might just hold some sort of record for "Most Types Flown Before Solo." I
am particularly proud of the fact that I have T-6 aerobatic instruction on
the first page of my logbook! My professional aviation career began upon
graduation from Spartan on December 17, 1999. In the short 6 years since,
I have enjoyed an unbelievably rewarding life. With the blessings of loving
family support, an excellent education, and an absolute dedication to
excellence, I have experienced career satisfaction and growth that I could
not have imagined. If you love this business, it will be good to you! If
you don't love it, get out. If I have learned one thing thus far, it is
this: It's always about the people! I have no idea how many of you will
read this email, but I want you to know something. You aviation folks are
my family. I am proud and humbled to be part of you.
Having said all that, and at the risk of sounding crassly commercial, I'd
love to tell you folks about what I'm doing now. As of February 1st of this
year, it has been my privilege to serve as manager of Lycoming's brand-new
experimental hot-rod shop, Thunderbolt Engines. As you know, the absence of
Lycoming's direct participation in the past has not prevented the dominance
of our brand in the experimental market. We owe this not only to those
designers who build their aircraft around our engine, but also and perhaps
even more so, to the inherent reliability and simplicity of our engines.
The bottom line is that, although many of you are willing to experiment with
different aircraft designs and construction techniques, few have the desire
to step away from the known quantity of a Lycoming engine.
In recognition of this fact, Lycoming began a journey down a new road last
year with the introduction of the kit program. This program is responsible
for the influx of new experimental Lycoming based engines being sold by 6
shops across the country. With this move, Lycoming formally acknowledged
the credibility of the custom engine for the common man.
On April 5th of this year, at Sun-'n-Fun in Lakeland, FL, Lycoming made
public the next step in its journey by unveiling Thunderbolt Engines.
Thunderbolt Engines exists to provide homebuilders, race pilots, and
competition aerobatic pilots with a factory engineered, factory built,
factory supported, factory guaranteed custom engine. In the brief span of
time since the announcement, we have been pleased to learn that the first
reaction from most of our customers upon learning about Thunderbolt Engines
is shock followed immediately by excitement. The most common comments have
been something like, "I'm so glad you guys are finally doing this. I've
been waiting a long time and really didn't expect it to happen." After
recovering from their initial surprise, many builders have eagerly shared
their ideas and concepts for customizing our engines. There are a
significant number of builders who are willing to pay a fair price for a
factory experimental engine. This core group understands the importance of
supporting the customization process with proper and adequate engineering,
quality, assembly, and testing protocol. Thunderbolt Engines is housed in
the ATC (Advanced Technology Center) here at Lycoming. The ATC is still
under development and will eventually consist of four build cells, static
display areas, an aircraft integration laboratory, a customer/employee
training facility, and offices. Once completed, the ATC will be available
to you for tours and training. We are currently operational and are
delivering engines. The intent is to construct a state-of-the-art facility
Advancement. In plain English, we are creating, through the ATC, a
knowledge pool. We encourage you to challenge us with your requests and
ideas. We are discovering that many of our customers know a lot about our
product. Through our involvement in the kit program, we have developed
relationships with individuals and companies that have successfully and
responsibly modified our engines for many years. Through our customer
satisfaction surveys, we are gaining accurate, real-time Voice of the
Customer (VOC) data. We have gained experience and customer exposure
through our support of Reno racing and competition aerobatics. In addition,
Lycoming has made significant additions to its engineering staff. These
folks come from various backgrounds and bring fresh perspective and skills
to the table. By leveraging the data gathered from all these resources,
(customers, kit shops, customer surveys, racing/aerobatics, engineering,
etc.), we are building the knowledge pool. This data not only accelerates
our development technically, it also allows us to focus on developing those
products that best fulfill the needs of the customer.
The development of a Thunderbolt engine begins and ends with the Voice of
the Customer. Many builders call us requesting pricing for a specific
engine. While we certainly provide that information, we also attempt to
glean as much information as possible regarding specific aircraft
application and desired performance. From that data, we are frequently able
to provide the builder with several options, some of which they may not have
known existed. Through this process, we accomplish two things. First, we
match the builder with a custom solution that best accomplishes their stated
goal. Secondly, and equally important, we demonstrate our commitment to the
customer's best interests, rather than pushing a particular product. Our
customers have expressed a great deal of satisfaction with this process and
have been quick to differentiate us from the competition in this regard.
Thunderbolt Engines are currently segregated into three series: Signature,
Extreme, and Competition. A Thunderbolt Signature Series Engine is
differentiated from a certified, production engine in several ways. Like
all Thunderbolt Engines, Signature Series engines are constructed in
dedicated build cells by two man teams. In addition to being team built,
Signature engines are internally balanced and will be configured to the
customer's exact specifications. Items that may be customized range from
major configuration changes such as crankcase or crankshaft to fuel systems,
ignition systems, sumps, induction components, and turbocharging. Customers
will also choose from appearance options such as engine color(s), chrome,
etc. Billet aluminum components such as the prototype rocker covers
displayed at Sun-'n-Fun are in development but not yet online.
Representative of this series would be the engine built last year for Mike
Melville, the world's first civilian astronaut. This engine was an
O-360-A4M configured for updraft cooling and incorporating an experimental
Ellison fuel system. Mike operates this engine in a Long-EZ. Thunderbolt
Signature Series engines will receive a 2-year warranty. This is a real
warranty with real value.
Thunderbolt Extreme Series engines incorporate all the features of the
Signature Series and continue to the next level in terms of performance
upgrades. These items may consist of mildly increased compression ratio or
boost levels, or other yet to be defined upgrades. Thunderbolt Extreme
Series engines will receive a reduced warranty, due to the expected types of
operational dynamics.
Thunderbolt Competition Series engines incorporate all the features of the
Signature and Extreme Series and continue to the maximum level of
performance. These upgrades may consist of dramatically increased
compression ratio or boost levels, water injection, and/or other yet to be
defined upgrades. Representative of this group would be the engines built
for Jon Sharp's Nemesis NXT and Mike Jones' Glasair III. Also
representative of this group would be the engine we just shipped to Extra
for the new Mike Goulian airplane. This engine is an AEIO-580-L1B5 with
very special cylinders, pistons, and sparkplugs. Once fully broken in, we
are expecting 340-350 hp @ 2700 RPM and 11:1 compression. Walter Extra
reports unbelievable climb from an extremely smooth-running engine.
Competition Series engines will be limited to highly experienced pilots and
will require a signed agreement from the customer limiting his right to sell
or change ownership of the engine. Any such change would require Lycoming's
approval. The purpose of this constraint is to prevent the sale of a 340hp
AEIO-580 to a 40hr. Cessna driver! These engines are all out performance
machines, have no representation of reliability, and carry no warranty.
Okay, enough for the blurb. Let's get down to brass tacks. At not quite 32
years of age, I am smart enough to know that I'm still wet behind the ears!
I do not pretend to know everything there is to know about aircraft engines.
However, I absolutely believe in Lycoming Engines and stand ready to support
you in any way possible. I am here to serve as the conduit between you, the
builder, and the full support of Lycoming's able staff of engineers,
technicians, and support personnel. I want you to know that I share your
enthusiasm for our sport and that I hope for the opportunity to speak to
each of you. I will be at Arlington, Oshkosh, and Reno. Please drop by or
contact me with your questions and ideas. I will make every attempt to
answer your inquiry personally and in a timely fashion.
Sincerely,
Jon A. Delamarter
Thunderbolt Manager
Lycoming Engines
(570)327-7115
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pascal" <pascalreid(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
Jon;
Certainly see your attention to detail! I quite appreciate the full
breakdown of Thunderbolt and your willingness to answer some questions. Two
that I have:
1)Website with all this info and with specifics to each engine?
2) Pricing for the engines, upgrades, modifications, etc...
Thanks!
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 2:14 PM
>
>
> To All:
>
> I am new to the Matronics email list and would like to introduce myself.
> My
> name is Jon A. Delamarter. I hold an A&P license and a degree in aircraft
> maintenance from Spartan School of Aeronautics (Tulsa, OK). I have been
> married for more than my adult life (since 19) and have the world's most
> wonderful wife and the 4 most beautiful and intelligent daughters that God
> ever created. (My dog's pretty smart too.) I have about 50 hours of dual
> in my logbook but have not soloed due to a disagreement between me and
> Uncle
> Sam regarding my medical. As a certified airplane freak and airport bum,
> I
> might just hold some sort of record for "Most Types Flown Before Solo." I
> am particularly proud of the fact that I have T-6 aerobatic instruction on
> the first page of my logbook! My professional aviation career began upon
> graduation from Spartan on December 17, 1999. In the short 6 years
> since,
> I have enjoyed an unbelievably rewarding life. With the blessings of
> loving
> family support, an excellent education, and an absolute dedication to
> excellence, I have experienced career satisfaction and growth that I could
> not have imagined. If you love this business, it will be good to you! If
> you don't love it, get out. If I have learned one thing thus far, it is
> this: It's always about the people! I have no idea how many of you will
> read this email, but I want you to know something. You aviation folks are
> my family. I am proud and humbled to be part of you.
>
> Having said all that, and at the risk of sounding crassly commercial, I'd
> love to tell you folks about what I'm doing now. As of February 1st of
> this
> year, it has been my privilege to serve as manager of Lycoming's brand-new
> experimental hot-rod shop, Thunderbolt Engines. As you know, the absence
> of
> Lycoming's direct participation in the past has not prevented the
> dominance
> of our brand in the experimental market. We owe this not only to those
> designers who build their aircraft around our engine, but also and perhaps
> even more so, to the inherent reliability and simplicity of our engines.
> The bottom line is that, although many of you are willing to experiment
> with
> different aircraft designs and construction techniques, few have the
> desire
> to step away from the known quantity of a Lycoming engine.
>
> In recognition of this fact, Lycoming began a journey down a new road last
> year with the introduction of the kit program. This program is
> responsible
> for the influx of new experimental Lycoming based engines being sold by 6
> shops across the country. With this move, Lycoming formally acknowledged
> the credibility of the custom engine for the common man.
>
> On April 5th of this year, at Sun-'n-Fun in Lakeland, FL, Lycoming made
> public the next step in its journey by unveiling Thunderbolt Engines.
> Thunderbolt Engines exists to provide homebuilders, race pilots, and
> competition aerobatic pilots with a factory engineered, factory built,
> factory supported, factory guaranteed custom engine. In the brief span of
> time since the announcement, we have been pleased to learn that the first
> reaction from most of our customers upon learning about Thunderbolt
> Engines
> is shock followed immediately by excitement. The most common comments
> have
> been something like, "I'm so glad you guys are finally doing this. I've
> been waiting a long time and really didn't expect it to happen." After
> recovering from their initial surprise, many builders have eagerly shared
> their ideas and concepts for customizing our engines. There are a
> significant number of builders who are willing to pay a fair price for a
> factory experimental engine. This core group understands the importance
> of
> supporting the customization process with proper and adequate engineering,
> quality, assembly, and testing protocol. Thunderbolt Engines is housed in
> the ATC (Advanced Technology Center) here at Lycoming. The ATC is still
> under development and will eventually consist of four build cells, static
> display areas, an aircraft integration laboratory, a customer/employee
> training facility, and offices. Once completed, the ATC will be available
> to you for tours and training. We are currently operational and are
> delivering engines. The intent is to construct a state-of-the-art
> facility
> Technological
> Advancement. In plain English, we are creating, through the ATC, a
> knowledge pool. We encourage you to challenge us with your requests and
> ideas. We are discovering that many of our customers know a lot about our
> product. Through our involvement in the kit program, we have developed
> relationships with individuals and companies that have successfully and
> responsibly modified our engines for many years. Through our customer
> satisfaction surveys, we are gaining accurate, real-time Voice of the
> Customer (VOC) data. We have gained experience and customer exposure
> through our support of Reno racing and competition aerobatics. In
> addition,
> Lycoming has made significant additions to its engineering staff. These
> folks come from various backgrounds and bring fresh perspective and skills
> to the table. By leveraging the data gathered from all these resources,
> (customers, kit shops, customer surveys, racing/aerobatics, engineering,
> etc.), we are building the knowledge pool. This data not only accelerates
> our development technically, it also allows us to focus on developing
> those
> products that best fulfill the needs of the customer.
>
> The development of a Thunderbolt engine begins and ends with the Voice of
> the Customer. Many builders call us requesting pricing for a specific
> engine. While we certainly provide that information, we also attempt to
> glean as much information as possible regarding specific aircraft
> application and desired performance. From that data, we are frequently
> able
> to provide the builder with several options, some of which they may not
> have
> known existed. Through this process, we accomplish two things. First, we
> match the builder with a custom solution that best accomplishes their
> stated
> goal. Secondly, and equally important, we demonstrate our commitment to
> the
> customer's best interests, rather than pushing a particular product. Our
> customers have expressed a great deal of satisfaction with this process
> and
> have been quick to differentiate us from the competition in this regard.
>
>
> Thunderbolt Engines are currently segregated into three series:
> Signature,
> Extreme, and Competition. A Thunderbolt Signature Series Engine is
> differentiated from a certified, production engine in several ways. Like
> all Thunderbolt Engines, Signature Series engines are constructed in
> dedicated build cells by two man teams. In addition to being team built,
> Signature engines are internally balanced and will be configured to the
> customer's exact specifications. Items that may be customized range from
> major configuration changes such as crankcase or crankshaft to fuel
> systems,
> ignition systems, sumps, induction components, and turbocharging.
> Customers
> will also choose from appearance options such as engine color(s), chrome,
> etc. Billet aluminum components such as the prototype rocker covers
> displayed at Sun-'n-Fun are in development but not yet online.
> Representative of this series would be the engine built last year for Mike
> Melville, the world's first civilian astronaut. This engine was an
> O-360-A4M configured for updraft cooling and incorporating an experimental
> Ellison fuel system. Mike operates this engine in a Long-EZ. Thunderbolt
> Signature Series engines will receive a 2-year warranty. This is a real
> warranty with real value.
>
> Thunderbolt Extreme Series engines incorporate all the features of the
> Signature Series and continue to the next level in terms of performance
> upgrades. These items may consist of mildly increased compression ratio
> or
> boost levels, or other yet to be defined upgrades. Thunderbolt Extreme
> Series engines will receive a reduced warranty, due to the expected types
> of
> operational dynamics.
>
> Thunderbolt Competition Series engines incorporate all the features of the
> Signature and Extreme Series and continue to the maximum level of
> performance. These upgrades may consist of dramatically increased
> compression ratio or boost levels, water injection, and/or other yet to be
> defined upgrades. Representative of this group would be the engines built
> for Jon Sharp's Nemesis NXT and Mike Jones' Glasair III. Also
> representative of this group would be the engine we just shipped to Extra
> for the new Mike Goulian airplane. This engine is an AEIO-580-L1B5 with
> very special cylinders, pistons, and sparkplugs. Once fully broken in, we
> are expecting 340-350 hp @ 2700 RPM and 11:1 compression. Walter Extra
> reports unbelievable climb from an extremely smooth-running engine.
> Competition Series engines will be limited to highly experienced pilots
> and
> will require a signed agreement from the customer limiting his right to
> sell
> or change ownership of the engine. Any such change would require
> Lycoming's
> approval. The purpose of this constraint is to prevent the sale of a
> 340hp
> AEIO-580 to a 40hr. Cessna driver! These engines are all out performance
> machines, have no representation of reliability, and carry no warranty.
>
> Okay, enough for the blurb. Let's get down to brass tacks. At not quite
> 32
> years of age, I am smart enough to know that I'm still wet behind the
> ears!
> I do not pretend to know everything there is to know about aircraft
> engines.
> However, I absolutely believe in Lycoming Engines and stand ready to
> support
> you in any way possible. I am here to serve as the conduit between you,
> the
> builder, and the full support of Lycoming's able staff of engineers,
> technicians, and support personnel. I want you to know that I share your
> enthusiasm for our sport and that I hope for the opportunity to speak to
> each of you. I will be at Arlington, Oshkosh, and Reno. Please drop by
> or
> contact me with your questions and ideas. I will make every attempt to
> answer your inquiry personally and in a timely fashion.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Jon A. Delamarter
> Thunderbolt Manager
> Lycoming Engines
> (570)327-7115
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed <ed(at)muellerartcover.com> |
Got my QB fuse and QB wings delivered. Trying to do the inventory and
wondering how others stored the parts for the future. Like when I need
the F-10105 how do I remember what it looks like and where did I put it.
I have some dedicated shelving and was thinking of organizing by
function, but there are a lot of functions. Any ideas?
Ed Mueller
#40525
ed at muellerartcover.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
Ed sort the bags out by numbers as you will use them all the time so have
them in the same room. The fuse box (small ) you will be into as well. The
rest is just common sense that suits your location.
Kind regards Chris
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 9:13 AM
>
>
> Got my QB fuse and QB wings delivered. Trying to do the inventory and
> wondering how others stored the parts for the future. Like when I need the
> F-10105 how do I remember what it looks like and where did I put it. I
> have some dedicated shelving and was thinking of organizing by function,
> but there are a lot of functions. Any ideas?
>
> Ed Mueller
> #40525
> ed at muellerartcover.com
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
I also mark the bags to describe the contents. All the small parts get
stored in boxes and the bigger ones on shelves.
Chris , Susie Darcy wrote:
>
>
> Ed sort the bags out by numbers as you will use them all the time so
> have them in the same room. The fuse box (small ) you will be into as
> well. The rest is just common sense that suits your location.
>
> Kind regards Chris
> ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 9:13 AM
>
>
>>
>>
>> Got my QB fuse and QB wings delivered. Trying to do the inventory
>> and wondering how others stored the parts for the future. Like when I
>> need the F-10105 how do I remember what it looks like and where did I
>> put it. I have some dedicated shelving and was thinking of organizing
>> by function, but there are a lot of functions. Any ideas?
>>
>> Ed Mueller
>> #40525
>> ed at muellerartcover.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> http://wiki.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bruce snyder" <SNYDER888(at)peoplepc.com> |
Tom,
I don't know about your QB fuselage but mine had the landing gear bracket
fully bolted in with no reason to pull it out (yes the two front outboard
nutplates were already installed). I did drill out enough of the rivets in
the front floor covers to pull it up by the corner and slide insulation
underneath. The two outboard most row of rivets (the few that were
installed) didn't need to be removed and I got insulation in under all the
front floor.
Bruce Snyder
QB fuselage #353
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Deutsch
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 8:54 AM
Is it possible to remove the front floor covers without removing the
weld mounts for the landing gear on a QB fuse? Tim Olson I noticed your
photos show you removed for insulation. Can you share how? Anyone else
have ideas?
Tom Deutsch
Office 913 451-1222
Fax 913 451-6493
Cell 913 908-7752
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Front Floor Pan |
Bruce I would take the floor pans out as I found a lot of shavings and a
cleko in there....also you need to seal the firewall and you get a better
seal from the back.
Just a thought
Chris
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 12:46 PM
>
> Tom,
>
> I don't know about your QB fuselage but mine had the landing gear bracket
> fully bolted in with no reason to pull it out (yes the two front outboard
> nutplates were already installed). I did drill out enough of the rivets
> in
> the front floor covers to pull it up by the corner and slide insulation
> underneath. The two outboard most row of rivets (the few that were
> installed) didn't need to be removed and I got insulation in under all the
> front floor.
>
> Bruce Snyder
> QB fuselage #353
>
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Deutsch
> Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 8:54 AM
>
>
> Is it possible to remove the front floor covers without removing the
> weld mounts for the landing gear on a QB fuse? Tim Olson I noticed your
> photos show you removed for insulation. Can you share how? Anyone else
> have ideas?
>
>
> Tom Deutsch
>
>
> Office 913 451-1222
>
> Fax 913 451-6493
>
> Cell 913 908-7752
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net> |
Albert,
I'm planning the 3500; awaiting some more documentation on the website (next
three weeks I'm told). If you go with the full system you also need to plan
to stray from Van's recommended fuel routing in the tunnel. Call 'em up and
ask for Rob's insight on this until they get the info on the website.
Rob Wright
#392 Wings
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert Gardner
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:36 AM
I see that Advanced Flight Systems now offers a EFIS/EMS combo (AF3500 & AF
3400) that is slightly larger than Dynon's D100/D120 combo. Anybody far
enough along to be considering either one of these units?
Albert Gardner
40-422
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
OK...since when is wet behind the ears a disqualifying medical condition??
lol....somebody mentioned James McClow....
Welcome and can we expect P-47 Thunderbolt technology or the A-1O Thunderbolt II
technology?
Lycoming, it ain't your grandfathers tractor engine anymore, we got a rep!!
FWIW, I am using a IO-540....nice to see your company recognized the experimental
market as a target of opportunity. Numbers from the much better building clone
guys must have found their way the the Textron number crunchers, shoot we
be losing money!!
Soap box returned to the closet..
Rick S.
40185
Finishing/fuse/wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank" <fscorpio(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Quietride Sound Insulation & Firewall Insulation |
Hi Frank-
Funny you should ask. Just a few months ago we did a kit for Tom
(Stockton
Flight Center). He is building a RV-7 and I have a customer in
Bakersfield
who is bringing us the body of his RV-10 in July.
The materials we use are aircraft certified and will make a hugh
difference
in the cabin noise and temperatures. We are in the process of building
an
ABS molded firewall for the RV-7 to stop the noise and heat. The
firewall
will fit over the setback "hump" in the firewall. We are also looking
to
build a rear Bulkhead cover with the word "Experimental RV-7" in raised
letters.
The material we use is approximately 3/4 inches thick and will have a
thermal value of R-36.3. These material will take up to 1500 degrees of
heat. The kits are pre-cut to fit between the ribs of the body and each
space between the ribs will have a small piece of Dynamat to stop body
skin
vibration. Typically in our auto applications we get a 50 percent
reduction
in noise and we would expect to see the same result in an aviation
setting.
The cabin temperatures should also be greatly stabilized.
We would to do a number of these kits before we launch the AERO side of
the
business.
I have attached photos of the RV-7 project.
Tim
On 6/21/06 10:12 PM, "FRANK PACHECO" wrote:
> Name: FRANK PACHECO
> Phone: 209-403-2674
> Fax:
> Email: fscorpio(at)sbcglobal.net
>
> I read about your product today in the Record. I and numerous other
members
> of the Experimental Aviation Association build aircraft from kits
(some metal
> some fiberglass or composite).
>
> I was curious as to whether your product is adaptable to aircraft
cabin
> insulation, it must be light in weight and provide sound proofing.
> Additionally there is also need for a firewall (between the engine &
cabin)
> for sound proofing material that is also fire resistant.
>
> Examples of kit aircraft that would use the product are seen at:
>
> http://www.vansaircraft.com
>
> I am building an RV-10 aircraft from Vans Aircraft.
>
> I would like to explore the feasibility of using your product within
the cabin
> area of the aircraft.
>
> Do you have specification for our various products such as: weight per
square
> foot; sound proofing ability in Decibels of reduction; and amount of
fire
> protection (resistance to heat in degrees F or Celsius) that
information would
> be useful.
>
> Let me know if you are interested in exploring this potential new
product line
> of providing cabin sound proofing and firewall protection for
experimental
> aircraft builders.
>
>
>
>
Thank you,
Timothy Cox
President
6507 Pacific Avenue, Ste. 334 Stockton, CA 95207
209-942-4777?209-942-4476 Fax?www.quietride.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank" <fscorpio(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: FeedBack QUIET RIDE SOLUTIONS |
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 10:48 AM
Hi Frank-
Funny you should ask. Just a few months ago we did a kit for Tom (Stockton
Flight Center). He is building a RV-7 and I have a customer in Bakersfield
who is bringing us the body of his RV-10 in July.
The materials we use are aircraft certified and will make a hugh difference
in the cabin noise and temperatures. We are in the process of building an
ABS molded firewall for the RV-7 to stop the noise and heat. The firewall
will fit over the setback "hump" in the firewall. We are also looking to
build a rear Bulkhead cover with the word "Experimental RV-7" in raised
letters.
The material we use is approximately 3/4 inches thick and will have a
thermal value of R-36.3. These material will take up to 1500 degrees of
heat. The kits are pre-cut to fit between the ribs of the body and each
space between the ribs will have a small piece of Dynamat to stop body skin
vibration. Typically in our auto applications we get a 50 percent reduction
in noise and we would expect to see the same result in an aviation setting.
The cabin temperatures should also be greatly stabilized.
We would to do a number of these kits before we launch the AERO side of the
business.
I have attached photos of the RV-7 project.
Tim
On 6/21/06 10:12 PM, "FRANK PACHECO" wrote:
> Name: FRANK PACHECO
> Phone: 209-403-2674
> Fax:
> Email: fscorpio(at)sbcglobal.net
>
> I read about your product today in the Record. I and numerous other
> members
> of the Experimental Aviation Association build aircraft from kits (some
> metal
> some fiberglass or composite).
>
> I was curious as to whether your product is adaptable to aircraft cabin
> insulation, it must be light in weight and provide sound proofing.
> Additionally there is also need for a firewall (between the engine &
> cabin)
> for sound proofing material that is also fire resistant.
>
> Examples of kit aircraft that would use the product are seen at:
>
> http://www.vansaircraft.com
>
> I am building an RV-10 aircraft from Vans Aircraft.
>
> I would like to explore the feasibility of using your product within the
> cabin
> area of the aircraft.
>
> Do you have specification for our various products such as: weight per
> square
> foot; sound proofing ability in Decibels of reduction; and amount of fire
> protection (resistance to heat in degrees F or Celsius) that information
> would
> be useful.
>
> Let me know if you are interested in exploring this potential new product
> line
> of providing cabin sound proofing and firewall protection for experimental
> aircraft builders.
>
>
Thank you,
Timothy Cox
President
6507 Pacific Avenue, Ste. 334 Stockton, CA 95207
209-942-4777?209-942-4476 Fax?www.quietride.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Walter" <pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: FeedBack QUIET RIDE SOLUTIONS |
Hi Tim,
Have you conducted tests or had any experience of corrosion of the aluminium
due to sweating or captured capillary moisture between your product and the
skin ?
Paul Walter
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 3:18 PM
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 10:48 AM
>
>
> Hi Frank-
>
> Funny you should ask. Just a few months ago we did a kit for Tom
> (Stockton
> Flight Center). He is building a RV-7 and I have a customer in
> Bakersfield
> who is bringing us the body of his RV-10 in July.
>
> The materials we use are aircraft certified and will make a hugh
> difference
> in the cabin noise and temperatures. We are in the process of building an
> ABS molded firewall for the RV-7 to stop the noise and heat. The firewall
> will fit over the setback "hump" in the firewall. We are also looking to
> build a rear Bulkhead cover with the word "Experimental RV-7" in raised
> letters.
>
> The material we use is approximately 3/4 inches thick and will have a
> thermal value of R-36.3. These material will take up to 1500 degrees of
> heat. The kits are pre-cut to fit between the ribs of the body and each
> space between the ribs will have a small piece of Dynamat to stop body
> skin
> vibration. Typically in our auto applications we get a 50 percent
> reduction
> in noise and we would expect to see the same result in an aviation
> setting.
> The cabin temperatures should also be greatly stabilized.
>
> We would to do a number of these kits before we launch the AERO side of
> the
> business.
>
> I have attached photos of the RV-7 project.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On 6/21/06 10:12 PM, "FRANK PACHECO" wrote:
>
>> Name: FRANK PACHECO
>> Phone: 209-403-2674
>> Fax:
>> Email: fscorpio(at)sbcglobal.net
>>
>> I read about your product today in the Record. I and numerous other
>> members
>> of the Experimental Aviation Association build aircraft from kits (some
>> metal
>> some fiberglass or composite).
>>
>> I was curious as to whether your product is adaptable to aircraft cabin
>> insulation, it must be light in weight and provide sound proofing.
>> Additionally there is also need for a firewall (between the engine &
>> cabin)
>> for sound proofing material that is also fire resistant.
>>
>> Examples of kit aircraft that would use the product are seen at:
>>
>> http://www.vansaircraft.com
>>
>> I am building an RV-10 aircraft from Vans Aircraft.
>>
>> I would like to explore the feasibility of using your product within the
>> cabin
>> area of the aircraft.
>>
>> Do you have specification for our various products such as: weight per
>> square
>> foot; sound proofing ability in Decibels of reduction; and amount of fire
>> protection (resistance to heat in degrees F or Celsius) that information
>> would
>> be useful.
>>
>> Let me know if you are interested in exploring this potential new product
>> line
>> of providing cabin sound proofing and firewall protection for
>> experimental
>> aircraft builders.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Timothy Cox
> President
>
>
> 6507 Pacific Avenue, Ste. 334 Stockton, CA 95207
> 209-942-4777?209-942-4476 Fax?www.quietride.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)adelphia.net> |
Oh no! I have the tunnel all plumbed except for the feed lines from the
wings to the selector valve. Wouldn't you know it-Murphy's Law. I'll call
tomorrow.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
-----Original Message-----
Albert,
I'm planning the 3500; awaiting some more documentation on the website (next
three weeks I'm told). If you go with the full system you also need to plan
to stray from Van's recommended fuel routing in the tunnel. Call 'em up and
ask for Rob's insight on this until they get the info on the website.
Rob Wright
#392 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Delamarter, Jon" <JDelamarter(at)lycoming.textron.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
Ok guys, I knew I'd take my licks from some of you. The fact remains that
I'm one of you and here to help you if I can, regardless of whether or not
you ever buy a Lycoming. To the guy who busted my chops for not declaring
myself to be a pilot, please note the first paragraph of my initial post.
The only reason I'm not a pilot is because I filled out the application for
my medical honestly. Uncle Sam didn't like it when I checked the box for
"Frequent Headaches." I'm not done, though. I am going to make another
attempt for my medical in a few months. To those of you who posted words of
encouragement, thank you.
Jon A. Delamarter
Thunderbolt Manager
Lycoming Engines
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Kermanj" <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> |
Guss at Van's gave me a neat and easy way to repair a fuel leak in my tank.
My QB tank leaked at one of the rivets a few inches from the fuel
filler cap. A few drops of Locktite 290 on top of the rivet, along
with a VERY SLIGHT vacuum from the overflow tube has cured the leak
(the fuel tank can collaps with very litle vacuum). Loctite 290 cures
in an environment without oxygen so don't expect the drop on top of
the rivet, exposed to air, to will be cured the next day.
I thought this info might help if you have a similar leak.
Read the Loctite 290 Data Sheet before you use the stuff.
--
Rob Kermanj
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net> |
I ordered the 3500 system, Rob sold me the tranducer right (very impressed by the
workmanship but not a Floscan) away so I could complete the plumbing and wiring.
For those planning on this system, it does NOT mount in the floscan hole
configuration. The mountng holes are on the right side of the unit inline with
the datum, not 45 degrees from each other. So, if you used Van's mount for the
floscan you will need to drill it off the floor and modify it for the ACS transducer.
No big deal though took about an hour and a half to remove, modify
and reattach.
Rick S.
40185
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)adelphia.net> |
Can the 3500 use the Floscan transducer or do you need a different one?
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
-----Original Message-----
I ordered the 3500 system, Rob sold me the transducer right (very impressed
by the workmanship but not a Floscan) away so I could complete the plumbing
and wiring. For those planning on this system, it does NOT mount in the
floscan hole configuration. The mounting holes are on the right side of the
unit inline with the datum, not 45 degrees from each other. So, if you used
Van's mount for the floscan you will need to drill it off the floor and
modify it for the ACS transducer. No big deal though took about an hour and
a half to remove, modify and reattach.
Rick S.
40185
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill DeRouchey <billderou(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Motor Mount |
I am a reasonable TIG welder and am always fighting warpage. Even with jigs the
weldment will have internal stress that pulls something some way or another.
My mount was slightly pretzelled but pulled down nicely when under load from
the bolts. Once the mount is under stress from the firewall bolts and the engine
weight do not remove any of the firewall bolts as the mount will move. If you
are going to use the firewall bolts to terminate an engine ground make sure
the ground wire is already attached to the firewall before you hang the engine.
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB
Fly in July
Rob Kermanj wrote:
Mine was not perfect. It has been a while and I cannot compare my
mount with yours directly. It took a little wrestling to get it to
fit. And yes....it does not sit perfectly flush, it is an acceptable
June 02, 2006 - June 23, 2006
RV10-Archive.digest.vol-bf