RV10-Archive.digest.vol-bi
June 27, 2006 - July 17, 2006
RV10-Archive.digest.vol-bi
June 27, 2006 - July 17, 2006
I used J B Weld on my rudder and it didn't hold despite roughing the
surface with steel wool then cleaning with acetone before clecoing
together.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 4:05 PM
In a message dated 6/26/2006 11:43:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mdoyle2(at)gmail.com writes:
I used an inexpensive caulking gun.
I did the same and my caulk gun fit in the new self mixing cartridge
with no adjustments needed. There was nothing on the back end to clean
up. I found a HUGE amount of waste doing the rudder this way, as the
entire tube gets mixed and then you only use a little.
Is there a suitable substitute, like JB Weld for the elevators and
other parts that use proseal??? I dont want to use anything that would
cause corrosion for the trailing edge pieces.
For the fuel tank i will stick with the Proseal, and would expect to
finish a tube or two.
Steve
Stephen Blank RV-10 Builder #40499 / Cessna 170B flyer
766 SE River Lane
Port St. Lucie, FL 34983
772-475-5556 cell - evenings and weekends
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "brian bollaert" <bbollaert(at)comcast.net>
Date: Jun 27, 2006
Subject: SIKAFLEX WINDSCREEN
For those thinking of using an alternative for the windscreen , someone
mentioned Sikaflex -252 , i called the company tech line and they only
reccomend there -295 UV product
http://www.sikaindustry.com/ind/ipd-marine/ipd-ma-products.htm
along with the 226 cleaner
http://www.sikaindustry.com/ipd-marine-surface-primerchart & 209 primer
, this is what i think that i will use (very important to use the
correct one and prepare the surfaces ).
Brian Bollaert
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Garey Wittich <gareywittich2000(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 27, 2006
Subject: A GUIDE TO AIRCRAFT PAINTING & CORROSION CONTROL
THIS IS NOT "SPAM", but comes from 600+ hours of
research I did while building my RV-8A.
------------------------------------------------------------
SAVE YOURSELF hundreds of hours of research time that
can be better spent "building your project", by using
the comprehensive
"Guide to Painting & Corrosion Control of Aluminum and
Composite Aircraft" (In 3rd printing)
Contains 66 pages of the latest, practical information
- summarized and gathered from MIL Standards, Paint
Shops, Builders like you (what worked or didn't),
Airframe Mfgs, etc. Covers products from - PP&G,
Dupont, Sherwin W'ms, Sterling, Poly Fiber, Deft,
Randolph Paints, PRC De Soto, US Paints, Aircraft
Finishing Systems, 3M, etc.
Some of the Topics covered in the 30 Sections are:
* Aircraft Paints vs Auto Paints
* Corrosion Control
* Primers for Fiberglass & Steel
* Prep Methods for Painting - Fiberglass,
Aluminum and Steel
* Epoxy Primers for Aluminum - MIL & Commercial,
Solvent & Water
Reducible
* Wash Primers & Self Etching Primers
* Other Primers - Zinc Chromate, Zinc Oxide,
Enamel
* Paint Types : MIL & Non MIL Polyurethanes,
Enamel
* Acid Etch / Conversion Coatings (Alodine)
* Spray Guns - selecting, adjusting, using &
painting problems
* Brushes / Rollers used with Primers & Paints
* Selecting a Paint Shop
* 3M Cleaning Pads & Cleaners
* Paint Booths and their Construction
* References - MIL Standard & Tech Orders
* Directory of Aircraft Paint Mfgs, Distributors
- phone numbers, E-
Mail addresses, Application Notes
YOUR AIRPLANE is judged by it's "Paint Job", so have
the latest "Information" in order to make good
decisions. Contains "Do's" and "Don'ts" that save you
time, $$$ and frustration.
Send check for $26 (includes postage within US) to:
Garey Wittich
58 Village Pkwy
Santa Monica, CA. 90405
__________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Jun 27, 2006
Subject: Re: Hot Tunnel suggestion
With all the tunnel heat discussions lately, I thought I
would write something up, and I incorporated some of Dean's
stuff, along with a nice drawing Bob Condrey sent me, and some photos
I snagged from Scott's Schmidt. It may be a good read for those
of you who are overly concerned as to the whole "Hot Tunnel"
issue.
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/mods/HotTunnel/index.html
Sorry I haven't been keeping up on the tips as much as I wanted,
but this one is a good one, IMHO.
Tim - N104CD - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: RobHickman(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 27, 2006
Subject: Parts Priming & Corrosion
On my RV-4 I spent a HUGE amount of time acid washing, alodining, and epoxy
priming every single part. On the RV-10 I have been using self etching
primer to help reduce the work.
We just bought a 1947 Cessna 140 for the kids to lean to fly and I was
installing shoulder belts in it this weekend. We had the head liner, carpet,
seats, ..... out of it.
There is no primer on any of the Aluminum anywhere and there is absolutely
no corrosion on it, yes in over 59 years!
I think I should immediately take it apart and prime it before it starts to
fall apart J
Rob Hickman
N401RH RV-4
N1877V C-140
________________________________________________________________________________
From: GenGrumpy(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 27, 2006
Subject: Re: A GUIDE TO AIRCRAFT PAINTING & CORROSION CONTROL
If it isn't copyrighted, then go for it!!
grumpy #40404
In a message dated 6/27/2006 8:17:45 PM Central Standard Time,
johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com writes:
Maybe I should buy a copy of this duck, convert it to PDF and send it to
Tim for the RV University library. What say the masses? Has someone
already contributed to Garey's retirement fund in the Bahamas?
I am at over 4,000 hours of research and wouldn't consider charging for
personal opinion, even when backed by actual documentation and life
experience.
John - $00.02
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gorejr(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Jun 29, 2006
Subject: Re: finishing kit ommisions
Chris,
Could you please re-fax the list of the things you are going to omit. Just got
the laptop working again! I am going to get wheel pants from James also. I
saw them at Lakeland. Thanks!!! Jim Gore
>
> From: "Chris Hukill" <cjhukill(at)cox.net>
> Date: 2006/06/09 Fri AM 11:58:26 EDT
> To:
> Subject: RV10-List: finishing kit ommisions
>
> I just sent Barb at Vans a list of the items to omit from my finishing kit. I
previously had her send me an inventory list of the kit, so I knew what was
there. As I want to leave my options open for a James cowl, I omitted the cowl
top, bottom, left/ right inlets, oil door and core, and all the spinner parts
(7 items). I also omitted the tires and tubes, as I like the leakguard tubes
and better tires. If anyone wants the actual part numbers of the cowl / spinner
parts to omit, I would be happy to fax the list, and save you and Vans the trouble.
>
> Chris Hukill
> completing Andair installation
> 702 591-7551 cel
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Date: Jun 29, 2006
Subject: RYO Center console - Sharing time
For the past couple of weeks I've been working on a fiberglass center
console, to accompany the panel that I bought from Aerotronics.
Originally I had planned to make my own panel, but when I found the
Aerotronics panel, it was better than what I had planned. however that
left the issue of the console. I was a bit nervous starting out, and yes
the fiberglass itches and the resin is messy, and it turns the
garage/shop into a disaster relief area, but it turned out pretty well
for a rookie. I though I'd post some links it in case others of you were
thinking of doing something similar. (Its sure a lot cheaper than
buying the Lancair parts).
Link to section which details the setps and time
http://deemsrv10.com/upperfwdfuseinstallationlogindex.html
Link to Photo Album, which contains thumbs & pics of all the panel and
console pics.
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2041%20Upper%20Fwd%20Fuse%20Install/index.html
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jun 29, 2006
Subject: Re: RYO Center console - Sharing time
Nice job Deem's!!
How many plys? And how undersized did you make the foam to allow for the layup?
Really nice.
I was following your daily progress. Can't you remove the foam with Acetone instead
of digging it out?
You should have made a plug then you could make all of us one!! ;)
Rick S.
40185
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Henkjan van der Zouw" <henkjan(at)zme.nl>
Date: Jun 30, 2006
Subject: RYO Center console - Sharing time
I made a center tunnel also but for the throttle quadrant instead of the
cables, and I do make a mold, what you see is the plug.
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=phzme&project=1&categ
ory=1632&log=15194&row=1
Henkjan van der Zouw
#355
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] Namens Deems Davis
Verzonden: vrijdag 30 juni 2006 1:45
Aan: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Onderwerp: RV10-List: RYO Center console - Sharing time
For the past couple of weeks I've been working on a fiberglass center
console, to accompany the panel that I bought from Aerotronics.
Originally I had planned to make my own panel, but when I found the
Aerotronics panel, it was better than what I had planned. however that
left the issue of the console. I was a bit nervous starting out, and yes
the fiberglass itches and the resin is messy, and it turns the
garage/shop into a disaster relief area, but it turned out pretty well
for a rookie. I though I'd post some links it in case others of you were
thinking of doing something similar. (Its sure a lot cheaper than
buying the Lancair parts).
Link to section which details the setps and time
http://deemsrv10.com/upperfwdfuseinstallationlogindex.html
Link to Photo Album, which contains thumbs & pics of all the panel and
console pics.
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2041%20Upper%20Fwd%20Fuse%20Install/index
.html
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Jun 30, 2006
Subject: RYO Center console - Sharing time
Boy, thats a beautiful setup, well done. I looked at lancair iv panels and
cant seem to find that particular one. Where did you find it and how much??
Steve
40205
For the past couple of weeks I've been working on a fiberglass center
console, to accompany the panel that I bought from Aerotronics.
Originally I had planned to make my own panel, but when I found the
Aerotronics panel, it was better than what I had planned. however that
left the issue of the console. I was a bit nervous starting out, and yes
the fiberglass itches and the resin is messy, and it turns the
garage/shop into a disaster relief area, but it turned out pretty well
for a rookie. I though I'd post some links it in case others of you were
thinking of doing something similar. (Its sure a lot cheaper than
buying the Lancair parts).
Link to section which details the setps and time
http://deemsrv10.com/upperfwdfuseinstallationlogindex.html
Link to Photo Album, which contains thumbs & pics of all the panel and
console pics.
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2041%20Upper%20Fwd%20Fuse%20Install/index.htm
l
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Date: Jun 30, 2006
Subject: Re: RYO Center console - Responses
Thanks to all for the kind words.
I'm really not interested in another career or job, (I finally got to
the point I could retire, and I'm having too much fun building an
airplane!). My purpose in posting the info was to encourage anybody that
was inclined to do some RYO (Roll Your Own) composite work to go ahead
and do it. (I'm now thinking about some cockpit/canopy panels and a
rear seat console). I'd be happy to talk to anybody who's so inclined
off line and let them know what I learned and what I'd do differently.
I did send a note to Aerotronics who makes the instrument panel, who
asked me to keep them abreast of my progress mounting their panel
(Aerotronic cost = $600) and asked them if they had any interest in
pulling a mold off of it. We'll see if they have any interest. I saw a
picture of the panel on Henkejan's Kitlog website. Apparently he saw it
@ SNF. Since the console is built to match their panel, I doubt it has
much utility with any other panel. They are marketing the panel to RV-10
owners HOWEVER, the panel was originally built for Lancair IV's and it
required some noodeling to install it in a -10 as it's NOT a perfect
fit. They are very upfront about this when you talk to them.
I built the panel using 8 plys of 6 oz cloth. in hind sight that's
probably too much, it looks like the panel was built with 5-6 plys. I
didn't make the patterns undersize, I used the fwd fuse tunnel cap as a
base and built the foam plugs directly on them using some bondo to hold
them in place temporarily, that way the glass can be drilled so that it
matches the screw/nutplates that hold the cap on the tunnel when the
foam is removed. The foam I used as Last-A-Foam from ACS and doesn't
dissolve in acetone (I sent a note to Last a Foam to see if there was
something that would dissolve it, but got no reply). Disolvable rigid
foam would have been a big help
I still have 1 3/4 - 2 inchs of room from the top of the untrimmed stick
in the full forward position to the bottom edge of the panel. I
understand that you need to cut the control stick to mount the grips, so
I'm thinking I should be OK.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Date: Jun 30, 2006
Subject: RV-10 database
Currently I have 343 of the worldwide 604 RV-10 builders listed. It
would sure be nice if more of the lurkers would update on Tim's site for
OSH (either in the Positive or the negative).
John Cox
#40600
#70454
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Jun 30, 2006
Subject: Heat Vent
Current experience in my RV-9A indicated that my wife and I require
different amounts of heat so I made a sliding cover for the heat vent
that
could be installed on either side. The sliding cover, at this point, is
much
longer than necessary as I'm thinking about how I want to control it.
All
the parts are made from .032" so the slide fits snugly and should not
move
due to vibration, etc. I'm thinking that once it's set, it may not have
to
ever be readjusted so perhaps I'll just shorten the slide and adjust it
manually.
Albert Gardner
40-422
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer(at)verizon.net>
Date: Jun 30, 2006
Subject: Re: Hot Tunnel suggestion
Hey guys, just back in town after a week long trip and am catching up on the
tunnel heat issue. I have been actively addressing the issuue myself as it
is warming up down here in SoCal. I think the ideas regarding the heat boxes
on the firewall are all good ones, but I'm starting from the inside. If I
recall correctly, the folks with the Vetterman (two exhaust pipes) have a
little more heat issue than those of us with the other style ( one pipe).
Judging by the discolored metal of my unpainted belly (90 hrs flying)
directly aft of the lower cowl, I'm banking that a lot of this heat is
radiating up through the tunnel from below. It seems it would only be worse
for the guys with two pipes protruding out the bottom. I actually believe
that it is all of the engine compt. heat venting out that big hole
underneath as well as the exhaust. In addition, if the vents were leaking
badly (I still believe this is part of the problem) wouldn't you be feeling
heat coming out of the openings in the cabin....I don't in mine. Bottom
line, I have insulated the firewall and floor in the tunnel all the way to
the back seats and also firesleeved my tunnel fuel lines to try to insulate
them a bit ( Having a little bit of a fuel vapor problem and pump cavitation
at idle). I hope to fly in the next few days. If I don't see an improvement
then I will be disconnecting the scats to the heat vents and routing them
overboard for a flight to see if that helps. Maybe they should just be
disconnected in the Summer time!!! Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Jun 30, 2006
Subject: Re: RYO Center console - Responses
Deems,
That's sweet! How much does that bad boy weigh?
John Hasbrouck
#40264
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Date: Jun 30, 2006
Subject: Re: RYO Center console - Responses
Good question: according to the bathroom digital scale 3.4 lbs
Deems
John Hasbrouck wrote:
>
> Deems,
>
> That's sweet! How much does that bad boy weigh?
>
> John Hasbrouck
> #40264
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Jun 30, 2006
Subject: Re: RYO Center console - Responses
Deems,
Wow, is that all. 3.4 lbs. ain't bad at all. Thanks for sharing.
I've been contemplating doing the same thing.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Jun 30, 2006
Subject: Re: : RV10-List:Quick Build Wings Bottom skin
John,
I did the slo'build wings but the bottom skins are the same. Followed
the sequence that is in the plans. Inboard skin first starting at the rear
spar about the middle as I recall. Take a look at the orientation of the
rib flanges and you'll see that the most inboard ones can be accessed from
the wing root. Outboard skin sequence per plans. Last three ribs outboard
can be reached with the skin curled back and through the holes in the
outboard ribs. I had help for the left wing but did the right wing myself.
Turned out great just took my time. Hope this helps....john
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Specketer" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Date: Jul 01, 2006
Subject: Kit for sale
RV-10 Quick Build kits. Empennage, wings and fuselage. Empennage is
built.
Tail cone is not. Wings and Fuselage are in the crates as received.
Empennage work has been Technical Counselor reviewed. $31,500
Transportation by buyer. Contact by e-mail is easiest.
atirburgess(at)msn.com
or lyleap(at)comcast.net
<http://by107fd.bay107.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/compose?mailto=1&msg=4
0622CE3
-27D2-4C2B-A5C6-12599F6D6092&start=0&len 758&src=&type=x&to=l
yleap@comcast
.net&cc=&bcc=&subject=&body=&curmbox=00000000-0000-0000-0000-00
0000000001&a
1b79a0b8f61dd8f6a09add832a92d0e8976abd4b832f6ba1c4cb9c39d473a9eb>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Specketer" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Date: Jul 01, 2006
Subject: Kit for sale
RV-10 Quick Build kits. Empennage, wings and fuselage. Empennage is
built.
Tail cone is not. Wings and Fuselage are in the crates as received.
Empennage work has been Technical Counselor reviewed. $31,500
Transportation by buyer. Contact by e-mail is easiest.
atirburgess(at)msn.com
or lyleap(at)comcast.net
<http://by107fd.bay107.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/compose?mailto=1&msg=4
0622CE3
-27D2-4C2B-A5C6-12599F6D6092&start=0&len 758&src=&type=x&to=l
yleap@comcast
.net&cc=&bcc=&subject=&body=&curmbox=00000000-0000-0000-0000-00
0000000001&a
1b79a0b8f61dd8f6a09add832a92d0e8976abd4b832f6ba1c4cb9c39d473a9eb>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: George Nolin <gnolin(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Jul 01, 2006
Subject: Re: Kit for sale
Gary,
Would you be willing to sell me just the fuselage? If yes, how much $?
I have completed my empennage and wings. I'm ready to order the fuse.
Hank
Gary Specketer wrote:
RV-10 Quick Build kits. Empennage, wings and fuselage. Empennage is built.
Tail cone is not. Wings and Fuselage are in the crates as received. Empennage
work has been Technical Counselor reviewed. $31,500 Transportation
by buyer. Contact by e-mail is easiest. atirburgess(at)msn.com or lyleap(at)comcast.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Condrey" <bcondrey(at)cox.net>
Date: Jul 01, 2006
Subject: Spinner Position Reference Info
I've had a request for some measurements and thought I'd post for all. The
installation of the upper and lower cowl halves is referenced to the aft
edge of the spinner. Several folks have made a spacer and a plywood disk to
simulate this but measurements are difficult to locate. My prop is on the
plane at the moment so each measurement is referenced to a location on the
flywheel assembly. Caution: I'm not sure how much variability there is in
the flywheel assembly.
spinner aft edge to forward face of flywheel (at crankshaft flange): 1
18/32"
spinner aft edge to forward edge of ring gear: 3 1/32"
spinner aft edge to aft edge of ring gear: 3 15/32"
Ring gear aligned with aft edge of flywheel.
Bob #40105
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "KiloPapa" <kilopapa(at)antelecom.net>
Date: Jul 01, 2006
Subject: Re: RV-!0 Fuselage Dolly
I would like to see some pics. Maybe you could attach them to the end of your
post where we could pic and choose which to download/view. Shrink them down some
and they won't be too large for those with slow connections (me). Thanks
for sharing your idea.
Kevin
#40494
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44225#44225
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roger Standley" <taildragon(at)msn.com>
Date: Jul 01, 2006
Subject: Aero lift
Have any multiple airplane owners out there considered the Aero-Lift
that Van's recently started using? Any comments? What was the price?
What options would you recommend?
Roger Standley
#40291 - Engine Cowling and beginning to think beyond the
garage....about hangar space
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Hukill" <cjhukill(at)cox.net>
Date: Jul 02, 2006
Subject: Aero Lift
I have an Aerolift that the RV8 is on, while I build my 10. First let me
say the lift works as advertised. The only complaint I have is the
crappy customer support that you get, in that when I arranged the
shipping, I was very, very adamant that I receive the lift when
promised. This is important because you need at least two helpers (all
day), and a rented fork lift with an extension. This is after you have
previously prepared the hangar (several days for mine). After repeated
assurances that mine will ship as promised, I was told at the last
minute that I won't receive it until the following week, because
basically I was de-prioritized by a multiple FBO order. The FBO I would
assume have employees and a forklift available during any business day,
unlike a one man show like mine. This really irritated me, and if you
buy one, be sure and remind them of my displeasure. By the way I have
never heard back from them since they have been paid. Lousy customer
support for a $14,000 specialty purchase.
As for the lift, I would not recommend the $500 castor option, as once
the lift is installed you don't need the wheels, and you can rent them
for initial positioning. I had visions of wheeling this thing around the
airport to another hangar if I ever needed too, but the reality is you
would have to dis-assemble it to move it anyway, as it barely moves
around on my perfectly flat, smooth, concrete floor. My vision of
rolling out the hangar, and down the asphalt ramp without tweeking the
lift is a pipe dream.
I bought both the nose and tailwheel hardware, and either the 8 or 10
can go on the lift.
The 8 is difficult to get on single handed, as the tailwheel needs to go
up the ramp, be secured to the dolly, and rolled back before you can
determine if the mains are in the exact position they need to be in, so
as not to damage the wheelpants, as there is only 1 inch clearance on
each side of the pant. I have the painted lines, etc., but getting it
exactly right usually takes several tries. With a helper pushing, and
pulling on the prop, it's not bad going back and forth up the ramp until
you get it just right, but solo it's exhausting, and potentially
dangerous, as the tailwheel can jump the sides of the ramp, and fall,
which would cause major damage to the tailcone. I won't even try it solo
anymore, as I have had a couple of close calls. Get a helper! If you
think I'm directionally challenged, mark a spot on a ramp, and pull your
taildragger back by the tail and try to get the mains on exactly the
mark, and you'll see what I'm talking about. I think wider wheel cradles
may be an option now, if so, buy them!
Pushing a nosewheel back on the rig should be much easier, as you can
just drive the mains right into the slots, but you will need to come in
at angle with the 10, as the horizontal stab will hit the vertical
column if you came strait back.
The 8 has since been moved into another hangar, as it was not getting
flown regularly because I'm too lazy to roll the 10 fuselage, all the
tables, etc. outside, lower the 8, replace the 10 stuff, go fly, and
repeat the process to put it all away. Just a parked airplane under the
lift would be easy to move, however it can't be a taildragger, unless
you had enough room in front of the lift, as the tailwheel has to go
over the horizontal support leg of the lift.
The lift has proved very handy as a lifting devise for the 10 project. I
use it to lift, and flip the 10 fuselage which is mounted to a steel
rack I made. This way I work on the 10 in a comfortable position. I just
installed tunnel parts while sitting in a chair, with the tunnel at eye
level. Sweet!
Chris Hukill
milking the QB fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Jul 02, 2006
Subject: F1070 roll construction angles
For those with slo-build fuse: What angle stock did you use to make the
roll construction angles ( 1070A & B ) used to roll the side skins? These
are only used for rolling the skins I think so would some angle from the
aviation dept of Lowes suffice? Looks like 3/4 X 3/4 angle, maybe .125
thickness but I can't find the answer in the plans. Any help greatly
appreciated.........thanks....john
John Hasbrouck #40264
soon to be rolling side skins
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jul 02, 2006
Subject: Re: F1070 roll construction angles
John,
Use the 3/4 x 3/4 x 1/8" angle stock.
Rick S.
40185
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ed <ed(at)muellerartcover.com>
Date: Jul 03, 2006
Subject: Re: Aero Lift
Hi Chris,
I'm interested in the rack you made for the fuselage. I've considered
mounting the fuse on a couple of engine stands so I could rotate it just
as you've described. Can you show a picture or better explain how you
accomplished this?
Thank You
Ed Mueller
# 40525
Chris Hukill wrote:
> I have an Aerolift that the RV8 is on, while I build my 10. First let
> me say the lift works as advertised. The only complaint I have is the
> crappy customer support that you get, in that when I arranged the
> shipping, I was *_very, very _*adamant that I receive the lift when
> promised. This is important because you need at least two helpers (all
> day), and a rented fork lift with an extension. This is after you have
> previously prepared the hangar (several days for mine). After repeated
> assurances that mine will ship as promised, I was told at the last
> minute that I won't receive it until the following week, because
> basically I was de-prioritized by a multiple FBO order. The FBO I
> would assume have employees and a forklift available during any
> business day, unlike a one man show like mine. This really irritated
> me, and if you buy one, be sure and remind them of my displeasure. By
> the way I have never heard back from them since they have been paid.
> Lousy customer support for a $14,000 specialty purchase.
> As for the lift, I would not recommend the $500 castor option, as once
> the lift is installed you don't need the wheels, and you can rent them
> for initial positioning. I had visions of wheeling this thing around
> the airport to another hangar if I ever needed too, but the reality is
> you would have to dis-assemble it to move it anyway, as it barely
> moves around on my perfectly flat, smooth, concrete floor. My vision
> of rolling out the hangar, and down the asphalt ramp without tweeking
> the lift is a pipe dream.
> I bought both the nose and tailwheel hardware, and either the 8 or 10
> can go on the lift.
> The 8 is difficult to get on single handed, as the tailwheel needs to
> go up the ramp, be secured to the dolly, and rolled back before you
> can determine if the mains are in the exact position they need to be
> in, so as not to damage the wheelpants, as there is only 1 inch
> clearance on each side of the pant. I have the painted lines, etc.,
> but getting it exactly right usually takes several tries. With a
> helper pushing, and pulling on the prop, it's not bad going back and
> forth up the ramp until you get it just right, but solo it's
> exhausting, and potentially dangerous, as the tailwheel can jump the
> sides of the ramp, and fall, which would cause major damage to the
> tailcone. I won't even try it solo anymore, as I have had a couple of
> close calls. Get a helper! If you think I'm directionally challenged,
> mark a spot on a ramp, and pull your taildragger back by the tail and
> try to get the mains on exactly the mark, and you'll see what I'm
> talking about. I think wider wheel cradles may be an option now, if
> so, buy them!
> Pushing a nosewheel back on the rig should be much easier, as you can
> just drive the mains right into the slots, but you will need to come
> in at angle with the 10, as the horizontal stab will hit the vertical
> column if you came strait back.
> The 8 has since been moved into another hangar, as it was not getting
> flown regularly because I'm too lazy to roll the 10 fuselage, all the
> tables, etc. outside, lower the 8, replace the 10 stuff, go fly, and
> repeat the process to put it all away. Just a parked airplane under
> the lift would be easy to move, however it can't be a taildragger,
> unless you had enough room in front of the lift, as the tailwheel has
> to go over the horizontal support leg of the lift.
> The lift has proved very handy as a lifting devise for the 10 project.
> I use it to lift, and flip the 10 fuselage which is mounted to a steel
> rack I made. This way I work on the 10 in a comfortable position. I
> just installed tunnel parts while sitting in a chair, with the tunnel
> at eye level. Sweet!
>
> Chris Hukill
> milking the QB fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net>
Date: Jul 03, 2006
Subject: EAA106 + NEVAF fly in July 15th.
EAA106 + NEVAF fly in July 15th.
RVers!! It's coming up!!!!!!
EAA106 is hosting an RV and Canard fly-in at Lawrence Airport on July 15th.
This is the fifth year that we've held the fly-in and it's bigger and better
than ever. Attached is the poster from EAA106. Please help us get the word
out and plan to come yourselves. Here are some things to note:
There is a charge this year but breakfast, lunch and handouts are
included. Pilots flying in their RVs or Canards get a big discount! My RV
is not quite ready yet so I'm going to miss out this year.
EAA 106 has negotiated a discount rate at the Comfort Suites for those who
chose to stay overnight. EAA106 will provide transportation.
There are 11 Seminars this year; more than ever before.
Although the file says 'Draft' it's official enough that you can print it
out and post it at an airport near you. I would appreciate it if everyone
who has a good color printer would print one out and post it at their
airport.
Regards
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard Reynolds <rvreynolds(at)macs.net>
Date: Jul 04, 2006
Subject: Re: EAA106 + NEVAF fly in July 15th.
I know you know where Lawrence Airport is, but how much trouble would
it be to add " Massachusetts"
Richard Reynolds
On Jul 3, 2006, at 4:22 PM, James Hein wrote:
> EAA106 + NEVAF fly in July 15th.
>
> RVers!! It's coming up!!!!!!
>
> EAA106 is hosting an RV and Canard fly-in at Lawrence Airport on
> July 15th.
> This is the fifth year that we've held the fly-in and it's bigger
> and better
> than ever. Attached is the poster from EAA106. Please help us get
> the word
> out and plan to come yourselves. Here are some things to note:
>
> There is a charge this year but breakfast, lunch and handouts are
> included. Pilots flying in their RVs or Canards get a big discount!
> My RV
> is not quite ready yet so I'm going to miss out this year.
>
> EAA 106 has negotiated a discount rate at the Comfort Suites for
> those who
> chose to stay overnight. EAA106 will provide transportation.
> There are 11 Seminars this year; more than ever before.
>
> Although the file says 'Draft' it's official enough that you can
> print it
> out and post it at an airport near you. I would appreciate it if
> everyone
> who has a good color printer would print one out and post it at their
> airport.
>
> Regards
>
> <2006 NorthEast RV and Canard Fly-In Poster.pdf>
> <2006 NorthEast RV and Canard Fly-In Poster.doc>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net>
Date: Jul 04, 2006
Subject: Re: EAA106 + NEVAF fly in July 15th.
Point noted for future reference :)
Most of the details are in the flyer, except where LWM is !
Sorry 'bout that :)
Anybody going to bring an RV-10? It would be the first one around here
we could drool over!
-Jim 40384
Richard Reynolds wrote:
>
> I know you know where Lawrence Airport is, but how much trouble would
> it be to add " Massachusetts"
>
> Richard Reynolds
>
> On Jul 3, 2006, at 4:22 PM, James Hein wrote:
>
>> EAA106 + NEVAF fly in July 15th.
>>
>> RVers!! It's coming up!!!!!!
>>
>> EAA106 is hosting an RV and Canard fly-in at Lawrence Airport on
>> July 15th.
>> This is the fifth year that we've held the fly-in and it's bigger
>> and better
>> than ever. Attached is the poster from EAA106. Please help us get
>> the word
>> out and plan to come yourselves. Here are some things to note:
>>
>> There is a charge this year but breakfast, lunch and handouts are
>> included. Pilots flying in their RVs or Canards get a big discount!
>> My RV
>> is not quite ready yet so I'm going to miss out this year.
>>
>> EAA 106 has negotiated a discount rate at the Comfort Suites for
>> those who
>> chose to stay overnight. EAA106 will provide transportation.
>> There are 11 Seminars this year; more than ever before.
>>
>> Although the file says 'Draft' it's official enough that you can
>> print it
>> out and post it at an airport near you. I would appreciate it if
>> everyone
>> who has a good color printer would print one out and post it at their
>> airport.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> <2006 NorthEast RV and Canard Fly-In Poster.pdf>
>> <2006 NorthEast RV and Canard Fly-In Poster.doc>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "KiloPapa" <kilopapa(at)antelecom.net>
Date: Jul 04, 2006
Subject: Deburring - A useful tool for edge cleanup
I have found this small belt/disk sander (pic attached) to be a useful tool for
initial edge cleanup on the heaver stock such as spar caps and stiffeners. Cleans
up edges nicely on fabricated pieces cut with a bandsaw. Used with a fine
belt it is very easy to control material removal. I use the belt more than
the disk. An edge deburr and then polish on the 3M unitized wheel leaves a finished
edge.
Kevin
40494
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44797#44797
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/belt_disk_sander_1_213.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "W. Curtis" <wcurtis(at)core.com>
Date: Jul 04, 2006
Subject: Re: RV-!0 Fuselage Dolly
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/fusestand/index.html
>I would like to see some pics. Maybe you could attach them to
>the end of your post where we could pic and choose which to
>download/view. Shrink them down some and they won't be too large
>for those with slow connections (me). Thanks
>for sharing your idea.
>
>Kevin
>#40494
William Curtis
http://nerv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Van Duyn" <rvanduyn(at)stx.rr.com>
Date: Jul 04, 2006
Subject: help locating hard points
I need some help: I am at the point of installing the front seat
shoulder harnesses and realized that I cannot locate the hard points
referenced on (page 49-02) of the RV-10 plans. The head liner is
already installed and the cabin cover is primed covering up the location
of the hard points. I sure would appreciate someone measuring the
location. This could be accomplished measuring aft of the door and up
from the window.
Thanks for your help. Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <jim(at)CombsFive.Com>
Date: Jul 04, 2006
Subject: Re: help locating hard points
The two hard points on my top are 11 1/8 inches behind the
rear edge of the door opening (Measured to the center of the circular area of the
hard point).
The hard points are 2 feet apart (center to center).
Another measurement is 5 1/2" up from the rear window lip. although yours may be
covered / painted over at this point.
A third measurement is to drop a straight edge back from the two door hinges (on
the top). The center of the hard point is 5 1/2" down (perpendicular) from
that line.
I don't know if this is going to help or not.
Jim Combs
N312F
40192
===========================================================
I need some help: I am at the point of installing the front seat shoulder harnesses
and realized that I cannot locate the hard points referenced on (page 49-02)
of the RV-10 plans. The head liner is already installed and the cabin cover
is primed covering up the location of the hard points. I sure would appreciate
someone measuring the location. This could be accomplished measuring aft
of the door and up from the window.
Thanks for your help. Bob
===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Jul 05, 2006
Subject: Lightspeed with Keyswitch and 1 Mag Wiring
This is a repost of previous info. I had a builder ask me about it
and I couldn't find it in the archives well, so I thought I'd
resend it with a good subject line.
-----
Wiring a Keyswitch Ignition - Lightspeed Plasma III/II+ ignition and a Mag
Another non-RV10 builder, Dave Sundberg passed this on to me previously,
and I wired mine this way and it indeed works fine. It does seem a bit
like black magic, but seeing as it works fine I won't be complaining.
Test it out before and after you run the engine, but it should work fine.
The configuration is a Mag on the Left side, feeding the lower plugs,
and a Lightspeed Plasma III (or II+) feeding the top plugs as the Right
system. Note that allthough Lightspeed calls it a keyswitch "Option",
it's always on the system, just optional to connect.
* The P-Lead from the Mag goes to the L-Terminal on the Switch with
the shield connected to the GRN terminal on the mag and not connected to
anything on the switch end.
* The P-Lead from the LS (Pin 1) goes to the R-Terminal on the
switch and the shield (Pin 9) goes to the GRN-Terminal in the center of
the switch.
* Do not connect the jumper from the R-Term to the GRN-Terminal
next to it.
* Do not connect the center GRN-Terminal on the switch to aircraft
ground. Both ignitions are grounded out with the switch in the OFF position.
Dave had been flying and it was working for him. I am flying too and
it's working great for me. I had previously spent time hooking mine up
and ohming things out and was confused as heck. I also was confused in
that the P-Lead on the mag is seemingly shorted to ground even with the
wire disconnected, so I couldn't easily tell that it would be grounded
by the switch. (Turns out this is normal) If you hook it all up, except
for the mag P-Lead, you can indeed see that they ground the way their
supposed to by using your ohmmeter.
I also have this posted on my Electrical Tips section on my site.
Tim
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill DeRouchey <billderou(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jul 05, 2006
Subject: Windscreen sanding tool
This may seem a bit trivial, however ....
The plans call for a 7" radius at the windscreen to front fuselage intersection.
I found inexpensive rubber sanding blocks have a rounded handle about 6" radius.
Just install the sandpaper on the top side instead of the flat side. It
does a good job of creating a uniform radius fillet.
Who knows? Maybe this is where the 7" radius originated.
Bill DeRouchey
40029/N939SB
Fly in 2 weeks
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Date: Jul 05, 2006
Subject: Re: Aero Lift
Chris,
My experience with AeroLift folks have been great. I had the same issue
with shipping but I think it was more a problem with the shipping folks (as
with shipping anything at all). The contraption made it to within 50 miles
of me in two days and took another 6 days to get to me. Luckily the folk
lift was available on my field and could flex. AeroLift tracked the
shipment and informed me of its whereabouts everyday. I feel that they did
the best possible.
Anh
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 1:33 PM
>
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> I'm interested in the rack you made for the fuselage. I've considered
> mounting the fuse on a couple of engine stands so I could rotate it just
> as you've described. Can you show a picture or better explain how you
> accomplished this?
>
> Thank You
> Ed Mueller
> # 40525
>
>
> Chris Hukill wrote:
>> I have an Aerolift that the RV8 is on, while I build my 10. First let me
>> say the lift works as advertised. The only complaint I have is the crappy
>> customer support that you get, in that when I arranged the shipping, I
>> was *_very, very _*adamant that I receive the lift when promised. This is
>> important because you need at least two helpers (all day), and a rented
>> fork lift with an extension. This is after you have previously prepared
>> the hangar (several days for mine). After repeated assurances that mine
>> will ship as promised, I was told at the last minute that I won't receive
>> it until the following week, because basically I was de-prioritized by a
>> multiple FBO order. The FBO I would assume have employees and a forklift
>> available during any business day, unlike a one man show like mine. This
>> really irritated me, and if you buy one, be sure and remind them of my
>> displeasure. By the way I have never heard back from them since they have
>> been paid. Lousy customer support for a $14,000 specialty purchase.
>> As for the lift, I would not recommend the $500 castor option, as once
>> the lift is installed you don't need the wheels, and you can rent them
>> for initial positioning. I had visions of wheeling this thing around the
>> airport to another hangar if I ever needed too, but the reality is you
>> would have to dis-assemble it to move it anyway, as it barely moves
>> around on my perfectly flat, smooth, concrete floor. My vision of rolling
>> out the hangar, and down the asphalt ramp without tweeking the lift is a
>> pipe dream.
>> I bought both the nose and tailwheel hardware, and either the 8 or 10 can
>> go on the lift.
>> The 8 is difficult to get on single handed, as the tailwheel needs to go
>> up the ramp, be secured to the dolly, and rolled back before you can
>> determine if the mains are in the exact position they need to be in, so
>> as not to damage the wheelpants, as there is only 1 inch clearance on
>> each side of the pant. I have the painted lines, etc., but getting it
>> exactly right usually takes several tries. With a helper pushing, and
>> pulling on the prop, it's not bad going back and forth up the ramp until
>> you get it just right, but solo it's exhausting, and potentially
>> dangerous, as the tailwheel can jump the sides of the ramp, and fall,
>> which would cause major damage to the tailcone. I won't even try it solo
>> anymore, as I have had a couple of close calls. Get a helper! If you
>> think I'm directionally challenged, mark a spot on a ramp, and pull your
>> taildragger back by the tail and try to get the mains on exactly the
>> mark, and you'll see what I'm talking about. I think wider wheel cradles
>> may be an option now, if so, buy them!
>> Pushing a nosewheel back on the rig should be much easier, as you can
>> just drive the mains right into the slots, but you will need to come in
>> at angle with the 10, as the horizontal stab will hit the vertical column
>> if you came strait back.
>> The 8 has since been moved into another hangar, as it was not getting
>> flown regularly because I'm too lazy to roll the 10 fuselage, all the
>> tables, etc. outside, lower the 8, replace the 10 stuff, go fly, and
>> repeat the process to put it all away. Just a parked airplane under the
>> lift would be easy to move, however it can't be a taildragger, unless you
>> had enough room in front of the lift, as the tailwheel has to go over the
>> horizontal support leg of the lift.
>> The lift has proved very handy as a lifting devise for the 10 project. I
>> use it to lift, and flip the 10 fuselage which is mounted to a steel rack
>> I made. This way I work on the 10 in a comfortable position. I just
>> installed tunnel parts while sitting in a chair, with the tunnel at eye
>> level. Sweet!
>> Chris Hukill
>> milking the QB fuselage
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net>
Date: Jul 05, 2006
Subject: IO-540 crate size
Van's just called to say my engine is shipping momentarily from Lycoming. Does
anyone have one sitting in a crate at their place who could tell me the dimensions
of the box it will arrive in? Need to know whether it will fit in the back
of my SUV, or whether I need to rent a truck like I did to pick up the finish
kit at the freight dock.
Thanks,
-Dan Masys
#40448
________________________________________________________________________________
From: GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 05, 2006
Subject: Re: IO-540 crate size
Dan saw a IO-540 at our local FBO recently seems to me it was about a
4x4x2.5 sitting on a standard wooden pallet...I did not measure it just eyeballing
it...
P
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "BPA" <BPA(at)bpaengines.com>
Date: Jul 05, 2006
Subject: IO-540 crate size
Rent a truck
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Masys
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 10:52 AM
Van's just called to say my engine is shipping momentarily from
Lycoming. Does anyone have one sitting in a crate at their place who
could tell me the dimensions of the box it will arrive in? Need to know
whether it will fit in the back of my SUV, or whether I need to rent a
truck like I did to pick up the finish kit at the freight dock.
Thanks,
-Dan Masys
#40448
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Date: Jul 05, 2006
Subject: Re: IO-540 crate size
If you ordered through Van's they are going to drop ship at your location be
it house or hangar.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 9:52 AM
>
> Van's just called to say my engine is shipping momentarily from Lycoming.
> Does anyone have one sitting in a crate at their place who could tell me
> the dimensions of the box it will arrive in? Need to know whether it will
> fit in the back of my SUV, or whether I need to rent a truck like I did to
> pick up the finish kit at the freight dock.
>
> Thanks,
> -Dan Masys
> #40448
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Date: Jul 05, 2006
Subject: seats
Just got my seats back; sending a few pictures. If anyone is interested
I can supply details on material amounts costs etc. After looking at the
size of the pictures I decided to send pictures to anyone interested but
not to the list..
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roy@Debbie" <roy.debbie(at)cox.net>
Date: Jul 05, 2006
Subject: Re: seats
Please send pictures of seats.
----- Original Message -----
From: David McNeill
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 3:46 PM
Subject: RV10-List: seats
Just got my seats back; sending a few pictures. If anyone is
interested I can supply details on material amounts costs etc. After
looking at the size of the pictures I decided to send pictures to anyone
interested but not to the list..
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Jul 05, 2006
Subject: Bob's Ground Power Plug button
I've been slowly working on Bob Nuckolls' design for the ground power plug
made out of the Cole-Hersey Piper-style plug/socket. I couldn't get the
insulating button out with pliers or other methods so I figured I'd try to
be careful as I heated up the rear screw for solder. Of course, it got too
hot and melted. I emailed Cole-Hersey (CH) on the website and got a message
to call local dealers. Dealers, come to find out, don't carry little parts,
just the end item.
I finally talked to someone at CH who had to go down to the assembly
line/warehouse to find the little buttons, then sent me four for free when I
only requested one that I would pay for, and who was also kind enough to
write the part number on the little baggie when she sent them to me.
Awesome job at customer service. If anyone else has had this problem,
before you go buy a new plug or find a decades-old salvage part, call CH up
and ask for part number 11055-25.
Rob Wright
RV-10 #392
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jul 05, 2006
Subject: RV-10 Stats
I'm doing some research for a project and need to know a few Stats on the
RV-10.
I know this is "The Place" to come to get this info!
Any and all info is greatly appreciated!
I'll post the results along with some details of our project(s).
How many RV-10 kits have been sold?
How many are flying?
How many kits have an engine, but are not flying yet?
( i.e. How big is the current RV-10 engine market? )
What are the most popular engine options, O-540, IO-540, IO-550,
IO-360......?
What are the top 5 engine modifications?
Who are seen as the best engine builders?
What's a good/fair price for a new engine?
Sincerely,
Eric Parlow
ericparlow(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Date: Jul 05, 2006
Subject: RV-10 Stats
The highest kit number I have seen in 602
Vans site says 37 flying
I have kit 322, not flying, have engine
I have an IO-540
I performed no mods to the engine
I have no opinion on the best builders, I bought a used engine and a local
shop id overhauling it for me
$35,000
Rene' Felker
40322
N423cf
Finish kit
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Parlow
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 5:39 PM
I'm doing some research for a project and need to know a few Stats on the
RV-10.
I know this is "The Place" to come to get this info!
Any and all info is greatly appreciated!
I'll post the results along with some details of our project(s).
How many RV-10 kits have been sold?
How many are flying?
How many kits have an engine, but are not flying yet?
( i.e. How big is the current RV-10 engine market? )
What are the most popular engine options, O-540, IO-540, IO-550,
IO-360......?
What are the top 5 engine modifications?
Who are seen as the best engine builders?
What's a good/fair price for a new engine?
Sincerely,
Eric Parlow
ericparlow(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Date: Jul 05, 2006
Subject: RV-10 Stats
As of last Friday, 604 kits sold. The 37 is conservatives under
reported. I have nearly fifty finished. You get what you pay for with
builders. Until you define what you want. Aerosport has sold the most
IO540 rebuilds for the RV-10.
John
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 4:55 PM
The highest kit number I have seen in 602 Vans site says 37 flying I
have kit 322, not flying, have engine I have an IO-540 I performed no
mods to the engine I have no opinion on the best builders, I bought a
used engine and a local shop id overhauling it for me $35,000
Rene' Felker
40322
N423cf
Finish kit
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Parlow
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 5:39 PM
I'm doing some research for a project and need to know a few Stats on
the RV-10.
I know this is "The Place" to come to get this info!
Any and all info is greatly appreciated!
I'll post the results along with some details of our project(s).
How many RV-10 kits have been sold?
How many are flying?
How many kits have an engine, but are not flying yet?
( i.e. How big is the current RV-10 engine market? ) What are the
most popular engine options, O-540, IO-540, IO-550, IO-360......?
What are the top 5 engine modifications?
Who are seen as the best engine builders?
What's a good/fair price for a new engine?
Sincerely,
Eric Parlow
ericparlow(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Jul 05, 2006
Subject: TruTrak Pitch Servo Quality
Bill,
Good info. I think the QC problems are because of growing pains as
several other vendors are seeing from the boom in homebuilt's and
specifically high end models like the -10. No one should mistake my
comments with a dislike of their products, I would still use their AP
over anyone else's
I would have like to have heard something out of TruTrak about my, and
others, posts on this subject though. I know Andrew Barker trolls this
list and I'm 99.9% sure he probably read it first thing this morning.
Hopefully they are just trying to figure out the best way to address it.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Schlatterer
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 7:03 PM
Mike, mine for the 7 were perfect but shipped a year ago and I just
talked to John today. They answered on the third ring. Helpful as
usual. Just another data point.
Bill S
7a wiring/engine
________________________________
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 6:58 AM
Has anyone else had any problems with the newer model of the TruTrak
pitch servo? Mine looks like it was thrown together where the DB9
connector is and the wire grommet is split, the mounting bracket aft
hole is off by =BC", the bolt they sent to attach to the bellcrank is
too short, and the entire instructions comprised two fuzzy pictures.
Not what I would expect for a $1300 servo. And no, I haven't talked to
them. The last couple of times I emailed or left a VM, no one ever
returned my call.
Michael Sausen
RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage
Recent RV-10 Build Activity
<http://www.mykitlog.com/display_project.php?project_id=22>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: DOUGPFLYRV(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 05, 2006
Subject: Re: Bob's Ground Power Plug button
You will probably need the MALE connector with you for the Piper style GPU
plug. Been flying GA and Corporate for over 40 years and don't recall ever
seeing a GPU at FBO with Piper type plug. We installed the "UNIVERSAL" style
receptacle in or RV & will carry the male jumper plug in the A/C.
_http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/plugnjump.php_
(http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/plugnjump.php)
Good luck.
Doug Preston
RV-7A - 19 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Jul 05, 2006
Subject: Bob's Ground Power Plug button
Yeah, I bought the male end as well and will adapt it to a set of jumper
cables for the emergency kit in the plane.
Rob Wright
#392
_____
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
DOUGPFLYRV(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 8:17 PM
You will probably need the MALE connector with you for the Piper style GPU
plug. Been flying GA and Corporate for over 40 years and don't recall ever
seeing a GPU at FBO with Piper type plug. We installed the "UNIVERSAL" style
receptacle in or RV & will carry the male jumper plug in the A/C.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/plugnjump.php
Good luck.
Doug Preston
RV-7A - 19 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Murray Randall" <aeroads(at)comcast.net>
Date: Jul 06, 2006
Subject: Re: IO-540 crate size
Lycoming shipped me a "container" for SB 566 crankshaft
replacement....41.5" X 44" X 33" high for a IO540 V4A5 in a Maule
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "W. Curtis" <wcurtis(at)core.com>
Date: Jul 06, 2006
Subject: Re: Bob's Ground Power Plug button
By "universal" I gather you mean the receptacle that mates with the AN2551 plug as sold here: <http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/extpowerrect.php>
Since my 177RG has the "universal" receptacle, a few years ago I ordered the wooden
AN2551 plug from Aircraft Spruce (~$30) and attached it to a chepo set of
jumper cables(~$10).
<http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/woodplug.php>
The Piper style Plug & receptacle is even cheaper at $20 and $16 respectively. <http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/piperplugsock.php>
The nice thing about the AN2551 "universal" style is that it has built in protection
from polarity reversal. I'm not sure how the Piper sytle accomplishes this,
if at all.
The Plug-N-Jump ($70 or $75)is nice but you still require cables to attach to it.
>You will probably need the MALE connector with you for the Piper
>style GPU plug. Been flying GA and Corporate for over 40 years and
>don't recall ever seeing a GPU at FBO with Piper type plug. We
>installed the "UNIVERSAL" style receptacle in or RV & will carry
>the male jumper plug in the A/C.
>
>http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/plugnjump.php
>
>Good luck.
>
>Doug Preston
>RV-7A - 19 hrs.
William Curtis
40237 - SB Fuselage side skins
http://nerv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Jul 06, 2006
Subject: TruTrak Pitch Servo Quality
Guys & Gals,
I wanted to post some follow-up conversations I had with Andrew this
morning. He contacted me once he had some answers. Good stuff that
gives me the warm fuzzy's.
Michael Sausen
RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage
Recent RV-10 Build Activity
<http://www.mykitlog.com/display_project.php?project_id=22>
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 10:06 AM
No worries!
My only concern with the split washer is that if they cut too much away,
then the servo wires might work their way into the split. This is why
we are thinking about changing it. We have not had any problem with
chafing, at least not that I have been told about.
Thanks for the bolt length help I will get back with shipping again
today and check on that.
You are more than welcome to post my reply to the list.
Once again thanks for the help and I certainly do appreciate the
constructive criticism.
Andrew Barker
General Manager
TruTrak Flight Systems
"You build it...We fly it!"
PH:479-751-0250 Ext. 222
www.trutrakap.com
________________________________
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 9:54 AM
Andrew,
Thanks for the reply. As I said in one of my later posts I figured
you were looking into things. Don't worry about shipping out a new
mounting bracket as long as you don't have any alignment concerns.
Everything looked pretty good on my install once I drilled a new hole.
I didn't notice the split grommet on the roll servo way back when I did
that one but my concern was that the wire could eventually work into the
split and chafe. If you haven't seen this in a few thousand servos, I'm
not too concerned. I also put a dab of E6000 on it to make sure it
couldn't wiggle. The length of bolt I got was a -11A and the one that I
used was a -13A, although a -12A probably would have also worked.
I'm glad you didn't see my post as bashing TruTrak. It was really
meant to see if my circumstance was a one off or a wider problem that
needed your attention. I have dealt with more than one vendor that
could not take ANY criticism of their product or answer any of the tough
questions I would hit them with. Eggenfeller is the first to come to
mind with this type of mentality. He actually banned me from purchasing
one of his engines because I criticized him for changing the advertised
HP on his H6 engine almost weekly. J
Anyway, I wouldn't fly with anyone else's AP.
Michael Sausen
RV-10 #352
PS, you mind if I post this over to the -10 list?
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 9:16 AM
Yes, I do "troll" the list. You were also correct that I read your post
first thing. The biggest reason that I didn't get a reply off to you
yesterday was that I had to get some information on the things that you
posted about. So, here goes...
Yes, we have a small issue in the fit of the new cover over the servo
amp board. We have a new vendor for this part, and they had the DB-9
hole a little too far down. This problem has been addressed, but the
manufacturer of the part needed some time to get me the new parts.
Since the old parts are still useable, they just don't fit as perfectly
as I would like, I elected to use them until they could get me new
parts.
The split grommet has been used since the first servo was
produced...that is somewhere between seven and eight thousand servos
ago. We were however talking about his problem just a few days ago. We
are looking at this problem.
As to the pitch servo bracket, I was completely unaware of a problem.
Thank you very much for bringing this to my attention. In my research
yesterday, it appears that some of our new pitch brackets were not
properly bent. I apologize for this mistake, and would be more than
happy to send you, and anyone else that has an incorrectly bent bracket,
a new bracket that is properly bent as soon as I see them. I should
have an update on when I will get the new brackets today.
I am still checking on the length of the bolt to attach the pushrod to
the bellcrank. I don't yet know if that was just a shipping department
mistake or not. I would assume so, because I haven't heard of this
being a problem yet. I should have more information on that today as
well.
You are correct, we do not yet have all of the drawings together for the
RV-10 pitch installation. I do not like that we are sending out picture
instead of drawings, but I decided that this was certainly better than
no documentation. We are working on these drawings, and should soon
have them out. Things are certainly a little tight right now with
Oshkosh coming up in 2 weeks and all.
Last but not least, I do appreciate you keeping us in check and pointing
out the problems to me. I always appreciate it when people do not just
accept what they get as "what it is supposed to be". Without customer
input, we would not have half of the products that we do today. It is
the customer that makes our business, and I am very glad that we have
such a great group of customers in the RV community. If you or anyone
has any problems, you are more than welcome to call me personally. If
you can't get me at my extension, please check with the operator. Many
times I am either in a meeting or away from my desk. If I am available,
she will round me up. Thanks again.
Andrew Barker
General Manager
TruTrak Flight Systems
"You build it...We fly it!"
PH:479-751-0250 Ext. 222
www.trutrakap.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 06, 2006
Subject: Re: Lightspeed with Keyswitch and 1 Mag Wiring
I have a similar, but slightly different solution for this. I have an IO-540
with a single (left) mag with impulse coupler and a Lightspeed II+. I am
using the standard Van's key switch for the ignition. I am starting using the
Lightspeed.
Since I'm starting on the Lightspeed I want to ground out (disable) the Left
mag during start. If you connect the mag to the R-terminal with jumper to
GRN-terminal installed, the mag will be grounded out during start. I connected
the L-terminal to the keyswitch option on the Lightspeed. All other keyswitch
connections were normal per the instructions included. Then (this is
important) I relabeled the key switch. It now says OFF-L-E-BOTH-START (L for left
mag and E for electronic ignition).
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 7/5/2006 9:54:13 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
Tim(at)MyRV10.com writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson
This is a repost of previous info. I had a builder ask me about it
and I couldn't find it in the archives well, so I thought I'd
resend it with a good subject line.
-----
Wiring a Keyswitch Ignition - Lightspeed Plasma III/II+ ignition and a Mag
Another non-RV10 builder, Dave Sundberg passed this on to me previously,
and I wired mine this way and it indeed works fine. It does seem a bit
like black magic, but seeing as it works fine I won't be complaining.
Test it out before and after you run the engine, but it should work fine.
The configuration is a Mag on the Left side, feeding the lower plugs,
and a Lightspeed Plasma III (or II+) feeding the top plugs as the Right
system. Note that allthough Lightspeed calls it a keyswitch "Option",
it's always on the system, just optional to connect.
* The P-Lead from the Mag goes to the L-Terminal on the Switch with
the shield connected to the GRN terminal on the mag and not connected to
anything on the switch end.
* The P-Lead from the LS (Pin 1) goes to the R-Terminal on the
switch and the shield (Pin 9) goes to the GRN-Terminal in the center of
the switch.
* Do not connect the jumper from the R-Term to the GRN-Terminal
next to it.
* Do not connect the center GRN-Terminal on the switch to aircraft
ground. Both ignitions are grounded out with the switch in the OFF position.
Dave had been flying and it was working for him. I am flying too and
it's working great for me. I had previously spent time hooking mine up
and ohming things out and was confused as heck. I also was confused in
that the P-Lead on the mag is seemingly shorted to ground even with the
wire disconnected, so I couldn't easily tell that it would be grounded
by the switch. (Turns out this is normal) If you hook it all up, except
for the mag P-Lead, you can indeed see that they ground the way their
supposed to by using your ohmmeter.
I also have this posted on my Electrical Tips section on my site.
Tim
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Jul 06, 2006
Subject: Re: Lightspeed with Keyswitch and 1 Mag Wiring
I was hoping I'd hear some input on this. Thanks Jim.
Question: Why did you want to ground the mag during start?
I've been starting on both and it's been starting very
well. Is there something bad about starting with both?
I see why you included "this is important" on the relabeling
portion, as the standard operation is: OFF-R-L-BOTH-START
so the "E" isn't taking place of the "R", it's taking place
of the "L" and the "L" is where the "R" is normally.
One more question: From what you can tell then, the
NORMALLY RIGHT mag portion is grounded during start,
correct? This is the problem I tried to overcome. The
switching diagram provided really doesn't seem to indicate
exactly what is going on. I didn't find that the switch,
if wired "normally" without the "GND" jumper in place,
would allow for proper operation in all modes. I believe
it was START that was the one that didn't behave.
Also, another builder contacted me off-list who believes
the way I have it wired may be using the switch's case
as the ground, and that it wouldn't be safe if the ground
wasn't solid. I'm not sure if this is or isn't true. The
original guy who gave me the tip, and I myself, seem to
think that the ground source might be the Lightspeed
itself. Not 100% sure about this though. The only
100% sure thing I am, is that at least the way it's wired
right now it operates the way I want it to. Left and
Right are grounded when the opposite is chosen, both
ungrounds both, and so does start. And most importantly,
they are both grounded when OFF is chosen.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
JSMcGrew(at)aol.com wrote:
> I have a similar, but slightly different solution for this. I have an
> IO-540 with a single (left) mag with impulse coupler and a Lightspeed
> II+. I am using the standard Van's key switch for the ignition. I am
> starting using the Lightspeed.
>
> Since I'm starting on the Lightspeed I want to ground out (disable) the
> Left mag during start. If you connect the mag to the R-terminal with
> jumper to GRN-terminal installed, the mag will be grounded out during
> start. I connected the L-terminal to the keyswitch option on the
> Lightspeed. All other keyswitch connections were normal per the
> instructions included. Then (this is important) I relabeled the key
> switch. It now says OFF-L-E-BOTH-START (L for left mag and E for
> electronic ignition).
>
> -Jim
> 40134
>
> In a message dated 7/5/2006 9:54:13 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
> Tim(at)MyRV10.com writes:
>
>
> This is a repost of previous info. I had a builder ask me about it
> and I couldn't find it in the archives well, so I thought I'd
> resend it with a good subject line.
>
> -----
>
> Wiring a Keyswitch Ignition - Lightspeed Plasma III/II+ ignition and
> a Mag
>
> Another non-RV10 builder, Dave Sundberg passed this on to me
> previously,
> and I wired mine this way and it indeed works fine. It does seem a bit
> like black magic, but seeing as it works fine I won't be complaining.
> Test it out before and after you run the engine, but it should work
> fine.
> The configuration is a Mag on the Left side, feeding the lower plugs,
> and a Lightspeed Plasma III (or II+) feeding the top plugs as the Right
> system. Note that allthough Lightspeed calls it a keyswitch "Option",
> it's always on the system, just optional to connect.
>
> * The P-Lead from the Mag goes to the L-Terminal on the Switch
> with
> the shield connected to the GRN terminal on the mag and not
> connected to
> anything on the switch end.
> * The P-Lead from the LS (Pin 1) goes to the R-Terminal on the
> switch and the shield (Pin 9) goes to the GRN-Terminal in the center of
> the switch.
> * Do not connect the jumper from the R-Term to the GRN-Terminal
> next to it.
> * Do not connect the center GRN-Terminal on the switch to aircraft
> ground. Both ignitions are grounded out with the switch in the OFF
> position.
>
> Dave had been flying and it was working for him. I am flying too and
> it's working great for me. I had previously spent time hooking mine up
> and ohming things out and was confused as heck. I also was confused in
> that the P-Lead on the mag is seemingly shorted to ground even with
> the
> wire disconnected, so I couldn't easily tell that it would be grounded
> by the switch. (Turns out this is normal) If you hook it all up,
> except
> for the mag P-Lead, you can indeed see that they ground the way their
> supposed to by using your ohmmeter.
>
> I also have this posted on my Electrical Tips section on my site.
> Tim
>
> --
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - ========================= es Day
>
> --> ================================================== -
> NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
> - List Contribution Web Site
> =================================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jul 06, 2006
Subject: Re: seats
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
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and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 06, 2006
Subject: Re: Lightspeed with Keyswitch and 1 Mag Wiring
Tim
I'm not an expert, but it is my understanding when you are retarding the
spark for starting it is best to only have one system doing that for you. I
suppose if the impulse mag and electronic ignition are doing approximately the
same thing you would never know the difference.
I spent a lot of time with a multi-meter and the ignition switch. I don't
have it or my notes in front of me right now, but I recall that there are 2
GRN-terminals (as far as I could tell they are labeled exactly the same) - one
is in the center (for connection to aircraft ground) and one is for the jumper
to the R-terminal. In the START position the GRN-terminal next to the R
terminal is internally connected to the center aircraft ground GRN-terminal -
so
if the jumper is in place, the R-terminal will be grounded. Without the
jumper it will not be grounded.
If you are still with me, here is what I found to be strange: In R - L or
BOTH the R-terminal is INTERNALLY connected to the GRN-terminal (the one next
to the R-terminal), however the internal connection with the aircraft ground
GRN terminal has been broken. What I am getting at, is if you were to put a
jumper from the L-terminal to the GRN terminal thinking that you were going to
start on the right mag and ground out the left mag, it wouldn't quite work
that way and you would have trouble when doing a mag check (as the L and R
terminal would be connected together). This is why I ended up switching L for
R
and E for L on the markings.
I realize that this isn't the exact problem that you are having, but I think
the way yours is set up is related to the unexpected internal connections
inside the switch. I'm not certain whether your ground is coming from the switch
case or the LS, but it doesn't seem right to not be grounded to aircraft
ground.
All that and now I must caveat this with the fact that, although my ignition
system works great on paper and with a multi-meter... I haven't started it
yet. I'll let you know.
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 7/6/2006 12:02:38 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
Tim(at)MyRV10.com writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson
I was hoping I'd hear some input on this. Thanks Jim.
Question: Why did you want to ground the mag during start?
I've been starting on both and it's been starting very
well. Is there something bad about starting with both?
I see why you included "this is important" on the relabeling
portion, as the standard operation is: OFF-R-L-BOTH-START
so the "E" isn't taking place of the "R", it's taking place
of the "L" and the "L" is where the "R" is normally.
One more question: From what you can tell then, the
NORMALLY RIGHT mag portion is grounded during start,
correct? This is the problem I tried to overcome. The
switching diagram provided really doesn't seem to indicate
exactly what is going on. I didn't find that the switch,
if wired "normally" without the "GND" jumper in place,
would allow for proper operation in all modes. I believe
it was START that was the one that didn't behave.
Also, another builder contacted me off-list who believes
the way I have it wired may be using the switch's case
as the ground, and that it wouldn't be safe if the ground
wasn't solid. I'm not sure if this is or isn't true. The
original guy who gave me the tip, and I myself, seem to
think that the ground source might be the Lightspeed
itself. Not 100% sure about this though. The only
100% sure thing I am, is that at least the way it's wired
right now it operates the way I want it to. Left and
Right are grounded when the opposite is chosen, both
ungrounds both, and so does start. And most importantly,
they are both grounded when OFF is chosen.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
JSMcGrew(at)aol.com wrote:
> I have a similar, but slightly different solution for this. I have an
> IO-540 with a single (left) mag with impulse coupler and a Lightspeed
> II+. I am using the standard Van's key switch for the ignition. I am
> starting using the Lightspeed.
>
> Since I'm starting on the Lightspeed I want to ground out (disable) the
> Left mag during start. If you connect the mag to the R-terminal with
> jumper to GRN-terminal installed, the mag will be grounded out during
> start. I connected the L-terminal to the keyswitch option on the
> Lightspeed. All other keyswitch connections were normal per the
> instructions included. Then (this is important) I relabeled the key
> switch. It now says OFF-L-E-BOTH-START (L for left mag and E for
> electronic ignition).
>
> -Jim
> 40134
>
> In a message dated 7/5/2006 9:54:13 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
> Tim(at)MyRV10.com writes:
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson
>
> This is a repost of previous info. I had a builder ask me about it
> and I couldn't find it in the archives well, so I thought I'd
> resend it with a good subject line.
>
> -----
>
> Wiring a Keyswitch Ignition - Lightspeed Plasma III/II+ ignition and
> a Mag
>
> Another non-RV10 builder, Dave Sundberg passed this on to me
> previously,
> and I wired mine this way and it indeed works fine. It does seem a bit
> like black magic, but seeing as it works fine I won't be complaining.
> Test it out before and after you run the engine, but it should work
> fine.
> The configuration is a Mag on the Left side, feeding the lower plugs,
> and a Lightspeed Plasma III (or II+) feeding the top plugs as the Right
> system. Note that allthough Lightspeed calls it a keyswitch "Option",
> it's always on the system, just optional to connect.
>
> * The P-Lead from the Mag goes to the L-Terminal on the Switch
> with
> the shield connected to the GRN terminal on the mag and not
> connected to
> anything on the switch end.
> * The P-Lead from the LS (Pin 1) goes to the R-Terminal on the
> switch and the shield (Pin 9) goes to the GRN-Terminal in the center of
> the switch.
> * Do not connect the jumper from the R-Term to the GRN-Terminal
> next to it.
> * Do not connect the center GRN-Terminal on the switch to aircraft
> ground. Both ignitions are grounded out with the switch in the OFF
> position.
>
> Dave had been flying and it was working for him. I am flying too and
> it's working great for me. I had previously spent time hooking mine up
> and ohming things out and was confused as heck. I also was confused
in
> that the P-Lead on the mag is seemingly shorted to ground even with
> the
> wire disconnected, so I couldn't easily tell that it would be grounded
> by the switch. (Turns out this is normal) If you hook it all up,
> except
> for the mag P-Lead, you can indeed see that they ground the way their
> supposed to by using your ohmmeter.
>
> I also have this posted on my Electrical Tips section on my site.
> Tim
>
> --
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - ========================= es Day
>
> --> ================================================== -
> NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
> - List Contribution Web Site
> =================================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <jim(at)CombsFive.Com>
Date: Jul 06, 2006
Subject: IO-540 Engine Question
I have a used IO-540 engine and today I removed the intake / induction tubes that
run from the sides of the oil sump up to the cylinders.
Down at the oil sump there is a flexible hose that joins the metal tubes together.
After removing the tubes I noticed that three of the six stubs coming out
of the oil sump were loose and could be moved in and out about an 1/8 inch.
I talked to a local EAA member and he said the tubes were "rolled" in order to
slightly expand them and hold them in place.
So the questions are:
(1) Do I need to get / borrow a tool to roll these again? (2) Can this be done
while the sump is attached?
(3) What about using a sealant (Fuel tank sealant comes to mind) to seal up the
tubes to the oil sump vs "rolling" them again?
Also, Where is a good place to order gaskets? I would like to replace the valve
cover gaskets while I am cleaning up the outside. Need new cylinder intake
gaskets as well.
I have ordered manuals for the engine from Lycoming but they are not here yet.
I need to get part numbers.
Thanks,
Jim Combs
N40192
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com>
Date: Jul 06, 2006
Subject: IO-540 Engine Question
Aircraft Specialties has lots of parts for Lycoming and Continental,
including Gaskets . . .
Or even Spruce has the basic ones . . .
TDT
40025
-----Original Message-----
jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Sent: Thu 7/6/2006 8:55 PM
I have a used IO-540 engine and today I removed the intake / induction
tubes that run from the sides of the oil sump up to the cylinders.
Down at the oil sump there is a flexible hose that joins the metal tubes
together. After removing the tubes I noticed that three of the six
stubs coming out of the oil sump were loose and could be moved in and
out about an 1/8 inch. I talked to a local EAA member and he said the
tubes were "rolled" in order to slightly expand them and hold them in
place.
So the questions are:
(1) Do I need to get / borrow a tool to roll these again? (2) Can this
be done while the sump is attached?
(3) What about using a sealant (Fuel tank sealant comes to mind) to seal
up the tubes to the oil sump vs "rolling" them again?
Also, Where is a good place to order gaskets? I would like to replace
the valve cover gaskets while I am cleaning up the outside. Need new
cylinder intake gaskets as well.
I have ordered manuals for the engine from Lycoming but they are not
here yet. I need to get part numbers.
Thanks,
Jim Combs
N40192
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Date: Jul 06, 2006
Subject: Here I go again - console finished
I finished the center console today, and can't resist gloating just a
little 8-) .
http://deemsrv10.com/41-2consolefinished.htm
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2041%20Upper%20Fwd%20Fuse%20Install/slides/DSC03024.html
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse/Finish
http://deemsrv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jul 06, 2006
Subject: Flap position sensor
I would like to hear from anyone who has mounted a Ray Allan flap position
sensor (POS 12) on the flap system to drive a Ray Allan LED indicator. A
picture or description of where and how you mounted it would be most
appreciated.
Thanks
Dick Sipp
40065
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Date: Jul 06, 2006
Subject: Re: Lightspeed with Keyswitch and 1 Mag Wiring
Without getting into the details of the switch per se....the switches
are manufactured to allow you the choice of starting on both mags or on
left mag only. I don't believe right mag only is an option.
This originates with certified aircraft, where you can have a shower of
sparks ignition on the left mag, and no retard on the right, or you can
have impulse coupling on the left mag and none on the right, or you can
have two impulse coupled mags. You want any mag (or electronic
equivalent) that fires during cranking to do so at TDC. If a mag fires
at the normal 20-25 degrees during cranking, you risk a cylinder firing
enough before TDC to drive the engine backwards, also called a
kickback..which can destroy your starter and vacuum pump. This is
prevented by having the right mag grounded during the time the key is in
the start position, and the left mag fired by retard breaker or impulse
coupling.
Obviously your experimental doesn't have to adhere to convention, but it
is harder to swim upstream when the boat points the other way.
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> I was hoping I'd hear some input on this. Thanks Jim.
>
> Question: Why did you want to ground the mag during start?
> I've been starting on both and it's been starting very
> well. Is there something bad about starting with both?
>
> I see why you included "this is important" on the relabeling
> portion, as the standard operation is: OFF-R-L-BOTH-START
> so the "E" isn't taking place of the "R", it's taking place
> of the "L" and the "L" is where the "R" is normally.
>
> One more question: From what you can tell then, the
> NORMALLY RIGHT mag portion is grounded during start,
> correct? This is the problem I tried to overcome. The
> switching diagram provided really doesn't seem to indicate
> exactly what is going on. I didn't find that the switch,
> if wired "normally" without the "GND" jumper in place,
> would allow for proper operation in all modes. I believe
> it was START that was the one that didn't behave.
>
> Also, another builder contacted me off-list who believes
> the way I have it wired may be using the switch's case
> as the ground, and that it wouldn't be safe if the ground
> wasn't solid. I'm not sure if this is or isn't true. The
> original guy who gave me the tip, and I myself, seem to
> think that the ground source might be the Lightspeed
> itself. Not 100% sure about this though. The only
> 100% sure thing I am, is that at least the way it's wired
> right now it operates the way I want it to. Left and
> Right are grounded when the opposite is chosen, both
> ungrounds both, and so does start. And most importantly,
> they are both grounded when OFF is chosen.
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
>
> JSMcGrew(at)aol.com wrote:
>> I have a similar, but slightly different solution for this. I have an
>> IO-540 with a single (left) mag with impulse coupler and a Lightspeed
>> II+. I am using the standard Van's key switch for the ignition. I am
>> starting using the Lightspeed.
>>
>> Since I'm starting on the Lightspeed I want to ground out (disable)
>> the Left mag during start. If you connect the mag to the R-terminal
>> with jumper to GRN-terminal installed, the mag will be grounded out
>> during start. I connected the L-terminal to the keyswitch option on
>> the Lightspeed. All other keyswitch connections were normal per the
>> instructions included. Then (this is important) I relabeled the key
>> switch. It now says OFF-L-E-BOTH-START (L for left mag and E for
>> electronic ignition).
>>
>> -Jim
>> 40134
>>
>> In a message dated 7/5/2006 9:54:13 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
>> Tim(at)MyRV10.com writes:
>>
>>
>> This is a repost of previous info. I had a builder ask me about it
>> and I couldn't find it in the archives well, so I thought I'd
>> resend it with a good subject line.
>>
>> -----
>>
>> Wiring a Keyswitch Ignition - Lightspeed Plasma III/II+ ignition and
>> a Mag
>>
>> Another non-RV10 builder, Dave Sundberg passed this on to me
>> previously,
>> and I wired mine this way and it indeed works fine. It does seem
>> a bit
>> like black magic, but seeing as it works fine I won't be
>> complaining.
>> Test it out before and after you run the engine, but it should work
>> fine.
>> The configuration is a Mag on the Left side, feeding the lower
>> plugs,
>> and a Lightspeed Plasma III (or II+) feeding the top plugs as the
>> Right
>> system. Note that allthough Lightspeed calls it a keyswitch
>> "Option",
>> it's always on the system, just optional to connect.
>>
>> * The P-Lead from the Mag goes to the L-Terminal on the Switch
>> with
>> the shield connected to the GRN terminal on the mag and not
>> connected to
>> anything on the switch end.
>> * The P-Lead from the LS (Pin 1) goes to the R-Terminal on the
>> switch and the shield (Pin 9) goes to the GRN-Terminal in the
>> center of
>> the switch.
>> * Do not connect the jumper from the R-Term to the GRN-Terminal
>> next to it.
>> * Do not connect the center GRN-Terminal on the switch to
>> aircraft
>> ground. Both ignitions are grounded out with the switch in the OFF
>> position.
>>
>> Dave had been flying and it was working for him. I am flying too
>> and
>> it's working great for me. I had previously spent time hooking
>> mine up
>> and ohming things out and was confused as heck. I also was
>> confused in
>> that the P-Lead on the mag is seemingly shorted to ground even with
>> the
>> wire disconnected, so I couldn't easily tell that it would be
>> grounded
>> by the switch. (Turns out this is normal) If you hook it all up,
>> except
>> for the mag P-Lead, you can indeed see that they ground the way
>> their
>> supposed to by using your ohmmeter.
>>
>> I also have this posted on my Electrical Tips section on my site.
>> Tim
>>
>> -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - ========================= es
>> Day -->
>> ================================================== -
>> NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
>> - List Contribution Web Site
>> =================================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Date: Jul 07, 2006
Subject: Here I go again - console finished
Very nice!
Bob #40105
Firewall fwd and paint prep
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 10:38 PM
I finished the center console today, and can't resist gloating just a
little 8-) .
http://deemsrv10.com/41-2consolefinished.htm
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2041%20Upper%20Fwd%20Fuse%20Install/slide
s/DSC03024.html
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse/Finish
http://deemsrv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Sam Marlow <sam.marlow(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Jul 07, 2006
Subject: PDF files
I'm planing to paint my own aircraft and just wondered where I might
fined a plain drawing of the RV10 to doodle on?
Sam
Finish kit
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric_Kallio" <scout019(at)msn.com>
Date: Jul 07, 2006
Subject: Elevator trim servo
I have a question for the group. I am finishing up section 12 and am to the point
of adjusting the elevator trim tab servo. The instructions say to move the
servo are through the necessary range of motion (don't have my plans available
right now to get the exact wording). My question is what kind of power sources
have been used to motor the servo, or what other method has been used? I would
appreciate any assistance and suggestions on this matter as I wasn't able to
track down much through the archives. Thank you.
Eric Kallio
#518 finishing up the tailcone
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=45513#45513
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net>
Date: Jul 07, 2006
Subject: Elevator trim servo
Using the white wires, you can run the motor off any ~12v source.
I used my 14.4 volt battery off my cordless drill for this motor and the
flap motor. Just flip the wires around to run the motor the other way.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric_Kallio
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 1:52 PM
I have a question for the group. I am finishing up section 12 and am to
the point of adjusting the elevator trim tab servo. The instructions say
to move the servo are through the necessary range of motion (don't have
my plans available right now to get the exact wording). My question is
what kind of power sources have been used to motor the servo, or what
other method has been used? I would appreciate any assistance and
suggestions on this matter as I wasn't able to track down much through
the archives. Thank you.
Eric Kallio
#518 finishing up the tailcone
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=45513#45513
________________________________________________________________________________
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 07, 2006
Subject: Re: Flap position sensor
Photos attached of my POS 12 mount. I used 2 pieces of .032 angle, one
screwed to the tunnel wall and one pop-riveted to the flap actuator. I connected
them with a piece of threated model aircraft pushrod with a brass clevis on one
end and a Z bend on the other.
You can also see the flap switch I installed for my Advanced Flight Systems
AOA Sport systems.
-Jim McGrew
40134
In a message dated 7/6/2006 9:42:21 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
rsipp(at)earthlink.net writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp"
I would like to hear from anyone who has mounted a Ray Allan flap position
sensor (POS 12) on the flap system to drive a Ray Allan LED indicator. A
picture or description of where and how you mounted it would be most
appreciated.
Thanks
Dick Sipp
40065
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <jim(at)CombsFive.Com>
Date: Jul 07, 2006
Subject: Re: Elevator trim servo
9 volt rectangular battery works just fine.
Use the two unmarked leads of the servo.
Swap the leads to change direction.
The servo will stop on it's own when travel limits are reached.
Note: The left and right trim tabs move different amounts.
Jim Combs
40192
===========================================================
I have a question for the group. I am finishing up section 12 and am to the point
of adjusting the elevator trim tab servo. The instructions say to move the
servo are through the necessary range of motion (don't have my plans available
right now to get the exact wording). My question is what kind of power sources
have been used to motor the servo, or what other method has been used? I would
appreciate any assistance and suggestions on this matter as I wasn't able to
track down much through the archives. Thank you.
Eric Kallio
#518 finishing up the tailcone
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=45513#45513
===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Jul 07, 2006
Subject: Elevator trim servo
In addition to the answers you already received, I believe several
people in the past simply used a 9 volt battery. I think I used a auto
battery charger.
Michael Sausen
RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric_Kallio
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 12:52 PM
I have a question for the group. I am finishing up section 12 and am to
the point of adjusting the elevator trim tab servo. The instructions say
to move the servo are through the necessary range of motion (don't have
my plans available right now to get the exact wording). My question is
what kind of power sources have been used to motor the servo, or what
other method has been used? I would appreciate any assistance and
suggestions on this matter as I wasn't able to track down much through
the archives. Thank you.
Eric Kallio
#518 finishing up the tailcone
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=45513#45513
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jchang10" <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com>
Date: Jul 07, 2006
Subject: New (sort of) Builder and Wing Build Questions
Hi Everyone,
I just discovered the matronics rv-10 list, and thought I would add my name to
the forum. I had been using the search engine for some time, but for some reason,
did not realize the list was still active. Some of the names here are pretty
familiar to me (especially Tim Olson's) thru builder websites, which are pure
gold for newbies like me.
However, while browsing some of the builder sites, I noticed many are adding leading
edge lights and wiring conduit while assembling the ribs. I am still countersinking
the main spars, but the ribs are next. I do want LE lights and probably
wiring conduit.
LE lights. Should I order these now? I am hoping to order with halogen bulbs with
the option to upgrade to HID in the future? Should I install the lights along
with the ribs?
Conduit. I didn't get any in the kit, and i don't think it's on the parts list.
Van's catalog has Nylon wiring conduit as part # DUCT NT5/8, but it says it's
included in the wiring kit!? Should I be ordering this too while building the
wings?
Fuel caps. Also, has anyone ordered the lockable fuel caps? I was just at Van's
a couple weeks ago for a demo flight, and noticed the deluxe and lockable fuel
caps on the counter. I wish I had inspected them more carefully, but the upgrade
seems nice to have - esp. if it's lockable.
Thank you for the advice!
Jae
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=45536#45536
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net>
Date: Jul 07, 2006
Subject: Re: New (sort of) Builder and Wing Build Questions
---- jchang10 wrote:
> However, while browsing some of the builder sites, I noticed many are adding
leading edge lights and wiring conduit while assembling the ribs. I am still countersinking
the main spars, but the ribs are next. I do want LE lights and probably
wiring conduit.
> LE lights. Should I order these now? I am hoping to order with halogen bulbs
with the option to upgrade to HID in the future? Should I install the lights along
with the ribs?
I have Duckworks leading edge lights on both wings in my RV-7A and for my $0.02
I don't think they are as good a solution as the wingtip lights in the -10 kit.
Lotsa work to install, impossible to get a completely smooth surface transition,
the lenses are easy to scratch when you are wiping bug hits off the leading
edge, and they get whacked with FOD and crack (have one needing replacement
currently). Light dispersion pattern isn't really any better than the wingtip
lights if you mount them in either of the 2 most outboard bays. Other than
that they are wonderful ;-).
> Conduit. I didn't get any in the kit, and i don't think it's on the parts list.
Van's catalog has Nylon wiring conduit as part # DUCT NT5/8, but it says it's
included in the wiring kit!? Should I be ordering this too while building the
wings?
Van's flex conduit is easy to snake around various places, and has the benefit
that it will more or less latch itself into a 7/8 inch hole in a rib and not need
to be lashed to stay put. You can order it separately from the web store;
no need to get a whole wiring kit to get some.
YMMV,
-Dan Masys
40448 finish kit & panel. Autopilot harness just fabricated, installed and it
works!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Jul 07, 2006
Subject: Re: New (sort of) Builder and Wing Build Questions
jchang10 wrote:
>
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I just discovered the matronics rv-10 list, and thought I would add
> my name to the forum. I had been using the search engine for some
> time, but for some reason, did not realize the list was still active.
> Some of the names here are pretty familiar to me (especially Tim
> Olson's) thru builder websites, which are pure gold for newbies like
> me.
>
> However, while browsing some of the builder sites, I noticed many are
> adding leading edge lights and wiring conduit while assembling the
> ribs. I am still countersinking the main spars, but the ribs are
> next. I do want LE lights and probably wiring conduit.
>
> LE lights. Should I order these now? I am hoping to order with
> halogen bulbs with the option to upgrade to HID in the future? Should
> I install the lights along with the ribs?
>
Jae, I think it would be easiest to install them either after
the wing is built, or after the leading edge is built at least.
You could order them, but I wouldn't start installing them
until then.
> Conduit. I didn't get any in the kit, and i don't think it's on the
> parts list. Van's catalog has Nylon wiring conduit as part # DUCT
> NT5/8, but it says it's included in the wiring kit!? Should I be
> ordering this too while building the wings?
>
I don't know what comes in the wiring kit regarding conduit,
but it's pretty cheap, and it's pretty nice stuff for doing the
wings. A 25' roll will take care of you.
-Tim
> Fuel caps. Also, has anyone ordered the lockable fuel caps? I was
> just at Van's a couple weeks ago for a demo flight, and noticed the
> deluxe and lockable fuel caps on the counter. I wish I had inspected
> them more carefully, but the upgrade seems nice to have - esp. if
> it's lockable.
>
> Thank you for the advice!
>
> Jae
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Date: Jul 08, 2006
Subject: Re: Flap position sensor
Jim those stick on things that hold the wires ...what are they called as
I cant seem to find them out here in OZ
regards Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 4:48 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap position sensor
Photos attached of my POS 12 mount. I used 2 pieces of .032 angle, one
screwed to the tunnel wall and one pop-riveted to the flap actuator. I
connected them with a piece of threated model aircraft pushrod with a
brass clevis on one end and a Z bend on the other.
You can also see the flap switch I installed for my Advanced Flight
Systems AOA Sport systems.
-Jim McGrew
40134
In a message dated 7/6/2006 9:42:21 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
rsipp(at)earthlink.net writes:
I would like to hear from anyone who has mounted a Ray Allan flap
position
sensor (POS 12) on the flap system to drive a Ray Allan LED
indicator. A
picture or description of where and how you mounted it would be most
appreciated.
Thanks
Dick Sipp
40065
=========================
es Day
-->
=========================
=========================
- NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
=========================
p; - List Contribution Web Site
=========================
=========================
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jul 07, 2006
Subject: Re: Elevator trim servo
Eric,
I picked up a 12 volt 1000 Mah DC power supply from Radio Shack. It was like $20.
I have used it to operate and test all the electrical items I have installed
to date to include lights, strobes, flap motor, trim servos, trim relays and
it even kicks over the main battery relays. Pick up a set of aligator clips and
install them on the leads. Very easy and cheap way to ops check things as you
go.
Rick S.
40185
Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net>
Date: Jul 07, 2006
Subject: Re: New (sort of) Builder and Wing Build Questions
I can tell you my approach....The landing lights I am planning on are the
wing tip mounted type, so I am not buying them until the wings are mounted
to the fuse. I did not run a conduit (I may regret this) but so far I have
had no problems pulling wires through the snap bushing by reaching through
the inspection plates. I can definitively tell you that the lockable deluxe
fuel caps are a good deal. I did not install them on my tanks and I really
wish I had. I have installed them for several clients and they are much
nicer hardware....worth an extra $100.00. Small change in the scope of this
project.
Cheers..
Evan Johnson
www.evansaviationproducts.com
(530)247-0375
(530)351-1776 cell
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 12:29 PM
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I just discovered the matronics rv-10 list, and thought I would add my
name to the forum. I had been using the search engine for some time, but for
some reason, did not realize the list was still active. Some of the names
here are pretty familiar to me (especially Tim Olson's) thru builder
websites, which are pure gold for newbies like me.
>
> However, while browsing some of the builder sites, I noticed many are
adding leading edge lights and wiring conduit while assembling the ribs. I
am still countersinking the main spars, but the ribs are next. I do want LE
lights and probably wiring conduit.
>
> LE lights. Should I order these now? I am hoping to order with halogen
bulbs with the option to upgrade to HID in the future? Should I install the
lights along with the ribs?
>
> Conduit. I didn't get any in the kit, and i don't think it's on the parts
list. Van's catalog has Nylon wiring conduit as part # DUCT NT5/8, but it
says it's included in the wiring kit!? Should I be ordering this too while
building the wings?
>
> Fuel caps. Also, has anyone ordered the lockable fuel caps? I was just at
Van's a couple weeks ago for a demo flight, and noticed the deluxe and
lockable fuel caps on the counter. I wish I had inspected them more
carefully, but the upgrade seems nice to have - esp. if it's lockable.
>
> Thank you for the advice!
>
> Jae
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=45536#45536
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jul 07, 2006
Subject: Re: Flap position sensor
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dunne" <acs(at)acspropeller.com.au>
Date: Jul 08, 2006
Subject: Flap position sensor
Chris I didn't see the original post but if you're referring to the stick on
cable blocks that are used in conjunction with the cable ties to tidy up
your electrical wiring,
I found the only place to have them was the big auto barns, at least in
Brisbane anyway.
John 40315
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris , Susie
Darcy
Sent: Saturday, 8 July 2006 7:20 AM
Jim those stick on things that hold the wires ...what are they called as I
cant seem to find them out here in OZ
regards Chris
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 4:48 AM
Photos attached of my POS 12 mount. I used 2 pieces of .032 angle, one
screwed to the tunnel wall and one pop-riveted to the flap actuator. I
connected them with a piece of threated model aircraft pushrod with a brass
clevis on one end and a Z bend on the other.
You can also see the flap switch I installed for my Advanced Flight Systems
AOA Sport systems.
-Jim McGrew
40134
In a message dated 7/6/2006 9:42:21 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
rsipp(at)earthlink.net writes:
I would like to hear from anyone who has mounted a Ray Allan flap position
sensor (POS 12) on the flap system to drive a Ray Allan LED indicator. A
picture or description of where and how you mounted it would be most
appreciated.
Thanks
Dick Sipp
40065 ========================= es Day
--> =================================================
-> =========================p; - List Contribution Web Site
=================================================
_____
_____
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Jul 07, 2006
Subject: Flap position sensor
Be advised that you need to get versions that use industrial adhesive.
The kind that you get from a home store have a tendency to let go after
a while. Not something you want to have happen in an area of a lot of
moving parts.
Michael
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Dunne
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 5:39 PM
Chris I didn't see the original post but if you're referring to the
stick on cable blocks that are used in conjunction with the cable ties
to tidy up your electrical wiring,
I found the only place to have them was the big auto barns, at least in
Brisbane anyway.
John 40315
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris , Susie
Darcy
Sent: Saturday, 8 July 2006 7:20 AM
Jim those stick on things that hold the wires ...what are they called as
I cant seem to find them out here in OZ
regards Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 4:48 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap position sensor
Photos attached of my POS 12 mount. I used 2 pieces of .032
angle, one screwed to the tunnel wall and one pop-riveted to the flap
actuator. I connected them with a piece of threated model aircraft
pushrod with a brass clevis on one end and a Z bend on the other.
You can also see the flap switch I installed for my Advanced
Flight Systems AOA Sport systems.
-Jim McGrew
40134
In a message dated 7/6/2006 9:42:21 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
rsipp(at)earthlink.net writes:
I would like to hear from anyone who has mounted a Ray
Allan flap position
sensor (POS 12) on the flap system to drive a Ray Allan
LED indicator. A
picture or description of where and how you mounted it
would be most
appreciated.
Thanks
Dick Sipp
40065
=========================
es Day
-->
=========================
=========================
->
=========================
p; - List Contribution Web Site
=========================
=========================
________________________________
________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Franz" <cfranz10121(at)chartermi.net>
Date: Jul 07, 2006
Subject: IO-540 Engine Question
Jim,
The intake tubes are swaged into the crankcase. There is a tool
that can re-swage the induction tubes, improving the retention, but an
application of proseal around the joint will help prevent induction leaks.
When I rebuilt my O-360 I found a similar condition on two of the four
tubes. My local Lycon shop fixed the problem for about twenty bucks. Carl
Franz N410FS (reserved), N215CF RV-6 flying
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 8:56 PM
I have a used IO-540 engine and today I removed the intake / induction tubes
that run from the sides of the oil sump up to the cylinders.
Down at the oil sump there is a flexible hose that joins the metal tubes
together. After removing the tubes I noticed that three of the six stubs
coming out of the oil sump were loose and could be moved in and out about an
1/8 inch. I talked to a local EAA member and he said the tubes were
"rolled" in order to slightly expand them and hold them in place.
So the questions are:
(1) Do I need to get / borrow a tool to roll these again? (2) Can this be
done while the sump is attached?
(3) What about using a sealant (Fuel tank sealant comes to mind) to seal up
the tubes to the oil sump vs "rolling" them again?
Also, Where is a good place to order gaskets? I would like to replace the
valve cover gaskets while I am cleaning up the outside. Need new cylinder
intake gaskets as well.
I have ordered manuals for the engine from Lycoming but they are not here
yet. I need to get part numbers.
Thanks,
Jim Combs
N40192
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu>
Date: Jul 07, 2006
Subject: Re: IO-540 Engine Question
When I rebuilt my IO-540 I had several loose induction tubes. My IA
said to send it to Divco for repair. As I recall, I had to replace one
tube and get 3 tightened so they wouldn't rotate (and leak air). Cost,
including inspection, repair, part, and return shipping, was about $180.
Tim
Carl Franz wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
> The intake tubes are swaged into the crankcase. There is a tool
> that can re-swage the induction tubes, improving the retention, but an
> application of proseal around the joint will help prevent induction leaks.
> When I rebuilt my O-360 I found a similar condition on two of the four
> tubes. My local Lycon shop fixed the problem for about twenty bucks. Carl
> Franz N410FS (reserved), N215CF RV-6 flying
>
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim(at)CombsFive.Com
> Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 8:56 PM
>
>
>
> I have a used IO-540 engine and today I removed the intake / induction tubes
> that run from the sides of the oil sump up to the cylinders.
>
> Down at the oil sump there is a flexible hose that joins the metal tubes
> together. After removing the tubes I noticed that three of the six stubs
> coming out of the oil sump were loose and could be moved in and out about an
> 1/8 inch. I talked to a local EAA member and he said the tubes were
> "rolled" in order to slightly expand them and hold them in place.
>
> So the questions are:
>
> (1) Do I need to get / borrow a tool to roll these again? (2) Can this be
> done while the sump is attached?
> (3) What about using a sealant (Fuel tank sealant comes to mind) to seal up
> the tubes to the oil sump vs "rolling" them again?
>
> Also, Where is a good place to order gaskets? I would like to replace the
> valve cover gaskets while I am cleaning up the outside. Need new cylinder
> intake gaskets as well.
>
> I have ordered manuals for the engine from Lycoming but they are not here
> yet. I need to get part numbers.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim Combs
> N40192
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 07, 2006
Subject: Re: Flap position sensor
I buy the cable tie mounting bases from Stein Air.
_http://www.steinair.com/cableties.htm_ (http://www.steinair.com/cableties.htm)
Jim
In a message dated 7/7/2006 3:23:45 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
VHMUM(at)bigpond.com writes:
Jim those stick on things that hold the wires ...what are they called as I
cant seem to find them out here in OZ
regards Chris
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 4:48 AM
Photos attached of my POS 12 mount. I used 2 pieces of .032 angle, one
screwed to the tunnel wall and one pop-riveted to the flap actuator. I connected
them with a piece of threated model aircraft pushrod with a brass clevis on
one end and a Z bend on the other.
You can also see the flap switch I installed for my Advanced Flight Systems
AOA Sport systems.
-Jim McGrew
40134
In a message dated 7/6/2006 9:42:21 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
rsipp(at)earthlink.net writes:
I would like to hear from anyone who has mounted a Ray Allan flap position
sensor (POS 12) on the flap system to drive a Ray Allan LED indicator. A
picture or description of where and how you mounted it would be most
appreciated.
Thanks
Dick Sipp
40065 ========================= es Day
--> ================================================== ->
=========================p; - List Contribution Web Site
=================================================
____________________________________
____________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Harris, Jeremy P" <jeremy.p.harris(at)boeing.com>
Date: Jul 07, 2006
Subject: Flap position sensor
We mounted ours in the tunnel near the flap torque tube. We attached a
bell crank/control horn fabricated from some light AL angle and held
onto the torque tube with a pipe clamp so no additional holes were
drilled in the torque tube. The horn was then linked via 1/4 scale
(large) RC aircraft push rod to the 1.2" throw Ray allen potentiometer.
The ray allen potentiometer was mounted on another peice of angle on the
side wall of the inside of the tunnel. You'll have to work the geometry
out to get the correct throw on the control horn mounted to the torque
tube. We got about 1/4-1/3" up the horn from the surface of the tube to
get the 1.2" of throw for full flap movement. There's some pics on the
website but they aren't very good. Hope this helps.
Jeremy
http://jharris.net/Aviation/RV_10.htm if you go about 3/4 down the
page, click on the picture of the tunnel. The sensor and brackets are
on the bottom of the pic (starboard side of airplane).
http://jharris.net/Aviation/Flap%20Position%20Sensors.JPG
Jeremy P. Harris
Ground Based Mid-Course Defense
WSOPS Engineering
The Boeing Company
Washington, DC
Desk: (703) 414-6057
Office: 825B
Huntsville, AL
Desk (256) 464-4530
Cube: 1225
Cell: (703) 627-6500
Fax: (703) 414-6372
MC: 793C-G007
________________________________
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 5:20 PM
Jim those stick on things that hold the wires ...what are they called as
I cant seem to find them out here in OZ
regards Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 4:48 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap position sensor
Photos attached of my POS 12 mount. I used 2 pieces of .032
angle, one screwed to the tunnel wall and one pop-riveted to the flap
actuator. I connected them with a piece of threated model aircraft
pushrod with a brass clevis on one end and a Z bend on the other.
You can also see the flap switch I installed for my Advanced
Flight Systems AOA Sport systems.
-Jim McGrew
40134
In a message dated 7/6/2006 9:42:21 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
rsipp(at)earthlink.net writes:
I would like to hear from anyone who has mounted a Ray
Allan flap position
sensor (POS 12) on the flap system to drive a Ray Allan
LED indicator. A
picture or description of where and how you mounted it
would be most
appreciated.
Thanks
Dick Sipp
40065
=========================
es Day
-->
=========================
=========================
->
=========================
p; - List Contribution Web Site
=========================
=========================
________________________________
________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jul 07, 2006
Subject: Re: Flap position sensor
Outstanding Jim, thanks very much.
Dick Sipp
----- Original Message -----
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap position sensor
Photos attached of my POS 12 mount. I used 2 pieces of .032 angle, one
screwed to the tunnel wall and one pop-riveted to the flap actuator. I
connected them with a piece of threated model aircraft pushrod with a
brass clevis on one end and a Z bend on the other.
You can also see the flap switch I installed for my Advanced Flight
Systems AOA Sport systems.
-Jim McGrew
40134
In a message dated 7/6/2006 9:42:21 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
rsipp(at)earthlink.net writes:
I would like to hear from anyone who has mounted a Ray Allan flap
position
sensor (POS 12) on the flap system to drive a Ray Allan LED
indicator. A
picture or description of where and how you mounted it would be most
appreciated.
Thanks
Dick Sipp
40065
=========================
es Day
-->
=========================
=========================
- NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
=========================
p; - List Contribution Web Site
=========================
=========================
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jchang10" <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com>
Date: Jul 07, 2006
Subject: Re: New (sort of) Builder and Wing Build Questions
Thanks everyone for the replies. It's amazing how much one can swing back and forth
on some of these options - hopefully, it's not just me! ;)
It looks like i'll be ordering the conduit from Van's. as far as i can see, it
looks like there is plenty of room to drill the conduit holes even after the ribs
are riveted.
I am going to have to think some more on the lights, but it sounds like i have
time.
Thanks again for the insights!
Jae
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=45641#45641
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net>
Date: Jul 09, 2006
Subject: New (sort of) Builder and Wing Build Questions
---- "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" wrote:
> Dan,
>
> Did you have the HID lights or just standard halogen for the Duckworks? I
would agree with you on the halogen's but it would be interesting to hear that
the stock -10 halogens are better than the HID's. They throw way more light
than any halogen.
My -7A has the halogen bulbs; built in 2003 when there was no HID option.
> Incidentally, I checked my log and spent 5.5 hours installing both the Duckworks
HID and the AOA ports. I also installed the nutplates in the other wing
for a second HID light should I want two. Much easier to put them in ahead of
time but you need the template that comes with the kit.
The hardest part on the -7A was pulling the lens snugly against the curve of the
leading edge while drilling the mounting holes. Too loose and there is a gap
right at the leading edge. Too tight and your lenses crack in the first hundred
flight hours or so. Been there, done that for both conditions!
-Dan Masys
#40448 finish kit
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net>
Date: Jul 08, 2006
Subject: Mounting the engine
I'm feeling a little pumped tonight in that we got the engine mounted
today, picture attached. Other than wanting to toot our horn I wanted to
pass along what experience we had in mounting the engine.
I have a friend from Iowa who came down this weekend to help me install
the engine. He is an A&P and runs a small airport just outside of Des
Moines. So when I say we, I actually should probably be saying he, since
he did the bulk of the thinking on this, since he's done this many
times.
Anyway we began by attaching the upper two mounts, because he said that
this method normal works the best. But in doing this we ran into a
problem where we couldn't seem to get the bottom two mounts aligned to
get the bolts in. I had remembered reading something about this on Tim
Olson's web site and so I pulled out the instructions he had on his web
site from my file and Walla, he had experienced the same problem.
The solution that he found that worked for him was to attach the lower
two mounts first and the work on the upper mounts. So we tried this
method and it work on the first try. Thanks Tim, I might still be out
there had I not read that tip. It only took us about 1 1/2 to 2 hours to
have the engine mounted even with the false start. So, based on our
experience, and Tim's, I would suggest using this method when installing
your engine.
Wayne Edgerton $40336
putting on the prop tomorrow
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Jul 08, 2006
Subject: Re: New (sort of) Builder and Wing Build Questions
Dan,
I'm not sure if yours is the old or the new style lens and
retainer, but the lens in the new ones isn't drilled
at all, but is kind of floating trapped. It's not the
easiest to pull the lens in place, but once it's there, it's
probably not going to crack easily, and should be
pretty good. The only gap is there because of a small
amount of foam seal, but the gap is pretty small. For
people doing HIDS, the chance that you'll be pulling
the lens to replace a lamp is much much smaller anyway.
So, if you have the old style, you may have had more
troubles. I heard those cracked lenses all the time.
But, that's the old way.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Dan Masys wrote:
>
>
> ---- "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" wrote:
>
>> Dan,
>>
>> Did you have the HID lights or just standard halogen for the
>> Duckworks? I would agree with you on the halogen's but it would be
>> interesting to hear that the stock -10 halogens are better than the
>> HID's. They throw way more light than any halogen.
>
> My -7A has the halogen bulbs; built in 2003 when there was no HID
> option.
>
>> Incidentally, I checked my log and spent 5.5 hours installing both
>> the Duckworks HID and the AOA ports. I also installed the nutplates
>> in the other wing for a second HID light should I want two. Much
>> easier to put them in ahead of time but you need the template that
>> comes with the kit.
>
> The hardest part on the -7A was pulling the lens snugly against the
> curve of the leading edge while drilling the mounting holes. Too
> loose and there is a gap right at the leading edge. Too tight and
> your lenses crack in the first hundred flight hours or so. Been
> there, done that for both conditions!
>
> -Dan Masys #40448 finish kit
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Jul 09, 2006
Subject: Re: New (sort of) Builder and Wing Build Questions
Drill the conduit holes before you assemble the wing skeleton! I at least
doubled the amount of time doing it on the QB wings. Just not enough easy
clearance for my tools.
Rob #392
QB Wings
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jchang10
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 11:53 PM
Thanks everyone for the replies. It's amazing how much one can swing back
and forth on some of these options - hopefully, it's not just me! ;)
It looks like i'll be ordering the conduit from Van's. as far as i can see,
it looks like there is plenty of room to drill the conduit holes even after
the ribs are riveted.
I am going to have to think some more on the lights, but it sounds like i
have time.
Thanks again for the insights!
Jae
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=45641#45641
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dennis mangan" <dennis_mangan(at)msn.com>
Date: Jul 09, 2006
Subject: Re: New (sort of) Builder and Wing Build Questions
Drip irrigation tubing 5/8 makes excellent wire channel. it is smooth
inside and out and is extremely lite
Dennis Mangan
109DM
RV-6a
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert G. Wright<mailto:armywrights(at)adelphia.net>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 6:41 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: New (sort of) Builder and Wing Build
Questions
>
Drill the conduit holes before you assemble the wing skeleton! I at
least
doubled the amount of time doing it on the QB wings. Just not enough
easy
clearance for my tools.
Rob #392
QB Wings
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jchang10
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 11:53 PM
>
Thanks everyone for the replies. It's amazing how much one can swing
back
and forth on some of these options - hopefully, it's not just me! ;)
It looks like i'll be ordering the conduit from Van's. as far as i can
see,
it looks like there is plenty of room to drill the conduit holes even
after
the ribs are riveted.
I am going to have to think some more on the lights, but it sounds
like i
have time.
Thanks again for the insights!
Jae
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=45641#45641
atronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=45641#45641>
=========================
==========
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
igator?RV10-List>
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
=========================
==========
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bobby J. Hughes" <bhughes(at)qnsi.net>
Date: Jul 09, 2006
Subject: Wheel Fairings Question for those who have completed these
steps
A question for those who have installed the Wheel Fairings. Is the
vertical line on the rear fairing marked in 48-2 fig 4 actually vertical
in flight attitude as referenced in 48-6 fig 2? Or is the top of the
vertical line actually kicked outboard at the top of the fairing in 48-6
fig 2?
48-5 fig3 and 48-7 fig1 seem to indicated it would be kicked outboard.
Thanks,
Bobby Hughes
40116
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
Date: Jul 10, 2006
Subject: Flap position sensor
Chris - these are readily available from Dick Smith outlets. I soak
them in toluene to remove the adhesive and proseal them to the
skins/ribs/bulkheads. They ain't going anywhere.
cheers,
Ron
#187 wiring
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris , Susie
Darcy
Sent: Saturday, 8 July 2006 6:50 AM
Jim those stick on things that hold the wires ...what are they called as
I cant seem to find them out here in OZ
regards Chris
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 4:48 AM
Photos attached of my POS 12 mount. I used 2 pieces of .032 angle, one
screwed to the tunnel wall and one pop-riveted to the flap actuator. I
connected them with a piece of threated model aircraft pushrod with a
brass clevis on one end and a Z bend on the other.
You can also see the flap switch I installed for my Advanced Flight
Systems AOA Sport systems.
-Jim McGrew
40134
In a message dated 7/6/2006 9:42:21 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
rsipp(at)earthlink.net writes:
I would like to hear from anyone who has mounted a Ray Allan flap
position
sensor (POS 12) on the flap system to drive a Ray Allan LED indicator.
A
picture or description of where and how you mounted it would be most
appreciated.
Thanks
Dick Sipp
40065
=========================
es Day
-->
=========================
=========================
->
=========================
p; - List Contribution Web Site
=========================
=========================
_____
_____
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Testement" <jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com>
Date: Jul 09, 2006
Subject: Re: New (sort of) Builder and Wing Build Questions
I drilled out the smaller holes along the rear spar to run my strobe wire -
and keep it away from the other wires in the conduit. This would have been
MUCH easier if the skin were not on yet.
John Testement
jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com
40321
Richmond, VA
Engine mount and gear
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert G. Wright
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 9:41 AM
-->
Drill the conduit holes before you assemble the wing skeleton! I at least
doubled the amount of time doing it on the QB wings. Just not enough easy
clearance for my tools.
Rob #392
QB Wings
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jchang10
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 11:53 PM
-->
Thanks everyone for the replies. It's amazing how much one can swing back
and forth on some of these options - hopefully, it's not just me! ;)
It looks like i'll be ordering the conduit from Van's. as far as i can see,
it looks like there is plenty of room to drill the conduit holes even after
the ribs are riveted.
I am going to have to think some more on the lights, but it sounds like i
have time.
Thanks again for the insights!
Jae
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=45641#45641
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Date: Jul 10, 2006
Subject: Re: Flap position sensor
Thanks Ron will have a look .
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: McGANN, Ron
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 8:57 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap position sensor
Chris - these are readily available from Dick Smith outlets. I soak
them in toluene to remove the adhesive and proseal them to the
skins/ribs/bulkheads. They ain't going anywhere.
cheers,
Ron
#187 wiring
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris , Susie
Darcy
Sent: Saturday, 8 July 2006 6:50 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap position sensor
Jim those stick on things that hold the wires ...what are they
called as I cant seem to find them out here in OZ
regards Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 4:48 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap position sensor
Photos attached of my POS 12 mount. I used 2 pieces of .032 angle,
one screwed to the tunnel wall and one pop-riveted to the flap actuator.
I connected them with a piece of threated model aircraft pushrod with a
brass clevis on one end and a Z bend on the other.
You can also see the flap switch I installed for my Advanced
Flight Systems AOA Sport systems.
-Jim McGrew
40134
In a message dated 7/6/2006 9:42:21 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
rsipp(at)earthlink.net writes:
I would like to hear from anyone who has mounted a Ray Allan
flap position
sensor (POS 12) on the flap system to drive a Ray Allan LED
indicator. A
picture or description of where and how you mounted it would be
most
appreciated.
Thanks
Dick Sipp
40065
=========================
es Day
-->
=========================
=========================
->
=========================
p; - List Contribution Web Site
=========================
=========================
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Chris Hukill <cjhukill(at)cox.net>
Date: Jul 10, 2006
Subject: RV10 rack
Ed
Sorry it took a while to respond, as I just got home from vacation.
This is the best picture I have of the rack handy, but it shows that
the wood between the main spars is used to mount to the rack, and
supports it in any position you need, if you have a lifting device. The
supports attaching to the step receptacles are there for when I attach
the tailcone primarily, as the fuselage is pretty much balanced on just
the spars. I made the rack low, so it can roll under things , but I
place jackstands under the lower rails when working on the plane in the
normal level position. I can easily roll under it with a creaper when
needed.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net>
Date: Jul 10, 2006
Subject: Re: Wheel Fairings Question for those who have completed
---- Tim Olson wrote:
> My plane flew almost perfect with no rudder correction before I added
> wheel fairings. I put the fairings on and they weren't aligned as
> good as I wanted...they were toed out. I re-worked them to try to
> correct it. Ended up still not perfect. Now the ball is something
> like 1/2-3/4 out to the right when flying. Had to add a rudder
> block for the time being.
If the -10 has similar aerodynamic forces to the 2 place RV's, it will be the alignment
of the gear leg fairings that is more important even than the wheel fairings.
Seems counterintuitive given their sizes, but the positioning of the
gear leg fairings up in the prop disc airflow makes them pretty efficient flight
control surfaces. You can get more effect on the centering of the ball by
playing with a quarter to half inch of movement of the trailing edge of the leg
fairing than an inch or more of repositioning of the wheel fairing trailing
edge.
Try it. You might like it :-).
That said, I also have a permanent wedge on the rudder of my -7A. :-(
-Dan Masys
40448
________________________________________________________________________________
From: todd agold <t_agold(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jul 10, 2006
Subject: torque tube support attach to wing root rib
Group,
Has anyone run into the problem of the rear aileron torque tube support brackets
interfering with the bead in the forward most lightening hole of the wing root
ribs?
Thanks
Todd
#362
---------------------------------
at 1/min.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vern W. Smith" <Vern(at)teclabsinc.com>
Date: Jul 10, 2006
Subject: New (sort of) Builder and Wing Build Questions
Hi Jae,
Welcome to the group! Something to think about is the locking gas caps
will only keep the honest ones out. If someone really wants your fuel
they will just pull the drain valve at the bottom of the tank and drain
it into a container.
It also may be worth thinking about running a spare conduit out to the
wing tips. It doesn't add much weight and may come in handy if you
decide to run a wing tip antenna later.
Vern
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jchang10
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 12:30 PM
Conduit. I didn't get any in the kit, and i don't think it's on the
parts list. Van's catalog has Nylon wiring conduit as part # DUCT NT5/8,
but it says it's included in the wiring kit!? Should I be ordering this
too while building the wings?
Fuel caps. Also, has anyone ordered the lockable fuel caps? I was just
at Van's a couple weeks ago for a demo flight, and noticed the deluxe
and lockable fuel caps on the counter. I wish I had inspected them more
carefully, but the upgrade seems nice to have - esp. if it's lockable.
Thank you for the advice!
Jae
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=45536#45536
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jul 10, 2006
Subject: Re: torque tube support attach to wing root rib
Todd,
Yes, You have to cut it back to open up the space.
Even the hinge gets cut back a little. Factory plane
has this mod, so does every other flying plane I have
seen. Van's changed the opening from rectangle to
teardrop at some build #. It would be nice if they
sent out a revision notice as it would be much easier
to fix when you have the rear spar on the bench as
opposed to riveted to the wing.
If you search back I had more detail about this about
6-9 months ago. Bottom line is if you have a
retangular opening in your wing rear spar for your
aileron push tube you will need to widen the opening
for clearance.
Another area where I have noticed clearance issues is
between the small landing gear front tube and one of
the seat supports. If you don't increase dia of the
existing opening then the tube wll rub against the
support and wear thru the powdercoat into the metal.
Overall, I think we are spoiled that everything fits
so well... :)
Eric
#40150
--- todd agold wrote:
> Group,
>
> Has anyone run into the problem of the rear aileron
> torque tube support brackets interfering with the
> bead in the forward most lightening hole of the wing
> root ribs?
>
> Thanks
>
> Todd
> #362
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make
________________________________________________________________________________
From: todd agold <t_agold(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jul 10, 2006
Subject: Re: torque tube support attach to wing root rib
Eric,
Thanks for the reply, but I'm referring to a different issue. See picture...
Todd
#362
Eric Panning wrote:
Todd,
Yes, You have to cut it back to open up the space.
Even the hinge gets cut back a little. Factory plane
has this mod, so does every other flying plane I have
seen. Van's changed the opening from rectangle to
teardrop at some build #. It would be nice if they
sent out a revision notice as it would be much easier
to fix when you have the rear spar on the bench as
opposed to riveted to the wing.
If you search back I had more detail about this about
6-9 months ago. Bottom line is if you have a
retangular opening in your wing rear spar for your
aileron push tube you will need to widen the opening
for clearance.
Another area where I have noticed clearance issues is
between the small landing gear front tube and one of
the seat supports. If you don't increase dia of the
existing opening then the tube wll rub against the
support and wear thru the powdercoat into the metal.
Overall, I think we are spoiled that everything fits
so well... :)
Eric
#40150
--- todd agold wrote:
> Group,
>
> Has anyone run into the problem of the rear aileron
> torque tube support brackets interfering with the
> bead in the forward most lightening hole of the wing
> root ribs?
>
> Thanks
>
> Todd
> #362
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Date: Jul 10, 2006
Subject: torque tube support attach to wing root rib
I am not 100% sure, I will look tonight, but I think I had to shape that
piece in order to get it to fit flat on the rib.
Rene' Felker
40322
N423CF
Finish Kit....going slow :-(
_____
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of todd agold
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 11:28 AM
Eric,
Thanks for the reply, but I'm referring to a different issue. See
picture...
Todd
#362
Eric Panning wrote:
Todd,
Yes, You have to cut it back to open up the space.
Even the hinge gets cut back a little. Factory plane
has this mod, so does every other flying plane I have
seen. Van's changed the opening from rectangle to
teardrop at some build #. It would be nice if they
sent out a revision notice as it would be much easier
to fix when you have the rear spar on the bench as
opposed to riveted to the wing.
If you search back I had more detail about this about
6-9 months ago. Bottom line is if you have a
retangular opening in your wing rear spar for your
aileron push tube you will need to widen the opening
for clearance.
Another area where I have noticed clearance issues is
between the small landing gear front tube and one of
the seat supports. If you don't increase dia of the
existing opening then the tube wll rub against the
support and wear thru the powdercoat into the metal.
Overall, I think we are spoiled that everything fits
so well... :)
Eric
#40150
--- todd agold wrote:
> Group,
>
> Has anyone run into the problem of the rear aileron
> torque tube support brackets interfering with the
> bead in the forward most lightening hole of the wing
> root ribs?
>
> Thanks
>
>
_____
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try
<http://pa.yahoo.com/*http:/us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=36035/*http:/music.yahoo.com
/unlimited/%20%0d%0a> it free.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: rv10(at)tpg.com.au
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: Re: torque tube support attach to wing root rib
Hey Todd,
Just did this a couple of days ago and also sat scratching my head for some time
after striking the
same problem. I also spent some time searching through the lists thinking "Surely
someone else
has had this problem!!" In the end I ground the bottom of the support brackets
back to provide
clearance at which point they sat in there semi-nicely (still had headaches getting
the holes
common to the flanges even close to lining up).
Have fun,
Scott Lewis
RV-10 40172
Adelaide, South Australia
Quoting todd agold :
> Group,
>
> Has anyone run into the problem of the rear aileron torque tube
> support brackets interfering with the bead in the forward most
> lightening hole of the wing root ribs?
>
> Thanks
>
> Todd
> #362
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jul 10, 2006
Subject: Re: torque tube support attach to wing root rib
The old Yahoo list had a bunch of info about this but alas it tis gone so for us
old Yahoo guys who remember, this is what I recall:
Some had clearance issues, some didn't, and if you do, it's a VERY LITTLE amount
of interference. My right bracket just interfered (only right) with the bead
so I buffed off the slightest amount of material off the bottom of the bracket
and it worked fine.
Later someone posted that Van's said to flatten the bead slightly to allow the
bracket to sit properly. I know this sounds dumb but make sure the angle is aft
of the bracket and not forward which would make it sit right on top of the bead.
Carefully line up the spacer and bracket to make sure your not to far forward
when you match drill. If the bracket is sitting really high up on the bead,
something is wrong somewhere. You should only have to round the edge of the
bracket a small amount for it to come together correctly.
Rick S.
40185
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <jim(at)CombsFive.Com>
Date: Jul 10, 2006
Subject: Re: torque tube support attach to wing root rib
That problem is common. My kit #40192 had it too.
Van support will tell you to flatten out the rib.
Jim C
===========================================================
Eric,
Thanks for the reply, but I'm referring to a different issue. See picture...
Todd
#362
Eric Panning wrote:
Todd,
Yes, You have to cut it back to open up the space.
Even the hinge gets cut back a little. Factory plane
has this mod, so does every other flying plane I have
seen. Van's changed the opening from rectangle to
teardrop at some build #. It would be nice if they
sent out a revision notice as it would be much easier
to fix when you have the rear spar on the bench as
opposed to riveted to the wing.
If you search back I had more detail about this about
6-9 months ago. Bottom line is if you have a
retangular opening in your wing rear spar for your
aileron push tube you will need to widen the opening
for clearance.
Another area where I have noticed clearance issues is
between the small landing gear front tube and one of
the seat supports. If you don't increase dia of the
existing opening then the tube wll rub against the
support and wear thru the powdercoat into the metal.
Overall, I think we are spoiled that everything fits
so well... :)
Eric
#40150
--- todd agold wrote:
> Group,
>
> Has anyone run into the problem of the rear aileron
> torque tube support brackets interfering with the
> bead in the forward most lightening hole of the wing
> root ribs?
>
> Thanks
>
> Todd
> #362
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.
===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com>
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: Re: torque tube support attach to wing root rib
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robin Marks" <robin(at)mrmoisture.com>
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: Here I go again - console finished
Deems,
Can you give us the rough pricing on the panel and center
console from Aerotronics? Less electronics... It helps me to start
choking early on the panel, motor & prop so that when it's time to write
the check I am already resigned to coughing up the $. Oh and BTY your
panel looks sharp.
Robin Marks
RV-4 Sold
RV-6A 300 Hours
RV-10 Full QB to be delivered this week.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 9:58 AM
Sort of, I saw a pic of the panel on Henkejen's kitlog site, e-mailed
him to find out where he got it, then called Aerotronics, where I talked
to Gary Wirrell, who offered to do a graphic layout to see if it would
fit, (I think he was aiming at selling me more than just the panel),
when he e-mailed back the layout that sort of sealed the deal.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com>
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: Here I go again - console finished
Robin:
Our kit came with a perfectly serviceable panel made of aluminum, God's
favorite material, included in the price! : )
TDT
40025
Painfully slowly working on wiring and firewall forward
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 1:49 PM
Deems,
Can you give us the rough pricing on the panel and center
console from Aerotronics? Less electronics... It helps me to start
choking early on the panel, motor & prop so that when it's time to write
the check I am already resigned to coughing up the $. Oh and BTY your
panel looks sharp.
Robin Marks
RV-4 Sold
RV-6A 300 Hours
RV-10 Full QB to be delivered this week.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 9:58 AM
Sort of, I saw a pic of the panel on Henkejen's kitlog site, e-mailed
him to find out where he got it, then called Aerotronics, where I talked
to Gary Wirrell, who offered to do a graphic layout to see if it would
fit, (I think he was aiming at selling me more than just the panel),
when he e-mailed back the layout that sort of sealed the deal.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: Re: Here I go again - console finished
The Aerotronics panel is $600 (just the fiberglass portion), the Center
console is something that I made myself, I have about $200-250 + into
it for materials. Labor = priceless :-)
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse/Finishing
http://deemsrv10.com/
Robin Marks wrote:
>
>Deems,
> Can you give us the rough pricing on the panel and center
>console from Aerotronics? Less electronics... It helps me to start
>choking early on the panel, motor & prop so that when it's time to write
>the check I am already resigned to coughing up the $. Oh and BTY your
>panel looks sharp.
>
>Robin Marks
>RV-4 Sold
>RV-6A 300 Hours
>RV-10 Full QB to be delivered this week.
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
>Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 9:58 AM
>
>
>Sort of, I saw a pic of the panel on Henkejen's kitlog site, e-mailed
>him to find out where he got it, then called Aerotronics, where I talked
>
>to Gary Wirrell, who offered to do a graphic layout to see if it would
>fit, (I think he was aiming at selling me more than just the panel),
>when he e-mailed back the layout that sort of sealed the deal.
>
>Deems Davis # 406
>Fuse
>http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: Re: RV-10 Builders List / RV-10's to OSH / RV-10 Parking-Camping
Tim, Last year we had set 10:00 am each day as a time where any of the
-10 guys could get together, we met in front of Van's tent. I was able
to meet several of the group at that gathering, and ask questions and
gather advice. Anybody want to repeat this this year? Perhaps we could
meet in front of your plane? Also Cleveland Tool (Mike are you there?)
had an ice cream social one evening at their site, which was another
good group opportunity.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> With less than 2 weeks until OSH, I need to put out another
> post regarding a few topics:
>
> * RV-10 Builder List
> * RV-10's Flying to OSH
> * RV-10 Parking / Camping at OSH
>
> BUILDERS LIST
> -------------
> First, regarding the builder list. I'm both impressed with
> the response, but also surprised. I'm impressed because
> we got over 100 responses and people added on to the builder
> list. Some from last year never responded with their info.
> It was a bit of work, but the list has already made it possible
> for a couple people to meet up who were in the same area.
> I'm kind of surprised, because with 600+ kits sold, and only
> getting just over 100 replies, that means that the huge
> majority is unknown or at least non-responsive or possibly
> not even watching any online groups. If the same ratio of
> responders were to go to OSH in the remaining 500 builders,
> we're going to have over 480 RV-10 builder at OSH this year!!
> I'm also surprised that out of 35+ RV-10's flying, we only
> have 7 for sure, and 9 possible listed as flying to OSH
> on the list. Here I don't think we'll see 5X that number
> show, but if the ratio holds true, we may see at least
> a fair share of the 35.
>
> If you haven't put your name on the list, you can sign up
> here. Remember that you can be on the builders list even
> if you aren't going to OSH:
> http://www.myrv10.com/osh.html
>
> Don't forget if you're going to OSH to list if you're bringing
> kids. I'm really hoping we can have some gatherings of
> families if it works out.
>
> Once you're on the list, you'll get an access code to the
> complete list. To see a list without the contact info,
> look here: http://www.myrv10.com/osh2/index.html
> That one may be less up to date than the full list.
>
> I think the builders who are on the list would tell you that
> there are nice things about being part of the community.
>
>
> FLYING TO OSH
> -------------
> If you're flying your completed RV-10 to OSH, please try
> to put your name on the list....for a couple good reasons.
>
> A) So the other builders can get pumped up a bit
> B) Because the EAA really wants/needs to know our numbers for
> space reasons. (see below)
>
> If you're flying from a Westward direction, or even if
> you want to join in and are coming from the East or South,
> I'd like to invite you to meet me at KLUM for the flight
> over. I am currently planning to fly in Monday a.m., but
> if the overwhelming majority wanted to go Sunday night,
> I might be swayed. Fuel is currently running $3.609 on
> our field, so it's a *more* economical fuel stop.
>
>
> PARKING/CAMPING at OSH
> ----------------------
> After some initial confusion over who was in control of parking
> our planes, I got in contact with Jeff Point, who has it all
> figured out. He's requesting as complete and accurate of
> a -10 count as we can get, and whether they will be camping or
> parking. They are making some larger sized spaces available for
> our larger planes and they really need to know what to allow.
> I will use the RV-10 builders list to give him the final
> headcount that I come up with, and he's hoping to use that, plus
> some good estimation skills to allow enough space. If you're
> bringing a -10, it will help "guarantee" (there is no such thing)
> that an attempt at space is left. The lots we park and camp in
> are notoriously tight on space.
>
> Here is a note from Jeff:
> ---
> "We finally got the RV-10 arrangements figured out. We were up
> at Oshkosh last week taking measurements etc for how we are going
> to lay out the field this year. It's going to be differenet from
> last year in several respects.
>
> The RV-10 campers will be as previously discussed, in their own row
> on the east end of the Homebuilt camping area. Those arrangements
> haven't changed from what you and Kreth worked out. Just as a
> reminder, anyone who parks in the camping area will be assessed the
> $18/ day camping fee, whether they pitch a tent or not. Anyone
> parked in this area but not camping will be asked to park elsewhere.
> This real estate is just to scarce, in the camping area.
>
> The RV-10 parking area (non-camping) will not be adjacent to the
> campers. It will be where it was last year, at the east end of the
> RV parking area, just west of the north commercial displays (where
> Van's tent it.) RV-10ers who are not camping should display the
> HBP sign to all the ornage vests that they see. The welcome
> wagon service can give rides from the parking areas to Camp
> Scholler, the bus terminal, etc. to anyone who is parking and
> staying elsewhere.
>
> Any other questions feel free to contact me. I trust that you'll
> get this info out to the RV-10 community.
>
> Jeff"
> ---
>
> So there you have it folks, the requests are out there. I may
> post one more reminder next week, but it's so close to OSH now
> that my mind is wandering off daydreaming a lot....so I
> may miss that one. ;)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: Re: torque tube support attach to wing root rib
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
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in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
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--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: Re: torque tube support attach to wing root rib
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
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--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: Re: torque tube support attach to wing root rib
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: Here I go again - console finished
Tim,
I've been thinking about doing something similar. The aluminum may be easier to
finish off with the materials Abby supplys as well. Do you have any dimensions
or pic's?
Rick S.
40185
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Sean Stephens <schmoboy(at)cox.net>
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: Re: AL Center Console
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
>
>
> We made an AL center console from the panel down to the tunnel and it's
> got room for an SL15, SL30, GX60, and a GTX330 transponder, so there
> should be room for such things . . .
>
> TDT
> 40025
>
I would be interested in seeing pics of that if you have them. This is
the route I was planning on taking for a center console.
-Sean #40303 (Kit moved to Illinois, me still in AZ, obviously no work
getting done)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: RV-10 Builders List / RV-10's to OSH / RV-10 Parking-Camping
I second the thought about a daily meeting time/place. It was very
convenient way to sync up. It's not necessary for everybody to meet
everyday, but nice to have a prearranged meeting.
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 1:16 PM
Parking-Camping
Tim, Last year we had set 10:00 am each day as a time where any of the
-10 guys could get together, we met in front of Van's tent. I was able
to meet several of the group at that gathering, and ask questions and
gather advice. Anybody want to repeat this this year? Perhaps we could
meet in front of your plane? Also Cleveland Tool (Mike are you there?)
had an ice cream social one evening at their site, which was another
good group opportunity.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> With less than 2 weeks until OSH, I need to put out another
> post regarding a few topics:
>
> * RV-10 Builder List
> * RV-10's Flying to OSH
> * RV-10 Parking / Camping at OSH
>
> BUILDERS LIST
> -------------
> First, regarding the builder list. I'm both impressed with
> the response, but also surprised. I'm impressed because
> we got over 100 responses and people added on to the builder
> list. Some from last year never responded with their info.
> It was a bit of work, but the list has already made it possible
> for a couple people to meet up who were in the same area.
> I'm kind of surprised, because with 600+ kits sold, and only
> getting just over 100 replies, that means that the huge
> majority is unknown or at least non-responsive or possibly
> not even watching any online groups. If the same ratio of
> responders were to go to OSH in the remaining 500 builders,
> we're going to have over 480 RV-10 builder at OSH this year!!
> I'm also surprised that out of 35+ RV-10's flying, we only
> have 7 for sure, and 9 possible listed as flying to OSH
> on the list. Here I don't think we'll see 5X that number
> show, but if the ratio holds true, we may see at least
> a fair share of the 35.
>
> If you haven't put your name on the list, you can sign up
> here. Remember that you can be on the builders list even
> if you aren't going to OSH:
> http://www.myrv10.com/osh.html
>
> Don't forget if you're going to OSH to list if you're bringing
> kids. I'm really hoping we can have some gatherings of
> families if it works out.
>
> Once you're on the list, you'll get an access code to the
> complete list. To see a list without the contact info,
> look here: http://www.myrv10.com/osh2/index.html
> That one may be less up to date than the full list.
>
> I think the builders who are on the list would tell you that
> there are nice things about being part of the community.
>
>
> FLYING TO OSH
> -------------
> If you're flying your completed RV-10 to OSH, please try
> to put your name on the list....for a couple good reasons.
>
> A) So the other builders can get pumped up a bit
> B) Because the EAA really wants/needs to know our numbers for
> space reasons. (see below)
>
> If you're flying from a Westward direction, or even if
> you want to join in and are coming from the East or South,
> I'd like to invite you to meet me at KLUM for the flight
> over. I am currently planning to fly in Monday a.m., but
> if the overwhelming majority wanted to go Sunday night,
> I might be swayed. Fuel is currently running $3.609 on
> our field, so it's a *more* economical fuel stop.
>
>
> PARKING/CAMPING at OSH
> ----------------------
> After some initial confusion over who was in control of parking
> our planes, I got in contact with Jeff Point, who has it all
> figured out. He's requesting as complete and accurate of
> a -10 count as we can get, and whether they will be camping or
> parking. They are making some larger sized spaces available for
> our larger planes and they really need to know what to allow.
> I will use the RV-10 builders list to give him the final
> headcount that I come up with, and he's hoping to use that, plus
> some good estimation skills to allow enough space. If you're
> bringing a -10, it will help "guarantee" (there is no such thing)
> that an attempt at space is left. The lots we park and camp in
> are notoriously tight on space.
>
> Here is a note from Jeff:
> ---
> "We finally got the RV-10 arrangements figured out. We were up
> at Oshkosh last week taking measurements etc for how we are going
> to lay out the field this year. It's going to be differenet from
> last year in several respects.
>
> The RV-10 campers will be as previously discussed, in their own row
> on the east end of the Homebuilt camping area. Those arrangements
> haven't changed from what you and Kreth worked out. Just as a
> reminder, anyone who parks in the camping area will be assessed the
> $18/ day camping fee, whether they pitch a tent or not. Anyone
> parked in this area but not camping will be asked to park elsewhere.
> This real estate is just to scarce, in the camping area.
>
> The RV-10 parking area (non-camping) will not be adjacent to the
> campers. It will be where it was last year, at the east end of the
> RV parking area, just west of the north commercial displays (where
> Van's tent it.) RV-10ers who are not camping should display the
> HBP sign to all the ornage vests that they see. The welcome
> wagon service can give rides from the parking areas to Camp
> Scholler, the bus terminal, etc. to anyone who is parking and
> staying elsewhere.
>
> Any other questions feel free to contact me. I trust that you'll
> get this info out to the RV-10 community.
>
> Jeff"
> ---
>
> So there you have it folks, the requests are out there. I may
> post one more reminder next week, but it's so close to OSH now
> that my mind is wandering off daydreaming a lot....so I
> may miss that one. ;)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: Re: RV-10 Builders List / RV-10's to OSH / RV-10 Parking-Camping
Deems, Tim et al.
I'd love to meet with you folks during KOSH, I'm going there with my son and
am still in the lurking stage...the J 5 is going very slowly...want to get
this down the road before jumping into the 10...hard to have two projects!
Patrick Scott
610-745-6057
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: B&C SD-20 and Oil Filter Adapter Update
I've been negligent in providing an update to the interference issue
between the subject components. There are actually 2 solutions:
If you need these two items to play together within the next 6-8 weeks
then you need the SD-20S version of the alternator and a "clocking
adapter" to rotate the alternator 45 degrees on the vacuum pad. The
SD-20S version is 5/8" shorter than the regular SD-20 to account for the
5/8" depth of the clocking adapter. The 45 degree rotation largely
solves the interference problem, balance of issue is resolved by
changing a bolt to a cap head screw on one corner of the filter adapter.
This solution was provided to an RV-10 builder someplace in Oregon that
needed a fix immediately to keep a scheduled date with a paint shop.
Long term solution is that B&C is going to manufacture a =BE" spacer and
new shear coupling for their SD-20 alternator which also solves the
interference issue. Simply moving the alternator back solves the
problem. People that want to use both products would simply order the
additional spacer (replacement studs for the vacuum pad would be
included). This is what B&C sees as the preferred solution. Delay time
is due to tooling and manufacturing lead times.
I've elected to go with the final solution and will report back when
it's installed. What a great company to work with!
Bob #40105
FWF - fighting with baffling...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com>
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: RE: consoles
I'll dig out some pics tonight. Unfortunately, we didn't really record
the dimensions. We just sort of did it on the fly to fit.
Hey, I just found one picture here at work:
TDT
40025
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 2:48 PM
Tim,
I've been thinking about doing something similar. The aluminum may be
easier to finish off with the materials Abby supplys as well. Do you
have any dimensions or pic's?
Rick S.
40185
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com>
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: B&C SD-20 and Oil Filter Adapter Update
Bob:
Thanks for the leg work on this. Just to clarify, the preferred option
#2 involves no change to the oil filter adaptor, just the SD-20 mount?
(So I can go ahead and mount that and wait on the alternator?)
Thanks,
TDT
40025
________________________________
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
(US SSA)
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 3:16 PM
I've been negligent in providing an update to the interference issue
between the subject components. There are actually 2 solutions:
If you need these two items to play together within the next 6-8 weeks
then you need the SD-20S version of the alternator and a "clocking
adapter" to rotate the alternator 45 degrees on the vacuum pad. The
SD-20S version is 5/8" shorter than the regular SD-20 to account for the
5/8" depth of the clocking adapter. The 45 degree rotation largely
solves the interference problem, balance of issue is resolved by
changing a bolt to a cap head screw on one corner of the filter adapter.
This solution was provided to an RV-10 builder someplace in Oregon that
needed a fix immediately to keep a scheduled date with a paint shop.
Long term solution is that B&C is going to manufacture a =BE" spacer and
new shear coupling for their SD-20 alternator which also solves the
interference issue. Simply moving the alternator back solves the
problem. People that want to use both products would simply order the
additional spacer (replacement studs for the vacuum pad would be
included). This is what B&C sees as the preferred solution. Delay time
is due to tooling and manufacturing lead times.
I've elected to go with the final solution and will report back when
it's installed. What a great company to work with!
Bob #40105
FWF - fighting with baffling...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: Re: Here I go again - console finished
Deems,
Make sure when you redo those sticks that you get enough aft stick if your going
to move the grip back. If I recall on my flight, darn near full aft stick was
needed on the flare so make sure "you" meaning your body doesn't stop that from
happening. How much forward motion have you lost with the stick hitting the
panel? Does it hit the elevator stops? Like you, my HS is not mounted yet to
check but someone may be able to tell you how far forward from plumb the stick
moves before hitting the stop.
Besides you will only need full down for the outside loop. ;)
Rick S.
40185
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: B&C SD-20 and Oil Filter Adapter Update
Tim,
Correct. Bill said that you might need to make sure that the lower
right bolt on the OFA has the flat oriented correctly but he wants to
test fit the final production stuff to make sure. If there's an issue
they'll send out a cap head screw to replace that single bolt.
BTW, very nice job on the center console - I might have to duplicate...
Bob
_____
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 2:25 PM
Bob:
Thanks for the leg work on this. Just to clarify, the preferred option
#2 involves no change to the oil filter adaptor, just the SD-20 mount?
(So I can go ahead and mount that and wait on the alternator?)
Thanks,
TDT
40025
_____
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
(US SSA)
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 3:16 PM
I've been negligent in providing an update to the interference issue
between the subject components. There are actually 2 solutions:
If you need these two items to play together within the next 6-8 weeks
then you need the SD-20S version of the alternator and a "clocking
adapter" to rotate the alternator 45 degrees on the vacuum pad. The
SD-20S version is 5/8" shorter than the regular SD-20 to account for the
5/8" depth of the clocking adapter. The 45 degree rotation largely
solves the interference problem, balance of issue is resolved by
changing a bolt to a cap head screw on one corner of the filter adapter.
This solution was provided to an RV-10 builder someplace in Oregon that
needed a fix immediately to keep a scheduled date with a paint shop.
Long term solution is that B&C is going to manufacture a =BE" spacer and
new shear coupling for their SD-20 alternator which also solves the
interference issue. Simply moving the alternator back solves the
problem. People that want to use both products would simply order the
additional spacer (replacement studs for the vacuum pad would be
included). This is what B&C sees as the preferred solution. Delay time
is due to tooling and manufacturing lead times.
I've elected to go with the final solution and will report back when
it's installed. What a great company to work with!
Bob #40105
FWF - fighting with baffling...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: Re: Here I go again - console finished
Another good suggestion, I think I'll remount the HS and an elevator to
find out if this is a real or perceived problem. (The size of my gut is
real, the amount of elevator throw is perceived. :-D
THANKS
Deems
Rick wrote:
>
>Deems,
>
>Make sure when you redo those sticks that you get enough aft stick if your going
to move the grip back. If I recall on my flight, darn near full aft stick was
needed on the flare so make sure "you" meaning your body doesn't stop that
from happening. How much forward motion have you lost with the stick hitting the
panel? Does it hit the elevator stops? Like you, my HS is not mounted yet to
check but someone may be able to tell you how far forward from plumb the stick
moves before hitting the stop.
>
>Besides you will only need full down for the outside loop. ;)
>
>
>Rick S.
>40185
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: Re: Here I go again - console finished
I'm sure this decision is too late for you Deems, as you made your
beautiful console, but, for the other list people....
I am finding that the quadrant control is very smooth and precise
and I can pinpoint my RPM and MP much closer using the quadrant
than I did with N220RV with the vernier for my transition training.
I know vernier is normally the way to go for precise control,
but I can definitely tell you that I had a much-less-than-perfect
experience with the vernier in that RV-10, but from day one
I've had great precision with mine. So don't let the lack
of smooth and precise power/mix/prop control steer you away
from a quadrant....I found it to be the opposite. I'm sure that
things such as where the linkage attaches to the lever, and
the quality of the control can have a huge factor in this, but
this quadrant is great....far better than the one that
was in my Beech.
If anyone has any doubts, just come on over to KLUM on the
weekend before OSH and I'll let you do a little flying
to see for yourself. You just have to help me get the bugs
off it before I leave for the show. ;)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Deems Davis wrote:
>
> I'm going w/ the vernier controls, I had the 'big plane feel' on 2
> Barons with the quadrants and while it made me feel more like an airline
> jockey, I always missed the precision of the vernier controls
> (especially on landings) that I had w/ the Bonanza, so I'm swallowing my
> ego and going back to the vernier controls. There's plenty of room for
> transponder,autopilot/switches or ? in the console, in fact the past
> couple of day's I've been noodling around the center stack arrangement,
> the radios and transponder are over 11" deep and not withstanding the
> mod that I already made to the fwd fuse ribs, will require a cutout in
> the sub-panel to allow for their depth. This has some influence over
> where the various components get placed in the stack, so I've been doing
> the 'cut-n-paste' routine with the various components to see which works
> best. I'm also reconsidering the 3 steam gages. John Cox pointed out
> that since they are 'back-up' instruments that they should not occupy
> such expensive panel real estate (ie. they are high and prominent). so
> I've been experimenting there also, additionally, I'm thinking about
> scraping the steam gages and putting in a Dynon -10A for back-up, for
> slightly more $'s I get 7 more instruments. Decisions, decisions,
> decisions.....
>
> btw Rick, Thanks for the info re th CH sticks Kevin sent me a sample for
> a test fit, and it turns out that they do indeed interfere with the
> panel in the most fwd position, BUT, I like them sooooooo... much I'm
> looking for a welder that can cut and reweld the sticks so that the
> upright portion is about 20 degrees back, which should give me the
> clearance I need.
>
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Fuse
> http://deemsrv10.com/
> Rick wrote:
>
>>
>> Deems,
>>
>> Are you going with the throttle quadrant? And is there room to place
>> switches and or maybe the trransponder in your console?
>>
>> Rick S.
>> 40185
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: RV-10 Builders List / RV-10's to OSH / RV-10 Parking-Camping
Tim, thanks for the continueing hard work. First, when talking to Jeff
Point get to an agreement that unannounced RV-10 arrivals are not going
to be corralled with those who showed the courtesy of posting in
advance. Those in advance get better placement and the others go "At
Large". As a former producer of Air Shows the only thing more disgusting
are the guys who sneak in, say they are with a show to get free fuel and
bennies (never to have announced and never participating). They should
be in the general North 40 parking masses and learn the value of the
school bus shuttle. There is plenty of room for every flying RV-10 but
they should at least line up parking in advance.
I am ready to eat my words, but I still feel strongly that 50 will be
flying by OSH and 20 will be on the ground there. It is tragic that so
many remain lurkers or felt there was little value in being part of the
Matronics Advantage.
Now if you can just work on the Wisconsin heat, humidity and
thundercloud activity too.
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 10:45 AM
Parking-Camping
With less than 2 weeks until OSH, I need to put out another post
regarding a few topics:
* RV-10 Builder List
* RV-10's Flying to OSH
* RV-10 Parking / Camping at OSH
BUILDERS LIST
-------------
First, regarding the builder list. I'm both impressed with the
response, but also surprised. I'm impressed because we got over 100
responses and people added on to the builder list. Some from last year
never responded with their info.
It was a bit of work, but the list has already made it possible for a
couple people to meet up who were in the same area.
I'm kind of surprised, because with 600+ kits sold, and only getting
just over 100 replies, that means that the huge majority is unknown or
at least non-responsive or possibly not even watching any online groups.
If the same ratio of responders were to go to OSH in the remaining 500
builders, we're going to have over 480 RV-10 builder at OSH this year!!
I'm also surprised that out of 35+ RV-10's flying, we only have 7 for
sure, and 9 possible listed as flying to OSH
on the list. Here I don't think we'll see 5X that number
show, but if the ratio holds true, we may see at least a fair share of
the 35.
If you haven't put your name on the list, you can sign up here.
Remember that you can be on the builders list even if you aren't going
to OSH:
http://www.myrv10.com/osh.html
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <jim(at)CombsFive.Com>
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: Re: RE: consoles
Very Nice!
Jim C
===========================================================
I'll dig out some pics tonight. Unfortunately, we didn't really record
the dimensions. We just sort of did it on the fly to fit.
Hey, I just found one picture here at work:
TDT
40025
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 2:48 PM
Tim,
I've been thinking about doing something similar. The aluminum may be
easier to finish off with the materials Abby supplys as well. Do you
have any dimensions or pic's?
Rick S.
40185
===================================
===================================
===================================
===================================
===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
From: GenGrumpy(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: Re: Flap position sensor
Here is how we've mounted the one in N184JM.
The push rod comes from a remote controlled airplane store.
Grumpy #40404
60 days or less to first flight!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: RV-10 Builders List / RV-10's to OSH / RV-10
John,
Your not far off...I checked the FAA data base and there were 58 RV-10's registered,
I think, there were two pages of them, some may be waiting for a DAR???
But none the less, almost 60 of them in the database.
Rick S.
40185
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: Here I go again - console finished
I only left about 1.50 inches on the stick, the rest is all CH grip.
Rick S.
40185
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: Instruments for Sale
I am re-doing my RV-4 instrument panel and I am selling my old
instruments. Below is what I have for sale, first come first serve.....
The rest will go to eBay.
Also, if you feel the price is too high, feel free to make an offer,
I'll take the highest offer or I'll eBay them. All instruments were new
168 hours ago, except the Dynon has less than 100 hours and the KX155,
KI209, and the KT76A were used when I purchased them. Please respond
off list to n223rv (at)
wolflakeairport.net.
Pictures available upon request, but I will most likely only be able to
respond in the evenings.
All prices include FedEx ground shipping.
Item Current Price Asking Price
UMA 1.25" CHT gauge $117.95 $82.00
UMA 1.25" Oil Pressure gauge $118.95 $83.00
UMA 1.25" Ammeter gauge $154.95 $108.00
UMA 1.25" EGT gauge $117.95 $82.00
UMA 1.25" Fuel Pressure gauge $118.95 $83.00
UMA 1.25" Volt Meter gauge $118.95 $83.00
UMA 1.25" Oil Temp gauge $118.95 $83.00
Price for all 7 gauges $866.65 $570.00
King KX155 14V w/ G/S $2,000.00
King KI209 Indicator (VOR/Glideslope Indicator) $750.00
King KT76A 14V Transponder $750.00
Garmin 295, color GPS, all original accy's, extra power cords, manuals,
and original box $625.00
Comant Diplexer CI 1125 (Dual VOR and Dual G/S to one antenna) $125.95
$75.00
Van's Fuel Gauges (2) $70.00 $45.00
NavAid Autopilot $1,300.00 $650.00
Smart Coupler II LE $249.00 $200.00
UMA Tachometer PN TU 3041 and 19-806-11G (odometer showing 196 hours)
$198.75 $110.00
UMA Airspeed PN 16-310-241D $160.00 $125.00
Van's Manifold Pressure Gauge (gauge only, no sender) $73.40 $25.00
Falcon Altimeter PN ALT20INF-3N 0-20K' $196.95 $130.00
Dynon D10 w/ magnetometer,OAT sensor, and flush mount $2,285.00
$1,500.00
Westach Carb Mix and OAT Temp gauge PN 2DA3-8 $83.25 $50.00
EI Fuel Flow Gauge (gauge only, no sender) $518.00 $310.00
P.S. - I'm no scammer, feel free to read my feedback on eBay (user ID
mkraus01)
Also, anyone is welcome to fly into my house and pick up the
instruments, I live at 26W near Jackson, Michigan. Look us up on
AirNav.com or just come visit sometime. I love guests and I have a
flying RV-4 and building an RV-10.
Thanks,
Mike Kraus
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jul 11, 2006
Subject: Re: RV-10 Builders List / RV-10's to OSH / RV-10
You may well be right Rick, but also unless I am mistaken as soon as someone
applies (not reserves) for the N number it goes on the registry. So there
might be lots of folks who have applied for thier number but still have a
ways to go before flight. When I built the 4 I had the number a year early.
Dick Sipp
40065 110DV reserved
top & wiring
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 10:35 PM
>
> John,
>
> Your not far off...I checked the FAA data base and there were 58 RV-10's
> registered, I think, there were two pages of them, some may be waiting for
> a DAR??? But none the less, almost 60 of them in the database.
>
> Rick S.
> 40185
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Date: Jul 12, 2006
Subject: RV-10 Builders List / RV-10's to OSH / RV-10
No actually it is a two step process. My N number N49CX is reserved but
you will not find it on the registry because I have not requested the
Airworthiness Inspection yet.
John
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Sipp
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 7:56 PM
You may well be right Rick, but also unless I am mistaken as soon as
someone applies (not reserves) for the N number it goes on the registry.
So there might be lots of folks who have applied for thier number but
still have a ways to go before flight. When I built the 4 I had the
number a year early.
Dick Sipp
40065 110DV reserved
top & wiring
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 10:35 PM
>
> John,
>
> Your not far off...I checked the FAA data base and there were 58
RV-10's
> registered, I think, there were two pages of them, some may be waiting
for
> a DAR??? But none the less, almost 60 of them in the database.
>
> Rick S.
> 40185
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com>
Date: Jul 12, 2006
Subject: RV-10 Builders List / RV-10's to OSH / RV-10
It's a three-step process:
1) Reserve N-number. There airplane is not yet "registered", but the
number is recorded in the "registry" as reserved. If fact, there may
not even be an aircraft, it might just be someone hoarding numbers.
2) Register your aircraft.
3) Get your inspection.
Don't wait until you're ready for an inspection to submit your
registration, or you will be cooling your heels for 3-4 weeks while the
FAA processes it. No inspection without an approved registration form
in hand.
TDT
40025
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 11:12 AM
No actually it is a two step process. My N number N49CX is reserved but
you will not find it on the registry because I have not requested the
Airworthiness Inspection yet.
John
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Sipp
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 7:56 PM
You may well be right Rick, but also unless I am mistaken as soon as
someone applies (not reserves) for the N number it goes on the registry.
So there might be lots of folks who have applied for thier number but
still have a ways to go before flight. When I built the 4 I had the
number a year early.
Dick Sipp
40065 110DV reserved
top & wiring
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 10:35 PM
>
> John,
>
> Your not far off...I checked the FAA data base and there were 58
RV-10's
> registered, I think, there were two pages of them, some may be waiting
for
> a DAR??? But none the less, almost 60 of them in the database.
>
> Rick S.
> 40185
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Szutowicz <szutoman(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Jul 12, 2006
Subject: Re: Here I go again - console finished
Hello, I joined this mailing list for RV 10 Builders and it is huge, 200+ emails
a day. Do you have a link to the unsubcribe page, it way to much. Thanks for
your help
Future RV 10 Builder
Deems Davis wrote:
Another good suggestion, I think I'll remount the HS and an elevator to
find out if this is a real or perceived problem. (The size of my gut is
real, the amount of elevator throw is perceived. :-D
THANKS
Deems
Rick wrote:
>
>Deems,
>
>Make sure when you redo those sticks that you get enough aft stick if your going
to move the grip back. If I recall on my flight, darn near full aft stick was
needed on the flare so make sure "you" meaning your body doesn't stop that
from happening. How much forward motion have you lost with the stick hitting the
panel? Does it hit the elevator stops? Like you, my HS is not mounted yet to
check but someone may be able to tell you how far forward from plumb the stick
moves before hitting the stop.
>
>Besides you will only need full down for the outside loop. ;)
>
>
>Rick S.
>40185
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Please Visit http://www.eatonindiana.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Date: Jul 13, 2006
Subject: QB FUSE VANS
Guys if anyone has had problems with there QB fuse could they send an email
to me VHMUM at bigpond.com
Thanks
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gorejr(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Jul 12, 2006
Subject: Re: RV-10 Builders List / RV-10's to OSH / RV-10
How does one go about reserving an N number? Jim
>
> From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson(at)avidyne.com>
> Date: 2006/07/12 Wed AM 11:25:08 EDT
> To:
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Builders List / RV-10's to OSH / RV-10
>
>
>
> It's a three-step process:
> 1) Reserve N-number. There airplane is not yet "registered", but the
> number is recorded in the "registry" as reserved. If fact, there may
> not even be an aircraft, it might just be someone hoarding numbers.
> 2) Register your aircraft.
> 3) Get your inspection.
>
> Don't wait until you're ready for an inspection to submit your
> registration, or you will be cooling your heels for 3-4 weeks while the
> FAA processes it. No inspection without an approved registration form
> in hand.
>
> TDT
> 40025
>
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
> Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 11:12 AM
>
>
> No actually it is a two step process. My N number N49CX is reserved but
> you will not find it on the registry because I have not requested the
> Airworthiness Inspection yet.
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Sipp
> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 7:56 PM
>
>
> You may well be right Rick, but also unless I am mistaken as soon as
> someone applies (not reserves) for the N number it goes on the registry.
> So there might be lots of folks who have applied for thier number but
> still have a ways to go before flight. When I built the 4 I had the
> number a year early.
>
> Dick Sipp
> 40065 110DV reserved
> top & wiring
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 10:35 PM
>
>
> >
> > John,
> >
> > Your not far off...I checked the FAA data base and there were 58
> RV-10's
> > registered, I think, there were two pages of them, some may be waiting
> for
> > a DAR??? But none the less, almost 60 of them in the database.
> >
> > Rick S.
> > 40185
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Jul 12, 2006
Subject: N-Number Reservations
Go here:
http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft
_registry/n_numbers/
Michael Sausen
RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage
PS: Look I changed the subject and even trimmed it down. :-D
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gorejr(at)bellsouth.net
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 4:06 PM
How does one go about reserving an N number? Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Date: Jul 12, 2006
Subject: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions
I'd like any input regarding the installation of the above items. I
don't bend like I used to and want to avoid as many contortions as
possible, to that end I'd like to leave the fuse opened up as long as
possible.
1. What things can I go ahead and attach to the instrument sub-panel
while it's 'transportable' i.e not riveted to the Fuse?
a. Other than the modifications to open up areas for avionics
mounting, what other access holes have builders put in the sub-panel?
b. has anybody installed anything on the FORWARD side of the
sub-panel? What?
c. Any other recommendations for sub-panel work before
installing the upper fwd fuse?
2. How long can I leave the Cabin cover drilled/clecoed' before riveting
it to the fuse? can the doors be(accurately) fit to the cabin w/ the
cover only clecoed vs riveted?
3. Is it easier to install the windows with the cover on or off of the Fuse?
I appreciate any input you might have.
THANKS
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing Fuse / Finishing
http://deemsrv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William DeLacey" <whd721(at)msn.com>
Date: Jul 12, 2006
Subject: RV-10 vs RV-9 or 7 or 6 build time
I would like comments from any repeat builders as to the comparison of build
times for the RV-10 verses any other previous RV they built. Comments like
20% more or half as much would be helpful.
whd721(at)msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Jul 12, 2006
Subject: Re: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions
Deems Davis wrote:
>
> I'd like any input regarding the installation of the above items. I
> don't bend like I used to and want to avoid as many contortions as
> possible, to that end I'd like to leave the fuse opened up as long as
> possible.
>
> 1. What things can I go ahead and attach to the instrument sub-panel
> while it's 'transportable' i.e not riveted to the Fuse?
> a. Other than the modifications to open up areas for avionics
> mounting, what other access holes have builders put in the sub-panel?
I put a larger one in. No huge reason, but it ended up coming in
handy to use as arm and vision access while mounting the Lightspeed
and WSI stuff on the aft side of the upper firewall. I put a bunch
ov various holes in the subpanel for wire passthroughs.
> b. has anybody installed anything on the FORWARD side of the
> sub-panel? What?
I have an E-Bus schottky diode there, in a protective case.
And, I put the stall buzzer there too.
> c. Any other recommendations for sub-panel work before
> installing the upper fwd fuse?
>
> 2. How long can I leave the Cabin cover drilled/clecoed' before riveting
> it to the fuse? can the doors be(accurately) fit to the cabin w/ the
> cover only clecoed vs riveted?
>
I think you'll naturally feel when you need to have it riveted
by just working along through the plans. I can't see why you
wouldn't be able to fit the doors without riveted, but you
should probably install the countersunk bolts before fitting the doors
so that everything is at least in the exact place.
> 3. Is it easier to install the windows with the cover on or off of the
> Fuse?
>
I don't know. It may be easier to install the windows with it off, but
it may make it harder to work with the canopy when putting it on,
and it would sure not be fun if you dislodged or scratched them in
some freak happening while reattaching the canopy.
> I appreciate any input you might have.
>
You're getting to the point where some of the things start to get
a little tougher for the tall/older/slightly oversized. I fit into
a couple of those categories well, and one slightly. ;) I wired
my panel almost fully while installed. Not that I think that's
best....I had my reasons, but I can definitely see benefits of
doing it out of the plane too. But anyway, you're reaching the point
where you start physically suffering a bit more in the build.
I would just say try to have anything placed on the firewall inside
that you intend to leave there. Ground tab blocks, large wire
passthroughs, and anything like that. You can actually attach
the canopy and leave the forward fuse off for a while if you wish.
I think I did the canopy on mine before the forward fuse, and just
slid it in place later. So I think it's plenty do-able. It
won't be too long though after where you're at and you'll be
putting a windshield in, and other things, so access will definitely
get harder. You're coming up on what I think is about the 1/2
way point of the kit in terms of hours pretty soon...about
the time you put the windshield in. So now things start to
get both harder, and more fun. Just hang in there. One thing
you DON'T want to attach until the last minute is the sticks.
Leave the seats out as long as possible too. That way you can
lay a board down over the seat area and lay on it.
Tim
> THANKS
>
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Finishing Fuse / Finishing
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jul 13, 2006
Subject: Re: instrument sub-panel,long
Deems:
I have been thinking the same way you have.
I want to complete as much of the instrument panel and electrical
installation as possible PRIOR to riveting on the forward top skin and the
cabin cover. I have done the inittial trial fitting of the cabin cover with
the forward skin cleocoed on and stopped there.
I have a subcontracted Aerotronics panel and so have the advantage that it
was completed and operationally tested on the bench by them. I also had
them do several optional harnesses and subsystems like the stick grips,
autopilot harnesses, elt harness, interphone etc. The panel is supplied
with multiple cannon plug type connectors that you complete by installing
airframe wires into the panel mating plug. The step by step documentation
is provided. Completing the airframe side of the installation has been easy
with forward top skin off, cabin top off, and the fuselage at floor level.
Nearly all of the many miscellaneous little boxes (altitude encoder,
Freeflight GPS sensor, AOA computer, lighting control boards, voltage
regulator etc etc are mounted on the subpanel and longitudinal ribs. I
found there is plenty of room. Thankfully most of these are connected with
various size d-sub connectors at the unit. The Chelton displays were
positioned to not conflict with the longitudinal rigs and there were only
two minor cut-outs required to the sub panel.
So...the plan is to complete everything including temporary hook up of the
GPS antennas, roll the "canoe" out in the driveway, and functionally test
everything I possibly can. Then the finished cables will be discounted, the
panel removed, top skin riveted to the substructure and finally the panel
will be reinstalled to the substructure ON THE BENCH and the hopefully the
nearly finished assemble will be final riveted to the fuselage per the
plans. Sounds confusing I know. Here are 3 pictures with most of the
components mounted but the cables still loose; I'll try to remember to post
a few more when its finished after OSH. This whole process works in my head,
we'll see about actuality. Ideally from a system and electrical standpoint
everything will be done and tested before the top, doors, or windows are
finished. Hope it works. Apologies for the long post.
Dick Sipp
40065 N110DV reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
Date: Jul 13, 2006
Subject: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions
Thanks for breaking my day Tim :-<
I am at the same point as Deems, and after 2.3 years and more than
1700hrs (Slow build), the reality of still being less than 1/2 way there
is bit hard to deal with. I was really hoping to be done by this time
next year.
Ron
187 - finishing kit is somewhere in Oz.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Thursday, 13 July 2006 1:35 PM
questions
Deems Davis wrote:
>
> I'd like any input regarding the installation of the above items. I
> don't bend like I used to and want to avoid as many contortions as
> possible, to that end I'd like to leave the fuse opened up as long as
> possible.
>
> 1. What things can I go ahead and attach to the instrument sub-panel
> while it's 'transportable' i.e not riveted to the Fuse?
> a. Other than the modifications to open up areas for avionics
> mounting, what other access holes have builders put in the sub-panel?
I put a larger one in. No huge reason, but it ended up coming in
handy to use as arm and vision access while mounting the Lightspeed
and WSI stuff on the aft side of the upper firewall. I put a bunch
ov various holes in the subpanel for wire passthroughs.
> b. has anybody installed anything on the FORWARD side of the
> sub-panel? What?
I have an E-Bus schottky diode there, in a protective case.
And, I put the stall buzzer there too.
> c. Any other recommendations for sub-panel work before
> installing the upper fwd fuse?
>
> 2. How long can I leave the Cabin cover drilled/clecoed' before
riveting
> it to the fuse? can the doors be(accurately) fit to the cabin w/ the
> cover only clecoed vs riveted?
>
I think you'll naturally feel when you need to have it riveted
by just working along through the plans. I can't see why you
wouldn't be able to fit the doors without riveted, but you
should probably install the countersunk bolts before fitting the doors
so that everything is at least in the exact place.
> 3. Is it easier to install the windows with the cover on or off of the
> Fuse?
>
I don't know. It may be easier to install the windows with it off, but
it may make it harder to work with the canopy when putting it on,
and it would sure not be fun if you dislodged or scratched them in
some freak happening while reattaching the canopy.
> I appreciate any input you might have.
>
You're getting to the point where some of the things start to get
a little tougher for the tall/older/slightly oversized. I fit into
a couple of those categories well, and one slightly. ;) I wired
my panel almost fully while installed. Not that I think that's
best....I had my reasons, but I can definitely see benefits of
doing it out of the plane too. But anyway, you're reaching the point
where you start physically suffering a bit more in the build.
I would just say try to have anything placed on the firewall inside
that you intend to leave there. Ground tab blocks, large wire
passthroughs, and anything like that. You can actually attach
the canopy and leave the forward fuse off for a while if you wish.
I think I did the canopy on mine before the forward fuse, and just
slid it in place later. So I think it's plenty do-able. It
won't be too long though after where you're at and you'll be
putting a windshield in, and other things, so access will definitely
get harder. You're coming up on what I think is about the 1/2
way point of the kit in terms of hours pretty soon...about
the time you put the windshield in. So now things start to
get both harder, and more fun. Just hang in there. One thing
you DON'T want to attach until the last minute is the sticks.
Leave the seats out as long as possible too. That way you can
lay a board down over the seat area and lay on it.
Tim
> THANKS
>
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Finishing Fuse / Finishing
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill DeRouchey <billderou(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jul 12, 2006
Subject: Re: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions
I approached the fwd upper fuselage, panel, and cabin in the following order and
in hindsight it worked well.
Before the panel & fwd upper fuse were riveted to the lower fuselage I installed
avionics, glass PFD, autopilot, engine monitor, voltage regulator, switch,
and map box while the unit was on the bench. Three wire bundles [engine bay,
left side run, right side run] were collected with long tails and each wire labeled
with masking tape. A 37pin Amp plug was mounted to the sub-panel and all
panel wiring passes through this plug. My fuse box, from West Marine, was installed
on the sub-panel with only three fuses on the outer panel to shed load
during an electrical emergency.
Rivet the unit to the fuselage and run the bundles into the engine compartment
and down the left and right sides. Now two work areas can be addressed independently
- engine compartment and cabin. The wires on the side were either spliced
or routed to one of my three connectors [L & R wing, tail].
The cabin was permanently installed next. I do not think the doors can be fitted
properly unless the fiberglass cabin is in its final resting place. The doors
are seated into the cabin opening by beveling both/either edges and small
changes in the outer shell can have big effects on the door fit.
Before I cemented the front windscreen, I installed the GPS antenna far forward
in line with the co-pilot. Note that I also left vertical space so the antenna
could be replaced with a newer antenna that supports WAAS.
Windows, cabin doors, and FWF were next. Last item riveted were the two top tail
skins. Leaving this to last was a big help routing wires through the tail.
Bill DeRouchey - billderou(at)yahoo.com
N939SB, Kit #40029
Fly next week
Deems Davis wrote:
I'd like any input regarding the installation of the above items. I
don't bend like I used to and want to avoid as many contortions as
possible, to that end I'd like to leave the fuse opened up as long as
possible.
1. What things can I go ahead and attach to the instrument sub-panel
while it's 'transportable' i.e not riveted to the Fuse?
a. Other than the modifications to open up areas for avionics
mounting, what other access holes have builders put in the sub-panel?
b. has anybody installed anything on the FORWARD side of the
sub-panel? What?
c. Any other recommendations for sub-panel work before
installing the upper fwd fuse?
2. How long can I leave the Cabin cover drilled/clecoed' before riveting
it to the fuse? can the doors be(accurately) fit to the cabin w/ the
cover only clecoed vs riveted?
3. Is it easier to install the windows with the cover on or off of the Fuse?
I appreciate any input you might have.
THANKS
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing Fuse / Finishing
http://deemsrv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tom Gesele <tgesele(at)optonline.net>
Date: Jul 13, 2006
Subject: RV-10 vs RV-9 or 7 or 6 build time
I buit a -6 to the point of needing to hang engine/install avionics and am
currently at the exact same place on the -10 so my perspective is the
construction of the kit as Van's supplied.
On the -6, I had roughly 2500 hours in and on the -10 I've got 1150 in. My
guess is engine and avionics will be roughly the same between the two. Both
kits were slow builds, the -6 was pre-punched emp/wings. Keep in mind that
the experience gained bulding the -6 translated into substantially faster
build time on the -10 with far fewer mistakes.
Hope this helps.
- Tom Gesele #40473
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of William
DeLacey
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 11:20 PM
I would like comments from any repeat builders as to the comparison of build
times for the RV-10 verses any other previous RV they built. Comments like
20% more or half as much would be helpful.
whd721(at)msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Jul 13, 2006
Subject: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions
Deems,
One of the local builders here didn't install the forward deck until
he was a couple weeks from flying. Why? Thank a certain panel builder
for their timely delivery. ;-) He had everything done, hung, installed
except for the windscreen, cowl, and anything that would attach to the
deck.
Michael Sausen
RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 9:46 PM
questions
I'd like any input regarding the installation of the above items. I
don't bend like I used to and want to avoid as many contortions as
possible, to that end I'd like to leave the fuse opened up as long as
possible.
1. What things can I go ahead and attach to the instrument sub-panel
while it's 'transportable' i.e not riveted to the Fuse?
a. Other than the modifications to open up areas for avionics
mounting, what other access holes have builders put in the sub-panel?
b. has anybody installed anything on the FORWARD side of the
sub-panel? What?
c. Any other recommendations for sub-panel work before
installing the upper fwd fuse?
2. How long can I leave the Cabin cover drilled/clecoed' before riveting
it to the fuse? can the doors be(accurately) fit to the cabin w/ the
cover only clecoed vs riveted?
3. Is it easier to install the windows with the cover on or off of the
Fuse?
I appreciate any input you might have.
THANKS
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing Fuse / Finishing
http://deemsrv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Testement" <jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com>
Date: Jul 13, 2006
Subject: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions
Bill, can you post photos of the connector locations. Your description was
helpful. Thanks.
John Testement
HYPERLINK "mailto:jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com"jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com
40321
Richmond, VA
Finish kit - gear legs and wheels
_____
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill DeRouchey
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 12:56 AM
questions
I approached the fwd upper fuselage, panel, and cabin in the following order
and in hindsight it worked well.
Before the panel & fwd upper fuse were riveted to the lower fuselage I
installed avionics, glass PFD, autopilot, engine monitor, voltage regulator,
switch, and map box while the unit was on the bench. Three wire bundles
[engine bay, left side run, right side run] were collected with long tails
and each wire labeled with masking tape. A 37pin Amp plug was mounted to the
sub-panel and all panel wiring passes through this plug. My fuse box, from
West Marine, was installed on the sub-panel with only three fuses on the
outer panel to shed load during an electrical emergency.
Rivet the unit to the fuselage and run the bundles into the engine
compartment and down the left and right sides. Now two work areas can be
addressed independently - engine compartment and cabin. The wires on the
side were either spliced or routed to one of my three connectors [L & R
wing, tail].
The cabin was permanently installed next. I do not think the doors can be
fitted properly unless the fiberglass cabin is in its final resting place.
The doors are seated into the cabin opening by beveling both/either edges
and small changes in the outer shell can have big effects on the door fit.
Before I cemented the front windscreen, I installed the GPS antenna far
forward in line with the co-pilot. Note that I also left vertical space so
the antenna could be replaced with a newer antenna that supports WAAS.
Windows, cabin doors, and FWF were next. Last item riveted were the two top
tail skins. Leaving this to last was a big help routing wires through the
tail.
Bill DeRouchey - HYPERLINK "mailto:billderou(at)yahoo.com"billderou(at)yahoo.com
N939SB, Kit #40029
Fly next week
Deems Davis wrote:
I'd like any input regarding the installation of the above items. I
don't bend like I used to and want to avoid as many contortions as
possible, to that end I'd like to leave the fuse opened up as long as
possible.
1. What things can I go ahead and attach to the instrument sub-panel
while it's 'transportable' i.e not riveted to the Fuse?
a. Other than the modifications to open up areas for avionics
mounting, what other access holes have builders put in the
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
Date: Jul 13, 2006
Subject: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions
1. What things can I go ahead and attach to the instrument sub-panel
while it's 'transportable' i.e not riveted to the Fuse?
a. Other than the modifications to open up areas for avionics
mounting, what other access holes have builders put in the sub-panel?
b. has anybody installed anything on the FORWARD side of the
sub-panel? What?
c. Any other recommendations for sub-panel work before
installing the upper fwd fuse?
Jesse: I just put in one big hole for the radio stack, then used the bottom
of the sub-panel to hold adel clamps that all of my wires go through, then
put holes and snap bushings in the sub-panel to route wires through to the
firewall and down to the sides of the plane. I have my instrument cooling
fan, power distribution bus block, MAP Sensor, Ammeter Shunt, and dimmer
boards all on the sub-panel. That makes it really nice to work on the
wiring just by removing the panel. Also, I have the crossbar under the
instrument panel (although removeable with screws) there as an armrest
if/when needed. In N256H we almost completely removed the sub-panel and
then used angles to stiffen it back up, but then we had no good place to
mount all of the things mentioned above. To each his own, but this worked
great for us.
2. How long can I leave the Cabin cover drilled/clecoed' before riveting
it to the fuse? can the doors be(accurately) fit to the cabin w/ the
cover only clecoed vs riveted?
Jesse: You can leave it there for as long as you want, but it will limit the
amount of work that you can do. You may be able to fit the doors safely,
but I don't know it I recommend it. Fitting the doors is a pretty important
part. I guess, if you were to go ahead and bolt/screw the cabin top in
where the door goes, then cleco it where all the pop rivets go, it should be
pretty good. What are you trying to avoid by leaving it off. It is
possible to install the upper forward fuse section after the cabin top is in
place, although it is not quite as easy.
3. Is it easier to install the windows with the cover on or off of the Fuse?
Jesse: I am sure it would be a fair bit easier with the cover off, but much
safer with it on, because you really want to have it in the exact form that
it will stay in before gluing the windows in IMHO.
Hope this helps.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
--
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Schipper <mike(at)learningplanet.com>
Date: Jul 13, 2006
Subject: Re: RV-10 vs RV-9 or 7 or 6 build time
Compared to the RV-9A, the RV-10 kit is very similar. The
instructions, however, are far superior so far.
It took about 1500 hours to complete my RV-9A slow build. Given the
larger size of the RV-10 I figure it will take about 25% more time.
The quickbuild would save a lot of time, but I enjoy building.
Mike Schipper
RV-9A - N63MS - Flying
RV-10 #40576 - Working on Empennage
http://www.rvten.com
On Jul 12, 2006, at 10:20 PM, William DeLacey wrote:
>
> I would like comments from any repeat builders as to the comparison
> of build times for the RV-10 verses any other previous RV they
> built. Comments like 20% more or half as much would be helpful.
>
> whd721(at)msn.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James K Hovis" <james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jul 13, 2006
Subject: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
As noted before I've been lurking absorbing the material before I actually
make the plunge and get a RV-10 kit. One question I'd like to post to you
here is what you think the relative value for a completed RV-10 would be if
one was to sell their aircraft on the open market? I know that type of
question would probably lead to many different answers since each airplane
built is a little different from the next based on builder preferences and
such. For example, one guy could build a strictly VFR machine while his
buddy a few hangers away has a hard IFR capable machine. What I'm thinking
is a moderate to high hp engine (235 to 260 hp) and probably light duty IFR
capable (i.e. basic gauges with maybe one or two EFIS displays and engine
monitor). If I can reasonably assure the household finance minister that I
can get a good return on my investment, it might sway her towards my
thinking. I've seen one RV-10 offered for $220,000 and a partially finished
a/c for $175,000. I'd assume there hasn't been many sold since finished
birds haven't been flying long, but any info from the list is helpful.
Thanks.
James K. Hovis
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phil Hall <phil(at)asibuildings.com>
Date: Jul 13, 2006
Subject: Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
James,
I have a 10 that is close to being done and have $125,000 invested in it and I
have to sell it. I will sell it for $125,000. I0-540, MT prop, dual GRT
EFIS,
etc. The only thing left to purchase is upholstery and paint
Phil
40122
888-583-5155
>
> As noted before I've been lurking absorbing the material before I actually
> make the plunge and get a RV-10 kit. One question I'd like to post to you
> here is what you think the relative value for a completed RV-10 would be if
> one was to sell their aircraft on the open market? I know that type of
> question would probably lead to many different answers since each airplane
> built is a little different from the next based on builder preferences and
> such. For example, one guy could build a strictly VFR machine while his
buddy
> a few hangers away has a hard IFR capable machine. What I'm thinking is a
> moderate to high hp engine (235 to 260 hp) and probably light duty IFR
> capable ( i.e. basic gauges with maybe one or two EFIS displays and engine
> monitor). If I can reasonably assure the household finance minister that I
> can get a good return on my investment, it might sway her towards my
> thinking. I've seen one RV-10 offered for $220,000 and a partially finished
> a/c for $175,000. I'd assume there hasn't been many sold since finished
birds
> haven't been flying long, but any info from the list is helpful.
>
> Thanks.
>
> James K. Hovis
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rv10builder" <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Jul 13, 2006
Subject: Door fitting
For those of you that have fitted your doors...
I am finding that a considerable amount of material must be removed from
the door perimeter to get them to where they'll recess into the canopy
opening. By considerable I mean that possibly 1/8 to 1/4 further than
the scribe line is removed. Is this normal? Just being cautious!
Brian
40308 (doors)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rv10builder
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pascal" <pascalreid(at)verizon.net>
Date: Jul 13, 2006
Subject: Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
I see you questions are focused on resale. I have a few for you however
(but there are hundreds of questions I assume you have reviewed before
reaching the finacial piece)
- Do you have a strong desire to build a plane? 1250 or so hours of your
life is a lot of time to be spending for good resale value
- Does the finance minister like to fly- will she look forward to going
on trips that take too long to get to by auto?
- Do you understand that the price to build the plane is only the start
of the finances you'll be spending (Taxes, hangar, maintenance (oil,
etc) that can add up to 10% yearly.
With that said, I have not started the building but I have a stronger
desire to build the plane than to fly it and one day will be ready to
sell it for another reason. I have no doubt I'll get my time and money
back when the plane is sold. Simply put my CFO supports the RV-10
because she knows I love to build and have spent 7 years planning and
saving for a kit plane. She also really wants to take trips we simply
can not go on due to distance and time to get there, those two and not
the resale works for me, if your answer to the three questions is "yes"
and your wife understands the implication of your time building, the
resale value should be an easy sale for you. Just don't get caught up
with the money and forget why your building the plane to start with-
unless of course it is as an investment with hopes of making money on
your labor and not for the pleasure it will bring.
Best of success with your propostion to the finance minister
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: James K Hovis
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:28 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
As noted before I've been lurking absorbing the material before I
actually make the plunge and get a RV-10 kit. One question I'd like to
post to you here is what you think the relative value for a completed
RV-10 would be if one was to sell their aircraft on the open market? I
know that type of question would probably lead to many different answers
since each airplane built is a little different from the next based on
builder preferences and such. For example, one guy could build a
strictly VFR machine while his buddy a few hangers away has a hard IFR
capable machine. What I'm thinking is a moderate to high hp engine (235
to 260 hp) and probably light duty IFR capable ( i.e. basic gauges with
maybe one or two EFIS displays and engine monitor). If I can reasonably
assure the household finance minister that I can get a good return on my
investment, it might sway her towards my thinking. I've seen one RV-10
offered for $220,000 and a partially finished a/c for $175,000. I'd
assume there hasn't been many sold since finished birds haven't been
flying long, but any info from the list is helpful.
Thanks.
James K. Hovis
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Reining" <wreining(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jul 13, 2006
Subject: Quick Build (QB) Wings & Fuse - Steps Remaining
Has anyone posted a detailed list of what has already been done, and what
remains to be done, for the QB wings and fuselage? Ideally something that
references the plans, such as: for the wings, sections xx all complete,
steps yy in section zz. need to be finished. I checked the archive, but had
no luck.
Bill Reining - going to OSH all week
Tail cone
40514
N475R reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
From: jerry petersen <bldanrv9a(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jul 13, 2006
Subject: Re: RV-10 vs RV-9 or 7 or 6 build time
The RV-10 is taking at least 25% to 40% longer to
complete than the 9A did. There are always lots of
variables in comparisons but it does take longer.
--- Michael Schipper wrote:
>
>
> Compared to the RV-9A, the RV-10 kit is very
> similar. The
> instructions, however, are far superior so far.
>
> It took about 1500 hours to complete my RV-9A slow
> build. Given the
> larger size of the RV-10 I figure it will take about
> 25% more time.
> The quickbuild would save a lot of time, but I enjoy
> building.
>
> Mike Schipper
> RV-9A - N63MS - Flying
> RV-10 #40576 - Working on Empennage
> http://www.rvten.com
>
>
> On Jul 12, 2006, at 10:20 PM, William DeLacey wrote:
>
>
> >
> > I would like comments from any repeat builders as
> to the comparison
> > of build times for the RV-10 verses any other
> previous RV they
> > built. Comments like 20% more or half as much
> would be helpful.
> >
> > whd721(at)msn.com
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Date: Jul 13, 2006
Subject: covers
In section 35 of the plans, there is a F-1042G-R and -L but below those
"wire covers" is a rectangular area where most of my wiring appears.
Does Van's supply or do we just fabricate?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Testement" <jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com>
Date: Jul 13, 2006
Subject: covers
You can order these from Vans. They also come in their wiring kit (which I
don't recommend unless you are doing a very basic panel). The wiring kit
plans are available separately (to get part numbers from). Tim O. can give
you access to a part of his site with the plans.
John Testement
HYPERLINK "mailto:jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com"jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com
40321
Richmond, VA
Finish kit - gear legs and wheels
_____
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:25 PM
In section 35 of the plans, there is a F-1042G-R and -L but below those
"wire covers" is a rectangular area where most of my wiring appears. Does
Van's supply or do we just fabricate?
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Jul 13, 2006
Subject: Quick Build (QB) Wings & Fuse - Steps Remaining
Bill, good luck on this one.
When my QB Wings and Fuse arrived, I went through the plans as thoroughly as
I thought I could, noting what was left to do, but didn't make a separate
list. Even if I had, I've found lately that I've had to go back and do
things that I overlooked, and then go back and fit the thing I was working
on in the first place! It's not bad because it's kind of a checks and
balances, but it sure throws you off of your rhythm when it happens.
For me, these incidental things just "get done" and I've not tried to
annotate them when I come across them, because it's all in the name of
getting back to the original task. So a good, thorough, complete list seems
like pie in the sky. There are parts of the plans, however, that do say for
Slowbuild, do this, for QB, do this. That's not everywhere in the plans,
but seems to be the author's choice when he wrote that section. Probably
wouldn't be hard for Vans to make a separate set of plans since the QB stuff
is done the same way every time, but then we wouldn't have the slow-build
sections to reference in case we needed to redo a part or needed to modify
something to suit our own missions.
Rob Wright
#392 QB Wings
Tru-Trak Servos delivered yesterday!
Finishing kit delivery next Thurs!
Engine paid for awaiting delivery!
Need more money/time/arms!
_____
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Reining
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 8:42 PM
Has anyone posted a detailed list of what has already been done, and what
remains to be done, for the QB wings and fuselage? Ideally something that
references the plans, such as: for the wings, sections xx all complete,
steps yy in section zz. need to be finished. I checked the archive, but had
no luck.
Bill Reining - going to OSH all week
Tail cone
40514
N475R reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dunne" <acs(at)acspropeller.com.au>
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: Quick Build (QB) Wings & Fuse - Steps Remaining
Bill this would be extremely helpful but you'll find most likely it doesn't
exist.
The problem as I see it, is you don't really want to encourage someone
starting out from point x without the intellectual catch up on what has been
done for you already, particularly when the potential is for minor
variations and discrepancies between QB's which shouldn't happen with good
QC but nonetheless does.
You will see on certain pages of the plans, references to Standard build and
QB but it's my experience that you need to read and re-read everything
that's gone before in any case to be on the safe side and to feel mentally
"up to speed" with the project. Identify everything page by page as per the
standard plans and verify it has been completed correctly is best
engineering practice.
John 40315
ACS *
John Dunne
Managing Director
acs(at)acspropeller.com.au
Aviation Component Services (Qld) Pty Ltd.
Building 612 Lores Bonney Drive,
Archerfield Airport Queensland Australia.
PH:61 7 3274 4500 FAX:61 7 3274 4010
"Everything Propeller"
_____
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Reining
Sent: Friday, 14 July 2006 11:42 AM
Has anyone posted a detailed list of what has already been done, and what
remains to be done, for the QB wings and fuselage? Ideally something that
references the plans, such as: for the wings, sections xx all complete,
steps yy in section zz. need to be finished. I checked the archive, but had
no luck.
Bill Reining - going to OSH all week
Tail cone
40514
N475R reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dunne" <acs(at)acspropeller.com.au>
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject:
My apologies to the list, I didn't mean to have all the business email tag
on the end
Sorry!
John 40315
________________________________________________________________________________
From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
Reply not necessarily aimed at Pascal!
Pascal wrote:
> I see you questions are focused on resale. I have a few for you
> however (but there are hundreds of questions I assume you have
> reviewed before reaching the finacial piece)
> - Do you have a strong desire to build a plane? 1250 or so hours of
> your life is a lot of time to be spending for good resale value
> - Does the finance minister like to fly- will she look forward to
> going on trips that take too long to get to by auto?
> - Do you understand that the price to build the plane is only the
> start of the finances you'll be spending (Taxes, hangar, maintenance
> (oil, etc) that can add up to 10% yearly.
>
> With that said, I have not started the building but I have a stronger
> desire to build the plane than to fly it and one day will be ready to
> sell it for another reason. I have no doubt I'll get my time and money
> back when the plane is sold.
Initially this may be so, but as the -10 becomes more available you'll
be hard pressed to get value for your labor and maybe not the money
you've spent. I had a small business brokering airplanes, and there are
two kinds of folks out there. There are owners that are selling a 'gold
bar' and buyers looking for a 'lead bar'. Very rarely are the two folks
close to reality. There are those that will pay a nice price for a
homebuilt because they have more money than time ..... but as the market
sees more airplanes for sale then the competition for buyers heats up
and sales prices fall. Profit (or breaking even) shouldn't be a part of
the decision to build any homebuilt. Satisfaction and the ability to
legally 'tweak' your pride and joy to improve it's looks, speed, or
efficiency go a long way.
Linn
> Simply put my CFO supports the RV-10 because she knows I love to build
> and have spent 7 years planning and saving for a kit plane. She also
> really wants to take trips we simply can not go on due to distance and
> time to get there, those two and not the resale works for me, if your
> answer to the three questions is "yes" and your wife understands the
> implication of your time building, the resale value should be an easy
> sale for you. Just don't get caught up with the money and forget why
> your building the plane to start with- unless of course it is as an
> investment with hopes of making money on your labor and not for the
> pleasure it will bring.
>
> Best of success with your propostion to the finance minister
>
> Pascal
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: James K Hovis <mailto:james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com>
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:28 AM
> Subject: RV10-List: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
>
> As noted before I've been lurking absorbing the material before I
> actually make the plunge and get a RV-10 kit. One question I'd
> like to post to you here is what you think the relative value
> for a completed RV-10 would be if one was to sell their aircraft
> on the open market? I know that type of question would probably
> lead to many different answers since each airplane built is a
> little different from the next based on builder preferences and
> such. For example, one guy could build a strictly VFR machine
> while his buddy a few hangers away has a hard IFR capable machine.
> What I'm thinking is a moderate to high hp engine (235 to 260 hp)
> and probably light duty IFR capable ( i.e. basic gauges with maybe
> one or two EFIS displays and engine monitor). If I can reasonably
> assure the household finance minister that I can get a good return
> on my investment, it might sway her towards my thinking. I've seen
> one RV-10 offered for $220,000 and a partially finished a/c for
> $175,000. I'd assume there hasn't been many sold since finished
> birds haven't been flying long, but any info from the list is
> helpful.
>
> Thanks.
>
> James K. Hovis
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)cox.net>
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: Re: covers
I got the wire cover from Van's and was REAL disappointed in it to the
point I decided to design my own. I got built covers to go over the
entire side from the front seat up under the panel to the next upright
(left and right). Bent the top over at a 90 degree angle and attached
to the top, bottom and front upright with nutplates I installed. My
wife who did the interior covered it and put in map pockets. As soon as
my DAR does my sign off and I button the -10 up for first flight I will
take some pictures and post.
Russ
N710RV - Hopefullying first flight within the next few days.
----- Original Message -----
From: David McNeill
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 9:25 PM
Subject: RV10-List: covers
In section 35 of the plans, there is a F-1042G-R and -L but below
those "wire covers" is a rectangular area where most of my wiring
appears. Does Van's supply or do we just fabricate?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net>
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions
John,
I am having Stein's group build my panel and they will be using the
modular type panel like the photos that are attached. Apparently it is a
very flexible unit, depending on what you want. The pictures shows it as
already being cut but they obviously cut it to whatever you need. It's
also, I believe, about 2" longer than the panel from Van's, allowing a
little more room to fit stuff in. I like the idea that I will be able to
take section apart to get at the equipment.
Wayne Edgerton #40336
working on the baffling baffles
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net>
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: Re: Quick Build (QB) Wings
I just received from Van's a quick build type flow chart, I don't have
it here at home, it's at the hangar. I didn't study it in detail but I
believe with my quick perusal that it showed what you have to do and
what's already been done. If you haven't received one I would suggest
you give Van's a call.
Wayne Edgerton #40336
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James K Hovis" <james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
Pascal,
Thanks for the kind words. As stated before, I owned an AA-1A for nearly
ten years, so as far as the sustaining costs of ownership I know what it
takes. Holding a repairman's cert for my own airplane is a real benefit to
me too. And being a past part of the airport board for H-88, only about 5
miles from the house, I can deal with those issues too. The desire for
building has been there for quite awhile (somewhat simmered while I actually
owned an airplane) and now that the rug rats are older (can actually buck a
few rivets) and I'm seriously missing being able to go to the airport and
pull out MY airplane anytime I want. Learning how to build an airplane was
one reason I went to college for an AE degree (boy was I in for a shock!).
And the dear wife does like to fly. The first time I took her for a ride, I
ran a C-172 off the side of an ice-covered runway while taxiing for take off
and it didn't scare her off (wasn't serious, just got a wheel of the runway
edge and stuck in a snow/slush bank). Anyway, if I have a reasonable
assurance that what money I put into an airplane I can get back out if I
sell it (and as an added benefit get enough to build a SECOND ship), it'll
help seal the deal. I figure $100K - $125K at least. If you figure $125 /hr
(not a Cessna figure mind you...) at 1250 hrs your labor is "worth" around
$156K. So with $125K in materials and equipment a fairly well equipped -10
could be "worth" $280K or so. Put in a $60K "amateur built" knock-down
factor, you get to that $220K asking price I've seen. Still not bad!
JKH
On 7/13/06, Pascal wrote:
>
> I see you questions are focused on resale. I have a few for you however
> (but there are hundreds of questions I assume you have reviewed before
> reaching the finacial piece)
> - Do you have a strong desire to build a plane? 1250 or so hours of your
> life is a lot of time to be spending for good resale value
> - Does the finance minister like to fly- will she look forward to going on
> trips that take too long to get to by auto?
> - Do you understand that the price to build the plane is only the start of
> the finances you'll be spending (Taxes, hangar, maintenance (oil, etc) that
> can add up to 10% yearly.
>
> With that said, I have not started the building but I have a stronger
> desire to build the plane than to fly it and one day will be ready to sell
> it for another reason. I have no doubt I'll get my time and money back when
> the plane is sold. Simply put my CFO supports the RV-10 because she knows I
> love to build and have spent 7 years planning and saving for a kit plane.
> She also really wants to take trips we simply can not go on due to distance
> and time to get there, those two and not the resale works for me, if your
> answer to the three questions is "yes" and your wife understands the
> implication of your time building, the resale value should be an easy sale
> for you. Just don't get caught up with the money and forget why your
> building the plane to start with- unless of course it is as an investment
> with hopes of making money on your labor and not for the pleasure it will
> bring.
>
> Best of success with your propostion to the finance minister
>
> Pascal
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* James K Hovis
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:28 AM
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
>
>
> As noted before I've been lurking absorbing the material before I
> actually make the plunge and get a RV-10 kit. One question I'd like to post
> to you here is what you think the relative value for a completed RV-10 would
> be if one was to sell their aircraft on the open market? I know that type of
> question would probably lead to many different answers since each airplane
> built is a little different from the next based on builder preferences and
> such. For example, one guy could build a strictly VFR machine while his
> buddy a few hangers away has a hard IFR capable machine. What I'm thinking
> is a moderate to high hp engine (235 to 260 hp) and probably light duty IFR
> capable ( i.e. basic gauges with maybe one or two EFIS displays and engine
> monitor). If I can reasonably assure the household finance minister that I
> can get a good return on my investment, it might sway her towards my
> thinking. I've seen one RV-10 offered for $220,000 and a partially finished
> a/c for $175,000. I'd assume there hasn't been many sold since finished
> birds haven't been flying long, but any info from the list is helpful.
>
> Thanks.
>
> James K. Hovis
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)itecusa.org>
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions
Very nice! Cost?
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
HYPERLINK "mailto:jesse(at)itecusa.org"jesse(at)itecusa.org
HYPERLINK "http://www.itecusa.org"www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
_____
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 7:42 AM
John,
I am having Stein's group build my panel and they will be using the modular
type panel like the photos that are attached. Apparently it is a very
flexible unit, depending on what you want. The pictures shows it as already
being cut but they obviously cut it to whatever you need. It's also, I
believe, about 2" longer than the panel from Van's, allowing a little more
room to fit stuff in. I like the idea that I will be able to take section
apart to get at the equipment.
Wayne Edgerton #40336
working on the baffling baffles
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: Overhead Console Vent Inlet
Ed Hayden, who had his canopy at SNF for display at Tony
Sustare's booth for the overhead console, sent me some
photos to post. The overhead console is pressurized via
a tail inlet scoop, and Tony has that completed now. Ed
also has A/C installed in his tail, that works with the
vents. Should be impressive to see when he's flying.
Here is a link to the Mod's page where I stuck everything.
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/mods/index.html
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pascal" <pascalreid(at)verizon.net>
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
This may be personal, but I don't see building a model or anything else
I do for education, edification and enjoyment as being "billable time".
Building a large project is going to be a significantly larger
undertaking financially and time wise but I'm not building this project
as a "professional" I am building for the purpose of what this
"experimental" class was designed for. When I state " I have no doubt
I'll get my time and money back when the plane is sold" I am really
saying "the enjoyment building, teaching my daughter about engineering
and flying, and the memories we will have flying everywhere will make up
for any costs associated with the RV-10" If I get back what I put into
it (currently expected 125K) I will have come out ahead in the end. I am
not looking to make money on my plane, assuming I even sold it in the
next 20 years, I'm looking to enjoy MY work and talking to others about
how to "tweak it".
In the end I agree with you Linn, this is about the journey not the
destination to a hopeful pot of gold.
Thanks!
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: linn Walters
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
Reply not necessarily aimed at Pascal!
Pascal wrote:
I see you questions are focused on resale. I have a few for you
however (but there are hundreds of questions I assume you have reviewed
before reaching the finacial piece)
- Do you have a strong desire to build a plane? 1250 or so hours of
your life is a lot of time to be spending for good resale value
- Does the finance minister like to fly- will she look forward to
going on trips that take too long to get to by auto?
- Do you understand that the price to build the plane is only the
start of the finances you'll be spending (Taxes, hangar, maintenance
(oil, etc) that can add up to 10% yearly.
With that said, I have not started the building but I have a
stronger desire to build the plane than to fly it and one day will be
ready to sell it for another reason. I have no doubt I'll get my time
and money back when the plane is sold.
Initially this may be so, but as the -10 becomes more available you'll
be hard pressed to get value for your labor and maybe not the money
you've spent. I had a small business brokering airplanes, and there are
two kinds of folks out there. There are owners that are selling a 'gold
bar' and buyers looking for a 'lead bar'. Very rarely are the two folks
close to reality. There are those that will pay a nice price for a
homebuilt because they have more money than time ..... but as the market
sees more airplanes for sale then the competition for buyers heats up
and sales prices fall. Profit (or breaking even) shouldn't be a part of
the decision to build any homebuilt. Satisfaction and the ability to
legally 'tweak' your pride and joy to improve it's looks, speed, or
efficiency go a long way.
Linn
Simply put my CFO supports the RV-10 because she knows I love to
build and have spent 7 years planning and saving for a kit plane. She
also really wants to take trips we simply can not go on due to distance
and time to get there, those two and not the resale works for me, if
your answer to the three questions is "yes" and your wife understands
the implication of your time building, the resale value should be an
easy sale for you. Just don't get caught up with the money and forget
why your building the plane to start with- unless of course it is as an
investment with hopes of making money on your labor and not for the
pleasure it will bring.
Best of success with your propostion to the finance minister
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: James K Hovis
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:28 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
As noted before I've been lurking absorbing the material before I
actually make the plunge and get a RV-10 kit. One question I'd like to
post to you here is what you think the relative value for a completed
RV-10 would be if one was to sell their aircraft on the open market? I
know that type of question would probably lead to many different answers
since each airplane built is a little different from the next based on
builder preferences and such. For example, one guy could build a
strictly VFR machine while his buddy a few hangers away has a hard IFR
capable machine. What I'm thinking is a moderate to high hp engine (235
to 260 hp) and probably light duty IFR capable ( i.e. basic gauges with
maybe one or two EFIS displays and engine monitor). If I can reasonably
assure the household finance minister that I can get a good return on my
investment, it might sway her towards my thinking. I've seen one RV-10
offered for $220,000 and a partially finished a/c for $175,000. I'd
assume there hasn't been many sold since finished birds haven't been
flying long, but any info from the list is helpful.
Thanks.
James K. Hovis
________________________________________________________________________________
From: GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
In a message dated 7/13/06 3:30:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jjessen(at)rcn.com writes:
Or, just take her down to a Cirrus dealer and show her the price tag.
a fellow around the corner from us has a Cirrus 22, I believe he said
he's tied up about $370k, our CAP C 182 with a G 1000 cost in the $385k
area...but it's got a bunch of extra's one would not normally order...dual audio
panel, SAT phone etc...
Patrick
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Specketer" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
I built a Glasair III in 1990 for about $100,000. I flew it for 850
hours
over 15 years and sold it for $125,000. I think that I got a great deal
on
the return on my investment. I too felt the labor is not billable. It
is
my hobby, no fisherman or golfer that is not professional figures in his
time in the equation. Build and enjoy, if you don't like the building,
go
buy a factory built and fly tomorrow. Building can be very relaxing,
gratifying and enjoyable, a great hobby. This is my 4th one.
Gary
40274
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 10:19 AM
This may be personal, but I don't see building a model or anything else
I do
for education, edification and enjoyment as being "billable time".
Building
a large project is going to be a significantly larger undertaking
financially and time wise but I'm not building this project as a
"professional" I am building for the purpose of what this "experimental"
class was designed for. When I state " I have no doubt I'll get my time
and
money back when the plane is sold" I am really saying "the enjoyment
building, teaching my daughter about engineering and flying, and the
memories we will have flying everywhere will make up for any costs
associated with the RV-10" If I get back what I put into it (currently
expected 125K) I will have come out ahead in the end. I am not looking
to
make money on my plane, assuming I even sold it in the next 20 years,
I'm
looking to enjoy MY work and talking to others about how to "tweak it".
In the end I agree with you Linn, this is about the journey not the
destination to a hopeful pot of gold.
Thanks!
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:15 PM
Reply not necessarily aimed at Pascal!
Pascal wrote:
I see you questions are focused on resale. I have a few for you however
(but
there are hundreds of questions I assume you have reviewed before
reaching
the finacial piece)
- Do you have a strong desire to build a plane? 1250 or so hours of your
life is a lot of time to be spending for good resale value
- Does the finance minister like to fly- will she look forward to going
on
trips that take too long to get to by auto?
- Do you understand that the price to build the plane is only the start
of
the finances you'll be spending (Taxes, hangar, maintenance (oil, etc)
that
can add up to 10% yearly.
With that said, I have not started the building but I have a stronger
desire
to build the plane than to fly it and one day will be ready to sell it
for
another reason. I have no doubt I'll get my time and money back when the
plane is sold.
Initially this may be so, but as the -10 becomes more available you'll
be
hard pressed to get value for your labor and maybe not the money you've
spent. I had a small business brokering airplanes, and there are two
kinds
of folks out there. There are owners that are selling a 'gold bar' and
buyers looking for a 'lead bar'. Very rarely are the two folks close to
reality. There are those that will pay a nice price for a homebuilt
because
they have more money than time ..... but as the market sees more
airplanes
for sale then the competition for buyers heats up and sales prices fall.
Profit (or breaking even) shouldn't be a part of the decision to build
any
homebuilt. Satisfaction and the ability to legally 'tweak' your pride
and
joy to improve it's looks, speed, or efficiency go a long way.
Linn
Simply put my CFO supports the RV-10 because she knows I love to build
and
have spent 7 years planning and saving for a kit plane. She also really
wants to take trips we simply can not go on due to distance and time to
get
there, those two and not the resale works for me, if your answer to the
three questions is "yes" and your wife understands the implication of
your
time building, the resale value should be an easy sale for you. Just
don't
get caught up with the money and forget why your building the plane to
start
with- unless of course it is as an investment with hopes of making money
on
your labor and not for the pleasure it will bring.
Best of success with your propostion to the finance minister
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:28 AM
As noted before I've been lurking absorbing the material before I
actually
make the plunge and get a RV-10 kit. One question I'd like to post to
you
here is what you think the relative value for a completed RV-10 would be
if
one was to sell their aircraft on the open market? I know that type of
question would probably lead to many different answers since each
airplane
built is a little different from the next based on builder preferences
and
such. For example, one guy could build a strictly VFR machine while his
buddy a few hangers away has a hard IFR capable machine. What I'm
thinking
is a moderate to high hp engine (235 to 260 hp) and probably light duty
IFR
capable ( i.e. basic gauges with maybe one or two EFIS displays and
engine
monitor). If I can reasonably assure the household finance minister that
I
can get a good return on my investment, it might sway her towards my
thinking. I've seen one RV-10 offered for $220,000 and a partially
finished
a/c for $175,000. I'd assume there hasn't been many sold since finished
birds haven't been flying long, but any info from the list is helpful.
Thanks.
James K. Hovis
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
That a great attitude about it Pascal. When it comes to the
future outlook of aviation and plane prices, I tend to think
of myself as a realist. (Note: "Pessimist" is the word
an optimist uses to describe a realist) ;) In my opinion,
with the looming issues ahead:
* Declining pilot population (soon to become more rapid due to
the end of the boomers)
* Increase in old plane sales due to removal of boomers from
the flying population
* Drastic increases in fuel costs
* Increase in regulation and restriction of aviation (i.e. TFR /
ADIZ propogation and general public security fears)
* Increases in insurance rates
* Limited or uncertain future of 100LL
* The almost complete loss of the concept of "personal responsibility"
causing huge lawsuit payouts in aviation.
* Economic concerns of the US Economy, which may be set off by a
drop in the housing market, forcing sales of "toys" like planes.
I personally feel that we're probably living a limited-timed
charmed lifestyle and that the days probably aren't that far away
that aviation will be very hard to both get into and stay in.
We all need to just stop and fully appreciate the time we have with
our health and our aircraft, that will allow us, for this possibly
short time, to have experiences that many people will never get.
To give our families memories that they may never have the opportunity
to pass on to their children. To build up many stories of the
"days when you used to be able to fly your own airplane" that you
can tell your grandkids.
I have done a fairly good financial analysis of the costs of flying
and maintaining my RV-10. It did cost me a good chunk of change
to build, but I have that all paid off now. Surprisingly, I am
finding that after being completed....the mere cost of operation
has a definitely larger impact on my savings growth than aviation
did a few years ago. The RV-10 is fast and efficient, and
"reasonable" to maintain. It is not, however, inexpensive to fly
and own. This is not the fault of the company, the plane,
the avionics I bought, or anything like that. It's the insurance,
the fuel, the oil, the hanger (not for me but for some people),
and those types of things that will keep people from racking
up thousands of hours on the RV-10's.
So when those other Cessna's/Piper's/Beeches, and all those other
old planes start to be dumped on the market at a faster rate,
due to the above concerns, I fully expect the value of my RV-10
to drop along with the market. Depending on what natural,
man-made, legislative, or economic disaster falls on us, we
could literally see our airplanes become nearly worthless almost
overnight. So building and planning for resale value being
equal or higher probably isn't the way to view it. With luck,
all of those above things will prove false, and our values will
climb, our costs will drop, and we'll be able to some day
sell our RV-10's at 125-150% of our initial costs, for the
new RV-25 kits shipping starting in 2030....but I just wouldn't
plan it that way. A good and applicable quote to our entire
building and flying experience is this one by Albert Einstein:
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The
important thing is not to stop questioning.
Cheers,
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Pascal wrote:
> This may be personal, but I don't see building a model or anything else
> I do for education, edification and enjoyment as being "billable time".
> Building a large project is going to be a significantly larger
> undertaking financially and time wise but I'm not building this project
> as a "professional" I am building for the purpose of what this
> "experimental" class was designed for. When I state " I have no doubt
> I'll get my time and money back when the plane is sold" I am really
> saying "the enjoyment building, teaching my daughter about engineering
> and flying, and the memories we will have flying everywhere will make up
> for any costs associated with the RV-10" If I get back what I put into
> it (currently expected 125K) I will have come out ahead in the end. I am
> not looking to make money on my plane, assuming I even sold it in the
> next 20 years, I'm looking to enjoy MY work and talking to others about
> how to "tweak it".
> In the end I agree with you Linn, this is about the journey not the
> destination to a hopeful pot of gold.
> Thanks!
> Pascal
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* linn Walters
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:15 PM
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
>
> Reply not necessarily aimed at Pascal!
>
> Pascal wrote:
>> I see you questions are focused on resale. I have a few for you
>> however (but there are hundreds of questions I assume you have
>> reviewed before reaching the finacial piece)
>> - Do you have a strong desire to build a plane? 1250 or so hours
>> of your life is a lot of time to be spending for good resale value
>> - Does the finance minister like to fly- will she look forward to
>> going on trips that take too long to get to by auto?
>> - Do you understand that the price to build the plane is only the
>> start of the finances you'll be spending (Taxes, hangar,
>> maintenance (oil, etc) that can add up to 10% yearly.
>>
>> With that said, I have not started the building but I have a
>> stronger desire to build the plane than to fly it and one day will
>> be ready to sell it for another reason. I have no doubt I'll get
>> my time and money back when the plane is sold.
> Initially this may be so, but as the -10 becomes more available
> you'll be hard pressed to get value for your labor and maybe not the
> money you've spent. I had a small business brokering airplanes, and
> there are two kinds of folks out there. There are owners that are
> selling a 'gold bar' and buyers looking for a 'lead bar'. Very
> rarely are the two folks close to reality. There are those that
> will pay a nice price for a homebuilt because they have more money
> than time ..... but as the market sees more airplanes for sale then
> the competition for buyers heats up and sales prices fall. Profit
> (or breaking even) shouldn't be a part of the decision to build any
> homebuilt. Satisfaction and the ability to legally 'tweak' your
> pride and joy to improve it's looks, speed, or efficiency go a long way.
> Linn
>> Simply put my CFO supports the RV-10 because she knows I love to
>> build and have spent 7 years planning and saving for a kit plane.
>> She also really wants to take trips we simply can not go on due to
>> distance and time to get there, those two and not the resale works
>> for me, if your answer to the three questions is "yes" and your
>> wife understands the implication of your time building, the resale
>> value should be an easy sale for you. Just don't get caught up
>> with the money and forget why your building the plane to start
>> with- unless of course it is as an investment with hopes of making
>> money on your labor and not for the pleasure it will bring.
>>
>> Best of success with your propostion to the finance minister
>>
>> Pascal
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> *From:* James K Hovis
>> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:28 AM
>> *Subject:* RV10-List: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
>>
>> As noted before I've been lurking absorbing the material
>> before I actually make the plunge and get a RV-10 kit. One
>> question I'd like to post to you here is what you think the
>> relative value for a completed RV-10 would be if one was to
>> sell their aircraft on the open market? I know that type of
>> question would probably lead to many different answers since
>> each airplane built is a little different from the next based
>> on builder preferences and such. For example, one guy could
>> build a strictly VFR machine while his buddy a few hangers
>> away has a hard IFR capable machine. What I'm thinking is a
>> moderate to high hp engine (235 to 260 hp) and probably light
>> duty IFR capable ( i.e. basic gauges with maybe one or two
>> EFIS displays and engine monitor). If I can reasonably assure
>> the household finance minister that I can get a good return on
>> my investment, it might sway her towards my thinking. I've
>> seen one RV-10 offered for $220,000 and a partially finished
>> a/c for $175,000. I'd assume there hasn't been many sold
>> since finished birds haven't been flying long, but any info
>> from the list is helpful.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> James K. Hovis
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
I agree with most of the assessments I've read in this thread. My plane is
almost ready to fly and I'm at $130K out of pocket. But I'll comment on the
building time... I've seen the number of 1250 hours of build time thrown out a
couple of times, I'm not sure what other people are seeing for build time
but... I am a first time builder and I'm sure that I could build faster next
time: I've put in almost 2500 hours in just over 2.5 years on my quickbuild
RV-10. Something to think about for those who are considering starting.
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 7/14/2006 9:46:58 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com writes:
Pascal,
Thanks for the kind words. As stated before, I owned an AA-1A for nearly
ten years, so as far as the sustaining costs of ownership I know what it
takes. Holding a repairman's cert for my own airplane is a real benefit to me
too. And being a past part of the airport board for H-88, only about 5 miles
from the house, I can deal with those issues too. The desire for building has
been there for quite awhile (somewhat simmered while I actually owned an
airplane) and now that the rug rats are older (can actually buck a few rivets)
and
I'm seriously missing being able to go to the airport and pull out MY
airplane anytime I want. Learning how to build an airplane was one reason I went
to
college for an AE degree (boy was I in for a shock!). And the dear wife does
like to fly. The first time I took her for a ride, I ran a C-172 off the side
of an ice-covered runway while taxiing for take off and it didn't scare her
off (wasn't serious, just got a wheel of the runway edge and stuck in a
snow/slush bank). Anyway, if I have a reasonable assurance that what money I put
into an airplane I can get back out if I sell it (and as an added benefit get
enough to build a SECOND ship), it'll help seal the deal. I figure $100K -
$125K at least. If you figure $125 /hr (not a Cessna figure mind you...) at
1250 hrs your labor is "worth" around $156K. So with $125K in materials and
equipment a fairly well equipped -10 could be "worth" $280K or so. Put in a $60K
"amateur built" knock-down factor, you get to that $220K asking price I've
seen. Still not bad!
JKH
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: Overhead Console Vent Inlet
Does Tony Sustare have a website or contact info?
cj
#40410
fuse
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 7:34 AM
Ed Hayden, who had his canopy at SNF for display at Tony
Sustare's booth for the overhead console, sent me some
photos to post. The overhead console is pressurized via
a tail inlet scoop, and Tony has that completed now. Ed
also has A/C installed in his tail, that works with the
vents. Should be impressive to see when he's flying.
Here is a link to the Mod's page where I stuck everything.
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/mods/index.html
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Belue, Kevin" <KBelue@drs-tem.com>
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: Hours to complete an RV-10
I don't understand the high build times, especially for QB. That's not a
judgement, just a curiosity. I suppose people work and measure their efforts
at different rates. Just for info, I built a slow-build RV-6A from start to
complete (flying) in 1500 hrs. I'm building a slow-build RV-10 and have 760
hrs at the point of installing the doors and expect to finish at around
1500-1700 hrs. I count the time from walking in the shop to leaving the shop
and write it down when I go through the door. The only time I study the
plans is when I'm in the shop, but I'm busy working when I'm in the shop. Do
any of you count thinking/dreaming time away from the shop?
Resale values: I think of the labor as my enjoyment and challenge of the
experience as some of you have said. I do not think of counting the hours
and charging for that as part of the resale value. But I would want the
market rate for what it should be worth. I wonder if any RV-10's have been
sold yet? I'd like to know what the market rate will be for an RV-10, not
that I want to sell mine. As bad as the outlook is, I agree with what Tim
Olson said about the future. Let's hope he is wrong!
Kevin
_____
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 12:36 PM
I agree with most of the assessments I've read in this thread. My plane is
almost ready to fly and I'm at $130K out of pocket. But I'll comment on the
building time... I've seen the number of 1250 hours of build time thrown out
a couple of times, I'm not sure what other people are seeing for build time
but... I am a first time builder and I'm sure that I could build faster next
time: I've put in almost 2500 hours in just over 2.5 years on my quickbuild
RV-10. Something to think about for those who are considering starting.
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 7/14/2006 9:46:58 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com writes:
Pascal,
Thanks for the kind words. As stated before, I owned an AA-1A for nearly
ten years, so as far as the sustaining costs of ownership I know what it
takes. Holding a repairman's cert for my own airplane is a real benefit to
me too. And being a past part of the airport board for H-88, only about 5
miles from the house, I can deal with those issues too. The desire for
building has been there for quite awhile (somewhat simmered while I actually
owned an airplane) and now that the rug rats are older (can actually buck a
few rivets) and I'm seriously missing being able to go to the airport and
pull out MY airplane anytime I want. Learning how to build an airplane was
one reason I went to college for an AE degree (boy was I in for a shock!).
And the dear wife does like to fly. The first time I took her for a ride, I
ran a C-172 off the side of an ice-covered runway while taxiing for take off
and it didn't scare her off (wasn't serious, just got a wheel of the runway
edge and stuck in a snow/slush bank). Anyway, if I have a reasonable
assurance that what money I put into an airplane I can get back out if I
sell it (and as an added benefit get enough to build a SECOND ship), it'll
help seal the deal. I figure $100K - $125K at least. If you figure $125 /hr
(not a Cessna figure mind you...) at 1250 hrs your labor is "worth" around
$156K. So with $125K in materials and equipment a fairly well equipped -10
could be "worth" $280K or so. Put in a $60K "amateur built" knock-down
factor, you get to that $220K asking price I've seen. Still not bad!
JKH
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40 ">
I don't
understand the high build times, especially for QB. That's not a
judgement, just a curiosity. I suppose people work and measure their
efforts at
different rates. Just for info, I built a slow-build RV-6A from start
to
complete (flying) in 1500 hrs. I'm building a slow-build RV-10 and have
760 hrs at the point of installing the doors and expect to finish at
around 1500-1700
hrs. I count the time from walking in the shop to leaving the shop and
write it
down when I go through the door. The only time I study the plans is
when I'm
in the shop, but I'm busy working when I'm in the shop. Do any of
you count thinking/dreaming time away from the
shop?
Resale
values: I think of the labor as my enjoyment and challenge of the
experience as
some of you have said. I do not think of counting the hours and
charging for
that as part of the resale value. But I would want the market rate for
what it
should be worth. I wonder if any RV-10's have been sold yet? I'd
like to know what the market rate will be for an RV-10, not that I want
to sell
mine. As bad as the outlook is, I agree with what Tim Olson said about
the
future. Let's hope he is wrong!
Kevin
From:
JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
[mailto:JSMcGrew(at)aol.com]
Sent: Friday, July 14,
2006 12:36
PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List:
Relative
Value for Complete RV-10's?
I agree with most of the
assessments I've
read in this thread. My plane is almost ready to fly and I'm
at $130K out
of pocket. But I'll comment on the building time... I've seen the
number of
1250 hours of build time thrown out a couple of times, I'm
not sure
what other people are seeing for build time but... I am a first time
builder
and I'm sure that I could build faster next time: I've put in
almost
2500 hours in just over 2.5 years on my quickbuild RV-10. Something to
think about
for those who are considering starting.
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 7/14/2006
9:46:58 A.M.
Mountain Daylight Time, james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com
writes:
Pascal,
Thanks for the kind
words.
As stated before, I owned an AA-1A for nearly ten years, so as far as
the
sustaining costs of ownership I know what it takes. Holding a
repairman's cert
for my own airplane is a real benefit to me too. And being a past part
of the
airport board for H-88, only about 5 miles from the house, I can deal
with
those issues too. The desire for building has been there for quite
awhile
(somewhat simmered while I actually owned an airplane) and now that the
rug
rats are older (can actually buck a few rivets) and I'm seriously
missing being
able to go to the airport and pull out MY airplane anytime I want.
Learning how
to build an airplane was one reason I went to college for an AE degree
(boy was
I in for a shock!). And the dear wife does like to fly. The first time
I took
her for a ride, I ran a C-172 off the side of an ice-covered runway
while
taxiing for take off and it didn't scare her off (wasn't serious, just
got a
wheel of the runway edge and stuck in a snow/slush bank). Anyway, if I
have a
reasonable assurance that what money I put into an airplane I can get
back out
if I sell it (and as an added benefit get enough to build a SECOND
ship), it'll
help seal the deal. I figure $100K - $125K at least. If you figure $125
/hr
(not a Cessna figure mind you...) at 1250 hrs your labor is
"worth"
around $156K. So with $125K in materials and equipment a fairly well
equipped
-10 could be "worth" $280K or so. Put in a $60K "amateur
built" knock-down factor, you get to that $220K asking price I've
seen.
Still not bad!
JKH
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Newman" <rnewman(at)lutron.com>
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: time to build
Here's another data point for those thinking about build times.
For my Dad and I, we are about way through this plane project, with no QB options.
We are well into the the Fuse kit and have the Finish kit on hand.
We've built 4 airplanes (three Glastars and one Glass Goose.) , so I think we
are pretty far up the learning curve. We really like to build and enjoy the
whole process,
( yes, even the glass work).. We are at about 1400 hrs so far. When complete,
I expect we'll be in the 3000 hr. neighborhood...
-Bob Newman 40176..
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: Hours to complete an RV-10
I am at 1280/hrs (my build time only) and I have hung the doors and other
finish kit options. I am thinking I am 6 - 9 months away and I do about
80-100 hours a month. My best guess is ~2000 hours.
Slow build
No paint
Somebody else is doing the panel
Engine being done by someone else.
Rene' Felker
40322
N423CF
Finish Kit
_____
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Belue, Kevin
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 12:18 PM
I don't understand the high build times, especially for QB. That's not a
judgement, just a curiosity. I suppose people work and measure their efforts
at different rates. Just for info, I built a slow-build RV-6A from start to
complete (flying) in 1500 hrs. I'm building a slow-build RV-10 and have 760
hrs at the point of installing the doors and expect to finish at around
1500-1700 hrs. I count the time from walking in the shop to leaving the shop
and write it down when I go through the door. The only time I study the
plans is when I'm in the shop, but I'm busy working when I'm in the shop. Do
any of you count thinking/dreaming time away from the shop?
Resale values: I think of the labor as my enjoyment and challenge of the
experience as some of you have said. I do not think of counting the hours
and charging for that as part of the resale value. But I would want the
market rate for what it should be worth. I wonder if any RV-10's have been
sold yet? I'd like to know what the market rate will be for an RV-10, not
that I want to sell mine. As bad as the outlook is, I agree with what Tim
Olson said about the future. Let's hope he is wrong!
Kevin
_____
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 12:36 PM
I agree with most of the assessments I've read in this thread. My plane is
almost ready to fly and I'm at $130K out of pocket. But I'll comment on the
building time... I've seen the number of 1250 hours of build time thrown out
a couple of times, I'm not sure what other people are seeing for build time
but... I am a first time builder and I'm sure that I could build faster next
time: I've put in almost 2500 hours in just over 2.5 years on my quickbuild
RV-10. Something to think about for those who are considering starting.
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 7/14/2006 9:46:58 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com writes:
Pascal,
Thanks for the kind words. As stated before, I owned an AA-1A for nearly
ten years, so as far as the sustaining costs of ownership I know what it
takes. Holding a repairman's cert for my own airplane is a real benefit to
me too. And being a past part of the airport board for H-88, only about 5
miles from the house, I can deal with those issues too. The desire for
building has been there for quite awhile (somewhat simmered while I actually
owned an airplane) and now that the rug rats are older (can actually buck a
few rivets) and I'm seriously missing being able to go to the airport and
pull out MY airplane anytime I want. Learning how to build an airplane was
one reason I went to college for an AE degree (boy was I in for a shock!).
And the dear wife does like to fly. The first time I took her for a ride, I
ran a C-172 off the side of an ice-covered runway while taxiing for take off
and it didn't scare her off (wasn't serious, just got a wheel of the runway
edge and stuck in a snow/slush bank). Anyway, if I have a reasonable
assurance that what money I put into an airplane I can get back out if I
sell it (and as an added benefit get enough to build a SECOND ship), it'll
help seal the deal. I figure $100K - $125K at least. If you figure $125 /hr
(not a Cessna figure mind you...) at 1250 hrs your labor is "worth" around
$156K. So with $125K in materials and equipment a fairly well equipped -10
could be "worth" $280K or so. Put in a $60K "amateur built" knock-down
factor, you get to that $220K asking price I've seen. Still not bad!
JKH
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: Overhead Console Vent Inlet
Hopefully we will get to meet up with Tony at OSH, I believe he was the force behind
that nice fiberglass panel/console that Lancair was/is?? offering for the
RV-10. I have looked but not found a website for them but I believe if you go
to Larry Rosen's site he has pics of the console and contact ingo there.
Rick S.
40185
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Conti, Rick" <rick.conti(at)boeing.com>
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: time to build
Bob,
Are you flying the Glass Goose?
Thank You
Rick Conti
The Boeing Company
Senior Engineering Manager
office: 703 - 414 - 6141
blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 2:32 PM
Here's another data point for those thinking about build times.
For my Dad and I, we are about way through this plane project, with no QB options.
We are well into the the Fuse kit and have the Finish kit on hand.
We've built 4 airplanes (three Glastars and one Glass Goose.) , so I think we
are pretty far up the learning curve. We really like to build and enjoy the
whole process,
( yes, even the glass work).. We are at about 1400 hrs so far. When complete,
I expect we'll be in the 3000 hr. neighborhood...
-Bob Newman 40176..
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Newman" <rnewman(at)lutron.com>
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: time to build
long story, but NO... we had it all the way thru high speed taxi tests, airworthyness
certificate in hand. And others started having trouble with the wings
coming off in flight. After a lot of research we decided it would never be
safe. we CUT her up and took her away.. all 10 yrs worth of building time
gone, but our lives in tact.... All useable hardware then went into the Glastars,
which do fly. !! nicely.
-Bob
>>> rick.conti(at)boeing.com 7/14/2006 3:09:30 PM >>>
Bob,
Are you flying the Glass Goose?
Thank You
Rick Conti
The Boeing Company
Senior Engineering Manager
office: 703 - 414 - 6141
blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 2:32 PM
Here's another data point for those thinking about build times.
For my Dad and I, we are about way through this plane project, with no QB options.
We are well into the the Fuse kit and have the Finish kit on hand.
We've built 4 airplanes (three Glastars and one Glass Goose.) , so I think we
are pretty far up the learning curve. We really like to build and enjoy the
whole process,
( yes, even the glass work).. We are at about 1400 hrs so far. When complete,
I expect we'll be in the 3000 hr. neighborhood...
-Bob Newman 40176..
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: Re: instrument sub-panel and electrical
Thanks for the reply Dick (and others as well). I think I'm going to end
up doing the same. but for a slightly different reason. It's 116 here in
AZ today, and will continue hot and $#@!@! for several more weeks before
starting back down the thermometer. Makes working in the garage tough,
so I ordered my radios, trnspndr, audio panel, yesterday, the Op Tech
EFIS are being built this week and will ship next week, I'm re-reading
my Aero-electric manual, So I'm going to take the next 6-? weeks and
plan and install do the electrical/radio/panel. The amount of actual
time in the garage will be limited as I can do a lot of the work indoors.
btw the pics of your install are helpful, I'd love to see anybody else
with similar pics.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred@cox-internet.com>
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: Wings/Duckworks lights.
I'm working on the slo-build wings. Getting close to section 17 and the
outboard leading edge. I helped a friend install his Duckworks lights
in his RV 6 that he just about has complete. So far, I think I will go
just with the lighting system 6 as is recommended by Vans and place the
landing lights in the wingtips. I would, however, like to cheat a
little and install the nutplates and extra wires in the left wing so
that if I decide to add a duckworks landing light at a later date, most
of the hard work will be done. Could someone who has installed the
duckworks light fax me a copy of the template for the nutplate
locations? I would be much abliged.
Fax; 903 784 3200
See you'all at Oshgosh. Wed thru Sat.
Thanks
Fred Williams
slo-building in Texas
40515
drfred@cox-internet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: GenGrumpy(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: Tony's Overhead Console Vent Inlet
To the -10 net on the overhead console:
I bought one of Tony's overhead consoles and have installed it in N184JM
already.
I am pleased with the console, and it goes in nicely if you pop rivet it into
the cabin top and then use simple silicone caulk to fill in the gaps.
However, there is a potential problem we need to address (and shame on me for
not thinking of it ahead of time).
It has to do with placement of the air inlet scoop versus the exhaust swirl
caused by prop flow coupled with the aerodynamics of the bird.
The concern is that if we are not careful in placement of the inleet scoop to
feed the tubes and console, that we will bring exhaust gases (and carbon
monoxide) into the cabin through the console.
At present, I have Tony's first production scoop that mounts directly in
front of the vertical tail.
There is significant concern that prop and exhaust swirl will suck CO into
the cabin with this placement. Van's has no data to support or disapprove of
such a cabin air inlet mounting.
I am looking at alternative placement of either Tony's scoop or installation
of a NACA scoop elsewhere on the aft fuselage to supply the air.
However, thus far we (I have a couple of aero engineers helping me) have not
been able to find any definitivie studies on this issue from either the
academic or corporate (Van's, Piper, etc) flight test world that shows what the
exhaust swirl actually looks like.
If I cannot find any definitive studies, then I will flight test a NACA vent
on the fuselage to see what CO it draws into the console/cockpit.
However, that probably won't happen till late Aug or mid Sep due to other
circumstances getting my bird into the air.
If anyone on the net has one of Tony's consoles and can test an inlet
location for CO prior to that, please let me know and I'll give you my best guess
where to mount your scoop should you decide not to use Tony's scoop and its
mounting location.
grumpy
#40404.....soon to fly!
In a message dated 7/14/2006 12:48:12 PM Central Standard Time,
CJohnston(at)popsound.com writes:
Does Tony Sustare have a website or contact info?
cj
#40410
fuse
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 7:34 AM
Ed Hayden, who had his canopy at SNF for display at Tony
Sustare's booth for the overhead console, sent me some
photos to post. The overhead console is pressurized via
a tail inlet scoop, and Tony has that completed now. Ed
also has A/C installed in his tail, that works with the
vents. Should be impressive to see when he's flying.
Here is a link to the Mod's page where I stuck everything.
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/mods/index.html
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Date: Jul 14, 2006
Subject: Re: Tony's Overhead Console Vent Inlet
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net>
Date: Jul 15, 2006
Subject: Re: instrument sub-panel, fuse and cabin cover questions
I'm not exactly sure what their price is right now, I ordered it quite
awhile back, but I think it would be in the $1,000 area. You would have
to give Stein a call to make find out for sure.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net>
Date: Jul 15, 2006
Subject: Re: instrument sub-panel, fuse and cabin cover questions
Sorry about the previous post, I forgot to sign it. Not awake yet I
quess :>}
I'm not exactly sure what their price is right now, I ordered it quite
awhile back, but I think it would be in the $1,000 range. You would have
to give Stein a call to make find out for sure.
Wayne Edgerton #40336
working on the baffling baffles
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net>
Date: Jul 15, 2006
Subject: Re: instrument sub-panel, fuse and cabin cover questions
John,
I wish I were talented enough to build that panel but unfortunately I'm
not. I bought the panel from Stein.
Wayne Edgerton #40336
working on the baffling baffle
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net>
Date: Jul 15, 2006
Subject: Re: Overhead Console Vent Inlet
Tony Sustare
Accuracy Avionics
541-388-1788
Wayne Edgerton #40336
Baffling
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tom Gesele <tgesele(at)optonline.net>
Date: Jul 15, 2006
Subject: Oil Cooler Mount
Does anyone have a suggestion on how to drive the rivet holding the oil
cooler mount to the firewall that sits behind the flange for the cooling
duct? The best I can come up with is to back-rivet while holding the plate
tight with some heavy bucking bars but if anyone has a better solution, I'd
appreciate hearing it.
Thanks,
Tom Gesele #40473
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net>
Date: Jul 15, 2006
Subject: Re: Tony's Overhead Console Vent Inlet
Hello grumpy,
I also have Tony's overhead console installed. My install didn't go
quite as easy as it sounds like your did because the plane the mold was
made from appeared to have had quite a bit of sanding work done on the
canopy before the mold was made, so we had to modify it somewhat to get
it to fit. I like the console and I'm not sorry I got it, but we
couldn't just stick it on and go. I'm still working on sealing the back
area that should abut to the baggage compartment bulkhead.
I've owned a Bonanza and a Baron and they both had air inlets around the
area where Tony has his, based on the pictures, I haven't received
anything yet, except that Beech has theirs on the side of the fairing.
On the Bonanza I never had any problem of exhaust coming into the cabin.
It would be more closely related to the 10 in that the Baron's engines
obviously wouldn't be inline with the VS.
I've attached a photo of the Bonanza placement of their air inlet. Are
you thinking that the exhaust will come under the plane and then swirl
up around the VS area? I'm not an engineer by any stretch of the
imagination, so I'm not questioning your concern, but it seems like the
exhaust would travel down and back, not down and up over the VS ??
Wayne Edgerton #40336
Engine baffling
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jul 15, 2006
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Mount
Tom,
That's what I did, I used the tapered foot of a "Z' Shaped bucking bar and back
riveted it. Matter of fact I back riveted the entire assmbly to the firewall.
Rick S.
40185
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Date: Jul 15, 2006
Subject: instrument sub-panel, fuse and cabin cover questions
Okay, that makes it two respected builders endorsements. Make note to
self, visit SteinAir booth 2030 on the Northside Wall of Exhibit Hall B,
and review their website site at www.steinair.com before departing for
OSH.
Endorsement by Tim Olson - 2005. Endorsement by Wayne Edgerton - 2006...
no commercial connection. That is enough for me to consider the
supplier.
John $00.02
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
Edgerton
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 4:24 AM
questions
John,
I wish I were talented enough to build that panel but unfortunately I'm
not. I bought the panel from Stein.
Wayne Edgerton #40336
working on the baffling baffle
________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Goodman <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jul 15, 2006
Subject: RE: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
James' question has gotten a lot of responses, but I thought I'd throw
in my two cents. When I finally complete my RV-10, it's resale value is
limited to three possibilities:
What is the most an insurance company will pay for a hull loss.
What will my wife accept for that "thing" out back after I croak.
What do I need out of it so I can move up to building an RV-13.
I sure hope that the third one is the one that comes to pass (g).
John
#40572 Vertical Stab & Rudder complete.
N711JG reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net>
Date: Jul 15, 2006
Subject: instrument sub-pane
Only problem with dealing with Stein is that they are old fashioned honest,
and a handshake or their word is solid. They have my business and a lot of
others.
Bob K
Working engine and instruments
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)cox.net>
Date: Jul 15, 2006
Subject: Re: instrument sub-panel, fuse and cabin cover questions
How about a third endorsement for SteinAir. Stein built my panel, great
price, wonderful service, great follow-up after delivery. I wouldn't buy
from anyone else, even if they told me they would beat Stein's price.
Two of my buddies also bought from Stein and one of them who is flying his
RV-6 with a duel screen GRT system he got from Stein has had nothing but
great things to say about Stein.
My first pick for a DAR fail through for me so I am waiting on a new DAR to
come down and inspect my -10 and it doesn't look like I will make OSH2006,
but if I did you would find me hanging out at Stein's booth.
Russ Daves
N710RV waiting on DAR signoff.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 11:31 AM
>
> Okay, that makes it two respected builders endorsements. Make note to
> self, visit SteinAir booth 2030 on the Northside Wall of Exhibit Hall B,
> and review their website site at www.steinair.com before departing for
> OSH.
>
> Endorsement by Tim Olson - 2005. Endorsement by Wayne Edgerton - 2006...
> no commercial connection. That is enough for me to consider the
> supplier.
>
> John $00.02
>
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
> Edgerton
> Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 4:24 AM
> questions
>
> John,
>
> I wish I were talented enough to build that panel but unfortunately I'm
> not. I bought the panel from Stein.
>
> Wayne Edgerton #40336
> working on the baffling baffle
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Jul 15, 2006
Subject: autopilot
Installing the roll servo in the right wing.
I've got the neutral position jig in place.
How do I find out what "neutral" is for the connecting rod that joins the
servo to the bellcrank?
My servos were drop shipped with pictures only, and after reviewing the
drawings online I still couldn't find a neutral setting/measurement.
Rob Wright
#392
QB Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Date: Jul 16, 2006
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Mount
Back rivet.....easy!
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 10:15 PM
>
> Does anyone have a suggestion on how to drive the rivet holding the oil
> cooler mount to the firewall that sits behind the flange for the cooling
> duct? The best I can come up with is to back-rivet while holding the plate
> tight with some heavy bucking bars but if anyone has a better solution,
> I'd
> appreciate hearing it.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom Gesele #40473
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com>
Date: Jul 15, 2006
Subject: Re: instrument sub-panel, fuse and cabin cover questions
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: PJ Seipel <seipel(at)seznam.cz>
Date: Jul 15, 2006
Subject: Re: autopilot
I adjusted it so that the arm of the servo was straight up when the
ailerons were neutral.
PJ
#40032
Robert G. Wright wrote:
>
> Installing the roll servo in the right wing.
>
> Ive got the neutral position jig in place.
>
> How do I find out what neutral is for the connecting rod that joins
> the servo to the bellcrank?
>
> My servos were drop shipped with pictures only, and after reviewing
> the drawings online I still couldnt find a neutral setting/measurement.
>
> Rob Wright
>
> #392
>
> QB Wings
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Date: Jul 15, 2006
Subject: instrument sub-pane
I second and third this statement. I have nothing but good things to say
about Stein and his staff. He has given me his honest assessment of any
of the toys I have wanted to add to my plane. He has even steered me to
his competitors to buy things, as he likes to spread the dollars to
others. I think this fact alone leads to his high customer satisfaction,
and the fact that what he says he will do, he does.
A very happy customer of Steins.
Dan Lloyd
40269 (N289DT)
Fuselage
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob.kaufmann
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 4:45 PM
Only problem with dealing with Stein is that they are old fashioned
honest,
and a handshake or their word is solid. They have my business and a lot
of
others.
Bob K
Working engine and instruments
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris" <toaster73(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jul 15, 2006
Subject: Re: Tony's Overhead Console Vent Inlet
Look at the scoop on this Bo, if you have ever seen the retractable
scoops on the early Bonanza's thats what I am going to look into doing.
It is on the center of the roof just aft or near the grab handle which
is on the right upper side of the fuselage. I am thing of a retractable
scoop just behind the lid...we'll see. Experimental and all.
http://www.beechcraft.org/vtail/p436jb/
http://www.beechcraft.org/vtail/p774S/
Chris Lucas
#40072
----- Original Message -----
From: GenGrumpy(at)aol.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 11:31 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Tony's Overhead Console Vent Inlet
To the -10 net on the overhead console:
I bought one of Tony's overhead consoles and have installed it in
N184JM already.
I am pleased with the console, and it goes in nicely if you pop rivet
it into the cabin top and then use simple silicone caulk to fill in the
gaps.
However, there is a potential problem we need to address (and shame on
me for not thinking of it ahead of time).
It has to do with placement of the air inlet scoop versus the exhaust
swirl caused by prop flow coupled with the aerodynamics of the bird.
The concern is that if we are not careful in placement of the inleet
scoop to feed the tubes and console, that we will bring exhaust gases
(and carbon monoxide) into the cabin through the console.
At present, I have Tony's first production scoop that mounts directly
in front of the vertical tail.
There is significant concern that prop and exhaust swirl will suck CO
into the cabin with this placement. Van's has no data to support or
disapprove of such a cabin air inlet mounting.
I am looking at alternative placement of either Tony's scoop or
installation of a NACA scoop elsewhere on the aft fuselage to supply the
air.
However, thus far we (I have a couple of aero engineers helping me)
have not been able to find any definitivie studies on this issue from
either the academic or corporate (Van's, Piper, etc) flight test world
that shows what the exhaust swirl actually looks like.
If I cannot find any definitive studies, then I will flight test a
NACA vent on the fuselage to see what CO it draws into the
console/cockpit.
However, that probably won't happen till late Aug or mid Sep due to
other circumstances getting my bird into the air.
If anyone on the net has one of Tony's consoles and can test an inlet
location for CO prior to that, please let me know and I'll give you my
best guess where to mount your scoop should you decide not to use Tony's
scoop and its mounting location.
grumpy
#40404.....soon to fly!
In a message dated 7/14/2006 12:48:12 PM Central Standard Time,
CJohnston(at)popsound.com writes:
Does Tony Sustare have a website or contact info?
cj
#40410
fuse
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 7:34 AM
Ed Hayden, who had his canopy at SNF for display at Tony
Sustare's booth for the overhead console, sent me some
photos to post. The overhead console is pressurized via
a tail inlet scoop, and Tony has that completed now. Ed
also has A/C installed in his tail, that works with the
vents. Should be impressive to see when he's flying.
Here is a link to the Mod's page where I stuck everything.
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/mods/index.html
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net>
Date: Jul 16, 2006
Subject: Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
---- Tim Olson wrote:
> To combine replies to another, I agree, if anyone can
> build an RV-10 to the point of finishing, in less
> than 1500 hours, I'd be pretty surprised, even if
> completely QB. My estimates would be more like:
>
> QB Complete: 1500-1700
> 1/2 QB Options: 1700-2000
> 100% Standard: 1900-2500
Not sure, but I think my QB may come in under 1000 hrs total since I am fitting
the canopy cover now, all wing construction including lighting, wiring, antennas
and servos are done, have the electrical & lighting systems in the fuse and
tested, and some avionics done. The engine is sitting a few feet away from
the firewall, and the KitLog program tells me total shop hours are currently at
487 (started the project last August 26th). At the same point on my slow build
-7A I had about 1000 shop hours in the project.
I think the difference is knowing exactly what you want to do and how to get it
done on your second RV.
But then, I might be underestimating the cabin completion issues. Will see...
-Dan Masys
#40448
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net>
Date: Jul 16, 2006
Subject: Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
---- Tim Olson wrote:
> To combine replies to another, I agree, if anyone can
> build an RV-10 to the point of finishing, in less
> than 1500 hours, I'd be pretty surprised, even if
> completely QB. My estimates would be more like:
>
> QB Complete: 1500-1700
> 1/2 QB Options: 1700-2000
> 100% Standard: 1900-2500
Not sure, but I think my QB may come in under 1000 hrs total since I am fitting
the canopy cover now, all wing construction including lighting, wiring, antennas
and servos are done, have the electrical & lighting systems in the fuse and
tested, and some avionics done. The engine is sitting a few feet away from
the firewall, and the KitLog program tells me total shop hours are currently at
487 (started the project last August 26th). At the same point on my slow build
-7A I had about 1000 shop hours in the project.
I think the difference is knowing exactly what you want to do and how to get it
done on your second RV.
But then, I might be underestimating the cabin completion issues. Will see...
-Dan Masys
#40448
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brian Douglas <bsponcil(at)belinblank.org>
Date: Jul 15, 2006
Subject: Rvator Announcement
The latest Rvator arrived the other day and even though it had been worked
over unusually hard by the gorillas at the post office, I did manage to
decipher an interesting little nugget on page 10.
"If all goes well, we will have a SIGNIFICANT PRODUCT INTRODUCTION at
AirVenture 2006 - the result of over a year's intensive work. No, not the
RV-12."
Hmmmmmmmm. Anyone "in the know" want to spoil their surprise???
-Brian
#40497
N211BD
Iowa City, IA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "KiloPapa" <kilopapa(at)antelecom.net>
Date: Jul 15, 2006
Subject: Re: Tony's Overhead Console Vent Inlet
John,
What area on the plane are you looking at for the NACA duct?
Kevin
40494
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William DeLacey" <whd721(at)msn.com>
Date: Jul 16, 2006
Subject: RV-10 vs RV-9 or 7 or 6 build time
Thanks to all who replied. I thought that the times would be close to the
same as most tasks to complete are similar. However, the biggest variable
appears to be the skill of the builder. well duh!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wentz, Don" <don.wentz(at)intel.com>
Date: Jul 16, 2006
Subject: Wings/Duckworks lights.
Fred,
Why don't you contact the nice folks at Duckworks and see if they can
help?
BTW, that would be me!
Don 'The Duck' Wentz
duckworks(at)comcast.net
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred
Williams, M.D.
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 3:47 PM
--> <drfred@cox-internet.com>
I'm working on the slo-build wings. Getting close to section 17 and the
outboard leading edge. I helped a friend install his Duckworks lights
in his RV 6 that he just about has complete. So far, I think I will go
just with the lighting system 6 as is recommended by Vans and place the
landing lights in the wingtips. I would, however, like to cheat a
little and install the nutplates and extra wires in the left wing so
that if I decide to add a duckworks landing light at a later date, most
of the hard work will be done. Could someone who has installed the
duckworks light fax me a copy of the template for the nutplate
locations? I would be much abliged.
Fax; 903 784 3200
See you'all at Oshgosh. Wed thru Sat.
Thanks
Fred Williams
slo-building in Texas
40515
drfred@cox-internet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred@cox-internet.com>
Date: Jul 16, 2006
Subject: Duckworks lights.
Oops!
Put in the wrong fax number
Correct one is : 903 784 7405
Thanks: Fred Williams
I'm working on the slo-build wings. Getting close to section 17 and the
outboard leading edge. I helped a friend install his Duckworks lights
in his RV 6 that he just about has complete. So far, I think I will go
just with the lighting system 6 as is recommended by Vans and place the
landing lights in the wingtips. I would, however, like to cheat a
little and install the nutplates and extra wires in the left wing so
that if I decide to add a duckworks landing light at a later date, most
of the hard work will be done. Could someone who has installed the
duckworks light fax me a copy of the template for the nutplate
locations? I would be much abliged.
Fax; 903 784 3200
See you'all at Oshgosh. Wed thru Sat.
Thanks
Fred Williams slo-building in Texas
40515
drfred@cox-internet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lyleap" <lyleap(at)comcast.net>
Date: Jul 16, 2006
Subject: Wings/Duckworks lights.
Don,
Would you FAX a copy of the nutplate location template to Fred, please?
Lyle Peterson
lyleap(at)comcast.net
651-653-2063
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wentz, Don
> Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 1:07 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wings/Duckworks lights.
>
>
> Fred,
> Why don't you contact the nice folks at Duckworks and see if they can
> help?
>
> BTW, that would be me!
> Don 'The Duck' Wentz
> duckworks(at)comcast.net
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred
> Williams, M.D.
> Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 3:47 PM
>
> --> <drfred@cox-internet.com>
>
> I'm working on the slo-build wings. Getting close to section 17 and the
> outboard leading edge. I helped a friend install his Duckworks lights
> in his RV 6 that he just about has complete. So far, I think I will go
> just with the lighting system 6 as is recommended by Vans and place the
> landing lights in the wingtips. I would, however, like to cheat a
> little and install the nutplates and extra wires in the left wing so
> that if I decide to add a duckworks landing light at a later date, most
> of the hard work will be done. Could someone who has installed the
> duckworks light fax me a copy of the template for the nutplate
> locations? I would be much abliged.
>
> Fax; 903 784 3200
>
> See you'all at Oshgosh. Wed thru Sat.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Fred Williams
> slo-building in Texas
> 40515
> drfred@cox-internet.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Franz" <cfranz10121(at)chartermi.net>
Date: Jul 16, 2006
Subject: IO-540 Engine Question
Jim,
The rolling tool is used to swage the tubes in place. Basically
a mandrel with three rollers that are expanded in the tube while
twisting the tool to enlarge the intake tube enough to be retained by
the crank case groove surrounding the tube. So, yes, you need to borrow
the tool in order to expand the stubs where they exit the case.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Franz
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 7:51 PM
-->
Jim,
The intake tubes are swaged into the crankcase. There is a tool
that can re-swage the induction tubes, improving the retention, but an
application of proseal around the joint will help prevent induction
leaks. When I rebuilt my O-360 I found a similar condition on two of the
four tubes. My local Lycon shop fixed the problem for about twenty
bucks. Carl Franz N410FS (reserved), N215CF RV-6 flying
-----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]
On Behalf Of jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 8:56 PM
I have a used IO-540 engine and today I removed the intake / induction
tubes that run from the sides of the oil sump up to the cylinders.
Down at the oil sump there is a flexible hose that joins the metal tubes
together. After removing the tubes I noticed that three of the six
stubs coming out of the oil sump were loose and could be moved in and
out about an 1/8 inch. I talked to a local EAA member and he said the
tubes were "rolled" in order to slightly expand them and hold them in
place.
The sealant around the tubes is the second level of sealing,
kind of the suspenders and belt routine, if you're not sure you can keep
your pants up.
The parts (gaskets etc.) you'd get from your local engine repair
facility. I get a lot of parts from AERO in the Chicago area
(800-910-1281)
Sorry for the delay, I've been busy working on the RV-10 and not keeping
up with the e-mail. Carl
So the questions are:
(1) Do I need to get / borrow a tool to roll these again? (2) Can this
be done while the sump is attached?
(3) What about using a sealant (Fuel tank sealant comes to mind) to seal
up the tubes to the oil sump vs "rolling" them again?
Also, Where is a good place to order gaskets? I would like to replace
the valve cover gaskets while I am cleaning up the outside. Need new
cylinder intake gaskets as well.
I have ordered manuals for the engine from Lycoming but they are not
here yet. I need to get part numbers.
Thanks,
Jim Combs
N40192
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Date: Jul 16, 2006
Subject: Tony's Overhead Console Vent Inlet
On a NON-Vans modified Empennage to Vertical/Horizontal fairing. If
necessary, will have a DER determine move to the vertical with necessary
reinforcement and running of airflow through a composite 180 degree duct
down through the lightening hole and then back forward onto the aft
baggage bulkhead for the conditioning/control plenum.
Fairings are getting lots of attention due to drag and QOW on the
composite parts.
John
40600
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of KiloPapa
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 10:18 PM
John,
What area on the plane are you looking at for the NACA duct?
Kevin
40494
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
Date: Jul 16, 2006
Subject: Gear Mount install
hey all -
made tons of progress on the fuse this weekend, but i left off at the
temp install of the gear mount (where you mark and drill the holes for
the floor rib. i cursed a bit, and wiggled, pushed, tapped, and
otherwise made my best effort to cajole the things into place, but they
are fighting me... anyone else have any trouble with this part? i have
the left one in, but i don't know how i'll get it back out - the bolts
were really tight to get in... the right one won't line up at all.
anyone have to apply a bit of judicious buffing or clearancing of things
in the neighborhood? harrumph.
cj
#40410
fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
Date: Jul 17, 2006
Subject: Gear Mount install
Chris,
Fear not - you are not alone.
I too had to work pretty hard to get the gear mounts installed. First
thing to check is that you have no interference with the forward gear
mount brace against the outboard forward seat rail support. I needed to
grind a bit off (the seat support) for clearance. I also found that I
needed to sacrifice a few AN3-14 or -15 bolts to make alignment pins.
Once the holes were aligned, the bolts went in with a bit of Boelube. I
think I needed to run the drill through a few holes that were out by a
few thou'.
cheers,
Ron
#187
fuse/finishing
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
Sent: Monday, 17 July 2006 2:48 PM
hey all -
made tons of progress on the fuse this weekend, but i left off at the
temp install of the gear mount (where you mark and drill the holes for
the floor rib. i cursed a bit, and wiggled, pushed, tapped, and
otherwise made my best effort to cajole the things into place, but they
are fighting me... anyone else have any trouble with this part? i have
the left one in, but i don't know how i'll get it back out - the bolts
were really tight to get in... the right one won't line up at all.
anyone have to apply a bit of judicious buffing or clearancing of things
in the neighborhood? harrumph.
cj
#40410
fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net>
Date: Jul 17, 2006
Subject: Re: Quick Build (QB) Wings
They just sent it out to me. I didn't even realize that it existed until
I received it. Maybe you could give them a call and see where yours is.
Wayne Edgerton # 40336
baffling
________________________________________________________________________________
From: EAAINC(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 17, 2006
Subject: Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials
I have been asked to announce that Eggenfellner Does have turbocharged 220HP