RV10-Archive.digest.vol-by

January 15, 2007 - January 20, 2007



      >>
      >>That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion
      >>they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only
      >>provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what
      >>you want to....
      >>http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price
      >>list and options available.
      >>Dan
      >>N289DT
      >>
      >>   _____
      >>
      >>From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
      >>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis
      >>Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
      >>To: RV10-List(at)matronics.com
      >>Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage
      >>
      >>
      >> >They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and
      >> >they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it
      >> >certified here though.
      >> >Dan
      >> >
      >>Dan,
      >>
      >>"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of
      >>this $85K on Van's (?) website.
      >>William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
      >>http://nerv10.com/
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      
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From: "Paul Grimstad" <bldgrv10450(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Empennage
Date: Jan 15, 2007
John Van's quick build kits are $4,800 for wings and $6,000 for the fuselage. I gather from what advanced builders say about the fiberglass experience, that a well designed and ready to install cabin cover, with an improved door system should cost near the range of the other Van's Q/B kits. Say $5K for starters. The real draw will probably be the design, plus workmanship and ease of installation. The spinner, cowling and plenum, again nicely crafted and designed with improved air handling intake and oversized easy to open dip stick access should fetch just North of $2K. How does weight compare for the C/F vs F/G? Excellent fit and finish that match the quality of the airplanes we are building would be great. Where do I place my order? Paul Grimstad RV10 40450 rudder pedals and fuselage Portland, OR 97219 ----- Original Message ----- From: John W. Cox To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:38 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges, improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards. This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up to the Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl. John Cox #40600 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R. Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what you want to.... http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price list and options available. Dan N289DT ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM To: RV10-List(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage >They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and >they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it >certified here though. >Dan > Dan, "They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of this $85K on Van's (?) website. William Curtis -SB about to fit lid http://nerv10.com/ href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://foru ms.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill & Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Empennage
Date: Jan 15, 2007
So far up to this point I have decided to go slow build on the metal kits (wing and fuse) because I enjoy that part of it. Money is also an issue. However, I have absolutely no experience with fiberglass/carbon fiber so I would definitely be interested. Some of the money I save on the slow build kits could be put into a QB canopy. If you can come up with something PLEASE keep us informed!!! At the rate I'm building I won't need the parts until about April 2012 anyway so I'll give you plenty of time!!! Bill RV-10 Emp #40137 ----- Original Message ----- From: John W. Cox To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:38 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges, improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards. This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up to the Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl. John Cox #40600 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R. Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what you want to.... http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price list and options available. Dan N289DT ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM To: RV10-List(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage >They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and >they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it >certified here though. >Dan > Dan, "They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of this $85K on Van's (?) website. William Curtis -SB about to fit lid http://nerv10.com/ href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://foru ms.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 1/15/2007 11:04 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: "Mike Lauritsen - Work" <mike(at)cleavelandtool.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Empennage
I would be interested. I stand firmly behind the word and spirit of the 51% rule. However I love aluminum and hate the glass. I am building a slow build kit (read very very slow) so if I could buy a completed lid and door system that was ready to rivet on I would jump on it and I would still be in the 51%. Same with cowl, pants, fairings... If it could be done to the point of super quality work primed and ready to paint it would be worth the money for me, after all what did I save on the QB aluminum parts? Mike -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John W. Cox > *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage > > > My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested and > how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment complete > which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter weight, roll > bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges, improved locks with > fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Empennage
Niko, be veeeeeeeeeeery careful to rivet a carbon fiber part onto aluminum with aluminum rivets. Between carbon and aluminum you have a large difference in electrical potential, this will cause severe corrosion of the aluminum part. So some sort of glass inserts and coverage of the carbon needs to be done to avoid bad surprises or a coating of the aluminum of some kind.. br Werner Niko wrote: > Hi John, > > I haven't thought about this much, however, for a considerably > lighter graphite canopy thats "almost ready to rivet in place" with an > overhead similar to what Accuracy Avionics provides here is where how > much I would be willing to part with. > > - at 1K to 2K above Vans rebate it would be a great deal and a no > brainer for me. > - at 3K to 4K above Vans rebate I would have to think about it. > Depends on how much lighter, and how good the fit is. > - at 5K above Vans rebate it would a bit expensive to justify. > > Niko > 40188 > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: John W. Cox <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38:18 AM > Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage > > My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested > and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment > complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter > weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges, > improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards. > > > > This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right > thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up > to the Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that > $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl. > > > > */ John Cox /* > */#40600/* > > * From: * owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Lloyd, > Daniel R. > *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage > > > > That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of > completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for > 51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you > can do with it what you want to.... > > http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price > list and options available. > > Dan > > N289DT > > > > * From: * owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *W. Curtis > *Sent:* Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM > *To:* RV10-List(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: RE: Empennage > >>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and >>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it >>certified here though. >>Dan >> > Dan, > > "They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention > of this $85K on Van's (?) website. > William Curtis -SB about to fit lid > http://nerv10.com/ > >* * > >* * > >* href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List * > >* href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com * > >* * > >* * > >* * > >* * > >* * > >* * > >* * > >* * > >* * > >* http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List * > >* * > >* * > >* * > >* http://forums.matronics.com * > >* * > >* * > >* http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List=== > > * > > >* > > > * > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: Empennage
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
John For myself I would be willing to pay a $3-4K premium for a better top with doors and console already fit, final trim to mount. Much more than that I would be hard pressed not to do it myself. Dan _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges, improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards. This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up to the Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl. John Cox #40600 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R. Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what you want to.... http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price list and options available. Dan N289DT _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage >They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and >they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it >certified here though. >Dan > Dan, "They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of this $85K on Van's (?) website. William Curtis -SB about to fit lid http://nerv10.com/ href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic s .com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cloudvalley(at)comcast.net
Subject: RE: Empennage
Date: Jan 15, 2007
Hello, My wife and I would be interested in this better fiberglass canopy and cowl. We would like to know how much additional cost there would be, and who manufactures them. We are not nearly at that point yet, but we want to keep infomed. Just finished our empennage Brian and Ruth Preston #40666 -------------- Original message -------------- From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges, improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards. This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up to the Builders QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl. John Cox #40600 From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R. Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what you want to.... http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price list and options available. Dan N289DT From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage >They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and >they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it >certified here though. >Dan > Dan, "They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of this $85K on Van's (?) website. William Curtis -SB about to fit lid http://nerv10.com/ href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com
Hello,
My wife and I would be interested in this better fiberglass canopy and cowl. We would like to know how much additional cost there  would be, and who manufactures them. We are not nearly at that point yet, but  we want to keep infomed. Just finished  our empennage
Brian and Ruth Preston
#40666
 

My question remains unanswered.  How many builders would be interested and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule?  Carbon fiber, lighter weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges, improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards.

 

This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up to the Builders QC standard.  We are the builders.  I understand that $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl.

 

John Cox
#40600


From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R.
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage

 

That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what you want to....

http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price list and options available.

Dan

N289DT

 


From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
To: RV10-List(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage

>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and
>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it
>certified here though.
>Dan
>
Dan,

"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of this $85K on Van's (?) website.
William Curtis -SB about to fit lid
http://nerv10.com/

 
 
h
      ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
 
 
 
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
 

      
      
      

      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: Empennage
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: "Tom Deutsch" <deutscht(at)rhwhotels.com>
Just thought I would add that I am just finishing my wheel, leg, and intersection fairings for paint. Between install and lining them up and getting them ready for final paint I believe this has been the most time consuming of all the single tasks so far. (as stated previously it is much easier to mount and line them before the engine is hung and the wings are on) So for those who haven't gotten this far don't get hug up on the top and doors. IMHO the Van's kits are much easier than any of the other kits out there. 30 or 40 hours working on the cover and doors isn't much. Besides it is good glass experience if you ever need to make a repair. Tom Deutsch, #40545 Office 913 451-1222 Fax 913 451-6493 Cell 913 908-7752 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Grimstad Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:40 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Empennage John Van's quick build kits are $4,800 for wings and $6,000 for the fuselage. I gather from what advanced builders say about the fiberglass experience, that a well designed and ready to install cabin cover, with an improved door system should cost near the range of the other Van's Q/B kits. Say $5K for starters. The real draw will probably be the design, plus workmanship and ease of installation. The spinner, cowling and plenum, again nicely crafted and designed with improved air handling intake and oversized easy to open dip stick access should fetch just North of $2K. How does weight compare for the C/F vs F/G? Excellent fit and finish that match the quality of the airplanes we are building would be great. Where do I place my order? Paul Grimstad RV10 40450 rudder pedals and fuselage Portland, OR 97219 ----- Original Message ----- From: John W. Cox <mailto:johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:38 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges, improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards. This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up to the Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl. John Cox #40600 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R. Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what you want to.... http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price list and options available. Dan N289DT ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM To: RV10-List(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage >They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and >they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it >certified here though. >Dan > Dan, "They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of this $85K on Van's (?) website. William Curtis -SB about to fit lid http://nerv10.com/ href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic s .com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic s .com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: Niko <owl40188(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Empennage
Thanks for the advice Werner. I actually had no intention of using aluminu m rivets on the graphite. That's not a show stopper though, we can use ste el rivets, better yet, titanium ones if they are available or maybe do som ething really different and bond it in place. It will probably have a high er joint strength than the current pop riveted one.=0A=0A I have already d one a lot of work on my cabin top so I am not in the market for another one just trying to answer the question John asked.=0A =0ANiko=0A40188=0A=0A--- -- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net>=0ATo: r v10-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, January 15, 2007 12:27:34 PM=0ASubje ct: Re: RV10-List: RE: Empennage=0A=0ANiko,=0A=0Abe veeeeeeeeeeery careful to rivet a carbon fiber part onto aluminum with aluminum rivets. Between ca rbon and aluminum you have a large difference in electrical potential, this will cause severe corrosion of the aluminum part.=0A=0ASo some sort of gla ss inserts and coverage of the carbon needs to be done to avoid bad surpris es or a coating of the aluminum of some kind..=0A=0Abr=0A=0AWerner=0A=0ANik o wrote: =0AHi John,=0A =0A I haven't thought about this much, however, for a considerably lighter graphite canopy thats "almost ready to rivet in pla ce" with an overhead similar to what Accuracy Avionics provides here is whe re how much I would be willing to part with.=0A =0A- at 1K to 2K above Vans rebate it would be a great deal and a no brainer for me.=0A- at 3K to 4K a bove Vans rebate I would have to think about it. Depends on how much light er, and how good the fit is.=0A- at 5K above Vans rebate it would a bit exp ensive to justify.=0A =0ANiko=0A40188=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ---- =0AFrom: John W. Cox <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>=0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38:18 AM=0ASubject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage=0A=0A=0AMy question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, ligh ter weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges, impro ved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards. =0A =0AThis would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right thi ng by crediting builders who find the composite components not up to the Bu ilder=92s QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl. =0A =0AJohn Cox =0A# 40600 =0AFrom: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list -server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R.=0ASent: Monday, Januar y 15, 2007 7:10 AM=0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage =0A =0AThat is because it is not offered through Vans. The l evel of completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what you want to.... =0Ahttp://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.h tm contact them for a price list and options available. =0ADan =0AN289DT =0A =0AFrom: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list- server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis=0ASent: Sunday, January 14, 20 07 11:37 PM=0ATo: RV10-List(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: RV10-List: RE: Empenna ge =0A>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders a nd=0A>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it=0A >certified here though.=0A>Dan =0A>=0ADan,=0A=0A"They" who and to which web site are your referring? I see no mention of this $85K on Van's (?) website .=0AWilliam Curtis -SB about to fit lid=0Ahttp://nerv10.com/ =0A =0A =0A href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matron ics.com/Navigator?RV10-List =0A href="http://forums.matronics.com">http:/ /forums.matronics.com =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A h ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List =0A =0A =0A =0A http://forum s.matronics.com =0A =0A =0A http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List ======= ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Cabin Cover Aft Flange Fit
Niko, that's exactly what I experienced. The plans say to trim (3/4"?) from the joggle, but it appears that the joggle is off as if meets the fuse side skins. There is still enough edge distance for the pop rivets and the backing strip fit without any twisting. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Niko wrote: > I have been fitting the Cabin Cover on this past weekend. The fit of > the Cabin Cover aft flange to the tailcone skin is good at the top of > the cabin cover however it opens up a bit (1/8) as one gets to the > bottom of the Cabin cover aft flange. There is still enough edge > distance for the fasteners left (about 1/4 in). > > I am wondering if thats typicall of what others have seen. > > Thanks > > Niko > 40188 > >* > > >* > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Empennage - James Cowl
Here's a link to pics of my Will James Cowl, arrived Fri. A QUALITY part! (Will makes the Cowls & Sam (his father) makes the Plenum) http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2047%20Spinner%20and%20Cowling/index.html Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Chris Johnston wrote: > Just thought Id chime in here I just sent my check off for my Sam > James RV-10 Cowl, and I do have my standard cowl here as well, so when > the new cowl comes Ill give a pirep and snap some pics illustrating > the differences in quality and shape. I got the RV-10 cowl for the > standard, not the cold air induction. Well see. > > cj > > #40410 > > fuse > > www.perfectlygoodairplane.net > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Phillips, > Jack > *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 7:53 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage > > I would be interested, depending on cost. I also intend to buy a > Wholly Cowl for my RV-10. > > Jack Phillips > > #40610 > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John W. Cox > *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage > > My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested > and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment > complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter > weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges, > improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards. > > This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right > thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up > to the Builders QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that > $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl. > > */John Cox/* > */#40600/* > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Lloyd, > Daniel R. > *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage > > That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of > completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for > 51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you > can do with it what you want to.... > > http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price > list and options available. > > Dan > > N289DT > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *W. Curtis > *Sent:* Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM > *To:* RV10-List(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: RE: Empennage > >>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and >>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it >>certified here though. >>Dan >> > Dan, > > "They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention > of this $85K on Van's (?) website. > William Curtis -SB about to fit lid > http://nerv10.com/ > >* * > >* * > >*href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > >*href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com* > >* * > >* * > >* * > >*< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > >*< /span>< /span>http://forums.matronics.com* > >* * > >* * > >* * > >*< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > >*< /span>< /span>http://forums.matronics.com* > >* * > >* * > >*_________________________________________________* > >* * > > >* * > >*Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N* > >* * > >* * > >** > >* - The RV10-List Email Forum -* > >** > >** > >** > >** > >* --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > >** > >* - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -* > >** > >* --> http://forums.matronics.com* > >** > >* * > >* > > >* > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Empennage
$2K would be a bargain! a 14" composite spinner is $1k, the James Cowl is $1200 and the plenum is $475 (add shipping to all of those $'s). Add the cost of the Carbon fiber ($$) and I think you would expect to pay more like $4k + for that package. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Paul Grimstad wrote: > John > > The spinner, cowling and plenum, again nicely crafted and designed > with improved air handling intake and oversized easy to open dip stick > access should fetch just North of $2K. > > >* >* > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: Cabin Cover Aft Flange Fit
Date: Jan 15, 2007
Niko, Not sure what you mean by "it opens up 1/8". I don't remember having such trouble. However, any time you have many mediums meet, such as on the side s where the cover meet the tailcone skin and side skins, it gets thick and takes a little time to get it right. Anh N591VU-6.5hrs ----- Original Message ----- From: Niko To: Matronics Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:59 AM Subject: RV10-List: Cabin Cover Aft Flange Fit I have been fitting the Cabin Cover on this past weekend. The fit of the Cabin Cover aft flange to the tailcone skin is good at the top of the cabi n cover however it opens up a bit (1/8) as one gets to the bottom of the Ca bin cover aft flange. There is still enough edge distance for the fastener s left (about 1/4 in). I am wondering if thats typicall of what others have seen. Thanks Niko 40188 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <rvmail(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Empennage
Date: Jan 15, 2007
My empennage kit is currently someplace between Omaha and Chicago, so I haven't really even thought about this yet. However, Niko's logic seems to be in line with how I might view the situation. bob > > From: Niko <owl40188(at)yahoo.com> > Date: 2007/01/15 Mon AM 11:36:26 EST > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Empennage > > Hi John, > I haven't thought about this much, however, for a considerably lighter graphite canopy thats "almost ready to rivet in place" with an overhead similar to what Accuracy Avionics provides here is where how much I would be willing to part with. > - at 1K to 2K above Vans rebate it would be a great deal and a no brainer for me. > - at 3K to 4K above Vans rebate I would have to think about it. Depends on how much lighter, and how good the fit is. > - at 5K above Vans rebate it would a bit expensive to justify. > Niko > 40188 > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: John W. Cox <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38:18 AM > Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage > > My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges, improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards. > > This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up to the Builders QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl. > > John Cox > #40600 > > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R. > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage > > That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what you want to.... > http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price list and options available. > Dan > N289DT > > > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis > Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM > To: RV10-List(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage > >They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and > >they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it > >certified here though. > >Dan > > > Dan, > "They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of this $85K on Van's (?) website. > William Curtis -SB about to fit lid > http://nerv10.com/ > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Li================ > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Panel install
Date: Jan 15, 2007
Yeow! Except for a couple switch types and placements, that's almost exactly what I had designed. Great job! Good ergonomics. John Jessen _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 8:59 AM Subject: RV10-List: Panel install My first send of this message got kicked back to me saying that it was to large with the attachments I had so I've cut it down, I hope, to size. If any of you would like to see any of the other install pictures just e-mail me and I will forward them to you. Lets try this again :>} ----- Original Message ----- From: Wayne <mailto:wayne.e(at)grandecom.net> Edgerton Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 7:07 AM Subject: Panel install We are in the process of installing my instrument panel and I thought I would share a couple of photos with you. Stein's group built my panel and even though it has been a while in the making, it was well worth the wait for me. I think it turned out great. I'm certainly glad I didn't have to rely on my skill set to install this puppy or I would be in the deep you know what. I'm pretty much a neophyte when it comes to electrical stuff. For me it's seems at times I can get frustrated with the process and the delays one runs into in this journey we are all taking but when you see it coming together like this it all pops back into focus that this thing maybe is really going to fly someday :>} Stein was telling me that he just wrote an article for Kit Plane Magazine about panel building and installation and he said they will use some of the photos from my instrument install in that article. If some of you are like me and only receive the daily Matronics summary, which usually doesn't include photo attachments, and you would like to see the photos I'm sending, just e-mail me and I will forward them on to you. Wayne Edgerton #40336 getting the itch to fly this puppy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: "Mike Lauritsen - Work" <mike(at)cleavelandtool.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Empennage
I wanted to make clear that I am not complaining about the stock fiberglass parts. I just see others experiences and the time they spend with the parts. I have messed with the glass just enough to know that I really don't like working with it, and don't want to spend my time there. I don't want the kit price to go up so that the stock parts get better. I am positive from my 15 years in the market that working with it is well within the realm of the average builder. In my situation I would just like to see an after market solution to fill a small part of the market that would like a 'quick build' fiberglass kit. Mike On 1/15/07, Mike Lauritsen - Work wrote: > > > I would be interested. I stand firmly behind the word and spirit of the > 51% rule. However I love aluminum and hate the glass. I am building a slow > build kit (read very very slow) so if I could buy a completed lid and door > system that was ready to rivet on I would jump on it and I would still be in > the 51%. Same with cowl, pants, fairings... If it could be done to the > point of super quality work primed and ready to paint it would be worth the > money for me, after all what did I save on the QB aluminum parts? > > Mike > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cloudvalley(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: RE: Empennage
Date: Jan 15, 2007
Hello, If the stock parts of FG are as bad as I am hearing, I would complain. The kit costs a lot of money, and there is a lot of time involved in building it. I would like to see more QC if workmanship is the issue with the FG. I hope VANs gets this resolved. I have not bought the main part of the kit yet; I was told that the fiberglass is easy by VANs. I hope that turns out to be true, Brian and Ruth #40666 -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Mike Lauritsen - Work" <mike(at)cleavelandtool.com> I wanted to make clear that I am not complaining about the stock fiberglass parts. I just see others experiences and the time they spend with the parts. I have messed with the glass just enough to know that I really don't like working with it, and don't want to spend my time there. I don't want the kit price to go up so that the stock parts get better. I am positive from my 15 years in the market that working with it is well within the realm of the average builder. In my situation I would just like to see an after market solution to fill a small part of the market that would like a 'quick build' fiberglass kit. Mike On 1/15/07, Mike Lauritsen - Work wrote: I would be interested. I stand firmly behind the word and spirit of the 51% rule. However I love aluminum and hate the glass. I am building a slow build kit (read very very slow) so if I could buy a completed lid and door system that was ready to rivet on I would jump on it and I would still be in the 51%. Same with cowl, pants, fairings... If it could be done to the point of super quality work primed and ready to paint it would be worth the money for me, after all what did I save on the QB aluminum parts? Mike
Hello,
 If the stock parts of FG are as bad as I am hearing, I would complain. The kit costs a lot of money, and there is a lot of time involved in building it. I would like to see more QC if  workmanship is the issue with the FG. I hope VANs gets this resolved. I have not bought the main part of the kit yet; I was told that the fiberglass is easy by VANs. I hope that turns out to be true,
Brian and Ruth
#40666
 
I wanted to make clear that I am not complaining about the stock fiberglass parts.  I just see others experiences and the time they spend with the parts.  I have messed with the glass just enough to know that I really don't like working with it, and don't want to spend my time there.  I don't want the kit price to go up so that the stock parts get better.  I am positive from my 15 years in the market that working with it is well within the realm of the average builder.  In my situation I would just like to see an after market solution to fill a small part of the market that would like a 'quick build' fiberglass kit.

Mike


On 1/15/07, Mike Lauritsen - Work <mike(at)cleavelandtool.com> wrote:

I would be interested.  I stand firmly behind the word and spirit of the 51% rule.  However I love aluminum and hate the glass.  I am building a slow build kit (read very very slow) so if I could buy a completed lid and door system that was ready to rivet on I would jump on it and I would still be in the 51%.  Same with cowl, pants, fairings...  If it could be done to the point of super quality work primed and ready to paint it would be worth the money for me, after all what did I save on the QB aluminum parts?

Mike



      
      
      

      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Computer Wars
http://x-plane.com/weapon.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Hukill To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 8:12 AM Subject: RV10-List: Computer Wars At the risk of starting a whole new war, let me say that I use Macs for all of my audio, video, photography needs. Just try it and you'll see why. My PCs are used only for business software compatibility issues, but I still run Windows 98 so I can maintain SCSI support for some of my old, pre USB / Firewire gear, and more importantly, because most of the a**holes that write bugs don't bother with '98 anymore. Chris Hukill still in home remodel hiatus back to gear fairings,soon ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: James Cowl & plenum
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
Hey Deems - Are you using the plenum? I've not really decided, and was wondering if others had thoughts about it. I don't know much about the mechanics of it, but it seems like it'd improve cooling etc. Also it (I guess) would reduce stress on the cowl and attachments, as the plenum is pressurized and not the entire cowl. Am I incorrect here? What about inspecting the engine through the oil filler hole? You wouldn't see the top of the engine there - is that a bummer? Also, doesn't the engine get hot where it gets close to the plenum? Is this a problem? I'd love any info before I go calling Sam about it. cj #40410 fuse www.perfectlygoodairplane.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:56 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Empennage - James Cowl Here's a link to pics of my Will James Cowl, arrived Fri. A QUALITY part! (Will makes the Cowls & Sam (his father) makes the Plenum) http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2047%20Spinner%20and%20Cowling/index.html Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Chris Johnston wrote: > Just thought I'd chime in here - I just sent my check off for my Sam > James RV-10 Cowl, and I do have my standard cowl here as well, so when > the new cowl comes I'll give a pirep and snap some pics illustrating > the differences in quality and shape. I got the RV-10 cowl for the > standard, not the cold air induction. We'll see. > > cj > > #40410 > > fuse > > www.perfectlygoodairplane.net > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Phillips, > Jack > *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 7:53 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage > > I would be interested, depending on cost. I also intend to buy a > Wholly Cowl for my RV-10. > > Jack Phillips > > #40610 > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John W. Cox > *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage > > My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested > and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment > complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter > weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges, > improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards. > > This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right > thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up > to the Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that > $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl. > > */John Cox/* > */#40600/* > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Lloyd, > Daniel R. > *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage > > That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of > completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for > 51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you > can do with it what you want to.... > > http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price > list and options available. > > Dan > > N289DT > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *W. Curtis > *Sent:* Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM > *To:* RV10-List(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: RE: Empennage > >>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and >>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it >>certified here though. >>Dan >> > Dan, > > "They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention > of this $85K on Van's (?) website. > William Curtis -SB about to fit lid > http://nerv10.com/ > >* * > >* * > >*href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matroni cs.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > >*href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com* > >* * > >* * > >* * > >*< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > >*< /span>< /span>http://forums.matronics.com* > >* * > >* * > >* * > >*< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > >*< /span>< /span>http://forums.matronics.com* > >* * > >* * > >*_________________________________________________* > >* * > > >* * > >*Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N* > >* * > >* * > >** > >* - The RV10-List Email Forum -* > >** > >** > >** > >** > >* --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > >** > >* - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -* > >** > >* --> http://forums.matronics.com* > >** > >* * > >* > > >* > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: "Mike Lauritsen - Work" <mike(at)cleavelandtool.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Empennage
Again 'bad' is a relative term. In 1988 I remember Buzz cutting each wingtip on the -4 down the chord line, then in half again, and glassing them back together to get them to fit right. Compared to that the new stuff is 'good'. But the whole kit was around $6000 then too. So do you want the kit cost to go up to get better parts or do you want to put in the work? I don't think that it should be a mandatory change for everyone, but rather an after market offering if there is someone willing to provide it. On 1/15/07, cloudvalley(at)comcast.net wrote: > > Hello, > If the stock parts of FG are as bad as I am hearing, I would complain. > The kit costs a lot of money, and there is a lot of time involved in > building it. I would like to see more QC if workmanship is the issue with > the FG. I hope VANs gets this resolved. I have not bought the main part of > the kit yet; I was told that the fiberglass is easy by VANs. I hope that > turns out to be true, > Brian and Ruth > #40666 > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "Mike Lauritsen - Work" <mike(at)cleavelandtool.com> > I wanted to make clear that I am not complaining about the stock > fiberglass parts. I just see others experiences and the time they spend > with the parts. I have messed with the glass just enough to know that I > really don't like working with it, and don't want to spend my time there. I > don't want the kit price to go up so that the stock parts get better. I am > positive from my 15 years in the market that working with it is well within > the realm of the average builder. In my situation I would just like to see > an after market solution to fill a small part of the market that would like > a 'quick build' fiberglass kit. > > Mike > > > On 1/15/07, Mike Lauritsen - Work wrote: > > > > > > I would be interested. I stand firmly behind the word and spirit of the > > 51% rule. However I love aluminum and hate the glass. I am building a slow > > build kit (read very very slow) so if I could buy a completed lid and door > > system that was ready to rivet on I would jump on it and I would still be in > > the 51%. Same with cowl, pants, fairings... If it could be done to the > > point of super quality work primed and ready to paint it would be worth the > > money for me, after all what did I save on the QB aluminum parts? > > > > Mike > > > > > > * > > * > > * > > > * > > -- Mike Lauritsen Cleaveland Aircraft Tool 515-432-6794 www.cleavelandtool.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: Empennage
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Mike your perspective is a fresh and as objective a view as anyone could find in this industry. At a point, many builders might opt out of the process as the QB prices climb. This would be good for no one. Clearly, there are builders who will willingly convert money for time saved. There are several factors at work in the market research. How in the world did so many builders throw money at products without knowing who was getting the money and if the product would ever be shipped? The second is how can a great company let products which could clearly be improved, remain somewhat inferior and prone to premature failure? Cracks in ribs and exposure of matrix material does not make for an acceptable product mix. A pattern which beckons for improvement, this then causes market corrections in both Direction and Velocity. Simply the Facts. I would bet most of the builders did not ever question the D2 relationship as it bloomed into its current configuration. I lusted after the robust features of EFIS in my own kit. Most supporters are those who got their products. Most detractors are those who are holding a partially empty bag. I would also bet that most builders are not even aware of how many canopies have been returned and replaced to correct defects of either manufacture or shipping. These are all good points to share in an open and free flowing forum. Now, If I lived across the great pond.... My hearing would be even more attuned during these times of atmospheric static. Anyone heard of how many RV-10 kits have gone to South Africa? Your work at providing products and tools has made my build experience more enjoyable. Thank you. Market forces help shape both quality, price and quantity. Why even the non creditable, mandated Oregon Aero seat has improvements to the latch mechanism from outside the company. It has been heartening to see the improvements in the James composite products and how many builders are opting for the "improved over factory" product. I too support 51% rules and oppose production shops that flaunt their violation in pursuit of a buck. I will continue to be patient that the wolves guarding the hen house have all of us egg layers best interests at heart. Just imagine OSHkosh Control acknowledging a formation of 700+ RV-10s off Warbird Island coming in for a mass landing at OSH some sunny afternoon in July. John Cox #600 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Lauritsen - Work Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 11:22 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Empennage I wanted to make clear that I am not complaining about the stock fiberglass parts. I just see others experiences and the time they spend with the parts. I have messed with the glass just enough to know that I really don't like working with it, and don't want to spend my time there. I don't want the kit price to go up so that the stock parts get better. I am positive from my 15 years in the market that working with it is well within the realm of the average builder. In my situation I would just like to see an after market solution to fill a small part of the market that would like a 'quick build' fiberglass kit. Mike On 1/15/07, Mike Lauritsen - Work wrote: I would be interested. I stand firmly behind the word and spirit of the 51% rule. However I love aluminum and hate the glass. I am building a slow build kit (read very very slow) so if I could buy a completed lid and door system that was ready to rivet on I would jump on it and I would still be in the 51%. Same with cowl, pants, fairings... If it could be done to the point of super quality work primed and ready to paint it would be worth the money for me, after all what did I save on the QB aluminum parts? Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Computer Wars
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Designed by MAC to run on a PC! Ain't life grand, you have to design for the masses, and the masses chose Microsoft/Intel. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 2:57 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Computer Wars http://x-plane.com/weapon.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Hukill <mailto:cjhukill(at)cox.net> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 8:12 AM Subject: RV10-List: Computer Wars At the risk of starting a whole new war, let me say that I use Macs for all of my audio, video, photography needs. Just try it and you'll see why. My PCs are used only for business software compatibility issues, but I still run Windows 98 so I can maintain SCSI support for some of my old, pre USB / Firewire gear, and more importantly, because most of the a**holes that write bugs don't bother with '98 anymore. Chris Hukill still in home remodel hiatus back to gear fairings,soon href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic s .com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: Niko <owl40188(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Cabin Cover Aft Flange Fit
View it as the overlap between the Cabin Cover aft flange and the tailcone upper skin. Ideally this overlap should be about 0.70 inches all around (0 .050 inch gap is assumed here) for me its about 0.65 inches on the top cen ter and goes down to 0.30 inches as you move down the sides. I don't think it can be changed easily as the elevation angle of the Canopy Cover would have to change (angle of attack) which would shift this problem along the Cabin Side Flange to fuselage side skin attachment as the current fit there is great. =0A=0AI hope this is clear.=0A=0A=0ANiko=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: DejaVu <wvu(at)ameritel.net>=0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.c om=0ASent: Monday, January 15, 2007 2:12:02 PM=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: Ca bin Cover Aft Flange Fit=0A=0A=0ANiko,=0ANot sure what you mean by "it open s up 1/8". I don't remember having such trouble. However, any time you ha ve many mediums meet, such as on the sides where the cover meet the tailcon e skin and side skins, it gets thick and takes a little time to get it righ t.=0AAnh=0AN591VU-6.5hrs=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: Niko =0ATo : Matronics =0ASent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:59 AM=0ASubject: RV10-List: Cabin Cover Aft Flange Fit=0A=0A=0AI have been fitting the Cabin Cover on this past weekend. The fit of the Cabin Cover aft flange to the tailcone s kin is good at the top of the cabin cover however it opens up a bit (1/8) a s one gets to the bottom of the Cabin cover aft flange. There is still eno ugh edge distance for the fasteners left (about 1/4 in).=0A =0AI am wonderi ng if thats typicall of what others have seen. =0A =0AThanks=0A =0ANiko=0A4 0188=0A=0A=0Ap://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List=0Aics.com=0A=0A=0A ======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Re: Derburring Rib Flange Slots
Date: Jan 15, 2007
I use the Cogsdill and other than a couple broken blades, really like them. However, I'd sure like some definitive yea or nea on the use of scotch brite deburring-by-rubbing technique discussed awhile back, especially for those using reamers. For those using the Cogsdill, I set my air at 20 pounds and it seems to produce a just right rotation for the drill. I'm using a Sioux. If anyone has an opinion on the correct rotational speed, I'd like to know. John Jessen (he who is about to head back home and a weekend of building) #328 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 2:07 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Derburring Rib Flange Slots I Used the Cogsdill quite a bit and they were generally ok if you set the tension correctly. They were always a bit fragile though and changing the blade was a female dog. I don't know if the single step version of the ezburr would be useful because you still need to take the pieces apart in order to get both sides but their standard deburr tool looks greatly improved and much beefier than the Cogsdill. Michael Sausen From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Lauritsen - Work Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 10:33 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Derburring Rib Flange Slots Checking into it. Stock they start at 3/8". These cutters were designed to use in a milling machine or a very rigid application. I know that builders have had mixed results, some swear by them, some swear at them. I am willing to try it to see if there is a better solution out there. For those that use them, do you still deburr the two sides that are between the parts (inside of the skin, outside of the substructure)? Mike On 1/12/07, Jeff Carpenter wrote: Hi Mike, While you're talking about stocking things... I was on the ezburr (www.ezburr.com <http://www.ezburr.com> ) website the other day and saw that they will custom manufacture bits that drill and deburr in one step. I didn't delve into it enough to determine the costs involved, but it seems to me that it's something that you could pursue and offer to the builders if the economies of scale work out. Jeff Carpenter 40304 I was on the Burr Away On Jan 12, 2007, at 7:08 AM, Mike Lauritsen - Work wrote: If you guys want them, I can supply them. I found that both those and the bristle disks will wear very quickly, thus I didn't think they were a good value. But I am happy to stock anything that is in demand :) If you would like them email me directly. Thanks, Mike -- Mike Lauritsen Cleaveland Aircraft Tool 515-432-6794 www.cleavelandtool.com On 1/11/07, arthurww < arthur(at)cftech.co.uk > wrote: I think I may have found that magic tool... 3M (of course) do a 3mm thick unitized cut & polish wheel. Available in 3 diameters 38, 50 & 75mm. Tried one tonight in a right angle die grinder... seemed to work very well and quite quick. Regards Arthur -------- #40641 EMP Read this topic online here: href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com"> http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com -- Mike Lauritsen Cleaveland Aircraft Tool 515-432-6794 www.cleavelandtool.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: James Cowl & plenum
This may be a case of the blind leading the blind, but here's what I've learned. Apart form aesthetics, the main reason for my going with the James cowl & plenum was performance. there are no RV-10'd flying with it yet so performance improvements are subjective. However there are enough RV 6.7 & 8's flying with them to indicate that the combination produces anywhere between 5-10 mph. It would take a LOT of additional HP to get the kind of an improvement. The biggest portion of the improvement is attributable to the Plenum. I don't begin to understand all of the fluid dynamic physics, but as Sam explained to me, the 'secret is: with Wills cowl rings you get 32 sq inchs of air entering the plenum, and you want 32 sq inches of area around the bottom of the clys for the air to exit the 'pressurized' portion. an imbalance with more air coming in than exiting results in drag with the air going back out the front of the cowl. The advantages of the plenum are that there is no 'leakage' between the baffling and the top of the cowl. some measurements have indicated that as much as 50% of the cooling air can be lost through what otherwise appears to be a tight fit between baffling material and the cowl. the leakage also contributed to increased drag. Sam's cowl comes with templates for his own baffling that mates to his cowl. His baffling templates are designed to equalize/optimize the air entering the plenum and the air exiting. Some builders have used Van's baffling kit and adapted it to Sam's plenum, Sam strongly cautioned me against this, believing it was a source of problems with the fitment of the plenum, and also with the balance of the air flow. he quoted me the numbers on van's baffles and the area around the bottom of each cyl was larger than the area he designed in his plans. Another benefit of a properly functioning plenum/baffle combo it better balanced cooling between cyls. I believe the Sam indicates that cyl temps with his plenum should not vary by more than 2% (!). I've spoken w/ 2 -10 builders that had problems fitting Sam's plenum. both used Van's baffle kit. I almost skipped ordering a plenum based on their troubles. to Sam's credit, he remade plenums for both builders and sent them at his expense. One builder seems satisfied and one isn't. I spoke with both Will and Sam about the fittment situation, and they called the builders and talked with additional builders and concluded that the problems were most likely due to using Van's baffling. Will told me " if you order one of our products and it doesn't work as it is supposed to we will stay with you until it does" So, Yes I have ordered Sam's Plenum, Access (easy) to the top of the engine is a drawback of the plenum, ans it derives its benefits from a 'hard' mounting to the baffling. (I've got these pretty polished induction tubes, color coordinated plug wires, custom painted crankcase, chrome valve covers, and it's all going to get covered up. (I just remind myself that 5-10 mph is worth it!). The epoxy/glass that Sam used is designed for the temps of the engine compartment. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Chris Johnston wrote: > >Hey Deems - > >Are you using the plenum? I've not really decided, and was wondering if >others had thoughts about it. I don't know much about the mechanics of >it, but it seems like it'd improve cooling etc. Also it (I guess) would >reduce stress on the cowl and attachments, as the plenum is pressurized >and not the entire cowl. Am I incorrect here? What about inspecting >the engine through the oil filler hole? You wouldn't see the top of the >engine there - is that a bummer? Also, doesn't the engine get hot where >it gets close to the plenum? Is this a problem? I'd love any info >before I go calling Sam about it. > >cj >#40410 >fuse >www.perfectlygoodairplane.net > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis >Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:56 AM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Empennage - James Cowl > > >Here's a link to pics of my Will James Cowl, arrived Fri. A QUALITY >part! (Will makes the Cowls & Sam (his father) makes the Plenum) > >http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2047%20Spinner%20and%20Cowling/index.html > >Deems Davis # 406 >Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) >http://deemsrv10.com/ > > >Chris Johnston wrote: > > > >>Just thought I'd chime in here - I just sent my check off for my Sam >>James RV-10 Cowl, and I do have my standard cowl here as well, so when >> >> > > > >>the new cowl comes I'll give a pirep and snap some pics illustrating >>the differences in quality and shape. I got the RV-10 cowl for the >>standard, not the cold air induction. We'll see. >> >>cj >> >>#40410 >> >>fuse >> >>www.perfectlygoodairplane.net >> >>-----Original Message----- >>*From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Phillips, >> >> > > > >>Jack >>*Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 7:53 AM >>*To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>*Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage >> >>I would be interested, depending on cost. I also intend to buy a >>Wholly Cowl for my RV-10. >> >>Jack Phillips >> >>#40610 >> >>-----Original Message----- >>*From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John W. >> >> >Cox > > >>*Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38 AM >>*To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>*Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage >> >>My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested >>and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment >>complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter >>weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges, >>improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC >> >> >standards. > > >>This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right >>thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up >>to the Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that >>$700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl. >> >>*/John Cox/* >>*/#40600/* >> >> >> >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >>*From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Lloyd, >>Daniel R. >>*Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM >>*To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>*Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage >> >>That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of >>completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for >>51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you >>can do with it what you want to.... >> >>http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price >> >> > > > >>list and options available. >> >>Dan >> >>N289DT >> >> >> >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >>*From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *W. Curtis >>*Sent:* Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM >>*To:* RV10-List(at)matronics.com >>*Subject:* RV10-List: RE: Empennage >> >> >> >>>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and >>>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it >>>certified here though. >>>Dan >>> >>> >>> >>Dan, >> >>"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention >>of this $85K on Van's (?) website. >>William Curtis -SB about to fit lid >>http://nerv10.com/ >> >>* * >> >>* * >> >>*href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matroni >> >> >cs.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > > >>*href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com* >> >>* * >> >>* * >> >>* * >> >>*< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span>< >> >> >/span>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > > >>*< /span>< /span>http://forums.matronics.com* >> >>* * >> >>* * >> >>* * >> >>*< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span>< >> >> >/span>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > > >>*< /span>< /span>http://forums.matronics.com* >> >>* * >> >>* * >> >>*_________________________________________________* >> >>* * >> >> >>* * >> >>*Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - >> >> >Nederlands - N* > > >>* * >> >>* * >> >>** >> >>* - The RV10-List Email Forum -* >> >>** >> >>** >> >>** >> >>** >> >>* --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* >> >>** >> >>* - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -* >> >>** >> >>* --> http://forums.matronics.com* >> >>** >> >>* * >> >>* >> >> >>* >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Empennage
Hi Niko, no intention of blaming you ;O) Carbon fiber is lightweight but needs to be constructed in an intelligent way, I did in my Glastar replace the seat pans with a Carbon/Kevlar mix, as the carbon has a low strength perpendicular to the fibers. We had just a workshop on corrosion, had a cut out piece of a F-5E spar in the hand, 7075 Alum with Titan rivets, some of the Alum. started to develop corrosion inside the 7075 spar (ok after 30 years so you might be save) but stainless steel rivet might do it. What I've wanted to point out is, that if somebody develops a new fiberglass top he needs to know the load on the part and construct it accordingly. Doing a new cowling is one thing (as it is not a structural part) but the cabin top is a structural part and needs to be done accordingly. Anyway just my 2 cents, keep on building and fly this beautiful plane, my last plane took 2554hrs to complete some of it was fiberglass work. br Werner Niko wrote: > Thanks for the advice Werner. I actually had no intention of using > aluminum rivets on the graphite. That's not a show stopper though, we > can use steel rivets, better yet, titanium ones if they are available > or maybe do something really different and bond it in place. It will > probably have a higher joint strength than the current pop riveted one. > > I have already done a lot of work on my cabin top so I am not in the > market for another one just trying to answer the question John asked. > > Niko > 40188 > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 12:27:34 PM > Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Empennage > > Niko, > > be veeeeeeeeeeery careful to rivet a carbon fiber part onto aluminum > with aluminum rivets. Between carbon and aluminum you have a large > difference in electrical potential, this will cause severe corrosion > of the aluminum part. > > So some sort of glass inserts and coverage of the carbon needs to be > done to avoid bad surprises or a coating of the aluminum of some kind.. > > br > > Werner > > Niko wrote: > >> Hi John, >> >> I haven't thought about this much, however, for a considerably >> lighter graphite canopy thats "almost ready to rivet in place" with >> an overhead similar to what Accuracy Avionics provides here is where >> how much I would be willing to part with. >> >> - at 1K to 2K above Vans rebate it would be a great deal and a no >> brainer for me. >> - at 3K to 4K above Vans rebate I would have to think about it. >> Depends on how much lighter, and how good the fit is. >> - at 5K above Vans rebate it would a bit expensive to justify. >> >> Niko >> 40188 >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: John W. Cox <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> >> >> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38:18 AM >> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage >> >> My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be >> interested and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with >> door fitment complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon >> fiber, lighter weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, >> improved hinges, improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 >> century QC standards. >> >> >> >> This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right >> thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up >> to the Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand >> that $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl. >> >> >> >> */John Cox /* >> */#40600/* >> >> *From: *owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >> >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Lloyd, >> Daniel R. >> *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM >> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage >> >> >> >> That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of >> completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for >> 51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you >> can do with it what you want to.... >> >> http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a >> price list and options available. >> >> Dan >> >> N289DT >> >> >> >> *From: *owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >> >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *W. Curtis >> *Sent:* Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM >> *To:* RV10-List(at)matronics.com >> *Subject:* RV10-List: RE: Empennage >> >>>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and >>>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it >>>certified here though. >>>Dan >>> >> Dan, >> >> "They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention >> of this $85K on Van's (?) website. >> William Curtis -SB about to fit lid >> http://nerv10.com/ >> >>* * >> >>* * >> >>* href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List" >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List * >> >>* href="http://forums.matronics.com" >http://forums.matronics.com * >> >>* * >> >>* * >> >>* * >> >>* * >> >>* * >> >>* * >> >>* * >> >>* * >> >>* * >> >>* http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List * >> >>* * >> >>* * >> >>* * >> >>* http://forums.matronics.com * >> >>* * >> >>* * >> >>* http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List==== * >> >> >>* * >> >* http://==================== * > > >* > > > * > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Grimstad" <bldgrv10450(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Empennage
Date: Jan 15, 2007
Deems I know your correct, but my estimating knowledge is a limited and John was looking for builder input. When buying or bidding the rules of poker apply and I guard my hand. We will know the value when we see the goods. Quality will always sell. Paul 450 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 11:01 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Empennage > > $2K would be a bargain! a 14" composite spinner is $1k, the James Cowl is > $1200 and the plenum is $475 (add shipping to all of those $'s). Add the > cost of the Carbon fiber ($$) and I think you would expect to pay more > like $4k + for that package. > > Deems Davis # 406 > Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) > http://deemsrv10.com/ > > Paul Grimstad wrote: > >> John >> The spinner, cowling and plenum, again nicely crafted and designed with >> improved air handling intake and oversized easy to open dip stick access >> should fetch just North of $2K. >>* >>* >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Firewall covering
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Chris - as I was reviewing your website for cowl information and pictures to balance with Deems great work, I noticed that you and Bethany have a page on your website http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Firewall%20Pa inting.html that uses some interesting product. Can you expound with a new thread? John Cox #40600 Chris Johnston wrote: > >Hey Deems - > >Are you using the plenum? I've not really decided, and was wondering if >others had thoughts about it. I don't know much about the mechanics of >it, but it seems like it'd improve cooling etc. Also it (I guess) would >reduce stress on the cowl and attachments, as the plenum is pressurized >and not the entire cowl. Am I incorrect here? What about inspecting >the engine through the oil filler hole? You wouldn't see the top of the >engine there - is that a bummer? Also, doesn't the engine get hot where >it gets close to the plenum? Is this a problem? I'd love any info >before I go calling Sam about it. > >cj >#40410 >fuse >www.perfectlygoodairplane.net > >Chris Johnston wrote: > > > >>Just thought I'd chime in here - I just sent my check off for my Sam >>James RV-10 Cowl, and I do have my standard cowl here as well, so when >> >> > > > >>the new cowl comes I'll give a pirep and snap some pics illustrating >>the differences in quality and shape. I got the RV-10 cowl for the >>standard, not the cold air induction. We'll see. >> >>cj >> >>#40410 >> >>fuse >> >>www.perfectlygoodairplane.net >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Jan 15, 2007
Subject: Re: James Cowl & plenum
Deems, I never realized you were so interested in SPEED. Are you gonna race at RENO with your 10? I bet you are gonna race John Cox in 2020 when he g ets his RV10 done...............:) Haven't people told you that at our age we are suppose to SLOW DOWN. You are retired....you don't have to get there 20 minutes early. Seriously though, that plenum setup sounds really ideal and will hopefully give you the speed and cooling that has eluded some RV10 builders. You will be breaking new ground when you sta rt flying. Hope you are ready for the POSTS from all the EXPERTS on thi s list telling you your numbers CAN"T be real. Keep sanding that fiberglass! DEAN 40449 ________________________________________________________________________ FREE Reminder Service - NEW from AmericanGreetings.com Click HERE and never forget a Birthday or Anniversary again! http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=197335&u=http://www.americangreetings.c om/products/online_calendar.pd?c=uol5752

Deems,

I never realized you were so interested in SPEED.  Are you gonna race at RENO with your 10?  I bet you are gonna race John Cox in 2 020 when he gets his RV10 done...............:)   Haven't peop le told you that at our age we are suppose to SLOW DOWN.  You are r etired....you don't have to get there 20 minutes early.  Seriously though, that plenum setup sounds really ideal and will hopefully give yo u the speed and cooling that has eluded some RV10 builders.  You wi ll be breaking new ground when you start flying.  Hope you are read y for the POSTS from all the EXPERTS on this list telling you your numbe rs CAN"T be real.

Keep sanding that fiberglass!

DEAN 40449



______________________ __________________________________________________
FREE Remin der Service - NEW from AmericanGreetings.com
Click HERE and never forget a Birthday or Anniversary again!
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Empennage
Date: Jan 15, 2007
I would be very interested. David Maib #40559 On Jan 15, 2007, at 9:38 AM, John W. Cox wrote: My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges, improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards. This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up to the Builder=92s QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl. John Cox #40600 From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list- server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R. Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what you want to.... http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price list and options available. Dan N289DT From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list- server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM Subject: RV10-List: RE: Empennage >They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and >they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it >certified here though. >Dan > Dan, "They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of this $85K on Van's (?) website. William Curtis -SB about to fit lid http://nerv10.com/ href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http:// www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com ========= ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: James Cowl & plenum
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Dean - Here is the gauntlet for 2007. Knots not MPH. 200.00 cruise in a RV-10. That's head to head, over a defined course, same fuel load (60 US Gal). Block to Block just like Nextel Nascar. Oh yeh, It's going to fall out of the sky from flutter issues, I keep forgetting. Less weight, Less drag, stronger construction, more efficient cooling, bigger grin. My money is on Deems and that is in addition to all the beer that I owe Camp Condrey from such a pathetic showing of completed RVs at OSH last summer. I am speculating that Deems will win it, cause he can read those gigantic OP technologies screens a millisecond quicker for engine tweaking. Anyone else of us old timers notice the similarity between Chris Johnson and James McClow. Main difference is in his continual grin, that of his partner and the blazing progress he is making due to lack of spelling errors. I think the secret is a passionate partner chasing the same goal in the same house. John Cox the Turbanator #40600 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ddddsp1(at)juno.com Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 3:46 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: James Cowl & plenum Deems, I never realized you were so interested in SPEED. Are you gonna race at RENO with your 10? I bet you are gonna race John Cox in 2020 when he gets his RV10 done...............:) Haven't people told you that at our age we are suppose to SLOW DOWN. You are retired....you don't have to get there 20 minutes early. Seriously though, that plenum setup sounds really ideal and will hopefully give you the speed and cooling that has eluded some RV10 builders. You will be breaking new ground when you start flying. Hope you are ready for the POSTS from all the EXPERTS on this list telling you your numbers CAN"T be real. Keep sanding that fiberglass! DEAN 40449 ________________________________________________________________________ FREE Reminder Service - NEW from AmericanGreetings.com Click HERE and never forget a Birthday or Anniversary again! <http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=197335&u=http://www.americangreetings.c om/ products/online_calendar.pd?c=uol5752> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Firewall covering
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
Sure. Well, I do a lot of research when it comes to airplane building, and frequently, my history with race cars comes to my aid. When you think about it, a race car and an aircraft have similar needs. It needs to be light and strong, you want to keep your fluids where you put them, and much of the time, you battle heat issues. So when people started talking about the infamous "tunnel", I started listening. I considered and rejected a bunch of things (foil backed graphite sheets, etc.) and finally found this stuff. http://www.lizardskin.com/pages/ceramic.php I called "the guy" over there, and he seemed to know what he was talking about. I took notes at the time, but I've since lost them. The point was that the paint is thick, it dries VERY lightweight, and it apparently does a good job of rejecting heat. It also kind of seals little voids which is an added plus. I also took note of this page of the website: http://www.lizardskin.com/pages/testimonials4.php So there it was. It seemed to fit the bill, and I'll also use some mylar faced fiberglass race car insulation on the firewall and in the tunnel to add a bit more to the insulating properties. Initially, I thought I'd just use it in the tunnel area under my false floor, and under the pilot/copilot floor as shown here http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Tunnel%20Modi fication.html but after thinking more about it, I decided to do the firewall as well. The pros are basically that it's supposed to reduce the temp in the cabin, and seal the firewall a bit extra (I also did firewall sealant around the seams and nutplates). It sticks well to everything, and it's very light. It's also water soluble and paintable. The cons? Well the paint isn't smooth after you apply it. it's so thick, that it's got kind of a car undercoat texture. It's very messy to apply. You must mask very well and very carefully. Also, you must peal the mask before the paint fully dries. It uses a special gun that you have to buy. There's no way you could spray it with a normal gun. No way. Also, I suppose for inspections, you can't pull it away from the firewall to see the condition of the shop heads and stiffeners. I decided that I'd be ok with that, as long as I could still see the steel engine mount thingys at the corners of the firewall. So in the end, I masked those, and the rivet lines for the forward fuse deck, and the attach point for my parking brake, and painted the rest. I might also paint the underside of the false floor I built in the tunnel after I get the brackets riveted to it. As an aside, don't get to thinking that the sound deadening stuff on the lizard skin website is going to be your friend, because it's REALLY heavy. Hope that answers any questions. cj #40410 fuse www.perfectlygoodairplane.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 2:47 PM Subject: RV10-List: Firewall covering Chris - as I was reviewing your website for cowl information and pictures to balance with Deems great work, I noticed that you and Bethany have a page on your website http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Firewall%20Pa inting.html that uses some interesting product. Can you expound with a new thread? John Cox #40600 Chris Johnston wrote: > >Hey Deems - > >Are you using the plenum? I've not really decided, and was wondering if >others had thoughts about it. I don't know much about the mechanics of >it, but it seems like it'd improve cooling etc. Also it (I guess) would >reduce stress on the cowl and attachments, as the plenum is pressurized >and not the entire cowl. Am I incorrect here? What about inspecting >the engine through the oil filler hole? You wouldn't see the top of the >engine there - is that a bummer? Also, doesn't the engine get hot where >it gets close to the plenum? Is this a problem? I'd love any info >before I go calling Sam about it. > >cj >#40410 >fuse >www.perfectlygoodairplane.net > >Chris Johnston wrote: > > > >>Just thought I'd chime in here - I just sent my check off for my Sam >>James RV-10 Cowl, and I do have my standard cowl here as well, so when >> >> > > > >>the new cowl comes I'll give a pirep and snap some pics illustrating >>the differences in quality and shape. I got the RV-10 cowl for the >>standard, not the cold air induction. We'll see. >> >>cj >> >>#40410 >> >>fuse >> >>www.perfectlygoodairplane.net >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: James Cowl & plenum
Date: Jan 15, 2007
Great information Deems. I am leaning towards the James cowl and plenum, so this is good info for me. One question. Does the James cowl fasten with camlocs or a hinge, or does it matter? I would like to use camlocs if possible. David Maib #40559 On Jan 15, 2007, at 3:35 PM, Deems Davis wrote: This may be a case of the blind leading the blind, but here's what I've learned. Apart form aesthetics, the main reason for my going with the James cowl & plenum was performance. there are no RV-10'd flying with it yet so performance improvements are subjective. However there are enough RV 6.7 & 8's flying with them to indicate that the combination produces anywhere between 5-10 mph. It would take a LOT of additional HP to get the kind of an improvement. The biggest portion of the improvement is attributable to the Plenum. I don't begin to understand all of the fluid dynamic physics, but as Sam explained to me, the 'secret is: with Wills cowl rings you get 32 sq inchs of air entering the plenum, and you want 32 sq inches of area around the bottom of the clys for the air to exit the 'pressurized' portion. an imbalance with more air coming in than exiting results in drag with the air going back out the front of the cowl. The advantages of the plenum are that there is no 'leakage' between the baffling and the top of the cowl. some measurements have indicated that as much as 50% of the cooling air can be lost through what otherwise appears to be a tight fit between baffling material and the cowl. the leakage also contributed to increased drag. Sam's cowl comes with templates for his own baffling that mates to his cowl. His baffling templates are designed to equalize/optimize the air entering the plenum and the air exiting. Some builders have used Van's baffling kit and adapted it to Sam's plenum, Sam strongly cautioned me against this, believing it was a source of problems with the fitment of the plenum, and also with the balance of the air flow. he quoted me the numbers on van's baffles and the area around the bottom of each cyl was larger than the area he designed in his plans. Another benefit of a properly functioning plenum/baffle combo it better balanced cooling between cyls. I believe the Sam indicates that cyl temps with his plenum should not vary by more than 2% (!). I've spoken w/ 2 -10 builders that had problems fitting Sam's plenum. both used Van's baffle kit. I almost skipped ordering a plenum based on their troubles. to Sam's credit, he remade plenums for both builders and sent them at his expense. One builder seems satisfied and one isn't. I spoke with both Will and Sam about the fittment situation, and they called the builders and talked with additional builders and concluded that the problems were most likely due to using Van's baffling. Will told me " if you order one of our products and it doesn't work as it is supposed to we will stay with you until it does" So, Yes I have ordered Sam's Plenum, Access (easy) to the top of the engine is a drawback of the plenum, ans it derives its benefits from a 'hard' mounting to the baffling. (I've got these pretty polished induction tubes, color coordinated plug wires, custom painted crankcase, chrome valve covers, and it's all going to get covered up. (I just remind myself that 5-10 mph is worth it!). The epoxy/glass that Sam used is designed for the temps of the engine compartment. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Chris Johnston wrote: > > > Hey Deems - > Are you using the plenum? I've not really decided, and was > wondering if > others had thoughts about it. I don't know much about the > mechanics of > it, but it seems like it'd improve cooling etc. Also it (I guess) > would > reduce stress on the cowl and attachments, as the plenum is > pressurized > and not the entire cowl. Am I incorrect here? What about inspecting > the engine through the oil filler hole? You wouldn't see the top > of the > engine there - is that a bummer? Also, doesn't the engine get hot > where > it gets close to the plenum? Is this a problem? I'd love any info > before I go calling Sam about it. > > cj > #40410 > fuse > www.perfectlygoodairplane.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:56 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Empennage - James Cowl > > > Here's a link to pics of my Will James Cowl, arrived Fri. A QUALITY > part! (Will makes the Cowls & Sam (his father) makes the Plenum) > > http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2047%20Spinner%20and%20Cowling/ > index.html > > Deems Davis # 406 > Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) > http://deemsrv10.com/ > > > Chris Johnston wrote: > > >> Just thought I'd chime in here - I just sent my check off for my >> Sam James RV-10 Cowl, and I do have my standard cowl here as well, >> so when >> > > >> the new cowl comes I'll give a pirep and snap some pics >> illustrating the differences in quality and shape. I got the RV-10 >> cowl for the standard, not the cold air induction. We'll see. >> >> cj >> >> #40410 >> >> fuse >> >> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10- >> list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Phillips, >> > > >> Jack >> *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 7:53 AM >> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage >> >> I would be interested, depending on cost. I also intend to buy a >> Wholly Cowl for my RV-10. >> >> Jack Phillips >> >> #40610 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10- >> list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John W. >> > Cox > >> *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38 AM >> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage >> >> My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be >> interested and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with >> door fitment complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon >> fiber, lighter weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, >> improved hinges, improved locks with fitment and alignment up to >> 21 century QC >> > standards. > >> This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the >> right thing by crediting builders who find the composite >> components not up to the Builder's QC standard. We are the >> builders. I understand that $700 is the customary rebate for those >> going with a Wholly Cowl. >> >> */John Cox/* >> */#40600/* >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10- >> list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Lloyd, Daniel R. >> *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM >> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage >> >> That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of >> completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for >> 51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and >> you can do with it what you want to.... >> >> http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a >> price >> > > >> list and options available. >> >> Dan >> >> N289DT >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10- >> list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *W. Curtis >> *Sent:* Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM >> *To:* RV10-List(at)matronics.com >> *Subject:* RV10-List: RE: Empennage >> >> >>> They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB >>> builders and >>> they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it >>> certified here though. >>> Dan >>> >>> >> Dan, >> >> "They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no >> mention of this $85K on Van's (?) website. >> William Curtis -SB about to fit lid >> http://nerv10.com/ >> >> * * >> >> * * >> >> *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http:// >> www.matroni >> > cs.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > >> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com* >> >> * * >> >> * * >> >> * * >> >> *< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span>< >> > /span>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > >> *< /span>< /span>http://forums.matronics.com* >> >> * * >> >> * * >> >> * * >> >> *< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span>< >> > /span>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > >> *< /span>< /span>http://forums.matronics.com* >> >> * * >> >> * * >> >> *_________________________________________________* >> >> * * >> >> >> * * >> >> *Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - >> > Nederlands - N* > >> * * >> >> * * >> >> ** >> >> * - The RV10-List Email Forum -* >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> * --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* >> >> ** >> >> * - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -* >> >> ** >> >> * --> http://forums.matronics.com* >> >> ** >> >> * * >> >> * >> >> >> * >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu>
Subject: RV-10 - Bushing installation in flap supports
Listers, There's apparently a revision to RV-10 plans page 22-8 (rev 1) that is current, but has not been posted on the "revisions" page at Van's web site. It involves the little brass bushings that go in the flap supports. Attached photo shows the revision. Tim -- Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) RV-6A N47TD -- 850 hrs RV-10 #40059 under construction -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: RV-10 - Bushing installation in flap supports Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 12:54:55 -0800 From: Scott Risan <scottr(at)vansaircraft.com> see attachment for bushing inst....ream to 3/8"...press bushing in. rev 1 is current on that drawing. van's Forwarded by: "Support" Forwarded to: ScottR From: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu> Send reply to: Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu Subject: RV-10 - Bushing installation in flap supports Van's, I'm writing to ask for your help. I'm trying to find where in the plans are the instructions for installing the "Bushing 1/4x3/8x250" into the W-1025A flap supports that extend below the wings? I've looked at plans page 22-8 carefully as Gus suggested, and I can't find the "1/4x3/8x250 bushings" anywhere on the page (I have page 22-8, RV-10 rev 0, 12/3/03). Figure 4 shows the washers, bolts, and CM-4M rod ends, but not the bushing that I'm looking for. Thanks, Tim Lewis -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: RV-10 - Bushing installation in flap supports Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 08:46:01 -0800 From: Gus Funnell <gusf(at)vansaircraft.com> The bushing install is shown 22-8 Vans On 17 Dec 06, at 14:22, TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net wrote: > Van's, > > Where in the plans are the instructions for installing the "Bushing > 1/4x3/8x250" into the flap supports that extend below the wings? > I've missed that step, and can't find it. I want to be sure I > wasn't supposed to file them down in width or something. > > Thanks, > > Tim Lewis ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Firewall covering
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Thanks for the great post. A comment. Dan Newland who specializes in fire suppression blankets reminded me that one of their company's products ORCON must be removable during the conditional inspection to search for corrosion. A result of condensation from moisture in air vapors. When foam material is glued, it is real bear to tear off to effect such a corrosion inspection. On our airline birds, the suppression batting gets soaked and is impossible to dry out effectively. We have to throw it away and you would then know why tickets are so expensive if you saw the cost. The amount of corrosion that forms from the condensate.... WOW. The idea of a product which covers the aluminum skin and may also provide corrosion protection is of value. I don't know the answer but I will do some digging. I know they say in their marketing that it does protect the surface. The Question. Their site mentions MSRP of $189.00 for a 2 gallon container. How much did you use? Is the residual available for purchase. Bethany had a blue paste in one picture but then it looked dark grey on drying. Should we pursue a group buy and divvy it up like a Coop? John Cox #600 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 4:34 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Firewall covering Sure. Well, I do a lot of research when it comes to airplane building, and frequently, my history with race cars comes to my aid. When you think about it, a race car and an aircraft have similar needs. It needs to be light and strong, you want to keep your fluids where you put them, and much of the time, you battle heat issues. So when people started talking about the infamous "tunnel", I started listening. I considered and rejected a bunch of things (foil backed graphite sheets, etc.) and finally found this stuff. http://www.lizardskin.com/pages/ceramic.php I called "the guy" over there, and he seemed to know what he was talking about. I took notes at the time, but I've since lost them. The point was that the paint is thick, it dries VERY lightweight, and it apparently does a good job of rejecting heat. It also kind of seals little voids which is an added plus. I also took note of this page of the website: http://www.lizardskin.com/pages/testimonials4.php So there it was. It seemed to fit the bill, and I'll also use some mylar faced fiberglass race car insulation on the firewall and in the tunnel to add a bit more to the insulating properties. Initially, I thought I'd just use it in the tunnel area under my false floor, and under the pilot/copilot floor as shown here http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Tunnel%20Modi fication.html but after thinking more about it, I decided to do the firewall as well. The pros are basically that it's supposed to reduce the temp in the cabin, and seal the firewall a bit extra (I also did firewall sealant around the seams and nutplates). It sticks well to everything, and it's very light. It's also water soluble and paintable. The cons? Well the paint isn't smooth after you apply it. it's so thick, that it's got kind of a car undercoat texture. It's very messy to apply. You must mask very well and very carefully. Also, you must peal the mask before the paint fully dries. It uses a special gun that you have to buy. There's no way you could spray it with a normal gun. No way. Also, I suppose for inspections, you can't pull it away from the firewall to see the condition of the shop heads and stiffeners. I decided that I'd be ok with that, as long as I could still see the steel engine mount thingys at the corners of the firewall. So in the end, I masked those, and the rivet lines for the forward fuse deck, and the attach point for my parking brake, and painted the rest. I might also paint the underside of the false floor I built in the tunnel after I get the brackets riveted to it. As an aside, don't get to thinking that the sound deadening stuff on the lizard skin website is going to be your friend, because it's REALLY heavy. Hope that answers any questions. cj #40410 fuse www.perfectlygoodairplane.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 2:47 PM Subject: RV10-List: Firewall covering Chris - as I was reviewing your website for cowl information and pictures to balance with Deems great work, I noticed that you and Bethany have a page on your website http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Firewall%20Pa inting.html that uses some interesting product. Can you expound with a new thread? John Cox #40600 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: James Cowl & plenum
I don't believe there's any restrictions on using camlocs. I haven't read through his plans, but I believe he assumes hinges, just like Van's. I was also initially thinking about Camlocs, but after seeing some really well done hinge installations, I've decided to go that way. David Maib wrote: > > Great information Deems. I am leaning towards the James cowl and > plenum, so this is good info for me. One question. Does the James > cowl fasten with camlocs or a hinge, or does it matter? I would like > to use camlocs if possible. > > David Maib > #40559 > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: James Cowl & plenum
I'm really not a speed freak, I'm just stingy! I laid out enough $'s for this beautiful mass of precision machined parts, that I want to get all of my money's worth. Cleaning up drag, is like 'free hp'. So if you're going to go to the effort to build a nice plane you might as well get it to perform at it's optimum, I don't know if John's gauntlet of 200 KTS is achievable for this grasshopper, perhaps, If I began from 5K ft and dove to 20 ft. above the Salton Sea, on a cold day in late Jan, and leveled off for a 2 mile speed trap, I might make it. But only time, and LOTs more F/G sanding/priming will tell :-) Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ ddddsp1(at)juno.com wrote: > Deems, > > I never realized you were so interested in SPEED. Are you gonna race > at RENO with your 10? I bet you are gonna race John Cox in 2020 when > he gets his RV10 done...............:) Haven't people told you that > at our age we are suppose to SLOW DOWN. You are retired....you don't > have to get there 20 minutes early. Seriously though, that plenum > setup sounds really ideal and will hopefully give you the speed and > cooling that has eluded some RV10 builders. You will be breaking new > ground when you start flying. Hope you are ready for the POSTS from > all the EXPERTS on this list telling you your numbers CAN"T be real. > > Keep sanding that fiberglass! > > DEAN 40449 > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > *FREE* Reminder Service - NEW from AmericanGreetings.com > *Click HERE* and never forget a Birthday or Anniversary again! > <http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=197335&u=http://www.americangreetings.com/products/online_calendar.pd?c=uol5752> > >* > > >* > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Firewall covering
Date: Jan 15, 2007
From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
I'm not sure how much I used, but there's got to be over a gallon left. It was expensive (paint and gun system), but I was willing to give it a try. I was kind of reserving judgment til I got flying so I could see what the real poop on it was, as it's kind of a commitment to go squirting some unknown quantity all over the inside of your airplane. I didn't want to bring it up then figure out that it sucked, basically. However, if others feel like taking the plunge right along with me, I'm willing to pass around the gun system and the leftover paint to whoever wants to use it. I just want to be clear up front that yes, I think it should work, yes it looks like it should work, yes, I'm happy with my results (untested as they may be), but I don't KNOW that it is as neato as I think it is. One test that I've been meaning to do is just get my heat gun out and heat up the engine side with it while touching the interior side with my hand. Not too scientific, but I don't have an IR temp gauge to use. I'll check it out this evening and report back. But back to the question, I really don't see the need for others to go buying this special gun when this is the only thing you'll ever use it for. We'll just pass it around to whoever wants to check it out - it only takes a day to squirt the stuff. Let me know if you want to, maybe just cover shipping to you. I'm willing to throw a tool and some leftover paint in the pot if it's helpful to other builders. I expected it all to just collect dust in my garage anyway... Oh - yea, it looks purplish while you're mixing it (you have to mix with a drill driven paint mixer for a couple minutes til it looks smooth) but dries a flat chalky black. Also, it's pretty tough stuff. It doesn't flake or chip easily. cj #40410 fuse www.perfectlygoodairplane.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 5:17 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Firewall covering Thanks for the great post. A comment. Dan Newland who specializes in fire suppression blankets reminded me that one of their company's products ORCON must be removable during the conditional inspection to search for corrosion. A result of condensation from moisture in air vapors. When foam material is glued, it is real bear to tear off to effect such a corrosion inspection. On our airline birds, the suppression batting gets soaked and is impossible to dry out effectively. We have to throw it away and you would then know why tickets are so expensive if you saw the cost. The amount of corrosion that forms from the condensate.... WOW. The idea of a product which covers the aluminum skin and may also provide corrosion protection is of value. I don't know the answer but I will do some digging. I know they say in their marketing that it does protect the surface. The Question. Their site mentions MSRP of $189.00 for a 2 gallon container. How much did you use? Is the residual available for purchase. Bethany had a blue paste in one picture but then it looked dark grey on drying. Should we pursue a group buy and divvy it up like a Coop? John Cox #600 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 4:34 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Firewall covering Sure. Well, I do a lot of research when it comes to airplane building, and frequently, my history with race cars comes to my aid. When you think about it, a race car and an aircraft have similar needs. It needs to be light and strong, you want to keep your fluids where you put them, and much of the time, you battle heat issues. So when people started talking about the infamous "tunnel", I started listening. I considered and rejected a bunch of things (foil backed graphite sheets, etc.) and finally found this stuff. http://www.lizardskin.com/pages/ceramic.php I called "the guy" over there, and he seemed to know what he was talking about. I took notes at the time, but I've since lost them. The point was that the paint is thick, it dries VERY lightweight, and it apparently does a good job of rejecting heat. It also kind of seals little voids which is an added plus. I also took note of this page of the website: http://www.lizardskin.com/pages/testimonials4.php So there it was. It seemed to fit the bill, and I'll also use some mylar faced fiberglass race car insulation on the firewall and in the tunnel to add a bit more to the insulating properties. Initially, I thought I'd just use it in the tunnel area under my false floor, and under the pilot/copilot floor as shown here http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Tunnel%20Modi fication.html but after thinking more about it, I decided to do the firewall as well. The pros are basically that it's supposed to reduce the temp in the cabin, and seal the firewall a bit extra (I also did firewall sealant around the seams and nutplates). It sticks well to everything, and it's very light. It's also water soluble and paintable. The cons? Well the paint isn't smooth after you apply it. it's so thick, that it's got kind of a car undercoat texture. It's very messy to apply. You must mask very well and very carefully. Also, you must peal the mask before the paint fully dries. It uses a special gun that you have to buy. There's no way you could spray it with a normal gun. No way. Also, I suppose for inspections, you can't pull it away from the firewall to see the condition of the shop heads and stiffeners. I decided that I'd be ok with that, as long as I could still see the steel engine mount thingys at the corners of the firewall. So in the end, I masked those, and the rivet lines for the forward fuse deck, and the attach point for my parking brake, and painted the rest. I might also paint the underside of the false floor I built in the tunnel after I get the brackets riveted to it. As an aside, don't get to thinking that the sound deadening stuff on the lizard skin website is going to be your friend, because it's REALLY heavy. Hope that answers any questions. cj #40410 fuse www.perfectlygoodairplane.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 2:47 PM Subject: RV10-List: Firewall covering Chris - as I was reviewing your website for cowl information and pictures to balance with Deems great work, I noticed that you and Bethany have a page on your website http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Firewall%20Pa inting.html that uses some interesting product. Can you expound with a new thread? John Cox #40600 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Control Stick interference
Date: Jan 15, 2007
All, I've removed the front covers that fit around the control sticks. The plans say to move the controls throughout their full range of motion to check for interference. What is the actual full range of motion? Of course I can make the ends of the bolts on the control stick bases touch the F1033L control column mounts (P 39-7 and 39-8) as well as make the control pushrod (F1065) touch the curved slot in the sides of the tunnel. I believe that once I attach the control surfaces this extra movement will go away, yet the plans say to check for interference without the surfaces installed (p39-8 Step 3). What other experiences are out there? Did anyone have to hack up the pre-formed slots or other areas once the control surfaces were installed? Rob Wright #392 QB Fuse Control Sticks temp installed - looks like an airplane!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Re: Empennage
Date: Jan 15, 2007
John, here's another 2 cents from a QB builder: Like Mike L., I strongly support the letter and spirit of the 51% rule. I have been told very unofficially that the 51% is calculated by counting operations, not estimating hours spent. If that is so, then it seems that a third party cabin top could be sold that would have no effect on the 51% calculation, even if the quality were to be sharply improved. Based on the quality of my wing and tail feather tips (my VS tip was useless - they sent a better one right away) and the buzz here about the cabin top, I'd bet that better quality could be a strong selling point for a third party cabin top and might be achieved at a "reasonable" price. I do think that there is a market in the "several thousand dollar" range For me to purchase a third party unit: First: I would have to be convinced that structural integrity would not be compromised. Second: weight could not increase; if weight were to decrease, a higher price would be tolerated. The law of diminishing returns (non- linear price/ weight relationship) would clearly apply. I don't think that more than a few pounds decrease would be possible, but who knows? Finally, the third-party top would have to incorporate some improvements such as a stronger belt anchor, a more robust door hinge setup, and perhaps a slicker door closure system in addition to higher perceived quality. I'd guess than other people who would be willing to pay a premium might also want those improvements, and would be far more likely to pay the additional cost if it were to result in a "better" plane. On Jan 13, 2007, at 3:25 PM, John W. Cox wrote: > > > If there was such a product, and VAN would credit builders the cost of > the canopy & doors, just how much more would a QB builder offer to pay > for such an offering? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lorenz_Malmstr=F6m?= <lm(at)viscomvisual.com>
Subject: Firewall covering
Date: Jan 16, 2007
There is another product from 'Super Soundproofing' named "Sound Damping Liquid" that seems to have similar properties. Question: Has anybody used this? What are the pros and cons to 'LizardSkin'? The spray gun seems to be a lot cheaper and material about the same. http://www.soundproofing.org/sales/liquid.htm Lorenz. #40280 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Chris Johnston > Sent: Dienstag, 16. Januar 2007 03:02 > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Firewall covering > > > --> > > I'm not sure how much I used, but there's got to be over a > gallon left. It was expensive (paint and gun system), but I > was willing to give it a try. I was kind of reserving > judgment til I got flying so I could see what the real poop > on it was, as it's kind of a commitment to go squirting some > unknown quantity all over the inside of your airplane. I > didn't want to bring it up then figure out that it sucked, > basically. However, if others feel like taking the plunge > right along with me, I'm willing to pass around the gun > system and the leftover paint to whoever wants to use it. I > just want to be clear up front that yes, I think it should > work, yes it looks like it should work, yes, I'm happy with > my results (untested as they may be), but I don't KNOW that > it is as neato as I think it is. One test that I've been > meaning to do is just get my heat gun out and heat up the > engine side with it while touching the interior side with my > hand. Not too scientific, but I don't have an IR temp gauge > to use. I'll check it out this evening and report back. > > But back to the question, I really don't see the need for > others to go buying this special gun when this is the only > thing you'll ever use it for. We'll just pass it around to > whoever wants to check it out - it only takes a day to squirt > the stuff. Let me know if you want to, maybe just cover > shipping to you. I'm willing to throw a tool and some > leftover paint in the pot if it's helpful to other builders. > I expected it all to just collect dust in my garage anyway... > > Oh - yea, it looks purplish while you're mixing it (you have > to mix with a drill driven paint mixer for a couple minutes > til it looks smooth) but dries a flat chalky black. Also, > it's pretty tough stuff. It doesn't flake or chip easily. > > cj > #40410 > fuse > www.perfectlygoodairplane.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 5:17 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Firewall covering > > > > Thanks for the great post. > > A comment. Dan Newland who specializes in fire suppression > blankets reminded me that one of their company's products > ORCON must be removable during the conditional inspection to > search for corrosion. A result of condensation from moisture > in air vapors. When foam material is glued, it is real bear > to tear off to effect such a corrosion inspection. On our > airline birds, the suppression batting gets soaked and is > impossible to dry out effectively. We have to throw it away > and you would then know why tickets are so expensive if you > saw the cost. The amount of corrosion that forms from the > condensate.... WOW. > > The idea of a product which covers the aluminum skin and may > also provide corrosion protection is of value. I don't know > the answer but I will do some digging. I know they say in > their marketing that it does protect the surface. > > The Question. Their site mentions MSRP of $189.00 for a 2 > gallon container. How much did you use? Is the residual > available for purchase. Bethany had a blue paste in one > picture but then it looked dark grey on drying. Should we > pursue a group buy and divvy it up like a Coop? > > John Cox > #600 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Chris Johnston > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 4:34 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Firewall covering > > > > Sure. > > Well, I do a lot of research when it comes to airplane > building, and frequently, my history with race cars comes to > my aid. When you think about it, a race car and an aircraft > have similar needs. It needs to be light and strong, you > want to keep your fluids where you put them, and much of the > time, you battle heat issues. So when people started talking > about the infamous "tunnel", I started listening. I > considered and rejected a bunch of things (foil backed > graphite sheets, etc.) and finally found this stuff. > > http://www.lizardskin.com/pages/ceramic.php > > I called "the guy" over there, and he seemed to know what he > was talking about. I took notes at the time, but I've since > lost them. The point was that the paint is thick, it dries > VERY lightweight, and it apparently does a good job of > rejecting heat. It also kind of seals little voids which is > an added plus. I also took note of this page of the website: > > http://www.lizardskin.com/pages/testimonials4.php > > So there it was. It seemed to fit the bill, and I'll also > use some mylar faced fiberglass race car insulation on the > firewall and in the tunnel to add a bit more to the > insulating properties. Initially, I thought I'd just use it > in the tunnel area under my false floor, and under the > pilot/copilot floor as shown here > http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Tun > nel%20Modi > fication.html > but after thinking more about it, I decided to do the > firewall as well. The pros are basically that it's supposed > to reduce the temp in the cabin, and seal the firewall a bit > extra (I also did firewall sealant around the seams and > nutplates). It sticks well to everything, and it's very > light. It's also water soluble and paintable. The cons? > Well the paint isn't smooth after you apply it. it's so > thick, that it's got kind of a car undercoat texture. It's > very messy to apply. You must mask very well and very > carefully. Also, you must peal the mask before the paint > fully dries. It uses a special gun that you have to buy. > There's no way you could spray it with a normal gun. No way. > Also, I suppose for inspections, you can't pull it away from > the firewall to see the condition of the shop heads and > stiffeners. I decided that I'd be ok with that, as long as I > could still see the steel engine mount thingys at the corners > of the firewall. So in the end, I masked those, and the > rivet lines for the forward fuse deck, and the attach point > for my parking brake, and painted the rest. I might also > paint the underside of the false floor I built in the tunnel > after I get the brackets riveted to it. > > As an aside, don't get to thinking that the sound deadening > stuff on the lizard skin website is going to be your friend, > because it's REALLY heavy. > > Hope that answers any questions. > > cj > #40410 > fuse > www.perfectlygoodairplane.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 2:47 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Firewall covering > > > > Chris - as I was reviewing your website for cowl information > and pictures to balance with Deems great work, I noticed that > you and Bethany have a page on your website > http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Fir ewall%20Pa inting.html that uses some interesting product. Can you expound with a new thread? John Cox #40600 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RAS" <deruiteraircraftservices(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: RV-10 - Bushing installation in flap supports
Date: Jan 16, 2007
Hi Tim, You have one of the earlier kits out of the first two batches that were produced by Van's judging by your kit number. From at least number 400272, maybe earlier REV 1 is in the kit. Marcel ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Lewis To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 12:37 AM Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 - Bushing installation in flap supports Listers, There's apparently a revision to RV-10 plans page 22-8 (rev 1) that is current, but has not been posted on the "revisions" page at Van's web site. It involves the little brass bushings that go in the flap supports. Attached photo shows the revision. Tim -- Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) RV-6A N47TD -- 850 hrs RV-10 #40059 under construction -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: RV-10 - Bushing installation in flap supports Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 12:54:55 -0800 From: Scott Risan <scottr(at)vansaircraft.com> To: Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu see attachment for bushing inst....ream to 3/8"...press bushing in. rev 1 is current on that drawing. van's Forwarded by: "Support" Forwarded to: ScottR From: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu> Send reply to: Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu Subject: RV-10 - Bushing installation in flap supports Van's, I'm writing to ask for your help. I'm trying to find where in the plans are the instructions for installing the "Bushing 1/4x3/8x250" into the W-1025A flap supports that extend below the wings? I've looked at plans page 22-8 carefully as Gus suggested, and I can't find the "1/4x3/8x250 bushings" anywhere on the page (I have page 22-8, RV-10 rev 0, 12/3/03). Figure 4 shows the washers, bolts, and CM-4M rod ends, but not the bushing that I'm looking for. Thanks, Tim Lewis -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: RV-10 - Bushing installation in flap supports Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 08:46:01 -0800 From: Gus Funnell <gusf(at)vansaircraft.com> The bushing install is shown 22-8 Vans On 17 Dec 06, at 14:22, TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net wrote: > Van's, > > Where in the plans are the instructions for installing the "Bushing > 1/4x3/8x250" into the flap supports that extend below the wings? > I've missed that step, and can't find it. I want to be sure I > wasn't supposed to file them down in width or something. > > Thanks, > > Tim Lewis ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2007
From: Niko <owl40188(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Cabin cover fit pictures
For those interested I have attached some Cabin Cover fit pictures.=0A=0ADo not archive=0A=0ANiko=0A40188 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com>
Subject: James Cowl Question
Date: Jan 16, 2007
Deems, What are you using for a spinner for your James Cowl? -Ben Westfall Portland, OR #40579 - gas tanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: James Cowl Question
I ordered a 14" spinner from Aero Composites http://www.aerocomposites.com/ , the same place I'm getting my prop from. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Ben Westfall wrote: > Deems, > > What are you using for a spinner for your James Cowl? > > -Ben Westfall > > Portland, OR > > #40579 gas tanks > >* > > >* > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cabin cover fit pictures
Date: Jan 16, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
I am confident (without any knowledge to the contrary) that VANS initial testing of N410RV met the requirements of FAA FSDO NM-09 and the Seattle MIDO. I have no such quantitative information on N220RV or the replacement canopy for N410RV after the door issue. Same individuals who will approve the replacement unit made of carbon fiber of improved strength, conductivity and lighter weight here in Orygun. Less weight on top, more room for heavies like me or enhanced and remotely mounted avionics. I would wager that most completed riveted aluminum fuselage and empennage kits are pretty darn close on exactly same dimensions. I would further state that from canopy to canopy they are a WAG different. Having seen the clear difference by a part made of equal strength of MT fiberglass and that of Company X carbon they are dimensionally thickness and weight, light years dissimilar. A careful review of a side view on most finished RV-10s will find a distinct break at the transition between the fiberglass matrix and the top of the empennage. Proper use of flox, fiber or stress transferring threads will assist in the needed transition. John Cox the Turbanator #40600 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James K Hovis Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 11:38 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Cabin cover fit pictures John, Good comments. I have a question related to this discussion, how "conforming" is the Van's design to the crashworthiness requirements of FAR part 23 as they relate to roll-overs in a crash? Looking at these pictures, I really wonder how well the cabin top will hold up in a roll over. Carbon-epoxy (even the low grade stuff) is tons stronger and more impact resistant than glass-epoxy matrix. Van's takes pride in pointing out they design to part 23 requirements and show static testing of a wing as proof. Note: Part 23 roll over requiremetns after inverting on the ground are 3.0 g vertical load with a .5 cof of friction sliding load (23.561) after surviving a 9.0 g longitudinal crash impact. This means the top (VT contacting ground) has to withstand 8,100 # of vertical load while also withstanding 4,050# of sliding interial load in the forward direction. Seems a couple peices of steel tubing or a few layers of carbon epoxy placed in strategic positions would greatly enhance crash strength. Carbon fiber and fiberglass lay-up is essentially the same, both require a mold. Unless the latest automated carbon fiber layup robots are used, I don't think you'll see any better quality (where the cabin top meets the aluminum structure) that you are seeing today with a hand-layup process regardless whether carbon or fiberglass is used. Remember, you are fitting an item that has a certain level of process and dimensional control to items that are made by different processes. Aluminum forming processes (i.e. drop hammer die, hyrdoforming on form blocks, or brake forming) is capable of holding tighter profile tolerances than most hand layup composites. This is why you'll see mismatches and such between the cabin top and the Al strucutre and will need to do some hand fitting. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2007
From: Bill DeRouchey <billderou(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-10 - Bushing installation in flap supports
I have kit #29 and did receive the bushings. It was a while ago but I think they may have been shipped seperately. The bushings did fit perfectly without modifications but must be inserted after the wing skin is complete as the slot in the skin will not pass through the flap support with the bushing installed. Bill billderou(at)yahoo.com N939SB, flying RAS wrote: Hi Tim, You have one of the earlier kits out of the first two batches that were produced by Van's judging by your kit number. From at least number 400272, maybe earlier REV 1 is in the kit. Marcel ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Lewis To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 12:37 AM Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 - Bushing installation in flap supports Listers, There's apparently a revision to RV-10 plans page 22-8 (rev 1) that is current, but has not been posted on the "revisions" page at Van's web site. It involves the little brass bushings that go in the flap supports. Attached photo shows the revision. Tim -- Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) RV-6A N47TD -- 850 hrs RV-10 #40059 under construction -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: RV-10 - Bushing installation in flap supports Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 12:54:55 -0800 From: Scott Risan To: Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu see attachment for bushing inst....ream to 3/8"...press bushing in. rev 1 is current on that drawing. van's Forwarded by: "Support" Forwarded Send reply to: Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu To: Van's Support Subject: RV-10 - Bushing installation in flap supports Van's, I'm writing to ask for your help. I'm trying to find where in the plans are the instructions for installing the "Bushing 1/4x3/8x250" into the W-1025A flap supports that extend below the wings? I've looked at plans page 22-8 carefully as Gus suggested, and I can't find the "1/4x3/8x250 bushings" anywhere on the page (I have page 22-8, RV-10 rev 0, 12/3/03). Figure 4 shows the washers, bolts, and CM-4M rod ends, but not the bushing that I'm looking for. Thanks, Tim Lewis -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: RV-10 - Bushing installation in flap supports Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 08:46:01 -0800 From: Gus Funnell To: TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net The bushing install is shown 22-8 Vans On 17 Dec 06, at 14:22, TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net wrote: > Van's, > > Where in the plans are the instructions for installing the "Bushing > 1/4x3/8x250" into the flap supports that extend below the wings? > I've missed that step, and can't find it. I want to be sure I > wasn't supposed to file them down in width or something. > > Thanks, > > Tim Lewis --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Grimstad" <bldgrv10450(at)comcast.net>
Subject: LASAR ignition system questions
Date: Jan 16, 2007
I have questions about the LASAR ignition system that I am planning to use. I need an installation wiring diagram and the physical size of the controller (black box) Does the controller need access for engine set-up or maintenance? What is the approx. physical size of the controller? Has anyone installed the controller on the cabin side of the firewall? Any information about the T-300 ignition timing tool? Any other LASAR system input will be appreciated. Thanks, Paul Grimstad RV10 40450 fuselage Portland, OR 97219 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Control Stick interference
Date: Jan 16, 2007
Rob, I just finished rigging the elevators so let me take a shot at answering. Ultimately the range of control movement is determined by the stops on the respective control surfaces. I did find a few gotchas in this section that need attention. First, on page 39-8, fig. 3 I found that the hardware installation should be reversed. If you reverse the AN3-13 throught the control stick and put the head of the bolt on the side of the WD-1010, interference is eliminated with the weldment in full side to side movement. Also reverse the AN3-10As at the bottum of the control stick bases. If you don't you will find an interference at full aft stick and full side to side movement. The bolts hit the control cloumn mount. I used the neutral position jigs for both the elevator bellcrank and the control stick. The jig for the bellcrank is in the empennage plans and the one for the control stick is on page 39-10. These turned out to be useless when it came to rigging the elevators. I had to play with the rod ends to get F-1065 to miss the tunnel cut outs at full up elevator. I also found an interference, at full down elevator, with the F-1090 push tube and the bottum of the elevator bellcrank. I relieved the bellcrank a little to insure adequate clearance. My side to side stick movement is now limited by the cabin sidewalls so I'm pretty sure that's enough.....Hope this helps. John Hasbrouck #40264 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2007
From: rv10builder <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Control Stick interference
THANK YOU for posting this. I have been pulling my hair out for the past week with similar problems: The F-1090 tube and the bottom of the bellcrank interference required that I extend the rod end bearing to resolve this problem and then adjusted the opposite end to fix the F-1063 elevator idler arm moving to far forward (all while ensuring at least half of the rod end threads engaged). What I cannot seem to overcome is that I have the measuring jig connected to the WD-1010 during elevator neutral, however moving the controls full aft to stop causes the F-1089 rod end bearing threads to impact the rear of the WD-1010 attach point. This should be impossible if the jig is setup correctly during elevator neutral (shouldn't it?). I can adjust it out so that all controls move free and clear to all stops....but is this wrong? Brian #40308 http://www.mykitlog.com/rv10builder I John Hasbrouck wrote: > Rob, > I just finished rigging the elevators so let me take a shot at > answering. Ultimately the range of control movement is determined by > the stops on the respective control surfaces. I did find a few > gotchas in this section that need attention. First, on page 39-8, > fig. 3 I found that the hardware installation should be reversed. If > you reverse the AN3-13 throught the control stick and put the head of > the bolt on the side of the WD-1010, interference is eliminated with > the weldment in full side to side movement. Also reverse the AN3-10As > at the bottum of the control stick bases. If you don't you will find > an interference at full aft stick and full side to side movement. The > bolts hit the control cloumn mount. I used the neutral position jigs > for both the elevator bellcrank and the control stick. The jig for > the bellcrank is in the empennage plans and the one for the control > stick is on page 39-10. These turned out to be useless when it came > to rigging the elevators. I had to play with the rod ends to get > F-1065 to miss the tunnel cut outs at full up elevator. I also found > an interference, at full down elevator, with the F-1090 push tube and > the bottum of the elevator bellcrank. I relieved the bellcrank a > little to insure adequate clearance. My side to side stick movement > is now limited by the cabin sidewalls so I'm pretty sure that's > enough.....Hope this helps. > > John Hasbrouck > #40264 > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com>
Subject: Re: LASAR ignition system questions
Date: Jan 16, 2007
> I need an installation wiring diagram and the physical size of the > controller (black box) Contact Unison tech support person Steve Carter who would probably fax or e-mail this to you. Contact info... (904) 739-4068, steve.carter(at)unison.ae.ge.com > Does the controller need access for engine set-up or maintenance? Not sure what you're asking here. The controller box is non user servicable, if there's a problem you'll remove it and send it back so you need to be able to remove it. Of course the system will operate in conventional mag mode without the controller. If you get the "bush kit" it will even start without it because an impulse coupling is included. If you are ordering an engine from Bart (Aero Sport Power) he configures all his LASAR installations with the bush kit. > What is the approx. physical size of the controller? Approximately 8" wide including the mounting brackets, 5.5" tall including the connectors, and 3.375" deep. > Has anyone installed the controller on the cabin side of the firewall? Bad idea because of the large connector you'd have to pass through the firewall requiring a large hole. Also, it is specifically designed for fwf installation. > Any information about the T-300 ignition timing tool? IIRC they are about $175 and I have one you could borrow, I'm in your local chapter. > Any other LASAR system input will be appreciated. Be sure and order it WITHOUT the CHT sensor circuit that is required for certified installations -- you don't need it and don't want it because the sensor connection is known to be flakey trip the system into backup mode. Contact me directly if you need more info or want to come over and see an actual installation. Randy Lervold www.rv-3.com www.rv-8.com EAA Chapter 105, President ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: James Cowl & plenum
Date: Jan 16, 2007
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
On another note about James service, I was one of the first to get the plenum for the IO-540 back around OSH. It's been sitting in a box since then because of my move and subsequent building out a new workshop/hanger. I heard a couple months ago about the fit problem but decided to wait until I was to the point of needing it before calling Sam. He called me about two weeks ago to let me know about the problem and that a new one was being shipped that day. Luckily he called before going to UPS or my plenum would be sitting at an abandoned workshop in TX rather than with me in WI! Once upon a time Deems and I were about even and doing a lot of the same things like engine, cowl, plenum, etc and I was the one doing a ton of due diligence and explaining it to the list. Gotta say I'm glad this move is giving me a substantial break so Deems can have the steep learning curve for a while! Although if I would have known about my little hiatus I could have willed him all of my slots as I have had the engine and plenum since OSH and the cowl for almost two months. ;-) Can't wait for Deems to be flying as it's going to be like a preview of mine. Michael Sausen -10 #352 limbo -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 3:35 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: James Cowl & plenum This may be a case of the blind leading the blind, but here's what I've learned. Apart form aesthetics, the main reason for my going with the James cowl & plenum was performance. there are no RV-10'd flying with it yet so performance improvements are subjective. However there are enough RV 6.7 & 8's flying with them to indicate that the combination produces anywhere between 5-10 mph. It would take a LOT of additional HP to get the kind of an improvement. The biggest portion of the improvement is attributable to the Plenum. I don't begin to understand all of the fluid dynamic physics, but as Sam explained to me, the 'secret is: with Wills cowl rings you get 32 sq inchs of air entering the plenum, and you want 32 sq inches of area around the bottom of the clys for the air to exit the 'pressurized' portion. an imbalance with more air coming in than exiting results in drag with the air going back out the front of the cowl. The advantages of the plenum are that there is no 'leakage' between the baffling and the top of the cowl. some measurements have indicated that as much as 50% of the cooling air can be lost through what otherwise appears to be a tight fit between baffling material and the cowl. the leakage also contributed to increased drag. Sam's cowl comes with templates for his own baffling that mates to his cowl. His baffling templates are designed to equalize/optimize the air entering the plenum and the air exiting. Some builders have used Van's baffling kit and adapted it to Sam's plenum, Sam strongly cautioned me against this, believing it was a source of problems with the fitment of the plenum, and also with the balance of the air flow. he quoted me the numbers on van's baffles and the area around the bottom of each cyl was larger than the area he designed in his plans. Another benefit of a properly functioning plenum/baffle combo it better balanced cooling between cyls. I believe the Sam indicates that cyl temps with his plenum should not vary by more than 2% (!). I've spoken w/ 2 -10 builders that had problems fitting Sam's plenum. both used Van's baffle kit. I almost skipped ordering a plenum based on their troubles. to Sam's credit, he remade plenums for both builders and sent them at his expense. One builder seems satisfied and one isn't. I spoke with both Will and Sam about the fittment situation, and they called the builders and talked with additional builders and concluded that the problems were most likely due to using Van's baffling. Will told me " if you order one of our products and it doesn't work as it is supposed to we will stay with you until it does" So, Yes I have ordered Sam's Plenum, Access (easy) to the top of the engine is a drawback of the plenum, ans it derives its benefits from a 'hard' mounting to the baffling. (I've got these pretty polished induction tubes, color coordinated plug wires, custom painted crankcase, chrome valve covers, and it's all going to get covered up. (I just remind myself that 5-10 mph is worth it!). The epoxy/glass that Sam used is designed for the temps of the engine compartment. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Chris Johnston wrote: > >Hey Deems - > >Are you using the plenum? I've not really decided, and was wondering if >others had thoughts about it. I don't know much about the mechanics of >it, but it seems like it'd improve cooling etc. Also it (I guess) would >reduce stress on the cowl and attachments, as the plenum is pressurized >and not the entire cowl. Am I incorrect here? What about inspecting >the engine through the oil filler hole? You wouldn't see the top of the >engine there - is that a bummer? Also, doesn't the engine get hot where >it gets close to the plenum? Is this a problem? I'd love any info >before I go calling Sam about it. > >cj >#40410 >fuse >www.perfectlygoodairplane.net > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis >Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:56 AM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Empennage - James Cowl > > >Here's a link to pics of my Will James Cowl, arrived Fri. A QUALITY >part! (Will makes the Cowls & Sam (his father) makes the Plenum) > >http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2047%20Spinner%20and%20Cowling/index.htm l > >Deems Davis # 406 >Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) >http://deemsrv10.com/ > > >Chris Johnston wrote: > > > >>Just thought I'd chime in here - I just sent my check off for my Sam >>James RV-10 Cowl, and I do have my standard cowl here as well, so when >> >> > > > >>the new cowl comes I'll give a pirep and snap some pics illustrating >>the differences in quality and shape. I got the RV-10 cowl for the >>standard, not the cold air induction. We'll see. >> >>cj >> >>#40410 >> >>fuse >> >>www.perfectlygoodairplane.net >> >>-----Original Message----- >>*From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Phillips, >> >> > > > >>Jack >>*Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 7:53 AM >>*To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>*Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage >> >>I would be interested, depending on cost. I also intend to buy a >>Wholly Cowl for my RV-10. >> >>Jack Phillips >> >>#40610 >> >>-----Original Message----- >>*From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John W. >> >> >Cox > > >>*Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38 AM >>*To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>*Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage >> >>My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested >>and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment >>complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter >>weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges, >>improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC >> >> >standards. > > >>This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right >>thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up >>to the Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that >>$700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl. >> >>*/John Cox/* >>*/#40600/* >> >> >> >> >----------------------------------------------------------------------- - > > >>*From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Lloyd, >>Daniel R. >>*Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM >>*To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>*Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage >> >>That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of >>completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for >>51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you >>can do with it what you want to.... >> >>http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price >> >> > > > >>list and options available. >> >>Dan >> >>N289DT >> >> >> >> >----------------------------------------------------------------------- - > > >>*From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *W. Curtis >>*Sent:* Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM >>*To:* RV10-List(at)matronics.com >>*Subject:* RV10-List: RE: Empennage >> >> >> >>>They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and >>>they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it >>>certified here though. >>>Dan >>> >>> >>> >>Dan, >> >>"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention >>of this $85K on Van's (?) website. >>William Curtis -SB about to fit lid >>http://nerv10.com/ >> >>* * >> >>* * >> >>*href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matron i >> >> >cs.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > > >>*href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com* >> >>* * >> >>* * >> >>* * >> >>*< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span>< >> >> >/span>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > > >>*< /span>< /span>http://forums.matronics.com* >> >>* * >> >>* * >> >>* * >> >>*< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span>< >> >> >/span>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > > >>*< /span>< /span>http://forums.matronics.com* >> >>* * >> >>* * >> >>*_________________________________________________* >> >>* * >> >> >>* * >> >>*Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - >> >> >Nederlands - N* > > >>* * >> >>* * >> >>** >> >>* - The RV10-List Email Forum -* >> >>** >> >>** >> >>** >> >>** >> >>* --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* >> >>** >> >>* - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -* >> >>** >> >>* --> http://forums.matronics.com* >> >>** >> >>* * >> >>* >> >> >>* >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Control Stick interference
Date: Jan 16, 2007
Brian, As I discovered, the jigs were useless. I had the same interferences with the F-1089 and the WD-1010 and finally adjusted them out so the elevator traveled to both its stops without interference in the rest of the control system. I tried extending the rod end on the F-1090 to clear the bottom of the bellcrank but found I was chasing my own tail ( pardon the pun ). My solution was to reshape the bottom of the bellcrank slightly thus keeping the rod ends engaged properly. The goal is to get the control surfaces to travel, unimpeded, to their full extent while keeping the rod ends engaged as much as possible. J. Hasbrouck #40264 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2007
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: James Cowl & plenum
I was also at the same point in the build as you were Michael before you move. Deemes has speed by me (summer was tough with all the family stuff getting in the way of building ;-) Now I am just in front of you and watching and learning from Deemes. Deemes, keep it up, keep posting to your web site. It is helping all of us. Larry #356 (4 behind Michael) RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > > On another note about James service, I was one of the first to get the > plenum for the IO-540 back around OSH. It's been sitting in a box since > then because of my move and subsequent building out a new > workshop/hanger. I heard a couple months ago about the fit problem but > decided to wait until I was to the point of needing it before calling > Sam. He called me about two weeks ago to let me know about the problem > and that a new one was being shipped that day. Luckily he called before > going to UPS or my plenum would be sitting at an abandoned workshop in > TX rather than with me in WI! > > Once upon a time Deems and I were about even and doing a lot of the > same things like engine, cowl, plenum, etc and I was the one doing a ton > of due diligence and explaining it to the list. Gotta say I'm glad this > move is giving me a substantial break so Deems can have the steep > learning curve for a while! Although if I would have known about my > little hiatus I could have willed him all of my slots as I have had the > engine and plenum since OSH and the cowl for almost two months. ;-) > Can't wait for Deems to be flying as it's going to be like a preview of > mine. > > Michael Sausen > -10 #352 limbo > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 3:35 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: James Cowl & plenum > > > This may be a case of the blind leading the blind, but here's what I've > learned. > > Apart form aesthetics, the main reason for my going with the James cowl > & plenum was performance. there are no RV-10'd flying with it yet so > performance improvements are subjective. However there are enough RV 6.7 > > & 8's flying with them to indicate that the combination produces > anywhere between 5-10 mph. It would take a LOT of additional HP to get > the kind of an improvement. > > The biggest portion of the improvement is attributable to the Plenum. I > don't begin to understand all of the fluid dynamic physics, but as Sam > explained to me, the 'secret is: with Wills cowl rings you get 32 sq > inchs of air entering the plenum, and you want 32 sq inches of area > around the bottom of the clys for the air to exit the 'pressurized' > portion. an imbalance with more air coming in than exiting results in > drag with the air going back out the front of the cowl. The advantages > of the plenum are that there is no 'leakage' between the baffling and > the top of the cowl. some measurements have indicated that as much as > 50% of the cooling air can be lost through what otherwise appears to be > > a tight fit between baffling material and the cowl. the leakage also > contributed to increased drag. Sam's cowl comes with templates for his > own baffling that mates to his cowl. His baffling templates are designed > > to equalize/optimize the air entering the plenum and the air exiting. > Some builders have used Van's baffling kit and adapted it to Sam's > plenum, Sam strongly cautioned me against this, believing it was a > source of problems with the fitment of the plenum, and also with the > balance of the air flow. he quoted me the numbers on van's baffles and > the area around the bottom of each cyl was larger than the area he > designed in his plans. Another benefit of a properly functioning > plenum/baffle combo it better balanced cooling between cyls. I believe > the Sam indicates that cyl temps with his plenum should not vary by > more than 2% (!). > > I've spoken w/ 2 -10 builders that had problems fitting Sam's plenum. > both used Van's baffle kit. I almost skipped ordering a plenum based on > their troubles. to Sam's credit, he remade plenums for both builders and > > sent them at his expense. One builder seems satisfied and one isn't. I > spoke with both Will and Sam about the fittment situation, and they > called the builders and talked with additional builders and concluded > that the problems were most likely due to using Van's baffling. Will > told me " if you order one of our products and it doesn't work as it is > supposed to we will stay with you until it does" > > So, Yes I have ordered Sam's Plenum, > > Access (easy) to the top of the engine is a drawback of the plenum, ans > it derives its benefits from a 'hard' mounting to the baffling. (I've > got these pretty polished induction tubes, color coordinated plug wires, > > custom painted crankcase, chrome valve covers, and it's all going to get > > covered up. (I just remind myself that 5-10 mph is worth it!). The > epoxy/glass that Sam used is designed for the temps of the engine > compartment. > > Deems Davis # 406 > Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) > http://deemsrv10.com/ > > Chris Johnston wrote: > > >> > > >> Hey Deems - >> >> Are you using the plenum? I've not really decided, and was wondering >> > if > >> others had thoughts about it. I don't know much about the mechanics of >> it, but it seems like it'd improve cooling etc. Also it (I guess) >> > would > >> reduce stress on the cowl and attachments, as the plenum is pressurized >> and not the entire cowl. Am I incorrect here? What about inspecting >> the engine through the oil filler hole? You wouldn't see the top of >> > the > >> engine there - is that a bummer? Also, doesn't the engine get hot >> > where > >> it gets close to the plenum? Is this a problem? I'd love any info >> before I go calling Sam about it. >> >> cj >> #40410 >> fuse >> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis >> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:56 AM >> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Empennage - James Cowl >> >> >> Here's a link to pics of my Will James Cowl, arrived Fri. A QUALITY >> part! (Will makes the Cowls & Sam (his father) makes the Plenum) >> >> http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2047%20Spinner%20and%20Cowling/index.htm >> > l > >> Deems Davis # 406 >> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) >> http://deemsrv10.com/ >> >> >> Chris Johnston wrote: >> >> >> >> >>> Just thought I'd chime in here - I just sent my check off for my Sam >>> James RV-10 Cowl, and I do have my standard cowl here as well, so when >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >>> the new cowl comes I'll give a pirep and snap some pics illustrating >>> the differences in quality and shape. I got the RV-10 cowl for the >>> standard, not the cold air induction. We'll see. >>> >>> cj >>> >>> #40410 >>> >>> fuse >>> >>> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Phillips, >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >>> Jack >>> *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 7:53 AM >>> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage >>> >>> I would be interested, depending on cost. I also intend to buy a >>> Wholly Cowl for my RV-10. >>> >>> Jack Phillips >>> >>> #40610 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John W. >>> >>> >>> >> Cox >> >> >> >>> *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38 AM >>> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage >>> >>> My question remains unanswered. How many builders would be interested >>> and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment >>> complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule? Carbon fiber, lighter >>> weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges, >>> improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC >>> >>> >>> >> standards. >> >> >> >>> This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right >>> thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up >>> to the Builder's QC standard. We are the builders. I understand that >>> $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl. >>> >>> */John Cox/* >>> */#40600/* >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > - > >> >> >> >>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Lloyd, >>> Daniel R. >>> *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM >>> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RE: Empennage >>> >>> That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of >>> completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for >>> 51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you >>> can do with it what you want to.... >>> >>> http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >>> list and options available. >>> >>> Dan >>> >>> N289DT >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > - > >> >> >> >>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *W. Curtis >>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM >>> *To:* RV10-List(at)matronics.com >>> *Subject:* RV10-List: RE: Empennage >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders >>>> > and > >>>> they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it >>>> certified here though. >>>> Dan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Dan, >>> >>> "They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention >>> of this $85K on Van's (?) website. >>> William Curtis -SB about to fit lid >>> http://nerv10.com/ >>> >>> * * >>> >>> * * >>> >>> *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matron >>> > i > >>> >>> >>> >> cs.com/Navigator?RV10-List* >> >> >> >>> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com* >>> >>> * * >>> >>> * * >>> >>> * * >>> >>> *< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span>< >>> >>> >>> >> /span>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* >> >> >> >>> *< /span>< /span>http://forums.matronics.com* >>> >>> * * >>> >>> * * >>> >>> * * >>> >>> *< /span>< /span>< /span>< /span>< >>> >>> >>> >> /span>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* >> >> >> >>> *< /span>< /span>http://forums.matronics.com* >>> >>> * * >>> >>> * * >>> >>> *_________________________________________________* >>> >>> * * >>> >>> >>> * * >>> >>> *Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - >>> >>> >>> >> Nederlands - N* >> >> >> >>> * * >>> >>> * * >>> >>> ** >>> >>> * - The RV10-List Email Forum -* >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> * --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* >>> >>> ** >>> >>> * - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -* >>> >>> ** >>> >>> * --> http://forums.matronics.com* >>> >>> ** >>> >>> * * >>> >>> * >>> >>> >>> * >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: James Cowl & plenum - Correction
I need to post a correction to my earlier post on this subject. I reported that of the 2 people I had spoken with 1 was happy and one was not. I got a call from Happy today, only he wasn't so happy. :-( He wanted to set the record straight regarding the comments I received from Sam about the problems being attributed to the use of Van's Baffling kit. He walked me through his experience and I'd have to agree with him. There were serious fitment issues NOT related to the use of Van's Baffling. This is perplexing, as everything I've heard and experienced 1st hand from Will James has been Terrific. I've only had one conversation w/ Sam, and reported that in my last post on this subject. I hope that the problems that these 2 experienced have been fixed. As I don't want to be another 'test-bed'. Anyway, My order has been sent last week, and I'll let you know when the plenum arrives, if it's ready for prime time, or if it's still being debugged. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Re: RV-10 - Bushing installation in flap supports
Date: Jan 16, 2007
On kit 458, the skins can be made to pass over the installed bushings, but it will make you pucker! John On Jan 16, 2007, at 2:05 PM, Bill DeRouchey wrote: > I have kit #29 and did receive the bushings. It was a while ago but > I think they may have been shipped seperately. The bushings did fit > perfectly without modifications but must be inserted after the wing > skin is complete as the slot in the skin will not pass through the > flap support with the bushing installed. > > Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2007
From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net>
Subject: Re: LASAR ignition system questions
Randy Lervold wrote: > Does the controller need access for engine set-up or maintenance? > > Not sure what you're asking here. The controller box is non user > servicable, if there's a problem you'll remove it and send it back so > you need to be able to remove it. Of course the system will operate in > conventional mag mode without the controller. If you get the "bush > kit" it will even start without it because an impulse coupling is > included. If you are ordering an engine from Bart (Aero Sport Power) > he configures all his LASAR installations with the bush kit. > the only time you want to have access to the box (better the connector on the lower left edge) is, when you want to know why exactly the red light is on. A serial cable to your computer gives you a diagnostic screen with some engine parameters and error code. I'm able to access the plug trough the oil access door. br Werner ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Spelling/Typing lessons offered free of charge!
Whaz a matta caint yu tak a jok! (Kitlog could do with a spell checker!) I've been looking for someone that could laser/waterjet cut new subpanels for my instrument panel, I hand cut the originals and am not happy with them. I got prices any where up to $400. I was having a problem accurately recreating the outlines of the subpanels in a CAD program. When it dawned on me to call Aerotronics where I purchased the fiberglass panel from (duh). I called Gary Wirrell, who not only agreed to cut them but offered to do it for FREE!!!!! Gary has been monitoring some of the msg boards and had seen previous posts favorable to Aerotronics and wanted to return a favor. WOW! and just when I was beginning to think that customer service was dead. As you know I'm building my own panel, and other than purchasing the fiberglass panel piece from Gary, that's it. But Gary did a CAD layout of my panel to make sure the OP Tech EFIS would fit, and then with the remake of the sub-panels, he's done several more! He's also provided several EXTREMELY Valuable suggestions, that I wouldn't have thought of otherwise. and Oh yeh, he's doing all of this in the midst of the D2A disaster! So I'm again returning a favor by sharing my experience with the board. My next project (an F1 rocket) will have an Aerotronics built panel! THANKS AGAIN Gary!!!!! Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Rick wrote: >.iF ewe knew whut I meen!!! :) > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Firewall covering
Date: Jan 17, 2007
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
This Looks to be the same thing as what I used but twice as much. http://www.quietcoat.com/index.html It works very well at deadening sound but will add weight. A 5 gal pail is about 72lbs, less than Dynamat though. Check the archives for more info. Also as ceramic paint seems to be a current topic again, there should be some stuff in there about my experience on the subject as I did a full battery of tests on a ceramic paint additive that I used. Funny how those archives have information in them isn't it. :-) Michael Sausen -10 #352 Limbo -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lorenz Malmstrm Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 12:51 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Firewall covering There is another product from 'Super Soundproofing' named "Sound Damping Liquid" that seems to have similar properties. Question: Has anybody used this? What are the pros and cons to 'LizardSkin'? The spray gun seems to be a lot cheaper and material about the same. http://www.soundproofing.org/sales/liquid.htm Lorenz. #40280 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Chris Johnston > Sent: Dienstag, 16. Januar 2007 03:02 > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Firewall covering > > > --> > > I'm not sure how much I used, but there's got to be over a > gallon left. It was expensive (paint and gun system), but I > was willing to give it a try. I was kind of reserving > judgment til I got flying so I could see what the real poop > on it was, as it's kind of a commitment to go squirting some > unknown quantity all over the inside of your airplane. I > didn't want to bring it up then figure out that it sucked, > basically. However, if others feel like taking the plunge > right along with me, I'm willing to pass around the gun > system and the leftover paint to whoever wants to use it. I > just want to be clear up front that yes, I think it should > work, yes it looks like it should work, yes, I'm happy with > my results (untested as they may be), but I don't KNOW that > it is as neato as I think it is. One test that I've been > meaning to do is just get my heat gun out and heat up the > engine side with it while touching the interior side with my > hand. Not too scientific, but I don't have an IR temp gauge > to use. I'll check it out this evening and report back. > > But back to the question, I really don't see the need for > others to go buying this special gun when this is the only > thing you'll ever use it for. We'll just pass it around to > whoever wants to check it out - it only takes a day to squirt > the stuff. Let me know if you want to, maybe just cover > shipping to you. I'm willing to throw a tool and some > leftover paint in the pot if it's helpful to other builders. > I expected it all to just collect dust in my garage anyway... > > Oh - yea, it looks purplish while you're mixing it (you have > to mix with a drill driven paint mixer for a couple minutes > til it looks smooth) but dries a flat chalky black. Also, > it's pretty tough stuff. It doesn't flake or chip easily. > > cj > #40410 > fuse > www.perfectlygoodairplane.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 5:17 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Firewall covering > > > > Thanks for the great post. > > A comment. Dan Newland who specializes in fire suppression > blankets reminded me that one of their company's products > ORCON must be removable during the conditional inspection to > search for corrosion. A result of condensation from moisture > in air vapors. When foam material is glued, it is real bear > to tear off to effect such a corrosion inspection. On our > airline birds, the suppression batting gets soaked and is > impossible to dry out effectively. We have to throw it away > and you would then know why tickets are so expensive if you > saw the cost. The amount of corrosion that forms from the > condensate.... WOW. > > The idea of a product which covers the aluminum skin and may > also provide corrosion protection is of value. I don't know > the answer but I will do some digging. I know they say in > their marketing that it does protect the surface. > > The Question. Their site mentions MSRP of $189.00 for a 2 > gallon container. How much did you use? Is the residual > available for purchase. Bethany had a blue paste in one > picture but then it looked dark grey on drying. Should we > pursue a group buy and divvy it up like a Coop? > > John Cox > #600 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Chris Johnston > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 4:34 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Firewall covering > > > > Sure. > > Well, I do a lot of research when it comes to airplane > building, and frequently, my history with race cars comes to > my aid. When you think about it, a race car and an aircraft > have similar needs. It needs to be light and strong, you > want to keep your fluids where you put them, and much of the > time, you battle heat issues. So when people started talking > about the infamous "tunnel", I started listening. I > considered and rejected a bunch of things (foil backed > graphite sheets, etc.) and finally found this stuff. > > http://www.lizardskin.com/pages/ceramic.php > > I called "the guy" over there, and he seemed to know what he > was talking about. I took notes at the time, but I've since > lost them. The point was that the paint is thick, it dries > VERY lightweight, and it apparently does a good job of > rejecting heat. It also kind of seals little voids which is > an added plus. I also took note of this page of the website: > > http://www.lizardskin.com/pages/testimonials4.php > > So there it was. It seemed to fit the bill, and I'll also > use some mylar faced fiberglass race car insulation on the > firewall and in the tunnel to add a bit more to the > insulating properties. Initially, I thought I'd just use it > in the tunnel area under my false floor, and under the > pilot/copilot floor as shown here > http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Tun > nel%20Modi > fication.html > but after thinking more about it, I decided to do the > firewall as well. The pros are basically that it's supposed > to reduce the temp in the cabin, and seal the firewall a bit > extra (I also did firewall sealant around the seams and > nutplates). It sticks well to everything, and it's very > light. It's also water soluble and paintable. The cons? > Well the paint isn't smooth after you apply it. it's so > thick, that it's got kind of a car undercoat texture. It's > very messy to apply. You must mask very well and very > carefully. Also, you must peal the mask before the paint > fully dries. It uses a special gun that you have to buy. > There's no way you could spray it with a normal gun. No way. > Also, I suppose for inspections, you can't pull it away from > the firewall to see the condition of the shop heads and > stiffeners. I decided that I'd be ok with that, as long as I > could still see the steel engine mount thingys at the corners > of the firewall. So in the end, I masked those, and the > rivet lines for the forward fuse deck, and the attach point > for my parking brake, and painted the rest. I might also > paint the underside of the false floor I built in the tunnel > after I get the brackets riveted to it. > > As an aside, don't get to thinking that the sound deadening > stuff on the lizard skin website is going to be your friend, > because it's REALLY heavy. > > Hope that answers any questions. > > cj > #40410 > fuse > www.perfectlygoodairplane.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 2:47 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Firewall covering > > > > Chris - as I was reviewing your website for cowl information > and pictures to balance with Deems great work, I noticed that > you and Bethany have a page on your website > http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Fir ewall%20Pa inting.html that uses some interesting product. Can you expound with a new thread? John Cox #40600 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: James Cowl Question
Date: Jan 17, 2007
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
If you go with a MT prop, you can specify the 14" spinner from MT for no extra charge. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 2:28 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: James Cowl Question I ordered a 14" spinner from Aero Composites http://www.aerocomposites.com/ , the same place I'm getting my prop from. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Ben Westfall wrote: > Deems, > > What are you using for a spinner for your James Cowl? > > -Ben Westfall > > Portland, OR > > #40579 - gas tanks > >* > > >* > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Control Stick interference
Date: Jan 17, 2007
Jesse, I'll concede that useless may be too strong a word for the jigs but I think the dimensions given in the plans for the push tube lengths are a better place to start with the rigging. Your comment about the weldments and the control horns being the source of the variations is probably correct. Thanks! John Hasbrouck #40264 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Spelling/Typing lessons offered free of charge!
Date: Jan 17, 2007
Why an F1 rocket---just go straight to the ViperJet. What are you thinking! Time is precious so stop spinning your wheels. You could paint your words on the side of that plane and because it goes so fast, no one would be able to tell you mispelled the words. hou knees spel chek aniway! John >From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: Spelling/Typing lessons offered free of charge! >Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 07:57:45 -0700 > > >Whaz a matta caint yu tak a jok! > >(Kitlog could do with a spell checker!) > >I've been looking for someone that could laser/waterjet cut new subpanels >for my instrument panel, I hand cut the originals and am not happy with >them. I got prices any where up to $400. I was having a problem accurately >recreating the outlines of the subpanels in a CAD program. When it dawned >on me to call Aerotronics where I purchased the fiberglass panel from >(duh). I called Gary Wirrell, who not only agreed to cut them but offered >to do it for FREE!!!!! Gary has been monitoring some of the msg boards and >had seen previous posts favorable to Aerotronics and wanted to return a >favor. WOW! and just when I was beginning to think that customer service >was dead. As you know I'm building my own panel, and other than purchasing >the fiberglass panel piece from Gary, that's it. But Gary did a CAD layout >of my panel to make sure the OP Tech EFIS would fit, and then with the >remake of the sub-panels, he's done several more! He's also provided >several EXTREMELY Valuable suggestions, that I wouldn't have thought of >otherwise. and Oh yeh, he's doing all of this in the midst of the D2A >disaster! So I'm again returning a favor by sharing my experience with the >board. >My next project (an F1 rocket) will have an Aerotronics built panel! THANKS >AGAIN Gary!!!!! > >Deems Davis # 406 >Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) >http://deemsrv10.com/ > > >Rick wrote: > >>.iF ewe knew whut I meen!!! :) >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2007
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: James Cowl Question
In my days researching the Lancair ES (when it was still affordable to buy their kit and they didn't add the carbon canopy ;-) ) Aerocomposite was the blade of choice. I can understand when one is spending 225K for a composite plane that 13K (at the time) was nothing, but for a plane close to half that price is 14.4K really that much better in performance, appearance or reason one would go this way, than an MT for 7-8K? Honestly just asking so I know. Not questioning the decision to chose the more expensive blade just wondering in my cost cutting if 6K is worth the price.. For example, 6K in an engine may produce something to show for the difference in price.. what about this blade? Pascal ----- Original Message ----- From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 7:09 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: James Cowl Question > > > If you go with a MT prop, you can specify the 14" spinner from MT for no > extra charge. > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 2:28 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: James Cowl Question > > > I ordered a 14" spinner from Aero Composites > http://www.aerocomposites.com/ , the same place I'm getting my prop > from. > > Deems Davis # 406 > Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) > http://deemsrv10.com/ > > Ben Westfall wrote: > >> Deems, >> >> What are you using for a spinner for your James Cowl? >> >> -Ben Westfall >> >> Portland, OR >> >> #40579 - gas tanks >> >>* >> >> >>* >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Douglas" <bsponcil(at)belinblank.org>
Subject: Re: Spelling/Typing lessons offered free of charge!
Date: Jan 17, 2007
It's too bad that we've come to expect so little from the people we give money to but I had a similar experience with Cleaveland Tools the other day. I needed a threaded #12 drill bit but really nothing else. Naturally the bit is like $2 and the cheapest shipping on the website is $5. But what are you going to do, if you need the bit you need the bit. So I ordered two of 'em, entered my CC etc and later that day someone from Cleaveland called to ask if it was ok to send the bits 1st class mail for $.50 instead of charging the $5. It's only $5 in a $100,000 project but service like that goes a long way in my book. -Brian Iowa City, IA #40497 Finishing Empennage ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 8:57 AM Subject: RV10-List: Spelling/Typing lessons offered free of charge! > fiberglass panel from (duh). I called Gary Wirrell, who not only agreed to > cut them but offered to do it for FREE!!!!! Gary has been monitoring some > of the msg boards and had seen previous posts favorable to Aerotronics and > wanted to return a favor. WOW! and just when I was beginning to think that > customer service was dead. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2007
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>
Subject: Aileron Rigging
Question about the aileron rigging and what is normal. First: On page 23-9 I have attached the flaps and let them but up against the W-1007 rear spar doubler plate. The ailerons then match up perfectly with the ends of the flaps. However, when I sight down the airfoil profile, it looks like the flap is a couple of degrees Up. Is this the normal starting place? Won't that make fitting the wingtip fiberglass a lot more fun? Second: kudos to the guys at trutrack. I ended up with the wrong brackets for installing the roll servo and they sent the correct ones out gratis. Fred Williams 40515 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Spelling/Typing lessons offered free of charge!
Date: Jan 17, 2007
Some of them will tape the bit or tool inside their catalog and ship it that way to also save you $$$$. It is a real nice feeling when people are watching out for you. JOhn >From: "Brian Douglas" <bsponcil(at)belinblank.org> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Spelling/Typing lessons offered free of charge! >Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:43:24 -0600 > > >It's too bad that we've come to expect so little from the people we give >money to but I had a similar experience with Cleaveland Tools the other >day. I needed a threaded #12 drill bit but really nothing else. Naturally >the bit is like $2 and the cheapest shipping on the website is $5. But >what are you going to do, if you need the bit you need the bit. So I >ordered two of 'em, entered my CC etc and later that day someone from >Cleaveland called to ask if it was ok to send the bits 1st class mail for >$.50 instead of charging the $5. > >It's only $5 in a $100,000 project but service like that goes a long way in >my book. > > >-Brian > >Iowa City, IA >#40497 >Finishing Empennage > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> >To: >Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 8:57 AM >Subject: RV10-List: Spelling/Typing lessons offered free of charge! > > >>fiberglass panel from (duh). I called Gary Wirrell, who not only agreed to >>cut them but offered to do it for FREE!!!!! Gary has been monitoring some >>of the msg boards and had seen previous posts favorable to Aerotronics and >>wanted to return a favor. WOW! and just when I was beginning to think that >>customer service was dead. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Aileron Rigging
Date: Jan 17, 2007
I think that is correct.....3 degrees reflex for the flaps and Aileron. Rene' Felker 40322 N423CF 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Williams, M.D. Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 11:48 AM Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Question about the aileron rigging and what is normal. First: On page 23-9 I have attached the flaps and let them but up against the W-1007 rear spar doubler plate. The ailerons then match up perfectly with the ends of the flaps. However, when I sight down the airfoil profile, it looks like the flap is a couple of degrees Up. Is this the normal starting place? Won't that make fitting the wingtip fiberglass a lot more fun? Second: kudos to the guys at trutrack. I ended up with the wrong brackets for installing the roll servo and they sent the correct ones out gratis. Fred Williams 40515 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Hot off the CNC Lathe
From: "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net>
Date: Jan 17, 2007
Guys, Here is another solution to the Axle Extenders for the wheelpants on the RV10. Since the Vans supplied extenders are having problems in the field, my brother Jim (who is an engineer) came up with a solution. The pics below show his design. The axle extender rod is hollow in the center. This setup is lighter, thats right, lighter in weight than Van's nut and bolt on extender. It doesn't look like it in the pics, but it is! And it's stronger too! The one piece billet axle rod screws onto the axle. The Capture washer was machine to fit exactly on the axle rod extender and is bonded onto the wheel pant just as Vans has you do with his. The capture washer distributes the loads on the wheelpant with this plug and socket design. If you want a set, my brother Jim is selling them for $150.00 a pair plus $5 for shipping. Call him at 302-250-7872 or email him at czachorowski(at)mindspring.com Zack -------- RV8 #80125 RV10 # 40512 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88366#88366 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc06871_155.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc06874_109.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc06866_210.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc06862_623.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc06853_357.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Jan 17, 2007
Subject: Re: Hot off the CNC Lathe
For those of us that have already DRILLED the hub for the cotter pin wha t would we do? It does not appear your solution has a cotter pin hole d rilled into it. Dean ________________________________________________________________________ FREE Reminder Service - NEW from AmericanGreetings.com Click HERE and never forget a Birthday or Anniversary again! http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=197335&u=http://www.americangreetings.c om/products/online_calendar.pd?c=uol5752

For those of us that have already DRILLED the hub for the cotte r pin what would we do?  It does not appear your solution has a cot ter pin hole drilled into it.

Dean



______________________ __________________________________________________
FREE Remin der Service - NEW from AmericanGreetings.com
Click HERE and never forget a Birthday or Anniversary again!
< br>

      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hot off the CNC Lathe
From: "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net>
Date: Jan 17, 2007
Dean, The holes will be drilled in at the same dimensions as Van's cap. These pics were taken literally 1 hour before I posted them. The axle extender was still warm from the CNC. Jim will drill the holes in the production models. They will fit right on! Joe [quote="ddddsp1(at)juno.com"]For those of us that have already DRILLED the hub for the cotter pin what would we do? It does not appear your solution has a cotter pin hole drilled into it. Dean ________________________________________________________________________ FREE Reminder Service - NEW from AmericanGreetings.com Click HERE and never forget a Birthday or Anniversary again! > [b] -------- RV8 #80125 RV10 # 40512 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88395#88395 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2007
From: Niko <owl40188(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Window Trim
Has anyone installed the fiberglass window trim from Accuracy Avionics? I am trying to decide whether to get them or not.=0A=0ANiko=0A40188=0AFun wit h fiberglass ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Boone" <david555(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Changed to prop decision
Date: Jan 17, 2007
For me, The prop decision will depend upon an ability to get specific information from Aerocomposite on the vibration differential compared to the Hartzell. I would prefer the Aerocomposite 2 blade if the vibration reduction is significant. I personally don't believe in the long term viability of a wooden prop in consideration of my type of flying and in the area I live. (High Moisture, 12% equilibrium moisture content) I just had a catastrophic engine failure in a Cessna 310 where the jug connecting bolts vibrated loose and the #1jug, part of the exhaust and part of the case departed the airplane in flight. Both the FAA and Avemco said that is was "not uncommon" in both the Continental and the Lycoming engines. David Boone 40138 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 1:14 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: James Cowl Question > > In my days researching the Lancair ES (when it was still affordable to buy > their kit and they didn't add the carbon canopy ;-) ) Aerocomposite was > the blade of choice. I can understand when one is spending 225K for a > composite plane that 13K (at the time) was nothing, but for a plane close > to half that price is 14.4K really that much better in performance, > appearance or reason one would go this way, than an MT for 7-8K? > > Honestly just asking so I know. Not questioning the decision to chose the > more expensive blade just wondering in my cost cutting if 6K is worth the > price.. For example, 6K in an engine may produce something to show for the > difference in price.. what about this blade? > Pascal > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 7:09 AM > Subject: RE: RV10-List: James Cowl Question > > >> >> >> If you go with a MT prop, you can specify the 14" spinner from MT for no >> extra charge. >> >> Michael >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis >> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 2:28 PM >> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: James Cowl Question >> >> >> I ordered a 14" spinner from Aero Composites >> http://www.aerocomposites.com/ , the same place I'm getting my prop >> from. >> >> Deems Davis # 406 >> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) >> http://deemsrv10.com/ >> >> Ben Westfall wrote: >> >>> Deems, >>> >>> What are you using for a spinner for your James Cowl? >>> >>> -Ben Westfall >>> >>> Portland, OR >>> >>> #40579 - gas tanks >>> >>>* >>> >>> >>>* >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Window Trim
If you haven't installed your windows yet, it's not all that hard to make you're own. Gary Speceter told me how @ Osh last year and I made some up for me. check here for how it did it. http://deemsrv10.com/43-windowrings.htm. Depending on how Accuracy trimed the openings for the windows, there could be some variance between planes. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Niko wrote: > Has anyone installed the fiberglass window trim from Accuracy > Avionics? I am trying to decide whether to get them or not. > > Niko > 40188 > Fun with fiberglass > >* > > >* > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2007
From: "Mike Lauritsen - Work" <mike(at)cleavelandtool.com>
Subject: Cleaveland Shipping was: Spelling/Typing lessons offered free
of charge! Thanks Brian for the kind words, please share your secrets on building progress while having a new child :) We try and follow the 'do unto others...' approach. I know I hate paying big shipping for a little part. I have finally talked my wife into looking at the shipping cost before she decides buying something online is a great deal. To clarify our shipping we are able to ship many things via mail. However the website is not nearly as smart as the post office employees that write those 4 volume set 3" thick per volume list of rules. We had terrible errors at first when we offered First Class postage on the web. Customers would choose it because it would only cost $0.53 to ship an entire kit. So we had to remove it as an option. If you don't care how it is shipped but want it the cheapest choose 'BST - CAT will pick the best way' this will show you the UPS ground rate, but it cues us to look and see if there is a better way, and we do it without asking. You can also type a note in the 'special instructions' section of the check out to specify that you want it a special way, such as 'please buy this a seat on the next United flight into LA so that I can use it after work'. We are always happy to accommodate (this time of year I might share the seat with the tool). More common special instructions are: "Please use US mail as this address does not accept UPS" or "Ship cheapest way to arrive by ______" I think most other vendors are willing to accommodate special requests also. Thanks again for everyone's support. Mike On 1/17/07, John Gonzalez wrote: > > > Some of them will tape the bit or tool inside their catalog and ship it > that > way to also save you $$$$. > > It is a real nice feeling when people are watching out for you. > > JOhn > > > >From: "Brian Douglas" <bsponcil(at)belinblank.org> > >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Spelling/Typing lessons offered free of charge! > >Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:43:24 -0600 > > > > > > > > > >It's too bad that we've come to expect so little from the people we give > >money to but I had a similar experience with Cleaveland Tools the other > >day. I needed a threaded #12 drill bit but really nothing > else. Naturally > >the bit is like $2 and the cheapest shipping on the website is $5. But > >what are you going to do, if you need the bit you need the bit. So I > >ordered two of 'em, entered my CC etc and later that day someone from > >Cleaveland called to ask if it was ok to send the bits 1st class mail for > >$.50 instead of charging the $5. > > > >It's only $5 in a $100,000 project but service like that goes a long way > in > >my book. > > > > > >-Brian > > > >Iowa City, IA > >#40497 > >Finishing Empennage > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> > >To: > >Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 8:57 AM > >Subject: RV10-List: Spelling/Typing lessons offered free of charge! > > > > > >>fiberglass panel from (duh). I called Gary Wirrell, who not only agreed > to > >>cut them but offered to do it for FREE!!!!! Gary has been monitoring > some > >>of the msg boards and had seen previous posts favorable to Aerotronics > and > >>wanted to return a favor. WOW! and just when I was beginning to think > that > >>customer service was dead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Mike Lauritsen Cleaveland Aircraft Tool 515-432-6794 www.cleavelandtool.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2007
From: rv10builder <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Window Trim
I sure wish I had known that little trick of Deems prior to installing my rear windows! Well...at least it's not too late for the remaining three. So what are they charging for the trim? I sent them an e-mail a couple of weeks ago and didn't get a response. Niko wrote: > Has anyone installed the fiberglass window trim from Accuracy > Avionics? I am trying to decide whether to get them or not. > > Niko > 40188 > Fun with fiberglass > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2007
From: rv10builder <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Window Trim
I sure wish I had known that little trick of Deems prior to installing my rear windows! Well...at least it's not too late for the remaining three. So what are they charging for the trim? I sent them an e-mail a couple of weeks ago and didn't get a response. Brian #40308 Niko wrote: > Has anyone installed the fiberglass window trim from Accuracy > Avionics? I am trying to decide whether to get them or not. > > Niko > 40188 > Fun with fiberglass > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2007
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>
Subject: Aileron rigging
Tim/Rene' Thanks. As with most things if one follows the directions it works out. It just didn't look quite right. And, I wish in the next revision Vans would add a comment to that effect in the plans. Fred. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2007
From: Niko <owl40188(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Window Trim
Deems,=0A=0AThats very nice. I will try that also.=0A=0ABy the way, I bel ieve the cost from Accuracy is $295 for a set. I am not sure how many you get though. I don't think you get the windshield fairing it might only be the two side windows in the Cabin Cover.=0A=0ANiko=0A40188=0A=0A=0A----- Or iginal Message ----=0AFrom: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>=0ATo: rv10-lis t(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 6:13:05 PM=0ASubject: R vis =0A=0AIf you haven't installed your windows yet, it 's not all that hard to =0Amake you're own. Gary Speceter told me how @ Osh last year and I made =0Asome up for me. check here for how it did it. =0Ah ttp://deemsrv10.com/43-windowrings.htm.=0A=0ADepending on how Accuracy tri med the openings for the windows, there =0Acould be some variance between p lanes.=0A=0ADeems Davis # 406=0AFinishing - ( A Misnomer ! )=0Ahttp://deems rv10.com/=0A=0ANiko wrote:=0A=0A> Has anyone installed the fiberglass windo w trim from Accuracy =0A> Avionics? I am trying to decide whether to get t hem or not.=0A> =0A> Niko=0A> 40188=0A> Fun with fiberglass=0A>=0A>*=0A> ==== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2007
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Window Trim
So Deems, when you bend the fiberglass over the window towards the outside. So the frame makes the window opening slightly smaller. What did you use to trim the "green" fiberglass flush with the outside, just a razor blade? Did you use plastic wrap as peel ply to smooth the inside? Larry Deems Davis wrote: > > If you haven't installed your windows yet, it's not all that hard to > make you're own. Gary Speceter told me how @ Osh last year and I made > some up for me. check here for how it did it. > http://deemsrv10.com/43-windowrings.htm. > > Depending on how Accuracy trimed the openings for the windows, there > could be some variance between planes. > > Deems Davis # 406 > Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) > http://deemsrv10.com/ > > Niko wrote: > >> Has anyone installed the fiberglass window trim from Accuracy >> Avionics? I am trying to decide whether to get them or not. >> >> Niko >> 40188 >> Fun with fiberglass >> >> * >> >> >> * >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2007
From: rv10builder <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Window Trim
From the looks of their site you get 5 pieces: http://www.accuracyavionics.com/v1/fiberglassoptions.html Brian Niko wrote: > Deems, > > Thats very nice. I will try that also. > > By the way, I believe the cost from Accuracy is $295 for a set. I am > not sure how many you get though. I don't think you get the > windshield fairing it might only be the two side windows in the Cabin > Cover. > > Niko > 40188 > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 6:13:05 PM > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Window Trim > > > If you haven't installed your windows yet, it's not all that hard to > make you're own. Gary Speceter told me how @ Osh last year and I made > some up for me. check here for how it did it. > http://deemsrv10.com/43-windowrings.htm. > > Depending on how Accuracy trimed the openings for the windows, there > could be some variance between planes. > > Deems Davis # 406 > Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) > http://deemsrv10.com/ > > Niko wrote: > > > Has anyone installed the fiberglass window trim from Accuracy > > Avionics? I am trying to decide whether to get them or not. > > > > Niko > > 40188 > > Fun with --> > > <http://forums.matronics.com/> > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Window Trim
Date: Jan 17, 2007
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
An old scissors (still sharp but not your significant others favorite) is your best bet. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 7:02 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Window Trim So Deems, when you bend the fiberglass over the window towards the outside. So the frame makes the window opening slightly smaller. What did you use to trim the "green" fiberglass flush with the outside, just a razor blade? Did you use plastic wrap as peel ply to smooth the inside? Larry Deems Davis wrote: > > If you haven't installed your windows yet, it's not all that hard to > make you're own. Gary Speceter told me how @ Osh last year and I made > some up for me. check here for how it did it. > http://deemsrv10.com/43-windowrings.htm. > > Depending on how Accuracy trimed the openings for the windows, there > could be some variance between planes. > > Deems Davis # 406 > Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) > http://deemsrv10.com/ > > Niko wrote: > >> Has anyone installed the fiberglass window trim from Accuracy >> Avionics? I am trying to decide whether to get them or not. >> >> Niko >> 40188 >> Fun with fiberglass >> >> * >> >> >> * >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Window Trim
I just used a razor blade to trim the FG when green. It's a timing sort of thing, too soon and it's gooey, too late and its' ..... too late. I didn't use anything on the inside surface as my intent is to cover them with Tweed auto upholstery fabric, same as the headliner/ohead console.. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Larry Rosen wrote: > > So Deems, when you bend the fiberglass over the window towards the > outside. So the frame makes the window opening slightly smaller. What > did you use to trim the "green" fiberglass flush with the outside, > just a razor blade? Did you use plastic wrap as peel ply to smooth the > inside? > > Larry > > Deems Davis wrote: > >> >> If you haven't installed your windows yet, it's not all that hard to >> make you're own. Gary Speceter told me how @ Osh last year and I made >> some up for me. check here for how it did it. >> http://deemsrv10.com/43-windowrings.htm. >> >> Depending on how Accuracy trimed the openings for the windows, there >> could be some variance between planes. >> >> Deems Davis # 406 >> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) >> http://deemsrv10.com/ >> >> Niko wrote: >> >>> Has anyone installed the fiberglass window trim from Accuracy >>> Avionics? I am trying to decide whether to get them or not. >>> >>> Niko >>> 40188 >>> Fun with fiberglass >>> >>> * >>> >>> >>> * >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: James Cowl Question
If you go and check the race results for AirVenture cup you will find that the winners and top finishers have two things in common. A James cowl/plenum, and an Aero Composite Prop. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: James Cowl spacing for MT Prop w/ 14" spinner?
Date: Jan 17, 2007
We need to know the cowl spacing for the James cowl using MT prop with the the 14" spinner. Is it also 1.5"? Is anyone using this combo and has the prop/spinner installed? ERic-- 40014 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Leffler" <rvmail(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: Accuracy Avionics Air Scoop
Date: Jan 18, 2007
Having just received my empennage kit last night, I'm still in the information overload stage and getting ready to start inventorying everything. When following a link on another post yesterday, I saw that Accuracy Avionics has an air scoop that looks interesting. One of my wife's complaints is the lack of air in the back seat of my Cherokee. I'm considering adding air conditioning. However, having this source of air through an overhead console looks like a good solution as well. I'm interested in hearing if anyone has installed this on their 10 yet or if you've looked at it and decided not to install it. Thanks, Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Leffler" <rvmail(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: Rivethead pirep re: shipping
Date: Jan 18, 2007
I just wanted to share that I had a similar experience this week with Rivethead-Aero regarding shipping. Last week I ordered one of everything for the 10, or at least I thought I had. The order arrived at my office a couple days later and I noticed that I omitted on part by accident. I quickly ordered the part online. I put in the comment section a rather sarcastic comment about the shipping costing twice as much as the part. I really wasn't expecting them to do anything about it. The next day I received a notice that he had credited my account for the shipping. I find it a real pleasure doing business with folks like these. It's a pity that more businesses don't emulate these best practices. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Doble (Home Office)" <mikedoble(at)wi.rr.com>
Subject: Officially a Builder
Date: Jan 18, 2007
Hi all! I picked up my emp kit on Tuesday from the shipping company. Inventory done, only two parts missing! (I thought that was good considering..) I have decided to name Tim Olsen on my reply to Vans regarding "Who inspired me the most to build an RV-10?" I did this because: 1. Tim's website is one of the first I found when I decided an RV-10 was for me. And as I have lingered out here over the years and watched his progress and first flight, it convinced me the -10 is the right airplane. It is especially motivating to see him and his family's trip log. I also have two little ones (4 and 6) and look forward to doing similar trips one day. The trip log was especially useful in showing the "Commander-in-Chief" (my wife) what can be done with such a great airplane. (See Joan..Tim's kids and wife are still smiling!!!!) 2. Tim's posts to this list typically are insightful and informative. A lot of his posts have landed in my "Keepers" folder under RV-10. (Thanks for the wheel pant bolt drawing last night!) 3. He's another Wisconsinite.. Not to slight the others that have inspired me, but Deems and CJ's web sites are great too and I for one really appreciate the effort to pass on your [absolutely golden] knowledge!!! Mike Builder 40691 Working on emp..YEAH!!!! Waukesha, Wisconsin ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: James Cowl spacing for MT Prop w/ 14" spinner?
Date: Jan 18, 2007
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
I asked someone, can't remember if it was Van's or James, but they said it was the same as the stock cowl. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Parlow Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 10:22 PM Subject: RV10-List: James Cowl spacing for MT Prop w/ 14" spinner? We need to know the cowl spacing for the James cowl using MT prop with the the 14" spinner. Is it also 1.5"? Is anyone using this combo and has the prop/spinner installed? ERic-- 40014 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 18, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Axle Extender length needed
The integral Axel extender comes from Zack's brother, who taught his nephew (Dave @ Rivethead) machining. Zack watched him as he produced the part he posted pics' of and was impressed with how much time it took on the CNC machine (3 hrs). I don't think you're going to find a better price, cause its already "all in the family". I've orderd a pair, Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Tim Olson wrote: > > That might be a perfect addition to their RV-10 parts list. > I don't want to detract from the other offers of parts > that other's have made, regarding these spacers. The ones > we saw yesterday with the integral nut would be sweet for > a new build, and they better justify the price. But, if > rivethead makes them, or anyone else, hopefully they'll > be priced fairly. These things are high-precision > spacecraft parts....it's just an aluminum bar with a couple > holes in it. I have no good estimate of machining time > to make a pretty one, but I'd maybe estimate a fair > street price as being somewhere south of $100 a ways, > like $50 or so. I'm sure market forces will help determine > the price though, so who knows. It's nice to see > a few people interested in making them though! > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 18, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Accuracy Avionics Air Scoop
Bob I installed the Overhead console, here's some links http://deemsrv10.com/cabincoverlogindex.html http://deemsrv10.com/43-ohead.htm http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2043%20Cabin%20Cover/slides/DSC03438.html I haven't installed the intake yet (not that far along) But Wayne Eggerton has. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Bob Leffler wrote: >I'm interested in hearing if anyone has installed this on their 10 yet or if >you've looked at it and decided not to install it. > >Thanks, > >Bob > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 18, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Firewall covering
Brian Sutherland http://www.mykitlog.com/rv10builder installed this on his -10, you can find it on his website. I'd contact him directly for any questions. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Rob Wright wrote: > >Looking for experience with Koolmat >http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/koolmat.php > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 18, 2007
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Firewall covering
Rob, I'm using it. I saw it on Nextel cup cars firewalls first, Koolmat even recommends it on thier site. My install is just like Brian's. I cutout the engine mount areas but put the heat boxes on top of the mat. I was surprised at the weight, it was heavier than I expected about 4 lbs I guesstimate but it will hold off the heat and fire if it performs as Koolmat states. I am using dots of Red RTV to attach at the perimeter to allow the cover to be removed for corrosion inspection annually. It's nice looking material and I could not get it to burn with my propane torch, take the flame away and it just turned black. Rick S. 40185 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GenGrumpy(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 18, 2007
Subject: Re: Accuracy Avionics Air Scoop
I installed the console (first one Tony sold) and am very happy with it. I get lots of ventillation, even with all 4 vents open. I did not use Ton'ys scoop as esthetically it was awful and it was too vulnerable to things like rain, bugs (i.e., wasps, etc). I made my own small, aluminum scoops and fit them underneath the horizontal tail (thus protected from rain) and installed stainless steel screen to keep unwanted critters out. I installed the console using pop rivets with RTV between the console edges and the cabin top. Pretty easy and if I ever have to take it out, just drill out the pop rivet heads and pry loose from the RTV. I can send a picture of my home made scoops to anyone who wants it. And for those who are complaining about Tony's responsiveness......some things never change. Grumpy #40404 In a message dated 1/18/2007 9:26:38 AM Central Standard Time, deemsdavis(at)cox.net writes: Bob I installed the Overhead console, here's some links http://deemsrv10.com/cabincoverlogindex.html http://deemsrv10.com/43-ohead.htm http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2043%20Cabin%20Cover/slides/DSC03438.html I haven't installed the intake yet (not that far along) But Wayne Eggerton has. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Bob Leffler wrote: >I'm interested in hearing if anyone has installed this on their 10 yet or if >you've looked at it and decided not to install it. > >Thanks, > >Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Officially a Builder
Date: Jan 18, 2007
Congrads Mike, It is nice to know there is another builder so close by. Maybe you me and Tim can form the Cheese-Head Squadron ;-) Dave Leikam 40496 Waiting for fuse and wings. ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Doble (Home Office) To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 6:29 AM Subject: RV10-List: Officially a Builder Hi all! I picked up my emp kit on Tuesday from the shipping company. Inventory done, only two parts missing! (I thought that was good considering..) I have decided to name Tim Olsen on my reply to Vans regarding "Who inspired me the most to build an RV-10?" I did this because: 1. Tim's website is one of the first I found when I decided an RV-10 was for me. And as I have lingered out here over the years and watched his progress and first flight, it convinced me the -10 is the right airplane. It is especially motivating to see him and his family's trip log. I also have two little ones (4 and 6) and look forward to doing similar trips one day. The trip log was especially useful in showing the "Commander-in-Chief" (my wife) what can be done with such a great airplane. (See Joan..Tim's kids and wife are still smiling!!!!) 2. Tim's posts to this list typically are insightful and informative. A lot of his posts have landed in my "Keepers" folder under RV-10. (Thanks for the wheel pant bolt drawing last night!) 3. He's another Wisconsinite.. Not to slight the others that have inspired me, but Deems and CJ's web sites are great too and I for one really appreciate the effort to pass on your [absolutely golden] knowledge!!! Mike Builder 40691 Working on emp..YEAH!!!! Waukesha, Wisconsin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 18, 2007
From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Rudder cable exits on tailcone
Who used what here? I remember a recent post regarding 3rd party parts for this. I see something called 'DDD' in Mr Deems tailcone. Looking for advice here before I start riveting on the top skin. Thanks! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Firewall covering
Date: Jan 18, 2007
I'm unfamiliar with the corroding properties of stainless, since we all talk about the ALCLAD stuff so much. Any quick tidbits? Rob -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 12:46 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Firewall covering Rob, I'm using it. I saw it on Nextel cup cars firewalls first, Koolmat even recommends it on thier site. My install is just like Brian's. I cutout the engine mount areas but put the heat boxes on top of the mat. I was surprised at the weight, it was heavier than I expected about 4 lbs I guesstimate but it will hold off the heat and fire if it performs as Koolmat states. I am using dots of Red RTV to attach at the perimeter to allow the cover to be removed for corrosion inspection annually. It's nice looking material and I could not get it to burn with my propane torch, take the flame away and it just turned black. Rick S. 40185 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 19, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder cable exits on tailcone
I used parts from Aircraft Spruce, http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/ruddercable.php you can get them from Cleveland, Wicks and others no doubt. "DDD" is my shorthand for doing the "*D*rill, *D*ebur, and *D*imple" Dance, as your have learned by now, you get LOTS of practice at this! Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ MauleDriver wrote: > > Who used what here? I remember a recent post regarding 3rd party > parts for this. I see something called 'DDD' in Mr Deems tailcone. > Looking for advice here before I start riveting on the top skin. > > Thanks! > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Axle Extender length needed
Date: Jan 19, 2007
If you could find somebody with a CNC machine to make lots of 100 pairs the price would probably drop to $50.00 a set. At that price I would buy a set and at my conditional inspection when I had both mains off for service I would even buy a set. They are really sweet looking. The problem with having someone build one pair at a time on a lathe and mill is the setup time to do everything takes about an hour so you have to pay more. On a CNC machine doing a lot of 100 pairs the CNC operator can set up the machine one time, stick in the bar stock and go about doing other things while the parts are produced. As many RV-10 builders as exist, why doesn't somebody who has access to a company with a CNC machine explore a group buy of 100 sets!!! Russ Daves N710RV - RV-10 first flight 7/28/06 N65RV - Sold ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Subaru H-6 Eggenfellner conversion
From: "tomhanaway" <tomhanaway(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Jan 19, 2007
email sent Tom Hanaway Boynton Beach, FL N518TP reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88812#88812 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Axle Extender length needed
Date: Jan 19, 2007
I did that yesterday. Using Tim's drawing, I was quoted $60 each with a minimum order of 10. Since I was thinking of doing it anyway, I may just by the 10 and see if I can sell the extra 8. Still thinking... "These parts made out of 6061-T6 aluminum with alodine and primer would be $60 each with minimum order of 10 or more" Rene' Felker 40322 N423CF 801-721-6080 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 6:10 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Axle Extender length needed If you could find somebody with a CNC machine to make lots of 100 pairs the price would probably drop to $50.00 a set. At that price I would buy a set and at my conditional inspection when I had both mains off for service I would even buy a set. They are really sweet looking. The problem with having someone build one pair at a time on a lathe and mill is the setup time to do everything takes about an hour so you have to pay more. On a CNC machine doing a lot of 100 pairs the CNC operator can set up the machine one time, stick in the bar stock and go about doing other things while the parts are produced. As many RV-10 builders as exist, why doesn't somebody who has access to a company with a CNC machine explore a group buy of 100 sets!!! Russ Daves N710RV - RV-10 first flight 7/28/06 N65RV - Sold ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Axle Extender length needed
Date: Jan 19, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Ren=E9, Is that $60 per pair? I would be interested. What steel are you using? Jack Phillips #40610 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 9:12 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Axle Extender length needed I did that yesterday. Using Tim's drawing, I was quoted $60 each with a mi nimum order of 10. Since I was thinking of doing it anyway, I may just by the 10 and see if I can sell the extra 8. Still thinking..... "These parts made out of 6061-T6 aluminum with alodine and primer would be $60 each with minimum order of 10 or more" Rene' Felker 40322 N423CF 801-721-6080 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 6:10 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Axle Extender length needed If you could find somebody with a CNC machine to make lots of 100 pairs the price would probably drop to $50.00 a set. At that price I would buy a se t and at my conditional inspection when I had both mains off for service I would even buy a set. They are really sweet looking. The problem with hav ing someone build one pair at a time on a lathe and mill is the setup time to do everything takes about an hour so you have to pay more. On a CNC machine doing a lot of 100 pairs the CNC operator can set up the m achine one time, stick in the bar stock and go about doing other things whi le the parts are produced. As many RV-10 builders as exist, why doesn't somebody who has access to a c ompany with a CNC machine explore a group buy of 100 sets!!! Russ Daves N710RV - RV-10 first flight 7/28/06 N65RV - Sold _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Axle Extender length needed
Date: Jan 19, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
"Duh..." now I see the material listed as 6061-T6. Pays to read more carefully Jack #40610 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 9:12 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Axle Extender length needed I did that yesterday. Using Tim's drawing, I was quoted $60 each with a minimum order of 10. Since I was thinking of doing it anyway, I may just by the 10 and see if I can sell the extra 8. Still thinking..... "These parts made out of 6061-T6 aluminum with alodine and primer would be $60 each with minimum order of 10 or more" Rene' Felker 40322 N423CF 801-721-6080 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 6:10 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Axle Extender length needed If you could find somebody with a CNC machine to make lots of 100 pairs the price would probably drop to $50.00 a set. At that price I would buy a set and at my conditional inspection when I had both mains off for service I would even buy a set. They are really sweet looking. The problem with having someone build one pair at a time on a lathe and mill is the setup time to do everything takes about an hour so you have to pay more. On a CNC machine doing a lot of 100 pairs the CNC operator can set up the machine one time, stick in the bar stock and go about doing other things while the parts are produced. As many RV-10 builders as exist, why doesn't somebody who has access to a company with a CNC machine explore a group buy of 100 sets!!! Russ Daves N710RV - RV-10 first flight 7/28/06 N65RV - Sold _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Axle Extender length needed
Date: Jan 19, 2007
No that is $60 a piece. Makes the $150 shipping number look in line with reasonable. Rene' Felker 40322 N423CF 801-721-6080 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 7:30 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Axle Extender length needed "Duh..." now I see the material listed as 6061-T6. Pays to read more carefully Jack #40610 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 9:12 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Axle Extender length needed I did that yesterday. Using Tim's drawing, I was quoted $60 each with a minimum order of 10. Since I was thinking of doing it anyway, I may just by the 10 and see if I can sell the extra 8. Still thinking... "These parts made out of 6061-T6 aluminum with alodine and primer would be $60 each with minimum order of 10 or more" Rene' Felker 40322 N423CF 801-721-6080 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 6:10 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Axle Extender length needed If you could find somebody with a CNC machine to make lots of 100 pairs the price would probably drop to $50.00 a set. At that price I would buy a set and at my conditional inspection when I had both mains off for service I would even buy a set. They are really sweet looking. The problem with having someone build one pair at a time on a lathe and mill is the setup time to do everything takes about an hour so you have to pay more. On a CNC machine doing a lot of 100 pairs the CNC operator can set up the machine one time, stick in the bar stock and go about doing other things while the parts are produced. As many RV-10 builders as exist, why doesn't somebody who has access to a company with a CNC machine explore a group buy of 100 sets!!! Russ Daves N710RV - RV-10 first flight 7/28/06 N65RV - Sold <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List <http://forums.matronics.com> http://forums.matronics.com _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Axle Extender length needed
Date: Jan 19, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Jack come on did you read the post? The answers are all listed there, it says the part is made from 6061-T6 aluminum and they are $60 each not per pair each. "GRIN" Dan _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 9:28 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Axle Extender length needed Ren=E9, Is that $60 per pair? I would be interested. What steel are you using? Jack Phillips #40610 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 9:12 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Axle Extender length needed I did that yesterday. Using Tim's drawing, I was quoted $60 each with a minimum order of 10. Since I was thinking of doing it anyway, I may just by the 10 and see if I can sell the extra 8. Still thinking..... "These parts made out of 6061-T6 aluminum with alodine and primer would be $60 each with minimum order of 10 or more" Rene' Felker 40322 N423CF 801-721-6080 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 6:10 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Axle Extender length needed If you could find somebody with a CNC machine to make lots of 100 pairs the price would probably drop to $50.00 a set. At that price I would buy a set and at my conditional inspection when I had both mains off for service I would even buy a set. They are really sweet looking. The problem with having someone build one pair at a time on a lathe and mill is the setup time to do everything takes about an hour so you have to pay more. On a CNC machine doing a lot of 100 pairs the CNC operator can set up the machine one time, stick in the bar stock and go about doing other things while the parts are produced. As many RV-10 builders as exist, why doesn't somebody who has access to a company with a CNC machine explore a group buy of 100 sets!!! Russ Daves N710RV - RV-10 first flight 7/28/06 N65RV - Sold http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <rvmail(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: Shop Organization
Date: Jan 19, 2007
I've been reading material found all over on a variety of web sites, but I'm still looking for a "best practice" on how to organize all the various rivets, screws, etc. It seems to me that keeping them all in the bags may becoming problematic after awhile. So what has worked well for you? Equally important, what didn't work well for you. thanks, bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 19, 2007
Subject: Re: Shop Organization
From: Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net>
rvmail(at)thelefflers.com wrote: > > It seems to me that keeping them all in the bags may becoming problematic after awhile. > Heh heh, I've been keeping them all in the bags... :-) I make sure there is a good label on the bag, and tend to keep the "like" rivets together, such as flush AD-3s in one group, flush AD-4s in another, etc. Other have used things like this: <http://www.fodcontrol.com/trey.html> or this: <http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ha/cabinet.html> -Dj ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Shop Organization
Date: Jan 19, 2007
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
What worked well for me was to buy some of those parts cabinets and unload everything into the drawers. Label each drawer and then recycle unused ones when the next kit shows. It probably takes me about 4 hours to inventory the bags and get the parts put away and the bins labeled, but it saves a lot of time on the backend. Some pics are here: http://www.mykitlog.com/users/category.php?user=msausen&project=22&categ ory=619 Michael Sausen -10 #352 limbo -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rvmail(at)thelefflers.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 10:04 AM Subject: RV10-List: Shop Organization I've been reading material found all over on a variety of web sites, but I'm still looking for a "best practice" on how to organize all the various rivets, screws, etc. It seems to me that keeping them all in the bags may becoming problematic after awhile. So what has worked well for you? Equally important, what didn't work well for you. thanks, bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 19, 2007
From: Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Shop Organization
Bob I am sure there are wiser people than I on the list, but as one who has asked the same questions here is what I did. The Yard Store (www.yardstore.com) sells the Extreme Rivet Tray which has spring loaded covers. Given that I have knocked it off my table once and didn't spill a single rivet, I can attest that it turned what have been a very "riveting" experience into a non event. Here is a link to it: http://www.yardstore.com/index.cfm?action=ViewDetails&ItemID=885 As well, I got some small parts trays (with a cover) that I used to organize all the bits and bobs that came with my tail kit. After inventorying each bag, I put the contents into the appropriate bin which was labeled with Avery computer labels. So far, I have always been able to find a part within seconds and have not lost anything. I can sent you the empennage parts bin labels electronically if you wish - they are printed on standard Avery Labels. Each subit was inventoried into a separate parts bin. I kept the subkits intact so I could always find a particular part by referincing the Vans part list and just looking in the appropraite bin. Parts that were too large to put in bins were lfet in the shipping crates so they wouldn't get damaged. I installed hinges on the flat shipping crate so the lid would open easily and safely. I have a few Rubbermaid plastic bins into which I place all the parts I "pull" when building a particular subassembly. At the end of the day all parts go back into the bin so the chances of losing a small item in the workshop debris is limited. I also try not to leave things on the workbench or elsewhere while working - everything goes back into the bin until needed. Cheers Les Kearney RV10 # 40643 - Lost in the empennage -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rvmail(at)thelefflers.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 9:04 AM Subject: RV10-List: Shop Organization I've been reading material found all over on a variety of web sites, but I'm still looking for a "best practice" on how to organize all the various rivets, screws, etc. It seems to me that keeping them all in the bags may becoming problematic after awhile. So what has worked well for you? Equally important, what didn't work well for you. thanks, bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rudder cable exits on tailcone
Date: Jan 19, 2007
From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
I used the same parts from spruce. I wanted the cables to be removable in case of, well I don't know what exactly... I used countersunk #6 screw nutplates. That also allowed me to have the fairings slightly more aft to "capture" the cable sleeve. One thing that I learned though is that putting the one screw directly in line with the opening makes it tougher to install the cables later. If I had it to do again, I might use 4 screws instead of 3 so I could keep the one out of the way for the cable sleeve, or just offset the one in the front to one side of the hole. Here's a picture: http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Tailcone%208. html cj #40410 fuse www.perfectlygoodairplane.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 4:35 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rudder cable exits on tailcone I used parts from Aircraft Spruce, http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/ruddercable.php you can get them from Cleveland, Wicks and others no doubt. "DDD" is my shorthand for doing the "*D*rill, *D*ebur, and *D*imple" Dance, as your have learned by now, you get LOTS of practice at this! Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ MauleDriver wrote: > > Who used what here? I remember a recent post regarding 3rd party > parts for this. I see something called 'DDD' in Mr Deems tailcone. > Looking for advice here before I start riveting on the top skin. > > Thanks! > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Shop Organization
Date: Jan 19, 2007
What has worked the best for us is to buy little trays with lids like you can guy in the fishing department of Wal-Mart. The trays need to be able to close and latch, then you really want a clear plastic lid (all IMHO). Write the size of the rivet on the lid and on the back of each compartment. We have 3-4 trays for rivets, one for screws, 1 each for AN3, AN4 and AN5 bolts (with washers and nuts in the same drawer), 1 for special washers, 1 for special nuts, 1 for snap bushings, 1 or 2 for rod end bearings and threaded rod ends (which you could do without, but it is nice to keep them this way), and a couple extras for misc stuff. In fact, one time I found a little set of 4 trays that fit in a little carrying case with a handle. It is so nice to be able to grab a tray or set of trays and take it where you are working with, say, AN3 bolts and have everything you need right there with you. Also, getting the set of bolts/nuts/washers that Spruce sells is a great help in case you need to go up or down a size somewhere. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rvmail(at)thelefflers.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 11:04 AM Subject: RV10-List: Shop Organization I've been reading material found all over on a variety of web sites, but I'm still looking for a "best practice" on how to organize all the various rivets, screws, etc. It seems to me that keeping them all in the bags may becoming problematic after awhile. So what has worked well for you? Equally important, what didn't work well for you. thanks, bob -- 6:47 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Control Rod Rigging/Clearance
Date: Jan 19, 2007
OK, I have finally been through this point and, as promised, am going to provide a little feedback on the jigs that Van's has us make to rig the controls. First of all, with the aft-most pushrod for the elevator, getting the elevator rigged correctly (91.4 degrees on the bellcrank by the battery) required me to shorten the pushrod 6 or 7 full threads from the measurement in the plans. This got the elevators in trail and the bellcrank at the angle required. Second, with both of the forward elevator pushrods, having made them the length called out, I only had to lengthen one of them one full thread to get the elevator in trail using the little measuring bar from the spar forward to the welded control arm in the front. With this rigged, the only place that touched with full elevator travel was the cross-control-bar on the front of the hole in the F-1048L&R as seen in the attached picture. A little grinding on that an we are good to go. For those of you who are working on this, please don't forget to put the front bearing of the front pushrod on the end of the rod that was drilled for the safety wire. It is a pain in the neck getting that fixed after everything is installed. Ask me how I know. So, in summary, I guess not all planes are the same, but I am very glad that the little rigging parts are designed for us. They certainly do work (for me). Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Shop Organization
Date: Jan 19, 2007
All the answers you'll get are correct, in this particular category. However, Les is leading a charmed life. I've knocked over my spring lidded marvel of an rivet tray and this is what good it did me..... http://www.soundingsresearch.com/RV-10/Images/Empennage/Tailcone/IMG_3525_30 .html So, as others have pointed out, your mileage will definitely vary. I like to pick up some take out food on the way to the hanger, which is definitely adding to the overall cost of the plane. Usually I get some type of soup, mainly because the plastic containers are just the right size with a lid that stays put. Makes for great storage for bulk or oversized parts. But mostly I use one of the many platic drawer organizers that you can pick up for cheap at HD or Sears. Get one with large drawers and one with all small drawers and you'll almost have enough room. I actually do like the spring loaded rivet tray, but depending on how it hits a cement floor, it may not perform all that well. But the most important thing is to take the time to sort and label everything, no matter the container system. This will be well worth it in the long run. I typically label by both part number and bag number. Have fun! John Jessen #328 (back at it tomorrow! Huzzah!) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 8:48 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Shop Organization Bob I am sure there are wiser people than I on the list, but as one who has asked the same questions here is what I did. The Yard Store (www.yardstore.com) sells the Extreme Rivet Tray which has spring loaded covers. Given that I have knocked it off my table once and didn't spill a single rivet, I can attest that it turned what have been a very "riveting" experience into a non event. Here is a link to it: http://www.yardstore.com/index.cfm?action=ViewDetails&ItemID=885 As well, I got some small parts trays (with a cover) that I used to organize all the bits and bobs that came with my tail kit. After inventorying each bag, I put the contents into the appropriate bin which was labeled with Avery computer labels. So far, I have always been able to find a part within seconds and have not lost anything. I can sent you the empennage parts bin labels electronically if you wish - they are printed on standard Avery Labels. Each subit was inventoried into a separate parts bin. I kept the subkits intact so I could always find a particular part by referincing the Vans part list and just looking in the appropraite bin. Parts that were too large to put in bins were lfet in the shipping crates so they wouldn't get damaged. I installed hinges on the flat shipping crate so the lid would open easily and safely. I have a few Rubbermaid plastic bins into which I place all the parts I "pull" when building a particular subassembly. At the end of the day all parts go back into the bin so the chances of losing a small item in the workshop debris is limited. I also try not to leave things on the workbench or elsewhere while working - everything goes back into the bin until needed. Cheers Les Kearney RV10 # 40643 - Lost in the empennage -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rvmail(at)thelefflers.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 9:04 AM Subject: RV10-List: Shop Organization I've been reading material found all over on a variety of web sites, but I'm still looking for a "best practice" on how to organize all the various rivets, screws, etc. It seems to me that keeping them all in the bags may becoming problematic after awhile. So what has worked well for you? Equally important, what didn't work well for you. thanks, bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 19, 2007
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>
Subject: Shop organization
I uploaded a couple of pictures to mykitlog on how I've organized things. Basically, just get several plastic boxes and bin organizers from Wal-Mart or your local supplier. Get some tape and a sharpie and label the bins. Make sure whatever you have your rivets in is lockable. There are too many stories of wasted weekends trying to separate out fallen rivets. Open the container, get a few out and transfer them to a 35 mm plastic can or small lid. Lock the big box up and never set it where it can spill. Another thing that I have found helpful is my woodworking bench. Wood blocks and some hold downs are very helpful when you are trying to rivet a long spar. You always seem to need a third hand. I think I uploaded some pics when I built the flaps. Also on Mykitlog. I'll take a couple of pics of some riveting tips that I have found useful. Especially when putting several thicknesses of parts together. Hope this helps. Fred Williams 40515 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 19, 2007
From: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Shop Organization
Rivet trays. Go to www.yardstore.com page# 16 in their catalog (Cat# 70 2006), part# 14299 for new ones. I ordered two of their "used" ones. Great trays, carry handle, spring loaded covers (in case you forget to close them). Can hold from 8 to 16 different sizes (16 if you buy the split inserts). I bought two trays five years ago, GREAT item. Get on their mailing list, they always have specials going. Used tools etc. KABONG HRII N561FS Archive this one. Subject: RE: RV10-List: Shop Organization > > What has worked the best for us is to buy little trays with lids like you > can guy in the fishing department of Wal-Mart. The trays need to be able > to > close and latch, then you really want a clear plastic lid (all IMHO). > Write > the size of the rivet on the lid and on the back of each compartment. We > have 3-4 trays for rivets, one for screws, 1 each for AN3, AN4 and AN5 > bolts ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net>
Subject: Shop Organization
Date: Jan 19, 2007
I went down to the local aircraft supply store, Home Depot and bought 3 cabinets, plastic with trays in them 2 1/4 high by about 4 1/2 wide by 5 deep and they are three columns and 6 rows. Now wish I had bought 4, but it has keep me out of the bag search. Bob K 90/90 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rvmail(at)thelefflers.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 8:04 AM Subject: RV10-List: Shop Organization I've been reading material found all over on a variety of web sites, but I'm still looking for a "best practice" on how to organize all the various rivets, screws, etc. It seems to me that keeping them all in the bags may becoming problematic after awhile. So what has worked well for you? Equally important, what didn't work well for you. thanks, bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Officially a Builder
Date: Jan 19, 2007
Hey, Mike, congratulations. You'll love it. John Jessen _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Doble (Home Office) Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:29 AM Subject: RV10-List: Officially a Builder Hi all! I picked up my emp kit on Tuesday from the shipping company. Inventory done, only two parts missing! (I thought that was good considering..) I have decided to name Tim Olsen on my reply to Vans regarding "Who inspired me the most to build an RV-10?" I did this because: 1. Tim's website is one of the first I found when I decided an RV-10 was for me. And as I have lingered out here over the years and watched his progress and first flight, it convinced me the -10 is the right airplane. It is especially motivating to see him and his family's trip log. I also have two little ones (4 and 6) and look forward to doing similar trips one day. The trip log was especially useful in showing the "Commander-in-Chief" (my wife) what can be done with such a great airplane. (See Joan..Tim's kids and wife are still smiling!!!!) 2. Tim's posts to this list typically are insightful and informative. A lot of his posts have landed in my "Keepers" folder under RV-10. (Thanks for the wheel pant bolt drawing last night!) 3. He's another Wisconsinite.. Not to slight the others that have inspired me, but Deems and CJ's web sites are great too and I for one really appreciate the effort to pass on your [absolutely golden] knowledge!!! Mike Builder 40691 Working on emp..YEAH!!!! Waukesha, Wisconsin ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Shop Organization
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
Date: Jan 19, 2007
When they were making "From the Ground Up," I was over at Oshkosh for a SportAir workshop and they let us tour the "set" (it was the hangar) where Joe Schumacher was building the plane. It was a FABULOUS workshop (perhaps you've seen the videos). One thing I thought was cool is he made an A-frame structure on casters. On one side he mounted all of the plans, so you could flip it up and over. On the other side he had several rows of trays...with baby-food jars holding all the parts in an organized fashion. I didn't construct the A-frame, but I did make a unit with shelvesof baby food jars, each holding a difference sized , rivet, platenut, screw, washer etc. I also created spreadsheets as I unpacked each subkit, indicating where I put it, so that when it came time -- usually months later, sometimes years, I'd just fire up the spreadsheet and look it up. -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88962#88962 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com>
Subject: Rudder cable exits on tailcone
Date: Jan 19, 2007
Chris, I somewhat copied your design when I was working on the tailcone except I went ahead and put 4 screws in instead of 3. I haven't run the cables through the tailcone yet so I can't say if it ends up being better or not. You can see some pictures here: http://www.sinkrate.com/rv10/rudder-fairing/ You will notice in the 5th picture I ended up using a flush pop-rivet because my nutplate rivet hole ended up being right inline with the angle aluminum on second to last bulkhead in the tailcone. I couldn't come up with a way to buck the rivet. Dimpling the nutplate attach holes with the pop-rivet dimple die was quite challenging. It took quite a few 4 letter expletives to complete. If I would have moved the nutplate about 1/4" toward the back life would have been easier. In fact I remember thinking hmmm I wonder what my drill bit just ran into when I drilled the nutplates :-) oops. You know how it is. Some days you're just not so good at airplaining. -Ben Westfall #40579 - Gas Tanks Portland, OR -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 8:51 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rudder cable exits on tailcone I used the same parts from spruce. I wanted the cables to be removable in case of, well I don't know what exactly... I used countersunk #6 screw nutplates. That also allowed me to have the fairings slightly more aft to "capture" the cable sleeve. One thing that I learned though is that putting the one screw directly in line with the opening makes it tougher to install the cables later. If I had it to do again, I might use 4 screws instead of 3 so I could keep the one out of the way for the cable sleeve, or just offset the one in the front to one side of the hole. Here's a picture: http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Tailcone%208. html cj #40410 fuse www.perfectlygoodairplane.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 4:35 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rudder cable exits on tailcone I used parts from Aircraft Spruce, http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/ruddercable.php you can get them from Cleveland, Wicks and others no doubt. "DDD" is my shorthand for doing the "*D*rill, *D*ebur, and *D*imple" Dance, as your have learned by now, you get LOTS of practice at this! Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ MauleDriver wrote: > > Who used what here? I remember a recent post regarding 3rd party > parts for this. I see something called 'DDD' in Mr Deems tailcone. > Looking for advice here before I start riveting on the top skin. > > Thanks! > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 19, 2007
From: rv10builder <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Control Rod Rigging/Clearance
Thanks Jesse for the post. I'll probably spend the weekend checking lengths and angles again! Brian http://www.mykitlog.com/rv10builder Jesse Saint wrote: > > OK, I have finally been through this point and, as promised, am going > to provide a little feedback on the jigs that Vans has us make to rig > the controls. > > First of all, with the aft-most pushrod for the elevator, getting the > elevator rigged correctly (91.4 degrees on the bellcrank by the > battery) required me to shorten the pushrod 6 or 7 full threads from > the measurement in the plans. This got the elevators in trail and the > bellcrank at the angle required. > > Second, with both of the forward elevator pushrods, having made them > the length called out, I only had to lengthen one of them one full > thread to get the elevator in trail using the little measuring bar > from the spar forward to the welded control arm in the front. With > this rigged, the only place that touched with full elevator travel was > the cross-control-bar on the front of the hole in the F-1048L&R as > seen in the attached picture. A little grinding on that an we are good > to go. > > For those of you who are working on this, please dont forget to put > the front bearing of the front pushrod on the end of the rod that was > drilled for the safety wire. It is a pain in the neck getting that > fixed after everything is installed. Ask me how I know. > > So, in summary, I guess not all planes are the same, but I am very > glad that the little rigging parts are designed for us. They certainly > do work (for me). > > Jesse Saint > > Saint Aviation, Inc. > > jesse(at)saintaviation.com > > www.saintaviation.com <http://www.saintaviation.com> > > Cell: 352-427-0285 > > Fax: 815-377-3694 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Baggage door lock
Date: Jan 19, 2007
Other than using the lock from Van's which comes with the magneto switch from the Van's catalog, does anyone know of another lock that will work with the parts that Van's includes in the Kit. Or are there any marking or numbers on the lock that Van's sells so that I can locate it at a lock shop. I went to a lock shop yesterday and we went through a lot of cam locks and non of them accepted the swing lever that was included in the kit. Reason for not buying the Van's lock----I am probably not using the Magneto switch. Thanks, John G. 409 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jay Rowe" <jfrjr(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: shoulder harness wear blocks
Date: Jan 19, 2007
Am I going blind? I can not find the F-6114B and C wear blocks in my supply pile nor can I find those parts listed in the "Bag Lists". Are they to be made out of stock material, or what? Help!! Jay Rowe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 19, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Baggage door lock
John, Aircraft Spruce makes the locks and the switches that Van's sells, you can buy the locks directly from ACS, they sell them in pairs. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ John Gonzalez wrote: > > Other than using the lock from Van's which comes with the magneto > switch from the Van's catalog, does anyone know of another lock that > will work with the parts that Van's includes in the Kit. > > Or are there any marking or numbers on the lock that Van's sells so > that I can locate it at a lock shop. > > I went to a lock shop yesterday and we went through a lot of cam locks > and non of them accepted the swing lever that was included in the kit. > > Reason for not buying the Van's lock----I am probably not using the > Magneto switch. > > Thanks, > > John G. 409 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rudder cable exits on tailcone
Date: Jan 19, 2007
From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
Yea - happily that's one time where I almost got it right... I put the nutplate attach stuff BEFORE I riveted the tailcone skin on. Yay. So dimpling and riveting was an easy task. Sometimes I'm good at airplaining! :) cj #40410 fuse www.perfectlygoodairplane.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 2:59 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rudder cable exits on tailcone Chris, I somewhat copied your design when I was working on the tailcone except I went ahead and put 4 screws in instead of 3. I haven't run the cables through the tailcone yet so I can't say if it ends up being better or not. You can see some pictures here: http://www.sinkrate.com/rv10/rudder-fairing/ You will notice in the 5th picture I ended up using a flush pop-rivet because my nutplate rivet hole ended up being right inline with the angle aluminum on second to last bulkhead in the tailcone. I couldn't come up with a way to buck the rivet. Dimpling the nutplate attach holes with the pop-rivet dimple die was quite challenging. It took quite a few 4 letter expletives to complete. If I would have moved the nutplate about 1/4" toward the back life would have been easier. In fact I remember thinking hmmm I wonder what my drill bit just ran into when I drilled the nutplates :-) oops. You know how it is. Some days you're just not so good at airplaining. -Ben Westfall #40579 - Gas Tanks Portland, OR -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 8:51 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rudder cable exits on tailcone I used the same parts from spruce. I wanted the cables to be removable in case of, well I don't know what exactly... I used countersunk #6 screw nutplates. That also allowed me to have the fairings slightly more aft to "capture" the cable sleeve. One thing that I learned though is that putting the one screw directly in line with the opening makes it tougher to install the cables later. If I had it to do again, I might use 4 screws instead of 3 so I could keep the one out of the way for the cable sleeve, or just offset the one in the front to one side of the hole. Here's a picture: http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Perfectlygoodairplane/Tailcone%208. html cj #40410 fuse www.perfectlygoodairplane.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 4:35 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rudder cable exits on tailcone I used parts from Aircraft Spruce, http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/ruddercable.php you can get them from Cleveland, Wicks and others no doubt. "DDD" is my shorthand for doing the "*D*rill, *D*ebur, and *D*imple" Dance, as your have learned by now, you get LOTS of practice at this! Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ MauleDriver wrote: > > Who used what here? I remember a recent post regarding 3rd party > parts for this. I see something called 'DDD' in Mr Deems tailcone. > Looking for advice here before I start riveting on the top skin. > > Thanks! > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 19, 2007
From: Dave Lammers <davelammers(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: Baggage door lock
John, You can buy the lock separately from Spruce&Specialty--I did--because I'm not using a Mag switch either. Dave Lammers fuselage John Gonzalez wrote: > > Other than using the lock from Van's which comes with the magneto > switch from the Van's catalog, does anyone know of another lock that > will work with the parts that Van's includes in the Kit. > > Or are there any marking or numbers on the lock that Van's sells so > that I can locate it at a lock shop. > > I went to a lock shop yesterday and we went through a lot of cam locks > and non of them accepted the swing lever that was included in the kit. > > Reason for not buying the Van's lock----I am probably not using the > Magneto switch. > > Thanks, > > John G. 409 > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Text inserted by Panda Platinum 2005 Internet Security: > > This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited > mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: > http://127.0.0.1:6083/Panda?ID=pav_40529&SPAM=true > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Fiberglass supplies needed?
Date: Jan 19, 2007
OK! I'm ready to start the fiberglass work. What materials do I need on hand to do the job right? And what new tools do I get to buy? ;-) My short list so far is: Fiberglass cloth Fiberglass matt Microballons Flox Resin (which brand?, how much?) Hardener Pump? Epoxy to attach fairings (again, what brand & how much?) Primer/filler (not the dreaded primer topic again......please) Thinner Acetone Sander(s) etc............ ERic-- 40014 Fiberglass Finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)cox.net>
Subject: My RV-10 gets to fly
Date: Jan 20, 2007
CongratulationsI am sending this South African post from a fellow RV-10 builder to the List, hope the picture comes through. Russ Daves ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave & Brenda Emond Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:06 PM Guys Just a quick email to say thank you. I finally made it to the flying stage. What an awesome aircraft. Van is one helluva guy. Regards Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com>
Subject: My RV-10 gets to fly
Date: Jan 20, 2007
Russ, That's one good looking RV-10. Dave has reason to be proud. Why don't you send the picture to Doug Reeves so he can put it on the "flying Rv-10's" page. Last time I looked he had 23 pictures. Mark >From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)cox.net> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV10-List: My RV-10 gets to fly >Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 05:27:23 -0600 > >CongratulationsI am sending this South African post from a fellow RV-10 >builder to the List, hope the picture comes through. > >Russ Daves > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Dave & Brenda Emond >To: Russell Daves ; Tim Olson ; Vicsyracuse(at)aol.com >Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:06 PM > >Guys > >Just a quick email to say thank you. I finally made it to the flying stage. > >What an awesome aircraft. Van is one helluva guy. > >Regards > >Dave ><< RV10-RVD-02.jpg >> _________________________________________________________________ Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 20, 2007
From: "W. Curtis" <wcurtis(at)core.com>
Subject:
John, Try the Lowes (or Home Depot) aviation department. These are standard cabinet locks. 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January 15, 2007 - January 20, 2007

RV10-Archive.digest.vol-by