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March 07, 2007 - March 30, 2007

It's been suggested that RG-58 is not acceptable and the cable length is critical. Also that the antenna needs to change. ERic-- RV-10, 40014 N104EP ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Garmin 430/530 and WAAS
Date: Mar 07, 2007
Has anyone had the 430/530 WAAS conversion done and installed it? We need to know if there were any modification needed to the plane's wiring or antennas. It's been suggested that RG-58 is not acceptable and the cable length is critical. Also that the antenna needs to change. ERic-- RV-10, 40014 N104EP ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com>
Subject: SL30 For Sale
Date: Mar 07, 2007
Hello All, I am replacing my SL30 with a Gramin 530. Stein has offered me $2800 in trade for the 530. It is yours for the same price if you are interested. Just trying to save someone a little money. The SL30 was purchased in June of 2006 and has been installed in my RV10 since then. It comes with the tray and wiring for Fast Stack Hub. It is still under warranty and the warranty Card has not been mailed. Contact me off-line. Thanks, Rob. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Overhead Liner
Niko, THANKS for the link, I'm very interested in what you find/learn as the finishing of the headliner around the cabin door openings and door posts is one of the (many) things I haven't got a solution to yet. I'd appreciate your posting what you find when you receive your material samples. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Niko wrote: > I haven't tested it. I am currently waiting for samples of all of > their binding material. > > Niko > > -- > * > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2007
From: "John Lewis" <john(at)aspzone.com>
Subject: Please use my new email address.
Please use my new email address. I had to close this email account due to an excessive amount of spam. Click http://aspzone.com/JohnsNewEmail.jpg to view my new address. You will have to resend your message in order for me to receive it. Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2007
From: Darton Steve <sfdarton(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Garmin 430/530 and WAAS
I am Getting the upgrade in two weeks. The box is a slide in because it is your own box that is sent to Garmin in Kansas. The antenna is replaced. The antenna coax has to have a specific gain? The shop doing my upgrade purchased the test equipment to measure this. Without that device Garmin is recommending to install (if I recall correctly) 20 or 30 foot coax to the new antenna. With a non WAAS antenna you want to use a short coax. Also if you have multiple units, 430/430 or 530/430, if you only upgrade one unit the crossfil function will no longer work. Steve 40212 --- Eric Parlow wrote: > > > Has anyone had the 430/530 WAAS conversion done and > installed it? > > We need to know if there were any modification > needed to the plane's wiring > or antennas. > > It's been suggested that RG-58 is not acceptable and > the cable length is > critical. Also that the antenna needs to change. > > ERic-- > RV-10, 40014 > N104EP > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > > Web Forums! > > > > > Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2007
From: "John Lewis" <john(at)aspzone.com>
Subject: Please use my new email address.
Please use my new email address. I had to close this email account due to an excessive amount of spam. Click http://aspzone.com/JohnsNewEmail.jpg to view my new address. You will have to resend your message in order for me to receive it. Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2007
From: "John Lewis" <john(at)aspzone.com>
Subject: Please use my new email address.
Please use my new email address. I had to close this email account due to an excessive amount of spam. Click http://aspzone.com/JohnsNewEmail.jpg to view my new address. You will have to resend your message in order for me to receive it. Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2007
From: "John Lewis" <john(at)aspzone.com>
Subject: Please use my new email address.
Please use my new email address. I had to close this email account due to an excessive amount of spam. Click http://aspzone.com/JohnsNewEmail.jpg to view my new address. You will have to resend your message in order for me to receive it. Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Dynon and MAC Servos
Date: Mar 07, 2007
I'm wiring up my Dynon 180 and finding that it doesn't seem to be directly compatible with the MAC servos that we use for trim control. MAC outputs position indication on 3 wires to their LED indicator but if you want to put that into the Dynon, their input is from a variable pot that they excite with 5 volts and use the variable input on one of the 3 general purpose inputs. I don't see a problem with this except using the MAC output would be a lot cleaner. I guess I will have to backtrack and add a pot to measure position to each of the MAC servos. Anyone else have a better idea? Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ RV-10 #10-422 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2007
From: "John Lewis" <john(at)aspzone.com>
Subject: Please use my new email address.
Please use my new email address. I had to close this email account due to an excessive amount of spam. Click http://aspzone.com/JohnsNewEmail.jpg to view my new address. You will have to resend your message in order for me to receive it. Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2007
From: "John Lewis" <john(at)aspzone.com>
Subject: Please use my new email address.
Please use my new email address. I had to close this email account due to an excessive amount of spam. Click http://aspzone.com/JohnsNewEmail.jpg to view my new address. You will have to resend your message in order for me to receive it. Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2007
From: "John Lewis" <john(at)aspzone.com>
Subject: Please use my new email address.
Please use my new email address. I had to close this email account due to an excessive amount of spam. Click http://aspzone.com/JohnsNewEmail.jpg to view my new address. You will have to resend your message in order for me to receive it. Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2007
From: "John Lewis" <john(at)aspzone.com>
Subject: Please use my new email address.
Please use my new email address. I had to close this email account due to an excessive amount of spam. Click http://aspzone.com/JohnsNewEmail.jpg to view my new address. You will have to resend your message in order for me to receive it. Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2007
From: "John Lewis" <john(at)aspzone.com>
Subject: Please use my new email address.
Please use my new email address. I had to close this email account due to an excessive amount of spam. Click http://aspzone.com/JohnsNewEmail.jpg to view my new address. You will have to resend your message in order for me to receive it. Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2007
From: "John Lewis" <john(at)aspzone.com>
Subject: Please use my new email address.
Please use my new email address. I had to close this email account due to an excessive amount of spam. Click http://aspzone.com/JohnsNewEmail.jpg to view my new address. You will have to resend your message in order for me to receive it. Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2007
From: "John Lewis" <john(at)aspzone.com>
Subject: Please use my new email address.
Please use my new email address. I had to close this email account due to an excessive amount of spam. Click http://aspzone.com/JohnsNewEmail.jpg to view my new address. You will have to resend your message in order for me to receive it. Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2007
From: "John Lewis" <john(at)aspzone.com>
Subject: Please use my new email address.
Please use my new email address. I had to close this email account due to an excessive amount of spam. Click http://aspzone.com/JohnsNewEmail.jpg to view my new address. You will have to resend your message in order for me to receive it. Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Dynon and MAC Servos
Date: Mar 07, 2007
Wow! I posted this message a minute ago and it doesn't have any line feeds in it so I'm trying again-should be more readable, I hope now, Albert. I'm wiring up my Dynon 180 and finding that it doesn't seem to be directly compatible with the MAC servos that we use for trim control. MAC outputs position indication on 3 wires to their LED indicator but if you want to put that into the Dynon, their input is from a variable pot that they excite with 5 volts and use the variable input on one of the 3 general purpose inputs. I don't see a problem with this except using the MAC output would be a lot cleaner. I guess I will have to backtrack and add a pot to measure position to each of the MAC servos. Anyone else have a better idea? Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ RV-10 #10-422 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Garmin 430/530 and WAAS
Date: Mar 07, 2007
Here's what we've learned about the WAAS upgrade so far from Aviation Consumer. Garmin is holding to its offering of $1500 box upgrades New 430W/530W are selling for $10,750/$16495 respectively While 430/530 are still selling for $9253/$14998 respectively The installation is covered by an AML/STC This AML/STC required specific standards and requirements for the installation If you aircraft is on the AML it requires a field approval(certified aircraft) The GA56 antenna supplied with the 430/530 will not work The A34 is approved antenna with the same foot print but different connector, BNC vs TNC The TNC connectors are in short supply due to demand Other antennas that are approved are" GA35W, GA56W, and GA56A The swap is pin-for-pin, except for with certain autopilots and EHSI systems Pigtail lengths for terminating shields at the receiver must be less then 3" Cable loss must be < 7db which requires replacement of RG-58 cable with RG400 or RG142 Bendix/King KFC225 and KAP140 required discrete outputs to capture the GPS glidepath The New WAAS boxes will not crossfill with older boxes Remote annunciation may be required if box is not in the pilot's field of view Field of view Horz: edge of the WAAS box < 13.8" from the center of the primary instruments Field of view Vert: edge of the WAAS box is no lower than the bottom of the primary instruments ERic-- RV-10, 40014 N104EP ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2007
From: Niko <owl40188(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Overhead Liner
Sure thing, I will post my findings when I get the material and play with i t.=0A=0ANiko=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Deems Davis <deems davis(at)cox.net>=0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, March 7, 20 07 11:14:26 AM=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: Overhead Liner=0A=0A=0A--> RV10-Li st message posted by: Deems Davis =0A=0ANiko, THANKS fo r the link, I'm very interested in what you find/learn as =0Athe finishing of the headliner around the cabin door openings and door =0Aposts is one of the (many) things I haven't got a solution to yet. I'd =0Aappreciate your posting what you find when you receive your material =0Asamples.=0A=0ADeems Davis # 406=0AFinishing - ( A Misnomer ! )=0Ahttp://deemsrv10.com/=0A=0ANi ko wrote:=0A> I haven't tested it. I am currently waiting for samples of a ll of =0A> their binding material. =0A> =0A> Niko=0A>=0A> --=0A> *=0A> * = ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Mar 07, 2007
Subject: Re: Dynon and MAC Servos
Dynon updatede the install manual for the trim indicators. you do NOT need a pot......I am not at the hanger but I have the info there as we c onnected both trim and aileron to these indicator on the D120. DEAN 40449 ________________________________________________________________________ FREE Reminder Service - NEW from AmericanGreetings.com Click HERE and never forget a Birthday or Anniversary again! http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=197335&u=http://www.americangreetings.c om/products/online_calendar.pd?c=uol5752
Dynon updatede the install manual for the trim indicators. ; you do NOT need a pot......I am not at the hanger but I have the info there as we connected both trim and aileron to these indicator on the D120.

DEAN 40449

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FREE Remin der Service - NEW from AmericanGreetings.com
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From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: More detail on Garmin 430/530 and WAAS
Date: Mar 07, 2007
See: http://www.lancasteravionics.com/waas.htm ERic-- RV-10, 40014 N104EP ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2007
Subject: More detail on Garmin 430/530 and WAAS
From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com>
Another one.=0A=0Ahttp://www.pennavionics.com/WAAS_UPGRADE.html=0A =0AI'm considering trading in my 1999 28 volt GNS-430 for a brand new GN S-430W with 2 year warranty for $2,995.- Just the upgrade would about $2, 000 anyhow.=0A=0AWilliam=0Ahttp://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ =0A=0A ----------------------------------------=0A X-Rcpt-To: http://www.lancasteravionics.com/waas.htm=0A=0AERic-- =0ARV-10, 40014=0AN104EP ________________________________________________________________________________
From: aj <ajhauter(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Is Chelton EFIS superior to G1000 and Avidyne?
Date: Mar 07, 2007
Found this to be an interesting read, anyone want to add any comments? http://philip.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg? msg_id=000tls&topic_id=21&topic=Aviation ________________________________________________________________________________
From: aj <ajhauter(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Is Chelton EFIS superior to G1000 and Avidyne?
Date: Mar 07, 2007
sorry, try this link instead, http://philip.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=000tls ajay On Mar 7, 2007, at 10:18 PM, aj wrote: > > Found this to be an interesting read, anyone want to add any > comments? > > http://philip.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg? > msg_id=000tls&topic_id=21&topic=Aviation ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: ShowPlanes Flaps
Date: Mar 07, 2007
I'm looking for pics and ideas on how folks have mounted the control box for the one-touch flap positioning system. Rob Wright Fuse #392 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Is Chelton EFIS superior to G1000 and Avidyne?
Date: Mar 08, 2007
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
AJ, Very interesting reading. It is clear that the Chelton EFIS is an amazing piece of software engineering. I believe some of the sales issues are related to the screen size. Heck, their market is 95% men. Size matters! All I would like is a bit more screen real estate for all that cash. I am no expert so allow me to elaborate further. Chelton's Specs & Technical webpage details the total size of the unit not the actual screen size. Wouldn't 3D Synthetic Vision, HITS, Moving Map, Terrain, Weather etc... all be more useful on a 7", 8", 9" or 10" display? We all appreciate how tight panels can get but IMHO with all the info available to the pilot larger screens would be a big plus for me. That being said they sure look tempting. Sounds like real pros like their function. Robin RV-6A 350 hours RV-10 Parts Dual 20" Dell monitors ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 08, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: ShowPlanes Flaps
Rob here's a couple of pics. http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2040%20Flap%20system/slides/DSC03045.html and http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2040%20Flap%20system/slides/DSC03047.html Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Rob Wright wrote: > > Im looking for pics and ideas on how folks have mounted the control > box for the one-touch flap positioning system. > > Rob Wright > > Fuse > > #392 > > *====================== > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com>
Subject: ShowPlanes Flaps
Date: Mar 08, 2007
Deems, I noticed on most of your pictures you use a lot of the zip ties with the stick on deals to secure them. Do you know how long those are supposed to stay attached? Are they an aviation product or a home depot thing? They seem so convenient but I just wonder if they will come loose over time? Obviously in the tunnel in these pictures they are accessible. Are you using them in other areas w/o access too? Don't take this the wrong way I am just asking out of my ignorance. I haven't learned much about wiring and proper installation yet. What do others think? Thanks, -Ben Westfall #40579 bottom skins PDX -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 4:14 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: ShowPlanes Flaps Rob here's a couple of pics. http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2040%20Flap%20system/slides/DSC03045.html and http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2040%20Flap%20system/slides/DSC03047.html Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Rob Wright wrote: > > I'm looking for pics and ideas on how folks have mounted the control > box for the one-touch flap positioning system. > > Rob Wright > > Fuse > > #392 > > *====================== > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 08, 2007
From: Dave Lammers <davelammers(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: ShowPlanes Flaps
Rob, Inside the tunnel, on the left side tunnel sidewall, adjacent to the actuator. Pix attached. Plenty of room there, and the wire runs are short. Requires quite a bundle of wires going back to the switch. I color coded them, twisted and routed them under the flap torque tube cover and up the sidewall to the switch and used a molex connector as a maintenance break (in case any components need to be replaced). Dave Lammers Wings Rob Wright wrote: > I'm looking for pics and ideas on how folks have mounted the control > box for the one-touch flap positioning system. > > > > Rob Wright > > Fuse > > #392 > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Text inserted by Panda Platinum 2005 Internet Security: > > This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited > mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: It is spam! > <http://127.0.0.1:6083/Panda?ID=pav_43852&SPAM=true> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: ShowPlanes Flaps
Date: Mar 08, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Dan Checkoway also reports using these and after a few months/year, they fall off, dry up whatever, so what I have done is to use the plates, and use a blob of RTV to seal them to the plane. So far no issues, but only time will tell. You can buy them at multiple places, and I got mine from Stein. RTV was purchased at the local auto store. Dan N289DT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 10:15 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: ShowPlanes Flaps Deems, I noticed on most of your pictures you use a lot of the zip ties with the stick on deals to secure them. Do you know how long those are supposed to stay attached? Are they an aviation product or a home depot thing? They seem so convenient but I just wonder if they will come loose over time? Obviously in the tunnel in these pictures they are accessible. Are you using them in other areas w/o access too? Don't take this the wrong way I am just asking out of my ignorance. I haven't learned much about wiring and proper installation yet. What do others think? Thanks, -Ben Westfall #40579 bottom skins PDX -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 4:14 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: ShowPlanes Flaps Rob here's a couple of pics. http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2040%20Flap%20system/slides/DSC03045.html and http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2040%20Flap%20system/slides/DSC03047.html Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Rob Wright wrote: > > I'm looking for pics and ideas on how folks have mounted the control > box for the one-touch flap positioning system. > > Rob Wright > > Fuse > > #392 > > *====================== > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 08, 2007
From: Dave Lammers <davelammers(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: ShowPlanes Flaps
I used these stick-on types on my RV6 which first flew in 2000. Over these years and 700 hours, about one-third of them have loosened or come off completely. Because of this experience, I am NOT using any in my RV-10, but using the ones with the holes in them and screwing or riveting them on. For sure, no matter how well you clean and glue them on, do not use the stick on kind in applications where, in the event of them coming loose, the wire bundle could interfere with critical control movement. Dave Lammers Pitts-flying RV6- flying RV10-wings Lloyd, Daniel R. wrote: > >Dan Checkoway also reports using these and after a few months/year, they >fall off, dry up whatever, so what I have done is to use the plates, and >use a blob of RTV to seal them to the plane. So far no issues, but only >time will tell. >You can buy them at multiple places, and I got mine from Stein. RTV was >purchased at the local auto store. >Dan >N289DT > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall >Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 10:15 AM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV10-List: ShowPlanes Flaps > > >Deems, > >I noticed on most of your pictures you use a lot of the zip ties with >the >stick on deals to secure them. Do you know how long those are supposed >to >stay attached? Are they an aviation product or a home depot thing? >They >seem so convenient but I just wonder if they will come loose over time? > >Obviously in the tunnel in these pictures they are accessible. Are you >using them in other areas w/o access too? Don't take this the wrong way >I >am just asking out of my ignorance. I haven't learned much about wiring >and >proper installation yet. > >What do others think? > >Thanks, > >-Ben Westfall >#40579 bottom skins >PDX > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis >Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 4:14 AM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: ShowPlanes Flaps > > >Rob here's a couple of pics. > >http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2040%20Flap%20system/slides/DSC03045.html > >and > >http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2040%20Flap%20system/slides/DSC03047.html > >Deems Davis # 406 >Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) >http://deemsrv10.com/ > >Rob Wright wrote: > > >>I'm looking for pics and ideas on how folks have mounted the control >>box for the one-touch flap positioning system. >> >>Rob Wright >> >>Fuse >> >>#392 >> >>*====================== >> >>* >> >> > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Text inserted by Panda Platinum 2005 Internet Security: > > This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://127.0.0.1:6083/Panda?ID=pav_43878&SPAM=true >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: ShowPlanes Flaps
Date: Mar 08, 2007
From: "Bobby J. Hughes" <bhughes(at)qnsi.net>
I keep a jar of these things soaking in acetone until needed. The acetone allow you to remove the sticky pad. Rough up the back and apply with Shoe-Goo from the local sporting good store on a clean surface. Install a temporary zip tie while the Goo is drying to keep it our of the holes. Allow 24 hours to dry. Bobby 40116 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R. Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 10:22 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: ShowPlanes Flaps --> Dan Checkoway also reports using these and after a few months/year, they fall off, dry up whatever, so what I have done is to use the plates, and use a blob of RTV to seal them to the plane. So far no issues, but only time will tell. You can buy them at multiple places, and I got mine from Stein. RTV was purchased at the local auto store. Dan N289DT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 10:15 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: ShowPlanes Flaps Deems, I noticed on most of your pictures you use a lot of the zip ties with the stick on deals to secure them. Do you know how long those are supposed to stay attached? Are they an aviation product or a home depot thing? They seem so convenient but I just wonder if they will come loose over time? Obviously in the tunnel in these pictures they are accessible. Are you using them in other areas w/o access too? Don't take this the wrong way I am just asking out of my ignorance. I haven't learned much about wiring and proper installation yet. What do others think? Thanks, -Ben Westfall #40579 bottom skins PDX -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 4:14 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: ShowPlanes Flaps Rob here's a couple of pics. http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2040%20Flap%20system/slides/DSC03045.html and http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2040%20Flap%20system/slides/DSC03047.html Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Rob Wright wrote: > > I'm looking for pics and ideas on how folks have mounted the control > box for the one-touch flap positioning system. > > Rob Wright > > Fuse > > #392 > > *====================== > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: ShowPlanes Flaps
Date: Mar 08, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Ben, we are using Click Bond fasteners with great results at adhesion. A clean and abraded surface is a logical process. I will get you a couple of samples from work and bring them to the NW RV-10 dinner in May. I will also bring a demo of 3M DP-100 two part catalytic adhesive which is superior to any product yet mentioned. Unfortunately with a quality build, it requires a 3M gun, plunger and nozzles. Dan has documented well the difficulties of long term adhesion bonding with these common sticky back standoffs and his wire runs. The other issue is lower quality fasteners and electric tie will indeed harden and snap from vibration in short order. A prudent builder will have a plan for long term service down the road. Otherwise chafing of wire bundles will create their telltale mark on both the aluminum and on the wire bundle. Pulling replacement wire is not worth the discussion when this natural occurrence takes it's toll. Plan accordingly for longevity and ease of service. Tim has a pdf file on wire found in old airplanes that I sent the RV-10 University. John Cox #40600 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 7:15 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: ShowPlanes Flaps Deems, I noticed on most of your pictures you use a lot of the zip ties with the stick on deals to secure them. Do you know how long those are supposed to stay attached? Are they an aviation product or a home depot thing? They seem so convenient but I just wonder if they will come loose over time? Obviously in the tunnel in these pictures they are accessible. Are you using them in other areas w/o access too? Don't take this the wrong way I am just asking out of my ignorance. I haven't learned much about wiring and proper installation yet. What do others think? Thanks, -Ben Westfall #40579 bottom skins PDX -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 4:14 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: ShowPlanes Flaps Rob here's a couple of pics. http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2040%20Flap%20system/slides/DSC03045.html and http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2040%20Flap%20system/slides/DSC03047.html Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Rob Wright wrote: > > I'm looking for pics and ideas on how folks have mounted the control > box for the one-touch flap positioning system. > > Rob Wright > > Fuse > > #392 > > *====================== > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: ShowPlanes Flaps
Date: Mar 08, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Sorry I forgot to attach the link. http://www.clickbond.com/index.php John Cox #40600 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 7:15 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: ShowPlanes Flaps What do others think? Thanks, -Ben Westfall #40579 bottom skins PDX ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 08, 2007
From: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu>
Subject: Re: PIPREP at 34 Hours
A bit more info on the sheared screw issue. The following came from TruTrak. It seems like a reasonable compromise to me. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Shear Screws Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 07:50:30 -0600 From: John Wyatt <john(at)trutrakap.com> Tim, The shear screw is designed so that it should not shear until a static torque of about75 in-lbs is applied to the servo. The servos that the RV-10 uses should only be capable of outputting 35-40 in-lbs of torque. The reason that the screw likely failed is because an impulse was likely applied to the system. This could have been the result of an aggressive maneuver. The easy solution to this situation is to not hand fly the aircraft with the autopilot engaged unless an emergency is present. All of our autopilots have control wheel steering so that a push button can be mounted on the stick to disengage the entire autopilot without the need to move a hand from the stick to disengage the system. The shear screw is in place to provide protection should one of the servos lock the flight controls. If the amount of force required to override the shear screw was too great, the result would be one less layer of protection in place should the servo lock completely. Again, the best practice is to not attempt to hand fly the airplane while the autopilot is engaged. If you have any further questions please feel free to contact me. Thanks, Zach -- Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) RV-6A N47TD -- 850 hrs RV-10 #40059 under construction Tim Lewis wrote: > > I suspect this (pilot override leads to sheared servo screws) is not > how the system is supposed to operate. According to TruTrak's > Digiflight II operator's manual: > > "... use the encoder knob to select the desired value of roll servo > torque. This value should be between 7 and 12. ... The value chosen > should be sufficient to fly the aircraft, but not so much that it is > difficult to override the autopilot if necessary." > According to TruTrak's FAQ: > > "What if a servo jams? The chances of a servo jamming are very slim, > however if a servo did happen to jam, there are shear screws on every > servo that allow a breakaway of the servo arm." > > It appears that the servo torque is intended to be adjusted so that > the pilot can override the servo (without shearing the screws). If > the TruTrak is really designed to shear screws (hence disabling the > system) if the pilot tries to override the servo, I don't think I'd > care to buy a TruTrak autopilot. Even my elderly Navaid responds more > gracefully than that. > > Tim > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 08, 2007
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>
Subject: Sun and Fun Logistics
Bill; I have a son who goes to Texas Tech and have flown out once to KLBB. Lubbock International. Left my plane there with the nice folks at Lubbock Aero. Looks like they have courtesy cars. Nice facility. I'd recommend stopping there. Not much else there in the way of smaller airports. Fred Williams Paris, TX. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted French" <ted_french(at)telus.net>
Subject: Headroom in the RV-10
Date: Mar 08, 2007
Today I taxied my 10 for the first time to do the compass swing. I found the headroom was almost non-existant. Has this been a problem for anyone else, and if so, what have you done to correct it. The only thing that comes to mind is to cut the seat cushion down a bit to sit lower in the seat. That obviously means less cushioning on the butt which may or may not be an issue on a long trip. Apart from that, I must say that the I0-540 with the MT prop is an awsome combination for smoothness. Ted French C-FXCS reserved Taxiing ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Headroom in the RV-10
Date: Mar 08, 2007
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
I am 6'1" and I have plenty of headroom. The trick is to lay the seat back about 2 notches. That gets my head in the head relief. If I have the seat strait up I hit my head as well. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted French Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 3:38 PM Subject: RV10-List: Headroom in the RV-10 Today I taxied my 10 for the first time to do the compass swing. I found the headroom was almost non-existant. Has this been a problem for anyone else, and if so, what have you done to correct it. The only thing that comes to mind is to cut the seat cushion down a bit to sit lower in the seat. That obviously means less cushioning on the butt which may or may not be an issue on a long trip. Apart from that, I must say that the I0-540 with the MT prop is an awsome combination for smoothness. Ted French C-FXCS reserved Taxiing ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Aircraft Extras FPS plus
Date: Mar 08, 2007
From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
Hey all - on the subject of flap positioning units, I was looking at the aircraft extras FPS plus, and wondered if more experienced pilots could weigh in for me. From what I understand, this system allows you to set trim positions for each flap position, so that when you put the flaps down, the trim automatically goes to where you want it. so far I get this... but the explanation on the website says that with the system, when you put the flaps down, the plane just slows down, without the nose pitching down. now, I realize that I've only flown cessnas and Cherokees, but when I put the flaps down, the nose wants to come up. Then it goes down... I think... if the system adds elevator trim (up) when you put the flaps down, won't you be fighting the stick excessively for a few seconds? Or am I a chucklehead? You can tell me - I won't be mad :) The website states that with the system you don't have to fight stick pressures in landing and takeoff phases of flight due to the automatic trim compensation. What say you all? cj #40410 dangerously close to starting the finish kit... www.perfectlygoodairplane.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Headroom in the RV-10
Date: Mar 08, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Ted - totally baffled. 6'3" no problem, wearing hat as well and lots of elbow room to boot. John Cox #40600 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted French Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 3:38 PM Subject: RV10-List: Headroom in the RV-10 Today I taxied my 10 for the first time to do the compass swing. I found the headroom was almost non-existant. Has this been a problem for anyone else, and if so, what have you done to correct it. The only thing that comes to mind is to cut the seat cushion down a bit to sit lower in the seat. That obviously means less cushioning on the butt which may or may not be an issue on a long trip. Apart from that, I must say that the I0-540 with the MT prop is an awsome combination for smoothness. Ted French C-FXCS reserved Taxiing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Grimstad" <bldgrv10450(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Sun & Fun
Date: Mar 08, 2007
Sun & Fun anyone? Lisa and I will be there on the 17th & 18th and would love to meet some other RV builders. We are wondering who else may be planning to show up, and what others think of an informal meeting time or place. Bill is flying from California and we are wondering who else is planning to fly in with an RV10. Cheers all, Looking forward to the Fun in the Sun. Paul Grimstad RV10 40450 fuselage Portland, OR 97219 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sun & Fun
Date: Mar 09, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
I'll be there on the 17th and 18th as well, flying my 1929 Pietenpol Air Camper (because the RV-10 is still in the "Empennage Kit" stage). Would like to see some flying RV-10's and meet the builders. Should we meet at the Van's booth? Jack Phillips #40610 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Grimstad Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 1:46 AM Subject: RV10-List: Sun & Fun Sun & Fun anyone? Lisa and I will be there on the 17th & 18th and would love to meet some other RV builders. We are wondering who else may be planning to show up, and what others think of an informal meeting time or place. Bill is flying from California and we are wondering who else is planning to fly in with an RV10. Cheers all, Looking forward to the Fun in the Sun. Paul Grimstad RV10 40450 fuselage Portland, OR 97219 _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sun & Fun
From: "Jim & Julie Wade" <jwade(at)msdeltawireless.com>
Date: Mar 09, 2007
We will be there in out RV-10, probably during the weekend. Weather permitting. We will be in the Homebuilt camping area. Jim & Julie Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99603#99603 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 09, 2007
From: CHRISTOPHER HARRIS <cbpip(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Static load test
I came across an interesting picture of a test required by the danish government when buiding your own plane. It shows the builder demonstrating a 3+ g static load to an RV-10, good thing this isn't required in the U.S. it seems like alot of scary work. Go to www.rv10.dk/rv10/rv/defaulte.htm click on wings to the right then loadtest for the pictures if interested. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Sun
Date: Mar 09, 2007
The best places to stop for gas, near Lubbock / Midland is either Plainview KPVW (self service) or Snyder KSNK (full service). Can't speak for accommodations at either place. Lubbock Aero (KLBB) is a great FBO but their gas prices are really high. If you stop in Lubbock overnight give me a call (806) 535-1019 and I will try and help all I can, unless prior commitments keep me from it. Russ Daves N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Robinson" <jesse@a-e-r-o.com>
Subject: O540-B4B5 Engine for sale
Date: Mar 09, 2007
My brother has an O540B4B5 engine he wants to sell that was overhauled several years ago. He had yellow tags for everything except the case so he took it apart and had the case inspected at western skyways. The engine is disassembled and is ready to put back together. He worked at Western Skyways for several years so he is familiar with engines and parts. You can contact Joe direct if you have any questions at 970-874-7575. Thanks for your help! Jesse Robinson A.E.R.O. Inc. Granite city, Il 1-800-362-3044 ext 228 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aircraft Extras FPS plus
From: "Miles Bowen" <cessna170bdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 09, 2007
cj, Different airplanes respond differently to flap deployment, but I'm not aware of one that pitches up, then down on its own. My 170 pitches up with flap deployment, then I have to trim down. Cherokees I've flown pitch down with flap deployment and I have to trim up. I have very little RV time, but I think most of them pitch down with flaps, thus the up trim to compensate. Sounds like the automatic trim system would be good once you had it dialed in to your airplane's characteristics. Miles HRII, Tanks RV-10 Looky-Loo -------- Miles 1955 C170B HRII Plans#211 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99641#99641 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 09, 2007
From: Niko <owl40188(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Aircraft Extras FPS plus
My experience is that at initial flap deployment usually you get extra lift and a pitch up. As the speed bleeds off due to the extra drag it results in a pitch down. Typically when initially activating flaps I put in a slig ht nose down input to counteract the effect. This only lasts a few seconds . Following this I use up trim to get the right speed and glidepath.=0A=0A Niko=0A40188=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Miles Bowen <cessn a170bdriver(at)yahoo.com>=0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, March 9, 2007 10:51:46 AM=0ASubject: RV10-List: Re: Aircraft Extras FPS plus=0A o.com>=0A=0Acj,=0A=0ADifferent airplanes respond differently to flap deploy ment, but I'm not aware of one that pitches up, then down on its own. My 17 0 pitches up with flap deployment, then I have to trim down. Cherokees I've flown pitch down with flap deployment and I have to trim up. I have very l ittle RV time, but I think most of them pitch down with flaps, thus the up trim to compensate. Sounds like the automatic trim system would be good onc e you had it dialed in to your airplane's characteristics.=0A=0AMiles=0A=0A HRII, Tanks=0ARV-10 Looky-Loo=0A=0A--------=0AMiles=0A1955 C170B=0AHRII Pla ns#211=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matron ================= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "KiloPapa" <kilopapa(at)antelecom.net>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?3MT_Scotch-WeldT_Epoxy_Adhesive_DP100_Plus_Clear_info?
Date: Mar 09, 2007
FYI - Data sheet on the 3MT Scotch-WeldT Epoxy Adhesive DP100 Plus Clear mentioned below. http://www.bindingsource.com/pdf/DP-100%20plus%20specs.pdf Kevin 40494 tail/empennage > > Ben, we are using Click Bond fasteners with great results at adhesion. > A clean and abraded surface is a logical process. I will get you a > couple of samples from work and bring them to the NW RV-10 dinner in > May. > (snipped) > I will also bring a demo of 3M DP-100 two part catalytic adhesive which > is superior to any product yet mentioned. Unfortunately with a quality > build, it requires a 3M gun, plunger and nozzles. > John Cox > #40600 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Repairman Cert overseas
Date: Mar 09, 2007
Does anybody know the regs in Europe if someone from here with a US registered plane and a Repairman Certificate goes to Europe for a period of time and need an inspection, can the Owner/Builder do his own annual and sign it off while overseas? Thanks. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Reining" <wreining(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Avery's Rudder Cable Fairings: Installation on Tailcone
Date: Mar 09, 2007
Do we need to wait to attach these fairings until after the rudder cable is inserted? I don't know how large the end of the cable is. I'd just as soon rivet the fairings on now, before we attach the skins. Reading the archives, I see where some folks have installed nut plates - that would obviously avoid the issue. But still, why not just rivet them on now, if the cable will pass through later? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks. Bill (and Jon) Reining 40514 tailcone ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net>
Subject: Avery's Rudder Cable Fairings: Installation on Tailcone
Date: Mar 09, 2007
The rudder cables will not go through with them riveted on. Don't ask me how I know. Bob K Fiberglass and panel _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Reining Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 5:17 PM Subject: RV10-List: Avery's Rudder Cable Fairings: Installation on Tailcone Do we need to wait to attach these fairings until after the rudder cable is inserted? I don't know how large the end of the cable is. I'd just as soon rivet the fairings on now, before we attach the skins. Reading the archives, I see where some folks have installed nut plates - that would obviously avoid the issue. But still, why not just rivet them on now, if the cable will pass through later? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks. Bill (and Jon) Reining 40514 tailcone ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Avery's Rudder Cable Fairings: Installation on Tailcone
Date: Mar 09, 2007
It depends on how far back you put them. If you put them a little forward of the rear of the hole, you can still get them in. I don't know that they help any on drag, but they look good. You want to have the tube that is on the cable sticking out far enough so the cable doesn't touch metal when it moves (there was a plane at OSH this year that has a good groove cut in the skin from the cable rubbing). It is better to install it with nutplates for a good tight fit, but if you rivet it you can fill around it and the edge will disappear. Just leave it far enough forward that you can get the cable through, is my suggestion. Again, it is for looks more than anything, IMHO. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob.kaufmann Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 8:45 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Avery's Rudder Cable Fairings: Installation on Tailcone The rudder cables will not go through with them riveted on. Don't ask me how I know. Bob K Fiberglass and panel _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Reining Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 5:17 PM Subject: RV10-List: Avery's Rudder Cable Fairings: Installation on Tailcone Do we need to wait to attach these fairings until after the rudder cable is inserted? I don't know how large the end of the cable is. I'd just as soon rivet the fairings on now, before we attach the skins. Reading the archives, I see where some folks have installed nut plates - that would obviously avoid the issue. But still, why not just rivet them on now, if the cable will pass through later? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks. Bill (and Jon) Reining 40514 tailcone ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 09, 2007
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Avery's Rudder Cable Fairings: Installation on Tailcone
Bill & Jon, The rudder cables will not pass through after they are riveted, do what most of us have done and use nutplates to hold them on. No need to ask me how I know, did it from the start. Rick S. 40185 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: NPRM Process
Date: Mar 11, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
I don't know how many of you will even be interested in the 51% Rule Making process, but given the AOPA's response on Docket No. FAA-2006-26408 dealing with Repair Stations you will likely get the information a week late after it is a resolved policy. Note: Last day to respond to the NPRM - March 1, 2007 (date of AOPA attaching it to their weekly newsletter - March 9th). The members met in secret session last week. Notes of the meetings are closed to the aviation public. It has been internally and commonly discussed that few kit-builders have seen fit to give their perceptions and their recommended solutions to those ARC guys. Hope you are all happy with the outcome. I think this process is BAA.. Baa, baa... Bad as I head to get my winter coat sheared for market. I am confident future User Fees and significantly increased insurance costs will get your attention down the road. John Cox #40600 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 11, 2007
Subject: NPRM Process
From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com>
>>The members met in secret session last week. Notes of the meetings are closed to the aviation public. - =0A=0AIt should always be a concer n in a free society when any "public" body meets in "secret sessions" about matters that will affect the public.- I for one don't think anything was broken with the 51% rule so why are folks tinkering with it trying to "fix " it.- While it is not perfect, any tinkering by the government and speci al interest parties will just create a bureaucracy of additional paperwork benefiting the few and annoying the many.=0A=0AWilliam=0Ahttp://wc urtis.nerv10.com/ =0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 11, 2007
From: "ivo welch" <ivowel(at)gmail.com>
Subject: RV-10 for sale
Dear RV-10 builders: I have a professionally built RV-10 for sale, and have lowered the price to $199,000. Given what I have put in, from leather interior to avionics, it is probably impossible (or at least very hard) to build an equivalent RV-10 at this price. (And presumably, waiting two years and spending hundreds of hours of time also matters.) More details can be found at http://welch.econ.brown.edu/n325hp/ . If you know of someone interested to purchase a built RV-10, please point this person there. regards, /iaw ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Mar 11, 2007
Subject: Re: RV-10 for sale
Why are we preaching to the choir? Dean 40449 ________________________________________________________________________ Interested in getting caught up on today's news? Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines. http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/f ront.htm?csp=24
Why are we preaching to the choir?

Dean 40449

______________________ __________________________________________________
Interested in getting caught up on today's news?
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From: Dsyvert(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 11, 2007
Subject: Elevator E-913 dimpling
Can anyone point me to what get dimpled on E-913? This is the band that goes over the end ribs of the elevator. I just can't seem to find it on the plans other than what is shown on the skins. Thanks Dave Syvertson 40625

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From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Elevator E-913 dimpling
Date: Mar 11, 2007
One way of figuring it out is that on page 9-10, step 3, you see that the rivets called out are 426. This tells you that where these are used you should dimple. Another way is that on page 9-9, step 5, it says to dimple the top and bottom flanges of the 903 and 904 tip ribs for the skin dimples, which means you have to have some dimples on the 913 to fit into those. It certainly isn't all that clear, I must admit. John Jessen 40328 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dsyvert(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 10:49 AM Subject: RV10-List: Elevator E-913 dimpling Can anyone point me to what get dimpled on E-913? This is the band that goes over the end ribs of the elevator. I just can't seem to find it on the plans other than what is shown on the skins. Thanks Dave Syvertson 40625 _____ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000339> AOL.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dsyvert(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 11, 2007
Subject: Re: Elevator E-913 dimpling
Thanks, I just wanted a 2nd

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Subject: Tailcone question
From: Michael D Chase <MChase(at)gdatp.com>
Date: Mar 12, 2007
OK so here I am back with questions about the tail cone and that darn F-1032 Longerion? Anyway I think I am past the point of breaking them, but how about alignment with the skin. I see in the instructions that they want me us to line up the edges, did anyone else have an issue or have to work at this? Looking at a bunch of websites I don't see anyone who even talks about this effort. I am trying to figure out if I messed up my bend or if it is just because it was so cold in my shop when I tried to line everything up. I question more then the bend just because my alignment issues were not just limited to near the bend, but also existing forward of the bend with good alignment the first 1-2 feet then 1 foot off then back on just before the bend ect. This may be just the cold contributing to my issues as it was -28F that AM, I am definitely in the market for a small wood stove before next winter:-) thanks for the help Michael Chase General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products 802-657-6029 Office 802-922-5930 Cell mchase(at)gdatp.com This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is private, confidential, or exempt from disclosure. Any unauthorized review, use, copying, printing, disclosure, retention, or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply to this e-mail, and delete all copies without disclosing this message to others. Thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Tailcone question
Date: Mar 12, 2007
Michael, some pictures would help. If you looked at my website, and my discussion of the process, I didn't have alignment problems, but only because I snuck up on the final bend. You also have to be a little careful not to put a twist into it, so when you whack it, you really want the pressure you're putting on it to be in the final bend direction. Anyway, send some pictures of what the alignment problem is. And get some heat! John Jessen #40328 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael D Chase Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 7:33 AM Subject: RV10-List: Tailcone question OK so here I am back with questions about the tail cone and that darn F-1032 Longerion? Anyway I think I am past the point of breaking them, but how about alignment with the skin. I see in the instructions that they want me us to line up the edges, did anyone else have an issue or have to work at this? Looking at a bunch of websites I don't see anyone who even talks about this effort. I am trying to figure out if I messed up my bend or if it is just because it was so cold in my shop when I tried to line everything up. I question more then the bend just because my alignment issues were not just limited to near the bend, but also existing forward of the bend with good alignment the first 1-2 feet then 1 foot off then back on just before the bend ect. This may be just the cold contributing to my issues as it was -28F that AM, I am definitely in the market for a small wood stove before next winter:-) thanks for the help Michael Chase General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products 802-657-6029 Office 802-922-5930 Cell mchase(at)gdatp.com This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is private, confidential, or exempt from disclosure. Any unauthorized review, use, copying, printing, disclosure, retention, or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply to this e-mail, and delete all copies without disclosing this message to others. Thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Lycoming's New Web Site
Date: Mar 12, 2007
Check out Lycoming's new web site! http://www.lycoming.com/ ERic-- RV-10, 40014 N104EP ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Professional Build Assist or Build to Order
Date: Mar 12, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Let me go on record that ever since (actually before) biblical times, women began providing services to men "outside of marriage" and the word "professional " has been bastardized for the monetary benefit of the few. We now have people claiming "Professional Build". Offering to build or sell you "Professionally Built Aircraft". "Choose which flavor of the month we can offer which will motivate you to pay us money for our services - We will provide you that service - We promise". A profession should be a group of people following a line of conduct as though it was Professional, or a calling requiring Specialized Knowledge and training often long and Intensive Academic Preparation, or engaged in one of the learned professions such a my doctors, lawyer, accountant, structural engineer, architect and real estate broker or better yet "conforming to ethically standards of a profession". I am all for a method to establish who is a professional builder out their. Are You? Do we want a Professional Build Program? Do we quietly look the other way while the working guys and gals claim "professional" and take the money and run. There are few builders who could meet such a definition, Dave Saylor may just be one who by his body of work, ethic and training might establish a benchmark. He is the only voice we have in the sea of manufacturers trying to sell more product and make more dollars for themselves who also serves our interest on the ARC. Builders who ethically manipulate the 51% rule to "Build to Order" are not such Professionals they are prostitutes (IMHO). The result of such work may (I think - Will) lead to statistically adulterated insurance rates for the individual OBAM aircraft which have benefited by the 51% directive. It should come as no surprise with the increased sophistication of our aircraft systems that someone building them (Us RV-10 builders) needed training, academic preparation and some modicum of ethics. Paying for IT, does not make it Professional, it makes it a bastardized product. Before I answer Paul's request for clarification on what I think of the ARC, I thought I would clear the air before wasting more bandwidth. We are about to get what we deserve from the 51% Committee, I would like to think that as a group, we would like to see the private individuals who build, continue to do so and prosper. I hold a lot of respect for Real Builders. I would like to think we all would be willing to contribute to helping increase the margin of safety with our product. To use that redneck media guy's tagline from the "Fair and Balanced Network" - "What say You?" Here is a teaser as to where I am going, Paul. Builder's who build should be allowed to continue to modify, maintain and inspection for the confirmation of continued safe operation their own personally registered and personally built aircraft - not that of any others. Certainly not "Build to Order". Builder's who sell, loose that specific Repairman Certificate upon the Sale, but they retain the right to sell it and to continue to build future OBAM. When individual's who did not build it buy it, they would have to get a professionally qualified A & P mechanic with current IA endorsement to complete the inspection for continued safe operation and for the protection of the General Public - oh yeh, and they cannot maintain it either cause they are not of sufficient knowledge and training. We do not need increased insurance rates. We do not need more restrictive regulations. We need more and higher ethics in the Build process. We need to support guys like Tim Olson and the sharing of information to improve our own group, from within. I will be nominating Tim Olson for the EAA Homebuilders Hall of Fame for 2007 and wanted to announce it right here (for his selfless generosity, tireless efforts and investment in time and the sharing of knowledge for safer OBAM aircraft and the safe growth of our remarkable group) and I am declaring it right now. Get back to Work. John Cox #40600 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 12, 2007
Subject: Re: Lycoming's New Web Site
In a message dated 3/12/2007 12:40:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ericparlow(at)hotmail.com writes: http://www.lycoming.com/ Nice pix of Matt Chapman...a member of our EAA chapter member... _www.eaa240.org_ (http://www.eaa240.org) ...on your opening page. Patrick

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From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Mar 12, 2007
Subject: Re: Professional Build Assist or Build to Order
I was going to nominate TIM Olson for a NOBEL prize to compete with Al G ore and Rush Limbaugh instead of a lowly Hall of Fame nominee. He is de serving of the honor..............BTW he did make the Axle extenders ava ilable to countries overseas as well as Canada and Mexico. He is truly an INTERNATIONAL Peace maker! Dean 40449 ________________________________________________________________________ Interested in getting caught up on today's news? Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines. http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/f ront.htm?csp=24
I was going to nominate TIM Olson for a NOBEL prize to compete with Al Gore and Rush Limbaugh instead of a lowly Hall of Fame nominee.& nbsp; He is deserving of the honor..............BTW he did make the Axle extenders available to countries overseas as well as Canada and Mexico. He is truly an INTERNATIONAL Peace maker!

Dean 40449

______________________ __________________________________________________
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From: "Jae Chang" <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com>
Date: Mar 12, 2007
Subject: Rear window/Access panel?
Funny, I just noticed that the RV demonstrator N410RV has an access panel in the rear/top of the canopy. Does anyone else have this, or know what it is for? Mini-moonroof? http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/Rv10/06_11/ground/135.jpg http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/VansRV10pics/inside3.html Jae ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rear window/Access panel?
Date: Mar 12, 2007
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Early version of a Vent. Abandoned for the side vents. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jae Chang Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 12:41 PM Subject: RV10-List: Rear window/Access panel? Funny, I just noticed that the RV demonstrator N410RV has an access panel in the rear/top of the canopy. Does anyone else have this, or know what it is for? Mini-moonroof? http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/Rv10/06_11/ground/135.jpg http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/VansRV10pics/inside3.html Jae ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 12, 2007
From: "Mike Lauritsen - Work" <mike(at)cleavelandtool.com>
Subject: Used Cylinders
Anybody have an idea what to do with the used cylinders off of my IO540? Replaced them all when rebuilt now they are sitting around. 5 of the 6 are within new limits. Has anyone sold theirs? What are they worth? Thanks, Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Professional Build Assist or Build to Order
Date: Mar 12, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Al Gore, Michael Moore, Franken, Limbaugh, King and O'Reilly... oh, lord, what have I started. John Cox #40600 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ddddsp1(at)juno.com Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 12:23 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Professional Build Assist or Build to Order I was going to nominate TIM Olson for a NOBEL prize to compete with Al Gore and Rush Limbaugh instead of a lowly Hall of Fame nominee. He is deserving of the honor..............BTW he did make the Axle extenders available to countries overseas as well as Canada and Mexico. He is truly an INTERNATIONAL Peace maker! Dean 40449 ________________________________________________________________________ Interested in getting caught up on today's news? Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines. <http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/f ron t.htm?csp=24> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Subject: Used Cylinders
Date: Mar 12, 2007
What color paint is on barrel or is it gone? Randy -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Lauritsen - Work" <mike(at)cleavelandtool.com> Sent: 3/12/2007 1:21 PM Subject: RV10-List: Used Cylinders Anybody have an idea what to do with the used cylinders off of my IO540? Replaced them all when rebuilt now they are sitting around. 5 of the 6 are within new limits. Has anyone sold theirs? What are they worth? Thanks, Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rear window/Access panel?
Date: Mar 12, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Certification of an OBAM kit built required spin testing for use with the IO-540D4A5. Put another engine in and Ken Scott would recommend you have one with a ballistic chute and Mini-moonroof, as well to confirm lack of flutter and to establish demonstrated VNe. On a side note, Columbia lost their demo when It would not recover in spin. The chute fouled and the demo pilot bailed. That prototype was replaced. Have your ducks in a row when changing powerplants. Read Kitplanes - April 2007 pages 30-33. John Cox -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jae Chang Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 12:41 PM Subject: RV10-List: Rear window/Access panel? Funny, I just noticed that the RV demonstrator N410RV has an access panel in the rear/top of the canopy. Does anyone else have this, or know what it is for? Mini-moonroof? http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/Rv10/06_11/ground/135.jpg http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/VansRV10pics/inside3.html Jae ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 12, 2007
From: "Mike Lauritsen - Work" <mike(at)cleavelandtool.com>
Subject: Re: Used Cylinders
Also I just listed two rebuilt cylinders on ebay that are .010" over if anyone is interested. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220091679155 On 3/12/07, Mike Lauritsen - Work wrote: > > Anybody have an idea what to do with the used cylinders off of my IO540? > Replaced them all when rebuilt now they are sitting around. 5 of the 6 are > within new limits. Has anyone sold theirs? What are they worth? > > Thanks, > Mike > > * > > > * > > -- Mike Lauritsen Cleaveland Aircraft Tool 515-432-6794 www.cleavelandtool.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 12, 2007
From: "Mike Lauritsen - Work" <mike(at)cleavelandtool.com>
Subject: Re: Used Cylinders
They are grey. On 3/12/07, Randy DeBauw wrote: > > > What color paint is on barrel or is it gone? Randy > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Lauritsen - Work" <mike(at)cleavelandtool.com> > To: "rv10-list(at)matronics.com" > Sent: 3/12/2007 1:21 PM > Subject: RV10-List: Used Cylinders > > Anybody have an idea what to do with the used cylinders off of my IO540? > Replaced them all when rebuilt now they are sitting around. 5 of the 6 > are > within new limits. Has anyone sold theirs? What are they worth? > > Thanks, > Mike > > -- Mike Lauritsen Cleaveland Aircraft Tool 515-432-6794 www.cleavelandtool.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com>
Subject: Professional Build Assist or Build to Order
Date: Mar 12, 2007
I think he is really sweet on Ann Coulter. >From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: RV10-List: Professional Build Assist or Build to Order >Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 13:37:10 -0700 > >Al Gore, Michael Moore, Franken, Limbaugh, King and O'Reilly... oh, >lord, what have I started. > > >John Cox >#40600 > >________________________________ > >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of >ddddsp1(at)juno.com >Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 12:23 PM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Professional Build Assist or Build to Order > > >I was going to nominate TIM Olson for a NOBEL prize to compete with Al >Gore and Rush Limbaugh instead of a lowly Hall of Fame nominee. He is >deserving of the honor..............BTW he did make the Axle extenders >available to countries overseas as well as Canada and Mexico. He is >truly an INTERNATIONAL Peace maker! > >Dean 40449 > > >________________________________________________________________________ >Interested in getting caught up on today's news? >Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines. ><http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/fron >t.htm?csp=24> > > _________________________________________________________________ Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - Refinance $150,000 loan for $579 a month. Intro*Terms https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f6&disc=y&vers=743&s=4056&p=5117 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Subject: Used Cylinders
Date: Mar 12, 2007
I will look them up. -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Lauritsen - Work" <mike(at)cleavelandtool.com> Sent: 3/12/2007 2:08 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Used Cylinders They are grey. On 3/12/07, Randy DeBauw wrote: > > > What color paint is on barrel or is it gone? Randy > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Lauritsen - Work" <mike(at)cleavelandtool.com> > To: "rv10-list(at)matronics.com" > Sent: 3/12/2007 1:21 PM > Subject: RV10-List: Used Cylinders > > Anybody have an idea what to do with the used cylinders off of my IO540? > Replaced them all when rebuilt now they are sitting around. 5 of the 6 > are > within new limits. Has anyone sold theirs? What are they worth? > > Thanks, > Mike > > -- Mike Lauritsen Cleaveland Aircraft Tool 515-432-6794 www.cleavelandtool.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)cox.net>
Subject: Tim Olso for Hall of Fame
Date: Mar 13, 2007
I will be nominating Tim Olson for the EAA Homebuilders Hall of Fame for 2007 and wanted to announce it right here (for his selfless generosity, tireless efforts and investment in time and the sharing of knowledge for safer OBAM aircraft and the safe growth of our remarkable group) and I am declaring it right now. Get back to Work. John Cox #40600 Being an attorney and sometimes being called a professional, I will leave John's rant about professionals alone. However I do want to say that I would certainly second his motion regarding Tim. While I have no doubt that I could have finished N710RV and got it flying without Tim's help it wouldn't have occurred in 33 months and probably would not have turned out as good. Russ Daves N710RV- First Flight 7/28/06 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)cox.net>
Subject: Tim Olson Nomination
Date: Mar 13, 2007
Al Gore, Michael Moore, Franken, Limbaugh, King and O'Reilly... oh, lord, what have I started. John Cox #40600 Just so I am on the record, Tim does not deserve to be put into the same group as above. He is lots better than that. Russ Daves N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Which certified comes closest to the RV-10?Which certified
comes closest to the RV-10?
Date: Mar 13, 2007
You are going to love the RV-10 and have a 40 year + newer airplane to boot for less than the cost of the J-35 and upgrading the panel of the J-35 to be in the general price range of your RV-10. Russ Daves N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06 I own and fly a 4 seat 1958 J-35 Bonanza. It has a 260 hp Continental IO-470-N and is a good airplane. BUT, with four adults and 20 lbs of luggage each, I can only carry about 25 gallons of fuel! Gross weight and aft CG problem. I have GAMI injectors and run LOP and can get about 165 knots TAS on 11.5 gph. I think the RV-10 handily beats the Bonanza on all of those counts. The complexity and expense of retractable gear, the time consuming annual (we do our own annuals), and the expense of Raytheon parts are another downside. It has been a great airplane and my wife and I have traveled to both coasts and lots of places in between in it, but we are really looking forward to our RV-10. David and Mary Maib #40559 QB wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 13, 2007
Subject: Re: Which certified comes closest to the RV-10?
I own a PA 28-235...it is certainly slower--130 kts or so, fixed gear, O 540, will haul more than 1/2 metric ton, with 84 gallons on board, 4 seat albeit smaller cabin and will go for a long distance whether with 4 on board or lots of stuff, burn about the same amount of fuel per hour at the RV 10 but doing 40-50 kts less per hour, this is also true for the C 182 but it's a good hauler but breezy due to the door and seals, generally. I don't see the Tiger as in the same class at the RV 10...good speed but useful load and distance are not in the same area...plus you've got the purple goop issue to consider on the early laminate wings. Both Piper's, Van's and Cessna are all metal and riveted fixed gear products...Bo's, Mooney's, Commander's, Arrow's etc in the higher performance planes have retractable legs...increasing annual costs and maintenance issues. Leg's down keeps it simpler but usually slower. Patrick

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Subject: Used Cylinders
Date: Mar 13, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Put 'em on ebay and see what they'll bring. I sold a set of jugs off a 65 Continental that were worn beyond limits and would require chroming to bring them back into spec. Still got $100 apiece for them, even though I had accurately described their condition. Otherwise, make bookends out of them. I've got some nice bookends made from a couple of C-85 cylinders that cracked on my old Cessna 140 and were replaced. Jack Phillips #40610 Trying to get the ProSeal off my fingers after gluing in my elevator trailing edges -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Lauritsen - Work Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 5:22 PM Subject: RV10-List: Used Cylinders Anybody have an idea what to do with the used cylinders off of my IO540? Replaced them all when rebuilt now they are sitting around. 5 of the 6 are within new limits. Has anyone sold theirs? What are they worth? Thanks, Mike _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Mar 13, 2007
Subject: Re: Tim Olso for Hall of Fame
I must be drinking the wrong colored KOOL Aid again.............Tim, Wha t color we suppose to be drinking this month? DEAN 40449 Paint fumes must be getting to me ________________________________________________________________________ Interested in getting caught up on today's news? Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines. http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/f ront.htm?csp=24
I must be drinking the wrong colored KOOL Aid again............ .Tim, What color we suppose to be drinking this month?

http://webmail.juno.com/RTE/HTMLRTAImages/Emoticons/75_75 .gif">

DEAN 40449

Paint fumes must be getting to me

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Date: Mar 13, 2007
From: "James K Hovis" <james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Professional Build Assist or Build to Order
John, Great post and well reasoned approach, keeps the OBAM principle pretty much as is while eliminating a part of the "hired gun" problem. As a wanna-be builder (hopefully will be turning that into builder status soon), I support TIm Olson's nomination. He's probably done more to inspire future RV-10 builders than any single person by doing a simple, sometimes daunting task of collecting and diseminating relavent infromation about building his and other great RV-10's. Without his webpages (and those of others he links to), I think my preparatory work and insiration would be rather lacking. Kevin Hovis builder soon!! On 3/12/07, John W. Cox wrote: > Let me go on record that ever since (actually before) biblical times, > women began providing services to men "outside of marriage" and the word > "professional " has been bastardized for the monetary benefit of the > few. > > We now have people claiming "Professional Build". Offering to build or > sell you "Professionally Built Aircraft". "Choose which flavor of the > month we can offer which will motivate you to pay us money for our > services - We will provide you that service - We promise". A profession > should be a group of people following a line of conduct as though it was > Professional, or a calling requiring Specialized Knowledge and training > often long and Intensive Academic Preparation, or engaged in one of the > learned professions such a my doctors, lawyer, accountant, structural > engineer, architect and real estate broker or better yet "conforming to > ethically standards of a profession". I am all for a method to > establish who is a professional builder out their. Are You? Do we want > a Professional Build Program? Do we quietly look the other way while the > working guys and gals claim "professional" and take the money and run. > > There are few builders who could meet such a definition, Dave Saylor may > just be one who by his body of work, ethic and training might establish > a benchmark. He is the only voice we have in the sea of manufacturers > trying to sell more product and make more dollars for themselves who > also serves our interest on the ARC. Builders who ethically manipulate > the 51% rule to "Build to Order" are not such Professionals they are > prostitutes (IMHO). > > The result of such work may (I think - Will) lead to statistically > adulterated insurance rates for the individual OBAM aircraft which have > benefited by the 51% directive. It should come as no surprise with the > increased sophistication of our aircraft systems that someone building > them (Us RV-10 builders) needed training, academic preparation and some > modicum of ethics. Paying for IT, does not make it Professional, it > makes it a bastardized product. Before I answer Paul's request for > clarification on what I think of the ARC, I thought I would clear the > air before wasting more bandwidth. > > We are about to get what we deserve from the 51% Committee, I would like > to think that as a group, we would like to see the private individuals > who build, continue to do so and prosper. I hold a lot of respect for > Real Builders. I would like to think we all would be willing to > contribute to helping increase the margin of safety with our product. To > use that redneck media guy's tagline from the "Fair and Balanced > Network" - "What say You?" > > Here is a teaser as to where I am going, Paul. Builder's who build > should be allowed to continue to modify, maintain and inspection for the > confirmation of continued safe operation their own personally registered > and personally built aircraft - not that of any others. Certainly not > "Build to Order". Builder's who sell, loose that specific Repairman > Certificate upon the Sale, but they retain the right to sell it and to > continue to build future OBAM. When individual's who did not build it > buy it, they would have to get a professionally qualified A & P mechanic > with current IA endorsement to complete the inspection for continued > safe operation and for the protection of the General Public - oh yeh, > and they cannot maintain it either cause they are not of sufficient > knowledge and training. We do not need increased insurance rates. We > do not need more restrictive regulations. We need more and higher > ethics in the Build process. We need to support guys like Tim Olson and > the sharing of information to improve our own group, from within. > > I will be nominating Tim Olson for the EAA Homebuilders Hall of Fame for > 2007 and wanted to announce it right here (for his selfless generosity, > tireless efforts and investment in time and the sharing of knowledge for > safer OBAM aircraft and the safe growth of our remarkable group) and I > am declaring it right now. Get back to Work. > > > John Cox > #40600 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Tailcone question
From: Michael D Chase <MChase(at)gdatp.com>
Date: Mar 13, 2007
John, Sorry no pictures as I am on the road, but I can give you a dimension. I am looking at 1/16 miss alignment over a 4-6 inch length around the bend location. Any thoughts? Michael Chase General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products 802-657-6029 Office 802-922-5930 Cell mchase(at)gdatp.com This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is private, confidential, or exempt from disclosure. Any unauthorized review, use, copying, printing, disclosure, retention, or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply to this e-mail, and delete all copies without disclosing this message to others. Thank you. "John Jessen" Sent by: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com 03/12/2007 11:00 AM Please respond to rv10-list(at)matronics.com To cc Subject RE: RV10-List: Tailcone question Michael, some pictures would help. If you looked at my website, and my discussion of the process, I didn't have alignment problems, but only because I snuck up on the final bend. You also have to be a little careful not to put a twist into it, so when you whack it, you really want the pressure you're putting on it to be in the final bend direction. Anyway, send some pictures of what the alignment problem is. And get some heat! John Jessen #40328 From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael D Chase Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 7:33 AM Subject: RV10-List: Tailcone question OK so here I am back with questions about the tail cone and that darn F-1032 Longerion? Anyway I think I am past the point of breaking them, but how about alignment with the skin. I see in the instructions that they want me us to line up the edges, did anyone else have an issue or have to work at this? Looking at a bunch of websites I don't see anyone who even talks about this effort. I am trying to figure out if I messed up my bend or if it is just because it was so cold in my shop when I tried to line everything up. I question more then the bend just because my alignment issues were not just limited to near the bend, but also existing forward of the bend with good alignment the first 1-2 feet then 1 foot off then back on just before the bend ect. This may be just the cold contributing to my issues as it was -28F that AM, I am definitely in the market for a small wood stove before next winter:-) thanks for the help Michael Chase General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products 802-657-6029 Office 802-922-5930 Cell mchase(at)gdatp.com This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is private, confidential, or exempt from disclosure. Any unauthorized review, use, copying, printing, disclosure, retention, or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply to this e-mail, and delete all copies without disclosing this message to others. Thank you. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "KiloPapa" <kilopapa(at)antelecom.net>
Subject: Rollling the Rudder skins leading edge - Building note
Date: Mar 13, 2007
For the Archives: Rolling the Rudder skins leading edge - Section 7-11 I have collected various builder's techniques/tips on rolling the Rudder skin leading edge and found what worked best for us was a combination of some of them. We found that the upper and mid skin sections being narrower in protruding length and Rudder width were better suited to rolling with 1" OD pipe. This produced a radius in which the rivet holes lined up well. When first trying to use the 1-1/4" OD pipe on the upper section we found that we ran out of turn - the pipe bumped into the spar - before the appropriate radius was produced. Using 1" on the mid section led to a slightly too tight radius on the bottom half of the mid section so the caution here is to bend and then check to find a compromise. This tighter than needed radius on the bottom half of the mid section was easy enough to reduce by hand. The lower section worked best when rolled with the 1-1/4" OD pipe as listed in the builders manual section 7-11 producing the bend with an appropriate radius and skin lap for the wider length and width of the skin at the bottom of the rudder. We also found duct tape worked OK and this is definitely a two-man job. One person with good arm strength needs to hold the pipe (taped to the skin) flat on the bench to keep the bend from occurring at the skin/spar rivet line but rather produce a nice smooth radius. The other person rolls the pipe with a pipe wrench. A fair amount of leverage is required on the lower sections. I think the mass of the pipe is an advantage over using a wood dowel. Also, don't forget to put the bend in the skin edge for smooth overlap before rolling the skins. Kevin 40494 tail/empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com>
Subject: NPRM Process
Date: Mar 13, 2007
I had to miss the second day of the last 51% meeting. When I get some details as to what was discussed I'll pass along everything I know. The first day was spent painstakingly reviewing all proposed changes to FAA forms and orders. This consists largely of 15 people (5 of which are attorneys) sitting around arguing over whether a sentence should contain the verb "shall" or "will" instead of "may". The poor typist, who makes the changes in MS Word on the fly, has to listen to people call out their favorite keyboard shortcuts amongst all the substantial changes. We also toured the Epic factory. That was cool. The process is boring and tedious, but necessary. Kind of like deburring the words. The committee <http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgOrders.nsf/0/ef e4866385f304a0862571b800535d7a/$FILE/Order1110.143.pdf> charter says: 11. PUBLIC PARTICIPATION. Interested persons or organizations who are not committee members but plan to attend a meeting must first acquire approval from the Director of the Aircraft Certification Service, or his/her delegate. The committee's meetings are generally not open to the public, however anyone in attendance may make comments or provide input, but such comments or input must be made through one of the committee members. And if you really want to see the sausage before it goes in the grinder you could do a FOI request. I'm not trying to be difficult, just playing by the rules. We were asked not to show the changes around before our proposal is done in order to speed up the process. Keep in mind we are working on proposed changes, which will not be finalized before the public gets a chance to comment. We are meeting next in Milwaukee on May 8 and 9. I know Don Lausman at FAA in Washington monitors this list and could probably give some pointers as to how to attend. As for the 51% rule and what the public wants, as far as I can tell, there is no clear majority opinion. Half want the rule to stay the same and half want to allow more builder assistance. What is clear is that no one wants more government intrusion into how we go about building our planes. The FAA is clear: the rule is has been allowed to slip. The committee thinks that's because no one knows how to interpret it. Our goal right now is to provide guidance that gives DARs and inspectors very clear tools to make a 51% determination. Later, we will take up the question as to whether or not we want an official way around "amatuer built" but for now we are firming up the rules we now have in place. Please let me know what you think. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 9:45 AM Subject: re: RV10-List: NPRM Process >>The members met in secret session last week. Notes of the meetings are closed to the aviation public. It should always be a concern in a free society when any "public" body meets in "secret sessions" about matters that will affect the public. I for one don't think anything was broken with the 51% rule so why are folks tinkering with it trying to "fix" it. While it is not perfect, any tinkering by the government and special interest parties will just create a bureaucracy of additional paperwork benefiting the few and annoying the many. William http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 13, 2007
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: NPRM Process
Dave; Thanks for dealing with all this boredom to assure we are doing the right this for the right people. Our goal right now is to provide guidance that gives DARs and inspectors very clear tools to make a 51% determination I like this approach. If we can educate the inspectors and leave the builders "as is" we are doing everything I would hope for; Changing the way I have to get my plane inspected. By providing detailed questions from the DAR or FAA about the plane will certainly put a builder on the spot to know their plane, but a real builder should know it or they missed something critical in the building. Thanks again! Pascal ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Saylor To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 11:12 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: NPRM Process I had to miss the second day of the last 51% meeting. When I get some details as to what was discussed I'll pass along everything I know. The first day was spent painstakingly reviewing all proposed changes to FAA forms and orders. This consists largely of 15 people (5 of which are attorneys) sitting around arguing over whether a sentence should contain the verb "shall" or "will" instead of "may". The poor typist, who makes the changes in MS Word on the fly, has to listen to people call out their favorite keyboard shortcuts amongst all the substantial changes. We also toured the Epic factory. That was cool. The process is boring and tedious, but necessary. Kind of like deburring the words. The committee charter says: 11. PUBLIC PARTICIPATION. Interested persons or organizations who are not committee members but plan to attend a meeting must first acquire approval from the Director of the Aircraft Certification Service, or his/her delegate. The committee's meetings are generally not open to the public, however anyone in attendance may make comments or provide input, but such comments or input must be made through one of the committee members. And if you really want to see the sausage before it goes in the grinder you could do a FOI request. I'm not trying to be difficult, just playing by the rules. We were asked not to show the changes around before our proposal is done in order to speed up the process. Keep in mind we are working on proposed changes, which will not be finalized before the public gets a chance to comment. We are meeting next in Milwaukee on May 8 and 9. I know Don Lausman at FAA in Washington monitors this list and could probably give some pointers as to how to attend. As for the 51% rule and what the public wants, as far as I can tell, there is no clear majority opinion. Half want the rule to stay the same and half want to allow more builder assistance. What is clear is that no one wants more government intrusion into how we go about building our planes. The FAA is clear: the rule is has been allowed to slip. The committee thinks that's because no one knows how to interpret it. Our goal right now is to provide guidance that gives DARs and inspectors very clear tools to make a 51% determination. Later, we will take up the question as to whether or not we want an official way around "amatuer built" but for now we are firming up the rules we now have in place. Please let me know what you think. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 9:45 AM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com; rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: re: RV10-List: NPRM Process >>The members met in secret session last week. Notes of the meetings are closed to the aviation public. It should always be a concern in a free society when any "public" body meets in "secret sessions" about matters that will affect the public. I for one don't think anything was broken with the 51% rule so why are folks tinkering with it trying to "fix" it. While it is not perfect, any tinkering by the government and special interest parties will just create a bureaucracy of additional paperwork benefiting the few and annoying the many. William http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: NPRM Process
Date: Mar 13, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Sounds like my Oregon Department of Aviation meeting scheduled for tomorrow AM after 10 hours of Graves at Horizon. I can relate. I enjoyed Epic as well. Thanks for the post. John Cox #40600 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 11:12 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: NPRM Process I had to miss the second day of the last 51% meeting. When I get some details as to what was discussed I'll pass along everything I know. The first day was spent painstakingly reviewing all proposed changes to FAA forms and orders. This consists largely of 15 people (5 of which are attorneys) sitting around arguing over whether a sentence should contain the verb "shall" or "will" instead of "may". The poor typist, who makes the changes in MS Word on the fly, has to listen to people call out their favorite keyboard shortcuts amongst all the substantial changes. We also toured the Epic factory. That was cool. The process is boring and tedious, but necessary. Kind of like deburring the words. The committee charter <http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgOrders.nsf/ 0/efe4866385f304a0862571b800535d7a/$FILE/Order1110.143.pdf> says: 11. PUBLIC PARTICIPATION. Interested persons or organizations who are not committee members but plan to attend a meeting must first acquire approval from the Director of the Aircraft Certification Service, or his/her delegate. The committee's meetings are generally not open to the public, however anyone in attendance may make comments or provide input, but such comments or input must be made through one of the committee members. And if you really want to see the sausage before it goes in the grinder you could do a FOI request. I'm not trying to be difficult, just playing by the rules. We were asked not to show the changes around before our proposal is done in order to speed up the process. Keep in mind we are working on proposed changes, which will not be finalized before the public gets a chance to comment. We are meeting next in Milwaukee on May 8 and 9. I know Don Lausman at FAA in Washington monitors this list and could probably give some pointers as to how to attend. As for the 51% rule and what the public wants, as far as I can tell, there is no clear majority opinion. Half want the rule to stay the same and half want to allow more builder assistance. What is clear is that no one wants more government intrusion into how we go about building our planes. The FAA is clear: the rule is has been allowed to slip. The committee thinks that's because no one knows how to interpret it. Our goal right now is to provide guidance that gives DARs and inspectors very clear tools to make a 51% determination. Later, we will take up the question as to whether or not we want an official way around "amatuer built" but for now we are firming up the rules we now have in place. Please let me know what you think. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 9:45 AM Subject: re: RV10-List: NPRM Process >>The members met in secret session last week. Notes of the meetings are closed to the aviation public. It should always be a concern in a free society when any "public" body meets in "secret sessions" about matters that will affect the public. I for one don't think anything was broken with the 51% rule so why are folks tinkering with it trying to "fix" it. While it is not perfect, any tinkering by the government and special interest parties will just create a bureaucracy of additional paperwork benefiting the few and annoying the many. William http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic s .com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Do the plastic brake lines leak?
Date: Mar 13, 2007
From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
Hey all - Just thought I'd take an informal poll to see whether people were having troubles with their plastic brake lines, or in general what people think of them? More and more I get the sense that the Vans design on some stuff can be summed up as simple, light, and effective when it works. Plastic brake lines? The race car builder in me says "nope". The airplane builder in me says "I have no clue whether this will break or not". Somebody got the straight poop out there? cj #40410 fuse www.perfectlygoodairplane.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <jim(at)CombsFive.Com>
Subject: Performance Comparison
Date: Mar 13, 2007
Regarding the comparison to other aircraft: Here is a performance comparison someone put together a long time ago. I have the original power point and would add to it if someone has the specific data points for other aircraft of interest. (Bonanza, etc). I don't know who did this originally, but I did keep a copy. The points used: Price, wingspan, length, wing area, empty weight, gross weight, useful load, useful load - full fuel, wing loading, power loading, engine horsepower, fuel capacity, cruise speed, takeoff performance, landing performance, range, climb rate. Jim Combs N312F (40192) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Transparencies
Date: Mar 14, 2007
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
G'day all, I would be interested in hearing opinions about the optimum shop temperature for glueing the transparenices. I believe it is wise to cut/drill/work plexi while the shop temperature is fairly warm. The recent weather in South Oz has topped 40deg C, and I have had NO trouble trimming the windscreen and side windows. The higher temperature clearly makes the plexi more flexible/pliable. I was wondering whether there is a down side to installing the transparencies when it is too hot - other than the adhesive going off too quickly. Because the plexi will be very flexible, it could be possible to install the transparency with a warp or twist (eg not enough has been trimmed and it can be forced into the recess.) When the temperature drops, the plexi will tend to its original formed shape and introduce stress in both the plexi and the joint. Consequences are obvious. I guess an advantage of glueing in the hotter temperatures is that the plexi has expanded and should be a better fit to the recess. If glued in cold weather the plexi would expand in the heat with the potential to 'pop out' of the recess. Not a big issue for sure. But as others have said - 'enquiring minds need to know'. Would it be better to wait for some cooler weather before glueing the transparencies? In writing this, it occurs that the same question could be asked of glueing/fitting the doors - jeez my head hurts ;-) Cheers, Ron 187 finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Schipper <mike(at)learningplanet.com>
Subject: Re: Do the plastic brake lines leak?
Date: Mar 13, 2007
I'm not sure of the long-term durability of the plastic brake lines, but they do serve as one important safety feature. Because they are opaque you can see the red brake fluid inside and you can tell if you have air in the system. Regards, Mike Schipper #40576 - Wings - www.rvten.com RV-9A - N63MS - Flying On Mar 13, 2007, at 5:02 PM, Chris Johnston wrote: > Hey all ' > > > Just thought I=92d take an informal poll to see whether people were > having troubles with their plastic brake lines, or in general what > people think of them? More and more I get the sense that the Vans > design on some stuff can be summed up as simple, light, and > effective when it works. Plastic brake lines? The race car > builder in me says =93nope=94. The airplane builder in me says =93I have > no clue whether this will break or not=94. Somebody got the straight > poop out there? > > > cj > > #40410 > > fuse > > www.perfectlygoodairplane.net > > List > ======================== > ======================== > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Transparencies
Date: Mar 13, 2007
For all the reasons that you mention, I would plan on glueing these in when the temperature is the most similair to the temperature that the plane will be spending most of its time in. The plexiglass really expands in the warm weather...a lot!. Consider summer temperatures vs winter temperatures in your area and whether the plane will be in a hanger or outside in the sun. My experience is based on my sailplane plexiglass canopy which is atleast four feet long. It can be way over 110 degrees F while flying low or on the ground and below freezing at 18K even on the same say in the summer months. Oh, one more thing to consider, things will be getting hotter regardless of how much weight Al Gore has put on or how much he is not practicing what he preaches. Saying no, don't make it so. After all, I hope I am wrong...rather error on the cautious side. Then again Ron, maybe the temperatures you are experiencing are the new average temperature for your area. John G. 93 degrees F in Los Angeles in March, Santa Ana winds should have stopped two months ago and almost no rain this year. >From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV10-List: Transparencies >Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 08:43:15 +1030 > >G'day all, > >I would be interested in hearing opinions about the optimum shop >temperature for glueing the transparenices. I believe it is wise to >cut/drill/work plexi while the shop temperature is fairly warm. The >recent weather in South Oz has topped 40deg C, and I have had NO trouble >trimming the windscreen and side windows. The higher temperature >clearly makes the plexi more flexible/pliable. > >I was wondering whether there is a down side to installing the >transparencies when it is too hot - other than the adhesive going off >too quickly. > >Because the plexi will be very flexible, it could be possible to install >the transparency with a warp or twist (eg not enough has been trimmed >and it can be forced into the recess.) When the temperature drops, the >plexi will tend to its original formed shape and introduce stress in >both the plexi and the joint. Consequences are obvious. > >I guess an advantage of glueing in the hotter temperatures is that the >plexi has expanded and should be a better fit to the recess. If glued >in cold weather the plexi would expand in the heat with the potential to >'pop out' of the recess. > >Not a big issue for sure. But as others have said - 'enquiring minds >need to know'. Would it be better to wait for some cooler weather >before glueing the transparencies? > >In writing this, it occurs that the same question could be asked of >glueing/fitting the doors - jeez my head hurts ;-) > >Cheers, >Ron >187 finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Transparencies
Date: Mar 14, 2007
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
Thanks John, I like your logic. With a max temp of 45-50C (outside on hardstand) and min temp of say -20C @ 15K feet, a good bet is 15-20C (60-70F). Probably close to what everyone would have done anyway, but I'll need to wait for the wx to cool down a tad. Cheers, Ron -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez Sent: Wednesday, 14 March 2007 10:50 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Transparencies --> For all the reasons that you mention, I would plan on glueing these in when the temperature is the most similair to the temperature that the plane will be spending most of its time in. The plexiglass really expands in the warm weather...a lot!. Consider summer temperatures vs winter temperatures in your area and whether the plane will be in a hanger or outside in the sun. My experience is based on my sailplane plexiglass canopy which is atleast four feet long. It can be way over 110 degrees F while flying low or on the ground and below freezing at 18K even on the same say in the summer months. Oh, one more thing to consider, things will be getting hotter regardless of how much weight Al Gore has put on or how much he is not practicing what he preaches. Saying no, don't make it so. After all, I hope I am wrong...rather error on the cautious side. Then again Ron, maybe the temperatures you are experiencing are the new average temperature for your area. John G. 93 degrees F in Los Angeles in March, Santa Ana winds should have stopped two months ago and almost no rain this year. >From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV10-List: Transparencies >Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 08:43:15 +1030 > >G'day all, > >I would be interested in hearing opinions about the optimum shop >temperature for glueing the transparenices. I believe it is wise to >cut/drill/work plexi while the shop temperature is fairly warm. The >recent weather in South Oz has topped 40deg C, and I have had NO trouble >trimming the windscreen and side windows. The higher temperature >clearly makes the plexi more flexible/pliable. > >I was wondering whether there is a down side to installing the >transparencies when it is too hot - other than the adhesive going off >too quickly. > >Because the plexi will be very flexible, it could be possible to install >the transparency with a warp or twist (eg not enough has been trimmed >and it can be forced into the recess.) When the temperature drops, the >plexi will tend to its original formed shape and introduce stress in >both the plexi and the joint. Consequences are obvious. > >I guess an advantage of glueing in the hotter temperatures is that the >plexi has expanded and should be a better fit to the recess. If glued >in cold weather the plexi would expand in the heat with the potential to >'pop out' of the recess. > >Not a big issue for sure. But as others have said - 'enquiring minds >need to know'. Would it be better to wait for some cooler weather >before glueing the transparencies? > >In writing this, it occurs that the same question could be asked of >glueing/fitting the doors - jeez my head hurts ;-) > >Cheers, >Ron >187 finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 13, 2007
From: Matt Reeves <mattreeves(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Do the plastic brake lines leak?
Lancair Boy's input, Several documented Lancair cases of plastic brake lines MELTING because of excessive heat at the wheels. Causes bad steering problems and a few wrecks. I used braided SSteel flex lines for the last 2 feet to the wheel itself and have had no problems with the plastic. I do use a polyurethane fuel tubing over the plastic tube where it might chafe (like on a hot day at Oshkosh in my underpants)! Just a protective tube over it where you feel it's necessary or might rub on something. Other than that, use it - it's easy, cheap and works. Some people say that after ten years or so, you it might crumble but I've had mine for ten years with no problems. My brother, in his RV-7A, uses braided SSteel through and through. Whatever makes you happy. Matt Reeves Rochester, NY Michael Schipper wrote: I'm not sure of the long-term durability of the plastic brake lines, but they do serve as one important safety feature. Because they are opaque you can see the red brake fluid inside and you can tell if you have air in the system. Regards, Mike Schipper #40576 - Wings - www.rvten.com RV-9A - N63MS - Flying On Mar 13, 2007, at 5:02 PM, Chris Johnston wrote: Hey all Just thought Id take an informal poll to see whether people were having troubles with their plastic brake lines, or in general what people think of them? More and more I get the sense that the Vans design on some stuff can be summed up as simple, light, and effective when it works. Plastic brake lines? The race car builder in me says nope. The airplane builder in me says I have no clue whether this will break or not. Somebody got the straight poop out there? cj #40410 fuse www.perfectlygoodairplane.net - The RV10-List Email Forum - class="Apple-converted-space"> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - class="Apple-converted-space"> --> http://forums.matronics.com --------------------------------- Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: Do the plastic brake lines leak?
Date: Mar 14, 2007
Had them in my -6 since 1998 with no problems and having them in the 10 fly ing. I think the design was fairly well thought out. The lines on the pil ot pedals are braided. Also the lines going to the wheels are not plastic. Anh ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Johnston To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 5:02 PM Subject: RV10-List: Do the plastic brake lines leak? Hey all - Just thought I'd take an informal poll to see whether people were having troubles with their plastic brake lines, or in general what people think of them? More and more I get the sense that the Vans design on some stuff ca n be summed up as simple, light, and effective when it works. Plastic brak e lines? The race car builder in me says "nope". The airplane builder in me says "I have no clue whether this will break or not". Somebody got the straight poop out there? cj #40410 fuse www.perfectlygoodairplane.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 2007
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Do the plastic brake lines leak?
Chris, I am in the process of replacing the plastic for the same reasons you stated. I found a dealer with pretty good prices for stainless teflon -3 brake lines. They are sold in inch sizes and are worth the peace of mind to me to do this upgrade. go to www.anplumbing.com type this number minus the quotes into the search window, it will take you to the page for these lines. "63010112" After making up my fuel lines, buying the brake lines already assembled makes my finger tips happy!! Rick S. 40185 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 2007
Subject: Re: Do the plastic brake lines leak?
From: jesse(at)saintaviation.com
It does seem a little rinky-dink at first look, but we have not had any problems with them. Interesting that they go out of the right pedals with plastic but out of the left pedals with those big metal-braided lines. Anyway, we have had no problems, but I don't know what will happen in 10-20 years. I haven't heard any general outcry from other RV builders who have had planes flying for years and years about them, and I think Van's has used them for quite a while, so my guess is they hold up fairly well, especially as long as they are hidden from the sun and things like that. They are also very easy and cheap to replace when needed. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com C: 352-427-0285 > Hey all - > > Just thought I'd take an informal poll to see whether people were having > troubles with their plastic brake lines, or in general what people think > of them? More and more I get the sense that the Vans design on some > stuff can be summed up as simple, light, and effective when it works. > Plastic brake lines? The race car builder in me says "nope". The > airplane builder in me says "I have no clue whether this will break or > not". Somebody got the straight poop out there? > > cj > #40410 > fuse > www.perfectlygoodairplane.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 2007
Subject: Re: Performance Comparison
From: jesse(at)saintaviation.com
I have also compiled a comparison chart on my website comparing performance of the RV-10 and several others, both certified and experimental. It can be seen at www.saintaviation.com/perf.htm. This is all data that I got from the respective websites. Speaking of which, has anybody seen the article in Kitplanes about the Raven 500? They are claiming a max gross 900 lbs over the RV-10, yet still a 650ft takeoff roll and 1500fpm climb, with the same engine. If they can do it and still get 197Kts, then more power to them, but I highly doubt it. Any other thoughts on that? Oh yeah, and how about a 500-600hour build. That would be, no doubt, without finishing (paint, interior, etc.). Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com C: 352-427-0285 > Regarding the comparison to other aircraft: > > Here is a performance comparison someone put together a long time ago. I > have the original power point and would add to it if someone has the > specific data points for other aircraft of interest. (Bonanza, etc). > > I don't know who did this originally, but I did keep a copy. > > The points used: > > Price, wingspan, length, wing area, empty weight, gross weight, useful > load, useful load - full fuel, wing loading, power loading, engine > horsepower, fuel capacity, cruise speed, takeoff performance, landing > performance, range, climb rate. > > Jim Combs > N312F (40192) > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org?
Date: Mar 14, 2007
Should we? Shirts, hats, group buys, unique products, etc..... See: http://www.cirruspilots.org/ http://www.piperowner.org/ http://www.cessnaowner.org/ http://www.lancairpilots.org/ http://www.maulepilots.org/ http://www.mooneyowners.com/ http://www.mooneypilots.com/ http://www.bonanza.org/ http://www.dapo.org/ http://www.cessna150-152.com/ ERic-- RV-10, 40014 N104EP Forget all that stuff about lift, gravity, thrust and drag. An airplane flies because of money. If God had meant man to fly, He'd have given him more money. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Do the plastic brake lines leak?
Date: Mar 14, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
My RV-4 is kit #313, flying since 1989 and has the plastic brake lines. No problems. Jack Phillips #40610 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jesse(at)saintaviation.com Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 9:13 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Do the plastic brake lines leak? It does seem a little rinky-dink at first look, but we have not had any problems with them. Interesting that they go out of the right pedals with plastic but out of the left pedals with those big metal-braided lines. Anyway, we have had no problems, but I don't know what will happen in 10-20 years. I haven't heard any general outcry from other RV builders who have had planes flying for years and years about them, and I think Van's has used them for quite a while, so my guess is they hold up fairly well, especially as long as they are hidden from the sun and things like that. They are also very easy and cheap to replace when needed. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com C: 352-427-0285 > Hey all - > > Just thought I'd take an informal poll to see whether people were having > troubles with their plastic brake lines, or in general what people think > of them? More and more I get the sense that the Vans design on some > stuff can be summed up as simple, light, and effective when it works. > Plastic brake lines? The race car builder in me says "nope". The > airplane builder in me says "I have no clue whether this will break or > not". Somebody got the straight poop out there? > > cj > #40410 > fuse > www.perfectlygoodairplane.net > > _________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Performance Comparison
Date: Mar 14, 2007
From: pilotdds(at)aol.com
Having owned an original comanche and now flying a 10.I think performance is quite similar.The raven #"s seem realistic exept top/cruise speed seems somewhat optimistic.The published build time is of course outlandish. -----Original Message----- From: jesse(at)saintaviation.com Sent: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 6:19 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Performance Comparison I have also compiled a comparison chart on my website comparing performance of the RV-10 and several others, both certified and experimental. It can be seen at www.saintaviation.com/perf.htm. This is all data that I got from the respective websites. Speaking of which, has anybody seen the article in Kitplanes about the Raven 500? They are claiming a max gross 900 lbs over the RV-10, yet still a 650ft takeoff roll and 1500fpm climb, with the same engine. If they can do it and still get 197Kts, then more power to them, but I highly doubt it. Any other thoughts on that? Oh yeah, and how about a 500-600hour build. That would be, no doubt, without finishing (paint, interior, etc.). Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com C: 352-427-0285 > Regarding the comparison to other aircraft: > > Here is a performance comparison someone put together a long time ago. I > have the original power point and would add to it if someone has the > specific data points for other aircraft of interest. (Bonanza, etc). > > I don't know who did this originally, but I did keep a copy. > > The points used: > > Price, wingspan, length, wing area, empty weight, gross weight, useful > load, useful load - full fuel, wing loading, power loading, engine > horsepower, fuel capacity, cruise speed, takeoff performance, landing > performance, range, climb rate. > > Jim Combs > N312F (40192) > ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org?
Date: Mar 14, 2007
try www.beagleaviation.com. they have my Rv10 logo already made up and can modify it to match your paint scheme. On Mar 14, 2007, at 9:26 AM, Eric Parlow wrote: > > > > Should we? > > Shirts, hats, group buys, unique products, etc..... > > See: > http://www.cirruspilots.org/ > http://www.piperowner.org/ > http://www.cessnaowner.org/ > http://www.lancairpilots.org/ > http://www.maulepilots.org/ > http://www.mooneyowners.com/ > http://www.mooneypilots.com/ > http://www.bonanza.org/ > http://www.dapo.org/ > http://www.cessna150-152.com/ > > ERic-- > RV-10, 40014 > N104EP > Forget all that stuff about lift, gravity, thrust and drag. > An airplane flies because of money. > If God had meant man to fly, He'd have given him more money. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com>
Subject: 51% Committee
Date: Mar 14, 2007
Thanks for all the replies. I recieved more this time than from any other post! I have all your input recorded. It is much along the same lines: maintain legitimate homebuilders' current rights and don't allow abusers of the current rule to keep pushing the envelope. Builder training is OK, even if the training occurs on the customer's project, but build to order, with the owner largely absent, is unfair. Keep 'em coming, Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 2007
Subject: Re: Do the plastic brake lines leak?
From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com>
=0A=0AGuys, =0A=0AAsk yourself, what is the worst case scenari o if the plastic portion of the brake system broke?- Unless it broke at t he pilot side tubes, only the co-pilot will not be able to brake and you wo uld have a mess of red fluid.- Even if it broke at the pilot side tubes y ou should still have enough fluid for at least one brake application from t he pilot position.- The plastic portion is relatively low pressure and a break there should not cause a failure of the entire system.- Certainly o ther than plastic tube is great, but worth the change from the stock design ? Ah? =0A=0AUnlike our recent axle support re-design, this would be of dubious added value.=0A=0AWilliam=0Ahttp://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ =0A=0A----------------------------------------=0A=0A --> RV10-L ist message posted by: Rick =0A=0AChris,=0A=0AI am in the proce ss of replacing the plastic for the same reasons you stated. I found a deal er with pretty good prices for stainless teflon -3 brake lines. They are so ld in inch sizes and are worth the peace of mind to me to do this upgrade. =0A=0Ago to www.anplumbing.com=0A=0Atype this number minus the quotes into the search window, it will take you to the page for these lines . "63010112"=0A=0AAfter making up my fuel lines, buying the brake lin es already assembled makes my finger tips happy!!=0A=0ARick S.=0A4 ======0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Do the plastic brake lines leak?
Date: Mar 14, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
As a result of so many other aircraft having problems with the plastic lines provided, I am following the path to safety of the plastic aircraft builders and choosing the prudent course. Non-plastic. Is seems easier to learn from the practices of those with real field experience than trust an untrained path of technical help that they might be okay.. but try them anyway. Converting speed and momentum into a motion at rest in a short distance and interval of time is my final goal after a great flight. John Cox #40600 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 6:07 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Do the plastic brake lines leak? Chris, I am in the process of replacing the plastic for the same reasons you stated. I found a dealer with pretty good prices for stainless teflon -3 brake lines. They are sold in inch sizes and are worth the peace of mind to me to do this upgrade. go to www.anplumbing.com type this number minus the quotes into the search window, it will take you to the page for these lines. "63010112" After making up my fuel lines, buying the brake lines already assembled makes my finger tips happy!! Rick S. 40185 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Re: 51% Committee
Date: Mar 14, 2007
Well summarized, Dave. My sentiments exactly! John Ackerman On Mar 14, 2007, at 9:20 AM, Dave Saylor wrote: > Thanks for all the replies. I recieved more this time than from > any other post! > > I have all your input recorded. It is much along the same lines: > maintain legitimate homebuilders' current rights and don't allow > abusers of the current rule to keep pushing the envelope. Builder > training is OK, even if the training occurs on the customer's > project, but build to order, with the owner largely absent, is unfair. > > Keep 'em coming, > > Dave Saylor > AirCrafters LLC > 140 Aviation Way > Watsonville, CA > 831-722-9141 > 831-750-0284 CL > www.AirCraftersLLC.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org?
Date: Mar 14, 2007
Yup sure, I'd be in. There are lots of other things that a national type group could do in addition to clothing items and name tags. I think it was Deems that floated a similar balloon a while back. Group purchasing, insurance etc. newsletter, fly ins, tech and flight seminars, best maintenance practices etc. etc. Dick Sipp 40065 Finishing Deems is right it is a misnomer. do not achieve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 9:26 AM Subject: RV10-List: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org? > > > Should we? > > Shirts, hats, group buys, unique products, etc..... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: six dimples molded into door shells not there?
Date: Mar 14, 2007
From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
hey all - i know, i know... i just ask question after question, all seemingly unrelated... i'm skipping around a bunch, but i promise, it all makes sense! here's the question of the evening - i'm looking at my left outer door shell, and i'm missing the upper right corner window dimple, and the aft edge dimple, and in the right outer door shell, i'm missing one of the window dimples. anyone else have this problem? any ideas? this fiberglass stuff is a little frustrating! cj #40410 wings/fuse/finishing! www.perfectlygoodairplane.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com>
Subject: Fiberglass top rudder fairing not strait.
Date: Mar 14, 2007
My fiberglass top rudder fairing (R-1009) is a bit curved from front to back. Not strait. Did anyone have much sanding to do on that piece? I could make it fit, but I am thinking of asking Van's for a new one. I am just wondering if this is a normal defect meant to be corrected by the builder, and a new one would be no better. Also, the elevator tip fairings are a bit short and much thicker at the trailing edge than the elevator trailing edge. Did everyone sand the fairings razor thin here? Did you make them longer with resin lay-up? Dave Leikam 40496 Getting my feet wet with resin fitting tail-feather fiberglass and waiting for fuse, wings and finish kit to arrive. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Fiberglass top rudder fairing not strait.
Date: Mar 14, 2007
Dave, Sounds like the part was pulled from the mold prior to complete cure. Mine had no right /left curve or up/down curve. Mine was atleast 1/2" short at the T.E. I had to add a layup of unidirectional carbon laminate sandwiched in a fiberglass and resin cotton flox mix, then sanded it to shape after cure. These parts are not very good and my trailing edges on the elevator fairings are strong and really thick, too thick. John G >From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: "matronics" >Subject: RV10-List: Fiberglass top rudder fairing not strait. >Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 23:29:48 -0500 > >My fiberglass top rudder fairing (R-1009) is a bit curved from front to >back. Not strait. Did anyone have much sanding to do on that piece? I >could make it fit, but I am thinking of asking Van's for a new one. I am >just wondering if this is a normal defect meant to be corrected by the >builder, and a new one would be no better. > >Also, the elevator tip fairings are a bit short and much thicker at the >trailing edge than the elevator trailing edge. Did everyone sand the >fairings razor thin here? Did you make them longer with resin lay-up? > >Dave Leikam >40496 >Getting my feet wet with resin fitting tail-feather fiberglass and waiting >for fuse, wings and finish kit to arrive. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Do the plastic brake lines leak?
Date: Mar 15, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
So John with this comment, how many of the more than 5000 + flying RV's are having problems with the plastic lines as supplied in the kit? If there was a problem and it could be fixed so readily, I am sure Vans with such a critical item would have fixed it, if it is as wide spread as you imply. Dan N289DT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 9:03 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Do the plastic brake lines leak? As a result of so many other aircraft having problems with the plastic lines provided, I am following the path to safety of the plastic aircraft builders and choosing the prudent course. Non-plastic. Is seems easier to learn from the practices of those with real field experience than trust an untrained path of technical help that they might be okay.. but try them anyway. Converting speed and momentum into a motion at rest in a short distance and interval of time is my final goal after a great flight. John Cox #40600 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 6:07 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Do the plastic brake lines leak? Chris, I am in the process of replacing the plastic for the same reasons you stated. I found a dealer with pretty good prices for stainless teflon -3 brake lines. They are sold in inch sizes and are worth the peace of mind to me to do this upgrade. go to www.anplumbing.com type this number minus the quotes into the search window, it will take you to the page for these lines. "63010112" After making up my fuel lines, buying the brake lines already assembled makes my finger tips happy!! Rick S. 40185 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 15, 2007
From: Niko <owl40188(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Fw: Axle Extension - Brute Force Method
When we had the axle extension group buy I had opted out as the group got very large and I was thinking that we could put another group buy at a later date. These things have a way of sneaking up on you and I ended up working on this part earlier than I had anticipated. Being a bit early for another group buy I brute forced it and got another solution. I replaced the original 1/2 inch diameter extension and AN4 bolt with a 3/4 inch diameter hex extension and AN6 bolt. I have attached a few pictures for those interested in trying the same modification. I found the 3/4 inch hex extension at McMasterCarr in 12 inch lengths. Niko 40188 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Fw: Axle Extension - Brute Force Method
Date: Mar 15, 2007
Looks like a good option also. Thanks for the pics. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Niko Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 11:36 AM Subject: RV10-List: Fw: Axle Extension - Brute Force Method When we had the axle extension group buy I had opted out as the group got very large and I was thinking that we could put another group buy at a later date. These things have a way of sneaking up on you and I ended up working on this part earlier than I had anticipated. Being a bit early for another group buy I brute forced it and got another solution. I replaced the original 1/2 inch diameter extension and AN4 bolt with a 3/4 inch diameter hex extension and AN6 bolt. I have attached a few pictures for those interested in trying the same modification. I found the 3/4 inch hex extension at McMasterCarr in 12 inch lengths. Niko 40188 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dunne" <acs(at)acspropeller.com.au>
Subject: Nose wheel
Date: Mar 16, 2007
Further to the archived info on nose wheel valve stem clearance and the different wheel you can use, have the flying tens had any further issues with the turning of the axle spacers and axle? Using the stock parts as supplied by Vans, including the original stainless spacers, my wheel won't turn by hand at all. Correct torque applied. Also, I noticed Vans still say it's o.k to use either of their spacer designs although they are shipping the alloy version with their later kits. Given that Tims fix is well documented on his site, how have other builders addressed this? John 40315 (finishing misnomers) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 15, 2007
From: PJ Seipel <seipel(at)seznam.cz>
Subject: Re: six dimples molded into door shells not there?
I had a similar problem; I was missing a couple of dimples. I just lined up what I had and made sure the doors were together firmly and it turned out ok. PJ RV-10 #40032 Chris Johnston wrote: > hey all - > > i know, i know... i just ask question after question, all seemingly unrelated... i'm skipping around a bunch, but i promise, it all makes sense! here's the question of the evening - i'm looking at my left outer door shell, and i'm missing the upper right corner window dimple, and the aft edge dimple, and in the right outer door shell, i'm missing one of the window dimples. anyone else have this problem? any ideas? this fiberglass stuff is a little frustrating! > > cj > #40410 > wings/fuse/finishing! > www.perfectlygoodairplane.net > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "The McGough Family" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Do the plastic brake lines leak?
Date: Mar 16, 2007
RV6 VH-MUM 500++ hours plastic lines and loving them. No need to waist money here. Just install like the plans say. chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 12:26 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Do the plastic brake lines leak? > > So John with this comment, how many of the more than 5000 + flying RV's > are having problems with the plastic lines as supplied in the kit? If > there was a problem and it could be fixed so readily, I am sure Vans > with such a critical item would have fixed it, if it is as wide spread > as you imply. > Dan > N289DT > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 9:03 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Do the plastic brake lines leak? > > > As a result of so many other aircraft having problems with the plastic > lines provided, I am following the path to safety of the plastic > aircraft builders and choosing the prudent course. Non-plastic. > > Is seems easier to learn from the practices of those with real field > experience than trust an untrained path of technical help that they > might be okay.. but try them anyway. Converting speed and momentum into > a motion at rest in a short distance and interval of time is my final > goal after a great flight. > > John Cox > #40600 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 6:07 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Do the plastic brake lines leak? > > > Chris, > > I am in the process of replacing the plastic for the same reasons you > stated. I found a dealer with pretty good prices for stainless teflon -3 > brake lines. They are sold in inch sizes and are worth the peace of mind > to me to do this upgrade. > > go to www.anplumbing.com > > type this number minus the quotes into the search window, it will take > you to the page for these lines. "63010112" > > > After making up my fuel lines, buying the brake lines already assembled > makes my finger tips happy!! > > Rick S. > 40185 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 15, 2007
From: Niko <owl40188(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Figure for Axle Extension email
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Mar 16, 2007
Subject: Van's Shipping FYI
Just wanted to give you guys a heads up in case anyone does things like I have. Normally when I ordered my sub kit's I would give them a deposit and then put a note in the comments to contact me when ready to ship for final paym ent. No sense in losing (or paying) the interest in the mean time right. This has been fine for the first two kit sections but this time they didn't contact me. When I called today I was told the letter they sent months ag o was the notice and they didn't feel it necessary to contact me again so i f I hadn't called they would have eventually got around to calling me or I would have forfeited the deposit. Interestingly I also almost had to pay the 2007 prices even though I sent the order in December. Apparently in that instance my credit card was dec lined for some unknown reason (my bank couldn't find an authorization attem pt) and they sent me an email which I never received. About a week into Ja n I received a letter about it and immediately sent them a check (same acco unt). Two weeks after that I got another letter saying I owed the extra fe w hundred because I didn't get the deposit in before the end of the year an d they felt I took too long to respond, two weeks mind you. Well after som e discussions they agreed to drop the upcharge and I suggested that they gi ve people a call when they run into a problem rather than sending an email or letter. Probably take less time than writing and sending the letter any way. Both of these cases involved Ann and I don't know if she is newer but I thought I had dealt with someone else in the past. So anyone that thinks I'm bashing Van's, keep it to yourself because I'm not. I just want everyone to know that you need to follow up with Van's wi th a phone call for any kit orders that you may place and again around ship ping time. Especially if you only give them the deposit. Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 2007
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Nosegear fork
With all the hubbub over the NW501.25 vs NW511.25 lately and the rotating spacers issues.....can someone tell me what the diameter of the gearleg is where it goes through the fork - and the length of the bushing'ed area on the fork? Here's the reason for asking: I already have larger tires for my RV6A maingear and would like something larger for the nose too. Flying off of some pretty rough strips here on DelMarVa peninsula. The 'new' design nosewheel fork looks similar to the RV10 nosegear fork - if it fits...I have my larger nosewheel.... Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 2007
From: Darton Steve <sfdarton(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: KSAT visit
I will be I San Antonio, Texas. Any builders that would like a helping hand this Monday and Tuesday? Steve 40212 No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Paralleling the control columns
Date: Mar 16, 2007
I noticed that I will not be able to parallel the two colums. Irrespective of my rotation of my stick as it goes into the column, now that both are setup in the plane, I can see that my copilot stick is angled more out toward the front right. What I am trying to say is that the plane of the entire stick is aiming toward the right(The plane being the base, the curve and the top hand grip area as if it was laying on a flat table). It looks like the receiver in the column for the copilots side is angled out. With this, I will never get the stick parallel. They are not in the same plane. No it can't be corrected by rotating the shaft and redrilling. It is the column that is out of toe per say. Did anyone else notice this on their controls? I think, like the elevator control horns, there might be a sufficient deviation between rt and lf in the tooling. The pilots side control stick's plane looks perfectly oreinted straight ahead. I don't think the hand grip portion will be that noticeble to one flying the plane from either side. Any other ideas other that getting a new column and stick or just leaving it alone? John G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Phosphoric Acid
Date: Mar 16, 2007
Rene' 801-721-6080 Any ideas of where I can get some phosphoric acid? Rene N423CF 40322 Finish......or something like it. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 2007
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Phosphoric Acid
Lowe's Aqua Mix Quart Phosphoric Acid Cleaner $6.95 Larry Rene wrote: > > > Rene' > 801-721-6080 > > > Any ideas of where I can get some phosphoric acid? > > Rene > N423CF > 40322 > Finish......or something like it. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 17, 2007
Subject: Re: www.rv10pilots.org or www.rv10owner.org?
In a message dated 3/14/2007 10:33:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, flysrv10(at)gmail.com writes: www.beagleaviation.com I have a sister in this business so I'm aware of the cost of the stock goods...and beagle seems a tad high but to each there own... Patrick ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Do the plastic brake lines leak?
Date: Mar 15, 2007
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:51 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Do the plastic brake lines leak? No plastic brake line problems in 750 hours/ten years in a RV4. Similar arrangement to the 10. Dick Sipp 40065 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:51 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Do the plastic brake lines leak? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 2007
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons. Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy had problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a reduction in stop speed. Well, I didn't think mine were originally rigged bad. It was strange, as sometimes I would look at the ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line with the wingtips and flaps. Then other times I'd look at them in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just a small amount. I would get done flying and look at them and they'd be fine. I didn't know what to make of it. I thought maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just didn't know for sure. Didn't concern me much because it flew great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that when I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of thing. It's like having your fly down in public. ;) So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK in the hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little more than 1/8" per side. So I thought I'd adjust them. I strapped the seatbelt around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and behold the ailerons were now in-line very nicely. It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel induced in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire issue. So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the elevator and centered the sticks. Yeehaw, there was what I was looking for! The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the elevators are neutral. Time to adjust. When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be matched with the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours on. It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really try to fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt. So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for flight, and perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours with droopy tips like I did. Tim -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
Date: Mar 18, 2007
From: "Tom Deutsch" <deutscht(at)rhwhotels.com>
Tim did you do the adjustment in the bell crank to aileron rod? How many turns did it take? One end or both equally? Tom Deutsch #40545 FAA inspection Friday-hope to fly Saturday or Sunday. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:28 AM Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons. Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy had problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a reduction in stop speed. Well, I didn't think mine were originally rigged bad. It was strange, as sometimes I would look at the ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line with the wingtips and flaps. Then other times I'd look at them in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just a small amount. I would get done flying and look at them and they'd be fine. I didn't know what to make of it. I thought maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just didn't know for sure. Didn't concern me much because it flew great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that when I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of thing. It's like having your fly down in public. ;) So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK in the hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little more than 1/8" per side. So I thought I'd adjust them. I strapped the seatbelt around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and behold the ailerons were now in-line very nicely. It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel induced in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire issue. So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the elevator and centered the sticks. Yeehaw, there was what I was looking for! The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the elevators are neutral. Time to adjust. When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be matched with the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours on. It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really try to fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt. So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for flight, and perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours with droopy tips like I did. Tim -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Phosphoric Acid
Date: Mar 19, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Poly Fiber makes Aluma-Dyne E-2310 phosphoric acid etch cleaner, available through Aircraft Spruce. A.S.S also selsl Alumiprep 33, which is another brand of phosphoric acid etch for aluminum. The alumiprep is about $30 a gallon, the Aluma-Dyne is about $45 a gallon. Same stuff, as near as I can tell. I've used both. You need to alodyne or prime within 8 hours of acid etching the aluminum. Jack Phillips #40610 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:22 PM Subject: RV10-List: Phosphoric Acid Rene' 801-721-6080 Any ideas of where I can get some phosphoric acid? Rene N423CF 40322 Finish......or something like it. _________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted French" <ted_french(at)telus.net>
Subject: Gascolator requirement
Date: Mar 19, 2007
I just had the final inspection on my RV-10 in Kelowna. Everything went well but Transport Canada is insisting that I need to install a gascolator at the lowest point in the fuel system. I don't see how to install a gascolator at the lowest point, which has to be the tank outlets. I want it on the downstream side of the fuel pump, and the only mounting choices I see is to mount it on the firewall somewhere. Has anyone else mounted a gascolator and if so where did you mount it. I'm open to suggestions Ted French C-FXCS RV-10 almost ready to go. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
Date: Mar 19, 2007
Tim, So what you are telling us is that when you strapped the control stick nuetral side to side but full back elevator with the seat belt, the aileron alignment problem was gone. But any other time with the sick not in the full back position, the ailerons droop. The best that I can figure it is that the bushing reciever in the column is not parallel to the holes in the fork which hold the aileron pushrod. Or, it could be that the holes in the fork at the end of the tube which allows you to tie the right and left sticks together is not perpendicular to the long axis of the tube itself. In other words, then the stick goes full forward to full back, this translates into aileron movement even when the stick stays nuetral side to side. The bottom of WD 1011 (R) (L) column travel is on a different arc then your stick grip. Am I understanding this correctly? If so, did you just put the stick in slightly down elevator(Cruise position) and then adjust the ailerons to their nuetral position. So now with this adjustment, when the stick goes full back as in directly before a slow speed stall, what do the ailerons do? A slight droop would be okay only as long as flaps are down, but if no flaps are not deployed, this would be a bad position to enter into a stall because the wing tip would stall first before the in board portion of the wing did. I think reflex would be slightly safer. JOhn G. >From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons >Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:27:40 -0500 > > >Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour >to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons. >Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy had >problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a reduction >in stop speed. Well, I didn't think mine were originally >rigged bad. It was strange, as sometimes I would look at the >ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line with >the wingtips and flaps. Then other times I'd look at them >in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just >a small amount. I would get done flying and look at them >and they'd be fine. I didn't know what to make of it. I thought >maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just >didn't know for sure. Didn't concern me much because it flew >great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that when >I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of thing. >It's like having your fly down in public. ;) > >So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK in the >hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little more than >1/8" per side. So I thought I'd adjust them. I strapped the seatbelt >around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and behold the >ailerons were now in-line very nicely. > >It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel induced >in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire issue. >So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the elevator and >centered the sticks. Yeehaw, there was what I was looking for! >The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or >so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the elevators >are neutral. Time to adjust. > >When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be matched with >the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours on. >It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really try to >fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt. > >So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for flight, and >perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours with >droopy tips like I did. > >Tim > >-- >Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Gascolator requirement
Date: Mar 19, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Ted, I'm nowhere near that point on my RV-10, but on the previous airplane I built, I located the gascolator on the firewall as you are describing. Check out a Piper Cherokee, which has a similar fuel system. The gascolator is located low on the firewall, but is higher than the fuel tank sump drains as you describe. One thing to be careful of when mounting the gascolator on the firewall: Be sure it is high enough that if you make a bad landing and wipe the landing gear off the plane, the gascolator will not be the lowest point on the airplane. You want it high enough that the plane can rest on the firewall without any chance of damaging the gascolator and causing a fuel leak and fire Jack Phillips #40610 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted French Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 9:52 AM Subject: RV10-List: Gascolator requirement I just had the final inspection on my RV-10 in Kelowna. Everything went well but Transport Canada is insisting that I need to install a gascolator at the lowest point in the fuel system. I don't see how to install a gascolator at the lowest point, which has to be the tank outlets. I want it on the downstream side of the fuel pump, and the only mounting choices I see is to mount it on the firewall somewhere. Has anyone else mounted a gascolator and if so where did you mount it. I'm open to suggestions Ted French C-FXCS RV-10 almost ready to go. _________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Greenley" <greenley(at)starband.net>
Subject: RV-10 in southwest Michigan
Date: Mar 19, 2007
I have almost decided to build an RV-10, but am planning on waiting for Oshkosh to start so that I have a chance to ride in one to make sure I am comfortable with it. Everything looks and sounds good, but it seems a little foolish to start such a project without ever having sat in a 10. Is there any chance anyone will be in Southwest Michigan (C91) in the next few months. I would love a chance to see a 10 and maybe get started a few months sooner. Bill Greenley (wanting a change from my '56 172) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV-10 in southwest Michigan
Date: Mar 19, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Why not come to Sun 'n' Fun next month? Van's will be there with their demonstrators, with less folks in line for a ride. Jack Phillips #40610 Finally finishing up the Elevators this week. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Greenley Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 2:17 PM Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 in southwest Michigan I have almost decided to build an RV-10, but am planning on waiting for Oshkosh to start so that I have a chance to ride in one to make sure I am comfortable with it. Everything looks and sounds good, but it seems a little foolish to start such a project without ever having sat in a 10. Is there any chance anyone will be in Southwest Michigan (C91) in the next few months. I would love a chance to see a 10 and maybe get started a few months sooner. Bill Greenley (wanting a change from my '56 172) _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: RV-10 in southwest Michigan
Date: Mar 19, 2007
Jump in the water is fine. I purchased my first kit in Dec 05, took my wife up to Vans (disguised as a birthday trip for her to Oregano) in Apr 06 to see a RV-10 for the first time and got a ride. Because of lead times, had ordered by wing kit in March... Rene' Felker 40322 N423CF Finish or something like it.... 801-721-6080 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Greenley Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 12:17 PM Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 in southwest Michigan I have almost decided to build an RV-10, but am planning on waiting for Oshkosh to start so that I have a chance to ride in one to make sure I am comfortable with it. Everything looks and sounds good, but it seems a little foolish to start such a project without ever having sat in a 10. Is there any chance anyone will be in Southwest Michigan (C91) in the next few months. I would love a chance to see a 10 and maybe get started a few months sooner. Bill Greenley (wanting a change from my '56 172) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Greenley" <greenley(at)starband.net>
Subject: RV-10 in southwest Michigan
Date: Mar 19, 2007
I wish I could, but I teach part time and the local school system has their priorities mixed up and did not schedule Spring break to coincide with Sun 'n' Fun. :( Bill Greenley -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 2:34 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 in southwest Michigan Why not come to Sun 'n' Fun next month? Van's will be there with their demonstrators, with less folks in line for a ride. Jack Phillips #40610 Finally finishing up the Elevators this week. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Greenley Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 2:17 PM Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 in southwest Michigan I have almost decided to build an RV-10, but am planning on waiting for Oshkosh to start so that I have a chance to ride in one to make sure I am comfortable with it. Everything looks and sounds good, but it seems a little foolish to start such a project without ever having sat in a 10. Is there any chance anyone will be in Southwest Michigan (C91) in the next few months. I would love a chance to see a 10 and maybe get started a few months sooner. Bill Greenley (wanting a change from my '56 172) http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 2007
From: Eric Large <catalyticeric(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-10 in southwest Michigan
I'm a long way from flying, but my plane build location is Holland, MI if it helps. Eric Large #40062 side tracked on custom fiberglass interior pieces and cowl ----- Original Message ---- From: William Greenley <greenley(at)starband.net> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 2:16:58 PM Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 in southwest Michigan I have almost decided to build an RV-10, but am planning on waiting for Oshkosh to start so that I have a chance to ride in one to make sure I am comfortable with it. Everything looks and sounds good, but it seems a little foolish to start such a project without ever having sat in a 10. Is there any chance anyone will be in Southwest Michigan (C91) in the next few months. I would love a chance to see a 10 and maybe get started a few months sooner. Bill Greenley (wanting a change from my '56 172) Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 2007
From: Mark Lanier <markandangelasrv10(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: AE Fuel Guardian Sensor Locations
I'm trying to avoid having to seal the tanks and fill them (per the instructions) in order to get a sensor location. Does anyone have accurate locating dimensions for the sensors on the inboard rib and the corresponding fuel quantity they show. Thanks in advance! Mark Lanier #519 www.lanier-rv10.com --------------------------------- Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 2007
From: jimandlaura <jimandlaura(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Gascolator requirement
Ted, I put two gascolators in my RV-6. One in each wingroot. Believe it or not, there is room, but it would be difficult to install with your wings on. I put them just in front of the spar and low enough so the drain was below the wingroot fairings. Maintenance was a bit of a pain, especially the safety wire after cleaning. However, it was well worth it. During the first year of flying, it filtered a lot of debris out of the line. The debris was mainly thin pieces of pro-seal from the edges of the fillets (sp?) inside the tanks. It's way better to catch the crap there in you wingroot, then let it get into your valve and fuel pumps. I got the idea from an old Rviator and it worked great. I'm glad I did it on the 6 and I'm planning to do the same on the 10. v/r, Jim #40191 Finishing kit almost here! I just had the final inspection on my RV-10 in Kelowna. Everything went well but Transport Canada is insisting that I need to install a gascolator at the lowest point in the fuel system. I don't see how to install a gascolator at the lowest point, which has to be the tank outlets. I want it on the downstream side of the fuel pump, and the only mounting choices I see is to mount it on the firewall somewhere. Has anyone else mounted a gascolator and if so where did you mount it. I'm open to suggestions Ted French C-FXCS RV-10 almost ready to go. ________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Duke" <swift(at)fuse.net>
Subject: Looking for Engine Primer
Date: Mar 20, 2007
Looking for engine primer - Kohler, or Essex 'push-pull' type for use on carbureted O-360. Thanks! Don Duke swift(at)fuse.net Hm: 513.321.4745 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 2007
From: Jay Wik <jwik(at)crary.com>
Subject: Re: AE Fuel Guardian Sensor Locations
We must be in the same spot. I was looking for the same thing and found photo's on Chris Johnston's web page. I didn't see how he arrived at his location. He talks about it under "Tanks - Final assembly" and states the position he has will alarm at 5.5gallons. Link to his site is below. http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/ Jay Wik #40536 Fuel tanks Mark Lanier wrote: > I'm trying to avoid having to seal the tanks and fill them (per the > instructions) in order to get a sensor location. Does anyone have > accurate locating dimensions for the sensors on the inboard rib and > the corresponding fuel quantity they show. > > Thanks in advance! > > > Mark Lanier > #519 > www.lanier-rv10.com > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 2007
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: AE Fuel Guardian Sensor Locations
Here is a picture of my location. I filled the tanks up with 5 gallons to get this location. I am pretty happy with this. Because of the fuel sloshing in the tanks though they start to come on if there is roughly 10 gallons in the tank. The other day I landed and both lights were on when I landed. If I reset it, they will stay off until you hit a little bit of turbulence. When I filled the tanks, they only took 40 gallons which meant I had 20 gallons in each tank. I trust my fuel totalizer the most but the fuel guardians are there to remind you if you forgot to switch tanks or if you have a leak all of a sudden like Tim did when his fuel drain got stuck. Hope that helps. http://scottandranae.smugmug.com/gallery/124475#50698594 Mark Lanier wrote: I'm trying to avoid having to seal the tanks and fill them (per the instructions) in order to get a sensor location. Does anyone have accurate locating dimensions for the sensors on the inboard rib and the corresponding fuel quantity they show. Thanks in advance! Mark Lanier #519 www.lanier-rv10.com Scott Schmidt Tronco Energy Office 801-990-1252 Cell 801-718-1277 Fax 801-990-1256 scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: AE Fuel Guardian Sensor Locations
Date: Mar 20, 2007
From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
Hehe. I copied Scott. He did all the legwork getting the tank in the right position (dihedral and all that) and found an appropriate spot. I did some rough calculations (very rough) and agreed with the location he used. The tank stiffener bead kind of dictates where you have to put it anyway - you could put it lower to have it indicate low fuel at a spot even less than around 5.5 gallons, but having it go on just to let you know why the prop just stopped turning doesn't seem that helpful! :-) On a side note, you'll all be happy to know that now I have enough room to finish building my aircraft. Over the weekend, we "clearanced" the rear wall of the garage, and butted a Rubbermaid tool shed up against the back wall. Got us an extra 10.5 feet, and some breathing room. as it was, the garage was about 18 feet long, and for those of you at that stage, the fuselage with the tailcone attached and no engine on the front is about that long (give or take a foot or so). The garage isn't that wide either, and with the wings also in there, it's been tight. Can't wait to move the wings out of there and into the livingroom! cj #40410 fuse/finishing/re-organization/playing with electrical gadgets www.perfectlygoodairplane.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Wik Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:14 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: AE Fuel Guardian Sensor Locations We must be in the same spot. I was looking for the same thing and found photo's on Chris Johnston's web page. I didn't see how he arrived at his location. He talks about it under "Tanks - Final assembly" and states the position he has will alarm at 5.5gallons. Link to his site is below. http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/ Jay Wik #40536 Fuel tanks Mark Lanier wrote: I'm trying to avoid having to seal the tanks and fill them (per the instructions) in order to get a sensor location. Does anyone have accurate locating dimensions for the sensors on the inboard rib and the corresponding fuel quantity they show. Thanks in advance! Mark Lanier #519 www.lanier-rv10.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 2007
From: Mark Lanier <markandangelasrv10(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
When I first saw this thread, it got me curious. Since I dont even have the fuselage kit yet all I have to go from is what I can see in the plans. According to the pics on p.1 of sections 23, 39 & 44, the bottom of the control stick where the F-1064 aileron pushrod assembly attaches swings fore & aft through an arc when elevator input is put into the stick. This means the inboard end of the F-1064 moves fore & aft with elevator input. The outboard end of the F-1064 is fixed in the fore & aft direction. So, the farther the inboard end of the F-1064 moves away from the neutral point (this goes for either forward or rearward movement), the more the outboard end of the F-1064 is pulled inward. Following the control linkages out to the ailerons, this translates to up aileron movement on both wings. So, it sounds like if the aileron neutral point was set with the stick full aft (or foreword) then that explains why they would then droop when the stick is moved back to neutral. Of course, that all sounds good in theory As Tom mentions, his ailerons move up with full stick motion fore or aft, which seems to support the theory. So, if someone really wants to isolate this and prove my theory, it seems the wing root farings can be pulled to check the outboard end of the F-1064 for inward travel with fore & aft stick movement. Anyone want to try it??? Tom Deutsch wrote: > > Since I just finished rigging my controls in preparation for my first > flight I just had to go to the airport to check. What I found was my > ailerons were perfectly aliened with the elevator in the neutral > position and when going to full up elevator they raised approx 3/16" and > at full down elevator they also raised the same amount. Interesting. I > agree with Tim that is not a big cause for concern. If you rig with the > elevator at neutral you will be good to go. > > Tim, do you have an accumulation of performance stats for the 10? If so > were can I find it? > > Tom Deutsch, #40545 Mark Lanier #519 www.lanier-rv10.com --------------------------------- Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 2007
From: Mark Lanier <markandangelasrv10(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: AE Fuel Guardian Sensor Locations
Scott, that's exactly what I'm looking for, thanks! Anyone else with a different configuration? Thanks for including the additional info about the sloshing as well. It got me wondering if a long U-shaped channel bent out of some thin sheet stock and riveted vertically surrounding the sensor (open at the top and bottom) would act as a buffer for that sort of thing(?) My only question would be if aluminum in close proximity to the sensor would throw it off since the light needs to dissipate in the liquid. Would aluminum less than an inch away reflect the light back before it has time to dissipate and give a false reading?? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the sensor's function. Anyway, I've got an email to Aircraft Extras asking about this... maybe they'll reply with some info. Any thoughts on the baffle? Scott Schmidt wrote: Here is a picture of my location. I filled the tanks up with 5 gallons to get this location. I am pretty happy with this. Because of the fuel sloshing in the tanks though they start to come on if there is roughly 10 gallons in the tank. The other day I landed and both lights were on when I landed. If I reset it, they will stay off until you hit a little bit of turbulence. When I filled the tanks, they only took 40 gallons which meant I had 20 gallons in each tank. I trust my fuel totalizer the most but the fuel guardians are there to remind you if you forgot to switch tanks or if you have a leak all of a sudden like Tim did when his fuel drain got stuck. Hope that helps. http://scottandranae.smugmug.com/gallery/124475#50698594 Mark Lanier #519 www.lanier-rv10.com --------------------------------- Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 2007
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: AE Fuel Guardian Sensor Locations
I don't know if the baffle is necessary. Right now, even though it is calibrated for 5 gallons, I know that when I have 10 gallons in the tank with light turbulence the light will come on. When I reset it, it stays off until it gets bumpy again (or if I have uncoordinated turns). I think the baffle system would have to be pretty complex to keep the light from coming on. If you have a fuel totalizer you should be fine. That fuel totalizer on the Grand Rapids can be calibrated and it is always within one gallon. Mark Lanier wrote: Scott, that's exactly what I'm looking for, thanks! Anyone else with a different configuration? Thanks for including the additional info about the sloshing as well. It got me wondering if a long U-shaped channel bent out of some thin sheet stock and riveted vertically surrounding the sensor (open at the top and bottom) would act as a buffer for that sort of thing(?) My only question would be if aluminum in close proximity to the sensor would throw it off since the light needs to dissipate in the liquid. Would aluminum less than an inch away reflect the light back before it has time to dissipate and give a false reading?? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the sensor's function. Anyway, I've got an email to Aircraft Extras asking about this... maybe they'll reply with some info. Any thoughts on the baffle? Scott Schmidt wrote: Here is a picture of my location. I filled the tanks up with 5 gallons to get this location. I am pretty happy with this. Because of the fuel sloshing in the tanks though they start to come on if there is roughly 10 gallons in the tank. The other day I landed and both lights were on when I landed. If I reset it, they will stay off until you hit a little bit of turbulence. When I filled the tanks, they only took 40 gallons which meant I had 20 gallons in each tank. I trust my fuel totalizer the most but the fuel guardians are there to remind you if you forgot to switch tanks or if you have a leak all of a sudden like Tim did when his fuel drain got stuck. Hope that helps. http://scottandranae.smugmug.com/gallery/124475#50698594 Mark Lanier #519 www.lanier-rv10.com --------------------------------- Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. Scott Schmidt Tronco Energy Office 801-990-1252 Cell 801-718-1277 Fax 801-990-1256 scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 2007
From: "James K Hovis" <james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: AE Fuel Guardian Sensor Locations
On 3/21/07, Scott Schmidt wrote: > I don't know if the baffle is necessary. Right now, even though it is > calibrated for 5 gallons, I know that when I have 10 gallons in the tank > with light turbulence the light will come on. When I reset it, it stays off > until it gets bumpy again (or if I have uncoordinated turns). I think the > baffle system would have to be pretty complex to keep the light from coming > on. > > If you have a fuel totalizer you should be fine. That fuel totalizer on > the Grand Rapids can be calibrated and it is always within one gallon. > > Mark Lanier wrote: > Scott, that's exactly what I'm looking for, thanks! Anyone else with a > different configuration? > > Thanks for including the additional info about the sloshing as well. It > got me wondering if a long U-shaped channel bent out of some thin sheet > stock and riveted vertically surrounding the sensor (open at the top and > bottom) would act as a buffer for that sort of thing(?) My only question > would be if aluminum in close proximity to the sensor would throw it off > since the light needs to dissipate in the liquid. Would aluminum less than > an inch away reflect the light back before it has time to dissipate and give > a false reading?? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the sensor's function. > Anyway, I've got an email to Aircraft Extras asking about this... maybe > they'll reply with some info. > > Any thoughts on the baffle? > > > Scott Schmidt wrote: > Here is a picture of my location. I filled the tanks up with 5 gallons > to get this location. I am pretty happy with this. Because of the fuel > sloshing in the tanks though they start to come on if there is roughly 10 > gallons in the tank. The other day I landed and both lights were on when I > landed. If I reset it, they will stay off until you hit a little bit of > turbulence. When I filled the tanks, they only took 40 gallons which meant > I had 20 gallons in each tank. > > I trust my fuel totalizer the most but the fuel guardians are there to > remind you if you forgot to switch tanks or if you have a leak all of a > sudden like Tim did when his fuel drain got stuck. > > Hope that helps. > > http://scottandranae.smugmug.com/gallery/124475#50698594 > > > Mark Lanier > #519 > www.lanier-rv10.com > --------------------------------- > Don't pick lemons. > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. > > > Scott Schmidt > Tronco Energy > Office 801-990-1252 > Cell 801-718-1277 > Fax 801-990-1256 > scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com>
Subject: Cabin top
Date: Mar 21, 2007
I'm trimming the door openings in the cabin top to fit between the fore and aft bulkheads on the fuselage and it's getting thin. Looks like I'll have about 1/8" of glass left on the vertical portions of the top where it will connect to the bulkheads. This subject was discussed a while back but I can't find where anyone posted a final thickness for the top in this area. Does 1/8" sound like what the rest have been seeing? Thanks..........John J. Hasbrouck #40264 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Tip for Trimming the doors
Date: Mar 22, 2007
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
I trimmed the return flange of the cabin cover to the scribe lines as directed by the plans and ended up taking off too much. I may need to build up the over trimmed areas with glass/epoxy. The trim lines were straight as a dog's hind leg and very inaccurate. I was not about to trust the trim lines on the doors. I trimmed the doors yesterday for a pretty darn good fit. After trimming to 1/8" of the scribe line per plans, the trick was to notch the door perimeter down to the scribe line (notches about 1/8" wide) at 6-12" intervals. When clecoed to the deck/fuse, use a fine sharpie to mark the position of the notch on the deck/fuse to check how far away a cut to the scribe line would be from the deck/fuse edge. Adjust the depth of the notches to match the edges of the deck/fuse, then trim to the notches. If a notch is too deep and extends past the edge of the deck/fuse, it is much easier to fill the 1/8" notch than to try and build up an overtrimmed door edge. YMMV, but it worked a treat for me. Cheers, Ron 187 finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cabin top
Date: Mar 22, 2007
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
Yep - mine were about 1/8" also. cheers, Ron ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hasbrouck Sent: Thursday, 22 March 2007 8:57 AM To: RV LIST Subject: RV10-List: Cabin top I'm trimming the door openings in the cabin top to fit between the fore and aft bulkheads on the fuselage and it's getting thin. Looks like I'll have about 1/8" of glass left on the vertical portions of the top where it will connect to the bulkheads. This subject was discussed a while back but I can't find where anyone posted a final thickness for the top in this area. Does 1/8" sound like what the rest have been seeing? Thanks..........John J. Hasbrouck #40264 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Cabin top
John, that's about right, it seems a little thin compared to the rest of the structure and after sanding off so much but it takes that much in order to get it to fit between the bulkheads. There was another builder over yesterday who was at the same place you are and he also commented about it. Here's a couple of links to what I did. page forward and back through this album to see several different pictures http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2043%20Cabin%20Cover/slides/DSC03354.html here's the page from my construction log on the same topic: http://deemsrv10.com/43-3s3-4.htm Good Luck! Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ John Hasbrouck wrote: > I'm trimming the door openings in the cabin top to fit between the > fore and aft bulkheads on the fuselage and it's getting thin. Looks > like I'll have about 1/8" of glass left on the vertical portions of > the top where it will connect to the bulkheads. This subject was > discussed a while back but I can't find where anyone posted a final > thickness for the top in this area. Does 1/8" sound like what the > rest have been seeing? Thanks..........John > > J. Hasbrouck #40264 > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Tip for Trimming the doors
Date: Mar 21, 2007
Ron, Great tip, thanks! John Hasbrouck #40264 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 2007
Subject: Re: Cabin top
From: evmeg(at)snowcrest.net
> paper thin if you are lucky......breaking through in spots more likely. I'm trimming the door openings in the cabin top to fit between the fore > and aft bulkheads on the fuselage and it's getting thin. Looks like I'll > have about 1/8" of glass left on the vertical portions of the top where it > will connect to the bulkheads. This subject was discussed a while back > but I can't find where anyone posted a final thickness for the top in this > area. Does 1/8" sound like what the rest have been seeing? > Thanks..........John > > J. Hasbrouck #40264 --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using SnowCrest WebMail. http://www.snowcrest.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Leffler" <rvmail(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: Kitlog Pro
Date: Mar 22, 2007
I've been working with Matt Dralle over the last couple days on a problem that impacts all Kitlog Pro users. I am glad to report that he has fixed the problem in which paragraphs are run together. All you have to do is to save the offending pages again and re-upload them to mykitlog.com. Matt was unaware of the issue, but promptly fixed the problem once I gave him the specifics of the issue. It appears that we've already benefited from Matronics purchasing Kitlog Pro. The previous owner was aware of this issue for several months and chose to do nothing. Great support Matt! Bob N410BL - RV-10 N3493R - PA-28 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 22, 2007
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>
Subject: OAT probe location
Where's the most common location for the OAT probe? Wing root? naca nacelle? suggestions? Thanks Fred Williams 40515 Wire planning for fuse. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: OAT probe location
Date: Mar 22, 2007
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Don't us the naca. I have a 10 deg difference between it and the one on the wing root filler skin. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Williams, M.D. Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:57 AM Subject: RV10-List: OAT probe location Where's the most common location for the OAT probe? Wing root? naca nacelle? suggestions? Thanks Fred Williams 40515 Wire planning for fuse. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 22, 2007
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: OAT probe location
Some place that engine heat can't affect it. That generally exculdes most locations below the windshield and along the fuselage or wing root much inside of the wheels. Many planes put it on an inspection plate outboard of the main gear. On 3/22/07, Fred Williams, M.D. wrote: > > Where's the most common location for the OAT probe? Wing root? naca > nacelle? suggestions? > > Thanks > > Fred Williams > 40515 > Wire planning for fuse. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 22, 2007
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>
Subject: OAT probe
Thanks for the info. Will put it in the wing root area. Will keep on top away from the exhaust. Fred Williams ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 22, 2007
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>
Subject: OAT probe
OK ..... not on top. :). Thanks. I am in the process of getting the wiring diagram done with Accuracy avionics. good bunch to work with. Again Thanks for the input. Dr Fred. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: sloppiness in control stick, compliance, take your medicine
Date: Mar 22, 2007
Just a note: I got my new right stick and base yesterday and installed it last night. This one did not have the receiver angled out toward the co pilots right knee. I was very careful in installing the bushing and making the bushing receiver only 1/64-1/32 smaller. There is abolutely no play in the piece. Now my left side is not as good as I have about 1/16" space difference between the bushing and the bushing receiver in the base. Best Method: use your AN4 bolt and insert it into one hole in the tie rod fork that holds the two bases(Sticks) together. While the bolt is in one hole, let the other end of the bolt hit the other side of the fork, ever so slightly to the side of the hole. Mark your bolt with a sharpie( the inner distance between the two holes) This gets an accurate distance as the end of the fork distance may be different from the distance between the holes. Put your bushing next to the bolt, both on end, on a perfectly flat surface(Back rivet plate) and mark the length on the bushing. Put the bushing in your drill press and spin is and mark the circumference of your mark onto the bushing. Sand the bushing on you disk sander or bench belt sander with a way to maintain it perpendicular to the disk or belt. Trim it just shy of your mark. keep it over size. Install the bushing without the base, into the fork and check snugness. Place bushing in base then make base 1/64" smaller It willl glide just like the contol stick of really expensive airplane. Oh' I forgot, this is a really expensive airplane! John Gonzalez 409 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fiberglass top rudder fairing not strait.
From: "John Kirkland" <jskirkland(at)webpipe.net>
Date: Mar 22, 2007
Yes, mine was that way too. Took a long time to get both sides straight and parallel to each other. I used a small file instead of sanding. I kept the pressure off the flange so I didn't make the flange deeper. A lot of RV builders just slather a bunch of resin on the flange line and try to hide it and the pop rivets for a baby-skin smooth appearance. Thought about returning the piece to Vans, but they'd just send me another crappy one, and I'd loose the time I already spent trying to fix it. It just takes time and patience to make good looking fiberglass parts from the crap Vans suppliers make for him. -------- RV-10 #40333 N540XP (reserved) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102367#102367 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: OAT probe location
From: "greghale" <ghale5224(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 22, 2007
I was thinking of mounting the OAT probe on the bottom of the wing tip. What do you think? -------- Greg Hale rv8/rv10 www.nwacaptain.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102373#102373 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Murray Automotive" <dgmurray(at)swcmail.net>
Subject: Re: Kitlog ProKitlog Pro
Date: Mar 23, 2007
This is great news. How do we get the repairs done to our individual programs?. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Starter for sale
Date: Mar 23, 2007
Hello All, I have a ES 149-12 LS starter for sale for $200. Contact me off line if you are interested. Rob. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <rvmail(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: Re: Kitlog ProKitlog Pro
Date: Mar 23, 2007
The change was done on the web side. All you have to do is to re-save any offending page and re-upload it to myskitlog.com > > From: "Murray Automotive" <dgmurray(at)swcmail.net> > Date: 2007/03/23 Fri AM 10:31:02 EST > To: > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Kitlog ProKitlog Pro > > This is great news. How do we get the repairs done to our individual programs?. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2007
From: Phil White <philwhite9(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Defrost fans
Deems: Just installed my fans last week. Bought 92mm Silverstone computer fans and grilles from MicroCenter computer people. Used fly-cutter in a portable drill to cut holes, just prior to installing windshield. I find they put out more air than I expected; probably could have used the 80mm fan size, and still have lots of defrost capability, plus avionics cooling. See pics. Phil White #220 (doors + windows) > From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> > Subject: RV10-List: What have you done about defrost fan's ? > > > I'm planning on installing a couple of fans in the glareshield (upper > fwd fuse) and am interested in learning what fans people have used, > where they bought them and any install tips. I'm toying with the idea of > installing them in removable access panels ala David Mc Neil if it > doesn't introduce any structural issues. Any advice? > > Deems Davis # 406 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Elevator travel after pushrods are all connected.
Date: Mar 23, 2007
I am looking at pages 39-10, figure 2 and figure 3. I set the elevator bellcrank into the nuetral position by using the angle fabricated in an earlier section. The elevator counter balance horns are in line with the HS when this is done.(GOOD) My question is that I fabricated the Guage, step 1 page 39-10 and used it to nuetral my control stick and line up the bearing hole in pushrod F-1089 with the fork of part WD 1010. The bottom of step 2, it says perform final check of control system once elevators are installed and check that the elevator horns contact their stops prior to anything else in the control column touching. I have a problem that the F1065, page 39-8, figure 3 contacts the forward most portion of the cutout in the tunnel side skins before the elevator horns contact the aft elevator stop. It translates into about 1/4" of stick pull back at the top of the stick and everthing torques a bit and then the stop works. If if reset the position which the guage establishes, that would give me more room to pull back on the stick and engage the elevator stop, but it would also make the control stick in a more forward position while elevators are in their neutral position. What to do? Trim the cut out in the tunnel side skin maybe 1/4" One other point. No one ever mentioned anything about my comment regarding a binding point in the system. Page 39-8, figure 3, the bolts that tie F-1065 to the control bases, WD-1011(R) (L), bind on part F-1033(R) (L) found on page 39-7 fig 4, when the stick is pulled back to the most up elevator position then giving full aileron to either side. If one does not push the stick forward before neutralizing the ailerons, the stick is stuck in that aileron position. (Again, Are their aileron stops in the wings that prevent these nuts from getting hung up on part F-1033?) John G. 409 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator travel after pushrods are all connected.
Date: Mar 23, 2007
John, I found the same interferences with the hardware of the control stick bases and the structure so I reversed all the hardware from the orientation shown in the diagram. ( I don't have the plans with me so I can't give you a figure number.) When I did that most of the interference went away. I also found I needed to adjust the elevator tubes without relying on the two jigs in the plans. There was some interference with the bottom of the bellcrank ( battery box area) in full down travel and also some as you describe with the tunnel sides. Took some playing with the rod ends to make it work. Goal is to get full elevator travel without interference in the system. I found to jigs to be less than helpfull. Previously posted this some time back. Jesse commented that he hasn't seen this problem with his planes so I can't say how common it is. I was feeling like the Loan Ranger there for a while......John Hasbrouck #40264 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: What have you done about defrost fan's ?
Date: Mar 23, 2007
Deems: McMaster-Carr has a broad selection of fans...too many to pick from. Dick Sipp > > I'm planning on installing a couple of fans in the glareshield (upper > fwd fuse) and am interested in learning what fans people have used, > where they bought them and any install tips. I'm toying with the idea of > installing them in removable access panels ala David Mc Neil if it > doesn't introduce any structural issues. Any advice? > > Deems Davis # 406 > Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) > http://deemsrv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2007
From: rv10builder <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Slick Start?
Anybody know why the Slick Start is hard to get lately? I've got one on order w/ Van's....well, backorder that is. Jesse - I recall you mentioned something about the unit being discontinued/replaced? Brian #40308 http://www.mykitlog.com/rv10builder ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Belue" <kdbelue(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Slick Start?
Date: Mar 23, 2007
I ordered a SlickStart from Van's a couple of months ago but didn't have any problem getting it. But, it was made for Slick mags and I have Bendix, so I sent it back. The version for Bendix is not being made and I called a lot of places looking for one. I finally found one in Canada and bought it - the last one they had. I did see some in stock in South America. As far as I can tell, you shouldn't have much problem finding a SlickStart if you have Slick mags. Kevin Belue RV-6A flying RV-10 finish ----- Original Message ----- From: "rv10builder" <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 10:28 PM Subject: RV10-List: Slick Start? > > Anybody know why the Slick Start is hard to get lately? I've got one on > order w/ Van's....well, backorder that is. Jesse - I recall you mentioned > something about the unit being discontinued/replaced? > > Brian > #40308 > http://www.mykitlog.com/rv10builder > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Mar 24, 2007
Subject: Re: Defrost fans
By using the squirrel fan style of PC fan you can avoid a lot of the dra wbacks Tim mentioned PLUS you need not cut a large circle/s in your glar eshield. Also you will allow more room for your EFIS or EMS screens. just my cents worth. DEAN 40449 Mod 366 being completed ________________________________________________________________________ Interested in getting caught up on today's news? Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines. http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/f ront.htm?csp=24
By using the squirrel fan style of PC fan you can avoid a lot o f the drawbacks Tim mentioned PLUS you need not cut a large circle/s in your glareshield. Also you will allow more room for your EFIS or E MS screens.

just my cents worth.

DEAN 40449

Mod 366 being completed

______________________ __________________________________________________
Interested in getting caught up on today's news?
Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines.

________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Defrost fans
Date: Mar 24, 2007
How about sticking one of those computer fans on the tunnel with a pair of 1" scats up to the dash. It'll give those btu's stuck in the tunnel something productive to do. Plus we'd be able to smell a fuel leak in there sooner... Steve Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Defrost fans By using the squirrel fan style of PC fan you can avoid a lot of the drawbacks Tim mentioned PLUS you need not cut a large circle/s in your glareshield. Also you will allow more room for your EFIS or EMS screens. just my cents worth. DEAN 40449 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2007
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Defrost fans
*You may want to consider a larger fan with a speed control to reduce the RPM. This would help reduce the noise from the fan. Tim mentioned stand offs to help keep the fan from warping. You may want to consider a gasket or bushing like stand offs. This also would reduce the noise from fan vibration. Look at they have a huge selection of fans along with some resources on Quiet fans and Quiet computers. You might as well put in a fan that is quiet. They have a black steel mesh filter that could be used in lieu of the DIY approach <http://www.directron.com/smf80.html> * -- Larry Rosen RV-10 #356 http://lrosen.nerv10.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Gretz Heated Pitot Mount
From: "dmaib(at)mac.com" <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Date: Mar 24, 2007
I am thinking about the installation of my Gretz pitot and have some questions. I have installed the mount in the 2nd from the tip bay as others have done and suggested by Gretz as the optimum location. I am curious about future access to the electronic control module. It has to be fairly close to the tube and I am wondering where others are mounting it. Has anyone put an additional access panel in the wing in that area? [Question] -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102613#102613 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Defrost fans - THANKS
Larry, GREAT link! I just ordered a pair of low noise 80mm fans w/ speed controller, black mesh filter/grill and screws, EASY! THANKS to all who responded and provided very helpful information. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Larry Rosen wrote: > > *You may want to consider a larger fan with a speed control to reduce > the RPM. This would help reduce the noise from the fan. > > Tim mentioned stand offs to help keep the fan from warping. You may > want to consider a gasket or bushing like stand offs. This also would > reduce the noise from fan vibration. > > Look at they have a huge selection of fans along > with some resources on Quiet fans and Quiet computers. You might as > well put in a fan that is quiet. > > They have a black steel mesh filter that could be used in lieu of the > DIY approach <http://www.directron.com/smf80.html> > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Slick Start?
Date: Mar 24, 2007
The word from Mattituck was that it was discontinued and then there was going to be a replacement coming out early this year (Feb or March). You could call Mattituck, but that's all I know about it. I had to send one back because it was bad and then they told me that, so they just gave me my money back after I decided that I didn't want the new one. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rv10builder Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 11:29 PM Subject: RV10-List: Slick Start? Anybody know why the Slick Start is hard to get lately? I've got one on order w/ Van's....well, backorder that is. Jesse - I recall you mentioned something about the unit being discontinued/replaced? Brian #40308 http://www.mykitlog.com/rv10builder -- 7:44 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Good Test of cockpit lighting/Defrost Fans with Night IFR
De
From: "jim berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net>
Date: Mar 24, 2007
Tim Great info on your cockpit lighting and good timing as I am making those decisions now for my panel. I recently posed the question of red versus blue lighting to a friend who is an ophthalmologist, long time pilot with 6 planes ( C421, C185 on floats, C150, Pitts, Fuqua jet, Eclipse vlj on order. Must be tough staying current in all his toys.) Without getting into a discussion of photoreceptors and how the eye works, his response is "if you are primarily interested in seeing outside the cockpit go with red lights. If you are more concerned about reading maps, charts, etc in the cockpit go with blue lighting." He uses only blue. Jim Berry 40482 Finishing Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102648#102648 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2007
From: James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net>
Subject: Wing Root Connectors
Anyone using any wing root connectors (between inboard section of the wing and the fuselage) for the wiring? If you are, or have thought about using them, which ones are you using? I have already decided to have connectors there, so that decision is made already. I am just at a loss for what is "standard" for connectors there. -Jim 40384 (60 Degrees F today, expecting 4" snow tonight... Isn't New England wonderful?) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Kitlog Pro
At 05:29 AM 3/22/2007 Thursday, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: >Matt bought KitLog?!? Wow, thats cool! Maybe he will fix the problem where clicking next on a project web page takes you backward in dates instead of forward. That has always drove me nuts along with the run on paragraphs. Spell check would be great too. I also mentioned to Paul way back when I was beta testing his 2.0 release that adding the ability to attach files to entries like scanned receipts to expenses would be useful. > >Michael Sausen Michael/Kitlog Users, I think you will be pleased. I've updated the "Next/Previous" functionality on the individual log entry pages so that the function is now more intuitive. Give it a try and let me know what you think... http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=msausen&project=22&category=0&log=16675&row=5 How's that for customer service? Tell a friend! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics / Kitlog Pro Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2007
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Root Connectors
William Curtis also used the AMP CPC connectors for the wing root wiring. Here is a photo from his site <http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/07Wings/wings95k.html> And a link to the Mouser catalog page <http://www.mouser.com/catalog/624/914.pdf> Our friends at D2A :-( also used these in their RV-10 wiring harness. Larry Rosen #356 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Wing Root Connectors
Date: Mar 24, 2007
CPC connectors from mouser.com are great. I use series 1 free-hanging connectors for all wiring and just normal BNC's for coax. For the strobes I use 4 pins with the 4th being for the un-insulated wire. This allows you to wire the whole plane before installing the wings. I also use these in the Wingtips and anywhere else that I want to be able to disconnect in the future to work on stuff. Call me if you have more questons about this. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com 352-427-0285 -----Original Message----- From: "James Hein" <n8vim(at)arrl.net> Sent: 3/24/2007 2:20 PM Subject: RV10-List: Wing Root Connectors Anyone using any wing root connectors (between inboard section of the wing and the fuselage) for the wiring? If you are, or have thought about using them, which ones are you using? I have already decided to have connectors there, so that decision is made already. I am just at a loss for what is "standard" for connectors there. -Jim 40384 (60 Degrees F today, expecting 4" snow tonight... Isn't New England wonderful?) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2007
Subject: Re: Wing Root Connectors
From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com>
Here is the link:=0Ahttp://wcurtis.nerv10.com/07Wings/wings95k.html =0A=0ADetailed part numbers are here:=0Ahttp://wcurtis.nerv10.com/90E lectrical/RV10Electrical_v3b.pdf=0A=0AWilliam=0Ahttp://wcurtis.ner v10.com/ =0A=0A----------------------------------------=0A ---- -- -------------------- -------------------------------------------------- also used the AMP CPC connectors for the wing root wiring.=0AHere is a photo from his site =0A=0AAnd a link to the Mouser catalog page =0A=0AOur friends at D2A :-( also used these in their RV-10 wiring harne =================0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2007
From: Robert Wright <flywrights(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Gretz Heated Pitot Mount
I mounted mine on the inboard face of the rib that is just OUTboard of the access panel. Used nutplates. The built in metal standoffs seem to be fine. If any one has me in their address book I've changed my email in anticipation of a move. Rob Wright #392 Looking for sympathy from all those who've moved a project mid-build... ----- Original Message ---- From: "dmaib(at)mac.com" <dmaib(at)mac.com> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 7:21:28 AM Subject: RV10-List: Gretz Heated Pitot Mount I am thinking about the installation of my Gretz pitot and have some questions. I have installed the mount in the 2nd from the tip bay as others have done and suggested by Gretz as the optimum location. I am curious about future access to the electronic control module. It has to be fairly close to the tube and I am wondering where others are mounting it. Has anyone put an additional access panel in the wing in that area? [Question] -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102613#102613 http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RE:wiring diagrams
Date: Mar 24, 2007
How have you folks with these nice wiring diagrams drawn them. I have mine on a large sheet of paper but would like to have straight lines and typed labels. Suggestions? Gary 40274 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Scat tubing resting on WD-1010?
Date: Mar 24, 2007
From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
Hey all - I'm doing something funny, and in trying to fit everything in the tunnel, I was trying to figure out how the scat tubing for the rear heat was kept away from WD-1010, and there's no mention of it really. I looked on the websites of all the usual suspects, and it looks like everyone is just routing it over top of the WD-1010 control column and it just sits there. is this right? am I just so conditioned to keeping everything away from everything else that it's making me overthink? Help! cj #40410 fuse www.perfectlygoodairplane.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2007
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RE:wiring diagrams
I use AutoCAD which is a full feature professional drafting (CAD) program (ie expensive). Some options Visio TurboCad (cheep) v7 and above will open aeroelectric cad files look on ebay for an older version Expresspcb <http://www.expresspcb.com/ExpressPCBHtm/Free_cad_software.htm> (free) gEDA <http://www.geda.seul.org/> (free open source) ProgeCAD LT <http://www.progecad.com/> (free) Go here for a link to a bunch of CAD programs here: <http://www.freecad.com/cgi-bin/dcd/html/CAD_Programs___General_Purpose/> Do a search on the AeroElectric forum for additional information. Larry Rosen #356 gary wrote: > > > > How have you folks with these nice wiring diagrams drawn them. I have > mine on a large sheet of paper but would like to have straight lines > and typed labels. Suggestions? > > Gary > > 40274 > > > * * > * * > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > * * > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2007
Subject: RE:wiring diagrams
From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com>
MS Visio!=0A=0AWilliam=0Ahttp://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ =0A=0A-- --------------------------------------=0A X-Rcpt-To: =0A=0A - How have you folks with these nice wiring diagrams dra wn them.- I have mine on a large sheet of paper but would like to have st raight lines and typed labels.- Suggestions? Gary 40274 =0A=0A - - http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums ============== =0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2007
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>
Subject: Gretz heated Pitot Tube
David; Take a look at my kit log site. I posted a few pics of the plate I made to attach the circuit board. Finished attaching the internal wiring and closing everything up a few weeks ago. Went well. I can access the board and remove the tube for service at a later date all from the current access panel Fred Williams 40515 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Wing Root Connectors
Date: Mar 24, 2007
I plan on using something that no one else has mentioned. Where there is a simple positive/ negative connection, I plan on using something that is used extensively in radio controlled vehicle electrical systems, They are called Deen's connectors. Link: http://www.heli-world.com/detail.aspx?ID=418 I've used them in my sailplane JOhn G. 409 >From: James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: Wing Root Connectors >Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 14:20:56 -0400 > > >Anyone using any wing root connectors (between inboard section of the wing >and the fuselage) for the wiring? > >If you are, or have thought about using them, which ones are you using? > >I have already decided to have connectors there, so that decision is made >already. I am just at a loss for what is "standard" for connectors there. > >-Jim 40384 (60 Degrees F today, expecting 4" snow tonight... Isn't New >England wonderful?) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Lightspeed Ignition
Date: Mar 24, 2007
I'm hooking up the wires from the Lightspeed sensors at the flywheel to the computer and I'm wondering how others have gotten the 15 pin d-sub connector through the firewall. I have removed the hood and found they used a solder cup connector so I don't want to desolder the wires. It looks like I could turn the connector block sideways and reduce the size the of hole required to let it pass through the firewall but about the smallest I can squeeze the wires down to is 1". Then the problem is-where do I find a 1" snap bushing with a very large ID? Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2007
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Lightspeed Ignition
I bought a 1-1/4" SCAT tube flange and drilled the hole just slightly larger than that, so there's no sharp edge for the wire to touch. Then I took the shroud off and ran it through, along with all my EIS probe wires and most everything that goes thru the firewall (with sum exceptions). I stuffed it with fire putty, and capped the ends with RTV. The exceptions were the big fat wires for the charging system and the 3 coil wires for the lightspeed. The coil wires I used 1 eyeball drilled to size to hold all 3 wires, and then filled the gaps with hi-temp RTV too. I think I also ran my mag P-lead and fuel/oil pressure wires through elsewhere too, just for convenience, but they could have gone through the same fat scat tube connection. It's kind of a middle of the road approach. There are some who will use snap bushings everywhere, but I think that's maybe a little far on the liberal end from a safety perspective. There are some who will go with the all-stainless fire-sleeved passthrough stuff, which is very respectably on the far end of the conservative safety end. But, you're allowed to pick your method of choice. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying Albert Gardner wrote: > > > *Im hooking up the wires from the Lightspeed sensors at the flywheel > to the computer and Im wondering how others have gotten the 15 pin > d-sub connector through the firewall. I have removed the hood and > found they used a solder cup connector so I dont want to desolder > the wires. It looks like I could turn the connector block sideways > and reduce the size the of hole required to let it pass through the > firewall but about the smallest I can squeeze the wires down to is > 1. Then the problem is-where do I find a 1 snap bushing with a very > large ID?* > > * * > > *Albert Gardner* > > *Yuma, AZ* > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 25, 2007
Subject: Re: Lightspeed Ignition
I used 1" stainless steel firewall penetration seals. I only had to file th e hole slightly larger than I was originally planning to allow the connector to pass through. Pictures attached. -Jim In a message dated 3/25/2007 9:04:13 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Tim(at)MyRV10.com writes: Albert Gardner wrote: > > > *I=99m hooking up the wires from the Lightspeed sensors at the flyw heel > to the computer and I=99m wondering how others have gotten the 15 p in > d-sub connector through the firewall. I have removed the hood and > found they used a solder cup connector so I don=99t want to desolde r > the wires. It looks like I could turn the connector block sideways > and reduce the size the of hole required to let it pass through the > firewall but about the smallest I can squeeze the wires down to is > 1=9D. Then the problem is-where do I find a 1=9D snap bushing with a very > large ID?* > > * * > > *Albert Gardner* > > *Yuma, AZ* > Jim "Scooter" McGrew _http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew) . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: First Flight
Date: Mar 25, 2007
From: "Tom Deutsch" <deutscht(at)rhwhotels.com>
Made my First flight this weekend. 6 hours now and couldn't stop flying long enough to send this message. I fly professionally and have flown lots of neat aircraft over the last 40 years but this thing is just plain FUN!!!! No surprises, CHT's are higher than I like however should come down. Put wheel fairings on after the fourth hour and picked up 14 knots indicated at same alt and power setting. Wheel fairings did lower CHT's about 8-10* however now I need rudder trim. Tom Deutsch, #40545 QB Now Flying!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: First Flight
Date: Mar 25, 2007
From: "Tom Deutsch" <deutscht(at)rhwhotels.com>
Forgot to add I now have a good Bonanza for sale...cheap! Tom Deutsch ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Deutsch Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 1:53 PM Subject: RV10-List: First Flight Made my First flight this weekend. 6 hours now and couldn't stop flying long enough to send this message. I fly professionally and have flown lots of neat aircraft over the last 40 years but this thing is just plain FUN!!!! No surprises, CHT's are higher than I like however should come down. Put wheel fairings on after the fourth hour and picked up 14 knots indicated at same alt and power setting. Wheel fairings did lower CHT's about 8-10* however now I need rudder trim. Tom Deutsch, #40545 QB Now Flying!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: First Flight
Date: Mar 25, 2007
Congrats and thanks for the info. It makes the 8 hours I just put in seem a lot more important....I have been working on the main wheel fairings. Now if I can just get that panel finished. First flight expected by August. Please note I did not say what year... Rene' Felker 40322 N423CF 801-721-6080 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Deutsch Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 12:53 PM Subject: RV10-List: First Flight Made my First flight this weekend. 6 hours now and couldn't stop flying long enough to send this message. I fly professionally and have flown lots of neat aircraft over the last 40 years but this thing is just plain FUN!!!! No surprises, CHT's are higher than I like however should come down. Put wheel fairings on after the fourth hour and picked up 14 knots indicated at same alt and power setting. Wheel fairings did lower CHT's about 8-10* however now I need rudder trim. Tom Deutsch, #40545 QB Now Flying!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: Slick magneto harness question
Date: Mar 25, 2007
I have an I0540-C4B5 engine going on my RV-10 with a Slick 6393 magneto on the left side (lightspeed ignition on the right side). I need to get a Slick harness for the magneto. The book says I need a M2877, M6029, or a M6027 harness. My first question is how can you tell how long each of the wires are in the above mentioned harnesses? Is there a chart anywhere where you can tell the length of each wire in the harness? I looked on the Unison (useless) web site with no luck. My second question is that I cannot seem to find any of those harnesses anywhere for sale (at least online). Are these old numbers and there are newer ones that replaced it? My last question: Does anyone else have a similar set up, and if so, what harness are you using on the left side? Do the wires route nicely, or are there some that are a bit longer and need to be doubled over to get the correct length? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks -Mike Kraus RV-4 Flying RV-10 75% complete, 90% to go ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: RV-10 in southwest Michigan
Date: Mar 25, 2007
I live at 26W (Grass Lake, MI) just east of Jackson. My friend and I are building 2 RV-10's. His is within a month of flying, mine is a year or so away. You are welcome to fly in and look at the projects anytime. If you don't come visit, just go spend the money. You won't be disappointed. -Mike Kraus RV-4 Flying RV-10 Sheet metal complete -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Greenley Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 2:17 PM Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 in southwest Michigan I have almost decided to build an RV-10, but am planning on waiting for Oshkosh to start so that I have a chance to ride in one to make sure I am comfortable with it. Everything looks and sounds good, but it seems a little foolish to start such a project without ever having sat in a 10. Is there any chance anyone will be in Southwest Michigan (C91) in the next few months. I would love a chance to see a 10 and maybe get started a few months sooner. Bill Greenley (wanting a change from my '56 172) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Mar 26, 2007
Subject: Flying RV10's
Congrats Tom. I may fly down to KC to see it sometime..........need to see Ray's plane again and check the progress Bryan has made on his RV7 i n Gardner too. After reading about Tom D. getting his plane in the air this weekend I w ent to the FLYING RV10 page and there are still only 27-29 photos listed . It got me wondering of all the RV10's flying to date.........how many have been COMPLETED(all parts done/wheel pants installed/painted) AND were built by the person/people flying them around showing them off(whic h we all need to do proudly everywhere we fly)? Curious, DEAN 40449 (acid etch with gloves and goggles to avoid pain!) ________________________________________________________________________ Interested in getting caught up on today's news? Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines. http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/f ront.htm?csp=24
Congrats Tom. I may fly down to KC to see it sometime.... ......need to see Ray's plane again and check the progress Bryan has mad e on his RV7 in Gardner too.

After reading about Tom D. getting his plane in the air this weekend I went to the FLYING RV10 page and there are still only 27-29 photos lis ted. It got me wondering of all the RV10's flying to date......... how many have been COMPLETED(all parts done/wheel pants installed/painte d)

AND

were built by the person/people flying them around showing them off(w hich we all need to do proudly everywhere we fly)?

Curious,

DEAN 40449 (acid etch with gloves and goggles to avoid pain!)

______________________ __________________________________________________
Interested in getting caught up on today's news?
Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines.

________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Spray Lat
They don't list Spray Lat, but they do list this: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/discoat4220plexiglass.php I've been using it on my windows install http://deemsrv10.com/45-18s1.htm More pictures here http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2045%20Cabin%20Doors%20and%20Transparancies/slides/DSC04323.html Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Cal Hoffman wrote: > Aircraft Spruce is no longer listing Spray Lat for sale. Any other > suppliers?? > > Cal Hoffman > > * > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)suddenlink.net>
Subject: Re: First Flight
Date: Mar 26, 2007
Congratulations from a Texan and RV-10 builder. My online buddy, Mark Ritter told you welcome to the 50 or so flying RV-10's but according to Van's website there are 70 or more by now. Be sure and send in a posting with a picture to Doug Reeves to get on his first 100 flying RV-10 page. http://www.vansairforce.net/rv10.htm Russ Daves N710RV - #40044 First Flight 7/28/06 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)suddenlink.net>
Subject: RV-10 in southwest Michigan
Date: Mar 26, 2007
In response to Bill's comment that: I have almost decided to build an RV-10, but am planning on waiting for Oshkosh to start ... it seems a little foolish to start such a project without ever having sat in a 10. Well just call me foolish!!!! I wrote out a check to Van's for the RV-10 Emp. the middle of July, 2003 and gave it to my buddy Terry Cole (deceased RV-6A Builder) to take with him to Osh2003 and personally deliver to Van (I had an inside contact in Oregon who let me know the price that was going to be posted for the Emp. kit at Osh2003). At that time the only people who had sit in a -10 were the Van's folks who had just finished testing flying the first prototype. Having now over 100 hours on my RV-10 and having owned 3 C-182's, a C-177, and a Bellanca Super Viking you cannot go wrong with an RV-10. Russ Daves N710RV - First flight 7/28/06 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Slick magneto harness question
Date: Mar 26, 2007
From: "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com>
Mike: I can't answer the first part of your question, but I can the second. The Unison harnesses have a left side and right side part number independent of the whole part number. The two sided harness part number is probably something like a M6014. Unfortunately, you won't have much luck finding just a left or right side harness. No distributors that I'm aware of carry them in stock, and Unison has something like a 60 day lead time. If you need it right away, you'll have to order a whole harness and then use only the left hand side. Rhonda ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kraus Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 9:51 PM Subject: RV10-List: Slick magneto harness question I have an I0540-C4B5 engine going on my RV-10 with a Slick 6393 magneto on the left side (lightspeed ignition on the right side). I need to get a Slick harness for the magneto. The book says I need a M2877, M6029, or a M6027 harness. My first question is how can you tell how long each of the wires are in the above mentioned harnesses? Is there a chart anywhere where you can tell the length of each wire in the harness? I looked on the Unison (useless) web site with no luck. My second question is that I cannot seem to find any of those harnesses anywhere for sale (at least online). Are these old numbers and there are newer ones that replaced it? My last question: Does anyone else have a similar set up, and if so, what harness are you using on the left side? Do the wires route nicely, or are there some that are a bit longer and need to be doubled over to get the correct length? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks -Mike Kraus RV-4 Flying RV-10 75% complete, 90% to go ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: First Flight
Date: Mar 26, 2007
First of all, congratulations! This is exciting news. Second of all, what type of Bonanza and how much. It'll be several more years before I get my -10 done and I've been looking for a ride until then. John Jessen 40328 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Deutsch Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 12:13 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: First Flight Forgot to add I now have a good Bonanza for sale.cheap! Tom Deutsch _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Deutsch Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 1:53 PM Subject: RV10-List: First Flight Made my First flight this weekend. 6 hours now and couldn't stop flying long enough to send this message. I fly professionally and have flown lots of neat aircraft over the last 40 years but this thing is just plain FUN!!!! No surprises, CHT's are higher than I like however should come down. Put wheel fairings on after the fourth hour and picked up 14 knots indicated at same alt and power setting. Wheel fairings did lower CHT's about 8-10* however now I need rudder trim. Tom Deutsch, #40545 QB Now Flying!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2007
From: "Rick Leach" <papadaddyo(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: First Flight
Congratulations Tom. I' still working. How much for the Bonanza? Rick Leach 40397 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Deutsch Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 2:53 PM Subject: RV10-List: First Flight Made my First flight this weekend. 6 hours now and couldn't stop flying long enough to send this message. I fly professionally and have flown lots of neat aircraft over the last 40 years but this thing is just plain FUN!!!! No surprises, CHT's are higher than I like however should come down. Put wheel fairings on after the fourth hour and picked up 14 knots indicated at same alt and power setting. Wheel fairings did lower CHT's about 8-10* however now I need rudder trim. Tom Deutsch, #40545 QB Now Flying!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: FW: LycomingEngines-List: New Hartzell 3 blade for sale
Date: Mar 26, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Here is a post a few of you builders might find of value. John ________________________________ From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Williams Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 2:08 PM Subject: LycomingEngines-List: New Hartzell 3 blade for sale I have a "0" time, Lycoming application, Hartzell 3 blade prop, spinner and governor for sale. Steve Williams 505.344.3232 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2007
From: "Rick Leach" <papadaddyo(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: First Flight
Congratulations Tom. Can't wait to fly mine in a 100 years or so. How much for the Bonanza Rick Leach 40397 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Deutsch Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 3:13 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: First Flight Forgot to add I now have a good Bonanza for sale.cheap! Tom Deutsch _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Deutsch Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 1:53 PM Subject: RV10-List: First Flight Made my First flight this weekend. 6 hours now and couldn't stop flying long enough to send this message. I fly professionally and have flown lots of neat aircraft over the last 40 years but this thing is just plain FUN!!!! No surprises, CHT's are higher than I like however should come down. Put wheel fairings on after the fourth hour and picked up 14 knots indicated at same alt and power setting. Wheel fairings did lower CHT's about 8-10* however now I need rudder trim. Tom Deutsch, #40545 QB Now Flying!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cal Hoffman" <cehoffman(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Spray Lat
Date: Mar 26, 2007
Thanks, I put my order in today - Cal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 1:51 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Spray Lat .> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2007
From: Sam Marlow <sam(at)fr8dog.net>
Subject: Re: Slick magneto harness question
Try Wagaero, I think that's where I got mine. Sam Marlow Rhonda Bewley wrote: > > Mike: > > I cant answer the first part of your question, but I can the second. > The Unison harnesses have a left side and right side part number > independent of the whole part number. The two sided harness part > number is probably something like a M6014. Unfortunately, you wont > have much luck finding just a left or right side harness. No > distributors that Im aware of carry them in stock, and Unison has > something like a 60 day lead time. If you need it right away, youll > have to order a whole harness and then use only the left hand side. > > //Rhonda// > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Kraus > *Sent:* Sunday, March 25, 2007 9:51 PM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Slick magneto harness question > > I have an I0540-C4B5 engine going on my RV-10 with a Slick 6393 > magneto on the left side (lightspeed ignition on the right side). I > need to get a Slick harness for the magneto. The book says I need a > M2877, M6029, or a M6027 harness. > > My first question is how can you tell how long each of the wires are > in the above mentioned harnesses? Is there a chart anywhere where you > can tell the length of each wire in the harness? I looked on the > Unison (useless) web site with no luck. > > My second question is that I cannot seem to find any of those > harnesses anywhere for sale (at least online). Are these old numbers > and there are newer ones that replaced it? > > My last question: Does anyone else have a similar set up, and if so, > what harness are you using on the left side? Do the wires route > nicely, or are there some that are a bit longer and need to be doubled > over to get the correct length? > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks > > -Mike Kraus > > RV-4 Flying > > RV-10 75% complete, 90% to go > > * * > * * > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > * * > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2007
From: "Rick Leach" <papadaddyo(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Battery question
I'm thinking of going with the odyssey 680 for my battery choice. I thought about the 925 but I live in Florida and will generally not be where it gets meat locker cold (thin skin). Any thoughts on if this should be adequate for me? I will more than likely have a full electric IFR panel with dual electronic ignition. Tim, don't you have a backup system under your seats with several smaller batteries in series? Rick Leach 40397 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2007
From: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu>
Subject: Re: Slick magneto harness question
I had a similar situation, except I used a Bendix mag. I ordered a 1/2 harness from Skytronics, El Segundo CA, 310-322-6284 or 1-800-421-6846. I ordered through Aircraft Spruce. They had me contact Skytronics via phone to make sure the details were right. Cost was $98 including shipping. I'd recommend you call Skytronics with your situation and see what they say. If nothing else, you can run string from your spark plugs to your mag to estimate the required length of each lead. Interesting note on customer service... somehow Skytronics sent me a right half harness rather than a left half harness. ACS and Skytronics corrected the problem with no hassles, even though it was a custom job (they had made my harness to order). Tim -- Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) RV-6A N47TD -- 850 hrs RV-10 #40059 under construction Mike Kraus wrote: > I have an I0540-C4B5 engine going on my RV-10 with a Slick 6393 > magneto on the left side (lightspeed ignition on the right side). I > need to get a Slick harness for the magneto. The book says I need a > M2877, M6029, or a M6027 harness. > > My first question is how can you tell how long each of the wires are > in the above mentioned harnesses? Is there a chart anywhere where you > can tell the length of each wire in the harness? I looked on the > Unison (useless) web site with no luck. > > My second question is that I cannot seem to find any of those > harnesses anywhere for sale (at least online). Are these old numbers > and there are newer ones that replaced it? > > My last question: Does anyone else have a similar set up, and if so, > what harness are you using on the left side? Do the wires route > nicely, or are there some that are a bit longer and need to be doubled > over to get the correct length? > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks > -Mike Kraus > RV-4 Flying > RV-10 75% complete, 90% to go > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2007
From: Niko <owl40188(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Gretz Heated Pitot Mount
David, I have the Gretz tube mounted in the same bay as you. I bolted the electronic control module on to the spar web in the outboard most bay. This way its easy to access it and connect the wiring. Niko 40188 ----- Original Message ---- From: "dmaib(at)mac.com" <dmaib(at)mac.com> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 8:21:28 AM Subject: RV10-List: Gretz Heated Pitot Mount I am thinking about the installation of my Gretz pitot and have some questions. I have installed the mount in the 2nd from the tip bay as others have done and suggested by Gretz as the optimum location. I am curious about future access to the electronic control module. It has to be fairly close to the tube and I am wondering where others are mounting it. Has anyone put an additional access panel in the wing in that area? [Question] -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102613#102613 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Flutter at altitude
Date: Mar 27, 2007
Most of you are probably watching the TAS / IAS flutter thread on the generic RV Matronics site. Some of you have already weighed in. My question for RV-10 flyers, has anyone come up with a "at altitude IAS speed limitation" chart? Is anyone thinking about such? In essence, IAS Vne for 10k, 12k, 14k, 16k, 18k? John (how in the heck did you guys rivet the spar to the trim tabs) Jessen #40328 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2007
From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net>
Subject: Re: Flutter at altitude
Hello John, we do some test flights here in Switzerland and have also to approach Vne for that. Following is our test sheet for that: Altitude (ft) Vne (1) Faktor (2) 4000 0.9419 6000 0.9142 8000 0.8865 10000 0.8593 12000 0.8325 14000 0.8061 16000 0.7802 and your Vne calculates Vne on SL (1) * by Factor (2) John Jessen wrote: > Most of you are probably watching the TAS / IAS flutter thread on the > generic RV Matronics site. Some of you have already weighed in. My > question for RV-10 flyers, has anyone come up with a "at altitude IAS > speed limitation" chart? Is anyone thinking about such? In essence, > IAS Vne for 10k, 12k, 14k, 16k, 18k? > > John (how in the heck did you guys rivet the spar to the trim tabs) Jessen > #40328 > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Flutter at altitude
Date: Mar 27, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
I waste too much time now on eight other dissimilar sites, but I can surmise the discussion must be interesting. Ken Scott rehashed his ole RVator article to get into Kitplanes as a contributing author. Few readers have noticed that Ken and VANS is deeply concerned (more than any other kit company) on Flutter. With 5,000 flying... they should know. Let's see 71 out of 5000, that is less than 2% and our RV-10s are considerably heavier, more powerful with more useful load. I conclude they are a different cat all together. Is Ken warning us of a design flaw(s)? Could it be weight reduction issues based on a reduced rib count, thin skin or flimsy design? I think not. but Chicken Little sure has me looking to the sky for falling parts. Most RV-10 Builders would rather give up an arm than stop drinking the Kool aid and research such a possibility. I am pursuing with several Aeronautical Engineers who write regular stories, what things can be improved on the RV-10 to reduce the risk of Flutter and allow greater actual (IAS at the service ceiling) airspeeds like many other kit built aircraft. I still don't know how we did it in WWII with fabric covered control surfaces. I understand clearly that the Lurkers are now scurrying to VAN to report such blasphemy but I was reflecting that just this morning - In the last three years, little has been done to improve the written instructions, address the known issues brought by this group and any indication that the existing product could ever be improved upon. I think VAN needs a panel of builders who have built and now fly the 10 to guide such an improvement process. Re-reading about flutter just get's my heart jumping like a butterfly. All of the benefits I have seen have been through open minds, open discussion, sharing of build techniques and those willing to stick their necks out to improve the final quality of a Great kit - the RV-10. How many have recently viewed Dan's site for total accidents and studied the NTSB reports on those that were fatals? It is a sick thought... just like Flutter and just a valuable. I for one declare the Kitplane article - clear propaganda and challenge the other kit component manufacturers sitting on VANS 51% Rewrite Committee to fess up they are placing their owners at risk with speeds greater than our beloved RV-10s. They don't have 5,000 flying, they don't discuss flutter and they should as well. With the understanding can come an increase in design improvement with speed, altitude and economy to boot. It sure got attention though. Could I have another glass, please? I'll go back to reading the instructions or taking a long nap now. John C. PS - John, no one has placed a price on that cheap Beech of Tom's, so if you are interested, I have a 50% interest in a Beech A-36 to get you through the build process at Lenhardt's Airpark. ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:28 AM Subject: RV10-List: Flutter at altitude Most of you are probably watching the TAS / IAS flutter thread on the generic RV Matronics site. Some of you have already weighed in. My question for RV-10 flyers, has anyone come up with a "at altitude IAS speed limitation" chart? Is anyone thinking about such? In essence, IAS Vne for 10k, 12k, 14k, 16k, 18k? John (how in the heck did you guys rivet the spar to the trim tabs) Jessen #40328 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Flutter at altitude
Date: Mar 27, 2007
From: "Tom Deutsch" <deutscht(at)rhwhotels.com>
Tom's Bonanza price is $58,000 Tom Deutsch #40545 Office 913 451-1222 Fax 913 451-6493 Cell 913 908-7752 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 2:21 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flutter at altitude I waste too much time now on eight other dissimilar sites, but I can surmise the discussion must be interesting. Ken Scott rehashed his ole RVator article to get into Kitplanes as a contributing author. Few readers have noticed that Ken and VANS is deeply concerned (more than any other kit company) on Flutter. With 5,000 flying... they should know. Let's see 71 out of 5000, that is less than 2% and our RV-10s are considerably heavier, more powerful with more useful load. I conclude they are a different cat all together. Is Ken warning us of a design flaw(s)? Could it be weight reduction issues based on a reduced rib count, thin skin or flimsy design? I think not. but Chicken Little sure has me looking to the sky for falling parts. Most RV-10 Builders would rather give up an arm than stop drinking the Kool aid and research such a possibility. I am pursuing with several Aeronautical Engineers who write regular stories, what things can be improved on the RV-10 to reduce the risk of Flutter and allow greater actual (IAS at the service ceiling) airspeeds like many other kit built aircraft. I still don't know how we did it in WWII with fabric covered control surfaces. I understand clearly that the Lurkers are now scurrying to VAN to report such blasphemy but I was reflecting that just this morning - In the last three years, little has been done to improve the written instructions, address the known issues brought by this group and any indication that the existing product could ever be improved upon. I think VAN needs a panel of builders who have built and now fly the 10 to guide such an improvement process. Re-reading about flutter just get's my heart jumping like a butterfly. All of the benefits I have seen have been through open minds, open discussion, sharing of build techniques and those willing to stick their necks out to improve the final quality of a Great kit - the RV-10. How many have recently viewed Dan's site for total accidents and studied the NTSB reports on those that were fatals? It is a sick thought... just like Flutter and just a valuable. I for one declare the Kitplane article - clear propaganda and challenge the other kit component manufacturers sitting on VANS 51% Rewrite Committee to fess up they are placing their owners at risk with speeds greater than our beloved RV-10s. They don't have 5,000 flying, they don't discuss flutter and they should as well. With the understanding can come an increase in design improvement with speed, altitude and economy to boot. It sure got attention though. Could I have another glass, please? I'll go back to reading the instructions or taking a long nap now. John C. PS - John, no one has placed a price on that cheap Beech of Tom's, so if you are interested, I have a 50% interest in a Beech A-36 to get you through the build process at Lenhardt's Airpark. ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:28 AM Subject: RV10-List: Flutter at altitude Most of you are probably watching the TAS / IAS flutter thread on the generic RV Matronics site. Some of you have already weighed in. My question for RV-10 flyers, has anyone come up with a "at altitude IAS speed limitation" chart? Is anyone thinking about such? In essence, IAS Vne for 10k, 12k, 14k, 16k, 18k? John (how in the heck did you guys rivet the spar to the trim tabs) Jessen #40328 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List> http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "KiloPapa" <kilopapa(at)antelecom.net>
Subject: Re: Good Test of cockpit lighting/Defrost Fans with Night
IFR De
Date: Mar 27, 2007
Here is an article on Flight Deck Lighting with some background on who uses what. http://208.37.5.10/hf/hf_sept-oct03.pdf Kevin 40494 tail/empennage > > Tim > > Great info on your cockpit lighting and good timing as I am making those > decisions now for my panel. I recently posed the question of red versus > blue lighting to a friend who is an ophthalmologist, long time pilot with > 6 planes ( C421, C185 on floats, C150, Pitts, Fuqua jet, Eclipse vlj on > order. Must be tough staying current in all his toys.) Without getting > into a discussion of photoreceptors and how the eye works, his response is > "if you are primarily interested in seeing outside the cockpit go with red > lights. If you are more concerned about reading maps, charts, etc in the > cockpit go with blue lighting." He uses only blue. > > Jim Berry > 40482 Finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: FW: Jack photos
Date: Mar 28, 2007
_____ From: Gary Specketer [mailto:gspecketer(at)hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 8:38 AM Subject: FW: Jack photos Here are some pictures of a simple jack. It can be carried on the plane and weighs only a few ounces. It consists of a 24" cable that is dropped between the break disc and the wheel pant mounting plate. For your home base you can get fancier for the blocks and lever, but this loop allows you to have it with the plane at all times. Gary <http://graphics.hotmail.com/emsmile.gif> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Flying to Tucson
I'm going to be flying to Tucson this afternoon if I can get a break in this weather, if not I will be going down tomorrow. I will be at Tucson International until Sunday. I know the last time I came down there were a few that wanted to know. I am planning on parking at Premier Aviation right now. If anyone building wanted to come by and check the plane out for any reason let me know I'm sure I could arrange it. Right now it is snowing outside my office window. Not the answer I was looking for from the weather gods today. Who makes that icing package for the -10 again? Feel free to call my cell phone anytime this week or text me. Scott Schmidt Tronco Energy Office 801-990-1252 Cell 801-718-1277 Fax 801-990-1256 scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: "James K Hovis" <james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Flutter at altitude
John, I am an aerospace engineer (work for a large midwestern producer of many types of aircraft that'll remain nameless at this time...) and as you know I've been lurking and commenting on this issue every once in a while. Part 23.629 covers flutter for certifying small aircraft. In that subpart, you have several methods to show compliance, mainly either flight testing and ground vibration testing or analysis by a few methods. One is compliance with Engineering Report No. 45 if the Vd is less than 260 kts. I can't find that report on line to see what's entailed. Testing and analysis has to show the airframe free of flutter up to a speed of equal to Vd. Structural stiffness and mass balance of control surfaces affect flutter limits more than anything. Looking at the overall design of the RV-10, it is very similar to other aircraft that have been shown to be free from flutter within speed ranges similar to RV-10 limits (statistical analysis). Also, Appendix A of part 23 gives some simplified formulas for compliance on conventional light aircraft under 6,000#, which the RV-10 definitly fits within. Speeds to be used for the V-n diagram are given based on w/s and load factor. A minimum Vd can be calculated as 24 * sqrt(n1 *(w/s)) in kts. This is 199.83 kts and 230 mph plugging in 3.8g for n1 and the Van's gross w/s. Bottom line is the Feds want you to show that your airframe is free from flutter up to a certain speed based on w/s and load factor. You can test for higher speeds if you wish, but a conservative approach is to keep the speed close to the required minimum. Kevin Hovis. On 3/27/07, John W. Cox wrote: > I waste too much time now on eight other dissimilar sites, but I can > surmise the discussion must be interesting. > > > Ken Scott rehashed his ole RVator article to get into Kitplanes as a > contributing author. Few readers have noticed that Ken and VANS is > deeply concerned (more than any other kit company) on Flutter. With > 5,000 flying... they should know. Let's see 71 out of 5000, that is > less than 2% and our RV-10s are considerably heavier, more powerful with > more useful load. I conclude they are a different cat all together. Is > Ken warning us of a design flaw(s)? Could it be weight reduction issues > based on a reduced rib count, thin skin or flimsy design? I think not. > but Chicken Little sure has me looking to the sky for falling parts. > Most RV-10 Builders would rather give up an arm than stop drinking the > Kool aid and research such a possibility. > > > I am pursuing with several Aeronautical Engineers who write regular > stories, what things can be improved on the RV-10 to reduce the risk of > Flutter and allow greater actual (IAS at the service ceiling) airspeeds > like many other kit built aircraft. I still don't know how we did it in > WWII with fabric covered control surfaces. I understand clearly that the > Lurkers are now scurrying to VAN to report such blasphemy but I was > reflecting that just this morning - In the last three years, little has > been done to improve the written instructions, address the known issues > brought by this group and any indication that the existing product could > ever be improved upon. I think VAN needs a panel of builders who have > built and now fly the 10 to guide such an improvement process. > Re-reading about flutter just get's my heart jumping like a butterfly. > > > All of the benefits I have seen have been through open minds, open > discussion, sharing of build techniques and those willing to stick their > necks out to improve the final quality of a Great kit - the RV-10. How > many have recently viewed Dan's site for total accidents and studied the > NTSB reports on those that were fatals? It is a sick thought... just > like Flutter and just a valuable. > > > I for one declare the Kitplane article - clear propaganda and challenge > the other kit component manufacturers sitting on VANS 51% Rewrite > Committee to fess up they are placing their owners at risk with speeds > greater than our beloved RV-10s. They don't have 5,000 flying, they > don't discuss flutter and they should as well. With the understanding > can come an increase in design improvement with speed, altitude and > economy to boot. It sure got attention though. > > > Could I have another glass, please? I'll go back to reading the > instructions or taking a long nap now. > > > John C. > > > PS - John, no one has placed a price on that cheap Beech of Tom's, so if > you are interested, I have a 50% interest in a Beech A-36 to get you > through the build process at Lenhardt's Airpark. > > > ________________________________ > > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:28 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Flutter at altitude > > > Most of you are probably watching the TAS / IAS flutter thread on the > generic RV Matronics site. Some of you have already weighed in. My > question for RV-10 flyers, has anyone come up with a "at altitude IAS > speed limitation" chart? Is anyone thinking about such? In essence, > IAS Vne for 10k, 12k, 14k, 16k, 18k? > > > John (how in the heck did you guys rivet the spar to the trim tabs) > Jessen > > #40328 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: Phil White <philwhite9(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Flutter at altitude
Ran a quick Excel plot of the factors listed by Werner, and produced the following: RV-10 VNE speeds ALT IAS-mph 0 230.0 4 216.6 6 216.5 8 203.9 10 197.6 12 191.5 14 185.4 16 179.4 18 173.7 20 168.1 22 162.8 24 157.6 or print from the attached Excel file. Phil White #40220 (doors) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Flutter at altitude
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Timely and valuable insight - Bravo. A great example of the value of this list. For those still thinking that control surfaces don't need no stinking balancing. Contact Kevin for a professional's unbiased opinion. As an A&P it is always to be done without exception. It's done after manufacture, its done after paint, its done after a major repair or alteration. Now to get all of you the simple process as to how to balance a control surface. Just one of the steps to reduce the risks of flutter - Balanced control surfaces. Flaps, Ailerons, Elevator and Rudder. I don't need 260 knots, but I would love 200 knots at altitude and appreciate the meat (kernels of useful info) you have offered to go with the conversation of Flutter - now published twice. John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James K Hovis Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 9:10 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flutter at altitude John, I am an aerospace engineer (work for a large midwestern producer of many types of aircraft that'll remain nameless at this time...) and as you know I've been lurking and commenting on this issue every once in a while. Part 23.629 covers flutter for certifying small aircraft. In that subpart, you have several methods to show compliance, mainly either flight testing and ground vibration testing or analysis by a few methods. One is compliance with Engineering Report No. 45 if the Vd is less than 260 kts. I can't find that report on line to see what's entailed. Testing and analysis has to show the airframe free of flutter up to a speed of equal to Vd. Structural stiffness and mass balance of control surfaces affect flutter limits more than anything. Looking at the overall design of the RV-10, it is very similar to other aircraft that have been shown to be free from flutter within speed ranges similar to RV-10 limits (statistical analysis). Also, Appendix A of part 23 gives some simplified formulas for compliance on conventional light aircraft under 6,000#, which the RV-10 definitly fits within. Speeds to be used for the V-n diagram are given based on w/s and load factor. A minimum Vd can be calculated as 24 * sqrt(n1 *(w/s)) in kts. This is 199.83 kts and 230 mph plugging in 3.8g for n1 and the Van's gross w/s. Bottom line is the Feds want you to show that your airframe is free from flutter up to a certain speed based on w/s and load factor. You can test for higher speeds if you wish, but a conservative approach is to keep the speed close to the required minimum. Kevin Hovis. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2007
Subject: Re: Flying to Tucson
From: Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net>
Scott Schmidt wrote: > > Right now it is snowing outside my office window. Not the answer I was > looking for from the weather gods today. Who makes that icing package > for the -10 again? Here you go: <http://www.rddent.com/> RDDs primary systems are an electro-thermal airframe and prop de-icing system called Therm-X <http://www.rddent.com/products.html> and a highly-evolved redundant electrical system called Electri-X. Systems are currently available for Lancair models, with an RV-10 system nearing completion. -Dj ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: Robert Wright <flywrights(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Flutter at altitude
Sounds like we need to convice all of our EFIS manufacturers to write a software update calculating a "barber pole" for the higher altitude TASs at DA. Rob Wright #392 Fuse - need to paint the interior soon - getting hot! ----- Original Message ---- From: James K Hovis <james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 11:10:25 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flutter at altitude John, I am an aerospace engineer (work for a large midwestern producer of many types of aircraft that'll remain nameless at this time...) and as you know I've been lurking and commenting on this issue every once in a while. Part 23.629 covers flutter for certifying small aircraft. In that subpart, you have several methods to show compliance, mainly either flight testing and ground vibration testing or analysis by a few methods. One is compliance with Engineering Report No. 45 if the Vd is less than 260 kts. I can't find that report on line to see what's entailed. Testing and analysis has to show the airframe free of flutter up to a speed of equal to Vd. Structural stiffness and mass balance of control surfaces affect flutter limits more than anything. Looking at the overall design of the RV-10, it is very similar to other aircraft that have been shown to be free from flutter within speed ranges similar to RV-10 limits (statistical analysis). Also, Appendix A of part 23 gives some simplified formulas for compliance on conventional light aircraft under 6,000#, which the RV-10 definitly fits within. Speeds to be used for the V-n diagram are given based on w/s and load factor. A minimum Vd can be calculated as 24 * sqrt(n1 *(w/s)) in kts. This is 199.83 kts and 230 mph plugging in 3.8g for n1 and the Van's gross w/s. Bottom line is the Feds want you to show that your airframe is free from flutter up to a certain speed based on w/s and load factor. You can test for higher speeds if you wish, but a conservative approach is to keep the speed close to the required minimum. Kevin Hovis. On 3/27/07, John W. Cox wrote: > I waste too much time now on eight other dissimilar sites, but I can > surmise the discussion must be interesting. > > > Ken Scott rehashed his ole RVator article to get into Kitplanes as a > contributing author. Few readers have noticed that Ken and VANS is > deeply concerned (more than any other kit company) on Flutter. With > 5,000 flying... they should know. Let's see 71 out of 5000, that is > less than 2% and our RV-10s are considerably heavier, more powerful with > more useful load. I conclude they are a different cat all together. Is > Ken warning us of a design flaw(s)? Could it be weight reduction issues > based on a reduced rib count, thin skin or flimsy design? I think not. > but Chicken Little sure has me looking to the sky for falling parts. > Most RV-10 Builders would rather give up an arm than stop drinking the > Kool aid and research such a possibility. > > > I am pursuing with several Aeronautical Engineers who write regular > stories, what things can be improved on the RV-10 to reduce the risk of > Flutter and allow greater actual (IAS at the service ceiling) airspeeds > like many other kit built aircraft. I still don't know how we did it in > WWII with fabric covered control surfaces. I understand clearly that the > Lurkers are now scurrying to VAN to report such blasphemy but I was > reflecting that just this morning - In the last three years, little has > been done to improve the written instructions, address the known issues > brought by this group and any indication that the existing product could > ever be improved upon. I think VAN needs a panel of builders who have > built and now fly the 10 to guide such an improvement process. > Re-reading about flutter just get's my heart jumping like a butterfly. > > > All of the benefits I have seen have been through open minds, open > discussion, sharing of build techniques and those willing to stick their > necks out to improve the final quality of a Great kit - the RV-10. How > many have recently viewed Dan's site for total accidents and studied the > NTSB reports on those that were fatals? It is a sick thought... just > like Flutter and just a valuable. > > > I for one declare the Kitplane article - clear propaganda and challenge > the other kit component manufacturers sitting on VANS 51% Rewrite > Committee to fess up they are placing their owners at risk with speeds > greater than our beloved RV-10s. They don't have 5,000 flying, they > don't discuss flutter and they should as well. With the understanding > can come an increase in design improvement with speed, altitude and > economy to boot. It sure got attention though. > > > Could I have another glass, please? I'll go back to reading the > instructions or taking a long nap now. > > > John C. > > > PS - John, no one has placed a price on that cheap Beech of Tom's, so if > you are interested, I have a 50% interest in a Beech A-36 to get you > through the build process at Lenhardt's Airpark. > > > ________________________________ > > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:28 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Flutter at altitude > > > Most of you are probably watching the TAS / IAS flutter thread on the > generic RV Matronics site. Some of you have already weighed in. My > question for RV-10 flyers, has anyone come up with a "at altitude IAS > speed limitation" chart? Is anyone thinking about such? In essence, > IAS Vne for 10k, 12k, 14k, 16k, 18k? > > > John (how in the heck did you guys rivet the spar to the trim tabs) > Jessen > > #40328 > > Get your own web address. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rtitsworth" <rtitsworth(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Interior paint!
Date: Mar 28, 2007
Got any photo? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 6:58 PM As for painting the interior, just want to let you all know that I painted my interior with Zolatone using two different colors and the results were quite nice. The tunnel cover, the aft wall and the roof will be a different color than the rest. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Interior paint!
Date: Mar 28, 2007
I'll shot some off from the office tomorrow. I have dial up here at home...no other options other than satallite. My best buddy's parents who live in a small mountain town outside of Beruit, Lebanon have high speed and I can't get it here in the Santa Monica mountains outside of Los Angeles. JOhn G. >From: "rtitsworth" <rtitsworth(at)mindspring.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior paint! >Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 21:09:29 -0400 > > >Got any photo? > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez >Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 6:58 PM > > >As for painting the interior, just want to let you all know that I painted >my interior with Zolatone using two different colors and the results were >quite nice. The tunnel cover, the aft wall and the roof will be a different >color than the rest. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Interior paint!
Date: Mar 29, 2007
HERE ARE SOME PHOTOS OF INTERIOR PAINT...ZOLATONE >From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior paint! >Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 20:39:22 -0700 > > >I'll shot some off from the office tomorrow. I have dial up here at >home...no other options other than satallite. My best buddy's parents who >live in a small mountain town outside of Beruit, Lebanon have high speed >and I can't get it here in the Santa Monica mountains outside of Los >Angeles. > >JOhn G. > > >>From: "rtitsworth" <rtitsworth(at)mindspring.com> >>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>To: >>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior paint! >>Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 21:09:29 -0400 >> >> >>Got any photo? >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez >>Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 6:58 PM >> >> >>As for painting the interior, just want to let you all know that I painted >>my interior with Zolatone using two different colors and the results were >>quite nice. The tunnel cover, the aft wall and the roof will be a >>different >>color than the rest. >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Pics of Dual battery tray
Date: Mar 29, 2007
I spent a fair amount of time putting this thing together, a surprising amount of time. It was acutally more complex than it looks. JOhn G. 409 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 29, 2007
Subject: Re: TAS and Vne & Flutter at Altitude
I was told that the MU-2 has an airspeed indicator that shows the critical airspeed for that flight altitude. The critical airspeed is shown as a moving (red?) line on the IAS indicator. Another method I've heard of using is an indicated airspeed to a fairly low altitude like 10,000' and a limiting Mach number above that altitude. Part 23 identifies a maximum operating airspeed (Vmo) and a maximum operating Mach number (Mmo) as airspeed limits. Where Vmo is an IAS? And Mmo as a fixed Mach number is a varying TAS? (Mach 1 being about 760 knots TAS at sea level to about 660 knots TAS at 35,000?) The RMI Microencoder in my RV-3 can provide a Mach number readout. I haven't tried it, but if I remember correctly, I can input a set point for an audio alarm and/or flashing display to the Mach number. BTW, I estimated a limiting Mach number of about 0.26 for 230 mph TAS at 10,000'. Anyone have a better number? The Dynon D-10 & D-10A provides a TAS readout when their OAT is used. I understand that there is no provision at this time for an alarm on the TAS. Anyone have information on their flight system and the ability to set an alarm on TAS or Mach number? Regards, Jim Ayers ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: Niko <owl40188(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Lubon 404
Any substitutes for Lubon 404 on the brake fittings? Niko 40188 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: Bill DeRouchey <billderou(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: TAS and Vne & Flutter at Altitude
I communicated with John Cox earlier in the week on this same subject. My air data computer is providing accurate numbers [OAT, IAS, Palt] and with the proper formulas could provide the pilot with information to fly right on Vne. My assumption here was that Vans margins far exceed the sum of my errors. However, this brings up several issues that need to be addressed first: 1) Is it safe to fly at Vne? This needs to be answered by Vans and other aerospace engineers. 2) Is it safe to fly through turbulence at Vne? I know its the turbulence that kicks off the flutter but need to ask the question. Are there maximum stick forces that cannot be exceeded when recovering from this turbulence? Would the autopilot exceed these forces? 3) What is the true significance of the IAS red area? 4) Assuming its safe to fly at Vne, what are the resonable HP increases or turbo increases that make good engineering sense for the RV-10? 5) Up to now I have not been a proponent to logging PFD data to a flash file that could be used after an accident by the NTSB or lawyers. However, if we are going to help our pilots fly at Vne then it would make sense to log all information so we could learn should something go very wrong. In general, I have mixed emotions about helping the pilots boost the horsepower and fly at Vne unless it can be accomplished safely. Bill DeRouchey WTDAviationTechnology N939SB, flying slowly at 196mph TAS bill(at)wtdaviationtechnology.com LessDragProd(at)aol.com wrote: I was told that the MU-2 has an airspeed indicator that shows the critical airspeed for that flight altitude. The critical airspeed is shown as a moving (red?) line on the IAS indicator. Another method I've heard of using is an indicated airspeed to a fairly low altitude like 10,000' and a limiting Mach number above that altitude. Part 23 identifies a maximum operating airspeed (Vmo) and a maximum operating Mach number (Mmo) as airspeed limits. Where Vmo is an IAS? And Mmo as a fixed Mach number is a varying TAS? (Mach 1 being about 760 knots TAS at sea level to about 660 knots TAS at 35,000?) The RMI Microencoder in my RV-3 can provide a Mach number readout. I haven't tried it, but if I remember correctly, I can input a set point for an audio alarm and/or flashing display to the Mach number. BTW, I estimated a limiting Mach number of about 0.26 for 230 mph TAS at 10,000'. Anyone have a better number? The Dynon D-10 & D-10A provides a TAS readout when their OAT is used. I understand that there is no provision at this time for an alarm on the TAS. Anyone have information on their flight system and the ability to set an alarm on TAS or Mach number? Regards, Jim Ayers --------------------------------- See what's free at AOL.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Comant installation question
For those of you who attached Comant antennas on the fuse underside... Where exactly did you rivet your Comant doublers beneath the rear seats? The 2nd bay in or really in the outboard-most bay? Did you install the doublers and wire up the antennas and then rivet in the floor or did you save the floor final attach for later? I'm thinking I'll bugger up the antennas if I put 'em on now and close up the floors. Anyone have any photos of the actual installation? Thanks in advance, Jay TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Comant installation question
I've got photos of what I did for my 6A...It's underneath the right seat. Since I nutplated in the seatbottom, I decided to make the antenna removable, dimpled the attach screw holes and made a second plate to cover the center hole. Zap me direct...... -----Original Message----- >From: Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> >Sent: Mar 29, 2007 3:16 PM >To: RV10 >Subject: RV10-List: Comant installation question > > >For those of you who attached Comant antennas on the fuse underside... > >Where exactly did you rivet your Comant doublers beneath the rear seats? The >2nd bay in or really in the outboard-most bay? Did you install the doublers and >wire up the antennas and then rivet in the floor or did you save the floor >final attach for later? I'm thinking I'll bugger up the antennas if I put 'em >on now and close up the floors. > >Anyone have any photos of the actual installation? > >Thanks in advance, >Jay > > > >TV dinner still cooling? >Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. >http://tv.yahoo.com/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Interior paint! - Zolatone
Here are some links for Zolatone <http://www.autobodysupply.net/Zolatonecolors.htm> <http://www.zolatoneaim.com/index.html> And a photo of Lancair RG Legacy interior painted with Zolatone <http://legacyfg.jconserv.net/viewtopic.php?t=11&highlight=zolatone> Larry Rosen #356 John Gonzalez wrote: > > I used the primer that Aircraft spruce sells, but there is some > confusion on the directions on the Zolatone web site as far as what > primer is used on aluminum versus ferious metals. There are > conflicting statements regarding aluminum. Mine was a quick build > fuselage and it appears that the Shermin Williams primer was > compartible with the zolatone because the Zolatone overspray appears > to have adherred quite well. I would test it without a primer if you > have been using the Sherwin William's product or have a Quick build. > Go to their web site for more information. > > No overcoat is necessary, it will also make any future repairs very easy. > > As you can see from the picture I did a real nice job of masking off > the areas that interact with the cabin top. It will be easy to spot > shoot and lapse in coverage. The cabin top has not been fitted. > > The cabin top will be the same black color as the aft wall and tunnel > cover. It is cool because it looks like fabric in that it is textured. > > Hope it give some people some options to think about. > > John G. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Comant installation question
Date: Mar 29, 2007
My antenna is beneath the baggage floor. I did the doubler, rivetted it in place but did not instal the antenna in. I have three access panels in the bagggage floor. one for the antenna, one for each of the side step bolts. In my case, anything down there is going to get wacked as I move it out of my building area. John >From: Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: RV10 >Subject: RV10-List: Comant installation question >Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 12:16:45 -0700 (PDT) > > >For those of you who attached Comant antennas on the fuse underside... > >Where exactly did you rivet your Comant doublers beneath the rear seats? >The >2nd bay in or really in the outboard-most bay? Did you install the doublers >and >wire up the antennas and then rivet in the floor or did you save the floor >final attach for later? I'm thinking I'll bugger up the antennas if I put >'em >on now and close up the floors. > >Anyone have any photos of the actual installation? > >Thanks in advance, >Jay > > >TV dinner still cooling? >Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. >http://tv.yahoo.com/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Comant installation question
Photos of how my antenna location and doublers are here <http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Construct/Log/Fuselage/ComAntennaDoubler/index.html> I fabricated an access panel above. On my next RV-10 build ;-) I would install it just forward of the rear seat, under the flap torque tube. Larry Rosen #356 Jay Brinkmeyer wrote: > > For those of you who attached Comant antennas on the fuse underside... > > Where exactly did you rivet your Comant doublers beneath the rear seats? The > 2nd bay in or really in the outboard-most bay? Did you install the doublers and > wire up the antennas and then rivet in the floor or did you save the floor > final attach for later? I'm thinking I'll bugger up the antennas if I put 'em > on now and close up the floors. > > Anyone have any photos of the actual installation? > > Thanks in advance, > Jay > > > > TV dinner still cooling? > Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. > http://tv.yahoo.com/ > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill & Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net>
Subject: Re: Pics of Dual battery tray
Date: Mar 29, 2007
You should put together a kit and sell it. I am going to do a dual battery tray and I'm not sure just yet how I will do it. Forgive my ignorance because I've not studied the battery tray and parts yet, but how many of the parts are already included in the tailcone kit and which ones did you fabricate??? Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 8:48 AM Subject: RV10-List: Pics of Dual battery tray >I spent a fair amount of time putting this thing together, a surprising > amount of time. It was acutally more complex than it looks. > > JOhn G. 409 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4:23 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kilopapa(at)antelecom.net
Subject: Interior paint!
Date: Mar 29, 2007
What type of spray gun/size tip did you use? Thanks, Kevin 40494 ----- Original Message Follows ----- From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> Subject: Spam:***********, RE: RV10-List: Interior paint! Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 07:42:00 -0700 >HERE ARE SOME PHOTOS OF INTERIOR PAINT...ZOLATONE ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kilopapa(at)antelecom.net
Subject: Re: Pics of Dual battery tray
Date: Mar 29, 2007
What 2 batteries is it designed for? Looks nice and strong. Kevin 40494 ----- Original Message Follows ----- From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> Subject: RV10-List: Pics of Dual battery tray Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 07:48:59 -0700 >I spent a fair amount of time putting this thing together, >a surprising amount of time. It was acutally more complex >than it looks. > >JOhn G. 409 > > >[Attachment: RV 10 013.jpg] >[Attachment: RV 10 015.jpg] >[Attachment: RV 10 017.jpg] >[Attachment: RV 10 022.jpg] >[Attachment: RV 10 024.jpg] >[Attachment: RV 10 027.jpg] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Lefever" <RoxIanMike(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Pics of Dual battery tray
Date: Mar 29, 2007
thanks. I may try this as it will help with CG a little. I was wondering if anyone had moved the battery back further into the tailcone to move the CG back further? I haven't calculated it on the 10 but I know this helped some on our smaller 6 and 8 kits. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Gonzalez<mailto:indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 7:48 AM Subject: RV10-List: Pics of Dual battery tray I spent a fair amount of time putting this thing together, a surprising amount of time. It was acutally more complex than it looks. JOhn G. 409 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Interior paint!
Date: Mar 29, 2007
Go to the Zolatone web site and they tell you to use a Binks 2001, with a big tip on it. I don't recal the number because I could not locate one easily so I used a gun which shoot ceramic glaze. John >From: kilopapa(at)antelecom.net >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV10-List: Interior paint! >Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 13:03:13 -0800 > > >What type of spray gun/size tip did you use? > >Thanks, > >Kevin >40494 > > >----- Original Message Follows ----- >From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Spam:***********, RE: RV10-List: Interior paint! >Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 07:42:00 -0700 > > >HERE ARE SOME PHOTOS OF INTERIOR PAINT...ZOLATONE > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Lefever" <RoxIanMike(at)msn.com>
Subject:
Date: Mar 29, 2007
FYI: If anyone has a large kit component like QB wings or fuse to ship from Van's to Arizona, now would be a good time to contact Tony Partain as he is putting together a load to bring my QB fuse to Chandler within the next 10 days. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Pics of Dual battery tray
Date: Mar 29, 2007
The batteries are odyssey PC625s, with a little knowledge you should be able to tell which engine these are used for. Don't want to start a new/revisited topic. As for the parts, the only thing that comes with the tail kit is the base and the bellcrank. No, I will not be kitting this...I think I would be making about three dollars and hour after buying the materials. JOhn G. >From: kilopapa(at)antelecom.net >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Pics of Dual battery tray >Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 13:05:49 -0800 > > >What 2 batteries is it designed for? Looks nice and strong. > >Kevin >40494 > >----- Original Message Follows ----- >From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: Pics of Dual battery tray >Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 07:48:59 -0700 > > >I spent a fair amount of time putting this thing together, > >a surprising amount of time. It was acutally more complex > >than it looks. > > > >JOhn G. 409 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[Attachment: RV 10 013.jpg] > >[Attachment: RV 10 015.jpg] > >[Attachment: RV 10 017.jpg] > >[Attachment: RV 10 022.jpg] > >[Attachment: RV 10 024.jpg] > >[Attachment: RV 10 027.jpg] > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: AFP Purge Valve Cable Connection
Date: Mar 29, 2007
I have a few ideas on how to route and connect the Airflow Performance Purge Valve cable but were wondering how others hooked it up? Does anyone have any pictures of the attachment of the purge valve cable to the valve? Thanks -Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: TAS and Vne & Flutter at Altitude
Date: Mar 30, 2007
Diagram attached this time. Anh ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "The McGough Family" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Garmin /Apollo SL 40 radio
Date: Mar 30, 2007
Has anyone used or had dramas with above radio as I am getting conflicting reports Chris ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: Matt Reeves <mattreeves(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Garmin /Apollo SL 40 radio
Awesome radio, cool that you can monitor one frequency while on another BUT, don't try to use the internal intercom feature - too complicated and is very UN-user friendly. Matt The McGough Family wrote: Has anyone used or had dramas with above radio as I am getting conflicting reports Chris --------------------------------- The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Battery and CG
Date: Mar 30, 2007
I feel like I am beating a dead horse, but this does come up every once in a while. I understand that some people want to fly this plane most of the time as if it were a 2-seat airplane. As such, it does ride very close to the forward CG, especially with full tanks. However, putting another battery in the back to help this "problem", IMHO, is very counterproductive. I realize that Van's put the first battery back there for most likely this very reason, but with the stock setup, the airplane flies fine throughout all CG configurations (light/forward CG or heavy/aft CG). If you mount a permanent battery aft of the baggage wall and want to fly the airplane like it was designed to fly (2700lbs), you better keep your speeds up, because if you stall and get into a spin, then good luck getting out of it. Would it not be easier, when flying light, to add some ballast in the baggage area or rear seat? It certainly doesn't make sense to have to add ballast under the cowling when you are flying heavy. All JMHO! Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Raving about a new tool
Last night I got to try a new tool that I bought. A couple weeks ago I went to visit SteinAir in their new building (well, new since I'd been there). Stein showed me some cool new stuff they sell, and I grabbed up a few items just based on the recommendation of Stein himself. The one I need to rave about is the "Wire Spoon". http://www.steinair.com/tools.htm I didn't know that this would be a big deal. I wired my entire plane without one. But last night I had to run a couple of wires through my existing bundles for some new lights, and I tried the spoon. 10 minutes later I was THOROUGHLY impressed and I had to call Stein and chew him out for not telling me about these things sooner. What a stinkin' bastage he was to let a good customer like me build an entire airplane without one of these babies. Anyway, apparently he only recently started selling them on a recommendation that people would find them useful. He's always looking for those useful things for the builders that he can offer. I'm just telling you today that if you're going to wire your own plane, you want one of these things. It will easily make a difference in how nicely you can feed wires into existing bundles. It's these little things that you can glean from Stein that makes him such a worthy business to support. -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Raving about a new tool
Date: Mar 30, 2007
Tim, What do you mean "through my existing bundles"? Do you mean through bundles that have been tie wrapped or through conduits with bundles loosely wired through it? Thanks On Mar 30, 2007, at 9:10 AM, Tim Olson wrote: > > Last night I got to try a new tool that I bought. A couple weeks > ago I went to visit SteinAir in their new building (well, new > since I'd been there). Stein showed me some cool new stuff they > sell, and I grabbed up a few items just based on the recommendation > of Stein himself. The one I need to rave about is the "Wire Spoon". > http://www.steinair.com/tools.htm > > I didn't know that this would be a big deal. I wired my entire plane > without one. But last night I had to run a couple of wires through > my existing bundles for some new lights, and I tried the spoon. > 10 minutes later I was THOROUGHLY impressed and I had to call > Stein and chew him out for not telling me about these things > sooner. What a stinkin' bastage he was to let a good customer > like me build an entire airplane without one of these babies. > > Anyway, apparently he only recently started selling them on a > recommendation that people would find them useful. He's always > looking for those useful things for the builders that he can offer. > I'm just telling you today that if you're going to wire your own > plane, > you want one of these things. It will easily make a difference in > how nicely you can feed wires into existing bundles. > > It's these little things that you can glean from Stein that makes > him such a worthy business to support. > > -- > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Battery and CG
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
I want to stress to people reading this, it is a very valid point and when adding dual batteries or any weight that far aft serious thought should be considered. I agree with Jesse that the best way to add and subtract weight is a collapsible water container. This way the pilot can add weight for situations and dump it on the ramp when it is not needed and store the flat container. What myself, John and others are talking about is making a dual battery tray to support a dual electrical system to ensure redundancy for an electrically dependant alternative engine install. What we are using for our dual batteries are PC 625 batteries. These only weigh 12-13 pounds a piece, and with the addition of the tray and dual contactors we are less than 1 pound difference of the original install made by Tim with a 925 . I made the decision to mount these at the original location of Vans battery tray because it works there for NOW. But I will stress, we have not done a weight and balance with an installed Eggenfellner package on a completed 10 yet. Mine will be the first and based on my equipage, we will make the determination for the final install location of the dual batteries, as these are the easiest items to move to balance the CG. I expect the W&B of the RV10E will be very close to matching the Lycoming install, but we will not know until I get the engine and cowl final installed. I just wanted to put this out there, so people can make the distinction between the Eggenfellner install versus trying to do a dual install for a lycoming. We are not talking about dual 925's as this would be over 50 pounds of batteries in an aft CG location, that would be permanent. Once again we are talking dual 625's. Dan N289DT _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 9:06 AM Subject: RV10-List: Battery and CG I feel like I am beating a dead horse, but this does come up every once in a while. I understand that some people want to fly this plane most of the time as if it were a 2-seat airplane. As such, it does ride very close to the forward CG, especially with full tanks. However, putting another battery in the back to help this "problem", IMHO, is very counterproductive. I realize that Van's put the first battery back there for most likely this very reason, but with the stock setup, the airplane flies fine throughout all CG configurations (light/forward CG or heavy/aft CG). If you mount a permanent battery aft of the baggage wall and want to fly the airplane like it was designed to fly (2700lbs), you better keep your speeds up, because if you stall and get into a spin, then good luck getting out of it. Would it not be easier, when flying light, to add some ballast in the baggage area or rear seat? It certainly doesn't make sense to have to add ballast under the cowling when you are flying heavy. All JMHO! Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: Sam Marlow <sam(at)fr8dog.net>
Subject: POM
Where do I start? Do one of you guys already flying have a source for a manual? Thanks, Sam Marlow ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: QB Wings
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Mar 30, 2007
Dave, I followed the designs of Tim and a few others. Here is a poor shot of mine. John -------- #40572 Empennage Assembly. N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103880#103880 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wingparts_128.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/qbwings_775.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: looong step tube
I'm a slow builder (really)... This photo shows what appears to be a one piece step tube in a quick build fuse. My steps consist of two short step tubes that are attached to the inboard rib. Anyone know what's up with the difference? http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Construct/Log/Fuselage/RemovTempInstall/slides/2005-07-17_RV10-097.html (Larry - thanks for the great photos!) Thanks, Jay Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jay Rowe" <jfrjr(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: looong step tube
Date: Mar 30, 2007
Jay: That's just a packing tube that comes with the QB fuse. Not sure why it is there, maybe to help secure the fuse in the shipping box. Anyway it is to be thrown away. Now that you are starting your QB fuse you will find a lot of things that have not been done. Look at Tim's site for lots of advice. You will find that you need to take a lot of the parts off the fuse before you even start. I would just remind you that you need to go through the plans step by step and don't try to skip ahead. Jay Rowe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Brinkmeyer" <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 11:30 AM Subject: RV10-List: looong step tube > > I'm a slow builder (really)... This photo shows what appears to be a one > piece > step tube in a quick build fuse. My steps consist of two short step tubes > that > are attached to the inboard rib. Anyone know what's up with the > difference? > > http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Construct/Log/Fuselage/RemovTempInstall/slides/2005-07-17_RV10-097.html > (Larry - thanks for the great photos!) > > Thanks, > Jay > > > Never miss an email again! > Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ > > > -- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: looong step tube
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Jay, This is just temporary for shipping, it's removed when the real steps are installed. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Brinkmeyer Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 10:31 AM Subject: RV10-List: looong step tube I'm a slow builder (really)... This photo shows what appears to be a one piece step tube in a quick build fuse. My steps consist of two short step tubes that are attached to the inboard rib. Anyone know what's up with the difference? http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Construct/Log/Fuselage/RemovTempInstall/slides/ 2005-07-17_RV10-097.html (Larry - thanks for the great photos!) Thanks, Jay Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Mar 30, 2007
Subject: Battery and CG
Interesting proposition. Shouldn't be too hard for someone that is prior to the FWF to weigh all the standard components for a Lyc FWF before they hang them. I would offer but at my current rate JC might beat me. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R. Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 12:57 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery and CG And that is the point I was trying to make, that the Total weight FWF of any engine for the RV10 is unknown, and at this time we currently do not know any of the numbers. What we do know is that on the Subaru side all FWF packages will be weighed complete, with coolant radiators and prop. And my point was that I would like to know what a wet weight with accessories, oil coolers, hoses and prop, and wiring/probes etc a Lycoming weighs. I have the dry weights of the engine and some accessories, but not as a complete package for the Lycoming so it is a mute point on weight comparison until someone does the work necessary to unbolt a complete install and weigh it as installed. Conversely to the smaller RV's that install the H6 and have to worry about to much weight, I am worried about to little weight forward. I would like nothing more than to come out with the same distribution of weight across the gear as the Lycoming install but I do not think it will happen, instead I will have to move the batteries forward to offset to little engine weight, but time will tell, and that was my point. No, and I stress no known RV10's are flying with the Eggenfellner package yet, so anything we are saying is pure conjecture. Now in the next several weeks I will be able to post to everyone what it weighs when it got here and what it does to the W&B tables, but until I have it completely installed we are just making best guesses. I guarantee I will not fly with the CG anywhere near aft because I will be very worried about stall recovery, matter of fact if the weight is much different than the average RV10 install I will ballast/ move things to better match what is the norm so I can replicate the flight parameters of the "standard" builders plane...oh wait they are all different because we each can do our own thing, right? (Here is an example of that poor attempt at humor) No offense intended just light hearted banter. Dan N289DT ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Sam James Plenum Inquiry
Has anyone ALREADY ordered /received the SAM James Plenum for the IO-540? If you have would you contact me off list to compare notes? (I've already spoken with Ed Hayden and Gary Foster) THANKS Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sam James Plenum Inquiry
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Deems, the Canadian had one with the three blade that flew for the first time last month. He may be on this list. John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 1:40 PM Subject: RV10-List: Sam James Plenum Inquiry Has anyone ALREADY ordered /received the SAM James Plenum for the IO-540? If you have would you contact me off list to compare notes? (I've already spoken with Ed Hayden and Gary Foster) THANKS Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Battery and CG & alternative power
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
>From my Lancair Buddies: Gang, I wrote Thielert about the feasibility of installing their engine in an experimental aircraft - specifically a Legacy. The reply: Dear Mr. Keyworth, Thank you for your interest in the CENTURION aircraft engines product range. Currently we do offer the CENTURION 2.0 (135 PS) engine and the CENTURION 4.0 (350 PS). Whereas the CENTURION 2.0 (135 PS) can be fuelled with either Diesel or Jet A1, the stronger CENTURION 4.0 is a pure Jet fuel engine. Today the CENTURION 2.0 (135 PS) holds an EASA and an FAA type-certificate. Our new CENTURION 4.0 is EASA type certificated and we are presently working on the FAA certificate. See our general brochure: http://www.thielert.com/download/prospekt_retrofit_en.pdf (8MB) The CENTURION 2.0 (135 PS) engine offers - in comparison to the original engines of the Cessna 172 and Piper 28 series - many advantages concerning the safety, comfort, performance and fuel efficiency. Especially the enormous profitability of our engine is due to the significant lower fuel consumption with the cheaper Diesel or Jet A1 fuel. We do offer Retrofit-Kits for a variety of models from the Cessna 172 and Piper PA 28 series. Each Kit includes: New engine mount, engine, reduction gear, turbocharger, starter, alternator, cooling system, prop governor, vacuum pump, single lever control selector, FADEC, engine instruments, wiring harness and a new MT-variable pitch propeller. The same benefits basically will be offered by the CENTURION 4.0 Jet Fuel engine: The engine will be single lever controlled through our FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control). Max power of 350 PS(DIN 15=B0C) will be available for 5 minutes; propeller 2.300 RPM. Full HP will be available up to approximately 12.000 ft. Max continuous power will be appr. 330 PS(DIN 15=B0C); propeller 2.300 RPM. At 18.000 ft we estimate approx. continuous 290 PS(DIN 15=B0C). At FL 240 we estimate approx. continuous 250 PS(DIN 15=B0C). Certified service ceiling is FL 250. For the cabin pressurization a separate compressor, driven by our accessory gear, will be available. Full power (350 PS DIN 15=B0C) fuel consumption at sea level = roughly 20.1 gallons per hour Best Economy (60 % rated power - 210 PS DIN 15=B0C) = estimated 11.0 gallons per hour We currently estimate the weight of the CENTURION 4.0 complete & dry including the gearbox, starter, alternator, harness and FADEC depending on the installation, at 620 lbs. As mentioned, until today Thielert Aircraft Engines has developed Retrofit-Kits for the Cessna 172 and PA 28 series with our smaller CENTURION 2.0 (135 PS) engine. Our engines show a different complexity and have a highly sophisticated electrical system, which requires an installation according to regulations and procedures as you find in certified aircraft. Thus, we cannot offer the CENTURION engines for experimental/Kit installations. [Emphasis mine] If you do have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. Sincerely Wolfgang Biereth John C. - just for a perspective ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard Reynolds <rvreynolds(at)macs.net>
Subject: Re: POM
Date: Mar 30, 2007
Try searching for "POH" Pilot Operating Handbook, or AFM Airplane Flight Manual. Take a Cessna or Piper POH and adapt it. Richard Reynolds On Mar 30, 2007, at 9:45 AM, Sam Marlow wrote: > Where do I start? Do one of you guys already flying have a source > for a manual? > Thanks, > Sam Marlow > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Aluminum body filler recommendations sought
After my misstep w/ Bondo in the interior of the cabin cover I'm gun shy about approaching the topic of body filler, But......... due to my less than perfect riveting technique, there are some places on the airframe the I want to 'fill' and otherwise cosmetically doctor prior to painting. So I'm looking for recommendations. What body fillers have people used or are planning to use? And are they compatible w/ aluminum? I'm assuming that most auto body fillers are designed for steel. I've been using poly fibers Super-Fil on the Fiberglass/Epoxy parts, and the can says that it can be applied to any surface, is this a suitable filler? Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ > * > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Manuals
The UPS truck just dropped off 2 Lycoming manuals 1. Publication Number 60297-10 date June 2006 revision 60297-10-1 OPERATORS MANUAL est 50-100 pages 2. Detailed Specifications for Engine, Aircraft Model IO-540-D4A5, -D4B5, D4C5 260 horsepower Direct Drive pub No. 2319-C 3 may 1990 Let me know if you want/need copies. Deems > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Aluminum body filler recommendations sought
Date: Mar 30, 2007
Go to your auto store and get EverCoat Metal Glaze. Don't let them talk you into a substitute. It is a thin bondo like material that is catalized and you can sand it in 2 hours with 125 grit and in 4 hours 180 grit. Works great. Now for the primer wars-- Since I am an old Glasair builder and liked the smooth look, and since you have to fill the transition from the cabin top to the edges, I decided to fill all my rivets for that go-fast look. I think it produces a better looking airframe. Hold the flame throwers here, to each his own. Gary 40274 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 7:25 PM Subject: RV10-List: Aluminum body filler recommendations sought After my misstep w/ Bondo in the interior of the cabin cover I'm gun shy about approaching the topic of body filler, But......... due to my less than perfect riveting technique, there are some places on the airframe the I want to 'fill' and otherwise cosmetically doctor prior to painting. So I'm looking for recommendations. What body fillers have people used or are planning to use? And are they compatible w/ aluminum? I'm assuming that most auto body fillers are designed for steel. I've been using poly fibers Super-Fil on the Fiberglass/Epoxy parts, and the can says that it can be applied to any surface, is this a suitable filler? Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ > * > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Oopss - I've done it again
OOPPS!!!!!!!!!!! I've done it again !!!!!! I had intended this to be directed to a specific individual vs the entire universe. Please disregard my 'offer' Deems ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Mar 31, 2007
Subject: Re: Aluminum body filler recommendations sought
Deems, I would use Super fill to get everything filled it you want to do..... ......then wait to acid etch and Alodine before you FINAL FILL with two part filler like EVERCOAT Metal Glaze or Glaze coat. Then Prime as most of these fillers are NOT waterproof and need the primer over them befor e final paint. We did West System on everything then acid etch and alodine...........no w we are finishing the fine lines/holes with Glaze coat. Most shops w anna use BONDO then finish with Metal glaze.....then prime for final pai nt. Bondo is fast and easy that is why they use it. I was amazed how much Epoxy we had to put on the top just forward of the windshield to ge t a nice CURVE ..........then ribs in that area tend to be flattened out a lot. BTW.I will take a couple of those Lycoming Manuals.................. DEAN 40449 ________________________________________________________________________ Interested in getting caught up on today's news? Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines. http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/f ront.htm?csp=24
Deems,

I would use Super fill to get everything filled it you want to do...........then wait to acid etch and Alodine before you FINAL FILL w ith two part filler like EVERCOAT Metal Glaze or Glaze coat. Then Prime as most of these fillers are NOT waterproof and need the primer ov er them before final paint.

We did West System on everything then acid etch and alodine.......... .now we are finishing the fine lines/holes with Glaze coat.  & nbsp; Most shops wanna use BONDO then finish with Metal glaze.....then p rime for final paint.   Bondo is fast and easy that is why the y use it. I was amazed how much Epoxy we had to put on the top jus t forward of the windshield to get a nice CURVE ..........then ribs in t hat area tend to be flattened out a lot.

BTW.I will take a couple of those Lycoming Manuals..................< /P>
DEAN 40449

______________________ __________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: POM

March 07, 2007 - March 30, 2007

RV10-Archive.digest.vol-cd