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From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Aluminum body filler recommendations sought
Date: Mar 30, 2007
I love this stuff. Strong, really light and goes on super smooth. JOhn G. http://www.uschem.com/products/index.html SPLIT-SECOND Rapid Sanding Glazing Putty-- ONLY USC MAKES IT. Guaranteed to sand faster and easier. Easier than anything else! Sands in 15 minutes or less! Super lightweight, weighs 35% less than standard polyester putties. Adheres to galvanized metal, fiberglass and aluminum. Stain free, tack free formula. Sand next day without losing performance. Ultra-smooth texture for great spreading and feather-edging. With Raspberry Cream Hardener. You will need a PDF reader to be able to view one of the documents below. If you do not have the Adobe Acrobat Reader, click on the icon to the right and follow the instructions. PART # DESCRIPTION SIZE # / CASE WEIGHT CLICK BELOW 26020 Split-Second Squat Quart Can (1.2 lbs.) 6 8 lbs. view msds view tech bulletin 26023 Split-Second Wide opening Squat Can (1.9 lbs.) 6 12 lbs. view msds view tech bulletin Return to Product List >From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: Aluminum body filler recommendations sought >Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 16:24:36 -0700 > > >After my misstep w/ Bondo in the interior of the cabin cover I'm gun shy >about approaching the topic of body filler, But......... due to my less >than perfect riveting technique, there are some places on the airframe the >I want to 'fill' and otherwise cosmetically doctor prior to painting. So >I'm looking for recommendations. What body fillers have people used or are >planning to use? And are they compatible w/ aluminum? I'm assuming that >most auto body fillers are designed for steel. I've been using poly fibers >Super-Fil on the Fiberglass/Epoxy parts, and the can says that it can be >applied to any surface, is this a suitable filler? > >Deems Davis # 406 >Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) >http://deemsrv10.com/ > >>* >>* > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Aluminum body filler recommendations sought
Date: Mar 31, 2007
Deems, I've had great luck with each of the fillers below. They contain aluminum and sand easy. I used it for the aluminum, primarily to fill seams and hide rows of rivets for a smooth look on one my first planes. I haven't noticed any cracking or shrinking yet. I'm thinkin' the stuff expands and contracts at a rate closer to the base material..although I've been wrong before. Regardless, I plan to use a bunch of it on the 10 to cover my "beauty marks".. Steve 40205 Iflyrv10.com U.S. Chem Metal Fillers All-Metal Premium Aluminum Filled Repair Compound The world's first aluminum filled repair compound. Preferred product for restoration work and classic car repairs. Excellent adhesion to metals or wood. Can be drilled and tapped. Prevents bleed-through and bleaching. Ideal for metal leveling and mending, rust repair, use over spot welds and as a finish or barrier coat over all types of fillers. Aluminum-filled, rustproof and waterproof body filler. Requires minimal shaping or grinding. Has the look and feel of lead. Includes All-Metal liquid reactor. Gallon - USC 14010 | Quart - USC 14060 Metal-2-MetalT Aluminum filled body repair filler for metal surfaces. Has excellent corrosion resistance and superior adhesion to galvanized steel and aluminum. Will not sag. Best known as the "nearest thing to lead." Moisture proof. Rustproof. Easily sands to a fine featheredge. Metal-2-MetalT liquid reactor included. CATALOG NO. SIZE UNITS/CASE WT./CASE 611 .75 oz. Reactor 24 1 lbs. 889 Quart 6 20 lbs. MSDS 100611_Metal-2-Metal_Reactor_7-12-05.doc 100611French Liquid Activator 10-23-02.pdf 100889cf Metal 2 Metal 1-23-07.pdf 100889 Metal-2-Metal 1-23-07.pdf View <http://www.evercoat.com/imgs/pis/M2MPIS.pdf> Info <http://www.evercoat.com/imgs/salesflyers/Specialty%20Fillers%204%20pger.pdf > Sales Flyer -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 7:25 PM Subject: RV10-List: Aluminum body filler recommendations sought After my misstep w/ Bondo in the interior of the cabin cover I'm gun shy about approaching the topic of body filler, But......... due to my less than perfect riveting technique, there are some places on the airframe the I want to 'fill' and otherwise cosmetically doctor prior to painting. So I'm looking for recommendations. What body fillers have people used or are planning to use? And are they compatible w/ aluminum? I'm assuming that most auto body fillers are designed for steel. I've been using poly fibers Super-Fil on the Fiberglass/Epoxy parts, and the can says that it can be applied to any surface, is this a suitable filler? Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ > * > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "KiloPapa" <kilopapa(at)antelecom.net>
Subject: Re: QB Wings
Date: Mar 30, 2007
Dave, I had my QB Wings & Fuselage delivered by Tony Partain and they were not scheduled to be crated but the wings still arrived in a box. Don't know why. Here are a couple of pics in case yours come this way also. Kevin 40494 tail/empennage The cradles were built from the commonly referenced design: ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Leikam Subject: RV10-List: QB Wings My QB wings and fuse are due to arrive next Tuesday. Does anyone have a good picture of the QB wings as they are when delivered? I want to build a wing cradle. I have looked at the pics on Tim's site and others, but I would still like to see what I will be dealing with. Dave Leikam 40496 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2007
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: POM
Sorry bout that, I asked for the file a few months ago, Gen Grumppy did tell me he recieved the prginal from Tim, My intent was to NOT take credit myself for the POH. Gen made no claim to glory when he sent it to me. Need to stop those late night replies. ;) Rick S. 40185 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: dimples in door halves don't line up?
Date: Mar 31, 2007
From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
hey all - forgive me if i sound like a bummer all the time, but remember when i posted that i couldn't see all of the dimples molded into the door halves? well, the ones i could see i drilled holes in like you're supposed to, and i figured that all would become apparent when i got them together. well, now the holes that i do have drilled don't line up with eachother when i try to cleco the door halves together. i get 3 clecos in, and the other 2 holes that i do have drilled in the doors don't line up. about 1/8" off in the worst case. so, the question is, do i get it together so that it looks like i think it should and move on? am i setting myself up for a disaster later? i'd love some feedback on this. i'm not sure if i'm just being a baby, (waaa, my parts don't fall together perfectly) or whether this is an issue that will bite me later. thanks cj #40410 finishing www.perfectlygoodairplane.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JAMES MCCHESNEY" <rvtach(at)msn.com>
Subject:
Date: Mar 31, 2007
Hey guys- Just stumbled across this Zolatone thread on the RV Builders Hotline. I'm building a -7A and plan to finish the interior with Zolatone. After reading the Zolatone website I just about choked at the cost of the spry guns they recommend. My local auto paint supplier sugested a "Shutz Gun" which is used to apply automotive undercoatings. I wasn't convinced that this was a good idea so I emailed Zolatone and got a very helpful reply regarding an economical Harbor Freight based alternative. The trick is getting a gun with as large enough spry tip for the texture particles. Here is the text of that email. Hope this helps someone. Jim, Big time bad. Don't even try it because you can't do the necessary "sheer coat" then "pattern coat" to properly to install our product as outlined on our web site and master catalog. Recently one outfit that does Airstream refurbish work in CO bought this setup from Harbor Freight and he said it worked well. It is definitely lower cost than DeVilbiss, Sata and Sharpe which have setups that sell for $500 - $800. --- Harbor Freight Pressure Pot Spray Gun Setup According to an Airstream refurbisher in CO, this worked very well. www.harborfreight.com # 93305 Pressure Pot w/ Bad Gun $49.99 (Buy this and don't use the gun that comes with it) # 43760 Good Gun w/ .082" Tip $19.99 (1 Qt siphon gun, detach from cup and use w/ pressure pot setup) ---- Hope this helps. Sincerely, Robert Hensley, Vice-President Zolatone Automotive, Industrial & Marine Div. Surface Protection Ind. Intl. 3411 E. 15th Street Los Angeles, CA 90023 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2007
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: : RV10-List:Zolatone
James, Thanks for sharing this tip with us on the 10 list. Larry Rosen RV-10 #356 JAMES MCCHESNEY wrote: > > Hey guys- > > Just stumbled across this Zolatone thread on the RV Builders Hotline. I'm > building a -7A and plan to finish the interior with Zolatone. After reading > the Zolatone website I just about choked at the cost of the spry guns they > recommend. My local auto paint supplier sugested a "Shutz Gun" which is used > to apply automotive undercoatings. I wasn't convinced that this was a good > idea so I emailed Zolatone and got a very helpful reply regarding an > economical Harbor Freight based alternative. The trick is getting a gun with > as large enough spry tip for the texture particles. Here is the text of that > email. Hope this helps someone. > > Jim, > > Big time bad. Don't even try it because you can't do the necessary "sheer > coat" then "pattern coat" to properly to install our product as outlined on > our web site and master catalog. > > Recently one outfit that does Airstream refurbish work in CO bought this > setup from Harbor Freight and he said it worked well. It is definitely lower > cost than DeVilbiss, Sata and Sharpe which have setups that sell for $500 - > $800. > --- > Harbor Freight Pressure Pot Spray Gun Setup > > According to an Airstream refurbisher in CO, this worked very well. > > www.harborfreight.com > > # 93305 Pressure Pot w/ Bad Gun $49.99 > > (Buy this and don't use the gun that comes with it) > > # 43760 Good Gun w/ .082" Tip $19.99 > > (1 Qt siphon gun, detach from cup and use w/ pressure pot setup) > > ---- > > Hope this helps. > > > Sincerely, > > Robert Hensley, Vice-President > Zolatone Automotive, Industrial & Marine > Div. Surface Protection Ind. Intl. > 3411 E. 15th Street > Los Angeles, CA 90023 > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: ELT and RJ11 cable.
Date: Mar 31, 2007
Is RJ 11 cable simply 4 wire telephone cord. Is it the stuff you can buy at Radio shack? I need some right now and I rather not run down the hill for a one hour outing. I might just cut some off the thirty foot extension I already have that is being used to hook this computer up to the phone line. I'll replace the cable tonight before my wife even knows its gone. HONEY, What's wrong with the internet connection. What, is it slower than usual?? JOhn G. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2007
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: ELT and RJ11 cable.
Same stuff. Don't even cut it leave the manufacture connectors so you don't have to replace them. Larry John Gonzalez wrote: > > Is RJ 11 cable simply 4 wire telephone cord. Is it the stuff you can > buy at Radio shack? > > I need some right now and I rather not run down the hill for a one > hour outing. I might just cut some off the thirty foot extension I > already have that is being used to hook this computer up to the phone > line. I'll replace the cable tonight before my wife even knows its > gone. HONEY, What's wrong with the internet connection. > > What, is it slower than usual?? > > JOhn G. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2007
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: ELT and RJ11 cable.
Same cable John, but it's not pinned the same from what I understand. I don't know the pinouts, but I think the cable is either rolled or has a couple of crossed wires or something like that. I think I'd wait for the real deal if you can. Tim John Gonzalez wrote: > > Is RJ 11 cable simply 4 wire telephone cord. Is it the stuff you can buy > at Radio shack? > > I need some right now and I rather not run down the hill for a one hour > outing. I might just cut some off the thirty foot extension I already > have that is being used to hook this computer up to the phone line. I'll > replace the cable tonight before my wife even knows its gone. HONEY, > What's wrong with the internet connection. > > What, is it slower than usual?? > > JOhn G. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Belue" <kdbelue(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: ELT and RJ11 cable.
Date: Mar 31, 2007
John, In my experience, the wire is telephone wire, but the pinout is different. I have an Ameri-king AK-450 and a telephone cord would not work as-is. I had to cut off one connector and wire it differently - sorry, don't remember the pinout (6 years ago). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Rosen" <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: ELT and RJ11 cable. > > Same stuff. > > Don't even cut it leave the manufacture connectors so you don't have to > replace them. > > Larry > > John Gonzalez wrote: >> >> Is RJ 11 cable simply 4 wire telephone cord. Is it the stuff you can buy >> at Radio shack? >> >> I need some right now and I rather not run down the hill for a one hour >> outing. I might just cut some off the thirty foot extension I already >> have that is being used to hook this computer up to the phone line. I'll >> replace the cable tonight before my wife even knows its gone. HONEY, >> What's wrong with the internet connection. >> >> What, is it slower than usual?? >> >> JOhn G. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2007
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: POM
Well, I guess I can take part of the credit, but not all of it. The original format with the words running vertically and stuff was taken from a Beech Sundowner owner's checklist from a list I used to be on. But, the content in the one that we're circulating had to be completely -10'd up to make it match what we needed. So yeah, I guess I did that part. Regarding the POH: I've passed it around to a few people now, with a couple requests... 1) If you have useful stuff to add to it, please copy me back on it so that I can improve mine. I get lots of request for the POH, so this will help others in the end too....personally, unless the change is really nice, I'm happy with how it is, but it would be nice to have a good W&B page and stuff like that. I did add IO-540 performance data to mine too. Almost nobody has ever written back with improvements to date. 2) Don't trust the V-speeds....use them as a guideline for your first flights if you wish, but do go out and test for yourself. The Vx and Vy in particular I didn't spend a lot of flights verifying and re-verifying. 3) If you don't agree with, or don't like a particular checklist procedure, then don't use it. We don't have identical planes, and equipment, so we can't have identical checklists either. That's why it's no use to do a "standard" printing of them. Also, some people choose to fly differently than others. For instance, I never go full-rich on landing until short final. I personally don't think it's good for the engine, and plug fouling, and at those low power settings on landing your engine will like you if you keep it lean. But, some people want to go full rich abeam the numbers on downwind. Fine. Don't bother trying to change my opinion on it, and I won't bother trying to change yours. Now, If you WANT to have a discussion about it, I'm happy to, and the list is a great place for that, but it's still something where we can each reserve the right to have our own procedures. 4) Remember, just because one person wrote some content, if YOU use the information in that checklist, you need to consider it YOUR information. I'm not responsible for anything YOU do while you fly your plane, even if my checklist procedures cause you problems.....the PILOT has the sole responsibility for his plane and passengers....a theory that I'm very glad we have in piloting. Other than that, have at it. Perhaps I should actually post the POH one of these days, but due to the above, I have not as of yet decided to make it 100% widely distributed. I had hoped for some additional information back to improve it too. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying Rick wrote: > > Sorry bout that, > > I asked for the file a few months ago, Gen Grumppy did tell me he > recieved the prginal from Tim, My intent was to NOT take credit > myself for the POH. Gen made no claim to glory when he sent it to me. > Need to stop those late night replies. ;) > > Rick S. 40185 > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2007
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: ELT and RJ11 cable.
I gave you bad information. From the Ameri-King AK-450 installation manual Note: The interconnecting wiring is a straight wiring configuration, I.e. Pin 1 to 1, Pin 2 to 2, Pin 3 to 3, Pin 4 to 4. ....... The wiring configuration is not a telephone application. (Telephone application is a cross wire configuration, i.e. Pin 1 to 4, Pin 2 to 3, Pin 4 to 1) To convert from cross wire to straight wire configuration, just simply reverse either plug upside down. Larry Larry Rosen wrote: > > Same stuff. > > Don't even cut it leave the manufacture connectors so you don't have > to replace them. > > Larry > > John Gonzalez wrote: >> >> >> Is RJ 11 cable simply 4 wire telephone cord. Is it the stuff you can >> buy at Radio shack? >> >> I need some right now and I rather not run down the hill for a one >> hour outing. I might just cut some off the thirty foot extension I >> already have that is being used to hook this computer up to the phone >> line. I'll replace the cable tonight before my wife even knows its >> gone. HONEY, What's wrong with the internet connection. >> >> What, is it slower than usual?? >> >> JOhn G. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: dimples in door halves don't line up?
Date: Mar 31, 2007
I am going to take a shot at this considering that I am not there admiring your problem. I think that if your door halves mate nice and snug against each other, the doors are not twisted when they sit on the fuselage and you have the same clearance around the door (looking from the inside), you are good to go. Rob, Flyimg - 130 hrs TT On Mar 31, 2007, at 12:57 PM, Chris Johnston wrote: > hey all - > > forgive me if i sound like a bummer all the time, but remember when > i posted that i couldn't see all of the dimples molded into the > door halves? well, the ones i could see i drilled holes in like > you're supposed to, and i figured that all would become apparent > when i got them together. well, now the holes that i do have > drilled don't line up with eachother when i try to cleco the door > halves together. i get 3 clecos in, and the other 2 holes that i > do have drilled in the doors don't line up. about 1/8" off in the > worst case. so, the question is, do i get it together so that it > looks like i think it should and move on? am i setting myself up > for a disaster later? i'd love some feedback on this. i'm not > sure if i'm just being a baby, (waaa, my parts don't fall together > perfectly) or whether this is an issue that will bite me later. > > thanks > > cj > #40410 > finishing > www.perfectlygoodairplane.net > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: Manifold Pressure line
Date: Mar 31, 2007
From: <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero>
I've got a Grand Rapids EIS and the installation instructions are kind of lacking in the area of actually hooking up the manifold pressure line to the engine. Is the easiest way to do it just to get Van's hose kit, or is there an alternative? TDT 40025 Tim Dawson-Townsend Aurora Flight Sciences tdt(at)aurora.aero 617-401-2522 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JSMcGrew(at)AOL.COM
Date: Apr 01, 2007
Subject: Gust locks
Has anyone come up with a good method for installing gust locks on the rudder / flight controls? It seems it would be a good idea if you were going to park outside for any length of time. -Jim 40134 Jim "Scooter" McGrew _http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com>
Subject: Trimming door opening flange
Date: Apr 01, 2007
A comment was made a little while back that trimming to the scribe line for the door opening left the flange too short. How much would you add? Say 1/8" short of the line and then fine tune when the door are installed? Suggestion appreciated......john John Hasbrouck #40264 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Wing attach sequence
I'm trying to get things finished off so that I can get the plane painted. (I want to have it painted BEFORE I fly). I finished off the wings some time ago and they are in storage at the hanger. Question, Can I paint the wings (and fuse) prior to completing Sec 44 (wing attach)? The current plan is to retrieve the wings, paint everything, send the wings back to the hanger, and complete Sec 44 at the hanger as part of final assembly. I've got limited space to do the wing attach here @ home. But I thought I'd check with you guys who've been down the road to see if there was any reason to go through the attach steps prior to paint. (I know there is the likelihood of some 'rash' occurring during the wing attach.) Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Another paint prep question
I've seen pictures of some RV's that appear to have had some operation performed to the rivet lines on the airframes bare metal skins. From the pictures it appears that some type of powered mechanical device was used (?). I know that some builders have chosen to fill their rivet lines w/ body filler, I don't think I'll do that, but, I would like to have the rivet lines appear as uniform as possible. (given my limited set of riveting skills) What have you guys done on this topic? Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted French" <ted_french(at)telus.net>
Subject: Weight & Balance and POH
Date: Apr 01, 2007
I have posted my POH and W & B spreadsheet at http://www3.telus.net/elfrench/RV-10_main.htm Take a look and tell what you think Thanks Ted French C-FXCS RV-10 ready to fly. Just need my test pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: QB Wings question
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Apr 01, 2007
Starting my QB Wings and I've been reading through the plans. It looks like the first page that applies to Quick Build is the fuel senders and then the stall warning. Just want to make sure I didn't miss anything that wasn't done. John -------- #40572 Empennage done, starting QB Wings N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104359#104359 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dynon EFIS and AoA Installation
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Apr 01, 2007
The Dynon heated pitot/AOA looks like a good deal, but I'm guessing that the AOA will only work with a Dynon unit, right? Besides Advanced Flight Systems AOA, what else is out there? I've seen a vane on a few wingtips - who is that? John -------- #40572 Empennage done, starting QB Wings N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104362#104362 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Apr 02, 2007
Subject: Re: Another paint prep question
Deems, I have been advised and seen people TAP out rivets that were hit a littl e too hard. They do pop out very nicely if you know what you are doin g. We have actually tapped on a few more prepping the fuse the past we ek. Some have even gone as far as SHIMMING rivets to make it a smooth skin ......................as there are some areas that the ribs/longer ons are not symetrical. Depends if you are building an airplane or a MA STERPIECE as to how much time and effort you wanna put into it. It has been an eyeopener on guidecoating the fuse and wings to see how many pla ces are not as flat and smooth as they appear. Once you guidecoat the plane all the high and low spots are very evident...........fill, sand, fill sand..............you know the drill. It does not end until final paint is done.................I HOPE. DEAN 40449 ________________________________________________________________________ Interested in getting caught up on today's news? Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines. http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/f ront.htm?csp=24
Deems,

I have been advised and seen people TAP out rivets that were hit a li ttle too hard.   They do pop out very nicely if you know what you are doing.   We have actually tapped on a few more p repping the fuse the past week.   Some have even gone as far a s SHIMMING rivets to make it a smooth skin ......................a s there are some areas that the ribs/longerons are not symetrical. Depends if you are building an airplane or a MASTERPIECE as to how much time and effort you wanna put into it. It has been an eyeopener o n guidecoating the fuse and wings to see how many places are not as flat and smooth as they appear.   Once you guidecoat the plane all the high and low spots are very evident...........fill, sand, fill sand ..............you know the drill. It does not end until final pain t is done.................I HOPE.

DEAN 40449

______________________ __________________________________________________
Interested in getting caught up on today's news?
Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines.

________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2007
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wing attach sequence
You will not be able to finish paint the wing root fairings. Also, looking at the plans there is some match drilling and nut plate attachment for the root fairing that may not work with the finished paint in that area. Larry Rosen #256 Deems Davis wrote: > > I'm trying to get things finished off so that I can get the plane > painted. (I want to have it painted BEFORE I fly). I finished off the > wings some time ago and they are in storage at the hanger. > > Question, Can I paint the wings (and fuse) prior to completing Sec 44 > (wing attach)? The current plan is to retrieve the wings, paint > everything, send the wings back to the hanger, and complete Sec 44 at > the hanger as part of final assembly. I've got limited space to do > the wing attach here @ home. But I thought I'd check with you guys > who've been down the road to see if there was any reason to go through > the attach steps prior to paint. (I know there is the likelihood of > some 'rash' occurring during the wing attach.) > > Deems Davis # 406 > Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) > http://deemsrv10.com/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)cox.net>
Subject: Another paint prep question
Date: Apr 01, 2007
Shimming fuselage ribs is a must to prevent flat spots on curves. The rule is if you can fit a shim in between the skin and the rib, a shim is needed. I found that perhaps only 10% or so of the tail cone rib holes needed shimming. Shimming adds only a few seconds to each rivet and it makes a world of difference in how well the skin curve comes out. I use scrap .032, 025 and .020, drilled/dimpled/primed and them cut into 3/4" or so squares. Another way to do the fuselage ribs told to me by an RV-10 builder is to use epoxy adhesive between the fuselage ribs and skins, holding together with cleakos. After the epoxy is set then go back and install the rivets. The idea is any gap between the skin and ribs is filled with epoxy so you don't flatten the skin. Carl Froehlich RV-8A (300 hrs) RV-10 (wings) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of ddddsp1(at)juno.com Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 8:14 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Another paint prep question Deems, I have been advised and seen people TAP out rivets that were hit a little too hard. They do pop out very nicely if you know what you are doing. We have actually tapped on a few more prepping the fuse the past week. Some have even gone as far as SHIMMING rivets to make it a smooth skin ......................as there are some areas that the ribs/longerons are not symetrical. Depends if you are building an airplane or a MASTERPIECE as to how much time and effort you wanna put into it. It has been an eyeopener on guidecoating the fuse and wings to see how many places are not as flat and smooth as they appear. Once you guidecoat the plane all the high and low spots are very evident...........fill, sand, fill sand..............you know the drill. It does not end until final paint is done.................I HOPE. DEAN 40449 ________________________________________________________________________ Interested in getting caught up on today's news? Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Trimming door opening flange
Date: Apr 01, 2007
Just a little heads up on the doors, we have seen that even though fitting the halves together is still good, that the marks that mark the holes where you cleco the door to the airframe (where the rivets were left out) do not always hold good. We use little blocks of wood around the perimeter of the door to get a fairly equal spacing and then drill to match the rivet holes. We have seen the scribe marks as much as 3/4 in off, which would make for a horribly-fitting door. Hope this may help some. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hasbrouck Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 9:42 AM Subject: RV10-List: Trimming door opening flange A comment was made a little while back that trimming to the scribe line for the door opening left the flange too short. How much would you add? Say 1/8" short of the line and then fine tune when the door are installed? Suggestion appreciated......john John Hasbrouck #40264 -- 8:54 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Good Test of cockpit lighting/Defrost Fans with Night IFR
D
From: "KiloPapa" <kilopapa(at)antelecom.net>
Date: Apr 01, 2007
A couple of items in the article caught my eye: the red lights make for more difficult viewing for those people of the age to need reading glasses, and that the commercial planes mostly use low intensity white lighting. Kevin 40494 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104415#104415 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV_10" <john_rv10(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Weight & Balance and POH
Date: Apr 02, 2007
Ted, I hope I have transposed your numbers correctly to an excel spreadsheet. If I have, I comment as follows:- 1. Your numbers suggest that you can't carry 4 adults and full baggage because you will be overloaded and outside aft C of G 2. Your numbers indicate a potential problem with aft C of G at gross take off if you have two adults in the rear seats. This problem gets worse as you burn fuel. 3. There seems to be an opportunity to move some weight forward and get a better weight and balance spread. With pilot only, you are still well aft of the forward C of G, and at gross you are aft of the aft C of G Regards, John Cleary -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted French Sent: Monday, 2 April 2007 6:49 AM Subject: RV10-List: Weight & Balance and POH I have posted my POH and W & B spreadsheet at http://www3.telus.net/elfrench/RV-10_main.htm Take a look and tell what you think Thanks Ted French C-FXCS RV-10 ready to fly. Just need my test pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net>
Subject: Re: Wing attach sequence
Date: Apr 02, 2007
I just finished this process and yes you have to match drill the wing root fairing and attach nut plates to the strip attached to the wing as well as a few on the edge of the wing, but the fairing will cover these up like house molding. But it would be necessary to wait on painting the wing root fairing itself because you have to take it off and on many times, or at least I did, to get it to fit correctly and you have to remove material to get it to fit. You would also, if you've already painted the plane, have to mask of the side of the plane because if you don't you will probably scratch putting on and taking off the fairing. It's obviously easier to do this if the plane isn't painted but I believe you could make it work after it's painted. Wayne Edgerton #40336 getting closer ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Wing attach sequence
Thanks for the advice, and the motivation. I can't believe how many apparently small items still need to be completed even after you've finished the plans! Looks like you're zeroing in on the final drive. I LOVE the looks of your prop! It's been a hassle on the prop for me, my prop was originally supposed to be delivered in Nov. The hub just got sent to Calif. Fri. so I'm guessing it will be another 2 weeks before I get the assembled prop. Aero composites seems to have excellent engineering, but their planning and scheduling sucks! Deems Wayne Edgerton wrote: > I just finished this process and yes you have to match drill the wing > root fairing and attach nut plates to the strip attached to the wing > as well as a few on the edge of the wing, but the fairing will cover > these up like house molding. But it would be necessary to wait on > painting the wing root fairing itself because you have to take it off > and on many times, or at least I did, to get it to fit correctly and > you have to remove material to get it to fit. You would also, if > you've already painted the plane, have to mask of the side of the > plane because if you don't you will probably scratch putting on and > taking off the fairing. > > It's obviously easier to do this if the plane isn't painted but I > believe you could make it work after it's painted. > > Wayne Edgerton #40336 > > getting closer > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV-10 Insurance renewal quote
Date: Apr 02, 2007
From: "Doerr, Ray R" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com>
I thought some of you would be interested in my renewal quote for Insurance from AIG. The quote from AIG was for $150,000 hull and $1,000,000/$100,000 liability was $3,144. This was based on me now having 300 hrs total time, 200 hrs in make and model and an instrument rating. The nearest quote to AIG was Global Aerospace at $4,645, not even in the ball park. Anyway, I just thought other would like to get an idea of possible rates for the RV-10 for a low time pilot. Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 N519RV (Hobbs 222 hrs) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com>
Subject: Wiring and mic jacks
Date: Apr 02, 2007
Lynn, Stein sells the washers. Click on the accessories link on his webpage. While were on the subject let me confess my ignorance yet again about wiring. I have a PMA-6000M (mono intercom) that I plan to install. At some point in the future I might elect to replace it with a fancy stereo model. Can I use the stereo jacks and cable now with the PMA-6000 but just hook both the L & R wires together on the Audio High side on the intercom? -Ben Westfall PDX #40579 Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV-10 Insurance renewal quote
Date: Apr 02, 2007
And that Ray is why we are trying to get Aircraft Mutual started. No matter how safe we are, how wwell we build the other companies look at us as a dollar sign. Bob K 90/90 and bob(at)aircraftmutual.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 11:39 AM Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Insurance renewal quote I thought some of you would be interested in my renewal quote for Insurance from AIG. The quote from AIG was for $150,000 hull and $1,000,000/$100,000 liability was $3,144. This was based on me now having 300 hrs total time, 200 hrs in make and model and an instrument rating. The nearest quote to AIG was Global Aerospace at $4,645, not even in the ball park. Anyway, I just thought other would like to get an idea of possible rates for the RV-10 for a low time pilot. Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 N519RV (Hobbs 222 hrs) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: Wing attach sequence
Date: Apr 03, 2007
Deems, You should be able to work on the wing roots at home. I pushed the fuse outside, temporarily attached the wings using two 3/8 bolts on each wing. You can even attach just one wing at a time and work on it. The plane doesn't tip over but put some saw horses underneath just in case. When you're done for the day take the wings off and put them back in your garage. The wings are easy to install/uninstall. It took me and my wife about 15-20minutes to attach each wing. Anh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 9:10 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wing attach sequence > > > Thanks for the advice, and the motivation. I can't believe how many > apparently small items still need to be completed even after you've > finished the plans! Looks like you're zeroing in on the final drive. I > LOVE the looks of your prop! It's been a hassle on the prop for me, my > prop was originally supposed to be delivered in Nov. The hub just got sent > to Calif. Fri. so I'm guessing it will be another 2 weeks before I get the > assembled prop. Aero composites seems to have excellent engineering, but > their planning and scheduling sucks! > > Deems > > Wayne Edgerton wrote: >> I just finished this process and yes you have to match drill the wing >> root fairing and attach nut plates to the strip attached to the wing as >> well as a few on the edge of the wing, but the fairing will cover these >> up like house molding. But it would be necessary to wait on painting the >> wing root fairing itself because you have to take it off and on many >> times, or at least I did, to get it to fit correctly and you have to >> remove material to get it to fit. You would also, if you've already >> painted the plane, have to mask of the side of the plane because if you >> don't you will probably scratch putting on and taking off the fairing. >> It's obviously easier to do this if the plane isn't painted but I >> believe you could make it work after it's painted. >> Wayne Edgerton #40336 >> getting closer >> * >> >> >> * > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2007
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-10 Insurance renewal quote
I don't know for sure, but I have heard that type certificated aircraft of similar value, retract or not get insurance considerably cheaper...Stuff like Bonanzas, Mooneys, Cirri, etc. (only the lower end early SR20s would drop much below 200). On 4/2/07, bob.kaufmann wrote: > > And that Ray is why we are trying to get Aircraft Mutual started. No matter > how safe we are, how wwell we build the other companies look at us as a > dollar sign. > > Bob K 90/90 and bob(at)aircraftmutual.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 11:39 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Insurance renewal quote > > > I thought some of you would be interested in my renewal quote for > Insurance from AIG. The quote from AIG was for $150,000 hull and > $1,000,000/$100,000 liability was $3,144. This was based on me now having > 300 hrs total time, 200 hrs in make and model and an instrument rating. The > nearest quote to AIG was Global Aerospace at $4,645, not even in the ball > park. > Anyway, I just thought other would like to get an idea of possible > rates for the RV-10 for a low time pilot. > > > Thank You > Ray Doerr > 40250 > N519RV (Hobbs 222 hrs) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: New engine pricing
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
Doug Reeves VAF web site suggests there is a new pricing structure on Vans Engines and an engine/prop combo deal. I can't find anything on Vans site. Is this an April fools day joke, or does someone have some tangible info on an IO-540/Hartzell combo deal?? Cheers, Ron 187 finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: fuse conduit anchor points
I'm running ~1.1" conduit in the beneath the rear seats and baggage floors on the outboard walls as several other folks have done. Two custom clamps/brackets at the tailcone side securely hold the conduit exit points. The entry next to the rear seats is pretty snug (RTV?). What's acceptable practice to secure the slack middle points to the bulkheads? Do they make adel clamps in really big sizes? Once the floors get sealed up it's going to be difficult to change anything in the middle... Thanks in advance for any input. Regards, Jay Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2007
Subject: fuse conduit anchor points
From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com>
Try these:=0Ahttp://terminaltown.com/Pages/Page65.html=0A=0A[IMG]h ttp://terminaltown.com/Media/pict133.jpg[/IMG]=0A=0AThe come in handy in various lighting holes.=0Ahttp://wcurtis.nerv10.com/07Wings/wings95h .html=0A=0AWilliam=0Ahttp://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ =0A=0A------ ----------------------------------=0A=0A--> RV10-List message posted by: Jay Brinkmeyer =0A=0AI'm running ~1.1" conduit in the beneath the rear seats and baggage floors on=0Athe outboard walls as several other folks have done. Two custom clamps/brackets=0Aat the tailcone side secur ely hold the conduit exit points. The entry next to=0Athe rear seats is pretty snug (RTV?). =0A=0AWhat's acceptable practice to secure the sl ack middle points to the bulkheads?=0ADo they make adel clamps in really big sizes? Once the floors get sealed up=0Ait's going to be difficult t o change anything in the middle...=0A=0AThanks in advance for any inp ut.=0A=0ARegards,=0AJay=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: Niko <owl40188(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: fuse conduit anchor points
You need at least one more support for the wiring. You bolt an adel clamp to one of the baggage compartment ribs to secure the wires or make an angle from sheet stock , drill a 3/4inch hole on one leg of the angle and put a snap bushing in it then rivet the angle to one of the ribs in the baggage compartment. Niko 40188 ----- Original Message ---- From: Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2007 6:45:12 AM Subject: RV10-List: fuse conduit anchor points I'm running ~1.1" conduit in the beneath the rear seats and baggage floors on the outboard walls as several other folks have done. Two custom clamps/brackets at the tailcone side securely hold the conduit exit points. The entry next to the rear seats is pretty snug (RTV?). What's acceptable practice to secure the slack middle points to the bulkheads? Do they make adel clamps in really big sizes? Once the floors get sealed up it's going to be difficult to change anything in the middle... Thanks in advance for any input. Regards, Jay Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: fuse conduit anchor points
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Quick question to everyone regarding this. These and the other solutions that have been discussed are for running unprotected wires through the lighting holes. My question is why make it so complicated, we have installed conduit, which will protect the insulation on the wires, we have already edge finished the lighting holes, so why not run the conduit through the lighting holes and secure it with lock wire, IE drill a small hole below the opening, take a length of safety wire and lock the conduit in place? Is this bad thinking, or are we just trying to make it more complex and spend allot of money on cool fasteners? Dan N289DT _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:20 AM Subject: re: RV10-List: fuse conduit anchor points Try these: http://terminaltown.com/Pages/Page65.html [IMG]http://terminaltown.com/Media/pict133.jpg[/IMG] The come in handy in various lighting holes. http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/07Wings/wings95h.html William http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ _____ I'm running ~1.1" conduit in the beneath the rear seats and baggage floors on the outboard walls as several other folks have done. Two custom clamps/brackets at the tailcone side securely hold the conduit exit points. The entry next to the rear seats is pretty snug (RTV?). What's acceptable practice to secure the slack middle points to the bulkheads? Do they make adel clamps in really big sizes? Once the floors get sealed up it's going to be difficult to change anything in the middle... Thanks in advance for any input. Regards, Jay ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jay Rowe" <jfrjr(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: strobe power location
Date: Apr 03, 2007
Van's suggests putting the strobe power source between two fuselage side stiffeners behind the baggage compartment. Is there any concern that this location could effect the funtioning of the AHRS unit(s) that I plan on putting on a shelf in that same area? Thanks, Jay Rowe #40301 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2007
Subject: Re: New engine pricing
From: Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net>
McGANN, Ron wrote: > > > Doug Reeves VAF web site suggests there is a new pricing structure on > Vans Engines and an engine/prop combo deal. I can't find anything on > Vans site. Is this an April fools day joke, or does someone have some > tangible info on an IO-540/Hartzell combo deal?? > It is also mentioned on the Aero-news site: <http://aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=7011a266-4c6d-48fc-b9e6-25fee4db6d95&> fyi -Dj ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: Niko <owl40188(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: New engine pricing
If you go to Vans engine order form you will see the combo deal on page 2. Niko ----- Original Message ---- From: Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2007 3:05:22 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: New engine pricing McGANN, Ron wrote: > > > Doug Reeves VAF web site suggests there is a new pricing structure on > Vans Engines and an engine/prop combo deal. I can't find anything on > Vans site. Is this an April fools day joke, or does someone have some > tangible info on an IO-540/Hartzell combo deal?? > It is also mentioned on the Aero-news site: <http://aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=7011a266-4c6d-48fc-b9e6-25fee4db6d95&;> fyi -Dj ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Smokin Rivets
Smokin Rivets ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel & Yoshie Simmons To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 12:34 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Smokin Rivets The anatomy of the smokin' rivet. What is smoke? The black residue that streams down wind of a rivet is Aluminum oxide, the second hardest substance on earth with the first being diamonds. Aluminum oxide is a by product of corrosion that naturally occurs. Aluminums is considered to be self lubricating, meaning it will continue to sluff, and the aluminum oxide being harder than the base metal will exponentially carve more aluminum oxide out of the base metal, A rivet that has been properly set will eventually smoke given a structure subjected to vibration that has been under engineered, meaning not enough rivets per inch. I have seen, and repaired these structures (again and again), mostly engine nacelles on jets, fortunately or unfortunately how every you want to look at the subject, Van's aircraft does not have any under engineered structures that would qualify for the under engineered place to look for smoking rivets. Yes all rivet joints move to one degree or another so a rivet can be set in such a way that it will smoke. In conclusion smoking rivets on RV is a builder flaw. How to set rivets that will smoke. First let us look at the parts that Van's sends us. The Punching process is extremely actuate, Fin Power CNC punch press have a tolerance of .004 in 8 linear feet. Van's has CAD people that really know their system and can tell the punch press exactly where to put holes. Given the .004 tolerance there are some places on the aircraft that have the same hole in 4 sheets of aluminum that each have this tolerance so you will see holes that are a little hard to put a reamer through, but is still very accurate. The punching action causes aluminum to "flow". That is the cause of the volcano on the exit side of the sheet. This flow is not like the burr created from using a drill bit. You must remove the volcano completely with out countersinking the base metal. Below is how to cause voids and entrap, well let's call it 'Stuff' for lack of better words, which promote the corrosive environment to create copious amounts of SMOKE. 1.. Use a drill bit instead of a reamer. 1.. Just for giggles take a =BC" drill bit and begin drilling a hole in a piece of .032 sheet metal. You will see that the hole that begins to develop is triangular, and as the drill bit finally passes the hole is not truly round. This is obviously a start of voids in the rivet joint. 2.. USE a Reamer they turn triangular holes into properly sized round ones. Reamers should be used everywhere on the van's pre-punched holes 2.. Don't deburr/ deburr to deeply 1.. The punching process causes a volcano like structure on the punch exit. Not only will this cause a void but will chip the rim of the volcano into the joint acting like grist in a roller mill. 2.. The head and or shop head will sit up on the volcano and will not properly clamp the rivet joint. 3.. Deburring to deeply is a very, very common mistake RV builder's make due to the punching process. 4.. Look at some of the heavier aluminum that has been punched with 1/8" holes. You will see one side that is pressed in and the other side will be coned out like a volcano. If you take a 100 degree countersink or some of the other rotary deburring tools and cut this volcano off to the point that there is no aluminum that protrudes above the base metal you will have a shallow countersink. This shallow countersink WILL NOT be completely filled by the expansion of a rivet. This is the stating point of corrosion 5.. We use sand paper to deburr. The sand paper will remove the volcano with out causing a shallow countersink. Two notes WE PRIME, WE don't build polished aircraft. 3.. Dimpling / countersinking the sub structure with the same dimple as the skin. 1.. Easy test, take two small pieces of scrap aluminum and drill #30 holes, Deburr. 2.. Dimple each with your #30 dimple dies. 3.. Mate the two pieces and you will see that they don't fit very well. This cause lots of voids and is the primary thing that RV builders do to cause smoke. 4.. Take those same two pieces of aluminum and dimple them together using your #30 dimple dies. i. Better fit isn't it! They don't rock like a bobble head doll 5.. Point here is that most people don't dimple the substructures (ribs) to "receive" the overlaying dimple. 6.. We take a small =BD"X 1/2" scrap and attach it to the male dimple die to dimple all the sub structure. This eliminates the rocking caused by having two improperly formed dimples pinched together by a rivet. 7.. I have seen people dimpling with the plastic sill in place, bad idea. 8.. I have seen people afraid of over dimpling so they hit the dimplier once instead of twice (real hard). Dimpling is a forming process that must be complete; a half dimple will cause the skin to warp, bad idea. Sorry if this is a little anal, I have spent many years trying to get the best looking rivets I can. I have piles of scrap that I drill holes in and look at with a magnifying glass. Rivet and inspect, change the technique a little here and there then drill and rivet inspect until ,In my opinion we do some of the finest riveting on RV's. Every airplane we do get's a little better and a little faster. Noel Simmons Blue Sky Aviation, Inc. www.blueskyaviation.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 9:09 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Smokin Rivets Now that builders have painted the landscape with why and why not to drill, then deburr, then dimple vs. deburr, dimple then drill or just skip it all together and just pop rivet. Let's move the discussion to the next level. I don't know if any RV-10s that have enough time on them yet but no one has addressed the cause for them, where they are likely to occur (so you can be watching), what corrective action can be taken or more importantly which of the two or three techniques being used is less likely to contribute to them. We are all prideful of our selected technique but a lot of builders might find the discussion enlightening. - not to be confused with Lightning and the need for static suppression wicks. Deems, you referenced Dan Checkoway's advise (the self promoted high guru on Sheetmetal). What say Dan? Let's hear discussion about tensile vs. shear, wet rivets, use of reams vs. drill bits, fitment of the rivet to the opening and proper prep, or rivets in composite. VAN's says "forgetaboutit" cause the RV-12 is going to skip steps in the effort to find a faster build and lazy group of builders. How about the advantages and applications of Icebox rivets, Monel or the common 1100 rivets? Come on Kelly - let's play. During last night's Pacific NW storm we were hit by a rash of lightning strikes and smoking rivets all over the NW (scores of aircraft). Anyone remember Honest Abe's math on Four Score? We are building the finest High Speed, IFR cruisers at low cost out there right? John Cox #40600 www.aeroelectric.comwww.kitlog.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10 -List ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Got any Crack (s) ? - More questions
I have heard instances of cracking around the windows on several planes. I'm hoping that the procedure that Dave McNeil published will solve that problem. However, I'm wondering about the joint/seam between the Cabin cover and the Fuse. Here are 2 dissimilar materials that likely have different expansion properties. 1, Has anybody noticed/experienced any cracks developing along the horizontal joint where the cabin cover gets joined/riveted to the skins/longerons? 2. There is a noticeable gap between the cabin cover and the fuse, what have people used to fill it? (Micro? Flox? fiberglass?) 3. On the rear seam/joint where the cabin cover joins to the tailcone upper skin (double rows of rivets). Once again the CS 4-4's need to be filled. What are folks using and are you 'filling' both rows of rivets? 4. On the above (aft) joint) has anybody done any 'filler' to smooth/transition the curve between the tailcone and the cabin cover? 5. Has anybody experimented with fiberglass tapes over the rivet seams? Sorry for so many questions. Thanks for any feedback Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) Paint Prep http://deemsrv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Battery Cable
Date: Apr 04, 2007
From: "Lee, Myles -NEXSTAR" <mlee(at)eotek.com>
I am to the point of needing to run a battery cable forward to the firewall. I am thinking of #2 welding cable. I do not have the engine yet, so can someone give me an estimate of how long of a cable I need from the Battery to the starter? Also what type and size of cable are people using? and where did you get it? Thanks in advance... Myles (wiring...) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Battery Cable
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Here the stuff. I need to check my invoices but I orderred extra as I ran dual cables and I am sure I will be cutting the extra off. http://www.periheliondesign.com/fatwires.htm This stuff is Da Kin. Light and it makes relatively tight curves. >From: "Lee, Myles -NEXSTAR" <mlee(at)eotek.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: Battery Cable >Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:59:49 -0600 > >I am to the point of needing to run a battery cable forward to the >firewall. I am thinking of >#2 welding cable. I do not have the engine yet, so can someone give me >an estimate of >how long of a cable I need from the Battery to the starter? > >Also what type and size of cable are people using? and where did you get >it? > >Thanks in advance... > >Myles (wiring...) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Battery Cable
Date: Apr 04, 2007
I just bought the Vans RV-10 wiring kit. If you would like, I could get you the wire number and you can just order that wire pre-made. Rene' Felker 40322 N423CF 801-721-6080 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lee, Myles -NEXSTAR Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 8:00 AM Subject: RV10-List: Battery Cable I am to the point of needing to run a battery cable forward to the firewall. I am thinking of #2 welding cable. I do not have the engine yet, so can someone give me an estimate of how long of a cable I need from the Battery to the starter? Also what type and size of cable are people using? and where did you get it? Thanks in advance... Myles (wiring.) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Battery Cable
Date: Apr 04, 2007
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Actually, the wire is normally run from the battery contactor to the starter contactor which is located on the upper left forward side of the firewall. Another wire is run from the other large terminal on the starter contactor to the starter. Not sure what the length is - kind of depends on the exact routing under the baggage area and rear seats, but if you're wiring the cabin section of the fuselage you've got everything you need for that wire run. Bob _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lee, Myles -NEXSTAR Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 9:00 AM Subject: RV10-List: Battery Cable I am to the point of needing to run a battery cable forward to the firewall. I am thinking of #2 welding cable. I do not have the engine yet, so can someone give me an estimate of how long of a cable I need from the Battery to the starter? Also what type and size of cable are people using? and where did you get it? Thanks in advance... Myles (wiring...) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "The McGough Family" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Got any Crack (s) ? - More questions
Date: Apr 05, 2007
Deems have brought up this issue with our paint supplier here who has 40 years preparing and spraying everything from 747 to a microlight. He is retired and just helps out home builders here. He said simple, thinned down sealant (similar to tank sealant) that you fill the void and smear over the window as far in as you want painted. Once dried you can sand . Primer and top coat. I am holding off until the plane is ready to paint. I said what some builders were doing with adding a layer of fibreglass over the void and he was amazed! regards Chris ---- Original Message ----- From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 1:41 PM Subject: RV10-List: Got any Crack (s) ? - More questions > > I have heard instances of cracking around the windows on several planes. > I'm hoping that the procedure that Dave McNeil published will solve that > problem. However, I'm wondering about the joint/seam between the Cabin > cover and the Fuse. Here are 2 dissimilar materials that likely have > different expansion properties. > > 1, Has anybody noticed/experienced any cracks developing along the > horizontal joint where the cabin cover gets joined/riveted to the > skins/longerons? > > 2. There is a noticeable gap between the cabin cover and the fuse, what > have people used to fill it? (Micro? Flox? fiberglass?) > > 3. On the rear seam/joint where the cabin cover joins to the tailcone > upper skin (double rows of rivets). Once again the CS 4-4's need to be > filled. What are folks using and are you 'filling' both rows of rivets? > > 4. On the above (aft) joint) has anybody done any 'filler' to > smooth/transition the curve between the tailcone and the cabin cover? > > 5. Has anybody experimented with fiberglass tapes over the rivet seams? > > > Sorry for so many questions. > > Thanks for any feedback > > > Deems Davis # 406 > Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) > Paint Prep > http://deemsrv10.com/ > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 2007
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>
Subject: Battery cable
John; My understanding of aluminum wire is the problem of fatigue and breakage. Copper is much more flexible (not quite the right mechanical term "metal fatigue"). . Also, if you look at the table, for that length of wire, you may only save 1-2 lbs. Personally, I know where I can shave off 10 -20 lbs of flying weight. Dr. Fred 50515 Working on firewall. Parts alodined today. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Subject: Battery Cable
From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com>
=0A=0AWhy not just use Mil Spec Tefzel insulated #2 aircraft grade ti n plated copper wire?- The same as in certified ships.- What make this CCA stuff better than that--at $6.75 per foot?=0A=0ACompare that with $2.94 per foot from Teminal Town. (TZ-02 - MS-22759/16-02)=0Ahttp://ter minaltown.com/Pages/Page20.html=0A=0A20 feet should do. =0A=0A William=0Ahttp://wcurtis.nerv10.com/=0A=0A------------------------ ----------------=0A ---- ---------------------- ------------------------ --------------------------=0AX-Rcpt-To: =0A uff. I need to check my invoices but I orderred extra as I ran =0Adual c ables and I am sure I will be cutting the extra off.=0A=0Ahttp://www. periheliondesign.com/fatwires.htm=0A=0AThis stuff is Da Kin. Light an d it makes relatively tight curves.=0A=0A>From: "Lee, Myles -NEXSTAR" =0A>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com=0A>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com =0A>Subject: RV10-List: Battery Cable=0A>Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:59: orward to the=0A>firewall. I am thinking of=0A>#2 welding cable. I do not have the engine yet, so can someone give me=0A>an estimate of=0A >how long of a cable I need from the Battery to the starter?=0A>=0A>A lso what type and size of cable are people using? and where did you get =0A>it?=0A>=0A>Thanks in advance...=0A>=0A>Myles (wiring...) =====0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV-10 Outline Drawings
Date: Apr 04, 2007
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
Dear list, In an obvious attempt to avoid doing something productive I have traced the outline of Vans line art for the RV-10 using Adobe Illustrator. I initially did this so I could start sorting thru & sketching paint schemes. For ease of use I have converted it to a .jpg which makes the outline a bit rough but still usable. Robin Marks RV-10 pieces If anyone in interested in the .ai file (v.cs) email me offline <> <> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 2007
From: Niko <owl40188(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Battery cable
If one uses it properly aluminum wire is fine for aircraft. In fact I am just looking at some long aluminum busbars for an aircraft application. They do save some weight. The one think that I was not happy about is that one needs a larger diameter aluminum wire for the same resistance as a copper one and my conduits were pretty full allready. Didn't want to drill more holes to fit another conduit. Niko 40188 ----- Original Message ---- From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2007 6:05:37 PM Subject: RV10-List: Battery cable John; My understanding of aluminum wire is the problem of fatigue and breakage. Copper is much more flexible (not quite the right mechanical term "metal fatigue"). . Also, if you look at the table, for that length of wire, you may only save 1-2 lbs. Personally, I know where I can shave off 10 -20 lbs of flying weight. Dr. Fred 50515 Working on firewall. Parts alodined today. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Subject: RV-10 Outline Drawings
From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com>
I think you have kinda re-invented the wheel.- Both Tim and I have outlin es already on our sites:=0A=0ASide=0Ahttp://wcurtis.nerv10.com/93P aint/RV10_Paint0.bmp=0A=0AFront=0Ahttp://wcurtis.nerv10.com/93Pain t/RV10_Outline_Front.jpg=0A=0AWilliam=0Ahttp://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ =0A=0A----------------------------------------=0A ---- ---------- ------------ --------------------------------------------------=0A0.00 H TML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message=0AX-SmarterMail-Spam: BAYESIA N FILTERING=0AX-Rcpt-To: =0A=0A Dear list, ------- In an obvious attempt to avoid doing something pro ductive I have traced the outline of Vans line art for the RV-10 usi ng Adobe Illustrator . I initially did this so I could start sorting t h r u & sketching pain t schemes. For ease of use I have converted it to a .jpg which makes the outline a bit rough but still usable. Robin Mar ks RV-10 pieces If anyone in interested in the .ai file (v.cs) email me offline =0A <> <> =0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV-10 Outline Drawings
Date: Apr 04, 2007
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
Won't be the last time I reinvent the wheel. Cept this time mine is gunna be square. I will post the illustrator file on one of my servers for download in the next 12 hours or so; then notify the list. Robin ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 6:23 PM Subject: re: RV10-List: RV-10 Outline Drawings I think you have kinda re-invented the wheel. Both Tim and I have outlines already on our sites: Side http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/93Paint/RV10_Paint0.bmp Front http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/93Paint/RV10_Outline_Front.jpg William http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ ________________________________ ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-SmarterMail-Spam: BAYESIAN FILTERING X-Rcpt-To: Dear list, In an obvious attempt to avoid doing something productive I have traced the outline of Vans line art for the RV-10 using Adobe Illustrator. I initially did this so I could start sorting thru & sketching paint schemes. For ease of use I have converted it to a .jpg which makes the outline a bit rough but still usable. Robin Marks RV-10 pieces If anyone in interested in the .ai file (v.cs) email me offline <> <> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: battery cable
Date: Apr 05, 2007
Thanks for everyones input. I would like to know what this paste is that needs to be placed between the lug and the aluminum cooper wire of the fat wire. As for the aluminum wire being brittle and not being able to handle fatique, I question where all the fatigue will be coming from in my installation of the cable. This fat wire is quite interesting in that as you bend it one can feel all the individual wires moving over one another. It is quite flexible. As I said, it is also quite light. I have used #2 welding cable on an automobile starter motor which I made into a high launch winch for launching Large RC gliders. That stuff is quite inflexible and is very, much, more, heavy. Being that I am installing dual batteries with the Eggenfellner engine, I am installing twice the amount of battery cable. Weight was a huge concern. Please tell me about the paste which will keep my battery cable for catching on fire like the light British destroyer did in the Faulklin Island conflict. I wouldn't want my plane to fall out of the sky. Here are some cable routing pics showing all the support to the cable. Huge rubber grommet are used in stead of nylon snap bushings. Concern for chaffing was very much considered. Now to some unanswerred question about Radio and mic jacks. JOhn G ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Headphone jacks and mic jacks.
Date: Apr 05, 2007
Here is what i am looking for. I understand about being consistent with the wire color coating. I am greatful for people pointing out the different elements which make up a plug and the recepticle for the plug. Audio, PTT, and common. thanks for the likk to the Aero Electric book..forgot I owned it. What are the practices for the color coating on each of those elements. Blue red and white. I own the stuff Stein sold me. Shielded 3 wire. When I look at my PS 3000 schematic , it is not clear which color is for what. If someone professional in the futrure works on my radio installation I would like to have it the way it is supposed to be. The manual says hook the shield to the intercom side only. I will follow the directions so I do not need to know why I can do it on both ends. But where do I hook the shield? There is no location on the intercom itself and no place where I can tie all the shields together. Once they are tied together do they go to the negative ground plate on the firewall. As for the wire which will be the common wire in the schematic, how do this all get tied together. Having trouble figuring this stuff out even looking in the Aero electric book and comparing it to the PS 3000 schematic. Did anyone do there own wiring? Thanks, JOhn ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV-10 Vector Outline Drawings Online
Date: Apr 05, 2007
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
Here is a link to the Outline Drawings to download. Robin http://www.painttheweb.com/rv10 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 05, 2007
From: rv10builder <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: battery cable
In telecom we use No-Ox made by Sanchem: http://www.sanchem.com/ox.html It's applied to all electrical terminations using a mechanical means of connection. Apply sparingly. If you can see it, you've applied too much! Brian #40308 http://www.mykitlog.com/rv10builder ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Sargeant" <k5wiv(at)amsat.org>
Subject: battery cable
Date: Apr 05, 2007
One of the commonly used products (and I think pretty good) is called Alox. Jack & Cecilia Sargeant 1127 Patricia St. Wichita, KS 67208-2642 316/683-5268 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Gonzalez Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 11:34 AM Subject: RV10-List: battery cable Thanks for everyones input. I would like to know what this paste is that needs to be placed between the lug and the aluminum cooper wire of the fat wire. As for the aluminum wire being brittle and not being able to handle fatique, I question where all the fatigue will be coming from in my installation of the cable. This fat wire is quite interesting in that as you bend it one can feel all the individual wires moving over one another. It is quite flexible. As I said, it is also quite light. I have used #2 welding cable on an automobile starter motor which I made into a high launch winch for launching Large RC gliders. That stuff is quite inflexible and is very, much, more, heavy. Being that I am installing dual batteries with the Eggenfellner engine, I am installing twice the amount of battery cable. Weight was a huge concern. Please tell me about the paste which will keep my battery cable for catching on fire like the light British destroyer did in the Faulklin Island conflict. I wouldn't want my plane to fall out of the sky. Here are some cable routing pics showing all the support to the cable. Huge rubber grommet are used in stead of nylon snap bushings. Concern for chaffing was very much considered. Now to some unanswerred question about Radio and mic jacks. JOhn G ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 05, 2007
From: rv10builder <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: battery cable
sorry..the correct link specific to aluminum cable: http://www.sanchem.com/aSpecialE.html rv10builder wrote: > > In telecom we use No-Ox made by Sanchem: > > http://www.sanchem.com/ox.html > > It's applied to all electrical terminations using a mechanical means > of connection. Apply sparingly. If you can see it, you've applied > too much! > > Brian > #40308 > http://www.mykitlog.com/rv10builder > > > . > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Center consol access
Date: Apr 06, 2007
The question was asked some time ago but no one had a good solution, so I will ask again. Does any one have a way to remove the tunnel covers without removing the front seats? Gary 40274 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Center consol access
Date: Apr 06, 2007
The only way I can think of without modifying the covers would be to leave out the screws that can't be reached by sliding the seat to it's extreme forward and aft position. The modifying way would be to rivet on a piece of angle to the top of the tunnel side walls and screw the tunnel cover on in that area from the top instead of the sides. This would probably be more structurally sound than the first option, but also a lot more work. I don't know the structural effect of the tunnel covers, so leaving out the screws would certainly be easiest if it isn't a structural part (I know a lot of people are leaving the tunnel covers off at least for first flight and some for the whole fly-off period. That's all just shooting from the hip, so I hope it helps. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 4:15 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Center consol access The question was asked some time ago but no one had a good solution, so I will ask again. Does any one have a way to remove the tunnel covers without removing the front seats? Gary 40274 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 2007
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: A great leaning article
What we all are doing...build the airplane...novel idea...use the plans :) Rick S. 40185 bout done with this thing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2007
From: jerry petersen <bldanrv9a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Center consol access
I haven't thought much about this but a thought occurred to me. Could you add a strip of aluminum the thickness of the cover to the side vertical and then attach a strip of piano hinge in the area of the seat? You would then be able to remove the available screws, pull the piano hinge wire, remove the fuel lever and it could be removed. --- gary wrote: > > > The question was asked some time ago but no one had > a good solution, so I > will ask again. > Does any one have a way to remove the tunnel covers > without removing the > front seats? > Gary > 40274 > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > > Web Forums! > > > > > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2007
From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
I'm starting work on my QB wings and trying to think through whether I should remove the tanks to inspect, install the senders, test for leaks, ease access for other parts, etc. Any comments? I started removing one and immediately ran into some problems with the a few screws not coming out easily. That alone may be a good reason to remove, inspect, and re-install. Thanks for comments. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)suddenlink.net>
Subject: Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
Date: Apr 08, 2007
I would strongly recommend that the QB tanks be removed and tested for leaks. I wished I had!!! In addition, if I had it to do over again I would not have installed the stall warning as it is a waste of time and does little to help with stall warning. If you have it set right on the money and can't tell that you are way too slow you are a really bad pilot. If you have it set just a little bit high and fly a no power approach with full flaps it is going to sound off long before your wheels touch down in a full flare power off landing which can cause some passengers a little concern. Set a little low it does nothing until after you have already started recovery from a full stall. The RV-10 stall with my IO-540 and MT prop is so predictable and recognizable in level flight that it is hard for me to understand how any reasonably competent pilot who has put the RV-10 through full flight testing would ever need the stall warning device. In addition, unless you round off the edges of the stall warning blade you WILL catch your shirt on it and bend it which then makes it useless until the test and re-test where it needs to be bent to get it right on the money. Ask me how I know!! Russ Daves N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06 100+ hours and loving it ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
Date: Apr 08, 2007
I didn't remove my fuel tanks and have no problems after 90+ hours. I agree with Russ on leaving the stall warning off. I left if off and installed an AOA which makes every landing picture perfect. Now if you believe that I have some ocean front property in Arizona I want to sell you. Mark N410MR >From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)suddenlink.net> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal >Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 06:10:01 -0500 > >I would strongly recommend that the QB tanks be removed and tested for >leaks. I wished I had!!! > >In addition, if I had it to do over again I would not have installed the >stall warning as it is a waste of time and does little to help with stall >warning. If you have it set right on the money and can't tell that you are >way too slow you are a really bad pilot. If you have it set just a little >bit high and fly a no power approach with full flaps it is going to sound >off long before your wheels touch down in a full flare power off landing >which can cause some passengers a little concern. Set a little low it does >nothing until after you have already started recovery from a full stall. > >The RV-10 stall with my IO-540 and MT prop is so predictable and >recognizable in level flight that it is hard for me to understand how any >reasonably competent pilot who has put the RV-10 through full flight >testing would ever need the stall warning device. > >In addition, unless you round off the edges of the stall warning blade you >WILL catch your shirt on it and bend it which then makes it useless until >the test and re-test where it needs to be bent to get it right on the >money. Ask me how I know!! > >Russ Daves >N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06 >100+ hours and loving it _________________________________________________________________ Mortgage refinance is Hot. *Terms. Get a 5.375%* fix rate. Check savings https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2bbb&disc=y&vers=925&s=4056&p=5117 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2007
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Battery Cable Length
I just pulled my fat wire. It runs on the left side of the fuselage: * through the outermost lighting hole at the empennage / fuselage connection, * through a hole inboard of the outboard most lightning hole between the seats and the baggage compartment (this puts the wire between the 1st and second seat rib) * then through a hole in the outermost seat rib, * through the bottom hole (rear seat and floor board), * through two new holes towards the bottom of the vertical wing spar channel * then a straight shot through the firewall (the hole in the firewall is in the location Vans specifies). The wire length from the fuselage / empennage connection to the firewall is 10 feet +/- 1 inch. Then add another foot from the firewall to the starter contactor and 3-4 feet to the master contactor would give +/- 15 feet. I would recommend running a weed wacker string through your wire routing prior to ordering the battery wire, or order extra length. Larry Rosen #356 <http://lrosen.nerv10.com > How about a couple of measurements on the lengths of all #2 wires? > That would be very helpful. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2007
From: Dave Lammers <davelammers(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
Hi "MauleDriver", The plans have you remove at least the left tank for the installation of the stall warning sensor switch. All else can be done with the tank installed, unless of course the balloon leak test discovers a leak, then the tank might need to be removed to locate the leak. Here is what I would do if I were doing it again: First, I would leak test with the tanks installed. If no leaks are found, I would install the quantity sensors and fittings, inspect for proper torque of the screws, and be done with the tanks, i.e.: no removal. Secondly, the plans location of the stall warn sensor and necessity to install an access panel is nonsense. It has been stated on this forum before that the access panel is poorly located due to the curvature of the wing. If you install per plans, it will oil-can. I added 3/4 x 3/4 stiffener angles and of course the longitudinal one(s) need to have the web fluted to give the flange the proper curvature. All quite easy to do but time consuming. However after it is all done, access to the sensor switch (the purpose of the panel in the first place) is difficult for all but the longest, skinniest arms with full swivel joints at the wrists, etc. Some have opted to, or advised to, leave out the stall horn. This is my third homebuilt aircraft and the first with any sort of stall or AOA sensor of any kind. I thought seriously about leaving it out. However, I plan on letting others use this aircraft. In the event (heaven forbid) of a serious accident, I can just hear the lawyers talking about the irresponsibility of leaving out a safety warning device that was in the plans and recommended by the manufacturer. (It's a real shame frivolous lawsuits have modified responsible and reasonable behavior-but so be it). Any way, so what would I do? I would transfer the location of the stall warning pilot holes to near the next to outboard rib and mount the stall warning switch on the outboard side of that rib. This allows easy access to the switch for maintenance through the removed wing tip. (Some will argue that the flow is different outside the flap area-true-but that is the reason for access-to make the fine tune adjustments). Advantages of this entire approach: No tank removal (if they pass leak test) Easy access to stall warn switch. No cutting into the wing for an access panel. Lots of time saved for meaningful construction (or flying). Regards, Dave Lammers RV-6 flying RV-10 coming along MauleDriver wrote: > > I'm starting work on my QB wings and trying to think through whether I > should remove the tanks to inspect, install the senders, test for > leaks, ease access for other parts, etc. Any comments? > > I started removing one and immediately ran into some problems with the > a few screws not coming out easily. That alone may be a good reason > to remove, inspect, and re-install. > > Thanks for comments. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2007
From: James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net>
Subject: Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
>access panel is poorly located due to the curvature of the wing. If you install per plans, it will oil-can. I put the access panels in BOTH leading edges, since I am also using them for access to the Safeair ER tank fuel lines, and transfer pumps. Installing them per plans resulted in no oil canning whatsoever. Obviously your experience is different, but I wouldn't say that they *will* oil can, just that they might. As always, your mileage may vary... -Jim 40384 Dave Lammers wrote: > > Hi "MauleDriver", > > The plans have you remove at least the left tank for the installation > of the stall warning sensor switch. All else can be done with the > tank installed, unless of course the balloon leak test discovers a > leak, then the tank might need to be removed to locate the leak. Here > is what I would do if I were doing it again: > > First, I would leak test with the tanks installed. If no leaks are > found, I would install the quantity sensors and fittings, inspect for > proper torque of the screws, and be done with the tanks, i.e.: no > removal. > > Secondly, the plans location of the stall warn sensor and necessity to > install an access panel is nonsense. It has been stated on this forum > before that the access panel is poorly located due to the curvature of > the wing. If you install per plans, it will oil-can. I added 3/4 x > 3/4 stiffener angles and of course the longitudinal one(s) need to > have the web fluted to give the flange the proper curvature. All > quite easy to do but time consuming. However after it is all done, > access to the sensor switch (the purpose of the panel in the first > place) is difficult for all but the longest, skinniest arms with full > swivel joints at the wrists, etc. Some have opted to, or advised to, > leave out the stall horn. This is my third homebuilt aircraft and the > first with any sort of stall or AOA sensor of any kind. I thought > seriously about leaving it out. However, I plan on letting others use > this aircraft. In the event (heaven forbid) of a serious accident, I > can just hear the lawyers talking about the irresponsibility of > leaving out a safety warning device that was in the plans and > recommended by the manufacturer. (It's a real shame frivolous > lawsuits have modified responsible and reasonable behavior-but so be it). > Any way, so what would I do? > I would transfer the location of the stall warning pilot holes to near > the next to outboard rib and mount the stall warning switch on the > outboard side of that rib. This allows easy access to the switch for > maintenance through the removed wing tip. (Some will argue that the > flow is different outside the flap area-true-but that is the reason > for access-to make the fine tune adjustments). > Advantages of this entire approach: > No tank removal (if they pass leak test) > Easy access to stall warn switch. > No cutting into the wing for an access panel. > Lots of time saved for meaningful construction (or flying). > > Regards, > Dave Lammers > RV-6 flying > RV-10 coming along > > > MauleDriver wrote: > >> >> I'm starting work on my QB wings and trying to think through whether >> I should remove the tanks to inspect, install the senders, test for >> leaks, ease access for other parts, etc. Any comments? >> >> I started removing one and immediately ran into some problems with >> the a few screws not coming out easily. That alone may be a good >> reason to remove, inspect, and re-install. >> >> Thanks for comments. >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
Date: Apr 08, 2007
Dave, Do you think a fully functioning AOA instrument is a good safety warning device and an alternative to the stall warning device supplied by Vans that would avoid a lawsuit? When approaching a stall in my RV-10 a nice lady inside my AOA reminds me "angle-angle-push- push". Mark N410MR >From: Dave Lammers <davelammers(at)mchsi.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal >Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 10:27:55 -0500 > > >Hi "MauleDriver", > >The plans have you remove at least the left tank for the installation of >the stall warning sensor switch. All else can be done with the tank >installed, unless of course the balloon leak test discovers a leak, then >the tank might need to be removed to locate the leak. Here is what I would >do if I were doing it again: > >First, I would leak test with the tanks installed. If no leaks are found, >I would install the quantity sensors and fittings, inspect for proper >torque of the screws, and be done with the tanks, i.e.: no removal. > >Secondly, the plans location of the stall warn sensor and necessity to >install an access panel is nonsense. It has been stated on this forum >before that the access panel is poorly located due to the curvature of the >wing. If you install per plans, it will oil-can. I added 3/4 x 3/4 >stiffener angles and of course the longitudinal one(s) need to have the web >fluted to give the flange the proper curvature. All quite easy to do but >time consuming. However after it is all done, access to the sensor switch >(the purpose of the panel in the first place) is difficult for all but the >longest, skinniest arms with full swivel joints at the wrists, etc. Some >have opted to, or advised to, leave out the stall horn. This is my third >homebuilt aircraft and the first with any sort of stall or AOA sensor of >any kind. I thought seriously about leaving it out. However, I plan on >letting others use this aircraft. In the event (heaven forbid) of a >serious accident, I can just hear the lawyers talking about the >irresponsibility of leaving out a safety warning device that was in the >plans and recommended by the manufacturer. (It's a real shame frivolous >lawsuits have modified responsible and reasonable behavior-but so be it). >Any way, so what would I do? >I would transfer the location of the stall warning pilot holes to near the >next to outboard rib and mount the stall warning switch on the outboard >side of that rib. This allows easy access to the switch for maintenance >through the removed wing tip. (Some will argue that the flow is different >outside the flap area-true-but that is the reason for access-to make the >fine tune adjustments). >Advantages of this entire approach: >No tank removal (if they pass leak test) >Easy access to stall warn switch. >No cutting into the wing for an access panel. >Lots of time saved for meaningful construction (or flying). > >Regards, >Dave Lammers >RV-6 flying >RV-10 coming along > > >MauleDriver wrote: > >> >>I'm starting work on my QB wings and trying to think through whether I >>should remove the tanks to inspect, install the senders, test for leaks, >>ease access for other parts, etc. Any comments? >> >>I started removing one and immediately ran into some problems with the a >>few screws not coming out easily. That alone may be a good reason to >>remove, inspect, and re-install. >> >>Thanks for comments. >> >> >> >> >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag3 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2007
From: Dave Lammers <davelammers(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
Mark, Great question, but when you added the modifier "that would avoid a lawsuit" you made any answer conjecture at best. Before the modifier was added, I would argue in the affirmative. You would certainly need to prove that your substitute is as good or better than what the kit manufacturer recommended. Difficult at best with any random group of pilots, let alone a group of folks who haven't a clue of what this is all about. Regards, Dave Lammers Mark Ritter wrote: > > Dave, > > Do you think a fully functioning AOA instrument is a good safety > warning device and an alternative to the stall warning device supplied > by Vans that would avoid a lawsuit? > > When approaching a stall in my RV-10 a nice lady inside my AOA reminds > me "angle-angle-push- push". > > Mark > N410MR > > >> From: Dave Lammers <davelammers(at)mchsi.com> >> Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal >> Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 10:27:55 -0500 >> >> >> Hi "MauleDriver", >> >> The plans have you remove at least the left tank for the installation >> of the stall warning sensor switch. All else can be done with the >> tank installed, unless of course the balloon leak test discovers a >> leak, then the tank might need to be removed to locate the leak. >> Here is what I would do if I were doing it again: >> >> First, I would leak test with the tanks installed. If no leaks are >> found, I would install the quantity sensors and fittings, inspect for >> proper torque of the screws, and be done with the tanks, i.e.: no >> removal. >> >> Secondly, the plans location of the stall warn sensor and necessity >> to install an access panel is nonsense. It has been stated on this >> forum before that the access panel is poorly located due to the >> curvature of the wing. If you install per plans, it will oil-can. I >> added 3/4 x 3/4 stiffener angles and of course the longitudinal >> one(s) need to have the web fluted to give the flange the proper >> curvature. All quite easy to do but time consuming. However after >> it is all done, access to the sensor switch (the purpose of the panel >> in the first place) is difficult for all but the longest, skinniest >> arms with full swivel joints at the wrists, etc. Some have opted to, >> or advised to, leave out the stall horn. This is my third homebuilt >> aircraft and the first with any sort of stall or AOA sensor of any >> kind. I thought seriously about leaving it out. However, I plan on >> letting others use this aircraft. In the event (heaven forbid) of a >> serious accident, I can just hear the lawyers talking about the >> irresponsibility of leaving out a safety warning device that was in >> the plans and recommended by the manufacturer. (It's a real shame >> frivolous lawsuits have modified responsible and reasonable >> behavior-but so be it). >> Any way, so what would I do? >> I would transfer the location of the stall warning pilot holes to >> near the next to outboard rib and mount the stall warning switch on >> the outboard side of that rib. This allows easy access to the switch >> for maintenance through the removed wing tip. (Some will argue that >> the flow is different outside the flap area-true-but that is the >> reason for access-to make the fine tune adjustments). >> Advantages of this entire approach: >> No tank removal (if they pass leak test) >> Easy access to stall warn switch. >> No cutting into the wing for an access panel. >> Lots of time saved for meaningful construction (or flying). >> >> Regards, >> Dave Lammers >> RV-6 flying >> RV-10 coming along >> >> >> >> >> MauleDriver wrote: >> >>> >>> I'm starting work on my QB wings and trying to think through whether >>> I should remove the tanks to inspect, install the senders, test for >>> leaks, ease access for other parts, etc. Any comments? >>> >>> I started removing one and immediately ran into some problems with >>> the a few screws not coming out easily. That alone may be a good >>> reason to remove, inspect, and re-install. >>> >>> Thanks for comments. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. > http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag3 > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Text inserted by Panda Platinum 2005 Internet Security: > > This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited > mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: > http://127.0.0.1:6083/Panda?ID=pav_45729&SPAM=true > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2007
Subject: Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com>
Dave, Looking at your signature, I see you are not flying yet. I don't recall any message from flying RV-10 owners that there was oil canning of this access panels. Where did you here this? I don't think they would oil can any more than the un-reinforced 0.025 wing skins to which they are attached. Just curious since I have access panels in both wings and they did not require any unusual methods to get them in good and tight in the standard location. Also access to the stall warning mechanism and the aux fuel fittings was fine from the access panel in the standard location. Your 3/4 X 3/4 stiffeners while definitely making the area stronger, may be another case of solving a problem that does not exist. Even if I did not add the stock Van's stall warning, I would still install the access panel so you can install it at a later date, should you or the next owner change their minds. http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/07Wings/wings45.html William http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ -------- Original Message -------- > > Hi "MauleDriver", > > > Secondly, the plans location of the stall warn sensor and necessity to > install an access panel is nonsense. It has been stated on this forum > before that the access panel is poorly located due to the curvature of > the wing. If you install per plans, it will oil-can. I added 3/4 x 3/4 > stiffener angles and of course the longitudinal one(s) need to have the > web fluted to give the flange the proper curvature. All quite easy to > do but time consuming. However after it is all done, access to the > sensor switch (the purpose of the panel in the first place) is difficult > for all but the longest, skinniest arms with full swivel joints at the > wrists, etc. > > Regards, > Dave Lammers > RV-6 flying > RV-10 coming along ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
Date: Apr 08, 2007
Dave, Even with a factory installed stall warning the trial lawyers will find another hundred or so reasons why the builder caused the accident. Mark >From: Dave Lammers <davelammers(at)mchsi.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal >Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 11:39:19 -0500 > >Mark, >Great question, but when you added the modifier "that would avoid a >lawsuit" you made any answer conjecture at best. >Before the modifier was added, I would argue in the affirmative. >You would certainly need to prove that your substitute is as good or better >than what the kit manufacturer recommended. >Difficult at best with any random group of pilots, let alone a group of >folks who haven't a clue of what this is all about. >Regards, >Dave Lammers > >Mark Ritter wrote: > >> >>Dave, >> >>Do you think a fully functioning AOA instrument is a good safety warning >>device and an alternative to the stall warning device supplied by Vans >>that would avoid a lawsuit? >> >>When approaching a stall in my RV-10 a nice lady inside my AOA reminds me >>"angle-angle-push- push". >> >>Mark >>N410MR >> >> >> >> >>>From: Dave Lammers <davelammers(at)mchsi.com> >>>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>>Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal >>>Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 10:27:55 -0500 >>> >>> >>>Hi "MauleDriver", >>> >>>The plans have you remove at least the left tank for the installation of >>>the stall warning sensor switch. All else can be done with the tank >>>installed, unless of course the balloon leak test discovers a leak, then >>>the tank might need to be removed to locate the leak. Here is what I >>>would do if I were doing it again: >>> >>>First, I would leak test with the tanks installed. If no leaks are >>>found, I would install the quantity sensors and fittings, inspect for >>>proper torque of the screws, and be done with the tanks, i.e.: no >>>removal. >>> >>>Secondly, the plans location of the stall warn sensor and necessity to >>>install an access panel is nonsense. It has been stated on this forum >>>before that the access panel is poorly located due to the curvature of >>>the wing. If you install per plans, it will oil-can. I added 3/4 x 3/4 >>>stiffener angles and of course the longitudinal one(s) need to have the >>>web fluted to give the flange the proper curvature. All quite easy to do >>>but time consuming. However after it is all done, access to the sensor >>>switch (the purpose of the panel in the first place) is difficult for all >>>but the longest, skinniest arms with full swivel joints at the wrists, >>>etc. Some have opted to, or advised to, leave out the stall horn. This >>>is my third homebuilt aircraft and the first with any sort of stall or >>>AOA sensor of any kind. I thought seriously about leaving it out. >>>However, I plan on letting others use this aircraft. In the event >>>(heaven forbid) of a serious accident, I can just hear the lawyers >>>talking about the irresponsibility of leaving out a safety warning device >>>that was in the plans and recommended by the manufacturer. (It's a real >>>shame frivolous lawsuits have modified responsible and reasonable >>>behavior-but so be it). >>>Any way, so what would I do? >>>I would transfer the location of the stall warning pilot holes to near >>>the next to outboard rib and mount the stall warning switch on the >>>outboard side of that rib. This allows easy access to the switch for >>>maintenance through the removed wing tip. (Some will argue that the flow >>>is different outside the flap area-true-but that is the reason for >>>access-to make the fine tune adjustments). >>>Advantages of this entire approach: >>>No tank removal (if they pass leak test) >>>Easy access to stall warn switch. >>>No cutting into the wing for an access panel. >>>Lots of time saved for meaningful construction (or flying). >>> >>>Regards, >>>Dave Lammers >>>RV-6 flying >>>RV-10 coming along >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>MauleDriver wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>I'm starting work on my QB wings and trying to think through whether I >>>>should remove the tanks to inspect, install the senders, test for leaks, >>>>ease access for other parts, etc. Any comments? >>>> >>>>I started removing one and immediately ran into some problems with the a >>>>few screws not coming out easily. That alone may be a good reason to >>>>remove, inspect, and re-install. >>>> >>>>Thanks for comments. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. >>http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag3 >> >> >> >> >> >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>Text inserted by Panda Platinum 2005 Internet Security: >> >>This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail >>(spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: >>http://127.0.0.1:6083/Panda?ID=pav_45729&SPAM=true >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com>
Subject: Access panel oil caning
Date: Apr 08, 2007
I added the access panel and the stall warning device per the plans. Adding the access panel has created significant oil caning near the panel on my wing. I used a hand nibbler to cut out the initial access hole. I am pretty sure this is what caused the stretching of that is the culprit of the oil canning. I have not yet added any doublers to prohibit the oil caning but plan on it. -Ben Westfall -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:06 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal Dave, Looking at your signature, I see you are not flying yet. I don't recall any message from flying RV-10 owners that there was oil canning of this access panels. Where did you here this? I don't think they would oil can any more than the un-reinforced 0.025 wing skins to which they are attached. Just curious since I have access panels in both wings and they did not require any unusual methods to get them in good and tight in the standard location. Also access to the stall warning mechanism and the aux fuel fittings was fine from the access panel in the standard location. Your 3/4 X 3/4 stiffeners while definitely making the area stronger, may be another case of solving a problem that does not exist. Even if I did not add the stock Van's stall warning, I would still install the access panel so you can install it at a later date, should you or the next owner change their minds. http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/07Wings/wings45.html William http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2007
Subject: Access panel oil caning
From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com>
Ben, Is this a Flying RV-10? I drilled the holes per instructions and then used a portable jigsaw and my panel (and sourrounding skin) is nice and tight. William http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ -------- Original Message -------- > > I added the access panel and the stall warning device per the plans. Adding > the access panel has created significant oil caning near the panel on my > wing. > > I used a hand nibbler to cut out the initial access hole. I am pretty sure > this is what caused the stretching of that is the culprit of the oil > canning. I have not yet added any doublers to prohibit the oil caning but > plan on it. > > -Ben Westfall > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:06 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com; rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal > > > Dave, > > Looking at your signature, I see you are not flying yet. I don't recall any > message from flying RV-10 owners that there was oil canning of this access > panels. Where did you here this? I don't think they would oil can any > more than the un-reinforced 0.025 wing skins to which they are attached. > Just curious since I have access panels in both wings and they did not > require any unusual methods to get them in good and tight in the standard > location. Also access to the stall warning mechanism and the aux fuel > fittings was fine from the access panel in the standard location. Your 3/4 > X 3/4 stiffeners while definitely making the area stronger, may be another > case of solving a problem that does not exist. > > Even if I did not add the stock Van's stall warning, I would still install > the access panel so you can install it at a later date, should you or the > next owner change their minds. > > http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/07Wings/wings45.html > > William > http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
Date: Apr 08, 2007
You might try the abrasive stuff like "Screw Grab" sold by, i.a., Avery Tools. $6.00 for half an ounce, which should last quite a while. I'm really amazed what a difference it makes! The various covers in the fuselage had a lot of stuck, probably overtorqued, screws. I wrecked a couple and sweated a few more before starting to use Screw Grab, had no trouble afterward. Our local experts tell me that valve grinding compound is used for the same purpose, and I vaguely recall that from years ago. If I'd had some I would have tried it instead. It may be just me, but there seems to be a big difference in quality of interchangeable driver tips. I won't buy anything but the ones Snap On sells, because they work so well for me. Their T-handle ratcheting screwdriver is also a big favorite. Seems like most folks have a favorite stuck fastener release fluid, like WD-40, LPS-3 or whatever. The screws in my kit don't ever seem corroded, but if I start having trouble I'll use that stuff on all the screws that remain to be removed . John Ackerman 40458 QB fuse. On Apr 8, 2007, at 10:43 AM, MauleDriver wrote: > > Well, it looks like I'm going to remove both of them - perhaps the > right for no particular reason. However, the fact that a couple of > screws aren't coming out, I'm glad I'm finding that out now when > it's relatively easy to fix. > > These are my first stripped screw heads - looks like it's time to > drill and use a screw extractor of some sort on at least one of > them. I've never done this before. Looking at an extractor in > Spruce's catalog. What are any of you using? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
Date: Apr 08, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Lapping compound "Clover" is used by Machine shops to set valves. We use it in the airline industry to remove overtorqued fasteners. One drop on the head. It is water soluble too. John ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Ackerman Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 2:13 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal You might try the abrasive stuff like "Screw Grab" sold by, i.a., Avery Tools. $6.00 for half an ounce, which should last quite a while. I'm really amazed what a difference it makes! The various covers in the fuselage had a lot of stuck, probably overtorqued, screws. I wrecked a couple and sweated a few more before starting to use Screw Grab, had no trouble afterward. Our local experts tell me that valve grinding compound is used for the same purpose, and I vaguely recall that from years ago. If I'd had some I would have tried it instead. It may be just me, but there seems to be a big difference in quality of interchangeable driver tips. I won't buy anything but the ones Snap On sells, because they work so well for me. Their T-handle ratcheting screwdriver is also a big favorite. Seems like most folks have a favorite stuck fastener release fluid, like WD-40, LPS-3 or whatever. The screws in my kit don't ever seem corroded, but if I start having trouble I'll use that stuff on all the screws that remain to be removed . John Ackerman 40458 QB fuse. On Apr 8, 2007, at 10:43 AM, MauleDriver wrote: Well, it looks like I'm going to remove both of them - perhaps the right for no particular reason. However, the fact that a couple of screws aren't coming out, I'm glad I'm finding that out now when it's relatively easy to fix. These are my first stripped screw heads - looks like it's time to drill and use a screw extractor of some sort on at least one of them. I've never done this before. Looking at an extractor in Spruce's catalog. What are any of you using? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
From: "jim berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net>
Date: Apr 08, 2007
For removing stuck fasteners start with a drop of lapping compound and a good screwdriver, like a Klein available in the Electrical dept. at Home Depot. Cheaper and easier to find than Snap-On. If that doesn't work get a set of Alden Drillout Extractors, also from Home Depot. These were recommended in Light Plane Maintenance a while back, and they are amazing. When I follow the Alden instructions, their extractors have never failed to work. Jim Berry 40482 Finishing Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105806#105806 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
Date: Apr 08, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
When negligence in the use of the dull screwdriver or too little down force, we resort to a #30 drill bit and then apply a Snap-On 1/8" extractor. The truck comes four times a week with a lifetime replacement policy. We keep a second extractor in our tool box, and set the other one for replacement. That said, it takes about 100 screw heads to wear out the Snap-On. With practice you can tell quickly that you are about to strip the head. Sharp edges on the Phillips and the correct point size make a big difference. For many builders, these techniques will not be needed till down the road when corrosion seals the threads or the head. Most GA hardware is stripped by using the wrong tip size or not paying attention. A teaspoon of lapping compound and a little water in a plastic bottle go a LONG way. John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim berry Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 7:45 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal For removing stuck fasteners start with a drop of lapping compound and a good screwdriver, like a Klein available in the Electrical dept. at Home Depot. Cheaper and easier to find than Snap-On. If that doesn't work get a set of Alden Drillout Extractors, also from Home Depot. These were recommended in Light Plane Maintenance a while back, and they are amazing. When I follow the Alden instructions, their extractors have never failed to work. Jim Berry 40482 Finishing Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105806#105806 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2007
From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Screw Removal
Thanks to all for the advice. I thought I had gotten out in front of this one by first replacing my 20 year old Craftsman Phillips Head before trying the first screw. I figured a new driver, along with a bent arm speed driver, would be the difference makers. Lapping compound would have done it however. Now I have 2 damaged heads that will need extraction in all likehood. Bill "trying to get going with these wings" Watson '605 John W. Cox wrote: > > When negligence in the use of the dull screwdriver or too little down > force, we resort to a #30 drill bit and then apply a Snap-On 1/8" > extractor. The truck comes four times a week with a lifetime > replacement policy. We keep a second extractor in our tool box, and set > the other one for replacement. > > That said, it takes about 100 screw heads to wear out the Snap-On. With > practice you can tell quickly that you are about to strip the head. > Sharp edges on the Phillips and the correct point size make a big > difference. > > For many builders, these techniques will not be needed till down the > road when corrosion seals the threads or the head. Most GA hardware is > stripped by using the wrong tip size or not paying attention. > > A teaspoon of lapping compound and a little water in a plastic bottle go > a LONG way. > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim berry > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 7:45 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal > > > For removing stuck fasteners start with a drop of lapping compound and a > good screwdriver, like a Klein available in the Electrical dept. at Home > Depot. Cheaper and easier to find than Snap-On. If that doesn't work get > a set of Alden Drillout Extractors, also from Home Depot. These were > recommended in Light Plane Maintenance a while back, and they are > amazing. When I follow the Alden instructions, their extractors have > never failed to work. > > Jim Berry > 40482 Finishing > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105806#105806 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Battery Cable
From: "Jon Reining" <jonathan.w.reining(at)wellsfargo.com>
Date: Apr 09, 2007
When I worked as an electrician, we used aluminum cables from the street disconnect to the house panel and at the terminal on each side used Alox, applied liberally. There are other brands as well that perform the same funtion. It is pretty commonly available at electrical supply houses - describe what you're after and they should have it. Jon Reining 40514 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105883#105883 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com>
Subject: Access panel oil caning
Date: Apr 09, 2007
William, No not a flying RV-10 yet. Why do you ask? The leading edge is riveted on to the wing spar and the oil canning is very apparent. Will it be an issue in flight...? I don't care to take the chance. I will add stiffeners at some point before attaching the wings. The oil canning did not exist prior to me adding the access panel. Like I stated before I am pretty sure it is due to nibbling and filing. That process is most likely what stretched the aluminum. -Ben #40579 Fuselage PDX -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 2:06 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Access panel oil caning Ben, Is this a Flying RV-10? I drilled the holes per instructions and then used a portable jigsaw and my panel (and sourrounding skin) is nice and tight. William http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ -------- Original Message -------- > > I added the access panel and the stall warning device per the plans. Adding > the access panel has created significant oil caning near the panel on my > wing. > > I used a hand nibbler to cut out the initial access hole. I am pretty sure > this is what caused the stretching of that is the culprit of the oil > canning. I have not yet added any doublers to prohibit the oil caning but > plan on it. > > -Ben Westfall > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:06 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com; rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal > > > Dave, > > Looking at your signature, I see you are not flying yet. I don't recall any > message from flying RV-10 owners that there was oil canning of this access > panels. Where did you here this? I don't think they would oil can any > more than the un-reinforced 0.025 wing skins to which they are attached. > Just curious since I have access panels in both wings and they did not > require any unusual methods to get them in good and tight in the standard > location. Also access to the stall warning mechanism and the aux fuel > fittings was fine from the access panel in the standard location. Your 3/4 > X 3/4 stiffeners while definitely making the area stronger, may be another > case of solving a problem that does not exist. > > Even if I did not add the stock Van's stall warning, I would still install > the access panel so you can install it at a later date, should you or the > next owner change their minds. > > http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/07Wings/wings45.html > > William > http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2007
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-10 vs. Turbo 210
On Saturday I flew up to Driggs Idaho from Salt Lake City with a 1977 Turbo 210. This was my first time I had flown with any plane other than an RV. Well, that is not true, I flew to Bear Lake once with a Super Cub but didn't really ever get a speed comparision, I will just say it is about alot!! I had the RV-10 fully loaded (full fuel, 4 people). Of course the RV-10 out climbs the 210 but didn't really do any comparison there. I did some sight seeing and let him get away from me while we were climbing and then spotted him about 1 mile in front of us. We were both at 10,500 ft. I had the RV-10 at 19.2 inches, 2360 RPM burning 12.5 gph and our ground speed was 171 knots when his was 163 knots. The 210 was buring 18.5 gph and he had four people in the plane as well. Once I caught him, I flew at 18.0 inches to fly formation (12 gph). He was pretty impressed with the RV-10. The smile you get on your face when you pass a turbo charged 210 is great. I know he would have beat me higher but on an hour flight he probably won't with the climb. Plus, once we got there he had to start slowing down 25 miles out to start cooling his turbo. I pushed the throttle in, flew past the Grand Teton, and then landed about 2 minutes behind. I had some hiking freinds in the back and we all said, "Well, we are close enough to the Grand Teton now that we can say we hiked it. Good enough for me!......check" Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: GPS Antenna Installation
Date: Apr 10, 2007
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
G'day all, I have decided to mount my GPS antenna on the turtledeck. After drilling the holes for the windshield support tube, I know how thick the forward half of the turtle deck is. So I decided to install the antenna just aft of the transition step. I drilled the first hole last night only to find that the deck thickness is still around 1/2" and the screw studs on the antenna are too short. I have just ordered some 1/4" 4130 Steel tube to tap for the antenna stud screws, but it is on back order. Has anyone else mounted the antenna in this location and if so, how did you extend the antenna studs? Cheers, Ron #187 finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2007
From: Robert Wright <flywrights(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal
Dave, You made an important distinction that shouldn't go unheeded. First, we have a kit manufacturer, and then we have an airplane manufacturer. Everyone, please feel free to manufacture your own airplane with pieces provided by the kit manufacturer, whether that airplane includes a stall warning tab or an AoA system. The kit manufacturer is saving you time and money; you get to adjust to suit your desires. I'm no lawyer, but I do believe that the airplane manufacturer will always bear more liability than the kit manufacturer, especially if the airplane manufacturer strays from the kit manufacturer's design. Rob Wright #392 stuck trying to decently spray the interior ----- Original Message ---- From: Dave Lammers <davelammers(at)mchsi.com> Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2007 11:39:19 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal Mark, Great question, but when you added the modifier "that would avoid a lawsuit" you made any answer conjecture at best. Before the modifier was added, I would argue in the affirmative. You would certainly need to prove that your substitute is as good or better than what the kit manufacturer recommended. Difficult at best with any random group of pilots, let alone a group of folks who haven't a clue of what this is all about. Regards, Dave Lammers Mark Ritter wrote: Dave, Do you think a fully functioning AOA instrument is a good safety warning device and an alternative to the stall warning device supplied by Vans that would avoid a lawsuit? When approaching a stall in my RV-10 a nice lady inside my AOA reminds me "angle-angle-push- push". Mark N410MR From: Dave Lammers <davelammers(at)mchsi.com> Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wing Fuel Tank Removal Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 10:27:55 -0500 Hi "MauleDriver", The plans have you remove at least the left tank for the installation of the stall warning sensor switch. All else can be done with the tank installed, unless of course the balloon leak test discovers a leak, then the tank might need to be removed to locate the leak. Here is what I would do if I were doing it again: First, I would leak test with the tanks installed. If no leaks are found, I would install the quantity sensors and fittings, inspect for proper torque of the screws, and be done with the tanks, i.e.: no removal. Secondly, the plans location of the stall warn sensor and necessity to install an access panel is nonsense. It has been stated on this forum before that the access panel is poorly located due to the curvature of the wing. If you install per plans, it will oil-can. I added 3/4 x 3/4 stiffener angles and of course the longitudinal one(s) need to have the web fluted to give the flange the proper curvature. All quite easy to do but time consuming. However after it is all done, access to the sensor switch (the purpose of the panel in the first place) is difficult for all but the longest, skinniest arms with full swivel joints at the wrists, etc. Some have opted to, or advised to, leave out the stall horn. This is my third homebuilt aircraft and the first with any sort of stall or AOA sensor of any kind. I thought seriously about leaving it out. However, I plan on letting others use this aircraft. In the event (heaven forbid) of a serious accident, I can just hear the lawyers talking about the irresponsibility of leaving out a safety warning device that was in the plans and recommended by the manufacturer. (It's a real shame frivolous lawsuits have modified responsible and reasonable behavior-but so be it). Any way, so what would I do? I would transfer the location of the stall warning pilot holes to near the next to outboard rib and mount the stall warning switch on the outboard side of that rib. This allows easy access to the switch for maintenance through the removed wing tip. (Some will argue that the flow is different outside the flap area-true-but that is the reason for access-to make the fine tune adjustments). Advantages of this entire approach: No tank removal (if they pass leak test) Easy access to stall warn switch. No cutting into the wing for an access panel. Lots of time saved for meaningful construction (or flying). Regards, Dave Lammers RV-6 flying RV-10 coming along MauleDriver wrote: I'm starting work on my QB wings and trying to think through whether I should remove the tanks to inspect, install the senders, test for leaks, ease access for other parts, etc. Any comments? I started removing one and immediately ran into some problems with the a few screws not coming out easily. That alone may be a good reason to remove, inspect, and re-install. Thanks for comments. _________________________________________________________________ Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag3 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Text inserted by Panda Platinum 2005 Internet Security: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://127.0.0.1:6083/Panda?ID=pav_45729&SPAM=true --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Dick & Jerry's 10 flys
Date: Apr 09, 2007
Dick & Jerry VanGrunsven have flown their 10. See the first flight hobbs meter on the Van's web sight home page. That was the paint scheme I was going to use...dang. :) Dick Sipp RV10 finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Mckervey" <mckervey(at)edge.net>
Subject: Re: GPS Antenna Installation
Date: Apr 10, 2007
GPS Antenna InstallationI ordered 8-32 standoffs from Mouser, Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: McGANN, Ron To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 6:26 PM Subject: RV10-List: GPS Antenna Installation G'day all, I have decided to mount my GPS antenna on the turtledeck. After drilling the holes for the windshield support tube, I know how thick the forward half of the turtle deck is. So I decided to install the antenna just aft of the transition step. I drilled the first hole last night only to find that the deck thickness is still around 1/2" and the screw studs on the antenna are too short. I have just ordered some 1/4" 4130 Steel tube to tap for the antenna stud screws, but it is on back order. Has anyone else mounted the antenna in this location and if so, how did you extend the antenna studs? Cheers, Ron #187 finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net>
Subject:
Date: Apr 10, 2007
It's nearly time to paint those areas of the interior that will not be upholstered, so Marlys and I are looking at interiors and trying to decide what needs to be painted (we're planning a "full" interior). We're looking for photos...Does anyone know of another service besides Abby's Flightline interiors and Classic Aero Designs that might have pictures on a website? Did anybody do it herself, and if so, do you have any thoughts to share? John Ackerman 40458 QB fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: : RV10-List:
John, Jesse's posted pictures of his interior package on his web site @ http://www.saintaviation.com/interior/ Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ John Ackerman wrote: > > It's nearly time to paint those areas of the interior that will not be > upholstered, so Marlys and I are looking at interiors and trying to > decide what needs to be painted (we're planning a "full" interior). > We're looking for photos...Does anyone know of another service besides > Abby's Flightline interiors and Classic Aero Designs that might have > pictures on a website? > > Did anybody do it herself, and if so, do you have any thoughts to share? > > John Ackerman 40458 QB fuselage > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Finish on the "finished" composite parts?
Date: Apr 11, 2007
From: <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero>
How much "finish" work is required on the composite parts like wingtips, etc., that already have a "finish" on them? Do they still need pinhole work or are they pretty decent? TDT 40025 @#@#)()*^ wheel fairings Tim Dawson-Townsend Aurora Flight Sciences tdt(at)aurora.aero 617-401-2522 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Finish on the "finished" composite parts?
It's a matter of preference, the wing tips and emp tips are gel coated and most of the pinholes are filled. However if you hold them up to the light you can see the weave pattern of the fiberglass cloth through the gel coat. Additionally, many of the tips are not 'perfect matches' with their aluminum mating parts and will require 'finish' work to get them faired to the same level. And the Cabin Cover...... Well that's a Phd project in 'finishing'. TDT - where you been hiding???? Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero wrote: > > How much finish work is required on the composite parts like > wingtips, etc., that already have a finish on them? Do they still > need pinhole work or are they pretty decent? > > TDT > > 40025 > > @#@#)()*^ wheel fairings > > Tim Dawson-Townsend > > Aurora Flight Sciences > > tdt(at)aurora.aero > > 617-401-2522 > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Finish on the "finished" composite parts?
Date: Apr 11, 2007
All of the gel-coated parts have a little bit of an uneven surface as if the coat shrunk a little in the checkerboard pattern of the glass cloth. Using filler primer usually takes care of most of this, especially if you spray a couple coats and sand it between coats. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com 352-427-0285 -----Original Message----- From: tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero Sent: 4/11/2007 10:42 AM Subject: RV10-List: Finish on the "finished" composite parts? How much "finish" work is required on the composite parts like wingtips, etc., that already have a "finish" on them? Do they still need pinhole work or are they pretty decent? TDT 40025 @#@#)()*^ wheel fairings Tim Dawson-Townsend Aurora Flight Sciences tdt(at)aurora.aero 617-401-2522 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2007
From: Niko <owl40188(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: New GRT Screens
Looks like GRT will be coming out with 2 different high resolution screens. One of them has a graphics accelerator built in which I am assuming is going to be used for a more detailed moving map/ synthetic vision. If they do it should be a sweet system in the low to mid teens. It also appears that they split the screens horizontally for the engine instruments similar to AFS. Anyone have any more details on these? Niko 40188 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "SteinAir, Inc." <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: New GRT Screens
Date: Apr 11, 2007
Not just yet, but I'll have some on display at OSH that should be pretty close to what they are coming out with. Until then I'm afraid we all just have to wait. On a completely separate subject, I just received our first Garmin G900X system here today and it's flipping amazing. I wish I had the money to put on in my own plane! Cheers, Stein. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Niko Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 10:59 AM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: New GRT Screens Looks like GRT will be coming out with 2 different high resolution screens. One of them has a graphics accelerator built in which I am assuming is going to be used for a more detailed moving map/ synthetic vision. If they do it should be a sweet system in the low to mid teens. It also appears that they split the screens horizontally for the engine instruments similar to AFS. Anyone have any more details on these? Niko 40188 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2007
From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Stall Warning - Dimpling nutplate holes in QB rib
I'm stumped. I'm trying to dimple 4 holes in a wing rib for the nutplates that hold the the stall warning micro switch. None of my yokes will reach the holes in the QB wing I noticed that the SB wing builders are mounting the microswitch before assembling the wing. Has anyone been successful dimpling these holes on a QB? I know there is a wide neck yoke that accepts dimpling dies that will work but $100+ says find another solution. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2007
From: Niko <owl40188(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: New GRT Screens
I actually emailed the engineer at GRT and got some info. The new HX screens will have a high resolution moving map and synthetic vision. GRT believes that they will be better than what Bluemountain and Chelton are offering because of the 3D graphics accelerator thats built in. They are also going to have airport diagrams. Niko 40188 ----- Original Message ---- From: "SteinAir, Inc." <stein(at)steinair.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 12:45:40 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: New GRT Screens Not just yet, but I'll have some on display at OSH that should be pretty close to what they are coming out with. Until then I'm afraid we all just have to wait. On a completely separate subject, I just received our first Garmin G900X system here today and it's flipping amazing. I wish I had the money to put on in my own plane! Cheers, Stein. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Niko Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 10:59 AM Subject: RV10-List: New GRT Screens Looks like GRT will be coming out with 2 different high resolution screens. One of them has a graphics accelerator built in which I am assuming is going to be used for a more detailed moving map/ synthetic vision. If they do it should be a sweet system in the low to mid teens. It also appears that they split the screens horizontally for the engine instruments similar to AFS. Anyone have any more details on these? Niko 40188 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris" <toaster73(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Stall Warning - Dimpling nutplate holes in QB rib
Date: Apr 11, 2007
Couldn't you use a pop rivet dimpler. -Chris #40072 ----- Original Message ----- From: "MauleDriver" <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 3:47 PM Subject: RV10-List: Stall Warning - Dimpling nutplate holes in QB rib > > I'm stumped. I'm trying to dimple 4 holes in a wing rib for the > nutplates that hold the the stall warning micro switch. None of my > yokes will reach the holes in the QB wing > > I noticed that the SB wing builders are mounting the microswitch before > assembling the wing. Has anyone been successful dimpling these holes on > a QB? > > I know there is a wide neck yoke that accepts dimpling dies that will > work but $100+ says find another solution. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Stall Warning - Dimpling nutplate holes in QB rib
From: "dmaib(at)mac.com" <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Date: Apr 11, 2007
I used the dimpling kit for tight spaces that came with my tool kit. It uses the pop rivet puller to pull the dies together on a shaft. (not a very good explanation, I am afraid) -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106364#106364 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Apr 11, 2007
Subject: New GRT Screens
Stein, You mean Garmin doesn't give their best dealers a DEMO model to use in a plane? Maybe they'll fly you to KC sometime......................:) DEAN just a few weeks away from checking the KMA24 ________________________________________________________________________ Interested in getting caught up on today's news? Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines. http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/f ront.htm?csp=24
Stein,

You mean Garmin doesn't give their best dealers a DEMO model to use i n a plane? Maybe they'll fly you to KC sometime................... ...:)

DEAN

just a few weeks away from checking the KMA24

______________________ __________________________________________________
Interested in getting caught up on today's news?
Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines.

________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2007
From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Stall Warning - Dimpling nutplate holes in QB rib
I'll answer my own question here... I think I need a wide neck yoke. I already have one but it is a thin nose yoke doesn't accept dimpling dies. Since I'm done with the tail feathers, I'm thinking that I can try to have a friend with a mill, drill a hole in the yoke to accept the die. I'm still curious whether others have run into this. Mounting the stall warning switch is a job best done before wing assembly. Even though the manual has this step done long after assembly, I noticed that at least 2 builders (Deems & ?) did the dimpling before assembly. For the QB, it would best be done during QB assembly. Oh well MauleDriver wrote: > > I'm stumped. I'm trying to dimple 4 holes in a wing rib for the > nutplates that hold the the stall warning micro switch. None of my > yokes will reach the holes in the QB wing > > I noticed that the SB wing builders are mounting the microswitch > before assembling the wing. Has anyone been successful dimpling these > holes on a QB? > > I know there is a wide neck yoke that accepts dimpling dies that will > work but $100+ says find another solution. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2007
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>
Subject: Stall warning/dimples
Have you tried the dimple dies that use the pop rivet gun? You can get them thru Avery tools or aircraft tool supply. The Aircraft tool supply number is 5102D-3/32 and cost is listed at $5.95 Fred Williams ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Stall Warning - Dimpling nutplate holes in QB rib
Date: Apr 11, 2007
I don't recommend installing it until the wings are final-installed on the plane. That little tab sticking out is a great thing to catch stuff on and setting it down on the leading edge once make the stall warning system useless (although some on here would argue that is it useless to start with). Even when it is installed it is in a terrible location and easy to lean on when fueling (ask me how many times I have done that). I would recommend installing it and rigging it and then taking it off and putting it away until you are just about ready to fly. The nutplates can be a pain, but if you have assembled it once, then it should be a little easier and you will know it will fit. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 5:25 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stall Warning - Dimpling nutplate holes in QB rib I'll answer my own question here... I think I need a wide neck yoke. I already have one but it is a thin nose yoke doesn't accept dimpling dies. Since I'm done with the tail feathers, I'm thinking that I can try to have a friend with a mill, drill a hole in the yoke to accept the die. I'm still curious whether others have run into this. Mounting the stall warning switch is a job best done before wing assembly. Even though the manual has this step done long after assembly, I noticed that at least 2 builders (Deems & ?) did the dimpling before assembly. For the QB, it would best be done during QB assembly. Oh well MauleDriver wrote: > > I'm stumped. I'm trying to dimple 4 holes in a wing rib for the > nutplates that hold the the stall warning micro switch. None of my > yokes will reach the holes in the QB wing > > I noticed that the SB wing builders are mounting the microswitch > before assembling the wing. Has anyone been successful dimpling these > holes on a QB? > > I know there is a wide neck yoke that accepts dimpling dies that will > work but $100+ says find another solution. > -- 10:57 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Stall Warning - Dimpling nutplate holes in QB rib
Date: Apr 11, 2007
For one of my larger sizes, I have a die (Male) with the correct size hole in it. A nutplate goes behind (I built one on an aluminum stick) and the die is tightened on the nutplate with an allen head screw...works fine..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "MauleDriver" <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 3:47 PM Subject: RV10-List: Stall Warning - Dimpling nutplate holes in QB rib > > I'm stumped. I'm trying to dimple 4 holes in a wing rib for the > nutplates that hold the the stall warning micro switch. None of my yokes > will reach the holes in the QB wing > > I noticed that the SB wing builders are mounting the microswitch before > assembling the wing. Has anyone been successful dimpling these holes on a > QB? > > I know there is a wide neck yoke that accepts dimpling dies that will > work but $100+ says find another solution. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuel Tank Strainers
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Apr 11, 2007
Getting ready to leak test my QB Wing tanks and was wondering about the Fuel Tank Strainers. I assume that they should be torqued in but they should be able to come back out, right? I'm thinking either loc-tite or teflon tape, but I'm a newbie on this. John -------- #40572 Empennage done, starting QB Wings N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106442#106442 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2007
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank Strainers
You don't want teflon tape anywhere it could leave little slivers in your fuel or oil systems. Great for home plumbing, not for aircraft. On 4/11/07, johngoodman wrote: > > Getting ready to leak test my QB Wing tanks and was wondering about the Fuel Tank Strainers. I assume that they should be torqued in but they should be able to come back out, right? I'm thinking either loc-tite or teflon tape, but I'm a newbie on this. > > John > > -------- > #40572 Empennage done, starting QB Wings > N711JG reserved > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106442#106442 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2007
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank Strainers
John, Order a tube (I bought a can, duh, enough for two lifes) of fuel lube from Aircraft Spruce or others...it is used on all the threads in the fuel system, no loctite or tape.. Rick S. 40185 Finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Cram" <johncram(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Stall Warning - Dimpling nutplate holes in QB rib
Date: Apr 12, 2007
Would a pop rivit dimple die work? good for tight spaces. John Cram 40569 waiting on QB wings & fuse delivery next week >From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stall Warning - Dimpling nutplate holes in QB rib >Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 18:17:42 -0400 > > >For one of my larger sizes, I have a die (Male) with the correct size hole >in it. A nutplate goes behind (I built one on an aluminum stick) and the >die is tightened on the nutplate with an allen head screw...works fine..... > >----- Original Message ----- From: "MauleDriver" <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> >To: >Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 3:47 PM >Subject: RV10-List: Stall Warning - Dimpling nutplate holes in QB rib > > >> >>I'm stumped. I'm trying to dimple 4 holes in a wing rib for the >>nutplates that hold the the stall warning micro switch. None of my yokes >>will reach the holes in the QB wing >> >>I noticed that the SB wing builders are mounting the microswitch before >>assembling the wing. Has anyone been successful dimpling these holes on a >>QB? >> >>I know there is a wide neck yoke that accepts dimpling dies that will >>work but $100+ says find another solution. >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Stall Warning - Dimpling nutplate holes in QB rib
From: "Michael Wellenzohn" <michael(at)wellenzohn.net>
Date: Apr 12, 2007
I used the poprivet dimpler which came with the Avery Toolkit. Worked fine, no issues at all. Michael (who is getting the fuse kit today :D ) http://www.wellenzohn.net -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106455#106455 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank Strainers
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Apr 12, 2007
Thanks for the feedback; I sort of suspected that teflon tape was a no-no. It just so happens Aircraft Spruce is 4 miles away from me, so I'll get the tube of fuel lube. Thanks again. John -------- #40572 Empennage done, starting QB Wings N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106471#106471 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cloudvalley(at)comcast.net
Subject: RV10 tail kit
Date: Apr 12, 2007
Hello, We are writing to let the group know that because of time contraints (our age) and the time needed to sell our house before we could have purchased the rest of the kit, regrettably, we are going to sell our tail kit we purchased for the RV10. We guess we were overly exuberant in our time estimate.We attended a formal one-on-one class at Synergy Air in Eugene, Oregon to finish the empennage, had the tail cone section and longerons crated at VANS, have done a complete inventory, and everything is here. The empennage turned out beautifully, thanks to Synergy, and we were under close supervision. We used the tools at Synergy to construct our empennage but we also bought an almost new set of tools with rivet gun, Sioux drill, Cleveland Main Squeeze, C frame, etc, worth $1600 new, which we can include in a package deal. If anyone is interested in buying our tail kit, Please e-mail us at cloudvalley(at)comcast.net or call us at (541) 998-2755 . Our cell is (541) 520-7058. Ask for Ruth or Brian Preston. We are sorry we won't be able to go via the building route. It would have been exciting. We have decided that when we sell we will buy a production plane so we can fly sooner! Thanks. Brian and Ruth Preston #40666
Hello,

We are writing to let the group know that because of time contraints (our age) and the time needed to sell our house before we could have purchased the rest of the kit, regrettably, we are going to sell our tail kit we purchased for the RV10. We guess we were overly exuberant in our time estimate.We attended a formal one-on-one class at Synergy Air in Eugene, Oregon to finish the empennage, had the tail cone section and longerons crated at VANS, have done a complete inventory, and everything is here. The empennage turned out beautifully, thanks to Synergy, and we were under close supervision. We used the tools at Synergy to construct our empennage but we also bought an almost new set of tools  with rivet gun, Sioux drill, Cleveland Main Squeeze, C frame, etc, worth $1600 new, which we can include in a package deal.

If anyone is interested in buying our tail kit, Please e-mail us at cloudvalley(at)comcast.net or call us at (541) 998-2755 . Our cell is (541) 520-7058. Ask for Ruth or Brian Preston.

We are sorry we won't be able to go via the building route. It would have been exciting. We have decided that when we sell we will buy a  production plane so we can fly sooner! Thanks.

Brian and Ruth Preston

#40666
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: QB Wings: AOA and HID Lights
From: "Jon Reining" <jonathan.w.reining(at)wellsfargo.com>
Date: Apr 12, 2007
As we are preparing to start on our QB wings, wondering what others are recommending for HID lights and AOA? I've just assumed going the Duckworks HID route, unless I hear somebody say otherwise. I'd prefer an AOA over a stall tab, especially with the the negative comments made recently. Any recommendations though? Jon Reining (with dad Bill) 40514 - working on the final parts of the tailcone and ever so close moving on to the QB wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106557#106557 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 12, 2007
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: QB Wings: AOA and HID Lights
For my 6A - I have a Duckworks in each wing and a PSS (now AFS I think) AOA pro in the left wing. When I get to that point again....I'll do it again..... -----Original Message----- >From: Jon Reining <jonathan.w.reining(at)wellsfargo.com> >Sent: Apr 12, 2007 3:58 PM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: QB Wings: AOA and HID Lights > > >As we are preparing to start on our QB wings, wondering what others are recommending for HID lights and AOA? > >I've just assumed going the Duckworks HID route, unless I hear somebody say otherwise. > >I'd prefer an AOA over a stall tab, especially with the the negative comments made recently. Any recommendations though? > >Jon Reining (with dad Bill) >40514 - working on the final parts of the tailcone and ever so close moving on to the QB wings > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106557#106557 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Rosen Sun Visor Group Buy
Date: Apr 12, 2007
Sorry for the quality, but I have attached some pictures of our Rosen Sun Visor installation. I am getting a quote on our custom mount from a local machine shop and am getting a quote from Rosen on a group buy for the visors. We tried to find a place on the sides to install a visor, but there just isn't a good place to put it that won't block the pilot's vision when he isn't using the visor. This is a 3-axis visor, so it can be used to block sun from the pilot or copilot's front anywhere in the windshield and can also block the pilot's right or copilot's left. Unfortunately we couldn't find any way to block the sun from the pilot's left or copilot's right except a suction cup or static cling piece. The visor base would mount on the cabin top using two of the 4 screws that hold the front bar to the cabin top. Please let me know off the list if you are interested and I will put a list together and let you know when I know how much it would cost. I am hoping to keep it under $200 including the visor (big or small lense) and the custom black-anodized base. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: QB Wings: AOA and HID Lights
Date: Apr 12, 2007
I have the AFS AOA (no stall warning) and love it. Makes for pretty consistent landings under a wide variety of load and wind conditions. The AOA comes calibrated for the RV-10. Mark N410MR >From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wings: AOA and HID Lights >Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 17:06:41 -0400 (GMT-04:00) > > >For my 6A - I have a Duckworks in each wing and a PSS (now AFS I think) AOA >pro in the left wing. >When I get to that point again....I'll do it again..... > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Jon Reining <jonathan.w.reining(at)wellsfargo.com> > >Sent: Apr 12, 2007 3:58 PM > >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: RV10-List: QB Wings: AOA and HID Lights > > > > > > >As we are preparing to start on our QB wings, wondering what others are >recommending for HID lights and AOA? > > > >I've just assumed going the Duckworks HID route, unless I hear somebody >say otherwise. > > > >I'd prefer an AOA over a stall tab, especially with the the negative >comments made recently. Any recommendations though? > > > >Jon Reining (with dad Bill) > >40514 - working on the final parts of the tailcone and ever so close >moving on to the QB wings > > > > > > > > > >Read this topic online here: > > > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106557#106557 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rosen Sun Visor Group Buy
Date: Apr 12, 2007
From: "Bobby J. Hughes" <bhughes(at)qnsi.net>
Jessie, At $200 count me in. Enjoyed our visit at Lockhart. Bobby Hughes 40116 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 3:08 PM Subject: RV10-List: Rosen Sun Visor Group Buy Sorry for the quality, but I have attached some pictures of our Rosen Sun Visor installation. I am getting a quote on our custom mount from a local machine shop and am getting a quote from Rosen on a group buy for the visors. We tried to find a place on the sides to install a visor, but there just isn't a good place to put it that won't block the pilot's vision when he isn't using the visor. This is a 3-axis visor, so it can be used to block sun from the pilot or copilot's front anywhere in the windshield and can also block the pilot's right or copilot's left. Unfortunately we couldn't find any way to block the sun from the pilot's left or copilot's right except a suction cup or static cling piece. The visor base would mount on the cabin top using two of the 4 screws that hold the front bar to the cabin top. Please let me know off the list if you are interested and I will put a list together and let you know when I know how much it would cost. I am hoping to keep it under $200 including the visor (big or small lense) and the custom black-anodized base. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Boone" <david555(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Rosen Sun Visor Group Buy
Date: Apr 12, 2007
Count me in. David Boone 40138 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bobby J. Hughes To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 6:49 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rosen Sun Visor Group Buy Jessie, At $200 count me in. Enjoyed our visit at Lockhart. Bobby Hughes 40116 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 3:08 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Rosen Sun Visor Group Buy Sorry for the quality, but I have attached some pictures of our Rosen Sun Visor installation. I am getting a quote on our custom mount from a local machine shop and am getting a quote from Rosen on a group buy for the visors. We tried to find a place on the sides to install a visor, but there just isn't a good place to put it that won't block the pilot's vision when he isn't using the visor. This is a 3-axis visor, so it can be used to block sun from the pilot or copilot's front anywhere in the windshield and can also block the pilot's right or copilot's left. Unfortunately we couldn't find any way to block the sun from the pilot's left or copilot's right except a suction cup or static cling piece. The visor base would mount on the cabin top using two of the 4 screws that hold the front bar to the cabin top. Please let me know off the list if you are interested and I will put a list together and let you know when I know how much it would cost. I am hoping to keep it under $200 including the visor (big or small lense) and the custom black-anodized base. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Rosen Sun Visor Group Buy
Date: Apr 12, 2007
Jesse, count me in. Rene' Felker 40322 N423CF 801-721-6080 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 3:08 PM Subject: RV10-List: Rosen Sun Visor Group Buy Sorry for the quality, but I have attached some pictures of our Rosen Sun Visor installation. I am getting a quote on our custom mount from a local machine shop and am getting a quote from Rosen on a group buy for the visors. We tried to find a place on the sides to install a visor, but there just isn't a good place to put it that won't block the pilot's vision when he isn't using the visor. This is a 3-axis visor, so it can be used to block sun from the pilot or copilot's front anywhere in the windshield and can also block the pilot's right or copilot's left. Unfortunately we couldn't find any way to block the sun from the pilot's left or copilot's right except a suction cup or static cling piece. The visor base would mount on the cabin top using two of the 4 screws that hold the front bar to the cabin top. Please let me know off the list if you are interested and I will put a list together and let you know when I know how much it would cost. I am hoping to keep it under $200 including the visor (big or small lense) and the custom black-anodized base. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rosen Sun Visor Group Buy
From: "jim berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net>
Date: Apr 12, 2007
Jesse, The holes on my brace are 3/4" ctc in both axes. And please put me down for a set also. Jim Berry 40482 Finishing Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106637#106637 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Apr 13, 2007
Subject: Rosen Sun Visor Group Buy
I saw a RV10 with Rosen mounts in the outer corners.........the mount bo lts go thru the door channel. Visors swing to cover the windshield or r otate to cover the door windows. I did not care for more screws in the door channels BUT it is better than thru the cabin top or only having O NE visor. Dean 40449 P.S. Anyone putting UHMV tape over the top of the cowl where the top co wl pins are to protect the paint when inserting the pins? Also consider ing putting it on the front of the cowl around the spinner hole to prote ct the paint when removing or putting the lower/upper cowl on. Hate to rub it against the spinner and scratch the paint ...........thinking tha t clear UHMV tape would help and not detract from the looks? ________________________________________________________________________ Interested in getting caught up on today's news? Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines. http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/f ront.htm?csp=24
I saw a RV10 with Rosen mounts in the outer corners.........the mount bolts go thru the door channel. Visors swing to cover the w indshield or rotate to cover the door windows.   I did not car e for more screws in the door channels BUT it is better than thru the ca bin top or only having ONE visor.

Dean 40449

P.S. Anyone putting UHMV tape over the top of the cowl where th e top cowl pins are to protect the paint when inserting the pins? Also considering putting it on the front of the cowl around the spinner hole to protect the paint when removing or putting the lower/upper cowl on. Hate to rub it against the spinner and scratch the paint ..... ......thinking that clear UHMV tape would help and not detract from the looks?

______________________ __________________________________________________
Interested in getting caught up on today's news?
Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines.

________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: QB Wings: AOA and HID Lights
Date: Apr 13, 2007
I purchased CreativeAir LED nav lights, strobe kit, and integrated HID lights. http://www.creativair.com/ Everything fits in the wing tips. Have not installed them yet though. Dave Leikam 40496 Starting QB Wings ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Reining" <jonathan.w.reining(at)wellsfargo.com> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 1:58 PM Subject: RV10-List: QB Wings: AOA and HID Lights > > > As we are preparing to start on our QB wings, wondering what others are > recommending for HID lights and AOA? > > I've just assumed going the Duckworks HID route, unless I hear somebody > say otherwise. > > I'd prefer an AOA over a stall tab, especially with the the negative > comments made recently. Any recommendations though? > > Jon Reining (with dad Bill) > 40514 - working on the final parts of the tailcone and ever so close > moving on to the QB wings > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106557#106557 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sligtly damaged QB Fuse
From: "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net>
Date: Apr 13, 2007
Hello, I received yesterday my QB fuse and there is a dent in the front of the firewall where you attach the cowling. Do you thing it is ok to just bend it up again and make it straight? Any suggestions which method would work best? Picture Thanks Michael www.wellenzohn.net -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106649#106649 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage11_777.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 13, 2007
From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net>
Subject: Re: Sligtly damaged QB Fuse
Michael, a picture 600*400 attached or on your website would help to judge. CU 2morrow in Bern I hope! Werner Michael Wellenzohn wrote: > > Hello, > > I received yesterday my QB fuse and there is a dent in the front of the firewall where you attach the cowling. Do you thing it is ok to just bend it up again and make it straight? > Any suggestions which method would work best? > > Picture > > Thanks > Michael > > www.wellenzohn.net > > -------- > RV-10 builder (wings) > #511 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106649#106649 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage11_777.jpg > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sligtly damaged QB Fuse
From: "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net>
Date: Apr 13, 2007
Hello Werner, yes I'll be in Bern tomorrow with the Cessna 177 HB-CXA. I actually did add a picture. Thats the link to my website. http://www.wellenzohn.net/Fuselage/fuselage11.jpg C U tomorrow Michael -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106700#106700 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Body Filler
Date: Apr 13, 2007
This has come up in some of my personal conversations with others as well as on the list in the past, I think, but I wanted to share my opinion with the whole group. When using body filler and prepping for paint on the cabin top, I highly recommend not covering up all of the screws that are used. Most things that are screwed on are going to end up needing to be removed at some point down the road, and having the screw head showing makes it really nice to get to. It is no problem to paint over them, but filling them in (which we did on N256H) is, IMHO, better left undone. Especially door hinge screws, seat belt screws and the maybe even the screws that hold the bar to the cabin top. If you are worried about a leak, putting a little bit of silicone or something like that in the hole before pushing the screw through should take care of that. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kilopapa(at)antelecom.net
Subject: Re: Sligtly damaged QB Fuse
Date: Apr 13, 2007
Michael, I would submit that question to Van's. Kevin 40494 > > >Hello, > >I received yesterday my QB fuse and there is a dent in the >front of the firewall where you attach the cowling. Do you >thing it is ok to just bend it up again and make it >straight? Any suggestions which method would work best? > >Picture > >Thanks >Michael > >www.wellenzohn.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Everybody doing taxes?
The list has been unusually quiet this past week or so. Where is everybody? I myself have been quieter than normal, as I'm trapped in fiberglass hell once more and the itching and twitching isn't compatible w/ typing ;-) . So what's everybody up too? Have all of you guys finished and are too busy flying? Who has the latest modification that they want to share? Who's getting close to flying? Dean?? What about Sun N' Fun We should get a list of things that people would like information on for those of us that aren't able to attend. Other than the new GRT screens and features what else is on everybody's mind? Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2007
From: James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net>
Subject: Torque Specs for NPT fittings
Does anyone know what the torque specs for the 1/8" and 3/8" NPT fittings are? I can't seem to find them anywhere... -Jim 40384 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Apr 15, 2007
Subject: Re: Everybody doing taxes?
Speaking of MODS..................where has JOHN COX been? Do we need another HOT topic to get him typing again? mmmmmmmmmm.........maybe he started building vs replying? nah.........:) Dean 40449 Sanding fiberglass...........filling pinholes. ________________________________________________________________________ Interested in getting caught up on today's news? Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines. http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/f ront.htm?csp=24
Speaking of MODS..................where has JOHN COX been? ; Do we need another HOT topic to get him typing again? mmmm mmmmmm.........maybe he started building vs replying? nah......... :)

Dean   40449

Sanding fiberglass...........filling pinholes.

______________________ __________________________________________________
Interested in getting caught up on today's news?
Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines.

________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Everybody doing taxes?
Date: Apr 15, 2007
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
I just wrote a check for a zero time RV-10 with Garmin 900X including a back up dual Chelton system, air conditioning, full leather interior, Sam James cowl and wheel pants plus an amazing 5 color paint job! Unfortunately the check was to the federal government and the state of California. Darn..... Looking forward to my very first Sun-N-Fun. Time to make some electronics decisions. Robin Marks RV-4 Sold RV-6A 300 hours RV-10 parts, parts, parts ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Cram" <johncram(at)msn.com>
Subject: Everybody doing taxes?
Date: Apr 15, 2007
I thought it was because Tim took a week off so everybody else did the same. >From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: Everybody doing taxes? >Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 11:23:48 -0700 > > >The list has been unusually quiet this past week or so. Where is everybody? >I myself have been quieter than normal, as I'm trapped in fiberglass hell >once more and the itching and twitching isn't compatible w/ typing ;-) . > >So what's everybody up too? >Have all of you guys finished and are too busy flying? >Who has the latest modification that they want to share? >Who's getting close to flying? Dean?? > >What about Sun N' Fun We should get a list of things that people would like >information on for those of us that aren't able to attend. Other than the >new GRT screens and features what else is on everybody's mind? > >Deems Davis # 406 >Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) >http://deemsrv10.com/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Everybody doing taxes?)
Date: Apr 16, 2007
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
With all the tax prep being done, hopefully someone can help me with a simple question. Section 4.2.2.2 of the GNS430 installation manual refers to Lighting Bus Hi and Lighting Bus Lo connections on P4001. Section 5.2.6 defines the lighting config pages but does not dicsriminate between the Hi and Lo buses. Assuming the Hi bus is connected to a 14V dimmer cct, what is Lighting Bus Lo used for? cheers, Ron 187 finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Indran Chelvanayagam <dc71(at)netspace.net.au>
Subject: Re: Everybody doing taxes?)
Date: Apr 16, 2007
Sorry - I'm sending this email as a means to procrastinate about doing my Quarterly BAS (Business Activity Statement) and PAYG (Pay as you go) tax to the ATO (Australian Tax Office). Lighting Bus Lo = negative or ground for DC voltages. Lighting bus Hi can be configured to accept various voltages. Apparently the selection of incorrect voltage doesn't damage the unit - see page F-27, figure F-13, note 4 of the installation manual. I've just been through this with my 430. I have a Flight Design Systems LC40e dimmer controller, which is basically a pulse width modulated unit. Connecting the 430 to this produces a visible (and annoying) pulse in light intensity. I fiddled with various settings/ offsets on the lighting setup on the 430, but found that none were satisfactory to me - ie eliminated pulsation, but gave reasonable response to turning the dimmer knob. The automatic setting using the built-in photocell is entirely adequate for varying illumination levels. The other answer would be to run a voltage straight through a potentiometer to the 430 lighting bus, but the idea of wasting precious electrons as heat makes me cringe! Hope this helps Indran #40228 - Looks like an aircraft, but isn't one yet! On 16/04/2007, at 12:51 PM, McGANN, Ron wrote: > With all the tax prep being done, hopefully someone can help me > with a simple question. > > Section 4.2.2.2 of the GNS430 installation manual refers to > Lighting Bus Hi and Lighting Bus Lo connections on P4001. Section > 5.2.6 defines the lighting config pages but does not dicsriminate > between the Hi and Lo buses. Assuming the Hi bus is connected to a > 14V dimmer cct, what is Lighting Bus Lo used for? > > cheers, > Ron > 187 finishing > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List_- > ============================================================ _- > forums.matronics.com_- > =========================================================== > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Everybody doing taxes?)
Date: Apr 16, 2007
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
Thanks Indran. I guess I am a little surprised that the Lighting Bus Lo is another ground connection. There are already two aircraft ground pins on P4001. I didn't see anything in the lighting description to indicate the lighting bus accommodates a negative voltage. I could find no description of Lighting Bus Lo at all. But it sounds like I could just use the photocell rather than a dimmer. Mine looks like an aeroplane as well, but I know I have loooong way to go. cheers Ron BTW - thanks for reminding me about my BAS!!! -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Indran Chelvanayagam Sent: Mon 16/04/2007 19:59 Subject: Re: GNS 430 wiring (was RV10-List: Everybody doing taxes?) Sorry - I'm sending this email as a means to procrastinate about doing my Quarterly BAS (Business Activity Statement) and PAYG (Pay as you go) tax to the ATO (Australian Tax Office). Lighting Bus Lo = negative or ground for DC voltages. Lighting bus Hi can be configured to accept various voltages. Apparently the selection of incorrect voltage doesn't damage the unit - see page F-27, figure F-13, note 4 of the installation manual. I've just been through this with my 430. I have a Flight Design Systems LC40e dimmer controller, which is basically a pulse width modulated unit. Connecting the 430 to this produces a visible (and annoying) pulse in light intensity. I fiddled with various settings/ offsets on the lighting setup on the 430, but found that none were satisfactory to me - ie eliminated pulsation, but gave reasonable response to turning the dimmer knob. The automatic setting using the built-in photocell is entirely adequate for varying illumination levels. The other answer would be to run a voltage straight through a potentiometer to the 430 lighting bus, but the idea of wasting precious electrons as heat makes me cringe! Hope this helps Indran #40228 - Looks like an aircraft, but isn't one yet! On 16/04/2007, at 12:51 PM, McGANN, Ron wrote: > With all the tax prep being done, hopefully someone can help me > with a simple question. > > Section 4.2.2.2 of the GNS430 installation manual refers to > Lighting Bus Hi and Lighting Bus Lo connections on P4001. Section > 5.2.6 defines the lighting config pages but does not dicsriminate > between the Hi and Lo buses. Assuming the Hi bus is connected to a > 14V dimmer cct, what is Lighting Bus Lo used for? > > cheers, > Ron > 187 finishing > > ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Torque Specs for NPT fittings
From: "Don" <airflow2(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Apr 16, 2007
Pipe thread fitting torque 1/8" Pipe 45-65 in-lbs 1/4" Pipe 70-110 in-lbs 3/8" Pipe 95-135 in-lbs 1/2" Pipe 110-140 in-lbs Hope this helps Don Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=107253#107253 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 16, 2007
From: James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net>
Subject: Re: Torque Specs for NPT fittings
This helps a great deal! Tim - Put this on your site with the other torque specs.. Please! :) Thanks! -Jim 40384 Don wrote: > >Pipe thread fitting torque > >1/8" Pipe 45-65 in-lbs >1/4" Pipe 70-110 in-lbs >3/8" Pipe 95-135 in-lbs >1/2" Pipe 110-140 in-lbs > >Hope this helps > > >Don > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=107253#107253 > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 16, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Rosen Sun Visor Group Buy
I'd be interested in dual's but would like to find a way to mount them so they could swing to cover door windows also. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 16, 2007
From: curtis groote <cgroote1(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: avionics cooling fan
I can't find much on the search engine for avionics cooling fans. Is there a consensus of opinion whether it would be wise to install one in an IFR fitted machine? I understand that some people do and some don't. __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: C-FXCS Flies....
From: "Miles Bowen" <cessna170bdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 16, 2007
[quote="rv10builder(at)verizon.ne"]I helped a local builder install the wings and ailerons this weekend and we noticed that the aileron deflected up about 2-3 time more than it did down on both sides. We didn't check the rigging yet but I wonder if that is normal or if there should be equal deflection in both directions. Thanks! Pascal > --- Most airplanes have this feature designed in to reduce adverse yaw. Perfectly normal. Check your manual for what the actual deflections should be. -------- Miles 1955 C170B HRII Plans#211 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=107308#107308 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "SteinAir, Inc." <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: avionics cooling fan
Date: Apr 16, 2007
It actually has more to do with what you are installing in the stack then whether it's IFR or not. For example, things like Chelton screens, GNS-480 and some others have cooling fans built into them. Other things do not. If you only have one radio like an ICOM installed by itself in the stack, you're unlikely to need a cooling fan. But, if you ahve a full Garmin stack, then it's a good idea. Some of the Garmin stuff has cooling ports cast into the racks. The cooling fans are relatively cheap compared to the cost of your avionics stack (somewhere around $150-250) and it's cheap insurance for a $20-30K stack of avionics. Perhaps of equal importance is not to just have a cooling fan, but some sort of "vent" holes in the glareshield to let the hot air escape from. Do that and you'll be in pretty good shape. So, in the end my recommendation is that depending on your stack you may or may not need to install one. Cheers, Stein. >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of curtis groote >Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 11:24 AM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: avionics cooling fan > > >I can't find much on the search engine for avionics >cooling fans. Is there a consensus of opinion whether >it would be wise to install one in an IFR fitted >machine? I understand that some people do and some don't. > >__________________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <rvmail(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: Re: avionics cooling fan
Date: Apr 16, 2007
Probably wise to install in any aircraft. Just put a thermometer on your glare shield in the summer. You can assume it's considerably warmer where your radios are. Keeping them cool may prolong their life. Depending on your region, you may be able to get by with just an outside air vent circulating air to keep the radios cool. Most places, especially in the summer, there should be a dedicated fan for cooling the radio stack. I'll stay away from the debate on whether or not just to use a standard computer type box fan, or a dedicated TSO'd avionics fan. > > From: curtis groote <cgroote1(at)yahoo.com> > Date: 2007/04/16 Mon AM 11:24:10 EST > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: avionics cooling fan > > > I can't find much on the search engine for avionics > cooling fans. Is there a consensus of opinion whether > it would be wise to install one in an IFR fitted > machine? I understand that some people do and some don't. > > __________________________________________________ > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 16, 2007
From: Phil White <philwhite9(at)aol.com>
Subject: Matco wheel vs Van's tube
I replaced the Van's supplied front wheel with Matco's NW511.25. I can't find the email that indicated which tube fits this new wheel with its valve stem hole closer to the center. Does one need a different tube, or does the 5.00-5 with TR-67 valve one that Van's originally supplied work in the new wheel?? Phil White #40220 (doors & windows) in IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Dynon's AOA pitot
Date: Apr 16, 2007
Has anyone installed and used the AOA pitot tube from Dynon. If so, what are your impressions? I saw on their web site that they offer a heated version, but Aircraft Spruce seems to only list the unheated version. JOhn ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Matco wheel vs Van's tube
Date: Apr 16, 2007
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Original tube works. Bob #40105 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phil White Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 3:20 PM Subject: RV10-List: Matco wheel vs Van's tube I replaced the Van's supplied front wheel with Matco's NW511.25. I can't find the email that indicated which tube fits this new wheel with its valve stem hole closer to the center. Does one need a different tube, or does the 5.00-5 with TR-67 valve one that Van's originally supplied work in the new wheel?? Phil White #40220 (doors & windows) in IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Indran Chelvanayagam <dc71(at)netspace.net.au>
Subject: Re: avionics cooling fan
Date: Apr 17, 2007
The Dynons under Australian summer conditions definitely need cooling fans to prevent overheating! Indran On 17/04/2007, at 12:24 AM, curtis groote wrote: > > I can't find much on the search engine for avionics > cooling fans. Is there a consensus of opinion whether > it would be wise to install one in an IFR fitted > machine? I understand that some people do and some don't. > > __________________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Dynon's AOA pitot
Date: Apr 16, 2007
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
I have installed the early heated pitot and they are sending me the updated one. The install is easy with the Grets pitot mount. I used the AOA and wired it up and ran the tubing but changed my mind on it and went with Rob's AOA. I never have used the dynon aoa function. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 2:22 PM Subject: RV10-List: Dynon's AOA pitot Has anyone installed and used the AOA pitot tube from Dynon. If so, what are your impressions? I saw on their web site that they offer a heated version, but Aircraft Spruce seems to only list the unheated version. JOhn ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Sun & Fun Plans?
Date: Apr 16, 2007
RV-10 specific plans for Sun & Fun? I propose we all meet at Van's booth by the -10 at high noon Fri & Sat for a photo and lunch. ERic-- RV-10, 40014, Fiberglass Finishing :-( N104EP As a pilot, only two bad things can happen to you: a. One day you will walk out to the aircraft knowing that it is your last flight. b. One day you will walk out to the aircraft not knowing that it is your last flight. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dynon's AOA pitot
From: "Jon Reining" <jonathan.w.reining(at)wellsfargo.com>
Date: Apr 16, 2007
If you want to hook it up to a stand-alone AOA guage, is that possible? It looked like the only output was to the Dynon EFIS, is that true? Jon (and Bill) Reining 40514 - tailcone Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=107427#107427 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dynon's AOA pitot
Date: Apr 16, 2007
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
It will only work with the Dynon. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Reining Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 4:42 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Dynon's AOA pitot If you want to hook it up to a stand-alone AOA guage, is that possible? It looked like the only output was to the Dynon EFIS, is that true? Jon (and Bill) Reining 40514 - tailcone Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=107427#107427 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Dynon's AOA pitot
Date: Apr 16, 2007
It appears that it only works with Dynon. What I find interesting is that all these EFIS companies are competing with one another and one company might get ahead with a new release, but then other is soon to catch up and then offer it with a lower price. It seems that if I am going to use a Dynon as a primary or a secondary, why spend the extra$$$$ for a seperate AOA unit. John >From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Dynon's AOA pitot >Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 16:43:38 -0700 > > >It will only work with the Dynon. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Reining >Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 4:42 PM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: Re: Dynon's AOA pitot > > > >If you want to hook it up to a stand-alone AOA guage, is that possible? >It looked like the only output was to the Dynon EFIS, is that true? > >Jon (and Bill) Reining >40514 - tailcone > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=107427#107427 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 16, 2007
From: Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Minimum power required for level flight
Hi, This question is for those with flying RV-10's. Has anyone noted the minimum power setting to maintain level flight? Did you note the airspeed, altitude and % power (MP/RPM) or fuel flow (leaned or not) + loading conditions (gross, light, etc)? Has anyone constructed a power required curve with more data points? 100% 211 mph 85% 201 mph (8000 ft, 2200 lb 260 HP per Van's) 75% 65% 55% 180 mph (same) 45% 35% 25% 15% ?? Thanks! Eric (40150 spending more time on my IFR than building...)) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 16, 2007
Subject: Re: Everybody doing taxes?)
Ron, I believe Hi / Lo is avionics talk for positive / negative. Jim 40134 In a message dated 4/16/2007 12:53:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com writes: With all the tax prep being done, hopefully someone can help me with a simple question. Section 4.2.2.2 of the GNS430 installation manual refers to Lighting Bus Hi and Lighting Bus Lo connections on P4001. Section 5.2.6 defines the lighting config pages but does not dicsriminate between the Hi and Lo buses. Assuming the Hi bus is connected to a 14V dimmer cct, what is Lighting Bus Lo used for? cheers, Ron 187 finishing Jim "Scooter" McGrew _http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Dynon's AOA pitot
Date: Apr 17, 2007
From: "Doerr, Ray R" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com>
I have the unheated one with there AOA installed. It works great once you have it calibrated. I am now going to purchase the new heated one from them. Thank You Ray Doerr N519RV (40250) On my way to Sun 'N Fun Thursday morning. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 4:22 PM Subject: RV10-List: Dynon's AOA pitot Has anyone installed and used the AOA pitot tube from Dynon. If so, what are your impressions? I saw on their web site that they offer a heated version, but Aircraft Spruce seems to only list the unheated version. JOhn ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Responding to inquiries
Date: Apr 17, 2007
From: <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero>
Hey y'all! When responding to inquiries that only need to go to one person, please send email just to that person. E.g. To respond to Jesse's visor group buy, why not send an email straight to Jesse, instead of broadcasting to the whole group? That'll make it easier to read the message list traffic on my Blackberry . . . Thanks! TDT Tim Dawson-Townsend Aurora Flight Sciences tdt(at)aurora.aero 617-401-2522 "Victory smiles upon those who anticipate the changes in the character of war, not upon those who wait to adapt themselves after changes occur." Gen. Giulio Douhet, early air power theorist ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Everybody doing taxes?
Date: Apr 17, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Staying low until the topic elevates after SNF. JC ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of ddddsp1(at)juno.com Sent: Sun 4/15/2007 3:29 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Everybody doing taxes? Speaking of MODS..................where has JOHN COX been? Do we need another HOT topic to get him typing again? mmmmmmmmmm.........maybe he started building vs replying? nah.........:) Dean 40449 Sanding fiberglass...........filling pinholes. ________________________________________________________________________ Interested in getting caught up on today's news? Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines. <http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/f ront.htm?csp=24> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Reining" <wreining(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Torque Specs for NPT fittings
Date: Apr 17, 2007
James Hein - where within AC-43.13 did you find the information on calculating torque when using a crow's foot? I have downloaded the circular from the FAA site (it's a bunch of PDF files), but I couldn't locate this information.. Thanks in advance. Bill Reining (with son Jon) 40514 - tailcone (riveting the very aft, hard to get at, section!) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Byron Gillespie" <bgill1(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Torque Specs for NPT fittings
Date: Apr 17, 2007
Not James but mine is an older 98 copy and under Section Bolts 7.43 figure 7-2. There are also some online calculators such as below - but verify results prior to actual use. http://www.norbar.com/torquewrenchextensioncalculator.php Byron - N253RV assigned Then never ending finishing section. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Reining Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 2:18 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Torque Specs for NPT fittings James Hein - where within AC-43.13 did you find the information on calculating torque when using a crow's foot? I have downloaded the circular from the FAA site (it's a bunch of PDF files), but I couldn't locate this information.. Thanks in advance. Bill Reining (with son Jon) 40514 - tailcone (riveting the very aft, hard to get at, section!) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2007
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>
Subject: Paying taxes
For those of us who gave all their money to the IRS this week and had to buy the "slow build" fuselage, here's a tip that will save you a weekend of wondering what you did wrong. In section 28 they give you 14 spacers to place between the front and back spars to simulate the wing spars. Don't assume that since you will not be needing the spacers that you shouldn't take the blue plastic off the spacers and buff them. I guarantee you will not be able to get the fore and aft sections to mate properly. Much head scratching and frustration will ensue....... All this again goes back to one of the rules of RV building: If the little holes don't match up you have done something wrong. Dr Fred. 515. canoe building. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV-10 Outline Drawings
Date: Apr 17, 2007
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
www.painttheweb.com/rv10 At Sun N Fun today. WOW. Saw my first -10 in the 6 months since I purchased my QB. Nothing buy great things to say from all owners. Robin ________________________________ From: John Cleary [mailto:johncleary(at)westnet.com.au] Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 10:06 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Outline Drawings Hi Robin, I would like a copy of the .ai files if they are still available. Thank you, John Cleary ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2007 9:22 AM Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Outline Drawings Dear list, In an obvious attempt to avoid doing something productive I have traced the outline of Vans line art for the RV-10 using Adobe Illustrator. I initially did this so I could start sorting thru & sketching paint schemes. For ease of use I have converted it to a .jpg which makes the outline a bit rough but still usable. Robin Marks RV-10 pieces If anyone in interested in the .ai file (v.cs) email me offline <> <> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2007
From: James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net>
Subject: Re: Torque Specs for NPT fittings
I have the print edition, just purchased a few months ago AC43.13-1B Section 7-43, Figure 2 "Torque wrench with various adapters" In my print copy, it is page 7-8 -Jim 40384 Bill Reining wrote: > James Hein where within AC-43.13 did you find the information on > calculating torque when using a crows foot? > > I have downloaded the circular from the FAA site (its a bunch of PDF > files), but I couldnt locate this information.. > > Thanks in advance. > > Bill Reining (with son Jon) > > 40514 tailcone (riveting the very aft, hard to get at, section!) > >* > > >* > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2007
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List Sun-N-Fun
There was one sitting out....and I have a spot on my panel for one, which is currently occupied by thier turn and bank....I'm hoping to talk to them in the morning. Rick S 40185 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV10-List Sun-N-Fun
From: "bcondrey" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Date: Apr 17, 2007
I talked to them on the phone today and they've got production parts ready but the units aren't in production yet. Sounded like maybe it would be a few weeks yet. Would be interesting to hear what Jim or Andrew say at Sun-N-Fun. Bob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=107662#107662 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Rosen Visors
Date: Apr 17, 2007
I think we have found a good way to put the visors on the outside corners. I am going to try it and will send pictures. For one visor the middle may still be better, but I will let everybody know what I find out. As a general poll, would people prefer a large visor (10x12) or a small one (5X12)? Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Rosen Visors
Larger, we can always cut it down it needs be. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Jesse Saint wrote: > > I think we have found a good way to put the visors on the outside > corners. I am going to try it and will send pictures. For one visor > the middle may still be better, but I will let everybody know what I > find out. As a general poll, would people prefer a large visor > (10x12) or a small one (5X12)? > > > > Jesse Saint > > Saint Aviation, Inc. > > jesse(at)saintaviation.com > > www.saintaviation.com <http://www.saintaviation.com> > > Cell: 352-427-0285 > > Fax: 815-377-3694 > > > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GenGrumpy(at)AOL.COM
Date: Apr 17, 2007
Subject: Firewall sealant
For those building, and those flying who may find it useful. My company has lots of experience testing jet engines and other things in very hot environments. I finally asked one of my experts what he would recommend for sealing the firewall where I have installed wiring and cables through the stainless steel firewall (using grommets). Without hesitation, he recommended the following: Adhesive sealant, DE 333 Red, 10.3 oz Tube, high heat - 600 degree temp. Loctite p/n 59675, super flex high temp, mil spec A-46106. Don't use on aluminum as it will corrode aluminum over time. Fine to use on stainless steel. Might find it at the local auto parts store or good hardware store. Not to be used in place of pass through grommets or a bulkhead connector. Will hold up long after wiring might have melted. grumpy N184JM flying ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com>
Subject: Dynon questions for Sun & Fun folks
Date: Apr 17, 2007
I heard rumors of an integrated autopilot from dynon a while back. Any news from them at Sun & Fun? Their new firmware has quite a few enhancements. Check out their webpage for more information. The expansion module finally gets them a knob to adjust settings. I would like to hear any feedback from those of you who have talked with them at the show. -Ben ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Rosen Visors
Date: Apr 18, 2007
Larger and like the idea of having it on the outside... Rene' Felker N423CF 40322 801-721-6080 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 7:29 PM Subject: RV10-List: Rosen Visors I think we have found a good way to put the visors on the outside corners. I am going to try it and will send pictures. For one visor the middle may still be better, but I will let everybody know what I find out. As a general poll, would people prefer a large visor (10x12) or a small one (5X12)? Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LARSON36(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 18, 2007
Subject: Re: Rosen Visors
!0X12 is my choice. Larry Klein 40206 ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: TT 2.25" ADI
Date: Apr 18, 2007
I also had one on order from 2005 and in February 2007 decided to install a GRT Sport instead. Obviously requires more panel space but will soon show XM weather and be a full backup for the Chelton system. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: TT pitch servo torque enhancer gotcha
Date: Apr 18, 2007
Be careful when removing the arm of the standard servo. The shear pin shears very easily. The pin sheared and after drilling the servo disk with a 50 bit we were able to remove the sheared pin and request another from TT. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Paying taxes
From: "Miles Bowen" <cessna170bdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 18, 2007
drfred(at)suddenlinkmail. wrote: > All this again goes back to one of the > rules of RV building: If the little holes don't match up you have > done something wrong. > > Dr Fred. > 515. canoe building. What little holes? Can't find 'em anywhere in my -4 kit. [Laughing] Miles -------- Miles 1955 C170B HRII Plans#211 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=107742#107742 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2007
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>
Subject: Paying taxes
Miles; Ok, so we're a little bit spoiled. Dr. Fred. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2007
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: LASAR CHT with VM1000
Fellow listers, I'm back to the last few electrical connections foreward of the firewall. Here's one without any instructions (so far that I have): My LASAR unit came with a double-wired CHT transducer - the correct type for my VM1000. The SL1-96 upgrade bulletin that came with it doesn't specify the wiring in enough detail - so I'm asking those of you that have this setup running for help. Here's what I was planning to do so far: The transducer gets installed in the #3 cylinder head as it has been documented as the hottest. I'm leaving the wiring long enough that I can relocate the transducer later if necessary though. The CHT has two sets of wires, one with a brown sheath (same color - different material as the VM1000 CHT wiring), which I was planning to connect to my VM1000 wiring harness - red to red and white to white. The other set has a white with red striped sheath and I was planning to connect that set to the LASAR harness - white to white and red to purple. I sent Unison a request for tech support to their piston mailbox - haven't gotten a response yet. I didn't find anything in the archives - which may mean that I didn't look for the correct string. Anyone out there got this configuration working? How did you do it? Thanks, Ralph E. Capen RV6AQB Slider N822AR @ N06 Moving towards getting the big three bladed fan running! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2007
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: LASAR CHT with VM1000
Fellow listers, I'm back to the last few electrical connections foreward of the firewall. Here's one without any instructions (so far that I have): My LASAR unit came with a double-wired CHT transducer - the correct type for my VM1000. The SL1-96 upgrade bulletin that came with it doesn't specify the wiring in enough detail - so I'm asking those of you that have this setup running for help. Here's what I was planning to do so far: The transducer gets installed in the #3 cylinder head as it has been documented as the hottest. I'm leaving the wiring long enough that I can relocate the transducer later if necessary though. The CHT has two sets of wires, one with a brown sheath (same color - different material as the VM1000 CHT wiring), which I was planning to connect to my VM1000 wiring harness - red to red and white to white. The other set has a white with red striped sheath and I was planning to connect that set to the LASAR harness - white to white and red to purple. I sent Unison a request for tech support to their piston mailbox - haven't gotten a response yet. I didn't find anything in the archives - which may mean that I didn't look for the correct string. Anyone out there got this configuration working? How did you do it? Thanks, Ralph E. Capen RV6AQB Slider N822AR @ N06 Moving towards getting the big three bladed fan running! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Paying taxes
From: "Miles Bowen" <cessna170bdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 18, 2007
drfred(at)suddenlinkmail. wrote: > Miles; > > Ok, so we're a little bit spoiled. > > Dr. Fred. OOPS! I was ribbing Fred that I couldn't find any matched holes on my -4 kit. After I read what I wrote, I thought folks might take it the wrong way and deleted it. Didn't know anyone saw it. [Embarassed] [Embarassed] (Actually I'm a -7 and/or -10 wannabee myself.) -------- Miles 1955 C170B HRII Plans#211 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=107804#107804 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "david b. jones" <d.j.goneflyin(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Rosen Visors
Date: Apr 18, 2007
I just bought a pair of Rosen sun visors Part Number RPF-300-1 at Sun & Fun for $315.00 a pair as a show special. They are for a Piper. They mount To the Canopy Top on the outside where the bolts will be hidden when the doors are closed. You will not need a bracket. I don't know If Rosen will honor this price just by calling them up during the show. The regular price is around $350.00 for a pair. I think this is a winner Because they will also cover the door windows if you want. Good Luck, David Jones # 40331 working on wiring to panel -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 8:46 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rosen Visors Larger and like the idea of having it on the outside... Rene' Felker N423CF 40322 801-721-6080 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 7:29 PM Subject: RV10-List: Rosen Visors I think we have found a good way to put the visors on the outside corners. I am going to try it and will send pictures. For one visor the middle may still be better, but I will let everybody know what I find out. As a general poll, would people prefer a large visor (10x12) or a small one (5X12)? Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2007
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Rosen Visors
Heh hee...I bought mine for $300...they said it's what all the RV-10's are wearing...didn't say they were for a Piper though. Neat visor. I am getting the shipped since they were outta of them. Rick S. 40185 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2007
From: "bruce breckenridge" <bbreckenridge(at)gmail.com>
Subject: High Altitude Performance
With the RV-10's estimated Ceiling at 24,000ft with the 260hp (non-turbonormalized of course), I'm just wondering what altitudes many of you flyers are cruising at on long trips? And, do you notice a peak in response, handling or performance at a certain altitudes? Given a long 4 hour leg and the perfect day (ok, a nice tail wind at all altitudes), would you pick a certain flight altitude and why? Curious in Clackamas, Bruce 40018 Wings forever ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Attach Tailcone to Q/B Fuselage
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Apr 18, 2007
:? Help please anyone. Looking at 32-3 (Step 4) It shows the F-1046-R/L aleady pre-drilled. I understand from another post that there is some kind of template that is used for this operation in the std build kit. I never got it and Van's tech support is all at Sun-n-fun this week. Somebody left another note that said: The 4 bolt hole centers are 7/16 from the edge Aft bolt hole center is 3/8 from the aft end of the F1046 longeron Hole spacing is 3/4" center to center -------- OSH '08 or Bust Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=107861#107861 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Another kudo for Stein Air
Date: Apr 19, 2007
My new 530 that I purchased from Stein failed. He has been very responsive and accommodating. I will buy from him again. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Attach Tailcone to Q/B Fuselage
Date: Apr 19, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
-What we did was to mark the fore and aft edges of the overlap, and then following edge distance requirements, we measured for the first and last bolt, then we divided the remaining distance into thirds and this gave us the spacing for #2, and #3 bolt, using the same centerline established by the first and last bolt. Make sense? Feel free to call me if you need some help Dan N289DT RV10E 724-988-9230 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 2:02 AM Subject: RV10-List: Attach Tailcone to Q/B Fuselage :? Help please anyone. Looking at 32-3 (Step 4) It shows the F-1046-R/L aleady pre-drilled. I understand from another post that there is some kind of template that is used for this operation in the std build kit. I never got it and Van's tech support is all at Sun-n-fun this week. Somebody left another note that said: The 4 bolt hole centers are 7/16 from the edge Aft bolt hole center is 3/8 from the aft end of the F1046 longeron Hole spacing is 3/4" center to center -------- OSH '08 or Bust Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=107861#107861 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2007
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Rosen Visors
Here's Picture #1 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2007
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Rosen Visors
Here's Picture #2 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "david b. jones" <d.j.goneflyin(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Rosen Visors
Date: Apr 20, 2007
Hi All, I believe the part number for the pictured visor is RCS-300-6 and sells at the sun and fun show by Rosen for $390.00. This unit was designed for a Cessna 310/340. The unit I bought for $315.00 was part number RPF-300-1 and is for a Piper. You can see a picture of both also at www.rosenvisor.com Both these visors mount the same way and you can choose which one you like and how much you want to spend. David Jones #40331 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 11:30 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rosen Visors Here's Picture #2 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2007
From: Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Trimming Al on Centre Bulkhead
Hi After a bit of a build break due to work / vacations / sprained wrist, I am ready to start on my fuse kit. One of the first steps is to trim material from the web and flange of the centre bulkhead. Given that this is not a piece I want to mess up, I am interested in advice on the best way to proceed. I do have a "nibbler" and could "rough out" the areas first and then finish with a file. Are there better ways? Whatever method I plan to use, I intend to practise on scrap first. Any comments / advice welcome. Cheers Les ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Trimming Al on Centre Bulkhead
Date: Apr 20, 2007
Les, this is just from memory, but I have kit 322 and I think my holes were already the right shape and size...but then again I may be thinking of something else. Rene' Felker N423CF 40322 801-721-6080 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 8:15 AM Subject: RV10-List: Trimming Al on Centre Bulkhead Hi After a bit of a build break due to work / vacations / sprained wrist, I am ready to start on my fuse kit. One of the first steps is to trim material from the web and flange of the centre bulkhead. Given that this is not a piece I want to mess up, I am interested in advice on the best way to proceed. I do have a "nibbler" and could "rough out" the areas first and then finish with a file. Are there better ways? Whatever method I plan to use, I intend to practise on scrap first. Any comments / advice welcome. Cheers Les ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rosen Visors
From: "greghale" <ghale5224(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 20, 2007
Rick I like the way your visors look. Is the part number of your sun visor RPF-300-1?? Greg... -------- Greg Hale rv8/rv10 www.nwacaptain.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108145#108145 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2007
From: Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com>
Subject: .311 drill bit, pg 25-3 step 6
This question refers to page 25-3 step 6, where it calls for final-drilling to .311 in the gear leg socket. I am not sure what size drill bit or reamer to use here. What do i need to order? What have others used? At least on avery's site, i do not see a .311 drill bit. What i see for choices are: 1. 5/16" drill bit (0.312) - probably not precise enough for an AN5 bolt in the future. 2. 5/16" reamer (0.3125) - seems like this would be perfect for the AN5 bolt. 2. 5/16" undersize reamer which advertised as .311 on avery's site. Reamers catalog page is here: http://www.averytools.com/cart/pc-535-29-chucking-reamers--high-speed-steel.aspx Any hints here will be greatly appreciated! Also, since I'll be placing an order, i figure i should get another microstop countersink cage. Do you guys have a preference for whether the needle bearing or the bronze bushing versions are preferred? http://www.averytools.com/cart/p-456-micro-stop-countersink-cages-nylon-foot-piecewith-needle-bearings.aspx http://www.averytools.com/cart/p-455-micro-stop-countersink-cages-nylon-foot-piece-with-bronze-bushings.aspx Jae ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Packing Lists
Date: Apr 20, 2007
I'm trying to figure out what's in some of the bags I have but can't seem to locate to content list I received with the kit order. Has anyone made a list of the contents of the various bags? The people at Vans tell me they haven't because it would be to long of a list but that doesn't seem right, in any case, has anyone made such a list? Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: .311 drill bit, pg 25-3 step 6
Date: Apr 20, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Avery sells a 7.9mm ream that meets this requirement, but it is 6 inches long so you will need a 90 degree drill to use it, not the threaded one Avery sells, rather an adapter for your standard electric drill. Get the washer tool while you are at it, makes mounting washers much easier. Dan N289DT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jae Chang Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 3:55 PM Subject: RV10-List: .311 drill bit, pg 25-3 step 6 This question refers to page 25-3 step 6, where it calls for final-drilling to .311 in the gear leg socket. I am not sure what size drill bit or reamer to use here. What do i need to order? What have others used? At least on avery's site, i do not see a .311 drill bit. What i see for choices are: 1. 5/16" drill bit (0.312) - probably not precise enough for an AN5 bolt in the future. 2. 5/16" reamer (0.3125) - seems like this would be perfect for the AN5 bolt. 2. 5/16" undersize reamer which advertised as .311 on avery's site. Reamers catalog page is here: http://www.averytools.com/cart/pc-535-29-chucking-reamers--high-speed-st eel.aspx Any hints here will be greatly appreciated! Also, since I'll be placing an order, i figure i should get another microstop countersink cage. Do you guys have a preference for whether the needle bearing or the bronze bushing versions are preferred? http://www.averytools.com/cart/p-456-micro-stop-countersink-cages-nylon- foot-piecewith-needle-bearings.aspx http://www.averytools.com/cart/p-455-micro-stop-countersink-cages-nylon- foot-piece-with-bronze-bushings.aspx Jae ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Byron Gillespie" <bgill1(at)charter.net>
Subject: Packing Lists
Date: Apr 20, 2007
Tim has some of the bag contents in his page. Not sure which particular kit you are looking for but it may be here. If not there, which bag kits are you trying to ID? Someone may have them have them already - If not I may be able to photo and e-mail to you but a .pdf would be better if available. http://www.myrv10.com/tips/kits/index.html Byron #40253 N253RV assigned Finishing -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert Gardner Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 5:06 PM Subject: RV10-List: Packing Lists I'm trying to figure out what's in some of the bags I have but can't seem to locate to content list I received with the kit order. Has anyone made a list of the contents of the various bags? The people at Vans tell me they haven't because it would be to long of a list but that doesn't seem right, in any case, has anyone made such a list? Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2007
From: PJ Seipel <seipel(at)seznam.cz>
Subject: Re: Trimming Al on Centre Bulkhead
Just draw it on there using the dimensions in the plans and use whatever method appeals to you the best to cut it out. I used a dremel with a sanding drum. Debur the edges and prime it if you want and you're done. I don't see how you can mess it up unless you cut outside the line you drew. PJ RV-10 #40032 Les Kearney wrote: > > Hmmm > > Not on mine. Unless I am missing something but I dont think so . > > Cheers > > Les > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeff > Carpenter > *Sent:* April-20-07 11:47 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Trimming Al on Centre Bulkhead > > The cut outs are already made... > > On Apr 20, 2007, at 9:58 AM, Les Kearney wrote: > > > Jeff > > I am referring to step # 1 on page 25-3 of the plans. It is not holes > I am referring to but two cut outs. > > In any event, I dont plan to do anything until I am certain of a) > what is required and b) how to do it properly. > > Cheers > > Les > > #40643 > > * > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com>
Subject: Packing Lists
Date: Apr 20, 2007
If you are talking about the parts bags that come with the RV-10 empennage kit. I put mine into a drawer organizer and labeled the contents with bag # and contents. Everything bag and part is labeled, but I may have abbreviated some items to fit on the label. Here is a photo on my site if this helps: http://www.noimnotcrazy.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=241 Best Regards, Patrick ONeill -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert Gardner Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 2:06 PM Subject: RV10-List: Packing Lists --> I'm trying to figure out what's in some of the bags I have but can't seem to locate to content list I received with the kit order. Has anyone made a list of the contents of the various bags? The people at Vans tell me they haven't because it would be to long of a list but that doesn't seem right, in any case, has anyone made such a list? Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2007
From: Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Trimming Al on Centre Bulkhead
Hi I just went to the aviation dept of the local hardware store and picked up a couple of dremel attachments to do the job. That sounds like the way to go but I will practise on scrap first. I'm a bit edgy when it comes to expensive bits of the kit. Cheers Les -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of PJ Seipel Sent: April-20-07 3:42 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Trimming Al on Centre Bulkhead Just draw it on there using the dimensions in the plans and use whatever method appeals to you the best to cut it out. I used a dremel with a sanding drum. Debur the edges and prime it if you want and you're done. I don't see how you can mess it up unless you cut outside the line you drew. PJ RV-10 #40032 Les Kearney wrote: > > Hmmm > > Not on mine. Unless I am missing something but I don't think so .. > > Cheers > > Les > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeff > Carpenter > *Sent:* April-20-07 11:47 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Trimming Al on Centre Bulkhead > > The cut outs are already made... > > On Apr 20, 2007, at 9:58 AM, Les Kearney wrote: > > > Jeff > > I am referring to step # 1 on page 25-3 of the plans. It is not holes > I am referring to but two cut outs. > > In any event, I don't plan to do anything until I am certain of a) > what is required and b) how to do it properly. > > Cheers > > Les > > #40643 > > * > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jdalton77" <jdalton77(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Packing Lists
Date: Apr 20, 2007
There is a list of bag contents on Vans Airforce site. Jeff Dalton Wings ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 4:06 PM Subject: RV10-List: Packing Lists > > I'm trying to figure out what's in some of the bags I have but can't seem > to > locate to content list I received with the kit order. Has anyone made a > list > of the contents of the various bags? The people at Vans tell me they > haven't > because it would be to long of a list but that doesn't seem right, in any > case, has anyone made such a list? > Albert Gardner > Yuma, AZ > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2007
From: Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com>
Subject: Re: .311 drill bit, pg 25-3 step 6
Thanks for the feedback guys. Also, I also took a shot at calling Van's to ask them. Considering that almost everyone is at SnF, i was amazed that I got a hold of someone for tech support, late Friday. After a bit of initial confusion, I was told that in his revision 2 (dated Sep 2006), the step i refer to below, pg 25-3 step 6, is no longer there. My revision is 1 (dated 9/3/04). However, in his revision, final drilling the gear mount hole for AN5 is in Section 46, a ways away. In there, there was a note for avery part # 15358, which is the 5/16 undersized reamer that i mention below. Finally, I asked how i could get the new revisions. i was surprised by his response. basically, there is no way to get new revisions. He recommended using the plans i got with the parts; otherwise, there would be too much confusion if the diagrams and plans did not exactly correlate with the parts given. I guess i could order the plans as a separate item and hope it included all the latest revisions. however, it was clear it was not recommended. Wow, those washer wreches are not cheap! Jae Jae Chang wrote: > > This question refers to page 25-3 step 6, where it calls for > final-drilling to .311 in the gear leg socket. I am not sure what size > drill bit or reamer to use here. What do i need to order? What have > others used? At least on avery's site, i do not see a .311 drill bit. > What i see for choices are: > > 1. 5/16" drill bit (0.312) - probably not precise enough for an AN5 > bolt in the future. > 2. 5/16" reamer (0.3125) - seems like this would be perfect for the > AN5 bolt. > 2. 5/16" undersize reamer which advertised as .311 on avery's site. > > Reamers catalog page is here: > http://www.averytools.com/cart/pc-535-29-chucking-reamers--high-speed-steel.aspx > > > Any hints here will be greatly appreciated! > > Also, since I'll be placing an order, i figure i should get another > microstop countersink cage. Do you guys have a preference for whether > the needle bearing or the bronze bushing versions are preferred? > > http://www.averytools.com/cart/p-456-micro-stop-countersink-cages-nylon-foot-piecewith-needle-bearings.aspx > > http://www.averytools.com/cart/p-455-micro-stop-countersink-cages-nylon-foot-piece-with-bronze-bushings.aspx > > > Jae > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 21, 2007
From: "Ton" <tonpapa730(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: .311 drill bit, pg 25-3 step 6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Washer Wrench
Date: Apr 20, 2007
>Wow, those washer wrenches are not cheap! Try a popsicle stick Thanks for the packing list info all. Albert Gardner ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: AF3500 whoopiee!
From: "LarryRosen" <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Date: Apr 20, 2007
>From Sun-N-Fun You should see the moving map functionality and the WSI weather integration. It is turning into a very nice platform. The screens on the AFS units are still better that the new and improve GRT units. Larry Enjoying the FL weather -------- Larry Rosen #40356 N205EN (reserved) <http> Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108223#108223 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Washer Wrench
Date: Apr 20, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
You know, that solution is too easy and saves way too much money to work!!! Grin Dan N289DT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert Gardner Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 8:59 PM Subject: RV10-List: Washer Wrench >Wow, those washer wrenches are not cheap! Try a popsicle stick Thanks for the packing list info all. Albert Gardner ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: LoPresti Boom Beams for RV-10
From: "LarryRosen" <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Date: Apr 20, 2007
LoPresti has a HID wing tip modification for the RV-10. Five minutes into Sun-N-Fun and I already made my first purchase. The front corner of the wing tip gets cut out and a replacement fiberglass cut out and lense get put into place. This makes room for the HID bulb. The power of the RV-10 lamp is more powerful that there STCd versions. And no cutting the wing leading edge. Sun-N-Fun special, $760 with shipping for the pair. Now I have wing tips to modify. Any one want some never used, but previously installed Vans style halogen lights? Larry Rosen #356 -------- Larry Rosen #40356 N205EN (reserved) <http> Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108227#108227 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Cram" <johncram(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: Packing Lists
Date: Apr 20, 2007
Patrick, what is your builder #. JOHN cRAM 40569 emp complete... QB fus and wings to ship next week >From: "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: RV10-List: Packing Lists >Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 15:00:57 -0700 > > >If you are talking about the parts bags that come with the RV-10 empennage >kit. I put mine into a drawer organizer and labeled the contents with bag ># >and contents. Everything bag and part is labeled, but I may have >abbreviated some items to fit on the label. > >Here is a photo on my site if this helps: > >http://www.noimnotcrazy.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=241 > >Best Regards, >Patrick ONeill > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert Gardner >Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 2:06 PM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: Packing Lists > > >--> > >I'm trying to figure out what's in some of the bags I have but can't seem >to >locate to content list I received with the kit order. Has anyone made a >list >of the contents of the various bags? The people at Vans tell me they >haven't >because it would be to long of a list but that doesn't seem right, in any >case, has anyone made such a list? Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com>
Subject: Packing Lists
Date: Apr 20, 2007
Hi John, 40715. My emp kit just arrived last Friday. Best Regards, Patrick -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cram Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 9:11 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Packing Lists Patrick, what is your builder #. JOHN cRAM 40569 emp complete... QB fus and wings to ship next week >From: "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: RV10-List: Packing Lists >Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 15:00:57 -0700 > > >If you are talking about the parts bags that come with the RV-10 >empennage kit. I put mine into a drawer organizer and labeled the >contents with bag # and contents. Everything bag and part is labeled, >but I may have abbreviated some items to fit on the label. > >Here is a photo on my site if this helps: > >http://www.noimnotcrazy.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=241 > >Best Regards, >Patrick ONeill > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert >Gardner >Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 2:06 PM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: Packing Lists > > >--> > >I'm trying to figure out what's in some of the bags I have but can't >seem >to >locate to content list I received with the kit order. Has anyone made a >list >of the contents of the various bags? The people at Vans tell me they >haven't >because it would be to long of a list but that doesn't seem right, in any >case, has anyone made such a list? Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Reining" <wreining(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Lube for Bolts and Screws
Date: Apr 20, 2007
We are just at the end of the tailcone assembly, where some nuts and bolts are installed, as well as screws into nutplates. Should we use any kind of anti-seize or lube on these to protect the threads? What about tightening torque? They may be mundane, but we'd appreciate some advice on how it's done correctly. Bill and Jon Reining 40514 - finishing tail cone ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 21, 2007
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>
Subject: Lube for Bolts and Screws
Bill; There is a torque table on page 5/13 of your RV 10 builder's manual. I wouldn't use any lube on the threads. It is also recommended to add the "drag" of the nyloc nut to the specified torque. Also, remember when putting together the vertical and horizontal stabilizer, they will have to come on and off a couple of times. I went to the local aircraft supply house ( Home depot) and picked up a couple of boxes of nuts to use for those locations. That way, I'll save my nyloc nuts to final and hopefully painted assembly. You should also consider getting a copy of the " standard aircraft handbook" by Larry Reithmaier. Has a lot of tables and proper construction information. Fred Williams 40515 workin on fuselage. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lube for Bolts and Screws
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Apr 21, 2007
I got a torque wrench from Cleveland tools for about $145 with a 1/4" drive on it. Do the AN3 bolts to about 25 inches. You can get a big torque wrench from harbor freight for $15 but the scale will not be accurate in the lower range. I looked many places for a 1/4" drive, and Cleveland seems to be the best deal. Also order a tube or two of torque seal to mark the bolts that you have torqued. It is not in Cleveland's book but the do have it - ask. Remember that you are not supposed to use the nylocks 2x. So as suggested get some cheapo nuts to pre-fit the Emp. Another way that I used is to use a bunch of washers stacked up so that the bolt threads do not penetrate the nylock part of the Van's suppled bolts. -------- OSH '08 or Bust Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108291#108291 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 21, 2007
From: phil barnette <barnettephillip(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Packing Lists
the bag hardware usually has a list (separate from the "pick list" that inventories the sheet, tube, etc). The bas hardware list has been included in the larger plastic bag that holds all of the other paper bags (at least the case with the empennage and wing kit brown bags) phil kslc Albert Gardner wrote: I'm trying to figure out what's in some of the bags I have but can't seem to locate to content list I received with the kit order. Has anyone made a list of the contents of the various bags? The people at Vans tell me they haven't because it would be to long of a list but that doesn't seem right, in any case, has anyone made such a list? Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Re: Lube for Bolts and Screws
Date: Apr 21, 2007
I'm a little confused. Where is it written that Nylocks must not be reused? Clearly at _some_ point they need to be replaced, but I know of no source that says removing and replacing once or twice is not acceptable. (flame shields up - fire away, but this is a genuine request for documentable enlightenment) John Ackerman 40458 QB fuselage On Apr 21, 2007, at 7:49 AM, AirMike wrote: > > I got a torque wrench from Cleveland tools for about $145 with a > 1/4" drive on it. Do the AN3 bolts to about 25 inches. You can get > a big torque wrench from harbor freight for $15 but the scale will > not be accurate in the lower range. I looked many places for a 1/4" > drive, and Cleveland seems to be the best deal. Also order a tube > or two of torque seal to mark the bolts that you have torqued. It > is not in Cleveland's book but > the do have it - ask. Remember that you are not supposed to use the > nylocks 2x. So as suggested get some cheapo nuts to pre-fit the Emp. > Another way that I used is to use a bunch of washers stacked up so > that the bolt threads do not penetrate the nylock part of the Van's > suppled bolts. > > -------- > OSH '08 or Bust > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108291#108291 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Gotcha: SV-1 vents
Date: Apr 21, 2007
Here's a pretty minor "Gotcha" in my plans. Page 35-10 Step 3 has us install the two VENT SV-1 units to the forward side skin. These vents are not included in the QB fuselage kit, and when called,Van's had me buy them separately. Trouble is, what I bought didn't have the requisite square flange, and I didn't know that. Just got my finishing kit yesterday,and guess what? There are the vent units complete with square flanges. It's time to get out the heat gun and remove the previously installed units,I guess. If others have run across this glitch, maybe Tim would like to add it to the "gotchas" list. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Re: Lube for Bolts and Screws
Date: Apr 21, 2007
You can also use your castle nuts for trial fits instead of the elastic locking nuts. Or go to Home Depot and get a few NF nuts and use them. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ -----Original Message----- Remember that you are not supposed to use the nylocks 2x. So as suggested get some cheapo nuts to pre-fit the Emp. Another way that I used is to use a bunch of washers stacked up so that the bolt threads do not penetrate the nylock part of the Van's suppled bolts. -------- OSH '08 or Bust ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Re: Lube for Bolts and Screws
Date: Apr 21, 2007
In addition, I'd like to know just what additional torque force are you supposed to add to compensate for the locknuts! What table or paragraph in Van's book has this information? John Jessen #40328 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Ackerman Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 12:59 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Lube for Bolts and Screws I'm a little confused. Where is it written that Nylocks must not be reused? Clearly at _some_ point they need to be replaced, but I know of no source that says removing and replacing once or twice is not acceptable. (flame shields up - fire away, but this is a genuine request for documentable enlightenment) John Ackerman 40458 QB fuselage On Apr 21, 2007, at 7:49 AM, AirMike wrote: > > I got a torque wrench from Cleveland tools for about $145 with a 1/4" > drive on it. Do the AN3 bolts to about 25 inches. You can get a big > torque wrench from harbor freight for $15 but the scale will not be > accurate in the lower range. I looked many places for a 1/4" > drive, and Cleveland seems to be the best deal. Also order a tube or > two of torque seal to mark the bolts that you have torqued. It is not > in Cleveland's book but the do have it - ask. Remember that you are > not supposed to use the nylocks 2x. So as suggested get some cheapo > nuts to pre-fit the Emp. > Another way that I used is to use a bunch of washers stacked up so > that the bolt threads do not penetrate the nylock part of the Van's > suppled bolts. > > -------- > OSH '08 or Bust > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108291#108291 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 21, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Gotcha: SV-1 vents
John, have you finalized the design of your instrument panel yet? I you decided to use something other than the standard Van's panel )The reason I'm asking is that there are several options (many options give more depth/room) for terminating the vents at the instrument panel, and many of them would NOT require the square flange on the SV-1. It may be that depending on what panel you decided on you may be OK with what you have installed. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ John Ackerman wrote: > > Here's a pretty minor "Gotcha" in my plans. > > Page 35-10 Step 3 has us install the two VENT SV-1 units to the > forward side skin. These vents are not included in the QB fuselage > kit, and when called,Van's had me buy them separately. Trouble is, > what I bought didn't have the requisite square flange, and I didn't > know that. > > Just got my finishing kit yesterday,and guess what? There are the vent > units complete with square flanges. It's time to get out the heat gun > and remove the previously installed units,I guess. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 21, 2007
From: James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net>
Subject: Re: Lube for Bolts and Screws
>I'd like to know just what additional torque force are you supposed to add to compensate for the locknuts! What table or paragraph in Van's book has this information? *It is in AC 43.13 Par. 7-40, section D* >Where is it written that Nylocks must not be reused? *It isn't. In AC 43.13 Par. 7-64, section F "Do not use nylon locknut if it cannot meet the minimum prevaling torque values; See table 7-2" * -Jim 40384 John Jessen wrote: > >In addition, I'd like to know just what additional torque force are you >supposed to add to compensate for the locknuts! What table or paragraph in >Van's book has this information? > >John Jessen > #40328 > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Ackerman >Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 12:59 PM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Lube for Bolts and Screws > > >I'm a little confused. >Where is it written that Nylocks must not be reused? >Clearly at _some_ point they need to be replaced, but I know of no source >that says removing and replacing once or twice is not acceptable. >(flame shields up - fire away, but this is a genuine request for >documentable enlightenment) > >John Ackerman >40458 QB fuselage > > >On Apr 21, 2007, at 7:49 AM, AirMike wrote: > > > >> >>I got a torque wrench from Cleveland tools for about $145 with a 1/4" >>drive on it. Do the AN3 bolts to about 25 inches. You can get a big >>torque wrench from harbor freight for $15 but the scale will not be >>accurate in the lower range. I looked many places for a 1/4" >>drive, and Cleveland seems to be the best deal. Also order a tube or >>two of torque seal to mark the bolts that you have torqued. It is not >>in Cleveland's book but the do have it - ask. Remember that you are >>not supposed to use the nylocks 2x. So as suggested get some cheapo >>nuts to pre-fit the Emp. >>Another way that I used is to use a bunch of washers stacked up so >>that the bolt threads do not penetrate the nylock part of the Van's >>suppled bolts. >> >>-------- >>OSH '08 or Bust >> >> >> >> >>Read this topic online here: >> >>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108291#108291 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Builder Numbers
From: "LarryRosen" <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Date: Apr 21, 2007
Albert, So what does your headliner treatment look like? Maybe Deems can post some photos on his site. Larry Rosen -------- Larry Rosen #40356 N205EN (reserved) <http> Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108353#108353 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 21, 2007
From: John Hurst <johnh38(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: LoPresti Boom Beams for RV-10
Larry, What is the part number for the LoPriesti HID for the RV-10. I don't see a listing on their website. http://www.speedmods.com/Boom_Beam/boom_beam_systems.htm http://www.speedmods.com/Boom_Beam/boom_beam_AML.htm john 40102 ----- Original Message ---- From: LarryRosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 10:07:58 PM Subject: RV10-List: LoPresti Boom Beams for RV-10 LoPresti has a HID wing tip modification for the RV-10. Five minutes into Sun-N-Fun and I already made my first purchase. The front corner of the wing tip gets cut out and a replacement fiberglass cut out and lense get put into place. This makes room for the HID bulb. The power of the RV-10 lamp is more powerful that there STCd versions. And no cutting the wing leading edge. Sun-N-Fun special, $760 with shipping for the pair. Now I have wing tips to modify. Any one want some never used, but previously installed Vans style halogen lights? Larry Rosen #356 -------- Larry Rosen #40356 N205EN (reserved) <http> Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108227#108227 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: New--CNC aluminum cabin top.
Date: Apr 21, 2007
It took me twenty minutes to install this new option. It is surprisingly light. The fit was unbelievable, it dropped right in. This thing even has optional windows on the top with sweet hinges and levered locks which pull the plexi glass sunroofs down tight onto rubber seals. The best part is the outside surface finish. There is no un-wetted fiberglass which stands out, showing thousands and thousands of tiny bubbles, little bubbles, all over the entire top. No blue painters tape embedded in the first layers of glass. Oh, and the door hinge recesses, they are perfectly sized and there are no saw and grinder marks and long voids where the resin and cotton flox mixture didn't get into the tight corners of the recesses If anyone is interested let me know and I'll forward the link. I think this option by the looks of my fiberglass canopy top should save about fifty to sixty hours of work both in fitting and then prepping the inside and then the outside for paint. I've seen fiberglass sewage holding tanks that were made better then my canopy top. ITS SHAMEFUL! OPPS!!!_______________ there is no such top and no such link. Thirteen hours in and I'm afraid the fitting will not be the hard part, it will be filling in all the voids, on the skin and in the corners and flanges. Oh does my back**&*&*%$#$@#$%ing hurt. They really could do a much better job with these tops. Sorry for the sarcasm. JOhn G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Gotcha: SV-1 vents
Date: Apr 21, 2007
What the heck is a square flanged SV-1 vent. I am using the srandard Van's panel and my installed vents seem to eminate just below the panel. About two inches of tubing and an aluminum mount to the bottom cross member and it should be fine. Am I missing something. My vents were not in the QB either so I orderred them. WHere is the square flange.?? John >From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Gotcha: SV-1 vents >Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:34:25 -0700 > > >John, have you finalized the design of your instrument panel yet? I you >decided to use something other than the standard Van's panel )The reason >I'm asking is that there are several options (many options give more >depth/room) for terminating the vents at the instrument panel, and many of >them would NOT require the square flange on the SV-1. It may be that >depending on what panel you decided on you may be OK with what you have >installed. > >Deems Davis # 406 >Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) >http://deemsrv10.com/ > >John Ackerman wrote: >> >>Here's a pretty minor "Gotcha" in my plans. >> >>Page 35-10 Step 3 has us install the two VENT SV-1 units to the forward >>side skin. These vents are not included in the QB fuselage kit, and when >>called,Van's had me buy them separately. Trouble is, what I bought didn't >>have the requisite square flange, and I didn't know that. >> >>Just got my finishing kit yesterday,and guess what? There are the vent >>units complete with square flanges. It's time to get out the heat gun and >>remove the previously installed units,I guess. >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 21, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Gotcha: SV-1 vents
John, here's a link that will help. http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1177205964-300-624&browse=heatvent&product=ventilation-components The Square part is actually the SV-2. In my finish kit they came glued together SV- and SV-2 and I had to cut the SV-2 portion off. PS saw your frustration on the cabin cover, and I think you'll be surprised just how much additional time you will spend on the fiberglass parts. I installed my cabin cover last summer, and I'm STILL dealing with fiberglass dust!!!!!! Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - cough - choke - snort - itch ---- http://deemsrv10.com/ > orderred them. WHere is the square flange.?? > > John > > >> From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> >> Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Gotcha: SV-1 vents >> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:34:25 -0700 >> >> >> John, have you finalized the design of your instrument panel yet? I >> you decided to use something other than the standard Van's panel )The >> reason I'm asking is that there are several options (many options >> give more depth/room) for terminating the vents at the instrument >> panel, and many of them would NOT require the square flange on the >> SV-1. It may be that depending on what panel you decided on you may >> be OK with what you have installed. >> >> Deems Davis # 406 >> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) >> http://deemsrv10.com/ >> >> John Ackerman wrote: >>> >>> Here's a pretty minor "Gotcha" in my plans. >>> >>> Page 35-10 Step 3 has us install the two VENT SV-1 units to the >>> forward side skin. These vents are not included in the QB fuselage >>> kit, and when called,Van's had me buy them separately. Trouble is, >>> what I bought didn't have the requisite square flange, and I didn't >>> know that. >>> >>> Just got my finishing kit yesterday,and guess what? There are the >>> vent units complete with square flanges. It's time to get out the >>> heat gun and remove the previously installed units,I guess. >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: .311 drill bit, pg 25-3 step 6
From: "AndrewTR30" <AndrewTR30(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 21, 2007
They were posting revisions here: http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/notices.htm They don't show the revision you're referring to though. -------- Andrew Rayhill RV-10 40078 Phoenix Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108406#108406 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Leffler" <rvmail(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: Countersunk wrong hole, need advice
Date: Apr 22, 2007
While starting the horizontal stabilizer for my RV-10 on page 8-2, my attention was diverted and I ended up countersinking an incorrect hole on the rear spar. Step 2 is the where I made the mistake and countersunk the middle hole (vertically) two holes to the left of the two holes that were supposed to be countersunk. On Page 11-4, Figure 4, it appears to be the hole that is initially cleco'd on the rear spar to F-101C. It appears that the top and bottom holes are attached with an AN3 bolt. I'm having difficulty finding the purpose of this middle hole, other than aligning the spar to match drill the top and bottom holes. I can't seem to find the step where it indicates that the cleco comes out and another fastener is used. So the questions I am attempting to figure out are: 1. What specifically is this hole used for other than just to initially align the spar for match drilling the top and bottom holes? 2. Will having a countersink be an issue with the intended purpose of this hole? 3. If it is an issue, can I install a doubler or some other appropriate fix? 4. Or am I SOL and need to order another spar? Thanks, Bob #40684 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Eating Tools ;-)
From: "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net>
Date: Apr 22, 2007
Hello guys, In case you dont want to let go your tools during lunch. Thats my alternative Best Regards from sunny Zurich Michael -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108445#108445 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/foodtools_170.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: .311 drill bit, pg 25-3 step 6
Date: Apr 22, 2007
Part Number 15358 is an Avery Chucking Reamer in .3115 (undersize 5/16) $18.00. We need to support Avery more than McMaster so I try to buy from them. Their new catalog has a lot of hard to find stuff. Bill S 7a Ark -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jae Chang Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 2:55 PM Subject: RV10-List: .311 drill bit, pg 25-3 step 6 This question refers to page 25-3 step 6, where it calls for final-drilling to .311 in the gear leg socket. I am not sure what size drill bit or reamer to use here. What do i need to order? What have others used? At least on Avery's site, i do not see a .311 drill bit. What i see for choices are: 1. 5/16" drill bit (0.312) - probably not precise enough for an AN5 bolt in the future. 2. 5/16" reamer (0.3125) - seems like this would be perfect for the AN5 bolt. 2. 5/16" undersize reamer which advertised as .311 on avery's site. Reamers catalog page is here: http://www.averytools.com/cart/pc-535-29-chucking-reamers--high-speed-steel. aspx Any hints here will be greatly appreciated! Also, since I'll be placing an order, i figure i should get another microstop countersink cage. Do you guys have a preference for whether the needle bearing or the bronze bushing versions are preferred? http://www.averytools.com/cart/p-456-micro-stop-countersink-cages-nylon-foot -piecewith-needle-bearings.aspx http://www.averytools.com/cart/p-455-micro-stop-countersink-cages-nylon-foot -piece-with-bronze-bushings.aspx Jae ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: AF3500 whoopiee!
From: "N777TY" <microsmurfer(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 22, 2007
The map will be a $750 option for software, though. (No GPS included) -------- RV-7A N777TY (res) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108537#108537 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Apr 23, 2007
Subject: Re: AF3500 whoopiee!
Kinda curious that no one has mentioned or discussed the WEIGHT of these units or the extra SPACE they take out of the panel vs comparable units . I know the RV10 can haul a LOT of weight compared to other 4 place pl anes...................but why add weight (esp. unnecessary wt.) when it adds nothing or very little to the utility of the plane. Dean 40449
Kinda curious that no one has mentioned or discussed the WEIGHT of these units or the extra SPACE they take out of the panel vs co mparable units. I know the RV10 can haul a LOT of weight comp ared to other 4 place planes...................but why add weight (esp. unnecessary wt.) when it adds nothing or very little to the utility of the plane.

Dean 40449

________________________________________________________________________________
From: Sean Stephens <sean(at)stephensville.com>
Subject: Re: AF3500 whoopiee!
Date: Apr 22, 2007
Huh? Can you elaborate on your findings regarding this unit against the "comparable units" including price? -Sean #40303 On Apr 23, 2007, at 2:16 AM, ddddsp1(at)juno.com wrote: > Kinda curious that no one has mentioned or discussed the WEIGHT of > these units or the extra SPACE they take out of the panel vs > comparable units. I know the RV10 can haul a LOT of weight > compared to other 4 place planes...................but why add > weight (esp. unnecessary wt.) when it adds nothing or very little > to the utility of the plane. > > Dean 40449 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Cram" <johncram(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: AF3500 whoopiee!
Date: Apr 22, 2007
I would like him to explain the last part of his post ...................but why add >>weight (esp. unnecessary wt.) when it adds nothing or very little to the >>utility of the plane. N569JC (res) 40569 >From: Sean Stephens <sean(at)stephensville.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: AF3500 whoopiee! >Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 21:30:41 -0500 > >Huh? > >Can you elaborate on your findings regarding this unit against the >"comparable units" including price? > >-Sean #40303 > >On Apr 23, 2007, at 2:16 AM, ddddsp1(at)juno.com wrote: > >>Kinda curious that no one has mentioned or discussed the WEIGHT of these >>units or the extra SPACE they take out of the panel vs comparable units. >>I know the RV10 can haul a LOT of weight compared to other 4 place >>planes...................but why add weight (esp. unnecessary wt.) when >>it adds nothing or very little to the utility of the plane. >> >>Dean 40449 >> >> >> >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: AF3500 whoopiee!
Date: Apr 22, 2007
From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
just wondering about this post a bit. my thoughts? well, i have the chelton 2 screen system, freeflight gps (possibly will be replaced) and the rest standard radios & transponder. so when i thought about the engine monitor, i looked around, and decided on the AF3500. it does a few things for me, besides being an engine monitor, that i feel add quite a bit to the plane. first, it's got a full set of instruments. airspeed, alt, AI, etc. it's also got a display of the flap and trim settings. it's also got checklists. it's also got, a GRAPHIC WEIGHT AND BALANCE screen, where you just dial up the weights in the different stations and it calculates CG. simple. no calculator or book, and i can actually do weight and balance before a flight. easily. oh, and it's got an AOA display if you want. oh, and an internal battery, in case something goes fizzle with the electrical system. oh yea, and you can hook up a GPS or nav radio and navigate using it. oh, and fly an ILS if you want. hmmmm. not to be difficult, but this particular unit, at least in my estimation, is pretty small and light for all the functionality it's giving you. then you add moving map stuff. sweet. for my money and panel space, that's one highly functional piece of gear. it kind of feels like cheating for me, because when i do an IPC in my 10, that's my backup instrumentation. can you say situational awareness? i think it's pretty neat, but i'm biased. i think you'd be hard pressed to find a comparable unit with the same form factor in this case. well, maybe you could get the smaller one :) cj #40410 fuse/finishing www.perfectlygoodairplane.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of ddddsp1(at)juno.com Sent: Sun 4/22/2007 7:16 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: AF3500 whoopiee! Kinda curious that no one has mentioned or discussed the WEIGHT of these units or the extra SPACE they take out of the panel vs comparable units. I know the RV10 can haul a LOT of weight compared to other 4 place planes...................but why add weight (esp. unnecessary wt.) when it adds nothing or very little to the utility of the plane. Dean 40449 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Re: Builder Numbers
Date: Apr 22, 2007
I'll try to get some photos but I used Accuracy's overhead console. I covered the aft cabin overhead to just behind the door openings. Forward of that I just covered the console itself. Left the sides and front window ring painted. Abby at Flightline did the interior and it is just great. Man, I've got to fly this thing. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ -----Original Message----- Albert, So what does your headliner treatment look like? Maybe Deems can post some photos on his site. Larry Rosen ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength?
From: "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net>
Date: Apr 23, 2007
Hope that hasn't been discussed before. Does a metallic paint influence the signal strength reception for the VOR in the wing tips (Bob Archer antenna) in a negative way? Thanks Michael -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108576#108576 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Sargeant" <k5wiv(at)amsat.org>
Subject: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength?
Date: Apr 23, 2007
YES! But I won't attempt to guess how much. It will depend on the exact composition of the paint, the thickness of the application, how well bonded to the airplane structure, etc. It could range from a barely detectable effect to no signal received. Jack Sargeant 1127 Patricia St. Wichita, KS 67208-2642 316/683-5268 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael Wellenzohn Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 2:45 AM Subject: RV10-List: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength? Hope that hasn't been discussed before. Does a metallic paint influence the signal strength reception for the VOR in the wing tips (Bob Archer antenna) in a negative way? Thanks Michael -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108576#108576 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 23, 2007
Subject: Re: Packing Lists
In a message dated 4/22/2007 10:39:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, fehdxl(at)gmail.com writes: My guess it it should be 14-15 kits per month Jim they could not live on 14-15 kits per month... P ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)cox.net>
Subject: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength?
Date: Apr 23, 2007
Not sure how much metal is in metallic paint. When I painted my plane, the "metallic" additive to the paint mix was not metal. Try it and see. I would guess you would not be able to measure the difference in performance. I have a homemade wingtip comm. antenna and it works fine. It is not as good as the belly bent whip comm antenna, but good enough for a backup comm and fine for as a primary VOR antenna. Carl Froehlich RV-8A (325 hrs) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael Wellenzohn Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 3:45 AM Subject: RV10-List: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength? Hope that hasn't been discussed before. Does a metallic paint influence the signal strength reception for the VOR in the wing tips (Bob Archer antenna) in a negative way? Thanks Michael -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108576#108576 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 23, 2007
Subject: Re: Packing Lists
Sorry I thought Jim was talking about over all kits...I'm sure they are shipping more RV 8 and 9's that 10's or at least there were last year...Van's is shipping more kits per year than any of the Certified aircraft producers are delivering...so if one assumes that 80% of the kits are built then eventually they, Van's will be one of the leading built planes in the market place. P ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: RE: S-N-F RV 10 Builder
Date: Apr 23, 2007
I didn't pay much attention to headset deals at Sun-N-Fun, but I will offer my opinion on what is available. I personally am quite taken with the EM-1 headset by Headsets, Inc. I have purchased a total of 11 of these headsets and the sound quality and comfort of the headsets is very good for the cost (I think they are under $400 each). Customer service is quite good. They were not at Sun-N-Fun, but their website is http://www.headsetsinc.com/. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 _____ From: MB86967(at)aol.com [mailto:MB86967(at)aol.com] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:15 PM Subject: S-N-F RV 10 Builder Hi Jesse Thanks for all your input to the RV10 list. I am looking for a good buy on a noise canceling headset. Please reply to the RV 10 List if you see any specials at S-N-F in the $500.00 +/- range. Would also appreciate your input on headsets. Thanks Mike Bantz RV 40196 _____ See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: High Altitude Performance
Date: Apr 23, 2007
Bruce, N256H has flown as high as 22,000ft, but it didn't like it that high (indicated airspeed was almost at the stall speed). It likes flying as high as 18,000ft very much, and it is easier not going over that anyway for Oxygen and IFR reasons. If I were to pick a flight altitude for a long flight, with no wind or a constant tailwind, I would go 17,000-18,000 because you can get really nice fuel economy (7.5gph with TAS around 155Kts - over 20Nmpg). With a constant headwind, I would probably go a little lower and a little faster (maybe 12,000-14,000ft) so I would not be pushing the wind for as long. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bruce breckenridge Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 12:27 AM Subject: RV10-List: High Altitude Performance With the RV-10's estimated Ceiling at 24,000ft with the 260hp (non-turbonormalized of course), I'm just wondering what altitudes many of you flyers are cruising at on long trips? And, do you notice a peak in response, handling or performance at a certain altitudes? Given a long 4 hour leg and the perfect day (ok, a nice tail wind at all altitudes), would you pick a certain flight altitude and why? Curious in Clackamas, Bruce 40018 Wings forever ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: High Altitude Performance
Date: Apr 23, 2007
From: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com>
I flew from Kansas City to Sun N Fun at 11,500. MAP was 19.5" and ran 2200 RPM burning 9 GPH, OAT was 38 F. True airspeed was 140 Kts and with the 50 Kts tail wind, I was getting 190 kts ground speed. I still don't have my main wheel fairings and gear legs. This was a nice super econ cruise. Made the 920 nm trip in 5.5 hours, one stop. Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 N519RV (242 on the Hobbs) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bruce breckenridge Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 11:27 PM Subject: RV10-List: High Altitude Performance With the RV-10's estimated Ceiling at 24,000ft with the 260hp (non-turbonormalized of course), I'm just wondering what altitudes many of you flyers are cruising at on long trips? And, do you notice a peak in response, handling or performance at a certain altitudes? Given a long 4 hour leg and the perfect day (ok, a nice tail wind at all altitudes), would you pick a certain flight altitude and why? Curious in Clackamas, Bruce 40018 Wings forever ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Rosen Visors
Date: Apr 23, 2007
I am waiting on a quote from Rosen on a group buy for their visors. My opinion is that the Cirrus lense (8x15.5") is the right lense and a combination of the Cessna 310 and the Piper base is the way to go. They are going to quote me on the combination soon, hopefully. I told them that I estimated a group buy of 50 sets, which hopefully won't be too far off. The only thing I'm not crazy about is the gap (as seen in the attached picture) between the base and the curved portion of the door channel. For those who are not finished yet, this would be an easy fix, just filling that with flox as was mentioned in another post, but for those with a finished cabin top, this will be more difficult, and many will probably end up just putting it in an leaving the gap, which would not make a big structural difference MAYBE, but would certainly be weaker and more likely to break with continued use. I am still thinking about having the CNC shop make the "perfect base" is such is possible. I will let you know what I find out. Also, for those who purchased a visor at SNF, please post pictures and dimensions of your mount. Thanks. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 23, 2007
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: AF3500 whoopiee!
I think the AFS system is great, that's why I went with them. Rob has always been upgrading his products so the weather and moving map stuff comes as no surprise. Heres my panel with the two 3500 screens, 480/MX-20/SL-30/TT RV-10 AP/PMA-8000 plus the IFR backups assembled by Accuracy Avionics...If your considering an avionics company check them out, I highly recommend them. Heres the link to a photo of my panel in their booth last week. http://www.vansairforce.net/delete_eventually/DSCF0034.jpg Rick S. 40185 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength?
Date: Apr 23, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
YES. John Cox -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Wellenzohn Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 12:45 AM Subject: RV10-List: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength? Hope that hasn't been discussed before. Does a metallic paint influence the signal strength reception for the VOR in the wing tips (Bob Archer antenna) in a negative way? Thanks Michael -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108576#108576 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: EFIS Bewilderment
Date: Apr 23, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
OK, group. I'm going to expose my ignorance about avionics. I went down to SNF with my primary goal being learning about the various options for EFIS. What I found was a bewildering array of choices at prices ranging from $3,000 to $50,000. Without knowing much about the units and their capabilities, I went to the following vendors, Dynon, Chelton, Avidyne, Grand Rapids Technology (GRT), AFS, and Blue Mountain. I asked each of them to show me how an ILS approach would look on their system. Since I'm instrument rated and learned to fly ILS approaches using convential VOR/GS equipement, I wanted to see how much better the new technology would work. What I found was that no one system has everything I want. Except for GRT, every system I looked at either didn't have a suitable demo configured to show an ILS approach (what are they thinking?), or they could do it, but the Localizer just showed as a small pip on the bottom of the screen, with the Glideslope an equally small pip on the side of the screen. When shooting an ILS, all I really want to see in front of me is the localizer and glideslope with big vertical and horizontal lines, with a "doughnut" in the center so I know where the lines should cross. In addition I want airspeed (or AOA), altitude and an artifical horizon. The GRT system did this very well. At around $13,000 for a two panel system it is also at about the upper end of what I can afford to pay (I liked the Chelton and Avidyne systems, but at $31,000 and $50,000 respectively, they are out of my price range). I talked with a couple of RV-10 builders at the Van's tent and they mostly seemed to favor either the GRT system or the Dynon. I did like the engine monitor panel that AFS provides, like Van's put on N410RV. I wonder how well it would work to have their engine panel with GRT's EFIS? At the risk of starting a huge thread, I would like to see a discussion of the strong points and weak points of the systems that are in my limited price range, which includes AFS, Dynon, Blue Mountain and GRT. Anyone have actual flying experience (including actual instrument approaches) that they would like to share? Jack Phillips #40610 Raleigh, NC _________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 23, 2007
Subject: Re: EFIS Bewilderment
In a message dated 4/23/2007 11:34:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com writes: When shooting an ILS, all I really want to see in front of me is the localizer and glideslope with big vertical and horizontal lines, with a "doughnut" in the center so I know where the lines should cross. Jack, I've flown the G 1000 several times in actual...and the presentation for the new equipment is not going to be like steam guages...you've got to learn a new system. You can hand fly the G 1000 down the slope using the tapes or one can monitor the approach on the auto pilot as you control pitch and power. As far as I know, no one is replicating a steam guage face in modern avionics, not the airlines, corp or ga...Once you get with the tapes and an EFIS they are all in one place right infront of you...you don't need to scan side to side and up and down...it's all bacially straight a head of you...and if you want to glance at the MFD you can see how you are progressing...the Chilton will even give you a wind correction angle to fly on the EFIS...I don't see how it can be any simpler...some of us ol' dogs got to learn new tricks. P ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 23, 2007
Subject: Re: EFIS Bewilderment
In a message dated 4/23/2007 11:51:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com writes: ...the Chilton will even give you a wind correction angle to fly on the EFIS.. correction...I meant to say EHSI...to many initials an so little time!!! P ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: EFIS Bewilderment
Date: Apr 23, 2007
The Dynon with a Garmin stack including a 430 and a GDL106A NAV display is what N256H, N415EC and N416EC have and all have done actual IFR approaches on this system and it works fine. It really is a great combination of the old (NAV display) and the new (EFIS and IFR GPS). Not all your eggs are in one basket, and it is probably the cheapest good IFR system you can buy. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 11:32 AM Subject: RV10-List: EFIS Bewilderment OK, group. I'm going to expose my ignorance about avionics. I went down to SNF with my primary goal being learning about the various options for EFIS. What I found was a bewildering array of choices at prices ranging from $3,000 to $50,000. Without knowing much about the units and their capabilities, I went to the following vendors, Dynon, Chelton, Avidyne, Grand Rapids Technology (GRT), AFS, and Blue Mountain. I asked each of them to show me how an ILS approach would look on their system. Since I'm instrument rated and learned to fly ILS approaches using convential VOR/GS equipement, I wanted to see how much better the new technology would work. What I found was that no one system has everything I want. Except for GRT, every system I looked at either didn't have a suitable demo configured to show an ILS approach (what are they thinking?), or they could do it, but the Localizer just showed as a small pip on the bottom of the screen, with the Glideslope an equally small pip on the side of the screen. When shooting an ILS, all I really want to see in front of me is the localizer and glideslope with big vertical and horizontal lines, with a "doughnut" in the center so I know where the lines should cross. In addition I want airspeed (or AOA), altitude and an artifical horizon. The GRT system did this very well. At around $13,000 for a two panel system it is also at about the upper end of what I can afford to pay (I liked the Chelton and Avidyne systems, but at $31,000 and $50,000 respectively, they are out of my price range). I talked with a couple of RV-10 builders at the Van's tent and they mostly seemed to favor either the GRT system or the Dynon. I did like the engine monitor panel that AFS provides, like Van's put on N410RV. I wonder how well it would work to have their engine panel with GRT's EFIS? At the risk of starting a huge thread, I would like to see a discussion of the strong points and weak points of the systems that are in my limited price range, which includes AFS, Dynon, Blue Mountain and GRT. Anyone have actual flying experience (including actual instrument approaches) that they would like to share? Jack Phillips #40610 Raleigh, NC _________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: EFIS Bewilderment
Date: Apr 23, 2007
Oh, and don't forget the TruTrak Sorcerer, which will fly the approach for you on the ILS or GPA WAAS. Just remember that it won't flare for you. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 11:32 AM Subject: RV10-List: EFIS Bewilderment OK, group. I'm going to expose my ignorance about avionics. I went down to SNF with my primary goal being learning about the various options for EFIS. What I found was a bewildering array of choices at prices ranging from $3,000 to $50,000. Without knowing much about the units and their capabilities, I went to the following vendors, Dynon, Chelton, Avidyne, Grand Rapids Technology (GRT), AFS, and Blue Mountain. I asked each of them to show me how an ILS approach would look on their system. Since I'm instrument rated and learned to fly ILS approaches using convential VOR/GS equipement, I wanted to see how much better the new technology would work. What I found was that no one system has everything I want. Except for GRT, every system I looked at either didn't have a suitable demo configured to show an ILS approach (what are they thinking?), or they could do it, but the Localizer just showed as a small pip on the bottom of the screen, with the Glideslope an equally small pip on the side of the screen. When shooting an ILS, all I really want to see in front of me is the localizer and glideslope with big vertical and horizontal lines, with a "doughnut" in the center so I know where the lines should cross. In addition I want airspeed (or AOA), altitude and an artifical horizon. The GRT system did this very well. At around $13,000 for a two panel system it is also at about the upper end of what I can afford to pay (I liked the Chelton and Avidyne systems, but at $31,000 and $50,000 respectively, they are out of my price range). I talked with a couple of RV-10 builders at the Van's tent and they mostly seemed to favor either the GRT system or the Dynon. I did like the engine monitor panel that AFS provides, like Van's put on N410RV. I wonder how well it would work to have their engine panel with GRT's EFIS? At the risk of starting a huge thread, I would like to see a discussion of the strong points and weak points of the systems that are in my limited price range, which includes AFS, Dynon, Blue Mountain and GRT. Anyone have actual flying experience (including actual instrument approaches) that they would like to share? Jack Phillips #40610 Raleigh, NC _________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 23, 2007
From: jerry petersen <bldanrv9a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rosen Visors
If you look to the left and below the mount you will notice we prepared a flat area for the mount. When the time came to install the visor we determined it needed to be higher on the door channel. It was too late in the process to make a change but it would be easy to modify the area or form a type of washer or gasket if it looked like it was needed. The visor is very helpful flying into the sun and is a very easy and straitforward solution. Jerry --- Jesse Saint wrote: > I am waiting on a quote from Rosen on a group buy > for their visors. My > opinion is that the Cirrus lense (8x15.5") is the > right lense and a > combination of the Cessna 310 and the Piper base is > the way to go. They are > going to quote me on the combination soon, > hopefully. I told them that I > estimated a group buy of 50 sets, which hopefully > won't be too far off. The > only thing I'm not crazy about is the gap (as seen > in the attached picture) > between the base and the curved portion of the door > channel. For those who > are not finished yet, this would be an easy fix, > just filling that with flox > as was mentioned in another post, but for those with > a finished cabin top, > this will be more difficult, and many will probably > end up just putting it > in an leaving the gap, which would not make a big > structural difference > MAYBE, but would certainly be weaker and more likely > to break with continued > use. I am still thinking about having the CNC shop > make the "perfect base" > is such is possible. I will let you know what I > find out. Also, for those > who purchased a visor at SNF, please post pictures > and dimensions of your > mount. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Jesse Saint > > Saint Aviation, Inc. > > jesse(at)saintaviation.com > > www.saintaviation.com > > Cell: 352-427-0285 > > Fax: 815-377-3694 > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 23, 2007
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Rosen Visors
I flew to SNF in a Cessna 310 with Rosen visors and they are a quality piece. I liked the feature on the 310 version where the lens would slide across by loosening a thumb screw. I noticed on one of your pictures that the Cirrus lens had that feature, but I do not see that feature in the information on the Rosen site. What are you planning? do you think the 310 setup is just too large, too expensive or too square? As for a machined mount, I would think that there is a lot or variability in that area depending on how much shaping and sanding you do on the cabin top. I would think the flox build up would be the best way to go. Larry Rosen (no relation to Rosen visors) Jesse Saint wrote: > > I am waiting on a quote from Rosen on a group buy for their visors. My > opinion is that the Cirrus lense (8x15.5) is the right lense and a > combination of the Cessna 310 and the Piper base is the way to go. > They are going to quote me on the combination soon, hopefully. I told > them that I estimated a group buy of 50 sets, which hopefully wont be > too far off. The only thing Im not crazy about is the gap (as seen in > the attached picture) between the base and the curved portion of the > door channel. For those who are not finished yet, this would be an > easy fix, just filling that with flox as was mentioned in another > post, but for those with a finished cabin top, this will be more > difficult, and many will probably end up just putting it in an leaving > the gap, which would not make a big structural difference MAYBE, but > would certainly be weaker and more likely to break with continued use. > I am still thinking about having the CNC shop make the perfect base > is such is possible. I will let you know what I find out. Also, for > those who purchased a visor at SNF, please post pictures and > dimensions of your mount. > > Thanks. > > Jesse Saint > > Saint Aviation, Inc. > > jesse(at)saintaviation.com > > www.saintaviation.com <http://www.saintaviation.com> > > Cell: 352-427-0285 > > Fax: 815-377-3694 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: EFIS Bewilderment
Date: Apr 23, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Thanks for this and all the other responses on this issue. I'm sure I can learn to fly a different system, and really look forward to my "scan" being limited to one nice easy to ready screen, rather than the usual "6-pack", but until I try it I don't know which one I would like best, and hate to make a multi-thousand dollar mistake. There has already been some useful discussion on this subject. Thanks to all who have replied. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 11:49 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: EFIS Bewilderment In a message dated 4/23/2007 11:34:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com writes: When shooting an ILS, all I really want to see in front of me is the localizer and glideslope with big vertical and horizontal lines, with a "doughnut" in the center so I know where the lines should cross. Jack, I've flown the G 1000 several times in actual...and the presentation for the new equipment is not going to be like steam guages...you've got to learn a new system. You can hand fly the G 1000 down the slope using the tapes or one can monitor the approach on the auto pilot as you control pitch and power. As far as I know, no one is replicating a steam guage face in modern avionics, not the airlines, corp or ga...Once you get with the tapes and an EFIS they are all in one place right infront of you...you don't need to scan side to side and up and down...it's all bacially straight a head of you...and if you want to glance at the MFD you can see how you are progressing...the Chilton will even give you a wind correction angle to fly on the EFIS...I don't see how it can be any simpler...some of us ol' dogs got to learn new tricks. P _____ See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> . _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rtitsworth" <rtitsworth(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: EFIS Bewilderment - CFS questions
Date: Apr 23, 2007
Tim, I'm considering a Chelton (dual sport) as I am sold on the concepts of synthetic vision, flight path/vector, dynamic glide range, etc, and on the stability of Chelton in the market place (D2A fiasco not withstanding). But, I want to make sure I'm not surprised by it's quirks/limitations. 1. Am I right that it doesn't sync flight plans with the 480? Where do you enter you flight plans, amendments, and approach selections - directly on the Chelton only? If so, why have a 480 vs a 430 or vs a bare bones GPS-155 (basic IFR GPS backup) and an SL30? Do you EVER use ANY of the flight planning features of the 480? 2. My understanding is that the 480 allows Victor Airway flight planning. I believe that is not available when planning on the Cheltons - correct? 3. Your earlier post mentioned a potential shortage of ARINC inputs? I'm perhaps a bit ignorant of what's handled via RS232 vs Arinc? etc. Is there any insight/education you can offer here? How is TIS wired to the Chelton? How is a Ryan TCAD wired to a Chelton? How does the Chelton connect to a TT A/P?, etc 4. If I have an SL30 and a 480 how do I decide which radio's NAV signal is used for NAV indications on a) the Chelton, b) the autopilot (Sorcerer), c) a single backup CDI? Does the Chelton accept dual NAV feeds? Or do I need external switches for that - or is it common to hardwire specific radios to each i.e. #1 480 to the Chelton and Sorcerer and #2 SL30 to backup CDI? 5. Am I correct that the only WX available on the Chelton is WSI (not XM)? 6. It seems a drawback of many/most/all of the EFIS systems is their in-capability to display a std approach chart. While the approach may be built-into the DB's for inclusion to the GPS flight plan, I'm still "stuck" on having the std plate view available in the cockpit - so I can see/follow/check it and for min altitudes for circling approaches etc - or to easily look up the ILS/LOC freq. It seems ironic that the info that is being made available for free by the Gov (terps PDF's), is not readily available on anything (except perhaps a laptop in the copilot seat). JEPP View on the GMX200 is perhaps the best alternative - but so much for the gov PDF's. 7. Is there any reason (to your knowledge) to be considering a GMX200 with a Chelton (dual sport) setup. If I had a Chelton dual sport, it seems the GMX200 is just a "nicer" moving map - more surface detail, profile view, etc. 8. One of Garmin's G900 selling points/questions is. "Wonder why few/none of the popular certified GA companies aren't using CFS (which is certified)." Having Cessna, Piper, Cirrus, Columbia, Diamond, Mooney, etc all behind Garmin is perhaps a compelling argument to go with Garmin and wait for them to "catch-up" on synthetic vision. Thoughts/comments? Sorry for all the "rookie" questions. Rick ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: EFIS Bewilderment - CFS questions
Date: Apr 23, 2007
If you want plates in the panel, then you might consider looking into trueflight's software and possibly either a Flight Cheetah or similar system to display weather and charts. The nice thing there is that the updates for all map data and approach plates is $200/year. Another option would be a pocket PC with anywhere plates on it or something like that. The updates are a little bit more, but not even approaching anywhere near the cost of Jepp plates. It's kinda nice to know you have plates for everywhere no matter where you are going or where you want to divert to. The problem with going Garmin and waiting for them to "catch up" is that they have almost no incentive to catch up. They have such a huge market share, and don't seem to stand much risk of losing it, that they can keep spitting out the same stuff at the same or higher price and the market just bucks up and deals with it. Look how long it took to get WAAS on the 430 and 530, and how much it costs. Don't expect Garmin to jump on new things very fast. They got into the weather business because they knew they needed something for that to keep their handheld market, but have you tried to read a 396 screen in sunlight? It reflects like a mirror. Can't see a thing in the sunlight, hardly, although that is the time when you least need to see the weather also, in most cases. I will still go Garmin for my stack, but that's because everybody knows how to use them, which is worth a lot. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rtitsworth Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 5:09 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: EFIS Bewilderment - CFS questions Tim, I'm considering a Chelton (dual sport) as I am sold on the concepts of synthetic vision, flight path/vector, dynamic glide range, etc, and on the stability of Chelton in the market place (D2A fiasco not withstanding). But, I want to make sure I'm not surprised by it's quirks/limitations. 1. Am I right that it doesn't sync flight plans with the 480? Where do you enter you flight plans, amendments, and approach selections - directly on the Chelton only? If so, why have a 480 vs a 430 or vs a bare bones GPS-155 (basic IFR GPS backup) and an SL30? Do you EVER use ANY of the flight planning features of the 480? 2. My understanding is that the 480 allows Victor Airway flight planning. I believe that is not available when planning on the Cheltons - correct? 3. Your earlier post mentioned a potential shortage of ARINC inputs? I'm perhaps a bit ignorant of what's handled via RS232 vs Arinc? etc. Is there any insight/education you can offer here? How is TIS wired to the Chelton? How is a Ryan TCAD wired to a Chelton? How does the Chelton connect to a TT A/P?, etc 4. If I have an SL30 and a 480 how do I decide which radio's NAV signal is used for NAV indications on a) the Chelton, b) the autopilot (Sorcerer), c) a single backup CDI? Does the Chelton accept dual NAV feeds? Or do I need external switches for that - or is it common to hardwire specific radios to each i.e. #1 480 to the Chelton and Sorcerer and #2 SL30 to backup CDI? 5. Am I correct that the only WX available on the Chelton is WSI (not XM)? 6. It seems a drawback of many/most/all of the EFIS systems is their in-capability to display a std approach chart. While the approach may be built-into the DB's for inclusion to the GPS flight plan, I'm still "stuck" on having the std plate view available in the cockpit - so I can see/follow/check it and for min altitudes for circling approaches etc - or to easily look up the ILS/LOC freq. It seems ironic that the info that is being made available for free by the Gov (terps PDF's), is not readily available on anything (except perhaps a laptop in the copilot seat). JEPP View on the GMX200 is perhaps the best alternative - but so much for the gov PDF's. 7. Is there any reason (to your knowledge) to be considering a GMX200 with a Chelton (dual sport) setup. If I had a Chelton dual sport, it seems the GMX200 is just a "nicer" moving map - more surface detail, profile view, etc. 8. One of Garmin's G900 selling points/questions is. "Wonder why few/none of the popular certified GA companies aren't using CFS (which is certified)." Having Cessna, Piper, Cirrus, Columbia, Diamond, Mooney, etc all behind Garmin is perhaps a compelling argument to go with Garmin and wait for them to "catch-up" on synthetic vision. Thoughts/comments?

RV10-Archive.digest.vol-ce

RV10-Archive.digest.vol-ce