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RV10-Archive.digest.vol-cf
April 23, 2007 - May 07, 2007

Sorry for all the "rookie" questions. Rick ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rtitsworth" <rtitsworth(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: EFIS Bewilderment - CFS questions
Date: Apr 23, 2007
Thanks! My (personal) opinion is the pocket plates are pretty small when it comes to actually trying to read them in real IMC conditions/workloads (especially single pilot). Your Garmin (little motivation) view is interesting/plausible. The 430W/530W upgrade delays certainly were a black eye for them. It wouldn't be hard to imagine a similar issue with the G1000/G900's and synthetic vision. If it's "just software" why isn't it already there in the first place? Rick _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 5:41 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: EFIS Bewilderment - CFS questions If you want plates in the panel, then you might consider looking into trueflight's software and possibly either a Flight Cheetah or similar system to display weather and charts. The nice thing there is that the updates for all map data and approach plates is $200/year. Another option would be a pocket PC with anywhere plates on it or something like that. The updates are a little bit more, but not even approaching anywhere near the cost of Jepp plates. It's kinda nice to know you have plates for everywhere no matter where you are going or where you want to divert to. The problem with going Garmin and waiting for them to "catch up" is that they have almost no incentive to catch up. They have such a huge market share, and don't seem to stand much risk of losing it, that they can keep spitting out the same stuff at the same or higher price and the market just bucks up and deals with it. Look how long it took to get WAAS on the 430 and 530, and how much it costs. Don't expect Garmin to jump on new things very fast. They got into the weather business because they knew they needed something for that to keep their handheld market, but have you tried to read a 396 screen in sunlight? It reflects like a mirror. Can't see a thing in the sunlight, hardly, although that is the time when you least need to see the weather also, in most cases. I will still go Garmin for my stack, but that's because everybody knows how to use them, which is worth a lot. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rtitsworth Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 5:09 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: EFIS Bewilderment - CFS questions Tim, I'm considering a Chelton (dual sport) as I am sold on the concepts of synthetic vision, flight path/vector, dynamic glide range, etc, and on the stability of Chelton in the market place (D2A fiasco not withstanding). But, I want to make sure I'm not surprised by it's quirks/limitations. 1. Am I right that it doesn't sync flight plans with the 480? Where do you enter you flight plans, amendments, and approach selections - directly on the Chelton only? If so, why have a 480 vs a 430 or vs a bare bones GPS-155 (basic IFR GPS backup) and an SL30? Do you EVER use ANY of the flight planning features of the 480? 2. My understanding is that the 480 allows Victor Airway flight planning. I believe that is not available when planning on the Cheltons - correct? 3. Your earlier post mentioned a potential shortage of ARINC inputs? I'm perhaps a bit ignorant of what's handled via RS232 vs Arinc? etc. Is there any insight/education you can offer here? How is TIS wired to the Chelton? How is a Ryan TCAD wired to a Chelton? How does the Chelton connect to a TT A/P?, etc 4. If I have an SL30 and a 480 how do I decide which radio's NAV signal is used for NAV indications on a) the Chelton, b) the autopilot (Sorcerer), c) a single backup CDI? Does the Chelton accept dual NAV feeds? Or do I need external switches for that - or is it common to hardwire specific radios to each i.e. #1 480 to the Chelton and Sorcerer and #2 SL30 to backup CDI? 5. Am I correct that the only WX available on the Chelton is WSI (not XM)? 6. It seems a drawback of many/most/all of the EFIS systems is their in-capability to display a std approach chart. While the approach may be built-into the DB's for inclusion to the GPS flight plan, I'm still "stuck" on having the std plate view available in the cockpit - so I can see/follow/check it and for min altitudes for circling approaches etc - or to easily look up the ILS/LOC freq. It seems ironic that the info that is being made available for free by the Gov (terps PDF's), is not readily available on anything (except perhaps a laptop in the copilot seat). JEPP View on the GMX200 is perhaps the best alternative - but so much for the gov PDF's. 7. Is there any reason (to your knowledge) to be considering a GMX200 with a Chelton (dual sport) setup. If I had a Chelton dual sport, it seems the GMX200 is just a "nicer" moving map - more surface detail, profile view, etc. 8. One of Garmin's G900 selling points/questions is. "Wonder why few/none of the popular certified GA companies aren't using CFS (which is certified)." Having Cessna, Piper, Cirrus, Columbia, Diamond, Mooney, etc all behind Garmin is perhaps a compelling argument to go with Garmin and wait for them to "catch-up" on synthetic vision. Thoughts/comments? Sorry for all the "rookie" questions. Rick <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List <http://forums.matronics.com> http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 23, 2007
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: EFIS Bewilderment - CFS questions
Sorry if this reply seems to be a bandwidth waster to some. If you have no interest in the reply, just delete now. Rick, I'll reply inline so I can go step by step through it. rtitsworth wrote: > Tim, > I'm considering a Chelton (dual sport) as I am sold on the concepts of > synthetic vision, flight path/vector, dynamic glide range, etc, and on > the stability of Chelton in the market place (D2A fiasco not > withstanding). But, I want to make sure I'm not surprised by it's > quirks/limitations. > > 1. Am I right that it doesnt sync flight plans with the 480? Where do > you enter you flight plans, amendments, and approach selections - > directly on the Chelton only? If so, why have a 480 vs a 430 or vs a > bare bones GPS-155 (basic IFR GPS backup) and an SL30? Do you EVER use > ANY of the flight planning features of the 480? Yes, sync'ing flight plans is not something that it can do. You'd have to enter the flight plan into the 480 if you want to have it loaded. You do all of your flight plan entry, your amendments, and approach selection directly into the Chelton. It has a very powerful and easy to use flight planning system. For me, it was pretty intuitive. That said, I'd highly recommend for anyone SERIOUSLY interested in the system that they read Keith Thomassen's user guide. He shows some of the power and the features and how to use them, right in the book. It's one of those things that I finally just got less than a month ago, and after reading it, I learned even more. It's a great thing that would push many people over the edge on their decision too, once you see some of the features it has in use. It's very easy to quickly amend or reroute, or for that matter do a pop-up approach in an emergency. You can load it in seconds if you have to. As for why having the 480/430 or other....I wasn't going to keep myself on a tight budget while building a dream machine, so since I was going to spend money on another nav/com, and another GPS (and the 480 gave me WAAS LPV approaches too), and the price was well under a 530, and it fit in the panel, I decided not to short myself and just get that. You ask if I EVER use any of the flight planning features of the 480... well, actually, I never have and BIG reason to, so I rarely have. It's been my personal assignment for 2007....to better learn that box. So, I bought the manual that Keith made for that box now too, and I'm 1/2 way through it. Regardless of its shortcomings in regards to integrating data with the CFS, it's a very powerful box. It would give me the ability to fly most any approach, even with full EFIS failure. In the past I've loaded and watched flight plans go by on the 480, but it was more just to see if I could do it....not because I had a big reason to. The CFS flight planner is easier to use, and it rivals the 480's abilities too. > > 2. My understanding is that the 480 allows Victor Airway flight > planning. I believe that is not available when planning on the Cheltons > correct? > No, that's not correct. On the CFS (you could see this in Keith's guide on page 6 if you get it) it shows how to file using airways. You basically can enter your airway just like you'd enter a waypoint on the flightplan, and when you enter an airway, it will ask you for an endpoint along that airway....so you just choose the endpoint and can then hop from there to either another airway or direct to, or whatever you want to do. Also, one of the cool features for those who get WSI too, is that on the flight planning page it actually displays weather too, so you can enter your plan, route your plan around the weather, and then go call ATC and file it. When you see the flight planning page in action, you'll see it's MUCH nicer than a 430 or 480 with that much screen real-estate and color available...it makes things very clear. If a user was willing to leave their backup plan as flying somewhere for an ILS in case of EFIS failure, you really have no need at all for a 430 or 480....and a SL-30 would do just fine. Also, with the autopilot, if you fly the CFS, you don't really NEED a sorcerer, so you'll save a few thousand there. Where the sorcerer adds function is that it will allow you to fly some approaches with something like a 430, if you have a full EFIS failure. The GNS480 though also integrates to the DFIIVSGV much like the CFS, so except for ILS type approaches, you're really not missing much if you skip the sorcerer. > > > 3. Your earlier post mentioned a potential shortage of ARINC inputs? > I'm perhaps a bit ignorant of what's handled via RS232 vs Arinc? etc. > Is there any insight/education you can offer here? How is TIS wired to > the Chelton? How is a Ryan TCAD wired to a Chelton? How does the > Chelton connect to a TT A/P?, etc > I can speak for the GTX330 for TIS...that's wired by using an ARINC to serial converter. The ARINC comes out of the 330 and gets converted to serial for the CFS. The converter box is around $1200, and it adds one ARINC Tx circuit, and 2 ARINC Rx circuits to the Chelton Sport. The Pro already has more ARINC ports than the Sport. If you have that converter box, you really don't need more ports at all, but you will want that converter if you have a 330 for TIS. The Ryan TCAD, from what I understand, is wired RS-232, so that should need no extras, but I haven't wired one to give verification of that. The chelton talks to the TT AP using ARINC and RS-232 both. The ARINC is required for GPSV functionality, and the RS-232 provides basic GPS track info and things like that, so you can do GPSS too. The only fly in that ointment is that the TT AP only can do low speed ARINC, unless there is something they don't say in the manual....but that doesn't mean it doesn't work fine. The shortage of ARINC inputs though, if you have that converter, isn't really an issue....it's just that it would be nice not to have to buy the converter. I don't know if you'd need it or not if you had a pro system with a 330 transponder. > 4. If I have an SL30 and a 480 how do I decide which radio's NAV signal > is used for NAV indications on a) the Chelton, b) the autopilot > (Sorcerer), c) a single backup CDI? Does the Chelton accept dual NAV > feeds? Or do I need external switches for that - or is it common to > hardwire specific radios to each i.e. #1 480 to the Chelton and Sorcerer > and #2 SL30 to backup CDI? > I would use your SL30 as your #1 Nav/Com, because that's the one that integrates best. You'll be able to display BOTH the active and standby NAV indication from the SL30, so you don't really need a #2 NAV to do things like triangulation. You can also monitor 2nd NAV and COM signals on the 480, but not display them on the big screens. If you then have the sorcerer, you would want to pull ARINC, Serial, and NAV signals from the 480 to the TruTrak. If you use a DFIIVSGV, you'd just pull ARINC and Serial. The single backup CDI if you add one would just tie directly to the 480. For me, I've only used it on some practice approaches, but I just like having that CDI in case I ever actually wanted to use it. As for accepting dual NAV feeds, sure, it could, but you'll already have that with the SL-30, so I don't think you'd do more that that...and you don't need external switches. As for your last sentence, I'd change that to: #1 NAV Radio (SL-30) putting BOTH CDI's on the CFS, and #2 NAV Radio (480) putting NO CDI's on the CFS, but just to the backup CDI. Your system (the 480) would then truly be an independent backup. > > 5. Am I correct that the only WX available on the Chelton is WSI (not XM)? > Yes, other than the CFS actually can do ADS-B's free weather too, if it's available in your area, and you have the Garmin GDL XXX (whatever) box that is sold for ADS-B. But I've heard that even Garmin says not to bother because ADS-B's free weather stinks in comparison to what the commercial ones offer...very limited feature set. XM isn't able to be displayed right now. Perhaps in the future, but I'd just plan to go WSI because anything else would be hopeful vaporware for some time, and may never happen. The WSI does work very well though. I can't wait to see how it works when they swap to Sirius. > > 6. It seems a drawback of many/most/all of the EFIS systems is their > in-capability to display a std approach chart. While the approach may > be built-into the DBs for inclusion to the GPS flight plan, Im still > stuck on having the std plate view available in the cockpit - so I can > see/follow/check it and for min altitudes for circling approaches etc > or to easily look up the ILS/LOC freq. It seems ironic that the info > that is being made available for free by the Gov (terps PDFs), is not > readily available on anything (except perhaps a laptop in the copilot > seat). JEPP View on the GMX200 is perhaps the best alternative but so > much for the gov PDFs. > I'm 1/2 with you there, and 1/2 not. You're right, having a quick way to display it would be nice...no disagreement there. But, I would also not want it taking up my display all of the time during an approach. Also, in general I actually think I prefer the smaller screens of the CFS that allow you to locate them differently and have more of them, to the larger screens on things like a G900, but the larger screens would be nicer to display those charts. You're right that it's nice to have the info available though. The info you need is actually usually available on the CFS, so you can choose NRST - ILS and get Freq's and stuff no problem, and actually also auto-fill them into your SL-30. The other downside that so many people forget about the Chart options on their EFIS is that not only is it an expensive option, but it's an expensive option that you have to subscribe to. OUCH! Don't get me started on the "Free" data from the gov't vs. the super-high-priced Jepp stuff!! It's just WAY too expensive to pay for all sorts of databases! In general, you could VERY easily fly most any approach on the CFS without having a paper or electronic chart in front of you, and you'd have much of the info you'd want. The things that are lacking are things like the time in seconds for the approach using Categories A, B, C.... and so on. But with full vertical guidance on the approach, with stepdowns, you really have everything you need to survive without a chart. But, that's not to say I'd ever want to go WITHOUT a chart. What works for me is twofold. #1, I print paper charts before major trips, of at least a couple of main approaches at my planned stops. These are your down and dirty backups, and hey, it's just nice to have paper sometimes so you can not push buttons, can fold it to a kneeboard, and so you can leave your EFIS screens set up the way you want during an approach and not screw with them. Then, #2, I've also bought Golden Eagle Chart Case Express (and use Golden Eagle's free Flight Prep for flight planning) on my motion tablet PC. Now THAT is some pretty cool software! It allows me to do a couple things....A) Take my tablet on vacations to save weight, and use at the hotel as a PC for email, and also for flight planning, and B) to use in the cockpit for not only ALL of my charts, both IFR and VFR, and approaches, but as a backup GPS. With my little gum packaged sized Bluetooth GPS, I get full track overlays on all my charts, even Low-alt Enroute, and on the approach charts. So before the approach, I boot it up, it has huge buttons to hit with the pen to load the approach, and then I look at the approach chart and write the critical data on my kneeboard sheet. Then, I turn the tablet over to my wife who just watches the approach on that occasionally. Again, you can see it very well on the CFS screens, so at that point it's not really needed, but it's pretty cool to see in action. And, being a tablet, you can put it where you want it, even in the back seat for the passengers to monitor if you want. The kids use the tablet to watch our track where we are sometimes. The kicker is, for ALL of the charts in the US, the price easily beats trying to buy sectionals, L-A Enroute, and approach plates, plus you get WAC's and others. So, even if you didn't have an updated database, you still have all your updated charts and can do what you want. It's handy for me anyway. Sorry that was such a long topic, but, just don't forget to add in the cost of the ChartView option and ask about the subscription price on the charts, if you get it on an EFIS. If a company did it all with free data, it wouldn't be so bad, but that's an option that I think catches peoples attention initially until they realize the cost involved. Database updates to be legal (and you DO want to be legal, right?) aren't a cheap thing...and in fact can make WSI weather look like a bargain. Even paper chart subscriptions add up to hundreds of dollars a year for IFR/VFR/Approach capability. > > 7. Is there any reason (to your knowledge) to be considering a GMX200 > with a Chelton (dual sport) setup. If I had a Chelton dual sport, it > seems the GMX200 is just a nicer moving map more surface detail, > profile view, etc. > No, if you're getting a CFS, you I would skip the GMX200. It's an expensive, but sweet and powerful box, but adding the options to your CFS will be far cheaper than buying a GMX200 and adding the options there. You're right that the map itself looks nicer on the GMX200...I won't kid you there, but the CFS does a great job with it, and one of the reasons the detail isn't there is to declutter. As you ascend, it declutters obstructions, terrain, and more, just to give you a more manageable screen. The CFS even has ways to show where radar coverage is available, without making it a cluttered mess (using brighter and darker areas). My original panel designs had multiple GRT screens and an MX-20 with all the options. It was the options and the costs of going that route that got so high. For those on a budget, you can EASILY beat the CFS and many others in price, but when you start to load up on the higher-end features, the amount of "stuff" you get integrated onto a CFS MFD starts to make it very cost effective against the other top systems. The question is, do you really want the capabilities or not. You can fly IFR with a 6-pack, so you can do it with a far less capable system too...but, some of these features also add huge amounts of safety. Just read this issue of Flying mag on Richard Collins's analysis of some Christmas flying accidents....when I read that, my thought was, "man, with the screens I'm flying, those same accidents would be pretty darn hard to have happen unless you had some equipment failure." There's a LOT helpful data there. > 8. One of Garmins G900 selling points/questions is Wonder why > few/none of the popular certified GA companies arent using CFS (which > is certified). Having Cessna, Piper, Cirrus, Columbia, Diamond, > Mooney, etc all behind Garmin is perhaps a compelling argument to go > with Garmin and wait for them to catch-up on synthetic vision. > Thoughts/comments? > Well, for one thing, Garmin is like the Microsoft of the avionics market. They are very hard for anyone to compete with. In fact, I'd say that if they ever stuck their nose into the low or mid-end EFIS market, they'd probably clobber ALL of the low and mid systems right out of the marketplace. Second, CFS is not at all good at trying to price their systems into a market. They price them based on their own formulas. Unfortunately, it seems that means the price is on the higher side. If you price a certified CFS system, you'll find it isn't cheap at all. Then, consider the bones in the form of pricing discounts that Garmin would be able to throw a major airplane manufacturer. Do you think it's possible Garmin gives a discount to the companies that agree to stick in their systems? If you've ever heard any info on the pricing of Garmin systems, I think you'd belive so. I'm not at all saying it's a bad system, but, companies make their decisions based heavily on financial reasons, so I'd bet that's a big factor. Also, I'd bet that's part of why you see a decline in the Avidyne stuff in recent days...and why Avidyne is starting to think about the low end market a bit more. IMHO, Avidyne makes a better, sweeter display than Garmin, but, it seems like they also have trouble competing. To me, that quote you listed above is just a marketing quote, used to put FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) into the buyer...it's a great way to get them to 2nd guess what they're contemplating and just go with the "safe" choice that everyone else does. CFS is certified, but it's not a huge company....it's a small specialized company that's a part of a huge company, and they'll live and die by their own products successes and failures. To me, it seems that they've not done too bad, since they have a well working product, that not only has a great synthetic vision feature set, but managed to become certified while doing it too. I agree, Garmin will probably catch up some day, but how many approaches could you have in before that happens? I feel so much safer flying in IMC over my old vacuum driven six-pack, it's just ridiculous. I'm sure many people would say the same about any EFIS system, but the Synthetic vision for some people could be a huge benefit. I'm sure it'll be a popular future add-on for most any EFIS vendor that wants to stay viable. Sorry everyone that this was so long. Please understand that there are people out there that do care to read it though. I get a lot of personal emails, and since this was asked on-list, the reply may benefit a few people who are interested other than just Rick. Tim > Sorry for all the rookie questions. > > Rick > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GenGrumpy(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 23, 2007
Subject: Re: EFIS Bewilderment - CFS questions
For what its worth, my assessment of the Cheltons is pretty much in line with Tim's. I am very happy with how it is mechanized (very simple to operate) and with a lot of prior flying time in uncle Sam's best, these Cheltons come closest to what the fast guys are using these days...... Only Garmin's I have in my plane are 2 SL-30's and the GTX 327. grumpy N184JM ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 23, 2007
From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: EFIS Bewilderment - CFS questions
Tim Olson wrote: > > Sorry if this reply seems to be a bandwidth waster to some. If you have > no interest in the reply, just delete now. > Jack, thanks for opening the door here. Rick, thanks for detailing it out. Tim, thanks for sharing the experience. Everyone, thanks for the rest of the thread. Bandwidth is rarely spent so well. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Inside of cabin top.
Date: Apr 23, 2007
Now that my cabin top fit is as good as it is going to get, this coming weekend will be spent working on the patching up the flaws and doing some interior refinement. I have seen the overhead consols which are used for ventilation and lighting, but has anyone installed anything else up there. It seems that there is a natural channel directly behind where the windscreen joins to the top where a 1/4 flexible conduit could be run. I will be putting a few LED dome lights up on the ceiling, but aside from the above mentioned, did anyone else put in any switches or flap controls or anything else that one could imagine (Apollo space craft look) Jesse, Is there any picture that you could direct me to so that I could see the proposed Overhead visor extension arm and where you are planning to mount it. I may have missed an e-mail which showed some info. It will be posible for me to make my own overheads out of hotwired foam and glass and then pour acetone on the foam to melt it out before rejoining it to the top, but I need someting to put in the compartments other than sunglasses to make it worth the time. Any suggestions. My creative mind wants to know. JOhn G. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 23, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Rosen Visors
Don't get hung up on the size or shape of the plastic visor. I had Rosen's in my Baron, and For $10 I went to TAP plastic and picked up tinted plexi and cut it to my 'custom' shape. The mount and the features are much more important. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Jesse Saint wrote: > > Thanks for the feedback. In regards to your questions, I think the 310 > visor is all 3 (too large, too expensive and too square). The Cirrus visor > is more rounded (fitting the style of the plane), plenty big IMHO for both > the Cirrus and the RV-10, and cheaper (for whatever reason) than the 310 > visor. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Apr 24, 2007
Subject: Re: Rosen Visors
Deems, Deems, Deems,.,,,............ =2E...You cannot put $10 tinted Plexi in a DREAM plane. You need to go to Sun N Fun, pay $300+ for this Tinted Plexi .............THEN convince yourself you just got a great deal. Please don't crush those that feel the need to spend mucho bucks for Novel items for their plane project f or which they CLAIM they do not have a budget for....................... (SARCASM). I saw my friends Glastar the other day...........He bought some white 1/ 4" waffle board, cut two visors out of it (8" x 15"). He then took 3/8" hollow aluminium tubes and cut a slit in them..........then slid the wa ffle board onto the aluminium tube slits. Mounted it in his Glastar and now has 2 visors for $6.99. They are lightweight, can be painted any c olor, and block the sun nicely. More then one way to build a $250,000 p lane for under $100,000 and still have nice amenities inside. I realize some will consider that a blasphemous statement.........but doing your homework, ignoring the norm whle getting creative, and shopping around c an be fun when building these Dream Birds. P.S. The other day I made a few thought generating statements about th e different EFIS units that are on the market and how they compare WEIGH T wise. Since then Tim and Jesse have made excellent points on what to consider when purchasing one. For those who have already decided THEIR system is the best and have YET to even fly one hour behind it please i gnore this post. For those that want to consider PROS and CONS of other units feel free to respond. When you are considering EFIS units there are several NEEDS, WANTS, and NICE TO HAVES. I think you need to priori tize your needs first..........also eliminate those units that are budge t breakers. Once you have done this and have narrowed your choices get time FLYING behind the ones you are still considering. All other input from online "experts" will most likely just confuse you and frustrate yo ur wife/friends with all your agonizing. Mounting ease, SPACE required (panel AND subpanel) need to be considered, and WEIGHT. Just my 20 cents worth, DEAN 40449
Deems, Deems, Deems,.,,,............

....You cannot put $10 tinted Plexi in a DREAM plane. You need to go to Sun N Fun, pay $300+ for this Tinted Plexi .............THEN co nvince yourself you just got a great deal. Please don't crush thos e that feel the need to spend mucho bucks for Novel items for their plan e project for which they CLAIM they do not have a budget for............ ...........(SARCASM).

I saw my friends Glastar the other day...........He bought some white 1/4" waffle board, cut two visors out of it (8" x 15"). He then t ook 3/8" hollow aluminium tubes and cut a slit in them..........then sli d the waffle board onto the aluminium tube slits. Mounted it in hi s Glastar and now has 2 visors for $6.99. They are lightweight, ca n be painted any color, and block the sun nicely. More then o ne way to build a $250,000 plane for under $100,000 and still have nice amenities inside. I realize some will consider that a blasphemous statement.........but doing your homework, ignoring the norm whle gettin g creative, and shopping around can be fun when building these Drea m Birds.

P.S.   The other day I made a few thought generating statem ents about the different EFIS units that are on the market and how they compare WEIGHT wise. Since then Tim and Jesse have made excellent points on what to consider when purchasing one.   For those wh o have already decided THEIR system is the best and have YET to even fly one hour behind it please ignore this post. For those that want t o consider PROS and CONS of other units feel free to respond. When you are considering EFIS units there are several NEEDS, WANTS, and NICE TO HAVES. I think you need to prioritize your needs first........ ..also eliminate those units that are budget breakers. Once you ha ve done this and have narrowed your choices get time FLYING behind the o nes you are still considering. All other input from online "expert s" will most likely just confuse you and frustrate your wife/friends wit h all your agonizing. Mounting ease, SPACE required (panel AND sub panel) need to be considered, and WEIGHT.

Just my 20 cents worth,

DEAN 40449

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Subject: Re: Engine Mount Question
Date: Apr 24, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
A question along the same line... I've seen many times on this list that we need the small mounting ears on an (I)O-540 to fit the Van's mount. Can anyone tell me the diameter of the holes on the small mounting ears? I've got a O-540-A1D5 from an Aztec, that I assumed to have the large mounting ears. I then bought a set of mounting ears on ebay that were described as the small hole ears. When I received them, I found them to have the same size hole as the ones I already have on the engine (I believe the diameter is about 1.40"). What is the correct hole size to fit the RV-10 mounts? Jack Phillips #40610 Tailcone -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim(at)CombsFive.Com Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 5:04 PM Subject: Re: Re: RV10-List: Engine Mount Question Ahhh..... Thanks, I had not considered the different angles. I will get the different engine mounts. Thanks, Jim C _________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength?
From: "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net>
Date: Apr 24, 2007
Wow, thanks for all your replys. Lets see if I can get the KITPLANE magazine here in CH. Best Regards from Switzerland Michael (who has quit his job to go full time building) -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108832#108832 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: LoPresti Boom Beams for RV-10
From: "Jim & Julie Wade" <jwade(at)msdeltawireless.com>
Date: Apr 24, 2007
Our plane was displayed at LoPresti. They installed the lights on Monday before S&F. There is no way to describe the difference they make. You can run them full time with little power drain and 5000 hour bulb life. They will be offering them on the website soon. They did not want to advertize them until they had some installed. They are also looking at making a new cowl for the RV-10. These lites make a lot more since than to chop up theleading edge to install HID lights. The kit will come with everything to install the lights. Blue Skies Jim & Julie Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108845#108845 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Mount Question
Date: Apr 24, 2007
The large holes are 2" in diameter, so it appears that you now have 2 sets of the right mounts. How much did you pay on Ebay and do they have a yellow tag or some other verification that they are good? Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 6:49 AM Subject: RE: Re: RV10-List: Engine Mount Question A question along the same line... I've seen many times on this list that we need the small mounting ears on an (I)O-540 to fit the Van's mount. Can anyone tell me the diameter of the holes on the small mounting ears? I've got a O-540-A1D5 from an Aztec, that I assumed to have the large mounting ears. I then bought a set of mounting ears on ebay that were described as the small hole ears. When I received them, I found them to have the same size hole as the ones I already have on the engine (I believe the diameter is about 1.40"). What is the correct hole size to fit the RV-10 mounts? Jack Phillips #40610 Tailcone -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim(at)CombsFive.Com Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 5:04 PM Subject: Re: Re: RV10-List: Engine Mount Question Ahhh..... Thanks, I had not considered the different angles. I will get the different engine mounts. Thanks, Jim C _________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: EFIS
Date: Apr 24, 2007
From: <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero>
"I'm just beginning to understand what "fully integrated" means" But remember that everybody's marketing department has a different definition of "fully integrated" . . . In response to Rick: "Having Cessna, Piper, Cirrus, Columbia, Diamond, Mooney, etc all behind Garmin", note that Cirrus is an Avidyne customer, not Garmin. Garmin has a big advantage known as "incredible piles of cash", too . . . TDT Tim Dawson-Townsend Aurora Flight Sciences tdt(at)aurora.aero 617-401-2522 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Re: Builder Numbers
Date: Apr 24, 2007
Here is a pic when it was being installed. At the edges I just folded about 1/2" of material back under and glued it down. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ -----Original Message----- Albert, So what does your headliner treatment look like? Maybe Deems can post some photos on his site. Larry Rosen ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine Mount Question
Date: Apr 24, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
I paid $237 for the set. There is no paperwork with them, but the parts look good. If I were to use them, I would probably run a dye-penetrant inspection on them to make sure they were not cracked. Before I sell them I need to verify the diameter of the holes, since I'm running off of memory. Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 5:39 AM Subject: RE: Re: RV10-List: Engine Mount Question The large holes are 2" in diameter, so it appears that you now have 2 sets of the right mounts. How much did you pay on Ebay and do they have a yellow tag or some other verification that they are good? Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 6:49 AM Subject: RE: Re: RV10-List: Engine Mount Question A question along the same line... I've seen many times on this list that we need the small mounting ears on an (I)O-540 to fit the Van's mount. Can anyone tell me the diameter of the holes on the small mounting ears? I've got a O-540-A1D5 from an Aztec, that I assumed to have the large mounting ears. I then bought a set of mounting ears on ebay that were described as the small hole ears. When I received them, I found them to have the same size hole as the ones I already have on the engine (I believe the diameter is about 1.40"). What is the correct hole size to fit the RV-10 mounts? Jack Phillips #40610 Tailcone -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim(at)CombsFive.Com Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 5:04 PM Subject: Re: Re: RV10-List: Engine Mount Question Ahhh..... Thanks, I had not considered the different angles. I will get the different engine mounts. Thanks, Jim C _________________________________________________ _________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength?
Date: Apr 24, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
They have an excellent website. The subscription is probably better than an electronic version but you will have to ask others. Occasionally the topics are a little off the mark but most of the articles will hit a "Wow that was a great article this edition". John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Wellenzohn Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 3:53 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength? Wow, thanks for all your replys. Lets see if I can get the KITPLANE magazine here in CH. Best Regards from Switzerland Michael (who has quit his job to go full time building) -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108832#108832 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 2007
From: "bruce breckenridge" <bbreckenridge(at)gmail.com>
Subject: RG-58au/cu RG-400u
I've been reading Mr. Nuckolls' publication and viewing some of the websites of those well ahead of me. I understand that RG-400u is 8x more expensive and very important in the panel for the sake of interference. I could use RG-400u out the wings as well for wingtip antennae, but it appears to be an overkill. IF for some reason I have 2 antennas in one wingtip and want to run separate coax lines out to them, can I use 2 lines of RG-58au side by side without some type of interference between them? Bruce 40018 wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Apr 24, 2007
Subject: Re: Inside of cabin top.
Misquoted and misunderstood...................:) Dean
Misquoted and misunderstood...................:)

Dean

________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Inside of cabin top.
From: "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net>
Date: Apr 24, 2007
John, Here are some ideas from Sun-N-Fun. I took more pics that can be found on Deem's website under SNF 2007. Zack -------- RV8 #80125 RV10 # 40512 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109086#109086 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc07478_128.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc07464_134.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc07428_2_105.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc07395_2_142.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc07380_720.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc07359_2_590.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Packing Lists
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Apr 25, 2007
I attended the Synergy class in Eugene Oregon. What he did was seperate the parts that we used to build the 5 empenage pieces. He told us that you had best purchase these translucent plastic - approx 14x9x2 boxes at Home Depot. The boxes are inexpensive and GREAT. You can see inside of them and label the tops with the contents and the bag number. They have 24 compartmens for rivits and bolts. I tried buying a similar box at Harbor Freight, but the idiots put a sticky label on top and I could not get it off. The HD boxes also have rounded bottoms that make grabbing the items easy. [Laughing] I bought 3 boxes from Depot, but I wish that I had initially bought 4. I am shy a few compartments -------- OSH '08 or Bust Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109122#109122 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 25, 2007
Subject: Re: LoPresti Boom Beams for RV-10
In a message dated 4/24/2007 9:26:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rvbuilder(at)sausen.net writes: experience of LoPresti jumps into the RV-10 fray. Certainly LoPresti makes some interesting quality speed mods...but at a cost that many RV builders may not want to invest in...unless they have lower margins for experimental aircraft? Hopefully they will be competitive. P ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 25, 2007
Subject: Re: EFIS
In a message dated 4/24/2007 10:04:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero writes: =9CHaving Cessna, Piper, Cirrus, Columbia, Diamond, Mooney, etc all be hind Garmin=9D, note that Cirrus is an Avidyne customer, not Garmin. At Piper they selected Avidyne initially in the Toga now I understand that the Garmin 1000 is an option... P ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Apr 25, 2007
Subject: Re: LoPresti Boom Beams for RV-10
Expect to be ridiculed for even suggesting RV10 builders should consider COSTS for these add-ons...............RV10 builders do not have a budge t according to most. Dean 40449 Too cold to paint!
Expect to be ridiculed for even suggesting RV10 builders should consider COSTS for these add-ons...............RV10 builders do not hav e a budget according to most.    http://webma il.juno.com/RTE/HTMLRTAImages/Emoticons/wink_smile.gif">

Dean 40449

Too cold to paint!

________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com>
Subject: Working with Composites: RV-10
Date: Apr 25, 2007
AirCrafters' composite class is on schedule for this weekend. We'll have an untrimmed top to fit to it's fuselage, plus lots of other hands-on projects. We still have room for two or three more attendees. More information here: http://www.aircraftersllc.com/seminars.htm Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 2007
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Tunnel Access
Just wanted to let you guys know I cut a hole in my tunnel and installed an access plate for my fuel filter. It is incredibly easy to check now. Remember, I just can't remove the top because of my throttle quadrant. I had 140 hours on it when I checked it and it was almost perfect. Just a couple little pieces of lint. I was expecting to find at least one piece of pro-seal but nothing. I will post some pictures once I get them uploaded tonight. Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wiring Diagram and/or Schematic Diagram of electrical system
From: "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net>
Date: Apr 26, 2007
Hello, would it be possible for some of you to send me your wiring diagrams as orientation. I do understand that I need to calculate the wire size and fuse based on the consumers and the resistance myself. I just want to see what others have done and to see if I missed something. Best Regards Michael -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109316#109316 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Hot Tunnels
From: "dmaib(at)mac.com" <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Date: Apr 26, 2007
I have not seen anything about hot tunnels for a long time now. I am curious to know if any -10 flying with the Sam James cowl (maybe just one flying so far?) has hot tunnel problems. How about anybody flying with the firewall insulated on the front side? This was such a huge issue just a few months ago and now is completely quiet. Did I miss out on the miracle cure? -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109323#109323 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 26, 2007
Subject: Re: Hot Tunnels
In a message dated 4/26/2007 7:53:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Tim(at)MyRV10.com writes: I insulated back to the fuel valve. That gives me a little more margin for warmth against that tunnel being warm enough to vaporize the fuel. But, I didn't do it because of a problem, just because it seemed prudent. Tim with the ambient air now on a warming cycle in your area do you think the relatively cool winter air may have aided in the cooling effect? Patrick ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: NY Times Article on slow down of flight training
Date: Apr 26, 2007
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/26/fashion/26pilot.html?pagewanted=1&_r= 1 &th&emc=th Robin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "BARBARA HADATH" <whadath(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Purchase of an RV 10 Kit
Date: Apr 26, 2007
Fellow Builders I am a new subscriber to the RV 10 list. I have built and am now flying a F1 Rocket from a parts kit. I have a wife and 2 children who have been enjoying the flying so much that they are now saying that I must start on a 4 seater. It looks like the RV 10 is the one for me to build. I have decided to go the QB route this time. It looks like the options are Electric trim, which I think may be a good idea for a side by side aircraft. I wonder about the external steps, due to drag. Anybody have input or experience on this? Map box. I would think this is a good idea and since I will go with a VFR panel I would think there must be lots of room on the panel. Fresh air vent? Any input here? Are there other options I should consider? Is anybody aware of a QB kit out there in need of a home? I hope I will be able to contribute to the list and I look forward to the project. I am located at CYKF in Kitchener, Ontario. Thanks. Wayne Hadath http://www.justplane works.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 2007
From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Purchase of an RV 10 Kit
You might be choosing the most significant option of all - a VFR '10. I've been lurking here for a year and it seems that everyone is building an IFR spaceship (including yours truly). If you were to build a VFR day cruiser you might have one of the fast built, nicest flying '10s around. The trick may be to avoid some of the options. Bill "loading up my QB wings with goodies" Watson (there are probably plenty of VFR '10s being built....) BARBARA HADATH wrote: > > Fellow Builders > > I am a new subscriber to the RV 10 list. I have built and am now > flying a F1 Rocket from a parts kit. I have a wife and 2 children who > have been enjoying the flying so much that they are now saying that I > must start on a 4 seater. It looks like the RV 10 is the one for me to > build. > > I have decided to go the QB route this time. It looks like the options > are Electric trim, which I think may be a good idea for a side by side > aircraft. > > I wonder about the external steps, due to drag. Anybody have input or > experience on this? > > Map box. I would think this is a good idea and since I will go with a > VFR panel I would think there must be lots of room on the panel. > > Fresh air vent? Any input here? > > Are there other options I should consider? > > Is anybody aware of a QB kit out there in need of a home? > > I hope I will be able to contribute to the list and I look forward to > the project. > > I am located at CYKF in Kitchener, Ontario. > > Thanks. > > Wayne Hadath > > http://www.justplane works.com/ > > > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 2007
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Purchase of an RV 10 Kit
Answers to your questions below: Larry Rosen RV-10 #356 <http://lrosen.nerv10.com> BARBARA HADATH wrote: > > Fellow Builders > > I am a new subscriber to the RV 10 list. I have built and am now > flying a F1 Rocket from a parts kit. I have a wife and 2 children who > have been enjoying the flying so much that they are now saying that I > must start on a 4 seater. It looks like the RV 10 is the one for me to > build. > > I have decided to go the QB route this time. It looks like the options > are Electric trim, which I think may be a good idea for a side by side > aircraft. > Electric elevator trim is standard. There is an option for aileron trim, and DIY options for rudder trim. There are no manual trim options > > I wonder about the external steps, due to drag. Anybody have input or > experience on this? > External steps are included with the kit. It would be difficult to climb up into the plane without the steps. > > Map box. I would think this is a good idea and since I will go with a > VFR panel I would think there must be lots of room on the panel. > With a VFR panel you could probably put in 2 map boxes. > > Fresh air vent? Any input here? > Standard are 2 vents up front and 2 vents for the rear passangers Accuracy Avionics <http://www.accuracyavionics.com/> has an overhead console that adds air vents. > > Are there other options I should consider? > Lots, for the tail kit they are limited to static ports and rudder control fairings. Just get started, stay on this list, check out the builders web sites and have fun building. If you could build a 4 (without pre punched skins, the 10 will be a breeze). > > Is anybody aware of a QB kit out there in need of a home? > > I hope I will be able to contribute to the list and I look forward to > the project. > > I am located at CYKF in Kitchener, Ontario. > > Thanks. > > Wayne Hadath > > http://www.justplane works.com/ > > > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted French" <ted_french(at)telus.net>
Subject: Poor idle on I0-540
Date: Apr 26, 2007
My I0-540 does not like to run at idle. Anything below about 800 RPM runs the risk of the engine stopping, which it has done a few times when taxiing or on run-up It is equipped with a Lasar ignition with the warning light to tell you if it is running on the mags alone. Temps seem OK and it runs well once the power is put to it. The idle screw is in as far as it will go. The engine feels a bit rough when slowed down to 800 RPM or so Anyone have any ideas.? Ted French C-FXCS RV-10 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 2007
From: <jhstarn(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Poor idle on I0-540
We had simular problems with the IO-540 in the HRII at first. (six years ago), we could not get the idle to "set" either way. Took the whole unit to a repair shop here in So.Calif. Whenever a major update is required they add a dash (-) number. We took it in as a -4 and got it back as as a -11. Made ALL differance in the world, no dying on taxi, no surge in flight, no fast idle & the idle adjustment worked as it should. Our 540 came with the FI unit from a ground looped Skybolt. Worth every penny, it was quite a few, invested. KABONG Do Not Archive HRII N561FS >From: Ted French <ted_french(at)telus.net> >Date: 2007/04/26 Thu PM 08:47:55 CDT >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: Poor idle on I0-540 > > >My I0-540 does not like to run at idle. Anything below about 800 RPM runs >the risk of the engine stopping, which it has done a few times when taxiing >or on run-up > >It is equipped with a Lasar ignition with the warning light to tell you if >it is running on the mags alone. Temps seem OK and it runs well once the >power is put to it. > >The idle screw is in as far as it will go. > >The engine feels a bit rough when slowed down to 800 RPM or so > >Anyone have any ideas.? > >Ted French C-FXCS >RV-10 Flying > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Flying the RV10 for the first time
Date: Apr 27, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Hey guys, I have spent the past day out in Oregon with Mike Seager and flying the factory 10. I now have 3 hours in type and 15 landings. I have two more days to fly with him and try and get my mind wrapped around this fast bird. I know many of you have 4/6/7/8 time, and the 10 is not the same, but all I can say is WOOHOO! Put the throttle in and it instantly leaps in the air, blink and we are passing through 2k ft. We flew North and trued out over 200MPH, did I say this plane is incredible?? 2.5 years and I am in the home stretch, and I can not wait to fly my own, and finally report my first flight. I know it sounds funny, but we chose to build the 10 without ever having been in one, and all of expectations have been met and exceeded. For those of you in the same boat as myself, 150 hrs in SPAM cans, I can not stress the value of transition training and spending the time necessary to get used to these planes. Things are happening so fast that it is difficult at first, but after several hours with Mike I am starting to feel that with a couple hundred more I might make an RV pilot. One thing that I find very funny is that I have heard about P-factor and the need for right rudder, and thought I knew about it, but the first time you put the throttle to 260 HP you quickly realize what you had no clue about!!! Get the transition training so you are ready. While I have been out here I have met a couple of the guys and toured Vans factory, too cool to say the least. But other than flying the 10, the most memorable part of the trip is the hospitality of Ed Hayden, he helped me around town, and took an afternoon to show me his project. What a plane, all the bell's and whistles and then some! I can not wait to reciprocate when he comes to town. It is the builder community that makes this so much fun and Ed is a pillar of the community making us feel welcome! THX Dan Lloyd N289DT RV10E Finally I can say finishing up!!! > Dan Lloyd Director of Information Technology > Werner Company > 93 Werner Road > Greenville, PA 16125 > > lloyddr(at)wernerco.com > 1-724-588-2000 *2408 work > 1-724-988-9230 cell > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wiring Diagram and/or Schematic Diagram of electrical system
From: "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net>
Date: Apr 27, 2007
Thanks you to all of you. I have now enough diagrams to go through. Take care Michael -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109518#109518 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Poor idle on I0-540
Date: Apr 27, 2007
The thing that comes to mind is a problem we just fixed on N416EC. The idle mixture was set WAY to rich. Check and see if the RPM comes up and it smoothens out if you spin the mixture cable out. If so, lean out the idle mixture on the fuel servo and you should be good to go. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted French Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 9:48 PM Subject: RV10-List: Poor idle on I0-540 My I0-540 does not like to run at idle. Anything below about 800 RPM runs the risk of the engine stopping, which it has done a few times when taxiing or on run-up It is equipped with a Lasar ignition with the warning light to tell you if it is running on the mags alone. Temps seem OK and it runs well once the power is put to it. The idle screw is in as far as it will go. The engine feels a bit rough when slowed down to 800 RPM or so Anyone have any ideas.? Ted French C-FXCS RV-10 Flying -- 12:19 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 2007
From: Niko <owl40188(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Aileron Trim Location
Has anyone mounted the aileron trim on to the right wing instead of the left? thanks Niko 40188 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 2007
From: <edrv(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Purchase of an RV 10 Kit
Larry, I have a 10 qb wing /fuse/ tail kit also --just finished my 8A, just thinking about not continueing tth 10, I have a 540 --it doesn't have to go with it-- call me if interested 479 629 1986 Ed 479 629 1986 Thanks ---- Larry Rosen he wrote: > > Answers to your questions below: > > Larry Rosen > RV-10 #356 > <http://lrosen.nerv10.com> > > BARBARA HADATH wrote: > > > > Fellow Builders > > > > I am a new subscriber to the RV 10 list. I have built and am now > > flying a F1 Rocket from a parts kit. I have a wife and 2 children who > > have been enjoying the flying so much that they are now saying that I > > must start on a 4 seater. It looks like the RV 10 is the one for me to > > build. > > > > I have decided to go the QB route this time. It looks like the options > > are Electric trim, which I think may be a good idea for a side by side > > aircraft. > > > Electric elevator trim is standard. There is an option for aileron > trim, and DIY options for rudder trim. There are no manual trim options > > > > I wonder about the external steps, due to drag. Anybody have input or > > experience on this? > > > External steps are included with the kit. It would be difficult to > climb up into the plane without the steps. > > > > Map box. I would think this is a good idea and since I will go with a > > VFR panel I would think there must be lots of room on the panel. > > > With a VFR panel you could probably put in 2 map boxes. > > > > Fresh air vent? Any input here? > > > Standard are 2 vents up front and 2 vents for the rear passangers > Accuracy Avionics <http://www.accuracyavionics.com/> has an overhead > console that adds air vents. > > > > Are there other options I should consider? > > > Lots, for the tail kit they are limited to static ports and rudder > control fairings. Just get started, stay on this list, check out the > builders web sites and have fun building. If you could build a 4 > (without pre punched skins, the 10 will be a breeze). > > > > Is anybody aware of a QB kit out there in need of a home? > > > > I hope I will be able to contribute to the list and I look forward to > > the project. > > > > I am located at CYKF in Kitchener, Ontario. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Wayne Hadath > > > > http://www.justplane works.com/ > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > * > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 2007
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Flying the RV10 for the first time
Awesome Dan, isn't that the most fun ever. Mike teaches you to fly the -10 like a tail dragger. Nose off the ground ASAP, don't even look at the airspeed, and let it fly itself off. This is typically not taught when flying spam cans. Budd Davidson one of the finest CFI's in the world teaches the same approach in the Pitts. You really learn what AOA achieves a smooth safe takeoff in a reasonable distance. I cannot tell you how happy you will be when you are sitting at the end of the runway in you new RV-10 and you push that throttle in and your not having to learn to fly the plane and watch all the engine instruments for problems. You know what stick force it takes to get the nose off. You know how much rudder it will take to keep it straight when you lift the nose off. Plus, going and flying with Mike is some of the cheapest flying you can do. Seems like it is around $130 an hour (plane + pilot)? To fly a 182 here in Utah the average rent is around $160 just for the plane. It is so beautiful to go flying around OR as well. Looking forward to the first flight post. Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 9:25:04 PM Subject: RV10-List: Flying the RV10 for the first time Hey guys, I have spent the past day out in Oregon with Mike Seager and flying the factory 10. I now have 3 hours in type and 15 landings. I have two more days to fly with him and try and get my mind wrapped around this fast bird. I know many of you have 4/6/7/8 time, and the 10 is not the same, but all I can say is WOOHOO! Put the throttle in and it instantly leaps in the air, blink and we are passing through 2k ft. We flew North and trued out over 200MPH, did I say this plane is incredible?? 2.5 years and I am in the home stretch, and I can not wait to fly my own, and finally report my first flight. I know it sounds funny, but we chose to build the 10 without ever having been in one, and all of expectations have been met and exceeded. For those of you in the same boat as myself, 150 hrs in SPAM cans, I can not stress the value of transition training and spending the time necessary to get used to these planes. Things are happening so fast that it is difficult at first, but after several hours with Mike I am starting to feel that with a couple hundred more I might make an RV pilot. One thing that I find very funny is that I have heard about P-factor and the need for right rudder, and thought I knew about it, but the first time you put the throttle to 260 HP you quickly realize what you had no clue about!!! Get the transition training so you are ready. While I have been out here I have met a couple of the guys and toured Vans factory, too cool to say the least. But other than flying the 10, the most memorable part of the trip is the hospitality of Ed Hayden, he helped me around town, and took an afternoon to show me his project. What a plane, all the bell's and whistles and then some! I can not wait to reciprocate when he comes to town. It is the builder community that makes this so much fun and Ed is a pillar of the community making us feel welcome! THX Dan Lloyd N289DT RV10E Finally I can say finishing up!!! Dan Lloyd Director of Information Technology Werner Company 93 Werner Road Greenville, PA 16125 lloyddr(at)wernerco.com 1-724-588-2000 *2408 work 1-724-988-9230 cell ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 2007
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: Flying the RV10 for the first time
Is Van's spec of 211mph top speed = Vne, or is there some higher number? The Ovation airframe is virtually identical to the Acclaim, which has a max cruise of 237kts, or 273mph. Vne is something above that. The Ovation 3 has 310hp engine and noticeably better climb and cruise than earlier versions with 280hp. Of course the -10 has many other advantages, as you noted, esp $$$$ & ease of entry. The current Mooneys have much bigger baggage area than the -10. Tim Olson wrote: > - > Then yesterday, I read a review in Flying Mag's recent issue where > they reviewed the Mooney Ovation3...their fast normally aspirated > plane. I was again left impressed not with the Ovation, but with > what we can do with our RV-10's. That Ovation was well over $400,000, > and didn't cruise much faster, and almost completely had inferior > performance specs to the -10 in most categories. Even the VNE was > within a Knot or 2 of the -10. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven Roberts" <swrpilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: They need an RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year...
Date: Apr 27, 2007
Flying the RV10 for the first timeOff topic, but check this site out... http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Nellis2006/Highlights/ind ex.html Steve Roberts Still lurking, but about to order the tail kit... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Apr 27, 2007
Subject: Transition Training
I am going to get Training from Mike Seager in 2 weeks and was curious w ho else was near the Vans facility besides Ed Hayden. If ED and the res t of the RV builders will be available on May 8-12 I would love to see y our project, ride in your plane or just have some great hanger talk. Al so, where would you recommend staying while doing the trainsition traini ng. Just email me offline or call anytime to let me know. Thanks, DEAN 40449 402-560-9755
I am going to get Training from Mike Seager in 2 weeks and was curious who else was near the Vans facility besides Ed Hayden. If ED and the rest of the RV builders will be available on May 8-12 I would love to see your project, ride in your plane or just have some gre at hanger talk. Also, where would you recommend staying while doin g the trainsition training.

Just email me offline or call anytime to let me know.

Thanks,

DEAN 40449

402-560-9755

________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net>
Subject: They need an RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year...
Date: Apr 27, 2007
And both Rick and I should have our RV-10s there, and if not I'm going to twist Russ Daves arm out of the socket to get his there. Bob K _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Roberts Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 9:36 AM Subject: RV10-List: They need an RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year... Off topic, but check this site out... http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Nellis2006/Highlights/index. html Steve Roberts Still lurking, but about to order the tail kit... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 2007
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Officially an RV Builder
Well it is 2 years and 5 days into my RV-10 build and this evening I officially became a RV builder. While drilling a #30 hole through the stainless FWF to mount a pass through, as my drill bit went through the stainless it slipped past the backing board and caught my finger. Fortunately it is only a slight gash. No stitches required. It's time to quit for the night, get a good night sleep and finish the final two holes in the morning. Be safe out there. -- Larry Rosen RV-10 #356 http://lrosen.nerv10.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 2007
From: "bruce breckenridge" <bbreckenridge(at)gmail.com>
Subject: RE: Officially an RV Builder
Drat! I haven't joined the club yet. Well, tomorrow starts another weekend at the hangar. No drilling planned, but I'll be using deck screws, a chop saw, and maybe a nail or two. Bruce 40018 Wing Stand ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 2007
From: "bruce breckenridge" <bbreckenridge(at)gmail.com>
Subject: RE: Transition Training
Dan; Becky and I will be out at the hangar between noon and 2pm. We always welcome guests. The more visitors, the greater my chances of actually taking til 2014 to finish the plane!! We have a hangar phone - feel free to use it: 503-263-0052 (hangar 52). Bruce 40018 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com>
Subject: They need an RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year...
Date: Apr 28, 2007
Bob, I'll plan on coming to the Nellis AFB show in my RV-10. Maybe I can hookup with Russ passing over Lubbock. Mark N410MR >From: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: RV10-List: They need an RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year... >Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:39:48 -0800 > >And both Rick and I should have our RV-10s there, and if not I'm going to >twist Russ Daves arm out of the socket to get his there. > > >Bob K > > > _____ > >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Roberts >Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 9:36 AM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: They need an RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year... > > >Off topic, but check this site out... > > >http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Nellis2006/Highlights/index. >html > > >Steve Roberts > >Still lurking, but about to order the tail kit... > > _________________________________________________________________ Dont quit your job Take Classes Online and Earn your Degree in 1 year. Start Today! http://www.classesusa.com/clickcount.cfm?id=866146&goto=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classesusa.com%2Ffeaturedschools%2Fonlinedegreesmp%2Fform-dyn1.html%3Fsplovr%3D866144 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: 2000 hour - progress report
A minor milestone occurred today - I logged my 2000th hour on the project. I remember asking the 'list' what the halfway point was when I had about 1050 hours logged. The answer I got back didn't make me happy, as it suggested that based on my progress, I was not yet at the halfway point. That meant I had at least that many more hours and then some to go. Well, I don't' know how many more 'to go' I've got and heaven knows I'm NOT the world fastest builder, But...... I've got a new appreciation for the 90% done and 90% to go saying. I had been judging my progress based on my rate of completing the Van's plans sections and then extrapolating to an ultimate completion date. Well I've pretty much completed the Van's plans sections, BUT I've got TONS more to do. I've got a Word doc with 3 1/2 pages of 'to-do's on it. I'm working those off, the problem is that I've been working on them for 6-8 weeks and while I've completed many of the items, the list grows at about the same rate as the checked off items. ?!?!? A word to the wise from someone who wishes he'd done differently: All the 'little things' that look/appear to be minor, and you tell yourself "Oh I'll get that at the end....." quickly (before you know it) add up to the 'other 90%'. And guess what else???? The reason you didn't do them at the time was because they weren't as much fun as building a new part and seeing the plane get bigger. Well....... After the plane is 'bigger' the 'little things' are still here ...... and ....... they're still not fun!!!!!!! Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer, but determined to get there ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 2000 hour - progress report
Date: Apr 29, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Hang in there Deems, you are getting close! After 10.6 hours and 68 landings logged, I can say this plane is worth it. It will be everything you wanted and more. Now I just need to get home and git'r'done too. I heard you were coming up to the dinner in a couple of weeks, make sure to get Randy and others to give you a ride for motivation. This is when you need it most to get you over the hump! Dan "starting the up hill push to finish" N289DT RV10E -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 12:09 AM Subject: RV10-List: 2000 hour - progress report A minor milestone occurred today - I logged my 2000th hour on the project. I remember asking the 'list' what the halfway point was when I had about 1050 hours logged. The answer I got back didn't make me happy, as it suggested that based on my progress, I was not yet at the halfway point. That meant I had at least that many more hours and then some to go. Well, I don't' know how many more 'to go' I've got and heaven knows I'm NOT the world fastest builder, But...... I've got a new appreciation for the 90% done and 90% to go saying. I had been judging my progress based on my rate of completing the Van's plans sections and then extrapolating to an ultimate completion date. Well I've pretty much completed the Van's plans sections, BUT I've got TONS more to do. I've got a Word doc with 3 1/2 pages of 'to-do's on it. I'm working those off, the problem is that I've been working on them for 6-8 weeks and while I've completed many of the items, the list grows at about the same rate as the checked off items. ?!?!? A word to the wise from someone who wishes he'd done differently: All the 'little things' that look/appear to be minor, and you tell yourself "Oh I'll get that at the end....." quickly (before you know it) add up to the 'other 90%'. And guess what else???? The reason you didn't do them at the time was because they weren't as much fun as building a new part and seeing the plane get bigger. Well....... After the plane is 'bigger' the 'little things' are still here ...... and ....... they're still not fun!!!!!!! Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer, but determined to get there ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: Transition Training
Date: Apr 29, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
THX for the offer, unfortunately I did not get done with Mike till after 4, yeah, real unfortunate that I got to fly down the coast and land at two small seaside airports. You guys have it rough up here with the mountains, oceans and the most gorgeous scenery I have ever scene, and that is saying allot because I grew up in Colorado, but it is a different view here. I will wait to write up the trip until I get home, but boy was it worth it. Dan N289DT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bruce breckenridge Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:46 AM Subject: RV10-List: RE: Transition Training Dan; Becky and I will be out at the hangar between noon and 2pm. We always welcome guests. The more visitors, the greater my chances of actually taking til 2014 to finish the plane!! We have a hangar phone - feel free to use it: 503-263-0052 (hangar 52). Bruce 40018 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: Transition Training
Date: Apr 29, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Don't forget to tell everyone about the constant RAIN! John Cox -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R. Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 9:40 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Transition Training THX for the offer, unfortunately I did not get done with Mike till after 4, yeah, real unfortunate that I got to fly down the coast and land at two small seaside airports. You guys have it rough up here with the mountains, oceans and the most gorgeous scenery I have ever scene, and that is saying allot because I grew up in Colorado, but it is a different view here. I will wait to write up the trip until I get home, but boy was it worth it. Dan N289DT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bruce breckenridge Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:46 AM Subject: RV10-List: RE: Transition Training Dan; Becky and I will be out at the hangar between noon and 2pm. We always welcome guests. The more visitors, the greater my chances of actually taking til 2014 to finish the plane!! We have a hangar phone - feel free to use it: 503-263-0052 (hangar 52). Bruce 40018 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2007
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Transition Training
Sure John, Just like Aridzona is nothing but scorching sand dunes, tumbleweeds and cacti. But I just happen to have some ocean front beach property if you want. 8^))) John Jessen wrote: > > It's a nice place to visit, but it gets rather tedious, with all the grey > skies and tons of rain. The other day the sun came out and traffic stopped. > Those of us who were born and raised in Oregon do, if fact, have webbed > feet. > > John (two more weeks to go to get back to the hanger) Jessen > #40328 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: 2000 hour - progress report
I have ever more appreciation for you guys that have full time jobs, families and still finish a plane in a year and a half! :-) And then there's guys like Dan Lloyd that do all of that and decide to add on and complete a Masters Degree in the midst of their build !!!!! Thanks for the encouragement. I was just 'finishing up' the Fuse (minus wing attach) @ 1100-1200 hrs. I've since added another 150-200hrs according to my construction log <http://deemsrv10.com/constructionlog.html> . The total hours through the fuse is a little skewed because of some of the 'mods' I did (center console, overhead console, also Sec 41 is where I logged most of my time planning/building/wiring my instrument panel during last summers heat). Tim, It was your comment about the windows that got me rethinking my estimates! I put off installing my windows until just recently so I'd have better access and less worry about damage, so I hope that benchmark isn't true any longer in my case. I think that if you were doing a straight slo-build with few/no mods that the end of the Fuse and beginning of Finish is about the halfway point. My best estimate is that I've got another 500hrs (+ / -) to go, so that would also correlate. Tim you also inspired me to paint the plane before flying, I realize there's different opinions about paint before or after, but I'm in the before camp. I also think that getting it painted will pump some fresh wind into the sails. Deems /'Determined'/ Davis # 406 http://deemsrv10.com/ > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2007
From: "ivo welch" <ivowel(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 04/27/07
I did fly an RV-9, and must say that that the RV-10 flies as easy as the RV-9. The only thing that is difficult for a cherokee pilot is the ground handling. the cherokee's bigger wheels, farther apart, and nosewheel steering do make it easier on pilots. having said this, it is not too difficult to learn how to ground-maneuver it. in the air, both the RV-9 and the RV-10 are incredibly benign aircrafts. the only "problem" is that they like to fly so much, a little thermal from below can make you gain 100' of altitude fairly easily. (the old cherokee was more like a tank that's dragged through the air.) I fly very rarely these days---I have a 2 year old son. So, I am still trying to sell my RV-10. (http://welch.econ.brown.edu/n325hp/). The FAA has not even upgraded my registration yet from the builder (Noel Simmons---does great work; highly recommended). The only reason why I can keep it sofar as a fallback is that, although it is practically a new plane for me everytime I get into the cockpit, it is so very benign to fly. I know that it is not a great situation in the long-run, though. /ivo welch ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Dynon and Lightspeed Ignition
Date: Apr 29, 2007
Can any builders who have connected their Lightspeed ignition computers to a Dynon tell me what connections were made to obtain tach info for the Dynon? Did you have to use a resistor? Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rtitsworth" <rtitsworth(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Advanced Flight System EFIS
Date: Apr 29, 2007
I have a friend (Tom) who asked the following question (below) on a different list. Any comments/input? At present I have purchased a Garmin 430 and a yellow tagged MX-20. I would like to know if anyone is flying with or considering the Advanced Flight Systems Model AF-3500 also with engine monitoring. I was also considering the GRT Spot model since I have an MX-20 already. Any comments would be appreciated. Tom Rooney 941-907-0032 rooney1961(at)yahoo.com Fwd by Rick Titsworth rtitsworth(at)mindspring.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Reining" <wreining(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Composites for the RV-10
Date: Apr 30, 2007
My son and I just got back from class in Watsonville this weekend. Dave Saylor and his staff at AirCrafters provided excellent training on all the RV-10 fiberglass parts, providing both classroom knowledge and lots of practical hands-on experience. There were two RV-10s under construction in the hangar (one was Dave's personal RV-10). The second -10's cabin top was cut to size, sanded and fitted during the weekend. Dave explained in detail how to trim and fit the doors, windshield, windows, wheel pants and fairings, and the wingtips and empennage fairings. It sure took the fear factor out of an area neither of us have had any experience with. All-in-all, it was a very worthwhile class. Plus, meeting all of our classmates, each of whom was also a -10 builder, was worth the price of admission in its own right. This class is highly recommended. Bill and Jon Reining 40514 - Finished the tailcone Friday, now on to the QB wings. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)suddenlink.net>
Subject: Re: They need an RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year...They need an
RV10 at Nellis AFB Next Year...
Date: Apr 30, 2007
Bob K. and Rick S. will have to twist my arm about as hard as they twisted it to get a flight in my RV-10 last year to get me to fly into Nellis AFB for the airshow. Russ Daves ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 2007
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: High Oil Temps
Need some advise. On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab UT for the day (about an hour flight). We hung out for the day, went to the car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and then headed home. We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we took off. Before starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off flew south over Moab, then down on the Colorado River and began climbing to the north. While climbing I noticed my oil temps at 220 F. I have never seen them that high and I was right over the airport so I landed and thought my ducting had fallen off. I took off the cowl, and everything looked perfect. Thought a bird or something else might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil cooler but it looked perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call late at night while he was watching a movie just so I could have a second head thinking about anything else I might have missed. I put the cowling back on and took off by myself and flew around. I really had to climb slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked normal. So the four of us loaded up and we were off. I typically climb around 100 to 105. On climb out the temps went to around 205 and maxed at 210. Once I was at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and then seemed to stabilize around 190. These still seem higher than I have had in the past. I am use to temps around 170 to 180. I typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has been in the winter. My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally did, only my oil temps have changed. This was the warmest weather I have flown in with 4 people but I was still climbing at 105 knots. Sure my climb rate may be lower but the cooling should be the same. All I can think of is the angle of attack with 4 people changes the cooling rate into the oil cooler. Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often? Where does your oil temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings around 19.5 and 2400? I will grab a few more test passengers and go do some more work before adding a larger oil cooler or cooling ducts in the side like others. Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: High Oil Temps
"Scott, I will be very interested in your progress on this issue. I live in Phoenix, and high temperatures is a fact of life. talking w/ fellows @ EAA chpt mtgs. reveals that the RV6,7,8" guys all buy the biggest and most efficient oil cooler they can. I was told of one that was 20% more efficient than the one that Van's ships, I don't recall it's name/number but could find out if you need the info. Some have had success mounting the oil cooler directly behind the #4 cyl on the baffling as opposed to the firewall. I doubt there's room enough on the -10 for this to work. Here's a quote from my Lycoming Operators Manual O-540,IO-540 Series: Section 3 page 3-9 /" Oil temperature: The maximum permissible oil temperature is 245 deg F (118C). for maximum engine life, desired oil temperature should be maintained between 165 deg F (73.8C) and 200F (93.3C) in level flight cruise conditions ". Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ / Scott Schmidt wrote: > Need some advise. > * > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: RV10 Center cabin top brace.
Date: Apr 30, 2007
I have been trimming the windows and working on the cabin top. By the way, an electric high speed grinder with #100 grit works well for finalizing the shape on the windows. It heats up the plexiglass and takes it away all at the same time. Leave the plastic covering on. Outside air temps, as always need to be warm. In section 43 the manual asks you to make aluminum spacers that will house the four screws that through bolt the center brace to the cabin top. I am not one that will normally question the plans, but the aluminum tubes(dowels) I imagine will be bonded into the cabin top and and keep the center brace from pulling out. Being that there are four, it should be fairly strong. What I question however if that there is only so many layers of fiberglass on the outside of the cabin top and so many on the inside. Between there is the usual foam sandwich. These aluminum dowels will get there retension my bonding to both the inside and outside layer of glass, not the foam. The screw head is really not any large in diameter that the O.D. of the aluminum dowel, so it will not provide any retension. Basically, it seems like the cabin top fabricator should have place a hardpoint(Hardwood) in this area instead of the foam or we should be placing a steel plate on the outside to keep these dowels from pulling through. Maybe because there are four it is not a problem, but seeing that they are all in a one inch square spot, my mind thinks it should be made better. John G. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 2007
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: High Oil Temps
I have the same interest in this as Deems does. At OSH last year John Cox in a very fatherly and convicted manner told me I would have to deal with this problem being located in the Southwest, Las Vegas to be exact and similar if not a bit cooler than Deems in Phoenix. John reminded me that the RV-10 was designed and tested in Oregon, in obviously cooler temps. Deems has the James cowl so it will be interesting to see his performance in the cooling department. I have the stock Van's supplied cooler which will be changed if there is a better model out there. When Russ Daves was out here last year Bob Kaufmann, John Erickson and myself were lucky to get some -10 stick time. Russ asked John at one point to lower the nose to keep the temps down on a few of the touch and goes, I didn't do any take offs or landings but provided the ballast in the back seat. Hopefully I will feel better (worked the night shift then off to the airport early) on his next trip to get some worthwhile stick time short of flying us to and from the practice area and a few steep turns. Rick S. 40185 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com>
Subject: High Oil Temps
Date: Apr 30, 2007
Scott, Flew to Baja recently with two passengers and about 60 pounds of bags. OAT's were well into the 70's and lower 80's on climb outs. On climb out (1,000+ fpm) oil temp would climb to 205. It came down to 185 as soon as I lowered the nose once reaching cruising altitude. I generally cruise at 65% - 70% of power for a reference. On hot days (75+) before I added the louvers on the bottom cowl the oil temp was in the 210-212 range in cruise and 220+ when climbing. With the louvers I'm seeing 185. Even with the louvers I have to reduce power and climb angle on hot hot days to keep the oil temp below 200. Before adding the louvers my cowl was extremely hot to the touch and now its just warm. I think having a larger opening in the bottom of the cowl for the heat to exit helped lower the oil temp. Bracing for when it really gets hot here in Texas. Mark (N410MR) >From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: RV-10 List >Subject: RV10-List: High Oil Temps >Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT) > >Need some advise. On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab UT >for the day (about an hour flight). We hung out for the day, went to the >car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and then headed >home. >We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we took off. > Before starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off flew south >over Moab, then down on the Colorado River and began climbing to the north. > While climbing I noticed my oil temps at 220 F. I have never seen them >that high and I was right over the airport so I landed and thought my >ducting had fallen off. >I took off the cowl, and everything looked perfect. Thought a bird or >something else might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil cooler >but it looked perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call late at night >while he was watching a movie just so I could have a second head thinking >about anything else I might have missed. >I put the cowling back on and took off by myself and flew around. I really >had to climb slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked normal. So the >four of us loaded up and we were off. I typically climb around 100 to 105. > On climb out the temps went to around 205 and maxed at 210. Once I was >at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and then seemed to stabilize around 190. >These still seem higher than I have had in the past. I am use to temps >around 170 to 180. >I typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has been in the >winter. My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally did, only my oil >temps have changed. This was the warmest weather I have flown in with 4 >people but I was still climbing at 105 knots. Sure my climb rate may be >lower but the cooling should be the same. All I can think of is the angle >of attack with 4 people changes the cooling rate into the oil cooler. > >Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often? Where does your oil >temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings around 19.5 and >2400? >I will grab a few more test passengers and go do some more work before >adding a larger oil cooler or cooling ducts in the side like others. > >Scott Schmidt >scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 2007
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV10 Center cabin top brace.
John, When I drilled mine there appears to be some sort of filler material at the attach point. The shavings from the drill bit looked like wood...not sure if it's really wood but it is for sure filled with something solid, at least on mine. Make sure you drill the holes undersized enough to hold the bushings or you will have fun countersinking the on top. I had to set mine with epoxy to allow the countersink to cut instead of rotate the bushing...the measurment called out in the plans cracks me up...I think it's to the 64th of an inch and I had to trim at least 3/32 maybe a little more off to make them flush with the cabin inside and out. FWIW, I used my mic to measure and verify the correct length and these were the most exact bushings for the kit I made to date, and the first ones I ever had to trim material from :) Rick S. 40185 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven Roberts" <swrpilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Traffic at FL60...
Date: Apr 30, 2007
Off topic again but this is just too cool... Global Hawk A pic of the Global Hawk UAV that returned from Iraq on Monday under its own power. (Iraq to Edwards AFB in CA) - Not transported via C5 or C17. Notice the mission paintings on the fuselage. It's actually over 250 missions. That's a long way for a remotely-piloted aircraft. Think of the technology (and the required quality of the data link to fly it remotely). Not only that but the pilot controlled it from a nice warm control panel at Edwards AFB. It has really long legs - - -it can stay up for almost 2 days at altitudes above 60k. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: High Oil Temps
Date: Apr 30, 2007
From: pilotdds(at)aol.com
My temps ran about 175 in the winter.I became alarmed when an oat of 85 and a fully loaded airplane yielded cruise oil temps of 207.I installed the oil cooler from airflow systems and saw an 8 degree drop as well as much quicker cooling when leveling out for cruise.I did accurate side by side testing and saw a noteworthy improvment.It frequently excedes 100 here in the summer.Intallation is simple. -----Original Message----- From: scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com Sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:36 AM Subject: RV10-List: High Oil Temps Need some advise. On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab UT for the day (about an hour flight). We hung out for the day, went to the car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and then headed home. We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we took off. Before starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off flew south over Moab, then down on the Colorado River and began climbing to the north. While climbing I noticed my oil temps at 220 F. I have never seen them that high and I was right over the airport so I landed and thought my ducting had fallen off. I took off the cowl, and everything looked perfect. Thought a bird or something else might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil cooler but it looked perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call late at night while he was watching a movie just so I could have a second head thinking about anything else I might have missed. I put the cowling back on and took off by myself and flew around. I really had to climb slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked normal. So the four of us loaded up and we were off. I typically climb around 100 to 105. On climb out the temps went to around 205 and maxed at 210. Once I was at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and then seemed to stabilize around 190. These still seem higher than I have had in the past. I am use to temps around 170 to 180. I typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has been in the winter. My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally did, only my oil temps have changed. This was the warmest weather I have flown in with 4 people but I was still climbing at 105 knots. Sure my climb rate may be lower but the cooling should be the same. All I can think of is the angle of attack with 4 people changes the cooling rate into the oil cooler. Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often? Where does your oil temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings around 19.5 and 2400? I will grab a few more test passengers and go do some more work before adding a larger oil cooler or cooling ducts in the side like others. Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 2007
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: High Oil Temps
Mark, do you have any pictures of the louvers you can send me? If any of you can think about the name of the more efficient oil cooler I would be interested. It was not that warm out on Saturday and I wasn't too concerned with 220, it was just much different than I have previously seen. I can only imagine what would happen here in Utah when temps get to 90+. I will have add a water injection unit for the oil cooler like the Reno racers have. I would like to have a system where I rarely see above 200F. Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Mark Ritter <mritter509(at)msn.com> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:57:46 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: High Oil Temps Scott, Flew to Baja recently with two passengers and about 60 pounds of bags. OAT's were well into the 70's and lower 80's on climb outs. On climb out (1,000+ fpm) oil temp would climb to 205. It came down to 185 as soon as I lowered the nose once reaching cruising altitude. I generally cruise at 65% - 70% of power for a reference. On hot days (75+) before I added the louvers on the bottom cowl the oil temp was in the 210-212 range in cruise and 220+ when climbing. With the louvers I'm seeing 185. Even with the louvers I have to reduce power and climb angle on hot hot days to keep the oil temp below 200. Before adding the louvers my cowl was extremely hot to the touch and now its just warm. I think having a larger opening in the bottom of the cowl for the heat to exit helped lower the oil temp. Bracing for when it really gets hot here in Texas. Mark (N410MR) >From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: RV-10 List >Subject: RV10-List: High Oil Temps >Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT) > >Need some advise. On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab UT >for the day (about an hour flight). We hung out for the day, went to the >car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and then headed >home. >We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we took off. > Before starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off flew south >over Moab, then down on the Colorado River and began climbing to the north. > While climbing I noticed my oil temps at 220 F. I have never seen them >that high and I was right over the airport so I landed and thought my >ducting had fallen off. >I took off the cowl, and everything looked perfect. Thought a bird or >something else might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil cooler >but it looked perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call late at night >while he was watching a movie just so I could have a second head thinking >about anything else I might have missed. >I put the cowling back on and took off by myself and flew around. I really >had to climb slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked normal. So the >four of us loaded up and we were off. I typically climb around 100 to 105. > On climb out the temps went to around 205 and maxed at 210. Once I was >at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and then seemed to stabilize around 190. >These still seem higher than I have had in the past. I am use to temps >around 170 to 180. >I typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has been in the >winter. My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally did, only my oil >temps have changed. This was the warmest weather I have flown in with 4 >people but I was still climbing at 105 knots. Sure my climb rate may be >lower but the cooling should be the same. All I can think of is the angle >of attack with 4 people changes the cooling rate into the oil cooler. > >Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often? Where does your oil >temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings around 19.5 and >2400? >I will grab a few more test passengers and go do some more work before >adding a larger oil cooler or cooling ducts in the side like others. > >Scott Schmidt >scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV10 Center cabin top brace.
Date: Apr 30, 2007
You can also just clean out the foam and inject a mixture (resin, cabosil and chopped fibers). Be sure and tape the bottoms of the holes and you will get a nice solid hard point without aluminum spacers. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:40 AM Subject: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace. I have been trimming the windows and working on the cabin top. By the way, an electric high speed grinder with #100 grit works well for finalizing the shape on the windows. It heats up the plexiglass and takes it away all at the same time. Leave the plastic covering on. Outside air temps, as always need to be warm. In section 43 the manual asks you to make aluminum spacers that will house the four screws that through bolt the center brace to the cabin top. I am not one that will normally question the plans, but the aluminum tubes(dowels) I imagine will be bonded into the cabin top and and keep the center brace from pulling out. Being that there are four, it should be fairly strong. What I question however if that there is only so many layers of fiberglass on the outside of the cabin top and so many on the inside. Between there is the usual foam sandwich. These aluminum dowels will get there retension my bonding to both the inside and outside layer of glass, not the foam. The screw head is really not any large in diameter that the O.D. of the aluminum dowel, so it will not provide any retension. Basically, it seems like the cabin top fabricator should have place a hardpoint(Hardwood) in this area instead of the foam or we should be placing a steel plate on the outside to keep these dowels from pulling through. Maybe because there are four it is not a problem, but seeing that they are all in a one inch square spot, my mind thinks it should be made better. John G. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 2007
From: Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com>
Subject: Re: Composites for the RV-10
Ditto from me on everything said so far. I learned a lot and had a ton of fun. I have to give the highest praise to Dave and everyone at Aircrafters for the success of the seminar. I thought everything was well organized and had a good balance between class discussion, q&a, and hands-on work. I was super impressed with the facility - my first words were, "This beats the heck out of my basement!" My take aways were: 1. Although I now probably have just as many new questions, as questions answered over the weekend (typical of me when learning anything new), I am actually looking forward to working on my first composite parts. That alone made it worthwhile. It is amazing what hard and tough things you can make with some soft materials like fiberglass, lighter than air micro ballons, cotton flox and some pink goo mixed with white goo (ie epoxy resin and hardener). 2. I now have a better idea of what is possible with composites. This is going to raise the bar on composite parts on my plane (that's the hope, anyway) and the way I see other planes, too. Multiply that by the other builders in the class, and you've got an even better looking and more slippery fleet! 3. I got to meet my largest group of RV-10 builders, yet. I have seen it said here before, but i can now confirm that the the -10 group truly is special. ;) 4. Dave must have dalai-lama-like tolerance. I can't imagine anyone answering more questions and having to endure so many grubby hands touching his "mistress" all over all weekend long. ;) Anyway, I look forward to seeing that mistress flying later this year! As a part-time builder doing this as a hobby, it was great having such a resource, with 300 or so builder assists under their belt and doing this for a living, to ask tons of questions to. Thanks again and I highly recommend it if there is a future seminar! Jae #40533 Jeff Carpenter wrote: > I'll second that... > ** > ** Jeff Carpenter wrote: > I'll second that... > ** > ** ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: RV10 Center cabin top brace.
Date: Apr 30, 2007
Again, the idea is to have as much of the lamination(s) covering over the hardpoint. It needs to really be inside the lamination, not cut into it. Your suggestion would be 50% correct if you didn't drill throught the outside lamination. I don't know a way to remove a large enough block of foam through four holes without the use of solvents which will effect the integrity of the surrounding foam. When I drilled my four holes the drill absolutely popped into foam, not wood, unless it was balsa. Did others really find wood???? I might have something missing. Maybe a call to Van's is in order. John >From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace. >Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:49:37 -0700 > > >You can also just clean out the foam and inject a mixture (resin, cabosil >and chopped fibers). Be sure and tape the bottoms of the holes and you will >get a nice solid hard point without aluminum spacers. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez >Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:40 AM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace. > > >I have been trimming the windows and working on the cabin top. By the way, >an electric high speed grinder with #100 grit works well for finalizing the >shape on the windows. It heats up the plexiglass and takes it away all at >the same time. Leave the plastic covering on. Outside air temps, as always >need to be warm. > >In section 43 the manual asks you to make aluminum spacers that will house >the four screws that through bolt the center brace to the cabin top. I am >not one that will normally question the plans, but the aluminum >tubes(dowels) I imagine will be bonded into the cabin top and and keep the >center brace from pulling out. Being that there are four, it should be >fairly strong. > >What I question however if that there is only so many layers of fiberglass >on the outside of the cabin top and so many on the inside. Between there is >the usual foam sandwich. These aluminum dowels will get there retension my >bonding to both the inside and outside layer of glass, not the foam. The >screw head is really not any large in diameter that the O.D. of the >aluminum > >dowel, so it will not provide any retension. > >Basically, it seems like the cabin top fabricator should have place a >hardpoint(Hardwood) in this area instead of the foam or we should be >placing > >a steel plate on the outside to keep these dowels from pulling through. >Maybe because there are four it is not a problem, but seeing that they are >all in a one inch square spot, my mind thinks it should be made better. > >John G. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: High Oil Temps
Date: Apr 30, 2007
From: "Bobby J. Hughes" <bhughes(at)qnsi.net>
Is there any possibility of even the smallest air leak on the pressurized side of the oil cooler? If so some of the air will take the path of least resistance and not pass through the oil cooler core. This lowers the pressure differential between the cooler input and discharge. The box between the firewall and oil cooler face needs to be air tight. Bobby 40116 (reading too much about liquid cooled engines over the last 3 years) ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 1:53 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: High Oil Temps Mark, do you have any pictures of the louvers you can send me? If any of you can think about the name of the more efficient oil cooler I would be interested. It was not that warm out on Saturday and I wasn't too concerned with 220, it was just much different than I have previously seen. I can only imagine what would happen here in Utah when temps get to 90+. I will have add a water injection unit for the oil cooler like the Reno racers have. I would like to have a system where I rarely see above 200F. Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Mark Ritter <mritter509(at)msn.com> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:57:46 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: High Oil Temps Scott, Flew to Baja recently with two passengers and about 60 pounds of bags. OAT's were well into the 70's and lower 80's on climb outs. On climb out (1,000+ fpm) oil temp would climb to 205. It came down to 185 as soon as I lowered the nose once reaching cruising altitude. I generally cruise at 65% - 70% of power for a reference. On hot days (75+) before I added the louvers on the bottom cowl the oil temp was in the 210-212 range in cruise and 220+ when climbing. With the louvers I'm seeing 185. Even with the louvers I have to reduce power and climb angle on hot hot days to keep the oil temp below 200. Before adding the louvers my cowl was extremely hot to the touch and now its just warm. I think having a larger opening in the bottom of the cowl for the heat to exit helped lower the oil temp. Bracing for when it really gets hot here in Texas. Mark (N410MR) >From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: RV-10 List >Subject: RV10-List: High Oil Temps >Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT) > >Need some advise. On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab UT >for the day (about an hour flight). We hung out for the day, went to the >car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and then headed >home. >We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we took off. > Before starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off flew south >over Moab, then down on the Colorado River and began climbing to the north. > While climbing I noticed my oil temps at 220 F. I have never seen them >that high and I was right over the airport so I landed and thought my >ducting had fallen off. >I took off the cowl, and everything looked perfect. Thought a bird or >something else might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil cooler >but it looked perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call late at night >while he was watching a movie just so I could have a second head thinking >about anything else I might have missed. >I put the cowling back on and took off by myself and flew around. I really >had to climb slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked normal. So the >four of us loaded up and we were off. I typically climb around 100 to 105. > On climb out the temps went to around 205 and maxed at 210. Once I was >at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and then seemed to stabilize around 190. >These still seem higher than I have had in the past. I am use to temps >around 170 to 180. >I typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has been in the >winter. My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally did, only my oil >temps have changed. This was the warmest weather I have flown in with 4 >people but I was still climbing at 105 knots. Sure my climb rate may be >lower but the cooling should be the same. All I can think of is the angle >of attack with 4 people changes the cooling rate into the oil cooler. > >Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often? Where does your oil >temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings around 19.5 and >2400? >I will grab a few more test passengers and go do some more work before >adding a larger oil cooler or ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: High Oil Temps
Date: Apr 30, 2007
Scott, I bought mine from Alex DeDominicis (972) 775-1896. He has pictures on his web site. There are four RV's at 50R (Central Texas) that have the louvers installed including Keith Uhls RV-7 who I think you have met. We all swear by them. Folks that have installed them are seeing their oil temp going down by 20-25 degrees (down to 185 degree range in my RV-10) allowing for faster climbs without having to level off to cool things down (except on really really hot days). Getting oil temp too cold is not a problem for me. If it gets that cold I start whinning about where is Gore's global warming, grab an electric blanket and get in the fetal position and don't go outside until it warms up to at least 60. I'll take some pictures tomorrow if I get to the a/p. Once on, you can't see them except when cleaning the dirty side of the airplane. Hope all is well. Mark N410MR >From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: High Oil Temps >Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:53:01 -0700 (PDT) > >Mark, do you have any pictures of the louvers you can send me? > >If any of you can think about the name of the more efficient oil cooler I >would be interested. It was not that warm out on Saturday and I wasn't too >concerned with 220, it was just much different than I have previously seen. >I can only imagine what would happen here in Utah when temps get to 90+. I >will have add a water injection unit for the oil cooler like the Reno >racers have. >I would like to have a system where I rarely see above 200F. > >Scott Schmidt >scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com > > >----- Original Message ---- >From: Mark Ritter <mritter509(at)msn.com> >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:57:46 AM >Subject: RE: RV10-List: High Oil Temps > > >Scott, > >Flew to Baja recently with two passengers and about 60 pounds of bags. >OAT's were well into the 70's and lower 80's on climb outs. On climb out >(1,000+ fpm) oil temp would climb to 205. It came down to 185 as soon as I >lowered the nose once reaching cruising altitude. > >I generally cruise at 65% - 70% of power for a reference. On hot days >(75+) >before I added the louvers on the bottom cowl the oil temp was in the >210-212 range in cruise and 220+ when climbing. With the louvers I'm >seeing >185. Even with the louvers I have to reduce power and climb angle on hot >hot days to keep the oil temp below 200. Before adding the louvers my cowl >was extremely hot to the touch and now its just warm. I think having a >larger opening in the bottom of the cowl for the heat to exit helped lower >the oil temp. > >Bracing for when it really gets hot here in Texas. > >Mark (N410MR) > > > >From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com> > >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > >To: RV-10 List > >Subject: RV10-List: High Oil Temps > >Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT) > > > >Need some advise. On Saturday I loaded up the plane and went to Moab UT > >for the day (about an hour flight). We hung out for the day, went to the > >car show down there, rented a Jeep and did a couple trials and then >headed > >home. > >We left around 8:00pm. The outside air temp was around 74 when we took >off. > > Before starting my engine the oil temp was 101 F. I took off flew south > >over Moab, then down on the Colorado River and began climbing to the >north. > > While climbing I noticed my oil temps at 220 F. I have never seen them > >that high and I was right over the airport so I landed and thought my > >ducting had fallen off. > >I took off the cowl, and everything looked perfect. Thought a bird or > >something else might have gone down the ducting and covered the oil >cooler > >but it looked perfect when I checked that. Tim took my call late at night > >while he was watching a movie just so I could have a second head thinking > >about anything else I might have missed. > >I put the cowling back on and took off by myself and flew around. I >really > >had to climb slow to get it to 200 F but everything looked normal. So >the > >four of us loaded up and we were off. I typically climb around 100 to >105. > > On climb out the temps went to around 205 and maxed at 210. Once I was > >at 9500 they went to 195 to 200 and then seemed to stabilize around 190. > >These still seem higher than I have had in the past. I am use to temps > >around 170 to 180. > >I typically just fly with my wife and I and most the flying has been in >the > >winter. My CHT's and EGT's look the same as they normally did, only my >oil > >temps have changed. This was the warmest weather I have flown in with 4 > >people but I was still climbing at 105 knots. Sure my climb rate may be > >lower but the cooling should be the same. All I can think of is the >angle > >of attack with 4 people changes the cooling rate into the oil cooler. > > > >Do many of you in the south go above 200 F very often? Where does your >oil > >temp run with 4 people with an OAT of 70 and power settings around 19.5 >and > >2400? > >I will grab a few more test passengers and go do some more work before > >adding a larger oil cooler or cooling ducts in the side like others. > > > >Scott Schmidt > >scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com > >_________________________________________________________________ >Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. >http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01 > _________________________________________________________________ Dont quit your job Take Classes Online and Earn your Degree in 1 year. Start Today! http://www.classesusa.com/clickcount.cfm?id=866146&goto=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classesusa.com%2Ffeaturedschools%2Fonlinedegreesmp%2Fform-dyn1.html%3Fsplovr%3D866144 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GenGrumpy(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 30, 2007
Subject: Crossbow AHRS
Just a data point for those of us with the Crossbow AHRS. Mike Smith from Crossbow flew out to my place in TN several weeks ago to personally deliver and help install the revised AHRS, active GPS antenna and new cable from the AHRS to the antenna. Talk about customer service! I had experienced one instance of erratic behavior after the previously announced hardware fix from late last year, and my unit had been back to Crossbow for the upgrade. Crossbow believes that they have finally found and fixed the isolated instances where the unit appeared to experience unreliable GPS signals, which ultimately impacted the attitude presentation on the Chelton. It was tied to GPS processing rates from the GPS unit (not made by Crossbow, but built into the unit as we get them form Crossbow). So it was not related to the previous hardware issues they had over a year ago. I now have about 6 flights on the revised hardware, including two flights with fairly aggressive maneuvering. At this point, I can report to all that the fixes appear to be working as advertised. Grumpy N184JM ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 2007
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: High Oil Temps
I used to think my Mooney ran 220 based on factory crappy gage. Put in UBG16 and found I run 195-200 most of the time and can keep it under 210 without much trouble. I consider 210 where I need to take action to reduce temps. KM KCHD Deems Davis wrote: > > "Scott, I will be very interested in your progress on this issue. I > live in Phoenix, and high temperatures is a fact of life. talking w/ > fellows @ EAA chpt mtgs. reveals that the RV6,7,8" guys all buy the > biggest and most efficient oil cooler they can. I was told of one that > was 20% more efficient than the one that Van's ships, I don't recall > it's name/number but could find out if you need the info. Some have > had success mounting the oil cooler directly behind the #4 cyl on the > baffling as opposed to the firewall. I doubt there's room enough on > the -10 for this to work. > > Here's a quote from my Lycoming Operators Manual O-540,IO-540 Series: > Section 3 page 3-9 /" Oil temperature: The maximum permissible oil > temperature is 245 deg F (118C). for maximum engine life, desired oil > temperature should be maintained between 165 deg F (73.8C) and 200F > (93.3C) in level flight cruise conditions ". > > Deems Davis # 406 > Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) > http://deemsrv10.com/ > / > > > Scott Schmidt wrote: >> Need some advise. * >> * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2007
From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net>
Subject: Re: RV10 Center cabin top brace.
Hello John, on the GlaStar which has a fibreglass shell over a steel cage we did have plenty of hard points (64) to make. How was it done, first we had to drill a #10 hole with the tabs as guide trough both layers of the laminate. Next we did bent a wire (0.050) in an L-shape by 3/8" with that L shape wire it was possible to ream all the foam out of the space between inner and outer laminate, a shop vacuum should get all the particles out. A mixture of Q-cell and epoxy then was pushed into that void (covered on one side with a tape) do that slowly to fill it in order to get all air out or drill another 1/16" vent hole in about half way of the hole. that leaves you at the end with a 3/4 inch hard point. Hope it helps, I could otherwise scan you the GlaStar Manual pages. br Werner John Gonzalez wrote: > > Again, the idea is to have as much of the lamination(s) covering over > the hardpoint. It needs to really be inside the lamination, not cut > into it. > > Your suggestion would be 50% correct if you didn't drill throught the > outside lamination. > > I don't know a way to remove a large enough block of foam through four > holes without the use of solvents which will effect the integrity of > the surrounding foam. > > When I drilled my four holes the drill absolutely popped into foam, > not wood, unless it was balsa. > > Did others really find wood???? I might have something missing. Maybe > a call to Van's is in order. > > John > > >> From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> >> Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> To: >> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace. >> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:49:37 -0700 >> >> >> You can also just clean out the foam and inject a mixture (resin, >> cabosil >> and chopped fibers). Be sure and tape the bottoms of the holes and >> you will >> get a nice solid hard point without aluminum spacers. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez >> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:40 AM >> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace. >> >> >> >> I have been trimming the windows and working on the cabin top. By the >> way, >> an electric high speed grinder with #100 grit works well for >> finalizing the >> shape on the windows. It heats up the plexiglass and takes it away >> all at >> the same time. Leave the plastic covering on. Outside air temps, as >> always >> need to be warm. >> >> In section 43 the manual asks you to make aluminum spacers that will >> house >> the four screws that through bolt the center brace to the cabin top. >> I am >> not one that will normally question the plans, but the aluminum >> tubes(dowels) I imagine will be bonded into the cabin top and and >> keep the >> center brace from pulling out. Being that there are four, it should be >> fairly strong. >> >> What I question however if that there is only so many layers of >> fiberglass >> on the outside of the cabin top and so many on the inside. Between >> there is >> the usual foam sandwich. These aluminum dowels will get there >> retension my >> bonding to both the inside and outside layer of glass, not the foam. The >> screw head is really not any large in diameter that the O.D. of the >> aluminum >> >> dowel, so it will not provide any retension. >> >> Basically, it seems like the cabin top fabricator should have place a >> hardpoint(Hardwood) in this area instead of the foam or we should be >> placing >> >> a steel plate on the outside to keep these dowels from pulling through. >> Maybe because there are four it is not a problem, but seeing that >> they are >> all in a one inch square spot, my mind thinks it should be made better. >> >> John G. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2007
From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net>
Subject: Re: RV10 Center cabin top brace.
Forgot, use a syringe to fill the void Werner Schneider wrote: > > Hello John, > > on the GlaStar which has a fibreglass shell over a steel cage we did > have plenty of hard points (64) to make. How was it done, first we had > to drill a #10 hole with the tabs as guide trough both layers of the > laminate. Next we did bent a wire (0.050) in an L-shape by 3/8" with > that L shape wire it was possible to ream all the foam out of the > space between inner and outer laminate, a shop vacuum should get all > the particles out. A mixture of Q-cell and epoxy then was pushed into > that void (covered on one side with a tape) do that slowly to fill it > in order to get all air out or drill another 1/16" vent hole in about > half way of the hole. that leaves you at the end with a 3/4 inch hard > point. > > Hope it helps, I could otherwise scan you the GlaStar Manual pages. > > br Werner > > John Gonzalez wrote: >> >> >> Again, the idea is to have as much of the lamination(s) covering over >> the hardpoint. It needs to really be inside the lamination, not cut >> into it. >> >> Your suggestion would be 50% correct if you didn't drill throught the >> outside lamination. >> >> I don't know a way to remove a large enough block of foam through >> four holes without the use of solvents which will effect the >> integrity of the surrounding foam. >> >> When I drilled my four holes the drill absolutely popped into foam, >> not wood, unless it was balsa. >> >> Did others really find wood???? I might have something missing. Maybe >> a call to Van's is in order. >> >> John >> >> >>> From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> >>> Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>> To: >>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace. >>> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:49:37 -0700 >>> >>> >>> You can also just clean out the foam and inject a mixture (resin, >>> cabosil >>> and chopped fibers). Be sure and tape the bottoms of the holes and >>> you will >>> get a nice solid hard point without aluminum spacers. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John >>> Gonzalez >>> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:40 AM >>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>> Subject: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace. >>> >>> >>> >>> I have been trimming the windows and working on the cabin top. By >>> the way, >>> an electric high speed grinder with #100 grit works well for >>> finalizing the >>> shape on the windows. It heats up the plexiglass and takes it away >>> all at >>> the same time. Leave the plastic covering on. Outside air temps, as >>> always >>> need to be warm. >>> >>> In section 43 the manual asks you to make aluminum spacers that will >>> house >>> the four screws that through bolt the center brace to the cabin top. >>> I am >>> not one that will normally question the plans, but the aluminum >>> tubes(dowels) I imagine will be bonded into the cabin top and and >>> keep the >>> center brace from pulling out. Being that there are four, it should be >>> fairly strong. >>> >>> What I question however if that there is only so many layers of >>> fiberglass >>> on the outside of the cabin top and so many on the inside. Between >>> there is >>> the usual foam sandwich. These aluminum dowels will get there >>> retension my >>> bonding to both the inside and outside layer of glass, not the foam. >>> The >>> screw head is really not any large in diameter that the O.D. of the >>> aluminum >>> >>> dowel, so it will not provide any retension. >>> >>> Basically, it seems like the cabin top fabricator should have place a >>> hardpoint(Hardwood) in this area instead of the foam or we should be >>> placing >>> >>> a steel plate on the outside to keep these dowels from pulling through. >>> Maybe because there are four it is not a problem, but seeing that >>> they are >>> all in a one inch square spot, my mind thinks it should be made better. >>> >>> John G. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: RV10 Center cabin top brace.
Date: May 01, 2007
Now, why did I not think about that L-shaped wire and a drill. That is pretty clever. Thanks for the information. JOhn >From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace. >Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 10:53:38 +0200 > > >Hello John, > >on the GlaStar which has a fibreglass shell over a steel cage we did have >plenty of hard points (64) to make. How was it done, first we had to drill >a #10 hole with the tabs as guide trough both layers of the laminate. Next >we did bent a wire (0.050) in an L-shape by 3/8" with that L shape wire it >was possible to ream all the foam out of the space between inner and outer >laminate, a shop vacuum should get all the particles out. A mixture of >Q-cell and epoxy then was pushed into that void (covered on one side with a >tape) do that slowly to fill it in order to get all air out or drill >another 1/16" vent hole in about half way of the hole. that leaves you at >the end with a 3/4 inch hard point. > >Hope it helps, I could otherwise scan you the GlaStar Manual pages. > >br Werner > >John Gonzalez wrote: >> >>Again, the idea is to have as much of the lamination(s) covering over the >>hardpoint. It needs to really be inside the lamination, not cut into it. >> >>Your suggestion would be 50% correct if you didn't drill throught the >>outside lamination. >> >>I don't know a way to remove a large enough block of foam through four >>holes without the use of solvents which will effect the integrity of the >>surrounding foam. >> >>When I drilled my four holes the drill absolutely popped into foam, not >>wood, unless it was balsa. >> >>Did others really find wood???? I might have something missing. Maybe a >>call to Van's is in order. >> >>John >> >> >>>From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> >>>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>>To: >>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace. >>>Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:49:37 -0700 >>> >>> >>>You can also just clean out the foam and inject a mixture (resin, cabosil >>>and chopped fibers). Be sure and tape the bottoms of the holes and you >>>will >>>get a nice solid hard point without aluminum spacers. >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez >>>Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:40 AM >>>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>>Subject: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace. >>> >>> >>>I have been trimming the windows and working on the cabin top. By the >>>way, >>>an electric high speed grinder with #100 grit works well for finalizing >>>the >>>shape on the windows. It heats up the plexiglass and takes it away all at >>>the same time. Leave the plastic covering on. Outside air temps, as >>>always >>>need to be warm. >>> >>>In section 43 the manual asks you to make aluminum spacers that will >>>house >>>the four screws that through bolt the center brace to the cabin top. I am >>>not one that will normally question the plans, but the aluminum >>>tubes(dowels) I imagine will be bonded into the cabin top and and keep >>>the >>>center brace from pulling out. Being that there are four, it should be >>>fairly strong. >>> >>>What I question however if that there is only so many layers of >>>fiberglass >>>on the outside of the cabin top and so many on the inside. Between there >>>is >>>the usual foam sandwich. These aluminum dowels will get there retension >>>my >>>bonding to both the inside and outside layer of glass, not the foam. The >>>screw head is really not any large in diameter that the O.D. of the >>>aluminum >>> >>>dowel, so it will not provide any retension. >>> >>>Basically, it seems like the cabin top fabricator should have place a >>>hardpoint(Hardwood) in this area instead of the foam or we should be >>>placing >>> >>>a steel plate on the outside to keep these dowels from pulling through. >>>Maybe because there are four it is not a problem, but seeing that they >>>are >>>all in a one inch square spot, my mind thinks it should be made better. >>> >>>John G. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: RV10 Center cabin top brace.
Date: May 01, 2007
A Monojet syringe, you can buy a box of them through a dental supply house for a lot cheeper than Aircraft Spruce sells them. Fill from the bottom so the airspace is pushed out by the raising level of epoxy cotton flox mix. Thanks, John >From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace. >Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 11:10:54 +0200 > > >Forgot, use a syringe to fill the void > >Werner Schneider wrote: >> >>Hello John, >> >>on the GlaStar which has a fibreglass shell over a steel cage we did have >>plenty of hard points (64) to make. How was it done, first we had to drill >>a #10 hole with the tabs as guide trough both layers of the laminate. >>Next we did bent a wire (0.050) in an L-shape by 3/8" with that L shape >>wire it was possible to ream all the foam out of the space between inner >>and outer laminate, a shop vacuum should get all the particles out. A >>mixture of Q-cell and epoxy then was pushed into that void (covered on one >>side with a tape) do that slowly to fill it in order to get all air out or >>drill another 1/16" vent hole in about half way of the hole. that leaves >>you at the end with a 3/4 inch hard point. >> >>Hope it helps, I could otherwise scan you the GlaStar Manual pages. >> >>br Werner >> >>John Gonzalez wrote: >>> >>>Again, the idea is to have as much of the lamination(s) covering over the >>>hardpoint. It needs to really be inside the lamination, not cut into it. >>> >>>Your suggestion would be 50% correct if you didn't drill throught the >>>outside lamination. >>> >>>I don't know a way to remove a large enough block of foam through four >>>holes without the use of solvents which will effect the integrity of the >>>surrounding foam. >>> >>>When I drilled my four holes the drill absolutely popped into foam, not >>>wood, unless it was balsa. >>> >>>Did others really find wood???? I might have something missing. Maybe a >>>call to Van's is in order. >>> >>>John >>> >>> >>>>From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> >>>>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>>>To: >>>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace. >>>>Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:49:37 -0700 >>>> >>>> >>>>You can also just clean out the foam and inject a mixture (resin, >>>>cabosil >>>>and chopped fibers). Be sure and tape the bottoms of the holes and you >>>>will >>>>get a nice solid hard point without aluminum spacers. >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >>>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez >>>>Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:40 AM >>>>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>>>Subject: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>I have been trimming the windows and working on the cabin top. By the >>>>way, >>>>an electric high speed grinder with #100 grit works well for finalizing >>>>the >>>>shape on the windows. It heats up the plexiglass and takes it away all >>>>at >>>>the same time. Leave the plastic covering on. Outside air temps, as >>>>always >>>>need to be warm. >>>> >>>>In section 43 the manual asks you to make aluminum spacers that will >>>>house >>>>the four screws that through bolt the center brace to the cabin top. I >>>>am >>>>not one that will normally question the plans, but the aluminum >>>>tubes(dowels) I imagine will be bonded into the cabin top and and keep >>>>the >>>>center brace from pulling out. Being that there are four, it should be >>>>fairly strong. >>>> >>>>What I question however if that there is only so many layers of >>>>fiberglass >>>>on the outside of the cabin top and so many on the inside. Between there >>>>is >>>>the usual foam sandwich. These aluminum dowels will get there retension >>>>my >>>>bonding to both the inside and outside layer of glass, not the foam. The >>>>screw head is really not any large in diameter that the O.D. of the >>>>aluminum >>>> >>>>dowel, so it will not provide any retension. >>>> >>>>Basically, it seems like the cabin top fabricator should have place a >>>>hardpoint(Hardwood) in this area instead of the foam or we should be >>>>placing >>>> >>>>a steel plate on the outside to keep these dowels from pulling through. >>>>Maybe because there are four it is not a problem, but seeing that they >>>>are >>>>all in a one inch square spot, my mind thinks it should be made better. >>>> >>>>John G. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Greenley" <greenley(at)starband.net>
Subject: RV10 Center cabin top brace.
Date: May 01, 2007
Not to be picky but if you are searching for these the spelling is Monoject. :) Bill Greenley Soon to be RV-10 builder -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 10:49 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace. --> A Monojet syringe, you can buy a box of them through a dental supply house for a lot cheeper than Aircraft Spruce sells them. Fill from the bottom so the airspace is pushed out by the raising level of epoxy cotton flox mix. Thanks, John >From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace. >Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 11:10:54 +0200 > > >Forgot, use a syringe to fill the void > >Werner Schneider wrote: >> >>Hello John, >> >>on the GlaStar which has a fibreglass shell over a steel cage we did >>have >>plenty of hard points (64) to make. How was it done, first we had to drill >>a #10 hole with the tabs as guide trough both layers of the laminate. >>Next we did bent a wire (0.050) in an L-shape by 3/8" with that L shape >>wire it was possible to ream all the foam out of the space between inner >>and outer laminate, a shop vacuum should get all the particles out. A >>mixture of Q-cell and epoxy then was pushed into that void (covered on one >>side with a tape) do that slowly to fill it in order to get all air out or >>drill another 1/16" vent hole in about half way of the hole. that leaves >>you at the end with a 3/4 inch hard point. >> >>Hope it helps, I could otherwise scan you the GlaStar Manual pages. >> >>br Werner >> >>John Gonzalez wrote: >>>--> >>> >>>Again, the idea is to have as much of the lamination(s) covering over >>>the >>>hardpoint. It needs to really be inside the lamination, not cut into it. >>> >>>Your suggestion would be 50% correct if you didn't drill throught the >>>outside lamination. >>> >>>I don't know a way to remove a large enough block of foam through >>>four >>>holes without the use of solvents which will effect the integrity of the >>>surrounding foam. >>> >>>When I drilled my four holes the drill absolutely popped into foam, >>>not >>>wood, unless it was balsa. >>> >>>Did others really find wood???? I might have something missing. Maybe >>>a >>>call to Van's is in order. >>> >>>John >>> >>> >>>>From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> >>>>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>>>To: >>>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace. >>>>Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:49:37 -0700 >>>> >>>> >>>>You can also just clean out the foam and inject a mixture (resin, >>>>cabosil >>>>and chopped fibers). Be sure and tape the bottoms of the holes and you >>>>will >>>>get a nice solid hard point without aluminum spacers. >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >>>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John >>>>Gonzalez >>>>Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:40 AM >>>>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>>>Subject: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>I have been trimming the windows and working on the cabin top. By >>>>the >>>>way, >>>>an electric high speed grinder with #100 grit works well for finalizing >>>>the >>>>shape on the windows. It heats up the plexiglass and takes it away all >>>>at >>>>the same time. Leave the plastic covering on. Outside air temps, as >>>>always >>>>need to be warm. >>>> >>>>In section 43 the manual asks you to make aluminum spacers that will >>>>house >>>>the four screws that through bolt the center brace to the cabin top. I >>>>am >>>>not one that will normally question the plans, but the aluminum >>>>tubes(dowels) I imagine will be bonded into the cabin top and and keep >>>>the >>>>center brace from pulling out. Being that there are four, it should be >>>>fairly strong. >>>> >>>>What I question however if that there is only so many layers of >>>>fiberglass >>>>on the outside of the cabin top and so many on the inside. Between there >>>>is >>>>the usual foam sandwich. These aluminum dowels will get there retension >>>>my >>>>bonding to both the inside and outside layer of glass, not the foam. The >>>>screw head is really not any large in diameter that the O.D. of the >>>>aluminum >>>> >>>>dowel, so it will not provide any retension. >>>> >>>>Basically, it seems like the cabin top fabricator should have place >>>>a >>>>hardpoint(Hardwood) in this area instead of the foam or we should be >>>>placing >>>> >>>>a steel plate on the outside to keep these dowels from pulling >>>>through. Maybe because there are four it is not a problem, but >>>>seeing that they are all in a one inch square spot, my mind thinks >>>>it should be made better. >>>> >>>>John G. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: RV10 Center cabin top brace.
Date: May 01, 2007
When one says the incorrect name to the assistent and then the asistent does not correct the doctor, this is the end result. Thanks for the clarification. These work very well, one needs to cut the end to the appropriate size opening depending on the material that is mixed with the resin. Flox requires the largest opening. >From: "William Greenley" <greenley(at)starband.net> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace. >Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 11:50:36 -0400 > > >Not to be picky but if you are searching for these the spelling is >Monoject. >:) > >Bill Greenley >Soon to be RV-10 builder > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez >Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 10:49 AM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace. > > >--> > >A Monojet syringe, you can buy a box of them through a dental supply house >for a lot cheeper than Aircraft Spruce sells them. Fill from the bottom so >the airspace is pushed out by the raising level of epoxy cotton flox mix. > >Thanks, > >John > > > >From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> > >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace. > >Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 11:10:54 +0200 > > > > > >Forgot, use a syringe to fill the void > > > >Werner Schneider wrote: > >> > >>Hello John, > >> > >>on the GlaStar which has a fibreglass shell over a steel cage we did > >>have > >>plenty of hard points (64) to make. How was it done, first we had to >drill > > >>a #10 hole with the tabs as guide trough both layers of the laminate. > >>Next we did bent a wire (0.050) in an L-shape by 3/8" with that L shape > >>wire it was possible to ream all the foam out of the space between inner > >>and outer laminate, a shop vacuum should get all the particles out. A > >>mixture of Q-cell and epoxy then was pushed into that void (covered on >one > > >>side with a tape) do that slowly to fill it in order to get all air out >or > > >>drill another 1/16" vent hole in about half way of the hole. that leaves > >>you at the end with a 3/4 inch hard point. > >> > >>Hope it helps, I could otherwise scan you the GlaStar Manual pages. > >> > >>br Werner > >> > >>John Gonzalez wrote: > >>>--> > >>> > >>>Again, the idea is to have as much of the lamination(s) covering over > >>>the > >>>hardpoint. It needs to really be inside the lamination, not cut into >it. > >>> > >>>Your suggestion would be 50% correct if you didn't drill throught the > >>>outside lamination. > >>> > >>>I don't know a way to remove a large enough block of foam through > >>>four > >>>holes without the use of solvents which will effect the integrity of >the > >>>surrounding foam. > >>> > >>>When I drilled my four holes the drill absolutely popped into foam, > >>>not > >>>wood, unless it was balsa. > >>> > >>>Did others really find wood???? I might have something missing. Maybe > >>>a > >>>call to Van's is in order. > >>> > >>>John > >>> > >>> > >>>>From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> > >>>>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > >>>>To: > >>>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace. > >>>>Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:49:37 -0700 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>You can also just clean out the foam and inject a mixture (resin, > >>>>cabosil > >>>>and chopped fibers). Be sure and tape the bottoms of the holes and you > >>>>will > >>>>get a nice solid hard point without aluminum spacers. > >>>> > >>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > >>>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John > >>>>Gonzalez > >>>>Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:40 AM > >>>>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > >>>>Subject: RV10-List: RV10 Center cabin top brace. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>I have been trimming the windows and working on the cabin top. By > >>>>the > >>>>way, > >>>>an electric high speed grinder with #100 grit works well for >finalizing > >>>>the > >>>>shape on the windows. It heats up the plexiglass and takes it away all > >>>>at > >>>>the same time. Leave the plastic covering on. Outside air temps, as > >>>>always > >>>>need to be warm. > >>>> > >>>>In section 43 the manual asks you to make aluminum spacers that will > >>>>house > >>>>the four screws that through bolt the center brace to the cabin top. I > >>>>am > >>>>not one that will normally question the plans, but the aluminum > >>>>tubes(dowels) I imagine will be bonded into the cabin top and and keep > >>>>the > >>>>center brace from pulling out. Being that there are four, it should be > >>>>fairly strong. > >>>> > >>>>What I question however if that there is only so many layers of > >>>>fiberglass > >>>>on the outside of the cabin top and so many on the inside. Between >there > > >>>>is > >>>>the usual foam sandwich. These aluminum dowels will get there >retension > >>>>my > >>>>bonding to both the inside and outside layer of glass, not the foam. >The > >>>>screw head is really not any large in diameter that the O.D. of the > >>>>aluminum > >>>> > >>>>dowel, so it will not provide any retension. > >>>> > >>>>Basically, it seems like the cabin top fabricator should have place > >>>>a > >>>>hardpoint(Hardwood) in this area instead of the foam or we should be > >>>>placing > >>>> > >>>>a steel plate on the outside to keep these dowels from pulling > >>>>through. Maybe because there are four it is not a problem, but > >>>>seeing that they are all in a one inch square spot, my mind thinks > >>>>it should be made better. > >>>> > >>>>John G. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2007
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: High Oil Temps
Heres a mod I saw at Sun N fun to redirect the oil cooler air towards the aft opening in the cowl, if you look at the front of the oil cooler you will see a sheet metal curved part that takes the hot air off the cooler air and redirects it to the bottom of the cowl and out the opening...not sure if it helped, the builder seemed to think so. He indicated that the ideal position for the cooler would be 90 degrees from the firewall, not just tilted down like the stock cooler box. Rick S. 40185 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: High Oil Temps
Ditto That! and Thanks Scott for the post regarding the Airflow Performance conversations and findings, particularly since they appear to be supported with some data and testing. Rick, the pic of the diverter duct/shield was intriguing, I wonder if it really helps w/ cooling. I'm not sure what the velocity of the air is exiting the oil cooler, but as it hits the duct/shield I would expect some backpressure to be created which might have an adverse effect on 'pulling' cooling air from the oil cooler. It seems to me that the most optimum location for the oil cooler would be 'in-line' with the intake and exit air, with some sort of a 'venturi' downstream of the oil cooler to compensate for any airflow loss that occurs through the oil cooler itself. Seems that the more bends that are put into the path of the airflow, the more the airflow is restricted and the less efficient it becomes. Fluid dynamics is magic to me so any insight into this topic is educational. Regarding the 'louvers' in the bottom of the cowl. They appear to help with the oil cooling, but I wonder what they are doing to the overall engine cooling/drag equation? this is another area of 'black magic' and what I've learned so for is that it's not at all intuitive. there is a post on VAF from the Lancair list of some in-depth looks into this whole topic of cooling and airflow. http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=17398 Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ KiloPapa wrote: > I appreciate the open discussion and brain-storming regarding the oil > temps, oil cooler location, etc. > Keep it going! > > * > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: UAVs
Date: May 01, 2007
From: <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero>
"Tim Dawson-Townsend of Avidyne fame is now at Aurora Flight Sciences." You might like some of the other vehicles that we have in development (www.aurora.aero <http://www.aurora.aero/> ). And then there's the vehicles that we can't talk about . . . : ) I'm hoping to find an extra gyro camera ball with laser target designator at work that I can hang on the RV-10 . . . But to share the glory, Jim McGrew on the list has first-hand Predator experience (and F-15s, natch) TDT Tim Dawson-Townsend Aurora Flight Sciences tdt(at)aurora.aero 617-401-2522 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2007
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: UAVs
"And then there=92s the vehicles that we can=92t talk about . . . : )" - Tim (see below)=0A=0AOk, but we may not share our oil cooling secrets with you! =0A =0AScott Schmidt=0Ascottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Origi nal Message ----=0AFrom: "tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero" <tdawson-townsend@a urora.aero>=0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, May 1, 2007 9:45 :03 PM=0ASubject: RV10-List: UAVs=0A=0A=0A=93Tim Dawson-Townsend of Avidyne fame is now at Aurora Flight Sciences.=94=0A =0AYou might like some of the other vehicles that we have in development (www.aurora.aero).=0A =0AAnd th en there=92s the vehicles that we can=92t talk about . . . : )=0A =0AI =92m hoping to find an extra gyro camera ball with laser target designator at work that I can hang on the RV-10 . . .=0A =0ABut to share the glory, Ji m McGrew on the list has first-hand Predator experience (and F-15s, natch) =0A =0ATDT=0A =0A =0ATim Dawson-Townsend=0AAurora Flight Sciences=0Atdt@aur =========================0A -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard Reynolds <rvreynolds(at)macs.net>
Subject: RV-10 Throttle Quadrant Documentation
Date: May 02, 2007
What is the drawing number of the RV-10 throttle quadrant installation? I have misplaced mine. Richard Reynolds ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: RV-10 Throttle Quadrant Documentation
Date: May 02, 2007
31Q is mainly mounting quad to sub-panel and 41Q is attaching quad. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ -----Original Message----- Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Throttle Quadrant Documentation What is the drawing number of the RV-10 throttle quadrant installation? I have misplaced mine. Richard Reynolds ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: section 43, transparencies.
Date: May 02, 2007
A joggle is where a molded part indents in to receive another part so that parts make a lap joint. In this email I am speaking of the window joggles on the cabin top. I finished the sizing of the rear windows and I noticed that both the right and left window joggles on the cabin top for the rear windows, at the forward edge, mid way up, are both too shallow to allow the plexiglass to fit flush to the outer skin of the cabin top. It is about 1/8" too shallow. If too deep, shims are used to build it up. The question is, are people finding this area of the cabin top needs to be built up once the doors are installed, because the door stands proud or should I sand some material out of the joggle(It is solid fiberglass) so that the plexiglass sits flush? Why is this fiberglass part so poorly produced? It is as though the window cutouts(Joggles) were scribed by a kindergardener. Keeping the window edge trimming distance consistent is very difficult when nothing makes consistent arcs or staight lines. This part is pretty shameful. Thanks, JOhn ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Oil Changes ( how often )
Date: May 02, 2007
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Just to keep on the oil subject how often are you changing your oil? Me I change my oil every 25 hours. Anyone else? Randy 40006 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Oil Changes ( how often )
Date: May 02, 2007
From: "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com>
Randy - every 25 hours, cut the filter and don't forget to check the finger screen. Rhonda ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 11:14 AM Subject: RV10-List: Oil Changes ( how often ) Just to keep on the oil subject how often are you changing your oil? Me I change my oil every 25 hours. Anyone else? Randy 40006 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 02, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: section 43, transparencies.
John, Having recently completed this step. Here's my experience. Rear windows: The joggle was inconsistent in its depth and depending upon how much of a gap you left when trimming the windows the inconsistencies in the corner of the joggle contributed to the windows fitting unevenly. (window stands proud if trimmed very closely) I used the side of a small heavy duty cutoff wheel in a Dremel tool and 60 grit sandpaper to 'clean-out' the corners of the joggle and to relieve the joggle seat where necessary to make it flat and as consistent a seat as possible. Once that was done I found that it was necessary to shim the rear windows with washers to get them flush with the cabin cover. Door windows, The same issue with the inconsistent depth of the joggle joints as for the rear windows, and I applied the same corrective action. However I found that the door windows did NOT require shimming, and in fact despite the corrective action, I found that a couple of the corners were a bit 'proud' and required some sanding to fair/blend into the door skins. Re fitting the Cabin cover to the doors. I did some extensive work to ensure that the doors and cabin cover matched http://deemsrv10.com/cabinwindowslogindex.html. I was not happy with the rounded edge of the cabin cover and the relatively straight edge of the doors. So when fitting the doors. I built up the cabin cover door opening so that I could match the appearance of the door. It is an entirely cosmetic activity, but I found that there were minor inconsistencies in the exterior of the door skins and the cabin cover that could only be corrected when the doors are fit. It you've haven't already fit your doors, you might hold off on attaching the windows until you have, as that will effect the 'fairing' if you choose to do so. The disconnect between the quality on the alum parts vs the fiberglass parts in the kit is appalling, the only thing more appalling is Van's unwillingness to do anything about it. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ John Gonzalez wrote: > > A joggle is where a molded part indents in to receive another part so > that parts make a lap joint. In this email I am speaking of the window > joggles on the cabin top. > > I finished the sizing of the rear windows and I noticed that both the > right and left window joggles on the cabin top for the rear windows, > at the forward edge, mid way up, are both too shallow to allow the > plexiglass to fit flush to the outer skin of the cabin top. It is > about 1/8" too shallow. If too deep, shims are used to build it up. > > The question is, are people finding this area of the cabin top needs > to be built up once the doors are installed, because the door stands > proud or should I sand some material out of the joggle(It is solid > fiberglass) so that the plexiglass sits flush? > > Why is this fiberglass part so poorly produced? It is as though the > window cutouts(Joggles) were scribed by a kindergardener. Keeping the > window edge trimming distance consistent is very difficult when > nothing makes consistent arcs or staight lines. This part is pretty > shameful. > > Thanks, > > JOhn ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Subject: Re: section 43, transparencies.
Date: May 02, 2007
Hi John, Having just returned from the AirCrafters composite class (where we fit a cabin top), I believe I can actually answer this one. You do wind up building up the cabin top (with flox) to bring it up flush with the window. You'll find that you also need to do it on the forward side of the door. Jeff Carpenter 40304 HIDs On May 2, 2007, at 9:06 AM, John Gonzalez wrote: > > > A joggle is where a molded part indents in to receive another part > so that parts make a lap joint. In this email I am speaking of the > window joggles on the cabin top. > > I finished the sizing of the rear windows and I noticed that both > the right and left window joggles on the cabin top for the rear > windows, at the forward edge, mid way up, are both too shallow to > allow the plexiglass to fit flush to the outer skin of the cabin > top. It is about 1/8" too shallow. If too deep, shims are used to > build it up. > > The question is, are people finding this area of the cabin top > needs to be built up once the doors are installed, because the door > stands proud or should I sand some material out of the joggle(It is > solid fiberglass) so that the plexiglass sits flush? > > Why is this fiberglass part so poorly produced? It is as though the > window cutouts(Joggles) were scribed by a kindergardener. Keeping > the window edge trimming distance consistent is very difficult when > nothing makes consistent arcs or staight lines. This part is pretty > shameful. > > Thanks, > > JOhn > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 02, 2007
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Changes ( how often )
I wanted to ask the exact same question Randy so thanks. Right now I have been changing my oil every 25 hours but like I mentioned before, I am going to change to the ExxonElite semi-synthetic and would like to go from 25 - no more than 50 hours like Tim mentioned. Right now I am changing my oil e very 25 days roughly and the guys around the airport say that I could defin itely go to 50 hours with no problems even with straight 100 oil. So if I c an go 35-50 hours (again depending if a bigger trip is coming up) and use s emi-synthetic that would be great for the work load. =0A =0AScott Schmidt =0Ascottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: T im Olson =0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, May 2, 2007 9:48:28 AM=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: Oil Changes ( how often ) 'm usually trying to do it a bit before 50 hours, usually 35-45 hours=0Aint o a change. Depends on the situation. If I am flying a long trip,=0AI try to get it done before the trip. Depending on who you talk to,=0Ayou'll he ar 25 to 50, with the 50 being only if you have a spin-on=0Afilter...which we pretty much all do. It will only be better to change=0Ait more often, b ut depending on your oil choice, it can cost a lot=0Ato stick to a strict 2 5. I do also do oil analysis at every change=0Ato get a trend going for mo nitoring.=0A=0AClean oil is your friend though, so you're doing great if yo u keep=0Aup on the 25.=0A=0ATim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying=0Ado not arch ive=0A=0A=0ARhonda Bewley wrote:=0A> Randy ' every 25 hours, cut the filt er and don=92t forget to check the =0A> finger screen.=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> //Rhonda//=0A> =0A> ------------------------------------------------------- -----------------=0A> =0A> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com =0A > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Randy DeBauw =0A> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 02, 2007 11:14 AM=0A> *To:* rv10-list@matronics .com=0A> *Subject:* RV10-List: Oil Changes ( how often )=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A > Just to keep on the oil subject how often are you changing your oil? Me =0A> I change my oil every 25 hours. Anyone else? Randy 40006=0A> =0A> * *=0A> =0A> * *=0A> =0A> **=0A> =0A> **=0A> =0A> **=0A> =0A> **=0A> =0A> ** ================ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Garmin G-900X in RV Panel
Date: May 02, 2007
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
Has anyone on the list decided to go with the Garmin G-900X in their RV-10? And if so are you far enough along to have dealt with the solving the panel support structure issues? Robin Marks Shaking the piggy bank to see what is left ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 02, 2007
From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Should the aileron bellcrank bushing be lubricated?
I'm in the process of installing the aileron bellcranks. Should they be lubed in any way? The parts include an AN4 bolt, going thru a brass bushing that goes thru the 4130 steel bellcrank body. It seems that a light application of something like lubriplate would be a good thing, but I hear that some bearings can be damaged by lubrication (by holding abrasive debris in place).. I also have some unfinished steel surfaces at the ends of the bellcrank shaft where I filed away the powdercoat. Seems to be that those surfaces should be lightly lubed. I'm thinking that primer or paint will be worn/wiped away very quickly. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard Reynolds <rvreynolds(at)macs.net>
Subject: Re: RV-10 Throttle Quadrant Documentation
Date: May 02, 2007
Thanks, Richard Reynolds On May 2, 2007, at 9:22 AM, Albert Gardner wrote: > > > 31Q is mainly mounting quad to sub-panel and 41Q is attaching quad. > Albert Gardner > Yuma, AZ > > -----Original Message----- > Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Throttle Quadrant Documentation > What is the drawing number of the RV-10 throttle quadrant > installation? I have misplaced mine. > Richard Reynolds > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 02, 2007
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>
Subject: Should the aileron bellcrank bushing be lubricated?
I put lubriplate on mine. My parts did need some tweaking filing to get a good fit and not bind. The bell crank area should be closed and not in an area where one would worry a lot about dirt. Keep the lubriplate off the threads so as not to mess up the proper torque. Fred Williams 40515 fixin' to start the dreaded step 29. ......... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com>
Subject: G530W, Trutrak and GRT
Date: May 02, 2007
I recently started making successful GPS/LPA approaches and wanted to offer the procedure for those who have this set up or are thinking about it. Since the 530W is new, there are no documentations on what to do and how to set up the GPS to talk to IIVSGV. There is also no documentations regarding the messages you get on the IIVSGV while flying this type of approach. It took me many phone calls, several approaches and much head-scratching to arrive at this procedure. So here is what worked for me: Wire up the three units as recommended by GRT including the ARINC panel switch. Power up the Garmin while holding the ENTER button. Once the unit is up, rotate the big knob on the right hand side to get to the ARINC page. Set up the output to 429 Gamma, the speed LOW and LABLES to On. Step 1: While being Vectored to Final (full approach is also the same in concept) set your GRT to Heading and Altitude Select and fly as the controllers tell you. Once you have arrived at the final altitude for the approach, set the ALT button on the IIVSGV to altitude hold, which means pressing the ALT button once to see the number 0 above it. This step is important as I will explain later. Step 2: Throw the ARINC Panel Switch to control the IIVSGV from G530W. Now, press the ALT button once more and verify that you have GPSV-HLD in the window. This means that the altitude is being held by G530W (I imagine). Once the final approach course is intercepted, the autopilot will show GPSV-ARM and it will follow the published course to FAF. Once you pass the FAF, the auto pilot will show GPSV- and a DOWN ARROW meaning that you are on your way to runway threshold. If during Step 2, you do not press ALT button to get 0 in the ALT window and simply switch over to G530 control, you will get GPSV-FLG and the autopilot will do strange things. In my case, it sometimes climbs and sometimes descends. This does not make sense to me and I am hoping someone will verify this and post their findings. Also, at this time, GRT does not show a glide-slope needle for LPV approaches. This, in my opinion is a serious short coming as you have no idea where you are on the glide-slope in real IFR weather. GRT is working on it. Hope this helps. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Electrical: Dynon and Lightspeed Ignition
Date: May 02, 2007
My Dynon 180 has a input called 'keep alive' which will keep the internal battery charged on the unit so that it doesn't run down and require reloading the program. It needs to go directly to the battery bypassing the master contactor. Unfortunately, I did not run a wire for that under the floor. Fortunately, the Lightspeed ignition needs to run a shielded conductor back to the battery also. Unfortunately, I didn't run that wire either. Fortunately, that shielded wire will go to a circuit breaker so I can tie the Dynon keep alive circuit to that point, and I did leave some wireways under the floor and on the sides with string in them so it will not require disassembling the fuse in order to add the wire. A heads-up for Lightspeed and Dynon users. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com>
Subject: Fuselage weight
Date: May 02, 2007
Question for anyone to answer: What is your best guess of the fuselage weight with the cabin top and tail cone on but no interior or avionics? No gear or engine mount either ( no finish kit yet ). Moving to the hangar this weekend an trying to recruit enough help to load this bad boy. Best guess is two guys each side and one on the tail would do it but the more the merrier. Using a flat trailer. Suggestions?........john John Hasbrouck #40264 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Fuselage weight
Date: May 02, 2007
I did it with 4 people. Back, front, side, side. And a fifth to move the platform I used to build it on. Rene' Felker N423CF 40322 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hasbrouck Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 6:28 PM Subject: RV10-List: Fuselage weight Question for anyone to answer: What is your best guess of the fuselage weight with the cabin top and tail cone on but no interior or avionics? No gear or engine mount either ( no finish kit yet ). Moving to the hangar this weekend an trying to recruit enough help to load this bad boy. Best guess is two guys each side and one on the tail would do it but the more the merrier. Using a flat trailer. Suggestions?........john John Hasbrouck #40264 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Fuselage weight
Date: May 02, 2007
4 people. One on each gear leg, one on tail & one backup for where needed. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com 352-427-0285 -----Original Message----- From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com> Sent: 5/2/2007 8:28 PM Subject: RV10-List: Fuselage weight Question for anyone to answer: What is your best guess of the fuselage weight with the cabin top and tail cone on but no interior or avionics? No gear or engine mount either ( no finish kit yet ). Moving to the hangar this weekend an trying to recruit enough help to load this bad boy. Best guess is two guys each side and one on the tail would do it but the more the merrier. Using a flat trailer. Suggestions?........john John Hasbrouck #40264 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Electrical: Dynon and Lightspeed Ignition
Date: May 02, 2007
If you have the internal battery, don't use keep alive at all. I can explain why later if you want. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com 352-427-0285 -----Original Message----- From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> Sent: 5/2/2007 6:36 PM Subject: RV10-List: Electrical: Dynon and Lightspeed Ignition My Dynon 180 has a input called 'keep alive' which will keep the internal battery charged on the unit so that it doesn't run down and require reloading the program. It needs to go directly to the battery bypassing the master contactor. Unfortunately, I did not run a wire for that under the floor. Fortunately, the Lightspeed ignition needs to run a shielded conductor back to the battery also. Unfortunately, I didn't run that wire either. Fortunately, that shielded wire will go to a circuit breaker so I can tie the Dynon keep alive circuit to that point, and I did leave some wireways under the floor and on the sides with string in them so it will not require disassembling the fuse in order to add the wire. A heads-up for Lightspeed and Dynon users. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: section 43, transparencies.
Date: May 02, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Acknowledged with no acceptable answer. Watch for a solution at OSH '07. John Cox -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 9:07 AM Subject: RV10-List: section 43, transparencies. A joggle is where a molded part indents in to receive another part so that parts make a lap joint. In this email I am speaking of the window joggles on the cabin top. I finished the sizing of the rear windows and I noticed that both the right and left window joggles on the cabin top for the rear windows, at the forward edge, mid way up, are both too shallow to allow the plexiglass to fit flush to the outer skin of the cabin top. It is about 1/8" too shallow. If too deep, shims are used to build it up. The question is, are people finding this area of the cabin top needs to be built up once the doors are installed, because the door stands proud or should I sand some material out of the joggle(It is solid fiberglass) so that the plexiglass sits flush? Why is this fiberglass part so poorly produced? It is as though the window cutouts(Joggles) were scribed by a kindergardener. Keeping the window edge trimming distance consistent is very difficult when nothing makes consistent arcs or staight lines. This part is pretty shameful. Thanks, JOhn ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Oil Changes ( how often )
Date: May 02, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Rotax Cert. Training did a financial comparison between 25 & 50 hours with rebuilds on scores of engines. Oil which keeps contaminates "in suspension" is the issue. Leaded fuel which finds its way into the oil is fascinating. Moisture from lack of use (the acids they create) and hangar storage can be near fatal. Fly often .... Fly Safe. Always change the filter, always inspect the screening material, always carry an adequate supply of oil for cooling. Changing the oil allows a set of eyes to check for exhaust cracks, loose wires, oil leaks, chafing or broken baffle material. I heartily second Rhonda's and the team from Barrett's recommendation. You can pay sooner or pay much more later. The piece of mind.... Priceless. John - 25 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rhonda Bewley Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 9:34 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil Changes ( how often ) Randy - every 25 hours, cut the filter and don't forget to check the finger screen. Rhonda ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 11:14 AM Subject: RV10-List: Oil Changes ( how often ) Just to keep on the oil subject how often are you changing your oil? Me I change my oil every 25 hours. Anyone else? Randy 40006 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)suddenlink.net>
Subject: Re: Oil Changes ( how often )
Date: May 03, 2007
I also change my oil and filter every 25 hours. In addition I take an oil test sample and send it off to try and catch any abnormal wear issues. Coming up on fourth oil change. Russ Daves N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: Overhead Seat Belt Holder Attach
Date: May 03, 2007
I've seen lot of -10's (including Van's) with a seat belt strap holder mounted overhead on the canopy between the front seats. How are people attaching it? I drilled mine between the doors near the front door hinges and there is foam between the layers of fiberglass. I could either pull rivet it (but then it is not easily removable for the headliner, etc.) or drill through the whole top and use flat head screws. Just wondering what others were doing -Mike K ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Should the aileron bellcrank bushing be lubricated?
Date: May 03, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
I generally use LPS spray lubricant on all moving parts of the control system. Should be aplied at each annual "condition inspection" as well. I've got to order some from AS&S this week, Bill. Do you want me to order a can for you as well? Jack Phillips #40610 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 4:00 PM Subject: RV10-List: Should the aileron bellcrank bushing be lubricated? I'm in the process of installing the aileron bellcranks. Should they be lubed in any way? The parts include an AN4 bolt, going thru a brass bushing that goes thru the 4130 steel bellcrank body. It seems that a light application of something like lubriplate would be a good thing, but I hear that some bearings can be damaged by lubrication (by holding abrasive debris in place).. I also have some unfinished steel surfaces at the ends of the bellcrank shaft where I filed away the powdercoat. Seems to be that those surfaces should be lightly lubed. I'm thinking that primer or paint will be worn/wiped away very quickly. _________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com>
Subject: Overhead Seat Belt Holder Attach
Date: May 03, 2007
Folks are using the door hinge bolts. >From: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV10-List: Overhead Seat Belt Holder Attach >Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 06:06:14 -0400 > >I've seen lot of -10's (including Van's) with a seat belt strap holder >mounted overhead on the canopy between the front seats. How are people >attaching it? I drilled mine between the doors near the front door >hinges and there is foam between the layers of fiberglass. I could >either pull rivet it (but then it is not easily removable for the >headliner, etc.) or drill through the whole top and use flat head >screws. > >Just wondering what others were doing >-Mike K _________________________________________________________________ Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Overhead Seat Belt Holder Attach
Date: May 03, 2007
If you don't want it under the same nuts as the door hinges, you can pop rivet a plate with nutplates in it to the cabin top and screw into the nutplates. This is a good way to fasten a lot of different things to the cabin top where desired. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kraus Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 6:06 AM Subject: RV10-List: Overhead Seat Belt Holder Attach I've seen lot of -10's (including Van's) with a seat belt strap holder mounted overhead on the canopy between the front seats. How are people attaching it? I drilled mine between the doors near the front door hinges and there is foam between the layers of fiberglass. I could either pull rivet it (but then it is not easily removable for the headliner, etc.) or drill through the whole top and use flat head screws. Just wondering what others were doing -Mike K ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Garmin G-900X in RV Panel
From: "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net>
Date: May 03, 2007
Robin, I am going with the 900X. Stein will be sending the racks shortly. After I get them, I'll know better about the installation process. Hopefully, we won't have to cut anything from the supporting top skin ribs. Zack -------- RV8 #80125 RV10 # 40512 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110621#110621 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Oil Changes ( how often )
Date: May 03, 2007
From: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com>
I change mine every 50 Tach hours. Philips 20XC50 oil , Tempest 48108 Filter and AOA oil analysis on each change. Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 N519RV (244 on the Hobbs) ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 11:14 AM Subject: RV10-List: Oil Changes ( how often ) Just to keep on the oil subject how often are you changing your oil? Me I change my oil every 25 hours. Anyone else? Randy 40006 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Info on RV Dinner, May 12
Date: May 03, 2007
Can anyone supply info on the RV meeting/dinner planned for May 12th? ERic-- RV-10, 40014 N104EP As a pilot, only two bad things can happen to you: a. One day you will walk out to the aircraft knowing that it is your last flight. b. One day you will walk out to the aircraft not knowing that it is your last flight. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 03, 2007
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Tunnel Access Hole / Fuel Filter
Sorry, I took so long to post this picture. Here is a shot of the access hole I cut into the tunnel to check fuel filter. With the throttle quadrant I have it is much more difficult to gain access from the top. Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 03, 2007
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>
Subject: Tunnel access cover
Scott; What kind of service will the filter need? Will it be something that should be replaced on an annual basis? Or is this solution just for visualization of the tunnel and filter? Fred Williams ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 03, 2007
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tunnel access cover
I cannot find my instructions but I understand the manufacture recommends to check after the first 10-20 hours, then at every annual. You can replace it but it is made to be cleaned. When I checked mine I for sure thought I would find at least a small piece of pro-seal but nothing but a little piece of lint. The whole purpose of the tunnel access was to remove the fuel filter, unscrew it and check it. It does also make it easy to inspect the whole fuel system for leaks. Here is a link to Dan Checkoway's 2005 annual. He has a picture of it here. http://www.rvproject.com/annual2005.html Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com> Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2007 1:42:52 PM Subject: RV10-List: Tunnel access cover Scott; What kind of service will the filter need? Will it be something that should be replaced on an annual basis? Or is this solution just for visualization of the tunnel and filter? Fred Williams ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 03, 2007
From: Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-10 Throttle Quadrant Documentation
...and be sure to note if they have fixed the drawing that shows the bracket installed backwards (just like I riveted mine the first time). Jay 1250 hours and enjoying the slow build journey Re: RV-10 Throttle Quadrant Documentation Van's sends you Section 31Q and 41Q to replace your original plans sections when you get the quadrant. (They didn't automatically send mine, but I had to get them from them, which they provided electronically) Richard Reynolds wrote: > > What is the drawing number of the RV-10 throttle quadrant installation? > I have misplaced mine. > __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <jim(at)CombsFive.Com>
Subject: Re: Fuselage weight
Date: May 03, 2007
John, Attached is a set of instructions. Someone else may want to build a set. How about we do this. You pay the shipping and you can "Use" these. When finished they have to be provided to another -10 builder (Who also pays to have them shipped). I will have to figure out how to box them up. Provide me a "ship to" address (Off List!). Jim Combs 40192 N312F =========================================================== From: "John Cram" <johncram(at)msn.com> Date: 2007/05/03 Thu PM 03:23:41 EDT Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuselage weight jim, would you be interested in selling them when you install the mains. I am building in the Houston area. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 03, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: More Oil Temp info
I found some information on a Rocket builders web site that speaks to lowering temperatures. He installed :Louvers on the bottom of his cowl and lowered Oil & CHT/s by 20Deg F. Here's the link http://www.vincesrocket.com/Additions%20after%2010-27-04.htm Scroll down the page a bit Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Door latches
Date: May 04, 2007
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
G'day all, I've done an archive search on this and found the identical problem posed by Rob Kermanj back in 2005. Unfortunately no response (I think listers are waaaay too liberal with Do Not Arch. . . and MUCH useful info is lost). My door latch racks have been cut precisley as dimensioned in the plans, but they are almost 1/8" too long relative to the latch pocket. The door latch assy will therefore not fit into the pocket so that the holes for the rods can be marked. Like Rob, I will likely need to put 4 holes in the pocket to allow full travel of the racks. Is this normal, or is there another solution?? Trimming the length of the racks will get very close to the holes in the ends. Thanks in advance Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Door latches
Date: May 04, 2007
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
Think I found the answer on Tim O's site. Thank heavens for the RV university (and Tim's search facility)!! Sorry for the wasted bandwidth. Heading back to the shed to give it a go . . . cheers, Ron -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of McGANN, Ron Sent: Fri 04/05/2007 18:58 Subject: RV10-List: Door latches G'day all, I've done an archive search on this and found the identical problem posed by Rob Kermanj back in 2005. Unfortunately no response (I think listers are waaaay too liberal with Do Not Arch. . . and MUCH useful info is lost). My door latch racks have been cut precisley as dimensioned in the plans, but they are almost 1/8" too long relative to the latch pocket. The door latch assy will therefore not fit into the pocket so that the holes for the rods can be marked. Like Rob, I will likely need to put 4 holes in the pocket to allow full travel of the racks. Is this normal, or is there another solution?? Trimming the length of the racks will get very close to the holes in the ends. Thanks in advance Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 04, 2007
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Door latches
Hi Ron, Are you referring to how the 2 racks just can't be assembled and still fit in the pocket? I see you already found the answer on my site to your question, but I just want to verify that's the problem. If so, what I did was install the first few parts, and then basically install the racks and last parts after they were in the door pocket. It wasn't the most fun but it worked. Also, those holes where the latch pins go needed to be opened up quite a bit to freely allow the straight pin/cotter pin arrangement to still fit through. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying McGANN, Ron wrote: > > G'day all, > > I've done an archive search on this and found the identical problem > posed by Rob Kermanj back in 2005. Unfortunately no response (I think > listers are waaaay too liberal with Do Not Arch. . . and MUCH useful > info is lost). > > My door latch racks have been cut precisley as dimensioned in the plans, > but they are almost 1/8" too long relative to the latch pocket. The > door latch assy will therefore not fit into the pocket so that the holes > for the rods can be marked. Like Rob, I will likely need to put 4 holes > in the pocket to allow full travel of the racks. Is this normal, or is > there another solution?? Trimming the length of the racks will get very > close to the holes in the ends. > > Thanks in advance > Ron > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: G530W, Trutrak and GRT Update
Date: May 04, 2007
Since the write-up, GRT has updated the software to 29e (Beta Version and not published yet) and the Glide-slope needle shows on GPS LPV approaches. On May 2, 2007, at 5:52 PM, Rob Kermanj wrote: > > I recently started making successful GPS/LPA approaches and wanted > to offer the procedure for those who have this set up or are > thinking about it. > > Since the 530W is new, there are no documentations on what to do > and how to set up the GPS to talk to IIVSGV. There is also no > documentations regarding the messages you get on the IIVSGV while > flying this type of approach. It took me many phone calls, several > approaches and much head-scratching to arrive at this procedure. > > So here is what worked for me: > > Wire up the three units as recommended by GRT including the ARINC > panel switch. > > Power up the Garmin while holding the ENTER button. Once the unit > is up, rotate the big knob on the right hand side to get to the > ARINC page. Set up the output to 429 Gamma, the speed LOW and > LABLES to On. > > Step 1: While being Vectored to Final (full approach is also the > same in concept) set your GRT to Heading and Altitude Select and > fly as the controllers tell you. Once you have arrived at the > final altitude for the approach, set the ALT button on the IIVSGV > to altitude hold, which means pressing the ALT button once to see > the number 0 above it. This step is important as I will explain > later. > > Step 2: Throw the ARINC Panel Switch to control the IIVSGV from > G530W. Now, press the ALT button once more and verify that you > have GPSV-HLD in the window. This means that the altitude is being > held by G530W (I imagine). > > Once the final approach course is intercepted, the autopilot will > show GPSV-ARM and it will follow the published course to FAF. > > Once you pass the FAF, the auto pilot will show GPSV- and a DOWN > ARROW meaning that you are on your way to runway threshold. > > If during Step 2, you do not press ALT button to get 0 in the ALT > window and simply switch over to G530 control, you will get GPSV- > FLG and the autopilot will do strange things. In my case, it > sometimes climbs and sometimes descends. This does not make sense > to me and I am hoping someone will verify this and post their > findings. > > Also, at this time, GRT does not show a glide-slope needle for LPV > approaches. This, in my opinion is a serious short coming as you > have no idea where you are on the glide-slope in real IFR weather. > GRT is working on it. > > Hope this helps. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Avionics Wiring: SL30/40 to PMA8000
Date: May 04, 2007
I am wiring my audio panel (PS 8000) to my Garmin SL30 and 40 and need some help. SL30, the comm. outputs to the audio panel are labeled as follows: Pin 14 Headphone Pin 13 Audio Ground Pin 8 Mic 1 Pin 7 Mic Ground Pin 4 TxKey PS8000, the audio panel inputs from Comm Transceiver #1 are labeled as follows: Pin 9 Com 1 Audio Hi Pin 10 Com 1 Lo Pin 11 Com 1 Mic Audio Hi Pin 12 Com 1 Mic Key Has anyone completed this specific installation and could help out? Also, the audio panel says ground shields at audio panel only, float other ends while the SL30 diagram has some shields grounded there and says leave other end floating. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 04, 2007
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Avionics Wiring: SL30/40 to PMA8000
Regarding the grounds, do them as the PS8000 manual shows. The SL-30's "Headphone" is the "Audio Hi". Lots of avionics just call the signal and ground "Hi" and "Lo", so think of the "Com 1 Lo" as the audio signal ground. Same with the Mic. The Com1 Mic Key should just apply a ground to your Nav/COM pin that will cause it to transmit, when you push the PTT button wired into your audio panel. The attached PMA8000 wiring diagram should be almost everything you need. The audio panel wiring is about the most complicated in the entire panel, and certainly can have the most wires of just about everything. Mine is wired with dual music inputs, both switchable to be fed from either jack as front or rear for split music in either jack direction, and it also includes the telephone input, and I filled up the audio inputs. It also has Karoke mode, and the muting override, so it's pretty much a complete install. Can't go without karoke, so you can yell to the music....and with headphones, your passengers can't even hear you. ;) Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD Albert Gardner wrote: > I am wiring my audio panel (PS 8000) to my Garmin SL30 and 40 and need > some help. > SL30, the comm. outputs to the audio panel are labeled as follows: > > Pin 14 Headphone > Pin 13 Audio Ground > Pin 8 Mic 1 > Pin 7 Mic Ground > Pin 4 TxKey > PS8000, the audio panel inputs from Comm Transceiver #1 are labeled as > follows: > > Pin 9 Com 1 Audio Hi > Pin 10 Com 1 Lo > Pin 11 Com 1 Mic Audio Hi > Pin 12 Com 1 Mic Key > Has anyone completed this specific installation and could help out? > Also, the audio panel says ground shields at audio panel only, float > other ends while the SL30 diagram has some shields grounded there and > says leave other end floating. > Albert Gardner > > Yuma, AZ > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: builder status
From: Michael D Chase <MChase(at)gdatp.com>
Date: May 04, 2007
Tim, When you get a chance change my status over from Tail to wings if you don't mind. I finished up the tail cone last weekend and started inventorying the wing kit this week. I am almost done right:-) Thanks Michael Chase General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products 802-657-6029 Office 802-922-5930 Cell mchase(at)gdatp.com This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is private, confidential, or exempt from disclosure. Any unauthorized review, use, copying, printing, disclosure, retention, or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply to this e-mail, and delete all copies without disclosing this message to others. Thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Grimstad" <bldgrv10450(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Tunnel Access Hole / Fuel Filter
Date: May 04, 2007
Scott Just curious? Did you cut in the access panel blind or did you have to remove the console for the install? I'm lucky to be at the point where cut-in will be easy. In fact I think I will go do it right now. Paul Grimstad RV10 #450 fuselage, rudder controls and party planner Portland, OR 97219 ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Schmidt To: RV-10 List Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 11:00 AM Subject: RV10-List: Tunnel Access Hole / Fuel Filter Sorry, I took so long to post this picture. Here is a shot of the access hole I cut into the tunnel to check fuel filter. With the throttle quadrant I have it is much more difficult to gain access from the top. Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 04, 2007
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tunnel Access Hole / Fuel Filter
I did remove the console to make sure I was not going to hit a fuel line plus I wanted to to place it as close to the fuel filter as possible. I took everything apart to install my O2 system. But after 3 hours of thinking and planning I decided to send it all back and just use a portable system. Works great, just throw it in when you need it. I cut the hole at the same time. Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Paul Grimstad <bldgrv10450(at)comcast.net> Sent: Friday, May 4, 2007 8:46:14 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tunnel Access Hole / Fuel Filter Scott Just curious? Did you cut in the access panel blind or did you have to remove the console for the install? I'm lucky to be at the point where cut-in will be easy. In fact I think I will go do it right now. Paul Grimstad RV10 #450 fuselage, rudder controls and party planner Portland, OR 97219 ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Schmidt Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 11:00 AM Subject: RV10-List: Tunnel Access Hole / Fuel Filter Sorry, I took so long to post this picture. Here is a shot of the access hole I cut into the tunnel to check fuel filter. With the throttle quadrant I have it is much more difficult to gain access from the top. Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 04, 2007
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Dash Cover
I need to finish the dash cover. How did most of you do yours? I have been told to use Vinyl and not leather. I guess the leather will shrink. Did you glue directly to the aluminum or to some type of high density foam? Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Avionics Wiring: SL30/40 to PMA8000
Date: May 04, 2007
Thanks Tim. My confusion is over the fact that there are 5 pins in the SL30 and only 4 in the PMA8000 for the Com 1 radio. I think the solution is to run both the SL30's pin 13 (audio ground) and pin 7 (mic ground) to the PMA8000 pin 10 (com 1 lo). Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ ( ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com>
Subject: Quickbuild wing and fuse delivery guidance
Date: May 04, 2007
I ordered RV-10 quickbuild wing and fuselage kits which Vans is ready to crate and ship. They offer shipment via FedEx freight but advise that I will need to arrange for pickup of the crates from the local depot or offloading of the truck myself. Given the size and weight of these crates this is obviously problematic. How have other dealt with delivery of their QB kits? I have never had to deal with deliveries of this nature and so this is new territory for me. I do not have a vehicle capable transporting these crates and I am considering renting a 16 ft flatbed truck and making several trips to the depot so that I can better arrange for help. But as others have been through this already, I wanted to see if anyone has any guidance on this to offer. Thank you in advance for any suggestions. Best Regards, Patrick ONeill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Lenhardt" <av8or(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Quickbuild wing and fuse delivery guidance
Date: May 04, 2007
I don't know where you are located (CA, I thought), but I used Partain trucking to deliver my QB Wings and Fuse. They don't have to crate the items and you save the crating charges. I was pleased with their delivery right to my door and with a couple of friends we unloaded the truck in no time. Here's a link to Partain Transport Company : http://vansairforce.net/graphics/partaintruckingco.htm He's an RV Builder too. John Lenhardt #40262 Roanoke, VA ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick ONeill To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 2:07 PM Subject: RV10-List: Quickbuild wing and fuse delivery guidance I ordered RV-10 quickbuild wing and fuselage kits which Vans is ready to crate and ship. They offer shipment via FedEx freight but advise that I will need to arrange for pickup of the crates from the local depot or offloading of the truck myself. Given the size and weight of these crates this is obviously problematic. How have other dealt with delivery of their QB kits? I have never had to deal with deliveries of this nature and so this is new territory for me. I do not have a vehicle capable transporting these crates and I am considering renting a 16 ft flatbed truck and making several trips to the depot so that I can better arrange for help. But as others have been through this already, I wanted to see if anyone has any guidance on this to offer. Thank you in advance for any suggestions. Best Regards, Patrick ONeill ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Quickbuild wing and fuse delivery guidance
Date: May 04, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Set up a deal with Tony Partain and they will deliver directly to your shop, and the best customer service ever!! Dan N289DT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick ONeill Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 2:07 PM Subject: RV10-List: Quickbuild wing and fuse delivery guidance I ordered RV-10 quickbuild wing and fuselage kits which Vans is ready to crate and ship. They offer shipment via FedEx freight but advise that I will need to arrange for pickup of the crates from the local depot or offloading of the truck myself. Given the size and weight of these crates this is obviously problematic. How have other dealt with delivery of their QB kits? I have never had to deal with deliveries of this nature and so this is new territory for me. I do not have a vehicle capable transporting these crates and I am considering renting a 16 ft flatbed truck and making several trips to the depot so that I can better arrange for help. But as others have been through this already, I wanted to see if anyone has any guidance on this to offer. Thank you in advance for any suggestions. Best Regards, Patrick ONeill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 04, 2007
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Quickbuild wing and fuse delivery guidance
Another vote for Partain. My father in law, uncle, my 8 year old son and I were easily able to unload with the help of the driver. <http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Construct/Log/Wings/Unload/index.html> You might want to start working on a wing stand to store the QB wings. <http://lrosen.nerv10.com/tips.html> -- Larry Rosen RV-10 #356 http://lrosen.nerv10.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 04, 2007
From: rv10builder <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Quickbuild wing and fuse delivery guidance
Partain Transport...I wouldn't trust anyone else unless your picking it up yourself! Have a look: http://www.golfsierra.org/9sept05/9sept05.html Brian #40308 Patrick ONeill wrote: > > I ordered RV-10 quickbuild wing and fuselage kits which Vans is ready to > crate and ship. They offer shipment via FedEx freight but advise that I > will need to arrange for pickup of the crates from the local depot or > offloading of the truck myself. Given the size and weight of these crates > this is obviously problematic. > > How have other dealt with delivery of their QB kits? > > I have never had to deal with deliveries of this nature and so this is new > territory for me. > > I do not have a vehicle capable transporting these crates and I am > considering renting a 16 ft flatbed truck and making several trips to the > depot so that I can better arrange for help. But as others have been > through this already, I wanted to see if anyone has any guidance on this to > offer. > > Thank you in advance for any suggestions. > > Best Regards, > Patrick ONeill > > > > . > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dash Cover
From: "jim berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net>
Date: May 04, 2007
I just talked to Abby at Flightline Interiors about this 2 days ago, as she was getting ready to ship out my interior. She thinks a good quality leather (like hers naturally) will hold up fine. She also recommended using Weld Wood gel contact cement for glueing down all interior material, including headliner. She has a new double welt assembly covered in the material of your choice to trim out the door and rear windows which she is sending. I have not seen it yet, but she really likes it. Jim Berry 40482 Finishing Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110880#110880 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Door latches
Date: May 05, 2007
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
Thanks Tim - yes that was precisely the issue. Randy's solution of using the offcut from trimming the rack to locate the holes works perfectly. But the racks are still too long for the pocket, so I expect completing the installation may be a bit of a pain as you suggest. Thanks again for your site tho'. Without resources like yours and the list in general, much head scratching is required. cheers, Ron -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Tim Olson Sent: Fri 04/05/2007 20:59 Subject: Re: RV10-List: Door latches Hi Ron, Are you referring to how the 2 racks just can't be assembled and still fit in the pocket? I see you already found the answer on my site to your question, but I just want to verify that's the problem. If so, what I did was install the first few parts, and then basically install the racks and last parts after they were in the door pocket. It wasn't the most fun but it worked. Also, those holes where the latch pins go needed to be opened up quite a bit to freely allow the straight pin/cotter pin arrangement to still fit through. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying McGANN, Ron wrote: > > G'day all, > > I've done an archive search on this and found the identical problem > posed by Rob Kermanj back in 2005. Unfortunately no response (I think > listers are waaaay too liberal with Do Not Arch. . . and MUCH useful > info is lost). > > My door latch racks have been cut precisley as dimensioned in the plans, > but they are almost 1/8" too long relative to the latch pocket. The > door latch assy will therefore not fit into the pocket so that the holes > for the rods can be marked. Like Rob, I will likely need to put 4 holes > in the pocket to allow full travel of the racks. Is this normal, or is > there another solution?? Trimming the length of the racks will get very > close to the holes in the ends. > > Thanks in advance > Ron > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Tunnel Access Hole / Fuel Filter
Date: May 04, 2007
Scott, Could you post measurements from some reference points so when I cut the access panel it will be close to the fuel filter? Thanks, Mark N410MR >From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tunnel Access Hole / Fuel Filter >Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 09:19:55 -0700 (PDT) > >I did remove the console to make sure I was not going to hit a fuel line >plus I wanted to to place it as close to the fuel filter as possible. >I took everything apart to install my O2 system. But after 3 hours of >thinking and planning I decided to send it all back and just use a portable >system. Works great, just throw it in when you need it. >I cut the hole at the same time. > >Scott Schmidt >scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com > > >----- Original Message ---- >From: Paul Grimstad <bldgrv10450(at)comcast.net> >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Sent: Friday, May 4, 2007 8:46:14 AM >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tunnel Access Hole / Fuel Filter > > >Scott > >Just curious? Did you cut in the access panel blind or did you have to >remove the console for the install? > >I'm lucky to be at the point where cut-in will be easy. In fact I think I >will go do it right now. > >Paul Grimstad >RV10 #450 fuselage, rudder controls and party planner >Portland, OR 97219 > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Scott Schmidt >To: RV-10 List >Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 11:00 AM >Subject: RV10-List: Tunnel Access Hole / Fuel Filter > > >Sorry, I took so long to post this picture. Here is a shot of the access >hole I cut into the tunnel to check fuel filter. >With the throttle quadrant I have it is much more difficult to gain access >from the top. > >Scott Schmidt >scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com>
Subject: Dash Cover
Date: May 04, 2007
I used black vinyl and used double sided carpet tape to hold it down it down. Mark N410MR >From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: RV-10 List >Subject: RV10-List: Dash Cover >Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 09:22:20 -0700 (PDT) > >I need to finish the dash cover. How did most of you do yours? I have >been told to use Vinyl and not leather. I guess the leather will shrink. >Did you glue directly to the aluminum or to some type of high density foam? > >Scott Schmidt >scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 04, 2007
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Dash Cover
How did you finish the aft edge? Did you use trim or wrap the vinyl over? Larry Mark Ritter wrote: > > I used black vinyl and used double sided carpet tape to hold it down > it down. > > Mark > N410MR > > >> From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com> >> Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> To: RV-10 List >> Subject: RV10-List: Dash Cover >> Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 09:22:20 -0700 (PDT) >> >> I need to finish the dash cover. How did most of you do yours? I >> have been told to use Vinyl and not leather. I guess the leather will >> shrink. Did you glue directly to the aluminum or to some type of >> high density foam? >> >> Scott Schmidt >> scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft > Office > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 04, 2007
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Quickbuild wing and fuse delivery guidance
Van's advised that I would need to do the same thing with the Empennage, however Fed Ex did deliver within 3 days and dropped it off IN my garage. I never touched a thing until the driver left. No noticeable dings on the boxes. I feared I would not be able to move the boxes, I never thought Fed Ex would do it for me. The shipping price was $100 less than Van's quoted too- liftgate and delivery included. I can only give praise to Van's and Fed Ex Freight for my shipping. Call FedEx freight ask if they'll deliver it for you, may be an excessive weight issue but it's only a call- worse they can say is no. Another option is have a moving company do it for you. Pascal #720 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com> Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 11:07 AM Subject: RV10-List: Quickbuild wing and fuse delivery guidance > > I ordered RV-10 quickbuild wing and fuselage kits which Vans is ready to > crate and ship. They offer shipment via FedEx freight but advise that I > will need to arrange for pickup of the crates from the local depot or > offloading of the truck myself. Given the size and weight of these crates > this is obviously problematic. > > How have other dealt with delivery of their QB kits? > > I have never had to deal with deliveries of this nature and so this is new > territory for me. > > I do not have a vehicle capable transporting these crates and I am > considering renting a 16 ft flatbed truck and making several trips to the > depot so that I can better arrange for help. But as others have been > through this already, I wanted to see if anyone has any guidance on this > to > offer. > > Thank you in advance for any suggestions. > > Best Regards, > Patrick ONeill > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Quickbuild wing and fuse delivery guidance
Date: May 04, 2007
I used Tony Partain. His driver delivered my QB wings, fuse and finish kit almost to my door (My driveway is long and winds through some trees so his trailer wouldn't make it all the way to my garage.) The trailer was low to the ground and we easily off loaded the wings, fuse and other crates onto an ATV trailer which I pulled to the garage with my ATV. Delivery almost to my door and help unloading was $2701.00. I live near Milwaukee, WI. Dave Leikam 40496 QB wings ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com> Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 12:07 PM Subject: RV10-List: Quickbuild wing and fuse delivery guidance > > I ordered RV-10 quickbuild wing and fuselage kits which Vans is ready to > crate and ship. They offer shipment via FedEx freight but advise that I > will need to arrange for pickup of the crates from the local depot or > offloading of the truck myself. Given the size and weight of these crates > this is obviously problematic. > > How have other dealt with delivery of their QB kits? > > I have never had to deal with deliveries of this nature and so this is new > territory for me. > > I do not have a vehicle capable transporting these crates and I am > considering renting a 16 ft flatbed truck and making several trips to the > depot so that I can better arrange for help. But as others have been > through this already, I wanted to see if anyone has any guidance on this > to > offer. > > Thank you in advance for any suggestions. > > Best Regards, > Patrick ONeill > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Lenhardt" <av8or(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Quickbuild wing and fuse delivery guidance
Date: May 04, 2007
The empennage kit size and weight is nothing compared to the QB Wings and Fuse. Check the differences on Vans website. Link: http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/weights.pdf I'd check with FedEx to see if they would deliver and how much it would cost. They would deliver my computer equipment only if we could off-load the truck (ie. fork lift) and there was an extra charge for residential delivery. I would NOT recommend a moving company!!! They would not take the necessary care of the cargo and just try to get money from a damage claim. I worked for a moving company in a former life. I forgot to mention in my original post that I saved a nice sum of money with Partain's delivery too. Both of the aforementioned (FedEx or Moving Co) must still have the parts crated. John Lenhardt #40262 Roanoke, VA ----- Original Message ----- From: Pascal To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:38 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Quickbuild wing and fuse delivery guidance Van's advised that I would need to do the same thing with the Empennage, however Fed Ex did deliver within 3 days and dropped it off IN my garage. I never touched a thing until the driver left. No noticeable dings on the boxes. I feared I would not be able to move the boxes, I never thought Fed Ex would do it for me. The shipping price was $100 less than Van's quoted too- liftgate and delivery included. I can only give praise to Van's and Fed Ex Freight for my shipping. Call FedEx freight ask if they'll deliver it for you, may be an excessive weight issue but it's only a call- worse they can say is no. Another option is have a moving company do it for you. Pascal #720 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Lycoming IO540 engine mounts
From: "KiloPapa" <kilopapa(at)antelecom.net>
Date: May 04, 2007
Are all four of the engine mount ears of the small ear type? To clarify, if one had an engine from an airframe which used the large mounts would a total of 4 small ear mounts be needed? In the experience of the list, what has the availability of used small ear mounts been? Also, do the C4B5 540's have the crank counterweights for the CS prop as the normal configuration? Thanks, Kevin 40494 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110937#110937 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)suddenlink.net>
Subject: Re: Lycoming IO540 engine mounts
Date: May 05, 2007
If anyone is short a single small engine mount ear I have one available. My buddy, Terry Cole, who passed away while building an RV-10 had a big stack of misc. engine parts from multiple engines that he acquired over the past 10 years and in going through multiple boxes one of the IO-540 small ears was found. Russ Daves N710RV - 40044 First Flight 7/28/06 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 05, 2007
From: <roy.debbie(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Rv10 project for sale
I have decided to sale my rv10 project and have the following items for sale: Quick build wings and fuselage..un-touched, finish kit...un-touched, New (not re-built) Lyc IO540 engine assembled by Barrett with 9:1 comp. and 270HP...pickled and still in shipping crate, tail kit with horizontal stab., rudder and elevators completed, two Chelton screens still in shipping boxes. The kit is located in Arkansas. If interested contact my off line. Roy ---- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Date: May 05, 2007
Subject: Re: Dash Cover
I bought Glare Shield vinyl and Glare Shield edge trim from Cleveland Aircraft Tool. _http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/_ (http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/) The black vinyl has a dull finish which does not reflect the sun glare. I glued it down with 3M Super 77 and finished the exposed edges (around hand holds and defrost fan) with black Sikaflex. Pictures attached. -Jim 40134 In a message dated 5/4/2007 12:25:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com writes: I need to finish the dash cover. How did most of you do yours? I have been told to use Vinyl and not leather. I guess the leather will shrink. Did you glue directly to the aluminum or to some type of high density foam? Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Lycoming IO540 engine mounts
Date: May 05, 2007
I would like to gather opinions on two topics, now that I am getting close to having to do both of them. Where to place the magnetometer's, yes I will have two. I built a shelf in front of the first bulkhead behind the baggage compartment bulkhead, but I am having second thoughts and want some opinions. I am thinking about putting them out in the wingtips, first forward bay inboard. Second, what are y'all using on the top of the wings in the walk area (anti slip) Any opinions are appreciated. Rene' N423CF 40322 Finish kit...or something like that 801-721-6080 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com>
Subject: Quickbuild wing and fuse delivery guidance
Date: May 05, 2007
Larry, I had seen that photo on your site before but did not quite understand it at first. I thought that was a mighty fancy crate interior! Of course it all makes sense now. With regard to wing cradles, is there a preference for the carpet strap variety versus a fixed stand? (Like this one linked to from the Partain page: http://www.smittysrv.com/more_stuff.asp?ID=380 ) Best Regards, Patrick #715 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 1:32 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Quickbuild wing and fuse delivery guidance Another vote for Partain. My father in law, uncle, my 8 year old son and I were easily able to unload with the help of the driver. <http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Construct/Log/Wings/Unload/index.html> You might want to start working on a wing stand to store the QB wings. <http://lrosen.nerv10.com/tips.html> -- Larry Rosen RV-10 #356 http://lrosen.nerv10.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com>
Subject: Quickbuild wing and fuse delivery guidance
Date: May 05, 2007
I was told the same, but figured the emp crate was light enough that I could grab a neighbor and at least be able to offload it into the driveway. They did sent a liftgate which helped and the driver did assist. But FedEx was quite fast. 2 day delivery, which is also what Van's quoted for the QB crates. 6 days from order receipt by vans to crate in the driveway. I could not believe the price, $146 for 2-day shipping of that 200+ lbs emp crate. They want $1600 for the QB's. But given the size of these one's I don't think the same trick would work. It's not feasible to get 5 friends to hang out during a workday waiting for the FedEx delivery window. Best Regards, Patrick #715 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 7:38 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Quickbuild wing and fuse delivery guidance Van's advised that I would need to do the same thing with the Empennage, however Fed Ex did deliver within 3 days and dropped it off IN my garage. I never touched a thing until the driver left. No noticeable dings on the boxes. I feared I would not be able to move the boxes, I never thought Fed Ex would do it for me. The shipping price was $100 less than Van's quoted too- liftgate and delivery included. I can only give praise to Van's and Fed Ex Freight for my shipping. Call FedEx freight ask if they'll deliver it for you, may be an excessive weight issue but it's only a call- worse they can say is no. Another option is have a moving company do it for you. Pascal #720 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com> Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 11:07 AM Subject: RV10-List: Quickbuild wing and fuse delivery guidance > --> > > I ordered RV-10 quickbuild wing and fuselage kits which Vans is ready > to crate and ship. They offer shipment via FedEx freight but advise > that I will need to arrange for pickup of the crates from the local > depot or offloading of the truck myself. Given the size and weight of > these crates this is obviously problematic. > > How have other dealt with delivery of their QB kits? > > I have never had to deal with deliveries of this nature and so this is > new territory for me. > > I do not have a vehicle capable transporting these crates and I am > considering renting a 16 ft flatbed truck and making several trips to > the depot so that I can better arrange for help. But as others have > been through this already, I wanted to see if anyone has any guidance > on this to offer. > > Thank you in advance for any suggestions. > > Best Regards, > Patrick ONeill > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "KiloPapa" <kilopapa(at)antelecom.net>
Subject: Re: Quickbuild wing and fuse delivery guidance
Date: May 05, 2007
In my experience the carpet works just fine. It is self-adjusting and the wing settles in and is well supported after the spar is resting flush with the support at the other end. Make sure you pin the spar to the support so it can't slide off. I used the design in common use and posted on many builder sites. A diagram with dimensions gleaned from one of the builder's sites (sorry for the lack of proper credit) is attached as is my version of it. Kevin 40494 tail/empennage > With regard to wing cradles, is there a preference for the carpet strap > variety versus a fixed stand? (Like this one linked to from the Partain > page: http://www.smittysrv.com/more_stuff.asp?ID=380 ) > > Best Regards, > Patrick #715 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Date: May 05, 2007
Subject: Re: Dash Cover
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Return-path: From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com Full-name: JSMcGrew Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 08:55:23 EDT Subject: Re: RV10-List: Dash Cover MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part2_bd9.15d12d82.336dd8bb_boundary" --part2_bd9.15d12d82.336dd8bb_boundary Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1178369720" -------------------------------1178369720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I bought Glare Shield vinyl and Glare Shield edge trim from Cleveland Aircraft Tool. _http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/_ (http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/) The black vinyl has a dull finish which does not reflect the sun glare. I glued it down with 3M Super 77 and finished the exposed edges (around hand holds and defrost fan) with black Sikaflex. Pictures attached. -Jim 40134 In a message dated 5/4/2007 12:25:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com writes: I need to finish the dash cover. How did most of you do yours? I have been told to use Vinyl and not leather. I guess the leather will shrink. Did you glue directly to the aluminum or to some type of high density foam? Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------1178369720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I bought Glare Shield vinyl and Glare Shield edge trim from Cleveland Aircraft Tool. http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/ href="http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/">http://www.cleavelandtoolstore. com/ The black vinyl has a dull finish which does not reflect the sun glare. I glued it down with 3M Super 77 and finished the exposed edges (around hand holds and defrost fan) with black Sikaflex. Pictures attached.

-Jim

40134

In a message dated 5/4/2007 12:25:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com writes:

< FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face="Times New Roman" color=# 000000 size=3>
I need to finish the dash cover.  How did most of you do yours? I have been told to use Vinyl and not leather. I guess the leather will shrink.  Did you glue directly to th e aluminum or to some type of high density foam?

Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com

See what's free at http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000 503" href="http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503" target="_blan k">AOL.com.
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lycoming IO540 engine mounts
From: "bcondrey" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Date: May 05, 2007
Kevin, Short answer is yes. Longer answer is that the "4" as the second digit in the suffix specifies the counterweight configuration, so the C4B5 has the same counterweight configuration as the D4A5 engine. Bob #40105 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=111065#111065 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Door latches
Date: May 06, 2007
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
I guess if there is a mistake to make - I will make it! For those yet to do the latches - use the small offcuts from the racks to position the holes per Randy/Tim - you will need 4 holes per pocket - the holes will need to be enlarged as Tim suggests - be REAL carful when drilling the holes and enlarging them. It does not take much to punch a hole through the outer door skin (-you know how I know ;-<). Better to use a step drill. After all this build time, I still cannot master hand drilling anything 1/2" or greater. The bit seems to bight (especially glass stuff) and rip right into the material. A step drill obvioulsy avoids this, but not often practical. Any hints/tips appreciated. cheers Ron -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Tim Olson Sent: Fri 04/05/2007 20:59 Subject: Re: RV10-List: Door latches Hi Ron, Are you referring to how the 2 racks just can't be assembled and still fit in the pocket? I see you already found the answer on my site to your question, but I just want to verify that's the problem. If so, what I did was install the first few parts, and then basically install the racks and last parts after they were in the door pocket. It wasn't the most fun but it worked. Also, those holes where the latch pins go needed to be opened up quite a bit to freely allow the straight pin/cotter pin arrangement to still fit through. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying McGANN, Ron wrote: > > G'day all, > > I've done an archive search on this and found the identical problem > posed by Rob Kermanj back in 2005. Unfortunately no response (I think > listers are waaaay too liberal with Do Not Arch. . . and MUCH useful > info is lost). > > My door latch racks have been cut precisley as dimensioned in the plans, > but they are almost 1/8" too long relative to the latch pocket. The > door latch assy will therefore not fit into the pocket so that the holes > for the rods can be marked. Like Rob, I will likely need to put 4 holes > in the pocket to allow full travel of the racks. Is this normal, or is > there another solution?? Trimming the length of the racks will get very > close to the holes in the ends. > > Thanks in advance > Ron > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lyle Peterson" <lyleap(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Blaine Aviation Weekend
Date: May 05, 2007
This is coming very soon but it should be a great fly-in. EAA Chapter 237 is having a fly-in pancake breakfast and lunch at Anoka County Airport in Blaine, MN on May 19th and 20th Chapter 237's Famous Pancake Breakfast with sausage and beverage runs from 7a.m. to noon and lunch of hamburgers, hot dogs and chili runs until 4p.m. There are two really great aviation museums on the airport. Golden Wings Museum has a collection of beautifully restored vintage airplanes that includes five trimotors. American Wings Air Museum has a collection of warbirds from WWII to Dessert Storm. They also have a Wright Flyer replica, an original 1911 Steco biplane plus many other exhibits. There was a Swift, an Ercoupe, a Luscombe T8-F plus a lot of other vintage airplanes, warbirds and the usual later model airplanes at last year's event. There will be a Hangar Dance Saturday evening with the Sights and Sounds of Dave Andrews Big Band. This has been a lot of fun for everyone that attended in past years. More can be found at www.eaachapter237.org Thank you, Lyle Peterson President, EAA Chapter 237 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 06, 2007
Subject: Re: James Cowling
From: evmeg(at)snowcrest.net
Anybody using the James Cowl on their 10 yet? Besides looking a bit sexier, I am wondering if gives the added benefits of the 2 place versions. On the smaller airplanes it adds a few knots of speed by reducing cooling drag. On the 4 place it may also help with the hot tunnel syndrome as there seems to be some merit in the argument that the airflow through the cowl is a major part of the problem. At $1200.00 it does not seem to expensive if it solves problems.....I dont know how much the standard cowling costs. There is obviously an offset in cost if I just dont order that with my finish kit. So.....anybody tried it yet? Cheers... Evan --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using SnowCrest WebMail. http://www.snowcrest.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)cox.net>
Subject: James Cowling
Date: May 06, 2007
I'm interested in the James Cowl. I sent a note to them however about the 14" spinner required with this cowl. The Hartzell spinner, at $1400, cost more than the cowl itself. I asked them if they could do a Van's like 14" fiberglass spinner kit to replace the ridiculously overpriced Hartzell spinner. They said no. Carl Froehlich RV-8A (320 hrs) RV-10 (wings) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of evmeg(at)snowcrest.net Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 11:53 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: James Cowling Anybody using the James Cowl on their 10 yet? Besides looking a bit sexier, I am wondering if gives the added benefits of the 2 place versions. On the smaller airplanes it adds a few knots of speed by reducing cooling drag. On the 4 place it may also help with the hot tunnel syndrome as there seems to be some merit in the argument that the airflow through the cowl is a major part of the problem. At $1200.00 it does not seem to expensive if it solves problems.....I dont know how much the standard cowling costs. There is obviously an offset in cost if I just dont order that with my finish kit. So.....anybody tried it yet? Cheers... Evan --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using SnowCrest WebMail. http://www.snowcrest.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 06, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: James Cowling
There is one RV-10 in Canada that is flying with the James Cowl, but the owner/builder Davis Corrigan is not active on any of the lists and hasn't posted any information regarding performance to my knowledge. Here is a clip from the James Yahoolist: Hi Will. I will get you some stats after I get used to this hot rod,I only have 3 hours on it so far and it is a beauty. I want to thank you folks at James Aircraft you were a pleasure to work with. We were climbing at 2200 feet per minute with full fuel and two adults over 400 total crew weight. It is very fast compared to my Cherokee pa 140. You can use any info you want for your web page or for any thing you want use it for. Cheers David Corrigan -------------------------------------- Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:41 PM Subject: Article for COPA magazine First RV-10 to fly in Canada takes off in Charlottetown By Barry Martin The first Vans RV-10 to fly in Canada took to the air on January 18, 2007 from the Charlottetown Airport on PEI. After approximately 16 months of building and, much to the delight of Owner and Builder David Corrigan and co-builder Deryck Hickox, the RV-10 lifted off around noon in clear skies and light winds, although the temperature was a little cool, being around minus 5 degrees C. With the IO-540 purring like a kitten, the RV-10 was through circuit height before reaching the end of the runway. Test pilot Glen McLarty took the RV to 4000 feet over the airport to do the initial tests then headed north of the airport to finish the first round of tests. In communication with the ground crew, Glen relayed that the plane flew straight and level even with his hands off the stick. The RV-10 is equipped with a Lycoming IO-540 that was rebuilt by Aerotec in Halifax and has a MT 3 blade propeller up front. The instrument panel is well equipped with an AF-2500 engine monitor, Garmin 430, Garmin SL-30, PS Engineering Audio Panel, Garmin GTX 327 Transponder, ATD-300 Traffic Watch and a TruTrak Autopilot. As all the instruments are electrically run, there is also a back-up battery. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ evmeg(at)snowcrest.net wrote: > > Anybody using the James Cowl on their 10 yet? Besides looking a bit > sexier, I am wondering if gives the added benefits of the 2 place > versions. On the smaller airplanes it adds a few knots of speed by > reducing cooling drag. On the 4 place it may also help with the hot tunnel > syndrome as there seems to be some merit in the argument that the airflow > through the cowl is a major part of the problem. At $1200.00 it does not > seem to expensive if it solves problems.....I dont know how much the > standard cowling costs. There is obviously an offset in cost if I just > dont order that with my finish kit. So.....anybody tried it yet? > Cheers... > Evan > > > --------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using SnowCrest WebMail. > http://www.snowcrest.net > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 06, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: James Cowling
Here's a copy of 2 images that were posted on the James list of the Canadian RV-10 w/James cowl Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gommone7(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Hugo Rv10#40456-seats
Date: May 06, 2007
Hi all's. Just recive the seats from Oregon Aero,I will like some opinions,they where able to meet almost all my designs .Great company,they do all my extras with no extra charges. They are really profesionals Hugo ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gommone7(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Hugo Rv10#40456-seats
Date: May 06, 2007
Here the pictures ,sorry Hugo ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 06, 2007
From: Aaron Gleixner <aarongleixner(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Engine Mount and Propeller Impacts on Airframe Vibration
I am at the point of ordering my engine and prop for the RV-10 and need to make a decision. My RV-8A has an O-360-A1A with Hartzell CS Prop, and the airframe vibrates in flight more than I would like, so I want to make sure it will be better on the RV-10. I have three questions that I'm hoping someone can answer: 1) I've heard that Lord engine mounts do a better job of damping vibration than the mounts that Van's sells in the FWF kit for the IO-540. Anyone have experience with this on the RV-10? The Lord mounts cost more, but if they improve vibration, the extra cost would be worth it. 2) Is there any back-to-back data on the Hartzell 2 blade vs MT 3 blade? I saw Van's comparison, but it wasn't really back-to-back. Do you really loose 5 kts with the MT 3 blade? Does anyone have a subjective feel for the vibration difference between the two? 3) For those flying the IO-540 with the Hartzell 2 blade, how good or bad is the vibration level? Do you ever find yourself wishing you had traded the 5 kts and lower cost for the lower vibration of the MT prop? Aaron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Flying RV10 tire wear
Date: May 06, 2007
For flying 10s how is the tire wear? If you could supply indicated tire wear and total time/approx. number of landings between tire changes it would be helpful. When building my Glastar we followed the book procedure for toe in and it caused toe in of 3 degrees per wheel which caused significant uneven tire wear. We were able to fix this by rotating the gear legs slightly and up sizing the gear retainer bolt. I know that the toe in on the 10 is a given but it can be changed if the tires are wearing rapidly. That's the reason for the question. Anyone with significant wear can email me off line and supply a phone number to talk. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 06, 2007
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Engine Mount and Propeller Impacts on Airframe Vibration
Aaron; Great questions! Search in the vansairforce.net forum and the archives for other answers, but from what I recall since, I myself asked these questions here is the responses. Consider getting the blade on your RV-8 balanced, may make a world of difference. 2) * Is there any back-to-back data on the Hartzell 2 blade vs MT 3 blade? I followed up with the builder of the 3 blade of this test last year- here is the fact of the results: Just because an engine is stamped 310 hp doesn't mean it is producing that hp. allegedely mine dynoed 310 hp @ 2800 rpm. I don't run it at 2800 rpm. It might even be 350 hp at 3000 rpm. I've limited it to 2700 RPM because that is the propeller limitation. When Van and I flew side by side at 8,000' and WOT, the fuel flows were within .3 gph and mp was within .5", so I believe we were actually matched. The factory a/s indicator read 7 mph faster, but our GPS were within 1 kt of each other. I have 2 independent a/s indicators and they were equal, and I have had them calibrated to 20,000. I can always count on 166-170 knots TAS. I assure you if I were 12 mph slower I wouldn't settle for it. *Does anyone have a subjective feel for the vibration difference between the two? We notice we are not fatigued at the end of the trip as we have been on our other airplanes over the years (Rv-4, RV-6, Kitfox, Bonanza, C-182). The only annoyance is getting the lower cowl on and off, but after the 1st 100 hours it doesn't need to come off as much. No regrets here. :) 3) I gather you'll get a whole lot of information on this. Tim olsen has his blade balanced and I believe he even mentioned why he chose the 2 blade- check out his great site (although as history shows, I guarantee he'll respond in detail for you anyway) http://www.myrv10.com My experience, as I was blessed to get a ride in the 3 blade MT RV-10, is the comfort is far more important to me, (and my family) than any speed I may get- so I see a 1-2% increase, at 177kts I am quite happy with a smooth running airplane, and as the builders I have spoken to who own the 3 blade each comments on the comfort flying and after landing (in the form of fatique). I just started looking at the plans but I knew from the start that I was going 3 blade. What is more important to you? do YOU want that extra few knots or that extra comfort to maybe go a little further on those cross countrys without the added fatigue? is your intention to stay local? than 3 blades will get you higher sooner than a 2 blade, and cruise is rather insignificant in the big scheme of things anyway. Oh and is cost a factor? more to buy that MT, let alone an Aerocomposite prop than a Hartzell. So it does come down to is comfort and climbing performance worth the extra bucks? Pascal ----- Original Message ----- From: Aaron Gleixner To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 11:10 AM Subject: RV10-List: Engine Mount and Propeller Impacts on Airframe Vibration I am at the point of ordering my engine and prop for the RV-10 and need to make a decision. My RV-8A has an O-360-A1A with Hartzell CS Prop, and the airframe vibrates in flight more than I would like, so I want to make sure it will be better on the RV-10. I have three questions that I'm hoping someone can answer: 1) I've heard that Lord engine mounts do a better job of damping vibration than the mounts that Van's sells in the FWF kit for the IO-540. Anyone have experience with this on the RV-10? The Lord mounts cost more, but if they improve vibration, the extra cost would be worth it. 2) I saw Van's comparison, but it wasn't really back-to-back. Do you really loose 5 kts with the MT 3 blade? Does anyone have a subjective feel for the vibration difference between the two? 3) For those flying the IO-540 with the Hartzell 2 blade, how good or bad is the vibration level? Do you ever find yourself wishing you had traded the 5 kts and lower cost for the lower vibration of the MT prop? Aaron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com>
Subject: Flying RV10 tire wear
Date: May 06, 2007
I have 92 hours on my RV-10 and 87 landings over the last nine months. Slight wear on outboard side of mains. Will rotate them this summer and hopefully get another 100+ hours before replacing them. Mark N410MR >From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV10-List: Flying RV10 tire wear >Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 11:11:29 -0700 > > >For flying 10s how is the tire wear? If you could supply indicated tire >wear >and total time/approx. number of landings between tire changes it would be >helpful. When building my Glastar we followed the book procedure for toe in >and it caused toe in of 3 degrees per wheel which caused significant uneven >tire wear. We were able to fix this by rotating the gear legs slightly and >up sizing the gear retainer bolt. I know that the toe in on the 10 is a >given but it can be changed if the tires are wearing rapidly. That's the >reason for the question. Anyone with significant wear can email me off line >and supply a phone number to talk. > > _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 06, 2007
From: PJ Seipel <seipel(at)seznam.cz>
Subject: Re: James Cowling
I'm waiting on the James cowl that accommodates the Barrett cold air induction. The last email I got from Will said that they're waiting on feedback from the few that they've sold before they sell any more. Hopefully those that have them will be flying soon. PJ RV-10 #40032 evmeg(at)snowcrest.net wrote: > > Anybody using the James Cowl on their 10 yet? Besides looking a bit > sexier, I am wondering if gives the added benefits of the 2 place > versions. On the smaller airplanes it adds a few knots of speed by > reducing cooling drag. On the 4 place it may also help with the hot tunnel > syndrome as there seems to be some merit in the argument that the airflow > through the cowl is a major part of the problem. At $1200.00 it does not > seem to expensive if it solves problems.....I dont know how much the > standard cowling costs. There is obviously an offset in cost if I just > dont order that with my finish kit. So.....anybody tried it yet? > Cheers... > Evan > > > --------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using SnowCrest WebMail. > http://www.snowcrest.net > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 06, 2007
Subject: James Cowling
From: evmeg(at)snowcrest.net
> Really!....I had no idea! thanks for the heads up on that one....Goes to show you that the rule holds true about deviatiating from the plans... small change=BIG price difference. There must be a reasonable solution to this one. Seems too simple to me. Evan > > I'm interested in the James Cowl. I sent a note to them however about the > 14" spinner required with this cowl. The Hartzell spinner, at $1400, cost > more than the cowl itself. I asked them if they could do a Van's like 14" > fiberglass spinner kit to replace the ridiculously overpriced Hartzell > spinner. They said no. > > Carl Froehlich > RV-8A (320 hrs) > RV-10 (wings) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of > evmeg(at)snowcrest.net > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 11:53 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: James Cowling > > > Anybody using the James Cowl on their 10 yet? Besides looking a bit > sexier, I am wondering if gives the added benefits of the 2 place > versions. On the smaller airplanes it adds a few knots of speed by > reducing cooling drag. On the 4 place it may also help with the hot tunnel > syndrome as there seems to be some merit in the argument that the airflow > through the cowl is a major part of the problem. At $1200.00 it does not > seem to expensive if it solves problems.....I dont know how much the > standard cowling costs. There is obviously an offset in cost if I just > dont order that with my finish kit. So.....anybody tried it yet? > Cheers... > Evan > > > --------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using SnowCrest WebMail. > http://www.snowcrest.net > > --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using SnowCrest WebMail. http://www.snowcrest.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 06, 2007
Subject: James Cowling
From: evmeg(at)snowcrest.net
> Really!....I had no idea! thanks for the heads up on that one....Goes to show you that the rule holds true about deviatiating from the plans... small change=BIG price difference. There must be a reasonable solution to this one. Seems too simple to me. Evan > > I'm interested in the James Cowl. I sent a note to them however about the > 14" spinner required with this cowl. The Hartzell spinner, at $1400, cost > more than the cowl itself. I asked them if they could do a Van's like 14" > fiberglass spinner kit to replace the ridiculously overpriced Hartzell > spinner. They said no. > > Carl Froehlich > RV-8A (320 hrs) > RV-10 (wings) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of > evmeg(at)snowcrest.net > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 11:53 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: James Cowling > > > Anybody using the James Cowl on their 10 yet? Besides looking a bit > sexier, I am wondering if gives the added benefits of the 2 place > versions. On the smaller airplanes it adds a few knots of speed by > reducing cooling drag. On the 4 place it may also help with the hot tunnel > syndrome as there seems to be some merit in the argument that the airflow > through the cowl is a major part of the problem. At $1200.00 it does not > seem to expensive if it solves problems.....I dont know how much the > standard cowling costs. There is obviously an offset in cost if I just > dont order that with my finish kit. So.....anybody tried it yet? > Cheers... > Evan > > > --------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using SnowCrest WebMail. > http://www.snowcrest.net > > --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using SnowCrest WebMail. http://www.snowcrest.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 06, 2007
Subject: James Cowling
From: evmeg(at)snowcrest.net
> Really!....I had no idea! thanks for the heads up on that one....Goes to show you that the rule holds true about deviatiating from the plans... small change=BIG price difference. There must be a reasonable solution to this one. Seems too simple to me. Evan > > I'm interested in the James Cowl. I sent a note to them however about the > 14" spinner required with this cowl. The Hartzell spinner, at $1400, cost > more than the cowl itself. I asked them if they could do a Van's like 14" > fiberglass spinner kit to replace the ridiculously overpriced Hartzell > spinner. They said no. > > Carl Froehlich > RV-8A (320 hrs) > RV-10 (wings) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of > evmeg(at)snowcrest.net > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 11:53 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: James Cowling > > > Anybody using the James Cowl on their 10 yet? Besides looking a bit > sexier, I am wondering if gives the added benefits of the 2 place > versions. On the smaller airplanes it adds a few knots of speed by > reducing cooling drag. On the 4 place it may also help with the hot tunnel > syndrome as there seems to be some merit in the argument that the airflow > through the cowl is a major part of the problem. At $1200.00 it does not > seem to expensive if it solves problems.....I dont know how much the > standard cowling costs. There is obviously an offset in cost if I just > dont order that with my finish kit. So.....anybody tried it yet? > Cheers... > Evan > > > --------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using SnowCrest WebMail. > http://www.snowcrest.net > > --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using SnowCrest WebMail. http://www.snowcrest.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: James Cowling
Date: May 06, 2007
From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
I bought the james cowl, and ordered the MT 3blade prop with the 14" spinner, and I'm pretty sure the price for the larger spinner was the same. cj -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of evmeg(at)snowcrest.net Sent: Sun 5/6/2007 4:34 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: James Cowling > Really!....I had no idea! thanks for the heads up on that one....Goes to show you that the rule holds true about deviatiating from the plans... small change=BIG price difference. There must be a reasonable solution to this one. Seems too simple to me. Evan > > I'm interested in the James Cowl. I sent a note to them however about the > 14" spinner required with this cowl. The Hartzell spinner, at $1400, cost > more than the cowl itself. I asked them if they could do a Van's like 14" > fiberglass spinner kit to replace the ridiculously overpriced Hartzell > spinner. They said no. > > Carl Froehlich > RV-8A (320 hrs) > RV-10 (wings) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of > evmeg(at)snowcrest.net > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 11:53 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: James Cowling > > > Anybody using the James Cowl on their 10 yet? Besides looking a bit > sexier, I am wondering if gives the added benefits of the 2 place > versions. On the smaller airplanes it adds a few knots of speed by > reducing cooling drag. On the 4 place it may also help with the hot tunnel > syndrome as there seems to be some merit in the argument that the airflow > through the cowl is a major part of the problem. At $1200.00 it does not > seem to expensive if it solves problems.....I dont know how much the > standard cowling costs. There is obviously an offset in cost if I just > dont order that with my finish kit. So.....anybody tried it yet? > Cheers... > Evan > > > --------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using SnowCrest WebMail. > http://www.snowcrest.net > > --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using SnowCrest WebMail. http://www.snowcrest.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Quickbuild wing and fuse delivery guidance
From: "dmaib(at)mac.com" <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Date: May 06, 2007
I found a gentleman that rebuilds warbirds. He patiently and carefully coaxed the leading edge and rib back into shape. He inspected both areas for damage and was satisfied. Re-sealed with proseal, and charged me a whopping $40! -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=111245#111245 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1272_126.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Date: May 07, 2007
Subject: MT 3 blade propeller available for flight testing
Hi All, If anyone flying a RV-10 with a Hartzell propeller is interested in trying the 3 blade MT propeller, I have one available. MT Propeller does not own this propeller. I own the RV-10 MT propeller. I have both a 13" diameter spinner, and a 14" diameter spinner for this propeller. The propeller is available at the Oxnard Airport (OXR) in Oxnard, California. NW of Los Angeles, CA. Also, if someone with a Hartzell 2 blade is interested in doing some cruise performance comparison flight testing, I would be willing to work with you to make it happen. The initial testing would be with your Hartzell propeller on your aircraft in its present configuration. The 3 Blade MT Propeller will be a direct bolt on installation for a cowl with the standard 1 1/2" cowl spacing. Jim Ayers Less Drag Products, Inc. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Date: May 07, 2007
Subject: Fwd: Van's sheet metal work shop...
-----------------------------1178537121-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Avionics Wiring: SL30/40 to PMA8000
Date: May 07, 2007
Many thanks to Ted and Tim for the wiring info. Ted's diagram answers a lot of questions for wiring this particular setup. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Flying RV10 tire wear
Date: May 07, 2007
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
In 180 hours I have almost 0 tire wear. Build it per plans and you will be fine. Randy 40006 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 11:11 AM Subject: RV10-List: Flying RV10 tire wear For flying 10s how is the tire wear? If you could supply indicated tire wear and total time/approx. number of landings between tire changes it would be helpful. When building my Glastar we followed the book procedure for toe in and it caused toe in of 3 degrees per wheel which caused significant uneven tire wear. We were able to fix this by rotating the gear legs slightly and up sizing the gear retainer bolt. I know that the toe in on the 10 is a given but it can be changed if the tires are wearing rapidly. That's the reason for the question. Anyone with significant wear can email me off line and supply a phone number to talk. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Usable Dynon Viewing Angle
Date: May 07, 2007
From: "Bobby J. Hughes" <bhughes(at)qnsi.net>
Does anyone know if the Dynon D100 EFIS is usable by the pilot if it was installed on the copilot side? Looking for a backup with AOA. I am sure the AOA bar would not be usable but it does have audio. Bobby J Hughes ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: MT 3 blade propeller available for flight testing
Date: May 07, 2007
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
Jim, I to sure hope someone takes you up on your offer soon. I am 12 months out from being able to offer my -10 for testing but I am "just up the street" from you at SBP. There is a builder getting close in SMX but I am not sure he is using the Hartzell BA prop. There is also a builder in SBP that is 4-5 months out. I wonder if he would be interested? Yoo hoo; Jearl? It's nice to have this wave of -10's about to hit the run up area. Robin Marks From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LessDragProd(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 10:59 PM Subject: RV10-List: MT 3 blade propeller available for flight testing Hi All, If anyone flying a RV-10 with a Hartzell propeller is interested in trying the 3 blade MT propeller, I have one available. MT Propeller does not own this propeller. I own the RV-10 MT propeller. I have both a 13" diameter spinner, and a 14" diameter spinner for this propeller. The propeller is available at the Oxnard Airport (OXR) in Oxnard, California. NW of Los Angeles, CA. Also, if someone with a Hartzell 2 blade is interested in doing some cruise performance comparison flight testing, I would be willing to work with you to make it happen. The initial testing would be with your Hartzell propeller on your aircraft in its present configuration. The 3 Blade MT Propeller will be a direct bolt on installation for a cowl with the standard 1 1/2" cowl spacing. Jim Ayers Less Drag Products, Inc. ________________________________ See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 07, 2007
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MT 3 blade propeller available for flight testing
One interesting thing about buying an MT is clearing customs. I bought mine from Jim at Less Drag, great guy and delivered right on time as promised. It is a pretty thing of mechanical beauty. He started this thread about trying an MT prop. Mine came fully assembled from Germany to the Fedex international terrminal here in Las Vegas. Jim told me there would be a fee to bail the prop out of customs and he was pretty close 150 to 200 dollars. I assumed it was for import duty fee...HA!!!! When I went to customs I was greeted by the biggest A**hole I ever ran into in government service who told me he wasn't gpoing to deal with me directly I had to hire a broker...WTF is a broker? So he gives me a little "referal" sheet to pick one from (read kickback here). I find the closest one to the airport give tham a call and head over...sign a contract and limited power of attorney and give them my credit card. Two hours later my card is charged $230 for this company to take the same paperwork I gave them over to the same jerk in customs for him to stamp and inspect the item if he likes, which he didn't and release my prop from Fedex. FWIW for personal use items there is no duty to pay. The broker made $230 for an hours work because the three guys in the customs office are too lazy to go over to Fedex...1/2 mile away and inspect the property which they didn't even do!!! Your mighty tax dollars at work...or not at work...what's next user fees!!! Rick S. 40185 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 07, 2007
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Flying RV10 tire wear
Yeah but your airplane has a Lycoming, not that strange looking Mazda chunk 'O' metal he has collecting dust in his garage. ;) Rick S. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Usable Dynon Viewing Angle
Date: May 07, 2007
Unless the screen is different from the D180 (which I doubt), the viewing angle should be just fine. The AOA bar would be very useable even from that side (requiring the AOA pitot, of course) with the new format they have in their new software coming out soon. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 11:44 AM Subject: RV10-List: Usable Dynon Viewing Angle Does anyone know if the Dynon D100 EFIS is usable by the pilot if it was installed on the copilot side? Looking for a backup with AOA. I am sure the AOA bar would not be usable but it does have audio. Bobby J Hughes ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Cram" <johncram(at)msn.com>
Subject: Lizard Skin insulation
Date: May 07, 2007
This question is for CJ. Did you order their high dollar spray gun or use an alternant. Am thinking about using their stuff. John Cram 40569 QB fuse and wings are here yay!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Usable Dynon Viewing Angle
Date: May 07, 2007
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
Bobby, I was wondering the exact same thing. I may place the Dynon at an slight angle to improve the view. I was thinking of leaving off the mechanical stall warning and using the Dynon with audio. Robin From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:44 AM Subject: RV10-List: Usable Dynon Viewing Angle Does anyone know if the Dynon D100 EFIS is usable by the pilot if it was installed on the copilot side? Looking for a backup with AOA. I am sure the AOA bar would not be usable but it does have audio. Bobby J Hughes ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 07, 2007
Subject: [ Dave Saylor ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Dave Saylor Lists: RV-List,RV10-List Subject: RV-10 Big Oil Door http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Dave@aircraftersllc.com.05.07.2007/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file:

April 23, 2007 - May 07, 2007

RV10-Archive.digest.vol-cf