RV10-Archive.digest.vol-ck
June 16, 2007 - July 06, 2007
> Crows foot wrenches from Sears and adjust for about 1 & 1/2 inch offset.
>
> Actually should have the conversion formulas in the instructions with
> your Torque Wrench.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Bill S
> 7a Ark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel
R.
> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 10:06 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: brake / fuel line fittings nut torque
>
> -->
>
> A set of crows foot wrenches will enable you to do this.
> Dan
> N289DT RV10E E
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 5:32 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: brake / fuel line fittings nut torque
>
>
> I recently bought a torque wrench for sockets. I don't see how it
> would
>
> work on a line fitting. Does this require a different type of torque
> wrench?
>
> JSMcGrew(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>> I think the torque values are listed in my copy of Standard Aircraft
>> Handbook for Mechanics and Technicians. I don't have access to it
>> right now so I can't tell you what it says.
>>
>> I used those values and ended up with some leaks so I tightened them
>> "Just tight enough that it won't leak" and then started the practice
>> of "Just snug it up and check for leaks". With further experience
>> with
>>
>
>
>> a particularly annoying brake line leak, I found "tightening and
>> loosening the nut several times before torquing it helped to achieve
>> a
>>
>
>
>> tight seal". So there is one more comment to add to the list.
>>
>> -Jim
>> 40134
>>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | brake / fuel line fittings nut torque |
From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
The needed pages are Pages 7-6 through 7-12 and 9-19 specifically for
torques on brake and fuel tubing. I have PDFed the needed pages but for
the benefit of the string and tin-can group it is 4.9MB. So, Send me a
request (offline) and I will forward the passage to those with
high-speed bandwidth and open attachment capability.
If you have a spring adjustable torque wrench don't forget to release
the pressure after using the tool... it helps calibration.
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Schlatterer
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 8:49 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: brake / fuel line fittings nut torque
I just noticed on the scan that I had highlighted the fine and coarse
thread
torque tables and the highlight covered up the fine and coarse headings.
Fine thread torque values at the top, coarse in the middle, there is a
big
difference. The AN tubing torque values are on the bottom.
Glad it helped but the best thing to do is get a copy of the AC 43.
It's
cheap from Avery or Spruce.
Bill S
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 7:23 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: brake / fuel line fittings nut torque
That really helps. Thanks for taking the time to scan.
Bill "still prepping for closing up the bottom wing skins" Watson
Bill Schlatterer wrote:
> Hope this sizes correctly. AN torque values at the bottom of
> attachment and also on page 9-19 of AC 43.
>
> ON page 7-8 and 7-9 of AC 43 (Acceptable Methods and Techniques) it
> gives the conversion formulas. Very easy to set up in a spreadsheet.
>
> Shows Crows foot wrench as a "Short Open End Adapter" on pat 7-8
>
> Crows foot wrenches from Sears and adjust for about 1 & 1/2 inch
offset.
>
> Actually should have the conversion formulas in the instructions with
> your Torque Wrench.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Bill S
> 7a Ark
>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> |
Subject: | Rudder Pedal Bearing Blocks - Too tight ain't right |
Bevel the edges of the hole on the bearing blocks and then coat the metal
and the block with BoeLube or Vasoline.
JOhn G.
>From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Rudder Pedal Bearing Blocks - Too tight ain't right
>Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 16:55:07 -0700
>
>
>I am trying to install my rudder pedels WD1006R/L and find that the F1039A
>Rudder pedal bearing blocks fit very tight restricting the movement of the
>pedals which I feel should move quite freely. I have tried to work the
>uncoated ends of the pedels down with a die grinder and some rubbing
>compound, but have not been sucessful in getting them loose so that the
>pedals float freely as they hang. I am very reluctant to try gringing into
>the delrin/nylon blocks as I am afraid of leaving abrasive material behind
>that would make the tighness even worse.
>
>Please give me some suggestions
>
>See you in OSH - hope to meet some of the folks on the list
>[/b]
>
>--------
>OSH '08 or Bust
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118776#118776
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Randy" <brinker(at)suddenlink.net> |
If your like me and don't wan't any more permanent
clutter on you dash or panel, just make provision for a quick disconnect
dash mounted compass. And keep the compass close at hand for emergency
installs. Is there a far anywhere that says this is not acceptable ?
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 1:18 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Wet Compass
>
> Dan,
> I actually think I started this discussion as my panel will have dual
> independent EFIS and three sets of batteries. Why would I need a wet
> compass? Seems from my reading of the discussion the DAR has final say on
> certification but the FAR seems to require one. I figure I will put one in
> (my only round instrument on the panel) and live it and call it my Back Up
> to the third power. No reason to give an insurance company a reason to
> deny a claim.
>
> William
> Speaking of balloons & rockets (part 101) and ultralights, I was flying my
> usual commute today (SBP-BUR-SBP) and came across a large bouquet of
> balloons at 6,200'. Another one at 6,800' and one more on my return trip
> at 4,000. Seems graduation is in full swing.
>
> Robin
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Masys
> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 1:20 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Wet Compass
>
>
> I think it was my post to blame for getting this started. The reason I
> mentioned the question about applicability is that the FAR section on
> instruments (91.205) is entitled:
>
> "Powered civil aircraft with **standard category US airworthiness
> certificates**: [emphasis added] Instrument and equipment requirements."
>
> You be the judge, pay your money and take your chances with the DAR...
>
> -Dan Masys
> #40448
>
> ---- William Curtis wrote:
>>
>> FAR Part 91 -General operating and Flight rules; this deals with
>> operation of personal aircraft in the airspace system and since there is
>> no "experimental" airspace, I'm not sure how it would NOT apply to
>> experimentals. I have to read the article to see what his take on it is.
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
If a compass isn't permanently mounted, I know of no way it can be
properly "swung" or calibrated. There is no way a temporary mount
compass will have any know degree of accuracy. Of course if you don't
intend to have a proper aviation compass and choose to assume your
electronics will always function correctly, I guess you can pretend to
comply with 91.205. With all the choices available for mounting, in
panel, on top of panel, on center post, etc. I don't quite understand
the extreme aversion to meeting the basic instrument requirements.
The B707 (IIRC) had an elegant arrangement with the compass on a
swivel mount, folding under the glare shield when not needed, pivoting
out to top center of the glare shield when desired.
On 6/16/07, Randy wrote:
>
> If your like me and don't wan't any more permanent
> clutter on you dash or panel, just make provision for a quick disconnect
> dash mounted compass. And keep the compass close at hand for emergency
> installs. Is there a far anywhere that says this is not acceptable ?
>
> Randy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 1:18 AM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Wet Compass
>
>
> >
> > Dan,
> > I actually think I started this discussion as my panel will have dual
> > independent EFIS and three sets of batteries. Why would I need a wet
> > compass? Seems from my reading of the discussion the DAR has final say on
> > certification but the FAR seems to require one. I figure I will put one in
> > (my only round instrument on the panel) and live it and call it my Back Up
> > to the third power. No reason to give an insurance company a reason to
> > deny a claim.
> >
> > William
> > Speaking of balloons & rockets (part 101) and ultralights, I was flying my
> > usual commute today (SBP-BUR-SBP) and came across a large bouquet of
> > balloons at 6,200'. Another one at 6,800' and one more on my return trip
> > at 4,000. Seems graduation is in full swing.
> >
> > Robin
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Masys
> > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 1:20 PM
> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Wet Compass
> >
> >
> > I think it was my post to blame for getting this started. The reason I
> > mentioned the question about applicability is that the FAR section on
> > instruments (91.205) is entitled:
> >
> > "Powered civil aircraft with **standard category US airworthiness
> > certificates**: [emphasis added] Instrument and equipment requirements."
> >
> > You be the judge, pay your money and take your chances with the DAR...
> >
> > -Dan Masys
> > #40448
> >
> > ---- William Curtis wrote:
> >>
> >> FAR Part 91 -General operating and Flight rules; this deals with
> >> operation of personal aircraft in the airspace system and since there is
> >> no "experimental" airspace, I'm not sure how it would NOT apply to
> >> experimentals. I have to read the article to see what his take on it is.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Nose Fork Assembly Belleville Washer K2750-O-219 |
The Belleville "cupped" Washer K2750-O-219 for the front fork assembly
is steel. I just took it out of the bag and there is some light rust on
the washers. Nothing that can not be lightly buffed off.
Have those before me primed these washers to prevent them from rusting
in the future?
(Page 46-06 in the plans)
--
Larry Rosen
RV-10 #356
http://lrosen.nerv10.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Bottom wing skin rivets |
From: | "ddnebert" <doug(at)mapcontext.com> |
I'll take that advice. The rivets always turn out nicer with a bucker and a shooter.
--------
RV-10 Builder #40546
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118936#118936
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Duckworks lenses cracking |
Lighting question....
I installed my lights according to instructions - strapping tape, 75
degrees, and all...
The lenses were intact through the entire manufacturing process. I put them
in fine.
Today I was working on the wingtips and needed to remove the light
assemblies and found that every screwhole had cracks.
Anyone else have this issue?
I'm kinda bummed - knowing that subsequent installations will be more
difficult and won't be as tight.
At a minimum, I need to order a new set of lenses...but I think I need some
building advice when it comes to these things......
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Firewall Forward |
Don't be surprised if the AN823-8D and AN822-8D do not turn into the oil
cooler. Mine turned about 3/4 turn. The tool you need is #91395 from Harbor
Freight ($10-20). The set contains a 3/8"-18 NPT tap. Hold the oil cooler in
a vise by the flange and tap up into the hole. Use thick grease on the tap
so that any shavings are trapped in the grease at the flutes. Tap slowly 1/2
forward, then 1/4 back then 1/2 forward again. When satisfied with the depth
of the tap clean the oil cooler threads with cotton buds dipped in acetone.
When finished then rinse the oil cooler internally with mineral spirits.
Fuel lube the AN parts and mount.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> |
I may have discovered something useful today. As I was sanding on my cowl
trying to get the area around the air inlets nice and smooth I kept wishing
I had a nice thin and flexible sanding pad. I am using the 3" wide
sticky-backed rolls of sandpaper so I cut of a 6" long piece and put about 3
or 4 layers of duct tape on the back. Makes a very nice sanding pad. For
some time I have been sticking a short length of the sticky-back sandpaper
to various shapes and sizes of wood scraps but this is my most recent brain
storm. Probably I'm not the only one to discover this but it's still a good
idea.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com> |
Subject: | wing spar attach hardware |
I know this has been talked about before but I could not find much in
the
=93not so=94 archives.
I am on Sec 28 and it is time to mount the forward fuse section to the
mid
fuse section. The plans don=92t say much about the bolts but from the
looks
of it we are supposed to use the actual bolts that attach the wings. I
went
and bought some alternate =BC - 5=94 lag bolts but I cannot find any
9/16=92s
bolts at the usual lowe=92s, depot, ace places. I am also somewhat
hesitant
to use the =BC bolts that I bought cause they will not go through
without
force. Plus the machining on them is nothing like the mil spec ones. I
wonder if it would just be a better idea to buy another set from
Van=92s? I
imagine they aren=92t cheap though (no shipping for me they are 20
minuets
away).
What does Van=92s do with the quickbuild fuse kits? Is your attach
hardware
in them when they come? Do the bolts get marred up at all when you
install
them?
I would appreciate any advice and/or what I did=92s.
Ben Westfall
PDX
#40579 ' Fuse
Geez this thing is getting BIG in a hurry!!
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | RV flyin BOONE, IA |
From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
Dean's plane flew and sounded great, and it was indeed the only flying
RV-10 at Boone. There were several other -10 builders there and the
local folks (Adrian Moses and Lyle Bender) coordinated an RV-10 seminar
for potential new builders. Both of their planes were there but still
quite a ways from the flying stage however.
Thanks for the taxi service Dean!
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ddddsp1(at)juno.com
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 5:53 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV flyin BOONE, IA
Just a brief note on the RV flyin at Boone, IA today. I left KAUH at 7
AM with a fellow builder for KPMV to pick up Bruce Bluhm and Bob
Condrey (a full plane). We arrived at KBNW at 9:00AM and got a FRONT
row seat for the ONLY RV-10 at the show. All you other guys were
either in Canada, Niagra Falls, (TIM O) or too busy. Anyway, Adrian
Moses lead a forum on the RV 10 with BOB C. doing a talk on the kit and
options. It was a great day........little warm and muggy but that is
IOWA. We left at 12:05 and were home in GI, NE at 2 pm. I am now
meeting several fliers at KEAR at 6:30pm for Dinner then we will fly
home. I flew 1 hr 45 min to Boone and burned 22.5 gals. I flew 2
hours going home and burned 25.6 Gals. I love this plane. Gotta go
TO for KEAR.
Dean Sombke
N805HL
_____________________________________________________________
Click to find local singles for dating, romance and fun
http://track.juno.com/s/lc?u=http://tagline.untd.us/fc/CAaCX09ymrVmb129r
HgC8UuZaPB9jv1V/
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Silkscreening Your Panel |
From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
I decided that if Tim could do it, so could I...
After reading Tim Olson's notes several times and talking to him on the
phone, I actually applied ink to the panel and it turned out great! I
do have a few thoughts/tips that I thought I'd pass along while they're
fresh in my mind:
- I used the same brand/type ink as Tim: Nazdar ADE which is
intended for electronics and industrial panel use. I was able to find a
local distributor easily by doing a couple of Google searches - you will
want a distributor because this stuff ships as Hazmat and you'll pay
dearly!
- Smallest amount of this type of ink is a quart and it's mixed
5:1 with the catalyst. Smallest container of catalyst is a .5 pint and
the smallest container of screen cleaner is 1 gallon. The distributor
had the ink and screen cleaner in stock in these quantities. He ordered
the catalyst for me in the smaller size (no shipping fee!) and had it in
a few days.
- Get the exact screen cleaner that's recommended for the
brand/type ink you use. This stuff is also useful as a general cleanup
solvent.
- Make sure you let the panel paint cure for a long time before
silkscreening it. If you're a pro it probably isn't a big deal, but for
the rest of us there will probably be at least 1-2 labels that need to
be cleaned off and redone. I used PPG Concept auto paint on the panel
and it sat for a couple weeks before I silkscreened it. The solvent
didn't have any effect at all on it - there was one label that I did 3
times before I was satisfied! I was very generous with the solvent when
cleaning off the panel so it didn't require any scrubbing.
- There is definitely a technique needed to be successful...
mask off labels around the one you actually want to apply. Put a small
glob of ink next to the label (on the mask area, NOT on the label
itself). With 1 smooth motion, drag the squeegee across label applying
pressure so that ink is even spread and not pooled in any area.
- The ink spec sheet will probably also have specs for the
squeegee type (you sure learn a lot building an airplane!). They are
measured in durometers - make sure you get what the ink maker
recommends. Nazdar ADE specifies a 70-80 durometer polyurethane
squeegee. The squeegees that I got have a wooden handle and a flexible
material attached to it. Get a few inches worth and then use your
bandsaw to cut them to widths that you need. Most of the time I used
one that was about 1 inch wide and a few times used one that was about
2.5 inches wide. I had one between those sizes but never used it. I
also never had need for any other size.
- You have plenty of time to work with the ink. The Nazdar ADE
ink has a pot time of 6-8 hours! You don't have to rush, if you make a
mistake it can be cleaned off with the screen cleaner and just try it
again.
- I took Tim's advice and used regular "scotch tape" to mask
off the area around the label I wanted. Even if I was going to redo the
same label, I removed the tape (cleaner will dissolve it and make a
sticky mess) and cleaned the screen. Seems like overkill but the mesh
is very fine and it's a small price to pay for starting fresh each time.
- The ink will also determine the screen mesh size in TPI
(threads per inch) as a range. Get the finest mesh that your ink
specifies for the sharpest edges. Nazdar ADE specifies a mesh range
from 200-305 and I went with 305.
- There are a number of companies that will take your artwork
and turn it into a photo-positive mask mounted on a screen. They can
read almost any format (but not MS Visio) and seem to lean toward Adobe
Illustrator as a default. They can also take PDF files (which is what I
sent) so MS Visio or CAD programs aren't an issue as long as you can
generate that output.
- I iterated many times with my layout before finally sending
the file in. I used MS Visio for the layout simply because 1) I had it,
and 2) it allows measured layouts where objects can be grouped and
moved. I verified the layout spacing, size, font size, etc. by printing
onto clear viewgraph sheets. I then cut these out and taped them onto
the panel. After several minor adjustments it was ready to go. This
method allowed me to see exactly what the end product would turn out
like.
- Turn around time for the actual silkscreen was just a few
days. It took them a couple days after receiving the email to ship the
finished product back to me.
- When you make your screen be sure to put on a few extra
labels for testing and practice. This avoids the potential for messing
up the screen (not getting screen completely cleaned, etc) on actual
labels that you're going to use. Do a few test runs to develop the feel
for the squeegee technique. You can do this on scrap bare aluminum.
Common problems I saw were not enough pressure on the squeegee and
making sure the ink starts out exclusively on the mask so the only way
it gets over the label is via the squeegee.
- Be sure to test the solvent on the paint before using it on
the actual panel. I strongly suspect that it will remove rattle can
paint of just about any brand/type.
- You can use any type of ink including water based craft ink.
I chose the ADE because I didn't want to clearcoat the panel. Obviously
if you go with something like Walmart craft ink you'll want to clearcoat
it when finished.
Although I went with the same silkscreen supplier and ink type as Tim,
I'm sure that there are a LOT of choices out there (I'm just lazy).
Below are some links to get you started:
Tim's panel silkscreening web page:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/20051228/index.html
Silkscreen supplier:
http://www.silkscreenframes.com/vend/westar/screens.html
Nazdar ADE ink specs: http://www.nazdar.com/pdf/ADE_TDS_Rev_5_061127.pdf
Bob #40105
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> |
Subject: | Bottom Cowl Nose Gear Notch |
I'm getting ready to put my fuse up on the gear but I'd like to make the cut
out for the nose gear in the bottom cowl before I take the fuse outside to
put the gear under it. If anyone remembers how big that notch was (measured
from the firewall) could they save me a little work?
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)suddenlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Bottom wing skin rivets |
I would recommend solid rivets for MOST of the bottom wing skin. BUT I
would also recommend that you have a helper to either rivet or buck for
you. It makes it a lot easier to do the bottom skin with a helper.
There will be a number of places on the bottom skin that it is almost
impossible to buck the solid rivets and on those places I put in blind
rivets.
Best regards,
Russ Daves
N710RV - almost to 1st conditional inspection.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "don wentz" <dasduck(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Duckworks lenses cracking |
Hi Ralph,
Tim is correct, the RV-10 lens has NO holes drilled in it.
Give me a call,
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Duckworks lenses cracking
-->
The older ones are supposed to be drilled through.....on the 6's anyway...
Now I know there's a better way - maybe a retrofit too.....
I'll give Don a call...
Thanks
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Duckworks lenses cracking
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Duckworks lenses cracking |
503-543-2298 rings as invalid....got it from the RV Yeller pages....
Better number?
Thanks,
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
>From: don wentz <dasduck(at)comcast.net>
>Sent: Jun 18, 2007 2:31 PM
>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Duckworks lenses cracking
>
>
>Hi Ralph,
>Tim is correct, the RV-10 lens has NO holes drilled in it.
>Give me a call,
>Don
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
>Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:06 PM
>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Duckworks lenses cracking
>
>-->
>
>The older ones are supposed to be drilled through.....on the 6's anyway...
>
>Now I know there's a better way - maybe a retrofit too.....
>
>I'll give Don a call...
>
>Thanks
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
>To:
>Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 10:17 PM
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Duckworks lenses cracking
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | RV flyin BOONE, IA |
From: | "Tom Deutsch" <deutscht(at)rhwhotels.com> |
I certainly would have been there with my 10 if I had known about it.
Tom Deutsch
N588RV (80 hours)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
(US SSA)
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 10:12 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV flyin BOONE, IA
Dean's plane flew and sounded great, and it was indeed the only flying
RV-10 at Boone. There were several other -10 builders there and the
local folks (Adrian Moses and Lyle Bender) coordinated an RV-10 seminar
for potential new builders. Both of their planes were there but still
quite a ways from the flying stage however.
Thanks for the taxi service Dean!
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ddddsp1(at)juno.com
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 5:53 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV flyin BOONE, IA
Just a brief note on the RV flyin at Boone, IA today. I left KAUH at 7
AM with a fellow builder for KPMV to pick up Bruce Bluhm and Bob
Condrey (a full plane). We arrived at KBNW at 9:00AM and got a FRONT
row seat for the ONLY RV-10 at the show. All you other guys were
either in Canada, Niagra Falls, (TIM O) or too busy. Anyway, Adrian
Moses lead a forum on the RV 10 with BOB C. doing a talk on the kit and
options. It was a great day........little warm and muggy but that is
IOWA. We left at 12:05 and were home in GI, NE at 2 pm. I am now
meeting several fliers at KEAR at 6:30pm for Dinner then we will fly
home. I flew 1 hr 45 min to Boone and burned 22.5 gals. I flew 2
hours going home and burned 25.6 Gals. I love this plane. Gotta go
TO for KEAR.
Dean Sombke
N805HL
_____________________________________________________________
Click to find local singles for dating, romance and fun
http://track.juno.com/s/lc?u=http://tagline.untd.us/fc/CAaCX09ymrVmb129r
HgC8UuZaPB9jv1V/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
Subject: | Duckworks lenses cracking |
http://www.duckworksaviation.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 1:43 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Duckworks lenses cracking
503-543-2298 rings as invalid....got it from the RV Yeller pages....
Better number?
Thanks,
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
>From: don wentz <dasduck(at)comcast.net>
>Sent: Jun 18, 2007 2:31 PM
>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Duckworks lenses cracking
>
>
>Hi Ralph,
>Tim is correct, the RV-10 lens has NO holes drilled in it.
>Give me a call,
>Don
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
>Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:06 PM
>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Duckworks lenses cracking
>
>-->
>
>The older ones are supposed to be drilled through.....on the 6's anyway...
>
>Now I know there's a better way - maybe a retrofit too.....
>
>I'll give Don a call...
>
>Thanks
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
>To:
>Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 10:17 PM
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Duckworks lenses cracking
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <sam.marlow(at)adelphia.net> |
If you build it it will fly, first flight last Thursday, what a rush!
Sam Marlow
RV10, #40157
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | OAT probe location |
I need to determine the location for the Outside Air Temp probe (OAT). I
heard from one builder that placed it on the bottom of the wing on an
inspection panel. Are there other god / alternative locations that
others have used?
Deems Davis # 406
Engine Stuff & Probes/Sensors
http://deemsrv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> |
Hello,
on page 49-03 in the plans it says to "consult the documentation included with
front seat assemblies regarding seat covering". Icant find those would anyone
be able to scan them and send them to me?
I am interested in how the seat covering will be done so I am happy if you could
send me pitures of your front & rearseats. Does the covering use a zipper?
Best Regards
Michael
www.wellenzohn.net
--------
RV-10 builder (wings)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119315#119315
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: OAT probe location |
Each of my 2 EFIS units and my engine monitor came with a OAT probe. I
placed one on the most inboard right inspection panel under the wing and one in
each NACA vent. I've seen a lot of posts saying the NACA vents are a bad
location for various reasons, but in practice I've never seen the temperature be
different more than 1 degree between any of the probes when flying. (On the
ground, the sunny side NACA vent probe is typically higher.)
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 6/18/2007 10:43:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
deemsdavis(at)cox.net writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis
I need to determine the location for the Outside Air Temp probe (OAT). I
heard from one builder that placed it on the bottom of the wing on an
inspection panel. Are there other god / alternative locations that
others have used?
Deems Davis # 406
Engine Stuff & Probes/Sensors
http://deemsrv10.com/
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
_http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Seat Covering |
That documentation does not exist. I contacted Van's and Oregon Aero lookin
g
for it, to no avail. Attached is a picture of my seats. I had them covered
by a local upholstery shop in Nampa, ID, no documentation required.
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 6/19/2007 2:54:32 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Michael Wellenzohn"
Hello,
on page 49-03 in the plans it says to "consult the documentation included
with front seat assemblies regarding seat covering". Ican=C2=B4t find those
would
anyone be able to scan them and send them to me?
I am interested in how the seat covering will be done so I am happy if you
could send me pitures of your front & rearseats. Does the covering use a
zipper?
Best Regards
Michael
www.wellenzohn.net
--------
RV-10 builder (wings)
#511
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
_http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Rob Hunter" <rwhunter(at)integra.net> |
Subject: | Holes for conduit |
I just decided to use conduit in the wings and was wondering if anyone
had an idea on how to make the holes larger with the ribs already
riveted on one of the wings. There isn't much space on the inboard part
of the wing between the ribs to get a unibit and drill in there.
Rob Hunter
40432
Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 5:45 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Seat Covering
That documentation does not exist. I contacted Van's and Oregon Aero
looking for it, to no avail. Attached is a picture of my seats. I had
them covered by a local upholstery shop in Nampa, ID, no documentation
required.
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 6/19/2007 2:54:32 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net writes:
Hello,
on page 49-03 in the plans it says to "consult the documentation
included with front seat assemblies regarding seat covering".
Ican=C2=B4t
find those would anyone be able to scan them and send them to me?
I am interested in how the seat covering will be done so I am happy if
you could send me pitures of your front & rearseats. Does the covering
use a zipper?
Best Regards
Michael
www.wellenzohn.net
--------
RV-10 builder (wings)
#511
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew
_____
See what's free at AOL.com
<http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com> |
Subject: | Holes for conduit |
Rob;
Go to the local airplane parts warehouse and get an extension bit that
will fit the unibit. Put the extension thru to the rib that you want
drilled, then put the unibit on the the end of the extension. This is
what I had to do for the four ribs on the inboard side. A right angle
drill works good for the accessible ribs. Also, I would have run
another small conduit for the strobe lights. I ended up running my
wires with the main bundle. Only time will tell if I get interference
with the Bob Archer VOR antennae that I plan to put in the wingtip.
Dr Fred
40515
Fuse side panels riveted this weekend. Yea!
To Oshgosh first Sunday thru Tues in a 152. Looking forward to 8 hrs
of togetherness with my wife.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Holes for conduit |
Attached are photos of the set up I used to do this. The end piece was made
on a lathe with an allen set screw to hold the unibit in place.
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 6/19/2007 7:39:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rwhunter(at)integra.net writes:
I just decided to use conduit in the wings and was wondering if anyone had
an idea on how to make the holes larger with the ribs already riveted on one
of the wings. There isn't much space on the inboard part of the wing between
the ribs to get a unibit and drill in there.
Rob Hunter
40432
Wings
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
_http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bob Newman" <rnewman(at)lutron.com> |
Subject: | Re: OAT probe location |
Here's my experience with OAT in Naca scoop. (This is in my Glastar)
I had a definite problem with indicated temps running from 7-10 degrees
high in stabilized cruise.(during the winter). The OAT probe was
mounted in the naca scoop but quite far back towards the scat tube.
The root issue was as the amount of air requested by adjusting the
eye-ball vent at the end of the scat tube as controlled by me the
airflow thru the naca scoop would change. This changed the ballance
between cold outside air flow over the oat probe and the amount of
heating of the naca scoop from inside the airplane. I could literally
adjust the eyeball vent and see a change in the indicated OAT
temperature. I'm quite sure that if the OAT probe were moved to near
the front of the scoop it would not have had such a dramatic effect.
Ultimately I removed the probe from the scoop and mounted at the bottom
of the gear leg fairing, just poking out into the slipstream.
-Bob
>>> JSMcGrew(at)aol.com 6/19/2007 6:11 AM >>>
Each of my 2 EFIS units and my engine monitor came with a OAT probe. I
placed one on the most inboard right inspection panel under the wing
and one in
each NACA vent. I've seen a lot of posts saying the NACA vents are a
bad
location for various reasons, but in practice I've never seen the
temperature be
different more than 1 degree between any of the probes when flying. (On
the
ground, the sunny side NACA vent probe is typically higher.)
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 6/18/2007 10:43:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
deemsdavis(at)cox.net writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis
I need to determine the location for the Outside Air Temp probe (OAT).
I
heard from one builder that placed it on the bottom of the wing on an
inspection panel. Are there other god / alternative locations that
others have used?
Deems Davis # 406
Engine Stuff & Probes/Sensors
http://deemsrv10.com/
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
_http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
************************************** See what's free at
http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Holes for conduit |
From: | "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> |
The way I did it was to leave the original hole, for running the strobe
wire through, then I chose the lightning hole forward of the one with
the push/pull tube in it, and drilled a small #40 hole above each one
and lock wired corrugated tubing in, I did this, so that even if the
lock wire fails the tube still can not interfere with the controls,
additional I used tractor type grommet material for anti-abrasion on the
hole edge to keep chaffing the tube to the minimum. Easy and doable
after the bottom skins are on, just have to be a lock wire wiz, and
that's why the AP at the airport did it for me, because a wiz I am not!
Dan
N289DT RV10E (FAA inspection has been scheduled)
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Hunter
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 7:29 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Holes for conduit
I just decided to use conduit in the wings and was wondering if anyone
had an idea on how to make the holes larger with the ribs already
riveted on one of the wings. There isn't much space on the inboard part
of the wing between the ribs to get a unibit and drill in there.
Rob Hunter
40432
Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 5:45 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Seat Covering
That documentation does not exist. I contacted Van's and Oregon Aero
looking for it, to no avail. Attached is a picture of my seats. I had
them covered by a local upholstery shop in Nampa, ID, no documentation
required.
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 6/19/2007 2:54:32 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net writes:
Hello,
on page 49-03 in the plans it says to "consult the documentation
included with front seat assemblies regarding seat covering".
Ican=C2=B4t find those would anyone be able to scan them and send them
to me?
I am interested in how the seat covering will be done so I am happy if
you could send me pitures of your front & rearseats. Does the covering
use a zipper?
Best Regards
Michael
www.wellenzohn.net
--------
RV-10 builder (wings)
#511
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew
_____
See what's free at AOL.com
<http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: OAT probe location |
That makes sense. It sounds like I placed mine a bit further forward than
you.
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 6/19/2007 9:11:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rnewman(at)lutron.com writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Newman"
Here's my experience with OAT in Naca scoop. (This is in my Glastar)
I had a definite problem with indicated temps running from 7-10 degrees
high in stabilized cruise.(during the winter). The OAT probe was
mounted in the naca scoop but quite far back towards the scat tube.
The root issue was as the amount of air requested by adjusting the
eye-ball vent at the end of the scat tube as controlled by me the
airflow thru the naca scoop would change. This changed the ballance
between cold outside air flow over the oat probe and the amount of
heating of the naca scoop from inside the airplane. I could literally
adjust the eyeball vent and see a change in the indicated OAT
temperature. I'm quite sure that if the OAT probe were moved to near
the front of the scoop it would not have had such a dramatic effect.
Ultimately I removed the probe from the scoop and mounted at the bottom
of the gear leg fairing, just poking out into the slipstream.
-Bob
>>> JSMcGrew(at)aol.com 6/19/2007 6:11 AM >>>
Each of my 2 EFIS units and my engine monitor came with a OAT probe. I
placed one on the most inboard right inspection panel under the wing
and one in
each NACA vent. I've seen a lot of posts saying the NACA vents are a
bad
location for various reasons, but in practice I've never seen the
temperature be
different more than 1 degree between any of the probes when flying. (On
the
ground, the sunny side NACA vent probe is typically higher.)
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 6/18/2007 10:43:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
deemsdavis(at)cox.net writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis
I need to determine the location for the Outside Air Temp probe (OAT).
I
heard from one builder that placed it on the bottom of the wing on an
inspection panel. Are there other god / alternative locations that
others have used?
Deems Davis # 406
Engine Stuff & Probes/Sensors
http://deemsrv10.com/
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
_http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
Subject: | Re: OAT probe location |
I'm just wondering.... knowing that factors such as the sun,
and engine heat, propwash, exhaust, vent opening/closing,
and things like that can affect OAT reading, why do people
even consider such poor mounting locations as the NACA inlet,
wing root fairing, and places like that.....other than because
it's an easy/lazy way to get yourself an OAT reading? Wouldn't
it be better just to take 20 extra minutes and run the wires
needed to give an accurate indication? On my system it's
treated as critical enough that you even have a calibration
procedure to adjust for compression effects of flying at
170kts and the slight rise in temp that you get from
airspeed changes. It's just disconcerting to see that people
just don't really seem to care about some things.
(This is not directed at you Bob, so please take no offense)
To continue the rant a little, I think i'll start a new post...
(I'm just in one of those moods today I guess)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Bob Newman wrote:
>
> Here's my experience with OAT in Naca scoop. (This is in my Glastar)
> I had a definite problem with indicated temps running from 7-10 degrees
> high in stabilized cruise.(during the winter). The OAT probe was
> mounted in the naca scoop but quite far back towards the scat tube.
> The root issue was as the amount of air requested by adjusting the
> eye-ball vent at the end of the scat tube as controlled by me the
> airflow thru the naca scoop would change. This changed the ballance
> between cold outside air flow over the oat probe and the amount of
> heating of the naca scoop from inside the airplane. I could literally
> adjust the eyeball vent and see a change in the indicated OAT
> temperature. I'm quite sure that if the OAT probe were moved to near
> the front of the scoop it would not have had such a dramatic effect.
> Ultimately I removed the probe from the scoop and mounted at the bottom
> of the gear leg fairing, just poking out into the slipstream.
>
> -Bob
>
>>>> JSMcGrew(at)aol.com 6/19/2007 6:11 AM >>>
>
>
> Each of my 2 EFIS units and my engine monitor came with a OAT probe. I
>
> placed one on the most inboard right inspection panel under the wing
> and one in
> each NACA vent. I've seen a lot of posts saying the NACA vents are a
> bad
> location for various reasons, but in practice I've never seen the
> temperature be
> different more than 1 degree between any of the probes when flying. (On
> the
> ground, the sunny side NACA vent probe is typically higher.)
>
> -Jim
> 40134
>
> In a message dated 6/18/2007 10:43:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> deemsdavis(at)cox.net writes:
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis
>
> I need to determine the location for the Outside Air Temp probe (OAT).
> I
> heard from one builder that placed it on the bottom of the wing on an
>
> inspection panel. Are there other god / alternative locations that
> others have used?
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Engine Stuff & Probes/Sensors
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
>
>
> Jim "Scooter" McGrew
> _http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tom Deutsch" <deutscht(at)rhwhotels.com> |
What are you flying guys using for your aircraft type when filing a
flight plan? Duats doesn't want to recognize RV10 as an aircraft type.
Tom Deutsch
#40545
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: Holes for conduit |
Rob Hunter wrote:
> I just decided to use conduit in the wings and was wondering if anyone
> had an idea on how to make the holes larger with the ribs already
> riveted on one of the wings. There isn't much space on the inboard
> part of the wing between the ribs to get a unibit and drill in there.
>
> Rob Hunter
> 40432
> Wings
Faced with this situation on other projects, I used a chuck from a drill
that had already been removed and purchased a piece of threaded rod to
fit the chuck. I've had to use more than one piece of threaded rod, and
they have long nuts to attach them together. The nice thing about
Unibits is that they are 'self centering'. For my application, though,
I needed a drilled hole, and the threaded rod was too limber for me to
be able to hit my target. I was reduced to using a piece of PVC pipe
with a plug in the end. I drilled the plug the same size as the
threaded rod, and pushed the threaded rod through the hole and attached
the chuck with the unibit. I could feed the chuck through the holes I
had and the PVC pipe helped center the drill bit where I wanted it.
Now, I'm a little older, and a little wiser. In the tool section of
your local hardware store, you'll find bit extensions in reasonable to
very long lengths. A lot more pricey than threaded rod, they have a
'bushing' with a set screw ...... get ones that fit your Unibit. You
can 'stack' them (like I did with the threaded rod) and the PVC trick
should work as well.
Hope this helps.
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
Subject: | Instrument Calibration |
Ok, here's the promised rant that I'll try to keep short.
It's frustrating for me to see people who don't do diligence in
their avionics calibration and flight testing. I think we all
owe it to our hard work to get flying to make our systems as good
as we can, and I really can't fathom some of the lack of follow-through
that I sometimes hear. Let me give you 2 examples that are even
RV-10 specific...
One RV-10 I know of, built for sale, not for personal use, had
been flown THROUGH it's flyoff period, and had over 50 hours on
it with this issue: The GRT EIS is very nice, but the manual takes
some focus to actually read and perform the proper calibrations of
some probes. You need to enter scale factors and offsets for
various probes that are factor known numbers, and some like fuel
calibrations you have to do a little simple math. Well, this
particular RV-10 builder didn't enter scale factors and offsets
for the oil and fuel pressure sensors, among others. They told
me how the "Oil pressure was running too high so I cranked it
down about 20psi to get it into the proper range." Well, that
doesn't seem to be such a brilliant move, given the transducer
calibration numbers were never entered....now that plane is
flying with a false reading, with pressure adjusted to show
as good....all due to lack of diligence. The same plane had
CONSTANT alarms for fuel flow (or maybe it was pressure) due
to a similar problem, and I personally saw fuel pressure (or
was it flow) readings of 65,000. Hmmm....makes you wonder. Good
thing it wasn't built to keep, but built to sell, right? Doesn't
make a damn bit of difference to me, because it's still in my
freaking insurance pool.
Next, there's the RV-10 that exhibits physics-defying fuel flows.
Burns something like 11 or 12gph at 25 squared. Takeoff flows
are down in that range too. Seems a bit strange to me, given
the Lycoming power chart
(see http://www.myrv10.com/files/engines/IO540/Lyc-540-Power.pdf)
clearly showing that this isn't possible. 25 squared should
yield something like 18-19gph. Takeoff flows will be 24-29gph
approx. But, the flyoff period is ended, and there's no obligation
on anyone's part to perform any calibrations necessary to get
accurate readings.
I'm just hoping that this perhaps encourages you as builders
to try to obtain at least safe, and accurate instrument
calibrations for your equipment. You can't do it without
reading the manuals, and you probably will have questions
and have to ask the manufacturer. Even a pre-built panel
from a panel maker will NOT have all of these calibrations
performed....we're EXPERIMENTAL, and it's up to the BUILDER
to do these things. Why does this matter to me? Because I
pay the same insurance company (AIG) to cover my plane as many
other builders do, and if someone else has a loss, it affects
me. Not to mention the fact that is even bigger...these
people are RV-10 building friends, and when we finally lose
our first one, which is a statistical inevitability, it's
going to be a sad day for all. Let's at least try to get
a few good years out of it before this happens so we don't
give homebuilding, or RV-10's a bad name. Do your diligence.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying 245+
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Instrument Calibration |
From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Good post, as usual, Tim
Jack Phillips
Finally riveting the tailcone on #40610
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 10:13 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Instrument Calibration
Ok, here's the promised rant that I'll try to keep short.
It's frustrating for me to see people who don't do diligence in their
avionics calibration and flight testing. I think we all owe it to our
hard work to get flying to make our systems as good as we can, and I
really can't fathom some of the lack of follow-through that I sometimes
hear. Let me give you 2 examples that are even RV-10 specific...
One RV-10 I know of, built for sale, not for personal use, had been
flown THROUGH it's flyoff period, and had over 50 hours on it with this
issue: The GRT EIS is very nice, but the manual takes some focus to
actually read and perform the proper calibrations of some probes. You
need to enter scale factors and offsets for various probes that are
factor known numbers, and some like fuel calibrations you have to do a
little simple math. Well, this particular RV-10 builder didn't enter
scale factors and offsets for the oil and fuel pressure sensors, among
others. They told me how the "Oil pressure was running too high so I
cranked it down about 20psi to get it into the proper range." Well,
that doesn't seem to be such a brilliant move, given the transducer
calibration numbers were never entered....now that plane is flying with
a false reading, with pressure adjusted to show as good....all due to
lack of diligence. The same plane had CONSTANT alarms for fuel flow (or
maybe it was pressure) due to a similar problem, and I personally saw
fuel pressure (or was it flow) readings of 65,000. Hmmm....makes you
wonder. Good thing it wasn't built to keep, but built to sell, right?
Doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me, because it's still in my
freaking insurance pool.
Next, there's the RV-10 that exhibits physics-defying fuel flows.
Burns something like 11 or 12gph at 25 squared. Takeoff flows are down
in that range too. Seems a bit strange to me, given the Lycoming power
chart (see http://www.myrv10.com/files/engines/IO540/Lyc-540-Power.pdf)
clearly showing that this isn't possible. 25 squared should yield
something like 18-19gph. Takeoff flows will be 24-29gph approx. But,
the flyoff period is ended, and there's no obligation on anyone's part
to perform any calibrations necessary to get accurate readings.
I'm just hoping that this perhaps encourages you as builders to try to
obtain at least safe, and accurate instrument calibrations for your
equipment. You can't do it without reading the manuals, and you
probably will have questions and have to ask the manufacturer. Even a
pre-built panel from a panel maker will NOT have all of these
calibrations performed....we're EXPERIMENTAL, and it's up to the BUILDER
to do these things. Why does this matter to me? Because I pay the same
insurance company (AIG) to cover my plane as many other builders do, and
if someone else has a loss, it affects me. Not to mention the fact that
is even bigger...these people are RV-10 building friends, and when we
finally lose our first one, which is a statistical inevitability, it's
going to be a sad day for all. Let's at least try to get a few good
years out of it before this happens so we don't give homebuilding, or
RV-10's a bad name. Do your diligence.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying 245+
_________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bob Newman" <rnewman(at)lutron.com> |
Subject: | Re: OAT probe location |
Jim, Yours are definetly in a better position than mine were. When
we installed them we were going for stealth. But we outsmarted
ourselves!
>>> JSMcGrew(at)aol.com 6/19/2007 9:27 AM >>>
That makes sense. It sounds like I placed mine a bit further forward
than
you.
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 6/19/2007 9:11:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rnewman(at)lutron.com writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Newman"
Here's my experience with OAT in Naca scoop. (This is in my Glastar)
I had a definite problem with indicated temps running from 7-10
degrees
high in stabilized cruise.(during the winter). The OAT probe was
mounted in the naca scoop but quite far back towards the scat tube.
The root issue was as the amount of air requested by adjusting the
eye-ball vent at the end of the scat tube as controlled by me the
airflow thru the naca scoop would change. This changed the ballance
between cold outside air flow over the oat probe and the amount of
heating of the naca scoop from inside the airplane. I could
literally
adjust the eyeball vent and see a change in the indicated OAT
temperature. I'm quite sure that if the OAT probe were moved to near
the front of the scoop it would not have had such a dramatic effect.
Ultimately I removed the probe from the scoop and mounted at the
bottom
of the gear leg fairing, just poking out into the slipstream.
-Bob
>>> JSMcGrew(at)aol.com 6/19/2007 6:11 AM >>>
Each of my 2 EFIS units and my engine monitor came with a OAT probe. I
placed one on the most inboard right inspection panel under the wing
and one in
each NACA vent. I've seen a lot of posts saying the NACA vents are a
bad
location for various reasons, but in practice I've never seen the
temperature be
different more than 1 degree between any of the probes when flying.
(On
the
ground, the sunny side NACA vent probe is typically higher.)
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 6/18/2007 10:43:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
deemsdavis(at)cox.net writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis
I need to determine the location for the Outside Air Temp probe
(OAT).
I
heard from one builder that placed it on the bottom of the wing on an
inspection panel. Are there other god / alternative locations that
others have used?
Deems Davis # 406
Engine Stuff & Probes/Sensors
http://deemsrv10.com/
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
_http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
************************************** See what's free at
http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bob Newman" <rnewman(at)lutron.com> |
Subject: | Re: OAT probe location |
No offense taken. We were adding OAT to an already built plane,
before we fully appreciated the effects or criticality of its position.
Pulling new wires to a new location in a plane with a very full and
complete interior is quite a project. However, given 20/10 hindsight
it would have been way less work to do it right the first time !! That
mistake I will not make again...(oh yeah, one other thing, when we
originally did this, we were VFR only and OAT was just nice to have,
now that I have IFR capabilty, the attention to these types of detail
moved up by orders of magnitude)
-Bob
>>> Tim(at)MyRV10.com 6/19/2007 9:32 AM >>>
I'm just wondering.... knowing that factors such as the sun,
and engine heat, propwash, exhaust, vent opening/closing,
and things like that can affect OAT reading, why do people
even consider such poor mounting locations as the NACA inlet,
wing root fairing, and places like that.....other than because
it's an easy/lazy way to get yourself an OAT reading? Wouldn't
it be better just to take 20 extra minutes and run the wires
needed to give an accurate indication? On my system it's
treated as critical enough that you even have a calibration
procedure to adjust for compression effects of flying at
170kts and the slight rise in temp that you get from
airspeed changes. It's just disconcerting to see that people
just don't really seem to care about some things.
(This is not directed at you Bob, so please take no offense)
To continue the rant a little, I think i'll start a new post...
(I'm just in one of those moods today I guess)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Bob Newman wrote:
>
> Here's my experience with OAT in Naca scoop. (This is in my
Glastar)
> I had a definite problem with indicated temps running from 7-10
degrees
> high in stabilized cruise.(during the winter). The OAT probe was
> mounted in the naca scoop but quite far back towards the scat tube.
> The root issue was as the amount of air requested by adjusting the
> eye-ball vent at the end of the scat tube as controlled by me the
> airflow thru the naca scoop would change. This changed the
ballance
> between cold outside air flow over the oat probe and the amount of
> heating of the naca scoop from inside the airplane. I could
literally
> adjust the eyeball vent and see a change in the indicated OAT
> temperature. I'm quite sure that if the OAT probe were moved to
near
> the front of the scoop it would not have had such a dramatic effect.
> Ultimately I removed the probe from the scoop and mounted at the
bottom
> of the gear leg fairing, just poking out into the slipstream.
>
> -Bob
>
>>>> JSMcGrew(at)aol.com 6/19/2007 6:11 AM >>>
>
>
> Each of my 2 EFIS units and my engine monitor came with a OAT probe.
I
>
> placed one on the most inboard right inspection panel under the wing
> and one in
> each NACA vent. I've seen a lot of posts saying the NACA vents are a
> bad
> location for various reasons, but in practice I've never seen the
> temperature be
> different more than 1 degree between any of the probes when flying.
(On
> the
> ground, the sunny side NACA vent probe is typically higher.)
>
> -Jim
> 40134
>
> In a message dated 6/18/2007 10:43:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> deemsdavis(at)cox.net writes:
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis
>
> I need to determine the location for the Outside Air Temp probe
(OAT).
> I
> heard from one builder that placed it on the bottom of the wing on an
>
> inspection panel. Are there other god / alternative locations that
> others have used?
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Engine Stuff & Probes/Sensors
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
>
>
> Jim "Scooter" McGrew
> _http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | ACS Experimental Door Handle |
From: | "nick(at)nleonard.com" <nick(at)nleonard.com> |
Has anyone (else) installed the "Experimental Door Handle" set? I worked out the
layout and install of the outside flush billet and it came out looking great.
I had thought I had worked out how the inside mechanism was going to fit but
it will be a little tighter than I thought and will take some "special" engineering
(fiberglass work).
Has anyone already installed one of these and can provide any guidance and pictures.
Sure could use some advise here, other than don't do it/use someting else/what
were you thinking.
Thanks,
Nick
--------
Nick Leonard
RV-10 (40015) Finish
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119417#119417
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com> |
Subject: | Re: OAT probe location |
Tim,
Starting a fight online? lol..............Did you get some bad mist o
ff the Niagara that put you in this mood?
INJEST>
Dean 805HL
_____________________________________________________________
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Tim,
Starting a fight online? lol..............Did you g
et some bad mist off the Niagara that put you in this mood? &
nbsp;
INJEST>
Dean 805HL
__________________________
___________________________________
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