RV10-Archive.digest.vol-ck

June 16, 2007 - July 06, 2007



      > Crows foot wrenches from Sears and adjust for about 1 & 1/2 inch offset.  
      >
      > Actually should have the conversion formulas in the instructions with 
      > your Torque Wrench.
      >
      > Hope this helps
      >
      > Bill S
      > 7a Ark
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
      > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel
      R.
      > Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 10:06 AM
      > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
      > Subject: RE: RV10-List: brake / fuel line fittings nut torque
      >
      > --> 
      >
      > A set of crows foot wrenches will enable you to do this.
      > Dan
      > N289DT RV10E E
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
      > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver
      > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 5:32 PM
      > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
      > Subject: Re: RV10-List: brake / fuel line fittings nut torque
      >
      >
      > I recently bought a torque wrench for sockets.  I don't see how it 
      > would
      >
      > work on a line fitting.  Does this require a different type of torque 
      > wrench?
      >
      > JSMcGrew(at)aol.com wrote:
      >   
      >> I think the torque values are listed in my copy of Standard Aircraft 
      >> Handbook for Mechanics and Technicians. I don't have access to it 
      >> right now so I can't tell you what it says.
      >>  
      >> I used those values and ended up with some leaks so I tightened them 
      >> "Just tight enough that it won't leak" and then started the practice 
      >> of "Just snug it up and check for leaks". With further experience 
      >> with
      >>     
      >
      >   
      >> a particularly annoying brake line leak, I found "tightening and 
      >> loosening the nut several times before torquing it helped to achieve 
      >> a
      >>     
      >
      >   
      >> tight seal". So there is one more comment to add to the list.
      >>  
      >> -Jim
      >> 40134
      >>     
      >
      >
      >   
      >
      > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > --
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: brake / fuel line fittings nut torque
Date: Jun 16, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
The needed pages are Pages 7-6 through 7-12 and 9-19 specifically for torques on brake and fuel tubing. I have PDFed the needed pages but for the benefit of the string and tin-can group it is 4.9MB. So, Send me a request (offline) and I will forward the passage to those with high-speed bandwidth and open attachment capability. If you have a spring adjustable torque wrench don't forget to release the pressure after using the tool... it helps calibration. John Cox -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Schlatterer Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 8:49 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: brake / fuel line fittings nut torque I just noticed on the scan that I had highlighted the fine and coarse thread torque tables and the highlight covered up the fine and coarse headings. Fine thread torque values at the top, coarse in the middle, there is a big difference. The AN tubing torque values are on the bottom. Glad it helped but the best thing to do is get a copy of the AC 43. It's cheap from Avery or Spruce. Bill S -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 7:23 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: brake / fuel line fittings nut torque That really helps. Thanks for taking the time to scan. Bill "still prepping for closing up the bottom wing skins" Watson Bill Schlatterer wrote: > Hope this sizes correctly. AN torque values at the bottom of > attachment and also on page 9-19 of AC 43. > > ON page 7-8 and 7-9 of AC 43 (Acceptable Methods and Techniques) it > gives the conversion formulas. Very easy to set up in a spreadsheet. > > Shows Crows foot wrench as a "Short Open End Adapter" on pat 7-8 > > Crows foot wrenches from Sears and adjust for about 1 & 1/2 inch offset. > > Actually should have the conversion formulas in the instructions with > your Torque Wrench. > > Hope this helps > > Bill S > 7a Ark > >> > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Rudder Pedal Bearing Blocks - Too tight ain't right
Date: Jun 16, 2007
Bevel the edges of the hole on the bearing blocks and then coat the metal and the block with BoeLube or Vasoline. JOhn G. >From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: Rudder Pedal Bearing Blocks - Too tight ain't right >Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 16:55:07 -0700 > > >I am trying to install my rudder pedels WD1006R/L and find that the F1039A >Rudder pedal bearing blocks fit very tight restricting the movement of the >pedals which I feel should move quite freely. I have tried to work the >uncoated ends of the pedels down with a die grinder and some rubbing >compound, but have not been sucessful in getting them loose so that the >pedals float freely as they hang. I am very reluctant to try gringing into >the delrin/nylon blocks as I am afraid of leaving abrasive material behind >that would make the tighness even worse. > >Please give me some suggestions > >See you in OSH - hope to meet some of the folks on the list >[/b] > >-------- >OSH '08 or Bust > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118776#118776 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy" <brinker(at)suddenlink.net>
Subject: Re: Wet Compass
Date: Jun 17, 2007
If your like me and don't wan't any more permanent clutter on you dash or panel, just make provision for a quick disconnect dash mounted compass. And keep the compass close at hand for emergency installs. Is there a far anywhere that says this is not acceptable ? Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 1:18 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Wet Compass > > Dan, > I actually think I started this discussion as my panel will have dual > independent EFIS and three sets of batteries. Why would I need a wet > compass? Seems from my reading of the discussion the DAR has final say on > certification but the FAR seems to require one. I figure I will put one in > (my only round instrument on the panel) and live it and call it my Back Up > to the third power. No reason to give an insurance company a reason to > deny a claim. > > William > Speaking of balloons & rockets (part 101) and ultralights, I was flying my > usual commute today (SBP-BUR-SBP) and came across a large bouquet of > balloons at 6,200'. Another one at 6,800' and one more on my return trip > at 4,000. Seems graduation is in full swing. > > Robin > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Masys > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 1:20 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Wet Compass > > > I think it was my post to blame for getting this started. The reason I > mentioned the question about applicability is that the FAR section on > instruments (91.205) is entitled: > > "Powered civil aircraft with **standard category US airworthiness > certificates**: [emphasis added] Instrument and equipment requirements." > > You be the judge, pay your money and take your chances with the DAR... > > -Dan Masys > #40448 > > ---- William Curtis wrote: >> >> FAR Part 91 -General operating and Flight rules; this deals with >> operation of personal aircraft in the airspace system and since there is >> no "experimental" airspace, I'm not sure how it would NOT apply to >> experimentals. I have to read the article to see what his take on it is. >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2007
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Wet Compass
If a compass isn't permanently mounted, I know of no way it can be properly "swung" or calibrated. There is no way a temporary mount compass will have any know degree of accuracy. Of course if you don't intend to have a proper aviation compass and choose to assume your electronics will always function correctly, I guess you can pretend to comply with 91.205. With all the choices available for mounting, in panel, on top of panel, on center post, etc. I don't quite understand the extreme aversion to meeting the basic instrument requirements. The B707 (IIRC) had an elegant arrangement with the compass on a swivel mount, folding under the glare shield when not needed, pivoting out to top center of the glare shield when desired. On 6/16/07, Randy wrote: > > If your like me and don't wan't any more permanent > clutter on you dash or panel, just make provision for a quick disconnect > dash mounted compass. And keep the compass close at hand for emergency > installs. Is there a far anywhere that says this is not acceptable ? > > Randy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com> > To: > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 1:18 AM > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Wet Compass > > > > > > Dan, > > I actually think I started this discussion as my panel will have dual > > independent EFIS and three sets of batteries. Why would I need a wet > > compass? Seems from my reading of the discussion the DAR has final say on > > certification but the FAR seems to require one. I figure I will put one in > > (my only round instrument on the panel) and live it and call it my Back Up > > to the third power. No reason to give an insurance company a reason to > > deny a claim. > > > > William > > Speaking of balloons & rockets (part 101) and ultralights, I was flying my > > usual commute today (SBP-BUR-SBP) and came across a large bouquet of > > balloons at 6,200'. Another one at 6,800' and one more on my return trip > > at 4,000. Seems graduation is in full swing. > > > > Robin > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Masys > > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 1:20 PM > > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Wet Compass > > > > > > I think it was my post to blame for getting this started. The reason I > > mentioned the question about applicability is that the FAR section on > > instruments (91.205) is entitled: > > > > "Powered civil aircraft with **standard category US airworthiness > > certificates**: [emphasis added] Instrument and equipment requirements." > > > > You be the judge, pay your money and take your chances with the DAR... > > > > -Dan Masys > > #40448 > > > > ---- William Curtis wrote: > >> > >> FAR Part 91 -General operating and Flight rules; this deals with > >> operation of personal aircraft in the airspace system and since there is > >> no "experimental" airspace, I'm not sure how it would NOT apply to > >> experimentals. I have to read the article to see what his take on it is. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2007
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Nose Fork Assembly Belleville Washer K2750-O-219
The Belleville "cupped" Washer K2750-O-219 for the front fork assembly is steel. I just took it out of the bag and there is some light rust on the washers. Nothing that can not be lightly buffed off. Have those before me primed these washers to prevent them from rusting in the future? (Page 46-06 in the plans) -- Larry Rosen RV-10 #356 http://lrosen.nerv10.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bottom wing skin rivets
From: "ddnebert" <doug(at)mapcontext.com>
Date: Jun 17, 2007
I'll take that advice. The rivets always turn out nicer with a bucker and a shooter. -------- RV-10 Builder #40546 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118936#118936 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Duckworks lenses cracking
Date: Jun 17, 2007
Lighting question.... I installed my lights according to instructions - strapping tape, 75 degrees, and all... The lenses were intact through the entire manufacturing process. I put them in fine. Today I was working on the wingtips and needed to remove the light assemblies and found that every screwhole had cracks. Anyone else have this issue? I'm kinda bummed - knowing that subsequent installations will be more difficult and won't be as tight. At a minimum, I need to order a new set of lenses...but I think I need some building advice when it comes to these things...... Thanks, Ralph Capen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Firewall Forward
Date: Jun 17, 2007
Don't be surprised if the AN823-8D and AN822-8D do not turn into the oil cooler. Mine turned about 3/4 turn. The tool you need is #91395 from Harbor Freight ($10-20). The set contains a 3/8"-18 NPT tap. Hold the oil cooler in a vise by the flange and tap up into the hole. Use thick grease on the tap so that any shavings are trapped in the grease at the flutes. Tap slowly 1/2 forward, then 1/4 back then 1/2 forward again. When satisfied with the depth of the tap clean the oil cooler threads with cotton buds dipped in acetone. When finished then rinse the oil cooler internally with mineral spirits. Fuel lube the AN parts and mount. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Sanding
Date: Jun 17, 2007
I may have discovered something useful today. As I was sanding on my cowl trying to get the area around the air inlets nice and smooth I kept wishing I had a nice thin and flexible sanding pad. I am using the 3" wide sticky-backed rolls of sandpaper so I cut of a 6" long piece and put about 3 or 4 layers of duct tape on the back. Makes a very nice sanding pad. For some time I have been sticking a short length of the sticky-back sandpaper to various shapes and sizes of wood scraps but this is my most recent brain storm. Probably I'm not the only one to discover this but it's still a good idea. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com>
Subject: wing spar attach hardware
Date: Jun 17, 2007
I know this has been talked about before but I could not find much in the =93not so=94 archives. I am on Sec 28 and it is time to mount the forward fuse section to the mid fuse section. The plans don=92t say much about the bolts but from the looks of it we are supposed to use the actual bolts that attach the wings. I went and bought some alternate =BC - 5=94 lag bolts but I cannot find any 9/16=92s bolts at the usual lowe=92s, depot, ace places. I am also somewhat hesitant to use the =BC bolts that I bought cause they will not go through without force. Plus the machining on them is nothing like the mil spec ones. I wonder if it would just be a better idea to buy another set from Van=92s? I imagine they aren=92t cheap though (no shipping for me they are 20 minuets away). What does Van=92s do with the quickbuild fuse kits? Is your attach hardware in them when they come? Do the bolts get marred up at all when you install them? I would appreciate any advice and/or what I did=92s. Ben Westfall PDX #40579 ' Fuse Geez this thing is getting BIG in a hurry!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV flyin BOONE, IA
Date: Jun 18, 2007
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Dean's plane flew and sounded great, and it was indeed the only flying RV-10 at Boone. There were several other -10 builders there and the local folks (Adrian Moses and Lyle Bender) coordinated an RV-10 seminar for potential new builders. Both of their planes were there but still quite a ways from the flying stage however. Thanks for the taxi service Dean! Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ddddsp1(at)juno.com Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 5:53 PM Subject: RV10-List: RV flyin BOONE, IA Just a brief note on the RV flyin at Boone, IA today. I left KAUH at 7 AM with a fellow builder for KPMV to pick up Bruce Bluhm and Bob Condrey (a full plane). We arrived at KBNW at 9:00AM and got a FRONT row seat for the ONLY RV-10 at the show. All you other guys were either in Canada, Niagra Falls, (TIM O) or too busy. Anyway, Adrian Moses lead a forum on the RV 10 with BOB C. doing a talk on the kit and options. It was a great day........little warm and muggy but that is IOWA. We left at 12:05 and were home in GI, NE at 2 pm. I am now meeting several fliers at KEAR at 6:30pm for Dinner then we will fly home. I flew 1 hr 45 min to Boone and burned 22.5 gals. I flew 2 hours going home and burned 25.6 Gals. I love this plane. Gotta go TO for KEAR. Dean Sombke N805HL _____________________________________________________________ Click to find local singles for dating, romance and fun http://track.juno.com/s/lc?u=http://tagline.untd.us/fc/CAaCX09ymrVmb129r HgC8UuZaPB9jv1V/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Silkscreening Your Panel
Date: Jun 18, 2007
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
I decided that if Tim could do it, so could I... After reading Tim Olson's notes several times and talking to him on the phone, I actually applied ink to the panel and it turned out great! I do have a few thoughts/tips that I thought I'd pass along while they're fresh in my mind: - I used the same brand/type ink as Tim: Nazdar ADE which is intended for electronics and industrial panel use. I was able to find a local distributor easily by doing a couple of Google searches - you will want a distributor because this stuff ships as Hazmat and you'll pay dearly! - Smallest amount of this type of ink is a quart and it's mixed 5:1 with the catalyst. Smallest container of catalyst is a .5 pint and the smallest container of screen cleaner is 1 gallon. The distributor had the ink and screen cleaner in stock in these quantities. He ordered the catalyst for me in the smaller size (no shipping fee!) and had it in a few days. - Get the exact screen cleaner that's recommended for the brand/type ink you use. This stuff is also useful as a general cleanup solvent. - Make sure you let the panel paint cure for a long time before silkscreening it. If you're a pro it probably isn't a big deal, but for the rest of us there will probably be at least 1-2 labels that need to be cleaned off and redone. I used PPG Concept auto paint on the panel and it sat for a couple weeks before I silkscreened it. The solvent didn't have any effect at all on it - there was one label that I did 3 times before I was satisfied! I was very generous with the solvent when cleaning off the panel so it didn't require any scrubbing. - There is definitely a technique needed to be successful... mask off labels around the one you actually want to apply. Put a small glob of ink next to the label (on the mask area, NOT on the label itself). With 1 smooth motion, drag the squeegee across label applying pressure so that ink is even spread and not pooled in any area. - The ink spec sheet will probably also have specs for the squeegee type (you sure learn a lot building an airplane!). They are measured in durometers - make sure you get what the ink maker recommends. Nazdar ADE specifies a 70-80 durometer polyurethane squeegee. The squeegees that I got have a wooden handle and a flexible material attached to it. Get a few inches worth and then use your bandsaw to cut them to widths that you need. Most of the time I used one that was about 1 inch wide and a few times used one that was about 2.5 inches wide. I had one between those sizes but never used it. I also never had need for any other size. - You have plenty of time to work with the ink. The Nazdar ADE ink has a pot time of 6-8 hours! You don't have to rush, if you make a mistake it can be cleaned off with the screen cleaner and just try it again. - I took Tim's advice and used regular "scotch tape" to mask off the area around the label I wanted. Even if I was going to redo the same label, I removed the tape (cleaner will dissolve it and make a sticky mess) and cleaned the screen. Seems like overkill but the mesh is very fine and it's a small price to pay for starting fresh each time. - The ink will also determine the screen mesh size in TPI (threads per inch) as a range. Get the finest mesh that your ink specifies for the sharpest edges. Nazdar ADE specifies a mesh range from 200-305 and I went with 305. - There are a number of companies that will take your artwork and turn it into a photo-positive mask mounted on a screen. They can read almost any format (but not MS Visio) and seem to lean toward Adobe Illustrator as a default. They can also take PDF files (which is what I sent) so MS Visio or CAD programs aren't an issue as long as you can generate that output. - I iterated many times with my layout before finally sending the file in. I used MS Visio for the layout simply because 1) I had it, and 2) it allows measured layouts where objects can be grouped and moved. I verified the layout spacing, size, font size, etc. by printing onto clear viewgraph sheets. I then cut these out and taped them onto the panel. After several minor adjustments it was ready to go. This method allowed me to see exactly what the end product would turn out like. - Turn around time for the actual silkscreen was just a few days. It took them a couple days after receiving the email to ship the finished product back to me. - When you make your screen be sure to put on a few extra labels for testing and practice. This avoids the potential for messing up the screen (not getting screen completely cleaned, etc) on actual labels that you're going to use. Do a few test runs to develop the feel for the squeegee technique. You can do this on scrap bare aluminum. Common problems I saw were not enough pressure on the squeegee and making sure the ink starts out exclusively on the mask so the only way it gets over the label is via the squeegee. - Be sure to test the solvent on the paint before using it on the actual panel. I strongly suspect that it will remove rattle can paint of just about any brand/type. - You can use any type of ink including water based craft ink. I chose the ADE because I didn't want to clearcoat the panel. Obviously if you go with something like Walmart craft ink you'll want to clearcoat it when finished. Although I went with the same silkscreen supplier and ink type as Tim, I'm sure that there are a LOT of choices out there (I'm just lazy). Below are some links to get you started: Tim's panel silkscreening web page: http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/20051228/index.html Silkscreen supplier: http://www.silkscreenframes.com/vend/westar/screens.html Nazdar ADE ink specs: http://www.nazdar.com/pdf/ADE_TDS_Rev_5_061127.pdf Bob #40105 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Bottom Cowl Nose Gear Notch
Date: Jun 18, 2007
I'm getting ready to put my fuse up on the gear but I'd like to make the cut out for the nose gear in the bottom cowl before I take the fuse outside to put the gear under it. If anyone remembers how big that notch was (measured from the firewall) could they save me a little work? Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)suddenlink.net>
Subject: Re: Bottom wing skin rivets
Date: Jun 18, 2007
I would recommend solid rivets for MOST of the bottom wing skin. BUT I would also recommend that you have a helper to either rivet or buck for you. It makes it a lot easier to do the bottom skin with a helper. There will be a number of places on the bottom skin that it is almost impossible to buck the solid rivets and on those places I put in blind rivets. Best regards, Russ Daves N710RV - almost to 1st conditional inspection. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "don wentz" <dasduck(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Duckworks lenses cracking
Date: Jun 18, 2007
Hi Ralph, Tim is correct, the RV-10 lens has NO holes drilled in it. Give me a call, Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:06 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Duckworks lenses cracking --> The older ones are supposed to be drilled through.....on the 6's anyway... Now I know there's a better way - maybe a retrofit too..... I'll give Don a call... Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 10:17 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Duckworks lenses cracking ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 18, 2007
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Duckworks lenses cracking
503-543-2298 rings as invalid....got it from the RV Yeller pages.... Better number? Thanks, Ralph -----Original Message----- >From: don wentz <dasduck(at)comcast.net> >Sent: Jun 18, 2007 2:31 PM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV10-List: Duckworks lenses cracking > > >Hi Ralph, >Tim is correct, the RV-10 lens has NO holes drilled in it. >Give me a call, >Don > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen >Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:06 PM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Duckworks lenses cracking > >--> > >The older ones are supposed to be drilled through.....on the 6's anyway... > >Now I know there's a better way - maybe a retrofit too..... > >I'll give Don a call... > >Thanks >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> >To: >Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 10:17 PM >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Duckworks lenses cracking > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV flyin BOONE, IA
Date: Jun 18, 2007
From: "Tom Deutsch" <deutscht(at)rhwhotels.com>
I certainly would have been there with my 10 if I had known about it. Tom Deutsch N588RV (80 hours) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US SSA) Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 10:12 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV flyin BOONE, IA Dean's plane flew and sounded great, and it was indeed the only flying RV-10 at Boone. There were several other -10 builders there and the local folks (Adrian Moses and Lyle Bender) coordinated an RV-10 seminar for potential new builders. Both of their planes were there but still quite a ways from the flying stage however. Thanks for the taxi service Dean! Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ddddsp1(at)juno.com Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 5:53 PM Subject: RV10-List: RV flyin BOONE, IA Just a brief note on the RV flyin at Boone, IA today. I left KAUH at 7 AM with a fellow builder for KPMV to pick up Bruce Bluhm and Bob Condrey (a full plane). We arrived at KBNW at 9:00AM and got a FRONT row seat for the ONLY RV-10 at the show. All you other guys were either in Canada, Niagra Falls, (TIM O) or too busy. Anyway, Adrian Moses lead a forum on the RV 10 with BOB C. doing a talk on the kit and options. It was a great day........little warm and muggy but that is IOWA. We left at 12:05 and were home in GI, NE at 2 pm. I am now meeting several fliers at KEAR at 6:30pm for Dinner then we will fly home. I flew 1 hr 45 min to Boone and burned 22.5 gals. I flew 2 hours going home and burned 25.6 Gals. I love this plane. Gotta go TO for KEAR. Dean Sombke N805HL _____________________________________________________________ Click to find local singles for dating, romance and fun http://track.juno.com/s/lc?u=http://tagline.untd.us/fc/CAaCX09ymrVmb129r HgC8UuZaPB9jv1V/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Jun 18, 2007
Subject: Duckworks lenses cracking
http://www.duckworksaviation.com/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 1:43 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Duckworks lenses cracking 503-543-2298 rings as invalid....got it from the RV Yeller pages.... Better number? Thanks, Ralph -----Original Message----- >From: don wentz <dasduck(at)comcast.net> >Sent: Jun 18, 2007 2:31 PM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV10-List: Duckworks lenses cracking > > >Hi Ralph, >Tim is correct, the RV-10 lens has NO holes drilled in it. >Give me a call, >Don > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen >Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:06 PM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Duckworks lenses cracking > >--> > >The older ones are supposed to be drilled through.....on the 6's anyway... > >Now I know there's a better way - maybe a retrofit too..... > >I'll give Don a call... > >Thanks >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> >To: >Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 10:17 PM >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Duckworks lenses cracking > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 18, 2007
From: <sam.marlow(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: IYBIIWF
If you build it it will fly, first flight last Thursday, what a rush! Sam Marlow RV10, #40157 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 18, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: OAT probe location
I need to determine the location for the Outside Air Temp probe (OAT). I heard from one builder that placed it on the bottom of the wing on an inspection panel. Are there other god / alternative locations that others have used? Deems Davis # 406 Engine Stuff & Probes/Sensors http://deemsrv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Seat Covering
From: "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net>
Date: Jun 18, 2007
Hello, on page 49-03 in the plans it says to "consult the documentation included with front seat assemblies regarding seat covering". Icant find those would anyone be able to scan them and send them to me? I am interested in how the seat covering will be done so I am happy if you could send me pitures of your front & rearseats. Does the covering use a zipper? Best Regards Michael www.wellenzohn.net -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119315#119315 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 19, 2007
Subject: Re: OAT probe location
Each of my 2 EFIS units and my engine monitor came with a OAT probe. I placed one on the most inboard right inspection panel under the wing and one in each NACA vent. I've seen a lot of posts saying the NACA vents are a bad location for various reasons, but in practice I've never seen the temperature be different more than 1 degree between any of the probes when flying. (On the ground, the sunny side NACA vent probe is typically higher.) -Jim 40134 In a message dated 6/18/2007 10:43:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, deemsdavis(at)cox.net writes: --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis I need to determine the location for the Outside Air Temp probe (OAT). I heard from one builder that placed it on the bottom of the wing on an inspection panel. Are there other god / alternative locations that others have used? Deems Davis # 406 Engine Stuff & Probes/Sensors http://deemsrv10.com/ Jim "Scooter" McGrew _http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 19, 2007
Subject: Re: Seat Covering
That documentation does not exist. I contacted Van's and Oregon Aero lookin g for it, to no avail. Attached is a picture of my seats. I had them covered by a local upholstery shop in Nampa, ID, no documentation required. -Jim 40134 In a message dated 6/19/2007 2:54:32 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net writes: --> RV10-List message posted by: "Michael Wellenzohn" Hello, on page 49-03 in the plans it says to "consult the documentation included with front seat assemblies regarding seat covering". Ican=C2=B4t find those would anyone be able to scan them and send them to me? I am interested in how the seat covering will be done so I am happy if you could send me pitures of your front & rearseats. Does the covering use a zipper? Best Regards Michael www.wellenzohn.net -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Jim "Scooter" McGrew _http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Hunter" <rwhunter(at)integra.net>
Subject: Holes for conduit
Date: Jun 19, 2007
I just decided to use conduit in the wings and was wondering if anyone had an idea on how to make the holes larger with the ribs already riveted on one of the wings. There isn't much space on the inboard part of the wing between the ribs to get a unibit and drill in there. Rob Hunter 40432 Wings -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JSMcGrew(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 5:45 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Seat Covering That documentation does not exist. I contacted Van's and Oregon Aero looking for it, to no avail. Attached is a picture of my seats. I had them covered by a local upholstery shop in Nampa, ID, no documentation required. -Jim 40134 In a message dated 6/19/2007 2:54:32 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net writes: Hello, on page 49-03 in the plans it says to "consult the documentation included with front seat assemblies regarding seat covering". Ican=C2=B4t find those would anyone be able to scan them and send them to me? I am interested in how the seat covering will be done so I am happy if you could send me pitures of your front & rearseats. Does the covering use a zipper? Best Regards Michael www.wellenzohn.net -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Jim "Scooter" McGrew http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew _____ See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2007
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>
Subject: Holes for conduit
Rob; Go to the local airplane parts warehouse and get an extension bit that will fit the unibit. Put the extension thru to the rib that you want drilled, then put the unibit on the the end of the extension. This is what I had to do for the four ribs on the inboard side. A right angle drill works good for the accessible ribs. Also, I would have run another small conduit for the strobe lights. I ended up running my wires with the main bundle. Only time will tell if I get interference with the Bob Archer VOR antennae that I plan to put in the wingtip. Dr Fred 40515 Fuse side panels riveted this weekend. Yea! To Oshgosh first Sunday thru Tues in a 152. Looking forward to 8 hrs of togetherness with my wife. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 19, 2007
Subject: Re: Holes for conduit
Attached are photos of the set up I used to do this. The end piece was made on a lathe with an allen set screw to hold the unibit in place. -Jim 40134 In a message dated 6/19/2007 7:39:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rwhunter(at)integra.net writes: I just decided to use conduit in the wings and was wondering if anyone had an idea on how to make the holes larger with the ribs already riveted on one of the wings. There isn't much space on the inboard part of the wing between the ribs to get a unibit and drill in there. Rob Hunter 40432 Wings Jim "Scooter" McGrew _http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2007
From: "Bob Newman" <rnewman(at)lutron.com>
Subject: Re: OAT probe location
Here's my experience with OAT in Naca scoop. (This is in my Glastar) I had a definite problem with indicated temps running from 7-10 degrees high in stabilized cruise.(during the winter). The OAT probe was mounted in the naca scoop but quite far back towards the scat tube. The root issue was as the amount of air requested by adjusting the eye-ball vent at the end of the scat tube as controlled by me the airflow thru the naca scoop would change. This changed the ballance between cold outside air flow over the oat probe and the amount of heating of the naca scoop from inside the airplane. I could literally adjust the eyeball vent and see a change in the indicated OAT temperature. I'm quite sure that if the OAT probe were moved to near the front of the scoop it would not have had such a dramatic effect. Ultimately I removed the probe from the scoop and mounted at the bottom of the gear leg fairing, just poking out into the slipstream. -Bob >>> JSMcGrew(at)aol.com 6/19/2007 6:11 AM >>> Each of my 2 EFIS units and my engine monitor came with a OAT probe. I placed one on the most inboard right inspection panel under the wing and one in each NACA vent. I've seen a lot of posts saying the NACA vents are a bad location for various reasons, but in practice I've never seen the temperature be different more than 1 degree between any of the probes when flying. (On the ground, the sunny side NACA vent probe is typically higher.) -Jim 40134 In a message dated 6/18/2007 10:43:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, deemsdavis(at)cox.net writes: --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis I need to determine the location for the Outside Air Temp probe (OAT). I heard from one builder that placed it on the bottom of the wing on an inspection panel. Are there other god / alternative locations that others have used? Deems Davis # 406 Engine Stuff & Probes/Sensors http://deemsrv10.com/ Jim "Scooter" McGrew _http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Holes for conduit
Date: Jun 19, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
The way I did it was to leave the original hole, for running the strobe wire through, then I chose the lightning hole forward of the one with the push/pull tube in it, and drilled a small #40 hole above each one and lock wired corrugated tubing in, I did this, so that even if the lock wire fails the tube still can not interfere with the controls, additional I used tractor type grommet material for anti-abrasion on the hole edge to keep chaffing the tube to the minimum. Easy and doable after the bottom skins are on, just have to be a lock wire wiz, and that's why the AP at the airport did it for me, because a wiz I am not! Dan N289DT RV10E (FAA inspection has been scheduled) _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Hunter Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 7:29 AM Subject: RV10-List: Holes for conduit I just decided to use conduit in the wings and was wondering if anyone had an idea on how to make the holes larger with the ribs already riveted on one of the wings. There isn't much space on the inboard part of the wing between the ribs to get a unibit and drill in there. Rob Hunter 40432 Wings -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JSMcGrew(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 5:45 AM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Seat Covering That documentation does not exist. I contacted Van's and Oregon Aero looking for it, to no avail. Attached is a picture of my seats. I had them covered by a local upholstery shop in Nampa, ID, no documentation required. -Jim 40134 In a message dated 6/19/2007 2:54:32 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net writes: Hello, on page 49-03 in the plans it says to "consult the documentation included with front seat assemblies regarding seat covering". Ican=C2=B4t find those would anyone be able to scan them and send them to me? I am interested in how the seat covering will be done so I am happy if you could send me pitures of your front & rearseats. Does the covering use a zipper? Best Regards Michael www.wellenzohn.net -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Jim "Scooter" McGrew http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew _____ See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 19, 2007
Subject: Re: OAT probe location
That makes sense. It sounds like I placed mine a bit further forward than you. -Jim 40134 In a message dated 6/19/2007 9:11:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rnewman(at)lutron.com writes: --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Newman" Here's my experience with OAT in Naca scoop. (This is in my Glastar) I had a definite problem with indicated temps running from 7-10 degrees high in stabilized cruise.(during the winter). The OAT probe was mounted in the naca scoop but quite far back towards the scat tube. The root issue was as the amount of air requested by adjusting the eye-ball vent at the end of the scat tube as controlled by me the airflow thru the naca scoop would change. This changed the ballance between cold outside air flow over the oat probe and the amount of heating of the naca scoop from inside the airplane. I could literally adjust the eyeball vent and see a change in the indicated OAT temperature. I'm quite sure that if the OAT probe were moved to near the front of the scoop it would not have had such a dramatic effect. Ultimately I removed the probe from the scoop and mounted at the bottom of the gear leg fairing, just poking out into the slipstream. -Bob >>> JSMcGrew(at)aol.com 6/19/2007 6:11 AM >>> Each of my 2 EFIS units and my engine monitor came with a OAT probe. I placed one on the most inboard right inspection panel under the wing and one in each NACA vent. I've seen a lot of posts saying the NACA vents are a bad location for various reasons, but in practice I've never seen the temperature be different more than 1 degree between any of the probes when flying. (On the ground, the sunny side NACA vent probe is typically higher.) -Jim 40134 In a message dated 6/18/2007 10:43:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, deemsdavis(at)cox.net writes: --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis I need to determine the location for the Outside Air Temp probe (OAT). I heard from one builder that placed it on the bottom of the wing on an inspection panel. Are there other god / alternative locations that others have used? Deems Davis # 406 Engine Stuff & Probes/Sensors http://deemsrv10.com/ Jim "Scooter" McGrew _http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2007
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: OAT probe location
I'm just wondering.... knowing that factors such as the sun, and engine heat, propwash, exhaust, vent opening/closing, and things like that can affect OAT reading, why do people even consider such poor mounting locations as the NACA inlet, wing root fairing, and places like that.....other than because it's an easy/lazy way to get yourself an OAT reading? Wouldn't it be better just to take 20 extra minutes and run the wires needed to give an accurate indication? On my system it's treated as critical enough that you even have a calibration procedure to adjust for compression effects of flying at 170kts and the slight rise in temp that you get from airspeed changes. It's just disconcerting to see that people just don't really seem to care about some things. (This is not directed at you Bob, so please take no offense) To continue the rant a little, I think i'll start a new post... (I'm just in one of those moods today I guess) Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying Bob Newman wrote: > > Here's my experience with OAT in Naca scoop. (This is in my Glastar) > I had a definite problem with indicated temps running from 7-10 degrees > high in stabilized cruise.(during the winter). The OAT probe was > mounted in the naca scoop but quite far back towards the scat tube. > The root issue was as the amount of air requested by adjusting the > eye-ball vent at the end of the scat tube as controlled by me the > airflow thru the naca scoop would change. This changed the ballance > between cold outside air flow over the oat probe and the amount of > heating of the naca scoop from inside the airplane. I could literally > adjust the eyeball vent and see a change in the indicated OAT > temperature. I'm quite sure that if the OAT probe were moved to near > the front of the scoop it would not have had such a dramatic effect. > Ultimately I removed the probe from the scoop and mounted at the bottom > of the gear leg fairing, just poking out into the slipstream. > > -Bob > >>>> JSMcGrew(at)aol.com 6/19/2007 6:11 AM >>> > > > Each of my 2 EFIS units and my engine monitor came with a OAT probe. I > > placed one on the most inboard right inspection panel under the wing > and one in > each NACA vent. I've seen a lot of posts saying the NACA vents are a > bad > location for various reasons, but in practice I've never seen the > temperature be > different more than 1 degree between any of the probes when flying. (On > the > ground, the sunny side NACA vent probe is typically higher.) > > -Jim > 40134 > > In a message dated 6/18/2007 10:43:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > deemsdavis(at)cox.net writes: > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis > > I need to determine the location for the Outside Air Temp probe (OAT). > I > heard from one builder that placed it on the bottom of the wing on an > > inspection panel. Are there other god / alternative locations that > others have used? > > Deems Davis # 406 > Engine Stuff & Probes/Sensors > http://deemsrv10.com/ > > > > > Jim "Scooter" McGrew > _http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Flight Plan
Date: Jun 19, 2007
From: "Tom Deutsch" <deutscht(at)rhwhotels.com>
What are you flying guys using for your aircraft type when filing a flight plan? Duats doesn't want to recognize RV10 as an aircraft type. Tom Deutsch #40545 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2007
From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Holes for conduit
Rob Hunter wrote: > I just decided to use conduit in the wings and was wondering if anyone > had an idea on how to make the holes larger with the ribs already > riveted on one of the wings. There isn't much space on the inboard > part of the wing between the ribs to get a unibit and drill in there. > > Rob Hunter > 40432 > Wings Faced with this situation on other projects, I used a chuck from a drill that had already been removed and purchased a piece of threaded rod to fit the chuck. I've had to use more than one piece of threaded rod, and they have long nuts to attach them together. The nice thing about Unibits is that they are 'self centering'. For my application, though, I needed a drilled hole, and the threaded rod was too limber for me to be able to hit my target. I was reduced to using a piece of PVC pipe with a plug in the end. I drilled the plug the same size as the threaded rod, and pushed the threaded rod through the hole and attached the chuck with the unibit. I could feed the chuck through the holes I had and the PVC pipe helped center the drill bit where I wanted it. Now, I'm a little older, and a little wiser. In the tool section of your local hardware store, you'll find bit extensions in reasonable to very long lengths. A lot more pricey than threaded rod, they have a 'bushing' with a set screw ...... get ones that fit your Unibit. You can 'stack' them (like I did with the threaded rod) and the PVC trick should work as well. Hope this helps. Linn ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2007
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Instrument Calibration
Ok, here's the promised rant that I'll try to keep short. It's frustrating for me to see people who don't do diligence in their avionics calibration and flight testing. I think we all owe it to our hard work to get flying to make our systems as good as we can, and I really can't fathom some of the lack of follow-through that I sometimes hear. Let me give you 2 examples that are even RV-10 specific... One RV-10 I know of, built for sale, not for personal use, had been flown THROUGH it's flyoff period, and had over 50 hours on it with this issue: The GRT EIS is very nice, but the manual takes some focus to actually read and perform the proper calibrations of some probes. You need to enter scale factors and offsets for various probes that are factor known numbers, and some like fuel calibrations you have to do a little simple math. Well, this particular RV-10 builder didn't enter scale factors and offsets for the oil and fuel pressure sensors, among others. They told me how the "Oil pressure was running too high so I cranked it down about 20psi to get it into the proper range." Well, that doesn't seem to be such a brilliant move, given the transducer calibration numbers were never entered....now that plane is flying with a false reading, with pressure adjusted to show as good....all due to lack of diligence. The same plane had CONSTANT alarms for fuel flow (or maybe it was pressure) due to a similar problem, and I personally saw fuel pressure (or was it flow) readings of 65,000. Hmmm....makes you wonder. Good thing it wasn't built to keep, but built to sell, right? Doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me, because it's still in my freaking insurance pool. Next, there's the RV-10 that exhibits physics-defying fuel flows. Burns something like 11 or 12gph at 25 squared. Takeoff flows are down in that range too. Seems a bit strange to me, given the Lycoming power chart (see http://www.myrv10.com/files/engines/IO540/Lyc-540-Power.pdf) clearly showing that this isn't possible. 25 squared should yield something like 18-19gph. Takeoff flows will be 24-29gph approx. But, the flyoff period is ended, and there's no obligation on anyone's part to perform any calibrations necessary to get accurate readings. I'm just hoping that this perhaps encourages you as builders to try to obtain at least safe, and accurate instrument calibrations for your equipment. You can't do it without reading the manuals, and you probably will have questions and have to ask the manufacturer. Even a pre-built panel from a panel maker will NOT have all of these calibrations performed....we're EXPERIMENTAL, and it's up to the BUILDER to do these things. Why does this matter to me? Because I pay the same insurance company (AIG) to cover my plane as many other builders do, and if someone else has a loss, it affects me. Not to mention the fact that is even bigger...these people are RV-10 building friends, and when we finally lose our first one, which is a statistical inevitability, it's going to be a sad day for all. Let's at least try to get a few good years out of it before this happens so we don't give homebuilding, or RV-10's a bad name. Do your diligence. -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying 245+ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Instrument Calibration
Date: Jun 19, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Good post, as usual, Tim Jack Phillips Finally riveting the tailcone on #40610 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 10:13 AM Subject: RV10-List: Instrument Calibration Ok, here's the promised rant that I'll try to keep short. It's frustrating for me to see people who don't do diligence in their avionics calibration and flight testing. I think we all owe it to our hard work to get flying to make our systems as good as we can, and I really can't fathom some of the lack of follow-through that I sometimes hear. Let me give you 2 examples that are even RV-10 specific... One RV-10 I know of, built for sale, not for personal use, had been flown THROUGH it's flyoff period, and had over 50 hours on it with this issue: The GRT EIS is very nice, but the manual takes some focus to actually read and perform the proper calibrations of some probes. You need to enter scale factors and offsets for various probes that are factor known numbers, and some like fuel calibrations you have to do a little simple math. Well, this particular RV-10 builder didn't enter scale factors and offsets for the oil and fuel pressure sensors, among others. They told me how the "Oil pressure was running too high so I cranked it down about 20psi to get it into the proper range." Well, that doesn't seem to be such a brilliant move, given the transducer calibration numbers were never entered....now that plane is flying with a false reading, with pressure adjusted to show as good....all due to lack of diligence. The same plane had CONSTANT alarms for fuel flow (or maybe it was pressure) due to a similar problem, and I personally saw fuel pressure (or was it flow) readings of 65,000. Hmmm....makes you wonder. Good thing it wasn't built to keep, but built to sell, right? Doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me, because it's still in my freaking insurance pool. Next, there's the RV-10 that exhibits physics-defying fuel flows. Burns something like 11 or 12gph at 25 squared. Takeoff flows are down in that range too. Seems a bit strange to me, given the Lycoming power chart (see http://www.myrv10.com/files/engines/IO540/Lyc-540-Power.pdf) clearly showing that this isn't possible. 25 squared should yield something like 18-19gph. Takeoff flows will be 24-29gph approx. But, the flyoff period is ended, and there's no obligation on anyone's part to perform any calibrations necessary to get accurate readings. I'm just hoping that this perhaps encourages you as builders to try to obtain at least safe, and accurate instrument calibrations for your equipment. You can't do it without reading the manuals, and you probably will have questions and have to ask the manufacturer. Even a pre-built panel from a panel maker will NOT have all of these calibrations performed....we're EXPERIMENTAL, and it's up to the BUILDER to do these things. Why does this matter to me? Because I pay the same insurance company (AIG) to cover my plane as many other builders do, and if someone else has a loss, it affects me. Not to mention the fact that is even bigger...these people are RV-10 building friends, and when we finally lose our first one, which is a statistical inevitability, it's going to be a sad day for all. Let's at least try to get a few good years out of it before this happens so we don't give homebuilding, or RV-10's a bad name. Do your diligence. -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying 245+ _________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2007
From: "Bob Newman" <rnewman(at)lutron.com>
Subject: Re: OAT probe location
Jim, Yours are definetly in a better position than mine were. When we installed them we were going for stealth. But we outsmarted ourselves! >>> JSMcGrew(at)aol.com 6/19/2007 9:27 AM >>> That makes sense. It sounds like I placed mine a bit further forward than you. -Jim 40134 In a message dated 6/19/2007 9:11:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rnewman(at)lutron.com writes: --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Newman" Here's my experience with OAT in Naca scoop. (This is in my Glastar) I had a definite problem with indicated temps running from 7-10 degrees high in stabilized cruise.(during the winter). The OAT probe was mounted in the naca scoop but quite far back towards the scat tube. The root issue was as the amount of air requested by adjusting the eye-ball vent at the end of the scat tube as controlled by me the airflow thru the naca scoop would change. This changed the ballance between cold outside air flow over the oat probe and the amount of heating of the naca scoop from inside the airplane. I could literally adjust the eyeball vent and see a change in the indicated OAT temperature. I'm quite sure that if the OAT probe were moved to near the front of the scoop it would not have had such a dramatic effect. Ultimately I removed the probe from the scoop and mounted at the bottom of the gear leg fairing, just poking out into the slipstream. -Bob >>> JSMcGrew(at)aol.com 6/19/2007 6:11 AM >>> Each of my 2 EFIS units and my engine monitor came with a OAT probe. I placed one on the most inboard right inspection panel under the wing and one in each NACA vent. I've seen a lot of posts saying the NACA vents are a bad location for various reasons, but in practice I've never seen the temperature be different more than 1 degree between any of the probes when flying. (On the ground, the sunny side NACA vent probe is typically higher.) -Jim 40134 In a message dated 6/18/2007 10:43:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, deemsdavis(at)cox.net writes: --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis I need to determine the location for the Outside Air Temp probe (OAT). I heard from one builder that placed it on the bottom of the wing on an inspection panel. Are there other god / alternative locations that others have used? Deems Davis # 406 Engine Stuff & Probes/Sensors http://deemsrv10.com/ Jim "Scooter" McGrew _http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2007
From: "Bob Newman" <rnewman(at)lutron.com>
Subject: Re: OAT probe location
No offense taken. We were adding OAT to an already built plane, before we fully appreciated the effects or criticality of its position. Pulling new wires to a new location in a plane with a very full and complete interior is quite a project. However, given 20/10 hindsight it would have been way less work to do it right the first time !! That mistake I will not make again...(oh yeah, one other thing, when we originally did this, we were VFR only and OAT was just nice to have, now that I have IFR capabilty, the attention to these types of detail moved up by orders of magnitude) -Bob >>> Tim(at)MyRV10.com 6/19/2007 9:32 AM >>> I'm just wondering.... knowing that factors such as the sun, and engine heat, propwash, exhaust, vent opening/closing, and things like that can affect OAT reading, why do people even consider such poor mounting locations as the NACA inlet, wing root fairing, and places like that.....other than because it's an easy/lazy way to get yourself an OAT reading? Wouldn't it be better just to take 20 extra minutes and run the wires needed to give an accurate indication? On my system it's treated as critical enough that you even have a calibration procedure to adjust for compression effects of flying at 170kts and the slight rise in temp that you get from airspeed changes. It's just disconcerting to see that people just don't really seem to care about some things. (This is not directed at you Bob, so please take no offense) To continue the rant a little, I think i'll start a new post... (I'm just in one of those moods today I guess) Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying Bob Newman wrote: > > Here's my experience with OAT in Naca scoop. (This is in my Glastar) > I had a definite problem with indicated temps running from 7-10 degrees > high in stabilized cruise.(during the winter). The OAT probe was > mounted in the naca scoop but quite far back towards the scat tube. > The root issue was as the amount of air requested by adjusting the > eye-ball vent at the end of the scat tube as controlled by me the > airflow thru the naca scoop would change. This changed the ballance > between cold outside air flow over the oat probe and the amount of > heating of the naca scoop from inside the airplane. I could literally > adjust the eyeball vent and see a change in the indicated OAT > temperature. I'm quite sure that if the OAT probe were moved to near > the front of the scoop it would not have had such a dramatic effect. > Ultimately I removed the probe from the scoop and mounted at the bottom > of the gear leg fairing, just poking out into the slipstream. > > -Bob > >>>> JSMcGrew(at)aol.com 6/19/2007 6:11 AM >>> > > > Each of my 2 EFIS units and my engine monitor came with a OAT probe. I > > placed one on the most inboard right inspection panel under the wing > and one in > each NACA vent. I've seen a lot of posts saying the NACA vents are a > bad > location for various reasons, but in practice I've never seen the > temperature be > different more than 1 degree between any of the probes when flying. (On > the > ground, the sunny side NACA vent probe is typically higher.) > > -Jim > 40134 > > In a message dated 6/18/2007 10:43:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > deemsdavis(at)cox.net writes: > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis > > I need to determine the location for the Outside Air Temp probe (OAT). > I > heard from one builder that placed it on the bottom of the wing on an > > inspection panel. Are there other god / alternative locations that > others have used? > > Deems Davis # 406 > Engine Stuff & Probes/Sensors > http://deemsrv10.com/ > > > > > Jim "Scooter" McGrew > _http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: ACS Experimental Door Handle
From: "nick(at)nleonard.com" <nick(at)nleonard.com>
Date: Jun 19, 2007
Has anyone (else) installed the "Experimental Door Handle" set? I worked out the layout and install of the outside flush billet and it came out looking great. I had thought I had worked out how the inside mechanism was going to fit but it will be a little tighter than I thought and will take some "special" engineering (fiberglass work). Has anyone already installed one of these and can provide any guidance and pictures. Sure could use some advise here, other than don't do it/use someting else/what were you thinking. Thanks, Nick -------- Nick Leonard RV-10 (40015) Finish Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119417#119417 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Jun 19, 2007
Subject: Re: OAT probe location
Tim, Starting a fight online? lol..............Did you get some bad mist o ff the Niagara that put you in this mood? INJEST> Dean 805HL _____________________________________________________________ Click to find anyone's secrets with an instant background check http://track.juno.com/s/lc?u=http://tagline.untd.us/fc/Ioyw6iifQigaGWX AtKuF8liLTeAYbuUJEjci6dNHjIpMMyipGnaasc/

Tim,

Starting a fight online?    lol..............Did you g et some bad mist off the Niagara that put you in this mood?  & nbsp; 

INJEST>

Dean    805HL



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From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Jun 19, 2007
Subject: Re: Instrument Calibration
Next, there's the RV-10 that exhibits physics-defying fuel flows. Burns something like 11 or 12gph at 25 squared. Takeoff flows are down in that range too. Seems a bit strange to me, given the Lycoming power chart (see http://www.myrv10.com/files/engines/IO540/Lyc-540-Power.pdf) clearly showing that this isn't possible. 25 squared should yield something like 18-19gph. Takeoff flows will be 24-29gph approx. But, the flyoff period is ended, and there's no obligation on anyone's part to perform any calibrations necessary to get accurate readings. Tim is talking about my O-540 in the above paragraph. I have talked to other people about these numbers and they have seen numbers close to min e but not nearly as high as Tim suggests. I have not ENDED my testing or calibrating as Tim states...........I consider every flight a test fl ight and continue to fine tune the aircraft. I am only reporting the ac tual numbers/Gallons/etc that I am seeing on my plane so far. If it bot hers people that I do that I will cease posting. Safe flying, DEAN _____________________________________________________________ Click to find anyone's secrets with an instant background check http://track.juno.com/s/lc?u=http://tagline.untd.us/fc/Ioyw6iifQigaGWX AtKuF8liLTeAYbuUJEjci6dNHjIpMMyipGnaasc/

Next, there's the RV-10 that exhibits physics-defying fuel flow s.
Burns something like 11 or 12gph at 25 squared.  Takeoff flow s
are down in that range too.  Seems a bit strange to me, given< BR>the Lycoming power chart
(see http://www.myrv10.com/files/engines/IO540/Lyc-540-Power.pdf )
clearly showing that this isn't possible.  25 squar ed should
yield something like 18-19gph.  Takeoff flows will be 24-29gph
approx.  But, the flyoff period is ended, and there's n o obligation
on anyone's part to perform any calibrations necessary t o get
accurate readings.
 

 

Tim is talking about my O-540 in the above paragraph.  I have ta lked to other people about these numbers and they have seen numbers clos e to mine but not nearly as high as Tim suggests.   I have not ENDED my testing or calibrating as Tim states...........I consider ever y flight a test flight and continue to fine tune the aircraft.  I a m only reporting the actual numbers/Gallons/etc that I am seeing on my p lane so far.  If it bothers people that I do that I will cease post ing.  

Safe flying,

DEAN



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From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Flasher
Date: Jun 19, 2007
I need some help from you electronic minded folks. I want to flash the indicator light in my master buss switch when I leave it on by mistake. I bought an auto flasher but it has 4 unlabled pins I tried to hook it up by looking at it but I suspect that the LED in the switch is not drawing enough current to trigger it Has any one designed a flashing circuit? Suggestions Gary 40274 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: ACS Experimental Door Handle
I believe that Rick Sked went this way. Deems nick(at)nleonard.com wrote: > > Has anyone (else) installed the "Experimental Door Handle" set? I worked out the layout and install of the outside flush billet and it came out looking great. I had thought I had worked out how the inside mechanism was going to fit but it will be a little tighter than I thought and will take some "special" engineering (fiberglass work). > > Has anyone already installed one of these and can provide any guidance and pictures. Sure could use some advise here, other than don't do it/use someting else/what were you thinking. > > Thanks, > Nick > > -------- > Nick Leonard > RV-10 (40015) Finish > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119417#119417 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com>
Subject: Re: Flasher
Date: Jun 19, 2007
Just use a B&C LR3C alternator controller (voltage regulator). It has a low voltage warning light that automatically flashes whenever the alternator isn't charging. Randy RV-3B ----- Original Message ----- From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 9:53 AM Subject: RV10-List: Flasher > > I need some help from you electronic minded folks. I want to flash the > indicator light in my master buss switch when I leave it on by mistake. I > bought an auto flasher but it has 4 unlabled pins I tried to hook it up by > looking at it but I suspect that the LED in the switch is not drawing > enough > current to trigger it > > Has any one designed a flashing circuit? Suggestions > Gary > 40274 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Instrument Calibration
Date: Jun 19, 2007
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Regardless of instrumentation, gallons needed to top off the tank, etc. a Lycoming engine has a BSFC (brake specific fuel comsumption) of around .43-.48 depending on leaning and exact RPM. A fuel injected engine with electronic ignition and a balanced set of GAMI injectors will do a bit better - maybe getting down around .40. This fuel consumption rate is driven by the physics of the engine design. This BSFC is specified as pounds of fuel per horsepower per hour. This is horsepower being produced, not the rated horsepower. As an example, a 260 HP engine at 75% (rough performance at 8000 feet) is producing only 195 HP. Using the low end of the BSFC range we get: 195 HP * .43 = 83.85 pounds per hour. That divided by 6 (avgas weight per gallon) equals 13.975 gallons per hour which very closely matches a Lycoming power chart. Producing more HP (lower altitude for example) would burn more fuel. Obviously doing something like running lean of peak you'll do better but it's not likely to be something you're going to be doing down low. For reference, below is an extract from an article on proper leaning of an engine and expected fuel consumption results. Note that the Aztec with a 250 HP engine is very close to what we're dealing with. Also note that if you use the above formula you wind up with a BSFC of .4352 when leaned for best economy: Leaning the normally aspirated, direct drive Lycoming engine at cruise vs. full rich at 4,000 feet density altitude, 75% power Engine Model Airplane Model 300 HP Piper Cherokee 300 Full Rich Best Economy (Peak EGT) Hours Rich Hours Lean 19+ gals 15.6 gals. 4.2 hrs. 5.1 hrs. Engine Model Airplane Model 250 HP Piper Aztec Full Rich Best Economy (Peak EGT) Hours Rich Hours Lean 16.2 gals 13.6 gals. 4.3 hrs. 5.1 hrs. Engine Model Airplane Model 180 HP Cessna Cardinal Full Rich Best Economy (Peak EGT) Hours Rich Hours Lean 11.9 gals 9.7 gals. 4.1 hrs. 5.1 hrs. There are a lot of possibilities but none of them include modifying the engine physics. So what are the possibilities? Maybe not producing expected horsepower for a variety of reasons (compression issue, tach reading high, etc), fuel flow not calibrated, bad measurement of fuel to top off tank, etc. Hopefully Dean will post the results of his additional testing so we can all learn from it so when it's time for our own testing we'll be better prepared with real life examples. Bob #40105 STILL finishing up - wishing all I had left to do was resolve issues like this... _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ddddsp1(at)juno.com Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 11:49 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Instrument Calibration Next, there's the RV-10 that exhibits physics-defying fuel flows. Burns something like 11 or 12gph at 25 squared. Takeoff flows are down in that range too. Seems a bit strange to me, given the Lycoming power chart (see http://www.myrv10.com/files/engines/IO540/Lyc-540-Power.pdf <http://www.myrv10.com/files/engines/IO540/Lyc-540-Power.pdf> ) clearly showing that this isn't possible. 25 squared should yield something like 18-19gph. Takeoff flows will be 24-29gph approx. But, the flyoff period is ended, and there's no obligation on anyone's part to perform any calibrations necessary to get accurate readings. Tim is talking about my O-540 in the above paragraph. I have talked to other people about these numbers and they have seen numbers close to mine but not nearly as high as Tim suggests. I have not ENDED my testing or calibrating as Tim states...........I consider every flight a test flight and continue to fine tune the aircraft. I am only reporting the actual numbers/Gallons/etc that I am seeing on my plane so far. If it bothers people that I do that I will cease posting. Safe flying, DEAN _____________________________________________________________ Click to find anyone's secrets with an instant background check <http://track.juno.com/s/lc?u=http://tagline.untd.us/fc/Ioyw6iifQigaGWX A tKuF8liLTeAYbuUJEjci6dNHjIpMMyipGnaasc/> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2007
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: ACS Experimental Door Handle
Yes I have those handles and they do require some door mods, nothing major. The area aft of the handle in the door pocket needs to be cut away to allow the assembly to fit in the door. and you need to put a shallow Z bend in the pushrod to allow it to go from the inner door panel up to the attach point on the handle. Don't don't glue the area in the door handle pocket, the recess of the handle is only as thich as the outer door skin. Cut this out prior to glueing the door inner skin. After the doors are assembled you can add pieces of the glass back to the outer skin above and below the door hadle assembly. I am making door ulpholstery skins that will be covered ala the Deem's method. I will add spacers to the interior handle so that it exits the finished door panel via a hole the same size as the handle barrel. I made different handles for the interior that are similar to the Coss Aviation handles out of some 3/16 2024 aluminum with lightening holes and then polished to a nice finish. There will be no recess for my interior handles, the only thing you will see it the handle, spaced out from the door just enough to allow you to move it forward and aft. I am still considering a spring lock of some kind but the latches do over center well and it should not be needed but I may do it to stop an inadvertent movement of the latch. A simple pip pin may work fine or a spring loaed pin that you pull to release the handle to move. I have not finished this part of the doors yet. I do plan on laying up some fiberglass over the entire latch mechanisim to add some strength back to the door panel. I have disassembled the latch to see fi there might be some wear issues in the future, any of the parts that may wear can be removed from the latch and replaced so permantly mounting the main part should not be an issue. Be warned that there are a few springs and little pieces on the interior that will fly if you not careful. I took mine aprt inside a large, clear ziplock bag. If I hadn't done this I am sure I would have lost! parts. The manufacturer warns against disassembly for this reason. My Dad told me the same thing about flashlights and that didn't stop me from doing it. I feel pretty confident in my mechanical skills so I chanced it. If I had to do it over I might have gone with the Coss handles becasue they are designed to fit in the pocket molded in the doors. Mine work fine, I just need to layup my finish panels to show how it will look when done. I can't post any pics till next week. I on the road till Sunday night. Rick S. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Flasher
Date: Jun 19, 2007
I am not real anxious to trash my current system with internal regulators and start over. I had thought of that though. I wonder if they have just the warning circuit available. Gary 40274 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Lervold Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 12:38 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flasher Just use a B&C LR3C alternator controller (voltage regulator). It has a low voltage warning light that automatically flashes whenever the alternator isn't charging. Randy RV-3B ----- Original Message ----- From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 9:53 AM Subject: RV10-List: Flasher > > I need some help from you electronic minded folks. I want to flash the > indicator light in my master buss switch when I leave it on by mistake. I > bought an auto flasher but it has 4 unlabled pins I tried to hook it up by > looking at it but I suspect that the LED in the switch is not drawing > enough > current to trigger it > > Has any one designed a flashing circuit? Suggestions > Gary > 40274 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: ACS Experimental Door Handle
From: "nick(at)nleonard.com" <nick(at)nleonard.com>
Date: Jun 19, 2007
Thanks for your reply about the door handles. The one thing that I like about these handles are the clean/flush exterior and the ability to get an extra keyed lock ($16) for the baggage door. Their full-sized drawings turned out not to be, but the dimensions were all that was needed to get a good layout. An over-center spring mechanism on the assembly shouldn't be too hard to add and would no doubt improve the overall design. I'm contemplating connecting the aft (long) rod to the inner-most (outside) tang of the rear handle assembly rather than to the through bolt (screw). This should keep it behind the existing inner door panel. This can't be done with the forward rod so an offset bend after the locking tumbler seems to be one option or just adding a slight raised area to the length of the forward section of the inner door panel is the other option. Because of the changing angles of the push rods, unlike the original straight design, I plan on adding a rod-end hinge point just inside of the rod exit points at the ends of the doors. Any suggestions, one way or the other, from your experiences? I would love to see any pictures that you may have, as I'm sure that they will help, especially with the handle design. Nick -------- Nick Leonard RV-10 (40015) Finish Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119479#119479 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2007
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: ACS Experimental Door Handle
Oh yeah, don't follow the full size drawing, redraw it using their dimensions. I was smart enough to make a cardboard cutout from their drawing and the assembly did not fit in it, when I drew it out based on the dimensions it fit like a glove. Rick S. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Hunter" <rwhunter(at)integra.net>
Subject: Holes for conduit
Date: Jun 19, 2007
Thanks everyone for your ideas. This truly is a great group with tons of ideas and experience. Rob Wings 40432 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 9:04 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Holes for conduit Rob Hunter wrote: I just decided to use conduit in the wings and was wondering if anyone had an idea on how to make the holes larger with the ribs already riveted on one of the wings. There isn't much space on the inboard part of the wing between the ribs to get a unibit and drill in there. Rob Hunter 40432 Wings Faced with this situation on other projects, I used a chuck from a drill that had already been removed and purchased a piece of threaded rod to fit the chuck. I've had to use more than one piece of threaded rod, and they have long nuts to attach them together. The nice thing about Unibits is that they are 'self centering'. For my application, though, I needed a drilled hole, and the threaded rod was too limber for me to be able to hit my target. I was reduced to using a piece of PVC pipe with a plug in the end. I drilled the plug the same size as the threaded rod, and pushed the threaded rod through the hole and attached the chuck with the unibit. I could feed the chuck through the holes I had and the PVC pipe helped center the drill bit where I wanted it. Now, I'm a little older, and a little wiser. In the tool section of your local hardware store, you'll find bit extensions in reasonable to very long lengths. A lot more pricey than threaded rod, they have a 'bushing' with a set screw ...... get ones that fit your Unibit. You can 'stack' them (like I did with the threaded rod) and the PVC trick should work as well. Hope this helps. Linn ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2007
From: "Rick Leach" <papadaddyo(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: panel
I have been really looking hard at the OP system. I spoke with them at Sun-n-fun and I am pretty impressed with the system. (Of course the vendor is going to make it look real good.) Has anyone else looked at the op system compared to the Chelton? If so, what do you think. I like the integrated idea and it actually seems to offer more than the G900, i.e. synthetic flight. Comments! Rick Leach 40397 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2007
From: "Rick Leach" <papadaddyo(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Batteries
Not to start the battery wars again but has anyone installed 2 PC680 batteries and put one up front somewhere, ie. Firewall. If so, where does it fit and how is it on W&B. I know Tim has smaller batteries under his seat I believe. Rick Leach 40397 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jdalton77" <jdalton77(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Cheetah FL190
Date: Jun 19, 2007
Anyone seen this/bought this. It is a portable GPS/XM Weather/Appraoch Plates, etc. unit for $1895 + 500 for the XM. Any pireps? Jeff Dalton Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2007
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Batteries
I have two 680's but they are both in the back. Due to the weight factor I suggest you keep as much controlable weight aft of the CG. Although I have not finished mine yet, all information to date indicates a the -10 flies better with more weight aft of the CG. With the CG at the forward limit the aircraft requires more aft stick to develop a nice flare. Little flight experience but lots of reading about it. YMMV. Rick S. 40185 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris" <toaster73(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Instrument Calibration
Date: Jun 19, 2007
One has to be careful of accuracy and repeatability when it comes to thermocouple and instrument calibration. What does the company qoute as the thermocouple type that will be used to take the measurement? Is it a K type thermocouple which could be off as much as 1.5 degrees C. or other common types which would be similar in accuracy. How well is the tip standing up to the elements/corrosion/moisture? This can change the voltage across the circuit and lead to further error over time. Just because you have it mounted in the "best" spot doesn't mean you are reading with any better accuracy than the instrument capability. Is 1.5 deg C going to be good enough - the capability of your device? I ask the question to all the EFIS types...what are your probe/transducer types and there response and accuracy, and are they traced to a calibration standard and back to NIS??? How often should transducers and temps be calibrated or does it need calibrating? Hopefully, your reading 1.5 degree C wrong such that when it is really 0 C you are reading -1.5 C so as to give you concern. Best to check it in an ice bath, and boiling water too on occasion, or stick it under your tongue. -Chris #40072 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 3:57 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Instrument Calibration > > And, to add to Eric's, being off by 1 degree in a cloud can mean ice, or > no ice, so it's kind of something that you'd like to have very accurate. > If you weren't flying IFR, then you really don't need any OAT probe > at all...but if you're flying IFR, you'd not only want one, but one > that will warn you of impending icing conditions before you > see it build on the wings. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2007
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: panel
Rick, You really need to hook up with Deems Davis, he is our OP pioneer in the group. go to www.deemsrv10.com Rick S. 40185 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: ACS Experimental Door Handle
Nick, here's a link to some pics that do what your talking about. The 'Bullets' were obtained from Coss. http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2045%20Cabin%20Doors%20and%20Transparancies/slides/DSC03652.html Deems Davis # 406 Baffling / Plenum / Engine Stuff http://deemsrv10.com/ nick(at)nleonard.com wrote: > --> RV1 > Because of the changing angles of the push rods, unlike the original straight design, I plan on adding a rod-end hinge point just inside of the rod exit points at the ends of the doors. > > Any suggestions, one way or the other, from your experiences? I would love to see any pictures that you may have, > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kilopapa(at)antelecom.net
Subject: Re: Flasher
Date: Jun 19, 2007
Gary, You are right on the auto flasher. It requires the greater load of standard bulbs to heat the bimetal strip on the mechanical types. Try this link for one source of flashing leds - http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category/340200/Flashing.html If you can replace your current led you could substitute a flashing version. Kevin 40494 ----- Original Message Follows ----- > > >I need some help from you electronic minded folks. I want >to flash the indicator light in my master buss switch when >I leave it on by mistake. I bought an auto flasher but it >has 4 unlabled pins I tried to hook it up by looking at it >but I suspect that the LED in the switch is not drawing >enough current to trigger it > >Has any one designed a flashing circuit? Suggestions >Gary >40274 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Holes for conduit
From: "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net>
Date: Jun 20, 2007
Rob, I used the extension sold by Avery tools, it worked well with a step drill installed. The maximum diameter of the stepdrill was the one required to pull Vans conduit trough. Michael www.wellenzohn.net -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119584#119584 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 20, 2007
From: "Rick Leach" <papadaddyo(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: panel
Thanks -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 10:47 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: panel Rick, You really need to hook up with Deems Davis, he is our OP pioneer in the group. go to www.deemsrv10.com Rick S. 40185 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Batteries
Date: Jun 20, 2007
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
I have a pair of PC-680s but they are in the standard battery location (minor mod to the battery tray). Bob #40105 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Leach Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 8:47 PM Subject: RV10-List: Batteries Not to start the battery wars again but has anyone installed 2 PC680 batteries and put one up front somewhere, ie. Firewall. If so, where does it fit and how is it on W&B. I know Tim has smaller batteries under his seat I believe. Rick Leach 40397 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: panel
Date: Jun 20, 2007
To my knowledge Deems Davis and I are the only ones who have purchased OP. Deems used the displays driven by Garmin 430/530 and SL 40. I have OP integrated system with their Becker radios, air data computer, audio panel,etc. Contact me with any questions. I too am impressed with the system but their deliveries too have suffered. Order early. Gary _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Leach Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 8:46 PM Subject: RV10-List: panel I have been really looking hard at the OP system. I spoke with them at Sun-n-fun and I am pretty impressed with the system. (Of course the vendor is going to make it look real good.) Has anyone else looked at the op system compared to the Chelton? If so, what do you think. I like the integrated idea and it actually seems to offer more than the G900, i.e. synthetic flight. Comments! Rick Leach 40397 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 20, 2007
From: "Bob Newman" <rnewman(at)lutron.com>
Subject: Instrument panel update-
I'm going to provide some info regarding our recent update and learning experience in converting our Glastar from a steam gauge based VFR machine to an IFR capable glass panel machine. This experience has been extremely valuable in preparation for the instrument panel I plan to build for my RV-10. Background. My dad and I built our Glastar and flew it May of '99, instrumentation was essentially all second hand steam gauges, a KT76 transponder and a Garmin 250xl com/gps. We flew this until the summer of 2006, at which time we began the planning for our new panel. The goal was to make an IFR comfortable and safe plane. Here's what went in: Garmin 530 nav,com,gps +GI-106A CDI/OBS, Garmin 340 audio panel, Garmin 327 transponder, Dynon D-100 EFIS Here's what we re-used: Garmin 250 XL com-gps, Navaid single axis autopilot At this point everything is working very well, However, many items took some digging to uncover and resolve the issues. See photo attached of our new panel. Lessons Learned: 1) Wet compass: We wanted the compass to be panel mounted, not up on top of the glare shield, and in the old panel it worked fine. However, in the new panel the compass did not work at all, no adjustments to the compensation magnets would bring the compass in line. Ultimate problem: residual magnetism in the spiral steel wire in the scat tube that fed the eyeball vent right near the compass. Using a gauss-o-meter I sniffed out the magnetism in the scat tube and ultimately changed the scat tube to a type that uses a poly-plastic helic coil. (available from McMaster-Carr). Now the compass works. 2) Navaid autopilot wouldn't listen to the Garmin 530, however it worked fine with the Garmin 250xl: Solution: One of the RS-232 settings that is selectable in the Garmin 530 is called "aviation data format-no altitude" this is the one that the Navaid autopilot needs, it cannot accept aviation data with altitude. 3) Limitation of the Garmin 530's RS-232 selectable ports: ONLY one may be set up in the aviation data format. If you have multiple devices which need this format you may have a problem. I ran into this with the Dynon and the Navaid autopilot, since both need aviation data format and the Navaid device cannot accept the data with altitude in it, I cannot see the GPS reported altitude on the Dynon's HSI screen. (minor detail, but annoying) 4) The Dynon's new HSI split screen software update. Awesome for en route procedures but the thickness of the CDI line presented on the HSI is just too fat to shoot a really nice ILS approach. I know the GPS mode is for reference only and I'm going to get flamed for this, but I'm just observing that the representation on the glass panel is not as good as the analog CDI needle. 5) Antenna cable connections: The new antennas we added for the panel update all had Mil spec crimp-on BNC style connectors, assemble with the real crimp tooling, However, two of the old antennas, (com1 and transponder) had aftermarket style push on BNC connectors. (which worked fine for 7 years) Well after all the shuffling around under the instrument panel the shield termination on com1 became intermittent and we had corresponding intermittent problems communicating on our fancy new Garmin 530. Changed all connectors, problem resolved. 6) Static system leaks: passing the static system check was a royal pain, our second hand steam gauge airspeed indicator had a static leak around the temperature compensation knob. Tracking down static leaks is a slow process! 7) Transponder: I always had trouble entering transponder codes into our old KT76, I couldn't turn the knobs fast enough to keep up with ATC. Well, if you haven't had the pleasure of a transponder like the Garmin 327, it is huge, huge improvement. The direct entry of numbers into the keypad let's me enter the numbers as ATC gives them to me, awesome! 8) Tied for #1 favorite thing on the new panel: The wind arrow and the track triangle on the HSI. Wow, these two things dramatically improved how I handle the plane. More later. -Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Flasher
Date: Jun 20, 2007
I can't use flashing LED because I am using the LED in the switch itself and thus need to use the one designed for the switch. Thanks for the thought. I have found a good soul to assist me so I think we have this issue licked. Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kilopapa(at)antelecom.net Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 12:14 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flasher Gary, You are right on the auto flasher. It requires the greater load of standard bulbs to heat the bimetal strip on the mechanical types. Try this link for one source of flashing leds - http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category/340200/Flashing.html If you can replace your current led you could substitute a flashing version. Kevin 40494 ----- Original Message Follows ----- > > >I need some help from you electronic minded folks. I want >to flash the indicator light in my master buss switch when >I leave it on by mistake. I bought an auto flasher but it >has 4 unlabled pins I tried to hook it up by looking at it >but I suspect that the LED in the switch is not drawing >enough current to trigger it > >Has any one designed a flashing circuit? Suggestions >Gary >40274 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com>
Subject: panel
Date: Jun 20, 2007
I've been leaning in the OP direction lately. I really like the sceen size and the way the additional screen size is put to use. Gary, do you happen to know what the OP lead times are right now? Patrick -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 6:20 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: panel To my knowledge Deems Davis and I are the only ones who have purchased OP. Deems used the displays driven by Garmin 430/530 and SL 40. I have OP integrated system with their Becker radios, air data computer, audio panel,etc. Contact me with any questions. I too am impressed with the system but their deliveries too have suffered. Order early. Gary _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Leach Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 8:46 PM Subject: RV10-List: panel I have been really looking hard at the OP system. I spoke with them at Sun-n-fun and I am pretty impressed with the system. (Of course the vendor is going to make it look real good.) Has anyone else looked at the op system compared to the Chelton? If so, what do you think. I like the integrated idea and it actually seems to offer more than the G900, i.e. synthetic flight. Comments! Rick Leach 40397 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Hukill" <cjhukill(at)cox.net>
Subject: OAT probe
Date: Jun 20, 2007
I just mounted an OAT probe during my RV8 panel remodel. Since I had to mount the magnetometer in the wingtip, and the OAT probe hooks up to that, I mounted the probe in the aft part of the tip, where it is shaded by the white wing tip, but is still exposed to the airflow. It's mounted thru the outboard rib, with the probe portion extending outboard into the void between the rib, and the tip rib. If you look forward into the gap between the aileron and tip you can see it, but it's shaded, and the air moves in that area. Works great. Chris Hukill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 20, 2007
From: "James K Hovis" <james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Instrument Calibration
OAT readings are affected by whether the air is compressed. Compressed air heats up. Now, air in an engine inlet duct will compress somewhat compared to the free-stream (also depends on the suction of the engine) but shouldn't be compressed that much to severely impact the accuracy of a probe reading. Different placements on the exterior of an aircraft may affect the reading too. Some areas that have higher or lower pressures will increase or decrease the temperature but again to only a slight degree at the speeds we're talking about. Best place to me is anywhere on the airplane not close to a heat source (i.e. in the engine compartment or aft of the cooling air outlet.). My old Grumman had the OAT probe in the windshield. Somewhere on top of the airplane (or maybe the vertical tail leading edge) would be my optimum choice. Kevin H. On 6/19/07, Chris wrote: > > One has to be careful of accuracy and repeatability when it comes to > thermocouple and instrument calibration. What does the company qoute as the > thermocouple type that will be used to take the measurement? Is it a K type > thermocouple which could be off as much as 1.5 degrees C. or other common > types which would be similar in accuracy. How well is the tip standing up > to the elements/corrosion/moisture? This can change the voltage across the > circuit and lead to further error over time. Just because you have it > mounted in the "best" spot doesn't mean you are reading with any better > accuracy than the instrument capability. Is 1.5 deg C going to be good > enough - the capability of your device? > I ask the question to all the EFIS types...what are your probe/transducer > types and there response and accuracy, and are they traced to a calibration > standard and back to NIS??? How often should transducers and temps be > calibrated or does it need calibrating? > Hopefully, your reading 1.5 degree C wrong such that when it is really 0 C > you are reading -1.5 C so as to give you concern. Best to check it in an ice > bath, and boiling water too on occasion, or stick it under your tongue. > -Chris > #40072 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 3:57 PM > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Instrument Calibration > > > > > > And, to add to Eric's, being off by 1 degree in a cloud can mean ice, or > > no ice, so it's kind of something that you'd like to have very accurate. > > If you weren't flying IFR, then you really don't need any OAT probe > > at all...but if you're flying IFR, you'd not only want one, but one > > that will warn you of impending icing conditions before you > > see it build on the wings. > > > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Aircraft type N number
Date: Jun 20, 2007
From: <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero>
"I'm also going to start putting "NOT A CIRRUS" in the comments, because I had to listed to ATC keep calling me "CIRRUS 104CD" about a million times this weekend, despite my repeated callbacks of "experimental"." Well, Tim, I think you brought that on yourself with your choice of N-Number! TDT 40025 N52KS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: panel
Date: Jun 20, 2007
I do not, sorry Still waiting for the wiring harness from them. They promised next week. Gary _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick ONeill Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:48 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: panel I've been leaning in the OP direction lately. I really like the sceen size and the way the additional screen size is put to use. Gary, do you happen to know what the OP lead times are right now? Patrick -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 6:20 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: panel To my knowledge Deems Davis and I are the only ones who have purchased OP. Deems used the displays driven by Garmin 430/530 and SL 40. I have OP integrated system with their Becker radios, air data computer, audio panel,etc. Contact me with any questions. I too am impressed with the system but their deliveries too have suffered. Order early. Gary _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Leach Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 8:46 PM Subject: RV10-List: panel I have been really looking hard at the OP system. I spoke with them at Sun-n-fun and I am pretty impressed with the system. (Of course the vendor is going to make it look real good.) Has anyone else looked at the op system compared to the Chelton? If so, what do you think. I like the integrated idea and it actually seems to offer more than the G900, i.e. synthetic flight. Comments! Rick Leach 40397 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Flasher
Date: Jun 20, 2007
Gary, just curious, if you do this without a low voltage sense circuit that is killed when the master is off, how are you planning on de-activating the "reminder" flasher with the master off. I am guessing with a relay that kills the flasher when the master is on but if it flashes with the master off, how will you turn it off for real? The option with the LV warning is 1) off with the engine running because the voltage is up (charging) and 2) blinks when the master is on, engine off, but sensing only battery voltage, then off with the master? How do you accomplish all that with just a flasher relay? Just another thought which is much cheaper than the B&C Reg with LV might be to wire a low oil pressure switch in to the main buss so that it flashes when the master is on but engine off and then off when running. It's each to add to the third manifold port where the OP and FP sensors go. $32 from B&C This link shows it wired through a Hobbs meter and a buzzer but you could just drop the meter and buzzer and substitute your flashing LED. BTW, you can get a "flashing" LED with resistor from Radio Shack in four colors for about $3. http://www.bandc.biz/S8012dwg.pdf Hope this helps. Bill S 7a Ark -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kilopapa(at)antelecom.net Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 12:14 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flasher Gary, You are right on the auto flasher. It requires the greater load of standard bulbs to heat the bimetal strip on the mechanical types. Try this link for one source of flashing leds - http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category/340200/Flashing.html If you can replace your current led you could substitute a flashing version. Kevin 40494 ----- Original Message Follows ----- > > >I need some help from you electronic minded folks. I want to flash the >indicator light in my master buss switch when I leave it on by mistake. >I bought an auto flasher but it has 4 unlabled pins I tried to hook it >up by looking at it but I suspect that the LED in the switch is not >drawing enough current to trigger it > >Has any one designed a flashing circuit? Suggestions Gary >40274 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com>
Subject: panel
Date: Jun 20, 2007
In case anyone is interested, OP says lead time right now on the standard systems is 4-5 weeks, and 6 weeks on the integrated. I'm not sure if that is accurate or not, but that is what the vendor is saying. Patrick _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick ONeill Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 6:48 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: panel I've been leaning in the OP direction lately. I really like the sceen size and the way the additional screen size is put to use. Gary, do you happen to know what the OP lead times are right now? Patrick -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 6:20 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: panel To my knowledge Deems Davis and I are the only ones who have purchased OP. Deems used the displays driven by Garmin 430/530 and SL 40. I have OP integrated system with their Becker radios, air data computer, audio panel,etc. Contact me with any questions. I too am impressed with the system but their deliveries too have suffered. Order early. Gary _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Leach Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 8:46 PM Subject: RV10-List: panel I have been really looking hard at the OP system. I spoke with them at Sun-n-fun and I am pretty impressed with the system. (Of course the vendor is going to make it look real good.) Has anyone else looked at the op system compared to the Chelton? If so, what do you think. I like the integrated idea and it actually seems to offer more than the G900, i.e. synthetic flight. Comments! Rick Leach 40397 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2007
From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net>
Subject: Re: Instrument panel update-
Hi Bob, wait until you upload the newest software coming out in the next weeks, you can have your wind vector on the main page (EFIS) , some new bugs on the compass as well, glideslope directly in the EFIS page, finally a VSI tape and a speed trend, all selectable one by one. See some of it here: <http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1177624749> br Werner Bob Newman wrote: > I'm going to provide some info regarding our recent update and learning > experience in converting our Glastar from a steam gauge based VFR > machine to an IFR capable glass panel machine. This experience has > been extremely valuable in preparation for the instrument panel I plan > to build for my RV-10. > > Background. My dad and I built our Glastar and flew it May of '99, > instrumentation was essentially all second hand steam gauges, a KT76 > transponder and a Garmin 250xl com/gps. We flew this until the summer > of 2006, at which time we began the planning for our new panel. The > goal was to make an IFR comfortable and safe plane. > > > Here's what went in: Garmin 530 nav,com,gps +GI-106A CDI/OBS, > Garmin 340 audio panel, Garmin 327 > transponder, > Dynon D-100 EFIS > > Here's what we re-used: Garmin 250 XL com-gps, Navaid single axis > autopilot > > > At this point everything is working very well, However, many items > took some digging to uncover and resolve the issues. > > See photo attached of our new panel. > > > Lessons Learned: > > 1) Wet compass: We wanted the compass to be panel mounted, not up on > top of the glare shield, and in the old panel it worked fine. However, > in the new panel the compass did not work at all, no adjustments to the > compensation magnets would bring the compass in line. Ultimate > problem: residual magnetism in the spiral steel wire in the scat tube > that fed the eyeball vent right near the compass. Using a gauss-o-meter > I sniffed out the magnetism in the scat tube and ultimately changed the > scat tube to a type that uses a poly-plastic helic coil. (available from > McMaster-Carr). Now the compass works. > > 2) Navaid autopilot wouldn't listen to the Garmin 530, however it > worked fine with the Garmin 250xl: Solution: One of the RS-232 > settings that is selectable in the Garmin 530 is called "aviation data > format-no altitude" this is the one that the Navaid autopilot needs, it > cannot accept aviation data with altitude. > > 3) Limitation of the Garmin 530's RS-232 selectable ports: ONLY one > may be set up in the aviation data format. If you have multiple > devices which need this format you may have a problem. I ran into > this with the Dynon and the Navaid autopilot, since both need aviation > data format and the Navaid device cannot accept the data with altitude > in it, I cannot see the GPS reported altitude on the Dynon's HSI > screen. (minor detail, but annoying) > > 4) The Dynon's new HSI split screen software update. Awesome > for en route procedures but the thickness of the CDI line presented on > the HSI is just too fat to shoot a really nice ILS approach. I know > the GPS mode is for reference only and I'm going to get flamed for this, > but I'm just observing that the representation on the glass panel is not > as good as the analog CDI needle. > > 5) Antenna cable connections: The new antennas we added for the > panel update all had Mil spec crimp-on BNC style connectors, assemble > with the real crimp tooling, However, two of the old antennas, (com1 > and transponder) had aftermarket style push on BNC connectors. (which > worked fine for 7 years) Well after all the shuffling around under the > instrument panel the shield termination on com1 became intermittent and > we had corresponding intermittent problems communicating on our fancy > new Garmin 530. Changed all connectors, problem resolved. > > 6) Static system leaks: passing the static system check was a > royal pain, our second hand steam gauge airspeed indicator had a static > leak around the temperature compensation knob. Tracking down static > leaks is a slow process! > > 7) Transponder: I always had trouble entering transponder codes > into our old KT76, I couldn't turn the knobs fast enough to keep up > with ATC. Well, if you haven't had the pleasure of a transponder > like the Garmin 327, it is huge, huge improvement. The direct entry of > numbers into the keypad let's me enter the numbers as ATC gives them to > me, awesome! > > 8) Tied for #1 favorite thing on the new panel: The wind arrow and > the track triangle on the HSI. Wow, these two things dramatically > improved how I handle the plane. > > > More later. > > -Bob > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2007
From: Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: parking brake cable
What sort of cable/control should I order for my Matco Parking Brake? Vendor? Where have others terminated it under the panel? Thanks in advance for replies! Cheers, Jay Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2007
From: "Bob Newman" <rnewman(at)lutron.com>
Subject: Re: Instrument panel update-
I'm patiently waiting, ( I check the update section of the Dynon website daily) I think the movement of the altitude and airspeed info on to the center-line of the atitude display will be a big improvement over its current location at the top of the screen. -bob >>> glastar(at)gmx.net 6/21/2007 3:44 AM >>> Hi Bob, wait until you upload the newest software coming out in the next weeks, you can have your wind vector on the main page (EFIS) , some new bugs on the compass as well, glideslope directly in the EFIS page, finally a VSI tape and a speed trend, all selectable one by one. See some of it here: <http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1177624749> br Werner Bob Newman wrote: > I'm going to provide some info regarding our recent update and learning > experience in converting our Glastar from a steam gauge based VFR > machine to an IFR capable glass panel machine. This experience has > been extremely valuable in preparation for the instrument panel I plan > to build for my RV-10. > > Background. My dad and I built our Glastar and flew it May of '99, > instrumentation was essentially all second hand steam gauges, a KT76 > transponder and a Garmin 250xl com/gps. We flew this until the summer > of 2006, at which time we began the planning for our new panel. The > goal was to make an IFR comfortable and safe plane. > > > Here's what went in: Garmin 530 nav,com,gps +GI-106A CDI/OBS, > Garmin 340 audio panel, Garmin 327 > transponder, > Dynon D-100 EFIS > > Here's what we re-used: Garmin 250 XL com-gps, Navaid single axis > autopilot > > > At this point everything is working very well, However, many items > took some digging to uncover and resolve the issues. > > See photo attached of our new panel. > > > Lessons Learned: > > 1) Wet compass: We wanted the compass to be panel mounted, not up on > top of the glare shield, and in the old panel it worked fine. However, > in the new panel the compass did not work at all, no adjustments to the > compensation magnets would bring the compass in line. Ultimate > problem: residual magnetism in the spiral steel wire in the scat tube > that fed the eyeball vent right near the compass. Using a gauss-o-meter > I sniffed out the magnetism in the scat tube and ultimately changed the > scat tube to a type that uses a poly-plastic helic coil. (available from > McMaster-Carr). Now the compass works. > > 2) Navaid autopilot wouldn't listen to the Garmin 530, however it > worked fine with the Garmin 250xl: Solution: One of the RS-232 > settings that is selectable in the Garmin 530 is called "aviation data > format-no altitude" this is the one that the Navaid autopilot needs, it > cannot accept aviation data with altitude. > > 3) Limitation of the Garmin 530's RS-232 selectable ports: ONLY one > may be set up in the aviation data format. If you have multiple > devices which need this format you may have a problem. I ran into > this with the Dynon and the Navaid autopilot, since both need aviation > data format and the Navaid device cannot accept the data with altitude > in it, I cannot see the GPS reported altitude on the Dynon's HSI > screen. (minor detail, but annoying) > > 4) The Dynon's new HSI split screen software update. Awesome > for en route procedures but the thickness of the CDI line presented on > the HSI is just too fat to shoot a really nice ILS approach. I know > the GPS mode is for reference only and I'm going to get flamed for this, > but I'm just observing that the representation on the glass panel is not > as good as the analog CDI needle. > > 5) Antenna cable connections: The new antennas we added for the > panel update all had Mil spec crimp-on BNC style connectors, assemble > with the real crimp tooling, However, two of the old antennas, (com1 > and transponder) had aftermarket style push on BNC connectors. (which > worked fine for 7 years) Well after all the shuffling around under the > instrument panel the shield termination on com1 became intermittent and > we had corresponding intermittent problems communicating on our fancy > new Garmin 530. Changed all connectors, problem resolved. > > 6) Static system leaks: passing the static system check was a > royal pain, our second hand steam gauge airspeed indicator had a static > leak around the temperature compensation knob. Tracking down static > leaks is a slow process! > > 7) Transponder: I always had trouble entering transponder codes > into our old KT76, I couldn't turn the knobs fast enough to keep up > with ATC. Well, if you haven't had the pleasure of a transponder > like the Garmin 327, it is huge, huge improvement. The direct entry of > numbers into the keypad let's me enter the numbers as ATC gives them to > me, awesome! > > 8) Tied for #1 favorite thing on the new panel: The wind arrow and > the track triangle on the HSI. Wow, these two things dramatically > improved how I handle the plane. > > > More later. > > -Bob > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2007
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: parking brake cable
I got the one with a pushbutton in the center....haven't figured out where it's going yet though...... -----Original Message----- >From: Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> >Sent: Jun 21, 2007 6:00 AM >To: RV10 >Subject: RV10-List: parking brake cable > > >What sort of cable/control should I order for my Matco Parking Brake? Vendor? >Where have others terminated it under the panel? > >Thanks in advance for replies! > >Cheers, >Jay > > > >Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. >http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: parking brake cable
Date: Jun 21, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
I got the one from Aircraft Spruce that ratchets and releases with a quarter turn. I mounted the valve on the firewall, next to the brake line standoffs. Then routed the cable forward to a sub panel attached to the main panel and in easy reach of the pilot. Dan N289DT RV10E -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:19 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: parking brake cable I got the one with a pushbutton in the center....haven't figured out where it's going yet though...... -----Original Message----- >From: Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> >Sent: Jun 21, 2007 6:00 AM >To: RV10 >Subject: RV10-List: parking brake cable > > >What sort of cable/control should I order for my Matco Parking Brake? Vendor? >Where have others terminated it under the panel? > >Thanks in advance for replies! > >Cheers, >Jay > > > >Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. >http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2007
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: parking brake cable
For my parking brake I used the same push pulls that Van's gives you in the kit. I then did some bending and riveting of some aluminum and made some stops for the arm and placed a spring on the arm so it would be in the open position. I then placed a micro switch on the assembly that was attached to a light on my panel. The light is off only if the arm is in the full open position. So far it has worked great. Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 7:46:47 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: parking brake cable I got the one from Aircraft Spruce that ratchets and releases with a quarter turn. I mounted the valve on the firewall, next to the brake line standoffs. Then routed the cable forward to a sub panel attached to the main panel and in easy reach of the pilot. Dan N289DT RV10E -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:19 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: parking brake cable I got the one with a pushbutton in the center....haven't figured out where it's going yet though...... -----Original Message----- >From: Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> >Sent: Jun 21, 2007 6:00 AM >To: RV10 >Subject: RV10-List: parking brake cable > > >What sort of cable/control should I order for my Matco Parking Brake? Vendor? >Where have others terminated it under the panel? > >Thanks in advance for replies! > >Cheers, >Jay > > > >Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. >http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: parking brake cable
Date: Jun 21, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
I like the idea of a parking brake light, I will have to make that mod. THX for the idea Dan _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 11:33 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: parking brake cable For my parking brake I used the same push pulls that Van's gives you in the kit. I then did some bending and riveting of some aluminum and made some stops for the arm and placed a spring on the arm so it would be in the open position. I then placed a micro switch on the assembly that was attached to a light on my panel. The light is off only if the arm is in the full open position. So far it has worked great. Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 7:46:47 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: parking brake cable I got the one from Aircraft Spruce that ratchets and releases with a quarter turn. I mounted the valve on the firewall, next to the brake line standoffs. Then routed the cable forward to a sub panel attached to the main panel and in easy reach of the pilot. Dan N289DT RV10E -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:19 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: parking brake cable I got the one with a pushbutton in the center....haven't figured out where it's going yet though...... -----Original Message----- >From: Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> >Sent: Jun 21, 2007 6:00 AM >To: RV10 >Subject: RV10-List: parking brake cable > > >What sort of cable/control should I order for my Matco Parking Brake? Vendor? >Where have others terminated it under the panel? > >Thanks in advance for replies! > >Cheers, >Jay > > > >Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > <http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469> to browse Archive Search more: --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List the Web =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: fuselage height
Date: Jun 21, 2007
It's time to get the fuselage (with engine) on wheels sans vertical stab out of the garage. Does anyone have the height of the fuselage in said condition? How have others gotten the airframe out of the 84" garage? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: fuselage height
I just measured (sight) and it looks like with the wheels on the top of the cabin cover is 77 1/2" off the ground. Deems Davis # 406 Baffling / Plenum / Engine Stuff http://deemsrv10.com/ David McNeill wrote: > > Its time to get the fuselage (with engine) on wheels sans vertical > stab out of the garage. Does anyone have the height of the fuselage in > said condition? How have others gotten the airframe out of the 84 garage? > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: ACS Experimental Door Handle
Date: Jun 22, 2007
nick, this handle from spruce is made by an independent machinist in the midwest somewhere. Its actually a great design and well built, just too deep (thick) for our doors. We really don't need two double tabs for linkage attachment. I talked to the machinist to modify it to better fit our application and found he wasn't interested. I've been diligently woking on a modified version to offer to rv10's specificly. I've attached pics on how my kit attaches to the existing pushrod mechanism without modifications to the original design. I wanted to leave the interior locking handle in place for safety. If you bought a set already drop me a line and I'll send some of the dimensions for linkages and guideblocks I used. (note the pics were taken with the aircraft spruce handles in my doors) Steve dinieri 40205 Iflyrv10.com Any suggestions, one way or the other, from your experiences? I would love to see any pictures that you may have, as I'm sure that they will help, especially with the handle design. Nick -------- Nick Leonard RV-10 (40015) Finish ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV_10" <john_rv10(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Batteries
Date: Jun 22, 2007
Rick, We haven't done it yet but we are planning 2 PC680s, one up the front to crank the engine, and the second down the back for the endurance bus. We plan to follow Bob Knuckolls' approach of changing out the cranking battery and rotating the new battery down the back to maximize life on the endurance bus battery. We have purchased the RV7 firewall mount kit and we will locate it when we have the engine hung. I would prefer to hang it on the engine side of the firewall, but if I can't, then we will put it inside somewhere 'convenient'. I have done several W & B calcs using the numbers other people have published for their RV 10s and I feel comfortable with the results. Being a first time builder we have gone a bit overboard with the primer on the empennage parts, which is all weight way down the back and we are looking at the light weight starter and alternators which reduces weight at the front. John Cleary 40260 Fitting cabin top _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Leach Sent: Wednesday, 20 June 2007 11:47 AM Subject: RV10-List: Batteries Not to start the battery wars again but has anyone installed 2 PC680 batteries and put one up front somewhere, ie. Firewall. If so, where does it fit and how is it on W&B. I know Tim has smaller batteries under his seat I believe. Rick Leach 40397 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: parking brake cable
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Jun 22, 2007
Lloyd - do U have the numer of the spruce product? I was also remided that you should make sure that you have a positive release system. If you are flying an land with the brake on - baaaaad things could happen. -------- OSH '08 or Bust Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=120015#120015 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 22, 2007
From: PJ Seipel <seipel(at)seznam.cz>
Subject: U-1024 Wheel Pant Standoffs
Can anyone tell me where to locate the aluminum block that is used to make the U-1024 wheel pant standoffs on page 48-16 in the plans. I've looked high and low, and after looking at my packing lists, I'm not sure I received the material. Did it by chance come in another kit? Thanks, PJ Seipel RV-10 #40032 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 22, 2007
From: Rick <ricksked(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: U-1024 Wheel Pant Standoffs
PJ It's two small aluminum blocks. Not sure but I believe it's in the same bag as the door hardware. While your at it make sure you have 2 each, 3/8 x 24 x 1-3/4 socket head cap screws...mine were only 3/4" long. Rick S. 40185 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net>
Subject: Re:audio panel location question
Date: Jun 22, 2007
Chris, I couldn't think of a good reason to put the audio panel on top to the stack so I didn't. There is a very good reason not to put it on top. The length of the audio panel (PSE 7000) is much shorter than the radios below and maintenance or wiring changes would be very difficult. Sheldon Olesen #40080 Decided Oct finishing impractical, now looking at Dec ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re:audio panel location question
Date: Jun 23, 2007
I can assure you it will be done on Tuesday. We just don't know which month. Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sheldon Olesen Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 11:54 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re:audio panel location question Chris, I couldn't think of a good reason to put the audio panel on top to the stack so I didn't. There is a very good reason not to put it on top. The length of the audio panel (PSE 7000) is much shorter than the radios below and maintenance or wiring changes would be very difficult. Sheldon Olesen #40080 Decided Oct finishing impractical, now looking at Dec ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 23, 2007
Subject: [ Bill Reining ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Bill Reining Lists: RV-List,RV10-List Subject: QB Delivery by Partain Transport http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/wreining@gmail.com.06.23.2007/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 23, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Boeing surplus Mesa?
David, John Cox was here visiting and he made mention that he thought that Boeing had a retail surplus store in Mesa. Do you know if this is true? If so what are hours of operation and what type of merchandise do they typically have? Thanks Deems > *================================= > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dsyvert(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 23, 2007
Subject: Potential Gotcha on HS stabilizer attachment (looking for comments)
Group, Attached is a problem that I had, and would never have caught had I not had an experience builder look over my project. It is not the type of thing I would think most builders would catch or understand the implications unless they would know that there could be an issue. Please review what I have put together and comment. Sorry that the drawings and explanation may not be completely clear so I would like to hear you comments and will change based on everyone's feedback. Dave Syvertson 40625 ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net>
Subject: First flight completed
Date: Jun 24, 2007
Well, fellow builders, Saturday 6/23, at 8AM N602WT made it's maiden flight. After all this time building the feeling I got when it left old Terra Firma was great. It wasn't the flying as much as the idea that "Hey, I remember when this baby was in a box in pieces" feeling. I had been trying for a couple of weeks to take it up but the weather here in north Texas has been damp to say the least and between my hangar and the runway was a lot of soggy grass. Also because my family wanted to be there I had to wait for the weekends. Anyway, we had a perfect day to fly yesterday and it flew beautifully. It was really a great feeling shooting down the runway with it wanting to get off the ground very quickly. I had put two 50lb sand bags in the rear to move the cg a little bit aft. Once I was in the air, and started breathing again :>}, I was really happy with the control response I was receiving. I made a race track pattern around the airfield and on about my third downwind I let go of the controls and flew the total length hands free. To be honest with all the jockeying around with the aileron and elevator alignment we had to do during the build I thought for sure I would have some type of trim issue, but happily for me I didn't. I had flown transition training with Alex DeDominicis in his 11, but somehow flying in your own plane gives you a completely different feeling or at least it was for me. A good friend of mine on my airfield, Ron Grover and his wife Barb, flew chase plane with me in his RV8. Ron is also building a RV10. I think his build number is 60 or close to that. He's close to taking flight soon also. Anyway with Ron in the air with me we could compare airspeed readings to be sure that my airspeed was reading out correctly and that I didn't have anything leaking out the bottom. Barb was the official camera lady and took some great photos. I've attached a few they sent me last night. In first flight 1 photo if you look down and forward of the plane that is our airport Propwash 16X, which is just north of Fort Worth. We had decided that we would stay up for about 30 minutes in this first flight and we were getting near that time so I decided it was time to stall test the plane before I landed it the first time, so I did and it stalled clean at about 61kts, which is what I think everyone else was finding. After the stall I leveled back out with applying power and the engine did a small hiccup of sort. At that point it seemed like a big hiccup to me. I reduced power and switched tanks and noticed that I had no indicated RPM, even though I knew I did. So it didn't take much thought to decide it was time to get back down to the runway. I did the downwind at 90kt and the final approach at 80kts and was able to land it without embarrassing myself too much. Once back to the hangar we removed the top cowling to inspect for leaks and there were none. I obviously have to get onto why I'm not getting any RPM reading. A first guess is that one of the wire couplers came loose and also, when it did that, it caused my Lasar electronic ignition system to go offline and switch back to the standard mags. I'm guessing that's when I felt the engine hiccup momentarily. I have a light to tell me if the Lasar goes offline but it wasn't on so we'll just have to dig around a little. Anyway, sorry for the long rant but if I had to summarize for you how the plane felt in flight I would have you use the word "smooth". My son and son-in-law videoed the flight and I will post it when they get it to me. Now I've got to get the hiccups fixed and get the time flown off. Boy I have to say I have so many people on my field and others to thank for all the help they've all given me in getting to this point. I know without all their help I wouldn't be ready to fly yet, that's for sure. Muchas gracias to all of them. Wayne Edgerton #40336 Now amongst the flying. Paint date scheduled for September ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com>
Subject: LASIK
Date: Jun 24, 2007
Well I took the plunge and had LASIK with Intralase this past Thursday morning by Dr. Hale. So far my left eye is 20/15 right eye is 20/25 with some haze in both eyes mostly due to dryness. No affect on near vision. With contacts I was 20/15 L and 20/20 R. I am mostly happy with the results. I am told the haze will clear in a short time and the correction may improve as well. My eyes have been a bit dry and I am using the prescribed drops, antibiotic, anti-inflammatory and tears. Slight halos at night. The Doc said he can tweak either eye in a few months if need be but wants to be sure everything has stabilized first. The procedure is pretty much a non event. Go home, sleep, DON'T RUB YOUR EYES, wake up and see. I will post more results in a few months. Thanks for all the previous comments and inputs. Hope to SEE many of you at OSH! I talked with Tom Poberezney this past week as he is a customer of mine and he said there is a surprise which he could not tell me about and that Thursday is the best day to attend this year. The F-22's will also be back. Dave Leikam Donated my glasses. 40496 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2007
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: First flight completed
Wayne, that is fantastic news! I'm glad you finally got your big day...and I'm glad your family got to be included in the event. You're definitely another good example of someone who has been persevering for a long time, barely patiently waiting for your first flight. I know the feeling well. Congrats again! Tim Wayne Edgerton wrote: > Well, fellow builders, Saturday 6/23, at 8AM N602WT made its maiden > flight. After all this time building the feeling I got when it left old > Terra Firma was great. It wasnt the flying as much as the idea that > Hey, I remember when this baby was in a box in pieces" feeling. > > > > I had been trying for a couple of weeks to take it up but the weather > here in north Texas has been damp to say the least and between my hangar > and the runway was a lot of soggy grass. Also because my family wanted > to be there I had to wait for the weekends. > > > > Anyway, we had a perfect day to fly yesterday and it flew beautifully. > It was really a great feeling shooting down the runway with it wanting > to get off the ground very quickly. I had put two 50lb sand bags in the > rear to move the cg a little bit aft. Once I was in the air, and started > breathing again :>}, I was really happy with the control response I was > receiving. I made a race track pattern around the airfield and on about > my third downwind I let go of the controls and flew the total length > hands free. To be honest with all the jockeying around with the aileron > and elevator alignment we had to do during the build I thought for sure > I would have some type of trim issue, but happily for me I didnt. > > > > I had flown transition training with Alex DeDominicis in his 11, but > somehow flying in your own plane gives you a completely different > feeling or at least it was for me. > > > > A good friend of mine on my airfield, Ron Grover and his wife Barb, flew > chase plane with me in his RV8. Ron is also building a RV10. I think his > build number is 60 or close to that. Hes close to taking flight soon > also. Anyway with Ron in the air with me we could compare airspeed > readings to be sure that my airspeed was reading out correctly and that > I didnt have anything leaking out the bottom. Barb was the official > camera lady and took some great photos. Ive attached a few they sent me > last night. In *first flight 1* photo if you look down and forward of > the plane that is our airport Propwash 16X, which is just north of Fort > Worth. > > > > We had decided that we would stay up for about 30 minutes in this first > flight and we were getting near that time so I decided it was time to > stall test the plane before I landed it the first time, so I did and it > stalled clean at about 61kts, which is what I think everyone else was > finding. After the stall I leveled back out with applying power and the > engine did a small hiccup of sort. At that point it seemed like a big > hiccup to me. I reduced power and switched tanks and noticed that I had > no indicated RPM, even though I knew I did. So it didnt take much > thought to decide it was time to get back down to the runway. > > > > I did the downwind at 90kt and the final approach at 80kts and was able > to land it without embarrassing myself too much. Once back to the hangar > we removed the top cowling to inspect for leaks and there were none. > > > > I obviously have to get onto why Im not getting any RPM reading. A > first guess is that one of the wire couplers came loose and also, when > it did that, it caused my Lasar electronic ignition system to go offline > and switch back to the standard mags. Im guessing thats when I felt > the engine hiccup momentarily. I have a light to tell me if the Lasar > goes offline but it wasnt on so well just have to dig around a little. > > > > Anyway, sorry for the long rant but if I had to summarize for you how > the plane felt in flight I would have you use the word "smooth". My son > and son-in-law videoed the flight and I will post it when they get it to me. > > > > Now Ive got to get the hiccups fixed and get the time flown off. > > > > Boy I have to say I have so many people on my field and others to thank > for all the help they've all given me in getting to this point. I know > without all their help I wouldn't be ready to fly yet, that's for sure. > Muchas gracias to all of them. > > > > Wayne Edgerton #40336 > > > > Now amongst the flying. Paint date scheduled for September > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net>
Subject: First flight completed
Date: Jun 24, 2007
Congratulations. Its always an inspiration to the rest of us when we read about a first flight like yours. Bob K _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 6:17 AM Subject: RV10-List: First flight completed Well, fellow builders, Saturday 6/23, at 8AM N602WT made it's maiden flight. After all this time building the feeling I got when it left old Terra Firma was great. It wasn't the flying as much as the idea that "Hey, I remember when this baby was in a box in pieces" feeling. I had been trying for a couple of weeks to take it up but the weather here in north Texas has been damp to say the least and between my hangar and the runway was a lot of soggy grass. Also because my family wanted to be there I had to wait for the weekends. Anyway, we had a perfect day to fly yesterday and it flew beautifully. It was really a great feeling shooting down the runway with it wanting to get off the ground very quickly. I had put two 50lb sand bags in the rear to move the cg a little bit aft. Once I was in the air, and started breathing again :>}, I was really happy with the control response I was receiving. I made a race track pattern around the airfield and on about my third downwind I let go of the controls and flew the total length hands free. To be honest with all the jockeying around with the aileron and elevator alignment we had to do during the build I thought for sure I would have some type of trim issue, but happily for me I didn't. I had flown transition training with Alex DeDominicis in his 11, but somehow flying in your own plane gives you a completely different feeling or at least it was for me. A good friend of mine on my airfield, Ron Grover and his wife Barb, flew chase plane with me in his RV8. Ron is also building a RV10. I think his build number is 60 or close to that. He's close to taking flight soon also. Anyway with Ron in the air with me we could compare airspeed readings to be sure that my airspeed was reading out correctly and that I didn't have anything leaking out the bottom. Barb was the official camera lady and took some great photos. I've attached a few they sent me last night. In first flight 1 photo if you look down and forward of the plane that is our airport Propwash 16X, which is just north of Fort Worth. We had decided that we would stay up for about 30 minutes in this first flight and we were getting near that time so I decided it was time to stall test the plane before I landed it the first time, so I did and it stalled clean at about 61kts, which is what I think everyone else was finding. After the stall I leveled back out with applying power and the engine did a small hiccup of sort. At that point it seemed like a big hiccup to me. I reduced power and switched tanks and noticed that I had no indicated RPM, even though I knew I did. So it didn't take much thought to decide it was time to get back down to the runway. I did the downwind at 90kt and the final approach at 80kts and was able to land it without embarrassing myself too much. Once back to the hangar we removed the top cowling to inspect for leaks and there were none. I obviously have to get onto why I'm not getting any RPM reading. A first guess is that one of the wire couplers came loose and also, when it did that, it caused my Lasar electronic ignition system to go offline and switch back to the standard mags. I'm guessing that's when I felt the engine hiccup momentarily. I have a light to tell me if the Lasar goes offline but it wasn't on so we'll just have to dig around a little. Anyway, sorry for the long rant but if I had to summarize for you how the plane felt in flight I would have you use the word "smooth". My son and son-in-law videoed the flight and I will post it when they get it to me. Now I've got to get the hiccups fixed and get the time flown off. Boy I have to say I have so many people on my field and others to thank for all the help they've all given me in getting to this point. I know without all their help I wouldn't be ready to fly yet, that's for sure. Muchas gracias to all of them. Wayne Edgerton #40336 Now amongst the flying. Paint date scheduled for September ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com>
Subject: First flight completed
Date: Jun 24, 2007
Good job! Mark N410MR >From: "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV10-List: First flight completed >Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 09:17:20 -0500 > >Well, fellow builders, Saturday 6/23, at 8AM N602WT made it's maiden >flight. After all this time building the feeling I got when it left old >Terra Firma was great. It wasn't the flying as much as the idea that "Hey, >I remember when this baby was in a box in pieces" feeling. > > >I had been trying for a couple of weeks to take it up but the weather here >in north Texas has been damp to say the least and between my hangar and the >runway was a lot of soggy grass. Also because my family wanted to be there >I had to wait for the weekends. > > >Anyway, we had a perfect day to fly yesterday and it flew beautifully. It >was really a great feeling shooting down the runway with it wanting to get >off the ground very quickly. I had put two 50lb sand bags in the rear to >move the cg a little bit aft. Once I was in the air, and started breathing >again :>}, I was really happy with the control response I was receiving. I >made a race track pattern around the airfield and on about my third >downwind I let go of the controls and flew the total length hands free. To >be honest with all the jockeying around with the aileron and elevator >alignment we had to do during the build I thought for sure I would have >some type of trim issue, but happily for me I didn't. > > >I had flown transition training with Alex DeDominicis in his 11, but >somehow flying in your own plane gives you a completely different feeling >or at least it was for me. > > >A good friend of mine on my airfield, Ron Grover and his wife Barb, flew >chase plane with me in his RV8. Ron is also building a RV10. I think his >build number is 60 or close to that. He's close to taking flight soon also. >Anyway with Ron in the air with me we could compare airspeed readings to be >sure that my airspeed was reading out correctly and that I didn't have >anything leaking out the bottom. Barb was the official camera lady and took >some great photos. I've attached a few they sent me last night. In first >flight 1 photo if you look down and forward of the plane that is our >airport Propwash 16X, which is just north of Fort Worth. > > >We had decided that we would stay up for about 30 minutes in this first >flight and we were getting near that time so I decided it was time to stall >test the plane before I landed it the first time, so I did and it stalled >clean at about 61kts, which is what I think everyone else was finding. >After the stall I leveled back out with applying power and the engine did a >small hiccup of sort. At that point it seemed like a big hiccup to me. I >reduced power and switched tanks and noticed that I had no indicated RPM, >even though I knew I did. So it didn't take much thought to decide it was >time to get back down to the runway. > > >I did the downwind at 90kt and the final approach at 80kts and was able to >land it without embarrassing myself too much. Once back to the hangar we >removed the top cowling to inspect for leaks and there were none. > > >I obviously have to get onto why I'm not getting any RPM reading. A first >guess is that one of the wire couplers came loose and also, when it did >that, it caused my Lasar electronic ignition system to go offline and >switch back to the standard mags. I'm guessing that's when I felt the >engine hiccup momentarily. I have a light to tell me if the Lasar goes >offline but it wasn't on so we'll just have to dig around a little. > > >Anyway, sorry for the long rant but if I had to summarize for you how the >plane felt in flight I would have you use the word "smooth". My son and >son-in-law videoed the flight and I will post it when they get it to me. > > >Now I've got to get the hiccups fixed and get the time flown off. > > >Boy I have to say I have so many people on my field and others to thank for >all the help they've all given me in getting to this point. I know without >all their help I wouldn't be ready to fly yet, that's for sure. Muchas >gracias to all of them. > > >Wayne Edgerton #40336 > > >Now amongst the flying. Paint date scheduled for September > > ><< RV10-first-flight-3.jpg >> ><< RV10-first-flight-2.jpg >> ><< RV10-first-flight-1.jpg >> _________________________________________________________________ Like puzzles? Play free games & earn great prizes. Play Clink now. http://club.live.com/clink.aspx?icid=clink_hotmailtextlink2 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Cram" <johncram(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Potential Gotcha on HS stabilizer attachment (looking for
comments)
Date: Jun 24, 2007
Nice catch Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Dsyvert(at)aol.com<mailto:Dsyvert(at)aol.com> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 8:05 PM Subject: RV10-List: Potential Gotcha on HS stabilizer attachment (looking for comments) Group, Attached is a problem that I had, and would never have caught had I not had an experience builder look over my project. It is not the type of thing I would think most builders would catch or understand the implications unless they would know that there could be an issue. Please review what I have put together and comment. Sorry that the drawings and explanation may not be completely clear so I would like to hear you comments and will change based on everyone's feedback. Dave Syvertson 40625 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See what's free at AOL.com<http://www.aol.com/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503>. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: First flight completed
Nice Job Wayne! Been wondering when the big event would occur. Thanks for your write-up, I'm hoping to be in you shoes in the not too distant future. It seems that once guys are into Stage 1 we don't hear too much about what happens during that period. Hopefully it's because nothing happens, but Murphy seems to be everywhere. I appreciate your posting the RPM issue. And hope you keep us informed about what and how it's resolved. I think it's a real service to those of us still to go down that road to learn from you "forerunners". Congratulations and THANKS Deems Davis # 406 Engine / Wiring and Panel Stuff http://deemsrv10.com/ W ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: FW: [LML] Avionics for sale
Date: Jun 24, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Some of you may find value in this post. For others, sorry about the waste of bandwidth. John Cox ________________________________ From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml(at)lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeremy Roach Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 4:51 AM Subject: [LML] Avionics for sale It's that time of year that we are doing some spring cleaning. I've got cabinets full of avionics to get rid of. Some are new and some are old but they are all "as-is" and best offer. I also have a ton of misc indicators so drop an e-mail if your looking for something else. Trimble GPS TNL 2000 $800 Sikorsky AICDII AM/FM/CD $ 500 Apollo CNX80 $5000 Garmin SL15 New $900 Trimble 2000 $1000 Sigma Tek vacuum Attitude indicator 5000b-38 $600 ICOM IC-A200 New $600 Garmin GTX320 $800 ARNAV Loran rcvr R5000 $200 King KN64 DME New $1100 King transponder KT70TSO $3750 PMA 7000M-S New $1550 King KN-64 $1100 Garmin GTX320A $1100 Garmin GI 102A W/O G/S $800 Jeremy M. Roach Avionics Technical Advisor/ Trainer Lancair Avionics 2244 Airport Way Redmond Oregon 97756 Tel. (541) 923-2244 Fax. (541) 923-2255 E-mail: jeremyr(at)lancairavionics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2007
From: Shawn Moon <moons1999(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: First flight completed
Congrats Wayne!=0A =0A--Shawn=0A40366 - Wings=0A=0A----- Original Message - ---=0AFrom: Wayne Edgerton <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net>=0ATo: rv10-list@matronic s.com=0ASent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 9:17:20 AM=0ASubject: RV10-List: First flight completed=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A=0AWell, fellow =0Abuilders, Saturda y 6/23, at=0A 8AM N602WT made =0Ait=92s maiden flight. After all this time building the feeling I got when it left =0Aold Terra Firma was great. It w asn=92t the flying as much as the idea that =93Hey, I =0Aremember when this baby was in a box in pieces" feeling. =0A=0A=0A =0A =0AI had been trying f or a couple of weeks to take it up but the weather =0Ahere in north Texas h as been damp to say the least and between my hangar and the =0Arunway was a lot of soggy grass. Also because my family wanted to be there I had =0Ato wait for the weekends. =0A=0A =0A =0AAnyway, we had a perfect day to fly ye sterday and it flew beautifully. It =0Awas really a great feeling shooting down the runway with it wanting to get off =0Athe ground very quickly. I ha d put two 50lb sand bags in the rear to move the cg =0Aa little bit aft. On ce I was in the air, and started breathing again :>}, I =0Awas really happy with the control response I was receiving. I made a race track =0Apattern around the airfield and on about my third downwind I let go of the =0Acontr ols and flew the total length hands free. To be honest with all the =0Ajock eying around with the aileron and elevator alignment we had to do during th e =0Abuild I thought for sure I would have some type of trim issue, but hap pily for =0Ame I didn=92t. =0A=0A =0A =0AI had flown transition training wi th Alex DeDominicis in his 11, but =0Asomehow flying in your own plane give s you a completely different feeling or at =0Aleast it was for me. =0A=0A =0A =0AA good friend of mine on my airfield, Ron Grover and his wife Barb, flew =0Achase plane with me in his RV8. Ron is also building a RV10. I thin k his build =0Anumber is 60 or close to that. He=92s close to taking flight soon also. Anyway =0Awith Ron in the air with me we could compare airspeed readings to be sure that =0Amy airspeed was reading out correctly and that I didn=92t have anything leaking =0Aout the bottom. Barb was the official camera lady and took some great photos. =0AI=92ve attached a few they sent me last night. In first flight =0A1 photo if you look down and forward of the plane that is our airport =0APropwash 16X, which is just north of Fort Worth.=0A=0A =0A =0AWe had decided that we would stay up for about 30 minut es in this first =0Aflight and we were getting near that time so I decided it was time to stall test =0Athe plane before I landed it the first time, s o I did and it stalled clean at =0Aabout 61kts, which is what I think every one else was finding. After the stall I =0Aleveled back out with applying p ower and the engine did a small hiccup of sort. =0AAt that point it seemed like a big hiccup to me. I reduced power and switched =0Atanks and noticed that I had no indicated RPM, even though I knew I did. So it =0Adidn=92t ta ke much thought to decide it was time to get back down to the =0Arunway.=0A =0A =0A =0AI did the downwind at 90kt and the final approach at 80kts and w as able =0Ato land it without embarrassing myself too much. Once back to th e hangar we =0Aremoved the top cowling to inspect for leaks and there were none.=0A=0A =0A =0AI obviously have to get onto why I=92m not getting any R PM reading. A first =0Aguess is that one of the wire couplers came loose an d also, when it did that, it =0Acaused my Lasar electronic ignition system to go offline and switch back to the =0Astandard mags. I=92m guessing that =92s when I felt the engine hiccup momentarily. I =0Ahave a light to tell m e if the Lasar goes offline but it wasn=92t on so we=92ll just =0Ahave to d ig around a little.=0A=0A =0A =0AAnyway, sorry for the long rant but if I h ad to summarize for you how the =0Aplane felt in flight I would have you us e the word "smooth". My son and =0Ason-in-law videoed the flight and I will post it when they get it to =0Ame.=0A=0A =0A =0ANow I=92ve got to get the hiccups fixed and get the time flown off. =0A=0A=0A =0A =0A Boy I have to s ay I have so =0Amany people on my field and others to thank for all the hel p they've all given =0Ame in getting to this point. I know without all thei r help I wouldn't be ready =0Ato fly yet, that's for sure. Muchas gracias t o all of them.=0A =0A =0A=0A Wayne Edgerton =0A#40336=0A=0A =0A=0ANow amon gst the flying. Paint date scheduled for =0ASeptember=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A________________________________________________________ ____________________________=0AIt's here! Your new message! =0AGet new ema il alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.=0Ahttp://tools.search.yahoo.com/too lbar/features/mail/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2007
From: "Stephen Blank" <sblankdds(at)gmail.com>
Subject: First RV-10 ride
A big thanks goes out to Rob Kermanj. I was visiting a friend at Treasure Coast Air Park in Port St. Lucie, Florida. We took his RV-6a for a breakfast hop. What a great flying plane. After landing, we watched a few planes in the pattern, and in comes a beautiful RV-10, N225ES !!! After landing, Rob invited me for a ride. I got a full ride including take off and landing with great instruction from a non CFI. Take off was uneventful with great performance with just finger tips on the stick. turns required minimal elevator to maintain altitude. In the pattern with reduced power the slow flight and half flap settings were very easy to manage speed. Landing was a breeze compared to my Cessna 170, it was my first trike landing in 4 years! I voluntered to babysit the -10 any time! Rob, thanks again for a great ride and letting me experience that RV grin (in someone elses RV). Today i finished building my left elevator and dimpled the spars for the right elevator..... I am high on motivation. -- Stephen G. Blank, DDS RV-10 Kit #40499 184 NW Central Park Plaza Port St. Lucie, FL 34986 772-475-5556 >>> Cell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dsyvert(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 24, 2007
Subject: Re: Potential Gotcha on HS stabilizer attachment (looking for
comm... Group, Thanks for the comments. Here are a few additional thoughts I have: 1) I think my calling it a gotcha is incorrect. A better name would be best practices. Gotcha assumes something is wrong either with the instructions and/or the kit which is not the case. Best practices would be to get a better product. So.. in putting this portion of the project together it would be a best practice if there is no stress to begin with. I think something similar to my procedure would do that. If you are even off 1/64" then it will be under stress when you tighten up the bolts to the longeron. Better not to start with stress to begin with. 2) When building these planes, there are parts/steps that are more critical than others. I believe this is one of the more important steps that I have found so far. Eventually 4 bolts in front and 4 bolts in back hold most (but not all) of the tail assembly together (HS, VS, Rudder, Elevators). Part of my purpose was to point out how important this step is to the assembly. 3) What Tim said got me thinking about an alternative way. What I did (originally) was mark using a fine point sharpie the 1/8" line. I just measured the thickness of a line created by a "fine" point sharpie, it is 4/64" wide or 1/16" wide. Not real accurate. I thinks a better way (if the 7 holes are drilled during step 2 on page 10-4) would be to use the 1/8" bar (F-1010-B that is not fabricated till step 3 on page 10-10) on top of the angle "iron" so that it is flat on top of the bulk head and use another flat piece across and then drill the 7 holes. Then I believe a near perfect clearance would be obtained. I would suggest looking ahead to page 10-11 on the drawing section A-A to where the longeron is fit. Thanks for the comments and would be interested in more. Dave Syvertson 40625 ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: parking brake cable
Date: Jun 24, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
T-handle dash contrl 1 wire 8 feet p/n 05-15100 Hope this helps Also I attached a spring to the control arm to ensure it would be pulled back when the handle was released -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:54 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: parking brake cable Lloyd - do U have the numer of the spruce product? I was also remided that you should make sure that you have a positive release system. If you are flying an land with the brake on - baaaaad things could happen. -------- OSH '08 or Bust Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=120015#120015 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2007
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: What to get with the wing kit recommendations
How much proseal should I count on needing to seal the wing fuel tanks? Is 1 quart enough, or should I plan on 2 quarts? Thanks! Pascal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Rosen" <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 6:07 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: What to get with the wing kit recommendations > > Don't forget the proseal :-) It is the only thing you will need to start. > All the rest can wait. > > The other items that others have mentioned will be needed more towards the > end of the wing build > > Conduit (if you are going that route) > Gretz pitot mount (for a heated pitot tube) > Aileron trim > > and then the lighting choices. > For landing lights I chose the the LoPresti boom beams that they announced > this year at S&F (the still do not have them listed on there web site > <http://www.speedmods.com>) > And for strobes and Nav lights I have the Whelen A650 style purchased from > vans. Whelen should be out with a 12 volt LED version with the same form > factor at OSH. I was told that the pricing will be very similar to the > A650. We could only hope. > Nav antennas in the wing tips (get them from Stein) > Marker beacon antenna, just a stripped piece of coax, in one of the tips > > > Pascal wrote: >> I looked in the archives and couldn't quite find what I should order with >> the wings. I also looked at Tim's site and maybe missed this somewhere. >> -Should I buy the strobes and positions lights now while building the >> wings? >> -Should I get the options Van's offers? Float fuel sender units, landing >> lights? >> - Should I get anything else? >> I would also like recommendations of places to get things and part >> numbers/ links, etc... I know Deems rated the LED lights he got very >> highly, he also has a link for it, however that site also says to buy the >> power unit and position lights elsewhere. William Curtis has a link to >> Strobes n more and I saw a kit for $159.. >> In summary I am looking for what people bought, the place and part >> number and when they actually put them in the wings. >> Thanks! >> Pascal >> * >> >> >> * > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 25, 2007
From: Sam Marlow <sam(at)fr8dog.net>
Subject: Static problems
I'm having static problems, I think, not sure where to look though. Indicated airspeed seams to be accurate on the bottom end but 20 to 30 knots slow at cruise, verified with chase plane. The static was checked and certified IFR by an avionics shop, with no leaks. Looking for ideas...... Thanks, Sam ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 25, 2007
From: "James K Hovis" <james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Static problems
Most likely the place where your static source is portted to the outside is experiencing some turbulence that is raising the free-stream pressure of the air. Airspeed is measured by taking the dynamic (pitot) and static pressure difference and calculating the airspeed with a mechanical computer. Changing your static port location, seeing if there's a skin mismatch or even a burr near the port may help. Calibrating the airspeed indication systems is one reason why production aircraft fly with an extremely long pitot/static boom during initial flight testing. Kevin H. On 6/25/07, Sam Marlow wrote: > I'm having static problems, I think, not sure where to look though. > Indicated airspeed seams to be accurate on the bottom end but 20 to 30 > knots slow at cruise, verified with chase plane. The static was checked > and certified IFR by an avionics shop, with no leaks. Looking for > ideas...... > Thanks, > Sam > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Static problems
Date: Jun 25, 2007
What type of static ports did you install. Are they flush with the skin/paint? Rene' Felker N423CF 40322 801-721-6080 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Marlow Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:13 AM Subject: RV10-List: Static problems I'm having static problems, I think, not sure where to look though. Indicated airspeed seams to be accurate on the bottom end but 20 to 30 knots slow at cruise, verified with chase plane. The static was checked and certified IFR by an avionics shop, with no leaks. Looking for ideas...... Thanks, Sam ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Some performance numbers now that I have Wheelpants, Gearlegs
and Intersect fairing on. Still no paint.
Date: Jun 25, 2007
From: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com>
Now that I have wheel pants, gear legs and intersect fairings on it was time to go out and do some speed runs. I have been feeling the "need for speed" now for almost one year, ever since I started flying my RV-10 (N519RV). Anyway I finally finished the fairing and went out to record some data. I had the autopilot fly with using 90 degree ground tracks. Legend ------ TRK - GPS Ground Track IAS - Indicated Air Speed TAS - True Air Speed from Dynon EFIS GS - GPS Ground Speed OAT - Outside Air Temperature from Dynon EFIS MAP - Manifold Pressure RPM - Engine RPM FF - Fuel Flow from Dynon EMS ( Calibration is bang on) ALT - Indicated Altitude DA - Density Altitude from Dynon EFIS Test run using wide open throttle at 8500 indicated using 2450 RPM and 50 degrees RICH of peak. Flying weight was approx 2480. TRK IAS TAS GS OAT MAP RPM FF ALT DA ----------------------------------------------------- 0 139 164 164 59 21.8 2450 14.6 8500 10560 90 138 162 175 59 21.8 2450 14.6 8500 10560 180 139 164 172 60 21.8 2450 14.6 8500 10600 270 139 164 162 60 21.8 2450 14.5 8500 10600 ---- 168.25 for TAS using 4 way GPS Average Test run using wide open throttle at 8500 indicated using 2450 RPM and 50 degrees LEAN of peak. Flying weight was approx 2450. TRK IAS TAS GS OAT MAP RPM FF ALT DA ----------------------------------------------------- 0 132 155 157 60 21.8 2450 11.2 8500 10580 90 130 155 165 59 21.8 2450 11.2 8500 10580 180 132 155 162 59 21.8 2450 10.9 8500 10560 270 133 156 155 59 21.8 2450 11.1 8500 10530 ---- 159.75 for TAS using 4 way GPS Average Test run using wide open throttle at 11500 indicated using 2300 RPM and 50 degrees LEAN of peak. Flying weight was approx 2420. TRK IAS TAS GS OAT MAP RPM FF ALT DA ----------------------------------------------------- 0 120 147 145 49 19.5 2300 9.2 11500 13600 90 120 147 161 49 19.5 2300 9.1 11500 13600 180 121 150 162 49 19.5 2300 9.1 11500 13600 270 120 147 143 49 19.5 2300 9.2 11500 13600 ---- 152.75 for TAS using 4 way GPS Average Test run using wide open throttle at 11500 indicated using 2450 RPM and 50 degrees LEAN of peak. Flying weight was approx 2390. TRK IAS TAS GS OAT MAP RPM FF ALT DA ----------------------------------------------------- 0 120 147 144 48 19.2 2450 9.8 11500 13500 90 121 149 161 48 19.3 2450 9.7 11500 13500 180 122 150 160 48 19.4 2450 9.9 11500 13500 270 125 153 147 48 19.4 2450 9.9 11500 13500 ---- 153.00 for TAS using 4 way GPS Average From this you can see my TAS from my Dynon is reading about 4 - 6 knots low. This could be in part due to static port type and placement (I used stock placement and Cleveland Ports) or could be OAT probe placement (mine is on after tailcone rib under Emp fairing. I am considering installing another OAT off of my EMS half way out on the wing and then compare the two. The one in the tail cone is connected to the Dynon EDC off the EFIS. Also you can see that at 11,500 indicated (DA 13500) there is not much speed gain from 2300 RPM LOP to 2450 RPM LOP and the engine runs real nice at 2300 RPM. I figure I'm going to fly this plane a lot at around 9 Gals per hour at 7500 - 9500 and flight plane for 150 - 155 Knots. Thank You Ray Doerr N519RV 40250 (Hobbs 262) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com>
Subject: Static problems
Date: Jun 25, 2007
Sam, You might have a pitot leak. You can check by putting a tiny bit of pressure on the pitot tube. Be careful, it doesn't take much to peg the instrument. If you can get a piece of surgical tubing over the pitot tube, then roll it up, you can set an airspeed on the indicator. Run it up to Vne. It shouldn't bleed down more than about 5 knots (mph) in 5 minutes. Any worse than that, you might want to look for a leak. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Marlow Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 7:13 AM Subject: RV10-List: Static problems I'm having static problems, I think, not sure where to look though. Indicated airspeed seams to be accurate on the bottom end but 20 to 30 knots slow at cruise, verified with chase plane. The static was checked and certified IFR by an avionics shop, with no leaks. Looking for ideas...... Thanks, Sam ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Reining" <wreining(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Boeing surplus Mesa?
Date: Jun 25, 2007
Deems (and all other surplus hounds) I was in the Seattle area a couple of weeks ago and visited the Boeing surplus store in Kent. Wow! In addition to the general junk one would expect, they have a tool section full of air tools and all manner of attachments and bits. Many of these are much larger than what could be used for an RV-10. Nevertheless, I ended up buying several different sized reamers, a deburring tool and bits, a nice quarter inch ratcheting wrench, and several lengths of shrink wrap - all for about $12 total. But I digress - to answer your question, go to www.boeing.com/surplus. I used this site to get driving directions to the store in Kent. The site has a pretty good list of the other Boeing surplus store locations, including several in Southern California and Wichita. Unfortunately, I didn't see any in Mesa, Arizona. Hope this helps. Bill Reining (and son Jon) 40514 - QB wings Oshkosh - all week ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Static problems
Date: Jun 25, 2007
As mentioned it could be a pitot leak. I had one right behind the panel and could actually change my airspeed by grabbing the connection that was leaking (it was very pronounced though, not just 20 knots at the high end). Another thought depends on what indicator you have. If it's an EFIS, there may be some calibration errors that you can adjust. Marcus 40286 168 hours and can't stand to park it long enough to paint it! _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Marlow Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 9:13 AM Subject: RV10-List: Static problems I'm having static problems, I think, not sure where to look though. Indicated airspeed seams to be accurate on the bottom end but 20 to 30 knots slow at cruise, verified with chase plane. The static was checked and certified IFR by an avionics shop, with no leaks. Looking for ideas...... Thanks, Sam ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 25, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Forsling exhaust & Van's breather tube
John " The Turbinator" Cox, performed an EAA Tech Councilor review of my project this weekend. Yes, in addition to his being an A&P IA, and all the other alphabet suffixes he has earned he is now ALSO an official EAA Tech Councilor ! (big hand for John!). One of the things John pointed out to me was the fact that the stock Van's breather tube exits on top of the Forsling exhaust. A Hot exhaust collector is not really the place you want oil to drip on in flight. The fix is to bend the existing or fabricate a new tube that will leave any oil deposits well clear of a hot exhaust. I know there are other's who have or are ordering or have ordered John Forsling's exhaust so I'm posting this for their benefit. I have no idea where/how the breather tube and the Vetterman exhaust coexist. Deems Davis # 406 Engine / Wiring and Panel Stuff http://deemsrv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Forsling exhaust & Van's breather tube
Date: Jun 25, 2007
It has been common practice for years to have the breather tube exit on top of the exhaust to keep the belly of the plane clean. Some even inject the breather inside the exhaust to burn it. It would be interesting to see if there are any reports of problems with the breather on top of the exhaust. Gary 40274 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 4:59 PM Subject: RV10-List: Forsling exhaust & Van's breather tube John " The Turbinator" Cox, performed an EAA Tech Councilor review of my project this weekend. Yes, in addition to his being an A&P IA, and all the other alphabet suffixes he has earned he is now ALSO an official EAA Tech Councilor ! (big hand for John!). One of the things John pointed out to me was the fact that the stock Van's breather tube exits on top of the Forsling exhaust. A Hot exhaust collector is not really the place you want oil to drip on in flight. The fix is to bend the existing or fabricate a new tube that will leave any oil deposits well clear of a hot exhaust. I know there are other's who have or are ordering or have ordered John Forsling's exhaust so I'm posting this for their benefit. I have no idea where/how the breather tube and the Vetterman exhaust coexist. Deems Davis # 406 Engine / Wiring and Panel Stuff http://deemsrv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "The McGough Family" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Painting fuel tanks
Date: Jun 26, 2007
Just wondering if people are taking there fuel tanks off to paint the wings Chris 388 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 25, 2007
From: Sam Marlow <sam(at)fr8dog.net>
Subject: Re: Static problems
I have the static port in the Van's recommended position, I wouldn't have a clue where to move it, or even how. I can't just start drilling holes randomly. What should I do? James K Hovis wrote: > > > Most likely the place where your static source is portted to the > outside is experiencing some turbulence that is raising the > free-stream pressure of the air. Airspeed is measured by taking the > dynamic (pitot) and static pressure difference and calculating the > airspeed with a mechanical computer. Changing your static port > location, seeing if there's a skin mismatch or even a burr near the > port may help. Calibrating the airspeed indication systems is one > reason why production aircraft fly with an extremely long pitot/static > boom during initial flight testing. > > Kevin H. > > On 6/25/07, Sam Marlow wrote: >> I'm having static problems, I think, not sure where to look though. >> Indicated airspeed seams to be accurate on the bottom end but 20 to 30 >> knots slow at cruise, verified with chase plane. The static was checked >> and certified IFR by an avionics shop, with no leaks. Looking for >> ideas...... >> Thanks, >> Sam >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 25, 2007
From: Sam Marlow <sam(at)fr8dog.net>
Subject: Re: Static problems
I installed the Cleveland Tool flush ports. Rene Felker wrote: > > What type of static ports did you install. Are they flush with the > skin/paint? > > > > Rene' Felker > > N423CF > > 40322 > > 801-721-6080 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam Marlow > *Sent:* Monday, June 25, 2007 8:13 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Static problems > > > > I'm having static problems, I think, not sure where to look though. > Indicated airspeed seams to be accurate on the bottom end but 20 to 30 > knots slow at cruise, verified with chase plane. The static was > checked and certified IFR by an avionics shop, with no leaks. Looking > for ideas...... > Thanks, > Sam > > * * > * * > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > ** > *http://forums.matronics.com* > * * > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2007
From: Sam Marlow <sam(at)fr8dog.net>
Subject: Re: Static problems
I just had a static check by an avionics shop, no leaks, IFR certified. I'm baffled. Dave Saylor wrote: > Sam, > > You might have a pitot leak. > > You can check by putting a tiny bit of pressure on the pitot tube. Be > careful, it doesn't take much to peg the instrument. If you can get a > piece of surgical tubing over the pitot tube, then roll it up, you can > set an airspeed on the indicator. Run it up to Vne. It shouldn't > bleed down more than about 5 knots (mph) in 5 minutes. Any worse than > that, you might want to look for a leak. > > Dave Saylor > AirCrafters LLC > 140 Aviation Way > Watsonville, CA > 831-722-9141 > 831-750-0284 CL > www.AirCraftersLLC.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam Marlow > *Sent:* Monday, June 25, 2007 7:13 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Static problems > > I'm having static problems, I think, not sure where to look though. > Indicated airspeed seams to be accurate on the bottom end but 20 to 30 > knots slow at cruise, verified with chase plane. The static was > checked and certified IFR by an avionics shop, with no leaks. Looking > for ideas...... > Thanks, > Sam > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > * > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Painting fuel tanks, control surfaces
Date: Jun 25, 2007
What are the benefits to painting them seperately? My question is: are most people painting their control surfaces seperately so the paint will be evenly distributed into the recesses or is simply moving the control surface up and down enough to get the paint in there? John G. >From: "The McGough Family" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV10-List: Painting fuel tanks >Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:53:34 +1000 > > >Just wondering if people are taking there fuel tanks off to paint the wings > >Chris 388 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2007
From: Sam Marlow <sam(at)fr8dog.net>
Subject: Re: Static problems
I have both EFIS and analog, and they agree with each other. Marcus Cooper wrote: > > As mentioned it could be a pitot leak. I had one right behind the > panel and could actually change my airspeed by grabbing the connection > that was leaking (it was very pronounced though, not just 20 knots at > the high end). > > > > Another thought depends on what indicator you have. If it's an EFIS, > there may be some calibration errors that you can adjust. > > > > Marcus > > 40286 > > 168 hours and can't stand to park it long enough to paint it! > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam Marlow > *Sent:* Monday, June 25, 2007 9:13 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Static problems > > > > I'm having static problems, I think, not sure where to look though. > Indicated airspeed seams to be accurate on the bottom end but 20 to 30 > knots slow at cruise, verified with chase plane. The static was > checked and certified IFR by an avionics shop, with no leaks. Looking > for ideas...... > Thanks, > Sam > > * * > * * > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > ** > *http://forums.matronics.com* > * * > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Static problems
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Jun 25, 2007
My I.A. friend suggested that it could be water accumulating. He told me to put a sump in my system. Spruce sells a cheap sump. I was directed to put a low point in the static lines for water to accumulate. Had to run my lines up the port side, so after routing them high, they dropped down to the floor aft of the baggage bay. Good luck - hope this helps -------- OSH '08 or Bust Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=120657#120657 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2007
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Static problems
I'm going to combine 4 replies into one. Sam Marlow wrote: ## I installed the Cleveland Tool flush ports. Well, if they're the old flush flat Cleveland ports, then that's good for at least about 1/3 of your 20kt error right there. If they're the domed ones, they may have less error. ##I just had a static check by an avionics shop, no leaks, IFR certified. I'm baffled. Did they check the PITOT system for leakdown too? The IFR static test is far far more relaxed on the pitot side than the static side, and they really only bother to test for leaks in many cases. The suggestion given to use surgical tubing and check for leakdown is a good one...even if they said it passed. ## I have both EFIS and analog, and they agree with each other. Of course...even a leaky system could possibly have a pressure inside it that's common along the whole system, so that doesn't surprise me. ## Good thought but I have full size backup instruments, and the EFIS agrees with the analog readings. Full size, or small, the leaks could be anywhere, if they exist. From what I've read, it's very hard to get pitot errors from mis-angled pitots without it being a really big angle error. If your pitot is mounted in the standard way, and sits down low enough from the wing, and there are no bugs and stuff in it, then it is not likely the problem. That really brings you back to either a pitot leak, static problem, or port type/position problem. There's not going to be a silver bullet, so it's just time to roll up the sleeves and start digging. I replaced my static ports even after the plane was painted. If yours are the flat ones I'd start there and then fly the 4-way GPS and see where you're at. It's not going to come free, so it'll just take some time, and eventually you should be able to get within a couple KTS. Tim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Sargeant" <k5wiv(at)amsat.org>
Subject: Static problems
Date: Jun 26, 2007
How are your altimeter and vertical speed indicators? If they are correct then it's unlikely that you have a static issue since they also use the static port for their sensing. Only the airspeed uses the pitot, however, so I'd start looking there. Possibly a kink in the pitot line, or a pinch, or something restricting it. Jack & Cecilia Sargeant 1127 Patricia St. Wichita, KS 67208-2642 316/683-5268 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Marlow Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 9:13 AM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Static problems I'm having static problems, I think, not sure where to look though. Indicated airspeed seams to be accurate on the bottom end but 20 to 30 knots slow at cruise, verified with chase plane. The static was checked and certified IFR by an avionics shop, with no leaks. Looking for ideas...... Thanks, Sam ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net>
Subject: Re: Painting fuel tanks
Date: Jun 26, 2007
I was at Grady's yesterday, Glo Custom Painting, ands I noticed on a plane there were painting that they had removed almost all the screws in the tank when they painted it to fill the dimple holes with paint but they didn't remove the tank. Wayne Edgerton #40336 newbie flying From: "The McGough Family" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> Subject: Painting fuel tanks Just wondering if people are taking there fuel tanks off to paint the wings Chris 388 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net>
Subject: Re: Painting fuel tanks, control surfaces
Date: Jun 26, 2007
In the case of Glo Customs method, they remove all the control surfaces before painting and then paint each seperately. Wayne Edgerton #40336 From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> Subject: Painting fuel tanks, control surfaces What are the benefits to painting them seperately? My question is: are most people painting their control surfaces seperately so the paint will be evenly distributed into the recesses or is simply moving the control surface up and down enough to get the paint in there? John G. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2007
From: Sam Marlow <sam(at)fr8dog.net>
Subject: Re: Static problems
Thanks Tim, this is a tough one, I guess it'll just take some digging. Sam Tim Olson wrote: > > I'm going to combine 4 replies into one. > > > Sam Marlow wrote: > ## I installed the Cleveland Tool flush ports. > > Well, if they're the old flush flat Cleveland ports, then that's good > for at least about 1/3 of your 20kt error right there. If they're the > domed ones, they may have less error. > > > ##I just had a static check by an avionics shop, no leaks, IFR > certified. I'm baffled. > > Did they check the PITOT system for leakdown too? The IFR static > test is far far more relaxed on the pitot side than the static side, > and they really only bother to test for leaks in many cases. The > suggestion given to use surgical tubing and check for leakdown is > a good one...even if they said it passed. > > > ## I have both EFIS and analog, and they agree with each other. > > Of course...even a leaky system could possibly have a pressure > inside it that's common along the whole system, so that doesn't > surprise me. > > > ## Good thought but I have full size backup instruments, and the EFIS > agrees with the analog readings. > > Full size, or small, the leaks could be anywhere, if they exist. > From what I've read, it's very hard to get pitot errors from > mis-angled pitots without it being a really big angle error. If > your pitot is mounted in the standard way, and sits down low enough > from the wing, and there are no bugs and stuff in it, then it is > not likely the problem. That really brings you back to either > a pitot leak, static problem, or port type/position problem. There's > not going to be a silver bullet, so it's just time to roll up > the sleeves and start digging. I replaced my static ports even > after the plane was painted. If yours are the flat ones I'd > start there and then fly the 4-way GPS and see where you're at. > It's not going to come free, so it'll just take some time, > and eventually you should be able to get within a couple KTS. > > Tim > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2007
From: Sam Marlow <sam(at)fr8dog.net>
Subject: Re: Static problems
I've ran the lines to check for kinks etc, nothing I can see. It's a tough one for sure. Jack Sargeant wrote: > How are your altimeter and vertical speed indicators? If they are > correct then it's unlikely that you have a static issue since they > also use the static port for their sensing. Only the airspeed uses > the pitot, however, so I'd start looking there. Possibly a kink in > the pitot line, or a pinch, or something restricting it. > > > Jack & Cecilia Sargeant > 1127 Patricia St. > Wichita, KS 67208-2642 > 316/683-5268 > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]*On Behalf Of *Sam Marlow > *Sent:* Monday, June 25, 2007 9:13 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Static problems > > I'm having static problems, I think, not sure where to look > though. Indicated airspeed seams to be accurate on the bottom end > but 20 to 30 knots slow at cruise, verified with chase plane. The > static was checked and certified IFR by an avionics shop, with no > leaks. Looking for ideas...... > Thanks, > Sam > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > * > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Painting fuel tanks, control surfaces
Date: Jun 26, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Paint them apart, and if stripes transition the gap make sure you check for conformity. Dan N289DT RV10E (This thing is taking forever to get back from paint) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 12:05 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Painting fuel tanks, control surfaces What are the benefits to painting them seperately? My question is: are most people painting their control surfaces seperately so the paint will be evenly distributed into the recesses or is simply moving the control surface up and down enough to get the paint in there? John G. >From: "The McGough Family" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV10-List: Painting fuel tanks >Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:53:34 +1000 > > >Just wondering if people are taking there fuel tanks off to paint the wings > >Chris 388 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2007
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Another RV-10 flies in Southern California
I know John and spoke with him. He had a great flight and Dave flew chase. -------------- Congratulations to John Rost for making the first flight of his RV-10 at Chino Airport on Sunday afternoon, June 24, 2007. The flight went off perfectly and John built a very nice airplane. Congratulations John! Dave Klages RV-8 - N808DK - "Hog" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cal Hoffman" <cehoffman(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Dynon Deliveries
Date: Jun 26, 2007
If anyone has any influence with Dynon, I need help. Dynon has now slipped the delivery of my D-10 EMS to 15 July for the instrument and September for the wiring and probe kit (O-540). My original order date was 1 March, through Spruce, with a 21 May delivery date!! That is 105 days for the instrument and 150 days plus for the wiring/probes. I cannot install my engine until I have the wiring runs complete and may have to look at an alternative.. Cal Hoffman (40119) Change the world one loan at a time - visit Kiva.org to find out how ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2007
From: Scott Gesele <sgesele(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Static problems
> From: Sam Marlow <sam(at)fr8dog.net> > Subject: RV10-List: Static problems > > I'm having static problems, I think, not sure where > to look though. > Indicated airspeed seams to be accurate on the > bottom end but 20 to 30 > knots slow at cruise, verified with chase plane. The > static was checked > and certified IFR by an avionics shop, with no > leaks. Looking for > ideas...... > Thanks, > Sam > There are three potential sources for your error: pitot, static, or instrument. Pitot: Is your pitot installed exactly per Van's instructions? If not, what changes have been made? A pitot leak can be checked, and the instruments checked for error, by using the method contained in the following link: http://www.iflyez.com/manometer.shtml Many heated pitot tubes have a drain port. Ensure that it is covered when performing the test. You may want to try a test flight with the drain port covered. All the drain port does is allow an exit path for water. Don't fly in the rain with the drain covered. Static: Just because the system was checked for leaks during an IFR cert, does not rule out static errors. You mentioned flush ports. These have been the cause of numerous static errors on the RV fleet. Static errors may be a function of airspeed. You can use GPS altitude to determine if you have a static error that is a function of airspeed. In VFR, severe clear, conditions, start with the aircraft at rest on the ground. Adjust the altimeter setting until the altimeter matches the GPS altitude. Go fly. Start at a safe altitude and Vs+10 kts. Record both the GPS altitude and indicated altitude at various airspeeds as the aircraft accelerates to cruise. Repeat as the aircraft is slowed from cruise to Vs+10 kts (power at idle). Perform this test while maintaining a specific indicated altitude. Obtain the local altimeter setting and land. If the above test shows the indicated altitude to be less than the GPS altitude, then your static port is reading a higher than ambient pressure. This will cause an airspeed error. Instrument: The pitot test above will check both the pitot system for leaks, and the accuracy of the instruments. Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: FW: RV-List: Dynon EFIS
Date: Jun 26, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
for those that are looking for a Dynon Dan N289DT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill VonDane Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 1:19 PM Subject: RV-List: Dynon EFIS --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane Sorry for the advertisement, but I thought this would be useful to someone on the list... I am a Dynon dealer and have an extra EFIS-D100 and EMS-D120 ready to ship that a customer decided he didn't want, so if anyone is in the market to get one now instead of in 12 week PLEASE CONTACT ME OFF LIST... I would like to sell as a complete system... -Bill VonDane www.epanelbuilder.com bill(at)epanelbuilder.com 719-510-0854 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vernon Smith <planesmith(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Magnetometer location (was Dynon Deliveries)
Date: Jun 26, 2007
Talking about wiring Dynons. Where are people mounting their magnetometer? If it is behind the baggage area at longron level is there any magnetic int erference with the two cables for the rear seat shoulder harnesses? Or shou ld it be mounted higher or in the wing tip? Vern Smith (#324 fuselage) From: jesse(at)saintaviation.comTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RE: RV10-L ist: Dynon DeliveriesDate: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:57:52 -0400 You should be able to install your engine before doing the wiring. It is a little easier to get the wiring in first, but you don=92t have to. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail to go? Get your Hotmail, news, sports and much more! Check out the New MSN Mobile! http://mobile.msn.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Reining" <wreining(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Potential Gotcha on HS stabilizer attachment (looking
Date: Jun 26, 2007
What did Van's say? I'd be very interested in their opinion whether this is indeed a critical area. Has anyone talked to them about this issue? If I missed it in the thread, my apologies. Bill (and Jon) Reining 40514 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com>
Subject: Static problems
Date: Jun 26, 2007
Sam, When we get static checks, they only test the pitot system if we ask. Even then it's an "information only" type check, no certification. There's no requirement for a pitot check in 91.411/413, so having the static system IFR certified could still leave you with a pitot problem. If you are looking for a pitot leak, remember that it won't show up as a low airspeed indication with the test I suggested. Airspeed will go to whatever you put in, then bleed off. If the leak is pretty big, you might not see any indication at all, but since you are getting something close at lower speeds, I doubt you have a huge leak. The fact that two instruments agree pretty well rules out instrument error but not a leak common to both. What happens when you open the alternate static port? Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Marlow Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 9:02 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Static problems I just had a static check by an avionics shop, no leaks, IFR certified. I'm baffled. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Starter damage after kick back on hot start
Date: Jun 26, 2007
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
We about a week ago I gave a friend a ride in Central Washington. It was in the low 90's deg oat. I dropped him off and I was on the ground for 5 - 8 min. When I tried my normal hot restart I have been using for 2 years experienced a kick back. This was not normal at all and to keep it from doing it again I went full rich on mix and ran fuel pump for 5 seconds or so to add some cold fuel to the cylinders. I knew that it would give me a flooded condition but that was my intent. This added cool fuel the intake and I was able to make a flooded hot start with no problem. Here is the issue. Immediately after the kick back the starter started to make a grinding noise much like the old Chevy starters that needed shimming. I pulled apart the starter last night and looked it over. It looked fine. I called SkyTec this morning and the confirmed that a kick back will almost always cause a bent shaft in the starter. They make the starter so that it will give way on kick backs and save the ring gear. They said that to replace every part in the starter cost 150.00 buck and is a lot cheaper than messing with a new flywheel ring gear. I agree!. So be aware if a kick back happens to you and a new noise develops. Randy 40006 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: smaller diameter scat tubing in the tunnel?
Date: Jun 26, 2007
From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
Hey all - Perused the archives but could find nothing relating, so here goes... has anyone thought about using smaller diameter scat tubing in the tunnel to route heat to the rear pax? I know you'd need to neck it down somehow to attach, but it'd make the tunnel a bit less tight with everything that's going on in there. what say you all? cj #40410 fuse/finishing www.perfectlygoodairplane.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dsyvert(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 26, 2007
Subject: Re: Potential Gotcha on HS stabilizer attachment (looking
Bill, I will send it to them and let everyone know. Dave Syvertson 40625 ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Starter damage after kick back on hot start
Date: Jun 26, 2007
Randy, I had exactly the same thing happen after one of my first few starts, hadn't even flown the airplane yet. I did some research on the list and found this to not be uncommon. While avoidable I guess, I opted for the heavier duty starter per others recommendations and it's been great ever since. If I remember correctly it also has a different failure mode that enables you to replace one part vs. the whole starter. I recommend you do a search on the list for similar issues. Marcus 40286 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 1:55 PM Subject: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start We about a week ago I gave a friend a ride in Central Washington. It was in the low 90's deg oat. I dropped him off and I was on the ground for 5 - 8 min. When I tried my normal hot restart I have been using for 2 years experienced a kick back. This was not normal at all and to keep it from doing it again I went full rich on mix and ran fuel pump for 5 seconds or so to add some cold fuel to the cylinders. I knew that it would give me a flooded condition but that was my intent. This added cool fuel the intake and I was able to make a flooded hot start with no problem. Here is the issue. Immediately after the kick back the starter started to make a grinding noise much like the old Chevy starters that needed shimming. I pulled apart the starter last night and looked it over. It looked fine. I called SkyTec this morning and the confirmed that a kick back will almost always cause a bent shaft in the starter. They make the starter so that it will give way on kick backs and save the ring gear. They said that to replace every part in the starter cost 150.00 buck and is a lot cheaper than messing with a new flywheel ring gear. I agree!. So be aware if a kick back happens to you and a new noise develops. Randy 40006 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2007
From: Sam Marlow <sam(at)fr8dog.net>
Subject: Re: Static problems
Thanks Scott, I'll try that ASAP, will let the world know the results! Scott Gesele wrote: > > > >> From: Sam Marlow <sam(at)fr8dog.net> >> Subject: RV10-List: Static problems >> >> I'm having static problems, I think, not sure where >> to look though. >> Indicated airspeed seams to be accurate on the >> bottom end but 20 to 30 >> knots slow at cruise, verified with chase plane. The >> static was checked >> and certified IFR by an avionics shop, with no >> leaks. Looking for >> ideas...... >> Thanks, >> Sam >> >> > There are three potential sources for your error: > pitot, static, or instrument. > > Pitot: > Is your pitot installed exactly per Van's > instructions? If not, what changes have been made? A > pitot leak can be checked, and the instruments checked > for error, by using the method contained in the > following link: > > http://www.iflyez.com/manometer.shtml > > Many heated pitot tubes have a drain port. Ensure > that it is covered when performing the test. You may > want to try a test flight with the drain port covered. > All the drain port does is allow an exit path for > water. Don't fly in the rain with the drain covered. > > Static: > Just because the system was checked for leaks during > an IFR cert, does not rule out static errors. You > mentioned flush ports. These have been the cause of > numerous static errors on the RV fleet. Static errors > may be a function of airspeed. You can use GPS > altitude to determine if you have a static error that > is a function of airspeed. In VFR, severe clear, > conditions, start with the aircraft at rest on the > ground. Adjust the altimeter setting until the > altimeter matches the GPS altitude. Go fly. Start at > a safe altitude and Vs+10 kts. Record both the GPS > altitude and indicated altitude at various airspeeds > as the aircraft accelerates to cruise. Repeat as the > aircraft is slowed from cruise to Vs+10 kts (power at > idle). Perform this test while maintaining a specific > indicated altitude. Obtain the local altimeter > setting and land. If the above test shows the > indicated altitude to be less than the GPS altitude, > then your static port is reading a higher than ambient > pressure. This will cause an airspeed error. > > Instrument: > The pitot test above will check both the pitot system > for leaks, and the accuracy of the instruments. > > > > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. > http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2007
From: Sam Marlow <sam(at)fr8dog.net>
Subject: Re: Static problems
It jumps 20 + knots when disconnected! I watched the pitot test, he put a reference speed of 150kts in the test box, and my airspeed indicated 148kts. I don't understand what's happening here, but not giving up yet. Thanks for the response! Dave Saylor wrote: > Sam, > > When we get static checks, they only test the pitot system if we ask. > Even then it's an "information only" type check, no certification. > There's no requirement for a pitot check in 91.411/413, so having the > static system IFR certified could still leave you with a pitot problem. > > If you are looking for a pitot leak, remember that it won't show up as > a low airspeed indication with the test I suggested. Airspeed will go > to whatever you put in, then bleed off. If the leak is pretty big, > you might not see any indication at all, but since you are getting > something close at lower speeds, I doubt you have a huge leak. > > The fact that two instruments agree pretty well rules out instrument > error but not a leak common to both. > > What happens when you open the alternate static port? > > Dave Saylor > AirCrafters LLC > 140 Aviation Way > Watsonville, CA > 831-722-9141 > 831-750-0284 CL > www.AirCraftersLLC.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam Marlow > *Sent:* Monday, June 25, 2007 9:02 PM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Static problems > > I just had a static check by an avionics shop, no leaks, IFR > certified. I'm baffled. > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 27, 2007
From: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net>
Subject: Re: Starter damage after kick back on hot start
We had that failure a month ago in Whitehorse, a Glastar with an O-360 and a Prince prop and ignition about 3 deg to much on advance, the starter bracket cracked so we had to wait for another one to replace it and then adjust ignition first. Light props are more prone to be victim to that then "heavy" metal props with more momentum. br Werner Marcus Cooper wrote: > > Randy, > > I had exactly the same thing happen after one of my first few starts, > hadnt even flown the airplane yet. I did some research on the list > and found this to not be uncommon. While avoidable I guess, I opted > for the heavier duty starter per others recommendations and its been > great ever since. If I remember correctly it also has a different > failure mode that enables you to replace one part vs. the whole > starter. I recommend you do a search on the list for similar issues. > > Marcus > > 40286 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Randy DeBauw > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 26, 2007 1:55 PM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start > > We about a week ago I gave a friend a ride in Central Washington. It > was in the low 90s deg oat. I dropped him off and I was on the ground > for 5 8 min. When I tried my normal hot restart I have been using > for 2 years experienced a kick back. This was not normal at all and to > keep it from doing it again I went full rich on mix and ran fuel pump > for 5 seconds or so to add some cold fuel to the cylinders. I knew > that it would give me a flooded condition but that was my intent. This > added cool fuel the intake and I was able to make a flooded hot start > with no problem. Here is the issue. Immediately after the kick back > the starter started to make a grinding noise much like the old Chevy > starters that needed shimming. I pulled apart the starter last night > and looked it over. It looked fine. I called SkyTec this morning and > the confirmed that a kick back will almost always cause a bent shaft > in the starter. They make the starter so that it will give way on kick > backs and save the ring gear. They said that to replace every part in > the starter cost 150.00 buck and is a lot cheaper than messing with a > new flywheel ring gear. I agree!. So be aware if a kick back happens > to you and a new noise develops. Randy 40006 > > * * > * * > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > * * > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Sutherland" <mark_sutherland(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT info
Date: Jun 27, 2007
I have about 15 hrs on my RV-10 so far and I am having a blast. However my right calf muscle is getting worn out. What have RV-10 pilots been using for the rudder trim? I am looking at the TT Yaw Damper and would like to know if anyone has it installed and working? I am also looking at cheaper suggestion, like the piece of wood that Van used on the prototype. For those that have askeddetails are below. 611TT is equipped as follows, new TMX IO540 with one lightspeed, Hartzell 2 blade 2 GRT EFISs with EIS 6000, GNS480, GTX 330, GMA 340, TT RV-10 AP, Dash mounted Garmin 396, Vans Airspeed, Alt and compass. Preliminary numbers 170K TAS at 11.5K, 21/21, 9.5, ROP, still have a lot of tweaking and adjusting to go so stay tunedalso I have very light plane at the this point with no paint and interior, empty weight 1460lbs, flying at about 2000lb. Mark Sutherland 325-646-4156 mark(at)tintopranch.com www.tintopranch.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT info
Date: Jun 27, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Van continues to use the Wedge of Wood on the most recent build that He and his brother Jerry just completed. John Cox ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sutherland Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 4:34 PM Subject: RV10-List: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT info I have about 15 hrs on my RV-10 so far and I am having a blast. However my right calf muscle is getting worn out. What have RV-10 pilots been using for the rudder trim? I am looking at the TT Yaw Damper and would like to know if anyone has it installed and working? I am also looking at cheaper suggestion, like the piece of wood that Van used on the prototype. For those that have asked...details are below. 611TT is equipped as follows, new TMX IO540 with one lightspeed, Hartzell 2 blade 2 GRT EFISs with EIS 6000, GNS480, GTX 330, GMA 340, TT RV-10 AP, Dash mounted Garmin 396, Vans Airspeed, Alt and compass. Preliminary numbers 170K TAS at 11.5K, 21/21, 9.5, ROP, still have a lot of tweaking and adjusting to go so stay tuned...also I have very light plane at the this point with no paint and interior, empty weight 1460lbs, flying at about 2000lb. Mark Sutherland 325-646-4156 mark(at)tintopranch.com www.tintopranch.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT info
Date: Jun 28, 2007
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
Can anyone point me to a drawing of the dimensions and position on the rudder for this block? cheers, Ron 187 finishing ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox Sent: Thursday, 28 June 2007 9:43 AM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: RV10-List: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT info Van continues to use the Wedge of Wood on the most recent build that He and his brother Jerry just completed. John Cox ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sutherland Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 4:34 PM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT info I have about 15 hrs on my RV-10 so far and I am having a blast. However my right calf muscle is getting worn out. What have RV-10 pilots been using for the rudder trim? I am looking at the TT Yaw Damper and would like to know if anyone has it installed and working? I am also looking at cheaper suggestion, like the piece of wood that Van used on the prototype. For those that have asked...details are below. 611TT is equipped as follows, new TMX IO540 with one lightspeed, Hartzell 2 blade 2 GRT EFISs with EIS 6000, GNS480, GTX 330, GMA 340, TT RV-10 AP, Dash mounted Garmin 396, Vans Airspeed, Alt and compass. Preliminary numbers 170K TAS at 11.5K, 21/21, 9.5, ROP, still have a lot of tweaking and adjusting to go so stay tuned...also I have very light plane at the this point with no paint and interior, empty weight 1460lbs, flying at about 2000lb. Mark Sutherland 325-646-4156 mark(at)tintopranch.com www.tintopranch.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 27, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT info aka rudder
trim Has anybody figured out how to implement a rudder trim tab that doesn't have the hinge riveted on the outside? Deems Davis # 406 Engine / Wiring and Panel Stuff http://deemsrv10.com/ McGANN, Ron wrote: > Can anyone point me to a drawing of the dimensions and position on the > rudder for this block? > cheers, > Ron > 187 finishing > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John > W. Cox > *Sent:* Thursday, 28 June 2007 9:43 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and > 611TT info > > Van continues to use the Wedge of Wood on the most recent build > that He and his brother Jerry just completed. > > John Cox > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark > Sutherland > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 27, 2007 4:34 PM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT info > > I have about 15 hrs on my RV-10 so far and I am having a blast. > However my right calf muscle is getting worn out. What have RV-10 > pilots been using for the rudder trim? I am looking at the TT Yaw > Damper and would like to know if anyone has it installed and > working? I am also looking at cheaper suggestion, like the piece > of wood that Van used on the prototype. > > For those that have askeddetails are below. > > 611TT is equipped as follows, new TMX IO540 with one lightspeed, > Hartzell 2 blade > > 2 GRT EFISs with EIS 6000, GNS480, GTX 330, GMA 340, TT RV-10 AP, > Dash mounted Garmin 396, Vans Airspeed, Alt and compass. > > Preliminary numbers 170K TAS at 11.5K, 21/21, 9.5, ROP, still have > a lot of tweaking and adjusting to go so stay tunedalso I have > very light plane at the this point with no paint and interior, > empty weight 1460lbs, flying at about 2000lb. > > Mark Sutherland > > 325-646-4156 > > mark(at)tintopranch.com > > www.tintopranch.com > > * * > > * * > > ** > > *< Forum Email RV10-List The - >* > > *< to Navigator Features List Matronics>* > > *< Subscriptions the as such utilities>* > > *< Chat, Browse, 7-Day Download, & Search>* > > *< much and Photoshare,>* > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > > ** > > *< - FORUMS WEB MATRONICS NEW >* > > *< Web via available also now content>* > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > * * > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > * > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com>
Subject: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT info
Date: Jun 27, 2007
After 16 hours to Baja and back my right calf was killing me. I purchased the rudder trim block sold by Aircraft Spruce and installed it with double sided tape used to install molding on autos. Works great - no more leg cramps. I agree with Tim if N410MR had not been painted I would have gone with the electric trim system I've seen on the list. Mark N410MR >From: "Mark Sutherland" <mark_sutherland(at)yahoo.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV10-List: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT info >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 18:34:20 -0500 > >I have about 15 hrs on my RV-10 so far and I am having a blast. However my >right calf muscle is getting worn out. What have RV-10 pilots been using >for the rudder trim? I am looking at the TT Yaw Damper and would like to >know if anyone has it installed and working? I am also looking at cheaper >suggestion, like the piece of wood that Van used on the prototype. > >For those that have askeddetails are below. > >611TT is equipped as follows, new TMX IO540 with one lightspeed, Hartzell 2 >blade >2 GRT EFISs with EIS 6000, GNS480, GTX 330, GMA 340, TT RV-10 AP, Dash >mounted Garmin 396, Vans Airspeed, Alt and compass. >Preliminary numbers 170K TAS at 11.5K, 21/21, 9.5, ROP, still have a lot of >tweaking and adjusting to go so stay tunedalso I have very light plane at >the this point with no paint and interior, empty weight 1460lbs, flying at >about 2000lb. > >Mark Sutherland >325-646-4156 >mark(at)tintopranch.com >www.tintopranch.com > _________________________________________________________________ Who's that on the Red Carpet? Play & win glamorous prizes. http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=REDCARPET_hotmailtextlink3 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com>
Subject: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT info
Date: Jun 27, 2007
The one sold by Aircraft Spruce placed half way up from the horizontal stab works great for me. Mark N410MR >From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: RV10-List: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT info >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:51:06 +0930 > >Can anyone point me to a drawing of the dimensions and position on the >rudder for this block? > >cheers, >Ron >187 finishing > > >________________________________ > > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox > Sent: Thursday, 28 June 2007 9:43 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and >611TT info > > > Van continues to use the Wedge of Wood on the most recent build >that He and his brother Jerry just completed. > > > John Cox > > >________________________________ > > > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark >Sutherland > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 4:34 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT >info > > > I have about 15 hrs on my RV-10 so far and I am having a blast. >However my right calf muscle is getting worn out. What have RV-10 >pilots been using for the rudder trim? I am looking at the TT Yaw >Damper and would like to know if anyone has it installed and working? I >am also looking at cheaper suggestion, like the piece of wood that Van >used on the prototype. > > > For those that have asked...details are below. > > > 611TT is equipped as follows, new TMX IO540 with one lightspeed, >Hartzell 2 blade > > 2 GRT EFISs with EIS 6000, GNS480, GTX 330, GMA 340, TT RV-10 >AP, Dash mounted Garmin 396, Vans Airspeed, Alt and compass. > > Preliminary numbers 170K TAS at 11.5K, 21/21, 9.5, ROP, still >have a lot of tweaking and adjusting to go so stay tuned...also I have >very light plane at the this point with no paint and interior, empty >weight 1460lbs, flying at about 2000lb. > > > Mark Sutherland > > 325-646-4156 > > mark(at)tintopranch.com > > www.tintopranch.com > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > > > http://forums.matronics.com > > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail to go? Get your Hotmail, news, sports and much more! http://mobile.msn.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT info aka rudder
trim
Date: Jun 27, 2007
Deems, There were some photo's a few months ago on one of the forums, but I can't seem to find them now. It was a rudder trim that was built in to the trailing edge of the rudder. It looked pretty nice. I seem to remember the builder was in upstate NY, but I can't locate any information at this time. David Maib 40559 On Jun 27, 2007, at 7:35 PM, Deems Davis wrote: Has anybody figured out how to implement a rudder trim tab that doesn't have the hinge riveted on the outside? Deems Davis # 406 Engine / Wiring and Panel Stuff http://deemsrv10.com/ McGANN, Ron wrote: > Can anyone point me to a drawing of the dimensions and position on > the rudder for this block? > cheers, > Ron > 187 finishing > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John > W. Cox > *Sent:* Thursday, 28 June 2007 9:43 AM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and > 611TT info > > Van continues to use the Wedge of Wood on the most recent build > that He and his brother Jerry just completed. > > John Cox > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark > Sutherland > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 27, 2007 4:34 PM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT > info > > I have about 15 hrs on my RV-10 so far and I am having a blast. > However my right calf muscle is getting worn out. What have RV-10 > pilots been using for the rudder trim? I am looking at the TT Yaw > Damper and would like to know if anyone has it installed and > working? I am also looking at cheaper suggestion, like the piece > of wood that Van used on the prototype. > > For those that have askeddetails are below. > > 611TT is equipped as follows, new TMX IO540 with one lightspeed, > Hartzell 2 blade > > 2 GRT EFISs with EIS 6000, GNS480, GTX 330, GMA 340, TT RV-10 AP, > Dash mounted Garmin 396, Vans Airspeed, Alt and compass. > > Preliminary numbers 170K TAS at 11.5K, 21/21, 9.5, ROP, still have > a lot of tweaking and adjusting to go so stay tunedalso I have > very light plane at the this point with no paint and interior, > empty weight 1460lbs, flying at about 2000lb. > > Mark Sutherland > > 325-646-4156 > > mark(at)tintopranch.com > > www.tintopranch.com > > * * > > * * > > ** > > *< Forum Email RV10-List The - >* > > *< to Navigator Features List Matronics>* > > *< Subscriptions the as such utilities>* > > *< Chat, Browse, 7-Day Download, & Search>* > > *< much and Photoshare,>* > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > > ** > > *< - FORUMS WEB MATRONICS NEW >* > > *< Web via available also now content>* > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > * * > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http:// > www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > * > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 27, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT info aka rudder
trim Thanks Dave, I found the link it's a msg from Eric Parlow 01/24/07 lots of pics! Deems Davis # 406 Engine / Wiring and Panel Stuff http://deemsrv10.com/ David Maib wrote: > > Deems, > > There were some photo's a few months ago on one of the forums, but I > can't seem to find them now. It was a rudder trim that was built in to > the trailing edge of the rudder. It looked pretty nice. I seem to > remember the builder was in upstate NY, but I can't locate any > information at this time. > > David Maib > 40559 > > > On Jun 27, 2007, at 7:35 PM, Deems Davis wrote: > > > Has anybody figured out how to implement a rudder trim tab that > doesn't have the hinge riveted on the outside? > > Deems Davis # 406 > Engine / Wiring and Panel Stuff > http://deemsrv10.com/ > > McGANN, Ron wrote: >> Can anyone point me to a drawing of the dimensions and position on >> the rudder for this block? >> cheers, >> Ron >> 187 finishing >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John >> W. Cox >> *Sent:* Thursday, 28 June 2007 9:43 AM >> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and >> 611TT info >> >> Van continues to use the Wedge of Wood on the most recent build >> that He and his brother Jerry just completed. >> >> John Cox >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark >> Sutherland >> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 27, 2007 4:34 PM >> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> *Subject:* RV10-List: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT info >> >> I have about 15 hrs on my RV-10 so far and I am having a blast. >> However my right calf muscle is getting worn out. What have RV-10 >> pilots been using for the rudder trim? I am looking at the TT Yaw >> Damper and would like to know if anyone has it installed and >> working? I am also looking at cheaper suggestion, like the piece >> of wood that Van used on the prototype. >> >> For those that have askeddetails are below. >> >> 611TT is equipped as follows, new TMX IO540 with one lightspeed, >> Hartzell 2 blade >> >> 2 GRT EFISs with EIS 6000, GNS480, GTX 330, GMA 340, TT RV-10 AP, >> Dash mounted Garmin 396, Vans Airspeed, Alt and compass. >> >> Preliminary numbers 170K TAS at 11.5K, 21/21, 9.5, ROP, still have >> a lot of tweaking and adjusting to go so stay tunedalso I have >> very light plane at the this point with no paint and interior, >> empty weight 1460lbs, flying at about 2000lb. >> >> Mark Sutherland >> >> 325-646-4156 >> >> mark(at)tintopranch.com >> >> www.tintopranch.com >> >> * * >> >> * * >> >> ** >> >> *< Forum Email RV10-List The - >* >> >> *< to Navigator Features List Matronics>* >> >> *< Subscriptions the as such utilities>* >> >> *< Chat, Browse, 7-Day Download, & Search>* >> >> *< much and Photoshare,>* >> >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* >> >> ** >> >> *< - FORUMS WEB MATRONICS NEW >* >> >> *< Web via available also now content>* >> >> *http://forums.matronics.com* >> >> ** >> >> * * >> >> * >> >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> >> * >> >> * >> >> >> * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 27, 2007
From: Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com>
Subject: Sec 28 Wing Spar Hardware
Can anyone tell me where to find the washers called out on page 28-9, for attaching the center section spars? I don't understand why the hardware isn't even called out. i see them in the diagram, but no other mention about this step, which seems like a critical step when dealing with the wing attach hardware. I have the bolts and nuts. however, i don't seem to have any washers that will fit. No mention in the archives. It must be too obvious! Thanks for the info! Jae #40533 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 27, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT info aka rudder
trim Also found this pic on Steve Dineri's web-site. I e-mailed him for more info. http://www.iflyrv10.com/iflyrv10/Cool_mods_and_ideas/IMAG009A.JPG Deems Deems Davis wrote: > > Thanks Dave, I found the link it's a msg from Eric Parlow 01/24/07 > lots of pics! > > > Deems Davis # 406 > Engine / Wiring and Panel Stuff > http://deemsrv10.com/ > > David Maib wrote: >> >> Deems, >> >> There were some photo's a few months ago on one of the forums, but I >> can't seem to find them now. It was a rudder trim that was built in >> to the trailing edge of the rudder. It looked pretty nice. I seem to >> remember the builder was in upstate NY, but I can't locate any >> information at this time. >> >> David Maib >> 40559 >> >> >> On Jun 27, 2007, at 7:35 PM, Deems Davis wrote: >> >> >> Has anybody figured out how to implement a rudder trim tab that >> doesn't have the hinge riveted on the outside? >> >> Deems Davis # 406 >> Engine / Wiring and Panel Stuff >> http://deemsrv10.com/ >> >> McGANN, Ron wrote: >>> Can anyone point me to a drawing of the dimensions and position on >>> the rudder for this block? >>> cheers, >>> Ron >>> 187 finishing >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John >>> W. Cox >>> *Sent:* Thursday, 28 June 2007 9:43 AM >>> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and >>> 611TT info >>> >>> Van continues to use the Wedge of Wood on the most recent build >>> that He and his brother Jerry just completed. >>> >>> John Cox >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark >>> Sutherland >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 27, 2007 4:34 PM >>> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>> *Subject:* RV10-List: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT >>> info >>> >>> I have about 15 hrs on my RV-10 so far and I am having a blast. >>> However my right calf muscle is getting worn out. What have RV-10 >>> pilots been using for the rudder trim? I am looking at the TT Yaw >>> Damper and would like to know if anyone has it installed and >>> working? I am also looking at cheaper suggestion, like the piece >>> of wood that Van used on the prototype. >>> >>> For those that have askeddetails are below. >>> >>> 611TT is equipped as follows, new TMX IO540 with one lightspeed, >>> Hartzell 2 blade >>> >>> 2 GRT EFISs with EIS 6000, GNS480, GTX 330, GMA 340, TT RV-10 AP, >>> Dash mounted Garmin 396, Vans Airspeed, Alt and compass. >>> >>> Preliminary numbers 170K TAS at 11.5K, 21/21, 9.5, ROP, still have >>> a lot of tweaking and adjusting to go so stay tunedalso I have >>> very light plane at the this point with no paint and interior, >>> empty weight 1460lbs, flying at about 2000lb. >>> >>> Mark Sutherland >>> >>> 325-646-4156 >>> >>> mark(at)tintopranch.com >>> >>> www.tintopranch.com >>> >>> * * >>> >>> * * >>> >>> ** >>> >>> *< Forum Email RV10-List The - >* >>> >>> *< to Navigator Features List Matronics>* >>> >>> *< Subscriptions the as such utilities>* >>> >>> *< Chat, Browse, 7-Day Download, & Search>* >>> >>> *< much and Photoshare,>* >>> >>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* >>> >>> ** >>> >>> *< - FORUMS WEB MATRONICS NEW >* >>> >>> *< Web via available also now content>* >>> >>> *http://forums.matronics.com* >>> >>> ** >>> >>> * * >>> >>> * >>> >>> >>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>> >>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >>> >>> * >>> >>> * >>> >>> >>> * >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 27, 2007
From: effectus(at)rogers.com
Subject: Re: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT info
Mark,=0A=0AI have this modification listed ion my blog.=0A=0Awww.kitaircraf tmods.com=0A=0ADave Hertner=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Mar k Sutherland =0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com=0ASe nt: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 7:34:20 PM=0ASubject: RV10-List: Trutrak Yaw D amper for RV-10 AP and 611TT info=0A=0A=0AI have about 15 hrs on my RV-10 s o far and I am having a blast. However my right calf muscle is getting wor n out. What have RV-10 pilots been using for the rudder trim? I am lookin g at the TT Yaw Damper and would like to know if anyone has it installed an d working? I am also looking at cheaper suggestion, like the piece of wood that Van used on the prototype.=0A =0AFor those that have asked=85details are below.=0A =0A611TT is equipped as follows, new TMX IO540 with one light speed, Hartzell 2 blade=0A2 GRT EFISs with EIS 6000, GNS480, GTX 330, GMA 3 40, TT RV-10 AP, Dash mounted Garmin 396, Vans Airspeed, Alt and compass. =0APreliminary numbers 170K TAS at 11.5K, 21/21, 9.5, ROP, still have a lot of tweaking and adjusting to go so stay tuned=85also I have very light pla ne at the this point with no paint and interior, empty weight 1460lbs, flyi ng at about 2000lb.=0A =0AMark Sutherland=0A325-646-4156=0Amark@tintopranch =========================0A -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 27, 2007
From: Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com>
Subject: Re: Sec 28 Wing Spar Hardware
Argh. i just realized they are with the wing hardware! Jae ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: IO-540 on ebay
Date: Jun 28, 2007
From: <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero>
IO-540-C4B5 on eBay, $15,000 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220125754 0 66&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:US:11 TDT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Jun 28, 2007
Subject: Starter damage after kick back on hot start
Another option, probably the one you are referring to below, for those who like the Sky-Tec starters is to use the new High Torque Inline NL model. I t's 1.6lbs heavier than the original LS models but uses a simple shear pin to protect from kickback. Also, if I remember correctly, the wound field s tarters are less susceptible than the PM starters to causing the types of b attery drains that would cause a kickback. Being a dual LSE3 configuration , this was a definite concern of mine. http://www.skytecair.com/Lycoming.htm Michael Sausen -10 #352 Limbo From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 5:16 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start Randy, I had exactly the same thing happen after one of my first few starts, h adn't even flown the airplane yet. I did some research on the list and fou nd this to not be uncommon. While avoidable I guess, I opted for the heavi er duty starter per others recommendations and it's been great ever since. If I remember correctly it also has a different failure mode that enables you to replace one part vs. the whole starter. I recommend you do a search on the list for similar issues. Marcus 40286 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 1:55 PM Subject: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start We about a week ago I gave a friend a ride in Central Washington. It was i n the low 90's deg oat. I dropped him off and I was on the ground for 5 - 8 min. When I tried my normal hot restart I have been using for 2 years ex perienced a kick back. This was not normal at all and to keep it from doing it again I went full rich on mix and ran fuel pump for 5 seconds or so to add some cold fuel to the cylinders. I knew that it would give me a flooded condition but that was my intent. This added cool fuel the intake and I w as able to make a flooded hot start with no problem. Here is the issue. I mmediately after the kick back the starter started to make a grinding noise much like the old Chevy starters that needed shimming. I pulled apart the starter last night and looked it over. It looked fine. I called SkyTec thi s morning and the confirmed that a kick back will almost always cause a ben t shaft in the starter. They make the starter so that it will give way on k ick backs and save the ring gear. They said that to replace every part in t he starter cost 150.00 buck and is a lot cheaper than messing with a new fl ywheel ring gear. I agree!. So be aware if a kick back happens to you and a new noise develops. Randy 40006 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT info
Date: Jun 28, 2007
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy(at)abros.com>
Mark, I have a 4" long piece of tapered wood painted white and installed with clear tape. I started with an 8" piece and cut it down to this current size. I think the size is correct for my plane and I need to make it permanent but I don't want to be in a hurry. Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sutherland Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 4:34 PM Subject: RV10-List: Trutrak Yaw Damper for RV-10 AP and 611TT info I have about 15 hrs on my RV-10 so far and I am having a blast. However my right calf muscle is getting worn out. What have RV-10 pilots been using for the rudder trim? I am looking at the TT Yaw Damper and would like to know if anyone has it installed and working? I am also looking at cheaper suggestion, like the piece of wood that Van used on the prototype. For those that have asked...details are below. 611TT is equipped as follows, new TMX IO540 with one lightspeed, Hartzell 2 blade 2 GRT EFISs with EIS 6000, GNS480, GTX 330, GMA 340, TT RV-10 AP, Dash mounted Garmin 396, Vans Airspeed, Alt and compass. Preliminary numbers 170K TAS at 11.5K, 21/21, 9.5, ROP, still have a lot of tweaking and adjusting to go so stay tuned...also I have very light plane at the this point with no paint and interior, empty weight 1460lbs, flying at about 2000lb. Mark Sutherland 325-646-4156 mark(at)tintopranch.com www.tintopranch.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Starter damage after kick back on hot start
Date: Jun 28, 2007
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
Other factor is that the field wound starters have less inrush current draw than the PM types. If you've got LSE ignition(s) this is a potential issue although LSE has a version of their ignitions that mitigate it somewhat. Their preference if you have a PM starter is to have another small battery that does nothing except keep the voltage to the ignitions from sagging during the inrush. Bob #40105 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:10 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start Another option, probably the one you are referring to below, for those who like the Sky-Tec starters is to use the new High Torque Inline NL model. It's 1.6lbs heavier than the original LS models but uses a simple shear pin to protect from kickback. Also, if I remember correctly, the wound field starters are less susceptible than the PM starters to causing the types of battery drains that would cause a kickback. Being a dual LSE3 configuration, this was a definite concern of mine. http://www.skytecair.com/Lycoming.htm Michael Sausen -10 #352 Limbo From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 5:16 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start Randy, I had exactly the same thing happen after one of my first few starts, hadn't even flown the airplane yet. I did some research on the list and found this to not be uncommon. While avoidable I guess, I opted for the heavier duty starter per others recommendations and it's been great ever since. If I remember correctly it also has a different failure mode that enables you to replace one part vs. the whole starter. I recommend you do a search on the list for similar issues. Marcus 40286 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 1:55 PM Subject: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start We about a week ago I gave a friend a ride in Central Washington. It was in the low 90's deg oat. I dropped him off and I was on the ground for 5 - 8 min. When I tried my normal hot restart I have been using for 2 years experienced a kick back. This was not normal at all and to keep it from doing it again I went full rich on mix and ran fuel pump for 5 seconds or so to add some cold fuel to the cylinders. I knew that it would give me a flooded condition but that was my intent. This added cool fuel the intake and I was able to make a flooded hot start with no problem. Here is the issue. Immediately after the kick back the starter started to make a grinding noise much like the old Chevy starters that needed shimming. I pulled apart the starter last night and looked it over. It looked fine. I called SkyTec this morning and the confirmed that a kick back will almost always cause a bent shaft in the starter. They make the starter so that it will give way on kick backs and save the ring gear. They said that to replace every part in the starter cost 150.00 buck and is a lot cheaper than messing with a new flywheel ring gear. I agree!. So be aware if a kick back happens to you and a new noise develops. Randy 40006 ; - The RV10-List Email Forum -http://www.matronics.bsp; - NEW MATRONICS WEB FO; http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: OSH Lat
Date: Jun 28, 2007
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
OSH From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US SSA) Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 7:32 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start Other factor is that the field wound starters have less inrush current draw than the PM types. If you've got LSE ignition(s) this is a potential issue although LSE has a version of their ignitions that mitigate it somewhat. Their preference if you have a PM starter is to have another small battery that does nothing except keep the voltage to the ignitions from sagging during the inrush. Bob #40105 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:10 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start Another option, probably the one you are referring to below, for those who like the Sky-Tec starters is to use the new High Torque Inline NL model. It's 1.6lbs heavier than the original LS models but uses a simple shear pin to protect from kickback. Also, if I remember correctly, the wound field starters are less susceptible than the PM starters to causing the types of battery drains that would cause a kickback. Being a dual LSE3 configuration, this was a definite concern of mine. http://www.skytecair.com/Lycoming.htm Michael Sausen -10 #352 Limbo From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 5:16 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start Randy, I had exactly the same thing happen after one of my first few starts, hadn't even flown the airplane yet. I did some research on the list and found this to not be uncommon. While avoidable I guess, I opted for the heavier duty starter per others recommendations and it's been great ever since. If I remember correctly it also has a different failure mode that enables you to replace one part vs. the whole starter. I recommend you do a search on the list for similar issues. Marcus 40286 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 1:55 PM Subject: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start We about a week ago I gave a friend a ride in Central Washington. It was in the low 90's deg oat. I dropped him off and I was on the ground for 5 - 8 min. When I tried my normal hot restart I have been using for 2 years experienced a kick back. This was not normal at all and to keep it from doing it again I went full rich on mix and ran fuel pump for 5 seconds or so to add some cold fuel to the cylinders. I knew that it would give me a flooded condition but that was my intent. This added cool fuel the intake and I was able to make a flooded hot start with no problem. Here is the issue. Immediately after the kick back the starter started to make a grinding noise much like the old Chevy starters that needed shimming. I pulled apart the starter last night and looked it over. It looked fine. I called SkyTec this morning and the confirmed that a kick back will almost always cause a bent shaft in the starter. They make the starter so that it will give way on kick backs and save the ring gear. They said that to replace every part in the starter cost 150.00 buck and is a lot cheaper than messing with a new flywheel ring gear. I agree!. So be aware if a kick back happens to you and a new noise develops. Randy 40006 ; - The RV10-List Email Forum -http://www.matronics.bsp; - NEW MATRONICS WEB FO; http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: OSH Late Visit
Date: Jun 28, 2007
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
It turns out that I will be giving a presentation in Chicago the week after OSH. I have decided to fly into ORD a bit early o go to a concert Friday the 27th then drive to OSH Saturday AM for the last two days of Airventure. It will be my first visit to OSH (went to SNF this year). * Has anyone set up an meeting place & time for the -10 builders to meet? * Is OSH like SNF where they close down the ramp area between 10-5:00 so one can't walk the line? Hoping some of you will still be around by the time I get there. Robin Marks RV-4 Sold RV-6A 360 Hours RV-10 parts parts parts ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2007
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Chelton ADAHRS TSO'd
Thought this might be of interest to some here. Just found it on the Lancair list. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [LML] ADAHRS TSO Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 19:26:59 -0400 From: Brent Regan <brent(at)regandesigns.com> I am pleased to announce, with a measure of pride, that the Chelton ADAHRS (formerly Pinpoint) (http://www.cheltonfs.com/EX/specs.html) has passed all the DO160E test requirements and now has a freshly inked TSO. The system passed all tests as designed, without failure. DO160 has a number of different test levels for each of the 25 test categories. Test levels are determined by the type and application of the equipment tested. In most cases the ADAHRS was subjected to the highest, most difficult and most stringent levels. As a result, CFS ADAHRS components now qualify to be installed in a helicopter's composite tail boom operating in environments from -55 to +70 degrees C. Nasty. This is the first and only ADAHRS to pass the new direct and indirect lightning tests. Given the design challenges of designing a system that can survive these tests, I can say with confidence, that no other ADAHRS currently on the market would be able to pass these tests without redesign. The attached pictures show the OAT probe before and after the direct effect lighting test. Despite having 1/16" of the tip of the probe vaporized during the simulated lightning strike, both the probe and the ADAHRS it was attached to continued to operate normally. Lets see your Timex do that! The entire ADAHRS design team deserves a "Well done!". Boasting? Yep, earned it! Planted the seed, harvested the cotton, wove the fabric, sewed the garment and silk screened the message so now we "Got the T-shirt". CFS Press Release to follow. Regards Brent Regan ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV Amphibian
From: "dmaib(at)mac.com" <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Date: Jun 28, 2007
Mary and I met Trey Johnson in Eugene, OR last year while learning how to drill, dimple, deburr, rivet, proseal, etc from Wally Anderson at Synergy Air. Trey was finishing his Amphib RV-7 with Wally. Stephen Reynolds who is building an RV-7 he intends to take around the world, shot the video and apologizes for the quality. Pretty cool! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXTGNm5k_-I -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121139#121139 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0013_148.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV Amphibian
From: "dmaib(at)mac.com" <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Date: Jun 28, 2007
Mary and I met Trey Johnson last year while we were learning how to drill, dimple, deburr, rivet, proseal, etc from Wally Anderson at Synergy Air. Trey was finishing his RV-7 on amphibs with Wally. Stephen Reynolds, who is building an RV-7 to take around the world, shot the video and apologizes for the quality, but this is pretty cool. Who is going to do the first -10 on floats? 8) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXTGNm5k_-I -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121141#121141 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0013_108.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jdalton77" <jdalton77(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV Amphibian
Date: Jun 28, 2007
Boy, I'd love to do that. I was looking at the Murphy Moose before I bought the -10 kit, we live on a lake and would love to park the plane at the dock in the summer. Biggest problem is the drag . . . we want to go fast! Jeff Dalton Wings ----- Original Message ----- From: <dmaib(at)mac.com> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:15 PM Subject: RV10-List: RV Amphibian > > Mary and I met Trey Johnson last year while we were learning how to drill, > dimple, deburr, rivet, proseal, etc from Wally Anderson at Synergy Air. > Trey was finishing his RV-7 on amphibs with Wally. Stephen Reynolds, who > is building an RV-7 to take around the world, shot the video and > apologizes for the quality, but this is pretty cool. Who is going to do > the first -10 on floats? 8) > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXTGNm5k_-I > > -------- > David Maib > RV-10 #40559 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121141#121141 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0013_108.jpg > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2007
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Starter damage after kick back on hot start
Another option is Kelly Aerospace 'snew E-Drive starter, which is spec'd at less max current than the Skytec, has built-in kickback protection, etc. On 6/28/07, Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote: > > > Other factor is that the field wound starters have less inrush current draw > than the PM types. If you've got LSE ignition(s) this is a potential issue > although LSE has a version of their ignitions that mitigate it somewhat. > Their preference if you have a PM starter is to have another small battery > that does nothing except keep the voltage to the ignitions from sagging > during the inrush. > > > Bob #40105 > > > ________________________________ > > > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > RV Builder (Michael Sausen) > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:10 AM > > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start > > > Another option, probably the one you are referring to below, for those who > like the Sky-Tec starters is to use the new High Torque Inline NL model. > It's 1.6lbs heavier than the original LS models but uses a simple shear pin > to protect from kickback. Also, if I remember correctly, the wound field > starters are less susceptible than the PM starters to causing the types of > battery drains that would cause a kickback. Being a dual LSE3 > configuration, this was a definite concern of mine. > > > http://www.skytecair.com/Lycoming.htm > > > Michael Sausen > > -10 #352 Limbo > > > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Marcus Cooper > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 5:16 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start > > > Randy, > > I had exactly the same thing happen after one of my first few starts, > hadn't even flown the airplane yet. I did some research on the list and > found this to not be uncommon. While avoidable I guess, I opted for the > heavier duty starter per others recommendations and it's been great ever > since. If I remember correctly it also has a different failure mode that > enables you to replace one part vs. the whole starter. I recommend you do a > search on the list for similar issues. > > > Marcus > > 40286 > > > ________________________________ > > > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Randy DeBauw > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 1:55 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Starter damage after kick back on hot start > > > We about a week ago I gave a friend a ride in Central Washington. It was in > the low 90's deg oat. I dropped him off and I was on the ground for 5 8 > min. When I tried my normal hot restart I have been using for 2 years > experienced a kick back. This was not normal at all and to keep it from > doing it again I went full rich on mix and ran fuel pump for 5 seconds or so > to add some cold fuel to the cylinders. I knew that it would give me a > flooded condition but that was my intent. This added cool fuel the intake > and I was able to make a flooded hot start with no problem. Here is the > issue. Immediately after the kick back the starter started to make a > grinding noise much like the old Chevy starters that needed shimming. I > pulled apart the starter last night and looked it over. It looked fine. I > called SkyTec this morning and the confirmed that a kick back will almost > always cause a bent shaft in the starter. They make the starter so that it > will give way on kick backs and save the ring gear. They said that to > replace every part in the starter cost 150.00 buck and is a lot cheaper than > messing with a new flywheel ring gear. I agree!. So be aware if a kick back > happens to you and a new noise develops. Randy 40006 > > > ; - The RV10-List Email Forum -http://www.matronics.bsp; - NEW > MATRONICS WEB FO; http://forums.matronics.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com>
Subject: QB tanks
Date: Jun 28, 2007
So far so good. Two QB tanks tested, no leaks, never took them off the wings. The final test will be to fill them with fuel for engine testing and flight. Hopefully they remain sound. Just thought I'd let ya all know. By the way, I simply installed the fuel senders temporarily for the tests with the included gaskets, no pro-seal, and they did not leak. Must you use pro-seal for install, or is this just a prudent practice? I do plan on using the stuff, but the gaskets seem to work well on their own. Dave Leikam 40496 About to start putting the guts and wires in my wings. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "The McGough Family" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: QB tanks
Date: Jun 29, 2007
Dave how did you test them ? Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Leikam To: RV-10 matronics Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 3:42 PM Subject: RV10-List: QB tanks So far so good. Two QB tanks tested, no leaks, never took them off the wings. The final test will be to fill them with fuel for engine testing and flight. Hopefully they remain sound. Just thought I'd let ya all know. By the way, I simply installed the fuel senders temporarily for the tests with the included gaskets, no pro-seal, and they did not leak. Must you use pro-seal for install, or is this just a prudent practice? I do plan on using the stuff, but the gaskets seem to work well on their own. Dave Leikam 40496 About to start putting the guts and wires in my wings. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wire Book for RV-10
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Jun 29, 2007
I bought the wiring kit from Vans. It is expensive, but it provides the basic wiring for the RV10 including a pre-cut and rigged harness that covers all of your basic wiring needs (as they say for a VFR airplane.) It also includes instructions, but not a description of what & why It all fit in quite flawlessly. I was quite impressed. :D I do not know didley about wiring and elecrical stuff, but my IA friend brought me up to speed on what I was doing and assisted me with the installation. I also rigged my static line at the same time and threw some conduit in under the rear seats and baggage area for later additions. The kit also includes the dreaded #2 wire from the battery to the solenoid on the firewall. All in all, I probably saved 2 weeks on the electrical system - time will tell, but my IA friend gave me confidence that the kit did the job. With some trepidation I have buttoned up the baggage area and moved on to the control stuff. :? :? Hope to fly to OSH next year -------- OSH '08 or Bust Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121179#121179 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: QB tanks
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Jun 29, 2007
Yes - what was your leak test proceedure ??? -------- OSH '08 or Bust Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121180#121180 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim C" <tlc2(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: RV Amphibian
Date: Jun 29, 2007
Well Eustace Bowhay (Salmon Arm B.C.) put an RV-6 on floats and made work years ago. Was on the cover of Kitplanes back then.....He passed away last year....Some background 20,000hrs Flying time non-Airline or Military> http://vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=7209 Tim Cold Lk. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jdalton77" <jdalton77(at)comcast.net> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:02 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV Amphibian > > Boy, I'd love to do that. > > I was looking at the Murphy Moose before I bought the -10 kit, we live on a > lake and would love to park the plane at the dock in the summer. > > Biggest problem is the drag . . . we want to go fast! > > Jeff Dalton > Wings > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <dmaib(at)mac.com> > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:15 PM > Subject: RV10-List: RV Amphibian > > > > > > Mary and I met Trey Johnson last year while we were learning how to drill, > > dimple, deburr, rivet, proseal, etc from Wally Anderson at Synergy Air. > > Trey was finishing his RV-7 on amphibs with Wally. Stephen Reynolds, who > > is building an RV-7 to take around the world, shot the video and > > apologizes for the quality, but this is pretty cool. Who is going to do > > the first -10 on floats? 8) > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXTGNm5k_-I > > > > -------- > > David Maib > > RV-10 #40559 > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121141#121141 > > > > > > > > > > Attachments: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0013_108.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: QB tanks
Date: Jun 29, 2007
Dave, Some people are leaving out the gaskets completely and just using proseal and others are going the other extreme, using no proseal and just the gaskets. Either way has benefits. With just proseal, you will probably go longer without leaks, but if/when it becomes time to replace the senders, it will be more work to do so. Using just the gaskets makes it much easier to change the senders, but the rubber will most likely dry out and crack and give you leaks sometime down the road. Many are using the gaskets and putting anywhere from a little to a lot of proseal around them. We have started just using the gaskets after putting a little proseal around the nutplates inside the tank. I just tested a set of tanks and at first test there was a leak around one of the screws on one tank that was fixed by a quarter turn with a screwdriver. Maybe a good combination if you are worried would be just the gaskets and then a bead around the outside of the gasket with proseal, and maybe a little proseal around the screws (but not on the head). Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 1:43 AM Subject: RV10-List: QB tanks So far so good. Two QB tanks tested, no leaks, never took them off the wings. The final test will be to fill them with fuel for engine testing and flight. Hopefully they remain sound. Just thought I'd let ya all know. By the way, I simply installed the fuel senders temporarily for the tests with the included gaskets, no pro-seal, and they did not leak. Must you use pro-seal for install, or is this just a prudent practice? I do plan on using the stuff, but the gaskets seem to work well on their own. Dave Leikam 40496 About to start putting the guts and wires in my wings. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: QB tanks
Date: Jun 29, 2007
I installed the senders as I stated, then installed the quickdrain valves on the bottom of the wings. Purchased a small brass valve and necessary hardware from local store and installed that in the strainer fitting. I found a small rubber grommet and pushed that onto the vent fitting. Then put a balloon over the grommet and SLOWLY added air from compressor turned way down to almost nothing through the open valve. Watched the balloon grow to about 14" dia. Close valve. (Ya think?!) Sprayed dishsoap and water solution on fittings and valve to be sure nothing was leaking and waited overnight. Balloon still at 14". Sprayed soap on rivets just for grins and giggles, no bubbles. I am confident at this time there are no leaks. Down the road is another story, but I can't think of any more testing to do which would identify any problem areas. I did at first have a small leak in the valve, which I tightened and stopped the leak. Also the balloon over the vent fitting. I just wrapped electrical tape around the neck tightly and that stopped. I know some have found leaks in their QB tanks, but I really did not expect any. I have found the QB kits so far to be of very good quality and am guessing Van's must test them before install. On to the wing guts. Dave Leikam 40496 QB wing guts ----- Original Message ----- From: The McGough Family To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 1:10 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB tanks Dave how did you test them ? Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Leikam To: RV-10 matronics Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 3:42 PM Subject: RV10-List: QB tanks So far so good. Two QB tanks tested, no leaks, never took them off the wings. The final test will be to fill them with fuel for engine testing and flight. Hopefully they remain sound. Just thought I'd let ya all know. By the way, I simply installed the fuel senders temporarily for the tests with the included gaskets, no pro-seal, and they did not leak. Must you use pro-seal for install, or is this just a prudent practice? I do plan on using the stuff, but the gaskets seem to work well on their own. Dave Leikam 40496 About to start putting the guts and wires in my wings. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 29, 2007
From: Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: check your tire tubes...
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 070626X00800&key=1 A fellow RV-8 builder found a defective tube the hard way on his first test flight. He said inflate the tube and press on the seams to see if it leaks. The tube came from Vans and says Made In Mexico. Data point Vans was less than helpful when contacted. :-( Regards, Jay Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rudder Trim
From: "tintopranch" <mark_sutherland(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 29, 2007
I appears that no one is using the TT Yaw Damper with Rudder Trim. Price maybe the a factor, since it cost around $4000. I do not have time to make any major mods to the rudder, since I go to the paint shop this month. So I will be using a plastic wedge from ACS for now. However has anyone looked into using a spring biased system for rudder trim similar to the vans aileron trim system? -------- MARK SUTHERLAND RV-10 40292 Flying since June 07 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121216#121216 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV Amphibian
From: "dmaib(at)mac.com" <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Date: Jun 29, 2007
I believe Trey got the plans for his floats from Mr. Bowhay. -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121250#121250 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com>
Subject: Rudder Trim
Date: Jun 30, 2007
The only thing I have seen is this: http://bmnellis.com/BuilderIdeas/ruddertrim.htm I'm not sure which RV model it is from, nor if a similar system could work in the RV-10. It's something I plan to look into when I get further along with the fuselage. I definitely like the concept. Patrick -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tintopranch Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:00 AM Subject: RV10-List: Rudder Trim --> I appears that no one is using the TT Yaw Damper with Rudder Trim. Price maybe the a factor, since it cost around $4000. I do not have time to make any major mods to the rudder, since I go to the paint shop this month. So I will be using a plastic wedge from ACS for now. However has anyone looked into using a spring biased system for rudder trim similar to the vans aileron trim system? -------- MARK SUTHERLAND RV-10 40292 Flying since June 07 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121216#121216 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuselage foward center spar
From: "Eric_Kallio" <scout019(at)msn.com>
Date: Jun 30, 2007
When mating the forward and middle section of the fuse I ran into an issue concerning the wing bolt holes in the forward portion of the wing spar carry through. The plate on the front side of the spar web does not line up with the bolt holes. It is off by 1/16th of an inch. You can see in the picture attached. I have checked all down the spar to see if maybe I induced a warp or something to that affect in the web, but I found no indication of such and the pther 3 sets of wing bolts inserted beautifully. I am thinking that for a fix I may be able to file down web to match the hole without affecting the remainder of the bolt hole which must retain its close tolerance. What say you fellow builders? Any other suggestions? Eric Kallio 40518 SB fuse-trying to join the forward and mid fuse sections Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121408#121408 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/offset_spar_plate_436.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Fuselage foward center spar
Date: Jun 30, 2007
Eric, If you don't get a response from the list from someone that has experience the same thing, I'd HIGHLY recommend a call to Van's. They may have an explanation and the ideal fix, or could at least provide insight to the potential downsides (if any) to your proposed fix. The other advantage is if there is a manufacturing flow (odd how the holes don't line up??) maybe you can save someone else some headache. Good Luck, Marcus -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric_Kallio Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 4:12 PM Subject: RV10-List: Fuselage foward center spar When mating the forward and middle section of the fuse I ran into an issue concerning the wing bolt holes in the forward portion of the wing spar carry through. The plate on the front side of the spar web does not line up with the bolt holes. It is off by 1/16th of an inch. You can see in the picture attached. I have checked all down the spar to see if maybe I induced a warp or something to that affect in the web, but I found no indication of such and the pther 3 sets of wing bolts inserted beautifully. I am thinking that for a fix I may be able to file down web to match the hole without affecting the remainder of the bolt hole which must retain its close tolerance. What say you fellow builders? Any other suggestions? Eric Kallio 40518 SB fuse-trying to join the forward and mid fuse sections Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121408#121408 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/offset_spar_plate_436.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage foward center spar
From: "Eric_Kallio" <scout019(at)msn.com>
Date: Jul 01, 2007
I had planned on calling Vans on Monday regardless, I was fishing and hoping that if this had been seen before there was a fix floating around. My concern with getting a new part is that somewhere I was told that these were match drilled as a set with the wing spars and not interchangeable. Don't know about the validity of that never really followed up on it. Eric Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121511#121511 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 01, 2007
From: "Ronald L Owen" <flywithowen(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: OT: First user fees, now flight planning
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 01, 2007
From: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu>
Subject: sheet metal edge protector
On my RV-6A I used flexible plastic edge protector (photos attached) to protect items (wire, usually) from sharp sheet metal edges. I can't remember what this plastic stuff is called, or where to order it. I'd like to use some on my RV-10. Can anybody help me out with nomenclature and/or source? Thanks, Tim Lewis RV-6A N47TD, 930 hrs RV-10 N31TD (reserved) KHEF ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hilger" <ninepapa(at)bendbroadband.com>
Subject: Re: sheet metal edge protector
Date: Jul 01, 2007
You can buy it from Vans. MS21266-1N Plastic Edging Grommet. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Lewis" <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu> Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 11:25 AM Subject: RV10-List: sheet metal edge protector > On my RV-6A I used flexible plastic edge protector (photos attached) to > protect items (wire, usually) from sharp sheet metal edges. I can't > remember what this plastic stuff is called, or where to order it. I'd > like to use some on my RV-10. Can anybody help me out with nomenclature > and/or source? > > Thanks, > > Tim Lewis > RV-6A N47TD, 930 hrs > RV-10 N31TD (reserved) > KHEF > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 01, 2007
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: OT: First user fees, now flight planning
IIRC they simply process the file through one or the other DUAT vendors. I don't think they have direct access to FAA flight plan computers. On 7/1/07, Robert Wright wrote: > > www.fltplan.com free, legal filing, route selection based on aircraft type > and predicted or historical winds, etc. > > Rob Wright > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2007 11:04:20 AM > Subject: RV10-List: OT: First user fees, now flight planning > > > You know, it never ends.... > > I just read in GAnews today that the FAA isn't renewing the CSC and DTC > Duats contracts in September (extended now to June 2008). For many > people, those have been the great way to input flight plans, do flight > planning, and get FAA certified weather for pre-flight. I myself > use Golden Eagle FlightPrep, which is a CSC product (it's free and > fantastic). These companies have duked it out over the past 17 years > driving their product improvements through competition. Now, the FAA > decided to move that task fully to Lockheed Martin too...even though > they're becoming the laughing stock of FSS replacement currently. > (This will hopefully change, quick!) But, with a single-source > provider, we'll get what we get, and they have no incentive to make > things nicer for us. > > Why is it > > > ________________________________ > Get your own web address. > Have a HUGE year through > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: FW: No longer a glider!
Date: Jul 01, 2007
From: <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero>
Engine installed - no longer a glider! Rebuilt IO-540 by G&N Aircraft, Griffith, IN Tim D-T 40025 -- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage foward center spar
From: "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net>
Date: Jul 02, 2007
They are for shure not matchdrilled. The QB Kits are not matchdrilled eather. Michael -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121735#121735 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: sheet metal edge protector
Date: Jul 02, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
We call it tractor grommet, and we buy it at Aviall. Dan N289DT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Lewis Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 2:25 PM Subject: RV10-List: sheet metal edge protector On my RV-6A I used flexible plastic edge protector (photos attached) to protect items (wire, usually) from sharp sheet metal edges. I can't remember what this plastic stuff is called, or where to order it. I'd like to use some on my RV-10. Can anybody help me out with nomenclature and/or source? Thanks, Tim Lewis RV-6A N47TD, 930 hrs RV-10 N31TD (reserved) KHEF ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 02, 2007
From: Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: FW: No longer a glider!
Tim, I would be interested to know, for future reference, did you provide a core for G&N to work with or did they have one that you purchased from them? Ed Godfrey 40717 tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero wrote: > > *Engine installed no longer a glider!* > > *Rebuilt IO-540 by G&N Aircraft, Griffith, IN* > > * * > > *Tim D-T* > > *40025* > > -- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Camping share?
Date: Jul 02, 2007
From: <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero>
Anyone going to the latter half of the Oshkosh show and want to split the "overhead" cost of staking out a camping spot? I'd be using it the night of 24 July and 25 July, vacating on 26 July. Hit me off the list: tdt(at)aurora.aero TDT ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage foward center spar
From: "Eric_Kallio" <scout019(at)msn.com>
Date: Jul 02, 2007
After a conversation with Van's it is acceptable to file down the web of the spar. The key is to not enlarge the bolt holes through the spar. Hopefully this will save anyone else some worry if it happens to you also. The person I talked to said this wasn't the first occurence of this problem. I am willing to bet it won't be the last. Eric 40518-Starting fuse side skins Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121872#121872 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage foward center spar
Date: Jul 02, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Would everyone consider identifying whom at VANS they receive information from for future posts. The power of "VANS told me to do it this way" carries a lot of clout. Recently someone on the RV list said a DAR advised not to safety wire prop attachment bolts to the prop hub. That comment could be blasphemy and every DAR is smeared with the same dangerous advice that is brushed by that directive. This is not to diminish the value of advice but not all information is vetted or accurate. Safety for every builder should be consistent. It is amazing how a mis-understood piece of advice can be slightly altered with major event change. You are the Manufacturer and you set the quality standard. Its kind of like the Zenith TVs of decades ago. "The quality goes in before the name goes on". Zenith never identified the quality or when they shipped the production out of the USA for cheaper labor costs. Van just makes parts (and a great kit concept). Get a second opinion for the benefit of your loved ones on filing of structural members. The spar and its web is no minor component of your investment. As mass produced "Builder Assist" RV-10 kits make there way into the insurance pool, a simple misunderstanding can make for major structural change. Not all change is positive. John Cox - KUAO -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric_Kallio Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 3:59 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuselage foward center spar After a conversation with Van's it is acceptable to file down the web of the spar. The key is to not enlarge the bolt holes through the spar. Hopefully this will save anyone else some worry if it happens to you also. The person I talked to said this wasn't the first occurence of this problem. I am willing to bet it won't be the last. Eric 40518-Starting fuse side skins Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121872#121872 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Safety Wire protective sleeve
Date: Jul 02, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Harbor Freight is having a sale on a storage container and misc black shrink tubing to place over safety wire which can reduce the chance of chafing a prop, hub or oil filter canister <<13.gif>> . FYI Item 92300 with the attached coupon for $3.99. The container is a great drill bit storage tray when the shrink tubing is gone. Offer good till the 7th. John Cox #600 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 02, 2007
From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: FW: No longer a glider!
In the recent SportAviation I saw an ad for G&N (pg 154) NEW GENUINE LYCOMING "says no cores required, balanced and dyno tested." www.gnaircraft.com Pascal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Godfrey" <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 8:04 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: No longer a glider! > > Tim, > I would be interested to know, for future reference, did you provide a > core for G&N to work with or did they have one that you purchased from > them? > > Ed Godfrey > 40717 > > tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero wrote: >> >> *Engine installed no longer a glider!* >> >> *Rebuilt IO-540 by G&N Aircraft, Griffith, IN* >> >> * * >> >> *Tim D-T* >> >> *40025* >> >> -- >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: FW: No longer a glider!
Date: Jul 03, 2007
----- Original Message ----- From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 11:12 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: No longer a glider! > > In the recent SportAviation I saw an ad for G&N (pg 154) > NEW GENUINE LYCOMING > "says no cores required, balanced and dyno tested." www.gnaircraft.com G&N is one of the 5 engine shops authorized by Lycoming to build their experimental engine kit so, all the parts they use are new and come as a complete un-assembled kit from Lycoming. Modifications are also OK but I would check that with G&N. I bought the IO 540 for the 10 from them. They also rebuilt the core I used for the RV4. It was a great engine for the 750 hours that I flew the airplane. They run the engines in a test cell before delivery and are great folks to work with. Ask for Dennis Wyman. Dick Sipp RV4 sold RV10 N110DV, 40065 finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: OSH Camping Logistics
Date: Jul 02, 2007
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>
For those that are reserving sites at RV-10 HQ in Camp Scholler, I will send out an email to everybody probably late in the day on Tuesday 7/17 with contact cell phone numbers for Tim, Gary and I along with a map to the location. Game plan is that you should call one of us when about 20-30 minutes out and one of us will meet you at the Camp Scholler entrance with your campsite credentials and car pass. Obviously we won't know the exact location before Tuesday AM, but if you have any other questions feel free to contact me before then. *** Begin Advertisement *** Current count is up to 16 sites. Time is getting short if you want to reserve a site of your own! I have sent a confirmation email to all that I've received a check from - if you haven't received an email, I haven't received your check. I can also accept PayPal using my email address for the account. *** End Advertisement *** Bob #40105 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: No longer a glider
Date: Jul 03, 2007
From: <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero>
FYI, we had a core and some other parts and for a while were laboring under the delusion that we could put the engine together ourselves with the right manuals. Then we woke up and decided to ship the whole kit and caboodle to G&N and let the experts build up the engine and run it. TDT 40025 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: More testing with OAT and Static Ports.
Date: Jul 03, 2007
From: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com>
Over the weekend I changed out my flat faced static ports from Cleveland Tools to there new dome faced ones. When I called them about the error (TAS was 5 - 6 knots low on my Dynon versus 4-way GPS TAS) I was having with the original flat faced ones, they sent me the new dome faced ones at no charge (awesome folks at Cleveland). I also mounted another OAT in my left wing on the wing spar flange right in front of the middle inspection plate, which was connected to a General Purpose input on my Dynon Engine Monitor. My other OAT is mounted in the aft half moon bulkhead under the emp fairing, which is connected to the compass module for the Dynon EFIS. Well with these changes completed, Loal Wood (RV-7, XP-360 injected with cold induction, Dual OAT's in each wing) and Tom Deutsch (RV-10, IO-540, OAT in NACA vent inlet connected to Dynon Compass Module) went up to do some comparison testing. Loal was reading 61 degrees on both of his OAT's which were out in each wing, while I was reading 61 on my OAT that was out in the wing on the Dynon EMS, but my was reading 67 on my OAT under the emp fairing. Tom on the other hand was reading 68 on his OAT in the NACA vent inlet. Since all three of us had Dynon EFIS and EMS's with OAT connected, we concluded the correct OAT was from the OAT's that were mounted out in the wing regardless if they were connected to the EFIS or EMS, since Loal's both read the same value both on the ground and in the air. Now as for the TAS error I was seeing after my post from last week, which showed my Dynon TAS being 5 - 6 knots low. I did another run and here are the numbers. TRK IAS TAS GS OAT MAP RPM FF ALT DA ----------------------------------------------------- 0 144 168 182 60 22.0 2450 14.6 8500 10420 90 144 168 164 60 22.0 2450 14.6 8500 10420 180 144 169 158 60 22.0 2450 14.6 8500 10420 270 144 168 176 60 22.0 2450 14.5 8500 10420 ---- 170.3 From this I concluded that the domed faced static ports have corrected my TAS error to the point where I am reading 1 - 2 knots low versus 5 - 6 knots before. I believe this is the same experience that Tin Olson has seen when he changed his static port out. Also since I now had the OAT on the EMS with Dynon's latest 3.0RC4 beta code which now has the % HP, it was showing that this test run was at 74% power ROP. There is no doubt my speeds would be faster trying this again at a DA of 8000 versus the 10420, but I need to leave something for another day. Thank You Ray Doerr N519RV (40250) Hobbs 266 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Leffler" <rvmail(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: More testing with OAT and Static Ports.
Date: Jul 03, 2007
It doesn't appear that Cleaveland has updated their web site. What's the new part number? I'm assuming they are the same price as the old ones? Has anyone measured the ones from Rivethead-Aero yet? Do they exhibit similar issues? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R [NTK] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 9:48 AM Subject: RV10-List: More testing with OAT and Static Ports. Over the weekend I changed out my flat faced static ports from Cleveland Tools to there new dome faced ones. When I called them about the error (TAS was 5 - 6 knots low on my Dynon versus 4-way GPS TAS) I was having with the original flat faced ones, they sent me the new dome faced ones at no charge (awesome folks at Cleveland). I also mounted another OAT in my left wing on the wing spar flange right in front of the middle inspection plate, which was connected to a General Purpose input on my Dynon Engine Monitor. My other OAT is mounted in the aft half moon bulkhead under the emp fairing, which is connected to the compass module for the Dynon EFIS. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 03, 2007
From: rv10builder <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: More testing with OAT and Static Ports.
I know Mike follows this list...he can probably answer. BTW Mike...can you have a supply of the new static ports on hand at OSH'08? Brian #40308 Nashville, TN Bob Leffler wrote: > > It doesn't appear that Cleaveland has updated their web site. What's the > new part number? I'm assuming they are the same price as the old ones? > > Has anyone measured the ones from Rivethead-Aero yet? Do they exhibit > similar issues? > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R > [NTK] > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 9:48 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: More testing with OAT and Static Ports. > > > > Over the weekend I changed out my flat faced static ports from > Cleveland Tools to there new dome faced ones. When I called them about the > error (TAS was 5 - 6 knots low on my Dynon versus 4-way GPS TAS) I was > having with the original flat faced ones, they sent me the new dome faced > ones at no charge (awesome folks at Cleveland). I also mounted another OAT > in my left wing on the wing spar flange right in front of the middle > inspection plate, which was connected to a General Purpose input on my Dynon > Engine Monitor. My other OAT is mounted in the aft half moon bulkhead under > the emp fairing, which is connected to the compass module for the Dynon > EFIS. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Jul 03, 2007
Subject: FW: Avionics-List: Crossbow NAV425EX Service Bulletin
Pulled from another list......... -----Original Message----- From: owner-avionics-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-avionics-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike@Crossbow Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 4:49 PM Subject: Avionics-List: Crossbow NAV425EX Service Bulletin --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Mike@Crossbow" Due to a recent firmware update from our GPS manufacturer, Crossbow has published a service bulletin for the NAV425EX which contains details about a possible software update that may affect customers that are currently flying the NAV425EX. The software update provided by the GPS subsystem manufacturer contains improvements that eliminate the possibility of erroneous data during very specific satellite configurations. In addition, we have made some improvements to the magnetometer performance and BIT (built in test) status inside the NAV425EX. You can find the full details of this service bulletin, including the units affected using the link below. Sincerely, Michael Smith Application Engineer Crossbow Technology msmith(at)xbow.com [url][/url] -------- Michael Smith Application Engineer Inertial Systems Crossbow Technology msmith(at)xbow.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122053#122053 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage foward center spar
From: "Eric_Kallio" <scout019(at)msn.com>
Date: Jul 03, 2007
I believe it was Alan that I talked to. I had meant to write it down but forgot. Eric Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122062#122062 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kilopapa(at)antelecom.net
Subject: Re: More testing with OAT and Static Ports.
Date: Jul 03, 2007
Thanks for the update. Kevin 40494 ----- Original Message Follows ----- From: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com> > Now as for the TAS error I was seeing after my post >from last week, which showed my Dynon TAS being 5 - 6 knots >low. I did another run and here are the numbers. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 04, 2007
From: Edward Hershberger <elhershb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: More testing with OAT and Static Ports.
Pardon my comment on this. When Cleaveland Tool came out with the new domed static ports I became worried because I had the original flat ones installed. I called Mike about this and was told that the reason for the design change was to account for the fact that many were priming the inside of the skin. When doing this it took away the designed protuberance of _.010"_. When the back side is primed the face of static port becomes practically flat with the outside of the skin. This will not allow them to be in clean undisturbed air. So if you have primed the inside skin, you either need the new domed static ports or you need to machine the flat ones so they stick out _.010"_ above the outside skin. Ed Hershberger Wings Top Skins N410EP (res) Bob Leffler wrote: It doesn't appear that Cleaveland has updated their web site. What's the new part number? I'm assuming they are the same price as the old ones? Has anyone measured the ones from Rivethead-Aero yet? Do they exhibit similar issues? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R [NTK] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 9:48 AM Subject: RV10-List: More testing with OAT and Static Ports. Over the weekend I changed out my flat faced static ports from Cleveland Tools to there new dome faced ones. When I called them about the error (TAS was 5 - 6 knots low on my Dynon versus 4-way GPS TAS) I was having with the original flat faced ones, they sent me the new dome faced ones at no charge (awesome folks at Cleveland). I also mounted another OAT in my left wing on the wing spar flange right in front of the middle inspection plate, which was connected to a General Purpose input on my Dynon Engine Monitor. My other OAT is mounted in the aft half moon bulkhead under the emp fairing, which is connected to the compass module for the Dynon EFIS. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "The McGough Family" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: More testing with OAT and Static Ports.
Date: Jul 05, 2007
I just dont get it with my 6 we just used the Vans pop rivet. All acurate and no stuffing around reinventing ....whats the diference with the 10.....please excuse my ignorance. Is the location wrong? Chris 388 ----- Original Message ----- From: Edward Hershberger To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 12:32 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: More testing with OAT and Static Ports. Pardon my comment on this. When Cleaveland Tool came out with the new domed static ports I became worried because I had the original flat ones installed. I called Mike about this and was told that the reason for the design change was to account for the fact that many were priming the inside of the skin. When doing this it took away the designed protuberance of .010". When the back side is primed the face of static port becomes practically flat with the outside of the skin. This will not allow them to be in clean undisturbed air. So if you have primed the inside skin, you either need the new domed static ports or you need to machine the flat ones so they stick out .010" above the outside skin. Ed Hershberger Wings Top Skins N410EP (res) Bob Leffler wrote: It doesn't appear that Cleaveland has updated their web site. What's the new part number? I'm assuming they are the same price as the old ones? Has anyone measured the ones from Rivethead-Aero yet? Do they exhibit similar issues? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R [NTK] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 9:48 AM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: More testing with OAT and Static Ports. Over the weekend I changed out my flat faced static ports from Cleveland Tools to there new dome faced ones. When I called them about the error (TAS was 5 - 6 knots low on my Dynon versus 4-way GPS TAS) I was having with the original flat faced ones, they sent me the new dome faced ones at no charge (awesome folks at Cleveland). I also mounted another OAT in my left wing on the wing spar flange right in front of the middle inspection plate, which was connected to a General Purpose input on my Dynon Engine Monitor. My other OAT is mounted in the aft half moon bulkhead under the emp fairing, which is connected to the compass module for the Dynon EFIS. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 04, 2007
From: <sam.marlow(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: More testing with OAT and Static Ports.
It's driving me crazy, I wished I knew. I've installed the new Cleveland ports, and it helped, but it's still not correct. Van's can do better than this, I'm disappointed. Sam ---- The McGough Family wrote: > I just dont get it with my 6 we just used the Vans pop rivet. All acurate and no stuffing around reinventing ....whats the diference with the 10.....please excuse my ignorance. > > Is the location wrong? > > Chris 388 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Edward Hershberger > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 12:32 AM > Subject: Re: RV10-List: More testing with OAT and Static Ports. > > > Pardon my comment on this. When Cleaveland Tool came out with the new domed static ports I became worried because I had the original flat ones installed. I called Mike about this and was told that the reason for the design change was to account for the fact that many were priming the inside of the skin. When doing this it took away the designed protuberance of .010". When the back side is primed the face of static port becomes practically flat with the outside of the skin. This will not allow them to be in clean undisturbed air. > So if you have primed the inside skin, you either need the new domed static ports or you need to machine the flat ones so they stick out .010" above the outside skin. > > Ed Hershberger > Wings Top Skins > N410EP (res) > > Bob Leffler wrote: > > It doesn't appear that Cleaveland has updated their web site. What's the > new part number? I'm assuming they are the same price as the old ones? > > Has anyone measured the ones from Rivethead-Aero yet? Do they exhibit > similar issues? > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R > [NTK] > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 9:48 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: More testing with OAT and Static Ports. > > > > Over the weekend I changed out my flat faced static ports from > Cleveland Tools to there new dome faced ones. When I called them about the > error (TAS was 5 - 6 knots low on my Dynon versus 4-way GPS TAS) I was > having with the original flat faced ones, they sent me the new dome faced > ones at no charge (awesome folks at Cleveland). I also mounted another OAT > in my left wing on the wing spar flange right in front of the middle > inspection plate, which was connected to a General Purpose input on my Dynon > Engine Monitor. My other OAT is mounted in the aft half moon bulkhead under > the emp fairing, which is connected to the compass module for the Dynon > EFIS. > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LessDragProd(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 05, 2007
Subject: Testing the Static Ports.
Hi All, This test method was given to me from Dean Hall in testing he had done on his RV-4. Rational for the test method. The altimeter is only connected to the static port. On the sectional, locate a given height for a mountain peak, or whatever, near your airport. Set your altimeter station pressure to the reported station pressure. Verify that the altimeter reading and the actual field elevation are correct. Go up and fly past the mountain peak, or whatever, at cruise speed and report your altimeter reading. Dean Hall had installed a Piper style pitot/static tube on his RV-4, and the first flight past the mountain peak he found that his altimeter was off by 800 feet. Regards, Jim Ayers ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Gurley" <rngurley(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Electric Rudder Trim
Date: Jul 05, 2007
Dave - If I could ask, how did you attach your servo to the plate - with what type of harware? Dick Gurley -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dsyvert(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 8:51 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Electric Rudder Trim Bob, Sorry I can't remember the part number and can't seem to find it. For the servo I'm using the Ray Allen Co. T3-12A like Vic. You need to be aware that the arm is not centered on the servo but offset. This is why you should have the parts before cutting so you can lay it out. As far as the servo arm being perpendicular, both mine and his are. On his it looks like he put his plate parallel to the ground and then attached the servo to plate at an angle so the arm is perpendicular to the trailing edge. Also the servo would be parallel to the trailing edge. I did mine a bit different. I installed the access plate parallel to the trailing edge and not to the ground. Either way works. I'm still putting mine together whereas Vic's flying so I may have a hick up, but I think it will work. Dave Syvertson 40625 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Garmin 496 Wiring
Date: Jul 05, 2007
Has anyone wired up their 496 and solved these problem I have encountered? I am installing my 496 using the Air-Gizmos adaptor and Garmin's Power/Data cable. I want to connect the 496 to my Tru-Trak autopilot, the Dynon 180 EFIS, and the PMA8000 audio panel. The Garmin cable has 9 wires while the manual indicates only 7 (page 158). The manual says the yellow and blue wires are "Data in and out" but the tag on the cable labels these as "Port 1 in and out". In addition, the cable has 2 wires not mentioned in the manual, a green and violet pair labeled "Port 2 in and out". Questions: 1. What signal will be present on the Voice output? I want the XM radio signal to go to the audio panel, is this the right output to wire into an entertainment input? Do any of the alarm outputs appear here? 2. The PMA8000 has 4 unswitched audio inputs available. I wired the Dynon EFIS and EMS alarms into #1. I plan on wiring the Garmin alarm output into #2. I am assuming that XM music will not be present on this 496 output. 3. Would you wire the Dynon EFIS and EMS alarms together and into a single audio input (like Dynon suggests) or split them and wire into different audio inputs, IE, #1 (EFIS) and #2 (EMS) with the Garmin going into #3? 4. What is the difference between the 496 output labeled Port 1 and Port 2? I can find no mention of ports in the manual. Is there different information on them? In the setup screens on the 496 I don't see any mention of Ports. I am assuming I should wire the Port 1 in and out to the autopilot but the Dynon EFIS needs that input also. Do I send it to both or should Port 1 go to one and Port 2 to the other? 5. Apparently the 496 can tune the SL-30 Nav/Comm. If I choose to do this, the SL-30 need a data output from the 496. How is this done? 6. There is an audio mini-jack on the back of the 496 in addition to the wire in the wire in the cable assembly. If I wire the Alarm output into a audio panel audio input and the Voice output into an entertainment input have I separated the two signals so that the pilot gets the alarms and the passengers get only the XM radio signal? I assume then that this jack is only used when I remove the 496 from the plane. Albert (lost in space) Gardner Yuma, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "SteinAir, Inc." <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Garmin 496 Wiring
Date: Jul 05, 2007
Hi Albert, I'll take these in order the best I know how. 1) The voice output is useless (in my opinion, so don't hook it up)...even the alarm output is marginally usefull - but that's just my personal opinion. 2) Run the XM output from the 496 (use a stereo jack in the music output port from the GPS - not part of the power/data cable) into an "entertainment input" for the PMA. 3) Put the Dynon's together as they suggest. 4) Leave port 2 alone for now. Just split the port 1 wire to the various components. 5) When you set the serial port 1, you choose "Aviation In/NMEA & VHF OUT". 6) You'll need that jack to send the music to the audio panel. In the PMA8000, the Entertainment 1 is for front seaters and/or passengers and Ent#2 is for passengers only. You can decide how to configure them by pressing certain buttons on the panel - which will dictate who can hear what when! Basically we suggest wiring the XM to to ENT #1 unless you're using it for something else. We normally install the ENT#2 jack for the rear seaters in case they bring along their own IPOD or DVD player or such. Hope that helps! Cheers, Stein. >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Albert Gardner >Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:13 PM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: Garmin 496 Wiring > > >Has anyone wired up their 496 and solved these problem I have >encountered? I >am installing my 496 using the Air-Gizmos adaptor and Garmin's Power/Data >cable. I want to connect the 496 to my Tru-Trak autopilot, the Dynon 180 >EFIS, and the PMA8000 audio panel. The Garmin cable has 9 wires while the >manual indicates only 7 (page 158). The manual says the yellow and blue >wires are "Data in and out" but the tag on the cable labels these >as "Port 1 >in and out". In addition, the cable has 2 wires not mentioned in >the manual, >a green and violet pair labeled "Port 2 in and out". > >Questions: >1. What signal will be present on the Voice output? I want the XM radio >signal to go to the audio panel, is this the right output to wire into an >entertainment input? Do any of the alarm outputs appear here? > >2. The PMA8000 has 4 unswitched audio inputs available. I wired the Dynon >EFIS and EMS alarms into #1. I plan on wiring the Garmin alarm output into >#2. I am assuming that XM music will not be present on this 496 output. > >3. Would you wire the Dynon EFIS and EMS alarms together and into a single >audio input (like Dynon suggests) or split them and wire into different >audio inputs, IE, #1 (EFIS) and #2 (EMS) with the Garmin going into #3? > >4. What is the difference between the 496 output labeled Port 1 and Port 2? >I can find no mention of ports in the manual. Is there different >information >on them? In the setup screens on the 496 I don't see any mention >of Ports. I >am assuming I should wire the Port 1 in and out to the autopilot but the >Dynon EFIS needs that input also. Do I send it to both or should Port 1 go >to one and Port 2 to the other? > >5. Apparently the 496 can tune the SL-30 Nav/Comm. If I choose to do this, >the SL-30 need a data output from the 496. How is this done? > >6. There is an audio mini-jack on the back of the 496 in addition to the >wire in the wire in the cable assembly. If I wire the Alarm output into a >audio panel audio input and the Voice output into an entertainment input >have I separated the two signals so that the pilot gets the alarms and the >passengers get only the XM radio signal? I assume then that this jack is >only used when I remove the 496 from the plane. > >Albert (lost in space) Gardner >Yuma, AZ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Garmin 496 Wiring
Date: Jul 05, 2007
Hey Stein, I would have called you but I thought you were all on vacation this week. Thanks for the info, it was mucho needed. BTW, I think the air-Gizmo bracket is going to work fine, it really makes a nice setup just below the PMA8000 and above the SL-30 and 40. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 06, 2007
From: James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net>
Subject: Final Trimming of the Wingtip Lenses
Hey all, I'm tryting to do the final trimming of the wingtip lenses to fit into the wingtips, and I want to know: What tools did you use to do it? File? Sanding? Razor blade? Other? For rough trimming, I just used the tin snips, but it would be difficult to use them for final trimming without screwing up the part. Thanks! -Jim 40384 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com>
Subject: Final Trimming of the Wingtip Lenses
Date: Jul 06, 2007
A bench type belt sander works great. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Hein Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 10:44 AM Subject: RV10-List: Final Trimming of the Wingtip Lenses Hey all, I'm tryting to do the final trimming of the wingtip lenses to fit into the wingtips, and I want to know: What tools did you use to do it? File? Sanding? Razor blade? Other? For rough trimming, I just used the tin snips, but it would be difficult to


June 16, 2007 - July 06, 2007

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