RV10-Archive.digest.vol-cp
September 24, 2007 - October 08, 2007
tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero wrote:
>
> Dont the milled aluminum door guides REPLACE the delrin blocks on the
> door frame?
>
> TDT
> 40025
>
> Tim Dawson-Townsend
>
> Aurora Flight Sciences
>
> tdt(at)aurora.aero
>
> 617-500-4812 (office)
>
> 617-905-4800 (mobile)
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Ritter <mritter509(at)msn.com> |
Wayne,
LOE is on my calendar. Hope to see you there with that brand new paint job
.
Mark
RV-10/N410MR
From: wayne.e(at)grandecom.netTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RV10-List: L
OE flyinDate: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:40:14 -0500
I haven't seen much said about people planning on attending the Land of Enc
hantment flyin event the weekend of Oct 5th. Are many of you planning on at
tending? If I get my plane out of the paint shop and ready to go I plan on
being there. I know Russ Daves was over this weekend and told me that he is
going to be there. There will be a couple of us flying in from 16X. I'm tr
ying to get my wife braved up to be able to come with.
_________________________________________________________________
Capture your memories in an online journal!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Ritter <mritter509(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Prop Governor Question |
Michael,
Loosen the 5 screws on the face plate and clock the lever around to the 10:
00 position.
Mark
RV-10/N410MR
> Subject: RV10-List: Prop Governor Question> From: rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> D
10-List message posted by: "Michael Wellenzohn" > > I
installed the prop governor a couple days ago but I thing that the orienta
tion of the lever is wrong. > Before I cut the hole for the cable in the ba
ffeling assembly I want to be sure that this is right?> > If you could atta
ch a picture of your installation that would help most. I used the MT FWF K
it and the governor came as you see in the picture.> > Michael> > -------->
RV-10 builder (fuselage)> #511> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > ht
tp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136112#136112> > > > > Attachme
========> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Capture your memories in an online journal!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fast Stack Wiring Harness |
| From: | "Bill Reining" <wreining(at)gmail.com> |
Here's a link to their web site: http://www.approachfaststack.com/
--------
Bill (and Jon) Reining
40514
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136147#136147
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Prop Governor Question |
| From: | "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> |
Great,
thanks for your answers.
Michael
www.wellenzohn.net
--------
RV-10 builder (fuselage)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136178#136178
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com> |
Wayne,
Five Rv's coming from this area.
Dean 805HL 100 hours
_____________________________________________________________
Click to find local singles for dating, romance and fun.
http://3rdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iif6R5fyKsiQaXF5KZpLMUiIJ
CQ4AImBZEmJqXYEAnsLKAIBu/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel Tanks - To Alodine or Not to Alodine - That is the Question? |
| From: | "Patrick Pulis" <patrick.pulis(at)seagas.com.au> |
Could anyone please tell me the pro's and con's of alodining fuel tanks
prior to construction?
Is this warranted or a wasted effort that will create problems with
proseal adhesion or the like?
My initial thoughts are to alodine the tanks.
Many thanks in anticipation for your response.
Patrick Pulis
#40299
Adelaide, South Ausralia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com> |
| Subject: | QB Wings: Page 16-2 Step 3 |
I'm still working through double checking all the QB Wings+Fuse plan steps
and encountered an issue with one of the uncompleted wing steps.
Page 16-2 Step 3 where you #19 drill the center nut plate holes for the wing
root fairing attach. The center holes have not been drilled, so I am
drilling them. The problem is that there are 3 layers of aluminum already
riveted together which must be drilled through: rib, wing walk doubler, and
top skin. When drilling out the center hole, I am getting bur/chip
production between the layers.
I'm using a #19 jobber bit and going slow, but I am not able to avoid
separation of the layers due to chips. It's too tight to use a chip chaser
without damaging the skins. I was able to clean out the first two and then
stopped to research before proceeding.
Was this step completed for any others with QB wings or is this a standard
task for the builder to complete?
Any suggestions for avoiding the burrs/chips in between the layers while
drilling?
Best Regards,
Patrick 40715
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: QB Wings: Page 16-2 Step 3 |
Patrick,
I had the same issue with my QB kit, although, I don't have any suggestions
for you. Just do the best you can. It is certainly a good idea to check every
step in the plans to make sure it was done and done correctly. I spent
probably a week checking/fixing stuff before actually starting work. I found it
quite disturbing that they failed to drill the center holes for almost every
single nut plate installed in the QB fuse. That makes it pretty hard to drill
and properly debur those holes (especially when there are multiple layers of
aluminum). Good luck.
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 9/25/2007 7:47:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
poneill(at)irealms.com writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Patrick ONeill"
I'm still working through double checking all the QB Wings+Fuse plan steps
and encountered an issue with one of the uncompleted wing steps.
Page 16-2 Step 3 where you #19 drill the center nut plate holes for the wing
root fairing attach. The center holes have not been drilled, so I am
drilling them. The problem is that there are 3 layers of aluminum already
riveted together which must be drilled through: rib, wing walk doubler, and
top skin. When drilling out the center hole, I am getting bur/chip
production between the layers.
I'm using a #19 jobber bit and going slow, but I am not able to avoid
separation of the layers due to chips. It's too tight to use a chip chaser
without damaging the skins. I was able to clean out the first two and then
stopped to research before proceeding.
Was this step completed for any others with QB wings or is this a standard
task for the builder to complete?
Any suggestions for avoiding the burrs/chips in between the layers while
drilling?
Best Regards,
Patrick 40715
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
_http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jesse Saint" <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
| Subject: | QB Wings: Page 16-2 Step 3 |
If you use a couple of cleco clamps to hold the skins together, then run a
#40 bit first, then #30 and then go up to #19, that should help a lot on the
burrs. The cleco clamps should do a fairly good job of holding the skins
together. Also, if you just put a little bit of pressure and let the bit do
the work, the skins will not be separated as much while drilling.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
_____
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com [mailto:JSMcGrew(at)aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wings: Page 16-2 Step 3
Patrick,
I had the same issue with my QB kit, although, I don't have any suggestions
for you. Just do the best you can. It is certainly a good idea to check
every step in the plans to make sure it was done and done correctly. I spent
probably a week checking/fixing stuff before actually starting work. I found
it quite disturbing that they failed to drill the center holes for almost
every single nut plate installed in the QB fuse. That makes it pretty hard
to drill and properly debur those holes (especially when there are multiple
layers of aluminum). Good luck.
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 9/25/2007 7:47:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
poneill(at)irealms.com writes:
I'm still working through double checking all the QB Wings+Fuse plan steps
and encountered an issue with one of the uncompleted wing steps.
Page 16-2 Step 3 where you #19 drill the center nut plate holes for the wing
root fairing attach. The center holes have not been drilled, so I am
drilling them. The problem is that there are 3 layers of aluminum already
riveted together which must be drilled through: rib, wing walk doubler, and
top skin. When drilling out the center hole, I am getting bur/chip
production between the layers.
I'm using a #19 jobber bit and going slow, but I am not able to avoid
separation of the layers due to chips. It's too tight to use a chip chaser
without damaging the skins. I was able to clean out the first two and then
stopped to research before proceeding.
Was this step completed for any others with QB wings or is this a standard
task for the builder to complete?
Any suggestions for avoiding the burrs/chips in between the layers while
drilling?
Best Regards,
Patrick 40715
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew
_____
See what's new at AOL.com and .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: QB Wings: Page 16-2 Step 3 |
| From: | "Bill Reining" <wreining(at)gmail.com> |
Be careful, there is a gotcha here. One of the nutplates is different, such that the screw hole is on the side, rather than the middle. The plans are correct. See Tim Olsen's comments in his gotchas section here: http://www.myrv10.com/tips/gotchas.html
--------
Bill (and Jon) Reining
40514
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136366#136366
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Special fitting required |
| From: | "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> |
Hi,
I moved the Andair fuel valve further to the floor and would require a special
fitting with two 90 elbows (see attached photoshop picture)
Does anyone know if something like this exists and where I could get one?
Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (fuselage)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136373#136373
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fitting_210.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Special fitting required |
| From: | "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> |
You could use a manifold fitting from Spruce, or just take 2 T's and connect them
with the smallest flares you can make, or you can get the small/ short double
female flares from summit racing, expensive but worth it when space is a premium.
Dan
N289DT RV10E Flying
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Wellenzohn
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 1:38 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Special fitting required
Hi,
I moved the Andair fuel valve further to the floor and would require a special
fitting with two 90 elbows (see attached photoshop picture)
Does anyone know if something like this exists and where I could get one?
Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (fuselage)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136373#136373
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fitting_210.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Special fitting required |
| From: | "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> |
The picture just shows how it roughfly should look like, of course there should
be enough room to tighten the nuts. I don't have enough room combine two t-fittings.
Looks like I need to remove the fuel filter / pump brackets and position
them a little more towards the firewall to gain more space.
Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (fuselage)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136412#136412
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: QB Wings: Page 16-2 Step 3 |
Use a step drill to just under 19 and then 19 drill and then it will be
perfect
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 9:57 PM
Subject: RV10-List: QB Wings: Page 16-2 Step 3
>
> I'm still working through double checking all the QB Wings+Fuse plan steps
> and encountered an issue with one of the uncompleted wing steps.
>
> Page 16-2 Step 3 where you #19 drill the center nut plate holes for the
> wing
> root fairing attach. The center holes have not been drilled, so I am
> drilling them. The problem is that there are 3 layers of aluminum already
> riveted together which must be drilled through: rib, wing walk doubler,
> and
> top skin. When drilling out the center hole, I am getting bur/chip
> production between the layers.
>
> I'm using a #19 jobber bit and going slow, but I am not able to avoid
> separation of the layers due to chips. It's too tight to use a chip
> chaser
> without damaging the skins. I was able to clean out the first two and
> then
> stopped to research before proceeding.
>
> Was this step completed for any others with QB wings or is this a standard
> task for the builder to complete?
>
> Any suggestions for avoiding the burrs/chips in between the layers while
> drilling?
>
> Best Regards,
> Patrick 40715
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dunne" <acs(at)acspropeller.com.au> |
| Subject: | Fuel Tanks - To Alodine or Not to Alodine - That is the |
Question?
Pat, the way I see it is the alodine is protection against corrosion and a
good basis for paint adhesion, neither of which should be required inside
your tanks.
The hard thing to do would be to NOT alodine the internal, especially if you
are using a dipping method.
Of course there's much more to alodining beyond your general question:
types, class, application, process control and testing and the question that
maybe should be asked is, given the type of chemical conversion coating that
is used, what is the consequence of any inferior application and avgas
contamination? "After application, the coating shall be continuous
and substantially free from powdery and loose areas" (MIL-DTL-81706B).
Done correctly, added protection, no problem.
John 40315
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Pulis
Sent: Tuesday, 25 September 2007 4:17 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Tanks - To Alodine or Not to Alodine - That is the
Question?
Could anyone please tell me the pro's and con's of alodining fuel tanks
prior to construction?
Is this warranted or a wasted effort that will create problems with
proseal adhesion or the like?
My initial thoughts are to alodine the tanks.
Many thanks in anticipation for your response.
Patrick Pulis
#40299
Adelaide, South Ausralia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co |
This is a crass commercial announcement. Sorry, but we are as serious as a
heart attack in getting the word out. Please read the letter below and
either delete it or act on it.
Dear Potential Member
This letter is to update all interested prospected members regarding
progress we have made in making Aircraft Mutual Benefit group a reality.
Initially we were hoping to provide aircraft hull coverage and builder's
risk. We have discovered that we could provide a better package to the RV
builder that also includes liability coverage. Sort of a one stop shop for
your insurance needs.
In June we had a meeting with the broker to discuss the possibilities to
offer an alternative insurance product to RV builders and flyers. We were
advised that the concept was good and the next step would be to have an
actuarial study and an independent audit to verify that the program would be
a financial success to the members of the group. This information from these
studies would be used to assess the feasibility of the program. This in turn
would be presented to different underwriter insurers to purchase the master
insurance coverage above the group deductible to make the program function.
We will be seeking quotes from several insurers to obtain the best cost for
the group. Once an agreeable quote is provided, the cost of premiums will be
established to fund the insurance. This will allow us to provide a fixed
cost for annual premiums for each member.
The group will be a captive program essentially insuring itself up to a
certain amount. This amount will be established by the financial audit and
the actuaries. If that amount is exceeded then the excess insurance will
trigger and provide coverage.
The estimated costs to complete the actuarial study, financial audit and
feasibility study are estimated at $30,000.00 to $45,000.00.
How the program will work.
1. Each member will have a membership fee to belong to the program.
This feel will be $2000.00 and will be a one time membership fee to
establish your personal membership account. All members will start with a
$2000.00 account. As profits are realized in this business a portion of
those profits will go into your member account proportional to the balance
in the account. (A similar process as what happens in your USAA insurance
account, if you are insured by USAA.)
2. As capital exceeds that required by the company for reserves and
normal customary business expenses a return on premium will be sent to the
member on the anniversary of their membership. This premium rebate will be
in addition to the 25% reduction that they receive by being in the group.
3. If the member no longer is flying a RV and wants to withdraw from
Aircraft Mutual Benefit they will receive the balance on their membership
account as a final settlement and the membership shall be terminated at that
time. If conditions change and they want to return membership they shall
again have to open their membership account with the preliminary deposit.
This balance is subject to annual losses from operations.
At this time we would like to start collecting a portion of the membership
fee in the amount of $150.00 per member to fund the various studies that are
needed to go forth. This money would be credited towards the initial
membership fee but will not committed until we have contracted for the audit
and feasibility studies.
By asking for a percentage of the membership fee we are able to get an
indication of the willingness of the RV population at large to participate
in such a program. We will return all the money in the event we do not
reach the $30,000.00 to $45,000.00 required to complete the studies. If we
do receive the necessary interest and funds then we will consider that as a
down payment on the membership account.
We look forward to your response and participation to become a member of
this group. Considering the safety record of RV aircraft we can start
insuring ourselves and paying for ourselves not the entire general aviation
market.
Bob Kaufmann Rick Sked
Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co. Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co.
bob(at)AIRCRAFTMUTUAL.COM rick(at)AIRCRAFTMUTUAL.COM
RV-10 20B Rotary Engine, RV-10 IO-540, almost ready
to slip the
Working on the intake and exhaust surly bounds of earth.
PS. We are asking that the checks be sent to Aircraft Mutual at 1930
Village Center Circle, Suite 3-833, Las Vegas, NV 89134. If you are going
to LOE then I will be around Russ Daves RV-10 but will be wearing an
Aircraft Mutual Polo and Hat. I would welcome questions and potential
deposits there also. We are expecting that all will be in place and
finished by the first of the year and the RV community can begin to self
cover itself at that time.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Special fitting required |
| From: | "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> |
If you don't find that then maybe a manifold would work.
MANIFOLD AL FITTING FAB-1-0-6
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/anfittings/manifoldfitting.jpg
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/alummanifoldfit.php
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
-------- Original Message --------
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I moved the Andair fuel valve further to the floor and would require a special
fitting with two 90 elbows (see attached photoshop picture)
>
> Does anyone know if something like this exists and where I could get one?
>
> Michael
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (fuselage)
> #511
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136373#136373
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/fitting_210.jpg
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co |
Questions:
1. How does the risk pool of RV flyer's compare to the "average risk
pool" of single engine fixed gear planes? What are the numbers?
2. Can you project at this time how much liability and hull coverage
would be for the RV 10 at say, 150 -175 k value?
3. Would others who are now flying then share their costs with the group?
4. How would this effect cavemen??
Fred Williams
40515
Trying not to write anything untrue or stupid for the rest of the month.
bob.kaufmann wrote:
>
> This is a crass commercial announcement. Sorry, but we are as serious as a
> heart attack in getting the word out. Please read the letter below and
> either delete it or act on it.
>
> Dear Potential Member
>
> This letter is to update all interested prospected members regarding
> progress we have made in making Aircraft Mutual Benefit group a reality.
> Initially we were hoping to provide aircraft hull coverage and builder's
> risk. We have discovered that we could provide a better package to the RV
> builder that also includes liability coverage. Sort of a one stop shop for
> your insurance needs.
>
> In June we had a meeting with the broker to discuss the possibilities to
> offer an alternative insurance product to RV builders and flyers. We were
> advised that the concept was good and the next step would be to have an
> actuarial study and an independent audit to verify that the program would be
> a financial success to the members of the group. This information from these
> studies would be used to assess the feasibility of the program. This in turn
> would be presented to different underwriter insurers to purchase the master
> insurance coverage above the group deductible to make the program function.
> We will be seeking quotes from several insurers to obtain the best cost for
> the group. Once an agreeable quote is provided, the cost of premiums will be
> established to fund the insurance. This will allow us to provide a fixed
> cost for annual premiums for each member.
>
> The group will be a captive program essentially insuring itself up to a
> certain amount. This amount will be established by the financial audit and
> the actuaries. If that amount is exceeded then the excess insurance will
> trigger and provide coverage.
>
> The estimated costs to complete the actuarial study, financial audit and
> feasibility study are estimated at $30,000.00 to $45,000.00.
>
> How the program will work.
>
> 1. Each member will have a membership fee to belong to the program.
> This feel will be $2000.00 and will be a one time membership fee to
> establish your personal membership account. All members will start with a
> $2000.00 account. As profits are realized in this business a portion of
> those profits will go into your member account proportional to the balance
> in the account. (A similar process as what happens in your USAA insurance
> account, if you are insured by USAA.)
> 2. As capital exceeds that required by the company for reserves and
> normal customary business expenses a return on premium will be sent to the
> member on the anniversary of their membership. This premium rebate will be
> in addition to the 25% reduction that they receive by being in the group.
> 3. If the member no longer is flying a RV and wants to withdraw from
> Aircraft Mutual Benefit they will receive the balance on their membership
> account as a final settlement and the membership shall be terminated at that
> time. If conditions change and they want to return membership they shall
> again have to open their membership account with the preliminary deposit.
> This balance is subject to annual losses from operations.
>
> At this time we would like to start collecting a portion of the membership
> fee in the amount of $150.00 per member to fund the various studies that are
> needed to go forth. This money would be credited towards the initial
> membership fee but will not committed until we have contracted for the audit
> and feasibility studies.
>
> By asking for a percentage of the membership fee we are able to get an
> indication of the willingness of the RV population at large to participate
> in such a program. We will return all the money in the event we do not
> reach the $30,000.00 to $45,000.00 required to complete the studies. If we
> do receive the necessary interest and funds then we will consider that as a
> down payment on the membership account.
>
> We look forward to your response and participation to become a member of
> this group. Considering the safety record of RV aircraft we can start
> insuring ourselves and paying for ourselves not the entire general aviation
> market.
>
>
> Bob Kaufmann Rick Sked
> Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co. Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co.
> bob(at)AIRCRAFTMUTUAL.COM rick(at)AIRCRAFTMUTUAL.COM
> RV-10 20B Rotary Engine, RV-10 IO-540, almost ready
> to slip the
> Working on the intake and exhaust surly bounds of earth.
>
> PS. We are asking that the checks be sent to Aircraft Mutual at 1930
> Village Center Circle, Suite 3-833, Las Vegas, NV 89134. If you are going
> to LOE then I will be around Russ Daves RV-10 but will be wearing an
> Aircraft Mutual Polo and Hat. I would welcome questions and potential
> deposits there also. We are expecting that all will be in place and
> finished by the first of the year and the RV community can begin to self
> cover itself at that time.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co |
I think this letter is a prime example of what should NOT be on the RV-10
List.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
-----Original Message-----
Subject: RV10-List: Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co
posted by: "bob.kaufmann"
Bob Kaufmann Rick Sked
Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co. Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co.
bob(at)AIRCRAFTMUTUAL.COM rick(at)AIRCRAFTMUTUAL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co |
Al, I respectfully disagree. I have not made up my mind on this, but
I believe the RV-10 list is the right venue for Bob and Rick to reach
us all.
John Ackerman
40458 finishing kit
On Sep 26, 2007, at 5:14 PM, Albert Gardner wrote:
>
>
> I think this letter is a prime example of what should NOT be on the
> RV-10
> List.
> Albert Gardner
> Yuma, AZ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Subject: RV10-List: Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co
> posted by: "bob.kaufmann"
> Bob Kaufmann Rick Sked
> Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co. Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co.
> bob(at)AIRCRAFTMUTUAL.COM rick(at)AIRCRAFTMUTUAL.COM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Blank" <sblankdds(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tanks - To Alodine or Not to Alodine - That is the |
Question?
Vernon,
I see it this way.... fuel is hydrophobic (does not like water), so hard
to corrode the metal when it has hydrocarbons next to it most of the time.
Also, if the tank is kept mostly full, there is little O2 for oxidation.
The risk of any alodine reacting with some future gas product or coming off
from a poor metal prep seems to be a greater risk vs any benefit it may
provide. My 1952 C-170b has just Alclad aluminum in the tail cone and is
still fine after 55 years (based in Florida, 1.5 miles from the ocean).
How old are you???? I am 49, and figure on flying 20-30 more years... if
lucky. The plane should out last me with no extra metal protection.
--
Stephen G. Blank, DDS # 40499 Building the tail cone finally!!
184 NW Central Park Plaza
Port St. Lucie, FL 34986
772-475-5556 >>> Cell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co |
I think this is a good idea, from my experience in the insurance industry, These
are commonly referred to as 'groups' Where there is a large enough group of
similarly motivated people that essentially self insure all but the most catastrophic
losses from a shared pool of resources. Think of it as a cooperative for
buying/purchasing insurance. Why send excess profits to the insurance carriers
or agents?
The key to success of this and other groups is the behavior of the participants.
So long as everyone acts with a similar/shared interest it works. When someone
tried to 'take advantage' of the 'pool' it falls apart. Insurance rates are
often higher than they could be because of claims that are frequently brought
which are nuisance or borderline fradulant.
---- John Ackerman wrote:
>
> Al, I respectfully disagree. I have not made up my mind on this, but
> I believe the RV-10 list is the right venue for Bob and Rick to reach
> us all.
> John Ackerman
> 40458 finishing kit
>
> On Sep 26, 2007, at 5:14 PM, Albert Gardner wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I think this letter is a prime example of what should NOT be on the
> > RV-10
> > List.
> > Albert Gardner
> > Yuma, AZ
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Subject: RV10-List: Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co
> > posted by: "bob.kaufmann"
> > Bob Kaufmann Rick Sked
> > Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co. Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co.
> > bob(at)AIRCRAFTMUTUAL.COM rick(at)AIRCRAFTMUTUAL.COM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co |
I think this is a good idea, from my experience in the insurance industry, These
are commonly referred to as 'groups' Where there is a large enough group of
similarly motivated people that essentially self insure all but the most catastrophic
losses from a shared pool of resources. Think of it as a cooperative for
buying/purchasing insurance. Why send excess profits to the insurance carriers
or agents?
The key to success of this and other groups is the behavior of the participants.
So long as everyone acts with a similar/shared interest it works. When someone
tried to 'take advantage' of the 'pool' it falls apart. Insurance rates are
often higher than they could be because of claims that are frequently brought
which are nuisance or borderline fradulant.
---- John Ackerman wrote:
>
> Al, I respectfully disagree. I have not made up my mind on this, but
> I believe the RV-10 list is the right venue for Bob and Rick to reach
> us all.
> John Ackerman
> 40458 finishing kit
>
> On Sep 26, 2007, at 5:14 PM, Albert Gardner wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I think this letter is a prime example of what should NOT be on the
> > RV-10
> > List.
> > Albert Gardner
> > Yuma, AZ
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Subject: RV10-List: Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co
> > posted by: "bob.kaufmann"
> > Bob Kaufmann Rick Sked
> > Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co. Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co.
> > bob(at)AIRCRAFTMUTUAL.COM rick(at)AIRCRAFTMUTUAL.COM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | Dynon Fuel Tank Calibration |
On the subject of Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co., originally I thought only Bob
and Rick were wrong but now I see that many more could possibly being
joining that group. I mean, since I'm - by definition 'right' - anyone who
disagrees with me must be 'wrong'. :)
On another subject:
I was doing the calibration of my fuel tanks for the Dynon 180 and found an
interesting situation. The float isn't right at the root of the tank and
hits the top before the tank is full so it can't register levels across the
entire 30 gal. capacity of the tanks. It looks like the float hits the top
at about the 22 gal. mark so the Dynon says a full tank is 22 gal. and will
hold that reading until the float begins to drop. I guess that will have to
be OK and the backup is to enter the proper fuel amount into the fuel
computer and use its calculations of fuel used and remaining. Oh well, the
gages only have to be accurate at empty to be legal. A call to Dynon
confirms the situation and provided some additional information but it
appears that this is the way things work.
This isn't a new situation since the cap. gages I had on the RV-9A couldn't
read empty and full tanks either but the software in the EI fuel gage
handled it differently than the Dynon does.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Fuel Tank Calibration |
Albert,
I have the same problem with my fuel gauge and when I talked to EI about
it, they told me that this is a quite common situation. I guess it
really doesn't matter, since I want to know when I'm getting close to
empty, but the indicator goes from full to 1/2 full quickly :>} I
usually never rely on the fuel gauge anyway I usually go by how long
I've flown. But if you were to get a leak you need to know the empty
spot.
On the insurance issue I think that this could possible be of benefit to
all RV10 flyers if it can work, so I have to respectfully disagree with
you that this isn't the correct forum for it.
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
Hopefully I will get me plane back from paint tomorrow
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co |
| From: | "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> |
I would disagree, this has relevance to any RV builder as it is
insurance for us RV types, we are a large market and should be treated
as a separate entity and not have to pay for the mistakes of the Lancair
buyer/ builders.
Do you think the aftermarket door latches should be on here? Do you
think the aftermarket door guides should be on here? These particular
items were found to be lacking and an enterprising builder took up the
slack and made parts. Same can be said for the insurance side, the rates
were found lacking, so a fellow RV builder has taken up the slack and is
trying to provide a service for us. No difference, just the end product
is a service instead of produced part.
In my not so humble opinion I think this has direct relevance to us and
our overall operating costs because frankly I am getting tired of paying
close to $400 a month just in case and I know there has to be an
alternative and applaud Rick and Bob for doing the due diligence to get
us a better product.
Dan Lloyd
N289DT RV10E Flying and "paying way too much for insurance"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert
Gardner
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 8:15 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co
I think this letter is a prime example of what should NOT be on the
RV-10
List.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
-----Original Message-----
Subject: RV10-List: Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co
posted by: "bob.kaufmann"
Bob Kaufmann Rick Sked
Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co. Aircraft Mutual Benefit
Co.
bob(at)AIRCRAFTMUTUAL.COM rick(at)AIRCRAFTMUTUAL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co |
| From: | "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> |
Speaking of profits and insurance companies...think Geico, if they were
so much cheaper, how are they able to afford a Nascar Team, an Indy car
team, and an Offshore racing boat team. Each of these cost north of $20
million a year to run and that money is all coming directly from the
policy holders.
Insurance is a scam, right up until you have a legitimate claim that
they will try to deny for every reason possible until you threaten to
sue them for breach of contract.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
deemsdavis(at)cox.net
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co
I think this is a good idea, from my experience in the insurance
industry, These are commonly referred to as 'groups' Where there is a
large enough group of similarly motivated people that essentially self
insure all but the most catastrophic losses from a shared pool of
resources. Think of it as a cooperative for buying/purchasing insurance.
Why send excess profits to the insurance carriers or agents?
The key to success of this and other groups is the behavior of the
participants. So long as everyone acts with a similar/shared interest it
works. When someone tried to 'take advantage' of the 'pool' it falls
apart. Insurance rates are often higher than they could be because of
claims that are frequently brought which are nuisance or borderline
fradulant.
---- John Ackerman wrote:
>
> Al, I respectfully disagree. I have not made up my mind on this, but
> I believe the RV-10 list is the right venue for Bob and Rick to reach
> us all.
> John Ackerman
> 40458 finishing kit
>
> On Sep 26, 2007, at 5:14 PM, Albert Gardner wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I think this letter is a prime example of what should NOT be on the
> > RV-10
> > List.
> > Albert Gardner
> > Yuma, AZ
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Subject: RV10-List: Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co
> > posted by: "bob.kaufmann"
> > Bob Kaufmann Rick Sked
> > Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co. Aircraft Mutual Benefit
Co.
> > bob(at)AIRCRAFTMUTUAL.COM
rick(at)AIRCRAFTMUTUAL.COM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com> |
On page 13 of the latest RVator there is a picture of Van's own -10 on
final. The AOA indicator on the glareshield gives one reading while the AOA
indicator that is part of the EFIS shows another. These are both AFS
products so why the difference? Seperate sources possible but doesn't make
sense. Just a difference in set-up?
J Hasbrouck #40264
Decided not to sell, still pounding away.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> |
John,
I noticed the same thing, My guess is that the LED sport version is actually hooked
up, maybe Van didn't tee off into the EFIS itself for the AOA function. Just
speculation on my part
Rick S.
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 10:25:40 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: RVator
On page 13 of the latest RVator there is a picture of Van's own -10 on
final. The AOA indicator on the glareshield gives one reading while the AOA
indicator that is part of the EFIS shows another. These are both AFS
products so why the difference? Seperate sources possible but doesn't make
sense. Just a difference in set-up?
J Hasbrouck #40264
Decided not to sell, still pounding away.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KiloPapa" <kilopapa(at)antelecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass and antenna placement |
> OK, I just redesigned my antenna installation : atop a 5 foot tall
> pylon, made of spaceage transpardium mounted in the exact center/top
> point of the cabin cover, equipped with a gyro stabilized gimble that
> ensures stability of the antenna in all unusual attitudes.
Now that's funny!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nick(at)nleonard.com" <nick(at)nleonard.com> |
They are two different systems that can't be run off of the same AOA processor.
If you want them both, you have to buy the two different units (at a discount,
I'm told).
--------
Nick Leonard
RV-10 (40015) Finish
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136897#136897
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com> |
| Subject: | Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co |
Rick or Bob,
Can you provide the text on your website in a downloadable format such as a
PDF file? I cannot figure out how to copy the flash text for easy printing.
Also a few questions...
1) Does one have to have a completed airplane to buy in or obtain coverage
through Aircraft Mutual?
2) How much is required right now up front and how much of that is
refundable if things don't fly (pun intended)?
3) Is this limited to RV's?
3) What are the expected operating expenses of the company and how many
people will be on the payroll?
4) Is it only possible to obtain coverage if you have your GPS antenna
mounted in a RV-10 matronics list approved location (which from my best
recollection is at home atop your standard 6 story ham radio antenna pole
under 1/8 inch thick fiberglass housing)?
Forgive me if these were covered already as I usually have to read
everything at least 3 times before things sink in and that's open for
debate. We won't talk about this in reference to the RV-10 plans either as
3 times is just getting started!
Ben Westfall
#40579 - (I'm lying to myself to take comfort by saying I'm half way)
PDX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vernon Smith <planesmith(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co |
I would like to add a few questions.
1. Will there be a cap to the valuation of an aircraft?
2. Is the annual membership fee varied by an individual's stated hull value
?
3. How will the differences in valuation between RV models be accounted fo
r?
That is assuming this program is geared to more than just RV10s.
I don't think a RV9A owner would be willing to pay what a RV10 owner wil
l.
Thanks,
Vern Smith (#324)
> From: rv10(at)sinkrate.com> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: RE: RV10-L
ist: Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:53:02 -0700> > -
or Bob,> > Can you provide the text on your website in a downloadable forma
t such as a> PDF file? I cannot figure out how to copy the flash text for e
asy printing.> > Also a few questions...> > 1) Does one have to have a comp
leted airplane to buy in or obtain coverage> through Aircraft Mutual?> > 2)
How much is required right now up front and how much of that is> refundabl
e if things don't fly (pun intended)?> > 3) Is this limited to RV's?> > 3)
What are the expected operating expenses of the company and how many> peopl
e will be on the payroll?> > 4) Is it only possible to obtain coverage if y
ou have your GPS antenna> mounted in a RV-10 matronics list approved locati
on (which from my best> recollection is at home atop your standard 6 story
ham radio antenna pole> under 1/8 inch thick fiberglass housing)?> > Forgiv
e me if these were covered already as I usually have to read> everything at
least 3 times before things sink in and that's open for> debate. We won't
talk about this in reference to the RV-10 plans either as> 3 times is just
getting started!> > Ben Westfall> #40579 - (I'm lying to myself to take com
========================> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger-
http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&sourc
e=wlmailtagline
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-10 Builders in the UK needed |
| From: | "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> |
Hello UK -10 Builders,
I'd like to talk to you regarding the certification status from the PFA of the
RV-10 because this will make the certification in CH way easier.
Please contact me offline at RV-10(at)wellenzohn.net
Best Regards
Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (fuselage)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137023#137023
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co |
I would like to add a few questions.
1. Will there be a cap to the valuation of an aircraft? The valuation will
be what you say, with the exception of the valuation of the group. If you
say its worth $200,000 for an RV 9 then than value is way out of line with
the other 9s and we are going to value it with the group, not your value
unless you have some super secret encoder ring on board that makes the value
that much.
2. Is the annual membership fee varied by an individual's stated hull value?
The membership fee is a one time investment and annual coverage costs are
dependent on hull value.
3. How will the differences in valuation between RV models be accounted
for? Those people that are flying a RV 4 will obviously pay less than those
people that are flying RV-10s. There are a lot of different valuation bases
available for accounting for the model differences. A big first start is
what is the valuation that you now have and are paying for.
That is assuming this program is geared to more than just RV10s. We will
insure RVs only, not anything else.
I don't think a RV9A owner would be willing to pay what a RV10 owner
will. I agree and they should not pay the same but they should still
receive the same percentage savings as the RV10 owner. (and the same
percentage applied to their savings account)
Thanks,
Vern Smith (#324)
Thanks for the questions
Bob K
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vernon Smith
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 7:21 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co
I would like to add a few questions.
1. Will there be a cap to the valuation of an aircraft?
2. Is the annual membership fee varied by an individual's stated hull value?
3. How will the differences in valuation between RV models be accounted
for?
That is assuming this program is geared to more than just RV10s.
I don't think a RV9A owner would be willing to pay what a RV10 owner
will.
Thanks,
Vern Smith (#324)
_____
> From: rv10(at)sinkrate.com
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co
> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:53:02 -0700
>
>
> Rick or Bob,
>
> Can you provide the text on your website in a downloadable format such as
a
> PDF file? I cannot figure out how to copy the flash text for easy
printing.
>
> Also a few questions...
>
> 1) Does one have to have a completed airplane to buy in or obtain coverage
> through Aircraft Mutual?
>
> 2) How much is required right now up front and how much of that is
> refundable if things don't fly (pun intended)?
>
> 3) Is this limited to RV's?
>
> 3) What are the expected operating expenses of the company and how many
> people will be on the payroll?
>
> 4) Is it only possible to obtain coverage if you have your GPS antenna
> mounted in a RV-10 matronics list approved location (which from my best
> recollection is at home atop your standard 6 story ham radio antenna pole
> under 1/8 inch thick fiberglass housing)?
>
> Forgive me if these were covered already as I usually have to read
> everything at least 3 times before things sink in and that's open for
> debate. We won't talk about this in reference to the RV-10 plans either as
> 3 times is just getting started!
>
> Ben Westfall
> #40579 - (I'm lying to myself to take comfort by saying I'm half way)
>=======================
>
>
>
_____
Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger Get it now!
<http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source
wlmailtagline>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co |
And a few more questions from me:
Will the membership fee vary by pilot experience and/or rating?
Since this program is for hull damage only, how difficult is it to get
liability only insurance?
What percentage of the $3-4k annual insurance premium is for liability?
Larry Rosen
#356
Vernon Smith wrote:
> I would like to add a few questions.
>
> 1. Will there be a cap to the valuation of an aircraft?
>
> 2. Is the annual membership fee varied by an individual's stated hull
> value?
>
> 3. How will the differences in valuation between RV models be
> accounted for?
> That is assuming this program is geared to more than just RV10s.
> I don't think a RV9A owner would be willing to pay what a RV10
> owner will.
> Thanks,
>
> Vern Smith (#324)
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > From: rv10(at)sinkrate.com
> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co
> > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:53:02 -0700
> >
> >
> > Rick or Bob,
> >
> > Can you provide the text on your website in a downloadable format
> such as a
> > PDF file? I cannot figure out how to copy the flash text for easy
> printing.
> >
> > Also a few questions...
> >
> > 1) Does one have to have a completed airplane to buy in or obtain
> coverage
> > through Aircraft Mutual?
> >
> > 2) How much is required right now up front and how much of that is
> > refundable if things don't fly (pun intended)?
> >
> > 3) Is this limited to RV's?
> >
> > 3) What are the expected operating expenses of the company and how many
> > people will be on the payroll?
> >
> > 4) Is it only possible to obtain coverage if you have your GPS antenna
> > mounted in a RV-10 matronics list approved location (which from my best
> > recollection is at home atop your standard 6 story ham radio antenna
> pole
> > under 1/8 inch thick fiberglass housing)?
> >
> > Forgive me if these were covered already as I usually have to read
> > everything at least 3 times before things sink in and that's open for
> > debate. We won't talk about this in reference to the RV-10 plans
> either as
> > 3 times is just getting started!
> >
> > Ben Westfall
> > #40579 - (I'm lying to myself to take comfort by saying I'm half way)
> >=======================
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger Get it now!
> <http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wlmailtagline>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co |
No the membership fee will not vary, but we are planning on covering hull,
liability and builders ins. The cost for individual coverage will vary
depending on experience and ratings.
Bob K
If you are going to LOE look me up, and I'll answer everything, or give me a
call at 702 767-3587 which is my cell.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co
And a few more questions from me:
Will the membership fee vary by pilot experience and/or rating?
Since this program is for hull damage only, how difficult is it to get
liability only insurance?
What percentage of the $3-4k annual insurance premium is for liability?
Larry Rosen
#356
Vernon Smith wrote:
> I would like to add a few questions.
>
> 1. Will there be a cap to the valuation of an aircraft?
>
> 2. Is the annual membership fee varied by an individual's stated hull
> value?
>
> 3. How will the differences in valuation between RV models be
> accounted for?
> That is assuming this program is geared to more than just RV10s.
> I don't think a RV9A owner would be willing to pay what a RV10
> owner will.
> Thanks,
>
> Vern Smith (#324)
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > From: rv10(at)sinkrate.com
> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aircraft Mutual Benefit Co
> > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:53:02 -0700
> >
> >
> > Rick or Bob,
> >
> > Can you provide the text on your website in a downloadable format
> such as a
> > PDF file? I cannot figure out how to copy the flash text for easy
> printing.
> >
> > Also a few questions...
> >
> > 1) Does one have to have a completed airplane to buy in or obtain
> coverage
> > through Aircraft Mutual?
> >
> > 2) How much is required right now up front and how much of that is
> > refundable if things don't fly (pun intended)?
> >
> > 3) Is this limited to RV's?
> >
> > 3) What are the expected operating expenses of the company and how many
> > people will be on the payroll?
> >
> > 4) Is it only possible to obtain coverage if you have your GPS antenna
> > mounted in a RV-10 matronics list approved location (which from my best
> > recollection is at home atop your standard 6 story ham radio antenna
> pole
> > under 1/8 inch thick fiberglass housing)?
> >
> > Forgive me if these were covered already as I usually have to read
> > everything at least 3 times before things sink in and that's open for
> > debate. We won't talk about this in reference to the RV-10 plans
> either as
> > 3 times is just getting started!
> >
> > Ben Westfall
> > #40579 - (I'm lying to myself to take comfort by saying I'm half way)
> >=======================
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger Get it now!
>
<http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source
wlmailtagline>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net> |
| Subject: | interior sun screens |
Have any of you made or found interior sun scrrens for the 10 for when
it's setting out on the ramp? I'm planning on flying over to LOE and
just got to thinking that I don't have any of these yet.
Wayne Edgerton N602Wt
Coming out of paint shop on Manday I've attached a couple of previw
pictures fo the progress thus far.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vernon Smith <planesmith(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | interior sun screens |
Wow, the plane looks great!!!Are you thinking of something that goes inside
the windows or a canopy cover? Cleveland Tool does have a light weight cov
er and Van's also sells one.
Kennon makes a product called Super Sun Shields. Its kind of a aluminized c
over that sits inside the window to block the sun. Aircraft Spruce carries
it. I can't commit on it as I have only used canopy covers.
Vern Smith (#324)
From: wayne.e(at)grandecom.netTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RV10-List: i
nterior sun screensDate: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:48:03 -0500
Have any of you made or found interior sun scrrens for the 10 for when it's
setting out on the ramp? I'm planning on flying over to LOE and just got t
o thinking that I don't have any of these yet.
Wayne Edgerton N602Wt
Coming out of paint shop on Manday I've attached a couple of previw picture
s fo the progress thus far.
_________________________________________________________________
Discover the new Windows Vista
E
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net> |
| Subject: | Nose Fork Break Out Force |
I got around to checking my nose fork break out force tonight after Joe Zac
informed me that the shake in my nose gear was scary when observing my la
nding last weekend from the ground. I had noticed the speed band where I f
elt the shake had increased but never got around to checking it. I measure
d the break out force at 2 lbs vice 24lbs per Van's instructions. It's app
arent the break out force decreased substantially after 93 hours. Tighteni
ng the nut two more flats as Tim Olson calls it brought it back up to 22lbs
I wiggled the nose gear a few times and measured again. It went down to
15lbs. Tightened one more flat brought it up to 27lbs. I decided to leav
e it there.
Make sure you check your break out force perhaps every 20 hours or so. My c
upped washers were spinning freely before I started to work on it tonight.
Anh
N591VU Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Thyssen <jump2(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: interior sun screens |
Wayne,
How has the intake on the vertical working? Tony told me about using two naca
intakes and have not heard anyone speak one way or the other?
Great paint job? Been looking at that very same style since OSH.
LOE not sure yet due to house huntng.
Pat Thyssen
Wayne Edgerton wrote:
Have any of you made or found interior sun scrrens for the 10 for when
it's setting out on the ramp? I'm planning on flying over to LOE and just got
to thinking that I don't have any of these yet.
Wayne Edgerton N602Wt
Coming out of paint shop on Manday I've attached a couple of previw pictures
fo the progress thus far.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com> |
| Subject: | interior sun screens |
I was wondering this too and had asked Wayne about this this morning.
He
installed his before the NACA option came up but he is getting good
airflow
through the scoop.
Is anyone here flying with the NACA vents for the Accuracy overhead
console
instead of the emp fairing scoop?
If so, are you happy with the available airflow both in flight and
during
taxi?
Best Regards,
Patrick #40715
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick
Thyssen
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 5:40 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: interior sun screens
Wayne,
How has the intake on the vertical working? Tony told me about using
two
naca intakes and have not heard anyone speak one way or the other?
Great paint job? Been looking at that very same style since OSH.
LOE not sure yet due to house huntng.
Pat Thyssen
Wayne Edgerton wrote:
Have any of you made or found interior sun scrrens for the 10 for when
it's
setting out on the ramp? I'm planning on flying over to LOE and just got
to
thinking that I don't have any of these yet.
Wayne Edgerton N602Wt
Coming out of paint shop on Manday I've attached a couple of previw
pictures
fo the progress thus far.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Showplanes Composite Top |
Have you guys seen this from Showplanes? =0ALooks like they smoothed out th
e transition between the composite top and aluminum. =0Awww.showplanes.com
=0A=0AScott Schmidt=0Ascottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Showplanes Composite Top |
For some details click "current projects" and scroll towards the bottom
of the page.
Larry Rosen
Scott Schmidt wrote:
> Have you guys seen this from Showplanes?
> Looks like they smoothed out the transition between the composite top
> and aluminum.
> www.showplanes.com <http://www.showplanes.com>
>
> Scott Schmidt
> scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <toaster73(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Showplanes Composite Top |
Just what this plane needs...more composite.
-Chris Lucas
#40072
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schmidt
To: RV-10 List
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 9:05 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Showplanes Composite Top
Have you guys seen this from Showplanes?
Looks like they smoothed out the transition between the composite top
and aluminum.
www.showplanes.com
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Elevator Balance |
I am confused about the balance of the elevator. The plans say a max of
37.5 in/lbs down. Without having the elevator connected to the controls
and
trim tabs not connected I measured the balance. It is about 15 in/lbs
down. So my questions are:
What is the minimum?
When should it be measured? I am assuming after all rigging is
complete.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Rene'
40322
N423CF
Final assembley
801-721-6080
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Showplanes Composite Top |
When I visited them last month, Brian has a lot of neat ideas coming, so be
prepared.
Bob K
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
toaster73(at)embarqmail.com
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Showplanes Composite Top
Just what this plane needs...more composite.
-Chris Lucas
#40072
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schmidt <mailto:scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 9:05 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Showplanes Composite Top
Have you guys seen this from Showplanes?
Looks like they smoothed out the transition between the composite top and
aluminum.
www.showplanes.com
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Builders in the UK needed |
| From: | "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> |
Ok I guess I know why there are no UK builders here, it looks like they have their
own RV Forum.
http://www.rvforum.co.uk/YaBB.pl
Michael
www.wellenzohn.net
--------
RV-10 builder (fuselage)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137238#137238
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Elevator Balance |
I sent a note to Van's awhile back on elevator balance. When building my
RV-8A the instructions told you to trim the counterbalance weights until the
elevators were balance, as in statically balances so that the elevators stay
horizontal with no force acting on them. The weights in the RV-8A are much
larger than the RV-10.
Building the RV-10 it is obvious that to achieve this same balance requires
much larger counterbalance weights than that supplied with the kit. Van's
reply to my question about this was "the elevators will hang trailing edge
down" and that there is not need to add the weight to make them statically
balanced as in the RV-8A.
Recommend just building as per plan.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (350 hrs)
RV-10 (wings)
Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 11:55 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Elevator Balance
I am confused about the balance of the elevator. The plans say a max of
37.5 in/lbs down. Without having the elevator connected to the controls and
trim tabs not connected I measured the balance. It is about 15 in/lbs
down. So my questions are:
What is the minimum?
When should it be measured? I am assuming after all rigging is complete.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Rene'
40322
N423CF
Final assembley
801-721-6080
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | interior sun screens |
There is someone flying with the dual NACA vents, he's based out of Watsonville
CA and Bill Derouchey know home, he put me incontact with him and he reported
plenty of air even diring taxi with the NACA vents, sorry I don't remember his
name and I'm away from home for a few days.
Deems
---- Patrick ONeill wrote:
> I was wondering this too and had asked Wayne about this this morning. He
> installed his before the NACA option came up but he is getting good airflow
> through the scoop.
>
> Is anyone here flying with the NACA vents for the Accuracy overhead console
> instead of the emp fairing scoop?
>
> If so, are you happy with the available airflow both in flight and during
> taxi?
>
> Best Regards,
> Patrick #40715
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Thyssen
> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 5:40 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: interior sun screens
>
>
> Wayne,
> How has the intake on the vertical working? Tony told me about using two
> naca intakes and have not heard anyone speak one way or the other?
> Great paint job? Been looking at that very same style since OSH.
> LOE not sure yet due to house huntng.
> Pat Thyssen
>
>
> Wayne Edgerton wrote:
>
> Have any of you made or found interior sun scrrens for the 10 for when it's
> setting out on the ramp? I'm planning on flying over to LOE and just got to
> thinking that I don't have any of these yet.
>
> Wayne Edgerton N602Wt
>
> Coming out of paint shop on Manday I've attached a couple of previw pictures
> fo the progress thus far.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | interior sun screens |
| From: | "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com> |
I also spoke with the Watsonville owner before making my decision to go with the
NACA vents. He informed me that there was plenty of air flow thru the overhead
even during taxi and that if he had it to do over again he would blank out
the rear PAX side vents because the air flow is so good with the NACA vents. I
chose to leave them in to provide an assortment of places to ventilate.
My question to him was; do I need 2 NACA vents? There was no definitive answer
to that question and so I took that as a sign to put two in because I know I didnt
want to retrofit the second one in at a later date.
Patrick, the one probably obvious benefit to the NACA vents even if they dont provide
as much airflow to the console (I suspect they provide a lot more) is their
simplicity of installation and no need to build in a water drain system as
the air flow and tubing all work their way up. The rear scoop will collect water
and must be accounted for.
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of deemsdavis(at)cox.net
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 5:53 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: interior sun screens
There is someone flying with the dual NACA vents, he's based out of Watsonville
CA and Bill Derouchey know home, he put me incontact with him and he reported
plenty of air even diring taxi with the NACA vents, sorry I don't remember his
name and I'm away from home for a few days.
Deems
---- Patrick ONeill wrote:
> I was wondering this too and had asked Wayne about this this morning. He
> installed his before the NACA option came up but he is getting good airflow
> through the scoop.
>
> Is anyone here flying with the NACA vents for the Accuracy overhead console
> instead of the emp fairing scoop?
>
> If so, are you happy with the available airflow both in flight and during
> taxi?
>
> Best Regards,
> Patrick #40715
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Thyssen
> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 5:40 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: interior sun screens
>
>
> Wayne,
> How has the intake on the vertical working? Tony told me about using two
> naca intakes and have not heard anyone speak one way or the other?
> Great paint job? Been looking at that very same style since OSH.
> LOE not sure yet due to house huntng.
> Pat Thyssen
>
>
> Wayne Edgerton wrote:
>
> Have any of you made or found interior sun scrrens for the 10 for when it's
> setting out on the ramp? I'm planning on flying over to LOE and just got to
> thinking that I don't have any of these yet.
>
> Wayne Edgerton N602Wt
>
> Coming out of paint shop on Manday I've attached a couple of previw pictures
> fo the progress thus far.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | interior sun screens |
I put in NACA scoops on each side for the overhead console. Works good on
taxi but not flying yet. Plenty air.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
-----Original Message-----
There is someone flying with the dual NACA vents, he's based out of
Watsonville CA and Bill Derouchey know home, he put me incontact with him
and he reported plenty of air even diring taxi with the NACA vents, sorry I
don't remember his name and I'm away from home for a few days.
Deems
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: interior sun screens |
| From: | "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com> |
I am seriously considering going this route but before this thread started I had
a question that has not been addressed yet and I believe it can only be addressed
by someone flying.
My question is: Is there any impact with the static ports? The location of the
NACA scoops appear to be in line with the static ports. Do the scoops induce
any disturbance that could interfere with the static ports?
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Fuselage SB
(N410GB reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137397#137397
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
They do not have the same calibration in both units.
Rob Hickman
N401RH RV-4 N402RH RV-10
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rv10builder" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | soundproofing options |
I was reviewing some soundproofing options and saw this company. Anyone
know anything about their effectiveness in an aircraft?
http://www.dynamat.com/products_automotive_dynamat_xtreme.html
Thanks!
Pascal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: soundproofing options |
Pascal,
I used to be associated with a car club here in Phoenix and this
material is HEAVY! Seriously it is. To do an area of a -10 your just
adding dead weight you do not want. I don't believe it to be a suitable
option for aviation.
Carlos in AZ
rv10builder wrote:
> I was reviewing some soundproofing options and saw this company.
> Anyone know anything about their effectiveness in an aircraft?
> http://www.dynamat.com/products_automotive_dynamat_xtreme.html
>
> Thanks!
>
> Pascal
>
> *
>
>
> *
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
--
Carlos Hernandez <carlosh@sec-engr.com>
Structural Engineers, LLC
2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3
Chandler, AZ 85224
Phone: 480.968.8600
Fax: 480.968.8608
www.sec-engr.com
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged.
This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or
organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or
an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any review, dissemination or copyingof this email and
its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is
prohibited. If you havereceived this email in error, please
immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email
from your system.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | effectus(at)rogers.com |
| Subject: | Re: interior sun screens |
I have been considering putting them lower towards the bottom of the aircra
ft to avoid the static ports.=0A=0ADave Hertner=0A10164 Finishing Wings=0A
=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: orchidman <gary(at)wingscc.com>=0ATo: r
v10-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, October 1, 2007 10:04:21 AM=0ASubjec
t: RV10-List: Re: interior sun screens=0A=0A--> RV10-List message posted by
: "orchidman" =0A=0AI am seriously considering going this
route but before this thread started I had a question that has not been ad
dressed yet and I believe it can only be addressed by someone flying.=0A=0A
My question is: Is there any impact with the static ports? The location o
f the NACA scoops appear to be in line with the static ports. Do the scoop
s induce any disturbance that could interfere with the static ports?=0A=0A-
-------=0AGary Blankenbiller=0ARV10 - # 40674=0AFuselage SB=0A(N410GB reser
ved)=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronic
===================0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Soverit" <georgesoverit(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Op Tech panel at Oshkosh |
Hello Everybody,
There was a beautiful Op Tech panel at Osh at the Accuracy Avionics stand.
Can anybody tell me who owned that beauty, or where I might be able to see
some photos?
Thank you,
George Soverit (cabin doors)
9:46 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: interior sun screens |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
I have asked that question directly to Tony and got the response that
there was no issue. I also talked directly to the person that did the
flight testing for the first plane with the dual NACA approach and he
said that there was no noticeable issue. With that said, I am still
pondering whether to cut the holes or just go with the scoop. If I do
install NACA vents they will not be in line with the static ports.
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 7:04 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: interior sun screens
I am seriously considering going this route but before this thread
started I had a question that has not been addressed yet and I believe
it can only be addressed by someone flying.
My question is: Is there any impact with the static ports? The
location of the NACA scoops appear to be in line with the static ports.
Do the scoops induce any disturbance that could interfere with the
static ports?
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Fuselage SB
(N410GB reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137397#137397
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh |
Here is one from Deem's library
http://deemsrv10.com/album/OSHKOSH%202007/Misc/slides/DSC_0048.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Soverit" <georgesoverit(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, October 1, 2007 1:47:46 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
Hello Everybody,
There was a beautiful Op Tech panel at Osh at the Accuracy Avionics stand.
Can anybody tell me who owned that beauty, or where I might be able to see
some photos?
Thank you,
George Soverit (cabin doors)
9:46 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Soverit" <georgesoverit(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Op Tech panel at Oshkosh |
Thanks Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked
Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2007 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
Here is one from Deem's library
http://deemsrv10.com/album/OSHKOSH%202007/Misc/slides/DSC_0048.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Soverit" <georgesoverit(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, October 1, 2007 1:47:46 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
Hello Everybody,
There was a beautiful Op Tech panel at Osh at the Accuracy Avionics stand.
Can anybody tell me who owned that beauty, or where I might be able to see
some photos?
Thank you,
George Soverit (cabin doors)
9:46 PM
9:46 PM
9:46 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Op Tech panel at Oshkosh |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
George, I agree with your assessment of a beautiful panel.
My database shows the panel was built for Dwayne Herring of Midland,
Texas, kit #40506. Hopefully he is a lurker on this list and will
respond direct to you on the decisions which guided his selection.
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of George
Soverit
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 2:58 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
Thanks Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked
Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2007 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
Here is one from Deem's library
http://deemsrv10.com/album/OSHKOSH%202007/Misc/slides/DSC_0048.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Soverit" <georgesoverit(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, October 1, 2007 1:47:46 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
Hello Everybody,
There was a beautiful Op Tech panel at Osh at the Accuracy Avionics
stand.
Can anybody tell me who owned that beauty, or where I might be able to
see
some photos?
Thank you,
George Soverit (cabin doors)
9:46 PM
9:46 PM
9:46 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | RV10 Front wheel Shimmy |
Hey Guys,
Just wanted to post findings on our 100 hour inspection this weekend.
I know there has been some issues on the front wheel bushings.........w
e did the fix per Van's new instructions at 25 hours. Shorten shaft to
right length....torque to specs..............at 100 hours the bushings h
ave not moved! Also, tire wear looks very good.......should go to 200 h
ours before needing to rotate. I contribute this low wear to longer fli
ghts........less landings.........and PERFECT landings........LOL. Tir
es needed a few psi. Brake wear looks even on both tires and is still a
bout 70%. I did find some of the bottom bolts on the fuel pump were need
ing a little tightening. The air filter was very clean yet except for a
few inches around the front. Oil/filter continues to look clean with no
shavings. Added a little wire wrap to left side plug wires to keep the
m from slightly rubbing the oil line.
All that done and we are ready for the next 100 hours..........leaving f
or LOE on Friday. What a great plane!
Dean 805HL
_____________________________________________________________
Boost your productivity with new office software. Click now!
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net> |
| Subject: | Plane completion pictures |
Hello fellow builders,
Today was a big milestone day for me in my plane building quest that I
have been on for the last 2 1/2 years. I picked up my plane from the
paint shop. I'm finally getting the feeling that I may be getting close
to be done with the building process and can now move on to my favorite
part, which is the flying. It's been a long and at times frustrating
process but I'm really happy with the end results so that makes it all
worth while.
We are flying to Land of Enchantment on Friday for the first RV flyin
with the plane. I've attached some pictures that were taken today
outside of the Glo Customs hangar by Grady when I was picking up the
plane. Grady and crew did a great job for me.
My wifes question for me today was, "Ok what are you going to come up
with next?" hummm :>}
Wayne Edgerton N602WT build # 40336
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joseph Rhodes" <joe(at)rvbuildernet.com> |
| Subject: | FW: To Prim or not to Prim |
_____
From: Joseph Rhodes [mailto:joe(at)rvbuildernet.com]
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:49 PM
Subject: To Prim or not to Prim
New builder 40744 Joseph Rhodes
To Prim or not to Prim and with what
I live in Florida and with the humidity, salt air and for resale value I
would like to use a good primer
What are you builders using?
Any help would be appreciated
Thanks Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: To Prim or not to Prim |
oy vay!
Look at the archives and you'll see 100's of opinions on this.
Use anything you want from a DTM wash primer from SW to the Van's QB
primer of SW P60 to 2 part stuff from Spruce.
Jesse can tell you what he's using.
My decision in California was prime for the extra measure (and scratches
I seemed to create moving pieces around) and I used the easiest thing I
could find. Sherwin Williams DTM wash primer. It works, I believe, well
enough for me.
I believe ERAU has Cessnas in Daytona Beach with no primer- I doubt
they're worried about it..
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Rhodes
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 3:57 PM
Subject: RV10-List: FW: To Prim or not to Prim
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Joseph Rhodes [mailto:joe(at)rvbuildernet.com]
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:49 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: To Prim or not to Prim
New builder 40744 Joseph Rhodes
To Prim or not to Prim and with what
I live in Florida and with the humidity, salt air and for resale value
I would like to use a good primer
What are you builders using?
Any help would be appreciated
Thanks Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plane completion pictures |
She's a beaut Wayne!! And the RV looks darn good too.....congrats on gettin
g to the 100 percent mark.
Rick Sked
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net>
Sent: Monday, October 1, 2007 8:01:50 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Plane completion pictures
Hello fellow builders,
Today was a big milestone day for me in my plane building quest that I have
been on for the last 2 1/2 years. I picked up my plane from the paint shop
. I'm finally getting the feeling that I may be getting close to be done wi
th the building process and can now move on to my favorite part, which is
=C2-the flying. It's been a long and at times frustrating process but I'm
really happy with the end results so that makes it all worth while.
We=C2-are flying to Land of Enchantment=C2-on Friday=C2-for the first
RV flyin with the plane.=C2-I 've attached some pictures that were taken
today outside of the Glo Customs hangar by Grady when I was picking up the
plane. Grady and crew did a great job for me.
My wifes=C2-question for me today was, "Ok what are you going to come up
with next?"=C2-=C2- hummm=C2-=C2-:>}
Wayne Edgerton N602WT=C2- build # 40336
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Plane completion pictures |
Nice job Wayne!
Congratulations on a beautiful plane. Really like that Aerocomposite
prop.
A real Beauty indeed. You must be proud!
P
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Edgerton
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:01 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Plane completion pictures
Hello fellow builders,
Today was a big milestone day for me in my plane building quest that I
have been on for the last 2 1/2 years. I picked up my plane from the
paint shop. I'm finally getting the feeling that I may be getting close
to be done with the building process and can now move on to my favorite
part, which is the flying. It's been a long and at times frustrating
process but I'm really happy with the end results so that makes it all
worth while.
We are flying to Land of Enchantment on Friday for the first RV flyin
with the plane. I've attached some pictures that were taken today
outside of the Glo Customs hangar by Grady when I was picking up the
plane. Grady and crew did a great job for me.
My wifes question for me today was, "Ok what are you going to come up
with next?" hummm :>}
Wayne Edgerton N602WT build # 40336
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: To Prim or not to Prim |
Oh my Gosh Joe!!!
You do a lot of fishing? Because you just opened the biggest can 'o' worms
in the metal plane building business.
I used SW 988 SE primer after scuffing and alumabrighting.... Step back fro
m your monitor, it's gonna get ugly!!
Go to www.vansairforce.net =C2-join the forums, search for Primer=C2-an
d read for a few weeks if you really want some entertainment.
Rick S.
40185
Finishing the finishing of the finishing
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Rhodes" <joe(at)rvbuildernet.com>
Sent: Monday, October 1, 2007 3:57:17 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: FW: To Prim or not to Prim
From: Joseph Rhodes [mailto:joe(at)rvbuildernet.com]
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:49 PM
Subject: To Prim or not to Prim
New builder 40744 Joseph Rhodes
To Prim or not to Prim and with what=C2-
I live in Florida and with the humidity, salt air and for resale value I wo
uld like to use a good primer
What are you builders using? =C2-=C2-
Any help would be appreciated
==============
====
=======================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LES KEARNEY <Kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: To Prim or not to Prim |
Joe
The decision to prime (or not) as well as the system used is an intensely personal
one. Ask any 10 builders what they are using and you will likely get a dozen
different answers.
About a year ago when I started building I spoke to a few people and this is what
I came up with:
Many primers are very toxic. Just looking at the cotents of a typical rattle can
primer almost made me grow a third arm
I am building in an attached garage - I didn't want to polliute the environment
in my house
I am building in a cold environment so my garage is heated with a gas heater. This
means I dn't want to use a systen that gives of combustabl fumes
Because I am in a confined space (closed garage in winter) I want a primer that
doesn't require *huge* ventilation
What I ended up using was Sherwin Williams DTM (Direct to Metal) Wash Pimer (product
code B71 Y 1). This is a water based product and cleans up easily. I apply
it using a standard paint sprayer.
It is not a two part epoxy system so there is no mixing involved.
Cost in Canada is about $55 / gal. used about two gallons on the tail section.
Surface prep was simple - I scuffed the surfaces with a sctch brite pad, cleaned
ith lacquer thinner and then sprayed on.
PPE was simple - I used a half mask just to protect aganst lacquer thinner fumes
and the paint mist.
This product is designed for aluminium and seemed about the best compromise between
not priming and needing a paint booth to prime.
Keep in mind that some people don't prime at all (my '66 Cherokee was never primed
for that matter).
Anyway, this is what I do. Is it the *best* way to go? Who knows!
Have fun building!
Les Kearney
#40643
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Rhodes <joe(at)rvbuildernet.com>
Date: Monday, October 1, 2007 9:20 pm
Subject: RV10-List: FW: To Prim or not to Prim
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Joseph Rhodes [mailto:joe(at)rvbuildernet.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:49 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: To Prim or not to Prim
>
>
>
> New builder 40744 Joseph Rhodes
>
>
>
> To Prim or not to Prim and with what
>
> I live in Florida and with the humidity, salt air and for resale
> value I
> would like to use a good primer
>
> What are you builders using?
>
> Any help would be appreciated
>
>
>
> Thanks Joe
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LES KEARNEY <Kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Firewall Vent Boxes |
Hi
A couple of weeks ago there was an interesting thread about the various flavours
of Pro-Seal and what should be used to seal gaps in the firewall. The gist of
the discussion was that the actual compound used to seal the gaps should have
the apropriate fire (temperature) rating.
As I complete the fuselage, I keep looking at the aluminium vent boxes that mount on the engine side of the firewall. I have also just come across this link to a company that sells steel vent boxes for RV10s and other Van's a/c. Th link is http://www.epm-avcorp.com/ssdiv.html.
Are there any opinions out there as to whether or not this is a useful upgrade
to the Vans kit. It seems to me that if the firewall is steel and we are going
to take great care to fireproof the gaps, shouldn't we do the same with the vent
boxes (which represent the largest penetration of the firewall)? This seems
logical to me, but I would be interested in other points of view.
Cheers
Les Kearney
#40643
----- Original Message -----
From: Pascal <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Date: Monday, October 1, 2007 10:05 pm
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: To Prim or not to Prim
> oy vay!
> Look at the archives and you'll see 100's of opinions on this.
> Use anything you want from a DTM wash primer from SW to the
> Van's QB primer of SW P60 to 2 part stuff from Spruce.
> Jesse can tell you what he's using.
> My decision in California was prime for the extra measure (and
> scratches I seemed to create moving pieces around) and I used
> the easiest thing I could find. Sherwin Williams DTM wash
> primer. It works, I believe, well enough for me.
> I believe ERAU has Cessnas in Daytona Beach with no primer- I
> doubt they're worried about it..
> Pascal
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joseph Rhodes
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 3:57 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: FW: To Prim or not to Prim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
>
> From: Joseph Rhodes [mailto:joe(at)rvbuildernet.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:49 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: To Prim or not to Prim
>
>
>
> New builder 40744 Joseph Rhodes
>
>
>
> To Prim or not to Prim and with what
>
> I live in Florida and with the humidity, salt air and for
> resale value I would like to use a good primer
>
> What are you builders using?
>
> Any help would be appreciated
>
>
>
> Thanks Joe
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV_10" <john_rv10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Firewall Vent Boxes |
Les,
We felt the same and replaced our Al vent boxes with stainless steel.
John Cleary
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LES KEARNEY
Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2007 3:31 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Firewall Vent Boxes
Hi
A couple of weeks ago there was an interesting thread about the various
flavours of Pro-Seal and what should be used to seal gaps in the firewall.
The gist of the discussion was that the actual compound used to seal the
gaps should have the apropriate fire (temperature) rating.
As I complete the fuselage, I keep looking at the aluminium vent boxes that
mount on the engine side of the firewall. I have also just come across this
link to a company that sells steel vent boxes for RV10s and other Van's a/c.
Th link is HYPERLINK
"http://www.epm-avcorp.com/ssdiv.html"http://www.epm-avcorp.com/ssdiv.html.
Are there any opinions out there as to whether or not this is a useful
upgrade to the Vans kit. It seems to me that if the firewall is steel and we
are going to take great care to fireproof the gaps, shouldn't we do the same
with the vent boxes (which represent the largest penetration of the
firewall)? This seems logical to me, but I would be interested in other
points of view.
Cheers
Les Kearney
#40643
----- Original Message -----
From: Pascal <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Date: Monday, October 1, 2007 10:05 pm
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: To Prim or not to Prim
> oy vay!
> Look at the archives and you'll see 100's of opinions on this.
> Use anything you want from a DTM wash primer from SW to the
> Van's QB primer of SW P60 to 2 part stuff from Spruce.
> Jesse can tell you what he's using.
> My decision in California was prime for the extra measure (and
> scratches I seemed to create moving pieces around) and I used
> the easiest thing I could find. Sherwin Williams DTM wash
> primer. It works, I believe, well enough for me.
> I believe ERAU has Cessnas in Daytona Beach with no primer- I
> doubt they're worried about it..
> Pascal
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joseph Rhodes
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 3:57 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: FW: To Prim or not to Prim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
>
> From: Joseph Rhodes [mailto:joe(at)rvbuildernet.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:49 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: To Prim or not to Prim
>
>
>
> New builder 40744 Joseph Rhodes
>
>
>
> To Prim or not to Prim and with what
>
> I live in Florida and with the humidity, salt air and for
> resale value I would like to use a good primer
>
> What are you builders using?
>
> Any help would be appreciated
>
>
>
> Thanks Joe
>
>
>
>
>
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"http://www.matronics.com/Navig
ator?RV10-List
6:59 PM
6:59 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Soverit" <georgesoverit(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Op Tech panel at Oshkosh |
Thanks John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2007 11:58 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
George, I agree with your assessment of a beautiful panel.
My database shows the panel was built for Dwayne Herring of Midland,
Texas, kit #40506. Hopefully he is a lurker on this list and will
respond direct to you on the decisions which guided his selection.
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of George
Soverit
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 2:58 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
Thanks Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked
Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2007 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
Here is one from Deem's library
http://deemsrv10.com/album/OSHKOSH%202007/Misc/slides/DSC_0048.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Soverit" <georgesoverit(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, October 1, 2007 1:47:46 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
Hello Everybody,
There was a beautiful Op Tech panel at Osh at the Accuracy Avionics
stand.
Can anybody tell me who owned that beauty, or where I might be able to
see
some photos?
Thank you,
George Soverit (cabin doors)
9:46 PM
9:46 PM
9:46 PM
6:59 PM
6:59 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Plane completion pictures |
She's beautiful, look forward to seeing her on the Nellis ramp in Nov. So
that's what all the parts together look like.
Bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 7:02 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Plane completion pictures
Hello fellow builders,
Today was a big milestone day for me in my plane building quest that I have
been on for the last 2 1/2 years. I picked up my plane from the paint shop.
I'm finally getting the feeling that I may be getting close to be done with
the building process and can now move on to my favorite part, which is the
flying. It's been a long and at times frustrating process but I'm really
happy with the end results so that makes it all worth while.
We are flying to Land of Enchantment on Friday for the first RV flyin with
the plane. I've attached some pictures that were taken today outside of the
Glo Customs hangar by Grady when I was picking up the plane. Grady and crew
did a great job for me.
My wifes question for me today was, "Ok what are you going to come up with
next?" hummm :>}
Wayne Edgerton N602WT build # 40336
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kent Ogden" <OgdenK(at)upstate.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: To Prim or not to Prim |
Hi Joe,
I too am a new builder, I went with the Akzo Nobel epoxy primer that can be
purchase from Aircraft Spruce.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/akzoprimer.php
I decided on this because it is specifically stated to be fluid and
corrosive resistant, which not all primers are as I understand. Many
primers are intended to have a topcoat, and are primarily designed to
provide good adhesion for the topcoat and not necessarily provide the
ultimate in protection themselves.
Once I sprayed this stuff on, I was very convinced that it will provide
excellent protection as it is very hard and impermeable when cured. I also
emailed their technical support to as whether alodining is necessary. They
dithered a little and wouldn't come out and say that you don't need to
alodine, just that the adhesion would be somewhat better if you did. I
alodined the vertical stabilizer, it was a big pain in the neck for me since
I don't have water in my shop.
I decided I won't alodine any more (except maybe some small parts since I
do have some of the chemicals). I just make sure I scuff VERY well with
scotchbrite and clean the surface thoroughly with MEK before priming. Last
week I bought the Taylor pneumatic DA (dual action) sander from Cleaveland
tools (http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ADAS11) as
well as the scotchbrite pad holder
(http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=3MD945) and a bunch
of the pads to cut for the sander
(http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=3MP47). Nothing
like the right tool to make a job easy, but this doesn't work very well for
small parts or 'inside' ribs etc. I see that Taylor makes a 2" version of
this sander (costs twice as much as the big one!) so I may go this route for
small parts, or just continue to scuff them by hand.
When everything is well prepped, even without alodining the Akzo primer
grips like a mad monkey. I don't think I will regret going this route, and
I hope to be flying this plane for a very long time.
Oh yeah, I bought a cheap HVLP sprayer (Chicago Electric?) from Harbor
Freight. I was very unhappy with it at first, but after adjusting and
tweaking the air output it does a reasonable job. Cleanup of the Akzo is
easy, put some MEK in the cup and spray it out a few times. Definitely want
to do that outside! I actually ignite the stuff with a torch as it comes
out of the gun, it makes an impressive flame (who says building is the only
fun we can have?). Standard disclaimers apply if you do this yourself!
Kent Ogden
#40710
>>> "Joseph Rhodes" 10/01/07 6:57 PM >>>
From: Joseph Rhodes [mailto:joe(at)rvbuildernet.com]
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:49 PM
Subject: To Prim or not to Prim
New builder 40744 Joseph Rhodes To Prim or not to Prim and with what I
live in Florida and with the humidity, salt air and for resale value I would
like to use a good primerWhat are you builders using? Any help would be
appreciated Thanks Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Vent Boxes |
I used the stainless boxes, If only for peace of mind. Kitplanes ran an art
icle about them a few months back and after seeing how the aluminum ones me
lted away under high heat, read torch here, I figured the money was well sp
ent. My philosophy has always been if it can made=C2-safer then be safer.
Might come with my job though. My daily role is to eliminate hazards or co
ntrol them. I figure I eliminated the fire penetrating the firewall at the
heat boxes. My imagination had worked up this scenario where a major engine
fire occured and flames were blowing through the firewall into the cockpit
and all I kept thinking was if I had only used the stainless boxes. Silly
I'm sure but I never want to second guess myself if possible.
Rick S.
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "LES KEARNEY" <Kearney(at)shaw.ca>
Sent: Monday, October 1, 2007 10:31:08 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Firewall Vent Boxes
Hi
A couple of weeks ago there was an interesting thread about the various fla
vours of Pro-Seal and what should be used to seal gaps in the firewall. The
gist of the discussion was that the actual compound used to seal the gaps
should have the apropriate fire (temperature) rating.
As I complete the fuselage, I keep looking at the aluminium vent boxes that
mount on the engine side of the firewall. I have also just come across thi
s link to a company that sells steel vent boxes for RV10s and other Van's a
/c. Th link is http://www.epm-avcorp.com/ssdiv.html .
Are there any opinions out there as to whether or not this is a useful upgr
ade to the Vans kit. It seems to me that if the firewall is steel and we ar
e going to take great care to fireproof the gaps, shouldn't we do the same
with the vent boxes (which represent the largest penetration of the firewal
l)? This seems logical to me, but I would be interested in other points of
view.
Cheers
Les Kearney
#40643
----- Original Message -----
From: Pascal <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Date: Monday, October 1, 2007 10:05 pm
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: To Prim or not to Prim
> oy vay!
> Look at the archives and you'll see 100's of opinions on this.
> Use anything you want from a DTM wash primer from SW to the
> Van's QB primer of SW P60 to 2 part stuff from Spruce.
> Jesse can tell you what he's using.
> My decision in California was prime for the extra measure (and
> scratches I seemed to create moving pieces around) and I used
> the easiest thing I could find. Sherwin Williams DTM wash
> primer. It works, I believe, well enough for me.
> I believe ERAU has Cessnas in Daytona Beach with no primer- I
> doubt they're worried about it..
> Pascal
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> =C2- From: Joseph Rhodes
> =C2- To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> =C2- Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 3:57 PM
> =C2- Subject: RV10-List: FW: To Prim or not to Prim
>
>
> =C2-=C2-
>
> =C2-=C2-
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
>
> =C2- From: Joseph Rhodes [mailto:joe(at)rvbuildernet.com]
> =C2- Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:49 PM
> =C2- To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> =C2- Subject: To Prim or not to Prim
>
> =C2-=C2-
>
> =C2- New builder 40744 Joseph Rhodes
>
> =C2-=C2-
>
> =C2- To Prim or not to Prim and with what=C2-
>
> =C2- I live in Florida and with the humidity, salt air and for
> resale value I would like to use a good primer
>
> =C2- What are you builders using?=C2-=C2-
>
> =C2- Any help would be appreciated
>
> =C2-=C2-
>
> =C2- Thanks Joe
>
>
>
>
===========
====
========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: To Prim or not to Prim |
Kent,
STOP DOING THAT!!!
Without adequate flame arrestors on the lines supplying the fluids and air
your an explosion waiting to happen. The vapors trapped in the bowl of the
gun will make a very nice IED with alumium sharpnel for all.
Rick Sked
Safety Guy by day, RV-10 builder by night.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kent Ogden" <OgdenK(at)upstate.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2007 6:38:55 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: To Prim or not to Prim
Hi Joe,
I too am a new builder, I went with the Akzo Nobel epoxy primer that can be
purchase from Aircraft Spruce.=C2-
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/akzoprimer.php
I decided on this because it is specifically stated to be fluid and corrosi
ve resistant, which not all primers are as I understand.=C2- Many primers
are intended to have a topcoat, and are primarily designed to provide good
adhesion for the topcoat and not necessarily provide the ultimate in prote
ction themselves.
Once I sprayed this stuff on, I was very convinced that it will provide exc
ellent protection as it is very hard and impermeable when cured.=C2- I al
so emailed their technical support to as whether alodining is necessary.=C2
- They dithered a little and wouldn't come out and say that you don't nee
d to alodine, just that the adhesion would be somewhat better if you did.
=C2- I alodined the vertical stabilizer, it was a big pain in the neck fo
r me since I don't have water in my shop.=C2-
I decided I won't alodine any more (except maybe some small parts since I d
o have some of the chemicals).=C2- I just make sure I scuff VERY well wit
h scotchbrite and clean the surface thoroughly with MEK before priming.=C2
- Last week I bought the Taylor pneumatic DA (dual action) sander from Cl
eaveland tools ( http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=A
DAS11 ) as well as the scotchbrite pad holder ( http://www.cleavelandtoolst
ore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=3MD945 ) and a bunch of the pads to cut for t
he sander ( http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=3MP47
).=C2- Nothing like the right tool to make a job easy, but this doesn't w
ork very well for small parts or 'inside' ribs etc.=C2- I see that Taylor
makes a 2" version of this sander (costs twice as much as the big one!) so
I may go this route for small parts, or just continue to scuff them by han
d.
When everything is well prepped, even without alodining the Akzo primer gri
ps like a mad monkey.=C2- I don't think I will regret going this route, a
nd I hope to be flying this plane for a very long time.
Oh yeah, I bought a cheap HVLP sprayer (Chicago Electric?) from Harbor Frei
ght.=C2- I was very unhappy with it at first, but after adjusting and twe
aking the air output it does a reasonable job.=C2- Cleanup of the Akzo is
easy, put some MEK in the cup and spray it out a few times.=C2- Definite
ly want to do that outside!=C2- I actually ignite the stuff with a torch
as it comes out of the gun, it makes an impressive flame (who says building
is the only fun we can have?).=C2- Standard disclaimers apply if you do
this yourself!
Kent Ogden
#40710
>>> "Joseph Rhodes" 10/01/07 6:57 PM >>>
From: Joseph Rhodes [mailto:joe(at)rvbuildernet.com]
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:49 PM
Subject: To Prim or not to Prim
New builder 40744 Joseph Rhodes
To Prim or not to Prim and with what=C2-
I live in Florida and with the humidity, salt air and for resale value I wo
uld like to use a good primer
What are you builders using? =C2-=C2-
Any help would be appreciated
==============
====
========================
=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD~=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD,=EF=BD=EF=BD
=EF=BD%=EF=BD=EF=BDM4=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDx=EF=BD=EF
=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDw=EF=BDr=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Vent Boxes |
For just those reasons, we opted to use the SS vent boxes, too.
John Ackerman 40458 (mis-named finishing kit)
On Oct 2, 2007, at 1:01 AM, RV_10 wrote:
> Les,
>
> We felt the same and replaced our Al vent boxes with stainless steel.
>
> John Cleary
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LES KEARNEY
> Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2007 3:31 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Firewall Vent Boxes
>
> Hi
>
> A couple of weeks ago there was an interesting thread about the
> various flavours of Pro-Seal and what should be used to seal gaps
> in the firewall. The gist of the discussion was that the actual
> compound used to seal the gaps should have the apropriate fire
> (temperature) rating.
>
>
> As I complete the fuselage, I keep looking at the aluminium vent
> boxes that mount on the engine side of the firewall. I have also
> just come across this link to a company that sells steel vent boxes
> for RV10s and other Van's a/c. Th link is http://www.epm-avcorp.com/
> ssdiv.html.
>
>
> Are there any opinions out there as to whether or not this is a
> useful upgrade to the Vans kit. It seems to me that if the firewall
> is steel and we are going to take great care to fireproof the gaps,
> shouldn't we do the same with the vent boxes (which represent the
> largest penetration of the firewall)? This seems logical to me, but
> I would be interested in other points of view.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les Kearney
>
> #40643
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com> |
| Subject: | Firewall Vent Boxes |
I am wondering what the reality of survival of an engine fire is? I have no
experience with them and I cannot recall anyone talking about having one
while hangar flying. Does anyone have actual experience or firsthand
experience with engine fires? I have gone back and forth about ordering the
stainless heater boxes myself but still have not. The kitplanes article was
a hell of a sales pitch yes but my gut says unless you are somewhat close to
the ground and can get down in a real big hurry I think the chances of
surviving the ordeal, with or without the SS heater boxes, is pretty small.
If there is a fuel or oil line feeding the fire it might be so enveloping
that your f*&( anyway.
Yes I would really hate to think while burning up "wow should of bought the
SS heater boxes".
Not wanting to start a list war just an open conversation and the other side
of the opinions (to make an informed decision).
Ben Westfall
#40579
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LES KEARNEY
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 10:31 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Firewall Vent Boxes
Hi
A couple of weeks ago there was an interesting thread about the various
flavours of Pro-Seal and what should be used to seal gaps in the firewall.
The gist of the discussion was that the actual compound used to seal the
gaps should have the apropriate fire (temperature) rating.
As I complete the fuselage, I keep looking at the aluminium vent boxes that
mount on the engine side of the firewall. I have also just come across this
link to a company that sells steel vent boxes for RV10s and other Van's a/c.
Th link is http://www.epm-avcorp.com/ssdiv.html.
Are there any opinions out there as to whether or not this is a useful
upgrade to the Vans kit. It seems to me that if the firewall is steel and we
are going to take great care to fireproof the gaps, shouldn't we do the same
with the vent boxes (which represent the largest penetration of the
firewall)? This seems logical to me, but I would be interested in other
points of view.
Cheers
Les Kearney
#40643
----- Original Message -----
From: Pascal <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Date: Monday, October 1, 2007 10:05 pm
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: To Prim or not to Prim
> oy vay!
> Look at the archives and you'll see 100's of opinions on this.
> Use anything you want from a DTM wash primer from SW to the
> Van's QB primer of SW P60 to 2 part stuff from Spruce.
> Jesse can tell you what he's using.
> My decision in California was prime for the extra measure (and
> scratches I seemed to create moving pieces around) and I used
> the easiest thing I could find. Sherwin Williams DTM wash
> primer. It works, I believe, well enough for me.
> I believe ERAU has Cessnas in Daytona Beach with no primer- I
> doubt they're worried about it..
> Pascal
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joseph Rhodes
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 3:57 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: FW: To Prim or not to Prim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
>
> From: Joseph Rhodes [mailto:joe(at)rvbuildernet.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:49 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: To Prim or not to Prim
>
>
>
> New builder 40744 Joseph Rhodes
>
>
>
> To Prim or not to Prim and with what
>
> I live in Florida and with the humidity, salt air and for
> resale value I would like to use a good primer
>
> What are you builders using?
>
> Any help would be appreciated
>
>
>
> Thanks Joe
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Ritter <mritter509(at)msn.com> |
Kennon Aircraft Covers makes a quality sun shield. I have used them on sev
eral different spam cans. Is anybody that's flying close to their operatio
n in Sheridan, WY? Looks like they would be happy to make them for the RV-
10 if they had the measurements.
Mark
RV-10/N410MR (Going to LOE)
_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts!- Play Star Shuffle:- the word scramble
challenge with star power.
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oc
t
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | NACA Vents and static ports |
I spoke directly with Bill De rouchey and the fellow in Watsonville on
this issue. They have performed several in the air tests to compair and
calibrate thier respective systems (Bill makes the EFIS installed in the
Watsonville RV-10) and they have noticed NO difference in airspeed or
altitude readings due to the placement of the NACA vents wrt static ports.
Deems
orchidman wrote:
>
> I am seriously considering going this route but before this thread started I
had a question that has not been addressed yet and I believe it can only be addressed
by someone flying.
>
> My question is: Is there any impact with the static ports? The location of
the NACA scoops appear to be in line with the static ports. Do the scoops induce
any disturbance that could interfere with the static ports?
>
> --------
> Gary Blankenbiller
> RV10 - # 40674
> Fuselage SB
> (N410GB reserved)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137397#137397
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> |
Cleveland also has a good light weight one for RV10.
On Oct 2, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Mark Ritter wrote:
>
> Kennon Aircraft Covers makes a quality sun shield. I have used
> them on several different spam cans. Is anybody that's flying
> close to their operation in Sheridan, WY? Looks like they would be
> happy to make them for the RV-10 if they had the measurements.
>
> Mark
> RV-10/N410MR (Going to LOE)
>
>
>
>
> Climb to the top of the charts! Play Star Shuffle: the word
> scramble challenge with star power. Play Now!
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List_-
> ============================================================ _-
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ===========================================================
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Ritter <mritter509(at)msn.com> |
Rob,
Does Cleveland have a "sun shield" that fit inside the cabin on the windows
? I have a nice cover from Bruce but the light weight sun shields from Ken
non work great on short trips for $200 hamburgers.
Mark
RV-10/N410MR
From: flysrv10(at)gmail.comSubject: Re: RV10-List: Sun ShieldsDate: Tue, 2 Oct
ght weight one for RV10.
On Oct 2, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Mark Ritter wrote:
Kennon Aircraft Covers makes a quality sun shield. I have used them on sev
eral different spam cans. Is anybody that's flying close to their operatio
n in Sheridan, WY? Looks like they would be happy to make them for the RV-
10 if they had the measurements. MarkRV-10/N410MR (Going to LOE)
Climb to the top of the charts! Play Star Shuffle: the word scramble chal
lenge with star power. Play Now! - The RV10-List Email Forum - clas
s="Apple-converted-space"> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Li
st - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - class="Apple-converted-spac
e"> --> http://forums.matronics.com
_________________________________________________________________
Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Newman" <rnewman(at)lutron.com> |
| Subject: | battery cable routing |
I've studied many of the contruction logs from the popular sites and
haven't seen much on the routing of the big battery cables. I've seen
no real guidance in Van's instructions in the Finishing kit or the FF
kit.
So here's the basic question. For those that have already done it,
have you run the 2 gauge battery cables through one of your flexible
conduits from behind the baggage compartment up into the sidewall above
the wing spar? or have you made other dedicated hole for the battery
cables and kept the conduits open for all the other wires?
Also, is there a preferred side to land the battery cables on the
firewall? On our other airplanes we have always landed the wires on
the pilot side, cause it made for the shortes run to the starter,
However this plane seems to have the oil cooler taking up a lot of space
on that side.
Thoughts and pictures appreciated.
Bob Newman,
slow build fuse now attached to tail cone.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NACA Vents and static ports |
| From: | "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com> |
Deems Davis wrote:
> I spoke directly with Bill De rouchey and the fellow in Watsonville on
> this issue. They have performed several in the air tests to compair and
> calibrate thier respective systems (Bill makes the EFIS installed in the
> Watsonville RV-10) and they have noticed NO difference in airspeed or
> altitude readings due to the placement of the NACA vents wrt static ports.
>
> Deems
>
Deems,
Thats reassuring to hear that someone has already addressed this. Thanks.
Back to 'full throttle' building [Mr. Green]
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Fuselage SB
(N410GB reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137625#137625
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net> |
| Subject: | Firewall vent boxes |
I thought about the stainless vent boxes but decided against them.
My thought was that if it is hot enough to metal aluminum the
fiberglass cowling will have caught on fire as well and you are
still screwed. Fiberglass will burn furiously and if the cowling
is burning there is just that 1/4" of plexiglass between you and the
flames.
I think prevention is a far better cure. Replacing hoses before they
get old and stiff, making sure all the fluid connections are tight,
and the exhaust system is tight and secure would be far more beneficial.
Sheldon Olesen
40080 Last "10%"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Vent Boxes |
| From: | "nick(at)nleonard.com" <nick(at)nleonard.com> |
Do engine fires ever happen, of course they do but certainly not a common occurrence.
I can think of two in particular of which I am familiar with who the pilots
were. One was recently in a Tri-pacer that never should have happened.
The pilot flew three times while trying to solve a "smoke in the cabin" problem.
The last time required him and his passenger to bail out of the plane during
the roll-out. A broken leg and some "minor" burns.
The one that has me taking extra step (explained below) happened several years
ago in an RV-4. The very experienced pilot and his passenger were on the down
wind to his private strip when a fire broke out in the engine (apparent fuel
leak). In the short time it took to get the plane down he had severe burns from
the flames that had come out from under the cowling and burnt a hole through
the bottom of the belly by his legs. His passenger survived but he did not.
Smoke and heat were as much of a problem as was the flames.
So, yes I did replace the heat vents for stainless ones and also the aluminum fuel
line thru-wall AN fitting for a steel fitting. I'm not sure why Van's would
provide an aluminum fitting for going through the firewall.
I also put down an insulation (available from ACS) under the floor, back to the
spar, which has layers of stainless, a mat material, and then aluminum. It is
comparably heavy but besides the peace of mind, I'm expecting that it will be
very effective for noise and temperature insulation, especially in the tunnel.
It is a bit of overkill from the fire-proofing point of view, but I also used
it on the back of the firewall for the sound/temperature insulation factor.
Nick 40015 -finishing
--------
Nick Leonard
RV-10 (40015) Finish
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137628#137628
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh |
| From: | "dherring10" <dherring10(at)suddenlink.net> |
George,
I just saw your post about my panel Tony had in his booth at Oshkosh. John is
correct that I am a lurker. Maybe when I actually have a flying airplane I will
feel that I can give advice about building to others. Besides there have always
been such good answers posted by the time I read the questions that in most
instances I could not add anything. Tim Olsen has told me to respond anyway
so maybe I'll start now. Here are a couple more pictures of my panel. Some of
the items and switches Tony and Eric had installed on the panel are not the ones
that will actually be used. They were just trying to fill the holes for the
show. Let me know if you have any specific questions that I can answer and feel
free to contact me offline if you want. I was looking at both the Chelton
and OP Tech systems and had decided on the Chelton until the D2 problems. After
Tony and I talked about and I did my own research I decided to use the OP Tech.
Hoping for good things with the buy-out of OP Tech by Aerosonics. Besides
if Deems was using them I knew he had done the homework.
I will tell you that Tony, Eric and all the gang at Accuracy Avionics have been
great to work with. I think they will ship the panel to me sometime this month.
I wish I was really ready for it.
dwayne@mid-westglass.com
Dwayne Herring
40506
QB Fuse
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137631#137631
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_2_183.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_1_183.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: battery cable routing |
Some of it is very dependent on your electrical system architecture and
implementation.
eg.
1. Are you running a dual battery or dual alt system?
2. Where are you planning on placing the busses? If you put them on one
side or the other of the subpanel, it will likely influence which side
you run cable on.
I ran a #2 Battery to Starter contactor cable on the pilot side for the
reasons Tim noted. I also ran a #4 cable on the left side for the main
buss & a #10 for the Aux buss, as this is wher e I've located the fuse
blocks for the busses.
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
Bob Newman wrote:
>
> I've studied many of the contruction logs from the popular sites and
> haven't seen much on the routing of the big battery cables. I've seen
> no real guidance in Van's instructions in the Finishing kit or the FF
> kit.
>
> So here's the basic question. For those that have already done it,
> have you run the 2 gauge battery cables through one of your flexible
> conduits from behind the baggage compartment up into the sidewall above
> the wing spar? or have you made other dedicated hole for the battery
> cables and kept the conduits open for all the other wires?
>
> Also, is there a preferred side to land the battery cables on the
> firewall? On our other airplanes we have always landed the wires on
> the pilot side, cause it made for the shortes run to the starter,
> However this plane seems to have the oil cooler taking up a lot of space
> on that side.
>
> Thoughts and pictures appreciated.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> |
| Subject: | battery cable routing |
Bob,
I originally intended a firewall mounted battery, so I closed up my
floorboards before I ran the cable. I wish I hadn't. The rear battery now
forces the cable up the right side to avoid going over the baggage door,
etc. That added at least 3' of cable.
Go under the floorboards and up the left side. I think there are provisions
to mount a contactor on the left side of the firewall above the oil cooler.
Plenty of room there for the cables. The starter is on the left too, so you
don't have to cross over.
I put my contactor indoors, also closer to the APU plug tie-in.
The picture is from the tunnel looking left. It would have been easy to
route the cable up the left side. Doh.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
#40394 FAA inspected, xpndr check and training today, then first flight
ASAP.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Newman
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:59 AM
Subject: RV10-List: battery cable routing
I've studied many of the contruction logs from the popular sites and
haven't seen much on the routing of the big battery cables. I've seen
no real guidance in Van's instructions in the Finishing kit or the FF kit.
So here's the basic question. For those that have already done it, have you
run the 2 gauge battery cables through one of your flexible conduits from
behind the baggage compartment up into the sidewall above the wing spar? or
have you made other dedicated hole for the battery cables and kept the
conduits open for all the other wires?
Also, is there a preferred side to land the battery cables on the
firewall? On our other airplanes we have always landed the wires on
the pilot side, cause it made for the shortes run to the starter, However
this plane seems to have the oil cooler taking up a lot of space on that
side.
Thoughts and pictures appreciated.
Bob Newman,
slow build fuse now attached to tail cone.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Vent Boxes |
| From: | "nick(at)nleonard.com" <nick(at)nleonard.com> |
Just a quick response to Sheldon's comment about the fiberglass burning and the
windscreen...yes, that is all true but when the plane is moving, the flames will
follow the air through the engine, moving down to the bottom of the firewall
and out past the exhaust pipes. I would suggest that anything that is along
that path is the most critical area to worry about. The area around the exhaust
exit will have all the ingredients for creating a nice blow torch. Gee,
that is right about where your feet are, isn't it. The only thing missing is
the fuel source, such as a leaking fuel line....
Also remember that it isn't necessarily the direct flames that will kill you as
much as the smoke and heat burning your lungs. It's hard to close those vents
if they have melted away. They are within inches of where the fuel line penetrates
the firewall. That fitting should be steel, not aluminum.
I'll get off the my horse now, if somebody else wants to take it for a ride...
--------
Nick Leonard
RV-10 (40015) Finish
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137638#137638
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Soverit" <georgesoverit(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh |
Thank you Dwayne, I think anybody who comes up with a panel as beautiful as
yours has a lot to share with this group.
At the moment we are struggling with how to finish the interior off in our
10 so it looks sweet but doesn't add too much weight. I was quite taken by
the look and feel of your panel and wondered if a similar approach could be
taken with the rest of the interior and wondered what you planned to do.
I believe you have used the Nextel Suede Coating product on your panel and
wondered if you plan to use it anywhere else inside the cabin?
If you have done the thinking, perhaps you could share with us all what you
plan to do with the rest of your cabin inside? Any photos of any progress
would be gratefully appreciated.
Thank you,
George
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dherring10
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 3:07 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
George,
I just saw your post about my panel Tony had in his booth at Oshkosh. John
is correct that I am a lurker. Maybe when I actually have a flying airplane
I will feel that I can give advice about building to others. Besides there
have always been such good answers posted by the time I read the questions
that in most instances I could not add anything. Tim Olsen has told me to
respond anyway so maybe I'll start now. Here are a couple more pictures of
my panel. Some of the items and switches Tony and Eric had installed on the
panel are not the ones that will actually be used. They were just trying to
fill the holes for the show. Let me know if you have any specific questions
that I can answer and feel free to contact me offline if you want. I was
looking at both the Chelton and OP Tech systems and had decided on the
Chelton until the D2 problems. After Tony and I talked about and I did my
own research I decided to use the OP Tech. Hoping for good things with the
buy-out of OP Te!
ch by Aerosonics. Besides if Deems was using them I knew he had done the
homework.
I will tell you that Tony, Eric and all the gang at Accuracy Avionics have
been great to work with. I think they will ship the panel to me sometime
this month. I wish I was really ready for it.
dwayne@mid-westglass.com
Dwayne Herring
40506
QB Fuse
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137631#137631
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_2_183.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_1_183.jpg
6:59 PM
6:59 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LES KEARNEY <Kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Vent Boxes |
Hi
I am truly impressed with the coments received. It certainly seems that the vent
selection is just one of many considerations.
I think I am going to investigate fire resistant insulation for at least the floor.
As I fly in winter in -20c weather, it would be helpful for a couple of reasons.
A few years ago I saw some car insulation that was a dense fiber material
(about 1/4" thick) that was foil backed. I remember seeing it being tested
with a propane torch and it didn't support a flame and didn't melt. It was also
quite light. The only problem I could see with it was that it would aborb moisture.
I know some people in the certified world who work on the big iron. I will see
if they can suggest a better material.
Cheers
Les
#40643
----- Original Message -----
From: "nick(at)nleonard.com" <nick(at)nleonard.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 2, 2007 11:39 am
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Firewall Vent Boxes
>
> Just a quick response to Sheldon's comment about the fiberglass
> burning and the windscreen...yes, that is all true but when the
> plane is moving, the flames will follow the air through the
> engine, moving down to the bottom of the firewall and out past
> the exhaust pipes. I would suggest that anything that is
> along that path is the most critical area to worry about.
> The area around the exhaust exit will have all the ingredients
> for creating a nice blow torch. Gee, that is right about
> where your feet are, isn't it. The only thing missing is
> the fuel source, such as a leaking fuel line....
>
> Also remember that it isn't necessarily the direct flames that
> will kill you as much as the smoke and heat burning your
> lungs. It's hard to close those vents if they have melted
> away. They are within inches of where the fuel line
> penetrates the firewall. That fitting should be steel, not
> aluminum.
> I'll get off the my horse now, if somebody else wants to take it
> for a ride...
>
> --------
> Nick Leonard
> RV-10 (40015) Finish
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137638#137638
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> RV10-List Email Forum -
> _-
> = - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: battery cable routing |
| From: | "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> |
Bob,
I've a bunch of pictures of the conduit routing on my website
www.wellenzohn.net
It starts on in the bottom of the gallery No9
http://www.wellenzohn.net/Fuselage/index9.html
I routed three conduits to the front.
Michael
Fuselage/finishing/FWF
--------
RV-10 builder (fuselage)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137665#137665
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery cable routing |
I'm doing a dual battery, dual alternator, split bus system. For
cabling, I'm following the lead of Van's basic electrical harness and
running my #2 and my #6 guage together along the left side using exactly
the route laid out in their installation instructions.
I've tried to do some careful planning and sizing and it looks like I
can run all the wiring between front and back using snap bushings, cable
clamps, edge grommets and the brackets included in Van's electrical
harness kit (they can all be ordered separately). I'm simply
replicating the left side on the right side too. Then I'm adding some
conduit for unforseen future cable.
Now this is all planned but not all done yet. The cables are going in
this week or so. So we'll see.
As many have said, the Van's kit is limited for many of the panels and
systems we're installing, but a very good starting point nonetheless.
Using the installation manual to guide my own custom setup seems like a
very good way to go.
Bob Newman wrote:
>
> I've studied many of the contruction logs from the popular sites and
> haven't seen much on the routing of the big battery cables. I've seen
> no real guidance in Van's instructions in the Finishing kit or the FF
> kit.
>
> So here's the basic question. For those that have already done it,
> have you run the 2 gauge battery cables through one of your flexible
> conduits from behind the baggage compartment up into the sidewall above
> the wing spar? or have you made other dedicated hole for the battery
> cables and kept the conduits open for all the other wires?
>
> Also, is there a preferred side to land the battery cables on the
> firewall? On our other airplanes we have always landed the wires on
> the pilot side, cause it made for the shortes run to the starter,
> However this plane seems to have the oil cooler taking up a lot of space
> on that side.
>
> Thoughts and pictures appreciated.
>
>
> Bob Newman,
> slow build fuse now attached to tail cone.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Dwayne, great to have you surface like this. Your selections with the
help of the gang at Accuracy adds another rung at climbing the ladder of
RV-10s setting a new kit building standard.
I too, think Deems has done his homework and look forward to his Phase
I, fly off.
Your panel is one of the top 10 in my book.
John
40600
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dherring10
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 10:07 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
George,
I just saw your post about my panel Tony had in his booth at Oshkosh.
John is correct that I am a lurker. Maybe when I actually have a flying
airplane I will feel that I can give advice about building to others.
Besides there have always been such good answers posted by the time I
read the questions that in most instances I could not add anything. Tim
Olsen has told me to respond anyway so maybe I'll start now. Here are a
couple more pictures of my panel. Some of the items and switches Tony
and Eric had installed on the panel are not the ones that will actually
be used. They were just trying to fill the holes for the show. Let me
know if you have any specific questions that I can answer and feel free
to contact me offline if you want. I was looking at both the Chelton and
OP Tech systems and had decided on the Chelton until the D2 problems.
After Tony and I talked about and I did my own research I decided to use
the OP Tech. Hoping for good things with the buy-out of OP Te!
ch by Aerosonics. Besides if Deems was using them I knew he had done
the homework.
I will tell you that Tony, Eric and all the gang at Accuracy Avionics
have been great to work with. I think they will ship the panel to me
sometime this month. I wish I was really ready for it.
dwayne@mid-westglass.com
Dwayne Herring
40506
QB Fuse
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137631#137631
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_2_183.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_1_183.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | Door Seal Material |
I was surfing RV sites one day and came across a site offering some door
seal material for the RV-10 but can't seem to find it again. Has any one
else seen that site or know anything about the product?
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Beyer" <fehdxl(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: To Prim or not to Prim |
Kent, Here's a link to a post on VAF.net ... I too use AKZO and found a way
to save a few $$.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=19480&highlight=azko
Here's the copy/paste of the post.
Aircraft Spruce sells it for $134 <
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/akzoprimer.php> plus some
normal & hazardous shipping.
Graco Supply <http://www.gracosupply.com/> (866) 943-4200 sells it for $87.
Graco doesn't charge any handling fee and they thought it would be around
$35 to ship because of the extra $20 hazardous shipping fee. Even with
Spruce's free shipping (but not free hazardous shipping), you would be about
30% less.
No connection with Graco other than happy they would sell to me since they
usually deal with the bigger companies around Wichita.
-Jim
40603
...I went with the Akzo Nobel epoxy primer that can be purchase from
> Aircraft Spruce.
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/akzoprimer.php
>
>
> Kent Ogden
> #40710
>
>
Hmm, to archive or not?? I guess so, since it might help someone save some
$$ down the road
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh |
I too have an OP tech panel (integrated system) My math says that there are
3 of us, but I hear rumors of more folks that have chosen OP. If any of you
are lurking, speak up and we can compare notes.
Gary
40274
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 6:28 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
Dwayne, great to have you surface like this. Your selections with the
help of the gang at Accuracy adds another rung at climbing the ladder of
RV-10s setting a new kit building standard.
I too, think Deems has done his homework and look forward to his Phase
I, fly off.
Your panel is one of the top 10 in my book.
John
40600
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dherring10
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 10:07 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
George,
I just saw your post about my panel Tony had in his booth at Oshkosh.
John is correct that I am a lurker. Maybe when I actually have a flying
airplane I will feel that I can give advice about building to others.
Besides there have always been such good answers posted by the time I
read the questions that in most instances I could not add anything. Tim
Olsen has told me to respond anyway so maybe I'll start now. Here are a
couple more pictures of my panel. Some of the items and switches Tony
and Eric had installed on the panel are not the ones that will actually
be used. They were just trying to fill the holes for the show. Let me
know if you have any specific questions that I can answer and feel free
to contact me offline if you want. I was looking at both the Chelton and
OP Tech systems and had decided on the Chelton until the D2 problems.
After Tony and I talked about and I did my own research I decided to use
the OP Tech. Hoping for good things with the buy-out of OP Te!
ch by Aerosonics. Besides if Deems was using them I knew he had done
the homework.
I will tell you that Tony, Eric and all the gang at Accuracy Avionics
have been great to work with. I think they will ship the panel to me
sometime this month. I wish I was really ready for it.
dwayne@mid-westglass.com
Dwayne Herring
40506
QB Fuse
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137631#137631
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_2_183.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_1_183.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | QB fuselage floors |
| From: | "dmaib(at)mac.com" <dmaib(at)mac.com> |
I have removed the baggage area floors, rear seat pans, and started on the rear
seat floors this evening. I drilled out the 16 or so pop rivets holding the F1016C
(I think) floor. I am unable to budge the floor and cannot figure out what
is holding it in position. Any insights will be much appreciated.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137736#137736
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Door Seal Material |
Al,
Are they Alex Dominicas?
Check the link:
http://www.aviationtechproducts.com/html/accessories.html
Rick S.
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2007 4:28:18 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Door Seal Material
I was surfing RV sites one day and came across a site offering some door
seal material for the RV-10 but can't seem to find it again. Has any one
else seen that site or know anything about the product?
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh |
Pat Thysen also has an Op Tech panel.
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
gary wrote:
>
> I too have an OP tech panel (integrated system) My math says that there are
> 3 of us, but I hear rumors of more folks that have chosen OP. If any of you
> are lurking, speak up and we can compare notes.
>
> Gary
> 40274
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 6:28 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
>
>
> Dwayne, great to have you surface like this. Your selections with the
> help of the gang at Accuracy adds another rung at climbing the ladder of
> RV-10s setting a new kit building standard.
>
> I too, think Deems has done his homework and look forward to his Phase
> I, fly off.
>
> Your panel is one of the top 10 in my book.
>
> John
> 40600
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dherring10
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 10:07 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
>
>
>
> George,
> I just saw your post about my panel Tony had in his booth at Oshkosh.
> John is correct that I am a lurker. Maybe when I actually have a flying
> airplane I will feel that I can give advice about building to others.
> Besides there have always been such good answers posted by the time I
> read the questions that in most instances I could not add anything. Tim
> Olsen has told me to respond anyway so maybe I'll start now. Here are a
> couple more pictures of my panel. Some of the items and switches Tony
> and Eric had installed on the panel are not the ones that will actually
> be used. They were just trying to fill the holes for the show. Let me
> know if you have any specific questions that I can answer and feel free
> to contact me offline if you want. I was looking at both the Chelton and
> OP Tech systems and had decided on the Chelton until the D2 problems.
> After Tony and I talked about and I did my own research I decided to use
> the OP Tech. Hoping for good things with the buy-out of OP Te!
> ch by Aerosonics. Besides if Deems was using them I knew he had done
> the homework.
>
> I will tell you that Tony, Eric and all the gang at Accuracy Avionics
> have been great to work with. I think they will ship the panel to me
> sometime this month. I wish I was really ready for it.
>
> dwayne@mid-westglass.com
>
> Dwayne Herring
> 40506
> QB Fuse
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137631#137631
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_2_183.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_1_183.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh |
Patrick O'Neil has also ordered his OP Tech systems.
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
gary wrote:
>
> I too have an OP tech panel (integrated system) My math says that there are
> 3 of us, but I hear rumors of more folks that have chosen OP. If any of you
> are lurking, speak up and we can compare notes.
>
> Gary
> 40274
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 6:28 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
>
>
> Dwayne, great to have you surface like this. Your selections with the
> help of the gang at Accuracy adds another rung at climbing the ladder of
> RV-10s setting a new kit building standard.
>
> I too, think Deems has done his homework and look forward to his Phase
> I, fly off.
>
> Your panel is one of the top 10 in my book.
>
> John
> 40600
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dherring10
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 10:07 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
>
>
>
> George,
> I just saw your post about my panel Tony had in his booth at Oshkosh.
> John is correct that I am a lurker. Maybe when I actually have a flying
> airplane I will feel that I can give advice about building to others.
> Besides there have always been such good answers posted by the time I
> read the questions that in most instances I could not add anything. Tim
> Olsen has told me to respond anyway so maybe I'll start now. Here are a
> couple more pictures of my panel. Some of the items and switches Tony
> and Eric had installed on the panel are not the ones that will actually
> be used. They were just trying to fill the holes for the show. Let me
> know if you have any specific questions that I can answer and feel free
> to contact me offline if you want. I was looking at both the Chelton and
> OP Tech systems and had decided on the Chelton until the D2 problems.
> After Tony and I talked about and I did my own research I decided to use
> the OP Tech. Hoping for good things with the buy-out of OP Te!
> ch by Aerosonics. Besides if Deems was using them I knew he had done
> the homework.
>
> I will tell you that Tony, Eric and all the gang at Accuracy Avionics
> have been great to work with. I think they will ship the panel to me
> sometime this month. I wish I was really ready for it.
>
> dwayne@mid-westglass.com
>
> Dwayne Herring
> 40506
> QB Fuse
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137631#137631
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_2_183.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_1_183.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: battery cable routing |
I ran mine from behind the baggage compartment up into the sidewall above
the wing spar like you said. Then it makes a bend inboard and down going
under the pilot seat, under the forward floor board (under the pilot's
feet), and up the hole right aft of the firewall. Same on the right side
for other wires. This eliminates wires being visible around the NACA vent
areas.
Anh
N591VU- just broke 100hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: battery cable routing
>
>
> Some of it is very dependent on your electrical system architecture and
> implementation.
>
> eg.
> 1. Are you running a dual battery or dual alt system?
> 2. Where are you planning on placing the busses? If you put them on one
> side or the other of the subpanel, it will likely influence which side you
> run cable on.
>
> I ran a #2 Battery to Starter contactor cable on the pilot side for the
> reasons Tim noted. I also ran a #4 cable on the left side for the main
> buss & a #10 for the Aux buss, as this is wher e I've located the fuse
> blocks for the busses.
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> 'Its all done....Its just not put together'
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
> Bob Newman wrote:
>>
>> I've studied many of the contruction logs from the popular sites and
>> haven't seen much on the routing of the big battery cables. I've seen
>> no real guidance in Van's instructions in the Finishing kit or the FF
>> kit.
>>
>> So here's the basic question. For those that have already done it,
>> have you run the 2 gauge battery cables through one of your flexible
>> conduits from behind the baggage compartment up into the sidewall above
>> the wing spar? or have you made other dedicated hole for the battery
>> cables and kept the conduits open for all the other wires?
>>
>> Also, is there a preferred side to land the battery cables on the
>> firewall? On our other airplanes we have always landed the wires on
>> the pilot side, cause it made for the shortes run to the starter, However
>> this plane seems to have the oil cooler taking up a lot of space
>> on that side.
>>
>> Thoughts and pictures appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | Door Seal Material |
That's the one Rick. Many thanks.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
-----Original Message-----
Al, Are they Alex Dominicas?
Check the link:
http://www.aviationtechproducts.com/html/accessories.html
Rick S.
40185
----- Original Message -----
I was surfing RV sites one day and came across a site offering some door
seal material for the RV-10 but can't seem to find it again. Has any one
else seen that site or know anything about the product?
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh |
Yup, I ordered back in July, and am now eagerly awaiting the resuming of
production by OP. Darn acquisition doldrums!
Do any of you other OP guys happen to know if you can change the screen
orientation (portrait vs. landscape) in the field or if it needs to be set
at the factory?
All these great OP panels and the waiting are causing me reconsider things
again and again.
Best Regards,
Patrick #40715
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
Patrick O'Neil has also ordered his OP Tech systems.
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together' http://deemsrv10.com/ gary
wrote:
>
> I too have an OP tech panel (integrated system) My math says that
> there are 3 of us, but I hear rumors of more folks that have chosen
> OP. If any of you are lurking, speak up and we can compare notes.
>
> Gary
> 40274
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 6:28 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
>
> -->
>
> Dwayne, great to have you surface like this. Your selections with the
> help of the gang at Accuracy adds another rung at climbing the ladder
> of RV-10s setting a new kit building standard.
>
> I too, think Deems has done his homework and look forward to his Phase
> I, fly off.
>
> Your panel is one of the top 10 in my book.
>
> John
> 40600
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dherring10
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 10:07 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
>
>
>
> George,
> I just saw your post about my panel Tony had in his booth at Oshkosh.
> John is correct that I am a lurker. Maybe when I actually have a flying
> airplane I will feel that I can give advice about building to others.
> Besides there have always been such good answers posted by the time I
> read the questions that in most instances I could not add anything. Tim
> Olsen has told me to respond anyway so maybe I'll start now. Here are a
> couple more pictures of my panel. Some of the items and switches Tony
> and Eric had installed on the panel are not the ones that will actually
> be used. They were just trying to fill the holes for the show. Let me
> know if you have any specific questions that I can answer and feel free
> to contact me offline if you want. I was looking at both the Chelton and
> OP Tech systems and had decided on the Chelton until the D2 problems.
> After Tony and I talked about and I did my own research I decided to use
> the OP Tech. Hoping for good things with the buy-out of OP Te!
> ch by Aerosonics. Besides if Deems was using them I knew he had done
> the homework.
>
> I will tell you that Tony, Eric and all the gang at Accuracy Avionics
> have been great to work with. I think they will ship the panel to me
> sometime this month. I wish I was really ready for it.
>
> dwayne@mid-westglass.com
>
> Dwayne Herring
> 40506
> QB Fuse
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137631#137631
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_2_183.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_1_183.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | Firewall Vent Boxes |
My feeling is there is a reason they call it a firewall. I went with the s
tainless boxes because to me, it doesn't make sense to have aluminum acting
as a fire barrier on a major part that is made to block a fuel fed fire an
d give you that extra precious couple minutes to possibly get to safety. T
hey also have ceramic gaskets for those that feel some of the tunnel heat i
s via conduction of the heater boxes.
Nothing wrong with Van's boxes.... unless you have a engine fire.
My 0.02
Michael Sausen
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of LES KEARNEY
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 12:31 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Firewall Vent Boxes
Hi
A couple of weeks ago there was an interesting thread about the various fla
vours of Pro-Seal and what should be used to seal gaps in the firewall. The
gist of the discussion was that the actual compound used to seal the gaps
should have the apropriate fire (temperature) rating.
As I complete the fuselage, I keep looking at the aluminium vent boxes that
mount on the engine side of the firewall. I have also just come across thi
s link to a company that sells steel vent boxes for RV10s and other Van's a
/c. Th link is http://www.epm-avcorp.com/ssdiv.html.
Are there any opinions out there as to whether or not this is a useful upgr
ade to the Vans kit. It seems to me that if the firewall is steel and we ar
e going to take great care to fireproof the gaps, shouldn't we do the same
with the vent boxes (which represent the largest penetration of the firewal
l)? This seems logical to me, but I would be interested in other points of
view.
Cheers
Les Kearney
#40643
----- Original Message -----
From: Pascal <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Date: Monday, October 1, 2007 10:05 pm
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: To Prim or not to Prim
> oy vay!
> Look at the archives and you'll see 100's of opinions on this.
> Use anything you want from a DTM wash primer from SW to the
> Van's QB primer of SW P60 to 2 part stuff from Spruce.
> Jesse can tell you what he's using.
> My decision in California was prime for the extra measure (and
> scratches I seemed to create moving pieces around) and I used
> the easiest thing I could find. Sherwin Williams DTM wash
> primer. It works, I believe, well enough for me.
> I believe ERAU has Cessnas in Daytona Beach with no primer- I
> doubt they're worried about it..
> Pascal
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joseph Rhodes
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 3:57 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: FW: To Prim or not to Prim
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
>
> From: Joseph Rhodes [mailto:joe(at)rvbuildernet.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:49 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: To Prim or not to Prim
>
>
> New builder 40744 Joseph Rhodes
>
>
> To Prim or not to Prim and with what
>
> I live in Florida and with the humidity, salt air and for
> resale value I would like to use a good primer
>
> What are you builders using?
>
> Any help would be appreciated
>
>
> Thanks Joe
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh |
Do you have contact info on these gents?
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
Pat Thysen also has an Op Tech panel.
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
gary wrote:
>
> I too have an OP tech panel (integrated system) My math says that there
are
> 3 of us, but I hear rumors of more folks that have chosen OP. If any of
you
> are lurking, speak up and we can compare notes.
>
> Gary
> 40274
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 6:28 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
>
>
> Dwayne, great to have you surface like this. Your selections with the
> help of the gang at Accuracy adds another rung at climbing the ladder of
> RV-10s setting a new kit building standard.
>
> I too, think Deems has done his homework and look forward to his Phase
> I, fly off.
>
> Your panel is one of the top 10 in my book.
>
> John
> 40600
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dherring10
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 10:07 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
>
>
>
> George,
> I just saw your post about my panel Tony had in his booth at Oshkosh.
> John is correct that I am a lurker. Maybe when I actually have a flying
> airplane I will feel that I can give advice about building to others.
> Besides there have always been such good answers posted by the time I
> read the questions that in most instances I could not add anything. Tim
> Olsen has told me to respond anyway so maybe I'll start now. Here are a
> couple more pictures of my panel. Some of the items and switches Tony
> and Eric had installed on the panel are not the ones that will actually
> be used. They were just trying to fill the holes for the show. Let me
> know if you have any specific questions that I can answer and feel free
> to contact me offline if you want. I was looking at both the Chelton and
> OP Tech systems and had decided on the Chelton until the D2 problems.
> After Tony and I talked about and I did my own research I decided to use
> the OP Tech. Hoping for good things with the buy-out of OP Te!
> ch by Aerosonics. Besides if Deems was using them I knew he had done
> the homework.
>
> I will tell you that Tony, Eric and all the gang at Accuracy Avionics
> have been great to work with. I think they will ship the panel to me
> sometime this month. I wish I was really ready for it.
>
> dwayne@mid-westglass.com
>
> Dwayne Herring
> 40506
> QB Fuse
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137631#137631
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_2_183.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_1_183.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh |
I don't think that you can change the orientation. I sure would think that
a software change could change it though, but you would end up with the hard
keys and the knobs on the side of the box not the bottom.
Gary
40274
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick ONeill
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 3:42 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
Yup, I ordered back in July, and am now eagerly awaiting the resuming of
production by OP. Darn acquisition doldrums!
Do any of you other OP guys happen to know if you can change the screen
orientation (portrait vs. landscape) in the field or if it needs to be set
at the factory?
All these great OP panels and the waiting are causing me reconsider things
again and again.
Best Regards,
Patrick #40715
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
Patrick O'Neil has also ordered his OP Tech systems.
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together' http://deemsrv10.com/ gary
wrote:
>
> I too have an OP tech panel (integrated system) My math says that
> there are 3 of us, but I hear rumors of more folks that have chosen
> OP. If any of you are lurking, speak up and we can compare notes.
>
> Gary
> 40274
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 6:28 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
>
> -->
>
> Dwayne, great to have you surface like this. Your selections with the
> help of the gang at Accuracy adds another rung at climbing the ladder
> of RV-10s setting a new kit building standard.
>
> I too, think Deems has done his homework and look forward to his Phase
> I, fly off.
>
> Your panel is one of the top 10 in my book.
>
> John
> 40600
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dherring10
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 10:07 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
>
>
>
> George,
> I just saw your post about my panel Tony had in his booth at Oshkosh.
> John is correct that I am a lurker. Maybe when I actually have a flying
> airplane I will feel that I can give advice about building to others.
> Besides there have always been such good answers posted by the time I
> read the questions that in most instances I could not add anything. Tim
> Olsen has told me to respond anyway so maybe I'll start now. Here are a
> couple more pictures of my panel. Some of the items and switches Tony
> and Eric had installed on the panel are not the ones that will actually
> be used. They were just trying to fill the holes for the show. Let me
> know if you have any specific questions that I can answer and feel free
> to contact me offline if you want. I was looking at both the Chelton and
> OP Tech systems and had decided on the Chelton until the D2 problems.
> After Tony and I talked about and I did my own research I decided to use
> the OP Tech. Hoping for good things with the buy-out of OP Te!
> ch by Aerosonics. Besides if Deems was using them I knew he had done
> the homework.
>
> I will tell you that Tony, Eric and all the gang at Accuracy Avionics
> have been great to work with. I think they will ship the panel to me
> sometime this month. I wish I was really ready for it.
>
> dwayne@mid-westglass.com
>
> Dwayne Herring
> 40506
> QB Fuse
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137631#137631
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_2_183.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_1_183.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh |
That's true, I had forgotten about the buttons and knobs. Scratch that idea.
Best Regards,
Patrick #40715
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 6:02 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
I don't think that you can change the orientation. I sure would think that
a software change could change it though, but you would end up with the hard
keys and the knobs on the side of the box not the bottom.
Gary
40274
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick ONeill
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 3:42 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
Yup, I ordered back in July, and am now eagerly awaiting the resuming of
production by OP. Darn acquisition doldrums!
Do any of you other OP guys happen to know if you can change the screen
orientation (portrait vs. landscape) in the field or if it needs to be set
at the factory?
All these great OP panels and the waiting are causing me reconsider things
again and again.
Best Regards,
Patrick #40715
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
Patrick O'Neil has also ordered his OP Tech systems.
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together' http://deemsrv10.com/ gary
wrote:
>
> I too have an OP tech panel (integrated system) My math says that
> there are 3 of us, but I hear rumors of more folks that have chosen
> OP. If any of you are lurking, speak up and we can compare notes.
>
> Gary
> 40274
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 6:28 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
>
> -->
>
> Dwayne, great to have you surface like this. Your selections with the
> help of the gang at Accuracy adds another rung at climbing the ladder
> of RV-10s setting a new kit building standard.
>
> I too, think Deems has done his homework and look forward to his Phase
> I, fly off.
>
> Your panel is one of the top 10 in my book.
>
> John
> 40600
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dherring10
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 10:07 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Op Tech panel at Oshkosh
>
>
>
> George,
> I just saw your post about my panel Tony had in his booth at Oshkosh.
> John is correct that I am a lurker. Maybe when I actually have a flying
> airplane I will feel that I can give advice about building to others.
> Besides there have always been such good answers posted by the time I
> read the questions that in most instances I could not add anything. Tim
> Olsen has told me to respond anyway so maybe I'll start now. Here are a
> couple more pictures of my panel. Some of the items and switches Tony
> and Eric had installed on the panel are not the ones that will actually
> be used. They were just trying to fill the holes for the show. Let me
> know if you have any specific questions that I can answer and feel free
> to contact me offline if you want. I was looking at both the Chelton and
> OP Tech systems and had decided on the Chelton until the D2 problems.
> After Tony and I talked about and I did my own research I decided to use
> the OP Tech. Hoping for good things with the buy-out of OP Te!
> ch by Aerosonics. Besides if Deems was using them I knew he had done
> the homework.
>
> I will tell you that Tony, Eric and all the gang at Accuracy Avionics
> have been great to work with. I think they will ship the panel to me
> sometime this month. I wish I was really ready for it.
>
> dwayne@mid-westglass.com
>
> Dwayne Herring
> 40506
> QB Fuse
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137631#137631
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_2_183.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_1_183.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: QB fuselage floors |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
My Fuselage Kit shows up next week, so what's the reason you are pulling a floor
that has already been riveted in? It sounds like it has to be done because so
many have commented about it.
John
--------
#40572 Empennage done, starting QB Wings
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137818#137818
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com> |
| Subject: | Re: QB fuselage floors |
On mine, it was only temporarily/partially riveted with just a handful of
blind rivets per floor pan panel.
The main reason to pull the floor panels as I understand it, is for
inspection. So that you can verify that the QB assemblers did their job
correctly.
The access is also needed for priming and sound insulation (if you are doing
either of those) and it also helps with the conduit runs (which you could
probably do without pulling the floor pans, but as long as you have them
off, it seems much easier.) At least those are the reasons why I did it.
On my fuse and wings I found numerous little odd tasks buried in the plans
that were not done. I don't trust any plan step I can't visually verify.
Best Regards,
Patrick #40715
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 6:29 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: QB fuselage floors
-->
My Fuselage Kit shows up next week, so what's the reason you are pulling a
floor that has already been riveted in? It sounds like it has to be done
because so many have commented about it. John
--------
#40572 Empennage done, starting QB Wings
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137818#137818
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: To Prim or not to Prim |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
[quote="joe(at)rvbuildernet.com"]From: Joseph Rhodes [mailto:joe(at)rvbuildernet.com]
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:49 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: To Prim or not to Prim
New builder 40744 Joseph Rhodes
To Prim or not to Prim and with what
I live in Florida and with the humidity, salt air and for resale value I would
like to use a good primer
What are you builders using?
Any help would be appreciated
Thanks Joe
> [b]
Joe,
There have been plenty of primer wars going on for years. I agree with the others
that a search will give you all the answers you need.
Having said that (g), The 21st Century has produced lots of stuff that might work,
as well. I have decided to use ACF-50. My CAP Unit on Kauai uses it on every
annual. One plane is primered, the other isn't. They both seem just fine. I
don't prime anything unless Van stresses it, and then I only use a rattle can
of Zinc Oxide. The Chromate stuff is a known carcinogen and also destroys the
kidneys.
ACF-50 is a fairly new product that will remind you of WD-40. You spray it on.
I plan on fogging the plane with it right after everything is painted, and then
every year thereafter. Here is a website with a description of it:
http://www.corrosion-control.com/acf50.html
John
--------
#40572 Empennage done, starting QB Wings
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137824#137824
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Plane completion pictures |
| From: | "dherring10" <dherring10(at)suddenlink.net> |
What a great looking Airplane! I know you are proud of it.
I am not going to be able to go to LOE this year but If you need a place to stop
and take a break on your trip out there stop here in Midland (MDD) and I will
pick you up and buy you a meal.
Dwayne Herring
40506
QB Fuse
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137840#137840
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Deutsch" <deutscht(at)rhwhotels.com> |
If anyone knows someone who is looking for a completed 10 for sale
please have them contact me off line at deutscht(at)rhwhotels.com
Tom Deutsch Serial# 40545
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: QB fuselage floors |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
OK, now I understand. Would it also be handy for putting in Comm antennas underneath?
Maybe a sonogram would do but I wouldn't want to know it's sex... :D
--------
#40572 Empennage done, starting QB Wings
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137968#137968
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | VOR/LOC/GS antenna |
| From: | "Eric_Kallio" <scout019(at)msn.com> |
With some aircraft flying now what are your thoughts on an ILS capable antenna.
I was considering the Comant CI-158C as my #1 Nav and the archer wingtip as my
#2 (which is already installed). From what I found in the archives the ILS really
wasn't mentioned too much. What kind of feedback can you all provide on
this and are there any good installation pictures out there?
Eric Kallio
40518 Baggage floors
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137969#137969
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dogsbark(at)comcast.net |
Well....I know this has been covered before, but once again.
I am currently on business in Portland and finally got a chance to sneak down to
Van's for a look. It was the stereotypical Oregon day complete with cloud cover
and mist.
I walked through the door and waited for a couple of customers from France to complete
their transaction ahead of me. It was interesting to witness this as
a reminder of Van's international appeal.
My turn...I was greeted by Joe Blank. He had just completed a factory tour and
it was now lunchtime. I asked when it would be possible for me to get a tour
and without hesitation he said, how about now? Great!!! He said, "give me just
a minute" and I spoke with a couple that had arrived just after me in the
lobby. They were there to get a ride in the RV-12 with Van.
Joe showed me around and had great patience with all my questions and investigation
of the place. Very organized and that CNC sure is cool. Everyone was friendly.
I'm thankful it knows how to punch all those holes in the right spots.
I thanked Joe for the tour and he asked if I ever had a ride in the RV-10. I informed
him that I never even sat in an RV of any kind. I have been building
for over three years on my own project, and haven't even sat in my own. I have
been chipping away at my weight loss and promised myself once I crossed the
90 pound mark, I would reward myself. I finally got to this point and it was
time!
We went to the hangar and saw the awesome collection of factory RVs sitting there.
They must get a really good deal on yellow paint. A few minutes later we
had N410RV outside and my butt in the left seat. Lots of space and the visibility
is awesome.
Joe gave me the passenger briefing and we taxied out to the run up area for Runway
17. On the way there, Van's voice came across the headset anouncing his entry
to the downwind leg with the gentleman I met in the lobby while in the RV-12.
The wind was brisk at about 20 knots and right down the runway. Joe said we would
be off the ground easily within five hundred feet. He advanced the throttle
and I was thoroughly impressed as we rolled out quickly. The nose gear wanted
to get off right away and we were airborne shortly after that. The climb
out was amazing (2100 fpm) and I was shocked by it. The pitch seemed so steep,
I had to look at the ASI and VSI to see if we might stall. Up 'till now I have
been flying a 1974 Piper Warrior 151 as I earned my Private two months ago.
In Colorado Springs with high DA and a little fuel, normal climbout is 300-500
fpm. What a difference!
We flew for awhile staying just under the cloud cover enough for VFR. I was handed
the controls and had a blast at almost 200 mph in straight and level, then
doing 360 turns and finally some slow flight. Never flying a stick before was
interesting but easier to get used to than I thought.
We headed back to the strip and Joe took over. He pulled off a nice landing and
got to hear lots of chatter from me along the way to the hangar.
How blessed we are getting to have this much fun. I can't finish my project quickly
enough, but patience and endurance are necessary sometimes. Back to work
so I can buy an engine!
Sean Blair
#40225
Well....I know this has been covered before, but once again.
I am currently on business in Portland and finally got a chance to sneak down
to Van's for a look. It was the stereotypical Oregon day complete with
cloud cover and mist.
I walked through the door and waited for a couple of customers from France
to complete their transaction ahead of me. It was interesting to witness
this as a reminder of Van's international appeal.
My turn...I was greeted by Joe Blank. He had just completed a factory
tour and it was now lunchtime. I asked when it would be possible for me
to get a tour and without hesitation he said, how about now? Great!!!
He said, "give me just a minute" and I spoke with a couple that had arrived
just after me in the lobby. They were there to get a ride in the RV-12
with Van.
Joe showed me around and had great patience with all my questions and investigation
of the place. Very organized and that CNC sure is cool.
Everyone was friendly. I'm thankful it knows how to punch all those holes
in the right spots.
I thanked Joe for the tour and he asked if I ever had a ride in the RV-10.
I informed him that I never even sat in an RV of any kind.
I have been building for over three years on my own project, and haven't
even sat in my own. I have been chipping away at my weight loss and
promised myself once I crossed the 90 pound mark, I would reward myself.
I finally got to this point and it was time!
We went to the hangar and saw the awesome collection of factory RVs sitting
there. They must get a really good deal on yellow paint. A few minutes
later we had N410RV outside and my butt in the left seat. Lots
of space and the visibility is awesome.
Joe gave me the passenger briefing and we taxied out to the run up area for
Runway 17. On the way there, Van's voice came across the headset anouncing
his entry to the downwind leg with the gentleman I met in the lobby while
in the RV-12.
The wind was brisk at about 20 knots and right down the runway. Joe
said we would be off the ground easily within five hundred feet. He
advanced the throttle and I was thoroughly impressed as we rolled out quickly.
The nose gear wanted to get off right away and we were airborne shortly after
that. The climb out was amazing (2100 fpm) and I was shocked
by it. The pitch seemed so steep, I had to look at the ASI and VSI to
see if we might stall. Up 'till now I have been flying a 1974 Piper Warrior
151 as I earned my Private two months ago. In Colorado Springs
with high DA and a little fuel, normal climbout is 300-500 fpm.
What a difference!
We flew for awhile staying just under the cloud cover enough for
VFR. I was handed the controls and had a blast at almost 200 mph in straight
and level, then doing 360 turns and finally some slow flight. Never
flying a stick before was interesting but easier to get used to than
I thought.
We headed back to the strip and Joe took over. He pulled off
a nice landing and got to hear lots of chatter from me along the way to
the hangar.
How blessed we are getting to have this much fun. I can't finish
my project quickly enough, but patience and endurance are necessary sometimes.
Back to work so I can buy an engine!
Sean Blair
#40225
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Hanaway" <tomhanaway(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount |
Slightly different question re: removing floor panels in rv-10 quickbuilds.
Yes, they are tight to get out.
I don't see any way to remove the front floor panels without completely
removing the gear mounts. Priming has given me peace of mind but I'm having
a tough time figuring out how to get out the front floor panels without
significant removal of installed parts. Am I missing something?
Thanks.
Tom Hanaway
Boynton Beach, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)suddenlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Plane completion pictures |
Dwayne must really like Wayne's paint job. I gave Dwayne a ride in my
RV-10, even let him fly it and he didn't offer to buy me a meal. Or
maybe it was my Texas Tech paint job.
Russ Daves
From: "dherring10" <dherring10(at)suddenlink.net>
What a great looking Airplane! I know you are proud of it.
I am not going to be able to go to LOE this year but If you need a
place to stop
and take a break on your trip out there stop here in Midland (MDD)
and I will
pick you up and buy you a meal.
Dwayne Herring
40506
QB Fuse
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137840#137840
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald L Owen" <flywithowen(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | VOR/LOC/GS antenna |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | effectus(at)rogers.com |
| Subject: | Re: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount |
Tom,=0A=0AI had the same issue with the front floor pans. After I removed t
he gear weldments and completed all of the things I needed to do under the
floor pans I modified the floor pans to fit around the gear weldment. This
will make it exponentially easier in the future to get under there should I
need to.=0A=0AI modified them by cutting a triangular portion of the floor
pan away from the main section. This smaller portion is perminantly mounted
in around the weldment. To it, I riveted a strip of aluminum that I could
rivet the rest of the floor panel to. This way I can simply drill out the r
ivets along this line and be able to pull out the larger section.=0A=0AI ho
pe this makes sense. If you need more info or pictures just contact me off-
line.=0A=0ADave Hertner=0A40164 Wing Tips=0A=0A----- Original Message ----
=0AFrom: Tom Hanaway <tomhanaway(at)comcast.net>=0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
=0ASent: Thursday, October 4, 2007 5:58:51 AM=0ASubject: RV10-List: qb kit-
front floor panels removal and gear mount=0A=0A=0ASlightly different questi
on re: removing floor panels in rv-10 quickbuilds. Yes, they are tight to
get out.=0AI don=A2t see any way to remove the front floor panels without c
ompletely removing the gear mounts. Priming has given me peace of mind but
I=A2m having a tough time figuring out how to get out the front floor pane
ls without significant removal of installed parts. Am I missing something?
=================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount |
> Am I missing something?
No, I don't think you are. I found the jillion AN-3 bolts very hard
to remove; I got them out by pulling on the heads with a vise-grip
plier, and that damaged the heads. My solution was to cut off the
heads and grind and polish the the thread end to a bullet shape. The
resulting pins were lubed and used as guide pins for the installation
of new bolts. The install was a great deal easier than the removal;
the hard part was reaching some of the nuts. I remember wishing for a
long set of wrenches.
hope this helps
John Ackerman 40458
On Oct 4, 2007, at 2:58 AM, Tom Hanaway wrote:
> Slightly different question re: removing floor panels in rv-10
> quickbuilds. Yes, they are tight to get out.
>
> I don=92t see any way to remove the front floor panels without
> completely removing the gear mounts. Priming has given me peace of
> mind but I=92m having a tough time figuring out how to get out the
> front floor panels without significant removal of installed parts.
> Am I missing something?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Tom Hanaway
>
> Boynton Beach, FL
>
>
List
> ========================
> ========================
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com> |
| Subject: | qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount |
I spent a few days trying to figure out a way around tearing down all
that
assembly before resigning myself to it.
I actually had more problems with the screws on the side panels than the
bolts. Most were easy but a few became stripped despite my best
efforts.
Though the nuts and bolts for the seat pedestal panels and gear
weldements
were definitely no fun at all. I just kept telling myself that it was
still
faster than building it all from scratch. Eventually that helped a
little.
I just wish they did less of the things you need to undo and more of the
things that are more difficult to do after all the QB assembly.
Best Regards,
Patrick #40715
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Hanaway
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 2:59 AM
Subject: RV10-List: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount
Slightly different question re: removing floor panels in rv-10
quickbuilds.
Yes, they are tight to get out.
I don't see any way to remove the front floor panels without completely
removing the gear mounts. Priming has given me peace of mind but I'm
having
a tough time figuring out how to get out the front floor panels without
significant removal of installed parts. Am I missing something?
Thanks.
Tom Hanaway
Boynton Beach, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: VOR/LOC/GS antenna |
| From: | "Eric_Kallio" <scout019(at)msn.com> |
Do you have any pics of your cat whisker antenna install? I have been scanning
builders sites and haven't found any.
Eric Kallio
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138084#138084
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Plane completion pictures |
| From: | "dherring10" <dherring10(at)suddenlink.net> |
Boy, you talk about Whiney Hiney!
OK, OK any of you guys that have given me a ride can come to Midland
and collect your meal! How's that? Except that guy that has tt all over his plane.
Dwayne
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138085#138085
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: VOR/LOC/GS antenna |
| From: | "John Kirkland" <jskirkland(at)webpipe.net> |
Doug Reeves site vansairforce dot net had some pictures yesterday (Oct 3) that
show a RV-10 just out of the paint shop. Cat whiskers on the VS top rib just below
the rudder counterweight arm. Interesting.....
--------
RV-10 #40333
N540XP (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138106#138106
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Transition Training - was: battery cable routing |
Rick, First of all it was REALLY GOOD to be flying again ! I haven't
flown in 6 years and it was nice to be back at the controls, even with
all of the rust. One thing that did surprise me was the stall speeds.
The 1st thing that Mike did during the pre-brief was to point out that
the 'real' stall speeds were at least 10 mph higher than those published
by Ken Kreuger Vso in N220RV is 71-72 mph and Vs is 80. (the airspeed
indicator is mph). That was a bit of a shock as I had expected them to
be lower. On our second flight we went through all of the stall series
(I think Mike sensed my disbelief) and I confirmed 1st hand that the
speeds were indeed accurate for that plane. The good news is that the
plane really doesn't have a 'break' in the stall, it just sort of noses
a little lower and mushes ahead loosing altitude. I suppose if you
really accelerated the entry you could get a real stall. I noticed the
roll was more sensitive in the stalls, it was a little bumpy when we
flew, that and my rust may have contributed to what I experienced. I'd
love to hear from other flying their planes with respect to stall speeds
they experience.
Another thing is the rudder, it needs/uses the rudder on take off
(IO-360, wonder what the 540 will be like !?) but once in level air, I
was constantly over controlling with the rudder, most turns don't
require rudder. This took some adjusting for me. While we're on the
topic. Full Castering nose wheel steering was new to me. Took the 1st
day to adjust so that I could taxi in a straight line, at the end of the
3 days it wasn't an issue. On the same topic, Take-offs are a 2 part
affair. The first part was getting the nose wheel and the plane going
straight down the runway with partial power and 'toe-tapping' on the
brakes. Then come in with full power and the rudder shortly begins to
take effect.
Mike has you fly approaches @ 90 mph and because that's only 10 mph over
the clean stall speed he has you fly what I consider a fairly steep
approach. That took some getting used to for me. I believe he does this
and teaches this way for safety reasons, but with the outstanding view
the RV-10 has over the nose, the visual picture has a LOT of runway in
your face on short final. I found I was 'ground shy' and was initially
dropping the plane in from a foot or two too high. Mike teaches landings
as a 2 part affair. Part 1 is to break the decent and LEVEL the plane
off. Part 2 is to initiate a flair and dissipate energy and speed and
land.
This brings up the next point and that is elevator authority. N220RV had
NO balast in the rear when we flew. We initiated our approach with 20
degrees of flaps (second detent), Turning downwind we added full flaps.
With full flaps there is NOT enough trim to take the back pressure off
of the stick. I found that the back pressure was much more than I found
comfortable, and flew some landings with 2 hands! Makes it
difficult/impossible to develop a fingertip feel on landings. The other
item has been reported by several others and that is when landing it
takes the full aft movement of the stick. The topic has been discussed &
debated previously, but in my opinion with only 2 people and no
baggage/balast there is not enough elevator. Towards the end of 8.1
hours, I was able to get some of the rust scrubbed off, got a little
less shy about the rapidly approaching ground, and found a way to
'muscle' a couple of good landings. then Mike says " let me show you
something, .... we took another trip around the pattern flew exactly as
before only on our base leg after extending full flaps, he had me 'blip'
off a degree or two of flap at a time until the back pressure I'd grown
unaccustomed to holding was gone..... then flew the rest of the landing
!!!!! WOW!!! what a difference !!!!! Mike why did you keep this little
secret to the end??????? the plane landed almost identical to full
flaps, but the 'feel' was completely different and actually a joy!!!!!
Had a great visit w/ Ed Hayden, John Cox, Paul Grimstead, and John
Jensen while there. The Portland people really know how do do
hospitality! Ed's got the best equipped RV-10 under construction, if I
can encourage him to add the planned-for speed brakes and de-ice, I may
be able to finish before he does :-D
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
Rick Sked wrote:
>
> How did it go with Mike on the transistion training Deems?
>
> Rick S.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Transition Training - was: battery cable routing |
| From: | "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> |
Knowing Ed you would not have to push him to hard.....show him a shiny
object and he immediately tries to figure out how to modify it to fit on
the plane. Did he show you aft of the baggage bulkhead? I do not envy
him during his annual, told him he had to loose weight to fit back
there!
The 10 builders in Oregon are second to none and really make you feel
welcome when you get out there. That is not to say it is any different
in other locale's, just that it seems especially prevalent right near
Van's.
I can not wait to get out there for a homecoming and introduce my family
to the big Van's family that lives near the factory!
Dan
N289DT RV10E Flying
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Transition Training - was: battery cable routing
Rick, First of all it was REALLY GOOD to be flying again ! I haven't
flown in 6 years and it was nice to be back at the controls, even with
all of the rust. One thing that did surprise me was the stall speeds.
The 1st thing that Mike did during the pre-brief was to point out that
the 'real' stall speeds were at least 10 mph higher than those published
by Ken Kreuger Vso in N220RV is 71-72 mph and Vs is 80. (the airspeed
indicator is mph). That was a bit of a shock as I had expected them to
be lower. On our second flight we went through all of the stall series
(I think Mike sensed my disbelief) and I confirmed 1st hand that the
speeds were indeed accurate for that plane. The good news is that the
plane really doesn't have a 'break' in the stall, it just sort of noses
a little lower and mushes ahead loosing altitude. I suppose if you
really accelerated the entry you could get a real stall. I noticed the
roll was more sensitive in the stalls, it was a little bumpy when we
flew, that and my rust may have contributed to what I experienced. I'd
love to hear from other flying their planes with respect to stall speeds
they experience.
Another thing is the rudder, it needs/uses the rudder on take off
(IO-360, wonder what the 540 will be like !?) but once in level air, I
was constantly over controlling with the rudder, most turns don't
require rudder. This took some adjusting for me. While we're on the
topic. Full Castering nose wheel steering was new to me. Took the 1st
day to adjust so that I could taxi in a straight line, at the end of the
3 days it wasn't an issue. On the same topic, Take-offs are a 2 part
affair. The first part was getting the nose wheel and the plane going
straight down the runway with partial power and 'toe-tapping' on the
brakes. Then come in with full power and the rudder shortly begins to
take effect.
Mike has you fly approaches @ 90 mph and because that's only 10 mph over
the clean stall speed he has you fly what I consider a fairly steep
approach. That took some getting used to for me. I believe he does this
and teaches this way for safety reasons, but with the outstanding view
the RV-10 has over the nose, the visual picture has a LOT of runway in
your face on short final. I found I was 'ground shy' and was initially
dropping the plane in from a foot or two too high. Mike teaches landings
as a 2 part affair. Part 1 is to break the decent and LEVEL the plane
off. Part 2 is to initiate a flair and dissipate energy and speed and
land.
This brings up the next point and that is elevator authority. N220RV had
NO balast in the rear when we flew. We initiated our approach with 20
degrees of flaps (second detent), Turning downwind we added full flaps.
With full flaps there is NOT enough trim to take the back pressure off
of the stick. I found that the back pressure was much more than I found
comfortable, and flew some landings with 2 hands! Makes it
difficult/impossible to develop a fingertip feel on landings. The other
item has been reported by several others and that is when landing it
takes the full aft movement of the stick. The topic has been discussed &
debated previously, but in my opinion with only 2 people and no
baggage/balast there is not enough elevator. Towards the end of 8.1
hours, I was able to get some of the rust scrubbed off, got a little
less shy about the rapidly approaching ground, and found a way to
'muscle' a couple of good landings. then Mike says " let me show you
something, .... we took another trip around the pattern flew exactly as
before only on our base leg after extending full flaps, he had me 'blip'
off a degree or two of flap at a time until the back pressure I'd grown
unaccustomed to holding was gone..... then flew the rest of the landing
!!!!! WOW!!! what a difference !!!!! Mike why did you keep this little
secret to the end??????? the plane landed almost identical to full
flaps, but the 'feel' was completely different and actually a joy!!!!!
Had a great visit w/ Ed Hayden, John Cox, Paul Grimstead, and John
Jensen while there. The Portland people really know how do do
hospitality! Ed's got the best equipped RV-10 under construction, if I
can encourage him to add the planned-for speed brakes and de-ice, I may
be able to finish before he does :-D
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
Rick Sked wrote:
>
> How did it go with Mike on the transistion training Deems?
>
> Rick S.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: VOR/LOC/GS antenna |
FYI The SL-30 has NO provision for a seperate LOC/GS antenna. It has an
internal diplexor, if the aircraft has dual antennas, it requires they
be combined into a single input. Don;t know if this isi also true of
the other Garmin radios (430/480/580)
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
Kelly McMullen wrote:
> I'd say if you have enough signal to drive a VOR, the ILS will work
> fine on same antenna via a splitter. I'm currently running two
> navcoms, both with GS via one cat whisker antenna and splitters. Works
> fine.
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
> *
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: VOR/LOC/GS antenna |
| From: | pilotdds(at)aol.com |
The 430 has a provision for seperate gs/vor inputs.After much experimenting I used
a bowtie ant attached to the support strut inside the cabin. Excellent reception
on the ils for both localizer and g.s..---728DD.Wingtip archer ant. doesnt
do nearly as well and has areas of poor reception during vectors.
-----Original Message-----
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Sent: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 12:36 pm
Subject: Re: RV10-List: VOR/LOC/GS antenna
?
FYI The SL-30 has NO provision for a seperate LOC/GS antenna. It has an internal
diplexor, if the aircraft has dual antennas, it requires they be combined into
a single input. Don;t know if this isi also true of the other Garmin radios
(430/480/580)?
?
Deems Davis # 406?
'Its all done....Its just not put together'?
http://deemsrv10.com/?
?
Kelly McMullen wrote:?
> I'd say if you have enough signal to drive a VOR, the ILS will work > fine on
same antenna via a splitter. I'm currently running two > navcoms, both with GS
via one cat whisker antenna and splitters. Works > fine.?
>?
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List?
>?
> *?
>?
?
?
?
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | VOR/LOC/GS antenna |
The 430 is just the opposite, it has an input for the both Nav and GS. Need
a splitter if you only have one antenna.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
40322
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: VOR/LOC/GS antenna
FYI The SL-30 has NO provision for a seperate LOC/GS antenna. It has an
internal diplexor, if the aircraft has dual antennas, it requires they
be combined into a single input. Don;t know if this isi also true of
the other Garmin radios (430/480/580)
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
Kelly McMullen wrote:
> I'd say if you have enough signal to drive a VOR, the ILS will work
> fine on same antenna via a splitter. I'm currently running two
> navcoms, both with GS via one cat whisker antenna and splitters. Works
> fine.
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
> *
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternatives for Weld On 10? |
| From: | "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> |
Hello,
since Vans doesn't ship Weld-On 10 internationaly I wonder if you know of an alternative
product to glue the windows in.
Any ideas?
Michael
www.wellenzohn.net
--------
RV-10 builder (fuselage)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138139#138139
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternatives for Weld On 10? |
Flox - West system epoxy and cotton fiber, works great and doesn't set
up as fast as Weld-on.
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
Michael Wellenzohn wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> since Vans doesn't ship Weld-On 10 internationaly I wonder if you know of an
alternative product to glue the windows in.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Michael
>
> www.wellenzohn.net
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (fuselage)
> #511
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Alternatives for Weld On 10? |
A friend of mine used Sikaflex-296 UV for his RV-8. He avoided having to
drill any holes in his glass for rivets by using this product (not that we RV-10
builders have to drill the glass). It looks great and appears to do the job.
I've worked with it a little and it is so much easier to use than the
Weld-On that I used for my windows. But, I can't really make any solid
recommendations. You might try some of the other RV lists to see what the "consensus"
is
on this product.
_http://www.sikaindustry.com/ipd-ma-products.htm_
(http://www.sikaindustry.com/ipd-ma-products.htm)
-Jim
40134 - Will this annual inspection ever end?
In a message dated 10/4/2007 5:08:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Michael Wellenzohn"
Hello,
since Vans doesn't ship Weld-On 10 internationaly I wonder if you know of an
alternative product to glue the windows in.
Any ideas?
Michael
www.wellenzohn.net
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
_http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | VOR/LOC/GS antenna |
Why not a simple wire or copper tape dipole antenna in the bottom half of
the cowl? Easy, cheap, and for all practical applications just as effective
as any other antenna. If you don't want to use a VOR/GS splitter you can
put in two.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (350 hrs)
RV-10 (wings)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 4:16 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: VOR/LOC/GS antenna
The 430 is just the opposite, it has an input for the both Nav and GS. Need
a splitter if you only have one antenna.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
40322
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: VOR/LOC/GS antenna
FYI The SL-30 has NO provision for a seperate LOC/GS antenna. It has an
internal diplexor, if the aircraft has dual antennas, it requires they
be combined into a single input. Don;t know if this isi also true of
the other Garmin radios (430/480/580)
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
Kelly McMullen wrote:
> I'd say if you have enough signal to drive a VOR, the ILS will work
> fine on same antenna via a splitter. I'm currently running two
> navcoms, both with GS via one cat whisker antenna and splitters. Works
> fine.
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
> *
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternatives for Weld On 10? |
| From: | "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> |
I did my first window the other day using this method. Haven't finished
(need to lay the glass around the perimeter) but this was the procedure
that was recommended to install windows so you don't get any cracking
around the edge. Seems to work good. So far no cracking :-) (not
flying) cj
As provided by David:
Although the procedure takes only about an hour to accomplish per
window, setup and planning is substantially more.. I recommend that you
do one window to get the procs correct and plan to do the windshield on
a day by itself.
(0) tape off the inside and outside flange area of the window using 3M
Fineline (.5 width)
(1) then signstrip blue on the center areas to protect the inside and
outside of the window . Be generous when painting it on as this makes it
easy to pull off.
(2) sand the inside/outside edges of the window in the area of the
flange to roughen the glass for adhesion.
(3) sand the flanges of the lid; CLEAN ALL SANDED EDGES WITH ACETONE
(4) prepare a set of aluminum "fingers" . Strips of .080 1" by 3" ; with
a slight bend in the center. one end gets a #30 hole and the other is
adequately taped. each is numbered. See the picture.
(5) Trim the window to fit the frame and temporarily hold in place with
the NUMBERED "fingers". Clecoes should be place about .50" outside the
window. Drill #30 only through the external layer; NOT THROUGH THE LID.
RETAPE OFF THE EDGES 3M FINELINE TAPE .
(6) prepare a mixture of epoxy with chopped fibers and cabosil.
Consistency should be peanut butter. Potlife should plan to be 30-40
minutes. We refrigerated it to further slow the cure.
(7) putty the lid flanges, wet the window flanges with a small amount of
catalyzed epoxy and place window in frame; holding in place with
"fingers" at the preplanned locations.
(8) inside person should be wiping excess putty away with a 50-50
mixture of mineral spirirts and acetone; outside person should be
smoothing putty on outside flange. excess will be sanded off later. then
PULL THE TAPES BEFORE IT CURES.
(9) allow to cure 24 hours.
(10) Inside lid , flange should be finished . If rough, tape glass and
sand lightly.
(11) outside the lid, RETAPE the edge at the flange line, then cover the
flange with two 1" layers of glass (E-7782?). (Note this was the Glastar
procedure.) Remember to pull the tape before the layered glass sets up.
The windscreen on the RV10 requires a different layering of glass on the
aluminum.
(12) Retape the edge , then sand and fill external flange area for
paint. The sanding can feather into the edge of the tape.
(13) when painted , paint should cover the flange.
(14) MUST BE DONE BEFORE THE MIXTURE CURES. If you accidentally get
epoxy on the Plexiglas during the process, it can be safely removed
using a clean cloth and the 50-50 mixture of mineral spirits and
acetone. Have it handy.
(15) 50-50 mixture is also good for removing any signstrip that does not
come off when finally removing the protective covering before flight.
to
and
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <toaster73(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Columbia Aircraft Maintenance Manual |
I was surfing around looking for an education on general electrical
systems and any other GA aircraft info that has some "authority" and
found that one can download the maintenance manual for the Columbia
models 300, and 350. Good stuff about all the Garmin goodies and all the
systems of a certified airplane. Also an interesting tidbit about window
replacement and paint cracks. Generally good free information. Plenty to
read if you never have seen this type of manual.
-Chris Lucas
#40072 Finish on route
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VOR/LOC/GS antenna |
The 480 has the same setup as the SL-30, internal diplexer, I suspect the 430 and
530 are too. It's nice because I used a comant spliter on my Nav antenna and
sent one lead to each, my 480 and the SL-30. I may add the V antenna to the
tail if the performance is below par...we shall see. Everyone else using the setup
has no complaints so I should be good to go.
Rick S.
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2007 12:36:26 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: Re: RV10-List: VOR/LOC/GS antenna
FYI The SL-30 has NO provision for a seperate LOC/GS antenna. It has an
internal diplexor, if the aircraft has dual antennas, it requires they
be combined into a single input. Don;t know if this isi also true of
the other Garmin radios (430/480/580)
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
Kelly McMullen wrote:
> I'd say if you have enough signal to drive a VOR, the ILS will work
> fine on same antenna via a splitter. I'm currently running two
> navcoms, both with GS via one cat whisker antenna and splitters. Works
> fine.
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
> *
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | icom ic-210 group buy |
In the socal RVlist someone posted a group buy going on. For anyone
interested thought I would pass on.
ICOM A210 group buy happening on VAF @
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=21312Mark
Pascal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | LoPresti HID landing light kit |
| From: | "dmaib(at)mac.com" <dmaib(at)mac.com> |
I am attempting to install the LoPresti wingtip landing light kit and I also have
SafeAir1 tip tanks. I would like to talk with anyone is has succesfully installed
this combination.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138227#138227
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: QB fuselage floors |
| From: | "dmaib(at)mac.com" <dmaib(at)mac.com> |
Thanks to all for the tips. I have been out of town and will now know how to approach
this when I get home.
Once again, this list is priceless.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138228#138228
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VOR/LOC/GS antenna |
Yeah, I know. I still am in the world of equipment designed in the '80s
like KX155 and MK12D that all took separate nav and gs antenna inputs.
Many of the panels discussed here have more $$ involved than I have in
my current aircraft(that is well equipped with steam guages 90s stuff).
Deems Davis wrote:
>
> FYI The SL-30 has NO provision for a seperate LOC/GS antenna. It has
> an internal diplexor, if the aircraft has dual antennas, it requires
> they be combined into a single input. Don;t know if this isi also
> true of the other Garmin radios (430/480/580)
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> 'Its all done....Its just not put together'
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>> I'd say if you have enough signal to drive a VOR, the ILS will work
>> fine on same antenna via a splitter. I'm currently running two
>> navcoms, both with GS via one cat whisker antenna and splitters.
>> Works fine.
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>
>> *
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternatives for Weld On 10? |
| From: | "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> |
Don't know if they ship internationally but here is an alternative supplier.
http://www.rplastics.com/weldon10.html
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
-------- Original Message --------
>
>
> Hello,
>
> since Vans doesn't ship Weld-On 10 internationaly I wonder if you know of an
alternative product to glue the windows in.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Michael
>
> www.wellenzohn.net
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (fuselage)
> #511
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternatives for Weld On 10? |
| From: | "nick(at)nleonard.com" <nick(at)nleonard.com> |
Two questions - Jesse, how much of the FE6026 is required for the five windows?
More than the one pint?
Jim, a friend of mine used the SikaFlex on his GlaStar and loved it (his windows
really look great) but he recommended against using it because SikaFlex requires
a 3/16" bed between the window and the base. We just don't have that much
depth on the -10. Otherwise, I think it would be a perfect, cost effective,
solution.
--------
Nick Leonard
RV-10 (40015) Finish
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138238#138238
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternatives for Weld On 10? |
Michael,
hundreds of GlaStar did use Silpruf SCS 2000
<http://kbam.geampod.com/KBAM/Reflection/Assets/10412_3.pdf> however you
can not paint that stuff and the GlaStar has a steel cage so it does not
need to be structural. Before that area the recommended to glue it in
with Vinylester, meanwhile that has changed to Silpruf. Jim's
recomendation below looks good to and it's easy available in
Switzerland, tensile strengths is better then Silpruf (Weld On has a bit
a vague value (bond strength) here the details for the Sikaflex
<http://chindustry.webdms.sika.com/fileshow.do?id=151>
I have a detailed process for the Silpruf window process to get a nice
result which I believe could be adapted for Sika too, the Sikaflex just
hardens a bit faster so you need to take that into account.
br Werner
JSMcGrew(at)aol.com wrote:
> A friend of mine used Sikaflex-296 UV for his RV-8. He avoided
> having to drill any holes in his glass for rivets by using this
> product (not that we RV-10 builders have to drill the glass). It looks
> great and appears to do the job. I've worked with it a little and it
> is so much easier to use than the Weld-On that I used for my windows.
> But, I can't really make any solid recommendations. You might try some
> of the other RV lists to see what the "consensus" is on this product.
>
> http://www.sikaindustry.com/ipd-ma-products.htm
>
> -Jim
> 40134 - Will this annual inspection ever end?
>
>
>
> In a message dated 10/4/2007 5:08:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net writes:
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> since Vans doesn't ship Weld-On 10 internationaly I wonder if you
> know of an alternative product to glue the windows in.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Michael
>
> www.wellenzohn.net
>
>
> Jim "Scooter" McGrew
> http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew
>
>
> See what's new at AOL.com and .
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternatives for Weld On 10? |
Probably the 555 which is for automotive applications would be suitable
too, same tensile strengths then the 296 tear propagation even higher
and bed can be down to 3/64"
Werner
nick(at)nleonard.com wrote:
>
> Two questions - Jesse, how much of the FE6026 is required for the five windows?
More than the one pint?
>
> Jim, a friend of mine used the SikaFlex on his GlaStar and loved it (his windows
really look great) but he recommended against using it because SikaFlex requires
a 3/16" bed between the window and the base. We just don't have that much
depth on the -10. Otherwise, I think it would be a perfect, cost effective,
solution.
>
> --------
> Nick Leonard
> RV-10 (40015) Finish
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138238#138238
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Henkjan van der Zouw <henkjan(at)zme.nl> |
| Subject: | Alternatives for Weld On 10? |
Hi Michael,
I ordered it with no problem at Van's, what is their argument for not
shipping it anymore?
Henkjan
#40355
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] Namens Michael Wellenzohn
Verzonden: donderdag 4 oktober 2007 23:06
Aan: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Onderwerp: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
Hello,
since Vans doesn't ship Weld-On 10 internationaly I wonder if you know
of an alternative product to glue the windows in.
Any ideas?
Michael
www.wellenzohn.net
--------
RV-10 builder (fuselage)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138139#138139
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternatives for Weld On 10? |
| From: | "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> |
Wow,
thanks for all your helpful reply. I'll do some more research based on your input.
Henkjan on their website its says below the Weld-On 10
"This item cannot be shipped internationally. Please contact the manufacturers
for availablility in your location."
Davids way surly is good but seems to be quite an undertaking. Is the weld-on route
really likely to produce cracks?
Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (fuselage)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138246#138246
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: QB fuselage floors |
Just to round out opinions and possibly to speak for a silent few, I am
not pulling the floors on my #40605.
dmaib(at)mac.com wrote:
>
> Thanks to all for the tips. I have been out of town and will now know how to
approach this when I get home.
> Once again, this list is priceless.
>
> --------
> David Maib
> RV-10 #40559
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138228#138228
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternatives for Weld On 10? |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Whoa, Chris
Every now and then, I mention the wealth of information that has been
posted by Tim Olson and our RV-10 University archives. It seems so
tragic that the mistakes of a few can be repeatedly resurfaced due to
avoiding a read.
For those who chose to be research impaired, here is a post
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/maintenance/plexi/Care_of_Plexi.pdf
For those who need a picture - see attached.
Before using ACETONE. Understand that it is a great solvent, faster
than Isopropyl Alcohol, slower than MEK and leaves a residual. Is great
for cleaning composites prior to bonding skins together. When used on
Plexiglas, Lexan or Acrylic (aircraft windows) it dehydrates natural
lubricants which inhibit crazing.
Go ask an aircraft window supplier what they think is the consequence of
ACETONE touching your windows. They are a real bitch to replace. It
would be unfortunate not to revisit this subject. Also, Jesse has never
shared his process for replacement of that damaged windscreen and the
adhesion of it to the aircraft during initial construction and
windshield replacement procedure. First time builders would love to
know.
Sorry Chris, your enthusiasm can sometimes overwhelm us old fogeys. I
will stand by my source of LP Plastics. Fifth paragraph Third
sentence.
Been there, done that, won't ever, ever consider it again - whoever
David is "as provided".
John - not worth more than $00.02
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Johnston
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 4:55 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
I did my first window the other day using this method. Haven't finished
(need to lay the glass around the perimeter) but this was the procedure
that was recommended to install windows so you don't get any cracking
around the edge. Seems to work good. So far no cracking :-) (not
flying) cj
As provided by David:
Although the procedure takes only about an hour to accomplish per
window, setup and planning is substantially more.. I recommend that you
do one window to get the procs correct and plan to do the windshield on
a day by itself.
(0) tape off the inside and outside flange area of the window using 3M
Fineline (.5 width)
(1) then signstrip blue on the center areas to protect the inside and
outside of the window . Be generous when painting it on as this makes it
easy to pull off.
(2) sand the inside/outside edges of the window in the area of the
flange to roughen the glass for adhesion.
(3) sand the flanges of the lid; CLEAN ALL SANDED EDGES WITH ACETONE
(4) prepare a set of aluminum "fingers" . Strips of .080 1" by 3" ; with
a slight bend in the center. one end gets a #30 hole and the other is
adequately taped. each is numbered. See the picture.
(5) Trim the window to fit the frame and temporarily hold in place with
the NUMBERED "fingers". Clecoes should be place about .50" outside the
window. Drill #30 only through the external layer; NOT THROUGH THE LID.
RETAPE OFF THE EDGES 3M FINELINE TAPE .
(6) prepare a mixture of epoxy with chopped fibers and cabosil.
Consistency should be peanut butter. Potlife should plan to be 30-40
minutes. We refrigerated it to further slow the cure.
(7) putty the lid flanges, wet the window flanges with a small amount of
catalyzed epoxy and place window in frame; holding in place with
"fingers" at the preplanned locations.
(8) inside person should be wiping excess putty away with a 50-50
mixture of mineral spirirts and acetone; outside person should be
smoothing putty on outside flange. excess will be sanded off later. then
PULL THE TAPES BEFORE IT CURES.
(9) allow to cure 24 hours.
(10) Inside lid , flange should be finished . If rough, tape glass and
sand lightly.
(11) outside the lid, RETAPE the edge at the flange line, then cover the
flange with two 1" layers of glass (E-7782?). (Note this was the Glastar
procedure.) Remember to pull the tape before the layered glass sets up.
The windscreen on the RV10 requires a different layering of glass on the
aluminum.
(12) Retape the edge , then sand and fill external flange area for
paint. The sanding can feather into the edge of the tape.
(13) when painted , paint should cover the flange.
(14) MUST BE DONE BEFORE THE MIXTURE CURES. If you accidentally get
epoxy on the Plexiglas during the process, it can be safely removed
using a clean cloth and the 50-50 mixture of mineral spirits and
acetone. Have it handy.
(15) 50-50 mixture is also good for removing any signstrip that does not
come off when finally removing the protective covering before flight.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Alternatives for Weld On 10? |
Does anyone have a lead on the Satinal Pad mentioned in John's article. A
couple of searches did not produce a supplier.
Gary
40274
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 11:20 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
Whoa, Chris
Every now and then, I mention the wealth of information that has been posted
by Tim Olson and our RV-10 University archives. It seems so tragic that the
mistakes of a few can be repeatedly resurfaced due to avoiding a read.
For those who chose to be research impaired, here is a post
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/maintenance/plexi/Care_of_Plexi.pdf
For those who need a picture - see attached.
Before using ACETONE. Understand that it is a great solvent, faster than
Isopropyl Alcohol, slower than MEK and leaves a residual. Is great for
cleaning composites prior to bonding skins together. When used on
Plexiglas, Lexan or Acrylic (aircraft windows) it dehydrates natural
lubricants which inhibit crazing.
Go ask an aircraft window supplier what they think is the consequence of
ACETONE touching your windows. They are a real bitch to replace. It would
be unfortunate not to revisit this subject. Also, Jesse has never shared
his process for replacement of that damaged windscreen and the adhesion of
it to the aircraft during initial construction and windshield replacement
procedure. First time builders would love to know.
Sorry Chris, your enthusiasm can sometimes overwhelm us old fogeys. I will
stand by my source of LP Plastics. Fifth paragraph Third sentence.
Been there, done that, won't ever, ever consider it again - whoever David is
"as provided".
John - not worth more than $00.02
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 4:55 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
I did my first window the other day using this method. Haven't finished
(need to lay the glass around the perimeter) but this was the procedure that
was recommended to install windows so you don't get any cracking around the
edge. Seems to work good. So far no cracking :-) (not flying) cj
As provided by David:
Although the procedure takes only about an hour to accomplish per window,
setup and planning is substantially more.. I recommend that you do one
window to get the procs correct and plan to do the windshield on a day by
itself.
(0) tape off the inside and outside flange area of the window using 3M
Fineline (.5 width)
(1) then signstrip blue on the center areas to protect the inside and
outside of the window . Be generous when painting it on as this makes it
easy to pull off.
(2) sand the inside/outside edges of the window in the area of the flange to
roughen the glass for adhesion.
(3) sand the flanges of the lid; CLEAN ALL SANDED EDGES WITH ACETONE
(4) prepare a set of aluminum "fingers" . Strips of .080 1" by 3" ; with a
slight bend in the center. one end gets a #30 hole and the other is
adequately taped. each is numbered. See the picture.
(5) Trim the window to fit the frame and temporarily hold in place with the
NUMBERED "fingers". Clecoes should be place about .50" outside the window.
Drill #30 only through the external layer; NOT THROUGH THE LID. RETAPE OFF
THE EDGES 3M FINELINE TAPE .
(6) prepare a mixture of epoxy with chopped fibers and cabosil. Consistency
should be peanut butter. Potlife should plan to be 30-40 minutes. We
refrigerated it to further slow the cure.
(7) putty the lid flanges, wet the window flanges with a small amount of
catalyzed epoxy and place window in frame; holding in place with "fingers"
at the preplanned locations.
(8) inside person should be wiping excess putty away with a 50-50 mixture of
mineral spirirts and acetone; outside person should be smoothing putty on
outside flange. excess will be sanded off later. then PULL THE TAPES BEFORE
IT CURES.
(9) allow to cure 24 hours.
(10) Inside lid , flange should be finished . If rough, tape glass and sand
lightly.
(11) outside the lid, RETAPE the edge at the flange line, then cover the
flange with two 1" layers of glass (E-7782?). (Note this was the Glastar
procedure.) Remember to pull the tape before the layered glass sets up. The
windscreen on the RV10 requires a different layering of glass on the
aluminum.
(12) Retape the edge , then sand and fill external flange area for paint.
The sanding can feather into the edge of the tape.
(13) when painted , paint should cover the flange.
(14) MUST BE DONE BEFORE THE MIXTURE CURES. If you accidentally get epoxy on
the Plexiglas during the process, it can be safely removed using a clean
cloth and the 50-50 mixture of mineral spirits and acetone. Have it handy.
(15) 50-50 mixture is also good for removing any signstrip that does not
come off when finally removing the protective covering before flight.
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
<http://forums.matronics.com> http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternatives for Weld On 10? |
| From: | "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> |
Ouch. That email had a bit of a barb in it eh? Oh well, I appreciate
the information, and it is timely as well. I'll stick to straight
mineral spirits I guess. And hope that the first window I did that way
doesn't cause me to come tumbling out of the sky. :-)
John, while I appreciate the excellent info and resources that you offer
to us over-enthusiastic types, I feel that possibly this type of
response, while informative and very very helpful, could possibly lead
other builders with thinner skin to not post questions at all. Just a
thought. I'm sure glad I opened my mouth, because I got some good
information out of doing so. And I'm equally sure that you didn't
intend your email to be as pointy as it sounded on first read.
Anyway, I'll keep asking all the idiot questions I can think of, and you
"old fogeys" will hopefully keep setting me straight!
cj
(research-impaired and overly enthusiastic)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 9:20 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
Whoa, Chris
Every now and then, I mention the wealth of information that has been
posted by Tim Olson and our RV-10 University archives. It seems so
tragic that the mistakes of a few can be repeatedly resurfaced due to
avoiding a read.
For those who chose to be research impaired, here is a post
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/maintenance/plexi/Care_of_Plexi.pdf
For those who need a picture - see attached.
Before using ACETONE. Understand that it is a great solvent, faster
than Isopropyl Alcohol, slower than MEK and leaves a residual. Is great
for cleaning composites prior to bonding skins together. When used on
Plexiglas, Lexan or Acrylic (aircraft windows) it dehydrates natural
lubricants which inhibit crazing.
Go ask an aircraft window supplier what they think is the consequence of
ACETONE touching your windows. They are a real bitch to replace. It
would be unfortunate not to revisit this subject. Also, Jesse has never
shared his process for replacement of that damaged windscreen and the
adhesion of it to the aircraft during initial construction and
windshield replacement procedure. First time builders would love to
know.
Sorry Chris, your enthusiasm can sometimes overwhelm us old fogeys. I
will stand by my source of LP Plastics. Fifth paragraph Third
sentence.
Been there, done that, won't ever, ever consider it again - whoever
David is "as provided".
John - not worth more than $00.02
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Johnston
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 4:55 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
I did my first window the other day using this method. Haven't finished
(need to lay the glass around the perimeter) but this was the procedure
that was recommended to install windows so you don't get any cracking
around the edge. Seems to work good. So far no cracking :-) (not
flying) cj
As provided by David:
Although the procedure takes only about an hour to accomplish per
window, setup and planning is substantially more.. I recommend that you
do one window to get the procs correct and plan to do the windshield on
a day by itself.
(0) tape off the inside and outside flange area of the window using 3M
Fineline (.5 width)
(1) then signstrip blue on the center areas to protect the inside and
outside of the window . Be generous when painting it on as this makes it
easy to pull off.
(2) sand the inside/outside edges of the window in the area of the
flange to roughen the glass for adhesion.
(3) sand the flanges of the lid; CLEAN ALL SANDED EDGES WITH ACETONE
(4) prepare a set of aluminum "fingers" . Strips of .080 1" by 3" ; with
a slight bend in the center. one end gets a #30 hole and the other is
adequately taped. each is numbered. See the picture.
(5) Trim the window to fit the frame and temporarily hold in place with
the NUMBERED "fingers". Clecoes should be place about .50" outside the
window. Drill #30 only through the external layer; NOT THROUGH THE LID.
RETAPE OFF THE EDGES 3M FINELINE TAPE .
(6) prepare a mixture of epoxy with chopped fibers and cabosil.
Consistency should be peanut butter. Potlife should plan to be 30-40
minutes. We refrigerated it to further slow the cure.
(7) putty the lid flanges, wet the window flanges with a small amount of
catalyzed epoxy and place window in frame; holding in place with
"fingers" at the preplanned locations.
(8) inside person should be wiping excess putty away with a 50-50
mixture of mineral spirirts and acetone; outside person should be
smoothing putty on outside flange. excess will be sanded off later. then
PULL THE TAPES BEFORE IT CURES.
(9) allow to cure 24 hours.
(10) Inside lid , flange should be finished . If rough, tape glass and
sand lightly.
(11) outside the lid, RETAPE the edge at the flange line, then cover the
flange with two 1" layers of glass (E-7782?). (Note this was the Glastar
procedure.) Remember to pull the tape before the layered glass sets up.
The windscreen on the RV10 requires a different layering of glass on the
aluminum.
(12) Retape the edge , then sand and fill external flange area for
paint. The sanding can feather into the edge of the tape.
(13) when painted , paint should cover the flange.
(14) MUST BE DONE BEFORE THE MIXTURE CURES. If you accidentally get
epoxy on the Plexiglas during the process, it can be safely removed
using a clean cloth and the 50-50 mixture of mineral spirits and
acetone. Have it handy.
(15) 50-50 mixture is also good for removing any signstrip that does not
come off when finally removing the protective covering before flight.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternatives for Weld On 10? |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
No, the barb was for whoever "as provided by David" is... that led you
astray down that ACETONE path to a replacement window.
There are lots to kudos to be said for the thankless investment of time
that Tim has invested. "Thanks again Tim!" So future builders do not
stub their toes on the same rocks along Life's Highway.
Now if only Jesse will share the pictures, techniques and advise he has
gleaned from repairing that accident on one of his fleet of aircraft..
Anyone remember the Columbia blade through the front window, Aye?
If we can't share, then I guess having 975+ lurkers may just be a good
thing after all. Hopefully there will be at least one builder who
doesn't get crazing of the glass due to harmful chemical contact.
Chris - keep up the enthusiasm, it can be contagious. I get lots of
great ideas from your progress and experimentation. I am even looking
at a CNC mill after those Kitplane articles and your efforts.
John
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Johnston
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 11:01 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
Ouch. That email had a bit of a barb in it eh? Oh well, I appreciate
the information, and it is timely as well. I'll stick to straight
mineral spirits I guess. And hope that the first window I did that way
doesn't cause me to come tumbling out of the sky. :-)
John, while I appreciate the excellent info and resources that you offer
to us over-enthusiastic types, I feel that possibly this type of
response, while informative and very very helpful, could possibly lead
other builders with thinner skin to not post questions at all. Just a
thought. I'm sure glad I opened my mouth, because I got some good
information out of doing so. And I'm equally sure that you didn't
intend your email to be as pointy as it sounded on first read.
Anyway, I'll keep asking all the idiot questions I can think of, and you
"old fogeys" will hopefully keep setting me straight!
cj
(research-impaired and overly enthusiastic)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 9:20 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
Whoa, Chris
Every now and then, I mention the wealth of information that has been
posted by Tim Olson and our RV-10 University archives. It seems so
tragic that the mistakes of a few can be repeatedly resurfaced due to
avoiding a read.
For those who chose to be research impaired, here is a post
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/maintenance/plexi/Care_of_Plexi.pdf
For those who need a picture - see attached.
Before using ACETONE. Understand that it is a great solvent, faster
than Isopropyl Alcohol, slower than MEK and leaves a residual. Is great
for cleaning composites prior to bonding skins together. When used on
Plexiglas, Lexan or Acrylic (aircraft windows) it dehydrates natural
lubricants which inhibit crazing.
Go ask an aircraft window supplier what they think is the consequence of
ACETONE touching your windows. They are a real bitch to replace. It
would be unfortunate not to revisit this subject. Also, Jesse has never
shared his process for replacement of that damaged windscreen and the
adhesion of it to the aircraft during initial construction and
windshield replacement procedure. First time builders would love to
know.
Sorry Chris, your enthusiasm can sometimes overwhelm us old fogeys. I
will stand by my source of LP Plastics. Fifth paragraph Third
sentence.
Been there, done that, won't ever, ever consider it again - whoever
David is "as provided".
John - not worth more than $00.02
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Johnston
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 4:55 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
I did my first window the other day using this method. Haven't finished
(need to lay the glass around the perimeter) but this was the procedure
that was recommended to install windows so you don't get any cracking
around the edge. Seems to work good. So far no cracking :-) (not
flying) cj
As provided by David:
Although the procedure takes only about an hour to accomplish per
window, setup and planning is substantially more.. I recommend that you
do one window to get the procs correct and plan to do the windshield on
a day by itself.
(0) tape off the inside and outside flange area of the window using 3M
Fineline (.5 width)
(1) then signstrip blue on the center areas to protect the inside and
outside of the window . Be generous when painting it on as this makes it
easy to pull off.
(2) sand the inside/outside edges of the window in the area of the
flange to roughen the glass for adhesion.
(3) sand the flanges of the lid; CLEAN ALL SANDED EDGES WITH ACETONE
(4) prepare a set of aluminum "fingers" . Strips of .080 1" by 3" ; with
a slight bend in the center. one end gets a #30 hole and the other is
adequately taped. each is numbered. See the picture.
(5) Trim the window to fit the frame and temporarily hold in place with
the NUMBERED "fingers". Clecoes should be place about .50" outside the
window. Drill #30 only through the external layer; NOT THROUGH THE LID.
RETAPE OFF THE EDGES 3M FINELINE TAPE .
(6) prepare a mixture of epoxy with chopped fibers and cabosil.
Consistency should be peanut butter. Potlife should plan to be 30-40
minutes. We refrigerated it to further slow the cure.
(7) putty the lid flanges, wet the window flanges with a small amount of
catalyzed epoxy and place window in frame; holding in place with
"fingers" at the preplanned locations.
(8) inside person should be wiping excess putty away with a 50-50
mixture of mineral spirirts and acetone; outside person should be
smoothing putty on outside flange. excess will be sanded off later. then
PULL THE TAPES BEFORE IT CURES.
(9) allow to cure 24 hours.
(10) Inside lid , flange should be finished . If rough, tape glass and
sand lightly.
(11) outside the lid, RETAPE the edge at the flange line, then cover the
flange with two 1" layers of glass (E-7782?). (Note this was the Glastar
procedure.) Remember to pull the tape before the layered glass sets up.
The windscreen on the RV10 requires a different layering of glass on the
aluminum.
(12) Retape the edge , then sand and fill external flange area for
paint. The sanding can feather into the edge of the tape.
(13) when painted , paint should cover the flange.
(14) MUST BE DONE BEFORE THE MIXTURE CURES. If you accidentally get
epoxy on the Plexiglas during the process, it can be safely removed
using a clean cloth and the 50-50 mixture of mineral spirits and
acetone. Have it handy.
(15) 50-50 mixture is also good for removing any signstrip that does not
come off when finally removing the protective covering before flight.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternatives for Weld On 10? |
I am the David and I did not suggest using acetone on any part of the
window that is a vieiwing area. All veiwing ares were protected with
signprint.The window flanges were scuffed and cleaned with acetone. and
excess resin (when installing) was cleaned up with a 50/50 mixture of
mineral spirits and acetone. The procedeure I relayed is a procedure
that Phoenix Composities has been using on Glasairs and lancairs for
years with good results..
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Cox
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 11:27 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
No, the barb was for whoever "as provided by David" is. that led you
astray down that ACETONE path to a replacement window.
There are lots to kudos to be said for the thankless investment of
time that Tim has invested. "Thanks again Tim!" So future builders do
not stub their toes on the same rocks along Life's Highway.
Now if only Jesse will share the pictures, techniques and advise he
has gleaned from repairing that accident on one of his fleet of
aircraft.. Anyone remember the Columbia blade through the front window,
Aye?
If we can't share, then I guess having 975+ lurkers may just be a good
thing after all. Hopefully there will be at least one builder who
doesn't get crazing of the glass due to harmful chemical contact.
Chris - keep up the enthusiasm, it can be contagious. I get lots of
great ideas from your progress and experimentation. I am even looking
at a CNC mill after those Kitplane articles and your efforts.
John
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Johnston
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 11:01 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
Ouch. That email had a bit of a barb in it eh? Oh well, I appreciate
the information, and it is timely as well. I'll stick to straight
mineral spirits I guess. And hope that the first window I did that way
doesn't cause me to come tumbling out of the sky. J
John, while I appreciate the excellent info and resources that you
offer to us over-enthusiastic types, I feel that possibly this type of
response, while informative and very very helpful, could possibly lead
other builders with thinner skin to not post questions at all. Just a
thought. I'm sure glad I opened my mouth, because I got some good
information out of doing so. And I'm equally sure that you didn't
intend your email to be as pointy as it sounded on first read.
Anyway, I'll keep asking all the idiot questions I can think of, and
you "old fogeys" will hopefully keep setting me straight!
cj
(research-impaired and overly enthusiastic)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 9:20 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
Whoa, Chris
Every now and then, I mention the wealth of information that has been
posted by Tim Olson and our RV-10 University archives. It seems so
tragic that the mistakes of a few can be repeatedly resurfaced due to
avoiding a read.
For those who chose to be research impaired, here is a post
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/maintenance/plexi/Care_of_Plexi.pdf
For those who need a picture - see attached.
Before using ACETONE. Understand that it is a great solvent, faster
than Isopropyl Alcohol, slower than MEK and leaves a residual. Is great
for cleaning composites prior to bonding skins together. When used on
Plexiglas, Lexan or Acrylic (aircraft windows) it dehydrates natural
lubricants which inhibit crazing.
Go ask an aircraft window supplier what they think is the consequence
of ACETONE touching your windows. They are a real bitch to replace. It
would be unfortunate not to revisit this subject. Also, Jesse has never
shared his process for replacement of that damaged windscreen and the
adhesion of it to the aircraft during initial construction and
windshield replacement procedure. First time builders would love to
know.
Sorry Chris, your enthusiasm can sometimes overwhelm us old fogeys. I
will stand by my source of LP Plastics. Fifth paragraph Third
sentence.
Been there, done that, won't ever, ever consider it again - whoever
David is "as provided".
John - not worth more than $00.02
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Johnston
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 4:55 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
I did my first window the other day using this method. Haven't
finished (need to lay the glass around the perimeter) but this was the
procedure that was recommended to install windows so you don't get any
cracking around the edge. Seems to work good. So far no cracking J
(not flying) cj
As provided by David:
Although the procedure takes only about an hour to accomplish per
window, setup and planning is substantially more.. I recommend that you
do one window to get the procs correct and plan to do the windshield on
a day by itself.
(0) tape off the inside and outside flange area of the window using 3M
Fineline (.5 width)
(1) then signstrip blue on the center areas to protect the inside and
outside of the window . Be generous when painting it on as this makes it
easy to pull off.
(2) sand the inside/outside edges of the window in the area of the
flange to roughen the glass for adhesion.
(3) sand the flanges of the lid; CLEAN ALL SANDED EDGES WITH ACETONE
(4) prepare a set of aluminum "fingers" . Strips of .080 1" by 3" ;
with a slight bend in the center. one end gets a #30 hole and the other
is adequately taped. each is numbered. See the picture.
(5) Trim the window to fit the frame and temporarily hold in place
with the NUMBERED "fingers". Clecoes should be place about .50" outside
the window. Drill #30 only through the external layer; NOT THROUGH THE
LID. RETAPE OFF THE EDGES 3M FINELINE TAPE .
(6) prepare a mixture of epoxy with chopped fibers and cabosil.
Consistency should be peanut butter. Potlife should plan to be 30-40
minutes. We refrigerated it to further slow the cure.
(7) putty the lid flanges, wet the window flanges with a small amount
of catalyzed epoxy and place window in frame; holding in place with
"fingers" at the preplanned locations.
(8) inside person should be wiping excess putty away with a 50-50
mixture of mineral spirirts and acetone; outside person should be
smoothing putty on outside flange. excess will be sanded off later. then
PULL THE TAPES BEFORE IT CURES.
(9) allow to cure 24 hours.
(10) Inside lid , flange should be finished . If rough, tape glass and
sand lightly.
(11) outside the lid, RETAPE the edge at the flange line, then cover
the flange with two 1" layers of glass (E-7782?). (Note this was the
Glastar procedure.) Remember to pull the tape before the layered glass
sets up. The windscreen on the RV10 requires a different layering of
glass on the aluminum.
(12) Retape the edge , then sand and fill external flange area for
paint. The sanding can feather into the edge of the tape.
(13) when painted , paint should cover the flange.
(14) MUST BE DONE BEFORE THE MIXTURE CURES. If you accidentally get
epoxy on the Plexiglas during the process, it can be safely removed
using a clean cloth and the 50-50 mixture of mineral spirits and
acetone. Have it handy.
(15) 50-50 mixture is also good for removing any signstrip that does
not come off when finally removing the protective covering before
flight.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crackless (and glazeless) windows - was- Alternatives |
for Weld On 10?
Amid all of the din re Acetone and plexiglass, I hope that his method
for installing the windows does not become a victim of the hubub. One
need only look among the rows of RV-10's @ OSH to find evidence of the
cracking in the paint for those who've used Weld On to attach their
windows. If you want to avoid the inevitable cracks I encourage you to
consider 'David's' ;-) (Phoenix Composites) process.
(PS I've got 5 containers/kits of Weld-on 10 available to the 1st person
to pay the shipping/handling)
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
David McNeill wrote:
> I am the David and I did not suggest using acetone on any part of the
> window that is a vieiwing area. All veiwing ares were protected with
> signprint.The window flanges were scuffed and cleaned with acetone.
> and excess resin (when installing) was cleaned up with a 50/50 mixture
> of mineral spirits and acetone. The procedeure I relayed is a
> procedure that Phoenix Composities has been using on Glasairs and
> lancairs for years with good results..
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* John W. Cox
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Friday, October 05, 2007 11:27 AM
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
>
>
> No, the barb was for whoever as provided by David is that led
> you astray down that ACETONE path to a replacement window.
>
> There are lots to kudos to be said for the thankless investment of
> time that Tim has invested. Thanks again Tim! So future builders
> do not stub their toes on the same rocks along Lifes Highway.
>
> Now if only Jesse will share the pictures, techniques and advise
> he has gleaned from repairing that accident on one of his fleet of
> aircraft.. Anyone remember the Columbia blade through the front
> window, Aye?
>
> If we cant share, then I guess having 975+ lurkers may just be a
> good thing after all. Hopefully there will be at least one builder
> who doesnt get crazing of the glass due to harmful chemical contact.
>
> Chris keep up the enthusiasm, it can be contagious. I get lots
> of great ideas from your progress and experimentation. I am even
> looking at a CNC mill after those Kitplane articles and your efforts.
>
> John
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Chris
> Johnston
> *Sent:* Friday, October 05, 2007 11:01 AM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
>
> Ouch. That email had a bit of a barb in it eh? Oh well, I
> appreciate the information, and it is timely as well. Ill stick
> to straight mineral spirits I guess. And hope that the first
> window I did that way doesnt cause me to come tumbling out of the
> sky. J
>
> John, while I appreciate the excellent info and resources that you
> offer to us over-enthusiastic types, I feel that possibly this
> type of response, while informative and very very helpful, could
> possibly lead other builders with thinner skin to not post
> questions at all. Just a thought. Im sure glad I opened my mouth,
> because I got some good information out of doing so. And Im
> equally sure that you didnt intend your email to be as pointy as
> it sounded on first read.
>
> Anyway, Ill keep asking all the idiot questions I can think of,
> and you old fogeys will hopefully keep setting me straight!
>
> cj
>
> (research-impaired and overly enthusiastic)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John
> W. Cox
> *Sent:* Friday, October 05, 2007 9:20 AM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
>
> Whoa, Chris
>
> Every now and then, I mention the wealth of information that has
> been posted by Tim Olson and our RV-10 University archives. It
> seems so tragic that the mistakes of a few can be repeatedly
> resurfaced due to avoiding a read.
>
> For those who chose to be research impaired, here is a post
> http://www.myrv10.com/tips/maintenance/plexi/Care_of_Plexi.pdf
>
> For those who need a picture see attached.
>
> Before using ACETONE. Understand that it is a great solvent,
> faster than Isopropyl Alcohol, slower than MEK and leaves a
> residual. Is great for cleaning composites prior to bonding skins
> together. When used on Plexiglas, Lexan or Acrylic (aircraft
> windows) it dehydrates natural lubricants which inhibit crazing.
>
> Go ask an aircraft window supplier what they think is the
> consequence of ACETONE touching your windows. They are a real
> bitch to replace. It would be unfortunate not to revisit this
> subject. Also, Jesse has never shared his process for replacement
> of that damaged windscreen and the adhesion of it to the aircraft
> during initial construction and windshield replacement procedure.
> First time builders would love to know.
>
> Sorry Chris, your enthusiasm can sometimes overwhelm us old
> fogeys. I will stand by my source of LP Plastics. Fifth paragraph
> Third sentence.
>
> Been there, done that, wont ever, ever consider it again
> whoever David is as provided.
>
> John not worth more than $00.02
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Chris
> Johnston
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 04, 2007 4:55 PM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
>
> I did my first window the other day using this method. Havent
> finished (need to lay the glass around the perimeter) but this was
> the procedure that was recommended to install windows so you dont
> get any cracking around the edge. Seems to work good. So far no
> cracking J (not flying) cj
>
> As provided by David:
>
> Although the procedure takes only about an hour to accomplish per
> window, setup and planning is substantially more.. I recommend
> that you do one window to get the procs correct and plan to do the
> windshield on a day by itself.
>
> (0) tape off the inside and outside flange area of the window
> using 3M Fineline (.5 width)
>
> (1) then signstrip blue on the center areas to protect the inside
> and outside of the window . Be generous when painting it on as
> this makes it easy to pull off.
>
> (2) sand the inside/outside edges of the window in the area of the
> flange to roughen the glass for adhesion.
>
> (3) sand the flanges of the lid; CLEAN ALL SANDED EDGES WITH ACETONE
>
> (4) prepare a set of aluminum "fingers" . Strips of .080 1" by 3"
> ; with a slight bend in the center. one end gets a #30 hole and
> the other is adequately taped. each is numbered. See the picture.
>
> (5) Trim the window to fit the frame and temporarily hold in place
> with the NUMBERED "fingers". Clecoes should be place about .50"
> outside the window. Drill #30 only through the external layer; NOT
> THROUGH THE LID. RETAPE OFF THE EDGES 3M FINELINE TAPE .
>
> (6) prepare a mixture of epoxy with chopped fibers and cabosil.
> Consistency should be peanut butter. Potlife should plan to be
> 30-40 minutes. We refrigerated it to further slow the cure.
>
> (7) putty the lid flanges, wet the window flanges with a small
> amount of catalyzed epoxy and place window in frame; holding in
> place with "fingers" at the preplanned locations.
>
> (8) inside person should be wiping excess putty away with a 50-50
> mixture of mineral spirirts and acetone; outside person should be
> smoothing putty on outside flange. excess will be sanded off
> later. then PULL THE TAPES BEFORE IT CURES.
>
> (9) allow to cure 24 hours.
>
> (10) Inside lid , flange should be finished . If rough, tape glass
> and sand lightly.
>
> (11) outside the lid, RETAPE the edge at the flange line, then
> cover the flange with two 1" layers of glass (E-7782?). (Note this
> was the Glastar procedure.) **Remember to pull the tape before the
> layered glass sets up.** The windscreen on the RV10 requires a
> different layering of glass on the aluminum.
>
> (12) Retape the edge , then sand and fill external flange area for
> paint. The sanding can feather into the edge of the tape.
>
> (13) when painted , paint should cover the flange.
>
> (14) MUST BE DONE BEFORE THE MIXTURE CURES. If you accidentally
> get epoxy on the Plexiglas during the process, it can be safely
> removed using a clean cloth and the 50-50 mixture of mineral
> spirits and acetone. **Have it handy.**
>
> (15) 50-50 mixture is also good for removing any signstrip that
> does not come off when finally removing the protective covering
> before flight.
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *< Forum Email RV10-List The ->< to Navigator Features List Matronics>< Subscriptions the as such utilities>< Chat, Browse, 7-Day Download,>< much and Photoshare,>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> *< - FORUMS WEB MATRONICS NEW>< Web via available also now content>http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> *< Forum Email RV10-List The - >*
>
> *< to Navigator Features List Matronics>*
>
> *< Subscriptions the as such utilities>*
>
> *< Chat, Browse, 7-Day Download, & Search>*
>
> *< much and Photoshare,>*
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> **
>
> *< - FORUMS WEB MATRONICS NEW >*
>
> *< Web via available also now content>*
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternatives for Weld On 10? |
| From: | "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> |
Tell you what... you can call me "craze-y" if I can call you "barb-ra"!
hehe. No, in all seriousness, I take all responsibility for trundling
down whatever path I trundle down... no steam gauges, acetone on my
windows... you name it. Just because someone says "you should do this!"
or "I did it this way!" doesn't mean you should follow. If all your
friends jumped off a building, would you? oh wait... my friends do, and
so do I. My point is, as a builder, and especially as a first-timer,
all you can do is do the research, and make the best decision that you
can. Sometimes, you miss something, as I appear to have in this
instance. At those times, I appreciate when folks like you poke me in
the eye and show me that I missed some crucial piece of info. I do
think that the info provided to us by David McNeil is valuable, and
maybe your post would be well served as an edit or addendum to a
procedure that seems to have enjoyed good results. You know... in a
positive way. In that spirit, I'll suggest that the original cleaning
of the sanded edges of the window be done with good ole water, and the
cleanup done with straight mineral spirits. All else in the procedure
to remain what it is. Thoughts? Constructive criticism?
cj
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 11:28 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
No, the barb was for whoever "as provided by David" is... that led you
astray down that ACETONE path to a replacement window.
There are lots to kudos to be said for the thankless investment of time
that Tim has invested. "Thanks again Tim!" So future builders do not
stub their toes on the same rocks along Life's Highway.
Now if only Jesse will share the pictures, techniques and advise he has
gleaned from repairing that accident on one of his fleet of aircraft..
Anyone remember the Columbia blade through the front window, Aye?
If we can't share, then I guess having 975+ lurkers may just be a good
thing after all. Hopefully there will be at least one builder who
doesn't get crazing of the glass due to harmful chemical contact.
Chris - keep up the enthusiasm, it can be contagious. I get lots of
great ideas from your progress and experimentation. I am even looking
at a CNC mill after those Kitplane articles and your efforts.
John
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Johnston
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 11:01 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
Ouch. That email had a bit of a barb in it eh? Oh well, I appreciate
the information, and it is timely as well. I'll stick to straight
mineral spirits I guess. And hope that the first window I did that way
doesn't cause me to come tumbling out of the sky. :-)
John, while I appreciate the excellent info and resources that you offer
to us over-enthusiastic types, I feel that possibly this type of
response, while informative and very very helpful, could possibly lead
other builders with thinner skin to not post questions at all. Just a
thought. I'm sure glad I opened my mouth, because I got some good
information out of doing so. And I'm equally sure that you didn't
intend your email to be as pointy as it sounded on first read.
Anyway, I'll keep asking all the idiot questions I can think of, and you
"old fogeys" will hopefully keep setting me straight!
cj
(research-impaired and overly enthusiastic)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 9:20 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
Whoa, Chris
Every now and then, I mention the wealth of information that has been
posted by Tim Olson and our RV-10 University archives. It seems so
tragic that the mistakes of a few can be repeatedly resurfaced due to
avoiding a read.
For those who chose to be research impaired, here is a post
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/maintenance/plexi/Care_of_Plexi.pdf
For those who need a picture - see attached.
Before using ACETONE. Understand that it is a great solvent, faster
than Isopropyl Alcohol, slower than MEK and leaves a residual. Is great
for cleaning composites prior to bonding skins together. When used on
Plexiglas, Lexan or Acrylic (aircraft windows) it dehydrates natural
lubricants which inhibit crazing.
Go ask an aircraft window supplier what they think is the consequence of
ACETONE touching your windows. They are a real bitch to replace. It
would be unfortunate not to revisit this subject. Also, Jesse has never
shared his process for replacement of that damaged windscreen and the
adhesion of it to the aircraft during initial construction and
windshield replacement procedure. First time builders would love to
know.
Sorry Chris, your enthusiasm can sometimes overwhelm us old fogeys. I
will stand by my source of LP Plastics. Fifth paragraph Third
sentence.
Been there, done that, won't ever, ever consider it again - whoever
David is "as provided".
John - not worth more than $00.02
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Johnston
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 4:55 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
I did my first window the other day using this method. Haven't finished
(need to lay the glass around the perimeter) but this was the procedure
that was recommended to install windows so you don't get any cracking
around the edge. Seems to work good. So far no cracking :-) (not
flying) cj
As provided by David:
Although the procedure takes only about an hour to accomplish per
window, setup and planning is substantially more.. I recommend that you
do one window to get the procs correct and plan to do the windshield on
a day by itself.
(0) tape off the inside and outside flange area of the window using 3M
Fineline (.5 width)
(1) then signstrip blue on the center areas to protect the inside and
outside of the window . Be generous when painting it on as this makes it
easy to pull off.
(2) sand the inside/outside edges of the window in the area of the
flange to roughen the glass for adhesion.
(3) sand the flanges of the lid; CLEAN ALL SANDED EDGES WITH ACETONE
(4) prepare a set of aluminum "fingers" . Strips of .080 1" by 3" ; with
a slight bend in the center. one end gets a #30 hole and the other is
adequately taped. each is numbered. See the picture.
(5) Trim the window to fit the frame and temporarily hold in place with
the NUMBERED "fingers". Clecoes should be place about .50" outside the
window. Drill #30 only through the external layer; NOT THROUGH THE LID.
RETAPE OFF THE EDGES 3M FINELINE TAPE .
(6) prepare a mixture of epoxy with chopped fibers and cabosil.
Consistency should be peanut butter. Potlife should plan to be 30-40
minutes. We refrigerated it to further slow the cure.
(7) putty the lid flanges, wet the window flanges with a small amount of
catalyzed epoxy and place window in frame; holding in place with
"fingers" at the preplanned locations.
(8) inside person should be wiping excess putty away with a 50-50
mixture of mineral spirirts and acetone; outside person should be
smoothing putty on outside flange. excess will be sanded off later. then
PULL THE TAPES BEFORE IT CURES.
(9) allow to cure 24 hours.
(10) Inside lid , flange should be finished . If rough, tape glass and
sand lightly.
(11) outside the lid, RETAPE the edge at the flange line, then cover the
flange with two 1" layers of glass (E-7782?). (Note this was the Glastar
procedure.) Remember to pull the tape before the layered glass sets up.
The windscreen on the RV10 requires a different layering of glass on the
aluminum.
(12) Retape the edge , then sand and fill external flange area for
paint. The sanding can feather into the edge of the tape.
(13) when painted , paint should cover the flange.
(14) MUST BE DONE BEFORE THE MIXTURE CURES. If you accidentally get
epoxy on the Plexiglas during the process, it can be safely removed
using a clean cloth and the 50-50 mixture of mineral spirits and
acetone. Have it handy.
(15) 50-50 mixture is also good for removing any signstrip that does not
come off when finally removing the protective covering before flight.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Alternatives for Weld On 10? |
Not only Phoenix Composites but hundreds of Glasair and Glastar builders
over the years. As David said use Acetone only on the area to be bonded and
only a small amount. As with anything, if a little is good, more is not
necessarily better. Try breathing humidified air as apposed to 100% water.
Gary
40274
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
I am the David and I did not suggest using acetone on any part of the window
that is a vieiwing area. All veiwing ares were protected with signprint.The
window flanges were scuffed and cleaned with acetone. and excess resin (when
installing) was cleaned up with a 50/50 mixture of mineral spirits and
acetone. The procedeure I relayed is a procedure that Phoenix Composities
has been using on Glasairs and lancairs for years with good results..
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Cox <mailto:johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 11:27 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
No, the barb was for whoever "as provided by David" is. that led you astray
down that ACETONE path to a replacement window.
There are lots to kudos to be said for the thankless investment of time that
Tim has invested. "Thanks again Tim!" So future builders do not stub their
toes on the same rocks along Life's Highway.
Now if only Jesse will share the pictures, techniques and advise he has
gleaned from repairing that accident on one of his fleet of aircraft..
Anyone remember the Columbia blade through the front window, Aye?
If we can't share, then I guess having 975+ lurkers may just be a good thing
after all. Hopefully there will be at least one builder who doesn't get
crazing of the glass due to harmful chemical contact.
Chris - keep up the enthusiasm, it can be contagious. I get lots of great
ideas from your progress and experimentation. I am even looking at a CNC
mill after those Kitplane articles and your efforts.
John
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 11:01 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
Ouch. That email had a bit of a barb in it eh? Oh well, I appreciate the
information, and it is timely as well. I'll stick to straight mineral
spirits I guess. And hope that the first window I did that way doesn't
cause me to come tumbling out of the sky. :-)
John, while I appreciate the excellent info and resources that you offer to
us over-enthusiastic types, I feel that possibly this type of response,
while informative and very very helpful, could possibly lead other builders
with thinner skin to not post questions at all. Just a thought. I'm sure
glad I opened my mouth, because I got some good information out of doing so.
And I'm equally sure that you didn't intend your email to be as pointy as it
sounded on first read.
Anyway, I'll keep asking all the idiot questions I can think of, and you
"old fogeys" will hopefully keep setting me straight!
cj
(research-impaired and overly enthusiastic)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 9:20 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
Whoa, Chris
Every now and then, I mention the wealth of information that has been posted
by Tim Olson and our RV-10 University archives. It seems so tragic that the
mistakes of a few can be repeatedly resurfaced due to avoiding a read.
For those who chose to be research impaired, here is a post
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/maintenance/plexi/Care_of_Plexi.pdf
For those who need a picture - see attached.
Before using ACETONE. Understand that it is a great solvent, faster than
Isopropyl Alcohol, slower than MEK and leaves a residual. Is great for
cleaning composites prior to bonding skins together. When used on
Plexiglas, Lexan or Acrylic (aircraft windows) it dehydrates natural
lubricants which inhibit crazing.
Go ask an aircraft window supplier what they think is the consequence of
ACETONE touching your windows. They are a real bitch to replace. It would
be unfortunate not to revisit this subject. Also, Jesse has never shared
his process for replacement of that damaged windscreen and the adhesion of
it to the aircraft during initial construction and windshield replacement
procedure. First time builders would love to know.
Sorry Chris, your enthusiasm can sometimes overwhelm us old fogeys. I will
stand by my source of LP Plastics. Fifth paragraph Third sentence.
Been there, done that, won't ever, ever consider it again - whoever David is
"as provided".
John - not worth more than $00.02
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 4:55 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
I did my first window the other day using this method. Haven't finished
(need to lay the glass around the perimeter) but this was the procedure that
was recommended to install windows so you don't get any cracking around the
edge. Seems to work good. So far no cracking :-) (not flying) cj
As provided by David:
Although the procedure takes only about an hour to accomplish per window,
setup and planning is substantially more.. I recommend that you do one
window to get the procs correct and plan to do the windshield on a day by
itself.
(0) tape off the inside and outside flange area of the window using 3M
Fineline (.5 width)
(1) then signstrip blue on the center areas to protect the inside and
outside of the window . Be generous when painting it on as this makes it
easy to pull off.
(2) sand the inside/outside edges of the window in the area of the flange to
roughen the glass for adhesion.
(3) sand the flanges of the lid; CLEAN ALL SANDED EDGES WITH ACETONE
(4) prepare a set of aluminum "fingers" . Strips of .080 1" by 3" ; with a
slight bend in the center. one end gets a #30 hole and the other is
adequately taped. each is numbered. See the picture.
(5) Trim the window to fit the frame and temporarily hold in place with the
NUMBERED "fingers". Clecoes should be place about .50" outside the window.
Drill #30 only through the external layer; NOT THROUGH THE LID. RETAPE OFF
THE EDGES 3M FINELINE TAPE .
(6) prepare a mixture of epoxy with chopped fibers and cabosil. Consistency
should be peanut butter. Potlife should plan to be 30-40 minutes. We
refrigerated it to further slow the cure.
(7) putty the lid flanges, wet the window flanges with a small amount of
catalyzed epoxy and place window in frame; holding in place with "fingers"
at the preplanned locations.
(8) inside person should be wiping excess putty away with a 50-50 mixture of
mineral spirirts and acetone; outside person should be smoothing putty on
outside flange. excess will be sanded off later. then PULL THE TAPES BEFORE
IT CURES.
(9) allow to cure 24 hours.
(10) Inside lid , flange should be finished . If rough, tape glass and sand
lightly.
(11) outside the lid, RETAPE the edge at the flange line, then cover the
flange with two 1" layers of glass (E-7782?). (Note this was the Glastar
procedure.) Remember to pull the tape before the layered glass sets up. The
windscreen on the RV10 requires a different layering of glass on the
aluminum.
(12) Retape the edge , then sand and fill external flange area for paint.
The sanding can feather into the edge of the tape.
(13) when painted , paint should cover the flange.
(14) MUST BE DONE BEFORE THE MIXTURE CURES. If you accidentally get epoxy on
the Plexiglas during the process, it can be safely removed using a clean
cloth and the 50-50 mixture of mineral spirits and acetone. Have it handy.
(15) 50-50 mixture is also good for removing any signstrip that does not
come off when finally removing the protective covering before flight.
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
<http://forums.matronics.com> http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Alternatives for Weld On 10? |
Cleaning with mineral spirits leaves a thin film that resists bonding by
epoxy. Don't tinker with a successful procedure proven over the years by
many builders.
Gary
40274
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 2:28 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
Tell you what. you can call me "craze-y" if I can call you "barb-ra"!
hehe. No, in all seriousness, I take all responsibility for trundling down
whatever path I trundle down. no steam gauges, acetone on my windows. you
name it. Just because someone says "you should do this!" or "I did it this
way!" doesn't mean you should follow. If all your friends jumped off a
building, would you? oh wait. my friends do, and so do I. My point is, as
a builder, and especially as a first-timer, all you can do is do the
research, and make the best decision that you can. Sometimes, you miss
something, as I appear to have in this instance. At those times, I
appreciate when folks like you poke me in the eye and show me that I missed
some crucial piece of info. I do think that the info provided to us by
David McNeil is valuable, and maybe your post would be well served as an
edit or addendum to a procedure that seems to have enjoyed good results.
You know. in a positive way. In that spirit, I'll suggest that the original
cleaning of the sanded edges of the window be done with good ole water, and
the cleanup done with straight mineral spirits. All else in the procedure
to remain what it is. Thoughts? Constructive criticism?
cj
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 11:28 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
No, the barb was for whoever "as provided by David" is. that led you astray
down that ACETONE path to a replacement window.
There are lots to kudos to be said for the thankless investment of time that
Tim has invested. "Thanks again Tim!" So future builders do not stub their
toes on the same rocks along Life's Highway.
Now if only Jesse will share the pictures, techniques and advise he has
gleaned from repairing that accident on one of his fleet of aircraft..
Anyone remember the Columbia blade through the front window, Aye?
If we can't share, then I guess having 975+ lurkers may just be a good thing
after all. Hopefully there will be at least one builder who doesn't get
crazing of the glass due to harmful chemical contact.
Chris - keep up the enthusiasm, it can be contagious. I get lots of great
ideas from your progress and experimentation. I am even looking at a CNC
mill after those Kitplane articles and your efforts.
John
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 11:01 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
Ouch. That email had a bit of a barb in it eh? Oh well, I appreciate the
information, and it is timely as well. I'll stick to straight mineral
spirits I guess. And hope that the first window I did that way doesn't
cause me to come tumbling out of the sky. :-)
John, while I appreciate the excellent info and resources that you offer to
us over-enthusiastic types, I feel that possibly this type of response,
while informative and very very helpful, could possibly lead other builders
with thinner skin to not post questions at all. Just a thought. I'm sure
glad I opened my mouth, because I got some good information out of doing so.
And I'm equally sure that you didn't intend your email to be as pointy as it
sounded on first read.
Anyway, I'll keep asking all the idiot questions I can think of, and you
"old fogeys" will hopefully keep setting me straight!
cj
(research-impaired and overly enthusiastic)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 9:20 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
Whoa, Chris
Every now and then, I mention the wealth of information that has been posted
by Tim Olson and our RV-10 University archives. It seems so tragic that the
mistakes of a few can be repeatedly resurfaced due to avoiding a read.
For those who chose to be research impaired, here is a post
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/maintenance/plexi/Care_of_Plexi.pdf
For those who need a picture - see attached.
Before using ACETONE. Understand that it is a great solvent, faster than
Isopropyl Alcohol, slower than MEK and leaves a residual. Is great for
cleaning composites prior to bonding skins together. When used on
Plexiglas, Lexan or Acrylic (aircraft windows) it dehydrates natural
lubricants which inhibit crazing.
Go ask an aircraft window supplier what they think is the consequence of
ACETONE touching your windows. They are a real bitch to replace. It would
be unfortunate not to revisit this subject. Also, Jesse has never shared
his process for replacement of that damaged windscreen and the adhesion of
it to the aircraft during initial construction and windshield replacement
procedure. First time builders would love to know.
Sorry Chris, your enthusiasm can sometimes overwhelm us old fogeys. I will
stand by my source of LP Plastics. Fifth paragraph Third sentence.
Been there, done that, won't ever, ever consider it again - whoever David is
"as provided".
John - not worth more than $00.02
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 4:55 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternatives for Weld On 10?
I did my first window the other day using this method. Haven't finished
(need to lay the glass around the perimeter) but this was the procedure that
was recommended to install windows so you don't get any cracking around the
edge. Seems to work good. So far no cracking :-) (not flying) cj
As provided by David:
Although the procedure takes only about an hour to accomplish per window,
setup and planning is substantially more.. I recommend that you do one
window to get the procs correct and plan to do the windshield on a day by
itself.
(0) tape off the inside and outside flange area of the window using 3M
Fineline (.5 width)
(1) then signstrip blue on the center areas to protect the inside and
outside of the window . Be generous when painting it on as this makes it
easy to pull off.
(2) sand the inside/outside edges of the window in the area of the flange to
roughen the glass for adhesion.
(3) sand the flanges of the lid; CLEAN ALL SANDED EDGES WITH ACETONE
(4) prepare a set of aluminum "fingers" . Strips of .080 1" by 3" ; with a
slight bend in the center. one end gets a #30 hole and the other is
adequately taped. each is numbered. See the picture.
(5) Trim the window to fit the frame and temporarily hold in place with the
NUMBERED "fingers". Clecoes should be place about .50" outside the window.
Drill #30 only through the external layer; NOT THROUGH THE LID. RETAPE OFF
THE EDGES 3M FINELINE TAPE .
(6) prepare a mixture of epoxy with chopped fibers and cabosil. Consistency
should be peanut butter. Potlife should plan to be 30-40 minutes. We
refrigerated it to further slow the cure.
(7) putty the lid flanges, wet the window flanges with a small amount of
catalyzed epoxy and place window in frame; holding in place with "fingers"
at the preplanned locations.
(8) inside person should be wiping excess putty away with a 50-50 mixture of
mineral spirirts and acetone; outside person should be smoothing putty on
outside flange. excess will be sanded off later. then PULL THE TAPES BEFORE
IT CURES.
(9) allow to cure 24 hours.
(10) Inside lid , flange should be finished . If rough, tape glass and sand
lightly.
(11) outside the lid, RETAPE the edge at the flange line, then cover the
flange with two 1" layers of glass (E-7782?). (Note this was the Glastar
procedure.) Remember to pull the tape before the layered glass sets up. The
windscreen on the RV10 requires a different layering of glass on the
aluminum.
(12) Retape the edge , then sand and fill external flange area for paint.
The sanding can feather into the edge of the tape.
(13) when painted , paint should cover the flange.
(14) MUST BE DONE BEFORE THE MIXTURE CURES. If you accidentally get epoxy on
the Plexiglas during the process, it can be safely removed using a clean
cloth and the 50-50 mixture of mineral spirits and acetone. Have it handy.
(15) 50-50 mixture is also good for removing any signstrip that does not
come off when finally removing the protective covering before flight.
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
<http://forums.matronics.com> http://forums.matronics.com
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternatives for Weld On 10? |
| From: | "eagerlee" <eagerlee(at)comcast.net> |
have the builders considered the total strength of the cabin when choosing to install
windows and windscreen with a 2 part epoxy mixed with chopped fibers?
I have no doubt the Plexiglas will stay in place during all regimens of flight,
but what happens if one should find oneself UWOF? Will the cabin be as good
a protector with glassed in windows as it would be with "weldon-10" glued windows?
In other words, did Vans Aircraft engineer this aspect of construction?
I would like to do the fiberglass method myself, but I'll probably consult on
the builder assist line first, unless someone here has already done so. Also,
doesn't alchohol make a good plexi cleaner?
Paul Hahn
#40203 , finishing kit on order
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138396#138396
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rivethead - Aero |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
Grumpy,
I had the same problem last year. He'll eventually get to you and they are beautiful.
I keep the old ones right next to my plans to remind me that there are
alternatives.
John
--------
#40572 Empennage done, starting QB Wings
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138427#138427
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | instrument selection |
Aren't we glad that there are experimental EFISs out there that have TAWS or
terrain warnings (Chelton, GRT, etc)? Last night a medical flight hit a
ridge below the MSA in the vicinity of Alamosa CO. Although only preliminary
information exists, the flight was 25 miles southwest of the airport when
a King Air and was probably on an IFR flight plan it was possibly cleared
for a visual approach or possibly the ILS 2 to KALS. If any KALS approach
plate was examined it would indicate that the MSA for their location was
about 13000 MSL. According to news reports it hit a ridge at about 11700
MSL. These kinds of accidents always make me wonder about the slow migration
of experimental TAWS into certified aviation.
Also of interest will be whether the (if ILS 2 approach) required ATC
terminology was used for the approach clearance. Ever heard "cleared for the
X approach, maintain y altitude until established etc." That "maintain y
altitude" was not there until in the early 1970s a TWA 727 hit a ridge
outside Dulles airport in DC. The pilot had been cleared for the approach
about 20 miles from the final approach fix and he descended to the FAF
altitude and hit an intervening ridge. When a number of other airline pilots
were interviewed they indicated that they would have done the same thing;
hence the additional phraseology.
Anyway when choosing instrumentation for your 10 (whether IFR or night VFR)
, I suggest you consider terrain warning capability.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: instrument selection |
In a message dated 10/6/2007 12:51:17 AM Central Daylight Time,
dlm46007(at)cox.net writes:
Aren=99t we glad that there are experimental EFISs out there that have
TAWS or
terrain warnings (Chelton, GRT, etc)? Last night a medical flight hit a ridg
e
below the MSA in the vicinity of Alamosa CO.
One could also use a portable device such as a Garmin 496 or 396 or the Aspe
n
as situational awareness equipment for terrain besides the Chelton, GRT,
Garmin etc...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Exterior door handles by Henkjan Van Der Zouw? |
| From: | "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> |
hey all -
I emailed Henkjan directly, but have had no response... does anyone
know if he's selling the door handles that he made up? I thought they
looked kinda nice, and with the integral lock to boot, seems like a
winner to me. Has his email address changed? anyone purchased these
from him?
by the way... I spent this afternoon installing the door guides and
pins from Rivethead aero, and they REALLY make for a nice opening and
closing door. super sweet. I only wish that the RV-10 had 3 doors
instead of two. I just got much better at doing everything by the
second one. boy, the copilot door came out really nice. hehe.
learnin's fun.
cj
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Angle of Attack Probe Vs Stall Warning Vane |
| From: | "Patrick Pulis" <patrick.pulis(at)seagas.com.au> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack Probe Vs Stall Warning Vane |
I have both. I have the AFS AOA Sport version. Once calibrated the wing
stall warning vane works great, besides the buzzer I also added a light on the
panel; I like the way it works and think it's a good idea to have on the plane.
The AOA, on the other hand, can be used for more than just stall detection,
but I have had trouble with mine. I get error messages which have required
recalibration every few flights, so I've learned not to count on it working.
Recalibration has never failed to clear the errors, but I've gotten tired of
taking the 10 minutes out of my flight to perform the calibration procedure and
stopped using it. (Nothing against AFS, as I haven't taken the time to
report this to them, so I haven't given them a chance to help me fix it yet).
So, I suggest keeping the wing stall detector on there per the plans, but
install the AOA Pro for it's added functionality.
-Jim
40134 - 1st Annual Complete - Flying Again!
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
_http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
In a message dated 10/7/2007 9:54:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
patrick.pulis(at)seagas.com.au writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Patrick Pulis"
Could anyone please indicate their thoughts regarding the deletion of
the Vans stall warning vane and micro-switch in favour of installing
only an angle of attack device.
I have purchased the Advanced Flight Systems Angle of Attack Pro and the
features of this device seem to negate the need to install the Vans
stall warning vane and buzzer.
If anyone out there has adopted this configuration I would very much
like to hear from you, with a view to gauging your thoughts regarding
the success or otherwise of this approach.
Thanks in advance from downunder.
PATRICK PULIS
RV-10 #40299
Adelaide, South Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Firewall & bottom skin Pro-Seal |
| From: | "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com> |
On Page 28-13 Step 2: It is recommended to use a thin layer of Pro-Seal between
the firewall flanges and the fuselage skins. Apply Pro-Seal to the lower flange
of the F-1000A Firewall Bulkhead then cleco the Firewall Assembly to the F-1072
Fwd Fuse Bottom Skin as shown in Figure 1.
With all the discussion in the past week about aluminum heat boxes in front of
the firewall, as I read this step it got me to wondering, are they talking about
the regular Pro-Seal or the high heat Firewall Sealant available from Vans?
In the steps, it doesnt say or I dont see any implication as to why they are
suggesting the sealant. Is it to hold the structure solid like the trailing
edges of the wings, or is it to try to seal any engine fumes from making it into
the cabin or ????
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Fuselage SB
(N410GB reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138693#138693
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall & bottom skin Pro-Seal |
Gary,
I found the same thing confusing, later it tells you to use the high heat sealant
but for the bottom, use proseal. My fix is was to use the high temp proseal
from Van's made for selaing the firewall. I used it inside and outside at the
relief cuts in the forewall and to make a nice seal around my Koolmat cover on
the firewall.
Rick S.
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2007 8:11:10 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Firewall & bottom skin Pro-Seal
On Page 28-13 Step 2: It is recommended to use a thin layer of Pro-Seal between
the firewall flanges and the fuselage skins. Apply Pro-Seal to the lower flange
of the F-1000A Firewall Bulkhead then cleco the Firewall Assembly to the F-1072
Fwd Fuse Bottom Skin as shown in Figure 1.
With all the discussion in the past week about aluminum heat boxes in front of
the firewall, as I read this step it got me to wondering, are they talking about
the regular Pro-Seal or the high heat Firewall Sealant available from Vans?
In the steps, it doesnt say or I dont see any implication as to why they are
suggesting the sealant. Is it to hold the structure solid like the trailing
edges of the wings, or is it to try to seal any engine fumes from making it into
the cabin or ????
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Fuselage SB
(N410GB reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138693#138693
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack Probe Vs Stall Warning Vane |
Patrick,
I have a light, the horn and the AOA on the 3500, I figure if one or the other
fails, there is still a backup. I was not planning on using the AOA as a primary
stall indicator but for a more stabilized approach. Anyone who has flow the
RV-10 can tell you it has plenty of stall warning through the seat of your pants
let alone all the other goodies we can put in it. I can pull the CB on the
stall vane system if it gets too annoying. And besides, it came with the kit
and I would hate to let Van know he sold something to me and I didn't install
and use it, that would be like selling someone something they didn't need!! :)
Rick S.
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Pulis" <patrick.pulis(at)seagas.com.au>
Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2007 5:27:21 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Angle of Attack Probe Vs Stall Warning Vane
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Could anyone please indicate their thoughts regarding the deletion of
the Vans stall warning vane and micro-switch in favour of installing
only an angle of attack device.
I have purchased the Advanced Flight Systems Angle of Attack Pro and the
features of this device seem to negate the need to install the Vans
stall warning vane and buzzer.
If anyone out there has adopted this configuration I would very much
like to hear from you, with a view to gauging your thoughts regarding
the success or otherwise of this approach.
Thanks in advance from downunder.
> PATRICK PULIS
RV-10 #40299
Adelaide, South Australia
Email: patrick.pulis(at)seagas.com.au
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Angle of Attack Probe Vs Stall Warning Vane
Could anyone please indicate their
thoughts regarding the deletion of the Vans stall warning vane and
micro-switch in favour of installing only an angle of attack
device.
I have purchased the Advanced Flight
Systems Angle of Attack Pro and the features of this device seem to
negate the need to install the Vans stall warning vane and
buzzer.
If anyone out there has adopted this
configuration I would very much like to hear from you, with a view to
gauging your thoughts regarding the success or otherwise of this
approach.
Thanks in advance from
downunder.
PATRICK
PULIS
RV-10
#40299
Adelaide,
South Australia
Email:
patrick.pulis(at)seagas.com.au
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firewall & bottom skin Pro-Seal |
| From: | "Jae Chang" <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com> |
Gary... i believe the main reason is the latter - seal out CO and other
possible combustion gases. i have seen reports of quite a pressure
gradient in other planes. higher forward and lower in the cabin, aft of
the firewall.
thus, for this purpose, proseal was good enough for me.
jae
40533
fuselage gear mounts
>
> On Page 28-13 Step 2: It is recommended to use a thin layer of Pro-Seal
> between the firewall flanges and the fuselage skins. Apply Pro-Seal to
> the lower flange of the F-1000A Firewall Bulkhead then cleco the Firewall
> Assembly to the F-1072 Fwd Fuse Bottom Skin as shown in Figure 1.
>
> With all the discussion in the past week about aluminum heat boxes in
> front of the firewall, as I read this step it got me to wondering, are
> they talking about the regular Pro-Seal or the high heat Firewall
> Sealant available from Vans? In the steps, it doesnt say or I
> dont see any implication as to why they are suggesting the sealant. Is
> it to hold the structure solid like the trailing edges of the wings, or is
> it to try to seal any engine fumes from making it into the cabin or ????
>
> --------
> Gary Blankenbiller
> RV10 - # 40674
> Fuselage SB
> (N410GB reserved)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138693#138693
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Aluminum shavings in the fuel tanks. |
I have quick build wings and I needed to install an access panel to confirm
the appropriate fuel sender travel, install the return line for the fuel
injection. In the process of cutting open the tank, I made quite a mess with
metal shavings. I did my best to minimize the amount, but they are
everywhere. I've used my shop vac and a paint brush to disslodge the
shavings that hung up on the dry proseal. I am thinking that dispite my best
efforts, I think ther estill will be quite a bit floating around once the
fuel starts sloshing around. Does anyone have suggestions, like a partial
fill and drain through a strainer before flight.
I have in line paper filters that will most likely stop the shavings before
they get to the pumps and then the fliter at the firewall, but I want to get
the most that I can out before it gets to these filters.
JOhn #409
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum shavings in the fuel tanks. |
Just a thought John,
Use some denatured alcohol and slosh it around working the fluid towards the drain.
It is not as flammable as petrol and it will evaporate without residue fairly
quickly. I'm sure there must be some flames coming my way for this suggestion
but that's what I would do. Hopefully the tank is removed from the wing,
that will make sloshing much easier ;)
Rick S.
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2007 8:36:30 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Aluminum shavings in the fuel tanks.
I have quick build wings and I needed to install an access panel to confirm
the appropriate fuel sender travel, install the return line for the fuel
injection. In the process of cutting open the tank, I made quite a mess with
metal shavings. I did my best to minimize the amount, but they are
everywhere. I've used my shop vac and a paint brush to disslodge the
shavings that hung up on the dry proseal. I am thinking that dispite my best
efforts, I think ther estill will be quite a bit floating around once the
fuel starts sloshing around. Does anyone have suggestions, like a partial
fill and drain through a strainer before flight.
I have in line paper filters that will most likely stop the shavings before
they get to the pumps and then the fliter at the firewall, but I want to get
the most that I can out before it gets to these filters.
JOhn #409
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum shavings in the fuel tanks. |
I'd use water first, good flush, then follow with isopropyl
alcohol...much safer for the sealant and aluminum than denatured(aka
methanol). Get the 90+ % pure, and it will absorb and remove water from
first flush.
Rick Sked wrote:
>
> Just a thought John,
>
> Use some denatured alcohol and slosh it around working the fluid towards the
drain. It is not as flammable as petrol and it will evaporate without residue
fairly quickly. I'm sure there must be some flames coming my way for this suggestion
but that's what I would do. Hopefully the tank is removed from the wing,
that will make sloshing much easier ;)
>
> Rick S.
> 40185
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
> To: RV10-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2007 8:36:30 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
> Subject: RV10-List: Aluminum shavings in the fuel tanks.
>
>
> I have quick build wings and I needed to install an access panel to confirm
> the appropriate fuel sender travel, install the return line for the fuel
> injection. In the process of cutting open the tank, I made quite a mess with
> metal shavings. I did my best to minimize the amount, but they are
> everywhere. I've used my shop vac and a paint brush to disslodge the
> shavings that hung up on the dry proseal. I am thinking that dispite my best
> efforts, I think ther estill will be quite a bit floating around once the
> fuel starts sloshing around. Does anyone have suggestions, like a partial
> fill and drain through a strainer before flight.
>
> I have in line paper filters that will most likely stop the shavings before
> they get to the pumps and then the fliter at the firewall, but I want to get
> the most that I can out before it gets to these filters.
>
>
> JOhn #409
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com> |
| Subject: | Drillbit extensions |
I'm planning to enlarge the wiring run holes in the QB wings in the next
week or two and I am trying to locate a source for a drill bit extension
that will accommodate the unibit's 3/8" shank. I can find many 1/4" and
7/16" shank extensions, but so far I have found none for a bit with 3/8"
shank.
The ones I have been looking at are the 12" or 18" extensions (planned on
using several as required) with Allen head screws to secure the bit in the
extension. I don't believe an extension for a 7/16" shank would work
because of the difficulties centering the bit. The last thing I want is a
crazed unibit wreaking havoc inside the wings.
I know some homegrown solutions were discussed here not long ago, but does
anyone have a good recommendation or online source for such extensions?
Best Regards,
Patrick #40715
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com> |
| Subject: | QB fuse riveting goodies |
With all the talk about pulling floor pans this last week, I was motivated
to spray some primer on the inside floor skins this weekend. While
inspecting I noticed these dubious rivets tucked away in the fuse side:
http://www.noimnotcrazy.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=1948
There are several barely driven rivets (for which the photo does not do
justice) and one driven completely flush with the skin. There were several
remains in the compartment of drilled out shop heads and no skin separation
to account for the rest of the rivet, so I'm thinking the flat shop head
rivet was already drilled out several times and the hole is significantly
enlarged. This might be a candidate for my first ever oops rivet.
Best Regards,
Patrick #40715
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com> |
| Subject: | Rivethead Aero Staic Ports |
I installed the Rivethead static ports a few weeks ago and was wondering
about the issue regarding degree of protrusion and accuracy.
Photo here:
http://www.noimnotcrazy.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=1870
Has anyone had accuracy issues with the Rivethead static ports? They
protrude out approximately 1mm from the skins. I don't remember the
specifics of the Cleveland flush static port issues and just wondered if
this is satisfactory or not before I rivet up the tailcone top skins.
Best Regards,
Patrick #40715
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Drillbit extensions |
| From: | "tomhanaway" <tomhanaway(at)adelphia.net> |
I just went through this on my 10 QB wings. The other issue is that any head that
holds a 3/8 shank is bigger than the max 3/4" recommended hole.
Avery tools makes a 12" extension where the size of the head has been cut down
to just fit through the 3/4" hole yet it holds a 3/8" shank. Works great. Plus,
although not necessary for this portion of the project, you can easily extend
the 12" extension with standard 1/4 " extenders since the shank of the Avery
tool is 1/4".
Of course, if you live in South Florida, you're welcome to borrow mine :^)
Tom Hanaway
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138717#138717
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Drillbit extensions |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
Patrick,
I just finished that step. Instead of enlarging, I put in another set of holes.
Here's how I did it. First, made a template so they would line up. In the open
bays, I used a #30 to start a pilot hole, then followed up with a unibit to
3/8". This size is perfect for a #4 snap bushing. Instead of the unibit I got
from Avery, I went to the Home Depot Aviation Supply Store and bought a #1 unibit,
which has a 1/4" shank. It was easier to use in my smaller Sioux drill (it
fits in a bay).
For the areas that have been skinned, I started a pilot hole in the wing root rib
using the same template with a #30. I marked the next rib with the template
and then pulled out the 12 inch long #30 I got from Avery. Once the second rib
is drilled, the two holes acted as a guide for the rest. You do need to pull
the inspection port a little further in, but you get the picture.
Next, I went to the Ace Hardware Aviation Supply Store and bought a metal cutting
12 inch long 3/8" drill bit. After using the unibit on the wing root pilot
hole, I switched over to the long 3/8" bit and it went like a dream. Used my hand
held cordless set to a high speed because the shank is 3/8".
If you have already skinned everything in, the outer bays could still be done with
the shank extensions you talked about. Using the smaller #1 unibit, you could
assemble it in place between each rib. Drill the hole, disassemble, and repeat.
Hope this helps.
John
poneill(at)irealms.com wrote:
> I'm planning to enlarge the wiring run holes in the QB wings in the next
> week or two and I am trying to locate a source for a drill bit extension
> that will accommodate the unibit's 3/8" shank. I can find many 1/4" and
> 7/16" shank extensions, but so far I have found none for a bit with 3/8"
> shank.
>
> The ones I have been looking at are the 12" or 18" extensions (planned on
> using several as required) with Allen head screws to secure the bit in the
> extension. I don't believe an extension for a 7/16" shank would work
> because of the difficulties centering the bit. The last thing I want is a
> crazed unibit wreaking havoc inside the wings.
>
> I know some homegrown solutions were discussed here not long ago, but does
> anyone have a good recommendation or online source for such extensions?
>
> Best Regards,
> Patrick #40715
--------
#40572 Empennage done, starting QB Wings
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138767#138767
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack Probe Vs Stall Warning Vane |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
Patrick,
I am not installing Van's stall warning system. Instead, I am installing two AOA
systems. What can I say, I'm a Navy Carrier guy.
The first one is the Dynon heated pitot/AoA tube in place of Van's pitot. This
connects to a Dynon EFIS, which will give a visual indication on the screen and
will also give an audible alarm at stall.
The second one is the AOA from InAir. They call it the "Lift Reserve Indicator"
or LRI. I'm putting it in the right wing. It's purely mechanical and uses a round
gauge. I plan on mounting that one where the Navy puts theirs - the upper
left corner of the windscreen.
Both systems work on the same principle - one tube of air is more affected than
the other due to a change in angle of attack. I've seen other systems that use
a small vane on the wingtip that is electric. Any of them should work.
The real advantage of AOA is that it can tell you, stall, approach, L over D max
(best lift over drag), best climb, best glide, etc. As the builder you will
have to calibrate and calculate that stuff yourself.
John
--------
#40572 Empennage done, starting QB Wings
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138773#138773
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Drillbit extensions |
| From: | "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> |
Patrick,
I used an extension I got from Avery tools and but a metric Unibit in. I drilled
the holes to the perfect size so that the Vans conduits fitted nicely once you
got it in.
http://www.averytools.com/p-533-6-12-step-drill-extensions.aspx
check out my website
www.wellenzohn.net
Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (fuselage)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138776#138776
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall & bottom skin Pro-Seal |
Hi Gary,
I just asked Vans this same question. Their response: "We used tank
sealant until we learned there was something better. Now we use the
high temp sealant."
Jeff Carpenter
40304
On Oct 7, 2007, at 8:11 PM, orchidman wrote:
>
> On Page 28-13 Step 2: It is recommended to use a thin layer of Pro-
> Seal between the firewall flanges and the fuselage skins. Apply
> Pro-Seal to the lower flange of the F-1000A Firewall Bulkhead then
> cleco the Firewall Assembly to the F-1072 Fwd Fuse Bottom Skin as
> shown in Figure 1.
>
> With all the discussion in the past week about aluminum heat boxes
> in front of the firewall, as I read this step it got me to
> wondering, are they talking about the regular Pro-Seal or the high
> heat Firewall Sealant available from Vans? In the steps, it
> doesnt say or I dont see any implication as to why they are
> suggesting the sealant. Is it to hold the structure solid like the
> trailing edges of the wings, or is it to try to seal any engine
> fumes from making it into the cabin or ????
>
> --------
> Gary Blankenbiller
> RV10 - # 40674
> Fuselage SB
> (N410GB reserved)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138693#138693
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com> |
Just back from LOE 2007.......13 RV10's made it to NM for the weekend.
Nice to see the family continuing to grow. Wayne Edgerton had his ther
e fresh from the paint shop and two others were there for their first fl
y-in. Gray Bridwell and I went out Saturday AM for some plane to plane
shots but it was a little bumpy for good photo shots. There are several
posts on VAF from the event worth viewing. Van even had two representa
tives at LOE this year!!!! It was a great weekend meeting more new RVer
s and enjoying RUDY's BBQ in El Paso.............DO NOT go to El Paso wi
thout a few visits to RUDY'S BBQ!
The best was the 50-60 MPH 201 degree tailwind on the return flight home
. The air-to-air chatter was busy with people reporting 220-260 MPH grou
nd speeds especially at 12-15K.
mile weather diversion.....763 NM!!!
Burned 38.1 Gals. Definitely a trip we will long remember. Looking forwa
rd to next year.
Dean
September 24, 2007 - October 08, 2007
RV10-Archive.digest.vol-cp