RV10-Archive.digest.vol-cv
November 30, 2007 - December 11, 2007
> of the 2 batteries or is it acceptable to just build the tray maybe 1/4"
> larger on each side so that I know the batteries will fit later on when I
> get them.
>
> Thanks again for all the input,
> Bill Britton
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Newman" <rnewman(at)lutron.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 7:46 AM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Dual battery
>
>
> >
> > Jesse,
> > I have more photo's of the tray design and mounting. This weekend
> > I was planning on editing those pictures along with the pictures of side
> > step bushings I designed and put them up on my web site. I forgot to
> > put my strobe power supply on the tray, but it's suppose to be on
> > there. I'll add that and put it up with all the pictures. I will
> > get to it Saturday and post a link on Sunday. I've been planning a
> > RV-10 section of my web site for the purpose of showing modifications to
> > my -10.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Bob Newman
> > www.tcwtech.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > 11/29/2007 11:10 A===========
>
>
>
_____
Your smile counts. The more smiles you share, the more we donate. Join in!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
I did the same thing with my engine from Aerosport. It showed up with 3
hours on it. However, I did very little taxi testing on it since the
airplane was so easy to handle. It will fly without much effort and
accelerates rapidly so be cautious with any intent to do high speed taxi
testing unless you are ready to take it airborne.
Marcus
40286
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
That is definitely one of the solutions I had in mind. I'd think 3 hours
would be the bare minimum to get the rings somewhat seated. I suppose doing
high speed taxi tests where the engine got a few bursts of power, then was
shut down immediately might be OK, as an alternative, with full cowling in
place. Deems, I know you would not get adequate cooling without the cooling
and some forward motion.
On Nov 30, 2007 12:13 AM, Robin Marks wrote:
Kelly, Deem,
You can categorize this under too little too late but I negotiated with my
engine builder to run my engine a total of 3 hours on the dyno instead of
their standard 1.5 hours. I did this BEFORE I sent in my deposit for the
engine. I originally thought we agreed on 4 hours but my contract said 3 so
I asked if they could run it another hour since it was still on the stand.
They said sure. for $500/hour.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Average climb rates of IO-540 |
John,
I typically climb out at 2500 rpm and full throttle at 130 KIAS leaning
above 6,000'. I get 750-1200 fpm depending on weight. Low fuel and solo
it's more like 2000 fpm at 110-120 KIAS just for fun. CHTs are well below
400. Above 9,000 I like to keep moving forward so I accept only getting
about 500 fpm.
Marcus
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:23 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Average climb rates of IO-540
Hey you guys that are already flying their RV10s with the Lycomings. Once
you have departed your airport area and start doing your slow long accent to
cruise altitude, say a eight to twelve thoousand foot climb, considering you
are all trying to not stress the engine,(No tail walking), trying to keep
temps managable, what climb rate do you use along with power setting.
Thanks,
JOhn G. 409
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Hartzell composite prop option |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
If he comes to the RV-10 dinner next Saturday, you can bet I will invest
the time. I don't want to rekindle the MT discussion so I will let this
simmer until then.
As most of you can currently conclude, Nothing absolutely nothing can
match the 2 blade Hartzell Scimitar when property balanced for
smoothness, climb and cruise on the D4A5. For sex appeal, the vote goes
to a custom painted AeroComp and we await Deems first flight with
patience.
John C.
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 1:53 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Hartzell composite prop option
don't forget the increased price tag too! If the price were right I
would buy it, but sex appeal is not worth paying too much more to have.
When I was at AOPA in Palm Springs last year I spoke with Hartzell and
asked if they had any idea of performance for a RV-10, the guy kindly
told me there wasn't much there for the price difference..
with all that said.. being Van's already has a Hartzell prop option I
can't see why they wouldn't consider adding another prop to the options
list, would probably be a win-win scenario doing so.
John- take a trip over to Van's and see what you can do. ;-)
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Cox <mailto:johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:24 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternate engines
I ran into the same dilemma with Hartzell at OSH '07. They will
offer the 3 blade composite to us, (now available on the Cirrus G3) only
if Richard VanGrunsven offers it as a kit built option through the
company. It has all the features of the aluminum Scmitar with less
weight, more climb power and less vibration transmission - plus the sex
appeal.
John Cox -
40600
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Dawson-Townsend,Timothy
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 8:24 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Alternate engines
There ARE alternative engines out there that have been
specifically developed for aircraft. Some examples:
Bombardier 'V' engines
SMA diesel
One obstacle is getting these folks to recognize kitbuilders as
a viable market. I talked to SMA a couple years back and they weren't
interested in working with kitbuilders. Thielert has said they may work
through kit manufacturers in the future, but nothing yet.
Of course, these engines aren't cheap either. SMA was $55,000
for just the engine, but it is nice. Electronic control with mechanical
backup.
TDT
40025
I love wheelpants!
Tim Dawson-Townsend
Aurora Flight Sciences
tdt(at)aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
h
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.
com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Volunteer needed! We'll fit your composite top, no charge |
| From: | "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com> |
I was born in Watsonville so I have a real magnetic draw to the town and airport.
I am finishing section 29 this weekend so the timing is perfect for a Jan
fitting.
Let me know if we can make it work. :D
Gary
Oh, by the way I am in Oklahoma [Laughing] Maybe we could get Kirk or Scottie
to 'transport' it to Watsonville.
Sorry I just couldn't resist. You don't know how much I would like to attend.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Fuselage SB
(N410GB reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149799#149799
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell composite prop option |
I saw an article today on aero-news today where Hartzell has anounced a
new 74" _*2 bld*_ COMPOSITE prop. Designed for the Diamond DA40'. They
say it's 2 kts slower but weighs 16 lbs less than it's Aluminum cousin.
It also costs $11k !
Deems
John W. Cox wrote:
>
> If he comes to the RV-10 dinner next Saturday, you can bet I will
> invest the time. I dont want to rekindle the MT discussion so I will
> let this simmer until then.
>
> As most of you can currently conclude, Nothing absolutely nothing can
> match the 2 blade Hartzell Scimitar when property balanced for
> smoothness, climb and cruise on the D4A5. For sex appeal, the vote
> goes to a custom painted AeroComp and we await Deems first flight with
> patience.
>
> John C.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Pascal
> *Sent:* Friday, November 30, 2007 1:53 PM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Hartzell composite prop option
>
> don't forget the increased price tag too! If the price were right I
> would buy it, but sex appeal is not worth paying too much more to have.
>
> When I was at AOPA in Palm Springs last year I spoke with Hartzell and
> asked if they had any idea of performance for a RV-10, the guy kindly
> told me there wasn't much there for the price difference..
>
> with all that said.. being Van's already has a Hartzell prop option I
> can't see why they wouldn't consider adding another prop to the
> options list, would probably be a win-win scenario doing so.
>
> John- take a trip over to Van's and see what you can do. ;-)
>
> Pascal
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* John W. Cox
>
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Sent:* Friday, November 30, 2007 9:24 AM
>
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Alternate engines
>
> I ran into the same dilemma with Hartzell at OSH 07. They will
> offer the 3 blade composite to us, (now available on the Cirrus
> G3) only if Richard VanGrunsven offers it as a kit built option
> through the company. It has all the features of the aluminum
> Scmitar with less weight, more climb power and less vibration
> transmission plus the sex appeal.
>
> John Cox
>
> 40600
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Dawson-Townsend,Timothy
> *Sent:* Friday, November 30, 2007 8:24 AM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Alternate engines
>
> There ARE alternative engines out there that have been
> specifically developed for aircraft. Some examples:
>
> Bombardier V engines
>
> SMA diesel
>
> One obstacle is getting these folks to recognize kitbuilders as a
> viable market. I talked to SMA a couple years back and they
> werent interested in working with kitbuilders. Thielert has said
> they may work through kit manufacturers in the future, but nothing
> yet.
>
> Of course, these engines arent cheap either. SMA was $55,000 for
> just the engine, but it is nice. Electronic control with
> mechanical backup.
>
> TDT
>
> 40025
>
> I love wheelpants!
>
> Tim Dawson-Townsend
>
> Aurora Flight Sciences
>
> tdt(at)aurora.aero
>
> 617-500-4812 (office)
>
> 617-905-4800 (mobile)
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *< Month This
> Lists Your Support Please>< FREE AWESOME Some Get>< Click Raiser. Fund List
Annual the is November>< more out find to below link Contribution>< Incentive
> Free Terrific year?s this>< Web>http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> *<
> generous your for you Thank>< Dralle,>< Forum Email RV10-List The>< Navigator
Features
> Matronics>< Un as such utilities><
> Chat, Browse, 7-Day Search>< much and Photoshare,>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> *< FORUMS WEB>< via available also content>http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
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> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
> **
> **
> **
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> **
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Avionics - Battery Bay door |
| From: | "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> |
I just installed my F/G Cabin top this week and I am presently working on the doors.
I was looking at the area behind the baggage bulkhead and thinking that
it would be great to have a door back there (between the longeron and the z-stringer)
to check on your battery, strobe power source, avionics and pitch servo.
Any ideas out there if the upper skin could be reinforced to support such a
door, or even if such an idea is practical ? Has anyone done such an installation?
It would seem a great convenience as compared to opening the baggage bulkhead
to check on the battery.
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149815#149815
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Avionics - Battery Bay door |
| From: | "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com> |
We placed an access panel on the rear bulkhead as partially detailed in
the top photo:
http://www.painttheweb.com/rv-10/AeroxO2.htm
I actually have better photos at home but you get the idea. Large access
door that can be removed by pulling the pins if you needed to work back
there for an extended period of time
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 10:37 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Avionics - Battery Bay door
I just installed my F/G Cabin top this week and I am presently working
on the doors. I was looking at the area behind the baggage bulkhead and
thinking that it would be great to have a door back there (between the
longeron and the z-stringer) to check on your battery, strobe power
source, avionics and pitch servo. Any ideas out there if the upper skin
could be reinforced to support such a door, or even if such an idea is
practical ? Has anyone done such an installation? It would seem a great
convenience as compared to opening the baggage bulkhead to check on the
battery.
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149815#149815
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
Hi Deems,
Attached are pictures of my engine on Aerosport's engine test stand,
which is on the back of a truck so they can run it outside.
Boy I can't remember exactly, and my records are at the hangar, but I
think they ran it for nearly 4 hours on the test stand. I seem to
remember they had an entry where they ran it somewhere around 45 minutes
at 2750rpm on one run.
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
So how do the engine builders cool the engines when they run them
on
their test stands for prolonged periods? The BPE dyno is inside
IIRC,
and I recall numerous pictures of engine 'test cells' where the
engine
is mounted on a trailer or the back of a truck. I'm not trying to
be
argumentative, just trying to learn and understand. I think I'll
give
Rhonda/Allen a shout and see if they've got any suggestions.
Anybody
know how Aerosport does their test runs?
Deems
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)Engine Choices |
(Taxi Testing New Engine)
I had some concerns about prolonged ground operations when I first ran
my engine so I called Bart at Aerosport. He told me that they had run
the engine fairly hard on their test stand so I didn't need to worry a
lot about ground operations, but I just needed to keep a close watch on
the engine temperatures and not let it heat up. That's what I did and so
far, crossing my fingers, I've not seen any ill affects to the engine.
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> |
| Subject: | Holes in the lid |
<>
We put ours under the cowl... 3 gps antennas and the XM antenna. Do issues, but
keep them centered between the firewall and engine mount and as high as you
can... And I'm told not to use metallic paint on the cowl.
-Mike Kraus
-RV-4 flying with antennas in the cowl
-RV-10 building
-----Original Message-----
From: "John Ackerman" <johnag5b(at)cableone.net>
Sent: 12/01/07 1:37 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Holes in the lid
Tim,
I had planned to do just that except that I planned to "line" the
holes with Al tubing. However, the structural analysis of complex
curved sandwich structures with cutouts (doors, windows, windshield)
is waaay beyond my capabilities. I have no way of knowing whether a
hard point there would make the structure as a whole weaker or
stronger, for example.
Now where am I gonna put those darn GPS/WX antennae? Darn!
John
On Nov 30, 2007, at 10:53 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> John,
>
> Did you inquire about what if you drilled an antenna hole or other
> type of hole, dug out some of the foam and filled it with epoxy
> with structural filler to go out into the foam cavity slightly,
> and then drilled a hole through your new hard spot for the
> antenna? This isn't an engineered answer, but it seems that it
> should be pretty easy to get back some structure in the cabin top
> by just reinforcing the area you drilled through...and it's an
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
A wonderful view on the perspective. Thanks Wayne
John Cox
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
Edgerton
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 5:02 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
Hi Deems,
Attached are pictures of my engine on Aerosport's engine test stand,
which is on the back of a truck so they can run it outside.
Boy I can't remember exactly, and my records are at the hangar, but I
think they ran it for nearly 4 hours on the test stand. I seem to
remember they had an entry where they ran it somewhere around 45 minutes
at 2750rpm on one run.
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
Time:
From:
Deems Davis
Subject:
Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
So how do the engine builders cool the engines when they run them
on
their test stands for prolonged periods? The BPE dyno is inside
IIRC,
and I recall numerous pictures of engine 'test cells' where the
engine
is mounted on a trailer or the back of a truck. I'm not trying to
be
argumentative, just trying to learn and understand. I think I'll
give
Rhonda/Allen a shout and see if they've got any suggestions.
Anybody
know how Aerosport does their test runs?
Deems
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Holes in the lid |
OH NO !!!!! And just when I've finished fabricating my 5 ft tall
gyroscopically gimbal stabilized antenna pylon made of space age
transparidium!!!!!!!! =-O
Some days' a guy just can't win for loosing.
On a more serious note, since I already have mounted both the WAAS GPS
and XM antennas in the DMZ, I'm going to do as Tim suggests and dig out
the foam 5/16- 3/8" back from the antenna cable holes fill it with flox
then redrill. As to the mounting screw holes................... :-\
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
Kelly McMullen wrote:
> I'm not sure why the GPS makers so obsess with having the antenna
> where it can see 360 degrees. I find with my tiny bluetooth receiver
> that I use with a PDA that I rarely have less than 7 satellites and
> usually 8-10. Seems to me that the glareshield and area in front of
> windshield should be pretty good.
>
> *
>
> *
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual battery |
Bill, here is my solution for twin Odessey 680s, split buss and dual
alternator (Z14).
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=2155&log=43554&row=8
<http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=2155&log=43554&row=8>
Thanks to everyone who has documented and posted their installations. I
just built my solution on top of everyone who had done one before. This
site and community is the best!
Bill "back to building after completing the Dishwasher install from hell
- wondering if anyone has homebuilt an aircraft with a head" Watson
#40605
Durham NC
Bill & Tami Britton wrote:
> I'm ready to build my battery box and need to modify it to fit dual
> battery's. Only problem is that I don't know which battery to use.
> Any suggestions??? How does one decide on which battery is the
> "right" battery, and where can I find measurements for these batteries
> so I know how big to make the tray.
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics - Battery Bay door |
Hey Mike... I plan to do something similar to Robin. I have seen someone
else put their ground power plug behind the baggage bulkhead, so the
access door was used for access to that as well.
I like the floors that people are putting in, in this area. It seems
there is enough *stuff* where a flat floor is useful.
Jae
40533 - wing controls
Robin Marks wrote:
>
> We placed an access panel on the rear bulkhead as partially detailed in
> the top photo:
>
> http://www.painttheweb.com/rv-10/AeroxO2.htm
>
> I actually have better photos at home but you get the idea. Large access
> door that can be removed by pulling the pins if you needed to work back
> there for an extended period of time
>
> Robin
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices |
| From: | "RV10 4JF" <ETskypilot(at)aol.com> |
Attached are a couple of pictures of my homemade engine hood. Plywood sides, 1x
and 2x structural wood for the frame and metal flashing. Construction adhesive
was used on all mating surfaces, roofing nails for the metal, duck tape and
high temp RTV to seal the joints. Simple but effective. It must be securely attached
to the engine. I set it on my engine baffles and did my engine run in prior
to the engine break in. The article I followed recommends at least distance
from spinner to tip of prop.
BTW, for my overhaul I have a 3 ring binder where I listed all part and serial
numbers for all components FWF. I also documented my engine measurements,
run in and break in info. The binder comes in handy if I ever have to research
something for a Service Letter, Service Bulletin or AD. He who buys my plane
will also get more than just a log book.
JF
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149935#149935
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0255_183.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0254_298.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0253_658.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Seat Belts Anyone? |
I need to order and install seatbelts. After waffling back and forth on
whether to go with inertial reels and the associated changes to mount
them, I've reached a new milestone in my build experience, I'm passing
up a Mod!!!!! I'm going to go with the standard Van's configuration, and
just learn to deal with the "dangling belts". So, I know Van's sells
them in Black and Grey. But I'd like to consider something else. Since
we're not doing acro, I'd also prefer a more streamlined clasp/keeper
rather than the military style. Where are others getting your belts
from? Lead times? For those who been flying are there any things you'd
do or order different if you did it over again?
Thanks
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Seat Belts Anyone? |
I went with the exotic tan from Van's. Figured I'd build some kind of a
bracket from the ceiling to hold them.
Bob K
Ditto on where I'm at, but you must be a little ahead of me.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 5:08 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Seat Belts Anyone?
I need to order and install seatbelts. After waffling back and forth on
whether to go with inertial reels and the associated changes to mount
them, I've reached a new milestone in my build experience, I'm passing
up a Mod!!!!! I'm going to go with the standard Van's configuration, and
just learn to deal with the "dangling belts". So, I know Van's sells
them in Black and Grey. But I'd like to consider something else. Since
we're not doing acro, I'd also prefer a more streamlined clasp/keeper
rather than the military style. Where are others getting your belts
from? Lead times? For those who been flying are there any things you'd
do or order different if you did it over again?
Thanks
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Belts Anyone? |
Deems,
I think the most common non-Van's ones are the Hooker Harnesses.
http://www.hookerharness.com/
The ones I have are similar but not exactly the same looking as
the "commerical" ones on the website:
http://www.hookerharness.com/aviationcommercial.php
It's kind of that normal aviation buckle with a 4-point system
on all 4 seats. (Yeah, I did away with the center bone-breaker
lug in the rear)
I don't know the exact model I ordered, but I just told them
to sell me the color I wanted (they have tons), and make the
belts "just like Randy's" from that famous RV-10 N610RV.
They work well, and don't look too unusual, and the passengers
actually appreciate it when I show them how they buckle together
and explain that the belts used are there for good safety, being
similar to 4 point racing harnesses.
You'll probably want to call them for more details on model number
of belts, but for me I didn't provide much...just what I said
above.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Deems Davis wrote:
>
> I need to order and install seatbelts. After waffling back and forth on
> whether to go with inertial reels and the associated changes to mount
> them, I've reached a new milestone in my build experience, I'm passing
> up a Mod!!!!! I'm going to go with the standard Van's configuration, and
> just learn to deal with the "dangling belts". So, I know Van's sells
> them in Black and Grey. But I'd like to consider something else. Since
> we're not doing acro, I'd also prefer a more streamlined clasp/keeper
> rather than the military style. Where are others getting your belts
> from? Lead times? For those who been flying are there any things you'd
> do or order different if you did it over again?
>
> Thanks
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> 'Its all done....Its just not put together'
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Seat Belts Anyone? |
| From: | "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> |
I thought that this was a rather elegant solution for the dangle phenomenon.
These guys at OSH had a good solution to the belts plus they had these neat battery
powered LED lights that they got at Wal Mart for $7 :D
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149995#149995
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010159_203.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
| Subject: | Dual Battery Tray detail |
Fellow RV builders.
I have added a page to our web site for details on our RV-10
construction project. I got a lot of requests for more information on
the equipment tray I designed for the "junk in the trunk" so I put
together some photos, description and a drawing in pdf format. Its no
'Olson documentary' but the basics are there. If you need more info
let me know.
So visit our site and click on the navigation tab for "RV-10 project"
www.tcwtech.com
Thanks,
Bob Newman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
| Subject: | Dual Battery/ Equipment Tray |
Fellow RV builders.
I have added a page to our web site for details on our RV-10
construction project. I got a lot of requests for more information on
the equipment tray I designed for the "junk in the trunk" so I put
together some photos, description and a drawing in pdf format. Its no
'Olson documentary' but the basics are there. If you need more info
let me know.
So visit our site and click on the navigation tab for "RV-10 project"
www.tcwtech.com
Thanks,
Bob Newman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Belts Anyone? |
Mike,
Those are some great seatbelt hanger designs in that pic by BS Aviatio
n.............seen that plane a few times. :)
DEAN (trying to get to Steinair)
_____________________________________________________________
Click here and relax in style with your own massage chair.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iieuhfbSre9vwnx0KYQY1mg
t90G4wntmrhe89fh0uU7VAYlBa/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Seat Belts Anyone? |
Deems,
I went with the standard black Van's on my RV-10, however I used Summit
Racing seat belts on my Skybolt and RV-6. They worked great and are a whole
lot cheaper. They come in a variety of colors, the downside is you have
their logo on the front (might be able to cut it off, I honestly don't
know). There are other racing belts out there that would probably work just
as well.
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 7:08 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Seat Belts Anyone?
I need to order and install seatbelts. After waffling back and forth on
whether to go with inertial reels and the associated changes to mount
them, I've reached a new milestone in my build experience, I'm passing
up a Mod!!!!! I'm going to go with the standard Van's configuration, and
just learn to deal with the "dangling belts". So, I know Van's sells
them in Black and Grey. But I'd like to consider something else. Since
we're not doing acro, I'd also prefer a more streamlined clasp/keeper
rather than the military style. Where are others getting your belts
from? Lead times? For those who been flying are there any things you'd
do or order different if you did it over again?
Thanks
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill DeRouchey <billderou(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Belts Anyone? |
Deems-
I went with Vans sexy tan belts. Ended up dropping the rear seat shoulder harnesses
to minimize the clutter in the back. The coach passengers have a nice soft
front seat as a crash pad.
It has all worked well and would do the same again (which ain't going to happen).
Good thing about building an RV-10 is we picked the right plane the first time!
Got the rear shoulder harnesses if you want them. Never used.
Bill DeRouchey
billderou(at)yahoo.com
Tim Olson wrote:
Deems,
I think the most common non-Van's ones are the Hooker Harnesses.
http://www.hookerharness.com/
The ones I have are similar but not exactly the same looking as
the "commerical" ones on the website:
http://www.hookerharness.com/aviationcommercial.php
It's kind of that normal aviation buckle with a 4-point system
on all 4 seats. (Yeah, I did away with the center bone-breaker
lug in the rear)
I don't know the exact model I ordered, but I just told them
to sell me the color I wanted (they have tons), and make the
belts "just like Randy's" from that famous RV-10 N610RV.
They work well, and don't look too unusual, and the passengers
actually appreciate it when I show them how they buckle together
and explain that the belts used are there for good safety, being
similar to 4 point racing harnesses.
You'll probably want to call them for more details on model number
of belts, but for me I didn't provide much...just what I said
above.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Deems Davis wrote:
>
> I need to order and install seatbelts. After waffling back and forth on
> whether to go with inertial reels and the associated changes to mount
> them, I've reached a new milestone in my build experience, I'm passing
> up a Mod!!!!! I'm going to go with the standard Van's configuration, and
> just learn to deal with the "dangling belts". So, I know Van's sells
> them in Black and Grey. But I'd like to consider something else. Since
> we're not doing acro, I'd also prefer a more streamlined clasp/keeper
> rather than the military style. Where are others getting your belts
> from? Lead times? For those who been flying are there any things you'd
> do or order different if you did it over again?
>
> Thanks
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> 'Its all done....Its just not put together'
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Infinity Stick Grips |
For those of you who have installed the Infinity Stick Grips, do you
have any advice on getting the grip cable routed into the top of the
stick at the top and out at the bottom.? Were you able to do it and
retain the cable sheath or did you remove the sheath? Were did you
drill the access holes?
Thanks for any ideas.
Dick Sipp
40065
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com> |
| Subject: | Infinity Stick Grips |
I was able to keep the sheathing on. I ran my cable down the i
nside of the tube, but right where the curved tube is welded to the straigh
t section where the Stick is mounted, you will have to drill a hole there t
o be able to run up inside the couple of inches of the straight section. I
f Van's would miter this joint and then weld, you could run without needing
the drilled hole. Then on the bottom end I drilled my exit hole right at
the pivot point to minimize the movement of the cable. This has worked gre
at so far, current inspection showed no issues.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250 (N519RV 340 hours)
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Sipp
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:08 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Infinity Stick Grips
For those of you who have installed the Infinity Stick Grips, do you have a
ny advice on getting the grip cable routed into the top of the stick at the
top and out at the bottom.? Were you able to do it and retain the cable s
heath or did you remove the sheath? Were did you drill the access holes?
Thanks for any ideas.
Dick Sipp
40065
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Door Edge Insulation |
| From: | "bcondrey" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
Another source is McMaster-Carr, easiest way to find it is to simply search on
"3M Silicone" and it comes up at the bottom of the page. The 10.3 oz cartridge
is 3M part number 8663, McMaster-Carr part number 74955A68 and it's $11.85.
You can also get the 3 oz tube for $8.00...
Bob #40105
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150165#150165
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Infinity Stick Grips |
I ran mine on the outside and got a cool cover from Abbey at flightline
interiors.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
40322
801-721-6080
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Sipp
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 7:08 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Infinity Stick Grips
For those of you who have installed the Infinity Stick Grips, do you have
any advice on getting the grip cable routed into the top of the stick at the
top and out at the bottom.? Were you able to do it and retain the cable
sheath or did you remove the sheath? Were did you drill the access holes?
Thanks for any ideas.
Dick Sipp
40065
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nuisance" <aflyer(at)lazy8.net> |
If you have a "VS" or above (more letters), the ALT HOLD is on any time the autopilot
is engaged, unless you go into the vertical setup screen and turn Pitch
OFF.
It is assumed that if you buy the vertical speed capable autopilot, you will use
that function for climbing and ascending. Only the base DF-II will do ALT HOLD
only in response to the ALT button.
John
--------
Life is too short to run lean of peak.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150175#150175
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net> |
| Subject: | Jeppesen updates |
I've been trying to figure out the Jeppesen Nav Data update issue. As
many of you already know, Chelton had been the update source up until
now for this information. I just talked to Jeppesen and they told me
that beginning Jan 7th they will be providing the updates for the
Chelton systems. An annual subscription with internet download on 28day
intervals will be $455 per year for Nav Data only and $505 for Nav Data
and Obstacle.
Many of you probably already know all of this, I didn't, but this is for
those who don't.
Also for those of you who have the Free Flight 1201 WAAS GPS, I talked
to them this morning and they told me if a person has unit where the
part number ends in 0303 or less, then that unit will have to be sent
back in for a software update. They said they will usually turn it
around in a week but if need be they can expedite the process.
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Ritter <mritter509(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Jeppesen updates |
These Jepp subscriptions are killing me - 430W Nav Data and Terrain, GMX 20
0 Nav Data, JeppView Charts for GMX 200 (really cool- approach plates are s
uperimposed on the moving map pages). Oh yeah almost forgot the XM weather
monthly fee. Thank goodness the GRT updates are free (sort of). Waiting
on new GRT HR screens with synthetic vision.
Mark
N410MR
From: wayne.e(at)grandecom.netTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RV10-List: J
eppesen updatesDate: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 10:29:53 -0600
I've been trying to figure out the Jeppesen Nav Data update issue. As many
of you already know, Chelton had been the update source up until now for th
is information. I just talked to Jeppesen and they told me that beginning J
an 7th they will be providing the updates for the Chelton systems. An annua
l subscription with internet download on 28day intervals will be $455 per y
ear for Nav Data only and $505 for Nav Data and Obstacle.
Many of you probably already know all of this, I didn't, but this is for th
ose who don't.
Also for those of you who have the Free Flight 1201 WAAS GPS, I talked to t
hem this morning and they told me if a person has unit where the part numbe
r ends in 0303 or less, then that unit will have to be sent back in for a s
oftware update. They said they will usually turn it around in a week but if
need be they can expedite the process.
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
_________________________________________________________________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.Download today it's FREE
!
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_sharelife_1120
07
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KiloPapa" <kilopapa(at)antelecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: prop torque help |
Found the following info:
Method for calculating torque wrench setting when using a torque wrench
with extensions:
Multiply the length of the torque wrench by the "desired torque", next
divide this number by the combined length of the wrench and extension.
The
result is the correct setting for the wrench.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------
Formula for Calculating the Effect of Torque Wrench Extensions:
M2 = M1 x L2
----
L1
Where L1 is the normal length and L2 is the extended length, M1 is the
set torque and M2
the actual torque applied to the nut.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------
Kevin
40494
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Allen, my tail is on fire here in Oregon for not having 20/20 Hindsight
vision on the poor job our state legislature just did for banning all
gasoline sales (both MOGAS and AVGAS) which does not contain at least
10% ethanol. They (the Greenies)want even more.
Can you come up with a price to Dyno an IO and O-540D4A5 run on 10%
adulterated Oregon fuel and maybe E85 so everyone can chose their engine
wisely. This is not about availability, this is about Greenies saying
AVGAS must help clean the environment and save Global Warming. Jerry
Cochran in his Subie began the call that the "Sky is Falling to the
EAA". The Tsunami hits next month.
Dave Martin, past President of OPA and past Editor of Kitplanes added
the impact ramification to LSA, STCed aircraft and other Rotax
propulsion systems. This issue will clearly affect all kit builders,
not just us RV-10 bangers. Hard data is always best and maybe you will
direct me to contract with George Braly. "Carbon credits" like Albert
Gore uses might have made more sense to the public.
John Cox
VP for Legislative Affairs - Oregon Pilots Association
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BPA
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 6:05 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
Guys,
You need to keep your taxi tests (and all ground runs) as short as
possible. On the ground there is NOT enough cooling air to keep the
CHT's in check. Several 5-10 minute tests are much better than a couple
of lengthy runs around the airport. Need to keep CHT's in the 300-330
range while testing. Many a new/overhauled engine have had the jugs
removed to 'deglaze' the barrels because of extensive ground running.
We test new engines for 1 1/2 hours on our dynamometer. Additional time
is required whether it be on the dyno or in the airplane. Keep in mind
however that extensive ground running at any time can lead to what we
call coked cylinders.
When a cylinder gets hot, the oil 'cooks' and adheres itself to the
barrel. When this happens, instead of the rings scraping the oil off the
barrel (to dissipate the generated heat and to lubricate), the rings
hydroplane over the barrel. This leads to blo-by, dirty oil, and a lot
of wiping the belly down on your bird.
Allen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
So how do the engine builders cool the engines when they run them on
their test stands for prolonged periods? The BPE dyno is inside IIRC,
and I recall numerous pictures of engine 'test cells' where the engine
is mounted on a trailer or the back of a truck. I'm not trying to be
argumentative, just trying to learn and understand. I think I'll give
Rhonda/Allen a shout and see if they've got any suggestions. Anybody
know how Aerosport does their test runs?
Deems
Kelly McMullen wrote:
> That is definitely one of the solutions I had in mind. I'd think 3
> hours would be the bare minimum to get the rings somewhat seated. I
> suppose doing high speed taxi tests where the engine got a few bursts
> of power, then was shut down immediately might be OK, as an
> alternative, with full cowling in place. Deems, I know you would not
> get adequate cooling without the cooling and some forward motion.
>
> On Nov 30, 2007 12:13 AM, Robin Marks > wrote:
>
> Kelly, Deem,
>
> You can categorize this under too little too late but I negotiated
> with my engine builder to run my engine a total of 3 hours on the
> dyno instead of their standard 1.5 hours. I did this BEFORE I sent
> in my deposit for the engine. I originally thought we agreed on 4
> hours but my contract said 3 so I asked if they could run it
> another hour since it was still on the stand. They said sure...
for
> $500/hour.
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Static Line Routing |
Does Van's document a static line routing in the plans? Especially a
routing forward of the tailcone section.
I've viewed a number of builder solutions for the tailcone section but
haven't seen what people are doing forward of the tailcone - from the
battery to the panel - and wherever else it needs to go (various air
computers imbedded in any of the electronics).
I'm trying to close up the baggage floor and this is one of the last of
the lines that need to be buried underneath.
Thanks
Bill "amazing how much homebuilding you can do when you call in sick" Watson
Durham NC
40605
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> |
| Subject: | Composite workshop for RV-10s Jan 26/27 2008 |
Working with Composites: RV-10
This course will provide an overview of the composite parts and techniques
used on Van's Aircraft RV-10 kits. We will focus on correct materials and
processes, fitting the composite top and doors, cowl, spinner, fairings, and
other composite parts. You will recieve hands-on training to identify and
use all necessary materials. Examples of completed and in-process assemblies
will be available to view.
Weather permitting, we'll be giving RV-10 demo flights to as many interested
parties as possible--indicate when you sign up if you're interested, first
come, first served, no additional charge.
Who:
Harold Bunyi and Dave Saylor. Harold holds a BS in Aeronautical Engineering
and built kitplane parts in the Phillipines for many years. He has worked at
AirCrafters for 5 years and spends nearly all his time working with
composites.
I started working with composite kitplanes in 1998. I am an A&P/IA, and I
have finished my personal RV-10 project, along with many other composite and
aluminum projects. I recieved my BS in Aeronautics from San Jose State.
When:
January 26 and 27 (Saturday & Sunday)
8AM-4PM Saturday
8AM-3PM Sunday
Where:
AirCrafters LLC
Watsonville Airport (KWVI)
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
Class size is limited to 15 builders
$350 payable by cash, check or credit card Please call or email to register,
even if you have emailed expressing interst in the last few days. 50%
deposit is required before January 11. Balance due before class starts.
Nearest major airport is San Jose International. 45 minute drive to KWVI.
Best Lodging is Watsonville Comfort Inn: 831-728-2300. Other lodging is
available nearby. Aircraft parking is available at AirCrafters. Please call
if we can help with logistics.
Many thanks for your interest,
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
A couple of questions:
What studies did they do to show there are no issues with all the current aircraft?
What effect do you all see with this if we want to fly our IO-540's out there?
It really is too bad the special interest groups have so much power. I don't know
how they do it.
If they only knew the effect of 100LL vs. what other countries allow. Pollution
is a global problem and I can promise that 100LL is not the issue. I've traveled
the world in my oil and gas career and they need to go visit a few third
world countries. We are the leaders in burning energy cleanly. I want clean
air too but lets be smart about it.
Just wait til China starts driving cars, I can promise they won't have the restrictions
we have, and oil will blow through $100/bbl with ease.
I love the ads on TV that GM has: "I want to drive an electric car!" And where
are you going to get the electricity?
Sorry, stupidity bothers me. Just concerned about flying to OR now. I do think
this ethanol fad will be gone in 24 months when they find out how much energy
it takes to produce it and that we can't continue to increase the production
of it.
Go get em John!!! Talk some sense into them.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: John W. Cox <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2007 12:18:16 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
Allen, my tail is on fire here in Oregon for not having 20/20 Hindsight
vision on the poor job our state legislature just did for banning all
gasoline sales (both MOGAS and AVGAS) which does not contain at least
10% ethanol. They (the Greenies)want even more.
Can you come up with a price to Dyno an IO and O-540D4A5 run on 10%
adulterated Oregon fuel and maybe E85 so everyone can chose their
engine
wisely. This is not about availability, this is about Greenies saying
AVGAS must help clean the environment and save Global Warming. Jerry
Cochran in his Subie began the call that the "Sky is Falling to the
EAA". The Tsunami hits next month.
Dave Martin, past President of OPA and past Editor of Kitplanes added
the impact ramification to LSA, STCed aircraft and other Rotax
propulsion systems. This issue will clearly affect all kit builders,
not just us RV-10 bangers. Hard data is always best and maybe you will
direct me to contract with George Braly. "Carbon credits" like Albert
Gore uses might have made more sense to the public.
John Cox
VP for Legislative Affairs - Oregon Pilots Association
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BPA
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 6:05 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
Guys,
You need to keep your taxi tests (and all ground runs) as short as
possible. On the ground there is NOT enough cooling air to keep the
CHT's in check. Several 5-10 minute tests are much better than a couple
of lengthy runs around the airport. Need to keep CHT's in the 300-330
range while testing. Many a new/overhauled engine have had the jugs
removed to 'deglaze' the barrels because of extensive ground running.
We test new engines for 1 1/2 hours on our dynamometer. Additional time
is required whether it be on the dyno or in the airplane. Keep in mind
however that extensive ground running at any time can lead to what we
call coked cylinders.
When a cylinder gets hot, the oil 'cooks' and adheres itself to the
barrel. When this happens, instead of the rings scraping the oil off
the
barrel (to dissipate the generated heat and to lubricate), the rings
hydroplane over the barrel. This leads to blo-by, dirty oil, and a lot
of wiping the belly down on your bird.
Allen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
So how do the engine builders cool the engines when they run them on
their test stands for prolonged periods? The BPE dyno is inside IIRC,
and I recall numerous pictures of engine 'test cells' where the engine
is mounted on a trailer or the back of a truck. I'm not trying to be
argumentative, just trying to learn and understand. I think I'll give
Rhonda/Allen a shout and see if they've got any suggestions. Anybody
know how Aerosport does their test runs?
Deems
Kelly McMullen wrote:
> That is definitely one of the solutions I had in mind. I'd think 3
> hours would be the bare minimum to get the rings somewhat seated. I
> suppose doing high speed taxi tests where the engine got a few bursts
> of power, then was shut down immediately might be OK, as an
> alternative, with full cowling in place. Deems, I know you would not
> get adequate cooling without the cooling and some forward motion.
>
> On Nov 30, 2007 12:13 AM, Robin Marks > wrote:
>
> Kelly, Deem,
>
> You can categorize this under too little too late but I
negotiated
> with my engine builder to run my engine a total of 3 hours on the
> dyno instead of their standard 1.5 hours. I did this BEFORE I
sent
> in my deposit for the engine. I originally thought we agreed on 4
> hours but my contract said 3 so I asked if they could run it
> another hour since it was still on the stand. They said sure...
for
> $500/hour.
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
| From: | "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com> |
To the List:
This is a response from Monty regarding testing of Ethanol in engines
for aviation. He asked me to post it directly to the list.
Thanks!
Rhonda
"John:
A few years ago we did some ethanol tests including E-85, straight
ethanol, oxygenated fuel with ETBE, and some other tests. As far as
ethanol is concerned with the performance of the engine there was a
significant power loss when burning the same amount of ethanol in terms
of weight compared to av-gas.
Some facts: (not all)
Straight ethanol will not vaporize below 50 F. and an engine to be
operated on straight ethanol MUST be started with a more volatile fuel.
There are some vapor pressure issues with diluted av-gas, of which I
have forgotten the details. Ethanol-gas mixes MAY be harmful to fuel
hoses. This is a test which needs to be done. I am not sure what the
results would be.
Contrary to popular belief, ethanol fuels can be made to detonate.
Adding ethanol to av-gas (or mogas either) requires some strict quality
control on the ethanol product. I don't believe those controls are in
place. Av-gas is strictly controlled at the refinery level and I
seriously doubt that the refiners are going to add ethanol to av-gas
because of the potential of litigation in the event of a fuel related
accident. In the case of mogas there is not much to fear from the
attorneys because the failed vehicle just pulls to the side of the road.
A little bit different in an airplane.
The "greenies" have petitioned the EPA to do a study on the effects of
lead in av-gas with regard to the atmosphere. I guess your legislators
could not wait for the results of that study and "jumped the gun" trying
to force the issue? The legislatures in question have created a very
unsafe, if not illegal statute. Av-gas specifications are mandated by
the engine manufacturers and the whole set of certification regulations
is based on the fuel to be used. This includes the engine, its pumps,
airframe hoses, weight and balance issues (assuming ethanol is of a
different weight than av-gas), performance criteria, operational
ceilings, turbocharger materials, etc. In 10 words or less, the FAA
controls what fuels are suitable.
The costs to test for all the aspects of ethanol reduced fuels are
likely to be enormous. It may be a smart move by the aviation community
as a whole, to seek an injunction against this legislation until such
times as the testing required can be completed. This may take several
years.
I'll stay in touch and you do the same with me, please.
Monty Barrett
Barrett Precision Engines, Inc."
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 1:18 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
Allen, my tail is on fire here in Oregon for not having 20/20 Hindsight
vision on the poor job our state legislature just did for banning all
gasoline sales (both MOGAS and AVGAS) which does not contain at least
10% ethanol. They (the Greenies)want even more.
Can you come up with a price to Dyno an IO and O-540D4A5 run on 10%
adulterated Oregon fuel and maybe E85 so everyone can chose their engine
wisely. This is not about availability, this is about Greenies saying
AVGAS must help clean the environment and save Global Warming. Jerry
Cochran in his Subie began the call that the "Sky is Falling to the
EAA". The Tsunami hits next month.
Dave Martin, past President of OPA and past Editor of Kitplanes added
the impact ramification to LSA, STCed aircraft and other Rotax
propulsion systems. This issue will clearly affect all kit builders,
not just us RV-10 bangers. Hard data is always best and maybe you will
direct me to contract with George Braly. "Carbon credits" like Albert
Gore uses might have made more sense to the public.
John Cox
VP for Legislative Affairs - Oregon Pilots Association
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
Might I point out that your Oregon legislature has no jurisdiction over
aviation fuel. Zero. None, etc. Federal preemption over aviation is still
the law of the 50 states.
If 10% ethanol is added to current 100LL, it won't meet the specs for the
fuel, especially for vapor pressure, as that addition raises the vapor
pressure a fuel inch..so your 7.0 Avgas will be 8.0 give or take a tenth.
Second, the FAA has prohibited ethanol in fuel for all aircraft that don't
hold an STC to use it.
As Rhonda mentioned, ethanol is detrimental to our fuel systems, as the
gaskets in your carburetor/fuel injection, the O-rings in your valves, and
any rubber hoses in your system are all subject to attack by the ethanol.
Then any bare aluminum in your fuel tanks is subject to corrosion by the
ethanol.
In other words, your politicians stepped in a big pile of doo-doo and unless
they want the FAA on one side and Arthur Alan Wolk on the other side handing
them their head for lunch, they best undo it. Maybe the EAA should be
involved as well.
On 12/3/07, John W. Cox wrote:
>
>
> Allen, my tail is on fire here in Oregon for not having 20/20 Hindsight
> vision on the poor job our state legislature just did for banning all
> gasoline sales (both MOGAS and AVGAS) which does not contain at least
> 10% ethanol. They (the Greenies)want even more.
>
> Can you come up with a price to Dyno an IO and O-540D4A5 run on 10%
> adulterated Oregon fuel and maybe E85 so everyone can chose their engine
> wisely. This is not about availability, this is about Greenies saying
> AVGAS must help clean the environment and save Global Warming. Jerry
> Cochran in his Subie began the call that the "Sky is Falling to the
> EAA". The Tsunami hits next month.
>
> Dave Martin, past President of OPA and past Editor of Kitplanes added
> the impact ramification to LSA, STCed aircraft and other Rotax
> propulsion systems. This issue will clearly affect all kit builders,
> not just us RV-10 bangers. Hard data is always best and maybe you will
> direct me to contract with George Braly. "Carbon credits" like Albert
> Gore uses might have made more sense to the public.
>
> John Cox
> VP for Legislative Affairs - Oregon Pilots Association
>
> -
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Forsythe <rv10builder(at)4sythe.com> |
| Subject: | Help requested with aileron alignment question/issue |
All,
I am trying to determine if I have a problem or not with my inboard or
outboard aileron bracket assembly. I was test fitting my first aileron
on my wing and noticed that when deflected down, my aileron brushes with
the upper skin, but only on the inboard portion of the aileron. On the
outboard portion of the aileron, it does not touch the skin. This does
not take place until the aileron is deflected about 4 inches downward at
the trailing edge. From what I have been able to find, this seems like
it exceeds what is needed during setup.
When I measure the distance from the trailing edge of the upper skin, to
the center of the bearing hole on the brackets, I get a difference of
about 1/8 inch; the outer bracket is further away. This is why my
inboard portion of the aileron touches (when extended down) and the
outboard does not. In researching this issue, I can see where it is
common for the flaps to rub. I just could not find any mention of
ailerons rubbing and even more so, that one side rubs (inboard) and the
other does not (outboard). I have checked each bracket to verify that
they are seated properly on the rear spar and the doublers. Both of my
wings measure out the same (ie. both inner brackets are closer than the
outer bracket).
For comparison purposes, I was wondering of one or more of you could
check and see if you have differences in this distance between the
outboard and inboard bracket bearings and the trailing edge of the upper
wing skin. I have also noticed that when the aileron is in the neutral
position, the inbound side of the aileron is slightly higher than the
skin. If I put a straight edge on the wing skin, the aileron holds it
up on the inbound side but on the outbound side, there is a slight gap
between the straight edge and the aileron.
Thanks in advance everyone,
Kent
Kent Forsythe
Mason, Ohio
40338 - Wings (done except lower skins) Control Surfaces (in progress)
Slow Build All The Way..and way...and way!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Let's take it the next step Kelly to mandate MOGAS has 10% + Ethanol in
all 50 states. Now all of those Peterson and EAA STCed aircraft
refueling in Orygun will pass Ethanol through the lines, seals and over
the gaskets. Rotax requires not more than 50% Avgas to be added to
Mogas or extensive additional repair work is required.
Dave Martin (EAA 78011) representing the EAA will make the plea tomorrow
before this panel of idiots. These are politicians I have not voted
for, do not endorse and know little of the consequence of their action
to revenue collection reductions, negative mpact to tourism and economic
develop and aviation safety. We will soon be the Western Appalachia of
the US of A. There is a distinct possibility that one of the
politicians is the son of the acting Director of Aviation.
The Greenies are everywhere. Be vigilant out there. It is soon to be
an election year.
John (EAA 565497)
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
Might I point out that your Oregon legislature has no jurisdiction over
aviation fuel. Zero. None, etc. Federal preemption over aviation is
still the law of the 50 states.
If 10% ethanol is added to current 100LL, it won't meet the specs for
the fuel, especially for vapor pressure, as that addition raises the
vapor pressure a fuel inch..so your 7.0 Avgas will be 8.0 give or take a
tenth. Second, the FAA has prohibited ethanol in fuel for all aircraft
that don't hold an STC to use it.
As Rhonda mentioned, ethanol is detrimental to our fuel systems, as the
gaskets in your carburetor/fuel injection, the O-rings in your valves,
and any rubber hoses in your system are all subject to attack by the
ethanol. Then any bare aluminum in your fuel tanks is subject to
corrosion by the ethanol.
In other words, your politicians stepped in a big pile of doo-doo and
unless they want the FAA on one side and Arthur Alan Wolk on the other
side handing them their head for lunch, they best undo it. Maybe the EAA
should be involved as well.
On 12/3/07, John W. Cox wrote:
Allen, my tail is on fire here in Oregon for not having 20/20 Hindsight
vision on the poor job our state legislature just did for banning all
gasoline sales (both MOGAS and AVGAS) which does not contain at least
10% ethanol. They (the Greenies)want even more.
Can you come up with a price to Dyno an IO and O-540D4A5 run on 10%
adulterated Oregon fuel and maybe E85 so everyone can chose their engine
wisely. This is not about availability, this is about Greenies saying
AVGAS must help clean the environment and save Global Warming. Jerry
Cochran in his Subie began the call that the "Sky is Falling to the
EAA". The Tsunami hits next month.
Dave Martin, past President of OPA and past Editor of Kitplanes added
the impact ramification to LSA, STCed aircraft and other Rotax
propulsion systems. This issue will clearly affect all kit builders,
not just us RV-10 bangers. Hard data is always best and maybe you will
direct me to contract with George Braly. "Carbon credits" like Albert
Gore uses might have made more sense to the public.
John Cox
VP for Legislative Affairs - Oregon Pilots Association
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
The phrases were snuck in at the last minute after being passed by the
House (March 1st), forwarded to the Senate (June 21st) and signed by the
Governor (July 3rd). The bill was introduced by the Director of the
Oregon State, Department of Energy (January 8th) to promote ethanol
production from Oregon grain products. These types of administrative
not legislative introductions score extremely high with a Passage Rate.
Bill introduced by duly elected legislator have an extremely low Passage
Rate.
No one said a word until a vigilant EAA member in an adjacent state,
flying an alternate powered RV whispered the "King is wearing no
clothes". Effective Date September 27. Promulgated into Public policy
next month. Even national EAA heard whisper after it was too late.
John C.
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
A couple of questions:
What studies did they do to show there are no issues with all the
current aircraft?
What effect do you all see with this if we want to fly our IO-540's out
there?
It really is too bad the special interest groups have so much power. I
don't know how they do it.
If they only knew the effect of 100LL vs. what other countries allow.
Pollution is a global problem and I can promise that 100LL is not the
issue. I've traveled the world in my oil and gas career and they need
to go visit a few third world countries. We are the leaders in burning
energy cleanly. I want clean air too but lets be smart about it.
Just wait til China starts driving cars, I can promise they won't have
the restrictions we have, and oil will blow through $100/bbl with ease.
I love the ads on TV that GM has: "I want to drive an electric car!"
And where are you going to get the electricity?
Sorry, stupidity bothers me. Just concerned about flying to OR now. I
do think this ethanol fad will be gone in 24 months when they find out
how much energy it takes to produce it and that we can't continue to
increase the production of it.
Go get em John!!! Talk some sense into them.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: John W. Cox <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2007 12:18:16 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
Allen, my tail is on fire here in Oregon for not having 20/20 Hindsight
vision on the poor job our state legislature just did for banning all
gasoline sales (both MOGAS and AVGAS) which does not contain at least
10% ethanol. They (the Greenies)want even more.
Can you come up with a price to Dyno an IO and O-540D4A5 run on 10%
adulterated Oregon fuel and maybe E85 so everyone can chose their engine
wisely. This is not about availability, this is about Greenies saying
AVGAS must help clean the environment and save Global Warming. Jerry
Cochran in his Subie began the call that the "Sky is Falling to the
EAA". The Tsunami hits next month.
Dave Martin, past President of OPA and past Editor of Kitplanes added
the impact ramification to LSA, STCed aircraft and other Rotax
propulsion systems. This issue will clearly affect all kit builders,
not just us RV-10 bangers. Hard data is always best and maybe you will
direct me to contract with George Braly. "Carbon credits" like Albert
Gore uses might have made more sense to the public.
John Cox
VP for Legislative Affairs - Oregon Pilots Association
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BPA
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 6:05 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
Guys,
You need to keep your taxi tests (and all ground runs) as short as
possible. On the ground there is NOT enough cooling air to keep the
CHT's in check. Several 5-10 minute tests are much better than a couple
of lengthy runs around the airport. Need to keep CHT's in the 300-330
range while testing. Many a new/overhauled engine have had the jugs
removed to 'deglaze' the barrels because of extensive ground running.
We test new engines for 1 1/2 hours on our dynamometer. Additional time
is required whether it be on the dyno or in the airplane. Keep in mind
however that extensive ground running at any time can lead to what we
call coked cylinders.
When a cylinder gets hot, the oil 'cooks' and adheres itself to the
barrel. When this happens, instead of the rings scraping the oil off the
barrel (to dissipate the generated heat and to lubricate), the rings
hydroplane over the barrel. This leads to blo-by, dirty oil, and a lot
of wiping the belly down on your bird.
Allen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
So how do the engine builders cool the engines when they run them on
their test stands for prolonged periods? The BPE dyno is inside IIRC,
and I recall numerous pictures of engine 'test cells' where the engine
is mounted on a trailer or the back of a truck. I'm not trying to be
argumentative, just trying to learn and understand. I think I'll give
Rhonda/Allen a shout and see if they've got any suggestions. Anybody
know how Aerosport does their test runs?
Deems
Kelly McMullen wrote:
> That is definitely one of the solutions I had in mind. I'd think 3
> hours would be the bare minimum to get the rings somewhat seated. I
> suppose doing high speed taxi tests where the engine got a few bursts
> of power, then was shut down immediately might be OK, as an
> alternative, with full cowling in place. Deems, I know you would not
> get adequate cooling without the cooling and some forward motion.
>
> On Nov 30, 2007 12:13 AM, Robin Marks > wrote:
>
> Kelly, Deem,
>
> You can categorize this under too little too late but I negotiated
> with my engine builder to run my engine a total of 3 hours on the
> dyno instead of their standard 1.5 hours. I did this BEFORE I
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Static Line Routing |
Turns out that what I missed is the fact that there is a close-out panel
on the right side of baggage bay. I thought it stayed open.
Thanks Bob!
Bill "too many meds to continue working tonight" Watson
40605
MauleDriver wrote:
>
> Does Van's document a static line routing in the plans? Especially a
> routing forward of the tailcone section.
>
> I've viewed a number of builder solutions for the tailcone section but
> haven't seen what people are doing forward of the tailcone - from the
> battery to the panel - and wherever else it needs to go (various air
> computers imbedded in any of the electronics).
>
> I'm trying to close up the baggage floor and this is one of the last
> of the lines that need to be buried underneath.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
Well, I doubt that ethanol will be mandated nationwide, simply because there
isn't a viable production capacity at least until they solve cellulosic
ethanol, as there isn't enough corn and much of the environmental community
recognizes that corn derived ethanol at any higher than production levels is
an environmental disaster. Not to mention that it does very little to
increase overall fuel supplies.
Hmm, can we spell serious problems for LSA if Rotax really has a problem
with Avgas?
Where is the boating community on this? Can't imagine it causing anything
but trouble for fuel tanks and engines next to water.
On 12/3/07, John W. Cox wrote:
>
> Let's take it the next step Kelly to mandate MOGAS has 10% + Ethanol in
> all 50 states. Now all of those Peterson and EAA STCed aircraft refueling
> in Orygun will pass Ethanol through the lines, seals and over the gaskets.
> Rotax requires not more than 50% Avgas to be added to Mogas or extensive
> additional repair work is required.
>
>
> Dave Martin (EAA 78011) representing the EAA will make the plea tomorrow
> before this panel of idiots. These are politicians I have not voted for, do
> not endorse and know little of the consequence of their action to revenue
> collection reductions, negative mpact to tourism and economic develop and
> aviation safety. We will soon be the Western Appalachia of the US of A.
> There is a distinct possibility that one of the politicians is the son of
> the acting Director of Aviation.
>
>
> The Greenies are everywhere. Be vigilant out there. It is soon to be an
> election year.
>
>
> John (EAA 565497)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net> |
| Subject: | AC registration time |
I thought that some of you would like to know how long it takes an AC
registration back from the FAA. I mailed my completed app on Nov 6
and the FAA mailed the form on Nov 26. I was expecting about 2
months. My RV-10 is now officially known as N475PV. In the mail,
along with the official registration, I got a separate mailing with
N475PV on the cover from Bruce's Custom Covers wondering if I might
be interested in a cover for my "new airplane." That must be a
record for information being sold and marketed.
Sheldon Olesen
40080
Less than 50 hours of actual construction left
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net> |
| Subject: | "Innies" and "outies", step fairing |
What's the best way to turn an "outie" dent to an "innie" that is
easily fillable?
Has anyone tried to do a fairing around the the step as it protrudes
from the fuselage? If so, was it worth the effort?
Sheldon Olesen
40080
facing sanding and finishing hell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com> |
G'day all,
Vans has finally received their back ordered Unison Slick Start systems.
Was curious as to how many are going with this option and whether anyone
has a wiring diagram/installation manual so I can prepare for the
installation.
Cheers,
Ron
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
John, I saw on another list that the OR ethanol mandate was ONLY for Mogas,
not Avgas. Of course that still leaves all the STC'd folks and LSA folks in
trouble, as well as the marine folks. I'll have to ask what folks around my
home drome do, since we have 10% for all the winter months, mandatory, but
optional in the summer.
On 12/3/07, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Well, I doubt that ethanol will be mandated nationwide, simply because
> there isn't a viable production capacity at least until they solve
> cellulosic ethanol, as there isn't enough corn and much of the environmental
> community recognizes that corn derived ethanol at any higher than production
> levels is an environmental disaster. Not to mention that it does very little
> to increase overall fuel supplies.
> Hmm, can we spell serious problems for LSA if Rotax really has a problem
> with Avgas?
> Where is the boating community on this? Can't imagine it causing anything
> but trouble for fuel tanks and engines next to water.
>
> On 12/3/07, John W. Cox wrote:
> >
> > Let's take it the next step Kelly to mandate MOGAS has 10% + Ethanol in
> > all 50 states. Now all of those Peterson and EAA STCed aircraft refueling
> > in Orygun will pass Ethanol through the lines, seals and over the gaskets.
> > Rotax requires not more than 50% Avgas to be added to Mogas or extensive
> > additional repair work is required.
> >
> >
> >
> > Dave Martin (EAA 78011) representing the EAA will make the plea tomorrow
> > before this panel of idiots. These are politicians I have not voted for, do
> > not endorse and know little of the consequence of their action to revenue
> > collection reductions, negative mpact to tourism and economic develop and
> > aviation safety. We will soon be the Western Appalachia of the US of A.
> > There is a distinct possibility that one of the politicians is the son of
> > the acting Director of Aviation.
> >
> >
> >
> > The Greenies are everywhere. Be vigilant out there. It is soon to be
> > an election year.
> >
> >
> >
> > John (EAA 565497)
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Static Line Routing |
| From: | "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> |
Myself and several other West Coast builders are running it along the right (co-pilot)
side. From what I have seen, most of us are running either 4 or 5 conduits
from the rear to the front. Two or three along each side with the static
line along the right side. The plans really force you to do this "pre-wiring"
work before you are really ready. You will probably need to cut a few holes. I
went and bought the Van's pre-wiring kit which is really a pretty good deal.
The wiring is all pre-measured and is really a good value for the electronic micro-cephalic.
I find that one of my three complaints about the great RV10 plans are :
1. the baggage and rear seat floors should be nut plated for work, electrical installation,
and inspections
2. the finish quality of the fiberglass cabin top/ doors - the quality of the
product is poor
3. The inner (fwd) sub instrument panel makes for a difficult avionics installation
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150310#150310
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: "Innies" and "outies", step fairing |
| From: | "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> |
I have yet to see a good one. A few months back someone had a post describing how
to get the baggage door right. You might want to do a search. I hate it each
time I look at my badly fitting baggage door. I might rebuild it. They described
hoe they crimped the frame till it fit correctly
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150311#150311
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tad Sargent" <Tadsargent(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Wing root Fairing |
Hey guys I am in the final assembly stages of a 10. My questions has to do
with the gap between the fuse and the wing root fairing. My 7 has a rubber
seal to make up the gap, I cannot find this pictured or a gap specified for
the 10. Is the fairing trimmed to a 32nd and that it or did I miss the
rubber piece somewhter.
Thanks,
Tad Sargent
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV10-List Digest
Server
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 2:58 AM
Subject: RV10-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 12/03/07
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James K Hovis" <james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
In Missouri, we have a mandate that ALL gasoline sold must contain at
least 10% ethanol beginning Jan. 1, 2009. However, at least it looks
like someone had good sense to exempt aircraft from the bill, see:
http://www.house.mo.gov/bills061/bilsum/commit/sHB1270C.htm
Then again, if the fuel trucks are carrying blended fuel, won't that
contaminate straight MOGAS destined for the local airports? Or are the
fuel vendors going to have to use separate trucks to deliver MOGAS to
airports same as they do now for Avgas? I don't think so. The supply
of "clean" MOGAS at Missouri airports will dry up. My local airport
has a pump and tank for 87 MOGAS.
Kevin Hovis.
On 12/3/07, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> John, I saw on another list that the OR ethanol mandate was ONLY for Mogas,
> not Avgas. Of course that still leaves all the STC'd folks and LSA folks in
> trouble, as well as the marine folks. I'll have to ask what folks around my
> home drome do, since we have 10% for all the winter months, mandatory, but
> optional in the summer.
>
> On 12/3/07, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> >
> > Well, I doubt that ethanol will be mandated nationwide, simply because
> > there isn't a viable production capacity at least until they solve
> > cellulosic ethanol, as there isn't enough corn and much of the
> environmental
> > community recognizes that corn derived ethanol at any higher than
> production
> > levels is an environmental disaster. Not to mention that it does very
> little
> > to increase overall fuel supplies.
> > Hmm, can we spell serious problems for LSA if Rotax really has a problem
> > with Avgas?
> > Where is the boating community on this? Can't imagine it causing anything
> > but trouble for fuel tanks and engines next to water.
> >
> > On 12/3/07, John W. Cox wrote:
> > >
> > > Let's take it the next step Kelly to mandate MOGAS has 10% + Ethanol in
> > > all 50 states. Now all of those Peterson and EAA STCed aircraft
> refueling
> > > in Orygun will pass Ethanol through the lines, seals and over the
> gaskets.
> > > Rotax requires not more than 50% Avgas to be added to Mogas or
> extensive
> > > additional repair work is required.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dave Martin (EAA 78011) representing the EAA will make the plea tomorrow
> > > before this panel of idiots. These are politicians I have not voted
> for, do
> > > not endorse and know little of the consequence of their action to
> revenue
> > > collection reductions, negative mpact to tourism and economic develop
> and
> > > aviation safety. We will soon be the Western Appalachia of the US of A.
> > > There is a distinct possibility that one of the politicians is the son
> of
> > > the acting Director of Aviation.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The Greenies are everywhere. Be vigilant out there. It is soon to be
> > > an election year.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > John (EAA 565497)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Static Line Routing |
Thanks for the insight.
I've taken a similar yet slightly different route. I agree that the
Van's pre-wiring kit is great. I took the approach of getting the plans
for it without the kit so I could adapt it to a dual batt, dual
alternator, split bus design. Then ordering the parts I needed
separately. Some parts I didn't use - some I ordered multiples of. I
used that basic left side run of wires from the batteries to the
firewall and duplicated the clamps, brackets and routing on the left
side tool. Having to make so many electrical decisions before closing
the floor seems like a pain but I bit the bullet and tried to put a plan
in place for all systems that require front to back wire runs. I've now
filled both left and right cable paths with cable. I've added 2
conduits to enable future wire runs be for now they are empty.
It now dawns on me that while it would be nice to wait a while before
being forced to run cables, there is a benefit to getting the bulk of
that done before added the fiberglass top and stuff. But nut plates
would be great.
AirMike wrote:
>
> Myself and several other West Coast builders are running it along the right (co-pilot)
side. From what I have seen, most of us are running either 4 or 5 conduits
from the rear to the front. Two or three along each side with the static
line along the right side. The plans really force you to do this "pre-wiring"
work before you are really ready. You will probably need to cut a few holes.
I went and bought the Van's pre-wiring kit which is really a pretty good deal.
The wiring is all pre-measured and is really a good value for the electronic
micro-cephalic.
>
> I find that one of my three complaints about the great RV10 plans are :
>
> 1. the baggage and rear seat floors should be nut plated for work, electrical
installation, and inspections
> 2. the finish quality of the fiberglass cabin top/ doors - the quality of the
product is poor
> 3. The inner (fwd) sub instrument panel makes for a difficult avionics installation
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust
> Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
In a message dated 12/4/2007 9:30:02 AM Central Standard Time,
james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com writes:
Then again, if the fuel trucks are carrying blended fuel, won't that
contaminate straight MOGAS destined for the local airports? Or are the
fuel vendors going to have to use separate trucks to deliver MOGAS to
airports same as they do now for Avgas? I don't think so. The supply
of "clean" MOGAS at Missouri airports will dry up. My local airport
has a pump and tank for 87 MOGAS.
Kevin don't know how your gas is delivered but generally because the tankers
are carrying leaded gas for 100LL they cannot use those tanks for any other
product, thus it's my understanding that these tank wagons are dedicated
tanks...that's another reason we pay extra for aviation fuel.
P
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James K Hovis" <james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
You're right. I'm afraid delivering straight MOGAS (no ethanol) will
end up in the same boat, only a few suppliers willing to dedicate a
truck or two to deliver to the few airports who sell MOGAS (as
compared to the ethanol-gas delivered to the thousands of filling
stations). The price could end up the same as Avgas. But at least
premium gasoline in Missouri won't be required to have ethanol. You'll
probably have to ask to see if the premium in the tanks at the filling
station does or doesn't have ethanol. Think the $5 an hour clerk will
know???
Kevin H.
On 12/4/07, GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/4/2007 9:30:02 AM Central Standard Time,
> james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com writes:
>
> Then again, if the fuel trucks are carrying blended fuel, won't that
> contaminate straight MOGAS destined for the local airports? Or are the
> fuel vendors going to have to use separate trucks to deliver MOGAS to
> airports same as they do now for Avgas? I don't think so. The supply
> of "clean" MOGAS at Missouri airports will dry up. My local airport
> has a pump and tank for 87 MOGAS.
>
>
> Kevin don't know how your gas is delivered but generally because the
> tankers
> are carrying leaded gas for 100LL they cannot use those tanks for any other
> product, thus it's my understanding that these tank wagons are dedicated
> tanks...that's another reason we pay extra for aviation fuel.
>
> P
>
>
> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
> products.
> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
In a message dated 12/4/2007 12:08:29 PM Central Standard Time,
james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com writes:
Think the $5 an hour clerk will
know???
That's why you should test it yourself if you're using staight MoGas sans
alcohol...
P
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | unused F-1003A instrument panel blank |
| From: | "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> |
Anyone have an F-1003A instrument panel that they will not be using that they would like to sell? I'm looking to have the stock panel waterjet cut by the folks at experimental air (http://www.experimentalair.com/) and would like an extra panel to experiment on. Van's seems to have raised the price of the F-1003A panel to $55. I can get a 2' X 4' X 0.063 sheet of 6061-T6 from Spruce for about $36, but I know some builders are opting for fiberglass or the oversized panel from Stein in place of the stock panel. I can give a home to that leftover stock panel.
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
-------- Original Message --------
>
> Another source is McMaster-Carr, easiest way to find it is to simply search on
"3M Silicone" and it comes up at the bottom of the page. The 10.3 oz cartridge
is 3M part number 8663, McMaster-Carr part number 74955A68 and it's $11.85.
You can also get the 3 oz tube for $8.00...
>
> Bob #40105
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150165#150165
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | unused F-1003A instrument panel blank |
You might consider using your original panel for the experiment and making
the final panel out of .090. It provides a stiffer panel for big EFIS
cutouts.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 11:43 AM
Subject: RV10-List: unused F-1003A instrument panel blank
Anyone have an F-1003A instrument panel that they will not be using that
they would like to sell? I'm looking to have the stock panel waterjet cut
by the folks at experimental air (http://www.experimentalair.com/) and would
like an extra panel to experiment on. Van's seems to have raised the price
of the F-1003A panel to $55. I can get a 2' X 4' X 0.063 sheet of 6061-T6
from Spruce for about $36, but I know some builders are opting for
fiberglass or the oversized panel from Stein in place of the stock panel. I
can give a home to that leftover stock panel.
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
-------- Original Message --------
> -->
>
> Another source is McMaster-Carr, easiest way to find it is to simply
search on "3M Silicone" and it comes up at the bottom of the page. The 10.3
oz cartridge is 3M part number 8663, McMaster-Carr part number 74955A68 and
it's $11.85. You can also get the 3 oz tube for $8.00...
>
> Bob #40105
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150165#150165
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill DeRouchey <billderou(at)yahoo.com> |
I've got one on my aircraft wired to a retard breaker magneto. Works well. Only
problem I have had is the Slick Start seems to have caused a ringing on the P-lead
that interfered with my GRT EIS 6000 counting ticks. Solved the problem
by moving the tach sensor to the other mag.
I recall that they were going to redesign this unit and I wonder if the delivery
problems were a result of this engineering/manufacturing effort. You may have
the new design. Anyway, I will look for a wiring diagram.
Bill DeRouchey
billderou(at)yahoo.com
N939SB, flying
"McGANN, Ron" wrote:
G'day all,
Vans has finally received their back ordered Unison Slick Start systems. Was
curious as to how many are going with this option and whether anyone has a wiring
diagram/installation manual so I can prepare for the installation.
Cheers,
Ron
"Warning: The information contained in this email and any attached files is confidential
to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended recipient,
any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any attachments is expressly
prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately.
VIRUS: Every care has been taken to ensure this email and its attachments
are virus free, however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email
is not the sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to your
computer."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com> |
Thanks Bill,
On a related subject, I have dual mags and was going to add a tacho
source select switch (left/right) for the GRT EIS 6000. Is this
something that others have done/recommend? How effective is a mag check
at run-up without this switch?
TIA
Ron
187 finishing
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
DeRouchey
Sent: Wednesday, 5 December 2007 8:00 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Slick Start
I've got one on my aircraft wired to a retard breaker magneto.
Works well. Only problem I have had is the Slick Start seems to have
caused a ringing on the P-lead that interfered with my GRT EIS 6000
counting ticks. Solved the problem by moving the tach sensor to the
other mag.
I recall that they were going to redesign this unit and I wonder
if the delivery problems were a result of this engineering/manufacturing
effort. You may have the new design. Anyway, I will look for a wiring
diagram.
Bill DeRouchey
billderou(at)yahoo.com
N939SB, flying
"McGANN, Ron" wrote:
G'day all,
Vans has finally received their back ordered Unison
Slick Start systems. Was curious as to how many are going with this
option and whether anyone has a wiring diagram/installation manual so I
can prepare for the installation.
Cheers,
Ron
"Warning: The information contained in this email and
any attached files is confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are
not the intended recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this
email or any attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received
this email in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care
has been taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks
Admin.
Un/Subscription,
Forums!
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
your computer."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> |
Here's what you need for the tach signal, assuming you're using two tach
switches and not a key switch.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 1:41 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Slick Start
Thanks Bill,
On a related subject, I have dual mags and was going to add a tacho source
select switch (left/right) for the GRT EIS 6000. Is this something that
others have done/recommend? How effective is a mag check at run-up without
this switch?
TIA
Ron
187 finishing
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill DeRouchey
Sent: Wednesday, 5 December 2007 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Slick Start
I've got one on my aircraft wired to a retard breaker magneto. Works well.
Only problem I have had is the Slick Start seems to have caused a ringing on
the P-lead that interfered with my GRT EIS 6000 counting ticks. Solved the
problem by moving the tach sensor to the other mag.
I recall that they were going to redesign this unit and I wonder if the
delivery problems were a result of this engineering/manufacturing effort.
You may have the new design. Anyway, I will look for a wiring diagram.
Bill DeRouchey
billderou(at)yahoo.com
N939SB, flying
"McGANN, Ron" wrote:
G'day all,
Vans has finally received their back ordered Unison Slick Start systems.
Was curious as to how many are going with this option and whether anyone has
a wiring diagram/installation manual so I can prepare for the installation.
Cheers,
Ron
"Warning: The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any attachments
is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please
notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been taken to ensure this
email and its attachments are virus free, however, any loss or damage
incurred in using this email is not the sender's responsibility. It is
your responsibility to ensure virus checks
.matronics.com/contribution
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ics.com
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
your computer."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Boone" <david555(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: unused F-1003A instrument panel blank |
I have one you can have. E-mail me @ david555(at)cox.net. David O Boone
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 1:42 PM
Subject: RV10-List: unused F-1003A instrument panel blank
>
> Anyone have an F-1003A instrument panel that they will not be using that
they would like to sell? I'm looking to have the stock panel waterjet cut
by the folks at experimental air (http://www.experimentalair.com/) and would
like an extra panel to experiment on. Van's seems to have raised the price
of the F-1003A panel to $55. I can get a 2' X 4' X 0.063 sheet of 6061-T6
from Spruce for about $36, but I know some builders are opting for
fiberglass or the oversized panel from Stein in place of the stock panel. I
can give a home to that leftover stock panel.
>
> William
> http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> >
> > Another source is McMaster-Carr, easiest way to find it is to simply
search on "3M Silicone" and it comes up at the bottom of the page. The 10.3
oz cartridge is 3M part number 8663, McMaster-Carr part number 74955A68 and
it's $11.85. You can also get the 3 oz tube for $8.00...
> >
> > Bob #40105
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150165#150165
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
12/1/2007 12:05 PM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | What is connected to your always on battery bus? |
I can't quite figure out what will end up going on my battery bus. At
least other than a dome light or baggage light.. and then perhaps not.
Please share what you are putting on your battery bus and in particular
for you flyers, what did you put on yours and what do you recommend to
future flyers
My panel will probably be a dual Chelton with the standard goodies but I
don't beleive the battery bus gets involved much there.
Bill Watson
Durham NC
40605
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neal George" <n8zg(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | What is connected to your always on battery bus? |
Bill -
I'm not flying yet, but I put the panel flood (LED strips from Stein), Map
spot (LED from Stein), PMags, and a cigar receptacle on the battery bus.
Baggage bay lights will be the dry-cell powered stick-on LED lights from
Lowe's.
Neal E. George
2023 Everglades Drive
Navarre, FL 32566
Home - 850-515-0640
Cell - 850-218-4838
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 6:46 PM
Subject: RV10-List: What is connected to your always on battery bus?
I can't quite figure out what will end up going on my battery bus. At least
other than a dome light or baggage light.. and then perhaps not.
Please share what you are putting on your battery bus and in particular for
you flyers, what did you put on yours and what do you recommend to future
flyers
My panel will probably be a dual Chelton with the standard goodies but I
don't beleive the battery bus gets involved much there.
Bill Watson
Durham NC
40605
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill DeRouchey <billderou(at)yahoo.com> |
Ron-
From only my own experience .... I simply listen to the engine for smoothness
and a small rpm drop and ignore the fact that the rpm reads zero. My sub-conscious
can spot a miss within 10 milliseconds of the event and awake me from the
dead in another 10 milliseconds. But thats just me.
If you feel more comfortable with the switch then do it. I was seeing a problem
with the EIS reporting (with an alert) the engine running at 3000, 3200, 3550
rpm. Usually I saw this in a decent and believed I was decending too fast
or something was wrong with my governor. Then I saw the alert flying the pattern
when the engine could not have possibly been overrevving. Looked at the P-leads
with an oscilloscope and the two P-leads had vastly different patterns. With
the Slick Start it looked like ringing and the other mag looked more like
I expected to see. Recently changed the sensor to the mag without the Slick Start
and I have not seen the over rev since, but I would feel more comfortable
with this fix if I had another 10 hours, or so, on the aircraft since it happened
randomly.
So, go ahead and add the switch but if you see an overrev and it is pointing
to the Slick Start mag then change it to the other mag to verify the problem.
It would be good to get more input on this problem and the switch could be a great
debugging tool.
Bill
"McGANN, Ron" wrote:
Thanks Bill,
On a related subject, I have dual mags and was going to add a tacho source select
switch (left/right) for the GRT EIS 6000. Is this something that others
have done/recommend? How effective is a mag check at run-up without this switch?
TIA
Ron
187 finishing
---------------------------------
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill DeRouchey
Sent: Wednesday, 5 December 2007 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Slick Start
I've got one on my aircraft wired to a retard breaker magneto. Works well. Only
problem I have had is the Slick Start seems to have caused a ringing on the
P-lead that interfered with my GRT EIS 6000 counting ticks. Solved the problem
by moving the tach sensor to the other mag.
I recall that they were going to redesign this unit and I wonder if the delivery
problems were a result of this engineering/manufacturing effort. You may have
the new design. Anyway, I will look for a wiring diagram.
Bill DeRouchey
billderou(at)yahoo.com
N939SB, flying
"McGANN, Ron" wrote:
G'day all,
Vans has finally received their back ordered Unison Slick Start systems. Was
curious as to how many are going with this option and whether anyone has a wiring
diagram/installation manual so I can prepare for the installation.
Cheers,
Ron
"Warning: The information contained in this email and any attached files is confidential
to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended recipient,
any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any attachments is expressly
prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately.
VIRUS: Every care has been taken to ensure this email and its attachments
are virus free, however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email
is not the sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks
.matronics.com/contribution p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List ics.com
"Warning: The information contained in this email and any attached files is confidential
to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended recipient,
any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any attachments is expressly
prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately.
VIRUS: Every care has been taken to ensure this email and its attachments
are virus free, however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email
is not the sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to your
computer."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What is connected to your always on battery bus? |
I have flaps and electronic igniton on the battery bus.
Jerry Calvert
----- Original Message -----
From: "MauleDriver" <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 6:46 PM
Subject: RV10-List: What is connected to your always on battery bus?
>
> I can't quite figure out what will end up going on my battery bus. At
> least other than a dome light or baggage light.. and then perhaps not.
>
> Please share what you are putting on your battery bus and in particular
> for you flyers, what did you put on yours and what do you recommend to
> future flyers
>
> My panel will probably be a dual Chelton with the standard goodies but I
> don't beleive the battery bus gets involved much there.
>
> Bill Watson
> Durham NC
> 40605
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Weight and Balance |
I got my empty weight and it is 1641 at 108.74 inches. How does that
compare to the ones flying? Seems a little aft to me considering what
happens when put some weight in the back seat. The only things I did not
have on/in the plane were the wheel fairings.
Any opinions?
Rene'
N423CF
40322
finish..or something like that
801-721-6080
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | What is connected to your always on battery bus? |
| From: | "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> |
items on the battery buss:
-the Battery relay itself
-Electronic ignition -if installed
-clock if separate of efis
-EFIS Keepalive if any
-hobbs meter
-and oh yeah, the dome and baggage light; but what do you tie it to to keep it
from accidentaly killing your dual battery? Baggage door and cabin door?
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
-------- Original Message --------
> From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
>
>
> I can't quite figure out what will end up going on my battery bus. At
> least other than a dome light or baggage light.. and then perhaps not.
>
> Please share what you are putting on your battery bus and in particular
> for you flyers, what did you put on yours and what do you recommend to
> future flyers
>
> My panel will probably be a dual Chelton with the standard goodies but I
> don't beleive the battery bus gets involved much there.
>
> Bill Watson
> Durham NC
> 40605
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv10builder <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net> |
I needed to wrap up the engine installation so I gave up on SS since I
was hearing several more months. I swapped out my retard breaker mag for
a impulse coupled mag. Too bad...
AeroElectric Connection article on wiring attached.
Brian Sutherland
Nashville, TN 40308
(still finishing!)
McGANN, Ron wrote:
>
> G'day all,
>
> Vans has finally received their back ordered Unison Slick Start
> systems. Was curious as to how many are going with this option and
> whether anyone has a wiring diagram/installation manual so I can
> prepare for the installation.
>
> Cheers,
> Ron
>
>
> "Warning:
> The information contained in this email and any attached files is
> confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
> recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
> attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
> in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
> taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
> however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
> sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
> checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
> your computer."
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GenGrumpy(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
Rene,
Mine was 1576 lbs and 109.24 inches empty, but no interior and no paint yet
.
60+ hours on it at these numbers, with absolutely no adverse handling
qualities either 1 pilot or 4 pax and full fuel.
grumpy
N184JM and still waiting on Picasso to finish my paint job!!
In a message dated 12/4/2007 8:39:09 P.M. Central Standard Time,
rene(at)felker.com writes:
I got my empty weight and it is 1641 at 108.74 inches. How does that
compare to the ones flying? Seems a little aft to me considering what happ
ens when
put some weight in the back seat. The only things I did not have on/in the
plane were the wheel fairings.
Any opinions?
Rene'
N423CF
40322
finish.or something like that
801-721-6080
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List)
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What is connected to your always on battery bus? |
| From: | "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> |
Can you share the rationale for the flaps?
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
-------- Original Message --------
>
> I have flaps and electronic igniton on the battery bus.
> Jerry Calvert
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "MauleDriver" <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
> To: "RV10-List Digest Server"
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 6:46 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: What is connected to your always on battery bus?
>
>
> >
> > I can't quite figure out what will end up going on my battery bus. At
> > least other than a dome light or baggage light.. and then perhaps not.
> >
> > Please share what you are putting on your battery bus and in particular
> > for you flyers, what did you put on yours and what do you recommend to
> > future flyers
> >
> > My panel will probably be a dual Chelton with the standard goodies but I
> > don't beleive the battery bus gets involved much there.
> >
> > Bill Watson
> > Durham NC
> > 40605
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: unused F-1003A instrument panel blank |
| From: | "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> |
Thanks to all who responded and offered me their "left over" F-1003A instrument panel blank. Local builder Bob Newman (http://www.tcwtech.com/RV-10%20construction%20project.htm) has graciously offered me his since he will be going with a composite panel similar to his Glastar (http://www.tcwtech.com/New%20Panel%20N99RN.JPG). While I'm there to pick up the panel, I'll take the opportunity to closely examine his Safety-Trim (http://www.tcwtech.com/Aviation%20Products.htm).
Seems quite a few folks have left over instrument panels. One year at OSH we should
have all builders bring their left over parts (panels, crotch strap clip,
primer pump mount, door handles, etc) put it in a pile and raffle it all off
with the proceeds going to charity. I bet that would be one big pile of parts.
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 1:42 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: unused F-1003A instrument panel blank
>
>
> >
> > Anyone have an F-1003A instrument panel that they will not be using that
> they would like to sell? I'm looking to have the stock panel waterjet cut
> by the folks at experimental air (http://www.experimentalair.com/) and would
> like an extra panel to experiment on. Van's seems to have raised the price
> of the F-1003A panel to $55. I can get a 2' X 4' X 0.063 sheet of 6061-T6
> from Spruce for about $36, but I know some builders are opting for
> fiberglass or the oversized panel from Stein in place of the stock panel. I
> can give a home to that leftover stock panel.
> >
> > William
> > http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > >
> > > Another source is McMaster-Carr, easiest way to find it is to simply
> search on "3M Silicone" and it comes up at the bottom of the page. The 10.3
> oz cartridge is 3M part number 8663, McMaster-Carr part number 74955A68 and
> it's $11.85. You can also get the 3 oz tube for $8.00...
> > >
> > > Bob #40105
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Read this topic online here:
> > >
> > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150165#150165
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> 12/1/2007 12:05 PM
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What is connected to your always on battery bus? |
----- Original Message -----
From: "MauleDriver" <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 7:46 PM
Subject: RV10-List: What is connected to your always on battery bus?
If you are planning on some form of electronic ignition, that might be a
good choice for battery bus power.
Ignition power then works just like a mag, as long as the switch is on and
the breaker or fuse is good the ignition is powered regardless of any other
failures.
Dick Sipp
40065 N110DV
buttoning up at the airport
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Annual Price increase? |
Has anyone heard any rumblings about any increase this year? Is it time to
figure how much can order before New Years? Does Vans usually shut down for
some part of the Holidays? How early does one have to order?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
Ethanol isn't like lead. If a tank truck took a load of gasahol, then a load
of straight mogas, the contamination wouldn't be enough to worry about.
Also, it doesn't matter where you are, your nearest bulk plant has mogas
without any ethanol, because they can't put ethanol in the pipelines, it has
to come by rail or tank truck. Whether they would sell you any, for your
"yacht", I don't know.
That was what used to do in Alaska...just use somebody's boat registration
number, go to bulk plant with a 100 gal tank in back of pickup, and fill it
with straight mogas.
On 12/4/07, James K Hovis wrote:
>
>
> You're right. I'm afraid delivering straight MOGAS (no ethanol) will
> end up in the same boat, only a few suppliers willing to dedicate a
> truck or two to deliver to the few airports who sell MOGAS (as
> compared to the ethanol-gas delivered to the thousands of filling
> stations). The price could end up the same as Avgas. But at least
> premium gasoline in Missouri won't be required to have ethanol. You'll
> probably have to ask to see if the premium in the tanks at the filling
> station does or doesn't have ethanol. Think the $5 an hour clerk will
> know???
>
> Kevin H.
>
> On 12/4/07, GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 12/4/2007 9:30:02 AM Central Standard Time,
> > james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com writes:
> >
> > Then again, if the fuel trucks are carrying blended fuel, won't that
> > contaminate straight MOGAS destined for the local airports? Or are the
> > fuel vendors going to have to use separate trucks to deliver MOGAS to
> > airports same as they do now for Avgas? I don't think so. The supply
> > of "clean" MOGAS at Missouri airports will dry up. My local airport
> > has a pump and tank for 87 MOGAS.
> >
> >
> >
> > Kevin don't know how your gas is delivered but generally because the
> > tankers
> > are carrying leaded gas for 100LL they cannot use those tanks for
> any other
> > product, thus it's my understanding that these tank wagons are dedicated
> > tanks...that's another reason we pay extra for aviation fuel.
> >
> > P
> >
> >
> >
> > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's
> hottest
> > products.
> > (
> http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dawson-Townsend,Timothy" <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero> |
We wanted SlickStart for our Bendix retard (shower of sparks) magneto,
but low and behold, as part of Slick's "redesign" of the SlickStart,
they dropped the SS1002 model, which was for Bendix (non-Slick)
magnetos. Now they only support Slick mags, at least for retard
magnetos.
Most dealers don't stock SlickStart (instead shipping from factory), or
had expended their stock, but after much searching, I found possibly the
only remaining SS1002 Slick Start module in the world, in Germany.
Installing it soon . . .
TDT
40025
I love wheelpants!
Tim Dawson-Townsend
Aurora Flight Sciences
tdt(at)aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Hukill" <cjhukill(at)cox.net> |
I have a cigar lighter on my hot battery bus on my RV8, and I use it to
trickle charge the battery during long periods of non use. Just connect
a cigar lighter plug to a 1amp battery tender, and let it do it's thing.
Chris Hukill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Annual Price increase? |
Did you call Van's and ask them?
----- Original Message -----
From: Kelly McMullen
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 8:27 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Annual Price increase?
Has anyone heard any rumblings about any increase this year? Is it
time to figure how much can order before New Years? Does Vans usually
shut down for some part of the Holidays? How early does one have to
order?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Annual Price increase? |
I'm about to, but figured some folks here might have picked up something
from the rumor mill. Sometimes back channel info is very good.
On 12/5/07, Pascal wrote:
>
> Did you call Van's and ask them?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Kelly McMullen
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 04, 2007 8:27 PM
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Annual Price increase?
>
> Has anyone heard any rumblings about any increase this year? Is it time to
> figure how much can order before New Years? Does Vans usually shut down for
> some part of the Holidays? How early does one have to order?
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Annual Price increase? |
Good news for those running a bit behind schedule. Vans says price increase
won't happen until Feb. 1, 2008.
On 12/5/07, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> I'm about to, but figured some folks here might have picked up something
> from the rumor mill. Sometimes back channel info is very good.
>
> On 12/5/07, Pascal wrote:
> >
> > Did you call Van's and ask them?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Kelly McMullen
> > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 04, 2007 8:27 PM
> > *Subject:* RV10-List: Annual Price increase?
> >
> > Has anyone heard any rumblings about any increase this year? Is it time
> > to figure how much can order before New Years? Does Vans usually shut down
> > for some part of the Holidays? How early does one have to order?
> >
> > *
> >
> > href="
> > http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> >
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">
> > http://forums.matronics.com
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> >
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com
> >
> > *
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell composite prop option |
| From: | "FlyerJumper" <mark.lanier(at)lmco.com> |
Debbie Dewey's -10 has been flying with the Aerocomposites 3-blade for well over a year now. It flew in the 2006 AirVenture Cup http://www.airventurecup.com/racers/results/2006results.html
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150648#150648
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Simon Barber <simon(at)superduper.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
The GAMI PRISM ignition system supposedly lets a TIO-540 run with mogas
without problems - I don't know if it also works on blended mogas. The
key is the ignition system senses the cylinder pressure build up and
decay and adjusts the spark timing according to what is acutally
happening in the cylinder, not according to a pre-fixed table. The
beauty of this is it automatically adjusts to differences in fuel, or
other unmeasured variables like humidity that affect how quickly the
burn happens. Some modern cars do the same thing, without using the
pressure sensors that GAMI use (which are very expensive) - they use the
spark plug itself as a sensor, putting a voltage across the gap after
ignition and measuring the small current flow through the flame. It's
called ion-sensing. As far as I can tell no aircraft ignition systems
use ion-sensing yet - but this is a potential way to solve some of the
fuel problems cheaply. Of course this does nothing for vapor lock or ice
issues.
GAMI's PRISM (apparently not yet available, but being certified):
http://www.gami.com/prism.html
A paper on ion sensing in cars:
http://www.fs.isy.liu.se/~larer/Projects/main.html
Simon
Kelly McMullen wrote:
> Ethanol isn't like lead. If a tank truck took a load of gasahol, then
> a load of straight mogas, the contamination wouldn't be enough to
> worry about. Also, it doesn't matter where you are, your nearest bulk
> plant has mogas without any ethanol, because they can't put ethanol in
> the pipelines, it has to come by rail or tank truck. Whether they
> would sell you any, for your "yacht", I don't know.
> That was what used to do in Alaska...just use somebody's boat
> registration number, go to bulk plant with a 100 gal tank in back of
> pickup, and fill it with straight mogas.
>
> On 12/4/07, *James K Hovis* > wrote:
>
> >
>
> You're right. I'm afraid delivering straight MOGAS (no ethanol) will
> end up in the same boat, only a few suppliers willing to dedicate a
> truck or two to deliver to the few airports who sell MOGAS (as
> compared to the ethanol-gas delivered to the thousands of filling
> stations). The price could end up the same as Avgas. But at least
> premium gasoline in Missouri won't be required to have ethanol. You'll
> probably have to ask to see if the premium in the tanks at the filling
> station does or doesn't have ethanol. Think the $5 an hour clerk will
> know???
>
> Kevin H.
>
> On 12/4/07, GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
> > wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 12/4/2007 9:30:02 AM Central Standard Time,
> > james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com writes:
> >
> > Then again, if the fuel trucks are carrying blended fuel, won't
> that
> > contaminate straight MOGAS destined for the local airports? Or
> are the
> > fuel vendors going to have to use separate trucks to deliver
> MOGAS to
> > airports same as they do now for Avgas? I don't think so. The
> supply
> > of "clean" MOGAS at Missouri airports will dry up. My local
> airport
> > has a pump and tank for 87 MOGAS.
> >
> >
> >
> > Kevin don't know how your gas is delivered but generally because the
> > tankers
> > are carrying leaded gas for 100LL they cannot use those tanks
> for any other
> > product, thus it's my understanding that these tank wagons are
> dedicated
> > tanks...that's another reason we pay extra for aviation fuel.
> >
> > P
> >
> >
> >
> > **************************************Check out AOL's list of
> 2007's hottest
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
| Subject: | fuel lines, tunnel to wing |
Over the last couple of weeks we had a thread on flexible fuel lines and
the Van's hard tubing lines. I've made my choice and decided to
machine bushings to allow the use of standard bulkhead fittings at the
tunnel and wing root. I've added a photo gallery on this on our web
site. Here's the direct link. Just scroll to the bottom of the page
on this link
http://www.tcwtech.com/RV-10%20construction%20project.htm
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies
.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | fuel lines, tunnel to wing |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Flexible fuel lines are exactly the kind of consumable that must be
periodically replaced in all aircraft (based on date of product
manufacture) and are subject to the ravages of Ethanol mandated into
gasoline. We need to hear Dick VanGrunsven weigh in on Oregon's new
bill - HB2210B. Numerous states were approached by Greenies at the same
time (Michigan, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania). Oregon's Department of
Agriculture just had a meeting yesterday and admitted a poorly crafted
and detrimental piece of legislation and yet the freight train is still
coming down the tracks next month.
Choose those lines wisely. Know if the VAN supplied fuel quantity
sending unit gaskets are susceptible to Ethanol laden gasoline products
in our tanks. The Help Desk at VANS needs to hear your concerns. GAMIs
PRISM product remains years from availability to help with ignition
timing control.
John Cox - 40600
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob-tcw
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 6:50 PM
Subject: RV10-List: fuel lines, tunnel to wing
Over the last couple of weeks we had a thread on flexible fuel lines and
the Van's hard tubing lines. I've made my choice and decided to
machine bushings to allow the use of standard bulkhead fittings at the
tunnel and wing root. I've added a photo gallery on this on our web
site. Here's the direct link. Just scroll to the bottom of the page
on this link
http://www.tcwtech.com/RV-10%20construction%20project.htm
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies
.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com> |
| Subject: | fuel lines, tunnel to wing |
I have been fretting over the fuel line installation lately and I too have
considered installing standard bulkhead fittings in some similar fashion.
The one thing that has kept me from making up my mind and doing this is the
following from the 43.13. I don't think this was mentioned in the last go
around on fuel lines so I thought I would bring it up.
Chapter 8, Section 3, Paragraph 8-31, part c Alignment states:
"Never install a straight length of tubing between two rigidly mounted
fittings. Always incorporate at least one bend between such fittings to
absorb strain caused by vibration and temperature changes."
Does the fitting in the tunnel wall qualify as a rigidly mounted? If so
does anyone "in the know" know what qualifies as a proper bend? I am
wondering if this is the primary reason for the way Vans has done it without
fittings? I'm curious of others thoughts.
Ben Westfall
#40579
PDX
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob-tcw
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 6:50 PM
Subject: RV10-List: fuel lines, tunnel to wing
Over the last couple of weeks we had a thread on flexible fuel lines and the
Van's hard tubing lines. I've made my choice and decided to machine
bushings to allow the use of standard bulkhead fittings at the tunnel and
wing root. I've added a photo gallery on this on our web site. Here's
the direct link. Just scroll to the bottom of the page on this link
http://www.tcwtech.com/RV-10%20construction%20project.htm
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies
.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel lines, tunnel to wing |
John,
I don't know why there is much thinking of using mogas in an RV. Most
have relatively high compression pistons requiring at least 91/96 octane
avgas, which is somewhere around 96-98 pump octane mogas...pretty
unobtainable. 92 octane mogas is likely to be okay if one is careful not
to push the timing, etc.
Also, I don't know about the current formulations of PRC, but the PRC
compounds used in the '60s model Mooneys won't stand up to the aromatics
in mogas and turns to leaking mush. I saw one such plane that the owner
pretty much had to convert to bladders because of his illicit use of
premium mogas in 180hp Mooney.
So, I'd worry more about the PRC with mogas than having to replace any
flex lines. One could obtain teflon flex lines that would tolerate any
hydrocarbon, with no life limit. Parker 124J is one variety.
John W. Cox wrote:
>
> Flexible fuel lines are exactly the kind of consumable that must be
> periodically replaced in all aircraft (based on date of product
> manufacture) and are subject to the ravages of Ethanol mandated into
> gasoline. We need to hear Dick VanGrunsven weigh in on Oregons new
> bill HB2210B. Numerous states were approached by Greenies at the
> same time (Michigan, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania). Oregons Department
> of Agriculture just had a meeting yesterday and admitted a poorly
> crafted and detrimental piece of legislation and yet the freight train
> is still coming down the tracks next month.
>
> Choose those lines wisely. Know if the VAN supplied fuel quantity
> sending unit gaskets are susceptible to Ethanol laden gasoline
> products in our tanks. The Help Desk at VANS needs to hear your
> concerns. GAMIs PRISM product remains years from availability to help
> with ignition timing control.
>
> John Cox - 40600
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | fuel lines, tunnel to wing |
One thing to consider is that most of the tubing around the fuel selector
already has some bends in each section; additionally the fixed fittings are
also aluminum and fixed in aluminum, so they all have the same coefficient
of linear expansion; They will expand together and shrink together.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 8:40 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: fuel lines, tunnel to wing
I have been fretting over the fuel line installation lately and I too have
considered installing standard bulkhead fittings in some similar fashion.
The one thing that has kept me from making up my mind and doing this is the
following from the 43.13. I don't think this was mentioned in the last go
around on fuel lines so I thought I would bring it up.
Chapter 8, Section 3, Paragraph 8-31, part c Alignment states:
"Never install a straight length of tubing between two rigidly mounted
fittings. Always incorporate at least one bend between such fittings to
absorb strain caused by vibration and temperature changes."
Does the fitting in the tunnel wall qualify as a rigidly mounted? If so
does anyone "in the know" know what qualifies as a proper bend? I am
wondering if this is the primary reason for the way Vans has done it without
fittings? I'm curious of others thoughts.
Ben Westfall
#40579
PDX
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob-tcw
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 6:50 PM
Subject: RV10-List: fuel lines, tunnel to wing
Over the last couple of weeks we had a thread on flexible fuel lines and the
Van's hard tubing lines. I've made my choice and decided to machine
bushings to allow the use of standard bulkhead fittings at the tunnel and
wing root. I've added a photo gallery on this on our web site. Here's
the direct link. Just scroll to the bottom of the page on this link
http://www.tcwtech.com/RV-10%20construction%20project.htm
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies
.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics List Fund Raiser - 2007 List of Contributors |
Dear Listers,
I would like to thank everyone that made a Contribution in support of the Lists
this year! It was really nice to hear all great comments people had regarding
the Lists! As I have said many times before, running these Lists is a labor
of love. Your generosity during the List Fund Raiser underscores the great sentiments
people have made regarding the Lists.
If you haven't yet made a Contribution in support of this year's Fund Raiser please
feel free to do so. The great List Fund Raiser gifts will be available on
the Contribution site for just a little while longer, so hurry and make your
Contribution and get your great gift! Once again, the URL for the Contribution
web site is:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ), Jon Croke of Homebuilt HELP ( http://www.homebuilthelp.com ) and Bob Nuckolls of AeroElectric ( http://www.aeroelectric.com ) for their extremely generous support during this year's Fund Raiser through the contribution of discounted merchandise. These are great guys that support the aviation industry and I encourage each and every Lister to have a look at their products. Thank you Andy, Jon and Bob!! Your support is very much appreciated!
And finally, below you will find a web link to the 2007 List of Contributors current
as of 12/6/07! Have a look at this list of names as these are the people
that make all of these List services possible! I can't thank each of you enough
for your support and great feedback during this year's Fund Raiser!
THANK YOU!
http://www.matronics.com/loc/2007.html
I will be shipping out all of the gifts in the next few weeks and hope to have
everything out by the end of the month. In most cases, gifts will be shipped
via US Postal Service.
Once again, thank you for making this year's List Fund Raiser successful!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS |
I may have ask this question before but are any using the blast tubes in the
baffling to cool the mags. never had these on a certified or experimental;
never needed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel lines, tunnel to wing |
MauleDriver wrote:
> I came to understand the purpose of this istem 43.13 before I knew it
> was a standard. I found it aggravating to no end that none of the
> components of the fuel system that reside in the tunnel are lined up.
> Each one (boost pump, filter, flow meter) are all misaligned slightly
> so one can never "/install a straight length of tubing between two
> rigidly mounted fittings". / the fittings all require a job in the
> tubing between them. /
> /
> I did the same bulkhead fitting thing that Bob and others have done.
> Note that there are 90 degree bends in both pieces of tubing so it
> would appear to conform to 8-31. Bob did a real nice job on the
> bushings so that there are 2 inner bushing to keep the fitting
> centered in the oversize hole, and 2 outer bushing to capture it in
> the hole. I took a simpler route and just used 2 outer bushing that
> depend on being clamped in place by the nut on the bulkhead fitting.
> Given 8-31, the lazy approach would possibly provide even greater
> allowance for vibration and temperature changes. Though I would
> emphasize there is no need for this in this situation. And Bob's
> bushings really looks like the proper way to do it.
>
> Overall, I'm thinking that the bulkhead fitting is the best way to
> handle this situation next to Van's original design. It simplies the
> bending required and facilitates installation of the Andair valve.
> It does add more points of possible failure.
>
> Bill Watson
>
> Ben Westfall wrote:
>>
>> I have been fretting over the fuel line installation lately and I too
>> have considered installing standard bulkhead fittings in some similar
>> fashion. The one thing that has kept me from making up my mind and
>> doing this is the following from the 43.13. I don't think this was
>> mentioned in the last go around on fuel lines so I thought I would
>> bring it up.
>>
>>
>>
>> /Chapter 8, Section 3, Paragraph 8-31, part c Alignment states:/
>>
>> / /
>>
>> /"Never install a straight length of tubing between two rigidly
>> mounted fittings. Always incorporate at least one bend between such
>> fittings to absorb strain caused by vibration and temperature changes." /
>>
>>
>>
>> Does the fitting in the tunnel wall qualify as a rigidly mounted? If
>> so does anyone "in the know" know what qualifies as a proper bend? I
>> am wondering if this is the primary reason for the way Vans has done
>> it without fittings? I'm curious of others thoughts.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ben Westfall
>>
>> #40579
>>
>> PDX
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS |
I spoke to Allen Barrett about the need for blast tubes. what I learned
was that Mags are not fond of heat. In a Pitts, it is nearly mandatory
to put in blast tubes as there is a lot of heat behind the baffles, and
the mags don't last without the tubes. I don't know how much heat the
-10 holds in the aft engine compartment, but living in the desert, I'm
sensitive to anything that's affected by the heat, and so I put one in
for each mag. I used the Van's corrugated plastic tube, and wrapped each
with a coil of #10 coper wire to bend/aim them at the mags. However,
based on what I learned in the paragraph below, I believe this is going
to be too much and I may fashion some restrictors that provide a smaller
diameter opening. I saw Allen Judy's highly modified RV6 @ OSH this year
and he's got blast tubes of a very small diameter Scat Tube ( 3/8"?)
On a related note, I recently spoke with a -10 builder in OK who just
completed his plane and is now flying. He reported the HTS (Hot Tunnel
Syndrome) phenomena. He has John Forsling exhaust and the Forsling
Ceramic coated heat muffs. One mounted on each side of the engine on the
exhaust stacks. John warned us that the heat muffs might not produce
enough heat as the exhaust is ceramic coated both inside and outside.
That turned out NOT to be the case. The air to the muffs is fed by a
single 2" opening at the rear baffle behind cyl #5. The solution to the
heat problem for this builder was to put a restrictor plate in front of
the 2" air inlet. He experimented with how big the hole in the
restrictor plate should be and FOUND THAT 1/4 " ONE QUARTER OF AN INCH
was all that was needed to supply all the air He needed for front and
aft cabin on a 40 degree OAT day!!!!! It solved his HTS problem and
still provided all of the heat he needs.
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
David McNeill wrote:
> I may have ask this question before but are any using the blast tubes
> in the baffling to cool the mags. never had these on a certified or
> experimental; never needed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> |
| Subject: | BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS |
I have one too
-----Original Message-----
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Sent: 12/06/07 12:23 PM
Subject: RV10-List: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS
I may have ask this question before but are any using the blast tubes in the
baffling to cool the mags. never had these on a certified or experimental;
never needed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Newman" <rnewman(at)lutron.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel lines, tunnel to wing |
I looked into this straight tube between rigid supports thing as
discussed in 43.13 and I identified two issues regarding this specific
installation that allow me to be satisfied that in this particular
installation I'm not going to have a problem.
First, the mounting point at the tunnel is not very stiff. The
tunnel is 0.050" aluminum and there is no support stiffening in the area
in the same axis as the fuel line. (ie no other bulkheads at a right
angle to the tunnel) So effectively there is not a lot holding the
tunnel end fitting thereby allowing expansion, contraction and vibration
to provide little stress to the tube. Try pushing on the tunnel
sheetmetal near the location where this tube fitting goes and you'll see
how much and easily the tunnel flexes at this point.
Second, This area of the aircraft is incrediblly stiff in the
bending direction allong the axis of the fuel tube. The fuel line is
running parallel to the wing spar and about 8" in front of the spar,
the amount of structural flexing in this area better be darn little!
So those were the two things I considered before I made the
bushings,
I do note though, ensuring the fuel tubing length is correct is now
much more important, and if I'm not satisfied with this approach, I'll
loose the bulkhead fitting at the wing root and just use the one that
allows a nice transition into the tunnel.
-Bob Newman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS |
Very good real life example of a fix for HTS. Anybody else with HTS
want to try covering the holes and seeing what happens? One thing I
know from experience is that I have never seen the heater valves
opened very far. You will cook yourself if you do.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Dec 6, 2007, at 1:45 PM, Deems Davis wrote:
>
> I spoke to Allen Barrett about the need for blast tubes. what I
> learned was that Mags are not fond of heat. In a Pitts, it is
> nearly mandatory to put in blast tubes as there is a lot of heat
> behind the baffles, and the mags don't last without the tubes. I
> don't know how much heat the -10 holds in the aft engine
> compartment, but living in the desert, I'm sensitive to anything
> that's affected by the heat, and so I put one in for each mag. I
> used the Van's corrugated plastic tube, and wrapped each with a coil
> of #10 coper wire to bend/aim them at the mags. However, based on
> what I learned in the paragraph below, I believe this is going to be
> too much and I may fashion some restrictors that provide a smaller
> diameter opening. I saw Allen Judy's highly modified RV6 @ OSH this
> year and he's got blast tubes of a very small diameter Scat Tube
> ( 3/8"?)
>
> On a related note, I recently spoke with a -10 builder in OK who
> just completed his plane and is now flying. He reported the HTS (Hot
> Tunnel Syndrome) phenomena. He has John Forsling exhaust and the
> Forsling Ceramic coated heat muffs. One mounted on each side of the
> engine on the exhaust stacks. John warned us that the heat muffs
> might not produce enough heat as the exhaust is ceramic coated both
> inside and outside. That turned out NOT to be the case. The air to
> the muffs is fed by a single 2" opening at the rear baffle behind
> cyl #5. The solution to the heat problem for this builder was to
> put a restrictor plate in front of the 2" air inlet. He experimented
> with how big the hole in the restrictor plate should be and FOUND
> THAT 1/4 " ONE QUARTER OF AN INCH was all that was needed to supply
> all the air He needed for front and aft cabin on a 40 degree OAT
> day!!!!! It solved his HTS problem and still provided all of the
> heat he needs.
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> 'Its all done....Its just not put together'
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
> David McNeill wrote:
>> I may have ask this question before but are any using the blast
>> tubes in the baffling to cool the mags. never had these on a
>> certified or experimental; never needed.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | closing up the bottom wing skin. |
Silly question-
What position have people placed the wing in to try to get interior access
to all the rivets with the bucking bar. Seems with the wings in the craddle
, my arms are not long enough to reach those rivets at the rear spar area,
or did everyone get a helper with the rivets?
Thanks,
John G. 409
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | speckter(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS |
I wonder what size hole you need for a -10 Minnesota day?
Gary
Back in MN for the holidays
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
>
> I spoke to Allen Barrett about the need for blast tubes. what I learned
> was that Mags are not fond of heat. In a Pitts, it is nearly mandatory
> to put in blast tubes as there is a lot of heat behind the baffles, and
> the mags don't last without the tubes. I don't know how much heat the
> -10 holds in the aft engine compartment, but living in the desert, I'm
> sensitive to anything that's affected by the heat, and so I put one in
> for each mag. I used the Van's corrugated plastic tube, and wrapped each
> with a coil of #10 coper wire to bend/aim them at the mags. However,
> based on what I learned in the paragraph below, I believe this is going
> to be too much and I may fashion some restrictors that provide a smaller
> diameter opening. I saw Allen Judy's highly modified RV6 @ OSH this year
> and he's got blast tubes of a very small diameter Scat Tube ( 3/8"?)
>
> On a related note, I recently spoke with a -10 builder in OK who just
> completed his plane and is now flying. He reported the HTS (Hot Tunnel
> Syndrome) phenomena. He has John Forsling exhaust and the Forsling
> Ceramic coated heat muffs. One mounted on each side of the engine on the
> exhaust stacks. John warned us that the heat muffs might not produce
> enough heat as the exhaust is ceramic coated both inside and outside.
> That turned out NOT to be the case. The air to the muffs is fed by a
> single 2" opening at the rear baffle behind cyl #5. The solution to the
> heat problem for this builder was to put a restrictor plate in front of
> the 2" air inlet. He experimented with how big the hole in the
> restrictor plate should be and FOUND THAT 1/4 " ONE QUARTER OF AN INCH
> was all that was needed to supply all the air He needed for front and
> aft cabin on a 40 degree OAT day!!!!! It solved his HTS problem and
> still provided all of the heat he needs.
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> 'Its all done....Its just not put together'
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
> David McNeill wrote:
> > I may have ask this question before but are any using the blast tubes
> > in the baffling to cool the mags. never had these on a certified or
> > experimental; never needed.
>
>
>
>
>
I wonder what size hole you need for a -10 Minnesota day?
Gary
Back in MN for the holidays
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems
Davis
>
> I spoke to Allen Barrett about
the need for blast tubes. what I learned
> was that Mags are not fond
of heat. In a Pitts, it is nearly mandatory
> to put in blast tubes as
there is a lot of heat behind the baffles, and
> the mags don't last without
the tubes. I don't know how much heat the
> -10 holds in the aft
engine compartment, but living in the desert, I'm
> sensitive to anything
that's affected by the heat, and so I put one in
> for each mag. I used
the Van's corrugated plastic tube, and wrapped each
> with a coil of
#10 coper wire to bend/aim them at the mags. However,
> based on what
I learned in the paragraph below, I believe this is
going
> to be too much and I may fashion some restrictors that provide a smaller
> diameter opening. I saw Allen Judy's highly modified RV6 @ OSH this
year
> and he's got blast tubes of a very small diameter Scat Tube (
3/8"?)
>
> On a related note, I recently spoke with a -10 builder
in OK who just
> completed his plane and is now flying. He reported the
HTS (Hot Tunnel
> Syndrome) phenomena. He has John Forsling exhaust
and the Forsling
> Ceramic coated heat muffs. One mounted on each side
of the engine on the
> exhaust stacks. John warned us that the heat muffs
might not produce
> enough heat as the exhaust is ceramic coated both
inside and outside.
> That turned out NOT to be the case. The air to
the muffs is fed by a
> single 2" opening at the rear baffle behind cyl
#5. The solution to the
> heat problem for this builder was to put a restrictor
plate in front of
> the 2" air inlet
. He e
> _
://for
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Ritter <mritter509(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | closing up the bottom wing skin. |
Absolutely - get help and bandages. Make sure women and children are out o
f hearing range.
Mark
N410MR
From: indigoonlatigo(at)msn.comTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RV10-List:
closing up the bottom wing skin.Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 11:47:17 -0800
Silly question- What position have people placed the wing in to try to get
interior access to all the rivets with the bucking bar. Seems with the wing
s in the craddle, my arms are not long enough to reach those rivets at the
rear spar area, or did everyone get a helper with the rivets? Thanks, John
G. 409
_________________________________________________________________
Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista=AE + Windows Live=99.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_C
PC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_102007
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: closing up the bottom wing skin. |
| From: | "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com> |
I guess if you are a small framed person you might have problems reaching. I did
mine while they were on the cradle by my self I found that holding both the
bucking bar and the gun, I was able to get better control. But it does take
some real contortions to get into position for some of them. [Shocked]
If you have a helper available great.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Fuselage SB
(N410GB reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150857#150857
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | closing up the bottom wing skin. |
| From: | "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com> |
John,
I did mine solo with the wings in the cradle - some were a challenge but
I'm very happy with the results. I'm 5'9" and my knuckles don't drag on
the floor. I used safety wire to hold the skins up and out of the way
to access the rear spar rivets. I borrowed the idea from Deems - see his
web site.
cheers,
Ron
187 finishing
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Friday, 7 December 2007 6:17 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: closing up the bottom wing skin.
Silly question-
What position have people placed the wing in to try to get
interior access to all the rivets with the bucking bar. Seems with the
wings in the craddle, my arms are not long enough to reach those rivets
at the rear spar area, or did everyone get a helper with the rivets?
Thanks,
John G. 409
"Warning:
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however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
your computer."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thane States" <thane2(at)comporium.net> |
| Subject: | Re: closing up the bottom wing skin. |
Did all botom skins by myself, but have long arms. But did end up with
rivet rash on arms.
So it can be done, just do what it takes to have a nice result.
Thane
N321BY
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Ritter
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 4:35 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: closing up the bottom wing skin.
Absolutely - get help and bandages. Make sure women and children are
out of hearing range.
Mark
N410MR
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: closing up the bottom wing skin.
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 11:47:17 -0800
Silly question-
What position have people placed the wing in to try to get interior
access to all the rivets with the bucking bar. Seems with the wings in
the craddle, my arms are not long enough to reach those rivets at the
rear spar area, or did everyone get a helper with the rivets?
Thanks,
John G. 409
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
p://forums.matronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. Power up!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com> |
| Subject: | Re: closing up the bottom wing skin. |
I did it all myself John... and though my arms are quite long I don't
think that came in to play much. The bottom skins are much easier to
rivet than they look. I avoided it for a few days, but once I
started I couldn't remember what all the fuss was about. I kept the
wings in the cradle the whole time.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
On Dec 6, 2007, at 11:47 AM, John Gonzalez wrote:
> Silly question-
>
> What position have people placed the wing in to try to get interior
> access to all the rivets with the bucking bar. Seems with the wings
> in the craddle, my arms are not long enough to reach those rivets
> at the rear spar area, or did everyone get a helper with the rivets?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John G. 409
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS |
I have one mag and one lightspeed and no blast tube.
Never had a problem yet. Maybe I'll be adding one at the next oil change.
Scott Schmidt
----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2007 12:24:19 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS
I have one too
-----Original Message-----
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Sent: 12/06/07 12:23 PM
Subject: RV10-List: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS
I may have ask this question before but are any using the blast tubes
in the
baffling to cool the mags. never had these on a certified or
experimental;
never needed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Try doing a single-cylinder job on an auto conversion,
> and having the job be this small.
Hi Tim!
Since you couldn't resist mentioning the auto conversion, I can't
resist offering a good natured reply and offering some of my own
personal observations. :-)
In the 24 years or so that I've been driving, I've never once had to
have any cylinder, piston, or valve work done on any of the cars that
I've owned. In the 7 years that I have been flying, both airplanes that
I have owned have had to have engine work, one with the replacement of a
cylinder, piston and rings, and the other with valve problems.
From my perspective, it is rather dismaying that you have had to have
minor top end work done on your engine with just over 300 hours on it,
and in fact it was a year ago that it started to have issues, so you
actually had far less hours on it at the time.
On the positive side, Aerosport definitely gave you great customer
service! Hopefully you will be able to get everything back together and
running so you can take your Dad up flying. One of my fondest memories
was when I took my Mom up for her first flight with me.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
It is hard to compare airplanes and cars.
If we all drove our cars around at full throttle, it wouldn't make it a week, maybe
not even a day.
Bart and Sue are two of the best in this industry.
He probably didn't want your money because the exchange rate has made the American
dollar worth nothing to him.
-Scott Schmidt
----- Original Message ----
From: Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2007 4:18:08 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Try doing a single-cylinder job on an auto conversion,
> and having the job be this small.
Hi Tim!
Since you couldn't resist mentioning the auto conversion, I can't
resist offering a good natured reply and offering some of my own
personal observations. :-)
In the 24 years or so that I've been driving, I've never once had
to
have any cylinder, piston, or valve work done on any of the cars that
I've owned. In the 7 years that I have been flying, both airplanes
that
I have owned have had to have engine work, one with the replacement of
a
cylinder, piston and rings, and the other with valve problems.
From my perspective, it is rather dismaying that you have had to
have
minor top end work done on your engine with just over 300 hours on it,
and in fact it was a year ago that it started to have issues, so you
actually had far less hours on it at the time.
On the positive side, Aerosport definitely gave you great customer
service! Hopefully you will be able to get everything back together
and
running so you can take your Dad up flying. One of my fondest memories
was when I took my Mom up for her first flight with me.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of
an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
Scott Schmidt wrote:
> If we all drove our cars around at full throttle, it wouldn't make it a
> week, maybe not even a day.
Hi Scott,
Do you have any data on this? I keep hearing people say this but I
can't seem to find any actual data to back it up. I'd greatly
appreciate it if you would be willing to send any information that you
have to help me in my research. I'm trying to learn as much about this
stuff as I can.
Since the autoconversions are not flown at full throttle but rather in
the vicinity of 4000 RPM it doesn't really apply to the aircraft
application, but I'm still interested to see if one did want to run it
full throttle in a car just how long it might last.
I've found some useful information on this web page
http://www.sdsefi.com/air51.htm
but it would be great if someone had more information to share about it.
Thanks,
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
Bart and Sue are two of the best in this industry.
He probably didn't want your money because the exchange rate has made
the American dollar worth nothing to him.
That and a 3 year warranty for parts and labour he stands by.
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schmidt
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long
It is hard to compare airplanes and cars.
If we all drove our cars around at full throttle, it wouldn't make it
a week, maybe not even a day.
Bart and Sue are two of the best in this industry.
He probably didn't want your money because the exchange rate has made
the American dollar worth nothing to him.
-Scott Schmidt
----- Original Message ----
From: Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2007 4:18:08 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Try doing a single-cylinder job on an auto conversion,
> and having the job be this small.
Hi Tim!
Since you couldn't resist mentioning the auto conversion, I can't
resist offering a good natured reply and offering some of my own
personal observations. :-)
In the 24 years or so that I've been driving, I've never once had
to
have any cylinder, piston, or valve work done on any of the cars that
I've owned. In the 7 years that I have been flying, both airplanes
that
I have owned have had to have engine work, one with the replacement of
a
cylinder, piston and rings, and the other with valve problems.
From my perspective, it is rather dismaying that you have had to
have
minor top end work done on your engine with just over 300 hours on it,
and in fact it was a year ago that it started to have issues, so you
actually had far less hours on it at the time.
On the positive side, Aerosport definitely gave you great customer
service! Hopefully you will be able to get everything back together
and
running so you can take your Dad up flying. One of my fondest
memories
was when I took my Mom up for her first flight with me.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
We could have a little competition...
How about we go out and gather firsthand reports from 20 Lycoming
owners that made it 2000 hours with no work, and we go out
and find 20 of ANY single auto conversion engine owners out there
that needed no work after 2000 hours. ;)
I don't know, I know what you're saying...the engines may be
tough, but today I wound out my 4.3L to 3500rpm and tried to keep
it there for a short time. It wasn't very comforting to hear that
thing winding away like that. I know, I know, they should be
able to handle it....but man, that's why they build transmissions
on cars.
I certainly wasn't happy to have any work done. But on the same
token, I can't blame the engine design, or the builder for it.
Perhaps it's from having looser tolerances to allow for the
expansion, but while talking about the subject with the A&P as
we pulled the jug, he told me he sees planes all the time that
have gone to TBO with no work. Starting an engine up is kind
of a crapshoot. I've had tough diesel engines that threw
rods, cracked pistons, and of course my least favorite stranding
I've ever had was when a timing belt blew, throwing my valves
into my pistons on a car I had. You just never know.
I'm just glad that it ended up being so easy to work on. I can
see now why they kept the design...it's really a piece of
maintenance simplicity from a standpoint of the jugs, which are
the part you'd have to work on more than the others anyway.
Tim
Dj Merrill wrote:
>
> Scott Schmidt wrote:
>
>> If we all drove our cars around at full throttle, it wouldn't make it a
>> week, maybe not even a day.
>
> Hi Scott,
> Do you have any data on this? I keep hearing people say this but I
> can't seem to find any actual data to back it up. I'd greatly
> appreciate it if you would be willing to send any information that you
> have to help me in my research. I'm trying to learn as much about this
> stuff as I can.
>
> Since the autoconversions are not flown at full throttle but rather in
> the vicinity of 4000 RPM it doesn't really apply to the aircraft
> application, but I'm still interested to see if one did want to run it
> full throttle in a car just how long it might last.
>
> I've found some useful information on this web page
> http://www.sdsefi.com/air51.htm
> but it would be great if someone had more information to share about it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Dj
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> We could have a little competition...
>
> How about we go out and gather firsthand reports from 20 Lycoming
> owners that made it 2000 hours with no work, and we go out
> and find 20 of ANY single auto conversion engine owners out there
> that needed no work after 2000 hours. ;)
Okay, you do the Subaru conversions, and I'll do the Lycomings... :-)
Honestly I was not (and am still not) trying to stir the pot. It is
just that reports like yours is one of the main reasons why I started
looking at Subaru conversions. I had two bad experiences (at 800 hours
on one engine, and about 1050 or so on the other). My local shop often
had a Lycoming engine in for top end work. It really started bothering me.
You are right, there are some engines that will make it to TBO, but I
just feel like it is a crap shoot. You had to do work at 300 hours, but
Jesse might make it all the way to TBO. There just doesn't seem to be
any good reasoning why one engine might make it and one might need
work. I'm fairly certain you take good care of your airplane and
engine, and it is unlikely that it was something that you did that
caused the problem (or was it? *grin*).
The Subaru might have problems as well. When it comes down to it, most
of us make decisions based on our personal experiences. None of my cars
has ever had to have engine work, and both of my airplanes have. It
might be irrational reasoning, but the picture in my head is tending
towards Subaru engines being more reliable than a typical Lycoming.
That's why I've been asking around for actual data and test results, if
anyone has any to share or can point me in the right direction. My
science background is telling me that I need real data, not subjective
WAGs... :-)
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
| Subject: | SteinAir and Safety-Trim |
Fellow builders,
We are pleased to let you all know that SteinAir has agreed
to be a distributor of TCW Technologies products. They now can
provide Safety-Trim intelligent servo controllers to the experimental
aviation community. Safety-Trim is available at their on-line web
store and may be built into your new instrument panel wiring harness.
Visit. www.steinair.com
Best regards,
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies
www.tcwtech.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aerosport Testimonial - long |
| From: | "Bobby J. Hughes" <bhughes(at)qnsi.net> |
Not all auto conversions have cylinders :)
Sorry I just could not resist.
Bobby
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dj Merrill
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Try doing a single-cylinder job on an auto conversion, and having the
> job be this small.
Hi Tim!
Since you couldn't resist mentioning the auto conversion, I
can't resist offering a good natured reply and offering some of my own
personal observations. :-)
In the 24 years or so that I've been driving, I've never once
had to have any cylinder, piston, or valve work done on any of the cars
that I've owned. In the 7 years that I have been flying, both airplanes
that I have owned have had to have engine work, one with the replacement
of a cylinder, piston and rings, and the other with valve problems.
From my perspective, it is rather dismaying that you have had to
have minor top end work done on your engine with just over 300 hours on
it, and in fact it was a year ago that it started to have issues, so you
actually had far less hours on it at the time.
On the positive side, Aerosport definitely gave you great
customer service! Hopefully you will be able to get everything back
together and running so you can take your Dad up flying. One of my
fondest memories was when I took my Mom up for her first flight with me.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | Aerosport Testimonial - long |
Wait, you want real data and you went with an Egg?!? The man who refuses to
do any dyno runs and estimates his power output while (re)engineering on the fly
after he sold a package and then routinely delivers a year late?!? Sorry man,
I still like the idea of auto conversions but I just had to point that out.
One of Eggs chief reasons for not having any resemblance to a standardize configuration
is that the engine changes every year. Yet he is usually 1-2 years
behind a production run from the factory on delivery.
So something else to think about. Comparing a 500ish engine production run to
10's of thousands doesn't really give any real sense of reliability until you
do some averaging for real maint vs operational hours. I don't believe anyone
has actually done that.
I think Eggs engine has its place but it's not in heavy 4 seat aircraft. The
Sportsman is probably as big as I would consider.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dj Merrill
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> We could have a little competition...
>
> How about we go out and gather firsthand reports from 20 Lycoming
> owners that made it 2000 hours with no work, and we go out
> and find 20 of ANY single auto conversion engine owners out there
> that needed no work after 2000 hours. ;)
Okay, you do the Subaru conversions, and I'll do the Lycomings... :-)
Honestly I was not (and am still not) trying to stir the pot. It is
just that reports like yours is one of the main reasons why I started
looking at Subaru conversions. I had two bad experiences (at 800 hours
on one engine, and about 1050 or so on the other). My local shop often
had a Lycoming engine in for top end work. It really started bothering me.
You are right, there are some engines that will make it to TBO, but I
just feel like it is a crap shoot. You had to do work at 300 hours, but
Jesse might make it all the way to TBO. There just doesn't seem to be
any good reasoning why one engine might make it and one might need
work. I'm fairly certain you take good care of your airplane and
engine, and it is unlikely that it was something that you did that
caused the problem (or was it? *grin*).
The Subaru might have problems as well. When it comes down to it, most
of us make decisions based on our personal experiences. None of my cars
has ever had to have engine work, and both of my airplanes have. It
might be irrational reasoning, but the picture in my head is tending
towards Subaru engines being more reliable than a typical Lycoming.
That's why I've been asking around for actual data and test results, if
anyone has any to share or can point me in the right direction. My
science background is telling me that I need real data, not subjective
WAGs... :-)
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dawson-Townsend,Timothy" <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero> |
Who's got N410JA, that Grady just painted? (pictures on
vansairforce.net)
I like the Piper style vent windows in the windows! Can you share
information on how you did it, where you got the parts, costs, etc?
Looks nice!
TDT
40025
Tim Dawson-Townsend
Aurora Flight Sciences
tdt(at)aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Ritter <mritter509(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Aerosport Testimonial - long |
Spoken like a true rotor head. When are you bringing your 10 to the airport
for final assembly?
Mark
RV-10/N410MR
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long> Date: Fri, 7 Dec 20
all auto conversions have cylinders :)> > Sorry I just could not resist.>
> Bobby> > > -----Original Message-----> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matro
nics.com> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dj Mer
rill> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 5:18 PM> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.co
m> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long> > --> RV10-List me
ssage posted by: Dj Merrill > > Tim Olson wrote:> > > > Try
doing a single-cylinder job on an auto conversion, and having the > > job b
e this small.> > Hi Tim!> Since you couldn't resist mentioning the auto con
version, I> can't resist offering a good natured reply and offering some of
my own> personal observations. :-)> > In the 24 years or so that I've been
driving, I've never once> had to have any cylinder, piston, or valve work
done on any of the cars> that I've owned. In the 7 years that I have been f
lying, both airplanes> that I have owned have had to have engine work, one
with the replacement> of a cylinder, piston and rings, and the other with v
alve problems.> > From my perspective, it is rather dismaying that you have
had to> have minor top end work done on your engine with just over 300 hou
rs on> it, and in fact it was a year ago that it started to have issues, so
you> actually had far less hours on it at the time.> > On the positive sid
e, Aerosport definitely gave you great> customer service! Hopefully you wil
l be able to get everything back> together and running so you can take your
Dad up flying. One of my> fondest memories was when I took my Mom up for h
er first flight with me.> > -Dj> > --> Dj Merrill> Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7
118> http://deej.net/sportsman/> > "Many things that are unexplainable happ
en during the construction of an> airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005> >
====> > >
_________________________________________________________________
You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the i=92m Init
iative now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dawson-Townsend,Timothy" <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero> |
"2) How many of us have temp gauges installed in every exhaust port (of
car engine)? - none"
You might be surprised at how many modern engines are doing internal
monitoring of temperatures, etc., it's just that he engine control unit
is using that information and not sharing it with the driver . . .
TDT
40025
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
Hi
A couple of weeks ago I asked about RivetHead Aero and door pins. I was
finally able to contact them (Dave's website was down for a few days for
some reason). I ordered the parts and they were mailed the next day and
arrived today.
I have bought Dave's parts before and highly recommend his workmanship. Just
order early and you will be happy!
Cheers
Les Kearney
Still singing the section 29 blues (but on the final few bars)
#40643
C-GCWZ (Reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike
Sent: November-30-07 2:38 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Rivethead Aero
Got my set today - Happy camper (7 wks) :D :D :D :D
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149682#149682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
In a message dated 12/6/2007 7:15:22 PM Central Standard Time,
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com writes:
In the 24 years or so that I've been driving, I've never once had to
have any cylinder, piston, or valve work done on any of the cars that
I've owned. In the 7 years that I have been flying, both airplanes that
I have owned have had to have engine work, one with the replacement of a
cylinder, piston and rings, and the other with valve problems.
DJ...
How often do you accelerate your auto, from ground level to 2-4 miles above
the surface from where you started and how often does your car's engine
experience rapid temperature and pressure changes to it's block, and once you
start your car's engine do you immediately put the hammer down to max RPM to get
out of your driveway and then reduce power to 65-80% of it's maximum power
out put while giving the engine varying amounts of oxygen to react with?
There are many engines that will run for years and up to and beyond TBO's
without overhauls, but there are some that need more attention than others. If
you want to get maximum performance from your engine, fly it as often as
possible, daily if possible; change the oil and filter frequently and enjoy the
scenery below!
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
In a message dated 12/6/2007 8:16:54 PM Central Standard Time, deej(at)deej.net
writes:
Do you have any data on this? I keep hearing people say this but I
can't seem to find any actual data to back it up.
I've flown for years behind a 235hp O-540, the engine made TBO at 2,000+ was
rebuilt and is now about 650 hrs, it's a tough little engine...but if one
looks at the record of the same block producing 300+hp the reliability of the
engine is not quite as likely to make TBO without a top along the way. Talk
to owners of Cherokee 235 and Cherokee 6's (300)...both have O-540's in them.
I think we've yet to see many good auto engine conversions...the Mooney
Porsche was probably the largest "experiment" in regular GA aircraft.
P
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aerosport Testimonial - long |
| From: | "Bobby J. Hughes" <bhughes(at)qnsi.net> |
Hopefully after Christmas and before New Years. It would help if I would
stop finding ways to improve the radiator ducts :(
Bobby
(Never, every, every build a custom cowl)
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Ritter
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 10:00 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long
Spoken like a true rotor head. When are you bringing your 10 to the
airport for final assembly?
Mark
RV-10/N410MR
________________________________
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long
> Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 08:32:21 -0600
> From: bhughes(at)qnsi.net
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> Not all auto conversions have cylinders :)
>
> Sorry I just could not resist.
>
> Bobby
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dj Merrill
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 5:18 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long
>
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
> >
> > Try doing a single-cylinder job on an auto conversion, and having
the
> > job be this small.
>
> Hi Tim!
> Since you couldn't resist mentioning the auto conversion, I
> can't resist offering a good natured reply and offering some of my own
> personal observations. :-)
>
> In the 24 years or so that I've been driving, I've never once
> had to have any cylinder, piston, or valve work done on any of the
cars
> that I've owned. In the 7 years that I have been flying, both
airplanes
> that I have owned have had to have engine work, one with the
replacement
> of a cylinder, piston and rings, and the other with valve problems.
>
> From my perspective, it is rather dismaying that you have had to
> have minor top end work done on your engine with just over 300 hours
on
> it, and in fact it was a year ago that it started to have issues, so
you
> actually had far less hours on it at the time.
>
> On the positive side, Aerosport definitely gave you great
> customer service! Hopefully you will be able to get everything back
> together and running so you can take your Dad up flying. One of my
> fondest memories was when I took my Mom up for her first flight with
me.
>
> -Dj
>
> --
> Dj Merrill
> Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
> http://deej.net/sportsman/
>
> "Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of
an
> airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
>
>
>======================
&g=============
>
>
>
________________________________
You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join
source=CRM_WL_joinnow' target='_new'>Join in!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | speckter(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
Because of the lack of volume in auto engine conversions vs Lycoming good hard
data is very hard to come by. Additionally the data is not all measured and reported
in a consistant way as to allow a good thorough analysis.
I would advise anyone going down the auto conversion road to understand that we
know a whole lot less about conversions than we know about Lycomings. So as
they say you are on your own.
The other factor is that the conversion business seems to have quite a few folks
of less than stellar integrety. So many claims have been made and so many people
burned that it is not for the faint of heart to go this route.
Good luck as you sort all this out.
Gary
Frozen in MN
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net>
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
> >
> > We could have a little competition...
> >
> > How about we go out and gather firsthand reports from 20 Lycoming
> > owners that made it 2000 hours with no work, and we go out
> > and find 20 of ANY single auto conversion engine owners out there
> > that needed no work after 2000 hours. ;)
>
> Okay, you do the Subaru conversions, and I'll do the Lycomings... :-)
>
> Honestly I was not (and am still not) trying to stir the pot. It is
> just that reports like yours is one of the main reasons why I started
> looking at Subaru conversions. I had two bad experiences (at 800 hours
> on one engine, and about 1050 or so on the other). My local shop often
> had a Lycoming engine in for top end work. It really started bothering me.
>
> You are right, there are some engines that will make it to TBO, but I
> just feel like it is a crap shoot. You had to do work at 300 hours, but
> Jesse might make it all the way to TBO. There just doesn't seem to be
> any good reasoning why one engine might make it and one might need
> work. I'm fairly certain you take good care of your airplane and
> engine, and it is unlikely that it was something that you did that
> caused the problem (or was it? *grin*).
>
> The Subaru might have problems as well. When it comes down to it, most
> of us make decisions based on our personal experiences. None of my cars
> has ever had to have engine work, and both of my airplanes have. It
> might be irrational reasoning, but the picture in my head is tending
> towards Subaru engines being more reliable than a typical Lycoming.
> That's why I've been asking around for actual data and test results, if
> anyone has any to share or can point me in the right direction. My
> science background is telling me that I need real data, not subjective
> WAGs... :-)
>
> -Dj
>
>
> --
> Dj Merrill
> Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
> http://deej.net/sportsman/
>
> "Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
> airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
>
>
>
>
Because of the lack of volume in auto engine conversions vs Lycoming good
hard data is very hard to come by. Additionally the data is not all measured
and reported in a consistant way as to allow a good thorough analysis.
I would advise anyone going down the auto conversion road to understand that
we know a whole lot less about conversions than we know about Lycomings.
So as they say you are on your own.
The other factor is that the conversion business seems to have quite a few
folks of less than stellar integrety. So many claims have been made and
so many people burned that it is not for the faint of heart to go this route.
Good luck as you sort all this out.
Gary
Frozen in MN
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
> > --> RV10-List
message posted by: Tim Olson
> >
> >
We could have a little competition...
> >
> > How about we
go out and gather firsthand reports from 20 Lycoming
> > owners that
made it 2000 hours with no work, and we go out
> > and find 20 of
ANY single auto conversion engine owners out there
> > that needed
no work after 2000 hours. ;)
>
> Okay, you do the Subaru conversions,
and I'll do the Lycomings... :-)
>
> Honestly I was not (and
am still not) trying to stir the pot. It is
> just that reports like
yours is one of the main reasons why I started
&
gt; lo
oking at Subaru conversions. I had two bad experiences (at 800 hours
> on
one engine, and about 1050 or so on the other). My local shop often
>
had a Lycoming engine in for top end work. It really started bothering me.
>
> You are right, there are some engines that will make it to TBO,
but I
> just feel like it is a crap shoot. You had to do work at 300
hours, but
> Jesse might make it all the way to TBO. There just doesn't
seem to be
> any good reasoning why one engine might make it and one might
need
> work. I'm fairly certain you take good care of your airplane
and
> engine, and it is unlikely that it was something that you did that
> caused the problem (or was it? *grin*).
>
> The Subaru
might have problems as well. When it comes down to it, most
> of us
make decisions based on our personal experiences. None of my cars
> has
ever had to have engine work, and both of my airpla
nes ha
the Co
.matro
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Dj,
>
> I'm glad that you know me and I know you and we have no worries
> that this stuff is intended to offend anyone. I have fun with
> the discussion, and any kind hearted jabs, so it's all good.
That's why I wasn't worried about posting. I'm just trying to learn
as much about this as I can, and I was confident you would not take
offense at my reply.
You should see the responses when I asked about using mogas with 10%
ethanol in it... *grin* Yes, believe it or not, you can design an
aircraft fuel system to use this fuel safely, but it took me several
months of research to find out how to do it (and part of that solution
involves the use of the Subaru engine), along with several e-mail
conversations with the very few people that are doing research and
experimenting with ethanol based fuels. Actual data on this topic is
very hard to find, but opinions are as common as water in the NorthWest
right now... :-)
My ultimate goal is to have my Sportsman on amphibious floats, and
have the option of refueling at a boat marina. I also wanted to be able
to use the same fuel as an automobile, thinking along the lines of long
term availability. At this point I am fairly confident that I can
accomplish this.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Testimonial - long |
| From: | nyterminat(at)aol.com |
I had an IO-540 in my Saratoga and at 1140 hrs it wound up being time for an overhaul
due to the spalling on the camshft.
Bob
In a message dated 12/6/2007 8:16:54 PM Central Standard Time, deej(at)deej.net writes:
Do you have any data on this?? I keep hearing people say this but I
can't seem to find any actual data to back it up.
I've flown for years behind a 235hp O-540, the engine made TBO at 2,000+ was rebuilt
and is now about 650 hrs, it's a tough little engine...but if one looks
at the record of the same block producing 300+hp the reliability of the engine
is not quite as likely to make TBO without a top along the way.? Talk to owners
of Cherokee 235 and Cherokee 6's (300)...both have O-540's in them.? I think
we've yet to see many good auto engine conversions...the Mooney Porsche was
probably the largest "experiment" in regular GA aircraft.
?
P
-----Original Message-----
From: GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Sent: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 12:12 pm
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aerosport Testimonial - long
In a message dated 12/6/2007 8:16:54 PM Central Standard Time, deej(at)deej.net writes:
Do you have any data on this?? I keep hearing people say this but I
can't seem to find any actual data to back it up.
I've flown for years behind a 235hp O-540, the engine made TBO at 2,000+ was rebuilt
and is now about 650 hrs, it's a tough little engine...but if one looks
at the record of the same block producing 300+hp the reliability of the engine
is not quite as likely to make TBO without a top along the way.? Talk to owners
of Cherokee 235 and Cherokee 6's (300)...both have O-540's in them.? I think
we've yet to see many good auto engine conversions...the Mooney Porsche was
probably the largest "experiment" in regular GA aircraft.
?
P
hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | fuel lines, tunnel to wing |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
If you builders can find other RV-10 builders who ignore this maxim.
Either conclude they understand little on fluid dynamics or they are
just uninformed and need to open the book for a refresher. The danger
is just not worth it. Pictures of tunnels can show a lot about
understanding tubing bends and use of flex tubing. Ben's edit is DEAD
ON. "Never".
John Hilger's tunnel is one of the most beautiful jobs I have laid eyes
on yet. John... its time to post a picture or two as a tease for
clarification.
John Cox
#40600
KUAO
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: fuel lines, tunnel to wing
MauleDriver wrote:
I came to understand the purpose of this istem 43.13 before I knew it
was a standard. I found it aggravating to no end that none of the
components of the fuel system that reside in the tunnel are lined up.
Each one (boost pump, filter, flow meter) are all misaligned slightly so
one can never "install a straight length of tubing between two rigidly
mounted fittings". the fittings all require a job in the tubing
between them.
I did the same bulkhead fitting thing that Bob and others have done.
Note that there are 90 degree bends in both pieces of tubing so it would
appear to conform to 8-31. Bob did a real nice job on the bushings so
that there are 2 inner bushing to keep the fitting centered in the
oversize hole, and 2 outer bushing to capture it in the hole. I took a
simpler route and just used 2 outer bushing that depend on being clamped
in place by the nut on the bulkhead fitting. Given 8-31, the lazy
approach would possibly provide even greater allowance for vibration and
temperature changes. Though I would emphasize there is no need for this
in this situation. And Bob's bushings really looks like the proper way
to do it.
Overall, I'm thinking that the bulkhead fitting is the best way to
handle this situation next to Van's original design. It simplies the
bending required and facilitates installation of the Andair valve. It
does add more points of possible failure.
Bill Watson
Ben Westfall wrote:
I have been fretting over the fuel line installation lately and I too
have considered installing standard bulkhead fittings in some similar
fashion. The one thing that has kept me from making up my mind and
doing this is the following from the 43.13. I don't think this was
mentioned in the last go around on fuel lines so I thought I would bring
it up.
Chapter 8, Section 3, Paragraph 8-31, part c Alignment states:
"Never install a straight length of tubing between two rigidly mounted
fittings. Always incorporate at least one bend between such fittings to
absorb strain caused by vibration and temperature changes."
Does the fitting in the tunnel wall qualify as a rigidly mounted? If so
does anyone "in the know" know what qualifies as a proper bend? I am
wondering if this is the primary reason for the way Vans has done it
without fittings? I'm curious of others thoughts.
Ben Westfall
#40579
PDX
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine) |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
The mandate is for All gasoline products sold by retailers, wholesalers
within the boundaries of the State of Orygun and provides no exemption.
Here attached is the latest from the Department of Agriculture meeting
this week. They will administer the Greenies legislation which was
submitted by the governor through the Department of Energy. All
lawnmowers, recreational toys, landscape implements, chain saws, boats,
airplanes and all other such "Spark Ignited" internal combustion engines
are lumped into the convoluted definition of motor vehicles requiring
the Greenie Fuel. My partner in the Oregon Pilots Association - Dave
Martin corrects me that neither of us have been contacted by EAA nor are
we representing their interests on this important legislation. We are
representing the Oregon Pilots and boy I hope you all enjoy flying
through Orygun starting in a month.
Now if only Dave Hertner can get his Brayton Cycle Alternate RV-10
powerplant operational we can get Michael Sausen involved again. (Just
kidding Michael).
Follow Montana's lead and get a pre-emptive bill on the books before the
Greenies push us into the Ice Age.
John
RV-10 #40600
VP Legislative Affairs and other types too for Oregon Pilots Association
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Choices (Taxi Testing New Engine)
John, I saw on another list that the OR ethanol mandate was ONLY for
Mogas, not Avgas. Of course that still leaves all the STC'd folks and
LSA folks in trouble, as well as the marine folks. I'll have to ask what
folks around my home drome do, since we have 10% for all the winter
months, mandatory, but optional in the summer.
On 12/3/07, Kelly McMullen wrote:
Well, I doubt that ethanol will be mandated nationwide, simply because
there isn't a viable production capacity at least until they solve
cellulosic ethanol, as there isn't enough corn and much of the
environmental community recognizes that corn derived ethanol at any
higher than production levels is an environmental disaster. Not to
mention that it does very little to increase overall fuel supplies.
Hmm, can we spell serious problems for LSA if Rotax really has a problem
with Avgas?
Where is the boating community on this? Can't imagine it causing
anything but trouble for fuel tanks and engines next to water.
On 12/3/07, John W. Cox < johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com
> wrote:
Let's take it the next step Kelly to mandate MOGAS has 10% + Ethanol in
all 50 states. Now all of those Peterson and EAA STCed aircraft
refueling in Orygun will pass Ethanol through the lines, seals and over
the gaskets. Rotax requires not more than 50% Avgas to be added to
Mogas or extensive additional repair work is required.
Dave Martin (EAA 78011) representing the EAA will make the plea tomorrow
before this panel of idiots. These are politicians I have not voted
for, do not endorse and know little of the consequence of their action
to revenue collection reductions, negative mpact to tourism and economic
develop and aviation safety. We will soon be the Western Appalachia of
the US of A. There is a distinct possibility that one of the
politicians is the son of the acting Director of Aviation.
The Greenies are everywhere. Be vigilant out there. It is soon to be
an election year.
John (EAA 565497)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket. |
I am having a difficult time rivetting in this area. On the rear spar where
the flap bracket is, rivetting the skin in this area is difficult because
there is not much room between the rivet and the flap extension arm. I seem
to not have an appropriate fitting for the rivet gun for this area. The st
andard gun fittings are too wide and require the gun handle to be angled ba
ck toward the flap bracket and the bracket will not allow this to happen. W
hen I tried to drive the rivit it didn't sit flush. Drilling it out was a t
ask in itself.
Any suggestions, what am I missing.
Thanks,
JOhn G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket. |
I can recall clearly the frustration at that same point. I wish I could
recall as clearly what I did about it. As near as I can recall, I didn't
find any magic bullet, but ended up using a flush rivet set and trying
to keep it as close to flat as possible even though it necessarily
needed to be a little offset. I just went out and checked, and sure
enough I've got a couple of 'dings' in this area. Thanks heavens for filler!
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
John Gonzalez wrote:
> I am having a difficult time rivetting in this area. On the rear spar
> where the flap bracket is, rivetting the skin in this area is
> difficult because there is not much room between the rivet and the
> flap extension arm. I seem to not have an appropriate fitting for the
> rivet gun for this area. The standard gun fittings are too wide and
> require the gun handle to be angled back toward the flap bracket and
> the bracket will not allow this to happen. When I tried to drive the
> rivit it didn't sit flush. Drilling it out was a task in itself.
>
> Any suggestions, what am I missing.
>
> Thanks,
>
> JOhn G.
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket. |
I even tried a back rivet set on the manufactured head, but I had to use my
huge, long offset and that dam thing never worked with my #2 rivet gun. St
ill don't have any dings but I need to find a way. Tried to hit with the gu
n on a bucking bar on the outside while bucking on the inside...didn't work
.
They had perfectly set rivets on the inboard skin, inboard flap extention a
rea on these QB wings. How did those Philipino workers do it?????
Thanks, Deems
JOhn> Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 19:02:27 -0700> From: deemsdavis(at)cox.net> To: r
v10-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Trouble with riveting on re
eemsdavis(at)cox.net>> > I can recall clearly the frustration at that same poi
nt. I wish I could > recall as clearly what I did about it. As near as I ca
n recall, I didn't > find any magic bullet, but ended up using a flush rive
t set and trying > to keep it as close to flat as possible even though it n
ecessarily > needed to be a little offset. I just went out and checked, and
sure > enough I've got a couple of 'dings' in this area. Thanks heavens fo
r filler!> > > Deems Davis # 406> 'Its all done....Its just not put togethe
r'> http://deemsrv10.com/> > > John Gonzalez wrote:> > I am having a diffic
ult time rivetting in this area. On the rear spar > > where the flap bracke
t is, rivetting the skin in this area is > > difficult because there is not
much room between the rivet and the > > flap extension arm. I seem to not
have an appropriate fitting for the > > rivet gun for this area. The standa
rd gun fittings are too wide and > > require the gun handle to be angled ba
ck toward the flap bracket and > > the bracket will not allow this to happe
n. When I tried to drive the > > rivit it didn't sit flush. Drilling it out
was a task in itself.> > > > Any suggestions, what am I missing.> > > > Th
==============> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket. |
Seems I need a long flush set for the gun.
JOhn> Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 19:02:27 -0700> From: deemsdavis(at)cox.net> To: r
v10-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Trouble with riveting on re
eemsdavis(at)cox.net>> > I can recall clearly the frustration at that same poi
nt. I wish I could > recall as clearly what I did about it. As near as I ca
n recall, I didn't > find any magic bullet, but ended up using a flush rive
t set and trying > to keep it as close to flat as possible even though it n
ecessarily > needed to be a little offset. I just went out and checked, and
sure > enough I've got a couple of 'dings' in this area. Thanks heavens fo
r filler!> > > Deems Davis # 406> 'Its all done....Its just not put togethe
r'> http://deemsrv10.com/> > > John Gonzalez wrote:> > I am having a diffic
ult time rivetting in this area. On the rear spar > > where the flap bracke
t is, rivetting the skin in this area is > > difficult because there is not
much room between the rivet and the > > flap extension arm. I seem to not
have an appropriate fitting for the > > rivet gun for this area. The standa
rd gun fittings are too wide and > > require the gun handle to be angled ba
ck toward the flap bracket and > > the bracket will not allow this to happe
n. When I tried to drive the > > rivit it didn't sit flush. Drilling it out
was a task in itself.> > > > Any suggestions, what am I missing.> > > > Th
==============> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS |
Deems,
Do you know if he had John add the turndown on the pipe end or was he running
the straight pipe?
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS
I spoke to Allen Barrett about the need for blast tubes. what I learned
was that Mags are not fond of heat. In a Pitts, it is nearly mandatory
to put in blast tubes as there is a lot of heat behind the baffles, and
the mags don't last without the tubes. I don't know how much heat the
-10 holds in the aft engine compartment, but living in the desert, I'm
sensitive to anything that's affected by the heat, and so I put one in
for each mag. I used the Van's corrugated plastic tube, and wrapped each
with a coil of #10 coper wire to bend/aim them at the mags. However,
based on what I learned in the paragraph below, I believe this is going
to be too much and I may fashion some restrictors that provide a smaller
diameter opening. I saw Allen Judy's highly modified RV6 @ OSH this year
and he's got blast tubes of a very small diameter Scat Tube ( 3/8"?)
On a related note, I recently spoke with a -10 builder in OK who just
completed his plane and is now flying. He reported the HTS (Hot Tunnel
Syndrome) phenomena. He has John Forsling exhaust and the Forsling
Ceramic coated heat muffs. One mounted on each side of the engine on the
exhaust stacks. John warned us that the heat muffs might not produce
enough heat as the exhaust is ceramic coated both inside and outside.
That turned out NOT to be the case. The air to the muffs is fed by a
single 2" opening at the rear baffle behind cyl #5. The solution to the
heat problem for this builder was to put a restrictor plate in front of
the 2" air inlet. He experimented with how big the hole in the
restrictor plate should be and FOUND THAT 1/4 " ONE QUARTER OF AN INCH
was all that was needed to supply all the air He needed for front and
aft cabin on a 40 degree OAT day!!!!! It solved his HTS problem and
still provided all of the heat he needs.
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
David McNeill wrote:
> I may have ask this question before but are any using the blast tubes
> in the baffling to cool the mags. never had these on a certified or
> experimental; never needed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: BLAST TUBES FOR THE MAGS |
Mike, this builder did NOT have the turn downs on the exhaust tips. i
asked him if he was certain as to the source of the heat, and he felt
certain it was the heat muffs.
Deems
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>
> Deems,
>
> Do you know if he had John add the turndown on the pipe end or was he running
the straight pipe?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com> |
| Subject: | Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket. |
If you are referring to the rivets holding on the bottom skin right next to
the flap attach arms (I think there are 4 on each side) I used a long
backrivet set with the collar removed. Do make sure the face is polished
very smooth or it will mar up the skin pretty good. Be sure to be perfectly
perpendicular too as the edges have no bevel or curve in them. Turn up the
air pressure cause the long set absorbs a lot of impact.
I actually made my own backrivet set out of a 12" long cupped set that I got
on ebay (see pictures attached). It came with a gaggle of sets and bars
that were for a rivet sizes I'd never heard of. I cut the end off flush and
polished the thing up real good. At home depot I found a pvc fitting that
fit it like a glove and cut it up to work like a standard backrivet set.
The spring that came with the avery c-frame seems to work pretty good
holding pressure on the pvc fitting.
-Ben Westfall
#40579 (N109LB just reserved - 10th of September is our wedding anniversary
- Lene & Ben)
PDX
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 5:10 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket.
I am having a difficult time rivetting in this area. On the rear spar where
the flap bracket is, rivetting the skin in this area is difficult because
there is not much room between the rivet and the flap extension arm. I seem
to not have an appropriate fitting for the rivet gun for this area. The
standard gun fittings are too wide and require the gun handle to be angled
back toward the flap bracket and the bracket will not allow this to happen.
When I tried to drive the rivit it didn't sit flush. Drilling it out was a
task in itself.
Any suggestions, what am I missing.
Thanks,
JOhn G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com> |
| Subject: | Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket. |
If I didn't make it clear the backrivet set was used as a regular set on the
manufactured head of the AN470 rivet and my wife bucked the shop head per
usual.
-Ben
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 5:10 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket.
I am having a difficult time rivetting in this area. On the rear spar where
the flap bracket is, rivetting the skin in this area is difficult because
there is not much room between the rivet and the flap extension arm. I seem
to not have an appropriate fitting for the rivet gun for this area. The
standard gun fittings are too wide and require the gun handle to be angled
back toward the flap bracket and the bracket will not allow this to happen.
When I tried to drive the rivit it didn't sit flush. Drilling it out was a
task in itself.
Any suggestions, what am I missing.
Thanks,
JOhn G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com> |
| Subject: | Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket. |
Ooops yes AN426. Thanks Jesse
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket.
Uh, that should be AN426 right?
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Dec 8, 2007, at 1:18 AM, Ben Westfall wrote:
If I didn't make it clear the backrivet set was used as a regular set on the
manufactured head of the AN470 rivet and my wife bucked the shop head per
usual.
-Ben
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Garmin 430w/530w version 3.0 software now available |
| From: | "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> |
For those that have Garmin 430w/530w navigators, version 3.0 software release (SB
07040 rev A) is now available.
RE: New Garmin V 3.0 Software release. Service Bulletin N0. 0740 Rev A Garmin has
released two new software updates for 400W and 500W series units (i.e. 400W,
420W, 430W, 500W, 530W, ect).
These software updates are for the GPS sub assemble and for the main processor
sub assembly. These updates can be performed by Garmin dealers in the field and
should take about 1 hour to complete. Along with the new software update you
will receive a new POH supplement.
This is a no charge update and Garmin has marked this update as Mandatory. Here
is a list of the changes the new update will address:
. Added the ability to load an arrival or departure without first removing existing
arrival or departure, addressing the issue described in Service Alert 070227-00
. Corrected compatibility issue with WX500 Storm scope identified in Installation
Bulletin 0711
. Reduced TAWS nuisance alerts for circling approaches
. Added ability to store and remotely tune up to 15 radio channels
. Added XM weather products: Lightning, Cell Movement, and Winds Aloft
. Added compatibility with Avidyne product's: EXP5000 PFD, EX5000 MFD and EX500
MFD
. Added capability to display vertical GPS approach guidance on Honeywell EFS 40/50
. Added capability to display traffic from Honeywell KMH 980 (KMH 920) and KTA
970 (KTA 910)
. Improved prompting for course reversals at IAF transitions on approach
. Improved Auto-Zoom functionality
. Improved VNAV functionality during holds
. Corrected the operation of the E6B winds aloft calculation on Winds page
. Unit now retains user settings on NAV1 page over a power cycle (400W series units)
. Unit now starts up in last mode used (GPS or VLOC) instead of reverting to GPS
mode at startup
. Corrected issue of intermittent screen flashing
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel bushing re-think |
Today I went to make the fuel lines that run under the front seats and
I've decided my previous approach using bulkhead fittings at the tunnel
and at the wing root would be a mistake. Earlier in the week I posted
some pictures on our web site of machined aluminum bushings I made to
allow the use of bulkhead style fittings at the tunnel and at the wing
root. Well, as I got into the tube installation I found that tunnel
area was a lot stiffer than I really appreciated and I became
increasingly concerned about the straight run of tubing issue between
two stiff bulkheads. However, I still wanted to use the bulkhead
fittings at the tunnel so I looked into what options I had at the wing
root. I found that I could push a bulkhead fitting thru the rubber
grommet that comes with the kit. So this is what I've decided to use.
I put the grommet in the fuselage wall first and then ran a 1/2" drill
bit thru the opening, then installed the bulkhead fitting. Now there
is compliance in this of the fuel line. Comments appreciated.
Picture attached.
Bob Newman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel bushing re-think |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Trouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket. |
Ben,
Thank thanks for the tip.
I noticed in the Avery catalog that they sell a rivet gun extension, 8" whi
ch a flush set can fit into. I plan on purchasing it and then I will also g
et another 3/4 diameter flush set and grind a flat spot onto one side so I
can get the center of the set closer to the rivet head. Shouldn't need to t
ake too much off the side of the set because the anatomy on the shaft might
mar up the flap attachment bracket.
Obviously, I'll put some good pipe tap over the ground off edge and shaft.
This should allow a good set of those rivets.
JOhn G.
From: rv10(at)sinkrate.comTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RE: RV10-List: T
rouble with riveting on rear spar at flap bracket.Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 06:
Ooops yes AN426. Thanks Jesse
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse SaintSent: Friday, December 07, 2007 11:35
PMTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: RV10-List: Trouble with riveting
on rear spar at flap bracket.
Uh, that should be AN426 right?
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Dec 8, 2007, at 1:18 AM, Ben Westfall wrote:
If I didn=92t make it clear the backrivet set was used as a regular set on
the manufactured head of the AN470 rivet and my wife bucked the shop head p
er usual.
-Ben
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Cost/labor saving ideas |
| From: | "tganster" <tganster(at)mwwb.net> |
I am interested in starting a thread showing cost saving ideas you have found while
building your plane. I found two ideas from other RV builders while searching
the web. I am a fairly new builder and I apologize if these are old hat.
Rather than spending the money on alodine by the gallon and the hazard shipping
to go with it, I purchase 2 lbs. 14-2 iridite from a local racing supply house
for $59.00. The dry powder mixes with water to make up to 40 gals. of alodine.
I also built a c-frame dimpler from some scrap I had laying around the shop.
I mounted my rivet gun to the top of the piston for a very efficient way of dimpling
skins. It really works quite well. See attachment.
Please add your cost/labor savers to the list.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151235#151235
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc03349_451.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel bushing re-think |
Bill, I think that what you suggested is the most straight forward way
to run the lines (from the tunnel to the wing) except that then there is
a stub of aluminum tubing sticking out of the side of the fuselage just
asking to get bent over and ruined up till the wings are attached. I
know I would end up wrecking it. So that drove my decision to have a
bulkhead ftg at the wing root.
-Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel bushing re-think |
Jesse, I didn't install a bulkhead fitting at the tunnel. I went with
the grommet, but I did terminate the fuel line midway under the seat so
that it should be a little easier to attach the final section to the
wing. (I'll let you know how that works in a couple of days)
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2037%20Fuel%20System/slides/DSC02804.html
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
Jesse Saint wrote:
> Bob,
>
> The beauty of just having a fitting at the tunnel and going straight
> from there to the tank is that you can fit the line more or less, and
> then remove it until you are ready to install the wing. Then it isn't
> in the way and in danger of being messed up.
> *
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cost/labor saving ideas |
Easy
Get everything you need in one shipment except for engine and prop (prop has
life)
Do not change things that do not need to be changed. Do not fill your panel
with stuff you will never use.
Happy to talk figures if you email direct
vhmum(at)bigpond.com
regards Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Cost/labor saving ideas |
Very interesting set up you have for your C frame.
How do you get your rivet gun to convert from an automatic to a single fire
?
It looks like you have your dies in upside down, with them that way, you wi
ll be missing a lot of holes and making some unwanted ones. I think it woul
d be helpful to also make your table extended out beyond where the dies are
to help support the material. Don't forget to put down the carpet on the t
able.
Be certain you know where and when to cut corners on cost.
Am I the fish that took the bait?
> Subject: RV10-List: Cost/labor saving ideas> From: tganster(at)mwwb.net> Dat
List message posted by: "tganster" > > I am interested i
n starting a thread showing cost saving ideas you have found while building
your plane. I found two ideas from other RV builders while searching the w
eb. I am a fairly new builder and I apologize if these are old hat.> Rather
than spending the money on alodine by the gallon and the hazard shipping t
o go with it, I purchase 2 lbs. 14-2 iridite from a local racing supply hou
se for $59.00. The dry powder mixes with water to make up to 40 gals. of al
odine.> I also built a c-frame dimpler from some scrap I had laying around
the shop. I mounted my rivet gun to the top of the piston for a very effici
ent way of dimpling skins. It really works quite well. See attachment.> Ple
ase add your cost/labor savers to the list.> > > > > Read this topic online
here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151235#151235> > >
> > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc03349_451.jpg> >
==> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cost/labor saving ideas |
| From: | "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> |
Some great tools to get you through with your brain intact
1. 3M scotch brite wheel don't even think of starting without it $55
2. Harbor Freight Die grinder - about $10 - use with the Norton cutoff disks -
Gets you through the cabin top and widows (burned out my first one). Remember
to lubricate
3. Dremmel tool - 10.8Volt lithium battery operated - $49 Wal Mart. Powerful enough
and high speed. Buy the $5 carbide drum bit (awesome)
4. Black and Decker Dragster Belt Sander. Light enough to control with one hand
while you control the work with the other hand. The 3"x21" belts really wear
well and the pointy tip on the Dragster UPC 28877-47945 lets you get into the
tight spots on the door frame ($49-$69) Depot/WalMart
5. Harbor Freight Electronic digital caliper (the better one) made out of metal.
Runs $12-25
6. Dental-Surgical tools - Curved dental pick - dental mirror - scissors - Haemostatic
forceps (the kind that lock) (at OSH $1-$2 each)
If I had owned all of these when I started it would have been easier [Laughing]
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151409#151409
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com> |
| Subject: | My Electric Rudder Trim. |
I have finally finished my Electric Rudder Trim on my RV-10 thi
s past weekend. The airplane is now back together, but the weather in the
mid-west was freezing rain all weekend and I didn't get a chance to flight
test. But initial testing with a fixed trim tab would indicate that this s
hould meet my design requirements.
Pictures are suppose to be worth a thousand words, so I will sa
ve myself the typing and post lots of pictures instead.
http://picasaweb.google.com/rdoerr10/RV10ElectricRudderTrim
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250 (N519RV - 341 Hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | My Electric Rudder Trim. |
Ray,
Your trim looks great!
Any chance you would document your dimensions and procedures so that others
may copy?
Thanks,
bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
[NTK]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 9:21 AM
Subject: RV10-List: My Electric Rudder Trim.
I have finally finished my Electric Rudder Trim on my RV-10 this
past weekend. The airplane is now back together, but the weather in the
mid-west was freezing rain all weekend and I didn't get a chance to flight
test. But initial testing with a fixed trim tab would indicate that this
should meet my design requirements.
Pictures are suppose to be worth a thousand words, so I will
save myself the typing and post lots of pictures instead.
http://picasaweb.google.com/rdoerr10/RV10ElectricRudderTrim
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250 (N519RV - 341 Hrs)
__________ NOD32 2713 (20071210) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Schipper <mike(at)learningplanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My Electric Rudder Trim. |
Hi Ray,
Thanks for the post. One thing that isn't clear from the pictures is
how you reinforced the tab itself after it was cut from the rudder.
Did you add a spar of some sort?
Regards,
Mike Schipper
#40576 - Fuse - www.rvten.com
On Dec 10, 2007, at 8:20 AM, Doerr, Ray R [NTK] wrote:
> I have finally finished my Electric Rudder Trim on my
> RV-10 this past weekend. The airplane is now back together, but the
> weather in the mid-west was freezing rain all weekend and I didn=92t
> get a chance to flight test. But initial testing with a fixed trim
> tab would indicate that this should meet my design requirements.
>
> Pictures are suppose to be worth a thousand words, so I
> will save myself the typing and post lots of pictures instead.
>
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/rdoerr10/RV10ElectricRudderTrim
>
>
> Thank You
> Ray Doerr
> 40250 (N519RV ' 341 Hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com> |
| Subject: | My Electric Rudder Trim. |
Sure, I can do that. But I would like to wait until I get throu
gh the flight testing to see if the size of the tab, travel, etc is correct
.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 8:59 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: My Electric Rudder Trim.
Ray,
Your trim looks great!
Any chance you would document your dimensions and procedures so that others
may copy?
Thanks,
bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R [NTK]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 9:21 AM
Subject: RV10-List: My Electric Rudder Trim.
I have finally finished my Electric Rudder Trim on my RV-10 thi
s past weekend. The airplane is now back together, but the weather in the
mid-west was freezing rain all weekend and I didn't get a chance to flight
test. But initial testing with a fixed trim tab would indicate that this s
hould meet my design requirements.
Pictures are suppose to be worth a thousand words, so I will sa
ve myself the typing and post lots of pictures instead.
http://picasaweb.google.com/rdoerr10/RV10ElectricRudderTrim
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250 (N519RV - 341 Hrs)
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
__________ NOD32 2713 (20071210) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com> |
| Subject: | My Electric Rudder Trim. |
The tab was made with new material, not using the piece I remov
ed. This way I was able to rivet the control horns to one side before rive
ting the trailing edge of the tab. The tab has a =BC" think balsa Spar wit
h two layers of glass behind it. The balsa is there just to create the cor
rect gap. I also did the same to close in the top and bottom of the tab.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250 (N519RV - 341 Hrs)
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Schipper
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: My Electric Rudder Trim.
Hi Ray,
Thanks for the post. One thing that isn't clear from the pictures is how yo
u reinforced the tab itself after it was cut from the rudder. Did you add a
spar of some sort?
Regards,
Mike Schipper
#40576 - Fuse - www.rvten.com<http://www.rvten.com>
On Dec 10, 2007, at 8:20 AM, Doerr, Ray R [NTK] wrote:
I have finally finished my Electric Rudder Trim on my RV-10 thi
s past weekend. The airplane is now back together, but the weather in the
mid-west was freezing rain all weekend and I didn't get a chance to flight
test. But initial testing with a fixed trim tab would indicate that this s
hould meet my design requirements.
Pictures are suppose to be worth a thousand words, so I will sa
ve myself the typing and post lots of pictures instead.
http://picasaweb.google.com/rdoerr10/RV10ElectricRudderTrim
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250 (N519RV - 341 Hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | My Electric Rudder Trim. |
Ray,
Did you reinforce the Rudder where the tab mounts? Just thinking about
any oil canning and structure support needed. Hope it works as desig
ned.......time to PAINT yet? :)
Dean
_____________________________________________________________
Click here for low prices on easy-to-use drug tests!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iifcGG0BKWh3fMtBvAPVUYv
ree4a7CtXz83o8ITzIOneHZTaM/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Vans aluminum tubing |
| From: | "Eric_Kallio" <scout019(at)msn.com> |
While trying to get the fuel lines ran I ran into several problems with the 3/8ths
tubing supplied with the kit. Much of it was out of round, presumably flattened
when coiled. I also had 3 places where the tubing was cracked. All told
I got about 7 feet of usable tubing. I ordered an additional 6 feet and when I
went to use it it was ALL flattened. While not significant, the widest spot was
measured to be .390 inches. That makes it tough to get the .375 inch fittings
on. A phone call to Vans provided the response that I expected. It is apparently
my fault that the tubing was coiled so tight that it got out of round, and
they haven't heard of this before. Am I the only one that has had this problem
or is this more common than Vans wants to admit? No I find myself heading
to the airport to scrounge a 14" piece of tubing to finish the fuel lines, since
I refuse to get more from Vans. If need be I will go to Aircraft Spruce. They
haven't failed me yet. and doubt they will.
Eric Kallio
40518 Fuel system frustration
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151484#151484
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com> |
| Subject: | My Electric Rudder Trim. |
Yes, I re-enforced all around the perimeter of the cutout for t
he Trim Servo. You can see the angles on all for sides of the Servo plate.
Also I created a spar where the trim tab hinge mounts to. You can see in
the pictures there are two rivets above the 5 screws because I wanted to r
un it up to the next stiffeners in the rudder. I tell you it is very stron
g is this area, likely over-built, but that is better than under-built.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of ddddsp1(at)juno.com
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 11:46 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: My Electric Rudder Trim.
Ray,
Did you reinforce the Rudder where the tab mounts? Just thinking about an
y oil canning and structure support needed. Hope it works as designed...
....time to PAINT yet? :)
Dean
_____________________________________________________________
Click here for low prices on easy-to-use drug tests!<http://thirdpartyoffer
s.juno.com/TGL2112/fc/Ioyw6iifcGG0BKWh3fMtBvAPVUYvree4a7CtXz83o8ITzIOneHZTa
M/>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: My Electric Rudder Trim. |
Sweet!
Let us know how the testing goes!
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: Doerr, Ray R [NTK]
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 7:21 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: My Electric Rudder Trim.
Sure, I can do that. But I would like to wait until I get
through the flight testing to see if the size of the tab, travel, etc is
correct.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 8:59 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: My Electric Rudder Trim.
Ray,
Your trim looks great!
Any chance you would document your dimensions and procedures so that
others may copy?
Thanks,
bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
[NTK]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 9:21 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: My Electric Rudder Trim.
I have finally finished my Electric Rudder Trim on my
RV-10 this past weekend. The airplane is now back together, but the
weather in the mid-west was freezing rain all weekend and I didn't get a
chance to flight test. But initial testing with a fixed trim tab would
indicate that this should meet my design requirements.
Pictures are suppose to be worth a thousand words, so I
will save myself the typing and post lots of pictures instead.
http://picasaweb.google.com/rdoerr10/RV10ElectricRudderTrim
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250 (N519RV - 341 Hrs)
http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?R
V10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
__________ NOD32 2713 (20071210) Information __________
http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?R
V10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | My Electric Rudder Trim. |
Did you actually tie into the rudder stiffners with the new spar piece whic
h is infront of the trim surface cut out or is it only tied into the skins?
John G.
From: Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.comTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.comDate: Mon, 10 Dec 20
Yes, I re-enforced all around the perimeter of the cutout for t
he Trim Servo. You can see the angles on all for sides of the Servo plate.
Also I created a spar where the trim tab hinge mounts to. You can see in
the pictures there are two rivets above the 5 screws because I wanted to r
un it up to the next stiffeners in the rudder. I tell you it is very stron
g is this area, likely over-built, but that is better than under-built.
Thank YouRay Doerr
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of ddddsp1(at)juno.comSent: Monday, December 10, 2007
11:46 AMTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RE: RV10-List: My Electric Rudd
er Trim.
Ray,
Did you reinforce the Rudder where the tab mounts? Just thinking about an
y oil canning and structure support needed. Hope it works as designed...
....time to PAINT yet? :)
Dean
_____________________________________________________________Click here for
low prices on easy-to-use drug tests! http://www.matronics.com/contributi
onhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gerry Filby" <gerf(at)gerf.com> |
Hi Folks,
Well now I've gone and done it - I sent in my order for an RV-10 empennage
kit.
Just wanted to say "Hi" to the group since I'll likely be bugging you with
inane questions :-)
Live in San Francisco and fly out of Half Moon Bay. I'm a "repeat offender"
having completed my RV-9 in January of this year - she's got 300 hours on
her and I started the first Annual Condition Inspection last night.
http://www.n696wg.com
(Aerosport IO-320, Hartzell Constant Speed, AFP fuel injection, 1 Lightspeed
and 1 Mag.)
I've been having a ball this last year flying around the great state of
California. But I have to admit it - I really miss the building ... yeah, I
know, how messed up is that.
All the best ...
Gerry.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> |
Man, you've been doing some flying to put 300 hours on a plane in less
than a year. Welcome to the list, Gerry. There are some good folks on
this list. There are a number of topics that people will be very happy
to discuss with you, such as:
1. What kind of primer you need to put on your project
2. Which of the many alternative engines is better than the Lycoming,
and why
3. What type of glass panel you need to buy
4. Who are the recommended builder assistance shops
5. Why does the "tunnel" between the seats get hot
Just kidding - any of those topics will touch off a flame war.
Sometimes such wars are fun to read, but they generally are a waste of
bandwidth. Any other topics will generally get you a good, well
thought-out answer. There are a couple of websites worth adding to your
"Favorites" list:
http://www.myrv10.com/ This is Tim Olson'spage. He is a very nice
fellow, and a prolific contributor to the RV-10 forum. His website
contains a wealth of information. Tim's plane has been flying for a
couple of years now and usually makes it to the major fly-ins around the
country.
http://www.soundingsresearch.com/RV-10/Home.htm This is John Jessen's
builders log and he does a good job of documenting the various steps
involved. Sometimes if you are confused about a step in the project you
can go to John's site and see some pictures that put things into
perspective
There are several other good sites but these have been of the most help
to me.
Welcome aboard!
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
#40610
Empennage Finished - trying to decide whether to buy the wing kit now,
or wait for the stock market to go up enough for my stock options to buy
the Quickbuild kit
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry Filby
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 3:20 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Howdy !
Hi Folks,
Well now I've gone and done it - I sent in my order for an RV-10
empennage
kit.
Just wanted to say "Hi" to the group since I'll likely be bugging you
with
inane questions :-)
Live in San Francisco and fly out of Half Moon Bay. I'm a "repeat
offender"
having completed my RV-9 in January of this year - she's got 300 hours
on
her and I started the first Annual Condition Inspection last night.
http://www.n696wg.com
(Aerosport IO-320, Hartzell Constant Speed, AFP fuel injection, 1
Lightspeed
and 1 Mag.)
I've been having a ball this last year flying around the great state of
California. But I have to admit it - I really miss the building ...
yeah, I
know, how messed up is that.
All the best ...
Gerry.
_________________________________________________
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify
the sender
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk
- Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com> |
| Subject: | My Electric Rudder Trim. |
It is just tied into the skin and then the triangle section is
glassed in all the way to the trailing edge.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 2:07 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: My Electric Rudder Trim.
Did you actually tie into the rudder stiffners with the new spar piece whic
h is infront of the trim surface cut out or is it only tied into the skins?
John G.
________________________________
From: Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:35:31 -0600
Subject: RE: RV10-List: My Electric Rudder Trim.
Yes, I re-enforced all around the perimeter of the cutout for t
he Trim Servo. You can see the angles on all for sides of the Servo plate.
Also I created a spar where the trim tab hinge mounts to. You can see in
the pictures there are two rivets above the 5 screws because I wanted to r
un it up to the next stiffeners in the rudder. I tell you it is very stron
g is this area, likely over-built, but that is better than under-built.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of ddddsp1(at)juno.com
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 11:46 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: My Electric Rudder Trim.
Ray,
Did you reinforce the Rudder where the tab mounts? Just thinking about an
y oil canning and structure support needed. Hope it works as designed...
....time to PAINT yet? :)
Dean
_____________________________________________________________
Click here for low prices on easy-to-use drug tests!<http://thirdpartyoffer
s.juno.com/TGL2112/fc/Ioyw6iifcGG0BKWh3fMtBvAPVUYvree4a7CtXz83o8ITzIOneHZTa
M/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
p://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Cost/labor saving ideas |
| From: | "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com> |
>>We have found that 50% of the build time is spent looking for stuff (I
just laid that tool down next to me - where is it?!?) - organize you
tools and parts well and keep things where they belong.
On the above note I found that the best tool box I ever owned was a
large pegboard with a specific place for each tool. You always know
where they are and if one (or several are missing).
Minimal cost and can look impressive when organized. It also prevents
you from buying your third set of box wrenches.
Robin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | My Electric Rudder Trim. |
| From: | "Patrick Pulis" <patrick.pulis(at)seagas.com.au> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Landing Light Question |
| From: | "n277dl" <dljinia(at)yahoo.com> |
so... did anyone take Steven up on his offer and try the HID in the wingtip? Hopefully
my QB wings and Fuse should leave Vans in the next couple weeks and I'm
trying to finalize "stuff" to get ordered. I've included the wing tip lights
in the kit but reading the reports tends to make me change back to the duckworths.
That's what I have in the -7A and they've been okay for 500 hours.
Guess I was just looking for the "new"stuff.
Doug
> I am very interested in the shadowing of headlights from the wingtip
> position. i have taken a lot of time and energy to develop and make a direct
> replacement hid kit for the wingtip light position. as a matter of fact i
> just received my stocking order last week (after 6 mo's of delay) and I've
> been testing the product on the bench. the results have been very good. What
> we ended up with was a 50watt 5000k hid lamp and ballast to drop in place
> with no modifications required.
> I'd like to recruit two flying rv10 owners who'd like to get a special deal
> on some hid lights in exchange for some real world feedback on the kit. the
> light output is awesome but if there is any coverage issues i may make a
> fiberglass cowl light as a third. at 3.5 amp each running two or three
> shouldn't pose ant problems from a current standpoint....
> what has the general feeling been about the standard lights mounted in the
> wingtips. this is the first i heard about light coverage (shadowing)
> issues....
>
> Steven dinieri
> IFLYRV10.COM
>
>
--------
Doug
RV7A flying ~500hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151559#151559
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Simon Barber <simon(at)superduper.net> |
Hi Gerry,
Welcome!
There are 2 other builders in the Bay Area that I know about - myself
and Jae Chang - both in San Francisco. I bought an already completed emp
kit from another builder, but then went and bought a house in San
Francisco. This has shelved building for a while as my finances catch
up. Looking forward to purchasing tools and the wing kit in a year or
so. Jae is making good progress I believe.
Simon Barber
Gerry Filby wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> Well now I've gone and done it - I sent in my order for an RV-10 empennage
> kit.
>
> Just wanted to say "Hi" to the group since I'll likely be bugging you with
> inane questions :-)
>
> Live in San Francisco and fly out of Half Moon Bay. I'm a "repeat offender"
> having completed my RV-9 in January of this year - she's got 300 hours on
> her and I started the first Annual Condition Inspection last night.
>
> http://www.n696wg.com
> (Aerosport IO-320, Hartzell Constant Speed, AFP fuel injection, 1 Lightspeed
> and 1 Mag.)
>
> I've been having a ball this last year flying around the great state of
> California. But I have to admit it - I really miss the building ... yeah, I
> know, how messed up is that.
>
> All the best ...
>
> Gerry.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> |
Gerry,
I heard that a -10 was in your future. You're gonna love it.
Dave Saylor
N921AC, 50 hrs, in the paint shop.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry Filby
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 12:20 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Howdy !
Hi Folks,
Well now I've gone and done it - I sent in my order for an RV-10 empennage
kit.
Just wanted to say "Hi" to the group since I'll likely be bugging you with
inane questions :-)
Live in San Francisco and fly out of Half Moon Bay. I'm a "repeat offender"
having completed my RV-9 in January of this year - she's got 300 hours on
her and I started the first Annual Condition Inspection last night.
http://www.n696wg.com
(Aerosport IO-320, Hartzell Constant Speed, AFP fuel injection, 1 Lightspeed
and 1 Mag.)
I've been having a ball this last year flying around the great state of
California. But I have to admit it - I really miss the building ... yeah, I
know, how messed up is that.
All the best ...
Gerry.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Gretz indicator LEDs |
Merry Christmas everyone,
For those of you with the Gretz pitot, did you install the LED indicator
lights on your panel? What are your thoughts, and how do you like the
Gretz so far?
Also, I am about to close up the wings and install the bottom skins.
Wires, AP servo, tubes for pitot and AOA, pitot mount are in. Anything
else I should consider before I start pounding? Thanks for any input.
Dave Leikam
40496
Preparing for an ice storm!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> |
| Subject: | Gretz indicator LEDs |
I left them out on the last two installaions. Sort of. On one (GlaStar) I
installed them behind the panel so if we ever wanted to see them we could.
In two years, including some cold weather IFR, we never had any reason to
wonder what heating mode we were in. So on my -10 I left them out all
together.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
N921AC, 50 hrs, in the paint shop
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 9:37 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Gretz indicator LEDs
Merry Christmas everyone,
For those of you with the Gretz pitot, did you install the LED indicator
lights on your panel? What are your thoughts, and how do you like the Gretz
so far?
Also, I am about to close up the wings and install the bottom skins. Wires,
AP servo, tubes for pitot and AOA, pitot mount are in. Anything else I
should consider before I start pounding? Thanks for any input.
Dave Leikam
40496
Preparing for an ice storm!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Reining" <wreining(at)gmail.com> |
Hello Gerry
Welcome. My son Jon and I are building a -10 in Oakland. He's got a Citabria
at the Oakland airport where we will eventually operate the -10. We are working
on the QB wings, but basically stalled until I finish converting my carport
to a garage. This is a great group - you are going to love it!
--------
Bill (and Jon) Reining
40514
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151625#151625
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
Gerry,
Welcome. The first gotcha will be the top rib in the Vertical Stab; you can read
all about it on the forum. The next surprise will be the RV-10 Elevator bucking
bar. You will use it once so see if you can borrow one.
John
--------
#40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151657#151657
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com> |
| Subject: | Trying to keep the belly clean - Air/Oil Separator |
For others that have been flying your RV-10 or other similar ai
rcraft, have you had any luck/experience with Air/Oil Separators?
I found on my RV-10 that if I run the oil between 8.5 and 9 qua
rts, that I would only add maybe 1 quart in 50 hours of operation. I also
found that if I run the engine rpm at 2450 in cruise, that it will blow mor
e oil than if I run at 2200 rpm. I usually use only 1 quart every 50 hours
, but on my trip to Santa Teresa for LOE 07, I used 1 quart in 10 - 12 hour
s. During this trip, I ran the entire way at 2450 rpm. There is no doubt
that it is all coming out the breather.
Has anyone installed an Air/Oil Separator on there RV-10 that h
as some experience on if it works and returns the oil to the sump instead o
f all over the belly? I would like to install one if it is going to work.
Right now oil on the belly is no big deal, but once I get some paint on it
, I would like to keep it clean.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250 (N519RV - 341 Hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> |
THAT BUCKING BAR IS ACTUALLY REALLY GOOD FOR USING AS A BACK RIVETING PLATE
FOR THE TAILCONE LONGERONS. SO i USED IT A LOT MORE THAN ONCE, ALSO IN THE
TUNNEL> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Howdy !> From: johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 07:04:34 -0800> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com> > --> R
V10-List message posted by: "johngoodman" > > Ge
rry,> Welcome. The first gotcha will be the top rib in the Vertical Stab; y
ou can read all about it on the forum. The next surprise will be the RV-10
Elevator bucking bar. You will use it once so see if you can borrow one.> >
John> > --------> #40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived> N711JG reserved> > > >
> Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.ph
=============> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Trying to keep the belly clean - Air/Oil Separator |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> |
Hi Ray,
I asked Mike Busch of "The Savvy Aviator" his opinions of air-oil
separators because I was interested in installing one on my RV-10. He
was not very encouraging. When I asked why he didn't like them he said:
Two reasons:
1. The air/oil separator interferes with the engine's ability to purge
itself of water, because it returns liquids to the crankcase instead of
allowing them to pass out the breather.
2. If the engine starts blowing excess oil out the breather (usually due
to excessive blow-by or some other condition that pressurizes the
crankcase), I want to know about it so I can troubleshoot the engine and
find the cause. If an air-oil separator conceals the excess oil
discharge, it isn't doing me any favors.
That's my view. Hope this helps...Mike
My RV-4 routes the crankcase breather line down to just above the
exhaust pipes and any oil that blows out hits the pipes and is vaporized
instantly. It does a pretty good job of keeping the belly clean.
Jack Phillips
#40610
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
[NTK]
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:12 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Trying to keep the belly clean - Air/Oil Separator
For others that have been flying your RV-10 or other similar
aircraft, have you had any luck/experience with Air/Oil Separators?
I found on my RV-10 that if I run the oil between 8.5 and 9
quarts, that I would only add maybe 1 quart in 50 hours of operation. I
also found that if I run the engine rpm at 2450 in cruise, that it will
blow more oil than if I run at 2200 rpm. I usually use only 1 quart
every 50 hours, but on my trip to Santa Teresa for LOE 07, I used 1
quart in 10 - 12 hours. During this trip, I ran the entire way at 2450
rpm. There is no doubt that it is all coming out the breather.
Has anyone installed an Air/Oil Separator on there RV-10
that has some experience on if it works and returns the oil to the sump
instead of all over the belly? I would like to install one if it is
going to work. Right now oil on the belly is no big deal, but once I
get some paint on it, I would like to keep it clean.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250 (N519RV - 341 Hrs)
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gerry Filby" <gerf(at)gerf.com> |
I've stopped by Jae's project a couple of times - he's moving right along
...
g
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Simon Barber
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Howdy !
Hi Gerry,
Welcome!
There are 2 other builders in the Bay Area that I know about - myself and
Jae Chang - both in San Francisco. I bought an already completed emp kit
from another builder, but then went and bought a house in San Francisco.
This has shelved building for a while as my finances catch up. Looking
forward to purchasing tools and the wing kit in a year or so. Jae is making
good progress I believe.
Simon Barber
Gerry Filby wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> Well now I've gone and done it - I sent in my order for an RV-10
> empennage kit.
>
> Just wanted to say "Hi" to the group since I'll likely be bugging you
> with inane questions :-)
>
> Live in San Francisco and fly out of Half Moon Bay. I'm a "repeat
offender"
> having completed my RV-9 in January of this year - she's got 300 hours
> on her and I started the first Annual Condition Inspection last night.
>
> http://www.n696wg.com
> (Aerosport IO-320, Hartzell Constant Speed, AFP fuel injection, 1
> Lightspeed and 1 Mag.)
>
> I've been having a ball this last year flying around the great state
> of California. But I have to admit it - I really miss the building
> ... yeah, I know, how messed up is that.
>
> All the best ...
>
> Gerry.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Howdy ! (HAF / Bay Area Flying ... Long) |
Hey Gerry... excellent post! a year ago, when you told me you were going
to build a -10 (even before finishing the -9), I thought to myself yeah
right. a few months after your first flight, when you had already put
over 150 hours in the plane, and you said you were still planning to
build again, i again thought to myself, yeah right. you're too busy
flying, as i would be too, to ever think about building anything more
than a paper airplane.
wow, you truly are crazy, ummm, in a most respectful way! ;) uhoh, now i
just have to finish before you do!!!
Jae
40533 - finally, entered the Gates of Fiberglass Hell - credit goes to
AirMike for coining that phrase
http://www.jline.com/log/aviation/build/airframe/fuselage/photos/sec43/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com> |
Hi Simon... yes, i am still here, poking along. you are welcome to stop
by any time.
There are a good handful of bay area -10 builders at this point, that i
know of, and more in all of NorCal: Concord, Oakland, SF, Sonoma
,Watsonville (x3), Stockton, Cameron Park (x2). At this point, we
officially have enough for a party. ;)
Jae
40533
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gerry Filby" <gerf(at)gerf.com> |
| Subject: | Thanks for the Welcome !! |
Thanks all for the greetings and tips I've received on and off list. Much
appreciated !
Now back to cleaning the rust of the tools :-)
g
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trying to keep the belly clean - Air/Oil Separator |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Unfounded or not, my concern about the separators is that
> all of the acids and things that you're not wanting in
> the oil will tend to be dumped back into the engine.
On my Glasair (Lyc O320) instead of letting it go out the belly or
dumping it back into the engine, the blow-by was captured in a container
that was emptied at each oil change. The breather hose went to the top
of the screw-on cap of the container, and there were vent holes cut
around it in the cap for the air to escape. I don't have a great
picture of it, but you can see it here in the bottom right up against
the firewall (the small white container). Simple concept, but it did a
great job of keeping things cleaner.
http://econ.duke.edu/~deej/glasair/engine2.jpg
This picture was taken prior to the restoration and clean-up, so
things look pretty dirty, but it is the only pic I can find at the moment.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
| Subject: | Safety-Trim Group Buy |
Dear Fellow RV Builders,
TCW Technologies and SteinAir are pleased to announce a group
buy is now available on our new servo trim controller. Safety-Trim is
an electronic trim servo controller that resolves the issues with
run-away trim conditions plus it provides 2 speed trim operation as well
as greatly simplified switch wiring.
For all the detail please follow this direct link:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=24478
Thank you,
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies
www.tcwtech.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Trying to keep the belly clean - Air/Oil Separator |
I used the Slime Fighter air/oil separator initially. The belly of my RV-10
was a oily mess when I cleaned it at about 70 hours, despite the fact that t
he
oil vent drips directly on the exhaust. I've since removed the separator an
d
now have the breather set up per Van's firewall forward plans. The belly
stays much cleaner now.
-Jim
N312JE
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew
In a message dated 12/11/2007 11:01:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com writes:
For others that have been flying your RV-10 or other similar aircraft, have
you had any luck/experience with Air/Oil Separators?
I found on my RV-10 that if I run the oil between 8.5 and 9 quarts, that I
would only add maybe 1 quart in 50 hours of operation. I also found that i
f I
run the engine rpm at 2450 in cruise, that it will blow more oil than if I
run at 2200 rpm. I usually use only 1 quart every 50 hours, but on my trip
to
Santa Teresa for LOE 07, I used 1 quart in 10 =93 12 hours. During t
his trip,
I ran the entire way at 2450 rpm. There is no doubt that it is all coming
out the breather.
Has anyone installed an Air/Oil Separator on there RV-10 that has some
experience on if it works and returns the oil to the sump instead of all ove
r the
belly? I would like to install one if it is going to work. Right now oil
on
the belly is no big deal, but_ once I get some paint on it, I would like to
keep it clean.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250 (N519RV =93 341 Hrs)
_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Gretz indicator LEDs |
I put them in my panel next to the pitot heat switch. I guess it's a warm
fuzzy seeing the system change modes as you expect it to.
Marcus
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 11:37 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Gretz indicator LEDs
Merry Christmas everyone,
For those of you with the Gretz pitot, did you install the LED indicator
lights on your panel? What are your thoughts, and how do you like the Gretz
so far?
Also, I am about to close up the wings and install the bottom skins. Wires,
AP servo, tubes for pitot and AOA, pitot mount are in. Anything else I
should consider before I start pounding? Thanks for any input.
Dave Leikam
40496
Preparing for an ice storm!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | AOA Pro vs AOA Sport |
| From: | "n277dl" <dljinia(at)yahoo.com> |
Group:
is the only difference in the pro vs sport the display?
Doug
--------
Doug
RV7A flying ~500hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151766#151766
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Ganster" <tganster(at)mwwb.net> |
| Subject: | Cost/labor saving ideas |
John,
I just tap the trigger which gives about 2 hits and works
well.
I must have put the dies in upside down for the picture. Or
maybe I should check to see if the dimples on my parts are all innies!
I put the dies out to the edge to facilitate getting the prebent (HS)
skins
under the table when dimpling the opposite side.
And yes I do have all surfaces covered to keep from
scratching
things.
Thanks for the input. And I will take your words of wisdom on cost
cutting.
Thanks
Tom Ganster 40778 Emp kit HS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:09 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Cost/labor saving ideas
Very interesting set up you have for your C frame.
How do you get your rivet gun to convert from an automatic to a single
fire?
It looks like you have your dies in upside down, with them that way, you
will be missing a lot of holes and making some unwanted ones. I think it
would be helpful to also make your table extended out beyond where the
dies
are to help support the material. Don't forget to put down the carpet on
the
table.
Be certain you know where and when to cut corners on cost.
Am I the fish that took the bait?
> Subject: RV10-List: Cost/labor saving ideas
> From: tganster(at)mwwb.net
> Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 19:07:07 -0800
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> I am interested in starting a thread showing cost saving ideas you
have
found while building your plane. I found two ideas from other RV
builders
while searching the web. I am a fairly new builder and I apologize if
these
are old hat.
> Rather than spending the money on alodine by the gallon and the hazard
shipping to go with it, I purchase 2 lbs. 14-2 iridite from a local
racing
supply house for $59.00. The dry powder mixes with water to make up to
40
gals. of alodine.
> I also built a c-frame dimpler from some scrap I had laying around the
shop. I mounted my rivet gun to the top of the piston for a very
November 30, 2007 - December 11, 2007
RV10-Archive.digest.vol-cv