RV10-Archive.digest.vol-cy
January 03, 2008 - January 15, 2008
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155834#155834
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount |
I concur: my QB number for the fuselage was #8 and they did not at that time
install the forward weldment support nut plates; I reported this to Van's
and indicated that that was the only reason to remove it. I believe that
they have since installed the nut plates for the forward support. In my case
they also installed the mid fuselage floorboards with stemmed blinds and
thus the removal was complicated slightly; it require some finesse to get
the floors out. Underneath nothing was found.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 6:40 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount
-->
Spent an hour today pouring over the plans and identifying the issues.
Pulling any of the floorboards (front or back) pretty much defeats the
purpose of "Quick Build" in my opinion. The front ones do have limited
access as far as fishing out surprises, but I don't see any other need to
get in there (please tell me if I'm wrong). The rear floorboards are very
thin in depth, but an errant cleco could be in there. I suspect a strong
magnet would answer that question.
As far as antenna placement, the baggage floor seems a far easier place for
access.
I hope that nobody thinks I'm being forward or pushy, but I'm at a loss for
a good reason to spend hours undoing what I just paid to have done.
Humbly and ready to take some shots,
John
--------
#40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155834#155834
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount |
John,
Your's may be different, but my QB had temporary (soft) rivets holding
the floorboards in and didn't take long to remove. I needed to remove those
rivets anyway and there weren't that many of them so it made sense to pop
them out and have a look. Plus the opportunity to add noise insulation. If
your panels are completely riveted in then I can see your hesitancy.
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 7:40 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount
Spent an hour today pouring over the plans and identifying the issues.
Pulling any of the floorboards (front or back) pretty much defeats the
purpose of "Quick Build" in my opinion. The front ones do have limited
access as far as fishing out surprises, but I don't see any other need to
get in there (please tell me if I'm wrong). The rear floorboards are very
thin in depth, but an errant cleco could be in there. I suspect a strong
magnet would answer that question.
As far as antenna placement, the baggage floor seems a far easier place for
access.
I hope that nobody thinks I'm being forward or pushy, but I'm at a loss for
a good reason to spend hours undoing what I just paid to have done.
Humbly and ready to take some shots,
John
--------
#40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155834#155834
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount |
if you are tearing a QB apart to find a cleco.. just move the fuselage
around and see if you hear anything.. I gathered people were doing this for
the insulation install and putting conduit in that space, hence the effort
to remove the floorboards to get in there. If you don't see any need to do
anything under the floor, I'd agree focus your time and effort elsewhere.
as far as being forward or pushy..I commend you for not being a blind
follower and thinking this out for your individual case.
Pascal
#720
----- Original Message -----
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 5:40 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount
>
> Spent an hour today pouring over the plans and identifying the issues.
> Pulling any of the floorboards (front or back) pretty much defeats the
> purpose of "Quick Build" in my opinion. The front ones do have limited
> access as far as fishing out surprises, but I don't see any other need to
> get in there (please tell me if I'm wrong). The rear floorboards are very
> thin in depth, but an errant cleco could be in there. I suspect a strong
> magnet would answer that question.
> As far as antenna placement, the baggage floor seems a far easier place
> for access.
>
> I hope that nobody thinks I'm being forward or pushy, but I'm at a loss
> for a good reason to spend hours undoing what I just paid to have done.
>
> Humbly and ready to take some shots,
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
> N711JG reserved
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155834#155834
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tailcone wiring |
If you go this route, as I did, it would be much easier to drill and
deburr the holes in the J stiffeners now. It is easy enough to run the
wire later. I have a wire runs on each side.
Get the static port in now, also much easier than later.
At least that is how I would do it /next /time.
Larry
#356
MauleDriver wrote:
> I waited until after I attached the tailcone and found that I didn't
> need to crawl into the tailcone at all (yet). With the fuselage at the
> right height, everything is very accessible for my 6' bod and reach.
> Because all of the tailcone wiring runs forward, my thinking is that
> it's all easier to do with the fuselage joined. Then you have a good
> long session of wiring the battery compartment, tailcone, and other stuff.
>
> My approach was to copy the routing used in Van's wiring kit (I didn't
> buy the kit). That is to run the wire down one of the J-stiffeners.
> Here's where thorough deburring pays off because you don't won't the
> wire to contact any burrs. For insurance, I put a 1 inch length of
> shrink tubing where it passes each bulkhead and then added a small
> length (3/8" perhaps) of edge grommet to each bulkhead. The grommet
> work really well without adhesive. It's all tied down with tie wraps.
> Very neat and easy. Giving the whole bundle a twist keeps everything
> especially neat. Which is not to say my installation is particularly
> neat... but I'll do better next time.
>
> I ran wire for the nav light, strobe, pitch trim, and rudder trim
> (just in case I do the rudder trim later). I holding off on the ELT
> hoping there will be an experimentally priced solution with the latest
> tech standard (900mhz or whatever). I'm going with wing tip Nav antenna.
>
> Generally, I'm avoiding conduit for all the initial wiring and only
> putting empty conduit in for any and all the stuff I'm bound to figure
> out later. Just a choice.
>
> Attached is a pic but I'm not sure it will post. I can send directly.
>
> Bill "done flying for a while and ready to build again" Watson
>
> Ben Westfall wrote:
>>
>> I am getting ready to attach the tailcone to the fuselage but I
>> figure it would be better / easier to run all the wires for the items
>> in the tail while I can still crawl into it before its attached. I
>> was thinking about running conduit through the bulkheads down one
>> side and pre running wires within it (or at least string).
>>
>> Items for wiring
>>
>> Nav Antenna
>>
>> Tail Nav light
>>
>> Tail Strobe light
>>
>> Pitch Trim Servo wiring
>>
>> ELT
>>
>> Does anyone have any pictures of how they routed their wiring?
>>
>> -Ben Westfall
>>
>> #40579
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount |
John,
I could not make up my mind. One day I was going to pull them out,
and the next day I wasn't going to. In the end, I decided to dig in
and do it. I am about halfway through the process and I must say, I
agree with you. I paid good money for the quick build and am now
spending lots of precious time taking it apart. I think the problems
with tools under the floor and quality control issues have probably
been laid to rest since the early days. It is not particularly hard,
just time consuming and the value is minimal. Since I am committed, I
plan to go ahead and put insulating/sound deadening material in
there. I will probably go ahead and put the transponder antenna and
perhaps a comm antenna under the front floor as well. But, if I had
it to do over again...........................probably not.
David Maib
40559
On Jan 3, 2008, at 7:40 PM, johngoodman wrote:
Spent an hour today pouring over the plans and identifying the
issues. Pulling any of the floorboards (front or back) pretty much
defeats the purpose of "Quick Build" in my opinion. The front ones do
have limited access as far as fishing out surprises, but I don't see
any other need to get in there (please tell me if I'm wrong). The
rear floorboards are very thin in depth, but an errant cleco could be
in there. I suspect a strong magnet would answer that question.
As far as antenna placement, the baggage floor seems a far easier
place for access.
I hope that nobody thinks I'm being forward or pushy, but I'm at a
loss for a good reason to spend hours undoing what I just paid to
have done.
Humbly and ready to take some shots,
John
--------
#40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155834#155834
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tailcone wiring |
Totally agree on both points. Drilling the holes for the ties in the J
channel were not much of an hassle after joining the fuse but would be
easier and done more accurately before joining. My static ports were
done before joining - a good way to go.
Larry Rosen wrote:
>
> If you go this route, as I did, it would be much easier to drill and
> deburr the holes in the J stiffeners now. It is easy enough to run the
> wire later. I have a wire runs on each side.
>
> Get the static port in now, also much easier than later.
>
> At least that is how I would do it /next /time.
>
> Larry
> #356
>
> MauleDriver wrote:
>> I waited until after I attached the tailcone and found that I didn't
>> need to crawl into the tailcone at all (yet). With the fuselage at
>> the right height, everything is very accessible for my 6' bod and
>> reach. Because all of the tailcone wiring runs forward, my thinking
>> is that it's all easier to do with the fuselage joined. Then you have
>> a good long session of wiring the battery compartment, tailcone, and
>> other stuff.
>>
>> My approach was to copy the routing used in Van's wiring kit (I
>> didn't buy the kit). That is to run the wire down one of the
>> J-stiffeners. Here's where thorough deburring pays off because you
>> don't won't the wire to contact any burrs. For insurance, I put a 1
>> inch length of shrink tubing where it passes each bulkhead and then
>> added a small length (3/8" perhaps) of edge grommet to each bulkhead.
>> The grommet work really well without adhesive. It's all tied down
>> with tie wraps. Very neat and easy. Giving the whole bundle a twist
>> keeps everything especially neat. Which is not to say my installation
>> is particularly neat... but I'll do better next time.
>>
>> I ran wire for the nav light, strobe, pitch trim, and rudder trim
>> (just in case I do the rudder trim later). I holding off on the ELT
>> hoping there will be an experimentally priced solution with the
>> latest tech standard (900mhz or whatever). I'm going with wing tip
>> Nav antenna.
>>
>> Generally, I'm avoiding conduit for all the initial wiring and only
>> putting empty conduit in for any and all the stuff I'm bound to
>> figure out later. Just a choice.
>>
>> Attached is a pic but I'm not sure it will post. I can send directly.
>>
>> Bill "done flying for a while and ready to build again" Watson
>>
>> Ben Westfall wrote:
>>>
>>> I am getting ready to attach the tailcone to the fuselage but I
>>> figure it would be better / easier to run all the wires for the
>>> items in the tail while I can still crawl into it before its
>>> attached. I was thinking about running conduit through the bulkheads
>>> down one side and pre running wires within it (or at least string).
>>>
>>> Items for wiring
>>>
>>> Nav Antenna
>>>
>>> Tail Nav light
>>>
>>> Tail Strobe light
>>>
>>> Pitch Trim Servo wiring
>>>
>>> ELT
>>>
>>> Does anyone have any pictures of how they routed their wiring?
>>>
>>> -Ben Westfall
>>>
>>> #40579
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
I did the wiring and static ports before attachment; it is easier to secure
the wiring, deburr the holes and install grommets or snap bushings. Another
means to secure the wiring is Adel clamps and click bond fasteners
http://www.clickbond.com/index.php. These can be epoxied anywhere and
provide a very secure wiring bundle to prevent chafing and repair down the
road.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: tailcone wiring
If you go this route, as I did, it would be much easier to drill and deburr
the holes in the J stiffeners now. It is easy enough to run the wire later.
I have a wire runs on each side.
Get the static port in now, also much easier than later.
At least that is how I would do it /next /time.
Larry
#356
MauleDriver wrote:
> I waited until after I attached the tailcone and found that I didn't
> need to crawl into the tailcone at all (yet). With the fuselage at the
> right height, everything is very accessible for my 6' bod and reach.
> Because all of the tailcone wiring runs forward, my thinking is that
> it's all easier to do with the fuselage joined. Then you have a good
> long session of wiring the battery compartment, tailcone, and other stuff.
>
> My approach was to copy the routing used in Van's wiring kit (I didn't
> buy the kit). That is to run the wire down one of the J-stiffeners.
> Here's where thorough deburring pays off because you don't won't the
> wire to contact any burrs. For insurance, I put a 1 inch length of
> shrink tubing where it passes each bulkhead and then added a small
> length (3/8" perhaps) of edge grommet to each bulkhead. The grommet
> work really well without adhesive. It's all tied down with tie wraps.
> Very neat and easy. Giving the whole bundle a twist keeps everything
> especially neat. Which is not to say my installation is particularly
> neat... but I'll do better next time.
>
> I ran wire for the nav light, strobe, pitch trim, and rudder trim
> (just in case I do the rudder trim later). I holding off on the ELT
> hoping there will be an experimentally priced solution with the latest
> tech standard (900mhz or whatever). I'm going with wing tip Nav antenna.
>
> Generally, I'm avoiding conduit for all the initial wiring and only
> putting empty conduit in for any and all the stuff I'm bound to figure
> out later. Just a choice.
>
> Attached is a pic but I'm not sure it will post. I can send directly.
>
> Bill "done flying for a while and ready to build again" Watson
>
> Ben Westfall wrote:
>>
>> I am getting ready to attach the tailcone to the fuselage but I
>> figure it would be better / easier to run all the wires for the items
>> in the tail while I can still crawl into it before it's attached. I
>> was thinking about running conduit through the bulkheads down one
>> side and pre running wires within it (or at least string).
>>
>> Items for wiring
>>
>> Nav Antenna
>>
>> Tail Nav light
>>
>> Tail Strobe light
>>
>> Pitch Trim Servo wiring
>>
>> ELT
>>
>> Does anyone have any pictures of how they routed their wiring?
>>
>> -Ben Westfall
>>
>> #40579
>>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
One other consideration: tie wraps get brittle and break with age. YOu can
use adel clamps or make sure the access is easy to replace when necessary.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: tailcone wiring
Totally agree on both points. Drilling the holes for the ties in the J
channel were not much of an hassle after joining the fuse but would be
easier and done more accurately before joining. My static ports were done
before joining - a good way to go.
Larry Rosen wrote:
>
> If you go this route, as I did, it would be much easier to drill and
> deburr the holes in the J stiffeners now. It is easy enough to run the
> wire later. I have a wire runs on each side.
>
> Get the static port in now, also much easier than later.
>
> At least that is how I would do it /next /time.
>
> Larry
> #356
>
> MauleDriver wrote:
>> I waited until after I attached the tailcone and found that I didn't
>> need to crawl into the tailcone at all (yet). With the fuselage at
>> the right height, everything is very accessible for my 6' bod and
>> reach. Because all of the tailcone wiring runs forward, my thinking
>> is that it's all easier to do with the fuselage joined. Then you have
>> a good long session of wiring the battery compartment, tailcone, and
>> other stuff.
>>
>> My approach was to copy the routing used in Van's wiring kit (I
>> didn't buy the kit). That is to run the wire down one of the
>> J-stiffeners. Here's where thorough deburring pays off because you
>> don't won't the wire to contact any burrs. For insurance, I put a 1
>> inch length of shrink tubing where it passes each bulkhead and then
>> added a small length (3/8" perhaps) of edge grommet to each bulkhead.
>> The grommet work really well without adhesive. It's all tied down
>> with tie wraps. Very neat and easy. Giving the whole bundle a twist
>> keeps everything especially neat. Which is not to say my installation
>> is particularly neat... but I'll do better next time.
>>
>> I ran wire for the nav light, strobe, pitch trim, and rudder trim
>> (just in case I do the rudder trim later). I holding off on the ELT
>> hoping there will be an experimentally priced solution with the
>> latest tech standard (900mhz or whatever). I'm going with wing tip
>> Nav antenna.
>>
>> Generally, I'm avoiding conduit for all the initial wiring and only
>> putting empty conduit in for any and all the stuff I'm bound to
>> figure out later. Just a choice.
>>
>> Attached is a pic but I'm not sure it will post. I can send directly.
>>
>> Bill "done flying for a while and ready to build again" Watson
>>
>> Ben Westfall wrote:
>>>
>>> I am getting ready to attach the tailcone to the fuselage but I
>>> figure it would be better / easier to run all the wires for the
>>> items in the tail while I can still crawl into it before it's
>>> attached. I was thinking about running conduit through the bulkheads
>>> down one side and pre running wires within it (or at least string).
>>>
>>> Items for wiring
>>>
>>> Nav Antenna
>>>
>>> Tail Nav light
>>>
>>> Tail Strobe light
>>>
>>> Pitch Trim Servo wiring
>>>
>>> ELT
>>>
>>> Does anyone have any pictures of how they routed their wiring?
>>>
>>> -Ben Westfall
>>>
>>> #40579
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | wiring rear headset jacks |
Are any 4 place wiring diagrams
available out there?
Front seats - need push-to-talk+intercom wiring
Rear seats - need intercom only wiring (right?)
I'm thinking 3 conductor shielded wire all the way around. Note that Stein has
most excellent pricing compared with others.
For the rear seats... Have folks run a single cable to
each pair of L/R seat jacks (i.e. 2 cables total w/ parallel circuits), one cable
per jack (4 cables total) or something different?
If wiring for stereo, how's that different (conductor-wise) than mono? Different
jacks too?
Thanks in advance for non-flammable replies.
Regards,
Jay
- jammin' on overhead and doors
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wiring rear headset jacks |
Jay the wiring diagram will come with your intercom. The only difference
we have made is we have wired the earth on the jacks all back to the
panel . The wiring diagram if stereo will also show you what wire goes
where. Very basic.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay Brinkmeyer
To: RV10
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 5:16 PM
Subject: RV10-List: wiring rear headset jacks
Are any 4 place wiring diagrams available out there?
Front seats - need push-to-talk+intercom wiring
Rear seats - need intercom only wiring (right?)
I'm thinking 3 conductor shielded wire all the way around. Note that
Stein has most excellent pricing compared with others.
For the rear seats... Have folks run a single cable to each pair of
L/R seat jacks (i.e. 2 cables total w/ parallel circuits), one cable per
jack (4 cables total) or something different?
If wiring for stereo, how's that different (conductor-wise) than mono?
Different jacks too?
Thanks in advance for non-flammable replies.
Regards,
Jay
- jammin' on overhead and doors
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Be a better friend, newshound, and
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tailcone wiring |
I have been 'playing' with the old style lacing material and have used
it in one inaccessible location in place of a tie wrap. I may do this
in a few other locations. The most productive technique seems to be to
use tie wraps initially then cut them off and tie off with lacing material.
Having said that, I look at the many tie wraps in my '96 Maule and see
little degradation. Including those under the cowl (non-heat resistant
type). I think I remember reading that in addition to high heat,
ultraviolet exposure will rapidly degrade the tie wraps. They sure are
handy.
David McNeill wrote:
>
> One other consideration: tie wraps get brittle and break with age. YOu can
> use adel clamps or make sure the access is easy to replace when necessary.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 8:21 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: tailcone wiring
>
>
> Totally agree on both points. Drilling the holes for the ties in the J
> channel were not much of an hassle after joining the fuse but would be
> easier and done more accurately before joining. My static ports were done
> before joining - a good way to go.
>
> Larry Rosen wrote:
>
>>
>> If you go this route, as I did, it would be much easier to drill and
>> deburr the holes in the J stiffeners now. It is easy enough to run the
>> wire later. I have a wire runs on each side.
>>
>> Get the static port in now, also much easier than later.
>>
>> At least that is how I would do it /next /time.
>>
>> Larry
>> #356
>>
>> MauleDriver wrote:
>>
>>> I waited until after I attached the tailcone and found that I didn't
>>> need to crawl into the tailcone at all (yet). With the fuselage at
>>> the right height, everything is very accessible for my 6' bod and
>>> reach. Because all of the tailcone wiring runs forward, my thinking
>>> is that it's all easier to do with the fuselage joined. Then you have
>>> a good long session of wiring the battery compartment, tailcone, and
>>> other stuff.
>>>
>>> My approach was to copy the routing used in Van's wiring kit (I
>>> didn't buy the kit). That is to run the wire down one of the
>>> J-stiffeners. Here's where thorough deburring pays off because you
>>> don't won't the wire to contact any burrs. For insurance, I put a 1
>>> inch length of shrink tubing where it passes each bulkhead and then
>>> added a small length (3/8" perhaps) of edge grommet to each bulkhead.
>>> The grommet work really well without adhesive. It's all tied down
>>> with tie wraps. Very neat and easy. Giving the whole bundle a twist
>>> keeps everything especially neat. Which is not to say my installation
>>> is particularly neat... but I'll do better next time.
>>>
>>> I ran wire for the nav light, strobe, pitch trim, and rudder trim
>>> (just in case I do the rudder trim later). I holding off on the ELT
>>> hoping there will be an experimentally priced solution with the
>>> latest tech standard (900mhz or whatever). I'm going with wing tip
>>> Nav antenna.
>>>
>>> Generally, I'm avoiding conduit for all the initial wiring and only
>>> putting empty conduit in for any and all the stuff I'm bound to
>>> figure out later. Just a choice.
>>>
>>> Attached is a pic but I'm not sure it will post. I can send directly.
>>>
>>> Bill "done flying for a while and ready to build again" Watson
>>>
>>> Ben Westfall wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am getting ready to attach the tailcone to the fuselage but I
>>>> figure it would be better / easier to run all the wires for the
>>>> items in the tail while I can still crawl into it before it's
>>>> attached. I was thinking about running conduit through the bulkheads
>>>> down one side and pre running wires within it (or at least string).
>>>>
>>>> Items for wiring
>>>>
>>>> Nav Antenna
>>>>
>>>> Tail Nav light
>>>>
>>>> Tail Strobe light
>>>>
>>>> Pitch Trim Servo wiring
>>>>
>>>> ELT
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone have any pictures of how they routed their wiring?
>>>>
>>>> -Ben Westfall
>>>>
>>>> #40579
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ---
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wiring rear headset jacks |
| From: | "jayb" <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> |
Almost anything is easy, once you know how it's done...
I found the PMA8000B datasheet here:
http://www.ps-engineering.com/docs/PMA8000B_IM.pdf
Rear headset mics: 2 conductor shielded
Rear headset phones: 3 conductor shielded
Thanks to those that responded both online and offline.
Regards,
Jay
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155919#155919
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | AFtermarket intersection fairings |
| From: | "Dawson-Townsend,Timothy" <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero> |
Has anyone used aftermarket intersection fairings for the gear legs?
Thoughts?
TDT
40025
Tim Dawson-Townsend
tdt(at)aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | wiring rear headset jacks |
| From: | "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> |
Jay,
You would use individual 3 pair shielded wire for the pilot and co-pilot headphones.
The rear passengers can share a common 3 pair. For the microphones you
will need an individual 2 pair for each place. Consider also adding another
3 pair to the front and rear for audio input. Most audio panels now allow separate
front and rear audio inputs. I'll have both front and rear audio inputs
with a switch so that front or rear passengers can listen to either front or
rear audio source. This all assumes stereo.
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those
who matter don't mind."
-- Dr. Suess
-------- Original Message --------
>
> Are any 4 place wiring diagrams
> available out there?
>
> Front seats - need push-to-talk+intercom wiring
> Rear seats - need intercom only wiring (right?)
>
> I'm thinking 3 conductor shielded wire all the way around. Note that Stein has
most excellent pricing compared with others.
>
> For the rear seats... Have folks run a single cable to
> each pair of L/R seat jacks (i.e. 2 cables total w/ parallel circuits), one cable
per jack (4 cables total) or something different?
>
> If wiring for stereo, how's that different (conductor-wise) than mono? Different
jacks too?
>
> Thanks in advance for non-flammable replies.
>
> Regards,
> Jay
> - jammin' on overhead and doors
>
>
>
>
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: tailcone wiring |
| From: | "jayb" <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> |
Very cool stuff.
Get 'em here... http://www.theflightshop.com/ClickBond/Click_Bond_Info.php
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155931#155931
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wiring rear headset jacks |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
Also for the archives, here's a link to 1/8" stereo jacks that are
ground isolated:
http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=161-7300-EX
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jayb
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 8:34 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: wiring rear headset jacks
Almost anything is easy, once you know how it's done...
I found the PMA8000B datasheet here:
http://www.ps-engineering.com/docs/PMA8000B_IM.pdf
Rear headset mics: 2 conductor shielded
Rear headset phones: 3 conductor shielded
Thanks to those that responded both online and offline.
Regards,
Jay
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155919#155919
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill & Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net> |
| Subject: | Battery box question |
I'm finally finishing up my modified battery tray but on page 10-16 step
8 (figure 3) I think I made a mistake. The figure has you countersink
#30 the 4 holes for the F1036B Battery Channels in the F1035
battery/bellcrank mount. I did this but started reading on and on page
10-17 step 6 (figure 3) it shows the 1036's laid over the countersinks I
just drilled and using AN470 rivets instead of 426's. I should've
looked ahead and realized that these didn't need countersunk but
hindsight is 20/20. My question is If I have screwed up how do I fix it
or do I need to worry about it???
Thanks,
Bill
Finally back to work
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AFtermarket intersection fairings |
Tim;
I'm currently working on the leg fairings. I met Mark Ritter this last
weekend and looked at his plane. He purchased some after market upper
fairings from faringsetc. I went and looked at the site. They were
$125 . I just couldn't get myself to spend that 100 + bucks. I did go
ahead and bond the lower fairings to the wheel pants and will then split
them so they can be taken apart. Should work well. I can get you some
pics if you need them. I was some more work, but I think it will look
better.
Fred
40515
Dawson-Townsend,Timothy wrote:
>
> Has anyone used aftermarket intersection fairings for the gear legs?
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
> TDT
>
> 40025
>
>
>
> Tim Dawson-Townsend
>
> tdt(at)aurora.aero
>
> 617-500-4812 (office)
>
> 617-905-4800 (mobile)
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AFtermarket intersection fairings |
| From: | "greghale" <ghale5224(at)aol.com> |
I tried to look up fairingsetc.com on the internet, but it says the site is no
longer available. Do you have the web site for the fairings?
Thanks,
Greg...
--------
Greg Hale rv8/rv10
www.nwacaptain.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155968#155968
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wiring rear headset jacks |
| From: | "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> |
This (1/8") is for the audio input jacks right? Standard aircraft earphone jacks
are 1/4" and microphone jacks are 7/32"
Since I'll be using Bose headsets all around, I'm thinking of NOT installing the
standard aircraft mic and earphone jacks. 21st century jacks for an aircraft
built in the 21st century. If I ever have to use a regular headphone, I'd just
use a 1/4 - 7/32 to Bose adapter.
http://www.bose.com/pdf/customer_service/owners/og_headset_x.pdf (Page 18)
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/bosehdst.php
Aircraft Spruce sells the the Bose jacks here is the part number.
Aircraft Panel Installation Kit 11-01846 $31.00
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those
who matter don't mind."
-- Dr. Suess
-------- Original Message --------
>
> Also for the archives, here's a link to 1/8" stereo jacks that are
> ground isolated:
> http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=161-7300-EX
>
> Bob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jayb
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 8:34 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: wiring rear headset jacks
>
>
> Almost anything is easy, once you know how it's done...
>
> I found the PMA8000B datasheet here:
>
> http://www.ps-engineering.com/docs/PMA8000B_IM.pdf
>
> Rear headset mics: 2 conductor shielded
> Rear headset phones: 3 conductor shielded
>
> Thanks to those that responded both online and offline.
>
> Regards,
> Jay
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155919#155919
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wiring rear headset jacks |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
Right - they are for the audio panel aux inputs.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Curtis
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 1:14 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: wiring rear headset jacks
This (1/8") is for the audio input jacks right? Standard aircraft
earphone jacks are 1/4" and microphone jacks are 7/32"
Since I'll be using Bose headsets all around, I'm thinking of NOT
installing the standard aircraft mic and earphone jacks. 21st century
jacks for an aircraft built in the 21st century. If I ever have to use
a regular headphone, I'd just use a 1/4 - 7/32 to Bose adapter.
http://www.bose.com/pdf/customer_service/owners/og_headset_x.pdf
(Page 18)
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/bosehdst.php
Aircraft Spruce sells the the Bose jacks here is the part number.
Aircraft Panel Installation Kit 11-01846 $31.00
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't
matter and those who matter don't mind."
-- Dr. Suess
-------- Original Message --------
>
> Also for the archives, here's a link to 1/8" stereo jacks that are
> ground isolated:
> http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=161-7300-EX
>
> Bob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jayb
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 8:34 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: wiring rear headset jacks
>
>
> Almost anything is easy, once you know how it's done...
>
> I found the PMA8000B datasheet here:
>
> http://www.ps-engineering.com/docs/PMA8000B_IM.pdf
>
> Rear headset mics: 2 conductor shielded
> Rear headset phones: 3 conductor shielded
>
> Thanks to those that responded both online and offline.
>
> Regards,
> Jay
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155919#155919
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AFtermarket intersection fairings |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
http://www.fairings-etc.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of greghale
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 12:46 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: AFtermarket intersection fairings
I tried to look up fairingsetc.com on the internet, but it says the site
is no longer available. Do you have the web site for the fairings?
Thanks,
Greg...
--------
Greg Hale rv8/rv10
www.nwacaptain.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155968#155968
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery box question |
not making sense to me but if you countersunk a 470 rivet hole just put
a 426 in that hole, if you did the opposite, than countersink the hole..
either way the hole should be the same size so whatever you need to make
it flush or not can be easily rectified.. as the strength should be the
same anyway..
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill & Tami Britton
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 8:55 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Battery box question
I'm finally finishing up my modified battery tray but on page 10-16
step 8 (figure 3) I think I made a mistake. The figure has you
countersink #30 the 4 holes for the F1036B Battery Channels in the F1035
battery/bellcrank mount. I did this but started reading on and on page
10-17 step 6 (figure 3) it shows the 1036's laid over the countersinks I
just drilled and using AN470 rivets instead of 426's. I should've
looked ahead and realized that these didn't need countersunk but
hindsight is 20/20. My question is If I have screwed up how do I fix it
or do I need to worry about it???
Thanks,
Bill
Finally back to work
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net> |
I just finished this today, plans and head unit from sales(at)experimentalaero.com
-- took about 5 hrs. to fabricate, align, weld, paint. The steel came from a
local scrap yard and is 1/4 instead of 3/16, so it's about 70 lbs. -- and since
it is heftier, I made the throat a little deeper.
I'm helping a friend build his RV-10 (wish we had had it for his!), and just got
my tail section kit for my own.
I added the laser X&Y axis guides ($5 ea. at Harbor Freight) to pinpoint where
the die is to help line up the hole. It's VERY sweet! Just thought I'd pass
on the laser thought.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
waiting on RV-10 finishing kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156072#156072
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/drdt2_medium_127.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/drdt_medium_233.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gerry Filby" <gerf(at)gerf.com> |
Thank you !! Thank you !!
What a brilliant idea. When I built my 9 I ended up with little track lines
on the skin where I was hunting for the hole and the lower die was
contacting the skin.
Problem solved.
g
>Just thought I'd pass on the laser thought.
>
>Later, - Lew
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | VP200 CU mounting? |
| From: | "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> |
Hey Jesse -
so now that you've done an RV-10 with the VP system, where have you
found to be the best place for the CU? inquiring minds want to know!
cj
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
You laser light solution appears to have just resolved my only complaint
with the DRDT-2. I guess I'll be heading to Harbor Freight when I get back
from the BCS Bowl.
Do you really need two lights to make it work effectively?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 10:23 PM
Subject: RV10-List: DRDT-2 dimpler
I just finished this today, plans and head unit from
sales(at)experimentalaero.com -- took about 5 hrs. to fabricate, align, weld,
paint. The steel came from a local scrap yard and is 1/4 instead of 3/16,
so it's about 70 lbs. -- and since it is heftier, I made the throat a little
deeper.
I'm helping a friend build his RV-10 (wish we had had it for his!), and just
got my tail section kit for my own.
I added the laser X&Y axis guides ($5 ea. at Harbor Freight) to pinpoint
where the die is to help line up the hole. It's VERY sweet! Just thought
I'd pass on the laser thought.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
waiting on RV-10 finishing kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156072#156072
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/drdt2_medium_127.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/drdt_medium_233.jpg
__________ NOD32 2766 (20080104) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill & Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net> |
I'm finally finishing up my modified battery tray but on page 10-16 step
8 (figure 3) I think I made a mistake. The figure has you countersink
#30 the 4 holes for the F1036B Battery Channels in the F1035
battery/bellcrank mount. I did this but started reading on and on page
10-17 step 6 (figure 3) it shows the 1036's laid over the countersinks I
just drilled and using AN470 rivets instead of 426's. I should've
looked ahead and realized that these didn't need countersunk but
hindsight is 20/20. My question is If I have screwed up how do I fix it
or do I need to worry about it???
Thanks,
Bill
Finally back to work
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Safety-Trim Group Buy |
Now that you guys sold over 100 units, I assume that production has a
backlog. Any idea about when shipping will happen?
Gary
40274 Pick up from paint shop this weekend. Yippppeeeeee!
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob-tcw
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 6:29 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Safety-Trim Group Buy
First I would like to thank all the builders who have signed up for the
group buy. We appreciate your business and look forward to serving you.
We hope you all have had a safe and enjoyable holiday season.
This is the final weekend of the Vansairforce group buy for our Safety-Trim
servo controller. Over 140 builders have signed up and will receive the
full $100 discount on the 2 axis controller and $50 discount on the single
axis controller. If you haven't signed up yet the promotion continues
until the Dec 31.
Other important notes. We've added a few more applications notes on our
web site including details on the wiring harness available for use with
Safety-Trim. Lastly, we are now selling an airspeed switch that is field
adjustable between 55 and 140 knots and is perfect for triggering the 2
speed function on Safety-Trim.
group buy link:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=24478
Best regards,
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies
www.tcwtech.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VP200 CU mounting? |
I have installed one on a tray between the sub-panel and the
instrument panel cross-bar all the way over on the right side of the
panel. Then you just need to leave the bottom right side of the panel
empty, which is easy with some panels I have seen and difficult with
others. One is installed on the sub-panel, also on the right side,
mounting vertically by modifying the right rib and making some stand-
offs to hold it. This allows you to use the whole panel, but you
can't have anything very deep on the right side of the panel, aft of
the CU.
If you could find a good place forward of the sub-panel that you could
get to, then that would allow more panel room, but it would have to be
mounted hanging from a tray mounted on the ribs, probably. My whole
philosophy is ease of access down the road, so I like to keep it aft
of the sub-panel.
It could also be mounted in the tail, but there are a lot of power
wires needing to go to the panel, so it would add a little bit of
weight in wiring, although it would clean up your panel area quite a
bit by keeping all of the wires for lights and things out in the wings
and tail away from your panel area.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Jan 4, 2008, at 10:51 PM, Chris Johnston wrote:
> Hey Jesse -
>
> so now that you've done an RV-10 with the VP system, where have you
> found to be the best place for the CU? inquiring minds want to know!
>
> cj
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: DRDT-2 dimpler |
| From: | "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net> |
To the center of the die is 23". That just happened to be how the material I had
to work with turned out -- I truly believe I could have added another 4 or
5 inches with no problem whatsoever. This thing is a monster, but solid as it
can be!
I was actually looking for a laser pointer with a single dot and I was thinking
of activating it with a limit switch on the ram so it would only come on when
needed. I couldn't wait and found these laser markers at Harbor Freight (Central
Machinery, Laser Marker, item 93242) for $5 apiece. They attach with magnets,
stickey pad, or screws and have an on/off switch. Since they form a line
instead of a dot, I got two so that they make a cross hair right over the female
die on the bottom. I read that some didn't like the male die on the bottom
cuz it scratched the surface trying to line it up with the hole -- this way
there's no scratch and easy alignment every time.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
waiting on RV-10 finishing kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156125#156125
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: DRDT-2 dimpler |
So how are you setting it up so it doesn't "reflect" off the aluminum and
cause some issues with the eyes?
Granted it is reflected but I still have my concerns..
Even HB warns about it on item# 93242-2VGA
* LASER PRODUCTS
DANGER: LASER LIGHT. AVOID DIRECT EYE EXPOSURE. Max. Output <5 mW.
This product complies with 21 CFR 1040.10 and 1040.11
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 7:56 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: DRDT-2 dimpler
>
> You laser light solution appears to have just resolved my only complaint
> with the DRDT-2. I guess I'll be heading to Harbor Freight when I get
> back
> from the BCS Bowl.
>
> Do you really need two lights to make it work effectively?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 10:23 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: DRDT-2 dimpler
>
>
> I just finished this today, plans and head unit from
> sales(at)experimentalaero.com -- took about 5 hrs. to fabricate, align, weld,
> paint. The steel came from a local scrap yard and is 1/4 instead of 3/16,
> so it's about 70 lbs. -- and since it is heftier, I made the throat a
> little
> deeper.
>
> I'm helping a friend build his RV-10 (wish we had had it for his!), and
> just
> got my tail section kit for my own.
>
> I added the laser X&Y axis guides ($5 ea. at Harbor Freight) to pinpoint
> where the die is to help line up the hole. It's VERY sweet! Just thought
> I'd pass on the laser thought.
>
> Later, - Lew
>
> --------
> non-pilot
> crazy about building
> waiting on RV-10 finishing kit
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156072#156072
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/drdt2_medium_127.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/drdt_medium_233.jpg
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2766 (20080104) Information __________
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: DRDT-2 dimpler |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
My Craftsman drill press has something similar that puts two laser lines on the
hole. The instructions make it pretty clear that it shouldn't be used with reflective
metals.
John
--------
#40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156143#156143
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Hein <n8vim(at)arrl.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Laser safety - Was Re: DRDT-2 dimpler |
Try something like this:
http://www.lasersafety.com/lasereyewear.html
-Jim 40384
johngoodman wrote:
>
>My Craftsman drill press has something similar that puts two laser lines on the
hole. The instructions make it pretty clear that it shouldn't be used with reflective
metals.
>John
>
>--------
>#40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
>N711JG reserved
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156143#156143
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DRDT-2 dimpler |
This sounds neat. But I can't quite figure out how it helps yet.
The technique I use is with the male die always on the top, I put the
hold in the male die, then press down the handle which moves the sheet
and the dies down onto the female die.
Putting the male die on the bottom produces scratches. Allowing the
sheet to lie on the female die and trying to hit it with the male die
will sooner or later result in a new hole.
I'm doing the baggage door right now on the DRDT-2 and I just can't
figure out how to take advantage of a laser guide line.
...but I think I'll get them anyway and play.
Bill Watson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: DRDT-2 dimpler |
Unfortunately, with the leading edges having the male on top would involve
putting the c-frame inside the skins and I fear even if i used something
there would be worse scratching of the insides than anything I would do to
the outside skins, which BTW is covered with paint eventually; unless I am
missing something with the method, than please let me know as I am
interested in your method.
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: "MauleDriver" <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: DRDT-2 dimpler
>
> This sounds neat. But I can't quite figure out how it helps yet.
> The technique I use is with the male die always on the top, I put the hold
> in the male die, then press down the handle which moves the sheet and the
> dies down onto the female die.
>
> Putting the male die on the bottom produces scratches. Allowing the sheet
> to lie on the female die and trying to hit it with the male die will
> sooner or later result in a new hole.
>
> I'm doing the baggage door right now on the DRDT-2 and I just can't figure
> out how to take advantage of a laser guide line.
> ...but I think I'll get them anyway and play.
>
> Bill Watson
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
Most people put the male die on the bottom and use the pin as a center and hold.
Yes it may scratch a little but unless you are polishing the aluminum rather
than painting, it makes no difference. You'll find that you can get into quite
the rhythm with the DRDT and knock out dimple jobs in a hurry using the male
on the bottom. Just don't get into the "zone" too much and miss a hole. Ask
several of us how we know. :)
My 0.02
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: DRDT-2 dimpler
This sounds neat. But I can't quite figure out how it helps yet.
The technique I use is with the male die always on the top, I put the
hold in the male die, then press down the handle which moves the sheet
and the dies down onto the female die.
Putting the male die on the bottom produces scratches. Allowing the
sheet to lie on the female die and trying to hit it with the male die
will sooner or later result in a new hole.
I'm doing the baggage door right now on the DRDT-2 and I just can't
figure out how to take advantage of a laser guide line.
...but I think I'll get them anyway and play.
Bill Watson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DRDT-2 dimpler |
Well, I'm a QB builder so I missed some of the more challenging dimpling
jobs. I should say that I always try to use the male die on the top but
I'm sure there are exceptions that I've forgotten about (tail skins?).
I'm headed out to Harbor Freight now since I just heard they have their
2 ton crane on sale.
Bill
Pascal wrote:
>
> Unfortunately, with the leading edges having the male on top would
> involve putting the c-frame inside the skins and I fear even if i used
> something there would be worse scratching of the insides than anything
> I would do to the outside skins, which BTW is covered with paint
> eventually; unless I am missing something with the method, than please
> let me know as I am interested in your method.
> Pascal
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "MauleDriver" <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 9:14 AM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: DRDT-2 dimpler
>
>
>>
>> This sounds neat. But I can't quite figure out how it helps yet.
>> The technique I use is with the male die always on the top, I put the
>> hold in the male die, then press down the handle which moves the
>> sheet and the dies down onto the female die.
>>
>> Putting the male die on the bottom produces scratches. Allowing the
>> sheet to lie on the female die and trying to hit it with the male die
>> will sooner or later result in a new hole.
>>
>> I'm doing the baggage door right now on the DRDT-2 and I just can't
>> figure out how to take advantage of a laser guide line.
>> ...but I think I'll get them anyway and play.
>>
>> Bill Watson
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
Just watch the angles that you have them aimed at and the likelihood of direct
eye contact is pretty slim. As someone else said, protective glasses would also
work and double as safety glasses. You do wear safety glasses don't you?
:D
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: DRDT-2 dimpler
So how are you setting it up so it doesn't "reflect" off the aluminum and
cause some issues with the eyes?
Granted it is reflected but I still have my concerns..
Even HB warns about it on item# 93242-2VGA
* LASER PRODUCTS
DANGER: LASER LIGHT. AVOID DIRECT EYE EXPOSURE. Max. Output <5 mW.
This product complies with 21 CFR 1040.10 and 1040.11
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 7:56 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: DRDT-2 dimpler
>
> You laser light solution appears to have just resolved my only complaint
> with the DRDT-2. I guess I'll be heading to Harbor Freight when I get
> back
> from the BCS Bowl.
>
> Do you really need two lights to make it work effectively?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 10:23 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: DRDT-2 dimpler
>
>
> I just finished this today, plans and head unit from
> sales(at)experimentalaero.com -- took about 5 hrs. to fabricate, align, weld,
> paint. The steel came from a local scrap yard and is 1/4 instead of 3/16,
> so it's about 70 lbs. -- and since it is heftier, I made the throat a
> little
> deeper.
>
> I'm helping a friend build his RV-10 (wish we had had it for his!), and
> just
> got my tail section kit for my own.
>
> I added the laser X&Y axis guides ($5 ea. at Harbor Freight) to pinpoint
> where the die is to help line up the hole. It's VERY sweet! Just thought
> I'd pass on the laser thought.
>
> Later, - Lew
>
> --------
> non-pilot
> crazy about building
> waiting on RV-10 finishing kit
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156072#156072
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/drdt2_medium_127.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/drdt_medium_233.jpg
>
>
> __________ NOD32 2766 (20080104) Information __________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdalton77" <jdalton77(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Emailing: IMG_0927, IMG_0932, IMG_0935, IMG_0938 |
Dave,
I'm curious about how you attached the aircraft to your car. Did you use
the towbar?
Jeff Dalton
Wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 12:43 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Emailing: IMG_0927, IMG_0932, IMG_0935, IMG_0938
> Another milestone this morning. The trip to the airport was about 2 miles
> at 0600 on city streets. All the other parts are ready at the hangaar.
> Hopefully March.
>
>
> Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
> attachments:
>
>
> IMG_0927
> IMG_0932
> IMG_0935
> IMG_0938
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Engine development and politics |
| From: | "Dawson-Townsend,Timothy" <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero> |
Michael wrote:
"We are the product of a capitalist and litigious society, not a pretty
thing but our own fault."
I'll give you litigious, but you're not implying that a
socialist/Marxist/Maoist society would have better aircraft engine
choices are you? Governments have a historically-poor record at picking
winners and losers in technological or business issues . . .
TDT
40025
Tim Dawson-Townsend
tdt(at)aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Parker Rolo-Flair tool |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
Just bought a Parker Rolo-Flair tool and the directions are really poor. The flairing
part is not the problem, I can't figure out how to rotate the multi-die
wheels. I'm afraid I'll damage it if I start taking it apart.
Any hints on how to change the wheel with the dies?
John
--------
#40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156245#156245
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount |
| From: | "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net> |
Patrick #40715,
I meant to comment on your entry earlier about stripping screws on the side panels.
I also had that problem until I decided to bite the bullet and buy a cordless
impact driver. I'm sure that's what they were put in with -- mass production,
quick build, etc. These drivers are wonderful! I borrowed a friend's
Ryobi to try it. My other cordless tools are DeWalt, so I ended up getting that
one so I could use my existing batteries and charger. I no longer dread opening
and closing panels with the off round nut plates. This is NOT a hammer
drill. When it reaches a certain torque, it goes into impact mode. Usually it
only takes a tap or two in reverse to loosen, then it functions as a regular
electric screw driver. Be careful tightening as it can twist the head off if
you over torque it.
Another time saver was a pneumatic pop riveter -- $20 well spent when it comes
to popping the floor panels alone!
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
waiting on RV-10 finishing kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156246#156246
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Parker Rolo-Flair tool |
The wheels rotate with finger pressure (bale open). Try some WD-40 or such
to loosen them up.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (375 hrs)
RV-10 (wings)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 9:25 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Parker Rolo-Flair tool
Just bought a Parker Rolo-Flair tool and the directions are really poor. The
flairing part is not the problem, I can't figure out how to rotate the
multi-die wheels. I'm afraid I'll damage it if I start taking it apart.
Any hints on how to change the wheel with the dies?
John
--------
#40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156245#156245
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net> |
We're installing the wingtip marker/strobe and landing light Van's kit, and it
calls for just one countersunk screw on top and bottom corners of the lens. In
Plexiglas instructions I've read elsewhere, they always say not to countersink
but to oversize drill the screw hole and use a washer to allow for expansion/contraction
movement.
I've seen other wingtip lens on the 6A that have several screws & washers along
each edge of the lens. Has something changed? Different lens material? Would
it be better to at least add more screws?
While I'm on Plexiglas ... the owner of the 6A I was looking at said that some
of his friends who do acrobatics, have had the fiberglass bond of the windshield
forward edge crack where it bonds to the aluminum. They are adding an aluminum
strip riveted to the skin that comes up over the Plexiglas 3/4" or so to
add mechanical strength, then glassing over that ... comments?
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
waiting on RV-10 finishing kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156251#156251
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: DRDT-2 dimpler |
sure do, I have a new pair of welder googles.. problem is I can't see what
I'm doing.. ;-) seriously though after having a speck of wood dust, making
the table, get in my eyes I have worn protective googles ever since.
Thanks for the insight, that is actually what I was looking for..
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 10:21 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: DRDT-2 dimpler
>
>
> Just watch the angles that you have them aimed at and the likelihood of
> direct eye contact is pretty slim. As someone else said, protective
> glasses would also work and double as safety glasses. You do wear safety
> glasses don't you? :D
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 9:07 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: DRDT-2 dimpler
>
>
> So how are you setting it up so it doesn't "reflect" off the aluminum and
> cause some issues with the eyes?
> Granted it is reflected but I still have my concerns..
> Even HB warns about it on item# 93242-2VGA
> * LASER PRODUCTS
> DANGER: LASER LIGHT. AVOID DIRECT EYE EXPOSURE. Max. Output <5 mW.
> This product complies with 21 CFR 1040.10 and 1040.11
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 7:56 PM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: DRDT-2 dimpler
>
>
>>
>> You laser light solution appears to have just resolved my only complaint
>> with the DRDT-2. I guess I'll be heading to Harbor Freight when I get
>> back
>> from the BCS Bowl.
>>
>> Do you really need two lights to make it work effectively?
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
>> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 10:23 PM
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: DRDT-2 dimpler
>>
>>
>> I just finished this today, plans and head unit from
>> sales(at)experimentalaero.com -- took about 5 hrs. to fabricate, align,
>> weld,
>> paint. The steel came from a local scrap yard and is 1/4 instead of
>> 3/16,
>> so it's about 70 lbs. -- and since it is heftier, I made the throat a
>> little
>> deeper.
>>
>> I'm helping a friend build his RV-10 (wish we had had it for his!), and
>> just
>> got my tail section kit for my own.
>>
>> I added the laser X&Y axis guides ($5 ea. at Harbor Freight) to pinpoint
>> where the die is to help line up the hole. It's VERY sweet! Just
>> thought
>> I'd pass on the laser thought.
>>
>> Later, - Lew
>>
>> --------
>> non-pilot
>> crazy about building
>> waiting on RV-10 finishing kit
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156072#156072
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/drdt2_medium_127.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/drdt_medium_233.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________ NOD32 2766 (20080104) Information __________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gerry Filby" <gerf(at)gerf.com> |
| Subject: | Parker Rolo-Flair tool |
Make sure the two halves are not clamped together with the swing arm and
wingnut, they should rotate easily - there's a spring loaded detent that
locates each wheel in the correct spot.
The swing arm when, in the un-clamped position, has a pointer attached to it
that serves as the marker to judge how much tube should be protruding
through the dies.
Lube up the flaring face with a dash of your favorite light oil - Boelube or
cutting oil. Don't over flare - there needs to be sufficient metal
thickness for the flare fitting to squeeze without thinning to the point
that the tube is weakened.
Don't forget to slide the nut and collar on BEFORE you flare ;-) (Ai ya ya
how many times have I had to re-do a flare because I forgot the collar....
X-)
Hope this isn't TMI - just trying to save you a few curses and wasted
lengths of tubing :-)
g
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 6:25 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Parker Rolo-Flair tool
-->
Just bought a Parker Rolo-Flair tool and the directions are really poor. The
flairing part is not the problem, I can't figure out how to rotate the
multi-die wheels. I'm afraid I'll damage it if I start taking it apart.
Any hints on how to change the wheel with the dies?
John
--------
#40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156245#156245
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip lens |
Lew,
The wingtip lens plastic, is labeled as plexi, but it's properties are
different from the plexi used for the windows. The wing tip lens/covers
are much softer. If you use a microstop countersink you will find that
it quickly grabs and digs into the plastic. (ask me how I know) making
it difficult to obtain a smooth countersunk hole (at least for me) I
bought some stainless steel countersunk washers to use to 'doctor-up'
and hide the 'chattered' countersunk holes. I've purchased a
replacement lens and am going to remake them, and take more care in
countersinking the holes. I have no magic plan other than to go very
slow and use very light pressure. I'll also probably use progressive
sizes to avoid taking off too much at a time.
I used 3 screws per lens, one in the corner and one midway on top and
bottom. The differences in the fiberglass tips and the lenses curvature
requires additional screws in my case.
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2024%20Wing%20Tips/slides/DSC02085.html
http://deemsrv10.com/album/LED%20Nav%20&%20Strobes/slides/DSC02219.html
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
Lew Gallagher wrote:
>
> We're installing the wingtip marker/strobe and landing light Van's kit, and it
calls for just one countersunk screw on top and bottom corners of the lens.
In Plexiglas instructions I've read elsewhere, they always say not to countersink
but to oversize drill the screw hole and use a washer to allow for expansion/contraction
movement.
>
> I've seen other wingtip lens on the 6A that have several screws & washers along
each edge of the lens. Has something changed? Different lens material? Would
it be better to at least add more screws?
>
> While I'm on Plexiglas ... the owner of the 6A I was looking at said that some
of his friends who do acrobatics, have had the fiberglass bond of the windshield
forward edge crack where it bonds to the aluminum. They are adding an aluminum
strip riveted to the skin that comes up over the Plexiglas 3/4" or so to
add mechanical strength, then glassing over that ... comments?
>
> Later, - Lew
>
> --------
> non-pilot
> crazy about building
> waiting on RV-10 finishing kit
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156251#156251
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Parker Rolo-Flair tool |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
Thanks for the tips. The wheels on mine definitely won't budge. I've tried using
as much force as I can with only my hands and they won't move. If there is a
spring there, I can't feel it.
John
--------
#40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156263#156263
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Emailing: IMG_0956, IMG_0952 |
Its always a question whether the wings will match the fuselage when both
are QBs from different batches. we used grade 8 3/8s and 9/16s sizes. we
also had two long 3/8s of normal variety. We found the normal hardware bolts
to be about .369 and .559 respectively. The grade 8s were .373 and .559. The
NAS bolts were .373 and .561. Buy the ACE bolts and use a band saw to cut
off the threads; then grind and polish the ends with the grinder and
scotchbrite wheels. We lubed with LPS2. The actual time to install each wing
was about 5 minutes but the time to trim and install the fairings totaled
about 4.5 hours. That was after my pre prep of a couple of hours pulling the
hardware and tools necessary from the kit trays. Thanks Deems and Paul and
Tom for the extra muscle.
David and Claude
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip lens |
| From: | "nukeflyboy" <flymoore(at)charter.net> |
I have an RV-6 and I frequently turn it greasy side up. Never had the problem
of cracks as you described, nor heard of it. There are a lot of factors here:
slider or tilt-up, epoxy or vinyl resin, number of layers on the layup, 3.5 G
loop or 4.5 G, etc.
I don't think the aluminum is necessary, and it would be tough to make this compound
curve.
You don't plan on doing this (aerobatics) with your 10, do you? If so, install
a G-meter, don't exceed some small number (say 2.5), and stick with the plans.
--------
Dave
RV-6 flying
RV-10 QB building
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156296#156296
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DRDT-2 dimpler |
I guess there really is more than one way to skin a '10.
The folks (Jacob) down in Griffin GA suggested the male die on top
approach - mainly so you don't miss a hole (useful) and don't scratch
(not important). It works but don't ask. I've certainly built a rhythm
around that approach too.
In any case , the DRDT certainly beats its predecessor (can you 'bang'
hear me 'bang' now?)
Bill "with a couple of nervous cats" Watson
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>
> Most people put the male die on the bottom and use the pin as a center and hold.
Yes it may scratch a little but unless you are polishing the aluminum rather
than painting, it makes no difference. You'll find that you can get into
quite the rhythm with the DRDT and knock out dimple jobs in a hurry using the
male on the bottom. Just don't get into the "zone" too much and miss a hole.
Ask several of us how we know. :)
>
> My 0.02
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver
> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 11:15 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: DRDT-2 dimpler
>
>
> This sounds neat. But I can't quite figure out how it helps yet.
>
> The technique I use is with the male die always on the top, I put the
> hold in the male die, then press down the handle which moves the sheet
> and the dies down onto the female die.
>
> Putting the male die on the bottom produces scratches. Allowing the
> sheet to lie on the female die and trying to hit it with the male die
> will sooner or later result in a new hole.
>
> I'm doing the baggage door right now on the DRDT-2 and I just can't
> figure out how to take advantage of a laser guide line.
>
> ...but I think I'll get them anyway and play.
>
> Bill Watson
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount |
What brand and model do you use? Didn't even know they existed
(Googling now).
I use a driver with a T-handle to do this - much slower but it works.
Very useful in removing QB tanks. Pic attached.
Thanks!
Bill Watson
40605
Lew Gallagher wrote:
>
> Patrick #40715,
>
> I meant to comment on your entry earlier about stripping screws on the side panels.
I also had that problem until I decided to bite the bullet and buy a cordless
impact driver. I'm sure that's what they were put in with -- mass production,
quick build, etc. These drivers are wonderful! I borrowed a friend's
Ryobi to try it. My other cordless tools are DeWalt, so I ended up getting
that one so I could use my existing batteries and charger. I no longer dread
opening and closing panels with the off round nut plates. This is NOT a hammer
drill. When it reaches a certain torque, it goes into impact mode. Usually
it only takes a tap or two in reverse to loosen, then it functions as a regular
electric screw driver. Be careful tightening as it can twist the head off
if you over torque it.
>
> Another time saver was a pneumatic pop riveter -- $20 well spent when it comes
to popping the floor panels alone!
>
> Later, - Lew
>
> --------
> non-pilot
> crazy about building
> waiting on RV-10 finishing kit
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156246#156246
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Schipper <mike(at)learningplanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Parker Rolo-Flair tool |
I think the Rolo-Flair tools are prone to assembly errors. When I
received mine, the wheels were installed backwards, which produced a
hard outside edge on the flair. Close examination showed that the
bevel was on the wrong side, so I called Avery to see about a
replacement. Since it was a Friday and I had some work to do over the
weekend, I decided that it was possible to disassemble the tool myself
(after all, how complicated can it be...I'm building an airplane!) and
reassemble it with the wheels in the correct orientation.
After some fiddling with the various parts to get them all back in
place, I was able to get the Rolo-Flair put back together correctly,
and it has served me well ever since. I did talk to Bob Avery about
the issue because I can imagine that I wouldn't be the only one to
receive an incorrectly assembled tool.
If you decide to disassemble yours, be careful not to drop the ball
bearings and springs that will probably pop out when you take the
wheels apart. They're hard to find.
http://www.my9a.com/wings8.asp#062304
Regards,
Mike Schipper
#40576 - Fuse - www.rvten.com
On Jan 5, 2008, at 10:21 PM, johngoodman wrote:
> >
>
> Thanks for the tips. The wheels on mine definitely won't budge. I've
> tried using as much force as I can with only my hands and they won't
> move. If there is a spring there, I can't feel it.
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
> N711JG reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount |
| From: | "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net> |
Bill, Nice tool, but you won't believe how these power drivers will change your
life!
Here's a quick shot of the Ryobi on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Ryobi-18-Volt-Impact-Driver-New-P231_W0QQitemZ280189857137QQihZ018QQcategoryZ71297QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Here's the DeWalt like mine: http://cgi.ebay.com/DeWalt-DW056-18V-Cordless-Impact-Driver-NEW_W0QQitemZ280187210049QQihZ018QQcategoryZ42272QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
They're both similar (both probably made at same place in China) -- and the techno
freaks can tell you about torq specs and blows per minute -- just get one
or borrow one, you'll like it!
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
waiting on RV-10 finishing kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156339#156339
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Ritter <mritter509(at)MSN.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Parker Rolo-Flair tool |
I had the same problem as Michael and had to disassemble and reassemble the
rolo flair tool correctly.
Mark
RV-10/N410MR
> From: mike(at)learningplanet.com> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: Re:
RV10-List: Re: Parker Rolo-Flair tool> Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 10:03:33 -0600
com>> > I think the Rolo-Flair tools are prone to assembly errors. When I >
received mine, the wheels were installed backwards, which produced a > har
d outside edge on the flair. Close examination showed that the > bevel was
on the wrong side, so I called Avery to see about a > replacement. Since it
was a Friday and I had some work to do over the > weekend, I decided that
it was possible to disassemble the tool myself > (after all, how complicate
d can it be...I'm building an airplane!) and > reassemble it with the wheel
s in the correct orientation.> > After some fiddling with the various parts
to get them all back in > place, I was able to get the Rolo-Flair put back
together correctly, > and it has served me well ever since. I did talk to
Bob Avery about > the issue because I can imagine that I wouldn't be the on
ly one to > receive an incorrectly assembled tool.> > If you decide to disa
ssemble yours, be careful not to drop the ball > bearings and springs that
will probably pop out when you take the > wheels apart. They're hard to fin
d.> > http://www.my9a.com/wings8.asp#062304> > Regards,> Mike Schipper> #40
576 - Fuse - www.rvten.com> > > On Jan 5, 2008, at 10:21 PM, johngoodman wr
link.net > > >> >> > Thanks for the tips. The wheels on mine definitely won
't budge. I've > > tried using as much force as I can with only my hands an
d they won't > > move. If there is a spring there, I can't feel it.> > John
> >> > --------> > #40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived> > N711JG reserved> > >
========================> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_0120
08
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Hudes <phudes(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitplane's article, Ly-Con's case closed. |
Les,
On Jan 6, 2008, at 10:16 AM, LES KEARNEY wrote:
> Hi Kelly
>
>
> Compare the production runs of auto engines to a/c engines. Auto
> engine production runs can run into the hundreds of thousands in a
> single year. Think of the QA/QC and engineering effort that goes
> into these engines, the quality of the parts and the tolerances of
> the manufacturing process. Hands down, I am of the opinion that
> these engines will have a higher inherent reliability than
> traditional engines. Keep in mind that my engine will be a factory
> new engine (in fact I helped un-crate it on Thursday at the
> Eggenfellenr shop). It is not a reman, it is not rebuilt, and it is
> not modified
Auto engines have been designed and tested to be operated in a
different environment than aircraft engines. They are operated a
majority of their life at a low percentage of power at low RPMs, not
at a high percentage of power at high RPMs.
> There are new risks I need to manage but these are reasonable. Will
> this engine be more or less risky than a traditional engine I
> cant say. But I will mitigate the risk reviewing each system,
> identifying risks and doing what I can to mitigate each risk.
How are you going to evaluate and mitigate the risks associated with
the PRU and prop combo?
>
Pete Hudes
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount |
Just curious? Why would you want an impact driver for screws? Most DC
power drills have a variable setting for screws and are designed to slip at
each setting. I set mine on the lightest one, screw until it slips and go
on. Never had a screw break or bend the platenut and never had one that
would not back out easily. What do you gain with the impact driver ?
BTW, my 7 qb came with a polishing bonnet under the baggage floors ;-) No
charge !
Just curious ?
Bill S
7a 80/80
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 10:42 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount
Bill, Nice tool, but you won't believe how these power drivers will change
your life!
Here's a quick shot of the Ryobi on Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Ryobi-18-Volt-Impact-Driver-New-P231_W0QQitemZ2801898571
37QQihZ018QQcategoryZ71297QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Here's the DeWalt like mine:
http://cgi.ebay.com/DeWalt-DW056-18V-Cordless-Impact-Driver-NEW_W0QQitemZ280
187210049QQihZ018QQcategoryZ42272QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
They're both similar (both probably made at same place in China) -- and the
techno freaks can tell you about torq specs and blows per minute -- just get
one or borrow one, you'll like it!
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
waiting on RV-10 finishing kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156339#156339
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LES KEARNEY <Kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitplane's article, Ly-Con's case closed. |
Peter
As I mntioned in my post to Kelly=2C I am not an engine expert / guru /
authority by any stretch=2E Below is an exract from Ross Farnham=27s web
site=3A http=3A//www=2Esdsefi=2Ecom/air7=2Ehtml
Many lay people often point out that automotive engines are not designed
for continuous high output applications and will blow up when installed
in an aircraft=2E This view is a result of complete ignorance in my opi
nion and is not supported by any credible facts=2E Modern automotive eng
ines make use of the latest advances in computer design and modeling to
optimize the design of everything from port flow=2C port resonance tunin
g=2C combustion chamber characteristics=2C vibrational node analysis and
mechanical stresses=2E Machining and metallurgy technology is far super
ior to the old days when the air cooled=2C flat engines were developed=2E
Technology has indeed progressed on automotive engines in the last 40 y
ears=2E
Automotive engines are routinely tested during development at full power
and maximum rpm for periods of up to 1200 hours on a dynomometer=2E The
se engines must be able to withstand whatever stresses a customer might
inflict on them such as flat out cruising on the autobahn or endurance r
acing=2C without failure=2E Manufacturer=27s limits are conservative to
guarantee longevity and reliability=2E The engineering and capital inves
tment that goes into a new engine release dwarfs any similar development
by any piston aircraft engine manufacturer=2E The testing and validatio
n methods FAR exceed those required on piston aircraft engines=2E In Eur
ope=2C cars are routinely cruised at speeds (RPMs and load) 50-100=25 hi
gher than what we see in North America with no ill effects in life span=2E
This is real world=2C long term hard use=2E
Just one example of the demonstrated real world reliability on the popul
ar Subaru EJ22 engine was the 1989 record set by 3 Legacy=27s at an Ariz
ona test track=2E These cars were run flat out for 17 days straight with
out failure at an average speed of over 138 mph=2E Similar records have
been set by Saab and Chevrolet=2E How many people reading this article t
hink that most aircraft engines would survive at 100=25 takeoff power fo
r 400 hours=3F Subaru now offers the production 2=2E5L turbo STI rated a
t 300 hp=2C With the popularity of showroom stock endurance racing in th
e last decade=2C we get to see just how good the design and engineering
is on modern cars=2E Thousands of Hondas=2C Toyotas=2C Oldsmobiles=2C Ch
evrolets=2C Mitsubishis=2C VWs etc=2E are mercilessly flogged to the rev
limiter at full throttle for hundreds of hours between rebuilds=2E A ve
ry small fraction of these ever suffer a serious failure=2E Aircraft use
does not put this kind of cyclic stress on an engine=2C being a constan
t load=2C relatively low rpm situation=2E Most modern car engines outlas
t the chassis without ever being removed=2E This performance can be equa
ted into lifespans of between 4000 and 8000 hours=2E Even operating at 7
5=25 of maximum power and rpm limits=2C it is reasonable to expect a TBO
of at least 1000 hours in aircraft use=2E
Cheers
Les
----- Original Message -----
From=3A Peter Hudes =3Cphudes=40ix=2Enetcom=2Ecom=3E
Date=3A Sunday=2C January 6=2C 2008 12=3A21 pm
Subject=3A Re=3A RV10-List=3A Kitplane=27s article=2C Ly-Con=27s case cl
osed=2E
To=3A rv10-list=40matronics=2Ecom
=3E --=3E RV10-List message posted by=3A Peter Hudes =3Cphudes=40ix=2Ene
tcom=2Ecom=3E
=3E
=3E Les=2C
=3E
=3E On Jan 6=2C 2008=2C at 10=3A16 AM=2C LES KEARNEY wrote=3A
=3E
=3E =3E Hi Kelly
=3E =3E
=3E =3E
=3E =3E
=3E =3E Compare the production runs of auto engines to a/c engines=2E
=3E Auto
=3E =3E engine production runs can run into the hundreds of thousands
=3E in a
=3E =3E single year=2E Think of the QA/QC and engineering effort that
=3E goes
=3E =3E into these engines=2C the quality of the parts and the
=3E tolerances of
=3E =3E the manufacturing process=2E Hands down=2C I am of the opinion
=3E that
=3E =3E these engines will have a higher inherent reliability
=3E than
=3E =3E traditional engines=2E Keep in mind that my engine will be a
=3E factory
=3E =3E new engine (in fact I helped un-crate it on Thursday at
=3E the
=3E =3E Eggenfellenr shop)=2E It is not a reman=2C it is not rebuilt=2C
and
=3E it is
=3E =3E not modified
=3E
=3E
=3E Auto engines have been designed and tested to be operated in
=3E a
=3E different environment than aircraft engines=2E They are operated
=3E a
=3E majority of their life at a low percentage of power at low RPMs=2C
=3E not
=3E at a high percentage of power at high RPMs=2E
=3E
=3E =3E There are new risks I need to manage but these are reasonable=2E
=3E Will
=3E =3E this engine be more or less risky than a traditional engine '
=3E I
=3E =3E can=92t say=2E But I will mitigate the risk reviewing each
=3E system=2C
=3E =3E identifying risks and doing what I can to mitigate each risk=2E
=3E
=3E How are you going to evaluate and mitigate the risks associated
=3E with
=3E the PRU and prop combo=3F
=3E =3E
=3E
=3E Pete Hudes
=3E
=3E =5F-======================
========================
=============
=3E =5F-= - The
=3E RV10-List Email Forum -
=3E =5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
=3E =5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription=2C
=3E =5F-= Archive Search =26 Download=2C 7-Day Browse=2C Chat=2C FAQ=2C
=3E =5F-= Photoshare=2C and much much more=3A
=3E =5F-= --=3E http=3A//www=2Ematronics=2Ecom/Navigator=3FRV10-List
=3E =5F-======================
========================
=============
=3E =5F-
=3E = - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
=3E =5F-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
=3E =5F-= --=3E http=3A//forums=2Ematronics=2Ecom
=3E =5F-======================
========================
=============
=3E =5F-
=3E = - List Contribution Web Site -
=3E =5F-= Thank you for your generous support!
=3E =5F-
=3E = -Matt Dralle=2C List Admin=2E
=3E =5F-= --=3E http=3A//www=2Ematronics=2Ecom/contribution
=3E =5F-======================
========================
=============
=3E
=3E
=3E
=3E
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LES KEARNEY <Kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitplane's article, Ly-Con's case closed. |
Peter
To answer your questions regarding the prop and PSRU, I will be monitoring the
PSRU oil temp and doing oil analysis on a regular basis. There will also be periodic
inspections for oil leaks etc. Anything out of the ordinary will be investigated
and resolved. This is pretty much what I am doing with my Lyc O-360.
Cheers
Les
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Hudes <phudes(at)ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sunday, January 6, 2008 12:21 pm
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Kitplane's article, Ly-Con's case closed.
>
> Les,
>
> How are you going to evaluate and mitigate the risks associated
> with
> the PRU and prop combo?
> >
>
> Pete Hudes
>
> RV10-List Email Forum -
> _-
> = - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> _-
> = - List Contribution Web Site -
> _-
> = -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: VP200 CU mounting? |
| From: | "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> |
Jesse,
would it be possible to see some pictures of the mount?
Best Regards from Switzerland
Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (fuselage)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156405#156405
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitplane's article, Ly-Con's case closed. |
Hi Les,
I'm afraid you are missing the point. Yes, flat air cooled engines
were designed before WWII. No, the IO540 was not.
The current, dynamically counter balanced engine dates from the late
seventies/early 80s. Lets see...oh yeah, that is about when Subaru
came out with their H-4 design...which was really a water cooled
modification of the VW design, that dates back to, oh yeah, before
WWII. So, design vintage is really pretty much the same. We all
naturally defend whatever choice we make. You hear a LOT more about
Lycoming problems because there are thousands of them out there. All
the so called automotive technology, really has changed little since
1970 other than ignition and fuel delivery. I think you will find that
cylinder wall machining, piston machining, cam machining etc have
changed very little. Most of the improvement was incremental for
durability, emission control and fuel economy. Aircraft engines have
had similar improvements, you just don't hear much about them, because
they don't change the certification.
For Lycomings, very few have roller lifters. Very few have cold air
induction. Even fewer have electronic ignition. If you think it is
better, you can get Superior's investment cast cylinders. You can have
an engine shop do custom improvements, like honing the valve guides
instead of reaming. You can go with gapless rings to reduce blowby and
oil contamination. Etc. Etc. There simply is very little technology
difference beyond the electronic engine management unit. Which happens
to be one of the biggest failure modes of autos today. You would be
astounded how many ECUs get changed out in cars...whether or not they
are the real problem.
Or you can choose as you have a very proven auto engine, that has very
little experience in aircraft, with a PSRU that has even less aviation
experience. That is the beauty of experimentals...you have the right
to choose.
Then you can choose zinc chromate or epoxy primer and Continental
gold, Lyc gray or blue, Ultimate black, Mattituck red/gold, or purple
for your engine color. ;-) And as Tim said, you get to install
radiator, engine management computer and monitor those extra systems.
On Jan 6, 2008 11:16 AM, LES KEARNEY wrote:
>
>
> Hi Kelly
>
>
> My apologies if my characterization of the IO540 seemed "not intellectually
> honest". Ouch! I was simply trying to press the point that the basic design
> of the Lycoming is firmly rooted in the past. There have been improvements
> over the years but the fundamental design has not changed.
>
>
> At KOSH this year, one engine supplier spent 20 minutes explaining to me why
> their IO540 was better than an out of the box Lycoming IO540. It was all
> about improving lubrication and fixing problems that Lycoming could fix
> didn't want to fix because of the certification process. My club AME
> (Canadian A&P) speaks of his high replacement rate for IO540 jugs.
>
>
> I just don't see the attractiveness of these engines. They are old,
> problematic designs.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wonderful Oz-RV Family |
| From: | "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> |
I just wanted to tell you folks that by purchasing the kit you get way more than
sheet metal and, composite parts, you actually become part of a wonderful community.
I spend my last two month traveling through Australia with my wife. And I took
the chance to drop some emails to RV-10 builders there and I hardly remember being
so much welcome ever before.
I want to thank Pat, Chris and John for your hospitality!!!
Take care and keep on building.
Michael (Switzerland)
www.wellenzohn.net
--------
RV-10 builder (fuselage)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156408#156408
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | F-1099G-l and -R |
Seems like there ought to be at least one screw in that piece holding it to
the fairing skin. My plans don't show one; they are from 4th quarter 2004
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount |
| From: | "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net> |
Bill,
I had trouble not stripping out the Phillip's heads on the side panels that were
on the QB fuse -- they were really tight. I even tried the hammer impact driver
on some. The advantage of these cordless impact drivers (don't think impact
wrench, like lug nut wrenches) is that they end with the impact when they
tighten, start with impact when they loosen. You also have no torque on the wrist
like you do with the drill/screw drivers. And there's almost no chance of
messing up the head of the screw.
Keep what you've got if you're happy with it!
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
waiting on RV-10 finishing kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156453#156453
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Parker Rolo-Flair tool |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
After all the suggestions, I started to gently disassemble the tool and suddenly
it started rotating correctly. Go figure. Anyway, thanks for all the help and
comments.
John
--------
#40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156462#156462
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | neil <ncol(at)xtra.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Wonderful Oz-RV Family |
I really agree that there is so much international help available for
RV10 builders - thankfully. Without the help of many, inc Tim, Deems,
Gary, Will, Rhonda, Stein etc, we couldn't have done it. Great service
from the whole community, even at silly times of day.
Good job too, as there is still only 1 RV10 in NZ.
But we do have the best scenery on the planet:-)
Come on you Aussie builders - how about a short trip across the ditch?
We hope to be with you next month - any suggestions as to places to
visit?
Neil & Sarah
ZK-RVT
56 hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Simon Wilson" <simon(at)sertech.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitplane's article, Ly-Con's case closed. |
I have been reading the engine debate with some interest. There are pros and
cons to all types.
Just to stir the pot a little more!!!! have a look at this South African
development.
http://www.adeptairmotive.com/site/default.asp
It hasn't even flown yet, but it is running. It has been designed from the
ground up as a GA engine.
Turbocharged, 320hp at 5500 rpm, 70% 210hp at 2300 rpm, Integrated PSRU,
Liquid cooled, Compatible with Avgas OR Mogas, FADEC, 130kg (287lb).
Targeted TBO is in excess of 2000 hours. The engine has a fairly oversquare
bore/stroke ratio (98mm x 70mm) in order to keep piston speed low, as well
as fairly short con rods. Now before anybody has a go at the revs, the
average piston speed is actually lower than conventional GA engines because
of the oversquare setup.
It is a 120 degree V6 of 3.2 litre capacity. Real smooth.
Just for those with a little experimentation in their blood. Attached is a
picture.
Simon Wilson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wonderful Oz-RV Family |
| From: | "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net> |
Neil, From a street rod builder's point of view, flames are so cool! But my buddy
who owns the RV-10 we're building says flames are definitely something he
does NOT want on his plane! Please send more pictures.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
waiting on RV-10 finishing kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156515#156515
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kitplane's article, Ly-Con's case closed. |
In a message dated 1/7/2008 3:24:40 AM Central Standard Time,
simon(at)sertech.com.au writes:
Just to stir the pot a little more!!!! have a look at this South African
development.
Their strategy is to price this experimental engine...unproven ...at
Lycoming and Continental's current prices, because they say it will weight less
than
current engines. Apparently they do not intend to have it certified.
So let me understand...they want what the current certified guys want for
engines, they want the experimental builders pay extra for a weight difference
and the experimenal operators, take all the risk; plus they are based in a
country where you can't take any legal action if this engine poops out and
kills you...sounds like a deal to me...
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kitplane's article, Ly-Con's case closed. |
In a message dated 1/6/2008 1:48:30 PM Central Standard Time,
Kearney(at)shaw.ca writes:
Even operating at 75% of maximum power and rpm limits, it is reasonable to
expect a TBO of at least 1000 hours in aircraft use.
Cheers
Les
Les,
What do you think this belief in 1000 hours is based on?
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com> |
Lew;
Here's the link to the pics for the wheel pants. :
http://picasaweb.google.com/drfredparis/Engine
As you can see from the pics I still have some sanding to do. Also, I
did not want to sound harsh in my email about the top fairings from
farings-etc. I'm sure they make a great product. I just decided not to
use them. I'll take some more pics when I put them back on. However,
it was 75 deg here in Paris yesterday and I decided to roll the plane
out side and put the engine on last night. Lets see: do I want to sand
or hang the engine???
As for the DRDT dimpler. Looks great, just make sure you get the good
spring back dimple dies. It makes all the difference.
Couple hints that will help. Both Tim Olsen and Deems Davis have done a
great job in documenting pics and mods for most everything. Check
there sites out for pics and tips.
Regarding the engine cowling: I decided to use the skybolt along the
top and sides and use hinges for the lower cowl. There is a link to
them on vansairforce.net. They have the kit all set up for what you
decide to do.
Dr Fred
40515
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitplane's article, Ly-Con's case closed. |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
Aaahh, Engines! If you want to get real exotic, try these:
The StarRotor Corp. Brayton cycle engine
http://www.starrotor.com/Engine.htm
The Beare Six Cycle engine
http://www.sixstroke.com/index.html
The infamous Axial Vector Engine Corp.
http://www.axialvectorengine.com/index.html
The Air Force HTRE-3 nuclear aircraft engine
http://members.tripod.com/airfields_freeman/ID/Airfields_ID_N.htm
My favorite is electric drag racing.
http://www.nedra.com/
These guys are actually breaking track records. They use electric fork lift motors
with lots of batteries.......I think I'm going to need a larger battery tray
than the one Van sent me....... [Wink]
--------
#40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156541#156541
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wonderful Oz-RV Family |
| From: | "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com> |
Neil, YES More Pictures Please...
Robin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | neil <ncol(at)xtra.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Wonderful Oz-RV Family |
As requested. - more pics of beautiful NZ with a rather bright RV10.
At the World Gliding Grand Prix Championships at Omarama, in South
Island .
Back on our home strip.
Just east of Mount Cook
Over Mt Ruapehu - our local active volcano
A huge whirlpool, north of Kaikoura
If you would like larger pics, send PM.
On 8 Jan 2008, at 4:44, Robin Marks wrote:
>
> Neil, YES More Pictures Please...
>
> Robin
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Legs/wheelpants |
Hey Fred,
Thanks for the pics! I've been devouring Tim's site, but only heard
reference to Deems. I immediately googled him and found his site -- and
spent the last half hour surfing!
Paris, France? This is great ... I just emailed a guy in New Zealand about
his paint job. My Step-Mom is from Chauny (between Paris and St. Quentin)
and they used to go every other summer until my Dad died in 1999. I toured
through in 1969 after being discharged from the Army (drafted in '67 - spent
'68-'69 in Vietnam) so I wasn't too happy with the U.S. and Europe was a
wonderful place to decompress.
Later, - Lew
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 9:52 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Legs/wheelpants
>
>
> Lew;
>
> Here's the link to the pics for the wheel pants. :
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/drfredparis/Engine
>
> As you can see from the pics I still have some sanding to do. Also, I did
> not want to sound harsh in my email about the top fairings from
> farings-etc. I'm sure they make a great product. I just decided not to
> use them. I'll take some more pics when I put them back on. However, it
> was 75 deg here in Paris yesterday and I decided to roll the plane out
> side and put the engine on last night. Lets see: do I want to sand or
> hang the engine???
> As for the DRDT dimpler. Looks great, just make sure you get the good
> spring back dimple dies. It makes all the difference.
> Couple hints that will help. Both Tim Olsen and Deems Davis have done a
> great job in documenting pics and mods for most everything. Check there
> sites out for pics and tips.
> Regarding the engine cowling: I decided to use the skybolt along the top
> and sides and use hinges for the lower cowl. There is a link to them on
> vansairforce.net. They have the kit all set up for what you decide to do.
> Dr Fred
> 40515
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: qb kit-front floor panels removal and gear mount |
Too late - I'm going shopping. I was just sharing what I've been doing
so far. This is pure learning experience (not to mention new tool
acquisition)
Lew Gallagher wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> I had trouble not stripping out the Phillip's heads on the side panels that were
on the QB fuse -- they were really tight. I even tried the hammer impact
driver on some. The advantage of these cordless impact drivers (don't think impact
wrench, like lug nut wrenches) is that they end with the impact when they
tighten, start with impact when they loosen. You also have no torque on the
wrist like you do with the drill/screw drivers. And there's almost no chance
of messing up the head of the screw.
>
> Keep what you've got if you're happy with it!
>
> Later, - Lew
>
> --------
> non-pilot
> crazy about building
> waiting on RV-10 finishing kit
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156453#156453
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Legs/wheelpants |
Hate to let you down. Paris, Texas.
We do have a small Eiffel Tower.
Dr Fred.
Lew Gallagher wrote:
>
> Hey Fred,
>
> Thanks for the pics! I've been devouring Tim's site, but only heard
> reference to Deems. I immediately googled him and found his site --
> and spent the last half hour surfing!
>
> Paris, France? This is great ... I just emailed a guy in New Zealand
> about his paint job. My Step-Mom is from Chauny (between Paris and
> St. Quentin) and they used to go every other summer until my Dad died
> in 1999. I toured through in 1969 after being discharged from the
> Army (drafted in '67 - spent '68-'69 in Vietnam) so I wasn't too happy
> with the U.S. and Europe was a wonderful place to decompress.
>
> Later, - Lew
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Williams, M.D."
>
> To: "RV 10"
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 9:52 AM
> Subject: RV10-List: Legs/wheelpants
>
>
>>
>>
>> Lew;
>>
>> Here's the link to the pics for the wheel pants. :
>>
>> http://picasaweb.google.com/drfredparis/Engine
>>
>> As you can see from the pics I still have some sanding to do. Also, I
>> did not want to sound harsh in my email about the top fairings from
>> farings-etc. I'm sure they make a great product. I just decided not
>> to use them. I'll take some more pics when I put them back on.
>> However, it was 75 deg here in Paris yesterday and I decided to roll
>> the plane out side and put the engine on last night. Lets see: do I
>> want to sand or hang the engine???
>> As for the DRDT dimpler. Looks great, just make sure you get the
>> good spring back dimple dies. It makes all the difference.
>> Couple hints that will help. Both Tim Olsen and Deems Davis have
>> done a great job in documenting pics and mods for most everything.
>> Check there sites out for pics and tips.
>> Regarding the engine cowling: I decided to use the skybolt along the
>> top and sides and use hinges for the lower cowl. There is a link to
>> them on vansairforce.net. They have the kit all set up for what you
>> decide to do.
>> Dr Fred
>> 40515
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitplane's article, Ly-Con's case closed. |
Heck you are missing the DynaCam, which IS a certified engine, that is
always going into production "next" year. Or you could totally ignore
Vans and mount up an Orenda engine that also is certified at somewhere
around 5-600hp.
On Jan 7, 2008 8:52 AM, johngoodman wrote:
>
> Aaahh, Engines! If you want to get real exotic, try these:
>
> The StarRotor Corp. Brayton cycle engine
> http://www.starrotor.com/Engine.htm
>
> The Beare Six Cycle engine
> http://www.sixstroke.com/index.html
>
> The infamous Axial Vector Engine Corp.
> http://www.axialvectorengine.com/index.html
>
> The Air Force HTRE-3 nuclear aircraft engine
> http://members.tripod.com/airfields_freeman/ID/Airfields_ID_N.htm
>
> My favorite is electric drag racing.
> http://www.nedra.com/
> These guys are actually breaking track records. They use electric fork lift motors
with lots of batteries.......I think I'm going to need a larger battery
tray than the one Van sent me....... [Wink]
>
> --------
> #40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
> N711JG reserved
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156541#156541
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: DRDT-2 dimpler |
| From: | "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net> |
Who'd a thunk there'd a been so much interest in a couple a laser gismo's!
Thanks for the comments.
Last evening I was experimenting in less than daylight to see what the deal with
reflection is. It appears that there's only one spot a few inches off center
on the horizontal axis that would reflect in your eye -- if you made an effort
to look at it. That's because of the angle of the mounting.
This weekend I'll try a simple hood of tape to narrow the cross hair and eliminate
that angle.
Now, off to that pesky career that gets in the way of my real job.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
waiting on RV-10 finishing kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156740#156740
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Fiberglass class in Watsonville with RV10 focus |
Well, I just signed up for the 2 day class. I just starting looking at
putting the top on and queried Dave Saylor about the class and found
out one is scheduled for the end of the month. Given all the belly
aching about the fiberglass work, I was getting a bit of indigestion.
What better cure than some training!
Have any of you attended this? Any tips?
Bill "doing misc fuse work and getting ready for fiberglass" Watson
40605
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass class in Watsonville with RV10 focus |
| From: | "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com> |
I'm also going. Airline tickets purchased, suit case has been pulled out.
Maybe a year from now, airline tickets will be a thing of the past. [Laughing]
Really looking forward to meeting some more -10 builders in person.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Fuselage SB
(N410GB reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156758#156758
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Kitplane's article, Ly-Con's case closed. |
| From: | John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com> |
Oh, gawd help me, but I cannot stop myself. Here goes.
I wrote awhile back that I'm going to stick to Ly-Con because I didn't know
enough to know what questions to ask. Now, I know that was a somewhat
stupid statement, especially because I could find out, given my research
background, but the point was, and this verbiage below confirms it, I have
no clue when enough testing is enough, or enough failures are too many. I
am not an aeronautical or mechanical or anything engineer. The one thing I
cannot abide are statements that say almost nothing, but sound like they
have expertise. "A very small fraction of these ever suffer a serious
failure." Ok then, what's the fraction and how does that compare to the
current crop of Ly-Con's. What's a serious failure? What were the
outcomes? Did the car quit running? Did the people slam into a concrete
wall at 100 mph, because that's what an aviator would essentially do, and
whomever else was onboard, and that's why the family scenario keeps coming
up.
Putting an "experimental" engine into a four place aircraft is fine. As I
said before I'm all for moving the bar forward. I don't know what
engineering good or bad has gone into the certified Ly-Cons. I do know that
the expensive certification process has kept them from easily making these
engines more "advanced." The final testing that goes into the auto
conversions, however, is left to those who are flying them. It was the same
way when the Ly-Cons were first being put out. If the auto conversion folks
put their designs through thousands of hours of testing in conditions that
simulate what a real plane goes through, then fine. Show the data. Show the
process. If they are doing so and I'm naive in what I'm saying, fine,
correct me. But so far, the only statements I've seen are the obfuscating
statements (crap, really) that I typically put into a report when I don't
know the answer.
Why is one PSRU better than another? Why did Jan declare that everyone must
change to the new one? Stronger? How? Is the prop/PSRU combination the
issue? Was there a harmonic issuer? Was the metallurgy on the gears
better? Were the gears cracking? When you check your PSRU oil, will it
tell you that there's a hairline crack in a gear? How will the engine hold
up if you get a coolant leak? Will it stop working or get you to a safe
landing? How will you know you have a coolant leak while in flight? I am
sure that all those who are becoming Subaru test pilots for free will have
asked these and thousands of other questions and gotten very good answers.
I haven't ever seen anyone come back with a list of these questions and the
answers and posted them, but since I'm not following the postings on these
lists, maybe they have. Hope so. Now, this is not to say that every and
all Ly-Con's shouldn't be taken to task with the thousands of questions that
an auto conversion should be, with each question answered by test results.
We should all be wanting to know what's the deal. Why do Ly-Con's develop
hairline cracks in their jugs after 500 hours? Etc. We have a very large
number of very good engine build specialists out there with good knowledge
and experience and the willingness to share information (and Ly-Con will
share some test results).
I want Les to succeed. I want Jan, even though I have reservations about
the person, to succeed. I want the folks from South Africa to build the
best darn engine that has come along in a long long time. Just don't rely
on non-critical statements. If you deal with a person who won't back up
their claims with facts and thorough testing, walk away, which is what I did
with Jan. And don't subject anyone else to your test bed. And, one more
thing, make sure that when it fails, and it will, they all will, that the
manufacturer is the type that will come, take the engine back, go over it
with a fine toothed gizmo, do root cause analysis until the cows come home,
and help the NTSB determine if the fault was the engine and why, and not
just walk away and say it wasn't their fault. You've taken it upon yourself
to be their test bed, they might as well admit to that and be part of it
contractually. I know they won't, but to me, that is the reality of it and
that's why I'll go the route that seems to be working. Ly-Con's with
annuals. Annuals because I know the environment and how they are run are
going to cause problems, eventually, sometimes sooner than later, and that's
why we do annuals, not because the technology is so old or bad that we
shouldn't have to need them. We do them because when our engine quits, we
cannot pull off to the side of the road, we get to do what race car drivers
do, we get to plow into the barrier at speeds that do not usually guarantee
happy outcomes in a vehicle built out of aluminum, sans safety cage.
Les, I met you once in Oregon and have followed your comments on this list
and I've always been impressed with your care and thoroughness and
intelligence. Please help us all out as you go through this journey and
document as much as possible, especially in terms of the questions that you
have asked and the answers given. That baby is going to run smooth as silk
when you first fire it up, I'm sure. But I'd be doing an annual's worth on
it every 50 hours for the forseeable future, until you and the fleet of
similar installations are sure you have a winner. Good luck!
John Jessen
40328.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LES KEARNEY
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Kitplane's article, Ly-Con's case closed.
Peter
As I mntioned in my post to Kelly, I am not an engine expert / guru /
authority by any stretch. Below is an exract from Ross Farnham's website:
http://www.sdsefi.com/air7.html
Many lay people often point out that automotive engines are not designed for
continuous high output applications and will blow up when installed in an
aircraft. This view is a result of complete ignorance in my opinion and is
not supported by any credible facts. Modern automotive engines make use of
the latest advances in computer design and modeling to optimize the design
of everything from port flow, port resonance tuning, combustion chamber
characteristics, vibrational node analysis and mechanical stresses.
Machining and metallurgy technology is far superior to the old days when the
air cooled, flat engines were developed. Technology has indeed progressed on
automotive engines in the last 40 years.
Automotive engines are routinely tested during development at full power and
maximum rpm for periods of up to 1200 hours on a dynomometer. These engines
must be able to withstand whatever stresses a customer might inflict on them
such as flat out cruising on the autobahn or endurance racing, without
failure. Manufacturer's limits are conservative to guarantee longevity and
reliability. The engineering and capital investment that goes into a new
engine release dwarfs any similar development by any piston aircraft engine
manufacturer. The testing and validation methods FAR exceed those required
on piston aircraft engines. In Europe, cars are routinely cruised at speeds
(RPMs and load) 50-100% higher than what we see in North America with no ill
effects in life span. This is real world, long term hard use.
Just one example of the demonstrated real world reliability on the popular
Subaru EJ22 engine was the 1989 record set by 3 Legacy's at an Arizona test
track. These cars were run flat out for 17 days straight without failure at
an average speed of over 138 mph. Similar records have been set by Saab and
Chevrolet. How many people reading this article think that most aircraft
engines would survive at 100% takeoff power for 400 hours? Subaru now offers
the production 2.5L turbo STI rated at 300 hp, With the popularity of
showroom stock endurance racing in the last decade, we get to see just how
good the design and engineering is on modern cars. Thousands of Hondas,
Toyotas, Oldsmobiles, Chevrolets, Mitsubishis, VWs etc. are mercilessly
flogged to the rev limiter at full throttle for hundreds of hours between
rebuilds. A very small fraction of these ever suffer a serious failure.
Aircraft use does not put this kind of cyclic stress on an engine, being a
constant load, relatively low rpm situation. Most modern car engines outlast
the chassis without ever being removed. This performance can be equated into
lifespans of between 4000 and 8000 hours. Even operating at 75% of maximum
power and rpm limits, it is reasonable to expect a TBO of at least 1000
hours in aircraft use.
Cheers
Les
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Hudes <phudes(at)ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sunday, January 6, 2008 12:21 pm
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Kitplane's article, Ly-Con's case closed.
>
> Les,
>
> On Jan 6, 2008, at 10:16 AM, LES KEARNEY wrote:
>
> > Hi Kelly
> >
> >
> >
> > Compare the production runs of auto engines to a/c engines.
> Auto
> > engine production runs can run into the hundreds of thousands
> in a
> > single year. Think of the QA/QC and engineering effort that
> goes
> > into these engines, the quality of the parts and the
> tolerances of
> > the manufacturing process. Hands down, I am of the opinion
> that
> > these engines will have a higher inherent reliability
> than
> > traditional engines. Keep in mind that my engine will be a
> factory
> > new engine (in fact I helped un-crate it on Thursday at
> the
> > Eggenfellenr shop). It is not a reman, it is not rebuilt, and
> it is
> > not modified
>
>
> Auto engines have been designed and tested to be operated in
> a
> different environment than aircraft engines. They are operated
> a
> majority of their life at a low percentage of power at low RPMs,
> not
> at a high percentage of power at high RPMs.
>
> > There are new risks I need to manage but these are reasonable.
> Will
> > this engine be more or less risky than a traditional engine -
> I
> > can't say. But I will mitigate the risk reviewing each
> system,
> > identifying risks and doing what I can to mitigate each risk.
>
> How are you going to evaluate and mitigate the risks associated
> with
> the PRU and prop combo?
> >
>
> Pete Hudes
>
> RV10-List Email Forum -
> _-
> = - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> _-
> = - List Contribution Web Site -
> _-
> = -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass class in Watsonville with RV10 focus |
I attended the class last year... worth every penny. What you learn
about how much meat you take off the top will save you a couple of
weeks of walking around alone. The best tip I've got is to have
lunch at the little Mexican joint on Airport Blvd.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
On Jan 8, 2008, at 6:10 AM, MauleDriver wrote:
>
> Well, I just signed up for the 2 day class. I just starting
> looking at putting the top on and queried Dave Saylor about the
> class and found out one is scheduled for the end of the month.
> Given all the belly aching about the fiberglass work, I was getting
> a bit of indigestion. What better cure than some training!
>
> Have any of you attended this? Any tips?
>
> Bill "doing misc fuse work and getting ready for fiberglass" Watson
> 40605
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass class in Watsonville with RV10 focus |
| From: | pilotdds(at)aol.com |
Great mexican food and competitive fuel prices.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Sent: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 9:23 am
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fiberglass class in Watsonville with RV10 focus
?
I attended the class last year... worth every penny. What you learn about how much
meat you take off the top will save you a couple of weeks of walking around
alone. The best tip I've got is to have lunch at the little Mexican joint on
Airport Blvd.?
?
Jeff Carpenter?
40304?
?
On Jan 8, 2008, at 6:10 AM, MauleDriver wrote:?
?
>?
> Well, I just signed up for the 2 day class. I just starting > looking at putting
the top on and queried Dave Saylor about the > class and found out one is
scheduled for the end of the month. > Given all the belly aching about the fiberglass
work, I was getting > a bit of indigestion. What better cure than some
training!?
>?
> Have any of you attended this? Any tips??
>?
> Bill "doing misc fuse work and getting ready for fiberglass" Watson?
> 40605?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
?
?
?
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fiberglass class in Watsonville with RV10 focus |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> |
Good Bill, you go and attend the class, then I can hire you as a
consultant when I'm at that stage on mine.
Jack Phillips
#40610
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 9:11 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Fiberglass class in Watsonville with RV10 focus
Well, I just signed up for the 2 day class. I just starting looking at
putting the top on and queried Dave Saylor about the class and found
out one is scheduled for the end of the month. Given all the belly
aching about the fiberglass work, I was getting a bit of indigestion.
What better cure than some training!
Have any of you attended this? Any tips?
Bill "doing misc fuse work and getting ready for fiberglass" Watson
40605
_________________________________________________
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify
the sender
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk
- Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Kitplane's article, Ly-Con's case closed. |
| From: | John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com> |
Someone pointed out to me that people might have mistaken my use of Ly-Con.
I meant the Lycoming / Continental engine makers and not the rebuilders.
Sorry if I didn't use this correctly.
John
_____
From: John Jessen [mailto:N212PJ(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 10:00 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Kitplane's article, Ly-Con's case closed.
Oh, gawd help me, but I cannot stop myself. Here goes.
I wrote awhile back that I'm going to stick to Ly-Con because I didn't know
enough to know what questions to ask. Now, I know that was a somewhat
stupid statement, especially because I could find out, given my research
background, but the point was, and this verbiage below confirms it, I have
no clue when enough testing is enough, or enough failures are too many. I
am not an aeronautical or mechanical or anything engineer. The one thing I
cannot abide are statements that say almost nothing, but sound like they
have expertise. "A very small fraction of these ever suffer a serious
failure." Ok then, what's the fraction and how does that compare to the
current crop of Ly-Con's. What's a serious failure? What were the
outcomes? Did the car quit running? Did the people slam into a concrete
wall at 100 mph, because that's what an aviator would essentially do, and
whomever else was onboard, and that's why the family scenario keeps coming
up.
Putting an "experimental" engine into a four place aircraft is fine. As I
said before I'm all for moving the bar forward. I don't know what
engineering good or bad has gone into the certified Ly-Cons. I do know that
the expensive certification process has kept them from easily making these
engines more "advanced." The final testing that goes into the auto
conversions, however, is left to those who are flying them. It was the same
way when the Ly-Cons were first being put out. If the auto conversion folks
put their designs through thousands of hours of testing in conditions that
simulate what a real plane goes through, then fine. Show the data. Show the
process. If they are doing so and I'm naive in what I'm saying, fine,
correct me. But so far, the only statements I've seen are the obfuscating
statements (crap, really) that I typically put into a report when I don't
know the answer.
Why is one PSRU better than another? Why did Jan declare that everyone must
change to the new one? Stronger? How? Is the prop/PSRU combination the
issue? Was there a harmonic issuer? Was the metallurgy on the gears
better? Were the gears cracking? When you check your PSRU oil, will it
tell you that there's a hairline crack in a gear? How will the engine hold
up if you get a coolant leak? Will it stop working or get you to a safe
landing? How will you know you have a coolant leak while in flight? I am
sure that all those who are becoming Subaru test pilots for free will have
asked these and thousands of other questions and gotten very good answers.
I haven't ever seen anyone come back with a list of these questions and the
answers and posted them, but since I'm not following the postings on these
lists, maybe they have. Hope so. Now, this is not to say that every and
all Ly-Con's shouldn't be taken to task with the thousands of questions that
an auto conversion should be, with each question answered by test results.
We should all be wanting to know what's the deal. Why do Ly-Con's develop
hairline cracks in their jugs after 500 hours? Etc. We have a very large
number of very good engine build specialists out there with good knowledge
and experience and the willingness to share information (and Ly-Con will
share some test results).
I want Les to succeed. I want Jan, even though I have reservations about
the person, to succeed. I want the folks from South Africa to build the
best darn engine that has come along in a long long time. Just don't rely
on non-critical statements. If you deal with a person who won't back up
their claims with facts and thorough testing, walk away, which is what I did
with Jan. And don't subject anyone else to your test bed. And, one more
thing, make sure that when it fails, and it will, they all will, that the
manufacturer is the type that will come, take the engine back, go over it
with a fine toothed gizmo, do root cause analysis until the cows come home,
and help the NTSB determine if the fault was the engine and why, and not
just walk away and say it wasn't their fault. You've taken it upon yourself
to be their test bed, they might as well admit to that and be part of it
contractually. I know they won't, but to me, that is the reality of it and
that's why I'll go the route that seems to be working. Ly-Con's with
annuals. Annuals because I know the environment and how they are run are
going to cause problems, eventually, sometimes sooner than later, and that's
why we do annuals, not because the technology is so old or bad that we
shouldn't have to need them. We do them because when our engine quits, we
cannot pull off to the side of the road, we get to do what race car drivers
do, we get to plow into the barrier at speeds that do not usually guarantee
happy outcomes in a vehicle built out of aluminum, sans safety cage.
Les, I met you once in Oregon and have followed your comments on this list
and I've always been impressed with your care and thoroughness and
intelligence. Please help us all out as you go through this journey and
document as much as possible, especially in terms of the questions that you
have asked and the answers given. That baby is going to run smooth as silk
when you first fire it up, I'm sure. But I'd be doing an annual's worth on
it every 50 hours for the forseeable future, until you and the fleet of
similar installations are sure you have a winner. Good luck!
John Jessen
40328.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LES KEARNEY
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Kitplane's article, Ly-Con's case closed.
Peter
As I mntioned in my post to Kelly, I am not an engine expert / guru /
authority by any stretch. Below is an exract from Ross Farnham's website:
http://www.sdsefi.com/air7.html
Many lay people often point out that automotive engines are not designed for
continuous high output applications and will blow up when installed in an
aircraft. This view is a result of complete ignorance in my opinion and is
not supported by any credible facts. Modern automotive engines make use of
the latest advances in computer design and modeling to optimize the design
of everything from port flow, port resonance tuning, combustion chamber
characteristics, vibrational node analysis and mechanical stresses.
Machining and metallurgy technology is far superior to the old days when the
air cooled, flat engines were developed. Technology has indeed progressed on
automotive engines in the last 40 years.
Automotive engines are routinely tested during development at full power and
maximum rpm for periods of up to 1200 hours on a dynomometer. These engines
must be able to withstand whatever stresses a customer might inflict on them
such as flat out cruising on the autobahn or endurance racing, without
failure. Manufacturer's limits are conservative to guarantee longevity and
reliability. The engineering and capital investment that goes into a new
engine release dwarfs any similar development by any piston aircraft engine
manufacturer. The testing and validation methods FAR exceed those required
on piston aircraft engines. In Europe, cars are routinely cruised at speeds
(RPMs and load) 50-100% higher than what we see in North America with no ill
effects in life span. This is real world, long term hard use.
Just one example of the demonstrated real world reliability on the popular
Subaru EJ22 engine was the 1989 record set by 3 Legacy's at an Arizona test
track. These cars were run flat out for 17 days straight without failure at
an average speed of over 138 mph. Similar records have been set by Saab and
Chevrolet. How many people reading this article think that most aircraft
engines would survive at 100% takeoff power for 400 hours? Subaru now offers
the production 2.5L turbo STI rated at 300 hp, With the popularity of
showroom stock endurance racing in the last decade, we get to see just how
good the design and engineering is on modern cars. Thousands of Hondas,
Toyotas, Oldsmobiles, Chevrolets, Mitsubishis, VWs etc. are mercilessly
flogged to the rev limiter at full throttle for hundreds of hours between
rebuilds. A very small fraction of these ever suffer a serious failure.
Aircraft use does not put this kind of cyclic stress on an engine, being a
constant load, relatively low rpm situation. Most modern car engines outlast
the chassis without ever being removed. This performance can be equated into
lifespans of between 4000 and 8000 hours. Even operating at 75% of maximum
power and rpm limits, it is reasonable to expect a TBO of at least 1000
hours in aircraft use.
Cheers
Les
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Hudes <phudes(at)ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sunday, January 6, 2008 12:21 pm
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Kitplane's article, Ly-Con's case closed.
>
> Les,
>
> On Jan 6, 2008, at 10:16 AM, LES KEARNEY wrote:
>
> > Hi Kelly
> >
> >
> >
> > Compare the production runs of auto engines to a/c engines.
> Auto
> > engine production runs can run into the hundreds of thousands
> in a
> > single year. Think of the QA/QC and engineering effort that
> goes
> > into these engines, the quality of the parts and the
> tolerances of
> > the manufacturing process. Hands down, I am of the opinion
> that
> > these engines will have a higher inherent reliability
> than
> > traditional engines. Keep in mind that my engine will be a
> factory
> > new engine (in fact I helped un-crate it on Thursday at
> the
> > Eggenfellenr shop). It is not a reman, it is not rebuilt, and
> it is
> > not modified
>
>
> Auto engines have been designed and tested to be operated in
> a
> different environment than aircraft engines. They are operated
> a
> majority of their life at a low percentage of power at low RPMs,
> not
> at a high percentage of power at high RPMs.
>
> > There are new risks I need to manage but these are reasonable.
> Will
> > this engine be more or less risky than a traditional engine -
> I
> > can't say. But I will mitigate the risk reviewing each
> system,
> > identifying risks and doing what I can to mitigate each risk.
>
> How are you going to evaluate and mitigate the risks associated
> with
> the PRU and prop combo?
> >
>
> Pete Hudes
>
> RV10-List Email Forum -
> _-
> = - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> _-
> = - List Contribution Web Site -
> _-
> = -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitplane's article, Ly-Con's case closed. |
John,
That was one of the most well written statements I've read
in a long time on that subject.
Keep in mind that statistics give meaning when you can
determine probabilities, and overall quantities are an
important part of that. With 100 flying Lycomings, if we
had 2 fail, we'd have 2% failure rate, right? But, consider
that the Subaru or other conversions are currently less
than 1% of the installed base of Lycomings (in RV-10's).
That means that, down the road a while as an example,
you may know 10 people who have Lycoming failures, and
perhaps 2 who have had alternative engine failures, you
really need to look at the data pool that the numbers come
from then. If we have 1000 lycomings, and 10 fail, that's 1%.
If we have 1/100th the number of Alternatives, (i.e. 10)
and we have 2 fail, then the failure rate is 20%. But, to
the public, they'll hear lots more bitching on the newsgroup
from the Lycoming crowd....simply because that's where the
larger NUMBER of failures is. From the looks of it,
even once the alternatives get flying in more quantities,
they're going to be less than 5 or 10% of the total RV-10
fleet. So, the failure rates have the possibility to
be many times larger for every failure.
Also, it's just plain not right to consider the statistical
failure rate of AUTO engines in AUTOS as the basis for
what the failure rate will be in aircraft. You absolutely
need to be operating the engines in the airframe to
get anything meaningful to go on.
That means that today, we have very very little statistical
data on the alternatives, and even in number of hours flown,
there are many many times less hours being put on them.
So, a single failure or two is very significant. One of
the large concerns I have is also that those with the
alternatives will tend to be tight-lipped about their
failures...which is understandable, but it just means that
nobody can determine the actual reliability.
Related to the question about PRSU reliability, and why
the new one is being *required*..... If they had only 2 or
3 failures, think about what that means as a portion of the
total. And then think about what that would mean if you
scaled that percentage up to the same overall quantities
as the number of lycomings flying. 2 or 3 PRSU failures
could mean 2000, or even 10,000 failures in Lycoming
quantities. Over time, there will be a trend, but until
the same unit gets lots of time on it, we'll never know.
That's the other sad thing about the alternatives. For
instance, the Subie being sold in 2008 is NOT the same as
the ones sold in 2007. So, how are people to determine
the long term reliability?
Still, it's a builders prerogative to choose their engine,
and I'm glad we have the option. The real hope is that
the alternatives can build on a design that they find
to work well, and put lots of operational time on it so
that some day it can become a larger and larger share of
the overall market. Given some high reliabilities, I
would think that many engines could be great choices, but
for today, that choice is for those who are willing to
accept a much greater share of uncertainty.
I'm also uncertain if my engine, or my engine operational
styles are going to cause me any grief down the road, but
at least there's a pretty good pool of operational data
that we can look at to give a general feel of the outlook.
Tim
John Jessen wrote:
> Oh, gawd help me, but I cannot stop myself. Here goes.
>
> I wrote awhile back that I'm going to stick to Ly-Con because I didn't
> know enough to know what questions to ask. Now, I know that was a
> somewhat stupid statement, especially because I could find out, given my
> research background, but the point was, and this verbiage below confirms
> it, I have no clue when enough testing is enough, or enough failures are
> too many. I am not an aeronautical or mechanical or anything engineer.
> The one thing I cannot abide are statements that say almost nothing, but
> sound like they have expertise. "/A very small fraction of these ever
> suffer a serious failure." /Ok then, what's the fraction and how does
> that compare to the current crop of Ly-Con's. What's a serious
> failure? What were the outcomes? Did the car quit running? Did the
> people slam into a concrete wall at 100 mph, because that's what an
> aviator would essentially do, and whomever else was onboard, and that's
> why the family scenario keeps coming up.
>
> Putting an "experimental" engine into a four place aircraft is fine. As
> I said before I'm all for moving the bar forward. I don't know what
> engineering good or bad has gone into the certified Ly-Cons. I do know
> that the expensive certification process has kept them from easily
> making these engines more "advanced." The final testing that goes into
> the auto conversions, however, is left to those who are flying them. It
> was the same way when the Ly-Cons were first being put out. If the auto
> conversion folks put their designs through thousands of hours of testing
> in conditions that simulate what a real plane goes through, then fine.
> Show the data. Show the process. If they are doing so and I'm naive in
> what I'm saying, fine, correct me. But so far, the only statements I've
> seen are the obfuscating statements (crap, really) that I typically put
> into a report when I don't know the answer.
>
> Why is one PSRU better than another? Why did Jan declare that everyone
> must change to the new one? Stronger? How? Is the prop/PSRU
> combination the issue? Was there a harmonic issuer? Was the metallurgy
> on the gears better? Were the gears cracking? When you check your PSRU
> oil, will it tell you that there's a hairline crack in a gear? How will
> the engine hold up if you get a coolant leak? Will it stop working or
> get you to a safe landing? How will you know you have a coolant leak
> while in flight? I am sure that all those who are becoming Subaru test
> pilots for free will have asked these and thousands of other questions
> and gotten very good answers. I haven't ever seen anyone come back with
> a list of these questions and the answers and posted them, but since I'm
> not following the postings on these lists, maybe they have. Hope so.
> Now, this is not to say that every and all Ly-Con's shouldn't be taken
> to task with the thousands of questions that an auto conversion should
> be, with each question answered by test results. We should all be
> wanting to know what's the deal. Why do Ly-Con's develop hairline
> cracks in their jugs after 500 hours? Etc. We have a very large number
> of very good engine build specialists out there with good knowledge and
> experience and the willingness to share information (and Ly-Con will
> share some test results).
>
> I want Les to succeed. I want Jan, even though I have reservations
> about the person, to succeed. I want the folks from South Africa to
> build the best darn engine that has come along in a long long time.
> Just don't rely on non-critical statements. If you deal with a person
> who won't back up their claims with facts and thorough testing, walk
> away, which is what I did with Jan. And don't subject anyone else to
> your test bed. And, one more thing, make sure that when it fails, and
> it will, they all will, that the manufacturer is the type that will
> come, take the engine back, go over it with a fine toothed gizmo, do
> root cause analysis until the cows come home, and help the NTSB
> determine if the fault was the engine and why, and not just walk away
> and say it wasn't their fault. You've taken it upon yourself to be
> their test bed, they might as well admit to that and be part of it
> contractually. I know they won't, but to me, that is the reality of it
> and that's why I'll go the route that seems to be working. Ly-Con's
> with annuals. Annuals because I know the environment and how they are
> run are going to cause problems, eventually, sometimes sooner than
> later, and that's why we do annuals, not because the technology is so
> old or bad that we shouldn't have to need them. We do them because when
> our engine quits, we cannot pull off to the side of the road, we get to
> do what race car drivers do, we get to plow into the barrier at speeds
> that do not usually guarantee happy outcomes in a vehicle built out of
> aluminum, sans safety cage.
>
> Les, I met you once in Oregon and have followed your comments on this
> list and I've always been impressed with your care and thoroughness and
> intelligence. Please help us all out as you go through this journey and
> document as much as possible, especially in terms of the questions that
> you have asked and the answers given. That baby is going to run smooth
> as silk when you first fire it up, I'm sure. But I'd be doing an
> annual's worth on it every 50 hours for the forseeable future, until you
> and the fleet of similar installations are sure you have a winner. Good
> luck!
>
> John Jessen
> 40328.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *LES KEARNEY
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 06, 2008 11:42 AM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Kitplane's article, Ly-Con's case closed.
>
> Peter
>
> As I mntioned in my post to Kelly, I am not an engine expert / guru /
> authority by any stretch. Below is an exract from Ross Farnham's
> website: http://www.sdsefi.com/air7.html
> //
> /Many lay people often point out that automotive engines are not
> designed for continuous high output applications and will blow up when
> installed in an aircraft. This view is a result of complete ignorance in
> my opinion and is not supported by any credible facts. Modern automotive
> engines make use of the latest advances in computer design and modeling
> to optimize the design of everything from port flow, port resonance
> tuning, combustion chamber characteristics, vibrational node analysis
> and mechanical stresses. Machining and metallurgy technology is far
> superior to the old days when the air cooled, flat engines were
> developed. Technology has indeed progressed on automotive engines in the
> last 40 years./
>
> /Automotive engines are routinely tested during development at full
> power and maximum rpm for periods of up to 1200 hours on a dynomometer.
> These engines must be able to withstand whatever stresses a customer
> might inflict on them such as flat out cruising on the autobahn or
> endurance racing, without failure. Manufacturer's limits are
> conservative to guarantee longevity and reliability. The engineering and
> capital investment that goes into a new engine release dwarfs any
> similar development by any piston aircraft engine manufacturer. The
> testing and validation methods FAR exceed those required on piston
> aircraft engines. In Europe, cars are routinely cruised at speeds (RPMs
> and load) 50-100% higher than what we see in North America with no ill
> effects in life span. This is real world, long term hard use./
>
> /Just one example of the demonstrated real world reliability on the
> popular Subaru EJ22 engine was the 1989 record set by 3 Legacy's at an
> Arizona test track. These cars were run flat out for 17 days straight
> without failure at an average speed of over 138 mph. Similar records
> have been set by Saab and Chevrolet. How many people reading this
> article think that most aircraft engines would survive at 100% takeoff
> power for 400 hours? Subaru now offers the production 2.5L turbo STI
> rated at 300 hp, With the popularity of showroom stock endurance racing
> in the last decade, we get to see just how good the design and
> engineering is on modern cars. Thousands of Hondas, Toyotas,
> Oldsmobiles, Chevrolets, Mitsubishis, VWs etc. are mercilessly flogged
> to the rev limiter at full throttle for hundreds of hours between
> rebuilds. A very small fraction of these ever suffer a serious failure.
> Aircraft use does not put this kind of cyclic stress on an engine, being
> a constant load, relatively low rpm situation. Most modern car engines
> outlast the chassis without ever being removed. This performance can be
> equated into lifespans of between 4000 and 8000 hours. Even operating at
> 75% of maximum power and rpm limits, it is reasonable to expect a TBO of
> at least 1000 hours in aircraft use./
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Peter Hudes <phudes(at)ix.netcom.com>
> Date: Sunday, January 6, 2008 12:21 pm
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Kitplane's article, Ly-Con's case closed.
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>
> >
> > Les,
> >
> > On Jan 6, 2008, at 10:16 AM, LES KEARNEY wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Kelly
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Compare the production runs of auto engines to a/c engines.
> > Auto
> > > engine production runs can run into the hundreds of thousands
> > in a
> > > single year. Think of the QA/QC and engineering effort that
> > goes
> > > into these engines, the quality of the parts and the
> > tolerances of
> > > the manufacturing process. Hands down, I am of the opinion
> > that
> > > these engines will have a higher inherent reliability
> > than
> > > traditional engines. Keep in mind that my engine will be a
> > factory
> > > new engine (in fact I helped un-crate it on Thursday at
> > the
> > > Eggenfellenr shop). It is not a reman, it is not rebuilt, and
> > it is
> > > not modified
> >
> >
> > Auto engines have been designed and tested to be operated in
> > a
> > different environment than aircraft engines. They are operated
> > a
> > majority of their life at a low percentage of power at low RPMs,
> > not
> > at a high percentage of power at high RPMs.
> >
> > > There are new risks I need to manage but these are reasonable.
> > Will
> > > this engine be more or less risky than a traditional engine
> > I
> > > cant say. But I will mitigate the risk reviewing each
> > system,
> > > identifying risks and doing what I can to mitigate each risk.
> >
> > How are you going to evaluate and mitigate the risks associated
> > with
> > the PRU and prop combo?
> > >
> >
> > Pete Hudes
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com> |
| Subject: | Fiberglass class in Watsonville with RV10 focus |
I haven't attended before, but will be attending this one. I'm happy to hear
some other list members are going. I'm looking forward to putting some more
faces to the names.
I've done quite a bit of glass work on boats, but all the trimming and
finishing for an aircraft has been giving me a bit of pause. Especially
with all the good things I hear about it. I'll be fitting the top in a month
or two so the class timing was about perfect for me.
Best Regards,
Patrick #40715 / N690CT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 6:11 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Fiberglass class in Watsonville with RV10 focus
Well, I just signed up for the 2 day class. I just starting looking at
putting the top on and queried Dave Saylor about the class and found
out one is scheduled for the end of the month. Given all the belly
aching about the fiberglass work, I was getting a bit of indigestion.
What better cure than some training!
Have any of you attended this? Any tips?
Bill "doing misc fuse work and getting ready for fiberglass" Watson
40605
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com> |
| Subject: | Fiberglass class in Watsonville with RV10 focus |
I'm attending as well and look forward to meeting all of you.
I do have to say the best tip I've gotten though would be to farm out the
fiberglass!!!
Sure wish I wasn't flying in on Southwest Airlines for this one too.
-Ben Westfall
#40579 PDX
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 6:11 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Fiberglass class in Watsonville with RV10 focus
Well, I just signed up for the 2 day class. I just starting looking at
putting the top on and queried Dave Saylor about the class and found
out one is scheduled for the end of the month. Given all the belly
aching about the fiberglass work, I was getting a bit of indigestion.
What better cure than some training!
Have any of you attended this? Any tips?
Bill "doing misc fuse work and getting ready for fiberglass" Watson
40605
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass class in Watsonville with RV10 focus |
That's what I like to hear. I just put the top on for the first time
and did a lot of walking around. A little experienced help and
guidance will go a long way. I've played with fiberglass a bit over the
years but only as a hacker. Adding a little technique and craft will be
nice.
...this Mexican food thing is worrying me a bit though
Bill
Jeff Carpenter wrote:
>
> I attended the class last year... worth every penny. What you learn
> about how much meat you take off the top will save you a couple of
> weeks of walking around alone. The best tip I've got is to have lunch
> at the little Mexican joint on Airport Blvd.
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
>
>
> On Jan 8, 2008, at 6:10 AM, MauleDriver wrote:
>
>>
>> Well, I just signed up for the 2 day class. I just starting looking
>> at putting the top on and queried Dave Saylor about the class and
>> found out one is scheduled for the end of the month. Given all the
>> belly aching about the fiberglass work, I was getting a bit of
>> indigestion. What better cure than some training!
>>
>> Have any of you attended this? Any tips?
>>
>> Bill "doing misc fuse work and getting ready for fiberglass" Watson
>> 40605
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitplane's article, Ly-Con's case closed. |
John,
That was a well-thought post.
Keep in mind that statistics give meaning when you can
determine probabilities, and overall quantities are an
important part of that. With 100 flying Lycomings, if we
had 2 fail, we'd have 2% failure rate, right? But, consider
that the Subaru or other conversions are currently less
than 1% of the installed base of Lycomings (in RV-10's).
That means that, down the road a while as an example,
you may know 10 people who have Lycoming failures, and
perhaps 2 who have had alternative engine failures, you
really need to look at the data pool that the numbers come
from then. If we have 1000 lycomings, and 10 fail, that's 1%.
If we have 1/100th the number of Alternatives, (i.e. 10)
and we have 2 fail, then the failure rate is 20%. But, to
the public, they'll hear lots more bitching on the newsgroup
from the Lycoming crowd....simply because that's where the
larger NUMBER of failures is. From the looks of it,
even once the alternatives get flying in more quantities,
they're going to be less than 5 or 10% of the total RV-10
fleet. So, the failure rates have the possibility to
be many times larger for every failure.
Also, it's just plain not right to consider the statistical
failure rate of AUTO engines in AUTOS as the basis for
what the failure rate will be in aircraft. You absolutely
need to be operating the engines in the airframe to
get anything meaningful to go on.
That means that today, we have very very little statistical
data on the alternatives, and even in number of hours flown,
there are many many times less hours being put on them.
So, a single failure or two is very significant. One of
the large concerns I have is also that those with the
alternatives will tend to be tight-lipped about their
failures...which is understandable, but it just means that
nobody can determine the actual reliability.
Related to the question about PRSU reliability, and why
the new one is being *required*..... If they had only 2 or
3 failures, think about what that means as a portion of the
total. And then think about what that would mean if you
scaled that percentage up to the same overall quantities
as the number of lycomings flying. 2 or 3 PRSU failures
could mean 2000, or even 10,000 failures in Lycoming
quantities. Over time, there will be a trend, but until
the same unit gets lots of time on it, we'll never know.
That's the other sad thing about the alternatives. For
instance, the Subie being sold in 2008 is NOT the same as
the ones sold in 2007. So, how are people to determine
the long term reliability?
Still, it's a builders prerogative to choose their engine,
and I'm glad we have the option. The real hope is that
the alternatives can build on a design that they find
to work well, and put lots of operational time on it so
that some day it can become a larger and larger share of
the overall market. Given some high reliabilities, I
would think that many engines could be great choices, but
for today, that choice is for those who are willing to
accept a much greater share of uncertainty.
I'm also uncertain if my engine, or my engine operational
styles are going to cause me any grief down the road, but
at least there's a pretty good pool of operational data
that we can look at to give a general feel of the outlook.
Tim
John Jessen wrote:
> Oh, gawd help me, but I cannot stop myself. Here goes.
>
> I wrote awhile back that I'm going to stick to Ly-Con because I didn't
> know enough to know what questions to ask. Now, I know that was a
> somewhat stupid statement, especially because I could find out, given my
> research background, but the point was, and this verbiage below confirms
> it, I have no clue when enough testing is enough, or enough failures are
> too many. I am not an aeronautical or mechanical or anything engineer.
> The one thing I cannot abide are statements that say almost nothing, but
> sound like they have expertise. "/A very small fraction of these ever
> suffer a serious failure." /Ok then, what's the fraction and how does
> that compare to the current crop of Ly-Con's. What's a serious
> failure? What were the outcomes? Did the car quit running? Did the
> people slam into a concrete wall at 100 mph, because that's what an
> aviator would essentially do, and whomever else was onboard, and that's
> why the family scenario keeps coming up.
>
> Putting an "experimental" engine into a four place aircraft is fine. As
> I said before I'm all for moving the bar forward. I don't know what
> engineering good or bad has gone into the certified Ly-Cons. I do know
> that the expensive certification process has kept them from easily
> making these engines more "advanced." The final testing that goes into
> the auto conversions, however, is left to those who are flying them. It
> was the same way when the Ly-Cons were first being put out. If the auto
> conversion folks put their designs through thousands of hours of testing
> in conditions that simulate what a real plane goes through, then fine.
> Show the data. Show the process. If they are doing so and I'm naive in
> what I'm saying, fine, correct me. But so far, the only statements I've
> seen are the obfuscating statements (crap, really) that I typically put
> into a report when I don't know the answer.
>
> Why is one PSRU better than another? Why did Jan declare that everyone
> must change to the new one? Stronger? How? Is the prop/PSRU
> combination the issue? Was there a harmonic issuer? Was the metallurgy
> on the gears better? Were the gears cracking? When you check your PSRU
> oil, will it tell you that there's a hairline crack in a gear? How will
> the engine hold up if you get a coolant leak? Will it stop working or
> get you to a safe landing? How will you know you have a coolant leak
> while in flight? I am sure that all those who are becoming Subaru test
> pilots for free will have asked these and thousands of other questions
> and gotten very good answers. I haven't ever seen anyone come back with
> a list of these questions and the answers and posted them, but since I'm
> not following the postings on these lists, maybe they have. Hope so.
> Now, this is not to say that every and all Ly-Con's shouldn't be taken
> to task with the thousands of questions that an auto conversion should
> be, with each question answered by test results. We should all be
> wanting to know what's the deal. Why do Ly-Con's develop hairline
> cracks in their jugs after 500 hours? Etc. We have a very large number
> of very good engine build specialists out there with good knowledge and
> experience and the willingness to share information (and Ly-Con will
> share some test results).
>
> I want Les to succeed. I want Jan, even though I have reservations
> about the person, to succeed. I want the folks from South Africa to
> build the best darn engine that has come along in a long long time.
> Just don't rely on non-critical statements. If you deal with a person
> who won't back up their claims with facts and thorough testing, walk
> away, which is what I did with Jan. And don't subject anyone else to
> your test bed. And, one more thing, make sure that when it fails, and
> it will, they all will, that the manufacturer is the type that will
> come, take the engine back, go over it with a fine toothed gizmo, do
> root cause analysis until the cows come home, and help the NTSB
> determine if the fault was the engine and why, and not just walk away
> and say it wasn't their fault. You've taken it upon yourself to be
> their test bed, they might as well admit to that and be part of it
> contractually. I know they won't, but to me, that is the reality of it
> and that's why I'll go the route that seems to be working. Ly-Con's
> with annuals. Annuals because I know the environment and how they are
> run are going to cause problems, eventually, sometimes sooner than
> later, and that's why we do annuals, not because the technology is so
> old or bad that we shouldn't have to need them. We do them because when
> our engine quits, we cannot pull off to the side of the road, we get to
> do what race car drivers do, we get to plow into the barrier at speeds
> that do not usually guarantee happy outcomes in a vehicle built out of
> aluminum, sans safety cage.
>
> Les, I met you once in Oregon and have followed your comments on this
> list and I've always been impressed with your care and thoroughness and
> intelligence. Please help us all out as you go through this journey and
> document as much as possible, especially in terms of the questions that
> you have asked and the answers given. That baby is going to run smooth
> as silk when you first fire it up, I'm sure. But I'd be doing an
> annual's worth on it every 50 hours for the forseeable future, until you
> and the fleet of similar installations are sure you have a winner. Good
> luck!
>
> John Jessen
> 40328.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass class in Watsonville with RV10 focus |
| From: | "jim berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net> |
I attended last year's class with Jeff and will second his comments. I had just
spent 2 weeks gradually trimming my cabin top to fit before leaving for Dave's
workshop. They showed us how to do the job in 2-3 hours, plus lots of other
good stuff. Well worth your time and money.
Jim Berry
40482
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156855#156855
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | let's not let this happen to us |
On the SoCal VAF I saw this and wanted to bring it to this group as we
have many critical players that I would hate to see happen to this
group.
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/2008/01/darned-shame.html
Pascal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: let's not let this happen to us |
Pascal,
Don't underestimate the respectability of everyone here on all
sides of any discussion. There is very little here that
happens that drives people into anger. Yeah, everyone has some
disappointment when others don't seem to "get it",and that goes
for both sides of any argument, but at the same time, we make
room for those differences as we're all a part of the same
family in general....the RV-10 kit family. I think that's what
makes this list work so well is that we celebrate that single
big similarity more. Engines, primers, EFIS's, and all the other
things are just components in the big scheme of things, but it's
the fact that they'll be flying the same kit model that gives
a union of similarity. There are many hot button topics, but
none that really get me riled up too much. I have done things
the way that I did, using all the learned info to make my
own conclusions. Everyone else really should do the same.
Ingest, digest, and then produce your own outcome. The key
is soaking in all the info you can. If we avoid talking about
the hot button topics, we don't do anyone any favors. And
if both camps of any topic don't participate, then the
discussion goes nowhere, and people don't get the positives
and negatives or other thinking points. So it's all worth
while.
I'll leave you with this post I grabbed off the Lancair list
that I think was a repost from elsewhere. I found it really
humorous.
-Tim
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think I've been spending too much time reading email lists, because I
found this to be hysterical...
HOW MANY EMAIL LIST MEMBERS DOES IT TAKE TO CHANGE A LIGHT BULB?
1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been changed.
14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the
light bulb could have been changed differently.
7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs.
6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb" ...
Another 6 to condemn those 6 as stupid.
2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is "lamp".
15 know-it-alls who claim they were in the industry, and that "light
bulb" is perfectly correct.
19 to post that this forum is not about light bulbs and to please take
this discussion to a light bulb forum.
11 to defend the posting to this forum saying that we all use light
bulbs and therefore the posts are relevant to this forum.
36 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to
buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this
technique and what brands are faulty.
5 People to post pics of their own light bulbs.
7 to post URL's where one can see examples of different light bulbs.
4 to post that the URL's were posted incorrectly and then post the
corrected URL's.
13 to link all posts to date, quote them in their entirety including all
headers and signatures, and add "Me too".
5 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot
handle the light bulb controversy.
4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago?"
13 to say "do a search on light bulbs before posting questions about
light bulbs".
1 to bring politics into the discussion by adding that George W. isn't
the brightest bulb.
4 more to get into personal attacks over their political views.
1 moderator to lock the light bulb thread.
1 guy wondering when Can-Am is going to step up to the plate and make
lightbulbs as bright as the other manufactures.
3 guys wondering what the 2012 lightbulbs will be like.
1 forum lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now and
start it all over again.
Pascal wrote:
> On the SoCal VAF I saw this and wanted to bring it to this group as we
> have many critical players that I would hate to see happen to this group.
>
> http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/2008/01/darned-shame.html
> <http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/2008/01/darned-shame.html>
>
> Pascal
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: let's not let this happen to us |
Hilarious! (see #13)
David Maib
40559
On Jan 9, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
Pascal,
Don't underestimate the respectability of everyone here on all
sides of any discussion. There is very little here that
happens that drives people into anger. Yeah, everyone has some
disappointment when others don't seem to "get it",and that goes
for both sides of any argument, but at the same time, we make
room for those differences as we're all a part of the same
family in general....the RV-10 kit family. I think that's what
makes this list work so well is that we celebrate that single
big similarity more. Engines, primers, EFIS's, and all the other
things are just components in the big scheme of things, but it's
the fact that they'll be flying the same kit model that gives
a union of similarity. There are many hot button topics, but
none that really get me riled up too much. I have done things
the way that I did, using all the learned info to make my
own conclusions. Everyone else really should do the same.
Ingest, digest, and then produce your own outcome. The key
is soaking in all the info you can. If we avoid talking about
the hot button topics, we don't do anyone any favors. And
if both camps of any topic don't participate, then the
discussion goes nowhere, and people don't get the positives
and negatives or other thinking points. So it's all worth
while.
I'll leave you with this post I grabbed off the Lancair list
that I think was a repost from elsewhere. I found it really
humorous.
-Tim
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think I've been spending too much time reading email lists, because
I found this to be hysterical...
HOW MANY EMAIL LIST MEMBERS DOES IT TAKE TO CHANGE A LIGHT BULB?
1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been
changed.
14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the
light bulb could have been changed differently.
7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs.
6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb" ...
Another 6 to condemn those 6 as stupid.
2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is
"lamp".
15 know-it-alls who claim they were in the industry, and that "light
bulb" is perfectly correct.
19 to post that this forum is not about light bulbs and to please
take this discussion to a light bulb forum.
11 to defend the posting to this forum saying that we all use light
bulbs and therefore the posts are relevant to this forum.
36 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where
to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for
this technique and what brands are faulty.
5 People to post pics of their own light bulbs.
7 to post URL's where one can see examples of different light bulbs.
4 to post that the URL's were posted incorrectly and then post the
corrected URL's.
13 to link all posts to date, quote them in their entirety including
all headers and signatures, and add "Me too".
5 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they
cannot handle the light bulb controversy.
4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago?"
13 to say "do a search on light bulbs before posting questions about
light bulbs".
1 to bring politics into the discussion by adding that George W.
isn't the brightest bulb.
4 more to get into personal attacks over their political views.
1 moderator to lock the light bulb thread.
1 guy wondering when Can-Am is going to step up to the plate and make
lightbulbs as bright as the other manufactures.
3 guys wondering what the 2012 lightbulbs will be like.
1 forum lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now and
start it all over again.
Pascal wrote:
> On the SoCal VAF I saw this and wanted to bring it to this group as
> we have many critical players that I would hate to see happen to
> this group.
> http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/2008/01/darned-shame.html rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/2008/01/darned-shame.html>
> Pascal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com> |
Makes me proud...
>From a post on the Glastar list...
At my home airport (FYJ) the anti-terrorist fence ends about 50 feet each
side of the road leading in. We were issued codes to get through the $17,000
electric gate. Guests must go through the terminal building ($1.7m) to get
in. Terrorists evidently don't have the wits to walk around the end of the
fence so they are barred from evil deeds.
Before the fence, people interested in flying would often stop by and visit
or bring their kids to watch. No more.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | German Alvarez <german.alvarez(at)playalinda.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass class in Watsonville with RV10 focus |
Hi,
I will be attending the class in Watsonville. I live in San Jose and I
will be driving to Watsonville and back both days. If someone is
interested in car-pooling send me an e-mail.
--ga
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> |
Yeah, My old airport had something similar. Makes the uninformed feel more secure,
while inconveniencing the many. Kinda like waiting in line barefoot at the
large airports. The law of unintended consequences.
I had a non-pilot interloper comment that security like that (gates & fences) "should
be mandated at all small airports" -- I had to help him correct his "frame
of reference."
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those
who matter don't mind."
-- Dr. Suess
-------- Original Message --------
>
> Makes me proud...
>
> >From a post on the Glastar list...
>
> At my home airport (FYJ) the anti-terrorist fence ends about 50 feet each
> side of the road leading in. We were issued codes to get through the $17,000
> electric gate. Guests must go through the terminal building ($1.7m) to get
> in. Terrorists evidently don't have the wits to walk around the end of the
> fence so they are barred from evil deeds.
>
> Before the fence, people interested in flying would often stop by and visit
> or bring their kids to watch. No more.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BPA" <BPA(at)bpaengines.com> |
When I was a kid (LONG time ago)one of the major arterial streets in
Tulsa ended roughly 100 yds from the main runway at KTUL. One of the
great pleasures we had as youngsters was going to Brahms, getting an ice
cream and cruisin' to the airport with Dad on Saturday nights to watch
take offs and landings. Now we have locked gates, limited access, and
the big eye in the sky watching you if your within 1/4 mile of the
field. Damn shame
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 12:23 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Fences
Makes me proud...
>From a post on the Glastar list...
At my home airport (FYJ) the anti-terrorist fence ends about 50 feet
each
side of the road leading in. We were issued codes to get through the
$17,000
electric gate. Guests must go through the terminal building ($1.7m) to
get
in. Terrorists evidently don't have the wits to walk around the end of
the
fence so they are barred from evil deeds.
Before the fence, people interested in flying would often stop by and
visit
or bring their kids to watch. No more.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net> |
It is truly a shame at the impact the goofy rules are making on a great way
of life. At my last airport the 'strict' security policy included giving
all those with legal access a card that was nothing more than a business
card with your picture printed on it that my kids could have duplicated in
minutes.
William, thanks for taking the time to educate the non-pilot on how things
could be and used to be. I hope we can somehow encourage lookers and
wanna-be's back onto the airfield someday.
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 2:16 PM
Subject: re: RV10-List: Fences
Yeah, My old airport had something similar. Makes the uninformed feel more
secure, while inconveniencing the many. Kinda like waiting in line barefoot
at the large airports. The law of unintended consequences.
I had a non-pilot interloper comment that security like that (gates &
fences) "should be mandated at all small airports" -- I had to help him
correct his "frame of reference."
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter
and those who matter don't mind."
-- Dr. Suess
-------- Original Message --------
>
> Makes me proud...
>
> >From a post on the Glastar list...
>
> At my home airport (FYJ) the anti-terrorist fence ends about 50 feet each
> side of the road leading in. We were issued codes to get through the
$17,000
> electric gate. Guests must go through the terminal building ($1.7m) to get
> in. Terrorists evidently don't have the wits to walk around the end of the
> fence so they are barred from evil deeds.
>
> Before the fence, people interested in flying would often stop by and
visit
> or bring their kids to watch. No more.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
/"I hope we can somehow encourage lookers and wanna-be's back onto the airfield
someday."
Marcus/
You bet I'm trying! On weekends I press my 3 year old sons face against
the glass at the terminal when ever a plane goes by! He's starting to
ask me to go to the airport with me to look at airplanes and hepikers! I
so hope he is a third gen pilot!
Carlos in AZ
Marcus Cooper wrote:
>
> It is truly a shame at the impact the goofy rules are making on a great way
> of life. At my last airport the 'strict' security policy included giving
> all those with legal access a card that was nothing more than a business
> card with your picture printed on it that my kids could have duplicated in
> minutes.
>
> William, thanks for taking the time to educate the non-pilot on how things
> could be and used to be.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 2:16 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com; rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: re: RV10-List: Fences
>
>
> Yeah, My old airport had something similar. Makes the uninformed feel more
> secure, while inconveniencing the many. Kinda like waiting in line barefoot
> at the large airports. The law of unintended consequences.
>
> I had a non-pilot interloper comment that security like that (gates &
> fences) "should be mandated at all small airports" -- I had to help him
> correct his "frame of reference."
>
> William
> http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
> "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter
> and those who matter don't mind."
> -- Dr. Suess
>
> -------- Original Message --------
>
>>
>> Makes me proud...
>>
>> >From a post on the Glastar list...
>>
>> At my home airport (FYJ) the anti-terrorist fence ends about 50 feet each
>> side of the road leading in. We were issued codes to get through the
>>
> $17,000
>
>> electric gate. Guests must go through the terminal building ($1.7m) to get
>> in. Terrorists evidently don't have the wits to walk around the end of the
>> fence so they are barred from evil deeds.
>>
>> Before the fence, people interested in flying would often stop by and
>>
> visit
>
>> or bring their kids to watch. No more.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
Carlos Hernandez <carlosh@sec-engr.com>
Structural Engineers Company
2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3
Chandler, AZ 85224
Phone: 480.968.8600
Fax: 480.968.8608
www.sec-engr.com
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged.
This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or
organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or
an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any review, dissemination or copyingof this email and
its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is
prohibited. If you havereceived this email in error, please
immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email
from your system.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass class in Watsonville with RV10 focus |
| From: | "tomhanaway" <tomhanaway(at)adelphia.net> |
Been thinking about this and have signed up. Just finishing up wingtips. Have
a QB fuselage out in the garage.
Will fly into San Jose around 9 PM fri night and head out to Comfort Inn in Watsonville.
Look forward to meeting you all.
Tom Hanaway
Boynton Beach, FL
561-702-5456 (c)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157125#157125
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
You did not realize that Bin Laden's secret plan was to kill us with
bureaucracy. It's well known outside the US that the Feds overreact on
everything by hiring more bureaucrats and making more rules. Wasting
billions of dollars.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Curtis
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 1:16 PM
Subject: re: RV10-List: Fences
Yeah, My old airport had something similar. Makes the uninformed feel more
secure, while inconveniencing the many. Kinda like waiting in line barefoot
at the large airports. The law of unintended consequences.
I had a non-pilot interloper comment that security like that (gates &
fences) "should be mandated at all small airports" -- I had to help him
correct his "frame of reference."
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter
and those who matter don't mind."
-- Dr. Suess
-------- Original Message --------
>
> Makes me proud...
>
> >From a post on the Glastar list...
>
> At my home airport (FYJ) the anti-terrorist fence ends about 50 feet
> each side of the road leading in. We were issued codes to get through
> the $17,000 electric gate. Guests must go through the terminal
> building ($1.7m) to get in. Terrorists evidently don't have the wits
> to walk around the end of the fence so they are barred from evil deeds.
>
> Before the fence, people interested in flying would often stop by and
> visit or bring their kids to watch. No more.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
I used to walk on the ramp at the buildings just west of Pennant Aviation;
Access to the ramnp at the FSDO was not a problem. FBL.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BPA
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 1:50 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fences
When I was a kid (LONG time ago)one of the major arterial streets in Tulsa
ended roughly 100 yds from the main runway at KTUL. One of the great
pleasures we had as youngsters was going to Brahms, getting an ice cream and
cruisin' to the airport with Dad on Saturday nights to watch take offs and
landings. Now we have locked gates, limited access, and the big eye in the
sky watching you if your within 1/4 mile of the field. Damn shame
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 12:23 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Fences
Makes me proud...
>From a post on the Glastar list...
At my home airport (FYJ) the anti-terrorist fence ends about 50 feet each
side of the road leading in. We were issued codes to get through the $17,000
electric gate. Guests must go through the terminal building ($1.7m) to get
in. Terrorists evidently don't have the wits to walk around the end of the
fence so they are barred from evil deeds.
Before the fence, people interested in flying would often stop by and visit
or bring their kids to watch. No more.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Leikam" <daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Stunt Pilot Poem |
My son wrote this for an English assignment the other night in my shop
while I was pounding rivets into my bottom left wing. I thought you all
might like it.
Dave Leikam
40496
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Cutting front baffll CB-1001a |
| From: | "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> |
Hello,
did you guys cut the CB-1001a front baffle in order to fit the prop governor through
the cut out hole?
Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (fuselage)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157200#157200
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc02785_492.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting front baffll CB-1001a |
Yes, a little. You don't want to remove too much, though, because you
don't want to lose your cooling air through that hole.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Jan 10, 2008, at 3:21 AM, Michael Wellenzohn wrote:
> >
>
> Hello,
>
> did you guys cut the CB-1001a front baffle in order to fit the prop
> governor through the cut out hole?
>
> Michael
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (fuselage)
> #511
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157200#157200
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc02785_492.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting front baffll CB-1001a |
Yep, try to trim in the shape of the governor, so that the ramp
kind of form fits to the governor's needs. Leave enough clearance
though to guarantee the lever and bolt won't hang up.
Then, once you have the slot there and it's wide enough, glass in the
ramp ends so the air can't flow up through that area and under
the ramps. You should be able to seal that area pretty well,
even with the clearance hole. The sealing of the air ramps is
a big key to getting things done right.
Tim
Michael Wellenzohn wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> did you guys cut the CB-1001a front baffle in order to fit the prop governor
through the cut out hole?
>
> Michael
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (fuselage)
> #511
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Diesel engine lawsuit...from avweb... |
Millen Aviation Services of Kent, England, filed a lawsuit on Dec. 17, 2007,
against Diamond Aircraft Industries in Wiener Neustadt, Austria, over their
Thielert diesel-powered DA40s. "The claim for damages is based on our
experience with our two DA40 1.7 TDIs, their extremely poor reliability,
highmaintenance costs, waiting time for spare parts and, our firm belief of their
premature release to market without sufficient research, development and testing,"
company partner Mike Millen said in a prepared statement. Diamond did not
immediately respond to AVweb's request for comment....
Kind of interesting that Millen cites high maintenance and spare parts as a
problem when Thielert and others in the diesel business talk about diesel
engines as having less parts and more reliability...sure would be interesting to
know the exact details...
P
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Lammers <davelammers(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting front baffll CB-1001a |
Michael,
You bet--seems that there is no other way.
Dave Lammers
finishing
Michael Wellenzohn wrote:
>
>Hello,
>
>did you guys cut the CB-1001a front baffle in order to fit the prop governor through
the cut out hole?
>
>Michael
>
>--------
>RV-10 builder (fuselage)
>#511
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157200#157200
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc02785_492.jpg
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Stunt Pilot Poem |
| From: | John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com> |
Very nice; thanks for sharing.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 9:12 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Stunt Pilot Poem
My son wrote this for an English assignment the other night in my shop while
I was pounding rivets into my bottom left wing. I thought you all might
like it.
Dave Leikam
40496
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Marlow <sam(at)fr8dog.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Diesel engine lawsuit...from avweb... |
That's all I need to know, to make an informed decision. Back to the
Lycon for now!
Sam
GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com wrote:
> /Millen Aviation Services of Kent, England, filed a lawsuit on Dec.
> 17, 2007, against Diamond Aircraft Industries in Wiener Neustadt,
> Austria, over their Thielert diesel-powered DA40s. "The claim for
> damages is based on our experience with our two DA40 1.7 TDIs, their
> extremely poor reliability, highmaintenance costs, waiting time for
> spare parts and, our firm belief of their premature release to market
> without sufficient research, development and testing," company partner
> Mike Millen said in a prepared statement. Diamond did not immediately
> respond to AVweb's request for comment..../
>
> Kind of interesting that Millen cites high maintenance and spare parts
> as a problem when Thielert and others in the diesel business talk
> about diesel engines as having less parts and more reliability...sure
> would be interesting to know the exact details...
>
> P
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape
> <http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489>
> in the new year.
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Max Hegler" <MaxHegler(at)MSN.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Stunt Pilot Poem |
Ahhh...so he's observed your craftsmanship??? ;)
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Leikam
To: RV-10 matronics
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:11 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Stunt Pilot Poem
My son wrote this for an English assignment the other night in my shop
while I was pounding rivets into my bottom left wing. I thought you all
might like it.
Dave Leikam
40496
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | Gear Leg Fairing |
I'm working on the gear leg fairing hinge that holds the trailing edge
together. The plans indicate that the rivets shouldn't be completely set
because it might crack the thin fiberglass material. I suppose that this
would leave a small protrusion above the surface. Has anyone used the
oops rivets here? They are larger diameter (1/8") but have a smaller
head and might not protrude.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Gear Leg Fairing |
I think what they mean is to not flair the shop head as much. The
countersunk hole is the same and the rivets should be flush...just don't
squeeze them as much.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
40322
801-721-6080
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert Gardner
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Gear Leg Fairing
I'm working on the gear leg fairing hinge that holds the trailing edge
together. The plans indicate that the rivets shouldn't be completely set
because it might crack the thin fiberglass material. I suppose that this
would leave a small protrusion above the surface. Has anyone used the
oops rivets here? They are larger diameter (1/8") but have a smaller
head and might not protrude.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gear Leg Fairing |
Al, whatever rivets you use, consider adding a strip of fiberglass tape
to cover the rivet heads. It will keep them from 'working' later on and
messing up your paint job. After you prime and sand w/ some
primer/filler (Smoothprime) it will look glass smooth.
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
Albert Gardner wrote:
> *Im working on the gear leg fairing hinge that holds the trailing edge *
> *together. The plans indicate that the rivets shouldnt be completely set *
> *because it might crack the thin fiberglass material. I suppose that this *
> *would leave a small protrusion above the surface. Has anyone used the *
> *oops rivets here? They are larger diameter (1/8) but have a smaller *
> *head and might not protrude.*
> *Albert Gardner*
> *Yuma**, **AZ*
> *
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Murillo" <bertrv6(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gear Leg Fairing |
Albert: I have an rv6a I do mnot know if the fairing is very much different,
but I used the regular rivets, if I recall were the A3-4? they are small..
JUst set them carefully, with enough preasure to get a smooth surface.
I did not have any problem with them. The imprtant thing is to have
a good quality
set of, rivets set heads? ( I got mine from Avery) Adjust the rivet Squezer
so that would not crush the fiber glass. Really it is easier than you think.
I would not use pop rivets, they do not have the strengh under the stress
and tension, if that is the case... also they will never look as good...
Hope this will help you
Bertrv6sa
donot archive
On 1/10/08, Albert Gardner wrote:
>
> I'm working on the gear leg fairing hinge that holds the trailing edge
> together. The plans indicate that the rivets shouldn't be completely set
> because it might crack the thin fiberglass material. I suppose that this
> would leave a small protrusion above the surface. Has anyone used the
> oops rivets here? They are larger diameter (1/8") but have a smaller
> head and might not protrude.
> Albert Gardner
> Yuma, AZ
>
>
> - The RV10-List Email Forum -
> to browse
> Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
> much more:
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> Forums!
> http://forums.matronics.com
> - List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gear Leg Fairing |
Albert;
I did the gear fairings last week. I used the 3.5 rivets. Standard. I
had read the note in the plans and used just a gentle squeeze with the
hand squeezer. Had the countersink enough to have the rivet head flush.
Went well. I did not hear any fiberglass cracking or see any problems.
Dr Fred.
Albert Gardner wrote:
> *Im working on the gear leg fairing hinge that holds the trailing edge *
> *together. The plans indicate that the rivets shouldnt be completely set *
> *because it might crack the thin fiberglass material. I suppose that this *
> *would leave a small protrusion above the surface. Has anyone used the *
> *oops rivets here? They are larger diameter (1/8) but have a smaller *
> *head and might not protrude.*
> *Albert Gardner*
> *Yuma**, **AZ*
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Stunt Pilot Poem |
Dave,
Great poem and a refreshing sign of an inspired future aviator (if not
one already) compared to the Fences posts.
If he writes another acro poem with a more positive ending (ie on
maneuvering, cloud dancing, whatever), please post that as well. It was a
very well done and by no means am I indicating anything negative about the
poem, I'd just like to inspire more along the same theme.
Marcus
40286 - Former Skybolt builder/flyer
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:12 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Stunt Pilot Poem
My son wrote this for an English assignment the other night in my shop while
I was pounding rivets into my bottom left wing. I thought you all might
like it.
Dave Leikam
40496
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Gear Leg Fairing |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Just completing a Conditional on a nine year old RV-6A. By the way, the
Lycosaurus is an O-360 modified for IO service and over 900 hours of
joyous almost maintenance free operations. Compressions were all 80/80
and one was 79/80. One half of the AD426D-3-3.5 rivets have pulled
through the glass on the leg fairings. This is the piano hinge retainer
on the trailing edge. Integrity of the glass was compromised by
hydro-carbon pollution which was to be anticipated.
The discovery was part of the SB pursuit and solution on the Nose Wheel
Fork.
For the RV-10, you guys are still seven years from discovery that the
small countersunk head cannot be retained by just the fiberglass under
normal vibration forces.
For What Its Worth
I recommend an epoxy to metal piano hinge fastening process, backed up
by the rivets. Be sure and leave adequate clearance between contact
with the lower engine cowl and the fairing. The fairing lost all of its
outer epoxy and half the glass to the chafing with the lower cowl.
John Cox - #40600
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred
Williams, M.D.
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Gear Leg Fairing
Albert;
I did the gear fairings last week. I used the 3.5 rivets. Standard. I
had read the note in the plans and used just a gentle squeeze with the
hand squeezer. Had the countersink enough to have the rivet head flush.
Went well. I did not hear any fiberglass cracking or see any problems.
Dr Fred.
Albert Gardner wrote:
> *I'm working on the gear leg fairing hinge that holds the trailing
edge *
> *together. The plans indicate that the rivets shouldn't be completely
set *
> *because it might crack the thin fiberglass material. I suppose that
this *
> *would leave a small protrusion above the surface. Has anyone used the
*
> *oops rivets here? They are larger diameter (1/8") but have a smaller
*
> *head and might not protrude.*
> *Albert Gardner*
> *Yuma**, **AZ*
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gear Leg Fairing |
Put a layer of glass between the hinge and the fairing hold with clecos
till it cures then put your rivets in and squeeze as much as you like.
We did this with our 6 after many other builder with great results
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Albert Gardner
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 3:14 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Gear Leg Fairing
I'm working on the gear leg fairing hinge that holds the trailing edge
together. The plans indicate that the rivets shouldn't be completely set
because it might crack the thin fiberglass material. I suppose that this
would leave a small protrusion above the surface. Has anyone used the
oops rivets here? They are larger diameter (1/8") but have a smaller
head and might not protrude.Albert GardnerYuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gear Leg Fairing |
I didn't do this on the leg fairings, but I did do it on the cowl hinges
and that was to apply Pro-seal between the hinge and the fiberglass and
then rivet.
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
Chris and Susie McGough wrote:
> Put a layer of glass between the hinge and the fairing hold with
> clecos till it cures then put your rivets in and squeeze as much as
> you like.
> We did this with our 6 after many other builder with great results
> Chris
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Albert Gardner
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Friday, January 11, 2008 3:14 AM
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Gear Leg Fairing
>
> *Im working on the gear leg fairing hinge that holds the trailing edge *
>
> *together. The plans indicate that the rivets shouldnt be completely set
*
>
> *because it might crack the thin fiberglass material. I suppose that this
*
>
> *would leave a small protrusion above the surface. Has anyone used the *
>
> *oops rivets here? They are larger diameter (1/8) but have a smaller *
>
> *head and might not protrude.*
>
> *Albert Gardner*
>
> *Yuma**, **AZ*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vernon Smith <planesmith(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | GNS430 Mounting Tray |
I was quoted a price of $50 for the tray from Pacific Coast Avionics last
month.
Vern Smith (#324 Doors)
> From: mike(at)learningplanet.com> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: RV10
-List: GNS430 Mounting Tray> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:42:28 -0600> > --> R
V10-List message posted by: Michael Schipper > > H
i Guys,> > Does anyone know where I can find just the mounting kit for a Ga
rmin > 430? I am hoping I can find one and install it in anticipation of >
someday adding the 430.> > If anyone has an extra, or if you know of a sour
ce, it would be > greatly appreciated.> > Regards,> Mike Schipper> #40576 -
=============> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista=AE + Windows Live=99.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?ocid=TXT_TA
GLM_CPC_VideoChat_distantfamily_012008
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Schipper <mike(at)learningplanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GNS430 Mounting Tray |
Thanks to all who responded to my question. After a call to Pacific
Coast Avionics, I have a tray, backplate, and connector kit on order.
The tray itself is only $35, but the backplate and connector kit adds
another $200 or so.
Regards,
Mike Schipper
#40576 - Fuse - www.rvten.com
On Jan 10, 2008, at 4:54 PM, Vernon Smith wrote:
> I was quoted a price of $50 for the tray from Pacific Coast
> Avionics last month.
>
> Vern Smith (#324 Doors)
>
>
> > From: mike(at)learningplanet.com
> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV10-List: GNS430 Mounting Tray
> > Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:42:28 -0600
> >
>
> >
> > Hi Guys,
> >
> > Does anyone know where I can find just the mounting kit for a Garmin
> > 430? I am hoping I can find one and install it in anticipation of
> > someday adding the 430.
> >
> > If anyone has an extra, or if you know of a source, it would be
> > greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mike Schipper
> > #40576 - Fuse - www.==========
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista=AE + Windows
> Live=99. Start now!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass class in Watsonville with RV10 focus |
| From: | "Jon Reining" <jonathan.w.reining(at)wellsfargo.com> |
Great class. One of the best parts was meeting other builders and sharing stories.
The Mexican food was a bonus. There should now be three completed RV10s
on the field - all worth seeing.
Hmmm... Perhaps if there's VFR weather it might be time for the $100 burrito run
in the Citabria to meet some of you guys during the lunch break.
Jon Reining 40514 (along with dad, Bill)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157341#157341
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Plexiglass cleaner |
| From: | "greghale" <ghale5224(at)aol.com> |
I know this has been discussed before, but I had left the plastic covering on my
windows for protection. I am now ready to remove the plastic, but I know it
will leave the sticky glue on the plexiglass. What was the best cleaner to remove
the glue.
Thanks in advance.
Greg Hale
www.nwacaptain.com
--------
Greg Hale rv8/rv10
www.nwacaptain.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157343#157343
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass class in Watsonville with RV10 focus |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
I would like to attend as well, but their web site doesn't show the class - is
it full? I assume it's the 26 & 27 of January.
John
--------
#40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157345#157345
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plexiglass cleaner |
The stuff on the windshield won't leave a residue, but, you can clean it
with Kerosene.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
greghale wrote:
>
> I know this has been discussed before, but I had left the plastic covering on
my windows for protection. I am now ready to remove the plastic, but I know
it will leave the sticky glue on the plexiglass. What was the best cleaner to
remove the glue.
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Greg Hale
> www.nwacaptain.com
>
> --------
> Greg Hale rv8/rv10
> www.nwacaptain.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Plexiglass cleaner |
When I pulled the plastic off the windows were the cleanest they've ever
been; I don't remember anything left from the plastic covering. I have had to
wash them since then. I use Plexus (from Aircraft Spruce) and a micro-fiber
cloth (from the aviation department at Walmart). I seem to remember an extensive
thread regarding the different solvents people are using on the plexiglass. I
personally have never used anything but water and plexus on the windows.
-Jim
N312JE
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
_http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew
In a message dated 1/10/2008 8:04:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ghale5224(at)aol.com writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "greghale"
I know this has been discussed before, but I had left the plastic covering
on my windows for protection. I am now ready to remove the plastic, but I
know it will leave the sticky glue on the plexiglass. What was the best
cleaner to remove the glue.
Thanks in advance.
Greg Hale
www.nwacaptain.com
--------
Greg Hale rv8/rv10
www.nwacaptain.com
_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Plexiglass cleaner |
| From: | "greghale" <ghale5224(at)aol.com> |
Thanks Tim and Jim.
Greg Hale
www.nwacaptain.com
--------
Greg Hale rv8/rv10
www.nwacaptain.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157355#157355
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | Gear Leg Fairing |
Thanks for the suggestions. It sure looks better with the pants and
fairings
on.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cutting front baffll CB-1001a |
| From: | "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> |
Great, thank you guys!
Did I mention this before...I love this forum.
Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (fuselage)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157410#157410
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Any suggestion where to by avionics apart from Steinair |
| From: | "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> |
Hi,
I am trying to get an off from Steinair since last year September.
I wrote 4 emails. I talked to Stein directly and still have no offer.
I had such great experience with him when I purchased the AP servos and the harness.
I can't understand what happened.
Thats my shopping list:
- Audio panel PS Engineering PMS9000B
- Garmin 430
- Garmin SL30
- Garmin 328 (XPDR for Europe)
- Trutrak APRV10 (I purchased the Servos already from you)
Backup instruments (2 1/4) Altimeter, Speed Indicator, Trutrak ADI (2 1/4)
Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (fuselage)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157411#157411
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Any suggestion where to by avionics apart from Steinair |
Here is where Stein sent me to get my radios, etc.
http://www.starkavionics.com/
Rene' Felker
N423CF
40322
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Wellenzohn
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 12:39 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Any suggestion where to by avionics apart from Steinair
Hi,
I am trying to get an off from Steinair since last year September.
I wrote 4 emails. I talked to Stein directly and still have no offer.
I had such great experience with him when I purchased the AP servos and the
harness. I can't understand what happened.
Thats my shopping list:
- Audio panel PS Engineering PMS9000B
- Garmin 430
- Garmin SL30
- Garmin 328 (XPDR for Europe)
- Trutrak APRV10 (I purchased the Servos already from you)
Backup instruments (2 1/4) Altimeter, Speed Indicator, Trutrak ADI (2 1/4)
Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (fuselage)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157411#157411
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Any suggestion where to by avionics apart from Steinair |
I have had an excellent experience with Eastern Avionics. I purchased my
Bendix-King KT-76 (reconditioned), Garmin SL-30, GPS400, GMA340 and an ICOM
handheld from them. The service was excellent and fast; always responsive to
emails. The wiring was done correctly and exactly as I specified. They have also
made warrantee service on my SL-30 very easy. I have no affiliation with them,
I've just been very satisfied with the level of service. The website is:
_http://www.avionix.com/_ (http://www.avionix.com/) I've been dealing with Ron:
_ronald(at)avionix.com_ (mailto:ronald(at)avionix.com)
-Jim
N312JE
(http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
In a message dated 1/11/2008 2:42:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Michael Wellenzohn"
Hi,
I am trying to get an off from Steinair since last year September.
I wrote 4 emails. I talked to Stein directly and still have no offer.
I had such great experience with him when I purchased the AP servos and the
harness. I can't understand what happened.
Thats my shopping list:
- Audio panel PS Engineering PMS9000B
- Garmin 430
- Garmin SL30
- Garmin 328 (XPDR for Europe)
- Trutrak APRV10 (I purchased the Servos already from you)
Backup instruments (2 1/4) Altimeter, Speed Indicator, Trutrak ADI (2 1/4)
Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (fuselage)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157411#157411
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Any suggestion where to by avionics apart from Steinair |
I had a great experience with Tony at Accuracy Avionics....Give him a call. Nothing
but a good product and experience.
Rick S.
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:38:51 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Any suggestion where to by avionics apart from Steinair
Hi,
I am trying to get an off from Steinair since last year September.
I wrote 4 emails. I talked to Stein directly and still have no offer.
I had such great experience with him when I purchased the AP servos and the harness.
I can't understand what happened.
Thats my shopping list:
- Audio panel PS Engineering PMS9000B
- Garmin 430
- Garmin SL30
- Garmin 328 (XPDR for Europe)
- Trutrak APRV10 (I purchased the Servos already from you)
Backup instruments (2 1/4) Altimeter, Speed Indicator, Trutrak ADI (2 1/4)
Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (fuselage)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157411#157411
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass class in Watsonville with RV10 focus |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
OK, I've signed up as well. Flying into SJC, renting a car, staying at the Comfort
Inn. Looking forward to seeing everyone.
John
--------
#40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157461#157461
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass class in Watsonville with RV10 focus |
| From: | "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com> |
By my count, we now have 8 builders that have spoken up here that are going.
Sounds like its going to be a real party [Laughing]
John, when you signed up, did they say how many are now on the list. I was told
that the max they could handle was 15 and a min to make the class was 5 which
they had when I signed up.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Fuselage SB
(N410GB reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157472#157472
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Any suggestion where to by avionics apart from Steinair |
| From: | "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> |
Thank you all for the advice.
Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (fuselage)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157479#157479
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass class in Watsonville with RV10 focus |
As of this morning, we have 8 firm deposits, 4 promises, and a couple more
interested.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 9:23 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fiberglass class in Watsonville with RV10 focus
By my count, we now have 8 builders that have spoken up here that are going.
Sounds like its going to be a real party [Laughing]
John, when you signed up, did they say how many are now on the list. I was
told that the max they could handle was 15 and a min to make the class was 5
which they had when I signed up.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Fuselage SB
(N410GB reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157472#157472
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass class in Watsonville with RV10 focus |
Guy,
I just signed up for the class. My travel plans are to come into Oakland
at 12:05 pm Friday and my flight leaves at 3:50 pm on Sunday. I have a
rental if anyone needs a ride.
Dave Syvertson
40625
QB fuselage
_dsyvert(at)aol.com_ (mailto:dsyvert(at)aol.com)
do not archieve
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C.R. Usery" <drrx60(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Any suggestion where to by avionics apart from Steinair |
I have Aerotronics in Billings Montana doing my panel
VP-200
GMA340 Audio Panel
SL30
Garmin 430 GPS
GTX327
Dual Chelton EFIS
Trutrak Sorcerer Autopilot
EIS 6000 engine monitor
D-10A (Backup)
ELT - 406
CO2 detector
AOA - Sport
Infinity Grips
Gary Wirrel is great - I even have his cell phone.
Jason and Issac are putting the panel together and the wiring is so clean. They
don't hide the back of their panels like you see from other shops they want
you to see how much effort they put into making everything just right.
The phone number is 406-259-5006
Pricing was a little less than Stein quoated me. Just like you I had a hard time
getting response back from Steinair.
Charles Usery
RV-10 Finish Kit
N719PD Reserved
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass class in Watsonville with RV10 focus |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
> John, when you signed up, did they say how many are now on the list. I was told
that the max they could handle was 15 and a min to make the class was 5 which
they had when I signed up.
He didn't say but I'm getting the impression there are about 8 to 10 of us.
John
--------
#40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157557#157557
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cutting front baffll CB-1001a |
| From: | "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net> |
Hey Tim,
Our finishing kit is supposed to be shipped on Mon. and when we're actually at
that stage I'm sure I'll understand your comments about sealing in the ramps better.
In the meantime, I went back and surfed through your site to see if I
could find a picture. The only one I found so far is just after you fitted the
cowl and trimmed around the governor. Any chance you have close ups of the
sealing?
Also, I ran across a reference to your adding toner to the fiberglass on the windshield
to aluminum bond. I'll try to retrace to that stage to see what that's
about, or maybe that's in the finish kit too.
I'll also search your site for "bondo" ... I have many years experience with cars
-- (first plane!) is there a reason why folks don't just use a thin skim coat
of bondo over these fiberglass joints to smooth them up? It's so easy, there
must be SOMETHING wrong with it!
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
waiting on RV-10 finishing kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157613#157613
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass class in Watsonville with RV10 focus |
| From: | "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com> |
poneill(at)irealms.com wrote:
> Are you sure Deems? It might be a good opportunity to pick up some ideas
> for your antenna pylon attach. But too bad you're so far ahead of us!
> --
That's no reason to stay away. I'd buy his lunch just to hear about his overhead
console attachment. [Mr. Green] I will be doing that someday.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Fuselage SB
(N410GB reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157644#157644
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "partner14" <building_partner(at)yahoo.com> |
This should be an easy one.... Do most of you just get your belts from Van's,
or is there a better option?
--------
Don A. McDonald
40636
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157654#157654
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com |
Might want to consider Hooker...
P
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
I'm not sure how the percentages shake out, but I know that there
are many Van's belts, many Hooker Harness Belts, and even some
inertial reel belts that are going in RV-10's. Hooker has many
colors, and I picked those for mine.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
partner14 wrote:
>
>
> This should be an easy one.... Do most of you just get your belts
> from Van's, or is there a better option?
>
> -------- Don A. McDonald 40636
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com> |
This is what I used.......I am not flying yet.....but getting close.
Rene'
40322
N423CF
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of partner14
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 11:54 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Seat Belts
This should be an easy one.... Do most of you just get your belts from
Van's, or is there a better option?
--------
Don A. McDonald
40636
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157654#157654
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com> |
Forgot to add the link.....
http://www.inertialbelts.com/
Rene'
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 6:00 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Seat Belts
This is what I used.......I am not flying yet.....but getting close.
Rene'
40322
N423CF
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of partner14
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 11:54 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Seat Belts
This should be an easy one.... Do most of you just get your belts from
Van's, or is there a better option?
--------
Don A. McDonald
40636
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157654#157654
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
Rene. Did you send a picture? Perhaps you could send me a picture offlist.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 6:00 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Seat Belts
This is what I used.......I am not flying yet.....but getting close.
Rene'
40322
N423CF
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of partner14
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 11:54 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Seat Belts
-->
This should be an easy one.... Do most of you just get your belts from
Van's, or is there a better option?
--------
Don A. McDonald
40636
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157654#157654
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
. The top flange is .2 inches high when clecoed in place. This part came
with the QB fuselage #8 of March 2005. When we queried Vans, they concur
that the bend line for the part was wrong. They are sending a new part.
while waiting I borrowed a replacement part from another builder on my field
and the part fits properly. after installing the F-1099F-L, the F-1099E-L
and F1099H-L looked wrong; we replaced them all, including the F-1099G-L and
they now fit properly. If you are fitting the wing fairings and get a fit
like we did you may have a bad set of fairing parts. In addition Van's
aircraft has a single screw in F-1099G-L and -R even though the plans don't
show a need for one there. One other thing, the picture as shown in 44-2
figure ! does not match the view of the part; the second part we received
works correctly so we assume the drawing is in error.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Baggage door seal |
I know the question has been asked before, but a search did not produce any
answers. What door seal works with the baggage door. I got some from Lowes
but it is too thick and McMaster doesn't show any the right size.
Suggestions from all you flying guys?
Gary
40274
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Baggage door seal |
I ended up using some that I purchased at Home Depot. I initially bought a
roll of door seal that was the gray colored foam with a rectangular cross
section. I bought the thinnest one available and it just wouldn't work becau
se it
was to thick.
I found a different style that worked perfectly on an adjacent shelf at Hom
e
Depot: the box is out at the hangar so I can't give you a brand/model name
right now, but it is made of extremely soft tan colored foam that squishes
flat very well. Also the cross section has 3 ridges (it kind of looks like
this:
/\/\/\ ), so there isn't as much material to begin with. As far as my
passengers can tell (I've never ridden back there) it is sealed perfectly a
nd
allows for easy opening and closing of the door.
-Jim
N312JE
_
In a message dated 1/13/2008 7:46:09 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
speckter(at)comcast.net writes:
I know the question has been asked before, but a search did not produce any
answers. What door seal works with the baggage door. I got some from Lowe
s
but it is too thick and McMaster doesn=99t show any the right size.
Suggestions from all you flying guys?
Gary
40274
_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Baggage door seal |
| From: | "RV10 4JF" <ETskypilot(at)aol.com> |
Check out the seals from Brown Aircraft. They have a good assortment.
www.brownaircraft.com
JF
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157799#157799
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting front baffll CB-1001a |
I'll also search your site for "bondo" ... I have many years experience with
cars -- (first plane!) is there a reason why folks don't just use a thin
skim coat of bondo over these fiberglass joints to smooth them up? It's so
easy, there must be SOMETHING wrong with it!
weight! using microballoons and epoxy weighs less.
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 6:37 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Cutting front baffll CB-1001a
>
> Hey Tim,
>
> Our finishing kit is supposed to be shipped on Mon. and when we're
> actually at that stage I'm sure I'll understand your comments about
> sealing in the ramps better. In the meantime, I went back and surfed
> through your site to see if I could find a picture. The only one I found
> so far is just after you fitted the cowl and trimmed around the governor.
> Any chance you have close ups of the sealing?
>
> Also, I ran across a reference to your adding toner to the fiberglass on
> the windshield to aluminum bond. I'll try to retrace to that stage to see
> what that's about, or maybe that's in the finish kit too.
>
> I'll also search your site for "bondo" ... I have many years experience
> with cars -- (first plane!) is there a reason why folks don't just use a
> thin skim coat of bondo over these fiberglass joints to smooth them up?
> It's so easy, there must be SOMETHING wrong with it!
>
> Later, - Lew
>
> --------
> non-pilot
> crazy about building
> waiting on RV-10 finishing kit
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157613#157613
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Henkjan van der Zouw <henkjan(at)zme.nl> |
| Subject: | Flap position indicator |
Hello all,
I'm currently installing the ACS AF 2500 engine monitor, for the flap
position indicator the manual says, "any 5K potentiometer" will give a
measurement.
Searching the archives I found that I need a Ray Allen Pos 12 sensor,
anybody who did this already? If yes I would like some pictures, no
pictures found in the archives.
Thanks for the help,
RV10 40355
Henkjan van der Zouw
ZME v.o.f.
Rijksstraatweg 28
3545NA
Utrecht
Netherlands
tel. ..31 30 6665443
mob. ..31 653235372
fax. ..31 30 6664659
www.zme.nl
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Gear and Nose Leg Fairings TE closure |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
There was no response to the subject, but I will close out the issue of
fiberglass failure of attachment rivets with an alternate product for
consideration. The rivets won out - forcing a repair.
The plastic airplane boys have given consideration to John Barrett of
Barrett/Garrett Enterprises and their composite hinge attached by Hysol
composite adhesive to the composite (fiberglass) fairing. A novel
solution to dissimilar products attached by adhesive rather than solely
metal rivets. On the RV-10 a few newer design features have been added
to reduce the occurrence but the vibration is still working on it.
Here is the website and information. No indication of failure should be
visible for several years down the road. We are affecting the repair
today on a 1999 RV built aircraft.
John Barrett, CEO
Barrett/Garrett Enterprises, Inc.
PO Box 428
Port Hadlock, WA 98339
www.carbinge.com
John Barrett [2thman(at)cablespeed.com]
He is a Doctor of Dentistry just like John Gonzales for a primary
occupation but is a wealth of knowledge on plastic aircraft components
and use of automotive engines with PSRUs on the front end for safe
aircraft operations.
John Cox (with no business affiliation)
#40600
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flap position indicator |
Pictures of my POS-12 switch install are posted to this thread:
_http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=31209_
(http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=31209)
-Jim
N312JE
In a message dated 1/13/2008 1:35:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
henkjan(at)zme.nl writes:
Hello all,
I=99m currently installing the ACS AF 2500 engine monitor, for the fl
ap
position indicator the manual says, =9Cany 5K potentiometer=9D
will give a
measurement.
Searching the archives I found that I need a Ray Allen Pos 12 sensor,
anybody who did this already? If yes I would like some pictures, no picture
s found
in the archives.
Thanks for the help,
RV10 40355
Henkjan van der Zouw
ZME v.o.f.
Rijksstraatweg 28
3545NA
Utrecht
Netherlands
tel. ..31 30 6665443
mob. ..31 653235372
fax. ..31 30 6664659
_www.zme.nl_ (http://www.zme.nl/)
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dropped the flaps |
| From: | "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net> |
Hey John,
I liked your idea of getting parts UP out of the way, so today I hung my RV-10
tail feathers with strapping material. I just rolled each end about 5 layers
and ran a sheetrock screw through it into a ceiling joist.
This will be my tail section, but for now we're working on my friend's RV-10. After
I finish the '33 Ford streetrod and get it out of the way, that space becomes
a paint booth and I'll paint his section by section. And THEN I'll get
back to mine!
What did you ever do about your dent? As soft and thin as this aluminum is, I
was curious if you tried the suction puller.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
waiting on RV-10 finishing kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157870#157870
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/hung_medium_299.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
I have a few Pix of my new paint Job. Enjoy
Gary
40274
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <toaster73(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Cabin door half alignment |
I was wondering if any one has had a problem with clecoing the cabin
door shells together with the 4 alignment holes at each corner of the
window cut out. If I cleco the bottom corners the top corners miss by
about a 1/4 inch. (see photo) They seem to almost line up fore and aft
but are 1/4 inch off up and down. I tried clamping from the bottom of
the window cut out moving up thinking that it might be a tight fit and
all but that didn't work either. I could cleco the fore and aft door to
fuselage alignment holes woth no problem too. I have the pink colored
finish kit doors and cowling if that makes a difference.
Thanks in advance fro replies to the greatest list in RV world.
Chris Lucas
40072 Finish and Panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net> |
Hey Gary,
Looks like a Bulldawg to me! Outstanding! Did you paint it yourself?
Can you share some details? i.e. brand names: self-ecth primer, primer, basecoat
clearcoat urethane/acrylic enamel, taped stripes, etc.?
Later, - Lew (Greenville, SC)
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
waiting on RV-10 finishing kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157886#157886
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dropped the flaps |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
Lew,
I haven't tried to remove the dent yet. I left the flaps hanging from the ceiling
for now. I'll probably get a good auto body repair guy to come take a look
in the next few months - a lot of car sheet metal nowadays is aluminum. My big
problem is that I've committed to polishing, so it's sort of obvious. The dent
is so small that I'm worried that suction will do more harm than good.
I quit flogging myself and I've moved on to building. Currently riveting the last
bottom skin on the left wing. It would be easy except that the skin fits over
a flap hinge that prohibits easy access. The joys of building....
John
Lew Gallagher wrote:
> Hey John,
>
> I liked your idea of getting parts UP out of the way, so today I hung my RV-10
tail feathers with strapping material. I just rolled each end about 5 layers
and ran a sheetrock screw through it into a ceiling joist.
>
> This will be my tail section, but for now we're working on my friend's RV-10.
After I finish the '33 Ford streetrod and get it out of the way, that space
becomes a paint booth and I'll paint his section by section. And THEN I'll get
back to mine!
>
> What did you ever do about your dent? As soft and thin as this aluminum is,
I was curious if you tried the suction puller.
>
> Later, - Lew
--------
#40572 QB Wings, QB Fuse arrived
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157900#157900
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> |
I am ready to dimple the wing skins for the #6 screws that will hold the wi
ng tips on. What did people do to place the dimples in the wing skin. It se
ems that there is not enough space to allow the dimple die to get at the ho
le in the skin without the side of the die hitting up against the web of th
e ribs. I even ground down female of my #6 die all the way to the dimple an
d it still isn't completely lining up with the hole.
So what have others used to place these dimples in the skin???
Thanks,
JOhn G. 409
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip lens |
| From: | "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net> |
Thanks Deems and Dave,
I've added two countersunk screws/nut plates on each lens (top and bottom toward
the leading edge (5" and 4.5" from corner) with no problems, and that seems
much tighter.
My pilot (I'm the builder) has NO intentions of getting upside down in the RV-10
-- I just wondered if anybody else had heard about the cracks in the 6 windshield/aluminum
bond, and thought that now would be the time to consider beefing
it up. We may still consider putting a 12' or so strip in the center.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
waiting on RV-10 finishing kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157930#157930
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flap position indicator |
Whoops, my mistake, I thought you could see the POS-12 in those posted
pictures. Here are some photos of my POS-12 installation. I attached it to t
he
inside of the tunnel near the flap actuator using blind rivets. I made a
connection using model airplane a threaded pushrod with a z-bend at one end
an a
brass clevis at the other. I had to measure carefully/experiment a bit to s
elect
the appropriate attachment points and mounting angle to get the right throw
and to avoid binding.
-Jim
N312JE
In a message dated 1/13/2008 6:00:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
JSMcGrew(at)aol.com writes:
Pictures of my POS-12 switch install are posted to this thread:
_http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=31209_
(http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=31209)
-Jim
N312JE
In a message dated 1/13/2008 1:35:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
henkjan(at)zme.nl writes:
Hello all,
I=99m currently installing the ACS AF 2500 engine monitor, for the fl
ap
position indicator the manual says, =9Cany 5K potentiometer=9D
will give a
measurement.
Searching the archives I found that I need a Ray Allen Pos 12 sensor,
anybody who did this already? If yes I would like some pictures, no picture
s found
in the archives.
Thanks for the help,
RV10 40355
Henkjan van der Zouw
ZME v.o.f.
Rijksstraatweg 28
3545NA
Utrecht
Netherlands
tel. ..31 30 6665443
mob. ..31 653235372
fax. ..31 30 6664659
_www.zme.nl_ (http://www.zme.nl/)
____________________________________
Start the year off right. _Easy ways to stay in shape_
(http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489) i
n the new year.
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Henkjan van der Zouw <henkjan(at)zme.nl> |
| Subject: | Flap position indicator |
Thank you!,
I had the same idea, now I know I'm on the right track.
Thanks again.
Henkjan
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] Namens JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Verzonden: maandag 14 januari 2008 7:45
Aan: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Onderwerp: Re: RV10-List: Flap position indicator
Whoops, my mistake, I thought you could see the POS-12 in those posted
pictures. Here are some photos of my POS-12 installation. I attached it
to the inside of the tunnel near the flap actuator using blind rivets. I
made a connection using model airplane a threaded pushrod with a z-bend
at one end an a brass clevis at the other. I had to measure
carefully/experiment a bit to select the appropriate attachment points
and mounting angle to get the right throw and to avoid binding.
-Jim
N312JE
In a message dated 1/13/2008 6:00:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
JSMcGrew(at)aol.com writes:
Pictures of my POS-12 switch install are posted to this thread:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=31209
-Jim
N312JE
In a message dated 1/13/2008 1:35:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
henkjan(at)zme.nl writes:
Hello all,
I'm currently installing the ACS AF 2500 engine monitor, for the flap
position indicator the manual says, "any 5K potentiometer" will give a
measurement.
Searching the archives I found that I need a Ray Allen Pos 12 sensor,
anybody who did this already? If yes I would like some pictures, no
pictures found in the archives.
Thanks for the help,
RV10 40355
Henkjan van der Zouw
ZME v.o.f.
Rijksstraatweg 28
3545NA
Utrecht
Netherlands
tel. ..31 30 6665443
mob. ..31 653235372
fax. ..31 30 6664659
www.zme.nl <http://www.zme.nl/>
_____
Start the year off right. Easy
<http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489>
ways to stay in shape in the new year.
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Start the year off right. Easy
<http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489>
ways to stay in shape in the new year.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cabin door half alignment |
| From: | "egohr1" <EGOHR86(at)alumni.carnegiemellon.edu> |
I had the same problem 10 days ago. Called vans to confirm the issue and just
used the lower 4 holes, 2 in the window frame and 2 for alignment to the fuse.
All looks good so far.
I just finished the 8 hours of sanding and fitting to get the doors fit in the
fuse, but they fit fine now.
--------
eric gohr
EGOHR86(at)alumni.carnegiemellon.edu
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157946#157946
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)MSN.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip lens |
I am planning on putting a little fiberglass retainer clip on the leading e
dge of the wing tip which the lense can slip under and then place the two r
etainer screws in the corners. Using duct tape as a releasing agent over th
e leading edge of the lens will prevent the resin from bonding to the lens.
It is removed from the lens once the fabrication is complete.
On a seperate issue, I noticed my right wing tip to be more than a quarter
of an inch too long in chord length and it needed to be cut flush to the T.
E. of the Aileron. The left one was not as bad.
John G.> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Wingtip lens> From: lewgall(at)charter.net> D
10-List message posted by: "Lew Gallagher" > > Thanks
Deems and Dave,> > I've added two countersunk screws/nut plates on each len
s (top and bottom toward the leading edge (5" and 4.5" from corner) with no
problems, and that seems much tighter.> > My pilot (I'm the builder) has N
O intentions of getting upside down in the RV-10 -- I just wondered if anyb
ody else had heard about the cracks in the 6 windshield/aluminum bond, and
thought that now would be the time to consider beefing it up. We may still
consider putting a 12' or so strip in the center.> > Later, - Lew> > ------
--> non-pilot> crazy about building> waiting on RV-10 finishing kit> > > >
> Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php
=========> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vernon Smith <planesmith(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Gear and Nose Leg Fairings TE closure |
Been thinking about your first post on the TE closure. What would you think
about using soft rivets and an adhesive such as Hysol to close this out?
Vern Smith (#324 cabin doors & top)
Subject: RV10-List: Gear and Nose Leg Fairings TE closureDate: Sun, 13 Jan
There was no response to the subject, but I will close out the issue of fib
erglass failure of attachment rivets with an alternate product for consider
ation. The rivets won out ' forcing a repair.
The plastic airplane boys have given consideration to John Barrett of Barre
tt/Garrett Enterprises and their composite hinge attached by Hysol composit
e adhesive to the composite (fiberglass) fairing. A novel solution to diss
imilar products attached by adhesive rather than solely metal rivets. On t
he RV-10 a few newer design features have been added to reduce the occurren
ce but the vibration is still working on it.
Here is the website and information. No indication of failure should be vi
sible for several years down the road. We are affecting the repair today o
n a 1999 RV built aircraft.
John Barrett, CEOBarrett/Garrett Enterprises, Inc.PO Box 428Port Hadlock, W
A 98339www.carbinge.com
John Barrett [2thman(at)cablespeed.com]
He is a Doctor of Dentistry just like John Gonzales for a primary occupatio
n but is a wealth of knowledge on plastic aircraft components and use of au
tomotive engines with PSRUs on the front end for safe aircraft operations.
John Cox (with no business affiliation)
#40600
_________________________________________________________________
Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista=AE + Windows Live=99.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_C
PC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_012008
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Baggage door seal |
| From: | "jayb" <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> |
Try this...
http://www.aviationtechproducts.com/html/accessories.html
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158003#158003
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cabin door half alignment |
| From: | "jayb" <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> |
I had the same issue. Just used the lower holes (they matched). There's a lot of
material to cut off after gluing the halves together, so it shouldn't be a big
issue if the fit isn't perfect on the top holes. Pretty rough stuff.
What's with the pink glass? Mine are all green colored. Allergy related? I haven't
had any issues with itching except after sanding wing tip glass w/ embedded
fabric. This stuff works pretty well if you don't want to wear gloves all the
time
12-15800 INVISIBLE GLOVE HAND PROTECTNT
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2008Individual/Cat08052.pdf
Cheers,
Jay
Fiberglass interruptous while awaiting a replacement garage heater
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158006#158006
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Gear and Nose Leg Fairings TE closure |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
I will evaluate the change in assemblage between the RV6 and the 10.
Then weight mentally the advantage of a dimpled strip of aluminum skin
to be placed over the original fairing and then finished with a BID of
fiberglass. The vibration down the nose is the culprit and we are
looking a building a whole new fairing after 900 hours. Will still use
rivets with Hysol and a backup.
John
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vernon Smith
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 7:44 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Gear and Nose Leg Fairings TE closure
Been thinking about your first post on the TE closure. What would you
think about using soft rivets and an adhesive such as Hysol to close
this out?
Vern Smith (#324 cabin doors & top)
________________________________
Subject: RV10-List: Gear and Nose Leg Fairings TE closure
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:32:52 -0800
From: johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com
There was no response to the subject, but I will close out the issue of
fiberglass failure of attachment rivets with an alternate product for
consideration. The rivets won out - forcing a repair.
The plastic airplane boys have given consideration to John Barrett of
Barrett/Garrett Enterprises and their composite hinge attached by Hysol
composite adhesive to the composite (fiberglass) fairing. A novel
solution to dissimilar products attached by adhesive rather than solely
metal rivets. On the RV-10 a few newer design features have been added
to reduce the occurrence but the vibration is still working on it.
Here is the website and information. No indication of failure should be
visible for several years down the road. We are affecting the repair
today on a 1999 RV built aircraft.
John Barrett, CEO
Barrett/Garrett Enterprises, Inc.
PO Box 428
Port Hadlock, WA 98339
www.carbinge.com <http://www.carbinge.com/>
John Barrett [2thman(at)cablespeed.com]
He is a Doctor of Dentistry just like John Gonzales for a primary
occupation but is a wealth of knowledge on plastic aircraft components
and use of automotive engines with PSRUs on the front end for safe
aircraft operations.
John Cox (with no business affiliation)
#40600
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________
Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista(r) + Windows
Live(tm). Start now!
<http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGL
M
_CPC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_012008>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Flap position indicator |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Henkjan van
der Zouw
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:25 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap position indicator
Thank you!,
I had the same idea, now I know I'm on the right track.
Thanks again.
Henkjan
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] Namens JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Verzonden: maandag 14 januari 2008 7:45
Aan: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Onderwerp: Re: RV10-List: Flap position indicator
Whoops, my mistake, I thought you could see the POS-12 in those posted
pictures. Here are some photos of my POS-12 installation. I attached it
to the inside of the tunnel near the flap actuator using blind rivets. I
made a connection using model airplane a threaded pushrod with a z-bend
at one end an a brass clevis at the other. I had to measure
carefully/experiment a bit to select the appropriate attachment points
and mounting angle to get the right throw and to avoid binding.
-Jim
N312JE
In a message dated 1/13/2008 6:00:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
JSMcGrew(at)aol.com writes:
Pictures of my POS-12 switch install are posted to this thread:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=31209
-Jim
N312JE
In a message dated 1/13/2008 1:35:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
henkjan(at)zme.nl writes:
Hello all,
I'm currently installing the ACS AF 2500 engine monitor,
for the flap position indicator the manual says, "any 5K potentiometer"
will give a measurement.
Searching the archives I found that I need a Ray Allen
Pos 12 sensor, anybody who did this already? If yes I would like some
pictures, no pictures found in the archives.
Thanks for the help,
RV10 40355
Henkjan van der Zouw
ZME v.o.f.
Rijksstraatweg 28
3545NA
Utrecht
Netherlands
tel. ..31 30 6665443
mob. ..31 653235372
fax. ..31 30 6664659
www.zme.nl <http://www.zme.nl/>
_____
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape
<http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489>
in the new year.
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.co
m
/Navigator?RV10-List
.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape
<http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489>
in the new year.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Parlow <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Flap position indicator |
Here's a couple photos of our Ray Allen Pos 12 flap position sensor.
We attached a tab/arm to the flap actuator bar/rod in the tunnel with a cla
mp.
The sensor is mounted on the tunnel side wall with a small bracket.
A small rod with an threaded joint connects the arm/tab to the sensor.
Eric
RV-10, 40014
N104EP
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:40:34 +0100From: henkjan(at)zme.nlSubject: RV10-List
: Flap position indicatorTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Hello all,
I=92m currently installing the ACS AF 2500 engine monitor, for the flap pos
ition indicator the manual says, =93any 5K potentiometer=94 will give a mea
surement.
Searching the archives I found that I need a Ray Allen Pos 12 sensor, anybo
dy who did this already? If yes I would like some pictures, no pictures fou
nd in the archives.
Thanks for the help,
RV10 40355
Henkjan van der Zouw
ZME v.o.f.
Rijksstraatweg 28
3545NA
Utrecht
Netherlands
tel. ..31 30 6665443
mob. ..31 653235372
fax. ..31 30 6664659
www.zme.nl
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Weyant" <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com> |
| Subject: | Windows Installation |
I have just spent two hours researching info on window installation and
cleanup for the "Ten". I've learned that acetone is not the best thing
to use (crazing, cracking), mineral spirits leave a "oily" residue, and
alcohol hardly touches Weld On. Okay then, what to use for cleanup?
I glued in one window yesterday. Not entirely happy with the results.
Far from 100 per cent flange adhesion, even with modest weights added
per Van's instructions to the window (areas of window and fiberglass
flange not mated, some might call them bubbles?) Perhaps this is
acceptable?
Is everyone using strips of fiberglass over the exterior
window/fiberglass joint ? If so, why? To hold the window in place, to
make a smoother transition from plexi to fiberglass, both?
I'm using the stuff Van's recommended for adhesive, Weld-On, and not
much inclined to change to something else unless Van's says so, but this
stuff is hard to handle and harder to clean up.
I'm not a total rooky at this building stuff, finished one RV9A that
turned out really nice, but I'm at my wits end with these windows. Any
advice would be appreciated.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <toaster73(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Windows Installation |
Haven't got to your point yet but maybe try this stuff to protect the
plexi.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/discoat4220plexiglass.php
And try this method stolen from Deems Davis website to hold window in
place with a clamping action
http://www.deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2045%20Cabin%20Doors%20and%20Transpara
ncies/slides/DSC04326.html
Also I believe in sticking with weld-on, because my quick research shows
that it will react with plexi to form a true bond. Like pvc joint glue.
I think somebody tried epoxy and weld on using test pieces and said the
epoxy plexi joint broke with much less force than the weld-on plexi
joint.
Finally I understand the thin strip of glass is used as a kind of
"dry-wall type tape". It can prevent the joint between the edge of the
fiberglass joggle and the plexi from showing up as a hair line crack 100
hours down the road.
The plexi-fiberglass do not expand and contract the same so a nice
filled and sanded joint will open up over time. If you lay a piece of
glass over it you may not get that hair line crack. Its a looks thing.
Headed down the above path soon.
-Chris Lucas
#40072
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Weyant
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 6:45 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Windows Installation
I have just spent two hours researching info on window installation
and cleanup for the "Ten". I've learned that acetone is not the best
thing to use (crazing, cracking), mineral spirits leave a "oily"
residue, and alcohol hardly touches Weld On. Okay then, what to use for
cleanup?
I glued in one window yesterday. Not entirely happy with the results.
Far from 100 per cent flange adhesion, even with modest weights added
per Van's instructions to the window (areas of window and fiberglass
flange not mated, some might call them bubbles?) Perhaps this is
acceptable?
Is everyone using strips of fiberglass over the exterior
window/fiberglass joint ? If so, why? To hold the window in place, to
make a smoother transition from plexi to fiberglass, both?
I'm using the stuff Van's recommended for adhesive, Weld-On, and not
much inclined to change to something else unless Van's says so, but this
stuff is hard to handle and harder to clean up.
I'm not a total rooky at this building stuff, finished one RV9A that
turned out really nice, but I'm at my wits end with these windows. Any
advice would be appreciated.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jay Rowe" <jfrjr(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Windows Installation |
Chuck: I have completed the four windows and so far they have come
out well (no flight or weather stress). I used epoxy/flox (slow cure)
as the adhesive and a strapping system to hold the windows in place
while they cured ( I used 4 on each window). The strapping was just
simple thin cargo straps wrapped around the plane but using multiple
soft blocks (rubber sanding pads) at multiple locations between the
straps and windows to ensure a tight fit at all 360 degrees around the
window. I had previously doubled taped (electrical) the windows at the
edges----one layer corresponding to the inside rim of the window recess
fiberglass and the second about 1/8 inch outward from the first. After
curing I filled in any remaining gaps between fiberglass and window with
a epoxy/flox/filler mix and then sanded that junction smooth. (The
electrical tape, if you are careful, can take quite a beating and not be
disturbed.). I then put two layers of fiberglass over the
junction----the first layer being about 1 inch wide and the 2nd maybe 1
1/2 wide but sanded smooth between layers. The second layer abutted the
outside (top) layer of tape. When I was happy with how well the result
blended in with the fuselage I then removed the top layer of tape and
very carefully feathered in the fiberglass on that side. I will then
paint to the edge of the 2nd layer of tape. All the above was not my
original idea but a combination of suggestions from various sources
(Dave Saylor, David Jones, Deems, and others). Hope this helps. Jay
Rowe #40301 (just finishing FWF)
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Weyant
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 6:45 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Windows Installation
I have just spent two hours researching info on window installation
and cleanup for the "Ten". I've learned that acetone is not the best
thing to use (crazing, cracking), mineral spirits leave a "oily"
residue, and alcohol hardly touches Weld On. Okay then, what to use for
cleanup?
I glued in one window yesterday. Not entirely happy with the
results. Far from 100 per cent flange adhesion, even with modest
weights added per Van's instructions to the window (areas of window and
fiberglass flange not mated, some might call them bubbles?) Perhaps
this is acceptable?
Is everyone using strips of fiberglass over the exterior
window/fiberglass joint ? If so, why? To hold the window in place, to
make a smoother transition from plexi to fiberglass, both?
I'm using the stuff Van's recommended for adhesive, Weld-On, and not
much inclined to change to something else unless Van's says so, but this
stuff is hard to handle and harder to clean up.
I'm not a total rooky at this building stuff, finished one RV9A that
turned out really nice, but I'm at my wits end with these windows. Any
advice would be appreciated.
Chuck
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
1/13/2008 8:23 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Windows Installation |
Chuck,
I completed my windows per Van's instruction and at first they came
out really nice. After 275 hrs, some of them are showing the joint
between the window and the fiberglass. It is showing as a crack in
the paint, something I have seen on other RV10s.
If I were to do it again, I would use the Weld-On but add a very thin
fiberglass tape to cover the joint. This (I think) will add a lot of
strength to the joint and provide some level of tolerance for
imperfect window adhesion. I would still not relax and do my best to
install the windows as if the tape did not exist.
Rob
On Jan 14, 2008, at 6:45 PM, Chuck Weyant wrote:
> I have just spent two hours researching info on window installation
> and cleanup for the "Ten". I've learned that acetone is not the
> best thing to use (crazing, cracking), mineral spirits leave a
> "oily" residue, and alcohol hardly touches Weld On. Okay then, what
> to use for cleanup?
>
> I glued in one window yesterday. Not entirely happy with the
> results. Far from 100 per cent flange adhesion, even with modest
> weights added per Van's instructions to the window (areas of window
> and fiberglass flange not mated, some might call them bubbles?)
> Perhaps this is acceptable?
>
> Is everyone using strips of fiberglass over the exterior window/
> fiberglass joint ? If so, why? To hold the window in place, to
> make a smoother transition from plexi to fiberglass, both?
>
> I'm using the stuff Van's recommended for adhesive, Weld-On, and not
> much inclined to change to something else unless Van's says so, but
> this stuff is hard to handle and harder to clean up.
>
> I'm not a total rooky at this building stuff, finished one RV9A that
> turned out really nice, but I'm at my wits end with these windows.
> Any advice would be appreciated.
> Chuck
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Windows Installation |
| From: | "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net> |
Hey Chris,
I like your sheetrock analogy best. We are also soon approaching this stage and
will go with the cloth strip -- perhaps carbon fiber. To further the mud joint
analogy, I'll probably use a 90 degree die grinder with a 2" quicklock sanding
disk and make a shallow depression in the plexi/fiberglass joint (just as
edges of sheetrock are tapered) and then fill that back in flush with the tape
and glass.
And then (just to mess with the purists) I may feather that with ... Bondo!
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
waiting on RV-10 finishing kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158263#158263
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tgesele(at)optonline.net |
| Subject: | Re: Windows Installation |
Chuck,
To provide another perspective, I used the weld-on on my -10 windows with
mixed results. The first three windows came out fine (rear window + 1 door). The
4th developed some minor crazing of the plexi around two of the corners where
bonded. The windscreen was a complete disaster, the majority of the bonded
edge developed cracks up to 1/2 - 2/3 of the was thru the plexi. I did not use
any acetone, laquer thinner, MEK, or any other solvents on the plexi and relatively
light clamping pressure. The only common theme is that it was getting progressively
colder as I did the windows so that may have something to do with
it.
One thing I did note when removing the windscreen was that the weld-on was well
bonded to the plexi but pealed off the fiberglass relatively easily with a
little heat. So, for what it's worth, I won't be using the weld-on for the new
windscreen and will either go with one of the 3M products or epoxy + cotton
flox.
Regarding the fiberglass around the perimeter, it supposedly help prevents the
cracking in the paint that has shown up in some of the finished -10s. Strictly
cosmetic and relatively easy to add.
Good luck,
Tom Gesele #40473
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Weyant
Date: Monday, January 14, 2008 7:06 pm
Subject: RV10-List: Windows Installation
> I have just spent two hours researching info on window
> installation and cleanup for the "Ten". I've learned that
> acetone is not the best thing to use (crazing, cracking),
> mineral spirits leave a "oily" residue, and alcohol hardly
> touches Weld On. Okay then, what to use for cleanup?
>
> I glued in one window yesterday. Not entirely happy with the
> results. Far from 100 per cent flange adhesion, even with
> modest weights added per Van's instructions to the window (areas
> of window and fiberglass flange not mated, some might call them
> bubbles?) Perhaps this is acceptable?
>
> Is everyone using strips of fiberglass over the exterior
> window/fiberglass joint ? If so, why? To hold the window in
> place, to make a smoother transition from plexi to fiberglass, both?
>
> I'm using the stuff Van's recommended for adhesive, Weld-On, and
> not much inclined to change to something else unless Van's says
> so, but this stuff is hard to handle and harder to clean up.
>
> I'm not a total rooky at this building stuff, finished one RV9A
> that turned out really nice, but I'm at my wits end with these
> windows. Any advice would be appreciated.
> Chuck
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Windows Installation |
Hey, folks
We're coming up on the same decision...
For those who have chosen to use Sika-flex 295 UV, what do you think
of it by now? It seems to me like a natural choice for our windows.
Does anybody have information to the contrary?
How about experience with 3M 2216?
Marlys and John Ackerman 40458
On Jan 14, 2008, at 4:45 PM, Chuck Weyant wrote:
> I have just spent two hours researching info on window installation
> and cleanup for the "Ten". I've learned that acetone is not the
> best thing to use (crazing, cracking), mineral spirits leave a
> "oily" residue, and alcohol hardly touches Weld On. Okay then,
> what to use for cleanup?
>
> I glued in one window yesterday. Not entirely happy with the
> results. Far from 100 per cent flange adhesion, even with modest
> weights added per Van's instructions to the window (areas of window
> and fiberglass flange not mated, some might call them bubbles?)
> Perhaps this is acceptable?
>
> Is everyone using strips of fiberglass over the exterior window/
> fiberglass joint ? If so, why? To hold the window in place, to
> make a smoother transition from plexi to fiberglass, both?
>
> I'm using the stuff Van's recommended for adhesive, Weld-On, and
> not much inclined to change to something else unless Van's says so,
> but this stuff is hard to handle and harder to clean up.
>
> I'm not a total rooky at this building stuff, finished one RV9A
> that turned out really nice, but I'm at my wits end with these
> windows. Any advice would be appreciated.
> Chuck
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-10 finishing kit-recommended deletions??? |
| From: | "tomhanaway" <tomhanaway(at)adelphia.net> |
Ordering my finishing kit in the next two weeks. Engine will be a IO-540.
Other than cowls ( I'm still undecided about James), what recommendations does
the group have as to deletions because other aftermarket items seem to be better
than the items furnished by Van's?
Or is the finishing kit really pretty good as is?
Thanks,
Tom Hanaway
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158324#158324
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 finishing kit-recommended deletions??? |
| From: | pilotdds(at)aol.com |
Skip the nose wheel-valve stem clearence to close.James cowl requires different
(expensive) spinner.I would be interested in anybodies hands on Rv-10 James cowl
experience-Rumor has it there are some bugs.The glass is nicer than vans.
-----Original Message-----
From: tomhanaway <tomhanaway(at)adelphia.net>
Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 9:57 am
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 finishing kit-recommended deletions???
Ordering my finishing kit in the next two weeks. Engine will be a IO-540.
Other than cowls ( I'm still undecided about James), what recommendations does
the group have as to deletions because other aftermarket items seem to be better
than the items furnished by Van's?
Or is the finishing kit really pretty good as is?
Thanks,
Tom Hanaway
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158324#158324
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| Subject: | Windows Installation |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Sorry to hear of your window development. Some did not want to hear my
post two + years ago as to what was found with Lancair's and those
darned plastic aircraft. VAN is relatively new to big plastic canopies
which led to a discussion on ways to reduce this likelihood.
Deems gave an excellent alternative method. Jesse who has replaced a
windscreen can add first person perspective on both removal, product
choice and re-installation.
The adhesive agent, the method of mounting and the cleanliness of the
work will all contribute to the final outcome. No one wants to do this
job twice. A similar job can surface with the improper use of fillers
over the countersink head of rivets which secure dissimilar products
like aluminum and fiberglass. Research carefully. The disband usually
takes two to three annual Winter/Summer cycles to fully cure. Pictures
of sunken filler over fasteners (under a $28,000 paint job are available
on request).
I encourage a fiberglass cover strip. I strongly encourage epoxy and not
bondo (polyester filler) on the products.
The great thing here is that there are so many ways to do this task.
Each of us becomes that manufacturer with the end Serviceability of our
efforts the result of our planning and research. My hat is off to Dave
Saylor to share his techniques with the RV-10 group by hosting a
seminar. When working with composites, talk to a composite specialist.
When working with aluminum talk to a Vans builder.
John Cox
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From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kermanj
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 3:57 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Windows Installation
Chuck,
I completed my windows per Van's instruction and at first they came out
really nice. After 275 hrs, some of them are showing the joint between
the window and the fiberglass. It is showing as a crack in the paint,
something I have seen on other RV10s.
If I were to do it again, I would use the Weld-On but add a very thin
fiberglass tape to cover the joint. This (I think) will add a lot of
strength to the joint and provide some level of tolerance for imperfect
window adhesion. I would still not relax and do my best to install the
windows as if the tape did not exist.
Rob
On Jan 14, 2008, at 6:45 PM, Chuck Weyant wrote:
I have just spent two hours researching info on window installation and
cleanup for the "Ten". I've learned that acetone is not the best thing
to use (crazing, cracking), mineral spirits leave a "oily" residue, and
alcohol hardly touches Weld On. Okay then, what to use for cleanup?
I glued in one window yesterday. Not entirely happy with the results.
Far from 100 per cent flange adhesion, even with modest weights added
per Van's instructions to the window (areas of window and fiberglass
flange not mated, some might call them bubbles?) Perhaps this is
acceptable?
Is everyone using strips of fiberglass over the exterior
window/fiberglass joint ? If so, why? To hold the window in place, to
make a smoother transition from plexi to fiberglass, both?
I'm using the stuff Van's recommended for adhesive, Weld-On, and not
much inclined to change to something else unless Van's says so, but this
stuff is hard to handle and harder to clean up.
I'm not a total rooky at this building stuff, finished one RV9A that
turned out really nice, but I'm at my wits end with these windows. Any
advice would be appreciated.
Chuck
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| From: | "Chuck Weyant" <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Windows Installation |
Hey, thanks guys for all the info. Think I'll stick with the Weld On,
do more taping in the prep (to cut down on cleanup), and do the
fiberglass strip around the exterior perimeter of the windows.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay Rowe
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 7:44 PM
January 03, 2008 - January 15, 2008
RV10-Archive.digest.vol-cy