RV10-Archive.digest.vol-de
March 16, 2008 - March 26, 2008
and gma 340, looking at the lengths of everything if I stack them in
said order top to bottom I will be able to see the back of the tubes on
each unit looking up from the floor. Would this be ok. I am not use to
any particular order. Plus having the 430 on top puts its sreen up where
I can see it. Just thought this arrangment might be handy down the road
if I have maintenance issues looking working under/behind the panel.
Thoughts??
Chris Lucas
#40072
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Garmin Avionics stack question |
Chris, Stein built my panel using his three piece panel that is an inch or
so taller. I have a PS engineering audio panel, DVD/Radio, 430, sl30, 327
and GRT EIS all in one stack. I agree with Jesse, no way I want to do any
work from under the panel. I had to do some rewiring myself and even being
able to pull the center section out a ways, it was still difficult. From
under the panel it was impossible. If I remember right the SL30 is the
deepest item...center rib considerations.
Rene'
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 7:48 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Garmin Avionics stack question
In planning my panel , I will have a garmin 430, sl30, gtx327, and gma 340,
looking at the lengths of everything if I stack them in said order top to
bottom I will be able to see the back of the tubes on each unit looking up
from the floor. Would this be ok. I am not use to any particular order.
Plus having the 430 on top puts its sreen up where I can see it. Just
thought this arrangment might be handy down the road if I have maintenance
issues looking working under/behind the panel. Thoughts??
Chris Lucas
#40072
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Silpruf / Window Installation and other magic |
Les,
Are you suggesting to install the front windsheild with this method? I am u
sing Silpruf on the doors and cabin=C2-glass=C2-but plan to follow plan
s on the windscreen... If anyone gets the chance to check out a Cirrus, you
will see similar install on their windows. just a bead of adhesive seperat
ing the window from the composite. Looks really clean, if ya'll do it right
.....would love to check out that video...just too poor from buying the Sil
pruf. And Les is right...it's high performance silicone, you couldn't paint
it if you tried. The big trick is to get the gap as uniform as possible pr
ior to the install. If you use Dave's method it works well. After paint you
fill the gap...I'm shooting for less than an 1/8th, closer to 3/32 to a 1/
16th with the silpruf. leave the bead to dry then a sharp razor to trim the
bead flush,=C2-should leave you a nice clean line between the plexi and
the composite top.
Rick Sked
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 8:18:32 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Silpruf / Window Installation and other magic
Hi
One the strength of Dave Saylor's recommendation and other comments, I purc
hased the AirlinkTech video on using Silpruf to set install windows. The vi
deo can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/2ndhr9
I watched the video last night and have a few comments, FWIW.
First, a big negative - it=99s on a VHS tape not on a DVD. After that
it was a very nice "how to" video.
In short the process used is to mask the windows and then set them in place
on small Silpruf standoffs that keep the windows flush with the canopy. A
bead of Silpuf is used to install the windows. Screw on clecos are used to
keep everything in pace while things dry.
The video is very detailed and shows everything required, step by step. It
explains how and why to mask the windows to get a nice sharp reveal. It als
o shows how to trim the windows for a perfect fit.
A groove (about 1/8") is left between the windows and the canopy. After pai
nting, Silpruf is used to fill the groove. =C2-Apparently Silpruf cannot
be painted so you must pick a Silpuf colour that works with your pain schem
e.
At first blush there seems to be some obvious advantages to this method the
y being:
=C2=B7 =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- The Silpruf has a l
ong working time so you don=99t have to play =9Cbeat the clock
=9D when installing.
=C2=B7 =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- The Silpruf is non
reactive so you can use normal masking tape to setup the =9Creveal
=9D edges. You will have lots of time to get everything just right befor
e you have to remove the masks.
=C2=B7 =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- The Silpruf is flex
ible so there won=99t be cracks in the paint / caulking around the wi
ndows
=C2=B7 =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- In the event that a
window needs to be replaced. It would be a much easier job to remove & rep
lace the window * I think *.
=C2=B7 =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- You are not glassin
g onto a window with all the associated issues with sanding etc. As someone
mentioned in an earlier post, with windows you can=99t fix a screw u
p with an OOPS rivet.
=C2=B7 =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Before curing and a
fter, excess along the groove can be easily removed.
A quick search shows that Silpruf is available in a wide choice of colours
including: White, Black, Limestone, Light Grey, Aluminium, GreyDark, Grey,
Precast White and Bronze.
Right after I watched the video I checked the plans to see how the front wi
ndow is installed. My recollection was there was no =9Cjoggle
=9D at the bottom of the front windscreen. Using Silpruf on the front winds
creen would, I think, require building a joggle and then trimming the windo
w to fit. I just noticed that Dave noted this rework in one of his posts as
well.
The video is very detailed and shows everything required, step by step. It
explains how and why to mask the windows to get a nice sharp reveal. It als
o shows how to trim the windows for a perfect fit. If you are contemplating
using this method, get the video, it is well worth the cost.
Anyway, I for one plan to use this method on the side windows. I still have
a lot of time to contemplate the front windscreen..
Cheers
Les Kearney
#40643 =93 moving from rivets to systems
C-GCWZ
====
=======================
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Silpruf / Window Installation and other magic |
Rick
Buy the video. Sell the kids if you have to raise the cash. There are a few
tricks that make it worth the $30. Especially getting the gap spot on
perfect.
As far as the wind screen is concerned, I would like to use this method but
as a rank amateur, I am not sure I want to be the first to try. I bet that
piece of plexi is not cheap.
Cheers
Les
#40643
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked
Sent: March-16-08 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Silpruf / Window Installation and other magic
Les,
Are you suggesting to install the front windsheild with this method? I am
using Silpruf on the doors and cabin glass but plan to follow plans on the
windscreen... If anyone gets the chance to check out a Cirrus, you will see
similar install on their windows. just a bead of adhesive seperating the
window from the composite. Looks really clean, if ya'll do it
right.....would love to check out that video...just too poor from buying the
Silpruf. And Les is right...it's high performance silicone, you couldn't
paint it if you tried. The big trick is to get the gap as uniform as
possible prior to the install. If you use Dave's method it works well. After
paint you fill the gap...I'm shooting for less than an 1/8th, closer to 3/32
to a 1/16th with the silpruf. leave the bead to dry then a sharp razor to
trim the bead flush, should leave you a nice clean line between the plexi
and the composite top.
Rick Sked
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 8:18:32 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Silpruf / Window Installation and other magic
Hi
One the strength of Dave Saylor's recommendation and other comments, I
purchased the AirlinkTech video on using Silpruf to set install windows. The
video can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/2ndhr9
I watched the video last night and have a few comments, FWIW.
First, a big negative - it's on a VHS tape not on a DVD. After that it was a
very nice "how to" video.
In short the process used is to mask the windows and then set them in place
on small Silpruf standoffs that keep the windows flush with the canopy. A
bead of Silpuf is used to install the windows. Screw on clecos are used to
keep everything in pace while things dry.
The video is very detailed and shows everything required, step by step. It
explains how and why to mask the windows to get a nice sharp reveal. It also
shows how to trim the windows for a perfect fit.
A groove (about 1/8") is left between the windows and the canopy. After
painting, Silpruf is used to fill the groove. Apparently Silpruf cannot be
painted so you must pick a Silpuf colour that works with your pain scheme.
At first blush there seems to be some obvious advantages to this method they
being:
* The Silpruf has a long working time so you don't have to play
"beat the clock" when installing.
* The Silpruf is non reactive so you can use normal masking tape to
setup the "reveal" edges. You will have lots of time to get everything just
right before you have to remove the masks.
* The Silpruf is flexible so there won't be cracks in the paint /
caulking around the windows
* In the event that a window needs to be replaced. It would be a
much easier job to remove & replace the window *I think*.
* You are not glassing onto a window with all the associated issues
with sanding etc. As someone mentioned in an earlier post, with windows you
can't fix a screw up with an OOPS rivet.
* Before curing and after, excess along the groove can be easily
removed.
A quick search shows that Silpruf is available in a wide choice of colours
including: White, Black, Limestone, Light Grey, Aluminium, GreyDark, Grey,
Precast White and Bronze.
Right after I watched the video I checked the plans to see how the front
window is installed. My recollection was there was no "joggle" at the bottom
of the front windscreen. Using Silpruf on the front windscreen would, I
think, require building a joggle and then trimming the window to fit. I just
noticed that Dave noted this rework in one of his posts as well.
The video is very detailed and shows everything required, step by step. It
explains how and why to mask the windows to get a nice sharp reveal. It also
shows how to trim the windows for a perfect fit. If you are contemplating
using this method, get the video, it is well worth the cost.
Anyway, I for one plan to use this method on the side windows. I still have
a lot of time to contemplate the front windscreen...
Cheers
Les Kearney
#40643 - moving from rivets to systems
C-GCWZ
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Reynolds <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
Apple-Mail-6--188049053
Apple-Mail-7--188049048--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Where did you mount the Lightspeed Plasma III box |
| From: | "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> |
Thanks you guys for your help.
Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (engine, prop, finishing)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170349#170349
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dawson-Townsend,Timothy" <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero> |
Anyone thinking about EFIS or MFD from Aspen Avionics? Looks like some
very attractive units.
TDT
40025
Firewall forward
Tim Dawson-Townsend
tdt(at)aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam <sam(at)fr8dog.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel pressure problems |
The first fifty hours were trouble free, as far as fuel pressure goes,
but now for the past 40 hours or so, I'm getting fuel pressure
fluctuation's. Normally the F/P runs in the mid to low 20's, but now
constantly fluctuates from 8 to 27 psi. The engine runs ok, but it's
disconcerting. Has anybody experienced this on an IO540D4A5 before,
would the engine actually keep running if the F/P was really down to 8psi?
Sam Marlow
#40157
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel pressure problems |
| From: | "Bobby J. Hughes" <bhughes(at)qnsi.net> |
Could this be related to the Fuel Injection AD was published last week?
Bobby Hughes
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 9:11 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
The first fifty hours were trouble free, as far as fuel pressure goes,
but now for the past 40 hours or so, I'm getting fuel pressure
fluctuation's. Normally the F/P runs in the mid to low 20's, but now
constantly fluctuates from 8 to 27 psi. The engine runs ok, but it's
disconcerting. Has anybody experienced this on an IO540D4A5 before,
would the engine actually keep running if the F/P was really down to
8psi?
Sam Marlow
#40157
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Andair/FI Fitting |
Hi Jim,
I am sorry, I am really having trouble understanding why I need this. My an
dair valve has six ports. I have plumbed all the lines coming from the fuel
tanks and going back to the fuel tanks. I originally needed to return fuel
to the tanks because I was going to be running electrical fuel pumps all t
he time. I am still going to run overflow fuel to the tqanks if I am using
the boast pump.
I also am using a six inch extension to place the valve lower down in the t
unnel. I have no problem with space with the port that will be going to the
fuel filter(Outflow). So why can I not just run the 3/8" return line from
the pump package relief valve to the return port on the Andair valve?
JOhn> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Andair/FI Fitting> From: jimberry(at)qwest.net>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:08:30 -0700> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com> > --> R
V10-List message posted by: "jim berry" > > John,> > I
believe most people are using the Andair valve with the built in 90 degree
ports, because it makes plumbing the fuel lines easier. I used the swivel t
ee on the center(or outflow) port because there is not enough room for a st
andard tee to clear the other 2 ports during installation. If you spend som
e time trying to get all 3 lines installed to the Andair in the confined sp
ace of the tunnel I think you will find the extra cost of the swivel tee to
be worth it.> > Jim Berry> 40482> N15JB(reserved)> > > > > Read this topic
online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=169822#16982
====> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam <sam(at)fr8dog.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pressure problems |
Possibly, I haven't checked that yet, but it's inconsistent. The
fluctuation's can subside for minuets at a time in cruise.
Bobby J. Hughes wrote:
>
> Could this be related to the Fuel Injection AD was published last week?
>
> Bobby Hughes
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam
> *Sent:* Monday, March 17, 2008 9:11 AM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
>
> The first fifty hours were trouble free, as far as fuel pressure goes,
> but now for the past 40 hours or so, I'm getting fuel pressure
> fluctuation's. Normally the F/P runs in the mid to low 20's, but now
> constantly fluctuates from 8 to 27 psi. The engine runs ok, but it's
> disconcerting. Has anybody experienced this on an IO540D4A5 before,
> would the engine actually keep running if the F/P was really down to 8psi?
> Sam Marlow
> #40157
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | FS - Flap Positioning System from Vans (Showplanes) |
I managed to order 2 of these. Just installed mine and want to sell the
other.
$200 and I'll pay shipping. Regularly $225
Never unpacked
Ordered from Vans as ES FLAP POS SWV 10
same as FPS-E4 from Showplanes
Please contact off list.
Thanks.
Bill "working with the top and the panel with the finishing kit in the
mail" Watson
40605
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Another RV-10 painted |
Finally got around to creating a simple web page showing my RV-10 in its new colors.
Paint was done by AOG Aircraft Painting in Mena, Arkansas and although
it is not one of the flashier -10's flying, I like it quite a lot. Only problem
I have is that the airplane now looks like it is store-bought, and most people
guess it is a Lancair and not a homebuilt RV. I can live with that... :)
URL is:
http://dbmichair.mc.vanderbilt.edu/rv10/n104ld.html
-Dan Masys
RV10 N104LD
RV7A N747DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Air Ramps and Governor interference |
| From: | "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com> |
G'day all,
I've just installed the air ramps in the upper cowl and there is
significant interference with the prop governor. It seems that the
interference would go away if the air ramps had been pushed fully
forward in the cowl, but at the expense of a significant transition
(step) between the cowl inlet and the ramp. I notice on Tim's site that
he has trimmed the ramp for the governor - same condition as mine. Is
this normal or have I stuffed something up?
Cheers,
Ron
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
your computer."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Ramps and Governor interference |
Normal...stinking rotten normal. And look!!! Nowhere is it mentioned in the
plans...thanks to Tim for pointing it out, lots easier to trim, cleco trim
cleco trim cleco GLUE!!
Rick Sked
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron McGANN" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 7:08:00 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Air Ramps and Governor interference
G'day all,
I've just installed the air ramps in the upper cowl and there is significan
t interference with the prop governor.=C2- It seems that the interference
would go away if the air ramps had been pushed fully forward in the cowl,
but at the expense of a significant transition (step) between the cowl inle
t and the ramp.=C2- I notice on Tim's site that he has trimmed the ramp f
or the governor - same condition as mine.=C2-=C2- Is this normal or hav
e I stuffed something up?
Cheers,
Ron "Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
===============
====
=======================
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Another RV-10 painted |
Beautiful! Congratulations!
I especially like the -7 & -10 shot. Must be nice to have a choice.
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Masys
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 9:08 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Another RV-10 painted
Finally got around to creating a simple web page showing my RV-10 in its new colors.
Paint was done by AOG Aircraft Painting in Mena, Arkansas and although
it is not one of the flashier -10's flying, I like it quite a lot. Only problem
I have is that the airplane now looks like it is store-bought, and most people
guess it is a Lancair and not a homebuilt RV. I can live with that... :)
URL is:
http://dbmichair.mc.vanderbilt.edu/rv10/n104ld.html
-Dan Masys
RV10 N104LD
RV7A N747DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Ramps and Governor interference |
Very normal indeed. Now, just make sure that in the hollow
area under the air ramp you also seal it so that air can't
traverse that cavity....that will help greatly with your
CHT's later.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
McGANN, Ron wrote:
>
> G'day all,
>
> I've just installed the air ramps in the upper cowl and there is
> significant interference with the prop governor. It seems that the
> interference would go away if the air ramps had been pushed fully
> forward in the cowl, but at the expense of a significant transition
> (step) between the cowl inlet and the ramp. I notice on Tim's site that
> he has trimmed the ramp for the governor - same condition as mine. Is
> this normal or have I stuffed something up?
>
> Cheers,
> Ron
>
> "Warning:
> The information contained in this email and any attached files is
> confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
> recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
> attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
> in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
> taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
> however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
> sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
> checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
> your computer."
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Another RV-10 painted |
| From: | "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> |
Congrats Looks totally awesome.Can you give us a few details on what you did for
prep.... what they did for prep - wheel pants on/off
cowling on/off .... flight controls..... and costs
How long was it in their shop. Did they let you work there.
--------
OSH '08 or Bust
Q/B Kit - Doors/windows/fiberglass stuff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170555#170555
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> |
| Subject: | Another RV-10 painted |
Nice paint job!
>>most people guess it is a Lancair and not a homebuilt RV<<
Ground control upgraded me to a Columbia the other day...
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Another RV-10 painted |
So why is a Columbia an 'upgrade'? ;-)
Nice paint job Dan!
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
Dave Saylor wrote:
>
> Nice paint job!
>
>
>>> most people guess it is a Lancair and not a homebuilt RV<<
>>>
>
> Ground control upgraded me to a Columbia the other day...
>
> Dave Saylor
> AirCrafters LLC
> 140 Aviation Way
> Watsonville, CA
> 831-722-9141
> 831-750-0284 CL
> www.AirCraftersLLC.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jay Rowe" <jfrjr(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | wiring problems (2nd attempt) |
Trying to get all the thru firewall lines in. Going fairly well until I
got to the harness for the Lightspeed (one side) which has the small
D-sub connector that hooks into the console. Since I have my console on
the subpanel I, of course, need to get that connector thru. It is too
large to fit through of any of my existing holes (the largest being 1").
What do I do----take the connector apart or am I missing an easier way?
Gee I wish I knew more about "lectriks". Jay Rowe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam <sam(at)fr8dog.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wiring problems (2nd attempt) |
Jay, I think you answered your question, everybody had to remove the
D-sub to get it through the firewall. Get some help from a steady hand,
or practice a bit first. It's doable.
Sam Marlow
Jay Rowe wrote:
> Trying to get all the thru firewall lines in. Going fairly well until
> I got to the harness for the Lightspeed (one side) which has the small
> D-sub connector that hooks into the console. Since I have my console
> on the subpanel I, of course, need to get that connector thru. It is
> too large to fit through of any of my existing holes (the largest
> being 1"). What do I do----take the connector apart or am I missing
> an easier way? Gee I wish I knew more about "lectriks". Jay Rowe
>
> Upgrade Your Email - Click here!
> <http://promos.hotbar.com/promos/promodll.dll?RunPromo&El=&SG=&RAND=4579&partner=seekmo>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wiring problems (2nd attempt) |
Well, not quite everybody.....I hesitated, and heard that they
recommended leaving it together. So, I used a 1.25" hole
(used a SCAT tube flange) and ran all of my wires through
that. If you can do an excellent job of re-soldering the
cable, then it shouldn't be that big of a deal, but if you're
questioning it at all, you may want to come up with a way
to pass it through in one piece.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Sam wrote:
> Jay, I think you answered your question, everybody had to remove the
> D-sub to get it through the firewall. Get some help from a steady hand,
> or practice a bit first. It's doable.
> Sam Marlow
>
> Jay Rowe wrote:
>> Trying to get all the thru firewall lines in. Going fairly well until
>> I got to the harness for the Lightspeed (one side) which has the small
>> D-sub connector that hooks into the console. Since I have my console
>> on the subpanel I, of course, need to get that connector thru. It is
>> too large to fit through of any of my existing holes (the largest
>> being 1"). What do I do----take the connector apart or am I missing
>> an easier way? Gee I wish I knew more about "lectriks". Jay Rowe
>>
>> Upgrade Your Email - Click here!
>> <http://promos.hotbar.com/promos/promodll.dll?RunPromo&El=&SG=&RAND=4579&partner=seekmo>
>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JSMcGrew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: wiring problems (2nd attempt) |
I made the hole slightly bigger to get the D-sub connector through. It
didn't take much, then I installed a stainless steel firewall seal from
_http://www.epm-avcorp.com/_ (http://www.epm-avcorp.com/) to seal the hole. I posted
pictures on this previous post:
_http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=25094_
(http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=25094)
-Jim
N312JE
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
_http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew
In a message dated 3/18/2008 7:38:23 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jfrjr(at)roadrunner.com writes:
Trying to get all the thru firewall lines in. Going fairly well until I got
to the harness for the Lightspeed (one side) which has the small D-sub
connector that hooks into the console. Since I have my console on the subpanel
I,
of course, need to get that connector thru. It is too large to fit through
of any of my existing holes (the largest being 1"). What do I do----take the
connector apart or am I missing an easier way? Gee I wish I knew more about
"lectriks". Jay Rowe
_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
(http://promos.hotbar.com/promos/promodll.dll?RunPromo&El=&SG=&RAND=4579&partner=seekmo) (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List) _
_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/) _
_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) _
(http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &
Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wiring problems (2nd attempt) |
Sometimes you can take the connector shell off the connector and press
the wiring down 90 degrees from its original orientation and poke that
through a hole. It may fit through a 1" hole that way. I like the scat
tube flange idea. You can fill it with 'firestop' from your big box
hardware store. Comes in a caulk tube or as a foam ..... the foam being
harder to find.
Linn
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Well, not quite everybody.....I hesitated, and heard that they
> recommended leaving it together. So, I used a 1.25" hole
> (used a SCAT tube flange) and ran all of my wires through
> that. If you can do an excellent job of re-soldering the
> cable, then it shouldn't be that big of a deal, but if you're
> questioning it at all, you may want to come up with a way
> to pass it through in one piece.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wiring problems (2nd attempt) |
That is 100% what I did.....I took the shell off, bent it over a
little to pass it through, and then put the shell back on.
And, I used 2000 degree fire putty to stuff the pass through
hole with, and then capped it with red RTV just because the
red RTV makes a nicer outer seal to hold the wires from
wiggling and moving in the putty.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
linn Walters wrote:
>
> Sometimes you can take the connector shell off the connector and press
> the wiring down 90 degrees from its original orientation and poke that
> through a hole. It may fit through a 1" hole that way. I like the scat
> tube flange idea. You can fill it with 'firestop' from your big box
> hardware store. Comes in a caulk tube or as a foam ..... the foam being
> harder to find.
> Linn
>
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
>
>>
>> Well, not quite everybody.....I hesitated, and heard that they
>> recommended leaving it together. So, I used a 1.25" hole
>> (used a SCAT tube flange) and ran all of my wires through
>> that. If you can do an excellent job of re-soldering the
>> cable, then it shouldn't be that big of a deal, but if you're
>> questioning it at all, you may want to come up with a way
>> to pass it through in one piece.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Neg Battery Cable Routing |
| From: | "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com> |
I am trying to wrap up the design of the Negative battery lead from the battery
to the starter. I have two specific questions.
>From the Neg terminal of the battery, Vans shows that you go to airframe ground
at the battery mount frame and that is all. Others have a Neg cable paralleling
the Pos cable to the firewall where the Neg lead is grounded to the firewall.
I am considering grounding at the battery mount frame and continuing the
cable forward to the firewall. My first question is, how many are running 2
cables and if so, are you grounding at both locations? I ask this because in
theory it is creating a ground loop.
When the Neg cable gets to the firewall I will terminate it with a brass bolt through
the firewall. There, I will be able to attach tabbed ground strips on
both sides of the firewall for grounding radios, etc.
The engine will be grounded to the engine mount with Vans grounding strap (I think
it is P-25). My second question is about a cable from the forward side of
the firewall Neg brass bolt to either one of the engine mounting bolts or to
the P-25 attachment point on the engine mount? I think this might be a bit of
an overkill but would like to ask others if they are running this short cable.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Fuselage SB
(N410GB reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170713#170713
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Reynolds <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | Door Fit - Rabbit |
Apple-Mail-15--69638912
Apple-Mail-16--69638905--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | NW RV-10 Dinner and Fly-In (May 17th) |
| From: | John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com> |
Folks:
This is to announce the spring NW RV-10 Builders Dinner and Fly-In, to be
held May 17th. This is our 6th gathering, the first as a fly-in. Each just
keeps getting bigger and better! We encourage all those NW RV-10 builders
out there who have not yet received an invitation to please contact me off
list. We also encourage other RV-10 builders who will be in the Portland,
OR, area for transition training or any other reason to join us. We hope to
have multiple RV-10's flying in, as well as displays of Advanced Flight
Systems' newest offerings. And, of course, since this is more of a social
gathering than a technical one, there will be plenty of good food, drink and
company.
John Jessen
40328
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel Sender Gotchya |
I have been fighting communication problems between JPI engine monitor and
my EFIS. It would not show my fuel gauge. After much frustration we
discovered that the software that was shipped with the JPI monitor was
flawed and did not have the appropriate place to indicate the fuel tanks.
After going on line and downloading the newest software all is well.
So those of you with JPI stuff put this in the memory banks for when you get
to programming stuff. Several wasted weeks and many wasted hours.
Gary
40274
DAR Inspection Scheduled.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Neg Battery Cable Routing |
Gary, Part of your question has come up before, (probably on the
aeroelectric-list. It was specifically addressed to Bob Nuckolls at
one of his Aero Electric seminars. For aircraft like the RV-10 where the
standard battery mount position is in the rear of the aircraft. Bob saw
no problems in grounding the batteries locally (i.e. to the airframe at
the battery location) and avoiding the weight, expense and complexity of
running the additional heavy cable forward to the common firewall ground.
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
orchidman wrote:
>
> I am trying to wrap up the design of the Negative battery lead from the battery
to the starter. I have two specific questions.
>
> >From the Neg terminal of the battery, Vans shows that you go to airframe ground
at the battery mount frame and that is all. Others have a Neg cable paralleling
the Pos cable to the firewall where the Neg lead is grounded to the firewall.
I am considering grounding at the battery mount frame and continuing the
cable forward to the firewall. My first question is, how many are running
2 cables and if so, are you grounding at both locations? I ask this because in
theory it is creating a ground loop.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Neg Battery Cable Routing |
| From: | "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com> |
Deems Davis wrote:
> ...For aircraft like the RV-10 where the
> standard battery mount position is in the rear of the aircraft. Bob saw
> no problems in grounding the batteries locally (i.e. to the airframe at
> the battery location) and avoiding the weight, expense and complexity of
> running the additional heavy cable forward to the common firewall ground.
Bob is located only about 2 1/2 hours away but I have never attended his seminar.
I have his books.
I know there are people flying that have done both and I am trying to see which
might be better and any problems some might have had with either approach.
Are there any advantages or needs to having a Neg cable going to the firewall in
the -10?
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Fuselage SB
(N410GB reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170739#170739
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Reynolds <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | Door Fit - Rabbit w/o pictures |
John,
We used a router with a "rabbeting bit"
Amana Tool # 49340, www.amanatool.com, David got it a local tool
store that sells to the cabinet trade.
The carbide flute was 1.375 dia, the guide bearing was 1.125 dia to
produce a .125 rabbit. The depth was set to the thickness of the door
edge.
See remarks in the email response below, Mar 14 from me.
Richard Reynolds
March 14, 2008 reply from Richard Reynolds
John,
We put a 1/8 square rabbit in the canopy door frame. it made the door
very easy to fit. Make it deep enough for the thickest part of the
door. Be careful when trimming the canopy frame in way of the
aluminum fuselage frame.
Please note!
After trimming the door to the factory scribe lines, take equal
amounts off the forward and aft edges. The temptation is after
getting one edge to fit, removing the remainder from the other edge.
DON'T, because it makes the inside "jam" unequal. (Ask me how I know)
Also, the top of the canopy door frame really does not need the
rabbit, The top edge of the door WILL require a bevel to open properly!
Richard Reynolds
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
| Subject: | TCW Technologies / Safety-Trim special announcement |
Fellow RV builders,
We are please to announce that Van's Aircraft, Inc. has become a
distributor of our series of Safety-Trim products and accessories. Our
products are now available through their Online Web Catalog at
www.vansaircraft.com. Safety-Trim is the electronic trim controller
that improves the safety and performance of the electric trim servos
used in the RV series of aircraft.
Additionally, TCW Technologies will be at Sun-n-Fun this year at
outdoor booth N-96. We welcome you and would especially like to
personally thank all those who have already purchased our products. If
you are unfamiliar with our products please come see our working demo
unit and try out Safety-Trim for yourself.
We also have an exciting new product announcement to make at
Sun-n-Fun.
Best regards,
Bob Newman (40176 almost to the glass work!)
TCW Technologies
www.tcwtech.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Another RV-10 painted |
> Subject: RV10-List:
> From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
>
> Congrats Looks totally awesome.Can you give us a few details on what you did
for prep.... what they did for prep - wheel pants on/off
> cowling on/off .... flight controls..... and costs
For prep of all of the fiberglas surfaces, I did the Van's procedure of mixing
50-50 West System epoxy and acetone, squeegied into the pinholes with a single
edge razor blade. Then sanded smooth, followed a coat of UV SmoothPrime applied
via roller and sanded back to a smooth surface. Lots of sanding but it was
a very smooth finish on the fiberglas parts as delivered to them.
They were happy with my fiberglas prep work, but the other thing I had done was
attempt to paint the thing myself with an HVLP setup, and I had already put epoxy
primer and polyurethane topcoat on all of the control surfaces, and they
had to strip that back to bare metal. Live and learn...
This was a four color paint job (white and dark blue base coats in JetGlo and light
blue and desert tan accents in AcrylGlo), for which their basic bid was $7000.
They credited me $500 for the fiberglas prep they didn't have to do, and
charged me $500 for stripping the already painted control surfaces.
They removed all fairings, cowl, spinner and control surfaces and re-installed
them -- I didn't have to do any of that.
> How long was it in their shop. Did they let you work there.
They said it would normally be about 3 weeks for a four color paint job, but I
happened to deliver the plane on the first day of deer hunting season (hey, it
*is* Arkansas :-) ), and both Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays fell during
the time it was in their shop, so I ended up picking up the plane the weekend
after Christmas and it totaled a little over 4 weeks. All in all, it was fine
with me since I was out of town on the west coast during the holidays anyway
and in no rush.
They would have let me work there, but as noted above they took over the whole
project and I didn't have to do anything other than an acceptance inspection on
picking it up.
It isn't a showplane quality paint job with exquisite details and a lustrous clearcoat,
but I wasn't really looking for that. No runs or sags anywhere and a
great, deep wet-look finish on all surfaces and I am quite happy with the cost-benefit
and ease of dropping the plane off, selecting the colors in real time
with them, and then just picking up the finished product. The non-metallic
colors will also be easy to maintain and touch-up over time.
Hope this helps,
-Dan Masys
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Door Fit - Rabbit w/o pictures |
Hi Richard,
Last weekend I spent two hours marking my doors with a scribe. I first scri
bed a line on the canopy by using the height of the canopy curve(door cut o
ut)as a guide and then used this same distance to trace the line back onto
the doors as they are mounted on the canopy. I did the 45 degree bevel all
the way around and it took a total of another 7.5 hours of taking the door
on and off to perfect the fit. That's one door. Interestingly, my original
scribe line was right on.
The entire time I was doing this I was thinking about you previous post abo
ut the rabbet.
Two questions I have are:
Did the .125" rabbet stay in the curve of the canopy which is made of resin
and microfiber/flow mix, in essense not into glass fiber?
Do the hinges articulate true enough that the door closes inside your rabbe
t with out it creaping around with each closure and if so, what is the gap
distance you created between the door and the canopy. Is the gap distance s
maller than the rabbet width so that if there is any door creap, there is n
ot open air gap?
Thanks,
John G.
r Fit - Rabbit w/o picturesDate: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:44:46 -0400
John,
We used a router with a "rabbeting bit"
Amana Tool # 49340, www.amanatool.com, David got it a local tool store tha
t sells to the cabinet trade.
The carbide flute was 1.375 dia, the guide bearing was 1.125 dia to produce
a .125 rabbit. The depth was set to the thickness of the door edge.
See remarks in the email response below, Mar 14 from me.
Richard Reynolds
March 14, 2008 reply from Richard Reynolds
John,
We put a 1/8 square rabbit in the canopy door frame. it made the door very
easy to fit. Make it deep enough for the thickest part of the door. Be care
ful when trimming the canopy frame in way of the aluminum fuselage frame.
Please note!
After trimming the door to the factory scribe lines, take equal amounts off
the forward and aft edges. The temptation is after getting one edge to fit
, removing the remainder from the other edge. DON'T, because it makes the i
nside "jam" unequal. (Ask me how I know)
Also, the top of the canopy door frame really does not need the rabbit, The
top edge of the door WILL require a bevel to open properly!
Richard Reynolds
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Getting Closer (G900X Panel) |
| From: | "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com> |
Only item missing is the TT Sorcerer AP... Oh and the rest of the
plane...:
Robin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bruce breckenridge" <bbreckenridge(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Getting Closer (G900X Panel) |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Digiflight 2.5" round hole cutout dimensions? |
| From: | "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> |
Hey all -
Does anyone have a cad drawing of the cutout for the round version of
the Digiflight2? or the exact dimensions? I'm trying to lay out my
panel, and there's no drawing in the Trutrak documentation that I could
find. anyone?
thanks
cj
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Digiflight 2.5" round hole cutout dimensions? |
Chris,
It is a standard 2.25" instrument hole. A 2.25" circle with a 1.85"
concentric square with screw holes centered at the 4 corners of the
square.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Mar 18, 2008, at 11:28 PM, Chris Johnston wrote:
> Hey all -
>
> Does anyone have a cad drawing of the cutout for the round version
> of the Digiflight2? or the exact dimensions? I'm trying to lay out
> my panel, and there's no drawing in the Trutrak documentation that I
> could find. anyone?
>
> thanks
>
> cj
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pressure problems |
I'm pretty sure mine are, per plans....but I don't know how
much real ram air pressure is generated there.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
David McNeill wrote:
> By breather tubes , are you referring to the vent lines? If so do you
> have the tips of the vent lines cut diagonally and facing forward. This
> is intened to provide a positve "ram" pressure to the vent lines if they
> contain fuel.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pressure problems |
I have not, but I've rarely landed with less than 5 or 6 gallons in
a tank, and when the fuel is under 10 gal I treat it like my old
sundowner than was placarded against extended slips for the same
reason.....I just fly crabbed in for those approaches.
I've also done some slips with and without flaps and not seen
issues...while we're talking about slips.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
David McNeill wrote:
> Another thought. Anybody experienced engine failure in an extended slip
> or steep turn into the selected tank. Given that the fuel pickup is on
> the inboard end the selected tank could unport considering the fuel level.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Thyssen <jump2(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Gotchya |
Gary with your JPI did you have just four wires going to your fuel sending units
from the 950 or did you have a little box coming out with the four wires.
Just wondering I had another box converting resistance to voltage.
Thanks
Patrick Thyssen
gary wrote:
I have been fighting communication problems between JPI engine monitor and
my EFIS. It would not show my fuel gauge. After much frustration we
discovered that the software that was shipped with the JPI monitor was
flawed and did not have the appropriate place to indicate the fuel tanks.
After going on line and downloading the newest software all is well.
So those of you with JPI stuff put this in the memory banks for when you get
to programming stuff. Several wasted weeks and many wasted hours.
Gary
40274
DAR Inspection Scheduled.
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> *
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>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel Sender Gotchya |
I had 3 wires coming out of the JPI, L tank, R tank, and ground going
directly to the Resistive units. I did have the correct "resistive" box in
the ez-config, but my original software for ez-config did not let me check a
left and right tank configuration. Hope that makes sense.
Gary
40274
DAR Inspection Scheduled
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Thyssen
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Sender Gotchya
Gary with your JPI did you have just four wires going to your fuel sending
units from the 950 or did you have a little box coming out with the four
wires.
Just wondering I had another box converting resistance to voltage.
Thanks
Patrick Thyssen
gary wrote:
I have been fighting communication problems between JPI engine monitor and
my EFIS. It would not show my fuel gauge. After much frustration we
discovered that the software that was shipped with the JPI monitor was
flawed and did not have the appropriate place to indicate the fuel tanks.
After going on line and downloading the newest software all is well.
So those of you with JPI stuff put this in the memory banks for when you get
to programming stuff. Several wasted weeks and many wasted hours.
Gary
40274
DAR Inspection Scheduled.
>>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel pressure problems |
Depending on angle and cut of the vent it seems that a low pressure area
could be created at the vent entrance
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 4:18 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
I'm pretty sure mine are, per plans....but I don't know how much real ram
air pressure is generated there.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
David McNeill wrote:
> By breather tubes , are you referring to the vent lines? If so do you
> have the tips of the vent lines cut diagonally and facing forward.
> This is intened to provide a positve "ram" pressure to the vent lines
> if they contain fuel.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel Sender Gotchya |
One other gotcha on the resistance units from Vans. If , when bending the
hangar for the float, the bend going through the sender is slightly more
than 90, it can "hang in the empty position. I first thought I had a
defective sender even though resistance changed. I submerged the float in a
bucket of gasoline and the float hung.. a slight rebend fixed the problem.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 5:22 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Sender Gotchya
I had 3 wires coming out of the JPI, L tank, R tank, and ground going
directly to the Resistive units. I did have the correct "resistive" box in
the ez-config, but my original software for ez-config did not let me check a
left and right tank configuration. Hope that makes sense.
Gary
40274
DAR Inspection Scheduled
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Thyssen
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Sender Gotchya
Gary with your JPI did you have just four wires going to your fuel sending
units from the 950 or did you have a little box coming out with the four
wires.
Just wondering I had another box converting resistance to voltage.
Thanks
Patrick Thyssen
gary wrote:
I have been fighting communication problems between JPI engine monitor and
my EFIS. It would not show my fuel gauge. After much frustration we
discovered that the software that was shipped with the JPI monitor was
flawed and did not have the appropriate place to indicate the fuel tanks.
After going on line and downloading the newest software all is well.
So those of you with JPI stuff put this in the memory banks for when you get
to programming stuff. Several wasted weeks and many wasted hours.
Gary
40274
DAR Inspection Scheduled.
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http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel pressure problems |
One other thing I have done is drill a small (50) hole in the vent line
inside the fairing. This does not affect the tam pressure much and provides
an alternate vent in case of icing. Since the caps are not vented, an icing
of the forward facing vent line could close the vent and result in fuel
starvation and/or deformed tank.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 6:43 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
Depending on angle and cut of the vent it seems that a low pressure area
could be created at the vent entrance
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 4:18 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
I'm pretty sure mine are, per plans....but I don't know how much real ram
air pressure is generated there.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
David McNeill wrote:
> By breather tubes , are you referring to the vent lines? If so do you
> have the tips of the vent lines cut diagonally and facing forward.
> This is intened to provide a positve "ram" pressure to the vent lines
> if they contain fuel.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam <sam(at)fr8dog.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pressure problems |
Yes, the angle would be important. That's another thing I could check on
the PA32.
David McNeill wrote:
>
> Depending on angle and cut of the vent it seems that a low pressure area
> could be created at the vent entrance
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 4:18 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
>
>
> I'm pretty sure mine are, per plans....but I don't know how much real ram
> air pressure is generated there.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
>
> David McNeill wrote:
>
>> By breather tubes , are you referring to the vent lines? If so do you
>> have the tips of the vent lines cut diagonally and facing forward.
>> This is intened to provide a positve "ram" pressure to the vent lines
>> if they contain fuel.
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam <sam(at)fr8dog.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pressure problems |
I was in light icing on Sunday, coming back from the Cayman Islands, and
that was the first thing that crossed my mine. I wasn't to worried about
the wing, but that little cold soaked 1/4 vent tube, had my stomach in
knots!
David McNeill wrote:
>
> One other thing I have done is drill a small (50) hole in the vent line
> inside the fairing. This does not affect the tam pressure much and provides
> an alternate vent in case of icing. Since the caps are not vented, an icing
> of the forward facing vent line could close the vent and result in fuel
> starvation and/or deformed tank.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 6:43 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
>
>
> Depending on angle and cut of the vent it seems that a low pressure area
> could be created at the vent entrance
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 4:18 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
>
>
> I'm pretty sure mine are, per plans....but I don't know how much real ram
> air pressure is generated there.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
>
> David McNeill wrote:
>
>> By breather tubes , are you referring to the vent lines? If so do you
>> have the tips of the vent lines cut diagonally and facing forward.
>> This is intened to provide a positve "ram" pressure to the vent lines
>> if they contain fuel.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel pressure problems |
I was debating on whether or not to put the hole in the vent tubes because
and I had everything buttoned up and ready for inspection. I was going
through a final inspection I noted that I had the tubes on the wrong sides
and the opening was pointing backwards. So since I had to pull them anyway
I put the hole in. I am hoping I will never need the holes......no icing.
I wonder how much fuel I would have vented with the tubes in
backwards.....since it is a sealed system I don't think it would have been
much.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 7:59 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
One other thing I have done is drill a small (50) hole in the vent line
inside the fairing. This does not affect the tam pressure much and provides
an alternate vent in case of icing. Since the caps are not vented, an icing
of the forward facing vent line could close the vent and result in fuel
starvation and/or deformed tank.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 6:43 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
Depending on angle and cut of the vent it seems that a low pressure area
could be created at the vent entrance
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 4:18 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
I'm pretty sure mine are, per plans....but I don't know how much real ram
air pressure is generated there.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
David McNeill wrote:
> By breather tubes , are you referring to the vent lines? If so do you
> have the tips of the vent lines cut diagonally and facing forward.
> This is intened to provide a positve "ram" pressure to the vent lines
> if they contain fuel.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel pressure problems |
I think I may have solved his problem
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 7:22 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
I was in light icing on Sunday, coming back from the Cayman Islands, and
that was the first thing that crossed my mine. I wasn't to worried about the
wing, but that little cold soaked 1/4 vent tube, had my stomach in knots!
David McNeill wrote:
One other thing I have done is drill a small (50) hole in the vent line
inside the fairing. This does not affect the tam pressure much and provides
an alternate vent in case of icing. Since the caps are not vented, an icing
of the forward facing vent line could close the vent and result in fuel
starvation and/or deformed tank.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 6:43 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
Depending on angle and cut of the vent it seems that a low pressure area
could be created at the vent entrance
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 4:18 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
I'm pretty sure mine are, per plans....but I don't know how much real ram
air pressure is generated there.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
David McNeill wrote:
By breather tubes , are you referring to the vent lines? If so do you
have the tips of the vent lines cut diagonally and facing forward.
This is intened to provide a positve "ram" pressure to the vent lines
if they contain fuel.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel pressure problems |
Probably not much after the internal tube end got above the fuel level;
however it would still be possible to vent after a turn that immersed the
internal tube end near the outboard edge. I have seen fuel venting in my
Glastar in a moderate turn after takeoff with all tanks to the filler neck.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 7:32 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
I was debating on whether or not to put the hole in the vent tubes because
and I had everything buttoned up and ready for inspection. I was going
through a final inspection I noted that I had the tubes on the wrong sides
and the opening was pointing backwards. So since I had to pull them anyway
I put the hole in. I am hoping I will never need the holes......no icing.
I wonder how much fuel I would have vented with the tubes in
backwards.....since it is a sealed system I don't think it would have been
much.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 7:59 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
One other thing I have done is drill a small (50) hole in the vent line
inside the fairing. This does not affect the tam pressure much and provides
an alternate vent in case of icing. Since the caps are not vented, an icing
of the forward facing vent line could close the vent and result in fuel
starvation and/or deformed tank.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 6:43 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
Depending on angle and cut of the vent it seems that a low pressure area
could be created at the vent entrance
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 4:18 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
I'm pretty sure mine are, per plans....but I don't know how much real ram
air pressure is generated there.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
David McNeill wrote:
> By breather tubes , are you referring to the vent lines? If so do you
> have the tips of the vent lines cut diagonally and facing forward.
> This is intened to provide a positve "ram" pressure to the vent lines
> if they contain fuel.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Neg Battery Cable Routing |
The advantage to running the ground cable forward is that it will
eliminate ground loops and it gives a efficient path from the starter
ground back to the battery.
The negatives are well stated by Deems.
I would like some feed back from those that have grounded the battery
locally. How is it working? Are you having any issues with ground loops?
Larry Rosen
#356
orchidman wrote:
>
>
> Deems Davis wrote:
>
>> ...For aircraft like the RV-10 where the
>> standard battery mount position is in the rear of the aircraft. Bob saw
>> no problems in grounding the batteries locally (i.e. to the airframe at
>> the battery location) and avoiding the weight, expense and complexity of
>> running the additional heavy cable forward to the common firewall ground.
>>
>
> Bob is located only about 2 1/2 hours away but I have never attended his seminar.
I have his books.
> I know there are people flying that have done both and I am trying to see which
might be better and any problems some might have had with either approach.
> Are there any advantages or needs to having a Neg cable going to the firewall
in the -10?
>
> --------
> Gary Blankenbiller
> RV10 - # 40674
> Fuselage SB
> (N410GB reserved)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170739#170739
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill DeRouchey <billderou(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Muffler Backfire turning base to final |
Flying RV10s-
I have a consistent problem of backfiring through the mufflers as I come off
the throttle. Don't think it is dangerous but scares the passengers.
If I reduce the throttle slowly then it does not backfire. There is no exhaust
gasket leak at the heads. Believe the idle mixture is adjusted correctly. Originally,
I thought the joints in the exhaust pipes were leaking and would seal
with carbon - but it has not happened in 170 hours.
Anyone with a similar problem? Any suggested solutions?
Thanks,
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, flying with a few pops now and then
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gerry Filby" <gerf(at)gerf.com> |
| Subject: | Muffler Backfire turning base to final |
Have the same problem on my RV-9 (IO-320 AFP, Injection, Hartzell constant
speed) particularly if the engine is windmilling fast and I chop the
throttle all the way out. I've heard its common and the solution is to
reduce speed gradually so that you're not chopping throttle at high RPM.
Also reduce throttle gradually, but it sounds like you're already doing that
...
g
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill DeRouchey
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 12:09 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Muffler Backfire turning base to final
Flying RV10s-
I have a consistent problem of backfiring through the mufflers as I come off
the throttle. Don't think it is dangerous but scares the passengers.
If I reduce the throttle slowly then it does not backfire. There is no
exhaust gasket leak at the heads. Believe the idle mixture is adjusted
correctly. Originally, I thought the joints in the exhaust pipes were
leaking and would seal with carbon - but it has not happened in 170 hours.
Anyone with a similar problem? Any suggested solutions?
Thanks,
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, flying with a few pops now and then
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Neg Battery Cable Routing |
For me the decision was fairly easy. Big engine, lot's of cold weather time.
Any advantage to cold starting is welcomed for me. If I still lived in Texas
I probably wouldn't worry much about grounding back at the battery mount. I'll
be through bolting the neg cable at the firewall and using that point as the
airframe ground and the point for all the avionics up front. I'm also using
#2 welding cable all the way to the starter. Might be overkill but I'll never
have to worry about if the cable from the battery to the starter is the problem
when it won't turn over.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Neg Battery Cable Routing
The advantage to running the ground cable forward is that it will
eliminate ground loops and it gives a efficient path from the starter
ground back to the battery.
The negatives are well stated by Deems.
I would like some feed back from those that have grounded the battery
locally. How is it working? Are you having any issues with ground loops?
Larry Rosen
#356
orchidman wrote:
>
>
> Deems Davis wrote:
>
>> ...For aircraft like the RV-10 where the
>> standard battery mount position is in the rear of the aircraft. Bob saw
>> no problems in grounding the batteries locally (i.e. to the airframe at
>> the battery location) and avoiding the weight, expense and complexity of
>> running the additional heavy cable forward to the common firewall ground.
>>
>
> Bob is located only about 2 1/2 hours away but I have never attended his seminar.
I have his books.
> I know there are people flying that have done both and I am trying to see which
might be better and any problems some might have had with either approach.
> Are there any advantages or needs to having a Neg cable going to the firewall
in the -10?
>
> --------
> Gary Blankenbiller
> RV10 - # 40674
> Fuselage SB
> (N410GB reserved)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170739#170739
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Muffler Backfire turning base to final |
In my experience your mixture is set too lean on the fuel servo. Enrich it
by a turn or turn and a half and see if that helps.
Gary
40274
DAR Inspection scheduled
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry Filby
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 3:31 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Muffler Backfire turning base to final
Have the same problem on my RV-9 (IO-320 AFP, Injection, Hartzell constant
speed) particularly if the engine is windmilling fast and I chop the
throttle all the way out. I've heard its common and the solution is to
reduce speed gradually so that you're not chopping throttle at high RPM.
Also reduce throttle gradually, but it sounds like you're already doing that
...
g
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill DeRouchey
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 12:09 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Muffler Backfire turning base to final
Flying RV10s-
I have a consistent problem of backfiring through the mufflers as I come off
the throttle. Don't think it is dangerous but scares the passengers.
If I reduce the throttle slowly then it does not backfire. There is no
exhaust gasket leak at the heads. Believe the idle mixture is adjusted
correctly. Originally, I thought the joints in the exhaust pipes were
leaking and would seal with carbon - but it has not happened in 170 hours.
Anyone with a similar problem? Any suggested solutions?
Thanks,
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, flying with a few pops now and then
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Muffler Backfire turning base to final |
Idle mixture too lean. You need to turn 650-700 RPM and have a MP of
11-12. Adjust your mixture on the ground to meet this spec. I had
the same problem.
Rob.
On Mar 19, 2008, at 3:09 PM, Bill DeRouchey wrote:
> Flying RV10s-
> I have a consistent problem of backfiring through the mufflers as I
> come off the throttle. Don't think it is dangerous but scares the
> passengers.
>
> If I reduce the throttle slowly then it does not backfire. There is
> no exhaust gasket leak at the heads. Believe the idle mixture is
> adjusted correctly. Originally, I thought the joints in the exhaust
> pipes were leaking and would seal with carbon - but it has not
> happened in 170 hours.
>
> Anyone with a similar problem? Any suggested solutions?
>
> Thanks,
> Bill DeRouchey
> N939SB, flying with a few pops now and then
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Vent lines (was fuel pressure problems) |
On my RV-8A I transitioned the =BC=94 vent tubing to 3/8=94 about 6=94
before
exiting the bottom of the fuselage. I also epoxied a piece of aluminum
screen on the bevel end cut that faces into the wind. I read someplace
that
a few RVs had problems with mud dabbers plugging up the vent line.
I=92ll do
the same on the RV-10.
Carl Froehlich
RV8A (400 hrs)
RV-10 (wings)
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
I was in light icing on Sunday, coming back from the Cayman Islands, and
that was the first thing that crossed my mine. I wasn't to worried about
the
wing, but that little cold soaked 1/4 vent tube, had my stomach in
knots!
David McNeill wrote:
One other thing I have done is drill a small (50) hole in the vent line
inside the fairing. This does not affect the tam pressure much and
provides
an alternate vent in case of icing. Since the caps are not vented, an
icing
of the forward facing vent line could close the vent and result in fuel
starvation and/or deformed tank.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 6:43 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
Depending on angle and cut of the vent it seems that a low pressure area
could be created at the vent entrance
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 4:18 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
I'm pretty sure mine are, per plans....but I don't know how much real
ram
air pressure is generated there.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
David McNeill wrote:
By breather tubes , are you referring to the vent lines? If so do you
have the tips of the vent lines cut diagonally and facing forward.
This is intened to provide a positve "ram" pressure to the vent lines
if they contain fuel.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam <sam(at)fr8dog.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vent lines (was fuel pressure problems) |
Well, I just got back from the hangar, and I'm embarrassed to say, but I
didn't finish the vents before they were installed. Thy were not only
straight cut but about an inch or more to long. They are standard now
though, except for the right one, and I added a vent inside the faring
just in case of an inadvertent icing encounter.We'll see how that works
out on the next test flight. Just to low of a ceiling to fly today.
Sam
Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> On my RV-8A I transitioned the " vent tubing to 3/8" about 6" before
> exiting the bottom of the fuselage. I also epoxied a piece of
> aluminum screen on the bevel end cut that faces into the wind. I read
> someplace that a few RVs had problems with mud dabbers plugging up the
> vent line. I'll do the same on the RV-10.
>
>
>
> Carl Froehlich
>
> RV8A (400 hrs)
>
> RV-10 (wings)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:22 AM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
>
>
>
> I was in light icing on Sunday, coming back from the Cayman Islands,
> and that was the first thing that crossed my mine. I wasn't to worried
> about the wing, but that little cold soaked 1/4 vent tube, had my
> stomach in knots!
>
> David McNeill wrote:
>
>
> One other thing I have done is drill a small (50) hole in the vent line
> inside the fairing. This does not affect the tam pressure much and provides
> an alternate vent in case of icing. Since the caps are not vented, an icing
> of the forward facing vent line could close the vent and result in fuel
> starvation and/or deformed tank.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 6:43 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
>
>
> Depending on angle and cut of the vent it seems that a low pressure area
> could be created at the vent entrance
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 4:18 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
>
>
> I'm pretty sure mine are, per plans....but I don't know how much real ram
> air pressure is generated there.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
>
> David McNeill wrote:
>
>> By breather tubes , are you referring to the vent lines? If so do you
>> have the tips of the vent lines cut diagonally and facing forward.
>> This is intened to provide a positve "ram" pressure to the vent lines
>> if they contain fuel.
>>
>>
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> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> **
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Neg Battery Cable Routing |
Have you considered two Odyssey batteries in parallel with two masters? My
setup can dump both batteries into the starter 1200A+ to start and 500a for
a minute or so.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 12:32 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Neg Battery Cable Routing
-->
For me the decision was fairly easy. Big engine, lot's of cold weather
time. Any advantage to cold starting is welcomed for me. If I still lived
in Texas I probably wouldn't worry much about grounding back at the battery
mount. I'll be through bolting the neg cable at the firewall and using that
point as the airframe ground and the point for all the avionics up front.
I'm also using #2 welding cable all the way to the starter. Might be
overkill but I'll never have to worry about if the cable from the battery to
the starter is the problem when it won't turn over.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Neg Battery Cable Routing
The advantage to running the ground cable forward is that it will eliminate
ground loops and it gives a efficient path from the starter ground back to
the battery.
The negatives are well stated by Deems.
I would like some feed back from those that have grounded the battery
locally. How is it working? Are you having any issues with ground loops?
Larry Rosen
#356
orchidman wrote:
>
>
> Deems Davis wrote:
>
>> ...For aircraft like the RV-10 where the standard battery mount
>> position is in the rear of the aircraft. Bob saw no problems in
>> grounding the batteries locally (i.e. to the airframe at the battery
>> location) and avoiding the weight, expense and complexity of running
>> the additional heavy cable forward to the common firewall ground.
>>
>
> Bob is located only about 2 1/2 hours away but I have never attended his
seminar. I have his books.
> I know there are people flying that have done both and I am trying to see
which might be better and any problems some might have had with either
approach.
> Are there any advantages or needs to having a Neg cable going to the
firewall in the -10?
>
> --------
> Gary Blankenbiller
> RV10 - # 40674
> Fuselage SB
> (N410GB reserved)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170739#170739
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Modular panel CAD drawing? |
| From: | "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> |
Hey all -
more drawing questions! Does anyone know where to get a CAD drawing of
the modular panel that Stein sells? I'm trying to lay out this panel,
and I can't find this drawing anywhere. anyone? I just don't think I
can measure the thing accurately enough to draw it with the precision
that I need.
cj
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Neg Battery Cable Routing |
| From: | "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com> |
dlm46007(at)cox.net wrote:
> Have you considered two Odyssey batteries in parallel with two masters? My
> setup can dump both batteries into the starter 1200A+ to start and 500a for a
minute or so. --
I plan on Van's battery and Tim's Aux/Esen batteries. After the appreciated comments
here and talking to Stein, it looks like I will be going straight from
the battery to the firewall where I will single point 'ground' both sets of batteries
to the plane and from there to everything else.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Fuselage SB
(N410GB reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171183#171183
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Neg Battery Cable Routing |
Yep, also something I'm doing and another reason for using #2. :)
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 6:34 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Neg Battery Cable Routing
Have you considered two Odyssey batteries in parallel with two masters? My
setup can dump both batteries into the starter 1200A+ to start and 500a for
a minute or so.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 12:32 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Neg Battery Cable Routing
-->
For me the decision was fairly easy. Big engine, lot's of cold weather
time. Any advantage to cold starting is welcomed for me. If I still lived
in Texas I probably wouldn't worry much about grounding back at the battery
mount. I'll be through bolting the neg cable at the firewall and using that
point as the airframe ground and the point for all the avionics up front.
I'm also using #2 welding cable all the way to the starter. Might be
overkill but I'll never have to worry about if the cable from the battery to
the starter is the problem when it won't turn over.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Neg Battery Cable Routing
The advantage to running the ground cable forward is that it will eliminate
ground loops and it gives a efficient path from the starter ground back to
the battery.
The negatives are well stated by Deems.
I would like some feed back from those that have grounded the battery
locally. How is it working? Are you having any issues with ground loops?
Larry Rosen
#356
orchidman wrote:
>
>
> Deems Davis wrote:
>
>> ...For aircraft like the RV-10 where the standard battery mount
>> position is in the rear of the aircraft. Bob saw no problems in
>> grounding the batteries locally (i.e. to the airframe at the battery
>> location) and avoiding the weight, expense and complexity of running
>> the additional heavy cable forward to the common firewall ground.
>>
>
> Bob is located only about 2 1/2 hours away but I have never attended his
seminar. I have his books.
> I know there are people flying that have done both and I am trying to see
which might be better and any problems some might have had with either
approach.
> Are there any advantages or needs to having a Neg cable going to the
firewall in the -10?
>
> --------
> Gary Blankenbiller
> RV10 - # 40674
> Fuselage SB
> (N410GB reserved)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170739#170739
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Neg Battery Cable Routing |
While it is probably way overkill I'm still considering adding a third battery,
similar to Tim's method, that can supply the dual lightspeeds regardless of the
state of the two main batteries. The two main batteries will be controlled
via two masters but the backup battery would be only wired to the Lightspeeds.
Basically it is the standard configuration for dual lightspeeds. I'm essentially
treating the two main batteries as one big one rather than adding the complexity
of a split buss or a single big battery. But I haven't made my final decisions
on the busing yet.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 6:30 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Neg Battery Cable Routing
dlm46007(at)cox.net wrote:
> Have you considered two Odyssey batteries in parallel with two masters? My
> setup can dump both batteries into the starter 1200A+ to start and 500a for a
minute or so. --
I plan on Van's battery and Tim's Aux/Esen batteries. After the appreciated comments
here and talking to Stein, it looks like I will be going straight from
the battery to the firewall where I will single point 'ground' both sets of batteries
to the plane and from there to everything else.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Fuselage SB
(N410GB reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171183#171183
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Blue LEDs to reset tired truckers' body clocks |
Interesting article that has direct implications to how we light our cockpi
ts... Granted they are talking about fairly bright light but still worth c
onsidering...
http://technology.newscientist.com/article/dn13491-blue-leds-to-reset-tired
-truckers-body-clocks.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: second power source |
On my particular EFIS, the Chelton the requirement is:
8-34VDC / 32 watts
The WSI receiver is:
10-32 Volts DC @ 0.6 Amp @ 14VDC
One of the other ARINC components is:
10Vdc 32Vdc operational @ .1 Amp maximum at 28 VDC
The OP Tech system is:
10VDC to 32VDC Input current 5.8 Amps at 12 VDC typical
Input power 70 Watts typical
The GRT system is:
Power: 12 VDC to 28 VDC 1.3 amps
The GRT EIS is:
9-18 Vdc, .1 amps
So, out of those particular systems, the Chelton that I
have has actually the lowest input voltage spec and a
lower current requirement than some of the others, and
yet if I cranked my engine with the screens on the main
bus, they definitely will reboot. It takes a couple of
minutes for a satellite datalink for Wx to link up, so
if you were prepping for an IFR departure and wanted to get
the actual weather picture before you fired up the engine,
you'd really be best off having it be able to boot and
stay alive during the time you have to crank the engine...
so you can sit on the ramp with the engine off and get
your Wx together. I also have a non-mandatory, but highly
recommended 2:00 countdown timer after the self-tests are
finished that allow the heaters in the AHRS to bring the
Air data unit to a stable temp and ensure that all the
sensors are ready for optimum performance. All of these
things can be a bit of a pain if you want to have any
of it operational during engine crank, as the voltage
drop gets pretty large on crank with todays high draw
starters.
Nothing is written in stone though, and everyone can do
what they feel they want to, but I just find tons of
utility out of a 2nd battery.
To continue to answer the questions, yeah, some parts of
the system, like the GRT EIS I have, are very quick to
boot, but have less quality of display. But some take
2 or 3 minutes to be fully ready to go. It all depends
on the equipment...and with the Chelton stuff they tend to
favor the extreme of reliability and accuracy, rather
than just a quick and dirty boot. I'm sure there are
some EFIS's that take much less time, but it would
come at the expense of some of the stabilization or
self testing. So it really depends on if you want to
fly IFR, if you want to have full engine gauges during start,
and of course what all the various equipment choices are
that the person has. There isn't really a single best
way to do it, but there will be lots of systems that will
be well served by aux batteries.
Your point about the *small* battery is a good one. To just
keep a couple of minor items from dropping out, it wouldn't
take much of a battery. A small one that is smaller than
a brick would do nicely for that simple task. For me, I
decided that if I was going to go single-alternator, I could
do that very comfortably if I had an aux battery system that
would power my eBus items for a full hour. So, I went
that route....a good sized main battery that I can use
'til it's dead, and a "use during cranking" aux battery
that can also serve to keep all of my eBus items alive
for an hour after I go lights-out on my "disposable"
equipment.
I'll throw one other thing out there just for the hell of it
while I'm at it...since I just ran into someone with the opposite
opinion last weekend...who flies my same type of EFIS.
When it comes to what to put on my eBus, I included my EFIS and
AHRS, along with one NavCom (the integrated one). IMHO, since
I have the juice to drive it for an hour, I look at it this way...
If I have an alternator failure in the clouds, the last thing
I want to do is get rid of my EFIS. Keeping an EFIS like mine
alive is probably the absolutely FASTEST way for me to get
on the ground. An RV-10 can fly a lot of miles and make an
on-airport landing really easily, if you can quickly and
successfully fly an approach.
The other guy's opinion differed....he figured that if he
"lost that stuff" that he may as well go all to backups
and fly the hard way. Well, I had a hard time with that
because losing an alternator shouldn't force you into
losing your EFIS...now you have to go with minimalistic
round gauges and get home...just when you already have a
high stress situation. He didn't have his EFIS on the
eBus. I didn't like that idea....you got the tools,
you may as well use them. My EFIS PFD draws 3A max.
the AHRS much less. If there were ANYTHING I'd want to
keep, it would be those 2 items. I just don't think the guy
thought it though as to what types of failures he expected,
and when he expected to have them. Perhaps in his mind,
the EFIS failure was inevitable if the Alternator died,
or he wasn't separating the 2 events in his mind. Oh well,
we all make our own choices, so I wasn't about to beat
anyone up for it. It's just a philosophy and it's one that
the builder needs to think through.
Sorry to ramble....for the first time in a while I felt
like typing a bit more.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
linn Walters wrote:
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
>
>>
>> Sorry Linn, but the EFIS world really changes the paradigm a bit
>> on what usefulness a 2nd battery can be. Most EFIS systems
>> won't stay running while you crank an engine, and most EFIS
>> systems take a little time to come up to provide datalink
>> weather and other services, and to just do thorough self-tests
>> and the normal routine boot process.
>
> No apology (was it??) necessary. I see what you mean. As part of my
> education ..... never had an efis ...... can you give me the voltage
> range and current draw from your efis owners manual??
>
> Does it take longer for the efis to come online than for a GPS??? Is
> there a substantial delay before the engine parameters are
> available??? Can you give me a guesstimate of the time???
>
>> You can shortcut the boot, but it's at the expense of self-tests and
>> sensor accuracies.
>
> Really wouldn't want to do that ..... inaccurate info is useless!!!
>
>> Having a 2nd battery there to get things running
>> pre-start, so you have a display of all engine parameters,
>> and everything else, is a great thing. No, it's not a 100%
>> necessary thing, but it is a whole different situation than
>> the panels common 5 or more years ago. The electronic ignition
>> adds one more place to use a 2nd battery...but in my install
>> I combined the function and just have 2....I didn't go to
>> 3. 2 though, that will be very common with EFIS based installs.
>
> OK, then it appears that a small battery (less weight) might fit the
> application??? It might also run the essential buss for a while. Just
> musing.
> Thanks for the point of view.
> Linn
>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | second power source |
| From: | "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com> |
I totally agree here with what Tim is saying about what you pick to be
on your Ebus for minimal draw. With a comprehensive EFIS like the
chelton or similar, I would throw every electron I had in my battery at
that in the event of an alternator failure, because, as Tim said, you
can keep flying with a relatively low stress level. Plus, if you
regularly fly behind a Chelton, those old-school round gauge IFR skills
are gonna be pretty rusty :)...
Another data point that I'd like to make here with respect to EFIS
systems rebooting during engine cranking - if you get one that has an
internal battery built in, it won't reboot during cranking.
I got an AF3400 to be an engine monitor, ended up getting the
Engine/EFIS system, because, well why not? And I ordered it with the
internal battery that'll keep it lit for about an hour by itself. Many
other things make it very cool too, but the internal battery is a good
bonus.
Cj
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: second power source
On my particular EFIS, the Chelton the requirement is:
8-34VDC / 32 watts
The WSI receiver is:
10-32 Volts DC @ 0.6 Amp @ 14VDC
One of the other ARINC components is:
10Vdc - 32Vdc operational @ .1 Amp maximum at 28 VDC
The OP Tech system is:
10VDC to 32VDC Input current 5.8 Amps at 12 VDC typical
Input power 70 Watts typical
The GRT system is:
Power: 12 VDC to 28 VDC 1.3 amps
The GRT EIS is:
9-18 Vdc, .1 amps
So, out of those particular systems, the Chelton that I
have has actually the lowest input voltage spec and a
lower current requirement than some of the others, and
yet if I cranked my engine with the screens on the main
bus, they definitely will reboot. It takes a couple of
minutes for a satellite datalink for Wx to link up, so
if you were prepping for an IFR departure and wanted to get
the actual weather picture before you fired up the engine,
you'd really be best off having it be able to boot and
stay alive during the time you have to crank the engine...
so you can sit on the ramp with the engine off and get
your Wx together. I also have a non-mandatory, but highly
recommended 2:00 countdown timer after the self-tests are
finished that allow the heaters in the AHRS to bring the
Air data unit to a stable temp and ensure that all the
sensors are ready for optimum performance. All of these
things can be a bit of a pain if you want to have any
of it operational during engine crank, as the voltage
drop gets pretty large on crank with todays high draw
starters.
Nothing is written in stone though, and everyone can do
what they feel they want to, but I just find tons of
utility out of a 2nd battery.
To continue to answer the questions, yeah, some parts of
the system, like the GRT EIS I have, are very quick to
boot, but have less quality of display. But some take
2 or 3 minutes to be fully ready to go. It all depends
on the equipment...and with the Chelton stuff they tend to
favor the extreme of reliability and accuracy, rather
than just a quick and dirty boot. I'm sure there are
some EFIS's that take much less time, but it would
come at the expense of some of the stabilization or
self testing. So it really depends on if you want to
fly IFR, if you want to have full engine gauges during start,
and of course what all the various equipment choices are
that the person has. There isn't really a single best
way to do it, but there will be lots of systems that will
be well served by aux batteries.
Your point about the *small* battery is a good one. To just
keep a couple of minor items from dropping out, it wouldn't
take much of a battery. A small one that is smaller than
a brick would do nicely for that simple task. For me, I
decided that if I was going to go single-alternator, I could
do that very comfortably if I had an aux battery system that
would power my eBus items for a full hour. So, I went
that route....a good sized main battery that I can use
'til it's dead, and a "use during cranking" aux battery
that can also serve to keep all of my eBus items alive
for an hour after I go lights-out on my "disposable"
equipment.
I'll throw one other thing out there just for the hell of it
while I'm at it...since I just ran into someone with the opposite
opinion last weekend...who flies my same type of EFIS.
When it comes to what to put on my eBus, I included my EFIS and
AHRS, along with one NavCom (the integrated one). IMHO, since
I have the juice to drive it for an hour, I look at it this way...
If I have an alternator failure in the clouds, the last thing
I want to do is get rid of my EFIS. Keeping an EFIS like mine
alive is probably the absolutely FASTEST way for me to get
on the ground. An RV-10 can fly a lot of miles and make an
on-airport landing really easily, if you can quickly and
successfully fly an approach.
The other guy's opinion differed....he figured that if he
"lost that stuff" that he may as well go all to backups
and fly the hard way. Well, I had a hard time with that
because losing an alternator shouldn't force you into
losing your EFIS...now you have to go with minimalistic
round gauges and get home...just when you already have a
high stress situation. He didn't have his EFIS on the
eBus. I didn't like that idea....you got the tools,
you may as well use them. My EFIS PFD draws 3A max.
the AHRS much less. If there were ANYTHING I'd want to
keep, it would be those 2 items. I just don't think the guy
thought it though as to what types of failures he expected,
and when he expected to have them. Perhaps in his mind,
the EFIS failure was inevitable if the Alternator died,
or he wasn't separating the 2 events in his mind. Oh well,
we all make our own choices, so I wasn't about to beat
anyone up for it. It's just a philosophy and it's one that
the builder needs to think through.
Sorry to ramble....for the first time in a while I felt
like typing a bit more.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
linn Walters wrote:
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
>
>>
>> Sorry Linn, but the EFIS world really changes the paradigm a bit
>> on what usefulness a 2nd battery can be. Most EFIS systems
>> won't stay running while you crank an engine, and most EFIS
>> systems take a little time to come up to provide datalink
>> weather and other services, and to just do thorough self-tests
>> and the normal routine boot process.
>
> No apology (was it??) necessary. I see what you mean. As part of my
> education ..... never had an efis ...... can you give me the voltage
> range and current draw from your efis owners manual??
>
> Does it take longer for the efis to come online than for a GPS??? Is
> there a substantial delay before the engine parameters are
> available??? Can you give me a guesstimate of the time???
>
>> You can shortcut the boot, but it's at the expense of self-tests
and
>> sensor accuracies.
>
> Really wouldn't want to do that ..... inaccurate info is useless!!!
>
>> Having a 2nd battery there to get things running
>> pre-start, so you have a display of all engine parameters,
>> and everything else, is a great thing. No, it's not a 100%
>> necessary thing, but it is a whole different situation than
>> the panels common 5 or more years ago. The electronic ignition
>> adds one more place to use a 2nd battery...but in my install
>> I combined the function and just have 2....I didn't go to
>> 3. 2 though, that will be very common with EFIS based installs.
>
> OK, then it appears that a small battery (less weight) might fit the
> application??? It might also run the essential buss for a while.
Just
> musing.
> Thanks for the point of view.
> Linn
>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel pressure problems |
Just one other comment on this isssue; I checked the solution of the cut of
the vent and the extra small hole inside with the lady (Phd in ME from Cal
Tech) up the street. She said that a square cut (or a diagonal cut facing
aft) produces a low pressure area that would tend to evacuate the tank and
cause fuel pressure variations. Also indicated that the small hole was a
good idea for backup vent.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 7:22 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
I was in light icing on Sunday, coming back from the Cayman Islands, and
that was the first thing that crossed my mine. I wasn't to worried about the
wing, but that little cold soaked 1/4 vent tube, had my stomach in knots!
David McNeill wrote:
One other thing I have done is drill a small (50) hole in the vent line
inside the fairing. This does not affect the tam pressure much and provides
an alternate vent in case of icing. Since the caps are not vented, an icing
of the forward facing vent line could close the vent and result in fuel
starvation and/or deformed tank.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 6:43 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
Depending on angle and cut of the vent it seems that a low pressure area
could be created at the vent entrance
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 4:18 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
I'm pretty sure mine are, per plans....but I don't know how much real ram
air pressure is generated there.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
David McNeill wrote:
By breather tubes , are you referring to the vent lines? If so do you
have the tips of the vent lines cut diagonally and facing forward.
This is intened to provide a positve "ram" pressure to the vent lines
if they contain fuel.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New Builder - Tools |
I have been following this list for the past year and have spent many hours reviewing
the many websites referenced from Tim's site - very very helpful in trying
to comprehend the scope of this project. Despite all that, I'm ordering a
tail kit and would like to apologize in advance for all the dumb questions and
thank you for your patience and help. Now for the first set of dumb questions
- I need tools.
I see that Avery sell a 650 piece RV Builders Tool Kit with a recommended increase
in clecos and a special bucking bar - is this a good kit? A friend recommended
the Sioux brand so I was going to sub this brand for the rivet gun in the
kit? I have a choice of 2x or 3x - which one? I have seen posts recommending
a pneumatic squeezer - is the avery 7530kit a good one? Do I need the hand
squeezer if I get the pneumatic? What yokes should I buy? If I buy a 4" yoke,
why would I need smaller? What are "no hole" yokes for? I saw a post regarding
a brand of clecos that didn't hold as well as another - are the Avery clecos
good? Are tungsten bucking bars recommended? Avery set? Do I need a torque
wrench - if so, which one? I see some recommendations to ream the holes before
riveting - if so, what sizes do I need? Safety wire twisters - is there
a recommended one? What size(s) safety wire are needed? Avery has a Oops rivet
kit - do I buy them from Avery or Vans? Are there any other "should have"
tools that will make life easier?
Really looking forward to starting this new adventure!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Woods" <rwshooter(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Builder - Tools |
Hey Doug.....I was in the same boat as you on tolls until
today.............Talk to Isham at planetools.....I got all the goodies at a
great price!.....Robb
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Gee" <Doug.Gee@firestone-textiles.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 6:41 PM
Subject: RV10-List: New Builder - Tools
<Doug.Gee@firestone-textiles.com>
I have been following this list for the past year and have spent many hours
reviewing the many websites referenced from Tim's site - very very helpful
in trying to comprehend the scope of this project. Despite all that, I'm
ordering a tail kit and would like to apologize in advance for all the dumb
questions and thank you for your patience and help. Now for the first set
of dumb questions - I need tools.
I see that Avery sell a 650 piece RV Builders Tool Kit with a recommended
increase in clecos and a special bucking bar - is this a good kit? A friend
recommended the Sioux brand so I was going to sub this brand for the rivet
gun in the kit? I have a choice of 2x or 3x - which one? I have seen posts
recommending a pneumatic squeezer - is the avery 7530kit a good one? Do I
need the hand squeezer if I get the pneumatic? What yokes should I buy? If
I buy a 4" yoke, why would I need smaller? What are "no hole" yokes for? I
saw a post regarding a brand of clecos that didn't hold as well as another -
are the Avery clecos good? Are tungsten bucking bars recommended? Avery
set? Do I need a torque wrench - if so, which one? I see some
recommendations to ream the holes before riveting - if so, what sizes do I
need? Safety wire twisters - is there a recommended one? What size(s)
safety wire are needed? Avery has a Oops rivet kit - do I buy them from
Avery or Vans? Are the!
re any other "should have" tools that will make life easier?
Really looking forward to starting this new adventure!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | New Builder - Tools |
I will also give you a couple of opinions.....
I got the Cleveland tool kit, worked great for me, bought a lot of extra
clecos......you can never have too many. I also recommend that you get some
black cleco's, #19. I think you only need about 10.
Band saw and grinder are a must.
Scotchbrite wheel for grinder
Drill press comes in handy, but not sure it is a must.
Box of scotchbrite pads, I like the maroon one's, I think they are 320
Just some quick ideas off the top of my head.
Rene'
N423CF (Flying)
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Gee
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 7:42 PM
Subject: RV10-List: New Builder - Tools
<Doug.Gee@firestone-textiles.com>
I have been following this list for the past year and have spent many hours
reviewing the many websites referenced from Tim's site - very very helpful
in trying to comprehend the scope of this project. Despite all that, I'm
ordering a tail kit and would like to apologize in advance for all the dumb
questions and thank you for your patience and help. Now for the first set
of dumb questions - I need tools.
I see that Avery sell a 650 piece RV Builders Tool Kit with a recommended
increase in clecos and a special bucking bar - is this a good kit? A friend
recommended the Sioux brand so I was going to sub this brand for the rivet
gun in the kit? I have a choice of 2x or 3x - which one? I have seen posts
recommending a pneumatic squeezer - is the avery 7530kit a good one? Do I
need the hand squeezer if I get the pneumatic? What yokes should I buy? If
I buy a 4" yoke, why would I need smaller? What are "no hole" yokes for? I
saw a post regarding a brand of clecos that didn't hold as well as another -
are the Avery clecos good? Are tungsten bucking bars recommended? Avery
set? Do I need a torque wrench - if so, which one? I see some
recommendations to ream the holes before riveting - if so, what sizes do I
need? Safety wire twisters - is there a recommended one? What size(s)
safety wire are needed? Avery has a Oops rivet kit - do I buy them from
Avery or Vans? Are the!
re any other "should have" tools that will make life easier?
Really looking forward to starting this new adventure!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Builder - Tools |
| From: | "Andy Turner" <aturner(at)clarion.edu> |
Hi Doug,
Welcome to the party. I'm driving the last rivets on the tailcone, began the
empennage in November. It has been a lot of fun for me, I expect you will enjoy
it too.
As for the tools, I haven't regretted any of the tools I have purchased, only
the ones I did not. The job is challenging enough, having the right tool results
in higher quality work. I purchased a complete kit (Plane-Tools) before I
began, but I've added to that kit with nearly weekly orders to the tool companies.
And, believe it or not, I am a minimalist by nature. In fact, I began the
project with only hand squeezers, viewing a pneumatic squeezer as a luxury I
could live without. The first spar on the vertical stabilizer changed my mind
on that idea. I quickly learned that good tools would make higher quality results
possible. Nothing will make you feel better than good quality work, and nothing
will make you feel worse than a botched job.
Looking down your list of questions, I've asked all of them myself, and for me
the answer was a uniform yes - I've purchased all of the tools you mention,
though not necessary from Avery - I shopped for the best price. And, I don't
regret purchasing a single one of them. Most I consider essential.
A couple of specifics - I have three hand squeezers, along with the pneumatic,
don't regret having them a bit (well, OK, perhaps two hand squeezers would have
been adequate, changing yokes isn't that much work!). Lots of different yokes
are really useful though - different yokes work well in different situations,
the more the better. You will need the no hole yoke for situations in which
access to one side if the rivet is tight - the rivet is set against the yoke
tip itself, not a set. My tungsten bar is one of my favorite tools. My #30 and
40 reamers are other favorites. You won't need the safety wire twister and wire
till later in the project, but buy a couple of twisters (large and small)
and a variety of wire sizes - you will use them all. I really like my DRDT-2 dimpler.
As for the torque wrench, that is my next purchase, as my 3/8 drive torque
wrench is too heavy - remember that many of the fasteners are light - I would
like to find a torque wrench that will register down to 18 in-lbs or so.
Best of luck with the great adventure, -Andy
--------
Andy Turner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171405#171405
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Builder - Tools |
I'll tell you what I did, took much time and in the end saved a whole lot
over the "package deals"
http://rv10builder.net/tools.aspx describes the tools and the Van's list I
got from Brown Tools. I also bought lots of stuff from e-bay and the , now
defunct, Boeing store. I was fortunate, I got good tools and never
experienced any problems with any of the Vendors and e-bay.
If you dont care to shop around, go with a packaged deal, I think Avery
sells way more things than one needs, Home depot has a long piece of steel
for significantly less than the one sold as the "Horizontal bucking bar"
also you'll find that various sizes of scrap steel work equally as well as
bucking bar. do get Sioux drills, I have a 2x riveter and it works just
fine, I got my pneumatic squeezer from Brown with a 2.5 and 3, but no 4in,
and never regretted that decision, Brown has clecoes that have worked
flawlessly for me, and in general you can't go wrong with The Yard store or
Brown tools in my experience
I did the tools cheaply, I got the best I could and took months to build it
all up "on sales"..
I have found more is certainly not a bad thing if you have the money to
spend, I have used half of what many say is needed and it has been fine.
As far as the reamer... I have a few, bought from Boeing and they have been
nice, but certainly not a necessity, but I use them for every final drilled
hole, if I didn't it would be fine, the plane would still last a lifetime.
Lastly, get a pneunatic squeezer, you wont regret that decision.
Best of success on this new and exciting endeavour, look forward to hearing
your progress.
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Gee" <Doug.Gee@firestone-textiles.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 6:41 PM
Subject: RV10-List: New Builder - Tools
> <Doug.Gee@firestone-textiles.com>
>
> I have been following this list for the past year and have spent many
> hours reviewing the many websites referenced from Tim's site - very very
> helpful in trying to comprehend the scope of this project. Despite all
> that, I'm ordering a tail kit and would like to apologize in advance for
> all the dumb questions and thank you for your patience and help. Now for
> the first set of dumb questions - I need tools.
>
> I see that Avery sell a 650 piece RV Builders Tool Kit with a recommended
> increase in clecos and a special bucking bar - is this a good kit? A
> friend recommended the Sioux brand so I was going to sub this brand for
> the rivet gun in the kit? I have a choice of 2x or 3x - which one? I
> have seen posts recommending a pneumatic squeezer - is the avery 7530kit a
> good one? Do I need the hand squeezer if I get the pneumatic? What yokes
> should I buy? If I buy a 4" yoke, why would I need smaller? What are "no
> hole" yokes for? I saw a post regarding a brand of clecos that didn't hold
> as well as another - are the Avery clecos good? Are tungsten bucking bars
> recommended? Avery set? Do I need a torque wrench - if so, which one? I
> see some recommendations to ream the holes before riveting - if so, what
> sizes do I need? Safety wire twisters - is there a recommended one? What
> size(s) safety wire are needed? Avery has a Oops rivet kit - do I buy
> them from Avery or Vans? Are the!
> re any other "should have" tools that will make life easier?
>
> Really looking forward to starting this new adventure!
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
Did you fly without wheel pants? If so did you remove the outboard wheel
pant support tube? The nose wheel pant support brackets? I assume the mains
inboard support must stay as the removal and replacement would be too much
trouble.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com> |
Did you fly without wheel pants?
Yes
If so did you remove the outboard wheel pant support tube?
No
The nose wheel pant support brackets?
Yes, removed
I assume the mains inboard support must stay as the removal and replacement
would be too much trouble.
Yes.
Rene'
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:25 PM
Subject: RV10-List: first flyers
Did you fly without wheel pants? If so did you remove the outboard wheel
pant support tube? The nose wheel pant support brackets? I assume the mains
inboard support must stay as the removal and replacement would be too much
trouble.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | New Builder - Tools |
Doug,
In addition to all of the other tools mentions, I'd HIGHLY recommend a
pneumatic pop rivet gun from Harbor Freight. Mostly useful when you start
on the fuselage floors so watch for the frequent times it's available for
$29. Best cheap tool you'll ever get and it's a lifesaver. Same tool is
available on e-bay and other stores but I've never seen it as cheap as
Harbor Frieght.
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Gee
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:42 PM
Subject: RV10-List: New Builder - Tools
<Doug.Gee@firestone-textiles.com>
I have been following this list for the past year and have spent many hours
reviewing the many websites referenced from Tim's site - very very helpful
in trying to comprehend the scope of this project. Despite all that, I'm
ordering a tail kit and would like to apologize in advance for all the dumb
questions and thank you for your patience and help. Now for the first set
of dumb questions - I need tools.
I see that Avery sell a 650 piece RV Builders Tool Kit with a recommended
increase in clecos and a special bucking bar - is this a good kit? A friend
recommended the Sioux brand so I was going to sub this brand for the rivet
gun in the kit? I have a choice of 2x or 3x - which one? I have seen posts
recommending a pneumatic squeezer - is the avery 7530kit a good one? Do I
need the hand squeezer if I get the pneumatic? What yokes should I buy? If
I buy a 4" yoke, why would I need smaller? What are "no hole" yokes for? I
saw a post regarding a brand of clecos that didn't hold as well as another -
are the Avery clecos good? Are tungsten bucking bars recommended? Avery
set? Do I need a torque wrench - if so, which one? I see some
recommendations to ream the holes before riveting - if so, what sizes do I
need? Safety wire twisters - is there a recommended one? What size(s)
safety wire are needed? Avery has a Oops rivet kit - do I buy them from
Avery or Vans? Are the!
re any other "should have" tools that will make life easier?
Really looking forward to starting this new adventure!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Marlow <sam(at)fr8dog.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pressure problems |
Sounds like a good idea.
David McNeill wrote:
> Just one other comment on this isssue; I checked the solution of the
> cut of the vent and the extra small hole inside with the lady (Phd in
> ME from Cal Tech) up the street. She said that a square cut (or a
> diagonal cut facing aft) produces a low pressure area that would tend
> to evacuate the tank and cause fuel pressure variations. Also
> indicated that the small hole was a good idea for backup vent.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Sam
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 19, 2008 7:22 AM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
>
> I was in light icing on Sunday, coming back from the Cayman Islands,
> and that was the first thing that crossed my mine. I wasn't to worried
> about the wing, but that little cold soaked 1/4 vent tube, had my
> stomach in knots!
>
> David McNeill wrote:
>>
>> One other thing I have done is drill a small (50) hole in the vent line
>> inside the fairing. This does not affect the tam pressure much and provides
>> an alternate vent in case of icing. Since the caps are not vented, an icing
>> of the forward facing vent line could close the vent and result in fuel
>> starvation and/or deformed tank.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 6:43 AM
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
>>
>>
>> Depending on angle and cut of the vent it seems that a low pressure area
>> could be created at the vent entrance
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 4:18 AM
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
>>
>>
>> I'm pretty sure mine are, per plans....but I don't know how much real ram
>> air pressure is generated there.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>>
>>
>> David McNeill wrote:
>>
>>> By breather tubes , are you referring to the vent lines? If so do you
>>> have the tips of the vent lines cut diagonally and facing forward.
>>> This is intened to provide a positve "ram" pressure to the vent lines
>>> if they contain fuel.
>>>
>>>
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> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dawson-Townsend,Timothy" <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero> |
Tim wrote: "Most EFIS systems won't stay running while you crank an
engine"
I say, any EFIS that's worth its salt will!
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
40025 Firewall Forward
tdt(at)aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Testement" <jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com> |
| Subject: | New Builder - Tools |
Bob,
Excellent write up on tool choices - useful to the newcomer.
My partner and I are on our second RV10 and have never needed a hand
squeezer (love the pneumatic). We also found the Harbor Freight Pop Riveter
($35) to be invaluable - especially for the floor pans.
I think your comments should be archived for 1st timers.
John Testement
jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com
40321
Richmond, VA
Painting
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Leffler
I didn't get a hand squeezer, but did get a pneumatic from Avery w/ 3",
longeron, and 4" no hole. I've been told that there will be times I need a
hand squeezer, but I haven't run across that time yet. I figured I could
always buy the hand squeezer later. The no hole allows you to get into
places in which you can't if you had a standard die installed. I consider
these three the minimum types of yokes you'll need. There have been times
that I could have used another yoke, but I ended up setting those rivets
using a gun.
On recommendation from an A&P friend, I purchased the squeezer and dimple
dies from Cleaveland. He was of the opinion that they were better than
Avery's. I can't substantiate that claim, since I haven't used Avery's.
I have purchased about 100 more #40 silver #40 clecos above what Avery
recommended for the RV-10. Working on the empennage, it seemed that I never
had enough.
I did upgrade the rivet gun to a Sioux 3x. I had a chance to play with the
Avery gun beforehand. The Avery gun works just fine, but the Sioux gun has
much better trigger control.
I also got a Chicago Pneumatic drill from Brown. Again, I liked how the
drill performed better and had a chance to play with both drills prior to
ordering.
I've had mixed results with both Cleaveland and Avery edge flanging tool.
I've had more success with recently with Cleaveland's.
I did purchase an Avery pistol grip pneumatic pistol grip cleco gun.
Definitely not a requirement, but clearly made inserting and removing large
amounts of cleco's much easier.
Yes, you'll need a torque wrench. I got the nice electronic version
(CDI/Snap-On) from Cleaveland. I have had problems with the clicker
versions before, which is clearly a personal issue for me and you may not
experience the same. It's nice to hear the buzzer, especially when you
can't see the wrench.
Also, get a tungsten bucking bar. I use this bar 99.9% of the same. It's
smaller, heavier, and much easier to use.
I also got a DRDT-2 instead of a C-Frame. It's quite a bit easier to use
and much quieter. My wife and daughter have used it and probably wouldn't
have touched a c-frame. That alone is enough to justify the upgrade to me.
I highly recommend the quick disconnect kit for the drill from Cleaveland.
I did most of the empennage before I got this. I got tired of constantly
changing drill bits. Now I can change bits in a couple seconds.
Reamers will yield a much cleaner hole that a drill bit. I use a reamer
whenever I can. I have #30, #40, and #41.
I got my safety wire twisters from Harbor Freight. I don't think there is
much difference here. I wouldn't get the torque wrench from HF.
Yes, you will most likely need oops rivets. None of us are perfect. Rick
Sked sent me some when I started my project. I will play it forward and
send you some if you email my offline.
With all this said, the plain Avery and Cleaveland tool kits will work just
fine. As you can see, I've made many upgrades that do cost more. They've
made my life easier by either reducing work effort or by providing me
greater control of the tool. This is going to be a highly personal
decision. To me, there was enough value added, that I was willing to spend
the extra dollars.
Enough ramblings for today. If you have an specific questions about the
upgrades, please contact me offline.
Bob
Checked by AVG.
8:10 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | New Builder - Tools |
As the others have said, I would talk to PlaneTools, Cleavland, or Brown. All
three of them are experienced and very reasonable and I have bought tools from
all of them.
I got all my initial stuff from Avery and found several items that you will never
touch in his kits and at least one tool that breaks often. It's the V shaped
edge debur tool that is brazed on and made by a relative or something. Long
story short but he replaced the broken tool, twice, but said it was my fault,
continually claimed I dropped it, and was rather rude about it. Both times
the end popped right off as I was using it. His stuff is fine but I'm not keen
on being called a liar and customer service is more important to me than a
couple bucks. YMMV
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Gee
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:42 PM
Subject: RV10-List: New Builder - Tools
I have been following this list for the past year and have spent many hours reviewing
the many websites referenced from Tim's site - very very helpful in trying
to comprehend the scope of this project. Despite all that, I'm ordering a
tail kit and would like to apologize in advance for all the dumb questions and
thank you for your patience and help. Now for the first set of dumb questions
- I need tools.
I see that Avery sell a 650 piece RV Builders Tool Kit with a recommended increase
in clecos and a special bucking bar - is this a good kit? A friend recommended
the Sioux brand so I was going to sub this brand for the rivet gun in the
kit? I have a choice of 2x or 3x - which one? I have seen posts recommending
a pneumatic squeezer - is the avery 7530kit a good one? Do I need the hand
squeezer if I get the pneumatic? What yokes should I buy? If I buy a 4" yoke,
why would I need smaller? What are "no hole" yokes for? I saw a post regarding
a brand of clecos that didn't hold as well as another - are the Avery clecos
good? Are tungsten bucking bars recommended? Avery set? Do I need a torque
wrench - if so, which one? I see some recommendations to ream the holes before
riveting - if so, what sizes do I need? Safety wire twisters - is there
a recommended one? What size(s) safety wire are needed? Avery has a Oops rivet
kit - do I buy them from Avery or Vans? Are the!
re any other "should have" tools that will make life easier?
Really looking forward to starting this new adventure!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Builder - Tools |
Mike Crow, one of the my instructors at Alexander Technical Center
posted this on the RV List back in 2004 so some of the specific info on
model numbers may be out of date and Avery and Cleaveland may have
changed there offerings, but IMHO it is great information. If you are
considering purchasing your tools in Kit form, IMHO this is great
advice. Below is what Mike wrote. It is not an exact quote and I will
add some of my comments in ().
To introduce myself first I am an A&P mechanic with an IA. I work as a
Lead Mechanic for a major air line. For the past two years I have worked
part time at the Alexander Technical Center at Griffin GA. as an
instructor on their quick start tail assembly program.
http://www.buildtofly.com/. (taking some sort of training class IMHO is
invaluable, even if it only a weekend sheet metal class)
I have been involved in over 100 tail kits. I have worked on the 6,7,8,9
and 10 kits; I am also building a RV8A myself.
As each class begins I ask if the student have already purchased their
tools. My hopes are that they have not as we have a good selection of
tools to try from the different manufacturers. The ones that have gotten
their tools before coming often say I wish I had gotten this tool or
that tool instead. In the following I will try to give you a list and
suggestions of tools that I have learned over the past two years. Please
keep in mind that this information is my opinion and mine alone. Others
may agree or disagree.
There are two major suppliers of tools for the RV tail kits that I
recommend Avery and Cleaveland both are RV builders and are good and
honest people to do business with.
I would buy a tool kit from Avery or Cleaveland to begin with. Both will
allow you to add or subtract the tools you want to the kit. I will use
both their 2004 catalogs as a guide. (The information is updated for
Cleaveland's 2005 catalog)
First if you buy Cleaveland's kit I would buy their complete airframe
tool package p/n Comp-Kit 05.
I would subtract from the kit:
BBRP-48 Back Riveting Plate-It is a nice plate but too small in my
opinion. (Cleaveland must be listening they now have an optional 4"x16"
back riveting plate. Get the bigger plate)
CF-80 C-Frame Riveting Tool-More about C-Frames later but if you get
this one also order their C-From Table Kit CTF-48
ASRD-14 Air Swivel Regulator- has been changed it now has a click type
knob. This is the type regulator you will want.
I would add to the kit:
I would suggest the 3X Rivet gun- The 2x works good on the 3/32 rivet
but not well on the 1/8 rivet. Get a 3x to work well on the 1/8 and turn
down the pressure a little to do the 3/32 or better yet buy one of
each. The 3X is standard in the kit.
DP-8 Drive Pin Punches- This is a nice punch set you could get by with
only the 3/32 and 1/8 which come in the kit. (you will be removing a few
bad rivets)
LBL-13 BOELUBE Do not drill lead without it.
3MW-77S6 Light deburring wheel- You get a rougher one in the kit you
need both. Go to Home Depot or Lowe's and get a grinder and install
these wheels.
3MP-47 Scotch-Brite pads-you will need plenty. The kit now has 5 pads.
DIE509-10 #10 SCREW DIMPLE DIES-You will need these to dimple for the
screws for the lead weights
SNYT-405 4in THIN NOSE YOKE- You are going to need a thin nose and a 4in
nose get them both in one.
SNYF-251 2.5in FLANGE NOSE YOKE- There is places where nothing else is
going to reach.
RSMS-75 SWIVEL FLUSH SET WITH RUBBER GUARD-You must cut some of the
rubber down or you rivets will set too high
CLP-20 CLEKO PLIERS-One is not enough.
CLC-50 1/2in CLEKO CLAMP-You get 4. You need at least 10.
CLC-100 1in CLEKO CLAMP-You get 4. You need at least 10.
CC120-30 120 DEGREE DIES FOR 1/8 POP RIVETS-You use a lot of CS4-4 on
the floor boards of the fuselage they are 120 degrees.
For our RV10 friends RSB-12 12in back rivet set-You will need this to
back rivet the stiffeners on the elevators.
The RV10 will also need BBRV10 SPECIAL BUCKING BAR-You will need this
for the elevators.
I would buy from Avery to complete the kit from Cleaveland 575 hand
seamer 3-1/2 jaw-I use this to squeezing the trailing edge of the
trim tabs.
550 3/32 vise grip dimplers- several places on ribs this is needed.
1046 SPEED DEBURRING AND COUNTERSINKING TOOL
23904 4 PC. HOOK AND PICK SET-You will need a pick many times for
aligning skins (Harbor Freight)
If you buy an Avery tool kit, I would buy the RV-3,-4-6-7-8-9and -10
builders tool kit.
I would subtract from the kit
1001 22in hand rivet and dimpling tool-it is there c-frame tool a good
tool but see below about a c-frame tool
10765 POLYETHYLENE DIMPLING MALLET-Goes with the c-frame tool. If you
get the c-frame tool get the mallet. (Harbor Freight)
500 FLUTING PLIERS- You need a pair of fluting pliers I like
Cleaveland's a lot better.
1042 EDGE ROLLING TOOL- I can not get this tool to work for me. It could
just be me.
3507 3M RIVETING TAPE-Works well. If you use it take it off after use it
is real hard to get off later. Use Scotch Removable Magic Tape works as
well and much cheaper.
9885 ANGLE DRILL KIT- Nice kit not needed for the tail kit could be used
later. (ebay)
1054 NBR 8 SCREW COUNTERSINK CUTTER-Not needed for the tail kit.
25500 SWIVEL HEAD POP RIVET TOOL-If you must use a hand pop tool use
Cleaveland's PRS-20 it is much easier to squeeze.
I would add to the kit:
7760 4in NO HOLE YOKE
7755 LONGERON YOKE
811 RIVETING TAPE-Scotch removable magic tape.
1003 BOELUBE Do not drill lead without it.
200 CLECO PLIERS-One is not enough.
1661 Light deburring wheel- You get a rougher one in the kit you need
both. Go to Home Depot or Lowe's and get a grinder and install these
wheels.
23904 4 PC. HOOK AND PICK SET-You will need a pick many times for
aligning skins.
For the RV9 42120 SPECIAL 120 DEGREE COUNTERSINK-Used where you use
CS4-4 rivets on the elevators.
For the RV10 630 RV10 ELEVATOR BUCKING BAR
I would by from Cleaveland to complete the Avery kit:.
3MP-47 Scotch-Brite pads-you will need plenty
DIE509-10 #10 SCREW DIMPLE DIES-You will need these to dimple for the
screws for the lead weights
EF-60 EDGE FORMER-Needed at seams
HS-30 OFFSET HAND SEAMER-Used many places
FP-200 FLUTING PLIERS-Used to straighten ribs
For the RV9 DIECS4-4 120 DEGREE DIES FOR 1/8 POP RIVETS-You use a lot of
CS4-4 on the skin of your elevators they are 120 degrees.
For our RV10 friends RSB-12 12in back rivet set-You will need this to
back rivet the stiffeners on the elevators.
Tools that would be nice to have:
PNEUMATIC SQUEEZER- In my opinion a must have. Get a 214 style. Make
sure to get an adjustable set holder for it.
PNEUMATIC POP RIVET GUN-Go to harbor freight or such and get one for
around $40.00
LIGHTWEIGHT HOSE KITS-Makes it a lot easier to handle drills and rivet guns
TATCO HAND SQUEEZER WITH 2in YOKE-Makes it a lot easier to dimple all
those ribs (Not necessary, I like Avery's squeezer)
C-FRAME DIMPLER
EXPERIMENTAL AERO
I brought a DRDT dimplier and installed it at Alexander Technical Center
to try it out in January this year.
Boy was that a mistake. There is no way I am getting it back. It is the
best I have used for dimpling. It gives best dimples; it is consistent,
quiet and a one man operation.
There is no way I am going back to the old c-frame hammer method. Now if
I need to dimple I pack up what I have and drive 32 miles even though I
have a hammer c-Frame dimplier at home. It is that much better. They now
sell the DRDT-2 which has some improvement over the -1.
Mike Crowe
Doug Gee wrote:
>
> I have been following this list for the past year and have spent many hours reviewing
the many websites referenced from Tim's site - very very helpful in trying
to comprehend the scope of this project. Despite all that, I'm ordering
a tail kit and would like to apologize in advance for all the dumb questions
and thank you for your patience and help. Now for the first set of dumb questions
- I need tools.
>
> I see that Avery sell a 650 piece RV Builders Tool Kit with a recommended increase
in clecos and a special bucking bar - is this a good kit? A friend recommended
the Sioux brand so I was going to sub this brand for the rivet gun in
the kit? I have a choice of 2x or 3x - which one? I have seen posts recommending
a pneumatic squeezer - is the avery 7530kit a good one? Do I need the hand
squeezer if I get the pneumatic? What yokes should I buy? If I buy a 4" yoke,
why would I need smaller? What are "no hole" yokes for? I saw a post regarding
a brand of clecos that didn't hold as well as another - are the Avery clecos
good? Are tungsten bucking bars recommended? Avery set? Do I need a torque
wrench - if so, which one? I see some recommendations to ream the holes
before riveting - if so, what sizes do I need? Safety wire twisters - is there
a recommended one? What size(s) safety wire are needed? Avery has a Oops
rivet kit - do I buy them from Avery or Vans? Are the!
> re any other "should have" tools that will make life easier?
>
> Really looking forward to starting this new adventure!
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jim(at)CombsFive.Com> |
I agree!
I have the Advanced Flight Systems 3500EE and it works great during cranking.
Any EFIS that will not function during cranking is not worth having. Thats a required
feature in my opinion.
Jim Combs
40192
===========================================================
From: "Dawson-Townsend,Timothy" <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero>
Date: 2008/03/21 Fri AM 08:03:37 EST
Subject: RV10-List: Batteries
Tim wrote: "Most EFIS systems won't stay running while you crank an
engine"
I say, any EFIS that's worth its salt will!
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
40025 Firewall Forward
tdt(at)aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New Builder - Tools |
| From: | John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com> |
Yikes! My mileage has varied greatly!
Not saying that this didn't happen to Michael, but Avery is where I start
when thinking about buying another tool. It is also where I bought my
original set. Bob has provided nothing but the best service for me over the
years. Once taking back my stale pneumatic squeezer (not used at all in two
years) and rebuilt it for free after it didn't perform correctly. When I
complained about a rivet set (wasn't the rivet set's fault, rather my
technique), he sent out another for free, including shipping. He's always
been there for questions. The family's been under some great stress
recently, but doubt that that should make a difference. Just real good
people. I'd not pass them by. As I would not Cleveland, the only other one
I've had direct experience with. They have been excellent as well.
What you want is a company that has people who are willing to talk about the
issues that you are encountering during the build, whether it be the quality
or durability of a tool, how to use the tool, or an approach to a problem,
and I've found both companies are very willing and able to do so.
As Michael said, YMMV.
John Jessen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 6:27 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: New Builder - Tools
-->
As the others have said, I would talk to PlaneTools, Cleavland, or Brown.
All three of them are experienced and very reasonable and I have bought
tools from all of them.
I got all my initial stuff from Avery and found several items that you
will never touch in his kits and at least one tool that breaks often. It's
the V shaped edge debur tool that is brazed on and made by a relative or
something. Long story short but he replaced the broken tool, twice, but
said it was my fault, continually claimed I dropped it, and was rather rude
about it. Both times the end popped right off as I was using it. His stuff
is fine but I'm not keen on being called a liar and customer service is more
important to me than a couple bucks. YMMV
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Gee
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:42 PM
Subject: RV10-List: New Builder - Tools
--> <Doug.Gee@firestone-textiles.com>
I have been following this list for the past year and have spent many hours
reviewing the many websites referenced from Tim's site - very very helpful
in trying to comprehend the scope of this project. Despite all that, I'm
ordering a tail kit and would like to apologize in advance for all the dumb
questions and thank you for your patience and help. Now for the first set
of dumb questions - I need tools.
I see that Avery sell a 650 piece RV Builders Tool Kit with a recommended
increase in clecos and a special bucking bar - is this a good kit? A friend
recommended the Sioux brand so I was going to sub this brand for the rivet
gun in the kit? I have a choice of 2x or 3x - which one? I have seen posts
recommending a pneumatic squeezer - is the avery 7530kit a good one? Do I
need the hand squeezer if I get the pneumatic? What yokes should I buy? If
I buy a 4" yoke, why would I need smaller? What are "no hole" yokes for? I
saw a post regarding a brand of clecos that didn't hold as well as another -
are the Avery clecos good? Are tungsten bucking bars recommended? Avery
set? Do I need a torque wrench - if so, which one? I see some
recommendations to ream the holes before riveting - if so, what sizes do I
need? Safety wire twisters - is there a recommended one? What size(s)
safety wire are needed? Avery has a Oops rivet kit - do I buy them from
Avery or Vans? Are the!
re any other "should have" tools that will make life easier?
Really looking forward to starting this new adventure!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chase Snodgrass" <airplanedriver(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Builder - Tools |
I have to put in a good word for Bob Avery here. I've been buying
tools from Avery and others for ten years. I have found Bob to be the
most professional, courteous, and friendly. He will bend over
backwards to make good on his sales. I find his customer service and
tool quality so good, that I use Avery tools almost exclusively for
all my tool needs.
Chase Snodgrass
Presidio, TX
http://flybigbend.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
Jim are you just trying to start an EFIS war? :)
I made no provision for keeping my GRT Horizon 1 on line during cranking. I
knew it would not stay on line, and with other electronics I have on board,
I don't want it on line during cranking. I use the EIS for engine start,
and it works great. Here is my startup procedure.
Battery on line
Check EIS for warnings, make sure nothing unexpected is showing
Crank engine, monitoring EIS
With engine start, wait for oil pressure, check for alarms
Bring alternator on line
Start up GRT EFIS, A/P and other avionics
Wait a minute or so for EFIS and 430 to settle down, taxi and go.
Use paper checklist unit EFIS is on line. It was just yesterday that I got
the checklist loaded in the GRT, was using the BM lite. It was real nice to
have the parameters and data available in the check list.
I have been thinking about a second battery, but based on my mission
requirements just don't see a need.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Batteries
I agree!
I have the Advanced Flight Systems 3500EE and it works great during
cranking.
Any EFIS that will not function during cranking is not worth having. Thats
a required feature in my opinion.
Jim Combs
40192
===========================================================
From: "Dawson-Townsend,Timothy" <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero>
Date: 2008/03/21 Fri AM 08:03:37 EST
Subject: RV10-List: Batteries
Tim wrote: "Most EFIS systems won't stay running while you crank an
engine"
I say, any EFIS that's worth its salt will!
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
40025 Firewall Forward
tdt(at)aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | New Builder - Tools |
Like I said though, nothing wrong with his stuff and he did replace it every
time. Far more people have had positive experiences with him than negative but
no one is perfect. This was back in 2006. Who knows, might have caught him
on a bad day. If it wasn't a face to face conversation I might have had a different
impression of it. Just a datapoint.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 8:59 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: New Builder - Tools
Yikes! My mileage has varied greatly!
Not saying that this didn't happen to Michael, but Avery is where I start
when thinking about buying another tool. It is also where I bought my
original set. Bob has provided nothing but the best service for me over the
years. Once taking back my stale pneumatic squeezer (not used at all in two
years) and rebuilt it for free after it didn't perform correctly. When I
complained about a rivet set (wasn't the rivet set's fault, rather my
technique), he sent out another for free, including shipping. He's always
been there for questions. The family's been under some great stress
recently, but doubt that that should make a difference. Just real good
people. I'd not pass them by. As I would not Cleveland, the only other one
I've had direct experience with. They have been excellent as well.
What you want is a company that has people who are willing to talk about the
issues that you are encountering during the build, whether it be the quality
or durability of a tool, how to use the tool, or an approach to a problem,
and I've found both companies are very willing and able to do so.
As Michael said, YMMV.
John Jessen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 6:27 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: New Builder - Tools
-->
As the others have said, I would talk to PlaneTools, Cleavland, or Brown.
All three of them are experienced and very reasonable and I have bought
tools from all of them.
I got all my initial stuff from Avery and found several items that you
will never touch in his kits and at least one tool that breaks often. It's
the V shaped edge debur tool that is brazed on and made by a relative or
something. Long story short but he replaced the broken tool, twice, but
said it was my fault, continually claimed I dropped it, and was rather rude
about it. Both times the end popped right off as I was using it. His stuff
is fine but I'm not keen on being called a liar and customer service is more
important to me than a couple bucks. YMMV
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Gee
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:42 PM
Subject: RV10-List: New Builder - Tools
--> <Doug.Gee@firestone-textiles.com>
I have been following this list for the past year and have spent many hours
reviewing the many websites referenced from Tim's site - very very helpful
in trying to comprehend the scope of this project. Despite all that, I'm
ordering a tail kit and would like to apologize in advance for all the dumb
questions and thank you for your patience and help. Now for the first set
of dumb questions - I need tools.
I see that Avery sell a 650 piece RV Builders Tool Kit with a recommended
increase in clecos and a special bucking bar - is this a good kit? A friend
recommended the Sioux brand so I was going to sub this brand for the rivet
gun in the kit? I have a choice of 2x or 3x - which one? I have seen posts
recommending a pneumatic squeezer - is the avery 7530kit a good one? Do I
need the hand squeezer if I get the pneumatic? What yokes should I buy? If
I buy a 4" yoke, why would I need smaller? What are "no hole" yokes for? I
saw a post regarding a brand of clecos that didn't hold as well as another -
are the Avery clecos good? Are tungsten bucking bars recommended? Avery
set? Do I need a torque wrench - if so, which one? I see some
recommendations to ream the holes before riveting - if so, what sizes do I
need? Safety wire twisters - is there a recommended one? What size(s)
safety wire are needed? Avery has a Oops rivet kit - do I buy them from
Avery or Vans? Are the!
re any other "should have" tools that will make life easier?
Really looking forward to starting this new adventure!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Builder - Tools |
get the extended warranty however, mine broke after 150 pop rivets.
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:00 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: New Builder - Tools
>
> Doug,
> In addition to all of the other tools mentions, I'd HIGHLY recommend a
> pneumatic pop rivet gun from Harbor Freight. Mostly useful when you start
> on the fuselage floors so watch for the frequent times it's available for
> $29. Best cheap tool you'll ever get and it's a lifesaver. Same tool is
> available on e-bay and other stores but I've never seen it as cheap as
> Harbor Frieght.
>
> Marcus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Gee
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:42 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: New Builder - Tools
>
> <Doug.Gee@firestone-textiles.com>
>
> I have been following this list for the past year and have spent many
> hours
> reviewing the many websites referenced from Tim's site - very very helpful
> in trying to comprehend the scope of this project. Despite all that, I'm
> ordering a tail kit and would like to apologize in advance for all the
> dumb
> questions and thank you for your patience and help. Now for the first set
> of dumb questions - I need tools.
>
> I see that Avery sell a 650 piece RV Builders Tool Kit with a recommended
> increase in clecos and a special bucking bar - is this a good kit? A
> friend
> recommended the Sioux brand so I was going to sub this brand for the rivet
> gun in the kit? I have a choice of 2x or 3x - which one? I have seen
> posts
> recommending a pneumatic squeezer - is the avery 7530kit a good one? Do I
> need the hand squeezer if I get the pneumatic? What yokes should I buy?
> If
> I buy a 4" yoke, why would I need smaller? What are "no hole" yokes for?
> I
> saw a post regarding a brand of clecos that didn't hold as well as
> another -
> are the Avery clecos good? Are tungsten bucking bars recommended? Avery
> set? Do I need a torque wrench - if so, which one? I see some
> recommendations to ream the holes before riveting - if so, what sizes do I
> need? Safety wire twisters - is there a recommended one? What size(s)
> safety wire are needed? Avery has a Oops rivet kit - do I buy them from
> Avery or Vans? Are the!
> re any other "should have" tools that will make life easier?
>
> Really looking forward to starting this new adventure!
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Builder - Tools |
They must be spiffed on the warranty sales. Recently every time I buy something
from HF, the one gal discounts the unit by the cost of the warranty extension.
>
> From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
> Date: 2008/03/21 Fri AM 10:27:23 EST
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: New Builder - Tools
>
>
> get the extended warranty however, mine broke after 150 pop rivets.
> Pascal
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:00 PM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: New Builder - Tools
>
>
> >
> > Doug,
> > In addition to all of the other tools mentions, I'd HIGHLY recommend a
> > pneumatic pop rivet gun from Harbor Freight. Mostly useful when you start
> > on the fuselage floors so watch for the frequent times it's available for
> > $29. Best cheap tool you'll ever get and it's a lifesaver. Same tool is
> > available on e-bay and other stores but I've never seen it as cheap as
> > Harbor Frieght.
> >
> > Marcus
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Gee
> > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:42 PM
> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV10-List: New Builder - Tools
> >
> > <Doug.Gee@firestone-textiles.com>
> >
> > I have been following this list for the past year and have spent many
> > hours
> > reviewing the many websites referenced from Tim's site - very very helpful
> > in trying to comprehend the scope of this project. Despite all that, I'm
> > ordering a tail kit and would like to apologize in advance for all the
> > dumb
> > questions and thank you for your patience and help. Now for the first set
> > of dumb questions - I need tools.
> >
> > I see that Avery sell a 650 piece RV Builders Tool Kit with a recommended
> > increase in clecos and a special bucking bar - is this a good kit? A
> > friend
> > recommended the Sioux brand so I was going to sub this brand for the rivet
> > gun in the kit? I have a choice of 2x or 3x - which one? I have seen
> > posts
> > recommending a pneumatic squeezer - is the avery 7530kit a good one? Do I
> > need the hand squeezer if I get the pneumatic? What yokes should I buy?
> > If
> > I buy a 4" yoke, why would I need smaller? What are "no hole" yokes for?
> > I
> > saw a post regarding a brand of clecos that didn't hold as well as
> > another -
> > are the Avery clecos good? Are tungsten bucking bars recommended? Avery
> > set? Do I need a torque wrench - if so, which one? I see some
> > recommendations to ream the holes before riveting - if so, what sizes do I
> > need? Safety wire twisters - is there a recommended one? What size(s)
> > safety wire are needed? Avery has a Oops rivet kit - do I buy them from
> > Avery or Vans? Are the!
> > re any other "should have" tools that will make life easier?
> >
> > Really looking forward to starting this new adventure!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New Builder - Tools |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
As another(A&P with IA and EAA TC) plus sometimes professional mechanic
for the nation's top regional airline last year and an all too sometime
RV builder, I second whole heartedly endorse Mike Crow's observation
from ATC as posted by Larry Rosen. My tool selection for the RV-10 is
far more vast than even the tools commonly used at work. Both have
their advantages. Often builders are quick to write an early check and
make the quick selection process simplified. Make your own list and
check it twice.
I have found the use of pneumatic tools indispensible. Larry won me over
with his Hardhat graphic on his website with a Pneumatic Jackhammer
operator. I would seldom resort to an electric powered hand tool -
since. I formerly and repetitively visited the late Boeing Surplus
store in Renton, WA which is now only a fond memory. Ebay is amazing
when you make a comprehensive list. Tungsten Bucking bars are the most
valued and borrowed tools I possess. Get some practical experience and
ask other builders their input. Knowledge of item A vs. item B. often
provides products which simplify the build and become a valued asset. I
personally have two Sioux reversible drills which I love.
I have the utmost respect for those of you who continue to use a
mechanical hand squeezer or hand dimpler rather than the C214 style or
DRDT-2 dimpler (which has plans available). Randy Debauw, builder of
the first completed RV-10, enlightened me to the advantage of two or
three used drills (Pre-chucked with the correct bit size for time
efficiency). If you scan his file on Tim's site you may get a glimpse of
the end of his workbench and down under the countertop a foot where more
than a dozen such gems resided until needed. Several squeezers (Preset)
makes the assembly a true pleasure. One vise mounted and the other free
to roam in your hand. I have been surprised that more of you aren't
willing to part with such tools after the build is complete. There is a
lesson in there somewhere.
Doug - Take the time to understand the process and the tools. Seek
multiple opinions. You're going to love this group of friendly builders
with a common goal and passion.
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 6:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: New Builder - Tools
Mike Crow, one of the my instructors at Alexander Technical Center
posted this on the RV List back in 2004 so some of the specific info on
model numbers may be out of date and Avery and Cleaveland may have
changed there offerings, but IMHO it is great information. If you are
considering purchasing your tools in Kit form, IMHO this is great
advice. Below is what Mike wrote. It is not an exact quote and I will
add some of my comments in ().
To introduce myself first I am an A&P mechanic with an IA. I work as a
Lead Mechanic for a major air line. For the past two years I have worked
part time at the Alexander Technical Center at Griffin GA. as an
instructor on their quick start tail assembly program.
http://www.buildtofly.com/. (taking some sort of training class IMHO is
invaluable, even if it only a weekend sheet metal class)
I have been involved in over 100 tail kits. I have worked on the 6,7,8,9
and 10 kits; I am also building a RV8A myself.
As each class begins I ask if the student have already purchased their
tools. My hopes are that they have not as we have a good selection of
tools to try from the different manufacturers. The ones that have gotten
their tools before coming often say I wish I had gotten this tool or
that tool instead. In the following I will try to give you a list and
suggestions of tools that I have learned over the past two years. Please
keep in mind that this information is my opinion and mine alone. Others
may agree or disagree.
There are two major suppliers of tools for the RV tail kits that I
recommend Avery and Cleaveland both are RV builders and are good and
honest people to do business with.
I would buy a tool kit from Avery or Cleaveland to begin with. Both will
allow you to add or subtract the tools you want to the kit. I will use
both their 2004 catalogs as a guide. (The information is updated for
Cleaveland's 2005 catalog)
First if you buy Cleaveland's kit I would buy their complete airframe
tool package p/n Comp-Kit 05.
I would subtract from the kit:
BBRP-48 Back Riveting Plate-It is a nice plate but too small in my
opinion. (Cleaveland must be listening they now have an optional 4"x16"
back riveting plate. Get the bigger plate)
CF-80 C-Frame Riveting Tool-More about C-Frames later but if you get
this one also order their C-From Table Kit CTF-48
ASRD-14 Air Swivel Regulator- has been changed it now has a click type
knob. This is the type regulator you will want.
I would add to the kit:
I would suggest the 3X Rivet gun- The 2x works good on the 3/32 rivet
but not well on the 1/8 rivet. Get a 3x to work well on the 1/8 and turn
down the pressure a little to do the 3/32 or better yet buy one of
each. The 3X is standard in the kit.
DP-8 Drive Pin Punches- This is a nice punch set you could get by with
only the 3/32 and 1/8 which come in the kit. (you will be removing a few
bad rivets)
LBL-13 BOELUBE Do not drill lead without it.
3MW-77S6 Light deburring wheel- You get a rougher one in the kit you
need both. Go to Home Depot or Lowe's and get a grinder and install
these wheels.
3MP-47 Scotch-Brite pads-you will need plenty. The kit now has 5 pads.
DIE509-10 #10 SCREW DIMPLE DIES-You will need these to dimple for the
screws for the lead weights
SNYT-405 4in THIN NOSE YOKE- You are going to need a thin nose and a 4in
nose get them both in one.
SNYF-251 2.5in FLANGE NOSE YOKE- There is places where nothing else is
going to reach.
RSMS-75 SWIVEL FLUSH SET WITH RUBBER GUARD-You must cut some of the
rubber down or you rivets will set too high
CLP-20 CLEKO PLIERS-One is not enough.
CLC-50 1/2in CLEKO CLAMP-You get 4. You need at least 10.
CLC-100 1in CLEKO CLAMP-You get 4. You need at least 10.
CC120-30 120 DEGREE DIES FOR 1/8 POP RIVETS-You use a lot of CS4-4 on
the floor boards of the fuselage they are 120 degrees.
For our RV10 friends RSB-12 12in back rivet set-You will need this to
back rivet the stiffeners on the elevators.
The RV10 will also need BBRV10 SPECIAL BUCKING BAR-You will need this
for the elevators.
I would buy from Avery to complete the kit from Cleaveland 575 hand
seamer 3-1/2 jaw-I use this to squeezing the trailing edge of the
trim tabs.
550 3/32 vise grip dimplers- several places on ribs this is needed.
1046 SPEED DEBURRING AND COUNTERSINKING TOOL
23904 4 PC. HOOK AND PICK SET-You will need a pick many times for
aligning skins (Harbor Freight)
If you buy an Avery tool kit, I would buy the RV-3,-4-6-7-8-9and -10
builders tool kit.
I would subtract from the kit
1001 22in hand rivet and dimpling tool-it is there c-frame tool a good
tool but see below about a c-frame tool
10765 POLYETHYLENE DIMPLING MALLET-Goes with the c-frame tool. If you
get the c-frame tool get the mallet. (Harbor Freight)
500 FLUTING PLIERS- You need a pair of fluting pliers I like
Cleaveland's a lot better.
1042 EDGE ROLLING TOOL- I can not get this tool to work for me. It could
just be me.
3507 3M RIVETING TAPE-Works well. If you use it take it off after use it
is real hard to get off later. Use Scotch Removable Magic Tape works as
well and much cheaper.
9885 ANGLE DRILL KIT- Nice kit not needed for the tail kit could be used
later. (ebay)
1054 NBR 8 SCREW COUNTERSINK CUTTER-Not needed for the tail kit.
25500 SWIVEL HEAD POP RIVET TOOL-If you must use a hand pop tool use
Cleaveland's PRS-20 it is much easier to squeeze.
I would add to the kit:
7760 4in NO HOLE YOKE
7755 LONGERON YOKE
811 RIVETING TAPE-Scotch removable magic tape.
1003 BOELUBE Do not drill lead without it.
200 CLECO PLIERS-One is not enough.
1661 Light deburring wheel- You get a rougher one in the kit you need
both. Go to Home Depot or Lowe's and get a grinder and install these
wheels.
23904 4 PC. HOOK AND PICK SET-You will need a pick many times for
aligning skins.
For the RV9 42120 SPECIAL 120 DEGREE COUNTERSINK-Used where you use
CS4-4 rivets on the elevators.
For the RV10 630 RV10 ELEVATOR BUCKING BAR
I would by from Cleaveland to complete the Avery kit:.
3MP-47 Scotch-Brite pads-you will need plenty
DIE509-10 #10 SCREW DIMPLE DIES-You will need these to dimple for the
screws for the lead weights
EF-60 EDGE FORMER-Needed at seams
HS-30 OFFSET HAND SEAMER-Used many places
FP-200 FLUTING PLIERS-Used to straighten ribs
For the RV9 DIECS4-4 120 DEGREE DIES FOR 1/8 POP RIVETS-You use a lot of
CS4-4 on the skin of your elevators they are 120 degrees.
For our RV10 friends RSB-12 12in back rivet set-You will need this to
back rivet the stiffeners on the elevators.
Tools that would be nice to have:
PNEUMATIC SQUEEZER- In my opinion a must have. Get a 214 style. Make
sure to get an adjustable set holder for it.
PNEUMATIC POP RIVET GUN-Go to harbor freight or such and get one for
around $40.00
LIGHTWEIGHT HOSE KITS-Makes it a lot easier to handle drills and rivet
guns
TATCO HAND SQUEEZER WITH 2in YOKE-Makes it a lot easier to dimple all
those ribs (Not necessary, I like Avery's squeezer)
C-FRAME DIMPLER
EXPERIMENTAL AERO
I brought a DRDT dimplier and installed it at Alexander Technical Center
to try it out in January this year.
Boy was that a mistake. There is no way I am getting it back. It is the
best I have used for dimpling. It gives best dimples; it is consistent,
quiet and a one man operation.
There is no way I am going back to the old c-frame hammer method. Now if
I need to dimple I pack up what I have and drive 32 miles even though I
have a hammer c-Frame dimplier at home. It is that much better. They now
sell the DRDT-2 which has some improvement over the -1.
Mike Crowe
Doug Gee wrote:
<Doug.Gee@firestone-textiles.com>
>
> I have been following this list for the past year and have spent many
hours reviewing the many websites referenced from Tim's site - very very
helpful in trying to comprehend the scope of this project.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "joe arnold" <josarnold(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | RV-10 kit for sale |
Timing in Life Is Everything
That being said I am putting my Quick build RV-10 kit for sale
Empennage Kit was professionally supervised by a master RV.builder in the
Pittsburgh area
Wings are about 90% done, comes with auto pilot Gretz Heated Pitot Tube,
wiring harness for strobes lots of stuff
Tools are for sale.
I also have dual Chelton EFIS for sale minus the Gadahrs unit due to
unscrupulous business men AKA crooks.
http://www.cheltonflightsystems.com/EX/
This is not a hardship case I took over the 70 year old family business, and
its not going to falter on my watch. I am also building a lake house 125
miles from home on the weekends. I live in Doylestown Pa north east of
Philadelphia, DYL is our home airport.
If interested email at josarnold(at)msn.com and I will send pictures of work
completed our what ever you need, must be picked up. You know what it is
worth make me an offer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Builder - Tools |
In all fairness, I should be more specific with the one I had
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93458 there
are a couple others and I don't know if they work any better than the one I
had.
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: <rv(at)thelefflers.com>
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: Re: RV10-List: New Builder - Tools
>
> They must be spiffed on the warranty sales. Recently every time I buy
> something from HF, the one gal discounts the unit by the cost of the
> warranty extension.
>>
>> From: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
>> Date: 2008/03/21 Fri AM 10:27:23 EST
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: New Builder - Tools
>>
>>
>> get the extended warranty however, mine broke after 150 pop rivets.
>> Pascal
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net>
>> To:
>> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:00 PM
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: New Builder - Tools
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Doug,
>> > In addition to all of the other tools mentions, I'd HIGHLY recommend
>> > a
>> > pneumatic pop rivet gun from Harbor Freight. Mostly useful when you
>> > start
>> > on the fuselage floors so watch for the frequent times it's available
>> > for
>> > $29. Best cheap tool you'll ever get and it's a lifesaver. Same tool
>> > is
>> > available on e-bay and other stores but I've never seen it as cheap as
>> > Harbor Frieght.
>> >
>> > Marcus
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Gee
>> > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:42 PM
>> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> > Subject: RV10-List: New Builder - Tools
>> >
>> > <Doug.Gee@firestone-textiles.com>
>> >
>> > I have been following this list for the past year and have spent many
>> > hours
>> > reviewing the many websites referenced from Tim's site - very very
>> > helpful
>> > in trying to comprehend the scope of this project. Despite all that,
>> > I'm
>> > ordering a tail kit and would like to apologize in advance for all the
>> > dumb
>> > questions and thank you for your patience and help. Now for the first
>> > set
>> > of dumb questions - I need tools.
>> >
>> > I see that Avery sell a 650 piece RV Builders Tool Kit with a
>> > recommended
>> > increase in clecos and a special bucking bar - is this a good kit? A
>> > friend
>> > recommended the Sioux brand so I was going to sub this brand for the
>> > rivet
>> > gun in the kit? I have a choice of 2x or 3x - which one? I have seen
>> > posts
>> > recommending a pneumatic squeezer - is the avery 7530kit a good one?
>> > Do I
>> > need the hand squeezer if I get the pneumatic? What yokes should I
>> > buy?
>> > If
>> > I buy a 4" yoke, why would I need smaller? What are "no hole" yokes
>> > for?
>> > I
>> > saw a post regarding a brand of clecos that didn't hold as well as
>> > another -
>> > are the Avery clecos good? Are tungsten bucking bars recommended?
>> > Avery
>> > set? Do I need a torque wrench - if so, which one? I see some
>> > recommendations to ream the holes before riveting - if so, what sizes
>> > do I
>> > need? Safety wire twisters - is there a recommended one? What size(s)
>> > safety wire are needed? Avery has a Oops rivet kit - do I buy them
>> > from
>> > Avery or Vans? Are the!
>> > re any other "should have" tools that will make life easier?
>> >
>> > Really looking forward to starting this new adventure!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Mogas / Avgas Trivia |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Tips on pumping gas.
I don't know what you guys are paying for gasoline.... but here in
California we are also paying higher, up to $3.50 per gallon. But my
line of work is in petroleum for about 31 years now, so here are some
tricks to get more of your money's worth for every gallon..
Here at the Kinder Morgan Pipeline where I work in San Jose, CA we
deliver about 4 million gallons in a 24-hour period thru the pipeline.
One day is diesel the next day is jet fuel, and gasoline, regular and
premium grades. We have 34-storage tanks here with a total capacity of
16,800,000 gallons.
Only buy or fill up your car or truck in the early morning when the
ground temperature is still cold. Remember that all service stations
have their storage tanks buried below ground. The colder the ground
the more dense the gasoline, when it gets warmer gasoline expands, so
buying in the afternoon or in the evening....your gallon is not exactly
a gallon. In the petroleum business, the specific gravity and the
temperature of the gasoline, diesel and jet fuel, ethanol and other
petroleum products plays an important role.
A 1-degree rise in temperature is a big deal for this business. But the
service stations do not have temperature compensation at the pumps.
When you're filling up do not squeeze the trigger of the nozzle to a
fast mode. If you look you will see that the trigger has three
(3)stages: low, middle, and high. In slow mode you should be pumping on
low speed, thereby minimizing the vapors that are created while you are
pumping. All hoses at the pump have a vapor return. If you are pumping
on the fast rate, some other liquid that goes to your tank becomes
vapor. Those vapors are being sucked up and back into the underground
storage tank so you're getting less worth for your money.
One of the most important tips is to fill up when your gas tank is HALF
FULL or HALF EMPTY. The reason for this is, the more gas you have in
your tank the less air occupying its empty space. Gasoline evaporates
faster than you can imagine. Gasoline storage tanks have an internal
floating roof. This roof serves as zero clearance between the gas and
the atmosphere, so it minimizes the evaporation. Unlike service
stations, here where I work, every truck that we load is temperature
compensated so that every gallon is actually the exact amount.
Another reminder, if there is a gasoline truck pumping into the storage
tanks when you stop to buy gas, DO NOT fill up--most likely the gasoline
is being stirred up as the gas is being delivered, and you might pick up
some of the dirt that normally settles on the bottom. Hope this will
help you get the most value for your money.
DO SHARE THESE TIPS WITH OTHERS!
WHERE TO BUY USA GAS, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO KNOW. READ ON
Gas rationing in the 80's worked even though we grumbled about it. It
might even be good for us! The Saudis are boycotting American goods. We
should return the favor.
An interesting thought is to boycott their GAS.
Every time you fill up the car, you can avoid putting more money into
the coffers of Saudi Arabia. Just buy from gas companies that don't
import their oil from the Saudis.
Nothing is more frustrating than the feeling that every time I fill-up
the tank, I am sending my money to people who are trying to kill me, my
family, and my friends.
I thought it might be interesting for you to know which oil companies
are the best to buy gas from and which major companies import Middle
Eastern oil.
These companies import Middle Eastern oil:
Shell........................... 205,742,000 barrels
Chevron/Texaco......... 144,332,000 barrels
Exxon/Mobil............... 130,082,000 barrels
Marathon/Speedway... 117,740,000 barrels
Amoco............................62,231,000 barrels
Citgo gas is from South America, from a Dictator who hates Americans. If
you do the math at $30/barrel, these imports amount to over $18 BILLION!
(oil is now $90 - $100 a barrel
Here are some large companies that do not import Middle Eastern oil:
Sunoco..................0 barrels
Conoco..................0 barrels
Sinclair..................0 barrels
BP/Phillips.............0 barrels
Hess......................0 barrels
ARC0.....................0 barrels
If you go to Sunoco.com , you will get a list of the station locations
near you.
All of this information is available from the Department of Energy and
each is required to state where they get their oil and how much they are
importing.
But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of gas
buyers. It's really simple to do.
Now, don't wimp out at this point.... keep reading and I'll explain how
simple it is to reach millions of people!!
I'm sending this note to about thirty people. If each of you send it
to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)...and those 300 send it to at
least
ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) .. and so on, by the time the message
reaches the sixth generation of people, we will have reached over THREE
MILLION consumers !!!!!!! If those three million get excited and pass
this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been
contacted!
If it goes one level further, you guessed it ..... THREE HUND RED
MILLION PEOPLE!!!
Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people. How long would all
that take?
I got my first hand experience with this gasoline distribution industry
in the Spring/Summer of 1973. It was the result of OPEC retaliation for
a US led Grain embargo action. We opened a series of Closed "Douglas"
Service Stations throughout Oregon to gain access to a Department of
Energy AVGAS restriction which for a short time became a total loss of
Avgas at the end of the Olympic Pipeline Distribution Chain. In those
days we had Red/Green/Blue and Yes - Purple Avgas. Our Oregon State
Governor enacted what became known historically as "Odd/Even" refueling
policy. Fortunately I had a friend who had a brother up the food
change at Continental Oil Company who made a phone call.
This post brings back memories and potential for the months ahead. AOPA
has just posted tips for conserving Avgas. Hope you find it of personal
value.
John Cox
#600
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com> |
| Subject: | Manifold pressure port |
Can anybody give me a hint as to where the hook up is for the manifold
pressure on a IO 540 E4 A5 engine? Looks like there should be a 1/4
nipple to connect the hose that goes to the sensor. I can't seem to
find the port in the overhaul manual.
Thanks in advance.
And to the gentleman getting the tools. Get the good springback dimple
dies. Worth their weight in gold.
Fred Williams
40515
In the "now where does this wire go? " part of finishing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Manifold pressure port |
| From: | "BPA" <BPA(at)bpaengines.com> |
Fred,
You can pull your MP from the #5 cylinder intake port. There should be a
gallery plug (1/8 pipe)right under the oil drain back fitting by the
rocker box cover.
Allen
BPE, Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred
Williams, M.D.
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:33 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Manifold pressure port
Can anybody give me a hint as to where the hook up is for the manifold
pressure on a IO 540 E4 A5 engine? Looks like there should be a 1/4
nipple to connect the hose that goes to the sensor. I can't seem to
find the port in the overhaul manual.
Thanks in advance.
And to the gentleman getting the tools. Get the good springback dimple
dies. Worth their weight in gold.
Fred Williams
40515
In the "now where does this wire go? " part of finishing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gerhardstein/Windance" <windance(at)rockisland.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mogas / Avgas Trivia |
Mogas / Avgas Triviawhy are you shouting at us. Font down for god's
sake.
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Cox
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:06 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Mogas / Avgas Trivia
Tips on pumping gas.
I don't know what you guys are paying for gasoline.... but here in
California we are also paying higher, up to $3.50 per gallon. But my
line of work is in petroleum for about 31 years now, so here are some
tricks to get more of your money's worth for every gallon..
Here at the Kinder Morgan Pipeline where I work in San Jose, CA we
deliver about 4 million gallons in a 24-hour period thru the pipeline.
One day is diesel the next day is jet fuel, and gasoline, regular and
premium grades. We have 34-storage tanks here with a total capacity of
16,800,000 gallons.
Only buy or fill up your car or truck in the early morning when the
ground temperature is still cold. Remember that all service stations
have their storage tanks buried below ground. The colder the ground
the more dense the gasoline, when it gets warmer gasoline expands, so
buying in the afternoon or in the evening....your gallon is not exactly
a gallon. In the petroleum business, the specific gravity and the
temperature of the gasoline, diesel and jet fuel, ethanol and other
petroleum products plays an important role.
A 1-degree rise in temperature is a big deal for this business. But
the service stations do not have temperature compensation at the pumps.
When you're filling up do not squeeze the trigger of the nozzle to a
fast mode. If you look you will see that the trigger has three
(3)stages: low, middle, and high. In slow mode you should be pumping on
low speed, thereby minimizing the vapors that are created while you are
pumping. All hoses at the pump have a vapor return. If you are pumping
on the fast rate, some other liquid that goes to your tank becomes
vapor. Those vapors are being sucked up and back into the underground
storage tank so you're getting less worth for your money.
One of the most important tips is to fill up when your gas tank is
HALF FULL or HALF EMPTY. The reason for this is, the more gas you have
in your tank the less air occupying its empty space. Gasoline evaporates
faster than you can imagine. Gasoline storage tanks have an internal
floating roof. This roof serves as zero clearance between the gas and
the atmosphere, so it minimizes the evaporation. Unlike service
stations, here where I work, every truck that we load is temperature
compensated so that every gallon is actually the exact amount.
Another reminder, if there is a gasoline truck pumping into the
storage tanks when you stop to buy gas, DO NOT fill up--most likely the
gasoline is being stirred up as the gas is being delivered, and you
might pick up some of the dirt that normally settles on the bottom.
Hope this will help you get the most value for your money.
DO SHARE THESE TIPS WITH OTHERS!
WHERE TO BUY USA GAS, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO KNOW. READ ON
Gas rationing in the 80's worked even though we grumbled about it. It
might even be good for us! The Saudis are boycotting American goods. We
should return the favor.
An interesting thought is to boycott their GAS.
Every time you fill up the car, you can avoid putting more money into
the coffers of Saudi Arabia. Just buy from gas companies that don't
import their oil from the Saudis.
Nothing is more frustrating than the feeling that every time I fill-up
the tank, I am sending my money to people who are trying to kill me, my
family, and my friends.
I thought it might be interesting for you to know which oil companies
are the best to buy gas from and which major companies import Middle
Eastern oil.
These companies import Middle Eastern oil:
Shell........................... 205,742,000 barrels
Chevron/Texaco......... 144,332,000 barrels
Exxon/Mobil............... 130,082,000 barrels
Marathon/Speedway... 117,740,000 barrels
Amoco............................62,231,000 barrels
Citgo gas is from South America, from a Dictator who hates Americans.
If you do the math at $30/barrel, these imports amount to over $18
BILLION! (oil is now $90 - $100 a barrel
Here are some large companies that do not import Middle Eastern oil:
Sunoco..................0 barrels
Conoco..................0 barrels
Sinclair..................0 barrels
BP/Phillips.............0 barrels
Hess......................0 barrels
ARC0.....................0 barrels
If you go to Sunoco.com , you will get a list of the station locations
near you.
All of this information is available from the Department of Energy and
each is required to state where they get their oil and how much they are
importing.
But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of gas
buyers. It's really simple to do.
Now, don't wimp out at this point.... keep reading and I'll explain
how simple it is to reach millions of people!!
I'm sending this note to about thirty people. If each of you send it
to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)...and those 300 send it to at
least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) .. and so on, by the time the
message reaches the sixth generation of people, we will have reached
over THREE MILLION consumers !!!!!!! If those three million get excited
and pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have
been contacted!
If it goes one level further, you guessed it ..... THREE HUND RED
MILLION PEOPLE!!!
Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people. How long would
all that take?
I got my first hand experience with this gasoline distribution
industry in the Spring/Summer of 1973. It was the result of OPEC
retaliation for a US led Grain embargo action. We opened a series of
Closed "Douglas" Service Stations throughout Oregon to gain access to a
Department of Energy AVGAS restriction which for a short time became a
total loss of Avgas at the end of the Olympic Pipeline Distribution
Chain. In those days we had Red/Green/Blue and Yes - Purple Avgas. Our
Oregon State Governor enacted what became known historically as
"Odd/Even" refueling policy. Fortunately I had a friend who had a
brother up the food change at Continental Oil Company who made a phone
call.
This post brings back memories and potential for the months ahead.
AOPA has just posted tips for conserving Avgas. Hope you find it of
personal value.
John Cox
#600
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Blatant commercial message - DRDT-2 for sale |
| From: | John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net> |
Marlys and I have a DRDT-2 dimpler that we really like. We're all
done dimpling large sheet metal pieces now, though, and are not
likely to build another airplane, so it's for sale.
This particular DRDT-2 was featured in the October 2006 issue of
Kitplanes. It's in fine condition - I'm not sure that one RV10 is
enough to break it in. :-)
Sale would include a carpeted support table per Paul's plans if you
want to pay the shipping rather than make one (it's bulky), and the
paperwork it came with (plans, instructions).
New price is $350 from Experimental Aero. Best acceptable offer by
April 1 takes it; I will sell immediately for $250.
You pay actual shipping cost including insurance; I box it up at my
cost and labor. $25 discount if you pick it up instead.
Payment via paypal, Cashier's check, money order , etc. Personal
check is OK, but I will wait to ship until it clears. I'm not set up
to take credit cards.
We're located in Prescott, AZ 86305. Phone is 928-759-9279. Email:
is johnag5b(at)cableone.net.
If you want a new DRDT-2, Paul Merems of Experimental Aero 12351 E.
Lou Bock Pl. Tucson, AZ 85749 stands out among a very good set of
RV-10 vendors for his helpfulness and the quality of his stuff. His
website is:
http://www.experimentalaero.com/DRDT-2.htm
and there's a good description of the dimpler there.
John Ackerman RV10 #40458
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Builder - Tools |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
Doug,
I went with the Avery Kit recommended for the RV-10. No regrets. With hindsight,
I could have saved by shopping around on certain items, but I didn't know I
needed them until Avery put them in the kit.
I got the 2x gun and it works fine. As an option, Avery suggested a keyless chuck
for the Sioux drill - I'm glad I got it. After squeezing a few rivets by hand,
you will love a pneumatic one. Definitely get the Longeron Yoke, although
"tall" squeezer heads are an alternative (look at Avery's Deluxe Set).
Stuff you won't find in the kits:
Clamps, clamps, clamps.
Grinder for the Scotchbrite wheel - do NOT use the stone wheels on aluminum.
A belt/disc sander - works great on aluminum.
My Craftsman table top drill press is a must - especially for countersinking those
long pieces.
A band saw is not essential but I wish I had gotten something better than a Ryobi
$99 special at Home Depot.
A good table mounted vise.
A Dremel kit is almost essential.
A pneumatic cleco gun is my favorite luxury.
Sorry for rambling,
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171561#171561
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
It's the engine monitor that reboots for me when I crank. So I needed to
add a second battery even though I have 2 alternators.
Gary
40274
DAR inspection scheduled
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Batteries
I agree!
I have the Advanced Flight Systems 3500EE and it works great during
cranking.
Any EFIS that will not function during cranking is not worth having. Thats
a required feature in my opinion.
Jim Combs
40192
===========================================================
From: "Dawson-Townsend,Timothy" <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero>
Date: 2008/03/21 Fri AM 08:03:37 EST
Subject: RV10-List: Batteries
Tim wrote: "Most EFIS systems won't stay running while you crank an
engine"
I say, any EFIS that's worth its salt will!
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
40025 Firewall Forward
tdt(at)aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Mogas / Avgas Trivia |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
The post was cut from another form which would not allow a font
reduction. Tried that! it is only one step better from years ago with
the fax of a fax of a fax method. YMMV. One excellent counter to the
post gave the urban legend version
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/household/gastips.asp
Because avgas fuel tanks are often "above ground level" and do not have
the same temperature/volume calibration equipment at all locales you
might refuel, I saw it only as thought provoking. Having to pump
hundreds of thousands of gallons of Mogas just to get the Avgas we
needed made for an interesting Summer and Fall of 1973. Whether you
chose to reject the information is fine with me. Many hedge funds are
driving the irrational spec market for $100+ per barrel crude prices.
If the next government would open and flood the distribution system for
a month at a time with strategic reserves. It could cut the legs out
from under the speculators. The feds latest policy to loan the Hedge
funds 3 billion just to speculate the price higher has me scratching my
head.
Travel on Easter Sunday has always been a refueling crap shoot. Drive
Safely.
John
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Gerhardstein/Windance
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Mogas / Avgas Trivia
why are you shouting at us. Font down for god's sake.
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Cox <mailto:johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:06 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Mogas / Avgas Trivia
Tips on pumping gas.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Blatant commercial message - DRDT-2 for sale |
| From: | John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com> |
I bought one of these and left it in the box for a few months, looking at it
and wondering why I foolishly spent money when I had a perfectly good
whack-a-mole painted a nice red sitting unobtrusively in the corner. Bruce
Breckenridge, building a -10 right next door to me, would come over and sit
in my comfy desk chair looking at it forlornly, especially when he was
beginning his wings. I usually just ignored him. Then one day I took it
out of the box and put it together. I used it on the elevator skins,
invited Bruce over to have a look and a trial run, and am sad to say that
the red one has not since left the corner. I've been in Buildus Interruptus
for over a year, but Bruce hasn't. He's almost done with his wings and has
reported that my DRDT-2 has performed quite well.
In short, buy John's, if you want to enjoy the riveting experience. You
won't look back. You might have to find out where yours has wandered off
to, if you have other builders in the area, but I'm afraid your lonely
little red one in the corner will remain there. That's how good these
things are. True, you can build a perfectly great plane without one, but,
why? Sharing is optional, but highly advisable.
John Jessen
40328
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Ackerman
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:57 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Blatant commercial message - DRDT-2 for sale
Marlys and I have a DRDT-2 dimpler that we really like. We're all done
dimpling large sheet metal pieces now, though, and are not likely to build
another airplane, so it's for sale.
This particular DRDT-2 was featured in the October 2006 issue of Kitplanes.
It's in fine condition - I'm not sure that one RV10 is enough to break it
in. :-)
Sale would include a carpeted support table per Paul's plans if you want to
pay the shipping rather than make one (it's bulky), and the paperwork it
came with (plans, instructions).
New price is $350 from Experimental Aero. Best acceptable offer by April 1
takes it; I will sell immediately for $250.
You pay actual shipping cost including insurance; I box it up at my cost and
labor. $25 discount if you pick it up instead.
Payment via paypal, Cashier's check, money order , etc. Personal check is
OK, but I will wait to ship until it clears. I'm not set up to take credit
cards.
We're located in Prescott, AZ 86305. Phone is 928-759-9279. Email: is
johnag5b(at)cableone.net.
If you want a new DRDT-2, Paul Merems of Experimental Aero 12351 E. Lou Bock
Pl. Tucson, AZ 85749 stands out among a very good set of RV-10 vendors for
his helpfulness and the quality of his stuff. His website is:
http://www.experimentalaero.com/DRDT-2.htm
and there's a good description of the dimpler there.
John Ackerman RV10 #40458
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net> |
Wow!
The DRDT-2 sold in less than a minute!
A new one is a great unit and terribly expensive; to quote a noted
authority: :-)
> ...If you want a new DRDT-2, Paul Merems of Experimental Aero 12351
> E. Lou Bock Pl. Tucson, AZ 85749 stands out among a very good set
> of RV-10 vendors for his helpfulness and the quality of his stuff.
> His website is:
> _http://www.experimentalaero.com/DRDT-2.htm_
> and there's a good description of the dimpler there.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Fwd: DRDT-2 sold - WHoops! |
I meant _NOT_ terribly expensive ($350)
Begin forwarded message:
> From: John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net>
> Date: March 21, 2008 2:12:09 PM MST
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: DRDT-2 sold
>
> Wow!
> The DRDT-2 sold in less than a minute!
> A new one is a great unit and terribly expensive; to quote a noted
> authority: :-)
>
>> ...If you want a new DRDT-2, Paul Merems of Experimental Aero
>> 12351 E. Lou Bock Pl. Tucson, AZ 85749 stands out among a very
>> good set of RV-10 vendors for his helpfulness and the quality of
>> his stuff. His website is:
>> _http://www.experimentalaero.com/DRDT-2.htm_
>> and there's a good description of the dimpler there.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net> |
FWIW, I have the same basic setup and do the same procedures (GRT EIS only
during start, then power everything else up). Works great and I have all
the info I need on the engine during and post start.
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 9:35 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Batteries
Jim are you just trying to start an EFIS war? :)
I made no provision for keeping my GRT Horizon 1 on line during cranking. I
knew it would not stay on line, and with other electronics I have on board,
I don't want it on line during cranking. I use the EIS for engine start,
and it works great. Here is my startup procedure.
Battery on line
Check EIS for warnings, make sure nothing unexpected is showing
Crank engine, monitoring EIS
With engine start, wait for oil pressure, check for alarms
Bring alternator on line
Start up GRT EFIS, A/P and other avionics
Wait a minute or so for EFIS and 430 to settle down, taxi and go.
Use paper checklist unit EFIS is on line. It was just yesterday that I got
the checklist loaded in the GRT, was using the BM lite. It was real nice to
have the parameters and data available in the check list.
I have been thinking about a second battery, but based on my mission
requirements just don't see a need.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Batteries
I agree!
I have the Advanced Flight Systems 3500EE and it works great during
cranking.
Any EFIS that will not function during cranking is not worth having. Thats
a required feature in my opinion.
Jim Combs
40192
===========================================================
From: "Dawson-Townsend,Timothy" <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero>
Date: 2008/03/21 Fri AM 08:03:37 EST
Subject: RV10-List: Batteries
Tim wrote: "Most EFIS systems won't stay running while you crank an
engine"
I say, any EFIS that's worth its salt will!
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
40025 Firewall Forward
tdt(at)aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Manifold pressure port |
Got it . Thanks.
Fred
BPA wrote:
>
> Fred,
>
> You can pull your MP from the #5 cylinder intake port. There should be a
> gallery plug (1/8 pipe)right under the oil drain back fitting by the
> rocker box cover.
>
> Allen
> BPE, Inc.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred
> Williams, M.D.
> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:33 PM
> To: RV 10
> Subject: RV10-List: Manifold pressure port
>
>
>
> Can anybody give me a hint as to where the hook up is for the manifold
> pressure on a IO 540 E4 A5 engine? Looks like there should be a 1/4
> nipple to connect the hose that goes to the sensor. I can't seem to
> find the port in the overhaul manual.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> And to the gentleman getting the tools. Get the good springback dimple
>
> dies. Worth their weight in gold.
>
> Fred Williams
> 40515
>
> In the "now where does this wire go? " part of finishing.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
| Subject: | A good day building.. |
Finally some real progress today. The upper fuselage/instrument panel is
now attached. I was concerned about the fit of the upper fuselage over
the instrument panel, there's quite a bit of stress around the upper
skin where it meets the fuselage side skins. However it went on very
nicely. We started the riveting process at the firewall and worked
aft, this really seemed to help ensure that the seam stayed tight as we
replaced each cleco with a rivet. Also, you can see the machined
arches I made to support the upper instrument panel ribs that had to be
cut to allow for the AFS EFISs. Attached also is the starting point
for our instrument panel. I'll be adding the details on these arched
support pieces to our web site soon.
Bob Newman 40176
TCW Technologies
www.tcwtech.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A good day building.. |
Looks great. Nice panel selection.
I don't remember what order it comes in the plans, but you might wish
you have put on the heater boxes and the scat tube connections inside
the forward tunnel before attaching the panel area. For the rest of
you out there, those scat tubes can be put on (and should be put on
IMHO) very early in the process, just get your brake lines in first.
no not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Mar 21, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Bob-tcw wrote:
> Finally some real progress today. The upper fuselage/instrument
> panel is now attached. I was concerned about the fit of the upper
> fuselage over the instrument panel, there's quite a bit of stress
> around the upper skin where it meets the fuselage side skins.
> However it went on very nicely. We started the riveting process at
> the firewall and worked aft, this really seemed to help ensure that
> the seam stayed tight as we replaced each cleco with a rivet.
> Also, you can see the machined arches I made to support the upper
> instrument panel ribs that had to be cut to allow for the AFS
> EFISs. Attached also is the starting point for our instrument
> panel. I'll be adding the details on these arched support pieces
> to our web site soon.
>
>
> Bob Newman 40176
> TCW Technologies
> www.tcwtech.com
>
>
> area.jpg>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | heated pitot to plastic tube connector |
Looked at archives and see questions on this but not the specific
adaptor I'll need for the heated pitot tube copper connector to the
plastic tubing I plan to use (instead of the aluminum).
anyone know what I need to make this connection happen?
Thanks!
Pascal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Thyssen <jump2(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Did you go with the rg25 battery?
Pat Thyssen
gary wrote:
It's the engine monitor that reboots for me when I crank. So I needed to
add a second battery even though I have 2 alternators.
Gary
40274
DAR inspection scheduled
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Batteries
I agree!
I have the Advanced Flight Systems 3500EE and it works great during
cranking.
Any EFIS that will not function during cranking is not worth having. Thats
a required feature in my opinion.
Jim Combs
40192
===========================================================
From: "Dawson-Townsend,Timothy"
Date: 2008/03/21 Fri AM 08:03:37 EST
Subject: RV10-List: Batteries
Tim wrote: "Most EFIS systems won't stay running while you crank an
engine"
I say, any EFIS that's worth its salt will!
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
40025 Firewall Forward
tdt(at)aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jim(at)CombsFive.Com> |
Not! No EFIS wars please.
I believe that most if not all of the EFIS technology available to us as experimental
aircraft manufacturers is without a doubt the single best thing from a
safety standpoint. We have systems that rival or surpass the best systems flying
commercially. With the availability of on screen weather, synthetic terrain,
moving map technology, audible alerts, highway in the sky to name just a few.
All of these contribute to safer flying. I don't think anyone should be
building in todays world without glass of some sort in the panel. Cost is not
an issue.
It's all very good!
Still working on getting my first flight in a RV. (Hopefully mid April with Alex
in Texas!) Wonder how that compares with a C-182? That has to got to be an
apples to oranges comparison.
Jim C
40192
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pressure problems |
Could somebody please explain why a coordinated turn would make any
difference here?
I once flew with a well regarded instructor in his personal Glasair,
(different airplane, David ) and got really tired of holding aileron
to compensate for unequal lateral weight distribution. His solution
was a steep turn toward the light wing. I did so just to avoid an
argument, but it predictably did no good. This looks like the same
idea to me.
No flame war intended, I'm just wondering what I'm missing...
John Ackerman 40458
>
> ...however it would still be possible to vent after a turn that
> immersed the
> internal tube end near the outboard edge. I have seen fuel venting
> in my
> Glastar in a moderate turn after takeoff with all tanks to the
> filler neck.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | heated pitot to plastic tube connector |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Tygon F4040-A Fuel and Lubricant tubing comes to mind. We use it on the
turbine engines near a fuel transfer point with extreme heat near the
exhaust stacks. Heat resistance is important but so is compatibility
with cleaning solvents and hydrocarbons. YMMV.
John
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 5:44 PM
Subject: RV10-List: heated pitot to plastic tube connector
Looked at archives and see questions on this but not the specific
adaptor I'll need for the heated pitot tube copper connector to the
plastic tubing I plan to use (instead of the aluminum).
anyone know what I need to make this connection happen?
Thanks!
Pascal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel pressure problems |
In the Glastar the main and aux vents tie together at the tip, in a bank the
full tanks immerse the vents and fill the lines with fuel except the
external air pressure in the vents prevented most of the flow overboard ( I
caught a glimpse of the vapor in the sunlight). In the same way a turn in
the 10 will immerse one of the internal vent openings in fuel and any
negative pressure caused by improperly cut external vent tubes would tend to
port that fuel overboard.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Ackerman
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel pressure problems
Could somebody please explain why a coordinated turn would make any
difference here?
I once flew with a well regarded instructor in his personal Glasair,
(different airplane, David ) and got really tired of holding aileron to
compensate for unequal lateral weight distribution. His solution was a steep
turn toward the light wing. I did so just to avoid an argument, but it
predictably did no good. This looks like the same idea to me.
No flame war intended, I'm just wondering what I'm missing...
John Ackerman 40458
...however it would still be possible to vent after a turn that immersed the
internal tube end near the outboard edge. I have seen fuel venting in my
Glastar in a moderate turn after takeoff with all tanks to the filler neck.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: heated pitot to plastic tube connector |
thanks John, what connector/connection/adaptor would I use to connect
the copper connector from the pitot tube to this tubing?
Thanks!
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Cox
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 7:00 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: heated pitot to plastic tube connector
Tygon F4040-A Fuel and Lubricant tubing comes to mind. We use it on
the turbine engines near a fuel transfer point with extreme heat near
the exhaust stacks. Heat resistance is important but so is
compatibility with cleaning solvents and hydrocarbons. YMMV.
John
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 5:44 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: heated pitot to plastic tube connector
Looked at archives and see questions on this but not the specific
adaptor I'll need for the heated pitot tube copper connector to the
plastic tubing I plan to use (instead of the aluminum).
anyone know what I need to make this connection happen?
Thanks!
Pascal
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net> |
I've recently had a bad experience that I thought I would share with you
so maybe you wont experience the same thing. Back in October of last
year I ordered 3 plane models of my plane to be made, long story why 3,
from Griffin Aerospace Models www.griffinaerospace.com and had to pay
for them up front, which I didn't mind doing. They told me that I should
hopefully have them by Xmas, which was what I wanted. Come Xmas time
they said there had been some delays because of XYZ but should be here
the end of Jan but if not for sure first week of Feb.
On the third week of Feb I e-mailed them asking what the hold up was on
the models. I also called and left them a voice mail with the same
question, they never answer their phone, I received no response back
from them. On march 9th I wrote them an e-mail, and called and left a
voice mail, saying that it had been 5 months since I ordered the models
and I needed them to respond and let me know when I could expect
delivery of the models and if they didn't respond I would have Master
Card reverse the charge for the models. I've never heard back from them
and I have now reversed the charges for the models. They never even
responded back to Master card on the reversing either.
I know that Tim had good luck, I think, with them but they definitely
are not on top of their game now. If anyone is considering ordering a
model of their plane I would suggest looking elsewhere other that
Griffin, based on my experience.
Has any of you had good luck with another model maker?
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> |
I ordered one from a dealer on Ebay, I think they are made in the Phillipea
ns. The models are made of wood and painted. The RV10 wingspan is about 11
inches and I only purchased it for painting reasons, to try out my paint sc
heme.
The order was filled and shipped within a few weeks and the model is of hig
h quality and was about $55. Unfortunely, my favorite one orderred is the C
anadian version of a C130. Detail and paint scheme are amazing and it was t
he same price. They have a vary large selection of aircraft and I recommend
them for doing business with.
John G. 409
From: wayne.e(at)grandecom.netTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RV10-List: R
V10 modelDate: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 06:36:59 -0500
I've recently had a bad experience that I thought I would share with you so
maybe you wont experience the same thing. Back in October of last year I o
rdered 3 plane models of my plane to be made, long story why 3, from Griffi
n Aerospace Models www.griffinaerospace.com and had to pay for them up fro
nt, which I didn't mind doing. They told me that I should hopefully have th
em by Xmas, which was what I wanted. Come Xmas time they said there had bee
n some delays because of XYZ but should be here the end of Jan but if not f
or sure first week of Feb.
On the third week of Feb I e-mailed them asking what the hold up was on the
models. I also called and left them a voice mail with the same question, t
hey never answer their phone, I received no response back from them. On mar
ch 9th I wrote them an e-mail, and called and left a voice mail, saying tha
t it had been 5 months since I ordered the models and I needed them to resp
ond and let me know when I could expect delivery of the models and if they
didn't respond I would have Master Card reverse the charge for the models.
I've never heard back from them and I have now reversed the charges for the
models. They never even responded back to Master card on the reversing eit
her.
I know that Tim had good luck, I think, with them but they definitely are n
ot on top of their game now. If anyone is considering ordering a model of t
heir plane I would suggest looking elsewhere other that Griffin, based on m
y experience.
Has any of you had good luck with another model maker?
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: heated pitot to plastic tube connector |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
Pascal,
What brand of heated pitot is it? Unless it's something unusual I'd think the adapters
from Safair1 would work fine. Once you're about 5 or 6 inches away from
the pitot, heat shouldn't be an issue. Scroll down this web page:
http://www.safeair1.com/index.htm
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171760#171760
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
No I went with two small ones like Tim Olson did.
Gary
40274
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Thyssen
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 9:46 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Batteries
Did you go with the rg25 battery?
Pat Thyssen
gary wrote:
It's the engine monitor that reboots for me when I crank. So I needed to
add a second battery even though I have 2 alternators.
Gary
40274
DAR inspection scheduled
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Batteries
I agree!
I have the Advanced Flight Systems 3500EE and it works great during
cranking.
Any EFIS that will not function during cranking is not
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
Just weighed N46007 and the result is 1630. arm was 109.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> |
Dave, nice job
would you add some details.
Wheel fairings
paint
interior
engine choice
prop choice
etc.
Also you should submit this info to the RV weight and balance database
<http://www.rvproject.com/wab/>
Larry
David McNeill wrote:
>
> Just weighed N46007 and the result is 1630. arm was 109.
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv10builder <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | N104BS First Flight |
After 3 years and 3 months of building, kit serial number 40308 flew at
08:48 in the morning on Saturday March 22nd as RV-10 N104BS. The flight
lasted 34 minutes with the only squawks being a audio problem resolved
by re-seating the audio panel and a non-reporting CHT probe. She may
not look pretty but flies great! I owe a special thanks to Dan Masys
(N104LD) for serving as my tireless technical counselor and flight
advisor. His help has been invaluable the entire project. Also thanks
to you Tim Olson for the information you supply to this community!
Brian Sutherland
#40308/ N104BS
Nashville, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
Wheel pants and fairings included, no paint yet but will weigh again after
paint (Matterhorn white Jetglo and Maroon trim.
Engine is IO540D4A5 from Vans, Hartzell blended prop
Seats are ultra leather on the astronaut couch green. Four point inertial
belts: two are back of the Boeing style and two are flight deck rotary
buckles.
Dual Chelton displays, SL30, G327, Digiflite VSGV (switch able between
Chelton, GRT or stand alone). GRT EIS 6000, PM6000 intercom. GRT Sport EFIS
with moving map for backup and the primary XM weather display.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: weight
Dave, nice job
would you add some details.
Wheel fairings
paint
interior
engine choice
prop choice
etc.
Also you should submit this info to the RV weight and balance database
<http://www.rvproject.com/wab/>
Larry
David McNeill wrote:
>
> Just weighed N46007 and the result is 1630. arm was 109.
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
Any thoughts as to the wide range of c.g.s shown on
<http://www.rvproject.com/wab/> and where yours came out?
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 8:07 PM, David McNeill wrote:
>
> Wheel pants and fairings included, no paint yet but will weigh again after
> paint (Matterhorn white Jetglo and Maroon trim.
>
> Engine is IO540D4A5 from Vans, Hartzell blended prop
>
> Seats are ultra leather on the astronaut couch green. Four point inertial
> belts: two are back of the Boeing style and two are flight deck rotary
> buckles.
>
> Dual Chelton displays, SL30, G327, Digiflite VSGV (switch able between
> Chelton, GRT or stand alone). GRT EIS 6000, PM6000 intercom. GRT Sport EFIS
> with moving map for backup and the primary XM weather display.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen
> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 3:02 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: weight
>
>
> Dave, nice job
> would you add some details.
> Wheel fairings
> paint
> interior
> engine choice
> prop choice
> etc.
>
> Also you should submit this info to the RV weight and balance database
> <http://www.rvproject.com/wab/>
>
> Larry
>
> David McNeill wrote:
> >
> > Just weighed N46007 and the result is 1630. arm was 109.
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> |
Home paint booth VH-ICY and my boy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <toaster73(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: heated pitot to plastic tube connector |
Pascal
Here is a setup I copied for my salvaged cessna heated probe. I just
have the total not the total and static as is shown. The nylon part I
used was PN 266N04X04 from spruce.
http://bmnellis.com/images/Wings/Dcp01628.jpg
Chris Lucas
#40072
----- Original Message -----
From: Pascal
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: heated pitot to plastic tube connector
thanks John, what connector/connection/adaptor would I use to connect
the copper connector from the pitot tube to this tubing?
Thanks!
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Cox
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 7:00 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: heated pitot to plastic tube connector
Tygon F4040-A Fuel and Lubricant tubing comes to mind. We use it on
the turbine engines near a fuel transfer point with extreme heat near
the exhaust stacks. Heat resistance is important but so is
compatibility with cleaning solvents and hydrocarbons. YMMV.
John
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 5:44 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: heated pitot to plastic tube connector
Looked at archives and see questions on this but not the specific
adaptor I'll need for the heated pitot tube copper connector to the
plastic tubing I plan to use (instead of the aluminum).
anyone know what I need to make this connection happen?
Thanks!
Pascal
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
The only explanation I have is that the front seats were aft; secondly some
are using different datum. I would expect that the empty weight and arm
would come out near the forward limit which is 107.84 to my understanding;
aft limit is 116.24 using the datum in the instructions; hence my empty arm
is 109.13. The forward seats are adjustable forward by at least six inches.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: weight
Any thoughts as to the wide range of c.g.s shown on
<http://www.rvproject.com/wab/> and where yours came out?
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 8:07 PM, David McNeill wrote:
>
> Wheel pants and fairings included, no paint yet but will weigh again
after
> paint (Matterhorn white Jetglo and Maroon trim.
>
> Engine is IO540D4A5 from Vans, Hartzell blended prop
>
> Seats are ultra leather on the astronaut couch green. Four point inertial
> belts: two are back of the Boeing style and two are flight deck rotary
> buckles.
>
> Dual Chelton displays, SL30, G327, Digiflite VSGV (switch able between
> Chelton, GRT or stand alone). GRT EIS 6000, PM6000 intercom. GRT Sport
EFIS
> with moving map for backup and the primary XM weather display.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen
> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 3:02 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: weight
>
>
> Dave, nice job
> would you add some details.
> Wheel fairings
> paint
> interior
> engine choice
> prop choice
> etc.
>
> Also you should submit this info to the RV weight and balance database
> <http://www.rvproject.com/wab/>
>
> Larry
>
> David McNeill wrote:
> >
> > Just weighed N46007 and the result is 1630. arm was 109.
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | N104BS First Flight |
Congrats.
Rene'
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rv10builder
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 4:31 PM
Subject: RV10-List: N104BS First Flight
After 3 years and 3 months of building, kit serial number 40308 flew at
08:48 in the morning on Saturday March 22nd as RV-10 N104BS. The flight
lasted 34 minutes with the only squawks being a audio problem resolved
by re-seating the audio panel and a non-reporting CHT probe. She may
not look pretty but flies great! I owe a special thanks to Dan Masys
(N104LD) for serving as my tireless technical counselor and flight
advisor. His help has been invaluable the entire project. Also thanks
to you Tim Olson for the information you supply to this community!
Brian Sutherland
#40308/ N104BS
Nashville, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bruce breckenridge" <bbreckenridge(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N104BS First Flight |
Right on! Most excellent!
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 7:39 PM, Rene wrote:
>
> Congrats.
>
> Rene'
> 801-721-6080
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rv10builder
> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 4:31 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: N104BS First Flight
>
> After 3 years and 3 months of building, kit serial number 40308 flew at
> 08:48 in the morning on Saturday March 22nd as RV-10 N104BS. The flight
> lasted 34 minutes with the only squawks being a audio problem resolved
> by re-seating the audio panel and a non-reporting CHT probe. She may
> not look pretty but flies great! I owe a special thanks to Dan Masys
> (N104LD) for serving as my tireless technical counselor and flight
> advisor. His help has been invaluable the entire project. Also thanks
> to you Tim Olson for the information you supply to this community!
>
> Brian Sutherland
> #40308/ N104BS
> Nashville, TN
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com> |
Way to go David!
Do you have any photos of your seatbelt arrangement? I have to make a
belt choice real soon.
Since you are at it a Panel shout would be cool too.
Robin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chase Snodgrass" <airplanedriver(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pressure problems |
Agreed. Yawing the airplane will send the fuel to the same side of the
tank as the ball. In a coordinated turn the fuel does not move
(much).
Chase Snodgrass
Presidio, TX
http://flybigbend.com
Simultaneous RV-10 twins early stage
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 8:53 PM, John Ackerman wrote:
> Could somebody please explain why a coordinated turn would make any
> difference here?
> I once flew with a well regarded instructor in his personal Glasair,
> (different airplane, David ) and got really tired of holding aileron to
> compensate for unequal lateral weight distribution. His solution was a steep
> turn toward the light wing. I did so just to avoid an argument, but it
> predictably did no good. This looks like the same idea to me.
> No flame war intended, I'm just wondering what I'm missing...
> John Ackerman 40458
>
>
> ...however it would still be possible to vent after a turn that immersed the
> internal tube end near the outboard edge. I have seen fuel venting in my
> Glastar in a moderate turn after takeoff with all tanks to the filler neck.
>
>
> RV10-List Email Forum -
> browse
> Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
> more:
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> Forums!
> http://forums.matronics.com
> - List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
Will send a couple of pics tomorrow, the computer that contains the current
ones is on its way to be repaired.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 8:54 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: weight
Way to go David!
Do you have any photos of your seatbelt arrangement? I have to make a
belt choice real soon.
Since you are at it a Panel shout would be cool too.
Robin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shawn Moon <moons1999(at)yahoo.com> |
Wayne,
I have had no personal experience with this place, but my wife tells me that
there is a place at Mecham that does them. One of the test pilots she works
with really likes their work and goes there often. I don't know what the name
of the place is, but it is next door to Air Source One pilot supplies. It's
off Main street in Fort Worth, right across from the airport. Nice thing about
them would be that you can walk in the front door and smack them around if
they don't deliver. :)
--Shawn
40366 - Wings
----- Original Message ----
From: Wayne Edgerton <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 6:36:59 AM
Subject: RV10-List: RV10 model
I've recently had a bad experience that I thought I would share with you so maybe you wont experience the same thing. Back in October of last year I ordered 3 plane models of my plane to be made, long story why 3, from Griffin Aerospace Models www.griffinaerospace.com and had to pay for them up front, which I didn't mind doing. They told me that I should hopefully have them by Xmas, which was what I wanted. Come Xmas time they said there had been some delays because of XYZ but should be here the end of Jan but if not for sure first week of Feb.
On the third week of Feb I e-mailed them
asking what the hold up was on the models. I also called and left them a
voice mail with the same question, they never answer their phone, I
received no response back from them. On march 9th I wrote them an e-mail, and
called and left a voice mail, saying that it had been 5 months since I ordered
the models and I needed them to respond and let me know when I could expect
delivery of the models and if they didn't respond I would have Master Card
reverse the charge for the models. I've never heard back from them and I have
now reversed the charges for the models. They never even responded back to
Master card on the reversing either.
I know that Tim had good luck, I think, with them
but they definitely are not on top of their game now. If anyone is considering
ordering a model of their plane I would suggest looking elsewhere other that
Griffin, based on my experience.
Has any of you had good luck with another model
maker?
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N104BS First Flight |
Congratulations Brian on your first flight. That's really a great
feeling after all that time banging away building. Now comes the part of
sorting everything out and learning all your systems. I've been flying
since June of last year and I'm still learning new things, so the
process doesn't stop with your first flight, but it gets a little more
fun with it.
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Builder - Tools |
| From: | "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net> |
Hey Doug,
The guys here have been very helpful, but from observation and my own experience,
they've neglected the very first "tool" ... these things apparently can NOT
be built without a digital camera!
Also, what would be really helpful would be a list of all the acronyms ... IMHO
(in my humble opinion). I still haven't figured out some of them! And as a
non-pilot, you wouldn't believe the headaches I get trying to decipher all the
avionics, mechanics, navigation, communication, etc. abbreviations. As with
any new body of knowledge, I'm just immersing myself in it and waiting for it
to "osmose".
This is a great resource, I check it every day.
Thanks to all.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
doors almost finished, pants on, WHEW!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171912#171912
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Builder - Tools |
Speaking of digital tools. A digital/electronic level and laser line. Got
mine at home depot.....
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 7:12 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: New Builder - Tools
Hey Doug,
The guys here have been very helpful, but from observation and my own
experience, they've neglected the very first "tool" ... these things
apparently can NOT be built without a digital camera!
Also, what would be really helpful would be a list of all the acronyms ...
IMHO (in my humble opinion). I still haven't figured out some of them! And
as a non-pilot, you wouldn't believe the headaches I get trying to decipher
all the avionics, mechanics, navigation, communication, etc. abbreviations.
As with any new body of knowledge, I'm just immersing myself in it and
waiting for it to "osmose".
This is a great resource, I check it every day.
Thanks to all.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
doors almost finished, pants on, WHEW!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171912#171912
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Builder - Tools |
| From: | "Lenny Iszak" <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com> |
Doug,
I picked up the coolest little tool a couple of days ago. I was deburring holes
with a larger drill bit, spinning it by hand. I got a slight carpal tunnel, and
my hand started to get numb very fast.
Went to Lowe's and picked up this Dremel Driver. It's small, fits in your hand,
the max rpm in 300, and the trigger is very controllable. You just have to use
a drill bit with a hex shank. Check out the attached picture.
Bought my toolkit from Isham (planetools) because it included the pneumatic squeezer
and the DRDT-2. I have this big grin on my face every time I use the dimpler
:)
I also picked up a hand squeezer from Avery. It's more accurate and has more control
than the pneumatic one.
I bought some little stuff from different suppliers and so far Avery has been the
fastest to ship my order.
This forum had been invaluable in researching the tools I needed. Thanks everyone!
--------
Regards,
Lenny
#40803
Rudder almost done
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171946#171946
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dremel_driver_100.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Standley" <taildragon(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Final Wing Attach Bolts |
=0AI am just about ready to final install the wings and was trying
the wing attach bolts. They sure are tight! The threaded portion just
fits but the unthreaded portion wants to bind. Is this the way it is s
upposed to be? =0A=0AWhat have others done? The instructions say
to use a little oil. So do I just oil them up and drive them in with
a wooden hammer?=0A=0ARoger=0A40291=0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Final Wing Attach Bolts |
Yes, they are very tight. Once you get couple in, it gets a little easier.
A trick my brother-in-law showed me was to just use the flat set on the
rivet gun to drive them in. Back the pressure of so that they are being
driven very slowly. You can put a thin piece of wood or other material
between the gun and the bolt to cushion the hits.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Standley
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:22 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Final Wing Attach Bolts
I am just about ready to final install the wings and was trying the wing
attach bolts. They sure are tight! The threaded portion just fits but the
unthreaded portion wants to bind. Is this the way it is supposed to be?
What have others done? The instructions say to use a little oil. So do I
just oil them up and drive them in with a wooden hammer?
Roger
40291
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | Heavy Wing and Trim |
Well, I have about 7 hours on the airplane and have sorted out the heavy
wing and elevator trim.
For the elevator time, it looks like it was just me, I was not expecting
that much nose down trim. I checked the rigging and I am now comfortable
with it. Over the next week or so, I will be adding weight, simulating
co-pilot and passengers and that will be the proof that it is right.
The heavy left wing had me a little concerned. I flew a couple of times and
re-rigged the ailerons. It seemed to be getting better, but not consistent.
So I started back to making sure everything was lined up. Measured angels
of wing tips, ailerons and flaps....oh flaps. My right flap was not all the
way up in the reflex position! I noted that I could pull up on it and it
came up into position..so I did that and went flying..problem fixed.
The root cause is that I was having some contact between the flap and
fuselage. So I got the file out and took a little more off the flap and got
it to more easily move in to position. Adjusted the linkage and it looks
like it is fixed. Flew fine yesterday. Got four hops in yesterday working
on the flaps and trim. Beautiful day in Utah, looks like another good one
today. I think I will finish up my work and head to the airport.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Emailing: IMG_0013 (2), IMG_0014 (2), IMG_0015 (2), IMG_0016 |
(2), IMG_0011 (2), IMG_0012 (2)
as requested by Robin Marks
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
IMG_0013 (2)
IMG_0014 (2)
IMG_0015 (2)
IMG_0016 (2)
IMG_0011 (2)
IMG_0012 (2)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Final Wing Attach Bolts |
Use lps2 or lps3 for lube, oil will be too thick. The hole is about .0015
larger than the bolt. Another possibility is freeze the bolts and install
when much colder than the spar. Just be sure that they are in as required as
they will have to be driven out if necessary.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 8:44 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Final Wing Attach Bolts
Yes, they are very tight. Once you get couple in, it gets a little easier.
A trick my brother-in-law showed me was to just use the flat set on the
rivet gun to drive them in. Back the pressure of so that they are being
driven very slowly. You can put a thin piece of wood or other material
between the gun and the bolt to cushion the hits.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Standley
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:22 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Final Wing Attach Bolts
I am just about ready to final install the wings and was trying the wing
attach bolts. They sure are tight! The threaded portion just fits but the
unthreaded portion wants to bind. Is this the way it is supposed to be?
What have others done? The instructions say to use a little oil. So do I
just oil them up and drive them in with a wooden hammer?
Roger
40291
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Final Wing Attach Bolts |
Yes they are tight, but I drove them in with a dead blow hammer and a block
of wood to prevent damage to the head. I think the key is Lubrication on
the shank and a big enough hammer and sufficient protection for the bolts.
Gary
40274
DAR inspection scheduled
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Standley
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:22 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Final Wing Attach Bolts
I am just about ready to final install the wings and was trying the wing
attach bolts. They sure are tight! The threaded portion just fits but the
unthreaded portion wants to bind. Is this the way it is supposed to be?
What have others done? The instructions say to use a little oil. So do I
just oil them up and drive them in with a wooden hammer?
Roger
40291
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Final Wing Attach Bolts |
One other thing: install the wing by pinning in place with two of the ACE
bolts then start the close tolerance stuff. Freezing should be very easy. I
have used that trick on other interference fit items. I did not think of it
for this but it will work fine.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 10:20 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Final Wing Attach Bolts
Use lps2 or lps3 for lube, oil will be too thick. The hole is about .0015
larger than the bolt. Another possibility is freeze the bolts and install
when much colder than the spar. Just be sure that they are in as required as
they will have to be driven out if necessary.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 8:44 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Final Wing Attach Bolts
Yes, they are very tight. Once you get couple in, it gets a little easier.
A trick my brother-in-law showed me was to just use the flat set on the
rivet gun to drive them in. Back the pressure of so that they are being
driven very slowly. You can put a thin piece of wood or other material
between the gun and the bolt to cushion the hits.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Standley
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:22 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Final Wing Attach Bolts
I am just about ready to final install the wings and was trying the wing
attach bolts. They sure are tight! The threaded portion just fits but the
unthreaded portion wants to bind. Is this the way it is supposed to be?
What have others done? The instructions say to use a little oil. So do I
just oil them up and drive them in with a wooden hammer?
Roger
40291
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davidbf(at)centurytel.net |
I have a flying 6 and am contemplating building a 10 but the only way I could
justify if to my wife is if I somehow had partners in ownership. I'm honestly
not comfortable with partnerships in anything but I suppose if its drawn up
right and everyone agrees I think it could work out for everyone. I would like
to keep my 6 but have a four place to use when desired. My question is if there
are any FAA legalities that would not allow this or a flying club of sorts with
an experimental or if there are insurance issues. Is anyone aware if this is a
go or no-go possibility?
Dave Ford
RV6 N516D
Cadillac, MI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
Log onto AOPA and look for their partnership agreement ...... and modify
as you and the partner see fit. Like you, I've never had a partner but
will start with the AOPA guidelines if I ever do.
Linn
davidbf(at)centurytel.net wrote:
>
>I have a flying 6 and am contemplating building a 10 but the only way I could
>justify if to my wife is if I somehow had partners in ownership. I'm honestly
>not comfortable with partnerships in anything but I suppose if its drawn up
>right and everyone agrees I think it could work out for everyone. I would like
>to keep my 6 but have a four place to use when desired. My question is if there
>are any FAA legalities that would not allow this or a flying club of sorts with
>an experimental or if there are insurance issues. Is anyone aware if this is
a
>go or no-go possibility?
>
>Dave Ford
>RV6 N516D
>Cadillac, MI
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Lenhardt" <av8or(at)cox.net> |
The only drawback is the partnership can not be "the builder." One
person will have to be listed in the FAA paperwork as the official
builder. That's the person who will have the liability too.
John Lenhardt
#40626
----- Original Message -----
From: davidbf(at)centurytel.net
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 3:10 PM
Subject: RV10-List: partners?
I have a flying 6 and am contemplating building a 10 but the only way
I could
justify if to my wife is if I somehow had partners in ownership. I'm
honestly
not comfortable with partnerships in anything but I suppose if its
drawn up
right and everyone agrees I think it could work out for everyone. I
would like
to keep my 6 but have a four place to use when desired. My question
is if there
are any FAA legalities that would not allow this or a flying club of
sorts with
an experimental or if there are insurance issues. Is anyone aware if
this is a
go or no-go possibility?
Dave Ford
RV6 N516D
Cadillac, MI
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mogas / Avgas Trivia |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
<http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/household/gastips.asp>
<http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/saudigas.asp>
fyi,
-Dj
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Nose Gear Axle Spacer |
| From: | "Dawson-Townsend,Timothy" <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero> |
For the folks who are flying:
How about an update on the nose gear axle spacers? Are installations
with the "new" aluminum spacers working well as designed, or are
supplemental measures to ensure the spacers can't rotate still
warranted?
Inquiring minds want to know . . .
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
40025 wiring up the engine . . .
tdt(at)aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Hertner <effectus(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Help With SolidWorks |
Hi Everyone,
Does anyone out there have experience with SolidWorks? I am stuck and I
need someone to walk me through.
I also need to know who came up with the tire change lifting chassis
that you lift with the floor jack.
Dave Hertner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug and Lynn Stone" <dlystone(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | N263DL First Flight |
You're all by yourself, sitting at the end of the runway, and for a
few seconds a flicker of doubt passes through your mind. Years have
passed since you first dreamed of this moment, and now it is time. One
last look at the gauges and in goes the throttle. Surely the rest of
your life will never be the same!!
N263DL took to the skies over Bentonville, Arkansas this morning and
I now know that feeling that drives the "RV grin". Still have lots of
finish work to do but this is one sweet flying machine. Thanks to all of
you who have spent many hours documenting your builds, especially Tim
Olson. You made my life so much easier.
Doug Stone
N263DL Flying
Builder #40263
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gerry Filby" <gerf(at)gerf.com> |
| Subject: | N263DL First Flight |
Sweet :)
Well done.
g
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug and Lynn
Stone
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 1:34 PM
Subject: RV10-List: N263DL First Flight
You're all by yourself, sitting at the end of the runway, and for a few
seconds a flicker of doubt passes through your mind. Years have passed
since you first dreamed of this moment, and now it is time. One last look
at the gauges and in goes the throttle. Surely the rest of your life will
never be the same!!
N263DL took to the skies over Bentonville, Arkansas this morning and I
now know that feeling that drives the "RV grin". Still have lots of finish
work to do but this is one sweet flying machine. Thanks to all of you who
have spent many hours documenting your builds, especially Tim Olson. You
made my life so much easier.
Doug Stone
N263DL Flying
Builder #40263
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N263DL First Flight |
How cool.
Congrats.
Dr Fred.
40515
still a "builder"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | N263DL First Flight |
| From: | "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Doug & Lynn -
Indeed, Congratulations and here is to your smooth and uneventfully safe
fly-off of your Phase One. I whole-heartedly endorse as well, your
thanks to Tim Olson who shared with Everyone the process, the review,
the decisions, the reasoning and the shear joy of flying the Best Model
RV ever conceived. You are all an inspiration to those of us who follow
and learn by your superior examples.
And Yes, the second generation of RV-10 builders is emerging. I look
forward to reports from Dan Benua, Ed Hayden, Rob Hickman, Deems Davis
and scores of others on the flight characteristics beyond their Phase
One approvals as well as those who are looking forward to the 2008 Safe
Flying Season.
John Cox
Builder N49CX
#40600
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug and Lynn
Stone
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 1:34 PM
Subject: RV10-List: N263DL First Flight
You're all by yourself, sitting at the end of the runway, and for a
few seconds a flicker of doubt passes through your mind. Years have
passed since you first dreamed of this moment, and now it is time. One
last look at the gauges and in goes the throttle. Surely the rest of
your life will never be the same!!
N263DL took to the skies over Bentonville, Arkansas this morning and
I now know that feeling that drives the "RV grin". Still have lots of
finish work to do but this is one sweet flying machine. Thanks to all of
you who have spent many hours documenting your builds, especially Tim
Olson. You made my life so much easier.
Doug Stone
N263DL Flying
Builder #40263
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Barnes" <rickbarnes(at)highlanddental.com> |
| Subject: | N104BS First Flight |
Congrats. I'll bet looking back 3 years and 3 months seems a lot shorter
time than we who are looking ahead 3years and 3 months.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rv10builder
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 4:31 PM
Subject: RV10-List: N104BS First Flight
After 3 years and 3 months of building, kit serial number 40308 flew at
08:48 in the morning on Saturday March 22nd as RV-10 N104BS. The flight
lasted 34 minutes with the only squawks being a audio problem resolved
by re-seating the audio panel and a non-reporting CHT probe. She may
not look pretty but flies great! I owe a special thanks to Dan Masys
(N104LD) for serving as my tireless technical counselor and flight
advisor. His help has been invaluable the entire project. Also thanks
to you Tim Olson for the information you supply to this community!
Brian Sutherland
#40308/ N104BS
Nashville, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> |
| Subject: | N263DL First Flight |
Congrats...I still have the smile on my face after three weeks..
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug and Lynn
Stone
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 2:34 PM
Subject: RV10-List: N263DL First Flight
You're all by yourself, sitting at the end of the runway, and for a few
seconds a flicker of doubt passes through your mind. Years have passed
since you first dreamed of this moment, and now it is time. One last look
at the gauges and in goes the throttle. Surely the rest of your life will
never be the same!!
N263DL took to the skies over Bentonville, Arkansas this morning and I
now know that feeling that drives the "RV grin". Still have lots of finish
work to do but this is one sweet flying machine. Thanks to all of you who
have spent many hours documenting your builds, especially Tim Olson. You
made my life so much easier.
Doug Stone
N263DL Flying
Builder #40263
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: counter sinking canopy holes |
| From: | "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net> |
Hey Eric(5) and Thane(6),
How about emailing me your email address so I can keep you posted, confirm address,
etc. We're still waiting for the seatbelts, so I may send the countersink
on to those who already have theirs, then get it back at the end of the line.
This "traveling tool" thing works so fast, we weren't ready for it so soon!
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
doors almost finished, pants on, WHEW!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172365#172365
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Byron Gillespie" <bgill1(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Help With SolidWorks |
Dave:
What type of help are you looking for? I have limited experience but
have several engineers that work for me that are pretty good - at least
in our area. You can contact me off list at bgill1'at'charter'dot'net.
Byron
N253RV assigned - maybe this year...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Hertner
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:02 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Help With SolidWorks
Hi Everyone,
Does anyone out there have experience with SolidWorks? I am stuck and I
need someone to walk me through.
I also need to know who came up with the tire change lifting chassis
that you lift with the floor jack.
Dave Hertner
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | axle extension group buy-revisited (rivethead aero product) |
| From: | "tomhanaway" <tomhanaway(at)comcast.net> |
Can anyone confirm that the Rivethead Aero axle extension product accomplishes
the same fix as was handled by Tim Olson's group buy last year.
See link:
http://www.rivethead-aero.com
P.S. I'm aware of the difficulty some have had with ordering but my luck's holding
so far.
TIA,
Tom H.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172370#172370
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: axle extension group buy-revisited (rivethead aero product) |
Tom, There is only one builder I'm aware of that if flying with these
(Rivethead) installed, and to the best of my knowledge he's had no
problems. He only monitors the list infrequently and isn't a
responder. I have a set installed,
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2048%20Gear%20Leg%20&%20Wheel%20Fairings/slides/DSC04681.html
because They eliminate the failure point between the nut and the
extender by machining both parts from a single billet. Additionally
the 'keeper' on the end helps keep the pant and the extender 'synched'.
from what I've gathered (mostly ad-hoc) those that have experienced
problems had been operating at least partly from strips where the
surface was 'uneven'. If that's a part of your plan, I would consider
these or something similar a 'must'.
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
tomhanaway wrote:
>
> Can anyone confirm that the Rivethead Aero axle extension product accomplishes
the same fix as was handled by Tim Olson's group buy last year.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Hertner <effectus(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: axle extension group buy-revisited (rivethead aero product) |
Tom,
I have carried on Tim's design and have the product available through
Mike at Cleaveland Tools. The price is competitive with the price
charged through the Tim's group buy.
Dave Hertner
tomhanaway wrote:
>
> Can anyone confirm that the Rivethead Aero axle extension product accomplishes
the same fix as was handled by Tim Olson's group buy last year.
>
> See link:
>
> http://www.rivethead-aero.com
>
> P.S. I'm aware of the difficulty some have had with ordering but my luck's holding
so far.
>
> TIA,
> Tom H.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172370#172370
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aaron Gleixner <aarongleixner(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Digiflight II autopilot wiring |
I am wiring my Digiflight IIVSGV in my RV-10 using the standard installation for
pitch and roll. In the wiring diagram, there is the option of installing a
jumper to reverse one of the servos, and the option to swap two wires to change
the direction of the other. For those who have already completed and tried
this installation, is the jumper and/or wire swap required for the standard RV-10
installation to get the proper servo direction? I would rather do this now,
rather than learn the hard way later.
Aaron
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Help With SolidWorks |
| From: | "geoff Combs" <g.combs58(at)yahoo.com> |
Dave give me a call at the office. We use solidworks everyday. Here is my # 614-834-5227.
Geoff
--------
Build QB RV-10 N829GW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172401#172401
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Digiflight II autopilot wiring |
With the pitch reverse jumper connected it works in the right
direction in all of the -10's I have worked on. I have never changed
the direction of the aileron servo either, mostly using Stein's
harness and a couple now from Approach Fast Stack. Either way, you
can check it on the ground before you ever take it up. Just activate
the autopilot and dial in a vertical speed and you will see the stick
more one way or the other. The same can be done for the roll servo by
dialing in a heading to the right or left of what it starts at.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Mar 24, 2008, at 7:45 PM, Aaron Gleixner wrote:
> I am wiring my Digiflight IIVSGV in my RV-10 using the standard
> installation for pitch and roll. In the wiring diagram, there is
> the option of installing a jumper to reverse one of the servos, and
> the option to swap two wires to change the direction of the other.
> For those who have already completed and tried this installation, is
> the jumper and/or wire swap required for the standard RV-10
> installation to get the proper servo direction? I would rather do
> this now, rather than learn the hard way later.
>
> Aaron
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Digiflight II autopilot wiring |
Install the pitch reverse loop with a colored wire and if the reverse is
needed snip the wire.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 7:21 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Digiflight II autopilot wiring
With the pitch reverse jumper connected it works in the right direction in
all of the -10's I have worked on. I have never changed the direction of
the aileron servo either, mostly using Stein's harness and a couple now from
Approach Fast Stack. Either way, you can check it on the ground before you
ever take it up. Just activate the autopilot and dial in a vertical speed
and you will see the stick more one way or the other. The same can be done
for the roll servo by dialing in a heading to the right or left of what it
starts at.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Mar 24, 2008, at 7:45 PM, Aaron Gleixner wrote:
I am wiring my Digiflight IIVSGV in my RV-10 using the standard installation
for pitch and roll. In the wiring diagram, there is the option of
installing a jumper to reverse one of the servos, and the option to swap two
wires to change the direction of the other. For those who have already
completed and tried this installation, is the jumper and/or wire swap
required for the standard RV-10 installation to get the proper servo
direction? I would rather do this now, rather than learn the hard way
later.
Aaron
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "sam(at)fr8dog.net" <sam.marlow(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Digiflight II autopilot wiring |
Mine worked on the first try, just as the schematic shows.
Sam
---- Aaron Gleixner wrote:
============
I am wiring my Digiflight IIVSGV in my RV-10 using the standard installation for
pitch and roll. In the wiring diagram, there is the option of installing a
jumper to reverse one of the servos, and the option to swap two wires to change
the direction of the other. For those who have already completed and tried
this installation, is the jumper and/or wire swap required for the standard RV-10
installation to get the proper servo direction? I would rather do this now,
rather than learn the hard way later.
Aaron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Hertner <effectus(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Help With SolidWorks |
Geoff,
Thanks for the quick reply but Byron Gillespie beat you to the punch. I
will keep you number handy so that I do not burden any one of my new
friends unduly. I appreciate the offer to help.
Dave
geoff Combs wrote:
>
> Dave give me a call at the office. We use solidworks everyday. Here is my # 614-834-5227.
>
> Geoff
>
> --------
> Build QB RV-10 N829GW
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172401#172401
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: axle extension group buy-revisited (rivethead aero product) |
Tom:
If you have difficulty getting one of the axle extensions let me know
. My friend who has a flying rv10 here in Paris broke his this last
two months. He flies off of a grass strip. I had my Dad make up two
sets and I have one extra if you need it. Could get it in the mail by
tomorrow. We used the design off of Tim's site.
http://myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20070118/index.html
Contact me via email.
Fred Williams
40515.
drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com
tomhanaway wrote:
>
> Can anyone confirm that the Rivethead Aero axle extension product accomplishes
the same fix as was handled by Tim Olson's group buy last year.
>
> See link:
>
> http://www.rivethead-aero.com
>
> P.S. I'm aware of the difficulty some have had with ordering but my luck's holding
so far.
>
> TIA,
> Tom H.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172370#172370
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Digiflight II autopilot wiring |
Jesse;
I decided to build my own AP harness. I bought the parts from Stein but
was wondering if you could tell me how long the harness is. I was
thinking 20 feet or so but I don't want to waste or be short.. If you
recall please let me know.
In Christ!
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: Jesse Saint
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Digiflight II autopilot wiring
With the pitch reverse jumper connected it works in the right
direction in all of the -10's I have worked on. I have never changed
the direction of the aileron servo either, mostly using Stein's harness
and a couple now from Approach Fast Stack. Either way, you can check it
on the ground before you ever take it up. Just activate the autopilot
and dial in a vertical speed and you will see the stick more one way or
the other. The same can be done for the roll servo by dialing in a
heading to the right or left of what it starts at.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Mar 24, 2008, at 7:45 PM, Aaron Gleixner wrote:
I am wiring my Digiflight IIVSGV in my RV-10 using the standard
installation for pitch and roll. In the wiring diagram, there is the
option of installing a jumper to reverse one of the servos, and the
option to swap two wires to change the direction of the other. For
those who have already completed and tried this installation, is the
jumper and/or wire swap required for the standard RV-10 installation to
get the proper servo direction? I would rather do this now, rather than
learn the hard way later.
Aaron
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | N104BS First Flight |
| From: | John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com> |
Brian,
What a thrill that must be! Congratulations! Good for you.
John J
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | N263DL First Flight |
| From: | John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com> |
Doug, what a great description! Congratulations.
John J.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug and Lynn
Stone
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 1:34 PM
Subject: RV10-List: N263DL First Flight
You're all by yourself, sitting at the end of the runway, and for a few
seconds a flicker of doubt passes through your mind. Years have passed
since you first dreamed of this moment, and now it is time. One last look
at the gauges and in goes the throttle. Surely the rest of your life will
never be the same!!
N263DL took to the skies over Bentonville, Arkansas this morning and I
now know that feeling that drives the "RV grin". Still have lots of finish
work to do but this is one sweet flying machine. Thanks to all of you who
have spent many hours documenting your builds, especially Tim Olson. You
made my life so much easier.
Doug Stone
N263DL Flying
Builder #40263
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | N263DL First Flight |
| From: | John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com> |
And congratulations to Tim James, even though I don't think he monitors the
list. Tim J has made some interesting "grass runway" mods. He's flying off
his hours now and should be flying it into the NW RV-10 Builders and Flyers
dinner now scheduled for the 10th of May at Rob Hickman's place.
So, besides Tim's, we should have Randy Debauw, Dan Benua, Bruce Radke and
Norm Rainey's flying RV-10's in attendance. Dick and Jerry VanGrunsven
might also fly in, so there could be as many as 6 flying on display at Rob's
airpark house. Rob's plane (close to being finished) and his new panel
toys, which many will see out at SnF, will be the static displays. For
those RV-10 builders in the great Pacific NW who are not on the invite list,
please contact me off line. This will be one of the best dinners yet. If
you want to fly your RV-10 in and do not happen to be in the NW, well, I
think we might be able to make room at the table. This event is mainly an
excuse to get everyone together for dinner and to meet and greet a couple
times a year, so it's more social than technical, but there's always
something to ooooh and awwww over.
Anyone got an updated count beyond the one at Van's? Both in terms of sales
and completes?
John J.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:26 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N263DL First Flight
Doug & Lynn -
Indeed, Congratulations and here is to your smooth and uneventfully safe
fly-off of your Phase One. I whole-heartedly endorse as well, your thanks
to Tim Olson who shared with Everyone the process, the review, the
decisions, the reasoning and the shear joy of flying the Best Model RV ever
conceived. You are all an inspiration to those of us who follow and learn
by your superior examples.
And Yes, the second generation of RV-10 builders is emerging. I look
forward to reports from Dan Benua, Ed Hayden, Rob Hickman, Deems Davis and
scores of others on the flight characteristics beyond their Phase One
approvals as well as those who are looking forward to the 2008 Safe Flying
Season.
John Cox
Builder N49CX
#40600
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug and Lynn
Stone
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 1:34 PM
Subject: RV10-List: N263DL First Flight
You're all by yourself, sitting at the end of the runway, and for a few
seconds a flicker of doubt passes through your mind. Years have passed
since you first dreamed of this moment, and now it is time. One last look
at the gauges and in goes the throttle. Surely the rest of your life will
never be the same!!
N263DL took to the skies over Bentonville, Arkansas this morning and I
now know that feeling that drives the "RV grin". Still have lots of finish
work to do but this is one sweet flying machine. Thanks to all of you who
have spent many hours documenting your builds, especially Tim Olson. You
made my life so much easier.
Doug Stone
N263DL Flying
Builder #40263
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Trimming cowl inlets |
Since the cowl is all fitted, the only thing left to do is trim the cowl inlets
to the 2" depth Vans specifies in the plans...now for the question. Does the
entire inlet get trimmed two inches from the front edge? The plans seem vague
and lean towards only the outer edge...which doesn't make sense. And while I have
everyone's undivided attention...I assume it is from the face of the inlet
they are telling us to measure back two inches? Rick Sked 40185
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ackerman <johnag5b(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: axle extension group buy-revisited (rivethead aero product) |
FWIW I bought the Rivethead set because I could not resist the
elegance, so I have a group buy set if anyone wants them...
John Ackerman
40458
On Mar 24, 2008, at 4:51 PM, tomhanaway wrote:
>
> Can anyone confirm that the Rivethead Aero axle extension product
> accomplishes the same fix as was handled by Tim Olson's group buy
> last year.
>
> See link:
>
> http://www.rivethead-aero.com
>
> P.S. I'm aware of the difficulty some have had with ordering but my
> luck's holding so far.
>
> TIA,
> Tom H.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172370#172370
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
Any rpm restrictions for the 80" prop and the IO540 D4A5?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Dunne" <acs(at)acspropeller.com.au> |
HARTZELL APPLICATION GUIDE
159
Non-HPI Spinner: VAN'S Non-HPI Governor:
Ref. Radius 30
Reverse Angle:
Low Pitch Angle: 13.5 +-0.2
Startlock Angle:
Feather/High Angle: 31.0 +-1.0
Cwt Angle:
VAN'S AIRCRAFT IDS No.: 2049 5/6/2005
Model: RV-10
Trade Name:
Modifier:
Engine: LYCOMING IO-540-D4A5
Propeller Model: HC-C2YR-1BFP Power: 260 HP @ 2700 RPM
Notes:
Prop Setup:
Aircraft T.C./STC: Experimental
Non-HPI Items:
Hartzell Approved Items:
Placard/Restr:
Prop Diameter: 80
Blade Model(s):
Date:
Propeller T.C.: P-920
Item Type Item Number Description Quantity Qty Per Comments
PROPELLER C2R00780 HC-C2YR-1BF/F8068/SM8 1 A/C
PROPELLER C2R00800 HC-C2YR-1BF/F8068D/SM8 1 A/C
PROPELLER C2R10800 HC-C2YR-1BFP/F8068D/SM8 1 A/C
BLADE F8068 BLADE UNIT, ALUMINUM [1,1,5] 2 Prop VIBE SURVEY ONLY
BLADE F8068D BLADE UNIT, ALUMINUM [6,1,5] 2 Prop
SPIN MTG KIT A-2476-8 SPINNER - MTG KIT 1 Prop
MTG BOLT/STUD A-2067 STUD, MOUNTING, 1/2-20 6 Prop
John 40315
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Wednesday, 26 March 2008 2:06 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Hartzel prop
Any rpm restrictions for the 80" prop and the IO540 D4A5?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Trimming cowl inlets |
I would wait with the trimming until you have your baffling in place. Then
trim to 2" or even less to make for a smooth transition with your baffle
ramp. It is not a hard dimension so keep trimming until you like the result
and can get your baffle material to lay flat.
Gary
40274
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:55 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Trimming cowl inlets
Since the cowl is all fitted, the only thing left to do is trim the cowl
inlets to the 2" depth Vans specifies in the plans...now for the question.
Does the entire inlet get trimmed two inches from the front edge? The plans
seem vague and lean towards only the outer edge...which doesn't make sense.
And while I have everyone's undivided attention...I assume it is from the
face of the inlet they are telling us to measure back two inches?
Rick Sked
40185
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trimming cowl inlets |
Thamks Gary,
Does that 2" remain pretty constant all the way arounfd the inside. It look
s like the area by the spinner needs to be deeper than 2".
Rick Sked
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 5:42:36 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Trimming cowl inlets
I would wait with the trimming until you have your baffling in place.=C2-
Then trim to 2=9D or even less to make for a smooth transition with
your baffle ramp.=C2- It is not a hard dimension so keep trimming until y
ou like the result and can get your baffle material to lay flat.
Gary
40274
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:55 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Trimming cowl inlets
Since the cowl is all fitted, the only thing left to do is trim the cowl in
lets to the 2" depth Vans specifies in the plans...now for the question. Do
es the entire inlet get trimmed two inches from the front edge? The plans s
eem vague and lean towards only the outer edge...which doesn't make sense.
And while I have everyone's undivided attention...I assume it is from the f
ace of the inlet they are telling us to measure back two inches? =C2- Ric
=========
====
=======================
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dawson-Townsend,Timothy" <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero> |
No nibbles on this question from the other day?
For the folks who are flying:
How about an update on the nose gear axle spacers? Are installations
with the "new" aluminum spacers working well as designed, or are
supplemental measures to ensure the spacers can't rotate still
warranted?
Inquiring minds want to know . . .
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
Aurora Flight Sciences
tdt(at)aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com> |
tdawson-townsend(at)auror wrote:
> No nibbles on this question from the other day?
They must all be snowed in and can't get the hanger doors open [Mr. Green]
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Fuselage SB
(N410GB reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172757#172757
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> |
Tim, I got the updated spacer and still had shimmy problems. I filed
a flat spot on the axel and installed two set screws on the spacers.
This helped a lot but I still experience shimmy. I learned on this
site to push the stick forward to stop the shimmy and it works for the
most part. You still go through some shimmy before you stop it.
My nose wheel is nice a tight without any slop. I cannot figure out
why I still experience some shimmy. I have done (at least I think)
everything that has been published. The set screws did make a
remarkable difference.
Rob.
On Mar 26, 2008, at 9:50 AM, Dawson-Townsend,Timothy wrote:
> No nibbles on this question from the other day?
>
> For the folks who are flying:
>
>
> How about an update on the nose gear axle spacers? Are installations
> with the "new" aluminum spacers working well as designed, or are
> supplemental measures to ensure the spacers can't rotate still
> warranted?
>
>
> Inquiring minds want to know . . .
>
>
> TDT
>
>
> Tim Dawson-Townsend
> Aurora Flight Sciences
> tdt(at)aurora.aero
> 617-500-4812 (office)
> 617-905-4800 (mobile)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Trimming cowl inlets |
Just make it look pretty. Mine varies all the way around.
Gary
40274
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Trimming cowl inlets
Thamks Gary,
Does that 2" remain pretty constant all the way arounfd the inside. It looks
like the area by the spinner needs to be deeper than 2".
Rick Sked
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 5:42:36 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Trimming cowl inlets
I would wait with the trimming until you have your baffling in place. Then
trim to 2" or even less to make for a smooth transition with your baffle
ramp. It is not a hard dimension so keep trimming until you like the result
and can get your baffle material to lay flat.
Gary
40274
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:55 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Trimming cowl inlets
Since the cowl is all fitted, the only thing left to do is trim the cowl
inlets to the 2" depth Vans specifies in the plans...now for the question.
Does the entire inlet get trimmed two inches from the front edge? The plans
seem vague and lean towards only the outer edge...which doesn't make sense.
And while I have everyone's undivided attention...I assume it is from the
face of the inlet they are telling us to measure back two inches?
Rick Sked
40185
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | Airwolf remote filter |
So I see a lot of discussions around the right angle adapter for the oil fi
lters but what about just remote mounting it? Any thoughts on that? Is th
ere enough room on the firewall to use the Airwolf remote mount to put it i
n a much more accessible location? I don't think there is a whole lot of p
rice difference between the 90 adapter and the Airwolf remote mount.
http://www.airwolf.com/Products/OilFilterKitsStandard/tabid/59/Default.aspx
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tgesele(at)optonline.net |
| Subject: | ECI Oil Filter Adapter With B&C SD-20 Alternator |
I'm attempting to install the B&C SD-20 Alternator on a Mattituck TMX IO-540 with
the ECI oil filter adapter that puts the filter at the 10 o'clock position.
Has anyone installed this combination and, if so, what was required to resolve
the interference issue?
Thanks,
Tom Gesele #40473 - FWF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
The axle rotation won't have anything to do with shimmy, defined as the
shopping cart wobble back and forth. Fix that by tightening the nut on
the nose gear tube. A 25-30 pound pull on the wheel axle (off the
ground of course) should make the nose gear shimmy free.
As for wheel hop ..... an up and down vibration ..... tire balance or an
out-of-round tire will cause that. Bearing preload is a contributing
factor ..... less than one rotation of the tire when spun by hand should
be good.
Now, a caveat here .... my info comes from adjusting my AA-1B which has
a similar castering nosegear. Should work for an RV-10.
Linn
Rob Kermanj wrote:
> Tim, I got the updated spacer and still had shimmy problems. I filed
> a flat spot on the axel and installed two set screws on the spacers.
> This helped a lot but I still experience shimmy. I learned on this
> site to push the stick forward to stop the shimmy and it works for the
> most part. You still go through some shimmy before you stop it.
>
> My nose wheel is nice a tight without any slop. I cannot figure out
> why I still experience some shimmy. I have done (at least I think)
> everything that has been published. The set screws did make a
> remarkable difference.
>
> Rob.
>
> On Mar 26, 2008, at 9:50 AM, Dawson-Townsend,Timothy wrote:
>
>> No nibbles on this question from the other day?
>>
>> For the folks who are flying:
>>
>>
>> How about an update on the nose gear axle spacers? Are installations
>> with the "new" aluminum spacers working well as designed, or are
>> supplemental measures to ensure the spacers can't rotate still
>> warranted?
>>
>>
>> Inquiring minds want to know . . .
>>
>>
>> TDT
>>
>>
>> Tim Dawson-Townsend
>> Aurora Flight Sciences
>> tdt(at)aurora.aero
>> 617-500-4812 (office)
>> 617-905-4800 (mobile)
>>
>>
>>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
>>style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Airwolf remote filter |
NAPA has a nice remote mounted filter adapter.
Linn
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> So I see a lot of discussions around the right angle adapter for the
> oil filters but what about just remote mounting it? Any thoughts on
> that? Is there enough room on the firewall to use the Airwolf remote
> mount to put it in a much more accessible location? I don't think
> there is a whole lot of price difference between the 90 adapter and
> the Airwolf remote mount.
>
>
>
> http://www.airwolf.com/Products/OilFilterKitsStandard/tabid/59/Default.aspx
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ECI Oil Filter Adapter With B&C SD-20 Alternator |
| From: | "bcondrey" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
I have the B&C angled oil filter adapter with the SD-20 and had to get a special
adapter for the SD-20 which moved it aft about 1/2-5/8". Bill at B&C can tell
you exactly what you need. As I recall it consisted of replacement studs for
March 16, 2008 - March 26, 2008
RV10-Archive.digest.vol-de